Subject: Re: Rookie Question: Mulch or Bag the Lawn?

From: [email-masked]
Date: 22 Mar 1995 19:12:42 GMT

In <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Dave Clark) writes:
[...]  
>This, of course, assumes that you mow the lawn frequently (cutting no more 
>than 1/3 length of grass).  If the grass is high then you are probably better 
[...]
>Good advice.  Also the best time to fertalize is in the fall.  And mow the 
>grass tall - this promotes deep root growth, reduces the need for watering, 
>and helps prevent weed growth.
[...]
>Dave Clark - Data General Corp. Westboro, MA

As I understand - these two previous unrelated points are what makes a good
lawn.  I was told that cutting more than 1/3 the height causes shallow roots.

CRAIG

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From: [email-masked] (Bob Haar)
Date: 22 Mar 1995 22:00:27 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, CliftonH <[email-masked]> writes:
|>I am a fairly new home owner and would like to improve the looks of my yard.
|>I live in Delaware and I believe the grass is mostly fescue (sp?).  I decided
|>to dethatch the yard this year because there was a lot of old brown grass
|>on the surface.  I never imagined that I would fill 20 forty gallon trash bags
|>of dead brown grass (my yard is about 9000 sq ft).  Is all this dead grass
|>from the mulching that I did last year (or several years worth from previos
|>owners)?  Or is that normal for grass?  Which will promote a health full yard
|>of grass?

The whole idea of thatch is one of the biggest scams ever pulled off 
by the "lawn care" industry. In any reasonably healthy yard, the clipping
wil decomposed and return important nutrients to the soil. 

By all means, consider a mulching mower. Otherwise, you have to continually
fertilize the lawn to make up for the nutrients you are carrying away 
in the clippings. A mulched lawn will also be better able to stand up
to dry spells without watering.

I do pick up the clippengs when I mow in early spring and late fall because
of the volume of leaves and old grass that is there, but this is usually only
2 or 3 times per year and the clippings go into my compost pile.

-- 
  	Robert Haar               InterNet : [email-masked] 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. R & D Center
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.

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From: [email-masked] (Christine Owens)
Date: 22 Mar 1995 02:37:31 GMT

In <[email-masked]> CliftonH <[email-masked]> writes: 

>
>I am a fairly new home owner and would like to improve the looks of my yard.
>I live in Delaware and I believe the grass is mostly fescue (sp?).  I decided
>to dethatch the yard this year because there was a lot of old brown grass
>on the surface.  I never imagined that I would fill 20 forty gallon trash bags
>of dead brown grass (my yard is about 9000 sq ft).  Is all this dead grass
>from the mulching that I did last year (or several years worth from previos
>owners)?  Or is that normal for grass?  Which will promote a health full yard
>of grass?
>Thanks.
>

If your grass has a good base, a mulching mower will create
tiny pieces of grass that rapidly biodegrade, adding back
nitrogen into the lawn.  You shouldn't have any appreciable
amount of thatch using this technique.  You can also use
a bagging mower, or rake and bag; but DON'T send that
grass to the dump!  Add it to your compost pile and make
your own fertilizer.

Chris Owens

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From: [email-masked] (Dave Clark)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:34:07

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Steve Offiler) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Steve Offiler)
>Subject: Re: Rookie Question: Mulch or Bag the Lawn?
>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:13:26

>In article <[email-masked]> CliftonH <[email-masked]> writes:
>>From: CliftonH <[email-masked]>
>>Subject: Rookie Question: Mulch or Bag the Lawn?
>>Date: Sun, 19 Mar 95 17:42:38 -0500

>1)  I think it might be possible that the amount of dead brown grass you 
>pulled up is from a single year.  I have a fairly healthy lawn of Tall Fescue 
>and other grasses, roughly the same size as yours.  In the summertime, each 
>time I cut (weekly or better) I end up with about 200lbs of clippings.  
>'Course they're green and moist, and will shrink when dry, but the sheer 
>amount is startling.

>2)  Personally, I don't use a mulching mower, I bag the clippings.  This does 
>two things:  reduces thatch buildup related to undecomposed clippings; and 
>provides a wonderful "green" addition to my compost pile which in turn 
>provides nutrients for the flowers and veggies.

Lawn clippings do NOT build up thatch.  Thatch is a build up of surface roots 
caused by insufficient watering and or quick release fertilizers.  Mulched 
lawn clippings will decompose and build up the soil if left where they lie.  
This, of course, assumes that you mow the lawn frequently (cutting no more 
than 1/3 length of grass).  If the grass is high then you are probably better 
off bagging and composting.  I usually bag the first mowing of the year and 
again in the fall when the leaves fall. (easier than raking).  The rest of the 
year I let the clippings lie unless the grass grows too tall before I get a 
chance to mow it.  I have no thatch build up.

>3)  I aerate every year, in the spring.  You can rent these machines, or of 
>course pay a pro.  This cuts plugs of sod about 3/4" diameter, 2-3" long.  I 
>then fertilize with an organic slow-release product like Ringer's.  (Stay away 
>from the big companies' chemical products.)  The aeration allows the 
>fertilizer to get into the soil where it does the most good, provides 
>loosening of compacted soil surfaces, and gets air to the roots.  All in all 
>probably the best thing you can do for your lawn.

>4)  As mentioned above, I highly recommend composting rather than bagging 
your >debris, be it thatch or clippings or what have you.  I feel that it is 
>environmental high treason to lock nice organic matter into airtight plastic 
>bags so it can take up space, but not decompose, in a landfill.

I leave the clippings except where mentioned above.  I agree with the final 
high treason statement.
--------------------
Dave Clark - Data General Corp. Westboro, MA
[email-masked]

Opinions expressed are my own.  Any resemblance to other opinions
living or dead are purely coincidental.
--------------------

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From: Susan Sanders <[email-masked]>
Date: 22 Mar 1995 15:27:13 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> CliftonH, [email-masked]
>owners)?  Or is that normal for grass?  Which will promote a health full
yard

I've had very good lawns for about 20 years now without ever bagging
grass clippings.  I've never had a thatch problem.  Before you
de-thatched, was there a thick thatch layer that you could see?  If not,
what you removed in de-thatching was just the normal detritus from that
amount of lawn.  The only time thatch is a problem is if it forms a
thick, relatively impenetrable layer on top of the soil.  And the only
time you need to remove clippings from the lawn is if the grass is so
high when you mow it that the clippings sit in windrows on top of the
grass.               -Sue Sanders

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From: [email-masked] (Pat and George Kiewicz)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:44:21 GMT

CliftonH ([email-masked]) wrote:
: I am a fairly new home owner and would like to improve the looks of my yard.
: I live in Delaware and I believe the grass is mostly fescue (sp?).  I decided
: to dethatch the yard this year because there was a lot of old brown grass
: on the surface.  I never imagined that I would fill 20 forty gallon trash bags
: of dead brown grass (my yard is about 9000 sq ft).  Is all this dead grass
: from the mulching that I did last year (or several years worth from previos
: owners)?  Or is that normal for grass?  Which will promote a health full yard
: of grass?
: Thanks.

Thatch is an accumulation of dead stems and roots.  Fresh grass clippings
normally break down very quickly.  Unless your soil is totally lifeless,
the thatch removed has nothing to do with your practice of letting the
clippings stay on the grass.

The state extension service here in Michigan recommend core aeration every
1-2 years to control thatch.  They also recommend mulching the grass clippings.

Pat in Plymouth MI
-- 
                           ====================
        We do not speak for the Suburban Communications Corporation.
	The Suburban Communications Corporation does not speak for us.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 22 Mar 1995 19:12:42 GMT

[...]
[...]

CRAIG

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From: [email-masked] (Bob Haar)
Date: 22 Mar 1995 22:00:27 GMT

---

From: [email-masked] (Christine Owens)
Date: 22 Mar 1995 02:37:31 GMT

Chris Owens

---

From: [email-masked] (Dave Clark)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:34:07

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From: Susan Sanders <[email-masked]>
Date: 22 Mar 1995 15:27:13 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (Pat and George Kiewicz)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:44:21 GMT

Pat in Plymouth MI

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From: [email-masked] (Jonathan K Poulsen)
Date: 25 Mar 1995 19:39:22 GMT

: >This, of course, assumes that you mow the lawn frequently (cutting no more 
: >than 1/3 length of grass).  If the grass is high then you are probably better 
: [...]

For kentucky blue, red fescue, perennial ryegrass to achieve ideal root 
growth and shoot growth you should cut at 2". shorter mowing height 
equals shorter roots.

: >Good advice.  Also the best time to fertalize is in the fall.  And mow the 
: >grass tall - this promotes deep root growth, reduces the need for watering, 
: >and helps prevent weed growth.

when fertilizing in the fall, do it after the grass stops growing 
(becomes dormant) or you will go into the winter with succulent turf 
which is very susceptible to winter injury. Allowing the turf to grow 
long in the fall tends to increase winter diseases without significantly 
improving winter hardiness. So keep mowing until it stop growing.
 Lastly, weeds (that compete with grass) tend to stop growing in the summer
heat and won't try to bother us again until the spring. 
    
     On the topic of mulching/bagging... I would bag in the spring as 
this would eliminate a lot of weed seed from going back into the lawn. In 
the summer, save yourself the trouble of bagging and return the clippings 
(this also returns P & K). In the fall pick things up, what better way is 
there to remove the leaves, it also makes a good compost or garden
amendment. :-)

						Jonathan

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From: [email-masked] (AGodston)
Date: 2 Apr 1995 20:37:44 -0400

No need to bag that dead grass.  Believe the person who said to dump it in
the compost.  That's the best place for it!  No need to dethatch annually.
 Thatch is NOT dead grass.  It's the rhizomes of the grass roots that
create thatch.  The grass thats cut should be left on the lawn unless
there's so much that it creates clumps...then it should be raked!  Good
luck!

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From: [email-masked] (AGodston)
Date: 2 Apr 1995 20:37:44 -0400

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From: [email-masked] (AGodston)
Date: 2 Apr 1995 20:37:44 -0400