Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 17:12:38 -0500 From: Murray Ryan Pickard Subject: Pond FAQ. Well, this is the initial (pre-alpha) release of the pond FAQ. I hope to clean this up quite a bit in the future, as well as provide much better / more accurate information as people point out the errors in this one. Currently it is roughly arranged in the format of: Liners for ponds Flexible liners How to do the sides to minimize liner show at surface Rigid liners Some general suggestions to ponder prior the construction of a pond Filters/Pumps/Waterfalls ....This section is really wimpy, and am looking forward to more input to build up this section with. Plants Fish Book recommendations Societies/BBS's Mail Order sources **NOTE I have not verified any of these. Proceed with caution when dealing with mail order. If any of this info is INcorrect, PLEASE notify me with the correct info. Contributors to this initial release. * These are people that had posted info or questions to the net regarding ponds and/or watergardens. It's their info that helped to make up this FAQ, and those that contributed significant sections, are identified with that section. AGAIN, This stuff had been pulled off the net over the past year or so by a couple of people, and emailed to me. I MAKE NO CLAIMS THAT THE FOLLOWING IS CORRECT IN ALL INSTANCES, NOR THAT ANY OF IT IS MY OWN WORK (of which some of it is) BUT RATHER THAT THIS IS PUBLIC PROPERTY OF THE NET, AND I ONLY MAINTAIN IT FOR CORRECTNESS, EASE OF USE (in the future), AND HOPEFULLY CORRECT AND ACURATE IDENTIFICATION OF THOSE THAT HAVE CONTRIBUTED TOWARDS ITS EXISTANCE. ANY AND ALL STANDARD (and if necessary, unstandard) DISCLAIMERS APPLY. Please send any corrections/additions/requests to: Murray Pickard aka photo@ksu.ksu.edu ENJOY! - POND FAQ - Pond Construction: Broken down into flexible liners, rigid liners, and pre-formed, followed by some general contruction recommendations for whatever you should choose to go with. A. Flexible liners: There are three type of flexible liners available to the pond builder, these are: 1. PVC: (poly vinly choride) a relatively cheap liner, however, must be protected from UV exposure from the sun. 2. EPDM: (Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer) This is used alot of times for roofing, comes in various thicknesses. General opinion is 45 mil is fine for pond use. Some sources claim that you need to get the "fish grade". According to Jack H from the Garden Pond BBS, he's checked with the manufacturer and the word is that they sell exactly the same product as "fish-grade" and for roofing. 3. Butyl: For the most part, is considered a more expensive version of EPDM, supposedly differs in chemical composition. EPDM (and Butyl) are available from roofing people (check your yellow pages). The two leaders in the field are Firestone (trade name "Rubbergard") and Carlisle (trade name "Sure-Seal"). zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Lance R. Bailey) it's time again for the annual posting of how to finish off the edges of a garden pond. I hope this helps. Pond Liners and the Sun ----------------------- There are a number of reasons to keep the sun from shining on your pond liner. First off, liners are not particularly pretty, and secondly the sun can/will decay the liner over time. You have essentially two tools with which to hide the liner -- earth/stones and water. The first issue in hiding your liner is to create a level pond. Let's say that your pond is 10 feet long, and you have one end only a few inches lower than the other. If you were to use this without better leveling, then after filling you would have a minimum of 4 inches showing at the one end -- and since many pool owners keep the level down an inch or two, you have *half a foot* of liner showing -- not good. So the more level your pond is the better -- beg, borrow or buy a 4 foot contractors level, or strap a two foot level to a piece of straight, stiff wood and use that. The other issue in hiding your liner is how you finish the edges of the pond. Traditionally, ponds are finished as follows: the liner comes up out of the water, over the edge and flatish rocks are lain on top of the liner to hide the liner. The rocks overhang the edge to even better hide the liner, but this has never really hidden it to my eyes. (see figure 1) figure 1. traditional edge finishing XXXXXXXXXXXXXX <--- cap stone ground level ===========--------+ <--- gap showing liner |~~~~~~~ <--- water level \ \ <----- liner Two better approaches have been discovered by me spring 1993 in the catalogues of Lee Valley Tools (Queensview Drive, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada) If they sourced these ideas from elsewhere, I've never seen them and they did not credit them. Approach one is how I did my pond. When you bring up the liner, tuck it under a course or two of bricks, and then back over the bricks. Finish with capstones. The two courses of bricks stay submerged in the water, and liner, being beneath and behind them is completely hidden from sight/sun. In my pond, the water must drop a good 6 inches before *starting* to show liner. see figure 2. figure 2. submerged bricks to hold liner XXXXXXXXXXXXXX <--- cap stone ground level ===========+----- | BBBB~~~~~~~ <--- water level | BBBB <--- bricks in courses (rows) +-------+ | \ \ <----- liner Approach two is how I might well do the next pond, but it requires a extra one to two feet of surface area. The Idea is to create a natural setting with pea gravel/sand and a bog around the edges. Somehow I suspect that the raccoons might find this very easy to disturb, but one never knows. Incorporate a two foot wide, 6 inch deep all around the pond, in addition to any shelves you already have for shallow water plants. Bring the liner up and along this shelf and about 5 inches up the edge. Along the inside edge of this shelf, put in a course (row) or two of bricks -- these will hold the gravel in place. back fill the shelf with gravel/sand to fill in the shelf. Fill the pool until half of the gravel is submerged, giving a beach-like edge to the pond. shallow water plants can be planted in the gravel/sand, with or without pots. (figure three for those keeping count) figure 3. more natural finish ground level =======oooooo \ oooooo <--- gravel \ooooooooo~~~~~~ <--- water level \ooooooooo \ ooooooooBBBB \ooooooooBBBB <--- bricks holding gravel +-----------+ | \ \ <--- liner In both of these alternative, the liner is only visible through the water itself, still not the best in my opinion, but still a lot better than the gap of exposed liner around the edge of the pond. enjoy. --Lance R. Bailey B. Rigid liners: 1. Concrete: [Under construction....ie,I need your info/knowledge/recommendations] 2. Preformed plastic pools: These are usually some kind of molded sturdy plastic tub. There are some that are free standing, just set on your deck/patio and add water, fish, plants, fountain, etc. The others need to be set in the ground in the same fashion as the flexible liners, then filled. (the free standing can also be set in the ground if desired) 3. Wiskey barrel halves: These are relatively inexpensive, some may not need a liner, and will hold a dwarf water lily, some bog plants and a couple of fish. Just plant the plants in the bottom of the barrel (about 1/4 to 1/2 filled with dirt, and some sand/gravel on top of soil) These make a nice addition on the corner of a patio, some people have set them up so one makes a fountain into another with a small recirculating pump, or using two of them as supports for either end of a bench. The following are general comments, recommendations, etc from various contributors of their own experiences. Edited for space conservation, hopefully the content of their recommendations remains unchanged. As to liability and ponds, you will have to check your local by-laws as to how deep you can build it without having to surround it with fences and self-locking gates. In rural areas around here (Ottawa, Canada), you can even have an un-fenced swimming pool. In the city, thou shalt surround thy pool with a particular kind of fencing & submit plans & get permits, etc, if thy pool is more than 24" (61cm) deep. I have a theory that you could by-pass the by-law by putting a horizontal fence (strong, rust-free, wire mesh) in the pool at the 24" level so that children who wander in would not be able to drown (the mesh would have to be a tight enough weave to make solid footing for them) and plants would be able to enjoy the deeper water and grow up through the mesh. This is only a theory!! It's undoubtably better to refrain from digging more than 24".... but then your pond will freeze in the winter & you'll have to rescue your fish and any frogs who dropped by and your hardy water lilies... LINERS- I've convince my pool man to give me a pool liner that he's replacing with a new one. There's many who will tell you that a pool liner will have absorbed the chemicals, but it can be cleaned. In addition, others have talked about using one of the kiddy pools, waterbed mattresses slit open, etc. WATERFALLS--Lowe's has a pre-formed cascade that I intend to use instead of building one by hand. It seems a lot easier as well as more sturdy, with less chance of leaks." >How deep should the pond be? 2-3' seem good enough. You want the pool to stay liquid in some parts during the winter. I live in New Jersey and my pool is about 3' deep. It does fine in the winter. About three feet deep is alright. If you make it too deep you won't be able to see your fish. Try to have multiple levels for various types of plants. Put a lot of water plants in your pond to keep it from getting too hot. Plants add oxygen to the water when it is sunny, when they aren't photosyntysizing, they drain oxygen from the water. So a waterfall will help add oxygen to the water. Depends on your climate. If your summers are very hot, a shallow pond will cook your fish. If your winters are sufficiently cold, a shallow pond will freeze solid. >I want to build a big pond: what kind of problems may I run into? Depends on how big. If your water table is very high you may need underdrains on a liner pond to prevent wall collapse when empty. If your pond is going to be very deep, you may need steel reinforcing in a concrete pond, and/or sloped walls. Holes are a pain to find; do everything possible to avoid them (sand (or pads of damp newspaper) under the liner, maybe even a second liner). Make sure that lawn runoff can't get into the pond; fertilizer or compost runoff makes it hard to keep the pond balanced. DO NOT SITUATE YOUR POND ANYWHERE NEAR TREES. If they are not evergreen, they will fill your pond with leaves in the fall and if they are evergreen, they will fill your pond with needles year round. Also, if you want plants in your pond, you will want to put it in a place that receives at least 6 hours of DIRECT sun a day. Many water plants need as much sun as you can give them (especially water lilies) and will not do well if given less. There are a few that will do well with less sun, but you should try to make it as sunny as possible. Think about what you will do when the pond needs water. Is there a hose that can reach the spot? Could you channel the runoff from the roof of the house into the pond? It's not worth cutting corners on a pond liner. After you go to the trouble of digging the hole why put in a substitute for a liner which will only last a couple of years tops and will require you to drain the pond and upset fish, plants and froggies in a year or two and do all that work over again? There is nothing more upsetting than to walk out some morning to find your pond dry and the fish flipping on the bottom. Cheap liner substitutes just will not hold up to the sunlight and the freeze/thaw cycles of the winter.There are some specialty fishpond suppliers which will sell you just the size piece you need from a bulk roll and cheaper than buying one of the prepackaged kits. (Lilypons?) An alternative which we have used for small ponds are fiberglass or PVC stock watering tanks from a farm supply. You can get them from 40 to 500 gallons. Prices are usually around $45-$55 for a 100 gallon which is about 5ft long, 2ft wide and 2 ft deep. They are usually HEAVY-duty, black, and will last forever. You just dig a hole to drop it in or surround it with rocks to disguise it. > 2. Pumps/filters/plumbing. Recommedations on size pump vs size pond Or whether you need one? We do just fine without, and I think that might also be possible with real ponds, too, so long as there's a good mix of sun and shade, flora and fauna, good luck and bad. Little Giant makes a good line. Obviously, for 120V pumps, you need a GFCI on the circuit. Check local codes for wiring, conduit, and burial depths. Size depends on the usage (circulation, waterfall, stream, fountain?). No simple answer. A nitrogen filter helps if you don't want to hassle with keeping a balanced ecology. A balanced (fish/plants) ecosystem is better, IMHO. >>I also have a UV sterilizer which ELIMINATES green water and >>will also kill free swimming parasites if you have any. The pond >>is three feet deep and I can see the bottom clearly. I use an Aquanetics 15w inline quartz unit that I had previously used on a fishtank. You need quartz because it allows the tube to maintain its desired operating temperature with cold pond water. Its also safer, non-quartz units have the water running on the bare bulb (!) with O-ring seals at the ends. I had one of these break (all by itself) under a fishtank once. You could hook it into your existing pump line. It sits outside the pond and is cylindrical 3" diameter by about 18 inches long white PVC. Half or 3/4 inch (I forget) FPT fittings. >All my plants are doing well and my "test fish" (shubunkins) are breeding >like crazy, but the water has stayed fairly green all summer. UV will fix that green water. Also water changes will help. Since you already have a big pump, just add a few fittings and water your garden with it. Also regarding filtration, if your fish are breeding your water quality is probably fine. You might get a test kit and see what the ammonia, pH, nitrite and nitrate levels are. >- Can one easily make a biological filter that is >readily cleanable? I use sponge inserts for AquaClear model 2000 aquarium filters. They are about $3 mail order, roughly 4x4x10 inches. I get a few feet one inch diameter black poly hose from the hardware store, drill a few holes (well a few dozen) and slide the sponges over the hose. First I cut a slot long ways through the sponge with a long narrow bladed kitchen knife. I wire an aquarium power head ($10 mail order) to one end, cap the other end and presto. The sponge openings are large enough to not catch lots of particulate matter so the thing runs for many weeks before the flow gets to where I feel it needs cleaning. I put it on the pond bottom and direct the flow up so I can see the faint disturbance and know all is working. If you are really careful you can make two and clean alternate ones every 4-8 weeks so you don't reduce the total bacteria population too drasticly. I plan to put a seperate sump/filter (made from a buried plastic trash can) near my pond out of site so all this hardware (sponges, UVs) can go into it for easier cleaning. >- How do you keep that stringy algae down to a managable quantity? Probably my frequent water changes keep nitrates too low for this to be a problem. I have some algae on the sides but its not invasive. >- Is there any control for duckweed? Hmmm. I regularly put duckweed from my fishtank into the pond and it is eaten in a few days. Maybe you are overfeeding your fish? > Do I need a filter to clean the water or will the fish/plants do the job? Depends on the size of pond and the number, size, and kind of fish. For example, if you put one 3-inch long goldfish in a 1000 gallon pond, you won't need a filter. But if you put one foot-long carp in the same pond, you will. If your fish load is not too excessive, the filter could be as simple as an air-driven sponge filter (eg. tetra's pond filter). Keep track of you ammonia and algea levels. If your ammonia level gets too high, or you can't see your fish, you should consider building one. With large ponds ammonia usually isn't a problem. (Unless you have too many fish- be conservative.) The filtration method I'm looking at right now is to combine a gravel base with the main outflow drawn through it, like an under-gravel filter, with an above-ground biological filter in a second large tank. I will probably make that tank a reverse flow, with the water pumped into the support grid at the bottom and percolating up through several layers of graded material. The outflow at the top will return via a broad waterfall to the pond... If you get the right balance of fish/plants/scavengers, they will sustain themselves. However, since you want a waterfall, you might want to get a filter to pump the water up to the top of the falls instead of a water pump. Don't go nuts on the fish! Stock sparingly with goldfish or koi or whatever. Goldfish are a bit more showy and hardy, but I prefer koi for their majesty. Also, koi are reputed to be 'trainable'. I've heard you can get them to 'puff' a cigar, take food from your hand, etc. However, they do tend to root in plant pots a bit. The pump instructions and box will tell you (and so will the books) how big a pump for how many gallons of water you intend to have in your pool. The books will tell you how to figure the gallons. >I'm not too sure about keeping a sterile environment. You will probably >get mosquitoes if you don't have anything to eat the larvae. Also, any >chemicals you use to keep the water clear (free from algae) will harm >your higher plants when they get splashed. Good point - Getting a couple of Mosquito Fish (A type of minnow) will do a good job, and they'll remain unobtrusive. A good cover of water plants (say, just over 1/2 of the posd surface) should keep the pond pretty clear of algae. A few goldfish (or relatively hardy tropical fish, like paradise fish) will keep the pond clear of insects. It hardly adds any work to the pond (removing dead leaves and fertilizing the plants weekly is about it: the fish don't have to be fed once the pond is established), and the results are much more stable than trying to maintain a sterile environment. >Do you have tropical lillies? Do you have to winter them over out of >the pond where you live? If so, do you a favorite technique for doing >this? No lilies. Hyacinth plus pennywort and duckweed from my fish tanks. I need to get more plants. Plants: Not cheap around here. Papyrus around $6 to $15. Elephant ears about the same. Lotus $15-$45. I have a water iris that keeps coming back every year, so that helps. PLANTS Aquarium shops will sell you the plants to use as oxygenating plants. If you're lucky enough to have a Lowe's, I found water lilies there three weeks ago for $9 each, compared to everyone else's price of $25 and up. > 5. Plants (what are must have's and region, and care of) I'm Sunset Zone 3, USDA Zone 6. Japanese Iris are hardy here, and do well in the margins (or just potted anywhere in a shallow pot). Water lilies are pretty, but don't overwinter. Water Lettuce does well, but bugs love it, and it isn't real pretty. Also doesn't overwinter. The one piece of real information in this message: Anachris will bloom in late spring, with pretty little white flowers held above the water (in California, aanyway) I have not seen this mentioned in any of the water pond books. How do I plant my Oxygenating plants? When you get your oxygenators, you should have 6 to 10 stems of the plant, about 8 to 10 inches long. Plant about half of the stem in the dirt. (w/ rubberband around base of bunch) You can plant 3 to 4 bunches in a 6" pot, and will want 3 bunches per sq. yd. of surface area. The pots can be set to a depth of about 2 ft, deeper once established. > 3. Fish (carp, goldfish, fancy goldfish, koi, ???) Unless you have a pretty big pond, assume that the fish'll get eaten. I prefer just nice, cheap feeder goldfish. Goldfish. Cheap goldfish. I'm hoping to use just plain old goldfish as there are too many cats around my neighborhood to risk the more expensive koi. Literature (books and magazines): Philip Swindells is the presiden of the International Water Lily Society and you may want to look at his book "The Complete Book of Water Gardening" Another good book is "The Stapeley book of Water Gardens". Pondscapes Magazine Magazine of the National Pond Society. Pond Publishing Company PO Box 449 Acworth, GA 30101 (404)975-0277 Ponds and Water Gardens 2nd ed. by Bill Heritage. Blandford publishing. ISBN 0-7137-1861-7. The Family Handyman, June 1990 Issue. couple of good articles on pond construction. good idea on filter construction. question the potting method. def. go with level "steps" inside the pond instead of sloping sides. Back issues: $3.50 each, Handyman Back Issues Dept., PO Box 1917, Marion, OH, 43305. Garden Pools and Fountains, Ortho books. ISBN 0-89721-149-9. Ortho and Sunset both have reasonably good references, especially as pertaining to plants. _The Tetra Encyclopedia of Koi_ Tetra Press, c1989, ISBN 3-923880-98-7 Harrrowsmith Water Garden Book James Allison's _Water_in_the_Garden_ Societies, clubs, BBS's: The Garden Pond BBS is for pond construction, and aquatic plant information. We have pond files and a pond message area. I just returned from the NW International Water Lily Symposium in Boise. Stop in sometime if you need more info. 1-503-735-3074. Complete pond construction is beyond the scope of this message, but I am happy to answer any questions I can. Good luck! Jack National Pond Society PO Box 449 Ackworth GA 30101 (800)742-4701 (annual membership includes 10 issues of Pondscapes magazine, a color publication written by and for pond keepers) Water Garden Society of Greater Kansas City (no further info available at this time) Mail Order sources for about everything pond / fish related Dolphin Outdoors Fiberglass Ponds for gardens and fish Send SASE for brochure and prices 1808 W. Campbell Ave Campbell, CA 95008 (408) 379-7600 Hermitage Garden Pools Fiberglass garden pools, rock waterfalls, self-contained redwood waterwheels; bubbling fantasias Send $1.00 for color catalog PO Box 361, Dept. A Canastoga, NY 13032 (315) 697-9093 Lilypons Water Gardens pond liners, accessories, plants (lilies, lotus, etc), fish, etc. 100-page Catalog subscription $5.00 3 locations: Dept. 1626 PO Box 10 Buckeystown, MD 21717-0010 (800) 723-7667 Dept. 1626 PO Box 188 Brookshire, TX 77423-0188 (800)766-5648 Dept. 1626 PO Box 1130 Thermal, CA 92274-1130 (800) 685-7667 or (800)365-5459 (different ads had different Ph # here) Paradise Water Gardens (617) 447-4711 FAX: (617) 447-4591 Great books on water gardening (too numerous to list here); water lilies, fountains, pumps, Koi, goldfish, aquatic plants, tub gardens. Send $3.00 for a 60-page full-color catalog 56 May St. FN06 Whitman, MA 02382 Pets Unlimited (813) 442-2197 Featuring TetraPond products Send $3.00 for color brochure, price list, plus "Digest for a Successful Pond" 1888 Drew Clearwater, FL 34625 REAL GOODS they've got pumps and solar panels (800) 762 7325 FAX: (707) 468 0301 Resource Conservation Technology, Inc. (301) 366-1146 Butyl Pond liners. 20-year warranty. Won't harm fish or plants, won't stiffen in cold weather, resists sunlight better than plastics. Call or write for literature and samples of the liner and Liner Protection Fabric. 2633 N. Calvert St. Baltimore, MD 21218 Santa Barbara Water Gardens Box 4353 Santa Barbara, CA 93140 Slocum Water Gardens Water Lily Catalog: water lilies, lotus, fancy Goldfish Complete info on tubs, concrete pools, and ponds Send $3.00 Slocum Water Gardens, Dept. FI592 1101 Cypress Gardens Rd. Winter Haven, FL 33880 TetraPond 32-mil, flexible PVC liners, 10-year guarantee; accessory products, fish and plant foods, water treatments, etc. Write for free "how-to" brochure Tetra Sales (USA) Department P-9208 201 Tabor Road, Morris Plains, NJ 07950 That Fish Place A large mail order outfit for aquarium people, however they do carry some of the pumps for ponds. (800) 733-3829 Van Ness Water Gardens Water lilies, bog plants, info, pumps, filters, maintenance (714) 982-2425 For 56-page color catalog, send $4.00 2460 N. Euclid , Dept. 877 Upland, CA 91786-1199 Waterford Gardens (201) 327-0721 Water Lilies, bog plants, lotus, pools and accessories, ornamental fish $5.00 for 1992 catalog 74 East Allendale Road, Dept F Saddle River, NJ 07458 Waterland USA Fountains for your home, patio, or garden (800) 321-6178 Call for free brochure 27071 Cabot Rd., Suite 116 Laguna Hills, CA 92653 William Tricker, Inc. (216) 524-3491 Rare and unusual varieties of water lilies, aquatic plants, fish, etc. Send $3.00 for full-color catalog 7125 Tanglewood Drive Independence, OH 44131 Favorite quote, overheard at the aquatic nursery: Customer: I want to buy some Koi, and what do I have to do to make them breed? Nurseryman: Well, it's pretty hard to stop them. Contributors (whether they knew it or not!) I hope this is inclusive of everyone whose messages had been sent to me by a couple of netters that had collected large collections of postings, and whose information helped to form this FAQ. aab@cichlid.com (Andy Burgess) adam@microware.com (Adam Goldberg) ahill@hpbs972.boi.hp.com (Andy Hill) athdebn@scifac.indstate.edu (Debbie Nelson) bailey@butyng.bu.edu (Sherry Bailey) cfb@fc.hp.com (Charlie Brett) chendd@UG.EDS.COM (Diane DeMers Chen) dbell@cup.portal.com (David J Bell) enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) fog@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Larry Fogelquist) hanna@smsc.sony.com (Nancy Hannaford X-xxx) Jack.Honeycutt@f52.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Honeycutt) jan@bagend.uucp (Jan Isley) jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (john hess) jhb@cvsd.cv.com (Jim Bishop) mcrafts@dale.ksc.nasa.gov (Mark Crafts) mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Michael Burr) onstotc@prism.cs.orst.edu (Curt Onstott) peteo@sgi.com (Pete Orelup) palepink@lily.arts.com rghoff@bb1t.monsanto.com (Rick Hoffman) richb@kronos.com (Rich Braun) sjane@BNR.CA (sjs) sonny@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joseph.j.de rosa) stevem@gold.gvg.tek.com (Steve Miller) stevew@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Steve Weber) stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil tjgorn01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Tim Gornet) vaughan@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (Kirby Vaughan) xku@vax5.cit.cornell.edu zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Lance R. Bailey)