Subject: Re: CROP DAMAGES...NEED HELP!!

From: [email-masked] (Pat Kiewicz)
Date: 23 Jul 1996 14:51:28 GMT

In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960718114532.3882E-100000@gbc>, [email-masked] 
says...
>
>
>I would pay and do pay for organically grown food!! so the market is 
>there to spare and growing every day.  Try it - you might like it!
>
I would suggest that organic farmers and gardeners don't neccessarily have 
any more tolerence for crop damages by animals than do conventional farmers,
as witness a recent letter to Organic Gardening magazine (with illustration)
about the fate of an organic-garden-destroying ground hog.

The very act of plowing and reaping the land at all can result in the
inadvertant death of numerous small animals.  None of us are innocent!

Pat in Plymouth MI

---

From: Laura Key <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:38:23 -0700

George Gehrke wrote:
> 
> Jeff Johnston wrote:
> >
> In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] wrote:
> I need to find literature, companies, gov't organizations, 
> associations, etc. that deal with the control of crop damages by deer, 
> birds, bears, and other vertebrates.  Please post reply or email me: 	[email-masked]

<snip>
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Johnston
> > President, Canadian Organic Growers
> 
> Fact is, your crops are doing damage to wildlife's habitats.  Why don't
> you reconsider the 'killing concept' of agriculture and stop being a
> cheap skate about bleeding one more bushel of wheat or corn.  Feeding
> wildlife or letting them have a share of 'what once was' is a cheap
> exchange.  Man never seems to be able to keep his hands off the spot
> necessary for even a bird to stand.  I suppose you're also considering
> getting rid of that last hedgerow in the bargain?

----------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------

Well said!!

In the words attributed to Chief Seattle, "The earth does not belong to 
us, we belong to the earth". As we empower the spirituality within us and 
the nature about us, we become strong in spirit. We become "Strong as 
Iron and Steady as the Oak".    

This does not mean that all people who call themselves 'farmers' are 
intolerant right-wingers who think "stewardship" is a code word 
for annihilation.  Make sure that your acreage fields are separated
by 'shelter-belts'.  This allows two things, cuts erosion (which can
do more long-term harm than any animal) and also provides a place
for critters to exist -in peace.  Remember Mr. Johnson, -YOU invaded 
the home of the animals  -and unfortunately, as the human population
continues to increase, the animals have no place to 'go'.  
I suggest you sure more respect to them and live in peace *with* them.
I plant twice as much veggies as I require.  That leaves half for
me and half for the critters.  There is no greed on MY homestead.

---

From: [email-masked](John T. Klausner )
Date: 24 Jul 1996 20:17:33 GMT

>> getting rid of that last hedgerow in the bargain?

Right!  And if those poor Armenians starve, that's their problem!
Sue K

---

From: [email-masked] (David Savage)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:31:45 GMT

Get a crop damage permit and eat the deer.
dave

Lau

---

From: [email-masked] (ptay)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:53:45 -0600

Shawn,
When you say "crop damage" do you mean in your "kitchen garden" OR the
wheat ( & other grains) in the " Breadbasket of the World"?????
Patti

---

From: Dale Wagner <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 17:40:52 -0700

John T. Klausner wrote:
> Sue KSuch STUPIDITY  If all these "do-gooders" spent more time doing good and 
less time stirring s### just to see if it smells, every thing would be 
better off.  With out ALL the details, no plan may be devised or sceam 
critized-only comments made as suggestions.

---

From: Oz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:56:56 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, Laura Key <[email-masked]> writes

> Remember Mr. Johnson, -YOU invaded 

You obviously don't have rabbits. They want it all and are going to
fight to get it all. On top of that they arrived several tens of
thousands of years (at least) after man, so in no way has this land (UK)
belonged to them.

They invaded me, not vice versa.

So it ain't quite so simple as you might imagine.

------------------------------- 
'Oz     "When I knew little, all was certain. The more I learnt,
        the less sure I was. Is this the uncertainty principle?"

---

From: Brian Liedtke <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 01:13:44 -0600

Did anybody else give a double take and a 'ooooh-boy' to this response?

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 07:39:01 +0000

Laura Keys writes
> >the home of the animals  -and unfortunately, as the human population
(snip)
Oz writes
 
> So it ain't quite so simple as you might imagine.
Oz is right!!!

It would seem that animals are as lazy as people.  They come out "in the 
open" to eat crops that are easier to get to and more nutritious rather 
than stay in natural habitat and eat the meager offerings mother nature 
can provide them (My area of the US has plenty of habitat for wild 
animals to stay in if they so desired).

Could we posibly start a food stamp program??

Jim
[email-masked]

---

From: "Alan S. Wicks" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 08:50:13 -0700

Ms. Laura Key,

You mention that there is no greed on your homestead.  Good.  However, since your return 
address is Texas Instruments I assume that you are not making your living as an organic 
(or inorganic) farmer.  It is a very different thing when your income is dependent on 
the production of the land vs your (again I am assuming that your livelyhood is from 
Texas Instruments) food production which is not necessary to your existance but could be 
purchased if necessary.

There is a very great difference between greed and a desire to provide for your family 
in the best way you know how.

Alan Wicks
Agricultural consultant to organic and inorganic agriculture.

---

From: Susan Clonts <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 11:07:42 -0500

Here is another thought to meditate on:

"And God said, 'Let the earth bring forth every kind of animal-
cattle and reptiles and wildlife of every kind.'  And so it
was.  God made all sorts of wild animals and cattle and reptiles.
And God was pleased with what he had done.  Then God said, 'Let
us make a man--someone like ourselves, to be the master of
all life upon the earth and in the skies and in the seas.'
So God made man like his Maker.  Like God did God make man.
Man and Maid did he make them.  Ang God blessed them and told
them, 'Multiply and fill the earth and subdue it:  you are the
masters of the fish and birds and all the animals.'"
   Genesis 1:24-28

Susan

---

From: Mr & Mrs Swillmaster & Son <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 19:13:50 +0000

> masters of the fish and birds and all the animals.'"

God could of kept the reptiles, and I doubt He's nearly as Self
righteous as most of the representatives of Man who h ave posted an
answer on this thread.  Sarah

---

From: Susan Clonts <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 13:58:25 -0500

> answer on this thread.  Sarah

Sarah,

I don't think people are being self-righteous...I look
at it as sharing experiences, ideas, etc...and that is
freedom.

Susan

---

From: Tracie DeMack <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 19:54:58 GMT

> > getting rid of that last hedgerow in the bargain?

Right On!!

---

From: [email-masked] (David Savage)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 01:53:12 GMT

The other night ther were about a dozen deer in my field.

I wish I had an UZI

dave

---

From: Patrick Russell <[email-masked]>
Date: 31 Jul 1996 22:53:16 GMT

How about erecting a simple electrified fence?

Animals and man can live in harmony.  Take a visit to:
www.waterfordcorp.com/garden.html