Subject: Re: Why aren't tasty tomatoes grown commercially in the US?

From: [email-masked] (Suzanne Lucia Demitrio)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 03:24:17 GMT

In article <sharvy.803524850@gladstone>,
Peter Benjamin Sharvy <[email-masked]> wrote:

| [email-masked] (Tony Brower) writes:
| 
| >I live in New York.  If I want to buy tomatoes that have any real taste I 
| >have to either buy them imported from Holland or Israel, or domestic cherry 
| >tomatoes, or, during the summer, buy hydroponic tomatoes (sometimes sold at a 
| >local farmers market).
| >I think it's pretty pathetic that in this giant country you can't buy a 
| >decent tasting regular-sized tomato.
| 
| Since you can buy tasty tomatoes in summer (and possibly grow them 
| yourself?), your only gripe is that you can't get them when it isn't 
| natural for them to grow in your area anyway, i.e., in winter. Why not 
| tailor your wants to the nature of your local environment? It is
| unreasonable to demand fresh tomatoes in winter in New York.

Don't live in New York, do you?  Nothing is "unreasonable
to demand" here -- if it exists in the world, you can
buy it on the streets of New York, legally or il-.  Ency-
clopedic capitalism *is* our local environment.

Tony -- have you tried Gourmet Garage?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Suzanne Lucia                                          [email-masked]

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From: George Scott <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 15:09:02 -0700

Tony,
	Not only are the damn things as tasteless as cardboard, they lack
any semblance of nutritional value as well.   Commercial growers and 
marketers are interested in shelf life, appearance, handling, and profit.
Since most consumers are cost conscious, you will probably continue to 
see "pseudo-tomatoes" in your local supermarket.  

Scotty
 
On 18 Jun 1995, Tony Brower wrote:

(snip)> 
> I hope that one day someone will figure out how to make a lot of money by 
> marketing a delicious domestically grown tomato for half that price.
> 
> Tony Brower
> ___________________________
> ???????????????????????????
> 
> 

[email-masked]      ----------Towards extinction or towards the stars?  
                                 Which would YOU choose?

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From: [email-masked] (Tony Brower)
Date: 18 Jun 1995 03:17:20 GMT

I live in New York.  If I want to buy tomatoes that have any real taste I 
have to either buy them imported from Holland or Israel, or domestic cherry 
tomatoes, or, during the summer, buy hydroponic tomatoes (sometimes sold at a 
local farmers market).
I think it's pretty pathetic that in this giant country you can't buy a 
decent tasting regular-sized tomato.

Right now it's June and local Korean greengrocers are chatrging $2.99 a 
pound for imported tomatoes.

Tony Brower

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From: [email-masked] (Kenneth Stailey)
Date: 18 Jun 1995 15:24:13 GMT

Because they're picked before they're ripe.  This makes them good and
hard so they don't break much duing shipping.  Never mind that they
will never receive the additional sugars that vine ripened tomatoes
do.  It would kill them to come up with better packaging so that ripe
tomatoes could be shipped.

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From: [email-masked] (MCNichols)
Date: 18 Jun 1995 15:01:59 -0400

Dear Tony 
 
   > Why aren't tasty tomatoes grown commercially in the US?

They are grown in the US, but a function of tasty tomatoes is that they
don't keep.  

That's what the Calgene "FlavrSavr" tomato is about - allow ripe tomatoes
to keep  long enough to ship. 

We get them here in the San Joaquin Valley (Stockton - Sacramento) in
season and they're often cheap - but vine ripened tomatoes don't keep. 

Mary

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From: [email-masked] (Peter Benjamin Sharvy)
Date: 18 Jun 1995 18:29:45 -0700

>decent tasting regular-sized tomato.

Since you can buy tasty tomatoes in summer (and possibly grow them 
yourself?), your only gripe is that you can't get them when it isn't 
natural for them to grow in your area anyway, i.e., in winter. Why not 
tailor your wants to the nature of your local environment? It is
unreasonable to demand fresh tomatoes in winter in New York.
-- 
DEFINITIONS
Dumb Bird.  An entity incapable of surviving without old growth forest.
Logger.  A kind of dumb bird.

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From: [email-masked] (David W Wheat)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 12:57:19 GMT

Most markets have a range of tomatoes available most of the time:  
green-gassed ones at cheap prices, imported or glasshouse "vine ripe"
tomatoes, cherry tomatoes, romas, local vine-ripes in the summer, and 
now sometimes Flavr Saver or other genetically engineered tomatoes 
which are vine ripened yet retain some
shipping tolerance.  You pays your money and you takes your choice.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect the cheapest to have the same
qualities as the most expensive.  Also, the poster who distainfully
mentioned that all of the producers of all of these tomatoes are interested
in ``profit'' was correct.  Some of them don't make much, but they all try.
None is a charitable institution.
David

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From: Nicholas Andrews <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 14:52:23 +0100

Lots of people put them in the fridge as soon as they get them home, this 
prevents any ripenig at all.  I found quite a big improvement by letting 
them ripen at room or cellar temperature, buying them at different shades 
of ripeness and using them as they get really good and ripe.  Like you 
have to do with pears.  The paste tomatoes have more taste too, and 
plenty of moisture for my liking.     Good eating!

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From: Connie Falk <[email-masked]>
Date: 19 Jun 1995 15:05:59 GMT

I don't eat tomatoes when they are out of season. I grow them in our long 
summers, and freeze the excess in the form of tomato soup. Growing some 
of your own food is a way to quitting blaming the "system" and taking 
charge of your health. For those with short summers, a cold frame can be 
constructed relatively cheaply, and south facing windows also work. 
Connie

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From: [email-masked] (Randall F Wilkinson)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 13:33:47 GMT

>decent tasting regular-sized tomato.

	It is my understanding that most U.S. tomatoes are now mechanically
harvested.  In order to machine harvest a tomato, it must still be very
firm, green and immature or else the fruit will break apart in the process.
Since tomatoes do not develop much flavor and little color after picking,
what we are left with is a slightly red, undersized, underripe, nearly
tasteless piece of produce.  If you want a good tomatoe and do not have
access to roadside produce stands, you'll have to grow your own.
	This same phenonemon is true with pineapples.  There is nothing as good as
a pineapple picked in the field at peak ripeness.  However, grocery stores
on the mainland demand more shelf life from their pineapples.  Therefore,
they are harvested underripe and shipped over here from Hawaii or where
ever.  The stores get their shelf life but the customers get a fruit with
grossly underdeveloped flavor.
	There are many more examples which could be given.  But I must agree with
you.  The greatest loss is in the mechanically harvested tomato.
--
>>>===> Randy or Verda Wilkinson; Yakima, WA   [email-masked] <===<<<
                     http://www.wolfe.net/~randyw
            (...with all thy getting, get understanding)

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From: [email-masked] (Tony Brower)
Date: 19 Jun 1995 04:08:12 GMT

>Aha come-on Randall and friends, give us a break, most of the tomatoes
>produced on the farm and sold at retail are very good or we would not be
>producing them year after year. These are not the same as the tomatoes
>we produce for canning and have good flavor. The problem is that we all
>want nice red ripe tomatoes year around and the weather does not always
>co-operate so hard pinks are packed for long distance markets. People
>who want to kid themselves that high price imported tomatoes are better
>then local are doing just that, kidding themselves. Heck it's not
>uncommon for California growers and/or packers to go to South America or
>Israel to help them set up tomato farm's and packing sheds and they
>all come here sooner or later. We share the same seed, and sometime's
>sleep in the same beds, so to speak, or at least share the same markets.
>
>Most fresh market tomatoes are still picked by hand. They can not be
>"green", but are pink and do ripen post harvest. They are not tasteless
>but do have less acid then some of the older and home grown verities.
>
>Nothing wrong at all with growing your own, and very few vines will
>keep most in tomatoes over an extended period of time until frost does
>em in. I like the old Beef stake verities myself. Let us know when they
>are ready to pick.<G>
>                             ttul Andy-

Well maybe it's not the fault of the small farmers, but if you visit a 
supermarket in New York now you'll find that 99% of the tomatoes available 
are tasteless.  

Perhaps the big agribusiness are turning out tons of garbage 
product at the right price for the supermarket managers and the consumers' 
taste-buds have been dulled by the steadily decreasing taste of the 
vegetables.  

Don't take my word for it.  Go into a supermarket or a 
greengrocer.  The only choice in this neighborhood is imported tomatoes if 
you want any taste.

Tony Brower

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From: [email-masked] (Norman Yen)
Date: 21 Jun 1995 18:35:13 GMT

>supermarket in New York now you'll find that 99% of the tomatoes available 

I'm just wondering if there are any farms close to the New York area that
grow tomatoes?  If not then it's no wonder you get tasteless tomatoes in
New York.  Maybe you should consider growing your own tomatoes?

>taste-buds have been dulled by the steadily decreasing taste of the 

I work in the food service industry with a company that supplies produce
to hotels and restaurants and when produce is brought in they're usually
brought in while they're in the 'green stage'.  In the case of tomatoes they
are trucked in from Mexico, California and Florida and always come in
green.  I'm sure you understand that if they were trucked up here (Vancouver,
Canada) while they were ripe or even just pink the fruit would be all mush
by the time it reaches its destination.  The only chance in ever getting a
product that is ripe would be if it came in locally and that would mean
something grown indoors, which usually cost more than something grown in
a field.

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From: [email-masked] (Randall F Wilkinson)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 04:48:52 GMT

[email-masked] wrote:
>Actually, if they picked them before they're "ripe", they'd never turn color. 
>They can even advertise "vine ripened" because if picked at stage 1
>(green, star stage), they will eventually turn red.

If you have noticed, many produce departments use red-tinted lighting over
the tomato section.

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From: [email-masked] (Randall F Wilkinson)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 04:49:05 GMT

George Scott <[email-masked]> wrote:

>any semblance of nutritional value as well.

Tasteless, yes.  Without a semblance of nutritional value, far from it.
Probably higher in Vit. C and lower in sugar.  Mineral content would be
about the same as fully ripened tomatoes.  Taste and nutritional value
don't always go hand in hand.

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From: misa martin <[email-masked]>
Date: 19 Jun 1995 05:01:07 GMT

I don't buy tomatoes in the supermarkets anymore. I have better luck at 
the Union Square market, and with the tomato plants that are growing on 
my windowsill here in NYC.
8 tomatoes imported from Israel at Dean & Deluca = $10.25!!!!!!!!!!!