Subject: Re: On request:precisions about the case of fatality after cosuming Psilocybe.

From: [email-masked] (Jack Murphy)
Date: 6 Jun 1996 07:29:18 -0700

[email-masked] (Alain Gerault) reported that the level of psilocin in the
blood of the deceased was

>: 45g/l (by HPLC). 

Doesn't this seem a little high?  Is this a typo?

sincerely,

Jack

******************************************
Dr. John (Jack) Murphy  ([email-masked])
Dept. of Botany
Field Museum of Natural History
Chicago, IL 60605-2496
(312) 922-9410 ext. 722
fax (312) 427-2530

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From: [email-masked] (Stamets 1)
Date: 6 Jun 1996 23:45:06 -0400

I think it is important to note that tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds
of thousands, probably millions of people have been ingesting this
mushroom over the past 25 years without a similar authenticated incident.
(The P. baeocystis is in doubt....) How confident are the toxicologists
that there is direct linkage or is it just a candidate cause? P.
semilanceata can vary (up to 2%) in its psilocybin content, but averages
in at 1% which means a gram of dried P. semilanceata mushrooms has about
10 milligrams.  (Actually .98% psilocybin, .02% psilocin, .35% baeocystin;
Gartz 1994). In terms of mg. per kg of body weight, a person ingesting .25
mg/kg.  would have what most would describe as a mild experience; .50
mg/kg would be strong and 1 mg/kg. would be overwhelming (for some
people). 

If the analysis was of psilocybin in the blood, what is the extrapolation
to the probable number of mg. of psilocybin consumed ? 

There is no doubt these are powerful substances, and have other inherent
dangers, but if this case is truly connected to ingesting P. semilanceata,
it is so exceedingly rare as to be a medical anomaly. 

paul stamets

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From: [email-masked] (David N. Gaines)
Date: 7 Jun 1996 05:00:19 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] 
says...
>Doesn't this seem a little high?  Is this a typo?
Hi Jack
	That came out as 4 ug/l on my machine and I assumed it 
was micrograms per liter although the symbol did not look quite like ones 
I am used to.  David

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From: [email-masked] (George Riner)
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 14:44:13 GMT

Dr. Murphy wondered if 45g/l (by HPLC) was a typo.  I went back and
read the posting and it said 4, not 45.  I suspect that since the
poster actually typed in the character for 'micro', that perhaps some
newsreaders can't correctly render that code as 'µ' and it displayed
as a '5' instead.

Secondly, I'm curious how much credence to give to the claims of the
friends of the victim as to how many were eaten and when.  The report
says that 30-40 were picked and eaten IN THE FIELD at 3:00 a.m.!!
Isn't it kinda dark then?  Were they all stumbling around in the field
with flashlights making careful ID's and keeping good counts of what
they ate?  I'm skeptical.

On Fri, 07 Jun 1996 01:05:39 GMT, [email-masked] (Mycos) wrote:

>[email-masked] (Jack Murphy) wrote:
>
>Must be Dr. Murphy. The info I have is 4 micrograms/ millilitre.
>
>P.S. If your interested (and can read French) , I have the complete
>postmortem report.
>

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From: [email-masked] (Mycos)
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 02:50:44 GMT

[email-masked] (George Riner) wrote:
Does anybody out there have the English translation yet? Please send
the attachement if so.  Thanks

                                   Gary Williams
<[email-masked]>

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From: [email-masked] (David N. Gaines)
Date: 9 Jun 1996 21:35:11 GMT

In commenting on Mr. Gerault's "precisions" posting, Mr. Riner 
>with flashlights making careful ID's and keeping good counts of what
however, if one follows the time line from the sequence which follows, 
one can only conclude that the a.m. was a typo and should have been p.m.
  
David

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From: [email-masked] (Mycos)
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 01:05:39 GMT