Subject: helleborus question -- urgent!

From: [email-masked] (Sahnny Johnson)
Date: 30 Mar 1995 09:29:38 -0600

I am in urgent need of information about the toxicity of helleborus 
(especially orientalis, foetiddus, and niger).  Can a very small piece 
of a leaf (like a 1/4 inch square) cause death in cats or dogs?  Or 
is it the roots? 

Please help.

Sahnny

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From: Don Martinson <[email-masked]>
Date: 30 Mar 1995 22:45:46 GMT

> I am in urgent need of information about the toxicity of helleborus 
All parts of helleborus are poisonous and for probably all species.  
With regard to amount that is poisonous, it would probably depend upon
the size of the animal. While a piece 1/4 inch square might not harm or
kill a large dog, it could be harmful to a kitten or puppy.   I would 
contact your veternarian as soon as possible.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 30 Mar 95 18:52:09 -0600

> of a leaf (like a 1/4 inch square) cause death in cats or dogs?  Or 

The only book I have handy at the moment is Kingsbury's Poisonous Plants
of the United States and Canada, 1964.  He states that Helleborus
species have been considered toxic since the time of Dioscorides,
but few documented cases of poisoning have been recorded.  Cornevin, C.,
1897. _Des Plantes Veneneuses_ is the source for quoted data on
toxicity.

A search of medline or agricola may be useful.

Try your local poison control center for information.  There is also a 
national animal poison control center at the vet school in Illinois.

Actual toxicity varies quite a bit depending on time of year and
growth stage of a plant, genotype, and environment.  My "gut
reaction" is that a piece of leaf 1.4" square is unlikely to be
deadly, even to a small animal, but that's a hunch, not a promise.

Kay Klier  [email-masked]

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From: Marianne Ahrne <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Apr 1995 09:03:25 GMT

I hope this reply is not too late to be of use to you: I just called
the national Poison Information Centre (don't you have one over there?).
The whole plant is very poisonous and a child that has eaten from any
hellebore, however little (they could supply no figures, though, or info
on pets) must be made to vomit or be given medicinal charcoal (I have
no idea if that's the correct English term!) and be brought to hospital 
as soon as possible.

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From: Marianne Ahrne <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Apr 1995 09:03:25 GMT

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From: Marianne Ahrne <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Apr 1995 09:03:25 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (John E. Fox)
Date: 10 Apr 1995 13:19:57 GMT

>of a leaf (like a 1/4 inch square) cause death in cats or dogs?  Or 

Not sure about the actual toxicity but I'm damn sure that
a bit of leaf that small would do no harm. It's in the supertoxic
league.
John Fox