Subject: Re: Flaming Compost!

From: [email-masked] (Jeffrey A. Del Col)
Date: 1 Mar 1995 18:48:52 GMT

In a previous article, [email-masked] () says:

>In article <[email-masked]>,
>   [email-masked] wrote:
>>In article <[email-masked]>,
>>[email-masked] (Elizabeth Platt) writes:
>>
>>>
>>>In another (long) post, someone disputed reports of compost
>>>piles catching on fire.  (I was going to say that he "rubbished
>>>it off", but the pun police are watching me...)
>>>
>>When I was younger I witnessed the compost fire phenomenon, it was,
>>in fact, how I learned the concept of spontaneous combustion.  The
>>heap was large, though not huge, I went to investigate and saw a
>>gently burning flame, but mostly smoke.  I found it facsinating at
>>the time.
>
>
>  Of course compost piles can burst into flames.  Just ask any farmer what 
>happens to a barn that contains hay that was stored while wet!  We get several 
>fires every summer here in upsate NY caused by wet hay spontaneously 
>combusting in the hayloft.
>
>Tom

I'll second these accounts.  A colleague of mine came close to losing a barn
to an overheated compost/manure pile.  He noticed smoke, not steam,
rising from the pile and hurried to break it up and wet it to cool it off.
The center of the heap was a charred mass surrounded by a glowing rim.

I myself once stood atop very large, wet stack of hay bales and
quickly realized that my feet would be cooked in my boots if I stood there 
for very long.  That pile was---HOT!!--- and this was 
in late November with light snow on the ground.

J. Del Col
-- 
Jeff Del Col   * "Sleeplessness is like metaphysics.
A-B College    *  Be there."
Philippi, WV   * 
               * ----Charles Simic----

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From: [email-masked] (Tom Rudnick)
Date: 1 Mar 1995 17:52:38 GMT

JohnnK ([email-masked]) writes:
> Fresh grass clippings, if piled higher than a few inches, can generate
> enough heat to start smoldering.  Be particularly careful with them.
> John Koch ([email-masked] or [email-masked])

Yes, this happens. Anyone from a farming background should be familiar
with haystack fires, where the hay was put up too wet.

-Tom
----------------/------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Rudnick     | [email-masked] | When the ship runs out of ocean
Fort Collins,CO | They Might Be Giants - | and the vessel runs aground
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| Land's where we know the boat is found.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 1 Mar 95 22:18:19 -0600

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Piddipat) writes:
> i don't have a farming background, and in fact i'm a novice gardener, 
> but
> i gotta ask--how can a pile of hay catch fire if it's wet????? (slap me if
> i'm stupid, but i gotta know!

Not a stupid question at all, but it's pretty counterintuitive, isn't it?
Wet, rotting vegetation heats up because there are bacteria and fungi
in there, busily decomposing everything.  The higher the activity, the
more the heat.  Piles don't heat evenly:  spots are a little better
insulated, a little better oxygen fed, a little richer in some nutrient
that's in short supply elsewhere.  And the bacteria and fungi can be
giving off volatile gases (like methane) as they're chomping away.
One small part gets warm enough to dry out a bit, but there's still
a lot of heat being given off around that spot.  And several feet of
hay/compost/grain over the top, which makes good insulation.  And maybe
a little methane, or alcohol given off by the fermentation reactions
catches, and it lights a bit of that dry straw, which then dries out
some wetter material, and before you know it, you've lost an entire
barnful of hay.

How fast can vegetation heat up?  Next time you mow, catch the clippings
in a bag (or rake up a couple of cubic feet of clippings) and leave
it in the shade for a few hours.  Come back and stick your hand
in the middle of the pile...  I think you'll be surprised!

Kay Klier   Biology Dept  University of Northern Iowa   [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Piddipat)
Date: 1 Mar 1995 19:36:27 -0500

i don't have a farming background, and in fact i'm a novice gardener, but
i gotta ask--how can a pile of hay catch fire if it's wet????? (slap me if
i'm stupid, but i gotta know!)

pat murray