climatic changes,mean temperatures etc. This is our first year planting the seeds from Cissy and the plants are struggling along. I hope that in 4 or 5 yeears that they will produce more and become more hardy to our climate... and my hoeing :) Jim --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Canadian EarthCare Foundation (604) 769-5097 (1:353/295) @PATH: 353/295 211 210 250 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (31) Tue 26 Jul 94 20:47 By: Mark Mathis To: All Re: info ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.01 @MSGID: 1:124/7013 53d413d2 @PID: Message processed by GTag v1.05 just wanted to find people that use this message area --- FMail 0.96â * Origin: -=RabbitLand II=- Dallas 1-214-681-6393 (1:124/7013) @PATH: 124/7013 7028 1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (32) Thu 28 Jul 94 12:50 By: John Mudge To: All Re: Survival Homesteads ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:352/111 2e380c36 @PID: GED 2.41 ===================================================================== ======== * Forwarded by John Mudge (1:352/111) * Area : SURVIVAL_ORIENTED (Survnet: SURVIVAL_ORIENTED TOPICS) * From : John Mudge, 9:2500/0 (Thursday July 28 1994 12:06) * To : Dave Paxton * Subj : Survival Homesteads ===================================================================== ======== Hello Dave! Sunday July 24 1994, Dave Paxton writes to Larry Gowdy: LG>> What size homestead would you recommend for a secluded survival LG>> spot? I tend to think 40 acres is minimum for an area where you don't DP> This is a difficult question to answere. It mostly depends on what you DP> are expecting to happen. If you are expecting a monitary collapse then DP> 40 acres is a good size. If you DP> are expecting a massive civil upriseing 40 acres might be too much to DP> guard, 5 acres might be good. If you are expecting a military take over DP> or dictatorship then 1 acre could suffice and it should enclude DP> fortification and concealability. DP> I personally lean twords 5 acres. It is enough to etch our a living if DP> you have to and is easily handeled by One man or a small family. On the DP> one acre you can have a small, well fortified, easily concealed fall DP> back location, just in case you need it. LG>> have access to a river or national park on one side (I hate being boxed LG>> in), but with a river or lake or such on one side, it almost seems a LG>> waste to have more than maybe 10 to 20 acres. The little spot we have DP> A bordering lake or river could make it possible to live on an acre or DP> less. With a fair portion of you food comeing from the lake or river. LG>> right now is just 6 acres, about perfect for two people without much of LG>> anything better to do than sit around watching the weather roll by, but LG>> still a tad too small to get the number of trees planted we need. DP> I like the idea of haveing enough room for apple trees, peach trees, DP> pair trees, cherry trees, and plum trees. All of which are available in DP> miniture sizes if the land is tight. Rather than planting "grove style" DP> you can plant sporadicly on the property and intermingle speices with DP> the natural growth to the point that they are not noticeable to the DP> untrained eye from a distance. I think I have covered my theories with you before on this question, but I believe it was prior to Larry joining us. I believe that the amount of land a person needs varies significantly depending on the area of the country you are in. In Larry's area, the Texas Panhandle, the native vegetation consists of prickly pear cactus an isolated mesquite trees for the most part. Although a couple of rivers flow through that area, the water table is quite low and irrigation is a necessity. I would tend toward recommending 40 acres for a small family. In my area the land is extremely productive and for the most part has no agricultural chemical residue. 5 acres here is quite adequate. A good method of assessing land needs would be to determine the sustainable level of annual biomass production and insert that into a formula that took into account food and firewood needs...plus an initial amount needed for construction materials. I do not have any real numbers to suggest, but will post this in SUST_AG echo to see if someone can come up with such a formula. John Mudge -+- # Origin: -->point MUDGE bbs * V.32b * Shelton, WA USA<-- (9:2500/0) ===================================================================== ======== Hello All! Anyone have any comments, additions, real info, etc? Thanks! John Mudge --- FMail/386 0.98a * Origin: -->point MUDGE bbs * V.32b * Shelton, WA USA<-- (1:352/111) @PATH: 352/111 3 138/1 103 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (33) Sat 30 Jul 94 9:18 By: Paul Maser To: All Re: Arial Wells ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:213/830@fidonet.org 7f09fd08 Does anyone have any knowledge in the construction and efficiency of arial wells? I would appreciate all input. Thanks; Paul --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff097/x] * Origin: InterComm - 702-359-2666 - (1:213/830) @PATH: 213/830 213 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (34) Sat 30 Jul 94 18:50 By: Bob Batson To: Cissy Bowman Re: Tomato Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you know about the tomato problem known as GREYWALL? On practically all my tomatoes that I've harvested, the fleshy part of the fruit wall is pock-marked with clumps of greyish-white spots. I'm sure this what's called greywall, but I can find no reason or cure. --- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.54 * Origin: AUGKC Kansas City Is an Amiga Town! (1:280/322) @PATH: 280/322 1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (35) Sat 30 Jul 94 14:28 By: John Mudge To: Jim Dixon Re: Survival Homestead Issues ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:352/111 2e3ac609 @PID: GED 2.41 ===================================================================== ======== * Forwarded by John Mudge (1:352/111) * Area : SURVIVAL_ORIENTED (Survnet: SURVIVAL_ORIENTED TOPICS) * From : John Mudge, 9:2500/0 (Saturday July 30 1994 14:19) * To : Dave Paxton * Subj : Survival Homestead Issues ===================================================================== ======== Hello Dave! Thursday July 28 1994, Dave Paxton writes to Larry Gowdy: LG>> up with a year or so ago? Its supposed to be similar to a birch I LG>> believe, it'll grow around 10' or more a year, can be planted very LG>> close, and is disease resistant. I have info on it somewhere, but LG>> haven't heard of how its doing. DP> I haven't even heard about it. If you or John come up with any info let DP> us all know. 10' a year would make firewood a good crop. James River Paper Company has an experimental plantation of poplars that grow to full size in about 10 years. They are genetic clones. Their plantation is near Vancouver, WA. I will stop there next time through and get more info...including sources and prices. Also, MacMillan-Bloedel of British Columbia has farms of genetically cloned spruce trees as an experimental pulpwood crop. Jim Dixon at Canadian Earthcare Foundation may well have info on the subject. He maintains databases of environmental information and is interested in sustainable agriculture. John Mudge -+- # Origin: -->point MUDGE bbs * V.32b * Shelton, WA USA<-- (9:2500/0) ===================================================================== ======== Hello Jim! Can you provide further info? Or can anyone else? John Mudge --- FMail/386 0.98a * Origin: -->point MUDGE bbs * V.32b * Shelton, WA USA<-- (1:352/111) @PATH: 352/111 3 138/1 103 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (36) Thu 4 Aug 94 0:53 By: Rich Hwang To: Marlin Nissen Re: Ants and Spiders ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MN>Tom, please don't spray !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 MN>There's too much of that sh_t going on already. You and your household don' MN>really need the insecticides added to our daily pollution already.......