Subject: Re: garden+dog=yikes!

From: Susan Sanders <[email-masked]>
Date: 28 Mar 1995 20:59:04 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> Jeff Bash, [email-masked]
writes:
>branches to make a sort of fence/border for one area.  He was delighted

I don't think anything's going to discourage him besides a real fence. 
This doesn't have to be fancy or expensive.  You should be able to buy a
bundle (that's not the right word; reel? whatever . . . ) of welded-wire
fencing and some metal u-channel pound-in style fence posts for a
reasonable amount of cash.  Fasten the end with something you can easily
remove to let yourself in and out.               -Sue Sanders

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 95 15:25:10 -0600

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Jeff Bash) writes:
> 
> Does anyone out there have suggestions about having a largish, exuberant
> young dog and my veggie garden coexist in the same yard?  I'm looking for
> ideas (low maintenance, please) on how to discourage him from lying in,
> tromping on, charging around in my newly dug and planted areas.  There is
> plenty of grass for him--which, it appears, is not NEARLY as much fun as
> the areas I'm working on.  Any natural repellents?  I tried using bent
> with his new toy; lifespan: 12 hours.  Any suggestions would be greatly
> appreciated.

Many moons ago, my father brought home a springer spaniel pup.  Dog and
garden seemed to coexist nicely for awhile, except when I was actually
working in the garden.  Then fur-face had to be there too.  After 
lessons on "down" and "sit" (which don't take with the average 12 week old
pup), and hosing him in the face (he loved it!) and throwing rolled
newspapers at him (he didn't love that), we got to a truce.  He stayed
out most of the time except if I was there too.

Then my mother taught him to retrieve a green tennis ball.  Lots of fun!
We came home one night and found he had retrieved all the green tennis balls 
off the tomato plants, and the funny long green tennis balls off the
cucumber plants, and the funny purple balls off the eggplant and the....
well... you get the idea.

The garden was fenced the next evening.

If you detest the look of a fenced garden, there are now "invisible
fences": you bury a wire around the garden, and the dog wears a 
reciever on his collar.  If he gets too close to the buried wire, 
the reciever yelps at him or administers a shock.  Works quite well
with many dogs, but won't keep out the neighbor's dog, and it also
won't stop a dog who is going so fast he runs right over the wire,
collects his punishment, and then can't get back out of the garden.

If you're interested in invisible fences, most pet care catalog
companies like Smith and Foster or Omaha Vaccine carry them.

Kay Klier  [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Flyinggoat)
Date: 28 Mar 1995 20:15:15 -0500

try chicken wire around the plants.  (Or around the dog)  =)
Betty Cunningham([email-masked])
illustrator, animator, and likes to collect dead things

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From: [email-masked] (Jeff Bash)
Date: 28 Mar 1995 16:41:43 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (Nita Richard)
Date: 29 Mar 1995 12:01:55 -0500

>with his new toy; lifespan: 12 hours.  Any suggestions would be greatly

I installed an invisible fence around my garden and placed the battery 
powered collar on my dalmation.  Once he got zapped a couple of times
he knew what his limits were.  It worked great, he was happy to be out
in the yard with me while I worked in the garden, but I didn't have to 
worry about turning my back on him and him destroying all of my hard work.
I highly recommend the fences.

-- 
Nita Richard 
Georgia Institute of Technology, "Home of the 1996 Olympic Village"             Atlanta Georgia, 30332-0181
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!nr5
Internet: [email-masked] (404)853-0050

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From: [email-masked] (Chad James Segura)
Date: 29 Mar 1995 19:16:15 GMT

John Bachman ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In rec.gardens [email-masked] (Jeff Bash) said: 
:  
:  
: >Does anyone out there have suggestions about having a largish, exuberant
: young  
: >dog and my veggie garden coexist in the same yard? 
:  
: I use mouse traps to keep Bo, my golden, out of the garden (and off the
: couch).  After a couple of snaps I don't even have to set them.  Just throw
: 'em out there and she shys away. 
: -- 
: John Bachman 

Besides Kay Klier's suggestions, I would also consider giving Fido
his own play bed.  You could indicate which of the beds it is okay for
him to play in.

Chad

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From: [email-masked] (John Bachman)
Date: 28 Mar 1995 19:14:30 -0500

>Does anyone out there have suggestions about having a largish, exuberant
young  
>dog and my veggie garden coexist in the same yard? 
 
I use mouse traps to keep Bo, my golden, out of the garden (and off the
couch).  After a couple of snaps I don't even have to set them.  Just throw
'em out there and she shys away. 
-- 
John Bachman

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From: [email-masked] (rrrrrrrrrr)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:04:37 +0100

> with his new toy; lifespan: 12 hours.  Any suggestions would be greatly

Our retriever could destroy anything in less than one hour. In desperation
we rang an obediance school. They suggested planting small balloons just
under the soil surface hence when your doggy goes to dig or cross into the
vege patch the noise of the popping balloons will scare him away. Of
course it should take the animal a couple of turns of standing on the
balloons before it finally gives it totally up. 

Unfortunately our retriever was very cunning and the only way to stop the
destruction (he was destructive because we couldn't give him enough time -
all our fault) was to find him a new home. He's now settled with an older
lady who has a close family. He lives inside, watches tv from the lounge,
sleeps on the eldest daughters bed, goes for walks 3 times a day and goes
swimming on the weekend. We miss him but he's in heaven and we have our
garden back.

Goodluck
Marnie Nelson
Environmental Science
Murdoch University
Murdoch  WA  6150
Australia

Email: [email-masked].

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From: [email-masked] (CT)
Date: 30 Mar 1995 15:52:31 GMT

>with his new toy; lifespan: 12 hours.  Any suggestions would be greatly

When I got my lab mix dog from the shelter, he was 5 years old and very
eager to please (dysfunctional family life previously?).

I "trained" him to "go around" my gardens. I figured that dogs are very
"educable", even if it takes *repeating*.  Use the *same* words and gestures
over and over and over.  Don't get mad, be firm (hard to do when you see 
your about-to-bloom 'blue springs' delphinium knocked over).

Your neighbors might think your nuts, the dog won't.  Keep repeating, 
gesturing, letting him know, clearly,what you expect from him.
He wants to be with you and have you for a buddy -- that's why he 
joins you in the garden. Dogs *need* a "mission".  Best if you give 
him one you choose. His mission will be to (1) mind Jeff 
(2)"go A-R-O-U-N-D", said while you're gesturing "around", out of 
your garden w/ your arm(s); (3)"get ball".  You might urge him 
(i.e. train/force/make) lie down just outside the perimeter of your 
garden.  But don't forget to show him ("smell this, Fido. Look, a slug")
things occasionally so they'll be something in it for him to "mind".

Young doggies are esp. rambunctious; all over the place. Respect your pup's
curiousity and energy, but also let him know you're the boss. (Nice boss).
*If* you resort to tying him on a tie out, be sure to give him attention.
Maybe walk around your garden with him (have him on his lead), saying "NO"
when he attempts to mosey into your greenery.  Good luck. Sorry this is 
long.  Just remember, keep patience, keep repeating, be firm.

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From: [email-masked] (Dick Gilman)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 17:45:03 GMT

>his own play bed.  You could indicate which of the beds it is okay for
Not a good idea.  Dogs cannot really distinguish between good
plants and bad plants if you have daisies in one bed that are ok
for him to tear they are also, in a dogs mind, ok to tear up in any
bed.  Dogs use scents to mark territories.  Again we use the
electric collars and other than a large unsightly fence found it
is the only way to keep a dog out!!!  Again if you have hunter
breed dogs they are naturally going to go after the butterflys and
birds in the garden.  It is their NATURE to do these things.  So
either get a dog that is not in their nature to hunt, poodle, grey
hound etc etc or get an electric fence,

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From: [email-masked] (Bob Kodrzycki)
Date: 29 Mar 1995 08:19:48 -0500

Susan Sanders ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]> Jeff Bash, [email-masked]
: writes:
: >branches to make a sort of fence/border for one area.  He was delighted

: I don't think anything's going to discourage him besides a real fence. 
: This doesn't have to be fancy or expensive.  You should be able to buy a
: bundle (that's not the right word; reel? whatever . . . ) of welded-wire
: fencing and some metal u-channel pound-in style fence posts for a
: reasonable amount of cash.  Fasten the end with something you can easily
: remove to let yourself in and out.               -Sue Sanders

I missed the original posting of this article but it seems to me that you 
are interested in effective, low cost dog control.  Have you considered 
"invisible" fencing (also known as underground or radio fence)?  The 
system is effective and you can easily restrict a dog's access on a 1/4 
acre or larger lot for under $100.  A radio transmitter is attached to a 
wire that you run around the area in which you want to contain or exclude 
your dog.  The dog wears a transmitter on its collar that gives an 
audible warning and then an electric shock (termed a "mild correction" by 
the manufacturer) when the dog approaches the wire.  It really works and 
you don't have to put up an ugly or expensive fence.

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (John Bachman)
Date: 28 Mar 1995 19:14:30 -0500

young

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From: [email-masked] (rrrrrrrrrr)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:04:37 +0100

Goodluck
Marnie Nelson
Environmental Science
Murdoch University
Murdoch  WA  6150
Australia

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From: [email-masked] (CT)
Date: 30 Mar 1995 15:52:31 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (Dick Gilman)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 17:45:03 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (Bob Kodrzycki)
Date: 29 Mar 1995 08:19:48 -0500

[email-masked]

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From: "curt carlson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 13:12:43 PST

>Kay Klier  [email-masked]

Am I ever glad I took the time and trouble to go through obedience training
classes with my dog!  I've never had a problem with our dog bothering our
gardens, but I've taken the time (really very little) to make it clear what
the boundaries are.  It helps to have a clear 'edge' to your garden, to help
the poor pup make the distinction between yard (good) and garden (bad) -
raised beds have helped, I'm sure, in that regard.  Our dog also knows what
part of the yard is appropriate for her to do her "business", so damage to
the turf (fertilizer burns) are localized to a back corner.

I would guess that in most cities Community Education offers obedience
training at a very reasonable price, and it's even fun!  

Curt Carlson
[email-masked]
Perseverance furthers.
I Ching

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From: [email-masked] (Ute R.Willmore)
Date: 31 Mar 1995 22:24:42 GMT

Dick Gilman ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Not a good idea.  Dogs cannot really distinguish between good
: plants and bad plants if you have daisies in one bed that are ok
: for him to tear they are also, in a dogs mind, ok to tear up in any

True, true. 
: bed.  Dogs use scents to mark territories.  Again we use the
: electric collars and other than a large unsightly fence found it
: is the only way to keep a dog out!!!  Again if you have hunter

Personally, I have never found it necessary to use a collar, or an
electric fence. Most dogs can be taught to stay away from a certain area,
without the use of shock collars and the like.

: breed dogs they are naturally going to go after the butterflys and
: birds in the garden.  It is their NATURE to do these things.  So
: either get a dog that is not in their nature to hunt, poodle, grey
: hound etc etc or get an electric fence, 

Greyhounds ARE hunters, that's what makes them such great racedogs. They
like to chase critter and tend to have a high pary instinct. As for the
hunting breed, most retrievers are VERY easy to train and several
excellent methids have been suggested already. With a little patience
and consistency a dog can learn to respect the boundary of your garden.
My current dog has, so has a friend of mines who visits frequently, and
so did my last dog (who was a beagle, a breed known to be stuborn and
difficult to train). 

So, for those of you with dogs in the garden, spend a few hours teaching
the critter what the boundary is and he/she will learn to stay away.
Only the most difficult cases require a shock collar or an expensive
electric fence. And if you have to resort to that, you might to much
better getting soem help from an obedience instructor.

JMO
Ute

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From: [email-masked] (Ute R.Willmore)
Date: 31 Mar 1995 22:24:42 GMT

True, true. 

JMO
Ute