Subject: Re: Stone Patio Construction

From: [email-masked] (EJGOLD)
Date: 11 May 1996 00:10:29 -0400

Since frost heaving obviously will not be a problem, and you are
apparently covering a significant amount of tree roots, I would suggest
the option which allows the largest volume of water to penetrate the
paving.  Unfortunately, all of the methods you describe specify a cement
grout.
Something to consider: You did not specifically say wether the EDGES of
the stones are cut or not (I assume they are). Either way, portland cement
grout is probably a waste of money and effort as it WILL break up over
time when installed over tree roots.  If the stones have sawn edges, they
can be installed with only stone dust or fine sand as joint filler.
===================
(reference post)
>I have been getting quotes for a stone patio in our back yard as well as
>other landscape improvements to  35 year old landscaping.  There seems 
to
>be a difference of opinion between landscapers as to the proper 
foundation
>for the stone which will be a 1 to 1.5 inch thick irregular cut 
flagstone
>or fieldstone.  The soil base is a clay gumbo common in the South, and 
the
>patio would surround one water oak with an approximate 1 foot diameter
>base.  The patio will be bordered by the back of the home, some bedding,
>and the grass lawn.
>
>I am getting 3 recommendations as "the only way to go":  1)  a 4"
>sand/gravel base with the stone set in a sand/Portland Cement mix and
>packed pebbles for "grout" between the stones, 2)  the same as 1) but 
with
>regular grout between the stones, and 3)  a  4" cement slab base with
>grout between the stones.
>
>The option 1) advocate says their method allows adequate water to seep
>into the soil for the tree roots and allows repairs at a later date 
should
>the tree roots begin to lift the stone.  Any other method they say will
>kill the tree.  (The gravel grout causes me some concern as I have small
>children who *love* to dig.)  The option 2) advocate says the tree will 
be
>fine and their method will allow later repairs as in 1).  The option 3)
>advocate says a properly laid slab will not buckle for many years (25 or
>so) and will not kill the tree.  This method also allow for a slightly
>thinner stone to be used.
>
>Needless to say, I am getting confused.  What does this group recommend?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Richard
>[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (John Hapgood)
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 17:58:19 GMT

[email-masked] (Rwharb) wrote:

>Hello, I am new to this group, so please pardon me if this question is not
>appropriate for this newsgroup.

>packed pebbles for "grout" between the stones, 2)  the same as 1) but with
>  The option 3)

I have never seen anything but option "3"  

You should also use a good root barier like Deep Root (brand) and FOLLOW THE
INSTRUTIONS !

John Hapgood
Hapgood Landscape
Lakewood Californíá
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From: jnsdc (Jim Delcarpio)
Date: 10 May 1996 13:58:06 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] says...
to
foundation
flagstone
the
with
should
be
>Hello Richard,
    I've been considering you situation; I would suggest to pay close 
attention to which method of construction would have the least long term 
detrimental affect on the "water oak". It seems the first suggestion 
given by the landscapers may be the best. Good luck

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From: David Mandel <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 09:19:13 -0700

Oaks as a genus are extremely sensitive to disturbance of their roots, any
change whatsoever in grade (lowering or raising the soil level at their
base), and compaction of the soil.  A concrete slab is OUT!  You should
also try to leave an un-patio'd area at least out to the dripline of the
tree, but, barring that option, I'd say option 1 is the best, option 2
probably ok.

			Dave Mandel, MLA
			U. of Washington
			Assoc., American Society of Landscape Architects

On 8 May 1996, Rwharb wrote:

> other landscape improvements to  35 year old landscaping.  There seems to
> be a difference of opinion between landscapers as to the proper foundation
> for the stone which will be a 1 to 1.5 inch thick irregular cut flagstone
> or fieldstone.  The soil base is a clay gumbo common in the South, and the
> into the soil for the tree roots and allows repairs at a later date should
> children who *love* to dig.)  The option 2) advocate says the tree will be

---

From: KJS <[email-masked]>
Date: 11 May 1996 03:03:58 GMT

Root barriers do not lop off the roots of trees but redirect the root syste.  Types of root 
barriers include the bio barriers which has a chemical inherent in the barrier which 
repulses the root to other directions. 
Test have shown that the barriers do not have a detrimental effect on the tree.  Test have 
also shown that roots can be successfully redirected to lower depths with no long term 
detrimental affects on the tree.

Proper root pruning will not affect the longetivity of the tree.

As you are well aware,  the growth of the tree can be manipulated by pruning, root 
pruning, watering (deep or shallow).  The root barrier if placed correctly and with 
proper tree management will allow the tree to assume it's natural appearance with 
longetivity.

K Snyder