Subject: Bush tomatoes need "frame"? and more....

From: [email-masked] (Brad Andrews)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:35:17 GMT

I will be growing some bush tomato plants in my garden this year along with
some of the "normal" climbing variety.  I will be using the circular "cages"
for the taller ones, but I wondered if the bush ones would need/desire
such a cade to support them.  They are a kind of cherry tomato, though
I forget the exact brand now.

Also, what are one or two good books that I could purchase that would serve
as good references?  I have an "expanded for the '90s" Ortho book that seems
decent which I got from the library and I was considering that, along with one
"small gardens" book.  I would appreciate any insight.

Finally, how much of the soil around the tomatoes do I need to dig and
mix up?  I am planing them in the mulch beds around the house.  While it
may look a bit tacky, and it is not the "best" place/arrangement, its what
I have.  I plan on adding some peat/manure/topsoil mix to the top of the rather
clay soil and former mulch area.  Anything I am missing?

---

Brad Andrews
[email-masked]
All opinions are strictly mine

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 95 18:12:05 -0600

> I forget the exact brand now.
Cherry tomatoes don't need supports.  Most tomatoes get maximum yield if
you let them sprawl on the ground rather than supporting them, but you 
do need lots of extra room, and a good thick mulch on the ground.

> "small gardens" book.  I would appreciate any insight.

If you're on the west coast of the US, the Sunset Western Garden
Book is superb.  The Ortho and Time-Life series are both pretty good,
but maybe a bit happy on the pesticides.

One I like for beginners (and not so beginners!) is Rodale's
Chemical-Free Yard and Garden, which manages to get across the basics
of what makes plants grow well without the "holier than thou"
approach that infested many of Rodale's publications.  If you've
got a Half-Price Books near you, you may be able to get a 1991
edition for <$10.  The current edition is about $20-25, I think,
and worth it.
> clay soil and former mulch area.  Anything I am missing?

Work up as much soil as you can for each plant... a volume about the
size of a clothes basket is good.  (I know, I know, I used to garden
in practically pure clay-- yech!).  You're going to think me crazy,
but plant your tomatoes deeply.  Bury the bottom leaves.  If you've
just got a thin (4-6") layer of decent soil, plant them at an angle, 
so much of the stem is covered.  This will induce the plants to
put out extra "adventitious" roots along the stem, giving them
more roots to slurp up soil nutrients and water, increasing your yield.

Oh yes, once your tomatoes are in, mulch with something: cardboard,
newspapers, old rugs, plastic, storebought mulch, whatever.  This
will help keep the weeds down, and keep the soil moisture constant,
reducing stress cracks and blossom end rot.

Have fun!

Kay Klier  [email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 95 18:12:05 -0600

Have fun!

---

From: [email-masked] (Brad Andrews)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:24:52 GMT

In article [email-masked], [email-masked] writes:
]In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Brad Andrews) writes:
]> I will be growing some bush tomato plants in my garden this year along with
]> some of the "normal" climbing variety.  I will be using the circular "cages"
]> for the taller ones, but I wondered if the bush ones would need/desire
]> such a cade to support them.  They are a kind of cherry tomato, though
]> I forget the exact brand now.
]Cherry tomatoes don't need supports.  Most tomatoes get maximum yield if
]you let them sprawl on the ground rather than supporting them, but you 
]do need lots of extra room, and a good thick mulch on the ground.

Even the other climbing variety I also got?  I was planning on a "cage"
for that, since they grow tall.

]
]> 
]> Also, what are one or two good books that I could purchase that would serve
]> as good references?  I have an "expanded for the '90s" Ortho book that seems
]> decent which I got from the library and I was considering that, along with one
]> "small gardens" book.  I would appreciate any insight.
]
]If you're on the west coast of the US, the Sunset Western Garden
]Book is superb.  The Ortho and Time-Life series are both pretty good,
]but maybe a bit happy on the pesticides.

I am in Columbus, Ohio.  (Westerville actually.)

]
]One I like for beginners (and not so beginners!) is Rodale's
]Chemical-Free Yard and Garden, which manages to get across the basics
]of what makes plants grow well without the "holier than thou"
]approach that infested many of Rodale's publications.  If you've
]got a Half-Price Books near you, you may be able to get a 1991
]edition for <$10.  The current edition is about $20-25, I think,
]and worth it.

Is the most recent version worth the extra cost?  I.E., does it have
any information the half-price books wouldn't?

]> 
]> Finally, how much of the soil around the tomatoes do I need to dig and
]> mix up?  I am planing them in the mulch beds around the house.  While it
]> may look a bit tacky, and it is not the "best" place/arrangement, its what
]> I have.  I plan on adding some peat/manure/topsoil mix to the top of the rather
]> clay soil and former mulch area.  Anything I am missing?
]
]
]Work up as much soil as you can for each plant... a volume about the
]size of a clothes basket is good.  (I know, I know, I used to garden
]in practically pure clay-- yech!).  You're going to think me crazy,
]but plant your tomatoes deeply.  Bury the bottom leaves.  If you've
]just got a thin (4-6") layer of decent soil, plant them at an angle, 
]so much of the stem is covered.  This will induce the plants to
]put out extra "adventitious" roots along the stem, giving them
]more roots to slurp up soil nutrients and water, increasing your yield.
]
]Oh yes, once your tomatoes are in, mulch with something: cardboard,
]newspapers, old rugs, plastic, storebought mulch, whatever.  This
]will help keep the weeds down, and keep the soil moisture constant,
]reducing stress cracks and blossom end rot.

We were wondering about that.  At one point we thought we shouldn't
mulch in the "garden area" of the mulch beds, but it sounds like
it would be worthwhile.  We are planning about 2 inches of shredded
Cypris.  Fortunately our homeowners association is puttting together
a large group purchase so we are getting them about a buck a 3 cf bag
below any other prices I have seen.

]
]Have fun!

That I am sure we will.  :)

---

Brad Andrews
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 31 Mar 95 19:13:04 -0600

> for that, since they grow tall.

I'm relying on memory for this, but yes, as I recall, all tomatoes did
better sprawled than staked or trellised.  It does take a tremendous
amount of room, and you're likely to be considered a total slob (or
at least an eccentric) by the neighbors.  You can maximize yield
*per ground area* by planting multiple plants and staking, while the
sprawl method maximizes yield per plant (and work per gardener... ;-) )

> any information the half-price books wouldn't?

I took a look at the current edition at Borders a few weeks ago...
looks like the info on availability of controls has been updated
a bit, but I saw no reason to purchase a new edition.  YMMV, however.
A check at books.com says that the current edition is $30.  Mine
(from Half-Price) is marked $10, and a friend said he saw a copy
in a Half-Price in ?Ohio ?Wisconsin?  for $5 for the 1991 edition.

> below any other prices I have seen.

GAK!  (sorry, my cheapskate gene just turned on... )  ;-)
Around here, 2" of mulch would help nicely in soil moisture
problems, but would not surpress weeds.  If you are using
cypress for the aesthetics, I guess that's one thing, but I'd
sure be looking for something cheaper.  Try dumpster diving for
discarded carpet:  Put it backing side up, cut holes for plants,
plant through the holes, and cover it with a thin layer of something
aesthetic.  At the end of the season, cut down the plants, roll up
the carpet for next year.  Or use plain corrugated cardboard,
from boxes salvaged at the supermarket.  Lay a single layer on the
soil, stake it down if you think you need to with some sticks through
the sheet, and top with aesthetic mulch.  

When I want to completely block light to the soil, I usually use
cardboard.  That decays over the winter, and I dig it in.  Otherwise,
I use whatever organic matter I can get free or cheap.  Spoiled hay
is a cheapie around here, and so are the leaves and grassclippings that
Certain Neighbors still want to throw out.  (This is something I
began years ago, when I read Ruth Stout's _How to have a green
thumb without an aching back_ (borrow it from the library, I think
it's out of print, alas!).  In my neighborhood, infested with
clay soil, and no one interested in the Ortho Perfect Lawn, lawns
might be fertilized with farm fertilizer, but not "weed and feed"
type stuff.  Most people tossed out their grass clippings (we didn't;
our mower lacked a bagging attachment).  I used to trundle up 
and down the street with my little red wagon, picking up the 
trashbags of grass the neighbors pitched.  I can just imagine the
neighbors peeking out from behind the curtains:  "Oh, there's that
Klier girl again... I hear she gets good grades, but I really don't
think she's --- well -- quite right in the head!"  ;-)

> That I am sure we will.  :)

Yup.  Two of the biggest pleasures in gardening are the first tomato
off your vines each season, and being the first to haul in a load
of nicely grown surplus tomatoes to the office...  :-)

Kay   [email-masked]