Subject: help grass in my ground junipers

From: [email-masked] (Kay Livesay)
Date: 28 Mar 1995 20:00:45 GMT

Hi...

I am new to this group but I thought you all could help me.

I am renting a house and we are supposed to keep the landscape looking  
nice, which normally is not a pronlem because I like to garden.  My  
problem is I have this ground growing juniper (or something very similar)  
that has grass growing all through it.  I do not know how to kill the  
grass without killing the juniper...any suggestions????  I tried round up  
and almost killed the juniper...luckily for me it survived...help!!!  It  
is impossible to pull the grass out because it has woven its roots with  
the junipers roots....I am at a loss!!

Thanks in advance...

Kay Livesay
Riverside, CA.....it gets very hot here in the summer....

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From: [email-masked] (Jerry Heverly)
Date: 28 Mar 1995 21:12:24 -0800

Kay Livesay ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Hi...

: I am new to this group but I thought you all could help me.

: I am renting a house and we are supposed to keep the landscape looking  
: nice, which normally is not a pronlem because I like to garden.  My  
: problem is I have this ground growing juniper (or something very similar)  
: that has grass growing all through it.  I do not know how to kill the  
: grass without killing the juniper...any suggestions????  I tried round up  
: and almost killed the juniper...luckily for me it survived...help!!!  It  
: is impossible to pull the grass out because it has woven its roots with  
: the junipers roots....I am at a loss!!

: Thanks in advance...

: Kay Livesay
: Riverside, CA.....it gets very hot here in the summer....
	There are two selective herbicides available in California that 
will kill the Bermuda without injuring your junipers.  Scientifically(the 
small print on the label) they are sethoxydim and fluazifop.  The label 
names are Poast and some name like 'Grass Killer' respectively.
Jerry Heverly, Instr. of hort, Diablo Valley College, Pleasant Hill, CA
-- 

Jerry Heverly, Oakland, CA

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From: [email-masked] ()
Date: 29 Mar 1995 15:08:38 GMT

--
Kay Klier   [email-masked] wrote:

>Once you've got the main weed problem under control, use a good thick 
>mulch or landscape fabric between the shrubs to prevent further
>incursions.

Not from Texas are you?  I have weed block fabric surrounding my pool with
1.5" native stone 3" deep on top of that.  Then I have edging between the edge
of the fabric and the fence wherever there is grass on the other side of the 
fence.  Nothing except Roundup and handpulling the straying Bermuda has kept
it out of my rock bed.  In the front landscaping, we have metal edging that
is about 2" into the ground and about 2" of bark mulch/nuggets surrounding
all the shrubs.  Once a month in non- or slow growth months, I pull out the
incursions and once a week during the growth season, I pull out the runners.
Bermuda will grow over, under and through most anything.  I had a tree die
and when they pull it out, the grass roots were as deep as 18".  No wonder
this stuff is so hard to kill and to remove when adding new landscaping.

Regards, Bonnie
  Mama to Bobby 9/5/91 and Aunt Bonnie to Hayden 3/7/95
*******************************************************************
Email: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 95 17:58:46 -0600

> the junipers roots....I am at a loss!!

Hi, Kay!  (nice name!)  :-)

You can still use roundup on the grass, but you must target the
application carefully.  

I'm assuming that this is a grass with rhizomes (runners), so just a
heavy mulch probably won't work.

Get yourself some gloves:  You'll need a couple of pairs of rubber
gloves (like dishwashing gloves), and a cotton glove that is big enough to
fit over the rubber gloves.

Make the correct dilution of roundup (or use one that is pre-diluted),
  and put some in a small bottle or can that you can reach into... something
  like a tuna can is ideal.  You won't need a whole lot of roundup.

Also, mix up a bucket of water and a shovelful of soil.  (this is in
case of uncontrolled roundup spills).

Put on two layers of rubber gloves, and the cotton glove over the 
rubber glove on your "working hand" (probably right hand).  Dip the
thumb and forefinger of the cotton glove in the dilute roundup, 
squeeze it out a bit so you don't drip, and grab one of the grass
plants between thumb and forefinger, but don't touch your juniper.
Pull the grass gently but firmly through thumb and forefinger, so 
you're painting on a thin layer of roundup on the leaves.  You just
need to get the leaves damp, not soaked and running off.

Continue with the process, pulling the grass plants through the 
glove, and adding more roundup to the glove as it gets sorta dry.
If you spill roundup on something you want to keep, dump some muddy
water on it from your bucket.

When you're done treating the grasses, dump the cotton glove into
the muddy water bucket, and "wash" the outer pair of gloves with
muddy water.  Glyphosate, the active ingredient in roundup, binds
strongly to soil particles, and is inactivated.

Fish the cotton glove out of the bucket, and either dispose of it
in the trash, or give it a rinse and run it through the wash.

Now wash the outer rubber gloves (still on your hands) with 
dish detergent and water.  Peel off the outer gloves, and repeat
the soap and water wash on the inside gloves.  Take those off,
and wash your hands.

Glyphosate will take several weeks before you really notice the
grass is dying.  If, after several weeks, you notice you missed
some of the grasses, re-treat them.

Glyphosate is pretty non-toxic to mammals (less toxic than aspirin, 
in fact).  However, the commercial formulations like roundup and 
kleenup have "inert ingredients" that are unspecified, and which
are known to produce some pretty good skin rashes (hence the gloves
and the washing).

Kay Klier   [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 29 Mar 95 17:33:54 -0600

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] () writes:
> fence.  ...

Nope.  Iowa.  But I have successfully defended gardens in southern California
and Florida from bermudagrass (which is a real piker compared to some
of the more invasive grasses: I've seen a couple of types with rhizomes
that will go through an inch of concrete).

When I lived in southern California, before landscape fabric was invented,
I used old carpet, backing side up, as a barrier mulch, covered by
chopped yard debris, which looked better than the jute carpet backing.

In my aunt's yard in Florida, we installed a double thickness of black
landscape fabric, topped with 6" of shredded wood mulch.  That has keep
the bermuda from popping up in the azaleas.

I suspect that you've got a lot of light reaching the soil through the
coarse stone mulch (and plants are very good about tracking available
light).  That's probably inducing the rhizomes to form new vegetative
growth.

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From: [email-masked] ()
Date: 29 Mar 1995 15:08:38 GMT

--

Regards, Bonnie

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 95 17:58:46 -0600

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 29 Mar 95 17:33:54 -0600

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From: [email-masked] ()
Date: 30 Mar 1995 15:13:36 GMT

--
In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] writes:
|>Nope.  Iowa.  But I have successfully defended gardens in southern California
|>and Florida from bermudagrass (which is a real piker compared to some
|>of the more invasive grasses: I've seen a couple of types with rhizomes
|>that will go through an inch of concrete).
|>
|>When I lived in southern California, before landscape fabric was invented,
|>I used old carpet, backing side up, as a barrier mulch, covered by
|>chopped yard debris, which looked better than the jute carpet backing.
|>
|>In my aunt's yard in Florida, we installed a double thickness of black
|>landscape fabric, topped with 6" of shredded wood mulch.  That has keep
|>the bermuda from popping up in the azaleas.
|>
|>I suspect that you've got a lot of light reaching the soil through the
|>coarse stone mulch (and plants are very good about tracking available
|>light).  That's probably inducing the rhizomes to form new vegetative
|>growth.
|>
|>Kay Klier  [email-masked]
|>

I don't think it's light - When I've removed the bermuda from the pool area it
has grown under the fence about 2-3" below the surface of the soil which is
below the weed block fabric which is below 3" of rock and it's gone about 2-3'
in distance before popping up.  The stuff out front is growing up through
about 3-4" of bark mulch with about 1" of bark nuggets.  It's just very invasive
and will take over anything.

My neighbors did not keep the bermuda out of their landscaping beds and now
have these dwarf youpon hollies that are really just balls of bermuda grass.
It has completely covered and killed the hollies.  They finally did kill the
grass that was growing up the inside of the stop sign post.  This post is the
square post that has holes every inch on 2 sides.  The bermuda grew all the
way up (about 6') inside this post then started coming out all the holes.  It
was very silly looking.

I just spend about 15-20 minutes a week during the growing season and about
30-40 minutes a month during the non-growing season pulling it back if it's at
the edge or using roundup if it's too far into the bed.

Regards, Bonnie

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From: [email-masked] (Gary V. Deutschmann Sr.)
Date: 31 Mar 1995 03:48:18 GMT

Ornamec brand Fluazifop-P-butyl is designed just for the problem you have.

The nice part is it is available in a quart size.  Recommended dosage is
2/5 oz per gallon.

I have used it and it even killed 14 inch tall Rhizome Johnsongrass with no
side affects to the groundcover..

TTUL - de Gary

The wholesale price of Ornamec is 30 dollars per quart...

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From: [email-masked] (Gary V. Deutschmann Sr.)
Date: 31 Mar 1995 03:48:18 GMT

TTUL - de Gary