Subject: moss in lawns

From: [email-masked] (E.M. Rushton)
Date: 22 Mar 1995 16:43:27 GMT

My lawn is full of moss, and getting mossier.  How can I get rid of the moss
without killing the things I like to have in my garden (worms, birds, cats, 
grass, people, friendly insects)?  My lawn is quite shady and we get a lot of
rain here.
Thamks, Emma

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From: [email-masked] (Christine Owens)
Date: 23 Mar 1995 05:57:19 GMT

>grass, people, friendly insects)?  My lawn is quite shady and we get a lot of

Unfortunately, the rain and shade make moss really hard to
eradicate.  I have found that improving drainage can help.

Chris Owens

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From: [email-masked] (Bob Beer)
Date: 24 Mar 1995 02:46:06 GMT

Or, you could take advantage of the shade, so away with the lawn, and 
have a great shade garden.  If moss grows there then you have moisture 
and a wonderful variety of plants to work with.  Although you can apply 
chemicals and work really hard and keep a lawn there, I tend to be lazy 
and go toward planting what really wants to grow there.  I wish I had 
*more* shad in my lawn, as I just recently got bitten by the shade garden 
bug.  Imagine a nice stone path through a glade of ferns, moss, bloodroot 
and jacob's ladder blooming among them, some yellow welsh poppies, 
columbines...

Just a thought.  :)

bob

In article <[email-masked]>,

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From: [email-masked] (Jeremy Hickman)
Date: 23 Mar 1995 12:05:20 -0500

>Chris Owens

Doesn't moss like acid soil?  Wouldn't raising the pH (with lime, wood ashes
etc.) work?

Jeremy

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From: [email-masked] (Christine Owens)
Date: 23 Mar 1995 05:57:19 GMT

Chris Owens

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From: [email-masked] (Bob Beer)
Date: 24 Mar 1995 02:46:06 GMT

Just a thought.  :)

bob

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From: [email-masked] (Jeremy Hickman)
Date: 23 Mar 1995 12:05:20 -0500

Jeremy

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From: [email-masked] (Steven M. Begley)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:23:09 GMT

>>grass, people, friendly insects)?  My lawn is quite shady and we get a lot of

Moss is indicative of several things: High acidity, poor drainage, compact 
soil. Fix those and the moss should turn to lawn.

Steven

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From: [email-masked] (Christine Owens)
Date: 25 Mar 1995 15:48:12 GMT

>Doesn't moss like acid soil?  Wouldn't raising the pH (with lime, wood ashes

Yes, but then the grass won't grow, either.

Chris Owens

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From: Beverley Foss <[email-masked]>
Date: 25 Mar 1995 20:33:32 GMT

> Doesn't moss like acid soil?  Wouldn't raising the pH (with lime, wood ashes
Moss does love acid. In fact I am acidifying parts of my garden to encourage 
moss. Moss is so pretty to look at and has a lovely texture. Bev Foss

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From: [email-masked] (Lynda Miller)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:39:17 CST

>soil. Fix those and the moss should turn to lawn.

Speaking of poor drainage, one of my flower beds in front of the house keeps a 
constant layer of moss due to poor drainage and I'm told it's not good for my 
foundation.  

What's a good way to restore good drainage to a shady flowerbed?

Lynda

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From: [email-masked] (Christine Owens)
Date: 26 Mar 1995 13:10:18 GMT

>What's a good way to restore good drainage to a shady flowerbed?

This is a LOT of work, but you only have to do it once.

Dig out the entire bed to a depth of 2 feet.  Then, dig
a trench at least 6 feet long, 2 feet deep, and 2 feet wide
downhill from the flower bed.  Place a piece of perforated
pipe in the bottom of the trench.  Fill the trench to 4 inches
below the surface, and the bed to a depth of 8 inche with
2" rock.  Lay a sheet of landscape cloth over the rock.
Backfill with earth and replant.

Good luck.

Chris Owens

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From: [email-masked] (HassMfgCo)
Date: 28 Mar 1995 10:04:17 -0500

Copper sulfate dissolved in water kills moss.  You can then clear out the
dead moss and plant grass.  

Dave Hass

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From: Susan Sanders <[email-masked]>
Date: 28 Mar 1995 20:21:00 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> Tena Hayes,
[email-masked] writes:
>shade at all. There are vast expanses of moss out there, which slowly are
>expandind and killing the other grasses out back. Do you really think
>applying lime would help? The pH of my soil is between 6.9 and 7.2,

Well, it shouldn't hurt to try.  Grass wouldn't mind a bit if the pH were
more in the 6.0-6.5 range.                                           
-Sue Sanders

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From: [email-masked] (Tena Hayes)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:50:29 -0500

I know you say that moss generallly likes moist, shady areas. But I have
an old farm field as a backyard (3 acres) and it is sandy loam with no
shade at all. There are vast expanses of moss out there, which slowly are
expandind and killing the other grasses out back. Do you really think
applying lime would help? The pH of my soil is between 6.9 and 7.2,
depending on where I sample. I do know most of the area does not have much
organic material in it, but it is impractical to try to add any. Any
suggestions? Tena

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From: Susan Sanders <[email-masked]>
Date: 29 Mar 1995 14:43:17 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> , [email-masked]
writes:
>Oops!  Lime makes soil more alkaline (raises the pH), not more acid,

Whoa!  Thanks for that correction, Kay (where was my head?)  Yes, ignore
what I said.    Adding lime *will not* give you a pH of 6.0-6.5; instead
it will raise it above 7.
														-Sue Sanders

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 95 17:27:17 -0600

> organic material in it, but it is impractical to try to add any. Any

Tena, most mosses do like moist soils, but there are some that make it
in drier areas.  Yours sounds most odd, though.  Call the herbarium
in the botany dept at U. Mich. and see if someone will identify your 
moss(?) for you.

If you have no luck there, drop me a note, and I'll send you some
instructions about mailing a sample to me for id.

Kay Klier  [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 95 17:34:07 -0600

Oops!  Lime makes soil more alkaline (raises the pH), not more acid,
as would be the case with a reduction from 6.9 to 6.5....
Most grasses do indeed appreciate a slightly basic soil, however.

Kay (I've been grading too many papers) Klier   [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 95 17:27:17 -0600

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 95 17:34:07 -0600

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 1 Apr 95 16:23:15 -0230

> grass, people, friendly insects)?  My lawn is quite shady and we get a lot of

A constant problem here, too. Local gardening experts recommend lots of 
lime (we have very acid soil, do you?), and increasing drainage. The 
experts say that healthy grass can beat out moss. And if it doesn't? I have 
been told that the Japanese have moss gardens.

I lime at least once a year, and fertilize the grass. I don't buy chemical 
moss-killers. I am also beginning to establish shade-loving ground covers 
in the shadiest areas.

Cheryl

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From: [email-masked] (-deleon m.m.)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 23:44:05 GMT

>Kay Klier  [email-masked]

Tena's situation sounds real familiar.  I too have old farm fields
with very sandy soil and low organic matter.  Some areas (full sun)
have lots of what definitely looks like moss.  There's some in the
lawn, too. I haven't tested the pH yet.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Marilyn DeLeon		[email-masked]	    Wells, Maine
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From: [email-masked] (Catherine Dobbins M.D.)
Date: 2 Apr 1995 21:23:00 -0700

In rec.gardens [email-masked] (-deleon m.m.) said: 

>In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (E.M.
Rushton)  
>writes: 
>> My lawn is full of moss, and.................................. 
-- 
 
I've enjoyed following this train because I've been trying to get moss to
grow on the Sonoma field stone wall I've just put in and on the rocks and
ground around the pond so I've been doing just the opposite of what's been
suggested here and seems to be working!  Thanks for the tips--Catherine 
M.C. Dobbins, M.D. 
Hillsborough, CA 
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (G Daniel)
Date: 3 Apr 1995 09:10:20 -0400

I've also enjoyed this thread for the same reason as Catherine Dobbins,
I've been trying to encourage the moss. With a shady, wooded lot, heavy
clay soil which has been compacted, and poor drainage, it seems like moss
is the path of least resistance. It's pretty... doesn't need mowing...
soft underfoot... With spring bulbs like wood hyacinth, crocus and grape
hyacinth, followed by small woodland wildflowers that don't mind the heavy
soil, my yard looks more like a park and less like a lawn, but I like it
that way.
Looking forward to the day I'm lawnmower-free....
G Daniel

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From: [email-masked] (Dick Gilman)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 19:04:26 GMT

You have to get a soil test to see how much lime to put on.  To
change the level 1 point I would have to put exactly 1 ton thats
right 1 ton of lime onto my soil.  So get it tested first to see
how much to add.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 1 Apr 95 16:23:15 -0230

Cheryl

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From: [email-masked] (-deleon m.m.)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 23:44:05 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (Catherine Dobbins M.D.)
Date: 2 Apr 1995 21:23:00 -0700

Rushton)  
--

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From: [email-masked] (G Daniel)
Date: 3 Apr 1995 09:10:20 -0400

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From: [email-masked] (Dick Gilman)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 19:04:26 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (Dick Gilman)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 19:04:26 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (William )
Date: 09 Apr 1995 05:57:13 GMT

There was some "get rid of moss in lawns" spray at the local garden store.
If I remember correctly, the active ingreedient listed was either ferric or
ferrous sulfate.  I'm not sure which would be the same as the "iron sulfate"
sold for iron enhancement in flowerbeds.

Ortho's "All About Lawns" says:

    Moss and algae in lawsn usually result from cultueral conditions such
    as improper amounts of fertilizer, poor drainage or air circulation,
    and too much shade.  Moss is ...

    If you cannot control moss by raking, treat it with 3Tablespoons of
    copper sulfate for every 1000 square feet  or 10 pounds of ammonium
    sulfate for every 1000 square feet.  This amount of ammonium sulfate
    may furnish too much nitrogen for cool-season grasses if applied in
    late spring.  Treat algae...
    These suggested cures are only temporary for both problems.  For
    permanant solutions, look for an eliminate the conditions causing them.

I'd add that copper sulfate (in much higher concentrations) is used for
killing roots in plumbing systems, so I'd think twice about using it on
lawns that have (say) underlying tree roots.

BillW