Subject: For Emily, about Dianthus

From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 95 19:35:57 -0600

Emily, I pulled one of my usual dumb moves and deleted your email about
Dianthus before I answered it.  Duh.

Anyhow, yes, the "clove gillyflower" that was used to flavor wine in
medieval England is Dianthus caryophyllus.  IN fact, there was a
cultivar called "sops in wine" used for this purpose.  The single
flowers seen in period illustrations may be a result of re-using 
woodcuts or illustrations for several species (Dodoen's Herbal of 1581
uses the same cut for at least three different grains, if I remember
right).  Or they may have simply been using single-flowered cultivars
instead of the more familiar (today) doubles.  Certainly doubles were
known at the time, since you see them (stylized) in crewel embroidery
and blackwork of the period.

Where to get single Dianthus caryophyllus cultivars?  I don't know.
My best guess would be some of the big British seed houses.  If you've
got a chapter of the Society for Creative Anachronism around, you
can try pleading with the best cooks, herbalists, and vintners in
the group, or maybe a plea to rec.org.sca...

As far as flavoring goes, if you use modern cultivars, use the ones
that have the clove odor: many of the modern cultivars are scentless
or nearly so.  I suspect you could substitute clove pink, D. plumarius,
as it is similar in odor.  As far as I know, none of the Dianthus
species are poisonous when consumed in any reasonable quantity.  I've
eaten "flower salad" that was about 50% pinks petals and lived to
tell the tale, and I've sampled most of the commonly available
species.  (Yes, botanists *will* try anything.  Sorta like goats...  ;-) )

Kay Klier  [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (CT)
Date: 30 Mar 1995 17:14:26 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] says:
>flowers <snip>  using single-flowered cultivars
>snip>
>Where to get single Dianthus caryophyllus cultivars? 
>
>snip> I suspect you could substitute clove pink, D. plumarius,
>as it is similar in odor.  
<snip>

May I hop in here? I've had some of the same questions about clove vs. 
cottage pinks.

I've got single, pink w/ maroon center, blue-green foliage Extremely
Fragrant pinks. (?about 1" diameter). They self sow same type.  I got 
them from the garden of a place I use to rent (sure, I left some there).
The foliage persist throughout winter, looking ratty in March, coming
alive in May. Blooms ~ June 10th (zone 5 Mass). Would you like seed if
it's legit? I give these away to everyone, even forcing them onto people.
The world cannot have too many.  Unfortunately the moles, voles like
the ones I put around a stone retaining wall. They have come true from 
gathered seed for me.  Anyone know what variety? (Probably before 1960)

CT [email-masked]