Subject: The Herbfaq - part 2 of 2 (fwd)

From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:08:13 -0500

________________________________________________
Lawrence F. London, Jr. - [email-masked] 
------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:31:39 +0200
From: Henriette Kress <[email-masked]>
Subject: The Herbfaq - part 2 of 2

==========
6.0 Apprenticeships offered lately
-----
Howie Brounstein, Columbines and Wizardry Herbs, Inc.
<[email-masked]>
-----
Michael Moore, Southwest School of Botanical Medicine.
His offer is found by ftp at sunSITE.unc.edu, as outlined in 
(7.1) below. Look for SWSBM.School_Catalogue_ASCII; It's 12343 bytes,
so we won't include it here.

While you're there, get the .jpg -pictures.  And have a good look around
the other goodies that are offered on site. 

If you are not a beginner, get the Herbal Materia Medica, the Herbal
Repertory, the Herbal/Medical Dictionary, the Herbal-Medical
Contraindications, the Specific Indications, and the Herbal Tinctures,
as well. 

These are summaries of how to prepare and use plants you already
know in ways you already know. 

==========
7.0 Check these sites:
-----
Among the goodies you'll find the AFH archives.

==========
7.1 Medicinal Herb Archives at sunSITE.unc.edu
-----
WAIS (also available via telnet, follow login instructions)
World Wide Web (lynx available via telnet for vt100 users)
  URL for the herb archives is:
  gopher://sunsite.unc.edu/11/.pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/
Anonymous FTP
Ftpmail (Send e-mail to [email-masked] for helpfile on ftpmail usage)
Gopher:
Link-Info:
Name=Alternative Healthcare Information
Type=1
Port=70
Path=1/../.pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare
Host=calypso.oit.unc.edu
Go to these menus:
The Worlds of sunSITE
  browse sunSITE archives
    academic
      medicine
        alternative healthcare
          herbs

Anonymous ftp:
  ftp sunSITE.unc.edu
  Login: anonymous
  Password: (enter your Internet E-Mail ID)
  cd pub/academic
  cd pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare
  [Herb Research Foundation & Southwest School of Botanical Medicine are here]
  cd herbs

For more information contact:
  Lawrence F. London, Jr.
  [email-masked]

-----
HINT: the alt.folklore.herb archives have moved. You'll nowadays find them
under .../alternative-healthcare/herbs/discussion-groups/... ; so you can 
sharpen your ftp tools and dig in. (I hadn't been able to access afh-
archives for a while because I tried the old address.)  ;) 
-----
Contents of the Medicinal Herb Archives - partial list - 3/16/1995

drwxr-xr-x  2 rmccaleb      512 Mar 14 10:21 Herb-Research-Foundation
drwxr-xr-x 10 london        512 Feb  1 21:57
                                Southwest-School-of-Botanical-Medicine
drwxr-xr-x  3 london        512 Jan 10 22:17 herbal-medicine
-rw-r--r--  1 london     127549 Jan 22  1992 herbdata.zip
drwxr-xr-x 14 london        512 Feb  1 21:54 herbs
-rw-r--r--  1 london      75981 Jan 10  1993 herbs001.zip

Herb-Research-Foundation:      (not for ftp, but for www) (I tried it...)
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb    13803 Feb  8 11:00 Immunity_boosters
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb    12205 Feb  8 18:21 Travel-Herbs
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb     2516 Feb  8 17:54 Welcome-HRF-info
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb     1498 Feb 21 13:58 Welcome.html
-rw-r--r--  1 rmccaleb    81514 Feb  7 15:29 arctosta.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb    13479 Mar 14 10:21 globe.gif
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb      878 Feb 21 13:00 hib-sml.gif
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb     3574 Feb 21 13:01 hrfinfo.htm
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb     3574 Feb 21 13:27 hrfinfo.html
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb    18667 Oct 25 00:41 immune.rtf
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb     1530 Feb 21 13:13 join.htm
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb    18758 Feb 21 13:14 planet_2.gif
-rw-rw-r--  1 rmccaleb    17275 Oct 25 00:41 travel.rtf

Southwest-School-of-Botanical-Medicine:    Here are the files by M.Moore!
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         36596 Jan 24 04:33 HERBAL-MEDICAL.CONTRAINDICATIONS
-rw-r--r--  1 london        273 Jan  6 18:35 INDEX
-rw-r--r--  1 london     178287 Dec 22 11:44 Med_Herb_Glossary_1.1
drwxr-xr-x  7 london       2560 Jan  7 07:03 Medicinal-Plant-Images
-rw-r--r--  1 london        151 Jan  6 18:35 README
-rw-r--r--  1 london      12343 Dec 27 13:54 SWSBM.School_Catalogue_ASCII
drwxr-xr-x  3 london       3072 Jan  6 12:18 herb-pictures
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 29 21:50 herbal-repertory
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 29 21:50 herbal-tinctures
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 29 21:50 herbal.materia-medica
drwxr-xr-x  6 london        512 Dec 29 21:50 mac
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 29 21:50 specific-indications

herbs:
drwxr-xr-x  6 london        512 Jan  5 07:03 LYSATOR-ftpsite
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Nov 17 06:47 RFI
drwxr-xr-x  5 london        512 Dec 30 21:19 discussion-groups
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Nov  7 13:14 faqs
drwxr-xr-x  2 london       1024 Mar 12 12:48 general
-rw-r--r--  1 london      11804 Dec 31 20:54 herb-faqs
drwxr-xr-x  6 london       1024 Feb 14 09:24 herbal-medicine
drwxr-xr-x  2 london       1536 Mar 12 13:18 literature
drwxr-xr-x  2 london       1024 Jan 28 22:56 mail-order
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2673 Jan 28 15:26 medherb-info
drwxr-xr-x  4 london       1024 Oct 23 18:15 mini-databases
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Mar 12 13:17 net-resources
drwxr-xr-x  2 london       1024 Jan 29 21:22 newinfo

herbs/LYSATOR-ftpsite:
-rw-r--r--  1 london        119 Jan  4 13:56 INDEX
-rw-r--r--  1 london        263 Jan  4 13:58 README
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Jan  1 22:12 general
drwxr-xr-x  4 london       1024 Jan  1 22:22 medicinal
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Jan  1 22:36 miscellaneous

herbs/discussion-groups:      This is what you were looking for-
                              The AFH -archives!
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec  8 23:06 1993
drwxr-xr-x  3 london        512 Mar  9 22:38 1994
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Mar  9 22:38 alt.folklore.herbs
  
-----
Accessing Culinary and Ornamental Herb Archives at sunSITE.unc.edu
-----
WAIS (also available via telnet, follow login instructions)
World Wide Web (lynx available via telnet for vt100 users)
  URL for gardening & herb information is:
  gopher://sunsite.unc.edu/11/.pub/academic/agriculture
           /sustainable_agriculture/gardening/
Ftpmail (Send e-mail to [email-masked] for helpfile on ftpmail usage)
Gopher:
Name=Alternative Healthcare Information
Type=1
Port=70
Path=1/../.pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture
Host=calypso.oit.unc.edu
Go to these menus:
The Worlds of sunSITE
  Sustainable Agriculture Information
    gardening
  -or-
  browse sunSITE archives
    academic
      agriculture
        sustainable_agriculture
          gardening
Anonymous ftp:
  ftp sunSITE.unc.edu
  Login: anonymous
  Password: (enter your Internet E-Mail ID)
  cd pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/gardening

For more information contact:
  Lawrence F. London, Jr.
  [email-masked]

==========
7.2 Rob Bidleman's server
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ftp ftp.crl.com cd /users/ro/robbee/Herb
http://www.c2.org/~robbee/herbal.html

==========
8.0 Mailing lists

==========
8.1 The Herblist, the Medicinal and Aromatic Plants discussion list
-----
To post to the list: write an article and send it to:
  [email-masked]
To subscribe: write to [email-masked] with the following text:
  SUBscribe HERB <your full name>
If you only wish the digest (to get all posts for the previous day in
one email message) you can add another line
  SET HERB DIGEST

==========
8.2 The Aromatherapy list
----
To post to the list: write an article and send it to:
  [email-masked]
To subscribe: write to [email-masked] with the following text:
  subscribe aromatherapy-l
or, if you want it to another address than the one you're at when
subscribing:
  subscribe aromatherapy-l [email-masked]

==========
8.3 The Holistic list: Holistic Discussion Group
----
To post an article: write an article and send it to:
  [email-masked]
To subscribe: write to [email-masked] with the following text:
  SUBscribe HOLISTIC <your full name>
If you only wish the digest you can add another line:
  SET HOLISTIC DIGEST

==========
8.4 The Kombucha list
-----
To subscribe: write to [email-masked] with the following text:
  SUBSCRIBE
(If this doesn't work try HELP to the same address.)

==========
9.0 Related newsgroups
-----
You might want too check
  misc.health.alternative
  rec.gardens
  rec.food.preserving
  bionet.plants
  sci.med.*

==========
10.0 Standard Herb Disclaimer ([email-masked])
-----
              CAUTIONS ABOUT HERBAL MEDICINE:

There is nothing about herbs that automatically makes them
non-toxic just because they are natural.  Ever hear of
deadly nightshade or poisonous mushrooms?  They are drugs,
like other drugs, and should be approached with the same caution.

This means, for example, that pregnant women should be as
careful about medicinal herbs as they are about conventional
medicines.  Some medicinal herbs are clearly linked to birth
defects. People on certain medications, like anti-coagulants or
psychiatric drugs, can have serious problems from interactions
between the herb and the medicine they're taking. In the US, herb
labels do not list information about side effects, dangers and
contraindications on the label (which I think they should).  Many
physicians are not well informed about herbs, and so you cannot
always rely on your doctor to know about potential problems. And
if you have or suspect you have a serious illness, it is very
important to be under a doctor's care.  Self diagnosis is not always
accurate and self treatment doesn't always work.

I believe it is vital for any person who wishes to try herbs to
be very well read before attempting them. I strongly recommend _The
Honest Herbal_ by Varro Tyler to anyone who is considering or using
herbal medicines.  It is the one herb book that I have ever found that
relies solely on scientific studies instead of anecdotes *and* which
provides references.  Tyler himself has impressive credentials, being a
tenured professor of pharmacognosy (the branch of pharmacy that deals
with herbal medicine) in the school of pharmacy at Purdue University.

I personally regard herbal medicine as useful primarily in two
situations:

1) when a basically healthy person uses an herbal compound
for a short, self limiting condition such as a cold or the
flu, where over the counter remedies would normally be
appropriate.

and

2) in the case of serious illness, where no effective standard
treatment exists and where there is some evidence from the
scientific literature that a particular herbal compound may help.
An example of this would be the use of silymarin (an extract from
milk thistle) in the treatment of cirrhosis of the liver.  In this
kind of situation, I regard it as extremely important that the
person be under the close supervision of a physician well versed
in the disease in question and who has reviewed the available studies
on the herb to be used.

Herbal medicine has some very big problems.  The most important is
probably that herbs often have not been subjected to thorough
testing.  Even when an herb has many studies published about it,
almost always the studies are on animals; human studies are quite
unusual.  Studies to determine whether the compound can cause birth
defects are vanishingly rare, as are studies to determine whether
the compound can cause cancer.  Relying on traditional folklore is
not much help; very obvious or dramatic adverse effects may be
caught this way, but it doesn't tell us much about either long
term effects or problems caused in only a small percentage of people.

Another major problem is that the amount of pharmacologically
active ingredient available varies widely from plant to plant, so
accurately regulating dosage is difficult. The pharmacologically active
ingredient may also occur in conjuction with other toxic compounds.
Examples of toxic agents often found in herbs include pyrrolizadine
alkaloids (very toxic to the liver and cause both benign and malignant
liver tumors); coumarins (which decrease the ability of the
blood to clot); and allergens.  The latter can be quite important
to people who are allergic to ragweed; some herbs  in the
ragweed family (chamomile and yarrow are examples) can cause
severe allergic reactions in these folks.)  Most companies do
not list the source of their herbs or how they were grown.  Pesticide
contamination is a possibility and heavy metal contamination of some
herbs has been reported in the scientific literature.

Because of the problems mentioned above, I believe it is often better
to rely on an extracted and standardized compound (conventional drugs)
when possible.  However, some of the active ingredients of herbs cannot
be found in this form.

Yet another problem is with herb labelling.  Very few herbal
medicines marketed in the US have both the Latin name of the
herb and an expiration date marked on the bottle.  Often,
this is deliberate: fraud is rampant among companies marketing
herbs.  One brand that does have good labelling is Nature's Way.
Alternatively, if you live in a city with a large Chinese, Japanese
or Korean population, you can try the herb sellers in that
district.  I've personally found the herb sellers in Chinatown
here in L.A. to be very honest and knowledgable (although language
is often a problem, alas.  Gotta learn to speak Chinese one of
these days.)  :)

If you decide, after your research, to try herbal medicines,
you may wish to consult a trained herbalist.  Unfortunately, in
the US anyone can hang out a shingle and call themselves an
herbalist. Lots of these people have no idea what they're doing.
I have found practitioners of traditional Chinese medicine to be
the best trained.  I don't accept the model that traditional Chinese
practitioners use to explain the effects of herbs (yin/yang,
hot/cold, damp/dry, etc.).  I also have problems with the
amount of unsupported anecdotal info mixed in with scientific
studies. But traditional Chinese doctors treat herbs with a lot of
respect and caution.  They are well up on the side effects
and counterindications.

And finally, very few herb books contain dosage information.
I have *a lot* of problems with Michael Tierra's herb books.  I
don't accept the medical models he endorses (traditional Chinese
medicine and Ayurveda).  I also don't like the fact that Tierra
doesn't distinguish between scientifically validated information
and folklore.  But Tierra's books are among the very few herbal
medicine books that discuss dosage.  Just making up a weak tea
is usually not enough to get a pharmacologically effective dose.
Tierra is the author of _The Way Of Herbs_ and _Planetary Herbology_.

Warning: Tierra's books should be used as supplemental sources
only and never as your primary source of information on herbs.  I
have spotted several places where he has left out important information
on toxicity.

==========
THE END
==========
--
Henriette Kress              [email-masked]
       Happy in Helsinki, Finland.