Subject: NEEM

From: [email-masked] (E. McCullough)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 20:41:22 GMT

I have just read in the new Organic Gardening mag that Neem works on the
dreaded red lily beetle.  i know there was some chat about it and the
fact it has some drawbacks, but the damage by those beetles is incredible
and I would really like to try Neem.  What sources does anyone know that
have it available?
I also think that there's a chance that the trichogramma (sp) wasp might
work> Does anyone have some experience with them?
hoping to be grateful
Liz M
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E. McCullough - [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Jim Smith)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 16:14:03 GMT

> work> Does anyone have some experience with them?

I saw the article in Organic Magazine re NEEM and would also like more info
on it.  I am looking for a safe "pesticide" to use on herbs and vegetables.
I have Retenone (spelling?) but am reluctant to use it on anything I plan
to eat.  The article in Organic mag suggested that NEEM is safer than other
organic pesticides.  Does anyone know of other organic solutions to pest
control for herbs and vegetables?  

Barbara Seeton

--
.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 4 Mar 95 20:43:39 -0600

> control for herbs and vegetables?  

Neem is a broad-spectrum insecticide.  Yes, it is well tolerated by
mammals, but it can clobber a lot of the beneficial insects and 
other invertebrates.  Ditto, rotenone is well tolerated by mammals,
but it clobbers a lot of invertebrates, birds, and fish.

Except for methods like water sprays and starch sprays and flyswatters,
there's probably no good "very safe" pesticides.  If a substance is
going to kill something, it's got to be toxic.  The range of toxicity
and how many other organisms are affected does vary by substance.

There are a lot of ways to reduce your use of pesticides.  I'll state
my choice up front:  I'm a slob gardener.  I plant it, mulch it, 
maybe weed it, and after that it's on its own (except in very rare
instances).  I try to rotate crops, keep the genetic diversity of
cultivars I plant high, and choose spots suitable for the crop being
produced.  This sometimes results in very odd planting arrangements
(a rose and a tomato sharing a trellis?) but it works well for me.
My produce is not unblemished, but there's plenty of it, and I can
easily trim out the "bad spots".

When I use pest control (if I use pest control) I evaluate what the
control costs in my time, and in money, and to the environment.  Most
of the time, it's not worth it, imho.

I'm also not an organic gardener.  I use a lot of methods espoused
by organic gardeners, but (oh horrors!) I will use "chemical fertlizers"
in addition to compost, and I'll use synthetic growth regulators for
flea control (my bete noir), and roundup, and other substances that
put me beyond the pale as far as organic gardening is concerned.
However, the methods that I choose are always carefully targeted to
control just the pest, doing minimal damage to anything else.

Over the years, I've found that if I start with healthy plants,
give them good growing conditions, and let the local insects
(beneficial and pestilential) and fungi (ditto) and nematodes
(ditto) and all the other critters work it out for themselves, 
I have fewer problems than when I start tinkering with the system.

If you want to try it my way, you need to do one of two things:
learn to accept what comes, and to prefer the appearance of a
slightly damaged piece of produce to a perfect one, OR study
up on the diagnosis of plant pests and diseases, and their
life cycles, and learn how to manipulate the system to the advantage
of species you want.  

If you choose the second approach, a book that I recommend is 
Rodale's Chemical Free Yard and Garden, ISBN 0-87857-951-6.
It's got solid information, and it is relatively free of the
"holier than thou" preachiness of organic gardening texts of
earlier years.

Kay Klier   Biology Dept   Univ. Northern Iowa   [email-masked]

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From: Gordon Croft <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Mar 1995 00:18:36 GMT

[email-masked] (Jim Smith) wrote:
> ..

I can remember seeing a program (The Nature of Things) that was talking
about how the people in India use the Neem to brush their teeth!  You 
can buy tooth paste with Neem in it.

Sounded interesting...

TTUL
Gord

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From: "E. Gilding" <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Mar 1995 01:01:17 GMT

> work> Does anyone have some experience with them?

The NEEM tree is a tree native to arid tropical regions, so it doesn't like
wet soil or cold.  And the seeds are the main source of the chemical used to
control insects, however, for those of you who have abig greenhouse or live in the tropics
you can order NEEM seeds from:

The Banana Tree
715 Northampton Street
Easton, PA 18042

they gave me excellent service, their catalog costs $3.00

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From: Gordon Croft <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Mar 1995 00:18:36 GMT

Sounded interesting...

TTUL
Gord

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From: "E. Gilding" <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Mar 1995 01:01:17 GMT

The Banana Tree
715 Northampton Street
Easton, PA 18042