Subject: nightshades?

From: "Rafael Garcia" <[email-masked]>
Date: 21 Sep 1996 02:41:31 GMT

I know that some people, for some reason, avoid eating plants in the
nightshade family (tomato, potato, ...).  Can anyone expand on this?  Are
there religious or dietary reasons for this?  Is it practiced by a
particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.
-- 
Rafael Garcia
Cornell Food Safety Laboratory

---

From: Peter Rosa <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 23:20:24 -0400

> particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.

Isn't the deadly nightshare a poisonous mushroom?  Maybe it's that association that 
scares some people off.

---

From: [email-masked] (Nyani-Iisha Martin)
Date: 21 Sep 1996 11:02:46 GMT

Peter Rosa ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Rafael Garcia wrote:
: > 
: > I know that some people, for some reason, avoid eating plants in the
: > nightshade family (tomato, potato, ...).  Can anyone expand on this?

: Isn't the deadly nightshare a poisonous mushroom?  Maybe it's that association that 
: scares some people off.

Goodness, no, it's not a *mushroom*. (Mushrooms are about as closely
related to tomatoes as they are to a butterfly.) 

The original question? I theorize, off the top of my head, that, because
tomatoes, potatoes, nightshade, etc are in the same family, they share
certain proteins that plants from other families lack. Since these
proteins could be potential allergens, perhaps people allergic to one
plant avoid the others in the family?

Ny
--
____________________________________________________
Nyani-Iisha F. Martin   [email-masked]
"I'm sorry. I may marry you and father your children, 
but I'm not giving you my root password."
   ----Bill Duetschler, my SO

---

From: [email-masked] (Tara Rabumdier)
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 14:50:09 GMT

>particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.

The nightshade/potato family [Solanaceae] includes a number of members
having toxic constiteunts in various parts of the plants.  The family
includes the potato (solanine in green portions), tomato, and
Nicotiana tabacum (tobacco), containing the alkaloid nicotine.  Some
members are quite toxic (e.g. Solanum nigrum) while close relatives
aren't (garden huckleberry, Solanum intrusum).  Perhaps the people you
refer to err on the side of caution and avoid the whole lot.  Maybe
this practice became institutionalized in areas where the toxic and
nontoxic species grew side-by-side and were confused. 
	-Tara Rabumdier

---

From: [email-masked] (Arthur A. Simon Jr.)
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:11:18 GMT

I have run into two uses of the term nightshades:
.
The first refers to flowering plants of the Solanaceae (genus often
Solanum), which contain solanine,  atropine, belladonine, and 
other alkaloids. The true "deadly nightshade" is Atropa belladonna, 
 which contains bunches of atropine (see also, three fates of ancient
greece). Jimson or  Jamestown weed is another member of this group.
 Potatoes, eggplants and and tomatoes are also included, but are
 relatively non-toxic. Yes, solanine *has* been isolated from the
 photosynthetic portions of these plants, but, having said that, I
 admit to have eaten pickled green tomatoes most of my 57 years and 
am not a toxic waste dump (at least not in that sense).

The other use of the term "deadly nightshade" I have run into 
has been with reference to certain mushrooms of the genus
Amanita. I know certain members of this genus have been 
given sensational names like "deathcap" and "destroying
angel", but I have not confirmed any official recognition of
the term "deadly nightshade" re: mushrooms despite such
popular usage,

Hope this helps.

Art

=================

---

From: [email-masked] (David Friedman)
Date: 22 Sep 1996 17:16:18 GMT

With regard to the belief that some people didn't eat tomatoes because
they were related to nightshade.

1. So are eggplants, which have been eaten in the old world since at least
the 10th century (Middle East) and much longer in India.

2. My own conjecture is that this is another historical myth, like
overspiced rotten medieval meat. After all, most sixteenth or seventeenth
century potential eaters would have known very little about Linnaean
classifications. It seems more likely that some modern wrote "perhaps they
didn't eat it because" and it grew from there.  

3. Does anyone have any real historical evidence to refute this
conjecture? Can you point to something written in the 16th or 17th c. that
said "tomatoes are related to deadly nightshade, so you shouldn't eat
them?" Ditto potatoes?

David Friedman

-- 
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Barry Shein)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 02:38:05 GMT

My grandmother, who died at a bit over 100 back in 1991, seemed to
believe that at least raw tomatoes were not very good for a person.  I
don't think she quite thought they were poisonous, at least not in the
sense that you'd drop dead from them.

I remember one day sitting outside with my mother and grandmother and
some children (cousins or some such), and my mother had prepared a
typical summer plate with cucumbers and tomatoes etc. She was feeding
some to one of the small children and my grandmother got very
irritated (I'd say I'd seen her very irritated around twice in my life
and this was one of those times) and blurted out at my mother "If YOU
want to eat those tomatoes, FINE, but DON'T give them to the
CHILDREN!" I doubt she'd allow real harm to my mother (her daughter)
so I'd have to guess she just thought they made you mildly ill or
something, or that there was some non-zero chance they would make you
feel ill.

I was fairly startled and later asked my mother what *that* was all
about and my mother said something about how in the olden days people
didn't think you should eat tomatoes and apparently my grandmother
thought this still to be true.

So I guess I can personally attest to having known someone well who
believed tomatoes were if not poisonous certainly not edible.

I'm about 99.9% sure there was nothing as sophisticated going on here
as their being in the nightshade family etc. I doubt my grandmother
knew or cared what the "nightshade family" was, unless they moved in
next door in which case she'd no doubt go over and introduce herself.

I can't say anything about who might have given my grandmother the
idea that tomatoes were inedible or why (likely, her mother or
grandmother), other than it seemed, according to my mother, a not
uncommon belief among older people.

Is it possible that, through breeding, tomatoes have changed
significantly and, in fact, there was something more mundane to all
this. Like, 100 years ago if you ate tomatoes regularly you would
occasionally find yourself doubled over with a belly-ache or whatever
>from  an otherwise unidentifiable "bad" tomato?

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | [email-masked]          | http://www.std.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD

---

From: Roger Wilson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:54:59 +0000

Barry Shein <[email-masked]> wrote <in part>
>uncommon belief among older people.

When I was a child I got appendicitis and had to have my appendix
removed. The old folks all seemed to believe that fruit with lots of
seeds could cause this problem, especially in children. Tomatoes were
mentioned as a possible cause. Perhaps that is what your grandmother was
thinking about?
-- 
Roger Wilson - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  [email-masked]
Satterthwaites Ltd, Crosby L23 5RE  - - - - -   Bakers for 85 years
Tel: (44)+ (01) 51 924 3944            Fax: (44) + (01) 51 284 0096

---

From: "Meg Harris" <[email-masked]>
Date: 23 Sep 1996 16:39:03 GMT

I know that many people have a hard time digesting night shade vegetables
and therefore avoid eating them (especially eggplant).

Rafael Garcia <[email-masked]> wrote in article
<[email-masked]>...

---

From: [email-masked] (Rick Ellis)
Date: 23 Sep 1996 20:00:45 GMT

I suppose some of the people that won't eat plants in the 
nightshade family are smokers?

---

From: [email-masked] (Jack Campin)
Date: 21 Sep 1996 10:49:56 GMT

Reposting article removed by rogue canceller.

"Rafael Garcia" <[email-masked]> writes in a whole bunch of newsgroups:
> nightshade family (tomato, potato, ...).  Can anyone expand on this?
> Are there religious or dietary reasons for this?  Is it practiced by a

Medical reasons.  One of the commoner kinds of food intolerance is to the
nightshade family.  It hasn't been well enough investigated for anyone to
know what the offending chemicals are: the obvious guess would be that
these people are hypersensitive to traces of tropane alkaloids, but one of
the most common manifestations of this intolerance resembles rheumatoid
arthritis, and god knows how an anticholinergic could do that.

Followups to alt.support.food-allergies.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin                                             [email-masked]
T/L, 2 Haddington Place, Edinburgh EH7 4AE, Scotland       (+44) 131 556 5272 
---------------------  Save Scunthorpe from Censorship  ---------------------

---

From: [email-masked] (Madelin Holtkamp)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:24:12 +0100

> >> particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.

Macrobiotic eaters avoid all plants in the nightshade family because they
believe that all carry some toxins that are not good to ingest. 
Personally, I find that tomatoes and potatoes are fine for me, but
eggpland must be salted each time to extract the bitter liquid they
exude.  Everyone's constitution is individual, but most people do just
fine as long as they eat a wide variety of foods.

---

From: Mike Zauzig <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 01:13:51 -0400

Steve Andrews wrote:
> 
> It is my understanding that the leaves of the potato (and any green parts
> of the potato itself) are poisonous.

I remember reading that if the potato tuber was exposed above the soil,
that the skin became green and that this green part of the skin is
poisonous.

> As for tomatoes, apparantly at one time there was a widespread belief that
> tomatoes were poisonous. The story I heard, probably apochryphal, was that
> someone sat down on the steps of the courthouse in some town in NJ
> (Princeton?) and ate tomatoes proving they weren't poisonous.

I though it was Thomas Jefferson who taught Americans that tomatoes were
not poisonous.

---

From: Richard Mateles <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 07:37:50 -0500

> particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.

There are all sorts of reasons people don't eat certain foods, and 
science deals only with a small sub-set of the reasons.  I don't 
particularly like broccoli, but I doubt that there is a scientific reason 
why George Bush and I don't eat broccoli!

---

From: Sandra Leeson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:33:43 -0700

> particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.

I remember from the days when I worked in a natural food store that 
people who were following a macrobiotic diet avoided the "nightshade"
family, mostly potatoes, tomatoes and eggplant. I found the following
web page and quote on the matter.  Please note the quotation marks,
this in no way reflects my own opinion on the edibility of these plants
(I love 'em!).

Sandy
West Haven, CT

> http://www.macrobiotics.org/MacroDiet.html
> 
> "Nightshades
> 
> It is important when eating for optimal health to base your
>  diet on foods from your own climate, or one that is similar
>                                  to yours.
> 
> Therefore, if you live in the temperate zones, eating tropical fruits and
> vegetables results in imbalance.
> 
> The regular consumption of tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, and other
> solanaceous plants that originated in South America or other tropical regions
> of the world is believed to be a contributing factor in the loss of natural
> immunity in temperate climates and may lead to a wide range of sicknesses
> ranging from colds and flu to skin rashes and itches, loss of sexual vitality,
> polio, and others. Dr. Norman Childers, a professor of horticulture at Cook
> College in New Jersey who has worked with solanaceous plants all his life,
> reported that regular consumption of tomatoes, potatoes, and eggplants is a
> primary cause of arthritis. He noted that in arthritic patients symptoms of
> this potentially crippling disease go away usually in a period of several weeks
> to several months when they stop eating these foods.
> 
> Source: Norman Childers, The Nightshades and Health, N.J.: Horticulture Publications,
> 1977."

---

From: [email-masked] (Steve Andrews)
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 05:26:01 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>, "Rafael

> particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.

A couple of thoughts:

As for tomatoes, apparantly at one time there was a widespread belief that
tomatoes were poisonous. The story I heard, probably apochryphal, was that
someone sat down on the steps of the courthouse in some town in NJ
(Princeton?) and ate tomatoes proving they weren't poisonous. However, I
am given to understand that 15% or so of the general population is
allergic to tomatoes.

The botanical relationship to deadly nightshade may also put some people off.

-- 
People who don't govern themselves will be governed by scoundrels.

---

From: [email-masked] (Clifford Eng)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:17:51 -0400

Some years ago, I read in a book on wild edibles that Solanum nigrum
(deadly nightshade) is edible if cooked. the author had a recipe for pie. 
Aside from this tidbit I can¹t answer your question

---

From: N/V/S Fazakerley <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 08:22:05 BST

> Isn't the deadly nightshare a poisonous mushroom?  Maybe it's that

No, deadly nightshade is not a mushroom. It is a weed of the same family as
potato. The tomato is a different genus.

Vibeke

-- 
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Robin Chirico)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 03:15:27 GMT

>> particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.
There is a disease called LUPUS. It is a chronic illness affecting
mostly women. Causes arthritis and many other things. They do not know
the cause of LUPUS but know certain things set off flair-ups of the
illness. Nightshade vegies are one of these. Those with LUPUS
typically avoid these.

Migraines are another common development from nightshade vegies.

Robin

---

From: Sam Brungardt <[email-masked]>
Date: 23 Sep 1996 21:26:23 GMT

>nontoxic species grew side-by-side and were confused. 
Not all S. nigrum plants are toxic.

My grandparents are Germans who lived in Russia along the Volga River near 
Saratov.  The berries of a selected type of S. nigrum, known as 
Schwartzbeeren (literally, "black berries"), were a real delicacy among 
these German Russians, finding their way onto Kuchen and into a filled 
pasta known as Maultaschen.

They also brought seeds of this nightshade along to the United States as 
immigrants and the berries are still highly prized among the people of 
German Russian extraction who live in west-central Kansas (as well as by 
the birds that frequent their gardens).  The very seedy berries are sweet, 
yet acidic tasting, when ripe.  They're very easily sqashed so you sort of 
"tickle" them off the plant.  Picking them is a real act of love because 
they're pretty small and it takes a while to get enough for a meal.  
The Kansas Volga Germans still use Schwartzbeeren in Kuchen and 
Maultaschen as well as that great American dish, pie.  In fact, last year 
I edited a German Russian cookbook having a number of recipes using 
Schwartzbeeren.

I've also read that S. nigrum is sometimes consumed in Europe as a 
potherb.  These may be selections of S. nigrum that are lower in alkaloids 
than is typical of the species.  I've also seen a number of varieties of 
S. nigrum described in a Soviet book on vegetable varieties (sorry, but I 
couldn't make out anything about them except that they were S. nigrum).

---

From: [email-masked] (Jane Beckman)
Date: 25 Sep 1996 01:19:46 GMT

How come folks don't seem to get appendicitis as much, any
more?  I've wondered on this for a while.  What *really*
causes appendicitis?  I've always doubted it was eating too
many seeds, as was claimed by my mother's family.

--
  Jilara the Exile   [[email-masked]]
That's how freedom will end: not with a bang, but with a rustle of file
folders.  If you love any of your rights, defend all of them!
-Joe Chew, on the net

---

From: [email-masked] (Pollinator)
Date: 22 Sep 1996 11:29:06 -0400

>particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.

    Some years ago there was an idea among the organic/health food people
that plants of the nightshade family had a connection to arthritis.  I
believe this was thought to be only in people who had a susceptibility or
some kind of genetic predisposal to this reaction.

   I don't know what the evidence was to introduce the idea, nor have I
heard the idea propagated in recent years.  I believe J. I. Rodale, the
founder of Organic Gardening magazine,  was one of the advocates.

   When I hear of such things, I mentally set them aside with a dose of
skepticism, to await further evidence.

[email-masked]                                   Dave and Janice Green
Practical Pollination Home Page    
http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html  
PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC    29554

---

From: [email-masked] (Jane Beckman)
Date: 25 Sep 1996 01:27:00 GMT

Just like Franklin invented electricity.  ;-)

I've got a 1792 book that lists tomatos as among the minor (you 
know, in about the same ranking as watermelon) food products of 
the South, in the very new United States.  Someone had to have
been eating them.
--
  Jilara the Exile   [[email-masked]]
That's how freedom will end: not with a bang, but with a rustle of file
folders.  If you love any of your rights, defend all of them!
-Joe Chew, on the net

---

From: [email-masked](James D. Doles)
Date: 25 Sep 1996 04:18:10 GMT

>nightshade family (tomato, potato, ...).  Can anyone expand on this? 
Are
>particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.
One would think that someone in a food safety laboratory would know
that the tomato, potato, and I believe the tomatillo (a variety of
tomato) are not poisonous, but that many other members of the
nightshade family of plants are (including some closely related to the
tomato). Jimson weed and Jerusalem-cherry (looks loke a small tomato)
are extremely poisonous.

Regards - Jim Doles

---

From: [email-masked] (Miche)
Date: 25 Sep 1996 03:50:26 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>

> particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.

Some people who are allergic to one member of the nightshade family (eg
tomatoes) find that they are sensitive to other members of the family
so choose to avoid them all to lessen the risk of a reaction.

Miche

------------
Michelle Campbell     <*>
[email-masked]
What I post is my opinion only.    
In order to achieve balance, first you need two sides.

---

From: Mary Elizabeth <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:13:37 -0400

> many seeds, as was claimed by my mother's family.

The seed business was one I heard as a child, too, although for some
reason it was just grape seeds that were cautioned against.  I'd heard
that there was some possible connection, in that the appendix does
perform some filtering of roughage in certain animals such as rabbits.  

I don't know that people get appendicitis less often now, but it seems
that their cases are probably diagnosed more carefully.  The fear of
peritonitis before antibiotics might have led to appendectomies that
might not be performed these days.  Also, I believe that a sort of
"chronic appendicitis" is now accepted; that is, some people get attacks
that don't worsen and necessitate surgery but go away on their own.
Presumably a doctor would monitor for the right symptoms.  My husband
has not had a recurrence of an old stomach problem since he had his
appendix out several years ago, & his doctor agreed that what he had
thought for years was a milk allergy or something like that might very
well have been chronic appendicitis.

Another odd thing:  while my husband was waiting in the ER, the nurses
remarked on the number of cases of appendicitis they'd had that week.  I
asked whether it was seasonal, and they replied, "Well, the doctors
scoff at us, but we always see an upswing in summer, and hot weather in
general."  This was August.  I had my appendix out 35 years ago, in
July.  Just an interesting little bit of information.

MEB

---

From: Shez <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:52:48 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, Mike Zauzig
<[email-masked]> writes
>I though it was Thomas Jefferson who taught Americans that tomatoes were

Strange, long ago the tomato was known as the love plant, or the fruit
of Aprodite. and it was used as an aprodisiac. But all you men who are
thinking about rushing out and buying 101b tomatoes, Sorry the amount
needed to have any effect, would probably kill you , long before you got
to the fun part.
-- 
Shez                                      [email-masked]
The 'Old Craft' lady               http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/
------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [email-masked] (Jack Campin)
Date: 25 Sep 1996 10:11:03 GMT

> (deadly nightshade) is edible if cooked. the author had a recipe for pie. 

Sure you don't mean *late* author?  Atropine was heat-stable last I heard.

Some of the variability in folklore around this stuff may be due to the fact
that different strains vary a lot in atropine content, and people vary a lot
in their sensitivity to the drug (lethal dose can vary by a factor of 100 or
so).

---------------------  Save Scunthorpe from Censorship  ---------------------

---

From: [email-masked] (Robert Buxbaum)
Date: 25 Sep 1996 14:11:08 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
[email-masked] (Madelin Holtkamp) wrote:

>exude.  

Try the long skinny Asian eggplants.  They're a staple in the NYC
Chinatown  markets, but I'm beginning to see them elsewhere.

-- 
    You can find more of my opinionated views on food, 
    wine, travel and dining in France and New York at
          ***   <http://www.bway.net/~bux>   ***

---

From: [email-masked] (Tara Banfield)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:29:24 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, 
[email-masked] says...
>The botanical relationship to deadly nightshade may also put some people off.

I stayed with some people once; one of the family members had been quite an 
athlete in college and had taken anti-inflammatory medications which triggered 
an "allergic" response to nightshades (pain, inflammation).  He is totally 
unable to eat peppers, tomatoes, etc.  I learned how to make some really 
creative pizza while I was there!

-Tara

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:44:41 -0500

FYI - Peppers (all members of the Capsicums) are in the nightshade family.

Re: Macrobiotics.  I never quite understood the premise here:  one bases
one's diet on foods available in the region where you live?  Look, I've no
desire to demean anyone's diet but, jeez!, this certainly has always sounded
to me like a "one size fits all" approach.  For instance, I live in the
Northeast.
But my mother is Italian.  Now, am I going to place greater stock in the
potential importance to my longevity of the often-touted "Mediterranean Diet"
or of limiting my diet to foods indiginous to a temperate zone?  Uhhh ... folks,
pass the olive oil, tomato sauce and red wine.

Peter

---

From: [email-masked] (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Date: 26 Sep 1996 00:02:49 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>,

>tomato). Jimson weed and Jerusalem-cherry (looks loke a small tomato)

I think you have misread the question, as, I think have most people
who have responded. I read the question as, approximately, "Who are
the people who avoid foods from the family? Further, in view of their
general innocuous nature, what is the basis for the avoidance?"

Rafael Garcia posts on sci.bio.food-science. Based on the posts I have
read from him, I would be stunned if he did not already know most of
the technical stuff.

Still, that has been informative for others. I've discovered a thing
or two along the way.

- Shankar         line fodder follows

---

From: [email-masked] (Jack Campin)
Date: 26 Sep 1996 01:36:56 GMT

[email-masked](James D. Doles) writes:
> tomato) are not poisonous, but that many other members of the nightshade
> family of plants are (including some closely related to the tomato).

He was asking a sociological question, not a toxicological one.  Who the
people who don't eat nightshades are and why they don't, not whether they
would in fact be harmed by doing so.  I suggested one class of people who
fit the bill: people with food intolerances, particularly when arthritis
is one of their problems.  But reading between the lines of some of the
other postings in this thread, it seems there are others who have read some
cult health book and decided, in the absence of any overt symptomatology,
that tomatoes are Bad For Them.  This is where it starts to get interesting
as history (I'm reading this in rec.food.historic): how do such ideas arise,
get garbled, recycled, and transmitted by print, healthfood store advice,
and word of mouth among peers?  What makes some such ideas last and others
not? - truth is *not* a very relevant factor.  This is the stock-in-trade
of the urban folklorist.

---------------------  Save Scunthorpe from Censorship  ---------------------

---

From: [email-masked] (OzCaity)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:24:22 GMT

>particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.
I have been told repeatedly that I should avoid any of the foods in
this family (potatoes, tomatoes, etc) as it will worsen my arthritis.
Many people devoutly believe this; my rheumatologist is of the opinion
that avoiding them can't hurt but may not help either.  I'm surpised
the arthritis connection hasn't already been mentioned... but then, my
server is not playing....
Caity in Canberra, Australia
off to read another cookbook.....

---

From: [email-masked] (Jay Mann)
Date: 26 Sep 1996 21:08:36 GMT

Jack Campin ([email-masked]) wrote:
: 
: [email-masked] (Clifford Eng) writes:
: > Some years ago, I read in a book on wild edibles that Solanum nigrum
: > (deadly nightshade) is edible if cooked. the author had a recipe for pie. 

 Solanum nigrum is black nightshade, a relatively harmless fruit.  I've 
worked with Solanum laciniatum and Solanum aviculare, which have toxic 
glycoalkaloids in unripe fruit, but which were used by settlers to make 
bland but harmless jams with when fully ripe.  I'm also pretty certain 
that green tomatoes are quite high in tomatine, another glycoalkaloid.  
Potatoes contain solanine-based alkaloids, which are chemically similar 
to the tomato chemicals.  All are, I believe, mild inhibitors of choline 
esterase, that is, they act like nerve gases.  One lady who 
professionally investigates potato alkaloids reported that a 
high-alkaloid strain of potatoes gave a back-of-the-throat bitterness, 
followed by a violent headache the next day.  But she forced herself to 
eat more of these potatoes than anyone else would.

Everyone who includes potatoes in their diet has, I've read, detectable 
levels of solanine in their blood.  About ten years ago there was a 
read-me-and-shiver book on the purported risks of eating solanaceous 
plants (tomatoes, eggplants, and potatoes) for certain people.  I suspect 
this book is the source of the current fears about tomato eating.

Someone in this thread suggested that modern cultivars have been bred for 
lower toxin levels.  That's probably quite true; certainly modern 
eggplants usually don't need the salt extraction method to remove 
bitterness.  (Personally I still use salt pretreatment because the bitter 
fruits are visually indistinguishable from non-bitter ones.)  There was 
great resistance even to the consumption of potatoes when they were first 
introduced to Europe, and it took considerable effort by Count Rumford to 
popularise them.

Jay D Mann  <[email-masked]>
Christchurch, New Zealand

---

From: [email-masked] (Susan C. Mitchell)
Date: 27 Sep 1996 04:45:19 GMT

Sandra Leeson ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Rafael Garcia wrote:
: > 
: > I know that some people, for some reason, avoid eating plants in the
: > nightshade family (tomato, potato, ...).  Can anyone expand on this?  Are
: > there religious or dietary reasons for this?  Is it practiced by a
: > particular group of people?  Any info would be very helpful.
: > --
: > Rafael Garcia
: > Cornell Food Safety Laboratory

: I remember from the days when I worked in a natural food store that 
: people who were following a macrobiotic diet avoided the "nightshade"
: family, mostly potatoes, tomatoes and eggplant. I found the following
: web page and quote on the matter.  Please note the quotation marks,
: this in no way reflects my own opinion on the edibility of these plants
: (I love 'em!).

: Sandy
: West Haven, CT

: > http://www.macrobiotics.org/MacroDiet.html
: > 
: > "Nightshades
: > 
: > It is important when eating for optimal health to base your
: >  diet on foods from your own climate, or one that is similar
: >                                  to yours.
: > 
: > Therefore, if you live in the temperate zones, eating tropical fruits and
: > vegetables results in imbalance.
: > 
: > The regular consumption of tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, and other
: > solanaceous plants that originated in South America or other tropical regions
: > of the world is believed to be a contributing factor in the loss of natural
: > immunity in temperate climates and may lead to a wide range of sicknesses
: > ranging from colds and flu to skin rashes and itches, loss of sexual vitality,
: > polio, and others. Dr. Norman Childers, a professor of horticulture at Cook
: > College in New Jersey who has worked with solanaceous plants all his life,
: > reported that regular consumption of tomatoes, potatoes, and eggplants is a
: > primary cause of arthritis. He noted that in arthritic patients symptoms of
: > this potentially crippling disease go away usually in a period of several weeks
: > to several months when they stop eating these foods.
: > 
: > Source: Norman Childers, The Nightshades and Health, N.J.: Horticulture Publications,
: > 1977."

FWIW, "Morgan's Tarot" (not a true Tarot, actually) includes a card 
called "Tomato, Potato, Eggplant";  the illustration is of two potatoes, 
an eggplant, several tomatoes, and a spider.  The description of the card 
in the enclosed booklet reads:  "Macrobiotic doctrine says that these 
vegetables are extremely yin, almost to the point of being poisonous.  
However, to most people tomatoes, potatoes and eggplants mean nourishment 
or practical considerations involving food."

It should perhaps be borne in mind that the ultimate "goal" of the 
macrobiotic diet is to live entirely on brown rice and water.

Think globally, act locally.
     Susan

--
===========  Susan C. Mitchell  ===========  [email-masked]  ===========
"Gadfly is what they call you when you are no longer  |  Seditious libel 
dangerous.  I much prefer troublemaker, malcontent,   |   for fun and
desperado."  -- Harlan Ellison                        |     profit

---

From: Peter Rosa <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:22:26 -0400

> potato. The tomato is a different genus.
Whoops!  I guess I really called it wrong on the nightshade :-)  Anyway, thanks for 
setting me straight.

---

From: [email-masked] (Miche)
Date: 27 Sep 1996 04:54:16 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>
[email-masked] (Jay Mann) writes:

>   There was 

Frederick the Great of Prussia had to force peasants to eat them at
gunpoint.

Miche

------------
Michelle Campbell     <*>

---

From: [email-masked] (Jack Campin)
Date: 27 Sep 1996 01:13:09 GMT

[email-masked] (Jay Mann) writes:
[ on the alkaloids in nightshades ]
> All are, I believe, mild inhibitors of choline esterase, that is, they
> act like nerve gases.

They aren't cholinesterase inhibitors, but anticholinergics: they have the
opposite effect, blocking acetylcholine-based nerve transmission, whereas
nerve gases bind to enzymes that recycle acetylcholine so that it builds
up to uncontrolled levels and sets your cholinergic nerves firing all at
once.  Atropine and related anticholinergic drugs are used as antidotes to
nerve gas.

If you could eat about a hundred pounds of green potatoes an hour or so
before a nerve gas attack, it might even help protect you.  You never know
when that tip could come in handy.

---------------------  Save Scunthorpe from Censorship  ---------------------

---

From: [email-masked] (Jack Campin)
Date: 3 Oct 1996 10:53:56 GMT

Jane Robinson <[email-masked]> writes:
> Whew!  I gotta tell you folks, I know more about deadly nighshades than
> I ever dreamed possible--and now am mortally terrified to feed my family
> any of the bag of potatoes I bought last week.

Deadly nightshade is only one species of nightshade, most of which are
totally innocuous to almost everyone.  Try reading more carefully.

> So much for Mother Nature and the Good Earth etc.  I'm more concerned
> these days with the possible bacteria and germs coming in from our
> neighbors to the south of us on the vegetables and fruit they're shipping.

Yeah, can't let those filthy spics poison America with their germs...

(Many of those "neighbors to the south" would be happy to get to eat *any*
of the fruit and vegetables currently being shipped out of their countries
by transnational corporations to feed xenophobes like you).

> What do you know about a good Clorox soaking  (properly diluted, of course)
> for all those things with edible skins (i.e.grapes, tomatoes, lettuce,
> celery, etc.) that we eat raw?

Chlorine reacts with pretty much all organic molecules to produce all kinds
of substances with totally unknown toxicological properties.  If you want to
poison yourself this way, feel free, that's one less racist scumbag less.

> Any suggestions on home-style protection?  I'm no chemist, but I've
> become a soapy-scrubber in the kitchen---what with contaminated chicken,
> aflatoxin (sp?) in the peanutbutter, etc.

Peanut butter does not contain aflatoxin.  This kind of contamination is now
a solved problem in the US, since it has the combination of climate and 
affluence required to maintain storage conditions hostile to the fungus
throughout the whole chain.  (It is still a problem in Africa, where higher
temperatures and lower energy input preclude this; but African peanuts are
not exported to the US).  And there is nothing anyone can do to aflatoxin-
contaminated foods to remove it.

You can't scrub salmonella out of chicken; if it's there at all it permeates
the whole bird.  Scrubbing with soap will simply add extra chemicals ranging
>from  irritants to carcinogens.  Go right ahead.

---------------------  Save Scunthorpe from Censorship  ---------------------

---

From: Shez <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 11:59:13 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, Jane Robinson
<[email-masked]> writes
>any of the bag of potatoes I bought last week.  And to think, we ate
>the(stressed out) cherry tomatoes I grew, all summer long.
>
>neighbors to the south of us on the vegetables and fruit they're
>shipping.  What do you know about a good Clorox soaking  (properly
>diluted, of course) for all those things with edible skins (i.e.grapes,
>tomatoes, lettuce, celery, etc.) that we eat raw?
>
>Any suggestions---now that you've added potatoes and tomatoes to my list
>of doubtful products.                  Thanks---
>
>Jane R.

Go back to the potatoes and tomatoes, if you enjoy them, if you follow
all the food fads around now, you would never eat again,
-- 
Shez                                      [email-masked]
The 'Old Craft' lady               http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/
------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [email-masked] (MSLN)
Date: 12 Oct 1996 12:59:11 GMT

There was 
>They were not particullaly popular in England either, The one they
>served up to Good Queen Bess, was raw, so it did not get off to a good
>start.
>-- 
for more interesting responses to potatoes, check out william cobbett on 
potatoes and the irish question

---

From: Mary Elizabeth <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:40:42 -0400

> potatoes and the irish question

Oh, the one that goes "I do not say it is filthy to eat potatoes...what
I do scoff at is the idea of their being considered sustaining...etc.?

MEB

---

From: [email-masked] (BRateaver)
Date: 13 Oct 1996 20:51:35 -0400

I am not sure if I put this info in before or not.
 1. In potato tuber, the alkaloid is greatest at the skin but diminishes
gradually toward the center of the tuber. The skins should NOT be eaten.

2. One scientist spent most of his life telling people and writing to
readers, to not eat potatoes, because the alkaloid caused arthritis in
some people. He wrote a book on it.

B. Rateaver