Subject: Re: Is "Roundup" Safe Way To Kill A Lawn

From: [email-masked] (Dick Gilman)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 19:54:15 GMT

Well I think the question should be what type of grass do you want
to kill???  

IF you are trying to kill a warm weather grass such as zoysia or
centipede.  Then you could always fertilize it now so the stress
will kill it.  

Warm weather grasses fescue etc.  You could fertilize it in the
summer and again let the weather and stress kill it!!

The big thing with roundup is you have to make sure the plant is
actively growing!!  Spraying roundup on a plant that is dormant
will not kill it!!!  So make sure your plant is actively growing
make sure it is not going to rain!!! Within two days of applying
roundup and your lawn should be dead within two weeks.

---

From: [email-masked] (Ken Toews)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 20:44:09 GMT

The following is from a Monsanto flyer

-Microbes break down the active ingredient of roundup in the soil.
>>>>>>>>>>>>note: active ingredient<<<<<<<<

-Roundup wont leach into the soil.....because it binds tightly to
soil particles

-Roundup does not give off fumes or odours.

-Roundup works by stopping the formulation of certain amino acids
(protein building blocks) found only in plants.
>>>>>>>>>>>Roundup is still readily absorbed thru the skin, and
excreted thru the urine. If you like roundup you will say it causes
no problems on the way, if you dont like roundup this will concern
you<<<<<<<<<

-Roundup is safe to humans, pets and wildlife when used as
directed.

The following problems warrant concern when Roundup is considered
for use: 
 
 1. PERSISTENCE.  Although the claim is often made that Roundup is
inactivated rapidly in soil, it is more accurate to say that it is
usually absorbed to soil components.  A sandy loam treated with
glyphosate at recommended application rates (e.g., 2, 5, and 10
ug/g soil) was found to drastically reduce nitrogen fixation,
growth, and nodulation of subterranean clover/Rhizobium trifolium/
planted 120 days after glyphosate treatment. 
Glyphosate clearly remains active in soils that do not adsorb it
readily. 
 
Damage to vine maple and bigleaf maple was found to increase during
the second year following treatment with glyphosate, indicating
that glyphosate persists for extended periods in plants. 
 
2. PHYTOTOXICITY.  Because glyphosate is a nonselective herbicide,
any desired vegetation must be completely protected from glyphosate
drive, mist, or drip.  As Monsanto notes in its Rounup label guide,
"...minute quantities of this herbicide can cause severe damage or
destruction to the crop, plants, 
or other areas on which treatment was not intended." 
 
3. TOXICITY OF 'INERT' INGREDIENTS. 

There is no way of knowing what you are applying when you use
roundup. According to the 1994 Solaris Product Label guide
published
by Monsanto available at 1-800-225-2883, its free, page 150
Round up weed and grass killer is 99.04% Inert ingredients.

For a complete rundown on what that 99.04% of the product could be
get: The Secret Hazards of Pesticides: Inert Ingredients. It is
available for free from the New York State Department of Law.
1-518-474-5481

4. TESTING. [The article explains that testing on glyphosate by
itself is inadequate since the inert ingredients are very important
to making Roundup work.  Most test results are "unpublished and
developed by Monsanto or laboratories hired by Monsanto."  
Other points are made about lack of cancer testing and links to
"human damage" including "conjunctivitis (inflammation oft he
eyelid and eyeball mucous membrane), dermatitis (inflammation of
the skin), and severe flu-like symptoms following exposure to
glyphosate.  Of 143 pesticides reported for causing human illness
in California in 1986, glyphosate was fourth in the number of
incidents reported."  No further details on this statistic are 
given.  

A "Roundup Information Packet" containing a series of articles on
Roundup is available for $10.50 postpaid from NCAP; P.O. Box 1393;
Eugene OR 97440.  A file of these and additional glyphsate/Roundup
articles is maintained at NCAP; these can be copied at 10
cents/page. 
 
>From "Roundup, Vision, POEA, and 1,4-Dioxane: Why Full Formulations
Are the Problem." Written by Mary O'Brien--a staff scientist for
NCAP.  Vol. 9, No. 4 of the Journal of Pesticide Reform. 
 
When a letter by four Japanese emergency medicine professionals
appeared in the February 6, 1988 issue of the American medical
journal, The Lancet, a Washington toxicology consultant, David
Monroe, took note.  The Japanese authors were noting that an "inert
ingredient" in the herbicide Roundup (rather than the identified
"active" ingredient, glyphosate) accounts for the 
acute toxicity they had found in patients poisoned (some fatally)
by Roundup 

(JPR 8(1):30).  Symptoms included gastrointestinal ("GI" -ed) pain
and vomiting, swelling of the lungs and pneumonia, reduction of
blood pressure, clouding of consciousness, and red blood cell
destruction. 
 
The so-called "inert ingredient," polyoxyethyleneamine (POEA),
actually refers to a family of chemicals.  It is added to Roundup
and Vision herbicide formulations  as a surfactant, an ingredient
that will help evenly spread the active ingredient, glyphosate, on
target plants. 
 
The Japanese researchers noted that the acute lethal dose of POEA
is less than one-third (i.e., POEA is three times as toxic) that of
Roundup, and that POEA belongs to a class of surfactants that have
been reported to cause adverse GI and central nervous system
effects and damage to red blood cells. 
 
As POEA does not appear on the Roundup label (supposedly protected,
as an inert, from public disclosure under the U.S. pesticide
law...), Monroe first learned of its presence in Roundup through
the Lancet letter.  
 
Monroe recalled a U.S. EPA memorandum that discussed the presence
of 1,4-dioxane in two polyalkoxylated polyamine products ...
manufactured by the Henkel Corporation.  Knowing that POEA is a
polyalkoxylated amine, Monroe suspected that 1,4-dioxane might be
present as a contaminant of POEA.  
[ the article now describes the side effects of 1,4-dioxane, which
include liver and kidney damage, and cancer in laboratory animals. 
"The liver and kidney damage can occur regardless of the route of
1,4-dioxane exposure 
  (inhalation, oral ingestion, and/or skin application)."   This
section  concludes with this statement: 'The International Agency
for Research on   Cancer indicates that evidence is "sufficient" to
know that 1,4-dioxane  causes cancer in animals and the U.S EPA
regards 1,4-dioxane as a probable human carcinogen.'  
 
  Researchers in British Columbia went on to test Vision (Canada's
version of Roundup) checking for 1,4-dioxane contamination.  From
a 250ml sample, the  CANTEST lab detected 350 parts per million
1,4-dioxane using a purge and trap method.  That level is
equivalent to .35 percent.   now quoting again from the article: ] 
 
A 1982 EPA memo ... also discussed 1,4-dioxane as being present in
dichloroethyl ether.  The 1982 EPA memo ... had been prompted by
concern that 1,4-dioxane had been found in dichloroethyl ether at
0.42 percent and 0.55 percent.  Under "comments/recommendations" in
the memo, the EPA noted that 
the manufacturer of the contaminated dichloroethyl ether "reported
that its employees and customers were being notified of the
presence of 1,4-dioxane in dichloroethyl ether.  In addition, the
company reported that its current safety precautions include
'body-protective clothing and boots, eye protection, and monitoring
of air levels of dichloroethyl ether.'" 
 
Users of Roundup and Vision are not informed that the formulation
contains either POEA or 1,4-dioxane.  Roundup is widely used by
home owners wearing no particular protective clothing, and the
label merely states, "Avoid contact with eyes, skin, and clothing
because of possible (eye and skin) irritation." 
 
The presence of 1,4-dioxane in Vision (and presumably in Roundup)
is a classic example of the following: 
 
 1. Full formulations, "inert" ingredients, and contaminants, not
merely the so-called "active" ingredient, can cause cancer and
other adverse chronic effects; their exemption from testing for
chronic toxicity is indefensible.  
 2. The current classification by the EPA of POEA as a "List 3"
inert ingredient  ("inert of unknown toxicity"), subject neither to
listing on the label nor toxicological testing requirements, is
indefensible. 
  3. Estimating the toxicity of glyphosate alone is meaningless
when a full formulation (e.g., Roundup, Vision) containing POEA,
1,4-dioxane, and other unlisted ingredients and contaminants is the
mixture to which people and the environment will be exposed. 
 
What you don't know can hurt you. 
--
Ken Toews                     Yes son, when I was a boy, if you wanted to talk
Nepean Ontario Canada         to someone you actually looked them in the eye,
                              not that anyone actually liked it, but yup,
                              those rumours were true, people touched too....