Subject: Inexperienced Composter Question

From: Anne VanMeter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 00:18:11 -0500

I've read 2 books in the past week, all the posts on compost, all the 
magazine articles, and still can't figure out what I'm doing!!!! AAARRggh!

I live in the city (Philly) and have a tiny yard (20 x 20) as well as a 
strip alongside the house and a dozen roses out front (half minis). My 
compost is at the corner of the backyard, in one of those black plastic 
bins that can occasionally be found for cheap. 

I've read directions which mostly say to layer manure, clippings, and 
kitchen garbage. Problem is, how are my husband and I supposed to produce 
3 inches (or more) of kitchen garbage? The manure is easy, as the Agric. 
High School is very close on Henry Ave. Next problem is, what to do when 
the books say to turn this pile with all these nice layers? Am I supposed 
to maintain the layers by carefully placing my pile into another pile?

Last year I simply started with dirt from the garden and added composted 
sludge (free from the water department) and then our small quantity of 
grass clippings and garbage. At the end of the summer, I broke up all the 
tomato stems etc. and tossed them in too. Two weeks ago, I pulled apart 
the whole mess, added the composted stuff to the beds, and pitched the 
rest back in with manure etc. Will this process be okay? I'm not terribly 
impatient, but would like to get more than one batch out per year! The 
pile is not heating up like it should, but last book says add more 
manure. ??????  I'm so confused!

Any help appreciated...       Anne

---

From: Bryce Grevemeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: 28 Mar 1995 16:00:58 GMT

Anne VanMeter <[email-masked]> wrote:
> . . . . . . 
> kitchen garbage.  
> . . . . . . 
> Next problem is, what to do when the books say to turn this pile 
> with all these nice layers? Am I supposed to maintain the layers by 
> carefully placing my pile into another pile?
> . . . . . .
> Two weeks ago, I pulled apart the whole mess, added the composted 
> stuff to the beds, and pitched the rest back in with manure etc. Will 
> this process be okay?
>
> The pile is not heating up like it should, but last book says add more 

	< above edited for breviaty>

Some material that we compost is high in nitrogen.  This is 
generally GREEN material, such as grass clippings and weeds.  

Other material is high in carbon.  This is generally BROWN 
material, such as fall leaves, and twigs and stems.  Actually,
both have about the same carbon content, but the green stuff 
has a much higher ratio of nitrogen to carbon.  (Horse manure, 
despite it’s color, falls in the green category.)

The carbon nitrogen balance is important for composting.  If
you have too little nitrogen, bacteria will be unhappy and the 
decomposition will be slow.  If you get the nitrogen content
to high, things will happen fast, but the pile will likely "go
bad" and start to stink.  (This generally makes one unpopular 
with the neighbors. <wink>)

The instructions to put stuff in 3 inch layers was intended to 
prevent you from putting four feet of wet green grass clippings 
on top of four feet of dry leaves and wondering why the leaves
took a year to decompose and at the same time why the pile 
smelled so bad.

Turning the pile implies MIXING the pile.  Mixing is good, but
it is also (often) hard work.  The closer you get the green and 
brown materials, the better and faster you will get compost.  If
you don’t get them together, you will still get compost, it will
just take longer.  Many of us have a problem with making layers
because nature does not always provide us with equal amounts
of green and brown materials at the same time.  Some folks put
in only enough to what ever they have to make the proper layers
and throw the excess in the trash.  Some folks save up dry leaves
and other brown material from the fall and add it a little at a time
in the spring and summer when you seem to have an excess of
green.  My own solution is to put everything in the pile as it 
comes and to turn the pile when necessary.  

<BTW before I get flamed, I might add that you will find very 
little support on this conference for the solution of putting 
excess compostable material in the trash.>

As to the kitchen waste.  For visual reasons, you probably want 
to put a layer of something else over the top of it.

Don’t worry, you will still get nice compost even it it does not 
heat up.

The rose bushes.  Note that when roses are put in compost, the 
thorns take a lot longer to decompose than the rest of it, which
can leave some nasty suprises in your compost if you handle it.

If you need more room in your compositor, you might try digging 
a 12 to 18 inch hole underneath your compositor.  It looks the same
but there is extra room down there, and the worms can get it easily.

Is what you doing OK?  --  Sounds good to me.

Relax!  Don’t worry!  Enjoy!  Your doing fine.

		Bryce

Bryce Grevemeyer	Phone:	(313) 845-5589
Ford ETC C370		FAX:	(313) 845-3799
17000 Rotunda Drive	EMail:	[email-masked]
Dearborn, Michigan 48121-6010

---

From: [email-masked] (Topsoil)
Date: 28 Mar 1995 12:46:16 -0500

Hi Anne --

I am convinced that one of the best sources of information on composting
is the experience of others around who've done it in the past.  I'd
strongly recommend seeking out a friend or acquaintance who can do a "home
visit" and check out your pile up close.

In my own experience, I think that there are only a few things that one
can do "wrong" to a compost pile, and most of those are easily corrected. 
For instance, if your pile is dry it may not decompose quickly (I'll bet
it doesn't dry out much in Philly -- did you make it the "consistency of a
wrung out sponge" when you built the pile, by adding water if necessary?).
 I have used manure and leaves in my system for a while -- it's sort of a
box, with two parts to it.  I add my kitchen scraps to one side during the
summer, and let the other side decompose.  During the winter the process
is reversed.  Of course, since decomposition (here in Colorado, anyway) is
quite slow in the winter, the "winter pile" is really more of a
Fall/Winter/Spring pile.  For the slow composting that occurs with my
small quantities of materials, it helps for me to have two piles going at
once.  That way, I can let one finish (and use it in the garden) while I
am building the other.

To keep moisture in, I have a scrap of old carpet on top of the piles. 
While the manure can get things to heat up a bit when the pile is first
built, the heat doesn't last long.  As soon as it's cool enough, redworms
migrate over from the other pile, and begin to accelerate the
decomposition of all of the stuff in the pile.  I strongly recommend
redworms!

The reason for building a pile in layers is to provide aeration to the
pile (air gets into the pile through the coarse layers, and quick
decomposition depends on having oxygen available to the decomposing
organisms).  If you could easily and thoroughly mix all of your
ingredients at the outset, the coarse materials (if you had an adequate
supply of them) would still allow enough air into the pile, but it may
take more time than it's worth to mix everything thoroughly at the outset.
 Let the ingredients get mixed when you turn the pile.  So, when you turn
the pile, don't worry at all about preserving layers.

Good luck!

E Johnson

---

From: [email-masked] (Topsoil)
Date: 28 Mar 1995 12:49:46 -0500

Oops, I forgot something...

Anne, sounds like your process of removing only the finished compost, and
sending the unfinished back for another round, is a good idea.  I have to
do that quite a bit, although having a two-bin system has eliminated much
of the hassle.

--E Johnson