Subject: Re: Persimmon tree

From: Libby Goldstein <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 11:41:59 -0800 (PST)

Kaki persimmons are self-fertile. I don't remember whether
Americans need a pollinator or not. Yes, persimmons can grow
large, but there are one or 2 dwarf Kaki's. You can also prune
them to a reasonable (for you) height.

Libby

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From: [email-masked] (Bob Beer)
Date: 1 Mar 1995 01:18:55 GMT

American Persimmons need a pollinator, the Japanese species is self 
fertile.  

In article <[email-masked]>,
GRKRIEBEL <[email-masked]> wrote:
>I'd like to plant a persimmon tree.  Do i have to plant a pollinating male
>tree nearby?  Rodale encyclopedia says they can grow to 40ft. ht...really?
>I don't have lots of space around here.
>How about the Japanese variety?  any experiences?
>Persimmon tea leaves?

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From: [email-masked] (Alice Ramirez)
Date: 2 Mar 1995 15:43:09 -0800

>How about the Japanese variety?  any experiences?

I can answer your question about the Japanese variety. (Diospiros
Kaki)  I have no personal experience with D. virginiana, the little
yellow ones that grow back east.  First of all, you cannot grow
Japanese persimmon if your winters get colder than 0 degrees.
Although they drop their leaves in fall, 0 farenheit is about the 
coldest they tolerate.  (according to my source materials.  Since my
winters only go down to 38 min, and usually no lower than 45F, it's
not an issue for me.  Happily, they don't appear to need excessive
winter chilling).  I mention this because I can't tell where you live
from your email address.  You do not need a pollinating male tree
nearby for a Japanese persimmon.  In fact, if there are no other trees
nearby to cross pollenate, they will produce fruit anyway, but the
fruit will lack seeds.  If you can grow D. Kaki, I would urge you to
do so.  They are one of the finest fruits in the world.

HOWEVER....................Be warned about one tiny but important detail.
Japanese persimmons come in two varieties, astringent and non-astringent.

The astringent, when ripe, taste the best (at least in my humble
opinion.  meltingly ripe 'Hachiya' persimmon pulp mixed with a soupcon
of Grand Marnier then dribbled over, oh, Hagan Daas honey vanilla ice
cream is to die for.  Or just straight, scooped into a stemware glass
and eaten straight.  You know when they are ripe, because they are
soft all around, including right up around the stem area.  When
astringent persimmons are UNRIPE, however, they are simply awful.

Non-astringent varieties can be eaten crisp, but personally (and this
is only my opinion, others may disagree) I find their flavor inferior.
However, they won't make the entire insides of your mouth pucker if
you bit into one hard.

Unless you live in Southern Cal or the south of Florida, you probably
cannot grow the tropical persimmon (D. digyna).  You'd need a male and
female tree anyway.  
 
>Persimmon tea leaves?

If no one here can answer this, you might check with the nice folks at
alt.folklore.herbs

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From: [email-masked] (Lubomir Dolezel)
Date: 3 Mar 1995 19:17:02 GMT

Re Alice Ramirez's observation that you can't grow Diospyros kaki if
your winter temps fall below 0F: after looking into cultivars which
may be hardier than those grown in California, I came up with three
names:

D. k. 'Eureka', a pollination constant astringent type of high
quality, with deep reddish fruits, hardy to -20F

D. k. 'Saijo', yellow or orange fruit, good flavour, very sweet, hardy
to zone 5 or 6

D. k. 'Giombo', yellow fruits, very sweet, hardy to zone 5 or 6

If anyone knows a source for any of these, I'm sure some of us would
like to know about it!

Dr. N. H. Traill ([email-masked])
York University, Toronto

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From: [email-masked] (Ben Sharvy)
Date: 6 Mar 1995 01:14:14 -0800

>How about the Japanese variety?  any experiences?

The only American persimmon that is self-fertile is Meader, and it is 
only slightly self-fertile. I think it may also function as a 
pollinator--I don't have any experience in this myself. American 
persimmons can grow up to 50 feet tall, and tolerate part shade.

Asian persimmon trees are smaller, although the fruit is larger. They are 
self-fruitful, and require full sun. They are hardy to USDA zone 7, about 
0 F.
-- 
Live Globally, Die Locally. Witches Heal. So Do Blowjobs. Liberate the
Weirdos and You Liberate the Squares.

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From: [email-masked] (charles dunn)
Date: 6 Mar 1995 14:24:02 -0600

No pollinator necessary, you get seedless fruit without one.  D. virginiana, thenative species can grow 40 tho usually less; D. kaki, the Japanese one, might reach 12'', but is usually pruned to less.  Some Japanese varieties are not hardy in very cold climates.  Never heard of persimmon leaf tea.  Will try it as son as mine leafs out.       
: I'd like to plant a persimmon tree.  Do i have to plant a pollinating male
: tree nearby?  Rodale encyclopedia says they can grow to 40ft. ht...really?
: I don't have lots of space around here.
: How about the Japanese variety?  any experiences?
: Persimmon tea leaves?

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From: [email-masked] (Lubomir Dolezel)
Date: 3 Mar 1995 19:17:02 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (Ben Sharvy)
Date: 6 Mar 1995 01:14:14 -0800

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From: [email-masked] (charles dunn)
Date: 6 Mar 1995 14:24:02 -0600