Subject: Old Roses Date: 30 Mar 92 16:57:07 GMT Here is a list of some of the main old rose varieties. I will follow it up with a selection of roses from each group. Species Roses These plants are the ancestors of all of the roses. Species refers to the plants as they have been found in the wild, un-changed and un-hybridized. For the most part, species roses are single petalled, and some are semi-double. The different varieties come in yellow, pink, rose madder red, and white. They are also very LARGE bushes, growing up to 50 feet or more. The Lady Banks rose is an example of a species rose. Most of them only bloom once a year. Gallicas The flowers of the gallicas are usually flat and fully double, the bushes have few thorns, and they are easy to raise from seed. The town of Provins, France, was for 600 years the center of a great rose industry based on _R. gallica officinalis_ (Red Rose of Lancaster) and some of its forms. This rose was believed to have medicinal properties. The Empress Josephine collected gallica roses for her garden in Malmaisson. Some of the roses in this family date back to the 12th and 13th centurys. Most of them are shades of rose madder and pink, and bloom only once in a season. Damasks This is the first old rose family to have ever-blooming flowers. It is possible that this rose was brought to Europe by the Greek traders in the main ports of the Mediterrainian between 800 and 600 B.C. The flowers are usually fully double, flowering in summer, and then again in fall. They are said to be repeat bloomers, instead of ever blooming. Their parentage is unknown, but it is believed that they come from a cross of Rosa gallica and an everblooming Asian species. An example of this rose family is Autumn Damask, or "Quatre Saisons". The petals of this rose were scattered under the feet of the Roman Emperors as they walked along in public. Centifolias Centifolia means 'hundred petals', and these roses are the most fully double of them all. The roses are very full, and the petals divide into quarters within the flower. This rose dates back to bout 410 B.C. These roses make good climbers. Most of the centifolias bloom only once in spring. Mosses This large family of roses are called mosses because their stems have thousands of tiny thorns on them, and even the flower bracts are 'mossy' with thorns. The flowers are usually double, and bloom in the spring. We had a moss rose, and the flowers were the most intense pink/purple I have ever seen on any rose. It was beautful. Portland Developed in the middle of the 19th century, this rose family has mostly ever-blooming or perpetual blooming roses. The first family was produced in England at about 1800. The rose was named Duchess of Portland, hence the name Portland roses. A good Portland rose is Comte de Chambourd. Bourbons These roses came from a natural cross of a China rose and a damask rose. The bushes are compact and the roses are fewer, but much better flowers in the fall than the other rose families. This is personally my favorite group of old roses. The flowers are very double and globular shaped. They have a beautiful bloom in the fall, and won't quit blooming until the frost kills them. Some examples are Honorine de Brabant, La Reine Victoria, Madamme Isaac Periere, and Souvenir de la Malmaison. China Roses It was with the introduction of the China roses to Europe that true ever-blooming roses were developed. Portlands, Bourbons, and perhaps even Damasks were produced by crossing them with China roses. Although not very popular in the garden, these roses are very important to the history of rose culture. Some Available Old Roses Species Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Rosa Foetida single petals yellow Rosa foetida Persiana double flowers yellow Rose foetida bicolor single orange Mrs. Colville single red Rosa pimpinellifolia "double white double flowers white Rosa canina single pink Kiftsgate single, rambler white Alba Roses ^^^^^^^^^^ Great Maiden's Blush fully double blush pink Jeanne d'Arc fully double white Rosa alba 'semiplena' semi-double white Felicite Parmentier double pale pink Gallica Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Rosa gallica semi-double rose madder Rosa gallica versicolor double rose/white striped Charles de Mills full double deep pink Tuscany Superb full double fuchsia Georges Vibert full double striped Damask Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Rose de Rescht full double rose madder Celsiana double pale pink Madamme Hardy double white Pink Leda double medium pink Duchess de Montebello double palest pink Leda double white/pink edges Comte de Chambord double pink/lilac Bourbon Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Honorine de Brabant double striped/lilac/white Madame Isaac Pereire fully double rose madder La Reine Victoria double, cupped med. pink Boule de Neige double white Madame Pierre Oger double pale pink Souvenir de al Malmaison double/flat flesh pink Ferdinand Pichard double red/white striped Reine des Violettes double purple Moss Roses ^^^^^^^^^^ General Kleber double palest pink Shailer's White Moss double white William Lobb double lilac Centifolia Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Tour de Malkoff double deep fushcia Chapeau de Napoleon double pink De Meaux double pale pink Hybrid Musk Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Cornelia semi double pink Ballerina single whtie & pink Penelope semi double pale yellow Nymphenburg semi double apricot pink Rugosa Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Blanc Double de Coubert double white Topaz Jewel double yellow Reseraie de l'Hay doulbe med. pink Linda Campbell double red Alba single white Fru Dagmar Hastrup single pink Hansa double deep deep pink Many of these may be found in Wayside Rose Catalog. Also, check your better nurseries. Old roses are beginning to show up. I just found a good speciman of "Souvenir de la Malmaison" for $7!!!!! What a find! Re: Favorite Old Roses, Climbing Roses (rec.gardens) Date: 5 Mar 92 18:24:28 GMT I have just planted two old climbing roses I am very excited about - SOMBREUIL: a tea rose, "capable of reaching great heights in a sheltered garden," and whose "fragrance, shiny dark green foliage, and spectacular creamy white flowers make this one of the most beautiful and useful of all roses." ZE'PHIRIN DROUHIN: a semi-double pink Bourbon, popular because the canes are (really!) thornless. Both of these are popular in the South, so should do well in the Central Valley, but may be too tender for northern gardens. Also, DORTMUND: a single red flower with white eye, said to have holly- like foliage and good heat tolerance. I'd try it if I had more room. All are highly rated and fairly disease resistant, though ZD may be subject to mildew. The first two are available from Smith & Hawken, the other is stocked by Berkeley Horticultural or try the usual suspects (I can provide a list of old rose nurseries, if there is any demand.) rec.gardens: Subject: Re: Climbing Roses Date: 6 Mar 92 01:21:20 GMT >I'm looking for a good (actually I would love a *great*) climbing rose and >was wonderingif anyone out there has a favorite variety (You *do* know that no roses actually climb, like ivy, but some just throw out extra-long canes ...) Rosa moschata, R. moschata semiplena Musk roses species, with single or fluffy semi-double blossoms respectively. Grows to 50' if you let it. One longish blooming season in NJ, may be longer out here (in Sac). Flowers are white. Scent is amazing. Alchymist (occasionally Alchemist) Buff yellow very full and quartered blossoms, with more or less pink in them depending on how cold it is during bud formation. I'd expect no pink out here. Grows to 20' in NJ that I've seen. Very long blooming season but not quite "recurrent". Nice scent but not overpowering. Rosa glauca (was R. rubrifolia) Species rose listed as stopping at 8', but there is/was a specimen in WI that stopped growing *up* at about 12' and thenceforth grew out, maybe 20' total. No scent. Flowers are a pretty pink, single, narrowish petals so the blossom is kind of star-shaped. Yellow stamens. The leaves are steel-blue with red edging, and the stems and canes are claret. Flowering season is short, but you don't grow it for the flowers. Applejack Grows to 10' or so. Recurrent. Single pretty pink flowers, with fatter petals than R. glauca, so that it looks like a rose, not like a star. Flower is unscented but foliage smells of apples. Drops petals neatly so the bush is always pretty. This one is kind of hard to find, but is a real sweetheart. La Belle Sultane Grows to 10' or so. Medium blooming season. Single purple blossoms, shading to lighter crimson inward, with bright yellow stamens. Nothing else remotely like her, and a beauty. If you'd like to see R. glauca, Alchymist, or La Belle Sultane, contact me this summer or next year: I'm planting all three weekend after next, UPS permitting. ;0) Subject: Re: Old Roses Date: 10 Jan 92 20:27:49 GMT TK> >>There's a rose source in Texas that grows the old roses TK> >>onto their own root system. ANTIQUE ROSE EMPORIUM Route 5, Box 143 Brenham, TX 77833 telephone: (409) 836-9051 They offer a color/b&w catalog for $2.00, containing a broad selection of old garden roses, each well described, with a good deal of historical and cultural information. Roses are grown on their own roots, selectedd for fragrance and long bloom in Zones 6 and above. They also offer books for rosarians. The minimum order is $10 and they also will ship to Canada. rec.gardens: Subject: Re: Old Roses Date: 11 Jan 92 06:10:40 GMT The catalog ($3) from Heirloom Old Garden Roses 24062 Riverside Dr NE St. Paul, OR 97137 comes highly recommended. I'm just sending away for mine, so I haven't seen it yet, but one hardcore antique rose freak I know said he almost died when he got his. He's not impressed easily. Subject: Re: Antique Roses Date: 27 Jan 92 22:37:15 GMT I purchased the bare-root plants by mail-order from: ROSES OF YESTERDAY & TODAY 802 Brown's Valley Road Watsonville, CA 95076-0398 (408) 724-3537 or 2755 The informative catalog is $3 and describes the plants very well. However, they will only mail the plants between the 1st of January until the end of May. NOTE: When I purchased roses from them, they were all grafted onto various rootstocks. Their is a mail-order source that sells UNGRAFTED bare-root antique roses. It is: ANTIQUE ROSE EMPORIUM Route 5, Box 143 Brenham, TX 77833 (409) 836-9051 Their catalog is $2 and they also ship only from Jan. 1 to May 30. ALL roses are grown on their own roots, selected for fragrance and long bloom in Zone 6 and above. Today, I learned of two additional sources for Old Garden Roses. They are: VINTAGE GARDENS 3003 Pleasant Hill Road Sebastapol, CA 95472 (1992 catalog - $1; 1993 catalog - $2) and HEIRLOOM OLD GARDEN ROSES 24062 N.E. Riverside St. Paul, OR 97137 catalog - $3 Subject: Re: Antique Roses Date: 29 Jan 92 19:05:34 GMT (With Pickering's 1991-2 catalog at my elbow ...) A number of old-fashioned roses do bloom recurrently. "Recurrently" is a slightly strange word in the rose world. A "non-recurrent bloomer" blooms for a month or two in June and July. A "recurrent bloomer" blooms then and also at other times during the season. This may range from the February-to- November bloomers to a rose, whose main season bloom having been religiously dead-headed (the spent blooms cut off before they can make hips), will spit out a couple more blooms in September or so. Bearing that definition in mind, here's a quick survey of old-fashioned roses, with notes of *my* parti- cular favorites: Polyanthas originated about 1875. They are parents of the mini-roses. Most are low growing, have large clusters of individual smallish blooms, and are recurrent. I don't have any personal experience with these. The Fairy is an extremely popular variety, blooming continuously with shell-pink flowers. You might even be able to get The Fairy at local nurseries. Hybrid Perpetuals originated about 1840. As their name implies, they are among the first recurrent varieties. Their blossom production tends to be a tad spotty after the initial flush. Mabel Morrison has an upright habit and opaque white gardenia-like roses on extremely short stems. The blossoms sit right in the leaves. Depending on the temperature at a crucial time in the bud formation, some blossoms might be very lightly flushed with pink, which results in a bush with some white roses and some very very pale pink roses, or even a rose with a few very pale pink streaks in the whiteness. Unfortunately, she has no scent. Shrub roses don't fit any category very well, and many are quite modern (which is why I use the term "old-fashioned" instead of "antique"). Many are recurrent. Alchymist is listed as growing to 6', but every one I've grown has had no problem sending canes out several yards. Depending on the climate, the blossoms may be an antique gold or have pink-peach highlights (the colder the winter, the more colorful the flower). The individual blooms are enormous and quite fragrant. It is listed as non-recurrent, but in NJ its season was close to three months. Rosa rugosa is a species native to Japan, and many attractive hybrids are mostly R. rugosa. The outstanding characteristics are coarse, heavily "quilted" leaves, large, attractive hips, extreme winter hardiness, resis- tance to disease, abundant thorns, continuous bloom, and tolerance of salt (for beachside gardens). Dr. Eckener compares favorably with Alchymist in vigor of growth. The blossoms are zoned yellow and bright pink, and are semi-double (8-20 or so petals). Dr. E. is quite fragrant, and has truly awesome thorns. Frau Dagmar Hartopp is a gem -- single, silky silver-pink blossoms, and relatively low growing. Alba roses are true antiques: Alba maxima was known in 1450. They are all non-recurrent. They have bluish-grey leaves and the blossoms are either white or pale pink. They are also winter hardy and fragrant. Madame Legras de St. Germain has small white blossoms with just a hint of lemon well in- side. She grows rather low and is literally smothered in blossoms in June and July. The blossom petals are tiny and very abundant, and toss scent off in buckets. Bourbon roses were created accidentally as a cross between one of the antiques (I forget which) and Rosa chinensis, which had just been imported from (guess) China. R. chinensis is very tender, and some Bourbons are also rather tender, needing the cosseting one has to give to hybrid teas. How- ever, they have enough more of their antique genes to resist disease much better than the H.T.'s. Some are recurrent, some not. I haven't grown any of these yet, not having lived in a place before now where I wouldn't have to baby them. But this year ...! Centifolia roses are the big "cabbage" roses you see on old wallpaper. They are very winter hardy, not recurrent, and extremely fragrant. The ones that Pickering lists range from light to dark pink and mauve to scarlet and dark purple. For some reason I haven't grown any of these either -- quite a gap! Rosa chinensis varieties are quite tender, but recurrent. They tend to be martyrs to black spot. Also, R. chinensis has contributed yellow to the rose palette. As with the Bourbons, until this year I haven't lived where I could grow these easily, so have no experience with them. Tipo Ideale, also called Rosa Mutabilis, blooms pale yellow, and as the blossom ages, the color darkens through orange to dark red. I've seen this rose in public gardens and it is spectacular. I imagine the climber Joseph's Coat, whose blossoms go through the same changes, has lots of the Rosa Mutabilis genes in it. Archduke Charles blooms white, and the blossoms darken through pink to a purplish red. A blooming bush of Charles is also quite stunning, and I love to see someone else growing it. :o) The "Green Rose", Rosa chinensis viridiflora, does not have real petals: the flower bracts are extended and form green and brown blossom-like growths. I haven't seen this in person but [rest of message missing] Subject: Re: Old Roses Date: 10 Jan 92 20:27:49 GMT TK> >>There's a rose source in Texas that grows the old roses TK> >>onto their own root system. ANTIQUE ROSE EMPORIUM Route 5, Box 143 Brenham, TX 77833 telephone: (409) 836-9051 They offer a color/b&w catalog for $2.00, containing a broad selection of old garden roses, each well described, with a good deal of historical and cultural information. Roses are grown on their own roots, selectedd for fragrance and long bloom in Zones 6 and above. They also offer books for rosarians. The minimum order is $10 and they also will ship to Canada. Subject: Re: Old Roses Date: 11 Jan 92 06:10:40 GMT The catalog ($3) from Heirloom Old Garden Roses 24062 Riverside Dr NE St. Paul, OR 97137 comes highly recommended. I'm just sending away for mine, so I haven't seen it yet, but one hardcore antique rose freak I know said he almost died when he got his. He's not impressed easily. Subject: Re: Antique Roses Date: 27 Jan 92 22:37:15 GMT I purchased the bare-root plants by mail-order from: ROSES OF YESTERDAY & TODAY 802 Brown's Valley Road Watsonville, CA 95076-0398 (408) 724-3537 or 2755 The informative catalog is $3 and describes the plants very well. However, they will only mail the plants between the 1st of January until the end of May. NOTE: When I purchased roses from them, they were all grafted onto various rootstocks. Their is a mail-order source that sells UNGRAFTED bare-root antique roses. It is: ANTIQUE ROSE EMPORIUM Route 5, Box 143 Brenham, TX 77833 (409) 836-9051 Their catalog is $2 and they also ship only from Jan. 1 to May 30. ALL roses are grown on their own roots, selected for fragrance and long bloom in Zone 6 and above. Today, I learned of two additional sources for Old Garden Roses. They are: VINTAGE GARDENS 3003 Pleasant Hill Road Sebastapol, CA 95472 (1992 catalog - $1; 1993 catalog - $2) and HEIRLOOM OLD GARDEN ROSES 24062 N.E. Riverside St. Paul, OR 97137 catalog - $3 Subject: Re: Antique Roses Date: 29 Jan 92 19:05:34 GMT (With Pickering's 1991-2 catalog at my elbow ...) A number of old-fashioned roses do bloom recurrently. "Recurrently" is a slightly strange word in the rose world. A "non-recurrent bloomer" blooms for a month or two in June and July. A "recurrent bloomer" blooms then and also at other times during the season. This may range from the February-to- November bloomers to a rose, whose main season bloom having been religiously dead-headed (the spent blooms cut off before they can make hips), will spit out a couple more blooms in September or so. Bearing that definition in mind, here's a quick survey of old-fashioned roses, with notes of *my* parti- cular favorites: Polyanthas originated about 1875. They are parents of the mini-roses. Most are low growing, have large clusters of individual smallish blooms, and are recurrent. I don't have any personal experience with these. The Fairy is an extremely popular variety, blooming continuously with shell-pink flowers. You might even be able to get The Fairy at local nurseries. Hybrid Perpetuals originated about 1840. As their name implies, they are among the first recurrent varieties. Their blossom production tends to be a tad spotty after the initial flush. Mabel Morrison has an upright habit and opaque white gardenia-like roses on extremely short stems. The blossoms sit right in the leaves. Depending on the temperature at a crucial time in the bud formation, some blossoms might be very lightly flushed with pink, which results in a bush with some white roses and some very very pale pink roses, or even a rose with a few very pale pink streaks in the whiteness. Unfortunately, she has no scent. Shrub roses don't fit any category very well, and many are quite modern (which is why I use the term "old-fashioned" instead of "antique"). Many are recurrent. Alchymist is listed as growing to 6', but every one I've grown has had no problem sending canes out several yards. Depending on the climate, the blossoms may be an antique gold or have pink-peach highlights (the colder the winter, the more colorful the flower). The individual blooms are enormous and quite fragrant. It is listed as non-recurrent, but in NJ its season was close to three months. Rosa rugosa is a species native to Japan, and many attractive hybrids are mostly R. rugosa. The outstanding characteristics are coarse, heavily "quilted" leaves, large, attractive hips, extreme winter hardiness, resis- tance to disease, abundant thorns, continuous bloom, and tolerance of salt (for beachside gardens). Dr. Eckener compares favorably with Alchymist in vigor of growth. The blossoms are zoned yellow and bright pink, and are semi-double (8-20 or so petals). Dr. E. is quite fragrant, and has truly awesome thorns. Frau Dagmar Hartopp is a gem -- single, silky silver-pink blossoms, and relatively low growing. Alba roses are true antiques: Alba maxima was known in 1450. They are all non-recurrent. They have bluish-grey leaves and the blossoms are either white or pale pink. They are also winter hardy and fragrant. Madame Legras de St. Germain has small white blossoms with just a hint of lemon well in- side. She grows rather low and is literally smothered in blossoms in June and July. The blossom petals are tiny and very abundant, and toss scent off in buckets. Bourbon roses were created accidentally as a cross between one of the antiques (I forget which) and Rosa chinensis, which had just been imported from (guess) China. R. chinensis is very tender, and some Bourbons are also rather tender, needing the cosseting one has to give to hybrid teas. How- ever, they have enough more of their antique genes to resist disease much better than the H.T.'s. Some are recurrent, some not. I haven't grown any of these yet, not having lived in a place before now where I wouldn't have to baby them. But this year ...! Centifolia roses are the big "cabbage" roses you see on old wallpaper. They are very winter hardy, not recurrent, and extremely fragrant. The ones that Pickering lists range from light to dark pink and mauve to scarlet and dark purple. For some reason I haven't grown any of these either -- quite a gap! Rosa chinensis varieties are quite tender, but recurrent. They tend to be martyrs to black spot. Also, R. chinensis has contributed yellow to the rose palette. As with the Bourbons, until this year I haven't lived where I could grow these easily, so have no experience with them. Tipo Ideale, also called Rosa Mutabilis, blooms pale yellow, and as the blossom ages, the color darkens through orange to dark red. I've seen this rose in public gardens and it is spectacular. I imagine the climber Joseph's Coat, whose blossoms go through the same changes, has lots of the Rosa Mutabilis genes in it. Archduke Charles blooms white, and the blossoms darken through pink to a purplish red. A blooming bush of Charles is also quite stunning, and I love to see someone else growing it. :o) The "Green Rose", Rosa chinensis viridiflora, does not have real petals: the flower bracts are extended and form green and brown blossom-like growths. I haven't seen this in person but [rest of message missing] Re: Favorite Old Roses I thought I would talk about some of my favorite old roses (and a few 'new' ones). Many people ask me about them, and I will talk about the ones I know about first-hand. All of these roses grew for me or my mother, and I helped in keeping them healthy and happy. First of all, let me tell you that I do not have a "rose garden" per se. My roses live in the flower border with other perennials and annuals planted in and around them. My aim is to grow a "perennial border" like Christopher Lloyd, (my gardening hero), but so far it's a far cry from Great Dixter. 1) Duchess de Brabant: Tea rose from 1857. Medium pink flowers, cupped and free flowering. Flowers continuously, with it's best bloom in the fall. The foliage is deep green with red undersides on the leaves. This rose is my absolute favorite over all others, and that is not an easy judgement to make. She grows well in full sun, but is sensitive to freezing weather. My bush died down to the ground this year, but it is coming back full swing, and already has two buds! 2) La Reine Victoria: Bourbon rose, 1872. Lilac-pink blooms that form perfect cups, even when fully open. Blooms continously. The foliage is light green, and the bush is tall and slender, about 5 ft tall and 3 ft wide. My poor bush has seen a lot of wear and tear. When it was rather large, I pruned it heavily and moved it from my mothers garden to mine. She didn't bloom last year, and I don't blame her for it. I moved her again this February to a sunnier location, and she is growing vigorously right now. 3) Honorine de Brabant: Bourbon Rose, date unknown. This is one of the old striped roses. The flowers are shades of pink and lilac with purple markings on a large cupped flower. One of the few striped roses to bloom continously. The plant is vigorous, with few thorns. Foliage medium green and lush. My plant was brand new last year but it grew very well. 4) Rose de Rescht: Portland rose, date unknown, discovered by Miss Nancy Lindsay. Flowers are a rich fuchsia-red color and are tightly formed into a perfect rosette, fully double. This rose has the most regular and perfect blooms I've seen so far. It is a small bush, medium green foliage, and it blooms all season long. 5) Rosa gallica versicolor (Rosa Mundi), Gallica rose of great antiquity (over 500 years old). This rose is striped, semi-double with deep rose madder red and white stripes. When it is in full bloom, the bush looks like a huge peppermint bush! The bush is very hardy and very lush. It blooms only in the spring, then the foliage starts look poorly. Subject to blackspot -- but the spring bloom is worth it all! I plant it among my other flowers so that when the bloom is over, the bush is not an eyesore. Re: Favorite Old Roses, Climbing Roses (from Usenet, rec.gardens) Subject: Re: Climbing Roses Date: 5 Mar 92 18:24:28 GMT I have just planted two old climbing roses I am very excited about - SOMBREUIL: a tea rose, "capable of reaching great heights in a sheltered garden," and whose "fragrance, shiny dark green foliage, and spectacular creamy white flowers make this one of the most beautiful and useful of all roses." ZE'PHIRIN DROUHIN: a semi-double pink Bourbon, popular because the canes are (really!) thornless. Both of these are popular in the South, so should do well in the Central Valley, but may be too tender for northern gardens. Also, DORTMUND: a single red flower with white eye, said to have holly- like foliage and good heat tolerance. I'd try it if I had more room. All are highly rated and fairly disease resistant, though ZD may be subject to mildew. The first two are available from Smith & Hawken, the other is stocked by Berkeley Horticultural or try the usual suspects (I can provide a list of old rose nurseries, if there is any demand.) Subject: Old Rose sources Summary: list of nurseries Date: 31 Mar 92 20:41:52 GMT Disclaimer: this list is not exhaustive and may contain inaccuracies. No endorsement of products or service is necessarily (known or) implied. The two large growers suspected of conspiring to block free trade with Canada have been deliberately omitted... Antique Rose Emporium Route 5, Box 143 Brenham, TX 77833 409 836-9051 catalog $2.00 Carroll Gardens P.O. Box 310 Westminster, MD 21157 301 848-5422 Corn Hill Nursery RR 5, Route 890 Petitcodiac, N.B. E0A 2H0 Canada 506 756-3635 catalog $2.00 Country Bloomers Nursery 20091 E. Chapman Ave. Orange, CA 92669 714 633-7222 Country Heritage Roses Route 2, Box 1401 Scurry, TX 75158 214 452-3380 Earl May Seed & Nursery L.P. Shenandoah, IA 51603 800 831-4193 Forest Farms 990 Tetherow Road Williams, OR 97544 503 846-6963 catalog $1.50 Forevergreen Farm 70 New Gloucester Road North Yarmouth, ME 04021 207 829-5830 catalog free Greenmantle Nursery 3010 Ettersburg Road Garberville, CA 95440 707 986-7504 Gurney Seed & Nursery 110 Capitol Street Yankton, SD 57079 605 665-4451 Heirloom Old Garden Roses Oregon 503 538-1576 Heritage Rosarium 211 Haviland Mill Road Brookeville, MD 20833 301 774-2806 catalog $1.00 Heritage Rose Gardens 16831 Mitchell Creek Drive Fort Bragg, CA 95437 707 964-3748 catalog $1.00 High Country Rosarium 1717 Downing at Park Ave. Denver, CO 80218 303 832-4026 Historical Roses 1657 W. Jackson Street Painesville, OH 44077 216 357-7270 Hortico Roses Robson Road, RR 1 Waterdown, Ontario L0R 2H1 Canada 416 689-6984 catalog $2.00 Inter-State Nurseries P.O. Box 10 Louisiana, MI 63353 314 754-4525 800 325-4180 Kimbrew-Walter Roses Route 2, Box 172 Grand Saline, TX 75140 214 829-2968 Krider Nurseries P.O. Box 29 Middlebury, IN 46540 219 825-5714 Lowe's Own Root Roses 6 Sheffield Road Nashua, NH 03062 603 888-2214 catalog $2.00 Morden Nurseries P.O. Box 1270 Morden, Manitoba R0G 1J0 Canada 204 822-3311 Pickering Nurseries 670 Kingston Road Hwy 2 Pickering, Ontario L1V 1A6 Canada 416 839-2111 catalog $2.00 (free price list) Rose Acres 6641 Crystal Blvd. Diamond Springs, CA 95619 916 626-1722 Roses of Yesterday & Today 802 Brown's Valley Road Watsonville, CA 95076 408 724-3537 catalog $3.00 Smith & Hawken (seems to be expanding into the old rose market) 25 Corte Madera Mill Valley, CA 94941 catalog info 415 383-2000 Yesterday's Rose 572 Las Colindas Road San Rafael, CA 94903 Bev Dobson's Combined Rose List 215 Harriman Road Irvington, NY 10533 (to locate source of any commercially propagated rose) Re: Roses List Species Roses Rosa Foetida single petals yellow Rosa foetida Persiana double flowers yellow Rose foetida bicolor single orange Mrs. Colville single red Rosa pimpinellifolia "double white double flowers white Rosa canina single pink Kiftsgate single, rambler white Alba Roses Great Maiden's Blush fully double blush pink Jeanne d'Arc fully double white Rosa alba 'semiplena' semi-double white Felicite Parmentier double pale pink Gallica Roses Rosa gallica semi-double rose madder Rosa gallica versicolor double rose/white striped Charles de Mills full double deep pink Tuscany Superb full double fuchsia Georges Vibert full double striped Damask Roses Rose de Rescht full double rose madder Celsiana double pale pink Madamme Hardy double white Pink Leda double medium pink Duchess de Montebello double palest pink Leda double white/pink edges Many of these roses are available from Wayside Gardens. I had ordered four roses from them, and three are doing wonderfully. The fourth died, and I called them today. They will send me a replacement this week, no charge. I like this company! Re: Old Roses (from Usenet, rec.gardens, Bob Batson, Susan Ford) Date: 30 Mar 92 16:57:07 GMT Here is a list of some of the main old rose varieties. I will follow it up with a selection of roses from each group. Species Roses These plants are the ancestors of all of the roses. Species refers to the plants as they have been found in the wild, un-changed and un-hybridized. For the most part, species roses are single petalled, and some are semi-double. The different varieties come in yellow, pink, rose madder red, and white. They are also very LARGE bushes, growing up to 50 feet or more. The Lady Banks rose is an example of a species rose. Most of them only bloom once a year. Gallicas The flowers of the gallicas are usually flat and fully double, the bushes have few thorns, and they are easy to raise from seed. The town of Provins, France, was for 600 years the center of a great rose industry based on _R. gallica officinalis_ (Red Rose of Lancaster) and some of its forms. This rose was believed to have medicinal properties. The Empress Josephine collected gallica roses for her garden in Malmaisson. Some of the roses in this family date back to the 12th and 13th centurys. Most of them are shades of rose madder and pink, and bloom only once in a season. Damasks This is the first old rose family to have ever-blooming flowers. It is possible that this rose was brought to Europe by the Greek traders in the main ports of the Mediterrainian between 800 and 600 B.C. The flowers are usually fully double, flowering in summer, and then again in fall. They are said to be repeat bloomers, instead of ever blooming. Their parentage is unknown, but it is believed that they come from a cross of Rosa gallica and an everblooming Asian species. An example of this rose family is Autumn Damask, or "Quatre Saisons". The petals of this rose were scattered under the feet of the Roman Emperors as they walked along in public. Centifolias Centifolia means 'hundred petals', and these roses are the most fully double of them all. The roses are very full, and the petals divide into quarters within the flower. This rose dates back to bout 410 B.C. These roses make good climbers. Most of the centifolias bloom only once in spring. Mosses This large family of roses are called mosses because their stems have thousands of tiny thorns on them, and even the flower bracts are 'mossy' with thorns. The flowers are usually double, and bloom in the spring. We had a moss rose, and the flowers were the most intense pink/purple I have ever seen on any rose. It was beautful. Portland Developed in the middle of the 19th century, this rose family has mostly ever-blooming or perpetual blooming roses. The first family was produced in England at about 1800. The rose was named Duchess of Portland, hence the name Portland roses. A good Portland rose is Comte de Chambourd. Bourbons These roses came from a natural cross of a China rose and a damask rose. The bushes are compact and the roses are fewer, but much better flowers in the fall than the other rose families. This is personally my favorite group of old roses. The flowers are very double and globular shaped. They have a beautiful bloom in the fall, and won't quit blooming until the frost kills them. Some examples are Honorine de Brabant, La Reine Victoria, Madamme Isaac Periere, and Souvenir de la Malmaison. China Roses It was with the introduction of the China roses to Europe that true ever-blooming roses were developed. Portlands, Bourbons, and perhaps even Damasks were produced by crossing them with China roses. Although not very popular in the garden, these roses are very important to the history of rose culture. Some Available Old Roses Species Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Rosa Foetida single petals yellow Rosa foetida Persiana double flowers yellow Rose foetida bicolor single orange Mrs. Colville single red Rosa pimpinellifolia "double white double flowers white Rosa canina single pink Kiftsgate single, rambler white Alba Roses ^^^^^^^^^^ Great Maiden's Blush fully double blush pink Jeanne d'Arc fully double white Rosa alba 'semiplena' semi-double white Felicite Parmentier double pale pink Gallica Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Rosa gallica semi-double rose madder Rosa gallica versicolor double rose/white striped Charles de Mills full double deep pink Tuscany Superb full double fuchsia Georges Vibert full double striped Damask Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Rose de Rescht full double rose madder Celsiana double pale pink Madamme Hardy double white Pink Leda double medium pink Duchess de Montebello double palest pink Leda double white/pink edges Comte de Chambord double pink/lilac Bourbon Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Honorine de Brabant double striped/lilac/white Madame Isaac Pereire fully double rose madder La Reine Victoria double, cupped med. pink Boule de Neige double white Madame Pierre Oger double pale pink Souvenir de al Malmaison double/flat flesh pink Ferdinand Pichard double red/white striped Reine des Violettes double purple Moss Roses ^^^^^^^^^^ General Kleber double palest pink Shailer's White Moss double white William Lobb double lilac Centifolia Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Tour de Malkoff double deep fushcia Chapeau de Napoleon double pink De Meaux double pale pink Hybrid Musk Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Cornelia semi double pink Ballerina single whtie & pink Penelope semi double pale yellow Nymphenburg semi double apricot pink Rugosa Roses ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Blanc Double de Coubert double white Topaz Jewel double yellow Reseraie de l'Hay doulbe med. pink Linda Campbell double red Alba single white Fru Dagmar Hastrup single pink Hansa double deep deep pink Many of these may be found in Wayside Rose Catalog. Also, check your better nurseries. Old roses are beginning to show up. I just found a good speciman of "Souvenir de la Malmaison" for $7!!!!! What a find!