From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Mar 7 00:41:43 1999 Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 00:41:43 -0500 (EST) From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 0916533782 0000000961 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From london@sunsite.unc.edu Sat Jan 16 16:33:17 1999 -0500 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA27245 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:33:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA23452 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:11:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA23404 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:10:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA05015 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:10:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.56] (pm3shep1-163-56.intrepid.net [209.190.163.56]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15653; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:10:52 -0500 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:10:52 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: DEMETER on GE Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 THE VOICE OF DEMETER Newsletter of the Demeter Association, Inc. for Certification of Biodynamic Agriculture Britt Road, Aurora, NY 13026, 315-364-5617 ph, 315-364-5224 FAX email: demeter@baldcom.net Winter 1999 No. 9 The acreage planted to GE crops is increasing rapidly. It is estimated that 35% of the U.S. corn and soybean crops grown in 1998 were derived from genetically engineered (GE) seed. This 35% is mixed in the market stream with non-GE crops by the lack of any requirement for segregation or labeling. Tests done by Dr. John Fagan at his Genetic I.D. lab in late 1997 on several corn and soy products found only one that did not contain GE material. That one- was a certified organic soymilk. Corn chips, baby formula, soft drinks, veggie meat substitutes can now unfortunately be assumed to be adulterated with GE material. The Demeter Association, takes the position that genetic engineering applied to agriculture is not only unacceptable, but hazardous. Pur main concerns are as follows: 1) Genetically engineered plant genesI can.cross with wild and domestic relatives, thus over time having the capability to change the genetic makeup of at least some of the world's vegetation. This will likely lead to a loss of native genes, thus diminishing the gene pool. Some plants will contain new genetic material that will result in undesired traits. 2) Insects targeted by plant species engineered to contain built-in insecticide will adapt to the pesticide. This will affect the economic viability of organic and Biodynamic operations. The pesticide most often engineered into plants is Bt (bacillus thuringiensis), a bacterium which affects only the larval state of certain insects and as such has been a mainstay of organic pest control for many years. The eco will have to adjust to plants, insects, and bacteria with new traits. Beneficial insects meanwhile will suffer decline when their paths cross with the new insecticide-expressing plants. 3) A plant so engineered will contain insecticide over its entire lifespan, and even beyond as it falls to the ground to decay. This is a radically different situation from external applications of an insecticide such as Bt which may only be effective for several hours. These engineered plant/pesticide combos will therefore be in our food. We do not know the consequences of this. 4) Gene manipulation requires the use of a Marker to determine if the method was successful. The marker that appears to be most often used is an antibiotic resistant gene. Thus the environment will be exposed to more antibiotic resistance. The result could be resistant bacteria and human bacterial illnesses which antibiotics will not touch. The purpose of much genetic engineering of seed-stocks is to develop plants tolerant to herbicides. Clearly this means that more chemicals will be used on farms, more chemical pollution will migrate into our water supplies, more chemical residues will accumulate in plants, which we then 6) GE plants will contain DNA from undisclosed and non-food sources. Most such crops contain randomly spliced foreign genetic material from viruses, bacteria or other organisms which have never been a part of the human diet. The consequences are unclear. 7) Biotech companies can now breed sterility into their seeds, thanks to a USDA patent. Potentially the world's farmers Must pUrchase each year's seed from biotech companies--; instead of saving their own. Regional self-sufficiency will be history. Nature's cycle of seed to seed will be lost. Biotech companies will have enormous control over our food supply. 8) Adequate testing is not being done. Biotech companies are rushing their products to market at lightning speed. In the process negative results from limited testing are not brought to the public. We are all unconsenting test subjects 9) A widely used common seed supply can spell disaster when a pest penetrates the plant's weakness. The more narrow the crop diversity, the more susceptible is the world to crop failure and hunger. 10) There are no long term benefits to humanity in spite of much publicity to the contrary. For example: a) Cows injected with bovine growth hormone live shorter, more disease ridden lives. Humans who drink the milk are suspected to be in more danger of breast and prostate cancer. b) There are already many stories of crop failure from use of GE seed. These include cotton farmers in the southern U.S., potato growers in Eastern Europe, soybean growers in the U.S. midwest. In addition there are reports from Canada of GE oilseed rape (Camara) and from the UK of corn crosspollinating with nearby non-GE crops of the same species. In the UK an organic farmer apparently lost certification following an incident of cross-pollination. The UK food safety minister is being urged to consider statutory GE-free buffer zones around organic farms. c) An immediate danger is the Roundup tolerant soybean of Monsanto. These soybeans may show a high concentration of Roundup herbicide. 11) The effects of releasing GE crops into the environment are irreversible. 12) Biotech companies promoting this technology apparently have no interest in what might happen to us or to the environment. For these many reasons, the Demeter Association has made genetically manipulated materials off-limits for certification. Most other certifiers have also taken a stand against GE. This is one very important area where the organic certifier community stands for protection of the consumer. Individual farmers cannot require the use of non-GE ingredients when their raw products go to the manufacturer. Certifiers can require this. U.S. consumers have not demanded labeling of GE foods. Only organic certifiers have taken a stand. Some certifiers take more of a stand than others. Our guidelines state in part: "Demeter will not permit the use of transgenic plant or animal products or any derivative in food, feed, or fiber production." But does this apply to processing aids? PAs are ingredients used in food manufacturing which are removed from the final food product. Grain ethanol is one example. Some certifiers allow non-organic sourcing of PAs. Since non-organic more and more means that genetic engineering is present, as in corn used to make ethanol, can this be justified? Use of non-organic PAs, if derived from GE material, or if GE material is used in their manufacture, supports a technology that Demeter does not want to support. This is a hard thing to monitor since manufacturers of secondary ingredients and PAs do not seem very concerned about genetic engineering. And it is a hard stand for Demeter to take if other certifiers do not support the same standard. Consumers need to step up to the plate .... in this case the dinner plate. More wakefulness and more involvement of consumers to demand full disclosure in labeling would at least give us a choice in how we use our food dollars. [Fishberry is taken from a sketch done for Demeter by John McKenzie. A GE berry with fish genes to prevent freezing during cold weather may one day be at your produce stand.] Other GE News Physicians and Scientists for Responsible Application of Science and Technology (PSRAST), a global network, has issued the following statement: "We think that the increasingly powerful influence of industrial interests on science and on approval procedures represents an important threat to the future of the world. This is aggravated by a high degree of specialization along with too little of interdisciplinary and holistic thinking and awareness among most scientific experts. This causes an inability to judge the consequences of a new technology in a comprehensive and realistic way. "In the case of GE foods, there has been a serious neglect of important facts in the expert recommendations underlying approval by international and national regulatory bodies including FAO, FDA, and the EU commission. The result has been a concession to industrial interests at the expense of consumer and ecological safety.... "The PSAGEF campaign for a moratorium (on genetic engineering) will continue. Our focus will remain on the GE foods issue, as it appears to be the most immediate and potentially serious threat." =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy high-value food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org. In the body of the message include (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com (to remove yourself from the list, send 'unsubscribe bdnow' to listproc@envirolink.org> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@sunsite.unc.edu Sun Jan 17 13:58:48 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07179 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11666; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:51:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11440 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:50:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.145] (pm3shep3-163-145.intrepid.net [209.190.163.145]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23205 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:50:53 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19990117120150.30e78a56@swva.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:50:41 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: American Seed Trade Association Meeting Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 No word from Johnny's Selected Seeds on their stance on GE seeds, which is to say, they are making their ambivalance both loud and clear. It won't be that hard for me to not order from them this year, in fact, I'm buying entirely BD seeds (from reputable BD growers!) to the extent that it is possible. Does anyone know of a BD source for GREEN ENVY or any of the other 'edible' SOY BEANS in bulk? Thanks -Allan igg@igg.com From london@sunsite.unc.edu Sun Jan 17 11:22:03 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04907 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:22:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28407; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:15:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ctc.swva.net (ctc.swva.net [165.166.123.19]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28346 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:15:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALNAME (ctca237.vthokies.net [206.153.172.237] (may be forged)) by ctc.swva.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA24250; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:15:59 -0500 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:15:59 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990117120150.30e78a56@swva.net> X-Sender: mgardner@swva.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org, "bdnow@envirolink.org" , "OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU" From: malcolm ian gardner Subject: Re: American Seed Trade Association Meeting Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 At 06:28 PM 1/16/99 -0800, jrei@uswest.net wrote: >Next week I will be leaving for the annual convention of the >American Seed Trade Association meeting in CA. During that >meeting there will be several policy meetings on the >continued use of genetic manipulation in the vegetable seed >industry. There will also be a meeting to put a policy in >place that will decide whether or not GM varieties will be >allowed into the All American Selections vegetable trials. > >This meeting brings togeather all of the major vegetable >seed producers from around the world. >I would like to hear some comments to take with me to the >meeting. > >Joel Reiten >Territorial Seed Company Here's a heretical thought. Why not let the GM varieties in, particularly into the All American Vegetable Trials? I'm not exactly sure what these trials involve, but if they include criteria such as taste, nutritional balance, all-around vigor, or even beauty, I say let them try to compete! What is needed is an objective evaluation of these creations as _whole_ plants. I suspect that, as with most technological innovations, specialized success (e.g., disease resistance, or longer shelf life) has come at the expense of the integrity of the whole plant organism (not to mention the whole ecological and social environment). The key here, however, is objectivity. Assuming the trial process is presently fair and objective, once you include GM varieties, you may open the door to very powerful corrupting pressures. How well will the people in the American Seed Trade Organization be able to resist six figure bribes? Or withdrawal by certain sponsors or advertisers? Or dead cats in their mailboxes? These things would have to be thoroughly discussed in advance. In any case, I don't think this particular genie is going to go back into the bottle. So the only way to contain it is with (accurate) information about the real nature of this genie (pun intended :). Sincerely yours, Malcolm From london@sunsite.unc.edu Mon Jan 18 12:02:30 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24529 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA21101; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:52:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20843 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:50:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <35014-2099>; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:50:31 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:50:30 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: biodynamics Subject: Re: OFF Positive Y2K action from organic farmers (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 Hi All; I thought you would be interested in this Organic farm article for the Washington Tilth Journal... ---Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia emailav204@chebucto.ns.ca Preparing for the Year 2000 by Mark Musick The following article has been submitted for publication in the Washington Tilth journal, January, 1999. Tilth is a Northwest network of organic farmers and gardeners devoted to sustainable agriculture and urban ecology. For more information contact: musick@pikeplacemarket.org (Mark Musick is the farm director of Seattle's Pike Street Market, one of the world's most famous public markets. He is a long-time leader of the nation's sustainable agriculture movement. The points he's making here are of critical interest to the American people. Mark grants permission to distribute this article. -- Larry Shook ) Tilth people have an important role to play in preparing our homes and communities for what may be a stormy few years. After more than two decades of nurturing bonds between people and the Earth, Tilth members are well positioned to assist our families, friends and neighbors in responding to potential impacts of the Year 2000 Computer Problem (Y2K). We are also in a position to help ensure that, rather than a day of chaos January 1, 2000 will be a day of planetary celebration. Whether or not you own a computer, it is becoming increasingly clear that Y2K threatens an economic and social crisis for farmers and consumers alike. I urge you to learn more about Y2K and contribute what you can to minimizing its potential negative impacts. (See box, "Get Informed About Y2K.") To save computer space, starting in the 1950s programmers routinely left out the first two digits for years in clocks that now control computer systems around the world. As the clocks roll over from December 31, 1999 to January 1, 2000, it is anticipated that many of the computers and imbedded chips that control global food, energy, transportation, health care, defense, water and sanitation systems will fail. Time has run out to fix them all. While the full consequences of Y2K are unknown, what is certain is that in the coming year many more people will see the absurdity of our globalized, petroleum-based food system in which the average unit of food travels 1,300 miles from producer to consumer. BE PREPARED "Experts" differ widely on what may happen when clocks strike Midnight on December 31, 1999-from a minor bump in the road to global chaos. The truth will probably lie somewhere in between, but it's important to prepare for as many contingencies as possible. Washington State Emergency Management officials are approaching Y2K as if preparing for a major earthquake. In the event of any major disaster, individual families and local communities must be prepared to be on their own for a minimum of 3 days to a week before government agencies mobilize to fully respond. The basic message from the federal government is, "Don't look to us for help." As far back as 1960, computer scientists began sounding the alarm about the impending Y2K crisis, but they were steadfastly ignored. Last spring Bill Clinton finally set up the President's Council on Year 2000 Conversion. While hoping for the best, behind the scenes senior officials are preparing for disruptions of our nation's technological infrastructure. In a US Information Agency Y2K teleconference held December 17, 1998, Janet Abrams, Executive Director of the President's Council on Year 2000 Conversion, revealed that the US government anticipates "a large series of mild to moderate disruptions across the country.... We are stressing to our local officials that they're going to have to take care of these problems on their own." The federal government will have too many problems of its own to deal with. That became evident with a January 6, 1999 Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) alert urging all public agencies and the general public "to get ready now for Y2K." Over the next few months FEMA will be mobilizing emergency management agencies around the country to develop contingency plans. Y2K will hit computer systems and embedded chips all over the world-all at the same time. As White House Y2K czar John Koskinen said, "We could have, if not the equivalent, something that is very much like a hurricane on the East Coast, an earthquake in San Francisco, and flooding on the Mississippi River all at once." Add to the list typhoons in India, avalanches in the Alps, and tsunamis in Japan. Y2K will hit every industrialized nation as the world enters the year 2000. Speaking about his agency's response to Y2K, USDA Secretary Dan Glickman noted that the work of "tens of thousands of people" is required to feed American families. "I must confess," he said, "that until recently I hadn't thought very much about the connection between food on our tables and computers. But, as a new millennium approaches, that link is becoming all too clear....We are facing the potential of serious disruptions because of the problem." Environmentalist David Brower has said he doesn't think it would be such a bad thing if computers lost their minds and confused the year 2000 for 1900. The difference is that today, like it or not, we are inescapably part of a culture in which all major life support systems are governed by computers. Yes, within a few days, weeks, months---or years---these systems will be repaired. But in the meantime there could be severe disruption and suffering. This is where Tilth people come in. News about the potential impacts of Y2K is galvanizing increased concern for personal and community self-reliance, both in this country and around the world. Generally living closer to the land, Tilth farmers and gardeners are often in good positions to provide for their own needs and link with their neighbors to build strong, resilient communities. FOOD SECURITY The frustrating thing about Y2K is that we won't know its full impact until January of next year. "This daunting challenge," says Spokane writer Larry Shook, "is not unlike floating on a river with a waterfall and a point of no return beyond which exit is impossible. The difference: with Y2K we won't know if rapids or a thundering cataract awaits us until we're beyond the point of no return." What may lie on the other side of that "point of no return"? One of the people who has looked hard at potential worst case scenarios is biologist Geri Guidetti, founder of the Ark Institute (PO Box 142, Oxford, OH 45056). "Over the past three years," writes Guidetti, "I have been sounding an alarm that our food supply is much less safe and secure than any of us can imagine, largely due to vulnerabilities wrought by the same technology that has brought us so much food. We've created a monster, and the monster's about to get sick." Guidetti's December, 1998 "Food Supply Update" (www.arkinstitute.com ) is both sobering and frightening. In it she reviews the abysmal preparedness levels of federal agencies charged with securing our food supply. Y2K problems for farmers include potential shortages of fuel to run farm equipment, failures of embedded chips in tractors and combines, and shortages of fertilizers and pesticides if chemical companies are shut down by computer failures. Of particular concern to Guidetti is the potential for seed shortages. "Our entire human food supply is based on plants and plant seeds," she notes. "New, hybrid and non-hybrid seeds produced in 1999 for the year 2000 crop may not reach all who need it due to transportation and distribution breakdowns....Distribution of diesel fuel and gasoline supplies to run farm machinery may be undependable. Seasonal planting deadlines would be missed. Seeds or no seeds, many crops would not get planted, and that would prove deadly for 2001. That year would be worse than 2000." TILTH'S RESPONSE TO Y2K If Guidetti is even close to right, we have our work cut out for us starting right now. Long before midnight next December 31st each of us needs to reach out to strengthen linkages with our families, neighborhoods and larger communities to ensure food security for all. As the year 2000 approaches, increased fear of disruption or even collapse of our global economy and infrastructure is likely to lead to increased interest in securing food supplies. There are many practical ways in which Tilth people can respond. First, farmers should anticipate greater demand for storage crops next fall by planting more potatoes, squash, carrots, beets, etc. This is also the year to build root cellars to provide for long term storage and extending your market season. Food preservation and storage will be of major interest this year, and Tilth people can take the lead in teaching people about canning, root cellaring, and other means of putting food by. In addition to stored food, farmers and gardeners west of the Cascades have an opportunity to make 1999 the "Year of the Winter Garden." With Binda Colebrook's Winter Gardening in the Maritime Northwest and Seattle Tilth's Maritime Northwest Garden Guide, we now have the knowledge of crop varieties and timing necessary to produce a year-round abundance of fresh vegetables in our region. Come January, 2000 hundreds of gardens and small farms throughout Western Washington and Oregon can be filled with cabbages, kale, leeks, carrots, parsnips, broccoli, onions, and cold-hardy winter greens. This would go a long way toward alleviating concerns about shortages of fresh vegetables next winter. Responding to Guidetti's concern about impending seed shortages, Tilth people should also join world-wide efforts to grow and preserve open-pollinated seeds. In addition to storage crops and winter vegetables, this is also the year to plant a "seed garden" to help save our genetic heritage (see "Millennium Seed Garden" box). Note that seeds are likely to be in short supply this year. Local seed companies are already reporting a sharp increase in demand, so I urge you to order your seeds for the year now. As more and more consumers seek to secure their food supplies,1999 is also going to be a great year to promote Community Supported Agriculture. Individual CSAs are encouraged to reach out and include more consumers. More and more farmers are also forming cooperative CSAs, greatly expanding the potential impact of the movement. Throughout the season CSA farms can be educating their customers about food preservation. Some are also planning on providing special "Thanksgiving Shares" next November for people who want additional reserves for winter storage. The CSA movement is a powerful tool for building support for local agriculture. Not only do CSAs directly link producers with consumers, but they're also a great way to spread the word about the necessity of preserving both farmers and farmland. In the process, they foster a greater sense of security and self-reliance throughout the region. Everyone can contribute to the process of creating what are being called "resilient communities." Tilth people have an abundance of experience and skills to share, and many people will be looking to us for guidance and leadership in the coming year. Tilth people are already taking leadership roles in assisting their communities in preparing for Y2K. Groups on Whidbey Island and in Spokane, Washington are undertaking projects which are excellent models of positive community responses to potential infrastructure breakdowns. South Whidbey Tilth members are actively involved in what they're calling the "Community Resilience Project." In addition to hosting Y2K Forums to inform residents about the issues, they have organized into more than a dozen action groups to inventory their island's resources through a process called Community Asset Mapping. Sectors they are addressing include transportation, communications, public safety, water, financial services, and health care. Whidbey Island Tilth members Prescott and Michael Seraphinoff are taking responsibility for the energy and food sectors of the asset mapping. In Spokane a grassroots organization has created the "Y2K Neighborhood Project." Their goal is to prepare Spokane County, house-by-house, block-by-block, to be ready for whatever may happen when the "millennium bug" bites. Dr Kent Hoffman, a Spokane psychotherapist, is one of the initiators of the Y2K Neighborhood Project. According to Dr Hoffman, "Y2K Neighborhood is setting out to create miniature villages among every five or six houses on every block in the county. It's a way in which we can come together, plan together, look out for each other during this time of uncertainty." "All we're really talking about," he said, "is polishing up our neighborhood skills." Farmer preparedness for Y2K will be one of the central themes of the annual Washington Farmers Markets Conference, set for March 1 & 2. Larry Shook, editor of Awakening, the Upside of Y2K, will be one of our keynote speakers. The conference will also include special workshops on storage crops and on-farm storage, greenhouse production, winter gardening, seed production and saving, and Community Supported Agriculture. I hope that preparation for Y2K will be on the agenda of all farm conferences and workshops this winter and spring to mobilize the involvement of farmers in community resilience projects throughout the country. I see Y2K as an opportunity to wake people up to things that already need to be done-preserving farmland, supporting local farmers, and striving for greater regional self-reliance. The more that neighbors work and grow together the better off everyone will be, whether or not disaster strikes. Expanding CSAs, strengthening bonds between producers and consumers, growing more storage crops and winter vegetables, preserving food and saving seeds---if we do all these things, we will definitely have cause to celebrate the Year 2000! BOX GET INFORMED ABOUT Y2K A flood of reliable information is now becoming available about the causes and potential consequences of Y2K. The first step in formulating your personal response is to get fully informed. Here are some good starting points: Y2K Citizen's Action Guide, Preparing yourself, your family, and your neighborhood for the year 2000 computer problem and beyond, by the Utne Reader. This is the single best tool for education and action. It is available for $4.95 everywhere the Utne Reader is sold (although you may have to ask for it). To help spread Y2K awareness in your community, order 50 copies at a time for $57.50 from Bulk Orders, Utne Reader, 1624 Harmon Place, Minneapolis, MN 55403. Awakening: The Upside of Y2K, edited by Judy Laddon, Tom Atlee and Larry Shook, is an excellent overview of the technical, economic and social implications of the Y2K Bug. It emphasizes positive steps individuals and communities can take to minimize adverse impacts. $13 post paid from The Printed Word, 4327 S Perry, Spokane, WA 99203, (509) 747-8776. They are also a source of on-going information about Spokane's Y2K Neighborhood Project. "Y2K: So Many Bugs...So Little Time," Peter de Jager, Scientific American, January, 1999. An authoritative current report on the status of Y2K preparations. I hope it is widely read. "Farming & the Year 2000 Problem," Agriculture & Natural Resources Fact Sheet #512, WSU Cooperative Extension King County, 700 Fifth Ave, Suite 3700, Seattle, WA 98104-5037, phone (206) 296-3900. Excellent overview of the Y2K problem. Includes basic action steps and sources of additional information. "Farmers Markets in the Year 2000," Washington Farmers Markets Conference, March 1 & 2, 1999. This conference will include several presentations on farmer preparedness for Y2K. For details contact Mark Musick, Pike Place Market, 85 Pike Street, Rm 500, Seattle, WA 98101, phone: (206) 682-7453, e-mail: musick@pikeplacemarket.org. South Whidbey Tilth members Prescott and Michael Seraphinoff can provide information on the South Whidbey Community Resilience Project. They can be reached at 3830 S 530 E, Greenbank, WA 98253, (360) 678-4168. www.y2kcommunity.org is one of the best starting points to learn about Y2K on the web. It includes current articles and links to other sites. BOX PLANT A MILLENNIUM VICTORY GARDEN! One of the most important things Tilth farmers and gardeners can do is grow our own seeds. By growing open pollinated varieties, each of us can help ensure viable supplies of seeds in the coming years. Inspired by Tom John's proposal for "Millennium Victory Gardens" in the Territorial Seed Catalog, Lana Baker, seed specialist with Molbak's Seattle Garden Center (1600 Pike Place, Seattle, WA 98101, phone 206-448-0431), compiled the following list of her recommended varieties. While growers will debate their favorites, and these varieties may not be suitable throughout the region, please consider this list as a starting point for creating your own seed garden. Asian Greens - Ching Chang, Mizuna Beans - Blue Lake Pole, Fava, Jacob's Cattle Beets - Detroit Dark Red, Albina Verduna, Golden Broccoli - Waltham, Nutri-Bud, Purple Sprouting Brussels Sprouts - Rubine Red, Long Island Cabbage - Early Jersey Wakefiel, Danish Ballhead Carrots - Red Core Chantenay, Armstrong Collards - Champion Corn - Bantam Corn Salad - Mache Cucumber - Sweet Marketmore 76, Lemon Cucumber Eggplant - Imperial Black Beauty Kale - Russian Red Leeks - King Richard, Giant Mussleburg Lettuce - Black Seeded Simpson, Four Seasons, Winter Density Onions - Breakthru, Walla Walla Peas, Shelling - Pioneer, Alderman, Maestro Peas, Snap - Sugar Daddy, Sugar Snap Peas, Sugar - Oregon Sugar Pod II, Oregon Giant Peppers - Early California Wonder, Chile Relleno, Cayenne Pumpkins - Small Sugar, Rouge vif D'Etampes Spinach - Winter Bloomsdale Squash, Summer - Bennings Green Tint, Black Beauty Zucchini Squash, Winter - Red Kuri, Butternut, Delicata, Blue Hubbard, Sweet Meat Swiss Chard - Rainbow Mix Tomatoes - Brandywine, Stupice, Mortgage Lifter, Seattle's Best of All, Yellow Pear, Sweetie Watermelon - Sugar Baby BOX CREATING ABUNDANCE Seventeen years ago Tilth published a sourcebook for sustainable agriculture called The Future Is Abundant. In mid December of last year a group of Tilth and Permaculture activists met to discuss the need and potential for a sequel for the new millennium. Out of those discussions came a proposal to produce a new sourcebook with the working title, Creating Abundance, Ecological Agriculture in the Pacific Northwest. In the nearly two decades since the original book's publication, there has been an explosion of experience and information in all aspects of sustainable agriculture. Creating Abundance will draw on the wealth of knowledge of Tilth people throughout the region. To make the process of researching and writing the new edition immediately useful in the context of Y2K, a proposal is being drafted to publish Creating Abundance in both book form and an interactive web site. If you would like more information on Creating Abundance, contact Mark Musick at the Pike Place Market. Tom Atlee * The Co-Intelligence Institute * Oakland, CA http://www.co-intelligence.org * http://www.co-intelligence.org/Y2K.html Sheri Nakken Coordinator - Western Nevada County Y2K Preparedness Network **VISIT OUR NEW BOOKSTORE ONLINE*** http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/wncy2k.htm PO Box 1563, Nevada City, California 95959 Phone 530-478-1242 Business Owner - Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours Broadcaster/DJ/Reporter - KVMR FM, Nevada City, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. From london@sunsite.unc.edu Mon Jan 18 13:44:14 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA01647 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:44:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05366; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:34:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04840 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:30:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.75]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA2467; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:22:02 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990118103024.00b5a1b0@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:30:24 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Re: re silica Cc: Maltman Family In-Reply-To: <36941D66.88D5FCE9@better.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 Dear Sue, At 09:35 PM 1/6/99 -0500, Maltman Family wrote: >My Solution: I had read about polymerized water ( not Kurt Vonnegut's >"Ice-9") and when I saw some for sale at the local farmer's market I >decided to try it out. I bought a little bag of crystal powder for $5 >and made a big gallon of the jello-like stuff. Then I went up to the >roof and added it to the soil in the containers by drilling 6" holes in >the dirt next to the stems down to the roots, pouring in the goop, and >pluging the holes with compost. The soil stayed wet for days. As I >water, the polymerized stuff binds up more molecules and holds it in >the soil, replacing itself as the roots drink it up. Amazing. I bet >you could add it to your houseplants and then leave town for a month. I have heard of polymerized water in other contexts before but never in this connection. Can you give me more information on this product and how to obtain it? What exactly is it? Who makes it? What claims do they make? The ORMUS elements will form a polymer of water too. Perhaps the phenomena is related. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 Stupidity got us into this mess -- why can't it get us out? From london@sunsite.unc.edu Mon Jan 18 19:36:11 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA07956 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA23933; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:27:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23634 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:25:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <35413-2092>; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:26:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:26:20 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re:Stinging Nettles In-Reply-To: <199901182044.MAA01592@f70.hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 Hi Michael; On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, you wrote: > > Urtica -Stinging Nettles > > The most curious thing I have found is that one of my dogs, during > winter and early spring, when the nettle has dried, will Chew it. I > still haven't figured out how he can do that, or better still, why? One of the specific indications for using the remedy Urtica Urens (diocia, has similar if not identical properties) is congestion/discharge from intestinal mucous surfaces, so its cleansing properties in the urinary tract would probably have a relationship to the innate ability which animals(when allowed) have to search/graze for appropiate herbs and plants when needed. Urtica U prevents calculi as it acts by thickening the urine which contains deposits of urates and other salts and also promotes normal urination. ------------------------ Jane Sherry sent me this interesting snip on Nettles: > Nettle note: Urtica is apparently also very efficient in the >filtering of metals, minerals and waste materials from contaminated >water, storing these substances in its plant fibers and cleansing water >supplies. It is an excellent candidate for organic waste treatment and >detoxification systems. >Many of the materials it collects can be recovered afterward from the >dead plant matter. ----------------- In Lecture 5 Steiner mentions that Nettles like iron, and planting nettles in out of the way spots can do a great deal in freeing the upper layer of soil from the influence of iron. He mentions that it does not get rid of the iron but undermines it affect on other plants. He says more on the subject but we can wait until we get to that Lecture for discussion..... ---Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia email:av204@chebucto.ns.ca From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Jan 24 18:08:33 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA29021 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:08:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA08900; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:02:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from send206.yahoomail.com (send206.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA16691 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:45:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990124204544.7365.rocketmail@send206.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.205.40.10] by send206.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:45:44 PST Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:45:44 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: rosecrutions,anthropo etc. To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 dear all, I have been reading various comments about the ego/spirit and the various elements. I have also gotten the idea from Glen Atkinson and others that there may be different views and or practices from various groups with different perspectives on these matters. Though I live in Charlottesville va. near the Univ of Va (thomas Jefferson country) library, I have not found much info on the rosecrutions, and am left only able to study the ancient egyptian views from archaelogical books etc. Do any of you all have things you want to share with me about the philosophical/spiritual/material views in regard to similarities or differences. Also, I have been unable to find anything specific of rosecrutions, even after viewing their website. Maybe they are waiting for my monetary contributioon. I am just as much interested in modern groups as ancient views. Anyone with an opinion or internet link to share can write me directly or if it seems relevant, share it with the group. bruce ritchie edophan@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Jan 24 21:09:08 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA02103 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:09:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA11436; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:02:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02026 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:09:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-78.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.78]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA28906; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:10:10 +1100 Message-ID: <00ce01be47ff$697a2e00$4e431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: "Peter Proctor" , Subject: Re: Biodynamic newsletters and journals Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:09:16 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 Dear Allan, The address and phone no etc for Australia need correcting, see below. Thanks, NZ is also changed, see Gareth Bodles email. Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: steved@ncatark.uark.edu Date: Saturday, 23 January 1999 3:33 pm Subject: Re: Biodynamic newsletters and journals >IN a similar vein, I have this list of biodynamic associations which >started wit the one in the back of Peter Proctor's "Grasp the Nettle." If >you can fill in the any of the missing associations, email addresses, or >give current officers, please do. I'll get this information mounted on the >web page soon. -Allan > > >New Zealand The BioDynamic Farming and Gardening Association in New >Zealand (Inc.), PO Box 306, Napier, phone/fax 068352428 > >Australia The Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Association, PO Box 54, Bellingen. 2454 NSW Australia P/F + 2 66558551 email poss@midcoast.com.au > >USA Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association, Inc, Building 1002B, >Thoreau Center, The Presidio, P.O. Box 29135, San Francisco, CA >94129-0135, 415-561-7797, 415-561-7796 Fax, biodynamic@aol.com >Canada Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Society of British Columbia, Skimikin >Road, CDN-Chase, BC VOE 1MO, phone 604 679 8052, fax 604 679 2932 > >Germany Forschungsring fur biol.-dyn. Wirtschaftsweise, Brandschneise 2, >D-64295 Darmstadt, phone (06155) 84690, fax (06155) 846 911 > >Great Britain Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Association, Woodman Land, Clent, >GB-Stourbridge, West Midlands DY9 9PX, phone 562 884 933, fax 562 886 219 > >Ireland Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Association in Ireland, Ballinroan House, >IRL-Kiltegan, Co. Wicklow, fax 508 81006 > >South Africa Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Association of Southern Africa PO >Box 115, Paulshof, South Africa 2056, phone 11 8031688 > > > >=========================================================================== > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food >that promotes human development. > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > >listproc@envirolink.org > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > >subscribe bdnow > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Jan 25 01:25:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA05961 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:25:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA18032; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:18:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17913 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:17:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA05917 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:22:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA21420 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:18:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:18:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: New Soil Quality discussion forum (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 I have created a forum called SOIL QUALITY (soil-quality@franklin.oit.unc.edu) for discussion of such topics as soil quality, soil science, soil amendments, minerals, micronutrients, macronutrients, compost, rock powders, microbiological innoculants, application of manure/seaweed/grass/grain/bean/weed, cover crops, tillage, irrigation, biodynamics, blended fertilizers and anything else appropriate. Access; ------- general information is available at: http://metalab.oit.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt (subscribe/read/post) http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=soil-quality&text_mode (subscribe/unsubscribe via email) send email to lyris@franklin.oit.unc.edu in message text include the following words: subscribe soil-quality (posting to the list subscribers) send email to soil-quality@franklin.oit.unc.edu (read/post via newsgroup) news://franklin.oit.unc.edu/soil-quality Lawrence F. London, Jr., list administrator http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Jan 25 17:07:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24291 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:07:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA29600; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:00:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA29238 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:58:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.228] (pm3mbr2-66-146.intrepid.net [206.102.66.146]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03738 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:58:56 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:57:20 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Consequences of Chemical Farming Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 [The merits of organic, biodynamic & other "alternative" techniques are only half of the argument for changing from so-called "modern" agriculture. The other half is mounting evidence of how the agri-industry system (fertilizers, biocides & GE) is bringing us to a toxic dead-end. Here's an Associated Press article carried in today's Washington Post. --John Spencer, Herndon VA] Midwest Farm Runoff Causes 'Dead Zone' in Gulf, Scientists Say By Paul Recer Associated Press As printed in The Washington Post Monday, January 25, 1999; Page A07 ANAHEIM, Calif., Jan. 24--A 7,000-square-mile dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico caused by the runoff of fertilizer is getting worse and the only solution may be to change farming practices throughout the Corn Belt, according to scientists. Every spring and summer, nitrogen from agricultural fertilizer washes down the Mississippi River and into the northern Gulf of Mexico. The nutrient-rich waters trigger a bloom of algae that strips the water of oxygen. Researchers attending the national meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science this weekend said that by midsummer, an area of the Gulf extending from Louisiana to Texas becomes so oxygen-deprived that most fish and shrimp escape to healthier waters, leaving behind a vast "dead zone." Nancy N. Rabalais of Louisiana State University said the average size of the dead zone has doubled in size since 1992 and is now persisting from May until October in some areas. Shrimp, menhaden and other valuable species have not been affected because these animals simply flee the bad water, said Rabalais. But bottom-dwellers, such as worms, starfish and some single-celled animals, are killed. At the same time, some microbes that prefer low-oxygen waters explode, forming a white, cotton-like mass that floats on the surface. "We don't know what the long-term effects of this will be on the ecology of the gulf," said Rabalais. "The hypoxia [lack of oxygen] has decimated a number of organisms living in the sediments" and such a change is bound to affect the ecology of the gulf, she said. The Mississippi River drains about 40 percent of the United States and carries more than a million tons of nitrogen, according to U.S. Geological Survey figures. Some of the nitrogen dumped into the gulf comes from natural sources and from cities and industry, but "agriculture uses 6.5 million metric tons of nitrogen a year and is clearly a major player." Doering said farmers could reduce nitrogen runoff by 20 percent by changing farm management practices. He said the goal could be reached if farmers stopped fertilizing in the fall and if major wetlands were restored along the Mississippi River watershed. Wetlands retain the nitrogen and the chemical then tends to disappear into the atmosphere, Doering said. The wetlands also would increase wildlife habitat and improve water quality. Using less fertilizer would reduce crop yield, and a 20 percent reduction is about the limit before there would be serious economic consequences for farmers and the nation, according to a scientific assessment by Doering and others. "Beyond 20 percent," Doering said, "there is a serious disruption in terms of high food prices, an increasing drop in exports and a loss of farmland." Copyright 1999 The Associated Press =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Jan 25 17:15:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24675 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:15:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA00951; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:09:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-punt-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.36]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00432 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:05:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 104u9d-00040l-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:06:46 +0000 Message-ID: <36ACBAA2.98F35803@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:40:34 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BDNow Subject: GMOs in the South Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 FORWARDED The Debate on Genetically Modified Organisms: Relevance for the South By Robert Tripp at the Overseas Development Institute, UK Genetically modified organisms (GMOs) are at the centre of extraordinary controversy. The implications of these debates must be addressed by policy makers in the South, according to the latest Overseas Development Institute Briefing Paper. Concerns about GMOs include environmental impact, food safety, the control of agricultural technology, and the direction of agricultural change. Some of these issues require a strengthening of current regulatory systems while others can be addressed by well-informed agricultural policy and legal reform. But adequate regulatory and policy responses depend upon the generation and utilisation of good quality information. http://www.oneworld.org/odi/briefing/1_99.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Jan 25 18:07:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA25881 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:07:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA07833; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:01:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mercurio.racsa.co.cr (mercurio.racsa.co.cr [207.1.120.69]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07438 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:58:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from sol.racsa.co.cr (nheredia2-a11.racsa.co.cr [196.40.10.73]) by mercurio.racsa.co.cr (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18831 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:01:49 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36AD13A6.3D427184@sol.racsa.co.cr> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:00:22 -0800 From: Henry Karczynski Organization: Valle Orquideas SA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Biodynamic orgs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Thanks for this information, Tony. > > Does anyone have an address, etc for the BRAZILIAN BD group? > > -Allan The Brazilian BD group is as follows; Instituto Biodinamico de Desenvolvimiento Rural Caixa Postal 321-18603-970 Botuccatu / SP - Brazil fone/fax + 55 14 822 5066 / + 55 14 975 9011 fax + 55 14 822 3848 e mail: abd@ax.ibase.org.br Hank Karczynski From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Jan 25 19:53:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27619 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:53:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA22150; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:47:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mnsinc.com (relay1.mnsinc.com [206.55.3.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21671 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:44:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from lizard (a0073.chantilly.mns.net [206.239.104.105]) by relay1.mnsinc.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA22899 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:45:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:45:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990125194046.08875c1c@mail.mnsinc.com> X-Sender: jspencer@mail.mnsinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: JSpencer Subject: OFF: Echinacea and Other Herbs-Wisconsin Seminar Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 >Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:07:39 EST >Sender: Organic Gardening Discussion List >From: Barbara Birkinbine >Subject: Echinacea and Other Herbs-Wisconsin Seminar > >A growers seminar for Echinacea and other herbs will be held on February 12 at >UW-Madison School of Agriculture. The seminar will run from 8:30 am to 5:00 >pm with various specialists providing information on each topic. > >A background of various species will be presented along with information on >seed acquisition, germination techniques, growing, planting, and maintenance >of the crop. >If you are interested in attending this seminar contact >Robert Brule at 608/873-6222 or Therese Boberg at 608/224-5137 >Hope to see you there. >Barb Birkinbine >Oak Camp Herb Farm >OakCamp@aol.com > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 00:10:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA01928 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:10:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA25112; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:03:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from edtnps05.telusplanet.net (edtnps05.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.105]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17432 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:47:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from edtntnt1-port-337.agt.net ([161.184.193.83]:1026 "HELO blum") by edtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <549507-13597>; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:48:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01be48de$fbd78e20$53c1b8a1@blum> From: "The Blumhagen's" To: Subject: Ringworm in Cattle Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:37:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 Hello, I am a 16 year old farm boy from Alberta, Canada, and presently own a few breeding cows. My father found that my two year old cow just recently formed ringworm patches around her eyes. I noticed the letters being exchanged regarding ringworm in humans and wondered if perhaps anyone had any information on a treatment for ringworm on cows. My father and I were going to apply an antibacterial type cream to her soars but if there was an alternative I could try and experiment with I would try it first. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sincerly, Levi Blumhagen From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 08:56:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA06549 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:56:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA25218; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com (teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com [139.134.5.173]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA25153 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:03:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id aa287092 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:01:05 +1000 Received: from WBBH-T-003-p-166-181.tmns.net.au ([139.134.166.181]) by mail0.bigpond.com (Claudes-Off-Shore-MailRouter V2.2a); 26 Jan 1999 15:01:04 From: "Maritza de Oliveira and Angela Medeiros" To: Subject: Brazilian BD web site Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:25:14 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <05010514045641@domain0.bigpond.com> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Allan The Brazilian Instituto Biodinamico de Desenvolvimento Rural have a web site. www.laser.com.br/ibd/ I hope you can read Portugues! Or you can write to: Caixa Postal 321 - Bairro Demétria - CEP 18603-970 - Botucatu - SP - Brasil . Fone/Fax: ( 014) 821-1739 But if you have any problem, let me know. I'll be happy to help you with the translation. Best Wishes Angela From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 08:56:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA06564 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:56:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA25322; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:50:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from fh106.infi.net (fh106.infi.net [209.97.16.33]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA24843 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:46:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from 208.129.61.28 (pm1-28.1v5.infi.net [208.129.61.28]) by fh106.infi.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA31072 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:47:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36ADBAC4.10E7@bouldernews.infi.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:53:28 -0600 From: Paul Frazier Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle References: <000a01be48de$fbd78e20$53c1b8a1@blum> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 The Blumhagen's wrote: > > Hello, > > I am a 16 year old farm boy from Alberta, Canada, and presently own a few > breeding cows. My father found that my two year old cow just recently formed > ringworm patches around her eyes. I noticed the letters being exchanged > regarding ringworm in humans and wondered if perhaps anyone had any > information on a treatment for ringworm on cows. My father and I were going > to apply an antibacterial type cream to her soars but if there was an > alternative I could try and experiment with I would try it first. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Sincerly, > Levi Blumhagen Dear Levi, In humans, ringworm makes patches of red rings with a clear center that is dry and scaly. These patches rarely turn into sores unless they have been there for a very long time and the person has scratched them. Are you sure that this is what your cow has? I don't know as much about cows as humans but it's just a thought. Also, ringworm is a fungal organism and probably won't respond to an antibacterial cream unless it also contains antifungal medication as well. I would try TEA TREE oil on the sores a little at a time so you can see if she is allergic to it. In some people Tea Tree oil is somewhat irritating and will make a skin condition worse before it can help. Hope this helps Pat Frazier From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 09:45:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07496 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:45:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01321; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:39:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00997 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:37:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.162] (pm3mbr2-66-162.intrepid.net [206.102.66.162]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14735 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:38:32 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:34:15 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 Levi, ringworm is a fungal infection, specific types of fungi called dermatophytes, which infect hair follicles &/or the hair shafts themselves. Antibacterial creams will have no effect against the fungus. Ringworm infection often signals an underlying stress or nutritional deficiency - we see this infection most commonly during the winter, when cattle are being fed stored feeds (hay, silage, etc.). Often, these feeds are low in Vitamin A - either it was present in low levels when the feed was put up, or it has degraded over time. I'd recommend giving your cow an injection of Vitamin A, and perhaps an injection of a Vitamin E/Selenium preparation, unless your mineral supplementation program addresses these two nutrients(VitE/Se). Check with your veterinarian regarding these treatments, and he may have an antifungal preparation which you can apply topically to the lesions. Back when I was in veterinary practice, we used to use thiabendazole (TBZ) paste as a topical antifungal agent - TBZ had lost its effectiveness as a dewormer, but still worked quite nicely as an antifungal agent. Good Luck Louis L. "Lucky" Pittman, Jr., DVM Veterinary Pathologist Murray State University Breathitt Veterinary Center Hopkinsville, KY Email: Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 09:45:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07507 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01399; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:40:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01017 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:37:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.162] (pm3mbr2-66-162.intrepid.net [206.102.66.162]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14754 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:38:35 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:35:08 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 Ringworm has been a problem on our ranch with our showstring of registered Santa Gertrudis cattle. I will be interested in seeing the traffic on this issue. We treat with MILD iodine/captan (garden plant antifungal)/novalsan spray or paste (arioound eyese yse paste) EVERY OTHER day for a week or 2. Seems to do the job but ringworm spreads like wildfire so new areas crop up. Keep your animal isolated during active cases or the whole herd will have ringworm. My vet suggests eliminating the iodine because it is easy to remove hair with even a mild iodine mixture. I still use the iodine in hopes I can clear up sooner. Beware, use mild (say 1/2 %) and every other day. HayWire Ranch Republic of Texas >Hello, > >I am a 16 year old farm boy from Alberta, Canada, and presently own a few >breeding cows. My father found that my two year old cow just recently formed >ringworm patches around her eyes. I noticed the letters being exchanged >regarding ringworm in humans and wondered if perhaps anyone had any >information on a treatment for ringworm on cows. My father and I were going >to apply an antibacterial type cream to her soars but if there was an >alternative I could try and experiment with I would try it first. > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. > >Sincerly, >Levi Blumhagen > > > >=========================================================================== > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food >that promotes human development. > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > >listproc@envirolink.org > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > >subscribe bdnow > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 09:48:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07565 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:48:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01730; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:42:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01388 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.162] (pm3mbr2-66-162.intrepid.net [206.102.66.162]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15252 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:41:05 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:40:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Action Alert:Toxic Sludge Labeling Bill in Congress (please post) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 National Sludge Alliance, Box 130, Copake, NY 12516 Action Alert Send letters to Your Representatives to co-sponsor Food Labeling Bill and ask Senators to introduce a companion bill. Introduced in the House of Representatives on January 6, 1999 by Mr. Jose Serrano and referred to the Committee on Commerce, and the Committee on Agriculture. SAMPLE LETTER In Support of HR 262 food labeling bill that provides consumers the basic "right to know" Dear Representative/Senator -------------, I am writing to express my strong support for HR 262, introduced by Representative Jose Serrano, to amend the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act and the egg, meat, and poultry inspection laws to ensure that consumers receive notification regarding food crops, livestock, or poultry raised on land on which sewage sludge was applied. The federal ban on the ocean dumping of sludge without an investigation of alternatives and mandating enforceable safe methods and processes has put food, water, farmland, and consumers at risk. To meet the huge demand for cheap land-based sludge disposal, sludge generators and processors are aggressively promoting industrial contaminated sludge as an agricultural fertilizer. Sludge is a toxic soup of industrial and household chemicals. Materials discharged to sewage treatment plants consist of residential, industrial, hospital wastes, runoff from streets and farmlands, and in some cases landfill leachates including Superfund sites. These wastes contain varying degrees of pathogens, heavy metals, man-made organic chemicals such as PCBs, dioxins, pharmaceuticals, industrial solvents, detergents, asbestos, and radioactive wastes. The EPA is promoting growing food on these contaminants without telling the public. As a consumer the decision to expose my family to this risk should rest with me and not a state or federal bureaucracy. I urge your support and sponsorship of a companion bill in the Senate. This is a food labeling bill (HR 262) that will provide consumers with a basic "right to know". I look forward to your timely reply to this request. Sincerely, Debbie Dunbar Ortman National Field Organizer Organic Consumers Association 3547 Haines Rd. Duluth, MN 55811 (218) 726-1443 (218) 726-1446 Fax safefood@cp.duluth.mn.us http://www.purefood.org Join the Organic Consumers Association in your local area. If you want to become a member or a volunteer--or make a donation--call (218)726-1443 To subscribe to the free electronic newsletter, Food Bytes, send an email to: majordomo@mr.net with the simple message: subscribe pure-food-action =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 11:05:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10618 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:05:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14959; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:59:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14740 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:58:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.20.176]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990126155830.ETXG23625@default>; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:58:30 +0000 Message-ID: <36ADE84C.234B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:07:40 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net, sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Notice: Biodynamic Farming Conference in Eustis, Florida X-URL: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray&id=15621.224963454105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 Dear Listfolk, A two-day annual Conference on the principles and practical usage of Biodynamic Farming methods will take place in Eustis, Florida on January 30-31, 1999, at the Farm of Bob Luzader. Several very experienced BD authors and longtime farmers will be there, with tons of practical farming information to share and discuss with attendees. Both days consist of several lectures, demonstrations and practical, experiential workshops taught by experienced farmers using BD methods. Attendees to this annual gathering include beekeepers, farmer/dowsers, small family farmers, organic and sustainable farmers, veterinarians, nurserymen and home gardeners. All attendees are encouraged to bring their questions, observations and ideas. All who have an interest in Biodynamics or who seek further information about this method of farming/stewardship in harmony with the energies of Nature are welcome to attend. Registration is $50. for the weekend, and $25 or something close to that for a single day (Call Bob to check the one-day reg, and let the phone ring awhile, he may be out in the field.) Contact Bob Luzader at (352) 589-4606 for further info and directions. Attendees can stay overnight on the grounds (verify this with Bob); Bring your tent. Hotel rooms available (~$38./night) in the nearby town of Eustis. I do highly recommend this excellent conference to anyone seeking further usable, practical information on Biodynamic or Sustainable farming methods. Regards, Linda PS: This message posted also on the US Organic Agriculture Message Board at: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray. and on the BDNOW and Sanet Mailing Lists. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 11:20:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10981 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:20:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17431; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:14:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd103.hotmail.com [207.82.252.167]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16809 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:10:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 2154 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 1999 16:11:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990126161108.2153.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.146.195.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:11:07 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.146.195.2] From: "lloyd kinder" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: glyphosate Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:11:07 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 Hi Margaret. Re epilepsy, IAHP, which has successfully worked with curing brain-injured kids of all kinds, even Downs kids, has a report called [I think] "A Bill of Particulars on Seizures and the Discontinuance of Anti-convulsant Drugs." I think their website is www.iahp.org. The report says anti-convulsant drugs cause convulsions to get worse in the long run. They ask parents to take their kids off of these drugs and to adopt a nutritious diet. They used to favor a vegetarian diet, but I don't know if that's still true. They certainly advise against junk foods. Best wishes for your daughter. Aloha. Lloyd >Hi there >I am a new member to bdnow and would like some up- to- date info on the >effects of glyphosate on people. >My 18yr old daughter became epileptic approx 12months ago and by accident >she found it is 'Round Up' (which has the active ingredient gyyphosate) >which causes her epilepsy. ... >Margaret ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jan 26 11:59:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12130 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:59:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22082 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:59:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22068 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07490 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:59:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.20.176]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990126155830.ETXG23625@default>; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:58:30 +0000 Message-ID: <36ADE84C.234B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:07:40 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net, sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Notice: Biodynamic Farming Conference in Eustis, Florida X-URL: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray&id=15621.224963454105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 Dear Listfolk, A two-day annual Conference on the principles and practical usage of Biodynamic Farming methods will take place in Eustis, Florida on January 30-31, 1999, at the Farm of Bob Luzader. Several very experienced BD authors and longtime farmers will be there, with tons of practical farming information to share and discuss with attendees. Both days consist of several lectures, demonstrations and practical, experiential workshops taught by experienced farmers using BD methods. Attendees to this annual gathering include beekeepers, farmer/dowsers, small family farmers, organic and sustainable farmers, veterinarians, nurserymen and home gardeners. All attendees are encouraged to bring their questions, observations and ideas. All who have an interest in Biodynamics or who seek further information about this method of farming/stewardship in harmony with the energies of Nature are welcome to attend. Registration is $50. for the weekend, and $25 or something close to that for a single day (Call Bob to check the one-day reg, and let the phone ring awhile, he may be out in the field.) Contact Bob Luzader at (352) 589-4606 for further info and directions. Attendees can stay overnight on the grounds (verify this with Bob); Bring your tent. Hotel rooms available (~$38./night) in the nearby town of Eustis. I do highly recommend this excellent conference to anyone seeking further usable, practical information on Biodynamic or Sustainable farming methods. Regards, Linda PS: This message posted also on the US Organic Agriculture Message Board at: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray. and on the BDNOW and Sanet Mailing Lists. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 12:54:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13856 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:54:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA03062; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:48:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02689 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:46:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33422-675>; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:47:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:47:26 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 Hi All; In response to ringworm in cattle: On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > Levi, > Ringworm infection often signals an underlying stress or nutritional > deficiency - we see this infection most commonly during the winter, when > cattle are being fed stored feeds (hay, silage, etc.). Often, these feeds > are low in Vitamin A - either it was present in low levels when the feed > was put up, or it has degraded over time. Fungal infection can only occur if the skin environment has been damaged. The skin has a protective coating of lactic acid and this, together with normal sebum production, has a fungicidal action. But chronic infections sometimes are stubborn, ringworm is treatable so persistance is needed. As mentioned above, the diet should be reviewed and adjusted. In homeopathic terms, the 'terrain' needs to be improved, restoring the abnormal body metabolism and then the skin function will come back to normal. Nutritionally, a natural supplement with kelp meal, Vit A, E, Selenium (if in a low area). Digestive enzymes are helpful. Topically used for ringworm: Tea Tree Oil, Echinacea (acts indirectly on the fungal mycelium), Hypericum ointment reduces itching. Remembering the ringworm is an expression of an internal 'disorder' or imbalance...if the animal was 'in health' the body would have the natural immunity to heal itself. Homeopathic homeopathic remedies to improve the animal's resistance: - Bacillinum is the primary ringworm remedy - Sepia when circular patches are more on the body than the head, - Tellurium has a beneficial effect on the skin - Kali arsenicum for dry scurfy scab-like lesions, will prevent the formation of leathery skin - Chrysarobinum is for scaly, crusty eruptions around ears and eyes. In the natural health field, experience has shown that chemical drugs only prolong the disease, as they have the tendency to suppress the symptoms and have internal side effects. With persistance, some wholistic reading and reviewing your cattle's overall nutritional program for the winter, the ringworm should be managable. Joan Macdonald DIHom R Hom Halifax, Nova Scotia Email: av204@chebucto.ns.ca > ======================================================================== > > BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, > dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food > that promotes human development. > > To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > > listproc@envirolink.org > > In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > > subscribe bdnow > > If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > > a message to listproc@envirolink.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 13:05:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14252 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:05:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05026; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:00:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04593 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:57:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id MAA27729 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:58:43 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:57:00 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF1F@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Ringworm in Cattle Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:56:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 i realize this is premature and uninformed and all that but here's a thought... anyone familiar with the yeast connection? ringworm is one of the manifestations of an overgrowth of yeast in humans...could our bovine friends have this trouble too?? and if so, are we getting it from their meat or are we all just getting it together? i find that an interesting thought -- i'm not expecting any answers. unless BD is the answer. :-) > ---------- > From: Intergalactic Garage > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 9:35 AM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle > > > > Ringworm has been a problem on our ranch with our showstring of registered > Santa Gertrudis cattle. I will be interested in seeing the traffic on > this > issue. > > We treat with MILD iodine/captan (garden plant antifungal)/novalsan spray > or paste (arioound eyese yse paste) EVERY OTHER day for a week or 2. > Seems > to do the job but ringworm spreads like wildfire so new areas crop up. > Keep your animal isolated during active cases or the whole herd will have > ringworm. > > My vet suggests eliminating the iodine because it is easy to remove hair > with even a mild iodine mixture. I still use the iodine in hopes I can > clear up sooner. Beware, use mild (say 1/2 %) and every other day. > > HayWire Ranch > Republic of Texas > > > > > > >Hello, > > > >I am a 16 year old farm boy from Alberta, Canada, and presently own a few > >breeding cows. My father found that my two year old cow just recently > formed > >ringworm patches around her eyes. I noticed the letters being exchanged > >regarding ringworm in humans and wondered if perhaps anyone had any > >information on a treatment for ringworm on cows. My father and I were > going > >to apply an antibacterial type cream to her soars but if there was an > >alternative I could try and experiment with I would try it first. > > > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > > >Sincerly, > >Levi Blumhagen > > > > > > > >========================================================================= > == > > > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, > >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, > food > >that promotes human development. > > > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > > > >listproc@envirolink.org > > > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > > > >subscribe bdnow > > > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > > > > of > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 14:41:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18197 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:41:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23291; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22691 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:32:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.150]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990126193408.GUJR678125.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:34:08 +1300 Message-ID: <36AE18CE.2DEA@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:34:39 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: JT: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 Jim Thank you very much for your response to my article. I enjoy your feedback, however I see little point in replying directly to it. I will however address aspects of your replies when dealing with other replies. We (you and I) are such an example of what Lievegeod outlines as the difficulty of the Rosicrucian and the Anthroposophist that it is a waste of my time and energies to enter 'the endless argument' in this way. It is wonderful you bring up your rebuttals and I look forward to many more in the future. May my postings long act as stimulation for the expression of your 'correct' view of the matter. I am sure all concerned can benefit from their consideration of your thoughts and my experience. Glen Atkinson. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 15:37:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21240 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:37:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA03757; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:31:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03270 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:29:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.150.57] (pm3mbr3-67-153.intrepid.net [206.102.67.153]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17206 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:30:37 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:30:51 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Ringworm in Cattle Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 > My father found that my two year old cow just recently formed > ringworm patches around her eyes. Levi, A helpful post from your country that I saved indicated that Crest toothpaste(Floristan) applied with a brush to affected areas will soon grow hair again. It helps to remove all the loose stuff you can with a brush first. We tried it a week ago, and sure enough, the hair is growing back already. Good luck! Your name would fit in well with the neighboring amish. Several Levi's around here. Dennis Lindell Grass Dairyfarmer Harmony,MN USA dairydel@means.net To join the Graze-R list, kindly go to: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/graze-r or http://www.onelist.com and search "grazing". For juno users w/o internet access, send a request to me. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 15:52:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21844 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:52:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06464; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:46:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06311 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:45:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.26]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:53:47 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:46:41 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Interns Wanted Message-ID: <05BC1D30C629E77785256704007F9A10.001349B185256705@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Sarah Milstein on 01/25/99 05:08:46 PM To: csa-l@prairienet.org cc: Subject: Interns Wanted I would appreciate it if somebody on the CSA list could post this message to SANET, and to any other lists where it would appropriate (and wouldn't constitute spamming). Thanks! --Sarah INTERNS WANTED - Roxbury Farm Roxbury Farm offers opportunities to be involved in all aspects of production on a well established, financially successful, mechanized farm, and to work with and learn from a farmer with twenty years of growing experience and a commitment to teaching. Roxbury Farm is a 190-acre biodynamic farm near Hudson, NY with 25 acres in vegetable production for a Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) membership of 675 shareholders located in Manhattan, Albany, and Columbia County, NY. Livestock provides for a portion of the farm's fertility needs and supplies meat to our members. The farm has been operated from its inception in 1990 by Jean-Paul Courtens, who is joined in 1999 by Sarah Shapiro. Interns interact with the local farm community through our participation in the Collaborative Regional Alliance for Farmer Training (CRAFT) program, a six month program in which interns visit twelve organic and biodynamic farms in the region. Roxbury Farm provides on-farm housing with a full kitchen and washing machine, all farm food crops, a food purchasing budget, a $300/month stipend, and Workers Compensation, for three interns during the growing season. People with a strong interest and work ethic shoulc contact Jean-Paul Courtens or Sarah Shapiro at: 518-851-2056, 518-851-3809, or write to us at roxbury@mhonline.net or 81 Roxbury Road, Hudson, NY 12534 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 16:34:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA24153 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:34:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA13407; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:28:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f98.hotmail.com [207.82.250.217]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA12897 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:25:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 12644 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 1999 21:25:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19990126212543.12643.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:25:42 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:25:42 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 Glen, Somehow, I've lost the initial study title, "Hydrogen the carrier of the ego", but anyhow of what benefit can this be to the study? I will agree that hydrogen is a carrier, but what form of hydrogen are we discussing? I believe that in the lectures that Steiner said water is the carrier of all nutruents, and water itself is a composite of hydrogen and oxygen. However not all water is the same. Water comming from a spring is much more dense with abundant minerals more so than that of comming from a water plant that is chemically treated to remove life forms. I do not think you are interested in drinking water from the ocean either. I feel that if we are going to study hydrogen then it is necessary to look at it in a complexed form. In rethinking RSs' statement that "water is the carrier of all nutrients", it appears that it would be more to the point to say, "water carries nutrients". Why? Because of the context of the "carrier". It can carry nutrients off soil by leaching. The modern chemist loves the previous statement due to the fact that it gives credence to the water solubility approach to plant feeding. The misconception is that water flushes the water solubile fert. into the plant root, when we know that the plant root searches through soil zones for the nutrient it needs and then trades a little acid to the clay for its' supper. Now going back to the "carrier". Just because water or hydrogen is a carrier does not give a shaping funtion to its' existence. It has the ability to be molded to a variety of forms. Many of the other elements become attatched to it through hydrogens movements. I feel that carrier too could also be termed as "vehicle". Vehicles are modes of transmission and sometimes carry other objects in their bodies. So if it is an apparatus for transmission, then it can take on other properties when condensing into matter. RS also said that in primeval days that air was much more dense then than it is currently and water much less denser. So with the age of the planet we are seeing a solidification of hydrogen into different forms of matter. Hydrogen taken in this sense more appeals to me again because we are looking then at its composite forms. This also too has more practical associations. What am I doing when I stirr up a batch of preps? I am stirring a batch of H2O in with preps of certain chemical properties. In the main, I also may be mixing oxygen from air into the batch, creating new things from bonding of prep, oxygen and H2O. I wonder has anyone ever weighed the entire prep including the vessel before stirring and then after? I wonder is it a loss or gain. Cheers,, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 17:15:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA25637 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:15:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA19274; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:09:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18840 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:05:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.80]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA2767 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:57:24 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990126133825.03bd7670@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:38:25 -0700 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Re: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego In-Reply-To: <19990126212543.12643.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 Dear Friends, At 01:25 PM 1/26/99 PST, you wrote: >So if it is an apparatus for transmission, then it can take on other >properties when condensing into matter. RS also said that in primeval >days that air was much more dense then than it is currently and water >much less denser. So with the age of the planet we are seeing a >solidification of hydrogen into different forms of matter. Hydrogen >taken in this sense more appeals to me again because we are looking then >at its composite forms. This also too has more practical associations. > >What am I doing when I stirr up a batch of preps? I am stirring a batch >of H2O in with preps of certain chemical properties. In the main, I >also may be mixing oxygen from air into the batch, creating new things >from bonding of prep, oxygen and H2O. Apparently a new form of hydrogen has been discovered and measured. This form of hydrogen is called the "hydrino" and it can be compounded with other elements. The hydrino is denser than hydrogen but less dense than helium. More information on the properties and uses of the hydrino can be found at: http://www.blacklightpower.com/index.html -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 Stupidity got us into this mess -- why can't it get us out? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 17:20:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA25760 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:20:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA20059; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:14:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19735 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:12:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay0191244.acay.com.au [203.19.124.4]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA11763 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:28:49 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:13:09 +1100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: thank you Lloyd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 Hi there Lloyd, We live in Aust. and I don't know what IAHP is. Thank you for your advice on anti-convulsants. We found a good homeopath and got Helen off the med. from the neurologist. Helen only has problems when she is near RoundUp. We have had feed back from other people advising that it may be the surfactant rather than the glyphsate. We will probably never know. This has led us down the track of BD which is a wonderful new way for us. We are in the process of trying to become chemical free on our farm. My daughter doesn't need any med now that she knows what the cause is. She is starting university this year, doing a degree in Environmental Science. She eats avery good diet and is very mindful of the need for good nutrition which has no doubt helped her. Thank you again. Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 19:10:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA00856 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:10:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA06690; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd101.hotmail.com [207.82.252.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA06466 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:02:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 11692 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jan 1999 00:03:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990127000313.11691.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.146.195.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:03:12 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.146.195.2] From: "lloyd kinder" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: thank you Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:03:12 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 Hi Margaret. I lived in Austin a few months in '87 and early '88. I was friends with some of the Quakers there, called Friends. My bro and I are just getting into biodynamics ourselves. Glad to hear of Helen's progress. It took me a long time to get off of junk food, maybe 9 years. I finally had to join overeaters anonymous. Aloha. Lloyd >Hi there Lloyd, >We live in Aust. and I don't know what IAHP is. Thank you for your advice on >anti-convulsants. We found a good homeopath and got Helen off the med. from >the neurologist. Helen only has problems when she is near RoundUp. We have >had feed back from other people advising that it may be the surfactant >rather than the glyphsate. We will probably never know. This has led us >down the track of BD which is a wonderful new way for us. We are in the >process of trying to become chemical free on our farm. My daughter doesn't >need any med now that she knows what the cause is. She is starting >university this year, doing a degree in Environmental Science. She eats >avery good diet and is very mindful of the need for good nutrition which >has no doubt helped her. >Thank you again. >Margaret > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Jan 26 23:23:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05569 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:23:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA05161; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:16:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA04923 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:14:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.129]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990127041446.IHOX682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:14:46 +1300 Message-ID: <36AE9310.6A29@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:16:16 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Study:Hydrogen and the Ego Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 > Somehow, I've lost the initial study title, "Hydrogen the carrier of the > ego", but anyhow of what benefit can this be to the study? The benefit of this to our study is that there is this very simple and neat association of the spiritual activiites to the elements of protein. As much as we may wish to discuss the ways in which the spiritual activities work into the various kingdoms of nature, ( which each havce their own querks) I feel sure we can see a basic relationship between the spirits relationship to Hydrogen, Nitrogen to the Astral body, the etheric to Oxygen and the physical to carbon, as stated by RS. Which brings us to his statement that the chemical constitution of any environment indicates the spiritual activity of that environment. Hence a whole new way of looking at chemistry and lifeforms. I will > agree that hydrogen is a carrier, but what form of hydrogen are we > discussing? I would suggest Hydrogen in its pure form (H). Start mixing it with other elements and you start carrying some of that activity as well. eg water H20. We have both the spirits activity mixed with an etheric activity which is very similiar in 'context' to the eastern definition of CHI, where the eternal spirit and life force are seen as one creative force behind lifeforms. Cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 00:46:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA06770 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:46:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA13211; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:40:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12879 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:37:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from XTRA.CO.NZ ([210.55.167.29]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with ESMTP id <19990127053841.LVKE678125.mta2-rme@XTRA.CO.NZ> for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:38:41 +1300 Message-ID: <36AEA5EB.EF26C299@XTRA.CO.NZ> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:36:43 +1300 From: Jim Thomson Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: JT: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego References: <36AE18CE.2DEA@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage wrote: > Jim > > Thank you very much for your response to my article. I enjoy your > feedback, however I see little point in replying directly to it. I will > however address aspects of your replies when dealing with other replies. > > We (you and I) are such an example of what Lievegeod outlines as the > difficulty of the Rosicrucian and the Anthroposophist that it is a waste > of my time and energies to enter 'the endless argument' in this way. > > It is wonderful you bring up your rebuttals and I look forward to many > more in the future. May my postings long act as stimulation for the > expression of your 'correct' view of the matter. I am sure all concerned > can benefit from their consideration of your thoughts and my experience. > > Glen Atkinson. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Correction: All concerned (with the on-line study) will benefit from the objective presentation of the facts according to Steiner's Spiritual Science as opposed to your subjective "imaginative experiences". JT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 04:55:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA08778 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:55:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA27899; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:49:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA27819 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:47:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay019124102.acay.com.au [203.19.124.102]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA07534 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:03:37 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:49:16 +1100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: Aust. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 Hi Lloyd, Sorry if I confused you, Aust. is short for Australia. That's why I don't know what IAHP is. Thanks again for the info you gave me I'm glad to hear of so many people doing things the natural way. Regards Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 08:07:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA10463 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:07:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA05770; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:01:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA05586 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:58:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA23775 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:02:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:02:28 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF / GEN1-27 (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:41:27 -0500 From: Richard Wolfson To: info@natural-law.ca Subject: GEN1-27 Here are some activist articles ......... SUPERMARKET LOYALTY CARDS TO TRACK GM FOOD THREAT Public to be guinea pigs in GM food experiment The Government is planning to use supermarket loyalty cards to help investigate the possible health impacts of eating genetically modified (GM) food. Official minutes show that discussions have already taken place with Sainsbury's, Tesco and Safeway who have "agreed in principle". The move will undermine confidence in the claim that there are no health concerns associated with GM food. The plans are outlined in the latest minutes (10 December) of the Government's official Advisory Committee on Novel Foods and Processes (ACNFP). Information on GM foods would be made available "in a form that can be analysed on a product by product basis at postcode level." Using health databases the information would be used to find out whether eating GM foods is linked to illness. The study would specifically look for increases in childhood allergies, cancer, birth defects and hospital admissions. There are around 30 million loyalty card-carrying customers in the UK. Customers are told that information gathered with the cards will not be passed on to third parties. Pete Riley, Food Campaigner at Friends of the Earth said: "If the Government is so concerned over the health impacts of genetically modified foods they shouldn't be introducing them. Supermarket customers will be outraged to discover that they are to be part of a massive public health experiment on GM foods. Despite the fact that their customers have made it clear that they don't want supermarkets to sell GM foods, it is clear that they are not only being ignored; but their loyalty is being abused as well. Supermarkets must decide whose interests they are protecting: their customers or the big biotech firms?" Despite public concern over GM foods the Government has been planning a pro-GM propaganda campaign with leading supermarkets. Last week Friends of the Earth revealed that the Government had discussed the possibility of running a pro-GM food video campaign at supermarket checkouts. Friends of the Earth has also attacked the Government for allowing Science Minister Lord Sainsbury to be involved with decisions over GM food. Lord Sainsbury has various links with the GM food industry. In October a NOP survey for Friends of the Earth revealed that 58 per cent of supermarket customers did not want their supermarkets to sell GM food. .......... "Hambling, Joyce" (by way of genetics ) Subject: GE - LEADING FOOD WRITERS DEMAND ANSWERS FROM BLAIR ON GENE FOOD For immediate release: 26th January 1999 LEADING FOOD WRITERS DEMAND ANSWERS FROM BLAIR ON GENE FOOD Over 120 of Britain and Ireland's leading food writers today challenged Tony Blair to put consumer's health and the environment before the interests of the agrochemical industry' and ban genetically engineered (GE) food. Speaking at the launch of the Greenpeace food writers campaign against genetic engineering, food writer Lynda Brown told a packed Savoy Hotel that it was time to challenge Tony Blair, "We shall be writing to Tony Blair to inform him of the strength of feeling amongst food writers against gene foods and asking him for once, to put the interests of the consumers ahead of the agrochemical companies. Up to now Tony Blair has only listened to the Monsantos of this world. He cannot ignore the huge public concern over gene foods any more - or the potential recipe for disaster they pose. We are at a turning point. Which way will this people's politician jump?". Also attending the launch was MP Alan Simpson who urged Greenpeace and the food writers to bring their campaign to Parliament, which he described as out of touch with public concern on the issue. He said, "I have heard more relevant discussion here today than I've ever heard in Parliament on the issue of genetic engineering". The Greenpeace campaign has gained the support of over 120 leading food writers who have pledged to oppose the use of GE food in their recipes, books and columns and to encourage restaurants to avoid the use of GE products. The campaign will expand to include chefs, growers, gardeners, consumers, anyone with an interest in food and the environment. Greenpeace Campaign Director John Sauven said of today's challenge "We shall wait to hear from Tony Blair with interest. He can't sit on the fence about this one any longer, food affects everyone and he has to take sides; does he care about consumers and the environment or about the agrochemical industry." The launch was held at the Savoy Hotel in London this morning (26th January). ends For further information please contact the Greenpeace Press Office on 0171-865 8255/6/7/8 ....... posted by Hugh Warwick (by way of genetics ) GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOODS: UNNECESSARY, UNWANTED, UNSAFE Today, Wednesday 27th January at 4pm, Environment Minister Michael Meacher will see the launch of an influential report on the use of genetic engineering in British agriculture at the House of Commons. The report is the result of the first 'Citizens' Jury' on the subject of food. Twelve randomly selected members of the British public were brought together. And over ten weekly meetings, they interrogated expert witnesses from academia, government and the food industry on the way our food is grown, processed, regulated and presented to consumers. In their final verdict, the citizens' jury has concluded the following: o Agriculture should be transformed away from intensive methods towards low or zero use of artificial chemicals such as pesticides and chemical fertilisers o Genetically modified foods are unnecessary and may have irreversible consequences o Labelling of all foods as "GM" or "GM-free" should begin, together with a public education campaign. o There should be far less price difference between organic and non-organic produce than at present o Consumer groups should be represented on food regulatory authorities o Control over the way our food is distributed and sold is currently in the hands of too few supermarket companies. Members of the jury will be present to defend their conclusions, as will the project's stakeholders, including representatives from Sainsbury's, the National Farmer's Union and the Consumers' Association. Graham Harvey, author of the influential book 'Killing of the Countryside', and agricultural story editor to the 'Archers', will present his conclusions based on 20 years work as an agricultural journalist. Copies of the citizens' report will be available at the press conference. For further information and copies of the report, please call: 0171 837 9229 Co-ordinator of the project, Dr Tom Wakeford, is a member of Science Minister Lord Sainsbury's Biosciences Advisory Group and lectures at the University of East London. _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months See website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 08:30:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA10759 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:30:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA07261; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:24:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA07079 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:22:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.175] (pm3mbr2-66-175.intrepid.net [206.102.66.175]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA31887 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:22:56 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:23:42 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ringworm treatment Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 At a recent health program for cattle, a similar question about ringworm came up. The vet giving the presentation recommended a rather simple, old treatment as follows. Brush off the scaly top of the ringworm and then brush on a coat of used motor oil. The reason this works is that ringworm is a fungus and the small amount of sulfur residue in the oil is adequate to treat against the ringworm fungus. It's a simple and low cost way to administer the sulfur. CS Goodhue, MN From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 09:05:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA11239 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:05:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11003; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:59:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f110.hotmail.com [207.82.250.229]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA10663 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:56:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 18697 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jan 1999 13:57:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19990127135719.18696.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:57:18 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: JT: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:57:18 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 Dear Jim, You write: I will agree that the objective is important to be able to start visualizing the Ag. lectures. This info is difficult to transend. The most difficult part of it being the context of the language. Example: I am 43 years old and live in the Southeastern U.S. Until comming in contact with the works of RS, I had practically never heard the use of the word "Etheric", with the exception of jokes and puns. As I continue exploration of the science that developed in Europe prior to WWI & WWII I am finding that it may be a central point in those conversations. You may be so far advanced in Steiners' viewpoints that the concepts he presents are second nature to you. However I am not. I am a neophyte, a child in this form of thinking. The use of the subjective encourages me to explore some of the thoughts I am having about these things. When I do this it seems that people on the list encourage me. This makes my inner spirit glow and I hope I can get a few others to glimmer as well. While I do want to make Steiners concepts work for me in practical application, I do not want to become so terse and mechanical that boredum and humdrum enter in and thinking becomes stagnent and putrid. When this happens then whats the use. No motivation, no thinking, ie. no living substance. On this list we are encouraged to voice our experiances, just as children are encouraged to speak their thoughts to their parents while learning and growing. When this occurs the parent may draw out of the child attributes that will one day encourage the child in an attitude that will allow he/she to discover remedies to cure the worlds ills. Think about the subjective from a childs viewpoint. I do not know everything. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 09:19:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA11753 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA13078; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:13:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12854 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:12:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-87.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.87]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA32469 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:13:15 +1100 Message-ID: <016f01be49ff$25c04bc0$49431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Fw: grasshoppers. Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:11:46 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_016A_01BE4A5B.2CD52C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_016A_01BE4A5B.2CD52C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Cheryl Kemp To: BDNow list Date: Thursday, 28 January 1999 12:54 am Subject: grasshoppers. I received this question from a lady on my conventional farmers list and = was wondering if anyone has some tried and true suggestions or what = worked for you, Weather this year has been very wet and cloudy. Many thanks, Cheryl Kemp. Do you have any good ideas for controlling grasshoppers? Hundreds = devastated our 20 or so sweetcorn plants, including the cobs then they = turned on the beans, carrots and other plants. I have broccoli plants = in pots in the nursery that should have been in the garden weeks back = but I cant see any point in it. =20 Any advice will be very much appreciated as we just avoid chemicals = completely but our veges suffer. We are trying to work on the theory = that we have to share - but this year the grasshoppers left us almost no = corn. =20 Regards =20 Lynette > > ------=_NextPart_000_016A_01BE4A5B.2CD52C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Cheryl Kemp <bio@midcoast.com.au
>
To:= =20 BDNow list <bdnow@envirolink>
Date: Thursday, 28 = January=20 1999 12:54 am
Subject: grasshoppers.

I received this question from a lady = on my=20 conventional farmers list and was wondering if anyone has some tried and = true=20 suggestions or what worked for you,  Weather this year has been = very wet=20 and cloudy.
Many = thanks,
Cheryl Kemp.
Do you have any good = ideas for=20 controlling grasshoppers?   Hundreds devastated our 20 or so = sweetcorn=20 plants, including the cobs then they turned on the beans, carrots and = other=20 plants.  I have broccoli plants in pots in the nursery that should = have=20 been in the garden weeks back but I cant see any point in = it.
 
Any advice will be very = much=20 appreciated as we just avoid chemicals completely but our veges=20 suffer.   We are trying to work on the theory that we have to = share -=20 but this year the grasshoppers left us almost no corn.
 
Regards
 
Lynette
>
>
------=_NextPart_000_016A_01BE4A5B.2CD52C80-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 09:57:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA12429 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:57:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA18923; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:52:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from cartman.webbernet.net (root@cartman.webbernet.net [208.218.89.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18283 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:48:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from dhol.com (ip14-ascend3.dyn.webbernet.net [159.138.24.14]) by cartman.webbernet.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09202 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:49:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36AF2792.D13FD455@dhol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:49:54 -0500 From: "Dr. Kim Shunkwiler" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "BDNOW!" Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 Unsubscribe bdnow From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 11:16:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14266 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:16:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA04465; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:09:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03736 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:07:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.33]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990127160839.OIUX678125.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:08:39 +1300 Message-ID: <36AF3A25.6DD1@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:09:09 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: JT: Hydrogen the carrier of the ego Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 JT wrote > Correction: > > All concerned (with the on-line study) will benefit from the objective > presentation of the facts according to Steiner's Spiritual Science as > opposed to your subjective "imaginative experiences". > > JT For anyone not interested in my living experiences and imaginative cognition based upon RS work, they have a delete button. At some point Jim, I trust you will come to see your "objective presentation of the facts according to Steiner's Spiritual Science" is but one more subjective impression. Your assertions of their factualness is all very well however as I see it, they are often wide of 'the truth'. Take for example this statement > The ego is carried by warmth but works through carbon, the polarity to carbon being > nitrogen (The body of the Elohim ) For Humans, the ego works three ways into the > body, none of them to do with the liver. Please make this last statement to an Anthropop doctor and see what their answer is to you. Even my direct quotation > A week earlier on page 30 of "Spiritual Relationships in the Human > Organism." We find "Thus our ego organism also takes part through the > liver - which in essence has hydrogen as its physical representative - > in the whole construction of the human organism" from RS seems unable to impact upon your subjective mind set I am 100% wrong and you 100% right. And so be it. There are many more such examples one could draw attention too through out all your postings. The value of doing so however, is not apparant to me at present. So enjoy your journey. Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 11:42:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14803 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:42:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA09331; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:36:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.152]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08932 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:34:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.4.55]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:35:45 +0000 Message-ID: <36AF3FAA.1DAA@cwcom.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:32:42 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF / GEN1-27 (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 Michael - BBC radio interviews with Tesco and Sainsbury officials seem to indicate that they will not permit the use of loyalty cards in the way apparently reported by the Ministry. The Tesco man was very firm that the undertaking his company made when introducing their Clubcard - that details would never be passed on to another organisation - still holds. As the user of a Sainsbury Reward card, together with the Tesco card (for DIY materials), I'm relieved; if it turns out that these reassurances are false, I'll complain vigorously and so, I hope, will many others ! Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 18:57:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24486 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:57:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA19658; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:50:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18895 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:45:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <35566-26426>; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:46:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:46:02 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: ringworm treatment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 Hi All; I had to reply to this post.... > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > At a recent health program for cattle, a similar question about ringworm > came up. The vet giving the presentation recommended a rather simple, old > treatment as follows. Brush off the scaly top of the ringworm and then > brush on a coat of used motor oil. The reason this works is that ringworm > is a fungus and the small amount of sulfur residue in the oil is adequate to > treat against the ringworm fungus. It's a simple and low cost way to > administer the sulfur. ------------------ It makes you ask, what contaminants are in used motor oil and why nowdays must it be properly recycled and not just tossed away..I think I would rather use clean oil.... Motor oil is a petroleum product and can have adverse suppressive long term effects. (Actually I just wrote a paper on Petroleum-crude and as a homeopathic remedy.) As the skin breathes and is porous, the petroleum reaches through to vital internal levels. Workers in the petroleum industry have some of these affects: - diseases of the skin and subcutaneous tissue ( like cures like..but prolonged exposure also creates) The skin affections may be better while the oil is applied...Vasoline(a petroleum product) used to be mixed with olive oil and applied to burns. - depressed nutrition, anemia, impaired digestive function - nerve trouble - respiratory affections So when you think of it, nothing in the application of motor oil addresses the underlying cause of the susceptibility to ringworm and its use will create more imbalances in the immune system for the future. I guess it is just like our gardens, you can dress the top with good looking compost....but it is what's happening underneath that coat,that matters. --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia Email: av204@chebucto.ns.ca From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 22:40:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA27546 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:40:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17783; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:33:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17406 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:31:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.137] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00446 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:32:56 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:56:22 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: BD Newsletters & Journals, updated list Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 BD-Now Readers: Here's an updated list (1-25-99) of Biodynamic Newsletters and Journals that includes Star and Furrow (England), Harvests (New Zealand), and The News Leaf (Austrialia) in addition to U.S. publications (Biodynamics, Applied Biodynamics, Voice of Demeter). Thanks to input from Cheryl Kemp, Tony Nelson-Smith, and Jim Thompson for address updates and publication notes. Steve Diver steved@attra.org =========================================== Biodynamics, started by Dr. Ehrenfried Pfeiffer in 1941, is the leading journal on biodynamics published in the United States. Contents includes scientific articles as well as practical reports on: composts, soils, biodynamic preparations, equipment, research trials, laboratory methods, biodynamic theory, and farm profiles. Subscriptions are $35 per year for six issues, available through the Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association. Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association, Inc Building 1002B, Thoreau Center, The Presidio P.O. Box 29135 San Francisco, CA 94129-0135 415-561-7797 415-561-7796 Fax biodynamic@aol.com http://www.biodynamics.com Applied Biodynamics is the newsletter of the Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Bio-Dynamics, which makes and distributes biodynamic preparations. The journal features articles on use of the preparations, compost making procedures, and other biodynamic methods from the practical perspective. Subscriptions are $30 per year for three issues, available through JPI. Josephine Porter Institute for Applied Biodynamics Rt. 1 Box 620 Woolwine, VA 24185 540-930-2463 http://igg.com/bdnow/jpi/ The Voice of Demeter is the newsletter of the Demeter Association, which is the official certification organization for biodynamically grown foods. It is published twice yearly as an insert to Biodynamics; separate copies are available by request from Demeter Association. Demeter Association, Inc. Britt Rd. Aurora, NY 13026 315-364-5617 315-364-5224 Fax Contact: Anne Mendenhall demeter@baldcom.net Star and Furrow is the journal published by the Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Association (BDAA) in England. Established in 1953, the Star and Furrow follows earlier publications of the BDAA dating back to the 1930s. Issued twice ('Summer' and 'Winter') per year, overseas (airmail) subscriptions are stlg5 British pounds. Contact: Bio-Dynamic Agricultural Association Rudolf Steiner House 35 Park Road London NW1 6XT England Harvests is the current publication of the New Zealand Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association (NZ-BDFGA), published four times per year. The NZ-BDFGA has published a newsletter or journal since 1947. Subscriptions are NZ$55 per year. Contact: NZ Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association P.O. Box 39045 Wellington mail Centre New Zealand Tel: 04 589 5366 Fax: 04 589 5365 biodynamics@clear.net.nz The News Leaf is the quarterly journal of the Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association Of Australia Inc. (BDFGAA), in print since 1989. Subscriptions are $US25. Contact: BDFGAA P.O.Box 54 Bellingen 2454 NSW Australia Phone:/ Fax +2 66558551 or +2 66575306 poss@midcoast.com.au ============================================== From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Jan 27 22:40:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA27557 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:40:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17698; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:33:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17394 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:31:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.137] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00427 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:32:51 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:55:56 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: RAFI News: More Seed Sterilization Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 Rural Advancement Foundation International - RAFI Press Release - 27 January 1999 http://www.rafi.org ------------------------------------------ Genetic Seed Sterilization is "Holy Grail" for Ag Biotechnology Firms ------------------------------------------ New Patents for "Suicide Seeds" Threaten Farmers and Food Security Warns RAFI The Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI), a Canadian-based rural advocacy organization, announced today that it has uncovered over three dozen new patents describing a wide range of techniques that can be used for the genetic sterilization of plants and seeds. "The patents reveal that engineered seed sterility is not an isolated research agenda - it's the Holy Grail of the ag biotech industry," says Pat Mooney of RAFI. The disclosure follows on the heels of a controversial patent unveiled last year, christened the "Terminator" by RAFI, that continues to generate worldwide protest and debate because it renders farm-saved seed sterile - forcing farmers to return to the commercial seed market every year. The Terminator patent is jointly owned by the US Department of Agriculture and a Monsanto subsidiary, Delta & Pine Land Co. "The notorious Terminator patent is just the tip of the iceberg," explains RAFI's Mooney, "Every major seed and agrochemical enterprise is developing its own version of suicide seeds," he adds. "We've uncovered dozens of patents that disclose new and more insidious techniques for genetic sterilization of plants and seeds - and even animals," says Edward Hammond of RAFI. "Novartis, AstraZeneca, and Monsanto are among the Gene Giants who have sterile seeds in the pipeline, while others like Pioneer Hi-Bred, Rhone Poulenc, and DuPont have technologies that could easily be turned into Terminators." The primary goal of several of the the newly patented techniques is to sterilize seed so that farmers cannot save and re-plant seed. A number of the patents use benign-sounding technical terms such as "controlled gene expression" linked to "inducible promoters" to describe their sterilization techniques. Other patents describe "killer genes" that destroy pollen, or "GRIM proteins" that do the same to invertebrates or even mammalian cells. A patent owned by Astra/Zeneca candidly admits that their sterilization processes "are not desirable per se." Sterile Seeds: Why Worry? "These technologies are extremely dangerous," explains RAFI's Mooney, "because over 1.4 billion farmers - primarily poor farmers in Africa, Asia and Latin America - depend on farm-saved seed as their primary seed source. If they can't save seed, they can't continue to adapt crops to their unique farming environments, and that spells disaster for global food security." "Genetic seed sterility is not about improving the productivity or quality of crops, it's a quest to increase seed industry profits," adds Mooney, "First and foremost, these technologies are intended to force farmers to buy seed every season and to take still more crop production control away from farmers." A Platform for Inducing Chemical Sales: The new generation of patents goes beyond the genetic neutering of crops. The patents reveal that companies are developing suicide seeds whose genetic traits can be turned on and off by an external chemical "inducer" -- mixed with the company's patented agrochemicals. In the not-so-distant future, we may see farmers planting seeds that will develop into productive (but sterile) crops only if sprayed with a carefully prescribed regimen that includes the company's proprietary pesticide, fertilizer or herbicide. The latest version of Monsanto's suicide seeds won't even germinate unless exposed to a special chemical, while AstraZeneca's technologies outline how to engineer crops to become stunted or otherwise impaired if not regularly exposed to the company's chemicals. RAFI calls it "Traitor Technology." Sound far-fetched? Not according to Novartis (a Swiss life industry giant), whose patent (US 5,789,214) describes a process for chemically regulating a number of developmental processes in plants -- such as germination, sprouting, flowering, fruit ripening, etc. The patent specifically mentions that the chemical regulator can be applied to plants in combination with a fertilizer or herbicide. "If the companies can genetically program suicide seeds to perform only with the application of proprietary pesticide or fertilizer, it means they will increase sales of their patented agrochemicals and other proprietary inputs," explains Edward Hammond of RAFI. "Chemically-dependent suicide seeds are a dazzling technological achievement and a brilliant marketing strategy, but it's grim news for farmers and the environment," concludes Hammond. >From Biosafety to BioSerfdom: "We'll be hearing plenty of industry arguments in favor of engineered seed sterility and Traitor Technologies, but the ultimate goal," says Pat Mooney of RAFI, "is not breeding benefits or biosafety, but bioserfdom." "If Traitor technologies are developed for commercial sale," predicts RAFI's Mooney, "farmers will be forced to surrender control of their seed supply and the Gene Giants will ultimately dictate what the farmer grows, how to grow it, and where to sell it. Seed sterility is not about insuring quality or productivity, it's a power grab pure and simple," concludes Mooney. "The seed and agrochemical industry will argue that engineered seed sterility is highly beneficial to the environment because it will eliminate the problem of horizontal gene transfer - it will prevent cross-pollination and thus the escape of engineered genes from transgenic plants to nearby weeds or wild relatives," explains Hope Shand of RAFI. There is concern that transgenic plants could pass genes on to wild plant relatives - thus creating "superweeds" that could wreak havoc on the environment. Suicide seeds could put to rest the specter of genetic pollution, and it conveniently offers a "green" rationale for acceptance of genetic seed sterility. The industry will also argue that suicide seeds prevent pre-harvest crops from sprouting prematurely, and that it will decrease the cost of producing hybrid seeds. Finally, industry will argue that they can't continue to develop new, more productive varieties for agriculture unless they get a fair return on their investment. No matter what rationale is used by the Gene Giants to engineer social acceptance of seed sterility, the technology is unacceptable to growing numbers of civil society organizations around the world who are calling for Terminator Technologies to be banned by governments. According to RAFI, the easiest way to ban Terminator is for national patent offices to reject Traitor claims on the legal grounds of ordre public (against public morality). The specter of genetic seed sterilization is so serious that Terminator technologies will be debated at several United Nations bodies, including UN Food and Agriculture Organization in April, the Convention on Biological Diversity in May, the UN Commission on Science, Technology, and Development in May. A RAFI report to be released later this week, "Traitor Technology" provides an in-depth analysis of the seed sterility patents. For this study and a detailed chart of patent claims, visit RAFI's homepage at: http://www.rafi.org ------- CONTACTS: Pat Mooney, Executive Director RAFI Tel: +1 204-453-5259 E-mail: rafi@rafi.org Edward Hammond, Program Officer RAFI Tel: +1 206-323-7378 E-mail: hammond@rafi.org Hope Shand, Research Director RAFI Tel: +1 717-337-6482 E-mail: hope@rafi.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Jan 28 09:23:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA04267 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:23:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00218; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:17:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29964 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:16:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <32894-26411>; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:16:57 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:16:56 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: RAFI News: More Seed Sterilization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 Hi All; Did anyone happen to hear Pat Mooney (from RAFI) talking to Art Bell the other night...He was very good and Art said, that he himself had no idea this way going on...but at the end he commented that by controlling the world's food you control the people of the world. I had to chuckle when he mentioned that he has found that Canadian's speak very quietly, but when they do you had better listen... Look at Art's Web Site..artbell.com I really think Hugh Lovel should be on his radio program, to talk about biodynamics & subtle energies...the program goes internationally... and Brewster Kneen, a Canadian who wrote 'Farmegeddon: Food & the Culture of Biotechnology'- about the corporate take over of the food industry.. Someone called in and mentioned that the USDA will get a % of the sales of terminator seeds...and someone else said that they thought what was going on in Washington was just a smokescreen for what is really happening outside DC. If you have any suggestions for his program send him an email....Art is open to anyone as a guest, who he finds has something people would like to, or should hear..... ---Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada email:chebucto.ns.ca From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Jan 28 11:31:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07017 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:31:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA21387; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:24:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20935 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:22:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.3.60]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:23:21 +0000 Message-ID: <36B08F48.666E@cwcom.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:24:40 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: BD publications Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 50 Allan - a minor error in your posted listing of these publications: the overseas subscription to Star and Furrow including airmail is stg6.00 - stg5.00 only gets you surface-mail delivery. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Jan 28 13:26:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA09697 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:26:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11436; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:20:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11115 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:18:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.23]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990128182026.XSQG678125.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:20:26 +1300 Message-ID: <36B0AA88.1487@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:20:56 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Study:L3:1 Hydrogen the carrier of the spirit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 In the light of my article/post and discussions putting forward the relationships of the elements of protein to the spiritual activiites I wish to add....... I still wish to address Malcolms post of the 1.21.1999 however in the meantime a few other thoughts have arisen. When I read the third lecture now through the eyes of hydrogen as the spirits fundamental carrier, I see the passages saying carbon and sulphur are the egos carriers in the same light as if we say the physical body is the carrier into the physical of the spirit. Which is in fact the truth however we must not make the mistake of believing that the physical body is the spirit. As Krsna tells us in the Bagavada Gita, the spirit is pure and eternal and not Earth bound, and while it resides in the physical it should not be confused with the physical. The physical body is not only the carrier of the spirit it also houses the etheric and astral activities in the physical as well. And so it is with Carbon. Our physical bodies are carbon based lifeforms (albeit with a hydrogen/spirit catalyst) and it is this Carbon base which provides the platform for, or carries, all the other physical and spiritual activities taking place in lifeforms. Just as it it incorrect to completely identify the spirit and physical body as one, so I believe it is incorrect to completely identify the spirts activity with carbon. Read these passages as if Carbon is a car filled with several passangers rather than just one, and see if this could be a possibility and that Carbon is indeed a carrier of the spirit, and everything else too. Early on in the creative process Carbon and Hydrogen must combine. Just as in astronomy the two vortexes of the vertical plane must combine and begin working off each other before the horizontal planes of the galaxies and solar systems can become manifest. These two elemets C & H form a primary polarity , in the same manner we see Ca & Si. ( Hey, note how if we combine these two primary polarities we have lime and silicic acid). In the physical we see Carbon catalysed by hydrogen, and as JT tells us, in the Sun we see Hydrogen catalysed by Carbon. This is the vertical polarity of life. Wherever you look in 'living' processes I am sure you will see these two elements in tandem. Regarding Sulphur >From my readings most notably the first three lectures of 'Curative Education' I am left with the image of Sulphur working in life in the same way oil works in a motor. The elements of protein H,N,O,C are the block, cyclinders, piston and crankshaft of life however without sulphur/oil they sieze up and create autism in humans, while in the soil no sulphur, sees the plant starve. Anyway, just thoughts for the interested. Glen A From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Jan 28 15:38:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12666 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:38:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05686; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:31:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05345 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:29:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 105y5F-00070G-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:30:38 +0000 Message-ID: <36B0C850.9848A7D8@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:28:00 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BDNow Subject: OFF:Small farms in Nepal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 52 I am currently reading up on some research that has been going on in Nepal which is highlighting some interesting things. Hill farming in Eastern Nepal is a total integration between crops, animals and trees. It has been this way for centuries but as the natural forest cover is decreasing more trees are being grown on-farm. Leaves are the main feed for livestock. Over the last 20 years researchers have been trying to find ways to help these farmers get more out of their systems and have introduced new techniques or inputs. Many have not been taken up even though they appear to offer benefits. Recently there has been an interest by researchers in 'indigenous knowledge' and, especially in agroforestry, a recognition that science may not know as much as the farmer. Its changing a bit and there are intricate computerised 'knowledge systems' being developed whereby farmers are interviewed and the information is 'formalised' and put into computer. Eventually 'knowledge bases' are built up on a particular area, e.g. green manure, erosion, etc. Research institutions are now using these knowledge bases to see how they can better adapt their research programmes to produce the sort of information that farmers want. The problem has been one of communication - even where researchers and farmers speak the same language there have been a lot of different dialects and local farming terms, together with differing amounts of formal education (of farmers, extensionists and researchers) which have contributed to misunderstandings. What the researchers recognise is that often they are discovering the same as the farmer but they measure and deduce whereas the farmer has learnt by years of experience. It just struck me as interesting that these small farms are pretty much entities in their own right; that they are well balanced in terms of plants, animals, humans; and that the farmer learns through observation to pretty good effect .......... Sound familiar? Alison From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Jan 28 22:53:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19688 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:53:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA00465; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:45:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mnsinc.com (relay1.mnsinc.com [206.55.3.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00036 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:42:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from lizard (a0134.chantilly.mns.net [206.239.104.166]) by relay1.mnsinc.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA20823 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:43:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:43:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990128223837.1bdf8d98@mail.mnsinc.com> X-Sender: jspencer@mail.mnsinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: JSpencer Subject: OFF: Glyphosphate Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 53 Margaret who posted about glyphosphate & epilepsy: Please contact me by private email. I'd like to get further information about your experience with glyphosphate, as relates to multiple cgemical sensitivity. Thanks. --John Spencer, Herndon VA From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Jan 29 08:46:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA26631 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:46:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA06855; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:38:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f94.hotmail.com [207.82.250.200]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA06730 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:38:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 29582 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 1999 13:38:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19990129133846.29581.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:38:46 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Study:L3:1 Hydrogen the carrier of the spirit Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:38:46 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 54 Dear Glen, I like this! In this sense, we look to see things not as they are mixed but in how they maintain unique individual character while continuing to exist within the whole. It is possible also to note character of the whole by understanding the natural function and quantites of each passenger(element) necessary to promote health. From my readings most notably the first three lectures of 'Curative Education' I am left with the image of Sulphur working in life in the same way oil works in a motor. The elements of protein H,N,O,C are the block, cyclinders, piston and crankshaft of life however without sulphur/oil they sieze up and create autism in humans, while in the soil no sulphur, sees the plant starve.> If the plants starve, what happens latter on in the chain? Each preparation has in some respect, a different assimilation of sulphur as reguards each plants process. Mabey the reasons for Steiners indications of harvesting flowers. Each time used incorporates different working of sulphur into the solid and then broken down and re-assimilated through composting are then able to attain new forms of life, but in association with carbon. Thank-You. Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Jan 29 12:57:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03885 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:57:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA14801; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:50:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14457 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:48:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.65]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAD3740 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:40:11 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990129094100.03acd470@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:41:00 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: OFF: Fw: Experts on Genetic Engineering on National Public Radio! In-Reply-To: <19990129133846.29581.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 55 Dear Friends, The following might be of interest to some on this forum: -----Original Message----- From: blaine To: Recipient list suppressed Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 10:25 PM Subject: Fwd: Experts on Genetic Engineering on National Public Radio! Please Forward to Your Friends: February 5th National Public Radio Hosts--Experts Discuss Hazards of Genetic Engineering Dear friends, On February 5th, National Public Radio will broadcast a replay of a special one hour interview of the City Club Forum, which will feature Dr. John Fagan, top cancer researcher and pioneer in the hazards of genetic engineering, and Dr. Steven Drucker, founder of the Alliance for Bio-Integrity. They will speak on the impacts of genetic engineering on our food supply at the City Club (216-621-0082.) in Cleveland on Thursday, January 28 at 12 noon. ================================= A list of radio stations playing this NPR show, which will be aired at different times on February 5th, will be posted on Steve Drucker's web site (Alliance for Bio-integrity): http://www.bio-integrity.org If one's local NPR station is not located there, you may call 515-472-5554 or 202-547-9359 to get the information. ================================== Of course, if this NPR show is not available, one may call one's local NPR radio station and request that this show played in your area. The City Club Forum is a one hour show, broadcast at different times on NPR stations across the nation. There are 188 stations on the carriage list, and additional repeater/ translator stations totaling 409. Dr. Fagan, Ph. D., is the first person to have returned a research grant to the National Institutes of Health, due to concerns that his work could lead to dangerous applications. He has lectured all over the world on the hazards of genetically manipulated organisms, both in terms of our health, and the environment. He has published the book, "Genetic Engineering, the Hazards; Vedic Engineering, the Solutions" which is available through MUM Press (800-831-6523). Steven M. Drucker, JD, has filed a lawsuit with the FDA on behalf of the Alliance for Bio- Integrity, made up of scientists, health professionals, religious leaders, consumers, and public interest groups, to obtain mandatory safety testing and labeling of all genetically manipulated foods. Genetic manipulation is a relatively new practice of splicing genes from dissimilar species and phyla into plants, to improve handling characteristics or pesticide resistance. This process is not the same as hybridization by which one uses genes from the same species and uses natural reproductive mechanisms, but rather a practice that use potentially hazardous laboratory splicing techniques to put the DNA of bacteria, viruses, or even animals or fish, into foods. These new organisms are, in turn, sold in supermarkets with no labeling to indicate that they are genetically modified.. There has been minimal, and often questionable testing of the effects of these unnatural foods on the human digestion, and insufficient research into the possible consequences of cross-pollination with traditional crops, so we are taking great risks with limited knowledge. This is a great concern of everyone interested in the integrity of the food supply and also of the long-range impact upon the environment of planting and then selling these organisms as food. This City Club forum is a great opportunity to get updated information from two great experts on the whole issue, and to consider what action we may take to require labeling of such organisms if they are sold in our stores or to put a ban on sale of such organisms until sufficient research is successfully completed. Enjoy the show. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Jan 29 14:19:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06016 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:19:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA29361; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:08:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28644 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:05:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.90] (client-151-196-125-90.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.90]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08492 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:06:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901291906.OAA08492@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:01:36 -0500 Subject: Off: Asilomar Farmers on Y2K From: "Steven McFadden" To: BD now Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 56 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Alt_MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part" --Alt_MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable This has been on other lists, but I thought some in the BDNow Hoop might like to have it in stand alone form. I have attached in in MS word '98 -- so some may be able to recover it in that format. It should come out as tw= o pages -- easy for back to back copying should you feel that would be helpfu= l for your community. Peace, Steven From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Sustainable Agriculture Network sanet-mg-digest Wednesday, January 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 781 Subject: Y2K Statement Emerges from Asilomar EcoFarm Conference Y2K and the Food Supply A Message from Concerned American Farmers: "Prepare" Our food system - from seed to table - is fragile. Potential disruptions of our food supply caused by the year 2000 computer bug (Y2K) may highlight this vulnerability. =85 Food travels an average 1300 miles from farm-gate to dinner plate. =85 Urban areas have only 3 days supply of food in the supermarkets. =85 Most food transactions depend on thousands of computer chips. =85 Farmers rely on inputs of seeds, fertilizers, machinery, electricity, fue= l and water to produce and harvest our crops and livestock. =85 Food processors rely on automated systems to turn our harvests into consumer-ready products. =85 Distributors, wholesalers and retailers depend on computerized systems to coordinate, transport, refrigerate, store and sell food products to consumers. According to the USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service, "Any interruption along this farm-to-fork chain can result in a direct loss to those who supply food. That can mean more expensive, less available, food supplies." We believe that our response to Y2K should be neither panic nor procrastination, but rather, preparation. No one knows for sure if January 1, 2000 will be a 'bump in the road' or a widespread breakdown. As American farmers, we believe the responsible action is to prepare. It is important to make changes that are broadly beneficial to the community, farm, and food system, regardless of the uncertain consequences of Y2K. Preparation for Y2K provides us an opportunity to shore up the vulnerabilit= y of our food system and make changes that will better enable farmers to keep the world fed - one community at a time - and to make our communities more self-reliant . As farmers, we believe that 1999 is not a time to 'run for the hills' but rather a time to head for our town halls to develop community-based strategies on how to keep our neighbors fed - both urban and rural - in event of disruption in food supplies. We present the following ideas for consideration to prepare our farms and our communities for the year 2000: =85 Identify the resources and skills within yourself, your family and your community to grow, process and prepare food. A variety of skills will be needed to make the food system resilient to disruption. =85 Ask those with organizing skills to initiate community meetings to establish local contingency plans for food, security, energy and water supplies. =85 Identify neighbors who may need extra assistance during a food crisis - the elderly, those with special diet requirements, and the poor. Include them in planning. =85 Establish individual and community gardens, provide classes in gardening and food preservation. =85 Develop a "Y2K Cookbook for Eating Locally" with help of chefs, older folks, and local food editors. =85 Buy directly from local producers. Opportunities include joining a CSA (community supported farm), keeping local farmers' markets open year round, and supporting roadside stands. =85 Collaborate with public institutions (hospitals, schools, prisons) and private institutions (restaurants and grocery stores) to identify local foo= d sources and encourage them to begin now to buy locally produced and processed foods. =85 Develop alternate water supplies, collections, storage and distribution systems. =85 Buy a little extra seed and plant an open-pollinated seed garden. If you plant open-pollinated seed this year you can then save the seed from your 1999 crops and plant it in the spring of 2000. Hybrid seeds will fail or mutate in their 2nd season. =85 Plant more storage crops and winter gardens. =85 Fix or replace computers and equipment not "Y2K compliant." =85 Contact suppliers and customers about their preparations. =85 Make alternate plans if necessary. On December 17, 1998 Janet Abrams, Executive Director of the President's Council on Year 2000 Conversion, said that the U.S. government anticipates = " a large series of mild to moderate disruptions across the country...These are situations that in usual times you might be able to call on the state o= r the federal government to help solve, but we are stressing to our local officials that they're going to have to take care of these problems on thei= r own." This means it is up to all of us. We invite you to join with others in your community to build a more secure and resilient food system. A good first step is starting the conversation with your family and your neighbors. We wish you well. Official Statement Endorsed by attendees of the 19th Annual Ecological Farming Conference, Asilomar, California - January 23, 1999. --Alt_MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Off: Asilomar Farmers on Y2K This has been on other lists, but I thought some in the BDNow Hoop might li= ke to have it in stand alone form.  I have attached in in MS word '98 -= - so some may be able to recover it in that format.  It should come out= as two pages -- easy for back to back copying should you feel that would be= helpful for your community.

Peace, Steven

From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu=
Sustainable Agriculture Network
sanet-mg-digest      Wednesday, January 27 1999 &n= bsp;    Volume 01 : Number 781

Subject: Y2K Statement Emerges from Asilomar EcoFarm Conference


Y2K and the Food Supply

A Message from Concerned American Farmers:

 "Prepare&quo= t;


Our food system - from seed to table - is fragil= e. Potential disruptions of our food supply caused by the year 2000 computer= bug (Y2K) may highlight this vulnerability.

=85 Food travels an aver= age 1300 miles from farm-gate to dinner plate.

=85 Urban areas have onl= y 3 days supply of food in the supermarkets.

=85 Most food transactio= ns depend on thousands of computer chips.

=85 Farmers rely on inpu= ts of seeds, fertilizers, machinery, electricity, fuel and water to produce = and harvest our crops and livestock.

=85 Food processors rely= on automated systems to turn our harvests into
consumer-ready products.

=85 Distributors, wholes= alers and retailers depend on computerized systems to coordinate, transport,= refrigerate, store and sell food products to consumers.

According to the USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service, "Any interru= ption along this farm-to-fork chain can result in a direct loss to those who= supply food. That can mean more expensive, less available, food supplies.&q= uot;

We believe that our response to Y2K should be neither panic nor procrastina= tion, but rather, preparation. No one knows for sure if January 1, 2000 will= be a 'bump in the road' or a widespread breakdown.

As American farmers, we believe the responsible action is to prepare. It is= important to make changes that are broadly beneficial to the community, far= m, and food system, regardless of the uncertain consequences of Y2K.

Preparation for Y2K provides us an opportunity to shore up the vulnerabilit= y of our food system and make changes that will better enable farmers to kee= p the world fed - one community at a time - and to make our communities more= self-reliant .

As farmers, we believe that 1999 is not a time to 'run for the hills' but r= ather a time to head for our town halls to develop community-based strategie= s on how to keep our neighbors fed - both urban and rural - in event of disr= uption in food supplies.

We present the following ideas for consideration to prepare our farms and o= ur communities for the year 2000:

=85 Identify the resourc= es and skills within yourself, your family and your community to grow, proce= ss and prepare food. A variety of skills will be needed to make the food sys= tem resilient to disruption.

=85 Ask those with organ= izing skills to initiate community meetings to establish local contingency p= lans for food, security, energy and water supplies.
  
=85 Identify neighbors who may need extra assistance during a food crisis - th= e elderly, those with special diet requirements, and the poor. Include them = in planning.

=85 Establish individual= and community gardens, provide classes in gardening and food preservation.<= BR>
=85 Develop a "Y2K = Cookbook for Eating Locally" with help of chefs, older folks, and local= food editors.

=85 Buy directly from lo= cal producers. Opportunities include joining a CSA (community supported farm= ), keeping local farmers' markets open year round, and supporting roadside s= tands.

=85 Collaborate with pub= lic institutions (hospitals, schools, prisons) and private institutions (res= taurants and grocery stores) to identify local food sources and encourage th= em to begin now to buy locally produced and processed foods.

=85 Develop alternate wa= ter supplies, collections, storage and distribution systems.

=85 Buy a little extra s= eed and plant an open-pollinated seed garden.  If you plant open-pollin= ated seed this year you can then save the seed from your 1999 crops and plan= t it in the spring of 2000. Hybrid seeds will fail or mutate in their 2nd se= ason.

=85 Plant more storage c= rops and winter gardens.

=85 Fix or replace compu= ters and equipment not "Y2K compliant."

=85 Contact suppliers an= d customers about their preparations.

=85 Make alternate plans= if necessary.

On December 17, 1998 Janet Abrams, Executive Director of the President's Co= uncil on Year 2000 Conversion, said that the U.S. government anticipates &qu= ot; a large series of mild to moderate disruptions across the country...Thes= e are situations that in usual times you might be able to call on the state = or the federal government to help solve, but we are stressing to our local o= fficials that they're going to have to take care of these problems on their = own."

This means it is up to all of us. We invite you to join with others in your= community to build a more secure and resilient food system. A good first st= ep is starting the conversation with your family and your neighbors. We wish= you well.

Official Statement Endorsed by attendees of the 19th Annual Ecological F= arming Conference, Asilomar, California - January 23, 1999.
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--MS_Mac_OE_596788_3000463297_MIME_Part-- --MS_Mac_OE_3000463297_594176_MIME_Part-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Jan 29 18:27:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11732 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:27:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA06367; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:20:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mnsinc.com (relay1.mnsinc.com [206.55.3.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06059 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:18:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from lizard (a0079.chantilly.mns.net [206.239.104.111]) by relay1.mnsinc.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA18193 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:19:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:19:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990129181422.1bdf3598@mail.mnsinc.com> X-Sender: jspencer@mail.mnsinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: JSpencer Subject: OFF: VA Plant-Insect Workshop Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 The Virginia Native Plant Society has announced a one-day workshop on Nature's Partnerships: Plant-Insect Connections. The event will be held at the University of Richmond, Richmond VA, on Saturday, March 13, 1999. The workshop schedule consists of: Carnivorous Plants and Insect Interactions -- Philip M. Sheridan, Director, Meadowview Biological Research Station, Woodford VA The Importance of Bumblebees and Other Native Insects as Plant Pollinators -- Dr. Brad Goodner, Assistant Professor of Biology, University of Richmond Plant Galls: An Unequal Partnership -- Dr. Raymond J. Gagne, research entomologist retired from Systematic Entomology Laboratory, USDA Creating Urban Habitats for Moths and Butterflies -- Dr. Ronald J. Harvey, museum specialist in the Department of Entomology of the National Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution Registration fee is $10 for members of VNPS, $25 for non-members (which includes $15 membership). For more information, contact Effie Fox at 540-347-4090. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Jan 30 06:12:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA19220 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:12:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA23058; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:59:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA22976 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:57:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.174] (pm3mbr3-67-158.intrepid.net [206.102.67.158]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA00574; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:58:30 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:50:08 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: seeds Cc: hwashen@trace.net.tw Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 58 Hi, Can you refer me to sources of non-hybrid, open pollenating seeds? I am working with farmers in Taiwan using biodynamic methods to transition from chemical to organic farming. Thank you, Bill Watson Eden (T'ien Lin) Partners hwashen@trace.net.tw From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Jan 30 08:11:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA19831 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:11:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA27181; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:03:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA27109 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:01:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33843-28965>; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:02:24 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:02:24 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: biodynamics Subject: RE: Constitutional Elements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 59 Hi All; The Homeopathic on-line study group to which I belong has been discussing how to recognise a person's constitutional characterisitics, when 'in health', not as we usually read in texts describing constitutional prescribing as related to a person 'in disease.' Steiner's works and teachings are part of the July Homeopathic Conf. in Ottawa, so he is gradually creeping into our discussions and I thought perhaps some of you would appreciate the following. I posted this: > I was reading a book' Anthroposphical Medicine' by Victor Bott, MD and > it has a chart of the 4 Constitutional & Natural Elements,Cardinal > organs and Temperments. > > --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia email: av204@chebucto.ns.ca > > CONSTITUTIONAL CARDINAL NATURAL TEMPERMENTS > ELEMENTS ORGANS ELEMENTS > > Ego Heart Fire Choleric > > Astral Body Kidney Air Sanguine/Nervous > > Etheric Body Liver Water Lymphatic/Phlegmatic > > Physical Body Lung Earth Melancholic > > ----------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Jan 30 21:59:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09817 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:59:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA05679; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:51:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05436 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:49:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.174] (pm3mbr3-67-130.intrepid.net [206.102.67.130]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26163 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:50:51 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:49:54 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: women running with farms Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 Is anybody out there? End of Jan. and moon in most juicy Cancer I set the alarm for 4 am to catch a few more hrs of seed planting in the start house. Bitter cold for Northern California and I'm fighting off a flu that got me as I flatlined before the full moon. I am glad for the flow, even if my babes are grown, but why does my strong, otherwise well nourished,dairyless body go into immune freefall? Any feedback from a sister out there? We are one year into this project of rescuing this BD farm and filling a huge void on our coastal side of this beautiful land mass 16 miles from the ocean. The old farmer, Charles Martin moved away 2 years ago and left a mess. I saw this farm in it's prime 10 years ago and it is so worth saving. I kept a strong vision and some how raised the 40,000. for the down. It is truly magic as I am (was) a farmer without a farm because land prices are crazy here. Otherwise we have it all. Anyway, the old guy arranged a lease option with me and said he'de carry the contract, then as we go along, pulls out and I am faced with rejection from the Feds and their Morgage deals because sisters, my tax returns are not good enough! Any body got a name to lend to a great project, give me a mail. I'll find somebody to co-sign! I really could use some practical advice reguarding the seed planting guidelines. Being indoors a bit these past few days I am well into delete with over a thousand mails from bdnow,most of it junk but some real gems and great lectures. I went to Bioneers in Oct. and Anna Edey was a great inspiration for really looking at redesign of something as simple as my chicken coop. SO,what about seed planting,as we will be doing alot of it in weeks to come. I already have flts of spinach and Mache, lettuces so wee and dear ready to fill the cold frames. Started 16 new flats last week, and more this afternoon if my strengh holds. So can anyone answer these questions, if they haven't givin up reading..... I use the Stella Natura and today for example we were in flower till 11am which means 8am pacific time,(why I got up so early) I had sweet pea seeds soaking and thought...is it when you begin to expose aseed to any elemental force that would change it ,or when it comes in direct contact with the soil? What about seeds that need a soak or and type of scarification? Also, starting mix. I have always liked Chadwicks advice about providing some of the lands compost incorporated into a mix so they can taste the goodness to come from their moment of birth. I screen some good, finished stuff and mix it with the best so called organic mix I can get, these days it's ORGANIC GARDENER which says it contains sedge peat,perlite(yuck0 vericulite, chicken manure, rock phosphate, ground limestone, bat guano and kelp. Two thirds this, then farm compost, is this too rich. They seem to love it and starts are very healthy but the expense is much and we need to cut some costs as we are going from 1 to 4 acres production. I could use some interns this spring, anyone out there? Just got a call from my mom in Texas who till now has remained hardlined about her crazy, hippie, farmer daughter,should have married DR, Lawyer,etc. They will co sign!!!! Mama, I'm nearly middle age now, time to let it all go by,and as Joni says, HAPPINESS IS THE BEST FACE LIFT! this story will have a happy, visionary now and tomorrow,hey anybody want to invest? Gotta go, feeling a weight off, think I'll beat this flu after all. ANY WOMEN FARMERS OUT THERE IN BD LAND??? Kate Clark, FOXGLOVE FARM, COMPTCHE CA> Kate Clarke Reply-To: kyla@mcn.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Jan 30 22:46:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10440 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:46:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA10374; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:38:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10162 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:36:39 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AXLSa20555 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:37:06 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <3e7a5e7c.36b3cfe2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:37:06 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: women running with farms Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 Hi Kate, I enjoyed reading your thoughts. You sure do have many of them all going at once. Sounds like me. Although I am not the main farmer here I totally understand all that you mention about rescuing a farm and trying to figure out how to pay for it. I'm not the farmer here in Ke'anae, Maui, I am the farmer's wife. We too have tried to "buy" a few farms along the way, but none so far. We are renting an acre in Hawaii and are in our 9th year over here. My husband, Patrick is the best biodynamic farmer I know. Those biodynamic farmers are a determined bunch. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Keep them going. They are interesting and have a new perspective on the day to day chores of a woman living and running with the seedlings. Take care, Elizabeth tell your mom she is a wise lady investing in land that grows food. and I know of a few ladyfolks that ask about working on farms. I'll pass along your address From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 09:03:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16025 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:03:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA12258; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:56:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12055 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:53:22 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UAJKa03537 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:53:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <233ea625.36b46066@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:53:42 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: BD Newsletters & Journals, updated list Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 62 Dear Alan, While LILIPOH is not primarily a biodynamic publication, it finds itself adding more and more articles on biodynamics due to its focus on health. The upcoming issue, Allergies and Asthma, has a whole section on BD. Does this warrant inclusion in the list as a resource? Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 11:18:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17699 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:18:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA26551; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26373 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.19]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:18:46 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:11:31 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: January 30, 1999 - February 05, 1999 Message-ID: <74AEF8C752430DD18525670A0058DBE0.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id LAA26374 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 Happy Full Blue Moon and Eclipse!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Calendar of the Soul [January 30, 1999 - February 05, 1999] Forty-third Week (January 26-February 1) In winter's depths is kindled True spirit life with glowing warmth; It gives to world appearance, Through forces of the heart, the power to be. Grown strong, the human soul defies With inner fire the coldness of the world. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ In winterlichen Tiefen Erwarmt des Geistes wahres Sein; Es gibt dem Weltenscheine Durch Herzenskräfte Daseinsmächte; Der Weltenkälte trotzt erstarkend Das Seelenfeuer im Menscheninnern. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+43 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 14:51:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA22748 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:51:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23430; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:44:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23093 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:41:31 -0500 (EST) From: marnew@webtv.net Received: from mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.170]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id LAA07182; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:42:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id LAA28193; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:42:42 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAgGsmro3lZSBgnURtsAQ7am7HutsCFGO0ZDNpK6EDSeUNCrFtSSdnGS+p Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:42:42 -0500 (EST) To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: women running with farms Message-ID: <20738-36B4B232-110@mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Intergalactic Garage 's message of Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:49:54 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 64 I admire your life choices. i live in manhattan and teach writing at a couple of universities. I participate in a CSA and have been into organics and beyond for many years. Re: your health, check out "eat right for your blood type " by peter d'adamo. (Putnam 96) It contains what may be breakthrough info. d'adamo and his father before him are naturopathic physicians who have been testing out their theories for decades. Marcia Newfield From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 21:33:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28483 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:33:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03610; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:26:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03246 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:22:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from pc.vaxxine.com (ppp12.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.12]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA21759 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:24:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990131212835.007d3a30@vaxxine.com> X-Sender: laura_s@vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:28:35 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Laura Sabourin Subject: Re: pig-er-ators and BD compost preps In-Reply-To: <199901311701.MAA00802@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 65 I'm think of getting a few pigs to turn my compost (100+ tonnes) and wondered if anyone on the list has used this method. My concern is when would you apply the compost preps ? Pre or Post Pig ? Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 ICQ 23006168 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 22:44:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29210 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:44:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA13750; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:37:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13291 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:35:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.173] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06742 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:36:58 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:13:44 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: BD/Paramagnetics Research question Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 66 Bob Pike the organic ag techno person in Maine recently told me that Maria Menger (?) in CA tested some soil with a paramagnetic meter which showed a reading of paramagnetic150 . She then applied a BD prep, perhaps 500, then at some time tested treated soil which showed 350. Very interesting. Lots more to know about this little trial, but Bob Pike doesn't know how to contact her. Does anyone know how to contact her? Also of interest in this matter is that Hugh C. told me a while back that he had the preps tested on paramag. meter and they yielded numbers of little or no interest meaning that the numbers were slightly either side of neutral on the meter. If all this is so, Maria's result idicates, perhaps, that both agent and target come alive upon their contact. Any case, some more information from Maria is required, some contact with her to make this come alive and be worthwhile information beyond being only rumor. Any case, Merry Christmas, Happy This Year, folks! Jim. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 22:44:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29222 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA13994; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:37:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13362 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:35:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.173] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06804 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:37:12 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990131212835.007d3a30@vaxxine.com> References: <199901311701.MAA00802@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:34:58 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: pig-er-ators and BD compost preps Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 67 >I'm think of getting a few pigs to turn my compost (100+ tonnes) and >wondered if anyone on the list has used this method. My concern is when >would you apply the compost preps ? Pre or Post Pig ? >Laura Sabourin >Feast of Fields Inc >Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht >Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net >R R # 1 >St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 >ICQ 23006168 Dear Laura - Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but wouldn't a pigerator cause uncomposted swine manure to be in your 'finished' compost? It is my understanding that swine manure has been identified as a carrier of pathogens that humans are susceptible to and that even in its fully composted state it is as objectionable as a source of nutrients for food crops as humanure is. ("Swine Flu" was a literal term, you know) I guess this isn't so important if the compost is headed to a pasture or for daylillies...but if it's headed to a vegetable garden or vineyard...hey, watch out!! Just my two-cents. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Jan 31 22:44:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29230 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:44:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA13888; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:37:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13347 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:35:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.173] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06776 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:37:04 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:26:48 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF:FWD: Leonard Peltier, other native issues Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 68 Dear RN List, Jan. 29 Viviane Lerner just sent us news of the upcoming Day of Protest to Free Leonard Peltier (FEB. 6). I am pleased to have this opportunity to invite you to join the struggle for justice for Leonard Peltier and for indigenous people in general. Someone who has not forgotten Leonard Peltier and who speaks movingly on his behalf is a good friend of mine, Jennifer Wade. Jennifer has been involved in many, many social justice causes, from the civil rights movement in the US, to helping found Amnesty International groups, to helping homeless children, prisoners' rights; the list could go on forever! She is urging people to write Hilary Clinton, to press for clemency for Peltier: To: jslakov@tartannet.ns.ca (Jan Slakov) From: "C.Kline" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:26:49 -0800 Dear Jan: Perhaps by nopw you have heard that WILPF-BC's Jan. 9th programme meeting was [...] about Leonard Peltier who has been held in an American prison for 21 years. Jennifer gave an impassioned documented account of this Lakota Sioux Indian and leader of the American Indian Movement who was found guilty of killing two FBI agents (despite strong evidence suggesting that the trial was a travesty of justice). She pointed out that Ramsey Clark, Jesse Jackson and many other knowledgeable and informed people from around the world have been urging that the case be re-opened or that the the US simply grant him executive clemency. Condemning Canada for not lodging a formal complaint with the U.S. authorities, Jennifer said that Leonard Peltier's situation is known around the world and is seen as a symbol of the mistreatment of native people in America. She has launched a "Hillary Campaign for Leonard," and urges all of us committed to human rights and justice to write to the US First Lady asking her to intercede on his behalf. Hillary's e-mail address is . (The unusual puncuation is correct!) Mailing address is The White House, 1600 Pennsyylvania Ave., Wsashington, D.C. 20500, US. Another action Jennifer suggested is to send a card to Leonard Peltier: POW #89637-132, Box 1000, Leavenworth, Kansas 66048 USA. Leonard Peletier now is very ill and wants only to be reunited with his family and friends for the time he has left. Carolyn Kline, WILPF-BC ************************************************ It is because of my friendship with Jennifer that I know about and have become involved in what is known as the "Kevin Annett case". Kevin Annett was a United Church minister until he was "de-listed" by that Church after he began helping native people bring to light stories of abuse in Canada's residential schools.* Jennifer sat through the United Church hearings which ended up with Kevin's de-listing and was appalled at the unfairness of the whole process. With time, it has become apparent that very powerful people in B.C. (Britich Columbia) want Kevin Annett silenced, even to the extent of arranging for the brake lines of his car to be cut! (*The extent of this abuse is truly shocking: According to the Report of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples, some 40% or 50,000 children sent to residential schools DIED there. And many of those who lived have the sequels of horrible abuse to live with.) To find out more about this case, please write to me or to Kevin himself at Kevin Daniel Annett . You can also check out this month's _New Internationalist_, which has an article about the case. all the best, Jan ******************************************************************** X-Sender: vlerner@smtp.interpac.net Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:49:09 -0800 From: viviane lerner Subject: Fwd: International Day of Protest to Free Leonard Peltier >Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:39:37 -0500 (EST) >To: noflyby@nonviolence.org >From: Leonard Peltier Support Group >Subject: International Day of Protest to Free Leonard Peltier > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > >International Day of Protest to Free Leonard Peltier - February 6th > > >Contacts: Leonard Peltier Support Group / Greater New England > P.O. Box 1999 Jonathan Mark 978-544-7862 > Wendell Depot, MA 01380 Rebecca Tidwell 203-634-8247 > >Leonard Peltier Defense Committee Attn:Gina Chiala or Keith McHenry >P.O. Box 583, Lawrence, KS 66044 Tel: 785-842-5774, Fax: 5796 >http://members.xoom.com/freepeltier/index.html > > >"I have never lost my strong belief in the Creator. I know that he has asked >me to sacrifice to aid my people and I am doing that. I pray that this is >not a lifelong obligation. Perhaps I am here to call attention to the plight >of Indian people or maybe I am here to further the fight for our religious >and cultural freedom. Perhaps my imprisonment will expose this country's >dual judicial system and maybe it will help to unite people all races and >religions in the crucial quest for peace and justice." > >- Leonard Peltier > > > >Groups in over 30 cities plan to unite for an International Day of Protest >to Free Leonard Peltier on February 6, 1999. Among the locations* where the >protests will take place are London; Amsterdam; Brussels; Washington, D.C.; >San Diego; Tacoma, WA; Rapid City SD; and Springfield, MA. The Leonard >Peltier Support Group / Greater New England will be rallying and >distributing literature on Peltier's case outside the Federal Building at >1550 Main Street in Springfield, Massachusetts, beginning at noon. > >February 6, 1999 marks the twenty-third anniversary of Native American >leader Leonard Peltier's incarceration for allegedly killing two FBI agents >on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in 1975. With a profound hope that he >will be free before the millennium, numerous groups have planned events >about Leonard's plight on this anniversary. As supporters of Leonard's >innocence, right to freedom, and valued leadership, we are determined to >work for his release. > >There is overwhelming evidence that his imprisonment is a gross injustice: >(1) U.S. Prosecutors have admitted they cannot prove Peltier fired the shots >that killed the agents; (2) The FBI withheld information from the Peltier >defense on key ballistic tests pointing to Leonard's innocence. > >And there is much more indicating that Peltier is essentially a political >prisoner of the United States. At the time of the shootout in which the two >agents and a Native American died, traditional Lakota Native Americans were >resisting the seizure of their land for uranium mining. In the two years >before the incident, over 60 resisters had been murdered, without >investigation, by a death squad directed by a Native American Council leader >known to be armed, trained, and directed by the FBI. > >Moreover, Leonard Peltier was extradited to the United States from Canada on >the basis of affidavits acknowledged to be false by the Supreme Court of >Canada and by the U.S. government in June 1989. In a 1989 decision, the >Supreme Court of Canada called the affidavits "suspect to the point of >fraud," and urged the Canadian government to "seek immediate and effective >diplomatic redress." > >As of June 1998, the internal review of the facts concerning Leonard's >extradition from Canada was cleared for release to the public, at the >discretion of Canada's Minister of Justice, the Honorable Anne McLellan. >There is little doubt the report will clearly state that the U.S. >fraudulently obtained Leonard's extradition -- and that under the terms of >our countries' extradition treaty, the U.S. must return him to Canada, where >he will finally be freed. So far, Justice McLellan has refused to release >this report. > >Leonard Peltier is currently suffering from complications of maxilla-facial >surgery he underwent at the Springfield, KS, Medical facility in 1996. He is >in excruciating pain, and his health is in peril. Though prison physician >Dr. Collins recommends Leonard be treated at the Mayo clinic in Rochester, >N.Y., prison officials refuse to temporarily transfer Leonard. Many of the >February 6 protesters are fasting and writing letters to help pressure the >Bureau of Prisons, Leavenworth prison, and the U.S. Congress to permit >Leonard's immediate transfer to the Mayo Clinic to relieve his agony. > >We are also actively lobbying President Clinton to finally abide by his 1992 >campaign promise to give Leonard Peltier's case "a fair and impartial >review." Peltier filed a petition for Executive Clemency on November 19, >1993, citing the support of such world leaders as Nelson Mandela and Jesse >Jackson, 55 members of Congress, and resolutions passed by several European >Parliaments. Meanwhile, 20 million people have written the U.S. Government >on behalf of Leonard Peltier, and Amnesty International has cited the >Peltier case as a glaring example of FBI tampering with the judicial process >in a political trial. More than five years after the petition was filed, >President Clinton said the Justice Department hasn't given him their >recommendation yet. This process normally takes six to nine months. > >In the first trial regarding the 1975 shoot-out with the FBI on the Pine >Ridge Reservation, two American Indian Movement (AIM) members were found not >guilty by the jury for reason of self-defense. After losing that case, the >FBI seemed to have crossed ethical and legal boundaries to capture and >convict AIM leader, Leonard Peltier. Now, twenty-three years later, the >February 6 events will be an opportunity to inform more people about the >gross injustices of this case and how to further the support of Leonard >Peltier for justice and human rights. > > > >* "International Day of Protest to Free Leonard Peltier" 6 February 1999 >will be found in the following locations: > >Europe >Amsterdam, Netherlands; Brussells, Belgium; Paris, France; Helsinki, >Finland; London, England; Derby, England > >South America >Lima, Peru > >Canada >Toronto, Ontario; Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario; Victoria, British Columbia; >Regina, Saskatchewan > >United States >Albany, NY; Atlanta, Ga; Boston, MA; Baltimore, MD; Chicago, IL; Portland, >OR; Eugene, OR; Cincinnati, OH; Kent, OH; Lawrence, KS; Houston, TX; San >Diego, CA; San Francisco, CA; Nashville, TN; Rapid City, SD; Springfield, >MA; Washington, DC; Portland, ME; Tacoma, WA; Denver, CO; Pontiac, MI; >Louisville, KY; Lincoln, NE; Starkville, MS; Jewett City, CT; Hyannis, MA; >Hilton Head, SC; Milwaukee, WI > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: renaissance-network-unsubscribe@cyberjournal.org For additional commands, e-mail: renaissance-network-help@cyberjournal.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 00:31:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA00670 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:31:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA26238; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA25933 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:19:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA09087; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:23:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:23:42 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org cc: clang@webcity-development.com Subject: GENews1-31 (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 69 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:27:05 -0500 From: Richard Wolfson To: info@natural-law.ca Subject: GENews1-31 Thanks to: Jonathan Matthews for distributing the next 2 articles through the NORFOLK GENETIC INFORMATION NETWORK (ngin) http://members.tripod.com/~ngin/ 1. Daily Mail, January 30th, 1999 Plant trials abandoned after 'crop-squat' protest PLANS to grow genetically modified Crops in Britain have suffered a serious setback. Trials on fields owned by Sir Timothy Colman, Lord Lieutenant of Norfolk, and his family have been abandoned after a series of protests, including a three-week long 'crop squat'. Sir Timothy, a member of the Colman's mustard family, insisted he was not involved in the matter, which was dealt with by land agents. 'I welcome the debate on genetic modification - it is an important issue - but I cannot discuss this,' he said. A spokesman for the agents said the trials, on about two acres rented at Kirby Bedon, near Norwich, were run by two firms, Novartis of Switzerland and Monsanto of the U.S. They involved genetically modified sugar beet which had been made resistant to a weedkiller. Commercial farming of GM crops has not yet been approved by the Government. Trials are being carried out at more than 300 sites across the country. There are worries, however, about the monitoring of the experiments, including fears that not enough is being done to ensure the GM crops do not pass on their characteristics to wild plants, creating mutations which could ruin the countryside. 2. Eastern Daily Press, Satunby, January 3O, 1999 Norfolk estate to end GM crops testing: 'Public disquiet' a factor in decision A major Norfook estate is to halt the testing of genetically-modified crops on its land. Crown Point Farms is ending its relationship with bio-technology seed giants Novartis and Monsanto. The decision of the estate, which is owned by the county's Lord Lieutenant Sir Timothy Colman follows intensifying media coverage of bio-engineered foods. Last summer, a GM sugar beet test crop grown on land owned by the estate at Kirby Bedon, near Norwich, was destroyed by protesters as they staged Britain's first ever "crop squat". Estate manager Roly Beazley said the decision to end the GM test plantings, which began in 1994, was made by "mutual agreement" with the biotech firms. However, mounting public concern and media coverage had played their part. "I think the public disquiet and the debate about GM crops that's been running in the national media is a factor," said Mr Beazley. He was unable to say how many test plots had been planted on Crown Point Estate land in the last four years, but said that the largest area in any one year under GM planting was 0.7 hectares (1.7 acres). All tests had been carried out in the full knowledge of the Department of the Environment and followed government regulations ensuring there was no risk of cross-pollinating other plants, he said. The register compiled by ACRE - the Advisory Committee on Releases to the Environment - monitoring GM field tests, reveal that Novartis was licensed to continue planting on CPF land until 2002, and Monsanto until 2003. Environmental campaigners against GM food were jubilant when they learned the plantings were to end. Jonathan Matthews, spokesman for the Norfolk Genetic Information Network, said: "Up till now Crown Point Farms has been heavily involved in these trials and so this news will be very warmly welcomed." Ends ........ Thanks to: jim@niall7.demon.co.uk (jim mcnulty) for posting this: Got hormones? Bovine growth drug under fire Times Union (Albany, NY) Publication Date: January 26, 1999 It was the confluence of two important events that made Carol Baxter start buying organic milk about five and a half years ago. Her oldest daughter had just turned 1 and soon would move from breast milk to cow's milk. And American dairy farmers had just received approval to inject their cows with recombinant bovine growth hormone, a genetically engineered hormone that increases milk production. Baxter, who lives in Palisades, Rockland County, knew of environmental groups' claims that treated cows got more infections and needed more antibiotics, which could then enter their milk. And she learned that some scientists had raised the possibility of an increased cancer risk in people who drank the milk. "Milk is such an important part of a child's diet," she said. "I didn't want my child to be a guinea pig." The Food and Drug Administration has long dismissed such concerns. In the journal Science in 1990, two agency scientists concluded that "no toxicologically significant changes" were seen in rats that ingested the hormone. The agency's approval of the hormone in 1993 rested on the strength of that 90-day rat study, which was commissioned by [ Monsanto ] , the manufacturer. Safety questions about the hormone never went away among health- conscious consumers, and recently the old questions have resurfaced in light of new research and a fresh examination of the rat study. Last week, the Canadian government said that it would not approve the synthetic hormone. Canadian scientists reviewed unpublished data from the study and found health effects that had not been cited in the Science report. Canada's decision leaves the United States the only major country to permit use of the synthetic hormone. Canadian report In its analysis of the Monsanto rat study, the Canadian scientists found that 20 percent to 30 percent of the rats that ingested high doses of the hormone developed antibodies to it, a sign that it was active in the bloodstream. And some of the male rats developed cysts on their thyroids and abnormalities in their prostates. In December, after the Canadian researchers released their findings, Sens. Patrick Leahy and James Jeffords, both of Vermont, asked Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala to investigate whether the FDA overlooked evidence in the case. Shalala has not yet responded. In addition, in December, 21 dairy farmer associations and consumer groups in the United States said they would file suit against the FDA for failing to require additional safety studies of the hormone. "The 90-day rat study doesn't show that recombinant bovine growth hormone is a human health hazard," said Dr. Michael Hanson, a research associate for the Consumer Policy Research Institute, a division of the Consumers Union, one of the groups. "But neither does it show that there is no possibility of any health hazard, as FDA claimed. It's clear that FDA has grossly misled us." The agency is writing a response to the concerns, said Dr. Stephen Sundlof, director of its Center for Veterinary Medicine. He acknowledged that the agency had not reviewed the antibody data in the approval process "for reasons I can't explain." He said the agency had seen the information on the thyroid and prostate effects, but considered them "biologically meaningless" because they were no more prevalent in rats fed high doses of the hormone than in those fed low doses. Ordinarily, if a substance like a drug affects the body, the effects increase as the dose increases. "Consumers have no reason to be concerned about the milk," he said. Monsanto said its product, called Posilac, is safe. Extensive evaluations have established that the hormone supplements for cows do not change the composition and wholesomeness of milk, Dr. David Kowalczyk and Dr. Robert Collier, Monsanto scientists, wrote in a statement released Jan. 12. The scientists point out that the United Nations Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives, which determines the safety of residues from veterinary drugs in foods, affirmed in March that the growth hormone was safe. More studies In addition to the Canadian investigation, two studies published last year rekindled long-standing worries about a possible increased risk of cancer from consuming milk from hormone-treated cows. Reports from two continuing Harvard-based studies, the Physicians' Health Study and the Nurses' Health Study, found that insulin-dependent growth factor 1, a protein that is elevated in the milk of hormone- treated cows, is a strong risk factor for breast cancer and prostate cancer. Researchers in the study say this protein circulates naturally in the human body at such high levels that the added amount in treated milk is unlikely to be noticed. Also, it occurs in breast milk in higher amounts than in the milk of hormone-treated cows. And, the researchers say there is no evidence that consuming the substance in food contributes to cancer risk. Last January, scientists with the Physicians' Health Study reported in Science that men with the highest levels of IGF-1 in their blood were four times as likely to develop prostate cancer as men with the lowest levels. In May, scientists with the Nurses' Health study reported in The Lancet that premenopausal women with high levels of IGF-1 had up to a sevenfold increase in breast cancer risk over those with low levels. They said the findings suggest "that the relation between IGF-1 and risk of breast cancer may be greater than that of other established breast-cancer risk factors," except for family history and dense breast tissue. Dr. Michael Pollack, who was involved with both studies, noted that the difference between the IGF-1 in milk from untreated cows and treated cows is relatively small. Levels range from 1 to 9 nanograms per milliliter of milk from untreated cows and 1 to 13 nanograms per milliliter of milk from treated cows, the FDA said. Still, he said he could not rule out the possibility that daily exposure to the small additional amounts of IGF-1 in milk over a lifetime could increase a person's cancer risk. "It's a hypothetical concern," he said. Even though the increased amount of IGF-1 in treated milk is small, Hanson said the possible health effects could not be dismissed. He cited a 1995 study in the Journal of Endocrinology showing that the breakdown of IGF-1 in rats is slowed in the presence of casein, a protein in milk. "If casein increases the half life of IGF-1, the effects could be dramatic," he said. More testing Several experts agree with the Consumers Union and the other parties in the planned lawsuit against the FDA that more testing is needed to establish whether bovine growth hormone supplementation is safe. "More studies need to be done," said Dr. Marion Nestle, director of the department of nutrition at New York University, who opposed the approval of the hormone as a representative on the drug agency's advisory panel that approved it. "The science on the effects of oral ingestion of IGF-1 is incomplete," the American Medical Association said in a statement last month, in response to a reporter's questions. In the climate of uncertainty, one thing is for sure. Many consumers want milk without added hormones and antibiotics. Sales of organic milk nearly doubled to almost $31 billion in 1997, from about $16 million in 1996, according to dairy industry figures. Some supermarkets, such as Price Chopper, which sells Organic Cow milk in some of its stores, offers milk that states on the label the cows haven't been treated with the genetically engineered hormone. Wendy Gordon, executive director of Mothers and Others for a Livable Planet, said demand was strong for its list of milk manufacturers, organic and nonorganic, whose dairies pledge not to use the synthetic hormone. Those are the dairies whose products are typically sold at health food stores, such as Honest Weight Food Co- op in Albany. "To the best of our knowledge, all of our dairy products, milk and cheese, come from dairies that say they don't use the bovine growth hormone," said Anton Burkett, merchandising coordinator. "We deal with a lot of producers who are organically certified, and get documentation from producers that say they don't use it." (Copyright 1999) .......... European moratorium on clinical tests of animal organ transplants into human beings. (Forwarded by NLP Wessex nlpwessex@bigfoot.com) BBC NEWS 30 January 1999 Sci/Tech Setback for animal to human transplants Pigs are genetically modified to make organs compatible with humans By Corinne Podger of BBC Science The Council of Europe has voted for a moratorium on clinical tests of animal organ transplants into human beings. The decision will be a heavy blow to researchers working on the technique, known as "xenotransplantation". It also means the global shortage of human donor organs will have to be solved some other way. Millions of dollars have already been poured into research on transplanting animal organs into humans. Transplants postponed indefinitely until more is known Most researchers have focused on pigs, which are highly compatible with humans - and by adding some human genes to specially bred pigs, it reduces the risk that transplanted animal organs will be rejected by their human recipients. But researchers have run up against persistent problems. These involve a number of viruses which - while harmless to pigs - might pose serious health risks to humans, and possibly cause new human diseases. While not banning the idea of animal organ transplants altogether, the council of Europe voted to ban clinical tests on real patients in Europe - and wants to see that ban extended worldwide. As a result, any trials of the transplants, which might have gone ahead in Europe this year, have been indefinitely postponed until more is known about the potential hazards. Ethics questions The council also expressed concern about the ethics of animal organ transplants, both for humans, and for animal welfare. With an international shortage of human organs for transplants, many people die while waiting in vain for an organ - like a heart or a liver - that they desperately need. But with the council's decision, animal organs are not going to be the answer - at least in the short term. ............ Posted by: jim@niall7.demon.co.uk (jim mcnulty) Beans means genes Sunday Times - London 24/Jan 99 As the debate about genetically modified food grows, few realise that it is too late to worry: we are already eating it. Stephen Bevan and Jack Grimston report On the streets of Colchester last week the supermarket shoppers were clear: they did not want scientists monkeying around with their food. Forget stay-fresh tomatoes or ever-crunchy lettuce. What the citizens of Essex say they prefer is natural fare, not food derived from "mutant" species of genetically engineered plants. "My main priority is to buy food that is nutritional and safe to eat," said Diana Rees, a local resident. "The thought of a scientist in a lab somewhere playing around with what is going to end up on our plates does not seem natural." Anna Hammond, 36, a mother of two, was also con cerned, but like many people believed the day of genetically modified (GM) food had yet to arrive in Britain. "I know that some stores are keen to sell the stuff but I am not happy about it," she said. "I would be very unhappy if they tried to sneak in things like gene-modified food without telling us." Hammond should prepare to be unhappy. Pick up a packet of biscuits or a ready-made meal or many processed foods in any high street store and the chances are that it will already contain a GM ingredient. It will often not be included on the label, but it will be lurking there whether the stores like it or not. About 60% of processed foods contain soya, according to some estimates. The largest supplier is America, where genetically modified soya and maize are grown across a greater expanse than all the cultivated land in Britain. That soya and maize are exported, mixed with ordinary crops. Nobody can be sure exactly how much ends up in food consumed in Britain. But surely at least our green and pleasant land is free from "Frankenstein flora" because farmers are not yet allowed to grow GM crops? Wrong again. Two weeks ago the government approved the cultivation of a GM oilseed rape after its scientific advisers said the crop would pose no danger to the environment. Other biotech crops are likely to follow. Last week a House of Lords committee examining genetic engineering in agriculture concluded that the benefits of GM food outweighed the risks. "Biotechnology in general and genetic modification in particular offer great potential benefits to agriculture, industry, consumers and even to the environment," said the committee. Opponents accused members of siding with the interests of big business, not the consumer; they claim that nobody can safely predict the effect of letting genetically modified organisms loose among the hedgerows. They also point out that Lord Sainsbury, a government minister involved in policy discussions about GM food, faces a conflict of interest: he has links to the Sainsbury's supermarket chain and to a charitable organisation researching plant science. Professor Tim Lang, director of the Centre for Food Policy at Thames Valley University, said: "There is a juggernaut of billions of dollars of investment in biotechnology, mainly from US companies. It's the fourth revolution since settled agriculture began. I say, hold on. Let's be really sure about these things; let's take it on a case by case basis." THE science is spectacular. Where once cross-breeding was a haphazard affair, now it is possible to take a single gene from one organism and implant it in the DNA of another, altering the properties of plants and animals. Soya can be made resistant to herbicides; wheat can be engineered to produce better flour. Other suggestions are more outlandish. A gene from a jellyfish, for example, can be used as a fluorescent marker and some scientists envisage it making plants glow to indicate when they are short of water or diseased. At first it seemed as if such advances might cause no stir. Ten years ago cheese-makers looking for an alternative to rennet - which comes from the linings of dead calves' stomachs - turned to chymosin, an enzyme produced by genetically modified bacteria. It is now used in making more than 70% of hard cheeses. Nobody seems to mind. By 1996 supermarkets such as [ Safeway ] and Sainsbury's had introduced GM tomato puree, clearly labelled as genetically modified. [ Monsanto ] , a giant American agri-business, was encouraged enough to mount an advertising campaign extolling the benefits of genetic engineering. To a public suspicious after the BSE crisis, the campaign was a big mistake. Surveys showed opinion hardened against GM crops. In Totnes, Devon, tempers boiled over. Guy Watson had built up a successful business there growing organic vegetables. Consumers were voting with their wallets, buying 2.5% more organic food each year. Sainsbury's reported re cently that sales of organic food had jumped from nothing 15 years ago to more than Pounds 1m a week. Watson was enjoying the boom until a seed company chose to grow a trial crop of GM maize next to his farm. He believed the GM maize could cross-fertilise his organic sweetcorn, ruining his status as an organic farm. Watson went to court, lost his case, but won in practice. Local campaigners (not including him) dug up the three trial plots of GM crops. His fears may not have been unfounded. Next month Monsanto is being taken to court for breaching the guidelines over the test growing of a GM crop in Lincolnshire, alleging it failed to separate the GM crop sufficiently from neighbouring fields. Last week Farmers Weekly reported what is thought to be the first case of accidental cross-pollination between GM crops and conventional plants. The authorities are investigating. Prince Charles, the country's best known organic vegetable grower, summed up the fears of many. We should not be "meddling with the building blocks of life", he said last month. "Mixing genetic material from species that cannot breed naturally takes us into areas that should be left to God." In the face of public disquiet, some British local authorities and schools have introduced bans on GM foods, though they are hard to enforce. "It is down to trust between us, the contractor, his suppliers and the manufacturers," said Mark Sleep, manager of catering services at Kent county council. The supermarkets, too, have begun to backtrack. Sainsbury's has no plans to introduce more GM products, said a spokesman, and has been trying to find sources of unmodified soya. Asda is reformulating its own-label products - among them its economy brand baked beans - to ensure they are free of GM ingredients. The consumer, however, is left baffled. Regulations on the labelling of GM food products are a mess. Nobody can decide what should be the minimum content of GM ingredients that must be declared; additives derived from GM sources do not have to be listed; and European Union regulations on approving GM foods apply only to those introduced after May 1997. The whole regulatory approach is flawed, says Julie Shepherd, of the Consumers' Association, because it is based on testing end products. But the testing technology has yet to be fully developed. "The entire labelling system is predicated on the accuracy of tests that no agency has accredited," she says. AT MONSANTO, the GM enthusiasts talk excitedly of everything from more efficient farming to vitamin-enriched fruit and vegetables and plants that will produce biodegradable plastics. They dismiss the perceived risks as overblown, the science as misunderstood. Dr Ray Mathias, of the John Innes Centre, which studies plant biology, argues that people have been interfering in the genetic make-up of plants and animals for hundreds of years through cross- breeding. What genetic engineering can do is bring precision to the process and greater benefits. "Increasingly the focus will be on producing plants that can tolerate greater salinity, extremes of temperature or drought conditions," he said. The centre is working on enhancing the natural cancer-preventing properties of members of the brassica family, which includes broccoli and Brussels sprouts. Will these arguments wash with the public? Research by Sheffield University shows that at present they won't. People do not trust industry and government information. Sue Mayer, of the pressure group Genewatch, believes consumers will remain suspicious until they have a greater say about GM foods. "The government has got to sort out its policy," she said. "At the moment there seems to be an implicit policy that, basically, GM crops and food are a good thing." To GM sceptics, being safe is better than being experimental and sorry. "Why are these things needed?" asked Richard Lacey, emeritus professor of microbiology at Leeds University. "If you take a modified maize or soya, the average consumer won't taste any difference. We don't know what the risk is and there is no great benefit." The advantages lie mainly with the agricultural companies and retailers, not consumers, say critics. Even some of the advantages are disputed: In America some farmers complain that GM crops have failed to live up to their promise, producing low yields and poor hardiness. "The downside is that if you genetically modify in a substantial way, rather than in the gradual breeding and hybridisation programmes that have been going on for centuries, then if you get a dramatic change in food, animal or plant, how do you establish that the product is safe for the environment and the consumer?" said Lacey. Until the industry can persuade people otherwise, opposition to GM foods is likely to intensify. The uncomfortable reality is, however, that consumers are already buying the stuff unwittingly. (Copyright Times Newspapers Ltd, 1999) .......... Joanna Blythman The Guardian 31/1/99 Why governments can't be trusted to protect us against gene foods Soetning happened on Tuesday that kicked one issue to the top of the consumer food agenda . In an unprecedented action more than 130 of Britain's leading food writers and chefs shared a platform with Greenpeace to call for a ban on gene foods. Food writers don't agree easily on on anything; we'll split arcane hairs over how much humidity should be left in sun-dried tomatoes or the optimum cocoa solid ratio for dark chocolate. That's why our concensus that gene foods are a recipe for disater is so significant. Our action started with the realisation that gene foods are the single most important food issue of our lifetimes Gene food s have been creeping into my awareness since 1993, when some top German chefs announced their opposition because of the risks they pose to human health and the enviroment. Since then I have watched the relentless progress of this genetic experiment, through the regulatory process with a growing sense of frustration. Governments and bureaucrats are rolling over for the biotech industry although every indicator of public opinion in Europe and the UK shows that the more consumers know about gene foods the less they want them. Now foods with genetically modified are on our shelves and it has become apparent that we were always going to get them, against our wishes and against our consent. It makes nonsense of any notion of demacratic public control of our precious food chain. _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months See website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 12:13:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09278 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:13:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19143; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:05:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09974 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:09:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-5.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.37]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id IAA18364 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:11:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902011611.IAA18364@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 09:06:02 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: pig-er-ators and BD compost preps In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990131212835.007d3a30@vaxxine.com> References: <199901311701.MAA00802@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 Laura: I agree with Allan's take on the unadvisability of adding not-so-nice uncomposted pigshit to finished compost, and will add these thoughts: 1) why bother to turn the compost at all? 2) pig based "turning" is going to result in a scattered, trampled mess... Sounds like a non-starter to me, Laura. Woody At 09:28 PM 1/31/99 -0500, you wrote: >I'm think of getting a few pigs to turn my compost (100+ tonnes) and >wondered if anyone on the list has used this method. My concern is when >would you apply the compost preps ? Pre or Post Pig ? >Laura Sabourin >Feast of Fields Inc >Biodynamically Certified Organic Farm http://www.ragdolls.net/farm.eht >Ragenesque Ragdoll Cattery http://www.ragdolls.net >R R # 1 >St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7 >ICQ 23006168 > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 15:52:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA14762 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:52:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA26115; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:44:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f181.hotmail.com [207.82.251.70]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA23679 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:33:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 26906 invoked by uid 0); 1 Feb 1999 20:34:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19990201203422.26905.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:33:57 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD/Paramagnetics Research question Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:33:57 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 Hello, It seems to me that if Barrel Compost Preparation with the addition of Basalt or some other highly paramagnetic rock powder were added that the reading would be on par. In addition, if humus through 500 was added to soil vacant with organic matter, mabey it is the contrast between the dia and para- magnetic causing the increased meter readings. Sincerely, Michael < Bob Pike the organic ag techno person in Maine recently told me that Maria Menger (?) in CA tested some soil with a paramagnetic meter which showed a reading of paramagnetic150 . She then applied a BD prep, perhaps 500, then at some time tested treated soil which showed 350. Very interesting. Lots more to know about this little trial, ...> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 17:19:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17584 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:19:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA10091; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:10:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.132]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09770 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:08:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id RAA05420; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:08:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:07:19 -0500 From: Judith VanRiper <73512.1113@compuserve.com> Subject: women running with farms Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org To: "INTERNET:bdnow@envirolink.org" , Kate Clarke Message-ID: <199902011708_MC2-68CC-F975@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: Judith VanRiper <73512.1113@compuserve.com> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 72 Fellow runner Kate: I have a farm in Puerto Rico which takes most of my time. It is the second farm I have owned here, the first (65 acres) was expropriated for a highway, now the highway people are threatening to do it again to my smaller (10 acres) one. If it happens again, I think I will just be a free-lance farmer. It has been my experience that women do bring something different to agriculture, perhaps a more nuturing concern and with more emphasis on the whole rather than the parts.. Lets keep a running list. It would be a great way to spend a vacation and/or more time getting the "feel of the land" all around the world. I am in the process of rehab'ing an 80 year old house as guest quarters. Keep in touch. Judith VanRiper HC 08 Box 1145 Ponce, PR 00731 73512.1113@compuserve.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 17:35:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17952 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:35:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA13230; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:28:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12969 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:26:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp199.cy-net.net [208.21.195.8]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA02056 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:41:22 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4DFF.A7CD4740@FLYLO>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:26:44 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4DFF.A7CD4740@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: women running with farms Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:26:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4DFF.A7D4E860" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 73 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4DFF.A7D4E860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm new and missed the start of this thread. Could someone clue me in? I'm a woman running a farm in Texas and have a small goat dairy and = gardens on 135 acres, not certified OG, but no chemicals. Mostly open = pollinated seed types.=20 martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html -----Original Message----- From: Judith VanRiper [SMTP:73512.1113@compuserve.com] Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 4:07 PM To: INTERNET:bdnow@envirolink.org; Kate Clarke Subject: women running with farms ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4DFF.A7D4E860 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiwWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v 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AA00/TcAAMht ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4DFF.A7D4E860-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 1 18:47:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19230 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:47:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA24474; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:39:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (ecpport2.ecopost.com.au [203.28.64.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23915 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:36:10 -0500 (EST) From: poss@midcoast.com.au Received: from poss (kmidc67-87.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.87]) by ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA10331 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:37:15 +1100 Message-Id: <199902012337.KAA10331@ecpport2.midcoast.com.au> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:35:15 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Unsubscribe Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 74 Dear Allan, Could I 'unsubscribe bdnow' for a while please. sincerely Alan Johnstone From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 02:37:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA24803 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA14086; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.152]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA13903 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:24:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from eco1 ([195.44.5.96]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:26:14 +0000 From: "Colin Shaw" Organization: MidNet To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:27:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Unsubscribe Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Message-ID: <0fdee1426070229BISHOP@cwcom.net> Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 75 Could someone unsubscribe me please -------------------------------------------------- See http://www.organic.mcmail.com/ THE UK organic gardening web site. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 07:35:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26493 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:35:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA29998; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:27:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA29853 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:25:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr1-67-211.intrepid.net [206.102.67.211]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA30876 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:26:49 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:10:19 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: Please Save! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 76 to UNSUBSCRIBE from BD NOW!, send 'unsubscribe bdnow' in the BODY of a message to listproc@envirolink.org (no SUBJECT is necessary =========================================================================== If you have any questions, contact the Listmaster, Allan Balliett, at bdnow@igg.com Thank You! -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 07:58:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26690 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:58:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01817; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:50:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01662 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:48:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr1-67-211.intrepid.net [206.102.67.211]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01012 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:49:42 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:50:05 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Harvey Lisle, Anne Wigmore, Raw Food, & Biodynamics Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 77 At the John Jeavons workshop this weekend in Chambersburg, PA, I was fortunate enough to run into Michael Mahroney of Long Island. For the past 7 years, Michael has been making wheatgrass juice in flats that are 50 percent BD compost. He's a vibrant picture of health, brite-eyed and good natured, as well as intelligent and witty. It really seemed evident that 'the Forces' were with him. Michael draws the principles and how-to of what he does from the books of Anne Wigmore ("The Wheatgrass Book" etc). A surprising piece of information that he passed on to me: biodynamic pioneer and former BDA boardmember Harvey Lisle worked with Anne Wigmore years ago and did all of the quality testing of her books and what-not. (Harvey would work with chromatography and dowsing, among other techniques.) Stranger still for me, I found out yesterday that macrobiotic mainstay at Claymont and former BD Now! member, Jerry Collette, actually was a student of Anne's several decades ago. (Jerry's sister married into the Kushi family, in case you're wondering why a man would move from the camp of 'everything raw' to the camp 'everything cooked' (at Kushi Jouse they even steam APPLES before eating them :-) ) If you've ever met Harvey Lisle, you know what I mean by brite-eyed, good natured, radiant health. (Harvey is over 80.) If you've been working with any aspect of sprouts,mini or micro greens, wheatgrass or rawfoods, I'd like to hear from you on the list. Thanks, -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 08:01:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA26708 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:01:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01971; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:53:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01831 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:50:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr1-67-211.intrepid.net [206.102.67.211]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01365 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:52:00 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:52:20 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: Please: No Formatted Messages / No Attachments!! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 78 Dear BD Now! Member: BD Now! is circulated to every continent and to an awful lot of countries. Phone service, internet service and the age and condition of equipment vary greatly in this worldwide natural agriculture community. Formatted email was developed for business office intranets, where it "distracts from distraction by distracting." Formatted messages are not supported by all email readers, are 'expensive' to download and will, in fact, cause some email readers to hang (including the one in this office!). Please turn formatting OFF on your YANKEE-style email tool when sending email to BD Now!, or any other Ag list. Attachments are more of the same. Different internet service providers handle attacments differently. I sent a 200k attachment to a person in the mid-west last week; the attachment took me about 2minutes to upload, it took them TWENTY MINUTES to download!! Multiply this discrepency across the 300+ members of BD NOW! and you can see how un-ecological attachments are. Please don't send attachments to BD Now!, send URL's. If you are not in a position to post lengthy information to the WWW, contact me, and, if the information is of interest to the list, I'll make it available through the BD Now! pages. (Any messages under 32k are welcomed on the list.) If you have any questions about this, please contact me at bdnow@igg.com or at (304) 876-2373. Thanks -Allan Balliett moderator, BD Now! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 12:18:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02204 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:18:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA15582; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:10:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14207 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:05:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp23.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.123]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA15250 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:04:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001d01be4ece$0810c9a0$774b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle, Anne Wigmore, Raw Food, & Biodynamics Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:03:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 79 Hi Allan! Are there any pearls of wisdom that you can share with us about the conference you attended? I am trying to remember the connection between the Jeavons (biointensive gardening/farming) and the biodynamic methods...and the differences too. Wasn't there some mention on this awhile back? Could you elaborate on this a bit? Thanks much.... Julie PS - I became very interested in wheatgrass a few years ago, and at that time bought a few books on the subject, including the Ann Wigmore book. There is another little book that's nice... "Wheatgrass Juice, Gift of Nature or The Natural High" by Betsey Russell Manning (mostly about how wheatgrass protects people/animals from radiation). This one aroused my curiosity mostly because the first time I tried it at a juicebar in Madison, I walked around with a wheatgrass high for about an hour...Nothing like the fragrance/taste of summer, powerfully healthy & invigorating, with a friendly little mood-enhancement to boot! (But the juicers that are required to properly process the stuff are really expensive!!) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 17:24:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09676 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05288; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:16:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05081 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:15:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr2-66-159.intrepid.net [206.102.66.159]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27030 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:16:41 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:16:55 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: re:Wheat Grass Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 >>If you've been working with any aspect of sprouts,mini or micro greens, >>wheatgrass or rawfoods, I'd like to hear from you on the list. >> >>Thanks, >> >>-Allan Balliett >>igg@igg.com >> >I've been sprouting for about half a year now. Experimenting mostly. I have >read Ann Wigmore's book on sprouting, and of coarse it has a section on >wheatgrass. My most recent tray of wheat seeds were soaked over-night in >water that I stirred just like you would BD500-501, but with rock dust in >the water. Then, the first thing I sprinkle on the seed is some rock dust >before adding moist soil that I collected from my veggie garden this past >fall. > > After harvesting the grass, I place the "mats" in a container with worms >(red wigglers) and sprinkle rock dust between layers. The intention is to >use this after it is completed to recycle for growing more wheatgrass. >Michael Schmidt was kind enough to let me have samples of cow manure from >his BD farm. I added it to my worm culture. > >I have also been sprouting alfalfa, sunflower seeds (great breakfast), >pinto beans, chick peas, and growing barley grass. All are soaked in the >above described water. > >I don't know yet if any of this is of benefit, and am keeping my eyes open >for methods to measure results. > >Can anyone comment on my rock-dust stirring? >If I understand what I read in Secrets of then Soil; chapter discussing >Patrick Flanigan's work on Vortex's effect on particles, I am trying to >make "colloidal" minerals, and therefor more available to me through the >wheatgrass. > > >Murray Henderson - Kitchener, Ontario, Canada > > > > > Murray Henderson - An Independent Representative for Primerica Financial Services See my home on the Web at: http://www.easynet.ca/~mhenderson From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 18:05:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10852 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:05:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA11920; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11654 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:56:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03393 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:58:10 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:55:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Cosmic Pipes, BD Stirring Tank, Sonic Spray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 Hi igg. Thanks for all of the good advice. I didn't have time to reply last week. You mentioned a cosmic pipe that used a drawing of a printed circuit, a photo of an Aztec crystal skull and a bobby pin. I think SECRETS OF THE SOIL said that too. I'd sure like to know the details of how that is put in the pipe. You said prayer may work just as well as any other subtle energy method. Do you know how prayer can be tested scientifically by us email subscribers? I don't have faith that my prayers would work as well as many people's prayers. Do I have to bolster my faith? Have you seen www.Neil.Slade.net? He talks about research that shows benefits of collective prayer. I was wondering if subscribers might like to ask other subscribers for prayers on a particular concern maybe at a particular time. Art Bell seemed to get very good results with that for bringing rain to needy areas, etc. What I'd like others to help me pray for at 6 pm Feb. 6 or any time is clarity on how to be successful with our organic farming this year. Have you seen any of these sites on ormus elements? http://209.17.143.141/ormus/ORMUS/ormus2.htm, http://www.u.arizona.edu/~hameroff/penrose1.html, http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/whatisit.htm They say the ormus elements are responsible for biological growth and nerve functions, that they are superconducting and paramagnetic. One of the sites says how to separate ormus elements from others, but then they have to be protected from sunlight, etc. I thought it might be better to leave them in their source material. Volcanic rock and limestone are supposed to have a lot of ormus. So I'm thinking of stirring the ground rockdust in water like a BD prep, stirring and reversing, and applying it to the soil. Do you know anything about that? The chapter of SECRETS OF THE SOIL on Flanagan's studies said the best shape for stirring is ovoid with a width to length ratio of 1 to the sq. rt. of 2, i.e. 1 to 1.414. That produces the strongest vortex. Does anyone use an ovoid spray tank? Joe and I are thinking of making one of fiberglass. I also tho't it might be fine to just cut a spherical tank in half and add about a foot or so long cylindrical midsection. Joe's looking to find a spherical tank. But I suppose a cylindrical tank might be good enuf. What do you think? We're thinking of using mechanical stirring for the BD preps, etc. The book said other farmers do that. Do you think that works as well as stirring by hand? Joe tho't of hooking several pumps together on the PTO and having a hose from each one going into the tank. At the end of the hose would be a tee and a valve to make the water flow one way, then the other. I don't know how we'd control the valve yet. We assume that this would create a vortex in the tank as quickly as would a mechanical stirring device and that the reversing of the flow to make chaos would be easier. He was thinking of using about 1 and a half inch diameter hose and tees, maybe four of them in all. That'd give quite a bit of cross-sectional area, like a paddle would. Would you or anyone else have experience along these lines? The book also talked about "singing to clay" or something like that. It mentioned a farmer who would sing a note into a bucket or barrel while stirring and reversing water before applying to soil or crops, I think. Do you know if that's helpful? And how the note is determined? You said the sonic bloom type of spraying isn't needed bekuz the stomata of the leaves are open anyway in the mornings [and evenings?]. But the book implied that the high pitch sounds are helpful to the mitochondria of the plant cells where energy is made. It said the mitochondria are tuned to about 25 cycles per second and that bird song of about 5000 cps are a harmonic of that. Also, if birdsong in the mornings and evenings are what open the stomata, a lot of our ground is not very near to trees where birds usually sit, so we tho't we might need to use the high pitch anyway. Or do the stomata stay open then even without the birdsongs? And is there a cheap source of the gibberillin that you know of? Are there plants that have it in concentrated form, or whatever? lloyd kinder" From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 18:06:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10867 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:06:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA12172; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:58:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11655 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:56:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03409 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:58:15 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:58:31 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: re: Cosmic Pipes, BD Stirring Tank, Sonic Spray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 82 Dear Lloyd - I'm hoping to post a previously unavailable address by Ehrinfried Pfeiffer to this list later today. I think that if you will "listen" to what he has to say, many of the points you have raised in your message today may become more clear. Thanks for your interest in dynamics, by the way. -Allan Balliett moderator, BD Now! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 18:26:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11204 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:26:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16042; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:18:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15849 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07618 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:18:49 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001d01be4ece$0810c9a0$774b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:19:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle, Anne Wigmore, Raw Food, & Biodynamics Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 83 >Hi Allan! > >Are there any pearls of wisdom that you can share with us about the >conference you attended? I am trying to remember the connection between the >Jeavons (biointensive gardening/farming) and the biodynamic methods...and >the differences too. Wasn't there some mention on this awhile back? Could >you elaborate on this a bit? Julie - Alan Chadwick taught biodynamics at Santa Cruz and a few other gardens in the 70's. Although he had worked with Rudolf Steiner as a child, the milieu at Santa Cruz (a Univeristy which contained prominent faculty members who were demonstrably hostile to even the IDEA of non-chemical farming) made it prudent to trim back the tools he would use to invoke fertility there. (He did not use the preps in America, but he did discuss them in private with some of his students.) His immense knowledge of horticulture, coupled with a thorough understanding of composting and cultivation methods, allowed him to create a truly remarkable abundance ("too much zucchini") on previously 'barren' soil. In a short period of time he was able to attract a legion of students. This provided him with the most magickal portion of his gardener's toolkit: an inexhaustible supply of well-educated and highly motivated young workers. John Jeavons was working for the World Bank back then, working to solve world hunger problems. He was drawn to see the 'Chadwick miracle,' and spent a day asking questions of AC. What he came away with was the double-digging method, French market gardening intensive planting and tight, multi-cropping, rotation schemes, and vegan composting methods. As I understand it, John has spent a lot of time doing work on himself with Zen meditation and what not, but it was with the pragmatically materialistic mind of a UN worker that John lifted the practical aspects of the "Chadwick method" and left behind Chadwick's profound spiritual testimony. In this 'objectivism,' which continues to be a standard of 'Grow Biointensive' (as the Jeavon's method is currently called), there is really only room for things that can be counted, weighed or measured. For this reason, only the more pragmatic aspects of biodynamics as it was passed through Alan Chadwick have been used in "Grow Biointensive" (such as equisetum tea). A statistician by training, and a documentarian by temperment, John has spent the better part of the last century honing the data in the 'master charts' contained in his monumentally "best-selling" book "How to Grow More Vegetables." Anyone who is growing a garden and expecting to produce a certain amount of food within a certain time and financial budget will do well to refer to these tables - - they give you everything from expected viability of seed in a given crop to how closely your can plant out for maximum effeciency (of space, water and fertility). John and Cynthia Jeavons have a plan. They are out to save the world. They have a method of actually accomplishing this, it's 'Grow Biointensive.' If they can get more people to actually 'listen' with their rational minds, they really do have a method of horticulture where a relatively unskilled individual can produce way more food than he himself needs to survive and he can also produce the fertility needed to allow the growing of more food in those beds. According to John (and I think we all know that this is true) topsoil is running out in the world: with China entering as a competitor on the world food market, in less than two years the US will most likely find that it can no longer buy as much food from other countries as we need to survive. About then, most everything will hit the wall. Bill Mollison has said that if something is worth doing, it's worth getting 2000 other hands to do also. John Jeavons has been teaching for a long, long time. He's made A LOT of converts during that period. There are a lot of hands out there growing more vegetables with this method. One thing he stresses: if you plan to survive the coming hard-times because you know how to grow your own food, you better start teaching as many people as possible how to grow THEIR own food because, as you've probably already realized, even if you do know how to grow your own food, when other people are hungry, they are probably going to take your harvest. You can find out more about John Jeavons and his non-profit, Ecology Action, at http://www.countrylife.net/ecoaction/index.html John and Cynthia Jeavons have been very generous to me and my recent community outreach projects. By no means do I intend to diminish the value of their work or insights by any remarks I make here. I think that an appropriate response to your question requires for me to say that the biointensive method is well within the parameters of one of the possible approaches to biodynamics. However, the biodynamic system is substantially more systematic, more organized and more complete than the biointensive method. (For starters, I'm thinking of the preps and herb teas here.) The biointensive method would fit in toto in the watchpocket of Bruce Blevin's dress suit of biodynamic/horticultural knowledge. Just the same, I already know that "How to Grow More Vegetables" is in his library (and right now, in the final phases of planning for 1999, I'll be those 'master tables' of JJ's are right on his desk top! :-) Sorry I don't have more time for this Julie, I hope this helps. -Allan Balliett (Hey, do you want to learn how to double dig???) > >PS - I became very interested in wheatgrass a few years ago, and at that >time bought a few books on the subject, including the Ann Wigmore book. >There is another little book that's nice... "Wheatgrass Juice, Gift of >Nature or The Natural High" by Betsey Russell Manning (mostly about how >wheatgrass protects people/animals from radiation). This one aroused my >curiosity mostly because the first time I tried it at a juicebar in Madison, >I walked around with a wheatgrass high for about an hour...Nothing like the >fragrance/taste of summer, powerfully healthy & invigorating, with a >friendly little mood-enhancement to boot! (But the juicers that are required >to properly process the stuff are really expensive!!) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 2 18:28:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11234 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:28:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16537; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:21:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16246 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:20:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.211] (pm3mbr2-66-137.intrepid.net [206.102.66.137]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA08222 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:21:38 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001d01be4ece$0810c9a0$774b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:22:03 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle, Anne Wigmore, Raw Food, & Biodynamics Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 > >PS - I became very interested in wheatgrass a few years ago, and at that >time bought a few books on the subject, including the Ann Wigmore book. >There is another little book that's nice... "Wheatgrass Juice, Gift of >Nature or The Natural High" by Betsey Russell Manning (mostly about how >wheatgrass protects people/animals from radiation). This one aroused my >curiosity mostly because the first time I tried it at a juicebar in Madison, >I walked around with a wheatgrass high for about an hour...Nothing like the >fragrance/taste of summer, powerfully healthy & invigorating, with a >friendly little mood-enhancement to boot! (But the juicers that are required >to properly process the stuff are really expensive!!) Just thought that I'd point out that there are south american made corona-style wheatgrass juicers that sell for <$50. This is an easy expense to justify because the same 'press' can be used to expell VALERIAN juice!!! Most healthfood stores can order these handcranked wheatgrass juicers. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 06:19:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA20356 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:19:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA06002; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:07:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA05632 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:05:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.163] (pm3mbr2-66-165.intrepid.net [206.102.66.165]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA08065 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:06:37 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:07:02 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Paramagetism and Tree, etc Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 85 Project Treelite: Measuring The Profound Effect of Trees Charge Envelope Connecting To The Charge Envelope Around Human Glands During Intense Emotion.. Here we place Phil Callahan's design biological capacitance probe (Hemp Fibres dipped in sweat or sea salt mineral ), moisened under an old oak tree on a strong earth magnetic line. (No 60cycle power poles near). We input to via high impedance scope probe to Interactive Visual Brainwave Analayzer (IBVA) wireless telemetry, to Mac computer. We landscape spectrum analyze the change in charge envelope harmonic content over time, as a meditator strongly emotionally coupled to the tree, does a "zero point breath".. continued at: http://www.danwinter.com/projtreelite/TREELITE.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 09:03:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22504 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:03:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA18903; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18751 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:54:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr1-67-194.intrepid.net [206.102.67.194]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28584 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:23 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:50:20 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: NE SA Working Group vs Terminator Gene Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 86 TERMINATOR GENE THE NORTHEAST SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE WORKING GROUP P.O. Box 608, Belchertown, MA; Ph: 413-323-4531; Fax: 413-323-9594 PRESS RELEASE Northeast Sustainable Agriculture Working Group (NESAWG) members officially condemned the use of public funds by USDA for the development and patenting of the "terminator technology," at its Annual Meeting on December 12. Members noted the profound global implications of this technology on agriculture, biodiversity, and food security, as well as the national implications of using U.S. tax dollars on the development and licensing of a technology that will solely benefit a private corporation, while causing hardship to small farmers around the world. The terminator technology creates plants whose seeds will not produce new plants the following year. "The "terminator" seed-sterilizing technology threatens to eliminate the age-old right of farmers to save seed from their harvest, jeopardizing the food security of 1.4 billion people - including resource poor farmers in the south - who depend on farm-saved seed," noted Hope Shand of Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI), an organization actively working against this technology. "Both the patent and the technology should be rejected on the basis of public morality," noted NESAWG member Elizabeth Henderson of NOFA-NY. "Farmers everywhere must have the right to save seed and develop locally-adapted strains of a plant variety." "In addition to human rights concerns, there are serious biosafety concerns with this technology," Henderson added. "There is the possibility that the sterility trait of this seed could infect open-pollinated crops growing nearby. Because this technology is largely untested, this is an important concern." In its resolution, NESAWG members demanded that USDA, as patent-holder,permanently refrain from licensing any use of the patent. More information about details of the "terminator technology" is available from the Rural Advancement Foundation International at: www.rafi.org. The Northeast Sustainable Agriculture Working Group (NESAWG) is a broad network of groups in the Northeast United States committed to building more sustainable and just regional food and agriculture systems. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MOFFA is a non-profit, educational organization whose mission is to bring togther the interests of growers, consumers and retailers in Maryland to further the cause of more ecological farming practices and product distribution. Volunteers perform all work within the organization. We use membership dues to publish and distribute this newsletter, to sponsor workshops, field days, and related activities. SUPPORT MOFFA We are working to develop more sustainable agriculture in Maryland through * consumer education * grower education * organic certification * state and federal policies * member networking $30 membership : voting rights quarterly newsletter, technical services. $15 membership: quarterly newsletter Make checks payable to MOFFA and return to MOFFA c/o Jack Gurley, 16813 Yeoho Rd, Sparks, MD 21152. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 09:04:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22512 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA18992; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18760 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:54:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr1-67-194.intrepid.net [206.102.67.194]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28594 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:27 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:51:38 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Transgenic Seed Use on the Rise Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 87 TRANSGENIC SEEDS According to two articles in the January 1999 Farm Chemicals, planting of transgenic seeds will make another increase in '99. A survey sent to ag dealers in '98 shows that 85% of dealers are expected to sell enhanced seed by 2000, and a 50% increase is expected by 2001. Two of the most common enhancements include Roundup Ready genes, and transgenic Bt. Seeds include corn, cotton, potatoes, soybeans, and others. There are currently 50.5 million acres planted to transgenic crops in the US, amounting to 74% of the worldwide acreage of transgenic seeds. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MOFFA is a non-profit, educational organization whose mission is to bring togther the interests of growers, consumers and retailers in Maryland to further the cause of more ecological farming practices and product distribution. Volunteers perform all work within the organization. We use membership dues to publish and distribute this newsletter, to sponsor workshops, field days, and related activities. SUPPORT MOFFA We are working to develop more sustainable agriculture in Maryland through * consumer education * grower education * organic certification * state and federal policies * member networking $30 membership : voting rights quarterly newsletter, technical services. $15 membership: quarterly newsletter Make checks payable to MOFFA and return to MOFFA c/o Jack Gurley, 16813 Yeoho Rd, Sparks, MD 21152. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 09:04:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22520 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:04:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA19044; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:56:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18770 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:54:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr1-67-194.intrepid.net [206.102.67.194]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28605 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:31 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: OFMA GE Policy Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 88 GENETICALLY ENGINEERED SEED POLICY >From the Organic Farmers Marketing Association Communication/Telecommunication Committee Co-chairs: Cecilia Bowman, cvof@iquest.net, Eric Kindberg, erorganic@aol.com Website: www.iquest.net/ofma/ December 4, 1998 After due consideration the Board of Directors of the Organic Farmers Marketing Association has determined the following: The Organic Farmers Marketing Association calls for a complete prohibition on the use of Genetically Engineered plants, seeds, microbials, animals and derivatives from GE products in certified organic farm food and fiber production. The Organic Farmers Marketing Association calls for a complete prohibition on the use of Genetically Engineered ingredients, processing aids, enzymes, food additives and derivatives from GE products in certified organic handling operation (processing, packaging or storing) of foods and fibers labeled and sold as "organically produced." Genetically Engineered" means made with techniques that alter the molecular or cell biology of an organism by means that are not possible under natural conditions of processes. Genetic engineering includes recombinant DNA and RNA techniques, cell fusion, micro and macro encapsulation, gene deletion and doubling, introducing a foreign gene, and changing the positions of genes. It shall not include breeding, conjugation, fermentation, hybridization, in-vitro fertilization and tissue culture. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ MOFFA is a non-profit, educational organization whose mission is to bring togther the interests of growers, consumers and retailers in Maryland to further the cause of more ecological farming practices and product distribution. Volunteers perform all work within the organization. We use membership dues to publish and distribute this newsletter, to sponsor workshops, field days, and related activities. SUPPORT MOFFA We are working to develop more sustainable agriculture in Maryland through * consumer education * grower education * organic certification * state and federal policies * member networking $30 membership : voting rights quarterly newsletter, technical services. $15 membership: quarterly newsletter Make checks payable to MOFFA and return to MOFFA c/o Jack Gurley, 16813 Yeoho Rd, Sparks, MD 21152. =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 11:40:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26729 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:40:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17929; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:30:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.153]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17351 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:27:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.18.82]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:29:24 +0000 Message-ID: <36B876A8.3147@cwcom.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:17:44 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 My wife was enthusiastic about sprouting earlier this year (less so now that winter is upon us) - all the usual seeds, beans etc - but we've not yet tried wheatgrass. Anne Wigmore's book was so helpful that I tried to call up her website(s): a couple of search items referred only to health resorts, but I was unable to raise the Anne Wigmore Institute - kept getting weird error messages including, on one occasion, This Site is Forbidden! What has she done to annoy Bill Gates so ? Is it just my server (Cable & Wireless) or have other subscribers also had problems ? Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:03:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27297 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:03:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA22450; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:54:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA22294 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr4-150-20.intrepid.net [209.190.150.20]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA30802 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:54:52 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:54:16 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 From Debbie Ortman: >>I recently learned that Rob Johnston of Johnny's Seeds is considering >>selllng genetically modified seeds. The escape of these seeds into the >>environment could have potentially devastating consequences. I urge you >>to write to him immediately to express your feelings. I am BCCing this >>to most everyone on my list (more than 100 people and list serves) and >>recommend you do the same. I personally intend to boycott their company >>until I hear of a change in policy. The Carolina Farm Stewardship >>Association recently circulated a petition critical of Johnny's policy >>at their recent conference and 106 farmers signed it, including Elliot >>Coleman. You can email Johnny's: >>or fax them: 1-800-437-4299 >>or write to: >> >>Rob Johnston, Jr. >>Johnny's Selected Seeds >>Foss Hill Rd. >>Albion, ME 04910 >> Then David Young said: >Before anyone reacts, please see Johnny's current catalog. Rob only says >that they are maintaining the stance of keeping an open mind in regards to >the issue of genetically-engineered seeds. Nowhere does he state that they >are considering selling the seeds. Please find out the issue from the >source before launching a campaign that could have devastating effects on a >company that has served many sustainable growers well for many years. > >I'm sure that Rob will gladly entertain feedback and personal opinions, >especially when voiced intelligently and not reactionarily. If folks would >have looked personally at the catalog before jumping on the bandwagon, then >perhaps such a strong and unnecessary reaction could have been avoided. To >immediately boycott a very community-oriented company without engaging in >dialogue is close to eco-facism, in my opinion. The issue is actually old >news, and was circulated a couple of months ago anyway. This is the type of >reaction that polarizes people and, to many who work day-to-day in >agriculture, is laughable. > >David Young > > >>David - >> >>Rob Johnston has made his response to the questions about Johnny's policy. He >>remained very open to the possibility that Johnny's will carry genetically >>engineered seed in the future. In fact, in my perception, he was rather >>smug about his stance. (If Rob's response has not been through this list, I >>can post it here.) That's the part that scares me: smug people who don't >>really perceive why many of us are concerned about genetically-engineered >>seeds. Furthermore, Rob had this additional opportunity to assure us that >>Johnny's would NEVER carry GE seed, but he did not take this opportunity to >>make an explicit statement. >> >>For me, the intelligent stance is ZERO TOLERANCE for GENETICALLY-ENGINEERED >>SEEDS. Rob has crossed over that line and chosen to stay on the 'pragmatic' >>side of the fence when asked to reconsider his 'open-mindedness.' >> >>I'm a professional grower myself. I've purchased from Johnny's for over 10 >>years. I've always considered them one of the shining lights in seed supply >>for organic growers. (However, not all of their seed is organic.) As I have >>informed them, as long as there is any possibility of genetically-altered >>seeds being 'accidentally' mixed with my organic seeds on the supply end, I >>cannot purchase from them. I will not buy from them this year either, >>unless they stand back from this 'open minded' view of >>genetically-engineered seeds. >> >>IMHO Better to be strident than sorry. >> >>I wholeheartedly support the boycott and encourage anyone concerned about >>the safety of our food supply to do so. Make a point of not purchasing from >>growers who support Johnny's also: better tell your growers early because >>many will just assume they can rely on people like Johnny's to 'do the >>right thing' when it comes to food purity. Unfortunately, such complacency >>is not practical in this case. >> >> >> >>-Allan Balliett >>Biodynamics NOW! >>bdnow@igg.com And last night I received this unexpected note from Mr. Johnston: >Dear Mr. Balliett, > Someone forwarded me your e-letter to David Young. I have questions >for you. > Firstly, what do you find smug in my response? > Secondly, what seed suppliers pass your muster? > Thirdly, as a condition for purchase, will you insist that your seed >supplier only obtain seeds from sources that do not handle any GE seeds? > I look forward to your reply. >Truly yours, >Rob Johnston, Jr. >-- >Robert L. Johnston, Jr. >Chairman >Johnny's Selected Seeds (http://www.johnnyseeds.com) > Post: RD 1 Box 2580, Albion, Maine 04910 USA > Fax: 1.207.437.2422 (alternate= 1.207.437.2165) > Telephone: 1.207.437.9294 Allan here again: Just prior to the note above, I received information from 'well placed sources inside the seed industry' that Rob Johnston is softpedalling GE because he has no control over his seeds at the source; inevitably, at some point in the near future, many of the varities he carries will ONLY be available to him from GE sources. I think I'm safe in my assumption that I'm not the only eco-warrior on this list. I don't think this is a time to be passive. I think, if nothing else, we need to take strong positive action and make strong endorsements for those companies that refuse to carry GE. At the same time, as organic growers and organic eaters and seekers of higher levels of human development through working with the forces of Nature, we need to let everyone we work with and everyone we source from that company's like Johnny's, who appear to be within the organic movement, actually have no higher vision and are open to distributing products that are potentionally damaging to our land, ourselves, and the natural diversity that makes remediation of man's misadventures practical and affordable. Materialistic people seem to be willing to do ANYTHING for money. In fact, the ultimate ethical justification for any sort of action against mankind, nature, or our common future currently seems to be nothing more than "Did you make a few bucks?" If we speak loudly enough now, before GE gets FIRMLY established, we may be able to convince some of the marginal players, like Johnny's, to not become customers of the muliti-national's Frankenseed programs because it will not be profitable for them in the short-run. I'm asking you to speak up, here on the list, or by writing to Rob Johnston or by helping BD Now! assemble the definitive 'natural' seed source list for posting at www.igg.com/bdnow. (If companies do not have a public position on GE, we need to ask them what their policy is.) Thanks -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:15:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27669 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:15:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA24597; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:06:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24094 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:03:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr4-150-20.intrepid.net [209.190.150.20]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA32684 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:04:15 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:04:36 -0500 To: BDNOW@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id MAA24101 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 Here's an un-updated list from Crissy Bowman of OFMA of potentially Organic open-pollinated seed . We can use it as a starting point. (yes, this list needs proof-reading, some culling, and some preening...anyone up for that??) ABUNDANT LIFE. Membership on a sliding scale rate of $5 to $15 per year. Abundant Life Seed Foundation, P.O. Box 772, Port Townsend, Washington 98368. AGE-OLD GARDEN SUPPLY. Natural gardening Products for your organic garden. PO. Box 1556, Boulder, Colorado 80306. AMES’ ORCHARD & NURSERY. R 5, Box 194, Fayetteville, Arkansas 72701. ARBICO. Sustainable Environmental Alternatives for Organic Growers. PO. Box 4247 CRB. Tucson, Arizona 85738-1247. 602-825-9785 or 800-827-2847. In Canada: MANBICO. Box 22. Group 15 RRIC, Winnipeg. Manitoba, Canada R3C 2E4. 204 339-9488, 800-665-2494. BEAR CREEK NURSERY. PO. Box 411, Bear Creek Road. Northport, Washington 991S7. BOZEMAN BIO-TECH. 1612 Gold Avenue, PO. Box 3146. Bozeman. Montana 59772. Products for insect protection. W. ATLEE BURPEE CO. 300 Park Ave., Warminster, Pennsylvania 18991. Phone 215-674-4915. 80s888-1447. BUTTERBROOKE FARMS coo Tom Butterworth. 78 Barry Road, Oxford. Connecticut 06483. SASE required for information. CORNS. Contact Carl L and Karen D Barnes, Route 1, Box 32. Turpin, Oklahoma 13950. $1.00 for price list and information letter. DOWN ON THE FARM SEED. P.O. Box 184. Hirarn. Ohio 44234 ECO SOURCE. PO. B-ox I656, Sebastopol, California 9S473. FEDCO SEEDS. Unued seeds, orgasmic. 52 Mayflower Hil Drive. Waterville, Maine 04901. HENRY FIELD’S-SEED & NURSERY CO. s l 5 North Burnett. Shenandoah, Iowa 51602. I.P.M. LABORATORIES, INC. P.O. Box 300, Locke, NY 13092-0300. 315-497-3129, Biological Pest Management INDIANA BOTANIC GARDENS. RO. Box 5, Hammond Indiana 46325. 219-947- 4040. THE INVISIBLE GARDENERS. 29169 Heathercliff Road, #216-408. Malibu, California 90265-4146. 213-457-6658. JACKSON & PERKINS. PO Box 1028. Medford. Oregon 97501. 8062924769. 1. W. JUNG QUALITY SEED COMPANY. 335 South High Street, Randolph, Wisconsin S3957. AM LEONARD, INC. PO. Box 816, Pique Ohio 45356-0816. Catalog $1.00. LIBERTY SEED COMPANY. PO. Box 806, New Philadelphia, Ohio 44663. 800-541-6022. LYING OFF THE LAND. P.O. Box 2131, Melbourne, Florida 3290Z-2131. A Subtropic Newsletter with Seed Exchange. LIVING TREE CENTER. P.O. Box 10082, Berkeley, California 94709 Historic apple. and pear trees, and other fruit trees and plants. 510-420-1440. MARKET FARM IMPLEMENT. Specializing in Vegetable Crop Machinery. RD 2, Box 206, Friedens, Pennsylvania 15541. McCLURE & ZIMMERMAN. Quality Flowerbulb Brokers. 108 West Winnebago, P.O. Box 368. Friesland, Wisconsin :53935. 414-326-4220. , . -, . .. . . at - . MILLER NURSERIES. Planting guide & catalog free. West Lake Road, Canandaigua New York 14424. NATIVE AMERICAN SEED. 3400 Long Prairie Road. Flower Mound; Texas 75028. 214-539-0534. NATIVE SEEDS/SEARCH. 2509 North Campbell Avenue #325. Tucson. Arizona PLANT FINDERS OF AMERICA. 532 Beau--Mont Ct. Fort Wright, Kentucky 41011. Free infomration Plants of the Southwest 18]2 Second 9t Santa Pe, New Mexico 87S01. Cab P°WELL G+RDENS /Ensas Cit~Z-s got cal Cie • Has many flo ver seed SouneeS R I 816 566 2213ngsville. Missourj 64061 PRAtRI} MOON NURSERY. Price S2.00. t07 43S2 1362163- Winona~ .MI~n RINGER- 99S9 Valley View Road, Eden Prurie MinneSotaNN346358~.goo-654-1o47. C SPBERRY NURSERy & RESouRcE OG. 19060 Manning Trail N. Mad 6°ln2s43 Cr°iv7 Minnesota 55047 972I ROCKRSH GAP HEALTH PRODUCTS. P.O Box 348. Ivy, Virginia 2294S. Hard-to-find ealth & beauty products. 800-768-7587. RONNIGERiS SEED POTATOES. Star Route. Moyie Spnngs, Idaho 83845. Prepsud or ders must be received no later than May I. Write catalog, S2.00 refundable. RENCE NURSERIES. Northern Cli yate Fruit and Nul TreeS RD 2 Po SAVE OUR ECO-SYSTEItfS (SOS). 407 Blair Boulevard. Eugene, Oregon 97402. EzSogy products and gifts. SEED S~VERS }XCI[~NGE Route 3, Box 239 Decorab~k~wa421ol.Free-~nation. SEIDS B>, Idabo City Stage.’ Boi#. Idaho 706* alog S3.00. - ~- j _ . . . . SEEDS OF C+GE 1364 Rufina˘Circle #5 Sof 438-8o8o ev MeXicO - 87504 Ph. S c T 1t 2( V. de Hc pk Ro; 800 WC Sou 474 SHEPHERD’S GARDEN SEEDS. 30 Iren Street, Torrington. Connecticut 0679( 203482-3638. SINDELAR SEEDS. Route 1. Box 109-C Algonaf Iowa 50SI I or their distributors: Bin Soils, R 3, Box 197A, Ogden lowa 50212 or Su per Gro of lowa, P.O. Box l26. Aplington. low 50604. D SONOMA ANTIOUE APPLE NURSER 439S Westside Road, Healdsburg, Cslifomi. asaR ,_ . ._. . SOURCEPOINT ORGANIC SEEDS. 409’ M Road, Paonia, Colorado 81428. CataloE S2.50. ^ 0 SOUTHERN EXPOSURE SEED EX CHANGE. P.O. Box l58. North Garden. Vir ginia 22959. Catalog S3.00. STOKES SEEDS, INC. Box 548, Buffalo New York 14240. Phone 41S6884300. SUNSHINE ORGANIC GARDENS RE SOURCE CENTERZ P.O. Box 5161, Wood land Park, Co!orado 80866. SYNERGY SEEDS. P.O. Box 323, Orleans Califomia 95556. THOMPSON & MORGAN. P.O. Box 1308 lackson. New Jersey 08527. Phon. 201 -363-2225. VERMONT BEAN SEED COMPANY. Garden Lane, Fair HavelL Vennont 05743. WAYSIDE GARDENS. I Garden Lane Hodges. Souffi Carolina 29695-0001. The Complete Garden Catalog. WILDSEED FARMS, INC. 1101 Campo Rosa Road, P.O. Box 308. Eagle Lalu Texas 77434 806848-0078. WORM’S WAY GARDEN SUPPLY. 3151 South Highway 446. Bloomington, Indiana 4740I-9111. Seymour’ 8 Selected Seeds Dept 41, PO Box 1346 Sussex, VA 23884-0346 Vermont Bean Seed co. 71 Garden Ln; Fair Haven, VT 05743 Park Seed co. Cokesbury Rd. PO Box 46 Greenwood, SC 29648-0046 (800)845-3369 Burpee Seed Company PO Box 5114 Warminster, PA 18974-4818 (800)888-1447 Abundant Life Seed Foundation PO Box 772 Port Townsend, WA- 98368 (206)385-5660 De Giorvi Seed co 6011 N St. Omaha, NE 68117 (402)731-3901 Garden City Seeds 1324 Red Crow Rd. Victor, MT 59875 (406)961-4837 Nichols Garden Nursery 1190 N. Pacific Highway Albany, OR 97321 (503)-928-9280 Ronniger’s Seed Potatoes Star Route 80 Moyie Springs, ID 83845 Shepard’s Garden Seeds 30 Irene St. Torrinqton, CT 06793 (408)335-6910 Tomato Growers,Supply PO Box 2237 (813)7681119 Worm’s Way 3151 S. Highway 446 Bloomington, IS 47401 (800)274-9676 Brittingham Plant Farms Dept OG25 - PO Box 2538 n-37 Salisbury, MD 21802 t (410)749-5153 1 - Totally Tomatoes Dept 22, PO Box 1626 Augusta, GA 30903 R.H. Shunway Seedsman PO Box 1-NC Graniteville SC 29829 (803)663-977I Peaceable Kingdom School PO Box 2209 Grass Valley, CA 95945 (916)272-47-69 Bountiful Gardens 18001 Shafer Ranch Rd Willits, CA 95490 (707)459-6410 The Cooks Garden PO Box 53528 Londonderry, VT 05148 (802)824-3400 Filaree Productions RR 2 Box 162 Okanogan, WA 98840 (509)422-6940 Johnny’s Selected Seeds 310 Foss Hill Rd - DeDt 202 Albion, ME 04910-973l (207)437-4301 Pinetree Garden Seeds PO Box 300 Route 100 New Gloucester, ME 04260 (207)926-3400 Seeds of Change PO Box 15700 Santa Fe, NM 87506 (505)983-8956 Stokes Seeds Inc Box 548 Buffalo, NY 14240 (905)688-4300 Gardener’s Supply Companv Dept COG15 - l-28 Intervale Rd Burlington, VT 05401-2850 (802)863-1700 Peaceful Valley Farm Supply PO Box 2209 BOG Grass Vallev, CA 95945 (916)272-47B9 J.W. Jung Seed co. r;’ : Box A3645 Randolph, WI 53957 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:18:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27771 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:18:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25162; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:08:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24673 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:06:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.194] (pm3mbr4-150-20.intrepid.net [209.190.150.20]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00600 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:07:55 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36B876A8.3147@cwcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:07:49 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle etc. Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 92 >My wife was enthusiastic about sprouting earlier this year (less so >now that winter is upon us) - all the usual seeds, beans etc - but we've >not yet tried wheatgrass. Anne Wigmore's book was so helpful that I >tried to call up her website(s): a couple of search items referred only >to health resorts, but I was unable to raise the Anne Wigmore Institute >- kept getting weird error messages including, on one occasion, This >Site is Forbidden! What has she done to annoy Bill Gates so ? Is it >just my server (Cable & Wireless) or have other subscribers also had >problems ? Tony N-S. Can you share some URL's with us, Tony? One thing that has already come to fore in this recent look into the 'sprouting scene': many people lack the knowledge, energy, and conficence to sow and reap what themselves, even if it's just a 7 day season on a windowsill flat. For that reason, yes, there are a lot of 'wheat grass juice with rejuvelac chaser' health clubs all over the world (but particularly in the warmer climates.) -Allan Balliett =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:27:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28002 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:27:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA26879; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:18:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA26146 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:14:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA23006 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:18:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:18:38 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 Dear Allan, RE: your letter and replies from Rob Johnston. I also wrote an email letter to Johnny's and got a reply that he will be replying to me soon. He never did. Michael From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:35:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28248 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:35:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28208; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27900 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:25:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp233.cy-net.net [208.21.195.42]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11031 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:39:50 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4F67.D792CAE0@FLYLO>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:02 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4F67.D792CAE0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Johnny's GE Seeds Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is there a listing of 'acceptable' seed sources? I currently buy from = Pinetree Garden and Fedco, both fairly Northern companies. Would like to = find companies more within my climate (tx). SSE is great but buying a = garden full of seed one packet at a time from a member here and a mem = there is expensive and time consuming. What is SSE's take on the recent information we've been handed? I = understand that Mars candy company owned a big chunk of Seeds Of Change = and recently bought the company totally. What changes do you expect from = that? Is this true? thanks martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgIRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAFgAAAFJFOiBKb2hubnkncyBHRSBTZWVkcwDBBgEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgAD AAsAGQABAAMAAwEBIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwALABQAKgADACcBAQmAAQAhAAAANjdGRkYwOTQ1MkJC RDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEA+QYBA5AGAHwFAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAA AAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AADBfSGaT74BHgBwAAEAAAAWAAAAUkU6IEpv aG5ueSdzIEdFIFNlZWRzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb5PmiF9lPD/aLtSEdKxEQDA8CloIQAAHgAe DAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAABmbHlsb0B0eGN5YmVyLmNvbQAAAAMABhC7GR3m AwAHEMoBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJU1RIRVJFQUxJU1RJTkdPRkFDQ0VQVEFCTEVTRUVEU09VUkNF Uz9JQ1VSUkVOVExZQlVZRlJPTVBJTkVUUkVFR0FSREVOQU5ERkVEQ08sQk9USEZBSVJMWU5PUlRI RVJOQ09NAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAYwIAAF8CAAD5AgAATFpGdc+GLMR3AAoBAwH3IAKkA+MCAGOCaArA c2V0MCAHE00CgH0KgAjIIDsJbzLMNTUCgAqBdWMAUAsDBmMAQQtgbmcxMDNSMwxgbG4CIGULpiAS SQQgdGgEkGUgYRQgbAQAdAuAZyBvyGYgJwDQY2UFMAGg8GxlJyAPsAmAF2AIYZEW0HM/IBUwIGMI cIMJcAIwbHkgYnUZADkDUiBQC4APwAnRIEfXCxEJ8BXAbhegRgmABaC6LBkQbxVwGVALcHIY8d5O CREVgQOgBaBtCrADANEHkC4gVwhgbBegFfDyaxWwdG8ZUAuAF6Act/4gBGAVoQPwFXALgB8gGQBW YxXwAMB0FbAoDNApox1ABgBTRSAEACAJwbcgYBkRIcJ5FjIV0GcaVL5mFFADIBZxF3MUgSAKsP5j HeAFQCGxFdAWIAeAGVTvFdAHgAbQBJAgFYQawSWTYxVlIVFleHAJ8ACQdk8mVCTzBaAAgHVtFjEu ewqiCoBXD4AFQCFRIREn3RVRYR3hAiAVYiAJcBbQqwIwIUBuAhByIFFpKwH+dxdAKBEl4BqBD4Aa wAmA+xgwGGB1LXEPoAGQKFIp4n5ND5EYcBqxIAEcwxkAb+Z3FJAmkmJpFlAPcC3wXmsWYgZgCYAE IE8WgEM9LVFnJlQrdBjyCGBnaL8FQCsyL6YeEAGQI0B5HUGvKeIPcTIxBCBkHiB5CGD9J5NjBUAZ Yy6iLbEVUiFR+xnwClA/KXQuoTEQD0Apg3sAwBxBYSl0ObgLMBXwM+42AUATgAFAcANgIHA2gAsp dBBxADyAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzCg6RiHmU++AUAACDCg6RiHmU++AQsA AIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUA AAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAL4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAA AAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAA AAAAAwANNP03AAC5Jw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:37:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28284 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:37:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28515; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:28:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28065 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:25:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp233.cy-net.net [208.21.195.42]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11187 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:40:48 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4F67.F9FBB100@FLYLO>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:26:00 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4F67.F9FBB100@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OOPS, answered my question in the next download, THANKS! [Martha Wells] ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgARAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAJQAAAFJFOiBSZWxpYWJsZSBTZWVkIGFuZCBTdXBwbHkgU291cmNlcwC2 DAEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgADAAsAGQA7AAMAPQEBIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwALABkAHAADAB4BAQmAAQAh AAAANkJGRkYwOTQ1MkJCRDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEABAcBA5AGANwDAAAhAAAACwACAAEA AAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AABw90OaT74BHgBw AAEAAAAlAAAAUkU6IFJlbGlhYmxlIFNlZWQgYW5kIFN1cHBseSBTb3VyY2VzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAA FgAAAAG+T5pD7pTw/2y7UhHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAS AAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJlci5jb20AAAADAAYQl8WFcgMABxA6AAAAHgAIEAEAAAA7AAAAT09QUyxB TlNXRVJFRE1ZUVVFU1RJT05JTlRIRU5FWFRET1dOTE9BRCxUSEFOS1NNQVJUSEFXRUxMUwAAAgEJ EAEAAADfAAAA2wAAABwBAABMWkZ1Gw+x43cACgEDAfcgAqQD4wIAY4JoCsBzZXQwIAcThwKDAFAO 9nBycTIP9iZ9CoAIyCA7CW8yNWY1AoAKgXVjAFALA2MDAEELYG5nMTAzMykMYGxuAiBlC6YgT6BP UFMsIABxdwSQQQmAIG15IHEKUHMUdGkCICALgCB0aBRlIBYgeAVAZG93Em4JAGFkFxBUSEHwTktT IQqiCoQKgQwxGCBbTQrAGLBhIFfgZWxsc10DMBUQChFNAUBpAUARQG90BZB0cRCEMTYgCuMKgBIB AAEesAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwIFNmMZpPvgFAAAgwIFNmMZpPvgELAACA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAA AAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAA AwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2 hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4A Q4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAA AAMADTT9NwAAw6M= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:45:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28451 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:45:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA29800; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:35:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29306 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:33:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp233.cy-net.net [208.21.195.42]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA12327 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:48:18 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4F69.05D8B080@FLYLO>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:33:30 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4F69.05D8B080@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: Garden Supply online Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:33:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 96 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.gardeners.com/actionupdates.html Gardeners Supply has a fairly informative page up on terminator technology and other bioengineering seed at the url above. Even though it's a catalog supply, overall they put out a lot of good information onsite. martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih4RAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAFQAAAEdhcmRlbiBTdXBwbHkgb25saW5lAKMHAQWAAwAOAAAAzwcCAAMA CwAhAB0AAwAnAQEggAMADgAAAM8HAgADAAsAHwAyAAMAOgEBCYABACEAAAA3MkZGRjA5NDUyQkJE MjExQjExMTAwQzBGMDI5NjgyMQD1BgEDkAYAoAQAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAA AAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAwEfLT5tPvgEeAHAAAQAAABUAAABHYXJkZW4g U3VwcGx5IG9ubGluZQAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvk+bT8uU8P9zu1IR0rERAMDwKWghAAAeAB4M AQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEgAAAGZseWxvQHR4Y3liZXIuY29tAAAAAwAGECriuWgD AAcQ3QAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhUVFA6Ly9XV1dHQVJERU5FUlNDT00vQUNUSU9OVVBEQVRFU0hU TUxHQVJERU5FUlNTVVBQTFlIQVNBRkFJUkxZSU5GT1JNQVRJVkVQQUdFVVBPTlRFUk1JTkFUT1JU RUNITk8AAAAAAgEJEAEAAACJAQAAhQEAAO0BAABMWkZ1UNYqtXcACgEDAfcgAqQD4wIAY4JoCsBz ZXQwIAcThwKDAFAO9nBycTIP9iZ9CoAIyCA7CW8yNWY1AoAKgXVjAFALA2MDAEELYG5nMTAzMycM YAlQC7UgaAJAcDrILy93FwAuZwsRCfBJBJBzLgWgbS8A0HSCaQIgdXBkYXQHkFouFpBtCVAV4G4C IGX3CqIKhBn2RxdWBgAYgAtQinkWgGEEIGEgZgtwbnIbsQuAAhByAMAYQHa0ZSAKsGcdUBiAIAIg /iAYwBzwC4AYsAWxGMAPcFsZcAkAZxvAAHBkHeB0smgEkCBiGFAJ8GcLgPcJ4AUQFXAgD7AJgBwQ BUC/H9EdsBxwHBAG4B1ALhm6lkUdQB4BaAhgZ2gcoPR0JxwCYxiwB0AfQCEA7RuDLB3gHUByB0AD IB/R+RvAcHUFQAhgBUAcIAkA4SZRZiBnbwRwHKgd8f8CIACQGMAiZQDAACAPgBm1XxUQAUARQB/A BZB0EIQxFjYZtBIBACvAAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMECQWxWbT74BQAAI MECQWxWbT74BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGF AAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAAB AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAJuQ= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 12:52:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28622 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:52:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01334; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:43:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00898 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:40:46 -0500 (EST) From: cvinson@mindspring.com Received: from hcv (user-38lcp0d.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.100.13]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA01127 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:41:41 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: <001801be4f9c$752f9e20$4ae145cf@hcv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 Some additions to list. These are companies/organizations I buy from that have stated policies re organic and untreated seed: 1. Sand Hill Preservation Center 1878 230th Street Calamus, Iowa 52729 2. Fox Hollow Seed Company, (Pennsylvania) 3. Heirloom Seed Company, Elizabeth, PA 4. Garden State Heirloom Seed Society 5. Bountiful Gardens (Calif.) 6. Seeds of Texas (College Station, Texas) 7. Redwood City (California) There are lots more. Will send addresses if someone is going to keep a list. Catharine/Atlanta -------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 13:18:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29213 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:18:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04982; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:05:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04479 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:02:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.24]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:11:38 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:03:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: OFMA GE Policy Message-ID: <4AAEBA60B9A6B5998525670D00631EF8.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 98 <> trying to see if anyone's awake out here eh, Allan? What still no crushing mob to sign onto the Tori Amos list? Happy Candlemas/Ground Hog/St.Brigid day (yesterday)!! JS From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 13:23:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29390 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:23:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA06739; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:14:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06104 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:11:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.217] (pm3mbr1-67-217.intrepid.net [206.102.67.217]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13165 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:12:32 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:01:59 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 99 >Dear Allan, > > RE: your letter and replies from Rob Johnston. > > I also wrote an email letter to Johnny's and got a reply that he will be >replying to me soon. He never did. Michael Then I guess I should be grateful for what I received, shouldn't I? :-) -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 13:25:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29426 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:25:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA07225; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:16:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06130 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:11:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.217] (pm3mbr1-67-217.intrepid.net [206.102.67.217]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13172 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:12:35 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE4F67.D792CAE0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:10:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 100 >Is there a listing of 'acceptable' seed sources? I currently buy from >Pinetree Garden and Fedco, both fairly Northern companies. Would like to >find companies more within my climate (tx). SSE is great but buying a >garden full of seed one packet at a time from a member here and a mem >there is expensive and time consuming. FEDCO, I understand, will remain a 'safe' seedsource. I do not know about Pinetree, but it is often recommended. SSE, well, here's where 'drifting,' etc becomes a great concern, IMHO. >What is SSE's take on the recent information we've been handed? I >understand that Mars candy company owned a big chunk of Seeds Of Change >and recently bought the company totally. What changes do you expect from >that? Is this true? >thanks >martha Martha - Steven Badger, president of Seeds of Change (SoC), is a member of the family that owns the Mars candy company. SoC hasn't been making a lot of money recently, as you might imagine, but both their goals and the expense of their outreach programs have remained high. For this reason, the principals at SoC found the 'take over' by M&M to be just another method of meeting their goals. Their goals, however, are not monetary, their goals revolve around promoting biodiversity why making small scale organic growing a practical endeavor. Their recent entrance into the organic food market is one way they hope to more effectively achieve their goals. Apparently NOONE IS marketing products with as high of content of small farm produced organic ingredients as theirs (everything is certified except the salt and the water and they are working on finding certified sources for both of these.) Founding members Howard Shapiro and Al Kapuler still 'run' SoC. As far as I know, no candy salespeople are making decisions at SoC. I still trust SoC, but my opinion may be biased: they just donated a 50lb bag of Austrian Winter Peas to my gardening project. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 13:31:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29506 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:31:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA07716; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:19:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06140 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:11:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.217] (pm3mbr1-67-217.intrepid.net [206.102.67.217]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13193 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:12:39 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001801be4f9c$752f9e20$4ae145cf@hcv> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:12:29 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 101 For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. -Allan igg@igg.com >Some additions to list. These are companies/organizations I buy from that >have stated policies re organic and untreated seed: > >1. Sand Hill Preservation Center > 1878 230th Street > Calamus, Iowa 52729 >2. Fox Hollow Seed Company, (Pennsylvania) >3. Heirloom Seed Company, Elizabeth, PA >4. Garden State Heirloom Seed Society >5. Bountiful Gardens (Calif.) >6. Seeds of Texas (College Station, Texas) >7. Redwood City (California) > >There are lots more. Will send addresses if someone is going to keep a list. > >Catharine/Atlanta >-------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 14:24:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00674 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:24:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA18059; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:14:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17417 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:11:54 -0500 (EST) From: cvinson@mindspring.com Received: from hcv (user-38lc8k6.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.34.134]) by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA19893 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:13:12 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:13:12 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4fa9$3e047760$862256d1@hcv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 102 Allan wrote: For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. ----------- Will send addresses in next couple of days. One thing that has to be taken into consideration is that very, very few seed companies (or organizations composed of seed savers) grow all its own seed. Even SSE is dependent on its members' word that the seed they list as having available through SSE is grown without pesticides, herbicides, chemical treatments, etc. Making a quick scan of the list of companies in the list that was posted I know of at least one company that does grow its own seed....and literally poisons the ground in which its grown IMHO. This company also advocates *heavy* use of herbicides to prepare the soil to receive its seeds! This is irresponsible stewardship in my mind and I will not buy seed from them. Yet, this same company says it has a policy again GE seed. Does that make the company "kosher"? Not in my opinion. What I am trying to say is that the issues are interwoven and complex. I am disappointed to see that Johnny's *appears* to be leaving the door open to carrying GE products in the future, but at the same time, I believe Johnny's is being straightforward in its response. And the company raises a good point that the "policing" of who is selling GE versus who isn't selling GE products is nigh onto impossible. Catharine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 15:04:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02223 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:04:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25445; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:56:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25125 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:54:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr1-67-219.intrepid.net [206.102.67.219]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00123 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:56:13 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001be4fa9$3e047760$862256d1@hcv> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:56:21 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 103 >Allan wrote: > >For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. > >I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC >seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. > >----------- >Will send addresses in next couple of days. > >One thing that has to be taken into consideration is that very, very few >seed companies (or organizations composed of seed savers) grow all its own >seed. Even SSE is dependent on its members' word that the seed they list as >having available through SSE is grown without pesticides, herbicides, >chemical treatments, etc. Making a quick scan of the list of companies in >the list that was posted I know of at least one company that does grow its >own seed....and literally poisons the ground in which its grown IMHO. This >company also advocates *heavy* use of herbicides to prepare the soil to >receive its seeds! This is irresponsible stewardship in my mind and I will >not buy seed from them. Yet, this same company says it has a policy again GE >seed. Does that make the company "kosher"? Not in my opinion. > >What I am trying to say is that the issues are interwoven and complex. I am >disappointed to see that Johnny's *appears* to be leaving the door open to >carrying GE products in the future, but at the same time, I believe Johnny's >is being straightforward in its response. And the company raises a good >point that the "policing" of who is selling GE versus who isn't selling GE >products is nigh onto impossible. > >Catharine Dear Catharine - Pardon my bluntness: there is no merit in being straightforward about supporting GE. It doesn't matter one whit who else is selling GE seeds when we discuss Johnny's support of gene tech. What's important is that we've identified this Trojan Horse; we now need to mark it with a big black flag or something and continue to search out these other weak spots in seed sourcing. Why so coy about the seed company that "and literally poisons the ground"? The purpose of the prelim list is for everyone to report their knowledge and experience with the names on the list. Johnny's was on that list until I took them off (they go on another list.) Please tell us who is using inappropriate techniques to produce seed. The Johnny's thing is v. scarey. Everywhere I look behind the scenes in Sustainable Ag, I see big envelopes of Johnny's seeds. I would hope that Rob Johnston would just back off from GE. Since it looks like he won't (or can't!) we need to make certain that all growers and organic food customers know that the company has expressed an openess for GE. (Better to do this now than to wait until they DO start selling GE seed. I mean, without being informed by someone who knows better, how would most growers every know that Johnny's was carrying GE seeds? Because they read the little icons? As one who spent most the last 10 years thinking that Johnny's is a fully-Organic seedsupplier, I can't rely on everyone to educate themselves. Everyone wants to trust companies like Johnny's. -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 15:18:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02657 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:18:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA27541; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:08:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27241 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp243.cy-net.net [208.21.195.52]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA00976 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:22:08 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0@FLYLO>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:07:13 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:07:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 104 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd really like the company listed in College Station Texas, practically in my back yard! And, I think Catherine implied that at least Johnny's, by being up front, has given us the choice of whether to buy from them or not. martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig0UAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAJQAAAFJFOiBSZWxpYWJsZSBTZWVkIGFuZCBTdXBwbHkgU291cmNlcwC2 DAEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgADAA4ABwAMAAMA/wABIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwAOAAIABgADAPQAAQmAAQAh AAAAQ0ZGRkYwOTQ1MkJCRDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEAFQcBA5AGAHgEAAAhAAAACwACAAEA AAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AABYHsmwT74BHgBw AAEAAAAlAAAAUkU6IFJlbGlhYmxlIFNlZWQgYW5kIFN1cHBseSBTb3VyY2VzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAA FgAAAAG+T7DJHpTw/9C7UhHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAS AAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJlci5jb20AAAADAAYQHjntYgMABxC5AAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASURSRUFM TFlMSUtFVEhFQ09NUEFOWUxJU1RFRElOQ09MTEVHRVNUQVRJT05URVhBUyxQUkFDVElDQUxMWUlO TVlCQUNLWUFSREFORCxJVEhJTktDQVRIRVJJTkVJTVBMSUVEVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAE0BAABJAQAA iwEAAExaRnXXgebmdwAKAQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxNNAoB9CoAIyCA7CW8yzDU1AoAK gXVjAFALAwZjAEELYG5nMTAz0jMMYGxuAiBlC6cKsWEKgEknZCAJcAdAbAB5IGxpa2UgdFZoFnAF oG0KsG4WInNqdAmAIAuAIAhQFgBlSmcWcFMBkHRpAiAgAFRleGFzLCBwtnIA0BigYxXzF8FtFiCi YgDQayB5CxEhFTToQW5kGUBJFoELgBqw/kMYkBagBRAUkBewFvAWQPcXkRaQGJAgHZEYIBkgBUBQ Sm9obhcgJxkxYgUaYWULgGcgdXAgHwNRAjAZQA+ABCBnaXbPCfAfcAQgFpNobxmwFnBwb2Ygdxag HHIWgG/9GnB1FiADUhaCIvAFsRRw/HQuCuMKhAqAAMAAIA+ACxU0EHEAJaAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMA ERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwAOYPE7BPvgFAAAgwAOYPE7BPvgELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4 LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAztU= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 15:47:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03403 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:47:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA02365; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:35:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02089 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:34:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.116.18] (client-151-196-116-18.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.18]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08034 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:35:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902032035.PAA08034@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 15:13:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 105 I, too, have profound misgivings about GE seeds and all the rest. Many years ago I met a sparkling-eyed elder of the Huichol people in the Sierra Madre Mountains of west Mexico. Don Jose Matsuwa -- then 106 years old -- told me that he had used a philosophical key to keep himself in balance throughout his many long years of hard work in hot fields growing corn and then at night around the village fire as the people's respected ceremonialist and healer (with his wife Dona Josefa). Don Jose's key: "Watch your intention, then pay attention." So one must ask, what do we know of the intentions -- spoken and unspoken -- of the transnational corporations steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, and such? That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. It is murky beyond comfort. Don Jose said said the second part of the key was to "pay attention." See what the results are. On that basis you can make a sound evaluation of your materials and practices. And on that basis, I'd like another 25 years minimum to pay careful attention to the genetic (Uranian-Aquarian) impulse. I wholeheartedly recommend this relatively brief era of consideration to all GE scientists, businesspeople, farmers, and consumers -- and also specifically to Johnny's Seeds. We are part of the Sacred Hoop of Life, and in a full-life relationship with all parts of it. This decade -- over and over -- respected spiritual elders of this Turtle Island continent have warned that if we continue to think and act as if we are Masters and Dominators of the natural world, our relationship with the Earth will fail. So it is. In the way of the Huichol -- and many other Native nations -- the careful trial of such new cultural and agricultural elements -- would run for Seven Generations. In this way the whole of the Sacred Hoop is respected and made strong. Megwiich, Steven M. P.S. If someone has time and energy and wants to forward this Down East to Johnny's, you're welcome to do it. Much obliged. I gotta go. "You never change anything by fighting the existing. To change something, build a new model and make the existing obsolete." - Buckminster Fuller: From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 16:07:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04111 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:07:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05890; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:59:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05427 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:56:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-11.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.12]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id MAA06957 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:58:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902032058.MAA06957@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:53:32 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: BD SEEDS RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources In-Reply-To: <01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 106 To the List: For practical purposes the backyard BD grower can skirt the GE issue entirely, as Allan suggested, by patronizing BD seed sources. Aurora Farm, Turtle Tree Seeds, Sharon Carson, and the soon-to-be operating [I hope] BD seed exchange, cutely named the Sowing Circle and [I hope again] enjoying some support from the BDA. For commercial growers and CSA growers, it may be, however, that the above sources will not be able to supply the quantities needed. Again: Turtle Tree Seeds Copake Village Copake, NY 12516 Aurora Biodynamic Farm 3492 Phillips Road Creston, B C V0B 1G2 aurora@kootenay.com www.kootenay.com/~aurora (250) 428-4404 Sharon Carson RT 2 Box 277 Delmar DE 19940 (302) 846-2571 BD Sowing Circle Amy Bohn 433 Williams Creek Road Oakville, WA 98568 (360) 273-8702 amybohn@olywa.net Woody From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 16:19:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04489 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:19:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA07776; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:11:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from fep7.mail.ozemail.net (fep7-old.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.99]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA07349 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:08:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (slmlb32p30.ozemail.com.au [203.108.109.30]) by fep7.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA02990 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:10:12 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <008601be4fb9$9f450fc0$1e6d6ccb@default> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "Gwenda Robb" To: Subject: Re: Allan Chadwick Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:10:25 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 I have a delightful book - Enchanted garden-Alan Chadwick's organic method of gardening, by Tom Cuthbertson. Published in America as Alan Chadwick's Enchanted garden.1978 The charming and unusual content is presented in a story format as from the perspective of a rabbit (the aussie farmers will love that!) out of print but well worth chasing up. Warm regards Gwenda Hi Allan! > >Are there any pearls of wisdom that you can share with us about the >conference you attended? I am trying to remember the connection between the >Jeavons (biointensive gardening/farming) and the biodynamic methods...and >the differences too. Wasn't there some mention on this awhile back? Could >you elaborate on this a bit? > >Julie - Alan Chadwick taught biodynamics at Santa Cruz and a few other gardens in the 70's. Although he had worked with Rudolf Steiner as a child, the milieu at Santa Cruz (a Univeristy which contained prominent faculty members who were demonstrably hostile to even the IDEA of non-chemical farming) made it prudent to trim back the tools he would use to invoke fertility there. (He did not use the preps in America, but he did discuss them in private with some of his students.) His immense knowledge of horticulture, coupled with a thorough understanding of composting and cultivation methods, allowed him to create a truly remarkable abundance From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 17:56:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA07080 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:56:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA25097; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:46:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24536 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:42:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.234] (pm3mbr1-67-234.intrepid.net [206.102.67.234]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01647 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:44:03 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:40:19 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 >I'd really like the company listed in College Station Texas, practically >in my back yard! >And, I think Catherine implied that at least Johnny's, by being up front, >has given us the choice of whether to buy from them or not. > >martha That's the secondary issue here, martha, to make certain that every grower of Organic food be aware that Johnny's is open to 'offering' GE seed and to make certain that every consumer of Organic food be aware that their grower could be purchasing seeds from a source that sells GE seed. Here in Shepherdstown we have a man who sells at farmer's market every Sunday. Years ago, an ambitious extension agent encouraged him to get organic certification because 'Organic produce brings more money.' He became a certified organic grower for a few years and honked his horn about it quite loudly. Ultimately, however, he discovered two things: the first was that he didn't have the sort of intention/attention that is required to grow food organically; the second was that the majority of people in this county are not willing to pay more for organic produce. In a very short time, since neither the productivity nor the profit was there for him, he moved out of organics and dropped his certification. He wasn't as noisey about this, however. To this day, most people will tell you "Buy from ol' So-and-So, he's Organic." But he aint Organic. He ain't even close to Organic. A similar situation occurs with the Fresh Fields and related food chains. Only a portion of the products and produce they carry is organic and yet repeatedly I run into people who believe that what they are buying there is "100% Organic." The truth is, you have to scurtinize the labeling of EVERYTHING to make certain that your getting something that is up to your personal standards. As always, a Safe Food supply requires eternal vigilance. In this case, I think it will be to everyone's benefit to make sure that everyone we know who grows or eats is aware that the formerly Organic farmering mainstay, Johnny's Selected Seeds, has made a public statment that they are open to GE seeds in the near future. (And, more to the point: because of how their business is structured, they may actually have no choice in the matter....) -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 17:57:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA07100 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:57:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA25193; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:46:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24555 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:42:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.234] (pm3mbr1-67-234.intrepid.net [206.102.67.234]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01658 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:44:06 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:42:50 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Hunting for the deer bladder Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 Dr Steiner indicated that we ought to take a (Rotwild) red deer (male) bladder (stag bladder) into which we are to put dry, moistened Yarrows and, in spring, hang this bladder (as full as possible) underneath the overhang of our roof or in a place (shadowy) where it cannot be attacked by birds, mice and other rodents. Well, it is not my intention to discuss this part of the preparation making process but rather in the procurement of the deer bladder. And here, my friends, I really hit rock bottom. I think I reported to you how difficult it is to get high quality cow parts (mesentery, horns, small intestine etc.). It is much more difficult to get a good stag bladder. Now, imagine, in the days when Dr. Steiner gave his lectures (1924) many or most farms were surrounded by or included forests and fields in which a great variety of animals could live such as foxes, rabbits, hair, deer, squirrels and so forth. Farmers were familiar with the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly (life) rhythms of all these animals. The deer does not simply walk into the field(s) at any time of the day or night. It has a very special rhythm - like the sea. Coming and going. Observing. Eating brefly, regurgitating for hours. Picking herbs here, a bit of a bud there - here a leaf and there some grass. Moving, smelling, pissing, standing, sleeping - in constant motion. And so, I went a hunting. Gun, red jacket, boots, very thick underwear (it was minus 20 degrees Celsius (Finland). You cannot simply go out there and shoot a deer. You have to know what you are going for. You are constantly on the alert. You walk. YOu stand. You look. You listen. You wait - sometimes for a few hours, somewhere in a bush or in a ditch. You have become the shadow of the deer. When he moves, you move too. When he stands, you watch. And then, you crawl - just a bit and wait again. And nothing, absolutely nothing is happening. For hours. You may go home - and so have I - with a feeling of vast soul expansion. You see white, you see stars, you are outside yourselves. The tension inside you is there - you know that, at any time, you may have to shoot. To kill. To cut. To saw. To drain blood. To take out the innards and to carry a dead animal. You are standing at the threshhold of life and death. You are a guardian. You ought to be wise....! Deer bladders are very, very difficult to obtain. I went hunting for three days and I've walked many, many miles. I've spent hours on end in a tiny hut, at temperatures way below freezing - equipped with night vision, a candle by my side. Clad in army fatigue.......................... And now, I am of the opinion that I am on the right track. We must potentize our preparations. We must make highest quality preparations. Preparations that contain the wisdom of those who care for the environment and not simply stag bladders of deer that come from road kill or from hunting parties. We cannot let anybody else do the hunting for us. That simply is not fair and does not support the BD process. With the hunting goes the care for the forest, the observations of the trees and the plants. With the hunting goes the careful study of all the animals that live in our forest(s). They have rhythms. Deer come and go at intervals of two to two and a half hours. They reappear in the same area in intervals of half a day. They do not run around like wild dogs. They follow etheric streams. They are light gatherers. Highly sensitive. Very attentive, knowledgeable, fast and as shy as shadows. The deer is a great teacher. He teaches us in great depth how the forest and the land must be integrated. Without a wholesome integration of forest and farm-land: no proper farming. Without a proper farming no wholesome food. Without wholesome food a mankind that cannot think properly. Yet, we are slowly approaching this awful abyss: fewer and fewer people know how to think. Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 19:15:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA08452 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:15:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA07156; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:02:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06802 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:59:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp265.cy-net.net [208.21.195.74]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA02278 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:14:41 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE4F9E.FBF7CA20@FLYLO>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:59:46 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE4F9E.FBF7CA20@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources (and on down the line) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:59:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F9E.FC00F1E0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 110 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F9E.FC00F1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Allan: I understand what you're saying, also. Can't sit on the fence on this = one, but I'm trying! When I have extra to market, I know our local = produce stand will buy everything I can haul in. He has a room carries = only organic produce, herbs and fruit. HOWEVER, the last time I asked = about selling extra last year, he commented that he was beginning to = grow his own (this is a huge company, Scarmado's in College Station Tx). = He said that without constant vigilance on his, the marketer's part, he = couldn't be certain that even though the certification says OG, the = grower could have filled out his bins with ordinary produce to round out = the offer. since OG does command more money, even buying produce and = reoffering it would make a profit if that were the case.=20 (I had hauled my certifications for him to put on file, and he said, OH, = I don't need yours, I found a worm in your broccoli.) Uh, thanks, I = think! I STILL SAY, I never understood why people who do nothing to their crops = in the way of poisons, chemicals etc, constantly have to prove it. When = are the poisoneers going to have to supply information on the crap they = use? Off topic Y2K and hybrid seed. Interesting note in this day of the = Terminator news. The Mining Company recently issued a few pages that = say, ok, the lights will be on next year. BUT, the food industry could = be hit hard, as most major cities only have reserves for a 72 hour = period. What happens is hybrid seed isn't as viable as OP seed, and = pretty much needs to be resupplied annually. (Thank you, Monsanto.) If there is a break in that chain of events, serious shortages could = occur. I'm not clapping in glee here, but maybe this is the eye-opener = that people are going to need.=20 part of the reason OG is still not mainstream is the cost factor. It's = too costly for corporate ag America to grow corn by the tonnage in = organically managed systems. Wait till they find out it's too costly NOT = to. 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Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:18:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA16313; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:08:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com (teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com [139.134.5.173]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA16012 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:05:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot25.domain0.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ja406025 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:03:11 +1000 Received: from WBBH-T-001-p-165-11.tmns.net.au ([139.134.165.11]) by mail0.bigpond.com (Claudes-Aquatic-MailRouter V2.2a); 04 Feb 1999 11:03:10 From: "Maritza de Oliveira and Angela Medeiros" To: Subject: GE Seeds Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:05:45 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <01031109343652@domain0.bigpond.com> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 Dear friends, Any speculations as to what happens with the etheric of GE plants? What if the etheric of our plants will be strong/pure/dense/healthy enough to whitstand cross pollination with GE plants ? I am suggesting combating this technological terrorism with a spiritual approach. Angela Medeiros From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 3 21:38:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA11648 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA26344; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:28:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA26205 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.94]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA15792 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:19:12 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990203182520.00918500@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:25:20 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Re: Cosmic Pipes, BD Stirring Tank, Sonic Spray In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id VAA26217 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 Dear Lloyd, At 05:55 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi igg. Thanks for all of the good advice. I didn't have time to reply >last week. You mentioned a cosmic pipe that used a drawing of a printed >circuit, a photo of an Aztec crystal skull and a bobby pin. I think >SECRETS OF THE SOIL said that too. I'd sure like to know the details of >how that is put in the pipe. > You said prayer may work just as well as any other subtle energy >method. Do you know how prayer can be tested scientifically by us email >subscribers? I don't have faith that my prayers would work as well as >many people's prayers. Do I have to bolster my faith? Have you seen >www.Neil.Slade.net? He talks about research that shows benefits of >collective prayer. I was wondering if subscribers might like to ask >other subscribers for prayers on a particular concern maybe at a >particular time. Art Bell seemed to get very good results with that for >bringing rain to needy areas, etc. What I'd like others to help me pray >for at 6 pm Feb. 6 or any time is clarity on how to be successful with >our organic farming this year. Prayer is generally placed in the realm of religion. In order for science to acknowledge the existence and effectiveness of prayer it first must discover a physical mechanism whereby non-physical (or spirit) energy and information can be brought into the physical realm. Rudolph Steiner's theories and observations would lend evidence to support such a discovery but Steiner wrote in the early part of this century before quantum theory became well accepted. The ORMUS theory postulates that there is a state of matter which can move from the physical to the non-physical and back. It is like having atoms with one leg in the non-physical and two legs in the physical. Under certain conditions these atoms can be induced to have two legs in the non-physical and one in the physical, in which case, they disappear and loose all weight. This phenomena is graphed at: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/Patents/figur012.gif According to ORMUS theory, the atoms in the powder which is being weighed are dropping to another space-time sheet. There are strong indications that the ORMUS elements are involved with the biological cell components which make decisions and perform computations. A couple of scientists have postulated that these cell components make decisions by throwing a problem into the infinite realm of all possible universes and retrieve the solution almost instantaneously. A more elaborate discussion of this idea is available at: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/ORMUS/ormus.htm If this is so, then we may have identified the mechanism which connects the physical and non-physical realms. While the mere knowledge of the existence of such a connecting mechanism does not identify the properties of the non-physical realm, it does provide a starting place for making the scientific case for the existence of mind independent of matter. > Have you seen any of these sites on ormus elements? >http://209.17.143.141/ormus/ORMUS/ormus2.htm, >http://www.u.arizona.edu/~hameroff/penrose1.html, >http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/whatisit.htm > They say the ormus elements are responsible for biological growth and >nerve functions, that they are superconducting and paramagnetic. One of >the sites says how to separate ormus elements from others, but then they >have to be protected from sunlight, etc. I thought it might be better to >leave them in their source material. Volcanic rock and limestone are >supposed to have a lot of ormus. So I'm thinking of stirring the ground >rockdust in water like a BD prep, stirring and reversing, and applying >it to the soil. Do you know anything about that? The process of conversion from the m-state (ORMUS state) to metal is facilitated by exposure to sunlight. Though sunlight does not complete this conversion, it is one component of the process. For this reason it is recommended that the pure ORMUS materials not be exposed to direct sunlight. Our working hypothesis in this regard is that the ORMUS elements, being superconductors, can store a considerable amount of energy. When this energy storage capacity is exceeded, the Meissner field, which helps to maintain these elements in the ORMUS state, collapses. On the occasion of this collapse the ORMUS elements may convert to energy and disappear in a flash of light or they may simply drop to the metallic state. Since all of the atoms in a pile of m-state material would not be exposed to sunlight evenly this Meissner collapse would not proceed evenly and so one could expect a variation in the state of the material depending on where it was in the pile. There is a great deal we don't know about these materials. Since concentrated ORMUS elements can "disappear in a flash of light", we felt it was prudent to suggest that they be kept from direct exposure to light. There does seem to be a concentration or purity component to this phenomena. It also seems to relate more to the m-state rhodium than to the other ORMUS elements. Though the ORMUS elements are abundant in any salt flat, one does not see these salt flats disappearing in a flash of light as can happen with the purified ORMUS materials. Alchemists claim that salt acts as a sort of keeper for the alchemical materials. We have noticed that this is true of the ORMUS materials as well. The sodium in salt, in particular seem to provide a "comfy space" for the ORMUS atoms to "hang out". Generally, unbound ORMUS elements in water will levitate out of the water as the water moves across the Earth's magnetic field. It is fairly clear that all of the ORMUS elements in water do not levitate out but some of them do. I believe that we will find that there are ways to use biodynamic and paramagnetic theories to create conditions favorable to the concentration of the ORMUS elements in the soil and to reduce their loss to leaching. This entire field of inquiry is new to modern science, though it may not be new historically. Any work done in this field, at this time, is virtually guaranteed to be cutting edge science. There is startling evidence that the ORMUS materials were known in ancient times. Sir Laurence Gardner, an internationally known sovereign and chivalric genealogist for the royal families of Europe has found amazing evidence among the ancient records of the royal families that these materials were known in ancient Egypt, Persia and Israel. There is a transcription of one of Gardner's recent lectures on this subject at: http://www.icom.net/~nexus/starfire1.html In this lecture Gardner suggests that Moses, working at an Egyptian temple/laboratory on Mount Serâbît in the Sinai peninsula, turned the golden calf into a white powder of ORMUS gold. He also suggests that this is the material which was the focus of the sages and kings of the time. He links these materials to the Grail, manna, the Philosopher's Stone, soma, and many other ancient things. I am fairly certain that as we look into these ancient connections we will find many that relate to the use of these materials in agriculture. > The chapter of SECRETS OF THE SOIL on Flanagan's studies said the >best shape for stirring is ovoid with a width to length ratio of 1 to >the sq. rt. of 2, i.e. 1 to 1.414. That produces the strongest vortex. >Does anyone use an ovoid spray tank? Joe and I are thinking of making >one of fiberglass. I also tho't it might be fine to just cut a spherical >tank in half and add about a foot or so long cylindrical midsection. >Joe's looking to find a spherical tank. But I suppose a cylindrical tank >might be good enuf. What do you think? Vortex action seems to be related to the ORMUS materials in several ways. The physicist Tony Smith associates the Compton Radius Vortex to the psychic subatomic particle observations of Theosophists Charles Leadbeater and Annie Besant. He uses their illustration of the Anu for his illustration of the Compton Radius Vortex. See: http://tony.ai/Sidharth.htm Several physicists have proposed that sonoluminescence is a form of fusion energy. Sonoluminescence occurs in water which is vibrated with high frequency sound. One company claims that they have a water heating device which uses mechanically created vortexes to produce over-unity amounts of hot water. You can read about this at: http://www.mv.com/ipusers/zeropoint/IEHTML/FEATURE/FSETS/popeset.html I believe that this device uses resonance coupling to the ORMUS materials in the water to extract energy from non-physical realms. > We're thinking of using mechanical stirring for the BD preps, etc. >The book said other farmers do that. Do you think that works as well as >stirring by hand? Joe tho't of hooking several pumps together on the PTO >and having a hose from each one going into the tank. At the end of the >hose would be a tee and a valve to make the water flow one way, then the >other. I don't know how we'd control the valve yet. We assume that this >would create a vortex in the tank as quickly as would a mechanical >stirring device and that the reversing of the flow to make chaos would >be easier. He was thinking of using about 1 and a half inch diameter >hose and tees, maybe four of them in all. That'd give quite a bit of >cross-sectional area, like a paddle would. Would you or anyone else have >experience along these lines? > The book also talked about "singing to clay" or something like that. >It mentioned a farmer who would sing a note into a bucket or barrel >while stirring and reversing water before applying to soil or crops, I >think. Do you know if that's helpful? And how the note is determined? >You said the sonic bloom type of spraying isn't needed bekuz the stomata >of the leaves are open anyway in the mornings [and evenings?]. But the >book implied that the high pitch sounds are helpful to the mitochondria >of the plant cells where energy is made. It said the mitochondria are >tuned to about 25 cycles per second and that bird song of about 5000 cps >are a harmonic of that. Also, if birdsong in the mornings and evenings >are what open the stomata, a lot of our ground is not very near to trees >where birds usually sit, so we tho't we might need to use the high pitch >anyway. Or do the stomata stay open then even without the birdsongs? And >is there a cheap source of the gibberillin that you know of? Are there >plants that have it in concentrated form, or whatever? A magnetic vortex can be applied to water and this seems to energize the water. I suspect that the m-state elements are somewhat energized and that this extra energy translates into a stronger Meissner field which facilitates intercellular communication in living organisms which take the water in. Of course, any time you stir or shake anything it is being moved in relation to the Earth's magnetic field. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 00:16:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA13989 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:16:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA14563; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:04:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from top.monad.net (root@top.monad.net [204.97.16.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27784 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:41:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from monad.net (arc1-98.keene.monad.net [206.231.109.98]) by top.monad.net (8.8.8/What) with ESMTP id VAA03613 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:42:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B90886.2D002B03@monad.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 21:40:23 -0500 From: Anton Elbers Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Orchard Hill Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 > I am new to this list and have only been readin the post's on GE seeds > and Johnny's for the last few days. I am concerned that the tone of this > discussion is so onesided. I read the letter that Rob Johnston wrote in > answer to the questions posed and although the positions he took might not > be agreeable to everyone on this list, I don't remember him saying that he > is ready or convinced at this time to sell or would try to sell GE seeds > without informing people, something that Allan seemed to be implying with > his story in the earlier post. > I truly believe that rather than starting a boycott our energy's are > better put towards finding ways to improve communication between the various > people and groups involved in finding ways to create a sustainable way of > life on this planet. > I don't believe that anyone of us has the answers to all the questions > facing us and it will take all of us working together to find the answers. -- Anton Elbers Orchard Hill Farm HC 63 box 91B East Alstead, N.H 03602 Aren't you nebber coming home? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 00:17:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA14013 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:17:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA14751; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:05:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28776 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:50:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-10.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.11]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id SAA26779 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:52:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902040252.SAA26779@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:32:02 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: BD SEEDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id VAA28782 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 Listfolk: In my listing of BD seed sources I inadvertently left off Elixer Farm, specialists in Chinese Medicinals.  Elixer Farm Botanicals, LLC Brixey, MO 65618 (417) 261-2393 www.elixerfarm.com Woody From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 11:54:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21245 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:53:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07868; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:45:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06016 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:35:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr3-67-162.intrepid.net [206.102.67.162]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28595 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:37:15 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:37:38 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: "Seeds of Discord" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 115 Seeds of Discord Monsanto's Gene Police Raise Alarm On Farmers' Rights, Rural Tradition By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, February 3, 1999; Page A01 BRUNO, Saskatchewan-On a cold January morning in central Canada, Percy Schmeiser looks over his frozen fields. "Here's where all the trouble began," he says, pointing to where private investigators last year arrived uninvited and snipped samples of his crops for DNA tests. Schmeiser, 68, has been farming these fertile acres all his life, growing canola for the valuable oil in its seeds. And as farmers have done for thousands of years, he has saved some seeds from each year's harvest to replant his fields the following season. Now, he says, "for doing what I've always done," he is being sued by agribusiness giant Monsanto Co. in a landmark "seed piracy" case. The outcome could influence how much control biotechnology companies will have over the world's food supply in the next millennium, and is highlighting a major source of friction as the genetic revolution spills into the world of agriculture. Schmeiser is one of hundreds of farmers in the United States and Canada who stand accused by Monsanto of replanting the company's patented, gene-altered seeds in violation of a three-year-old company rule requiring that farmers buy the seeds fresh every year. He vehemently denies having bought Monsanto's seeds, saying pollen or seeds must have blown onto his farm, possibly from a neighbor's land. It's the company, Schmeiser says, that ought to be rebuked for its pattern of "harassment." Besides sending Pinkerton detectives into farmers' fields, the company sponsors a toll-free "tip line" to help farmers blow the whistle on their neighbors and has placed radio ads broadcasting the names of noncompliant growers caught planting the company's genes. Critics say those tactics are fraying the social fabric that holds farming communities together. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 12:52:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA22663 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:52:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19163; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:45:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18460 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:42:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr2-66-162.intrepid.net [206.102.66.162]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08589 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:43:48 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:42:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 116 I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER CERTIFICATION. ( You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is not necessarily ORGANIC. AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil test reports from independent labs.) Thanks for finding time for this -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 13:13:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA23225 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:13:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA23228; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:05:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22901 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:04:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA25217 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:08:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:08:11 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 Dear Allan, Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. Michael On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER > CERTIFICATION. ( > You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a > definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on > the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, > maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't > come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > > > > Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with > particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is > not necessarily ORGANIC. > > AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations > which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil > test reports from independent labs.) > > > Thanks for finding time for this > > -Allan Balliett > moderator, BD NOW! > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 14:23:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25640 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:23:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA06496; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:15:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd93.hotmail.com [207.82.252.157]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA05376 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:11:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10313 invoked by uid 0); 4 Feb 1999 19:12:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19990204191205.10312.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:12:02 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF:Mixed Signals Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:12:02 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 118 To any and all, Sometimes the source of signals is easily mis-understood when I am working in nature. In biodynamics, I believe we are looking at the way the head underground works in contrast to the way in the atmosphere above. I did not fully comprehend this until reading some text about the pioneering done in early radio. In the early days of radio the ground was considered the most effective collector and transmittor of energy and signals. Those signals in the ground are strongest around peculiar geologic formations. I am unsure of the particular formation in which they are strongest in but mabey I will be able to understand more in the future through study, but NOT in the CONVENTIONAL or what we call modern. For this I am grateful to people like Dr. Steiner for there are parallels in pioneering radio of principals associated with the ground and in what Dr. Steiner gave in his Ag Lectures. I don't know actually what happened during my great-grandfathers epoch but the course of history through civilization seems to have embraced principals of opposite nature than that of biodynamics or pioneering radio. It is possible that a conspiratorial, greed based society would want to posses these concepts for their own. It is also possible that through scholarship in the university system at that time that these errors were perpetuated -- creating new myths. But not in getting too far away from the theme of this mailing, I do realize that geologics play a role in the signal strength of the ground. Some areas of the world that have peculiar formations seem to amplify signals more readily and some areas are dead. The area I live in, I do believe has a definite signature. It is so peculiar, for I am able to think a thing at a particular locale and then later on have someone either write or speak this same thing I was earlier thinking. This has happened enumerable times. Other things that have happened as well has to do with the place that I raise fish at. That area is prone to periodic flooding. I am constantly doing things to try to dicourage flooding without altering its serenity. Many times I have thought that I should do this or that and then do the thing. It works! No trial or error! Strange. An even stranger thing is that one would tend to think that heavy rains and flooding go together. I have found this to be totally untrue in an area that has a deep geologic & biodynamic foundation. The more I work with bd in that area the more responsive it becomes. So sometimes, I have found that the response that biodynamic nature is making that I have imagined that some human was watching me and mocking me by for example, not allowing flooding to occur. Then as I was reading things about pioneering radio, I realized. Yes, Yes, Yes. Steiner was most correct. A farm or garden can have its own unique personality. It IS AN ENTITY! You help it, It helps you. There is interaction between the soil and man or woman. It can be such a strong relationship, that the earth itself can take over and do the things that we are unable to due for lack of time or some other lack. Anyway, I am just beginning to realize what this Steiner fellow was refering to. It is one thing to understand something through intelligence and another to understand through personal experiance. It can be literal and it can be spiritual at the same time. I don't believe the two can be seperate because of movement between the two .... the marriage between heaven and earth has brought forth man and woman. By the way, if I have offended any on this list by my short sightedness of experiance, please accept my apology friends. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 14:49:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26426 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:49:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12010; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:41:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11782 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:41:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.76]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAB20676 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:33:07 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990204113731.0086d250@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:37:31 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Web Based Activism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 119 Dear Friends, Several recent notes to this list have mentioned the possiblity of web based activism. I have been watching web based action campaigns for several years and have come up with some guidelines for successful email based action alerts. I am including some examples of well done and not so well done calls for action. I just got a note from a Pakistani newspaper writer calling for an effort to stop government censorship in Pakistan. This note did not include some of the most important items that should be included in such a call for action. Here is my note to this writer: Dear Isa, The kind of problem you mention below can be effectively countered by internet activists and I wish you luck. The most effective calls for action include the following information: 1. A clear and fairly brief description of the problem. 2. A direct personal example of the problem. 3. Information on where to go for more information (preferrably a web site). (If such is site is inadvisable with a Pakistan address it could be set up with a sympathizer in another country.) 4. An example letter which suggests comments or, 5. A list of suggested actions. For example: A. Take the 60-day No Aspartame Test and send us your case history. Mission Possible International 5950-H State Bridge Rd. #215, Duluth, GA 30097 USA B. Tell your doctor and all of your friends! 6. A list of addresses of people to contact with our objections. Here is an example of several of these concepts in action: PLEASE SEND LETTERS TODAY!!!! Here's what you should say, but in your own words. Tell these captains of industry that Boise Cascade is making a large and expensive mistake. The opposition to the project is widespread and diverse, from Chile's tourism industry to Chile's salmon industry to the Mayor of Puerto Montt to environmental groups from around the world. Chile's temperate rainforests are priceless, too valuable to be squandered away as wood chips and fiber board. The world's largest chip and board mill is not appropriate in Chile, its offensive. Chileans will fight it tooth and nail, and so will international environmental groups. In that kind of environment, Boise Cascade will have a very difficult time guaranteeing a sufficient supply of timber for their Cascada Chile mill. Its a risky venture for them, and it will just get riskier. In addition, specifically tell Mr. Harad and his board partner, Mr. Robert Jaedicke, to instead reinvest in their projects at home by emphasizing responsible management of their lands. And urge Mr. Marshall Carter and Mr. John Gunn to use their financial stockholder might as leverage to put pressure on Boise Cascade to pull out of this shaky and irresponsible investment. There is a window of opportunity right now for us to help Boise Cascade reverse course. The company still must obtain full bank financing for the Cascada Chile project in order for it to go forward, and Boise Cascade's board of directors must also vote its approval of the project at their meeting this Spring. Thousands of influential letters can turn them around! Mr. George Harad Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Boise Cascade Corporation 224 E. Braemere Rd. Boise, Idaho 83702-1710 Mr. Marshall N. Carter, CEO State Street Bank & Trust 225 Franklin St. Boston, MA 02110 Mr. Robert K. Jaedicke Stanford University Graduate School of Business Stanford, CA 94305 Mr. John Gunn, President Dodge & Cox 1 Sansome Street San Francisco, CA 94104-4436 ________________________________________________________ 7. Target the activists that you feel are most likely to respond. Join email lists and newsgroups which might have folks willing to help your cause. Find individuals who are a part of numerous newsgroups or email lists who might circulate your message to the lists that they are a part of. Suggest the type of activists that these folks might contact. In your call for action, ask that it be circulated as widely as possible. 8. Put a short but descriptive title on your plea. "Sinking the News" is good but it does not convey what you wish to have happen. How about "Help Stop Pakistan Government from Sinking the News". 9. Protect yourself. Use an anonymous remailer for responses, have a friend in another country forward responses, write your story in the third person and anything else that you can think of to protect your ability to keep up the fight. Your continuted information is the most critical thing to the continuation of this effort. Develop as many alternative means of getting information out as you can. Also, see if you can find others who will continue the fight if you no longer have communication access. It is important for those who oppose you to know that they cannot solve the problem by silencing a few voices. 10. Help people make the link between your cause and other popular causes. If there are US corporations which are pushing the Pakistani government into its position, you can get anti-corporate folks to support your cause. Are labor issues involved? If they are, you can target a call to action to labor related activists. The same with environmental, human rights and globalist issues. It might be nice to have a message which ties all of these items into one call to action but it might be more effective to have several messages targeted to different activist communities. You want to get your message cross posted to as many email lists as possible. Make this easy for folks to do by providing a justification for them to post things that might be a little bit off subject but not far enough off subject that they will be criticized for their post. An environmental forest activist friend of mine has written a fine series of articles on how to be an effective activist. Though these articles apply to forest activism there are many principles that relate to activism in general. This series is called "Usual Suspects" and can be found at: http://britell.com/use/use1.html I hope that I will have an opportunity to help circulate your message when I have a clearer idea of what you wish to happen. At 01:43 PM 2/4/99 +0500, you wrote: > > >---------- >From: Isa Daudpota [SMTP:daudpota@sdnpk.undp.org] >Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 7:28 PM >To: Undisclosed.recipients:; >Subject: "Sinking the News" > >This is my plea against the Government of Pakistan's attempt >to get 16 journalists fired from the national daily "The News". Isa > >-------------------"Sinking the News"----------------------- > > >Fascism survives in its morbid forms througout the world, but nowhere are >its methods more blatant than in the developing world. Dissidents are >intimidated and newspapers pressured to present a pleasing picture of the >government's performance. Where govenments begin to act like Goliath, >thankfully, Davids springs up, and their appearance restores ones faith in >society's latent capacity for healing. In Pakistan, there are 16 such >Davids whose honest ink have filled the columns of "The News" and >highlighted continued misgovernance in Pakistan. The government is now >coercing this national daily to stifle these brave voices and to replace >them by others who would readily trumpet the government's achievements. > >In such times let's remind ourselves of the moving words of Pastor Martin >Nielmoller. [The string of journalists from other newspapers who have >appeared on Pakistan Television *supporting* the government's action need >to pay particular attention.] The Pastor wrote: > >"In Germany they first came for the Communist and I didn't speak up >because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't >speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, >and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came >for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then >they came for me -- and by that time no one was left to speak up." > >A united journalists' community and others who value a liberal press >should strongly oppose the government's high-handed policy to suppress >free journalism in this country. Remember, that failure in this would be >a step towards ending unbiased national reporting. It would condemn those >wanting to know the national news -- grim as it is in reality -- to >viewing Pakistan Television's sugary government propaganda. Horror! >That's reason enough to put up a fight. > > >Q. Isa Daudpota Email: daudpota@sdnpk.undp.org >P. O. Box 3099, >Islamabad 44000, PAKISTAN. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:14:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28084 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:14:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA16335; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:06:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16140 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:05:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr4-150-56.intrepid.net [209.190.150.56]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04107 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:06:29 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:04:24 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 Michael - Are these tests for organic matter levels, trace minerals, etc -or- are they test for heavy metal contamination, etc (or 'both')? -Allan >Dear Allan, > > Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative >Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants >and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley >and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA >around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. >Michael > >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >> I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER >> CERTIFICATION. ( >> You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a >> definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on >> the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, >> maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't >> come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? >> >> >> >> Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with >> particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is >> not necessarily ORGANIC. >> >> AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations >> which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil >> test reports from independent labs.) >> >> >> Thanks for finding time for this >> >> -Allan Balliett >> moderator, BD NOW! >> >> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:16:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28133 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:16:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA16833; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:08:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16489 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:07:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr4-150-56.intrepid.net [209.190.150.56]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04539 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:08:26 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:08:49 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Maria Thun Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 121 Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most thankful for a hint. Ferdinand Vondruska From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:37:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28714 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:37:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA21255; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:30:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from webc02.globecomm.net (www2.iname.net [165.251.12.22]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20991 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:28:55 -0500 (EST) From: pamdetray@email.com Received: by webc02.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) id PAA23180 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <990204152923E5.14744@webc02.globecomm.net> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:29:23 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: study circle Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 Hello all, my computer is dead but my efforts to comprehend the Ag Course are still very much alive. However, I don't have much access to email until I replace the old Mac. I hope to have as much of the lecture course as possible under my belt before I start planting this spring. Don't know when I'll have a new computer. I would be curious to hear from other study circle participants--how are you coming with your individual study? Cheers, Pam DeTray ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:43:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28819 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:43:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA22530; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd112.hotmail.com [207.82.252.176]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA21799 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:32:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10263 invoked by uid 0); 4 Feb 1999 20:26:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990204202613.10262.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:26:13 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Maria Thun Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:26:13 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 Dear Ferdinand, Try "Working With the Land and the Constellations". Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:46:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28847 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:46:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA22394; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:35:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA21756 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:32:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay019124126.acay.com.au [203.19.124.126]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA31782 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 04:50:17 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 07:34:31 +1100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: Re: Maria Thun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 On 05-Feb-99, you wrote: > Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most > thankful for a hint. > > Ferdinand Vondruska > Regards ' Work on the Land and the Constellations', this is one book by Maria Thun that I know of. Regards Margaret from Australia From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 15:58:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA29056 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA25311; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:51:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd108.hotmail.com [207.82.252.172]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA24909 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:49:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 16258 invoked by uid 0); 4 Feb 1999 20:50:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19990204205010.16257.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:50:10 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: study circle Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:50:10 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 Dear Pam, I don't know if I'm studing that much at the moment..(e.g.) have you ever been to a Church where everyone has their head in the Hymnal? Even though they use the same liturgical setting nearly every Sunday... no one remembers it. Why? Their not using their Heart.... Once the heart enters into the matter, a person begins to experiance. With the experiance we observe. Put another way. Observe the experiance. After our first year of the use of preparations, I want to observe the experiance. I want to see what has occurred, look at what change is taking place. Its wonderful and the entity(of the farm) is beginning to assume its' own character. Is that something else that Steiner meant, you know, when he said "the period of crystalization"? Mabey its the time when the farm entity begins to communicate with the rest of the environment. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 16:13:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA29361 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:13:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA28288; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:05:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27796 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:03:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp50.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.150]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA20073 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:03:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <00ce01be5081$a612b640$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Maria Thun Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:02:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 Ferdy, Pam!!! So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. You have both been in my thoughts. Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with us...just let her rip! (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) :-) Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 17:04:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01710 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:04:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA07573; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:53:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06609 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:50:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.225] (pm3mbr2-66-150.intrepid.net [206.102.66.150]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26315 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:51:19 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:51:45 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Honeybee Quote Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 127 Not giving up with the lack of enthusiasm about defining Demeter Certification, I'm looking for your favorite quote about THE HONEYBEE. One from RS would be most welcomed, but what else do you have? -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 20:37:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA05316 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:37:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA09021; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:27:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08904 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:26:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.26]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:36:15 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:27:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Message-ID: <6D40ADD8B6AEDEAC8525670F000657B1.0007FE458525670F@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 128 Dear Friends of Bd-Now, <> I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their collective hubris. Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was unclear? Respectfully, Jane Sherry (Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 21:01:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06047 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:01:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA11975; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from aristotle.net (aristotle.net [204.233.139.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11667 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:50:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [199.240.82.231] (pmppp231.aristotle.net [199.240.82.231]) by aristotle.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13043 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:52:01 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:52:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6D40ADD8B6AEDEAC8525670F000657B1.0007FE458525670F@webcity> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: vinnie Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 129 Bravo!! Jane Sherry. How articulate and clear! Vinnie at Elixir Farm >Dear Friends of Bd-Now, > ><intentions -- spoken and unspoken--of the transnational corporations >steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, >and such? > >That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the >general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they >can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel >that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. >It is murky beyond comfort.">> > >I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. >However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations >is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not >the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their >collective hubris. > >Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control >LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! >Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is >unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce >diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? > >The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone >would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very >greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can >not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. > >Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational >corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- >fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic >manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was >unclear? > >Respectfully, >Jane Sherry >(Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 21:35:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06771 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:35:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16154; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:26:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15941 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:24:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-2-p135.wolfenet.com [206.159.28.135]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01231 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:25:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BA5405.4702F6B1@seattle2000.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:14:59 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) References: <00ce01be5081$a612b640$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 130 Yes, I am here lurking... Thanks for asking Julie. And Ferdy, if you want, you can just lurk too. (I hate that word but I have found that by just reading and discarding email and not feeling obligated to answer those not addressed to me personally, I have more freedom! And we will all be getting busier as the winter rolls away... Martin Nyberg GreenMan Farm "Julie M." wrote: > Ferdy, Pam!!! > > So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking > about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. > You have both been in my thoughts. > > Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your > departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with > us...just let her rip! > > (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) > > :-) > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 21:55:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA07019 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:55:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA18670; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:47:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18427 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0113.direct.ca ([204.244.83.13] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 108bHy-000694-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:46:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36BA5B3E.4381F2CD@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:45:18 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) References: <00ce01be5081$a612b640$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36BA5405.4702F6B1@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 Dear Martin, Just returned from the stable. Having been away for seven weeks is a long, long time. We have put about 6 - 7 inches of bird's eye gravel into the cow pen and it works wonders. No more foot problems, and they love to rest on the sand (it is about a 4mm dia.sand). So, anybody who has cows that he has to keep in a small(er) pen, let me assure you that bird's eye is the answer. We can easily collect the manure. The urin is running away. And another benefit: In spring we put BD Preparations into the sand (the cows are then on the field and not in the pen) and we can harvest the most amazing crops such as tomatoes, cukes, cabbage, zucchinis (you have never seen such fine zucchinis!) and a lot of vegetable that is high feeder. Of course, the Preps (compost preps) will break down the manure in the sand relatively quickly and the roots will go all the way down into the underground. I just wanted to add this for those who have a problem with keeping cows penned in. We keep 5 cows (more on the way). As I said: the hooves are clean, the fur is shining and the eyes are bright and happy. And the small calf is full of zest and vigour. What else: yea! I realized that the snow melted right away when falling on the sand. On concrete, on the soil and on the hard gravel it is still laying about 4 inches thick. So, sand must reflect the warmth of the air and let some air get inbetween snow and sand so that it will melt faster. Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Yes, I am here lurking... Thanks for asking Julie. And Ferdy, if you want, > you can just lurk too. (I hate that word but I have found that by just reading > and discarding email and not feeling obligated to answer those not addressed to > me personally, I have more freedom! And we will all be getting busier as the > winter rolls away... > Martin Nyberg > GreenMan Farm > > "Julie M." wrote: > > > Ferdy, Pam!!! > > > > So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking > > about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. > > You have both been in my thoughts. > > > > Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your > > departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with > > us...just let her rip! > > > > (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) > > > > :-) > > > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 22:01:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07405 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:01:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA19331; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:52:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18984 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:50:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-15.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.47]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id SAA12670 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:51:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902050251.SAA12670@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:45:41 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 Allan: >From a Demeter trifold brochure: "The Demeter Association, Inc. is a national, independent, non-profit, non-tax-exempt corporation committed to assuring that Biodynamic foods in the United States are grown and processed with the highest integrity and care. The standards for evaluation are used worldwide." Also: "The Demeter Associations stands as your assurance that food properly bearing the Demeter Association symbols has been grown by Biodynamic agricultural methods and has met specific standards within these methods. Synthetic fertilizers, insecticides, fungicides, herbicides, hormones, additives and irradiation are not used on farms and processed foods certified by the Demeter Association." and Allan: IMO there is no non-organic agriculture which is sustainable; nor is much of organic methodology sustainable. For a definition of sustainabiligy in agriculture, think of the Chinese methods detailed in _Farmers of Forth Centuries_ by F H King, writing in the first decade of the present century. Woody At 12:42 PM 2/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER >CERTIFICATION. ( >You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a >definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on >the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, >maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't >come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > > > >Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with >particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is >not necessarily ORGANIC. > >AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations >which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil >test reports from independent labs.) > > >Thanks for finding time for this > >-Allan Balliett >moderator, BD NOW! > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 4 23:10:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA09832 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:10:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA26968; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:58:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net (eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net [207.109.240.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA26592 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:54:38 -0500 (EST) From: jrei@uswest.net Received: (qmail 19983 invoked by alias); 5 Feb 1999 03:55:59 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-bdnow@envirolink.org@fixme Received: (qmail 19969 invoked by uid 0); 5 Feb 1999 03:55:58 -0000 Received: from dialupb210.eugn.uswest.net (HELO pop.eugn.uswest.net) (209.180.176.210) by eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 1999 03:55:58 -0000 Message-ID: <36BA6AF2.C8879542@pop.eugn.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:52:19 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" , "OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU" Subject: American Seed Trade Association Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 133 Just returned from the Vegetable and Flower Seed Conference of the American Seed Trade Association and thought some of you would be interested in some of the discussions. First of all I would like to thank those of you who provided comments for me to share with the All-American Selections Committee concerning the inclusion of GM (genetically modified) varieties into the selection's judging. It was decided that GM varieties would not be allowed into the competition because the AAS lacked the resources to explain GM varieties to the general public. During the conference I had a chance to talk with representatives from nearly all of the major seed producers from around the world. The topic of GM varieties was a major point of discussion both on a one-to-one basis as well as in committee meetings. Two points soon became clear. The first was that some companies were genuinely surprised by the attitude of disappointment and disapproval by the home gardener. Many truly see GM varieties as the savior of mankind. The second was the fact that most companies are taking the lack of regulation, mainly in the area of labeling, by the federal government as an open door invitation to increase the amount of GM material introduced into the food supplies. The feeling is that as long as GM grains are allowed to be blended into the supplies of non -GM grains, the American public will be 'stelthed' into submission. As most of you know the home garden market is but a drop in the bucket when it comes to the total amount of vegetable seed used in the US. More and more garden seed companies are faced with taking a variety that was really bred for the commercial market or to develop a breeding and seed production program which is expensive and time consuming. That leaves many at the mercy of the large international seed companies that are racing towards GO varieties as if their life depended on it. Many of these companies have the stated objective of rapidly moving towards GM varieties for there entire lineup. It was also interesting to hear most of the companies say that the current terminator technology was impractical due to the necessity of treating the seed with tetracycline in order to activate the gene, but that most had ongoing programs to develop similar technologies that was less complicated. Many of the senior company representatives are convinced that there must be ways to definitively protect their varieties from unauthorized use. It was however, somewhat reassuring that when I explained that Territorial Seed Company would not trial or market any variety that is developed by GM, a number of seed companies indicated that they would assist us in whatever way possible to continue to offer home garden varieties as well as providing us with discontinued germplasm with which we could use to continue to expand our own seed production. Hope this spurs some additional discussion about the state of GMO's in the US today. Joel Reiten Territorial Seed Company From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 00:34:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA10995 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA04587; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:23:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA02258 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:01:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay019124100.acay.com.au [203.19.124.100]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA13995 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:18:19 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: BDnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 14:26:52 +1100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: mad cow disease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 134 Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one has sent in any relevant info as yet. Could someone out there give me info to pass on? Thank you Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 05:44:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA14499 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:44:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA25527; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:36:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA25374 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:33:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 108ibK-0004PP-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:35:06 +0000 Message-ID: <36BA0412.D3DF5822@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:33:22 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Maria Thun References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 135 Any book? 'Work on the Land and the Constellations' Maria Thun, translation 1990 ISBN 0 906155 30 X Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most > thankful for a hint. > > Ferdinand Vondruska From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 05:45:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA14513 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:45:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA25476; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:35:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA25376 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:33:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 108ibN-0004Qr-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:35:10 +0000 Message-ID: <36BAC024.2B59DE91@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:55:48 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: mad cow disease References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 136 We are still getting stories every now and again in the UK of people with CJD, which may be the result of eating infected beef. This has some very unpleasant symptoms and ultimately leads to death. This week there was a story in the paper that a cow in France had been found with BSE (Bovine SE) and the whole herd had to be put down (though I wasn't sure if that meant the herd in France or the herd in Britain where the cow came from - maybe both). The policy remains in place that one infected cow means deth to a complete herd. The UK is still trying to get the European Union to lift the ban on trading British beef. Alison Margaret Kemp wrote: > Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is > known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a > list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one > has sent in any relevant info as yet. > Could someone out there give me info to pass on? > Thank you > Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 08:31:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA15858 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA03476; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:23:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03076 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:18:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <36606-11402>; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:05 -0400 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:04 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds In-Reply-To: <6D40ADD8B6AEDEAC8525670F000657B1.0007FE458525670F@webcity> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 137 Yeah Jane... Couldn't have said it better myself.. The Nova Scotia Organic Growers Assoc. (NSOGA) is now in the process of publishing a Bio-Tech special edition newsletter...This will include a list of biodynamic/organic seed companies.... Ecology & evironmental groups will be assisting in helping this publication reaches the consumer.... Anyone interested in obtaining a copy contact: Janet Wallace Email: jwallace@istar.ca --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Dear Friends of Bd-Now, > > < intentions -- spoken and unspoken--of the transnational corporations > steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, > and such? > > That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the > general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they > can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel > that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. > It is murky beyond comfort.">> > > I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. > However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations > is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not > the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their > collective hubris. > > Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control > LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! > Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is > unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce > diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? > > The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone > would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very > greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can > not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. > > Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational > corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- > fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic > manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was > unclear? > > Respectfully, > Jane Sherry > (Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 08:32:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA15868 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:32:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA03538; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:23:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03139 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:18:50 -0500 (EST) From: WCavender@aol.com Received: from WCavender@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 5AVEa05501 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:19:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3138a9c8.36baefde@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:19:26 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Send Email to help stop the Terminator Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 138 http://www.rafi.org/usda.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 14:56:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28968 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:55:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24509; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:47:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.42]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12156 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:19:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.4.112]) by mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990205182010.ETBT9283@default>; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:20:10 +0000 Message-ID: <36B7A4BF.6DC5@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:22:07 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net, hwashen@trace.net.tw Subject: Re: seeds References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 139 Dear Bill and Listfolk, The most complete gathering of links and contact information for open-pollinated, Heirloom seed sources I have yet found is at: http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople. Best Regards, Linda Ray Free as a community service-- The above link is posted on the US Organic Agriculture Message Board: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > to the list. I'd like to get this list together - - through everyone's > input - - and up on the www.igg.com/bdnow because there is a LOT of > interest reliable REAL seed. -AB> > > Hi, > > Can you refer me to sources of non-hybrid, open pollenating seeds? I am > working with farmers in Taiwan using biodynamic methods to transition from > chemical to organic farming. > > Thank you, > > Bill Watson > Eden (T'ien Lin) Partners > > hwashen@trace.net.tw From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 14:56:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28977 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:56:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24625; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:48:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12713 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:23:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-3.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.35]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id KAA20812 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:24:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902051824.KAA20812@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 11:16:45 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: mad cow disease In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 140 Margaret: http://www.cyber-dyne. com/~tom/mad_cow_disease.html Woody At 02:26 PM 2/5/99 +1100, you wrote: >Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is >known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a >list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one >has sent in any relevant info as yet. >Could someone out there give me info to pass on? >Thank you >Margaret > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 14:56:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28996 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:56:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24857; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:49:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21700 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:29:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA25201 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:33:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:33:21 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 141 Hi Allan, I waited until I contacted Sarah Davidson of BCARA, who heads the certification section. Yes, they require soil tests on total organics, minerals, trace minerals for new applicants for each of the first three years, then once in every three years afterwards. If there was a history of pesticide use, then, at least for the first year, they have to also do a pesticide screen, or, select for certain pesticides if a detailed history is known. In theory, COABC requires one in three years testing for the above, but, apparently not all of the 8 certification gov't sponsored agencies all comply or enforce, but, BCARA does. Michael On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Michael - Are these tests for organic matter levels, trace minerals, etc > -or- are they test for heavy metal contamination, etc (or 'both')? -Allan > > > >Dear Allan, > > > > Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative > >Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants > >and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley > >and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA > >around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. > >Michael > > > >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > >> I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER > >> CERTIFICATION. ( > >> You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a > >> definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on > >> the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, > >> maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't > >> come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > >> > >> > >> > >> Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with > >> particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is > >> not necessarily ORGANIC. > >> > >> AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations > >> which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil > >> test reports from independent labs.) > >> > >> > >> Thanks for finding time for this > >> > >> -Allan Balliett > >> moderator, BD NOW! > >> > >> > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 15:00:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA29166 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:00:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24739; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:48:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from www4.iname.net (www4.iname.net [165.251.12.24]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA16330 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:50:47 -0500 (EST) From: pamdetray@email.com Received: by www4.iname.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) id NAA07230 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9902051352109L.01686@www4.iname.net> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:52:10 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: STUDY L3 Sulfur Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 142 Every time I read this lecture, a question always hovers. In the past, I've used sulfur to balance the alkalinity of my soil, before the effects of all my composting here started to kick in. Is soil alkaline partly because of a lack of sulfur? Weren't the creative fingers moistened enough when the high desert here was created? Thanks, Pam DeTray ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 15:31:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA29930 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:31:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA01278; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:23:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from m24.boston.juno.com (m24.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.188]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA00506 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:19:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from barrylia@juno.com) by m24.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2QJPJQ6; Fri, 05 Feb 1999 15:20:04 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:56:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Message-ID: <19990205.122205.-4073599.0.barrylia@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,5-10,13,16,23,31,35,41,52-58 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Barry D Lia Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 143 On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:42:27 -0500 Intergalactic Garage writes: [snip] >Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with particular emphasis on that agriculture which is >sustainable but which is not necessarily ORGANIC. [snip] >-Allan Balliett >moderator, BD NOW! Allan, I don't have a "succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture'" to proffer, but I thought I'd offer the following food for thought on the topic above. You may already be familiar with Gene Logsdon's writings? His THE CONTRARY FARMER represents an "agriculture which is sustainable but which is not necessarily ORGANIC." I'm thinking in particular of passages starting on page 161: "Oh, so you're not a certified organic grower, visitors sometimes snort, knowing that I have been an outspoken supporter of organic farming methods for thirty years. Nope, I'm not. For thirty years I've also said that a _moderate_ amount of chemical fertilizer is not harmful to anything and is sometimes the most economical way to maintain fertility. I thought that the organic fraternity would eventualy realize this." Keep in mind that his concern here is NOT with nitrogen--he manures and rotates pasture--but with P & K: "And to say that natural raw phosphate or potash derivatives are okay for sustainable agriculture and the fertilizers refined from them are anathema is an argument for which little proof exists outside the minds of organic purists. Besides, think of the increased air pollution, ozone build-up, transportation costs, and highway accidents that would occur if all of agriculture decided to rely only on far greater tonnages of the unrefined material. "I figure I am just as competent and justified in this situation to declare that a little chemical fertilizer is okay in good farming as the NOSB evidently feels justified and competent in saying that antibiotics, which I have not had to use, are sometimes okay in organic farming." Logsdon later quotes a friend of his: "'If the National Organic Standards Board insists on barring all synthetic fertilizers, most farmers trying hard to achieve a sustainable agriculture that works will simply drop out of the organic movement. I don't care to be certified organic anyway; I just want to run an ecologically sane farm on the least amount of inputs as possible.'" His moderated non-purist attutude is also reflected the bottom of page 204: "Eventually the good farmer--following a rotation of corn, oats, wheat, hay, and pasture and then back to corn--will keep his fields relatively weed-free without herbicides. If a special weed problem does occur, then a small spot-spraying of herbicide to the problem area can be very effective, but only under the mantle of proper rotations and cultivation. I am sorry to have to disagree with the organic purists who liken herbicide applications to human drug use and say that it only takes a spoonful to start an addiction." [Recall that such "small spot-spraying of herbicide to the problem area" was indeed a moderate attitude advocated even by Rachel Carson in SILENT SPRING.] _____________________________________________________________ Barry Lia, Seattle WA ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 15:33:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00023 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:33:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA01187; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:23:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902052023.PAA01187@envirolink.org> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:49:23 EST Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Biodynamic Farming and Gardening To: Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Subject: BDNOW digest 86 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--__ListProc__NextPart__918244163459122081" Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 144 ----__ListProc__NextPart__918244163459122081 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" BDNOW Digest 86 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Intergalactic Garage 2) Re: Harvey Lisle etc. by Intergalactic Garage 3) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by Michael Roboz 4) RE: Johnny's GE Seeds by Martha Wells 5) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Martha Wells 6) Garden Supply online by Martha Wells 7) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by cvinson@mindspring.com 8) Re: OFF: OFMA GE Policy by Jane Sherry/wcdev/US 9) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by Intergalactic Garage 10) RE: Johnny's GE Seeds by Intergalactic Garage 11) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Intergalactic Garage 12) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by cvinson@mindspring.com 13) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Intergalactic Garage 14) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Martha Wells 15) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by "Steven McFadden" 16) BD SEEDS RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Woody Wodraska 17) Re: Allan Chadwick by "Gwenda Robb" 18) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Intergalactic Garage 19) Hunting for the deer bladder by Intergalactic Garage 20) RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources (and on down the line) by Martha Wells 21) GE Seeds by "Maritza de Oliveira and Angela Medeiros" 22) Re: Cosmic Pipes, BD Stirring Tank, Sonic Spray by Barry Carter 23) Re: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources by Anton Elbers 24) BD SEEDS by Woody Wodraska 25) "Seeds of Discord" by Intergalactic Garage 26) Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION by Intergalactic Garage 27) Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION by Michael Roboz 28) OFF:Mixed Signals by "Michael Smith" 29) Web Based Activism by Barry Carter 30) Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION by Intergalactic Garage 31) Maria Thun by Intergalactic Garage 32) study circle by pamdetray@email.com 33) Re: Maria Thun by Margaret Kemp 34) Re: Maria Thun by "Michael Smith" 35) Re: study circle by "Michael Smith" 36) Re: Maria Thun by "Julie M." 37) Honeybee Quote by Intergalactic Garage 38) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by Jane Sherry/wcdev/US 39) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by vinnie 40) Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) by Martin Nyberg 41) Re: Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) by Ferdinand Vondruska 42) Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION by Woody Wodraska 43) American Seed Trade Association by jrei@uswest.net 44) mad cow disease by Margaret Kemp 45) Re: mad cow disease by ALISON EADES 46) Re: Maria Thun by ALISON EADES 47) Re: Johnny's GE Seeds by Joan Macdonald 48) Send Email to help stop the Terminator by WCavender@aol.com 49) Re: seeds by Linda Ray 50) Re: mad cow disease by Woody Wodraska 51) STUDY L3 Sulfur by pamdetray@email.com 52) Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION by Michael Roboz ----__ListProc__NextPart__918244163459122081 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="--__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="BDNOW__digest_86" ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:04:36 -0500 To: BDNOW@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's an un-updated list from Crissy Bowman of OFMA of potentially Organic open-pollinated seed . We can use it as a starting point. (yes, this list needs proof-reading, some culling, and some preening...anyone up for that??) ABUNDANT LIFE. Membership on a sliding scale rate of $5 to $15 per year. Abundant Life Seed Foundation, P.O. Box 772, Port Townsend, Washington 98368. AGE-OLD GARDEN SUPPLY. Natural gardening Products for your organic garden. PO. Box 1556, Boulder, Colorado 80306. AMES’ ORCHARD & NURSERY. R 5, Box 194, Fayetteville, Arkansas 72701. ARBICO. Sustainable Environmental Alternatives for Organic Growers. PO. Box 4247 CRB. Tucson, Arizona 85738-1247. 602-825-9785 or 800-827-2847. In Canada: MANBICO. Box 22. Group 15 RRIC, Winnipeg. Manitoba, Canada R3C 2E4. 204 339-9488, 800-665-2494. BEAR CREEK NURSERY. PO. Box 411, Bear Creek Road. Northport, Washington 991S7. BOZEMAN BIO-TECH. 1612 Gold Avenue, PO. Box 3146. Bozeman. Montana 59772. Products for insect protection. W. ATLEE BURPEE CO. 300 Park Ave., Warminster, Pennsylvania 18991. Phone 215-674-4915. 80s888-1447. BUTTERBROOKE FARMS coo Tom Butterworth. 78 Barry Road, Oxford. Connecticut 06483. SASE required for information. CORNS. Contact Carl L and Karen D Barnes, Route 1, Box 32. Turpin, Oklahoma 13950. $1.00 for price list and information letter. DOWN ON THE FARM SEED. P.O. Box 184. Hirarn. Ohio 44234 ECO SOURCE. PO. B-ox I656, Sebastopol, California 9S473. FEDCO SEEDS. Unued seeds, orgasmic. 52 Mayflower Hil Drive. Waterville, Maine 04901. HENRY FIELD’S-SEED & NURSERY CO. s l 5 North Burnett. Shenandoah, Iowa 51602. I.P.M. LABORATORIES, INC. P.O. Box 300, Locke, NY 13092-0300. 315-497-3129, Biological Pest Management INDIANA BOTANIC GARDENS. RO. Box 5, Hammond Indiana 46325. 219-947- 4040. THE INVISIBLE GARDENERS. 29169 Heathercliff Road, #216-408. Malibu, California 90265-4146. 213-457-6658. JACKSON & PERKINS. PO Box 1028. Medford. Oregon 97501. 8062924769. 1. W. JUNG QUALITY SEED COMPANY. 335 South High Street, Randolph, Wisconsin S3957. AM LEONARD, INC. PO. Box 816, Pique Ohio 45356-0816. Catalog $1.00. LIBERTY SEED COMPANY. PO. Box 806, New Philadelphia, Ohio 44663. 800-541-6022. LYING OFF THE LAND. P.O. Box 2131, Melbourne, Florida 3290Z-2131. A Subtropic Newsletter with Seed Exchange. LIVING TREE CENTER. P.O. Box 10082, Berkeley, California 94709 Historic apple. and pear trees, and other fruit trees and plants. 510-420-1440. MARKET FARM IMPLEMENT. Specializing in Vegetable Crop Machinery. RD 2, Box 206, Friedens, Pennsylvania 15541. McCLURE & ZIMMERMAN. Quality Flowerbulb Brokers. 108 West Winnebago, P.O. Box 368. Friesland, Wisconsin :53935. 414-326-4220. , . -, . .. . . at - . MILLER NURSERIES. Planting guide & catalog free. West Lake Road, Canandaigua New York 14424. NATIVE AMERICAN SEED. 3400 Long Prairie Road. Flower Mound; Texas 75028. 214-539-0534. NATIVE SEEDS/SEARCH. 2509 North Campbell Avenue #325. Tucson. Arizona PLANT FINDERS OF AMERICA. 532 Beau--Mont Ct. Fort Wright, Kentucky 41011. Free infomration Plants of the Southwest 18]2 Second 9t Santa Pe, New Mexico 87S01. Cab P°WELL G+RDENS /Ensas Cit~Z-s got cal Cie • Has many flo ver seed SouneeS R I 816 566 2213ngsville. Missourj 64061 PRAtRI} MOON NURSERY. Price S2.00. t07 43S2 1362163- Winona~ .MI~n RINGER- 99S9 Valley View Road, Eden Prurie MinneSotaNN346358~.goo-654-1o47. C SPBERRY NURSERy & RESouRcE OG. 19060 Manning Trail N. Mad 6°ln2s43 Cr°iv7 Minnesota 55047 972I ROCKRSH GAP HEALTH PRODUCTS. P.O Box 348. Ivy, Virginia 2294S. Hard-to-find ealth & beauty products. 800-768-7587. RONNIGERiS SEED POTATOES. Star Route. Moyie Spnngs, Idaho 83845. Prepsud or ders must be received no later than May I. Write catalog, S2.00 refundable. RENCE NURSERIES. Northern Cli yate Fruit and Nul TreeS RD 2 Po SAVE OUR ECO-SYSTEItfS (SOS). 407 Blair Boulevard. Eugene, Oregon 97402. EzSogy products and gifts. SEED S~VERS }XCI[~NGE Route 3, Box 239 Decorab~k~wa421ol.Free-~nation. SEIDS B>, Idabo City Stage.’ Boi#. Idaho 706* alog S3.00. - ~- j _ . . . . SEEDS OF C+GE 1364 Rufina˘Circle #5 Sof 438-8o8o ev MeXicO - 87504 Ph. S c T 1t 2( V. de Hc pk Ro; 800 WC Sou 474 SHEPHERD’S GARDEN SEEDS. 30 Iren Street, Torrington. Connecticut 0679( 203482-3638. SINDELAR SEEDS. Route 1. Box 109-C Algonaf Iowa 50SI I or their distributors: Bin Soils, R 3, Box 197A, Ogden lowa 50212 or Su per Gro of lowa, P.O. Box l26. Aplington. low 50604. D SONOMA ANTIOUE APPLE NURSER 439S Westside Road, Healdsburg, Cslifomi. asaR ,_ . ._. . SOURCEPOINT ORGANIC SEEDS. 409’ M Road, Paonia, Colorado 81428. CataloE S2.50. ^ 0 SOUTHERN EXPOSURE SEED EX CHANGE. P.O. Box l58. North Garden. Vir ginia 22959. Catalog S3.00. STOKES SEEDS, INC. Box 548, Buffalo New York 14240. Phone 41S6884300. SUNSHINE ORGANIC GARDENS RE SOURCE CENTERZ P.O. Box 5161, Wood land Park, Co!orado 80866. SYNERGY SEEDS. P.O. Box 323, Orleans Califomia 95556. THOMPSON & MORGAN. P.O. Box 1308 lackson. New Jersey 08527. Phon. 201 -363-2225. VERMONT BEAN SEED COMPANY. Garden Lane, Fair HavelL Vennont 05743. WAYSIDE GARDENS. I Garden Lane Hodges. Souffi Carolina 29695-0001. The Complete Garden Catalog. WILDSEED FARMS, INC. 1101 Campo Rosa Road, P.O. Box 308. Eagle Lalu Texas 77434 806848-0078. WORM’S WAY GARDEN SUPPLY. 3151 South Highway 446. Bloomington, Indiana 4740I-9111. Seymour’ 8 Selected Seeds Dept 41, PO Box 1346 Sussex, VA 23884-0346 Vermont Bean Seed co. 71 Garden Ln; Fair Haven, VT 05743 Park Seed co. Cokesbury Rd. PO Box 46 Greenwood, SC 29648-0046 (800)845-3369 Burpee Seed Company PO Box 5114 Warminster, PA 18974-4818 (800)888-1447 Abundant Life Seed Foundation PO Box 772 Port Townsend, WA- 98368 (206)385-5660 De Giorvi Seed co 6011 N St. Omaha, NE 68117 (402)731-3901 Garden City Seeds 1324 Red Crow Rd. Victor, MT 59875 (406)961-4837 Nichols Garden Nursery 1190 N. Pacific Highway Albany, OR 97321 (503)-928-9280 Ronniger’s Seed Potatoes Star Route 80 Moyie Springs, ID 83845 Shepard’s Garden Seeds 30 Irene St. Torrinqton, CT 06793 (408)335-6910 Tomato Growers,Supply PO Box 2237 (813)7681119 Worm’s Way 3151 S. Highway 446 Bloomington, IS 47401 (800)274-9676 Brittingham Plant Farms Dept OG25 - PO Box 2538 n-37 Salisbury, MD 21802 t (410)749-5153 1 - Totally Tomatoes Dept 22, PO Box 1626 Augusta, GA 30903 R.H. Shunway Seedsman PO Box 1-NC Graniteville SC 29829 (803)663-977I Peaceable Kingdom School PO Box 2209 Grass Valley, CA 95945 (916)272-47-69 Bountiful Gardens 18001 Shafer Ranch Rd Willits, CA 95490 (707)459-6410 The Cooks Garden PO Box 53528 Londonderry, VT 05148 (802)824-3400 Filaree Productions RR 2 Box 162 Okanogan, WA 98840 (509)422-6940 Johnny’s Selected Seeds 310 Foss Hill Rd - DeDt 202 Albion, ME 04910-973l (207)437-4301 Pinetree Garden Seeds PO Box 300 Route 100 New Gloucester, ME 04260 (207)926-3400 Seeds of Change PO Box 15700 Santa Fe, NM 87506 (505)983-8956 Stokes Seeds Inc Box 548 Buffalo, NY 14240 (905)688-4300 Gardener’s Supply Companv Dept COG15 - l-28 Intervale Rd Burlington, VT 05401-2850 (802)863-1700 Peaceful Valley Farm Supply PO Box 2209 BOG Grass Vallev, CA 95945 (916)272-47B9 J.W. Jung Seed co. r;’ : Box A3645 Randolph, WI 53957 ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:07:49 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Harvey Lisle etc. >My wife was enthusiastic about sprouting earlier this year (less so >now that winter is upon us) - all the usual seeds, beans etc - but we've >not yet tried wheatgrass. Anne Wigmore's book was so helpful that I >tried to call up her website(s): a couple of search items referred only >to health resorts, but I was unable to raise the Anne Wigmore Institute >- kept getting weird error messages including, on one occasion, This >Site is Forbidden! What has she done to annoy Bill Gates so ? Is it >just my server (Cable & Wireless) or have other subscribers also had >problems ? Tony N-S. Can you share some URL's with us, Tony? One thing that has already come to fore in this recent look into the 'sprouting scene': many people lack the knowledge, energy, and conficence to sow and reap what themselves, even if it's just a 7 day season on a windowsill flat. For that reason, yes, there are a lot of 'wheat grass juice with rejuvelac chaser' health clubs all over the world (but particularly in the warmer climates.) -Allan Balliett =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:18:38 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Allan, RE: your letter and replies from Rob Johnston. I also wrote an email letter to Johnny's and got a reply that he will be replying to me soon. He never did. Michael ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <01BE4F67.D792CAE0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Johnny's GE Seeds Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is there a listing of 'acceptable' seed sources? I currently buy from = Pinetree Garden and Fedco, both fairly Northern companies. Would like to = find companies more within my climate (tx). SSE is great but buying a = garden full of seed one packet at a time from a member here and a mem = there is expensive and time consuming. What is SSE's take on the recent information we've been handed? I = understand that Mars candy company owned a big chunk of Seeds Of Change = and recently bought the company totally. What changes do you expect from = that? Is this true? thanks martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgIRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAFgAAAFJFOiBKb2hubnkncyBHRSBTZWVkcwDBBgEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgAD AAsAGQABAAMAAwEBIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwALABQAKgADACcBAQmAAQAhAAAANjdGRkYwOTQ1MkJC RDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEA+QYBA5AGAHwFAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAA AAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AADBfSGaT74BHgBwAAEAAAAWAAAAUkU6IEpv aG5ueSdzIEdFIFNlZWRzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb5PmiF9lPD/aLtSEdKxEQDA8CloIQAAHgAe DAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAABmbHlsb0B0eGN5YmVyLmNvbQAAAAMABhC7GR3m AwAHEMoBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJU1RIRVJFQUxJU1RJTkdPRkFDQ0VQVEFCTEVTRUVEU09VUkNF Uz9JQ1VSUkVOVExZQlVZRlJPTVBJTkVUUkVFR0FSREVOQU5ERkVEQ08sQk9USEZBSVJMWU5PUlRI RVJOQ09NAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAYwIAAF8CAAD5AgAATFpGdc+GLMR3AAoBAwH3IAKkA+MCAGOCaArA c2V0MCAHE00CgH0KgAjIIDsJbzLMNTUCgAqBdWMAUAsDBmMAQQtgbmcxMDNSMwxgbG4CIGULpiAS SQQgdGgEkGUgYRQgbAQAdAuAZyBvyGYgJwDQY2UFMAGg8GxlJyAPsAmAF2AIYZEW0HM/IBUwIGMI cIMJcAIwbHkgYnUZADkDUiBQC4APwAnRIEfXCxEJ8BXAbhegRgmABaC6LBkQbxVwGVALcHIY8d5O CREVgQOgBaBtCrADANEHkC4gVwhgbBegFfDyaxWwdG8ZUAuAF6Act/4gBGAVoQPwFXALgB8gGQBW YxXwAMB0FbAoDNApox1ABgBTRSAEACAJwbcgYBkRIcJ5FjIV0GcaVL5mFFADIBZxF3MUgSAKsP5j HeAFQCGxFdAWIAeAGVTvFdAHgAbQBJAgFYQawSWTYxVlIVFleHAJ8ACQdk8mVCTzBaAAgHVtFjEu ewqiCoBXD4AFQCFRIREn3RVRYR3hAiAVYiAJcBbQqwIwIUBuAhByIFFpKwH+dxdAKBEl4BqBD4Aa wAmA+xgwGGB1LXEPoAGQKFIp4n5ND5EYcBqxIAEcwxkAb+Z3FJAmkmJpFlAPcC3wXmsWYgZgCYAE IE8WgEM9LVFnJlQrdBjyCGBnaL8FQCsyL6YeEAGQI0B5HUGvKeIPcTIxBCBkHiB5CGD9J5NjBUAZ Yy6iLbEVUiFR+xnwClA/KXQuoTEQD0Apg3sAwBxBYSl0ObgLMBXwM+42AUATgAFAcANgIHA2gAsp dBBxADyAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzCg6RiHmU++AUAACDCg6RiHmU++AQsA AIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUA AAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAL4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAA AAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAA AAAAAwANNP03AAC5Jw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.D792CAE0-- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <01BE4F67.F9FBB100@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OOPS, answered my question in the next download, THANKS! [Martha Wells] ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgARAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAJQAAAFJFOiBSZWxpYWJsZSBTZWVkIGFuZCBTdXBwbHkgU291cmNlcwC2 DAEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgADAAsAGQA7AAMAPQEBIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwALABkAHAADAB4BAQmAAQAh AAAANkJGRkYwOTQ1MkJCRDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEABAcBA5AGANwDAAAhAAAACwACAAEA AAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AABw90OaT74BHgBw AAEAAAAlAAAAUkU6IFJlbGlhYmxlIFNlZWQgYW5kIFN1cHBseSBTb3VyY2VzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAA FgAAAAG+T5pD7pTw/2y7UhHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAS AAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJlci5jb20AAAADAAYQl8WFcgMABxA6AAAAHgAIEAEAAAA7AAAAT09QUyxB TlNXRVJFRE1ZUVVFU1RJT05JTlRIRU5FWFRET1dOTE9BRCxUSEFOS1NNQVJUSEFXRUxMUwAAAgEJ EAEAAADfAAAA2wAAABwBAABMWkZ1Gw+x43cACgEDAfcgAqQD4wIAY4JoCsBzZXQwIAcThwKDAFAO 9nBycTIP9iZ9CoAIyCA7CW8yNWY1AoAKgXVjAFALA2MDAEELYG5nMTAzMykMYGxuAiBlC6YgT6BP UFMsIABxdwSQQQmAIG15IHEKUHMUdGkCICALgCB0aBRlIBYgeAVAZG93Em4JAGFkFxBUSEHwTktT IQqiCoQKgQwxGCBbTQrAGLBhIFfgZWxsc10DMBUQChFNAUBpAUARQG90BZB0cRCEMTYgCuMKgBIB AAEesAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwIFNmMZpPvgFAAAgwIFNmMZpPvgELAACA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAA AAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAA AwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2 hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4A Q4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAA AAMADTT9NwAAw6M= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F67.FA04D8C0-- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <01BE4F69.05D8B080@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: Garden Supply online Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:33:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.gardeners.com/actionupdates.html Gardeners Supply has a fairly informative page up on terminator technology and other bioengineering seed at the url above. Even though it's a catalog supply, overall they put out a lot of good information onsite. martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih4RAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAFQAAAEdhcmRlbiBTdXBwbHkgb25saW5lAKMHAQWAAwAOAAAAzwcCAAMA CwAhAB0AAwAnAQEggAMADgAAAM8HAgADAAsAHwAyAAMAOgEBCYABACEAAAA3MkZGRjA5NDUyQkJE MjExQjExMTAwQzBGMDI5NjgyMQD1BgEDkAYAoAQAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAA AAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAwEfLT5tPvgEeAHAAAQAAABUAAABHYXJkZW4g U3VwcGx5IG9ubGluZQAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvk+bT8uU8P9zu1IR0rERAMDwKWghAAAeAB4M AQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEgAAAGZseWxvQHR4Y3liZXIuY29tAAAAAwAGECriuWgD AAcQ3QAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhUVFA6Ly9XV1dHQVJERU5FUlNDT00vQUNUSU9OVVBEQVRFU0hU TUxHQVJERU5FUlNTVVBQTFlIQVNBRkFJUkxZSU5GT1JNQVRJVkVQQUdFVVBPTlRFUk1JTkFUT1JU RUNITk8AAAAAAgEJEAEAAACJAQAAhQEAAO0BAABMWkZ1UNYqtXcACgEDAfcgAqQD4wIAY4JoCsBz ZXQwIAcThwKDAFAO9nBycTIP9iZ9CoAIyCA7CW8yNWY1AoAKgXVjAFALA2MDAEELYG5nMTAzMycM YAlQC7UgaAJAcDrILy93FwAuZwsRCfBJBJBzLgWgbS8A0HSCaQIgdXBkYXQHkFouFpBtCVAV4G4C IGX3CqIKhBn2RxdWBgAYgAtQinkWgGEEIGEgZgtwbnIbsQuAAhByAMAYQHa0ZSAKsGcdUBiAIAIg /iAYwBzwC4AYsAWxGMAPcFsZcAkAZxvAAHBkHeB0smgEkCBiGFAJ8GcLgPcJ4AUQFXAgD7AJgBwQ BUC/H9EdsBxwHBAG4B1ALhm6lkUdQB4BaAhgZ2gcoPR0JxwCYxiwB0AfQCEA7RuDLB3gHUByB0AD IB/R+RvAcHUFQAhgBUAcIAkA4SZRZiBnbwRwHKgd8f8CIACQGMAiZQDAACAPgBm1XxUQAUARQB/A BZB0EIQxFjYZtBIBACvAAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMECQWxWbT74BQAAI MECQWxWbT74BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGF AAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAAB AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAJuQ= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F69.05D8B080-- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: cvinson@mindspring.com To: Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: <001801be4f9c$752f9e20$4ae145cf@hcv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some additions to list. These are companies/organizations I buy from that have stated policies re organic and untreated seed: 1. Sand Hill Preservation Center 1878 230th Street Calamus, Iowa 52729 2. Fox Hollow Seed Company, (Pennsylvania) 3. Heirloom Seed Company, Elizabeth, PA 4. Garden State Heirloom Seed Society 5. Bountiful Gardens (Calif.) 6. Seeds of Texas (College Station, Texas) 7. Redwood City (California) There are lots more. Will send addresses if someone is going to keep a list. Catharine/Atlanta -------------------------- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:03:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: OFMA GE Policy Message-ID: <4AAEBA60B9A6B5998525670D00631EF8.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> trying to see if anyone's awake out here eh, Allan? What still no crushing mob to sign onto the Tori Amos list? Happy Candlemas/Ground Hog/St.Brigid day (yesterday)!! JS ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:01:59 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds >Dear Allan, > > RE: your letter and replies from Rob Johnston. > > I also wrote an email letter to Johnny's and got a reply that he will be >replying to me soon. He never did. Michael Then I guess I should be grateful for what I received, shouldn't I? :-) -Allan igg@igg.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:10:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Johnny's GE Seeds >Is there a listing of 'acceptable' seed sources? I currently buy from >Pinetree Garden and Fedco, both fairly Northern companies. Would like to >find companies more within my climate (tx). SSE is great but buying a >garden full of seed one packet at a time from a member here and a mem >there is expensive and time consuming. FEDCO, I understand, will remain a 'safe' seedsource. I do not know about Pinetree, but it is often recommended. SSE, well, here's where 'drifting,' etc becomes a great concern, IMHO. >What is SSE's take on the recent information we've been handed? I >understand that Mars candy company owned a big chunk of Seeds Of Change >and recently bought the company totally. What changes do you expect from >that? Is this true? >thanks >martha Martha - Steven Badger, president of Seeds of Change (SoC), is a member of the family that owns the Mars candy company. SoC hasn't been making a lot of money recently, as you might imagine, but both their goals and the expense of their outreach programs have remained high. For this reason, the principals at SoC found the 'take over' by M&M to be just another method of meeting their goals. Their goals, however, are not monetary, their goals revolve around promoting biodiversity why making small scale organic growing a practical endeavor. Their recent entrance into the organic food market is one way they hope to more effectively achieve their goals. Apparently NOONE IS marketing products with as high of content of small farm produced organic ingredients as theirs (everything is certified except the salt and the water and they are working on finding certified sources for both of these.) Founding members Howard Shapiro and Al Kapuler still 'run' SoC. As far as I know, no candy salespeople are making decisions at SoC. I still trust SoC, but my opinion may be biased: they just donated a 50lb bag of Austrian Winter Peas to my gardening project. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:12:29 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. -Allan igg@igg.com >Some additions to list. These are companies/organizations I buy from that >have stated policies re organic and untreated seed: > >1. Sand Hill Preservation Center > 1878 230th Street > Calamus, Iowa 52729 >2. Fox Hollow Seed Company, (Pennsylvania) >3. Heirloom Seed Company, Elizabeth, PA >4. Garden State Heirloom Seed Society >5. Bountiful Gardens (Calif.) >6. Seeds of Texas (College Station, Texas) >7. Redwood City (California) > >There are lots more. Will send addresses if someone is going to keep a list. > >Catharine/Atlanta >-------------------------- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: cvinson@mindspring.com To: Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:13:12 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4fa9$3e047760$862256d1@hcv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allan wrote: For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. ----------- Will send addresses in next couple of days. One thing that has to be taken into consideration is that very, very few seed companies (or organizations composed of seed savers) grow all its own seed. Even SSE is dependent on its members' word that the seed they list as having available through SSE is grown without pesticides, herbicides, chemical treatments, etc. Making a quick scan of the list of companies in the list that was posted I know of at least one company that does grow its own seed....and literally poisons the ground in which its grown IMHO. This company also advocates *heavy* use of herbicides to prepare the soil to receive its seeds! This is irresponsible stewardship in my mind and I will not buy seed from them. Yet, this same company says it has a policy again GE seed. Does that make the company "kosher"? Not in my opinion. What I am trying to say is that the issues are interwoven and complex. I am disappointed to see that Johnny's *appears* to be leaving the door open to carrying GE products in the future, but at the same time, I believe Johnny's is being straightforward in its response. And the company raises a good point that the "policing" of who is selling GE versus who isn't selling GE products is nigh onto impossible. Catharine ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:56:21 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources >Allan wrote: > >For now, I'll keep the list, Catharine. Please do send addresses. > >I should stress for newcomers to the list that buying from a BIODYNAMIC >seed company is a certain way to assure non-GE seeds. > >----------- >Will send addresses in next couple of days. > >One thing that has to be taken into consideration is that very, very few >seed companies (or organizations composed of seed savers) grow all its own >seed. Even SSE is dependent on its members' word that the seed they list as >having available through SSE is grown without pesticides, herbicides, >chemical treatments, etc. Making a quick scan of the list of companies in >the list that was posted I know of at least one company that does grow its >own seed....and literally poisons the ground in which its grown IMHO. This >company also advocates *heavy* use of herbicides to prepare the soil to >receive its seeds! This is irresponsible stewardship in my mind and I will >not buy seed from them. Yet, this same company says it has a policy again GE >seed. Does that make the company "kosher"? Not in my opinion. > >What I am trying to say is that the issues are interwoven and complex. I am >disappointed to see that Johnny's *appears* to be leaving the door open to >carrying GE products in the future, but at the same time, I believe Johnny's >is being straightforward in its response. And the company raises a good >point that the "policing" of who is selling GE versus who isn't selling GE >products is nigh onto impossible. > >Catharine Dear Catharine - Pardon my bluntness: there is no merit in being straightforward about supporting GE. It doesn't matter one whit who else is selling GE seeds when we discuss Johnny's support of gene tech. What's important is that we've identified this Trojan Horse; we now need to mark it with a big black flag or something and continue to search out these other weak spots in seed sourcing. Why so coy about the seed company that "and literally poisons the ground"? The purpose of the prelim list is for everyone to report their knowledge and experience with the names on the list. Johnny's was on that list until I took them off (they go on another list.) Please tell us who is using inappropriate techniques to produce seed. The Johnny's thing is v. scarey. Everywhere I look behind the scenes in Sustainable Ag, I see big envelopes of Johnny's seeds. I would hope that Rob Johnston would just back off from GE. Since it looks like he won't (or can't!) we need to make certain that all growers and organic food customers know that the company has expressed an openess for GE. (Better to do this now than to wait until they DO start selling GE seed. I mean, without being informed by someone who knows better, how would most growers every know that Johnny's was carrying GE seeds? Because they read the little icons? As one who spent most the last 10 years thinking that Johnny's is a fully-Organic seedsupplier, I can't rely on everyone to educate themselves. Everyone wants to trust companies like Johnny's. -Allan igg@igg.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:07:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd really like the company listed in College Station Texas, practically in my back yard! And, I think Catherine implied that at least Johnny's, by being up front, has given us the choice of whether to buy from them or not. martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig0UAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAJQAAAFJFOiBSZWxpYWJsZSBTZWVkIGFuZCBTdXBwbHkgU291cmNlcwC2 DAEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgADAA4ABwAMAAMA/wABIIADAA4AAADPBwIAAwAOAAIABgADAPQAAQmAAQAh AAAAQ0ZGRkYwOTQ1MkJCRDIxMUIxMTEwMEMwRjAyOTY4MjEAFQcBA5AGAHgEAAAhAAAACwACAAEA AAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AABYHsmwT74BHgBw AAEAAAAlAAAAUkU6IFJlbGlhYmxlIFNlZWQgYW5kIFN1cHBseSBTb3VyY2VzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAA FgAAAAG+T7DJHpTw/9C7UhHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAS AAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJlci5jb20AAAADAAYQHjntYgMABxC5AAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASURSRUFM TFlMSUtFVEhFQ09NUEFOWUxJU1RFRElOQ09MTEVHRVNUQVRJT05URVhBUyxQUkFDVElDQUxMWUlO TVlCQUNLWUFSREFORCxJVEhJTktDQVRIRVJJTkVJTVBMSUVEVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAE0BAABJAQAA iwEAAExaRnXXgebmdwAKAQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxNNAoB9CoAIyCA7CW8yzDU1AoAK gXVjAFALAwZjAEELYG5nMTAz0jMMYGxuAiBlC6cKsWEKgEknZCAJcAdAbAB5IGxpa2UgdFZoFnAF oG0KsG4WInNqdAmAIAuAIAhQFgBlSmcWcFMBkHRpAiAgAFRleGFzLCBwtnIA0BigYxXzF8FtFiCi YgDQayB5CxEhFTToQW5kGUBJFoELgBqw/kMYkBagBRAUkBewFvAWQPcXkRaQGJAgHZEYIBkgBUBQ Sm9obhcgJxkxYgUaYWULgGcgdXAgHwNRAjAZQA+ABCBnaXbPCfAfcAQgFpNobxmwFnBwb2Ygdxag HHIWgG/9GnB1FiADUhaCIvAFsRRw/HQuCuMKhAqAAMAAIA+ACxU0EHEAJaAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMA ERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwAOYPE7BPvgFAAAgwAOYPE7BPvgELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4 LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAztU= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F7E.7F2BC0C0-- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <199902032035.PAA08034@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 15:13:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I, too, have profound misgivings about GE seeds and all the rest. Many years ago I met a sparkling-eyed elder of the Huichol people in the Sierra Madre Mountains of west Mexico. Don Jose Matsuwa -- then 106 years old -- told me that he had used a philosophical key to keep himself in balance throughout his many long years of hard work in hot fields growing corn and then at night around the village fire as the people's respected ceremonialist and healer (with his wife Dona Josefa). Don Jose's key: "Watch your intention, then pay attention." So one must ask, what do we know of the intentions -- spoken and unspoken -- of the transnational corporations steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, and such? That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. It is murky beyond comfort. Don Jose said said the second part of the key was to "pay attention." See what the results are. On that basis you can make a sound evaluation of your materials and practices. And on that basis, I'd like another 25 years minimum to pay careful attention to the genetic (Uranian-Aquarian) impulse. I wholeheartedly recommend this relatively brief era of consideration to all GE scientists, businesspeople, farmers, and consumers -- and also specifically to Johnny's Seeds. We are part of the Sacred Hoop of Life, and in a full-life relationship with all parts of it. This decade -- over and over -- respected spiritual elders of this Turtle Island continent have warned that if we continue to think and act as if we are Masters and Dominators of the natural world, our relationship with the Earth will fail. So it is. In the way of the Huichol -- and many other Native nations -- the careful trial of such new cultural and agricultural elements -- would run for Seven Generations. In this way the whole of the Sacred Hoop is respected and made strong. Megwiich, Steven M. P.S. If someone has time and energy and wants to forward this Down East to Johnny's, you're welcome to do it. Much obliged. I gotta go. "You never change anything by fighting the existing. To change something, build a new model and make the existing obsolete." - Buckminster Fuller: ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <199902032058.MAA06957@ns2.vphos.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:53:32 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: BD SEEDS RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To the List: For practical purposes the backyard BD grower can skirt the GE issue entirely, as Allan suggested, by patronizing BD seed sources. Aurora Farm, Turtle Tree Seeds, Sharon Carson, and the soon-to-be operating [I hope] BD seed exchange, cutely named the Sowing Circle and [I hope again] enjoying some support from the BDA. For commercial growers and CSA growers, it may be, however, that the above sources will not be able to supply the quantities needed. Again: Turtle Tree Seeds Copake Village Copake, NY 12516 Aurora Biodynamic Farm 3492 Phillips Road Creston, B C V0B 1G2 aurora@kootenay.com www.kootenay.com/~aurora (250) 428-4404 Sharon Carson RT 2 Box 277 Delmar DE 19940 (302) 846-2571 BD Sowing Circle Amy Bohn 433 Williams Creek Road Oakville, WA 98568 (360) 273-8702 amybohn@olywa.net Woody ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <008601be4fb9$9f450fc0$1e6d6ccb@default> From: "Gwenda Robb" To: Subject: Re: Allan Chadwick Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:10:25 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a delightful book - Enchanted garden-Alan Chadwick's organic method of gardening, by Tom Cuthbertson. Published in America as Alan Chadwick's Enchanted garden.1978 The charming and unusual content is presented in a story format as from the perspective of a rabbit (the aussie farmers will love that!) out of print but well worth chasing up. Warm regards Gwenda Hi Allan! > >Are there any pearls of wisdom that you can share with us about the >conference you attended? I am trying to remember the connection between the >Jeavons (biointensive gardening/farming) and the biodynamic methods...and >the differences too. Wasn't there some mention on this awhile back? Could >you elaborate on this a bit? > >Julie - Alan Chadwick taught biodynamics at Santa Cruz and a few other gardens in the 70's. Although he had worked with Rudolf Steiner as a child, the milieu at Santa Cruz (a Univeristy which contained prominent faculty members who were demonstrably hostile to even the IDEA of non-chemical farming) made it prudent to trim back the tools he would use to invoke fertility there. (He did not use the preps in America, but he did discuss them in private with some of his students.) His immense knowledge of horticulture, coupled with a thorough understanding of composting and cultivation methods, allowed him to create a truly remarkable abundance ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:40:19 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources >I'd really like the company listed in College Station Texas, practically >in my back yard! >And, I think Catherine implied that at least Johnny's, by being up front, >has given us the choice of whether to buy from them or not. > >martha That's the secondary issue here, martha, to make certain that every grower of Organic food be aware that Johnny's is open to 'offering' GE seed and to make certain that every consumer of Organic food be aware that their grower could be purchasing seeds from a source that sells GE seed. Here in Shepherdstown we have a man who sells at farmer's market every Sunday. Years ago, an ambitious extension agent encouraged him to get organic certification because 'Organic produce brings more money.' He became a certified organic grower for a few years and honked his horn about it quite loudly. Ultimately, however, he discovered two things: the first was that he didn't have the sort of intention/attention that is required to grow food organically; the second was that the majority of people in this county are not willing to pay more for organic produce. In a very short time, since neither the productivity nor the profit was there for him, he moved out of organics and dropped his certification. He wasn't as noisey about this, however. To this day, most people will tell you "Buy from ol' So-and-So, he's Organic." But he aint Organic. He ain't even close to Organic. A similar situation occurs with the Fresh Fields and related food chains. Only a portion of the products and produce they carry is organic and yet repeatedly I run into people who believe that what they are buying there is "100% Organic." The truth is, you have to scurtinize the labeling of EVERYTHING to make certain that your getting something that is up to your personal standards. As always, a Safe Food supply requires eternal vigilance. In this case, I think it will be to everyone's benefit to make sure that everyone we know who grows or eats is aware that the formerly Organic farmering mainstay, Johnny's Selected Seeds, has made a public statment that they are open to GE seeds in the near future. (And, more to the point: because of how their business is structured, they may actually have no choice in the matter....) -Allan ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:42:50 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Hunting for the deer bladder Dr Steiner indicated that we ought to take a (Rotwild) red deer (male) bladder (stag bladder) into which we are to put dry, moistened Yarrows and, in spring, hang this bladder (as full as possible) underneath the overhang of our roof or in a place (shadowy) where it cannot be attacked by birds, mice and other rodents. Well, it is not my intention to discuss this part of the preparation making process but rather in the procurement of the deer bladder. And here, my friends, I really hit rock bottom. I think I reported to you how difficult it is to get high quality cow parts (mesentery, horns, small intestine etc.). It is much more difficult to get a good stag bladder. Now, imagine, in the days when Dr. Steiner gave his lectures (1924) many or most farms were surrounded by or included forests and fields in which a great variety of animals could live such as foxes, rabbits, hair, deer, squirrels and so forth. Farmers were familiar with the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly (life) rhythms of all these animals. The deer does not simply walk into the field(s) at any time of the day or night. It has a very special rhythm - like the sea. Coming and going. Observing. Eating brefly, regurgitating for hours. Picking herbs here, a bit of a bud there - here a leaf and there some grass. Moving, smelling, pissing, standing, sleeping - in constant motion. And so, I went a hunting. Gun, red jacket, boots, very thick underwear (it was minus 20 degrees Celsius (Finland). You cannot simply go out there and shoot a deer. You have to know what you are going for. You are constantly on the alert. You walk. YOu stand. You look. You listen. You wait - sometimes for a few hours, somewhere in a bush or in a ditch. You have become the shadow of the deer. When he moves, you move too. When he stands, you watch. And then, you crawl - just a bit and wait again. And nothing, absolutely nothing is happening. For hours. You may go home - and so have I - with a feeling of vast soul expansion. You see white, you see stars, you are outside yourselves. The tension inside you is there - you know that, at any time, you may have to shoot. To kill. To cut. To saw. To drain blood. To take out the innards and to carry a dead animal. You are standing at the threshhold of life and death. You are a guardian. You ought to be wise....! Deer bladders are very, very difficult to obtain. I went hunting for three days and I've walked many, many miles. I've spent hours on end in a tiny hut, at temperatures way below freezing - equipped with night vision, a candle by my side. Clad in army fatigue.......................... And now, I am of the opinion that I am on the right track. We must potentize our preparations. We must make highest quality preparations. Preparations that contain the wisdom of those who care for the environment and not simply stag bladders of deer that come from road kill or from hunting parties. We cannot let anybody else do the hunting for us. That simply is not fair and does not support the BD process. With the hunting goes the care for the forest, the observations of the trees and the plants. With the hunting goes the careful study of all the animals that live in our forest(s). They have rhythms. Deer come and go at intervals of two to two and a half hours. They reappear in the same area in intervals of half a day. They do not run around like wild dogs. They follow etheric streams. They are light gatherers. Highly sensitive. Very attentive, knowledgeable, fast and as shy as shadows. The deer is a great teacher. He teaches us in great depth how the forest and the land must be integrated. Without a wholesome integration of forest and farm-land: no proper farming. Without a proper farming no wholesome food. Without wholesome food a mankind that cannot think properly. Yet, we are slowly approaching this awful abyss: fewer and fewer people know how to think. Ferdinand ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <01BE4F9E.FBF7CA20@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources (and on down the line) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:59:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE4F9E.FC00F1E0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE4F9E.FC00F1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Allan: I understand what you're saying, also. Can't sit on the fence on this = one, but I'm trying! When I have extra to market, I know our local = produce stand will buy everything I can haul in. He has a room carries = only organic produce, herbs and fruit. HOWEVER, the last time I asked = about selling extra last year, he commented that he was beginning to = grow his own (this is a huge company, Scarmado's in College Station Tx). = He said that without constant vigilance on his, the marketer's part, he = couldn't be certain that even though the certification says OG, the = grower could have filled out his bins with ordinary produce to round out = the offer. since OG does command more money, even buying produce and = reoffering it would make a profit if that were the case.=20 (I had hauled my certifications for him to put on file, and he said, OH, = I don't need yours, I found a worm in your broccoli.) Uh, thanks, I = think! I STILL SAY, I never understood why people who do nothing to their crops = in the way of poisons, chemicals etc, constantly have to prove it. When = are the poisoneers going to have to supply information on the crap they = use? Off topic Y2K and hybrid seed. Interesting note in this day of the = Terminator news. The Mining Company recently issued a few pages that = say, ok, the lights will be on next year. BUT, the food industry could = be hit hard, as most major cities only have reserves for a 72 hour = period. What happens is hybrid seed isn't as viable as OP seed, and = pretty much needs to be resupplied annually. (Thank you, Monsanto.) If there is a break in that chain of events, serious shortages could = occur. I'm not clapping in glee here, but maybe this is the eye-opener = that people are going to need.=20 part of the reason OG is still not mainstream is the cost factor. It's = too costly for corporate ag America to grow corn by the tonnage in = organically managed systems. Wait till they find out it's too costly NOT = to. 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What if the etheric of our plants will be strong/pure/dense/healthy enough to whitstand cross pollination with GE plants ? I am suggesting combating this technological terrorism with a spiritual approach. Angela Medeiros ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990203182520.00918500@pop.igc.apc.org> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:25:20 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Re: Cosmic Pipes, BD Stirring Tank, Sonic Spray Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Lloyd, At 05:55 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi igg. Thanks for all of the good advice. I didn't have time to reply >last week. You mentioned a cosmic pipe that used a drawing of a printed >circuit, a photo of an Aztec crystal skull and a bobby pin. I think >SECRETS OF THE SOIL said that too. I'd sure like to know the details of >how that is put in the pipe. > You said prayer may work just as well as any other subtle energy >method. Do you know how prayer can be tested scientifically by us email >subscribers? I don't have faith that my prayers would work as well as >many people's prayers. Do I have to bolster my faith? Have you seen >www.Neil.Slade.net? He talks about research that shows benefits of >collective prayer. I was wondering if subscribers might like to ask >other subscribers for prayers on a particular concern maybe at a >particular time. Art Bell seemed to get very good results with that for >bringing rain to needy areas, etc. What I'd like others to help me pray >for at 6 pm Feb. 6 or any time is clarity on how to be successful with >our organic farming this year. Prayer is generally placed in the realm of religion. In order for science to acknowledge the existence and effectiveness of prayer it first must discover a physical mechanism whereby non-physical (or spirit) energy and information can be brought into the physical realm. Rudolph Steiner's theories and observations would lend evidence to support such a discovery but Steiner wrote in the early part of this century before quantum theory became well accepted. The ORMUS theory postulates that there is a state of matter which can move from the physical to the non-physical and back. It is like having atoms with one leg in the non-physical and two legs in the physical. Under certain conditions these atoms can be induced to have two legs in the non-physical and one in the physical, in which case, they disappear and loose all weight. This phenomena is graphed at: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/Patents/figur012.gif According to ORMUS theory, the atoms in the powder which is being weighed are dropping to another space-time sheet. There are strong indications that the ORMUS elements are involved with the biological cell components which make decisions and perform computations. A couple of scientists have postulated that these cell components make decisions by throwing a problem into the infinite realm of all possible universes and retrieve the solution almost instantaneously. A more elaborate discussion of this idea is available at: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/ORMUS/ormus.htm If this is so, then we may have identified the mechanism which connects the physical and non-physical realms. While the mere knowledge of the existence of such a connecting mechanism does not identify the properties of the non-physical realm, it does provide a starting place for making the scientific case for the existence of mind independent of matter. > Have you seen any of these sites on ormus elements? >http://209.17.143.141/ormus/ORMUS/ormus2.htm, >http://www.u.arizona.edu/~hameroff/penrose1.html, >http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/science/ORMUS/whatisit.htm > They say the ormus elements are responsible for biological growth and >nerve functions, that they are superconducting and paramagnetic. One of >the sites says how to separate ormus elements from others, but then they >have to be protected from sunlight, etc. I thought it might be better to >leave them in their source material. Volcanic rock and limestone are >supposed to have a lot of ormus. So I'm thinking of stirring the ground >rockdust in water like a BD prep, stirring and reversing, and applying >it to the soil. Do you know anything about that? The process of conversion from the m-state (ORMUS state) to metal is facilitated by exposure to sunlight. Though sunlight does not complete this conversion, it is one component of the process. For this reason it is recommended that the pure ORMUS materials not be exposed to direct sunlight. Our working hypothesis in this regard is that the ORMUS elements, being superconductors, can store a considerable amount of energy. When this energy storage capacity is exceeded, the Meissner field, which helps to maintain these elements in the ORMUS state, collapses. On the occasion of this collapse the ORMUS elements may convert to energy and disappear in a flash of light or they may simply drop to the metallic state. Since all of the atoms in a pile of m-state material would not be exposed to sunlight evenly this Meissner collapse would not proceed evenly and so one could expect a variation in the state of the material depending on where it was in the pile. There is a great deal we don't know about these materials. Since concentrated ORMUS elements can "disappear in a flash of light", we felt it was prudent to suggest that they be kept from direct exposure to light. There does seem to be a concentration or purity component to this phenomena. It also seems to relate more to the m-state rhodium than to the other ORMUS elements. Though the ORMUS elements are abundant in any salt flat, one does not see these salt flats disappearing in a flash of light as can happen with the purified ORMUS materials. Alchemists claim that salt acts as a sort of keeper for the alchemical materials. We have noticed that this is true of the ORMUS materials as well. The sodium in salt, in particular seem to provide a "comfy space" for the ORMUS atoms to "hang out". Generally, unbound ORMUS elements in water will levitate out of the water as the water moves across the Earth's magnetic field. It is fairly clear that all of the ORMUS elements in water do not levitate out but some of them do. I believe that we will find that there are ways to use biodynamic and paramagnetic theories to create conditions favorable to the concentration of the ORMUS elements in the soil and to reduce their loss to leaching. This entire field of inquiry is new to modern science, though it may not be new historically. Any work done in this field, at this time, is virtually guaranteed to be cutting edge science. There is startling evidence that the ORMUS materials were known in ancient times. Sir Laurence Gardner, an internationally known sovereign and chivalric genealogist for the royal families of Europe has found amazing evidence among the ancient records of the royal families that these materials were known in ancient Egypt, Persia and Israel. There is a transcription of one of Gardner's recent lectures on this subject at: http://www.icom.net/~nexus/starfire1.html In this lecture Gardner suggests that Moses, working at an Egyptian temple/laboratory on Mount Serâbît in the Sinai peninsula, turned the golden calf into a white powder of ORMUS gold. He also suggests that this is the material which was the focus of the sages and kings of the time. He links these materials to the Grail, manna, the Philosopher's Stone, soma, and many other ancient things. I am fairly certain that as we look into these ancient connections we will find many that relate to the use of these materials in agriculture. > The chapter of SECRETS OF THE SOIL on Flanagan's studies said the >best shape for stirring is ovoid with a width to length ratio of 1 to >the sq. rt. of 2, i.e. 1 to 1.414. That produces the strongest vortex. >Does anyone use an ovoid spray tank? Joe and I are thinking of making >one of fiberglass. I also tho't it might be fine to just cut a spherical >tank in half and add about a foot or so long cylindrical midsection. >Joe's looking to find a spherical tank. But I suppose a cylindrical tank >might be good enuf. What do you think? Vortex action seems to be related to the ORMUS materials in several ways. The physicist Tony Smith associates the Compton Radius Vortex to the psychic subatomic particle observations of Theosophists Charles Leadbeater and Annie Besant. He uses their illustration of the Anu for his illustration of the Compton Radius Vortex. See: http://tony.ai/Sidharth.htm Several physicists have proposed that sonoluminescence is a form of fusion energy. Sonoluminescence occurs in water which is vibrated with high frequency sound. One company claims that they have a water heating device which uses mechanically created vortexes to produce over-unity amounts of hot water. You can read about this at: http://www.mv.com/ipusers/zeropoint/IEHTML/FEATURE/FSETS/popeset.html I believe that this device uses resonance coupling to the ORMUS materials in the water to extract energy from non-physical realms. > We're thinking of using mechanical stirring for the BD preps, etc. >The book said other farmers do that. Do you think that works as well as >stirring by hand? Joe tho't of hooking several pumps together on the PTO >and having a hose from each one going into the tank. At the end of the >hose would be a tee and a valve to make the water flow one way, then the >other. I don't know how we'd control the valve yet. We assume that this >would create a vortex in the tank as quickly as would a mechanical >stirring device and that the reversing of the flow to make chaos would >be easier. He was thinking of using about 1 and a half inch diameter >hose and tees, maybe four of them in all. That'd give quite a bit of >cross-sectional area, like a paddle would. Would you or anyone else have >experience along these lines? > The book also talked about "singing to clay" or something like that. >It mentioned a farmer who would sing a note into a bucket or barrel >while stirring and reversing water before applying to soil or crops, I >think. Do you know if that's helpful? And how the note is determined? >You said the sonic bloom type of spraying isn't needed bekuz the stomata >of the leaves are open anyway in the mornings [and evenings?]. But the >book implied that the high pitch sounds are helpful to the mitochondria >of the plant cells where energy is made. It said the mitochondria are >tuned to about 25 cycles per second and that bird song of about 5000 cps >are a harmonic of that. Also, if birdsong in the mornings and evenings >are what open the stomata, a lot of our ground is not very near to trees >where birds usually sit, so we tho't we might need to use the high pitch >anyway. Or do the stomata stay open then even without the birdsongs? And >is there a cheap source of the gibberillin that you know of? Are there >plants that have it in concentrated form, or whatever? A magnetic vortex can be applied to water and this seems to energize the water. I suspect that the m-state elements are somewhat energized and that this extra energy translates into a stronger Meissner field which facilitates intercellular communication in living organisms which take the water in. Of course, any time you stir or shake anything it is being moved in relation to the Earth's magnetic field. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36B90886.2D002B03@monad.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 21:40:23 -0500 From: Anton Elbers MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Reliable Seed and Supply Sources Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I am new to this list and have only been readin the post's on GE seeds > and Johnny's for the last few days. I am concerned that the tone of this > discussion is so onesided. I read the letter that Rob Johnston wrote in > answer to the questions posed and although the positions he took might not > be agreeable to everyone on this list, I don't remember him saying that he > is ready or convinced at this time to sell or would try to sell GE seeds > without informing people, something that Allan seemed to be implying with > his story in the earlier post. > I truly believe that rather than starting a boycott our energy's are > better put towards finding ways to improve communication between the various > people and groups involved in finding ways to create a sustainable way of > life on this planet. > I don't believe that anyone of us has the answers to all the questions > facing us and it will take all of us working together to find the answers. -- Anton Elbers Orchard Hill Farm HC 63 box 91B East Alstead, N.H 03602 Aren't you nebber coming home? ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <199902040252.SAA26779@ns2.vphos.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:32:02 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: BD SEEDS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Listfolk: In my listing of BD seed sources I inadvertently left off Elixer Farm, specialists in Chinese Medicinals.  Elixer Farm Botanicals, LLC Brixey, MO 65618 (417) 261-2393 www.elixerfarm.com Woody ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:37:38 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: "Seeds of Discord" Seeds of Discord Monsanto's Gene Police Raise Alarm On Farmers' Rights, Rural Tradition By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, February 3, 1999; Page A01 BRUNO, Saskatchewan-On a cold January morning in central Canada, Percy Schmeiser looks over his frozen fields. "Here's where all the trouble began," he says, pointing to where private investigators last year arrived uninvited and snipped samples of his crops for DNA tests. Schmeiser, 68, has been farming these fertile acres all his life, growing canola for the valuable oil in its seeds. And as farmers have done for thousands of years, he has saved some seeds from each year's harvest to replant his fields the following season. Now, he says, "for doing what I've always done," he is being sued by agribusiness giant Monsanto Co. in a landmark "seed piracy" case. The outcome could influence how much control biotechnology companies will have over the world's food supply in the next millennium, and is highlighting a major source of friction as the genetic revolution spills into the world of agriculture. Schmeiser is one of hundreds of farmers in the United States and Canada who stand accused by Monsanto of replanting the company's patented, gene-altered seeds in violation of a three-year-old company rule requiring that farmers buy the seeds fresh every year. He vehemently denies having bought Monsanto's seeds, saying pollen or seeds must have blown onto his farm, possibly from a neighbor's land. It's the company, Schmeiser says, that ought to be rebuked for its pattern of "harassment." Besides sending Pinkerton detectives into farmers' fields, the company sponsors a toll-free "tip line" to help farmers blow the whistle on their neighbors and has placed radio ads broadcasting the names of noncompliant growers caught planting the company's genes. Critics say those tactics are fraying the social fabric that holds farming communities together. ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:42:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER CERTIFICATION. ( You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is not necessarily ORGANIC. AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil test reports from independent labs.) Thanks for finding time for this -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:08:11 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Allan, Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. Michael On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER > CERTIFICATION. ( > You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a > definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on > the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, > maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't > come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > > > > Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with > particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is > not necessarily ORGANIC. > > AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations > which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil > test reports from independent labs.) > > > Thanks for finding time for this > > -Allan Balliett > moderator, BD NOW! > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <19990204191205.10312.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF:Mixed Signals Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:12:02 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To any and all, Sometimes the source of signals is easily mis-understood when I am working in nature. In biodynamics, I believe we are looking at the way the head underground works in contrast to the way in the atmosphere above. I did not fully comprehend this until reading some text about the pioneering done in early radio. In the early days of radio the ground was considered the most effective collector and transmittor of energy and signals. Those signals in the ground are strongest around peculiar geologic formations. I am unsure of the particular formation in which they are strongest in but mabey I will be able to understand more in the future through study, but NOT in the CONVENTIONAL or what we call modern. For this I am grateful to people like Dr. Steiner for there are parallels in pioneering radio of principals associated with the ground and in what Dr. Steiner gave in his Ag Lectures. I don't know actually what happened during my great-grandfathers epoch but the course of history through civilization seems to have embraced principals of opposite nature than that of biodynamics or pioneering radio. It is possible that a conspiratorial, greed based society would want to posses these concepts for their own. It is also possible that through scholarship in the university system at that time that these errors were perpetuated -- creating new myths. But not in getting too far away from the theme of this mailing, I do realize that geologics play a role in the signal strength of the ground. Some areas of the world that have peculiar formations seem to amplify signals more readily and some areas are dead. The area I live in, I do believe has a definite signature. It is so peculiar, for I am able to think a thing at a particular locale and then later on have someone either write or speak this same thing I was earlier thinking. This has happened enumerable times. Other things that have happened as well has to do with the place that I raise fish at. That area is prone to periodic flooding. I am constantly doing things to try to dicourage flooding without altering its serenity. Many times I have thought that I should do this or that and then do the thing. It works! No trial or error! Strange. An even stranger thing is that one would tend to think that heavy rains and flooding go together. I have found this to be totally untrue in an area that has a deep geologic & biodynamic foundation. The more I work with bd in that area the more responsive it becomes. So sometimes, I have found that the response that biodynamic nature is making that I have imagined that some human was watching me and mocking me by for example, not allowing flooding to occur. Then as I was reading things about pioneering radio, I realized. Yes, Yes, Yes. Steiner was most correct. A farm or garden can have its own unique personality. It IS AN ENTITY! You help it, It helps you. There is interaction between the soil and man or woman. It can be such a strong relationship, that the earth itself can take over and do the things that we are unable to due for lack of time or some other lack. Anyway, I am just beginning to realize what this Steiner fellow was refering to. It is one thing to understand something through intelligence and another to understand through personal experiance. It can be literal and it can be spiritual at the same time. I don't believe the two can be seperate because of movement between the two .... the marriage between heaven and earth has brought forth man and woman. By the way, if I have offended any on this list by my short sightedness of experiance, please accept my apology friends. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990204113731.0086d250@pop.igc.apc.org> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:37:31 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Web Based Activism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Friends, Several recent notes to this list have mentioned the possiblity of web based activism. I have been watching web based action campaigns for several years and have come up with some guidelines for successful email based action alerts. I am including some examples of well done and not so well done calls for action. I just got a note from a Pakistani newspaper writer calling for an effort to stop government censorship in Pakistan. This note did not include some of the most important items that should be included in such a call for action. Here is my note to this writer: Dear Isa, The kind of problem you mention below can be effectively countered by internet activists and I wish you luck. The most effective calls for action include the following information: 1. A clear and fairly brief description of the problem. 2. A direct personal example of the problem. 3. Information on where to go for more information (preferrably a web site). (If such is site is inadvisable with a Pakistan address it could be set up with a sympathizer in another country.) 4. An example letter which suggests comments or, 5. A list of suggested actions. For example: A. Take the 60-day No Aspartame Test and send us your case history. Mission Possible International 5950-H State Bridge Rd. #215, Duluth, GA 30097 USA B. Tell your doctor and all of your friends! 6. A list of addresses of people to contact with our objections. Here is an example of several of these concepts in action: PLEASE SEND LETTERS TODAY!!!! Here's what you should say, but in your own words. Tell these captains of industry that Boise Cascade is making a large and expensive mistake. The opposition to the project is widespread and diverse, from Chile's tourism industry to Chile's salmon industry to the Mayor of Puerto Montt to environmental groups from around the world. Chile's temperate rainforests are priceless, too valuable to be squandered away as wood chips and fiber board. The world's largest chip and board mill is not appropriate in Chile, its offensive. Chileans will fight it tooth and nail, and so will international environmental groups. In that kind of environment, Boise Cascade will have a very difficult time guaranteeing a sufficient supply of timber for their Cascada Chile mill. Its a risky venture for them, and it will just get riskier. In addition, specifically tell Mr. Harad and his board partner, Mr. Robert Jaedicke, to instead reinvest in their projects at home by emphasizing responsible management of their lands. And urge Mr. Marshall Carter and Mr. John Gunn to use their financial stockholder might as leverage to put pressure on Boise Cascade to pull out of this shaky and irresponsible investment. There is a window of opportunity right now for us to help Boise Cascade reverse course. The company still must obtain full bank financing for the Cascada Chile project in order for it to go forward, and Boise Cascade's board of directors must also vote its approval of the project at their meeting this Spring. Thousands of influential letters can turn them around! Mr. George Harad Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Boise Cascade Corporation 224 E. Braemere Rd. Boise, Idaho 83702-1710 Mr. Marshall N. Carter, CEO State Street Bank & Trust 225 Franklin St. Boston, MA 02110 Mr. Robert K. Jaedicke Stanford University Graduate School of Business Stanford, CA 94305 Mr. John Gunn, President Dodge & Cox 1 Sansome Street San Francisco, CA 94104-4436 ________________________________________________________ 7. Target the activists that you feel are most likely to respond. Join email lists and newsgroups which might have folks willing to help your cause. Find individuals who are a part of numerous newsgroups or email lists who might circulate your message to the lists that they are a part of. Suggest the type of activists that these folks might contact. In your call for action, ask that it be circulated as widely as possible. 8. Put a short but descriptive title on your plea. "Sinking the News" is good but it does not convey what you wish to have happen. How about "Help Stop Pakistan Government from Sinking the News". 9. Protect yourself. Use an anonymous remailer for responses, have a friend in another country forward responses, write your story in the third person and anything else that you can think of to protect your ability to keep up the fight. Your continuted information is the most critical thing to the continuation of this effort. Develop as many alternative means of getting information out as you can. Also, see if you can find others who will continue the fight if you no longer have communication access. It is important for those who oppose you to know that they cannot solve the problem by silencing a few voices. 10. Help people make the link between your cause and other popular causes. If there are US corporations which are pushing the Pakistani government into its position, you can get anti-corporate folks to support your cause. Are labor issues involved? If they are, you can target a call to action to labor related activists. The same with environmental, human rights and globalist issues. It might be nice to have a message which ties all of these items into one call to action but it might be more effective to have several messages targeted to different activist communities. You want to get your message cross posted to as many email lists as possible. Make this easy for folks to do by providing a justification for them to post things that might be a little bit off subject but not far enough off subject that they will be criticized for their post. An environmental forest activist friend of mine has written a fine series of articles on how to be an effective activist. Though these articles apply to forest activism there are many principles that relate to activism in general. This series is called "Usual Suspects" and can be found at: http://britell.com/use/use1.html I hope that I will have an opportunity to help circulate your message when I have a clearer idea of what you wish to happen. At 01:43 PM 2/4/99 +0500, you wrote: > > >---------- >From: Isa Daudpota [SMTP:daudpota@sdnpk.undp.org] >Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 7:28 PM >To: Undisclosed.recipients:; >Subject: "Sinking the News" > >This is my plea against the Government of Pakistan's attempt >to get 16 journalists fired from the national daily "The News". Isa > >-------------------"Sinking the News"----------------------- > > >Fascism survives in its morbid forms througout the world, but nowhere are >its methods more blatant than in the developing world. Dissidents are >intimidated and newspapers pressured to present a pleasing picture of the >government's performance. Where govenments begin to act like Goliath, >thankfully, Davids springs up, and their appearance restores ones faith in >society's latent capacity for healing. In Pakistan, there are 16 such >Davids whose honest ink have filled the columns of "The News" and >highlighted continued misgovernance in Pakistan. The government is now >coercing this national daily to stifle these brave voices and to replace >them by others who would readily trumpet the government's achievements. > >In such times let's remind ourselves of the moving words of Pastor Martin >Nielmoller. [The string of journalists from other newspapers who have >appeared on Pakistan Television *supporting* the government's action need >to pay particular attention.] The Pastor wrote: > >"In Germany they first came for the Communist and I didn't speak up >because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't >speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, >and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came >for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then >they came for me -- and by that time no one was left to speak up." > >A united journalists' community and others who value a liberal press >should strongly oppose the government's high-handed policy to suppress >free journalism in this country. Remember, that failure in this would be >a step towards ending unbiased national reporting. It would condemn those >wanting to know the national news -- grim as it is in reality -- to >viewing Pakistan Television's sugary government propaganda. Horror! >That's reason enough to put up a fight. > > >Q. Isa Daudpota Email: daudpota@sdnpk.undp.org >P. O. Box 3099, >Islamabad 44000, PAKISTAN. -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:04:24 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Michael - Are these tests for organic matter levels, trace minerals, etc -or- are they test for heavy metal contamination, etc (or 'both')? -Allan >Dear Allan, > > Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative >Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants >and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley >and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA >around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. >Michael > >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >> I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER >> CERTIFICATION. ( >> You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a >> definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on >> the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, >> maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't >> come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? >> >> >> >> Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with >> particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is >> not necessarily ORGANIC. >> >> AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations >> which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil >> test reports from independent labs.) >> >> >> Thanks for finding time for this >> >> -Allan Balliett >> moderator, BD NOW! >> >> ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:08:49 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Maria Thun Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most thankful for a hint. Ferdinand Vondruska ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: pamdetray@email.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <990204152923E5.14744@webc02.globecomm.net> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:29:23 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: study circle Hello all, my computer is dead but my efforts to comprehend the Ag Course are still very much alive. However, I don't have much access to email until I replace the old Mac. I hope to have as much of the lecture course as possible under my belt before I start planting this spring. Don't know when I'll have a new computer. I would be curious to hear from other study circle participants--how are you coming with your individual study? Cheers, Pam DeTray ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 07:34:31 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Maria Thun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 05-Feb-99, you wrote: > Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most > thankful for a hint. > > Ferdinand Vondruska > Regards ' Work on the Land and the Constellations', this is one book by Maria Thun that I know of. Regards Margaret from Australia ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <19990204202613.10262.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Maria Thun Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:26:13 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear Ferdinand, Try "Working With the Land and the Constellations". Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <19990204205010.16257.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: study circle Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:50:10 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear Pam, I don't know if I'm studing that much at the moment..(e.g.) have you ever been to a Church where everyone has their head in the Hymnal? Even though they use the same liturgical setting nearly every Sunday... no one remembers it. Why? Their not using their Heart.... Once the heart enters into the matter, a person begins to experiance. With the experiance we observe. Put another way. Observe the experiance. After our first year of the use of preparations, I want to observe the experiance. I want to see what has occurred, look at what change is taking place. Its wonderful and the entity(of the farm) is beginning to assume its' own character. Is that something else that Steiner meant, you know, when he said "the period of crystalization"? Mabey its the time when the farm entity begins to communicate with the rest of the environment. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <00ce01be5081$a612b640$964b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Maria Thun Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:02:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ferdy, Pam!!! So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. You have both been in my thoughts. Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with us...just let her rip! (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) :-) Julie ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:51:45 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Honeybee Quote Not giving up with the lack of enthusiasm about defining Demeter Certification, I'm looking for your favorite quote about THE HONEYBEE. One from RS would be most welcomed, but what else do you have? -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:27:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Message-ID: <6D40ADD8B6AEDEAC8525670F000657B1.0007FE458525670F@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends of Bd-Now, <> I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their collective hubris. Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was unclear? Respectfully, Jane Sherry (Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:52:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: vinnie Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Bravo!! Jane Sherry. How articulate and clear! Vinnie at Elixir Farm >Dear Friends of Bd-Now, > ><intentions -- spoken and unspoken--of the transnational corporations >steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, >and such? > >That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the >general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they >can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel >that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. >It is murky beyond comfort.">> > >I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. >However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations >is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not >the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their >collective hubris. > >Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control >LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! >Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is >unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce >diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? > >The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone >would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very >greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can >not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. > >Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational >corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- >fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic >manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was >unclear? > >Respectfully, >Jane Sherry >(Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36BA5405.4702F6B1@seattle2000.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:14:59 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I am here lurking... Thanks for asking Julie. And Ferdy, if you want, you can just lurk too. (I hate that word but I have found that by just reading and discarding email and not feeling obligated to answer those not addressed to me personally, I have more freedom! And we will all be getting busier as the winter rolls away... Martin Nyberg GreenMan Farm "Julie M." wrote: > Ferdy, Pam!!! > > So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking > about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. > You have both been in my thoughts. > > Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your > departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with > us...just let her rip! > > (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) > > :-) > > Julie ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36BA5B3E.4381F2CD@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:45:18 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Welcome Back Ferdy (was - Re: Maria Thun) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Martin, Just returned from the stable. Having been away for seven weeks is a long, long time. We have put about 6 - 7 inches of bird's eye gravel into the cow pen and it works wonders. No more foot problems, and they love to rest on the sand (it is about a 4mm dia.sand). So, anybody who has cows that he has to keep in a small(er) pen, let me assure you that bird's eye is the answer. We can easily collect the manure. The urin is running away. And another benefit: In spring we put BD Preparations into the sand (the cows are then on the field and not in the pen) and we can harvest the most amazing crops such as tomatoes, cukes, cabbage, zucchinis (you have never seen such fine zucchinis!) and a lot of vegetable that is high feeder. Of course, the Preps (compost preps) will break down the manure in the sand relatively quickly and the roots will go all the way down into the underground. I just wanted to add this for those who have a problem with keeping cows penned in. We keep 5 cows (more on the way). As I said: the hooves are clean, the fur is shining and the eyes are bright and happy. And the small calf is full of zest and vigour. What else: yea! I realized that the snow melted right away when falling on the sand. On concrete, on the soil and on the hard gravel it is still laying about 4 inches thick. So, sand must reflect the warmth of the air and let some air get inbetween snow and sand so that it will melt faster. Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Yes, I am here lurking... Thanks for asking Julie. And Ferdy, if you want, > you can just lurk too. (I hate that word but I have found that by just reading > and discarding email and not feeling obligated to answer those not addressed to > me personally, I have more freedom! And we will all be getting busier as the > winter rolls away... > Martin Nyberg > GreenMan Farm > > "Julie M." wrote: > > > Ferdy, Pam!!! > > > > So glad to hear from our far north-western friends again! I've been thinking > > about both of you. I love it when blessings like this are bestowed upon us. > > You have both been in my thoughts. > > > > Pam, I'm sending my best wishes and hopes for a rapid replacement for your > > departed Mac. And Ferdy - SO GLAD YOU are BACK...and no toying with > > us...just let her rip! > > > > (Martin, are you there? I know you will second my request) > > > > :-) > > > > Julie ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <199902050251.SAA12670@ns2.vphos.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:45:41 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allan: >From a Demeter trifold brochure: "The Demeter Association, Inc. is a national, independent, non-profit, non-tax-exempt corporation committed to assuring that Biodynamic foods in the United States are grown and processed with the highest integrity and care. The standards for evaluation are used worldwide." Also: "The Demeter Associations stands as your assurance that food properly bearing the Demeter Association symbols has been grown by Biodynamic agricultural methods and has met specific standards within these methods. Synthetic fertilizers, insecticides, fungicides, herbicides, hormones, additives and irradiation are not used on farms and processed foods certified by the Demeter Association." and Allan: IMO there is no non-organic agriculture which is sustainable; nor is much of organic methodology sustainable. For a definition of sustainabiligy in agriculture, think of the Chinese methods detailed in _Farmers of Forth Centuries_ by F H King, writing in the first decade of the present century. Woody At 12:42 PM 2/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER >CERTIFICATION. ( >You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a >definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on >the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, >maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't >come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > > > >Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with >particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is >not necessarily ORGANIC. > >AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations >which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil >test reports from independent labs.) > > >Thanks for finding time for this > >-Allan Balliett >moderator, BD NOW! > ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: jrei@uswest.net Message-ID: <36BA6AF2.C8879542@pop.eugn.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:52:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" , "OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU" Subject: American Seed Trade Association Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just returned from the Vegetable and Flower Seed Conference of the American Seed Trade Association and thought some of you would be interested in some of the discussions. First of all I would like to thank those of you who provided comments for me to share with the All-American Selections Committee concerning the inclusion of GM (genetically modified) varieties into the selection's judging. It was decided that GM varieties would not be allowed into the competition because the AAS lacked the resources to explain GM varieties to the general public. During the conference I had a chance to talk with representatives from nearly all of the major seed producers from around the world. The topic of GM varieties was a major point of discussion both on a one-to-one basis as well as in committee meetings. Two points soon became clear. The first was that some companies were genuinely surprised by the attitude of disappointment and disapproval by the home gardener. Many truly see GM varieties as the savior of mankind. The second was the fact that most companies are taking the lack of regulation, mainly in the area of labeling, by the federal government as an open door invitation to increase the amount of GM material introduced into the food supplies. The feeling is that as long as GM grains are allowed to be blended into the supplies of non -GM grains, the American public will be 'stelthed' into submission. As most of you know the home garden market is but a drop in the bucket when it comes to the total amount of vegetable seed used in the US. More and more garden seed companies are faced with taking a variety that was really bred for the commercial market or to develop a breeding and seed production program which is expensive and time consuming. That leaves many at the mercy of the large international seed companies that are racing towards GO varieties as if their life depended on it. Many of these companies have the stated objective of rapidly moving towards GM varieties for there entire lineup. It was also interesting to hear most of the companies say that the current terminator technology was impractical due to the necessity of treating the seed with tetracycline in order to activate the gene, but that most had ongoing programs to develop similar technologies that was less complicated. Many of the senior company representatives are convinced that there must be ways to definitively protect their varieties from unauthorized use. It was however, somewhat reassuring that when I explained that Territorial Seed Company would not trial or market any variety that is developed by GM, a number of seed companies indicated that they would assist us in whatever way possible to continue to offer home garden varieties as well as providing us with discontinued germplasm with which we could use to continue to expand our own seed production. Hope this spurs some additional discussion about the state of GMO's in the US today. Joel Reiten Territorial Seed Company ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: Margaret Kemp To: BDnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 14:26:52 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: mad cow disease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one has sent in any relevant info as yet. Could someone out there give me info to pass on? Thank you Margaret ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36BAC024.2B59DE91@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:55:48 +0000 From: ALISON EADES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: mad cow disease Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are still getting stories every now and again in the UK of people with CJD, which may be the result of eating infected beef. This has some very unpleasant symptoms and ultimately leads to death. This week there was a story in the paper that a cow in France had been found with BSE (Bovine SE) and the whole herd had to be put down (though I wasn't sure if that meant the herd in France or the herd in Britain where the cow came from - maybe both). The policy remains in place that one infected cow means deth to a complete herd. The UK is still trying to get the European Union to lift the ban on trading British beef. Alison Margaret Kemp wrote: > Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is > known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a > list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one > has sent in any relevant info as yet. > Could someone out there give me info to pass on? > Thank you > Margaret ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36BA0412.D3DF5822@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 20:33:22 +0000 From: ALISON EADES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Maria Thun Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any book? 'Work on the Land and the Constellations' Maria Thun, translation 1990 ISBN 0 906155 30 X Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Does anybody know of a book that Maria Thun has written. Would be most > thankful for a hint. > > Ferdinand Vondruska ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:04 -0400 (AST) From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yeah Jane... Couldn't have said it better myself.. The Nova Scotia Organic Growers Assoc. (NSOGA) is now in the process of publishing a Bio-Tech special edition newsletter...This will include a list of biodynamic/organic seed companies.... Ecology & evironmental groups will be assisting in helping this publication reaches the consumer.... Anyone interested in obtaining a copy contact: Janet Wallace Email: jwallace@istar.ca --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Dear Friends of Bd-Now, > > < intentions -- spoken and unspoken--of the transnational corporations > steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, > and such? > > That takes some time and deliberation to examine and comprehend. But the > general public -- and most farmers -- have not had this time. We and they > can make a lot of rhetorical statements about the intention, but I feel > that it is not really clear yet. It is on the other side of the veil yet. > It is murky beyond comfort.">> > > I agree that we must "pay attention" and see where this all will lead. > However, I do not agree that the intent of the transnational corporations > is unclear. I think their intent is perfectly clear. It is certainly not > the "Sacred Hoop of Life" that they respect and cultivate here in their > collective hubris. > > Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control > LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! > Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is > unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce > diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? > > The market prices for food are so artificially low, I am amazed anyone > would try to farm for a living! Where is the value for LIFE force? The very > greedy 'nature' of our economic markets is such that there will NOT, can > not be a waiting period of any kind to see how GE plays out. > > Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational > corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- > fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic > manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was > unclear? > > Respectfully, > Jane Sherry > (Turtle Island resident. Lover of LIFE) > ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: WCavender@aol.com Message-ID: <3138a9c8.36baefde@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:19:26 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Send Email to help stop the Terminator Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://www.rafi.org/usda.html ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-ID: <36B7A4BF.6DC5@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:22:07 -0500 From: Linda Ray MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net, hwashen@trace.net.tw Subject: Re: seeds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bill and Listfolk, The most complete gathering of links and contact information for open-pollinated, Heirloom seed sources I have yet found is at: http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople. Best Regards, Linda Ray Free as a community service-- The above link is posted on the US Organic Agriculture Message Board: http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > to the list. I'd like to get this list together - - through everyone's > input - - and up on the www.igg.com/bdnow because there is a LOT of > interest reliable REAL seed. -AB> > > Hi, > > Can you refer me to sources of non-hybrid, open pollenating seeds? I am > working with farmers in Taiwan using biodynamic methods to transition from > chemical to organic farming. > > Thank you, > > Bill Watson > Eden (T'ien Lin) Partners > > hwashen@trace.net.tw ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Message-Id: <199902051824.KAA20812@ns2.vphos.net> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 11:16:45 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: mad cow disease Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Margaret: http://www.cyber-dyne. com/~tom/mad_cow_disease.html Woody At 02:26 PM 2/5/99 +1100, you wrote: >Hi there to anyone with up to date info. on the mad cow disease, or as it is >known scientifically (I think) as spongiform encephalitis. I belong to a >list that has had a lot of people asking for info on this topic but no one >has sent in any relevant info as yet. >Could someone out there give me info to pass on? >Thank you >Margaret > ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 From: pamdetray@email.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9902051352109L.01686@www4.iname.net> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:52:10 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: STUDY L3 Sulfur Every time I read this lecture, a question always hovers. In the past, I've used sulfur to balance the alkalinity of my soil, before the effects of all my composting here started to kick in. Is soil alkaline partly because of a lack of sulfur? Weren't the creative fingers moistened enough when the high desert here was created? Thanks, Pam DeTray ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:33:21 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Allan, I waited until I contacted Sarah Davidson of BCARA, who heads the certification section. Yes, they require soil tests on total organics, minerals, trace minerals for new applicants for each of the first three years, then once in every three years afterwards. If there was a history of pesticide use, then, at least for the first year, they have to also do a pesticide screen, or, select for certain pesticides if a detailed history is known. In theory, COABC requires one in three years testing for the above, but, apparently not all of the 8 certification gov't sponsored agencies all comply or enforce, but, BCARA does. Michael On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Michael - Are these tests for organic matter levels, trace minerals, etc > -or- are they test for heavy metal contamination, etc (or 'both')? -Allan > > > >Dear Allan, > > > > Yes, the BC Gov't sponsored British Columbia Assoc. of Regenerative > >Agric. (BCARA) does require and administer soil tests for new applicants > >and sometimes for renewals. BCARA admininsters the area of Fraser Valley > >and Greater Vancouver. There are 8 other affiliated orgs. like BCARA > >around the Province, who probably, have the same or similar MOA. > >Michael > > > >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > >> I have a request for a good TWO SENTENCE definition for DEMETER > >> CERTIFICATION. ( > >> You know, there's a lot of responsibility in providing the press with a > >> definition like this! I've sent email to Ann M., no response, must be on > >> the road. Myself, I've never been able to afford a copy of the guidelines, > >> maybe someone who has might want to take a shot at this! ) If you can't > >> come up with BOTH sentences, how about contributing one? > >> > >> > >> > >> Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' with > >> particular emphasis on that agriculture which is sustainable but which is > >> not necessarily ORGANIC. > >> > >> AND, some input on this: Do you know of organic certification organizations > >> which actually ADMINISTER soil testing? (The ones I work with REQUIRE soil > >> test reports from independent labs.) > >> > >> > >> Thanks for finding time for this > >> > >> -Allan Balliett > >> moderator, BD NOW! > >> > >> > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____BDNOW__digest_86-- ----__ListProc__NextPart__918244163459122081-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 15:42:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00165 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:42:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA03250; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:34:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02836 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:32:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id PAA03626 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:33:40 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:31:40 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF5B@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: seeds Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:31:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 145 thanks, Linda!! olivia > ---------- > From: Linda Ray > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 1999 8:22 PM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Cc: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net; hwashen@trace.net.tw > Subject: Re: seeds > > Dear Bill and Listfolk, > > The most complete gathering of links and contact information for > open-pollinated, Heirloom seed sources I have yet found is at: > http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople. > > Best Regards, > Linda Ray > > Free as a community service-- The above link is posted on the US > Organic Agriculture Message Board: > http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=lray > > > > > > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > > as > > to the list. I'd like to get this list together - - through everyone's > > input - - and up on the www.igg.com/bdnow because there is a LOT of > > interest reliable REAL seed. -AB> > > > > Hi, > > > > Can you refer me to sources of non-hybrid, open pollenating seeds? I am > > working with farmers in Taiwan using biodynamic methods to transition > from > > chemical to organic farming. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Bill Watson > > Eden (T'ien Lin) Partners > > > > hwashen@trace.net.tw > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 16:04:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA00711 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:04:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06733; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06351 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:53:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0114.direct.ca ([204.244.83.14] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 108sHJ-0000Hd-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:55:06 -0800 Message-ID: <36BB5A65.F2B161C0@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:53:57 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY L3 Sulfur References: <9902051352109L.01686@www4.iname.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 146 My dear friend Pam, You know, the creator spirits did not think that man would live just about everywhere and, in some cases, want to grow tomatoes on the North Pole or strawberries in the jugle. We, human beings, want to live just about everywhere AND grow potatoes in the desert or whatever. The spirits of creation produced marvellous areas such as the Nile Delta, certain areas in the Prairies or along the coasts and so forth on which people could grow a multitude of vegetables, wheat, corn and so forth. But then they started to move into the mountains, cut off the trees and changed the bio-balance greatly. Some of us may live in areas where our forefathers&mothers eeked out their sparce living..... and the soil may still be good. Some of us may live in areas (such as yours) that was forests only and, may be, the hunter(s) and gatherers could survive. They needed vast areas to live in and they had to move on and on and on. A special kind of life. And then, modern man started to settle into the gatherer's area and started to produce whatever. Made composts and the like. Well, I, too, am living in an area that (historically) would not have supported too many a family on an acre, perhaps 1/8th of a person per acre, if at all. Fish, fowl, bear, deer and the odd skunk (I wouldn't eat them of course) would have made it possible for my forebears to live here. A bit of vegetables, too. But nothing like corn, wheat, potatoes or any starchy stuff. The soil is as acid as a lemon, in this part of the world. Forest soil. and it took us years to 'neutralize it'. And if we leave, it will go back to a pH 3.5 or less. We limed, we spread ashes, we aereated, we dug, we composted, we drained and worked hard to bring the pH up to the present 5.8 or 6.5 and we are still far below the ideal level. Winter rain, moss growth, the proximity of the forest and some pollution (thinking of the paper mills....) will make our battle a long one. I do not know whether I have said anything you can use here. Regards Ferdinand pamdetray@email.com wrote: > Every time I read this lecture, a question always hovers. > > In the past, I've used sulfur to balance the alkalinity of my soil, before the effects of all my composting here started to kick in. > > Is soil alkaline partly because of a lack of sulfur? Weren't the creative fingers moistened enough when the high desert here was created? > > Thanks, > Pam DeTray > > ----------------------------------------------- > FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com > Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 21:16:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06085 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16655; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:05:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15791 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:01:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.172] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05787 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:02:36 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990205.122205.-4073599.0.barrylia@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:02:08 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 147 Not to intentionally respond to your thoughtfully written reply in an inappropriate fashion in the least, I wanted to mention that this afternoon I saw stacks of this very book by Logsdon at Borders in the very nice hardback edition for the price of a mere $1.00. The rare beauty of chain operations is that there's probably a stack at the Borders near you also. (And Taylors "Berries" book for $5.99) -Allan >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:42:27 -0500 Intergalactic Garage >writes: >[snip] >>Also looking for a succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture,' >with particular emphasis on that agriculture which is >sustainable but >which is not necessarily ORGANIC. >[snip] >>-Allan Balliett >>moderator, BD NOW! > >Allan, > I don't have a "succinct definition of 'sustainable agriculture'" to >proffer, but I thought I'd offer the following food for thought on the >topic above. > You may already be familiar with Gene Logsdon's writings? His THE >CONTRARY FARMER represents an "agriculture which is sustainable but which >is not necessarily ORGANIC." > I'm thinking in particular of passages starting on page 161: "Oh, so >you're not a certified organic grower, visitors sometimes snort, knowing >that I have been an outspoken supporter of organic farming methods for >thirty years. Nope, I'm not. For thirty years I've also said that a >_moderate_ amount of chemical fertilizer is not harmful to anything and >is sometimes the most economical way to maintain fertility. I thought >that the organic fraternity would eventualy realize this." > Keep in mind that his concern here is NOT with nitrogen--he manures and >rotates pasture--but with P & K: "And to say that natural raw phosphate >or potash derivatives are okay for sustainable agriculture and the >fertilizers refined from them are anathema is an argument for which >little proof exists outside the minds of organic purists. Besides, think >of the increased air pollution, ozone build-up, transportation costs, and >highway accidents that would occur if all of agriculture decided to rely >only on far greater tonnages of the unrefined material. > "I figure I am just as competent and justified in this situation to >declare that a little chemical fertilizer is okay in good farming as the >NOSB evidently feels justified and competent in saying that antibiotics, >which I have not had to use, are sometimes okay in organic farming." > Logsdon later quotes a friend of his: "'If the National Organic >Standards Board insists on barring all synthetic fertilizers, most >farmers trying hard to achieve a sustainable agriculture that works will >simply drop out of the organic movement. I don't care to be certified >organic anyway; I just want to run an ecologically sane farm on the least >amount of inputs as possible.'" > His moderated non-purist attutude is also reflected the bottom of page >204: "Eventually the good farmer--following a rotation of corn, oats, >wheat, hay, and pasture and then back to corn--will keep his fields >relatively weed-free without herbicides. If a special weed problem does >occur, then a small spot-spraying of herbicide to the problem area can be >very effective, but only under the mantle of proper rotations and >cultivation. I am sorry to have to disagree with the organic purists who >liken herbicide applications to human drug use and say that it only takes >a spoonful to start an addiction." [Recall that such "small >spot-spraying of herbicide to the problem area" was indeed a moderate >attitude advocated even by Rachel Carson in SILENT SPRING.] >_____________________________________________________________ >Barry Lia, Seattle WA > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 21:20:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06125 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:20:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16531; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:05:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15765 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:01:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.172] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05769 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:02:34 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:59:43 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 148 >Hi Allan, > > I waited until I contacted Sarah Davidson of BCARA, who heads the >certification section. > > Yes, they require soil tests on total organics, minerals, trace minerals >for new applicants for each of the first three years, then once in every >three years afterwards. If there was a history of pesticide use, then, at >least for the first year, they have to also do a pesticide screen, or, >select for certain pesticides if a detailed history is known. > In theory, COABC requires one in three years testing for the above, but, >apparently not all of the 8 certification gov't sponsored agencies all >comply or enforce, but, BCARA does. > Michael > Pardon me for I am THICK: does BCARA adminster these tests, or does the farmer use an independent lab and send the results to BCARA? Thanks -Allan >> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 5 21:21:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06141 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:21:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16414; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:04:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15752 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:01:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.66.172] (pm3mbr2-66-147.intrepid.net [206.102.66.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05759 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:02:31 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36B7A4BF.6DC5@worldnet.att.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:55:28 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 149 Linda - How was the Florida BD Conference? -Allan =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 00:15:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08858 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:15:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02126; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:06:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29619 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA22282 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:41:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:41:03 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Author's Inquirey: DEMETER CERTIFICATION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 150 No, the farmer takes the tests and it goes to an independant lab. Unfort., Sarah told me of farmers who take samples right after they spread compost, leading to some very interesting results. They are trying to educated the farmers to take the tests at the same time of year, but, that may be different depending on the crop. That sets up an interesting problem in that crop rotation would lead to different sampling times. How to achieve consistancy and meaningful results? Are the results just indications? I know people who don't take lab samples, but, just feel and look at the soil and sense everything that is defficient and sufficient. Michael On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >Hi Allan, > > > > I waited until I contacted Sarah Davidson of BCARA, who heads the > >certification section. > > > > Yes, they require soil tests on total organics, minerals, trace minerals > >for new applicants for each of the first three years, then once in every > >three years afterwards.. If there was a history of pesticide use, then, at > >least for the first year, they have to also do a pesticide screen, or, > >select for certain pesticides if a detailed history is known. > > In theory, COABC requires one in three years testing for the above, but, > >apparently not all of the 8 certification gov't sponsored agencies all > >comply or enforce, but, BCARA does. > > Michael > > > > Pardon me for I am THICK: does BCARA adminster these tests, or does the > farmer use an independent lab and send the results to BCARA? > > Thanks > > -Allan > > >> > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 00:16:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08866 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:16:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA01964; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:05:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [194.126.80.50]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28163 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:20:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from p26s03a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.211.39] helo=cooksd.globalnet.co.uk) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 108zFt-0002Ij-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 04:22:05 +0000 Message-ID: <36BBBF15.6920@globalnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 04:03:33 +0000 From: "Cook's Delight" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: BSE and GM foods by Rex Tyler] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------102118D918E5" Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 151 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------102118D918E5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just a comment really on the facts about BSE and GM foods this letter was sent to Our Ministry Of Agriculture to try to make them see sense Regards Rex Tyler --------------102118D918E5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <36B67B43.3F1C@globalnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 04:12:51 +0000 From: Cook's Delight Reply-To: cooksd@globalnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: K.Slade@FSSG.maff.gov.uk CC: soilassoc@gn.apc.org Subject: Re: BSE and GM foods by Rex Tyler References: <366B1A07.7D25@globalnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So at last it's out,AIDS came down from the monkeys, The chimpanzees were eaten, and of course Transmission jumped the species that's Reality And Africa began to feel the Force The great disastrous Tidal Wave that's followed With after shocks that have spread far and wide How many souls have perished? Through this arrogance! And truly there is now, no place to hide. It's out there, reeking havoc, in Humanity Xenotransplantation, seems to me To be the Hell above all Hell's, I'm sorry If you lot and the Government can't see As Humans, these credentials are sufficient A Scientist I do not have to be I only have to see the face of Children And all this sadness just boils up in me. The rats in Dr Putzai's famous sacking Have surfaced in last Sundays famous Mail A top Pathologist confirms, his findings And so begins the controversial trail Fowards,backwards everywhere, and people The Public, the Organic Movement share The worries We are really VERY worried It seems to us so many monsters tear The heart and soul, out of, what is so positive For their ends, and its happening right now That this Genetic Business should be halted Not why,Not when, but right away, Here's How The greedy Corporations tell them hop it Get out, "sling your hooks" just bloody Go It's beyond the comprehension of so many Who really simply just don't want to know. Rex Tyler --------------102118D918E5-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 00:19:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08932 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:19:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02062; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:06:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29308 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:33:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.150.21] (pm3mbr4-150-21.intrepid.net [209.190.150.21]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA31340 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:34:54 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:50:51 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Invasive, Non-Native Species Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 152 FEDERAL EFFORT TO COMBAT INVASIVE SPECIES EXPANDED -- President Clinton is signing an executive order to coordinate a federal strategy to address the growing environmental and economic threat of invasive species, plants and animals that are not native to the United States. Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman, Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, and Commerce Under Secretary James Baker told a news conference (February 3) that the order creates an Invasive Species Council. The Council will develop a comprehensive plan to minimize the economic, ecological, and human health impacts of invasive species and determine further steps to prevent the introduction and spread of invasive species. The Council will be chaired by Glickman, Babbitt and Commerce Secretary William Daley. Contact: Andy Solomon (202) 720-4623. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 08:59:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA11984 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:59:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA01737; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA01479 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:48:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.116.41] (client-151-196-116-41.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.41]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10265 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:49:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902061349.IAA10265@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:47:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 153 ><intentions -- spoken and unspoken--of the transnational corporations >steadily and stealthily bringing us GEO organisms, seeds, plants, animals, >and such? >>Jane Sherry wrote: >Which part of terminator-seed technology is unclear? The desire to control >LIFE in order to make money is paramount here. The message is unmistakable! >Which part of the intent behind inserting animal genes into plant life is >unclear? Which part of trying to control the forces of nature which produce >diversity in favor of controlled monocropping for profit is unclear? >Although your words are eloquent, I must disagree that these transnational >corporations have any intent other than clear GREED and a hatred, no-- >fear, of Life. How the LIFE forces deal with their monstrous genetic >manipulations is another thing...perhaps this is what you meant, that was .unclear? Dear Jane and others who express concern about my patience, Both in corporate board rooms and socially I have spoken with people involved with bringing genetically engineered food and other products to the market. They turned out to be human beings with families and all the usual concerns. I found them to be sincere and enthusiastic about what they are doing. In my view their ideas and actions are myopic, wrong-headed, anti-life, and dangerous, but I do not judge them or their intention. I've learned the hard way about judgement and sizzling rhetoric. Many if not most people in those corporate labs and board rooms are passionately certain they are motivated by basically good impulses, not greed, hatred, or fear. While I may disagree with them, and strive to bring other realities into being that I am certain -- in my limited wisdom -- are positive and the way to go, I have no infallible perspective into their souls. Some have suggested that dark occult lodges are behind all of this GEO madness -- and also behind many other so-called innovations in the modern world. That may be so. I have no way of knowing for certain, or doing much about that other than keeping ceremonial vigil as is my way. My personal call to action is clear -- acknowledge the problems and dangers, name them, and then put my energy into spreading the word and supporting what is life affirming: organics, biodynamics, and CSA. At least until a major disaster of some sort happens to open the public's eyes, GEOs are here and likely to multiply. Each person aware of this makes choices about how to respond. One part of my response is to frame questions that help me penetrate further. Since this is happening on a massive scale, I ask "what is the ultimate spiritual intention or purpose behind this"? What part does it play in the larger spiritual evolution of humanity and the hoop? I'm going to take my time and go carefully on those questions. And I'm going to put the sweat of my brow, my wallet, and my creative energy in the garden, in the local CSA, and in community education about what is positive and healing. Sincerely, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 12:12:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13758 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:12:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA18024; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:02:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10706 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:48:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-143-89.s26.as1.hgt.erols.com [207.172.143.89]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25807 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:49:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36BC6446.61EBCE41@erols.com> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:48:22 -0500 From: Rex Harrill Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds References: <199902061349.IAA10265@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 154 Steven McFadden wrote: > Both in corporate board rooms and socially I have spoken with people > involved with bringing genetically engineered food and other products to the > market. They turned out to be human beings with families and all the usual > concerns. I found them to be sincere and enthusiastic about what they are > doing. > Maybe so, maybe so...but: I actually interacted with a man who Novartis hired away from the university system and then turned loose to stalk the Internet on their behalf. I'm making that up? Not hardly: once upon a time, while monitoring a supposed alternative ag group, I kept noticing that every time I put in a plug for earth-friendly farming he would immediately jump in to "explain" that toxic chemicals aren't so bad after all. One day I asked what his purpose was. He responded with two points: 1) he liked to piss me off (his words) and, 2) he intended to see that chemicals got a "fair" shake. He was quite candid that doing the later was his job, while doing the former was his recreation. Since then I have noticed other spokesmen for the drug and chemical industry (based on their tireless championing of toxic technology), but I can't get them to fess up that they're paid for it. The best I can do is observe the time stamps on their messages. It quickly becomes apparent they're writing those "hey guys, a little poison never hurt anybody" messages on company time. Steve, I highly respect you and your work. However, I would urge you to mount a serious study into the agents of disinfomation working the Internet. There are billions and billions of dollars at stake here and the big toxic sellers are not going down without a fight. A conspiracy can be more than two guys getting together to plot how to do you wrong. For instance, when giant companies A, B, & C, all members of the Association of Chemical Manufacturers (or whatever), independently send their detail men out to spread disinformation, I call that, too, conspiracy. These people do not have our best interests at heart. They are there to make a profit and only become interested in the enviornment when the toxic crap starts seeping out of the ground neath *their* barbecue grill. And, to go back on topic, please discount a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g said by a GE seed seller. I repeat: they *ain't* doing it for your health. Regards, Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 15:11:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16141 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07240; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:01:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12066 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.2.10]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:04:08 +0000 Message-ID: <36BC6523.8E6@cwcom.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 15:52:03 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Ann Wigmore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 155 Allen - I've just tried again to reach Ann Wigmore Institute web sites. No dramatic responses, as in the past: for www.wigmore.org/~wigmore and www.rt66.com/~wigmore/ I received simply "Not Found"; for www.healthmap.com/wigmore/ I got HTTP Error 404 - all after a longish wait. I'm still not sure who's to blame. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 15:11:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16153 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:11:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07405; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12069 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:02:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.2.10]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:04:10 +0000 Message-ID: <36BC6879.3F9@cwcom.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:06:17 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: GM foods Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 156 Thanks, Allen, for your tongue-in-cheek relay of the proposed "non-native, invasive plants" legislation. Obviously includes all GM species, but doesn't it also include 90+% of all food-plants now cultivated in the US, plus most of those in gardens ? How to act against the one without the other ? Incidentally, the BBC Radio 4 regular magazine "Food Programme" yesterday dealt with GM foods (not much detail in only half-an-hour's worth of trying to be fair to both sides). Strangely, Monsanto's PR spokesperson was unable to make a contribution, but some other company officer was caught for a couple of minutes hopping onto a plane at Heathrow airport. His comments studiously referred only to "biotechnology" and the fear which ignorant, non-technical people had of it - no reference to specific cases of herbicide resistance, terminator technology etc, and the interviewer was far too polite to question him on these. He (Monsanto Man) stressed that by far the greatest resistance to this biotechnology is shown by Brits, which he ascribed to our mistrust of scientists after the BSE debacle; US Americans, he claimed, are far less resistant. So you lot have got to get your act together and scream even louder ? Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 15:11:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16155 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:11:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07521; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:02:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06414 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:55:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25832 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:10:34 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO>; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:55:33 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: Information, mis or otherwise Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:55:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE51D8.5D6C0A60" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 157 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE51D8.5D6C0A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from = Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars = but with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? After ordering, I found out that Novartis developed this melon, which is = surprising because I didn't know they work with open pollinated = varieties. So, how would one go about finding out which seed are = 'tampered' with? What would be the point in creating an OP variety with = some of the desirable traits this one has?=20 Do I send it back? Do I now put Fedco on the 'suspicious' list? Aside = from growing your own, is there any way to determine the parentage of = our food? Martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE51D8.5D6C0A60 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiETAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAHgAAAEluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCBtaXMgb3Igb3RoZXJ3aXNlABYLAQWAAwAO AAAAzwcCAAYADQA3ACEABgBJAQEggAMADgAAAM8HAgAGAA0ALwA0AAYAVAEBCYABACEAAAA2MDM5 NEM2Qzg1QkREMjExQjExMTAwQzBGMDI5NjgyMQDnBgEDkAYAzAUAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAA AAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAgLH1pwpSvgEeAHAAAQAAAB4A AABJbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgbWlzIG9yIG90aGVyd2lzZQAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+Ugqn7mxMOWG9 hRHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAASAAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJl ci5jb20AAAADAAYQSaC0BwMABxAmAgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAU1BFQUtJTkdPRk5PVkFSVElTLElC T1VHSFRPUEVOUE9MTElOQVRFRE1FTE9OVEhJU09SREVSRlJPTUZFRENPSVRTQ0FMTEVEUVVFVFpB TEksU01BTEwsUk9VTkQsUEFJTlRFRAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAK0CAACpAgAASwMAAExaRnVHCUp3dwAK AQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxOHAoMAUA72cHJxMg/2cn0KgXVjAFALAwtgbiBnMTAzMwxg bG4NAiBlC6YGAHBlYWshC4BnIG9mB7BvdoUKwHQEACwgSSAG4Gh1Z2gFQG8UYAOgcKUG8GwLgGF0 CYAgB4DzCQADoHRoBAAU0AsgBJCyIANSIEYJgAWgLhWgVHQnBCBjB0BsFxFRqQpQdHoHQGkVkHMA wEcWsBWQA2B1bmQVkCcnCrALgBcBJyAWwGtl9QXQbxdxJgYAAZAPoBXADnUFQAPwF6AgMTIl3xpg FfAc0gBwFyBmB9EPsH8JgAQgC4AeQBpkGCEKsGPQa2FnZRjwRwlwFvBhFZBodWg/CqIKgEH/AYAY IRfzFKEVkgIQGwEU0K8dIRegFvAVByABAHYXUd8UYBcgF6MXQxWQdxewD3B3HyAEIB3gchFABAAU omIZBZBhdQ+wFaFkaWR0bicFQGsTgAfgF6Bl9nkdQAWwax1EFk4VMQiQ5xVgB5AY8FNvIOEoESiQ xxNgIwEToCBnbx5AFdH9BUBmC4AngBSyHSIlsx7S7x5ACXAbQAGQbRRgCXEb0PEdUj8gVyNyK2Qm 4CgyfxaBG4EfIgUAILEUogORT+5QKiUocR1icwNwHCAU4fcwMgEAAJByAaAZkBeQM8DfHWAEIBek K9EPgHMvMCFE/kQsEBWwD7AeYR1gFcAgEfcvMDXTKAJwHSEYoyuxMCOrGTAnIHAlwGkIYHMb0vRz dC8wQQCQAQAYRAnA2ygQFKJ5CGEU0HclcRfBryhBLhEAcChxYShwdCwQ+wEAIcFtC4AwFS4BAjAg Qd8U0jsSAhAEcCE1TRVBD4AnCqADYBcAY3QQhDE2FiA1ZRIBAEGgAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAA AAMAgBD/////QAAHMGBbOZUJUr4BQAAIMGBbOZUJUr4BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA A4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMA JoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUA AAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAEz0= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE51D8.5D6C0A60-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 15:11:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16173 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:11:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07816; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:04:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07556 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:03:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.73]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990206200358.FWJJ682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:03:58 +1300 Message-ID: <36BCA083.1DF1@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 09:05:23 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY L3 Sulfur References: <9902051352109L.01686@www4.iname.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 158 Pam Soils and life are all about balance. And a complex balance it is too. Sulphur is just one of several elements which will acidify your soil. >From what I understand of US soils, the age of them and therefore their state of weathering along with the lack of rain fall in many areas leads to an unusual ( in relation to my part of the world anyway ) build up of either Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium or Sodium. Without water the anions - Sulphur, nitrogen and oxides do not become as active in attaching to the cation elements and allowing them to be leached out of the soil. So they build up. Sulphur being the 'loose or slippery being' that it is easily provides this service for you. While your statement is right it can also be a lack of rainfall which is the main cause of alkalinity. Glen A.pamdetray@email.com wrote: > > Every time I read this lecture, a question always hovers. > > In the past, I've used sulfur to balance the alkalinity of my soil, before the effects of all my composting here started to kick in. > > Is soil alkaline partly because of a lack of sulfur? Weren't the creative fingers moistened enough when the high desert here was created? > > Thanks, > Pam DeTray > > ----------------------------------------------- > FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com > Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 15:47:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16816 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:47:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA13090; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:39:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12511 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:35:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109ESu-0000eZ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:36:33 -0800 Message-ID: <36BCA782.112DD061@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 12:35:14 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds References: <199902061349.IAA10265@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> <36BC6446.61EBCE41@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 159 My friends, Let me add a story here which my father and I witnessed in the Kanton of Valais, in Switzerland (around 1964). We visited a cauliflower farm where thousands and thousands of cauliflowers were 'manufactured. The had the size of a computer Monitor (not the flat ones!). While, in a corner, there was a concrete box of about 50' x 30' in which grew a lot of other plants plus some 100 small, relatively tiny cauliflower plants. Asked by my father whether this is a test site, the owner and producer replied laughingly: Do you really and honestly believe that I am eating the crap out there? It stinks when you cook it and think of all the stuff we put into it. No, my family and I we are eating the small stuff here. And he pointed at the 'text box'. He continued: I am getting paid for quantity and that's what the consumer wants. I couldn't make a living on those small heads. Suffice it to say that my father started to shout and our visit ended within seconds. So much for the fellow who has a family and works for a GE-company. One really must be totally naive to believe that guys who have a family and work for the chemical industry believe in the chemical industry. We are living in a truly schizophrenic society. If I would put a million dollars on the table, I bet that million, that many a green would get corrupted, too. I do not want to tell that story (it happened in the neighbourhood) where a staunch green clearcut his entire forest for a lousy $10,000.--. Money does a lot, indeed. Regards Ferdinand Rex Harrill wrote: > Steven McFadden wrote: > > > Both in corporate board rooms and socially I have spoken with people > > involved with bringing genetically engineered food and other products to the > > market. They turned out to be human beings with families and all the usual > > concerns. I found them to be sincere and enthusiastic about what they are > > doing. > > > > Maybe so, maybe so...but: I actually interacted with a man who Novartis hired > away from the university system and then turned loose to stalk the Internet on > their behalf. > > I'm making that up? Not hardly: once upon a time, while monitoring a supposed > alternative ag group, I kept noticing that every time I put in a plug for > earth-friendly farming he would immediately jump in to "explain" that toxic > chemicals aren't so bad after all. > > One day I asked what his purpose was. He responded with two points: 1) he liked > to piss me off (his words) and, 2) he intended to see that chemicals got a > "fair" shake. He was quite candid that doing the later was his job, while doing > the former was his recreation. > > Since then I have noticed other spokesmen for the drug and chemical industry > (based on their tireless championing of toxic technology), but I can't get them > to fess up that they're paid for it. The best I can do is observe the time > stamps on their messages. It quickly becomes apparent they're writing those > "hey guys, a little poison never hurt anybody" messages on company time. > > Steve, I highly respect you and your work. However, I would urge you to mount a > serious study into the agents of disinfomation working the Internet. There are > billions and billions of dollars at stake here and the big toxic sellers are not > going down without a fight. A conspiracy can be more than two guys getting > together to plot how to do you wrong. For instance, when giant companies A, B, > & C, all members of the Association of Chemical Manufacturers (or whatever), > independently send their detail men out to spread disinformation, I call that, > too, conspiracy. > > These people do not have our best interests at heart. They are there to make a > profit and only become interested in the enviornment when the toxic crap starts > seeping out of the ground neath *their* barbecue grill. > > And, to go back on topic, please discount a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g said by a GE seed > seller. I repeat: they *ain't* doing it for your health. > > Regards, > Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 19:22:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA19300 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:22:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04345; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:14:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA03951 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109Hpx-00072Y-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:12:34 -0800 Message-ID: <36BCDA1E.8F0324D8@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:11:11 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Information, mis or otherwise References: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 160 Dear Martha, The time is soon at hand when we really do not know anylonger: what is what because the geni is out of the bottle and the pollen is drifting all over the continent and earth. Soya is the worst followed by corn and other 'mass' crops. I do not know what method to use to shake the GE offspring out of the plant world or whether a plant can re-absorb GE manipulations. We will have to do a lot of BD-meditating and planting. Perhaps some of us should use GE plants and expose them to BD in order to find out what is going to happen to them under BD management. We must find an antidote. To be scared is not the answer (although I am, at times, too). We must be proactive and confront the challenge head on. Perhaps members of BD now know more about this problem. Regards Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars but with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? > After ordering, I found out that Novartis developed this melon, which is surprising because I didn't know they work with open pollinated varieties. So, how would one go about finding out which seed are 'tampered' with? What would be the point in creating an OP variety with some of the desirable traits this one has? > Do I send it back? Do I now put Fedco on the 'suspicious' list? Aside from growing your own, is there any way to determine the parentage of our food? > Martha > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 19:27:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA19341 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:27:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04992; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:19:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA04842 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:18:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109Hwx-0000Ez-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:19:48 -0800 Message-ID: <36BCDBD0.744A6785@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:18:25 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: BD Preparations (test in glass jars) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 161 Some of you may remember that we discussed the radiating characteristics of BD Preparations. It was (in the fall of 1998) indicated that preparations may be put into a glass jar and then, put into a compost: the result would be a fine compost. Well, my test did not work out (yet) - perhaps never. Who knows. The compost with the glass jar inserted (all compost preparations in seperate jars in distances of about 3 feet or more apart) has not done too well. The one beside it, into which the Preps were inserted directly, is doing much better. Of course, the test will have to be re-done (several times). I will try it again. My question at that time was this: What is the advantage of putting the Preps into glass jars? They will expire anyhow. As you know, Preps have a relatively short shelf life IF not kept in peatmoss. I'd say that they may be exhausted (spiritually, like an old apple) after about 5 or so months. If you meditate beside fresh preparations (and an old batch) you can see the difference. Whereas the fresh, depending on what Prep it is, will oscillate vibrantly or glow (like yearrows for example) the long-term-exposed Prep may look like a piece of charcoal that is burning deep inside. some of the light may still glow from the centre towards the periphery. Well, more tests are necessary. However, I, personally, cannot afford to lose too many piles of compost (I did it on our horsemanure pile) and my future tests will have to be on smaller piles, something like 5 x 3 x 3. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 19:36:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA19404 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:36:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA05843; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05691 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:26:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.5]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:37:05 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:28:20 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: roach remedies Message-ID: <3AC71B9E4B4674038525671100023CF1.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 162 Hello Friends, Would you advise the making of a pepper to get rid of roaches indoors? What are your thoughts on Roach bait pesticides (as if I have to ask...hydramethylnon)? I am talking about a small indoor space where there aren't too many roaches, but you know how that goes...plus humans and a cat! (Can't wait for Venus to be back in Scorpio I don't think) Thanks for any advice. I really do not like roaches and I lose my Buddhist tendencies when they're about! They bring out my retrograde side! Best Regards, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 20:03:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA19636 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:03:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA08466; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:55:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08172 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:53:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109IUi-0004qB-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:54:40 -0800 Message-ID: <36BCE3FA.C62E1360@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:53:15 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: roach remedies (Here is a suggestion) References: <3AC71B9E4B4674038525671100023CF1.0000000000000000@webcity> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 163 Do I ever feel with you, Jane! It will not be an easy answer and has a lot to do with our entire way of how we live. When I am in Hawaii or, recently, in Mexico, they made me shiver when running underneath the bed. They sound like Chips when you step on them........ it happened during the night. What would I do to get rid of them? Of course, as you know, there is a cause: food, humidity, unclean conditions (from neighbors for example where they run to to feed), animal feed, plants and so forth. Roaches are a very, very sensitive and tender group of beings. A Swiss (female) researcher has done a marvelous job observing their habits and procreation etc. and found that they are much more sensitive than assumed. As a matter of fact she showed that they are the first to be damaged when exposed to (so called safe) atomic power plants. She could show without a doubt that within several miles of an atomic power plant pretty much all roaches (and grasshoppers, butterflies etc.) are deformed. So, being highly sensitive, they must also be able to receive the tiniest application of homeopathic medicine or bug 'killer'. Do we want to fight fire with fire (the law of the simile)? We could do it but that may mean the death of at least one roach. So, if you are willing to sacrifice one roach, I'd make a fine mix out of it and shake it in water for, say 5 minutes. Then, add 9 units of water and shake the whole thing for a minute or two. (this is a D1 = solution, decimal). Now, take one unit (say 10 ml) out of it, add 9 ml and repeat the same process, again. Now, you have a D2. Go to a D3, D4, D5 all the way to, say a D12. This should not take longer than an hour. And now, spray this stuff in areas where the Roaches were living Or in the entire apartment. And now, you have to observe. I'd say, meditate on this for a while and find out whether you need a D12 or more or less. Each area, each animal etc. needs a somewhat different D-dilution. Incidentally, if there are suddenly more Roaches, you need to use a different dilution. When we use chemicals, we let the chemical company take care of our problem. With the purchase of a chemical killer (also other chemicals), we strengthen their influence (on us and our environment) and, in turn, weaken the efforts that help us 'green this planet'. We have incredible power at our disposal. Have you ever looked into the perfume and chemical cabinet at friends (when you pay a visit?) I sometimes do. There are hundreds of dollars of plant fertilizers, fungicides, herbicides, chemicals of all kinds, perfumes, sprays, traps etc. etc. in these closets. It is shocking. And now, add all these closets (costs) together. There must be hundreds of millions of dollars stowed away in those hideous gas chambers. Hope it did not get too long. Let me know whether my idea works. Regards Ferdinand PS It may be also significant on which day (or hour) you make the dilution. Can U do a bit research? Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Hello Friends, > Would you advise the making of a pepper to get rid of roaches indoors? What > are your thoughts on Roach bait pesticides (as if I have to > ask...hydramethylnon)? > > I am talking about a small indoor space where there aren't too many > roaches, but you know how that goes...plus humans and a cat! (Can't wait > for Venus to be back in Scorpio I don't think) > > Thanks for any advice. I really do not like roaches and I lose my Buddhist > tendencies when they're about! They bring out my retrograde side! > > Best Regards, > Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 20:25:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA19879 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:25:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA10602; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:16:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10299 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:13:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.5]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:23:50 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:15:04 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: GE Message-ID: <396DB6AEE515118B852567110002D169.000674BC85256711@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 164 Thank you for your as usual thoughtful reply, Steven. I suppose I do sound as if I sit in judgement upon those involved in the business of GE. But please understand that my judgement is based upon heartfelt intuition and not logical examination of the facts. I don't believe this is necessary. Here in NY, this week 41 shots were fired into a black man as he stood in his doorway in the Bronx because he was SUSPECTED of reaching for a weapon after 4 white policemen decided that he looked like a suspected rapist. He had no weapon in his hand. Our mayor immediately defended these policemen and their actions. They have been assigned desk duty--no NOT taken off the force, pending investigation. Watching the news footage, it was shameful to see the malevolent grin on one of the officer's faces as the media looked on. I am ashamed of this police force which increasingly thinks that brute force and violence is the only path. I am ashamed of a mayor that would defend this police state "pending an investigation". I am appalled at the level of violence that has become acceptable in our society. Do I sit in judgement? Well, hell yes, I guess I do! But I don't think my words are sizzling rhetoric. There is nothing rhetorical about my belief that these people should be held accountable. I believe there are times when "judging" the immoral acts of individuals but even more importantly, of leaders (this includes the police force, politicians and giants of industry) is a necessity, no--it is our duty to stand up and be heard! To say to all those good folks who are " in those corporate labs and board rooms (who) are passionately certain they are motivated by basically good impulses" that there is more at stake here than the present concern for making money! It is just this sort of myopic vision that has brought us nuclear waste, political waste, and wasted resources. How many so called technological advances, all with good intentions, have brought a tide of death as a by product? When will our culture learn to look beyond the "bottom line" and immediate gratification? This is the real patience required here...that industry be held accountable BEFORE they release their inventions upon an unsuspecting public--especially one with such serious ramifications. Why must we wait till there is catastrophic proof to convince them of their immoral acts? I am tired of poor people being blamed for the welfare state. I am tired of the public being told if they don't like what some giant megalithic transnational corporation is doing that they merely shouldn't buy their product or buy their stock, or in fact, to wait and see. You so rightly and beautifully state "My personal call to action is clear -- acknowledge the problems and dangers,name them, and then put my energy into spreading the word and supporting what is life affirming: organics, biodynamics, and CSA." I would add that it is time to take a moral stand and yes, JUDGE them--not to punish but to name what is evil in the face of what is good. I see that there is danger here, because what is evil for me, is business as usual for another. Who is to say what is good and what is bad. But honestly, Steven, in your heart, do you believe that there is any good that can come from a giant business making money deceptively off the sweat of third world farmers, seducing them with fertilizer and cheap seed and taking away their connection to the cycle of life with the other hand? What good can the sowing of fear and distrust amongst farmer neighbors to be Monsanto's police bring to our cultures? "What part does it play in the larger spiritual evolution of humanity and the hoop?" you ask. Things have become so polarized, isn't that where we stand in the hoop? It is time to take a stand on this, Steven. You strike me as a leader. One doesn't have to believe in conspiracy theories or occult anything to see the overt antagonism to life with this GE mess. Their intentions aren't hidden in any way. You said so yourself, so why do you insist on non-judgement, on waiting for disaster to convince others that this is madness and folly? Yes, we must support the good Life affirming principles of community, gardening, csa's; but I believe it is time to take a stand and speak out against immoral materialist disregard of all that is sacred! Yes, by all means, let us affirm that which is good, but not in the absence of naming that which is evil! Respectfully, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 20:31:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA19969 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:31:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA11134; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:21:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11026 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:21:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp249.cy-net.net [208.21.195.58]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA21783 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:36:17 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5205.DD7E2B20@FLYLO>; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:21:15 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5205.DD7E2B20@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: roach remedies (Here is a suggestion) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:21:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE5205.DD7E2B20" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 165 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5205.DD7E2B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This idea is not going to appeal to everyone, however being in Central = Texas, roaches are usually a major problem. I have found that if I don't = make attempts to rid my close yards and corrals of fire ants, I don't = have a roach problem.=20 Most livestock raisers in our area have a terrible problem with = intestinal worms in their stock, and vets recommend deworming every 30 - = 45 days. I don't. I deworm the females (cattle, goats, llamas) the day they have = babies, while they're still penned away from the other stock, and not = exposing a worm medication to the general soil area.=20 I'm not quite ready to pronounce fire ants as beneficials yet, but I = think if we work with them, there is a lot more productivity to be had = than if we eradicate them along with the things they might be feeding = on. (roaches, worm egg cysts, etc.) When I lived in Central America, the ants would occasionally go on a = march and the locals just sealed everything up as best they could, left = the home for a day, and when they got back, ouila, no scorpions, = roaches, or other bugs that dwell close to mankind.=20 I admit I'm still not too happy when I see fire ants tending to their = aphid dairies on my eggplants, however. But, I know some eggplants are = more prone to attack, and I've learned which to avoid growing during the = prime fire ant season. Once again, I must apologize for my posts. My MS Office program seems to = be cratering and crumbling and parts are definitely missing that would = allow me to retool the Outlook formatting. martha ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5205.DD7E2B20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig8BAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAKgAAAFJFOiByb2FjaCByZW1lZGllcyAoSGVyZSBpcyBhIHN1Z2dlc3Rp b24pAEYOAQWAAwAOAAAAzwcCAAYAEwAVAA4ABgAaAQEggAMADgAAAM8HAgAGABMACQAaAAYAGgEB CYABACEAAAAzMzU5NTYzQUVBQkREMjExQjExMTAwQzBGMDI5NjgyMQDxBgEDkAYAAAgAACEAAAAL AAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAYMJwJzhS vgEeAHAAAQAAACoAAABSRTogcm9hY2ggcmVtZWRpZXMgKEhlcmUgaXMgYSBzdWdnZXN0aW9uKQAA AAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+UjgncDpWWTS96hHSsREAwPApaCEAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAA HgAfDAEAAAASAAAAZmx5bG9AdHhjeWJlci5jb20AAAADAAYQmC7EswMABxDBBAAAHgAIEAEAAABl AAAAVEhJU0lERUFJU05PVEdPSU5HVE9BUFBFQUxUT0VWRVJZT05FLEhPV0VWRVJCRUlOR0lOQ0VO VFJBTFRFWEFTLFJPQUNIRVNBUkVVU1VBTExZQU1BSk9SUFJPQkxFTUlIQVZFRgAAAAACAQkQAQAA ANQEAADQBAAAlAYAAExaRnX3qLhLdwAKAQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxPlAoB9CoF1YwBQ CwMLYEBuZzEwMzMMYGyKbgIgZQumIFRoBAD0IGkBAGETAAQgEfAFQARnbwuAZyB0byA4YXBwEzAD IBQxZXYFBJB5EgEsIGhvdzEVAiBiZRPyC4AgQwkJ8HRyFKFUZXhhbnMVgANgANBoB5EKwGWQIHVz dQdAbHkUUGogAMBqBbFwA2ACYGVQbS4gSRWQYRUQIPECEHVuZBQgD4AFQAaQtRnhZAIgJwVAAMBr GED9GuB0GbAFMAQgFDEFEBqgmm0YwGMJAA+wIHkLEV8YARqRBaEW8QQgbxsgZv5pGDEAcBxwFYAb RhoTE0BvF6MZWAqiCoBNHWAFQGzGaRUQIgBvY2sXkAtw/w+wD6AWcghhGBITQCAlHDDtHmBpGZEZ ViAD8BrAFnGvHDAiAAuAFKF3BbBtIzP/GsAWMAXAInMVgB4CFRAccfsJcAWgbQeAGpEBACaSE/IJ FQMgMw/gLSA0NeEbUGF5cy4hhBtFGdI/KSQnEhpQGbAHQAeRKGN/HBEZoBWAE9Aa4BdxGKBh8QDA cykgLGMqoScSGMDdGhNiAaAIkBdxdxLQJOH9L0InGDEmIRigGVAJ8BIQ+RqgYXcvEQNSLGMToBfg 9ydrE5IXQHAdYBPyE0AsI+kHgGRpLUFpAiAUIixy7mcJ8ASQFKFzE+ADICPCmSFmSSclcBOScXUl oPsYQCPRZC8hFEAZYRHwGoD+YxpBHwYUUAQgFiASEB7wNmMHMQQgeQ/AFYBidf8FQBnwGsALgCKw GxEVwCaC9yKwJZMnIW0VgDMCGEAS4d8TQAkAG6EFsCTzZBCwJjD+diWgORMWIBoBGqMDoDyk/zaR NWMwoyVwB0ACIBQQPVadPDNnHIEvUilwZ2gFQL9AQSywNVEUAQIgGdAoF6XTMEEsMmVnFBBjKsAf YtEPwGMuKSGEVxfgA6DvGfAiMhqgFolBB4AFEC1A/z3jOkQmkBHQGqAikC1AAJDfAiAYkxPQRQEY 03IgwR4C7yxyCQAtQB6RahhgBUAPsN8s4RqgFQNDQxhQcDqUIgH/L0MFoEphLhEBcSxjFaAHgP8a USOhKpIn1DBgR8EvQxPQ/0RBANAnwQhgAxBJgRHwJ3D9BaFwNbEXeFMRBcAy9Dvg+0ODGuFkFcAx cR1EFDEDgdprC4BkN3cUUGQpcDwB/zgBMUQTkhQwFEAPgBRwGMD/UfMZ8A+wOeocMBqQE/UnJP8U YBLQKQELcAiBHqEDoB0R30ZBC1EfUxWlGdBCO/Afgv5rEfAH4DbgUNFdxxgTPvb/EhAUIwJAUuMe AjfwGjEZoN8KwDHSMGEgwRQydhPgGqD/CcAVsBPyP3AFEBQCLIEZYL8HcR7nTYI24EUgIYRPOcLs YWcLcR+CbU1SFGAI8fhnaXpQ5B0RNGEccBnQ9k0YwAXhTwEgNXAk8wnA/y5QWoImwUAUBQBBwWTz HgP8cnUG0CIwbHUKsWCFAQH/C4A4kRixKXAEEGUEGuFKRP8YkV+RUNEcog/AWZAUsSyB9k878AkA byKwUQEAwAJAfxPxKuVL8RrBIYRzqBEhafwzNgFAGWEcMD+QIYQQcQIAdjADABAQAAAAAAMAERAA AAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcw4G1qgTZSvgFAAAgw4G1qgTZSvgELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAA AwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAO hQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBC gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAjAc= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5205.DD7E2B20-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 6 21:47:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA20685 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:47:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA19329; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:39:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net (eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net [207.109.240.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA19064 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:37:06 -0500 (EST) From: jrei@uswest.net Received: (qmail 10881 invoked by alias); 7 Feb 1999 02:38:30 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-bdnow@envirolink.org@fixme Received: (qmail 10873 invoked by uid 0); 7 Feb 1999 02:38:29 -0000 Received: from dialupb144.eugn.uswest.net (HELO pop.eugn.uswest.net) (209.180.176.144) by eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 1999 02:38:29 -0000 Message-ID: <36BCFBE1.A744D801@pop.eugn.uswest.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 18:35:14 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Information, mis or otherwise References: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 166 Martha, Don't mean to surprise you, but if you went through all of the gardening catalogs and took all of the open pollinated and the popular hybrid varieties that home and market gardeners have been growing for years and then looked at the seed of those varieties that was being grown/produced by companies that had active, ongoing genetic engineering projects, you would eliminate roughly 80% of those varieties. This is why smaller companies like ours have our own research projects based on traditional breeding methods to safely bring new OP and hybrid varieties to the market. As the large multinational companies have bought up smaller seed producers to increase their market share and to acquire germplasm, they have bought the companies that have produced these older varieties for years. The reality is, that if companies like ours do not buy these OP and other old favorites from them they will be discontinued and won't be available anywhere. These companies do have a distinct advantage in seed production with fields in the Southern hemisphere and have the size to quickly harvest and clean seed. If companies, like ours, would have to take on more of this production, the price of seed would increase quite dramatically. Joel @ TSC Martha Wells wrote: > Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars but with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? > After ordering, I found out that Novartis developed this melon, which is surprising because I didn't know they work with open pollinated varieties. So, how would one go about finding out which seed are 'tampered' with? What would be the point in creating an OP variety with some of the desirable traits this one has? > Do I send it back? Do I now put Fedco on the 'suspicious' list? Aside from growing your own, is there any way to determine the parentage of our food? > Martha > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 09:10:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26262 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:10:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21216; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:02:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA20135 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:49:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33963-488>; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:50:21 -0400 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:50:21 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: biodynamics Subject: Re: OFF NSOGA's Bio Tech Paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 167 Hi All; After my post the other day about the Nova Scotia Organic Grower's Assoc. Bio- Tech Paper..Janet Wallace got several responses from people on the BDNOW list. She sent me the following for those interested in obtaining a copy (copies)... This has been volunteer effort with writers across Canada finding time to do research and submit articles for this special publication...This is their way of contributing data for the consumer to read and understand what their food will be made of in the future... As Janet mentions she can't wait to have it out.. Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Janet Wallace wrote: > Hi Joan, > > I have just rec'd several messages following a message you sent to a > BD list-serv. I was wondering if you could send another message.. > Thanks -- it's going to the printers on Monday and I can't wait! > Janet > > > Saving Seed: genetic engineering & your food supply is a 24-page special > publication produced by the Nova Scotia Organic Growers Association. The > paper aims to describe the influence of genetic engineering on our food and > seed supply and suggest actions consumers can take. Specifically, Saving > Seed contains articles on genetically-modified organisms, Round-up ready > crops, Newleaf potatoes, Terminator technology, seedsaving, seed-sharing, > seedhouse consolidation and a list of seed companies that sell > open-pollinated seeds. > > If you would like a copy, please send $3.50 to: Janet Wallace, RR 1, > Margaretsville, NS, B0S 1N0. Canada. If you would like copies in bulk, > we are asking for $0.1.00/issue + shipping. > Please Email ahead for bulk so we can quote you a price for shipping and > handling. > > > > > Thanks, and if you have any questions, you can reach me at > > jwallace@istar.ca. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Janet Wallace > > > > Coordinator > > Nova Scotia Organic Growers Association > > http://www.gks.com/NSOGA > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 09:10:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26271 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:10:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21163; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:02:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19225 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:23:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.173] (pm3mbr3-67-173.intrepid.net [206.102.67.173]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13814 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:24:32 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36BCDBD0.744A6785@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:11:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: BD Preparations (test in glass jars) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 168 >Well, more tests are necessary. However, I, personally, cannot afford to >lose too many piles of compost (I did it on our horsemanure pile) and my >future tests will have to be on smaller piles, something like 5 x 3 x 3. > >Regards Ferdinand Dear Ferdinand - Thanks for your efforts and observations! For my clarification: please explain to me how you would 'lose' a compost pile by doing this test. From my assumptions, I would think you could still put fresh preps into the essentially 'finished' pile and, if I remember correctly what Hugh Courtney told me, have compost which would carry the BD forces out to the field in relatively order. (I do understand that you have apparently lost the mediating power of the preps through the composting process.) Thanks -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 09:10:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26272 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:10:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21067; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:02:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19219 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:23:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.173] (pm3mbr3-67-173.intrepid.net [206.102.67.173]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13809 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:24:28 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36BCFBE1.A744D801@pop.eugn.uswest.net> References: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:59:34 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Information, mis or otherwise Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 169 Dear Joel Do you know anything more about this case in particular? > Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from >Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars but >with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? I wasn't clear from your response. Is this OP melon simply "previously owned" by Novartis, or is is "suspect" seed now, which would make FEDCO "suspect" as a seed supplier. (I admit, I'm starting to feel uneasy about dealing with 'coop' seed companies because it is so difficult for them to 'control' the education levels of their contributing memebers.) -Allan igg@igg.com >Martha, >Don't mean to surprise you, but if you went through all of the gardening >catalogs and took all of the open pollinated and the popular hybrid >varieties that home and market gardeners have been growing for years and >then looked at the seed of those varieties that was being grown/produced >by companies that had active, >ongoing genetic engineering projects, you would eliminate roughly 80% of >those varieties. This is why smaller companies like ours have our own >research projects based on traditional breeding methods to safely bring >new OP and hybrid varieties to the market. As the large multinational >companies have bought up smaller >seed producers to increase their market share and to acquire germplasm, >they have bought the companies that have produced these older varieties >for years. The reality is, that if companies like ours do not buy these OP >and other old favorites from them they will be discontinued and won't be >available anywhere. These >companies do have a distinct advantage in seed production with fields in >the Southern hemisphere and have the size to quickly harvest and clean >seed. If companies, like ours, would have to take on more of this >production, the price of seed would increase quite dramatically. >Joel @ TSC > > >Martha Wells wrote: > >> Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from >>Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars >>but with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? >> After ordering, I found out that Novartis developed this melon, which is >>surprising because I didn't know they work with open pollinated >>varieties. So, how would one go about finding out which seed are >>'tampered' with? What would be the point in creating an OP variety with >>some of the desirable traits this one has? >> Do I send it back? Do I now put Fedco on the 'suspicious' list? Aside >>from growing your own, is there any way to determine the parentage of our >>food? >> Martha >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef >> Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 09:38:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26453 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:38:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA24306; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:31:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA24017 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:28:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109VDp-00059p-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 06:30:05 -0800 Message-ID: <36BDA322.35B866F0@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 06:28:51 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD Preparations (test in glass jars) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 170 Dear Allan, If you do not inocculate a compost relatively soon, that is within a few weeks at least, you loose a lot of Nitrogen. In addition, as soon as manure is piled on high, it is starting to heat up. And you may get an anaerob or uneven decomposing process. I am often in awe when I see 'my BD composts' and, beside it, the small test compost which has to suffer through all kinds of 'illnesses' such as irregular decomposition, attack by weeds, rodents and, of course, the loss of N and other elements due to the inability to fix them properly. Field tests with composts that have been inocculated too late show very clearly that the crop is lacking in a variety of things (and not being a chemist or otherwise, but a simple man that observes) I can see huge difference whether this is on the grass field (meadows) or in the garden. I do not know what Hugh Courtenay said and one must be very specific. Personally, an old compost such as our horsemanure compost, will have to be integrated into a fresh compost and then I will inocculate it again. I'd never use it as such (at least on fields and vegetable patches). You invite too many pests, slugs and tiger worms etc. etc. Hope this will help. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >Well, more tests are necessary. However, I, personally, cannot afford to > >lose too many piles of compost (I did it on our horsemanure pile) and my > >future tests will have to be on smaller piles, something like 5 x 3 x 3. > > > >Regards Ferdinand > > Dear Ferdinand - Thanks for your efforts and observations! For my > clarification: please explain to me how you would 'lose' a compost pile by > doing this test. From my assumptions, I would think you could still put > fresh preps into the essentially 'finished' pile and, if I remember > correctly what Hugh Courtney told me, have compost which would carry the BD > forces out to the field in relatively order. (I do understand that you have > apparently lost the mediating power of the preps through the composting > process.) > > Thanks > > -Allan > igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 11:18:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA27244 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:18:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01535; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:06:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net (eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net [207.109.240.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01247 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:03:41 -0500 (EST) From: jrei@uswest.net Received: (qmail 1149 invoked by alias); 7 Feb 1999 16:05:07 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-bdnow@envirolink.org@fixme Received: (qmail 1122 invoked by uid 0); 7 Feb 1999 16:04:55 -0000 Received: from dialupb214.eugn.uswest.net (HELO pop.eugn.uswest.net) (209.180.176.214) by eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 1999 16:04:55 -0000 Message-ID: <36BDB8DE.CB466E13@pop.eugn.uswest.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 08:01:35 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Information, mis or otherwise References: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 171 Allan, I would have to go back in the records and look to find out the original company that bred Quetzali, but I have no reason to believe that it's any different now then it was when it was bred. My statement was to underscore the point that the large international seed companies have bought up most of the smaller companies that bred and introduced most of the older varieties. I think that most people would be astonished by the consolidation of seed companies over the past few years. It would be interesting to post such a chart and see what the reaction is. People must also realize that these large companies have many layers within the seed divisions. Companies like Novartis have divisions that serve the large commercial farmer with commodity seed like wheat and corn, the commercial vegetable farmers and finally the home gardener at the bottom. The people that manage the home garden divisions of these large companies are by in large intelligent, good people who have the best interests of the home gardener in mind. I personally know the manager for the home garden seed division of Novartis and we talked extensively at the ASTA meeting. They are all approaching the issue of GM varieties with kid gloves and will be very careful with any such introductions that can be accessed by the home gardener. Unfortunately after some of the posts that I have seen lately I feel that there is a general misunderstanding on how the vegetable seed industry has changed and just how it works. Lastly the work that FEDCO and other small seed companies do is vitally important and needs everyone's support. I'm sure they, like other conscientious seed companies, will make sure that there customers are kept fully informed. Regards, Joel Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Dear Joel > > Do you know anything more about this case in particular? > > > Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from > >Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars but > >with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? > > I wasn't clear from your response. Is this OP melon simply "previously > owned" by Novartis, or is is "suspect" seed now, which would make FEDCO > "suspect" as a seed supplier. (I admit, I'm starting to feel uneasy about > dealing with 'coop' seed companies because it is so difficult for them to > 'control' the education levels of their contributing memebers.) > > -Allan > igg@igg.com > > >Martha, > >Don't mean to surprise you, but if you went through all of the gardening > >catalogs and took all of the open pollinated and the popular hybrid > >varieties that home and market gardeners have been growing for years and > >then looked at the seed of those varieties that was being grown/produced > >by companies that had active, > >ongoing genetic engineering projects, you would eliminate roughly 80% of > >those varieties. This is why smaller companies like ours have our own > >research projects based on traditional breeding methods to safely bring > >new OP and hybrid varieties to the market. As the large multinational > >companies have bought up smaller > >seed producers to increase their market share and to acquire germplasm, > >they have bought the companies that have produced these older varieties > >for years. The reality is, that if companies like ours do not buy these OP > >and other old favorites from them they will be discontinued and won't be > >available anywhere. These > >companies do have a distinct advantage in seed production with fields in > >the Southern hemisphere and have the size to quickly harvest and clean > >seed. If companies, like ours, would have to take on more of this > >production, the price of seed would increase quite dramatically. > >Joel @ TSC > > > > > >Martha Wells wrote: > > > >> Speaking of Novartis, I bought open pollinated melon this order from > >>Fedco. It's called Quetzali, small, round, 'painted' like Moon & Stars > >>but with 12% sugars and few seeds in a smaller package. Great, huh? > >> After ordering, I found out that Novartis developed this melon, which is > >>surprising because I didn't know they work with open pollinated > >>varieties. So, how would one go about finding out which seed are > >>'tampered' with? What would be the point in creating an OP variety with > >>some of the desirable traits this one has? > >> Do I send it back? Do I now put Fedco on the 'suspicious' list? Aside > >>from growing your own, is there any way to determine the parentage of our > >>food? > >> Martha > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > >> Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 11:34:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA27375 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:33:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA02773; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:26:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02588 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.17]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:35:11 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:26:28 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: February 06, 1999 - February 12, 1999 Message-ID: <3A37A0AC50E2415D85256711005A4AD5.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id LAA02589 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 172 Calendar of the Soul [February 06, 1999 - February 12, 1999] Forty-fourth Week (February 2-8) In reaching for new sense attractions, Soul-clarity would fill, Mindful of spirit-birth attained, The world's bewildering, sprouting growth With the creative will of my own thinking. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ Ergreifend neue Sinnesreize Erfüllet Seelenklarheit Eingedenk Vollzogener Geistgeburt, Verwirrend Sprossend Weltenwerden Mit meines Denkens Schöpferwillen. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+44 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 17:38:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01092 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:38:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA10198; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:29:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10036 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:28:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-14.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.15]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id OAA12096 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:30:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902072230.OAA12096@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 13:14:03 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Definition of "Sustainable" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 173 Allan: A few days ago I suggested looking at Chinese methods of a few decades ago... The current ACRES USA carries a definition of "Sustainable" given by Lady Eve Balfour, one of the pioneers in the organic movement: "The criteria for a sustainable agriculture can be summed up in one word, 'permanence,' which means adopting techniques that maintain soil fertility indefinitely, that utilize as far as possible only renewable resources, that do not grossly pollute the enviornment, and that foster life energy [or if preferred, biological activity] within the soil and through the cycles of all the involved food chains." Woody From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 19:51:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA02492 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:51:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA26158; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:42:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ark.com (root@mars.ark.com [204.50.2.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25800 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:39:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.50.2.105] (io3p8.ark.com [204.50.2.105]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with SMTP id QAA04388 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:40:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199902080040.QAA04388@ark.com> Subject: moonwater Date: Sun, 7 Feb 99 16:41:01 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Lang Price To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 174 Hallo all: A friend of mine told me a while ago something about "Moonwater". This is water that has the influence of the light of the full moon before Easter in it. Apparently it has an incredible positive influence on plant growth and medicines etc. I am very interested in learning more about this, so would appreciate more info. Thank you. Marjan de Jong in wet British Columbia, Canada. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 20:18:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA02846 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:18:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA29717; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:09:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29329 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:06:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.24]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:16:56 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:08:08 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: (FWD) New York Gardens - Giuliani strikes again Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 175 ========================================================================= Hello, everyone, please take a moment to read this important notice about our city, and we hope you will sign the petition to preserve these lovely oases. Thanks - New York gardeners ************************************************************************* With 14,000 empty, buildable lots in New York City and only 750 community gardens, Mayor Giuliani plans to auction off over 120 thriving community gardens in May. This is the second auction in which gardens have been targeted. These gardens, many of them decades old, were established with the city's blessing on abandoned and vacant lots that had often been centers of drug and crime activity. New York City's gardens are known across the country. They are studied in our nation's schools. Their disappearance would mark not only a tragedy for the city, but would set a dangerous precedent for other cities across the country whose garden programs are struggling to survive. The Mayor thinks only a small minority care about the gardens. If he were made aware of the large numbers of people, not only in New York but across the nation, who care about this issue, he will be forced to reconsider his policies. Please take a moment to read this petition. Sign at the bottom if you agree and forward the petition to all the people you know who would support it. If you are the 50th, 100th, 150th...(etc) signature, please also e-mail the petition to: NYCgardens@cobite.com For more information about New York City community gardens and the efforts to save them, visit http://www.nycgardens.org/ PETITION IN SUPPORT OF NYC'S GARDENS Dear Mayor Giuliani, Community gardens represent one of the best and most all around positive developments in New York City. They are founded by working New Yorkers, thrive on principles of a true democracy, provide solace, learning, and pleasure to young and old, offer bridges across cultures and ethnic groups, offer space for a multitude of cultural activities, and turn neighborhoods and indeed the city as a whole into a more vibrant and healthy environment. New York's gardens have set a national example of innovative and successful public policy and urban renewal. They are studied and admired across the country. Their preservation represents a special opportunity to set a critical environmental benchmark in this issue and to evidence foresight for the cities of the future. We hereby ask that you withdraw the gardens from the auction list. Sincerely, 1. Myla Goldberg, Brooklyn, NY 2. Mark Leger, Brooklyn, NY 3. Julie Warsowe, Brooklyn, NY 4. Alan Chin, New York, NY 5. Jill Underwood, Brooklyn, NY 6. Ed Gilmartin, Brooklyn, NY 7. Daniel Kleinfeld, Manhattan, NY 8. Colin Young, Brooklyn, NY 9. Katherine Puma, New York, NY 10. Katherine Harber, New York, NY 11. Patrick Boyd, New York, NY 12. Jay Douglas, New York, NY 13. David Aron Damane, NY 14. Tim Albrecht, NY, NY 15. Dathan B. Williams 16. Gerry Geddes, NY, NY 17. Anthony Gaglione, Long Beach, NY 18. James Pericas, Long Beach, NY 19. Natalie Douglas, NYC, NY 20. D. Jay Bradley, Jersey City, NJ 20. Kate Strachan, NYC, NY 21. Allegra Millan, Brooklyn, NY 22. Patricia Hanley, NYC, NY 23. Terence Ford, Brooklyn, NY 24. Priso H. Epale, NY, NY 25. Rufus D. Muller NY, NY 26. Richard J. Sanchez NY, NY 27. Brian A. Nedvin CT 28. Anita Johnson, NY, NY 29. Claudia Waite, NY, NY 30. Timothy A. Bernard, Santa Rosa, CA 31. John Consedine, Santa Rosa, CA 32. Ben Gilbert, Santa Rosa, CA 33. Anne Atkinson, Santa Rosa, CA 34. Keith Johnson. Asheville, NC 35. Jane Sherry, NY, NY Don't forget that in order to 'sign' this petition, you need to cut and paste the entire message into a new e-mail, add your name and send the message. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 22:30:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04019 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:30:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17841; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:21:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17290 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.193] (pm3shep2-163-68.intrepid.net [209.190.163.68]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06038 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:19:09 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902072230.OAA12096@ns2.vphos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:05:37 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Definition of "Sustainable" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 176 >Allan: > >A few days ago I suggested looking at Chinese methods of a few decades ago... > >The current ACRES USA carries a definition of "Sustainable" given by Lady >Eve Balfour, one of the pioneers in the organic movement: "The criteria >for a sustainable agriculture can be summed up in one word, 'permanence,' >which means adopting techniques that maintain soil fertility indefinitely, >that utilize as far as possible only renewable resources, that do not >grossly pollute the enviornment, and that foster life energy [or if >preferred, biological activity] within the soil and through the cycles of >all the involved food chains." > >Woody Thanks, Woody. On the ATTRA home page they break the term down further by adding ECONOMIC and SOCIAL sustainability, in part, this means that the farm produces enough money to come back the next year and that a family doesn't have to put so much of their time into the farm that they fail as a family. Thanks for the definition. -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 22:30:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04028 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:30:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17735; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:20:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17278 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:17:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-143-182.s55.as2.hgt.erols.com [207.172.143.182]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id WAA13936 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:19:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36BE56E8.AFA05B6D@erols.com> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 22:15:52 -0500 From: Rex Harrill Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Re: Johnny's GE seeds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 177 A few days ago I expressed concern that the companies that sell GE seeds were being portrayed as "just ordinary folks." I bluntly said that I think 'conspirators' is a more fitting label. Of course, while there are a few who understand my cause for alarm, there are others who automatically raise an eyebrow at the "C" word. Read this message and see if you can understand why I may never be able to back away from believing that Novartis and their ilk are conspirators. Can not even the most casual reader see that they would have the same 'concern' for our health in regards to GE seeds that they have with drugs? ----------------------------------------------------- Here's some info on Ritalin and ADD excerpted from "The Readers Digest", Dec 1998. "Only 5% of children have ADD yet in some schools 20% or more of the children may be on Ritalin" "Sales of methylphenidates (Ritalin) have increased from $109 million in 1992, to $336 million in 1996. Critics charge that the rush to Ritalin is spearheaded by both Novartis, the manufacturer of Ritalin and CHADD (Children and Adults with Attention Deficit Disorder), a 500 chapter non-profit organization that recieved $748,000 from 1991 to 1994 and $448,000 in 1995 from the drug company (Novartis)." "Most of the pamphlets in schools have been funded or provided by Novartis or CHADD". "Insurance Companies in the US have also facilitated ADD's over diagnosis and Ritalin's rise. First because they refuse to pay for the several hours it takes to properly diagnose the disorder and rule out other conditions; second because insurers reimburse for pills, yet reject costlier behavioural treatments or family counselling." "Younger teachers are far more prone to embrace the ADD diagnosis. They simply do not have the skills of managing the diverse needs of the size of class like teachers of the past." "Information has also come out that the schools actually recieve $400 per student that they successfully get onto Ritalin from the drug company as well. This is appalling." Just say no! Best of Health! Saul Pressman ----------------------------------------------------------- In closing, and although it's another topic, I'd like to mention that few people are aware that a child taking prescribed Ritalin is barred from later entry into the armed forces. Surely, even those who don't approve of the military understand that we can ill afford to hamstring our children without their knowing permission. Regards, Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 7 22:30:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04029 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:30:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17897; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:21:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17308 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:17:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.102.67.193] (pm3shep2-163-68.intrepid.net [209.190.163.68]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06042 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:19:12 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36BDB8DE.CB466E13@pop.eugn.uswest.net> References: <01BE51D8.5D6C0A60@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:13:15 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Information, mis or otherwise Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 178 Dear Joel - Sorry, again I don't know that I follow what you are saying below. Do you have time to clarity the concepts you think that some of us have missed? And what do you mean by "will make sure that their customers are kept fully informed."? Thanks for this post and for your time! -Allan igg@igg.com >They are all approaching the issue of GM varieties with kid gloves and >will be >very >careful with any such introductions that can be accessed by >the home >gardener. Unfortunately after some of the posts that I have seen >lately I feel >that there is a general misunderstanding on how the >vegetable seed industry has >changed and just how it works. Lastly the >work that FEDCO and other small seed >companies do is vitally important and needs everyone's support. I'm sure they, >like other conscientious seed companies, will make sure that there customers >are kept fully informed. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 10:40:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11853 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:40:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA18091; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:31:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17466 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:27:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.203] (client-151-196-125-203.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.203]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA03459 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:29:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902081529.KAA03459@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:27:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 179 I want to acknowledge the harrowing tales and trends related in this thread by Rex and Ferdinand, and alluded to by Jane -- and to acknowledge also that, yes, these are just the tip of a massive corporate iceberg. Sunday's edition of The New York Times carried a story in the Week In Review section detailing how many hundreds of former CIA and KGB agents are now working together to provide "intelligence" for for transnational corporations. So, yes, I know this is real, even without judging the individuals. I've always assumed that our BDNow list is monitored, and would be surprised to learn otherwise. I think we are basically all together in our general view of corporate GE machinations and so forth, if not in what we consider to be appropriate and effective responses. If I understand correctly, the remark I made in my initial post that drew your attention and protests had to do with urging a period of 25 years of more of evaluation. So let me write a bit more about that. Though I may have expressed myself unclearly, never was it in my mind that the public ought to blissfully munch away on mutated food for a quarter of a century or more before forming an opinion. What I wanted to convey was the thought that Johnny's -- and every other corporation or individual involved with the whole vast scope of GE work -- take that period of time (at minimum) to pay attention and evaluate their intentions before putting any of this the widely out into the world. The GE genie is out of the bottle but good, and spread across the landscape (and the dinner plate). The whole GE THING I feel is an crucial, revolutionary and probably -- ultimately -- unstoppable impulse, signified cosmically at this stage by the transit of Uranus (and now Neptune) through Aquarius. The impulse to experiment with genes is in many respects Promethean (Uranian), and it surely involves hubris. This time the fire stolen from the gods is information and insight about the structure of life. Obviously this is a fire that can burn badly. And thus for me as subject that warrants philosophical inquiry as well as action of some kind. The GEnie is not going back in the bottle till something drastic happens -- and even then it seems unlikely to me the GEnie will get stuffed all the way back in. I am firm in my conviction that it would be the path of wisdom for the corps and scientists to slow down. Effete wishful thinking? Probably, but no more so than wishing that they would stop altogether, or even aggressively demanding that they stop altogether. We have the history of nuclear energy as kind of a parallel guide in this. I took my stand on these issues a long time ago. More recently Trauger Groh and I dedicated a lengthy and exhaustively researched chapter of "Farms of Tomorrow Revisited" to laying out the whole scope and impact of industrial ag and GE, as best we could picture them. But still it's only about 1/20th of the book. We had something else we wanted to say, something else we wanted to pour our energy into.... I write my letters to Congress, tell my friends, and speak to the GE issue when I'm in various public forums. But I get vivid feedback. Whenever I bring the subject up in public I see the audience's eyes glaze over and their bodies shift uncomfortably. They check out emotionally and intellectually. I feel as if I am alone in the room. The public doesn't know about this issue, and in the main it seems they actively don't want to know. The Hindu people have a concept called "Avidia" (sp?). Roughly translated it means "not wanting to know," usually because a particular truth is just too upsetting and painful. That's where I think the public is on GE seeds, food and organisms. I persist. I always metion the corporate GE axis and go into some detail -- but then, as I have come to learn what is effective, I shift gears and put the emphasis on what's in it for them -- and all of us -- going the route of organic, biodynamic, CSA, etc. That's what Trauger and I strove to do in our book as well. So in sum here's where I'm at. I acknnowledge GE food and corporate ag malfeasance as widespread and likely to increase. I condemn the actions but withold judgement of the people. I'm interested in all of this in a way and to a degree similar to my interest in the presidential impeachement trial. But it just doesn't take me very far, or anywhere I want to go. Again, I say to Johnny's and all the rest, consider the wisdom of extended patience and care. And again I affirm where I focusing my energy -- on what I see as new, healthier models that will render the existing obsolete. Respectfully, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 10:41:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11883 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:41:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA18386; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:33:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18255 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:32:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from van-dsp-0163.direct.ca ([204.174.250.63] helo=ferdy) by edam.direct.ca with smtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 109shd-0001hI-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:34:25 -0800 Message-ID: <36BFAC1D.107E@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:31:41 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE seeds References: <36BE56E8.AFA05B6D@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 180 Rex Harrill wrote: > > A few days ago I expressed concern that the companies that sell GE seeds > were being portrayed as "just ordinary folks." I bluntly said that I > think 'conspirators' is a more fitting label. Of course, while there are a few > who understand my cause for alarm, there are others who automatically > raise an eyebrow at the "C" word. > Dear Rex, I agree with you and on the other hand, I understand the (world) view of those who think that the folks at 'Roundup' are nice people. They may be nice people, but their deeds are corrupted. You see, we have come to a point in time where, to use Steiner's words, we have to become conscious. Conscious of what is going on. We must not assume! We ought to analyze more and more of what is going on and ask ourselves: Is the person next door, who is digging deep holes in his garden once a week, is he planting trees, is he digging the earth or is he throwing murdered people into it? (as happenen in Belgium or other places). We simply cannot assume any longer that the person with the nice face, the tye and suit, with the friendly smile is a good and wholesome person. The world is falling apart (within ourselves!). Many years ago I took part in a demonstration AGAINST nuclear power plants (in London) and some 700,000 people came together. It was impressive. Yet, the same people, demonstrating, used the equivalent of at least one week's production of electricity of a huge power plant, as we figured out afterwards. I felt ashamed. On one hand, I demonstrated against, and on the other, I used from the very same utility that produced the electricity. What a situation! What can be done? Ghandi comes to mind! We have to become conscious. Steiner said this at every possible moment! This, our age, is the dawn of the consciousness soul. We must ask ourselves how a thing does function; how it is made. He indicated in a lecture that, by using a switch, a simple light switch, by not knowing how this thing works, that we are acting antisocial. And I can see this more and more in what I, as an exmaple, are doing. Only if and when we become aware of what we are thinking, feeling and do, will there be a true light at the end of the tunnell and the spiritual world can offer new solutions. As long as we are happily assuming (because we like to be lulled into a good feeling), as long as we do not want to wake up, the spiritual world cannot help. It really cannot.It is far more important that we find out the truth about something than 'leaving good alone' - that sort of attitude will make the final pain much greater. I experience this on an almost daily basis. And those who believe that people at 'Roundup' are loveable folks are (as long as they do not take their deeds into cosideration) right. We in BD, and everybody for that mater, we must bring the world together again. We must demask mass schidzophrenia into which our society has fallen. That is one of our tasks. Kind regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 13:31:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16926 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:31:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA20861; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:23:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20376 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:21:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (tor-pm-1-20.netrover.com [205.209.27.20]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03082 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:22:31 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:17:20 -0500 Message-ID: <01be538f$443c8c00$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 181 I agree with Steven's thoughtful perspective....one which seems to understand the inexhorable nature of the working creative energy in our world, and trusting in its ways, ultimately.The non-judgemental attitude is key. Formerly, I have often thought in relationship to any widespread Life-contrary practises, that the "perpetrators", both wilful and unaware, might respond to an un-impassioned, amassed, documented critique of their doings and their projected implications in our common earthome. I do not mean to invoke a "shaming", but rather a specific- intent - of appealing to a final, perhaps latent, sense of integrity in those nvolved --- to at least consider the possibility that their programs and actions might result in no less a historical catastrophy than all the various holocausts already documented. Does any person/corporation really want it to be a matter of record that they participated, albeit unknowingly or dutifully, in such a dubious legacy? No doubt some will make that choice, unbending. That percentage who are capable of being stirred to question the Life-relevance of their beliefs/actions will likely only do so through a subconscious impulse.This impulse is backed by the natural compulsion which is the result of the kind of circum-STANCE which Steven describes, and no doubt, personifies to whatever extent. This is to be emulated; of course not just in our language. Effete? In effect, I don't think so. Never underestimate the power of spiritual expression! Doormat?- no. The effects of the seemingly unstoppable Promethean impulse are moderated by the degree of actualized faith in the Integrative process. In fact, I would say, that the seeming destructive thrashings are a [clumsy] reaction to the Integrative process...a kind of mimicking of creative nature inherent in all the cosmic cycles...wannabe-1-2. This is a significantly different perspective, and a challenging one to maintain/embody in daily life. regards. .......manfred palmer -----Original Message----- From: Steven McFadden To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:33 AM Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds > >I want to acknowledge the harrowing tales and trends related in this thread >by Rex and Ferdinand, and alluded to by Jane -- and to acknowledge also >that, yes, these are just the tip of a massive corporate iceberg. Sunday's >edition of The New York Times carried a story in the Week In Review section >detailing how many hundreds of former CIA and KGB agents are now working >together to provide "intelligence" for for transnational corporations. > >So, yes, I know this is real, even without judging the individuals. I've >always assumed that our BDNow list is monitored, and would be surprised to >learn otherwise. > >I think we are basically all together in our general view of corporate GE >machinations and so forth, if not in what we consider to be appropriate and >effective responses. If I understand correctly, the remark I made in my >initial post that drew your attention and protests had to do with urging a >period of 25 years of more of evaluation. So let me write a bit more about >that. > >Though I may have expressed myself unclearly, never was it in my mind that >the public ought to blissfully munch away on mutated food for a quarter of a >century or more before forming an opinion. What I wanted to convey was the >thought that Johnny's -- and every other corporation or individual involved >with the whole vast scope of GE work -- take that period of time (at >minimum) to pay attention and evaluate their intentions before putting any >of this the widely out into the world. > >The GE genie is out of the bottle but good, and spread across the landscape >(and the dinner plate). The whole GE THING I feel is an crucial, >revolutionary and probably -- ultimately -- unstoppable impulse, signified >cosmically at this stage by the transit of Uranus (and now Neptune) through >Aquarius. The impulse to experiment with genes is in many respects >Promethean (Uranian), and it surely involves hubris. This time the fire >stolen from the gods is information and insight about the structure of life. >Obviously this is a fire that can burn badly. And thus for me as subject >that warrants philosophical inquiry as well as action of some kind. > >The GEnie is not going back in the bottle till something drastic happens -- >and even then it seems unlikely to me the GEnie will get stuffed all the way >back in. I am firm in my conviction that it would be the path of wisdom >for the corps and scientists to slow down. Effete wishful thinking? >Probably, but no more so than wishing that they would stop altogether, or >even aggressively demanding that they stop altogether. We have the history >of nuclear energy as kind of a parallel guide in this. > >I took my stand on these issues a long time ago. More recently Trauger Groh >and I dedicated a lengthy and exhaustively researched chapter of "Farms of >Tomorrow Revisited" to laying out the whole scope and impact of industrial >ag and GE, as best we could picture them. But still it's only about 1/20th >of the book. We had something else we wanted to say, something else we >wanted to pour our energy into.... > >I write my letters to Congress, tell my friends, and speak to the GE issue >when I'm in various public forums. But I get vivid feedback. Whenever I >bring the subject up in public I see the audience's eyes glaze over and >their bodies shift uncomfortably. They check out emotionally and >intellectually. I feel as if I am alone in the room. The public doesn't >know about this issue, and in the main it seems they actively don't want to >know. The Hindu people have a concept called "Avidia" (sp?). Roughly >translated it means "not wanting to know," usually because a particular >truth is just too upsetting and painful. That's where I think the public is >on GE seeds, food and organisms. > >I persist. I always metion the corporate GE axis and go into some detail >-- but then, as I have come to learn what is effective, I shift gears and >put the emphasis on what's in it for them -- and all of us -- going the >route of organic, biodynamic, CSA, etc. That's what Trauger and I strove >to do in our book as well. > >So in sum here's where I'm at. I acknnowledge GE food and corporate ag >malfeasance as widespread and likely to increase. I condemn the actions but >withold judgement of the people. I'm interested in all of this in a way and >to a degree similar to my interest in the presidential impeachement trial. >But it just doesn't take me very far, or anywhere I want to go. Again, I >say to Johnny's and all the rest, consider the wisdom of extended patience >and care. And again I affirm where I focusing my energy -- on what I see as >new, healthier models that will render the existing obsolete. > >Respectfully, Steven > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 13:46:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA17462 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:46:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA23674; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:38:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23190 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:35:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.169] (pm3shep1-163-52.intrepid.net [209.190.163.52]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23818 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:37:11 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01be538f$443c8c00$LocalHost@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:37:58 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 182 Manfred Palmer wrote: >Formerly, I have often thought in relationship to any widespread >Life-contrary practises, that the "perpetrators", both wilful and unaware, >might respond to an un-impassioned, amassed, documented critique of their >doings and their projected implications in our common earthome. >I do not mean to invoke a "shaming", but rather a specific- intent - of >appealing to a final, perhaps latent, sense of integrity in those >nvolved --- to at least consider the possibility that their programs and >actions might result in no less a historical catastrophy than all the >various holocausts already documented. > > Does any person/corporation really want it to be a matter of record that >they participated, albeit unknowingly or dutifully, in such a dubious >legacy? >No doubt some will make that choice, unbending. > >That percentage who are capable of being stirred to question the >Life-relevance of their beliefs/actions will likely only do so through a >subconscious impulse.This impulse is backed by the natural compulsion which >is the result of the kind of circum-STANCE which Steven describes, and no >doubt, personifies to whatever extent. This is the basis of my request that we be vocal and numerous in responding to Robert Johnston and Johnny's Seeds proposal to carry 'some' GE seed. Johnny's is a 'edge' seed company, but one that is very much present in the US organic industry. Robert Johnston is one GE advocate who may reconsider 'supporting' this woefully unexamined movement if he had either an 'ethical awakening' or a vision of loss of revenue that was brought about by the raising of articulate voice like we have on this list. Is anyone game for drafting a group letter to Johnny's Seed in response to the earlier postings by them? -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 14:10:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18041 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28570; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:02:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd93.hotmail.com [207.82.252.157]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA27807 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:58:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 25687 invoked by uid 0); 8 Feb 1999 18:59:27 -0000 Message-ID: <19990208185927.25686.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:59:27 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY L3 Sulfur Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:59:27 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 183 Dear Ferdinand, So eloquently put. Excuse me for evesdropping on your mail to Pam, but something so un-selfish that looks to the central theme and problems of our current world, I cannot resist. While I would want to repsond with a emotional outburst of rage at humans who have overpopulated and still continue to do so with Mother Earth, you state the problem as is without passing judgement. Only wisdom can make such observation. It is that wisdom, I wish to consult. Wisdom that knows the current state of affairs must surley understand the attributes of the causes that led to this state. And if those causes are known, then surley a remedy to mediate and reverse somewhat the current state to a more sustaining level. A remedy such as this would be a landmark in human history. One that breaks the chain of remedies of civilization whose only solution is death and destruction. Is it possible to know and reverse that cause? Are humans the next dinosour? How do we live within environment without affecting her? And if we do so and create a place where the spirit freely moves, how do we secure that place for future generations to learn, ie. to protect it from the greedy that would gladly use it up, toss it away, and then go and threaten their friends and neighbors with dollars and cents. Is it possible? I do no wish to echo the sentiments of Ecclesiastics but please, please show me. I am a child and do not know how. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 14:50:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18765 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA05964; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:39:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA05210 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:35:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA05338; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:39:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:39:54 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org cc: igg@igg.com Subject: OFF / [globalnews] Re: New Report by Alliance for Environmental Innovation (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 184 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:24:03 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Phillips Reply-To: globalnews@egroups.com To: globalnews@egroups.com Cc: andrew.phillips@nyu.edu Subject: [globalnews] Re: New Report by Alliance for Environmental Innovation Y2K AND THE FERAL , (A shaman interpretation) As Y2K approaches our reliance on civilization as we currently understand it becomes clear. Y2K can be a metaphor that helps us understand how far removed we've become from Nature and how out of control we are when not connected to the machine. The silicon intelligence that runs computers has no soul. And it does not collect all the information. For instance, digital technology samples frequencies but as it does it eliminates information in ways analog technology does not. And our physical (analog) world is increasingly colonized by digital intelligence - systems that will shut down if their electric memory is not active. We have downloaded enourmous quantities of information into the machine. Lots of information accumulated and linked can become knowledge and with knowledge learned and intuited grows wisdom. I don't believe the machine will ever have wisdom but it seems to have knowledge. Don't know about (artificial) intelligence or even if that matters for it seems we are creating a different kind of "creature" which bypasses wisdom - cannot have it - for wisdom is linked to soul and feeling. Does silicon have its own soul? I think not. Not yet. Tracy Kidder's book "Soul of the New Machine" and more recent titles imply the machine could have soul but this is anthropomorphic interpretion - the machine is not and will never be human - we are human and our bodies are the outward manifestations of soul and spirit - of energy that will always be - transmuted to body, soul and memory. Increasingly I find memory to be an intriguing aspect to humanness. For it is through memory that we are able to interpret our world ourwardly. It is in dreams and imagination that we are "reminded" and connected to a larger intelligence that most of don't understand and certainly the machine doesn't. There will be some upheaval in the new year - and think how artificial is the new year - the millennium - it is just another natural cycle on which we have superimposed our way of thinking. The hysteria and paranoia is understandable and no doubt the press will be full of Y2K in coming weeks and months. It might be a good idea to stock up on some basics and think about water. Shit! can you believe this? And it might be a good idea to keep off the streets - clear out maybe - because if the system does go down the outburst on the streets won't be pretty. But this is the edge we all walk in this civilization. We are already marginalized - becoming more so in most cases. The edge may become more difficult to walk, to maintain balance as the State pushes into our lives more deeply. We need to be aware of what is happening around us, in our very community - who we are and what we are doing and how we might survive, better yet prosper in this atmosphere. It makes me realize how important it is to maintain some contact with Nature and with Earth; with the natural-earth qualities we share with each other. We are a feral lot out here on Underhill. Some have chosen this path and others have simply found themselves traveling in similar directions but something we seem to have in common is a sense of the feral and a delight in music, art, theater and sensuous delights in this spinning vortex we find ourselves. And so I've included some pagan ideas that may help link us in other ways to the world we all share. Andrew. Feral (from L. ferus, wild) 1 term applied to wild animals descended from tame stock, or to animals having become wild from a state of domestication or plants from a state of cultivation. 2 wild by nature, untamed; existing in a state of nature. 3 savage, brutal. Candlemas (Imbolc) According to the witches' calendar February is a time of passage, a prelude to birth, a time to expiate the souls of the dead and for personal and spiritual purification. In Roman times it was celebrated in a festival called LUPERCALIA overseen by priests called LUPERCI who took strips of goat skin and raced naked from the legendary grotto where ROMULUS and REMUS were suckled by a wolf - they lay the lash across the backs and buttocks of any woman they encounter thus assuring their fertility. This pagan ceremony was adopted by the Roman church and became THE PRESENTATION OF THE LORD. The goddess FEBRUA was evidently LUNIUS FEBRUATA also called LUNIO SOSPITA the savior. The celebration of her temple was with a procession of torches which became a procession of candles from every parish - a penitential procession to exorcise resurgent licentiousness and canal pagan behavior. But the candle is linked more deeply with a symbol of new life that reappears in nature by divine grace. CANDLEMAS (IMBOLC) with its flickering candles is linked to the leather straps brandished by the LUPERCI - the central candle from which the others are lit is the connection to the spirit of nature and the fertile essence. Fire is a symbol of divine energy and the cosmos. In March, according to the ancients, the perpetual fire of VESTA was extinguished and then relit but rubbing sticks, one of which had to be a fruit-bearing branch, to relight the flame - a metaphor for life and death. Oils of purification to anoint candles - 1/8th cup almond or olive oil 3 drop juniper oil 2 drops eucalyptus oil 1 drop pine oil Mix and anoint candles. Add benzoin tincuture as preservative and store in fridge." (From Llwellyn's 1999 Witches' Calendar - Llewellyn Publications P.O. BOX 64383, St. Paul MN 55164-0383) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fresh flowers are the perfect way to say "I love you". Shipped direct from the grower, Proflowers.com has arrangements from $29.95 plus S&H. Click here: http://offers.egroups.com/click/216/0 eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/globalnews Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 14:59:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19063 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA08514; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:51:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07871 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:48:34 -0500 (EST) From: OrgAgCons@aol.com Received: from OrgAgCons@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PCZKa20087 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:48:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9d14cabe.36bf3f93@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:48:35 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Agricultural Parks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 185 Dear Sirs, I am looking for information on an agricultural growing system were several farmers share the same land, invest together in equipment, market together and possibly have a compost operation together. This model could be anywhere U.S., Europe,ect. It could be Bio-Dynamic, organic or conventional If any has any information please contact me at my e-mail address OrgAgCons@aol.com or call me at 360-647-5779 Many thanks David Hamilton From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 15:01:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19155 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:01:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09248; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:54:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08571 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:51:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay01912435.acay.com.au [203.19.124.35]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA04035 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 04:10:01 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 06:53:33 +1100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: the error of their ways MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 186 To Steven,Ferdinand, Michael and others, Perhaps you can point out the error of their ways to those in the corporate giants, but that is not enough. Every night on the news the end results of those involved in the manufacture of armaments is graphically detailed. And yet they do not 'see'. Each person within the corporate structures is in fact a prisoner. They have no right to steer the juggernaut away from the path of maximum dollars regardless of cost to themselves and the Earth. The multi-nationals seem to become insatiable entities. I am a learner of BD. Are we in a state of chaos before a time of greater creative enery flows? Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 16:13:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20915 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA24508; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:05:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24168 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:03:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-70.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.70]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA23399 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:05:12 +1100 Message-ID: <000001be53a6$a6764d40$46431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: Demeter quote Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:23:25 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 187 Dear Alan, Just catching up on my backlog of messages. Don't know if you got a Demeter answer, but I quote you the one that has been used in NZ and is quite succinct. "Food bearing the Demeter symbol has been grown according to the strict standards of organic husbandry. The aim of Bio-Dynamic Agriculture is to restore and maintain the vitality and living fertility of our soils, and in so doing produce foods of the highest nutritional value." I would maybe put a mention of working with cosmic forces... but then one starts to get complicated . Best wishes, Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Friday, 5 February 1999 8:56 am Subject: Honeybee Quote >Not giving up with the lack of enthusiasm about defining Demeter >Certification, I'm looking for your favorite quote about THE HONEYBEE. One >from RS would be most welcomed, but what else do you have? > >-Allan Balliett >igg@igg.com > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 22:02:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA26769 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:02:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16229; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:51:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15762 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:48:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10A3Fc-0007AT-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:50:13 -0800 Message-ID: <36BFA218.AFFD4B2C@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 18:48:56 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY L3 Sulfur References: <19990208185927.25686.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 188 Dear Michael and all, Overpopulation is a very specific challenge to which wo-mankind has been exposed for the past 150 to 200 years. But it happened before, too. (Africa, Egypt etc. etc.) You see, we all have a physical body (at least those of us who live on this earth and can see and touch etc. each other). Now, that body follows certain rhythms. I have read somewhere that there are at least 270 measurable daily/weekly/monthly etc. rythms in our body (Liver, heart, brain, breathing, excretion, digestion, sweating, heartbeat to name only a few) there are micro-rhythms that are on top of general rythms such as the heart's. The heart beat is faster during the day than the night, and during illnesses it changes its rythm again, or during the period and so forth. Eons ago, our body members have all joined together in this symphony of rhythms. And each member, eyes, arms, veins, skin and so forth has given up a bit of its 'egotistic' selfish life so that we, as human spirits, can 'slip' (at the moment of birth) into this artful collection of body'parts'. Our temple is a work of art and needs to be treated with great care. Now, if you interrupt the rhythm of your sleep/wake life, if you eat chunk food, if you take drugs, listen to super loud music and so forth, if you start polluting your system with aggresive movies etc. you trigger a defense mechanism which is called PROCREATION (it is a wonderful word though) but, procreation manifested in excess leads to hyper sex and so forth, since the body wants to pass itself on. The body, in other words, wants to repair itself with a new body (reproduce). And if we pollute the atmosphere, or a political system (in Africa for example) we cause a disruption in the life of those who live there and, voila, the procreational forces go out of balance. Babyboomers come to mind.....! When we were kids we put white mice into a metal container and we quickly found out how to breed a lot of them fast....! The worse the condition the faster they would multiply - ! And so, this overpopulation thing is done to us by ourselves (perhaps not only but, with at least some very powerful management behind it - Anthroposophy brings in Ahriman - the prince of matter, if we would want to call it that way). So, remember, over pupulation does not happen because mankind is 'bad' per se. It is happening because we have fallen for materialism. The more we indulge into materialism the more we have to procreate because materialism works against our life (forces). It destroys the very basis of our life. And profiteering (as do the large corporations - and the small ones too, for that matter) is another form of materialism. If you believe in money and not in the spiritual aspect of money you are the worst materialist of all. Sorry for the detour - away from sulphur. But, BD wishes toa harmoniously balance this planet and, ultimately, bring about a sustainable number of people on this earth. I am convinced that this earth could easily support 10 billion people IF we would work it with mother earth in mind. There are 3 million people in British Columbia today. If that land was as populated as densely Switzerland (let alone Holland) it could be home of over one hundred million people. And BC is a fraction of Canada. Michael Smith wrote: > Dear Ferdinand, > > So eloquently put. Excuse me for evesdropping on your mail to Pam, but > something so un-selfish that looks to the central theme and problems of > our current world, I cannot resist. > > While I would want to repsond with a emotional outburst of rage at > humans who have overpopulated and still continue to do so with Mother > Earth, you state the problem as is without passing judgement. Only > wisdom can make such observation. > > It is that wisdom, I wish to consult. Wisdom that knows the current > state of affairs must surley understand the attributes of the causes > that led to this state. And if those causes are known, then surley a > remedy to mediate and reverse somewhat the current state to a more > sustaining level. A remedy such as this would be a landmark in human > history. One that breaks the chain of remedies of civilization whose > only solution is death and destruction. > > Is it possible to know and reverse that cause? Are humans the next > dinosour? Well, that would be something rather special since the Dinosaurs survived for millions and millions of years. They must have done something right, my friend. > How do we live within environment without affecting her? And if we do > so and create a place where the spirit freely moves, how do we secure > that place for future generations to learn, ie. to protect it from the > greedy that would gladly use it up, toss it away, and then go and > threaten their friends and neighbors with dollars and cents. Is it > possible? I do no wish to echo the sentiments of Ecclesiastics but > please, please show me. I am a child and do not know how. > Honest to God, Michael, if I knew, nobody would believe. And if I would do it, live it, it would take time to prove it and most of us would not be able to see the end - the good end I mean. I think that deep in our hearts we know how to live a balanced life, yet, it ain't easy. We all have come to learn. And we all a huge Karmic 'club' here with our Mother Earth. But, don't worry, what appears to be 'bad' right now, is a learning process that has been 'fortold' for millenias. And following Steiner, there are many,many more Millenias to come. One thing is for sure though: death and taxes....! Regards Ferdinand > Sincerely, > Michael. > > > You know, the creator spirits did not think that man would live just > about everywhere and, in some cases, want to grow tomatoes on the North > Pole or strawberries in the jugle. We, human beings, want to live just > about everywhere AND grow potatoes in the desert or whatever. The > spirits of creation produced marvellous areas such as the Nile Delta, > certain areas in the Prairies or along the coasts and so forth on which > people could grow a multitude of vegetables, wheat, corn and so forth. > But then they started to move into the mountains, cut off the trees and > changed the bio-balance greatly. Some of us may live in areas where our > forefathers&mothers eeked out their sparce living..... and the soil may > still be good. Some of us may live in areas (such as yours) that was > forests only and, may be, the hunter(s) and gatherers could survive. > They needed vast areas to live in and they had to move on and on and on. > A special kind of life. And then, modern man started to settle into the > gatherer's area and started to produce whatever. Made composts and the > like. Well, I, too, am living in an area that (historically) would not > have supported too many a family on an acre, perhaps 1/8th of a person > per acre, if at all. Fish, fowl, bear, deer and the odd skunk (I > wouldn't eat them of course) would have made it possible for my > forebears to live here. A bit of vegetables, too. But nothing like corn, > wheat, potatoes or any starchy stuff. The soil is as acid as a lemon, in > this part of the world. Forest soil. and it took us years to 'neutralize > it'. And if we leave, it will go back to a pH 3.5 or > less. We limed, we spread ashes, we aereated, we dug, we composted, we > drained and worked hard to bring the pH up to the present 5.8 or > 6.5 and we are still far below the ideal level. Winter rain, > moss growth, the proximity of the forest and some pollution (thinking of > the paper mills....) will make our battle a long one. I do not know > whether I have said anything you can use here. > > Regards Ferdinand> > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 22:42:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA27218 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:42:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA20997; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:32:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20614 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:30:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10A3th-0005Wf-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:31:37 -0800 Message-ID: <36BFABCB.C2A1CECD@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:30:19 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: the error of their ways References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 189 Dear Margaret, It is very unfortunate, but the Nurnberg trials revealed it 'clearly': The Second World War i.e. Nazi Germany, was nobody's fault. Everybody did his job according to job description and what he/she was told. The machinery was directed to accomplish a certain mission. The troups marched on and (refering to another post) there must have been millions and millions of 'good Germans' 'nice Germans' 'church going Germans' etc. etc. who were caught in the system, too. How many did prevent it from going berserk? I am afraid that our small circle with this handful of BDers (and the many BDers and other natural ERs) will - in due course, be treated in about the same way as those who tried to prevent Hitler from doing his job. This time, however, mankaind (chemical corporations, business world and all of us who do not want to become conscious of what is going on) are not fighting another nation (or nations). This time around, we are fighing nature (and the beings behind it), and with it the Christ forces. The outcome is clear. The problem, however, is the same as 60 years ago with Hitler: how to tell the Fuehrer? He is blind, Madam! And he took Germany all the way into the abyss. Have you ever looked at the aereal photographs of some Germany cities after WW2? Well, do you see a comparison with our destroyed forests, fertile land, parks etc. etc.? Yet, don't despair! There will be an end to this insanity (also in due course). Those of us who know that they are on the right track with BD, with natural farming, with the glorification of nature, keep on doing what you believe is right. The end is nigh, yet, a new beginning, too. Respectfully submitted: Ferdinand Vondruska Margaret Kemp wrote: > To Steven,Ferdinand, Michael and others, > Perhaps you can point out the error of their ways to those in the corporate > giants, but that is not enough. Every night on the news the end results of > those involved in the manufacture of armaments is graphically detailed. And > yet they do not 'see'. > Each person within the corporate structures is in fact a prisoner. They have > no right to steer the juggernaut away from the path of maximum dollars > regardless of cost to themselves and the Earth. The multi-nationals seem to > become insatiable entities. > I am a learner of BD. Are we in a state of chaos before a time of greater > creative enery flows? > Margaret From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 8 22:47:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA27251 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:47:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA21525; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:38:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21330 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10A3zm-0002kK-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:37:54 -0800 Message-ID: <36BFAD46.C18EBFFC@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:36:38 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds References: <199902081529.KAA03459@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 190 Many thanks, Steven. Ferdinand Steven McFadden wrote: > I want to acknowledge the harrowing tales and trends related in this thread > by Rex and Ferdinand, and alluded to by Jane -- and to acknowledge also > that, yes, these are just the tip of a massive corporate iceberg. Sunday's > edition of The New York Times carried a story in the Week In Review section > detailing how many hundreds of former CIA and KGB agents are now working > together to provide "intelligence" for for transnational corporations. > > So, yes, I know this is real, even without judging the individuals. I've > always assumed that our BDNow list is monitored, and would be surprised to > learn otherwise. > > I think we are basically all together in our general view of corporate GE > machinations and so forth, if not in what we consider to be appropriate and > effective responses. If I understand correctly, the remark I made in my > initial post that drew your attention and protests had to do with urging a > period of 25 years of more of evaluation. So let me write a bit more about > that. > > Though I may have expressed myself unclearly, never was it in my mind that > the public ought to blissfully munch away on mutated food for a quarter of a > century or more before forming an opinion. What I wanted to convey was the > thought that Johnny's -- and every other corporation or individual involved > with the whole vast scope of GE work -- take that period of time (at > minimum) to pay attention and evaluate their intentions before putting any > of this the widely out into the world. > > The GE genie is out of the bottle but good, and spread across the landscape > (and the dinner plate). The whole GE THING I feel is an crucial, > revolutionary and probably -- ultimately -- unstoppable impulse, signified > cosmically at this stage by the transit of Uranus (and now Neptune) through > Aquarius. The impulse to experiment with genes is in many respects > Promethean (Uranian), and it surely involves hubris. This time the fire > stolen from the gods is information and insight about the structure of life. > Obviously this is a fire that can burn badly. And thus for me as subject > that warrants philosophical inquiry as well as action of some kind. > > The GEnie is not going back in the bottle till something drastic happens -- > and even then it seems unlikely to me the GEnie will get stuffed all the way > back in. I am firm in my conviction that it would be the path of wisdom > for the corps and scientists to slow down. Effete wishful thinking? > Probably, but no more so than wishing that they would stop altogether, or > even aggressively demanding that they stop altogether. We have the history > of nuclear energy as kind of a parallel guide in this. > > I took my stand on these issues a long time ago. More recently Trauger Groh > and I dedicated a lengthy and exhaustively researched chapter of "Farms of > Tomorrow Revisited" to laying out the whole scope and impact of industrial > ag and GE, as best we could picture them. But still it's only about 1/20th > of the book. We had something else we wanted to say, something else we > wanted to pour our energy into.... > > I write my letters to Congress, tell my friends, and speak to the GE issue > when I'm in various public forums. But I get vivid feedback. Whenever I > bring the subject up in public I see the audience's eyes glaze over and > their bodies shift uncomfortably. They check out emotionally and > intellectually. I feel as if I am alone in the room. The public doesn't > know about this issue, and in the main it seems they actively don't want to > know. The Hindu people have a concept called "Avidia" (sp?). Roughly > translated it means "not wanting to know," usually because a particular > truth is just too upsetting and painful. That's where I think the public is > on GE seeds, food and organisms. > > I persist. I always metion the corporate GE axis and go into some detail > -- but then, as I have come to learn what is effective, I shift gears and > put the emphasis on what's in it for them -- and all of us -- going the > route of organic, biodynamic, CSA, etc. That's what Trauger and I strove > to do in our book as well. > > So in sum here's where I'm at. I acknnowledge GE food and corporate ag > malfeasance as widespread and likely to increase. I condemn the actions but > withold judgement of the people. I'm interested in all of this in a way and > to a degree similar to my interest in the presidential impeachement trial. > But it just doesn't take me very far, or anywhere I want to go. Again, I > say to Johnny's and all the rest, consider the wisdom of extended patience > and care. And again I affirm where I focusing my energy -- on what I see as > new, healthier models that will render the existing obsolete. > > Respectfully, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 07:00:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA01585 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:00:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA27461; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:50:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA27331 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:47:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.167] (pm3shep1-163-58.intrepid.net [209.190.163.58]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA21815 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:48:46 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:48:25 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: FWD: Permaculture Design Certification Course Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 191 ****************************************************************************** Permaculture Design Certification course in Pojoaque, New Mexico May 1-14, 1999 ****************************************************************************** The Permaculture Institute,USA is proud to announce its first residential intensive two week design certification course. It will be offered on the property of an intentional community Casa Las Barrancas in Pojoaque, which is being developed as a permaculture demonstration site. Course topics include but are not limited to: * Permaculture Philosophy, Ethics, and Principles * Methodology of Design - observation, deduction, random assembly, zoning, etc * Reading the Landscape, Site Analysis, Mapping * Principles of Natural Systems, * Patterns in Nature, Society, Culture - understanding and application * Water in Landscape * Soil Building, Erosion Control, Earthworks * Forest, Trees and Their Energy Transactions * Building Design, Appropriate Technologies * Designing the Productive Home System * Useful Plants and Animals, Aquaculture * Invisible Structures, Village Design, Community Economics * Local Trading Systems, Urban Permaculture This course will have strong emphasis on hands-on exercises after classes on the community wetlands, field, orchards, and gardens. The exercises will include * water catchment and channeling, * planning and planting a windbreak, * plant identification, * laying out a key-hole/ mandala garden, * building a herb spiral * and possibly a straw-bale wall raising. The community land has many design challenges for the class to examine - strong seasonal winds, highly variable microclimates, and erosion potential. This course aims to provide students with a strong foundation to create their own sustainable living situation in this unstable world. ******************** Course facilitators : Scott Pittman, founder of the Permaculture Institute, who has 13 years of experience of teaching, designing and living permaculture on 4 continents with indigenous people, an expert on the field of large scale land bio-remediation, holistic property design, alternative building, earthworks and invisible structures. Joel Glansberg, well known teacher and designer, wizard of food-forests and guilds design, founder of the Flowering Tree Permaculture Institute. Number of participants will be limited, in order to provide the students with opportunity for personal interaction with the teachers. Lodging: limited space in the community guesthouse, please register early, $130 for 13 nights in double occupancy rooms. Camping $30, please bring your own tent. Offsite accommodation within walking distance from the site can be arranged, call in advance. Tuition: $950 for two week course with one day off. 72 hours of formal instruction. Course outline, handouts, three organic meals a day are included. Additional free evening presentations on biodynamic, herbal medicine, plant identification and more. ******************************************************************************* Discount $50 if paid in full on or before 3/31 To hold your place a deposit of $250 is due 3/15 Make checks payable to the Permaculture Institute, PO Box 3702 Pojoaque NM 87501 ******************************************************************************* Other details call 505-455-0270, fax 505-455-0514 or email us pci@permaculture-inst.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 07:28:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA02088 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:28:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA28794; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:19:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA28687 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:17:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from alphalink.com.au (ppp32-0-Rosebud.alphalink.com.au [203.62.183.32]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA15234 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:18:44 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <36C02855.5E7A7EE1@alphalink.com.au> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 23:21:41 +1100 From: SJ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: the error of their ways References: <36BFABCB.C2A1CECD@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 192 Dear Group, Many parables jump to mind after reading this series of emails. ---------------------------------------------- An old Jewish/German parable.... paraphrased. "One day they (Nazi's) came and took the man away from down the street, and I said nothing. The next day they came and took the man away from up the street, and I said nothing. The next day they came and took the man away from over the road, and I said nothing. The next day they came and took my neighbour away, and I said nothing. The next day they came and took me away, and their was no one left to say anything." ------------------------------------------------------------ An ederly women some years ago walked across the USA. When one of the journalists interviewed her about the epic walk...he asked .... "How did such an Old lady do such a trip" She smiled and simply replied.. "I just put one foot in front of the other" ---------------------------------------------------------- Chinese Proverb "Every great marche begins with one step" ---------------------------------------------------------- "If we all cleaned our own door step, what a great place the world would be" ----------------------------------------------------------- If we lead by example, are true to ourselves, support one another and do not fall into the trap of "playing victim" we will do all we set out to do and more!! Kind regards and blessings, Stephen from OZ !!!!!!!!! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 08:29:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA02930 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:29:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA03288; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:21:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03183 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <32763-490>; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:21:49 -0400 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:21:49 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: biodynamics Subject: Re: OFF Ottawa Reading List In-Reply-To: <002c01be537f$4338cae0$49d0ba89@computername> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 193 A while ago I mentioned the R. Steiner Lectures in July in Ottawa, Canada The reading list is out..also included are the O'Reilly/Decker edition of the 'Organon,' and 'Homeopathy Re-Examined' by Decker/Verspoor - will be available in CD-ROM & print in March. Available from Minimum books- Email: orders@minimum.com --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia PS: We are holding our second Homeopathy Class - Basic Principles/First Aid on Saturday, Feb. 13, in Halifax and there are about 8 people ready to move on to the Homeopathic Diploma course beginning in Sept., the tutors will come to Halifax once a month for 10 months... >From my Homeopathic list: > > Okay -- anyone interested in a reading list to prepare for Summer School > with Rudi Verspoor and Steven Decker, on Steiner's knowledge of the >higher worlds, and knowing (gnosis) -- all major parts of the dynamic >system and hugely relevant to heilkunst and Hahnemann's medical system -- this is from Steven: > Subject: Gnosis Reading List > > > Here are a few items for the Gnosis seminar. The following three books > are available at: > http://www.anthropress.org/press/TOC.html > > HOW TO KNOW HIGHER WORLDS > A Modern Path of Initiation > Written in 1904-1905 (GA 10); Translated by CHRISTOPHER BAMFORD; > formerly titled Knowledge of the Higher Worlds and Its Attainment > Rudolf Steiner 288 pp, ISBN 0-88010-372-8, paperback Book #1701, $9.95 > > The English Spirit > D.E. Faulkner Jones > ISBN 0-85440-389-2 > RSP, Book #643 > $11.95 > > AN OUTLINE OF ESOTERIC SCIENCE > Written in 1910 (GA 13); Translated By Catherine E. Creeger > Rudolf Steiner 388 pp, ISBN 0-880103-68-X, paperback > book #1898, $19.95 Chap.5 > > Rudolf Steiner's Medical Lectures > My scanned version is the only complete set I know of. Rudi has it > and I have it. > > The Quimby Manuscripts (out of print, but there are a good number of > used copies listed at > http://www.bookfinder.com/ > Especially the long Introduction by the editor. > > For an overview of the origins of Gnosticism see > http://www.gnosis.org/library.html > Especially http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlintro.html > and > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/pagels.html > > See also the Britannica article(s) on Gnosticism. > > For the Medieval period, the Britannica article on 'Mysticism' serves as > a good overview. > > For the Romantic period, Coleridge's Biographia Literaria and his Essays > on Method are core contributions. > This is hard going and quite optional. Ask me if anyone gets this far. > > That's all for right now, but if something else occurs to me I'll send > it along. > Steven Decker From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 10:35:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05406 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:35:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA20394; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20134 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:25:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0109.direct.ca ([204.244.83.9] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AF3V-0004Z4-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:26:29 -0800 Message-ID: <36C05358.21571082@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 07:25:12 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: STAGBLADDER AND HUNTING Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 194 Dear Ferdinand, Some people make this so called preparations, you said, where you use Stag Bladder. How do you get Stag Bladder. Does it come from Santa Claus. Ferdinand, tell me, is it true that the Yarrow Flower grows in the darkest time of the winter and in the snow? Tell me, is the stag something like a berry that you can pick in the forest? Tell me please! DEAR MELANIE, I WENT HUNTING FOR DEER. AND THE STAG IS A MALE DEER. SO, YES, I WENT HUNTING FOR DEER, FOR WHITE TAIL DEER BECAUSE THERE WERE NO OTHER RED DEER, AS I SHOULD HAVE BEEN HUNTING FOR. AND, IN SPRIN, DEAR MELANIE, IN SPRING I NEED A DEER BLADDER FOR MY BIO-DINAMIC YARROW PREPARATION OF WHICH I MAKE A SPECIAL PREPARATION WHICH IS ALSO CALLED PREPARATION 502. Do you have to kill the deer, Ferdinand? WELL, MELANIE, HOW SHALL I TELL YOU. YES! BEFORE I GO OUT IN THE FOREST, I CLEANSE MYSELF. I PRAY TO THE BEING OF THE DEER, WHICH IS A BIT LIKE A DEVA, AND THE DEVA DOES ASK ME MANY QUESTIONS. SHE WANT TO KNOW WHETHER I AM READY. SHE LOOKS INTO MY HEART. SHE LOOKS AT WHAT I HAVE DONE IN MYH LIFE AND SHE IS SITTING AMONG HER HERD OF DEER. SHE LOOKS AFTER THEM LIKE A FARMER IS LOOKING AFTER HIS COWS. SHE KNOWS THEM ALL, BY NAME, BY MOVEMENT, BY WHERE THEY LIVE. Ferdinand, what is her name? PERHAPS, I WOULD CALL HER DIANA, MY DEAR. SHE IS A WONDERFUL BEING AND SHE SAID SADLY, THAT VERY FEW HUNTERS COME AND VISIT HER LET ALONE ASK HER WHETHER THEY ARE PERMITTED TO SHOOT. AND SO, MANY AN ACCIDENT DOES HAPPEN AND HUNTER SHOOTS HUNTER. THIS IS SO PAINFUL FOR HER BECAUSE SHE WILL HAVE TO BE PRESENT DURING THE FUNERAL AND SHE WILL HAVE TO BE WITH THE DEAD HUNTER FOR YEARS WHEN HE IS IN HER KINGDOM AND DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM - WHEN HE IS IN THE KINGDOM OF THE DEAD. Can you tell me more of this, Ferdinand, please? MELANI, I WANTED TO TELL A STORY OF MY HUNTING TRIP. MAY I, PLEASE. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS, I WILL GLADLY DO SO. BUT, TOMORROW, WHEN YOU COME BACK FROM KINDERGARTEN, I WILL PREPARE MYSELF, SO THAT I CAN TELL YOU THE STORY ABOUT DIANA. THIS STORY HAS TO DO WITH MY HUNTING EXPEDITION. WOULD YOU LIKE TO HEAR IT? Yes! WHEN I WENT A HUNTING, IT WAS ONLY ABOUT 20 DEGREES BELOW BUT I FROZE TO THE FLOOR OF THE SMALL HUT I WAS SITTING IN DURING THE NIGHT, FOR SEVEN HOURS. MY SHOES FROZE TOO, THAT IS THE INSIDE, AND THERE WAS LOTS OF ICE INSIDE MY JACKET. MELANIE, I WAS SO COLD THAT I COULD HARDLY THINK ANYMORE. I KNOW NOW THAT WHEN IT IS TOO COLD ONE CANNOT THINK PROPERLY ANYMORE. IT IS THE SAME WHEN IT IS TOO HOT. AND SO, SLOWLY, I COULD NOT FEEL MY BODY ANY LONGER. I HAD TO LEAVE THE HUT BECAUSE I COULD NOT TAKE IT NO MORE. MY TWO HUNTING FRIENDS STAYED BEHIND IN THEIR WARM OUTFIT. MINE WAS NOT MADE FOR SUCH COLD TEMPERATURES AND ON TOP OF IT, I WAS SITTING CLOSE TO THE LOOKOUT GAP. THE ICY COLD AIR STREAMED INTO THE HUT WITH GREAT FORCE AND CRUELTY. WHEN I LEFT, IT WAS SNOWING EVER SO SLIGHTLY. SO, I THOUGHT THAT I SHOLD WALK BACK TO THE CAR. WE HAD ARRIVED IN A CAR. IT WAS PARKED ONLY A MILE AWAY. I WAS WALKING ON THE OLD TRACK - ON THE TRACK WE MADE WHEN WE CAME TO THE HUT. AND WHEN I CAME TO A BEND IN THE PATH, I LOST THE FOOTPRINTS. I COULD NOT SEE ANYTHING ANYMORE. IT WAS FOUR O CLOCK IN THE MORNING AND VERY DARK. I LOOKED AROUND, THERE WERE MILLIONS OF TREES, SNOW, CLOUDS AND SNOW FLAKES FALLING, DENSER AND DENSER. SO, I WALKED A BIT FURTHER AND THE CREAKING OF MY SHOES, THE FROZEN SHOES, MADE AN EERIE SOUND - AND THE SNOW KEPT FALLING. I CONTINUED TO WALK STRAIGHT AHEAD BUT…. WHAT I THOUGHT WAS A PATH ENDED. AND I HAD TO RETURN FOR A WHILE. BUT THEN, I THOUGHT, I WILL TRY IT AGAIN. AND I FOLLOWED SOME IMPRINTS IN THE SNOW AND WALKED, AND WALKED AND, THEY CAME TO AN END, TOO. SO, I RETURNED TO THE PLACE WHERE I THOUGHT I FELT SOME FAMILIARITY. BUT THEN, I THOUGHT, I SHOULD TRY IT AGAIN AND I FOLLOWED ALLLLLLL THESE FOOTSTEPS IN THE SNOW - AND I WAS SO HAPPY THAT THERE WERE SO MANY FOOTSTEPS CLEARLY VISIBLE, AND ALMOST FRESH. AND I WALKED AND, THEY ALL ENDED IN THE SAME PLACE YET AGAIN. SO, I TURNED BACK AND DID NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO. I STOOD IN THE SNOW, UNDER A DARK TREE. SNOW WAS FALLING MORE HEAVILY BY NOW. IT GREW EVEN DARKER AS THE MOON HAD DISAPPEARED BEHIND THE HEAVY CLOUDS. I COULD HARDLY SEE MY NOSE. SUDDENLY, I REMEMBERED THAT I WAS PULLING MY SLEEPING BAG BEHIND ME, IN THE SNOW, BECAUSE I HAD USED IT IN THE LITTLE HUT. I SAT DOWN AND WRAPPED MYSELF IN IT. BUT THAT DID NOT HELP AT ALL. MY SKIN STARTED TO BURN. I SWEATED LIKE MAD. I THINK IT WAS SWEAT OF ANXIETY OR SCARE. I THOUGHT, FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT I MAY HAVE TO DIE IN THE FOREST, RIGHT HERE, IN FINLAND. ALL BY MYSELF. GRAY PICTURES OF DREAMS AND A STIFFENING ANXIETY WENT THROUGH MY HEAD. GOD, I THOUGHT, FORESTS - FORESTS - CAN THEY REALLY LOOK SO MUCH THE SAME? EVERYWHERE IT LOOKS THE SAME…... I HAD NEVER EXPERIENCED A THING LIKE THIS. I KNOW FORESTS, I REALLY DO. FROM SWITZERLAND, WHERE I GREW UP AS A CHILD AND FROM CANADA, WHERE I WAS LIVING. HOW COULD IT HAPEN THAT I GOT CAUGHT IN SUCH A SITUATION. MY THINKING DID NOT HELP. AND I DECIDED, (NO, NEVER, IT CANNOT BE THE LAST TIME, I SAID TO MYSELF) THAT I MUST TRY IT ONCE MORE: TO FIND MY CAR. I SAID THIS VERY LOUD TO MYSELF. YOU MUST GO FORWARD, NOW. REALLY, DO IT. BUT I HAD NO ENERGY TO SHOUT. I THOUGHT THAT THE TONE WOULD FREEZE IN THE AIR. AND IT REALLY DID. THERE WAS NO ECHO, NO NOTHING. MY SHOUT WAS SWALLOWED LIKE A STONE THAT HAD FALLEN INTO A POND. WITHOUT A SOUND. SO, I TURNED AROUND AND WALKED AND I WAS SO HAPPY TO SEE ALL THESE MANY FOOTSTEPS IN THE SNOW. I COUNTED. EIGHT, TEN, TWELVE AND MORE AND I FOLLOWED THEM INTO THE FOREST AND I GOT MORE AND MORE EXCITED BECAUSE NOW, I KNEW, I WOULD FIND OUT OF THIS MAZE. I ALMOST STARTED TO SING. THE SNOW BEGAN TO GLITTER, I FELT WARM, FOR……. BUT, SUDDENLY, ALL OF THESE FOTSTEPS, THESE IMPRINTS, ALL OF THEM…….THEM CAME TO AN END. RIGHT IN THIS DENSE, THIS DENSEST PART OF THE FOREST. I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT. HOW COULD THAT MANY PEOPLE STOP HERE AND DISAPPEAR? NOW, NOW I WAS SCARED. THERE WAS NO MORE GLITTERING SNOW AND SINGING. MY MOUTH WAS AS COLD AS A BLOCK OF ICE. GOD, WHAT WAS GOING ON HERE. MY BRAIN WAS ALMOST UNABLE TO THINK. I TREMBLED. I FELL ON MY KNEES. I LOOKED AT THE IMPRINTS. I LOOKED AT THE SNOW. WHY WERE THERE SO MANY FOOTSTEPS, WHY WAS THERE A PATH AND WHY WOULD IT END SO SUDDENLY, IN THE FOREST, IN THE DARKEST PLACE? AND I STOOD THERE, MOTIONLESS, AND FELT HOW THE BITING COLD WAS ATTACKING MY FEET. BITING OFF LITTLE CHIPS - AND I FELT HOW MY BREATH FROZE TO THE WOOLEN CAP THAT I HAD PULLED OVER MY FACE. THEN, ALL OF A SUDDEN, I THOUGHT OF A STORY THAT I HAD READ TO MY CHILDREN. IT WAS THAT OF WINNY THE POO. DIDN’T HE FOLLOW HIS OWN FOOTSTEPS? DO YOU REMEMBER THAT STORY? I SAID TO MYSELF. AND IT DAWNED ON ME THAT I HAD FOLLOWED MY VERY OWN FOOTSTEPS FOR ALMOST HALF THE NIGHT. AND NOW, I WAS REALLY SCARED. BUT MY BODY DID NOT TREMBLE ANYMORE. I WAS STIFF. HOW WILL I FIND OUT OF THIS BLACK, LIFELESS, DEVOURING BEAST? WHO CAN OR WILL HELP ME. I TRIED TO SHOUT BUT…. JUST A WHIMPER CAME ACROSS MY LIPS WHO, BY NOW, HAD FULLY FROZEN TO THE WOOLEN CAP. THEN, I TURNED AROUND, - TO WHERE? THE FALLING SNOW HAD COVERED THE OLD PATH FROM THE HUT TO THE MANY FOOTSTEPS, TO THE SO CALLED SECURE PLACE AND NOW I KNEW I COULDN'T FIND BACK TO THE HUT ANY MORE EITHER. NO RETURN. I WAS THINKING OF MY FRIENDS SITTING IN THERE. MUCH WARMER THAN I AND NOT ALONE. AND WHILE I WAS STANDING FACING EXTINCTION, A TEAR WAS RUNNING DOWN MY NOSE, THEN FACE - WAS I TO DIE OUT HERE? WHY? MY TEAR FELL INTO THE SNOW - SOMEHOW AND WHERE IT HAD LEFT MY NOSE IT FELT NUMB, LIKE A HOLE. I WANTED TO RUB IT AND BENT DOWN A BIT. ALAS, THERE, IN THE GRAY SNOW OF THE NIGHT I SAW A SMALL TRACK, LIKE A SLEIGH PATH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT – AN EVER SO SOFT IMPRINT. AND I THOUGHT: IS THIS ANOTHER TRICK OF THE FOREST. FOLLOW IT - I SAID LOUDLY AND THE SLEEPINGBAG MADE A HISSING SOUND AS IT RUSHED GHOSTLIKE BEHIND ME...AND........................ IT SEEMED TO ME THAT HOURS HAD GONE BY AS I WALKED, AIMLESSLY THROUGH THE FOREST FOLLOWING A TRACK THAT MAY, AFTER ALL, NOT LEAD ANYWHERE. OH, HOW SURPRISED I WAS THAT LIFE SILL WANTED TO GO ON. SURPRISED THAT SOMETHING IN ME PUSHED FORWARD FOR I, I FERDINAND,HAD GIVEN UP…… MY FRIENDS, MY CHILDREN, MY WIFE , THE DEAREST PEOPLE AND ALL - EVEN I, MYSELF, YES, I MYSELF - WALKED BY ME. HOW STRANGE AND SILLY DID I LOOK I THOUGHT. AND ON THE PATH, IN FRONT OF ME, YES, GREW A WHITE, FRESH, FLOWERING YARROW PLANT. AND CLEARLY I CAN SEE IT, A FLOWERING YARROW PLANT. MELANIE, IT IS TRUE, I SAW THEM ALL. THEY LOOKED AT ME WITH LOVEFILLED EYES. THEY WOULD NOT LET ME GO NEITHER LEFT NOR RIGHT. THEY KEPT ME ON A MYSTERIOUS PATH. AND WHAT I SAW WOULD FILL A BOOK THAT MAKES BUT SENSE TO ME. SUDDENLY I HIT THE CAR. I WAS FROZEN, I THOUGHT. I COULD HARDLY BEND. IT TOOK ME HOURS TO GET WARM. AND STILL, WHEN I THINK OF THIS EPISODE, MY FACE, MY SHOULDER, MY FEET, MY WHOLE BODY IS STARTING TO ACHE. I HOPE YOU'LL NEVER RUN INTO A SITUATION LIKE THIS, DEAR MELANIE. IS THERE A STAGBLADDER SANTA CLAUS? WELL, I DON’T KNOW MY DEAR. TODAY, I KNOW DEAR MELANIE THAT IT TAKES A LOT OF WISDOM AND SACRIFICE TO FIND THE STAG AND THE YEARROW PLANT. TREAT THEM WITH GREAT CARE. DID YOU SHOOT A DEER, FERDINAND? ........NOT I, MY DEAR. I WATCHED THEM MOVING THROUGH THE FOREST AND DANCE THEIR MYSTERIOIUS WINTER DANCE. TELL ME MORE, FERDINAND - ABOUT THEIR WINTER DANCES. T'IS LATE, MY DEAR. GO TO SLEEP NOW. GOOD NIGHT. FROM FERDINAND From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 10:49:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05679 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:49:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA22723; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:42:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22129 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:39:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id KAA06181 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:40:54 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:38:47 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF65@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: the error of OUR ways Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:40:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 195 a liitle added food for thought, ferdy and others. what i eventually took from watching parts of the Nurnberg trials is this (and you find it applies to a million other situations): it WAS their fault. it was the fault of everyone who did not do everything in their power to stop it. i can't see another sane way to view the whole thing. the evil is our fault unless we are engaged in fighting it. we may be completely ignorant of it ,but that does not make it any less our fault that it continues. olivia > ---------- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Monday, February 8, 1999 10:30 PM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: the error of their ways > > Dear Margaret, > It is very unfortunate, but the Nurnberg trials revealed it 'clearly': The > Second World War i.e. Nazi Germany, was nobody's fault. Everybody did his > job > according to job description and what he/she was told. The machinery was > directed to accomplish a certain mission. The troups marched on and > (refering to > another post) there must have been millions and millions of 'good Germans' > 'nice > Germans' 'church going Germans' etc. etc. who were caught in the system, > too. > How many did prevent it from going berserk? > > I am afraid that our small circle with this handful of BDers (and the many > BDers > and other natural ERs) will - in due course, be treated in about the same > way as > those who tried to prevent Hitler from doing his job. This time, however, > mankaind (chemical corporations, business world and all of us who do not > want to > become conscious of what is going on) are not fighting another nation (or > nations). This time around, we are fighing nature (and the beings behind > it), > and with it the Christ forces. The outcome is clear. The problem, however, > is > the same as 60 years ago with Hitler: how to tell the Fuehrer? He is > blind, > Madam! And he took Germany all the way into the abyss. Have you ever > looked at > the aereal photographs of some Germany cities after WW2? Well, do you see > a > comparison with our destroyed forests, fertile land, parks etc. etc.? > > Yet, don't despair! There will be an end to this insanity (also in due > course). > Those of us who know that they are on the right track with BD, with > natural > farming, with the glorification of nature, keep on doing what you believe > is > right. The end is nigh, yet, a new beginning, too. Respectfully submitted: > Ferdinand Vondruska > > Margaret Kemp wrote: > > > To Steven,Ferdinand, Michael and others, > > Perhaps you can point out the error of their ways to those in the > corporate > > giants, but that is not enough. Every night on the news the end results > of > > those involved in the manufacture of armaments is graphically detailed. > And > > yet they do not 'see'. > > Each person within the corporate structures is in fact a prisoner. They > have > > no right to steer the juggernaut away from the path of maximum dollars > > regardless of cost to themselves and the Earth. The multi-nationals seem > to > > become insatiable entities. > > I am a learner of BD. Are we in a state of chaos before a time of > greater > > creative enery flows? > > Margaret > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 12:59:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08522 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA17367; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:52:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09553 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:13:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AGkN-0005EE-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:14:51 -0800 Message-ID: <36C06CBE.680FC3EA@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 09:13:34 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: the error of OUR ways References: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF65@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 196 Dear Olivia, Perhaps I was misunderstood. Perhaps the word 'clearly' should have been replaced and I should have said something like this: Already in Nazi Germany (I am not German, but I grew up close to Germany) there was a trend and it started in the dirty thirties: Let's do the job, whatever it is. A job is a job and as long as we do not ask what for, what results it may cause etc. we do it. And everybody did his/her job diligently. Of course, I agree with you that it WAS (all of them) their fault. Absolutely. One mitigating factor (when looking at it from 1999) is the fact that Europe (and for that the entire world) had gone through an incredible period of unemployment and misery (such as some Asian countries are going through right now!). And Dr. Steiner made it very, very clear before his death in 1925 when said that IF education cannot instill some kind of spirituality into mankind, huge and collossal wars will ravage Europe and the world. If you study how children were educated in Germany at the turn of last Century, you may understand why the Europeans fell into such an abyss. But we are standing at the edge of a similar cathastrophe right now. Just study what kids have to learn in 1999. I am sorry if I have caused this misunderstanding. James.Olivia wrote: > a liitle added food for thought, ferdy and others. what i eventually took > from watching parts of the Nurnberg trials is this (and you find it applies > to a million other situations): it WAS their fault. it was the fault of > everyone who did not do everything in their power to stop it. i can't see > another sane way to view the whole thing. the evil is our fault unless we > are engaged in fighting it. we may be completely ignorant of it ,but that > does not make it any less our fault that it continues. > olivia > > > ---------- > > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Sent: Monday, February 8, 1999 10:30 PM > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Subject: Re: the error of their ways > > > > Dear Margaret, > > It is very unfortunate, but the Nurnberg trials revealed it 'clearly': The > > Second World War i.e. Nazi Germany, was nobody's fault. Everybody did his > > job > > according to job description and what he/she was told. The machinery was > > directed to accomplish a certain mission. The troups marched on and > > (refering to > > another post) there must have been millions and millions of 'good Germans' > > 'nice > > Germans' 'church going Germans' etc. etc. who were caught in the system, > > too. > > How many did prevent it from going berserk? > > > > I am afraid that our small circle with this handful of BDers (and the many > > BDers > > and other natural ERs) will - in due course, be treated in about the same > > way as > > those who tried to prevent Hitler from doing his job. This time, however, > > mankaind (chemical corporations, business world and all of us who do not > > want to > > become conscious of what is going on) are not fighting another nation (or > > nations). This time around, we are fighing nature (and the beings behind > > it), > > and with it the Christ forces. The outcome is clear. The problem, however, > > is > > the same as 60 years ago with Hitler: how to tell the Fuehrer? He is > > blind, > > Madam! And he took Germany all the way into the abyss. Have you ever > > looked at > > the aereal photographs of some Germany cities after WW2? Well, do you see > > a > > comparison with our destroyed forests, fertile land, parks etc. etc.? > > > > Yet, don't despair! There will be an end to this insanity (also in due > > course). > > Those of us who know that they are on the right track with BD, with > > natural > > farming, with the glorification of nature, keep on doing what you believe > > is > > right. The end is nigh, yet, a new beginning, too. Respectfully submitted: > > Ferdinand Vondruska > > > > Margaret Kemp wrote: > > > > > To Steven,Ferdinand, Michael and others, > > > Perhaps you can point out the error of their ways to those in the > > corporate > > > giants, but that is not enough. Every night on the news the end results > > of > > > those involved in the manufacture of armaments is graphically detailed. > > And > > > yet they do not 'see'. > > > Each person within the corporate structures is in fact a prisoner. They > > have > > > no right to steer the juggernaut away from the path of maximum dollars > > > regardless of cost to themselves and the Earth. The multi-nationals seem > > to > > > become insatiable entities. > > > I am a learner of BD. Are we in a state of chaos before a time of > > greater > > > creative enery flows? > > > Margaret > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 13:00:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08538 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:00:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA17200; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:51:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26592 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:06:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp73.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.173]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA17663 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:06:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:05:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 197 Hi everyone... Just wanted to remind all of you that our own Hugh Lovel will be giving a 5-hour seminar on Biodynamics at the Upper Midwest Organic Farming Conference at Sinsinawa Mound (a fab place, considered sacred by the Native Americans, and now a happening place, run by retired nuns who have extensive organic gardens, vineyards and even a dairy herd! See this place at http://www.sinsinawa.org/smc.htm ) Hugh will be speaking with Clair Hall of Releaf, Inc., who's an amazing biodynamic farmer from Minnesota. (Clair is a sweet BD soul, all her gardens are named after her favorite authors, she can make rain, and she makes an outstanding "Glad Heart" tea, among other things!) I know you're thinking this seminar should cost at least $150, but in fact, it is a steal at a mere $45...Yup - that comes out to about $9/hr! And the March 4th seminar is rapidly approaching, so check out the website for the UMOFC at http://agile.net/UMOFC/ Here's the seminar description: "Biodynamics is Agriculture in Motion. Growing food is really about life, and life forces are always moving, always dynamic. These forces play a critical role in the health and growth of plants, animals, and people. Hugh Lovel, founder of Union Ag Institute in Blairsville, Georgia and Clair Hall, founder of Releaf, Inc. in Wabasha, MN, will bring you the basics of biodynamics. Explore the cosmos in a microcosm; discuss the flows of free ether and how it may become bound ether on your farm. Learn how we can work with the life forces to increase the vitality of our farms and our spirits." Hope to see you there! Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 13:17:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08914 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:17:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA20273; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:09:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA19853 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:07:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id NAA16015 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:08:30 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:06:23 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF6B@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: the error of OUR ways Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:06:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 198 ferdy, you are very sensitive (not a bad thing). i did not interpret your words to say that you didn't believe everyone played a part, just that your focus was on the machinery and i felt it didn't acknowledge each individual's personal responsibility for the horror. i was only adding to the great brainstorm we continually engage in here on the list. of course rereading i realize that i was only saying hey every one played a part and you were *showing how * everyone played a part in that awful situation. thanks for your input. olivia > ---------- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 1999 12:13 PM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: the error of OUR ways > > Dear Olivia, > > Perhaps I was misunderstood. Perhaps the word 'clearly' should have been > replaced and I should have said something like this: Already in Nazi > Germany > (I am not German, but I grew up close to Germany) there was a trend and it > started in the dirty thirties: Let's do the job, whatever it is. A job is > a job > and as long as we do not ask what for, what results it may cause etc. we > do > it. And everybody did his/her job diligently. > > Of course, I agree with you that it WAS (all of them) their fault. > Absolutely. > One mitigating factor (when looking at it from 1999) is the fact that > Europe > (and for that the entire world) had gone through an incredible period of > unemployment and misery (such as some Asian countries are going through > right > now!). And Dr. Steiner made it very, very clear before his death in 1925 > when > said that IF education cannot instill some kind of spirituality into > mankind, > huge and collossal wars will ravage Europe and the world. If you study how > children were educated in Germany at the turn of last Century, you may > understand why the Europeans fell into such an abyss. But we are standing > at the > edge of a similar cathastrophe right now. Just study what kids have to > learn in > 1999. I am sorry if I have caused this misunderstanding. > > James.Olivia wrote: > > > a liitle added food for thought, ferdy and others. what i eventually > took > > from watching parts of the Nurnberg trials is this (and you find it > applies > > to a million other situations): it WAS their fault. it was the fault of > > everyone who did not do everything in their power to stop it. i can't > see > > another sane way to view the whole thing. the evil is our fault unless > we > > are engaged in fighting it. we may be completely ignorant of it ,but > that > > does not make it any less our fault that it continues. > > olivia > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > > > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > Sent: Monday, February 8, 1999 10:30 PM > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > Subject: Re: the error of their ways > > > > > > Dear Margaret, > > > It is very unfortunate, but the Nurnberg trials revealed it 'clearly': > The > > > Second World War i.e. Nazi Germany, was nobody's fault. Everybody did > his > > > job > > > according to job description and what he/she was told. The machinery > was > > > directed to accomplish a certain mission. The troups marched on and > > > (refering to > > > another post) there must have been millions and millions of 'good > Germans' > > > 'nice > > > Germans' 'church going Germans' etc. etc. who were caught in the > system, > > > too. > > > How many did prevent it from going berserk? > > > > > > I am afraid that our small circle with this handful of BDers (and the > many > > > BDers > > > and other natural ERs) will - in due course, be treated in about the > same > > > way as > > > those who tried to prevent Hitler from doing his job. This time, > however, > > > mankaind (chemical corporations, business world and all of us who do > not > > > want to > > > become conscious of what is going on) are not fighting another nation > (or > > > nations). This time around, we are fighing nature (and the beings > behind > > > it), > > > and with it the Christ forces. The outcome is clear. The problem, > however, > > > is > > > the same as 60 years ago with Hitler: how to tell the Fuehrer? He is > > > blind, > > > Madam! And he took Germany all the way into the abyss. Have you ever > > > looked at > > > the aereal photographs of some Germany cities after WW2? Well, do you > see > > > a > > > comparison with our destroyed forests, fertile land, parks etc. etc.? > > > > > > Yet, don't despair! There will be an end to this insanity (also in due > > > course). > > > Those of us who know that they are on the right track with BD, with > > > natural > > > farming, with the glorification of nature, keep on doing what you > believe > > > is > > > right. The end is nigh, yet, a new beginning, too. Respectfully > submitted: > > > Ferdinand Vondruska > > > > > > Margaret Kemp wrote: > > > > > > > To Steven,Ferdinand, Michael and others, > > > > Perhaps you can point out the error of their ways to those in the > > > corporate > > > > giants, but that is not enough. Every night on the news the end > results > > > of > > > > those involved in the manufacture of armaments is graphically > detailed. > > > And > > > > yet they do not 'see'. > > > > Each person within the corporate structures is in fact a prisoner. > They > > > have > > > > no right to steer the juggernaut away from the path of maximum > dollars > > > > regardless of cost to themselves and the Earth. The multi-nationals > seem > > > to > > > > become insatiable entities. > > > > I am a learner of BD. Are we in a state of chaos before a time of > > > greater > > > > creative enery flows? > > > > Margaret > > > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 14:08:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA10233 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:08:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA29516; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA29027 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:56:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-5-p145.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.145]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24053 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:57:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C08247.FAA09417@seattle2000.com> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:45:30 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99 References: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 199 Great! But Sure Would be Nice to have such a conference in the Northwestern US... What would it cost to get some instructors out here? Anyone want to volunteer to help me organize it? Martin Nyberg GreenMan Farm CSA Vashon WA, USA "Julie M." wrote: > Hi everyone... > > Just wanted to remind all of you that our own Hugh Lovel will be giving > a 5-hour seminar on Biodynamics at the Upper Midwest Organic > Farming Conference at Sinsinawa Mound (a fab place, considered sacred by the > Native Americans, and now a happening place, run by retired nuns who have > extensive organic gardens, vineyards and even a dairy herd! See this place > at http://www.sinsinawa.org/smc.htm ) > > Hugh will be speaking with Clair Hall of Releaf, Inc., who's an amazing > biodynamic farmer from Minnesota. (Clair is a sweet BD soul, all her gardens > are named after her favorite authors, she can make rain, and she makes an > outstanding "Glad Heart" tea, among other things!) > > I know you're thinking this seminar should cost at least $150, but in fact, > it is a steal at a mere $45...Yup - that comes out to about $9/hr! And the > March 4th seminar is rapidly approaching, so check out the website for the > UMOFC at http://agile.net/UMOFC/ > > Here's the seminar description: > > "Biodynamics is Agriculture in Motion. Growing food is really about life, > and life forces are always moving, always dynamic. These forces play a > critical role in the health and growth of plants, animals, and people. Hugh > Lovel, founder of Union Ag Institute in Blairsville, Georgia and Clair Hall, > founder of Releaf, Inc. in Wabasha, MN, will bring you the basics of > biodynamics. Explore the cosmos in a microcosm; discuss the flows of free > ether and how it may become bound ether on your farm. Learn how we can work > with the life forces to increase the vitality of our farms and our spirits." > > Hope to see you there! > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 15:39:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12231 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:39:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA15752; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:29:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14705 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:22:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from khansen (awi0113.animalwelfare.com [207.96.27.29]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id PAA01678 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:24:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <011501be546a$a0344800$1d1b60cf@khansen.animalwelfare.com> From: "Kelly Hansen" To: Subject: newbie organic gardener, help with soil amendment location Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:27:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 200 I've really enjoyed reading all of your posts, I am learning a lot, but don't have much to contriubte at this point. I am looking for a supplier of colloidal phosphate, greensand and limestone. Anyone know where to procure a few tons of each around the DC area? TIA, Kelly Hansen, Wash, DC -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds >My friends, >Let me add a story here which my father and I witnessed in the Kanton of Valais, in >Switzerland (around 1964). We visited a cauliflower farm where thousands and >thousands of cauliflowers were 'manufactured. The had the size of a computer Monitor >(not the flat ones!). While, in a corner, there was a concrete box of about 50' x >30' in which grew a lot of other plants plus some 100 small, relatively tiny >cauliflower plants. Asked by my father whether this is a test site, the owner and >producer replied laughingly: Do you really and honestly believe that I am eating the >crap out there? It stinks when you cook it and think of all the stuff we put into >it. No, my family and I we are eating the small stuff here. And he pointed at the >'text box'. He continued: I am getting paid for quantity and that's what the >consumer wants. I couldn't make a living on those small heads. > >Suffice it to say that my father started to shout and our visit ended within >seconds. > >So much for the fellow who has a family and works for a GE-company. One really must >be totally naive to believe that guys who have a family and work for the chemical >industry believe in the chemical industry. We are living in a truly schizophrenic >society. > >If I would put a million dollars on the table, I bet that million, that many a green >would get corrupted, too. I do not want to tell that story (it happened in the >neighbourhood) where a staunch green clearcut his entire forest for a lousy >$10,000.--. Money does a lot, indeed. Regards Ferdinand > >Rex Harrill wrote: > >> Steven McFadden wrote: >> >> > Both in corporate board rooms and socially I have spoken with people >> > involved with bringing genetically engineered food and other products to the >> > market. They turned out to be human beings with families and all the usual >> > concerns. I found them to be sincere and enthusiastic about what they are >> > doing. >> > >> >> Maybe so, maybe so...but: I actually interacted with a man who Novartis hired >> away from the university system and then turned loose to stalk the Internet on >> their behalf. >> >> I'm making that up? Not hardly: once upon a time, while monitoring a supposed >> alternative ag group, I kept noticing that every time I put in a plug for >> earth-friendly farming he would immediately jump in to "explain" that toxic >> chemicals aren't so bad after all. >> >> One day I asked what his purpose was. He responded with two points: 1) he liked >> to piss me off (his words) and, 2) he intended to see that chemicals got a >> "fair" shake. He was quite candid that doing the later was his job, while doing >> the former was his recreation. >> >> Since then I have noticed other spokesmen for the drug and chemical industry >> (based on their tireless championing of toxic technology), but I can't get them >> to fess up that they're paid for it. The best I can do is observe the time >> stamps on their messages. It quickly becomes apparent they're writing those >> "hey guys, a little poison never hurt anybody" messages on company time. >> >> Steve, I highly respect you and your work. However, I would urge you to mount a >> serious study into the agents of disinfomation working the Internet. There are >> billions and billions of dollars at stake here and the big toxic sellers are not >> going down without a fight. A conspiracy can be more than two guys getting >> together to plot how to do you wrong. For instance, when giant companies A, B, >> & C, all members of the Association of Chemical Manufacturers (or whatever), >> independently send their detail men out to spread disinformation, I call that, >> too, conspiracy. >> >> These people do not have our best interests at heart. They are there to make a >> profit and only become interested in the enviornment when the toxic crap starts >> seeping out of the ground neath *their* barbecue grill. >> >> And, to go back on topic, please discount a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g said by a GE seed >> seller. I repeat: they *ain't* doing it for your health. >> >> Regards, >> Rex Harrill > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 15:57:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12536 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:57:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA19940; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:49:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19550 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:47:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.59] (pm3shep1-163-51.intrepid.net [209.190.163.51]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21954; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:49:16 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <011501be546a$a0344800$1d1b60cf@khansen.animalwelfare.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:49:41 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: AG-LIFE was Re: newbie organic gardener Cc: mcdougo@aol.com Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 201 >I've really enjoyed reading all of your posts, I am learning a lot, but >don't have much to contriubte at this point. I am looking for a supplier of >colloidal phosphate, greensand and limestone. Anyone know where to procure >a few tons of each around the DC area? TIA, Kelly Hansen, Wash, DC khansen@animalwelfare.com That w.b. DOUG BRITT, of AG-Life (301) 432-4624 (there's a 800 number also, maybe REX can post it... wait a minute, DOUG is a subscriber to BDNOW! Maybe he will pipe up, but I don't think he's as computer-hatibutated as many of us, so it might take a while. YOu can also email him at MCDOUGO@aol.com, if you're not embarassed to type that in.) Doug is honest, knowledgeable, and cheap PLUS if you buy a ton of GRANITE DUST from him, I'll be he'll sell me 2 or 3 also!! :-) -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 15:57:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12547 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:57:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA19849; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:49:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19538 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:47:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.59] (pm3shep1-163-51.intrepid.net [209.190.163.51]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21857 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:49:13 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:43:50 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 202 Anyone headed out to this conference (UMOFC) from the east coast? I sure could use a ride! Let me know what your plans are. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 16:00:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12592 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:00:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA20366; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20028 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:50:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AK86-0002SZ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:51:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36C09F88.3258FEF7@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 12:50:16 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99 References: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C08247.FAA09417@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 203 Martin, I'll be glad to be part of it. Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Great! But Sure Would be Nice to have such a conference in the Northwestern > US... What would it cost to get some instructors out here? Anyone want to > volunteer to help me organize it? > > Martin Nyberg > GreenMan Farm CSA > Vashon WA, USA > > "Julie M." wrote: > > > Hi everyone... > > > > Just wanted to remind all of you that our own Hugh Lovel will be giving > > a 5-hour seminar on Biodynamics at the Upper Midwest Organic > > Farming Conference at Sinsinawa Mound (a fab place, considered sacred by the > > Native Americans, and now a happening place, run by retired nuns who have > > extensive organic gardens, vineyards and even a dairy herd! See this place > > at http://www.sinsinawa.org/smc.htm ) > > > > Hugh will be speaking with Clair Hall of Releaf, Inc., who's an amazing > > biodynamic farmer from Minnesota. (Clair is a sweet BD soul, all her gardens > > are named after her favorite authors, she can make rain, and she makes an > > outstanding "Glad Heart" tea, among other things!) > > > > I know you're thinking this seminar should cost at least $150, but in fact, > > it is a steal at a mere $45...Yup - that comes out to about $9/hr! And the > > March 4th seminar is rapidly approaching, so check out the website for the > > UMOFC at http://agile.net/UMOFC/ > > > > Here's the seminar description: > > > > "Biodynamics is Agriculture in Motion. Growing food is really about life, > > and life forces are always moving, always dynamic. These forces play a > > critical role in the health and growth of plants, animals, and people. Hugh > > Lovel, founder of Union Ag Institute in Blairsville, Georgia and Clair Hall, > > founder of Releaf, Inc. in Wabasha, MN, will bring you the basics of > > biodynamics. Explore the cosmos in a microcosm; discuss the flows of free > > ether and how it may become bound ether on your farm. Learn how we can work > > with the life forces to increase the vitality of our farms and our spirits." > > > > Hope to see you there! > > > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 16:44:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13586 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:44:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA28688; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:36:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27620 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:28:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from khansen (awi0113.animalwelfare.com [207.96.27.29]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id QAA00299 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:30:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <012b01be5473$d4896960$1d1b60cf@khansen.animalwelfare.com> From: "Kelly Hansen" To: Subject: Re: AG-LIFE was Re: newbie organic gardener Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:33:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 204 Dear Allen, Thanks for the lead. I called Doug and he was quite helpful. Are you in the DC area? Maybe we could share delivery charges? That is, if my "land deal" comes through. I am trying to negotiate a land-for-vegetables-and-flowers agreement with a local convent. If this is not successful, I guess it is back to gardening on the roof! Thanks again, love the list, Kelly -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: mcdougo@aol.com Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 3:51 PM Subject: AG-LIFE was Re: newbie organic gardener >>I've really enjoyed reading all of your posts, I am learning a lot, but >>don't have much to contriubte at this point. I am looking for a supplier of >>colloidal phosphate, greensand and limestone. Anyone know where to procure >>a few tons of each around the DC area? TIA, Kelly Hansen, Wash, DC >khansen@animalwelfare.com > > >That w.b. DOUG BRITT, of AG-Life (301) 432-4624 (there's a 800 number also, >maybe REX can post it... wait a minute, DOUG is a subscriber to BDNOW! >Maybe he will pipe up, but I don't think he's as computer-hatibutated as >many of us, so it might take a while. YOu can also email him at >MCDOUGO@aol.com, if you're not embarassed to type that in.) > >Doug is honest, knowledgeable, and cheap PLUS if you buy a ton of GRANITE >DUST from him, I'll be he'll sell me 2 or 3 also!! :-) > >-Allan Balliett >moderator, BD NOW! > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 17:02:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13944 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:02:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA02185; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:52:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01693 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:50:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-003.midcoast.com [208.153.20.103]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23994 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:52:20 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990209163839.007e9ec0@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 16:38:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: RE: the error of OUR ways In-Reply-To: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF6B@drucker.niehs.nih .gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 205 Dear Friends, When it comes to resisting unhealthy economic and social activity, of course, we all have a part to play. For some the part is one of bluntly telling the world of the crimes of genetic manipulation. For others the part is one of building healthy alternatives such as biodynamic farms founded in associative economic principles. A third part, just as important as the previous two, is that of conscious observer. People who seek to penetrate the working of evil and to comprehend its many faces do much to bring light into the world. Evil wishes to not be seen. Evil wishes to be portrayed as good. Evil wishes to call truth by the name of falsehood, and wishes to label its lies as matters of moral relativism. A person who ponders the actions of corporate GE activity and lets these images rest deeply in his or her heart can use the power of love to break through the darkness which threatens to destroy humanity. Letter writing and public speaking against GE is important. Building new social and agricultural forms is necessary. Love, above all else, is an absolute requirement for changing the course of contemporary events. As I recall, from the book by Sergei Prokofieff, "The spiritual Origins of Eastern Europe and the Future Mysteries of the Holy Grail", he reports that Steiner stated that it would have only taken twelve individuals who were capable of Michaelic thinking to prevent the Russian revolution from going the way of bolshevism. May we find the courage to see into the darkness and to let the light of truth dazzle the opposing forces with its brightness. John Thomas At 01:06 PM 2/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >ferdy, >you are very sensitive (not a bad thing). i did not interpret your words to >say that you didn't believe everyone played a part, just that your focus was >on the machinery and i felt it didn't acknowledge each individual's personal >responsibility for the horror. i was only adding to the great brainstorm we >continually engage in here on the list. snip >Olivia From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 17:24:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14617 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05623; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04813 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:06:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp345.cy-net.net [208.21.195.154]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA20648 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:22:21 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5444.523A14C0@FLYLO>; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:53:22 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5444.523A14C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: goat poop Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:53:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id RAA04816 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 206 I just spent the better part of the afternoon scraping out a spare goat pen. It hasn't seen much use this season, but I wanted to get down to the wet packed mucky stuff to let it air dry. The top layer(s) were hauled off to the compost area, but the heavy packed, nitrogen-rich sub layers are now leering at my garden. I'm not sure if I should compost this out further (it's WELL broken down), or can I use it as mulch straight on. I usually just mulch the walkways then move on over and plant over them. But this is really too good to waste in a pathway if I can use it anywhere in the beds themselves. I'm pretty lucky, we've been here since 1864 and no one has used poisons at all. Besides, I have all the topsoil from my neighboring hillsides as well. I don't NEED goat poop on my garden, but I like for the animals to contribute their fair share, and the garden looks nicer under a deep layer of bedding. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 18:09:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15741 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:09:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA14232; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:57:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13198 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:52:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AM2i-0007FF-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:54:08 -0800 Message-ID: <36C0BC25.D6823D44@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 14:52:21 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: the error of OUR ways References: <3.0.5.32.19990209163839.007e9ec0@midcoast.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 207 Dear John, This is a jewel of a contribution. Many thanks Ferdinand John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett wrote: > Dear Friends, > > When it comes to resisting unhealthy economic and social activity, of > course, we all have a part to play. For some the part is one of bluntly > telling the world of the crimes of genetic manipulation. For others the > part is one of building healthy alternatives such as biodynamic farms > founded in associative economic principles. A third part, just as > important as the previous two, is that of conscious observer. People who > seek to penetrate the working of evil and to comprehend its many faces do > much to bring light into the world. Evil wishes to not be seen. Evil > wishes to be portrayed as good. Evil wishes to call truth by the name of > falsehood, and wishes to label its lies as matters of moral relativism. A > person who ponders the actions of corporate GE activity and lets these > images rest deeply in his or her heart can use the power of love to break > through the darkness which threatens to destroy humanity. Letter writing > and public speaking against GE is important. Building new social and > agricultural forms is necessary. Love, above all else, is an absolute > requirement for changing the course of contemporary events. > > As I recall, from the book by Sergei Prokofieff, "The spiritual Origins of > Eastern Europe and the Future Mysteries of the Holy Grail", he reports that > Steiner stated that it would have only taken twelve individuals who were > capable of Michaelic thinking to prevent the Russian revolution from going > the way of bolshevism. May we find the courage to see into the darkness > and to let the light of truth dazzle the opposing forces with its brightness. > > John Thomas > > At 01:06 PM 2/9/99 -0500, you wrote: > >ferdy, > >you are very sensitive (not a bad thing). i did not interpret your words to > >say that you didn't believe everyone played a part, just that your focus was > >on the machinery and i felt it didn't acknowledge each individual's personal > >responsibility for the horror. i was only adding to the great brainstorm we > >continually engage in here on the list. > > snip > > >Olivia From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 18:09:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15765 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:09:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA14058; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:57:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12944 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:51:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp79.blueriver.mwt.net [156.46.253.206]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA00913 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:51:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000b01be547e$a6e9b860$cefd2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: goat poop Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:50:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 208 Hey Martha! How old are you anyway? :-) Julie >I'm pretty lucky, we've been here since 1864 and no one has used poisons at all. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 18:13:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15840 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:13:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA14381; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:58:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14276 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:58:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AM80-0000Ta-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:59:37 -0800 Message-ID: <36C0BD6E.37E171EB@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 14:57:50 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: goat poop References: <01BE5444.523A14C0@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 209 Dear Martha, God, you are the oldes farmer I know of - 1864, and assuming that you were 30 when you got there, that makes you,let me see, 165 years or thereabouts. Congratulations. That's what I call longlevity. Now, goat manure is a hot manure. I would not use it in the garden directly. Compost it first. You would addtract too many 'helpful weeds' going the direct way. So, via compost. Say, a 2 - 3 month compost. and then give it to the high feeders. I recommend that you, in the future, spray Barrell Compost in the Goat Shed. Barrell Compost will help the breakingdown process while the animals are IN the stabel AND may, to a large extent, prevent hoof rot. If you have sheep that can really suffer of this illness, then, you know what i mean. So, Barrell Compost into the stable every 1 - 2 weeks, depending how many goats you have. Hope this helps. Regards, Ferdinand PS If you really have a lot of goats and your loafing barn is big, you may apply the Preparations directly. Martha Wells wrote: > I just spent the better part of the afternoon scraping out a spare goat pen. It hasn't seen much use this season, but I wanted to get down to the wet packed mucky stuff to let it air dry. The top layer(s) were hauled off to the compost area, but the heavy packed, nitrogen-rich sub layers are now leering at my garden. I'm not sure if I should compost this out further (it's WELL broken down), or can I use it as mulch straight on. > I usually just mulch the walkways then move on over and plant over them. But this is really too good to waste in a pathway if I can use it anywhere in the beds themselves. > I'm pretty lucky, we've been here since 1864 and no one has used poisons at all. Besides, I have all the topsoil from my neighboring hillsides as well. I don't NEED goat poop on my garden, but I like for the animals to contribute their fair share, and the garden looks nicer under a deep layer of bedding. > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 18:19:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15941 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:19:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16372; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:10:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16086 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:09:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AMIj-0002LM-00; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:10:41 -0800 Message-ID: <36C0C004.DACC8E20@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:08:53 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LUCIA SARADOFF CC: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Re: Internet Message References: <199902091502.KAA15274@mime3.prodigy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 210 Dear Lucia, Permit me to reply via the BDNOW and to you personally as well. The salmon business, here in the West of Canada or Northwest of US is in a mess. I remember how my mother told me (I was a young boy, perhaps 13 or so) when the AI (Artificial Insemination truck arrived at the neighbours farm) she said: And now, they have taken that away from the cows too. She meant the bull and love. And she continued, that cannot end well. And so it is. We have real problem with the cows. Well, with the Salmon it is even (much) worse. We have a salmon hatchery 2 miles down the river. Now, imagine, they catch the female, cut it open and extract the eggs. Then, they take the male, cut it to pieces and prinkle the semen over it. Well, that's making love, isn't it. I shudder and I am in agony. They call it wild Salmon. At least the offsprings are released and float back into the sea. The wonderful thing, here, are the eagles. Presently, about threethousandfivehundred, yes, eagles are sitting in the trees around our house and downstreams eating the dying salmon. It is a sight to behold. Many, many tourists are coming to see this event. It is a place of initiation, my friend. Where the high flying eagle meets the fish. Where the transformation from water to air takes place. At the same time we are fighting BCRail as they want to spray the tracks with Roundup, imagine, a few hundred feet besides the river. That's insanity. But other chemicals are being usesd, too. On an even sader note. There are commercial salmon fisheries downstreams i.e. in the sea. They rear millions of salmon. They are being kept so close together that they have to feed them antibiotics with their daily feed ration. Commercially kept salmon, i.e. the meat of salmon from so called salmon farms, is more yellowish and full of fat. Restaurants love it since it fryes more tenderly. Yet, it ain't healthy. And all the salmons get an injection; growth hormons so that they get about three times the size. What a feeling that must be. Yes, Lucia, that's the state we are in. Our daily meditations are of great value keeping these animals and the animal world at large deep in our hearts and thanking them for being with us and coming back and back again and again. Love Ferdinand LUCIA SARADOFF wrote: > Hi Ferdinand: was thinking of the state of salmon in States, which > they say are dying, not breeding as they once did. how to reverse > these things, so so sad, wasteful, an insult to the wisdom and power > that created all of it, us, including those wonderful creatures you > have seen feeding on them as they were supposed to. Have you > actually witnessed bears > salmon fishing? L From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 18:19:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15957 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:19:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA16436; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:10:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16280 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp345.cy-net.net [208.21.195.154]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA30365 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:25:41 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE544D.117BE5E0@FLYLO>; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:55:59 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE544D.117BE5E0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: 1864 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:55:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE544D.11838700" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 211 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE544D.11838700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wasn't a typo, 'collectively' I've been here since 1864! some days I = feel about that old. Was told I was the last of the Renaissance women, = and I'm beginning to think maybe it has some bearing on my tie to this = farm for so long.=20 I have jonquils my great (great?) grandmother planted in 1877. I know = most of the stories behind the huge oaks and pecans. I just don't know = what to do about all this goat poop! martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html -----Original Message----- From: Julie M. [SMTP:marq@mwt.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 4:51 PM To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: goat poop Hey Martha! How old are you anyway? :-) Julie >I'm pretty lucky, we've been here since 1864 and no one has used = poisons at all. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE544D.11838700 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjsWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEABQAAADE4NjQA0wABBYADAA4AAADPBwIACQAQADcAOgACAGQBASCAAwAO 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=_NextPart_000_01BE544D.11838700-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 22:06:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA18570 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:06:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA10285; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:56:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA09908 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:53:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp345.cy-net.net [208.21.195.154]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA03054 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:05:05 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO>; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:34:45 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:34:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE5452.7BB714C0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 212 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5452.7BB714C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, Ferdinand, bridling here a bit about AI. I can see that it has value = in a small farm operation, only it's the mega concerns that usually = benefit by the use of it. I have my bucks drawn and occasionally use AI = when I have daughters too close to their parents to go natural. (I'm an = AI technician both bovine and caprine.)=20 The ranchers around us wanted to get into the heavy beef industry = quickly by breeding their very small Hereford cows to huge bulls. It = took AI to turn the tide of cows dying in the attempts to birth = overlarge calves. (I also midwife most of this area hard deliveries = too.) By having a back log of bulls KNOWN to produce small birth weights, I = was able to produce the outcome the ranchers are looking for, yet save = the ma cows as well.=20 MANY ranchers are elderly and can't handle rough stock any more. AI is a = good tool for those gents who still need to farm and ranch for their = income. Oh, and that 'love' aspect.. that male goat would breed the cat if he = had the chance, so don't pity him that one or two breeding = opportunities. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5452.7BB714C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii0XAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu 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sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AQGV-00000h-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:24:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 19:22:41 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 213 Dear Martha, Well, well, well. Must it all go to pot? I understand your anger. It ain't easy. I know. We are were we are. AI is in, the bull is out. So, let us look at the situation. Steiner (approx 1924): within 50 years you'll have such problems due to AI, and it started in his time, that you may have to ask yourself: what can be done with our cows. Illnesses, deformations, infertility and so forth. Martha, there is a lot more happening when a bull breeds a cow that semen being unloaded into a vagina (with a siringe.....) I am sure you have watched the mating dance of a bull and a cow. Something very spiritual and etheric is, indeed, happening. Or, have you ever seen how cows fight for their first place in the herd? It is not a bull that is leading a herd, as you know, it is the strongest cow. In Switzerland, in the Kanton of Appenzell, there are cow fights and it is moving to see how they push and press each other out of the ring until the strongest Mama has been found. We have to find new ways, Martha. We really have to. I am sure you are doing a fine job. I am not attacking you. But we have to ask ourselves what the future will bring (if we continue via AI only) and what we are doing (if we disallow the mating process). We cannot remain stagnant. I had a horny billygoat, too. Don't think that I am of yesteryear. He was dangerous, aggressive and wouldn't take a no for an answer. He almost killed my daughter. Well, so much for the aggressive billy goat. I hope we got that one out of the discussion. Let's return to the cows and what is happening there. As the cow goes into heat and is 'stanging' she envelopes herself into an aura of 'being ready to receive'. The most fabulous colours (in her aura) do appear. Take your time and sit by a cow that is getting ready. You will see the most incredible (aura) changes. Now, Kirlian photography may help if you cannot see it or if you do not have the time. When the bull approaches, and inseminates her, she explodes into (or perhaps: implodes into) a caleidoscopic multitude of colours absorbing his colour in the act. And the entire spectrum of colors, almost like a frozen rainbow that is falling into millions of little rainbows (a bit difficult to explain) this spectrum of colors is being absorbed by her, in the mating act. The cow does not only absorb the semen. To me, it appears as if the semen is a by-product. The semen is the material part of the mating process. I can only add the above to describe the situation. And when the AI-Van arrives and squirts the semen into the cow, well, let it be a 'clean' inseminator, a clean engineer. If he or she is not, beware of what is happening because the aura, the colorfield of the cow attaches itself to the inseminator. And so, it will travel with the person, the engineer throughout his/her life.... and onwards. That's my story, Martha. have a good evening. Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > Ok, Ferdinand, bridling here a bit about AI. I can see that it has value in a small farm operation, only it's the mega concerns that usually benefit by the use of it. I have my bucks drawn and occasionally use AI when I have daughters too close to their parents to go natural. (I'm an AI technician both bovine and caprine.) > The ranchers around us wanted to get into the heavy beef industry quickly by breeding their very small Hereford cows to huge bulls. It took AI to turn the tide of cows dying in the attempts to birth overlarge calves. (I also midwife most of this area hard deliveries too.) > By having a back log of bulls KNOWN to produce small birth weights, I was able to produce the outcome the ranchers are looking for, yet save the ma cows as well. > MANY ranchers are elderly and can't handle rough stock any more. AI is a good tool for those gents who still need to farm and ranch for their income. > Oh, and that 'love' aspect.. that male goat would breed the cat if he had the chance, so don't pity him that one or two breeding opportunities. > > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 22:52:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19487 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:52:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA16010; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:43:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15898 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:43:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-143-83.s20.as1.hgt.erols.com [207.172.143.83]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA19374 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:45:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C0FFDB.D9A36EC3@erols.com> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 22:41:15 -0500 From: Rex Harrill Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 214 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > As the cow goes into heat and is 'stanging' she envelopes herself into an aura of 'being ready to receive'. The most fabulous colours (in her aura) do appear. Take your time and sit by a cow that is getting ready. You will see the most incredible (aura) changes. Now, Kirlian photography may help if you cannot see it or if you do > not have the time. > > When the bull approaches, and inseminates her, she explodes into (or perhaps: implodes into) a caleidoscopic multitude of colours absorbing his colour in the act. And the entire spectrum of colors, almost like a frozen rainbow that is falling into millions of little rainbows (a bit difficult to explain) this spectrum of colors > is being absorbed by her, in the mating act. The cow does not only absorb the semen. To me, it appears as if the semen is a by-product. The semen is the material part of the mating process. This is one of the most powerful documents I have seen in years. Ferdinand, shivers went through me. You captured it *exactly*! And, dare I hope, many others will get those shivers, too. Perhaps they will look around and realize that it is not just the newly arrived hard-to-breed animals that are in trouble---we are too. Thanks, Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 22:55:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19568 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:55:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA16304; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:46:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16246 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:46:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay01912478.acay.com.au [203.19.124.78]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA29029 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:04:41 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:47:57 +1100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990209163839.007e9ec0@midcoast.com> X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: Re: the error of OUR ways MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 215 On 10-Feb-99, you wrote: John, Thank you for the wonderful answer to my awkwardly phrased question. How do we make the 'blind' see? And as so many have pointed out we all have 'sight' problems. Thank you for this deeply considered response. As a beginner on this path your guidance is much appreciated. Margaret. > Dear Friends, > > When it comes to resisting unhealthy economic and social activity, of > course, we all have a part to play. For some the part is one of bluntly > telling the world of the crimes of genetic manipulation. For others the > part is one of building healthy alternatives such as biodynamic farms > founded in associative economic principles. A third part, just as > important as the previous two, is that of conscious observer. People who > seek to penetrate the working of evil and to comprehend its many faces do > much to bring light into the world. Evil wishes to not be seen. Evil > wishes to be portrayed as good. Evil wishes to call truth by the name of > falsehood, and wishes to label its lies as matters of moral relativism. A > person who ponders the actions of corporate GE activity and lets these > images rest deeply in his or her heart can use the power of love to break > through the darkness which threatens to destroy humanity. Letter writing > and public speaking against GE is important. Building new social and > agricultural forms is necessary. Love, above all else, is an absolute > requirement for changing the course of contemporary events. > > As I recall, from the book by Sergei Prokofieff, "The spiritual Origins of > Eastern Europe and the Future Mysteries of the Holy Grail", he reports that > Steiner stated that it would have only taken twelve individuals who were > capable of Michaelic thinking to prevent the Russian revolution from going > the way of bolshevism. May we find the courage to see into the darkness and > to let the light of truth dazzle the opposing forces with its brightness. > > > John Thomas > > At 01:06 PM 2/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >> ferdy, >> you are very sensitive (not a bad thing). i did not interpret your words >> to say that you didn't believe everyone played a part, just that your >> focus was on the machinery and i felt it didn't acknowledge each >> individual's personal responsibility for the horror. i was only adding to >> the great brainstorm we continually engage in here on the list. > > snip > >> Olivia > Regards From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 23:09:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA19771 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:09:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17545; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17130 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:55:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AQla-0005sF-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:56:47 -0800 Message-ID: <36C10308.D2D9185A@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 19:54:48 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> <36C0FFDB.D9A36EC3@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 216 Dear Rex, Since I had to write this 'report' in my coputer (and not in front of the mating cows) I was not as exact as I should have been - or perhaps not as explicit. I did not mention the mixing of the auras, the coming together, the firework of enmeshing, it is an act to behold - and it takes nanoseconds. It is not like a long outdrawn thing. It really is a short 'spectacle' IF one is permitted to say so. The mating act, as most farmers know, may take 15 seconds, no more. And I am sure there is NO LUST involved. Really not. The 'lust' if we want to fall as low as that in our description, is the firework of colors - the unbelievable beauty of Mantras and interweaving meandering pictures that arise. and this can take hours. the final peak comes with the mating act and is eye-blinding. I may 'warn' those who want to observe this activity for curiousity's sake that it may burn their spiritual eye. You have to move yourself into a 'neutral', love imbued position, cleaning the arena where the mating act shall take place and be steadfast and strong. Blessed are the blind, one may want to say from time to time, as they will not lose their eyes. Yet, they will not see anything either. Rex, I am sorry if I have not been as clean and clear as I should have. Regards Ferdinand Rex Harrill wrote: > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > As the cow goes into heat and is 'stanging' she envelopes herself into an aura of 'being ready to receive'. The most fabulous colours (in her aura) do appear. Take your time and sit by a cow that is getting ready. You will see the most incredible (aura) changes. Now, Kirlian photography may help if you cannot see it or if you do > > not have the time. > > > > When the bull approaches, and inseminates her, she explodes into (or perhaps: implodes into) a caleidoscopic multitude of colours absorbing his colour in the act. And the entire spectrum of colors, almost like a frozen rainbow that is falling into millions of little rainbows (a bit difficult to explain) this spectrum of colors > > is being absorbed by her, in the mating act. The cow does not only absorb the semen. To me, it appears as if the semen is a by-product. The semen is the material part of the mating process. > > This is one of the most powerful documents I have seen in years. Ferdinand, shivers went through me. You captured it *exactly*! And, dare I hope, many others will get those shivers, too. Perhaps they will look around and realize that it is not just the newly arrived hard-to-breed animals that are in trouble---we are too. > > Thanks, > Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 23:25:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20088 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:25:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA19583; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:16:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19227 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:12:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.79] (pm3shep2-163-79.intrepid.net [209.190.163.79]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA15031 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:14:28 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:12:36 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Honeybee Quote Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 217 Not much luck with the honeybee quote so far! Here's the favorite one of BD Honeybee Symposium Founder, Jim Jensen: > "That the life of the hive is extraordinarily wisely organized no one who >has ever observed it can deny. Naturally, no one can say that the bees >have the same kind of intelligence that men have, for we certainly have >the instrument of the brain, whereas the bees have nothing of the kind; >thus the universal world wisdom cannot be drawn into their bodies in the >same way. But influences coming from the whole surrounding universe do, >none the less, work with immense power in the bee-hive. Indeed, one can >only arrive at a right understanding of what the life of the bees truly >is, when one takes into account that the whole environment of the earth >has a very great influence upon the life of the colony." Rudolf Steiner >1923 9 Lectures on Bees I'm looking for something a little more succinct, the quote above requires a fair amount of knowledge of RS to really appreciate. I'm looking for something that may illuminate the reader to how much the honeybee contributes to the food we eat and to Nature around us. Your favorite quote, or any suggestions, would be greatly appreciated. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 23:37:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20222 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:37:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA20900; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:28:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20389 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:24:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-4-p91.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.91]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02432 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:26:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C1077D.7B407EAF@seattle2000.com> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:14:01 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 218 Hi Ferdy and all, I have a problem. Reading email from you, or Martha and a few others is very difficult because I have to scroll horizontally. Your messages are not coming with defined margins. Can I ask what email software you use? I want to figure this out so I know the answer to the problem. Anyone else have this problem? Martin Nyberg Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Dear Martha, > Well, well, well. Must it all go to pot? I understand your anger. It ain't easy. I know. We are were we are. AI is in, the bull is out. So, let us look at the situation. > > Steiner (approx 1924): within 50 years you'll have such problems due to AI, and it started in his time, that you may have to ask yourself: what can be done with our cows. Illnesses, deformations, infertility and so forth. > > Martha, there is a lot more happening when a bull breeds a cow that semen being unloaded into a vagina (with a siringe.....) > > I am sure you have watched the mating dance of a bull and a cow. Something very spiritual and etheric is, indeed, happening. Or, have you ever seen how cows fight for their first place in the herd? It is not a bull that is leading a herd, as you know, it is the strongest cow. In Switzerland, in the Kanton of Appenzell, there > are cow fights and it is moving to see how they push and press each other out of the ring until the strongest Mama has been found. > > We have to find new ways, Martha. We really have to. I am sure you are doing a fine job. I am not attacking you. But we have to ask ourselves what the future will bring (if we continue via AI only) and what we are doing (if we disallow the mating process). We cannot remain stagnant. > > I had a horny billygoat, too. Don't think that I am of yesteryear. He was dangerous, aggressive and wouldn't take a no for an answer. He almost killed my daughter. Well, so much for the aggressive billy goat. I hope we got that one out of the discussion. > > Let's return to the cows and what is happening there. > > As the cow goes into heat and is 'stanging' she envelopes herself into an aura of 'being ready to receive'. The most fabulous colours (in her aura) do appear. Take your time and sit by a cow that is getting ready. You will see the most incredible (aura) changes. Now, Kirlian photography may help if you cannot see it or if you > do not have the time. > > When the bull approaches, and inseminates her, she explodes into (or perhaps: implodes into) a caleidoscopic multitude of colours absorbing his colour in the act. And the entire spectrum of colors, almost like a frozen rainbow that is falling into millions of little rainbows (a bit difficult to explain) this spectrum of colors > is being absorbed by her, in the mating act. The cow does not only absorb the semen. To me, it appears as if the semen is a by-product. The semen is the material part of the mating process. > > I can only add the above to describe the situation. And when the AI-Van arrives and squirts the semen into the cow, well, let it be a 'clean' inseminator, a clean engineer. If he or she is not, beware of what is happening because the aura, the colorfield of the cow attaches itself to the inseminator. And so, it will travel > with the person, the engineer throughout his/her life.... and onwards. > > That's my story, Martha. > > have a good evening. Ferdinand > > Martha Wells wrote: > > > Ok, Ferdinand, bridling here a bit about AI. I can see that it has value in a small farm operation, only it's the mega concerns that usually benefit by the use of it. I have my bucks drawn and occasionally use AI when I have daughters too close to their parents to go natural. (I'm an AI technician both bovine and caprine.) > > The ranchers around us wanted to get into the heavy beef industry quickly by breeding their very small Hereford cows to huge bulls. It took AI to turn the tide of cows dying in the attempts to birth overlarge calves. (I also midwife most of this area hard deliveries too.) > > By having a back log of bulls KNOWN to produce small birth weights, I was able to produce the outcome the ranchers are looking for, yet save the ma cows as well. > > MANY ranchers are elderly and can't handle rough stock any more. AI is a good tool for those gents who still need to farm and ranch for their income. > > Oh, and that 'love' aspect.. that male goat would breed the cat if he had the chance, so don't pity him that one or two breeding opportunities. > > > > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 9 23:58:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20874 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA22905; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:48:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22809 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:47:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.79] (pm3shep2-163-79.intrepid.net [209.190.163.79]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20713 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:49:14 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36C1077D.7B407EAF@seattle2000.com> References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:41:38 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: MARTIN's MAILER was Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 219 Martin, my friend, nothing jolts a guy more than opening a post about artificial insemination to find a rant about text formatting!! Please create an appropriate new 'subject' when you're changing an existing one. The problem is on your end. Messages can be mailed with 'flowing text' or with 'line returns.' On your end, you need to turn on 'text wrap' or some such thing, this should format EVERYONE's text to the size of your reader window. Ferdy's body text is as it should be: free flowing!!! Let me know off-line if you need more help. -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! igg@igg.com >Hi Ferdy and all, >I have a problem. Reading email from you, or Martha and a few others is >very difficult because I have to scroll horizontally. Your messages are >not coming with defined margins. Can I ask what email software you use? >I want to figure this out so I know the answer to the problem. Anyone >else have this problem? >Martin Nyberg > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 00:36:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21276 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:36:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA26484; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26393 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:23:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.79] (pm3shep2-163-79.intrepid.net [209.190.163.79]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25736 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:25:29 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:26:19 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: The Biodynamic Honeybee Symposium Website Updated! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 220 I've finally finished updating the Biodynamic Honeybee Symposium web-site. You can take a look at it at: http://igg.com/spiritual_ag/european/steiner/beekeeping/beesymposium/ There are now SEVEN Symposiums!! Here are the topics: #1 Honeybee Health #2 The Hive Box #3 Springtime in the Apiary #4 Swarming #5 Beekeeper Practices #6 Varorra #7 The Spiritual Side of Beekeeping Which reminds me: Do you know anyone who is working with essential oils in honey? **AND** Do you know of a good quote that sets off the honeybee's contribution to horticulture? Thanks -Allan "Skemp" Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 06:16:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA24251 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:16:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA12998; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:02:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA08083 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:48:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp222.cy-net.net [208.21.195.31]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA02688 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:03:48 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE549D.04316FE0@FLYLO>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:28:16 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE549D.04316FE0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic.. Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:28:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE549D.043A97A0" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 221 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE549D.043A97A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One more post on AI, then I quit this theme. It's not on the main agenda = anyhow. I use the method as a tool when I have to think of avoiding = inbreeding or if I have a bloodline I want to preserve. I have seen the = results of ignorance in ranching when pasture breeding wrong animals = together. 9 months later, no matter the mating aura, the cow suffers = greatly if she's danced before the wrong bull. If there's only one in = the pasture, it's the owner's fault of course, but still doesn't help = the cow give birth to impossible offspring. I've seen my work as a = valuable tool to enable farmers keep brood cows they otherwise would = have destroyed. If there were more documentation on birth weights = resulting from bulls using natural service, this wouldn't be a problem.=20 Ferdy, I can agree with most of your posts, but on reading them as a = whole, I'd have to conclude that you are saying that all technology is = bad.=20 To the person who is having trouble with my posts, please find Format / = and select word wrap or 'wrap to fit lines'. I'm using MS Outlook and it = uses Word as an e-mail writer. For some reason, it goes 130 letters per = line before wrapping back. If I could change it to wrap at lesser = letters, I surely would. martha (tx)=20 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE549D.043A97A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhEIAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEAMgAAAFJFOiBhcnRpZmljaWFsIGluc2VtaW5hdGlvbiBPRkYgdGhlIHBs 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------ =_NextPart_000_01BE549D.043A97A0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 06:17:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA24259 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:17:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA13596; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:07:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA13546 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:06:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0109.direct.ca ([204.244.83.9] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AXVH-0005Fa-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:08:24 -0800 Message-ID: <36C1681D.A454D008@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:06:05 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination OFF the plant topic..(computer ware..) References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> <36C1077D.7B407EAF@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 222 Dear Martin, Atop of your window should be (in view) a line saying: wrap lines. If you press that button, the lines will appear within your window, I think. I am using Window 98. It has a few more bells and whistles and I liked 95 much better (beforehand). But, like anything that you use for a while: you are getting used to.......! Made Bill Gates more money, hm? But my problem is my son......! He is a computer specialist working for a computer store and ever so happy if he can install new tricks and inventions. At the beginning I almost went berserk. Now, it is getting better, I must say. Mind you, come to think of it, I have a problem with opening Martha's mail too. I need a Plug In Finder (or whatever it is called) and download it. Any recommendations? Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Hi Ferdy and all, > I have a problem. Reading email from you, or Martha and a few others is very difficult because I have to scroll horizontally. Your messages are not coming with defined margins. Can I ask what email software you use? I want to figure this out so I know the answer to the problem. Anyone else have this problem? > Martin Nyberg > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Dear Martha, > > Well, well, well. Must it all go to pot? I understand your anger. It ain't easy. I know. We are were we are. AI is in, the bull is out. So, let us look at the situation. > > > > Steiner (approx 1924): within 50 years you'll have such problems due to AI, and it started in his time, that you may have to ask yourself: what can be done with our cows. Illnesses, deformations, infertility and so forth. > > > > Martha, there is a lot more happening when a bull breeds a cow that semen being unloaded into a vagina (with a siringe.....) > > > > I am sure you have watched the mating dance of a bull and a cow. Something very spiritual and etheric is, indeed, happening. Or, have you ever seen how cows fight for their first place in the herd? It is not a bull that is leading a herd, as you know, it is the strongest cow. In Switzerland, in the Kanton of Appenzell, there > > are cow fights and it is moving to see how they push and press each other out of the ring until the strongest Mama has been found. > > > > We have to find new ways, Martha. We really have to. I am sure you are doing a fine job. I am not attacking you. But we have to ask ourselves what the future will bring (if we continue via AI only) and what we are doing (if we disallow the mating process). We cannot remain stagnant. > > > > I had a horny billygoat, too. Don't think that I am of yesteryear. He was dangerous, aggressive and wouldn't take a no for an answer. He almost killed my daughter. Well, so much for the aggressive billy goat. I hope we got that one out of the discussion. > > > > Let's return to the cows and what is happening there. > > > > As the cow goes into heat and is 'stanging' she envelopes herself into an aura of 'being ready to receive'. The most fabulous colours (in her aura) do appear. Take your time and sit by a cow that is getting ready. You will see the most incredible (aura) changes. Now, Kirlian photography may help if you cannot see it or if you > > do not have the time. > > > > When the bull approaches, and inseminates her, she explodes into (or perhaps: implodes into) a caleidoscopic multitude of colours absorbing his colour in the act. And the entire spectrum of colors, almost like a frozen rainbow that is falling into millions of little rainbows (a bit difficult to explain) this spectrum of colors > > is being absorbed by her, in the mating act. The cow does not only absorb the semen. To me, it appears as if the semen is a by-product. The semen is the material part of the mating process. > > > > I can only add the above to describe the situation. And when the AI-Van arrives and squirts the semen into the cow, well, let it be a 'clean' inseminator, a clean engineer. If he or she is not, beware of what is happening because the aura, the colorfield of the cow attaches itself to the inseminator. And so, it will travel > > with the person, the engineer throughout his/her life.... and onwards. > > > > That's my story, Martha. > > > > have a good evening. Ferdinand > > > > Martha Wells wrote: > > > > > Ok, Ferdinand, bridling here a bit about AI. I can see that it has value in a small farm operation, only it's the mega concerns that usually benefit by the use of it. I have my bucks drawn and occasionally use AI when I have daughters too close to their parents to go natural. (I'm an AI technician both bovine and caprine.) > > > The ranchers around us wanted to get into the heavy beef industry quickly by breeding their very small Hereford cows to huge bulls. It took AI to turn the tide of cows dying in the attempts to birth overlarge calves. (I also midwife most of this area hard deliveries too.) > > > By having a back log of bulls KNOWN to produce small birth weights, I was able to produce the outcome the ranchers are looking for, yet save the ma cows as well. > > > MANY ranchers are elderly and can't handle rough stock any more. AI is a good tool for those gents who still need to farm and ranch for their income. > > > Oh, and that 'love' aspect.. that male goat would breed the cat if he had the chance, so don't pity him that one or two breeding opportunities. > > > > > > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > > > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 06:27:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA24609 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:27:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA14613; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:18:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA13985 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:11:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0109.direct.ca ([204.244.83.9] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AXZU-00001N-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:12:44 -0800 Message-ID: <36C16920.A3756FE8@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:10:24 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: The Biodynamic Honeybee Symposium Website Updated! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 223 Dear Skemp (Allan) It is a marvellous site. May I suggest that you put on each jar what kind of honey is inside. No, kidding aside, by not knowing what is behind each jar, one has to open all of them to see whether it is symposium, swarming, health etc. etc. Could this be written on the jar in some ways. Many thanks for your excellent work, Allan. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > I've finally finished updating the Biodynamic Honeybee Symposium web-site. > > You can take a look at it at: > > http://igg.com/spiritual_ag/european/steiner/beekeeping/beesymposium/ > > There are now SEVEN Symposiums!! Here are the topics: > > #1 Honeybee Health > #2 The Hive Box > #3 Springtime in the Apiary > #4 Swarming > #5 Beekeeper Practices > #6 Varorra > #7 The Spiritual Side of Beekeeping > > Which reminds me: Do you know anyone who is working with essential oils in > honey? > > **AND** > > Do you know of a good quote that sets off the honeybee's contribution to > horticulture? > > Thanks > > -Allan "Skemp" Balliett > igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 06:42:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA24742 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:42:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA15361; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:33:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA15238 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:32:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0109.direct.ca ([204.244.83.9] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AXtp-00010n-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:33:45 -0800 Message-ID: <36C16E05.667A2513@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:31:17 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination References: <01BE549D.04316FE0@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 224 Dear Martha, No, I would never dare to say that all technology is bad. I do not know HOW you come to this conclusion. My question is this: can we improve. Can we, by observing the dance, by observing the mating process etc. etc. find (a new) method that includes to a large extent WHAT is happening between the two animals. I fully agree with what you are saying and I have seen cows suffer, too. Yet, I have tried to live with what I have observed at the AI Centre in Cloverdale, BC (Canada) which is very famous. Here, the bulls jump an artificial cow, leave the semen in a vat that goes to the deepfreez and then, the bull disappear in the butcher's shop - their semen travelling on for ever..... i.e. with the engineer. What can be done to bring a more human, a more spiritual understanding to the problem. That's my question? There are two sides to this challenge, Martha. The one is the suffering cow (at birth) with a calf that does not fit (the pelvis opening) and, on the other side is the bull that is mechanized and butchered. It would be a great tragedy IF you would leave this discussion. I am sure you have the most experience of us all in what needs to be done before, during and at the insemination process and also with the choice of breed, semen and whatever goes with it. Martha, the reason why we often are in such a mess (economically, in farming, in schools the whole society) is imho. the fact that either the spiritual guys, or the technicians (or both) walk away from each other and call - to make matters even wors - each other names. There are purists like my wife. There are people like me who are trying to carry these ideas into the worl, ideas that still look rather purist. And then there are those who have to live with the daily challenges and may use some of these 'pure' ideas. Take Steiner, he never demanded that his ideas be introduced the way he brought them. He was of the opinion that (on an ideological level) one has to bring the pure idea(s) to the table. However, the world is not a pure place, (truism?) but a place where the pure idea will have to adapt itself to the world and must try to survive i.e. help to make the world a purer place. Well, I am trying to correct the impression that I am not for progress, new ideas or whatever. What else can I say. The best I say: kind regards. Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > One more post on AI, then I quit this theme. It's not on the main agenda anyhow. I use the method as a tool when I have to think of avoiding inbreeding or if I have a bloodline I want to preserve. I have seen the results of ignorance in ranching when pasture breeding wrong animals together. 9 months later, no matter the mating aura, the cow suffers greatly if she's danced before the wrong bull. If there's only one in the pasture, it's the owner's fault of course, but still doesn't help the cow give birth to impossible offspring. I've seen my work as a valuable tool to enable farmers keep brood cows they otherwise would have destroyed. If there were more documentation on birth weights resulting from bulls using natural service, this wouldn't be a problem. > Ferdy, I can agree with most of your posts, but on reading them as a whole, I'd have to conclude that you are saying that all technology is bad. > To the person who is having trouble with my posts, please find Format / and select word wrap or 'wrap to fit lines'. I'm using MS Outlook and it uses Word as an e-mail writer. For some reason, it goes 130 letters per line before wrapping back. If I could change it to wrap at lesser letters, I surely would. > martha (tx) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 06:42:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA24750 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:42:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA15321; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:33:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA15211 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:31:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10AXtT-0004MQ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:33:24 +0000 Message-ID: <36C159B7.9F4E2E13@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:04:39 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Horizontal scrolling Allan References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> <36C1077D.7B407EAF@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 225 Yes Nearly all the messages are now coming through requiring horizontal scrolling - whats happening? Alison Martin Nyberg wrote: > Hi Ferdy and all, > I have a problem. Reading email from you, or Martha and a few others is very difficult because I have to scroll horizontally. Your messages are not coming with defined margins. Can I ask what email software you use? I want to figure this out so I know the answer to the problem. Anyone else have this problem? > Martin Nyberg > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Dear Martha, > > Well, well, well. Must it all go to pot? I understand your anger. It ain't easy. I know. We are were we are. AI is in, the bull is out. So, let us look at the situation. > > > > Steiner (approx 1924): within 50 years you'll have such problems due to AI, and it started in his time, that you may have to ask yourself: what can be done with our cows. Illnesses, deformations, infertility and so forth. > > > > Martha, there is a lot more happening when a bull breeds a cow that semen being unloaded into a vagina (with a siringe.....) > > > > I am sure you have watched the mating dance of a bull and a cow. Something very spiritual and etheric is, indeed, happening. Or, have you ever seen how cows fight for their first place in the herd? It is not a bull that is leading a herd, as you know, it is the strongest cow. In Switzerland, in the Kanton of Appenzell, there > > are cow fights and it is moving to see how they push and press each other out of the ring until the strongest Mama has been found. > > > > We have to find new ways, Martha. We really have to. I am sure you are doing a fine job. I am not attacking you. But we have to ask ourselves what the future will bring (if we continue via AI only) and what we are doing (if we disallow the mating process). We cannot remain stagnant. > > > > I had a horny billygoat, too. Don't think that I am of yesteryear. He was dangerous, aggressive and wouldn't take a no for an answer. He almost killed my daughter. Well, so much for the aggressive billy goat. I hope we got that one out of the discussion. > > > > Let's return to the cows and what is happening there. > > > > As the cow goes into heat and is 'stanging' she envelopes herself into an aura of 'being ready to receive'. The most fabulous colours (in her aura) do appear. Take your time and sit by a cow that is getting ready. You will see the most incredible (aura) changes. Now, Kirlian photography may help if you cannot see it or if you > > do not have the time. > > > > When the bull approaches, and inseminates her, she explodes into (or perhaps: implodes into) a caleidoscopic multitude of colours absorbing his colour in the act. And the entire spectrum of colors, almost like a frozen rainbow that is falling into millions of little rainbows (a bit difficult to explain) this spectrum of colors > > is being absorbed by her, in the mating act. The cow does not only absorb the semen. To me, it appears as if the semen is a by-product. The semen is the material part of the mating process. > > > > I can only add the above to describe the situation. And when the AI-Van arrives and squirts the semen into the cow, well, let it be a 'clean' inseminator, a clean engineer. If he or she is not, beware of what is happening because the aura, the colorfield of the cow attaches itself to the inseminator. And so, it will travel > > with the person, the engineer throughout his/her life.... and onwards. > > > > That's my story, Martha. > > > > have a good evening. Ferdinand > > > > Martha Wells wrote: > > > > > Ok, Ferdinand, bridling here a bit about AI. I can see that it has value in a small farm operation, only it's the mega concerns that usually benefit by the use of it. I have my bucks drawn and occasionally use AI when I have daughters too close to their parents to go natural. (I'm an AI technician both bovine and caprine.) > > > The ranchers around us wanted to get into the heavy beef industry quickly by breeding their very small Hereford cows to huge bulls. It took AI to turn the tide of cows dying in the attempts to birth overlarge calves. (I also midwife most of this area hard deliveries too.) > > > By having a back log of bulls KNOWN to produce small birth weights, I was able to produce the outcome the ranchers are looking for, yet save the ma cows as well. > > > MANY ranchers are elderly and can't handle rough stock any more. AI is a good tool for those gents who still need to farm and ranch for their income. > > > Oh, and that 'love' aspect.. that male goat would breed the cat if he had the chance, so don't pity him that one or two breeding opportunities. > > > > > > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > > > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 09:36:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00994 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:36:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA24250; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:01:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA22713 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:47:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.79] (pm3shep3-163-158.intrepid.net [209.190.163.158]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA10575 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:48:47 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36C159B7.9F4E2E13@watating.demon.co.uk> References: <01BE5452.7BB714C0@FLYLO> <36C0FB81.7DB81258@direct.ca> <36C1077D.7B407EAF@seattle2000.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:43:26 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: Re: Horizontal scrolling Allan Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 226 Dear Alison - Martin fixed his problem by changine some settings in his software. Really, nothing has changed on this end that I know of, but, of course, listproc could have changed the way they handle things. Be that as it may, 'wrap' text is more versitle and we shouldn't complain. -Allan >Yes > >Nearly all the messages are now coming through requiring horizontal >scrolling - whats happening? > >Alison > >Martin Nyberg wrote: > >> Hi Ferdy and all, >> I have a problem. Reading email from you, or Martha and a few others is >>very difficult because I have to scroll horizontally. Your messages are >>not coming with defined margins. Can I ask what email software you use? >>I want to figure this out so I know the answer to the problem. Anyone >>else have this problem? >> Martin Nyberg >> >> Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: >> >> > Dear Martha, >> > Well, well, well. Must it all go to pot? I understand your anger. It >>ain't easy. I know. We are were we are. AI is in, the bull is out. So, >>let us look at the situation. >> > >> > Steiner (approx 1924): within 50 years you'll have such problems due >>to AI, and it started in his time, that you may have to ask yourself: >>what can be done with our cows. Illnesses, deformations, infertility and >>so forth. >> > >> > Martha, there is a lot more happening when a bull breeds a cow that >>semen being unloaded into a vagina (with a siringe.....) >> > >> > I am sure you have watched the mating dance of a bull and a cow. >>Something very spiritual and etheric is, indeed, happening. Or, have you >>ever seen how cows fight for their first place in the herd? It is not a >>bull that is leading a herd, as you know, it is the strongest cow. In >>Switzerland, in the Kanton of Appenzell, there >> > are cow fights and it is moving to see how they push and press each >>other out of the ring until the strongest Mama has been found. >> > >> > We have to find new ways, Martha. We really have to. I am sure you are >>doing a fine job. I am not attacking you. But we have to ask ourselves >>what the future will bring (if we continue via AI only) and what we are >>doing (if we disallow the mating process). We cannot remain stagnant. >> > >> > I had a horny billygoat, too. Don't think that I am of yesteryear. He >>was dangerous, aggressive and wouldn't take a no for an answer. He almost >>killed my daughter. Well, so much for the aggressive billy goat. I hope >>we got that one out of the discussion. >> > >> > Let's return to the cows and what is happening there. >> > >> > As the cow goes into heat and is 'stanging' she envelopes herself into >>an aura of 'being ready to receive'. The most fabulous colours (in her >>aura) do appear. Take your time and sit by a cow that is getting ready. >>You will see the most incredible (aura) changes. Now, Kirlian photography >>may help if you cannot see it or if you >> > do not have the time. >> > >> > When the bull approaches, and inseminates her, she explodes into (or >>perhaps: implodes into) a caleidoscopic multitude of colours absorbing >>his colour in the act. And the entire spectrum of colors, almost like a >>frozen rainbow that is falling into millions of little rainbows (a bit >>difficult to explain) this spectrum of colors >> > is being absorbed by her, in the mating act. The cow does not only >>absorb the semen. To me, it appears as if the semen is a by-product. The >>semen is the material part of the mating process. >> > >> > I can only add the above to describe the situation. And when the >>AI-Van arrives and squirts the semen into the cow, well, let it be a >>'clean' inseminator, a clean engineer. If he or she is not, beware of >>what is happening because the aura, the colorfield of the cow attaches >>itself to the inseminator. And so, it will travel >> > with the person, the engineer throughout his/her life.... and onwards. >> > >> > That's my story, Martha. >> > >> > have a good evening. Ferdinand >> > >> > Martha Wells wrote: >> > >> > > Ok, Ferdinand, bridling here a bit about AI. I can see that it has >>value in a small farm operation, only it's the mega concerns that usually >>benefit by the use of it. I have my bucks drawn and occasionally use AI >>when I have daughters too close to their parents to go natural. (I'm an >>AI technician both bovine and caprine.) >> > > The ranchers around us wanted to get into the heavy beef industry >>quickly by breeding their very small Hereford cows to huge bulls. It took >>AI to turn the tide of cows dying in the attempts to birth overlarge >>calves. (I also midwife most of this area hard deliveries too.) >> > > By having a back log of bulls KNOWN to produce small birth weights, >>I was able to produce the outcome the ranchers are looking for, yet save >>the ma cows as well. >> > > MANY ranchers are elderly and can't handle rough stock any more. AI >>is a good tool for those gents who still need to farm and ranch for their >>income. >> > > Oh, and that 'love' aspect.. that male goat would breed the cat if >>he had the chance, so don't pity him that one or two breeding >>opportunities. >> > > >> > > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html >> > > >> > > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > > >> > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef >> > > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 11:37:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00611 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:36:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11128; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:05:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.153]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10573 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.4.187]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:04:54 +0000 Message-ID: <36C1AEAF.7EB5@cwcom.net> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:07:11 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Text wrap (continued) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 227 Allen (later) - How can long lines be more versatile if the postings can't be printed out ? And if Martha's word-processing programme works only at 130 characters per line, how on earth can she print out her work from it ? I don't understand how a list processor works but, if all postings are sent out to a standard format, couldn't that be tweaked to eliminate long lines ? Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 11:37:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00620 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:37:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11083; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:05:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.153]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10536 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:03:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.4.187]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:04:52 +0000 Message-ID: <36C1AC6E.44F7@cwcom.net> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:57:34 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Text wrap Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 228 Allan and Martin - I've complained about long lines before, in postings from Malcolm. The posting can be reformatted on screen easily enough by calling up the View menu and clicking on Wrap Long Lines (in Netscape, anyway) but I find, if you want to print out the message - no way ! It just runs off the edge of the paper, even when set to print in the 'landscape' direction. The message remains in long lines when saved, and still runs off the page if printed from disc. Surely the remedy must lie with the sender rather than the receiver ? Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 11:41:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00796 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:41:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA09706; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:57:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09514 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:56:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp22.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.122]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA15534 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:56:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <004001be550d$c44d7920$7a4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Re: artificial insemination Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:55:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 229 Dear Ferdy & Martha, I'd like to jump in on this thread as I have some rather strong feelings on the whole AI thing... First of all, I was completely enchanted with your description Ferdy, of what ACTUALLY occurs during the mating process. I've not developed the "eye" to see this firsthand, but you give me something to strive for. One thing that actually shocked (no pun intended) me, when I learned of it is the procedure whereby bulls are electrically induced to produce semen. This inhumanity was VERY disturbing to me and I wondered what effect this might have on the bull, the semen & resulting offspring. Another aspect, on a completely mundane level, that was recently suggested on my local farming list, was that if companies like Monsanto can retain "rights" over any future crops their seed might produce, what implications might this hold for AI and any future heifers that a company's semen might produce? And I would also like to take exception to the implication that using AI diversifies the gene pool. I think it has the opposite effect. Semen ads now tout the benefit "outcross" on many of the newer bulls because of this very problem. There is so much "Mason/Sooner/Boomer" blood in American Jersey herds today (because of AI) that the cattle are weakened. The breed societies are actually encouraging people to crossbreed their cattle, then breed them back to Jersey or Swiss or whatever, a few more times...after a couple generations they can get purebred papers! And I have said before that the semen folks do not breed for temperament, good health, efficiency on grass, etc. (Although New Zealanders are much better about this) Here, we have created udders that the frame of a cow can barely support, completely out of proportion! This invites problems, and that's why the average life of a US dairy cow is 5 years! The problem with breeding a cow to an oversized bull or larger breed is a bad management call, period. It is bad farming that is a result of greed...(a decision probably made by a cowboy-rancher who's never had to deliver a 10-lb baby!) To portray it as the result of natural service is inaccurate. It also smacks of the whole techno-superiority complex that our society suffers from - that an AI technician is better qualified than the farmer in determining the bull of choice. Farmers have lost faith in their knowledge/experience, animals, land, and placed their faith into the hands scientists & big corporations. So Steiner was right, IMO, we've brought problems into our herds with this technology (and we appear to be attacking the next link in the food chain, with GE plants!) Technology is like fire...a marvelous tool, when used with wisdom - but in the hands of children (like our scientists/techies) downright deadly! Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 11:50:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01058 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:50:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17371; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:41:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16890 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:39:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA26282 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:43:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:43:42 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: BD NOW LIST Subject: Re: artificial insemination In-Reply-To: <004001be550d$c44d7920$7a4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 230 Dear Julie, Ferdy, AS Julie said earlier, permit me, who has had no experience in animal mating at all, to jump in. Using electricity, or is it electromagnetism, to induce semen production makes use, or perhaps, mis-use, of the Fallen Light and Fallen Chemical Ethers. As Alan Hall's book showed, these electric and electro-magnetic fields induce negative effects on systems with water, and that includes semen, which is then passed on to generations of cattle. Michael (BC) On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Julie M. wrote: > Dear Ferdy & Martha, > > I'd like to jump in on this thread as I have some rather strong feelings on > the whole AI > thing... > > First of all, I was completely enchanted with your description Ferdy, of > what ACTUALLY occurs during the mating process. I've not developed the "eye" > to see this firsthand, but you give me something to strive for. > > One thing that actually shocked (no pun intended) me, when I learned of it > is the procedure whereby bulls are electrically induced to produce semen. > This inhumanity was VERY disturbing to me and I wondered what effect this > might have on the bull, the semen & resulting offspring. > > Another aspect, on a completely mundane level, that was recently suggested > on my local farming list, was that if companies like Monsanto can retain > "rights" over any future crops their seed might produce, what implications > might this hold for AI and any future heifers that a company's semen might > produce? > > And I would also like to take exception to the implication that using AI > diversifies the gene pool. I think it has the opposite effect. Semen ads now > tout the benefit "outcross" on many of the newer bulls because of this very > problem. There is so much "Mason/Sooner/Boomer" blood in American Jersey > herds today (because of AI) that the cattle are weakened. The breed > societies are actually encouraging people to crossbreed their cattle, then > breed > them back to Jersey or Swiss or whatever, a few more times...after a couple > generations they can get purebred papers! And I have said before that the > semen folks do not breed for temperament, good health, efficiency on grass, > etc. (Although New Zealanders are much better about this) Here, we have > created > udders that the frame of a cow can barely support, completely out of > proportion! This invites problems, and that's why the average life of a US > dairy cow is 5 years! > > The problem with breeding a cow to an oversized bull or larger breed is a > bad management call, period. It is bad farming that is a result of > greed...(a decision probably made by a cowboy-rancher who's never had to > deliver a 10-lb baby!) To portray it as the result of natural service is > inaccurate. It also smacks of the whole > techno-superiority complex that our society suffers from - that an AI > technician is better qualified than the farmer in determining the bull of > choice. Farmers have lost faith in their knowledge/experience, animals, > land, and placed their faith into the hands scientists & big corporations. > > So Steiner was right, IMO, we've brought problems into our herds with this > technology (and we appear to be attacking the next link in the food chain, > with GE plants!) > > Technology is like fire...a marvelous tool, when used with wisdom - but in > the hands of children (like our scientists/techies) downright deadly! > > Julie > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 12:37:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02451 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:37:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25019; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:22:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24471 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:20:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0214.direct.ca ([204.244.83.30] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AdKN-0007Zb-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:21:31 -0800 Message-ID: <36C1BF2C.9443D2C8@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:17:32 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination References: <004001be550d$c44d7920$7a4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 231 Dear Julie, This subject really is hitting on extremely sensitive nerves and what the plants (appear to quietly) accept quietly comes to the fore here with full vengeans. But I do not mean not among those who write, but with sreaming auric apearances in the animal world IF and WHEN not properly dealt with. I say that the plant appear to quietly accept (for the time being) our interference. While the damage of GE is being played out on the etheric level (a much milder and more tolerant level one could say; but please do not misunderstand, it is as dangerous to mix into that level with a profit oriented mind) the astral level, on which the cows are being engineered on, will react with utmost revenge. While the etheric level lets us sleep at night even though with have violated its rights, the astro level will hound us from tranquilizer bottle to alcohol to drugs and so forth. It is so difficult to write about these 'secrets' (I only mean this on connection with that they cannot be seen that easily on a daily basis) for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I do not want to appear like an authority. There are no authorities on that level. It is like a person who can speak French or Chinese etc. So, please do not look at me as an authority and, please, question it all. I can and do make mistakes and when I say something that you do not understand, come back. I do not want to offend anybody. Secondly, it is a 'law' in spiritual talks that such revelations (another word that needs a short explanation: reveal, show, open, introduce etc.) ought to be made by talking and not by writing about it. However, since Steiner's lectures, and since they have been copied by shorthand (thousands of them) the law has (somewhat) changed. Yet, a lot of 'crap' (does not need explanation) is out there and, as Thomas said in an earlier post, a lot of lies are being presented as the truth. So, when you live with what I am saying here, when you keep it in your heart, make it your own by observing of what is going on. Compare, correct and in a positive way, ciritizise. I call it THE THREE C process. So, coming back to AI we must, to begin with, look at the monumental task farmers and proponents of AI were facing some (already more than) 100 years ago. Of course, it was not commercialized then and may have had different effects on cows and bulls. The problem really does start (with almost anything) when the barebone commercialism enters the field. I have a sister in Switzerland who is breeding Rottwiler dogs. For 15 years or more and I have been visiting her two to three times a year (what a traveller.....). I have the opportunity to see what is happening in the breeding process (and results) although they never use an AI service with Rottweilers. It is almost exactly what you said, Julie, with regards to cows. Rottweilers were bred for the eye only. And they had to look more and more 'beautiful' - the result was a more and more vicious dog with hip problems and health problems gallore. And today, Julie, they do not know how to fix it. Thousands of little dogs have to be put down although Rottweilers have a rather vast gene pool. I am of the opinion that we do not study life beyond life. We do not look at what a plant represents beyond the limited level on which it shows itself (roots, stem, leaves, flower, crop etc.) Universities and schools have (to a large extent) removed our ability to see the aura, to see shakras, to see life lines, to see colorful interactions between plants that manifest themselves just a bit beyond the mere physical level. And they have successfully removed the interpretation of these manifestations. It is relatively easy to see auras etc. Those who have taken drugs can get such visions for a few dollars, although the damage (after a while) to ones own psyche, may not be worth following that venue. I an, in 1999 not talking stuff that are not believable. The Hippy movement and drug use have made it clear that there are appearances out there which go beyond the mere physical. And these manifestations, these appearances follow certain laws. Every person, every bird, each and every little louse is embedded into such manifestation(s) and they can be seen. Steiner warned that if we cannot get a hold of these manifestations by the end of this Century (we are minutes before its close..... or beyond, depending how you look at it) if we cannot get hold of it, the materialists will run rings around us. He had hoped that a huge number of people on this earth will become trained, scientific etheric etc. seers who do not spread bs and run all kinds of circus' in order to attract money and stature. So, AI brings us, as a discussion group, to the very edge, to the very abyss, to either the cliff or the bridge that leads to the manifestation of the being(s) behind it. I feel honored to be permitted to talk to you here. You are a real challenge to my 'seeing'. I must demand the very best from myself. And it ain't easy. Now, Julie, I don't think I said that bulls semen were extracted electrically. What I observed was this: the smell or hormones of a cow in heat was put on an artificial cow so that the bull could jump it. The semen, then, is collected and deep-frozen right away. I agree with you that farming - true farming got into terrible disarray for years and years and people, who had not the slightest clue entered the picture of breeding. Cowboying, that's all. The mass breeding brought havoc to the cow being. Cows were not bread with some spiritual goal in mind. They were bread for weight, that's all. And they had to be able to survive a treck of many hundred miles to the slaughterhouse. Many a cow (Gene Poole) is still hanging around from that time. We have to import all kinds of breeds: Brown Swiss, Galloways, Hereford, Angus and so forth in order to improve the cows that we have here. The cow being on this continent has been put through the grinder and needs regular refreshers. And so, we are stealing semen (for and from animals) seeds (for and from plants) from other continents (India, the Amazon) in order to continue our insanity namely: quantity breeding, spiritless breeding (I mean without any considerations of what is behind a cow or plant etc.). We will run out of reserves - and so, Gene Manipulation (you do not have to go to the Andes to steal non corrupted potato crops or to the Amazon or India etc.) is the next and latest (perhaps last) step to push materialism's manifestation just one more step further. WE do not listen to the aura. The mating process is, indeed, the highest manifestation that can be imagined. I already indicated the dance of the 'rainbow' - the whirlpool of sound, light, vibrations and movement(s) some time before the actual mating process (permit me to use this word) is taking place. Many, many years ago (as a special gift) I received an Afghan carpet. That carpet's colourful weavery does reflect the manifestations around beings (high or low) during their mating game. Yours Ferdinand Julie M. wrote: > Dear Ferdy & Martha, > > I'd like to jump in on this thread as I have some rather strong feelings on > the whole AI > thing... > > First of all, I was completely enchanted with your description Ferdy, of > what ACTUALLY occurs during the mating process. I've not developed the "eye" > to see this firsthand, but you give me something to strive for. > To begin with, Julie, simply watch with eyes wide open to get the physical facts. Eventually, close your eyes and follow your third eye. And after some training, you can see the manifestations even without the very cows being there. You can call it up like a 'computer programme' by asking for it and wait..... and it will appear. I made some mistakes when reporting to the group because I was sitting at the monitor. The interference is great. later, I corrected them. > One thing that actually shocked (no pun intended) me, when I learned of it > is the procedure whereby bulls are electrically induced to produce semen. > This inhumanity was VERY disturbing to me and I wondered what effect this > might have on the bull, the semen & resulting offspring. > > Another aspect, on a completely mundane level, that was recently suggested > on my local farming list, was that if companies like Monsanto can retain > "rights" over any future crops their seed might produce, what implications > might this hold for AI and any future heifers that a company's semen might > produce? > Is being done already. Good semen is being sold for millins of dollars and 'do not copy' or give away.....! (who would at those prices) > And I would also like to take exception to the implication that using AI > diversifies the gene pool. I think it has the opposite effect. Semen ads now > tout the benefit "outcross" on many of the newer bulls because of this very > problem. There is so much "Mason/Sooner/Boomer" blood in American Jersey > herds today (because of AI) that the cattle are weakened. The breed > societies are actually encouraging people to crossbreed their cattle, then > breed > them back to Jersey or Swiss or whatever, a few more times...after a couple > generations they can get purebred papers! And I have said before that the > semen folks do not breed for temperament, good health, efficiency on grass, > etc. (Although New Zealanders are much better about this) Here, we have > created > udders that the frame of a cow can barely support, completely out of > proportion! This invites problems, and that's why the average life of a US > dairy cow is 5 years! If the AI engineers would train the auric seeing they could (and that's what I am driving at) develop a model where one could see beyond one generation of cows and say: this does not work or, we need to use different semen etc. etc. or the environment in which the cow is being inseminated is wrong OR certain stars are in a wrong place. Stars have an incredible influence on cows (especially the moon!!!). I am for bringing the old and the new together. > The problem with breeding a cow to an oversized bull or larger breed is a > bad management call, period. It is bad farming that is a result of > greed...(a decision probably made by a cowboy-rancher who's never had to > deliver a 10-lb baby!) To portray it as the result of natural service is > inaccurate. It also smacks of the whole > techno-superiority complex that our society suffers from - that an AI > technician is better qualified than the farmer in determining the bull of > choice. Farmers have lost faith in their knowledge/experience, animals, > land, and placed their faith into the hands scientists & big corporations. Well, you hit the nail on the head! Farmers have been made 'university chunkies' they must accept everything that comes from Universities. They have been forced to forgo their own instincts and deep insight(s) into nature. And as the farmer was made dependent upon the scientists, he started to lose money and his land. > So Steiner was right, IMO, we've brought problems into our herds with this > technology (and we appear to be attacking the next link in the food chain, > with GE plants!) > > Technology is like fire...a marvelous tool, when used with wisdom - but in > the hands of children (like our scientists/techies) downright deadly! > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 13:10:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA02923 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:10:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA02843; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:02:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02243 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:59:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-5-p155.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.155]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08221 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:01:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C1C671.641CCE71@seattle2000.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:48:36 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Text wrap References: <36C1AC6E.44F7@cwcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 232 Thanks Tony, I do not know why I have never encountered this before as a problem but it is... It would be nice if Ferdy and others would set their email preferences at a maximum of 80 characters per line. Many people just never delve that deeply into the intricacies of their email software. Martin Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > Allan and Martin - I've complained about long lines before, in postings > from Malcolm. The posting can be reformatted on screen easily enough by > calling up the View menu and clicking on Wrap Long Lines (in Netscape, > anyway) but I find, if you want to print out the message - no way ! It > just runs off the edge of the paper, even when set to print in the > 'landscape' direction. The message remains in long lines when saved, > and still runs off the page if printed from disc. Surely the remedy > must lie with the sender rather than the receiver ? Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 13:40:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03443 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:39:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA09225; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:31:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08788 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:29:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp198.cy-net.net [208.21.195.7]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA30593 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:45:06 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE54EC.F54C83C0@FLYLO>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:00:31 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE54EC.F54C83C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Text wrap Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:00:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE54EC.F555AB80" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 233 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE54EC.F555AB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Test: I changed 'format column' to best fit. I don't know if this will = make a difference or not. Since I see this as a fine fit, could someone = who is having problems let me know the status of this test, please? martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE54EC.F555AB80 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih8SAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAqAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGJkbm93QGVudmlyb2xp bmsub3JnAFNNVFAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5vcmcAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAA FwAAACdiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZycAAAIBCzABAAAAGgAAAFNNVFA6QkROT1dARU5WSVJP TElOSy5PUkcAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAVAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGluay5v cmcAAAAAAgH3XwEAAABHAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAYmRub3dAZW52aXJvbGlu ay5vcmcAU01UUABiZG5vd0BlbnZpcm9saW5rLm9yZwAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAA BAAAAAAAAAKpWgEEgAEADgAAAFJFOiBUZXh0IHdyYXAAcAQBBYADAA4AAADPBwIACgAMAAAAHgAD AA8BASCAAwAOAAAAzwcCAAoACwA7ABYAAwBBAQEJgAEAIQAAADdDNzgyMzRGQUZDMEQyMTFCMTEx MDBDMEYwMjk2ODIxAPQGAQOQBgBACQAAIQAAAAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAA AAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAgUi4/H1W+AR4AcAABAAAADgAAAFJFOiBUZXh0IHdyYXAA AAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvlUfPyZPI3h9wK8R0rERAMDwKWghAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAA AB4AHwwBAAAAEgAAAGZseWxvQHR4Y3liZXIuY29tAAAAAwAGELc9orcDAAcQ5AAAAB4ACBABAAAA ZQAAAFRFU1Q6SUNIQU5HRURGT1JNQVRDT0xVTU5UT0JFU1RGSVRJRE9OVEtOT1dJRlRISVNXSUxM TUFLRUFESUZGRVJFTkNFT1JOT1RTSU5DRUlTRUVUSElTQVNBRklORUZJVCxDT1UAAAAAAgEJEAEA AAAwBgAALAYAADwNAABMWkZ1xqTEQwMACgByY3BnMTI1cjIMYGMxAzABBwtgbpEOEDAzMw8WZmUP kk8B9wKkA2MCAGNoCsBzhGV0AtFwcnEyAACSKgqhbm8SUCAwAdCFAdA2D6AwNTA0FCHzAdAUEDR9 B20CgwBQA9T7Ef8TC2IT4RRQE7IY9BTQrwcTAoACkQjmOwlvMBrf+mUOMDUcCh0hHN8d6Rv0/x4S HH8gTyANH48dvxwPEGD8Mjgl2ibxJq8nuRv0J+K/Jk8qHyndKV8njytUOQ5QHy6kMAEoIzAAAoJz dHnqbAeQaAngdAAAE1AD8FBkY3RsCrFcMlhhmGRqdTFwBRBnaAVCOxYyDAFjCcAyYAMwc258ZXgX MAewBbAAwAJzc7EAUHNiMhRQMWBhE/D0XGsJ4HALkDI/MqMIYOsykAuAZTGgdjlgAUAzm78MMDRk KAA3QASgC4BnJ/HpNOZiYRcQZAIgNaA1Rucx0DOQO5EgMTEzDlA2n/83rzi/AFE5/ACgNG48fz2G /zEkD8A+jz+fQK8OUDnvQw/bRB89szMCghMQYzZgS6GTM5A9sHRpOZAgRAEQqGF1bAVAUArAYQnA 4GFwaCBGAiE2JCVA6GZpLQ+QOAFAOTBQM+tHDzKjYgsgcglQUlIWoNlSUnc0JUEXAHAB0E1yfzO/ Sp9Lpk/QTpAFEAIwLUNPMANhOiBUb1ewUyh1YmoFkHRXsERh6HRlOjYkNk//UQ9SH/9TL1Q5McA9 ow4hS6E6tg5Qm1VvVn5SOYEXASBIPZH7BJA2JDdZb1p/W49cnTkPL12/D5BpcAjQYgqwdDj/SfoP VEYQX79gxmoAYdALULx5L09AXLALEWJFczYk/ygAYz9kT2VfXK9UT2tfbG/vbXVX0ld0WKk5b78z PwMwHWmzOXOfdK96oERvY/51B4ACMAXQTwBM1nKkTbVjDGAJUGNmMnuoTVFI7HlwBJBncWsaAXjS eDD3eHBxUQGAblgwAGAJ8E2g730AAgE14F5SZQDwfQAxgEuAYA5QdgiQd2sLgGTPa0CDwgTwB0Bl OSVADgDvcSI9goUVAhBvBUIXIRLyDVjAbQtRWMAgQzpc6lxXAG9O4W1PMAMQB5BNh8BNDeADYHNv AYAgrk8BIA3ggxBciXZFAMD1AxAuS3B0gPAXEHhwNSHtZ3J4AUCCIW4x0BrwixQ9TjRjAyAS8wCA BZBsdv9BoUbQDnA14I2iAZAAII4y/4QRfUEBwY2hFuAPcAAARtDzDNABkCAuGhKNmA5QjlL/TnB4 wI7Pj9+Q7w/ARtAFgbeSj5OflK9sa0BG0GyST/uXD5gVKZEchQGV/5rfmBP4YiAoApGb743jWVCZ n/+eX59voH+OEGMQocKOn6Mv/6Q/kRwoAKHPp0+oX6lvjhD/eACmT6vfrO+t9Ar5AzB4LzN5P3rN e1QHkFhxIEnOIBbRD3AJgCAngpJYsAe3MAbwfSBuJyB0b5QgYrbBIG7QdC63EdVLcScFQGuzkSAG kLiw6mgEACAD8GwDIADARqBeIJhgPbABIIxRbomwIPcFsRNQuWFTC4C8IbcgFxB/E4C6k0tAu3Fu 0DVguTIsf7gxTmA1IIkgB4ACIBOAd35ouNC6sRbgg8A90Rdwb/8CYIcgBCAxoAVAB4C6BLqQ+xOA r8F0tSC8QLp1WMAxcO++sAtQPZAXED8KhQqFsrT3s3+0jwVAewDAACAW4K1g/QzQKcSwAfEIkL8A AgC/AHs9sAAgeRLyyMELgLkRewFiQFlQRVJMSU4GSz1wAkBwOi8vd73LMC63gH0ATcEHkC4FoNxt L2JRACAPUWRtUMhyLHMvHqAUIC+wUnguXbWAbQMgApAS8mRYsGEfyGM6kQuAWUAOkADQyQDqefm6 zhGMggAAqgBLqQsCAFXRAAPRAeDQDXTRAWgGANJw0nBwADoALwXTQXfTgy4AZwBlwABvAGMAadLB 1JBd1DBz0+HUcNRQbdNBSFHUIWEActLBbNYBbvQAZNNBRtTD1nDW0NUQ9dNQNdfhMNfh01DUkNay /dQweNPh0rLVkNZw0QAaEP8Ckr8AFwBOcQjBC/J/FcrPX8vfzO/N9Nnyw+190QEAAeCwAwAQEAAA AAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMCBYphYfVb4BQAAIMCBYphYfVb4BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAE AAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAA AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAA AAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAOvD ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE54EC.F555AB80-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 14:19:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA04463 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:19:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA17714; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:11:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17381 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-3-p203.wolfenet.com [206.159.28.203]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14372 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:11:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C1D6F4.1DDFF38F@seattle2000.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:59:09 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: NW BD Seminar (was Re: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99) References: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C08247.FAA09417@seattle2000.com> <36C09F88.3258FEF7@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 234 Hello Ferdy and all, Regarding a BD Seminar in the NW... here are my current thoughts.... The time is problematic, since we are now entering our busiest time of the season! We may want to target winter 2000! (A short 9-10 months away). Unless we could manage something before April. I am not certain now much particaption we could muster in just a month or so of preparation and promotion. What do others think of the time issue? Being a local newspaper contributor on agricultural issues with a bi-montly column,a Tilth member, a 4 year CSA grower, and a 20 year marketing veteran, I could arrange and promote such a workshop to good effect I believe. My first take on it would be to invite local NW presenters (qualifications approved and researched) to Vashon Island. Vashon Island is the Seattle area's last agricultural holdout and with eight CSA's, the location of the States largest concentration per capita of CSA Growers. This qualifies Vashon as a "Showcase Community", and a leader in the CSA movement, in my opinion. This might be a one or two day conference. One day limits content but also limits expenses (no lodging required). Let's continue this dialogue privately if you would like since it concerns the NW area of the USA only. My email address is greenman@wolfenet.com. Phone (206)595-3158 Martin Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Martin, I'll be glad to be part of it. Regards Ferdinand > > Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > Great! But Sure Would be Nice to have such a conference in the Northwestern > > US... What would it cost to get some instructors out here? Anyone want to > > volunteer to help me organize it? > > > > Martin Nyberg > > GreenMan Farm CSA > > Vashon WA, USA > > > > "Julie M." wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone... > > > > > > Just wanted to remind all of you that our own Hugh Lovel will be giving > > > a 5-hour seminar on Biodynamics at the Upper Midwest Organic > > > Farming Conference at Sinsinawa Mound (a fab place, considered sacred by the > > > Native Americans, and now a happening place, run by retired nuns who have > > > extensive organic gardens, vineyards and even a dairy herd! See this place > > > at http://www.sinsinawa.org/smc.htm ) > > > > > > Hugh will be speaking with Clair Hall of Releaf, Inc., who's an amazing > > > biodynamic farmer from Minnesota. (Clair is a sweet BD soul, all her gardens > > > are named after her favorite authors, she can make rain, and she makes an > > > outstanding "Glad Heart" tea, among other things!) > > > > > > I know you're thinking this seminar should cost at least $150, but in fact, > > > it is a steal at a mere $45...Yup - that comes out to about $9/hr! And the > > > March 4th seminar is rapidly approaching, so check out the website for the > > > UMOFC at http://agile.net/UMOFC/ > > > > > > Here's the seminar description: > > > > > > "Biodynamics is Agriculture in Motion. Growing food is really about life, > > > and life forces are always moving, always dynamic. These forces play a > > > critical role in the health and growth of plants, animals, and people. Hugh > > > Lovel, founder of Union Ag Institute in Blairsville, Georgia and Clair Hall, > > > founder of Releaf, Inc. in Wabasha, MN, will bring you the basics of > > > biodynamics. Explore the cosmos in a microcosm; discuss the flows of free > > > ether and how it may become bound ether on your farm. Learn how we can work > > > with the life forces to increase the vitality of our farms and our spirits." > > > > > > Hope to see you there! > > > > > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 14:22:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA04521 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:22:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA18317; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:14:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17839 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:12:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Af5A-0001wZ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:13:57 -0800 Message-ID: <36C1D986.A47CAEFA@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:09:59 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 235 Dear Michael, Julie may have info where electricity is being used. I observed hormones being applied. But, you are right, if electricity was used then, the semen will be further damaged. Reards Ferdinand Michael Roboz wrote: > Dear Julie, Ferdy, > > AS Julie said earlier, permit me, who has had no experience in animal > mating at all, to jump in. > Using electricity, or is it electromagnetism, to induce semen production > makes use, or perhaps, mis-use, of the Fallen Light and Fallen Chemical > Ethers. As Alan Hall's book showed, these electric and electro-magnetic > fields induce negative effects on systems with water, and that includes > semen, which is then passed on to generations of cattle. > Michael (BC) > > On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Julie M. wrote: > > > Dear Ferdy & Martha, > > > > I'd like to jump in on this thread as I have some rather strong feelings on > > the whole AI > > thing... > > > > First of all, I was completely enchanted with your description Ferdy, of > > what ACTUALLY occurs during the mating process. I've not developed the "eye" > > to see this firsthand, but you give me something to strive for. > > > > One thing that actually shocked (no pun intended) me, when I learned of it > > is the procedure whereby bulls are electrically induced to produce semen. > > This inhumanity was VERY disturbing to me and I wondered what effect this > > might have on the bull, the semen & resulting offspring. > > > > Another aspect, on a completely mundane level, that was recently suggested > > on my local farming list, was that if companies like Monsanto can retain > > "rights" over any future crops their seed might produce, what implications > > might this hold for AI and any future heifers that a company's semen might > > produce? > > > > And I would also like to take exception to the implication that using AI > > diversifies the gene pool. I think it has the opposite effect. Semen ads now > > tout the benefit "outcross" on many of the newer bulls because of this very > > problem. There is so much "Mason/Sooner/Boomer" blood in American Jersey > > herds today (because of AI) that the cattle are weakened. The breed > > societies are actually encouraging people to crossbreed their cattle, then > > breed > > them back to Jersey or Swiss or whatever, a few more times...after a couple > > generations they can get purebred papers! And I have said before that the > > semen folks do not breed for temperament, good health, efficiency on grass, > > etc. (Although New Zealanders are much better about this) Here, we have > > created > > udders that the frame of a cow can barely support, completely out of > > proportion! This invites problems, and that's why the average life of a US > > dairy cow is 5 years! > > > > The problem with breeding a cow to an oversized bull or larger breed is a > > bad management call, period. It is bad farming that is a result of > > greed...(a decision probably made by a cowboy-rancher who's never had to > > deliver a 10-lb baby!) To portray it as the result of natural service is > > inaccurate. It also smacks of the whole > > techno-superiority complex that our society suffers from - that an AI > > technician is better qualified than the farmer in determining the bull of > > choice. Farmers have lost faith in their knowledge/experience, animals, > > land, and placed their faith into the hands scientists & big corporations. > > > > So Steiner was right, IMO, we've brought problems into our herds with this > > technology (and we appear to be attacking the next link in the food chain, > > with GE plants!) > > > > Technology is like fire...a marvelous tool, when used with wisdom - but in > > the hands of children (like our scientists/techies) downright deadly! > > > > Julie > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 15:00:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA05378 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:00:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25936; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:52:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25668 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:50:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AfgD-0000L6-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:52:13 -0800 Message-ID: <36C1E267.7D65E1AD@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:47:51 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: NW BD Seminar (was Re: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99) References: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C08247.FAA09417@seattle2000.com> <36C09F88.3258FEF7@direct.ca> <36C1D6F4.1DDFF38F@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 236 Dear Martin, If we want this conference to be a success, let us not hasten it. The year 2000 sound o.k. with me. I, personally, need at least 6 months forewarning i.e. a set date. And in the meantime, a devoted core group has to be found willing to carry the ball close or within the area where the conference is going to take place. Best regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Hello Ferdy and all, > > Regarding a BD Seminar in the NW... here are my current thoughts.... > > The time is problematic, since we are now entering our busiest time of the season! > We may want to target winter 2000! (A short 9-10 months away). Unless we could > manage something before April. I am not certain now much particaption we could > muster in just a month or so of preparation and promotion. What do others think of > the time issue? > > Being a local newspaper contributor on agricultural issues with a bi-montly > column,a Tilth member, a 4 year CSA grower, and a 20 year marketing veteran, I > could arrange and promote such a workshop to good effect I believe. My first take > on it would be to invite local NW presenters (qualifications approved and > researched) to Vashon Island. Vashon Island is the Seattle area's last agricultural > holdout and with eight CSA's, the location of the States largest concentration per > capita of CSA Growers. This qualifies Vashon as a "Showcase Community", and a > leader in the CSA movement, in my opinion. This might be a one or two day > conference. One day limits content but also limits expenses (no lodging required). > > Let's continue this dialogue privately if you would like since it concerns the NW > area of the USA only. My email address is greenman@wolfenet.com. Phone > (206)595-3158 > > Martin > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Martin, I'll be glad to be part of it. Regards Ferdinand > > > > Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > > > Great! But Sure Would be Nice to have such a conference in the Northwestern > > > US... What would it cost to get some instructors out here? Anyone want to > > > volunteer to help me organize it? > > > > > > Martin Nyberg > > > GreenMan Farm CSA > > > Vashon WA, USA > > > > > > "Julie M." wrote: > > > > > > > Hi everyone... > > > > > > > > Just wanted to remind all of you that our own Hugh Lovel will be giving > > > > a 5-hour seminar on Biodynamics at the Upper Midwest Organic > > > > Farming Conference at Sinsinawa Mound (a fab place, considered sacred by the > > > > Native Americans, and now a happening place, run by retired nuns who have > > > > extensive organic gardens, vineyards and even a dairy herd! See this place > > > > at http://www.sinsinawa.org/smc.htm ) > > > > > > > > Hugh will be speaking with Clair Hall of Releaf, Inc., who's an amazing > > > > biodynamic farmer from Minnesota. (Clair is a sweet BD soul, all her gardens > > > > are named after her favorite authors, she can make rain, and she makes an > > > > outstanding "Glad Heart" tea, among other things!) > > > > > > > > I know you're thinking this seminar should cost at least $150, but in fact, > > > > it is a steal at a mere $45...Yup - that comes out to about $9/hr! And the > > > > March 4th seminar is rapidly approaching, so check out the website for the > > > > UMOFC at http://agile.net/UMOFC/ > > > > > > > > Here's the seminar description: > > > > > > > > "Biodynamics is Agriculture in Motion. Growing food is really about life, > > > > and life forces are always moving, always dynamic. These forces play a > > > > critical role in the health and growth of plants, animals, and people. Hugh > > > > Lovel, founder of Union Ag Institute in Blairsville, Georgia and Clair Hall, > > > > founder of Releaf, Inc. in Wabasha, MN, will bring you the basics of > > > > biodynamics. Explore the cosmos in a microcosm; discuss the flows of free > > > > ether and how it may become bound ether on your farm. Learn how we can work > > > > with the life forces to increase the vitality of our farms and our spirits." > > > > > > > > Hope to see you there! > > > > > > > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 15:42:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA06338 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:42:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA21752; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:30:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21371 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:29:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AfLG-0004fb-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:30:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36C1DD69.CFE2C7C1@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:26:33 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Text wrap References: <36C1AC6E.44F7@cwcom.net> <36C1C671.641CCE71@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 237 Dear Martin, I have read and gone through my entire program but cannot find a switch to arrange an 80 character per line arrangement. I will have to discuss it with my son as soon as he calls me. Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Thanks Tony, > I do not know why I have never encountered this before as a problem but it > is... It would be nice if Ferdy and others would set their email > preferences at a maximum of 80 characters per line. Many people just never > delve that deeply into the intricacies of their email software. > Martin > > Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > > > Allan and Martin - I've complained about long lines before, in postings > > from Malcolm. The posting can be reformatted on screen easily enough by > > calling up the View menu and clicking on Wrap Long Lines (in Netscape, > > anyway) but I find, if you want to print out the message - no way ! It > > just runs off the edge of the paper, even when set to print in the > > 'landscape' direction. The message remains in long lines when saved, > > and still runs off the page if printed from disc. Surely the remedy > > must lie with the sender rather than the receiver ? Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 15:52:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA06890 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:52:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA04780; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:43:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA04662 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:43:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp2.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.102]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA04587 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:43:22 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000201be5535$e18a08a0$664b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: artificial insemination (WARNING: graphic content) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:38:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 238 Dear Ferdy & Michael, Although I have visited the local bull station, I didn't ask to see the semen collecting process used at that facility (they'd probably just think I was perverted). I did read about this procedure however, and Martha has confirmed to me that, yes, this method was suggested to her for use with one of her goats, so apparently it is in use. The following is direct from my UW Dairy Science Textbook (1993) which I refer to less & less all the time. It lists 4 recognized methods of semen collection: 1-) artificial vagina, 2-) electro-ejaculator or electrical stimulation (a necessity for crippled bulls that are unable to mount), 3-) massaging the accessory genital organs (seminal vesicles & ampulla) per rectum and, 4-) collecting the semen from the vagina that has just been bred by natural service. Under the Electrical Stimulation heading: " This method first found limited use with rams. It has since been adapted to, and widely used in, collecting semen from bulls that will not or cannot mount jump animals or that lack in libido. It is also useful on farms where there are no facilities for normal semen collection and in cases where time does not permit training bulls to artificial vaginas. Electro-ejaculator apparatuses are available commercially. The simplest equipment introduces a weak alternating current to the sacral and pelvic nerve via electordes placed in the rectum on a probe or by hand. For bulls, a single electrode, delivering 5 to 30 volts is placed in the rectum then a series of stimulations is applied until erection and ejaculation occur. " The other methods are also described, in detail, and ironically, the most natural one of the bunch, collection of semen from the just-bred cow, is listed as the most "dangerous" considering the "contamination" that occurs from the cow, urine, etc. Additionally, a chart is offered showing the various "extenders" milk, egg, salt solution, etc. and each one contains anti-biotics!! Now I'm really nuts about this! The audacity of science is unbelievable! They say that, not only is bovine vibriosis controlled, but enhanced keeping quality of semen, and increased conception rates are all attributes of antibiotic treatment of semen (penicillin & streptomycin, and sufanilamide) Where are the organic standards people? Disgusted in dairyland, Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 16:05:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07130 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:05:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06931; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06665 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:54:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ihug.co.nz (p21-max40.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.228.213]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14325 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:56:06 +1300 Message-ID: <36C1F144.B955E4D5@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:51:16 +1300 From: I & K Buckingham Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination References: <004001be550d$c44d7920$7a4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C1BF2C.9443D2C8@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 239 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > I am for bringing the old and the new together. As an intensive BD dairy farmer I think our dear friend from Canada has hit the nail on the head. With a dairy herd that has had more than 30 years of AI breeding I have yet to see the big negative aspects. But then the farm is run from a holistic perspective and we have had animal temperament and health criteria as our main breeding policies for many years. No AI is not ideal but when one sees a 15 year old cow "skip" along like a young calf we must be creating some harmonious relationship. Ferdy, nice to have you back to keep us on the straight and narrow :>) Regards Ian Buckingham Maungatawhiri New Zealand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 16:20:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07396 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:20:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09991; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:11:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09680 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:09:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp192.cy-net.net [208.21.195.1]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA19545 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:24:57 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5502.F379E4A0@FLYLO>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:37:57 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5502.F379E4A0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: ai (WARNING: graphic content) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:37:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE5502.F38AAD80" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 240 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5502.F38AAD80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jumping back into the fray but weakening by the moment..... What Julie fails to mention: I contacted a bull station and asked about = procedures. They said they do not use an electro-ejaculator on bulls, = but would use it on bucks. "It produces a mild tingle that is no harm to = the animal."=20 I chose to put it to my face to decide if it is a mild tingle. Not too = bad (and I'm very sensitive to electric jolts), but I thought it was = more than a tingle so I vetoed that collection site for my bucks. = Besides, the descriptions of their other procedures for buck collection = seemed most unnatural. And, to top it off, the facility was unsure of = how to process the paperwork and I wasn't about to turn over records or = animal history to an office that might abuse it. Normally a doe in heat is used as a lure, and the mounting is by natural = service. The doe is allowed to mate after the collection process has = taken place. No extenders or antibiotics are used in the process to my = knowledge. But, this is at individual farmsteads by a custom collector, = not by a 'static facility'. the semen quality is not diluted as it's = for the owner's animal use and not normally for wide 'commercial = application'.=20 I do tend to agree that if one such as Novartis or other big concerns = began inroads into 'my' area of expertise, I certainly would be one of = the first to go charging at them, ai guns a-blazing. But, overall, I = still stand behind my initial comments, this has been a good tool in the = preservation of endangered breeds. There are humane methods and inhumane = procedures with everything we do. It's up to ourselves to determine = which is for us. =20 AND, the NOSB can barely determine what will be the national = standardization for vegetable production, they're heartily hoping no one = notices the livestock industry. 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=_NextPart_000_01BE5502.F38AAD80-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 16:44:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07813 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:44:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA13040; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:35:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd115.hotmail.com [207.82.252.179]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA12981 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:33:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 222 invoked by uid 0); 10 Feb 1999 21:28:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19990210212809.220.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:28:09 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Internet Message Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:28:09 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 241 Woh Ferdy, Its hard, but not impossible to believe. It sounds like they just need a bit of education. There are much more humane methods. There is a substance placed into the water to temporarily knock the female out. At that point, just by using gentle pressure, her eggs are removed. A similiar method is used to extract the males semen. I learned the methods by studying rainbow trout, and they are members of the salmaniod family. What these folks are doing is pure barbary. A fellow tried to sell me medicated feed today. Said it was an antibiotic called tetracycline. Tetracyline was experimental during the Viet Nam era. I didn't think it was even being used today. Whats worse there is no redeming value in giving it to salmanoids either. The only redeeming value...it fattens the feed dealers wallet. By the way, I raise trout closely and we've found no need to use medicated feeds. Amen, Amen and Amen. But please follow that awareness up with action. For it is the meditating soul that springs the body into action. LUCIA SARADOFF wrote: > Hi Ferdinand: was thinking of the state of salmon in States, which > they say are dying, not breeding as they once did. how to reverse > these things, so so sad, wasteful, an insult to the wisdom and power > that created all of it, us, including those wonderful creatures you > have seen feeding on them as they were supposed to. Have you > actually witnessed bears > salmon fishing? L Lucia, The reason they aren't breeding is due to the state of the water and environment. The salmaniods need high oxygen through the motion of falling water. The young fry, the fingerling, and the developing embryo need cool water with high amounts of oxygen. It is possible to accomplish this through the waters motion over stones. The trout have specific requirements for hatchlings in terms of both temperature and oxygen. If these things don't occur, the embryo will rot. Another variable that must be taken into accout with all this is height above sea level. In high mountain areas, the air is much thinner. This places a greater need for higher volumes of water falling from greater heights in order to induce the proper amount of oxygen in the water. It seems to me that if some are saying the salmon are dying that there is a culprit somewhere destroying its' environment. I remember reading about the plans in that neck of the woods to damn the rivers and streams for hydro-electric power facilities for development. Theres' where the problem is - Gov't solutions. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 16:49:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07896 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:49:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA13814; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:41:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd104.hotmail.com [207.82.252.168]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA13745 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:40:52 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9120 invoked by uid 0); 10 Feb 1999 21:41:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19990210214152.9119.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:41:52 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Internet Message Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:41:52 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 242 Oh, by the way, If the methods of semen and egg extraction for the salmoniods are needed, feel free to ask. I think I have copies on the procedure. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 16:58:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08082 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:58:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA14863; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:50:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14786 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:49:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from laquerencia@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D25KUQG9; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:50:30 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:51:23 -0600 Subject: Re: artificial insemination Message-ID: <19990210.155123.15094.0.LaQuerencia@juno.com> References: <004001be550d$c44d7920$7a4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C1BF2C.9443D2C8@direct.ca> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7,9,11,13,15-17,29-30,32-38 From: Deborah M Byron Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 243 Ferdinand wrote: : >The mating process is, indeed, the highest manifestation that can be >imagined. I>already indicated the dance of the 'rainbow' - the whirlpool of sound, >light,>vibrations and movement(s) some time before the actual mating process >(permit me>to use this word) is taking place. Many, many years ago (as a special >gift) I>received an Afghan carpet. That carpet's colourful weavery does >reflect the>manifestations around beings (high or low) during their mating game. I would appreciate some help tracking down a remark by Rudolf Steiner. I believe he indicated that one day people would discover that the role of the father in the conception of his children is much more important than is currently thought. As Ferdinand has mentioned in relation to animals, the male is not merely the donor of a physical substance (semen) but contributes subtle energies vital to the health of the developing child. And I believe he suggested that there are definite negative effects on fetal development if a father is inebriated at the moment of conception. I found this so interesting because the prevailing opinion today seems to be that only the condition of the mother, in terms of *her* consumption of toxic substances, has real influence on prenatal development. Thank you, Ferdinand and Julie, for your insights into this whole subject of AI. It seems very important that we try to understand this. Warm regards, Deborah Byron ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 17:20:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08442 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:20:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA17685; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:11:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17330 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:08:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-4-p105.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.105]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29401 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C200D5.5903646D@seattle2000.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:57:50 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: NW BD Seminar (was Re: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99) References: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C08247.FAA09417@seattle2000.com> <36C09F88.3258FEF7@direct.ca> <36C1D6F4.1DDFF38F@seattle2000.com> <36C1E267.7D65E1AD@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 244 I tend to agree that 2000 is a good time. But at the same time, my gut tells me if we wanted to we could do it by April... If we had such resolve.... If we do plan for 1 year of so hence, (2000), what do you think of the rest of the proposal? ie., on Vashon Island... CSA showcase community of the NW, possible speakers, duration of conference, price to the public, discounts for members.. etc... Martin Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Dear Martin, > If we want this conference to be a success, let us not hasten it. The year 2000 sound > o.k. with me. I, personally, need at least 6 months forewarning i.e. a set date. And > in the meantime, a devoted core group has to be found willing to carry the ball close > or within the area where the conference is going to take place. Best regards Ferdinand > > Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > Hello Ferdy and all, > > > > Regarding a BD Seminar in the NW... here are my current thoughts.... > > > > The time is problematic, since we are now entering our busiest time of the season! > > We may want to target winter 2000! (A short 9-10 months away). Unless we could > > manage something before April. I am not certain now much particaption we could > > muster in just a month or so of preparation and promotion. What do others think of > > the time issue? > > > > Being a local newspaper contributor on agricultural issues with a bi-montly > > column,a Tilth member, a 4 year CSA grower, and a 20 year marketing veteran, I > > could arrange and promote such a workshop to good effect I believe. My first take > > on it would be to invite local NW presenters (qualifications approved and > > researched) to Vashon Island. Vashon Island is the Seattle area's last agricultural > > holdout and with eight CSA's, the location of the States largest concentration per > > capita of CSA Growers. This qualifies Vashon as a "Showcase Community", and a > > leader in the CSA movement, in my opinion. This might be a one or two day > > conference. One day limits content but also limits expenses (no lodging required). > > > > Let's continue this dialogue privately if you would like since it concerns the NW > > area of the USA only. My email address is greenman@wolfenet.com. Phone > > (206)595-3158 > > > > Martin > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > Martin, I'll be glad to be part of it. Regards Ferdinand > > > > > > Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > > > > > Great! But Sure Would be Nice to have such a conference in the Northwestern > > > > US... What would it cost to get some instructors out here? Anyone want to > > > > volunteer to help me organize it? > > > > > > > > Martin Nyberg > > > > GreenMan Farm CSA > > > > Vashon WA, USA > > > > > > > > "Julie M." wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone... > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to remind all of you that our own Hugh Lovel will be giving > > > > > a 5-hour seminar on Biodynamics at the Upper Midwest Organic > > > > > Farming Conference at Sinsinawa Mound (a fab place, considered sacred by the > > > > > Native Americans, and now a happening place, run by retired nuns who have > > > > > extensive organic gardens, vineyards and even a dairy herd! See this place > > > > > at http://www.sinsinawa.org/smc.htm ) > > > > > > > > > > Hugh will be speaking with Clair Hall of Releaf, Inc., who's an amazing > > > > > biodynamic farmer from Minnesota. (Clair is a sweet BD soul, all her gardens > > > > > are named after her favorite authors, she can make rain, and she makes an > > > > > outstanding "Glad Heart" tea, among other things!) > > > > > > > > > > I know you're thinking this seminar should cost at least $150, but in fact, > > > > > it is a steal at a mere $45...Yup - that comes out to about $9/hr! And the > > > > > March 4th seminar is rapidly approaching, so check out the website for the > > > > > UMOFC at http://agile.net/UMOFC/ > > > > > > > > > > Here's the seminar description: > > > > > > > > > > "Biodynamics is Agriculture in Motion. Growing food is really about life, > > > > > and life forces are always moving, always dynamic. These forces play a > > > > > critical role in the health and growth of plants, animals, and people. Hugh > > > > > Lovel, founder of Union Ag Institute in Blairsville, Georgia and Clair Hall, > > > > > founder of Releaf, Inc. in Wabasha, MN, will bring you the basics of > > > > > biodynamics. Explore the cosmos in a microcosm; discuss the flows of free > > > > > ether and how it may become bound ether on your farm. Learn how we can work > > > > > with the life forces to increase the vitality of our farms and our spirits." > > > > > > > > > > Hope to see you there! > > > > > > > > > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 17:44:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09002 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:44:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA21533; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:34:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA21416 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:34:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp192.cy-net.net [208.21.195.1]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA32523 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:49:57 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE550E.8CC24E80@FLYLO>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:00:59 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE550E.8CC24E80@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: organic dairying comment Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:00:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id RAA21419 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 245 Organic Gardening magazine came today. One area (Healthy Eating) boasts a new organic gourmet cheese company. To test the waters, finding out about AI practices in organic facilities, give them a call: Boxtree Trading Group (212) 496-5600. Their boast is" certified organic milk from cows that have grazed on pesticide free pastures, have been given organic feed, and have not been treated with hormones or antibiotics." The last being the kicker that has been discussed here today. I'm now curious if this import company knows the fertilization methods of these cows, and their comments of the organic status if ai'ed. Also, Kent Whealy was given the back page to talk about SSE, and a nice article on organic landscaping by another favorite, Rosalind Creasey. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 17:53:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09171 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:53:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA23130; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:44:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA22705 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:42:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.8]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:52:51 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:43:54 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: Request for sponsors for NYC Rally (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 246 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 13:45:30 -0600 (CST) From: "Grow Power (Hope Finkelstein)" To: Community Food Security Coalition Subject: Request for sponsors for NYC Rally PLEASE SEND TO KINDRED SPIRITS EVERYWHERE... REQUEST FOR CO-SPONSORS Standing Our Ground: A Grassroots Conference and Solidarity Rally to support New York City's Community Gardens April 9 and 10, 1999 NYC times and location TBA The New York Community Gardens Coalition (NYCCGC), the NYC Environmental Justice Alliance (NYCEJA), the Sierra Club Community Gardens Committee of NYC, and Growing Power based in Madison, WI are sponsoring a conference and rally to support community gardens in NYC and to cultivate the growing national solidarity movement related to community gardens and related issues. We are writing to invite your organization to participate in this two day event as co-sponsors. Community garden and related groups across the nation are sharing the crisi facing NYC gardens. Underlying issues of food security, social welfare, economic and environmental justice have the potential to bring together a coalition of activists that could develop a groundswell that will make a difference in our local communities. The Grassroots Conference on Friday, April 9th will feature reports and workshops on community gardening in other cities, strategies for long term preservation, and mobilizing political support for urban greening/agricultural initiatives. The Solidarity Rally on Saturday, April 10th will bring national attention to the imminent sale of over 125 NYC gardens and the impact this will have on both the park-starved neighborhoods in NYC and the broader community gardens movement. The issues will be directly linked to the Clinton Administration's recently announced Land Legacy Initiative and Livability Agenda which seek to combat "sprawl." In fact, Vice President Al Gore has been invited to be one of the keynote speakers at the event (keep your fingers crossed for his acceptance). Making the cities more livable by providing more healthy green space must be a key component of federal, state and local anti sprawl strategies. It is imperative that we seize this opportunity to link these environmental issues with other injustices that plague our local communities. As you can see, this is a large project which will require the support and assistance of all who are concerned about the fate NYC's gardens and the movement as a whole. TIME IS RUNNING OUT. We need to get attention before the demolution truck arrive. We hope you will join us a Co-Sponsor of the event with a pledge of $100.00 or whatever your organziation can contribute. If your organization can help bring people to the event, help with planning, publicity, outreach or other tasks please contact us. Let's make this event a successful one by joining forces and keeping our eyes on the prize. We look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible to work together to help preserve community gardens and making these important connections. Terri Drach NYCCGC and CONTACT TO ADD YOUR ORG AS CO-SPONSOR Leslie Lowe NYCEJA CONTACT TO HELP PLAN CONFERENCE Hope Finkelstein Growing Power CONTACT AFTER 3/5/99 TO HELP WITH NATIONAL OUTREACH Lesley Heathcote and Andrew Sierra Club Gardens Committee of NYC From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 18:23:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10494 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:23:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA27807; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:14:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA27641 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:13:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AiqT-0004Iw-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:15:01 -0800 Message-ID: <36C211C9.C33019BA@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:10:01 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: NW BD Seminar (was Re: BD seminar - UMOFC 3/99) References: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C08247.FAA09417@seattle2000.com> <36C09F88.3258FEF7@direct.ca> <36C1D6F4.1DDFF38F@seattle2000.com> <36C1E267.7D65E1AD@direct.ca> <36C200D5.5903646D@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 247 Dear Martin, just came back from riding. Have to get out with the horses at times. Trying to develop a device to pull loads, simple, year round. Will get a small buggy to get them started in. Perhaps you may want to run a small seminar on Vashon Island iviting the people there and if I have time I will come. This may be a good tester to see what is needed for a larger seminar running Friday afternoon, Saturday & Sundy. Mind you, I have given many of those and attended as many, too. But every locale is different and the best seminars are run in areas where someone is successfully producing vegetables or has his farm etc. I frown upon those seminars which are held in large hotels, lakeside resorts where he have to appear in monkey suits and such stuff just to get past the porter. The last BD Conference was held in such a place and it was (at least for me) difficult to get real. My wife almost freaked out although she is the person who, when hotels are mentioned, loves to look neat and tidy - but she found it very un-BD. So, first, let us dream up some general 'mission statement' and, perhaps BDNOW lets us discuss this among the multitude so that we may attract others in the BC, Washington State, Oregon and adjacent States, too. Lets see. Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > I tend to agree that 2000 is a good time. But at the same time, my gut tells me if we > wanted to we could do it by April... If we had such resolve.... If we do plan for 1 > year of so hence, (2000), what do you think of the rest of the proposal? ie., on Vashon > Island... CSA showcase community of the NW, possible speakers, duration of conference, > price to the public, discounts for members.. etc... > Martin > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Dear Martin, > > If we want this conference to be a success, let us not hasten it. The year 2000 sound > > o.k. with me. I, personally, need at least 6 months forewarning i.e. a set date. And > > in the meantime, a devoted core group has to be found willing to carry the ball close > > or within the area where the conference is going to take place. Best regards Ferdinand > > > > Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > > > Hello Ferdy and all, > > > > > > Regarding a BD Seminar in the NW... here are my current thoughts.... > > > > > > The time is problematic, since we are now entering our busiest time of the season! > > > We may want to target winter 2000! (A short 9-10 months away). Unless we could > > > manage something before April. I am not certain now much particaption we could > > > muster in just a month or so of preparation and promotion. What do others think of > > > the time issue? > > > > > > Being a local newspaper contributor on agricultural issues with a bi-montly > > > column,a Tilth member, a 4 year CSA grower, and a 20 year marketing veteran, I > > > could arrange and promote such a workshop to good effect I believe. My first take > > > on it would be to invite local NW presenters (qualifications approved and > > > researched) to Vashon Island. Vashon Island is the Seattle area's last agricultural > > > holdout and with eight CSA's, the location of the States largest concentration per > > > capita of CSA Growers. This qualifies Vashon as a "Showcase Community", and a > > > leader in the CSA movement, in my opinion. This might be a one or two day > > > conference. One day limits content but also limits expenses (no lodging required). > > > > > > Let's continue this dialogue privately if you would like since it concerns the NW > > > area of the USA only. My email address is greenman@wolfenet.com. Phone > > > (206)595-3158 > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > > Martin, I'll be glad to be part of it. Regards Ferdinand > > > > > > > > Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > > > > > > > Great! But Sure Would be Nice to have such a conference in the Northwestern > > > > > US... What would it cost to get some instructors out here? Anyone want to > > > > > volunteer to help me organize it? > > > > > > > > > > Martin Nyberg > > > > > GreenMan Farm CSA > > > > > Vashon WA, USA > > > > > > > > > > "Julie M." wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone... > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to remind all of you that our own Hugh Lovel will be giving > > > > > > a 5-hour seminar on Biodynamics at the Upper Midwest Organic > > > > > > Farming Conference at Sinsinawa Mound (a fab place, considered sacred by the > > > > > > Native Americans, and now a happening place, run by retired nuns who have > > > > > > extensive organic gardens, vineyards and even a dairy herd! See this place > > > > > > at http://www.sinsinawa.org/smc.htm ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Hugh will be speaking with Clair Hall of Releaf, Inc., who's an amazing > > > > > > biodynamic farmer from Minnesota. (Clair is a sweet BD soul, all her gardens > > > > > > are named after her favorite authors, she can make rain, and she makes an > > > > > > outstanding "Glad Heart" tea, among other things!) > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you're thinking this seminar should cost at least $150, but in fact, > > > > > > it is a steal at a mere $45...Yup - that comes out to about $9/hr! And the > > > > > > March 4th seminar is rapidly approaching, so check out the website for the > > > > > > UMOFC at http://agile.net/UMOFC/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the seminar description: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Biodynamics is Agriculture in Motion. Growing food is really about life, > > > > > > and life forces are always moving, always dynamic. These forces play a > > > > > > critical role in the health and growth of plants, animals, and people. Hugh > > > > > > Lovel, founder of Union Ag Institute in Blairsville, Georgia and Clair Hall, > > > > > > founder of Releaf, Inc. in Wabasha, MN, will bring you the basics of > > > > > > biodynamics. Explore the cosmos in a microcosm; discuss the flows of free > > > > > > ether and how it may become bound ether on your farm. Learn how we can work > > > > > > with the life forces to increase the vitality of our farms and our spirits." > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope to see you there! > > > > > > > > > > > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 18:40:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10775 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:40:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA01085; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:32:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA00733 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:30:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Aj6d-0006Ds-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:31:43 -0800 Message-ID: <36C215B1.89A1F703@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:26:41 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination References: <004001be550d$c44d7920$7a4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C1BF2C.9443D2C8@direct.ca> <19990210.155123.15094.0.LaQuerencia@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 248 Dear Deborah, This subject is so subtle and so much connected with us, human beings (unlike plant fertilization) that one really has to make an effort to report objectively: are we talking animal(s) or are we talking human beings. But, you are very right, Deborah; the condition (spiritual and physical) of the father (here we can say: father being, if we include both animal and man) the condition of the father before, during AND after conception is much, much more important than generally assumed. In order to report on animals only, I can vouchsafe that the disentanglement between a cow and a bull (after mating) takes a while. And I cannot put my time-finger on it that easily. I would say thirty minutes or thereabouts. The two entities are marvellously entwined like TWO magic carpets (IF the father/mother beings are congruent i.e. fit together). You see, here comes the seeing of those patterns. And I am, by no means, perfect. I can only report what I have seen. I have not conducted breeding tests either. But I would assume that 'similar patterns' could produce better offsprings. The pull of male/female towards each other (and just as I am writing this, two dogs, a male and a female - totally incongruent - are wading through the snow and around our house. It's mating season....) the pull of male/female towards each other, whether they are congruent or not, is very, very great. And as Martha reported, big bulls and small cows and any breed may mate and produce awful results. To a certain extent, cows are racists. I had a red Angus cow in a herd of 20 black. It was heart rendring how the mother treated her daughter (red). So, there seems to be an old 'wisdom' in the cowbeing that feels that it ought to keep the race clean. But with all the cross breeding, this has been lost entirely. One wonders, really, whether the (cow) races were first.......! Another thought. But, IF we could see the mantric patterns around cows (and the semen we collect) we could chose the right cows or better, the right pair. I want to think these thoughts as Thomas has indicated. Simply think them and develop them further so that someone can 'pick them' like a ripe apple and use them if and when the time is ready (since thoughts are realities). Well, here we are standing at the threshhold of a new Millenia. I am convinced that such a discussion is exactly what is needed to step into the year 2000 properly. I am deeply thankful for your contributions. Regards Ferdinand Deborah M Byron wrote: > Ferdinand wrote: > > : > >The mating process is, indeed, the highest manifestation that can be > >imagined. I>already indicated the dance of the 'rainbow' - the whirlpool > of sound, > >light,>vibrations and movement(s) some time before the actual mating > process > >(permit me>to use this word) is taking place. Many, many years ago (as a > special > >gift) I>received an Afghan carpet. That carpet's colourful weavery does > > >reflect the>manifestations around beings (high or low) during their > mating game. > > I would appreciate some help tracking down a remark by Rudolf > Steiner. I believe he indicated that one day people would discover that > the role of the father in the conception of his children is much more > important than is currently thought. As Ferdinand has mentioned in > relation to animals, the male is not merely the donor of a physical > substance (semen) but contributes subtle energies vital to the health of > the developing child. And I believe he suggested that there are definite > negative effects on fetal development if a father is inebriated at the > moment of conception. I found this so interesting because the prevailing > opinion today seems to be that only the condition of the mother, in terms > of *her* consumption of toxic substances, has real influence on prenatal > development. > > Thank you, Ferdinand and Julie, for your insights into this whole > subject of AI. It seems very important that we try to understand this. > > Warm regards, > > Deborah Byron > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 18:49:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10922 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA02728; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:41:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA02626 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:40:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AjGi-0000RY-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:42:08 -0800 Message-ID: <36C21821.9036E5B5@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:37:05 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Internet Message Salmoniod semen and egg extraction References: <19990210214152.9119.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 249 Dear Michael, I am glad you bring this up. It is strange that I was not able to bring the two together sooner. In the mating process of the fish, you have the water as a mediator streaming by. And it is wonderful to see how it meanders around the fish. One could compare it with millions of hands that carry the fish in the water, caressing it sweetly while it is gliding in the stream. Now, when larg(er), warm blooded animals are mating, a similar stream can be seen as well. I think one could speak of an etheric stream surrounding, bathing, 'carrying' them. It appears as if they were floating in this medium (invisible to the naked eye though). But, the fish gives it away, so to speak. There, you can see the water meandering carefully and subtly around the fish supporting the touching and caressing. If you would leave the water away, you'd have dry skin (of fish) totally rubbing itself to pieces. One could spin that thought a bit further. Materialism. And that's what we are doing to the animals. We rob them of this etheric gliding, if I may call it that way. yes, I am interested in the extraction process, although it is a very, very painful one, as far as I am concerned. Regards Ferdinand Michael Smith wrote: > Oh, by the way, > > If the methods of semen and egg extraction for the salmoniods are > needed, feel free to ask. I think I have copies on the procedure. > > Sincerely, > Michael. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 18:53:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10986 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA03504; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:44:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA02688 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:40:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp192.cy-net.net [208.21.195.1]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA10837 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:56:35 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5517.B900D1C0@FLYLO>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:06:38 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5517.B900D1C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: A couple of ideas Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:06:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id SAA02689 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 250 Northeast Organic Farmer's Association conference is March 6 in Wethersfield Connecticut. Topic address will be "The Changing Face of Organic Gardening". call (203) 484-2445 (NOFA/CT) or see the website: www.organicgardening.com should have more information. Perhaps by then, the NW area BD group would be able to announce a time, place, and themes at the OG conference. Also, the NYC garden(s) plight might be addressed at this March conference as well. martha (tx) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 18:59:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11043 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA04585; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:50:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04104 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:48:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA20728 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:52:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:52:26 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination In-Reply-To: <19990210.155123.15094.0.LaQuerencia@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 251 Dear Deb, RS did talk about Father, Mother, place, time etc. in the role of conception of human beings. I don't believe this applies to animals like fish or cattle, etc. as they have a Group Soul. Michael(BC) On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Deborah M Byron wrote: > > > Ferdinand wrote: > > : > >The mating process is, indeed, the highest manifestation that can be > >imagined. I>already indicated the dance of the 'rainbow' - the whirlpool > of sound, > >light,>vibrations and movement(s) some time before the actual mating > process > >(permit me>to use this word) is taking place. Many, many years ago (as a > special > >gift) I>received an Afghan carpet. That carpet's colourful weavery does > > >reflect the>manifestations around beings (high or low) during their > mating game. > > > I would appreciate some help tracking down a remark by Rudolf > Steiner. I believe he indicated that one day people would discover that > the role of the father in the conception of his children is much more > important than is currently thought. As Ferdinand has mentioned in > relation to animals, the male is not merely the donor of a physical > substance (semen) but contributes subtle energies vital to the health of > the developing child. And I believe he suggested that there are definite > negative effects on fetal development if a father is inebriated at the > moment of conception. I found this so interesting because the prevailing > opinion today seems to be that only the condition of the mother, in terms > of *her* consumption of toxic substances, has real influence on prenatal > development. > > Thank you, Ferdinand and Julie, for your insights into this whole > subject of AI. It seems very important that we try to understand this. > > Warm regards, > > Deborah Byron > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 19:02:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA11101 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:02:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA05021; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:53:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04517 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:50:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AjPw-0002IB-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:51:40 -0800 Message-ID: <36C21A5C.F0594D2B@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:46:36 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Internet Message References: <19990210212809.220.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 252 Well, Michael, if and when you send me the way one can fertilize salmon eggs more humanely, I'll take it to the hatchery. Agreed. I am always for action. And another interesting point you raised: yes, our river is dammed higher up and has caused endless problems with the rearing of salmon - not the least with unseasonal flooding, extreme supplies of water, reduction of food in the water and a host of other problems. BC Hydro was taken to court by the local First Nation (Indian Band) and had to agree (after 45 years of running the river their way) that they, as of January st, 1998, have to imitate the 'old water flow' of the time before the dam was built. Regards Ferdinand Michael Smith wrote: > Woh Ferdy, > > Its hard, but not impossible to believe. > > catch the female, cut it open and extract the eggs. Then, they take the > male, cut it to pieces and sprinkle the semen over it. > > > It sounds like they just need a bit of education. There are much more > humane methods. There is a substance placed into the water to > temporarily knock the female out. At that point, just by using gentle > pressure, her eggs are removed. A similiar method is used to extract > the males semen. I learned the methods by studying rainbow trout, and > they are members of the salmaniod family. What these folks are doing > is pure barbary. > > downstreamsi.e. in the sea. They rear millions of salmon. They are being > kept so close together that they have to feed them antibiotics with > their daily feed ration. Commercially kept salmon, i.e. the meat of > salmon from so called salmon farms, is more yellowish and full of fat.> > > A fellow tried to sell me medicated feed today. Said it was an > antibiotic called tetracycline. Tetracyline was experimental during the > Viet Nam era. I didn't think it was even being used today. Whats worse > there is no redeming value in giving it to salmanoids either. The only > redeeming value...it fattens the feed dealers wallet. > > By the way, I raise trout closely and we've found no need to use > medicated feeds. > > animal world at large deep in our hearts and thanking them for being > with us and coming back and back again and again.> > > Amen, Amen and Amen. But please follow that awareness up with action. > For it is the meditating soul that springs the body into action. > > LUCIA SARADOFF wrote: > > > Hi Ferdinand: was thinking of the state of salmon in States, which > > they say are dying, not breeding as they once did. how to reverse > > these things, so so sad, wasteful, an insult to the wisdom and power > > that created all of it, us, including those wonderful creatures you > > have seen feeding on them as they were supposed to. Have you > > actually witnessed bears > > salmon fishing? L > > Lucia, > > The reason they aren't breeding is due to the state of the water and > environment. The salmaniods need high oxygen through the motion of > falling water. The young fry, the fingerling, and the developing embryo > need cool water with high amounts of oxygen. It is possible to > accomplish this through the waters motion over stones. The trout have > specific requirements for hatchlings in terms of both temperature and > oxygen. If these things don't occur, the embryo will rot. Another > variable that must be taken into accout with all this is height above > sea level. In high mountain areas, the air is much thinner. This > places a greater need for higher volumes of water falling from greater > heights in order to induce the proper amount of oxygen in the water. > > It seems to me that if some are saying the salmon are dying that there > is a culprit somewhere destroying its' environment. I remember reading > about the plans in that neck of the woods to damn the rivers and streams > for hydro-electric power facilities for development. Theres' where the > problem is - Gov't solutions. > > Sincerely, > Michael. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 19:47:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA11711 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:47:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA10935; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:37:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10653 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:36:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0207.direct.ca ([204.244.83.23] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Ak8V-0002i8-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:37:44 -0800 Message-ID: <36C2251A.38408842@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:32:26 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: AI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 253 Dear friends, I am ever so thankful that this subject has come up. I am aghast, to say the least. How can we expect the animal world to procreate (pro-create) and produce healthy offsprings after having read all those many contributions. Isn't it astounding that there are still some healthy cows in the field(s). While reading all the articles and contributions I came to the conclusion that 'a crisis' is at hand. It may hit us sooner than later. Cow Madness may only be one side of the coin. If we weaken only one link of the chain (and the chain consists of many small links such as: How is the animal kept, looked after, fed, reared, bred etc. etc. how is the soil treated on which the animal stands. How do we approach the animal etc.) if only one link is weakend, it may have results that could cause the chain to fall apart. Steiner was concerned that bees may disappear within 70 - 80 years of his bee lectures. He indicated (as many of you know) that bees cannot survive for many generations in those woodden boxes into which we force them into. The time of reckoning is at hand. The bees (and we) are in trouble. We have to go back to the roots and ask ourselves: Can we uncover some of the old traditions and bring them forward to 1999 and 2000? Can we penetrate those old traditions in such a way that we do not call them 'old hat' or 'irrelevant or even worse: superstition! Let us meditate on them. Let us ask ourselves: what did they mean. Why did they work? What was their meaning? I own a book (from Switzerland) containing some 700 - 800 old farmers' rules. Reading these rules and verses etc. bring tears of laughter onto your face. And that is healthy, to begin with (I don't laugh enough....). But then comes the moment, when I have to say to myself: (and here is one of them, simple) Abendrot, gutwetter Bot' (Evening red, good weather messenger) isn't it interesting, they were looking at the sky and knew what kind of weather we will have next day. In so called mothern America, we listen to the radio and (funny it happened in Vancouver) it was raining like mad, yet, the talk show was reporting sunshine. I was wet to the bones. The reporters were sitting in an enclosed room on the 15th flooor, downtown Vancouver. And that's the way Universities, Scientists and (often) Government advisors counsel us farmers. They bring us stuff which they wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. Yet, they are doing their job, get paid for it (regardless whether the crop is failing or the cows won't breed), they go home at 5PM and watch the news. God, have we come thus far? I think we are battling a tough battle but, somewhere, or from somewhere, an enlightened breath of rejuvenation will have to enter into our Society. This discussion group is a marvel. Hope my ramblings on don't cause nausea. Regards Ferdinand. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 20:01:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA11838 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:01:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA13359; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:52:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12988 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:50:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0207.direct.ca ([204.244.83.23] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AkMc-0005Jm-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:52:18 -0800 Message-ID: <36C22881.6C9469A8@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:46:57 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination Dr. Steiner: re Father/Mother References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 254 Dear Michael, It would be helpful if you could get me that lecture, Michael. There is something very interesting happening. The more you individualize an animal, the more it attaches itself to the human being (dogs, horses etc.come to mind). If we rip the animal(s) out of their group souls, do we make them more 'human' or do we become more animalic - where do we meet. What is going on here? Or, what do the races (Simmenthal, Brown Swiss, Angus etc.) represent? This is going to be highly interesting. Many thanks Ferdinand Michael Roboz wrote: > Dear Deb, > > RS did talk about Father, Mother, place, time etc. in the role of > conception of human beings. I don't believe this applies to animals like > fish or cattle, etc. as they have a Group Soul. Michael(BC) > > On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Deborah M Byron wrote: > > > > > > > Ferdinand wrote: > > > > : > > >The mating process is, indeed, the highest manifestation that can be > > >imagined. I>already indicated the dance of the 'rainbow' - the whirlpool > > of sound, > > >light,>vibrations and movement(s) some time before the actual mating > > process > > >(permit me>to use this word) is taking place. Many, many years ago (as a > > special > > >gift) I>received an Afghan carpet. That carpet's colourful weavery does > > > > >reflect the>manifestations around beings (high or low) during their > > mating game. > > > > > > I would appreciate some help tracking down a remark by Rudolf > > Steiner. I believe he indicated that one day people would discover that > > the role of the father in the conception of his children is much more > > important than is currently thought. As Ferdinand has mentioned in > > relation to animals, the male is not merely the donor of a physical > > substance (semen) but contributes subtle energies vital to the health of > > the developing child. And I believe he suggested that there are definite > > negative effects on fetal development if a father is inebriated at the > > moment of conception. I found this so interesting because the prevailing > > opinion today seems to be that only the condition of the mother, in terms > > of *her* consumption of toxic substances, has real influence on prenatal > > development. > > > > Thank you, Ferdinand and Julie, for your insights into this whole > > subject of AI. It seems very important that we try to understand this. > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Deborah Byron > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 20:22:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA12055 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:22:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA16827; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:13:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16255 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:10:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-4-p105.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.105]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03553 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:12:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C22B86.C951D0F3@seattle2000.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:00:14 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: A couple of ideas References: <01BE5517.B900D1C0@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 255 Martha.... That is a good goal.... Ask in a month and we should have some plans laid out. Martin Nyberg Martha Wells wrote: > Northeast Organic Farmer's Association conference is March 6 in Wethersfield Connecticut. Topic address will be "The Changing Face of Organic Gardening". call (203) 484-2445 (NOFA/CT) or see the website: > www.organicgardening.com should have more information. > Perhaps by then, the NW area BD group would be able to announce a time, place, and themes at the OG conference. > Also, the NYC garden(s) plight might be addressed at this March conference as well. > > martha (tx) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 20:25:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA12095 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:25:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA17285; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:16:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from news1.infoave.net (news1.InfoAve.Net [165.166.15.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA16836 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:13:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by news1.infoave.net; id AA12574; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:14:58 -0500 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:14:58 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990210210433.31770ace@swva.net> X-Sender: mgardner@swva.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: malcolm ian gardner Subject: Re: artificial insemination Cc: bdnow@envirolink.org Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 256 At 03:51 PM 2/10/99 -0600, Deborah M Byron wrote: > I would appreciate some help tracking down a remark by Rudolf >Steiner. I believe he indicated that one day people would discover that >the role of the father in the conception of his children is much more >important than is currently thought. As Ferdinand has mentioned in >relation to animals, the male is not merely the donor of a physical >substance (semen) but contributes subtle energies vital to the health of >the developing child. And I believe he suggested that there are definite >negative effects on fetal development if a father is inebriated at the >moment of conception. I found this so interesting because the prevailing >opinion today seems to be that only the condition of the mother, in terms >of *her* consumption of toxic substances, has real influence on prenatal >development. You are probably thinking of Steiner's lecture to the workmen, Jan. 8, 1923, in Health & Illness, vol. 2. He continued this theme five days later (in the same lecture in which he predicted that cows would go mad--he actually used that word--if they were fed meat). Malcolm From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 20:46:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA12320 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:46:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA20571; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:37:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA20075 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:34:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA27098 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:50:36 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5527.4ADDFBE0@FLYLO>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:58:06 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5527.4ADDFBE0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: FW: not surprising Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:58:04 -0600 Encoding: 25 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 257 I posted this to Ferdinand alone, and it was meant to go to the group. For years my husband studied children's rhymes and how they link to important events in history. These simpleton rhymes were the basis of how people looked at their daily lives. By the way, we're due for a freeze here in Texas this weekend. We've been gardening a lot and it's almost late for some things to go in, but I had an eye on the mesquite and it hasn't set leaves yet, so it was telling us that winter wasn't quite over here yet. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html -----Original Message----- From: Martha Wells [SMTP:flylo@txcyber.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 6:52 PM To: 'Ferdinand Vondruska' Subject: not surprising Red sky at dawning, sailors take warning Red sky at night, sailor's delight. So, the old fellows weren't so off based, even if they approached the topic from different continents. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 20:52:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA12423 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:52:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA21583; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:43:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21345 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0111.direct.ca ([204.244.83.11] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AlAl-0006aI-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:44:08 -0800 Message-ID: <36C2349D.87A83A8@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:38:37 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Screen wrap Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 258 Dear Michael and folks, I just spoke to my son and he told me that I cannot do anything on my side (nor Martha, nor anybody for that matter) if Martin does not get the lines properly. It is the recipient who has to adjust his LINE WRAP. I have to do that from time to time, too. Some e-mail arrives several feet long right off the screen. It could well happen, my son thinks, that Martin touched a toggle switch and his program got changed. So, Martin Nyberg, the ball is in your court. Sorry. Incidentally, I've been playing with my program ever since and learned a lot. Many thanks. Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 21:18:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13094 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:18:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA25704; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:10:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA25584 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:09:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA32064 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:25:13 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE552C.09314B20@FLYLO>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:32:03 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE552C.09314B20@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Screen wrap Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:32:02 -0600 Encoding: 30 TEXT, 93 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 259 Another hint. Every now and then all my favorite settings get 'bobbled'. I don't know what, sometimes an electrical power blip when I'm in the midst of something and it doesn't come back exactly right. I'd strongly suggest that when you have your functions the way you want them, go to a document outside the e-mail parameters and write down EXACTLY what you did to create those settings. I seem to forget to follow my own good advice and end up groping through the toolbars again and again. The help functions are fine but they're written in computereze, and it's most useful when you can read your own words on the matter. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska [SMTP:ferdy@direct.ca] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 7:39 PM To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Screen wrap Dear Michael and folks, I just spoke to my son and he told me that I cannot do anything on my side (nor Martha, nor anybody for that matter) if Martin does not get the lines properly. It is the recipient who has to adjust his LINE WRAP. I have to do that from time to time, too. Some e-mail arrives several feet long right off the screen. It could well happen, my son thinks, that Martin touched a toggle switch and his program got changed. So, Martin Nyberg, the ball is in your court. Sorry. Incidentally, I've been playing with my program ever since and learned a lot. Many thanks. Ferdinand begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@,!`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&)D;F]W0&5N=FER;VQI;FLN;W)G`%-- M5% `8F1N;W= 96YV:7)O;&EN:RYO5;X!'@!P M``$````0````4D4Z(%-CY&_0G MXK\F3RH?*=TI7R>/*U0Y#E ?+J0P`2@C, `"@G-T>>IL!Y!H">!T```34 /P M4&1C=&P*L5PR6&&89&IU,7 %$&=H!4([%C(,`6,)P#)@`S!S;GQE>!DTYF)A%Q!D`B UH#5&YS'0,Y [D2 Q,3,. M4#:?_S>O.+\`43G\`* T;CQ_/8;_,20/P#Z//Y] KPY0.>]##]M$'SVS,P*" M$Q!C-F!+H9,SD#VP=&DYD"!$`1"H875L!4!0"L!A"<#@87!H($8"(38D)4#H M9FDM#Y X`4 Y,% SZTP1&'H=&4Z-B0V3_]1 M#U(?_U,O5#DQP#VC#B%+H3JV#E";56]6?E(Y@1ZA-44CL>7 $D&=Q:QH! M>-)X,/=X<'%1`8!N6# `8 GP3:#O?0`"`37@7E)E`/!]`#& 2X!@#E!V")!W M:PN 9,]K0(/"!/ '0&4Y)4 .`.]Q(CV"A14"$&\%0A"#$%R)=D4`P/4# M$"Y+<'2 \!<0>' U(>UG-94)F?_YY?GV^@?XX08Q"APHZ?HR__I#^1'"@`H<^G M3ZA?J6^.$/]X`*9/J]^L[ZWT"OD#,'@OTWD_>LU[01-0=(Q!/7"15R$N($5A M\7D@LY%^( !P-2"VX0.@!T #(&W[M]!.0'8%L$W $X 7$4W02P]P!"!G%R @ M)P;@8DL"8 F )[=P22!+<2>5!4!KM_)W%N!T++FP_P-P%R '(0+-1MN&X\+/ ,7#^((DPO&2W,3W@N#)- MP+M1OP>0NX(%H > OD `T&N],-YX`-"S\+?0M5,N"H6^\!9[-"N#+5(\,V5+]Q,=#_M #&>0K $X!N MT#5@OD!G4/FX8GDGU]'+PEC `Z"S4F6\4,#4_B<$( 1@O]&U M( $03F#%2+^$L .@S@$U(,8SS#)W!;#_O\"_\+]%6+#+,<,VLK2S?_NTCP5 M>P# `" 6X*U@#-#N*=\P`?$(D&P+, ] 3:&]`"!Y$O+C00N O]%[8D `65!% M4DQ)3DN#/7 "0' Z+R]WY;!>+KI0?0!-P0>0+L'!+S=B40`@#U%D;5#B\G,O M2QZ@%" OL%)X+K6 ;=<#( *0$O)D6+!AXN,ZD0<+@%E #I `T,GJ>0#YNLX1 MC((`JD `2ZD+`@#K@ .5ZX'@ZHUTZX%H`.SP0>SP< `Z`"_MP7\0[K!S5^YA[O#NT&WMP4CNH6$4`'+M06SP@6X`9'WMP4;O M0_#P\5#OD.W0-7WR83#R8>W0[Q#Q,NZP>/_N8>TR\!#P\.N &A "DN,0_Q<` M3G$(P0OR?Q7E3^9?YV__Z'3T<@J%WMUG<+"RW\_@WP\(P33R-: 2\F)K;6LY MK\,@7WV `Q!8H6%]NBW_XD^U40N O<%-!Y#_1E"Z4/_CWMNS%F+];R#[G_]P MOW'/9S]H3VE?:F^V5/WFZU=SAP!AK5!&.V ]L;@R+E80X 6 VW!KF&!;4S!- M5% Z$%"&`'E Y^-Q6%'W8&%=`8\"E&Z[?P//!-\%[W*_M=Q*`?WU4V]]00QT M&B+^!%<;`#5@<]WI0'F\4 S0$U!U^J"Y$ ]O`+Q0+_ :0" W.C-Y>J!03?IF M%LEVL1?-0GI$3A!IA*#;<,G0W?%'B]/QOH!"QM M1'D`@+^_H$TP&O\745@E M%\U3S?'_N)'+P$\`#W^S4OM?_&\5?_^V8_IO) \E'^&C3B GH8C1W\40!X"X M(]$!_M L^?R[0/\EPKFPO?!&H,BRN0&)(-5D_]1CZ;'!X<4#NT#<<;;!NU%] MN"%YP'3=\;D`)V7)TRC_ML K$>(#O% R4C"ANJ .H._04L3TWF3BD&G $#*2 MLU'_P4*WX89@NE$G9;]B!U+5`/9PTV& <7F[(89@'8"_4_\.\;YP]S!]4;P0 MR*#%$,@R] 'L-4`8B#_8?&$P"=E#G"Z8=$P14%)I/^),, 0 MOV*$H"("-]/W<$Y@K\NA!X"XX,40<(!@;KQ0_RXUP'(L*,4#-17(P(YPUM#_ MTA'(L<2@!Y"YL"C0C3!/(/\NHS@A-U&($\B0P:&7LAC MSXB+$8U%4XS<,M M9SW1_[]QPA"XT3@ALU'&,T*1XA#_/B(_$#?"QJ#)X;(PN,$9,;^^\'[12E#2 MX"=EAT%YP)+_1O%',+D!1]9AXC'AQJ#2A/\'D">@5I!&,M$PMV'_4#"P_\3R M1&'#-@S7'T?^9M+B_T@-)V9]ZX!6< ,`$! ``````P`1$ `````#`( 0____ M_T `!S" ]4'D756^`4 `"#" ]4'D756^`0L``( (( 8``````, ```````!& M``````.%`````````P`"@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````$(4````````# M``6 "" &``````# ````````1@````!2A0``MPT``!X`)8 (( 8``````, ` M``````!&`````%2%```!````! ```#@N, `#`": "" &``````# ```````` M1@`````!A0````````L`+X (( 8``````, ```````!&``````Z%```````` M`P`P@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````$84````````#`#* "" &``````# M````````1@`````8A0```````!X`08 (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#:% M```!`````0`````````>`$* "" &``````# ````````1@`````WA0```0`` M``$`````````'@!#@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````.(4```$````!```` B`````!X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ``````P`--/TW``#[TH4` ` end From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 10 21:40:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13322 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:40:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA28202; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:31:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27994 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:30:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.19]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:41:03 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:32:04 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org, OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU Subject: OFF: Malarial Mosquitoes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 260 Hello Friends, I am asking for advice in combating malarial mosquitoes on behalf of Dr. Yeshi Dhonden, the Tibetan doctor I was recently privileged to see, when he was here in NYC from his clinic in Dharamsala, India and Dr. Marsha Woolf, a naturapath who works with him. According to Dr. Marsha Woolf (of The Tibetan Refugee Health Care Project), they are having a terrible time at the clinic in India with what she described as "DDT resistant" malarial mosquitoes. Apparently many people are dying of malaria there. She was wondering if there is something that mosquito netting can be treated with to combat the mosquitoes? I was wondering, further if there are any sustainable, organic, and/or biodynamic treatments that anyone on the list is aware of that could be of some help, not just to treat the mosquito nets, but the people and area in general? I would imagine they need both short and long-term solutions. If anyone has any suggestions at all, or contacts who could be of some assistance, I would be very grateful to be able to pass this information on to Dr. Woolf. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 03:04:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA17993 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:04:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA02302; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 02:55:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA02138 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 02:54:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-3-p224.wolfenet.com [206.159.28.224]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05516 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:55:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C28A02.8BF62EE2@seattle2000.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:43:02 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Screen wrap References: <36C2349D.87A83A8@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 261 Yes, Ferdy... I adjusted my text wrapping. But you should have the option, like I do, to adjust your email test wrapping for sending email as well as receiving. If you don;t you may want to upgrade to newer software someday. No big deal... On to more important "growing" matters... Martin Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Dear Michael and folks, > > I just spoke to my son and he told me that I cannot do anything on my > side (nor Martha, nor anybody for that matter) if Martin does not get > the lines properly. It is the recipient who has to adjust his LINE WRAP. > I have to do that from time to time, too. Some e-mail arrives several > feet long right off the screen. It could well happen, my son thinks, > that Martin touched a toggle switch and his program got changed. So, > Martin Nyberg, the ball is in your court. Sorry. Incidentally, I've been > playing with my program ever since and learned a lot. Many thanks. > Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 03:09:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA18026 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:09:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA02872; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:01:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA02546 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 02:59:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-3-p224.wolfenet.com [206.159.28.224]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA05889 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 00:00:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C28B32.9A58BB12@seattle2000.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:48:07 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Y2K and CSA.. Millennium Victory Gardens References: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C08247.FAA09417@seattle2000.com> <36C09F88.3258FEF7@direct.ca> <36C1D6F4.1DDFF38F@seattle2000.com> <36C1E267.7D65E1AD@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 262 The more reading and talking I do (with others who are seriously studying this Y2K pest) the more I inch my way toward preparing for all contingencies of this mistake of the Millennium. My community is having a series of town meetings starting this month. I am speaking at the first one on the topic of Millennium Victory Gardens and Community Supported Agriculture. Below is a copy of an article I was asked to write for the local paper, the first in a series that will go throughout the season.... To the Beachcomber February 5, 1999 Community Supported Agriculture - Your Millennium Victory Garden Congratulations Vashon Island! Did you know that we are a "showcase community" for the entire Northwest and perhaps all of North America for Community Supported Agriculture (CSA)? We have more CSA's per capita here (8) than all other communities in the Northwest. And yet, few of us here are aware of the benefits of this local agricultural system. What is Community Supported Agriculture? Also known as "subscription farming", central to the philosophy of CSA is the commitment of the community to share in the abundance and risks of agricultural production with local growers. It is born from a conscious choice by the community to choose local farms over other sources for the many reasons outlined below. Members purchase a share of the harvest during the off-season in January-April or so (now), and pick up their share weekly when harvest begins around May-June, until it ends in October or November (in most cases). Good for Farmers, Good for Community, Good for the Land Farmers receive life in the community once more: * Growers are allowed to concentrate on farming, on what they do the best, rather than be salesmen and saleswomen during the most crucial time of the season. * Money is available early in the season for seeds, fertilizer, and equipment when the purchases need to be made, avoiding the need to borrow money to start up the season and risk losing the farm if Mother Nature pulls a fast one. Communities receive both concrete and subtle benefits from involvement: * CSA is a bargain considering the alternative sources of organic produce. The weekly bag you pick up at the store would likely cost 25% more for such an interesting variety. And CSA affords the freshest possible produce. * Since CSA's typically use organic growing techniques, members' concern over chemical residues is alleviated. * Scientific tests have proven that a diet of locally grown foods that are in season strengthens the immune system. This could be the best form of preventive medicine. * Certainly a sense of security and connectedness comes from having your source of sustenance in your own neighborhood or town. Land that might otherwise be developed can be farmed once again, if we make the choice to support local agriculture. CSA is virtually always organic agriculture, which enhances the land and the soil with each passing year, unlike chemical farming, which damages the life of the soil the more it is used. "Save our Topsoil" should be our motto. Down to Earth Membership in a CSA provides a peace of mind impossible for the supermarket or even the "farm stand" shopper to achieve. Members see their vegetables growing, watch them form and ripen, sometimes even get dirt under their fingernails working in the gardens. They can develop a personal relationship with the farm and the farmer. Their children learn that most valuable of lessons by observation; you always reap what you sow. This is the "down to earth" education we used to get not so long ago when agriculture was part and parcel of our daily lives. Your "Millennium Victory Garden" (Y2K Bug?) The closing of the curtain on the 20th Century is a time to celebrate. It is also time to plan for the possibility of disruptions in human services, financial services, and food distribution due that pesky Y2K bug. Local agricultural resources are vital at all times, but we may now see that our dependence on food sources from outside our local area could leave us in a precarious and dangerous position. There is opportunity in every adversity. We should take this little bug seriously and study it well. Your local CSA growers are planning to be your Millennium Victory Garden if you will support them. These are our local CSA growers. Most have limited shares available so contact them early. And if you do, congratulations on your foresight and wisdom! By Martin Nyberg, GreenMan Farm CSA (Alphabetic List) GreenMan Farm CSA Martin and Jasper Nyberg 8800 SW Dilworth Rd greenman@wolfenet.com 567-4548 Hogsback Farm Amy and Joseph Bogaard 16530 91st Ave SW 463-1896 Island Meadow Farm Bob and Bonnie Gregson 10301 SW Cemetery Rd 463-9065 The Kitchen Garden Margie Morgan 11909 SW Cove Rd 463-9465 Pacific Potager Michele Crawford 27918 Vashon Hwy SW 463-2750 Orca Farm Julie and Roy Beck 27118 97th Ave SW 463-6107 The Small Farm Marie Harrington 12203 SW 153rd 567-4015 Whistling Winds Farm Amy Dugan & Olga Shifani Burton, WA 206-834-6051 ~Martin From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 03:13:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA18162 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:13:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA03192; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:04:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03095 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:03:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-3-p224.wolfenet.com [206.159.28.224]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA05778 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 00:05:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C28C2D.6A23B38A@seattle2000.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:52:18 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Fast Facts - Abundance Conciousness References: <005001be5446$0024acc0$ad4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C08247.FAA09417@seattle2000.com> <36C09F88.3258FEF7@direct.ca> <36C1D6F4.1DDFF38F@seattle2000.com> <36C1E267.7D65E1AD@direct.ca> <36C200D5.5903646D@seattle2000.com> <36C211C9.C33019BA@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 263 Went the the Vashon Island Community Council Public Safety Committee meeting tonight to talk about Y2K and local food resources (CSA)... Here's a fast fact I just learned. In 1929 during the depression, King County (my local county) supplied itself with nearly 50% of it's own food. Now it is .028%, and the average bit of food travels 1,300 miles from field to table (a national average), with about 30 stops and processes in between.... each of which utilizes computerized processes to move the food along.... A lot of room for little y2k bugs to eat at the process. I'd be willing to bet the above statistics are nearly the same for your local area. To find and fix all the computers and chips would take another 12 years or so. The most recent statistic is that 20% of the US major corporations and government agencies will not be ready for 2000. The power grid is expected to lose power to at least 7-10%. That statistic comes from the power company locally here in the NW. They are being conservative, you can bet on it. The rest of the industrialized nations are far behind in "bug" repair efforts. It was an international monetary crisis that set off the depression of 1929. A breakdown in international trade by human interference. This time it may be a stupid mistake made by short sighted computer programmers. Here is my take on this. The root cause of this "bug" is "scarcity consciousness"...the inability of people to imagine the abundance that is possible... they just had to save two digits worth of computer processing space so they write '99, instead of 1999 in their computer code. Two stupid digits. It boils down to stinginess of thought and deed based on fear. Hence, because of the natural law of cause and effect, the major outcome of this mistake will likely be fear and stinginess of thought and deed, unless we start now to think "abundance" and extend ourselves to each other with generosity. A lot of people don't want to talk about this subject. Don't kill the messenger! It is a good time to get to know our neighbors and have lots of potlucks! Even if Y2K turns out to be a non-event, just think of all the new friends you will make. Martin From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 05:10:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA19179 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:10:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA09610; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:01:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA09439 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:57:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10Asu4-0003qN-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:59:24 +0000 Message-ID: <36C20961.4878D227@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:34:10 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Text wrap References: <01BE54EC.F54C83C0@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 264 You're wrapping well Martha! Alison Martha Wells wrote: > Test: I changed 'format column' to best fit. I don't know if this will make a difference or not. Since I see this as a fine fit, could someone who is having problems let me know the status of this test, please? > > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 05:10:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA19187 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:10:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA09565; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:01:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA09432 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:57:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10Astu-0003pG-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:59:15 +0000 Message-ID: <36C207F2.1E6CC2F2@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:28:02 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination References: <004001be550d$c44d7920$7a4b2e9c@oemcomputer> <36C1BF2C.9443D2C8@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 265 Ferdy I think a lot of what seems to be a blindness is just familiarity. I studied agriculture and knew nothing about it so the first time we had a field trip to an indoor pig unit I was horrified to see gilts with chains around their necks and the other end concreted into the floor - I wandered with the crowd and kept whispering (didn't want to show my ignorance) "what's wrong with them?" assuming them to be particularly violent pigs! My fellow students were non-plussed, many having grown up seeing similar things. Of course there was nothing wrong with them but I presume it saved money on railings and more posts if you only needed one chain to keep a pig in place. I did my dissertation on the welfare of veal calves, consumers were just beginning to be aware that 3-month old calves may have spent their life in a hardboard crate with no light just so they could have a pale piece of flesh on their plate. At the time there was one university trying to find out how to chemically measure the state of wellbeing of a calf and to combine this with monitored behaviour to come up with some sort of index. I put a picture of one of these solid crates, with the 9" square door for passing in feed, and the face of the calf looking out at the beginning of my submission. I remember one particular fellow student was really quite angry that I could do such a thing and accusingly said I was being emotional: "you can't do that!" When I later saw semen collection for pigs where a massive boar was encouraged to mount what looked like a carpentar's bench I kept my unease to myself as I tried to accept it as normal. What I am trying to say is that a lot of us accept things just because they 'are'. Of course now many many pigs are in outdoor units and veal crates have long since been banned but there is a certain amount of acceptance still, of trust in the 'experts' because people feel its either not their place or they simply _have_ to trust that others know best and such and such is an OK practice. I don't know what made me open my eyes properly and realise what was going on was exactly as I orginally felt - appalling. Maybe it was part of growing up. But I think realising what is acceptable in the sight of God and what is not cannot be approached just on intellectual grounds and that is what most of us do (probably not on this list though). And this is probably why we are certainly not going to win the GE battle at least in the short run. All the processes you are so wonderful at descibing simply do not exist for most people; so many people can't even accept the remotest possibility of auras let alone animals having auras which may actually be having a serious affect on anything else. Its got to be feelings and compassion that is awoken in us before any change will come. And although I was at university 20 years ago now, feelings are still not accepted in mainstream modern farming. Emotions are forbidden! Now I've quite depressed myself! Anyway, having said all that, I am so glad you're back on-line, your descriptions give me enormous joy and make it so clear that despite everything it is _still_ a beautiful world. We are snowed in this week and when the radio keeps going on about the bad weather I simply don't know what they're talking about - it is absolutely beautiful! Alison Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Dear Julie, > > This subject really is hitting on extremely sensitive nerves and what the plants > (appear to quietly) accept quietly comes to the fore here with full vengeans. > But I do not mean not among those who write, but with sreaming auric apearances > in the animal world IF and WHEN not properly dealt with. > > I say that the plant appear to quietly accept (for the time being) our > interference. While the damage of GE is being played out on the etheric level (a > much milder and more tolerant level one could say; but please do not > misunderstand, it is as dangerous to mix into that level with a profit oriented > mind) the astral level, on which the cows are being engineered on, will react > with utmost revenge. > > While the etheric level lets us sleep at night even though with have violated > its rights, the astro level will hound us from tranquilizer bottle to alcohol to > drugs and so forth. > > It is so difficult to write about these 'secrets' (I only mean this on > connection with that they cannot be seen that easily on a daily basis) for a > variety of reasons. Firstly, I do not want to appear like an authority. There > are no authorities on that level. It is like a person who can speak French or > Chinese etc. So, please do not look at me as an authority and, please, question > it all. I can and do make mistakes and when I say something that you do not > understand, come back. I do not want to offend anybody. Secondly, it is a 'law' > in spiritual talks that such revelations (another word that needs a short > explanation: reveal, show, open, introduce etc.) ought to be made by talking and > not by writing about it. However, since Steiner's lectures, and since they have > been copied by shorthand (thousands of them) the law has (somewhat) changed. > Yet, a lot of 'crap' (does not need explanation) is out there and, as Thomas > said in an earlier post, a lot of lies are being presented as the truth. So, > when you live with what I am saying here, when you keep it in your heart, make > it your own by observing of what is going on. Compare, correct and in a positive > way, ciritizise. I call it THE THREE C process. > > So, coming back to AI we must, to begin with, look at the monumental task > farmers and proponents of AI were facing some (already more than) 100 years ago. > Of course, it was not commercialized then and may have had different effects on > cows and bulls. > > The problem really does start (with almost anything) when the barebone > commercialism enters the field. > > I have a sister in Switzerland who is breeding Rottwiler dogs. For 15 years or > more and I have been visiting her two to three times a year (what a > traveller.....). I have the opportunity to see what is happening in the breeding > process (and results) although they never use an AI service with Rottweilers. > It is almost exactly what you said, Julie, with regards to cows. Rottweilers > were bred for the eye only. And they had to look more and more 'beautiful' - the > result was a more and more vicious dog with hip problems and health problems > gallore. And today, Julie, they do not know how to fix it. Thousands of little > dogs have to be put down although Rottweilers have a rather vast gene pool. > > I am of the opinion that we do not study life beyond life. We do not look at > what a plant represents beyond the limited level on which it shows itself > (roots, stem, leaves, flower, crop etc.) Universities and schools have (to a > large extent) removed our ability to see the aura, to see shakras, to see life > lines, to see colorful interactions between plants that manifest themselves just > a bit beyond the mere physical level. And they have successfully removed the > interpretation of these manifestations. It is relatively easy to see auras etc. > Those who have taken drugs can get such visions for a few dollars, although the > damage (after a while) to ones own psyche, may not be worth following that > venue. I an, in 1999 not talking stuff that are not believable. The Hippy > movement and drug use have made it clear that there are appearances out there > which go beyond the mere physical. And these manifestations, these appearances > follow certain laws. > > Every person, every bird, each and every little louse is embedded into such > manifestation(s) and they can be seen. Steiner warned that if we cannot get a > hold of these manifestations by the end of this Century (we are minutes before > its close..... or beyond, depending how you look at it) if we cannot get hold of > it, the materialists will run rings around us. He had hoped that a huge number > of people on this earth will become trained, scientific etheric etc. seers who > do not spread bs and run all kinds of circus' in order to attract money and > stature. > > So, AI brings us, as a discussion group, to the very edge, to the very abyss, to > either the cliff or the bridge that leads to the manifestation of the being(s) > behind it. > > I feel honored to be permitted to talk to you here. You are a real challenge to > my 'seeing'. I must demand the very best from myself. And it ain't easy. > > Now, Julie, I don't think I said that bulls semen were extracted electrically. > What I observed was this: the smell or hormones of a cow in heat was put on an > artificial cow so that the bull could jump it. The semen, then, is collected and > deep-frozen right away. > > I agree with you that farming - true farming got into terrible disarray for > years and years and people, who had not the slightest clue entered the picture > of breeding. Cowboying, that's all. The mass breeding brought havoc to the cow > being. Cows were not bread with some spiritual goal in mind. They were bread for > weight, that's all. And they had to be able to survive a treck of many hundred > miles to the slaughterhouse. > > Many a cow (Gene Poole) is still hanging around from that time. We have to > import all kinds of breeds: Brown Swiss, Galloways, Hereford, Angus and so forth > in order to improve the cows that we have here. The cow being on this continent > has been put through the grinder and needs regular refreshers. And so, we are > stealing semen (for and from animals) seeds (for and from plants) from other > continents (India, the Amazon) in order to continue our insanity namely: > quantity breeding, spiritless breeding (I mean without any considerations of > what is behind a cow or plant etc.). We will run out of reserves - and so, Gene > Manipulation (you do not have to go to the Andes to steal non corrupted potato > crops or to the Amazon or India etc.) is the next and latest (perhaps last) step > to push materialism's manifestation just one more step further. WE do not listen > to the aura. > > The mating process is, indeed, the highest manifestation that can be imagined. I > already indicated the dance of the 'rainbow' - the whirlpool of sound, light, > vibrations and movement(s) some time before the actual mating process (permit me > to use this word) is taking place. Many, many years ago (as a special gift) I > received an Afghan carpet. That carpet's colourful weavery does reflect the > manifestations around beings (high or low) during their mating game. > > Yours Ferdinand > > Julie M. wrote: > > > Dear Ferdy & Martha, > > > > I'd like to jump in on this thread as I have some rather strong feelings on > > the whole AI > > thing... > > > > First of all, I was completely enchanted with your description Ferdy, of > > what ACTUALLY occurs during the mating process. I've not developed the "eye" > > to see this firsthand, but you give me something to strive for. > > > > To begin with, Julie, simply watch with eyes wide open to get the physical > facts. Eventually, close your eyes and follow your third eye. And after some > training, you can see the manifestations even without the very cows being there. > You can call it up like a 'computer programme' by asking for it and wait..... > and it will appear. I made some mistakes when reporting to the group because I > was sitting at the monitor. The interference is great. later, I corrected them. > > > One thing that actually shocked (no pun intended) me, when I learned of it > > is the procedure whereby bulls are electrically induced to produce semen. > > This inhumanity was VERY disturbing to me and I wondered what effect this > > might have on the bull, the semen & resulting offspring. > > > > Another aspect, on a completely mundane level, that was recently suggested > > on my local farming list, was that if companies like Monsanto can retain > > "rights" over any future crops their seed might produce, what implications > > might this hold for AI and any future heifers that a company's semen might > > produce? > > > > Is being done already. Good semen is being sold for millins of dollars and 'do > not copy' or give away.....! (who would at those prices) > > > And I would also like to take exception to the implication that using AI > > diversifies the gene pool. I think it has the opposite effect. Semen ads now > > tout the benefit "outcross" on many of the newer bulls because of this very > > problem. There is so much "Mason/Sooner/Boomer" blood in American Jersey > > herds today (because of AI) that the cattle are weakened. The breed > > societies are actually encouraging people to crossbreed their cattle, then > > breed > > them back to Jersey or Swiss or whatever, a few more times...after a couple > > generations they can get purebred papers! And I have said before that the > > semen folks do not breed for temperament, good health, efficiency on grass, > > etc. (Although New Zealanders are much better about this) Here, we have > > created > > udders that the frame of a cow can barely support, completely out of > > proportion! This invites problems, and that's why the average life of a US > > dairy cow is 5 years! > > If the AI engineers would train the auric seeing they could (and that's what I > am driving at) develop a model where one could see beyond one generation of cows > and say: this does not work or, we need to use different semen etc. etc. or the > environment in which the cow is being inseminated is wrong OR certain stars are > in a wrong place. Stars have an incredible influence on cows (especially the > moon!!!). I am for bringing the old and the new together. > > > The problem with breeding a cow to an oversized bull or larger breed is a > > bad management call, period. It is bad farming that is a result of > > greed...(a decision probably made by a cowboy-rancher who's never had to > > deliver a 10-lb baby!) To portray it as the result of natural service is > > inaccurate. It also smacks of the whole > > techno-superiority complex that our society suffers from - that an AI > > technician is better qualified than the farmer in determining the bull of > > choice. Farmers have lost faith in their knowledge/experience, animals, > > land, and placed their faith into the hands scientists & big corporations. > > Well, you hit the nail on the head! Farmers have been made 'university chunkies' > they must accept everything that comes from Universities. They have been forced > to forgo their own instincts and deep insight(s) into nature. And as the farmer > was made dependent upon the scientists, he started to lose money and his land. > > > So Steiner was right, IMO, we've brought problems into our herds with this > > technology (and we appear to be attacking the next link in the food chain, > > with GE plants!) > > > > Technology is like fire...a marvelous tool, when used with wisdom - but in > > the hands of children (like our scientists/techies) downright deadly! > > > > Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 06:12:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA19478 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:12:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA12231; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA12160 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:00:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Att6-0002VR-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:02:29 -0800 Message-ID: <36C2B73E.57C0FCFC@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 02:55:58 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Screen wrap References: <36C2349D.87A83A8@direct.ca> <36C28A02.8BF62EE2@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 266 Funny, and I am on Windows 98, Netscape latest issue and the like. Well, there is always something new. Keeps us spending money on Big Bill. Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Yes, Ferdy... I adjusted my text wrapping. But you should have the option, > like I do, to adjust your email test wrapping for sending email as well as > receiving. If you don;t you may want to upgrade to newer software > someday. No big deal... On to more important "growing" matters... > Martin > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Dear Michael and folks, > > > > I just spoke to my son and he told me that I cannot do anything on my > > side (nor Martha, nor anybody for that matter) if Martin does not get > > the lines properly. It is the recipient who has to adjust his LINE WRAP. > > I have to do that from time to time, too. Some e-mail arrives several > > feet long right off the screen. It could well happen, my son thinks, > > that Martin touched a toggle switch and his program got changed. So, > > Martin Nyberg, the ball is in your court. Sorry. Incidentally, I've been > > playing with my program ever since and learned a lot. Many thanks. > > Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 06:13:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA19499 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:13:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA12358; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:05:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA12257 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:03:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AtvV-0002cU-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:04:57 -0800 Message-ID: <36C2B7D2.19A9D85A@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 02:58:26 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Y2K Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 267 To all: My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty programmes only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin indicated, IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help to be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes off. Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee the hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said that they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon Alaska Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may not be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator ready plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What may truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand (stay cool) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 06:58:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA20093 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:58:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA13977; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:49:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA13865 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:48:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Aucg-0004FC-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:49:34 -0800 Message-ID: <36C2C20B.437A79A2@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:42:03 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Hay field(s) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 268 Martha Wells wrote to me the other day: Our (area) hay quality has been terrible the last couple of years, but luckily, goats are foragers and they have not suffered the lack of dry roughage. (And my pastures are a little cleaner because of it also.) We have experienced (likely the same cause) a problem in our area, too. Last summer (spring, summer, fall) we had 5 months with only 4" of rain. The fields became as dry as a desert. It may be helpful to re-enact last year's discussion on how to treat grass- (and for that matter any other) crop yielding field to get better results when the rain fails (and not only Hydro). At present, (it is 3AM in the morning) it is snowing, however, in the next days we will have to lime some of our grass fields. Originally they have been forests and the pH is very, very low. We have decided to use a slow release lime, in pellet form. It can be applied on the snow and you can drive over the field(S) when they are frozen. One further advantage: it will 'wash' the lime into the top layer of the soil before the growing season is starting and will work itself into the soil slowly. It is very important that such changes do not come like an explosion so that plants can adjust. Perhaps others could report of what they are doing. Next question: How much compost? and by manure spreader. We are removing a lot of manure from the barn, inoculate it on the piles with BD Preparations (or: in the barn with Barrel compost) which will help to start the decomposition process. Now, many Swiss (intensive) farms (also BD) apply the manure relatively fresh and do get a lush grass growth. They also catch the urine (in the stable) and treat it in their large holding tanks. Many BD farms in Switzerland have put an electric stirring unit, with a wooden propeller (does not corrode), into the urine and (liquid) manure holding tanks. They stir the 'soup' in the morning and in the evening for five minutes. Of course BD Preps are added (or are being added on a regular basis). The effect is amazing: There is no smell to the soup (Jauche) and when applied to the field you get an even growth of grass. You do not burn the grass either (with an overdose of N) and there is no poisonous run off into wells and creeks. It all looks like liquid compost. Grass field management is a real science. Goats (sheep and horses, too), as far as I remember on our last farm, were very tough on our grass fields. Strip grazing was the answer then. Horses were permitted on the fields in short intervals only. As soon as the snow is gone, we need to apply our Preparations (500 for root growth) and thereafter 501 (for the development of a protein rich grass). We have failed in establishing new varieties of grasses in our fields - and we have to think of how to do it properly. The mole is missing here almost entirely. I like it very much as it works like a natural plow and turns the soil inside out. With the acidity of our soil, mosses have established themselves in some areas and it makes no sense to 'combat' the moss unless one solves the acid challenge. And if the pH is 5.4, you will quickly lose your humus layer or organic matter (for that matter....) I'd love to start a discussion on this topic. Please feel free to add your experience. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 07:17:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA20240 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA15020; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:07:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA14873 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:05:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AutV-0004n4-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:06:57 -0800 Message-ID: <36C2C649.C48CA1C2@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:00:09 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Breeding challenges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 269 With Martha's permission, I send this info to BDNOW: Unlike the Canadian bull service center you describe, our local one (now defunct) would keep the bulls they selected for service. Any bull who could produce a hefty growth rate and a small birth rate was a real winner and deserved to be kept alive. This is a beef center and possibly you're referring to the dairy aspects. I understand dairy bulls to be pretty temperamental, and very few dairies keep their own bulls. This is largely the case. However, dairy bulls often get extremely aggressive as they are being kept alone and penned in. Our 2000lbs Galloway x Hereford (called Ferdinand of course) is as tame as a cat. BUT, you never fully 'trust' a bull and not because he may be bad, but they often do not know how strong they are. The reason I got into AI was because of two reasons. (1) My farming neighbors are elderly and really can't handle even the milder mannered beef bulls easily. I'm often called this time of year to come pull a calf from a small cow, but it's getting less so each year, thank goodness. At first, they ran Herefords and just kept bull calves back from the cow herd to rebreed the next generations. Resulting in heavily inbred stock, poor growth rates, and a lot of health problems in general in the herds. When Simmental and other large beefy breeds came popular, they just bought a bull of the bigger size and bred heifers to them. HUGE mistake and a lot of cows were lost. I've shown them they could get the larger market calves from their mother cow stock without killing off the cows in the process. But, it took the stats n facts that AI can provide to show the records well. So, this has been a good asset. By law, since I'm not a vet, I'm not allowed to charge for this service, but I've been paid enough in orphan calves and 'downed' cows I brought back around to make it worth it Many thank Us,Martha. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 07:25:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA20289 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:25:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA15613; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:16:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA15561 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:15:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10Av3E-0005Ya-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:17:00 +0000 Message-ID: <36C2AA93.4383269@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:01:55 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Good weather message References: <36C2251A.38408842@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 270 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: (and here is one of them, simple) Abendrot, gutwetter Bot' (Evening red, > good weather messenger) Red sky at night shepherds delight, red sky in the morning shepherds warning. Alison From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 07:27:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA20307 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:27:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA15829; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:19:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA15578 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:16:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10Av3e-0005eX-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:17:27 +0000 Message-ID: <36C2B3FB.AF32A3EE@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:42:03 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Malarial Mosquitoes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 271 Jane My malaria net had to be soaked in Deet before hanging up (the holes were larger than usual for more ventilation). Deet is strong and I'm sure the doctors would know about it. There is a company called MASTA which specialises in mosquito nets, sprays, hats and treatment. I think they are linked to the London School of Tropical Medicine. The leaflet I have is old but if you're interested their phone no. is +44 1705 553933. They may be on the Net these days. I'm sure your doctors also know about citronella candles which keep mozzies away in the evenings. Alison Alison Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Hello Friends, > > I am asking for advice in combating malarial mosquitoes on behalf of Dr. > Yeshi Dhonden, the Tibetan doctor I was recently privileged to see, when he > was here in NYC from his clinic in Dharamsala, India and Dr. Marsha Woolf, > a naturapath who works with him. According to Dr. Marsha Woolf (of The > Tibetan Refugee Health Care Project), they are having a terrible time at > the clinic in India with what she described as "DDT resistant" malarial > mosquitoes. Apparently many people are dying of malaria there. She was > wondering if there is something that mosquito netting can be treated with > to combat the mosquitoes? > > I was wondering, further if there are any sustainable, organic, and/or > biodynamic treatments that anyone on the list is aware of that could be of > some help, not just to treat the mosquito nets, but the people and area in > general? I would imagine they need both short and long-term solutions. If > anyone has any suggestions at all, or contacts who could be of some > assistance, I would be very grateful to be able to pass this information on > to Dr. Woolf. > > Thank you in advance. > Sincerely, > Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 08:00:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA20603 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:00:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA18325; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:51:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA18213 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:50:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AvbH-0002Rl-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:52:12 -0800 Message-ID: <36C2D0DE.2B1D577@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:45:19 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: AI - Eating habits and the production of food Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 272 Juli wrote the other day: One thing that actually shocked (no pun intended) me, when I learned of it is the procedure whereby bulls are electrically induced to produce semen. This inhumanity was VERY disturbing to me and I wondered what effect this might have on the bull, the semen & resulting offspring. Ferdinand's reply: Acts of violence cannot have positive results, I believe. I remember when I was a young boy and everybody was talking about having an atomic power plant in his cellar - electricity forever, for almost free. And then, an old man I met in the mountains said, shaking his head: remember, young man, what's been invented to make war can never be used peacefully. Today, I understand. It is really true. The reason why we use electricity is caused, I think, by the fact that we eat meat without thinking what is at stake and who has to give his life (also when drinking milk). If the consumption of our food would become a conscious act, we would not eat just about anything (short of metal and plastic....) but would ask ourselves: where does it come from. With what do I unite myself here? Whom do I thank for this? Which creator spirits have been working on this? But, often, people demand that food cost nothing. Demand that it is ready and 'good' and plentiful. And industry is pushing that point. As long as we can produce quantity, we 'make money'. But the semen production via electrical means is an act of war. The bull must do something that it would not do under normal circumstances. And we have to come back to much more normal 'circumstances' or better: to a normal way of life. The way we are living now is certainly no longer normal, I think. This does not mean that we have to give up (at least for some) every comfort of the 21st Century. To the contrary. The more we return to a normal way of life (conscious eating habits, conscious dressing habits and so forth) the better life will become (for all of us). The extraction of semen by electrical means is like shaking an apple tree (and it is being done) violently, with a mechanical device. It is obvious that the semen you 'gather' has not (all) fully and properly matured. What I have described as a picture (an auric picture in the mating process) is a torn piece of (let me say: toilet) paper when you induce electricity and violence. What wants to come together in harmony is being pushed together at gun point. Put against a wall, hands up, if you don't, we'll kill U. And we know that bulls that do not produce go to the butcher's. It is difficult to say what positive end the whole action will have. And I mean: end. If we look at the next 5 years, or 10, or so, someone will definitely make money, somewhere. But it cannot cause a happy end, for nobody. But I must come back again to the eating/drinking/consumption habits of our population or better, the unconscious way we live. There is going to be a painful wake-up call in the offing......! I am sure that many of you concern yourselves with Dr. R. Steiner's lectures (not only on BD but on many spiritual aspects) I'd recommend that you read what he has to say in this connection. It is awe inspiring and healing. There is hope, no doubt. Let us treat nature with respect and love. Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 08:07:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA20686 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:07:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA18730; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:57:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA18530 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:55:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.22] (pm3shep2-163-87.intrepid.net [209.190.163.87]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA07941 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:57:09 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:56:15 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Heirloom seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 273 >Do you have a good suggestions as to where I might purchase heirloom seeds? >Jackie Dear Jackie, There are some good places such as Seed Savers and Southern Exposure. There are many others, but I'm not the one to ask. For one thing I, like Luther Burbank, don't share the viewpoints on genetics taught at our universities and in most science circles. They have the view that the genetics is fixed and is passed down unchanged from one generation to another. I've found that each generation you've got a new plant. In fact, back in '87 Barbara McClintock won the Nobel Prize in genetics for her 20 year work showing that corn mutated in every generation. Corn was the easiest of plants to prove this with because corn is monoclinic and the genetic contribution of the mother plant is identical for every kernal in the ear. Therefore the observed mutations could not be attributed to stray genetic contaminations. Proving it with tomatoes, for example, is much, much more difficult. McClintock funded her own research and conducted it with the indian corn grown in her own garden. And it took 20 years. No one else is looking and the funding is not there. The thought that plants (and animals) are mutating with every generation is anathema to gene patenters and genetic engineers. It blows their whole game and reveals what a Pandora's box genetic engineering is opening. They don't want to hear it and don't even want to think it. It boggles my mind that heirloom seed savers don't see that all those varieties had to come from somewhere. Often they sprang up in new locations in just a few years and maybe the originators knew what they did and maybe (as in my own case all my new varieties have arisen by "accident") they did not. Burbank pretty obviously knew quite well what he was doing. Rudolf Steiner gave some profound general indications in his second agriculture lecture. So heirloom seeds are good because of their diversity and naturalness, but not because they are the same plants as 100 years ago. They may be similar, but not the same. It is more important to become a seed saver yourself than to buy all heirloom seeds. They you'll end up with your own "heirloom" varities after a while. Best, Hugh Lovel From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 08:12:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA20774 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:12:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA19139; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:03:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19019 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:01:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Avlq-0006cT-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:03:07 -0800 Message-ID: <36C2D36B.BA291EED@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:56:11 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Ferdinand (not the bull) Away for a few days! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 274 Friends and countryfolks, I'll be away from the screen for five days staring tonite. So, enjoy the calm. Back on Monday or Tuesday February 15th/16th. And then I have to look after some Waldorf School - Rudolf Steiner School - students who want to learn more about BD (preparation handling, mixing, potentizing, filling into vats, ordering, invoice writing etc.) So, if you order then, my students (two girls of Grades 9 and ten) will handle the overflow.....!..... for one week. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 08:46:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA21083 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:46:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA21739; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:35:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA21612 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:34:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp266.cy-net.net [208.21.195.75]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA28840 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:49:49 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5590.EE0E03A0@FLYLO>; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:34:17 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5590.EE0E03A0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Heirloom seeds (long) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:34:15 -0600 Encoding: 46 TEXT, 108 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 275 Even the definition of heirloom varies. some say 100 years others say only 50 - 60 years old. Seeds Blum offers heirloom varieties, and many of the heritage garden centers (Old Sturbridge comes to mind) will have seeds available usually. Seed Savers Exchange, Kent Whealey, probably has the most extensive listing of heritage seeds. I recommend anyone interested in preserving garden seed to join. The nice thing there is you can find someone in your zone or locale who is growing certain things out to reoffer to the group. And the history of that variety is documented as much as possible, things you won't find in most seed catalogs. I ordered seeds from a Maine company though I'm in Texas. I realize the plants won't perform the same in my gardens as in Maine, and I have to be willing to plant it out for several generations before it's acclimated. What Hugh says is very true. I brought Habanero pepper seed back from Belize in the '70's long before they were a 'fad' pepper. Now I grow them out from that original parent, but they're not as hot as the store ones. They've mellowed some over the years, but produce good crops in our sometimes dry, hostile conditions. (Old Belize saying, mellow temper can't make hot pepper.) or something to the effect that if you're meaner than snake snot, your peppers will be off the Scoville scale on the hottest end. I try new (old) tomatoes annually, but have my old fall-back types, too. What comes to mind is a lady from Mexico who moved to Texas and brought with her the Three Sisters, her traditional corn, beans, squash seed. When she planted them in her new garden, nothing produced like she wanted, but she persisted and within a few seasons, her crops were abundant again. It takes time to build the heritage into your own plant memory. Building the soil around them is one thing of course, but you are actually asking the plant to allow it's children to conform to your needs. They are constantly adapting, and man is constantly changing them, even unknowingly. When I pick the first tomato that fruits and save seed from it, I'm encouraging that next session of tomatoes to fruit early. When I mark the last lettuce that bolts, same thing. you're always looking and making decisions like that which will affect your next gardening season, if you stay away from hybrids. Knowing your own gardening methods helps too. I know in the summer when it is 110* for days on end, I worry about our water source, and stint the garden in favor of getting plenty to the dairy herd. I know I need 'high desert' techniques and crops that can tough it out because of this tendency. Mention of Luther Burbank.. I have a copy of Harvest of the Years that was autographed for my Grandfather. I haven't read it in years, maybe it needs to be aired again. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A$-`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&)D;F]W0&5N=FER;VQI;FLN;W)G`%-- M5% `8F1N;W= 96YV:7)O;&EN:RYO`!X,`0`` M``4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````$@```&9L>6QO0'1X8WEB97(N8V]M```` M`P`&$$-K&28#``<0! D``!X`"! !````90```$5614Y42$5$149)3DE424]. M3T9(14E23$]/359!4DE%4U-/345305DQ,#!914%24T]42$524U-!64].3%DU M,"TV,%E%05)33TQ$4T5%1%-"3%5-3T9&15)32$5)4DQ/3TU605(``````@$) M$ $```"_# ``NPP``(@7``!,6D9U8.ME#@,`"@!R8W!G,3(UP M4RAU8FH%D'17L$1AZ'1E.C8D-D__40]2'_]3+U0Y,< ]HPXA2Z$ZM@Y0FU5O M5GY2.8$7`2!(/9'[!) V)#=9;UI_6X]##W>'!Q40& ;E@P`& )\$V@[WT` M`@$UX%Y290#P?0`Q@$N 8 Y0=@B0=VL+@&3/:T"#P@3P!T!E.25 #@#O<2(] M@H45`A!O!4(7(1+R#5C ;0M16, @0SI # M8'-O`8 @KD\!( W@@Q!2CY.? 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"" &``````# ````````1@`````X MA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``'A@ ` end From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 08:53:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA21147 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:53:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA22540; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:44:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd123.hotmail.com [207.82.252.187]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA22442 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:44:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 15296 invoked by uid 0); 11 Feb 1999 13:45:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990211134508.15295.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:45:07 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Internet Message Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:45:07 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 276 Dear Ferdinand, I will begin looking through my notes today and see what is there. In the meantime there are a few other sources that I can check. The methods are for the salmaniod "Rainbow Trout", but with a few modifications could be applied to Salmon as well. Experimentation must be performed. Question: I have seen various documentaries on the spawning habits of Salmon; swimming upstream to the source of waterways, spawning, then dieing. In that the case of ALL Salmon or of a large majority of them? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 09:08:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA21345 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:08:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA23779; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:59:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd110.hotmail.com [207.82.252.174]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA23495 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:56:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 13988 invoked by uid 0); 11 Feb 1999 13:57:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19990211135746.13987.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:57:46 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Malarial Mosquitoes Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:57:46 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 277 Jane Sherry, What are the conditions creating the production of the mosquitoes? Stagnant water? Mankind has been locked in a battle of treating the symptom instead of the cause for eons. These types of situations give tremendous bank accounts to chemical producers. Could the sustainable solution to the problem be in introduction of a predator to the areas with high Malaria Carring Mosquitoes; frogs, birds, fish? Just a thought. Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 09:08:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA21357 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:08:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA23818; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:59:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23674 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:58:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.46] (pm3shep1-163-46.intrepid.net [209.190.163.46]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18602 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:00:27 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE5590.EE0E03A0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:01:20 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: Heirloom seeds (long) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 278 >Mention of Luther Burbank.. I have a copy of Harvest of the Years that was >autographed for my Grandfather. I haven't read it in years, maybe it needs >to be aired again. It's interesting how Luther Burbank is being 'written out of history.' Last time I checked, Amazon carried no books BY HIM and no books ABOUT HIM. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 10:06:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA22154 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:06:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00578; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:56:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00456 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:56:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10AxYV-0004aE-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:57:27 +0000 Message-ID: <36C2EC61.F00857C6@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:42:41 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K References: <36C2B7D2.19A9D85A@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 279 This is really interesting. There is a lot of discussion over here about the Millenium Bug (in the UK) and possible upsets but Joe Bloggs in the street isn't really worried. One or two people have proposed planting a bit more of a vegetable garden this year but there's no great panic. On the radio they were saying there's no need for bulk buying. The papers have been a bit worried about aircraft crashing into each other. It just strikes me as odd that there appears to be a lot more concern and preparation in the States than in the UK over the Bug, yet the other way around for genetic engineering. Alison Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > To all: > My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty programmes > only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and > eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin indicated, > IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help to > be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes off. > Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated > that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee the > hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said that > they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon Alaska > Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may not > be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator ready > plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other > helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. > etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What may > truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand (stay > cool) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 10:18:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA22406 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:18:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA02434; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:08:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA02038 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:06:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (ascend94.netrover.com [205.209.21.105]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10108 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:07:40 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:00:49 -0500 Message-ID: <01be55cf$4fad47e0$4e15d1cd@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 280 Ferdinand : Just a quickie : re water: why 60' or more? -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:07 AM Subject: Y2K >To all: >My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty programmes >only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and >eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin indicated, >IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help to >be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes off. >Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated >that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee the >hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said that >they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon Alaska >Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may not >be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator ready >plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other >helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. >etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What may >truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand (stay >cool) > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 10:37:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23083 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:37:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA06043; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:29:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05506 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:26:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.20.90]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990211152744.DQTU8774@default>; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:27:44 +0000 Message-ID: <36C2F98F.50B3@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:38:55 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Text wrap (continued) References: <36C1AEAF.7EB5@cwcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 281 Dear Tony, What I do when I want to read a long-line post: 1.)Select the text (your select function will automatically go all the way out to the end of the long line- I use "Control C") 2.)Open up a new Email frame, addressed to myself, as if to write an Email 3.)Copy the selected text into the Email frame (I use "Control V", which copies the selected text into the Email document) This puts it into a form that I can read and/or print in its entirety, and the text will include the content of the long lines. I use this same technique to print out bold or large-format or colored Webpage text, in order not to run my printer out of ink. Regards, Linda Ray Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > > Allen (later) - How can long lines be more versatile if the postings > can't be printed out ? And if Martha's word-processing programme works > only at 130 characters per line, how on earth can she print out her work > from it ? I don't understand how a list processor works but, if all > postings are sent out to a standard format, couldn't that be tweaked to > eliminate long lines ? Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 11:41:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25623 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:41:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17403; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:32:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16920 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:30:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id LAA28859 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:32:02 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:29:51 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF72@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Y2K Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:29:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 282 allison, i sincerely believe that the difference is that we in the US can't get our minds around big, vague concepts like long-term quality of life and being involved in poltics (thus, the GE topic). but we've GOT to have our THINGS!! the thought of not having central heat and air, the thought of not being able to drive, the thought of having to rely on ourselves, not our system is TERRIFYING. we have forgotten how to be reliable. so that leaves us nothing to rely on but our power grid, our infrastructure. without these we must face another big, vague concept: how many ways we are wrong and need to change. yuck! i'm in america up to my eyeballs. olivia > ---------- > From: ALISON EADES > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 9:42 AM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: Y2K > > This is really interesting. There is a lot of discussion over here about > the > Millenium Bug (in the UK) and possible upsets but Joe Bloggs in the street > isn't really worried. One or two people have proposed planting a bit more > of > a vegetable garden this year but there's no great panic. On the radio they > were saying there's no need for bulk buying. The papers have been a bit > worried about aircraft crashing into each other. It just strikes me as odd > that there appears to be a lot more concern and preparation in the States > than in the UK over the Bug, yet the other way around for genetic > engineering. > > Alison > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > To all: > > My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty programmes > > only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and > > eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin indicated, > > IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help to > > be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes off. > > Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated > > that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee the > > hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said that > > they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon Alaska > > Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may not > > be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator ready > > plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other > > helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. > > etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What may > > truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand (stay > > cool) > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 11:41:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25631 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:41:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17286; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:32:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd98.hotmail.com [207.82.252.162]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16744 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:29:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 18277 invoked by uid 0); 11 Feb 1999 16:30:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19990211163046.18276.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:30:46 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Internet Message Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:30:46 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 283 Dear Ferdinand, You have brought up an interesting point I would like to comment on. This is good news. Good news as long as the cultural values of the First Nation are still in place and that these people are still able to negotiate and with the nature spirits. Through-out this area of land that we call the North American Continent, prior to European Arrival, you find Native Peoples living in concentrations of varing degree. Why? The answer is simple, yet complex; say in this case two fold. It seems that their concentrations were highest where members of the salmaniod family spawns. These areas of spawning have noted characteristics since the beginning of time. These are the fabled areas where heaven and earth are married. The meandering beginning of these streams almost seem to be the place of where etheric flows from heaven meet the upflowing currents of the earth. Hydrogen of EArth meeting Hydrogen of sky, consolodating new form. This is the chosen place of salmon & trout spawn. To some it may appear that those lovely creatures have fallen from some distant star, indicating to us... where life begins. Yet, what did the Europeans do. As the fish disappeared, so did the original in-habitants. The original caretakers of the life forming influences of this continent. As Industry, with its own version of reality moves across this land, it leaves in its wake only distruction. The profits they make only benefit a few at the top. Look, see what the destruction has been in Poland. Look at the devastation in all of the Soviet Block areas. See the Massetu Bay area. And yet they all proclaim, as always; "this is the way it really is", celebrating their new religion of death and greed. They carry with them their mindless apocils who cannot think. They can only repeat the slogans calculated by those at the top... they too are victims... but they don't know it. And now those at the top have even imagined they now own the air. My thought for those who would create the "old river flow". It cannot be the same, but can only immulate what once was. And who knows, mabey they can help it to become a little better that it was before. Encouraging it to flow its' life waters to an underserving world, that is as long as those philistine giants have had their heads removed. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 11:46:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25719 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:46:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18573; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:37:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from templar.fgi.net (root@templar.fgi.net [206.101.112.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18209 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:36:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from doreen (usr2tc200.fgi.net [208.235.50.200]) by templar.fgi.net (8.9.0/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA29186 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:37:38 -0600 Message-ID: <004401be55dc$d23e0ac0$c832ebd0@doreen> From: "Doreen Howard" To: Subject: Re: Heirloom seeds Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:37:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 284 Hugh Lovel wrote (in part): >In fact, back in '87 Barbara McClintock won the Nobel Prize in genetics for >her 20 year work showing that corn mutated in every generation. Corn was >the easiest of plants to prove this with because corn is monoclinic and the >genetic contribution of the mother plant is identical for every kernal in >the ear. Therefore the observed mutations could not be attributed to stray >genetic contaminations. Proving it with tomatoes, for example, is much, >much more difficult. McClintock funded her own research and conducted it >with the indian corn grown in her own garden. And it took 20 years. No one >else is looking and the funding is not there. I've seen such mutation in three generations of Southern Night tomatoes in Texas, where the weather is very humid and hot, and the growing conditions are rigorous. The first season I planted SN, which is a determinate black tomato with potato-leaf foliage, it performed as advertised. The second season, when saved seed was planted by me and scientists at the Texas A&M Research Station in Uvalde, TX (I gave them the seed for a trial), we both found that SN was a semi-determinate. The third season planting with saved seed revealed that the SN was now indeterminate. I did not grow out this third generation, but Martha Wells of this list did. I gave her the seed, because I was in the process of moving from Texas to Illinois. This is the most dramatic shift in tomatoes I've seen, but I have witnessed disease and temperature tolerence build in succeeding generations. Doreen Howard Zone 5b--Centrall Illinois From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 12:14:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26352 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:14:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA24179; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:05:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23543 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:03:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0208.direct.ca ([204.244.83.24] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AzXb-0004ta-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:04:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36C30BE4.FE1BD791@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:57:08 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Re: lastly Goat names References: <01BE5597.88E9D100@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 285 Dear Martha, You are right, (and almost spelled it right - the same problem I have with English from time to time) Your goats are called Oberhasli Brienzersee. Let me say something to this name. Oberhasli (thal or tal) is a wonderful area in the Kanton Bern. And Brienzersee it the lake (see) where you find the town of Brienz. Well worth a visit, I think. Near there is Ballenberg and if anybody wants to visit a house musem (a place where she/he can study dozens and dozens of old mountain building etc.) that's the place to go. Perhaps they have a Website. Yes, the Oberhasli goats are exactly the ones you have on your Website and they make me, just a little bit, homesick - although, I am often much more 'homesick' for Goode Olde Englande where I spend six year. Thanks Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > Before I have to shut this down and get outside, I wanted to mention the > goats I raise are Oberhasli. You may have seen them and not known the name. > Bay, brown, mahogany with black face stripes, leg stripes. I'm not going > to spell this right, but the whole name is Oberhasli Birenserzee? Which is > probably just the place they originated from. When they hit the US in 1936, > they were dubbed Swiss Alpines, since they came from Switzerland. But the > true name is Oberhasli. > A letter from the list admin stating I'm sending winmail.dat attachments to > my notes to the list. So, I'm going back into lurk mode until I can figure > out which buttons corrupted this time. > > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 12:17:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26411 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:17:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA24811; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:08:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24224 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:06:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0208.direct.ca ([204.244.83.24] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AzaO-0007Ay-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:07:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36C30C91.2387BFDA@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:00:01 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump References: <01be55cf$4fad47e0$4e15d1cd@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 286 Sorry for that omission. That's the depth of our well and a bit less to the surface of our river. And just thinking of it IF you have a handpump, the limit of pumping it up to the surface may be at 100' ? Does anybody know from what max depth you can handpump. Best regards Ferdinand manfred palmer wrote: > Ferdinand : Just a quickie : re water: why 60' or more? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:07 AM > Subject: Y2K > > >To all: > >My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty programmes > >only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and > >eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin indicated, > >IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help to > >be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes off. > >Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated > >that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee the > >hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said that > >they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon Alaska > >Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may not > >be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator ready > >plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other > >helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. > >etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What may > >truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand (stay > >cool) > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 12:23:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26580 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:23:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA26016; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:15:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25682 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:13:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0208.direct.ca ([204.244.83.24] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Azhb-0000gq-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:15:00 -0800 Message-ID: <36C30E4F.FB98B35E@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:07:27 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K References: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF72@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 287 Dear Olivia, Me to in Canada am in up to my eye-balls. Yet, how could I reach the store(s) that sell me tractor parts, gasoline, (toilet paper I can use grass) but other necessities without totally relying on the infrastructure. I mean, we can survive here without problems (no heat though) for many months, but in the end, we would have to totally redesign our house and life. We are living in an oil/hydro society to the nth degree. A powerloss of 6 days some 7 years ago brought it home when, at a violent storm of minus 25 the electricity went off. All our pipes froze. The indoor plants went belly up. We carried water from the river and, at times sat in our car to get warm because even the fire place was not enough to warm us up. 10 year old house, 10 year old system - next time I'd build somewhat more 'rational'. The answer lies in this: That's Y2K(an) do it. Best not to be too alone at that time - with reliable partner(s) Regards Ferdinand James.Olivia wrote: > allison, > i sincerely believe that the difference is that we in the US can't get our > minds around big, vague concepts like long-term quality of life and being > involved in poltics (thus, the GE topic). but we've GOT to have our THINGS!! > the thought of not having central heat and air, the thought of not being > able to drive, the thought of having to rely on ourselves, not our system is > TERRIFYING. we have forgotten how to be reliable. so that leaves us nothing > to rely on but our power grid, our infrastructure. without these we must > face another big, vague concept: how many ways we are wrong and need to > change. > yuck! i'm in america up to my eyeballs. > olivia > > > ---------- > > From: ALISON EADES > > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 9:42 AM > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Subject: Re: Y2K > > > > This is really interesting. There is a lot of discussion over here about > > the > > Millenium Bug (in the UK) and possible upsets but Joe Bloggs in the street > > isn't really worried. One or two people have proposed planting a bit more > > of > > a vegetable garden this year but there's no great panic. On the radio they > > were saying there's no need for bulk buying. The papers have been a bit > > worried about aircraft crashing into each other. It just strikes me as odd > > that there appears to be a lot more concern and preparation in the States > > than in the UK over the Bug, yet the other way around for genetic > > engineering. > > > > Alison > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > To all: > > > My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty programmes > > > only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and > > > eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin indicated, > > > IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help to > > > be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes off. > > > Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated > > > that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee the > > > hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said that > > > they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon Alaska > > > Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may not > > > be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator ready > > > plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other > > > helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. > > > etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What may > > > truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand (stay > > > cool) > > > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 12:45:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26993 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:45:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA29371; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:36:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28897 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:33:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0106.direct.ca ([204.244.83.6] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10B01I-00047C-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:35:20 -0800 Message-ID: <36C31311.E175FBF0@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:27:45 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Internet Message on Stream and Salmon References: <19990211163046.18276.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 288 Dear Michael, I am, indeed, living in a very blessed part of this continent. Your report if full of fine observations and good news. The ether of the earth meeting the ether of the sky. The meandering of the river where the natives have settled. I wish you could tell us more about the fish from your point of view and (as I gather) with Anthroposophy in mind. That will help (at least) me to come to a new relationship with the river. She is a good lady but, as ladies are..........., you better never think that she is the same for two days in a row......! REgards and thanks Ferdinand Michael Smith wrote: > Dear Ferdinand, > > You have brought up an interesting point I would like to comment on. > > higher up and has caused endless problems with the rearing of salmon - > not the least with unseasonal flooding, extreme supplies of water, > reduction of food in the water and a host of other problems. BC Hydro > was taken to court by the local First Nation (Indian Band) and had to > agree (after 45 years of running the river their way) that they, as of > January st, 1998, have to imitate the 'old water flow' of the time > before the dam was built. > > Regards Ferdinand> > > This is good news. Good news as long as the cultural values of the > First Nation are still in place and that these people are still able to > negotiate and with the nature spirits. > > Through-out this area of land that we call the North American Continent, > prior to European Arrival, you find Native Peoples living in > concentrations of varing degree. Why? The answer is simple, yet > complex; say in this case two fold. > > It seems that their concentrations were highest where members of the > salmaniod family spawns. These areas of spawning have noted > characteristics since the beginning of time. These are the fabled areas > where heaven and earth are married. The meandering beginning of these > streams almost seem to be the place of where etheric flows from heaven > meet the upflowing currents of the earth. Hydrogen of EArth meeting > Hydrogen of sky, consolodating new form. This is the chosen place of > salmon & trout spawn. To some it may appear that those lovely creatures > have fallen from some distant star, indicating to us... where life > begins. > > Yet, what did the Europeans do. As the fish disappeared, so did the > original in-habitants. The original caretakers of the life forming > influences of this continent. As Industry, with its own version of > reality moves across this land, it leaves in its wake only distruction. > The profits they make only benefit a few at the top. > > Look, see what the destruction has been in Poland. Look at the > devastation in all of the Soviet Block areas. See the Massetu Bay area. > And yet they all proclaim, as always; "this is the way it really is", > celebrating their new religion of death and greed. They carry with them > their mindless apocils who cannot think. They can only repeat the > slogans calculated by those at the top... they too are victims... but > they don't know it. And now those at the top have even imagined they > now own the air. > > My thought for those who would create the "old river flow". It cannot > be the same, but can only immulate what once was. And who knows, mabey > they can help it to become a little better that it was before. > Encouraging it to flow its' life waters to an underserving world, that > is as long as those philistine giants have had their heads removed. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 12:46:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27019 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:45:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA29470; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:36:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28935 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:34:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.22]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:44:39 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:35:43 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: RE: Heirloom seeds (long) Message-ID: <49B2899CFD2C7B0A8525671500609A91.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 289 <> Ah, but Allan, there's always Greg Willis! :-) Sorry couldn't resist! JS From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 13:08:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27412 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:08:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA02998; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:00:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02536 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:58:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.17.92]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990211175928.FHMU8774@default>; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:59:28 +0000 Message-ID: <36C310EA.7C89@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:18:34 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: seeds References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 290 Hi Allan, I myself wasn't able to attend this year, sorry to say. My Fla. State Licenses all had to be renewed by 1/31. Since I am also a Continuing Ed Provider, I not only had to attend Cont. Ed., I have also a great demand to provide it for others who need renewal. Unfortunately, Bob had set the date for the Conference on the same weekend. Some folks who were there: Hugh Lovel (author, A Biodynamic Farm), Joey Korn (a wonderful dowser, teacher, and person), Harvey Lisle (author, Enlivened Rock Powders, longtime BD foundational person, accomplished Chemist and dowser) was there, an associate of JPI was there whose name, I think, is Lee McWhorter, also Hunter Lilly. I can assure you that the conference was well-done, but can't offer firsthand experiential feedback this year. I was quite disappointed that the timing did not permit me to attend. Last year I was there, though-- The conference was outstanding, and I cannot recommend it highly enough. Bob Luzader, the farmer who hosts this annual conference, is a natural, practical hands-on kind of a guy. He likes to make sure that people get the point, and know what they're doing, by getting practice at it if possible, too (Experience is indeed the best teacher, eh?). And he has *wonderfu* produce. I'll be up in Eustis sometime around the end of March, and will post again whatever's happening then. Finally, my apologies for the delay in replying to you, Allan. I am on the road pretty often, and sometimes I don't get back to the Web for days at a clip. I felt it important to post notice of the conference, though, and will continue to do so, whenever I can. Regards, Linda ********************************************** Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > Linda - How was the Florida BD Conference? -Allan > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 13:08:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27420 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:08:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA03115; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:01:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02621 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-4-p65.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.65]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA31092 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:00:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C317B7.70522F0@seattle2000.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:47:39 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump References: <01be55cf$4fad47e0$4e15d1cd@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 291 Mr. Palmer, I believe Ferdinand is referring to the problem manual pumps have raising water from a deep well. The '60 feet could be the deepest he has heard of a manual pump functioning. If you have a deeper well, you need an electric pump. On the subject of pumps, if anyone knows of a good source for manual pumps, I would love to hear from them. Martin Nyberg manfred palmer wrote: > Ferdinand : Just a quickie : re water: why 60' or more? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:07 AM > Subject: Y2K > > >To all: > >My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty programmes > >only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and > >eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin indicated, > >IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help to > >be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes off. > >Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated > >that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee the > >hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said that > >they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon Alaska > >Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may not > >be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator ready > >plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other > >helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. > >etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What may > >truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand (stay > >cool) > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 13:17:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27558 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:17:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04138; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:06:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03941 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:06:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp269.cy-net.net [208.21.195.78]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01885 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:21:38 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE55B6.E5628340@FLYLO>; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:06:03 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE55B6.E5628340@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Y2K (test post) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:06:02 -0600 Encoding: 18 TEXT, 80 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 292 This is a test venture, I don't know exactly WHAT extensions this mail server will pile onto this. John (husband) is 'almost' convinced that nothing will happen other than we'll be w/out some electricity for a couple of days. I've gone to some of the US military web pages and some of them are borderline panicked over it. A cousin works at NASA and they're NOT happy about their own computer systems. I've heard mention everything from 'save food' to 'hoarding is against the law and will be confiscated by the National Guard, your neighbors'. To everyone with computers, I'd advise going to many sites that talk about this topic and forming your own opinions. I did put in a larger garden, I am hatching out more eggs than normal, I DID breed a few extra does for bartering purposes if necessary. But truly prepared? not a chance! I actually think panic will be the worst problem. People stockpiling goods and driving prices up on stuff they can't use in months. Saving fuel is very dangerous, drawing funds from the bank, pointless. Know your neighbors, and be willing to help them when the time comes. martha (tx) begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@,2`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&)D;F]W0&5N=FER;VQI;FLN;W)G`%-- M5% `8F1N;W= 96YV:7)O;&EN:RYO# $````%````4TU44 `````> M`!\,`0```!(```!F;'EL;T!T>&-Y8F5R+F-O;0````,`!A#..L#3`P`'$( # M```>``@0`0```&4```!42$E325-!5$535%9%3E154D4L241/3E1+3D]715A! M0U1,65=(051%6%1%3E-)3TY35$A)4TU!24Q315)615)724Q,4$E,14].5$]4 M2$E32D](3BA(55-"04Y$*4E304Q-3U-4``````(!"1 !````NP<``+<'```\ M#P``3%I&=<56A&H#``H`D;]/\>$AQ_($\@#1^/';\<#Q!@_#(X)=HF M\2:O)[D;]"?BOR9/*A\IW2E?)X\K5#D.4!\NI# !*",P``*"!P"Y R/S*C"&#K,I + M@&4QH'8Y8 % ,YN_## T9"@`-T $H N 9R?QZ33F8F$7$&0"(#6@-4;G,= S MD#N1(#$Q,PY0-I__-Z\XOP!1.?P`H#1N/'\]AO\Q) _ /H\_GT"O#E Y[T,/ MVT0?/;,S`H(3$&,V8$NADS.0/;!T:3F0($0!$*AA=6P%0% *P&$)P.!A<&@@ M1@(A-B0E0.AF:2T/D#@!0#DP4#/K1P\RHV(+('()4%)2%J#94E)W-"5!%P!P M`=!-AT M93HV)#9/_U$/4A__4R]4.3' /:,.(4NA.K8.4)M5;U9^4CF!%P$@2#V1^P20 M-B0W66]:?UN/7)TY#R]=OP^0:7 (T&(*L'0X_TGZ#U1&$%^_8,9J`&'0"U"\ M>2]/0%RP"Q%B17,V)/\H`&,_9$]E7URO5$]K7VQO[VUU5])7=%BI.6^_,S\# M,!UILSESGW2O>J!$;V/^=0> `C %T$\`3-9RI$VU8PQ@"5!C9C)[J$U12.QY M< 209W%K&@%XTG@P]WAP<5$!@&Y8, !@"?!-H.]]``(!->!>4F4`\'T`,8!+ M@& .4'8(D'=K"X!DSVM @\($\ = 93DE0 X`[W$B/8*%%0(0;P5"%R$2\@U8 MP&T+45C ($,Z7.I<5P!O3N%M3S #$ >038? 30W@`V!S;P& (*Y/`2 -X(,0 M7(EV10# ]0,0+DMP=(#P%Q!X<#4A[6=R> % @B%N,= :\(L4/4XT8P,@$O,` M@ 60;';_0:%&T YP->"-H@&0`"".,O^$$7U!`<&-H1;@#W ``$;0\PS0`9 @ M+AH2C9@.4(Y2_TYP>,".SX_?D.\/P$;0!8&WDH^3GY2O;&M 1M!LDD_[EP^8 M%2F1'(4!E?^:WY@3^&(@* *1F^^-XUE0F9__GE^?;Z!_CA!C$*'"CI^C+_^D M/Y$<* "ASZ=/J%^I;XX0_W@`ID^KWZSOK?0*^0,P>"^C>3]ZS7M4: 0`(+;1 M=YA@6, Q<"!GT (P"'!E4"P@22!+<2<%0&L=LY$@-7 `T+/P>2!7^$A!5+CQ M6, `@0(@!"!6=+;"BH(@%Q!R8?$@50/P; ,@<(AQ( (A;T&Z[L6(3@'?^+V=!NQ #;RP"H5))_U-\6<"(!. O%'"8\1!P-'T(%4% M\&T#$$W "L"Y8/?!<*U0"K!G!Y&]@<7ZB$#_"L 3@ ;@"R" ;^D`U*]\$903?&-AC%DOG"\42=H;PL1^SW"MP)G"W&W<<:""V 'X/_( M(KN3P=&^D6[0A*%8P#4@=F*Y8,:"3EBPNC$'0"#L1W4+$;@0>0AAOW#.D/.U M<,EQ\P%?0T53%DM<#\+J SP=SN!$G-2"T\/^#P!-QQ8 ]PKQ1`X&Y8 "0 MY[=1OR0!D&QKS@>VT;Q0_;O@8\@3@I(]PM@3SM+>,?\#`+I!T!&X0#41ST&V M\ .@>YA@"V!RQ^ %P-0PR9%N_[@2B#&_01;0/<+"(@1@R4'X96=GW+,#H!-0 M->*X$OA$243!P G1VP'#8 ?1_S5Q3L"X00>1PW)+, `@!G'S/='/0')P$V&V MX<10-6"OB; $$,=!O,!"SD)R3F#/N6 7<$; R3%D/[]RPZ+[E[&)L"'B0K/@ MU["[L-:R?X"ARA355\:"R]&W<1=P;^<"8(<@O,!09=XPO $Q#G4\,!!Y'#\+PA[J%U_P$@S..^@ !PN(&U(!. LU&[!& " M,&B\L080\$-F"E#_`R"VT=%RQ&$/< 20RW&X$/]Q0-3P\Y2",.:1TB+&@KUQ MOFNX$.? 5R$QH;RQ2[C"_]@0O, *A;*TLW^TCP5 >W\`P D@%N"M8 S0O;#\-GT"``"P``,`$! ` M`````P`1$ `````#`( 0_____T `!S!@"&,QZ%6^`4 `"#!@"&,QZ%6^`0L` M`( (( 8``````, ```````!&``````.%`````````P`"@ @@!@``````P `` M`````$8`````$(4````````#``6 "" &``````# ````````1@````!2A0`` MMPT``!X`)8 (( 8``````, ```````!&`````%2%```!````! ```#@N, `# M`": "" &``````# ````````1@`````!A0````````L`+X (( 8``````, ` M``````!&``````Z%`````````P`P@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````$84` M```````#`#* "" &``````# ````````1@`````8A0```````!X`08 (( 8` M`````, ```````!&`````#:%```!`````0`````````>`$* "" &``````# M````````1@`````WA0```0````$`````````'@!#@ @@!@``````P `````` M`$8`````.(4```$````!`````````!X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ``````P`- '-/TW``"-FX4` ` end From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 13:17:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27566 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:17:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04735; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:09:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04347 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:07:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-4-p65.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.65]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA32407 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:09:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C319D9.F6804CD@seattle2000.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:56:45 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K References: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF72@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 293 Olivia, Not that I am a flag waving red neck patriot republican, but you might consider that the advanced preparations Americans are making for Y2K (inadequate though they are), could be the result of our foresight and wisdom. In my community, we Americans are moving with compassion and determination to help people who might suffer. And after all, the technology which has the "bug" was manufactured and designed here in the US to the largest degree, spurred by the creativity of American culture. Stupid mistake for sure, but living in the city that spawned Microsoft and Boeing, I can tell you that American genius puts many around the world in a state of awe. For that I am proud. Now we have a responsibility to lead the world in repairing the bug because we caused it to a large extent. Martin Nyberg "James.Olivia" wrote: > allison, > i sincerely believe that the difference is that we in the US can't get our > minds around big, vague concepts like long-term quality of life and being > involved in poltics (thus, the GE topic). but we've GOT to have our THINGS!! > the thought of not having central heat and air, the thought of not being > able to drive, the thought of having to rely on ourselves, not our system is > TERRIFYING. we have forgotten how to be reliable. so that leaves us nothing > to rely on but our power grid, our infrastructure. without these we must > face another big, vague concept: how many ways we are wrong and need to > change. > yuck! i'm in america up to my eyeballs. > olivia > > > ---------- > > From: ALISON EADES > > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 9:42 AM > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Subject: Re: Y2K > > > > This is really interesting. There is a lot of discussion over here about > > the > > Millenium Bug (in the UK) and possible upsets but Joe Bloggs in the street > > isn't really worried. One or two people have proposed planting a bit more > > of > > a vegetable garden this year but there's no great panic. On the radio they > > were saying there's no need for bulk buying. The papers have been a bit > > worried about aircraft crashing into each other. It just strikes me as odd > > that there appears to be a lot more concern and preparation in the States > > than in the UK over the Bug, yet the other way around for genetic > > engineering. > > > > Alison > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > To all: > > > My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty programmes > > > only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and > > > eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin indicated, > > > IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help to > > > be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes off. > > > Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated > > > that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee the > > > hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said that > > > they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon Alaska > > > Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may not > > > be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator ready > > > plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other > > > helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. > > > etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What may > > > truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand (stay > > > cool) > > > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 13:35:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27911 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:35:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA07977; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:25:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07755 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:24:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp269.cy-net.net [208.21.195.78]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA04491 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:40:06 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE55B9.7959EDC0@FLYLO>; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:24:30 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE55B9.7959EDC0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Y2K Off, water pump Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:24:29 -0600 Encoding: 7 TEXT, 69 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 294 E-bay had one (hand pump) up recently (look in garden / tools / ) for $25, I think but it required a leather gasket, so I'd presume it was quite old. Sears Farm & Ranch catalog used to carry things like hand pumps, hand grain mills, and may not be one of the sources people think of for 'y2k' gear. If you go to someone like Cumberland General Store, they already have a 7 month backlog at least on hand grain mills. martha (tx) begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AX2`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&)D;F]W0&5N=FER;VQI;FLN;W)G`%-- M5% `8F1N;W= 96YV:7)O;&EN:RYO`' ``0```!@```!213H@63)+($]F9BP@=V%T97(@<'5M< `"`7$` M`0```!8````!OE7KPRP=C%&+P:<1TK$1`,#P*6@A```>`!X,`0````4```!3 M3510`````!X`'PP!````$@```&9L>6QO0'1X8WEB97(N8V]M`````P`&$'7^ M9+ #``<04P$``!X`"! !````90```$4M0D%92$%$3TY%*$A!3D1054U0*550 M4D5#14Y43%DH3$]/2TE.1T%21$5.+U1/3TQ3+RE&3U(D,C4L251(24Y+0E54 M251215%525)%1$%,14%42$521T%32T54+%-/24104D4``````@$)$ $```#! 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"" &``````# ```````` M1@`````XA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( `````#``TT &_3<``/.= ` end From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 14:10:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28805 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:10:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15690; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:58:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd127.hotmail.com [207.82.252.191]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15239 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:56:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 20780 invoked by uid 0); 11 Feb 1999 18:57:26 -0000 Message-ID: <19990211185726.20779.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:57:25 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Internet Message on Stream and Salmon Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:57:25 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 295 Dear Ferdinand, I am honored & humbled by your request. The meandering I believe can be brought about. No doubt this art is hidden in the "art of porch setting". Yes, Yes, it would be necessary to try to understand her. She does alter her character from day to day, but in a sense stays the same. Her apparent changes to us is her way of communicating to us. When we respond to the changes she requires for life, she rewards us with vision and might. When we respond with things that cause death, her disipline is found in vishous of wraith. The fish people you ask are flighty at first. understand ma meander and you'll win dar trust. Great teachers are they for da one who can see, tha mystries water so cool & so clear And when ya can wins their confidence clear, sees you a comin - water break'n as near. fins above water as gentle hands say we miss you, don't touch us or we'll fly away. a bird in da water appearn as such flyin n circles and wait'n til dusk. And when dis cage open and fish swimin round, a hawk is a screechin 'cause he likes that sound. So a bird of air a eaten bird of da water and a bird of da water eatn bird of da air. ah but laddi first please take off that hair and a little bakin wouldn't hurt either with skin taken away choppen in squares is da fish way. Listen to their mother, within her they swim Can ya her, then listen with thine ear wid'in. She's a talkin all time, did ya know one that wouldn't? tell'n ya stuff that she cannot do a superior tuft is a bringin ya to. Treat her real kind, she's love of the world. makin and leaven all the day long a commin each morning and singin er song. Listen, yea listen to it fallin down over dem stones and round and a round - fallin thru air and air goin down. Nettle in cage of Courtneys' divine, Helpen us much and Steiner did say. The Clairity of man was never known tal, to help us to heal the mother of all.. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 14:13:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28946 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:13:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA17528; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:05:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA16408 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:01:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id OAA05708 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:02:30 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:00:20 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF79@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Y2K Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:00:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 296 the creativity you write about sounds wonderful (though i'm sorry i can't raise much enthusiasm for efforts like microsoft and boeing as i'm a supporter of local ingenuity and global humility, taking better care of our planet than to suppose we all need MS Word and a quick trip around the world). no offense i hope. i do believe in creativitiy. that's exactly why i have such disdain for much of what i've seen here around me. it's a world, for many of us, that doesn't require us to think, doesn't require us to be responsible. i should know, i'm a recovering moron. (no comments, please -- i'm still recovering) :-) so here's to Y2K fears, and to those humans awakened by the whole thing! awakened to reach out and prepare, talk to the neighbors... (for those who sit with guns in hand behind the gates of stockpiled houses haven't changed one bit) feeling aggressive today (i've been eating meat again) olivia > ---------- > From: Martin Nyberg > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 12:56 PM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: Y2K > > Olivia, > Not that I am a flag waving red neck patriot republican, but you might > consider > that the advanced preparations Americans are making for Y2K (inadequate > though > they are), could be the result of our foresight and wisdom. In my > community, > we Americans are moving with compassion and determination to help people > who > might suffer. And after all, the technology which has the "bug" was > manufactured and designed here in the US to the largest degree, spurred by > the > creativity of American culture. Stupid mistake for sure, but living in > the > city that spawned Microsoft and Boeing, I can tell you that American > genius > puts many around the world in a state of awe. For that I am proud. Now > we > have a responsibility to lead the world in repairing the bug because we > caused > it to a large extent. > > Martin Nyberg > > > "James.Olivia" wrote: > > > allison, > > i sincerely believe that the difference is that we in the US can't get > our > > minds around big, vague concepts like long-term quality of life and > being > > involved in poltics (thus, the GE topic). but we've GOT to have our > THINGS!! > > the thought of not having central heat and air, the thought of not being > > able to drive, the thought of having to rely on ourselves, not our > system is > > TERRIFYING. we have forgotten how to be reliable. so that leaves us > nothing > > to rely on but our power grid, our infrastructure. without these we must > > face another big, vague concept: how many ways we are wrong and need to > > change. > > yuck! i'm in america up to my eyeballs. > > olivia > > > > > ---------- > > > From: ALISON EADES > > > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 9:42 AM > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > Subject: Re: Y2K > > > > > > This is really interesting. There is a lot of discussion over here > about > > > the > > > Millenium Bug (in the UK) and possible upsets but Joe Bloggs in the > street > > > isn't really worried. One or two people have proposed planting a bit > more > > > of > > > a vegetable garden this year but there's no great panic. On the radio > they > > > were saying there's no need for bulk buying. The papers have been a > bit > > > worried about aircraft crashing into each other. It just strikes me as > odd > > > that there appears to be a lot more concern and preparation in the > States > > > than in the UK over the Bug, yet the other way around for genetic > > > engineering. > > > > > > Alison > > > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > > To all: > > > > My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty > programmes > > > > only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and > > > > eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin > indicated, > > > > IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help > to > > > > be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes > off. > > > > Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated > > > > that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee > the > > > > hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said > that > > > > they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon > Alaska > > > > Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may > not > > > > be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator > ready > > > > plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other > > > > helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. > > > > etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What > may > > > > truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand > (stay > > > > cool) > > > > > > > > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 14:46:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA29532 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:46:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23622; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23132 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:33:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (tor-pm-1-5.netrover.com [205.209.27.5]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19979 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:35:25 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:30:08 -0500 Message-ID: <01be55f4$ef9122c0$4e15d1cd@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 297 Hi Martin,Ferdinand: I am including A letter I just sent to a tech. expert re:water supply alternatives. I just want enough water for transplanting time etc.[Idont regularly irrigate] and I can't afford many of the other options. Here may be useful a connection for many out there: http://www.deeprock.com 1-800-633-8774 in Opelika, Alabama. I just confirmed that these suppliers are backordered till march 15 because of the y2k response, for their traditional cast iron hand pumps.,and they supply other distributors.It would be smart to check local backwoods hardware or pump stores for old stock as soon as you can. .....The pump alone is listed at $359. without sucker rod or 1.25" drop pipe. model 11ha will pump from 100', and model 11hb will pump from 200'. That , i'm told will fit in 2" casing. If this is true, it is an improvement compared to my previous info that the casing had to be 4" or more for the suction device at the bottom to work. I'll confirm that sometime soon. Good luck. ......manfred Hi : Ysaid that you might be able to help me with my garden water source. It is the following situation :Using a portable mini drill rig, I drilled with a 4" bit, to 49'. inserted 2" pvc with 5' slit screen section at bottom. water level came up to 32' from the surface.I had not poured down any pea gravel on the outside or inside of the 2" pvc. There is fine sand through the bottom 15'. I have no electricity, so i used a gasmotor compressor to try to blow the water up the pvc...... using a 1"pvc pipe just through to the bottom of a 1.9" x 6" section of abs, and all the way to the surface and beyond several feet into a barrel. Through this 6" abs section , I also ran a .5" air hose from the compressor down and hanging 7' below the bottom of the section. With both pipes in place, I sprayed foam around them inside the section, creating a plug to direct the spurts up the 1" pipe. But of course the "plug" had no outer seals, and therefore no absolute pressure. I positioned this assembly at various heights in the water table, but at any level it only spurted -quite strongly, at a constant 30# pressure, but very sporadic- as the blowby water sank down again past the plug. It took 30 min. for 30 gallons. Also, I don't know what kind of flow is there. I realize that I must have lost volume by forcing water out through the screen too. Obviously, I havent finessed the operative principles at first attempt. [If you can describe/recommend an inexpensive technique for utilizing the air, it would be great, because we would like to use all manner of alternate tech. in our forming community....as well as for ground source heat pumps.] I' m aware of the options of: drilling wth a new 6" bit and inserting a 3" submersible pump. Or : finding an old fashioned 2" jet pump seal/venturi assembly and surface pump.......both generator-run. I'm only after a several barrels a day, but efficiently. Thanks for any time you may have for this..... REGARDS, ............ MANFRED PALMER........... villager@netrover.com -----Original Message----- From: Martin Nyberg To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 1:02 PM Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump >Mr. Palmer, >I believe Ferdinand is referring to the problem manual pumps have raising >water from a deep well. The '60 feet could be the deepest he has heard of a >manual pump functioning. >If you have a deeper well, you need an electric pump. >On the subject of pumps, if anyone knows of a good source for manual pumps, >I would love to hear from them. > >Martin Nyberg > >manfred palmer wrote: > >> Ferdinand : Just a quickie : re water: why 60' or more? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ferdinand Vondruska >> To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics >> Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:07 AM >> Subject: Y2K >> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 15:26:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00771 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:26:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA01789; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:17:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01175 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:14:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-4-p65.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.65]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09741 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:15:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C33778.D4CEACF9@seattle2000.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:03:10 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump References: <01be55f4$ef9122c0$4e15d1cd@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 298 Mr. Palmer, Thanks for the info. I actually own a DeepRock hydra drill but have not used it yet. I did not see hand-pumps on the web site. Martin Nyberg manfred palmer wrote: > Hi Martin,Ferdinand: I am including A letter I just sent to a tech. expert > re:water supply alternatives. I just want enough water for transplanting > time etc.[Idont regularly irrigate] > and I can't afford many of the other options. > Here may be useful a connection for many out there: http://www.deeprock.com > 1-800-633-8774 in Opelika, Alabama. I just confirmed that these suppliers > are backordered till march 15 because of the y2k response, for their > traditional cast iron hand pumps.,and they supply other distributors.It > would be smart to check local backwoods hardware or pump stores for old > stock as soon as you can. .....The pump alone is listed at $359. without > sucker rod or 1.25" drop pipe. model 11ha will pump from 100', and model > 11hb will pump from 200'. > That , i'm told will fit in 2" casing. If this is true, it is an improvement > compared to my previous info that the casing had to be 4" or more for the > suction device at the bottom to work. I'll confirm that sometime soon. Good > luck. ......manfred > > Hi : > Ysaid that you might be able to help me with my garden water source. > It is the following situation :Using a portable mini drill rig, I drilled > with a 4" bit, to 49'. inserted 2" pvc with 5' slit screen section at > bottom. water level came up to 32' from the surface.I had not poured down > any pea gravel on the outside or inside of the 2" pvc. > There is fine sand through the bottom 15'. > > I have no electricity, so i used a gasmotor compressor to try to blow the > water up the pvc...... using a 1"pvc pipe just through to the bottom of a > 1.9" x 6" section of abs, and all the way to the surface and beyond several > feet into a barrel. > Through this 6" abs section , I also ran a .5" air hose from the compressor > down and hanging 7' below the bottom of the section. > With both pipes in place, I sprayed foam around them inside the section, > creating a plug to direct the spurts up the 1" pipe. But of course the > "plug" had no outer seals, and therefore no absolute pressure. > I positioned this assembly at various heights in the water table, but at any > level it only spurted -quite strongly, at a constant 30# pressure, but very > sporadic- as the blowby water sank down again past the plug. It took 30 min. > for 30 gallons. > Also, I don't know what kind of flow is there. > I realize that I must have lost volume by forcing water out through the > screen too. Obviously, I havent finessed the operative principles at first > attempt. > > [If you can describe/recommend an inexpensive technique for utilizing the > air, it would be great, because we would like to use all manner of alternate > tech. in our forming community....as well as for ground source heat pumps.] > I' m aware of the options of: drilling wth a new 6" bit and inserting a 3" > submersible pump. > Or : finding an old fashioned 2" jet pump seal/venturi assembly and surface > pump.......both generator-run. > I'm only after a several barrels a day, but efficiently. > Thanks for any time you may have for this..... > REGARDS, ............ MANFRED PALMER........... > villager@netrover.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Nyberg > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 1:02 PM > Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump > > >Mr. Palmer, > >I believe Ferdinand is referring to the problem manual pumps have raising > >water from a deep well. The '60 feet could be the deepest he has heard of > a > >manual pump functioning. > >If you have a deeper well, you need an electric pump. > >On the subject of pumps, if anyone knows of a good source for manual pumps, > >I would love to hear from them. > > > >Martin Nyberg > > > >manfred palmer wrote: > > > >> Ferdinand : Just a quickie : re water: why 60' or more? > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ferdinand Vondruska > >> To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics > >> Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:07 AM > >> Subject: Y2K > >> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 15:38:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA01024 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:38:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA04248; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:29:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA04024 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id PAA11567 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:30:07 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:27:56 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF7E@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'biodynamic'" Subject: Y2K off, water pump Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:27:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 299 i'd be interested to know what others are doing who have deeper wells and are powering them without electricity . i was under the impression manual pumps were available down to 200 feet. of course they cost but i did think they were available at least. olivia From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 15:58:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA01510 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:58:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06470; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:39:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06210 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:37:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id PAA12106 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:39:31 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:37:21 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF7F@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'biodynamic'" Subject: environmental illnesses Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:37:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 300 i'm certainly flooding the list today -- so sorry. hearing from all the others is very important. i'll make this the last. i have the good fortune to be in an area offering a Permaculture class (at NC State) and will be turning in a small paper in the next few days about permaculture's provisions for those with environmental illnesses. i'd be interested to hear from any of you who want to tell me a thing or two about your own experiences with BD and these illnesses (chronic fatigue, systemic infection or multiple chemical sensitivities among others). i would be glad to keep it anonymous. my own experience has involved the first two mentioned above and i have of course found organic whole foods very helpful (and wish i could find some BD). have a good day olivia From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 16:08:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA01701 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:08:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA08135; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:59:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07807 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:57:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10B3Cp-0005yv-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:59:27 -0800 Message-ID: <36C342CE.A68B472F@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:51:26 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Goats and goats from Switzerland by Martha Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------ED44EB568C5DFB007F8E8F5D" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 301 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------ED44EB568C5DFB007F8E8F5D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martha had a blip in her system and so, I forward this on her behalf. Excellent reading. Regards Ferdinand --------------ED44EB568C5DFB007F8E8F5D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by gouda (mbox ferdy) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Thu Feb 11 08:56:39 1999) X-From_: flylo@txcyber.com Thu Feb 11 08:25:27 1999 Received: from portal.cy-net.net ([205.140.147.1] helo=portal.txcyber.com) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10AyvX-0000Bn-00 for ferdy@direct.ca; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:25:20 -0800 Received: from FLYLO (ppp235.cy-net.net [208.21.195.44]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA19460 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:39:20 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE55A8.9860CCE0@FLYLO>; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:23:41 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE55A8.9860CCE0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Ferdinand Vondruska'" Subject: off topic Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:23:40 -0600 Encoding: 52 TEXT This came in on another list, and since I had mentioned the Oberhasli, I thought it might be of interest to yourself. You might even be able to shed better light on the intepretations. The name 'Oberhasli' roughly translates to 'above the house'. If you look at a good map of Switzerland you'll find there are many places in Switzerland having the prefix 'Ober' since the country is dominated by the Alps and the valleys below are where the human population is most concentrated. Being a mountain goat...hence 'ober'...above. The 'Oberhasli' goats imported by Dr. Pence came from the Innertkirchen area (and herdbooks) which is located in the southeast corner of the Canton of Bern. In Switzerland, Oberhasli (as we call them here) are generally referred to as 'Gemsfarbige Gebirgsziege'....which translated means...'Chamoisee colored mountain goat '. This is the name of the race of these uniformly colored and marked dairy goats. Within that race were two recognized strains. The Oberhasli-Brienzer strain was bred in the Canton of Bern and was more commonly horned and the Bundner strain which originated in the Canton of Frybourg and is frequently polled. Swiss breeders told me the two strains were mixed together long, long ago and that there is no difference in color, conformation, production, etc within the race nation-wide. It's interesting to me that in a publication produced by the Swiss Goat Breeding Association dated 1921, the breed is described as 'remarkable for its chamois-like colour' .....chamois as in a wild, native animal....not a color itself. The 'chamoisee colored' reference is often referred to as a description of the PATTERN of black markings on the face, legs, underbelly and dorsal that we see on Oberhasli. In Switzerland, the body color is so uniform that it was the black markings that set them apart from other breeds. Seems some things get twisted or lost in translations. In the same 1921 publication is a reference to the "average height up to the withers of 0,75 to 0,90 meters (25 to 30 inches) and a weight of 70 to 90 kg". That description was typical (with many mature animals at or exceeding 30") of what we saw in 1997. After viewing several hundred purebred Oberhasli in Switzerland it's clear that setting a standard and adhering to it has paid off. We never saw off-colored, mis-marked or small statured animals. The quality and consistancy was remarkable and very impressive. It seems that reports from people who talk of off color, white patches, or roaning and other pitiful looking animals simply didn't know the difference between the Swiss-Oberhasli breed as opposed to the French Chamoisee Alpine.... a breed with no real standard other than milk production. The two are worlds apart though often share the same basic coloring and markings (except for the white flaws). To an untrained 'non-Oberhasli' eye I could see how easily a misperception could occur. And of course, just like here in the U.S., there are crossbreds of all combinations. If you don't speak the languages or have an interpreter, you could come home full of all sorts of misperceptions. A little long on the origin of the breed but I hope it was of interest. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html --------------ED44EB568C5DFB007F8E8F5D-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 16:13:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA01841 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:13:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09289; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:06:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08742 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:03:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10B3Hm-0001O4-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:04:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36C343FF.C04F1F73@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:56:31 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump References: <01BE55B9.7959EDC0@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 302 Yes Martha, This is exactly what I mean. Panic. And. People forget that they have teeth and can eat grain when they sprout it (provided they put grain into storage also and do not only buy a mill......haha). But, joking aside, it is marvellous on how little you can get along provided you are a bit dry and have water. Regards Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > E-bay had one (hand pump) up recently (look in garden / tools / ) for $25, > I think but it required a leather gasket, so I'd presume it was quite old. > Sears Farm & Ranch catalog used to carry things like hand pumps, hand grain > mills, and may not be one of the sources people think of for 'y2k' gear. If > you go to someone like Cumberland General Store, they already have a 7 > month backlog at least on hand grain mills. > martha (tx) > > Name: WINMAIL.DAT > WINMAIL.DAT Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream) > Encoding: x-uuencode From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 16:27:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02552 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:27:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA11663; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:18:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA11208 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:16:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10B3UM-00011A-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:17:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36C34708.35B33855@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:09:29 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K - and a call for action!! References: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF79@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 303 Olivia, I spent seven weeks in Finland (and as we know, close to the Russian border th is is.....). So my son-in-law is in the military and what have they to say about Y2K. Shudders, shudders, shudders. We may quite possibly see a launch of a few Russian rockets.....! And further a Chernobyl like meltdown of an old atomic power plant. And further, St Petersburg, which has (I did not believe it) six million people and an infrastructure like a middle age town, St. Petersburg go hungry. Because, they are not prepared computer wise....! (un-wise). I think we are relatively fine here on this Continent. However, I am more concerned with all those (see above) problems that may (yes,may) happen. Nothing is for sure but death and taxes (I repeat myself here). But if only one stupid thing does happen, we can rest assured that the powers to be demand a world dictatorship and they are witing for it. The banking industry is calling for a world government, the military (in Europe and Middle East and NATO) is calling for it. The Asians are in disarray and we, here, are all dreaming a sweet dream of - 'so what if we do not have hydro or no gasoline-/. I can live without both, I am sure. But what can be done for those who are exposed to these dangers? Let us, again, follow the call which Thomas made: meditate, pray and send all our positive ideas to the spiritual world so that the Y2K event becomes a non-event. I would kick myself everywhere IF in February 2000 we would have to say to ourselves: well, we were 1 person short who could have helped meditate and we could have prevented the meltdown of another Chernobyl reactor. To send positive feelings, love, etherically upliftint ideas, Michaelic Ideas that is to the spiritual world is (for me at least) as demanding as digging a mile long trench five feet deep. But, if it has to be done for mankind, I am prepared to dig. I am thoroughly convinced that we (all) want and have to come back again (in due course) and shall meet the omissions (and deeds) of our past. Your eye opening comments are a joy to read and I thank you for your contributions. Many thanks. Ferdinand James.Olivia wrote: > the creativity you write about sounds wonderful (though i'm sorry i can't > raise much enthusiasm for efforts like microsoft and boeing as i'm a > supporter of local ingenuity and global humility, taking better care of our > planet than to suppose we all need MS Word and a quick trip around the > world). no offense i hope. i do believe in creativitiy. that's exactly why i > have such disdain for much of what i've seen here around me. it's a world, > for many of us, that doesn't require us to think, doesn't require us to be > responsible. i should know, i'm a recovering moron. (no comments, please -- > i'm still recovering) :-) > > so here's to Y2K fears, and to those humans awakened by the whole thing! > awakened to reach out and prepare, talk to the neighbors... (for those who > sit with guns in hand behind the gates of stockpiled houses haven't changed > one bit) > > feeling aggressive today (i've been eating meat again) > olivia > > > ---------- > > From: Martin Nyberg > > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 12:56 PM > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Subject: Re: Y2K > > > > Olivia, > > Not that I am a flag waving red neck patriot republican, but you might > > consider > > that the advanced preparations Americans are making for Y2K (inadequate > > though > > they are), could be the result of our foresight and wisdom. In my > > community, > > we Americans are moving with compassion and determination to help people > > who > > might suffer. And after all, the technology which has the "bug" was > > manufactured and designed here in the US to the largest degree, spurred by > > the > > creativity of American culture. Stupid mistake for sure, but living in > > the > > city that spawned Microsoft and Boeing, I can tell you that American > > genius > > puts many around the world in a state of awe. For that I am proud. Now > > we > > have a responsibility to lead the world in repairing the bug because we > > caused > > it to a large extent. > > > > Martin Nyberg > > > > > > "James.Olivia" wrote: > > > > > allison, > > > i sincerely believe that the difference is that we in the US can't get > > our > > > minds around big, vague concepts like long-term quality of life and > > being > > > involved in poltics (thus, the GE topic). but we've GOT to have our > > THINGS!! > > > the thought of not having central heat and air, the thought of not being > > > able to drive, the thought of having to rely on ourselves, not our > > system is > > > TERRIFYING. we have forgotten how to be reliable. so that leaves us > > nothing > > > to rely on but our power grid, our infrastructure. without these we must > > > face another big, vague concept: how many ways we are wrong and need to > > > change. > > > yuck! i'm in america up to my eyeballs. > > > olivia > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > From: ALISON EADES > > > > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 9:42 AM > > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > > Subject: Re: Y2K > > > > > > > > This is really interesting. There is a lot of discussion over here > > about > > > > the > > > > Millenium Bug (in the UK) and possible upsets but Joe Bloggs in the > > street > > > > isn't really worried. One or two people have proposed planting a bit > > more > > > > of > > > > a vegetable garden this year but there's no great panic. On the radio > > they > > > > were saying there's no need for bulk buying. The papers have been a > > bit > > > > worried about aircraft crashing into each other. It just strikes me as > > odd > > > > that there appears to be a lot more concern and preparation in the > > States > > > > than in the UK over the Bug, yet the other way around for genetic > > > > engineering. > > > > > > > > Alison > > > > > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > > > > To all: > > > > > My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty > > programmes > > > > > only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and > > > > > eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin > > indicated, > > > > > IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help > > to > > > > > be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes > > off. > > > > > Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated > > > > > that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee > > the > > > > > hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said > > that > > > > > they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon > > Alaska > > > > > Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may > > not > > > > > be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator > > ready > > > > > plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other > > > > > helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. > > > > > etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What > > may > > > > > truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand > > (stay > > > > > cool) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 16:48:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03621 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:48:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA15261; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:39:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14905 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:37:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-5-p135.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.135]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17102 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:39:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C34B01.1CED6EE7@seattle2000.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:26:26 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Goats and goats from Switzerland by Martha References: <36C342CE.A68B472F@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 304 Martha, Just out of curiousity, why do you refer to French Alpines with white coloration as "flawed"? I own two with much white and consider it beautiful! Martin Nyberg Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Martha had a blip in her system and so, I forward this on her behalf. > Excellent reading. Regards Ferdinand > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: off topic > Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:23:40 -0600 > From: Martha Wells > To: "'Ferdinand Vondruska'" > > This came in on another list, and since I had mentioned the Oberhasli, I thought it might be of interest to yourself. > You might even be able to shed better light on the intepretations. > > The name 'Oberhasli' roughly translates to 'above the house'. If you look at a > good map of Switzerland you'll find there are many places in Switzerland > having the prefix 'Ober' since the country is dominated by the Alps and the > valleys below are where the human population is most concentrated. Being a > mountain goat...hence 'ober'...above. > > The 'Oberhasli' goats imported by Dr. Pence came from the Innertkirchen area > (and herdbooks) which is located in the southeast corner of the Canton of > Bern. In Switzerland, Oberhasli (as we call them here) are generally referred > to as 'Gemsfarbige Gebirgsziege'....which translated means...'Chamoisee > colored mountain goat '. This is the name of the race of these uniformly > colored and marked dairy goats. Within that race were two recognized strains. > The Oberhasli-Brienzer strain was bred in the Canton of Bern and was more > commonly horned and the Bundner strain which originated in the Canton of > Frybourg and is frequently polled. Swiss breeders told me the two strains > were mixed together long, long ago and that there is no difference in color, > conformation, production, etc within the race nation-wide. > > It's interesting to me that in a publication produced by the Swiss Goat > Breeding Association dated 1921, the breed is described as 'remarkable for its > chamois-like colour' .....chamois as in a wild, native animal....not a color > itself. The 'chamoisee colored' reference is often referred to as a > description of the PATTERN of black markings on the face, legs, underbelly and > dorsal that we see on Oberhasli. In Switzerland, the body color is so uniform > that it was the black markings that set them apart from other breeds. Seems > some things get twisted or lost in translations. > > In the same 1921 publication is a reference to the "average height up to the > withers of 0,75 to 0,90 meters (25 to 30 inches) and a weight of 70 to 90 kg". > That description was typical (with many mature animals at or exceeding 30") of > what we saw in 1997. After viewing several hundred purebred Oberhasli in > Switzerland it's clear that setting a standard and adhering to it has paid > off. We never saw off-colored, mis-marked or small statured animals. The > quality and consistancy was remarkable and very impressive. > > It seems that reports from people who talk of off color, white patches, or > roaning and other pitiful looking animals simply didn't know the difference > between the Swiss-Oberhasli breed as opposed to the French Chamoisee > Alpine.... a breed with no real standard other than milk production. The two > are worlds apart though often share the same basic coloring and markings > (except for the white flaws). To an untrained 'non-Oberhasli' eye I could see > how easily a misperception could occur. And of course, just like here in the > U.S., there are crossbreds of all combinations. If you don't speak the > languages or have an interpreter, you could come home full of all sorts of > misperceptions. > > A little long on the origin of the breed but I hope it was of interest. > > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 18:04:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA05176 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:04:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA22722; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:51:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA22390 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:48:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp266.cy-net.net [208.21.195.75]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA09920 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:04:13 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE55DE.5851A940@FLYLO>; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:48:26 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE55DE.5851A940@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: testing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:48:25 -0600 Encoding: 8 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 305 This is a test. When I get this in return, I'll only see this note, no attachments. So, would someone kindly forward your version to me if it has the attached file. I currently have my isp looking into the problem, and they're clueless about how winmail.dat would be attaching itself. (It's only a duplicate of my original post, but I DON'T WANT IT.) Thank you, and I'm so sorry for the disruption. (I swear, this is the ONLY usegroup I affect this way.) martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 18:39:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06148 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:39:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA26978; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:30:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA26645 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:26:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0209.direct.ca ([204.244.83.25] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10B5WT-0004g0-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:27:57 -0800 Message-ID: <36C36574.E83153FA@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:19:16 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump References: <01be55f4$ef9122c0$4e15d1cd@default> <36C33778.D4CEACF9@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 306 Very much appreciated. Many thanks. Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Mr. Palmer, > Thanks for the info. I actually own a DeepRock hydra drill but have not used > it yet. I did not see hand-pumps on the web site. > Martin Nyberg > > manfred palmer wrote: > > > Hi Martin,Ferdinand: I am including A letter I just sent to a tech. expert > > re:water supply alternatives. I just want enough water for transplanting > > time etc.[Idont regularly irrigate] > > and I can't afford many of the other options. > > Here may be useful a connection for many out there: http://www.deeprock.com > > 1-800-633-8774 in Opelika, Alabama. I just confirmed that these suppliers > > are backordered till march 15 because of the y2k response, for their > > traditional cast iron hand pumps.,and they supply other distributors.It > > would be smart to check local backwoods hardware or pump stores for old > > stock as soon as you can. .....The pump alone is listed at $359. without > > sucker rod or 1.25" drop pipe. model 11ha will pump from 100', and model > > 11hb will pump from 200'. > > That , i'm told will fit in 2" casing. If this is true, it is an improvement > > compared to my previous info that the casing had to be 4" or more for the > > suction device at the bottom to work. I'll confirm that sometime soon. Good > > luck. ......manfred > > > > Hi : > > Ysaid that you might be able to help me with my garden water source. > > It is the following situation :Using a portable mini drill rig, I drilled > > with a 4" bit, to 49'. inserted 2" pvc with 5' slit screen section at > > bottom. water level came up to 32' from the surface.I had not poured down > > any pea gravel on the outside or inside of the 2" pvc. > > There is fine sand through the bottom 15'. > > > > I have no electricity, so i used a gasmotor compressor to try to blow the > > water up the pvc...... using a 1"pvc pipe just through to the bottom of a > > 1.9" x 6" section of abs, and all the way to the surface and beyond several > > feet into a barrel. > > Through this 6" abs section , I also ran a .5" air hose from the compressor > > down and hanging 7' below the bottom of the section. > > With both pipes in place, I sprayed foam around them inside the section, > > creating a plug to direct the spurts up the 1" pipe. But of course the > > "plug" had no outer seals, and therefore no absolute pressure. > > I positioned this assembly at various heights in the water table, but at any > > level it only spurted -quite strongly, at a constant 30# pressure, but very > > sporadic- as the blowby water sank down again past the plug. It took 30 min. > > for 30 gallons. > > Also, I don't know what kind of flow is there. > > I realize that I must have lost volume by forcing water out through the > > screen too. Obviously, I havent finessed the operative principles at first > > attempt. > > > > [If you can describe/recommend an inexpensive technique for utilizing the > > air, it would be great, because we would like to use all manner of alternate > > tech. in our forming community....as well as for ground source heat pumps.] > > I' m aware of the options of: drilling wth a new 6" bit and inserting a 3" > > submersible pump. > > Or : finding an old fashioned 2" jet pump seal/venturi assembly and surface > > pump.......both generator-run. > > I'm only after a several barrels a day, but efficiently. > > Thanks for any time you may have for this..... > > REGARDS, ............ MANFRED PALMER........... > > villager@netrover.com > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Martin Nyberg > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 1:02 PM > > Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump > > > > >Mr. Palmer, > > >I believe Ferdinand is referring to the problem manual pumps have raising > > >water from a deep well. The '60 feet could be the deepest he has heard of > > a > > >manual pump functioning. > > >If you have a deeper well, you need an electric pump. > > >On the subject of pumps, if anyone knows of a good source for manual pumps, > > >I would love to hear from them. > > > > > >Martin Nyberg > > > > > >manfred palmer wrote: > > > > > >> Ferdinand : Just a quickie : re water: why 60' or more? > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Ferdinand Vondruska > > >> To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics > > >> Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:07 AM > > >> Subject: Y2K > > >> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 18:44:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06254 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:44:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA27517; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA27322 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:34:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0209.direct.ca ([204.244.83.25] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10B5dT-0000TZ-00; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:35:08 -0800 Message-ID: <36C36723.566E7A23@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:26:28 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Smith CC: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Re: trout spawning quidelines References: <19990211193713.22064.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 307 Dear Michael, I've printed it out and will take it to the hatchery on Monday. Mind you, I won't barge into their office with printout in hand. I'll arrange for a meeting and ask them 'how do you do' it..... And shall report back to U and BDNOW. That way they may accept my suggestion(S) Regards Ferdinand Michael Smith wrote: > Dear Ferdinand, > > The folling is from a NC Ag Svc. I believe I have some other info on > paper. Let me know if this is adequete. It should work on salmon. At > the end of the article is the address for this web page. > > Cheers, > Michael. > > in North Carolina > Trout Spawning Guidelines > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I. Checking Females > 1. Anesthetize the females with about 0.3-0.5 gram of MS-222 (tricaine > methane sulfonate) and 2 grams of baking soda (NaHCO3) per gallon of > water using a 30 gallon trash can or comparable container. The females > should succumb in about one minute, at which time they can be handled > safely. > > 2. Check females once per week for ripeness starting 2-4 weeks prior to > expected spawning period. Ripe females should have swollen mid-sections, > the vent should stick out and be redish in color. > > 3. With the index finger GENTLY squeeze the female behind the pelvic > fins and work toward the vent, feeling for a possible plug of old eggs, > which must be worked out before the eggs will flow freely. Ripe eggs > will flow freely with little pressure, will be yellow to orange in color > and will be translucent. Allow a few eggs to drop into the water. If a > milky coating is seen or dots are seen in the eggs, this indicates the > eggs are over-ripe and cannot be fertilized. > > II. Spawning > 1. Anesthetize females and an appropriate number of males to spawn one > male per female. Strip the eggs from the female into a dry plastic pan > and immediately apply milt from the male. Add enough water to cover the > eggs and swirl to mix. Allow to stand for 2 minutes then rinse the eggs > by filling the spawning pan with water and slowly pouring off the excess > water and milt. Do this 3 or 4 times until the water left in the > spawning pan is clear. Place eggs in a clean 5 gallon bucket filled with > a 25 parts per million active iodine solution (Argentyne and Betadyne - > 9.5 ml or almost 2 teaspoons/gallon of water; Wescodyne - 6 ml or > slightly more than 1 teaspoon)/ gallon of water). > > 2. Repeat these steps until all ripe females are spawned. Females will > yield 1000- 4000 eggs per female depending on fish size, age, and > health. > > 3. Allow eggs in 5 gallon bucket to water-harden for one hour while > providing adequate aeration > . > III. Incubating > 1. Place a suitable number of eggs in incubator(s) to maintain adequate > flow of water to eggs (see SRAC Publication 220 - Handling Eggs and > Fry). > > 2. The eggs may need to be treated daily with 1:600 concentration of > formalin (48 fluid ounces/4 gallons per minute of flow) for 15 minutes > to prevent fungus from forming (See Trout Egg Formalin Treatment). > > 3. Incubate until eggs hatch (20-50 days dependent on water > temperature), remove from incubators, and place in troughs or tanks. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Return to Haywood County Homepage > > > > Please send me your Comments > URL: http://haywood.ces.state.nc.us/pubs/trout/ > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 18:56:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06453 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:56:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA28264; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:47:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA28192 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:46:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0209.direct.ca ([204.244.83.25] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10B5q9-0006mF-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:48:18 -0800 Message-ID: <36C36A36.FF672FD@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:39:34 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K - and some Soya flour... References: <36C2B7D2.19A9D85A@direct.ca> <36C2EC61.F00857C6@watating.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 308 Well, Alison, how much can the 'average' (if there is such a person) the average person bear. Since most of the people do not fly on January 1st, 2000, why be concerned. And a few hours without electricity, haven't we experienced that before? And, Alison, being on an Island (having spent 6 years in the UK) well, does the Continent have a problem - or Good Old England? Deserves them right those Germans......! You know what I mean. We won the war so, why worry? The English are mostly people who take a long range view, the way I know them. So, GE is certainly their cup of tea. Yet, the picture, as I have pointed out, looks different. Whereas GE is a long range problem (and has its 'humble' beginning RIGHT NOW), the Y2K bug had its humble beginning some 40 years ago and is acting out is perverse behaviour (and hopefully not!). We shall see. In the long run, however, GE manipulation may be much more of a problem than the Y2K bug (unless we have a meltdown or some of an atomic power plant - that, certainly would GE manipulate many a plant, animal and human being over the long run. At this point, my friend, one can only hope and act responsibly. Martha's list and her concern for the neighbours is the best thing one can do as an individual. To get people like my son going (like mad) and to solve the problem, is another thing. He told me a few days ago that he re-set a soya mill in Vancouver in early December. They would have gone flat, a meltdown, he said. (no problem with soya flour) But, what irks him most - at this point in time - they still have not paid their bill for bailing them out. All the best Ferdinand ALISON EADES wrote: > This is really interesting. There is a lot of discussion over here about the > Millenium Bug (in the UK) and possible upsets but Joe Bloggs in the street > isn't really worried. One or two people have proposed planting a bit more of > a vegetable garden this year but there's no great panic. On the radio they > were saying there's no need for bulk buying. The papers have been a bit > worried about aircraft crashing into each other. It just strikes me as odd > that there appears to be a lot more concern and preparation in the States > than in the UK over the Bug, yet the other way around for genetic > engineering. > > Alison > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > To all: > > My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty programmes > > only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and > > eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin indicated, > > IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help to > > be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes off. > > Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated > > that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee the > > hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said that > > they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon Alaska > > Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may not > > be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator ready > > plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other > > helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. > > etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What may > > truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand (stay > > cool) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 19:36:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA06978 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:36:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA02346; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:26:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02143 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:24:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.156] (pm3shep1-163-54.intrepid.net [209.190.163.54]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08408 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:25:56 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36C2EC61.F00857C6@watating.demon.co.uk> References: <36C2B7D2.19A9D85A@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:26:46 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Y2K Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 309 >This is really interesting. There is a lot of discussion over here about the >Millenium Bug (in the UK) and possible upsets but Joe Bloggs in the street >isn't really worried. One or two people have proposed planting a bit more of >a vegetable garden this year but there's no great panic. On the radio they >were saying there's no need for bulk buying. The papers have been a bit >worried about aircraft crashing into each other. It just strikes me as odd >that there appears to be a lot more concern and preparation in the States >than in the UK over the Bug, yet the other way around for genetic >engineering. > >Alison Alison - Here in the US the federal agencies have used the Y2K thing as a means of accessing huge bankrolls from the taxpayers in order to 'fix the problem.' Huge bankrolls to federal agencies means big funds to corporate enterprises. The press in the US is about 99% corporate at this time, hence 'the buzz.' Remember, our government kept us frightened of the Soviet menace for almost 50 years - - a long time after you Europeans were quite satisfied that the Soviet army only possessed about 6 reliable storage batteries for their thousands of vehicles and for this reason was not much of a real threat to anyone.. In the secular world, they say there are only two ways to motivate people: fear and greed. Having recently been offered a "Y2K Seed Bank" in a gallon tin can for $200+ dollars, and having to suffer through excited dirges about "scalping early" by others who should know better, I'd have to say that Y2K is serving both motivations well. Raised as a mormon, however, I encourage everyone to have two year's supply of food and water and to be as free from 'the grid' as possible. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 21:20:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA08568 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA12311; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:03:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12198 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (tor-pm-3-86.netrover.com [205.209.27.86]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA05285 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:03:45 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:18:08 -0500 Message-ID: <01be5625$8cbe1a00$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 310 Hi Martin: The hand pump is not shown on the web, but it's in the flyer i received from Deeprock last month along with other supplies. They sent it on request. Did you order the how-to video with your drill? or do you know all the relevant procedure ? We had some real dry spells last year, and I would prefer to be more prepared. Incidentally, Thanks for the CSA posting. I passed it along to my own CSA participants, and they really liked it. -----Original Message----- From: Martin Nyberg To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 3:18 PM Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump >Mr. Palmer, >Thanks for the info. I actually own a DeepRock hydra drill but have not used >it yet. I did not see hand-pumps on the web site. >Martin Nyberg > >> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 21:41:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA08836 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:41:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA14944; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:32:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14756 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:30:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-5-p135.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.135]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26529 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:32:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C38FAA.CDD98E0@seattle2000.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:19:46 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump References: <01be5625$8cbe1a00$LocalHost@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 311 Oh, your welcome. I hope my little bit of writing might inspire you members to be long time return subscribers who truly understand CSA. I did get the video but I can't say I understand the procedure. Spurred by your reference to the company, I called them today to question them on how deep the drill will go. My neighbors had to drill over 300 feet and the hydra-drill is made to go only 200 or so. How is your CSA doing? We are in our second year. We are running an ad in the local paper to get more subscribers. We could use about 15 more this season. Martin Nyberg manfred palmer wrote: > Hi Martin: The hand pump is not shown on the web, but it's in the flyer i > received from Deeprock last month along with other supplies. They sent it on > request. > Did you order the how-to video with your drill? or do you know all the > relevant procedure ? > We had some real dry spells last year, and I would prefer to be more > prepared. > Incidentally, Thanks for the CSA posting. I passed it along to my own CSA > participants, and they really liked it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Nyberg > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 3:18 PM > Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump > > >Mr. Palmer, > >Thanks for the info. I actually own a DeepRock hydra drill but have not > used > >it yet. I did not see hand-pumps on the web site. > >Martin Nyberg > > > >> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 21:42:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA08859 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:42:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA15116; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:33:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.41]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14823 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:31:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.4.60]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990212023231.DPIL12450@default>; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 02:32:31 +0000 Message-ID: <36C3800D.389E@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:12:45 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump References: <01be55cf$4fad47e0$4e15d1cd@default> <36C30C91.2387BFDA@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 312 Hi Ferdy, My information says about 30 feet deep is as far as one can pull with a hand pump. I have read also that there is apparently a way to rig up a "sliding sleeve" kind of well bucket which can bring smaller amounts of water (about a quart IIRC?) up from deeper. Regards, Linda ************************************************************* Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > Sorry for that omission. That's the depth of our well and a bit less to the > surface of our river. And just thinking of it IF you have a handpump, the > limit of pumping it up to the surface may be at 100' ? Does anybody know from > what max depth you can handpump. Best regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 21:42:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA08886 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:42:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA15031; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:33:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.41]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14808 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:31:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.4.60]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990212023218.DPFR12450@default>; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 02:32:18 +0000 Message-ID: <36C37CD0.363D@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:58:56 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Text wrap-- Feedback References: <01BE54EC.F54C83C0@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 313 Martha, this is what I receive in a long line strung out to the right. Regards, Linda ************************************ Martha Wells wrote: > > Test: I changed 'format column' to best fit. I don't know if this will make a difference or not. Since I see this as a fine fit, could someone who is having p > > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Attachment 2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 21:51:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09028 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:51:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA15681; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:38:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15223 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:35:08 -0500 (EST) From: hbc@world.std.com Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0) id VAA15005; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:36:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from DHH-Home.mathworks.com (world.std.com) by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA09753; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:36:36 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990211213934.0073c06c@world.std.com> X-Sender: hbc@world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:39:38 -0500 To: Biodynamic Farming Subject: Puddles NEwsletter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 314 Puddles Comment: The conservation of migratory birds depends on conservation of habitats, but parks and reserves alone will not provide adequate space for protection. The fate of migratory birds and other wide-ranging species depends upon the quality of human-managed habitats. The health of temperate and tropical ecosystems is bound together by the migration of billions of birds each year- and shaded coffee plantations play a key role. This form of land use may itself be on the way of becoming an endangered species. Ponder this over your next cup of coffee. Would you be willing to pay more for coffee if you knew the extra money would be used for extension services and affordable credit for coffee farmers to survive and grow more coffee in a more bird-friendly manner? For more info go to the Smithsonian Institution Migratory Bird Center at "http://www.si.edu/smbc" Puddles Fact: Addison County ruffles its feathers in anticipation of the 1st Annual Lake Champlain Birding Festival. May 28th-31st marks the fledgling flight of the first event of this kind in Northern New England. For more info contact: Jennifer Wyman, Basin Harbor Club, 802-475-2311 or Martha Fisher, Addison County Chamber of Commerce, 800-733-8376 >From the folks at Happy Bird. Other Facts and information about animals and water are on our homepage, at "http://www.petsforum.com/happybird/" From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 21:56:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09059 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:56:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16690; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:47:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16577 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:46:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.19]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:57:13 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:48:15 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) Message-ID: <12D3726745087A05852567110002C45B.000E36A685256711@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 315 Dear Friends on Bd-Now, I was recently having lunch here in NYC with some biodynamic farmer friends from Virginia. We got around to discussing the millenium, apocalypse and Y2K (between courses) and had lots to discuss. This is a meditation he sent to me when they returned home even though he was the one who thought NYC would be wiped out by floods, and not I! Best Regards, Jane Sherry "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes towards the human being out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all feelings and sensations about the future. We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may come. And we must think only that whatever comes is given to us by a world directive full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, namely, to live out of pure trust, without any security in existence. Trust in the ever present help of the spiritual world. Truely, nothing esle will do if our courage is not to fail us. And let us seek the awakening from within outselves, every morning and evening." From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 22:07:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09274 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:07:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA17202; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:53:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16950 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:50:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA04711; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:54:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:54:42 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US cc: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Malarial Mosquitoes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 316 Dear Jane, More on those nasty mossies after I have done some reading A. Mosquito-Eating Fish There appears to be some that more efficient than others. Those involved would have do research as to which ones would be best for that locatino(s). B. More on BtI. Some tradenames in North America. Don't know if apply to area in question. Teknar, Bactimos, Vectoba BtI may not be the cheapest solution, but, is one of the best environmentally, and less non-target organisms affected. C. Mosquito-Attacking Nematodes mermithids commercially dev. recently were Romanomermis culivorax. In US mass-production reduced cost to $10/million critters. Field trials have been conducted in pontds, grassy fields in florida, Louisiana, rice fields, lakes in CA, aquatic env. in Taiwan and Thailand. With the right conditions they do well, which include warm temp., correct pH, low salinity and pollution and absence of nematode predators. D. Suffocating Surface Film. Very env. disruptive, but, quite effective. When the larvae come to the surface for air, the oil clogs their breathing tubes and they choke to death. Newer special mosquito control oils have recently come to market such as Arosurf. However, the effects are less effective if there is a wind, etc. E. Insect Groth Regulators. expensive. but, biodegradable and probably food for other microrganisms. eg. are Altosid by Zoecon. Really contains Methoprene as major active agent. F. BtI plus monomolecular surface film oils Probably the most effective combo. by combining D. and B. Hope this helps, Michael From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 22:16:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09417 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:16:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA18583; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:07:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18359 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:05:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.125] (pm3shep1-163-28.intrepid.net [209.190.163.28]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA08334 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:07:18 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:06:30 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: artificial insemination Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 317 Well for yet another to jump in here who has even less knowledge about all this breeding stuff, I would like to then ask the question if electro-magnetic fields induce "negative effects" on systems with water, what are we doing using microwave machines to heat up food with water content? Mista Keen > AS Julie said earlier, permit me, who has had no experience in animal > mating at all, to jump in. > Using electricity, or is it electromagnetism, to induce semen production > makes use, or perhaps, mis-use, of the Fallen Light and Fallen Chemical > Ethers. As Alan Hall's book showed, these electric and electro-magnetic > fields induce negative effects on systems with water, and that includes > semen, which is then passed on to generations of cattle. > Michael (BC) > > On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Julie M. wrote: > > > Dear Ferdy & Martha, > > > > I'd like to jump in on this thread as I have some rather strong feelings on > > the whole AI > > thing... > > > > First of all, I was completely enchanted with your description Ferdy, of > > what ACTUALLY occurs during the mating process. I've not developed the >"eye" > > to see this firsthand, but you give me something to strive for. > > > > One thing that actually shocked (no pun intended) me, when I learned of it > > is the procedure whereby bulls are electrically induced to produce semen. > > This inhumanity was VERY disturbing to me and I wondered what effect this > > might have on the bull, the semen & resulting offspring. > > > > Another aspect, on a completely mundane level, that was recently suggested > > on my local farming list, was that if companies like Monsanto can retain > > "rights" over any future crops their seed might produce, what implications > > might this hold for AI and any future heifers that a company's semen might > > produce? > > > > And I would also like to take exception to the implication that using AI > > diversifies the gene pool. I think it has the opposite effect. Semen >ads now > > tout the benefit "outcross" on many of the newer bulls because of this very > > problem. There is so much "Mason/Sooner/Boomer" blood in American Jersey > > herds today (because of AI) that the cattle are weakened. The breed > > societies are actually encouraging people to crossbreed their cattle, then > > breed > > them back to Jersey or Swiss or whatever, a few more times...after a couple > > generations they can get purebred papers! And I have said before that the > > semen folks do not breed for temperament, good health, efficiency on grass, > > etc. (Although New Zealanders are much better about this) Here, we have > > created > > udders that the frame of a cow can barely support, completely out of > > proportion! This invites problems, and that's why the average life of a US > > dairy cow is 5 years! > > > > The problem with breeding a cow to an oversized bull or larger breed is a > > bad management call, period. It is bad farming that is a result of > > greed...(a decision probably made by a cowboy-rancher who's never had to > > deliver a 10-lb baby!) To portray it as the result of natural service is > > inaccurate. It also smacks of the whole > > techno-superiority complex that our society suffers from - that an AI > > technician is better qualified than the farmer in determining the bull of > > choice. Farmers have lost faith in their knowledge/experience, animals, > > land, and placed their faith into the hands scientists & big corporations. > > > > So Steiner was right, IMO, we've brought problems into our herds with this > > technology (and we appear to be attacking the next link in the food chain, > > with GE plants!) > > > > Technology is like fire...a marvelous tool, when used with wisdom - but in > > the hands of children (like our scientists/techies) downright deadly! > > > > Julie > > > > > > Clive From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 22:17:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09439 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:17:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA18675; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:08:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18482 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:06:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.125] (pm3shep1-163-28.intrepid.net [209.190.163.28]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA08552 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:08:33 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <023e01be5645$955d3b80$3ff7c4a1@redfox> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:09:26 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: UNSUBSCRIBE Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 318 > unsubscribe =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 22:19:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09470 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:19:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA18320; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:05:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net [200.44.32.51]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18125 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:03:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from redfox (nas1-077.ras.mbo.cantv.net [161.196.236.78]) by rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/1.0) with SMTP id XAA20871 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:05:29 -0400 (VET) Message-ID: <023e01be5645$955d3b80$3ff7c4a1@redfox> From: "Red Fox" To: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:02:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0218_01BE5612.9D04F360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 319 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0218_01BE5612.9D04F360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable unsubscribe ------=_NextPart_000_0218_01BE5612.9D04F360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0218_01BE5612.9D04F360-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 22:21:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09512 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:21:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA18981; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:11:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net [200.44.32.51]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18610 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:08:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from redfox (nas1-077.ras.mbo.cantv.net [161.196.236.78]) by rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/1.0) with SMTP id XAA22031; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:09:33 -0400 (VET) Message-ID: <026501be5646$27ddcf60$3ff7c4a1@redfox> From: "Red Fox" To: , "Jane Sherry/wcdev/US" Cc: Subject: Re: OFF: Malarial Mosquitoes Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:08:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 320 How do I get off this list? Can anyone help me? redfox@cantv.net http://members.tripod.com/lagofox/index.html Enlaces al Mercado de Trabajo, Bolsas Electronicas, Job Mailing Lists especializadas e informacion sobre la Planificacion de la Carrera Laboral y su ciclo de vida. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Roboz To: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Cc: Sent: Jueves, 11 de Febrero de 1999 08:54 p.m. Subject: Re: OFF: Malarial Mosquitoes >Dear Jane, > > More on those nasty mossies after I have done some reading > >A. Mosquito-Eating Fish > There appears to be some that more efficient than others. Those >involved would have do research as to which ones would be best for that >locatino(s). > >B. More on BtI. >Some tradenames in North America. Don't know if apply to area in question. >Teknar, Bactimos, Vectoba > BtI may not be the cheapest solution, but, is one of the best >environmentally, and less non-target organisms affected. > >C. Mosquito-Attacking Nematodes > >mermithids commercially dev. recently were Romanomermis culivorax. In US >mass-production reduced cost to $10/million critters. >Field trials have been conducted in pontds, grassy fields in florida, >Louisiana, rice fields, lakes in CA, aquatic env. in Taiwan and Thailand. >With the right conditions they do well, which include warm temp., correct >pH, low salinity and pollution and absence of nematode predators. > >D. Suffocating Surface Film. > > Very env. disruptive, but, quite effective. When the larvae come to the >surface for air, the oil clogs their breathing tubes and they choke to >death. Newer special mosquito control oils have recently come to market >such as Arosurf. However, the effects are less effective if there is a >wind, etc. > >E. Insect Groth Regulators. > > expensive. but, biodegradable and probably food for other microrganisms. >eg. are Altosid by Zoecon. Really contains Methoprene as major active >agent. > >F. BtI plus monomolecular surface film oils > > Probably the most effective combo. by combining D. and B. > >Hope this helps, Michael > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 22:26:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09600 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:26:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA19090; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:11:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net [200.44.32.51]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18632 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:08:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from redfox (nas1-077.ras.mbo.cantv.net [161.196.236.78]) by rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/1.0) with SMTP id XAA22107 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:09:44 -0400 (VET) Message-ID: <026801be5646$2d2bd7a0$3ff7c4a1@redfox> From: "Red Fox" To: Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:11:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 321 How can I get off this list? redfox@cantv.net http://members.tripod.com/lagofox/index.html Enlaces al Mercado de Trabajo, Bolsas Electronicas, Job Mailing Lists especializadas e informacion sobre la Planificacion de la Carrera Laboral y su ciclo de vida. ----- Original Message ----- From: manfred palmer To: Sent: Jueves, 11 de Febrero de 1999 07:18 p.m. Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump >Hi Martin: The hand pump is not shown on the web, but it's in the flyer i >received from Deeprock last month along with other supplies. They sent it on >request. >Did you order the how-to video with your drill? or do you know all the >relevant procedure ? >We had some real dry spells last year, and I would prefer to be more >prepared. >Incidentally, Thanks for the CSA posting. I passed it along to my own CSA >participants, and they really liked it. >-----Original Message----- >From: Martin Nyberg >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 3:18 PM >Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump > > >>Mr. Palmer, >>Thanks for the info. I actually own a DeepRock hydra drill but have not >used >>it yet. I did not see hand-pumps on the web site. >>Martin Nyberg >> >>> > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 22:26:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09612 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:26:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA19729; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:16:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19527 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:14:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.138.96.10]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:25:29 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:16:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Malarial Mosquitoes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 322 Thank you Michael and everyone else who contacted me privately as well as on the list with your suggestions for combatting malarial mosquitoes. I have forwarded the information to Dr. Woolf and will be back in touch if she has any questions. Many thanks, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 11 23:47:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA10807 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:47:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA26980; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:33:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26676 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:31:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (tor-pm-5-139.netrover.com [205.209.27.139]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12914 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:32:53 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:28:12 -0500 Message-ID: <01be5640$1a318060$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 323 Martin Martha Ferdinand : This site is well worth exploring .,in my opinion. http://www.jademountain.com/wellpumps.html -----Original Message----- From: Martin Nyberg To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 9:34 PM Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump >Oh, your welcome. I hope my little bit of writing might inspire you members to >be long time return subscribers who truly understand CSA. >I did get the video but I can't say I understand the procedure. Spurred by >your reference to the company, I called them today to question them on how deep >the drill will go. My neighbors had to drill over 300 feet and the hydra-drill >is made to go only 200 or so. >How is your CSA doing? We are in our second year. We are running an ad in the >local paper to get more subscribers. We could use about 15 more this season. > >Martin Nyberg > >manfred palmer wrote: > >> Hi Martin: The hand pump is not shown on the web, but it's in the flyer i >> received from Deeprock last month along with other supplies. They sent it on >> request. >> Did you order the how-to video with your drill? or do you know all the >> relevant procedure ? >> We had some real dry spells last year, and I would prefer to be more >> prepared. >> Incidentally, Thanks for the CSA posting. I passed it along to my own CSA >> participants, and they really liked it. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Martin Nyberg >> To: bdnow@envirolink.org >> Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 3:18 PM >> Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump >> >> >Mr. Palmer, >> >Thanks for the info. I actually own a DeepRock hydra drill but have not >> used >> >it yet. I did not see hand-pumps on the web site. >> >Martin Nyberg >> > >> >> > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 00:22:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11189 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 00:22:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA00449; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 00:12:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA00278 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 00:11:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA13048; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:15:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:15:14 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: Intergalactic Garage cc: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: artificial insemination In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 324 Not very good. But convenient. M. On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Well for yet another to jump in here who has even less knowledge > about all this breeding stuff, I would like to then ask the question > if electro-magnetic fields induce "negative effects" on systems with > water, what are we doing using microwave machines to heat up food > with water content? > > Mista Keen > > > AS Julie said earlier, permit me, who has had no experience in animal > > mating at all, to jump in. > > Using electricity, or is it electromagnetism, to induce semen production > > makes use, or perhaps, mis-use, of the Fallen Light and Fallen Chemical > > Ethers. As Alan Hall's book showed, these electric and electro-magnetic > > fields induce negative effects on systems with water, and that includes > > semen, which is then passed on to generations of cattle. > > Michael (BC) > > > > On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Julie M. wrote: > > > > > Dear Ferdy & Martha, > > > > > > I'd like to jump in on this thread as I have some rather strong feelings on > > > the whole AI > > > thing... > > > > > > First of all, I was completely enchanted with your description Ferdy, of > > > what ACTUALLY occurs during the mating process. I've not developed the > >"eye" > > > to see this firsthand, but you give me something to strive for. > > > > > > One thing that actually shocked (no pun intended) me, when I learned of it > > > is the procedure whereby bulls are electrically induced to produce semen. > > > This inhumanity was VERY disturbing to me and I wondered what effect this > > > might have on the bull, the semen & resulting offspring. > > > > > > Another aspect, on a completely mundane level, that was recently suggested > > > on my local farming list, was that if companies like Monsanto can retain > > > "rights" over any future crops their seed might produce, what implications > > > might this hold for AI and any future heifers that a company's semen might > > > produce? > > > > > > And I would also like to take exception to the implication that using AI > > > diversifies the gene pool. I think it has the opposite effect. Semen > >ads now > > > tout the benefit "outcross" on many of the newer bulls because of this very > > > problem. There is so much "Mason/Sooner/Boomer" blood in American Jersey > > > herds today (because of AI) that the cattle are weakened. The breed > > > societies are actually encouraging people to crossbreed their cattle, then > > > breed > > > them back to Jersey or Swiss or whatever, a few more times...after a couple > > > generations they can get purebred papers! And I have said before that the > > > semen folks do not breed for temperament, good health, efficiency on grass, > > > etc. (Although New Zealanders are much better about this) Here, we have > > > created > > > udders that the frame of a cow can barely support, completely out of > > > proportion! This invites problems, and that's why the average life of a US > > > dairy cow is 5 years! > > > > > > The problem with breeding a cow to an oversized bull or larger breed is a > > > bad management call, period. It is bad farming that is a result of > > > greed...(a decision probably made by a cowboy-rancher who's never had to > > > deliver a 10-lb baby!) To portray it as the result of natural service is > > > inaccurate. It also smacks of the whole > > > techno-superiority complex that our society suffers from - that an AI > > > technician is better qualified than the farmer in determining the bull of > > > choice. Farmers have lost faith in their knowledge/experience, animals, > > > land, and placed their faith into the hands scientists & big corporations. > > > > > > So Steiner was right, IMO, we've brought problems into our herds with this > > > technology (and we appear to be attacking the next link in the food chain, > > > with GE plants!) > > > > > > Technology is like fire...a marvelous tool, when used with wisdom - but in > > > the hands of children (like our scientists/techies) downright deadly! > > > > > > Julie > > > > > > > > > > > Clive > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 01:12:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA12283 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:12:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA03191; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 00:59:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03049 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 00:57:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA15688; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:01:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:01:14 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: igg@igg.com cc: bdnow@envirolink.org, demeter@baldcom.net Subject: IFOAM mtg. Victoria, BC, 2002 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 325 I just received the "BC Organic Grower" where it is announced that the Can. Organic Growers (COG) is hosting the 14th International Scientific and Technical Conference (IFOAM) in Victoria, on Vancouver Island, BC, in August, 2002. A large BD prescence would be nice. Next year will be in Basel. Michael (BC) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 01:17:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA12367 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA03475; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:05:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (780@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA03307 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:01:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mroboz@localhost) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA15903; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:05:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:05:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Roboz To: igg@igg.com cc: bdnow@envirolink.org, demeter@baldcom.net Subject: Re: IFOAM mtg. Victoria, BC, 2002 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 326 I forgot to list the contact parameters: Anne Macey 250-537-5511 macey@saltspring.com http://www.gks.com/IFOAM-2002/ M. On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Michael Roboz wrote: > I just received the "BC Organic Grower" where it is announced that the > Can. Organic Growers (COG) is hosting the 14th International Scientific > and Technical Conference (IFOAM) in Victoria, on Vancouver Island, BC, in > August, 2002. > A large BD prescence would be nice. > > > Next year will be in Basel. > Michael (BC) > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 05:25:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA14570 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA12938; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:11:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA12832 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:08:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.125] (pm3shep4-163-179.intrepid.net [209.190.163.179]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA21273 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:09:49 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:10:44 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Flow Form Moulds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 327 Dear Folks, Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him how to cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, capabale with tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy castings if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? Best, Hugh Lovel From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 05:26:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA14578 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:26:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA13176; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:17:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA13090 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:16:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.125] (pm3shep4-163-179.intrepid.net [209.190.163.179]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA21825 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:17:44 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:12:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: IFOAM mtg. Victoria, BC, 2002 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 328 I forgot to list the contact parameters: Anne Macey 250-537-5511 macey@saltspring.com http://www.gks.com/IFOAM-2002/ M. On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Michael Roboz wrote: > I just received the "BC Organic Grower" where it is announced that the > Can. Organic Growers (COG) is hosting the 14th International Scientific > and Technical Conference (IFOAM) in Victoria, on Vancouver Island, BC, in > August, 2002. > A large BD prescence would be nice. > > > Next year will be in Basel. > Michael (BC) > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 05:31:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA14606 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:31:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA13143; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:17:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA13085 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:16:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.125] (pm3shep4-163-179.intrepid.net [209.190.163.179]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA21820 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:17:41 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:12:41 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: IFOAM mtg. Victoria, BC, 2002 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 329 I just received the "BC Organic Grower" where it is announced that the Can. Organic Growers (COG) is hosting the 14th International Scientific and Technical Conference (IFOAM) in Victoria, on Vancouver Island, BC, in August, 2002. A large BD prescence would be nice. Next year will be in Basel. Michael (BC) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 08:07:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA17310 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20796; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:56:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20630 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:54:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp219.cy-net.net [208.21.195.28]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01101 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:10:32 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5654.4DD997E0@FLYLO>; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 06:52:49 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5654.4DD997E0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: Doreen Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 06:52:48 -0600 Encoding: 13 TEXT, 80 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 330 A bit gun shy about posting until I know all my attachment problems are fixed, but this may be a workaround. (We'll see.) I feel so lucky to have met Doreen Howard, and even more so for being offered the chance to grow out some of the heirloom seeds she has provided. Yes, the Summer Knight (a black tomato) acted like an indeterminate in my garden last season. As I saved first and last fruit, I suspect it'll be a curious test this year. I also 'borrowed' some fruit from a tiny tomato called Texas Wild, and hope it takes off for me like it did for Doreen. Doreen is garden editor for Woman's Day magazine, contributing columnist for Horticulture magazine, and always conducting test trials in her gardens. I hope more topics on BD NOW entice her to post to this list. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C$,`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&)D;F]W0&5N=FER;VQI;FLN;W)G`%-- M5% `8F1N;W= 96YV:7)O;&EN:RYO&5KX!'@!P``$````'```` M1&]R965N```"`7$``0```!8````!OE:&EXH=C%+HP:<1TK$1`,#P*6@A```> M`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````$@```&9L>6QO0'1X8WEB97(N M8V]M`````P`&$#%<^R0#``<0J (``!X`"! !````90```$%"251'54Y32%E! M0D]55%!/4U1)3D=53E1)3$E+3D]704Q,35E!5%1!0TA-14Y44%)/0DQ%35-! M4D5&25A%1"Q"55142$E334%90D5!5T]22T%23U5.1"A714Q,4T5%*4E&144` M`````@$)$ $```#I!P``Y0<``'@/``!,6D9U5G> CP,`"@!R8W!G,3(UP4RAU8FH%D'17L$1AZ'1E.C8D-D__40]2'_]3+U0Y,< ]HPXA2Z$Z MM@Y0FU5O5GY2.8$7`2!(/9'[!) V)#=9;UI_6X]##W>'!Q40& ;E@P`& ) M\$V@[WT``@$UX%Y290#P?0`Q@$N 8 Y0=@B0=VL+@&3/:T"#P@3P!T!E.25 M#@#O<2(]@H45`A!O!4(7(1+R#5C ;0M16, @0SI #8'-O`8 @KD\!( W@@Q!2CY.?E*]L:T!&T&R23_N7#Y@5*9$7Y]OH'^.$&,0H<*.GZ,O_Z0_D1PH`*'/IT^H7ZEOCA#_> "F3ZO?K.^M M] KY`S!X+T-Y/WK->T$@8DW (,QG=0.@, PP'#@S'0:7%0AD#[B$"]\60$(#'!O]$$(+IA[X/ `0"]4 J%60>0NX## MDFU8$&T'@ 7 2P,`M7(H=YA@`F `T&N_H0# O[ IO[> L^##86=P1J#!42"P M4K]8P#7@"X"'8K-1N8%G"Q%_P+$+8#%PO>%+0 (@O6!!_P0@N-!&4&?0-2!N MT!<`!4#WP6+-0P-0=4W NX#.0;4@]X!@L^#+@'2]LKQS?1 %$%\(8 0@6,#- M8;OC>3V0-RO[&W\K^BN^-G<#%PW\>VLK2S?[2/!4![`, `(/\6X*U@#-#*D *2 M")#6X (`]];@/; `('D2\NR!"X#-80)[8D!94$523$D,3DL]< ) <#HO+^)W M[O N9V5]`$W!!Y!R+@6@;2]B40`@#U%DLVU0[#)S+QZ@%" OL%)T>"ZU@&T# M( *0$O)D?5BP8>PC.I$+@%E #I ``-#)ZGGYNLX1`(R"`*H`2ZD+5 (`], # M],'@\\UT&?3!: #V,/8P< `Z% `O]P%W]T,N`&<``&4`;P!C`&EW]H'X4/?P M<_>A^##X$&U%]P%(]^%A`'+V@6S1^<%N`&3W`4;X@_HPU_J0^-#W$#7[H3#[ MH?<0]_A0^G+W\'CWH?9R^5#Z,/_TP!H0`I+6X!<`3G$(P0OR_W\5[H_OG_"O M\;3]L@J%Z!8*??3!``1P`````P`0$ `````#`!$0``````,`@!#_____0 `' M,"#[V;"$5KX!0 `(,"#[V;"$5KX!"P``@ @@!@``````P ```````$8````` M`X4````````#``* "" &``````# ````````1@`````0A0````````,`!8 ( M( 8``````, ```````!&`````%*%``"W#0``'@`E@ @@!@``````P `````` M`$8`````5(4```$````$````."XP``,`)H (( 8``````, ```````!&```` M``&%````````"P`O@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````#H4````````#`#" M"" &``````# ````````1@`````1A0````````,`,H (( 8``````, ````` M``!&`````!B%````````'@!!@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````-H4```$` M```!`````````!X`0H (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#>%```!`````0`` M```````>`$. "" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0````$````````` :'@`]``$````!``````````,`#33]-P``]:8` ` end From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 08:28:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA17486 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:28:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA22302; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:16:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd102.hotmail.com [207.82.252.166]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA22029 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:13:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 18035 invoked by uid 0); 12 Feb 1999 13:14:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19990212131445.18034.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:14:45 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Internet Message on Stream and Salmon Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:14:45 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 331 Here's one more for those inspired, to beef stream unspired: rock and root Mollis son did say, at turn meander, ma did sway. angels at each turn devine, falling, fallin into time. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 08:29:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA17513 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:29:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA22507; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:19:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd130.hotmail.com [207.82.252.194]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA22329 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:17:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 19701 invoked by uid 0); 12 Feb 1999 13:18:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19990212131818.19700.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:18:18 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:18:18 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 332 Hugh, I've been collecting bits and pieces here and there of dimentions of the forms, some from NZ. How do we get in touch with him? Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 08:49:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA17819 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:49:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA24467; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:40:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA24181 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:38:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10BIos-00017w-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:39:47 +0000 Message-ID: <36C42CDF.17AFE92D@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:30:07 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K - and some Soya flour... References: <36C2B7D2.19A9D85A@direct.ca> <36C2EC61.F00857C6@watating.demon.co.uk> <36C36A36.FF672FD@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 333 Ferdy When I lived in Trinidad there was a murder in the next lane to me (two women and a baby), I witnessed four men break into the house opposite and make a hell of a noise stealing their car. Vagrants used to jump the 5' fence of the house diagonally opposite, usually took nothing but I had to sleep over with my neighbour because she was so frightened. These three houses lived in fear. Utterly. The single woman told me not to go out after dark, it was too dangerous. I am either lucky or blessed or have a particularly attentive guardian angel because nothing ever happened to me yet some of my neighbours repeatedly had trouble. I cannot help but feel their fear attracted those incidents to a certain extent. I don't quite understand what you're saying in your first paragraph. I think we _are_ worried in the UK and we are just as capable of panic actions as the next country but maybe there is a certain amount of 'war' attitude left. My grandmother occassionally said she missed the war because that's when they really pulled together and shared what they had. The answer to the problem in my eyes is to do what so many of you are doing already - to find a sustainable way of producing food, locally. And to rebuild our communities. Not being directly involved in either at present I am shamefully doing less than perhaps I could. There's fear and there's preparation. You speak to many people from World War II but and they weren't so much afraid as determined to be well prepared for invasion. Just some thoughts. Alison P.S. The dangers of email are in giving a wrong impression and I am not saying we have no fear, I'm just trying to say I'm beginning to feel it may sweep us away when what we really need is planning, imaginative planning. Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Well, Alison, how much can the 'average' (if there is such a person) the average > person bear. Since most of the people do not fly on January 1st, 2000, why be > concerned. And a few hours without electricity, haven't we experienced that > before? And, Alison, being on an Island (having spent 6 years in the UK) well, > does the Continent have a problem - or Good Old England? Deserves them right > those Germans......! You know what I mean. We won the war so, why worry? The > English are mostly people who take a long range view, the way I know them. So, > GE is certainly their cup of tea. > > Yet, the picture, as I have pointed out, looks different. Whereas GE is a long > range problem (and has its 'humble' beginning RIGHT NOW), the Y2K bug had its > humble beginning some 40 years ago and is acting out is perverse behaviour (and > hopefully not!). We shall see. In the long run, however, GE manipulation may be > much more of a problem than the Y2K bug (unless we have a meltdown or some of an > atomic power plant - that, certainly would GE manipulate many a plant, animal > and human being over the long run. > > At this point, my friend, one can only hope and act responsibly. Martha's list > and her concern for the neighbours is the best thing one can do as an > individual. To get people like my son going (like mad) and to solve the problem, > is another thing. He told me a few days ago that he re-set a soya mill in > Vancouver in early December. They would have gone flat, a meltdown, he said. > (no problem with soya flour) But, what irks him most - at this point in time - > they still have not paid their bill for bailing them out. > > All the best Ferdinand > > ALISON EADES wrote: > > > This is really interesting. There is a lot of discussion over here about the > > Millenium Bug (in the UK) and possible upsets but Joe Bloggs in the street > > isn't really worried. One or two people have proposed planting a bit more of > > a vegetable garden this year but there's no great panic. On the radio they > > were saying there's no need for bulk buying. The papers have been a bit > > worried about aircraft crashing into each other. It just strikes me as odd > > that there appears to be a lot more concern and preparation in the States > > than in the UK over the Bug, yet the other way around for genetic > > engineering. > > > > Alison > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > To all: > > > My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty programmes > > > only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and > > > eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin indicated, > > > IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help to > > > be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes off. > > > Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated > > > that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee the > > > hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said that > > > they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon Alaska > > > Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may not > > > be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator ready > > > plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other > > > helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. > > > etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What may > > > truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand (stay > > > cool) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 08:52:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA17859 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:52:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA24415; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:40:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA24176 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:38:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10BIoq-00017a-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:39:45 +0000 Message-ID: <36C4275D.F9B2450E@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:06:37 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BDNow Subject: GE - some good news? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 334 OK, good news. Lead story in The Guardian newspaper today tells of 20 international scientists who have signed an "unprecedented memorandum supporting the findings of suppressed research which found that rats fed on genetically modified potatoes suffered a weakened immune systme and damage to vital organs." "In a report published for the first time today, the sicentists from 13 countries also demand the immediate professional rehabilitation of the British Scientist Dr Arpad Pusztai, who discovered these preliminary findings last year and was forced to retire after speaking out about his concerns. "Dr pusztai's pioneering research into the effectsof GM crops on animal nutrition and the environment including feeding GM potatoes to rats to determine fo rthe first time whetehr they had any harmful effects ... "The unexpected results of the Ł1.6 million Scottish Office-funded research project showed that after 10 days of feeding trials the development of the kidney, thymus, spleen and gut wer adversely affected. The research also showed the rats' immune systems were weakened." It goes on. Its probably on their website today: www.guardian.co.uk Alison From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 10:05:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19516 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:05:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01121; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:54:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd114.hotmail.com [207.82.252.178]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00972 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:53:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9970 invoked by uid 0); 12 Feb 1999 14:54:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990212145429.9969.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 06:54:28 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: Recent Aids Research Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 06:54:28 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 335 To All, The recent revelation concerning the origination of the AIDS virus from a research group in the U.S. is only replication of a French Study done approximately 15 years ago. In both conclusions the transmission occured from humans eating monkey. Now they're trying to feed us the bull. Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 10:29:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19876 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:29:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA04007; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:20:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03618 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:17:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp219.cy-net.net [208.21.195.28]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA16843 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:33:33 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5668.31E17800@FLYLO>; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:15:12 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5668.31E17800@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: OFF: Error Sears Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:15:11 -0600 Encoding: 10 TEXT, 71 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 336 I was in error by mentioning Sears Farm and Ranch Catalog as a possible source for hand water pumps. I called and Sears no longer offers catalog sales of any sort. I mentioned that the managers who made that judgement call REALLY missed the boat on the Y2K issue, and the poor recipient of my phone call didn't have a clue what I was talking about. Some of the water pump mfg sources are Jacuzzi, Ruth Berry, and though all are electric, they might have ideas about the old fashioned pitcher pump. Also, any Mennonite or Amish community probably has inroads to those sources as well. martha begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@P/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&)D;F]W0&5N=FER;VQI;FLN;W)G`%-- M5% `8F1N;W= 96YV:7)O;&EN:RYOYI6O@$> M`' ``0```!(```!/1D8Z("!%Y&_0GXK\F3RH?*=TI7R>/*U0Y#E ?+J0P`2@C, `"@G-T>>IL!Y!H">!T M```34 /P4&1C=&P*L5PR6&&89&IU,7 %$&=H!4([%C(,`6,)P#)@`S!S;GQE M>!DTYF)A%Q!D`B UH#5&YS'0,Y [ MD2 Q,3,.4#:?_S>O.+\`43G\`* T;CQ_/8;_,20/P#Z//Y] KPY0.>]##]M$ M'SVS,P*"$Q!C-F!+H9,SD#VP=&DYD"!$`1"H875L!4!0"L!A"<#@87!H($8" M(38D)4#H9FDM#Y X`4 Y,% SZTP1&'H=&4Z M-B0V3_]1#U(?_U,O5#DQP#VC#B%+H3JV#E";56]6?E(Y@1ZA-44CL>7 $ MD&=Q:QH!>-)X,/=X<'%1`8!N6# `8 GP3:#O?0`"`37@7E)E`/!]`#& 2X!@ M#E!V")!W:PN 9,]K0(/"!/ '0&4Y)4 .`.]Q(CV"A14"$&\%0A"#$%R) M=D4`P/4#$"Y+<'2 \!<0>' U(>UG-94)F?_YY?GV^@?XX08Q"APHZ?HR__I#^1 M'"@`H<^G3ZA?J6^.$/]X`*9/J]^L[ZWT"OD#,'@OXWD_>LU[22!MD 0@LU%' M!) #8 7 8GD@?3)I_P(@/<(&8!;Q3S *P(A `'#]-2!2`' 6T(>06+ '0(@` M][D@!""88' 38 "0`F 3@/>)( APB; @@I$]<+DR;9 +6, %P'!]('!S+B!_ MMK"$L3&@-2"Y,KB$$U @_PD`#W"\88DP$%"XL82PN?3_1E QH;[!N2&WL(D@ M`""\XONWU;UA=!;@!4#!L!. `X'S3M"_`G=HOD `P $`P:0]M1!DOI!],[TB M!_!%0?A,3%FWP 0!P8,3@ ;@Q\'1`B#!\UDR2[<`!!!]"E LN2/"`KJ@!;$: M\&/O!2 (D'U1P"%MM[!/$,%A]\1$/;",("<%0!;@3?&88/^-0 I0PL'!T;:T MN?&$`;HQZP;@9U N"H53`W 3@, A]\("O#BWP&:_H;M#NF$:\(0@2@#0=7IZ M:<<0UE)G4$\@0K=!><<6"&#_M7"Y(,1QSQ)GH8%A#>#'$/_"`;>QM6/*([/ M/9"Z8P# `" S%N#;AWT`W['?\ ```P`0$ `` M```#`!$0``````,`@!#_____0 `',& L?Y295KX!0 `(,& L?Y295KX!"P`` M@ @@!@``````P ```````$8``````X4````````#``* "" &``````# ```` M````1@`````0A0````````,`!8 (( 8``````, ```````!&`````%*%``"W M#0``'@`E@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````5(4```$````$````."XP``,` M)H (( 8``````, ```````!&``````&%````````"P`O@ @@!@``````P `` M`````$8`````#H4````````#`#" "" &``````# ````````1@`````1A0`` M``````,`,H (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!B%````````'@!!@ @@!@`` M````P ```````$8`````-H4```$````!`````````!X`0H (( 8``````, ` M``````!&`````#>%```!`````0`````````>`$. "" &``````# ```````` M1@`````XA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$````'````3T9&.B @```#``TT &_3<`` ` end From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 10:42:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20217 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:42:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA05781; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:32:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd129.hotmail.com [207.82.252.193]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA05532 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:31:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 29633 invoked by uid 0); 12 Feb 1999 15:32:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990212153229.29631.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:32:29 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Study: Saturn Quest ion Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:32:29 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 337 Although this is only the second year I have used the calendar "Stella Natura", is seems impossible to ignore the fact that our sun has relation ship with Saturn during the same period that Steiner termed the "Period of Crystalization". Can a member or members of this list confirm or deny this relationship? Thanks, Michael ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 10:53:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA21206 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:53:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA07135; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:43:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06740 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:40:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from khansen (awi0113.animalwelfare.com [207.96.27.29]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA20195 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:43:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <013601be569e$ad768600$1d1b60cf@khansen.animalwelfare.com> From: "Kelly Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Recent Aids Research Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:45:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 338 Actually, to be more specific, the report states that one strain of the AIDS virus was probably transmitted to bushmeat hunters from chimpanzees through direct blood contact when the chimps were slaughtered-and perhaps if a person ate a bloody and uncooked piece of fresh chimpanzee meat. The blood on the meat probably came into contact with a sore or broken membrane in a person's mouth, and the virus was trasmitted that way. The AIDS virus is a rather fragile one, and cannot survive outside of a body for very long. It would be highly (very, very) unlikely for someone to contract HIV or AIDS through cooked meat. I was quite suprised when I first saw headlines screaming that AIDS was introduced to humans by eating cooked bushmeat. Fortunately, Roger Fouts, a terribly famous primatologist and defender of the chimpanzee, called my office (I work in animal welfare) and I was able to get the full skinny from him. Keep Well, Kelly -----Original Message----- From: Michael Smith To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 9:56 AM Subject: OFF: Recent Aids Research >To All, > >The recent revelation concerning the origination of the AIDS virus from >a research group in the U.S. is only replication of a French Study done >approximately 15 years ago. In both conclusions the transmission >occured from humans eating monkey. Now they're trying to feed us the >bull. > >Michael. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 11:30:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22521 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:30:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11851; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:21:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.153]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11011 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:16:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.19.43]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:18:15 +0000 Message-ID: <36C45472.7A2B@cwcom.net> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:18:58 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Text wrap Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 339 Martha, Linda, Ferdy and others - Thanks for your helpful comments. I was off-line yesterday and will make only this comment before dropping the thread, which I guess is about exhausted. I like the idea of saving to a word-pro programme, so that one can generally edit and blend various postings as well as fix the long lines, but I'm still struggling with how to achieve it. I'm afraid your test message, Martha, still came through in long lines, so we're not yet in synch. I've checked through all the options and preferences in Navigator Gold 3, which is what I'm currently using for e-mail, and the only control I seem to have as recipient is the View - Wrap Long Lines which I've already mentioned; but I'm plucking up courage to load Navigator 4 - I don't know if that offers any further option. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 11:30:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22557 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:30:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11467; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:19:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10781 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:14:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-17.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.18]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id IAA10896 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:16:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902121616.IAA10896@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:06:55 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 340 Hugh: Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial and error that John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? Woody At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >Dear Folks, > >Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him how to >cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, capabale with >tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy castings >if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? > >Best, >Hugh Lovel > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 11:50:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA23015 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:50:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA15013; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:42:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.104]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14588 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:40:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.2.77]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:41:53 +0000 Message-ID: <36C45A60.1AE@cwcom.net> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:44:16 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Text wrap (last!) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 341 Martha - picking up my mail after my previous message, your recent postings are now arriving in short lines ! Tony N-S From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 11:58:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA23220 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:58:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16007; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:50:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA15636 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:47:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.130]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:49:43 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990212084322.00808230@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:43:22 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad von Zirkwitz Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds In-Reply-To: <199902121616.IAA10896@ns2.vphos.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 342 Why cannot these natural forms of nature be shared? Is it really helping the whole world clean up effort when flowforms are still mystical and only a select group of initiates know how to make them and are selling the design specs? Curious, Conrad >Hugh: > >Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial and error >that >John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? > >Woody > >At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Dear Folks, >> >>Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him how to >>cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, capabale with >>tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy castings >>if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? >> >>Best, >>Hugh Lovel >> > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 12:04:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23353 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:04:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16655; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:56:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16353 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:53:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp219.cy-net.net [208.21.195.28]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA30871 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:09:27 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5675.80401BC0@FLYLO>; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:50:27 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5675.80401BC0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Recent Aids Research Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:50:26 -0600 Encoding: 3 TEXT, 63 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 343 Is this the same headlines that show the US link to BSE by the fact that the victims had dined on squirrel brains? martha (tx) begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AL0`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&)D;F]W0&5N=FER;VQI;FLN;W)G`%-- M5% `8F1N;W= 96YV:7)O;&EN:RYOY&_0GXK\F3RH?*=TI7R>/*U0Y#E ?+J0P`2@C M, `"@G-T>>IL!Y!H">!T```34 /P4&1C=&P*L5PR6&&89&IU,7 %$&=H!4([ M%C(,`6,)P#)@`S!S;GQE>!DTYF)A M%Q!D`B UH#5&YS'0,Y [D2 Q,3,.4#:?_S>O.+\`43G\`* T;CQ_/8;_,20/ MP#Z//Y] KPY0.>]##]M$'SVS,P*"$Q!C-F!+H9,SD#VP=&DYD"!$`1"H875L M!4!0"L!A"<#@87!H($8"(38D)4#H9FDM#Y X`4 Y,% SZTP1&'H=&4Z-B0V3_]1#U(?_U,O5#DQP#VC#B%+H3JV#E";56]6 M?E(Y@1ZA-44CL>7 $D&=Q:QH!>-)X,/=X<'%1`8!N6# `8 GP3:#O?0`" M`37@7E)E`/!]`#& 2X!@#E!V")!W:PN 9,]K0(/"!/ '0&4Y)4 .`.]Q(CV" MA14"$&\%0A"#$%R)=D4`P/4#$"Y+<'2 \!<0>' U(>UG-94)F?_YY?GV^@ M?XX08Q"APHZ?HR__I#^1'"@`H<^G3ZA?J6^.$/]X`*9/J]^L[ZWT"OD#,'@O MDWD_>LU[200@=&@$`/^VT1. 1E '@#US9W*VPEBP[;=@:+.@MR-5!?" DK;0 M`&\@0E-%(&)Y_[82 ]L0F ( (@MV#P<75I MP# `" 6X*U@#- IO=89O>9]`,+ MPO ````#`! 0``````,`$1 ``````P" $/____] ```"6 "" &``````# ````````1@````!4A0```0`` M``0````X+C ``P`F@ @@!@``````P ```````$8``````84````````+`"^ M"" &``````# ````````1@`````.A0````````,`,( (( 8``````, ````` M``!&`````!&%`````````P`R@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````&(4````` M```>`$& "" &``````# ````````1@`````VA0```0````$`````````'@!" M@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````-X4```$````!`````````!X`0X (( 8` M`````, ```````!&`````#B%```!`````0`````````>`#T``0````4```!2 113H@``````,`#33]-P``@#&% ` end From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 13:43:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA25469 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:43:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA24207; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:34:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from templar.fgi.net (root@templar.fgi.net [206.101.112.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23622 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:31:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from doreen (spi34.fgi.net [208.130.70.34]) by templar.fgi.net (8.9.0/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA02204 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:32:58 -0600 Message-ID: <005301be56b6$1a50eba0$224682d0@doreen> From: "Doreen Howard" To: Subject: Wrong Tomato Name! Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:32:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 344 It's Southern Night tomato, Martha!!! Not Summer Knight! I'd love to hear other's experiences with saving seeds and adaptation. What is really going to be interesting is how my Texas-adapted seeds are going to perform in Illinois Zone 5b. I'll be taking notes and photos!! Also, does anyone on this list use mycorrhizal fungi? Doreen Howard From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 13:50:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA25678 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:50:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25352; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:42:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25051 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:41:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from van-dsp-0149.direct.ca ([204.174.250.49] helo=ferdy) by edam.direct.ca with smtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10BNYS-0001ha-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:43:09 -0800 Message-ID: <36C51E4E.4A16@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:40:14 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: moonwater] References: <36BFAC41.532B@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 345 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > Subject: moonwater > Date: Sun, 7 Feb 99 16:41:01 -0800 > From: Lang Price > Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org > To: > > Hallo all: > > A friend of mine told me a while ago something about "Moonwater". > > This is water that has the influence of the light of the full moon before > Easter in it. Apparently it has an incredible positive influence on plant > growth and medicines etc. > I am very interested in learning more about this, so would appreciate > more info. > Thank you. > Marjan de Jong in wet British Columbia, Canada. Dear Marjan, Moonwater IS special and it can be tested. Now, tests are somewhat 'time consuming' as you have to 'catch' that water. And there are a number of moonwaterS. There is the water that you can expose to the moon There is the rainwater that is falling during full moon etc. There is the water that you shake in connection with full moon and Easter etc. Each of these waters has a different 'configuration' Water has the ability to lock 'up' cosmic messages that it, in turn, will pass on to the plant(s). So, make seed tests and see. I bet you will see the difference(s) with great amazement. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 15:00:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA26918 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:00:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA03444; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:52:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03048 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:48:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-16.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.48]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id LAA08338 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:50:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902121950.LAA08338@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:42:59 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990212084322.00808230@mail.alternatives.com> References: <199902121616.IAA10896@ns2.vphos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id OAA03056 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 346 Conrad: I don't think we're talking about corporate-style profiteering here. I'd guess no flowform maker on the planet has sold more than a couple hundred sets of the things. My point has to do with honoring the artistic work and craftsmanship [craftswomanship] of decades that went into the design of flowforms. If the man in Florida wants to duplicate some of that to design his own, more power to him. If someone [not Mr. Luzader certainly] were to make a mould of an existing design to cast their own replica, IMO that's a ripoff. Woody At 08:43 AM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Why cannot these natural forms of nature be shared? Is it really helping >the whole world clean up effort when flowforms are still mystical and only >a select group of initiates know how to make them and are selling the >design specs? > >Curious, Conrad > > >>Hugh: >> >>Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial and error >>that >>John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? >> >>Woody >> >>At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >>>Dear Folks, >>> >>>Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him how to >>>cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, capabale with >>>tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy castings >>>if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? >>> >>>Best, >>>Hugh Lovel >>>  >> >> > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 20:31:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA02450 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:31:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA11829; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:21:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11714 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:20:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-006.midcoast.com [208.153.20.106]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA03540 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:22:23 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990212201025.007ec140@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:10:25 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: Re: artificial insemination microwave Cooking In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 347 Dear Mista Regarding microwave ovens: I gave mine away three years ago. I don't knowingly eat anything that has been cooked or heated with microwaves. In order of descending negative effects, cooking methods line up like this: microwave (worst) electric stoves natural gas/propane wood sun light When evaluating cooking methods, examine your physical state of being and consciousness after eating food cooked with different methods. Do you feel nourished after eating food cooked in a microwave? Do you feel more awake or more conscious after eating microwave prepared food or drink? Do you feel safe standing next to a microwave when it is operating? My answer to these questions is "no!". I heavily used a microwave for ten years before I became convinced that it effected my heart rhythm. I actually experienced this the first time I turned it on, but I denied my own experience. Observe your reactions and draw your own conclusions. Its a good opportunity for a Goethean experiment. John Thomas St. George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA At 10:06 PM 2/11/99 -0500, you wrote: >Well for yet another to jump in here who has even less knowledge >about all this breeding stuff, I would like to then ask the question >if electro-magnetic fields induce "negative effects" on systems with >water, what are we doing using microwave machines to heat up food >with water content? > >Mista Keen From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 20:39:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA02551 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:39:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA13258; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:30:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from send203.yahoomail.com (send203.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.127]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA12202 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:25:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990213012802.11076.rocketmail@send203.yahoomail.com> Received: from [128.143.38.149] by send203.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:28:02 PST Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:28:02 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: Re: Y2K pumps and such To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 348 hey all, if you're concerned about y2k and even if you're not concerned, check out "Lehman's non-electric catalog" on the net. I went to a mennonite college in harrisonburg, virginia , and have lived around mennonites all my life in the Shenandoah Valley and nearby in Charlottesville, and many of them get everything from wood stoves with ovens to rubber boots and very tough outdoor work clothes from this source. I think they are located in Ohio or somewhere in the mid-west. they even have ram pumps that use falling water to pump water, for places where there is a river, but not enuf wind for a windmill. This is one worthy of everyone checking out! have fun! bruce ritchie _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 21:24:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA03323 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:24:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA17310; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:14:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from m4.boston.juno.com (m4.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.198]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA17237 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:14:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from dirkers@juno.com) by m4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D3A7S2E6; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:15:18 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:04:44 -0600 Subject: Y2K education Message-ID: <19990212.200451.13750.1.Dirkers@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-10,13-18 From: Christopher P Dirkers Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 349 We can probably expect more Y2K type crises in the next few years as our financial and agricultural cycles start down toward the trough of the next wave. These cycles are a necesary part of the overall Gaia process defined by Lovelock. P.Q. Wall refers to the human race as Unwitting Actors controlled by the forces of nature and not vice versa. As nature cycles (akin to breathing) man's fortunes rise and fall. The trends will also be used by our masters to push certain agenda's. I tell my students: No need to fear, just a need to get educated, then act. Christopher Dirkers -------------------------------------- Located in the beautiful Ozarks, Dirkers' Pleasant Valley School and Farm is dedicated to providing nourishment for mind and body. Classes include Family Preparedness, and Health & Agronomy. Dirkers' Pleasant Valley School & Farm HC62, Box 370-A Calico Rock, Arkansas. U.S.A. (72519) 870-297-8040 or dirkers@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 22:38:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04504 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:38:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA22833; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:28:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22734 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:27:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-134.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.134]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA15746 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:29:36 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C467D6.1D56@ipa.net> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:41:42 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: New BD pub from ATTRA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 350 I am delighted to report the publication of a brand new title in the Alternative Farming Systems series from ATTRA, "Biodynamic Farming and Compost Preparation." This is a 20-page overview on biodynamic agriculture with additional focus on the specialized practice of biodynamic compost. It provides, I think, a very nice summary of biodynamics with useful insights typical of the holistic perspective from ATTRA specialists. In addition, there are lots of resources, web links, and suggested reading. A web version will be available in a couple of weeks. To order (free) printed materials from ATTRA, call 800-346-9140 or 501-442-9824, 8:30am-4:30pm M-F CST. Steve Diver ATTRA http://www.attra.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 12 23:34:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05237 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:34:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA27456; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27164 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:21:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.188]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990213042310.DFXX682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:23:10 +1300 Message-ID: <36C4FE80.41E@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:24:32 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: tHE CARRIER OF THE EGO References: <1.5.4.16.19990120233858.2337b1e6@swva.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 351 Sorry for the delay in this reply, harvesting has drawn my attention elsewhere these past weeks. malcolm ian gardner wrote: > > At 07:25 AM 1/14/99 +1300, Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage wrote: > >Is Hydrogen or Carbon which carries the Ego into Physical form? > > Dear Glen, > > I think it is bizarre to try to keep biodynamics separate from anthroposophy. I am not sure wether this comment is meant to relate to me or as some more general statement. It is not my intention to separate BD and Anthroposophy or do I believe I have ever made such a statement. My own relationship to 'Anthroposophy' is that I have only limited access to it and/or inclination to delve into its extreme complexities and philosophies. What is practically useful in RS work interests me and where these 'greater verities' can be shown to have practical application I am more than willing to incorporate them in my view and work. More often than not though, it is my experience one easily has mountains of anhtroposophical information and little practically useful applications arising from it. In this regard Malcolm, I am most grateful for your ability to bridge this gap and make the big picture comphrensible and useful. > The > puzzle of the relationship of the elements of protein to the ego etc. described in the thrid > lecture of the Agriculture Course cannot be resolved without anthroposophy. I believe the > correspondences you suggested for the agricultural lecture are indeed correct, but it is > dangerous to support this merely with an out-of-context quote from another lecture. I do what I can with what I got. > What confuses people about the third lecture is Steiner's statement: "And just as the > human ego, the true human spirit, lives in carbon, so too does the universal ego in the spirit > of the universe live - via sulfur - in the ever forming and dissolving carbon" (p. 47). How > can this be reconciled with Steiner's other statement that the ego is actually related to > hydrogen, and that carbon is actually related to the physical body? Only by means of a study > of basic anthroposophy. > In his basic writings Steiner does not speak just of four "members" of the human being > (the physical, etheric, and astral bodies and the ego), he actually speaks of seven (or even > nine) members. We find that the latter three members (which he terms "spirit-self", > "life-spirit" and "spirit-man") are not so much additional members as they are > _transformations_ of the first three members. Human development, according to Steiner, > consists of the ego becoming strong enough to transform first the astral body (into > spirit-self), then the etheric or life-body (into life-spirit), and finally the physical body > (into spirit-man). The ego - or soul - becomes strong enough to spiritualize the three bodies > by allowing itself to be inwardly fertilized by the higher ego - or spirit. The higher ego is > spirit, the lower ego is soul. The highest expression of the higher ego comes about when it > works through the lower ego to transforms the physical body into a spiritual body, so-call! > ed spirit-man. This is what the alchemists were ultimately interested in. As Steiner says in > the third lecture, the alchemists' "Philosopher's Stone" was actually carbon, which may > manifest not only as black coal but also as transparent diamond. > It is the _higher_ ego, the "true human being" that is related to carbon and to the > physical body. The lower ego, on the other hand, is related to hydrogen. I think this is an > example of a fruitful contradiction. Whew, this is an intricate picture and one that brings up a few questions. Based on your description here, I can see how the higher spirit's work upon the carbon based physical body leads to the formation of Spirit-Man and hence the validity of the statement as you outlined. Following on from this it would then be appropriate I imagine to say the higher ego is carried by Oxygen in its working upon the etheric body to produce Life Spirit and carried by nitrogen in its transformation of the astral body to become spirit self. IS this a correct conclusion to draw? If so this may give some solution to other contradictions present in this discussion notably those provided by Konig in 'Earth and Man'. We may well also ask - what is the relevance of RS talking about states of human development when discussing agriculture and physical chemistry???? Was he simply providing a little booby trap for new players? OK, from your indications what we have is that, it is the lower ego or ego body which is carried into the physical being by Hydrogen. Why is it, do you think, RS made little differentiation between the usage of the words spirit and (lower) ego when speaking in the medical lectures of 1920 and late 1922? I suggest that in agriculture we are not dealing primarily with the Human Spirit Man manifestations of the spirit, but the lower ego manifestations of the spirit into matter and therefore it is far more appropriate and even truthful to bring this fact (that Hydrogen is the carrier of the Ego) to the fore in our Biodynamic discussions. For the Biodynamic movement in general to not have come to this as a general understanding 70 years on, (certainly the NZBD 'elite' do not have a clue about it) is surely a testament to the difficulty of working with Steiner and the shallowness of discussion and investigation amoungst our community. I admit this revelation of the elements of protein being the carriers of the spiritual activities in the physical is a profound, powerful and liberating insight and I can see why it may have needed concealing, but the time is right for the practical truth of the matter to come out and be used. Carbon as the carrier of the spirit maybe appropriate knowledge for making remedies appropriate for human spiritual development, but for us 'simple farmers' we must work with more mundane realities of soil and mineral elements for plant health. Once it is seen that hydrogen is the physical carrier of the spirit/ego in these realms we can proceed to see what is actually going on in the chemistry we must work with on a daily basis. All of a sudden too much acidity becomes too strong a working of the ego/spirit. How else can we develop a biodynamics utilising the spiritual bodies as our basic reference system if this 'fact' is not appreciated. Thank you again Malcolm for your broadening and clarifying insights, they are true gift to our group. regards Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 03:47:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA08167 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 03:47:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA10784; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 03:27:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA10727 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 03:26:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-2-p99.wolfenet.com [206.159.28.99]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00908 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:27:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C5348D.CACF307@seattle2000.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:15:11 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K pumps and such References: <19990213012802.11076.rocketmail@send203.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 352 Bruce, you forgot the link. What is the URL for the Web site? Thanks! Martin Nyberg bruce ritchie wrote: > hey all, > if you're concerned about y2k and even if you're not concerned, > check out "Lehman's non-electric catalog" on the net. I went to a > mennonite college in harrisonburg, virginia , and have lived around > mennonites all my life in the Shenandoah Valley and nearby in > Charlottesville, and many of them get everything from wood stoves with > ovens to rubber boots and very tough outdoor work clothes from this > source. I think they are located in Ohio or somewhere in the mid-west. > they even have ram pumps that use falling water to pump water, for > places where there is a river, but not enuf wind for a windmill. This > is one worthy of everyone checking out! have fun! bruce ritchie > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 05:55:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA08653 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:55:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA14416; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:45:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA14317 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:43:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.35]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 02:27:57 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990213022125.0080e9c0@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 02:21:25 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad von Zirkwitz Subject: Re: Y2K pumps and such In-Reply-To: <36C5348D.CACF307@seattle2000.com> References: <19990213012802.11076.rocketmail@send203.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 353 http://www.lehmans.com/ At 12:15 AM 2/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >Bruce, you forgot the link. What is the URL for the Web site? >Thanks! >Martin Nyberg > >bruce ritchie wrote: > >> hey all, >> if you're concerned about y2k and even if you're not concerned, >> check out "Lehman's non-electric catalog" on the net. I went to a >> mennonite college in harrisonburg, virginia , and have lived around >> mennonites all my life in the Shenandoah Valley and nearby in >> Charlottesville, and many of them get everything from wood stoves with >> ovens to rubber boots and very tough outdoor work clothes from this >> source. I think they are located in Ohio or somewhere in the mid-west. >> they even have ram pumps that use falling water to pump water, for >> places where there is a river, but not enuf wind for a windmill. This >> is one worthy of everyone checking out! have fun! bruce ritchie >> >> _________________________________________________________ >> DO YOU YAHOO!? >> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 05:55:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA08665 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:55:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA14458; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:46:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA14328 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:43:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10BcZW-0003YE-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:45:14 +0000 Message-ID: <36C48841.8DA5CBDA@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:00:01 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Text wrap References: <36C45472.7A2B@cwcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 354 Tony/Martha You've probably seen this and I'm not sure if its for sending or receiving but if you go to: Edit, Preferences, Mail Groups Meassages ... There is a box for 'Wrap lines at [72] characters' which you can alter. This is in Netscape 4.04 so I don't know if you have it in your version or not. Alison Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > Martha, Linda, Ferdy and others - Thanks for your helpful comments. I > was off-line yesterday and will make only this comment before dropping > the thread, which I guess is about exhausted. I like the idea of saving > to a word-pro programme, so that one can generally edit and blend > various postings as well as fix the long lines, but I'm still struggling > with how to achieve it. I'm afraid your test message, Martha, still > came through in long lines, so we're not yet in synch. I've checked > through all the options and preferences in Navigator Gold 3, which is > what I'm currently using for e-mail, and the only control I seem to have > as recipient is the View - Wrap Long Lines which I've already mentioned; > but I'm plucking up courage to load Navigator 4 - I don't know if that > offers any further option. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 10:24:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10102 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:24:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA27950; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:15:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27876 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:15:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.197] (client-151-196-125-197.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.197]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19108 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:16:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902131516.KAA19108@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:05:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 355 Dear BDNow colleagues, In the course of discussion on this thread, some people (can't remember who) suggested that we do something -- send out some kind of message. I'd like to second (or maybe third) that idea. Here's a proposal: We could change the name of this thread to "GEO Consensus." Then through discussion we could weave a statement expressing the sense of this list in a document that we could send on to Johnny's Seeds -- and wherever else appropriate. Maybe Allan would post it on the BDNow web site. I know Demeter and many organic groups have already published formal statements on GEOs and seeds and such, but I think with the kind of penetrating insight available from the many participants on this list, we could develop an additionally helpful statement. My sense is not to tell Johnny's -- or anyone else -- what to do. But rather to express clearly our deepest thoughts and feelings on these important matters, to give them additional food for thought. What do you say? If the proposal is seen as good idea by list participants, I would volunteer to collect (cut and paste) the various statements and insights into a coherent document -- and then post and repost it till we have consensus -- and then see that it gets mailed or archived or whatever. If we do not attain consensus, we have no statement. I can live with that. Either way, I think the exercise will be healthy and helpful. What do you say. Respectfully, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 12:24:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11889 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:24:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA07788; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:16:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from www3.iname.net (www3.iname.net [165.251.12.23]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA07725 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:16:04 -0500 (EST) From: pamdetray@email.com Received: by www3.iname.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) id MAA13952 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9902131217423Z.24107@www3.iname.net> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:17:42 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Record Tools address? Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 356 One of the items I lost when my computer died was the address for Record Tools in Vancouver, Wa. Could someone post this for me? Thanks. Pam DeTray ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 14:05:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13058 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:05:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14531; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:56:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from Rt66.com (mack.rt66.com [198.59.162.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14361 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:55:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from RT66.com (pmc13.rt66.com [204.134.97.33]) by Rt66.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA29356 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:56:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36C5CA52.8EAD42F3@RT66.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:54:11 -0700 From: Thomas Schley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Salmonids References: <19990211134508.15295.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 357 Michael, I noticed your message to Ferdinand and your question regarding salmon that die after spawning. There is a major difference between Atlantic salmon (one species only, Salmo salar), and the several species of Pacific salmon of North America and Asia. All (or virtually all) Pacific salmon die after swimming upstream to spawn. With Atlantic salmon some individuals, I forget what percentage, do survive their first spawning and return to the sea to come back again to their spawning stream if they survive their second sea voyage. Speaking of methods of taking eggs and milt (sperm) from salmonids, I worked in New Zealand where we netted wild trout to collect and fertilize eggs. We never cut into the fish. Instead we gently stroked their bellies to squeeze out the eggs and milt which were then mixed gently by hand in a bucket of water. Squeezing out the eggs was pretty easy in ripe fish since they were almost ready to come out on their own. I cannot imagine anyone in the BC hatcheries acutally having to cut into a fish! That would be downright stupid, not to say cruel. BTW we raised the trout only to fingerling size to restock streams where their wild populations had been depleted by disasters such as flooding, drought or volcanic eruptions. Thank you for allowing me to speak out of my own experience, insight and opinion. Tom From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 15:03:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA13548 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19141; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:55:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18828 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:52:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.151.41.197]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:03:33 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:54:29 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Farming/Gardening Tools Message-ID: <35817C9F47AE66FB85256717006D473B.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 358 The phone number for : Record Tools 905-428-7555 fax 905-428-1077 voice Their U. S rep is (called Record this morning): Seelbinder Sales 411 East 29th St. Vancouver, Wa 98663 360-696-0141 Steve From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 16:09:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA14264 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA24845; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:00:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from sun.3rivers.net (smokey.nemontel.net [208.136.178.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24522 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:57:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from arthun (p208.montanavision.com [208.136.182.208]) by sun.3rivers.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22647 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:59:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902132059.NAA22647@sun.3rivers.net> From: "Kevin Arthun" To: Subject: Unsubscribe Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:47:26 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 359 Please take me off the list. Thanks! Kevin Arthun From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 23:24:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA18666 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:24:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA25966; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:14:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25799 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:11:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.125] (pm3shep3-163-128.intrepid.net [209.190.163.128]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20020 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:12:51 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:58:24 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 360 Jennifer Greene in Blue Hill , Maine. She has a whole water institute called Blue Hill Inst. She travels constantly. Last year, she came to Duncan, BC, on Vancouver Island, to make several moulds over in a workshop over a few days.. Each of those ones were about CA$800to buy. M. Michael Roboz From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 23:24:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA18674 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:24:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA26041; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:14:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25812 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:11:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.125] (pm3shep3-163-128.intrepid.net [209.190.163.128]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20067 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:13:01 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:10:11 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id XAA25813 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 361 Conrad: I don't think we're talking about corporate-style profiteering here. I'd guess no flowform maker on the planet has sold more than a couple hundred sets of the things. My point has to do with honoring the artistic work and craftsmanship [craftswomanship] of decades that went into the design of flowforms. If the man in Florida wants to duplicate some of that to design his own, more power to him. If someone [not Mr. Luzader certainly] were to make a mould of an existing design to cast their own replica, IMO that's a ripoff. Woody At 08:43 AM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Why cannot these natural forms of nature be shared? Is it really helping >the whole world clean up effort when flowforms are still mystical and only >a select group of initiates know how to make them and are selling the >design specs? > >Curious, Conrad > > >>Hugh: >> >>Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial and error >>that >>John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? >> >>Woody >> >>At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >>>Dear Folks, >>> >>>Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him how to >>>cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, capabale with >>>tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy castings >>>if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? >>> >>>Best, >>>Hugh Lovel >>>Ý >> >> > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 23:24:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA18687 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:24:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA26003; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:14:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25804 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:11:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.125] (pm3shep3-163-128.intrepid.net [209.190.163.128]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20044 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:12:58 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902131516.KAA19108@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:09:13 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 362 Dear Steve - I appreciate the fact that you see the value in making such a statement. I remain concerned that the Johnny's issue has attracted relatively little attention on a list as large as this one. Maybe your offer to make all the posts 'coherent' will attract more people to state what is in their hearts. We will be posting a seed list on the BD Now! website shortly. Such a statement will be an appropriate addition to the listing for Johnny's. I am also interested in sending a copy directly to JOhnny's CEO, Rob Johnston, of course. Sincerely, -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com >Dear BDNow colleagues, > >In the course of discussion on this thread, some people (can't remember who) >suggested that we do something -- send out some kind of message. I'd like >to second (or maybe third) that idea. > >Here's a proposal: >We could change the name of this thread to "GEO Consensus." Then through >discussion we could weave a statement expressing the sense of this list in a >document that we could send on to Johnny's Seeds -- and wherever else >appropriate. Maybe Allan would post it on the BDNow web site. > >I know Demeter and many organic groups have already published formal >statements on GEOs and seeds and such, but I think with the kind of >penetrating insight available from the many participants on this list, we >could develop an additionally helpful statement. > >My sense is not to tell Johnny's -- or anyone else -- what to do. But >rather to express clearly our deepest thoughts and feelings on these >important matters, to give them additional food for thought. > >What do you say? > >If the proposal is seen as good idea by list participants, I would volunteer >to collect (cut and paste) the various statements and insights into a >coherent document -- and then post and repost it till we have consensus -- >and then see that it gets mailed or archived or whatever. > >If we do not attain consensus, we have no statement. I can live with that. >Either way, I think the exercise will be healthy and helpful. > >What do you say. > >Respectfully, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 23:24:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA18695 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:24:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA25917; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:13:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25782 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:10:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.125] (pm3shep3-163-128.intrepid.net [209.190.163.128]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19945 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:12:24 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:46:42 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: GEN2-12 (fwd) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id XAA25783 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 363 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:32:57 -0500 From: Richard Wolfson To: info@natural-law.ca Subject: GEN2-12 Thanks to: Bradford Duplisea for posting this: The Edmonton Journal Fri 12 Feb 1999 PAGE A18 BYLINE Andrew Duffy, Southam Newspapers Canada favours pact on genetically engineered foods; THE BIOSAFETY TREATY Final negotiations begin today on an international treaty to cover genetically engineered crops that could impose tough new rules on the export of Canadian grains. Negotiating teams from 174 countries, including Canada, are meeting in Cartagena, Colombia, to finalize a pact aimed at setting new rules for the trade of genetically altered seed and food. Canada, with an estimated 2.8 million hectares of land devoted to the cultivation of genetically modified corn, canola, soya, flax, cotton seed and potatoes, has much at stake. Canadian agricultural exports accounted for more than $22 billion in 1997, about one-third of the country's favourable balance of trade. The biosafety treaty could require Canadian exporters to separate genetically modified grains from natural ones, seek government approval of their products from importing countries and label their goods as "genetically altered." The proposals are designed to ensure countries concerned about the possible impact of engineered crops can protect their fields and consumers. One proposal to be discussed by negotiators would apply the rules to goods made with genetically altered ingredients: things like soda pop, potato chips, vaccines, even blue jeans. "We believe this protocol has the potential to seriously disrupt trade in agricultural and agri-food products," said Jeff Atkinson, spokesman for the Canadian Federation of Agriculture. Atkinson said the protocol could heap millions of dollars of costs onto farmers, who increasingly rely upon export markets for their incomes. "Anything that impacts on agricultural trade impacts on the livelihood of farmers. "We're worried that there are too many holes in this protocol." Seven years in the making, the biosafety protocol is the result of a United Nations environmental agreement that Canada played a key role in establishing. More than 130 countries signed the Biodiversity Convention at the 1992 Rio Earth Summit in Brazil. Canada was one of its leading proponents and was the first country to ratify the convention, which seeks to protect the world's variety of animals and plants and their habitats. The new protocol is aimed at protecting crop diversity, which is among the most pressing of biodiversity issues. An estimated 75 per cent of genetic diversity in the world's 20 key food crops has already been lost. Most of that diversity -- important to ensuring that crops survive in changing conditions -- has been lost in the past 50 years as genetically altered, high-yield crops have been introduced around the world. Last year, about 30 million acres of farmland were planted with genetically modified seeds -- 10 times more than the year before. But some areas, like Europe, have steadfastly resisted the invasion of the new, altered varieties. (Prince Charles has vowed not to let any genetically altered food pass his lips, saying "that takes mankind into realms that belong to God and to God alone.") It's one of the reasons international observers expect Europe and developing nations will push in Colombia for a strong biosafety treaty, while big grain exporting countries like Canada, the United States and Australia will try to secure a narrowly defined agreement. "Canada has invested heavily in biotechnology -- and we're trying to force these products into markets whether they want them or not," said Mark Winfield, research director of the Canadian Institute for Environmental Law and Policy. Canada's negotiators want a treaty that requires approval permits for genetically modified products only when they pose a clear threat to the environment. * THE BIOSAFETY TREATY * THE ISSUE: 174 countries, including Canada, are finalizing a treaty aimed at setting new rules for the trade of genetically altered seed and food. * THE SIGNIFICANCE: The treaty could pass on millions of dollars in costs to Canadian farmers who might be required to separate genetically modified grains from natural ones and seek government approval of their products from importing countries. KEYWORDS: BIOTECHNOLOGY; GENETICS; FOOD; CROPS; AGRICULTURE; GRAIN; TREATIES; CANADA; TRADE; EXPORTS ............ Thanks to MichaelP for posting this: BBC Friday, February 12, 1999 Published at 12:48 GMT Fears erupt over genetic food Dr Arpad Pusztai: Vindicated Safety fears over genetically-modified food have received dramatic support after scientists backed a disgraced colleague who said that rats fed genetically-modified potatoes suffered health damage. The BBC's Pallab Ghosh reports on the genetic food disputeThe public statement from 20 scientists has renewed calls for the UK Government to impose immediately a moratorium on the use of genetically-modified (GM) foods. However Prime Minister Tony Blair has rejected the calls from consumer, environmental and food pressure groups, as well as opposition politicians. Cabinet Office Minister Dr Jack Cunningham said the findings "were in dispute" and that a moratorium would not be "sensible". He told the BBC: "We need to clarify what the scientific outcome of these experiments really is. But it is not a reason to ban all genetically-modified foods. Support for doctor The controversy began in August 1998 when Dr Arpad Pusztai, 68, made a public statement about his fears, following a Ł1.6m study he conducted at the Rowett Research Institute (RRI) in Aberdeen, Scotland. He told Granada's World in Action that he would not eat the GM food and said it was "very, very unfair to use our fellow citizens as guinea pigs". Within 48 hours he was suspended in humiliation and later effectively forced to retire. The RRI said he had misinterpreted his results. But now the group of scientists, drawn from 13 different countries, have re-examined his work and signed a joint memorandum saying his conclusions were justified. The group included toxicologists, genetic engineers and medical experts. Dr Vyvyan Howard: "We are going to have to test these plants like pharmaceutical agents""We found that his data is sound", their spokesman, Dr Vyvyan Howard, a toxipathologist at Liverpool University, told the BBC. He said: "Dr Puztai did some direct hazard assessment, got some unexpected results and then spoke out. I think he was right." Dr Howard said a new safety regime was needed: "We're going to have to test these plants like pharmaceutical agents. This takes years and costs about $400m to bring a new drug to market because of the level of testing." However Professor Phillip James, director of RRI, stuck by his actions over Dr Putzai, saying the research was incomplete and unchecked. Immune system and organ damage Dr Pusztai's experiments involved feeding rats on GM potatoes for 10 days. He found that some of the rats' immune systems were weakened. He also found that some organs shrank or did not develop properly, including the kidney, the spleen and the brain. The cause of these problems is not known and the group of scientists has demanded immediate funding to investigate. An audit carried out by the RRI last year cleared Dr Pusztai of fraud but said there was no basis for his conclusions. The group of scientists has now savagely criticised that audit saying it contained "serious flaws" and that a "great injustice" had been committed. ** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. ** ............ Animal Hospital by Linda Pannozzo nspirg@is2.dal.ca (NS PIRG) Published in The Coast (a Halifax news/entertainment weekly) January 14, l999. ......... "Certainly, in Canada we have some recent examples where policy has failed us. Our fisheries and oceans department has been criticized for its management of fish stocks, to the point where the supply is diminished to almost non- existent levels. We've been criticized in the recent blood commission, a regulator, that was under-resourced, underfinanced in dealing with health issues in blood...so certainly you may be skeptical in thinking that policy analysts can address the issue of xenotransplantation." -Andre La Prairie, Project Manager for Blood, tissue, organ and xenograft project with Canada's Health Protection Branch, speaking to an audience at an international forum on xenotransplantation in Maryland, USA, January,l998. ......... Royal Victoria Hospital, Montreal, December, l994. Mavis McArdle was desperately clinging to life. After waiting for a donor liver for over a year, the 55 year old woman had fallen deathly ill. She slipped into a coma and there was little hope that a donor would be found on time. McArdle was placed on the National Transplant List as status 4 - priority from coast to coast. Time was running out. On the evening of December 19, Dr. Jean Tchervenkov, a well known transplant surgeon, and Dr. Joe Tector had an idea. They needed a way to keep her alive until a human liver donor was found. They needed a liver and decided to get one from a pig. After getting authorization from the hospital and its human ethics committee and after discussing it with McArdle's family, they decided it was worth a try. The Montreal General Hospital obtained a pig and removed its liver. The liver was brought to the Royal Victoria Hospital where it was attached to the femoral vein in McArdle's left leg. Her blood was then pumped through an oxengenator and a warmer and eventually through the portal vein of the pig liver and then returned to her body via the femoral vein in her right leg. Within 40 minutes of being hooked up to the pig liver, McArdle opened her eyes. The pig liver was working at detoxifying her blood. After four and a half hours the pig liver was removed. Shortly thereafter a human donor-liver was found and McArdle was transplanted. She is alive today. These same doctors performed this procedure on two other patients in l997. In January of that year, a woman was hooked up to a pig liver for 11 hours but later died on the operating table. In May, a young man who had a failed liver transplant was hooked up to a pig liver for 6 hours, transplanted two more times unsuccessfully, and finally died of infection. In November of that same year, Health Canada, lead by Minister Alan Rock, held a national forum on xenotransplantation in Ottawa. The forum was by invitation only. Workshops were held in camera - no public, no media. According to the forum report, those in attendance agreed "there was not enough knowledge to justify starting clinical trials in the near future." But what about the pig liver procedures at the Montreal hospital just a few months earlier? Experiments with human beings were already taking place. Andre La Prairie is the spokesperson for the Health Protection branch - Canadian's health watchdog. He also manages its Blood, Organ and Xenograft Project. La Prairie had never heard about the three pig liver procedures done at The Royal Victoria Hospital. In fact, he was surprised that they could have occurred at all. In an email and a subsequent fax, La Prairie wrote, "I am surprised at your suggestion that pig liver transplants have taken place in Canada for the year l997. These activities have not been made public in any other Canadian forum...current knowledge on the risks and issues would not make this kind of procedure possible in a Canadian hospital without everyone knowing about it...perhaps you have been given incorrect dates or information." Dr. Tector and Dr. Tchervenkov confirm the dates, one in l994 and two in l997. They haven't made an effort to hide the procedures either. In January, l995, McArdle's case made the front page of The Montreal Gazette. La Prairie couldn't account for why Health Canada was not apprised of the Montreal cases. "They didn't tell us about it. It's a bit of a mystery how a procedure like that, especially in today's climate and with what we know about the dangers, that we wouldn't know about it or at least hear about it at international meetings or national forums." La Prairie says it is the responsibility of Health Canada to "remind" physicians and hospitals that it is the regulator but he says hospitals need to get approval from Health Canada to do procedures like these. "They are supposed to inform Health Canada." Dr. Tector, an American who plans on returning there for two years to start a xenograft laboratory, says he has spoken publicly about the procedures, just not in Canada. He says he didn't know what the regulatory bodies were in Canada. He says he didn't come forward with the procedure and findings at Health Canada's national forum on xenotransplantation in l997 because neither he nor Tchervenkov were invited. "We aren't Santa Claus," says La Prairie. "We don't know about everyone who does anything in Canada. We tried our best to find people doing work in this field," he says. Another Health Canada spokesperson, Bonnie Fox-McIntyre explains, "It was our first look at the issue and we wanted to set up a balance." She says they needed a mixture of medical, legal, ethics experts, men and women and people from Canada and abroad. She couldn't explain why the Montreal doctors who had first hand knowledge and experience, and success in McArdle's case, weren't invited but said there were experts invited from other countries. As for Health Canada not being informed of the Montreal procedures, she says "if people are choosing not to tell us what they're doing they're beyond our control." At the time, there were no guidelines or standards available in Canada regarding the use of animal organs and tissues in humans. Draft guidelines had been released by the United States Food and Drug Administration in l996. But, since the l970's it was well known in medical research circles there were dangers in using animal tissue and organs in humans. Dangers of spreading viruses and other infectious agents from the animal to the patient and the larger community. The pig liver used in l994 saved McArdle's life, but did it also threaten the lives of hundreds, thousands or millions of others? Many of the worlds worst plagues and epidemics are believed to have originated from animals. The influenza virus of l918 that killed between 20 and 40 million worldwide is now believed to have originated from pigs. Malaria, the Bubonic Plague, Ebola, Hantavirus and the human version of mad-cow disease, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, are all thought to have originated from animals. Even HIV, the virus that leads to AIDS, is thought to have originated from primates. In March of l997, Robin A. Weiss and his colleagues reported in Nature Medicine that viruses from pig cells could infect human cells in-vitro, that is, outside of the human body in a laboratory. His studies showed that porcine endogenous retroviruses (PERVs), part of the pigs genetic material are not harmful to the pig but could infect human cells. His findings were discussed at the Health Canada forum in l997. The forum report states "It is not known whether PERVs can infect human cells in real life, whether infected humans could transmit PERVs among humans, or whether human infections would result in disease or be the source of a new AIDS-like epidemic." According to Weiss, since the retroviruses are part of the DNA, their threat can only be removed by choosing a pig breed that doesn't have them. However, a follow-up study showed the viruses were found in a wide variety of pig breeds, including the breeds onsidered for human transplants. Even prior to Weiss's findings, there was some trepidation about the possibility of infecting humans. The US Food and Drug Administration draft guidelines stated that donor animals should be from"screened, closed herds or colonies that are well-characterized and as free as possible of infectious agents. Animals should have documented lineages and be bred and reared in captivity." However, the pig in McArdle's case came from a regular farm. "We bathed the pig and made it sterile, but that didn't address the viral issues," says Dr. Tector, one of the surgeons who performed the procedure. "It may or may not make any difference." But just to be sure, Mavis McArdle has had blood taken every year since the surgery. Tector guesses the possibility of infecting people with PERVs is small. "If you go back 100, 200 years and try to predict what the next horrible virus is going to be, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack except you don't know what the needle is. The only way to find out is to do the transplants." The use of animal tissues or organs in Canada falls under the Food and Drug Act. "Part of the onus is on us to remind or announce to transplant programs that we are the regulator," admits La Prairie. But according to Dr. Michele Brill-Edwards, this just isn't happening. She used to be the Senior physician responsible for prescription drugs and clinical trials and prescription drug approvals at the Health Protection Branch. She resigned in January, l996 because of the failure of Health Canada at the time to address the health hazards related to a heart drug. Edwards says it is the responsibility of Health Canada to inform physicians and hospitals directly about the Food and Drug Act, but she says "my guess is their just letting people find out by happenstance." She says doctors just wouldn't have a clear idea of what their responsibilities are under the Food and Drug Act. The way it's supposed to work is that anyone wanting to do a clinical trial using xenografts must make a submission to the Therapeutic Products Programme of Health Canada where it will be reviewed in detail and a decision made within 60 days. While a great deal of pre-clinical research (not on humans) is going on across Canada, no applications for clinical trials for xenografts have ever been received by Health Canada, says La Prairie. This could soon change. In a recent Globe and Mail article it was reported that researchers from universities in Guelph, Toronto and London plan to use "for the first time" the livers of genetically engineered pigs to keep transplant patients alive by the end of this year. While the procedure is identical to what has already taken place in Montreal, they were not mentioned in the article. The only difference is this time the pigs are part human - developed by U.K company Imutran. Gilles Gagnon is the Vice President of External Affairs at Novartis Pharmaceuticals Inc., the company sponsoring the project to the tune of $1 - billion (U.S.) He says a human gene was introduced into the fertilized egg of a pig to create a new transgenic pig with a genetically modified liver. Two generations of these lab created piglets are now housed in sterile, isolated conditions at the University of Guelph, where they await the removal of their livers. He says the project's first step will be to attach the livers to monkeys. "We have to make sure there will be absolutely no transmission of viruses. We also have to eliminate the possibility of biochemical transformations." Gagnon is refering to the possibility that sugar metabolism, cholesterol or proteins could be affected by the pig liver. He says it's just a matter of confirming results they have been collecting worldwide. However, Gagnon had never heard of the Montreal procedures either. Lead researcher for the project, Dr. Gary Levy, says he had heard about the McArdle case, but not the others. He hesitated to comment on the Montreal procedures exept to say that "science should be done in a way that we can evaluate the benefits and risks of what we're doing." He says future trials must be done under controlled conditions with guidelines in place. "Right now there are no rules - there's a void, a vacuum...there is no way to control what people do." Controlling what people do is key to protecting public health, says Levy. "If it isn't safe, there will be no way to protect the public - they have to be informed of what is going on." Levy and his team plan to go to the federal government next month to get permission to start the trials on humans. According to La Prairie the draft guidelines are almost ready. Once released they will go to experts, transplant programs and to the public. But, he says, public sentiment will have little bearing on Health Canada's decision. "We don't have to complete our public work to say yes or no to a trial," he says. "The purpose of the public consultation is to develop appropriate policy - we want to make sure we're crossing our t's and dotting our i's." Bartha Maria Knoppers is a lawyer and professor at the Faculty of Law at the University of Montreal. She is also part of a research group in Montreal looking at xenotransplantation. "The public has not been adequately involved in this and surely Health Canada should be using regional offices to organize public events. You don't want an ad-hoc post-fact approach like we had with Dolly in l997 or Louise Brown in l978. This has to stop." Knoppers says that with an issue that could potentially affect entire populations, there has to be informed consent from all affected, not just the patient and their family. "I don't think it should be a local matter only, it should be national." Dr. Michael Gross, a surgeon at the Queen Elizabeth II Health Sciences Centre in Halifax, attended the Health Canada forum and acted as forum co-chair as well as chair of a Xenotransplantation Expert Working Group. In the forum report, Gross states "transplantation of viable cells, tissues or organs from animals into humans is not an acceptable therapy at this time and any standard we would generate must describe a complete ethical and scientific framework for proposed clinical trials." He goes on to say that the public must be informed of the benefits and risks of xenotransplantation before any clinical trials take place. But how can the public consent if they aren't consulted? Up to now the public has been absent from the debate. Health Canada's forum was in camera. However, pharmaceutical companies, such as Novartis, Imutran, Genzyme Corp. and Diacrin were invited and participated. Most of the research being done worldwide today is funded by the private sector and the expected profits to be made by transforming animals into organ and tissue factories is astronomical. One estimate is that by the year 2010, there will be a need for over 500,000 pig organs alone - a revenue of $10-12 billion in the drug industry. Levy dismissed the possibility that business interests could influence the results. "We will not proceed regardless of the potential financial gain unless it is proven beneficial and the risk is low." But Dr. Michele Brill-Edwards disagrees. She says she resigned from Health Canada because "over and over the public interest was being unlawfully compromised for pharmaceutical interests." Brill- Edwards says regulations are what preserve and protect the public interest, but since the l970's the political climate has been to deregulate. At Health Canada this has translated to mean no new programs, cuts to existing programs and a general decline in expertise, she says. "After 20 years of deregulation, most of the agencies are under the gun." Brill-Edwards doubts that public opinion will have much sway with Health Canada. "When a company like Novartis, one of the top five pharmaceutical companies in the world, walks into a country and throws around that kind of money who's going to stop them?" Brill-Edwards says politicians such as Alan Rock and Prime Minister Chretien have made it clear to Canadians that what's good for business is good for Canadians. She worries about who is going to keep business honest and make sure the health of Canadians isn't compromised. "That's what Health Canada is supposed to be doing. Instead, incentives are high to take risks, take shortcuts and speed on the highway to profit where human beings become road kill." Since our intitial interview about a month ago, La Prairie says he has tried to contact the Montreal doctors, but his calls haven't been returned. _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months See website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 23:44:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA18800 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:44:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA27090; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:34:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26982 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:32:06 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ODGNa23166 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:33:13 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <720c6f63.36c65209@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:33:13 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 364 With all respects to Jennifer, I think it is better to go to the source. John Wilkes. Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 13 23:53:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA18932 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:53:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA27538; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:42:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.41]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27471 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:42:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.65.16.28]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with ESMTP id <19990214044327.BTWJ13321@default> for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:43:27 +0000 From: "Todd Powell" To: Subject: Re: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 00:41:28 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990214044327.BTWJ13321@default> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 365 Let's remember to meditate first on the One who created Rudolph Steiner: A thought on Y2K from John Piper, a pastor in the Twin Cities area. Do you want a prophetic word about Y2K? I have two prophetic words about Y2K. First, the greatest need on January 1, 2000, will not be basements stocked with food and water and generators, but hearts stocked with the Word of God. You will be fruitful, you will flourish, you will be life-giving not by seeking the very things the world seeks (Matthew 6:32), but by delighting in the Word of God and meditating on it day and night. What the world will need and does need from the church is the Word of God that fits us to say, "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. (Romans 8:35-37) The other prophetic word about Y2K is this: Nothing is going to happen on January 1, 2000; nothing, that is as bad as what is already happening to persecuted and starving Christians in Sudan. Or the the staggering number of orphans in Malawi and other AIDS devastated countries of Africa. Or to survivors in Honduras and Nicaragua. Or to lonely, dying old people in dozens of skilled care centers around the Twin Cities who have outlived their families. There is something that smells of hypocrisy in the talk about stockpiling supplies in our home to "minister" to others in the coming Y2K crisis when there are more places to minister this very day that are in worse crisis than anything that is going to happen a year from now. Y2K will happen to someone every day in 1999--many of them within your reach. Delight yourself in the Word of God, meditate on it day and night, and then take the fruit of your life and go minister to the lost and the hungry and the thirsty that are already so many. Then you won't even notice when Y2K happens. Copyright John Piper. You are permitted and encouraged to reproduce and distribute this material in any format provided that: (1) you credit the author, (2) any modifications are clearly marked, (3) you do not charge a fee beyond the cost of reproductions, and (4) you do not make more than 1,000 copies. If you would like to post this material to the web or if your intended use is other than outlined above, please contact Desiring God Ministries, 720 13th Ave. South, Minneapolis, MN 55415 ---------- > From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:48 PM > > Dear Friends on Bd-Now, > I was recently having lunch here in NYC with some biodynamic farmer friends > from Virginia. We got around to discussing the millenium, apocalypse and > Y2K (between courses) and had lots to discuss. This is a meditation he sent > to me when they returned home even though he was the one who thought NYC > would be wiped out by floods, and not I! > > Best Regards, > Jane Sherry > > "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes towards > the > human being out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all feelings and > sensations about the future. > > We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may come. > And > we must think only that whatever comes is given to us by a world directive > full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, namely, to > live > out of pure trust, without any security in existence. Trust in the ever > present help of the spiritual world. > > Truely, nothing esle will do if our courage is not to fail us. > And let us seek the awakening from within outselves, every morning and > evening." From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 06:59:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA21833 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA13365; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:49:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA13309 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:48:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10C03U-0000uV-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:49:44 +0000 Message-ID: <36C5C622.90AF9FEC@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:36:18 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds References: <199902131516.KAA19108@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 366 Steven I think its a wonderful idea. Perfect. Alison Steven McFadden wrote: > Dear BDNow colleagues, > > In the course of discussion on this thread, some people (can't remember who) > suggested that we do something -- send out some kind of message. I'd like > to second (or maybe third) that idea. > > Here's a proposal: > We could change the name of this thread to "GEO Consensus." Then through > discussion we could weave a statement expressing the sense of this list in a > document that we could send on to Johnny's Seeds -- and wherever else > appropriate. Maybe Allan would post it on the BDNow web site. > > I know Demeter and many organic groups have already published formal > statements on GEOs and seeds and such, but I think with the kind of > penetrating insight available from the many participants on this list, we > could develop an additionally helpful statement. > > My sense is not to tell Johnny's -- or anyone else -- what to do. But > rather to express clearly our deepest thoughts and feelings on these > important matters, to give them additional food for thought. > > What do you say? > > If the proposal is seen as good idea by list participants, I would volunteer > to collect (cut and paste) the various statements and insights into a > coherent document -- and then post and repost it till we have consensus -- > and then see that it gets mailed or archived or whatever. > > If we do not attain consensus, we have no statement. I can live with that. > Either way, I think the exercise will be healthy and helpful. > > What do you say. > > Respectfully, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 08:52:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA22655 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:52:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA15753; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:43:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA15710 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:43:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10C1qz-0002H6-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:44:57 +0000 Message-ID: <36C6BB51.425B7CF2@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:02:25 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BDNow Subject: Consuming GM foods Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 367 Yesterday The Guardian printed photographs of the possible effects of consuming genetically modified food. The Scottish Research that has shown possible malformation in rat's stomach has been high profile on news headlines (national radio) and in the papers. The two photographs show a wildly different profile - of course I can't tell what the hell it is except that one photograph of part of a rat's stomach (fed on normal potatoes) is dramatically different from the other fed on GM potatoes. Tony Blair doesn't care. But several public figures are urging caution and recommending the moratorium. I'm hopeful for progress towards common sense. Meanwhile, supermarkets are certainly moving towards labelling foods that contain GM material. The most difficult is to find if soya is GE or not but these days the likelihood is that any soya used in food processing _is_ GM. Alison -- ĐĎࡱá From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 08:52:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA22659 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:52:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA15790; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:44:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA15715 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:43:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10C1r4-0003gk-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:45:02 +0000 Message-ID: <36C6BED5.CF8CFC5E@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:17:26 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) References: <19990214044327.BTWJ13321@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 368 These words are so true. Thank you Todd for bringing them here. Alison Todd Powell wrote: > Let's remember to meditate first on the One who created Rudolph Steiner: > > A thought on Y2K from John Piper, a pastor in the Twin Cities area. > > Do you want a prophetic word about Y2K? I have two prophetic words about > Y2K. > First, the greatest need on January 1, 2000, will not be basements stocked > with food and water and generators, but hearts stocked with the Word of > God. You will be fruitful, you will flourish, you will be life-giving not > by seeking the very things the world seeks (Matthew 6:32), but by > delighting in the Word of God and meditating on it day and night. What the > world will need and does need from the church is the Word of God that fits > us to say, "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, > or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? > In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. > (Romans 8:35-37) > The other prophetic word about Y2K is this: Nothing is going to happen on > January 1, 2000; nothing, that is as bad as what is already happening to > persecuted and starving Christians in Sudan. Or the the staggering number > of orphans in Malawi and other AIDS devastated countries of Africa. Or to > survivors in Honduras and Nicaragua. Or to lonely, dying old people in > dozens of skilled care centers around the Twin Cities who have outlived > their families. There is something that smells of hypocrisy in the talk > about stockpiling supplies in our home to "minister" to others in the > coming Y2K crisis when there are more places to minister this very day that > are in worse crisis than anything that is going to happen a year from now. > Y2K will happen to someone every day in 1999--many of them within your > reach. Delight yourself in the Word of God, meditate on it day and night, > and then take the fruit of your life and go minister to the lost and the > hungry and the thirsty that are already so many. Then you won't even notice > when Y2K happens. > Copyright John Piper. You are permitted and encouraged to reproduce and > distribute this material in any format provided that: (1) you credit the > author, (2) any modifications are clearly marked, (3) you do not charge a > fee beyond the cost of reproductions, and (4) you do not make more than > 1,000 copies. If you would like to post this material to the web or if your > intended use is other than outlined above, please contact Desiring God > Ministries, 720 13th Ave. South, Minneapolis, MN 55415 > > ---------- > > From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Subject: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) > > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:48 PM > > > > Dear Friends on Bd-Now, > > I was recently having lunch here in NYC with some biodynamic farmer > friends > > from Virginia. We got around to discussing the millenium, apocalypse and > > Y2K (between courses) and had lots to discuss. This is a meditation he > sent > > to me when they returned home even though he was the one who thought NYC > > would be wiped out by floods, and not I! > > > > Best Regards, > > Jane Sherry > > > > "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes > towards > > the > > human being out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all feelings > and > > sensations about the future. > > > > We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may > come. > > And > > we must think only that whatever comes is given to us by a world > directive > > full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, namely, to > > live > > out of pure trust, without any security in existence. Trust in the ever > > present help of the spiritual world. > > > > Truely, nothing esle will do if our courage is not to fail us. > > And let us seek the awakening from within outselves, every morning and > > evening." -- ĐĎࡱá From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 12:49:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24409 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:49:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00591; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00288 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:37:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp17.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.117]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA06838 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:37:57 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001101be5840$a18742a0$754b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Apogee & Perigee Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:37:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 369 Dear Friends, I'm forwarding an interesting post regarding the moon's perigee & apogee. As noted by the author, seems that popular astrology overlooks these lunar cycle "highlights". (BDers don't though!) I thought you might be interested in his observations... >And now for something completely different, the FEB 20 1999 lunar perigee (14:22 UT at 28 AR 08) might be worth a look. The last such perigee this year (21:40 UT JAN 26 at 04 GE 16 ) came within 30 hours of last month's Colombian earthquake. >I don't think lunar perigees rank in the same category as a SuperMoon, because they lack the Sun-Earth-Moon alignment factor. But perigee alone means the Moon is 'swift in course' and therefore strong as reckoned since Ptolemaic times at least. (Though often overlooked today, because astrology software typically doesn't address apogee/perigee.) >Apart from their possible correspondence with major seismic activity - Richter 5 or greater quakes, volcanic eruptions, etc. - lunar perigees may also signify a general excitation in living things: an upwelling of emotion, excitability, restlessness, etc. Conversely, lunar apogee may indicate just the reverse: a sense of calm, or even listlessness. >I've only been watching these things since fall '98, so I'm not making any claims for them. But they are starting to look pretty interesting. >For more, see the table of 1999 lunar perigees and apogees at Astropro (accessible from the contents page of course). >-- Richard http://www.astropro.com/ Cool, huh? Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 12:50:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24420 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:50:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00869; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:42:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00634 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:40:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.151.41.211]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:51:18 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:42:13 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 370 Steven McFadden wrote: <> Thank you for your generous offer Steven. Sounds like a great idea! Warm Regards, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 12:50:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24428 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:50:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00916; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:42:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00683 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:40:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.151.41.211]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:51:40 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:42:35 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: February 13, 1999 - February 19, 1999 Message-ID: <358991C3C5C6BB0285256718006143DD.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id MAA00684 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 371 Calendar of the Soul [February 13, 1999 - February 19, 1999] Forty-fifth Week (February 9-15) My power of thought grows firm United with the spirit's birth. It lifts the senses' dull attractions To bright-lit clarity. When soul-abundance Desires union with the world's becoming, Must senses' revelation Receive the light of thinking. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ Es festigt sich Gedenkenmacht Im Bunde mit der Geistgeburt, Sie hellt der Sinne dumpfe Reize Zur vollen Klarheit auf. Wenn Seelenfülle Sich mit dem Weltenwerden einen will, Muss Sinnesoffenbarung Des Denkens Licht empfangen. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+45 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 12:53:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24463 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:53:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01181; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:45:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01094 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:44:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([208.151.41.216]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:55:29 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:46:24 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) Message-ID: <91750842F8DD40778525671800614B87.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 372 Thanks for your interesting piece of info, Stephen! Not being a Steiner accolyte, but one who is interested in his teachings as well as many others', I find this piece of information sort of irrelevant. It's a good meditation, regardless of who said it! I would imagine, though, that there are many on the bd-now list, who might find this piece of info VERY interesting! I recommend that you post it publicly and see what kind of response you get. Thank you for your offer to snail mail me the article, but I really see no need to read it unless it addresses the issue of FEAR and not the issue of who is the "real" author of the meditation. Good to hear from you. Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 14:31:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25362 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:31:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09214; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:23:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08838 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:19:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-1-p75.wolfenet.com [206.159.28.75]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05796 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:21:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C71F18.D994516F@seattle2000.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:09:04 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) References: <19990214044327.BTWJ13321@default> <36C6BED5.CF8CFC5E@watating.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 373 I am not so sure these words are "so true" Alison. If I remember correctly, Steiner was not a Christian but founded "Theosophy" which is based upon the philosophy of Buddhism, much more so that Christianity. I am a Buddhist (for 24 years), and can find "borrowed Buddhism" throughout Theosophical cosmology. I am not prepared to expound on this, but I am quite convinced of it. Martin Nyberg ALISON EADES wrote: > These words are so true. Thank you Todd for bringing them here. > > Alison > > Todd Powell wrote: > > > Let's remember to meditate first on the One who created Rudolph Steiner: > > > > A thought on Y2K from John Piper, a pastor in the Twin Cities area. > > > > Do you want a prophetic word about Y2K? I have two prophetic words about > > Y2K. > > First, the greatest need on January 1, 2000, will not be basements stocked > > with food and water and generators, but hearts stocked with the Word of > > God. You will be fruitful, you will flourish, you will be life-giving not > > by seeking the very things the world seeks (Matthew 6:32), but by > > delighting in the Word of God and meditating on it day and night. What the > > world will need and does need from the church is the Word of God that fits > > us to say, "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, > > or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? > > In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. > > (Romans 8:35-37) > > The other prophetic word about Y2K is this: Nothing is going to happen on > > January 1, 2000; nothing, that is as bad as what is already happening to > > persecuted and starving Christians in Sudan. Or the the staggering number > > of orphans in Malawi and other AIDS devastated countries of Africa. Or to > > survivors in Honduras and Nicaragua. Or to lonely, dying old people in > > dozens of skilled care centers around the Twin Cities who have outlived > > their families. There is something that smells of hypocrisy in the talk > > about stockpiling supplies in our home to "minister" to others in the > > coming Y2K crisis when there are more places to minister this very day that > > are in worse crisis than anything that is going to happen a year from now. > > Y2K will happen to someone every day in 1999--many of them within your > > reach. Delight yourself in the Word of God, meditate on it day and night, > > and then take the fruit of your life and go minister to the lost and the > > hungry and the thirsty that are already so many. Then you won't even notice > > when Y2K happens. > > Copyright John Piper. You are permitted and encouraged to reproduce and > > distribute this material in any format provided that: (1) you credit the > > author, (2) any modifications are clearly marked, (3) you do not charge a > > fee beyond the cost of reproductions, and (4) you do not make more than > > 1,000 copies. If you would like to post this material to the web or if your > > intended use is other than outlined above, please contact Desiring God > > Ministries, 720 13th Ave. South, Minneapolis, MN 55415 > > > > ---------- > > > From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > Subject: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) > > > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:48 PM > > > > > > Dear Friends on Bd-Now, > > > I was recently having lunch here in NYC with some biodynamic farmer > > friends > > > from Virginia. We got around to discussing the millenium, apocalypse and > > > Y2K (between courses) and had lots to discuss. This is a meditation he > > sent > > > to me when they returned home even though he was the one who thought NYC > > > would be wiped out by floods, and not I! > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Jane Sherry > > > > > > "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes > > towards > > > the > > > human being out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all feelings > > and > > > sensations about the future. > > > > > > We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may > > come. > > > And > > > we must think only that whatever comes is given to us by a world > > directive > > > full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, namely, to > > > live > > > out of pure trust, without any security in existence. Trust in the ever > > > present help of the spiritual world. > > > > > > Truely, nothing esle will do if our courage is not to fail us. > > > And let us seek the awakening from within outselves, every morning and > > > evening." > > -- > ?Ďࡱá From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 17:52:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA26975 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:52:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA26614; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:43:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.javanet.com (mail1.javanet.com [205.219.162.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA26254 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:40:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from 209.150.32.150 (armory-hiper1148.javanet.com [209.150.32.150]) by mail1.javanet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA25601 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:41:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C752A2.22A@javanet.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:48:13 -0500 From: Christian Elwell Organization: South River Miso Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-NSCP (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds References: <199902131516.KAA19108@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 374 Steven, I would like to add my support to this good idea. Christian Elwell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 19:43:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA28214 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:43:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA05289; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:32:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05054 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:30:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0104.direct.ca ([204.244.83.4] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CBxU-0007Gp-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:32:21 -0800 Message-ID: <36C76ABE.42FD0F82@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:30:54 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds References: <199902121616.IAA10896@ns2.vphos.net> <199902121950.LAA08338@ns2.vphos.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 375 Friends, I know Mr. Wilks (for 25 years) in England who, for decades, has studied the flow of Water. He is living in miserable (MISERABLE) conditions and I would never want to make a copy of his flowforms unless I paid him some kind of an artist's royalty. John Wilks has to live from something. Giving lectures on water flow, healing the earth with the help of water, etc. etc. (and receiving handouts - the hat at the entrance to the lecture hall collects a mere $100.-- on some evenings) is simply not enough. John Wilks has been ripped of so often (and copied for nothing so often) that we are going to loose a Genius IF we do not have the generosity to pay (as much as we individually can) for each copy we take. Flowforms look exquisit once they have been installed, yet, give the man a living, too. Regards Ferdinand . Woody Wodraska wrote: > Conrad: > > I don't think we're talking about corporate-style profiteering here. I'd > guess > no flowform maker on the planet has sold more than a couple hundred sets of > the > things. My point has to do with honoring the artistic work and craftsmanship > [craftswomanship] of decades that went into the design of flowforms. If the > man in Florida wants to duplicate some of that to design his own, more > power to > him. If someone [not Mr. Luzader certainly] were to make a mould of an > existing design to cast their own replica, IMO that's a ripoff. > > Woody > > At 08:43 AM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > >Why cannot these natural forms of nature be shared? Is it really helping > >the whole world clean up effort when flowforms are still mystical and only > >a select group of initiates know how to make them and are selling the > >design specs? > > > >Curious, Conrad > > > > > >>Hugh: > >> > >>Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial and error > >>that > >>John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? > >> > >>Woody > >> > >>At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > >>>Dear Folks, > >>> > >>>Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him how to > >>>cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, capabale with > >>>tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy castings > >>>if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? > >>> > >>>Best, > >>>Hugh Lovel > >>> > >> > >> > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 19:50:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA28269 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:50:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA05982; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:41:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05889 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:40:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0104.direct.ca ([204.244.83.4] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CC6x-0000pJ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:42:07 -0800 Message-ID: <36C76D07.A0C2A15A@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:40:40 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) AND some....! References: <19990214044327.BTWJ13321@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 376 FRIENDS, I AGREE WITH A LOT IN THIS POST, HOWEVER, BETTER BE PRAYING AND BE PREPARED, MEDITATING AND READY. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH ANY KIND OF HARD TIMES OR A WAR WILL KNOW THAT PREPARATION AND MEDITATION GO HAND IN HAND. Regards Ferdinand Todd Powell wrote: > Let's remember to meditate first on the One who created Rudolph Steiner: > > A thought on Y2K from John Piper, a pastor in the Twin Cities area. > > Do you want a prophetic word about Y2K? I have two prophetic words about > Y2K. > First, the greatest need on January 1, 2000, will not be basements stocked > with food and water and generators, but hearts stocked with the Word of > God. You will be fruitful, you will flourish, you will be life-giving not > by seeking the very things the world seeks (Matthew 6:32), but by > delighting in the Word of God and meditating on it day and night. What the > world will need and does need from the church is the Word of God that fits > us to say, "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, > or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? > In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. > (Romans 8:35-37) > The other prophetic word about Y2K is this: Nothing is going to happen on > January 1, 2000; nothing, that is as bad as what is already happening to > persecuted and starving Christians in Sudan. Or the the staggering number > of orphans in Malawi and other AIDS devastated countries of Africa. Or to > survivors in Honduras and Nicaragua. Or to lonely, dying old people in > dozens of skilled care centers around the Twin Cities who have outlived > their families. There is something that smells of hypocrisy in the talk > about stockpiling supplies in our home to "minister" to others in the > coming Y2K crisis when there are more places to minister this very day that > are in worse crisis than anything that is going to happen a year from now. > Y2K will happen to someone every day in 1999--many of them within your > reach. Delight yourself in the Word of God, meditate on it day and night, > and then take the fruit of your life and go minister to the lost and the > hungry and the thirsty that are already so many. Then you won't even notice > when Y2K happens. > Copyright John Piper. You are permitted and encouraged to reproduce and > distribute this material in any format provided that: (1) you credit the > author, (2) any modifications are clearly marked, (3) you do not charge a > fee beyond the cost of reproductions, and (4) you do not make more than > 1,000 copies. If you would like to post this material to the web or if your > intended use is other than outlined above, please contact Desiring God > Ministries, 720 13th Ave. South, Minneapolis, MN 55415 > > ---------- > > From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Subject: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) > > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:48 PM > > > > Dear Friends on Bd-Now, > > I was recently having lunch here in NYC with some biodynamic farmer > friends > > from Virginia. We got around to discussing the millenium, apocalypse and > > Y2K (between courses) and had lots to discuss. This is a meditation he > sent > > to me when they returned home even though he was the one who thought NYC > > would be wiped out by floods, and not I! > > > > Best Regards, > > Jane Sherry > > > > "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes > towards > > the > > human being out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all feelings > and > > sensations about the future. > > > > We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may > come. > > And > > we must think only that whatever comes is given to us by a world > directive > > full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, namely, to > > live > > out of pure trust, without any security in existence. Trust in the ever > > present help of the spiritual world. > > > > Truely, nothing esle will do if our courage is not to fail us. > > And let us seek the awakening from within outselves, every morning and > > evening." From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 19:56:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA28320 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:56:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA06481; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:47:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06282 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:44:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0104.direct.ca ([204.244.83.4] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CCBI-0001T7-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:46:36 -0800 Message-ID: <36C76DFA.23C8ABC6@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:44:42 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: testing PENTIUM FAILED References: <01BE55DE.5851A940@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 377 Martha, When my PENTIUM (MAIN CHIP) failed, the most ridiculous stuff happened to my email such as: any kind of email was ripped out of my computer's memory and was attached (randomly) at any letter(s). It was embarrassing to realize that my brother received letters to which BDNOW was attached or discussions that had nothing to do with him plus sometimes dozens of his old letters that I had discharged (and a lot of this happened). My daugher (15) is standing beside me and says: Well Computers are funny things- and I must agree!! Regards Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > This is a test. When I get this in return, I'll only see this note, no > attachments. So, would someone kindly forward your version to me if it has > the attached file. I currently have my isp looking into the problem, and > they're clueless about how winmail.dat would be attaching itself. > (It's only a duplicate of my original post, but I DON'T WANT IT.) > Thank you, and I'm so sorry for the disruption. (I swear, this is the ONLY > usegroup I affect this way.) > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 20:03:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA28368 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:03:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA06976; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:53:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06807 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:51:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0104.direct.ca ([204.244.83.4] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CCH8-0002Nb-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:52:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36C76F7F.FFEA0786@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:51:11 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump References: <01be55cf$4fad47e0$4e15d1cd@default> <36C30C91.2387BFDA@direct.ca> <36C3800D.389E@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 378 Muchos gratias, many thanks for your info. Linda. REgards Ferdinand Linda Ray wrote: > Hi Ferdy, > > My information says about 30 feet deep is as far as one can pull > with a hand pump. I have read also that there is apparently a way to rig > up a "sliding sleeve" kind of well bucket which can bring smaller > amounts of water (about a quart IIRC?) up from deeper. > > Regards, > Linda > > ************************************************************* > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > Sorry for that omission. That's the depth of our well and a bit less to the > > surface of our river. And just thinking of it IF you have a handpump, the > > limit of pumping it up to the surface may be at 100' ? Does anybody know from > > what max depth you can handpump. Best regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 20:24:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA28528 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:24:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA08184; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:13:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07989 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:11:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0104.direct.ca ([204.244.83.4] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CCbH-000432-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:13:28 -0800 Message-ID: <36C77464.5ACA1409@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:12:04 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Damage to water References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 379 Michael, Electro-Magnetic fields.....! God, what a can of worms. But think what is happening to your brain when U use a cellular phone: My instinct says that the brian is full of water (t'was proven by doctors, too.....) and now, hold that gadget against your ear (head). Can U image how the water is being 'messaged' i.e. what kind of 'inscripts' it does receive. I mentioned it some six months ago that there is a marvelous study of the water from the river Rhine from the source all the way to Holland (via the drop method). Water was taken (at some 50 points) out of the Rhine and 'dropped' onto itself. The drop forms were photographed and, low and behold, after every hamlet (where water pictures looked like roses) , village (like tulips), town (like toilet rings.....) and city (as the River wound it's way to Holland) the water pictures started to look clumsier and cruder until, at the end, the water did only form shallow rings. Not only chemicals hurt the water even work (going through a turbine) changed its form. Expose water to 50 - 500,000 Hertz and observe!!!! Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Well for yet another to jump in here who has even less knowledge > about all this breeding stuff, I would like to then ask the question > if electro-magnetic fields induce "negative effects" on systems with > water, what are we doing using microwave machines to heat up food > with water content? > > Mista Keen > > > AS Julie said earlier, permit me, who has had no experience in animal > > mating at all, to jump in. > > Using electricity, or is it electromagnetism, to induce semen production > > makes use, or perhaps, mis-use, of the Fallen Light and Fallen Chemical > > Ethers. As Alan Hall's book showed, these electric and electro-magnetic > > fields induce negative effects on systems with water, and that includes > > semen, which is then passed on to generations of cattle. > > Michael (BC) > > > > On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Julie M. wrote: > > > > > Dear Ferdy & Martha, > > > > > > I'd like to jump in on this thread as I have some rather strong feelings on > > > the whole AI > > > thing... > > > > > > First of all, I was completely enchanted with your description Ferdy, of > > > what ACTUALLY occurs during the mating process. I've not developed the > >"eye" > > > to see this firsthand, but you give me something to strive for. > > > > > > One thing that actually shocked (no pun intended) me, when I learned of it > > > is the procedure whereby bulls are electrically induced to produce semen. > > > This inhumanity was VERY disturbing to me and I wondered what effect this > > > might have on the bull, the semen & resulting offspring. > > > > > > Another aspect, on a completely mundane level, that was recently suggested > > > on my local farming list, was that if companies like Monsanto can retain > > > "rights" over any future crops their seed might produce, what implications > > > might this hold for AI and any future heifers that a company's semen might > > > produce? > > > > > > And I would also like to take exception to the implication that using AI > > > diversifies the gene pool. I think it has the opposite effect. Semen > >ads now > > > tout the benefit "outcross" on many of the newer bulls because of this very > > > problem. There is so much "Mason/Sooner/Boomer" blood in American Jersey > > > herds today (because of AI) that the cattle are weakened. The breed > > > societies are actually encouraging people to crossbreed their cattle, then > > > breed > > > them back to Jersey or Swiss or whatever, a few more times...after a couple > > > generations they can get purebred papers! And I have said before that the > > > semen folks do not breed for temperament, good health, efficiency on grass, > > > etc. (Although New Zealanders are much better about this) Here, we have > > > created > > > udders that the frame of a cow can barely support, completely out of > > > proportion! This invites problems, and that's why the average life of a US > > > dairy cow is 5 years! > > > > > > The problem with breeding a cow to an oversized bull or larger breed is a > > > bad management call, period. It is bad farming that is a result of > > > greed...(a decision probably made by a cowboy-rancher who's never had to > > > deliver a 10-lb baby!) To portray it as the result of natural service is > > > inaccurate. It also smacks of the whole > > > techno-superiority complex that our society suffers from - that an AI > > > technician is better qualified than the farmer in determining the bull of > > > choice. Farmers have lost faith in their knowledge/experience, animals, > > > land, and placed their faith into the hands scientists & big corporations. > > > > > > So Steiner was right, IMO, we've brought problems into our herds with this > > > technology (and we appear to be attacking the next link in the food chain, > > > with GE plants!) > > > > > > Technology is like fire...a marvelous tool, when used with wisdom - but in > > > the hands of children (like our scientists/techies) downright deadly! > > > > > > Julie > > > > > > > > > > > Clive From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 22:19:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29374 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:19:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA18518; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:05:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net (eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net [207.109.240.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA18357 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:04:06 -0500 (EST) From: jrei@uswest.net Received: (qmail 9514 invoked by alias); 15 Feb 1999 03:05:45 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-bdnow@envirolink.org@fixme Received: (qmail 9476 invoked by uid 0); 15 Feb 1999 03:05:42 -0000 Received: from dialupb204.eugn.uswest.net (HELO pop.eugn.uswest.net) (209.180.176.204) by eugnpop1.eugn.uswest.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 1999 03:05:42 -0000 Message-ID: <36C78E38.D6C54A0A@pop.eugn.uswest.net> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:02:17 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU" , "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Soil Health Symposium Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 380 Thought that some of you may be interested in this. We have about 40 seats left. Please call or e-mail if you have any questions. Joel@ Territorial Seed Compnmay Territorial’s Soil Health Spring Symposium Learn the secrets to soil that separate the good gardeners from the great gardeners! Territorial Seed Company will be the host of this exciting two-day symposium April 10-11, 1999. Our speakers will vividly bring into focus how important the role of soil biology is to the growth and establishment of vegetables and herbs. Many growers struggle with the definition of good soil and management practices. Whether you grow organically, sustainable, conventionally, bio-dynamically or all mixes in-between, the life of the soil is critical to good plant growth. Cultural practices need to be in harmonious synchronization with the soil biology for optimum results. The wrong practices or the proper practices done at the wrong time can be devastating to successful crop production. Noted expert on soil biology and composting, Dr. Elaine Ingham will explain how various soil microorganisms work in harmony to break down organic material and make it available for plant use. She will also explain how important soil microorganisms are as a reservoir of soil fertility, and how the populations of soil microorganisms can be built-up in your soil by proper management. This symposium is specifically designed for the home gardener and the small specialty grower, and will be more than just scientific theory. A special manual is being developed, will be full of practical answers and solutions that you can take home and use. The use of specially prepared composts that are specific to different types of crops will also be covered. Dr. Ingham will discuss how to make compost that will work for your particular situation whether it's tomatoes, grapes or onions. The use of composts to promote soil biology and encourage natural disease and insect suppression is one of the most exciting yet little explored areas of organic production. We will also show you how compost teas can be used as an excellent source of organic plant nutrition as well as a natural disease suppressant in the greenhouse and the field. Mike Alms from Growing Solutions will show you the latest in equipment for brewing compost teas as well as practical ideas on application both in the field and in the greenhouse. Steve Scheurell, a Ph. D. candidate at the USDA-ARS Horticultural Crops Research Lab in Corvallis, Oregon will share the very latest information on researching biological solutions for plant health problems. Steve is firmly grounded in organic production, having managed organic greenhouse facilities in California. Steve is not your average university researcher! Dr. Ingham is a widely respected researcher in the area of soil ecology. She has spent the last 15 years researching the organic life in the soil and how it relates to crop production. Her Soil Foodweb lab has analyzed over 40,000 soil samples from around the world to determine the best soil biology for a given crop. She is known as a dynamic speaker and draws growers from around the world to learn sound science-based techniques for organic soil management. Dr. Ingham is also a noted expert on the production of composts and compost teas, and Territorial Seed Company is currently cooperating with the Soil Foodweb lab on compost tea applications and their effects on disease control and suppression. Dr. Andy Moldenke, entomologist and soil ecologist, will be joining Dr. Ingham on Saturday. Dr. Moldenke will take us on a fascinating trip through the microscopic animal world in the soil. He will talk about the good guys and the bad! You will be amazed at the diversity of the soil animal kingdom and just how essential it is for good soil health. Our staff, along with research staff from the Soil Foodweb lab will be at the Territorial research farm to talk about the use of composts, compost teas and compost production, new Territorial Seed variety releases for 1999, and the ongoing research and breeding projects at Territorial Seed Company. The 1999 Territorial Seed Company symposium will be held at the newly constructed Lane Community College building here in Cottage Grove on April 10-11, 1999. The cost of this two-day symposium is only $110. Included in the cost of registration is lunch on Saturday and Sunday as well as a full set of notes and sound, detailed printed information for you to take home and put to work. Upon receiving your registration, Territorial will send you your attendee’s packet with information about hotel accommodations and the special rates that will be offered for this event. To register call Territorial Seed Company at 541-942-9547, fax to 541-942-9881 or go to our web site at www.territorial-seed.com. Take advantage of this opportunity to hear a world-renowned speaker! Register early as seating is limited to just 100 people. These important topics will be covered at the symposium! What types of microorganisms are essential for good soil health? How can these microorganisms be encouraged to grow in my soil? How do soil microorganisms lead to better plant health? How are nutrients supplied to plants at the rate plants need them? Why do different types of plants require different sets of organisms? How do soil-dwelling insects affect my soil fertility? How can I make good compost to encourage the proper soil life? How are compost teas used to grow the proper soil organisms? What are the impacts of the major chemicals used in conventional farming? Tentative Symposium Schedule April 10, 1999 8:00-8:30 a.m. Introduction 8:30-10:00 The soil food web 10:00-10:30 Coffee break and informal discussion 10:30-12:00 The interaction between the soil food web and plants 12:00-1:00p.m. Lunch (included) 1:00-1:30 How can we evaluate the soil food web and the biological control of plant disease. 1:30-2:30 Research at Territorial Seed Company 2:30-3:00 Break 3:00-5:00 Compost and Compost teas production and use 5:00-close Questions Sunday April 11, 1999 8:30-9:00 a.m. Breakfast and Chat 9:00-10:30 Dr. Andy Moldenke will talk about soil insect life. 10:30-12:00 how can you fix the soil food web? 12:00-12:30 p.m. Lunch (included) 12:30-3:00 Farm demonstration at Territorial Seed Company’s Research Farm. We will show you our simple compost production system as well as our method of compost tea production. Our staff will also be on hand to talk about organic greenhouse production and explain some of our breeding programs 3:00-4:00 Wrap-up and Close Instructors Include: Dr. Elaine Ingham; Department of Botany and Plant Pathology, Oregon State University (OSU) and President of Soil Foodweb Dr. Andy Moldenke; OSU Dept of Entomology Dr. Mike Holms; Lab Director, Soil Foodweb Lynn Rogers; Senior Technician, Soil Foodweb Steve Scheuerell; Ph. D. candidate, OSU Plant Pathology Joel Reiten; Research and Farm manager, Territorial Seed Company Mike Alms; President of Growing Solutions Selected staff members of Territorial Seed Company From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 22:32:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29458 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA19853; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:20:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19718 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:18:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-4-p63.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.63]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25433 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:19:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C78F32.2FA2E616@seattle2000.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:07:56 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds References: <199902121616.IAA10896@ns2.vphos.net> <199902121950.LAA08338@ns2.vphos.net> <36C76ABE.42FD0F82@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 381 Hi all, I am not sure. I guess I must have made someone mad. I am sending emails to the list but know one is answering. I again will ask though: "Could someone please send me readily understandable info on Flow forms? Is there are Web site that describes them in total and allows one to purchase or design one without great expense?" Martin Nyberg GreenMan Farm CSA 8800 SW Dilworth Rd Vashon WA. 98070 (206)567-4548 GreenMan@wolfenet.com Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Friends, > > I know Mr. Wilks (for 25 years) in England who, for decades, has studied the > flow of Water. He is living in miserable (MISERABLE) conditions and I would never > want to make a copy of his flowforms unless I paid him some kind of an artist's > royalty. John Wilks has to live from something. Giving lectures on water flow, > healing the earth with the help of water, etc. etc. (and receiving handouts - > the hat at the entrance to the lecture hall collects a mere $100.-- on some > evenings) is simply not enough. John Wilks has been ripped of so often (and > copied for nothing so often) that we are going to loose a Genius IF we do not > have the generosity to pay (as much as we individually can) for each copy we > take. Flowforms look exquisit once they have been installed, yet, give the man a > living, too. Regards Ferdinand > > . > Woody Wodraska wrote: > > > Conrad: > > > > I don't think we're talking about corporate-style profiteering here. I'd > > guess > > no flowform maker on the planet has sold more than a couple hundred sets of > > the > > things. My point has to do with honoring the artistic work and craftsmanship > > [craftswomanship] of decades that went into the design of flowforms. If the > > man in Florida wants to duplicate some of that to design his own, more > > power to > > him. If someone [not Mr. Luzader certainly] were to make a mould of an > > existing design to cast their own replica, IMO that's a ripoff. > > > > Woody > > > > At 08:43 AM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > >Why cannot these natural forms of nature be shared? Is it really helping > > >the whole world clean up effort when flowforms are still mystical and only > > >a select group of initiates know how to make them and are selling the > > >design specs? > > > > > >Curious, Conrad > > > > > > > > >>Hugh: > > >> > > >>Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial and error > > >>that > > >>John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? > > >> > > >>Woody > > >> > > >>At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > > >>>Dear Folks, > > >>> > > >>>Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him how to > > >>>cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, capabale with > > >>>tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy castings > > >>>if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? > > >>> > > >>>Best, > > >>>Hugh Lovel > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 22:53:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA29640 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA21643; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:43:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21545 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:43:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-4-p63.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.63]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26482 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:44:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C7951C.B9BA34DA@seattle2000.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:33:13 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) References: <19990214044327.BTWJ13321@default> <36C6BED5.CF8CFC5E@watating.demon.co.uk> <36C71F18.D994516F@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 382 I have been reminded by Dr Lorand.... Mr. Steiner was the founder of Anthroposophy, not Theosophy. I hope I did not confuse anyone. Martin Martin Nyberg wrote: > I am not so sure these words are "so true" Alison. If I remember correctly, Steiner > was not a Christian but founded "Theosophy" which is based upon the philosophy of > Buddhism, much more so that Christianity. I am a Buddhist (for 24 years), and can find > "borrowed Buddhism" throughout Theosophical cosmology. I am not prepared to expound on > this, but I am quite convinced of it. > > Martin Nyberg > > ALISON EADES wrote: > > > These words are so true. Thank you Todd for bringing them here. > > > > Alison > > > > Todd Powell wrote: > > > > > Let's remember to meditate first on the One who created Rudolph Steiner: > > > > > > A thought on Y2K from John Piper, a pastor in the Twin Cities area. > > > > > > Do you want a prophetic word about Y2K? I have two prophetic words about > > > Y2K. > > > First, the greatest need on January 1, 2000, will not be basements stocked > > > with food and water and generators, but hearts stocked with the Word of > > > God. You will be fruitful, you will flourish, you will be life-giving not > > > by seeking the very things the world seeks (Matthew 6:32), but by > > > delighting in the Word of God and meditating on it day and night. What the > > > world will need and does need from the church is the Word of God that fits > > > us to say, "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, > > > or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? > > > In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. > > > (Romans 8:35-37) > > > The other prophetic word about Y2K is this: Nothing is going to happen on > > > January 1, 2000; nothing, that is as bad as what is already happening to > > > persecuted and starving Christians in Sudan. Or the the staggering number > > > of orphans in Malawi and other AIDS devastated countries of Africa. Or to > > > survivors in Honduras and Nicaragua. Or to lonely, dying old people in > > > dozens of skilled care centers around the Twin Cities who have outlived > > > their families. There is something that smells of hypocrisy in the talk > > > about stockpiling supplies in our home to "minister" to others in the > > > coming Y2K crisis when there are more places to minister this very day that > > > are in worse crisis than anything that is going to happen a year from now. > > > Y2K will happen to someone every day in 1999--many of them within your > > > reach. Delight yourself in the Word of God, meditate on it day and night, > > > and then take the fruit of your life and go minister to the lost and the > > > hungry and the thirsty that are already so many. Then you won't even notice > > > when Y2K happens. > > > Copyright John Piper. You are permitted and encouraged to reproduce and > > > distribute this material in any format provided that: (1) you credit the > > > author, (2) any modifications are clearly marked, (3) you do not charge a > > > fee beyond the cost of reproductions, and (4) you do not make more than > > > 1,000 copies. If you would like to post this material to the web or if your > > > intended use is other than outlined above, please contact Desiring God > > > Ministries, 720 13th Ave. South, Minneapolis, MN 55415 > > > > > > ---------- > > > > From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US > > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > > Subject: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) > > > > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:48 PM > > > > > > > > Dear Friends on Bd-Now, > > > > I was recently having lunch here in NYC with some biodynamic farmer > > > friends > > > > from Virginia. We got around to discussing the millenium, apocalypse and > > > > Y2K (between courses) and had lots to discuss. This is a meditation he > > > sent > > > > to me when they returned home even though he was the one who thought NYC > > > > would be wiped out by floods, and not I! > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Jane Sherry > > > > > > > > "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes > > > towards > > > > the > > > > human being out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all feelings > > > and > > > > sensations about the future. > > > > > > > > We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may > > > come. > > > > And > > > > we must think only that whatever comes is given to us by a world > > > directive > > > > full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, namely, to > > > > live > > > > out of pure trust, without any security in existence. Trust in the ever > > > > present help of the spiritual world. > > > > > > > > Truely, nothing esle will do if our courage is not to fail us. > > > > And let us seek the awakening from within outselves, every morning and > > > > evening." > > > > -- > > ?Ďࡱá From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 14 23:21:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA29917 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:21:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA23450; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:10:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ark.com (root@mars.ark.com [204.50.2.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA23367 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:09:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.5.128.34] (io5p33.ark.com [209.5.128.34]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with SMTP id UAA26353 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:11:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199902150411.UAA26353@ark.com> Subject: egg shells for Barrel Compound Date: Sun, 14 Feb 99 20:11:19 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Lang Price To: "BD forum" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 383 Hallo all We want to start collecting egg shells to make the Maria Thun Barrell compost eventually. We need to know if these shells can be just raw or is boiled ok? Do we dry them, wash them, throw them in a rusty tin can or does any of this matter at all? Thanks, Marjan de Jong From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 01:15:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA00897 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:15:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA02225; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:05:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02140 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:04:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CHAt-0005rQ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:06:31 -0800 Message-ID: <36C7B917.C6997817@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:05:11 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: FAQ and other messages. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 384 Dear friends, When returning from the US I found close to 100 posts in my email (a lot were private and I truly appreciate them). However, please give me the permission to reply via BDNOW or explicitly mark them PRIVATE, do not answer via BDNOW. Of course, I won't answer private mail via BDNOW, however, questions asked that may be of interest to all (on BDNOW) for example: which are the parts of a cow that I need to remove to make the Dandelion Preparation (and how can I recognise it) will be answered via BDNOW, if you don't mind. I will certainly respect your privacy. >From time to time there are questions (in a letter) that I may 'copy' without the sender's name and answer it (like 'Dr. Ruth......) so, bear with my. Many thanks and I truly appreciate your enthusiasm. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 01:54:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA01171 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:54:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA05398; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:44:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA05283 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:43:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CHli-0003F6-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:44:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36C7C202.1B291F1F@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:43:14 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K - and some Soya flour... References: <36C2B7D2.19A9D85A@direct.ca> <36C2EC61.F00857C6@watating.demon.co.uk> <36C36A36.FF672FD@direct.ca> <36C42CDF.17AFE92D@watating.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 385 ALISON EADES wrote: > Ferdy > > When I lived in Trinidad there was a murder in the next lane to me (two women and a > baby), I witnessed four men break into the house opposite and make a hell of a noise > stealing their car. Vagrants used to jump the 5' fence of the house diagonally > opposite, usually took nothing but I had to sleep over with my neighbour because she > was so frightened. These three houses lived in fear. Utterly. The single woman told > me not to go out after dark, it was too dangerous. I am either lucky or blessed or > have a particularly attentive guardian angel because nothing ever happened to me yet > some of my neighbours repeatedly had trouble. I cannot help but feel their fear > attracted those incidents to a certain extent. Well, that is really difficult to say. Karma plays into the situation as well. You really may not have had anything to do with their past. It takes a lot to know why we are on this earth and even more why we have to go through certain pain and tests and it takes even more to know how to help, heal and be helpful. I really believe that, as long as one is not a true 'seer', a lot of modesty and even more prayers are the right medicine. And a thankful heart that one was not tested 'on behalf of'. But, of course, the guardian angel stands firm and helpful behind us, yet, hesh (he plus she - hesh) too must abide by the law of Karma. > I don't quite understand what you're saying in your first paragraph. I think we > _are_ worried in the UK and we are just as capable of panic actions as the next > country but maybe there is a certain amount of 'war' attitude left. My grandmother > occassionally said she missed the war because that's when they really pulled > together and shared what they had. To my experience, the English 'worry' or panic much less( perhaps not as much publicly as in other places, or nattions). They tend to sit back, they drink tea. They live and let live. Perhaps, it has changed. But they seem to be more 'relaxed'.Well. there are so many war movies (and until lately from WW2) in the English speaking world that one senses a certain amount of distortive information being transmitted in order to present ONE side of the coin. Even the recent move Saving Private Ryan (which was called a masterpiece by some) makes one of the German's a villain. Well, we are further, today and can see that what happened is World karma. It has less to do with Germany or the Americans, or the English but rather with nations as 'people' as 'individual beings' that had something to work out together. > The answer to the problem in my eyes is to do what so many of you are doing already > - to find a sustainable way of producing food, locally. And to rebuild our > communities. Not being directly involved in either at present I am shamefully doing > less than perhaps I could. There's fear and there's preparation. You speak to many > people from World War II but and they weren't so much afraid as determined to be > well prepared for invasion. > > Just some thoughts. > > Alison > > P.S. The dangers of email are in giving a wrong impression and I am not saying we > have no fear, I'm just trying to say I'm beginning to feel it may sweep us away when > what we really need is planning, imaginative planning. > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Well, Alison, how much can the 'average' (if there is such a person) the average > > person bear. Since most of the people do not fly on January 1st, 2000, why be > > concerned. And a few hours without electricity, haven't we experienced that > > before? And, Alison, being on an Island (having spent 6 years in the UK) well, > > does the Continent have a problem - or Good Old England? Deserves them right > > those Germans......! You know what I mean. We won the war so, why worry? The > > English are mostly people who take a long range view, the way I know them. So, > > GE is certainly their cup of tea. > > > > Yet, the picture, as I have pointed out, looks different. Whereas GE is a long > > range problem (and has its 'humble' beginning RIGHT NOW), the Y2K bug had its > > humble beginning some 40 years ago and is acting out is perverse behaviour (and > > hopefully not!). We shall see. In the long run, however, GE manipulation may be > > much more of a problem than the Y2K bug (unless we have a meltdown or some of an > > atomic power plant - that, certainly would GE manipulate many a plant, animal > > and human being over the long run. > > > > At this point, my friend, one can only hope and act responsibly. Martha's list > > and her concern for the neighbours is the best thing one can do as an > > individual. To get people like my son going (like mad) and to solve the problem, > > is another thing. He told me a few days ago that he re-set a soya mill in > > Vancouver in early December. They would have gone flat, a meltdown, he said. > > (no problem with soya flour) But, what irks him most - at this point in time - > > they still have not paid their bill for bailing them out. > > > > All the best Ferdinand > > > > ALISON EADES wrote: > > > > > This is really interesting. There is a lot of discussion over here about the > > > Millenium Bug (in the UK) and possible upsets but Joe Bloggs in the street > > > isn't really worried. One or two people have proposed planting a bit more of > > > a vegetable garden this year but there's no great panic. On the radio they > > > were saying there's no need for bulk buying. The papers have been a bit > > > worried about aircraft crashing into each other. It just strikes me as odd > > > that there appears to be a lot more concern and preparation in the States > > > than in the UK over the Bug, yet the other way around for genetic > > > engineering. > > > > > > Alison > > > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > > To all: > > > > My son did check my computer and found that out of over sixty programmes > > > > only 5 were not Y2K proof. So, he spent an hour setting them and > > > > eliminated a few that he could not change. However, as Martin indicated, > > > > IF my computer works and the rest of them go wild, what does it help to > > > > be the only functioning computer in my valley while the light goes off. > > > > Just came back from Switzerland where some Hydro utilities indicated > > > > that, for six months after January 1st, 2000, they cannot guarantee the > > > > hydro supply. So, I contacted BC Hydro here in Canada and they said that > > > > they are all fine, everything is o.k. HOWEVER, they depend upon Alaska > > > > Hydro, Alberta Hydro, Washington State Hydro etc. etc. and they may not > > > > be Y2K prepared. So, it all boils down to this: have a generator ready > > > > plus some gas IF you have to pump your water from 60' or more. Other > > > > helpful hints you can find on respective Websites: Y2K Homepage etc. > > > > etc. But one thing is sure: it is going to be very interesting. What may > > > > truly cause a big problem are panic reactions. Regards Ferdinand (stay > > > > cool) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 02:09:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA01242 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 02:09:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA06488; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 02:00:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA06344 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:58:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CI1A-00067w-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:00:33 -0800 Message-ID: <36C7C5C0.5AF461B@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:59:12 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Recent Aids Research References: <013601be569e$ad768600$1d1b60cf@khansen.animalwelfare.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 386 Friends, In an article of Agriculture US I read (some 8 or so years ago) that AIDS was introduced to Africa via a vaccine namely the Small Pox vaccine (as a carrier). Studies have revealed, it said in there (and perhaps someone can get that paper) that AIDS developed FAR TOO fast (from nothing to where it is today). It must be concluded that AIDS was spread artificially. It appeared in certain (unwanted) groups throughout the world which (at the same time) were inoculated gainst Small Pox. When studying the Pleague (from the first incidents until it was a full blown epidemic) it took several hundred years. Other international illnesses took amost as long, too. Well, help me! Eating Chimpanzee Meat! I think man (kind) - if anything, passed it on to these animals.... Regards Ferdinand Kelly Hansen wrote: > Actually, to be more specific, the report states that one strain of the AIDS > virus was probably transmitted to bushmeat hunters from chimpanzees through > direct blood contact when the chimps were slaughtered-and perhaps if a > person ate a bloody and uncooked piece of fresh chimpanzee meat. The blood > on the meat probably came into contact with a sore or broken membrane in a > person's mouth, and the virus was trasmitted that way. The AIDS virus is a > rather fragile one, and cannot survive outside of a body for very long. It > would be highly (very, very) unlikely for someone to contract HIV or AIDS > through cooked meat. I was quite suprised when I first saw headlines > screaming that AIDS was introduced to humans by eating cooked bushmeat. > Fortunately, Roger Fouts, a terribly famous primatologist and defender of > the chimpanzee, called my office (I work in animal welfare) and I was able > to get the full skinny from him. > > Keep Well, Kelly > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Smith > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 9:56 AM > Subject: OFF: Recent Aids Research > > >To All, > > > >The recent revelation concerning the origination of the AIDS virus from > >a research group in the U.S. is only replication of a French Study done > >approximately 15 years ago. In both conclusions the transmission > >occured from humans eating monkey. Now they're trying to feed us the > >bull. > > > >Michael. > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 02:50:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA01443 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 02:50:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA08642; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 02:41:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA08577 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 02:40:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CIfY-0001eH-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:42:16 -0800 Message-ID: <36C7CF73.3355C6C7@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:40:35 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Who is a Christian, who? References: <19990214044327.BTWJ13321@default> <36C6BED5.CF8CFC5E@watating.demon.co.uk> <36C71F18.D994516F@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 387 Dear Martin, What is a Christian? Well, if I understand Dr. Steiner right, he says that a Christian is a person who completely understands, appreciates and loves ALL religions. A Christian is the synthesis of all what has come to us. It will take a long, long time before we see the first Christians on this Earth, my friend. Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > I am not so sure these words are "so true" Alison. If I remember correctly, Steiner > was not a Christian but founded "Theosophy" which is based upon the philosophy of > Buddhism, much more so that Christianity. I am a Buddhist (for 24 years), and can find > "borrowed Buddhism" throughout Theosophical cosmology. I am not prepared to expound on > this, but I am quite convinced of it. > > Martin Nyberg > > ALISON EADES wrote: > > > These words are so true. Thank you Todd for bringing them here. > > > > Alison > > > > Todd Powell wrote: > > > > > Let's remember to meditate first on the One who created Rudolph Steiner: > > > > > > A thought on Y2K from John Piper, a pastor in the Twin Cities area. > > > > > > Do you want a prophetic word about Y2K? I have two prophetic words about > > > Y2K. > > > First, the greatest need on January 1, 2000, will not be basements stocked > > > with food and water and generators, but hearts stocked with the Word of > > > God. You will be fruitful, you will flourish, you will be life-giving not > > > by seeking the very things the world seeks (Matthew 6:32), but by > > > delighting in the Word of God and meditating on it day and night. What the > > > world will need and does need from the church is the Word of God that fits > > > us to say, "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, > > > or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? > > > In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. > > > (Romans 8:35-37) > > > The other prophetic word about Y2K is this: Nothing is going to happen on > > > January 1, 2000; nothing, that is as bad as what is already happening to > > > persecuted and starving Christians in Sudan. Or the the staggering number > > > of orphans in Malawi and other AIDS devastated countries of Africa. Or to > > > survivors in Honduras and Nicaragua. Or to lonely, dying old people in > > > dozens of skilled care centers around the Twin Cities who have outlived > > > their families. There is something that smells of hypocrisy in the talk > > > about stockpiling supplies in our home to "minister" to others in the > > > coming Y2K crisis when there are more places to minister this very day that > > > are in worse crisis than anything that is going to happen a year from now. > > > Y2K will happen to someone every day in 1999--many of them within your > > > reach. Delight yourself in the Word of God, meditate on it day and night, > > > and then take the fruit of your life and go minister to the lost and the > > > hungry and the thirsty that are already so many. Then you won't even notice > > > when Y2K happens. > > > Copyright John Piper. You are permitted and encouraged to reproduce and > > > distribute this material in any format provided that: (1) you credit the > > > author, (2) any modifications are clearly marked, (3) you do not charge a > > > fee beyond the cost of reproductions, and (4) you do not make more than > > > 1,000 copies. If you would like to post this material to the web or if your > > > intended use is other than outlined above, please contact Desiring God > > > Ministries, 720 13th Ave. South, Minneapolis, MN 55415 > > > > > > ---------- > > > > From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US > > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > > Subject: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) > > > > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:48 PM > > > > > > > > Dear Friends on Bd-Now, > > > > I was recently having lunch here in NYC with some biodynamic farmer > > > friends > > > > from Virginia. We got around to discussing the millenium, apocalypse and > > > > Y2K (between courses) and had lots to discuss. This is a meditation he > > > sent > > > > to me when they returned home even though he was the one who thought NYC > > > > would be wiped out by floods, and not I! > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Jane Sherry > > > > > > > > "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes > > > towards > > > > the > > > > human being out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all feelings > > > and > > > > sensations about the future. > > > > > > > > We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may > > > come. > > > > And > > > > we must think only that whatever comes is given to us by a world > > > directive > > > > full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, namely, to > > > > live > > > > out of pure trust, without any security in existence. Trust in the ever > > > > present help of the spiritual world. > > > > > > > > Truely, nothing esle will do if our courage is not to fail us. > > > > And let us seek the awakening from within outselves, every morning and > > > > evening." > > > > -- > > ?Ďࡱ From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 07:33:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA02886 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:33:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA23358; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:24:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA23080 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:21:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp226.cy-net.net [208.21.195.35]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA22181 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:37:45 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE58A4.DA26A880@FLYLO>; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:34:27 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE58A4.DA26A880@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: planting season Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:34:25 -0600 Encoding: 6 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 388 This is a small test of my ability to post to the list. Thought I'd find out what your gardens are going to hold this year, what's everyone planting? I found seed in my elderly cache called 'small white cherry'. Someone sent it, does anyone know about it? (2 yr old seed, I just now have room for it.)(martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 07:58:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA03034 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:58:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA25557; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:49:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA25042 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:47:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.79] (pm3shep2-163-69.intrepid.net [209.190.163.69]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA04091 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:48:59 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:23:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Article from The Scotsman Feb 13 on GM food Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 389 TONY Blair last night flew in the face of public opinion by ruling out a ban on genetically modified foods as leading scientists warned of a "doomsday scenario" of widespread deaths if human immune systems are weakened. The Prime Minister dug his heels in after 20 international scientists supported calls for a five-year moratorium on experiments and sales of the so-called Frankenstein foods. The scientists strongly backed the controversial findings of suppressed research by Dr Arpad Pusztai, of the Rowett Institute in Aberdeen, which found that rats fed on genetically modified potatoes suffered a weakened immune system and damage to vital organs. But Mr Blair insisted that there was, as yet, no scientific justification for a moratorium, despite the latest opinion poll, which showed that 62 per cent of consumers disapprove of GM food and 74 per cent say manufacturers are not doing enough to label it. There were increasing clamours for Dr Pusztai's findings to be reinstated and accusations that the Government was trying to keep favour with the big multinationals which produce GM foods, such as the US company Monsanto. But Vyvyan Howard, a toxicopathologist at Liverpool University, said: "The implications are enormous. We really must be careful about where we are going." Dr Ronald Finn, of the department of medicine at Liverpool University, said it was vital that the Government learned the lessons of BSE. He said if the immune systems of people across the country were weakened, then there would be more deaths from cancer and that a flu epidemic, which currently leads to small number of deaths could increase to hundreds. "You can imagine a doomsday scenario. If the immune system of the population was weakened, then the mortality would be increased many, many times." The Rowett Institute had initially supported Dr Pustzai but after he appeared on World in Action the mood changed and he was suspended, and was later forced to retire, after being accused of releasing "misleading information". Professor Philip James, the head of the Rowett Institute who ordered Dr Pusztai's suspension, helped to draw up the plans for the Government's Food Standards Agency and is widely tipped to be its first head. He strongly denied that he had been responding to political or commercial pressures when he ordered Dr Pusztai's suspension, although he acknowledged the enormous interest the institute's work attracted. "There has been intense interest around the world and there has been pressure by different groups to distort what is going on because they are so committed either to going gung-ho for biotechnology or saying this is absolutely appalling. "We have to operate in the public interest," he said. Dr Stanley Ewen, of Aberdeen University's Medical School, claimed there could have been interference with Dr Pusztai's suspension. Dr Ewen, a distinguished pathologist, said: "He certainly was gagged. One hears a variety of rumours and, of course, in this type of situation there will be rumours abounding. It is suggested that there may have been pressure from somewhere in Government. "The big question is why there was such a volte-face. At first the institute support him and then he was suspended." Dr Ian Gibson, Labour MP for Norwich and the former Dean of Biology at the University of East Anglia, said: "To suppress any scientific document would be a gross error of judgment. All science should be open so that people can judge for themselves." He said the Government was "shilly shallying" over GM foods because of worries about big business. Charles Secrett, the executive director of Friends of the Earth, said he believed that President Clinton had spoken to Mr Blair last year urging his government to do all it could to facilitate the rapid commercialisation of GM foods. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Schley [mailto:tschley@RT66.com] Sent: Saturday, February 13, 1999 2:24 PM To: Bergeron, Ray; Bjelic, Dusan; Cotter, Daniel; greg de Nevers; Helmick, Jenn; Hemingway, Jim; James Gillen; Kantoku; Kristen Martine; Kurt Anschuetz; Lovell, Merrily Subject: [Fwd: GE - some good news?] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 08:36:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA03304 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:36:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA28484; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:28:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28347 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:27:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10CO5D-00043M-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:29:07 +0000 Message-ID: <36C7F28B.406094B2@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:10:20 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) References: <19990214044327.BTWJ13321@default> <36C6BED5.CF8CFC5E@watating.demon.co.uk> <36C71F18.D994516F@seattle2000.com> <36C7951C.B9BA34DA@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 390 Martin I just meant it was 'so true' that the things relating Y2K that there is so much fear about are actually with us already (in our World). Its just that now they might come to 'our back yard'. Alison Martin Nyberg wrote: > I have been reminded by Dr Lorand.... Mr. Steiner was the founder of Anthroposophy, not > Theosophy. I hope I did not confuse anyone. > > Martin > > Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > I am not so sure these words are "so true" Alison. If I remember correctly, Steiner > > was not a Christian but founded "Theosophy" which is based upon the philosophy of > > Buddhism, much more so that Christianity. I am a Buddhist (for 24 years), and can find > > "borrowed Buddhism" throughout Theosophical cosmology. I am not prepared to expound on > > this, but I am quite convinced of it. > > > > Martin Nyberg > > > > ALISON EADES wrote: > > > > > These words are so true. Thank you Todd for bringing them here. > > > > > > Alison > > > > > > Todd Powell wrote: > > > > > > > Let's remember to meditate first on the One who created Rudolph Steiner: > > > > > > > > A thought on Y2K from John Piper, a pastor in the Twin Cities area. > > > > > > > > Do you want a prophetic word about Y2K? I have two prophetic words about > > > > Y2K. > > > > First, the greatest need on January 1, 2000, will not be basements stocked > > > > with food and water and generators, but hearts stocked with the Word of > > > > God. You will be fruitful, you will flourish, you will be life-giving not > > > > by seeking the very things the world seeks (Matthew 6:32), but by > > > > delighting in the Word of God and meditating on it day and night. What the > > > > world will need and does need from the church is the Word of God that fits > > > > us to say, "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, > > > > or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? > > > > In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. > > > > (Romans 8:35-37) > > > > The other prophetic word about Y2K is this: Nothing is going to happen on > > > > January 1, 2000; nothing, that is as bad as what is already happening to > > > > persecuted and starving Christians in Sudan. Or the the staggering number > > > > of orphans in Malawi and other AIDS devastated countries of Africa. Or to > > > > survivors in Honduras and Nicaragua. Or to lonely, dying old people in > > > > dozens of skilled care centers around the Twin Cities who have outlived > > > > their families. There is something that smells of hypocrisy in the talk > > > > about stockpiling supplies in our home to "minister" to others in the > > > > coming Y2K crisis when there are more places to minister this very day that > > > > are in worse crisis than anything that is going to happen a year from now. > > > > Y2K will happen to someone every day in 1999--many of them within your > > > > reach. Delight yourself in the Word of God, meditate on it day and night, > > > > and then take the fruit of your life and go minister to the lost and the > > > > hungry and the thirsty that are already so many. Then you won't even notice > > > > when Y2K happens. > > > > Copyright John Piper. You are permitted and encouraged to reproduce and > > > > distribute this material in any format provided that: (1) you credit the > > > > author, (2) any modifications are clearly marked, (3) you do not charge a > > > > fee beyond the cost of reproductions, and (4) you do not make more than > > > > 1,000 copies. If you would like to post this material to the web or if your > > > > intended use is other than outlined above, please contact Desiring God > > > > Ministries, 720 13th Ave. South, Minneapolis, MN 55415 > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US > > > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > > > Subject: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) > > > > > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:48 PM > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends on Bd-Now, > > > > > I was recently having lunch here in NYC with some biodynamic farmer > > > > friends > > > > > from Virginia. We got around to discussing the millenium, apocalypse and > > > > > Y2K (between courses) and had lots to discuss. This is a meditation he > > > > sent > > > > > to me when they returned home even though he was the one who thought NYC > > > > > would be wiped out by floods, and not I! > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > Jane Sherry > > > > > > > > > > "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes > > > > towards > > > > > the > > > > > human being out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all feelings > > > > and > > > > > sensations about the future. > > > > > > > > > > We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may > > > > come. > > > > > And > > > > > we must think only that whatever comes is given to us by a world > > > > directive > > > > > full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, namely, to > > > > > live > > > > > out of pure trust, without any security in existence. Trust in the ever > > > > > present help of the spiritual world. > > > > > > > > > > Truely, nothing esle will do if our courage is not to fail us. > > > > > And let us seek the awakening from within outselves, every morning and > > > > > evening." > > > > > > -- > > > ?Ďࡱ -- ĐĎࡱá From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 08:37:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA03312 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:37:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA28423; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:28:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28342 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:27:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10CO5A-00042k-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:29:05 +0000 Message-ID: <36C7F123.10154409@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:04:19 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds References: <199902121616.IAA10896@ns2.vphos.net> <199902121950.LAA08338@ns2.vphos.net> <36C76ABE.42FD0F82@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 391 Ferdy I don't know about the miserable conditions but I know John Wilkes has been trying for the longest time to establish a research institute at Emerson on water. Imagine! The last I heard he had further problems but things were still moving, he was hopeful. But I agree 100%, he has worked so hard and so diligently and so wonderfully on water that something should be flowing back to him. If anyone fancies doing some fund raising I'm sure he'd appreciate it. His wife makes the most wonderful knitted little gnomes - individual colours to represent individual plants. I have a beautiful meadow gnome in green white and yellow. Alison Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Friends, > > I know Mr. Wilks (for 25 years) in England who, for decades, has studied the > flow of Water. He is living in miserable (MISERABLE) conditions and I would never > want to make a copy of his flowforms unless I paid him some kind of an artist's > royalty. John Wilks has to live from something. Giving lectures on water flow, > healing the earth with the help of water, etc. etc. (and receiving handouts - > the hat at the entrance to the lecture hall collects a mere $100.-- on some > evenings) is simply not enough. John Wilks has been ripped of so often (and > copied for nothing so often) that we are going to loose a Genius IF we do not > have the generosity to pay (as much as we individually can) for each copy we > take. Flowforms look exquisit once they have been installed, yet, give the man a > living, too. Regards Ferdinand > > . > Woody Wodraska wrote: > > > Conrad: > > > > I don't think we're talking about corporate-style profiteering here. I'd > > guess > > no flowform maker on the planet has sold more than a couple hundred sets of > > the > > things. My point has to do with honoring the artistic work and craftsmanship > > [craftswomanship] of decades that went into the design of flowforms. If the > > man in Florida wants to duplicate some of that to design his own, more > > power to > > him. If someone [not Mr. Luzader certainly] were to make a mould of an > > existing design to cast their own replica, IMO that's a ripoff. > > > > Woody > > > > At 08:43 AM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > >Why cannot these natural forms of nature be shared? Is it really helping > > >the whole world clean up effort when flowforms are still mystical and only > > >a select group of initiates know how to make them and are selling the > > >design specs? > > > > > >Curious, Conrad > > > > > > > > >>Hugh: > > >> > > >>Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial and error > > >>that > > >>John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? > > >> > > >>Woody > > >> > > >>At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > > >>>Dear Folks, > > >>> > > >>>Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him how to > > >>>cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, capabale with > > >>>tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy castings > > >>>if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? > > >>> > > >>>Best, > > >>>Hugh Lovel > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > -- ĐĎࡱá From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 08:37:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA03320 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:37:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA28535; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:28:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28356 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:27:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10CO5F-0007Hl-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:29:10 +0000 Message-ID: <36C7F3F9.9671E33D@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:16:25 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Hesh References: <36C2B7D2.19A9D85A@direct.ca> <36C2EC61.F00857C6@watating.demon.co.uk> <36C36A36.FF672FD@direct.ca> <36C42CDF.17AFE92D@watating.demon.co.uk> <36C7C202.1B291F1F@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 392 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > ... yet, hesh (he plus she - hesh) too > must abide by the law of Karma. I like hesh but I like 'she' more. 'She' merged with 'he' gives you 's/he'. He is part of she already. Alison From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 10:25:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04597 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:25:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10541; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:11:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09992 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:08:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CPex-00059j-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:10:07 -0800 Message-ID: <36C8387F.5A05355D@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:08:47 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Internet Message References: <19990211134508.15295.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 393 Dear Michael, There are physically tens of thousands of salmon that naturally die in our river every year. It is a natural occurrence. There are a variety of salmon that have a three or four year cycle. Yes, it is natural that they come back to their home to die. Regards Ferdinand Michael Smith wrote: > Dear Ferdinand, > > I will begin looking through my notes today and see what is there. In > the meantime there are a few other sources that I can check. The > methods are for the salmaniod "Rainbow Trout", but with a few > modifications could be applied to Salmon as well. Experimentation must > be performed. > > Question: I have seen various documentaries on the spawning habits of > Salmon; swimming upstream to the source of waterways, spawning, then > dieing. In that the case of ALL Salmon or of a large majority of them? > > eggs more humanely, I'll take it to the hatchery. Agreed. I am always > for action.> > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 10:34:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04820 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:34:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA13095; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:26:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12534 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:23:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CPtD-0000Wu-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:24:51 -0800 Message-ID: <36C83BF9.89461F42@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:23:38 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds References: <199902121616.IAA10896@ns2.vphos.net> <199902121950.LAA08338@ns2.vphos.net> <36C76ABE.42FD0F82@direct.ca> <36C7F123.10154409@watating.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 394 Dear Alison, John Wilks is often living, or making a living, if you wish to call it that way, of grants, donations and some work income when establishing new flowform sets. However, his 'return' on flowform molds, so I understand, does not support his research at Emerson. And his 'lab' there, if one is permitted to call it that way, is rather (very, very) old. I visited him last year twice and found him to be ailing, too. So, hard work he cannot do any longer. Regards Ferdinand ALISON EADES wrote: > Ferdy > > I don't know about the miserable conditions but I know John Wilkes has been trying > for the longest time to establish a research institute at Emerson on water. Imagine! > The last I heard he had further problems but things were still moving, he was > hopeful. But I agree 100%, he has worked so hard and so diligently and so wonderfully > on water that something should be flowing back to him. If anyone fancies doing some > fund raising I'm sure he'd appreciate it. His wife makes the most wonderful knitted > little gnomes - individual colours to represent individual plants. I have a beautiful > meadow gnome in green white and yellow. > > Alison > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Friends, > > > > I know Mr. Wilks (for 25 years) in England who, for decades, has studied the > > flow of Water. He is living in miserable (MISERABLE) conditions and I would never > > want to make a copy of his flowforms unless I paid him some kind of an artist's > > royalty. John Wilks has to live from something. Giving lectures on water flow, > > healing the earth with the help of water, etc. etc. (and receiving handouts - > > the hat at the entrance to the lecture hall collects a mere $100.-- on some > > evenings) is simply not enough. John Wilks has been ripped of so often (and > > copied for nothing so often) that we are going to loose a Genius IF we do not > > have the generosity to pay (as much as we individually can) for each copy we > > take. Flowforms look exquisit once they have been installed, yet, give the man a > > living, too. Regards Ferdinand > > > > . > > Woody Wodraska wrote: > > > > > Conrad: > > > > > > I don't think we're talking about corporate-style profiteering here. I'd > > > guess > > > no flowform maker on the planet has sold more than a couple hundred sets of > > > the > > > things. My point has to do with honoring the artistic work and craftsmanship > > > [craftswomanship] of decades that went into the design of flowforms. If the > > > man in Florida wants to duplicate some of that to design his own, more > > > power to > > > him. If someone [not Mr. Luzader certainly] were to make a mould of an > > > existing design to cast their own replica, IMO that's a ripoff. > > > > > > Woody > > > > > > At 08:43 AM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > > >Why cannot these natural forms of nature be shared? Is it really helping > > > >the whole world clean up effort when flowforms are still mystical and only > > > >a select group of initiates know how to make them and are selling the > > > >design specs? > > > > > > > >Curious, Conrad > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hugh: > > > >> > > > >>Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial and error > > > >>that > > > >>John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? > > > >> > > > >>Woody > > > >> > > > >>At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >>>Dear Folks, > > > >>> > > > >>>Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him how to > > > >>>cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, capabale with > > > >>>tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy castings > > > >>>if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? > > > >>> > > > >>>Best, > > > >>>Hugh Lovel > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > -- > ĐĎࡱ From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 10:37:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04962 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:37:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA13618; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:29:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13088 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:26:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CPw6-0000gE-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:27:50 -0800 Message-ID: <36C83CAC.DA2C5956@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:26:36 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Hesh & Shhe References: <36C2B7D2.19A9D85A@direct.ca> <36C2EC61.F00857C6@watating.demon.co.uk> <36C36A36.FF672FD@direct.ca> <36C42CDF.17AFE92D@watating.demon.co.uk> <36C7C202.1B291F1F@direct.ca> <36C7F3F9.9671E33D@watating.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 395 That is true, Alison. I went one step further, recently, to have a new name and called those beings 'shhe' so that they are not mixed with what we have on earth. Spiritual beings do not have a gender (neither gnomes, angels, the dead etc. etc.). Regards Ferdinand ALISON EADES wrote: > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > ... yet, hesh (he plus she - hesh) too > > must abide by the law of Karma. > > I like hesh but I like 'she' more. 'She' merged with 'he' gives you 's/he'. He is part of > she already. > > Alison From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 10:40:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04993 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:40:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14227; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:32:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from baldr.metro.net (smtp1.metro.net [205.217.52.128]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14083 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:31:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ig220.4.dial.innovation.com (ig220.4.dial.innovation.com [209.249.4.220]) by baldr.metro.net (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.ac0i) with ESMTP id ga234396 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:45:54 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990215152936.03715e80@mail.metro.net> X-Sender: ctbowland@mail.metro.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:29:36 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Chris & Tanya Bowland Subject: Re: Who is a Christian, who? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id KAA14085 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 396 At 11:40 PM 2/14/99 -0800, you wrote: >Dear Martin, >What is a Christian? > >Well, if I understand Dr. Steiner right, he says that a Christian is a person who >completely understands, appreciates and loves ALL religions. Ferdinand, Then I hope that you are misunderstanding Steiner. "Christian" comes to us from the very early first century, and was a term that others used(sometimes disparagingly) to refer to those who followed the teachings of Jesus Christ as preached by the apostles. Certainly at the heart of Christ's Gospel was to love ALL people, which to me includes respecting others' beliefs. One does not have to completely understand anything to be a follower of Christ; in fact, He said that faith was the only requirement to following Him. >A Christian is the synthesis of all what has come to us. Christ said that He is the synthesis of all which(and whom) have come to us. >It will take a long, long time before we see the first Christians on this Earth, my friend. I agree with your sentiment. Becoming more Christ-like is a lifelong journey. -Chris >Regards Ferdinand > >Martin Nyberg wrote: > >> I am not so sure these words are "so true" Alison. If I remember correctly, Steiner >> was not a Christian but founded "Theosophy" which is based upon the philosophy of >> Buddhism, much more so that Christianity. I am a Buddhist (for 24 years), and can find >> "borrowed Buddhism" throughout Theosophical cosmology. I am not prepared to expound on >> this, but I am quite convinced of it. >> >> Martin Nyberg >> >> ALISON EADES wrote: >> >> > These words are so true. Thank you Todd for bringing them here. >> > >> > Alison >> > >> > Todd Powell wrote: >> > >> > > Let's remember to meditate first on the One who created Rudolph Steiner: >> > > >> > > A thought on Y2K from John Piper, a pastor in the Twin Cities area. >> > > >> > > Do you want a prophetic word about Y2K? I have two prophetic words about >> > > Y2K. >> > > First, the greatest need on January 1, 2000, will not be basements stocked >> > > with food and water and generators, but hearts stocked with the Word of >> > > God. You will be fruitful, you will flourish, you will be life-giving not >> > > by seeking the very things the world seeks (Matthew 6:32), but by >> > > delighting in the Word of God and meditating on it day and night. What the >> > > world will need and does need from the church is the Word of God that fits >> > > us to say, "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, >> > > or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? >> > > In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. >> > > (Romans 8:35-37) >> > > The other prophetic word about Y2K is this: Nothing is going to happen on >> > > January 1, 2000; nothing, that is as bad as what is already happening to >> > > persecuted and starving Christians in Sudan. Or the the staggering number >> > > of orphans in Malawi and other AIDS devastated countries of Africa. Or to >> > > survivors in Honduras and Nicaragua. Or to lonely, dying old people in >> > > dozens of skilled care centers around the Twin Cities who have outlived >> > > their families. There is something that smells of hypocrisy in the talk >> > > about stockpiling supplies in our home to "minister" to others in the >> > > coming Y2K crisis when there are more places to minister this very day that >> > > are in worse crisis than anything that is going to happen a year from now. >> > > Y2K will happen to someone every day in 1999--many of them within your >> > > reach. Delight yourself in the Word of God, meditate on it day and night, >> > > and then take the fruit of your life and go minister to the lost and the >> > > hungry and the thirsty that are already so many. Then you won't even notice >> > > when Y2K happens. >> > > Copyright John Piper. You are permitted and encouraged to reproduce and >> > > distribute this material in any format provided that: (1) you credit the >> > > author, (2) any modifications are clearly marked, (3) you do not charge a >> > > fee beyond the cost of reproductions, and (4) you do not make more than >> > > 1,000 copies. If you would like to post this material to the web or if your >> > > intended use is other than outlined above, please contact Desiring God >> > > Ministries, 720 13th Ave. South, Minneapolis, MN 55415 >> > > >> > > ---------- >> > > > From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US >> > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org >> > > > Subject: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) >> > > > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:48 PM >> > > > >> > > > Dear Friends on Bd-Now, >> > > > I was recently having lunch here in NYC with some biodynamic farmer >> > > friends >> > > > from Virginia. We got around to discussing the millenium, apocalypse and >> > > > Y2K (between courses) and had lots to discuss. This is a meditation he >> > > sent >> > > > to me when they returned home even though he was the one who thought NYC >> > > > would be wiped out by floods, and not I! >> > > > >> > > > Best Regards, >> > > > Jane Sherry >> > > > >> > > > "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes >> > > towards >> > > > the >> > > > human being out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all feelings >> > > and >> > > > sensations about the future. >> > > > >> > > > We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may >> > > come. >> > > > And >> > > > we must think only that whatever comes is given to us by a world >> > > directive >> > > > full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, namely, to >> > > > live >> > > > out of pure trust, without any security in existence. Trust in the ever >> > > > present help of the spiritual world. >> > > > >> > > > Truely, nothing esle will do if our courage is not to fail us. >> > > > And let us seek the awakening from within outselves, every morning and >> > > > evening." >> > >> > -- >> > ?Ďࡱ > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 10:46:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05076 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:46:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA15162; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:38:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14688 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:34:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CQ4a-00019D-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:36:36 -0800 Message-ID: <36C83EBB.26FE1375@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:35:23 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: egg shells for Barrel Compound References: <199902150411.UAA26353@ark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 397 Lang, What is most important, DO buy eggs (shells) from hens that are being kept in a free range area. Secondly, they must be fed with natural stuff. Free range does not mean anything if they are force fed with all kinds of bad feed. Then, simply (after you opened them) throw them into a barrell near a warm place so that they can dry. A bit of egg residue does not make any difference. Once you have, say, 500 eggs in there, contact me again. Then, we make the next step. Regards Ferdinand Lang Price wrote: > Hallo all > > We want to start collecting egg shells to make the Maria Thun Barrell > compost eventually. We need to know if these shells can be just raw or is > boiled ok? Do we dry them, wash them, throw them in a rusty tin can or > does any of this matter at all? > Thanks, > Marjan de Jong From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 10:52:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05159 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:52:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA15897; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:43:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15818 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:43:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0108.direct.ca ([204.244.83.8] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CQCw-0001B8-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:45:14 -0800 Message-ID: <36C840C0.867DAB9B@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:44:00 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Barrell Compost Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 398 Pam asked me why Barrell Compost does contain eggshells and (finest river sand) consisting of quartz. For your info, we can take river sand as it contains (in our area) what is needed for the Barrell Compost Here, we have the two opposing forces combined into one preparation namely, the greedy, all absorbing chalk or lime and the non-involved quartz. In the agriculture course we can find reference and comments to this effect. Lime and quartz, they are, in a way, the Alpha and the Omega of creation (Ahriman & Lucifer) and inbetween we have the 'rainbow' spectre of it all. The mediating forces of the Christ is being introduced through our work (potentising, lifting, turning) and fastened to the new creation via the Preparations. Well, I am sure that the above will give cause to a lot of discussion. Please feel free. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 11:22:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05805 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:22:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA19556; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:13:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19151 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:10:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-011.midcoast.com [208.153.20.111]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA08668 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:12:01 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990215105953.01b9c0f0@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:59:53 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: BD Farms in North-West Arkansas USA In-Reply-To: <35817C9F47AE66FB85256717006D473B.0000000000000000@webcity> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 399 Dear Listers A friend of mine is looking at buying a small organic farm in north-west Arkansas. She wanted to know if there were any BD farms in that part of Arkansas. Please let me know about BD folk in that area. John St. George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 11:31:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05989 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:31:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA20736; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:22:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20287 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:19:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp212.cy-net.net [208.21.195.21]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA13137 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:35:33 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE58C5.69F7C640@FLYLO>; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:27:32 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE58C5.69F7C640@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: Luther Burbank Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:27:30 -0600 Encoding: 6 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 400 Ran a search in out of print books on LB, and came up with several 'youth oriented' books. ALSO, one 12 volume set on the man and his works for a whopping $6,250. Presentation page by Tiffany & co., signed by Luther Burbank. Associated Dealer: Irvington Booknook, Portland Oregon There are other versions in lesser condition (at better pricing). martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 11:34:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06036 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:34:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA21078; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:25:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.104]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20895 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:24:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.4.210]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:26:13 +0000 Message-ID: <36C8498A.4E3@cwcom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:21:30 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Flow-forms Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 401 Martin asks, where can he get information re flowforms ? Other subscribers keep mentioning John Wilkes, but giving no further details. I don't know if this will help, but flowforms can be purchased from either John Wilkes or Nick Weidmann at Flow Design Research Group, Emerson College, Forest Row, E. Sussex RH18 5JX, U.K. (Phone/fax +44 01342 823078). I've seen his range of concrete/industrial plastic forms, which I guess no-one is going to want to order trans-Atlantic; but I had from him a cascade of lightweight nesting forms and he might well be willing to sell a mould or, at least, send literature. Incidentally, I agree with Ferdy: so much work has gone into researching and refining these things that 'unauthorised copying' would just be a straightforward rip-off, quite un-BDworthy. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 12:04:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA06466 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:04:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA25106; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:55:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.pioneernet.net (pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA24720 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:52:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902151652.LAA24720@envirolink.org> Received: from c182.pioneernet.net by mail.pioneernet.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8) id 14BDFYSS; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:54:13 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "jan stettler" To: Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:19:51 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 402 Re: max handpump lift capacity for Ferdinand We've been off grid for the last twenty years, Y2K catastrophe means very little to us. There probably is some limit to pump lift, but Cumberland General Store (the Sears for Amish folk), fax (615) 456-1211, carries hand pumps capable of lifting almost 400 feet. But why? I have a 218 foot well, pumped directly from a D.C. pump, powered by six PV panels. Whenever the sun shines water is pumped into a storage tank. An elevated storage tank can use gravity to distribute the water whereever you wish. Unless you have sins you need to atone for by hand pumping, feel free to contact me about sources and specs for a sun driven system. Tony ---------- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:51 AM > > Muchos gratias, many thanks for your info. Linda. REgards Ferdinand > > Linda Ray wrote: > > > Hi Ferdy, > > > > My information says about 30 feet deep is as far as one can pull > > with a hand pump. I have read also that there is apparently a way to rig > > up a "sliding sleeve" kind of well bucket which can bring smaller > > amounts of water (about a quart IIRC?) up from deeper. > > > > Regards, > > Linda > > > > ************************************************************* > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > Sorry for that omission. That's the depth of our well and a bit less to the > > > surface of our river. And just thinking of it IF you have a handpump, the > > > limit of pumping it up to the surface may be at 100' ? Does anybody know from > > > what max depth you can handpump. Best regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 12:34:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA06976 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:34:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28023; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:17:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from templar.fgi.net (root@templar.fgi.net [206.101.112.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27878 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from doreen (usr5tc58.fgi.net [208.235.50.58]) by templar.fgi.net (8.9.0/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA21366 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:16:54 -0600 Message-ID: <007101be5906$fe5aec40$3a32ebd0@doreen> From: "Doreen Howard" To: Subject: Re: planting season Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:16:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 403 My new garden (new for the season and for this land, since I just moved to Illinois in July 1998) is going to feature an edible landscape at its perimeter. I've ordered or am already growing in pots, two kinds of grapes for the arbor (Marcheal Foch and Swenson Red), Wild Maine blueberry, Chippewa dwarf blueberry, Northland blueberry (hi-bush--low bush cross), Autumn Bliss raspberries, Stevens cranberries, Poorman gooseberries, Regency amelanchier (Juneberry), cornus mas, Mc Donald rhubarb and Martha Washington aspargus. I'm filling in the remainer of the border with annuals, daffodil bulbs Silvery Fir Tree tomatoes and echineacia (purple coneflower). In my square foot veggie beds (I prefer this system for its yields and ease): various lettuces and mesclun, spinach, raddichio, cress, purple cauliflower, orange cauliflower, broccoli, Egyptian walking onions, various herbs, Imperial Star globe artichokes, Zephyr summer squash, Waltham Butternut squash, various heirloom pole beans, Sugar Snap peas, corn (including an experimental variety), Big Chile pepper (an Anaheim type that does well in colder climates), various bell peppers and gobs of heirloom tomatoes. Black Krim, Mortgage Lifter, an old Illinois native which has no name (2-3 lbs, oblate & red), Striped German, Green Zebra, Garden Peach and Schimmeig Stoo. I'd plant more tomatoes, but don't have the room. In three potato barrels will go Huckleberry (maroon skin with pink & white mottled flesh), Russian Banana Fingerlings (my favorites for flavor) and some potato seed Rose Marie Nichols gave me--Candida. Also have two colummar apple trees on order--they will go into pots, I think or maybe against a fence. That's my garden for this spring. Later, I plan to add a strawberry bed and more fruit trees. Doreen Howard Zone 5b, Central Illinois From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 12:45:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07152 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:45:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00513; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:37:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.pioneernet.net (pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00152 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:35:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902151735.MAA00152@envirolink.org> Received: from c198.pioneernet.net by mail.pioneernet.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8) id 14BDFZ2W; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:36:45 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "jan stettler" To: Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:11:38 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 404 Apparently not. We tried to find this information and came a cropper. If you do come up with this information, however, we would greatly appreciate your generously sharing with us. ---------- > From: Martin Nyberg > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 3:07 AM > > Hi all, > I am not sure. I guess I must have made someone mad. I am sending emails to the > list but know one is answering. I again will ask though: > "Could someone please send me readily understandable info on Flow forms? Is > there are Web site that describes them in total and allows one to purchase or > design one without great expense?" > > Martin Nyberg > GreenMan Farm CSA > 8800 SW Dilworth Rd > Vashon WA. 98070 > (206)567-4548 > GreenMan@wolfenet.com > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Friends, > > > > I know Mr. Wilks (for 25 years) in England who, for decades, has studied the > > flow of Water. He is living in miserable (MISERABLE) conditions and I would never > > want to make a copy of his flowforms unless I paid him some kind of an artist's > > royalty. John Wilks has to live from something. Giving lectures on water flow, > > healing the earth with the help of water, etc. etc. (and receiving handouts - > > the hat at the entrance to the lecture hall collects a mere $100.-- on some > > evenings) is simply not enough. John Wilks has been ripped of so often (and > > copied for nothing so often) that we are going to loose a Genius IF we do not > > have the generosity to pay (as much as we individually can) for each copy we > > take. Flowforms look exquisit once they have been installed, yet, give the man a > > living, too. Regards Ferdinand > > > > . > > Woody Wodraska wrote: > > > > > Conrad: > > > > > > I don't think we're talking about corporate-style profiteering here. I'd > > > guess > > > no flowform maker on the planet has sold more than a couple hundred sets of > > > the > > > things. My point has to do with honoring the artistic work and craftsmanship > > > [craftswomanship] of decades that went into the design of flowforms. If the > > > man in Florida wants to duplicate some of that to design his own, more > > > power to > > > him. If someone [not Mr. Luzader certainly] were to make a mould of an > > > existing design to cast their own replica, IMO that's a ripoff. > > > > > > Woody > > > > > > At 08:43 AM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > > >Why cannot these natural forms of nature be shared? Is it really helping > > > >the whole world clean up effort when flowforms are still mystical and only > > > >a select group of initiates know how to make them and are selling the > > > >design specs? > > > > > > > >Curious, Conrad > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hugh: > > > >> > > > >>Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial and error > > > >>that > > > >>John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? > > > >> > > > >>Woody > > > >> > > > >>At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >>>Dear Folks, > > > >>> > > > >>>Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him how to > > > >>>cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, capabale with > > > >>>tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy castings > > > >>>if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? > > > >>> > > > >>>Best, > > > >>>Hugh Lovel > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 13:39:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08213 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:39:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA09151; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:31:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08544 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:27:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-4-p63.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.63]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26741 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:29:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C8645C.F5F8073B@seattle2000.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:18:38 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump References: <199902151652.LAA24720@envirolink.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 405 Tony, Thanks so much for offering to share your sun driven water system. I am a small farmer on a shallow well with great need to expand water supply, off the grid. I have seen only one solar water pump and it was not actually available yet. Please let us know where to find out more. Best Regards, Martin Nyberg GreenMan Farm CSA 8800 SW Dilworth Rd Vashon WA. 98070 (206)567-4548 GreenMan@wolfenet.com jan stettler wrote: > Re: max handpump lift capacity for Ferdinand > > We've been off grid for the last twenty years, Y2K catastrophe means very > little to us. > There probably is some limit to pump lift, but Cumberland General Store > (the Sears for Amish folk), > fax (615) 456-1211, carries hand pumps capable of lifting almost 400 feet. > But why? > I have a 218 foot well, pumped directly from a D.C. pump, powered by six > PV panels. Whenever the sun shines water is pumped into a storage tank. > An elevated storage tank can use gravity to distribute the water whereever > you wish. > Unless you have sins you need to atone for by hand pumping, feel free to > contact me about sources and specs for a sun > driven system. > Tony > > ---------- > > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump > > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:51 AM > > > > Muchos gratias, many thanks for your info. Linda. REgards Ferdinand > > > > Linda Ray wrote: > > > > > Hi Ferdy, > > > > > > My information says about 30 feet deep is as far as one can > pull > > > with a hand pump. I have read also that there is apparently a way to > rig > > > up a "sliding sleeve" kind of well bucket which can bring smaller > > > amounts of water (about a quart IIRC?) up from deeper. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Linda > > > > > > ************************************************************* > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry for that omission. That's the depth of our well and a bit less > to the > > > > surface of our river. And just thinking of it IF you have a handpump, > the > > > > limit of pumping it up to the surface may be at 100' ? Does anybody > know from > > > > what max depth you can handpump. Best regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 14:44:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09393 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:44:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19751; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08831 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:29:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-4-p63.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.63]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26858 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:30:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C864C2.5488F874@seattle2000.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:20:20 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds References: <199902151735.MAA00152@envirolink.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 406 All the talk on the list about flow form moulds and no one wants to share how to get one? Seems a bit strange. I will certainly share what I find out Jan, if I ever do. Martin jan stettler wrote: > Apparently not. We tried to find this information and came a cropper. If > you do come up with this information, however, we would greatly appreciate > your generously sharing with us. > > ---------- > > From: Martin Nyberg > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds > > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 3:07 AM > > > > Hi all, > > I am not sure. I guess I must have made someone mad. I am sending > emails to the > > list but know one is answering. I again will ask though: > > "Could someone please send me readily understandable info on Flow forms? > Is > > there are Web site that describes them in total and allows one to > purchase or > > design one without great expense?" > > > > Martin Nyberg > > GreenMan Farm CSA > > 8800 SW Dilworth Rd > > Vashon WA. 98070 > > (206)567-4548 > > GreenMan@wolfenet.com > > > > > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > Friends, > > > > > > I know Mr. Wilks (for 25 years) in England who, for decades, has > studied the > > > flow of Water. He is living in miserable (MISERABLE) conditions and I > would never > > > want to make a copy of his flowforms unless I paid him some kind of an > artist's > > > royalty. John Wilks has to live from something. Giving lectures on > water flow, > > > healing the earth with the help of water, etc. etc. (and receiving > handouts - > > > the hat at the entrance to the lecture hall collects a mere $100.-- on > some > > > evenings) is simply not enough. John Wilks has been ripped of so often > (and > > > copied for nothing so often) that we are going to loose a Genius IF we > do not > > > have the generosity to pay (as much as we individually can) for each > copy we > > > take. Flowforms look exquisit once they have been installed, yet, give > the man a > > > living, too. Regards Ferdinand > > > > > > . > > > Woody Wodraska wrote: > > > > > > > Conrad: > > > > > > > > I don't think we're talking about corporate-style profiteering here. > I'd > > > > guess > > > > no flowform maker on the planet has sold more than a couple hundred > sets of > > > > the > > > > things. My point has to do with honoring the artistic work and > craftsmanship > > > > [craftswomanship] of decades that went into the design of flowforms. > If the > > > > man in Florida wants to duplicate some of that to design his own, > more > > > > power to > > > > him. If someone [not Mr. Luzader certainly] were to make a mould of > an > > > > existing design to cast their own replica, IMO that's a ripoff. > > > > > > > > Woody > > > > > > > > At 08:43 AM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Why cannot these natural forms of nature be shared? Is it really > helping > > > > >the whole world clean up effort when flowforms are still mystical > and only > > > > >a select group of initiates know how to make them and are selling > the > > > > >design specs? > > > > > > > > > >Curious, Conrad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hugh: > > > > >> > > > > >>Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial > and error > > > > >>that > > > > >>John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? > > > > >> > > > > >>Woody > > > > >> > > > > >>At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > > >>>Dear Folks, > > > > >>> > > > > >>>Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him > how to > > > > >>>cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, > capabale with > > > > >>>tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy > castings > > > > >>>if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? > > > > >>> > > > > >>>Best, > > > > >>>Hugh Lovel > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 15:11:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09845 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:11:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA24055; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:02:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA13780 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:01:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem5.digisys.net [205.138.110.54]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03907 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:03:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36C870F8.2400E82C@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:09:44 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump References: <199902151652.LAA24720@envirolink.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 407 I've got a question, could a Hydraulic Ram (ie Cumberland General Store type for example) be a replacement for existing electric well motor? I'm way out of my league here, but have two different situations: (1) to rig existing 200' well for Y2K and beyond, and; (2) installation of a new well on another property for Y2K and beyond. The depth of the new well (two available aquifers, one at a depth of approximately 250-300' and the other depth at roughly 600-800'). Truly appreciate all input on this. Pat Hironimus jan stettler wrote: > Re: max handpump lift capacity for Ferdinand > > We've been off grid for the last twenty years, Y2K catastrophe means very > little to us. > There probably is some limit to pump lift, but Cumberland General Store > (the Sears for Amish folk), > fax (615) 456-1211, carries hand pumps capable of lifting almost 400 feet. > But why? > I have a 218 foot well, pumped directly from a D.C. pump, powered by six > PV panels. Whenever the sun shines water is pumped into a storage tank. > An elevated storage tank can use gravity to distribute the water whereever > you wish. > Unless you have sins you need to atone for by hand pumping, feel free to > contact me about sources and specs for a sun > driven system. > Tony > > ---------- > > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump > > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:51 AM > > > > Muchos gratias, many thanks for your info. Linda. REgards Ferdinand > > > > Linda Ray wrote: > > > > > Hi Ferdy, > > > > > > My information says about 30 feet deep is as far as one can > pull > > > with a hand pump. I have read also that there is apparently a way to > rig > > > up a "sliding sleeve" kind of well bucket which can bring smaller > > > amounts of water (about a quart IIRC?) up from deeper. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Linda > > > > > > ************************************************************* > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry for that omission. That's the depth of our well and a bit less > to the > > > > surface of our river. And just thinking of it IF you have a handpump, > the > > > > limit of pumping it up to the surface may be at 100' ? Does anybody > know from > > > > what max depth you can handpump. Best regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 15:12:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09879 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:12:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA23979; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:02:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13004 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:56:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0105.direct.ca ([204.244.83.5] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CTDN-0001C5-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:57:54 -0800 Message-ID: <36C86DB7.2FC8B3CF@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:55:51 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Who is a Christian, who? References: <1.5.4.32.19990215152936.03715e80@mail.metro.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 408 Well, well, well. So be it. Love Ferdinand Chris & Tanya Bowland wrote: > At 11:40 PM 2/14/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Dear Martin, > >What is a Christian? > > > >Well, if I understand Dr. Steiner right, he says that a Christian is a > person who > >completely understands, appreciates and loves ALL religions. > > Ferdinand, > > Then I hope that you are misunderstanding Steiner. "Christian" comes to us > from the very early first century, and was a term that others used(sometimes > disparagingly) to refer to those who followed the teachings of Jesus Christ > as preached by the apostles. Certainly at the heart of Christ's Gospel was > to love ALL people, which to me includes respecting others' beliefs. One > does not have to completely understand anything to be a follower of Christ; > in fact, He said that faith was the only requirement to following Him. > > >A Christian is the synthesis of all what has come to us. > > Christ said that He is the synthesis of all which(and whom) have come to us. > > >It will take a long, long time before we see the first Christians on this > Earth, my friend. > > I agree with your sentiment. Becoming more Christ-like is a lifelong journey. > > -Chris > > >Regards Ferdinand > > > >Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > >> I am not so sure these words are "so true" Alison. If I remember > correctly, Steiner > >> was not a Christian but founded "Theosophy" which is based upon the > philosophy of > >> Buddhism, much more so that Christianity. I am a Buddhist (for 24 > years), and can find > >> "borrowed Buddhism" throughout Theosophical cosmology. I am not prepared > to expound on > >> this, but I am quite convinced of it. > >> > >> Martin Nyberg > >> > >> ALISON EADES wrote: > >> > >> > These words are so true. Thank you Todd for bringing them here. > >> > > >> > Alison > >> > > >> > Todd Powell wrote: > >> > > >> > > Let's remember to meditate first on the One who created Rudolph Steiner: > >> > > > >> > > A thought on Y2K from John Piper, a pastor in the Twin Cities area. > >> > > > >> > > Do you want a prophetic word about Y2K? I have two prophetic words about > >> > > Y2K. > >> > > First, the greatest need on January 1, 2000, will not be > basements stocked > >> > > with food and water and generators, but hearts stocked with the Word of > >> > > God. You will be fruitful, you will flourish, you will be life-giving not > >> > > by seeking the very things the world seeks (Matthew 6:32), but by > >> > > delighting in the Word of God and meditating on it day and night. > What the > >> > > world will need and does need from the church is the Word of God that > fits > >> > > us to say, "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will > tribulation, > >> > > or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? > >> > > In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. > >> > > (Romans 8:35-37) > >> > > The other prophetic word about Y2K is this: Nothing is going > to happen on > >> > > January 1, 2000; nothing, that is as bad as what is already happening to > >> > > persecuted and starving Christians in Sudan. Or the the staggering number > >> > > of orphans in Malawi and other AIDS devastated countries of Africa. Or to > >> > > survivors in Honduras and Nicaragua. Or to lonely, dying old people in > >> > > dozens of skilled care centers around the Twin Cities who have outlived > >> > > their families. There is something that smells of hypocrisy in the talk > >> > > about stockpiling supplies in our home to "minister" to others in the > >> > > coming Y2K crisis when there are more places to minister this very > day that > >> > > are in worse crisis than anything that is going to happen a year from > now. > >> > > Y2K will happen to someone every day in 1999--many of them within your > >> > > reach. Delight yourself in the Word of God, meditate on it day and night, > >> > > and then take the fruit of your life and go minister to the lost and the > >> > > hungry and the thirsty that are already so many. Then you won't even > notice > >> > > when Y2K happens. > >> > > Copyright John Piper. You are permitted and encouraged to > reproduce and > >> > > distribute this material in any format provided that: (1) you credit the > >> > > author, (2) any modifications are clearly marked, (3) you do not charge a > >> > > fee beyond the cost of reproductions, and (4) you do not make more than > >> > > 1,000 copies. If you would like to post this material to the web or > if your > >> > > intended use is other than outlined above, please contact Desiring God > >> > > Ministries, 720 13th Ave. South, Minneapolis, MN 55415 > >> > > > >> > > ---------- > >> > > > From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US > >> > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > >> > > > Subject: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) > >> > > > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:48 PM > >> > > > > >> > > > Dear Friends on Bd-Now, > >> > > > I was recently having lunch here in NYC with some biodynamic farmer > >> > > friends > >> > > > from Virginia. We got around to discussing the millenium, > apocalypse and > >> > > > Y2K (between courses) and had lots to discuss. This is a meditation he > >> > > sent > >> > > > to me when they returned home even though he was the one who > thought NYC > >> > > > would be wiped out by floods, and not I! > >> > > > > >> > > > Best Regards, > >> > > > Jane Sherry > >> > > > > >> > > > "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes > >> > > towards > >> > > > the > >> > > > human being out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all feelings > >> > > and > >> > > > sensations about the future. > >> > > > > >> > > > We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may > >> > > come. > >> > > > And > >> > > > we must think only that whatever comes is given to us by a world > >> > > directive > >> > > > full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, > namely, to > >> > > > live > >> > > > out of pure trust, without any security in existence. Trust in the ever > >> > > > present help of the spiritual world. > >> > > > > >> > > > Truely, nothing esle will do if our courage is not to fail us. > >> > > > And let us seek the awakening from within outselves, every morning and > >> > > > evening." > >> > > >> > -- > >> > ?Ďࡱ > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 17:05:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12551 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:05:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09221; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:53:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA16311 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:17:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0105.direct.ca ([204.244.83.5] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CTXk-0002op-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:18:56 -0800 Message-ID: <36C872D4.EE204B18@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:17:40 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: E-coli bacteria and feeding. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 409 Martha Wells writes the following: Something that has been cropping up more often in the news is the recall of meat products because of E-coli contamination. Something Ferdinand said made me go back and do a little research. He mentioned that in the '70's, the products he was using, intestines, etc, were still fairly healthy tissue. But, for the last 25+ years, they have been weak and watery and poor quality. I found this article in the same New Age magazine as the GE column that may be a key as to why this is happening. In this instance, the farmers will fight science over the outcome. When, actually lab studies have been the beneficial party here, and shown what some of the problems are. One thing that happens more now (a practice at least 25 years old) is that cattle are feedlotted months prior to slaughter. Feeding grain products seems harmless enough, but actually, it helps foster a more acidic environment in the animal's digestive tracts. All animals, man included, harbor E-coli naturally, but the human stomach is normally more acidic than a cow's. When grains are fed, the Coliform bacteria in cows have evolved to withstand the higher acid levels. And, this increases the chances that the deadly strains of E-coli surviving to reach humans. At Cornell University, researchers have discovered that simply switching back to a low-protein hay diet for the last five days before slaughter dramatically reduces the number of acid-resistant E-coli. And this is something that commercial ranchers & feed lots are unlikely to accept. (Too hard to mechanize hay feeding, and storing quantities of hay is going to be unprofitable.) Again, the magazine suggests buying organic, but again, that's not the total answer. You need to know the producer of your foods, and their actual practices. (An organic grain diet would be just as acidic as commercial feeds.) The people who grow your foods need to be open to suggestion about what you require, and by the same token, you need to be prepared to pay the extra amount for special handling, etc. martha A few days ago, the US Dept. of Health (I think the FDA) (correct name?) was given permission to irradiate meat and poultry because of E-coli bacteria. Here we go again. If you read Martha's letter, you will find that there is a partial answer to the E-coli problem contained in it. But, it does not profit the industry i.e. it reduces the net take. What we are going to be faced with (mankind) is a bigger and bigger challenge on a more and more perverse level namely, the total collapse of our immune system. The perversity lies in the fact that the chemical industry 'will have to find' new drugs to combat the deterioration of the immune system and will make money big time. It appears that they all work neatly together, don't they? Well, yes and no! They only work neatly together because their thinking is 'money' oriented, 'profit' oriented, materialistic - under the (almost) total exclusion of what is human, worth living for. Collusion? Yes! Materialism! If you can get enough people together to make them all think the same way you will have a nice system going for yourself (for a while). Communism has collapsed. And according to Steiner, what we see in America (as possibly called capitalism) will collaps the same way. He indicated that it will continue to survive a bit longer than Communism. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 17:06:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12563 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:06:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09404; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:53:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17975 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:26:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [193.237.213.190] (helo=watating.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10CTgx-0007ga-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:28:28 +0000 Message-ID: <36C83183.2C7F650D@watating.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:38:59 +0000 From: ALISON EADES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: GM food References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 410 And today in The Guardian again, headlines, a call to Tony for an Ethics Commission on genetically modified food "amid growing evidence of deep divisions among ministers over the safety of GM products." A second but also headline story shows a big pic of a pig and the news that an American company (Genzyme Corporation) has applied to test its treatment of Parkinson's disease in humans by injecting cells from pig foetus into their brains, in Britain. Apparantly it is already being tried on American patients and the results are "encouraging". A subsidiary of Novartis (Imutran) based in Cambridge, England, is engineering piggies to contain human genes so they can later do transplants. They haven't yet applied for license to transplant. The Environment Minister, Michael Meacher floated the idea of the Ethics Commission and the idea is creating lots of politics - a man-made food particularly addictive to Londoners. But the Cabinet (the bosses) issued "renewed assurances that GM foods on sale in the UK are safe". The fact that the Minister for Science in the Department for Trade and Industry happens to be Lord Sainsbury - as in the national supermarket chain 'Sainsburys' (which has been involved with GE) has, of course, got nothing to do with anything. There is increasing interest in Breatharians in the popular media. Just a thought. Alison Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > TONY Blair last night flew in the face of public opinion by ruling out a ban > on genetically modified foods as leading scientists warned of a "doomsday > scenario" of widespread deaths if human immune systems are weakened. > The Prime Minister dug his heels in after 20 international scientists > supported calls for a five-year moratorium on experiments and sales of the > so-called Frankenstein foods. > The scientists strongly backed the controversial findings of suppressed > research by Dr Arpad Pusztai, of the Rowett Institute in Aberdeen, which > found that rats fed on genetically modified potatoes suffered a weakened > immune system and damage to vital organs. > But Mr Blair insisted that there was, as yet, no scientific justification > for a moratorium, despite the latest opinion poll, which showed that 62 per > cent of consumers disapprove of GM food and 74 per cent say manufacturers > are not doing enough to label it. > There were increasing clamours for Dr Pusztai's findings to be reinstated > and accusations that the Government was trying to keep favour with the big > multinationals which produce GM foods, such as the US company Monsanto. > But Vyvyan Howard, a toxicopathologist at Liverpool University, said: "The > implications are enormous. We really must be careful about where we are > going." > Dr Ronald Finn, of the department of medicine at Liverpool University, said > it was vital that the Government learned the lessons of BSE. He said if the > immune systems of people across the country were weakened, then there would > be more deaths from cancer and that a flu epidemic, which currently leads to > small number of deaths could increase to hundreds. > "You can imagine a doomsday scenario. If the immune system of the population > was weakened, then the mortality would be increased many, many times." > The Rowett Institute had initially supported Dr Pustzai but after he > appeared on World in Action the mood changed and he was suspended, and was > later forced to retire, after being accused of releasing "misleading > information". > Professor Philip James, the head of the Rowett Institute who ordered Dr > Pusztai's suspension, helped to draw up the plans for the Government's Food > Standards Agency and is widely tipped to be its first head. > He strongly denied that he had been responding to political or commercial > pressures when he ordered Dr Pusztai's suspension, although he acknowledged > the enormous interest the institute's work attracted. > "There has been intense interest around the world and there has been > pressure by different groups to distort what is going on because they are so > committed either to going gung-ho for biotechnology or saying this is > absolutely appalling. > "We have to operate in the public interest," he said. > Dr Stanley Ewen, of Aberdeen University's Medical School, claimed there > could have been interference with Dr Pusztai's suspension. > Dr Ewen, a distinguished pathologist, said: "He certainly was gagged. One > hears a variety of rumours and, of course, in this type of situation there > will be rumours abounding. It is suggested that there may have been pressure > from somewhere in Government. > "The big question is why there was such a volte-face. At first the institute > support him and then he was suspended." > Dr Ian Gibson, Labour MP for Norwich and the former Dean of Biology at the > University of East Anglia, said: "To suppress any scientific document would > be a gross error of judgment. All science should be open so that people can > judge for themselves." He said the Government was "shilly shallying" over GM > foods because of worries about big business. > Charles Secrett, the executive director of Friends of the Earth, said he > believed that President Clinton had spoken to Mr Blair last year urging his > government to do all it could to facilitate the rapid commercialisation of > GM foods. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Schley [mailto:tschley@RT66.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 1999 2:24 PM > To: Bergeron, Ray; Bjelic, Dusan; Cotter, Daniel; greg de Nevers; > Helmick, Jenn; Hemingway, Jim; James Gillen; Kantoku; Kristen Martine; > Kurt Anschuetz; Lovell, Merrily > Subject: [Fwd: GE - some good news?] -- ĐĎࡱá From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 17:06:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12575 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:06:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09535; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:54:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24446 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:05:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from laquerencia@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D3H9QS72; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:03:43 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:04:38 -0600 Subject: Re: BD Farms in North-West Arkansas USA Message-ID: <19990215.140438.17814.0.LaQuerencia@juno.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990215105953.01b9c0f0@midcoast.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-8,13-14,21-22,24-30 From: Deborah M Byron Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 411 "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" wrote: >A friend of mine is looking at buying a small organic farm in >north-west>Arkansas. She wanted to know if there were any BD farms in that part >of>Arkansas. Please let me know about BD folk in that area. Dear John and Kathleen, I've been in NW Arkansas for 18+ months. The only BD I've heard of being practiced in this area is Elixir Farms in south-central Missouri and as yet I just haven't been able to wheedle an invitation to visit from those Brixey women :-). However, some of us here do BD gardening and some beekeeping and would be glad to hear from your friend. As an aside, I also know of 120 acres of excellent bottom pasture (3 foot deep top soil, I'm told) bordering on a year round spring-fed creek about 15 miles southeast of Eureka Springs, Arkansas. Last time I heard, it was priced at $1,000/acre. My organic/permaculture friends living close by were hoping for sympatico neighbors. And there is a wonderful farmers market in Fayetteville (as well as other towns) providing an outlet for farmers throughout the region. Feel free to have your friend contact me. It would be great to have more BD people in this part of the country. Warm regards, Deborah Byron LaQuerencia@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 17:06:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12582 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:06:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09453; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:54:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21548 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:48:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (ascend6.netrover.com [205.209.21.7]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20285 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:49:45 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:43:41 -0500 Message-ID: <01be591b$7d50f800$7b1bd1cd@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 412 Martin : You must have missed this previous info posted at : http://www.jademountain.com/wellpumps.html -----Original Message----- From: Martin Nyberg To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 1:32 PM Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump >Tony, >Thanks so much for offering to share your sun driven water system. I am a small >farmer on a shallow well with great need to expand water supply, off the grid. I >have seen only one solar water pump and it was not actually available yet. Please >let us know where to find out more. > >Best Regards, > >Martin Nyberg >GreenMan Farm CSA >8800 SW Dilworth Rd >Vashon WA. 98070 >(206)567-4548 >GreenMan@wolfenet.com > >jan stettler wrote: > >> Re: max handpump lift capacity for Ferdinand >> >> We've been off grid for the last twenty years, Y2K catastrophe means very >> little to us. >> There probably is some limit to pump lift, but Cumberland General Store >> (the Sears for Amish folk), >> fax (615) 456-1211, carries hand pumps capable of lifting almost 400 feet. >> But why? >> I have a 218 foot well, pumped directly from a D.C. pump, powered by six >> PV panels. Whenever the sun shines water is pumped into a storage tank. >> An elevated storage tank can use gravity to distribute the water whereever >> you wish. >> Unless you have sins you need to atone for by hand pumping, feel free to >> contact me about sources and specs for a sun >> driven system. >> Tony >> >> ---------- >> > From: Ferdinand Vondruska >> > To: bdnow@envirolink.org >> > Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump >> > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:51 AM >> > >> > Muchos gratias, many thanks for your info. Linda. REgards Ferdinand >> > >> > Linda Ray wrote: >> > >> > > Hi Ferdy, >> > > >> > > My information says about 30 feet deep is as far as one can >> pull >> > > with a hand pump. I have read also that there is apparently a way to >> rig >> > > up a "sliding sleeve" kind of well bucket which can bring smaller >> > > amounts of water (about a quart IIRC?) up from deeper. >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > Linda >> > > >> > > ************************************************************* >> > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Sorry for that omission. That's the depth of our well and a bit less >> to the >> > > > surface of our river. And just thinking of it IF you have a handpump, >> the >> > > > limit of pumping it up to the surface may be at 100' ? Does anybody >> know from >> > > > what max depth you can handpump. Best regards Ferdinand > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 17:08:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12599 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:08:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09668; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:55:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from send205.yahoomail.com (send205.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.129]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA01514 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:57:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990215205947.18051.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Received: from [128.143.38.154] by send205.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:59:47 PST Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:59:47 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 413 pat, According to my understanding, a 'ram' pump is a pump that works off the principle of using lots of water flowing(dropping two or more feet) to make a smaller volume of water flow uphill. The examples that i have seen ads for call for 85 gallons of water going down two feet, in order to pump 15 gallons of water up at least 30ft in elevation. This is primarilly a pump useful in the setting of a river. I do not know how you can gain any energy from a well inorder to achieve the pumping action. These 'ram' pumps can be highly portable, and i have seen tv ads that sold ram pumps for hunters to carry along on campouts. this would make it easier to camp away from the river, and not carry in water. This model used flexible hose to accomplish the task. bruce ritchie ---"P. Hironimus" wrote: > > I've got a question, could a Hydraulic Ram (ie Cumberland General Store type for > example) be a replacement for existing electric well motor? I'm way out of my league > here, but have two different situations: (1) to rig existing 200' well for Y2K and > beyond, and; (2) installation of a new well on another property for Y2K and beyond. > The depth of the new well (two available aquifers, one at a depth of approximately > 250-300' and the other depth at roughly 600-800'). > > Truly appreciate all input on this. > > Pat Hironimus > > jan stettler wrote: > > > Re: max handpump lift capacity for Ferdinand > > > > We've been off grid for the last twenty years, Y2K catastrophe means very > > little to us. > > There probably is some limit to pump lift, but Cumberland General Store > > (the Sears for Amish folk), > > fax (615) 456-1211, carries hand pumps capable of lifting almost 400 feet. > > But why? > > I have a 218 foot well, pumped directly from a D.C. pump, powered by six > > PV panels. Whenever the sun shines water is pumped into a storage tank. > > An elevated storage tank can use gravity to distribute the water whereever > > you wish. > > Unless you have sins you need to atone for by hand pumping, feel free to > > contact me about sources and specs for a sun > > driven system. > > Tony > > > > ---------- > > > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump > > > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:51 AM > > > > > > Muchos gratias, many thanks for your info. Linda. REgards Ferdinand > > > > > > Linda Ray wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Ferdy, > > > > > > > > My information says about 30 feet deep is as far as one can > > pull > > > > with a hand pump. I have read also that there is apparently a way to > > rig > > > > up a "sliding sleeve" kind of well bucket which can bring smaller > > > > amounts of water (about a quart IIRC?) up from deeper. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Linda > > > > > > > > ************************************************************* > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for that omission. That's the depth of our well and a bit less > > to the > > > > > surface of our river. And just thinking of it IF you have a handpump, > > the > > > > > limit of pumping it up to the surface may be at 100' ? Does anybody > > know from > > > > > what max depth you can handpump. Best regards Ferdinand > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 17:08:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12613 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:08:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA09774; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA03081 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:09:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CVIL-0005Nr-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:11:10 -0800 Message-ID: <36C88D27.E43D6CBB@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:09:59 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds References: <199902151735.MAA00152@envirolink.org> <36C864C2.5488F874@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 414 Martin, There was a Flowform meeting at Christopher Altemueller, Vancouver Island, last year and a delegate form our Society attended. We bought a set for $800.-- and wish to buy another set, if possible. You may want to contact Mr. Altemueller at 250-746-4117 when or if another meeting is going to be planned (he even may have a form left) Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > All the talk on the list about flow form moulds and no one wants to share how > to get one? Seems a bit strange. I will certainly share what I find out > Jan, if I ever do. > > Martin > > jan stettler wrote: > > > Apparently not. We tried to find this information and came a cropper. If > > you do come up with this information, however, we would greatly appreciate > > your generously sharing with us. > > > > ---------- > > > From: Martin Nyberg > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds > > > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 3:07 AM > > > > > > Hi all, > > > I am not sure. I guess I must have made someone mad. I am sending > > emails to the > > > list but know one is answering. I again will ask though: > > > "Could someone please send me readily understandable info on Flow forms? > > Is > > > there are Web site that describes them in total and allows one to > > purchase or > > > design one without great expense?" > > > > > > Martin Nyberg > > > GreenMan Farm CSA > > > 8800 SW Dilworth Rd > > > Vashon WA. 98070 > > > (206)567-4548 > > > GreenMan@wolfenet.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > > Friends, > > > > > > > > I know Mr. Wilks (for 25 years) in England who, for decades, has > > studied the > > > > flow of Water. He is living in miserable (MISERABLE) conditions and I > > would never > > > > want to make a copy of his flowforms unless I paid him some kind of an > > artist's > > > > royalty. John Wilks has to live from something. Giving lectures on > > water flow, > > > > healing the earth with the help of water, etc. etc. (and receiving > > handouts - > > > > the hat at the entrance to the lecture hall collects a mere $100.-- on > > some > > > > evenings) is simply not enough. John Wilks has been ripped of so often > > (and > > > > copied for nothing so often) that we are going to loose a Genius IF we > > do not > > > > have the generosity to pay (as much as we individually can) for each > > copy we > > > > take. Flowforms look exquisit once they have been installed, yet, give > > the man a > > > > living, too. Regards Ferdinand > > > > > > > > . > > > > Woody Wodraska wrote: > > > > > > > > > Conrad: > > > > > > > > > > I don't think we're talking about corporate-style profiteering here. > > I'd > > > > > guess > > > > > no flowform maker on the planet has sold more than a couple hundred > > sets of > > > > > the > > > > > things. My point has to do with honoring the artistic work and > > craftsmanship > > > > > [craftswomanship] of decades that went into the design of flowforms. > > If the > > > > > man in Florida wants to duplicate some of that to design his own, > > more > > > > > power to > > > > > him. If someone [not Mr. Luzader certainly] were to make a mould of > > an > > > > > existing design to cast their own replica, IMO that's a ripoff. > > > > > > > > > > Woody > > > > > > > > > > At 08:43 AM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >Why cannot these natural forms of nature be shared? Is it really > > helping > > > > > >the whole world clean up effort when flowforms are still mystical > > and only > > > > > >a select group of initiates know how to make them and are selling > > the > > > > > >design specs? > > > > > > > > > > > >Curious, Conrad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hugh: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial > > and error > > > > > >>that > > > > > >>John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? > > > > > >> > > > > > >>Woody > > > > > >> > > > > > >>At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > >>>Dear Folks, > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him > > how to > > > > > >>>cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, > > capabale with > > > > > >>>tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy > > castings > > > > > >>>if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>Best, > > > > > >>>Hugh Lovel > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 17:56:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13630 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:56:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA16697; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:46:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09985 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:56:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from 209.143.11.48 (hils-ras1-2-cs-20.dial.bright.net [209.143.11.48]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id QAA17068 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:58:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C89887.3CAB@bright.net> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:58:30 -0500 From: Marilyn Hiestand Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump References: <199902151652.LAA24720@envirolink.org> <36C8645C.F5F8073B@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 415 Real Goods in California has put out the Solar Living Source Book that has solar powered pumps plus alot more...their web page is www.realgoods.com. Marilyn From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 18:44:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14361 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:44:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA22622; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:35:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22218 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:31:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-2-p98.wolfenet.com [206.159.28.98]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15100 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:33:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C8ABB8.132DD89A@seattle2000.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:20:27 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds References: <199902151735.MAA00152@envirolink.org> <36C864C2.5488F874@seattle2000.com> <36C88D27.E43D6CBB@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 416 Thanks so much ! Martin Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Martin, > There was a Flowform meeting at Christopher Altemueller, Vancouver Island, last > year and a delegate form our Society attended. We bought a set for $800.-- and > wish to buy another set, if possible. You may want to contact Mr. Altemueller at > 250-746-4117 when or if another meeting is going to be planned (he even may have > a form left) Regards Ferdinand > > Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > All the talk on the list about flow form moulds and no one wants to share how > > to get one? Seems a bit strange. I will certainly share what I find out > > Jan, if I ever do. > > > > Martin > > > > jan stettler wrote: > > > > > Apparently not. We tried to find this information and came a cropper. If > > > you do come up with this information, however, we would greatly appreciate > > > your generously sharing with us. > > > > > > ---------- > > > > From: Martin Nyberg > > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > > Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds > > > > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 3:07 AM > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I am not sure. I guess I must have made someone mad. I am sending > > > emails to the > > > > list but know one is answering. I again will ask though: > > > > "Could someone please send me readily understandable info on Flow forms? > > > Is > > > > there are Web site that describes them in total and allows one to > > > purchase or > > > > design one without great expense?" > > > > > > > > Martin Nyberg > > > > GreenMan Farm CSA > > > > 8800 SW Dilworth Rd > > > > Vashon WA. 98070 > > > > (206)567-4548 > > > > GreenMan@wolfenet.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > > > > Friends, > > > > > > > > > > I know Mr. Wilks (for 25 years) in England who, for decades, has > > > studied the > > > > > flow of Water. He is living in miserable (MISERABLE) conditions and I > > > would never > > > > > want to make a copy of his flowforms unless I paid him some kind of an > > > artist's > > > > > royalty. John Wilks has to live from something. Giving lectures on > > > water flow, > > > > > healing the earth with the help of water, etc. etc. (and receiving > > > handouts - > > > > > the hat at the entrance to the lecture hall collects a mere $100.-- on > > > some > > > > > evenings) is simply not enough. John Wilks has been ripped of so often > > > (and > > > > > copied for nothing so often) that we are going to loose a Genius IF we > > > do not > > > > > have the generosity to pay (as much as we individually can) for each > > > copy we > > > > > take. Flowforms look exquisit once they have been installed, yet, give > > > the man a > > > > > living, too. Regards Ferdinand > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > Woody Wodraska wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Conrad: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think we're talking about corporate-style profiteering here. > > > I'd > > > > > > guess > > > > > > no flowform maker on the planet has sold more than a couple hundred > > > sets of > > > > > > the > > > > > > things. My point has to do with honoring the artistic work and > > > craftsmanship > > > > > > [craftswomanship] of decades that went into the design of flowforms. > > > If the > > > > > > man in Florida wants to duplicate some of that to design his own, > > > more > > > > > > power to > > > > > > him. If someone [not Mr. Luzader certainly] were to make a mould of > > > an > > > > > > existing design to cast their own replica, IMO that's a ripoff. > > > > > > > > > > > > Woody > > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:43 AM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Why cannot these natural forms of nature be shared? Is it really > > > helping > > > > > > >the whole world clean up effort when flowforms are still mystical > > > and only > > > > > > >a select group of initiates know how to make them and are selling > > > the > > > > > > >design specs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Curious, Conrad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hugh: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>Is he planning to go through the long years of design work trial > > > and error > > > > > > >>that > > > > > > >>John Wilkes, Jennifer Greene and others have done? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>Woody > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>At 05:10 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > >>>Dear Folks, > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>Bob Luzader of Eustis Florida is looking for someone to show him > > > how to > > > > > > >>>cast his own flowform moulds. He's a retired Naval officer, > > > capabale with > > > > > > >>>tools and a long time BD nut. It doesn't make sense to ship heavy > > > castings > > > > > > >>>if they can be moulded on site. Who can help him? > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>Best, > > > > > > >>>Hugh Lovel > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 19:08:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA14620 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:08:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA25524; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:59:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25312 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:57:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem139.digisys.net [205.138.110.188]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA04193 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:59:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36C8B640.7FA2F6A0@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:05:20 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Greenhouse Covering 10'x20' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 417 Can anyone recommend a good company for replacement greenhouse coverings? Thanks, Pat Hironimus From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 19:21:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA14792 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:21:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA27002; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:11:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26745 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:09:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp255.cy-net.net [208.21.195.64]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA11495 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:25:48 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5905.90CCC500@FLYLO>; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:06:45 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5905.90CCC500@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: The Hunger Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:06:43 -0600 Encoding: 24 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 418 This was intended to go to Ferdinand, but after 3 failed attempts and bounced messages, I'm posting a rather long-winded e-mail to BD NOW list. Anyone, feel free to respond! Good Evening Ferdinand; Hope you got your e-mail salted away and ready for another onslaught. I'm waiting to see if my current batch of e-mail to BDNOW surfaces cleanly before I post more. I have been writing (mostly thinking about the topic rather than writing down notes.) on the subject line I mentioned. I can't describe it as a certain anything but a hunger, a yearning for a something. I think everyone has it to some degree. Not a food hunger, but a mildly unsatisfied, uncontented state of being. And this isn't expressing it accurately, either. Maybe it's more of a mental expansion. We expand our minds, and then search to fill the voids up with knowledge and experience and education. But the secret is the void is never full. I mention it to someone who is deeply religious and they say, "Oh, you just haven't found your Jesus yet." maybe so, but it's more. The State of mankind always seems to yearn for more knowledge, more experiences, etc. Would that it be wonderful if the biotechnology backing, money lenders, and all the wonders of science could have turned their own 'Hunger' to positive actions rather than to short term goalsetting? Just a little food for thought before I have to go milk the goats tonight. take care, martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 20:06:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA15227 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:06:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA02782; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:56:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02437 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:54:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp255.cy-net.net [208.21.195.64]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA17244 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:10:17 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE590B.AE90F380@FLYLO>; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:50:32 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE590B.AE90F380@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: greenhouses Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:50:31 -0600 Encoding: 15 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 419 We were in a hurry and bought just cheap roll 'visqueen' 6 mil not really suitable for long term covering. We had erected electrical conduit pipe for the framework, bolted 2 x 4 lumber to it so we'd have good attachment base. Ours is about 10 x 20 x 12 tall. (Hey, pipe-bending is FUN!) The first one cost about $800 - $1000 but easily double that after the better covering is installed. We created one large one because we had intentionally ground-planted banana and citrus trees. Remember, about midMarch, we'll be ripping off anything that isn't shade-cloth covered. The greenhouse has an E window and a W door with sliding glass window in it, and it still reaches 110* temps mid day. Fans and eave vents should have been essential. Now looking at this site (Lexan corrugated material) http://www.icenter.net/~ggowler/lexan.htm I think the same company sells duraflex and both look very suitable for long term (and cold country) greenhouse material. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 20:31:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA15485 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:31:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA04990; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:10:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04722 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:08:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CZ1j-0006Re-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:10:16 -0800 Message-ID: <36C8C532.F4C6B93F@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:09:06 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Cow Hoves (instead of cow horns) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 420 For those of you who are making BD Preparations (500 and 501) and are in need of cow horns. Remember Dr. Steiner's indication that cow hoves will do, too. Now, I got myself 8 cow legs (from last year's fall killing). I assumed that boiling or removing by force would not be right and so, I inserted them into a specially prepared compost. Today, I checked it out and, low and behold, my assumption was right. The hoves could be removed very easily. I dug them into the compost once more so that the worms could do their job properly. I think that by about April the hooves are ready and by May we can fill them with Silica. This is just for your info. However, spiritual observation tells me that the hooves are not the best ones. They appear to be 'lame'. The 'aura' (or Kirlian field) is not strong and solid so that, from the point of preparation making, I have to be careful. This is again a typical situation where we get animal parts that may look (from the outside) right, however, they do not pass the A1 test when it comes to preparation making. Further, I am working with two Waldorf School students (15 & 16 years old) what a joy. What an enrichment to the preparations. There is some very deep truth to it that girls at this age are able to add a wonderful etheric quality to preparation mixing. We are, at present, potentising Preparations: 502, 503, 505 and 506. Grinding gently in a mortar and pestle (by hand of course) and shaking the 10:1 mix for 12 minutes. While the girls giggle and rumba and walz through the specially prepared room that is insulated throughout with a layer of 7" of peatmoss. So, they are, spiritually speaking, without being bothered by anything from the outside world - and appear to love it thoroughly. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 20:33:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA15845 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:33:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA06348; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:22:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from marine.sonic.net (marine.sonic.net [208.201.224.37]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA06092 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:20:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 548 invoked from network); 16 Feb 1999 01:22:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sub.sonic.net) (208.201.224.8) by marine.sonic.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 1999 01:22:00 -0000 Received: from jalang (d175.pm12.sonic.net [208.201.230.175]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA32272 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:21:59 -0800 X-envelope-info: From: "James Langbecker" To: Subject: Heinz Grotzky, etc. Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:21:03 -0800 Message-ID: <000301be594a$9e3cf6c0$afe6c9d0@jalang.ppp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 421 Does anyone on the list know of the whereabouts of Heinz Grotzky, the original founder of Meadowbrook Herb Gardens in Rhode Island? Since I'm on the west coast and don't have many contacts in the east, can someone tell me of biodynamic farms in Connecticut, especially around New London, but not limited to it? Thanks in advance, James Langbecker From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 20:58:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA16494 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:58:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA08843; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:43:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08357 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:40:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CZWF-0004SY-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:41:48 -0800 Message-ID: <36C8CC96.527D3AF7@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:40:38 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Ostriches Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 422 Friends, Imagine what happened - an old lady drove into our farm, unloading two Ostriches (male and female) 'Want them?" - well, yes. So, they run in the horse field. They appear to eat grain and grass, however, if any of you has some experience with Ostriches, please let me know. That is certainly a new field for me. Incidentally, the two are a male and a female and are ready to lay eggs in spring. God, will I have to eat scrambled eggs. Regards Ferdinand (always something new.. ehh?) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 21:01:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16551 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:01:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA09264; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:46:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08974 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:44:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.172] (pm3shep4-163-172.intrepid.net [209.190.163.172]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19517 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:45:58 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:00:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: list BDNOW: List Message Rejected Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 423 Hi all: Hopefully this is not off topic. I'm located in east central Iowa, with formidable prairie winds. We've got a windbreak that is L-shaped and oriented to the northwest, designed to fend off the worst of the of the Canadian winter winds from some of our fields. This windbreak is fairly old, originally comprised of Norway blue spruce planted off-set in three distinct rows. There are now other types of "scrub" trees flourishing, to include osage orange, mulberries, etc. I've heard numerous opinions about windbreaks and windbreak design theory. The original windbreak I believe wasn't properly planted, as the trees "block" the wind instead of filtering it. The snow (and wind) are diverted up and over, causing quite an amount of turbulence on the leeward side. The additional trees now are increasing the wind block effect. We are planning on planting additional rows of trees to the windward side, designing the rows to graduate the wind over and graduated the wind downward. The question is: does anyone have any thoughts concerning removing the scrub trees in the original windbreak in order to allow more filtering? Or would you leave them to propagate even more? Thanks for your kind consideration Phil -------------------- Phil Forbes Frontier Natural Products Co-op Phone: (319) 227-7996 ex 1324 Fax: (319) 227-7966 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 21:03:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16560 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:03:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA09333; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:46:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09000 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:44:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.172] (pm3shep4-163-172.intrepid.net [209.190.163.172]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19539 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:46:02 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36C8ABB8.132DD89A@seattle2000.com> References: <199902151735.MAA00152@envirolink.org> <36C864C2.5488F874@seattle2000.com> <36C88D27.E43D6CBB@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:13:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 424 Just as a point of interest: Jennifer Green was a keynote speaker at our 1997 conference at Claymont Court. At that time, she contracted with me to set up a www page for her and we arranged with the indefatigable photojournalist of sustainable ag, Doug Mason, to take some 'water drop' photos at her Maine lab. Subsequently, Jennifer sent me a HOLD IT! fax, stating that she had a most wonderful designer involved on the website and I should wait and see what was to soon come up. That may have been a year ago. In the meantime, Jennifer has had a car injury and, as I understand it, is recovering in Switzerland (is she back yet? Anyone know?) One of these days, I'm going to ask her if we can start the www waterforms project once again. Someone sent me some wonderful pictures and brochures from NZ or OZ, but these were apparently appropriated before I could put them on the www. (If you are reading this, please send that beautiful stuff again!!) At the Rudolf Steiner College BD workshops, people from the N.California Permaculture group announced that they were going to bring the technology of flowforms down to the garden level and put this tool for remediation into the hands of the people who really need to use it daily. At that workshop, in fact, there were many from disciplines outside of biodynamics who felt that there was really nothing to coming up with an functional remedial flowform design without ripping off Jennifer or John. (check out the RSC flowforms on the BD Now! website http://www.igg.com/bdnow ) I dunno, I dunno, but I thought I'd share this. Allan Balliett BD NOW! POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-2373 (304) 876-9414 FAX =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 21:04:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16577 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:04:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA10295; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:55:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10092 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:53:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.172] (pm3shep4-163-172.intrepid.net [209.190.163.172]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21396 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:55:00 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000301be594a$9e3cf6c0$afe6c9d0@jalang.ppp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:56:03 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Heinz Grotzky, etc. Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 425 >Does anyone on the list know of the whereabouts of Heinz Grotzky, the >original founder of Meadowbrook Herb Gardens in Rhode Island? > >Since I'm on the west coast and don't have many contacts in the east, can >someone tell me of biodynamic farms in Connecticut, especially around New >London, but not limited to it? > >Thanks in advance, > >James Langbecker Heinz Grotzke retired from Meadowbook and, among other things, is now the erstwhile editor of BIODYNAMICS. You can contact him at POB 407, Wyoming, RI 02898. (401) 539-7037. Heinz also subscribed to the list some time ago, but has, to my knowledge, never graced us with a post. If you want a listing of BD farms in Connecticut, your best source would be the BDA at biodynamic@aol.com . Of course, always tell these folks who referred you! Allan Balliett BD NOW! POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-2373 (304) 876-9414 FAX =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 21:11:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16683 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:11:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA10869; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:01:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10577 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:58:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.172] (pm3shep4-163-172.intrepid.net [209.190.163.172]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22975 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:00:24 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36C8CC96.527D3AF7@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:01:10 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Ostriches Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 426 >Friends, > >Imagine what happened - an old lady drove into our farm, unloading two >Ostriches (male and female) 'Want them?" - well, yes. So, they run in >the horse field. They appear to eat grain and grass, however, if any of >you has some experience with Ostriches, please let me know. That is >certainly a new field for me. Incidentally, the two are a male and a >female and are ready to lay eggs in spring. God, will I have to eat >scrambled eggs. Regards Ferdinand (always something new.. ehh?) Man! What's your climate like there? How cold will it get between now and spring? -Allan igg@igg.com PS Saw the first robin here today!! (And great flights of honkers returned to the lowland nests at Claymont this week.) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 21:11:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16691 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:11:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA10922; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:01:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10704 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:59:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-1-p77.wolfenet.com [206.159.28.77]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25238 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:01:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C8CE68.D5D35E33@seattle2000.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:48:28 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ostriches References: <36C8CC96.527D3AF7@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 427 Well Ferdinand, I looked into Ostriches seriously 7 years ago when one egg was selling for $500 and a breeding pair was worth $35,000! I am not sure how or why you are gifted with a pair (pregnant at that) for free! Are you sure they are not "problem children"? Be careful. An ostrich can run as fast as 40 miles per hour and their legs and claws can kill with one slash. They are dinosaurs with feathers. They are about as smart as snakes and just as unpredictable. You will need at least 7 foot fences. Do you have them in your horse pasture? I wouldn't put your horses (or any other animal) in the same pasture. If you want to sell the eggs or breed, you will need to build or buy an incubator. DId the owner give you any contacts for expert ostrich care? If not, do a search right away on the Internet to read all about it..... Let us know how this adventure works out! Martin Nyberg Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Friends, > > Imagine what happened - an old lady drove into our farm, unloading two > Ostriches (male and female) 'Want them?" - well, yes. So, they run in > the horse field. They appear to eat grain and grass, however, if any of > you has some experience with Ostriches, please let me know. That is > certainly a new field for me. Incidentally, the two are a male and a > female and are ready to lay eggs in spring. God, will I have to eat > scrambled eggs. Regards Ferdinand (always something new.. ehh?) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 21:16:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16752 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA11582; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:07:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11355 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:05:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp255.cy-net.net [208.21.195.64]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA27231 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:21:16 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5915.7BD82260@FLYLO>; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:00:41 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5915.7BD82260@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Ostriches Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:00:40 -0600 Encoding: 29 TEXT, 66 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 428 We caught 2 emus running down the road last July, but ostriches are out of our league. However, I'll find out from my big bird breeders and get back on this.I do know these birds are fairly goof prone. A metal wrapper, bottle cap, whatever, they swallow without hesitation. They don't obey fence rules very easily either. Besides, the meat is tougher than boot leather. You'll have to incubate the eggs if you want offspring, and the pair will be overly protective when you steal eggs. I can get incubation times and temperatures if you're serious about this. The female in breeding condition should have a large vent area, and watch her for becoming egg bound. (Palpate or feel outside the vent bones) A bit of mineral oil or lighter weight oil will help if she is having difficulties. Watch out for the bird's kick, worse than a mule! (Have fun!) -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska [SMTP:ferdy@direct.ca] Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 7:41 PM To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Ostriches Friends, Imagine what happened - an old lady drove into our farm, unloading two Ostriches (male and female) 'Want them?" - well, yes. So, they run in the horse field. They appear to eat grain and grass, however, if any of you has some experience with Ostriches, please let me know. That is certainly a new field for me. Incidentally, the two are a male and a female and are ready to lay eggs in spring. God, will I have to eat scrambled eggs. Regards Ferdinand (always something new.. ehh?) begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(BH!`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&)D;F]W0&5N=FER;VQI;FLN;W)G`%-- M5% `8F1N;W= 96YV:7)O;&EN:RYO`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````$@`` M`&9L>6QO0'1X8WEB97(N8V]M`````P`&$+B6X)4#``<0Q@0``!X`"! !```` M90```%=%0T%51TA4,D5-55-254Y.24Y'1$]73E1(15)/041,05-42E5,62Q" M551/4U1224-(15-!4D5/551/1D]54DQ%04=514A/5T5615(L24Q,1DE.1$]5 M5$923TU-64))1T))4D0``````@$)$ $```!L!0``: 4``& '``!,6D9UJ?ZZ MSG<`"@$#`?<@`J0#XP(`8X)H"L!S970P( <3AP*#`% .]G!R<3(/]G)]"H%U M8P!0"P,+8&X@9S$P,S,,8&QN!0(@90NF(%=E(&,P875G: 5 $7!E;6)U!"!R M=6X#`!+P(,AD;W<#H'1H%& #8*AA9" +8',%0$H38*!Y+"!B=05 ;Q;@?P40 M#W 'D0K %& (8!>19D,8@07 ;&5A9PI0+F0@2!7P978$D!=02?0G; ,@9@N M%J 8D@-2Z"!M>1=@:17 &[ +(-\78 G1!($8,1K!9P_ %V"=`-!K%Z 6$@0` M+DD5T?P@:Q. !^ 6,0^P&^,8--IF"W!R%S =`&\8T1% .Q.1&:!!&W /P = M('?P(!2 `Z =$BQE)2'_%B 'T846$NU"/ = ]P)*$%P.\"$ 7 )C %H&T5HBTQ(?'E M%7!D&: H4 = "K LP?L%L29P90,@&)$HDA8C.J/S!N 3H',I(.$;L!BS/+'O M-.$^H0,1!;%L&\ 4P"H1_QG@0=)!0R_#%D ]X"UR.6!_-^$$("OA%:,&D!J@ M+(!LWR40!Y 9H JB"H!7.Z,:\U<%L18R&_(G!"!K%_!K?R*A!; >\2I#.B 5 M(!E (94]H$@K\F85<"$I183C2;@2L6DS-@% ,+40A% Q-B M3#)/!1!GJPN M(4%-!Y!S&6!E3#,?2;8PQ$L1"Q-+1FDM,8PT- % 0< Q.# !0*,,T$_38B!& M`V$Z#(.Z8@_@1@20.'$4S0/+!CMP] M5*@.:$+8/]3P!70`V L`0N +#$9`A_ ?')M%U 5< D`%I 5 MHG3_1]!%A%S7/: WLQS2-Y1 ((XG1> N$18Q;3\B8O&7&> :45"4V\C M1?\582Q11806,B1@1_(:H#Z0_SV!)7,AD@K!+#$I4@G "W'_',0A@ 00%U D M8!GE+8$`<+\;D!C0180ML@^ !"!S`W#]+1%X(;%@@2:A)#)5>&,883L!8[$L,0M@WR=A+4,Y02Z#&:!' M!' BH?\OTAX@*^8I446$!/%:\ )@>V+1,E12+3 +$00@4?@H>P= (\!Y<$0= MT16Q=3$NX1F@96AH/TFO"H 2`0(`@O #`! 0``````,`$1 ``````P" $/__ M__] ```"6 "" &``````# M````````1@````!4A0```0````0````X+C ``P`F@ @@!@``````P `````` M`$8``````84````````+`"^ "" &``````# ````````1@`````.A0`````` M``,`,( (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!&%`````````P`R@ @@!@`````` MP ```````$8`````&(4````````>`$& "" &``````# ````````1@`````V MA0```0````$`````````'@!"@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````-X4```$` M```!`````````!X`0X (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#B%```!`````0`` C```````>`#T``0````4```!213H@``````,`#33]-P``4#F% ` end From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 21:33:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16921 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:33:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA13114; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:21:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12905 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:19:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Ca8r-0002V6-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:21:41 -0800 Message-ID: <36C8D5F0.C2C45DAD@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:20:32 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Stiring of Barrell Compost Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 429 Pam DeTray told me that she is stirring the Barrel Compost Prep for 20 minutes (in waster of course) and I was telling her that this is too long. Well, how long, she asked. I replied: 12 minutes or even less. Why? I told her that I had to test it myself. So, I stirred it and at about six minutes I got the very distinct feeling that it was enough but at 20 minutes it was too long. There are many small life forms in there such as tiny worms, enzymes, fungi, bugs, bacteria and others (I was amazed when looking at the mix under the microscope, it is just teaming with life...) and if you stir them in water too long, they get washed out, leached,.... I'd say: dizzy and dead. Well, I do not think we want to make a soup. The stirring is just for mixing the BC thoroughly with water so that it can be sprayed. Remember, when you apply the BC on your land it can be sprinkled on or in the barn, the same, with excellent results. It is binding the smell of cow/pig/horse etc. urine and we also pour it into our sceptic tank. It works there, too. Althoug, you will have to puncture holes into the cake (at the top). So, BC IS THE ANSWER. NATURALLY. WELL, if you are a mellow or lazy stirrer, you may have to do it........... much longer. But, then again, you may drown the whole life in the BC. I really find that a sanguine/choleric short application of stirring (6 minutes) is the best way to get the BC mixed with water - rain water, pure, if you can. Is this o.k. Pam? Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 21:37:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16950 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:37:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA13447; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:24:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA13382 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:24:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.45] (pm3shep1-163-45.intrepid.net [209.190.163.45]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28444 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:26:06 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36C8CE68.D5D35E33@seattle2000.com> References: <36C8CC96.527D3AF7@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:24:52 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Ostriches Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 430 >Well Ferdinand, I looked into Ostriches seriously 7 years ago when one egg >was selling for $500 and a breeding pair was worth $35,000! I am not sure >how or why you are gifted with a pair (pregnant at that) for free! Are >you sure they are not "problem children"? And here I thought this was going to be a thread about the 297 people subscribed to BD Now! who have NOT yet expressed their positions on genetically engineered seed sales!!! -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 21:57:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA17141 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:57:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA15383; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:43:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15142 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:40:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CaSv-0003pN-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:42:26 -0800 Message-ID: <36C8DAC6.AF4F76@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:41:11 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Salmonids References: <19990211134508.15295.qmail@hotmail.com> <36C5CA52.8EAD42F3@RT66.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 431 Many thanks, Tomas. I appreciate this comment. I will be there, at the hatchery, next week although they only feed the fingerlings and have nothing else to do right now. The main job of fertilizing comes in the fall. Regards Ferdinand Thomas Schley wrote: > Michael, > > I noticed your message to Ferdinand and your question regarding salmon > that die after spawning. There is a major difference between Atlantic > salmon (one species only, Salmo salar), and the several species of > Pacific salmon of North America and Asia. All (or virtually all) > Pacific salmon die after swimming upstream to spawn. With Atlantic > salmon some individuals, I forget what percentage, do survive their > first spawning and return to the sea to come back again to their > spawning stream if they survive their second sea voyage. > > Speaking of methods of taking eggs and milt (sperm) from salmonids, I > worked in New Zealand where we netted wild trout to collect and > fertilize eggs. We never cut into the fish. Instead we gently stroked > their bellies to squeeze out the eggs and milt which were then mixed > gently by hand in a bucket of water. Squeezing out the eggs was pretty > easy in ripe fish since they were almost ready to come out on their > own. I cannot imagine anyone in the BC hatcheries acutally having to > cut into a fish! That would be downright stupid, not to say cruel. BTW > we raised the trout only to fingerling size to restock streams where > their wild populations had been depleted by disasters such as flooding, > drought or volcanic eruptions. > > Thank you for allowing me to speak out of my own experience, insight and > opinion. > > Tom From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 15 22:08:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA17574 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:08:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16645; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:54:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16279 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:51:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CadO-0005Xl-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:53:14 -0800 Message-ID: <36C8DD51.BDEF5929@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:52:02 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ostriches References: <36C8CC96.527D3AF7@direct.ca> <36C8CE68.D5D35E33@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 432 Dear Martin, Maratha just stepped forward. I'll let you know what is happening. Otherwise, well, I wouldn't want my dogs to eat Ostrich meat - or, is it better than that? Regards Ferdinand Martin Nyberg wrote: > Well Ferdinand, I looked into Ostriches seriously 7 years ago when one egg > was selling for $500 and a breeding pair was worth $35,000! I am not sure > how or why you are gifted with a pair (pregnant at that) for free! Are > you sure they are not "problem children"? > > Be careful. An ostrich can run as fast as 40 miles per hour and their > legs and claws can kill with one slash. They are dinosaurs with > feathers. They are about as smart as snakes and just as unpredictable. > > You will need at least 7 foot fences. Do you have them in your horse > pasture? I wouldn't put your horses (or any other animal) in the same > pasture. > > If you want to sell the eggs or breed, you will need to build or buy an > incubator. > > DId the owner give you any contacts for expert ostrich care? If not, do a > search right away on the Internet to read all about it..... > > Let us know how this adventure works out! > > Martin Nyberg > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Friends, > > > > Imagine what happened - an old lady drove into our farm, unloading two > > Ostriches (male and female) 'Want them?" - well, yes. So, they run in > > the horse field. They appear to eat grain and grass, however, if any of > > you has some experience with Ostriches, please let me know. That is > > certainly a new field for me. Incidentally, the two are a male and a > > female and are ready to lay eggs in spring. God, will I have to eat > > scrambled eggs. Regards Ferdinand (always something new.. ehh?) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 00:40:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA19275 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:40:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA03693; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:30:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03498 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:28:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Cd4m-0004Up-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:29:40 -0800 Message-ID: <36C901FF.C1795949@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:28:31 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ostriches References: <36C8CC96.527D3AF7@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 433 Dear Martin, I understand that the dear lady's barn burned down and she is in desperate search of a home for them. Ostriches. So, she does not want to kill them and, 'her children' they are, she said, but so far, no problem. We shall see. Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >Well Ferdinand, I looked into Ostriches seriously 7 years ago when one egg > >was selling for $500 and a breeding pair was worth $35,000! I am not sure > >how or why you are gifted with a pair (pregnant at that) for free! Are > >you sure they are not "problem children"? > > And here I thought this was going to be a thread about the 297 people > subscribed to BD Now! who have NOT yet expressed their positions on > genetically engineered seed sales!!! > > -Allan > igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 01:04:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA19432 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:04:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA05203; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:53:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05010 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:50:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CdQu-0007Kl-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:52:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36C9075B.86BD121C@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:51:23 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ostriches References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 434 Sorry to report, the guy with the elephants went next door. No luck! Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >Friends, > > > >Imagine what happened - an old lady drove into our farm, unloading two > >Ostriches (male and female) 'Want them?" - well, yes. So, they run in > >the horse field. They appear to eat grain and grass, however, if any of > >you has some experience with Ostriches, please let me know. That is > >certainly a new field for me. Incidentally, the two are a male and a > >female and are ready to lay eggs in spring. God, will I have to eat > >scrambled eggs. Regards Ferdinand (always something new.. ehh?) > > Man! What's your climate like there? How cold will it get between now and > spring? -Allan igg@igg.com PS Saw the first robin here today!! (And great > flights of honkers returned to the lowland nests at Claymont this week.) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 08:09:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA22943 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA26370; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:59:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA26126 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:57:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Ck5v-00051M-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:59:20 -0800 Message-ID: <36C96B32.541F2949@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:57:22 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: list BDNOW: List Message Rejected - Planting trees! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 435 Dear Phil, Working with trees AND environmental questions is, likely, one of the most demanding and, at the same time, enjoyable subjects one can think of. You are truly working with the next generation, with the future. I am sure you have a lot of experience of how the snow piles (piled) up over the winters; or where the winds do come from; or which trees in the line grow best and where you have winter kill. Also: when were the original trees planted and what may grow better and faster than the old established hedge (windbraeak.There are other questions such as: how do you wish to use the land inbetween the trees (beehives) and so forth. Here is what we do BEFORE we remove trees: We take pictures and also draw an overall map of a certain size into which we put the trees and all observations - in color! (and from as many participants and family members etc.) as possible (related to the above questions). Trees carry the memory of generations and we do not want to loose that either. We consult neighbours and study, if possible, their arrangements. We draw a summer site plan and a winter site plan (each member does his/hers as perfectly as she/he wishes to do it). >From this activity, a new planting plan or arrangement, comes about. It is really beautiful to see how, given a bit of time, the spirits of the 'environment' and the spirits of the trees are starting to speak to us. Whereas technical data is of great importance (what kind of trees, wind direction, snowfall, when, etc. etc. - the spring/summer/fall data is also of great importance, because trees do live during the summer and sleep during the winter) an artistic and feeling approach to the question is AS IMPORTANT or even more so. Our BC forests (to a large extent) are a typical point in case where technicians gallore are running wild in the forests and on computers and yet, the forest is full of problems and is dying off at an alarming rate. Why? Could you be handled as a materialistic unit only? You are blessed having the opportunity to work with trees and, apparently, on a larger scale. Look at companion planting (certain trees like each other) and at following up planting (some trees should not be planted if and when a certain species has been removed). Planting a tree is as important as falling one...! I bet you are looking at a 15 year challenge to reap the benefit of your work. It ain't seeding lettuce or planting strawberries. My small, 1,000' aldergrove (tree line) has taken 6 years to show its effect and we are living in a fast, fast growing area. In about 10 years from now, I will have an impressive line of trees that will prevent the Northern winds to push down the rest of my forest, so God and the spirits of the forest, will. Phil, when it comes down to it, I am a tree person. It is one of the most wonderful work you can think of because here you can openly see nature spirits at work, but you need patience. With my very best regards: Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Hi all: > Hopefully this is not off topic. I'm located in east central Iowa, with > formidable prairie winds. We've got a windbreak that is L-shaped and > oriented to the northwest, designed to fend off the worst of the of the > Canadian winter winds from some of our fields. > > This windbreak is fairly old, originally comprised of Norway blue spruce > planted off-set in three distinct rows. There are now other types of > "scrub" trees flourishing, to include osage orange, mulberries, etc. I've > heard numerous opinions about windbreaks and windbreak design theory. The > original windbreak I believe wasn't properly planted, as the trees "block" > the wind instead of filtering it. The snow (and wind) are diverted up and > over, causing quite an amount of turbulence on the leeward side. The > additional trees now are increasing the wind block effect. We are planning > on planting additional rows of trees to the windward side, designing the > rows to graduate the wind over and graduated the wind downward. > > The question is: does anyone have any thoughts concerning removing the > scrub trees in the original windbreak in order to allow more filtering? Or > would you leave them to propagate even more? > > Thanks for your kind consideration > > Phil > > -------------------- > Phil Forbes > Frontier Natural Products Co-op > Phone: (319) 227-7996 ex 1324 > Fax: (319) 227-7966 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 08:30:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA23232 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:30:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA28156; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:22:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from online.dct.com (online.dct.com [204.29.185.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28053 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:21:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from wmh (gbol261.dct.com [208.18.217.6]) by online.dct.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA04129 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:22:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000101be59b0$4bb19d00$21d912d0@wmh.dct.com> From: "Wm Hurrle" To: Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:03:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 436 -----Original Message----- From: Martin Nyberg To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump >Tony, >Thanks so much for offering to share your sun driven water system. I am a small >farmer on a shallow well with great need to expand water supply, off the grid. I >have seen only one solar water pump and it was not actually available yet. Please >let us know where to find out more. Dear All Into PV Pumps & Y2K Etc. Resiliency, The dean of photovoltaic (pv) water pumping is Windy Dankoff in Santa Fe, NM. Dankoff Solar is on the net: pumps@danksolar.com The technology has been used for many years and is settled into patterns. Windy will email a form that guides selection of the right pump & power combo for your well. He's done this all over the world for about 20 years. For those who want to plug into alternative sources of energy, subscribe to Home Power magazine, $30 / six issues-year. POB 520, Ashland, OR 97520 USA. www.homepower.com. It will connect you. Peace & sunshine, Wm Hurrle From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 09:27:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24007 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:27:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA03187; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:18:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02844 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:15:57 -0500 (EST) From: LMvine@aol.com Received: from LMvine@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DVPAa11080 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:16:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5faceb05.36c97dd1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:16:49 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 437 Hi Allan, enjoy the BD message group. Do you have info on the BD seminars/conferences in the east for 1999. Thanks, Dan Long Mountain Vineyard near Lynchburg VA From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 09:44:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24370 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:44:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA05563; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:35:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05391 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:34:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-004.midcoast.com [208.153.20.104]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA09393 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:36:50 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990216092429.01b3b460@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:24:29 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds In-Reply-To: References: <36C8ABB8.132DD89A@seattle2000.com> <199902151735.MAA00152@envirolink.org> <36C864C2.5488F874@seattle2000.com> <36C88D27.E43D6CBB@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 438 As of February 7th, Jennifer has not returned to Maine. I understand that she is no longer in the hospital and may be returning to the US soon. John St George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA At 08:13 PM 2/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >Just as a point of interest: Jennifer Green was a keynote speaker at our >1997 conference at Claymont Court. At that time, she contracted with me to >set up a www page for her and we arranged with the indefatigable >photojournalist of sustainable ag, Doug Mason, to take some 'water drop' >photos at her Maine lab. Subsequently, Jennifer sent me a HOLD IT! fax, >stating that she had a most wonderful designer involved on the website and >I should wait and see what was to soon come up. That may have been a year >ago. In the meantime, Jennifer has had a car injury and, as I understand >it, is recovering in Switzerland (is she back yet? Anyone know?) One of >these days, I'm going to ask her if we can start the www waterforms project >once again. > >Someone sent me some wonderful pictures and brochures from NZ or OZ, but >these were apparently appropriated before I could put them on the www. (If >you are reading this, please send that beautiful stuff again!!) > >At the Rudolf Steiner College BD workshops, people from the N.California >Permaculture group announced that they were going to bring the technology >of flowforms down to the garden level and put this tool for remediation >into the hands of the people who really need to use it daily. At that >workshop, in fact, there were many from disciplines outside of biodynamics >who felt that there was really nothing to coming up with an functional >remedial flowform design without ripping off Jennifer or John. (check out >the RSC flowforms on the BD Now! website http://www.igg.com/bdnow ) > >I dunno, I dunno, but I thought I'd share this. > >Allan Balliett >BD NOW! >POB 3047 >Shepherdstown, WV >25443 >(304) 876-2373 >(304) 876-9414 FAX > > > >=========================================================================== > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food >that promotes human development. > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > >listproc@envirolink.org > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > >subscribe bdnow > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 09:47:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24412 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:47:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA05972; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:38:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.pioneernet.net (pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05910 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:38:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902161438.JAA05910@envirolink.org> Received: from c43.pioneernet.net by mail.pioneernet.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8) id FA820AY7; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:40:27 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "jan stettler" To: Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:15:10 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 439 Dear Martin, First let me suggest Jade Mountain Inc., 717 Poplar Ave., Boulder, CO. 80304, 303-449-6601, as your material source. We have reliably used a Flowlight Slow Pump for many years. They are sized according to the depth and recharge capacity of your well application. In our case, we have a low production well (3 gallons per minute), but they are designed to operate solar direct in applications up to 3000 gal. per day! There are certain installation problems, since this is not a submersible pump, but should you elect to go with this type, my own experience can mitigate it. There is a new generation of submersible diaphram pumps being sold. All are DC and suitable for all but silty water applications. The flow rates are tied to the available current supplied by the PV array. The most expensive component in the system, is the PV array. Now, there are PV panels costing under $5/ watt! Since the life expectancy of these panels maybe 50 years, this investment must be looked at over the long haul. Because of the low production rate of our well, and the dramatic need for water mid-summer, we acquired a voltage inverter to change the 12v. of auxillary batteries to 24v.. These auxillary batteries are charged during the day and a timer allows us to pump water all night long. With a shallow well, you may be able to use 12v. direct, without having to reconfigure the array for 24v. This would reduce the number of panels you'd need and the gauge of wire required to hook it up. The first step is acquiring Jade Mountain's catalog, and alot of my references will seem less obscure. Tony ---------- > From: Martin Nyberg > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 6:18 PM > > Tony, > Thanks so much for offering to share your sun driven water system. I am a small > farmer on a shallow well with great need to expand water supply, off the grid. I > have seen only one solar water pump and it was not actually available yet. Please > let us know where to find out more. > > Best Regards, > > Martin Nyberg > GreenMan Farm CSA > 8800 SW Dilworth Rd > Vashon WA. 98070 > (206)567-4548 > GreenMan@wolfenet.com > > jan stettler wrote: > > > Re: max handpump lift capacity for Ferdinand > > > > We've been off grid for the last twenty years, Y2K catastrophe means very > > little to us. > > There probably is some limit to pump lift, but Cumberland General Store > > (the Sears for Amish folk), > > fax (615) 456-1211, carries hand pumps capable of lifting almost 400 feet. > > But why? > > I have a 218 foot well, pumped directly from a D.C. pump, powered by six > > PV panels. Whenever the sun shines water is pumped into a storage tank. > > An elevated storage tank can use gravity to distribute the water whereever > > you wish. > > Unless you have sins you need to atone for by hand pumping, feel free to > > contact me about sources and specs for a sun > > driven system. > > Tony > > > > ---------- > > > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > > Subject: Re: Y2K Off, water pump > > > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:51 AM > > > > > > Muchos gratias, many thanks for your info. Linda. REgards Ferdinand > > > > > > Linda Ray wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Ferdy, > > > > > > > > My information says about 30 feet deep is as far as one can > > pull > > > > with a hand pump. I have read also that there is apparently a way to > > rig > > > > up a "sliding sleeve" kind of well bucket which can bring smaller > > > > amounts of water (about a quart IIRC?) up from deeper. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Linda > > > > > > > > ************************************************************* > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for that omission. That's the depth of our well and a bit less > > to the > > > > > surface of our river. And just thinking of it IF you have a handpump, > > the > > > > > limit of pumping it up to the surface may be at 100' ? Does anybody > > know from > > > > > what max depth you can handpump. Best regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 10:14:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA24856 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:14:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA09757; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:05:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09595 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:04:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.127] (pm3shep1-163-47.intrepid.net [209.190.163.47]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21090 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:06:09 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5faceb05.36c97dd1@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:07:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: BD Conferences was Re: Flow Form Moulds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 440 >Hi Allan, enjoy the BD message group. Do you have info on the BD >seminars/conferences in the east for 1999. Thanks, Dan Long Mountain >Vineyard >near Lynchburg VA Dan - We try to keep an up-to-date list of biodynamic conferences at http://www.biodynamics.net I haven't looked at that list this year, but I can tell you that my own Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conference (the Fourth one!) will be held October 1-3, 1999 at Claymont Court (http://www.claymont.org), outside of Charles Town, WV (close to you!). Featured speaker will be gourmet, medicinal, and remedial mushroom expert PAUL STAMETS ("The Mushroom Cultivator's Handbook," "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms"), who will be offering his full 3-day mushroom cultivation intensive (as an elective); Hugh Lovel, foremost biodynamic teacher and author ("A Biodynamic Farm"); Hugh Courtney, master prep maker and director of JPI; Joey Korn, who dowses with the Forces; we are currently working on Dan Moermann, author of Timber Press' "North American Ethnobotany," attending and doing a workshop on both native agriculture and on using his web-mounted native american plant-usage database. (I'm open to suggestions for other speakers.) This is just for starters! At Claymont there are reasonably priced retreat-style rooms and free camping! Meals are included with the conference tuition. Claymont is a full scale 'legendary spiritual conferencing center.' It's a great place to visit! I'll keep you posted as I know more about the conference and will post info about other conferences through the list as it becomes available to me. Thanks for your interest -Allan Balliett Organizer: Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conference csa@claymont.org =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 11:25:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26339 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:25:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA20793; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:14:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.153]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20285 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:11:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.15.161]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:13:04 +0000 Message-ID: <36C99950.2122@cwcom.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:14:08 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: GM foods Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 441 Discussion about GM foods has been intense in the UK this last week, with double-page spreads in the quality Sunday papers and many slots on radio and TV news bulletins. Government spokesmen seem to be concentrating, quite deliberately, on asserting that GM foods are safe to eat but entirely avoiding any of the environmental, economic and other wider considerations. PM Tony Blair asserts that he would willingly eat them (even though they've been banished from House of Commons catering): one wonders when he'll be seen spooning GM soya into a protesting daughter's face (non-Brits might not remember an Agriculture Minister forcing a burger on his daughter, on camera, to assure us that British beef is safe...) No-one has mentioned, either, an item in "New Scientist" (30th January, I'm still behind with my reading). You'll be aware that a gene for antibiotic resistance has been inserted into GM maize as a marker, and fears that it may create antibiotic resistant pathogens in the gut of livestock (much of this corn is used as animal feed) have been dismissed because the modified DNA would be broken down too quickly in their gut. Well, Dutch researchers have shown that the DNA from bacteria genetically engineered to contain antibiotic resistant genes has a half life of 6 minutes in the large intestine. This is long enough to make it available. If the modified bacteria were of a type naturally found in the gut, each has a 1 in 10 million chance of passing the gene to an indigenous gut bacterium (not such long odds as it seems - there are around a thousand billion of such bacteria in a normal gut). If the normal gut inhabitants were weakened because the person/animal was being treated with antibiotics, this transfer rate is increased tenfold. However, if the modified bacteria are not normal to the gut, there is no gene transfer. 10% of the DNA from Flavr Savr tomatoes got as far as the colon undigested but, again, there was no transfer. The work continues. Obviously, this may not be significant - but it makes nonsense of the "There is no evidence... " argument. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 11:41:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26677 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:41:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA24071; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:32:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA23333 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:28:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:28:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902161628.LAA23333@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 11290 invoked from network); 16 Feb 1999 16:30:11 -0000 Received: from i48-08-01.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO DAVE) (216.26.3.193) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 1999 16:30:11 -0000 X-Sender: drobison@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Dave Robison Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 442 This is not a conspiracy of silence! I have also been interested in making flow forms. After Jennifer visited our BD group, I got a better idea of what was involved. Jennifer encourages people to build flow forms and experiment -- the problem is that it takes a lifetime of experience to understand what one is looking for in terms of fine-tuning the flows. It is Jennifer and John Wilkes who have that experience. Thus, one is best advised to utilize designs that they have built and tested. As artists and craftspeople, they deserve our support. As mentioned, Jennifer has supplied forms at workshops. One can contact her to find out what is available. For more information, there is an interesting site at http://www.danwinter.com/water/water.html Not exactly BD, but beautiful pictures of swirling flows and interesting math geometry. I have color pictures of Jennifer's line of products. Allan if you want, I can scan these in and send you files. Interested? ================== Dave Robison Stellar Processes From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 14:06:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00292 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:06:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA20389; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:56:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA19805 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:52:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id NAA28513 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:54:07 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:51:31 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF8D@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'biodynamic'" Subject: ants Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:51:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 443 what do you all know about the presence of little brown ants (sugar ants?) through out the house. i've heard ants can gather on a fault line and i also know that they could merely be the result of a population without a predator. there are three cats in the house who may have eaten whatever eats the ants... i've also seen a lot of lady bugs. and the house is in clay soil backed by pines. i would love to remove them from inside but i want to know what they're doing here before i determine how to remove them. any thoughts? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 14:37:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01132 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:37:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA26398; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:28:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd104.hotmail.com [207.82.252.168]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25808 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:25:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 4902 invoked by uid 0); 16 Feb 1999 19:26:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19990216192621.4901.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:26:21 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: ants Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:26:21 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 444 James, You write: We had quite a few ants when we first moved back to this sandy-clay loam that for the most part was using conventional methods of insect iradication and fertilization. I too was hustled into the chem/ag solution at first. After about a year of rotation between cover/food crop management, I began to notice fewer and fewer ant hills. Now, four years later and one year after BD conversion, I see even fewer hills. However, there people in areas not too far away are having tremendous problems. I have come to the belief that ants hills appear in profuse numbers to inform you about the level of organic matter level of your soil. Example: this past fall I did not harrow the entire acreage, so I left small strips near the terrace lines with plant matter still visible. In those strips, which will be plowed soon, have appeared a few small ant hills. Those ants are comming up, to drag the organic matter down. They are doing a service for us and are part of the dynamic soil life. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 14:52:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01617 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:52:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28784; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:43:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28381 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:41:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id OAA32589 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:42:52 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:40:33 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF8F@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: ants Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:40:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 445 michael and others, i'm glad for this feedback and glad to know if ants are beneficial to the soil. but then do you think they're all coming inside just because they're overflowing from the outside world or because there's something wrong with things outside (or in) bringing them into the house? olivia > ---------- > From: Michael Smith > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 2:26 PM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: ants > > James, > > You write: > > ants?) through out the house. i've heard ants can gather on a fault line > and i also know that they could merely be the result of a population > without a predator. there are three cats in the house who may have eaten > whatever eatsthe ants... i've also seen a lot of lady bugs. and the > house is in clay soil backed by pines. i would love to remove them from > inside but i want to know what they're doing here before i determine how > to remove them. any thoughts?> > > We had quite a few ants when we first moved back to this sandy-clay loam > that for the most part was using conventional methods of insect > iradication and fertilization. I too was hustled into the chem/ag > solution at first. > > After about a year of rotation between cover/food crop management, I > began to notice fewer and fewer ant hills. Now, four years later and > one year after BD conversion, I see even fewer hills. However, there > people in areas not too far away are having tremendous problems. > > I have come to the belief that ants hills appear in profuse numbers to > inform you about the level of organic matter level of your soil. > > Example: this past fall I did not harrow the entire acreage, so I left > small strips near the terrace lines with plant matter still visible. In > those strips, which will be plowed soon, have appeared a few small ant > hills. Those ants are comming up, to drag the organic matter down. > They are doing a service for us and are part of the dynamic soil life. > > Sincerely, > Michael. > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 14:52:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01625 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:52:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28908; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:43:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd96.hotmail.com [207.82.252.160]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28435 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:41:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 19945 invoked by uid 0); 16 Feb 1999 19:42:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19990216194244.19944.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:42:44 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Water Springs Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:42:44 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 446 Hello Bd'ers, I have a question. I am looking for sources of info on springs of water. I have seen a few references on springs but have never seen any exhaustive work done as a whole. Is this perhaps something I have overlooked in a materialistic characterization, or is there more out there? What recapitulated me to this subject was yesterday. It was Sunday afternoon; time to feed the fish and my daughter wanted to go to her cousins house. Oh, well...a nature show was on that featured the J. Coustou team. They were researching a extremely large and growing body of fresh water in the Siberian located on a fault line. This lake is supposed to be the largest fresh water lake in the world. It is also one of the oldest. The texture of the water reminded me so much of the water flowing from the springs where I raise trout, which is also located on a fault line. If anyone saw this program or knows where I might locate info on forms of water issuing from fault lines I would shurely be thank-ful if they would let me know. Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 15:11:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02011 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:11:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA02231; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:01:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01446 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:58:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id OAA01331 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:59:41 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:57:22 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CF90@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Water Springs Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:57:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 447 michael, there's an article in the current issue of Alternative Medicine (perhaps February?) about how a fault line beneath one's house can affect the people inside negatively. it mentions a 7-year-old boy that had insomnia until it was discovered that three underground springs intersected beneath his bedroom and a copper pipe was inserted down into the springs to somehow shield the negative effects at that particular point. just this weekend i heard a dowser speaking about the negative effects of these fault lines for humans (cancer for instance). but he said, and the article mentions too, that cats like to lie over them... so i guess they're good for trout too? olivia > ---------- > From: Michael Smith > Reply To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 2:42 PM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Water Springs > > Hello Bd'ers, > > I have a question. I am looking for sources of info on springs of > water. I have seen a few references on springs but have never seen any > exhaustive work done as a whole. Is this perhaps something I have > overlooked in a materialistic characterization, or is there more out > there? > > What recapitulated me to this subject was yesterday. It was Sunday > afternoon; time to feed the fish and my daughter wanted to go to her > cousins house. Oh, well...a nature show was on that featured the J. > Coustou team. They were researching a extremely large and growing body > of fresh water in the Siberian located on a fault line. This lake is > supposed to be the largest fresh water lake in the world. It is also > one of the oldest. The texture of the water reminded me so much of the > water flowing from the springs where I raise trout, which is also > located on a fault line. > > If anyone saw this program or knows where I might locate info on forms > of water issuing from fault lines I would shurely be thank-ful if they > would let me know. > > Sincerely, > Michael. > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 15:47:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02595 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:47:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA08993; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08658 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:35:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem175.digisys.net [205.138.110.44]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA17481 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:36:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36C9D863.699B8178@digisys.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:43:15 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ostriches References: <36C8CC96.527D3AF7@direct.ca> <36C8CE68.D5D35E33@seattle2000.com> <36C8DD51.BDEF5929@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 448 Dear Ferdinand, An acquaintance of mine here in Montana has raised ostriches for a few years. They are housed in a 'stick' constructed building with approximately three foot cement foundation walls, tin (I think) actual walls, and cement floor. Their outdoor area is quite large, 30% cement the balance ground. The fencing around the ostrich outdoor area is seven foot cyclone fencing. The posts are metal set in cement. I don't know anything about keeping ostriches, yet I'm not sure any animal would enjoy this type of housing. Doesn't sound real homey does it! At any rate they began trying to sell off their ostrich family last year. Apparently for my acquaintance and her husband, the ostrich were a bit too testy for them. Regards, Pat Hironimus Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Dear Martin, > Maratha just stepped forward. I'll let you know what is happening. Otherwise, > well, I wouldn't want my dogs to eat Ostrich meat - or, is it better than > that? Regards Ferdinand > > Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > Well Ferdinand, I looked into Ostriches seriously 7 years ago when one egg > > was selling for $500 and a breeding pair was worth $35,000! I am not sure > > how or why you are gifted with a pair (pregnant at that) for free! Are > > you sure they are not "problem children"? > > > > Be careful. An ostrich can run as fast as 40 miles per hour and their > > legs and claws can kill with one slash. They are dinosaurs with > > feathers. They are about as smart as snakes and just as unpredictable. > > > > You will need at least 7 foot fences. Do you have them in your horse > > pasture? I wouldn't put your horses (or any other animal) in the same > > pasture. > > > > If you want to sell the eggs or breed, you will need to build or buy an > > incubator. > > > > DId the owner give you any contacts for expert ostrich care? If not, do a > > search right away on the Internet to read all about it..... > > > > Let us know how this adventure works out! > > > > Martin Nyberg > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > Friends, > > > > > > Imagine what happened - an old lady drove into our farm, unloading two > > > Ostriches (male and female) 'Want them?" - well, yes. So, they run in > > > the horse field. They appear to eat grain and grass, however, if any of > > > you has some experience with Ostriches, please let me know. That is > > > certainly a new field for me. Incidentally, the two are a male and a > > > female and are ready to lay eggs in spring. God, will I have to eat > > > scrambled eggs. Regards Ferdinand (always something new.. ehh?) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 16:05:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02961 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:05:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12387; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:55:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd119.hotmail.com [207.82.252.183]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12143 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:54:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 29430 invoked by uid 0); 16 Feb 1999 20:55:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19990216205552.29429.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:55:52 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: RE: ants Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:55:52 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 449 James, First of all, thanks for correcting my reading and restating the problem. In the past, we too have had problems with a large black variety of ant comming into the house. We too have sandy/clay(red) backed by pines. Now the one thing you didn't say is what type of bedrock you are on top of, that is if you know. In our area it is Granite. I just read an article on how it is that when granite decomposes, in the case of metamorpheses, it generates small electrical pulses through the soil. The next thing to look at would be the gound water level through a well stream or pond. The question to answer here: "Is it rising". If so you may be in store for a ground tremor. It is quite possible that electrical pulses of the type generated by granite could force them out of their soil environment. This may not help much, since I am no authority on ants, but I would look for groups of indicators that may point you toward a common cause. You write:> <> > We had quite a few ants when we first moved back to this sandy-clay >loam that for the most part was using conventional methods of insect > iradication and fertilization. I too was hustled into the chem/ag > solution at first. > > After about a year of rotation between cover/food crop management, >I began to notice fewer and fewer ant hills. Now, four years later >and one year after BD conversion, I see even fewer hills. However, >there people in areas not too far away are having tremendous >problems. > > I have come to the belief that ants hills appear in profuse numbers >to inform you about the level of organic matter level of your soil. > > Example: this past fall I did not harrow the entire acreage, so I >left small strips near the terrace lines with plant matter still >visible. In those strips, which will be plowed soon, have appeared >a few small ant hills. Those ants are comming up, to drag the >organic matter down. They are doing a service for us and are part >of the dynamic soil life.> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 16:19:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03306 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:19:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA15172; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:08:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd114.hotmail.com [207.82.252.178]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA14619 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:05:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 1341 invoked by uid 0); 16 Feb 1999 21:06:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19990216210652.1340.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:06:52 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: RE: Water Springs Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:06:52 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 450 James, Thanks. Fo the last few years it seems my insomnia has been growing. I just ordered a Dowsing Kit from Joey Korn. Mabey I can do something similiar to mediate this. As far as the fault line goes. There is no doubt about it now. We have always said, we have silver water in the creek. That silver water is loaded with silica. The fault line is no doubt in a period of heightened metamorphises. Michael. >> Hello Bd'ers,> > I have a question. I am looking for sources of info on springs of > water. I have seen a few references on springs but have never seen >any exhaustive work done as a whole. Is this perhaps something I >have overlooked in a materialistic characterization, or is there >more out there? > >> What recapitulated me to this subject was yesterday. It was >Sunday afternoon; time to feed the fish and my daughter wanted to go >to her cousins house. Oh, well...a nature show was on that featured >the J. Coustou team. They were researching a extremely large and >growing body of fresh water in the Siberian located on a fault line. > >This lake is supposed to be the largest fresh water lake in the >world. It is also one of the oldest. The texture of the water >reminded me so much of the water flowing from the springs where I >raise trout, which is also located on a fault line. > > If anyone saw this program or knows where I might locate info on >forms of water issuing from fault lines I would shurely be thank->ful if they would let me know.> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 16:22:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03365 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:22:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA16143; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:13:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15526 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:10:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp226.cy-net.net [208.21.195.35]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09567 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:26:39 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE59B2.D8975640@FLYLO>; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:47:08 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE59B2.D8975640@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: ants Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:47:07 -0600 Encoding: 22 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 451 We have Fire Ants here and I've learned to adapt to them. Some plants can't stand up to them (some of the heirloom eggplants are food for aphids which the ants use as dairy animals.) At this time of year, ants could be coming in for a water source or protein source. In the wilds and in pasture stock, wet newborns are especially easy prey for ants on the hunt. Each type has definite tastes and dislikes, but generally, they won't go after granulated sugar or products made with them. They don't really like chocolate but will drill through plastic to get at catsup. They'll also drill through the shells of nuts, so you may have a squirrel 'stash' that the ants have located. They can feel chicks pipping out in the shell and drill into the shells a day or so before the baby chicks are due to hatch out. (and never bother the hen sitting on top of them.) I keep telling myself that I'm not quite ready to declare ants as a beneficial, but we sure don't have the problems a lot of area farmers have to deal with (Japanese beetles, armyworms, ticks, scorpions, etc.) And all used to be a real menace pre-Fire Ant days. one thing that may work in your favor is if you have super sugar sand. Ants can't tunnel and won't try to build in really sandy areas. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 18:15:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06268 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:15:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA05652; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:05:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05262 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:02:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from MSN/jdelly1 - 208.250.161.139 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:59:13 -0800 Message-ID: <004e01be59ff$195e5e20$8ba1fad0@MSN/jdelly1> From: "John Delly" To: Subject: Re: BD Farms in North-West Arkansas USA Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:52:35 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 452 Brian Campbell will be hosting a Biodynamic/intensive growing workshop at the Kickapoo Branch of the Springfield Library on Saturday February 20th. from 9:30 to 11:00 Call 888-6534 for info. Brian is the only local that I know of. He is a member of our organic association. Springfield is just north of the Arkansas line. (40 miles) -----Original Message----- From: John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 10:15 AM Subject: BD Farms in North-West Arkansas USA :Dear Listers : :A friend of mine is looking at buying a small organic farm in north-west :Arkansas. She wanted to know if there were any BD farms in that part of :Arkansas. Please let me know about BD folk in that area. : :John : :St. George Farm :Freedom, Maine, USA : From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 19:03:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA07667 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:03:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA13248; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:53:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12692 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:49:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp226.cy-net.net [208.21.195.35]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA32243 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:06:06 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE59C8.9AECE420@FLYLO>; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:22:54 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE59C8.9AECE420@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: book query Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:22:53 -0600 Encoding: 6 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 453 Has anyone on list read Islandia? (Austin Tappan Wright) Written in 1920's about a make-believe island and the ways of a pre-industrial civilization in a modern world. I think it was the tree issue that struck a chord and made me realize the similarity of today's real world and that work of fiction. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 19:50:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA08823 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:50:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA20294; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:41:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from teapot16.domain4.bigpond.com (teapot16.domain4.bigpond.com [139.134.5.164]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA19966 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:38:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot16.domain4.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ba555101 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:33:49 +1000 Received: from CEIP-T-003-p-163-158.tmns.net.au ([139.134.163.158]) by mail4.bigpond.com (Claudes-Phyric-MailRouter V2.2b 7/69265); 17 Feb 1999 10:33:49 From: "Maritza de Oliveira and Angela Medeiros" To: Subject: Flow Form Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:16:59 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <00334936867574@domain4.bigpond.com> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 454 Dear people Could anyone give me contact details for flowforms in the U.S.A. and Europe ? Thanks, Angela Medeiros From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 21:06:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA10729 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:06:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA01280; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00714 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:52:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CwBM-0003Xc-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:53:45 -0800 Message-ID: <36CA20DD.F59EDF95@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:52:29 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ostriches References: <36C8CC96.527D3AF7@direct.ca> <36C8CE68.D5D35E33@seattle2000.com> <36C8DD51.BDEF5929@direct.ca> <36C9D863.699B8178@digisys.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 455 Many thanks for your post. We shall see how we fare. Our fences are about 6' high and the koyotees are outside. So far, no problem (at least with calves). Our birds have a small forest in which they can content themselves (in the summer) and an area in which they will be penned in (to begin with and first until they feel at home). The soil is bare sand (like their homeland) and water as difficult to get as in an African desert....... (in the summer, of course). Well, we shall find out how we are going to live together, here. Otherwise, come for an expensive Turkey Tofu Festival _ I just read that the hen is worth about $5,000.-- and the (do you call it rooster or what) about half the price. So, the little gray lady really made a donation. Incidentally, we shall see whether our Society may take them on so that she can get a donation receipt, seeing that she is not well off. Regards Ferdinand P. Hironimus wrote: > Dear Ferdinand, > > An acquaintance of mine here in Montana has raised ostriches for a few years. > They are housed in a 'stick' constructed building with approximately three foot > cement foundation walls, tin (I think) actual walls, and cement floor. Their > outdoor area is quite large, 30% cement the balance ground. The fencing around > the ostrich outdoor area is seven foot cyclone fencing. The posts are metal set > in cement. I don't know anything about keeping ostriches, yet I'm not sure any > animal would enjoy this type of housing. Doesn't sound real homey does it! > > At any rate they began trying to sell off their ostrich family last year. > Apparently for my acquaintance and her husband, the ostrich were a bit too testy > for them. > > Regards, > > Pat Hironimus > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Dear Martin, > > Maratha just stepped forward. I'll let you know what is happening. Otherwise, > > well, I wouldn't want my dogs to eat Ostrich meat - or, is it better than > > that? Regards Ferdinand > > > > Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > > > Well Ferdinand, I looked into Ostriches seriously 7 years ago when one egg > > > was selling for $500 and a breeding pair was worth $35,000! I am not sure > > > how or why you are gifted with a pair (pregnant at that) for free! Are > > > you sure they are not "problem children"? > > > > > > Be careful. An ostrich can run as fast as 40 miles per hour and their > > > legs and claws can kill with one slash. They are dinosaurs with > > > feathers. They are about as smart as snakes and just as unpredictable. > > > > > > You will need at least 7 foot fences. Do you have them in your horse > > > pasture? I wouldn't put your horses (or any other animal) in the same > > > pasture. > > > > > > If you want to sell the eggs or breed, you will need to build or buy an > > > incubator. > > > > > > DId the owner give you any contacts for expert ostrich care? If not, do a > > > search right away on the Internet to read all about it..... > > > > > > Let us know how this adventure works out! > > > > > > Martin Nyberg > > > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > > > Friends, > > > > > > > > Imagine what happened - an old lady drove into our farm, unloading two > > > > Ostriches (male and female) 'Want them?" - well, yes. So, they run in > > > > the horse field. They appear to eat grain and grass, however, if any of > > > > you has some experience with Ostriches, please let me know. That is > > > > certainly a new field for me. Incidentally, the two are a male and a > > > > female and are ready to lay eggs in spring. God, will I have to eat > > > > scrambled eggs. Regards Ferdinand (always something new.. ehh?) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 21:16:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA10825 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:16:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA02859; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:07:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02559 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:05:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CwNy-0007K0-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:06:46 -0800 Message-ID: <36CA23EB.A42EFA3A@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:05:31 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: ants & a KINGDOM References: <19990216192621.4901.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 456 God bless the ants of the world. They are the habitat preparers for the elemental world that lives inside and far above the soil - - they reach high above into the world of the sylphs and salamanders. They are farmers, builders, merchants, traders - they are gardeners, innkeepers, fighters, traders. As a matter of fact, they do about anything I can think of. Where ants are in serious undersupply, problems of stagnation, hardening or dyeing are creeping in. I envy anybody with an ant problem - as these can be solved over a bit of time. Speak to them. Address yourself to the Queen. I am not kidding, but (like a horse or a cow) an anthill (or an antdom = kingdom) is responding the same way. There are dozens of fairy tales in which ants, finally, made the difference and saved the KINGDOM. Regards Ferdinand Michael Smith wrote: > James, > > You write: > > ants?) through out the house. i've heard ants can gather on a fault line > and i also know that they could merely be the result of a population > without a predator. there are three cats in the house who may have eaten > whatever eatsthe ants... i've also seen a lot of lady bugs. and the > house is in clay soil backed by pines. i would love to remove them from > inside but i want to know what they're doing here before i determine how > to remove them. any thoughts?> > > We had quite a few ants when we first moved back to this sandy-clay loam > that for the most part was using conventional methods of insect > iradication and fertilization. I too was hustled into the chem/ag > solution at first. > > After about a year of rotation between cover/food crop management, I > began to notice fewer and fewer ant hills. Now, four years later and > one year after BD conversion, I see even fewer hills. However, there > people in areas not too far away are having tremendous problems. > > I have come to the belief that ants hills appear in profuse numbers to > inform you about the level of organic matter level of your soil. > > Example: this past fall I did not harrow the entire acreage, so I left > small strips near the terrace lines with plant matter still visible. In > those strips, which will be plowed soon, have appeared a few small ant > hills. Those ants are comming up, to drag the organic matter down. > They are doing a service for us and are part of the dynamic soil life. > > Sincerely, > Michael. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 21:25:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA10912 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:25:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03890; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:15:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03795 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:15:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp282.cy-net.net [208.21.195.91]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA21005 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:31:33 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE59DC.826B4D60@FLYLO>; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:45:22 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE59DC.826B4D60@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Ostriches Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:45:21 -0600 Encoding: 13 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 457 One more thought I just recalled. Emus (and I suppose ostriches) are fence walkers. You can have 1,000 acres and they'll be right along the fencelines. If they're living with other large stock, they may give up this annoying habit but all those I've seen were constantly on the move, pacing fences. someone turned 2 emus loose last summer. It was July and 110* here on a regular basis. We caught them so we could water them and find their home. No one claimed them. We kept them long enough to conclude that these are the dumbest creatures we've ever been exposed to. One was having a huge panic attack and when I went to see why it was beating against the fence, all I could find was a ferocious butterfly nearby. (Turkeys are geniuses compared to these guys!) martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 23:10:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA12137 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:10:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA18224; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:00:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18113 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:59:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp43.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.143]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA03214 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:59:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000201be5a29$cd303480$8f4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Re: ants & a KINGDOM Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:53:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 458 Dear Ferdy, When I lived in Illinois, on an 80' x 120' lot, the vacant (for at time) lot next door had a big ant hill. We all watched it grow, and the ants didn't bother us. One day, after using my new fruit/veggie juicer, I decided that the enormous amount of carrot rind left after juicing would make a perfect carrot cake. I ad-libbed far beyond what any reasonable baker would, and the result was an extremely heavy (read nearly inedible) carrot "cake". Since no one would/could eat it (not even the dog), we decided that perhaps the ants could make use of it. We put it on top of the anthill, and they went NUTS!!! Each day we'd come back & see more of the cake gone, but the hill rising, growing, getting stronger (could practically SEE it breathing!) We made jokes about how the ants were probably becoming a cult of carrot cake worshippers, telling their young about how a great gift had been plopped on their home from the sky, from the great provider! :-) Can you tell my favorite Christmas present as a child was an ant farm? Julie >God bless the ants of the world. They are the habitat preparers for the >elemental world that lives inside and far above the soil - - they reach >high above into the world of the sylphs and salamanders. They are farmers, >builders, merchants, traders - they are gardeners, innkeepers, fighters, >traders. As a matter of fact, they do about anything I can think of. Where >ants are in serious undersupply, problems of stagnation, hardening or dyeing >are creeping in. I envy anybody with an ant problem - as these can be solved >over a bit of time. Speak to them. Address yourself to the Queen. I am not >kidding, but (like a horse or a cow) an anthill (or an antdom = kingdom) is >responding the same way. There are dozens of fairy tales in which ants, >finally, made the difference and saved the KINGDOM. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 23:18:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA12247 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:18:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA19116; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18893 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:07:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CyI9-0003Mb-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:08:53 -0800 Message-ID: <36CA408B.60A7AF01@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:07:40 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ostriches References: <01BE59DC.826B4D60@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 459 Oh, well, Martha, finally someone I can feel superior to. Reminds me of the guy who was somewhat drunk and walking round and round this round advertising billboard mumbling: God gracious, walled in alive. Regards Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > One more thought I just recalled. Emus (and I suppose ostriches) are fence > walkers. You can have 1,000 acres and they'll be right along the > fencelines. If they're living with other large stock, they may give up this > annoying habit but all those I've seen were constantly on the move, pacing > fences. someone turned 2 emus loose last summer. It was July and 110* here > on a regular basis. We caught them so we could water them and find their > home. No one claimed them. We kept them long enough to conclude that these > are the dumbest creatures we've ever been exposed to. One was having a huge > panic attack and when I went to see why it was beating against the fence, > all I could find was a ferocious butterfly nearby. (Turkeys are geniuses > compared to these guys!) > martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 16 23:22:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA12284 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:22:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA19457; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:12:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19175 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:09:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.156] (pm3shep2-163-77.intrepid.net [209.190.163.77]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14230 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:10:58 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:11:59 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Mounties Entrap Their Man Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id XAA19176 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 460 ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:47:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA22560; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:38:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22295 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:36:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10CykG-0005P1-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:37:56 -0800 Message-ID: <36CA475B.3C1FF002@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:36:43 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: ants & a KINGDOM References: <000201be5a29$cd303480$8f4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 461 Julie, This is the most marvelous story I have ever heard, it is so good and so full of humor and truth and everything, God, I was rolling on the floor laughing and thinking of God, how he/she sometimes is making a mess in the kitchen sending down some goodies onto us and we, feeling blessed, wallop in it till Kingdom Kome.... Oh, is it ever good and glorious this life. Ever! And, my little poem, or the little list I wrote there, in my ant contribution should have read as follows: Ants: They are farmers, builders, merchants, traders also gardeners, innkeepers, fighters, raiders. They are looters, cleaners, walkers, runners, some are breeders, pissers and real gunners! You can extend this verse till you fall over because, really, they are a miracle. An Antdom (like a Beehive & Termites for that matter), are beings of such wisdom that mankind would do itself a great favor by studying them thoroughly AND learn. Many thanks, Julie; and keep on telling us such marvellous stories. Regards Ferdinand Julie M. wrote: > Dear Ferdy, > > When I lived in Illinois, on an 80' x 120' lot, the vacant (for at time) lot > next door had a big ant hill. We all watched it grow, and the ants didn't > bother us. One day, after using my new fruit/veggie juicer, I decided that > the enormous amount of carrot rind left after juicing would make a perfect > carrot cake. I ad-libbed far beyond what any reasonable baker would, and the > result was an extremely heavy (read nearly inedible) carrot "cake". > > Since no one would/could eat it (not even the dog), we decided that perhaps > the ants could make use of it. We put it on top of the anthill, and they > went NUTS!!! Each day we'd come back & see more of the cake gone, but the > hill rising, growing, getting stronger (could practically SEE it breathing!) > We made jokes about how the ants were probably becoming a cult of carrot > cake worshippers, telling their young about how a great gift had been > plopped on their home from the sky, from the great provider! :-) > > Can you tell my favorite Christmas present as a child was an ant farm? > > Julie > > >God bless the ants of the world. They are the habitat preparers for the > >elemental world that lives inside and far above the soil - - they reach > >high above into the world of the sylphs and salamanders. They are farmers, > >builders, merchants, traders - they are gardeners, innkeepers, fighters, > >traders. As a matter of fact, they do about anything I can think of. Where > >ants are in serious undersupply, problems of stagnation, hardening or > dyeing > >are creeping in. I envy anybody with an ant problem - as these can be > solved > >over a bit of time. Speak to them. Address yourself to the Queen. I am not > >kidding, but (like a horse or a cow) an anthill (or an antdom = kingdom) is > >responding the same way. There are dozens of fairy tales in which ants, > >finally, made the difference and saved the KINGDOM. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 00:05:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA13012 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:05:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA24872; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:56:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24566 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Cz1p-0006RB-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:56:05 -0800 Message-ID: <36CA4B9B.DB4C45C8@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:54:51 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Mounties Entrap Their Man References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 462 Friends, Si non e vero, e ben trovato! If it is not true, it is well invented, however, collusion, materialistic thinking and the like do lead the RCMP or any investigative body (FBI, Deutsche Polizei, Oesterreichische Grenzer etc. etc.) to act similarly. I could imagine that this is a true story and although I thought that such a thing could never happen in our country, let me tell you that (as I am writing this post) BCRAIL has, secretly obtained a permit to spray our valley (their tracks, as they call it) with Roundup and similar stuff. If my neighbour and I are going to protest (and some of the people up-tracks (up streams) have threatened to tye themselves to the RRtyes) we will get jailed EVEN THOUGH (EVEN THOUGH) the spraying is happening within (for my neighbour) inches (not feet or meters) within inches of the aquifer that feeds his well. Are we better up here than U in the US? Only fewer, with more land to soil, more air to kaputt, more water to ruin - . We are 27 million with a country of the size of ....bigger than yours anyhow! So, per capita, we are doing very well when it comes to polluting. I am not as proud as you think. But, then again, we blame it all on the US to whom we belong anyhow. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > bunch of the dirty tricksters that lost their jobs when Geoge Bush left > office in the US? Looks like a sad day for Ecotopia, in any regard. -AB :-) > > Mounties Entrap Their Man > Canadian Force Accused of Fighting Crime With Crime > By Steven Pearlstein > Washington Post Foreign Service > Monday, February 15, 1999; > from www.washingtonpost.com > > EDMONTON, Alberta-When a bomb exploded last October at a gas well just > west of the tiny Alberta town of Beaverlodge, few doubted that it was > simply the latest attack by a small band of "eco-terrorists" who had been > waging a guerrilla war against the oil and gas industry. > > Alberta Premier Ralph Klein vowed to punish the saboteurs to the "fullest > extent of the law," while the target of the blast, Alberta Energy Co. Ltd., > announced it was doubling the $50,000 reward it had previously offered for > help nabbing the perpetrators. > > Ranchers and oil field workers flocked to a series of community meetings to > hear from an antiterrorism expert flown in from Toronto. There was talk > that people might have to take matters into their own hands if police > didn't do something to stop the man widely believed to be the ringleader of > the eco-insurrection, a 56-year-old organic farmer and Calvinist preacher > named Wiebo Ludwig. > > But at a bail hearing for Ludwig two weeks ago, prosecutors acknowledged > that it was not Ludwig who had detonated the bomb at Beaverlodge, but the > Royal Canadian Mounted Police working secretly with Alberta Energy. > According to RCMP documents, it was all part of a ruse designed to > insinuate a police informant into Ludwig's band -- a neighbor whose > testimony and tape-recorded conversations eventually led to Ludwig's arrest > in January on nine counts of conspiracy to destroy property and violate > explosives laws. > > Since the revelation, Canadian newspapers have lined up to editorialize > against the unusual police tactics. Cartoonists had a field day at the > expense of the Mounties' bomb squad. Opposition politicians here and in > Ottawa demanded investigations. And most legal experts have agreed with > Edmonton lawyer Gwilym Davies, a former law professor, that the Mounties > had "gone over the line" in fighting crime with crime. > > "This isn't Waco, Texas," said Ludwig's lawyer, Richard Secord. "It's > Canada! We don't do things like that up here." > > For the Mounties, this was the latest in a string of controversies that > have damaged their Dudley Do-Right reputation. For more than a year, a > special panel has been trying to determine whether the Mounties trampled > the rights of student protesters at a summit of Pacific Rim leaders on > orders from Prime Minister Jean Chretien. Here in Edmonton, a judge > recently threw out murder charges against a man whom the Mounties had tried > to entrap into a confession by staging a fake killing in front of him and > sending him to Toronto to pick up an illegal million-dollar payoff. Late > last month, an investigation opened in Calgary into the shooting of an > aboriginal woman and her 9-year-old son by a Mountie who was called to > their house to quell a domestic disturbance. > > But in the town of Hythe, where Ludwig lives and where concerns about civil > liberties take a back seat to concerns about safety, residents have lined > up solidly behind the Mounties. > > "If you blow up a sour gas line, you will kill a lot of people," said Hythe > Mayor Frank Webb, referring to the strain of gas found here that can be > fatal if inhaled even in small doses. "That's not eco-terrorism -- that's > just plain terrorism. We had to do something to put a stop to it." > > Ever since a gas leak forced evacuation of his 320-acre Trickle Creek > "community" in 1991, Ludwig has blamed the industry for the death of 60 of > his livestock and a succession of human health problems. At first, his > protests were confined to administrative appeals filed with government > regulators who routinely proclaimed, along with industry officials, that > there was no scientific evidence linking oil-patch activities to problems > with animal or But beginning in 1996, Ludwig began issuing warnings of > possible violence if the industry did not change its ways. > > Small acts of sabotage against the industry began that same year. The > regional RCMP commander messaged superiors that a serious situation was > developing. More than a year later, bullets were fired through the > manager's office at the Alberta Energy Co. plant in Hythe. > > Eventually, the RCMP would assign as many as 100 investigators to the case. > At the same time, oil and gas companies began hiring bodyguards for their > top executives and security details to patrol their plants and well sites. > > But by the time of the Beaverlodge bombing, police had logged nearly 160 > incidents, including three gas-line bombings and the encasement of three > wellheads in concrete. In media interviews, Ludwig refused to say if he was > responsible but freely acknowledged that he knew and sympathized with the > people who were. > > In July, 1998, Alberta Energy offered to pay Ludwig $525,000 for his land > -- 50 percent above market value -- a deal he was prepared to accept until > he read the fine print, which required him never to come back to within 500 > miles of Trickle Creek and never to talk publicly about the buyout or his > environmental concerns for the property. Infuriated, he rejected the offer > and vowed to stay and fight. > > In the following months, three bombs went off at oil and gas wells, all > within several hundred miles of Hythe. Within hours of the third, Ludwig, > his son Bo and and an associate named Richard Boonstra were arrested at a > police roadblock and charged in connection with the bombing. The next day, > dozens of RCMP officers descended on Trickle Creek with search warrants, > but they never were able to gather enough evidence to tie the trio directly > to the bombing, and the charges were dropped. > > It was then, in early October 1998, according to court documents, that > Robert Wraight, a neighbor of Ludwig's, contacted Alberta Energy with an > offer to provide information regarding Ludwig's "criminal involvement." A > onetime Ludwig sympathizer, he now claimed to be motivated by concern for > his family's safety and the prospect of selling his property to the utility > for $70,000. > > Wraight's offer was passed to the RCMP, which took it up, assigned him the > code name "K4020" and began to coach the new agent on how to infiltrate > Ludwig's band. But according to an RCMP memo, Ludwig was suspicious of his > offer and indicated that Wraight needed to prove his commitment to the > cause. It was in that context that the RCMP came up with the scheme to blow > up an abandoned wellhead shed near Beaverlodge, for which Wraight was able > to take credit in conversations with Ludwig. > > RCMP spokesmen said last week that their reliance on the unusual > investigative technique reflected the urgency they felt to put Ludwig > behind bars. Phone taps, round-the-clock ground and airborne surveillance > and a complete search of Trickle Creek had failed to turn up the necessary > evidence. Meanwhile, in press interviews and anonymous notes, Ludwig was > warning that the next targets of an anti-utility campaign would be industry > executives in Calgary or the Mounties themselves. > > "Sometimes I think we should take the president of Alberta Energy Co. > hostage, tie him up and make him watch the video of Abel Ryan," Ludwig told > Outside magazine, referring to a tape he had made showing the stillborn > grandson his daughter had delivered that summer. "And then slit his throat." > > It never came to that. Last month, Ludwig and Boonstra were arrested on > charges that appear to be based almost exclusively on taped conversations > with Wraight and information he provided. Wraight is believed to be living > in British Columbia under the Mounties' witness-protection program. Ludwig > and Boonstra are being held without bail, pending a preliminary hearing in > May. > > © Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 02:09:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA14524 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:09:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA03898; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:00:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from sand.global.net.uk (sand.global.net.uk [194.126.82.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA03643 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:58:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from p77s12a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.220.120] helo=cooksd.globalnet.co.uk) by sand.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10D0yA-0001My-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:00:27 +0000 Message-ID: <36CA6525.44E2@globalnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:43:49 +0000 From: "Cook's Delight" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Biofach 1999 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 463 Anyone out there going to Nurnberg this year 19/1 till 21/1 I will be there on Friday and stay till Sunday so if you make yourself known we could meet up maybe. Rex Tyler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 07:31:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA17544 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:31:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA19196; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:23:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from neptune.wyenet.net (neptune.wyenet.net [195.188.115.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA19107 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:21:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902171221.HAA19107@envirolink.org> Received: from [193.164.96.68] by neptune.wyenet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 527-57157U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:22:23 +0000 Subject: Subscribe Date: Wed, 17 Feb 99 12:24:17 +0000 x-sender: mmoodie@wallace.wyenet.co.uk x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Mark Moodie To: "BD list Postings" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 464 SUBSCRIBE BDNOW mark.es@aecb.net Mark Moodie mark.es@aecb.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 08:18:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA17928 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:18:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA21766; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:09:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA21551 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:07:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA08292 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:23:33 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5A36.6CDFE960@FLYLO>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:29:01 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5A36.6CDFE960@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: ants & a KINGDOM Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:28:52 -0600 Encoding: 18 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 465 When I was really small, I 'stole' my Daddy's book on Insects illustrated. It was a whimsical look at the bug kingdom in general. Ants played a huge role in the chapters, as did Preying Mantis', and Dung Beetles. Whatever happened to dung beetles anyhow? I recall (disgustedly) stepping around them in their work. Only, after reading the chapter on their enterprising habits, would watch as one would carefully roll up a ball of manure, only to have another take it away from him. I haven't seen them in years, maybe our fire ants found them easy, tasty foodsource. If I could remember (or locate the book again), I'll relate the name and author. Even though I was not really old enough to grasp heavy-duty reads, this was a delight. Someone recently gave me The Earth Dwellers, another book on ants. (They know reading is my weakness!). This is similarly written, but with more of today's 'authority' of the WHY of it all; author Erich Hoyt. The pencil line drawings are wonderful. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 08:36:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA18157 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:36:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA23223; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:27:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA22902 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:24:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA09678 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:40:50 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5A38.C4BC5D60@FLYLO>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:45:47 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5A38.C4BC5D60@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: roadside spraying Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:45:46 -0600 Encoding: 26 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 466 You CAN fight poisonous sprays along the right-of-ways. My best friend runs a (grant funded) very small public school for our area homeschooled children. Not a 'school' in the sense that a strict educational curriculum is taught, but the homeschoolers are allowed to study environmental aspects instead. (Their parents are responsible for the 'real' stuff.) Several wonderful projects were first thwarted by our local agencies. The children made seed balls and paper mache seed 'planters' that they planted wildflower seeds and used them to study erosion control. Also planted wildflower patches along the ditches in front of the school. Horrified when the county crews came along and mowed then sprayed the ditches. Contacting the actual crews who did the work, my friend worked out a solution that she paid the county to make up NO MOW signs, showing a bee and a flower. As these signs have the county 'look' to them, the crews avoid them much more readily than if they were made up by an independent contractor. A part of the problem is that the supv rarely is on hand to point out where to avoid, and many of the crews are prison trustees who can't read. I've long said it's such a waste of money for the crews to come along and mow all our roadsides then go back with Roundup or Cleanup and spray areas they just mowed. Double fuel, double manpower, plus the harm that overspraying does. If you can show the local populace that it's money out of their pockets, you'll have a much stronger voice at the meetings. I realize this tactic won't work on the RR Commission, as it's easier to fill up a tank car with poison and spray inclines and out of the way places, but hopefully, some medium can be reached. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 09:44:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA19440 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29742; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29614 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:35:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA17752 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:51:42 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5A42.2C8F9020@FLYLO>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:53:07 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5A42.2C8F9020@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: ants & a KINGDOM Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:53:06 -0600 Encoding: 29 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 467 Ferdinand mentioned: < Where ants are in serious undersupply, problems of stagnation, hardening or dyeing are creeping in.> Around here, things are much more lively during fire ant season. If you intend to address the Queen, you're going to have to do it several times because they've learned to adapt to multiple queening practices. You walk with a brisk step. You don't loll or linger. You don't leave a board or a haybale in the sun for over an hour or so. Baby animals are much more fleet of foot if they're to survive at all. people with young children are likely to keep epinephrine handy just in case of multiple stings resulting in seizures. Ants love the smell of ozone and more fires in Texas are created in the summertime due to ants in the electrical units than any other reason. Parked your car? Check for ants before you drive off! You'd think these ants would be giants because of the harm they can cause, but Fire Ants are among the smallest of the ant types. We've learned: No snacking in bed! The ants love a midnight snack too. Be careful of that pepper you're putting on your food, very disheartening when it crawls off the plate. Wildlife populations are seriously affected. If you find fawns that have ants, immediately force feed them Gatorade or some other electrolyte solution. Ants outside = even more ants inside and the shock of the salty electrolytes will flush them from the intestines. But, yet I still contend that ants can be a beneficial, even more so than ladybugs if we only learn how to co-habit with the colonies. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 10:05:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19825 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:05:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA02152; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:56:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01976 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:55:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp268.cy-net.net [208.21.195.77]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA20817 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:11:38 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5A44.E7D7AD20@FLYLO>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:12:40 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5A44.E7D7AD20@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: ants & a KINGDOM Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:12:39 -0600 Encoding: 8 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 468 The book I referred to is Fabre's Illustrated Book of Insects. Now if I can just go find it again. Gee, ya'll sure have me rereading a lot of great old books these days! And THANK YOU to whoever suggested bibliophile source for out of print books. I located Islandia for $60+ at Amazon and it was about $17 at that listing! martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 11:00:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21265 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:00:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA09914; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:51:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09382 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:47:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0107.direct.ca ([204.244.83.7] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10D9Dq-0006Un-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:49:11 -0800 Message-ID: <36CAE48E.E3EB86FB@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:47:26 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: ants & a KINGDOM & hell, too! References: <01BE5A42.2C8F9020@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 469 Dear Martha, There is something going on in this world between air pollution and ant population. The termite population has exploded in some parts of the world. It looks to me that if we do not come to a very conscious understanding of the world of insects (and the animal world in general for that matter) we will be driven off the planet. For eons, man did not dwell on this earth with the present day thinking, and nataure was quite happy with that situation - mankind too. Something sinister has been introduced not 'so long ago'! It was put into our head! Steiner made it abundantly clear that unless modern mankind does come to a new understanding of the world of fungi (as an example), the fungi will invade mankind. And this is exactly what is happening.(Yeast infection is only one of the problem). And 'an ant infection' is the next problem - and so forth. A multitude of additional infections are looming on the horizont. The chemical industry won't have enough answeres. Nature has the ability to adapt and, in the end, will survive (ruthlessly - if mankind does not listen). Of course, talking to the Antdom does not mean that I am doing all the talking, by no means; it implies that I must listen, too. And in that process, new solutions come to the fore. Recently, someone said to me that if we have a problem we simply sit out there and pray (for whatever we may want to have or need etc.) 'and manna will fall from heaven'. In our modern times that kind of 'praying' may lead to a very egotistic way of behaviour. Give me, give me never gets, have you learned your manners yet? A little child can, of course, ask (kindly) whether it may receive certain things - and we may grant its wish. Demands are differently treated and, eventually, without success. Our adolescent children are trying (at times) to follow that pattern.... A large number of so called scientists ask (and demand) with a certain (profit) goal in mind (come hell or high water). There is no listening attached to their questions. Hell is on the way to come and high water, too - and an invasion of ants, fungi, pests, illnesses etc. etc. Regards Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > Ferdinand mentioned: > < Where > ants are in serious undersupply, problems of stagnation, hardening or > dyeing > are creeping in.> > > Around here, things are much more lively during fire ant season. If you > intend to address the Queen, you're going to have to do it several times > because they've learned to adapt to multiple queening practices. > You walk with a brisk step. You don't loll or linger. You don't leave a > board or a haybale in the sun for over an hour or so. Baby animals are much > more fleet of foot if they're to survive at all. people with young children > are likely to keep epinephrine handy just in case of multiple stings > resulting in seizures. > Ants love the smell of ozone and more fires in Texas are created in the > summertime due to ants in the electrical units than any other reason. > Parked your car? Check for ants before you drive off! You'd think these > ants would be giants because of the harm they can cause, but Fire Ants are > among the smallest of the ant types. > We've learned: No snacking in bed! The ants love a midnight snack too. Be > careful of that pepper you're putting on your food, very disheartening when > it crawls off the plate. > Wildlife populations are seriously affected. If you find fawns that have > ants, immediately force feed them Gatorade or some other electrolyte > solution. Ants outside = even more ants inside and the shock of the salty > electrolytes will flush them from the intestines. > But, yet I still contend that ants can be a beneficial, even more so than > ladybugs if we only learn how to co-habit with the colonies. > martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 11:45:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22225 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:45:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA19070; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:36:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18259 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:33:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from laquerencia@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D3N2JH88; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:34:10 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:35:09 -0600 Subject: living with ants Message-ID: <19990217.103509.5094.1.LaQuerencia@juno.com> References: <01BE5A42.2C8F9020@flylo> <36CAE48E.E3EB86FB@direct.ca> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-15 From: Deborah M Byron Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 470 When my house was invaded by ants (the tame kind, not the maniacal fireants). I found that a spray of Dr. Bronner's peppermint soap would quickly dispatch the visible ones (wonder if that's included on his label). It didn't, of course, eliminate the colony and inevitably they'd resume their march across the kitchen counters. Noticing that my ants (as I came to think of them) craved animal protein, I decided to surrender the battle and began to feed them leftover chicken bones, gradually moving their "dining table" some distance outside. Naturally, if I forgot them for too long, a scouting party would soon appear in the sink to remind me. Sometimes you just have to admit it when you've been licked. Warm regards to all ant admirers. Deborah Byron ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 12:00:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA22532 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:00:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA21596; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:50:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21286 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:49:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp276.cy-net.net [208.21.195.85]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA04113 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:05:18 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5A54.4C5F0180@FLYLO>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:02:51 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5A54.4C5F0180@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: living with ants Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:02:50 -0600 Encoding: 5 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 471 I make soap and use peppermint essential oils in them. I'll have to give it a try next time my ants get overdemanding. Peppermint makes ME downright perky, I'd never have thought about using it on ants. Clove oil probably would work but I don't like the smell either. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 12:19:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23010 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:19:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25177; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:09:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA24466 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:05:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:05:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902171705.MAA24466@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 16962 invoked from network); 17 Feb 1999 17:07:31 -0000 Received: from i48-12-31.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO DAVE) (216.26.4.223) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 1999 17:07:31 -0000 X-Sender: drobison@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Dave Robison Subject: solar water pump Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 472 This is a big area, there are many options. Suggest you check out Home Power magazine, www.homeenergy.org Also there are informative on-line catlogs from Real Goods, www.realgoods.com and Jade Mountain, www.jademountain.com If you want to join another email group, subscribe to owner-pvusers@crest.org or owner-ae@listproc.sjsu.edu My folks installed a small PV system to drip irrigate garden and orchard in Montana. 15 years ago and still doing great! ================== Dave Robison Stellar Processes From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 12:19:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23008 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:19:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25400; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:10:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA24482 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:05:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:05:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902171705.MAA24482@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 16972 invoked from network); 17 Feb 1999 17:07:32 -0000 Received: from i48-12-31.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO DAVE) (216.26.4.223) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 1999 17:07:32 -0000 X-Sender: drobison@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Dave Robison Subject: OFF: GE Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 473 =======================Electronic Edition======================== . . . RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #637 . . ---February 11, 1999--- . . HEADLINES: . . AGAINST THE GRAIN . . ========== . . Environmental Research Foundation . . P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403 . . Fax (410) 263-8944; E-mail: erf@rachel.org . . ========== . . All back issues are available by E-mail: send E-mail to . . info@rachel.org with the single word HELP in the message. . . Back issues are also available from http://www.rachel.org. . . To start your own free subscription, send E-mail to . . listserv@rachel.org with the words . . SUBSCRIBE RACHEL-WEEKLY YOUR NAME in the message. . ================================================================= AGAINST THE GRAIN A new book by Marc Lappe and Britt Bailey, AGAINST THE GRAIN, makes it clear that genetic engineering is revolutionizing U.S. agriculture almost overnight.[1] In 1997, 15% of the U.S. soybean crop was grown from genetically engineered seed. By next year, if Monsanto Corporation's timetable unfolds on schedule, 100% of the U.S. soybean crop (60 million acres) will be genetically engineered.[1,pg.5] The same revolution is occurring, at the same pace, in cotton. Corn, potatoes, tomatoes and other food crops are lagging slightly behind but, compared to traditional rates of change in farming, they are being deployed into the global ecosystem at blinding speed. The mass media have largely maintained silence about the genetic engineering revolution in agriculture, and government regulators have imposed no labeling requirements, so the public has little or no knowledge that genetically altered foods are already being sold in grocery stores everywhere, and that soon few traditional forms of food may remain on the shelves. Genetic engineering is the process whereby genes of one species are implanted in another species, to give new traits to the recipient. Traditionally the movement of genes has only been possible between closely-related species. Under the natural order established by the Creator, there was no way dog genes could get into cats. Now, however, genetic engineering allows scientists to play God, removing genes from a trout or a mosquito and implanting them in a tomato, for better or for worse. Three federal agencies regulate genetically-engineered crops and foods -- the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The heads of all three agencies are on record with speeches that make them sound remarkably like cheerleaders for genetic engineering, rather than impartial judges of a novel and powerful new technology, and all three agencies have set policies that: ** No public records need be kept of which farms are using genetically-engineered seeds; ** Companies that buy from farmers and sell to food manufacturers and grocery chains do not need to keep genetically-engineered crops separate from traditional crops, so purchasers have no way to avoid purchasing genetically engineered foods; ** No one needs to label any crops, or any food products, with information about their genetically engineered origins, so consumers have no way to exercise informed choice in the grocery store. In the U.S., every food carries a label listing its important ingredients, with the remarkable exception of genetically engineered foods. These policies have two main effects: (1) they have kept the public in the dark about the rapid spread of genetically engineered foods onto the family dinner table, and (2) they will prevent epidemiologists from being able to trace health effects, should any appear, because no one will know who has been exposed to novel gene products and who has not. Today Pillsbury food products are made from genetically-engineered crops. Other foods that are now genetically engineered include Crisco; Kraft salad dressings; Nestle's chocolate; Green Giant harvest burgers; Parkay margarine; Isomil and ProSobee infant formulas; and Wesson vegetable oils. Fritos, Doritos, Tostitos and Ruffles Chips -- and french fried potatoes sold by McDonald's -- are genetically engineered.[1,pg.92] By next year, if Monsanto's plans develop on schedule -- and there is no reason to think they won't -- 100% of the U.S. soybean crop will be genetically engineered. Eighty percent of all the vegetable oils in American foods are derived from soy beans, so most foods that contain vegetable oils will contain genetically engineered components by next year or the year after.[1,pg.52] It is safe to say that never before in the history of the world has such a rapid and large-scale revolution occurred in a nation's food supply. And not just the U.S. is targeted for change. The genetic engineering companies (all of whom used to be chemical companies) -- Dow, DuPont, Novartis, and preeminently, Monsanto -- are aggressively promoting their genetically engineered seeds in Europe, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, India, China and elsewhere. Huge opposition has developed to Monsanto's technology everywhere it has been introduced outside the United States. Only in the U.S. has the "agbiotech" revolution been greeted with a dazed silence. Monsanto -- the clear leader in genetically engineered crops -- argues that genetic engineering is necessary (nay, ESSENTIAL) if the world's food supply is to keep up with human population growth. Without genetic engineering, billions will starve, Monsanto says. However, neither Monsanto nor any of the other genetic engineering companies appears to be developing genetically engineered crops that might solve global food shortages. Quite the opposite. If genetically engineered crops were aimed at feeding the hungry, then Monsanto and the others would be developing seeds with certain predictable characteristics: (a) ability to grow on substandard or marginal soils; (b) plants able to produce more high-quality protein, with increased per-acre yield, without increasing the need for expensive machinery, chemicals, fertilizers, or water; (c) they would aim to favor small farms over larger farms; (d) the seeds would be cheap and freely available without restrictive licensing; and (e) they would be for crops that feed people, not meat animals. None of the genetically engineered crops now available, or in development (to the extent that these have been announced) has any of these desirable characteristics. Quite the opposite. The new genetically engineered seeds require high-quality soils, enormous investment in machinery, and increased use of chemicals. There is evidence that their per-acre yields are about 10% lower than traditional varieties (at least in the case of soybeans),[1,pg.84] and they produce crops largely intended as feed for meat animals, not to provide protein for people. The genetic engineering revolution has nothing to do with feeding the world's hungry. The plain fact is that fully two-thirds of the genetically engineered crops now available, or in development, are designed specifically to increase the sale of pesticides produced by the companies that are selling the genetically engineered seeds.[1,pg.55] For example, Monsanto is selling a line of "Roundup Ready" products that has been genetically engineered to withstand heavy doses of Monsanto's all-time top money-making herbicide, Roundup (glyphosate). A Roundup Ready crop of soybeans can withstand a torrent of Roundup that kills any weeds competing with the crop. The farmer gains a $20 per acre cost-saving (compared to older techniques that relied on lesser quantities of more expensive chemicals), but the ecosystem receives much more Roundup than formerly. To make Roundup Ready technology legal, EPA had to accommodate Monsanto by tripling the allowable residues of Roundup that can remain on the crop.[1,pg.75] Monsanto's patent on Roundup runs out in the year 2000, but any farmer who adopts Roundup Ready seeds must agree to buy only Monsanto's brand of Roundup herbicide. Thus Monsanto's patent monopoly on Roundup is effectively extended into the foreseeable future -- a shrewd business maneuver if there ever was one. However, this should not be confused with feeding the world's hungry. It is selling more of Monsanto's chemicals and filling the corporate coffers, which is what it was intended to do. "Feeding the hungry" is a sales gimmick, not a reality. Monsanto's other major line of genetically engineered crops contains the gene from a natural pesticide called Bt. Bt is a naturally-occurring soil organism that kills many kinds of caterpillars that like to eat the leaves of crops. Bt is the pesticide of choice in low-chemical-use farming, IPM [integrated pest management] and organic farming. Farmers who try to minimize their use of synthetic chemical pesticides rely on an occasional dusting with Bt to prevent a crop from being overrun with leaf-eating caterpillars. To them, Bt is a God-send, a miracle of nature. Monsanto has taken the Bt gene and engineered it into cotton, corn and potatoes. Every cell of every plant contains the Bt gene and thus produces the Bt toxin. It is like dusting the crop heavily with Bt, day after day after day. The result is entirely predictable, and not in dispute. When insect pests eat any part of these crops, the only insects that will survive are those that are (a) resistant to the Bt toxin, or (b) change their diet to prefer other plants to eat, thus disrupting the local ecosystem and perhaps harming a neighboring farmer's crops. According to Dow Chemical scientists who are marketing their own line of Bt-containing crops, within 10 years Bt will have lost its usefulness because so many insects will have developed resistance to its toxin.[1,pg.70] Thus Monsanto and Dow are profiting bountifully in the short term, while destroying the usefulness of the one natural pesticide that undergirds the low-pesticide approach of IPM and organic farming. It is another brilliant -- if utterly ruthless and antisocial -- Monsanto business plan. Ultimately, for sustainability and long-term maximum yield, agricultural ecosystems must become diversified once again. This is the key idea underlying organic farming. Monoculture cropping -- growing acre upon acre of the same crop -- is the antithesis of sustainability because monocultures are fragile and unstable, subject to insect swarms, drought, and blight. Monocultures can only be sustained by intensive, expensive inputs of water, energy, chemicals, and machinery. Slowly over the past two decades, the movement toward IPM and organic farming has begun to take hold in this country -- despite opposition from the federal government, from the chemical companies, from the banks that make farm loans, and from the corporations that sell insurance. Now comes the genetic engineering revolution, which is dragging U.S. agriculture back down the old path toward vast monocultures, heavy reliance on machinery, energy, water, and chemicals, all of which favors the huge farm over the small family operation. It is precisely the wrong direction to be taking agricultural technology in the late 20th century, if the goals are long-term maximum yield, food security, and sustainability. It is a wrong direction for another reason as well. When 100% of the soybeans in the U.S. are grown from Roundup Ready seed -- next year -- then 100% of America's soybean farmers will be dependent upon a single supplier for all their seed and the chemicals needed to allow those seeds to thrive. In sum, Monsanto will have achieved a monopoly on a fundamental food crop. It is clear that Monsanto's goal is a similar monopoly on every major food crop here and abroad. If something doesn't change soon, it is safe to predict that a small number of "life science" corporations (as they like to call themselves) -- the majority of them American and the remainder European -- will have a monopoly on the seed needed to raise all of the world's major food crops. Then the hungry, like the well-fed, will have to pay the corporate owners of this new technology for permission to eat. [To be continued.] ========== [1] Marc Lappe and Britt Bailey, AGAINST THE GRAIN; BIOTECHNOLOGY AND THE CORPORATE TAKEOVER OF YOUR FOOD [ISBN 1567511503] (Monroe, Maine: Common Courage Press, 1998). Available from Common Courage Press, P.O. Box 207, Monroe, ME 04951. Tel. (207) 525-3068. Descriptor terms: agriculture; biotechnology; genetic engineering; regulation; usda; fda; epa; corporations; food safety; food security; pesticides; bt; glyphosate; roundup; monsanto; dow; dupont; ################################################################ NOTICE Environmental Research Foundation provides this electronic version of RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY free of charge even though it costs our organization considerable time and money to produce it. We would like to continue to provide this service free. You could help by making a tax-deductible contribution (anything you can afford, whether $5.00 or $500.00). Please send your tax-deductible contribution to: Environmental Research Foundation, P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403-7036. Please do not send credit card information via E-mail. For further information about making tax-deductible contributions to E.R.F. by credit card please phone us toll free at 1-888-2RACHEL, or at (410) 263-1584, or fax us at (410) 263-8944. --Peter Montague, Editor ################################################################ ================== Dave Robison Stellar Processes From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 14:01:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26217 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:00:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA10739; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:28:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10253 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:25:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10DBeZ-0007YI-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:24:55 -0800 Message-ID: <36CB0934.73FECD1B@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:23:49 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: River Pump / Water Wheel Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------430D02C5A2ABBEEE37795137" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 474 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------430D02C5A2ABBEEE37795137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anybody help me with the construction of a pontoon on which we intend to mount a waterwheel so that we can either produce electricity or better even attach a pump in order to lift water approx. 30' up into our gardens. I have attached (if you can open it) a sketch. The river has a speed (winter) of approx. 4mph and in the spring and summer up to 20mph. But we do not need the pump in the winter. So, at say 15mph, what diameter of wheel (torque) would I need to activate (drive) a pump that can lift (steadily) whatever amount of water between 30 - 50' feet. Many thanks for your help. 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iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisnxLbvc6eiIVGJN3zHHY1rUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUV59YX02nyPJBt 3MmzkdK7Ww1CG7jiHmxmZo97Kh6dM/zq5RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRXD+Ip0uNWkaPy yoAG5P4uKr6UpbVLUKCf3qnj616BRRRRRRUNxbR3Bi8zP7qTzB9amooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorL8Q3H2ayR/n/1mPkOOxrUoooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo rjNcuJXkktom/wBCtnVFX+6cfn2NanhSKIwy3KRqh4i9eg5P45/St+iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiisnxNcyW2l/u8fvW8s/TBri61/CsXmaurZx5SFvr2/rXZ0UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVm67HBJZqLj7u71x2ND/2Q== --------------430D02C5A2ABBEEE37795137-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 14:17:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26544 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:16:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA17392; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:07:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA16937 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:05:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10DCJJ-0001xO-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:07:01 -0800 Message-ID: <36CB1314.1FE282E@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:05:56 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: River Pump / Water Wheel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 475 I must have made a mistake with the drawing. It turned out to be far too large. How can I get it smaller, having picked it up from my scanner as 'photo' and then passed it on as jpeg. 504K. Can it be done smaller or does it need to be transferred as drawing etc. Thanks Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 14:28:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26735 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:28:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19744; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:19:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from webc02.globecomm.net (www2.iname.net [165.251.12.22]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19000 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:15:58 -0500 (EST) From: pamdetray@email.com Received: by webc02.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) id OAA21702 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9902171416432Z.15441@webc02.globecomm.net> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:16:43 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Stirring Barrel Compost Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 476 ---- On Feb 15 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Pam DeTray told me that she is stirring the Barrel Compost Prep for 20 > minutes (in waster of course) and I was telling her that this is too > long. Well, how long, she asked. I replied: 12 minutes or even less. > Why? I told her that I had to test it myself. So, I stirred it and at > about six minutes I got the very distinct feeling that it was enough but > at 20 minutes it was too long. > > The stirring is > just for mixing the BC thoroughly with water so that it can be sprayed. > Remember, when you apply the BC on your land it can be sprinkled on or > in the barn, the same, with excellent results. It is binding the smell > of cow/pig/horse etc. urine and we also pour it into our sceptic tank. > It works there, too. Althoug, you will have to puncture holes into the > cake (at the top). So, BC IS THE ANSWER. NATURALLY. snip > Is this o.k. Pam? Regards Ferdinand OK, Ferdinand! Except for one thing-- you mentioned something about 12 minutes being one fifth of an hour, and seemed to attach some significance to that. Another question about BC has occurred to me as well. Is there a particular calendar indication that's best for working with BC? Are we working with downward or upward forces? When I stirred my first batch it was for my houseplants. I used the leftover liquid as rich water for the same plants, and also started an avocado pit in a jar of the stuff. I can't wait to use it outside this spring, and to share it with other gardening friends here in Round Valley. I appreciated the mention of the amount of eggshells needed to make a batch. I've been wondering ever since I read Hugh's book how many eggs it would take to get 14 ounces of shell. What is the ostrich equivalent of 500 chicken eggs, Ferdinand!!! Pam DeTray ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 15:04:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA27509 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:04:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA27430; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:53:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26667 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:49:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.135] (client-151-196-125-135.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.135]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08529 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:51:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902171951.OAA08529@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:11:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 477 Dear BDNow colleagues, With a modest rally of support for the notion, I hereby innaugurate today -- in a separate post -- a thread with the heading: Subject: GEO Consensus - BD Now The idea of the new thread is to give all list participants an opportunity to weave a collective statement on genetically engineered seeds, plants, animals, and organisms. When we feel complete with our statement and level of consensus, we can decide what to do with it -- send it on to Johnny's Seeds, other seed companies, web sites, magazines, officials at USDA, elected representatives, whoever... My sense is that there's a mother lode of insight on this subject among us already -- and that if we really strive to penetrate the questions and issues -- we can develop a statement of power, elegance, wisdom, and impact. At the very least, the exercise will deepen and clarify our own thoughts and feelings on this increasingly pervasive reality. That's surely worthwhile. Excelsior, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 15:06:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA27567 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:06:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28457; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:58:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27502 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:53:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.135] (client-151-196-125-135.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.135]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA17288 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:57:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902171957.OAA17288@smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:54:59 -0500 Subject: GEO Consensus - BDNow From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id OAA27545 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 478 Embryonic Draft #1 We, the undersigned participants on the BDNow electronic mail group, make the following collective statement about genetically engineered organisms, seeds, plants, and animals: We understand that there is a unifying wisdom spread out in nature, and that this wisdom has led to the gradual evolution of a multitude of healthy living organisms which populate the earth, including the human beings. We recognize that human beings are in a complex physical and spiritual relationship with all of these organisms, and that our mutual survival, health, and evolution depends upon the integrity of these relationships. This wisdom of nature -- understood by some as the wisdom of Spirit -- far surpasses the accumulated value of data that provide the foundation for GEO experimentation and propagation. Yet this wisdom is systematically overlooked in the large organizations and laboratories which are increasingly engineering the gene pool and thereby radically altering the basic character of plant and animal nature, and of human food. We recognize that: … Little is known about the possible short- and long-term effects of GEOs on human health and the environment. … There are profound risks to animals and humans -- such as the spread of toxins, allergies or resistance to antibiotics -- from the ingestion of genetically modified food. … Genetically engineered organisms threaten to overtake and displace native species, reducing the variety of the gene pool. … Genetically engineered organisms could potentially cause profound mutations in the genetic structure of the plant, animal, and human realms -- and thereby dull or even destroy the patterns and impulses set in motion by the wisdom of Spirit. We stand in unified opposition to the disrespectful and fundamentally anti-democratic impulse of business and science to rush these experiments out into the natural world, and into the food chain for humans and animals with no notice, no debate, and no choice. ######## P.S. My assumption is that there must be a dozen or more better ways to express and complete what I have tried to put into words here -- and many dozen more valuable insights, arguments, and observations that can be added unto it. I'm not attached to the words -- so don't let this start inhibit any one. So please: propose, rewrite, revise and counter-propose away. Let the weaving begin! I'll do my best to keep track and organize the evolving statement. - Faithfully, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 15:32:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28211 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:32:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA04189; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:23:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03926 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:22:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp396.cy-net.net [208.21.195.205]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA31489 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:38:30 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5A71.A55A10A0@FLYLO>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:32:56 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5A71.A55A10A0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: River Pump / Water Wheel Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:32:55 -0600 Encoding: 17 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 479 After I sent my comment to Ferdinand, I found the file he was talking about. It opened just fine, came in at 10% of the original size, so it wasn't overly large. martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska [SMTP:ferdy@direct.ca] Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 1:06 PM To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: River Pump / Water Wheel I must have made a mistake with the drawing. It turned out to be far too large. How can I get it smaller, having picked it up from my scanner as 'photo' and then passed it on as jpeg. 504K. Can it be done smaller or does it need to be transferred as drawing etc. Thanks Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 15:36:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28287 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:36:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA04655; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA04079 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:22:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from seattle2000.com (sea-pm3-5-p106.wolfenet.com [206.159.21.106]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02970 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:24:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36CB220F.25271BAC@seattle2000.com> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:10:05 -0800 From: Martin Nyberg Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Balanced Business Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: River Pump / Water Wheel References: <36CB1314.1FE282E@direct.ca> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C2CFA45626D8310EC96984F4" Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 480 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C2CFA45626D8310EC96984F4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ferdy, Here is the picture reduced in size. This copy is uses about 90% less memory but still looks good I think. Let me know. Martin Nyberg GreenMan Farm CSA 8800 SW Dilworth Rd Vashon WA. 98070 (206)567-4548 GreenMan@wolfenet.com "Support local sustainable agriculture, Bring the farm back home, Beat the millenium bug" Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > I must have made a mistake with the drawing. It turned out to be far too > large. How can I get it smaller, having picked it up from my scanner as > 'photo' and then passed it on as jpeg. 504K. Can it be done smaller or > does it need to be transferred as drawing etc. Thanks Ferdinand --------------C2CFA45626D8310EC96984F4 Content-Type: image/jpeg; x-mac-type="4A504547"; x-mac-creator="474B4F4E"; name="pump1.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: Unknown Document Content-Disposition: inline; filename="pump1.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQECWAJYAAD/2wBDAAQDAwMDAwQDAwMEBAQFBgkGBgUFBgsICAcJDQsO DQ0LDAwOEBQRDg8TDwwMEhgSExUVFxcXDhEZGhgWGhQWFxb/xADSAAABBQEBAQEBAQAAAAAA AAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJCgsQAAIBAwMCBAMFBQQEAAABfQECAwAEEQUSITFBBhNRYQcicRQygZGh CCNCscEVUtHwJDNicoIJChYXGBkaJSYnKCkqNDU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVm Z2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6g4SFhoeIiYqSk5SVlpeYmZqio6Slpqeoqaqys7S1tre4ubrCw8TFxsfI ycrS09TV1tfY2drh4uPk5ebn6Onq8fLz9PX29/j5+v/AAAsIARwB7AEBEQD/2gAIAQEAAD8A ++6KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKZLLFBE888iRxRqWd3ICqoGSST0AryT4efE7xV8UvGerX/hnTtOt/hj pjNaQaxcwytc63cjhpLQh1RbdG43lX344xk7ca5/4SH9nLQtEsdA8MT+KPBH9p311rl7ahmv 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478Eaz4Qtdak0afUYBEmoJEZWtzuDbwodMn5f7wHrkcHV17w/pHiOxh03WIXnghura9QBipE sEyTRtkHs8akjuMjvWoWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc /lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/l QWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQW Udc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUd c/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lQWUdc/lSPtz94 j8K//9k= --------------C2CFA45626D8310EC96984F4-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 15:52:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28514 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:52:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07046; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:41:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06449 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:37:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10DDks-0000vb-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:39:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36CB28C6.AC6F2EB@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:38:30 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: River Pump / Water Wheel - Martin's Solution References: <36CB1314.1FE282E@direct.ca> <36CB220F.25271BAC@seattle2000.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 481 Many thanks, Ferdinand - so, let it spook around and lets find out if people can help. Martin Nyberg wrote: > Hi Ferdy, > Here is the picture reduced in size. This copy is uses about 90% less > memory but still looks good I think. Let me know. > Martin Nyberg > GreenMan Farm CSA > 8800 SW Dilworth Rd > Vashon WA. 98070 > (206)567-4548 > GreenMan@wolfenet.com > "Support local sustainable agriculture, Bring the farm back home, Beat the > millenium bug" > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > I must have made a mistake with the drawing. It turned out to be far too > > large. How can I get it smaller, having picked it up from my scanner as > > 'photo' and then passed it on as jpeg. 504K. Can it be done smaller or > > does it need to be transferred as drawing etc. Thanks Ferdinand > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [Image] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 15:57:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28596 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:57:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA08126; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:47:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07874 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:45:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10DDsl-0001ew-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:47:43 -0800 Message-ID: <36CB2AAE.57B73568@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:46:38 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds References: <199902171951.OAA08529@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 482 Excellent, Steven. I'll come back on that one. You may have to give US a bit of time - say, limit the whole exercise to a preliminary deadline of 10 days. IT IS A HUGE subject. In 10 days, you may wish to see what you've got and, perhaps, you may have to extend. Regards Ferdinand Steven McFadden wrote: > Dear BDNow colleagues, > With a modest rally of support for the notion, I hereby innaugurate today -- > in a separate post -- a thread with the heading: > > Subject: GEO Consensus - BD Now > > The idea of the new thread is to give all list participants an opportunity > to weave a collective statement on genetically engineered seeds, plants, > animals, and organisms. > > When we feel complete with our statement and level of consensus, we can > decide what to do with it -- send it on to Johnny's Seeds, other seed > companies, web sites, magazines, officials at USDA, elected representatives, > whoever... > > My sense is that there's a mother lode of insight on this subject among us > already -- and that if we really strive to penetrate the questions and > issues -- we can develop a statement of power, elegance, wisdom, and impact. > At the very least, the exercise will deepen and clarify our own thoughts and > feelings on this increasingly pervasive reality. That's surely worthwhile. > > Excelsior, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 16:21:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA28964 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:20:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06604; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:38:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06192 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:36:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10DDgf-0006W2-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:35:13 -0800 Message-ID: <36CB27C0.F0E00A33@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:34:08 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Pump Graph should be o.k. Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F980636D7CBB7F418D3B9914" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 483 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F980636D7CBB7F418D3B9914 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the pump as depicted. Should come across better now. Thanks for info. 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oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooAA/9k= --------------F980636D7CBB7F418D3B9914-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 16:42:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA29824 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:41:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA18725; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:32:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from templar.fgi.net (root@templar.fgi.net [206.101.112.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18329 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:30:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from doreen (usr1tc134.fgi.net [208.235.50.134]) by templar.fgi.net (8.9.0/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA04416 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:31:48 -0600 Message-ID: <00f301be5abc$e354f5a0$8632ebd0@doreen> From: "Doreen Howard" To: Subject: Re: ants & a KINGDOM Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:31:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 484 To add my two bits about fire ants. Adults with allergies should have an epi-pen handy, too. ten or more bites at one time do me in. Also, they love air conditioner compressors, heat pumps and electrical junction boxes. They mound there and short out everything. Had a couple electrician's bills due to fire ants when I lived in Texas (the fire ant capital of the northern hemisphere! Doreen Howard -----Original Message----- From: Martha Wells To: 'bdnow@envirolink.org' Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 8:42 AM Subject: RE: ants & a KINGDOM >Ferdinand mentioned: >< Where >ants are in serious undersupply, problems of stagnation, hardening or >dyeing >are creeping in.> > >Around here, things are much more lively during fire ant season. If you >intend to address the Queen, you're going to have to do it several times >because they've learned to adapt to multiple queening practices. >You walk with a brisk step. You don't loll or linger. You don't leave a >board or a haybale in the sun for over an hour or so. Baby animals are much >more fleet of foot if they're to survive at all. people with young children >are likely to keep epinephrine handy just in case of multiple stings >resulting in seizures. >Ants love the smell of ozone and more fires in Texas are created in the >summertime due to ants in the electrical units than any other reason. >Parked your car? Check for ants before you drive off! You'd think these >ants would be giants because of the harm they can cause, but Fire Ants are >among the smallest of the ant types. >We've learned: No snacking in bed! The ants love a midnight snack too. Be >careful of that pepper you're putting on your food, very disheartening when >it crawls off the plate. >Wildlife populations are seriously affected. If you find fawns that have >ants, immediately force feed them Gatorade or some other electrolyte >solution. Ants outside = even more ants inside and the shock of the salty >electrolytes will flush them from the intestines. >But, yet I still contend that ants can be a beneficial, even more so than >ladybugs if we only learn how to co-habit with the colonies. >martha > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 16:48:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA29993 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:48:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA19961; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:39:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19565 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:37:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.109] (pm3shep4-163-201.intrepid.net [209.190.163.201]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06643 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:39:31 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:27:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Study - shall we continue... Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 485 I feel that the study has gotten stagnant. Personally I am emotionally knocked off course by Glen and Jim's conflict without the clarity to distinguish between the varying points of view. In relation to that dynamic I must say that I feel that I handle Glen's attempt to clarify points better than Jim's offering of many more texts to refer to for clarification. I guess I am looking for a discussion amongst peers who have attempted to digest and synthesize these difficult works as opposed to snippets which lose their context and therefore their meaning when quoted or pointed to on this list. However, I do appreciate having the source texts referred to in addition since it gives me chance to go and attempt the passages myself if sufficiently piqued. Perhaps I want too much. Rather than wallow in internal gossiping/projection around their debate I would prefer to hear anyone who has a clear view on the substance of their/your debate, or move on. I suspect if we went on to the next section we might find some answers and serve both purposes. I am now trying to wrestle with the integration of the picture of the elements of protein and how it combines with the picture of calcium and silica. There seems to be an inversion that takes place as the human/animal picture is contrasted with the vegetable kingdom - in the arrangement of the two sets of chemical elements and their attendant processes. Have any of us got a good image or clarification of this interaction? Mark Moodie mark.es@aecb.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 16:51:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA00081 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:51:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA20118; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:39:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19582 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.109] (pm3shep4-163-201.intrepid.net [209.190.163.201]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06668 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:39:37 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:37:51 -0500 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: River Pump / Water Wheel Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 486 Dear BD Now! members: I repeat - - no matter how large your ostrich - - PLEASE DO NOT SEND GRAPHICS to the LIST, particularly if you are still wrestling with learning your graphic software!! If you have a graphic to share with the list, here are at least two options: send your graphic to me and I will mount it on BD Now! and pass the URL to the group so that anyone with an interest can take a look at it, or, (and this is best if your graphic is of particularly personal interest) mount the graphic on a webpage at your own site and pass the URL to BD Now! members. Whatever you do, PLEASE do NOT send LARGE FILES (or any files!) to the BD Now! List - - its extremely bad netizenship!! (Of course, anyone can be forgiven an occassional belch at the table.) If you have more questions on this, please ask me behind the scenes at: igg@igg.com. Thanks -Allan Balliett The Management igg@igg.com >I must have made a mistake with the drawing. It turned out to be far too large. How can I get it smaller, having picked it up from my scanner as 'photo' and then passed it on as jpeg. 504K. Can it be done smaller or does it need to be transferred as drawing etc. Thanks Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 16:52:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA00104 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:52:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA19803; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:38:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19556 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:37:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.109] (pm3shep4-163-201.intrepid.net [209.190.163.201]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06621 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:39:27 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:26:16 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Belated Flowform Response from HL Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 487 Dears, I HAVE responded before now, but with the vagueries of learning this new program (since my old program crashed taking with all my files) I seem to have bolixed it and can't even find my files on this program. So I'm crawling before walking right now, and I have to be brief. Let me sum up. There's a whole bunch of sympathy for the artistry that created and ongoingly creates flowforms. Flowforms are inspired creations. The artist sweats and bleeds along the way, and compensation of some kind seems just. Not that justice prevails noticably in our world, but it does seem an ideal worth some striving. How might we arrive at it? On the economic side it makes no sense to ship concrete castings over about 200 miles, if that. It's uneconomical and if the artist requires such a thing to compensate him/her for his artistry he is asking for petroleum/pollution karma to rest heavy on his head. Ideally flowforms should be in every estate garden, along every roadside, cleaning up every dirty ditch and every effulent discharge. Anyone creating such a wonderful technology who then sits on it and behaves like a dog in the manger unless his price is met gets an extra helping of gravid karma. Then there is the fear that someone getting ahold of flowforms would just make moulds and cast flowforms, selling them ad infinitum with complete disregard for the sculptors who created them. This is the other side of the paragraph above and probably can be seen as the motivator for that pathology. Please, all lacerated and bruised egos aside, let me suggest a solution just in case it hasn't come up so far. (I haven't been able to read all the posts on this subject.) If anyone fears having their designs stolen, SELL the designs. In fact, sell them over and over as often as possible. How? Isn't it obvious? But perhaps not. How do I say this gently and diplomatically so that it gets past tender egos and lacerated bodies? There's a simple, easy way to go. Maybe I shouldn't suggest it is standard business practice or it will be rejected out of hand. Anyway. Find some plastic manufacturer who will produce and market under license (I know of at least one) and sell designs instead of concrete. I forcast a whopping lot more moulds will be sold than flowforms, and then we'd see flowforms, like I say, in every ditch and effluent channel that way. And the artists would find that MASS MARKETING really gives them vastly greater compensation than they presently get. Presently they live in a Monk's cell on the barest bread and water with no real interaction in a rich and complex world. Going with my suggestion their names would become household words. Steiner says it eloquently in his lectures on World Economy, that division of labor brings about savings in the economy. Leave it to Steiner to make such a broad, general statement. Thus let each do what they are primed for. Artists? Be artists! Take your artistry to the mass producers and let them produce it. Let the marketers market. This is the boulevard to success. If the artist tries to be producer and marketer besides his or her art will suffer, to say nothing of their production and marketing. No kidding. I have to admit my frustration with the anal retentive tone of much of the correspondence on this topic. Maybe I'd hoped for better, (such as folks getting flowforms out widely) but finding out where folks are at is enlightening, though, like I say I haven't managed to get through all the messages yet. I guess I'm hoping that when similar topics arise that there is more atmosphere as a result. Best, Hugh Lovel Best, Hugh Lovel From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 17:38:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01228 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:38:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA13139; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA12266 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:05:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp396.cy-net.net [208.21.195.205]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05072 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:22:23 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5A77.88D7BA80@FLYLO>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:15:05 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5A77.88D7BA80@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: essential oils Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:15:04 -0600 Encoding: 15 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 488 Last week someone (Allan?) asked about essential oils and honey. I work with EO's a lot but lack the honey experience. I'm unsure about the questions, would you be putting eo's into simple syrup and letting the bees steal it for making stronger fragrances in their honey production? (Now, that would be an interesting experiment!) Which do the bees avoid? Which do they crave, and what is the scent like in the honey? Does it hold up well? Does it overpower any food it's used in? I use honey a lot in bread making and the implications are very interesting. Would you be adding it to the honey itself after collection? All EO's have different properties, and I'd think honey would be too strong, and probably break down many of them unless the bees built it into the honey themselves. And I'd start out using essential oils from flowers that are known to be pleasing to the bees. (lavender, chamomile, borage, etc.) martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 17:43:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01299 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:43:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA00014; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:33:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29630 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:31:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp396.cy-net.net [208.21.195.205]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA17062 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:48:02 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE5A83.31F04C80@FLYLO>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:38:33 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5A83.31F04C80@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Stirring Barrel Compost Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:38:32 -0600 Encoding: 18 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 489 Uh, I have the eggs, what about the BC itself? Actually, I think I have more than I bargained for. I have an antique refrigerator that I was using to save my OP seeds in. I hadn't had any reason to go to that place since LAST May. Someone delivered (who knows when) about 10 flats of eggs and I just last week discovered them. (yuck, already broken down and composting away in there.) It didn't help that I'd unplugged the refrigerator in preparation of defrosting it. That's the down side of bartering, you never know what you'll get, and it's not nice when the barteree neglects to inform you that they've gifted you with 240 eggs. This poor refrigerator is older than I am and remember I ain't no spring chicken. Well, neither are these eggs anymore. Any suggestions? Just take the whole mess to the back 40 and 'aerate' the pile awhile? I doubt that my ants would even touch this job! My earthworms dearly love eggshell condominiums, but this would probably do them in. martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 18:47:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA03816 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:47:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA09171; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:36:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from fep8.mail.ozemail.net (fep8.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.102]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08824 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:33:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (slmlb14p09.ozemail.com.au [203.108.28.137]) by fep8.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA18376 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:35:38 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <002701be5ace$25207700$891c6ccb@default> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "Gwenda Robb" To: Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:35:01 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 490 Bravo Steve - however I have read on another militant feminist newsgroup (I'm not!) that little heed is paid to email petitions / letters. In Australia an application is being fast tracked to match the 20mg / kg of Roundup set by the International Food Standards that is a 200 fold increase (.1mg / to 20mg / kg in the allowable levels of Roundup residue in imported soybeans. Regards Gwenda -----Original Message----- From: Steven McFadden To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thursday, 18 February 1999 7:08 Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds > > >Dear BDNow colleagues, >With a modest rally of support for the notion, I hereby innaugurate today -- >in a separate post -- a thread with the heading: > > Subject: GEO Consensus - BD Now > >The idea of the new thread is to give all list participants an opportunity >to weave a collective statement on genetically engineered seeds, plants, >animals, and organisms. > >When we feel complete with our statement and level of consensus, we can >decide what to do with it -- send it on to Johnny's Seeds, other seed >companies, web sites, magazines, officials at USDA, elected representatives, >whoever... > >My sense is that there's a mother lode of insight on this subject among us >already -- and that if we really strive to penetrate the questions and >issues -- we can develop a statement of power, elegance, wisdom, and impact. >At the very least, the exercise will deepen and clarify our own thoughts and >feelings on this increasingly pervasive reality. That's surely worthwhile. > >Excelsior, Steven > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 20:43:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA05504 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:43:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA28100; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:32:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27678 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:29:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-3.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.35]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id RAA20563 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:31:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902180131.RAA20563@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:23:35 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Flowform Response from HL In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 491 Listfolk: Again, as always, uncommon good sense coming out of Blairsville from Hugh Lovel. Perhaps John Thomas in ME and Mark Moodie in England can pass Hugh's cogent suggestions on to, respectively, Jennifer Greene and John Wilkes. It's time these flowforms got wider appreciation and application, as HL says, "in every estate garden, along every roadside, cleaning up every dirty ditch and every effulent discharge." I've been intriguiged with them since the early 1980's; have carried sets cross country twice; written about them on the Web and in BIODYNAMICS; explained them [unsatisfactorily] to hundreds of garden tourists; and run thousands of gallons of BD preparations through them. Here at Aurora Farm our greenhouse set will be cleaned up and operating this week after the winter shutdown. What I haven't appreciated in my promotion of the things is being a sometimes apologist for their makers...bless their artistic/Anthropop souls, they haven't a clue about marketing nor any visible business acumen. Woody At 04:26 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Dears, > >I HAVE responded before now, but with the vagueries of learning this new >program (since my old program crashed taking with all my files) I seem to >have bolixed it and can't even find my files on this program. So I'm >crawling before walking right now, and I have to be brief. > >Let me sum up. There's a whole bunch of sympathy for the artistry that >created and ongoingly creates flowforms. Flowforms are inspired creations. >The artist sweats and bleeds along the way, and compensation of some kind >seems just. Not that justice prevails noticably in our world, but it does >seem an ideal worth some striving. How might we arrive at it? > >On the economic side it makes no sense to ship concrete castings over about >200 miles, if that. It's uneconomical and if the artist requires such a >thing to compensate him/her for his artistry he is asking for >petroleum/pollution karma to rest heavy on his head. > >Ideally flowforms should be in every estate garden, along every roadside, >cleaning up every dirty ditch and every effulent discharge. Anyone creating >such a wonderful technology who then sits on it and behaves like a dog in >the manger unless his price is met gets an extra helping of gravid karma. > >Then there is the fear that someone getting ahold of flowforms would just >make moulds and cast flowforms, selling them ad infinitum with complete >disregard for the sculptors who created them. This is the other side of the >paragraph above and probably can be seen as the motivator for that >pathology. > >Please, all lacerated and bruised egos aside, let me suggest a solution >just in case it hasn't come up so far. (I haven't been able to read all the >posts on this subject.) If anyone fears having their designs stolen, SELL >the designs. In fact, sell them over and over as often as possible. How? >Isn't it obvious? But perhaps not. How do I say this gently and >diplomatically so that it gets past tender egos and lacerated bodies? >There's a simple, easy way to go. Maybe I shouldn't suggest it is standard >business practice or it will be rejected out of hand. Anyway. > >Find some plastic manufacturer who will produce and market under license (I >know of at least one) and sell designs instead of concrete. I forcast a >whopping lot more moulds will be sold than flowforms, and then we'd see >flowforms, like I say, in every ditch and effluent channel that way. And >the artists would find that MASS MARKETING really gives them vastly greater >compensation than they presently get. Presently they live in a Monk's cell >on the barest bread and water with no real interaction in a rich and >complex world. Going with my suggestion their names would become household >words. > >Steiner says it eloquently in his lectures on World Economy, that division >of labor brings about savings in the economy. Leave it to Steiner to make >such a broad, general statement. Thus let each do what they are primed for. > >Artists? Be artists! Take your artistry to the mass producers and let them >produce it. Let the marketers market. This is the boulevard to success. If >the artist tries to be producer and marketer besides his or her art will >suffer, to say nothing of their production and marketing. No kidding. > >I have to admit my frustration with the anal retentive tone of much of the >correspondence on this topic. Maybe I'd hoped for better, (such as folks >getting flowforms out widely) but finding out where folks are at is >enlightening, though, like I say I haven't managed to get through all the >messages yet. I guess I'm hoping that when similar topics arise that there >is more atmosphere as a result. > >Best, >Hugh Lovel > >Best, >Hugh Lovel > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 20:45:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA05550 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:45:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA28357; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:34:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28119 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:32:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.109] (pm3shep1-163-48.intrepid.net [209.190.163.48]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA24289 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:34:29 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002701be5ace$25207700$891c6ccb@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:35:28 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 492 Gwenda - BD Now! was directly asked by Rob Johnston, CEO of Johnny's Seeds, to present reasons why he should find it inappropriate to carry GE seeds in next year's catalog. Steve's drive is not foo foo, this is an attempt to provide intelligent response to a misled (and influential!) man's inquiries. To not respond would be to miss what may be a rare opportunity to affect changes at a seed company which has been a major player supplying seed to the US organic farming movement. To not respond en masse is only to confirm Mr Johnston's assumption that most people are not really concerned about GE seeds. Anyone concerned about GE seed stock - regardless of how practical the application of the technology has been - needs to rise to this opportunity to speak up and back. Once again: I thank Mr. Steven McFadden for pulling us together on this one. -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! igg@igg.com >Bravo Steve - however I have read on another militant feminist newsgroup >(I'm not!) that little heed is paid to email petitions / letters. >In Australia an application is being fast tracked to match the 20mg / kg of >Roundup set by the International Food Standards that is a 200 fold increase >(.1mg / to 20mg / kg in the allowable levels of Roundup residue in imported >soybeans. >Regards Gwenda > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steven McFadden >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Date: Thursday, 18 February 1999 7:08 >Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds > > >> >> >>Dear BDNow colleagues, >>With a modest rally of support for the notion, I hereby innaugurate >today -- >>in a separate post -- a thread with the heading: >> >> Subject: GEO Consensus - BD Now >> >>The idea of the new thread is to give all list participants an opportunity >>to weave a collective statement on genetically engineered seeds, plants, >>animals, and organisms. >> >>When we feel complete with our statement and level of consensus, we can >>decide what to do with it -- send it on to Johnny's Seeds, other seed >>companies, web sites, magazines, officials at USDA, elected >representatives, >>whoever... >> >>My sense is that there's a mother lode of insight on this subject among us >>already -- and that if we really strive to penetrate the questions and >>issues -- we can develop a statement of power, elegance, wisdom, and >impact. >>At the very least, the exercise will deepen and clarify our own thoughts >and >>feelings on this increasingly pervasive reality. That's surely worthwhile. >> >>Excelsior, Steven >> >> From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 21:15:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06131 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:15:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA01750; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:04:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from fep8.mail.ozemail.net (fep8.mail.ozemail.net [203.2.192.102]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01592 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:03:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (slmlb14p09.ozemail.com.au [203.108.28.137]) by fep8.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA26156 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:04:48 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <005001be5ae2$fa6e6480$891c6ccb@default> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "Gwenda Robb" To: Subject: Labyrinths and other things... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:04:09 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01BE5B3F.2C6D9940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 493 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01BE5B3F.2C6D9940 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0049_01BE5B3F.2C6D9940" ------=_NextPart_001_0049_01BE5B3F.2C6D9940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear BD friends, I must confess to being a 'lurker' I read the messages = (usually about am) and haven't participated much due to my involvement = in (sorry off topic!) the "World Game" which proudly will take place in = Melbourne this coming weekend. I suppose it isn't off topic really = because the World Game created by Buckminster Fuller in 1967 is about = Global Issues and I have a huge bundle of 'Action Alerts' &' Petitions = Against Genetically Engineered Foods' ready for the networking table. During the last weekend and in searing heat, a small dedicated and = hardworking group helped my husband and I construct two labyrinths - a = large one for horses (my husband is a racehorse trainer) and a small one = for two legged's.In the lecture beforehand I was fascinated to link some = of the information with flow forms, especially the number 8. Phil = Sedgeman from Byron Bay had mentioned during a workshop that eight flow = forms seemed be more effective than seven, which tied in with 8 being = the relationship between 7 & 9 with 9 being the highest =3D completion, = 8 the center of the labyrinth or vortex and infinity. Sorry if this = doesn't make sense to you - it was a discovery for me.Please give me = feedback but no technical questions, I have the distinction of sleeping = through TWO entire workshops of Dan Winter's. In April I will attending the IACP (International Association Of = Culinary Professionals) in Phoenix. Are any BD'ers that are members and = attending? The conference this year is called 'Building community - an = exploration of food and culture' and has the most holistic range of = workshops and tours that the IACP has presented since I have been a = member. One of the highlights for me is that Michael Ableman from = Fairview Gardens California and author of 'From the good earth' is = giving an opening presentation.. Michael's latest book 'On good land' = documents the struggle for the survival of 10 acres of organic farm land = in suburbia - he won!. I recall a conference in San Francisco that was = called 'From the good earth' in honour of Michael's book where he gave = the opening address illustrated by slides out of his beautiful book and = received a standing ovation. I have suggested that we have a ceremony of = planting some seeds. Now I can't speak for other states in Australia but I have to say = generally in Melbourne (Victoria) that BD seems to be the best kept = secret especially in relation to produce - people lump it in with = organic and if attention is drawn to the fact, then the usual response = is' well they're the same thing'! What makes me wonder if the situation = is the same in the U.S. is that looking at the workshops available at = the conference on sustainability etc. BD is not mentioned once, it's all = 'organic' - though maybe The Wallace Institute for Alternative = Agriculture is BD? There is a visit to the Farm at South Mountain again = listed as organic.... Are there any BD farms near Phoenix? or any BD = events close to 12th or after 18th April happening that I could get to. Warm regards - Gwenda ------=_NextPart_001_0049_01BE5B3F.2C6D9940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mabel

Dear BD friends, I must confess to being a 'lurker' I  read = the=20 messages (usually about am) and haven't  participated much  = due to my=20 involvement in (sorry off topic!) the "World Game" which = proudly will=20 take place in Melbourne this coming weekend. I suppose it isn't off = topic really=20 because the World Game created by Buckminster Fuller in 1967 is about = Global=20 Issues and I have a huge bundle of 'Action Alerts' &' Petitions = Against=20 Genetically Engineered Foods' ready for the networking table.
During the last weekend and in searing heat, a small dedicated and=20 hardworking group helped my husband and I construct two labyrinths - a = large one=20 for horses (my husband is a racehorse trainer) and a small one for two=20 legged's.In the lecture beforehand I was fascinated to link some of the=20 information with flow forms, especially the number 8. Phil Sedgeman from = Byron=20 Bay had mentioned during a workshop that eight flow forms seemed be more = effective than seven, which tied in with 8 being the relationship = between 7=20 & 9 with 9 being the highest =3D completion, 8 the center of the = labyrinth or=20 vortex and infinity. Sorry if this doesn't make sense to you - it was a=20 discovery for me.Please give me feedback but no technical questions, I = have the=20 distinction of sleeping through TWO entire workshops of Dan = Winter's.
In April I will attending the IACP (International Association Of = Culinary=20 Professionals) in Phoenix. Are any BD'ers that are members and = attending? =20 The conference this year is called 'Building community - an exploration = of food=20 and culture' and has the most holistic range of workshops and tours that = the=20 IACP has presented since I have been a member. One of the highlights for = me is=20 that Michael Ableman from Fairview Gardens California and author of = 'From the=20 good earth' is giving an opening presentation.. Michael's latest book = 'On good=20 land' documents the struggle for the survival of 10 acres of organic = farm land=20 in suburbia - he won!. I recall a conference in San Francisco that was = called=20 'From the good earth' in honour of Michael's book where he gave the = opening=20 address illustrated by slides out of his beautiful book and received a = standing=20 ovation. I have suggested that we have a ceremony of planting some = seeds.
Now I can't speak for other states in Australia but I have to say = generally=20 in Melbourne (Victoria) that BD seems to be the best kept secret = especially in=20 relation to produce - people lump it in with organic and if attention is = drawn=20 to the fact, then the usual response is' well they're the same thing'! = What=20 makes me wonder if the situation is the same in the U.S. is that looking = at the=20 workshops available at the conference on sustainability etc. BD is not = mentioned=20 once, it's all 'organic' - though maybe The Wallace Institute for = Alternative=20 Agriculture is BD? There is a visit to the Farm at South Mountain again = listed=20 as organic.... Are there any BD farms near Phoenix? or any BD events = close to=20 12th or after 18th  April happening that I could get to.
Warm regards - Gwenda
 
 
 
 
 
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1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:03:05 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: One Year BD Seminar for Siberians Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id VAA04242 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 494 One-year seminar for people in Siberia who wish to study and to deal with the methodology and practice of the biodynamic agriculture and gardening. We-Larissa & Sergey (both botanists), Olga and Hans-Goeran - have this dream, we possess some experience in this field, we are very enthusiastic about it, we work a lot and with pleasure and we could bring this dream into reality this some help from you. Seven years ago Larissa and Sergey got land 100 km to the north of Irkutsk, they produced vegetables there and at the same time they built their houses, greenhouses and many other things, getting all out of nothing to some extent. The couple has three daughters raging in age from 8 to 15 who also partly participate in the work . Besides there are three more man working constantly at the farmstead. The land, 20 ha, at the death of 9 m clay with sand, lays in the middle of the forest, a little falling down to the south. Three years ago Sergey and Larissa took part in a course on the biodynamic methodology hold in Irkusk by Bernhard Hack from Canada, they ´ got fire ´ and changed their farmstead into the biodynamic way with good results. At the same time they started making preparations - which is not so easy in Siberia - basalt is to be brought from Buryat Autonomic Republic, cilicon is to be brought from another place - the difficulties at such undertaking are hard to imagine to Europeans ! In August of the last year Sergey had an opportunity to take part in a course of Mrs. Maria Thun and her son Matthias K. Thun. Olga is a graduate of the agricultural college, 3 years ago she learnt about anthroposophy, eurythmy and biodynamic methodology and is now trying to unite gardening and agriculture with her work at the eurythmy amanteur theatre in Irkutsk. 4 years ago she had an opportunity to study biologic gardening by Prof. Dieter Trautz in Osnabrueck for three month. Hans - Goeran moved here from Finnland in 1991 with a wish to establish here a community with handicapped teenagers. He had been carrying out such work in Finnland for many years at a rented farmstead ( 8 ha land, many animals, corn and vegetables also for sell ) and he also had contributed to the constructing of the biodynamic work in Finnland. From the Pacific Ocean to the Urals there are about 8000 km. Irkutsk near the lake Baikal lies rather central, always called ´ Gates to the Asia proper Ş. There are many Waldorf schools and initiatives in Siberia, and there is a great interest to the biodynamic methodology too. On the other side of the Urals there is another world, which is too difficult to reach for local people because for example one trip to St. Peterburg costs for an Irkutsk resident 6 teacherís monthly salaries and that to Sachalin makes up 10 salsries. If we wish earnestly to do something for the developing of the biodynamic gardening and agriculture and at the same time forAnthroposophy and Goetheanism in Siberia then we shall work for creating a possibility in the middle of Siberia to study and to deal with the theory and practice of this methodology. If somebody from Europe or America comes e. g. to Irkutsk, Sachalin or to Novosibirsk and conducts a course on biodynamic gardening, it is well done but extremely uneconomic ! Do we really have so much money and forurses in the following subjects for students : growing of curative plants and theurapy using them, ceramics, wickering baskets and productions of barrels. We realize with pain that helpers from the West too often encounter disappointments, when the things promised are not fulfilled and after clear conclusions new variants are suggested and the words are not followed by deeds. We shall pay our full attention to that something similar doesn ë t happen with us. We shall inform about the social form and financing seminar in the next report. According to our ideals seminarists will help in the garden and at the construction from 8.30 to 13.30. After lunch there will be the seminar as long as the forces will hold. The seminar ought way ´ pure philosophers ´ will not go astray to us. If you have any kind of interest for our work, our project or for our dream we ask you, dear friends, to take contact with us - as soon as possible. Your expressed interest will give us further courage. We expect also a lot of questions from you. While answering these questions we do hope to meet the needs for information for friends in our next round letter. With the warmest Siberian greetings and hopes Your Larisa & Sergey, Olga and Hans - Goeran Your can contact Hans - Goeran Hardt and Olga Dimowa at tel. + 7 - 3952 - 366779 FAX : + 7 - 3952 - 340792 E - mail : tuj@angara.ru at Larisa & Sergey Tushilin One-year seminar for people in Siberia who wish to study and to deal with the methodology and practice of the biodynamic agriculture and gardening6CyrSchoolbook One-year seminar for people in Siberia who wish to study and to deal with the methodology and practice of the biodynamic agriculture and gardening One-year seminar for people in Siberia who wish to study and to deal with the methodology and practice of the biodynamic agriculture and gardening. We-Larissa & Sergey (both botanists), Olga and Hans-Goeran - have this dream, we possess some experience in this field, we are very enthusiastic about it, we work a lot and with pleasure and we could bring this dream into reality this some help from you. Seven years ago Larissa and Sergey got land 100 km to the north of Irkutsk, they produced vegetables there and at the same time they built their houses, greenhouses and many other things, getting all out of nothing to some extent. The couple has three daughters raging in age from 8 to 15 who also partly participate in the work . Besides there are three more man working constantly at the farmstead. The land, 20 ha, at the death of 9 m clay with sand, lays in the middle of the forest, a little falling down to the south. Three years ago Sergey and Larissa took part in a course on the biodynamic methodology hold in Irkusk by Bernhard Hack from Canada, they ´ got fire ´ and changed their farmstead into the biodynamic way with good results. At the same time they started making preparations - which is not so easy in Siberia - basalt is to be brought from Buryat Autonomic Republic, cilicon is to be brought from another place - the difficulties at such undertaking are hard to imagine to Europeans ! In August of the last year Sergey had an opportunity to take part in a course of Mrs. Maria Thun and her son Matthias K. Thun. Olga is a graduate of the agricultural college, 3 years ago she learnt about anthroposophy, eurythmy and biodynamic methodology and is now trying to unite gardening and agriculture with her work at the eurythmy amanteur theatre in Irkutsk. 4 years ago she had an opportunity to study biologic gardening by Prof. Dieter Trautz in Osnabrueck for three month. Hans - Goeran moved here from Finnland in 1991 with a wish to establish here a community with handicapped teenagers. He had been carrying out such work in Finnland for many years at a rented farmstead ( 8 ha land, many animals, corn and vegetables also for sell ) and he also had contributed to the constructing of the biodynamic work in Finnland. From the Pacific Ocean to the Urals there are about 8000 km. Irkutsk near the lake Baikal lies rather central, always called ´ Gates to the Asia proper Ş. There are many Waldorf schools and initiatives in Siberia, and there is a great interest to the biodynamic methodology too. On the other side of the Urals there is another world, which is too difficult to reach for local people because for example one trip to St. Peterburg costs for an Irkutsk resident 6 teacherís monthly salaries and that to Sachalin makes up 10 salsries. If we wish earnestly to do something for the developing of the biodynamic gardening and agriculture and at the same time forAnthroposophy and Goetheanism in Siberia then we shall work for creating a possibility in the middle of Siberia to study and to deal with the theory and practice of this methodology. If somebody from Europe or America comes e. g. to Irkutsk, Sachalin or to Novosibirsk and conducts a course on biodynamic gardening, it is well done but extremely uneconomic ! Do we really have so much money and forurses in the following subjects for students : growing of curative plants and theurapy using them, ceramics, wickering baskets and productions of barrels. We realize with pain that helpers from the West too often encounter disappointments, when the things promised are not fulfilled and after clear conclusions new variants are suggested and the words are not followed by deeds. We shall pay our full attention to that something similar doesn ë t happen with us. We shall inform about the social form and financing seminar in the next report. According to our ideals seminarists will help in the garden and at the construction from 8.30 to 13.30. After lunch there will be the seminar as long as the forces will hold. The seminar ought way ´ pure philosophers ´ will not go astray to us. If you have any kind of interest for our work, our project or for our dream we ask you, dear friends, to take contact with us - as soon as possible. Your expressed interest will give us further courage. We expect also a lot of questions from you. While answering these questions we do hope to meet the needs for information for friends in our next round letter. With the warmest Siberian greetings and hopes Your Larisa & Sergey, Olga and Hans - Goeran Your can contact Hans - Goeran Hardt and Olga Dimowa at tel. + 7 - 3952 - 366779 FAX : + 7 - 3952 - 340792 E - mail : tuj@angara.ru at Larisa & Sergey Tushilin 5sing this dream into reality withsree more meead. The land, 20 ha, at the depshodology hold in Irkutsk by Bernth her work at the eurythmy amans - Goeran moved here from Finn carrying out such work in Fing of the biodynamic work in Finshat to Sacchalin makes up 10 salacconduct courses in Siberia aboutch the most part of interested people in Siberia donít knowhe Siberians donít consider iteady expressed theiomised their help in future : r expect to get from Finhms and other rhythms in practicl situation in vegetable - grow and theoretically together withphically could study and practicle to use a part of the plannedr a rich, educating, up-to-date (Bach not excluded) Srfschool, a euryickering baskets and productionto that something similar doesnt report. According to our idea- Şsns - Goeran Hardt and Olga Dimovs 1”“—ĎĎҰ;0x#-+'ëí`.,se so as to conduct courses in Siberia out of which the most part of participants from Siberia wonít learn anything ? Why is it so ? Is it because the Siberians donít consider them necessary or simple they canít organize themselves or rationalize; or is it because the guests from the West follow rather their momentary impuls or an invitation rather than realize : how can we use our limited forces purposeful in order to help our friends in the East effectively. First, we address our friends who have already expressed theyr interest in Siberia and in this task in some way and who partly have already promised their help in future : Mrs.Maria Thun and her son Matthias K. Thun; Mr. Erich Becker, Dotterfelder Farm near Frankfurt; Mr. Hans von Essen, Jaerna; Maija- Leena, Erkki Poutaniemi and Yukka Kivela from Finnland. We address also ´ Research Ring Ş in Germany, Dornach, Emerson - College, Holland, Jaerna - Sweden, America and Georgia. We expect to get from Finnland something about the commercial vegetable - growing, the change from the conventional way to the biodynamic and about the establishment of an organization for selling the products, we expect that our friends Thun acquaint us with the influences of the planet rhythms and other rhythms in practise; we expect from Mr. Becker to share his experience at the construction of Dotterfelder farmstead as well as views and comparisons concerning the general situation in vegetable - growning and agriculture. Right now we expect suggestions from many other people sharing their experience with us : What belongs to a one-year-study of this subject ? In general we have planned that 1 -3 days of the course well be given in public in Irkutsk, then the most serious participants could come to the farmstead for 5 - 10 days and work there practically and theoretically together whis the one-year-students. We hope to start the seminar at easter this year. Larissa and Sergey will speak a lot about their experience and botany, so will Olga ; Hans-Goeran will speak on sense studies, modelling, general anthroposophy, but you must understand that we need your help in order to built a serious education here. If we make a good start for this first ´ All -Siberian Ş seminar then we can count on the fact, that very soon there will appear other pedagogic activities at and around the farmstead as well, time is ripe and there is no lack of will - till now there was only lack of place, where people willing to act anthroposophically could study and practise together without any hindrance. We also donít forget and people in Europe should not forget either that Baikal - region was always the gate to the Asia proper, to Mongolia, to China and great tasks are awaiting us there. New buildings appear at the farmstead and we hope to be able to use a part of the planning house under construction by the end of summer. Dear friends, as soon as we shall have got your binding promise for cooperation in this first year ( time flies ! ) weíll send information on the start of the seminar at Easter 1999 to all places we know in Siberia. We wish to see around the seminar a rich, educating, up-to-date-Bach not excluded- musical, eurythmical, architectural and other creative artistic life. It is so far and difficult to come to the middle of Siberia,- many people think so who have not visited it yet, but the majority who have already found their way here return again and again. Direct Lufthansa flights arrive at Novosibirsk, which is very near. Seven years ago LarisThree years ago Sergey and Lari From Europe itis very close to Moscow by flight. It is also not far by train from Berlin through Warsaw to Moskow ; and from Moscow it takes you 3 diverse days and a half to come by train ( 100 to 160 DM one way ) or 5 hours and a half by plane ( 364 US $ a return ticket ). REPORT OF SERGEY AND LARISA On the present situation of our farmstead and plans for future The farmstead is developing well. The income is stable good or very good independent on weather conditions. Since we turned to the biodynamics the quality of products has improved noticeably. We have enough material for compost, partly self - grown seeds, we make biodynamic preparations ourselves and means of plant protection as well ; so the farmstead is economic. Because of that we can sell our products to lower prices than our competitors at the market. We are stongly convinced that an effective work on information concerning biodynamic agriculture and gardening is to be carried out in our region. Last year we participated in 8 TV programs for farmers and gardeners as well as in 3 broadcasts. There appear our News in newspapers also in series dedicated to our experiences and those from abroad. We have also conducted many lectures on biodynamic gardening for gardeners, students of agronomy and professors, at the curative pedagogic seminar ( in Irkutsk there exist : two curative pedagogic schools, a Waldorfschool, a eurithmy theatre, a seminar on Waldorf pedagogics, a seminar on curative pedagogics and now also a Waldorfkindergarden - seminar ). As we were not able to get the calendar of Maria Thun being useful for us, we saw a necessity of creating a calendar for the year 1998 which we did by means of five old calendars and our astronomical knowledge. We have made many copies and sold them to the interested people here. We could intensify our contacts to Moscow ís and St. Petersburg ës biodynamists ; from there we got Russian translation of Thun - calendars and we have sold them here. There is a great need of biodynamic preparations and of seeds of vegetables and herbs, so we are going to enhance the production of it at our farmstead to cover the local needs. We have also started the compiling of an information sheet ( 4 issues till now ) with reports of our experiences and those from abroad. We live in the middle of Siberia far from the centres Moskow and St. Pe -tersburg, near the lake Baikal ; and it seems to us to be reasonable to build a centre for biodynamic work and studies on the basis of our farmstead, where people with experience in this field from Europe and America could teach and direct students in periods. We shall also invite here the interested people from the Urals to the Pacific for study and training of theory and practice of biodynamic methodology. Through these means it will be introduced to a broader public in the whole Siberia. We are going to enhance the variety of cultures : bread grains, seasonings, vegetables which are common in Europe but less known here as well as berries and fruits. A heated greenhouse must be built. We wish to start bee - keeping as well as to increase our cow stock. In future we intend to produce juice out of cabbage, carrots and pumpkin for allergic people. In winter there will be c From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 21:49:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06596 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:49:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA05967; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:37:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05680 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:36:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (ascend98.netrover.com [205.209.21.109]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA14126 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:38:05 -0500 (EST) From: "manfred palmer" To: Subject: Re: River Pump / Water Wheel Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:33:09 -0500 Message-ID: <01be5ae7$060b4660$LocalHost@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 495 Ferdinand: Like me, it looks like you want to build the pump/generator yourself, and must have devices in mind for the turbine etc. Anyway, I've found that the info from these sites is insightful, and there is at the bottom of this section what is called a sling pump which is anchored in a stream/river and pumps water, without electricity. http://www.jademountain.com/handpumps.html At another section, they describe a microturbine which both pumps and produces electricity. although I think they require a minimum 3' fall. regards, manfred palmer -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 2:09 PM Subject: River Pump / Water Wheel >I must have made a mistake with the drawing. It turned out to be far too >large. How can I get it smaller, having picked it up from my scanner as >'photo' and then passed it on as jpeg. 504K. Can it be done smaller or >does it need to be transferred as drawing etc. Thanks Ferdinand > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 22:10:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA06804 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:10:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA09381; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:01:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA09056 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:59:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem71.digisys.net [205.138.110.120]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA08033 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:01:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36CB8410.288B222C@digisys.net> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:08:00 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: greenhouse covering References: <01BE590B.AE90F380@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 496 Just want to say thanks to everyone that responded with ideas for replacement greenhouse covering. Pat Hironimus From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 23:15:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA07631 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:15:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA17610; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:03:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17411 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:01:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.51] (pm3shep1-163-51.intrepid.net [209.190.163.51]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22211 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:03:32 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:04:35 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: NTE: SAFE FOOD! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 497 >From those hard working people at the USDA who really just want what's good for us! SAFER SALAD IN THE BAG -- Irradiating bagged salads after washing the vegetables in a chlorine solution reduces harmful and non-harmful microorganisms without affecting quality, scientists with USDA's Agricultural Research Service (ARS) report. That's good news for health-conscious consumers who are eating more salads. Sales of packaged lettuce alone were more than $1.2 billion in the United States in 1997. In lab experiments at the U.S. Citrus and Subtropical Products Research Laboratory, Winter Haven, Florida, ARS scientists found that irradiation significantly reduced the microbial and yeast populations on cut iceberg lettuce. Irradiated lettuce had about the same shelf life as untreated samples. This combination treatment could help fresh-cut salads to be included in diets of people who otherwise can't enjoy them because of a potential microbiological health risk. Contact: Robert Hagenmaier (941) 293-4133, ext123. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 17 23:41:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA07980 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:41:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA20785; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:33:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20617 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:31:46 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7DXEa06037 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:31:11 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <16cab029.36cb978f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:31:11 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: companion planting Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 498 While digging purple sweet potatoes I noticed increased tuber formations beneath the bed of dill right next to them. Take note those growers of sweet potatoes. The crop had 500 once and 501 2X with a dressing of farm produced chicken and cow manure compost. Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 00:41:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08835 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:41:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA25636; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:27:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA25504 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:25:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.189]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:28:43 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990217212150.008084e0@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:21:50 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad von Zirkwitz Subject: Re: River Pump / Water Wheel In-Reply-To: <01be5ae7$060b4660$LocalHost@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 499 You guys might want to look at a Tesla Bladeless Turbine design for the pump. It is an invention of Tesla's that is fairly easy to make, as far as turbines go it is the simplest design. It is very efficient, and it uses viscosity and adhesion rather than friction to move the blades. I made a small model where I work and hooked it up to compressed air and it turned at about 10,000 rpms or so with a 4' diameter wheel. I was impressed considering the spacing of the blades would have suited water more, air is something like 14x as viscous so the air was just flying through the blades but turning them well nonetheless. I'm not sure of the webpage addresses for more visuals, but a search is all it takes for those interested. Be cool, Conrad At 09:33 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Ferdinand: Like me, it looks like you want to build the pump/generator >yourself, and must have devices in mind for the turbine etc. Anyway, I've >found that the info from these sites is insightful, and there is at the >bottom of this section what is called a sling pump which is anchored in a >stream/river and pumps water, without electricity. >http://www.jademountain.com/handpumps.html >At another section, they describe a microturbine which both pumps and >produces electricity. although I think they require a minimum 3' fall. >regards, manfred palmer >-----Original Message----- >From: Ferdinand Vondruska >To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics >Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 2:09 PM >Subject: River Pump / Water Wheel > > >>I must have made a mistake with the drawing. It turned out to be far too >>large. How can I get it smaller, having picked it up from my scanner as >>'photo' and then passed it on as jpeg. 504K. Can it be done smaller or >>does it need to be transferred as drawing etc. Thanks Ferdinand >> > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 02:30:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA10165 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:30:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA03790; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from m24.boston.juno.com (m24.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.188]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA03474 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:18:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from barrylia@juno.com) by m24.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D3QL6556; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:19:14 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:18:55 -0800 Subject: Re: living with ants Message-ID: <19990217.232121.-4088469.1.barrylia@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Barry D Lia Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 500 The opening chapter of "The Spell of the Sensuous" by David Abram would make interesting reading as regards living with ants. _____________________________________________________________ Barry Lia \ 206-522-1937 \ 9314 40th Ave NE Seattle WA 98115-3715 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 02:59:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA10363 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:59:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA06030; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:51:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA05859 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:47:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0116.direct.ca ([204.244.83.16] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10DODI-0001zI-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:49:36 -0800 Message-ID: <36CBC5CD.70608E18@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:48:29 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Stirring Barrel Compost & a million questions References: <9902171416432Z.15441@webc02.globecomm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 501 Dear Pam, You know, once you get deeper into BD you start to make all sorts of discoveries. BD becomes a personal experience and one leaves, so to speak, the book behind. Of course, I am always reading and re-reading in the AgCourse (like going to a piano lesson even if and when you are a performing concert pianist). But, then, elemental beings start to reveal themselves - Devas, force fields, and a host of (as of yet unknown to me) forces and so forth; because I have become (likely) a bit more sensitive. And so, when I am stirring the BC (as I did yesterday morning with my students) I do a number of things. I follow the indications of Hugh Courtenay and I understand that he indicated a stirring time of 20 minutes (and that is his discovery in Virginia). Now, I am living in dripping wet Squamish (or thereabouts) and I have to observe whether 20 minutes appears to be right. The next thing I do I connect my heart with the BC and I am feeing into my work - into my stirring work. And my heart tells me that something is not right after 6 - 7 minutes (which is half of the 12 minutes I discussed with you) - it is 1/10th of an hour. By relating to the time of the year (winter, early spring) I realise that 1/10 of an hour (a new discovery for me) for wintertime stirring of BC, is enough. I will have to test it in the summer, when all is dry (and the BC dryer as well). Will I need 12 minutes then? Will I need a more activated water? Will I need a BC that is worked more thoroughly into the water as it has to reach deeper layers? These are the questions, Pam! Of course there are significant differences when stirring a minute or an hour etc. And all can be brought into relationship with the cosmos. Dr. Steiner pointed out the importance of the puls rate in relationship to the rate of breathing a rate of 4 : 1. We would have to discuss this under a new topic and may be picked up by someone. When it comes to Ostrich eggs, I doubt that I will use them (yet). I shall use clean, naturally raised egg (shells) from as close to my neighbourhood hens as I can get them. (my daughter's hens if possible). Some years ago a colleague of mine brought us buckets full of 'concentration camp hen egg shells' and my wife almost died. She did an aura test and demanded that these shells be taken off our property. We had a very heated discussion because (at that time) I did not see the need for egg shells that came from naturally raised hens and the other kind (not to use the name again). But she said: it is not the egg shell as such. It is the suffering, the total disregard for life and the moral concept behing industrial egg production which speaks out of the shells. The shell is only the mediator. And, we do not (NEVER) want it in our preparations. SAME with other animal parts that we may need from time to time. The question(s) of how and when to work with BC are intricate. Answer #1 has to do with practicality. I need four people to shovel - lift - turn - drop ........... shovel - lift - turn - drop etc. etc. the BC for one hour. If I cannot get the people, I cannot make the BC and if they are here on a somewhat positive day, I make the BC. Mind you, for the time being (at least for me) it is far more important to get four positive, happy, supportive people on a 'negative' day than the opposite. Now, what is a positive day? Give me time, please! I will have to test this with your question in mind. We work with the star calendar, however, when making the BC you are not working with the same star influences as when you are, for example, planting or seeding. Perhaps one thing may be of importance (of great importance) namely: the constellation of the MOON. I would say that a few days before and after a full moon is not too helpful. Same with new moon. And then, of course, come the influences of other stars. Don't forget, you are, while potentising the BC (i.e. the cow manure) imprinting it with the insignia of your 'idea' AND the insignia of the starry world. Quite a mouth full. Let this be enough for today. Thanks and appreciation. Ferdinand pamdetray@email.com wrote: > ---- On Feb 15 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > Pam DeTray told me that she is stirring the Barrel Compost Prep for 20 > > minutes (in waster of course) and I was telling her that this is too > > long. Well, how long, she asked. I replied: 12 minutes or even less. > > Why? I told her that I had to test it myself. So, I stirred it and at > > about six minutes I got the very distinct feeling that it was enough but > > at 20 minutes it was too long. > > > > The stirring is > > just for mixing the BC thoroughly with water so that it can be sprayed. > > Remember, when you apply the BC on your land it can be sprinkled on or > > in the barn, the same, with excellent results. It is binding the smell > > of cow/pig/horse etc. urine and we also pour it into our sceptic tank. > > It works there, too. Althoug, you will have to puncture holes into the > > cake (at the top). So, BC IS THE ANSWER. NATURALLY. > > snip > > > Is this o.k. Pam? Regards Ferdinand > > OK, Ferdinand! Except for one thing-- you mentioned something about 12 minutes being one fifth of an hour, and seemed to attach some significance to that. > > Another question about BC has occurred to me as well. Is there a particular calendar indication that's best for working with BC? Are we working with downward or upward forces? > > When I stirred my first batch it was for my houseplants. I used the leftover liquid as rich water for the same plants, and also started an avocado pit in a jar of the stuff. > > I can't wait to use it outside this spring, and to share it with other gardening friends here in Round Valley. > > I appreciated the mention of the amount of eggshells needed to make a batch. I've been wondering ever since I read Hugh's book how many eggs it would take to get 14 ounces of shell. What is the ostrich equivalent of 500 chicken eggs, Ferdinand!!! > > Pam DeTray > > ----------------------------------------------- > FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com > Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 03:05:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA10408 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:05:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA06463; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:56:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA06211 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:53:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0116.direct.ca ([204.244.83.16] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10DOJ9-0002JC-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:55:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36CBC73D.F9C7369B@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:54:37 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: River Pump / Water Wheel References: <3.0.3.32.19990217212150.008084e0@mail.alternatives.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 502 Many thanks Conrad, I will search for it. Regards Ferdinand Conrad von Zirkwitz wrote: > You guys might want to look at a Tesla Bladeless Turbine design for the pump. > It is an invention of Tesla's that is fairly easy to make, as far as > turbines go it is the simplest design. It is very efficient, and it uses > viscosity and adhesion rather than friction to move the blades. I made a > small model where I work and hooked it up to compressed air and it turned > at about 10,000 rpms or so with a 4' diameter wheel. I was impressed > considering the spacing of the blades would have suited water more, air is > something like 14x as viscous so the air was just flying through the blades > but turning them well nonetheless. > I'm not sure of the webpage addresses for more visuals, but a search is all > it takes for those interested. > > Be cool, > Conrad > > At 09:33 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Ferdinand: Like me, it looks like you want to build the pump/generator > >yourself, and must have devices in mind for the turbine etc. Anyway, I've > >found that the info from these sites is insightful, and there is at the > >bottom of this section what is called a sling pump which is anchored in a > >stream/river and pumps water, without electricity. > >http://www.jademountain.com/handpumps.html > >At another section, they describe a microturbine which both pumps and > >produces electricity. although I think they require a minimum 3' fall. > >regards, manfred palmer > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Ferdinand Vondruska > >To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics > >Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 2:09 PM > >Subject: River Pump / Water Wheel > > > > > >>I must have made a mistake with the drawing. It turned out to be far too > >>large. How can I get it smaller, having picked it up from my scanner as > >>'photo' and then passed it on as jpeg. 504K. Can it be done smaller or > >>does it need to be transferred as drawing etc. Thanks Ferdinand > >> > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 03:11:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA10451 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA06861; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:02:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA06806 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:02:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0116.direct.ca ([204.244.83.16] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10DOR6-0005iE-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:03:52 -0800 Message-ID: <36CBC92B.ECE4F16B@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:02:52 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Re: River Pump / Water Wheel References: <01be5ae7$060b4660$LocalHost@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 503 Many thanks for your kind help. Will visit the Website. Regards Ferdinand manfred palmer wrote: > Ferdinand: Like me, it looks like you want to build the pump/generator > yourself, and must have devices in mind for the turbine etc. Anyway, I've > found that the info from these sites is insightful, and there is at the > bottom of this section what is called a sling pump which is anchored in a > stream/river and pumps water, without electricity. > http://www.jademountain.com/handpumps.html > At another section, they describe a microturbine which both pumps and > produces electricity. although I think they require a minimum 3' fall. > regards, manfred palmer > -----Original Message----- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 2:09 PM > Subject: River Pump / Water Wheel > > >I must have made a mistake with the drawing. It turned out to be far too > >large. How can I get it smaller, having picked it up from my scanner as > >'photo' and then passed it on as jpeg. 504K. Can it be done smaller or > >does it need to be transferred as drawing etc. Thanks Ferdinand > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 03:29:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA10617 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:29:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA08057; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:21:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA07902 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:19:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0116.direct.ca ([204.244.83.16] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10DOhi-0003JP-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:21:02 -0800 Message-ID: <36CBCD31.62558085@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:20:02 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Stirring Barrel Compost References: <01BE5A83.31F04C80@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 504 Martha! Bad eggs (I do not mean rotten eggs, which are o.k. for many things) I mean bad eggs from those 'chicken tormenting highrises' - should be dumped. Perhaps composted to be redeemed. But, do not make anything with it. Regards Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > Uh, I have the eggs, what about the BC itself? Actually, I think I have > more than I bargained for. I have an antique refrigerator that I was using > to save my OP seeds in. I hadn't had any reason to go to that place since > LAST May. Someone delivered (who knows when) about 10 flats of eggs and I > just last week discovered them. (yuck, already broken down and composting > away in there.) It didn't help that I'd unplugged the refrigerator in > preparation of defrosting it. > That's the down side of bartering, you never know what you'll get, and it's > not nice when the barteree neglects to inform you that they've gifted you > with 240 eggs. > This poor refrigerator is older than I am and remember I ain't no spring > chicken. Well, neither are these eggs anymore. Any suggestions? Just take > the whole mess to the back 40 and 'aerate' the pile awhile? I doubt that my > ants would even touch this job! > My earthworms dearly love eggshell condominiums, but this would probably do > them in. > martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 09:39:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA14397 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:39:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA07737; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:31:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06322 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:27:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.27] (pm3shep1-163-17.intrepid.net [209.190.163.17]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23411 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:29:41 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:27:56 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: BD Now! Seed List Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 505 Forthe last few weeks Marlin Press (carolemarlin@pacific.net) has been pulling together a seed list for BD Now! You can see it through http://www.igg.com/bdnow/menu.html under 'Grower Support.' We'd need to add to this list and to comment it and make it "ours." (I'll link the "Johnny's Story" to their listing in the near future.) If you have something to say about suppliers and their seed sourcing, seed quality, service and what not, please pass it to Marlin and to BD Now! (Er, Marlin: Ronningers mutated into 'Irish Eyes and blah blah') It's a group effort, please try to add at least one thing to the list. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 10:19:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15308 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:19:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA20318; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:10:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd121.hotmail.com [207.82.252.185]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA19921 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:08:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 8738 invoked by uid 0); 18 Feb 1999 15:10:02 -0000 Message-ID: <19990218151002.8736.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:10:02 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Study - shall we continue... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:10:02 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 506 Dear Mark, My feelings are somewhat like you own on the course of our study: ... However, no matter what Glens', Jims' or even my own view presents to others; the fundamentals of what RS placed into the Ag Lectures will remain there and are essential to life on this planet. .... Don't you think that we could look at both the Macro & Micro aspects and attempt to have some common ground? On the other hand I also get the impression too that we need something more formalized as well so that the course study does not appear to be random thoughts of the members. So let me ask; "Do you think we need some generic way of addressing the issues at hand to be able to synthesise the study?". ... Yes. Do you feel that the earlier that was presented helped when compared with later versions? I found this to be extremely enlightening. .... You got it brother, I don't know that it is a clear view but I'm going to say it. The debate between Jim and Glen gives an emotional setting to the next section that you are referring to; of how Ca/Si chemical elements work. I see it as follows: Glen offered his ideas to us. Giving freely and asking for nothing in return for his detailed explainations. If I remember correctly, it was Glen who brought forth the 1938 version of the Agriculture Lectures. For that I am thankful. So in this case, I will liken Glen to Silica - ever giving, as stated by RS. In Jims case, we see someone who has all the anthroposophic text, as well as all the answers. He even has a new MODERN method of placing structure on top of the Lectures by use of the tool of Objectives. Therefore since Jim knows all these things and has all the texts to support his theory, and has previously done all the studing and thinking required to come to the proper conclusions; Jim must be likened to Calcium. ... I'm with you Mark. Do we have to ask the mentors to move on? Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 10:21:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15365 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:21:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA20740; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:12:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20031 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:09:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp30.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.130]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA11269 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:09:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001101be5b50$8df04e40$824b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: BD Now! Seed List Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:08:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 507 Wow! This is wonderful. I am wondering what criteria earns a place on this list...All seed sources are organic and/or BD right? Where will we be seeing the comments? Will each heading/source name link to a comments page? "Great job!" to all who put this together! Julie >Forthe last few weeks Marlin Press (carolemarlin@pacific.net) has been >pulling together a seed list for BD Now! > >You can see it through http://www.igg.com/bdnow/menu.html under 'Grower >Support.' > >We'd need to add to this list and to comment it and make it "ours." (I'll >link the "Johnny's Story" to their listing in the near future.) If you have >something to say about suppliers and their seed sourcing, seed quality, >service and what not, please pass it to Marlin and to BD Now! (Er, Marlin: >Ronningers mutated into 'Irish Eyes and blah blah') > >It's a group effort, please try to add at least one thing to the list. > >-Allan Balliett >igg@igg.com > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 10:26:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15632 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:26:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA21631; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:18:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21439 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:17:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.27] (pm3shep3-163-127.intrepid.net [209.190.163.127]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01296 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:19:10 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001101be5b50$8df04e40$824b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:20:18 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: BD Now! Seed List Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 508 >Wow! This is wonderful. I am wondering what criteria earns a place on this >list...All seed sources are organic and/or BD right? Where will we be seeing >the comments? Will each heading/source name link to a comments page? "Great >job!" to all who put this together! > >Julie This is Marlin's project. I think it's great if it co-evolves so we can make the most of this group that has come together to study the vital root of existence as manifested through the lense of RS and biodynamic agriculture. As far as I know, this is NOT a list of BD or organic -only seed companies, but this is definitely a criteria that s.b. marked and expounded upon as necessary. I am all in favor, myself, in also listing those companies that carry an array of bio-regional seeds. It's up to us to take those into the BD stream. -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 10:55:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA16790 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:55:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA26273; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:46:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25990 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:44:42 -0500 (EST) From: cvinson@mindspring.com Received: from hcv (user-38lcfaa.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.61.74]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA16617 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:46:29 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: BD Now! Seed List Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:45:25 -0500 Message-ID: <006301be5b55$b399c720$79e345cf@hcv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 509 A few of additions (sorry to be slow posting this!). Those marked with "**" are commercial, i.e., they sell the seed rather than work as a seed saving group on membership basis. Seeds of Texas Seed Bank P. O. Box 9882 College Station, TX 77842 (also publishes an outstanding introductory book on seed saving techniques) Garden State Heirloom Seed Society P. O. Box 15 Valley Road Delaware, NJ 07833 (outstanding group with huge selection of seed) Howell Living History Farm ** 101 Hunter Road Titusville, NJ Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds ** 2278 Baker Creek Road Mansfield, MO 65704 (has catalog; 35 varieties of eggplant. All grown on own farm.) Maine Seed Saving Network P. O. Box 126 Penobscot, ME 04476 Ocean State Seed Savers 17 Station Street Coventry, RI 02816 Internet Tomato Trials P. O. Box 76823 Sandy Springs, GA 30358 (only tomato seed, OP/heirloom) Catharine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 12:11:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18965 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:11:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA08209; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:53:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.152]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06294 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.4.187]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:46:20 +0000 Message-ID: <36CC4491.661E@cwcom.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:49:21 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: GM crops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 510 Can anyone please tell me whether oil-seed rape is insect pollinated or wind pollinated ? Thanks, Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 12:14:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19024 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:14:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA10364; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:04:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from neptune.wyenet.net (neptune.wyenet.net [195.188.115.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09681 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:01:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902181701.MAA09681@envirolink.org> Received: from [193.164.96.96] by neptune.wyenet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 527-57157U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:01:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Flowform Response from HL Date: Thu, 18 Feb 99 17:03:53 +0000 x-sender: mark.es@mail.aecb.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Mark Moodie To: "BD list Postings" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 511 Woody Wodraska wrote;- >Perhaps John Thomas in ME and Mark Moodie in England can pass Hugh's >cogent suggestions on to, respectively, Jennifer Greene and John Wilkes. I've forwarded this to Nick Weidmann who is John Wilkes closest associate at Emerson college and probably best able to judge if or when to mention it to John. John, as has been mentioned, is busy trying to get the institute building erected without aggravating his own heart arrhythmia ( - I kid you not!). He is also still trying - after many years - to get his book out for publication. He thought it might be this year but I believe he has thought this before in respect to the year he was then in! I suspect that you are close to the point - John is no world beating organiser or business man and has been burnt before by people trying to run with the idea. He seems reluctant to let the baby wander too far. This is no disrespect to him. Another avenue you might wish to follow is to talk to Andrew Joiner who was a student of Johns and has designed Flowforms and has run Iris Water for years doing sewage pond systems and Flowforms. He is much more geared to larger scale production, has found a better way to make the moulds than John uses - ie a silicon mould as opposed to a GRP one - and he may be willing to talk to any of you or your acquaintances who would like to get these things spread throughout the known universe. He can be contacted on iriswater@compuserve.com. I actually prefer Andrew's designs such as the Shamrock for larger applications and the Helena for smaller ones. I guess what I would like to say to you and to Hugh is that to have Flowforms on every water flow in the world would be of dubious benefit because most need pumps. We still are discussing just how effective these forms are. They are work in progress and part of the work is to improve the systems and another part is to see if they do do what is hoped of them. Mark Moodie mark.es@aecb.net From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Feb 18 12:26:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19301 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:26:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA07688 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:36:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07561 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08005 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:36:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.27] (pm3shep1-163-49.intrepid.net [209.190.163.49]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16246; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:36:00 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:37:07 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Applied Biodynamics #25: Winter 98/99 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 512 If you are interested in natural growing and not a member of JPI, you really oughta join. I recommend that after you get your subscription to ACRES USA, you should get an "associate contract" with JPI and start receiving APPLIED BIODYNAMICS, which is edited by Malcolm Gardner. Applied Biodynamics #25: Winter 98/99 issue contains: A short tribute to E.E. Pfeiffer (for his 100th birthday) Personal Experiences with Sequential Spraying 10 years of data (for the use of weather modification) Alice Marie's wonderful piece on her 'one cow dairy' An "Interim Analysis" of Sequential Spraying Your own Sequential Spraying Report Form and some good inspirational quotes from RS JPI, which is also a supplier of biodynamic preps, can be reached at POB 133, Woolwine, VA 24185 1-540-930-2463 -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! PS Yes, I'm a satisfied user of JPI's services =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 12:32:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19869 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:32:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA13723; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:22:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from xul.nidus.net (ahau.nidus.net [208.133.65.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA13225 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:20:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from AngelicOrganics.com (max1-47.rockford.megsinet.net [208.133.102.175]) by xul.nidus.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15478; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:19:55 -0600 Message-ID: <36CC4C97.1233B22F@AngelicOrganics.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:23:49 -0600 From: Meagan Cocke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,es-MX MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Biodynamic Farming Internship Opportunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 513 Organic Farm Internship Program Learn Organic, Biodynamic Farming through this unique Agricultural Work Opportunity. Please post or pass on this information. Are you interested in being a key part in growing organic and Biodynamic vegetables and herbs for over 800 families in the Chicago area? Are you curious about how a small business can work? Are you interested in learning about organic vegetable growing? Would you like to learn all of this and still have some personal time? Angelic Organics Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) farm, located about 90 miles northwest of Chicago, offers an extraordinary opportunity to enthusiastic, hard-working individuals who wish to experience farm life and learn organic and Biodynamic growing methods. Experience is highly valued and additionally compensated. The internship includes room and board, $300 a month, and workers’ comp. Applicants interested in the full season (late April to mid November) are prioritized, but summer internships are also available. 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Interns attend a four day orientation program at the start of their internship at the Michael Fields Agricultural Institute and then continue this training during the season through monthly workshops at area farms. Numerous other scheduled opportunities allow interns to visit a wide variety of over 15 farms in the area, including dairy, grain, small livestock, and vegetable operations. Angelic Organics was started in 1990 by farm owner John Peterson. Peterson grew up on the farm and has seen it move from dairy, to grains and now to organic, Biodynamic vegetables and herbs. The farm now supports 4 year-round staff members. This creates a dynamic on-farm community, a manageable working environment, space to experiment with new ideas and provides numerous years of experience in a variety of areas. The farm is also supported by an amazing group of supportive shareholders. Interns are encouraged to participate in regular Core Group shareholder meetings. For more information, the Angelic Organics’ Intern Handbook is available on the web at http://www.AngelicOrganics.com. For a hard copy of the handbook or for other questions, we can be contacted at mailto:CSA@AngelicOrganics.com; by phone: 815/389-2746; or mail: 1547 Rockton Road, Caledonia, Illinois, 61011. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 13:11:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA20502 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:11:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA20934; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:00:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd99.hotmail.com [207.82.252.163]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA20229 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:56:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 22762 invoked by uid 0); 18 Feb 1999 17:57:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19990218175758.22760.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:57:57 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Belated Flowform Response from HL Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:57:57 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 514 Dear Hugh, I am still perplexed on this subject to a certain degree. I have too a bit of detail on the subect of flowforms. Mabey it is time to go into action with it. We talked a goot while back about the business implications of the flowforms. Since then, I learned from my brother-in-law as to where to obtain the text necessary to build the proper molds in ceramics. The way I understand it is that first a clay form must be cast from which a rubber or silicon mold is then made. In the case of the Virbella form, a clockwise and a counter-clockwise motion forms are needed with interlocking back edges so that multipile forms could be stacked. Once the master(clay mold) is produced, you are ready for mass production of the silicon molds. I guess from there out, the problem would be getting the mold listed in a ceramics order listing. The problem I could forsee in that is the types of items that those publications list; mostly ornamental and decorative items. Therefore it would be necessary for the master mold to qualify for that category. I would dare say there are ceramic shops in every major town & city in the U.S.. In addition to that, ceramics are usually taught in every technical school around that I know of. What could these things do??? I don't think the general public is aware to the way that our water supply has been damaged, so that would definitely not be a selling point. Probably the best selling point in the beginning would be primarily from the asthetic point of view. Initially forms may need to be donated to places such as shopping malls or other places that the public frequently visits for exposure. Once the idea has caught on to others on the outside of BD, then gradually, ideas could be presented to the people sold on the benefits of the flow forms, about how the structure of water can be damaged or repaired by our actions, and on how the flow form is an excellent way of repairing damaged water. After all, the general public holds the key the marketing success or failure of a product. Why not get them to desire a product that holds beneficial life giving properties? Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 13:36:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA21619 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:36:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25566; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:26:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from neptune.wyenet.net (neptune.wyenet.net [195.188.115.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25074 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:23:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902181823.NAA25074@envirolink.org> Received: from [193.164.96.103] by neptune.wyenet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 527-57157U1000L100S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:24:37 +0000 Subject: Re GE and rape seed Date: Thu, 18 Feb 99 18:26:33 +0000 x-sender: mark.es@mail.aecb.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Mark Moodie To: "BD list Postings" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id NAA25083 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 515 Tony Nelson-Smith wrote;- >Can anyone please tell me whether oil-seed rape is insect pollinated or >wind pollinated ? Thanks, Tony N-S. For we beekeepers it is a problem since the bees bring the pollen back to the colony and it makes very crystalline honey. So I assume the bees get involved. However, I think the seeds are then airborne since you often see it along the motorways in the spring and summer. I think Monsanto's measly Ł17K fine is all frontage - there's no stopping the stuff getting out unless they get a sumo wrestlers' genes in there to stop the seeds flying away. Mark Moodie mark.es@aecb.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 13:50:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA21947 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:50:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA28344; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:41:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f107.hotmail.com [209.185.131.170]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA27726 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:38:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 19531 invoked by uid 0); 18 Feb 1999 18:39:53 -0000 Message-ID: <19990218183953.19530.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.230.25.27 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:39:53 PST X-Originating-IP: [205.230.25.27] From: "Connie Gilbert" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: River Pump / Water Wheel Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:39:53 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 516 >Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:05:56 -0800 >From: Ferdinand Vondruska > >I must have made a mistake with the drawing. It turned out to be far too >large. How can I get it smaller, having picked it up from my scanner as >'photo' and then passed it on as jpeg. 504K. Can it be done smaller or >does it need to be transferred as drawing etc. Thanks Ferdinand > > Your scanning software most likely has a 'resize' feature. Resizing it to a smaller picture will take up fewer byte. Also try saving it as a .gif instead of .jpg. Gif format take way less space since it uses only 256 colors instead of 16 million. Simple drawings do not need all those colors. If you have problems resizing, email me and I will send you the url for downloading Paintshop and instructions. Connie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 14:09:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA22652 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:09:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA02137; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:00:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f27.hotmail.com [209.185.131.90]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA01372 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:57:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 12145 invoked by uid 0); 18 Feb 1999 18:58:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990218185813.12144.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.230.25.27 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:58:12 PST X-Originating-IP: [205.230.25.27] From: "Connie Gilbert" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Belated Flowform Response from HL Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:58:12 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 517 >Received: from loki.intrepid.net >Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:26:16 -0500 >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >From: Intergalactic Garage >Subject: Belated Flowform Response from HL >Dears, >--snip--There's a whole bunch of sympathy for the artistry that >created and ongoingly creates flowforms. Flowforms are inspired creations. >The artist sweats and bleeds along the way, and compensation of some kind >seems just. Not that justice prevails noticably in our world, but it does >seem an ideal worth some striving. How might we arrive at it? At the risk of sounding quite unimformed, what exactly is a "flowform"? Thankyou Connie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 14:19:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA22923 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:19:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA03307; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:06:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA02891 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:04:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([203.96.109.181]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990218190641.ECGM3226200.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:06:41 +1300 Message-ID: <36CC64DA.1724@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:07:07 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Study - shall we continue... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 518 Yes I think it is time to move on. For my part I have been completely consumed with harvesting and drying 2.5 ha of herbs and helping my kiwifruit clients with their recent outbreak of passion vine hopper. (Interestingly a pepper achieved about a 80% cleanup, while a Garuda BD prep concoction seems to have achieved the last 20%. A ten minute walk - the next day after spraying - through a previously heavily infested orchard found two hoppers. These methods are proving the only effective means of control organic growers have this season. To date these remedies are being applied to around 20 or so orchards in various states of changeover. The feedback so far is all good. We have an industry field day next week when the data & results will be discussed more fully) The harvesting has come to an end now and so over this last week I have had a chance to at least look at the course again and have similiar thoughts of being ready to move on. I have also been waiting for the New Moon as this often gives a good expansive energy to a project, which I feel we can do with, given the last section was begun on a waning phase. I should have some time over the weekend to scan the next part of the 38 text and post it. Regarding Jims input. I find his approach to me is very attackive with little room for real discussion, due to his firm belief he is 100% right and I am most certainly 100% wrong. So I see no benefit in 'engaging him'. Apart from this, his style of presentation is rich in big statements and reference but very short on example, application and experience. So while I find his work often interesting, its relevance and application often escapes me. If you find it difficult to synthesis I think it is more Jims problem than yours. Probably longer quotes that provide some substance to his 'arguments' would be more helpful than just 'fact' statements. Whatever, it takes all sorts and at the end of the day the nature of a group is an expression of all its parts. As for you other folk. You need to ask questions, speak your images and generally discuss what you see happening. The life of the discussion comes from its participants. I would have though it obvious by now that there is no set 'consensus' understanding of the course or biodynamics in general. If there was hopefully it would have been printed by now and we could all just read it. But sorry "we are this seasons people if we blow it its blown" (Steven Gaskin) From what I can see, lots of folk have read it and have points of view, but it is still a very living document with plenty of room for interpretation. All we have is our willingness to openly discuss our impressions. If everyone sits back in fear and waits for the verdicts from high to be plopped in your lap you may end up with little more than a numb rear end. The life of this discussion is what we/you make it. SO be bold my fellow journeyers question, prod, vision and dream but most of all share it with us all. Afterall life is often sustained, enriched and moved forward by the radical gestures of 'the fool'. Cheers Glen A.Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > I feel that the study has gotten stagnant. Personally I am emotionally > knocked off course by Glen and Jim's conflict without the clarity to > distinguish between the varying points of view. > > In relation to that dynamic I must say that I feel that I handle Glen's > attempt to clarify points better than Jim's offering of many more texts > to refer to for clarification. I guess I am looking for a discussion > amongst peers who have attempted to digest and synthesize these difficult > works as opposed to snippets which lose their context and therefore their > meaning when quoted or pointed to on this list. However, I do appreciate > having the source texts referred to in addition since it gives me chance > to go and attempt the passages myself if sufficiently piqued. Perhaps I > want too much. > > Rather than wallow in internal gossiping/projection around their debate I > would prefer to hear anyone who has a clear view on the substance of > their/your debate, or move on. > > I suspect if we went on to the next section we might find some answers > and serve both purposes. I am now trying to wrestle with the integration > of the picture of the elements of protein and how it combines with the > picture of calcium and silica. There seems to be an inversion that takes > place as the human/animal picture is contrasted with the vegetable > kingdom - in the arrangement of the two sets of chemical elements and > their attendant processes. Have any of us got a good image or > clarification of this interaction? > > Mark Moodie > mark.es@aecb.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 15:07:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA23840 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:07:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA13774; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:57:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd101.hotmail.com [207.82.252.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA13262 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:55:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 18898 invoked by uid 0); 18 Feb 1999 19:56:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19990218195652.18897.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:56:52 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Study - shall we continue... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:56:52 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 519 Dear Glen, Good to hear from you. ... if we do nothing, we get more nothing. .... Hey, I resemble that! ... The only dumb question is the one un-asked. Glen. The one thing that is so extremely difficult to understand is the context in which the Ag Lectures were given. I have gone back to attempt to understand the incredible amount of inventiveness that was alive at that time in the world, with special attention to things as they were in Europe. In the early part of this century, at least in this hemishere of the world, I think that we have a growing of entites who were able to claim intellectual ownership of documents of science. In the same token, these entites, on the opposite side of the coin, were able to suppress the language that gives rise to new understanding for the un-initiated to think in terms of the subject matter of those sciences. For example; I have recently seen one author point to the basic elements of the universe as: Earth, Air, Fire, Water And Ethers. Ethers as a Basic element? While it is possible to see how ethers may act on and with any of the other elements, I had never considered the context of ethers before reading and learning the Ag Lectures. Could you enlighten me as to how I may learn more about this thing called ether? Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 17:39:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA28730 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:39:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA13092; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:28:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from send203.yahoomail.com (send203.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.127]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA12418 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:24:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990218222730.17789.rocketmail@send203.yahoomail.com> Received: from [128.143.38.157] by send203.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:27:30 PST Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:27:30 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: Re: Study - shall we continue... To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 520 . Whatever, it takes all sorts and at the end of > the day the nature of a group is an expression of all its parts. > >Glen, I don't mean to be at all critical, but just to inform you of what is a modern trend up here in the US among the 'x-generation' or the young people who feel that there is no future to progress toward and there is nothing worth caring about. I call these people the 'WHATEVER generation'. I know from monitoring the bdnow that the heat generated among us is NOT from this sort of 'i don't care' attitude, but maybe from caring a LOT. When you pepper your message with a lone WHATEVER it really communicates something that I don't think any of us feel, which is that the things we discuss really don't matter at all, and the end is tomorrow for us all, or maybe sooner. I know that we all care a LOT about our mother earth, not just some textual legalisms. I hope that we can all keep that in mind. I respect the observations of all bders who care and have their eyes open. I appreciate your move toward concrete examples for the healing of our earth. thanks bruce ritchie _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 19:24:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA00432 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:23:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA29450; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:13:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from garnet.sover.net (garnet.sover.net [209.198.87.53]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA28943 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:10:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from bdl (pm4a23.ben.sover.net [207.136.200.151]) by garnet.sover.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA01798 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:12:11 -0500 (EST) Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) bdl from pm4a23.ben.sover.net [207.136.200.151] 207.136.200.151 Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:12:11 -0500 (EST) From: "B. David Lively" To: Subject: Fw: (Fwd) RAFI: Alert! Francophone Africa Bullied to Accept UPOV ' Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:09:31 -0500 Message-ID: <01be5b9c$1fa538a0$3cc888cf@bdl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 521 Hello farmers I thought you might be interested in this post from another list. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Sletten, Jr. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Reply-to: post-o-matic@rafi.org Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:18:15 -0800 From: Edward Hammond To: Multiple recipients of Subject: RAFI: Alert! Francophone Africa Bullied to Accept UPOV '91 RAFI Rural Advancement Foundation International www.rafi.org | rafi@rafi.org News Release - 17 February 1999 ------------------------------- NOTE: French language version to follow very shortly and will be available at http://www.rafi.org/pr/ *** Legal "Terminator" Threatens Francophone Africa's Farmers *** Right to Save Seed in Poor Countries May be Eliminated as 15 African States are Pressured to Accept UPOV '91 Fifteen Francophone African states, among them some of the poorest countries in the world, are under pressure to sign away the right of more than 20 million small-holder farmers to save and exchange crop seed. The decision to abandon Africa's 12,000-year tradition of seed saving will be finalized at a meeting February 22-25 in the Central African Republic. The 15 governments have been told to adopt draconian intellectual property legislation for plant varieties in order to conform to a provision in the World Trade Organization (WTO) that obliges signatories to "protect" plant varieties. The legislation (a kind of legal "Terminator" because it prohibits farmers from replanting "protected" seed) is also known, euphemistically, as "Plant Breeders' Rights". If adopted, the legislation will throw some of Africa's poorest countries into an intellectual property cartel dominated by a handful of OECD states led by the USA, the UK, and Japan. During meetings in East Africa a few days ago, RAFI's Pat Mooney and Hope Shand learned that OAPI (l'Organisation Africaine de la Propriete Intellectuelle/African Intellectual Property Organization) has agreed to adopt "UPOV 91" - the world's most restrictive form of Plant Breeders' Rights. The Convention is managed by the Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants (UPOV) - a subsidiary treaty of the Geneva-based World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). "Francophone African countries are being bullied into adopting UPOV'91", says Pat Mooney, "even though the WTO is about to conduct a review of its plant variety 'protection' clause." Adds Hope Shand, "The review is not expected to be completed before 2001. Many analysts predict that a whole new trade negotiating round may be launched before the review is completed." "African patent offices are being asked to climb on a wagon other countries in other regions may never accept," agrees Pat Mooney, "Conceivably, a new trade round could render compliance unnecessary. Since six of the 15 OAPI states are "least developed countries" (according to UNDP definitions), regardless of the review or a new negotiating round, they have until at least 2006 before they have to introduce any kind of legislation. " "In a worst case scenario," Hope Shand concludes, "OAPI members would still have the option to accept legislation that would allow farmers to save, re-use, and even sell purchased seed. Where is the pressure coming from and why are sovereign countries selling off the historic rights of their farmers?" Urgent Action: RAFI is writing to each of the 15 OAPI countries, contacting both Ministers of Agriculture and Ministers responsible for patent offices. "Depending on the country," Pat Mooney notes, "between one-fifth and one-half of all the farmers are small-holders who depend heavily on their ability to save seed in order to keep production reliable and costs low. There are at least 20 million such farmers in OAPI states," Mooney says, "Next week's decision could be a major blow to the region's food security. We suspect that most Agriculture Ministers don't even know what their patent offices are proposing to do." What is OAPI? The precursor to OAPI was established on September 13, 1962, by 12 francophone African heads of state. It was called the "Office Africain et Malgache de la Propriete Industrielle (OAMPI). The agreement establishing OAMPI was revised in Bangui, Central African Republic on March 27, 1977, and gave birth to OAPI, the "Organisation Africaine de la Propriete Intellectuelle". It has 15 members: Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Gabon, Guinea, Ivory Coast, Niger, Mali, Mauritania, Senegal, Togo. Of these, the following are considered least developed countries by UNDP: Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, Guinea, Mali, Mauritania, and Togo. What is UPOV 91? The original international Plant Breeders' Rights convention was adopted in Paris in 1961. Since then, the Convention has been amended several times and two forms of PBR are now in common use. Most UPOV members, in fact, adhere to its 1978 convention, which is widely interpreted by governments to allow farmers to save and exchange seed. UPOV's 1991 convention, however, assumes that farmers cannot save seed unless governments permit specific exceptions. Around the world, 1.4 billion people depend on the ability of small-holder farmers to save seed for their family food security. To date, the only UPOV members to confirm the 1991 convention are Bulgaria, Denmark, Germany, Israel, Japan, Netherlands, Moldova, Russia, Sweden, UK, and USA. If OAPI bows to WTO and UPOV pressure during the meeting February 22-25, the 15 francophone African States will more than double the Convention's roster of members. ********************************************** http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/4157/ ********************************************** From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 22:40:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04036 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:40:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA26701; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:30:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.better.net (mail.better.net [207.245.208.132]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA26261 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:26:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from better.net ([209.112.3.76]) by mail.better.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 1-666L) with ESMTP id AAA739 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:24:35 -0500 Message-ID: <36CCE0E2.E5830736@better.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:56:18 -0500 From: Maltman Family X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: ants References: <01BE59B2.D8975640@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 522 Hi Martha You wrote in another posting that you react with anaphylactic shock to several fire ant bites. I live in Toronto, and my daughter reacts with violent hives to insect bites, especially our not so normally virulent spiders. I use Australian tea tree oil, just dabbing it right on the bite. It averts any reaction. I realize you'd want the epi pen handy, but the tea tree oil is a great remedy also, particularly if you only get a couple of bites. In Oz they use it for funnel web spider bites (normally fatal) and in Colorado for brown recluse spider bites. Worht the $6 - 7, wouldn't you say? It is great for all kinds for things. I'm never without it wherever I go. Sue Maltman Toronto maojiemin@better.net Martha Wells wrote: > We have Fire Ants here and I've learned to adapt to them. Some plants can't > stand up to them (some of the heirloom eggplants are food for aphids which > the ants use as dairy animals.) > At this time of year, ants could be coming in for a water source or protein > source. In the wilds and in pasture stock, wet newborns are especially easy > prey for ants on the hunt. > Each type has definite tastes and dislikes, but generally, they won't go > after granulated sugar or products made with them. They don't really like > chocolate but will drill through plastic to get at catsup. They'll also > drill through the shells of nuts, so you may have a squirrel 'stash' that > the ants have located. They can feel chicks pipping out in the shell and > drill into the shells a day or so before the baby chicks are due to hatch > out. (and never bother the hen sitting on top of them.) > I keep telling myself that I'm not quite ready to declare ants as a > beneficial, but we sure don't have the problems a lot of area farmers have > to deal with (Japanese beetles, armyworms, ticks, scorpions, etc.) And all > used to be a real menace pre-Fire Ant days. > one thing that may work in your favor is if you have super sugar sand. Ants > can't tunnel and won't try to build in really sandy areas. > > martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 23:05:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA04293 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:05:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA29078; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:55:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA28875 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:52:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-19.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.51]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id TAA07616 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:54:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902190354.TAA07616@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:43:46 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: GEO Consensus: Reading Rachel`` Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_919428226==_" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 523 --=====================_919428226==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List folk: For those who don't feel particularly informed about GE issues in order to comment on this thread for Steven McF's compilation, I'm attaching two text reports by Peter Montague entitled "Against the Grain," which provide a solid grounding about the issues. Montague writes a weekly report called Rachel's Environmental and Health Weekly [for Rachel Carson] I hope this violation of the attachment rule will be forgiven... Woody --=====================_919428226==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Rachel.txt" X-From_: montague@world.std.com Tue Feb 16 19:05:59 1999 Return-Path: montague@world.std.com Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with ESMTP id TAA07477 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0) id UAA10225; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:11:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:11:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902160111.UAA10225@europe.std.com> To: rachel-weekly@world.std.com Subject: Rachel #637: Against the Grain From: rachel@rachel.org Sender: montague@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rachel@rachel.org =======================Electronic Edition======================== . . . RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #637 . . ---February 11, 1999--- . . HEADLINES: . . AGAINST THE GRAIN . . ========== . . Environmental Research Foundation . . P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403 . . Fax (410) 263-8944; E-mail: erf@rachel.org . . ========== . . All back issues are available by E-mail: send E-mail to . . info@rachel.org with the single word HELP in the message. . . Back issues are also available from http://www.rachel.org. . . To start your own free subscription, send E-mail to . . listserv@rachel.org with the words . . SUBSCRIBE RACHEL-WEEKLY YOUR NAME in the message. . ================================================================= AGAINST THE GRAIN A new book by Marc Lappe and Britt Bailey, AGAINST THE GRAIN, makes it clear that genetic engineering is revolutionizing U.S. agriculture almost overnight.[1] In 1997, 15% of the U.S. soybean crop was grown from genetically engineered seed. By next year, if Monsanto Corporation's timetable unfolds on schedule, 100% of the U.S. soybean crop (60 million acres) will be genetically engineered.[1,pg.5] The same revolution is occurring, at the same pace, in cotton. Corn, potatoes, tomatoes and other food crops are lagging slightly behind but, compared to traditional rates of change in farming, they are being deployed into the global ecosystem at blinding speed. The mass media have largely maintained silence about the genetic engineering revolution in agriculture, and government regulators have imposed no labeling requirements, so the public has little or no knowledge that genetically altered foods are already being sold in grocery stores everywhere, and that soon few traditional forms of food may remain on the shelves. Genetic engineering is the process whereby genes of one species are implanted in another species, to give new traits to the recipient. Traditionally the movement of genes has only been possible between closely-related species. Under the natural order established by the Creator, there was no way dog genes could get into cats. Now, however, genetic engineering allows scientists to play God, removing genes from a trout or a mosquito and implanting them in a tomato, for better or for worse. Three federal agencies regulate genetically-engineered crops and foods -- the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The heads of all three agencies are on record with speeches that make them sound remarkably like cheerleaders for genetic engineering, rather than impartial judges of a novel and powerful new technology, and all three agencies have set policies that: ** No public records need be kept of which farms are using genetically-engineered seeds; ** Companies that buy from farmers and sell to food manufacturers and grocery chains do not need to keep genetically-engineered crops separate from traditional crops, so purchasers have no way to avoid purchasing genetically engineered foods; ** No one needs to label any crops, or any food products, with information about their genetically engineered origins, so consumers have no way to exercise informed choice in the grocery store. In the U.S., every food carries a label listing its important ingredients, with the remarkable exception of genetically engineered foods. These policies have two main effects: (1) they have kept the public in the dark about the rapid spread of genetically engineered foods onto the family dinner table, and (2) they will prevent epidemiologists from being able to trace health effects, should any appear, because no one will know who has been exposed to novel gene products and who has not. Today Pillsbury food products are made from genetically-engineered crops. Other foods that are now genetically engineered include Crisco; Kraft salad dressings; Nestle's chocolate; Green Giant harvest burgers; Parkay margarine; Isomil and ProSobee infant formulas; and Wesson vegetable oils. Fritos, Doritos, Tostitos and Ruffles Chips -- and french fried potatoes sold by McDonald's -- are genetically engineered.[1,pg.92] By next year, if Monsanto's plans develop on schedule -- and there is no reason to think they won't -- 100% of the U.S. soybean crop will be genetically engineered. Eighty percent of all the vegetable oils in American foods are derived from soy beans, so most foods that contain vegetable oils will contain genetically engineered components by next year or the year after.[1,pg.52] It is safe to say that never before in the history of the world has such a rapid and large-scale revolution occurred in a nation's food supply. And not just the U.S. is targeted for change. The genetic engineering companies (all of whom used to be chemical companies) -- Dow, DuPont, Novartis, and preeminently, Monsanto -- are aggressively promoting their genetically engineered seeds in Europe, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, India, China and elsewhere. Huge opposition has developed to Monsanto's technology everywhere it has been introduced outside the United States. Only in the U.S. has the "agbiotech" revolution been greeted with a dazed silence. Monsanto -- the clear leader in genetically engineered crops -- argues that genetic engineering is necessary (nay, ESSENTIAL) if the world's food supply is to keep up with human population growth. Without genetic engineering, billions will starve, Monsanto says. However, neither Monsanto nor any of the other genetic engineering companies appears to be developing genetically engineered crops that might solve global food shortages. Quite the opposite. If genetically engineered crops were aimed at feeding the hungry, then Monsanto and the others would be developing seeds with certain predictable characteristics: (a) ability to grow on substandard or marginal soils; (b) plants able to produce more high-quality protein, with increased per-acre yield, without increasing the need for expensive machinery, chemicals, fertilizers, or water; (c) they would aim to favor small farms over larger farms; (d) the seeds would be cheap and freely available without restrictive licensing; and (e) they would be for crops that feed people, not meat animals. None of the genetically engineered crops now available, or in development (to the extent that these have been announced) has any of these desirable characteristics. Quite the opposite. The new genetically engineered seeds require high-quality soils, enormous investment in machinery, and increased use of chemicals. There is evidence that their per-acre yields are about 10% lower than traditional varieties (at least in the case of soybeans),[1,pg.84] and they produce crops largely intended as feed for meat animals, not to provide protein for people. The genetic engineering revolution has nothing to do with feeding the world's hungry. The plain fact is that fully two-thirds of the genetically engineered crops now available, or in development, are designed specifically to increase the sale of pesticides produced by the companies that are selling the genetically engineered seeds.[1,pg.55] For example, Monsanto is selling a line of "Roundup Ready" products that has been genetically engineered to withstand heavy doses of Monsanto's all-time top money-making herbicide, Roundup (glyphosate). A Roundup Ready crop of soybeans can withstand a torrent of Roundup that kills any weeds competing with the crop. The farmer gains a $20 per acre cost-saving (compared to older techniques that relied on lesser quantities of more expensive chemicals), but the ecosystem receives much more Roundup than formerly. To make Roundup Ready technology legal, EPA had to accommodate Monsanto by tripling the allowable residues of Roundup that can remain on the crop.[1,pg.75] Monsanto's patent on Roundup runs out in the year 2000, but any farmer who adopts Roundup Ready seeds must agree to buy only Monsanto's brand of Roundup herbicide. Thus Monsanto's patent monopoly on Roundup is effectively extended into the foreseeable future -- a shrewd business maneuver if there ever was one. However, this should not be confused with feeding the world's hungry. It is selling more of Monsanto's chemicals and filling the corporate coffers, which is what it was intended to do. "Feeding the hungry" is a sales gimmick, not a reality. Monsanto's other major line of genetically engineered crops contains the gene from a natural pesticide called Bt. Bt is a naturally-occurring soil organism that kills many kinds of caterpillars that like to eat the leaves of crops. Bt is the pesticide of choice in low-chemical-use farming, IPM [integrated pest management] and organic farming. Farmers who try to minimize their use of synthetic chemical pesticides rely on an occasional dusting with Bt to prevent a crop from being overrun with leaf-eating caterpillars. To them, Bt is a God-send, a miracle of nature. Monsanto has taken the Bt gene and engineered it into cotton, corn and potatoes. Every cell of every plant contains the Bt gene and thus produces the Bt toxin. It is like dusting the crop heavily with Bt, day after day after day. The result is entirely predictable, and not in dispute. When insect pests eat any part of these crops, the only insects that will survive are those that are (a) resistant to the Bt toxin, or (b) change their diet to prefer other plants to eat, thus disrupting the local ecosystem and perhaps harming a neighboring farmer's crops. According to Dow Chemical scientists who are marketing their own line of Bt-containing crops, within 10 years Bt will have lost its usefulness because so many insects will have developed resistance to its toxin.[1,pg.70] Thus Monsanto and Dow are profiting bountifully in the short term, while destroying the usefulness of the one natural pesticide that undergirds the low-pesticide approach of IPM and organic farming. It is another brilliant -- if utterly ruthless and antisocial -- Monsanto business plan. Ultimately, for sustainability and long-term maximum yield, agricultural ecosystems must become diversified once again. This is the key idea underlying organic farming. Monoculture cropping -- growing acre upon acre of the same crop -- is the antithesis of sustainability because monocultures are fragile and unstable, subject to insect swarms, drought, and blight. Monocultures can only be sustained by intensive, expensive inputs of water, energy, chemicals, and machinery. Slowly over the past two decades, the movement toward IPM and organic farming has begun to take hold in this country -- despite opposition from the federal government, from the chemical companies, from the banks that make farm loans, and from the corporations that sell insurance. Now comes the genetic engineering revolution, which is dragging U.S. agriculture back down the old path toward vast monocultures, heavy reliance on machinery, energy, water, and chemicals, all of which favors the huge farm over the small family operation. It is precisely the wrong direction to be taking agricultural technology in the late 20th century, if the goals are long-term maximum yield, food security, and sustainability. It is a wrong direction for another reason as well. When 100% of the soybeans in the U.S. are grown from Roundup Ready seed -- next year -- then 100% of America's soybean farmers will be dependent upon a single supplier for all their seed and the chemicals needed to allow those seeds to thrive. In sum, Monsanto will have achieved a monopoly on a fundamental food crop. It is clear that Monsanto's goal is a similar monopoly on every major food crop here and abroad. If something doesn't change soon, it is safe to predict that a small number of "life science" corporations (as they like to call themselves) -- the majority of them American and the remainder European -- will have a monopoly on the seed needed to raise all of the world's major food crops. Then the hungry, like the well-fed, will have to pay the corporate owners of this new technology for permission to eat. [To be continued.] ========== [1] Marc Lappe and Britt Bailey, AGAINST THE GRAIN; BIOTECHNOLOGY AND THE CORPORATE TAKEOVER OF YOUR FOOD [ISBN 1567511503] (Monroe, Maine: Common Courage Press, 1998). Available from Common Courage Press, P.O. Box 207, Monroe, ME 04951. Tel. (207) 525-3068. Descriptor terms: agriculture; biotechnology; genetic engineering; regulation; usda; fda; epa; corporations; food safety; food security; pesticides; bt; glyphosate; roundup; monsanto; dow; dupont; ################################################################ NOTICE Environmental Research Foundation provides this electronic version of RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY free of charge even though it costs our organization considerable time and money to produce it. We would like to continue to provide this service free. You could help by making a tax-deductible contribution (anything you can afford, whether $5.00 or $500.00). Please send your tax-deductible contribution to: Environmental Research Foundation, P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403-7036. Please do not send credit card information via E-mail. For further information about making tax-deductible contributions to E.R.F. by credit card please phone us toll free at 1-888-2RACHEL, or at (410) 263-1584, or fax us at (410) 263-8944. --Peter Montague, Editor ################################################################ X-From_: montague@world.std.com Thu Feb 18 18:05:05 1999 Return-Path: montague@world.std.com Received: from smtp.vphos.net (smtp.vphos.net [207.102.129.18]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with ESMTP id SAA31698 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:05:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by smtp.vphos.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04937 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:43:54 -0800 Received: by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0) id TAA09296; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:40:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:40:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902180040.TAA09296@europe.std.com> To: rachel-weekly@world.std.com Subject: Rachel #638: Against the Grain, Part 2 From: rachel@rachel.org Sender: montague@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rachel@rachel.org =======================Electronic Edition======================== . . . RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #638 . . ---February 18, 1999--- . . HEADLINES: . . AGAINST THE GRAIN, PART 2 . . ========== . . Environmental Research Foundation . . P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403 . . Fax (410) 263-8944; E-mail: erf@rachel.org . . ========== . . All back issues are available by E-mail: send E-mail to . . info@rachel.org with the single word HELP in the message. . . Back issues are also available from http://www.rachel.org. . . To start your own free subscription, send E-mail to . . listserv@rachel.org with the words . . SUBSCRIBE RACHEL-WEEKLY YOUR NAME in the message. . ================================================================= AGAINST THE GRAIN, PART 2 The corporations that are introducing genetically modified crops into the global ecosystem want you to think of genetic engineering as a well-understood science similar to laparascopic surgery. Indeed, the phrase "genetic engineering" gives the impression that moving genes from one organism to another is as straightforward as designing a rocket or a TV set. This is not the case. Basically, a plant's genome (all of its genes, taken together) is a black box. Genetic engineering takes a gene from one black box and forces it into a second black box (the recipient plant), hoping that the new gene will "take." Most of the time, the experiment fails.[1] Once in a few thousand tries, the foreign gene embeds itself in the recipient plant's genome and the newly-modified plant gains the desired trait. But that is all the technicians know. They have no idea where in the receiving plant's genome the new gene has found a home. This fundamental ignorance, combined with the speed and scale at which modified organisms are being released into the global ecosystem, raises a host of questions of safety for the future of agriculture, for the environment, and for human health. ** To begin with, genes don't necessarily control a single trait. A gene may control several different traits in a plant. Without careful study, plants with undesirable characteristics may be released into the global ecosystem. And biotechnology is not like a chemical spill that can be mopped up -- once you release a new gene sequence into nature, your grandchildren are going to be living with it because there's no taking it back. ** How a gene affects a plant depends upon the environment. The same gene can have different effects, depending on the environment in which the new plant is growing.[2] What appears predictable and safe after a few years of observation of a small test plot may turn out to have quite different consequences when introduced into millions of acres of croplands in the U.S. and elsewhere, where conditions vary widely. ** Does the new gene destabilize the entire plant genome in some unforeseen way, leading one day to problems in that crop? Only time will tell. ** Genes can travel to nearby, related plants on their own. This is called gene flow. In 1996 gene flow was discovered to be much more common that previously thought.[3] According to SCIENCE magazine, many ecologists say it is only a matter of time before an engineered gene makes the leap to a weedy species, this creating a new weed or invigorating an old one. "It will probably happen in far less than 1% of the products," warns ecological geneticist Norm Ellstrand of the University of California at Riverside, "but within 10 years we will have a moderate-to-large scale ecological or economic catastrophe, because there will be so many [genetically modified] products being released,"[3] Ellstrand predicts. It is worth noting that U.S. farmers already spend $4.3 billion purchasing 628 million pounds of herbicides (active ingredients only) to control weeds.[4,pg.32] The Congressional Office of Technology Assessment (OTA) recommended that all genetically modified plants should be considered non-indigenous exotic species, with the power to disrupt ecosystems.[4,pg.29] Non-indigenous, introduced species have provided great benefits to humanity (most of U.S. agriculture relies on introduced species), but we also should learn from kudzu, purple loosestrife, the gypsy moth, the fire ant, and the boll weevil that exotic species can be extremely disruptive and very expensive to control (if indeed they can be controlled at all). ** A public health disaster was narrowly averted in 1996 when a group of researchers tried to improve soybeans by giving them a gene from the Brazil nut.[5] The goal was to improve the nutritional value of soybeans by forcing them to produce more methionine, an essential amino acid. The gene from the Brazil nut was successfully transferred to soybeans. After this had been accomplished, but before the soybeans were sold commercially, independent researchers tested the soybeans to see if it would cause allergic reactions in people. Many people are allergic to nuts, particularly Brazil nuts. In some people, allergic reaction to Brazil nuts is swift and fatal. A series of laboratory tests on humans confirmed that the genetically modified soybeans did provoke Brazil-nut allergy in humans. They could not feed the genetically modified soybeans to people for fear of killing them, but through scratch tests on skin, they confirmed unequivocally that people allergic to Brazil nuts were allergic to the modified soybeans. In discussing their findings in the NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE, the researchers pointed out that tests on laboratory animals will not necessarily discover allergic reactions to genetically modified organisms. Only tests on humans will suffice. U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) only requires testing for allergic reactions if a gene is being taken from a source that is already known to cause allergic reactions in humans. Many genes are being taken now from bacteria and other life-forms whose allergenicity is entirely unknown, so federal regulations require no allergy testing in these cases. This reduces regulatory costs for the corporations, but leaves the public unprotected. ** Crops are being genetically modified chiefly as a way to sell more pesticides. [See REHW #637.] In some cases, the modified crops change the pesticides themselves, giving them new toxicity. The herbicide bromoxynil falls into this category.[1,pg.41] Bromoxynil is already recognized by U.S. EPA [Environmental Protection Agency] as a possible carcinogen and as a teratogen (i.e., it causes birth defects). Calgene (now owned by Monsanto) developed a strain of cotton plants (called BXN Cotton) that can withstand direct spraying with bromoxynil. Unfortunately, the bromoxynil-resistant gene in cotton modifies the bromoxynil, turning it into a chemical byproduct called DBHA, which is at least as toxic as bromoxynil itself. Although humans do not eat cotton, traditional silage for cattle contains up to 50% cotton slash, gin mill leavings, and cotton debris. Both bromoxynil and DBHA are fat-soluble, so they can accumulate in the fat of animals. Therefore, it is likely that DBHA will make its way into the human food chain through meat. Furthermore, cotton seed oil is widely used as a direct human food and as a cooking additive. In licensing bromoxynil for use on Monsanto's genetically modified BXN Cotton, EPA conducted a risk assessment that assumed bromoxynil and DBHA had no way to enter the human food chain. Lastly, cotton dust -- the cause of brown lung disease -- will now carry the added hazard of bromoxynil and DBHA, another danger that EPA has disregarded. Thus genetic engineering -- which is being promoted as a technology that will reduce the perils of pesticides -- will in some instances increase them. In rats and in rabbits, bromoxynil causes serious birth defects, including changes in the bones of the spine and skull, and hydrocephaly ("water on the brain"). These birth defects appear in offspring at doses of bromoxynil that are not toxic to the mother. Despite these findings, and despite a law (the Food Quality Protection Act of 1996) that explicity gives EPA the power to reduce exposure standards to protect infants, EPA in 1997 declined to require a special safety factor to protect children from bromoxynil. Lastly, when EPA added up the cancer-causing potential of bromoxynil, they found it to be 2.7 per million, and they promptly declared this to be "well within" the one-in-a-million regulatory limit.[1,pg.46] Is 2.7 less than one? By all appearances, EPA is more interested in protecting Monsanto's investment in this new technology than in protecting public health. ** Because genetically-engineered soybeans will be doused with increased quantities of herbicides, such as Roundup (glyphosate), soybeans and soy products will carry increased chemical residues. Infants who must be reared on soy milk, because they cannot tolerate lactose in regular milk, will be at special hazard. ** Crops that are genetically modified to resist herbicides detoxify the herbicides by producing proteins, which will be incorporated into our food with unknown results.[1,pg.143] ** When crops are genetically modified to incorporate the naturally-occurring Bt toxin into their cells (see REHW #636), those Bt toxins will be incorporated into foods made from those crops. What will be the effect of these toxins and gene products on the bacteria and other organisms (the so-called microflora) that live in the human digestive tract? Time will tell. ** The "life sciences" companies have big plans for turning agricultural crops into "factories" for producing pharmaceuticals and specialty chemicals in open fields. They plan to manufacture vaccines, drugs, detergents, enzymes and other chemicals by putting the right genes into the right plants. The net effect of all this will be to expose soil insects and microorganisms, foraging and burrowing animals, seed-eating birds, and a myriad of other non-target organisms to these chemicals and to the gene products that make them. The Union of Concerned Scientists says, "Herbivores will consume the chemicals as they feed on plants. Soil microbes, insects, and worms will be exposed as they degrade plant debris. Aquatic organisms will confront the drugs and chemicals washed into streams, lakes, and rivers from fields."[4,pg.6] ** Most fundamentally, genetically-engineered crops substitute human wisdom for the wisdom of nature. As genetically-engineered crops are planted on tens of millions of acres, the diversity of our agricultural systems is being further diminished. Do we know enough to select the "right" combination of genes to assure the stable, long-term yield of our agricultural systems? Our recent experiences with PCBs, CFCs, DDT, Agent Orange, and global warming should give us pause. Genetic engineering is by far the most powerful technology humans have ever discovered, and it is being deployed by the same corporations that, historically, have produced one large-scale calamity after another. Is there any good reason to think things will be different this time? ========== [1] Marc Lappe and Britt Bailey, AGAINST THE GRAIN; BIOTECHNOLOGY AND THE CORPORATE TAKEOVER OF YOUR FOOD [ISBN 1567511503] (Monroe, Maine: Common Courage Press, 1998). Available from Common Courage Press, P.O. Box 207, Monroe, ME 04951. Tel. (207) 525-0900 or (800) 497-3207. [2] Craig Holdrege, GENETICS AND THE MANIPULATION OF LIFE: THE FORGOTTEN FACTOR OF CONTEXT (Hudson, N.Y.: Lindisfarne Press, 1996). ISBN 0-940262-77-0. Available from Lindisfarne Press, RR4 Box 94 A-1, Hudson, NY 12534. [3] James Kling, "Could Transgenic Supercrops One Day Breed Superweeds?" SCIENCE Vol. 274 (October 11, 1996), pgs. 180-181. [4] Jane Rissler and Margaret Mellon, THE ECOLOGICAL RISKS OF ENGINEERED CROPS (Cambridge, Massachusetts: MIT Press, 1996). [5] Julie A. Nordlee and others, "Identification of a Brazil-nut Allergen in Transgenic Soybeans," NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE Vol. 334, No. 11 (March 14, 1996), pgs. 688-692. Descriptor terms: agriculture; biotechnology; genetic engineering; regulation; epa; food safety; food security; pesticides; bt; glyphosate; roundup; monsanto; bromoxynil; dbha; herbicides; allergens; bxn cotton; soybeans; ################################################################ NOTICE Environmental Research Foundation provides this electronic version of RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY free of charge even though it costs our organization considerable time and money to produce it. We would like to continue to provide this service free. You could help by making a tax-deductible contribution (anything you can afford, whether $5.00 or $500.00). Please send your tax-deductible contribution to: Environmental Research Foundation, P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403-7036. Please do not send credit card information via E-mail. For further information about making tax-deductible contributions to E.R.F. by credit card please phone us toll free at 1-888-2RACHEL, or at (410) 263-1584, or fax us at (410) 263-8944. --Peter Montague, Editor ################################################################ --=====================_919428226==_-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 18 23:48:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA04972 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:48:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA02985; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:34:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02621 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:31:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.20.101]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990219043228.FVDL10208@default>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:32:28 +0000 Message-ID: <36CCE88A.1EC4@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:28:58 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds / My Input References: <199902131516.KAA19108@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 524 Steven McFadden wrote: > > Dear BDNow colleagues, > > In the course of discussion on this thread, some people (can't remember who) > suggested that we do something -- send out some kind of message. I'd like > to second (or maybe third) that idea. > > Here's a proposal: Dear Steven, Here is my personal and professional statement: "I will see to it that neither I, nor any of the many with whom I shall aggressively and vigorously communicate, uses any genetically-engineered seed or product containing genetically-engineered ingredients, or patronizes any partial or full purveyor of such items, to the very best of my ability and, further, I shall make it a point to research legal recourse for any mishaps resulting from farming or ingestion or proximity to any such substances, and to disseminate this information as widely as possible, wherever I can discover or cultivate an audience. I shall continue this course of action until I am satisfied in full and without reservation that the priority in genetic engineering technology has turned away from money, the desired lock-in of future business, and other demonstrations of egotistic enslavement, toward humanitarian stewardship of all sentient life forms on this planet." You mean like that? Love, Linda PS: Anybody who doesn't like this, don't bother emailing me. You lose. ********************************************** From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 04:44:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA07104 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:44:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA22301; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:35:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA22219 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:34:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.98]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990219093601.ZDCZ682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:36:01 +1300 Message-ID: <36CD30CC.1474@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:37:16 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Study: Ag course context Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 525 > Glen. The one thing that is so extremely difficult to understand is the > context in which the Ag Lectures were given. I have gone back to > attempt to understand the incredible amount of inventiveness that was > alive at that time in the world, with special attention to things as > they were in Europe. The big influences I see influencing Humanity at the beginning of this century are the planetary influences active in the 1818-21 - Neptune 90 deg Pluto 17-19, Uranus 90deg Pluto 1820, Neptune sqr Pluto 1820. And most importantly the Uranus conjuct Neptune of 1821( the elder brother of the 1993 one). These influences laced with copious quantities of cocaine, opium and morphine shattered many of the hardening influences of the previous time and encouraged many free thinkers especially in the fields of mysticism and the extreme sciences. Essentially boundaries were pushed which sets up a spirit of endless enquiry. These impulses where grasped upon and strengthened by the 1850 Uranus conj Pluto ( elder brother to the 1967 one) This is a sudden change to existing order & structure replacing it with something potentially radically different. Check out what the mid sixties did to the US and what the people born then are doing to life as they progress through it. So these folks are change bringers and sixty years old in 1910. 1868- 1870 sees Uranus and Neptune at 90 deg. Usually an aspect associated with mystical and electro magnetic breakthroughs. See the 1952-1956 folks for a contemporary image of this one. Big imaginations generally. The next big moment was the 1892 Neptune conj Pluto at Plutos apehelion ( the previous conjuction was in 1398-99) followed by the Uranus oppose Pluto of 1901 to 1902. This is a major new beginning in Human spirituality. When this conjunction occurs in a Human life often it is experienced as a time the individual realises their own connection to 'GOD'. From this point they can take direct guidance without needed some intermediary person or church. In short this is a mass opportunity for awakening and for many, enlightenment. The Uranus opposite a few years later would have people wanting to implement these visions into life no matter what. All these earlier folks (1850s and 1870s) are reaching maturity and empowerment over these years so while these planets are allowing for a massive opening in the human consciousness to the spirit, the earlier 'inspired generations' are coming into their own. This 1892 event is significant in setting a possible new tone for the coming 400 odd years. One more significant event occurred in 1906 till 1910 when Uranus opposed Neptune. Again a boundary breaker, especially in consciousness and how we see the electromagnetic universe. In short the stage was set for a massive explosion into the material world, by the spiritual underpinings of life. This is the setting Steiner lived through. He was part of this bringing of the spiritual experience into daily material life. It was breaking through in many ways and I am sure at the time 'they' would have felt there was no stopping it. Which is why there was two world wars. This is what the dark forces needed to stop this momenteum in human consciousness. The focus on the spirit was replaced by a focus on survival from 1914 to 1950. Effectively two generations were caught in survival mode and the wonderful world of the spirit developed at the end of the 19th century was pushed underground and meant to be forgotten. Luckily the planetary cycles keep turning and these old memories come back. We can look at the history from 1950s and see how the planets have slowly awakened again the potential of the spirit. Most notably look and see what has developed again since the Neptune Uranus conjuction of 1993 ( Do not underestimate the effect of the Saturn square Pluto opposed Persephone aspects also occurring then). And now we stand in the coming shadows of Pluto conjuct Antares and Chiron (Juno is there too) We may well see major lessons in the correct use of the powers we are unleashing and how these need to be bound and focused for positive development especially in all our personal dealings. So an interesting 170 years. Those 'dark forces' are still abroad and still wanting to squash the spirit. Lets hope it has burst the seams again and running uncontrollably wild this time. Mind you their trick now is to wreak the playing field altogether so their will be no place the human spirit can do its unfolding even if it wants to. Poor show really. Well, thats the context I see for the ag course and the need for us to work with it still. In the early part of this century, at least in > this hemishere of the world, I think that we have a growing of entites > who were able to claim intellectual ownership of documents of science. > In the same token, these entites, on the opposite side of the coin, were > able to suppress the language that gives rise to new understanding for > the un-initiated to think in terms of the subject matter of those > sciences. > > For example; I have recently seen one author point to the basic elements > of the universe as: Earth, Air, Fire, Water And Ethers. > > Ethers as a Basic element? While it is possible to see how ethers may > act on and with any of the other elements, I had never considered the > context of ethers before reading and learning the Ag Lectures. Could > you enlighten me as to how I may learn more about this thing called > ether? > > Sincerely, > Michael. > Hugh Lovel is really the man for this question. He has talked about it many times on the list here. Check the archives. Otherwise there are some books. The Etheric formative forces by G Wachsmuth and the Four Ethers by E Marti. The latter might be easier to get hold of. Nice to chat again Cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 04:46:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA07137 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:46:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA22460; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA22330 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:36:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.150]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990219093806.ZDIY682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:38:06 +1300 Message-ID: <36CD3148.2BC1@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:39:20 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Study: Whatevers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 526 Bruce Thank you for your cultural threat. In NZ, at least in my part of the wilds "Whatever" is synonomous with "And so it is". More a statement affirming the wonder and diversity of life, and eachs right to their individual standpoint, than anything nihilistic. Mind you, there is no accounting for taste, so it sometimes has a a slight sarcastic air of "Now thats a wild dude, best leave them to it" Cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 09:37:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA11019 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:37:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA09182; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:28:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08903 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:27:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.184] (pm3shep2-163-68.intrepid.net [209.190.163.68]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00273 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:28:49 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902190354.TAA07616@ns2.vphos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:24:03 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: ATTACHMENTS was Re: GEO Consensus: Reading Rachel`` Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 527 > I hope this violation of the attachment rule will be forgiven... Woody, et al - You're asking the forgiveness of machines, and I'm not referring to myself. Posting attachments to the list is an abuse of posting privledges and a unecological abuse of the 'net. It cannot be tolerated on this list. I suspended the posting privledges of three people this week for repeated posting of attachments and will do the same for yourself. These suspensions mean that posts are reviewed by myself before they are posted to the list: you are NOT being blocked from posting to BD Now!, just blocked from directly posting (in otherwords, back to where we were in September). Suspension lasts for two weeks. Two favors everyone can do for me: DO NOT POST ATTACHMENTS TO THE LIST: it devours my connect time!!! AND learn right now how to UNSUBSCRIBE from BD Now! should you have to in the future! (For the most part, this is an automated function. See below for dirctions.) Thanks for your attention, -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 09:38:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA11028 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA09272; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:29:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08918 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.184] (pm3shep2-163-68.intrepid.net [209.190.163.68]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00308 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:28:52 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902181823.NAA25074@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:26:41 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Re GE and rape seed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id JAA08920 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 528 >Tony Nelson-Smith wrote;- > >>Can anyone please tell me whether oil-seed rape is insect pollinated or >>wind pollinated ? Thanks, Tony N-S. > >For we beekeepers it is a problem since the bees bring the pollen back to >the colony and it makes very crystalline honey. So I assume the bees get >involved. However, I think the seeds are then airborne since you often see >it along the motorways in the spring and summer. I think Monsanto's measly >Ł17K fine is all frontage - there's no stopping the stuff getting out >unless they get a sumo wrestlers' genes in there to stop the seeds flying >away. > >Mark Moodie >mark.es@aecb.net I remember reading that rape seed, which is the source of canola oil (if I'm thinking clearly) caused some fairly serious problems for the health of livestock. I understand that one of the goals of GE is to make rape seed products more 'digestable' by livestock. Which has always left me wondering: why do we humans consume canola as a 'health food.' (Which, emphatically, it is NOT.) -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 09:38:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA11051 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:38:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA09380; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:30:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08930 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:27:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.184] (pm3shep2-163-68.intrepid.net [209.190.163.68]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00327 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:28:55 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36CCE88A.1EC4@worldnet.att.net> References: <199902131516.KAA19108@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:28:22 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds / My Input Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 529 >Steven McFadden wrote: >> >> Dear BDNow colleagues, >> >> In the course of discussion on this thread, some people (can't remember who) >> suggested that we do something -- send out some kind of message. I'd like >> to second (or maybe third) that idea. >> >> Here's a proposal: > > > >Dear Steven, > > Here is my personal and professional statement: > >"I will see to it that neither I, nor any of the many with whom I shall >aggressively and vigorously communicate, uses any genetically-engineered >seed or product containing genetically-engineered ingredients, or >patronizes any partial or full purveyor of such items, to the very best >of my ability and, further, I shall make it a point to research legal >recourse for any mishaps resulting from farming or ingestion or >proximity to any such substances, and to disseminate this information as >widely as possible, wherever I can discover or cultivate an audience. > > I shall continue this course of action until I am satisfied in >full and without reservation that the priority in genetic engineering >technology has turned away from money, the desired lock-in of future >business, and other demonstrations of egotistic enslavement, toward >humanitarian stewardship of all sentient life forms on this planet." > > You mean like that? > > Love, > Linda > >PS: Anybody who doesn't like this, don't bother emailing me. You lose. > >********************************************** How the hell can I even think of putting ink to paper on this topic after you have expressed my sentiments so clearly? GOOD WORK, LINDA!! :-) -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 10:25:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11934 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:25:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA15296; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14995 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:14:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33290-26404>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:15:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:15:52 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: GM food In-Reply-To: <36C83183.2C7F650D@watating.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 530 Everyone; The Nova Scotia Organic Grower's Assoc. 'Saving Seed' - Genetic engineering & and your food supply' is now published. I now have a copy and it gives a good basic understanding of the GE products, open -pollinated, heritage seed companies, and how to voice your opinion of GE foods. A lot of hard volunteer work went into this Canadian newsletter. Price per issue: $3.50 Contact: NSOGA Janet Wallace PO Box 16, Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia, Canada B0S 1A0 Email: jwallace@istar.ca Tel: 902-825-6834 Fax: 902-825-3139 Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia email: av204@chebucto.ns.ca From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 10:51:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA12894 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:51:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA18802; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:43:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18342 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:40:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from laquerencia@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D3T37G7K; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:39:17 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:40:17 -0600 Subject: Re: BDNow seed list Message-ID: <19990219.094022.18686.1.LaQuerencia@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-20 From: Deborah M Byron Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 531 Allan, I just looked over the seed list at the web site (very nicely done) and noticed an establishment listed that I believe is not organic. I don't know what criteria you're using, but I just purchased a tree from that farm myself and was told by a worker there that they spray something (probably RoundUp) on weeds in their orchards. Other than that, she said, they're "pretty much organic". I certainly don't want to do this place harm (its one of the best in this area) but it does raise the issue of what criteria are being used for placement on the BDNow list. Regards, Deborah Byron To which Allan replied: Deborah - Would you mind bringing this up on BD Now!? That's the best placeto arrive at a standard. -Allan ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 11:35:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14084 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:35:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA25671; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:26:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.better.net (mail.better.net [207.245.208.132]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23411 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:14:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from better.net ([209.112.3.157]) by mail.better.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 1-666L) with ESMTP id AAA666 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:12:22 -0500 Message-ID: <36CD94D4.A2CCB158@better.net> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:44:04 -0500 From: Maltman Family X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: this is pretty funny] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3902FB7DECB33B8637562953" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 532 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3902FB7DECB33B8637562953 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought all the brewmasters on the list would like this... Sue Maltman --------------3902FB7DECB33B8637562953 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from hotmail.com ([207.82.251.92]) by mail.better.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 1-666L) with SMTP id AAA465 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:03:44 -0500 Received: (qmail 24027 invoked by uid 0); 19 Feb 1999 16:07:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990219160720.24026.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 137.189.4.7 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:07:18 PST X-Originating-IP: [137.189.4.7] From: "Jamie Maltman" To: mbaker@mit.edu, dgerma3@po-box.mcgill.ca, diane.onodera@utoronto.ca, maojiemin@better.net, j.woodall@utoronto.ca, joubin98@hotmail.com, kathryn_jones@hotmail.com, houns@interlog.com, beaman@ecf.utoronto.ca, vivienne@expedo.com Subject: Fwd: this is pretty funny Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:07:18 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain > This one probably isn't true, but if it were, it might be under >consideration for the Darwin awards. > >----- Begin Included Message ----- > >****************************************** >* Laugh of the Day * >****************************************** > > TOKYO (AP) The recent craze for hydrogen beer is at the heart of > a three way lawsuit between unemployed stockbroker Toshira > Otoma, the Tike-Take karaoke bar and the Asaka Beer > Corporation. Mr Otoma is suing the bar and the brewery for selling > toxic substances and is claiming damages for grievous bodily harm > leading to the loss of his job. The bar is countersuing for > defamation and loss of customers. > > The Asaka Beer corporation brews "Suiso" brand beer, where the > carbon dioxide normally used to add fizz has been replaced by the > more environmentally friendly hydrogen gas. A side effect of this > has made the beer extremely popular at karaoke sing-along bars > and discotheques. > > Hydrogen, like helium, is a gas lighter than air. Because hydrogen > molecules are lighter than air, sound waves are transmitted more > rapidly; individuals whose lungs are filled with the nontoxic gas > can speak with an uncharacteristically high voice. Exploiting this quirk > of physics, chic urbanites can now sing soprano parts on karaoke > sing-along machines after consuming a big gulp of Suiso beer. The > flammable nature of hydrogen has also become another selling > point, even though Asaka has not acknowledged that this was a > deliberate marketing ploy. > > It has inspired a new fashion of blowing flames from one's mouth > using a cigarette as an ignition source. Many new karaoke videos > feature singers shooting blue flames in slow motion, while flame > contests take place in pubs everywhere. "Mr Otoma has no-one to > blame but himself. If he had not become drunk and disorderly, none > of this would have happened. Our security guards undergo the > most careful screening and training before they are allowed to deal > with customers" said Mr Takashi Nomura, Manager of the Tike- > Take bar. "Mr Otoma drank fifteen bottles of hydrogen beer in > order to maximise the size of the flames he could belch during the > contest. He catapulted balls of fire across the room that Gojira > would be proud of, but this was not enough to win him first prize > since the judgement is made on the quality of the flames and that > of the singing, and after fifteen bottles of lager he was badly out > of tune." > > "He took exception to the result and hurled blue fireballs at the > judge, singeing the front of Mrs Mifune's hair, entirely removing > her eyebrows and lashes, and ruining the clothes of two nearby > customers. None of these people have returned to my bar. When > our security staff approached he turned his attentions to them, > making it almost impossible to approach him. Our head bouncer > had no choice but to hurl himself at Mr Otoma's knees, knocking > his legs from under him." "The laws of physics are not to be > disobeyed, and the force that propelled Mr Otoma's legs > backwards also pivoted around his centre of gravity and moved his > upper body forward with equal velocity. It was his own fault he had > his mouth open for the next belch, his own fault he held a lighted > cigarette in front of it and it is own fault he swallowed that > cigarette." > > "The Tike-Take bar takes no responsibility for the subsequent > internal combustion, rupture of his stomach lining, nor the third > degree burns to his oesophagus, larynx and sinuses as the > exploding gases forced their way out of his body. His > consequential muteness and loss of employment are his > own fault." > > Mr Otoma was unavailable for comment. > > Asia offers unique fire protection challenges. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------3902FB7DECB33B8637562953-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 11:38:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14147 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:38:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA26366; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:29:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25903 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:28:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.13.31]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:30:07 +0000 Message-ID: <36CD90F7.2036@cwcom.net> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:27:35 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: GEO Consensus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 533 Steven - Nice work on the embryonic draft no. 1. Mind if I make a few nitpicking suggestions ? (Para.1) We, the undersigned participants in the BD-Now electronic mail group, make the following collective ststement about genetically engineered organisms, whether seeds, plants or animals: (Para.2) We understand thet a unifying wisdom spreads throughout nature, and that this wisdom has led to the gradual evolution of a multitude of healthy living organisms which populate the earth, including human beings. (Para.3) (no alterations) (Para.4) This wisdom of nature - understood by some as the wisdom of Spirit - far surpasses the accumulated data on which GEO experimentation and propagation are founded ... We recognize that: (Point 1) (no alterations) (Point 2) (no alterations) (Point 3) Genetically engineered organisms threaten to overtake, displace or modify native species, reducing the variety of the gene pool and increasing, rather than reducing, the perceived need for herbicides, fungicides or other toxic treatments. (Remainder) (no alterations or additions) Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 11:50:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14369 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:50:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29469; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:42:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28611 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:39:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.116.44] (client-151-196-116-44.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.44]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28443 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:42:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902191642.LAA28443@smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:39:40 -0500 Subject: Re: GEO Consensus From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 534 Thank you Tony. The cutting and pasting has commenced. Best, Steven ---------- >From: Tony Nelson-Smith >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Subject: GEO Consensus >Date: Fri, Feb 19, 1999, 11:27 AM > > Steven - Nice work on the embryonic draft no. 1. Mind if I make a few > nitpicking suggestions ? > (Para.1) We, the undersigned participants in the BD-Now electronic > mail group, make the following collective ststement about genetically > engineered organisms, whether seeds, plants or animals: > (Para.2) We understand thet a unifying wisdom spreads throughout > nature, and that this wisdom has led to the gradual evolution of a > multitude of healthy living organisms which populate the earth, > including human beings. > (Para.3) (no alterations) > (Para.4) This wisdom of nature - understood by some as the wisdom of > Spirit - far surpasses the accumulated data on which GEO experimentation > and propagation are founded ... > We recognize that: > (Point 1) (no alterations) > (Point 2) (no alterations) > (Point 3) Genetically engineered organisms threaten to overtake, > displace or modify native species, reducing the variety of the gene pool > and increasing, rather than reducing, the perceived need for herbicides, > fungicides or other toxic treatments. > (Remainder) (no alterations or additions) Tony N-S. > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 11:51:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14391 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:51:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29592; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:43:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29091 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:41:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.184] (pm3shep4-163-201.intrepid.net [209.190.163.201]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26860 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:42:55 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36CBCD31.62558085@direct.ca> References: <01BE5A83.31F04C80@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:41:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Stirring Barrel Compost Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 535 I spoke with Hugh Courtney (HC) of JPI (the outstanding source for BD preps in the US) this morning about stirring barrel compost (BC). Hugh pointed out that it is MARIA THUN's indication that BC should be stirred for 20 minutes, no more, no less. Hugh is completely open to the fact that because of some people's temperments and because of the energies on some farm organisms that there can be personal variance in how much stirring is appropriate for that situation. However, he thought I should emphasize to he list that while personal modifications are probably the ultimate goal of the biodynamic farming process, one should be careful about accepting what has worked well for another person in their unique situation as gospel or dogma if it divereges from the indications of the creator of the recipe, in this case, Maria Thun. HC went on to say that anyone who wanted to stir for 12 minutes should invest the remaining time in praying. (I don't think HC meant this remark to be taken facetiously.) He also pointed out that others, all though they stirred for the full 20 minutes, may want to invest several times that amount of time in praying. (I don't think this last remark was targeted at me! :-) Just some more stuff to think about. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 11:51:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14407 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:51:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29704; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:43:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29097 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:41:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.184] (pm3shep4-163-201.intrepid.net [209.190.163.201]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26869 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:42:58 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:44:10 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Radon (?) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 536 Hi! Friends are looking to buy a house outside of Philadelphia. They are concerned about RADON since their elderly mother will be in the house. I confess, RADON is one of the enviromental threats that I have not thought much about in the last decade. If you know how best to research the purchase of a new dwelling to avoid RADON dangers or have other information (or know who would have such information) please contact me through the list or via personal mail. Thanks -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 12:33:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16172 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:33:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA07146; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:25:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA06682 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:23:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:23:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902191723.MAA06682@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 19531 invoked from network); 19 Feb 1999 17:23:12 -0000 Received: from i48-24-39.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO DAVE) (216.26.7.231) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 1999 17:23:12 -0000 X-Sender: drobison@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Dave Robison Subject: OFF: GE Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 537 =======================Electronic Edition======================== . . . RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #638 . . ---February 18, 1999--- . . HEADLINES: . . AGAINST THE GRAIN, PART 2 . . ========== . . Environmental Research Foundation . . P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403 . . Fax (410) 263-8944; E-mail: erf@rachel.org . . ========== . . All back issues are available by E-mail: send E-mail to . . info@rachel.org with the single word HELP in the message. . . Back issues are also available from http://www.rachel.org. . . To start your own free subscription, send E-mail to . . listserv@rachel.org with the words . . SUBSCRIBE RACHEL-WEEKLY YOUR NAME in the message. . ================================================================= AGAINST THE GRAIN, PART 2 The corporations that are introducing genetically modified crops into the global ecosystem want you to think of genetic engineering as a well-understood science similar to laparascopic surgery. Indeed, the phrase "genetic engineering" gives the impression that moving genes from one organism to another is as straightforward as designing a rocket or a TV set. This is not the case. Basically, a plant's genome (all of its genes, taken together) is a black box. Genetic engineering takes a gene from one black box and forces it into a second black box (the recipient plant), hoping that the new gene will "take." Most of the time, the experiment fails.[1] Once in a few thousand tries, the foreign gene embeds itself in the recipient plant's genome and the newly-modified plant gains the desired trait. But that is all the technicians know. They have no idea where in the receiving plant's genome the new gene has found a home. This fundamental ignorance, combined with the speed and scale at which modified organisms are being released into the global ecosystem, raises a host of questions of safety for the future of agriculture, for the environment, and for human health. ** To begin with, genes don't necessarily control a single trait. A gene may control several different traits in a plant. Without careful study, plants with undesirable characteristics may be released into the global ecosystem. And biotechnology is not like a chemical spill that can be mopped up -- once you release a new gene sequence into nature, your grandchildren are going to be living with it because there's no taking it back. ** How a gene affects a plant depends upon the environment. The same gene can have different effects, depending on the environment in which the new plant is growing.[2] What appears predictable and safe after a few years of observation of a small test plot may turn out to have quite different consequences when introduced into millions of acres of croplands in the U.S. and elsewhere, where conditions vary widely. ** Does the new gene destabilize the entire plant genome in some unforeseen way, leading one day to problems in that crop? Only time will tell. ** Genes can travel to nearby, related plants on their own. This is called gene flow. In 1996 gene flow was discovered to be much more common that previously thought.[3] According to SCIENCE magazine, many ecologists say it is only a matter of time before an engineered gene makes the leap to a weedy species, this creating a new weed or invigorating an old one. "It will probably happen in far less than 1% of the products," warns ecological geneticist Norm Ellstrand of the University of California at Riverside, "but within 10 years we will have a moderate-to-large scale ecological or economic catastrophe, because there will be so many [genetically modified] products being released,"[3] Ellstrand predicts. It is worth noting that U.S. farmers already spend $4.3 billion purchasing 628 million pounds of herbicides (active ingredients only) to control weeds.[4,pg.32] The Congressional Office of Technology Assessment (OTA) recommended that all genetically modified plants should be considered non-indigenous exotic species, with the power to disrupt ecosystems.[4,pg.29] Non-indigenous, introduced species have provided great benefits to humanity (most of U.S. agriculture relies on introduced species), but we also should learn from kudzu, purple loosestrife, the gypsy moth, the fire ant, and the boll weevil that exotic species can be extremely disruptive and very expensive to control (if indeed they can be controlled at all). ** A public health disaster was narrowly averted in 1996 when a group of researchers tried to improve soybeans by giving them a gene from the Brazil nut.[5] The goal was to improve the nutritional value of soybeans by forcing them to produce more methionine, an essential amino acid. The gene from the Brazil nut was successfully transferred to soybeans. After this had been accomplished, but before the soybeans were sold commercially, independent researchers tested the soybeans to see if it would cause allergic reactions in people. Many people are allergic to nuts, particularly Brazil nuts. In some people, allergic reaction to Brazil nuts is swift and fatal. A series of laboratory tests on humans confirmed that the genetically modified soybeans did provoke Brazil-nut allergy in humans. They could not feed the genetically modified soybeans to people for fear of killing them, but through scratch tests on skin, they confirmed unequivocally that people allergic to Brazil nuts were allergic to the modified soybeans. In discussing their findings in the NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE, the researchers pointed out that tests on laboratory animals will not necessarily discover allergic reactions to genetically modified organisms. Only tests on humans will suffice. U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) only requires testing for allergic reactions if a gene is being taken from a source that is already known to cause allergic reactions in humans. Many genes are being taken now from bacteria and other life-forms whose allergenicity is entirely unknown, so federal regulations require no allergy testing in these cases. This reduces regulatory costs for the corporations, but leaves the public unprotected. ** Crops are being genetically modified chiefly as a way to sell more pesticides. [See REHW #637.] In some cases, the modified crops change the pesticides themselves, giving them new toxicity. The herbicide bromoxynil falls into this category.[1,pg.41] Bromoxynil is already recognized by U.S. EPA [Environmental Protection Agency] as a possible carcinogen and as a teratogen (i.e., it causes birth defects). Calgene (now owned by Monsanto) developed a strain of cotton plants (called BXN Cotton) that can withstand direct spraying with bromoxynil. Unfortunately, the bromoxynil-resistant gene in cotton modifies the bromoxynil, turning it into a chemical byproduct called DBHA, which is at least as toxic as bromoxynil itself. Although humans do not eat cotton, traditional silage for cattle contains up to 50% cotton slash, gin mill leavings, and cotton debris. Both bromoxynil and DBHA are fat-soluble, so they can accumulate in the fat of animals. Therefore, it is likely that DBHA will make its way into the human food chain through meat. Furthermore, cotton seed oil is widely used as a direct human food and as a cooking additive. In licensing bromoxynil for use on Monsanto's genetically modified BXN Cotton, EPA conducted a risk assessment that assumed bromoxynil and DBHA had no way to enter the human food chain. Lastly, cotton dust -- the cause of brown lung disease -- will now carry the added hazard of bromoxynil and DBHA, another danger that EPA has disregarded. Thus genetic engineering -- which is being promoted as a technology that will reduce the perils of pesticides -- will in some instances increase them. In rats and in rabbits, bromoxynil causes serious birth defects, including changes in the bones of the spine and skull, and hydrocephaly ("water on the brain"). These birth defects appear in offspring at doses of bromoxynil that are not toxic to the mother. Despite these findings, and despite a law (the Food Quality Protection Act of 1996) that explicity gives EPA the power to reduce exposure standards to protect infants, EPA in 1997 declined to require a special safety factor to protect children from bromoxynil. Lastly, when EPA added up the cancer-causing potential of bromoxynil, they found it to be 2.7 per million, and they promptly declared this to be "well within" the one-in-a-million regulatory limit.[1,pg.46] Is 2.7 less than one? By all appearances, EPA is more interested in protecting Monsanto's investment in this new technology than in protecting public health. ** Because genetically-engineered soybeans will be doused with increased quantities of herbicides, such as Roundup (glyphosate), soybeans and soy products will carry increased chemical residues. Infants who must be reared on soy milk, because they cannot tolerate lactose in regular milk, will be at special hazard. ** Crops that are genetically modified to resist herbicides detoxify the herbicides by producing proteins, which will be incorporated into our food with unknown results.[1,pg.143] ** When crops are genetically modified to incorporate the naturally-occurring Bt toxin into their cells (see REHW #636), those Bt toxins will be incorporated into foods made from those crops. What will be the effect of these toxins and gene products on the bacteria and other organisms (the so-called microflora) that live in the human digestive tract? Time will tell. ** The "life sciences" companies have big plans for turning agricultural crops into "factories" for producing pharmaceuticals and specialty chemicals in open fields. They plan to manufacture vaccines, drugs, detergents, enzymes and other chemicals by putting the right genes into the right plants. The net effect of all this will be to expose soil insects and microorganisms, foraging and burrowing animals, seed-eating birds, and a myriad of other non-target organisms to these chemicals and to the gene products that make them. The Union of Concerned Scientists says, "Herbivores will consume the chemicals as they feed on plants. Soil microbes, insects, and worms will be exposed as they degrade plant debris. Aquatic organisms will confront the drugs and chemicals washed into streams, lakes, and rivers from fields."[4,pg.6] ** Most fundamentally, genetically-engineered crops substitute human wisdom for the wisdom of nature. As genetically-engineered crops are planted on tens of millions of acres, the diversity of our agricultural systems is being further diminished. Do we know enough to select the "right" combination of genes to assure the stable, long-term yield of our agricultural systems? Our recent experiences with PCBs, CFCs, DDT, Agent Orange, and global warming should give us pause. Genetic engineering is by far the most powerful technology humans have ever discovered, and it is being deployed by the same corporations that, historically, have produced one large-scale calamity after another. Is there any good reason to think things will be different this time? ========== [1] Marc Lappe and Britt Bailey, AGAINST THE GRAIN; BIOTECHNOLOGY AND THE CORPORATE TAKEOVER OF YOUR FOOD [ISBN 1567511503] (Monroe, Maine: Common Courage Press, 1998). Available from Common Courage Press, P.O. Box 207, Monroe, ME 04951. Tel. (207) 525-0900 or (800) 497-3207. [2] Craig Holdrege, GENETICS AND THE MANIPULATION OF LIFE: THE FORGOTTEN FACTOR OF CONTEXT (Hudson, N.Y.: Lindisfarne Press, 1996). ISBN 0-940262-77-0. Available from Lindisfarne Press, RR4 Box 94 A-1, Hudson, NY 12534. [3] James Kling, "Could Transgenic Supercrops One Day Breed Superweeds?" SCIENCE Vol. 274 (October 11, 1996), pgs. 180-181. [4] Jane Rissler and Margaret Mellon, THE ECOLOGICAL RISKS OF ENGINEERED CROPS (Cambridge, Massachusetts: MIT Press, 1996). [5] Julie A. Nordlee and others, "Identification of a Brazil-nut Allergen in Transgenic Soybeans," NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE Vol. 334, No. 11 (March 14, 1996), pgs. 688-692. Descriptor terms: agriculture; biotechnology; genetic engineering; regulation; epa; food safety; food security; pesticides; bt; glyphosate; roundup; monsanto; bromoxynil; dbha; herbicides; allergens; bxn cotton; soybeans; ################################################################ NOTICE Environmental Research Foundation provides this electronic version of RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY free of charge even though it costs our organization considerable time and money to produce it. We would like to continue to provide this service free. You could help by making a tax-deductible contribution (anything you can afford, whether $5.00 or $500.00). Please send your tax-deductible contribution to: Environmental Research Foundation, P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403-7036. Please do not send credit card information via E-mail. For further information about making tax-deductible contributions to E.R.F. by credit card please phone us toll free at 1-888-2RACHEL, or at (410) 263-1584, or fax us at (410) 263-8944. --Peter Montague, Editor ################################################################ ================== Dave Robison Stellar Processes From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 15:12:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20431 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:12:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA02540; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from quark.pioneernet.net (pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10165 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:40:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902191740.MAA10165@envirolink.org> Received: from jan (b28.pioneernet.net [208.240.197.28]) by quark.pioneernet.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id F2DA1S13; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:41:53 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "jan stettler" To: Subject: Re: GEO Consensus: Reading Rachel`` Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:17:10 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 538 Dear Woody, I once had a typical knee-jerk response to genetic engineering. It was a wolf in sheep's clothing, a Frankenstein monster waiting to do its due on the stupid townspeople. That was until I heard Dr. Alan Kapuler lecture, and began reading his Peace Seeds Research Journals. It isn't difficult to rail against Bt- potatoes and a Montesano conspiracy. Conventional farmers operate on such a slender margin as it is...maybe $100 per acre on potatoes, I can't help but wonder whether this will be the case where the marketplace will triumph. Dr. Kapuler, an intellectual ancestor of Luther Burbank, offers an alternative vision of bioengineering. He suggests huge garden beds producing food in the ocean. He posits that peace on earth can only be accomplished when plants don't have to perish to produce food, therefore he speculates about the conversion of annual and biannual plants to perenials. He dotes on completing the amino acid profile on crops to effectively feed more of the planets population. Of equal facination to me, he suggests that there's no reason not to grow snap beans that taste like french fries! I like the flavor of snap beans just as they are, but would certainly like to sign up to grow the ones that taste llike French fries! The bottom line is, bioengineering, not withstanding as it appears currently, maybe equivalent for better or worse, to the discovery of the New World historically. I met Dr. Kapuler once, Allan B., has talked to him at greater length. Perhaps Allan can be persuaded to have Dr. Kapuler join the discussion? In that way I think our response will be less reactionary. Tony Stettler ---------- > From: Woody Wodraska > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: GEO Consensus: Reading Rachel`` > Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 4:43 AM > > List folk: > > For those who don't feel particularly informed about GE issues in order to > comment on this thread for Steven McF's compilation, I'm attaching two text > reports by Peter Montague entitled "Against the Grain," which provide a > solid grounding about the issues. Montague writes a weekly report called > Rachel's Environmental and Health Weekly [for Rachel Carson] I hope this > violation of the attachment rule will be forgiven... > > Woody > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 15:14:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20493 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:14:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA03274; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:04:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25237 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:18:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.184] (pm3shep1-163-59.intrepid.net [209.190.163.59]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA24295 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:20:15 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:21:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Fw: Avery's Lies About Organic Food Exposed in New York Times Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 539 -----Original Message----- From: Kai Siedenburg To: casawg@igc.org Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 9:18 AM Subject: Avery's Lies About Organic Food Exposed in New York Times >Forwarded message >------------------ >Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:01:58 -0800 >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, twittman@aol.com, msligh@rafiusa.net, > merrigan@access.digex.net, wsaa@igc.apc.org, mmellon@ucsusa.org, > campaign@magiccarpet.com >From: Mark Lipson >Subject: Avery's Lies Exposed >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > >FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES >February 17, 1999, Wednesday > Dining In, Dining Out/Style Desk > > > > > EATING WELL; Anti-Organic, And Flawed > > > By Marian Burros > > DENNIS T. AVERY wants organic food to go away. And he doesn't >care what it takes. Four years ago, he said that organic food could > not feed the world without destroying the environment. Now, he >says it's lethal. > > In an article in the fall issue of American Outlook magazine, >published by his employer, the Hudson Institute, a conservative research > group, Mr. Avery wrote, ''Organic foods have clearly become the >deadliest food choice.'' This is the case, he said, because organic farms > use animal manure and do not use chemicals or permit >pasteurization. The last assertion is untrue, as were several other >statements in the > article. > > > The accusation might have gone unnoticed, but excerpts from the >article were published in The Wall Street Journal and continue to be > picked up around the country, by The Associated Press, The Tampa >Tribune and trade industry publications. > > The simplest definition of ''organic'' is food grown without >hormones, pesticides or synthetic fertilizers. But Mr. Avery, whose work is > financed by agribusiness, used the terms ''organic,'' ''free >range,'' ''natural'' and ''unpasteurized'' interchangeably. > > ''I grant you that I've mixed together natural and organic,'' Mr. >Avery, the author of ''Saving the Planet With Pesticides and Plastic'' > (Hudson Institute, 1995), said in an interview last week. ''But >to me they are distinctions without significant difference in terms of public > health.'' > > His most combative accusation is based on his reading of 1996 >data compiled by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, > showing, he said, that ''people who eat organic and 'natural' >foods are eight times as likely as the rest of the population to be >attacked by a > deadly new strain of E. coli bacteria (O157:H7).'' > > Yet, some of the foods that caused the outbreak, which he called >organic, were not, like unpasteurized Odwalla apple juice. > > Mr. Avery's claim that ''consumers of organic food are also more >likely to be attacked by a relatively new, more virulent strain of the > infamous salmonella bacteria'' was based on a Consumers Union >study in 1998 showing that ''premium'' chickens had higher levels of > salmonella than regular supermarket chickens. But the premium >chickens were not organic. > > In the article, Mr. Avery took the Food and Drug Administration >to task for failing ''to issue any warnings to consumers about the higher > levels of natural toxins their researchers regularly find in >organic foods.'' In the interview, he said that that assertion was based on a > statement by Dr. Robert Lake, an official in the agency's Center >for Food Safety and Nutrition. > > Dr. Lake denied making such a statement, saying, ''We don't go >out of our way to sample organic food, and hence I don't think we are in > a position to say anything one way or another about it.'' > > Mr. Avery wrote that because ''organic farmers use animal manure >as the major source of fertilizer,'' there are higher levels of harmful > bacteria in organic food. Katherine DiMatteo, the executive >director of the Organic Trade Association, said that manure is not the major > source of fertilizer on organic farms (it is also used in >conventional farming) and that when it is used, certain rules must be >followed for > safety. > > Mr. Avery said he had never ''bothered that much about consumer >safety aspects of organic food until O157:H7.'' His goal, he continued, > is to prevent organic agriculture from becoming the norm. ''My >big concern is that we do not have room on the planet to feed ourselves > organically,'' he added. > > The attack on organic food by a well-financed research >organization suggests that, though organic food accounts for only 1 percent of > food sales in the United States, the conventional food industry >is worried. > > >Organic Farming Research Foundation >Mark Lipson, Policy Program Coordinator >ph: 831-426-4006 or -6606; fax: 831-426-6670 >PO Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 16:06:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA21847 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:06:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA02941; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:03:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd99.hotmail.com [207.82.252.163]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA17455 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:25:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 26539 invoked by uid 0); 19 Feb 1999 18:26:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990219182624.26538.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:26:23 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Radon (?) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:26:23 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 540 Allan, >From my understanding of "Radon", it is a product of decomposition of metamorphic rock. One rock type in particular is Granite. I have in the past found at the USGS website detailed maps delineating Radon gas emmisions from soil. For example; the upper part of SC is composed of rotting granite and therefore has high emmisions. I give the definition as I understand it to shed some light on the fact that they must have an understanding of the underlying rock strata. There are warning devices available for home use to warn of excelleration radon emmission. A thorough search of the web should yeild at least a source where one could purchase it. Other than that the only other thing left to do is to find a dowser familiar with the area. Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 16:47:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org ([208.195.208.7] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA22930 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:47:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA03439; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:05:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from yancey.main.nc.us (yancey.main.nc.us [208.133.41.194]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00422 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:50:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (ppp17.yancey.main.nc.us [208.133.41.211]) by yancey.main.nc.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA28056 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:51:32 -0500 Message-ID: <003701be5c40$35819660$d32985d0@default> From: "donnas" To: Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds / My Input Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:43:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 541 I am new to this list but I'll put in my 2 cents! I think we should not only be writing to Johnny's, but perhaps to : Catherine Woteki Undersecretary of Agriculture for Food Safety Food Safety and Inspection Service Room 1175-S 1400 Independence Ave. SW Washington , DC 20250-3700 and Secretary of Agriculture, Glickman USDA 14th and Independence Ave. SW Washington, DC 20250 as well as the head of the FDA and EPA and Vice President, Al Gore , who considers himself as an environmentalist and undoubtedly will be running for public office. as well as all of your local, state and federal legislators, and any publication that has editorial space....... ordinary folks don't have any idea what is going on, how they are being deprived of choice, how Natural Law is being corrupted, and how the food supply is being dangerously manipulated in ways that could very well affect their health and well being. regards to all, donaterra From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 17:02:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA23261 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:02:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA03109; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:04:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd95.hotmail.com [207.82.252.159]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA21564 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 20512 invoked by uid 0); 19 Feb 1999 18:55:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19990219185545.20511.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:55:44 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Stirring Barrel Compost Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:55:44 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 542 Dear Allan, Is that to say that some farms are more sensitive than others? I have only been at this practice for one year now and am able to see how our farm is beginning to become responsive. Although we look at an organism with its own particular membrane, does the organism also respond to the changes to environment outside of its' own domain? Does this mean that the more developed farm organisms are able to attract to them the resources that it needs?(I hope these aren't too many questions.) I would like to suggest that the primary purpose here is focus. Stirring itself can be a strenuous task. With the tensioning of muscles we also engage cerebrial matter in the task, to bring to the stirring a sense of purpose, goals for the farm, and good wishes. This brings to my mind the saying; "Slow Down to Hurry Up" and the old childrens' story of the "Tortise and the Haire". Sincerely, Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 18:09:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24481 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:09:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA26329; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:01:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA26096 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.184] (pm3shep2-163-70.intrepid.net [209.190.163.70]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03613 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:01:45 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:55:43 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Johnny's GE Seeds / My Input Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 543 Yes, Donna, I agree, If you can send, email, contact etc. many other people and also groups, by all means, do it. Regards Ferdinand donnas wrote: > I am new to this list but I'll put in my 2 cents! > I think we should not only be writing to Johnny's, but perhaps to : > > Catherine Woteki > Undersecretary of Agriculture for Food Safety > Food Safety and Inspection Service > Room 1175-S > 1400 Independence Ave. SW > Washington , DC 20250-3700 > > and > Secretary of Agriculture, Glickman > USDA > 14th and Independence Ave. SW > Washington, DC 20250 > > as well as the head of the FDA and EPA > > and Vice President, Al Gore , > who considers himself as an environmentalist and undoubtedly will be running > for public office. > > as well as all of your local, state and federal legislators, and any > publication that has editorial space....... ordinary folks don't have any > idea what is going on, how they are being deprived of choice, how Natural > Law is being corrupted, and how the food supply is being dangerously > manipulated in ways that could very well affect their health and well being. > regards to all, > donaterra From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 18:10:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24501 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA26394; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:01:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA26118 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:00:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.184] (pm3shep2-163-70.intrepid.net [209.190.163.70]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03626 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:01:48 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:56:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Fw: Avery's Lies About Organic Food Exposed in New York Times Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 544 Is there no way to get this man's email address and to communicat with him? Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai Siedenburg > To: casawg@igc.org > Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 9:18 AM > Subject: Avery's Lies About Organic Food Exposed in New York Times > > >Forwarded message > >------------------ > >Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:01:58 -0800 > >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, twittman@aol.com, msligh@rafiusa.net, > > merrigan@access.digex.net, wsaa@igc.apc.org, mmellon@ucsusa.org, > > campaign@magiccarpet.com > >From: Mark Lipson > >Subject: Avery's Lies Exposed > >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > > > > >FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES > >February 17, 1999, Wednesday > > Dining In, Dining Out/Style Desk > > > > > > > > > > EATING WELL; Anti-Organic, And Flawed > > > > > > By Marian Burros > > > > DENNIS T. AVERY wants organic food to go away. And he doesn't > >care what it takes. Four years ago, he said that organic food could > > not feed the world without destroying the environment. Now, he > >says it's lethal. > > > > In an article in the fall issue of American Outlook magazine, > >published by his employer, the Hudson Institute, a conservative research > > group, Mr. Avery wrote, ''Organic foods have clearly become the > >deadliest food choice.'' This is the case, he said, because organic farms > > use animal manure and do not use chemicals or permit > >pasteurization. The last assertion is untrue, as were several other > >statements in the > > article. > > > > > > The accusation might have gone unnoticed, but excerpts from the > >article were published in The Wall Street Journal and continue to be > > picked up around the country, by The Associated Press, The Tampa > >Tribune and trade industry publications. > > > > The simplest definition of ''organic'' is food grown without > >hormones, pesticides or synthetic fertilizers. But Mr. Avery, whose work is > > financed by agribusiness, used the terms ''organic,'' ''free > >range,'' ''natural'' and ''unpasteurized'' interchangeably. > > > > ''I grant you that I've mixed together natural and organic,'' Mr. > >Avery, the author of ''Saving the Planet With Pesticides and Plastic'' > > (Hudson Institute, 1995), said in an interview last week. ''But > >to me they are distinctions without significant difference in terms of > public > > health.'' > > > > His most combative accusation is based on his reading of 1996 > >data compiled by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, > > showing, he said, that ''people who eat organic and 'natural' > >foods are eight times as likely as the rest of the population to be > >attacked by a > > deadly new strain of E. coli bacteria (O157:H7).'' > > > > Yet, some of the foods that caused the outbreak, which he called > >organic, were not, like unpasteurized Odwalla apple juice. > > > > Mr. Avery's claim that ''consumers of organic food are also more > >likely to be attacked by a relatively new, more virulent strain of the > > infamous salmonella bacteria'' was based on a Consumers Union > >study in 1998 showing that ''premium'' chickens had higher levels of > > salmonella than regular supermarket chickens. But the premium > >chickens were not organic. > > > > In the article, Mr. Avery took the Food and Drug Administration > >to task for failing ''to issue any warnings to consumers about the higher > > levels of natural toxins their researchers regularly find in > >organic foods.'' In the interview, he said that that assertion was based on > a > > statement by Dr. Robert Lake, an official in the agency's Center > >for Food Safety and Nutrition. > > > > Dr. Lake denied making such a statement, saying, ''We don't go > >out of our way to sample organic food, and hence I don't think we are in > > a position to say anything one way or another about it.'' > > > > Mr. Avery wrote that because ''organic farmers use animal manure > >as the major source of fertilizer,'' there are higher levels of harmful > > bacteria in organic food. Katherine DiMatteo, the executive > >director of the Organic Trade Association, said that manure is not the > major > > source of fertilizer on organic farms (it is also used in > >conventional farming) and that when it is used, certain rules must be > >followed for > > safety. > > > > Mr. Avery said he had never ''bothered that much about consumer > >safety aspects of organic food until O157:H7.'' His goal, he continued, > > is to prevent organic agriculture from becoming the norm. ''My > >big concern is that we do not have room on the planet to feed ourselves > > organically,'' he added. > > > > The attack on organic food by a well-financed research > >organization suggests that, though organic food accounts for only 1 percent > of > > food sales in the United States, the conventional food industry > >is worried. > > > > > >Organic Farming Research Foundation > >Mark Lipson, Policy Program Coordinator > >ph: 831-426-4006 or -6606; fax: 831-426-6670 > >PO Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 18:10:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24511 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:10:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA26464; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:02:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA26167 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:00:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.184] (pm3shep2-163-70.intrepid.net [209.190.163.70]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03658 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:01:56 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:57:07 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: essential oils Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 545 Dear Martha, Feeding bees (whatever) is a real problem for the beekeeper. Bees meet each other from various hives and infect each other with Varoa etc. etc. When I was living in town, my bees flew to the bakery (it is easy to trace them if you spray a few with flour or other dyes that are not harmful) and brought back sugar (I would assume but also foulbrood, I would assume). One thing that helps this foulbrood passing on, I feed my bees garlic in March (soon). More info for those who want it. So, bees, in my opinion. should really collect what is out there and nothing that is fed (artificially or naturally). sometimes, a hive has to be fed because it is a swarm (was swarming) and is weak (or what have you). I do avoid any additions such as EOs or what have you. I feed them a special tea (see Agriculture of Tomorrow) which, (when you make a Chromatogram) comes very close to honey. I believe that anything that is added to honey (if needed) should be added AFTER the honey has been extracted. Bees are under such immense strain that we must keep them as clean and natural as possible. Regards Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > Last week someone (Allan?) asked about essential oils and honey. > I work with EO's a lot but lack the honey experience. I'm unsure about the > questions, would you be putting eo's into simple syrup and letting the bees > steal it for making stronger fragrances in their honey production? (Now, > that would be an interesting experiment!) Which do the bees avoid? Which do > they crave, and what is the scent like in the honey? Does it hold up well? > Does it overpower any food it's used in? I use honey a lot in bread making > and the implications are very interesting. > Would you be adding it to the honey itself after collection? > All EO's have different properties, and I'd think honey would be too > strong, and probably break down many of them unless the bees built it into > the honey themselves. > And I'd start out using essential oils from flowers that are known to be > pleasing to the bees. (lavender, chamomile, borage, etc.) > martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 18:10:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24519 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:10:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA26542; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:02:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA26178 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:00:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.184] (pm3shep2-163-70.intrepid.net [209.190.163.70]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03664 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:02:00 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:57:33 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: [Fwd: Who is a Christian, who?] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id SAA26179 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 546 Message-ID: <36C86DB7.2FC8B3CF@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:55:51 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Who is a Christian, who? References: <1.5.4.32.19990215152936.03715e80@mail.metro.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, well, well. So be it. Love Ferdinand Chris & Tanya Bowland wrote: > At 11:40 PM 2/14/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Dear Martin, > >What is a Christian? > > > >Well, if I understand Dr. Steiner right, he says that a Christian is a > person who > >completely understands, appreciates and loves ALL religions. > > Ferdinand, > > Then I hope that you are misunderstanding Steiner. "Christian" comes to us > from the very early first century, and was a term that others used(sometimes > disparagingly) to refer to those who followed the teachings of Jesus Christ > as preached by the apostles. Certainly at the heart of Christ's Gospel was > to love ALL people, which to me includes respecting others' beliefs. One > does not have to completely understand anything to be a follower of Christ; > in fact, He said that faith was the only requirement to following Him. > > >A Christian is the synthesis of all what has come to us. > > Christ said that He is the synthesis of all which(and whom) have come to us. > > >It will take a long, long time before we see the first Christians on this > Earth, my friend. > > I agree with your sentiment. Becoming more Christ-like is a lifelong >journey. > > -Chris > > >Regards Ferdinand > > > >Martin Nyberg wrote: > > > >> I am not so sure these words are "so true" Alison. If I remember > correctly, Steiner > >> was not a Christian but founded "Theosophy" which is based upon the > philosophy of > >> Buddhism, much more so that Christianity. I am a Buddhist (for 24 > years), and can find > >> "borrowed Buddhism" throughout Theosophical cosmology. I am not prepared > to expound on > >> this, but I am quite convinced of it. > >> > >> Martin Nyberg > >> > >> ALISON EADES wrote: > >> > >> > These words are so true. Thank you Todd for bringing them here. > >> > > >> > Alison > >> > > >> > Todd Powell wrote: > >> > > >> > > Let's remember to meditate first on the One who created Rudolph >Steiner: > >> > > > >> > > A thought on Y2K from John Piper, a pastor in the Twin Cities area. > >> > > > >> > > Do you want a prophetic word about Y2K? I have two prophetic words >about > >> > > Y2K. > >> > > First, the greatest need on January 1, 2000, will not be > basements stocked > >> > > with food and water and generators, but hearts stocked with the >Word of > >> > > God. You will be fruitful, you will flourish, you will be >life-giving not > >> > > by seeking the very things the world seeks (Matthew 6:32), but by > >> > > delighting in the Word of God and meditating on it day and night. > What the > >> > > world will need and does need from the church is the Word of God that > fits > >> > > us to say, "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will > tribulation, > >> > > or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or >sword? > >> > > In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who >loved us. > >> > > (Romans 8:35-37) > >> > > The other prophetic word about Y2K is this: Nothing is going > to happen on > >> > > January 1, 2000; nothing, that is as bad as what is already >happening to > >> > > persecuted and starving Christians in Sudan. Or the the staggering >number > >> > > of orphans in Malawi and other AIDS devastated countries of >Africa. Or to > >> > > survivors in Honduras and Nicaragua. Or to lonely, dying old people in > >> > > dozens of skilled care centers around the Twin Cities who have >outlived > >> > > their families. There is something that smells of hypocrisy in the >talk > >> > > about stockpiling supplies in our home to "minister" to others in the > >> > > coming Y2K crisis when there are more places to minister this very > day that > >> > > are in worse crisis than anything that is going to happen a year from > now. > >> > > Y2K will happen to someone every day in 1999--many of them within your > >> > > reach. Delight yourself in the Word of God, meditate on it day and >night, > >> > > and then take the fruit of your life and go minister to the lost >and the > >> > > hungry and the thirsty that are already so many. Then you won't even > notice > >> > > when Y2K happens. > >> > > Copyright John Piper. You are permitted and encouraged to > reproduce and > >> > > distribute this material in any format provided that: (1) you >credit the > >> > > author, (2) any modifications are clearly marked, (3) you do not >charge a > >> > > fee beyond the cost of reproductions, and (4) you do not make more >than > >> > > 1,000 copies. If you would like to post this material to the web or > if your > >> > > intended use is other than outlined above, please contact Desiring God > >> > > Ministries, 720 13th Ave. South, Minneapolis, MN 55415 > >> > > > >> > > ---------- > >> > > > From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US > >> > > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > >> > > > Subject: Steiner Meditation Against Fear (for Y2K) > >> > > > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:48 PM > >> > > > > >> > > > Dear Friends on Bd-Now, > >> > > > I was recently having lunch here in NYC with some biodynamic farmer > >> > > friends > >> > > > from Virginia. We got around to discussing the millenium, > apocalypse and > >> > > > Y2K (between courses) and had lots to discuss. This is a >meditation he > >> > > sent > >> > > > to me when they returned home even though he was the one who > thought NYC > >> > > > would be wiped out by floods, and not I! > >> > > > > >> > > > Best Regards, > >> > > > Jane Sherry > >> > > > > >> > > > "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes > >> > > towards > >> > > > the > >> > > > human being out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all >feelings > >> > > and > >> > > > sensations about the future. > >> > > > > >> > > > We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may > >> > > come. > >> > > > And > >> > > > we must think only that whatever comes is given to us by a world > >> > > directive > >> > > > full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, > namely, to > >> > > > live > >> > > > out of pure trust, without any security in existence. Trust in >the ever > >> > > > present help of the spiritual world. > >> > > > > >> > > > Truely, nothing esle will do if our courage is not to fail us. > >> > > > And let us seek the awakening from within outselves, every >morning and > >> > > > evening." > >> > > >> > -- > >> > ?Ďࡱ > > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 19:18:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA25518 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:18:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04807; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:09:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04596 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:07:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:07:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902200007.TAA04596@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 14553 invoked from network); 20 Feb 1999 00:09:35 -0000 Received: from i48-32-27.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO DAVE) (216.26.60.155) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 1999 00:09:35 -0000 X-Sender: drobison@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Dave Robison Subject: Re: OFF: Radon (?) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 547 At 11:44 AM 2/19/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi! > >Friends are looking to buy a house outside of Philadelphia. They are >concerned about RADON since their elderly mother will be in the house. I >confess, RADON is one of the enviromental threats that I have not thought >much about in the last decade. > >If you know how best to research the purchase of a new dwelling to avoid >RADON dangers or have other information (or know who would have such >information) please contact me through the list or via personal mail. > >Thanks > Radon is an issue where soil has formed from rocks that have heavy metals in them, eg) granite. Since the Appalachians are the highly eroded bedrock of some old mountains, there could be problems. But its highly specific to what kind of rocks, gavel, etc. lie underneath the house. Around here, there are some areas sitting on basalt ridges that have a problem. Likewise other areas sitting on granite gravels from old river deposits. Then there are areas on silicious clay that have no problem. Usually the local Soil Conservation office, state geologist etc. will have a geologic map that deals with the issue. Its hard to predict but easy to test. There are a variety of radon test kits on the market -- they work okay but there is a key point. You want to test during the period when the house is at its worst -- fully battened up for the winter. Lots of the test kits don't emphsize this point -- if you test during the summer when windows are open, you wont be getting a worst-case reading. If there is radon, dealing with it can be a problem. If a crawl space under the house, insulate the floor and vent the crawl space. More likely you have a basement, then you may need extensive (expensive) retrofit to lay vent pipes under the floor and install a draft fan to suck the gases out. ================== Dave Robison Stellar Processes From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 19 20:14:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA26319 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:14:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA10322; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:06:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10112 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:03:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp6.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.106]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA28512 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:04:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <002501be5c6c$c6fdd5a0$6a4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Fw: Avery's Lies About Organic Food Exposed in New York Times Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:03:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 548 Hi Ferdy, I don't know if these folks would pass along your correspondence to him, but you can read all about Avery, even some of his articles appear at http://www.hudson.org/avery.htm . There are some email addresses listed at the Hudson site, but I didn't stay there too long hunting for it. I AM happy to see that The Wall Street Journal & NY Times are paying attention to the garbage he spews...I have a local farmer who's constantly citing the farming gospel according to Avery & its nice to see the guy being exposed for what he really is. Blechhh.... Julie M. PS. Hope you are out of the penalty box soon... >Is there no way to get this man's email address and to communicat with him? >Ferdinand >Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kai Siedenburg >> To: casawg@igc.org >> Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 9:18 AM >> Subject: Avery's Lies About Organic Food Exposed in New York Times >> >> >Forwarded message >> >------------------ >> >Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:01:58 -0800 >> >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, twittman@aol.com, msligh@rafiusa.net, >> > merrigan@access.digex.net, wsaa@igc.apc.org, mmellon@ucsusa.org, >> > campaign@magiccarpet.com >> >From: Mark Lipson >> >Subject: Avery's Lies Exposed >> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >> >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> > >> > >> >FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES >> >February 17, 1999, Wednesday >> > Dining In, Dining Out/Style Desk >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > EATING WELL; Anti-Organic, And Flawed >> > >> > >> > By Marian Burros >> > >> > DENNIS T. AVERY wants organic food to go away. And he doesn't >> >care what it takes. Four years ago, he said that organic food could >> > not feed the world without destroying the environment. Now, he >> >says it's lethal. >> > >> > In an article in the fall issue of American Outlook magazine, >> >published by his employer, the Hudson Institute, a conservative research >> > group, Mr. Avery wrote, ''Organic foods have clearly become the >> >deadliest food choice.'' This is the case, he said, because organic farms >> > use animal manure and do not use chemicals or permit >> >pasteurization. The last assertion is untrue, as were several other >> >statements in the >> > article. >> > >> > >> > The accusation might have gone unnoticed, but excerpts from the >> >article were published in The Wall Street Journal and continue to be >> > picked up around the country, by The Associated Press, The Tampa >> >Tribune and trade industry publications. >> > >> > The simplest definition of ''organic'' is food grown without >> >hormones, pesticides or synthetic fertilizers. But Mr. Avery, whose work is >> > financed by agribusiness, used the terms ''organic,'' ''free >> >range,'' ''natural'' and ''unpasteurized'' interchangeably. >> > >> > ''I grant you that I've mixed together natural and organic,'' Mr. >> >Avery, the author of ''Saving the Planet With Pesticides and Plastic'' >> > (Hudson Institute, 1995), said in an interview last week. ''But >> >to me they are distinctions without significant difference in terms of >> public >> > health.'' >> > >> > His most combative accusation is based on his reading of 1996 >> >data compiled by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, >> > showing, he said, that ''people who eat organic and 'natural' >> >foods are eight times as likely as the rest of the population to be >> >attacked by a >> > deadly new strain of E. coli bacteria (O157:H7).'' >> > >> > Yet, some of the foods that caused the outbreak, which he called >> >organic, were not, like unpasteurized Odwalla apple juice. >> > >> > Mr. Avery's claim that ''consumers of organic food are also more >> >likely to be attacked by a relatively new, more virulent strain of the >> > infamous salmonella bacteria'' was based on a Consumers Union >> >study in 1998 showing that ''premium'' chickens had higher levels of >> > salmonella than regular supermarket chickens. But the premium >> >chickens were not organic. >> > >> > In the article, Mr. Avery took the Food and Drug Administration >> >to task for failing ''to issue any warnings to consumers about the higher >> > levels of natural toxins their researchers regularly find in >> >organic foods.'' In the interview, he said that that assertion was based on >> a >> > statement by Dr. Robert Lake, an official in the agency's Center >> >for Food Safety and Nutrition. >> > >> > Dr. Lake denied making such a statement, saying, ''We don't go >> >out of our way to sample organic food, and hence I don't think we are in >> > a position to say anything one way or another about it.'' >> > >> > Mr. Avery wrote that because ''organic farmers use animal manure >> >as the major source of fertilizer,'' there are higher levels of harmful >> > bacteria in organic food. Katherine DiMatteo, the executive >> >director of the Organic Trade Association, said that manure is not the >> major >> > source of fertilizer on organic farms (it is also used in >> >conventional farming) and that when it is used, certain rules must be >> >followed for >> > safety. >> > >> > Mr. Avery said he had never ''bothered that much about consumer >> >safety aspects of organic food until O157:H7.'' His goal, he continued, >> > is to prevent organic agriculture from becoming the norm. ''My >> >big concern is that we do not have room on the planet to feed ourselves >> > organically,'' he added. >> > >> > The attack on organic food by a well-financed research >> >organization suggests that, though organic food accounts for only 1 percent >> of >> > food sales in the United States, the conventional food industry >> >is worried. >> > >> > >> >Organic Farming Research Foundation >> >Mark Lipson, Policy Program Coordinator >> >ph: 831-426-4006 or -6606; fax: 831-426-6670 >> >PO Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 >> > >> > >> > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 00:25:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA28949 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:25:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA06852; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06744 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:14:51 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BCQGa05514 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:16:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5c53d22c.36ce4519@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:16:09 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Heinz Grotzky, etc. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 549 Heinz and Ines Grotzke, PO Box 407, Wyoming, RI 02898. Phone: 401 539-7199 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 07:24:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA01673 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:24:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA25947; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:15:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA25879 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:14:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.184] (pm3shep4-163-190.intrepid.net [209.190.163.190]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02175 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:16:34 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:10:24 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Stirring Barrel Compost Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 550 Michael Smith wrote: > Dear Allan, > > temperments and because of the energies on some farm organisms that > there can be personal variance in how much stirring is appropriate for > that situation.> Well, both Hugh and I agree. > Is that to say that some farms are more sensitive than others? In a sense, yes. Soils are different AND it also depends for how long you have been working your farm BD and (really) many other factors, too. > I have > only been at this practice for one year now and am able to see how our > farm is beginning to become responsive. Although we look at an organism > with its own particular membrane, does the organism also respond to the > changes to environment outside of its' own domain? Absolutely. Steiner does indicate how the plants are fetching what they need from far, far away, doesn't he. And so, it is with many things in a farm organism.Does this mean that the more developed farm organisms are able toattract to them the resources that it needs?(I hope these aren't toomany questions.) Not at all, but that is exactly the truth. > invest the remaining time in praying. (I don't think HC meant this > remark to be taken facetiously.) He also pointed out that others, all > though they stirred for the full 20 minutes, may want to invest several > times that amount of time in praying.> > > I would like to suggest that the primary purpose here is focus. > Stirring itself can be a strenuous task. With the tensioning of muscles > we also engage cerebrial matter in the task, to bring to the stirring a > sense of purpose, goals for the farm, and good wishes. This brings to > my mind the saying; "Slow Down to Hurry Up" and the old childrens' story > of the "Tortise and the Haire". But., Michael, I (personally) never experience stirring as a strain. It is like walking - walking with an exciting companion. And, as U stir, you are really making time. Stiring is creating time, in truth! > > > Sincerely, > Michael. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 11:20:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA03439 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:20:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA08887; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:12:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.41]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08719 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:10:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.20.244]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990220161215.FPBD9358@default>; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:12:15 +0000 Message-ID: <36CEE172.6A15@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:23:14 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net Subject: Ferdy- Garlic For The Bees References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 551 Dear Ferdy, Would you please (at your convenience) forward your procedure and a brief of your observations with feeding Garlic to your bees for foulbrood? Many Thanks, Linda Ray ****************************************************************** Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > Dear Martha, > Feeding bees (whatever) is a real problem for the beekeeper. Bees meet each > other from various hives and infect each other with Varoa etc. etc. When I was > living in town, my bees flew to the bakery (it is easy to trace them if you > spray a few with flour or other dyes that are not harmful) and brought back > sugar (I would assume but also foulbrood, I would assume). One thing that helps > this foulbrood passing on, I feed my bees garlic in March (soon). More info for > those who want it. > > So, bees, in my opinion. should really collect what is out there and nothing > that is fed (artificially or naturally). sometimes, a hive has to be fed > because it is a swarm (was swarming) and is weak (or what have you). I do avoid > any additions such as EOs or what have you. I feed them a special tea (see > Agriculture of Tomorrow) which, (when you make a Chromatogram) comes very close > to honey. > > I believe that anything that is added to honey (if needed) should be added > AFTER the honey has been extracted. > > Bees are under such immense strain that we must keep them as clean and natural > as possible. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 12:02:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA04209 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:02:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA13304; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:54:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12956 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:50:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.88]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:02:46 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:52:52 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Seed List Message-ID: <70BA26373B72363C8525671E005B8769.005C600A8525671E@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 552 Dear Allan, Marlin Press, and Friends at BD-Now, Thank you for your efforts to bring together a comprehensive list of seed companies at the website. What an enormoust list! I realize this may be a work in progress, but as it is now, it isn't terribly useful in helping one decide from which company to order seed. For instance, which companies sell heirloom, open pollinated and non-hybrid seed? Which companies sell organic seed? Which seeds are untreated with fungicides? A quote from Mr. Hudson (Hudson seed) via the OGl list <<" "Our work is the preservation and dissemination of biodiversity, not the marketing of organic products.">> Good to know this when I go to order a catalogue from Mr. Hudson. So which company will most likely have seed from a plant my grandmother grew in her garden? How can I tell anything about business practices without first ordering seed or a catalogue to look at pricing? How can I know whether I am getting a fair exchange rate with overseas companies or from Canada if I am in the US? How can I know whether seed is guaranteed or not? How can I know whether or not these companies, like Johnny's will be carrying GE seed? It's nice you have url's posted by the companies that have websites, but for someone unexperienced or new to these companies how is one to choose the most sustainable company compatible with my ethics? Will any of this be available in the future? Say like a mini review of each company linked to each listing? Regards, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 12:04:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA04255 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:04:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA13606; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:57:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.150]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13516 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:56:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.18.111]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:58:23 +0000 Message-ID: <36CEEA31.7A8A@cwcom.net> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:00:33 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF - Re:Radon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 553 Allen - The structure of the house surely is also important ? I live in Gower, South Wales, which was stated to have the third highest incidence of radon in the British Isles (although much less than Aberdeen in Scotland, and in Cornwall); but older houses here are typically built on a solid pad (once just dirt, but now typically concrete over a waterproof membrane). In this case, radon just can't penetrate, so I'm not bothered. Modern houses, with a boarded floor supported over a cavity open to the soil below, can accumulate radon - it may be even worse if there's a cellar. I don't know what structures are like in the part of the USA which you're worried about. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 16:47:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08060 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:47:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA12449; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:39:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from www3.iname.net (www3.iname.net [165.251.12.23]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA12327 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:38:29 -0500 (EST) From: pamdetray@email.com Received: by www3.iname.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) id QAA27927 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99022016402026.18564@www3.iname.net> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:40:20 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Stirring Barrel Compost & a million questions Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 554 Dear Ferdinand, Regarding calendar indications for working with BC, I didn't just mean making the original batch. I meant stirring and using. When working with BC, are we working with ascending or descending energies? Thanks, Pam ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 17:01:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08169 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:01:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA14061; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:54:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from www3.iname.net (www3.iname.net [165.251.12.23]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA13790 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:51:32 -0500 (EST) From: pamdetray@email.com Received: by www3.iname.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) id QAA28640 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99022016532406.28117@www3.iname.net> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:53:24 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: stirring BC Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 555 Ferdinand, I forgot to say thanks very much for the information you posted! Pam ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 17:43:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08603 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:43:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA18562; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:35:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18257 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:33:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep3-163-152.intrepid.net [209.190.163.152]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01926 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:35:13 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:51:48 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Joel Salatin Event Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id RAA18262 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 556 Dear Food Systems Friends, Please share the following news release with any networks that you believe would be interested. Lititz PA is between Harrisburg and Lancaster PA. Apologies for any cross-postings of this event. With much appreciation, Suse Greenstone Creation Continues Educational Services IMMEDIATE RELEASE Farm Small and Prosper: Salatin to Tell How and Why LITITZ, Pa. -- Bringing his dynamic message of small-scale farming success to Lancaster County in March will be Joel Salatin, an innovative Virginia farmer who has launched hundreds of families into new and profitable on-farm enterprises. He also will share how his personal faith shapes how he stewards his land, relates to his customers, and supports a significant role for farmers in our society. Salatin will speak at afternoon and evening sessions on Saturday, March 27, at the Midway Mennonite Reception Center, 210 E. Lexington Road, Lititz. At 1 p.m., he will speak on "Starting Without Capital: Adding value to pasture to bridge farm generations." He will describe how to start up new, small livestock enterprises by cooperating with current farmers who have under-utilized pasture and crop land. He will explain how such an arrangement benefits both parties as it strengthens the economic and social life of the entire community. Salatin will join several other farmers in a "Faith and Farming Forum" later in the afternoon when forum members will describe how their Christian faith affects their farming choices. Sponsors hope to build a supportive network for farmers and others interested in faith-based farming, land use and regional food sharing for all people. A family-style meal of many locally produced foods will precede Salatin’s main evening presentation, "Farming With Values That Last." Salatin is a third-generation alternative farmer. He promotes food production that is environmentally, emotionally and economically enhancing for both producer and consumer. He has authored three books: Salad Bar Beef, Pastured Poultry Profits: Net $25,000 in 6 months on 20 acres, and his newest work, You Can Farm: The entrepreneur’s guide to start and succeed in a farming enterprise. He is a regular columnist for the Stockman Grass Farmer, an international publication for graziers. He helps farmers to find alternatives to "factory farm" jobs by telling how to produce healthy livestock on "pasture-based, animal friendly farms." He sounds these themes to farmers seeking new opportunities: "let animals do the work," "add value through marketing," "think diversity and multiple use" and "fully use your resources before buying anything." His 400 enthusiastic customers come to his farm to buy meat and produce. By building relationships and educating them about the way his family farms, he’s received many types of support and encouragement. He challenges food consumers by saying: "If you want an agriculture that does not pump animals full of drugs and hormones, pollute the water, erode the soil and stink up the air, vote with your pocketbook and quit patronizing the conventional food industry—seek out and support your local alternative farmer." Following Salatin’s afternoon presentation will be three mini-sessions under the heading "New Seeds, New Soil." First will be an explanation of how PA Farm Link works to assist farm owners to pass on their land and farming skills to new farmers. Lancaster County farmer Marion Bowlan of Rapho Township, a member of the Small Farm Commission, will show a new farm marketing video and describe efforts to keep single-family farms healthy and profitable. She is seeking church leadership to build connections between sustainable farmers, congregations and supportive consumers. Third session will be the faith/farming forum. Cost of the entire day is $20. A ticket for the meal and one of the speaking sessions (afternoon OR evening) is $15. A single Salatin session is $10. The "New Seeds, New Soil" mini-sessions are free. Salatin will have his books and videos for sale, and related book sources, ministries and businesses will be invited. For program details, contact Greg Bowman (215) 256-0364, gbowman@fast.net. For registration, contact Gail Ziegler at (610) 845-2293, ziggy@voicenet.com. Sponsor is the Food, Faith and Farming Initiative of the Franconia Mennonite Conference, Souderton, Pa., with PA Land Link, Inc., of Harrisburg, and Creation Continues Educational Services of Gettysburg. -- Greg Bowman Agro-ecological journalist 504 Main St. , P.O. Box 490 Bally PA 19503 610.845.2436 Communicating for whole farms...for whole communities...for the whole world. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 17:46:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08646 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:46:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA18990; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:38:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18662 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:36:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep3-163-152.intrepid.net [209.190.163.152]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02529 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:38:13 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:38:26 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: essential oils Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 557 Listfolk: This issue here that Allan was asking about is exposing bees to essential oils of the mint family as a preventative/cure for varroa mite infestation. Very promising work has been done by apiarists at West Virginia University, http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa 2.htm. Bees which forage in mint fields [wintergreen, peppermint, spearmint] seem to be more or less mite free. The oils are placed in the hives in very small amounts in such a way that the bees "track" the oils throughout the colony. The oils are not fed to the bees. The essential oil treatment is a non-approved, unofficial, close-to-Natural alternative to the miticide Apistan, which has proved to be a cash cow for the pharmaceutical house Wellmark International. The very widespread varroa problem is a symptom of the problems Rudolf Steiner predicted would result from industrialized, inhumane, beekeeping practices. Woody At 05:57 PM 2/19/99 -0500, you wrote: >Dear Martha, >Feeding bees (whatever) is a real problem for the beekeeper. Bees meet each >other from various hives and infect each other with Varoa etc. etc. When I was >living in town, my bees flew to the bakery (it is easy to trace them if you >spray a few with flour or other dyes that are not harmful) and brought back >sugar (I would assume but also foulbrood, I would assume). One thing that helps >this foulbrood passing on, I feed my bees garlic in March (soon). More info for >those who want it. > >So, bees, in my opinion. should really collect what is out there and nothing >that is fed (artificially or naturally). sometimes, a hive has to be fed >because it is a swarm (was swarming) and is weak (or what have you). I do avoid >any additions such as EOs or what have you. I feed them a special tea (see >Agriculture of Tomorrow) which, (when you make a Chromatogram) comes very close >to honey. > >I believe that anything that is added to honey (if needed) should be added >AFTER the honey has been extracted. > >Bees are under such immense strain that we must keep them as clean and natural >as possible. Regards Ferdinand > >Martha Wells wrote: > >> Last week someone (Allan?) asked about essential oils and honey. >> I work with EO's a lot but lack the honey experience. I'm unsure about the >> questions, would you be putting eo's into simple syrup and letting the bees >> steal it for making stronger fragrances in their honey production? (Now, >> that would be an interesting experiment!) Which do the bees avoid? Which do >> they crave, and what is the scent like in the honey? Does it hold up well? >> Does it overpower any food it's used in? I use honey a lot in bread making >> and the implications are very interesting. >> Would you be adding it to the honey itself after collection? >> All EO's have different properties, and I'd think honey would be too >> strong, and probably break down many of them unless the bees built it into >> the honey themselves. >> And I'd start out using essential oils from flowers that are known to be >> pleasing to the bees. (lavender, chamomile, borage, etc.) >> martha > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 17:46:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08658 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:46:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA19032; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:38:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18672 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:36:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep3-163-152.intrepid.net [209.190.163.152]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02541 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:38:17 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:39:30 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Questions from the Philippines.... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id RAA18673 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 558 Mabuhay! (That's tagalog for "Live!", customary greeting at the airport to welcome people to our shores. On a daily basis we say , "Hello!") How does one become a member of your network (as individual / group)? Obligations? Membership fees? Can we acquire BD preps through your group? Right now we desperately need 501 to address La Nińa problem. Is there any way you could help? While we experiment on preparing BD 500/501 on our own, is it possible for you to send us some as a donation to our farming community? Any experience on BD rice in the tropics? Is there BD funding for rice research in the tropics? Is there BD funding for training of farmers in the 3rd world countries? Just a short note for now.....how to hear from you very soon! One in the light of bio-dynamic farming! Mary Josephine "Jojo" E. Cagurangan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 17:46:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08671 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:46:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA19069; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:38:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18680 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:36:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep3-163-152.intrepid.net [209.190.163.152]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02546 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:38:19 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:39:25 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Seed List Please Post Again Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 559 The seed list is available through http://www.igg.com/bdnow/menu.html >Dear Jane, Allan, Marlin Press and Friends, > >I must have lost out on this one. Can U post it again. Many thanks Ferdinand > >Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > >> Dear Allan, Marlin Press, and Friends at BD-Now, >> >> Thank you for your efforts to bring together a comprehensive list of seed >> companies at the website. What an enormoust list! I realize this may be a >> work in progress, but as it is now, it isn't terribly useful in helping one >> decide from which company to order seed. For instance, which companies sell >> heirloom, open pollinated and non-hybrid seed? Which companies sell organic >> seed? Which seeds are untreated with fungicides? >> >> A quote from Mr. Hudson (Hudson seed) via the OGl list <<" "Our work is the >> preservation and dissemination of biodiversity, not the marketing of >> organic products.">> Good to know this when I go to order a catalogue from >> Mr. Hudson. >> >> So which company will most likely have seed from a plant my grandmother >> grew in her garden? How can I tell anything about business practices >> without first ordering seed or a catalogue to look at pricing? How can I >> know whether I am getting a fair exchange rate with overseas companies or >> from Canada if I am in the US? How can I know whether seed is guaranteed or >> not? How can I know whether or not these companies, like Johnny's will be >> carrying GE seed? >> >> It's nice you have url's posted by the companies that have websites, but >> for someone unexperienced or new to these companies how is one to choose >> the most sustainable company compatible with my ethics? >> >> Will any of this be available in the future? Say like a mini review of each >> company linked to each listing? >> >> Regards, >> Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 17:46:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08672 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:46:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA19113; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:39:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18687 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:36:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep3-163-152.intrepid.net [209.190.163.152]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02559 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:38:22 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:39:21 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Seed List Please Post Again Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 560 Dear Jane, Allan, Marlin Press and Friends, I must have lost out on this one. Can U post it again. Many thanks Ferdinand Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Dear Allan, Marlin Press, and Friends at BD-Now, > > Thank you for your efforts to bring together a comprehensive list of seed > companies at the website. What an enormoust list! I realize this may be a > work in progress, but as it is now, it isn't terribly useful in helping one > decide from which company to order seed. For instance, which companies sell > heirloom, open pollinated and non-hybrid seed? Which companies sell organic > seed? Which seeds are untreated with fungicides? > > A quote from Mr. Hudson (Hudson seed) via the OGl list <<" "Our work is the > preservation and dissemination of biodiversity, not the marketing of > organic products.">> Good to know this when I go to order a catalogue from > Mr. Hudson. > > So which company will most likely have seed from a plant my grandmother > grew in her garden? How can I tell anything about business practices > without first ordering seed or a catalogue to look at pricing? How can I > know whether I am getting a fair exchange rate with overseas companies or > from Canada if I am in the US? How can I know whether seed is guaranteed or > not? How can I know whether or not these companies, like Johnny's will be > carrying GE seed? > > It's nice you have url's posted by the companies that have websites, but > for someone unexperienced or new to these companies how is one to choose > the most sustainable company compatible with my ethics? > > Will any of this be available in the future? Say like a mini review of each > company linked to each listing? > > Regards, > Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 17:46:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08686 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:46:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA19179; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:39:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18700 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:36:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep3-163-152.intrepid.net [209.190.163.152]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02572 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:38:25 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:39:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: OFF - Re:Radon Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 561 Dear Tony, Isn't it highly interesting that the decay of stone (granit) results in the production of a gas (Radon). Dr. Steiner indicated in many of his lecture how this earth, eventually, will decay and dye and excarnate in the same way as people do. Actually, the earth already had three previous incarnations. We, here in BC, experience something similar when granit is decaying. It has to do with the release of radioactivity. I forgot whether it was Gamma Radiation but when our place was inspected, the Geyger Counter indicated that we were living in a very, very low Click Area (only 7 - 9) whereas a 'normal' area can have up to 30 and, I understand that about 50 - 70 Clicks (is it per minute?) is starting to become dangerous to your health. Here, we have the decay of granit into tiny flashes of light (energy). There, you have a first step of decay into a gas, namely, Radon. In his book 'Lebensstufen der Erde, by Walter Cloos (I think there is an English title available, too and it could be: The Evolution of the Earth) Walter goes into greater details on this question. It is worthwhile reading. Some Anthroposophical background knowledge may by helpful. Regards Ferdinand Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > Allen - The structure of the house surely is also important ? I live in > Gower, South Wales, which was stated to have the third highest incidence > of radon in the British Isles (although much less than Aberdeen in > Scotland, and in Cornwall); but older houses here are typically built > on a solid pad (once just dirt, but now typically concrete over a > waterproof membrane). In this case, radon just can't penetrate, so I'm > not bothered. Modern houses, with a boarded floor supported over a > cavity open to the soil below, can accumulate radon - it may be even > worse if there's a cellar. I don't know what structures are like in the > part of the USA which you're worried about. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 17:47:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08699 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:47:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA19215; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:39:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18717 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:36:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep3-163-152.intrepid.net [209.190.163.152]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02585 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:38:28 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:39:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Ferdy- Garlic For The Bees Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 562 Dear Linda, For years I have fed Garlic to my bees. When I spoke with a Russian beekeeper he said, that they do not have access to Terramycin (which is a bees antibiotic, as you know). He said: Grind and squash a clove of garlic (is it called like that - part of a garlic) very, very fine; then, mix it with as much as 1/2 liter of warm water and let it seep for an hour or so. Then, filter this mix through a (brown paper) coffee filter. To this you add your sugar water solution. And, depending on hive and feeding trough, you may feed 3 - 4 liters. This is being done in early spring, (on the BC Coast - in March i.e. when the hazel and alder is abloom) The beehive will smell of garlic for about 2 weeks. Apparently there are phytocites (a small virus) inside the garlic that will attack anything alien to the bees. These phytocites do their work in the human being as well (when we eat garlic that is). So far, (touch wood) I never had the European NOR the American fouldbrood and the Varoa appears to hate the smell, too. But the Varoa problem may not have reached this part of the forest yet. I am living some 6 miles away from the next beekeeper. When the inspector comes, I show her the Terramycin box - and she is happy but the bees don't not get it. Linda Ray wrote: > Dear Ferdy, > Would you please (at your convenience) forward your procedure > and a brief of your observations with feeding Garlic to your bees for > foulbrood? > > Many Thanks, > Linda Ray > > ****************************************************************** > > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > > Dear Martha, > > Feeding bees (whatever) is a real problem for the beekeeper. Bees meet each > > other from various hives and infect each other with Varoa etc. etc. >When I was > > living in town, my bees flew to the bakery (it is easy to trace them if you > > spray a few with flour or other dyes that are not harmful) and brought back > > sugar (I would assume but also foulbrood, I would assume). One thing >that helps > > this foulbrood passing on, I feed my bees garlic in March (soon). More >info for > > those who want it. > > > > So, bees, in my opinion. should really collect what is out there and >nothing > > that is fed (artificially or naturally). sometimes, a hive has to be fed > > because it is a swarm (was swarming) and is weak (or what have you). I >do avoid > > any additions such as EOs or what have you. I feed them a special tea (see > > Agriculture of Tomorrow) which, (when you make a Chromatogram) comes >very close > > to honey. > > > > I believe that anything that is added to honey (if needed) should be added > > AFTER the honey has been extracted. > > > > Bees are under such immense strain that we must keep them as clean and >natural > > as possible. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 17:49:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08725 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:49:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA19426; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:41:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18953 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:38:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep3-163-152.intrepid.net [209.190.163.152]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02793 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:40:12 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:41:31 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: GE "Frankenstein foods" (Long article) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id RAA18957 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 563 (forwarded from a vegetarian list) Frankenstein foods Saturday, February 20, 1999 GWYNNE DYER "We simply do not know the long-term consequences for human health and the wider environment [of genetically modified crops]. . . . If something does go badly wrong, we will be faced with the problem of clearing up a kind of pollution which is self-perpetuating. I am not convinced that anyone has the first idea of how this could be done." -- Charles, Prince of Wales, June, 1998 Less than a year ago, that was about as tough as the opposition to genetically modified (GM) foods got, in Britain or anywhere else: genteel expressions of concern by people essentially without power, many of whom were seen as cranks. ("If Big Ears is against it, it can't be all bad.") The GM juggernaut, meanwhile, rolled on unimpeded, bearing Monsanto, Zeneca, Novartis and the other major biotechnology companies toward a very lucrative Promised Land. How distant that all seems now. On Feb. 12, the first evidence of health problems connected with GM foods that was even remotely plausible surfaced in Britain. It is fairly flimsy evidence, one must say, but it has unleashed a frenzy of media criticism that had been just waiting to happen, and it's now virtually certain that no commercial GM crops will be grown in Britain for years. It is quite likely that this will trigger similar revolts in the rest of Europe, and reinforce the growing Third World resistance to the spread of GM technologies there. It is even possible that the protests, boycotts and demands for segregation and clear labelling of GM products will spread back to North America, where criticism hitherto has been extremely muted. To Bob Shapiro, chief executive of the St. Louis-based Monsanto Co. and erstwhile Master of the Universe, it must all feel very unfair. After all, nothing specific has been proved about the dangers of GM foods, either to consumers or to the environment. He even claims to be an environmentally sensitive "green" himself, and looks hurt when anybody questions his motives. But there is certainly a strong whiff of nemesis about the proceedings. When Mr. Shapiro took over as CEO four years ago, Monsanto was a middling-to-large agrochemical combine with a huge problem: The patent for the highly successful weed killer (Round-up) that provided the bulk of its income was due to expire soon. He came up with a brilliant solution. It's already out there in the marketplace: Monsanto now sells seeds that are genetically engineered to be resistant to Round-up, allowing farmers to get a better yield for the same dose of herbicide. And just to make sure they don't buy some cheap knockoff version of Round-up from a competitor, the seeds come with a contract obliging the farmer to buy Round-up from Monsanto. That's two profit centres where there used to be one. True, it meant that American consumers now had to eat these genetically modified foods, like it or not -- and since the United States exports huge amounts of food, all sorts of foreigners had to eat them, too. Moreover, Monsanto needed a lot of farmers to commit to Round-up Ready seeds before its patent on Round-up herbicide expired, so there wasn't too much time for lengthy trials to see whether its GM products were safe for the consumer and the environment. Mr. Shapiro became one of the biggest contributors of "soft money" to Bill Clinton's 1996 re-election campaign. Next thing you know, he's special trade adviser to the President. Getting GM products onto the shelves of American supermarkets was a no-brainer -- the U.S. media are half asleep, and the public doesn't seem to care what it eats so long as the portions are huge -- and Canadian consumers didn't pose much of a problem, either. Europeans, on the other hand, were deeply suspicious of these "Frankenstein foods," mainly because they had just been through a major health scare over bovine spongiform encephalitis (mad cow disease), which is transmitted from cattle to humans through the consumption of infected beef. Ten years ago, all the experts, apart from a few maverick scientists, were sure that BSE could not cross the species barrier and infect people -- but the alarmist mavericks were right. And that explains, according to John Durant, professor of public understanding at Imperial College, London, why "people in Europe [are now] very sensitive to new technologies in the food supply industry, and very wary of scientists and government attempts to reassure them." Monsanto dealt with European fears (or rather tried to override them) by systematically mixing GM and non-GM products together before exporting them. When the Europeans objected, demanding clear segregation and labelling of GM foods, Mr. Shapiro got his good buddy Bill Clinton to threaten a trade war, and they quickly caved in. (Leaked New Zealand government documents from early 1998 show a similar pattern, with Washington threatening to pull out of a potential free-trade agreement if New Zealand went ahead with its plans for labelling and testing genetically modified foods.) Late 1998, in retrospect, was probably the high noon of Monsanto's incipient world empire. Thirty per cent of the U.S. soybean crop and 15 per cent of its corn was grown from Round-up Ready seeds last year, with both figures set to double in the next two years. An orgy of acquisitions, including corn-seed producer DeKalb Genetics Corp., grain-trading and processed-foods giant Cargill Inc., and Unilever's crop-breeding unit, which specializes in hybrid wheats, turned Monsanto into the world's dominant biotech company, with an estimated worth of $35 billion (U.S.), up sixfold in five years. Monsanto also bought cottonseed company Delta & Pine Land last year for $4-billion, thus acquiring its "terminator seed technology": a genetic modification that prevents seeds harvested from GM plants from germinating if replanted. This is a technology without much relevance in North America, where most farmers buy all their seed anyway, but it was vital to Monsanto's plans in the Third World. It also turned out to be a flashpoint for resistance. "By peddling suicide seeds, the biotechnology multinationals will lock the world's poorest farmers into a new form of genetic serfdom," says Emma Must of the World Development Movement. "Currently, 80 per cent of crops in developing countries are grown using farm-saved seed. Being unable to save seeds from sterile crops could mean the difference between surviving and going under." More precisely, it would speed the consolidation of small farms into the hands of those with the money to engage in industrialized agribusiness -- which generally means higher profits but less employment and lower yields per hectare. "The terminator gene will pose a serious threat to Indian agriculture," warned Babagouda Patil, India's Minister of Rural Development; in Karnataka state, the farmers' association launched Operation Cremate Monsanto and burned out two experimental fields of GM cotton. In Britain, meanwhile, Arpad Pusztai, a professor at the Rowett Research Institute in Aberdeen, reported in April that an experiment in which laboratory rats were fed genetically modified potatoes had caused weakened immune systems and damage to vital organs. The protests from the Third World, however, were drowned out by a major advertising campaign claiming that GM crops were the answer to the threat of global famine. (This is tripe, as the world has plenty of food -- the problem is getting it into the hands of the poor -- but it sounds better than saying GM foods will raise the profits of biotech firms and farmers in the rich countries.) And the inconvenient British researcher was forced into retirement, with various experts saying his research was "muddled." On the surface, the plan for global domination seemed to be unfolding serenely. And then, on Feb. 12, a group of 20 scientists from 13 countries published a memorandum demanding the immediate rehabilitation of Dr. Pusztai, and expressing support for his tentative conclusion, financed by a $2.4-million grant from the British government's Scottish Office, that GM potatoes had damaged the kidneys, thymus, spleen and gut of laboratory rats after only 10 days of feeding trials, and weakened their immune systems. That memorandum ignited a firestorm of protest in Britain that forced the government to postpone authorizing the first commercial GM crops for at least a year, until the autumn of 2000, and may soon lead to a three-year moratorium. Last week, the European Commission blocked the sale or growth anywhere in Europe of two GM cottons that Monsanto markets in the United States, its third and fourth decisions in a row blocking the release into the environment of a genetically modified organism. On Wednesday, Monsanto was fined $25,000 by a British court for "genetic pollution": inadequate barriers between an experimental field of GM oilseed rape and adjacent fields of natural crops. The free ride in public opinion is over -- but what are the real risks? The direct fears can be summed up under three headings: "Frankenstein foods," "genetic pollution," and "green concrete." In each case, the anxieties arise not so much from what is known, but rather from what is not yet known about the possible consequences of this massive and ultra-rapid move into GM crops. The latter two concerns have been relatively easy for the biotechnology industry to dismiss, since they tend to divide people along familiar lines, with the pragmatists usually outnumbering the greens. If the end result of adding alien genes to create crops resistant to herbicides and insect infestations is fields where there are no other plants, few insects, and thus hardly any birds, just the GM monoculture (the "green concrete" phenomenon) . . . well, modern intensive agriculture has travelled a long way down that road already. And most people never see the fields anyway. Same goes, pretty much, for "genetic pollution." Scientists and environmentalists may worry about the risk that the altered genes that confer resistance to herbicides might get into other plants as well, creating a generation of "superweeds" that require bigger and bigger doses of weed killer to control. It was Monsanto's failure to ensure adequate safeguards against that danger (a six-metre gap between GM and normal crops) that resulted in Wednesday's fine. But, once again, the danger is too obscure and distant to mobilize popular opinion -- whereas any suggestion that GM foods are a threat to human health is (in public-relations terms) an absolute killer. The tests that have caused such alarm on this front were started in 1996 by Dr. Pusztai, an international authority on lectins (natural poisons that plants produce as a defence against predators). Competing against 28 other tenders, he won an official contract to conduct research into the human nutritional consequences of GM foods -- which, as a former senior Scottish Office official involved in commissioning the project recently explained to The Guardian, were receiving "little regard" at the time. Dr. Pusztai, a respected scientist with 35 years at the Rowett Research Institute and 270 scientific papers to his credit, probably won the competition because of his expertise with lectins, which are natural candidates for genetic manipulation since they confer protection against insects. He had the biology department of Durham University prepare a GM potato strain that incorporated genetic instructions for the manufacture of lectins, and began feeding it to rats. At the same time, he fed another group of rats with normal potatoes that were simply spiked with lectins. All the rats suffered some damage, since lectins are poisonous -- but the stunted growth and damage to the immune system were worse in those given the GM potatoes. Moreover, the researchers began to suspect that the culprit was not the lectin gene itself, but rather the virus promoter, the "light switch" that GM companies use to activate the inserted genes. And the particular promoter used in the potatoes was the cauliflower mosaic virus -- which has already been used in most GM products on the market. These were highly provisional and preliminary results, but Dr. Pusztai (by no means a dogmatic opponent of genetic engineering) was alarmed enough to seek further research financing -- which was refused. He was given permission by the institute's director, Philip James, to speak on British television in January of last year, and again in April. On the latter occasion, Dr. Pusztai said he would not eat GM foods himself and that it was "very, very unfair to use our fellow citizens as guinea pigs." In the ensuing outcry, Mr. James defended Dr. Pusztai on the first day -- and, on the second, suspended him, condemned his research techniques, made him sign a gag order, and forced him to retire. An audit report conducted by the Rowett Institute in August, while exonerating Dr. Pusztai of the charge that his research methodology was bad, did not link GM potatoes to any health risks. But Dr. Pusztai, who was then given access again to his own research data, strongly reconfirmed his findings. There the matter rested until Feb. 12, when the 20 scientists (including two who had worked at the Rowett Institute) published their letter of support for Dr. Pusztai. And then all hell broke loose in the British media. One signatory, Ronald Finn, a former president of the British Society of Allergy and Environmental Medicine, told a London press conference: "We in the U.K. have just had a very narrow escape following the epidemic of mad cow disease. I think we have probably got away with it. We have been warned once . . . and we should be extremely careful to monitor any further major change in food technology." Another signatory, Jonathan Rhodes, professor of medicine at Liverpool University, went further. "One key problem that keeps coming back time and again is that regulation of food is nothing like as strict as regulation of drugs. And when you start tinkering around with the genetic structure of food, you have to move toward thinking of food products as pharmaceuticals." So what happens now that the cat is out of the bag? For there is not just a lot of money at stake. There is also the conviction on the part of various Western governments, most notably those of the United States, Canada and Britain, that GM technologies will bring them enormous trade benefits in the next century, and thus must suffer no major restriction or delay. In Britain, it's probably a lost cause. Prime Minister Tony Blair is an enthusiastic supporter of GM foods because biotechnology firms contribute generously to his Labour Party, because his friend Bill Clinton phones him from Washington to lean on him, and because he genuinely believes that GM technologies will assist in a British postindustrial renaissance. Government officials and ministers have met companies involved in GM foods 81 times (23 with Monsanto alone) since Labour was elected in 1997, and more than $22-million has been earmarked in aid for British biotech firms. As part of the damage-control exercise, Mr. Blair let it be known that he himself ate GM foods and believed them to be safe (though his spokesman refused to be drawn on whether the Blair children also ate them). But it won't help. The British government is now in full retreat before an aroused public, and neither threats nor blandishments from Washington will keep it in line. Recent decisions in Strasbourg suggest that the tide in the rest of Europe is running in the same direction. Last week, the European Parliament voted to impose strict corporate liability and mandatory insurance on companies that release GM organisms into the environment, and for much stronger rules on the segregation and labelling of GM foods. In the United States, however, turning the tide is much more difficult. Monsanto, which makes large donations to both the Democratic and Republican parties and to congressional legislators on food-safety committees, has become a virtual retirement home for members of the Clinton administration. Trade and environmental protection administrators and other Clinton appointees have left to take up lucrative positions on Monsanto's board, while Monsanto and other biotech executives pass through the same revolving door to take up positions in the administration and its regulatory bodies. (Mr. Clinton has even praised Monsanto by name in a State of the Union address.) "The Food and Drug Administration," says Betty Martini of the consumer group Mission Possible, "is so closely linked to the biotech industry now that it could be described as their Washington branch office." And the industry has got its way: U.S. law does not require that GM foods be labelled as such, and 14 states have been persuaded to pass virtually identical "veggie libel" laws preventing the "spreading of false and damaging information about food." So whether GM foods are safe or not, most Americans will be eating them for a long time to come. They will have difficulty even in finding out which foods contain GM products (though most processed foods already do), and they may discover that questioning the safety of any specific GM food publicly leads to a close encounter with a large firm of lawyers. In the rest of the world, however, the backlash is growing fast. This week in Cartagena, Colombia, diplomats from 175 countries open the final stage of negotiations for a Biosafety Protocol that is meant to regulate the movement of GM products between countries. The biotech industries, with strong backing from the U.S. and Canadian governments, are aiming for a weak treaty that gives no country the right to keep GM products out in order to shelter its population from the socio-economic impact of industrialized, capital-intensive forms of agriculture, or even on health and environmental grounds. But the Europeans are starting to waver, and large numbers of NGOs are in Colombia to push for a protocol that gives countries the right to say no to the import and release of GM organisms, requires a full assessment of the possible effects on farmers' livelihoods, as well as health and environmental impacts, and makes biotech multinationals responsible for the legal consequences (including compensation) if something goes wrong. And most of the Third World has already figured out what side it is on. Whatever the real problems with GM foods, the strategy for their high-speed introduction throughout the world is shaping up as one of the great public-relations disasters of all time. Public suspicion outside North America is reaching crippling levels, and the reason is not at all mysterious. It is because the biotech firms literally tried to shove the stuff down people's throats without giving them either choice or information. In the words of Malcolm Walker, chairman of the British food-store chain Iceland Foods (which now has banned all GM foods from its shelves), the U.S. food giants' tactic of mixing GM and ordinary soya to make sure it was all contaminated was "secretive, devious, and a terrible thing to do. People want food they can trust." Gwynne Dyer, a Canadian-born writer based in London, is a regular contributor to Focus. Copyright © 1999 The Globe and Mail http://www. TheGlobeAndMail.com/gam/Focus/19990220/FC20FOOD.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 18:52:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA09157 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:52:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA25270; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:44:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25140 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:43:09 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IXMKa20271 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:44:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:44:18 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: OFF: Radon (?) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 564 I also heard once that there are areas where uranium was extensively mined (as during the second world war) in remote areas, then loosely covered when the war ended. When the area was later populated and basements built, it caused a problem. This was told me by a health food store owner in an area of upstate New York where, he says, there is now a high cancer rate. I never verified this statement from other sides. However, another way to consider buying a house is to try to find out what the illness profile of that particular area is. Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 22:12:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10687 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:12:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA11684; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:03:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from online.dct.com (online.dct.com [204.29.185.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA11464 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:00:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from wmh (gbol489.dct.com [208.18.217.234]) by online.dct.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA14488 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:02:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000101be5d47$6aac71e0$ead912d0@wmh.dct.com> From: "Wm Hurrle" To: Subject: Re: OFF: Radon (?) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:38:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 565 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Smith To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 2:49 PM Subject: Re: OFF: Radon (?) >Allan, > >avoid RADON dangers or have other information (or know who would have >such information) please contact me through the list or via personal >mail.> > >>From my understanding of "Radon", it is a product of decomposition of >metamorphic rock. One rock type in particular is Granite. I have in >the past found at the USGS website detailed maps delineating Radon gas >emmisions from soil. For example; the upper part of SC is composed of >rotting granite and therefore has high emmisions. > >I give the definition as I understand it to shed some light on the fact >that they must have an understanding of the underlying rock strata. >There are warning devices available for home use to warn of >excelleration radon emmission. A thorough search of the web should >yeild at least a source where one could purchase it. > >Other than that the only other thing left to do is to find a dowser >familiar with the area Dear List, Radon is a soil gas produced by the decay of uranium. The gas has an electric charge and ties up with dust and smoke particles. When we inhale them, the ionizing radiation and resulting free radicals tear up cells, causing lung cancers. Over the years I've seen numbers saying 12k to 22k / yr, about a third of such cancers in the US. Test with a charcoal cannister, a hardware store item. Do as it says in the instructions. The US standard is 4 pico Curies per liter of air. The Canadian 20, the Swedish 2. But basically there is no safe level of ionizing radiation. The fix is to first seal all connections with the soil and retest. This usually doesn't work. The next step is sub slab suction. A gas tight cover is fitted on the sump pit, a 4 inch pvc pipe runs from it up through the roof like a plumbing vent stack, and a fan on the pipe sucks air from beneath the sealed slab, which hopefully sits on gravel and has drain tile to function as a plenum. This almost always works. Radon Away, POB 8244, Ward Hill, MA 01835, 800-767-3703, has a wide range of mitigation hardware. The EPA has tons of pubs and handouts on radon; most states have someone in charge of it. The public health effects are well known because of studies on the cancer rates of uranium miners. The average price for a mitigation that includes sub slab suction in Wisconsin is about $1,200. This is for a single-story house with a masonry basement. The more dirt and rubblestone and disorder down under; the more difficult and costly the work. There are areas in Pennsylvania which sit on the Reading Prong, a formation that has lots of uranium, and thus high levels of radon. The present concern was triggered by a worker at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant who set off alarms when he came in to work! In Wisconsin we have lower levels and a helter skelter distribution because the glaciers dragged uranium rich rocks off the Canadian Shield and left them where ever. Radon problem areas have been mapped, but there are many variables and each home in a region known to have radon must be tested. Regards, Wm Hurrle From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 20 22:12:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10693 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:12:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA11747; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:03:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ark.com (root@mars.ark.com [204.50.2.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA11499 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:00:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.53.216.70] (io2p8.ark.com [209.53.216.70]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with SMTP id TAA11460 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:02:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199902210302.TAA11460@ark.com> Subject: Training of Apprentices Date: Sat, 20 Feb 99 19:02:50 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Lang Price To: "BD forum" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 566 Hallo All We at ON LINE FARMS' may be elligeble for funding to train a few apprentice would-be farmers and are interested in information, that might be helpful in setting up a realistic, practical apprentice training schedule ,that follows the course of a one year growing cycle on a BIODYNAMIC market garden/ farm. I would hate to reinvent the wheel, so if there are any kind of apprentice training guidelines out there, please send them to us. Also any hints and tips regarding training of BD Apprentices would be greatly appreciated. Best regards: Marjan and Lang. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 00:22:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11775 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:22:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA19901; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:10:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ohsu.edu (wpsmtp.ohsu.edu [137.53.4.109]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA19646 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:08:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ohsu-Message_Server by ohsu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:10:03 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:56:25 -0800 From: "Robert Gross" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Belated Flowform Response from HL -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id AAA19648 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 567 To All, Check out our flowform on www.coopermountainwine.com >>> "Connie Gilbert" 02/18/99 10:58am >>> >Received: from loki.intrepid.net >Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:26:16 -0500 >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >From: Intergalactic Garage >Subject: Belated Flowform Response from HL >Dears, >--snip--There's a whole bunch of sympathy for the artistry that >created and ongoingly creates flowforms. Flowforms are inspired creations. >The artist sweats and bleeds along the way, and compensation of some kind >seems just. Not that justice prevails noticably in our world, but it does >seem an ideal worth some striving. How might we arrive at it? At the risk of sounding quite unimformed, what exactly is a "flowform"? Thankyou Connie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 12:13:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15384 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:13:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19926; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:05:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA10425 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:29:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep2-163-111.intrepid.net [209.190.163.111]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05421 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:31:26 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902210302.TAA11460@ark.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:10:36 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Training of Apprentices Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 568 > Hallo All > >We at ON LINE FARMS' may be elligeble for funding to train a few >apprentice would-be farmers and are interested in information, that might >be helpful in setting up a realistic, practical apprentice training >schedule ,that follows the course of a one year growing cycle on a >BIODYNAMIC market garden/ farm. I would hate to reinvent the wheel, so if >there are any kind of apprentice training guidelines out there, please >send them to us. Also any hints and tips regarding training of BD >Apprentices would be greatly appreciated. >Best regards: >Marjan and Lang. Best grant-qualifying intern program I've seen is at www.angelicorganics.com (or some derivation of 'angelic organics,' search if you need to. Hey, they posted to the list last week, maybe you can find it there. Please share with the list what info you find out from this and other sources!! Thanks -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 12:13:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15391 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:13:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19975; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:05:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13646 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:41:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.61]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:53:40 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:43:44 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: February 20, 1999 - February 26, 1999 Message-ID: <30FAB6B3EF23C07B8525671F00566014.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id KAA13647 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 569 Calendar of the Soul [February 20, 1999 - February 26, 1999] Forty-sixth Week (February 16-22) The world is threatening to stun The inborn forces of my soul; Now, memory, come forth From spirit depths, enkindling light; Invigorate my inward sight Which only by the strength of will Is able to sustain itself. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ Die Welt, sie drohet zu betäuben Der Seele eingeborene Kraft; Nun trete du, Erinnerung, Aus Geistestiefen leuchtend auf Und stärke mir das Schauen, Das nur durch Willenskräfte Sich selbst erhalten kann. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+46 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 12:14:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15400 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:14:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19853; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:05:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA10416 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:29:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep2-163-111.intrepid.net [209.190.163.111]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05413 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:31:24 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000101be5d47$6aac71e0$ead912d0@wmh.dct.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:08:41 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: OFF: Radon (?) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 570 > There are areas in Pennsylvania which sit on the Reading Prong, a >formation that has lots of uranium, and thus high levels of radon. The >present concern was triggered by a worker at the Three Mile Island nuclear >power plant who set off alarms when he came in to work! In Wisconsin we have >lower levels and a helter skelter distribution because the glaciers dragged >uranium rich rocks off the Canadian Shield and left them where ever. Radon >problem areas have been mapped, but there are many variables and each home >in a region known to have radon must be tested. Anyone know the name of the nuke reactor that 'overlooks' Kimberton Hills, PA? -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 12:14:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15408 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:14:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA20034; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:05:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15992 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0110.direct.ca ([204.244.83.10] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Ebci-0005DY-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:20:53 -0800 Message-ID: <36D030F2.F9EF6E48@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:14:42 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: [Fwd: Questions from the Philippines....] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------12D72A3AC6BB0DC48D64E933" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 571 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------12D72A3AC6BB0DC48D64E933 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------12D72A3AC6BB0DC48D64E933 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <36CF6F9C.E52AE553@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:29:48 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Questions from the Philippines.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Friends, How many grams of 501 do you need. I can spare about 700 grams and send it to you. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Mabuhay! (That's tagalog for "Live!", customary greeting at the airport to > welcome people to our shores. On a daily basis we say , "Hello!") > > How does one become a member of your network (as individual / group)? > Obligations? Membership fees? > > Can we acquire BD preps through your group? Right now we desperately need > 501 to address La Nińa problem. Is there any way you could help? > > While we experiment on preparing BD 500/501 on our own, is it possible for > you to send us some as a donation to our farming community? > > Any experience on BD rice in the tropics? > > Is there BD funding for rice research in the tropics? > > Is there BD funding for training of farmers in the 3rd world countries? > > Just a short note for now.....how to hear from you very soon! > > One in the light of bio-dynamic farming! > > Mary Josephine "Jojo" E. Cagurangan --------------12D72A3AC6BB0DC48D64E933-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 12:14:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15416 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:14:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA20074; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:06:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.42]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16901 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:31:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.70.5.45]) by mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990221163312.FUIC15194@default>; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:33:12 +0000 Message-ID: <36D03818.230E@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:45:12 -0500 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Ferdy- Garlic For The Bees References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 572 Dear Ferdy, Thanks for responding so quickly! BTW yes, a single division of the Garlic Bulb is indeed called "a clove of Garlic" over here (Florida, USA). I do infogathering for a (75-year-old) Beekeeper friend who doesn't want to drug his bees, but doesn't have computer access--, your own practical experience will mean a lot to him. Thanks again! Namaste, Linda Ray ****************************************************************** Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > Dear Linda, > > For years I have fed Garlic to my bees. When I spoke with a Russian > beekeeper he > said, that they do not have access to Terramycin (which is a bees > antibiotic, as you > know). He said: Grind and squash a clove of garlic (is it called like that > - part of > a garlic) very, very fine; then, mix it with as much as 1/2 liter of warm > water and > let it seep for an hour or so. Then, filter this mix through a (brown > paper) coffee > filter. To this you add your sugar water solution. And, depending on hive and > feeding trough, you may feed 3 - 4 liters. This is being done in early > spring, (on > the BC Coast - in March i.e. when the hazel and alder is abloom) The > beehive will > smell of garlic for about 2 weeks. > > Apparently there are phytocites (a small virus) inside the garlic that will > attack > anything alien to the bees. These phytocites do their work in the human > being as well > (when we eat garlic that is). > > So far, (touch wood) I never had the European NOR the American fouldbrood > and the > Varoa appears to hate the smell, too. But the Varoa problem may not have > reached this > part of the forest yet. I am living some 6 miles away from the next beekeeper. > > When the inspector comes, I show her the Terramycin box - and she is happy > but the > bees don't not get it. > > Linda Ray wrote: > > > Dear Ferdy, > > Would you please (at your convenience) forward your procedure > > and a brief of your observations with feeding Garlic to your bees for > > foulbrood? > > > > Many Thanks, > > Linda Ray > > > > ****************************************************************** From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 12:14:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15424 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:14:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA20153; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:06:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19715 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:04:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem66.digisys.net [205.138.110.115]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11410; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:05:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D03CF2.6FCAFC3A@digisys.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:05:54 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sally CC: members , "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Neptune in Aquarius Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9B2B4C62963D5A3B58BBD7EC" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 573 --------------9B2B4C62963D5A3B58BBD7EC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sal, Fell free to share. Some of my own personal thoughts on Neptune in Aquarius: * A confused (NE) House of Representatives (AQ). * Dissolution (NE) of social (AQ) structures, or diminishing (NE) readiness to help others (AQ). * Perjury (NE) acquital (AQ). * Senate (AQ) dissolves (NE) charges due to obscure (NE) evidence. * Adnormal behavior (NE) of electronic (AQ) components. * Addicts (NE) broadcasting (AQ) the circulation (AQ) of fraud and deception (NE), thereby creating an aura (AQ) of suspicion (NE), distortion (NE) and gullibility (NE). * A need for care and attention (NE) along lines of cooperation (AQ). * A need for care and attention (NE) to electricity, electricity in the body, electric appliances, and dealers or manufacturers of electricity or electronics (AQ). * Gradual disappearance (NE) of nerve disorders (AQ). * Gradual disappearance (NE) of heart weakness or irregularities of the heart (AQ). * Spiritual (NE) ah-ha's (AQ), in other words, the "light bulb goes on" in someone's head. Boy, I could go on and on with this, but I'll stop here. Hugs, Pat --------------9B2B4C62963D5A3B58BBD7EC Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sal,

Fell free to share. Some of my own personal thoughts on Neptune in Aquarius:

  • A confused (NE) House of Representatives (AQ).
  • Dissolution (NE) of social (AQ) structures, or diminishing (NE) readiness to help others (AQ).
  • Perjury (NE) acquital (AQ).
  • Senate (AQ) dissolves (NE) charges due to obscure (NE) evidence.
  • Adnormal behavior (NE) of electronic (AQ) components.
  • Addicts (NE) broadcasting (AQ) the circulation (AQ) of fraud and deception (NE), thereby creating an aura (AQ) of suspicion (NE), distortion (NE) and gullibility (NE).
  • A need for care and attention (NE) along lines of cooperation (AQ).
  • A need for care and attention (NE) to electricity, electricity in the body, electric appliances, and dealers or manufacturers of electricity or electronics (AQ).
  • Gradual disappearance (NE) of nerve disorders (AQ).
  • Gradual disappearance (NE) of heart weakness or irregularities of the heart (AQ).
  • Spiritual (NE) ah-ha's (AQ), in other words, the "light bulb goes on" in someone's head.
Boy, I could go on and on with this, but I'll stop here.

Hugs,

Pat --------------9B2B4C62963D5A3B58BBD7EC-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 12:27:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15541 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:27:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA21388; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:19:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA21212 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:17:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem66.digisys.net [205.138.110.115]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA15008 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:19:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D0401B.8E1557F3@digisys.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:19:24 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Neptune in Aquarius Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 574 Ops, sorry I did not mean to send my Neptune in Aquarius e-mail to the BD List. My apologies. Pat Hironimus From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 14:33:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA17546 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:33:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA04257; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:24:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA04074 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:22:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-174.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.174]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA14074 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:23:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36D05E6E.3F8C@ipa.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:28:46 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: BD Seed Treatments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 575 It's that time of year when seed sowing and planting is underway. In India, seed treatments with manures and clays and soils and liquid extracts goes back several thousand years. Different treatments have different intended results. Bacterization is the process of the pre-treating seeds with microbial inoculants, such as azotobacter or trichoderma, to initiate colonization around the roots or to induce systemic aquired resistance within the plant. I was hoping the list readers would share their knowledge and experience on BD seed treatments. What BD preps or herbal extracts are used, and what are the hoped-for results? Thanks! Steve Diver steved@attra.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 15:05:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA17807 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:05:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA07619; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:56:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07478 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:55:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.125.100] (client-151-196-125-100.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.100]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08850 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:57:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902211957.OAA08850@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:56:26 -0500 Subject: Off: Re: Neptune in Aquarius From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3002453786_193654_MIME_Part" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 576 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3002453786_193654_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit No need to apologize. Thank you for your insight on the planetary archetypes at work. Your list really rang clear, which is not the usual descriptor for matters Neptunean. The forwarded SANET post below (forgive me , I felt it was pertinent) has the same Neptune (oily trails, pesticides) in Aquarius (air, electronics) buzz all about it. And it sounds MEGA IMPORTANT to me. Does indeed call for a few million "light bulbs" to go off. Extending compassion now. - Steven sanet-mg-digest Saturday, February 20 1999 Volume 01 : Number 840 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:50:37 -0500 From: Keith Johnson Subject: HOSPITALS JAMMED AS BANNED PESTICIDE IS SPRAYED FROM THE SKIES by William Thomas posted February 15,1999 http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/investsky.htm SEATTLE, WA.... As formations of unmarked tanker aircraft continue to criss-cross American skies on a mission authorities refuse to disclose, an environmental laboratory has identified an extremely toxic component of the spray drifting over cities and countryside. ENS has learned that samples of oily fallout collected by farmers, truck drivers and pilots in Maryland and Pennsylvania were tested by Aqua-Tech Environmental of Marion, Ohio in September, 1997 and found to contain ethylene dibromide (EDB). An extremely hazardous pesticide, EDB was banned by the US Environmental Protection Agency in 1983. But in 1991, the composition of jet fuel used by commercial and military jet aircraft in the U.S. was changed from JP4 to somewhat less flammable JP8. A Department of Defence source says the move "has saved some lives" in air crashes. Ethylene dibromide is a key component of JP8. The 1991 Chemical Hazards of the Workplace warns that repeated exposure to low levels of ethylene dibromide results in "general weakness, vomiting, diarrhea, chest pains, coughing and shortness of breath, upper respiratory tract irritation" and respiratory failure caused by swelling of the lymph glands in the lungs. "Deterioration of the heart, liver and kidneys, and hemorrhages in the respiratory tract," can also result from prolonged contact with JP8. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's hazardous materials list: "Ethylene dibromide is a carcinogen and must be handled with extreme caution." A seven-page summary of this pesticide's extreme toxicity notes that EDB may also damage the reproductive system. According to the EPA, "Exposure can irritate the lungs, repeated exposure may cause bronchitis, development of cough, and shortness of breath. It will damage the liver and kidneys". Mark Witten, a respiratory physiologist at the University of Arizona in Tucson where an official US Air Force study on JP8 was carried out, told Scientist in March, 1998 that crew chiefs "seem to have more colds, more bronchitis, more chronic coughs than the people not exposed to jet fuel." EDB is 6.5-times heavier than air. Unlike normal contrails, the thick white streamers being sprayed from downward-pointing tailbooms over at least 39 states does not dissipate, but spreads into an overcast that refracts a purple color in sunlight and appears suddenly as an oily film in puddles and ponds. Hundreds of photographs and videotapes made by ground observers show pairs or larger formations of aircraft spreading a white mist that thickens and drifts toward the ground. More than 200 eye-witnesses - including police officers, pilots, military and public health personnel - have provided detailed accounts of aerial spraying in characteristic "X"s and east-to-west grid patterns, followed by occluded skies - and acute auto-immune reactions and respiratory infections throughout affected regions. "I keeps coughing phlegm that tastes bad," 50 year old Mary Young of Sallisaw, Oklahoma told ENS after an aircraft sprayed her home at rooftop level one night last January with something that struck the windows like sand. "My eyes hurt, my joints hurt. I'm not catchin' my breath right. I can't get rid of this cold. I've had this bad headache - it's not just a headache. My eyeballs hurt so bad - way in the back - I just wish they would fall out." Severe headaches, nosebleeds, shortness of breath, joint pain and a dry hacking cough "that never leaves" are being reported by countless Americans jamming hospital Emergency Rooms from coast to coast. While December and January are traditionally bad months for asthma sufferers, patients, doctors and nurses across the U.S. report hospital wards filled to overflowing with bronchitis, pneumonia and acute asthma admissions at up to twice normal winter rates. Early last month, The News and Observer of Raleigh, North Carolina reported that respiratory admissions to Durham regional hospital jumped from the usual 184 patients a day to 247. Ambulance drivers were told that the hospital was not receiving any more patients. In New York City, doctors are calling a flood of respiratory cases an epidemic. "We have people double- and triple-parked in the ER on stretchers," Dr. Elliot Friedman, associate director of emergency medicine at Jamaica Hospital Medical Center in Queens, told the New York Times on January 31. "And there have been times when upwards of 40 people have been admitted but are waiting for someone to be discharged," Friedman added. "This high fever is not typical of other flus," Dr. Sigurd Ackerman, the president of St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center told the 'Times shortly after a TV cameraman panned up to frame lingering "X"-shaped contrails over Times-Square. Dr. Robert Saken, a partner in the Soho Pediatrics Group, told that newspaper, "It was surprising to me how sick they got and how quickly it happened." Dr. Ilya Spigland, Montefiore hospital's director of virology, doesn't know the reason for the sudden epidemic of respiratory cases. It is, Spigland told the New York Times, "very possible that the increase in respiratory infections may not be due to the flu." That same day in Lake Havasu, California, headlines in Today's News Herald announced: "Victims curse unnamed bug, but can't call it the 'flu'." MD Mary Lou Callername told the Herald "that a nameless virus is bringing at least 10 patients a day into her office and driving some into the hospital, but laboratory tests show only a few are suffering from Type A or other identifiable strains of influenza." The previous weekend, after San Francisco resident Curtis Schumann noticed "sky grids in the making," and Melanie Zucker watched nine contrails being woven over Berkeley, local TV stations reported Bay area emergency rooms inundated with flu-like cases. In Seattle - where a resident reports "I've lived here for 26 years never seeing this number of contrails at once" - pneumonia patient Lowell Barger told ENS that in the hospital where he was admitted in late January, "their respiratory ward was overflowing with people, and they were having to put respiratory patients in other wards." At that time, a resident of Spokane listening to a police radio scanner told ENS he heard "many rescue calls for people with breathing difficulties." In Palmyra, New Jersey, shortly after Lucrecia Moon watched unusual lingering contrails from a McDonald's restaurant, a nurse reported "many people ill." In Las Vegas, Nevada, TV news coverage told of area hospitals being filled with people experiencing breathing problems. After a resident of Lexington, Kentucky watched helicopters circling the city for several days, flying low overhead at 3 a.m., "the sky looked like a giant checkerboard from the planes criss-crossing it, and the air still had the steel mill smell." According to this eye-witness, "Everyone here is sick. So far six counties have closed all the schools because all the students were sick with 'flu-like symptoms'. I've been having headaches, a sore throat, and an annoying, hacking cough for the past four months and it seems to get worse after I see these aircraft circling the area." Similar "chem trails" sightings continue to be reported over Phoenix, Arizona. The January 28, 1999 edition of Arizona Republic reported that "The incidence of bronchial problems in Phoenix this month is 237 hospitalizations vs. last year at 160 or so." At the same time, hospitals in Portland, Oregon; Marietta, Georgia; Chandler, Arizona, Bakersfield, Santa Cruz, Redding and Salinas, California - and other cities across the nation - were jammed with bronchitis, pneumonia and other acute respiratory cases after repeated spraying and cobweb-like fallout was reported in those regions. "We're getting sprayed real heavily with the contrails," a south Pennsylvania resident told ENS. "It's just total saturation." As overfilled Pennsylvania hospitals were forced to divert respiratory emergencies to other facilities with bed space, another south-central Pennsylvania resident, Deborah Kammerer, looked out her window and watched aircraft "flying and dispersing over the city. It was supposed to be a clear sunny day. It became more overcast as the day progressed. I observed how the white trails widened out and settled down creating a haze over everything." South Florida resident Karen Okenica told ENS she has watched on several occasions as contrails "criss-crossed or ran parallel to each other. They did not dissipate but got thicker and stayed in the sky for quite a while." Okenica says she became frightened after gazing through Nikon binoculars and noticing an all-white jet with "plumes" coming from the rear of the plane. In early December, local newspaper reported that Bethesda Memorial and Delray Community hospitals were full and could not accommodate any more patients. The January 7 Philadelphia Daily News reported that "Emergency Room patients overflowed into the hallways at West Jersey Hospital in Berlin, New Jersey, and ambulance crews were temporarily diverted to other institutions as a wave of respiratory illnesses swept the area." At Northern Westchester County Hospital, "there was a 24 hour waiting period to get in." In Manitou, Michigan, Registered Nurse Kim Korte was driving north on M52, when she noticed "stripes" in the sky. "It appeared as if someone took white paint on their fingers and from north to south ran their fingers through the sky. These contrails were evenly spaced and covered the whole sky!" from east to west. Within 24 hours, Korte became very weak and feverish. After her boyfriend told her that "many in his family started coming down with the same complaints," the RN "started noticing alot of my patients and their family members were coming down with these symptoms at the same time." On checking with her colleagues, the former hospital supervisor learned that other nurses and physicians were complaining "of being extremely busy with respiratory diagnoses." In Austin, Texas - where Richard Young reports that "The skies here are filled almost daily with trails crossing each other" - a school nurse told a worried parent that she had seen over 100 sick children in a single day. Where is the mass media's reporting of this mass phenomenon? Indications of a concerted cover-up came on February 11, when a retired Southern Baptist preacher named Everett Burton finally succeeded in reaching C-span. After voicing his opinion on the Clinton impeachment trial, this former minister told Americans to get a copy of the Constitution and read it to realize what they have lost. Rev. Burton then advised viewers not to take his word for what was happening in the US - but to "just look up in the skies as the planes regularly spray contrails across the skies, spraying people and making them ill." At this point, Rev. Burton was cut off. The screen flipped from C-span to the Tennessee state seal, remained silent for several minutes. Americans are not alone in their anxious bewilderment and suffering. In England, after lingering contrails and cobweb-like fallout were reported over London and Birmingham, the BBC reported on January 14 that more than 8,000 people - mostly elderly - died from pneumonia and other respiratory complications in the last week of December and the first two weeks of January, 1999. According to the BBC, in early January of this year, more than 97,100 people in England and Wales were stricken with respiratory ailments in a single week - almost double the usual rate. Ambulances in the Greater Manchester and Mersey region were each dealing with more than 1,000 calls every day - almost twice the norm. Norfolk and Norwich suffered such an unexpected increase in deaths, a refrigerated semi-trailer capable of holding 36 bodies was pressed into service as a temporary morgue. All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ ---------- From: "P. Hironimus" To: Sally Subject: Neptune in Aquarius Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999, 12:05 PM Hi Sal, Fell free to share. Some of my own personal thoughts on Neptune in Aquarius: A confused (NE) House of Representatives (AQ). Dissolution (NE) of social (AQ) structures, or diminishing (NE) readiness to help others (AQ). Perjury (NE) acquital (AQ). Senate (AQ) dissolves (NE) charges due to obscure (NE) evidence. Adnormal behavior (NE) of electronic (AQ) components. Addicts (NE) broadcasting (AQ) the circulation (AQ) of fraud and deception (NE), thereby creating an aura (AQ) of suspicion (NE), distortion (NE) and gullibility (NE). A need for care and attention (NE) along lines of cooperation (AQ). A need for care and attention (NE) to electricity, electricity in the body, electric appliances, and dealers or manufacturers of electricity or electronics (AQ). Gradual disappearance (NE) of nerve disorders (AQ). Gradual disappearance (NE) of heart weakness or irregularities of the heart (AQ). Spiritual (NE) ah-ha's (AQ), in other words, the "light bulb goes on" in someone's head. Boy, I could go on and on with this, but I'll stop here. Hugs, Pat --MS_Mac_OE_3002453786_193654_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Off: Re: Neptune in Aquarius No need to apologize.  Thank you for your insight on the planetary arc= hetypes at work.  Your list really rang clear, which is not the usual d= escriptor for matters Neptunean.

The forwarded SANET  post below  (forgive me , I felt it was pert= inent) has the same Neptune (oily trails, pesticides) in Aquarius (air, elec= tronics) buzz all about it.  And it sounds MEGA IMPORTANT to me.  = Does indeed call for a few million "light bulbs" to go off.  = Extending compassion now.

- Steven


sanet-mg-digest      Saturday, February 20 1999 &n= bsp;    Volume 01 : Number 840

Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:50:37 -0500
From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
Subject: HOSPITALS JAMMED AS BANNED PESTICIDE IS SPRAYED FROM THE SKIES


            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;         by William Thomas
            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;posted February 15,1999

            &nb= sp;       http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco= /investsky.htm

            &nb= sp;SEATTLE, WA.... As formations of unmarked tanker aircraft
continue to
            &nb= sp;criss-cross American skies on a mission authorities refuse
to disclose, an
            &nb= sp;environmental laboratory has identified an extremely toxic
component of the
            &nb= sp;spray drifting over cities and countryside.

            &nb= sp;ENS has learned that samples of oily fallout collected by
farmers, truck
            &nb= sp;drivers and pilots in Maryland and Pennsylvania were tested
by Aqua-Tech
            &nb= sp;Environmental of Marion, Ohio in September, 1997 and found
to contain
            &nb= sp;ethylene dibromide (EDB). An extremely hazardous pesticide,
EDB was banned
            &nb= sp;by the US Environmental Protection Agency in 1983.

            &nb= sp;But in 1991, the composition of jet fuel used by commercial
and military jet
            &nb= sp;aircraft in the U.S. was changed from JP4 to somewhat less
flammable JP8. A
            &nb= sp;Department of Defence source says the move "has saved some
lives" in air
            &nb= sp;crashes. Ethylene dibromide is a key component of JP8.

            &nb= sp;The 1991 Chemical Hazards of the Workplace warns that
repeated exposure to
            &nb= sp;low levels of ethylene dibromide results in "general
weakness, vomiting,
            &nb= sp;diarrhea, chest pains, coughing and shortness of breath,
upper respiratory
            &nb= sp;tract irritation" and respiratory failure caused by
swelling of the lymph
            &nb= sp;glands in the lungs. "Deterioration of the heart, liver and
kidneys, and
            &nb= sp;hemorrhages in the respiratory tract," can also result from
prolonged
            &nb= sp;contact with JP8.

            &nb= sp;According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's
hazardous materials
            &nb= sp;list: "Ethylene dibromide is a carcinogen and must be
handled with extreme
            &nb= sp;caution." A seven-page summary of this pesticide's extreme
toxicity notes
            &nb= sp;that EDB may also damage the reproductive system. According
to the EPA,
            &nb= sp;"Exposure can irritate the lungs, repeated exposure may
cause bronchitis,
            &nb= sp;development of cough, and shortness of breath. It will
damage the liver and
            &nb= sp;kidneys".

            &nb= sp;Mark Witten, a respiratory physiologist at the University
of Arizona in
            &nb= sp;Tucson where an official US Air Force study on JP8 was
carried out, told
            &nb= sp;Scientist in March, 1998 that crew chiefs "seem to have
more colds, more
            &nb= sp;bronchitis, more chronic coughs than the people not exposed
to jet fuel."

            &nb= sp;EDB is 6.5-times heavier than air. Unlike normal contrails,
the thick white
            &nb= sp;streamers being sprayed from downward-pointing tailbooms
over at least 39
            &nb= sp;states does not dissipate, but spreads into an overcast
that refracts a
            &nb= sp;purple color in sunlight and appears suddenly as an oily
film in puddles and
            &nb= sp;ponds.

            &nb= sp;Hundreds of photographs and videotapes made by ground
observers show pairs
            &nb= sp;or larger formations of aircraft spreading a white mist
that thickens and
            &nb= sp;drifts toward the ground. More than 200 eye-witnesses -
including police
            &nb= sp;officers, pilots, military and public health personnel -
have provided
            &nb= sp;detailed accounts of aerial spraying in characteristic "X"s
and east-to-west
            &nb= sp;grid patterns, followed by occluded skies - and acute
auto-immune reactions
            &nb= sp;and respiratory infections throughout affected regions.

            &nb= sp;"I keeps coughing phlegm that tastes bad," 50 year old Mary
Young of
            &nb= sp;Sallisaw, Oklahoma told ENS after an aircraft sprayed her
home at rooftop
            &nb= sp;level one night last January with something that struck the
windows like
            &nb= sp;sand. "My eyes hurt, my joints hurt. I'm not catchin' my
breath right. I
            &nb= sp;can't get rid of this cold. I've had this bad headache -
it's not just a
            &nb= sp;headache. My eyeballs hurt so bad - way in the back - I
just wish they would
            &nb= sp;fall out."

            &nb= sp;Severe headaches, nosebleeds, shortness of breath, joint
pain and a dry
            &nb= sp;hacking cough "that never leaves" are being reported by
countless Americans
            &nb= sp;jamming hospital Emergency Rooms from coast to coast. While
December and
            &nb= sp;January are traditionally bad months for asthma sufferers,
patients, doctors
            &nb= sp;and nurses across the U.S. report hospital wards filled to
overflowing with
            &nb= sp;bronchitis, pneumonia and acute asthma admissions at up to
twice normal
            &nb= sp;winter rates.

            &nb= sp;Early last month, The News and Observer of Raleigh, North
Carolina reported
            &nb= sp;that respiratory admissions to Durham regional hospital
jumped from the
            &nb= sp;usual 184 patients a day to 247. Ambulance drivers were
told that the
            &nb= sp;hospital was not receiving any more patients.

            &nb= sp;In New York City, doctors are calling a flood of
respiratory cases an
            &nb= sp;epidemic. "We have people double- and triple-parked in the
ER on
            &nb= sp;stretchers," Dr. Elliot Friedman, associate director of
emergency medicine
            &nb= sp;at Jamaica Hospital Medical Center in Queens, told the New
York Times on
            &nb= sp;January 31. "And there have been times when upwards of 40
people have been
            &nb= sp;admitted but are waiting for someone to be discharged,"
Friedman added.

            &nb= sp;"This high fever is not typical of other flus," Dr. Sigurd
Ackerman, the
            &nb= sp;president of St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center told the
'Times shortly
            &nb= sp;after a TV cameraman panned up to frame lingering
"X"-shaped contrails over
            &nb= sp;Times-Square. Dr. Robert Saken, a partner in the Soho
Pediatrics Group, told
            &nb= sp;that newspaper,  "It was surprising to me how sick they got
and how quickly
            &nb= sp;it happened."

            &nb= sp;Dr. Ilya Spigland, Montefiore hospital's director of
virology, doesn't know
            &nb= sp;the reason for the sudden epidemic of respiratory cases. It
is, Spigland
            &nb= sp;told the New York Times, "very possible that the increase
in respiratory
            &nb= sp;infections may not be due to the flu."

            &nb= sp;That same day in Lake Havasu, California, headlines in
Today's News Herald
            &nb= sp;announced: "Victims curse unnamed bug, but can't call it
the 'flu'." MD Mary
            &nb= sp;Lou Callername told the Herald "that a nameless virus is
bringing at least
            &nb= sp;10 patients a day into her office and driving some into the
hospital, but
            &nb= sp;laboratory tests show only a few are suffering from Type A
or other
            &nb= sp;identifiable strains of influenza."

            &nb= sp;The previous weekend, after San Francisco resident Curtis
Schumann noticed
            &nb= sp;"sky grids in the making," and Melanie Zucker watched nine
contrails being
            &nb= sp;woven over Berkeley, local TV stations reported Bay area
emergency rooms
            &nb= sp;inundated with flu-like cases.

            &nb= sp;In Seattle - where a resident reports "I've lived here for
26 years never
            &nb= sp;seeing this number of contrails at once" - pneumonia
patient Lowell Barger
            &nb= sp;told ENS that in the hospital where he was admitted in late
January, "their
            &nb= sp;respiratory ward was overflowing with people, and they were
having to put
            &nb= sp;respiratory patients in other wards." At that time, a
resident of Spokane
            &nb= sp;listening to a police radio scanner told ENS he heard "many
rescue calls for
            &nb= sp;people with breathing difficulties."

            &nb= sp;In Palmyra, New Jersey, shortly after Lucrecia Moon watched
unusual
            &nb= sp;lingering contrails from a McDonald's restaurant, a nurse
reported "many
            &nb= sp;people ill." In Las Vegas, Nevada, TV news coverage told of
area hospitals
            &nb= sp;being filled with people experiencing breathing problems.

            &nb= sp;After a resident of Lexington, Kentucky watched helicopters
circling the
            &nb= sp;city for several days, flying low overhead at 3 a.m., "the
sky looked like a
            &nb= sp;giant checkerboard from the planes criss-crossing it, and
the air still had
            &nb= sp;the steel mill smell." According to this eye-witness,
"Everyone here is
            &nb= sp;sick. So far six counties have closed all the schools
because all the
            &nb= sp;students were sick with 'flu-like symptoms'.  I've been
having headaches, a
            &nb= sp;sore throat, and an annoying, hacking cough for the past
four months and it
            &nb= sp;seems to get worse after I see these aircraft circling the
area."

            &nb= sp;Similar "chem trails" sightings continue to be reported
over Phoenix,
            &nb= sp;Arizona. The January 28, 1999 edition of Arizona Republic
reported that "The
            &nb= sp;incidence of bronchial problems in Phoenix this month is
237
            &nb= sp;hospitalizations vs. last year at 160 or so."

            &nb= sp;At the same time, hospitals in Portland, Oregon; Marietta,
Georgia;
            &nb= sp;Chandler, Arizona, Bakersfield, Santa Cruz, Redding and
Salinas, California
            &nb= sp;- and other cities across the nation - were jammed with
bronchitis,
            &nb= sp;pneumonia and other acute respiratory cases after repeated
spraying and
            &nb= sp;cobweb-like fallout was reported in those regions.

            &nb= sp;"We're getting sprayed real heavily with the contrails," a
south
            &nb= sp;Pennsylvania resident told ENS. "It's just total
saturation." As overfilled
            &nb= sp;Pennsylvania hospitals were forced to divert respiratory
emergencies to
            &nb= sp;other facilities with bed space, another south-central
Pennsylvania
            &nb= sp;resident, Deborah Kammerer, looked out her window and
watched aircraft
            &nb= sp;"flying and dispersing over the city. It was supposed to be
a clear sunny
            &nb= sp;day. It became more overcast as the day progressed. I
observed how the white
            &nb= sp;trails widened out and settled down creating a haze over
everything."

            &nb= sp;South Florida resident Karen Okenica told ENS she has
watched on several
            &nb= sp;occasions as contrails "criss-crossed or ran parallel to
each other. They
            &nb= sp;did not dissipate but got thicker and stayed in the sky for
quite a while."
            &nb= sp;Okenica says she became frightened after gazing through
Nikon binoculars and
            &nb= sp;noticing an all-white jet with "plumes" coming from the
rear of the plane.
            &nb= sp;In early December, local newspaper reported that Bethesda
Memorial and
            &nb= sp;Delray Community hospitals were full and could not
accommodate any more
            &nb= sp;patients.

            &nb= sp;The January 7 Philadelphia Daily News reported that
"Emergency Room
            &nb= sp;patients overflowed into the hallways at West Jersey
Hospital in Berlin,
            &nb= sp;New Jersey, and ambulance crews were temporarily diverted
to other
            &nb= sp;institutions as a wave of respiratory illnesses swept the
area." At
            &nb= sp;Northern Westchester County Hospital, "there was a 24 hour
waiting
            &nb= sp;period to get in."

            &nb= sp;In Manitou, Michigan, Registered Nurse Kim Korte was
driving north on
            &nb= sp;M52, when she noticed "stripes" in the sky. "It appeared a= s
if someone
            &nb= sp;took white paint on their fingers and from north to south
ran their fingers
            &nb= sp;through the sky. These contrails were evenly spaced and
covered the
            &nb= sp;whole sky!" from east to west.

            &nb= sp;Within 24 hours, Korte became very weak and feverish. After
her
            &nb= sp;boyfriend told her that "many in his family started coming
down with the
            &nb= sp;same complaints," the RN "started noticing alot of my
patients and
            &nb= sp;their family members were coming down with these symptoms
at the
            &nb= sp;same time." On checking with her colleagues, the former
hospital
            &nb= sp;supervisor learned that other nurses and physicians were
complaining
            &nb= sp;"of being extremely busy with respiratory diagnoses."

            &nb= sp;In Austin, Texas - where Richard Young reports that "The
skies here are
            &nb= sp;filled almost daily with trails crossing each other" - a
school nurse
            &nb= sp;told a worried parent that she had seen over 100 sick
children in a single day.

            &nb= sp;Where is the mass media's reporting of this mass
phenomenon? Indications of
            &nb= sp;a concerted cover-up came on February 11, when a retired
Southern Baptist
            &nb= sp;preacher named Everett Burton finally succeeded in reaching
C-span. After
            &nb= sp;voicing his opinion on the Clinton impeachment trial, this
former minister
            &nb= sp;told Americans to get a copy of the Constitution and read
it to realize what
            &nb= sp;they have lost. Rev. Burton then advised viewers not to
take his word for
            &nb= sp;what was happening in the US -  but to "just look up in the
skies as the
            &nb= sp;planes regularly spray contrails across the skies, spraying
people and
            &nb= sp;making them ill." At this point, Rev. Burton was cut off.
The screen flipped
            &nb= sp;from C-span to the Tennessee state seal, remained silent
for several minutes.

            &nb= sp;Americans are not alone in their anxious bewilderment and
suffering. In
            &nb= sp;England, after lingering contrails and cobweb-like fallout
were reported
            &nb= sp;over London and Birmingham, the BBC reported on January 14
that
            &nb= sp;more than 8,000 people - mostly elderly - died from
pneumonia and
            &nb= sp;other respiratory complications in the last week of
December and the
            &nb= sp;first two weeks of January, 1999.

            &nb= sp;According to the BBC, in early January of this year, more
than 97,100 people
            &nb= sp;in England and Wales were stricken with respiratory
ailments in a single
            &nb= sp;week - almost double the usual rate. Ambulances in the
Greater Manchester
            &nb= sp;and Mersey region were each dealing with more than 1,000
calls every day -
            &nb= sp;almost twice the norm. Norfolk and Norwich suffered such an
unexpected
            &nb= sp;increase in deaths, a refrigerated semi-trailer capable of
holding 36 bodies
            &nb= sp;was pressed into service as a temporary morgue.


All messages to sanet-mg are archived at:
http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail

------------------------------


----------
From: "P. Hironimus" <whiteowl@digisys.net>
To: Sally <MOONFIRE22@aol.com>
Subject: Neptune in Aquarius
Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999, 12:05 PM


Hi Sal,

Fell free to share. Some of my own personal thoughts on Neptune in Aquarius= :
  • A confused (NE) House of Representatives (AQ).
  • Dissolution (NE) of social (AQ) structures, or diminishing (NE) readine= ss to help others (AQ).
  • Perjury (NE) acquital (AQ).
  • Senate (AQ) dissolves (NE) charges due to obscure (NE) evidence.
  • Adnormal behavior (NE) of electronic (AQ) components.
  • Addicts (NE) broadcasting (AQ) the circulation (AQ) of fraud and decept= ion (NE), thereby creating an aura (AQ) of suspicion (NE), distortion (NE) a= nd gullibility (NE).
  • A need for care and attention (NE) along lines of cooperation (AQ).
  • A need for care and attention (NE) to electricity, electricity in the b= ody, electric appliances, and dealers or manufacturers of electricity or ele= ctronics (AQ).
  • Gradual disappearance (NE) of nerve disorders (AQ).
  • Gradual disappearance (NE) of heart weakness or irregularities of the h= eart (AQ).
  • Spiritual (NE) ah-ha's (AQ), in other words, the "light bulb goes = on" in someone's head.
Boy, I could go on and on with this, but I'll stop here.

Hugs,

Pat
--MS_Mac_OE_3002453786_193654_MIME_Part-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 17:30:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA20900 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:30:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA25586; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:20:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA25466 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:19:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem178.digisys.net [205.218.31.51]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08499 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:21:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D086E2.5AEDBC07@digisys.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:21:22 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Off: Re: Neptune in Aquarius References: <199902211957.OAA08850@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 577 Thanks Steven. Pat Hironimus Steven McFadden wrote: > No need to apologize. Thank you for your insight on the planetary > archetypes at work. Your list really rang clear, which is not the > usual descriptor for matters Neptunean. > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 17:46:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21452 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:46:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA27536; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:37:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27302 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:36:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep1-163-57.intrepid.net [209.190.163.57]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13645 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:38:10 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:31:55 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Training of Apprentices Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 578 Marjan and Lang: It's a mighty deed to take on training of apprentices. A very good starting point for you and them could be Hartmut von Jeetze's "In Defense of Old-Fashioned Training" which appeared reprinted in BIODYNAMICS #204 March-April, 1996. Hartmut details how apprentices and farmers must develop certain virtues--order, obedience, submission to repetitive work, perseverence, overcoming of preference for some jobs over others--in order to gain a living relationship to the land and be in harmony with the work. It's the mentor's job in these times, when we are supposed to be so exquisitely in touch with eachother's feelings, to provide the context within which these these ancient virtues can be fostered and seen as relevant.. Here are some random suggestions for elements in a training program: --weekly study of the Agriculture Course; --twice weekly "walkabouts," slow perambulations of farm and barns and gardens, to observe, note priorities, plan the next few days' work; --a reading list: required and optional books and articles to be read and reported on; --long, slow lunches followed by a siesta time; --keeping of festivals. The biggest challenge is not the curriculum, but rather the selection process... Woody At 07:02 PM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote: > Hallo All > >We at ON LINE FARMS' may be elligeble for funding to train a few >apprentice would-be farmers and are interested in information, that might >be helpful in setting up a realistic, practical apprentice training >schedule ,that follows the course of a one year growing cycle on a >BIODYNAMIC market garden/ farm. I would hate to reinvent the wheel, so if >there are any kind of apprentice training guidelines out there, please >send them to us. Also any hints and tips regarding training of BD >Apprentices would be greatly appreciated. >Best regards: >Marjan and Lang. > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 18:05:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA21692 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:05:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA00330; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:55:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ark.com (root@mars.ark.com [204.50.2.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00013 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:54:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.53.216.51] (io1p19.ark.com [209.53.216.51]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with SMTP id OAA13087 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:56:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199902212256.OAA13087@ark.com> Subject: Re: Training of Apprentices Date: Sun, 21 Feb 99 14:56:56 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Lang Price To: "BD forum" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 579 Hallo Allen I checked out that website on training apprentices. Thanks! This will give us a great start! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 18:55:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA23125 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:55:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA06446; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:46:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06162 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:44:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Eia9-00003b-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:46:41 -0800 Message-ID: <36D0990F.6F235932@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:38:55 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Training of Apprentices - a few hints and ideas! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 580 Last year, we were inundated with WWOOFers (from Korea, Canada, England etc. etc.) We had to develop a program to train these people. It became clear that they needed first and utmost their very own living quarters. Away from the family. You cannot live with 'foreigners' all day long, day and night, Saturday and Sunday. They must have an opportunity to cook, to read, sit, argue or to simply live by themselves. Young people bring a lot of questions into a family or community and they need to be taken into consideration when they live with you. I fully agree that the STudy of the AGriculture Course is of prime importance. We added artwork, such as music, clay modelling, discussion time, painting and a lot of free time. An apprentice (in this case the WWOOFer) received $40.- per week, room and board and transportation and could, of course, wash his/her clothes and also received working clothes etc. The cost to the farm, we figured out, was in the neighborhood of $1,100.-- to $1,300.-- per month. Whereas some students gave back much more than that in work and input, the average was below, much below the $1,100.-- of our input. Apprentices cannot be considered 'cheap' labor. It simply does not work that way. After a while, they will feel exploited, angry, uneasy and a feeling of distance and separation does set in. And they may leave. If a student i.e. apprentice stays for a few weeks or a couple of months only, the input from the farmer (trainer) and the cost for accommodation, room and board is much greater than what I have indicated in the above. We had to build rooms for female and rooms for male apprentices as well as a common room. At this point in time we re building a kitchen unit so that they can, Saturday/Sundays and long week ends, eat and be by themselves. We have developed a 'responsibility plan' of what we expect from them and what they can expect from us. And there is one important point which we all must not forget: Insurance. Life Insurance, Accident Insurance or Medicare Plan. Never let anybody work on your farm without making sure that he/she is well insured. A small accident can cause you to lose your entire farm and put you behind bars for years. We do not live in the 50s any longer and I know what I am talking about. Once you have been taken to court by an 'apprentice' you are looking at the world with very, very different eyes. It is a beautiful way of bringing BD to young people, but, don't forget one thing: Few are willing to spend apprenticeship time on a low salary. They want to make money, soon. And the money aspect is one that needs careful discussion. Interviews with a prepared questionnaire and a probation time of, say, 2 weeks, are of utmost importance, too. Make sure that you separate sooner than later. Your very first impressions and experiences are the most unbiassed, the most honest and upfront you can have. They are not muddled with all kinds of promises and hopes. If you do not feel good within the first two weeks (and that counts for both parties) separate. After a few months it is much, much more difficult and at times causes a lot of pain and costs. I may talk tough here, but, forgive me for being blunt. Go to a concert if you want to feel romantic. On a farm or in your garden it isn't BD that you meet first, it is 'the daily work, punctuality, input and a lot of repetition. If this can be carried with a strong feeling of love and appreciation, then you have made it and you can make the next step towards BD. Kind regards Ferdinand (PS Three apprentices have applied with us for this coming year................all women. And last year the women carried the day, too) Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Marjan and Lang: > > It's a mighty deed to take on training of apprentices. A very good starting > point for you and them could be Hartmut von Jeetze's "In Defense of > Old-Fashioned Training" which appeared reprinted in BIODYNAMICS #204 > March-April, 1996. Hartmut details how apprentices and farmers must develop > certain virtues--order, obedience, submission to repetitive work, > perseverence, > overcoming of preference for some jobs over others--in order to gain a living > relationship to the land and be in harmony with the work. It's the mentor's > job in these times, when we are supposed to be so exquisitely in touch with > eachother's feelings, to provide the context within which these these ancient > virtues can be fostered and seen as relevant.. > > Here are some random suggestions for elements in a training program: > > --weekly study of the Agriculture Course; > --twice weekly "walkabouts," slow perambulations of farm and barns and > gardens, > to observe, note priorities, plan the next few days' work; > --a reading list: required and optional books and articles to be read and > reported on; > --long, slow lunches followed by a siesta time; > --keeping of festivals. > > The biggest challenge is not the curriculum, but rather the selection > process... > > Woody > > At 07:02 PM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote: > > Hallo All > > > >We at ON LINE FARMS' may be elligeble for funding to train a few > >apprentice would-be farmers and are interested in information, that might > >be helpful in setting up a realistic, practical apprentice training > >schedule ,that follows the course of a one year growing cycle on a > >BIODYNAMIC market garden/ farm. I would hate to reinvent the wheel, so if > >there are any kind of apprentice training guidelines out there, please > >send them to us. Also any hints and tips regarding training of BD > >Apprentices would be greatly appreciated. > >Best regards: > >Marjan and Lang. > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 18:55:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA23144 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:55:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA06580; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:47:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06318 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:46:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10EibE-0000CF-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:47:49 -0800 Message-ID: <36D09952.7A288AD0@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:40:03 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Re: Stirring Barrel Compost & a million questions References: <99022016402026.18564@www3.iname.net> <36CF6C4F.374011D2@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 581 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > >> Dear Pam, > >> The stirring of BC most often coincides with the planting and seeding > >>work OR certain field activities - spraying of grass - (also, of course, > >>with the management of manure in the stable). To be honest, I > >> spray (in the stable) when I needed it. The cows > >> produce many tons of manure per week and I spray the BC every week - not > >>thinking of ascending or descending influences. I will have to ask Anna > >>when she comes back to stand by and meditate (she can > >> also see the ascending/descending influences via her hands - centre > >>point). For me, it is often a bit of a problem to do both: to stir and to > >>see. I am, however, convinced that the micro organisms (in the BC) > >> will unfold much better at > >> certain moon constellations. > >> > >> I will run several tests (with Anna present) when we stir BC. Again, > >>they will likely be more 'conclusive' for our farm and garden areas than > >>for BD in general. > >> > >> Regarding praying and BC stirring the following thought: Whenever I > >>stir, (and this is with any preparation - 500 or 501 or BC or Valerian > >>etc.) a feeling of reverence and awe does overcome me. I do become > >> part of the cosmos while stirring. And only recently I started to > >>understand this. I saw a bunch of photographs taken by one of the > >>satellites flying into the Universe and there, endless numbers of > >> Vortices could be seen. So: what is above is also below. We are the > >>creators of micro universes (right below in our kegs and buckets - while > >>stirring....) Regards Ferdinand > >> > >> PS Remind me again in about 6 weeks on how I did. Thanks. > >> > >> pamdetray@email.com wrote: > >> > >> > Dear Ferdinand, > >> > > >> > Regarding calendar indications for working with BC, I didn't just > >>mean making the original batch. I meant stirring and using. When working > >>with BC, are we working with ascending or descending energies? > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > Pam > >> > > >> > ----------------------------------------------- > >> > FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com > >> > Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 19:07:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA23294 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:07:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA08271; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:58:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07906 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:56:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Eikx-0001dO-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:57:51 -0800 Message-ID: <36D09BAB.D188711@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:50:03 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Off: Re: Neptune in Aquarius References: <199902211957.OAA08850@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 582 Spraying the hell out of the population! /One more thing, my friend: It is shocking with what you can get away in the US (and probably in Canada, too for that matter). I could fly my very own plane (filled with the most toxic stuff) across the US and hit a large percentage of the population and the people would react like sheep, herding themselves into hospitals, getting sick, bleeding and so forth. What a nation of lemmings we have here. Believe me, this is not so much a test to spray plants but to find out how much the population is willing and able to take. Someone is keeping count and will say: Well, that much pollution does cause so much friction i.e. protest. We can live with that. Same happened with Atom Bomb tests. Absolutely the same. I have seen it all. Regards Ferdinand Steven McFadden wrote: > No need to apologize. Thank you for your insight on the planetary > archetypes at work. Your list really rang clear, which is not the > usual descriptor for matters Neptunean. > > The forwarded SANET post below (forgive me , I felt it was > pertinent) has the same Neptune (oily trails, pesticides) in Aquarius > (air, electronics) buzz all about it. And it sounds MEGA IMPORTANT to > me. Does indeed call for a few million "light bulbs" to go off. > Extending compassion now. > > - Steven > > > sanet-mg-digest Saturday, February 20 1999 Volume 01 : > Number 840 > > Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:50:37 -0500 > From: Keith Johnson > Subject: HOSPITALS JAMMED AS BANNED PESTICIDE IS SPRAYED FROM THE > SKIES > > > by William Thomas > posted February 15,1999 > > http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/investsky.htm > > SEATTLE, WA.... As formations of unmarked tanker aircraft > > continue to > criss-cross American skies on a mission authorities > refuse > to disclose, an > environmental laboratory has identified an extremely > toxic > component of the > spray drifting over cities and countryside. > > ENS has learned that samples of oily fallout collected by > > farmers, truck > drivers and pilots in Maryland and Pennsylvania were > tested > by Aqua-Tech > Environmental of Marion, Ohio in September, 1997 and > found > to contain > ethylene dibromide (EDB). An extremely hazardous > pesticide, > EDB was banned > by the US Environmental Protection Agency in 1983. > > But in 1991, the composition of jet fuel used by > commercial > and military jet > aircraft in the U.S. was changed from JP4 to somewhat > less > flammable JP8. A > Department of Defence source says the move "has saved > some > lives" in air > crashes. Ethylene dibromide is a key component of JP8. > > The 1991 Chemical Hazards of the Workplace warns that > repeated exposure to > low levels of ethylene dibromide results in "general > weakness, vomiting, > diarrhea, chest pains, coughing and shortness of breath, > upper respiratory > tract irritation" and respiratory failure caused by > swelling of the lymph > glands in the lungs. "Deterioration of the heart, liver > and > kidneys, and > hemorrhages in the respiratory tract," can also result > from > prolonged > contact with JP8. > > According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's > hazardous materials > list: "Ethylene dibromide is a carcinogen and must be > handled with extreme > caution." A seven-page summary of this pesticide's > extreme > toxicity notes > that EDB may also damage the reproductive system. > According > to the EPA, > "Exposure can irritate the lungs, repeated exposure may > cause bronchitis, > development of cough, and shortness of breath. It will > damage the liver and > kidneys". > > Mark Witten, a respiratory physiologist at the University > > of Arizona in > Tucson where an official US Air Force study on JP8 was > carried out, told > Scientist in March, 1998 that crew chiefs "seem to have > more colds, more > bronchitis, more chronic coughs than the people not > exposed > to jet fuel." > > EDB is 6.5-times heavier than air. Unlike normal > contrails, > the thick white > streamers being sprayed from downward-pointing tailbooms > over at least 39 > states does not dissipate, but spreads into an overcast > that refracts a > purple color in sunlight and appears suddenly as an oily > film in puddles and > ponds. > > Hundreds of photographs and videotapes made by ground > observers show pairs > or larger formations of aircraft spreading a white mist > that thickens and > drifts toward the ground. More than 200 eye-witnesses - > including police > officers, pilots, military and public health personnel - > have provided > detailed accounts of aerial spraying in characteristic > "X"s > and east-to-west > grid patterns, followed by occluded skies - and acute > auto-immune reactions > and respiratory infections throughout affected regions. > > "I keeps coughing phlegm that tastes bad," 50 year old > Mary > Young of > Sallisaw, Oklahoma told ENS after an aircraft sprayed her > > home at rooftop > level one night last January with something that struck > the > windows like > sand. "My eyes hurt, my joints hurt. I'm not catchin' my > breath right. I > can't get rid of this cold. I've had this bad headache - > it's not just a > headache. My eyeballs hurt so bad - way in the back - I > just wish they would > fall out." > > Severe headaches, nosebleeds, shortness of breath, joint > pain and a dry > hacking cough "that never leaves" are being reported by > countless Americans > jamming hospital Emergency Rooms from coast to coast. > While > December and > January are traditionally bad months for asthma > sufferers, > patients, doctors > and nurses across the U.S. report hospital wards filled > to > overflowing with > bronchitis, pneumonia and acute asthma admissions at up > to > twice normal > winter rates. > > Early last month, The News and Observer of Raleigh, North > > Carolina reported > that respiratory admissions to Durham regional hospital > jumped from the > usual 184 patients a day to 247. Ambulance drivers were > told that the > hospital was not receiving any more patients. > > In New York City, doctors are calling a flood of > respiratory cases an > epidemic. "We have people double- and triple-parked in > the > ER on > stretchers," Dr. Elliot Friedman, associate director of > emergency medicine > at Jamaica Hospital Medical Center in Queens, told the > New > York Times on > January 31. "And there have been times when upwards of 40 > > people have been > admitted but are waiting for someone to be discharged," > Friedman added. > > "This high fever is not typical of other flus," Dr. > Sigurd > Ackerman, the > president of St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center told > the > 'Times shortly > after a TV cameraman panned up to frame lingering > "X"-shaped contrails over > Times-Square. Dr. Robert Saken, a partner in the Soho > Pediatrics Group, told > that newspaper, "It was surprising to me how sick they > got > and how quickly > it happened." > > Dr. Ilya Spigland, Montefiore hospital's director of > virology, doesn't know > the reason for the sudden epidemic of respiratory cases. > It > is, Spigland > told the New York Times, "very possible that the increase > > in respiratory > infections may not be due to the flu." > > That same day in Lake Havasu, California, headlines in > Today's News Herald > announced: "Victims curse unnamed bug, but can't call it > the 'flu'." MD Mary > Lou Callername told the Herald "that a nameless virus is > bringing at least > 10 patients a day into her office and driving some into > the > hospital, but > laboratory tests show only a few are suffering from Type > A > or other > identifiable strains of influenza." > > The previous weekend, after San Francisco resident Curtis > > Schumann noticed > "sky grids in the making," and Melanie Zucker watched > nine > contrails being > woven over Berkeley, local TV stations reported Bay area > emergency rooms > inundated with flu-like cases. > > In Seattle - where a resident reports "I've lived here > for > 26 years never > seeing this number of contrails at once" - pneumonia > patient Lowell Barger > told ENS that in the hospital where he was admitted in > late > January, "their > respiratory ward was overflowing with people, and they > were > having to put > respiratory patients in other wards." At that time, a > resident of Spokane > listening to a police radio scanner told ENS he heard > "many > rescue calls for > people with breathing difficulties." > > In Palmyra, New Jersey, shortly after Lucrecia Moon > watched > unusual > lingering contrails from a McDonald's restaurant, a nurse > > reported "many > people ill." In Las Vegas, Nevada, TV news coverage told > of > area hospitals > being filled with people experiencing breathing problems. > > After a resident of Lexington, Kentucky watched > helicopters > circling the > city for several days, flying low overhead at 3 a.m., > "the > sky looked like a > giant checkerboard from the planes criss-crossing it, and > > the air still had > the steel mill smell." According to this eye-witness, > "Everyone here is > sick. So far six counties have closed all the schools > because all the > students were sick with 'flu-like symptoms'. I've been > having headaches, a > sore throat, and an annoying, hacking cough for the past > four months and it > seems to get worse after I see these aircraft circling > the > area." > > Similar "chem trails" sightings continue to be reported > over Phoenix, > Arizona. The January 28, 1999 edition of Arizona Republic > > reported that "The > incidence of bronchial problems in Phoenix this month is > 237 > hospitalizations vs. last year at 160 or so." > > At the same time, hospitals in Portland, Oregon; > Marietta, > Georgia; > Chandler, Arizona, Bakersfield, Santa Cruz, Redding and > Salinas, California > - and other cities across the nation - were jammed with > bronchitis, > pneumonia and other acute respiratory cases after > repeated > spraying and > cobweb-like fallout was reported in those regions. > > "We're getting sprayed real heavily with the contrails," > a > south > Pennsylvania resident told ENS. "It's just total > saturation." As overfilled > Pennsylvania hospitals were forced to divert respiratory > emergencies to > other facilities with bed space, another south-central > Pennsylvania > resident, Deborah Kammerer, looked out her window and > watched aircraft > "flying and dispersing over the city. It was supposed to > be > a clear sunny > day. It became more overcast as the day progressed. I > observed how the white > trails widened out and settled down creating a haze over > everything." > > South Florida resident Karen Okenica told ENS she has > watched on several > occasions as contrails "criss-crossed or ran parallel to > each other. They > did not dissipate but got thicker and stayed in the sky > for > quite a while." > Okenica says she became frightened after gazing through > Nikon binoculars and > noticing an all-white jet with "plumes" coming from the > rear of the plane. > In early December, local newspaper reported that Bethesda > > Memorial and > Delray Community hospitals were full and could not > accommodate any more > patients. > > The January 7 Philadelphia Daily News reported that > "Emergency Room > patients overflowed into the hallways at West Jersey > Hospital in Berlin, > New Jersey, and ambulance crews were temporarily diverted > > to other > institutions as a wave of respiratory illnesses swept the > > area." At > Northern Westchester County Hospital, "there was a 24 > hour > waiting > period to get in." > > In Manitou, Michigan, Registered Nurse Kim Korte was > driving north on > M52, when she noticed "stripes" in the sky. "It appeared > as > if someone > took white paint on their fingers and from north to south > > ran their fingers > through the sky. These contrails were evenly spaced and > covered the > whole sky!" from east to west. > > Within 24 hours, Korte became very weak and feverish. > After > her > boyfriend told her that "many in his family started > coming > down with the > same complaints," the RN "started noticing alot of my > patients and > their family members were coming down with these symptoms > > at the > same time." On checking with her colleagues, the former > hospital > supervisor learned that other nurses and physicians were > complaining > "of being extremely busy with respiratory diagnoses." > > In Austin, Texas - where Richard Young reports that "The > skies here are > filled almost daily with trails crossing each other" - a > school nurse > told a worried parent that she had seen over 100 sick > children in a single day. > > Where is the mass media's reporting of this mass > phenomenon? Indications of > a concerted cover-up came on February 11, when a retired > Southern Baptist > preacher named Everett Burton finally succeeded in > reaching > C-span. After > voicing his opinion on the Clinton impeachment trial, > this > former minister > told Americans to get a copy of the Constitution and read > > it to realize what > they have lost. Rev. Burton then advised viewers not to > take his word for > what was happening in the US - but to "just look up in > the > skies as the > planes regularly spray contrails across the skies, > spraying > people and > making them ill." At this point, Rev. Burton was cut off. > > The screen flipped > from C-span to the Tennessee state seal, remained silent > for several minutes. > > Americans are not alone in their anxious bewilderment and > > suffering. In > England, after lingering contrails and cobweb-like > fallout > were reported > over London and Birmingham, the BBC reported on January > 14 > that > more than 8,000 people - mostly elderly - died from > pneumonia and > other respiratory complications in the last week of > December and the > first two weeks of January, 1999. > > According to the BBC, in early January of this year, more > > than 97,100 people > in England and Wales were stricken with respiratory > ailments in a single > week - almost double the usual rate. Ambulances in the > Greater Manchester > and Mersey region were each dealing with more than 1,000 > calls every day - > almost twice the norm. Norfolk and Norwich suffered such > an > unexpected > increase in deaths, a refrigerated semi-trailer capable > of > holding 36 bodies > was pressed into service as a temporary morgue. > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > > ---------- > From: "P. Hironimus" > To: Sally > Subject: Neptune in Aquarius > Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999, 12:05 PM > > > Hi Sal, > > Fell free to share. Some of my own personal thoughts on > Neptune in Aquarius: > > * A confused (NE) House of Representatives (AQ). > * Dissolution (NE) of social (AQ) structures, or > diminishing (NE) readiness to help others (AQ). > * Perjury (NE) acquital (AQ). > * Senate (AQ) dissolves (NE) charges due to obscure (NE) > evidence. > * Adnormal behavior (NE) of electronic (AQ) components. > * Addicts (NE) broadcasting (AQ) the circulation (AQ) of > fraud and deception (NE), thereby creating an aura (AQ) > of suspicion (NE), distortion (NE) and gullibility > (NE). > * A need for care and attention (NE) along lines of > cooperation (AQ). > * A need for care and attention (NE) to electricity, > electricity in the body, electric appliances, and > dealers or manufacturers of electricity or electronics > (AQ). > * Gradual disappearance (NE) of nerve disorders (AQ). > * Gradual disappearance (NE) of heart weakness or > irregularities of the heart (AQ). > * Spiritual (NE) ah-ha's (AQ), in other words, the "light > bulb goes on" in someone's head. > > Boy, I could go on and on with this, but I'll stop here. > > Hugs, > > Pat > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 21 20:54:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA24763 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:54:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA22070; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:45:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21806 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:43:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.154] (max18-26.stc.net [208.210.139.154]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA09534 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:45:23 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: uai@stc.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990212131818.19700.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:22:03 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 583 >Hugh, > >I've been collecting bits and pieces here and there of dimentions of the >forms, some from NZ. How do we get in touch with him? > >Michael. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Dear Michael, Who is this him you want to get in touch with? Hugh Lovel From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 03:10:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA00773 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 03:10:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA21823; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 03:01:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA14567 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 00:28:27 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id EJTSa26290; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 00:29:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8f665b0a.36d0eb41@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 00:29:37 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: marianfarms@envirolink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Agsyn.com web page Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 584 Anyone checking out this web page is mislead by the statement that Topolos Vineyard was the first one in the United States to be certified Biodynamic. In fact, Marian Farms was the first vineyard, by one year, to be certified Biodynamic. And it happened to be bythe Demeter Association. Also, to my best knowledge, Frey Vineyards was the first to put out Biodynamic Zinfandel. Caveat emptor....Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 03:10:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA00778 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 03:10:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA21746; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 03:01:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA14001 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 00:18:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0201.direct.ca ([204.244.83.17] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10EnnN-0006zM-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:20:41 -0800 Message-ID: <36D0E6BB.8BD871EE@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:10:20 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Natural Organic Beer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 585 Friends, for those of you who want to drink good, natural, organic beer, here is good news. Instead of drinking 57 chemicals with an Anheuser Bush or Moson, drink NATURE LAND, ORGANIC LAGER. This is not an advertisement! It comes from your BD-man Ferdinand. The beer is certified by: OCIA and by Cariboo Organic Producers Accn. and Is carrying the IS) #9002 (International Standard Organisation). This beer Is really different. It is brewed by Pacific Western Brewing Co. in Prince Geroge, B.C. Canada and contains 5% Alc/Vol. They sell it in 6 X 341 ml bottles. I am a beer drinker (contrary to what Dr. Steiner said about alcohol and what it does to - among others -me) I may be a better human being without drinking it but a much worse drinking the chemicals from the Industrial, fast aged, foam agend added, perfume induced, aluminum canned, copper piped, mercury fumigated etc, etc, beers of modern times. Cheers. Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 03:10:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA00789 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 03:10:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA21885; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 03:02:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17117 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 01:18:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0201.direct.ca ([204.244.83.17] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Eois-0002HL-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:20:06 -0800 Message-ID: <36D0F49B.2D916A8@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:09:31 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Contact Monsanto Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 586 Friends, MONSANTO.COM has a website. Search, read and leave your info on their (we listen) page. If thousands contact them, we may make an impact. Tonite, their Website was so slow (I assume that many have contacted them) that it was difficult to get through. Let's hit them directly. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 08:19:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA04404 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA04810; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:09:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04763 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:08:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-143-122.s59.as1.hgt.erols.com [207.172.143.122]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01478 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:10:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36D156D8.232FBA11@erols.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:08:40 -0500 From: Rex Harrill Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Training of Apprentices - a few hints and ideas! References: <36D0990F.6F235932@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 587 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote a long list of potential troubles with taking on apprentices: > We had to develop a program to train these people. > > It became clear that they needed first and utmost their very own living quarters. [and on and on in the same vein] Well, a few days ago I would have never visualized me shaking my head at a modern day BD icon, BUT... Ferdy, I love every word you write. There is an incredible wisdom that comes in to me at many, many, levels. Why have you cast such a negative tone to apprenticeship? Why not turn this subject around and look at it from another view? For instance, my nephew wanted to enroll in Washington University in St. Louis. His family had to nix the idea when the $40,000 annual cost came into view. However, he's not giving up just yet. He's decided it's *his* job to try to figure how it can be done. IMHO, the priviledge of serving out an apprenticeship with you is worth far more than $40K, yet you make it sound as though you must pay *them*. Why look at apprentices as hired help? I'm reminded of a story I once read by an emminent crop consultant. He described how he served an apprenticeship with a renowned ag man who not only paid him zero, but who made him sign an *absolute* responsibility disclaimer PLUS a blank check. After the man finished his training, he was handed a bill that rocked him back on his heels. When he sputtered, the master said "Anything less and you might think what you got was not exceedingly valuable." The man closed his story by saying that it took him several years to make the last payment, but he still understands that he really was gifted with something many, many, more times valuable than the cost. Cheap food is going to be the death of us all. I say you should explain to those would-be BD'ers that not only will they not be paid to work, they are going to pay, and pay dearly, for a rock-solid you-won't-get-it-anywhere-else education. If they have to sling burgers for a year to get the tuition together, sobeit. You want utter dedication on your farm, not someone just looking to kill time while they grow up. Oh, yes---make sure they present you with proof of accident insurance before you let them start their training. As I said---I never thought I would wag my finger in your direction, but there it is. :) My best, Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 10:14:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA06162 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:14:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA15570; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:01:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15446 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:01:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-219.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.219]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA25691; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:03:06 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36D1721A.4D1D@ipa.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:04:58 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: peace@ipa.net Subject: Water Stirring: Discoveries in Bio-Dynamic Science Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 588 Water stirring is an interesting subject. First, I have two precious books that sit close by: "Living Water: Viktor Schauberger and the Secrets of Natural Energy" by Olaf Alexandersson. "Living Energies: An Exposition of Concepts Related to the Theories of Viktor Schauberger" by Callum Coats. One day a few years back I was reading along "Living Water" when I came across the incredible passage about "Tonsingen" or 'singing to clay', wherein Viktor Schauberger went to be with an old farmer. The farmer was stirring water that had clay (or clay loam soil) added to it, first in one direction and then the other (creating a vortex). As he stirred to the right he sang an ascending tone in a loud voice, and when stirring to the left he sang in descending tones. The water was then allowed to cool and ferment over night, and in the morning the farmer swept splashes of water drops across the fields with a frond. This practice was done at specific times, such as immediately after planting and firming of the seed in the soil. According to Schauberger, as the clay-treated water evaporated it left fine crystals which carried a negative charge. These crystals attracted rays from all directions. After some further technical explanations is comes down to this: the soil surface remains moist and cool, even during drier times, and thus increased yields of 30% are observed in association with 'clay singing.' Second: The January-February '99 issue of "Infinite Energy" magazine has an interesting piece titled "Water Stirring Discovery: Is It Connected with Cavitation Excess Energy" by Eugene Mallove. To the extent you like water stirring and find it fascinating -- in association with preparing the BD preprations for field use or in association with your old 'clay singing' that you don't tell your neighbors about -- I think you will find the topic of this article interesting. Professor Kazunari Domen at the Tokoyo Institute of Technology, as reported in "New Scientist" (November 14, 1998) found a way to split water molecules at water temperature into hydrogen and oxygen, using a simple catalyst -- powdered cuprous oxide -- and stirring the water. Selected excerpts from Mallove: "The Japanese investigators say that the energy to break water's molecular bonds seems to come from stirring, but I believe that at this point it is really not possible to know exactly from where the energy is coming." "Earlier in 1998, Domen had claimed that powdered cuprous oxide catalyst could split water at room temperature if it were activited by visible light. However, now his group has determined that the reaction continues completely in the dark while the water is stirred -- for up to hundreds of hours! Moreover, the more energetic the stirring, the more hydrogen and oxygen are produced, according to the claim. This work is described in the scientific journal "Chemical Communications, p. 2185 (1998). The earlier light-activated report by Domen et al was in the same journal, Vol. 70, p. 287." "It is very interesting, indeed, that the Domen process does not work with curpous oxide dissolved in water -- only when there are solid particles of cuprous oxide in water suspension. A typical suspension mixture that works -- according the "New Scientist" (February 28, 1998) is 0.5 grams cuprous oxide powder to 200 cubic centimeters of distilled water. This was employed in the earlier experiments that were alleged to be activiated by visible light (460 to 650 nm wavelength). I should add that the focus of the article is on hydrogen release as a potential energy source. That's why you find it covered in a magazine about emergy energy technologies. However, from an agricultural-holistic human health-earth restoration angle, there is an interesting correlation to water stirring in its universal application. In biodynamics BD Preparations of fermented cow manure or powdered quartz silica are added to the water, then vigorous stirring takes place in opposing directions to create a vortex. In Tonsingen, clay is added to to water, accompanied by stirring and singing. In the research with hydrogen-oxygen splitting, the water stirring was sometimes accompanied with transmission of light wavelenghts at certain namometers. In total, we have humans beings working at practical and scientific levels stirring water with additions of clay or quartz or humus or mineral elements, and in some cases combining certain light and sound waves. I am certain there is symmetry as well as monumental discovery in this thread. Probably it is still largely a mystery, waiting to be uncovered. Steve Diver steved@attra.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 10:16:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA06223 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA16439; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:07:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA16098 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:06:10 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id QQBOa03211 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:07:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:07:00 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Questions from the Philippines.... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 589 I for one would be very interested to learn more about the farm in the Philippines. Who are you, and do you have a relation to the Threefold work going on there? What kind of farm do you have? etc. . Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 10:53:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07578 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:53:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA22347; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:43:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21925 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:42:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem120.digisys.net [205.138.110.169]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA17294 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:44:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D17B5E.AC8161EE@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:44:31 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Biodynamic Berry Vines References: <001101be5e6f$040a0960$03c76cce@gateway-2000> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 590 By chance, does anyone carry biodynamic/organic berry vines for sale? Thanks, Pat Hironimus Simply Health Farms From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 11:10:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08018 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:10:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA25337; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:01:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25101 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:00:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp2.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.102]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA06205 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:00:29 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <005d01be5e7c$65154140$664b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Biodynamic Berry Vines Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:59:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 591 Not BD, but an organically-grown fruit/berry stock nursery I just found in the latest Organic Gardening...Hidden Springs Nursery, 170 Hidden Springs Lane, Cookeville, TN 38501. OG says that the 99 catalog includes blueberries, grapes, currants, cranberries, lingonberries, mayhaws, pawpaws, and hardy kiwis & much more, some being quite unusual. Catalog is $1. (am ordering my copy today!) I'm not endorsing, having done no business with them, yet but it does seem to be difficult to find organic nurseries, doesn't it? Julie M. PS - Anyone know of a place to find organic apple tree stock? Anyone have experience growing "Seaberries"(Hippohae rhamnoides). I know that "One Green World" is big on them, but am not sure about that nursery's level of pesticide/fungicide/etc. use. No mention of organic status is at their website www.onegreenworld.com so I will assume the worst (but if anyone knows differently....) >By chance, does anyone carry biodynamic/organic berry vines for sale? > >Thanks, > >Pat Hironimus >Simply Health Farms > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 11:27:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08342 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:27:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA27513; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:17:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27276 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:15:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0110.direct.ca ([204.244.83.10] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Ey3J-0007Mw-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:17:50 -0800 Message-ID: <36D182DA.60A9AF71@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:16:26 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Training of Apprentices - a few hints and ideas! References: <36D0990F.6F235932@direct.ca> <36D156D8.232FBA11@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 592 Dear Rex, We are all human(s), aren't we? Well, how shall I reply? How do you handle apprentices? How do YOU PRACTICALLY go forward with their training? What can YOU say about having trained many happy apprentices? How do YOU protect the integrity of the farm and the farm unit? I am ever so eager to hear from YOU and YOUR EXPERIENCES! I am always open for new approaches. As far as I am concerned, it is best to be clear at the beginning. We have tried to bring about a balance between what the student can contribute and what the farm can pay. We have never charged although we are discussing (and as it happens: tonight) whether we should start a farm school. In my opinion, you are talking of a farm school (situation). I was an apprentice, too, my friend (on a farm & as a plumber/roofer) and ( believe) I know whether an apprentice is being used as cheap labor (and the apprenticeship is a facade) or whether there are plans (clear plans) on how to train such a person. Woody indicated (in a recent post) that - as an example - one ought not to keep the apprentice on the same job for too long. I fully agree. There must be a variety of jobs, a many faceted situation. Yet, can that be done by one single farm alone? Don't U think that, for this, several farms may have to work together. I don't mind, Rex, being wagged a finger at. No problem. But I would hate to be looked at (in 20 years from now) by the apprentice for not having given him/her the very best education. And that's the question here. Not the being nice ( and all kinds of happy sounding words) and a bit of fuzzy thinking. Where I come from, Rex, (Switzerland) apprentices have to go to school 1 - 2 days per week AND work on the job site. The school is controlled and checked by the government and so is your farm. You cannot simply hire or invite a young person onto your farm 'and steal one year of his life' for a pseudo (BD) education. You are being tested whether you truly know BD. And since we do not have such standards here in BC or Canada (for that matter) I simply did not want to sound like a snow man (who quickly disappears in the grass, when spring arrives). I am gladly coming to your farm for a week to learn more about apprenticing. Best regards Ferdinand PS Personally, I am all enthusiastic about apprentices - IF it is done in the right way. Rex Harrill wrote: > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote a long list of potential troubles with taking on > apprentices: > > > We had to develop a program to train these people. > > > > It became clear that they needed first and utmost their very own living quarters. > > [and on and on in the same vein] > > Well, a few days ago I would have never visualized me shaking my head at a modern day > BD icon, BUT... > > Ferdy, I love every word you write. There is an incredible wisdom that comes in to > me at many, many, levels. > > Why have you cast such a negative tone to apprenticeship? Why not turn this subject > around and look at it from another view? > > For instance, my nephew wanted to enroll in Washington University in St. Louis. His > family had to nix the idea when the $40,000 annual cost came into view. However, > he's not giving up just yet. He's decided it's *his* job to try to figure how it can > be done. > > IMHO, the priviledge of serving out an apprenticeship with you is worth far more than > $40K, yet you make it sound as though you must pay *them*. Why look at apprentices as > hired help? > > I'm reminded of a story I once read by an emminent crop consultant. He described how > he served an apprenticeship with a renowned ag man who not only paid him zero, but > who made him sign an *absolute* responsibility disclaimer PLUS a blank check. After > the man finished his training, he was handed a bill that rocked him back on his > heels. When he sputtered, the master said "Anything less and you might think what > you got was not exceedingly valuable." > > The man closed his story by saying that it took him several years to make the last > payment, but he still understands that he really was gifted with something many, > many, more times valuable than the cost. > > Cheap food is going to be the death of us all. I say you should explain to those > would-be BD'ers that not only will they not be paid to work, they are going to pay, > and pay dearly, for a rock-solid you-won't-get-it-anywhere-else education. If they > have to sling burgers for a year to get the tuition together, sobeit. You want utter > dedication on your farm, not someone just looking to kill time while they grow up. > > Oh, yes---make sure they present you with proof of accident insurance before you let > them start their training. > > As I said---I never thought I would wag my finger in your direction, but there it > is. :) > > My best, > Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 11:28:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08391 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:28:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA27890; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:19:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27389 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:16:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from 209.143.11.44 (hils-ras1-2-cs-16.dial.bright.net [209.143.11.44]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id LAA12535 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:18:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36D17A0D.2A9B@bright.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:38:52 -0500 From: Marilyn Hiestand Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Contact Monsanto References: <36D0F49B.2D916A8@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 593 Hi, I just wanted to add a little info about Monsanto. They are developing a site for farmers called farmsource.com. The company is marketing it to all it's farmers who think they need Monsanto products. It links farmers, suppliers, and Monsanto into one cosy family.It is supposed to be up by March 1. Marilyn From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 11:32:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08502 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:32:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28273; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:22:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28175 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:22:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0110.direct.ca ([204.244.83.10] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Ey9X-000069-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:24:15 -0800 Message-ID: <36D1845B.E4E00D4@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:22:51 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page References: <8f665b0a.36d0eb41@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 594 Agsyn.com is working with Greg Willis and, as far as I am concerned, many things are amiss there. Regards Ferdinand PatandLiz@aol.com wrote: > Anyone checking out this web page is mislead by the statement that Topolos > Vineyard was the first one in the United States to be certified Biodynamic. In > fact, Marian Farms was the first vineyard, by one year, to be certified > Biodynamic. And it happened to be bythe Demeter Association. Also, to my best > knowledge, Frey Vineyards was the first to put out Biodynamic Zinfandel. > Caveat emptor....Patrick From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Feb 22 13:07:48 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12674 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:07:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16425 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:02:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA01935; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:01:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01838 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:00:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from digisys.net (modem120.digisys.net [205.138.110.169]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA06690; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:00:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D19B42.9587164A@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:00:34 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" CC: CSA-L , "herb@MyList.net" , "HERBWORLD@aol.com" Subject: Toxic Food References: <3.0.1.32.19990222075529.006ed6c8@cp.duluth.mn.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 595 This is one of the most informative sites I've seen on pesticides in food. Take the test and see what you are consuming: http://www.foodnews.org Pat Simply Health Farms From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 13:10:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12707 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:10:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15050; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:00:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14395 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:57:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10EzdD-0000dg-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:59:00 -0800 Message-ID: <36D19A91.FAB3236E@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:57:37 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: In honour of Rex Hadrill - Apprenticeship Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 596 Here is a story: One morning, our hen house needed to be repaired. It was fairly big and the roof was leaking like a sieve. So, we decided to have the old shakes taken down and new ones put up. My apprentice had worked with me on another roof and I was 'confident' he could do the job by himself. And so he removed the old shakes. And in the evening I had to go away for two days (..that can happen ......) He was in good hands with my wife and children. When I came back it was dark. I met our good apprentice in front of the hen house where he told me happily that he had finished his job. I was thoroughly impressed. Rain was falling like mad and I thought that it would be nice to go into the hen house to enjoy the new roof. However, when standing inside, it was dripping and raining inside almost as much as outside. We looked at each other. What's going on, here? Inspecting the ceiling it all looked normal. He had followed my instructions not to put any felt down. So, I went outside. I could not see much, it was too dark. So, I got a flashlight. And, horror over horror, what did I see? My good apprentice had put the shakes down starting from the top...........TRY IT...! Do you get it, Rex? One must always be present - always. Don't leave your kind helper by him/herself. T'was fixed in a further 5 days..... Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 13:10:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12719 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:10:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15218; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:01:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14675 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:58:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem120.digisys.net [205.138.110.169]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA06690; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:00:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D19B42.9587164A@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:00:34 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" CC: CSA-L , "herb@MyList.net" , "HERBWORLD@aol.com" Subject: Toxic Food References: <3.0.1.32.19990222075529.006ed6c8@cp.duluth.mn.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 597 This is one of the most informative sites I've seen on pesticides in food. Take the test and see what you are consuming: http://www.foodnews.org Pat Simply Health Farms From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 13:13:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12763 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:13:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15573; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:03:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15092 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:00:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.37] (pm3shep1-163-37.intrepid.net [209.190.163.37]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17465 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:02:34 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:03:50 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OBRL - RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 598 Forwarded by James Johnson From: OBRL-News To: obrl-news@lists.village.Virginia.EDU Subject:- RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. Orgone Biophysical Research Lab http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm Forwarded News Item Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups ********** From: jeff.gordon@wellnow.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:48:39 -0500 To: James DeMeo Subject: Re: (jg) OBRL More on Prions, HIV and Science Your recent post on prions caused me to remember that I had something tucked away in file somewhere. The date on my file is 23-Sep-96. I'll withold the name of the writer, apparently a college student in the UK at that time, because she tells me she simply has nothing more she can add. At my parents' house, a kindly Orkin man appeared monthly for years and years, spraying toxic chemicals onto the floors and windows. We decided one day that this was not such a great idea, and fired him. Three years later, I'm still watching instances of "Mad Cockroach Disease" whenever some poor unsuspecting woods cockroach happens to wander in through an opened door -- they start out looking perfectly well and healthy, then within a few hours begin walking funny, often beginning to wander in circles, sometimes dragging their rear legs. Generally they slip into a dazed state, and lie on their backs on the floor -- not dead yet, but not functional; they usually do this in a pathway, apparently trying to expose themselves to maximum air flow in hopes of being able to breathe better. ========= You will all have been interested in a TV program shown here in the UK on Wednesday evening. This was made by Mark Purdey, an English organic dairy farmer, who started looking into BSE (so-called Mad Cow Disease). He is quite convinced that the cause of this is not contaminated feed (contaminated with sheep with Scrapie, a similar brain disease) but use of OP pesticides, particularly against warble fly, which involves pouring pints of pesticide over cows' skin. One key piece of supporting evidence is that nearly 10 years after contatminated feed was withdrawn, there are still thousands of new cases of BSE every year. He is looking at damage to protein prions in cow's brains from OP, and has become interested in the high rate of CFS, Alzheimers and MS amongst farmers, and people living near fields which are sprayed a lot. He also had support in his theories from a local GP (General Practioner), who is seeing more and more sick farmers, and a consultant at the Univesrity of Glasgow, who is convinced there is a link between OP exposure and CFS (or ME as we tend to call it here.) Several biochemists were also on to support his ideas. Depressing though this all is (and he did go on to talk about high levels of OPs in intensive veggie production as well), I think you would all have found it a relief to hear such views expressed so clearly and reasonably. I doubt if the programme is available to you in the US - it is made by a small production company, one of many which provides interesting one off programmes for Channel 4. G----- PS It was also interesting to see how the governement simply will not release samples of BSE infected cows to anyone outside their labs to do further analysis. Once diagnosed, the cow is the property of the government, and independent researchers don't get a look in. ++++++++ Dear Jeff, The farm journal ACRES, USA has been running articles in recent years about organic dairy farms in England which never had a downer-cow, or any traces of BSE, but which also never used toxic pesticides to spray their cows as is typical in non-organic dairys. Apparently, in past years dairymen hired people to manually remove ticks from the cows, pulling them off by hand and in generally giving the animals a good grooming periodically. No more. Today, it is typical to run the cows through a chute and spray them with toxic pesticides which kill the ticks, and also (as from your article, above) to suppress flies and other insects common to cows. Pesticides are probably a major contributing cause of diseased cows -- in addition to feeding the vegetarian cows the ground-up corpses of dead sheep and cattle, etc., plus unnatural hormones, etc. Farming has become a toxic mess, as is our food supply as well. Best to eat organic, all the way around. James DeMeo, Ph.D. ********** OBRL News is a product of the non-profit Orgone Biophysical Research Lab Greensprings Research and Educational Center PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm demeo@mind.net Building upon the discoveries of the late, great natural scientist, Dr. Wilhelm Reich To subscribe to OBRL-News, send the message: subscribe obrl-news to the following address: Majordomo@lists.village.virginia.edu To unsubscribe, or change to a new email address, firstly: unsubscribe obrl-news to the same address above. Then re-subscribe with your new address. subscribe obrl-news From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 13:21:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12921 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:21:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA17575; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:11:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA16702 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:08:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem120.digisys.net [205.138.110.169]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10326 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:10:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D19DAE.53FDBA9@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:10:54 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Biodynamic Berry Vines References: <005d01be5e7c$65154140$664b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 599 Julie, Thanks. Pat Julie M. wrote: > Not BD, but an organically-grown fruit/berry stock nursery I just found in > the latest Organic Gardening...Hidden Springs Nursery, 170 Hidden Springs > Lane, Cookeville, TN 38501. OG says that the 99 catalog includes > blueberries, grapes, currants, cranberries, lingonberries, mayhaws, pawpaws, > and hardy kiwis & much more, some being quite unusual. Catalog is $1. (am > ordering my copy today!) I'm not endorsing, having done no business with > them, yet but it does seem to be difficult to find organic nurseries, > doesn't it? > > Julie M. > > PS - Anyone know of a place to find organic apple tree stock? Anyone have > experience growing "Seaberries"(Hippohae rhamnoides). I know that "One Green > World" is big on them, but am not sure about that nursery's level of > pesticide/fungicide/etc. use. No mention of organic status is at their > website www.onegreenworld.com so I will assume the worst (but if anyone > knows differently....) > > >By chance, does anyone carry biodynamic/organic berry vines for sale? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Pat Hironimus > >Simply Health Farms > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 15:15:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA15603 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:15:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09697; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:01:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f168.hotmail.com [209.185.131.231]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA08978 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:58:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 3090 invoked by uid 0); 22 Feb 1999 19:40:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19990222194012.3088.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.106.147 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:40:12 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.106.147] From: "Connie Gilbert" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Flowforms Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:40:12 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 600 Thanks for the information,I have seen these, just didn't know what they are called . Does anyone have plans for building one? I don't mean the exact artistic style, but maybe the essentials needed to make one work. Connie From: "Robert Gross" >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Subject: Re: Belated Flowform Response from HL -Reply > >To All, > Check out our flowform on www.coopermountainwine.com >>>> "Connie Gilbert" 02/18/99 10:58am >>> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 15:30:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA15998 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:30:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12889; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:19:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12573 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0214.direct.ca ([204.244.83.30] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10F1pK-0005mp-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:19:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36D1BB8A.7B057249@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:18:18 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Re: Water Stirring: Discoveries in Bio-Dynamic Science Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 601 Dear Steve, I know the book and it is highly interesting. I was asked about the 'Tonsingen' (I do not know whether it is sound singing or clay singing, since clay was added to the water). If and when interested parties come by our farm we add 'soil' to our barrell as well and stir AND sing or talk to the mix. That soil is 500..... So, IF the farmer knew from where to gather the soil (and I know mountain farms on which the cow manure has transformed into a preparation very similar to 500) and stirred it, he may have gotten a similar effect as the BD stirring. At the Tonsinging farmer's place we have an individualized 'BD' approach (bio-dynamic = a biologically dynamized, activated approach). And I am sure that within the next 500 years there will be as many approaches to BD as there are farms. In a recent post some members of BDNOW were smiling about my changing the stirring of Barrel Compost (BC) from 20 minutes to 12 or even 6. I am sure that other farmers will be able to individualize the time even further. Prayer was thrown into the dicussion, too. Singing, in many parts of where I grew up, was a deep spiritual experience and expression (and still is so for many people in 1999). Let us not forget that until recently, large numbers of people went to church not to listen to the preacher(s) but to sing! As we know from Dr. Steiner's lectures: future (physical) creation shall come about via the voice. As it was in the very beginning when God started the creation by speaking to it (Chapter 1, Genesis: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, And God said: Let there be light: and there was light) So, light came out of the water. The voice is one of the most powerful expressions man(kind) (kind man) has (even evil man = remember Hitler). Even lovemaking, Steiner says, will change to a chanting to each other and many, of not most women, know that it is a man's vice first, the tone, the words, the soothingly told story etc. that opens up the feminine psyche before a woman can engage in making love. And so it is with Mother Earth, my friend. Sing to her and talk to her before the seeding which, again to take Steiner, is the closest nature comes to an act of making love, of fertilization. The farmer as the carrier of the seeds. What a wonderful picture, what a powerful moment in the course of a year. The farmer engaged in the making of love with nature. Only a priest can be present in such a moment AND understand. Mechanization....!!!, I shudder when I think of it. Me and a machine in bed. Can we feel with nature at such a moment? Regards Ferdinand Steve Diver wrote: > Water stirring is an interesting subject. > > First, I have two precious books that sit close by: > > "Living Water: Viktor Schauberger and the Secrets of > Natural Energy" by Olaf Alexandersson. > > "Living Energies: An Exposition of Concepts Related to > the Theories of Viktor Schauberger" by Callum Coats. > > One day a few years back I was reading along "Living Water" > when I came across the incredible passage about "Tonsingen" > or 'singing to clay', wherein Viktor Schauberger went to > be with an old farmer. The farmer was stirring water > that had clay (or clay loam soil) added to it, first in one > direction and then the other (creating a vortex). As he > stirred to the right he sang an ascending tone in a loud > voice, and when stirring to the left he sang in descending > tones. The water was then allowed to cool and ferment over > night, and in the morning the farmer swept splashes of water > drops across the fields with a frond. This practice was done > at specific times, such as immediately after planting and > firming of the seed in the soil. > > According to Schauberger, as the clay-treated water evaporated it > left fine crystals which carried a negative charge. These crystals > attracted rays from all directions. After some further > technical explanations is comes down to this: the soil surface > remains moist and cool, even during drier times, and thus > increased yields of 30% are observed in association with > 'clay singing.' Have you ever looked into a woman's eyes when the story is told beautifully, vividly and soothingly? Or, when you sing.....! Like christals. Perhaps her eyes do carry a special charge at such a moment, too?Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 15:34:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16111 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:34:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA13501; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:22:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12921 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:19:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0214.direct.ca ([204.244.83.30] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10F1r1-0005tr-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:21:24 -0800 Message-ID: <36D1BBF3.72E646C2@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:20:03 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Hello from Croatia! References: <199902222011.VAA14048@bach.iskon.hr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 602 Are U learning BD in Croatia? And where abouts? Regards Ferdinand Jasminka wrote: > I am a voulonteer and a member of the Croatian BD society The Living Earth > I have joined the mailing list recently > and just wanted to send you all the wet rainy regards from Croatia. > With smiles > Jasminka > > (26 yrs old girl, student of psychology, learning BD) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 16:00:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA16931 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:00:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA18621; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:46:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA17960 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:43:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.37.33.227 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:45:16 -0800 Message-ID: <001901be5ea3$d33998c0$e3212599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: Re: Hello from Croatia! Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:42:11 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 603 Greetings Jasminka and welcome to our list. Please tell us about your work and group. We are all very interested. with best regards, Andrew >I am a voulonteer and a member of the Croatian BD society The Living Earth >I have joined the mailing list recently >and just wanted to send you all the wet rainy regards from Croatia. >With smiles >Jasminka > >(26 yrs old girl, student of psychology, learning BD) > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 17:18:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA19729 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:18:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05545; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:07:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04809 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:04:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-143-122.s59.as1.hgt.erols.com [207.172.143.122]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id RAA24643 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:06:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36D1D45C.AFD366B7@erols.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:04:12 -0500 From: Rex Harrill Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: In honour of Rex Hadrill - Apprenticeship References: <36D19A91.FAB3236E@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 604 Ferdinand Vondruska told a story about an 'apprentice': > Do you get it, Rex? Not exactly---everybody I know understands how to put a roof on. Who on earth is responsible for bringing onboard someone who apparently could fail the green-side-up test if laying sod? If you're describing the normal run of your apprentice applicants, then I take back everything I suggested about only taking on those with a burning desire to learn serious BD from an acknowledged master. In your other message to me you mentioned the possibility of a farm school. This roof business sounds more akin to a farm kindergarten. And, no, I don't have any apprentices. However, if I ever do they will probably come aboard about as I suggested. Yes, I would feel like a fraud if they left here and 20 years later wondered what they got for their sweat and money. But, I venture, there's little chance of that because I'll be busting my butt every minute they're here to teach them advanced agriculture like they will never get in a high-priced ag school. And they *will* know it. I'm trying to tell you to not sell yourself short---nothing more and nothing less. > One must always be present - always. Don't leave your kind helper by > him/herself. Would a Zen master understand a BD master speaking these words? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I view what you have to offer the novice as light-years ahead of hand-holding. Or be you drinking that 5% beer and having fun with me? :) Regards, Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 18:47:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA23303 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:47:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05313; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:06:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04398 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:03:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-88.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.88]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA11213; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:04:34 +1100 Message-ID: <004701be5eaf$48186a80$54431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: "Jill Cranny" , Subject: Re: OBRL - RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:38:55 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 605 Dear BDNowers, This is a very interesting article. I was listening to the radio this am and there was an American Senior Extension Officer speaking about Johnes Disease, a bovine wasting disease, which is a problem here in Australia, but as she said, not nearly as big as in USA, where over 50% of cattle are affected. I was wondering what the problem is, ? AI passing on the genetic predisposition / immune system breakdown. But this idea of pour on sprays is really interesting. It also interests me as when I think of other human wasting diseases like Motor Neurone Disease (Lou Gehrigs Disease), I think that this is caused by absorption of toxic chemicals going straight into the central nervous system (via inhalation in humans) so could not the pour ons also be affecting the CNS? Is this an issue with your BD and Organic farmers in USA? I will ask re Australian BD farmers, but I haven't heard of it amongst them. I bet Ferdinand could have some interesting thoughts and pictures on this issue. Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tuesday, 23 February 1999 5:05 am Subject: OBRL - RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. >Forwarded by James Johnson > >From: OBRL-News >To: obrl-news@lists.village.Virginia.EDU >Subject:- RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. > >Orgone Biophysical Research Lab >http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm >Forwarded News Item > >Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups > >========= > >You will all have been interested in a TV program shown here in the UK on >Wednesday evening. This was made by Mark Purdey, an English organic dairy >farmer, who started looking into BSE (so-called Mad Cow Disease). > >He is quite convinced that the cause of this is not contaminated feed >(contaminated with sheep with Scrapie, a similar brain disease) but use >of OP pesticides, particularly against warble fly, which involves pouring >pints of pesticide over cows' skin. One key piece of supporting evidence >is that nearly 10 years after contatminated feed was withdrawn, there are >still thousands of new cases of BSE every year. > >He is looking at damage >to protein prions in cow's brains from OP, and has become interested in >the high rate of CFS, Alzheimers and MS amongst farmers, and people >living near fields which are sprayed a lot. He also had support in his >theories from a local GP (General Practioner), who is seeing more and >more sick farmers, and a consultant at the Univesrity of Glasgow, who is >convinced there is a link between OP exposure and CFS (or ME as we tend >to call it here.) Several biochemists were also on to support his ideas. > >Depressing though this all is (and he did go on to talk about high levels >of OPs in intensive veggie production as well), I think you would all have >found it a relief to hear such views expressed so clearly and reasonably. > >I doubt if the programme is available to you in the US - it is made by a >small production company, one of many which provides interesting one off >programmes for Channel 4. > >G----- > >PS It was also interesting to see how the governement simply will not >release samples of BSE infected cows to anyone outside their labs to do >further analysis. Once diagnosed, the cow is the property of the >government, and independent researchers don't get a look in. > >++++++++ > >Dear Jeff, >The farm journal ACRES, USA has been running articles in recent years about >organic dairy farms in England which never had a downer-cow, or any traces >of BSE, but which also never used toxic pesticides to spray their cows as >is typical in non-organic dairys. Apparently, in past years dairymen hired >people to manually remove ticks from the cows, pulling them off by hand and >in generally giving the animals a good grooming periodically. No more. >Today, it is typical to run the cows through a chute and spray them with >toxic pesticides which kill the ticks, and also (as from your article, >above) to >suppress flies and other insects common to cows. Pesticides are probably a >major contributing cause of diseased cows -- in addition to feeding the >vegetarian cows the ground-up corpses of dead sheep and cattle, etc., plus >unnatural hormones, etc. Farming has become a toxic mess, as is our food >supply as well. Best to eat organic, all the way around. >James DeMeo, Ph.D. > > >********** > >OBRL News is a product of the non-profit >Orgone Biophysical Research Lab >Greensprings Research and Educational Center >PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA >http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm >demeo@mind.net > >Building upon the discoveries >of the late, great natural scientist, Dr. Wilhelm Reich > >To subscribe to OBRL-News, send the message: > subscribe obrl-news >to the following address: > Majordomo@lists.village.virginia.edu > >To unsubscribe, or change to a new email address, firstly: > unsubscribe obrl-news >to the same address above. >Then re-subscribe with your new address. > subscribe obrl-news > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 20:27:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA25194 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:27:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA03506; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:15:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03169 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:12:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10F6Qz-0000rP-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:14:49 -0800 Message-ID: <36D200BD.6FF10A5@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:13:33 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OBRL - RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. References: <004701be5eaf$48186a80$54431ccb@bio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 606 Dear Cheryl, Let me think about this for a while. When I was in England last fall, Walter Rudert (my farming teacher) and I discussed the spray-ons (onto cows) and he told me that the spray is interfering with the fetus of a cow in the third month. The third month is a very sensitive and touchy one, as we know (also in human life). It appears, he said, that in the third month a lot is happening with the formation of the cows (embrio's) brain and, as a matter of fact, is being paralyzed or killed off. The spongyform, i.e. the holes in the brain that do appear, are apparently 'pre-programmed' into the cow (fetus) at that time. He observed that the mad cow disease appeared on farms without contact to other farms nor did they feed ground cows, chicken or sheep. It is a real job to squeeze the magots out of the back of a cow (I did it for years) and they pop high up into the air - and if the cow has the (I think it is called the Warble Fly) you can loose up to 30% of the milk production (as this is really bothering the cow). I understand that the fly is laying its eggs into the grass from where the cow eats them AND then, the tiny larvae dig themselves through the muscle tissues to the top of the cow(s) where they transform themselves into (almost)2" long, white, fat grubs (larvae). From there they hatch and the fly continues its cycle. Why did we get these flies? Well, I believe that (I do not want to accuse him, but it is a fact) my neigbour sprayed chicken manure by the ton. Not only does this attract the flies but it produces a grass that is far too high in sugar (and therefore is starting to ferment with all sorts of fungal problems, decay and causing bloating). And it is a paradise for all kinds of worms, flies and fungi. You see, you always have a spillover effect (also of the good stuff, of course). But if a cow has to produce 6-8000 liters of milk per annum and more then, you have a weakend animal that is ready for such fly attacks. And Holsteins, as I had, are a very weakened strain, I must admit. I'd never have them again. (Especially Canadian Holsteins that are almost double of the German's) I had a thought on an observation, the other day, regarding deworming and old Finnish farming habits. In Finland, they grind the birch bark into a flour like powder and feed it to the cows. As we know, birch is a light carrier (the bark that is) and when you introduce this bark you may drive out the magots and worms. But, the healing has to start in the field(s). Our Warble Fly problem got better over the years as our BD soil improved. Incidentally, our meat cows (Black Angus) never got the Warble Fly. I shall meditate on this question and, if I can find some answers, I'll come back on it. Regards Ferdinand Cheryl Kemp wrote: > Dear BDNowers, > This is a very interesting article. I was listening to the radio this am > and there was an American Senior Extension Officer speaking about Johnes > Disease, a bovine wasting disease, which is a problem here in Australia, but > as she said, not nearly as big as in USA, where over 50% of cattle are > affected. I was wondering what the problem is, ? AI passing on the genetic > predisposition / immune system breakdown. But this idea of pour on sprays > is really interesting. It also interests me as when I think of other human > wasting diseases like Motor Neurone Disease (Lou Gehrigs Disease), I think > that this is caused by absorption of toxic chemicals going straight into the > central nervous system (via inhalation in humans) so could not the pour ons > also be affecting the CNS? > Is this an issue with your BD and Organic farmers in USA? I will ask re > Australian BD farmers, but I haven't heard of it amongst them. I bet > Ferdinand could have some interesting thoughts and pictures on this issue. > Cheryl Kemp > Education & Advisory Coordinator > Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. > of Australia Inc. > P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) > 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) > Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Intergalactic Garage > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Tuesday, 23 February 1999 5:05 am > Subject: OBRL - RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. > > >Forwarded by James Johnson > > > >From: OBRL-News > >To: obrl-news@lists.village.Virginia.EDU > >Subject:- RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. > > > >Orgone Biophysical Research Lab > >http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm > >Forwarded News Item > > > >Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups > > > > >========= > > > >You will all have been interested in a TV program shown here in the UK on > >Wednesday evening. This was made by Mark Purdey, an English organic dairy > >farmer, who started looking into BSE (so-called Mad Cow Disease). > > > >He is quite convinced that the cause of this is not contaminated feed > >(contaminated with sheep with Scrapie, a similar brain disease) but use > >of OP pesticides, particularly against warble fly, which involves pouring > >pints of pesticide over cows' skin. One key piece of supporting evidence > >is that nearly 10 years after contatminated feed was withdrawn, there are > >still thousands of new cases of BSE every year. > > > >He is looking at damage > >to protein prions in cow's brains from OP, and has become interested in > >the high rate of CFS, Alzheimers and MS amongst farmers, and people > >living near fields which are sprayed a lot. He also had support in his > >theories from a local GP (General Practioner), who is seeing more and > >more sick farmers, and a consultant at the Univesrity of Glasgow, who is > >convinced there is a link between OP exposure and CFS (or ME as we tend > >to call it here.) Several biochemists were also on to support his ideas. > > > >Depressing though this all is (and he did go on to talk about high levels > >of OPs in intensive veggie production as well), I think you would all have > >found it a relief to hear such views expressed so clearly and reasonably. > > > >I doubt if the programme is available to you in the US - it is made by a > >small production company, one of many which provides interesting one off > >programmes for Channel 4. > > > >G----- > > > >PS It was also interesting to see how the governement simply will not > >release samples of BSE infected cows to anyone outside their labs to do > >further analysis. Once diagnosed, the cow is the property of the > >government, and independent researchers don't get a look in. > > > >++++++++ > > > >Dear Jeff, > >The farm journal ACRES, USA has been running articles in recent years about > >organic dairy farms in England which never had a downer-cow, or any traces > >of BSE, but which also never used toxic pesticides to spray their cows as > >is typical in non-organic dairys. Apparently, in past years dairymen hired > >people to manually remove ticks from the cows, pulling them off by hand and > >in generally giving the animals a good grooming periodically. No more. > >Today, it is typical to run the cows through a chute and spray them with > >toxic pesticides which kill the ticks, and also (as from your article, > >above) to > >suppress flies and other insects common to cows. Pesticides are probably a > >major contributing cause of diseased cows -- in addition to feeding the > >vegetarian cows the ground-up corpses of dead sheep and cattle, etc., plus > >unnatural hormones, etc. Farming has become a toxic mess, as is our food > >supply as well. Best to eat organic, all the way around. > >James DeMeo, Ph.D. > > > > > >********** > > > >OBRL News is a product of the non-profit > >Orgone Biophysical Research Lab > >Greensprings Research and Educational Center > >PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA > >http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm > >demeo@mind.net > > > >Building upon the discoveries > >of the late, great natural scientist, Dr. Wilhelm Reich > > > >To subscribe to OBRL-News, send the message: > > subscribe obrl-news > >to the following address: > > Majordomo@lists.village.virginia.edu > > > >To unsubscribe, or change to a new email address, firstly: > > unsubscribe obrl-news > >to the same address above. > >Then re-subscribe with your new address. > > subscribe obrl-news > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 20:30:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA25259 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:30:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA04327; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:21:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04095 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:20:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0215.direct.ca ([204.244.83.31] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10F6Y0-0004f4-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:22:05 -0800 Message-ID: <36D2026F.4ED28E37@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:20:47 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: In honour of Rex Hadrill - Apprenticeship References: <36D19A91.FAB3236E@direct.ca> <36D1D45C.AFD366B7@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 607 Oh Rex, you are so qute! All the best Ferdinand Rex Harrill wrote: > Ferdinand Vondruska told a story about an 'apprentice': > > > Do you get it, Rex? > > Not exactly---everybody I know understands how to put a roof on. Who on > earth is responsible for bringing onboard someone who apparently could fail > the green-side-up test if laying sod? If you're describing the normal run > of your apprentice applicants, then I take back everything I suggested about > only taking on those with a burning desire to learn serious BD from an > acknowledged master. > > In your other message to me you mentioned the possibility of a farm school. > This roof business sounds more akin to a farm kindergarten. > > And, no, I don't have any apprentices. However, if I ever do they will > probably come aboard about as I suggested. Yes, I would feel like a fraud > if they left here and 20 years later wondered what they got for their sweat > and money. But, I venture, there's little chance of that because I'll be > busting my butt every minute they're here to teach them advanced agriculture > like they will never get in a high-priced ag school. And they *will* know > it. > > I'm trying to tell you to not sell yourself short---nothing more and nothing > less. > > > One must always be present - always. Don't leave your kind helper by > > him/herself. > > Would a Zen master understand a BD master speaking these words? If I'm > wrong, I'm wrong, but I view what you have to offer the novice as > light-years ahead of hand-holding. > > Or be you drinking that 5% beer and having fun with me? :) > > Regards, > Rex Harrill From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 20:31:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA25270 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:31:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA04226; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:21:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03824 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:17:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.211.141.167] (wt-d6-167.wt.net [208.211.141.167]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA23181; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:44:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:44:30 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: lamu@pop3.wt.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D1721A.4D1D@ipa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Andy Richker Subject: (Off) Re: Water Stirring: Discoveries in Bio-Dynamic Science Cc: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 608 >Water stirring is an interesting subject. > >First, I have two precious books that sit close by: > >"Living Water: Viktor Schauberger and the Secrets of >Natural Energy " by Olaf Alexandersson. > >"Living Energies: An Exposition of Concepts Related to >the Theories of Viktor Schauberger" by Callum Coats. > >One day a few years back I was reading along "Living Water" >when I came across the incredible passage about "Tonsingen" >or 'singing to clay', wherein Viktor Schauberger went to >be with an old farmer. The farmer was stirring water >that had clay (or clay loam soil) added to it, first in one >direction and then the other (creating a vortex). As he >stirred >Steve Diver >steved@attra.org Steve, I will Have to go back and reread this section. I don't remember it being clay and the fermenting. However I have found out that the Living Energies book is currently out of print and I think there are probably some stores that still have stock, if anybody knows where or has a suggestion where to buy it I welcome it, Thanks. Andy From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 23:20:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01344 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:20:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA25460; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:10:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25193 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:07:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10F99r-0003Nb-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:09:19 -0800 Message-ID: <36D229A3.5D8006B9@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:08:03 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: To Gwenda Robb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 609 Dear Gwenda, If you have a minute, can you contact me. I would like to know what program you are using that gives your post such a nice background. Many thanks Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Feb 22 23:26:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01519 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:26:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA25895; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:16:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from quark.pioneernet.net (pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25767 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:14:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902230414.XAA25767@envirolink.org> Received: from jan (208.240.197.86 [208.240.197.86]) by quark.pioneernet.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id F2DAG5H6; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:16:45 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "jan stettler" To: Subject: Bioengineering "smoke good!" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:04:48 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 610 Dear BD friends, We have a delicate situation here. Will BD be known as a bunch of people p---ing in the wind? Bioengineering is what's happening! Anyone who imagines that human beings are not being cloned, need to submit for testing! In ten years it will be abundantly clear that there are an entire fleet of human beings churned out of the scrapings of wealthy peoples cheeks! If Bt-potatoes are a bust, then it's a bust! Look at the limited data we have from Dr. Pusztai Rowett Lab in Aberdeen. The experimental protocol is very unclear. His experiments involved genetically manipulated plant toxin called "lectins." Is that even identical with that Bt-potatoes? Secondly, his control group were rats fed potatoes "spiked" with lectins. Why wasn't there a group fed just potatoes? The LD-50 studies made me very nervous about animal analogue studies. Dogs and sheep would die long before the rats. Are rats the best model? Clearly, in my own personal experience with rats, they will only eat potatoes in preference to starving to death. Are these results the best science? Sept. '98 Discovery magazine carried an article called "Vegitable Vaccines." Dr. Charles Arntzen was able to genetically engineer a potato with a set of proteins associated with E-coli. The test subjects (human) produced antibodies in response. Dr. Arntzen, believes that initiating a harmless immune response to a variety of serious diseases is equally possible. Cholera and hepatitus B, maybe eliminated by eating GM potatos. The seed cost for these potatos will be slight compared to the vaccine cost for dealing with these diseases. So friends, where does the truth lie? Let's see if Allan B. can't solicite Dr. Alan Kapuler to participate in the discussion. I've grown out varieties he's introduced in the same tradition as Luther Burbank. He is the one person who has managed to make me comfortable with the course of science in respect to bioengineering. Comfortable is not the same as being lax. There maybe harmfull things emerging, perhaps Bt-potatos are one. We''re farmers and amateur scientists at best. The real question is to me, how do we sort these developments without being stupidly reactionary? Tony Stettler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 01:12:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA03561 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:12:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA03807; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:03:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA03633 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:01:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.154] (max8-26.stc.net [208.210.134.154]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA10394 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:03:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <005d01be5e7c$65154140$664b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:40:11 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Biodynamic Berry Vines Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 611 >Not BD, but an organically-grown fruit/berry stock nursery I just found in >the latest Organic Gardening...Hidden Springs Nursery, 170 Hidden Springs >Lane, Cookeville, TN 38501. OG says that the 99 catalog includes >blueberries, grapes, currants, cranberries, lingonberries, mayhaws, pawpaws, >and hardy kiwis & much more, some being quite unusual. Catalog is $1. (am >ordering my copy today!) I'm not endorsing, having done no business with >them, yet but it does seem to be difficult to find organic nurseries, >doesn't it? > >Julie M. > >PS - Anyone know of a place to find organic apple tree stock? Anyone have >experience growing "Seaberries"(Hippohae rhamnoides). I know that "One Green >World" is big on them, but am not sure about that nursery's level of >pesticide/fungicide/etc. use. No mention of organic status is at their >website www.onegreenworld.com so I will assume the worst (but if anyone >knows differently....) > > >>By chance, does anyone carry biodynamic/organic berry vines for sale? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Pat Hironimus >>Simply Health Farms >> >> Dear Julie, For BD apple trees try Long Hungry Creek Nursery, Red Boiling Springs, TN 30715 Best, Hugh Hugh Lovel Union Agricultural Institute 8475 Dockery Road Blairsville, Georgia 30512 Ph.: 706 745-6056 Fx.: 706 745-2220 e-mail: uai@stc.net "When you learn to love Hell, you will be in Heaven." --Thaddeus Golas From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 03:15:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA04846 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 03:15:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA10420; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 03:04:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA10277 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 03:03:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-70.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.70]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA12014 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:04:34 +1100 Message-ID: <003d01be5f03$1ad59c60$46431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: OBRL - RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:52:12 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 612 Dear Ferdinand, Thankyou for your interesting answer re Mad Cow Disease. When you think of the effect of the pesticides acting as oestrogen mimickers and passing over the placental barriers, what else would you expect. In "Our Stolen Future" Theo Colburn feels that the effect on our human babies can happen at that critical time of 8-12 weeks and cause problems with fertility, sexual differentiation, learning abilities and hyper reactivity! I wonder if these kids have holes in their brains!? RE Johnes disease, that I wrote about too. I was thinking that it was a CNS Disease, but just so happened I had a chat to the Vet who has a practice next door to our place, and discussed Johnes Disease with her. She said it was a metabolic/digestion problem, that takes about 8 years to show up, and then can be seen as the animal wastes away. Trouble is, the cow would have got infected when she was a calf, probably from manure from infected cows, even her mother. They can do blood tests, but you have to check the whole herd, and costs a lot. They deal with it by culling whole herd. They are trying to keep it in certain areas and not have cattle sold from infected areas unless tested and cleared. The vet says it occurs on acid soils in areas in our southern states (Victoria) where there is a wet winter, and the cycle is not broken. I reckon BD farms would have a better chance of overcoming this problem, as the soil would be more in balance. I know that in NZ, the BD farms had little incidence of Facial Excema, which comes from bacterial spores growing in the soil in wet humid conditions. Cheryl. -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tuesday, 23 February 1999 12:19 pm Subject: Re: OBRL - RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. >Dear Cheryl, >Let me think about this for a while. When I was in England last fall, Walter >Rudert (my farming teacher) and I discussed the spray-ons (onto cows) and he >told me that the spray is interfering with the fetus of a cow in the third >month. The third month is a very sensitive and touchy one, as we know (also in >human life). It appears, he said, that in the third month a lot is happening >with the formation of the cows (embrio's) brain and, as a matter of fact, is >being paralyzed or killed off. The spongyform, i.e. the holes in the brain that >do appear, are apparently 'pre-programmed' into the cow (fetus) at that time. He >observed that the mad cow disease appeared on farms without contact to other >farms nor did they feed ground cows, chicken or sheep. > >It is a real job to squeeze the magots out of the back of a cow (I did it for >years) and they pop high up into the air - and if the cow has the (I think it is >called the Warble Fly) you can loose up to 30% of the milk production (as this >is really bothering the cow). I understand that the fly is laying its eggs into >the grass from where the cow eats them AND then, the tiny larvae dig themselves >through the muscle tissues to the top of the cow(s) where they transform >themselves into (almost)2" long, white, fat grubs (larvae). From there they >hatch and the fly continues its cycle. > >Why did we get these flies? Well, I believe that (I do not want to accuse him, >but it is a fact) my neigbour sprayed chicken manure by the ton. Not only does >this attract the flies but it produces a grass that is far too high in sugar >(and therefore is starting to ferment with all sorts of fungal problems, decay >and causing bloating). And it is a paradise for all kinds of worms, flies and >fungi. > >You see, you always have a spillover effect (also of the good stuff, of course). >But if a cow has to produce 6-8000 liters of milk per annum and more then, you >have a weakend animal that is ready for such fly attacks. And Holsteins, as I >had, are a very weakened strain, I must admit. I'd never have them again. >(Especially Canadian Holsteins that are almost double of the German's) > >I had a thought on an observation, the other day, regarding deworming and old >Finnish farming habits. In Finland, they grind the birch bark into a flour like >powder and feed it to the cows. As we know, birch is a light carrier (the bark >that is) and when you introduce this bark you may drive out the magots and >worms. > >But, the healing has to start in the field(s). Our Warble Fly problem got better >over the years as our BD soil improved. Incidentally, our meat cows (Black >Angus) never got the Warble Fly. > >I shall meditate on this question and, if I can find some answers, I'll come >back on it. >Regards Ferdinand > >Cheryl Kemp wrote: > >> Dear BDNowers, >> This is a very interesting article. I was listening to the radio this am >> and there was an American Senior Extension Officer speaking about Johnes >> Disease, a bovine wasting disease, which is a problem here in Australia, but >> as she said, not nearly as big as in USA, where over 50% of cattle are >> affected. I was wondering what the problem is, ? AI passing on the genetic >> predisposition / immune system breakdown. But this idea of pour on sprays >> is really interesting. It also interests me as when I think of other human >> wasting diseases like Motor Neurone Disease (Lou Gehrigs Disease), I think >> that this is caused by absorption of toxic chemicals going straight into the >> central nervous system (via inhalation in humans) so could not the pour ons >> also be affecting the CNS? >> Is this an issue with your BD and Organic farmers in USA? I will ask re >> Australian BD farmers, but I haven't heard of it amongst them. I bet >> Ferdinand could have some interesting thoughts and pictures on this issue. >> Cheryl Kemp >> Education & Advisory Coordinator >> Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. >> of Australia Inc. >> P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) >> 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) >> Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Intergalactic Garage >> To: bdnow@envirolink.org >> Date: Tuesday, 23 February 1999 5:05 am >> Subject: OBRL - RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. >> >> >Forwarded by James Johnson >> > >> >From: OBRL-News >> >To: obrl-news@lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> >Subject:- RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. >> > >> >Orgone Biophysical Research Lab >> >http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm >> >Forwarded News Item >> > >> >Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups >> >> > >> >========= >> > >> >You will all have been interested in a TV program shown here in the UK on >> >Wednesday evening. This was made by Mark Purdey, an English organic dairy >> >farmer, who started looking into BSE (so-called Mad Cow Disease). >> > >> >He is quite convinced that the cause of this is not contaminated feed >> >(contaminated with sheep with Scrapie, a similar brain disease) but use >> >of OP pesticides, particularly against warble fly, which involves pouring >> >pints of pesticide over cows' skin. One key piece of supporting evidence >> >is that nearly 10 years after contatminated feed was withdrawn, there are >> >still thousands of new cases of BSE every year. >> > >> >He is looking at damage >> >to protein prions in cow's brains from OP, and has become interested in >> >the high rate of CFS, Alzheimers and MS amongst farmers, and people >> >living near fields which are sprayed a lot. He also had support in his >> >theories from a local GP (General Practioner), who is seeing more and >> >more sick farmers, and a consultant at the Univesrity of Glasgow, who is >> >convinced there is a link between OP exposure and CFS (or ME as we tend >> >to call it here.) Several biochemists were also on to support his ideas. >> > >> >Depressing though this all is (and he did go on to talk about high levels >> >of OPs in intensive veggie production as well), I think you would all have >> >found it a relief to hear such views expressed so clearly and reasonably. >> > >> >I doubt if the programme is available to you in the US - it is made by a >> >small production company, one of many which provides interesting one off >> >programmes for Channel 4. >> > >> >G----- >> > >> >PS It was also interesting to see how the governement simply will not >> >release samples of BSE infected cows to anyone outside their labs to do >> >further analysis. Once diagnosed, the cow is the property of the >> >government, and independent researchers don't get a look in. >> > >> >++++++++ >> > >> >Dear Jeff, >> >The farm journal ACRES, USA has been running articles in recent years about >> >organic dairy farms in England which never had a downer-cow, or any traces >> >of BSE, but which also never used toxic pesticides to spray their cows as >> >is typical in non-organic dairys. Apparently, in past years dairymen hired >> >people to manually remove ticks from the cows, pulling them off by hand and >> >in generally giving the animals a good grooming periodically. No more. >> >Today, it is typical to run the cows through a chute and spray them with >> >toxic pesticides which kill the ticks, and also (as from your article, >> >above) to >> >suppress flies and other insects common to cows. Pesticides are probably a >> >major contributing cause of diseased cows -- in addition to feeding the >> >vegetarian cows the ground-up corpses of dead sheep and cattle, etc., plus >> >unnatural hormones, etc. Farming has become a toxic mess, as is our food >> >supply as well. Best to eat organic, all the way around. >> >James DeMeo, Ph.D. >> > >> > >> >********** >> > >> >OBRL News is a product of the non-profit >> >Orgone Biophysical Research Lab >> >Greensprings Research and Educational Center >> >PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA >> >http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm >> >demeo@mind.net >> > >> >Building upon the discoveries >> >of the late, great natural scientist, Dr. Wilhelm Reich >> > >> >To subscribe to OBRL-News, send the message: >> > subscribe obrl-news >> >to the following address: >> > Majordomo@lists.village.virginia.edu >> > >> >To unsubscribe, or change to a new email address, firstly: >> > unsubscribe obrl-news >> >to the same address above. >> >Then re-subscribe with your new address. >> > subscribe obrl-news >> > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 03:40:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA05031 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 03:40:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA12000; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 03:31:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA11831 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 03:28:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool019-max8.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.3.19]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA27189; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:30:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990223002546.008668a0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:25:46 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org, From: "Fred Chambers, FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu" Subject: Re: Hello from Croatia! In-Reply-To: <199902222011.VAA14048@bach.iskon.hr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 613 Hello from sunny and warm California, Jasminka! Please tell us all what y'all are up to in Croatia. Be assured that I wish you peace and prosperity in your homeland. What events, holidays, and work parties do you have planned for this Spring? Thanks, Fred PS: Why is your message dated Jan 10th? The lag time seems immense! PPS: I'm a 32-yr old guy, student of soil psychology, MS in sustainable aquaculture, treasurer of the Baja/Calif Permaculture Guild.) At 06:14 AM 1/10/99 +0100, Jasminka wrote: >I am a voulonteer and a member of the Croatian BD society The Living Earth >I have joined the mailing list recently >and just wanted to send you all the wet rainy regards from Croatia. >With smiles >Jasminka > >(26 yrs old girl, student of psychology, learning BD) > > > FMChambers@csupomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Black Walnut Alliance is one of many campus groups encouraging Cal Poly to explore environmentally responsible uses of campus green spaces. Visit and post at sites urging alternatives: http://www.csupomona.edu/~jmikeda/la401/cap/ (Clean Air Park Proposal) http://www.regen.org/bwecc.html (BWA's Energy Center Proposal) http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~muse/ (Multi-Use Development Strategy) http://www.rokcircle.com/bbs/ (The Wilderness Forum) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 07:34:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA07099 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:34:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA21676; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:25:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA21541 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:23:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.74] (pm3shep3-163-131.intrepid.net [209.190.163.131]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26922 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:25:13 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:25:14 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: FWD: Copntrails update Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 614 Mystery Contrails Said Analyzed To Be Ehtlyene Dibromide By Jhan Davis 2-1-99 Ethylene Dibromide Follow-Up Dear Jeff - Your website viewers may be interested in this EDB followup. We shouldn't be too hasty to conclude that our government is trying to exterminate us with ethylene dibromide (EDB). Our government has been known to make mistakes, big ones, without malice, and this is just one more of them. Occam's Razor points out a logical, simpler and less sinister explanation for the use of such a compound. For many years, the cloud seeder of choice was Silver Iodide, which was both expensive and produced less than optimal results. I believe that the origins of the health problem we're seeing with ethylene dibromide (as a seeder) can be resolved by a quick glance at the Periodic Table of Elements. Bromine sits directly above Iodine on the chart, which translates into very nearly identical chemical properties for the two elements. In its haste to engineer the weather, our government scientists would be driven by the periodic table to look for cheaper ways to create rain on demand, and that would instantly cause the scientists to select and test a (preferably already existing) bromine compound. Plus, the scientists would conclude prior to testing that the chemically lighter bromine compound just might diffuse better, form a condensate nucleus better and ultimately cause more precipitation than the old silver iodide. Mark this up to more government failure to test the product for its intended use before overpurchasing. Are we seeing more precipitation as a result of these tests? (OOPS!) And it would make sense to a government which overpurchased to dump the stuff in the sky where again the scientists would have told you that it would diffuse so as to be ineffective at ground level. They didn't take into account the tendency of the stuff to form glops and clobber pedestrians after being combined with JP-8 exhaust products which leave the final compressor stage at elevated temperatures. You can usually follow the money trail to the source of a government snafu. Now for the clincher. Some of your readers are claiming relief from their ethylene dibromide poisoning by ingesting silver compounds. Remember Silver Iodide? Well, it makes as much sense to bind your (unintentionally) extra bromine to silver as it did to bind iodine to silver for the original cloud seeder. Silver bromide is the result, and your system will eliminate it just as it will any other unnecessary chemical compound. But, your system will have a difficult time with any extra silver you ingest over and above the amount needed to bind the bromine in your system. Please let your readers know that overdoses of heavy metals can cause them as many problems as the bromine compound that got them into respiratory distress in the first place. Only ingest heavy metal compounds as prescribed by a licensed physician and after ethylene dibromide poisoning has been confirmed--which is not an "at the Doctor's office test" as explained by the fact sheet below ! However, your patients may wish to steer their Doctor towards a test for excessive bromine after exposure to the falling goop (as opposed to just assuming they've got the flu) because this stuff is so difficult to detect once it gets into your system. You may also wish to advise your readers to inform their elected representatives that the bromine compounds belong in certain over-the-counter medications--not as an aerosol to be administered in a medically uncontrolled environment such as walking down the street. The ethylene dibromide page will further interest your readers: http://atsdr1.atsdr.cdc.gov:8080/tfacts37.html - Jhan Davis ---- The lab director of Aqua-tech Environmental using samples taken from JP-8 contaminated fields of Maryland and Pennsylvania, reported today (9/18/97) that ethylene dibromide, otherwise known as EDB, has been the contaminate in the fuel and water samples submitted by farmers, pilots and tanker drivers. EDB is one of the most tightly controlled EPA substances and was banned in 1983 due to its carcinogenieity. EDB is a pesticide that apparently is being placed in the jet fuel and dispersed on a daily, almost non-stop basis in our skies. The lines filling our skies are not contrails. The lines are dispersed and may linger for hours, slowly filtering down to unsuspecting pests, and I guess we're the PESTS. Water samples are contaminated with EDB and crops are dying. EDB is just one more avenue for the N-O folks to starve us to death and make us ill by weakening our already compromised immune systems. Exposure to this toxic chemical may lead to ca--er, liver and kidney damage, pulmonary edema, damage to a developing fetus and reproductive organs of both men and women. Let's not forget that the chemical may also cause sterility. Doesn't that fit into their plan for population control? They have really found the perfect chemical. EDB is a carcinogen and a mutagen that may also cause eye and skin irritation, cardiopulmonary arrest, and binds to DNA. Skin blisters and respiratory failure are other conditions caused by ethylene dibromide. The conditions are too numerous to list but this will give you an idea of problems caused by this chemical. EDB is a carcinogen at any exposure level and humans are more susceptible than animals to the acute toxic affects. This does not mean that it will not kill animals. We have reports from California and Wyoming of the birds dying. Ethylene dibromide was used in leaded gasoline until 1983 to remove lead from engines and was found in engine exhaust. This chemical is a heavy liquid with a chloroform-like odor that becomes a gas at temperatures greater than 40 degrees F. The higher the temperature it is dispersed at the more toxic It becomes, therefore dispersing from a jet would be ideal, The compound is stable, meaning it does not easily decompose. This would account for the substance staying in the sky for long periods of time. EDB is only slightly soluble in water, but dissolves easily in organic solvents. JP-8 Is considered an organic solvent. A water sample from rain would be an excellent way to verify contamination and a fuel sample so much the better. Please note that EDB is a colorless liquid, with a sweet odor, however no smell does not mean you are not being exposed. Substances are also added that counteract the smell. Pilots please note that dispersing JP-8, along with these toxic chemicals is killing people. You are not counteracting any type of biological that has been spread, or any antidote of anytype. We now have proof that our gove--ent is using chemical agents on populated areas they are adding it to military jet fuel. Have you ever looked up at a vapor trail behind military aircraft flying so high a symbol of Ame-ica's power. Look again!! Commerical jets also leave a lovely (non-toxic) vapor trail when the heat from the turbines come in contact with the cool air, condensing the water droplets into steam. Softly the lines diffuse into the blue sky. So what is different about the military aircraft? The answer is simple. It's the Fuel JP-8+100 is some really bad stuff. When you look up over the skys of New York City on a clear, sunny morning you see the military aircraft making patterens across the sky with their vapor trails. The smoke is thick and does not go away. When it comes in contact with the sunlight it turns to a purple color, then dissipates into an overcast Purple Haze. So what is this Purple Haze? A fuel sample of JP-8+100 was taken to an independent lab (NON GOV-RMENT FUNDED) and broken down. The sample revealed two toxic substances. 1. Ethlyene Di Bromide 2. Zinc Chloride 1. EDB attacks the Liver, Lungs , and Skin, causing liver damage, Lung and skin C--cer. Also, EDB lowers the immune system by depleting the body of B vitamins and zinc. Answer to the problem--use a B Complex vitamin and Zinc. 2. We don't know the effects of Zinc Chloride yet. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 12:22:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14626 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:22:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA00923; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:11:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00550 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0207.direct.ca ([204.244.83.23] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10FLMr-0001Cl-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:11:33 -0800 Message-ID: <36D2E0D6.66E8245C@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:09:43 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OBRL - RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, The COW BEING References: <003d01be5f03$1ad59c60$46431ccb@bio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 615 Dear Cheryl, It is a joy talking to you. Just this morning when I was mucking out the stable I thought for myself, this year, I will declare (to myself) the year of the cow and that must mean that I will study the cow as thoroughly as possible. You have made a very good start with your contribution. You see, the cow is a totally rhythmical being. When you follow the herd (it is possible in our fields because they can go into the forest and fairly far away) you can observe them appearing in the same place daily. They lay down, ruminate, sleep, they get up, graze - walk to the water, eat again and so forth. Nothing is left to chance. I was sitting in the forest with them last summer and wanted to know WHAT makes them 'tick' - what makes them getting up and walk into the field to graze. Who would give the command to get up and go? And it was interesting. As if some kind of an etheric discharge would 'strike' or overcome them - it showed itself in a calf. It got up and stood there for a minute. Then, the mother cow got up, then another heifer and so forth until all of them were standing. Then, this time, the bull started to make a few steps, then the calf, the heifer and slowly the herd started to move towards the grass. And it was the same, day after day. They moved like one unit, forward, sidewise and onwards. Of course there are variations within the group but (statistically speaking) the herd acted like one being of which sometimes the leading cow took over, then a calf, then the bull and sometimes two or all of them. There was in-breathing, relaxing, out breathing, moving forward and so forth. The dropping of the manure happened at a certain time, the urination, too. And now, we lock that cow-being into a stable (I mean, what I described above, what I have observed....!... and there is much more to it) and we witness them being fed mechanically, milked mechanically, inject all kinds of chemicals, inseminate artificially, the calves locked away from the mother cows to get the milk etc. etc.- totally thrown out of their etheric rythm. With our industrially based actions we interfere tremendously with the etheric expressions of the cow being (it MUST have an opportunity to express itself rhythmically). And so, we profoundly damage the (overall) health of these animals. Let us not forget that cows cannot be isolated i.e. we do fine in Canada (and I, in my valley do even better) and you, in the US treat them badly. That does not work. Cows, and all of them, belong together into one big herd. They receive their wisdom and guidance from the same background. From one specific corner of the universe. This implies that the overall cow being is being damaged (or healed) by what we are doing to it in any place on this planet. So, my cows (like cells in my body) do feel the injustice that is being done to them in (say) Austria and will, therefore, act (by possibly getting ill) accordingly. Audumla, the cow of the heavens, in the Norse Mythology grazed the starry fields and brought healing and fertility to this earth. The cow that jumped over the church tower by Matisse, or, if you read: THE COSMIC PULSE OF LIFE BY TREVOR JAMES CONSTABLE. It is possible to photograph (heat sensitive film) those creatures that are hovering around the cow being and unite them all into one herd. Our interference does cause a sick cow that is attacked by viri and bacteria that want to eliminate those that have fallen or were ruthlessly pulled out of the herd (as would happen in nature where animals that fall outside the overall rhythm are eliminated) by predators). And one further thought. Rudolf Steiner is speaking of the Hoof and Mouth disease in one of his lectures (I think in the Ag Course). He does recommend to treat that illness with coffee (coffee that works on the heart, rhythm!). Many if not most illnesses in our cows are caused (as I see it) directly and indirectly by us not giving the cow(s) the possibility to express themselves rhythmically. This is a mouth full, I know. But I am strongly of that opinion (I am an extremist, Rex Hadrill, can U hear me? Wag your finger at me, please) Regards Ferdinand Cheryl Kemp wrote: > Dear Ferdinand, > Thankyou for your interesting answer re Mad Cow Disease. When you think of > the effect of the pesticides acting as oestrogen mimickers and passing over > the placental barriers, what else would you expect. In "Our Stolen Future" > Theo Colburn feels that the effect on our human babies can happen at that > critical time of 8-12 weeks and cause problems with fertility, sexual > differentiation, learning abilities and hyper reactivity! I wonder if these > kids have holes in their brains!? > > RE Johnes disease, that I wrote about too. I was thinking that it was a CNS > Disease, but just so happened I had a chat to the Vet who has a practice > next door to our place, and discussed Johnes Disease with her. She said it > was a metabolic/digestion problem, that takes about 8 years to show up, and > then can be seen as the animal wastes away. Trouble is, the cow would have > got infected when she was a calf, probably from manure from infected cows, > even her mother. They can do blood tests, but you have to check the whole > herd, and costs a lot. They deal with it by culling whole herd. They are > trying to keep it in certain areas and not have cattle sold from infected > areas unless tested and cleared. The vet says it occurs on acid soils in > areas in our southern states (Victoria) where there is a wet winter, and the > cycle is not broken. I reckon BD farms would have a better chance of > overcoming this problem, as the soil would be more in balance. I know that > in NZ, the BD farms had little incidence of Facial Excema, which comes from > bacterial spores growing in the soil in wet humid conditions. > Cheryl. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Tuesday, 23 February 1999 12:19 pm > Subject: Re: OBRL - RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. > > >Dear Cheryl, > >Let me think about this for a while. When I was in England last fall, > Walter > >Rudert (my farming teacher) and I discussed the spray-ons (onto cows) and > he > >told me that the spray is interfering with the fetus of a cow in the third > >month. The third month is a very sensitive and touchy one, as we know (also > in > >human life). It appears, he said, that in the third month a lot is > happening > >with the formation of the cows (embrio's) brain and, as a matter of fact, > is > >being paralyzed or killed off. The spongyform, i.e. the holes in the brain > that > >do appear, are apparently 'pre-programmed' into the cow (fetus) at that > time. He > >observed that the mad cow disease appeared on farms without contact to > other > >farms nor did they feed ground cows, chicken or sheep. > > > >It is a real job to squeeze the magots out of the back of a cow (I did it > for > >years) and they pop high up into the air - and if the cow has the (I think > it is > >called the Warble Fly) you can loose up to 30% of the milk production (as > this > >is really bothering the cow). I understand that the fly is laying its eggs > into > >the grass from where the cow eats them AND then, the tiny larvae dig > themselves > >through the muscle tissues to the top of the cow(s) where they transform > >themselves into (almost)2" long, white, fat grubs (larvae). From there they > >hatch and the fly continues its cycle. > > > >Why did we get these flies? Well, I believe that (I do not want to accuse > him, > >but it is a fact) my neigbour sprayed chicken manure by the ton. Not only > does > >this attract the flies but it produces a grass that is far too high in > sugar > >(and therefore is starting to ferment with all sorts of fungal problems, > decay > >and causing bloating). And it is a paradise for all kinds of worms, flies > and > >fungi. > > > >You see, you always have a spillover effect (also of the good stuff, of > course). > >But if a cow has to produce 6-8000 liters of milk per annum and more then, > you > >have a weakend animal that is ready for such fly attacks. And Holsteins, as > I > >had, are a very weakened strain, I must admit. I'd never have them again. > >(Especially Canadian Holsteins that are almost double of the German's) > > > >I had a thought on an observation, the other day, regarding deworming and > old > >Finnish farming habits. In Finland, they grind the birch bark into a flour > like > >powder and feed it to the cows. As we know, birch is a light carrier (the > bark > >that is) and when you introduce this bark you may drive out the magots and > >worms. > > > >But, the healing has to start in the field(s). Our Warble Fly problem got > better > >over the years as our BD soil improved. Incidentally, our meat cows (Black > >Angus) never got the Warble Fly. > > > >I shall meditate on this question and, if I can find some answers, I'll > come > >back on it. > >Regards Ferdinand > > > >Cheryl Kemp wrote: > > > >> Dear BDNowers, > >> This is a very interesting article. I was listening to the radio this am > >> and there was an American Senior Extension Officer speaking about Johnes > >> Disease, a bovine wasting disease, which is a problem here in Australia, > but > >> as she said, not nearly as big as in USA, where over 50% of cattle are > >> affected. I was wondering what the problem is, ? AI passing on the > genetic > >> predisposition / immune system breakdown. But this idea of pour on > sprays > >> is really interesting. It also interests me as when I think of other > human > >> wasting diseases like Motor Neurone Disease (Lou Gehrigs Disease), I > think > >> that this is caused by absorption of toxic chemicals going straight into > the > >> central nervous system (via inhalation in humans) so could not the pour > ons > >> also be affecting the CNS? > >> Is this an issue with your BD and Organic farmers in USA? I will ask re > >> Australian BD farmers, but I haven't heard of it amongst them. I bet > >> Ferdinand could have some interesting thoughts and pictures on this > issue. > >> Cheryl Kemp > >> Education & Advisory Coordinator > >> Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. > >> of Australia Inc. > >> P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) > >> 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) > >> Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Intergalactic Garage > >> To: bdnow@envirolink.org > >> Date: Tuesday, 23 February 1999 5:05 am > >> Subject: OBRL - RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. > >> > >> >Forwarded by James Johnson > >> > > >> >From: OBRL-News > >> >To: obrl-news@lists.village.Virginia.EDU > >> >Subject:- RE: Prions, Downer-Cows, etc. > >> > > >> >Orgone Biophysical Research Lab > >> >http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm > >> >Forwarded News Item > >> > > >> >Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups > >> > >> > > >> >========= > >> > > >> >You will all have been interested in a TV program shown here in the UK > on > >> >Wednesday evening. This was made by Mark Purdey, an English organic > dairy > >> >farmer, who started looking into BSE (so-called Mad Cow Disease). > >> > > >> >He is quite convinced that the cause of this is not contaminated feed > >> >(contaminated with sheep with Scrapie, a similar brain disease) but use > >> >of OP pesticides, particularly against warble fly, which involves > pouring > >> >pints of pesticide over cows' skin. One key piece of supporting evidence > >> >is that nearly 10 years after contatminated feed was withdrawn, there > are > >> >still thousands of new cases of BSE every year. > >> > > >> >He is looking at damage > >> >to protein prions in cow's brains from OP, and has become interested in > >> >the high rate of CFS, Alzheimers and MS amongst farmers, and people > >> >living near fields which are sprayed a lot. He also had support in his > >> >theories from a local GP (General Practioner), who is seeing more and > >> >more sick farmers, and a consultant at the Univesrity of Glasgow, who is > >> >convinced there is a link between OP exposure and CFS (or ME as we tend > >> >to call it here.) Several biochemists were also on to support his ideas. > >> > > >> >Depressing though this all is (and he did go on to talk about high > levels > >> >of OPs in intensive veggie production as well), I think you would all > have > >> >found it a relief to hear such views expressed so clearly and > reasonably. > >> > > >> >I doubt if the programme is available to you in the US - it is made by a > >> >small production company, one of many which provides interesting one off > >> >programmes for Channel 4. > >> > > >> >G----- > >> > > >> >PS It was also interesting to see how the governement simply will not > >> >release samples of BSE infected cows to anyone outside their labs to do > >> >further analysis. Once diagnosed, the cow is the property of the > >> >government, and independent researchers don't get a look in. > >> > > >> >++++++++ > >> > > >> >Dear Jeff, > >> >The farm journal ACRES, USA has been running articles in recent years > about > >> >organic dairy farms in England which never had a downer-cow, or any > traces > >> >of BSE, but which also never used toxic pesticides to spray their cows > as > >> >is typical in non-organic dairys. Apparently, in past years dairymen > hired > >> >people to manually remove ticks from the cows, pulling them off by hand > and > >> >in generally giving the animals a good grooming periodically. No more. > >> >Today, it is typical to run the cows through a chute and spray them with > >> >toxic pesticides which kill the ticks, and also (as from your article, > >> >above) to > >> >suppress flies and other insects common to cows. Pesticides are > probably a > >> >major contributing cause of diseased cows -- in addition to feeding the > >> >vegetarian cows the ground-up corpses of dead sheep and cattle, etc., > plus > >> >unnatural hormones, etc. Farming has become a toxic mess, as is our > food > >> >supply as well. Best to eat organic, all the way around. > >> >James DeMeo, Ph.D. > >> > > >> > > >> >********** > >> > > >> >OBRL News is a product of the non-profit > >> >Orgone Biophysical Research Lab > >> >Greensprings Research and Educational Center > >> >PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA > >> >http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm > >> >demeo@mind.net > >> > > >> >Building upon the discoveries > >> >of the late, great natural scientist, Dr. Wilhelm Reich > >> > > >> >To subscribe to OBRL-News, send the message: > >> > subscribe obrl-news > >> >to the following address: > >> > Majordomo@lists.village.virginia.edu > >> > > >> >To unsubscribe, or change to a new email address, firstly: > >> > unsubscribe obrl-news > >> >to the same address above. > >> >Then re-subscribe with your new address. > >> > subscribe obrl-news > >> > > > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 12:22:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14676 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:22:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01521; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:13:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00929 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.153] (pm3shep3-163-153.intrepid.net [209.190.163.153]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13630 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:13:12 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:14:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Paul Stamets Mushrooming Growing Workshop Oct 1-3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 616 I'd like to get some feedback from the list on what you think of Paul Stamet's workshops which are scheduled for the Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Conference Oct 1-3 of this year. I picked Paul because of the incredible presentation he does on mushrooms at the BIONEERS conference each year. A stunning tour in slides and lecture of the soil life web and the function of fungi wihtin it. I hope that everyone has a chance to see this presentation at some point. Even more impresssive, Paul has been working on developing strains of medicinal and gourmet mushrooms that are effective for remediation work. He's using mushrooms for converting piles of woodchips to 'compost,' buckets of espresso grounds to 'compost,' and for dealing with effluent from intensive cattle grazing operations. Not only do the mushrooms contribute to soil building, a good cash crop is produced for the farmer in the process. (Paul has developed some rather aggressive strains of these mushrooms and some very effective methods of 'innoculating' materials that just a few years ago couldn't be used for commercial mushroom production without sterilization first.) My interest in having Paul present at the fall conference was further piqued when someone posted to this list last fall that one of the measurable effects of the BD preps in a compost pile is that mycellium has been measured to grow 4x's faster!! I'm very interested in pursuing this apparently positive relationship between the BD preps and mushroom growth. My question to you, regardless of whether or not you can actually attend the conference this fall, is whether of not Paul's work is of interest or relevance to you. More information about Paul Stamets and the mushroom growing kits he sells (as well as his books) can be found at http://www.fungiperfecti.com Paul will be doing a 'mushroom cultivator's intensive' through the three days of the Mid-Atlantic confernece. Anyone who completes these workshops will have had instruction in all the materials contained in Paul's books 'The Mushroom Cultivator's Handbook' and "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms." This knowledge makes a grower substantially more effective (and cost effective!) than simply using the mushroom growing kits. Hugh Courtney, Hugh Lovel, Jerry Brunetti (rotational grazing workshops) and Steve McFadden (CSA roundtable and some other good stuff!) have already confirmed that they will be doing presentations at the conference also. (We are waiting to hear back from Native American plant use specialist Dr. Daniel Moerman.) Please let me know what you think! Thanks -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 14:41:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19646 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:41:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28552; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:29:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27745 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:26:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.121]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990223192010.PLJW3226200.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:20:10 +1300 Message-ID: <36D2FF82.4DD2@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:20:34 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Contrails update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 617 > I believe that the origins of the health problem we're seeing with ethylene dibromide (as a seeder) can be resolved by a quick glance at the Periodic Table of Elements. > > Bromine sits directly above Iodine on the chart, which translates >into very nearly identical chemical properties for the two elements. In the light of the Hydrogen the carrier of the Ego discussion this is an interesting situation. On the periodic table the other 'brothers' along the arm of bromide and Iodine are Chlorine and Flourine and then Hydrogen. When hydrogen is seen as an egoic element then so are the others which accounts for their carconigenic effects. Also noting RS comments that cancer is caused by the ego being held too strongly to the physical body. Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 14:45:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19712 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA29935; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:36:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f135.hotmail.com [207.82.251.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA29602 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:34:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 8287 invoked by uid 0); 23 Feb 1999 19:36:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19990223193603.8286.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:36:02 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Flow Form Moulds Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:36:02 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 618 Hi Hugh, I'm going to give this another try. A previous post didn't make contact. >>I've been collecting bits and pieces here and there of dimentions of the forms, some from NZ. How do we get in touch with him?>>Michael.> Him was the guy in your original post that stimulated the flow form topic. As best that I remember; Bob or Bill from Florida. By the way, sorry I took so long to reply. We've been bringing in the fish, cleaning the cage, and restocking fry. Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 14:50:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19834 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:50:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA29860; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:35:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA29137 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:32:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from khansen (awi0113.animalwelfare.com [207.96.27.29]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA09878 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:34:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <045001be5f63$e775a340$1d1b60cf@khansen.animalwelfare.com> From: "Kelly Hansen" To: Subject: FAQ on BD? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:37:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 619 I am very interested in the discussions on this list, but does anyone have a basic primer about BD for those of us who have just stumbled into this type of farming? Much of what everyone talks about is way over my head, but I would like to learn more. Thank you, Kelly -----Original Message----- From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 2:31 PM Subject: Contrails update >> I believe that the origins of the health problem we're seeing with ethylene dibromide (as a seeder) can be resolved by a quick glance at the Periodic Table of Elements. >> >> Bromine sits directly above Iodine on the chart, which translates >>into very nearly identical chemical properties for the two elements. > >In the light of the Hydrogen the carrier of the Ego discussion this is >an interesting situation. On the periodic table the other 'brothers' >along the arm of bromide and Iodine are Chlorine and Flourine and then >Hydrogen. > >When hydrogen is seen as an egoic element then so are the others which >accounts for their carconigenic effects. Also noting RS comments that >cancer is caused by the ego being held too strongly to the physical >body. > >Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 15:06:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20139 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:06:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA03544; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:51:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f206.hotmail.com [207.82.251.97]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA03160 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:49:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 6482 invoked by uid 0); 23 Feb 1999 19:51:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19990223195119.6481.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:51:19 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Stirring Barrel Compost Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:51:19 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 620 Dear Allan, I had written: >> I would like to suggest that the primary purpose here is focus. >> Stirring itself can be a strenuous task. With the tensioning of >>muscles we also engage cerebrial matter in the task, to bring to >>the stirring a sense of purpose, goals for the farm, and good >>wishes. This brings to my mind the saying; "Slow Down to Hurry Up" >>and the old childrens' story of the "Tortise and the Haire". to which you replied: Mabey "strain" is a harsher word than I should have used. I use a 5 gal kraut crock to stir in currently. RS mention that stirring should be virorus and also that one should be able to see the vortice. I am constantly attempting to create enough of a vortice to see the bottom of the crock. Anyway, after stirring and spraying I'm ready to sit down. Mabey I'm pushing it to an extreme, but I feel that the extra oxygen that goes into solution by stirring will be a benefit. Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 16:30:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA22074 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:30:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA18839; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:17:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18297 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:14:49 -0500 (EST) From: MCDOUGO@aol.com Received: from MCDOUGO@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DERRa20087 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:07:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2d01c46d.36d3189b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:07:39 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Paul Stamets Mushrooming Workshop Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 79 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 621 Allan, the lineup for the BD Conference sounds darn good to me. Thanks for all your work on this and the previous conferences! Doug. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 16:37:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA22309 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA20372; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:26:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19919 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:23:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0214.direct.ca ([204.244.83.30] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10FPKN-00059m-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:25:15 -0800 Message-ID: <36D31C77.B8FCBBDB@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:24:07 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Stirring Barrel Compost References: <19990223195119.6481.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 622 Dear Michael, I am stirring a 200 liter barrel (i.e.approx. 60 gal) and you do get a fine vortex. Of course I do stir smaller quantities as well but it is the rythm that makes it easy, really. The 60 gal barrel needs a lot of 'Schwung' (motion) to get going but once it is going it is like flying. The smaller barrels or crocks make me (personally) a bit too nervous. Make sure that U stir long enough into one direction, remove the stirring stick for about 5 - 7 seconds so that a 'mini Universe' can form and then, reverse the action with 'Schwung' - oxygen? Well, yes, that certainly is one of the factors. But what is more important, I think, is the message you key into the water and mix. Your individuality is locked into the water and thereafter sprayed onto garden and field. and so, your farm becomes 'your nest' - part of you or: you become part of the farm. All the best Ferdinand Michael Smith wrote: > Dear Allan, > > I had written: > > >> I would like to suggest that the primary purpose here is focus. > >> Stirring itself can be a strenuous task. With the tensioning of > >>muscles we also engage cerebrial matter in the task, to bring to > >>the stirring a sense of purpose, goals for the farm, and good > >>wishes. This brings to my mind the saying; "Slow Down to Hurry Up" > >>and the old childrens' story of the "Tortise and the Haire". > > to which you replied: > > is like walking - walking with an exciting companion. And, as U stir, > you are really making time. Stiring is creating time, in truth!> > > Mabey "strain" is a harsher word than I should have used. I use a 5 gal > kraut crock to stir in currently. RS mention that stirring should be > virorus and also that one should be able to see the vortice. > I am constantly attempting to create enough of a vortice to see the > bottom of the crock. Anyway, after stirring and spraying I'm ready to > sit down. Mabey I'm pushing it to an extreme, but I feel that the extra > oxygen that goes into solution by stirring will be a benefit. > > Michael. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 17:37:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA23806 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:37:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA01246; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:24:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00651 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:21:00 -0500 (EST) From: JHatf18942@aol.com Received: from JHatf18942@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XNMJa03537 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:57:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2270e242.36d3243f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:57:19 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Paul Stamets Mushrooming Workshop Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 623 Hello Allan. Being somewhat new to the list I would like to say thanks everyone for some stimulating reading. Besides growing fruit, veggies, and ginseng, our farm has been growing shiitake and oyster mushrooms for two years. I look forward to hearing what Paul has to say. Has there been any discussion of mushroom growing with BD in mind? Jeff Hatfield From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 17:57:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24605 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:57:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05106; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:45:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04838 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:44:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0216.direct.ca ([204.244.83.32] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10FQaQ-0004Nj-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:45:55 -0800 Message-ID: <36D32F5C.6939CA0A@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:44:44 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Paul Stamets Mushrooming Workshop References: <2270e242.36d3243f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 624 BD Mushroom growing....... T'is the most important thing one can think of since many a mushroom grower takes horse manure (or other stuff) from animals that were brought up on antibiotics, dewormer, hormones and a host of chemicals too large to count. And the mushrooms 'happily' slurp in the toxic stuff. I know that you fellas have to use non-rotten stuff on which the mushrooms can grow. So, purity is likely your quest if mushrooms are claimed to be produced the BD way. I would assume that you may have to link up with a BD hay/straw etc. grower to get good quality (woodsy) stuff. I understand that you people can use some wooden logs (for certain mushrooms) too. Well, that's as close as you can come to natural. I really believe that a BD mushroom needs a BD substrata such as mentioned before. Whether some of the sprays may make a difference - I really don't know? Regards Ferdinand JHatf18942@aol.com wrote: > Hello Allan. Being somewhat new to the list I would like to say thanks > everyone for some stimulating reading. Besides growing fruit, veggies, and > ginseng, our farm has been growing shiitake and oyster mushrooms for two > years. I look forward to hearing what Paul has to say. Has there been any > discussion of mushroom growing with BD in mind? > > Jeff Hatfield From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 18:03:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24727 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:03:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA06349; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:51:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05747 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:49:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.171] (pm3shep4-163-171.intrepid.net [209.190.163.171]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15019 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:50:55 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2270e242.36d3243f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:52:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Paul Stamets Mushrooming Workshop Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 625 >Hello Allan. Being somewhat new to the list I would like to say thanks >everyone for some stimulating reading. Besides growing fruit, veggies, and >ginseng, our farm has been growing shiitake and oyster mushrooms for two >years. I look forward to hearing what Paul has to say. Has there been any >discussion of mushroom growing with BD in mind? > >Jeff Hatfield > That's what one hopes for at a conference: creating a mix that hasn't quite been mixed before and hoping for some new paths to open for both growers and for thinkers. Incidentally, I don't know if you are aware of it or not, but Paul Stamets feels he can demonstrate that the symbiosis between leafcutter ants and fungi extends to the fungi, apparently through information attained through its mycellial web informing the ants of the location of plants to harvest: plants well outside of the ants normal sensory range. This is heady stuff! -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 18:11:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24876 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:11:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA28861; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:12:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA28162 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:09:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.131] (pm3shep3-163-142.intrepid.net [209.190.163.142]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07015 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:10:56 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <045001be5f63$e775a340$1d1b60cf@khansen.animalwelfare.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:10:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: FAQ on BD? Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 626 Dear Kelly - A thorough investigation of the BD Now! website at www.igg.com/bdnow will give you some good background on biodynamics (Pay particular attention to Hugh Lovel's BD Glossary). The http://www.biodynamics.net page is also very helpful. Aside from that, since you are 'down under,' pick up Peter Proctor's book GRASP the NETTLE, which is an excellent introduction to many aspects of biodynamic farming and gardening. Hugh Lovel's book is another great choice for 'getting into' biodynamics. Good Luck! -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 18:13:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24947 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:13:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA08530; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:03:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from anat.ncds.net (anat.ncds.net [207.250.242.12]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08335 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:02:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from HPAuthorizedCustomer (p00-18.ffxp.ncds.net [207.250.242.173]) by anat.ncds.net (8.8.7/8.8.7-sp) with SMTP id RAA08913 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:05:31 -0600 Message-ID: <004801be5f91$eb6df0a0$adf2facf@HPAuthorizedCustomer> From: "parker" To: Subject: an apprentice view Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:05:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01BE5F4E.A60FE560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 627 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BE5F4E.A60FE560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BD elders- As an apprentice of three seasons, I will voice some opinions of = working from the other side. The greatest opportunity in the world has = been provided for me through my teachings on the farm and garden. It has = been full of myth, and adventure, and science, and beauty, and many = other cosmic goings on that survive within the invisible tongue of lived = experience. The issue of money has been the only factor to bring down = this experience. We are sentient, ancient people forced to work within = the economic blatherings of a postmodern free market economy. We are all = being subject to the same type of economic pressures and even though the = elder is teaching the student, the student doesn't enjoy the same = security of farm as home. The learning is always worth more than the = money, but the student must leave the home as farm to re-enter the free = market economy. The pressure is unbelievable to learn a craft these days = while still being able to earn enough money to survive. I believe it is = important when one assesses the work of a student farmer to value in the = sacrifices being made by this person to reach for the "old language", = while coping with financial insecurity.=20 It takes a great deal to make that leap from apprentice/intern to = farm manager or owner. I have gone back and forth this winter about = being an over qualified poverty bound intern versus and under qualified = potentially poverty bound farm manager. I know this is the rub of many = folks who would love to work on farms. IT IS NOT THE MONEY! It is the = best life I know, I'm just deep into student loans like many of the = other people I know who want gain knowledge of a craft, of the land, of = the sacred whole. I don't mean to make light of the concerns of the = farmer/elders who expressed their views, just a note to broaden the = picture, maybe. to harvest mornings when one is waking up with a rhythm=20 -Parker ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BE5F4E.A60FE560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
     As an = apprentice=20 of three seasons, I will voice some opinions of working from the other = side. The=20 greatest opportunity in the world has been provided for me through my = teachings=20 on the farm and garden. It has been full of myth, and adventure, and = science,=20 and beauty, and many other cosmic goings on that survive within the = invisible=20 tongue of lived experience. The issue of money has been the only factor = to bring=20 down this experience. We are sentient, ancient people forced to work = within the=20 economic blatherings of a postmodern free market economy. We are all = being=20 subject to the same type of economic pressures and even though the elder = is=20 teaching the student, the student doesn't enjoy the same security of = farm as=20 home. The learning is always worth more than the money, but the student = must=20 leave the home as farm to re-enter the free market economy. The pressure = is=20 unbelievable to learn a craft these days while still being able to earn = enough=20 money to survive. I believe it is important when one assesses the work = of a=20 student farmer to value in the sacrifices being made by this person to = reach for=20 the "old language", while coping with financial insecurity.=20
     It takes a great deal to make that = leap from=20 apprentice/intern to farm manager or owner. I have gone back and forth = this=20 winter about being an over qualified poverty bound intern versus and = under=20 qualified potentially poverty bound farm manager. I know this is the rub = of many=20 folks who would love to work on farms. IT IS NOT THE MONEY! It is the = best life=20 I know, I'm just deep into student loans like many of the other people I = know=20 who want gain knowledge of a craft, of the land, of the sacred whole. I = don't=20 mean to make light of the concerns of the farmer/elders who expressed = their=20 views, just a note to broaden the picture, maybe.
 
 
to harvest = mornings when one=20 is waking up with a rhythm
-Parker
------=_NextPart_000_0045_01BE5F4E.A60FE560-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 20:55:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA27754 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:55:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA26699; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:43:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26518 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:41:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.211.141.203] (wt-d6-203.wt.net [208.211.141.203]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA13138; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:34:28 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:34:28 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: lamu@pop3.wt.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902230414.XAA25767@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Andy Richker Subject: Re: Bioengineering "smoke good!" Cc: "jan stettler" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 628 Tony, I am very unclear about what your are trying to say here. Could you please clarify? >Dear BD friends, > We have a delicate situation here. Will BD be known as a bunch of >people >p---ing in the wind? Bioengineering is what's >happening! Is this a joke or are you serious, before I go off on my diatribe. > If Bt-potatoes are a bust, then it's a bust! Look at the limited >data we >have from Dr. Pusztai Rowett Lab in Aberdeen. Hmmm, did you want the Bt-Potatoes to be not a bust? > Sept. '98 Discovery magazine carried an article called "Vegitable >Vaccines." Dr. Charles Arntzen was able to genetically >engineer a potato with a set of proteins associated with E-coli. The test >subjects (human) produced antibodies in response. >Dr. Arntzen, believes that initiating a harmless immune response to a >variety of serious diseases is equally possible. Cholera and >hepatitus B, maybe eliminated by eating GM potatos. The seed cost for >these potatos will be slight compared to the vaccine cost >for dealing with these diseases. Tony do you believe this could be a good idea?? Please clarify. > So friends, where does the truth lie? Let's see if Allan B. can't >solicite Dr. Alan Kapuler to participate in the discussion. >From my readings about Dr Alan Kapuler, I don't think there would be anyu support whatsoever for bioengineering at all. Am I wrong here? >There maybe >harmfull things emerging, perhaps Bt-potatos are one. That and the myriad of other wonderful Ag aids like organo-phosphates, pesticides, etc... oops sorry I'm headed into a rant. > We''re farmers and >amateur scientists at best. The real question is to me, >how do we sort these developments without being stupidly reactionary? Now you stumped me again here. Do you think the act of refusing to accept the above things like Bt-Potatoes and harmless proteins (as harmless as x-rays in the '30s, or as harmless as Agent Orange, etc....) for vaccines is 'being stupidly reactionary'?? Help me out here, Tony. Thanks, Andy > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 21:09:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA27967 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:09:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA28516; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:59:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27912 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:54:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0105.direct.ca ([204.244.83.5] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10FTYY-00078X-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:56:10 -0800 Message-ID: <36D35BF8.EC94FFBA@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:55:04 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Bill Gates - can anybody verify this post! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 629 Eerie news about Bill Gates and Microsoft Since we're all using Microsoft products here, I thought I'd just let you know these facts...do you know that Bill Gates' real name is William Henry Gates III? Nowadays, he is known as Bill Gates (III) So what's so eerie about this name? Ok, if you take all the letters in bill gates III and then convert it into ASCII code (American Standard Code for Info. Interchange) and then add up all the numbers.... You will get 666, which is the number of the beast. B = 66 I = 73 L = 76 L = 76 G = 71 A = 65 T = 84 E = 69 S = 83 I = 1 I = 1 I = 1 Add these numbers and they equal 666. Coincidence? Maybe, but take Windows 95 and do the same procedure and you will get 666, too. And even MS-DOS 6.31 adds up to 666. Still think it is coincidence? Okay, now for the good part. For those of you who still have the old excel 95 (not office 97) try this out: 1. Open a new file 2. Scroll down to row 95 3. Click on the row 95 button to highlight the entire row 4. Press tab to move to the second column 5. Now, move your mouse and click on help at the top 6. Then click on "about Microsoft excel" 7. Press ctrl-alt-shift and click on the tech support button at the same time 8. A window will appear with the title: THE HALL OF TORTURED SOULS This is really eerie, okay. It has a doom style format and you can walk all around the hall using the arrow keys. And on the sides of the walls are the names of the tortured souls... Now walk up the stairs and then come back down, facing the blank wall. Now type in EXCELKFA this will open the blank wall to reveal another secret passage, walk through the passage and do not fall off. This is difficult to do. When you get to the end, you will see something really really eerie. As of this point in time, countless witnesses all over the world have verified that it is a real eye opener. It could be a joke by MS programmers. Or is it? Would it be too surprising if Bill Gates was the antichrist? After all, the bible foretells that someone powerful would rise up and lead the world to destruction. And Bill Gates definitely has this kind of power in his hands. More than 80% of computers in the world today run on windows and DOS (including those at the Pentagon) If all of his products have some kind of small program embedded, like this "hall of tortured souls," that can give him control to set off nuclear arsenals, create havoc in security systems and financial systems all over the world, etc. All from his headquarters. This isn't too far from reality. Just by using the Internet, Explorer may just allow him to map out what you have on your computer bit by bit each time you log on. Perhaps the end of time is near and this is just the tip of the iceberg? Quote from the bible "He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666." Revelation 13:16-18 This is something you should think about. If the bible, in the book of Revelations, says that without the sign of the beast, one would not be able to buy, sell, do business transactions, etc., then my question to you now is this.... Is the Internet a necessity today for doing business? The Internet also bears the sign. Note that the Internet is often referred to as the World Wide Web, or www. Another way to write W is V/ or VI. W W W VI VI VI 6 6 6 Here is something to ponder on. Isn't everything going towards the Internet? (i.e. buying, selling, business transactions) Isn't Microsoft always on the move to have a monopoly when it comes to software technology? And now the Internet? Revelations also says that the mark of the beast will be carved on one's hand and on one's forehead. If the Internet would indeed be the sign of the beast, aren't we all starting to carry it on our hands and foreheads? The screen is the forehead and the hand uses the mouse. Are things finally starting to fall into place or are we just letting our imagination run? Remember, the devil came to cheat, steal, and to destroy. So be vigilant about Bill Gates and Microsoft. "To agree or to not agree with the WWW or the beast," is not the question. What if the WWW is the 666? Or Bill Gates be the beast? What will you do? Cancel subscriptions to the Internet? Resign from Microsoft? Set out a campaign against Bill Gates in the Internet? Shut down all Windows 95 forever? It will not do any good. Think about all of this and pray. Pray really hard!! Received today and would love to hear from you although it does not have to do a lot with BD; however, we also discussed Y2K, didn't we? Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 21:31:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28261 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:31:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA01272; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:20:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00947 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:18:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0105.direct.ca ([204.244.83.5] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10FT4b-0000oI-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:25:13 -0800 Message-ID: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:23:46 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Bioneering 'Smoke good' Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 630 Dear Tony Stetler, For me the question really is not so much whether we are p...ing into the wind, it is rather: do we really know who we are and what we want to be? I do not know whether I have understood your 'challenge' properly, but I wish to make the following comments: The soil, plants, animals and man have been worked on by the cosmos (just look up and see what is there) for eons. Even if we assume that there is no God, nothing else but an electrical- cosmic- irradiating power field. Something appears to have created us. That something is truly much, much smarter than us. Now, in our rather narrow minded approach (excluding that which is out there, denying it in total) we are starting to play creator(s). We start with certain assumptions and spin them forward. We do not even give (ourselves) i.e. nature a chance to explain. We abandoned all and every possible link to an overall nature spirit for the sake of a few, profit minded ideas (read Monsanto, Novartis etc. etc.) We abandoned the long term approach (generations) for the very short term approach (20 years?). For many hundred of years it is known that, for example, grain can be improved IF you take the 6th grain of an ear (you can take the 6th seed of any plant and you will have the same, excellent results). Now, if you take the 6th seed and pant 6th seed(s) into a seed bed, you will have a new pant. And of that plant you will, again, take the 6th seed. In the olden days, in the time of our forefathers, there were many seed and crop challenges. Our forefathers realized that there were crop problems, failures etc. But they did not look at the plant with a microscope. They looked at a whole wheat field and they observed, meditated. They looked at the plants that were growing in, besides and at times farther afield. They realized that there were certain (natural) reoccurring field and growth laws. And these laws could be observed IF one opened ones eyes and one's mind. And so, with what they observed, they improved (in this instance) wheat. Do not believe that the wheat plant suddenly appeared on this earth. Never. Wheat was carefully crafted by human beings for many hundreds, nay, thousands of years. From grasses to wheat. Done by priests. By initiates. By people who did not work for an egotistic profit but rather for the good of the entire community. Because they knew that if the community fails, they'd fail, too. Today, few industrialists believe that if YOU and I are in trouble, they are in trouble, too. The less we earn, the sicker we are, the unhappier we are etc. etc. to more the industrialists are in trouble, too. But they do not see it that way. And so, take the 6th seed and plant. But, go one step further. Make a seed box, my friend. A seed box that looks a bit like an wheat ear. o.k.? With as many departments as there are kernels. You may have 30 or 40 or more kernels on one ear. And each of them will (likely) sprout into a new plant. And now, what can you experience when they grow? The lower seeds will grow into quantitative plants. Here you have huge seeds, heavy etc. etc. The higher up seeds, however, are called the cosmic seeds. They will produce thin, often small plants that are blight and illness resistant; however, they do not yield heavy crops. Here we have the quality corps. It will take time, my friend, to sort out the best plants. But, it will cost much, much less than what the industry is charging you and I for their tests - and they charge us, don't kid yourselves. We pay for their tests through our bleeding and bloodied noses. We pay with our taxes (because they can write off their tests and pay less than they should) - we pay for a lot of goods much more than we ought to, because they unload their R&D expenses onto it. We pay via inflation because nonsense causes the death of money. (The military, for example, destroying fields and rivers and the clean up, costs money for something that does not produce a thing). And so, their nonsensical R&D causes a lot of inflation. Valueless money. Their damages to the environment will increase our insurance premium(s) and so forth and so on. Here, with the so called 6th seed research, you have a very simple tool to make good progress with the Gene Engineering, if you want to call it that way, of wheat. But, what is most interesting in this test is this; We do not change the plant as such. We expose the plant to the cosmos with the help of BD preparations. We let the cosmos work (engineer) on that 6th seed. We use Valerian and spray on our seed and we observe what Valerian Preparation can do to the next generation. We use certain composts. We use meditation in order to strengthen the influences of certain cosmic messages. We use the star calendar. My friend, if you do this, you have to look up to the stars and not into your employers bank account and say: I will do anything, as long as you pay as much as I demand. That's what many scientists do. They will do anything for money. In addition, they will arrange tests in such a way that they fit the needs of those who have asked for. Corruption? Lies? Or worse? Well, I leave it to you. The 6th seed test was discovered by a (now dead) German farmer who worked with Dr. Steiner's indications (his name was Schmidt). Others have worked on these ideas, too. But, and here comes the big but: you do not make money if you work on the improvement and betterment of the community. No! You make a living, but no money. Our industry has become the same what grew out of the protecting knights and kings of the Middle Ages. Almost all of them became suppressers. Our industry has become a huge millstone around our neck and is about to drag us down into a cloned, GE ingeneered, irradiated etc. etc. abyss. In the not too distant future you will ask yourself why on earth you have ever listened to 'them'. My brother, who is a (darn....no, I should be nice) who is a real materialist said to me: if we have one Nuclear accident in central Europe of the size of Chernobyl, science is doomed, forever. We will lynch'em all. Only the Russians allowed an area of the size of several times Switzerland to be totally polluted. On the other hand, I think they will establish such a military dictatorship the world has never ever seen til now. And we are on the way to it. Tony, we are on the very brink of such Chernobyl like catastrophe. A few very, super rich conglomerates have taken your and my and everybody's evolution into their hands and said to themselves: Go to hell with your cosmos. Go to hell with what you believe. We shall decide what is good or best for mankind - and in that world, there ain't no place for spiritual stuff. There ain't no space for anything that you may think to be cosmic. There is only space for our 'shareholders' - and that's us. Try to look at your 'pi...ing into the wind essay' once more and ask: what is your heart telling you. You may suddenly realize that we may have neglected to look out into the cosmos! If we rise our heads with love filled hearts and open minds we soon will be as far ahead in plant propagation as the chemical industry AND FURTHER - They have drawn a line in the sand - we open ourselves to the cosmos! Do we listen to our hearts? Do we really believe and trust the methods Dr. Steiner has given to us? They make us independent and not slaves to those who want to exploit us. Dr. Steiner's ideas take away the fear and make us free. I've said enough. There are possibilities to get away from the GE-crowd. I'll try my very best that our foundation find the money to see whether a GE-plant can be unlocked and be brought back into the (cosmic) fold again. Since, I strongly believe: what we have done in egotism we must undo and bring back to the community - before we can move onto the next higher level of evolution. Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 22:08:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA28711 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:08:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA05204; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:57:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.javanet.com (mail1.javanet.com [205.219.162.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04912 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:54:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from 209.150.32.176 (armory-hiper1174.javanet.com [209.150.32.176]) by mail1.javanet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA17174 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:56:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36D36BED.42D4@javanet.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:03:26 -0500 From: Christian Elwell Organization: South River Miso Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-NSCP (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' References: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 631 Dear Ferdinand, Ihave been growing a short grain upland variety of rice here in Massachusetts for a number of years, along with other small grains. I am very interested to learn more about the "6th seed" research and method of seed care/selection. Can you tell us which is the 6th grain on an ear of wheat for instance? Are you counting from the bottom, or, from the top? Why the 6th seed? Is there published reference(s) we can refer to, how to use/apply this method of seed selection? Thank you! Christian Elwell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 23:56:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA00196 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:56:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA16983; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:45:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA13548 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:09:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.82] (pm3shep2-163-82.intrepid.net [209.190.163.82]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17067 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:11:25 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:37:24 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 632 Dear Ferdinand, Ihave been growing a short grain upland variety of rice here in Massachusetts for a number of years, along with other small grains. I am very interested to learn more about the "6th seed" research and method of seed care/selection. Can you tell us which is the 6th grain on an ear of wheat for instance? Are you counting from the bottom, or, from the top? Why the 6th seed? Is there published reference(s) we can refer to, how to use/apply this method of seed selection? Thank you! Christian Elwell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Feb 23 23:57:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA00204 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:57:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA16898; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:44:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA13472 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:08:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.211.141.203] (wt-d6-197.wt.net [208.211.141.197]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA27257 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:35:41 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:35:41 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Andy R Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 633 Excellant response, Thanks for the enlightenment Ferdy, Andy >Dear Tony Stetler, > >For me the question really is not so much whether we are p...ing into >the wind, it is rather: do we really know who we are and what we want to >be? > >I do not know whether I have understood your 'challenge' properly, but I >wish to make the following comments: >For many hundred of years it is known that, for example, grain can be >improved IF you take the 6th grain of an ear (you can take the 6th seed >of any plant and you will have the same, excellent results). Now, if you >take the 6th seed and pant 6th seed(s) into a seed bed, you will have a >new pant. And of that plant you will, again, take the 6th seed. In the >olden days, in the time of our forefathers, there were many seed and >crop challenges. Our forefathers realized that there were crop problems, snip > Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 00:13:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA00505 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:13:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA18669; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:02:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18281 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:59:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.34.184.132 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:01:19 -0800 Message-ID: <002201be5fb2$4a034be0$84b82299@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: Re: FAQ on BD? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:58:14 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 634 Dear Kelly, Great question! We ought to have a FAQ (or several) on biodynamics. Here are some of the now more numerous webpages available with information on biodynamics. None really have what we call a traditional FAQ. Sherry Wildfeuer, for many years the Director of the Biodynamic Training Program in Kimberton, Pennsylvania, wrote the following short piece, which comes as close as anything out there to a FAQ :http://www.steinercollege.org/anthrop/sn.html The North American Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association, which has carried the banner of biodynamics in North America since 1939, has a website at http://www.biodynamics.com. For a public perception (Sacramento Bee) check out: http://www.sacbee.com/home/gardening/ingarden/biodynamic.html You might also check out which is the philosophy behind biodynamics at http://www.anthroposophy.org/ http://www.bampfa.berkeley.edu/exhibits/steiner/weblinks.html http://www.anthropress.org/press/biodynamic.html http://www.elib.com/Steiner/Lectures/ . http://www.anthroposophy.net/categories/index.htm In the following please find a links list, that may also help you further. http://www.biodynamic.net/ http://www.angelfire.com/id/biobaby/ http://www.igg.com/bdnow/ http://www.steinercollege.org/anthrop/mfai.html http://www.agsyn.com Cheers, Andrew >Dear Kelly - > >A thorough investigation of the BD Now! website at www.igg.com/bdnow will >give you some good background on biodynamics (Pay particular attention to >Hugh Lovel's BD Glossary). The http://www.biodynamics.net page is also very >helpful. > >Aside from that, since you are 'down under,' pick up Peter Proctor's book >GRASP the NETTLE, which is an excellent introduction to many aspects of >biodynamic farming and gardening. Hugh Lovel's book is another great choice >for 'getting into' biodynamics. > > >Good Luck! > >-Allan Balliett >moderator, BD NOW! > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 00:27:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA00718 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:27:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA21091; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:16:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA21002 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:16:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.34.184.132 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:17:32 -0800 Message-ID: <004701be5fb4$8dac8bc0$84b82299@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: OFF Bill Gates - can anybody verify this post! Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:14:27 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 635 Dear Ferdinand and others, I get many inquiries about biodynamics from public sources: TV stations, newspapers, universities, non-profits, students and other friends. They all are interested in knowing more about biodynamics as a way of working with agriculture. I try to give them a few simple points about biodynamics, suggest that they visit biodynamic farms and gardens, perhaps pick up a book or two and check out the web. People always ask about the web and information. So I give them the list I just posted for Kelly. Including this BDNow list. I still read the posts here, often to my delight, even if I cannot participate the way I would like due to time constraints. However, posts like this one on Bill Gates, despite being interesting perhaps to some, have little to offer those seeking information and conversation on biodynamics. PLEASE, at least post such notes with the OFF prefix to indicate that it is OFF topic. The quality of our BDNow list will improve if we stay on topic and focus on biodynamics. Bill Gates, the Antichrist and other computer related issues belong, IMHO, on a different list. Sincerely, Andrew From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 03:15:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA02328 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 03:15:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA03242; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 03:01:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA27054 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:24:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.59]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:12:40 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990223220650.0082daf0@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:06:50 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad von Zirkwitz Subject: OFF - mark of the beast stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 636 Hey Ferdy, Speaking of the mark of the beast, here is a fella who has inserted a chip in his arm, a chip specifically designed for identification. They have these chips one can get for their pets to scan them and id them, there was another person who wanted to put these in children, for id purposes http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/chiptransplant980825.html Well, perhaps this is another take on the mark of the beast that we will all need in order to business. Big business is moving towards a cashless society, look at how popular credit cards and interact/cirrus have become. Check out this site, it's the future of electronic cash as marketed by MasterCard under the name of Mondex. http://www.mondex.com Mondex is pushing a electronic cash card which uses the same chip as the above Doctor implanted in himself. This chip seems to be a standard (read monopoly) type item and is about the size of a grain of rice (from Revelations). http://rapidttp.com/transponder/newsindx.html http://www.trovan.com/transponders.html http://www.abio.com/ http://www.biomark.com/ Seems a little bit curious, though the world is demanding a lot more information about us all these days. The internet constantly demands to know information about myself, and then I get all sorts of virtual junk mail. Another thing about Bill Gates, he's planning on moving the internet up into the sky. This year, Bill Gates and his peers are putting 288 low obiting satellites up there. Maybe Steiner had something to say about this? http://www.teledesic.com/tech/details.html Sincerely, Conrad From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 06:11:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA04362 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:11:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA11660; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:01:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA02027 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:38:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0105.direct.ca ([204.244.83.5] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10FYvU-0004hv-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:40:13 -0800 Message-ID: <36D3AC8E.491A3379@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:38:54 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' References: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> <36D36BED.42D4@javanet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 637 Dear Christian, You count the 6th seed from the bottom up. IF you can speak German, then, please go to the following Website http://www.hera-ev.de/ and you may find further references. Otherwise, I'll have so translating to do and also get in contact with our forester who is working with this question regularly. Regards Ferdinand Christian Elwell wrote: > Dear Ferdinand, > > Ihave been growing a short grain upland variety of rice here in > Massachusetts for a number of years, along with other small grains. I am > very interested to learn more about the "6th seed" research and method > of seed care/selection. Can you tell us which is the 6th grain on an ear > of wheat for instance? Are you counting from the bottom, or, from the > top? Why the 6th seed? Is there published reference(s) we can refer to, > how to use/apply this method of seed selection? Thank you! Christian > Elwell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 06:11:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA04383 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:11:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA11790; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:02:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from bach.iskon.hr (root@bach.iskon.hr [195.29.170.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA07827 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 04:39:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from smich (dialin002.iskon.hr [195.29.170.142]) by bach.iskon.hr (8.9.2/9.9.9) with ESMTP id KAA05595 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:41:26 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902240941.KAA05595@bach.iskon.hr> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "Jasminka" To: Subject: BD in Croatia Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:48:55 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 638 Hello Ferdinand, Andrew, Fred and alll! Thank you for the warm welcome. The Living Earth is the Croatian BD asociation. As Croatia is small, it is relatively easy to be a national association. We organize the education and promotion of the BD practices and we all learn together. Slowly, but now already for five years, the association has been preparing the series of lectures on agriculture and BD and homeodynamic etc. Among our lecturers were, and we hope they will be again Maria and Mathias Thun (Austria - we publish their lunar sowing calender) Menzo de Boom, dr. eco. agro. from Australia; Anamarija Slabe, graduate eng. agro. from Ljubljana; Enzo Nastati, a homeodynamic expert from Trieste; Ivan Hajduk, a member of the "Living Earth"; Zlata Nanić, the president of the "Living Earth" society, a lecturer at health food seminars. The asociation is not big, but we have some very experienced people working with us and I am grateful to be part of it. I myself started to voulonteer with the Living Earth a year ago and am going to continue untill my graduation. Than, I will start to "farm/garden". This year we have workshops on BD preparations, antropozophy, some gatherings. For example the next weekend the workshop will be held on the homeodynamic work with seeds for their protection and saving. That much for now, from the other end of the world :-) Light and smiles Jasminka From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 06:13:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA04393 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:13:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA11734; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:02:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA02243 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:43:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0105.direct.ca ([204.244.83.5] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10FZ0B-0007OT-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:45:03 -0800 Message-ID: <36D3ADB1.DEA287DD@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:43:45 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF Bill Gates - can anybody verify this post! OFF TOPICS References: <004701be5fb4$8dac8bc0$84b82299@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 639 Will be done! Regards Ferdinand Dr. Andrew Lorand wrote: > Dear Ferdinand and others, > > I get many inquiries about biodynamics from public sources: TV stations, > newspapers, universities, non-profits, students and other friends. They all > are interested in knowing more about biodynamics as a way of working with > agriculture. I try to give them a few simple points about biodynamics, > suggest that they visit biodynamic farms and gardens, perhaps pick up a book > or two and check out the web. People always ask about the web and > information. So I give them the list I just posted for Kelly. Including this > BDNow list. I still read the posts here, often to my delight, even if I > cannot participate the way I would like due to time constraints. > > However, posts like this one on Bill Gates, despite being interesting > perhaps to some, have little to offer those seeking information and > conversation on biodynamics. PLEASE, at least post such notes with the OFF > prefix to indicate that it is OFF topic. The quality of our BDNow list will > improve if we stay on topic and focus on biodynamics. Bill Gates, the > Antichrist and other computer related issues belong, IMHO, on a different > list. > > Sincerely, > Andrew From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 09:11:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA06940 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:11:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA23042; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:02:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA18411 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:56:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.82] (pm3shep3-163-159.intrepid.net [209.190.163.159]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA06790 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:58:45 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004801be5f91$eb6df0a0$adf2facf@HPAuthorizedCustomer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:59:01 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: an apprentice view Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 640 >to harvest mornings when one is waking up with a rhythm -Parker Parker - As one how is actively recruiting and interviewing interns right now, I would be very interested in hearing more about your experiences and insights in this process. If you can find the time, please tell us more. Thanks -Allan Balliett From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 10:31:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA08532 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:31:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA01023; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19519 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:14:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.82] (pm3shep2-163-100.intrepid.net [209.190.163.100]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA09534 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:16:38 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902240941.KAA05595@bach.iskon.hr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:18:01 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Which reminds me... WAS: Re: BD in Croatia Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 641 Has anyone seen a copy of Maria Thun's "Working with the Stars 1999" yet? Thanks!! -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 10:31:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA08552 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:31:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA01219; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:13:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA24021 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:10:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.58] (pm3shep1-163-58.intrepid.net [209.190.163.58]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA20269 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:12:34 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:50:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: FAQ on BD? Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 642 Kelly: The BDNOW! website has a good deal of information on Biodynamics: www.igg.com/bdnow. So does the website of the Biodynamic Association, www.diodynamics.com, especially the article "What is Biodynamics?" I know of no FAQ, though there has been a felt need for one for some time now. Woody At 02:37 PM 2/23/99 -0500, you wrote: >I am very interested in the discussions on this list, but does anyone have a >basic primer about BD for those of us who have just stumbled into this type >of farming? Much of what everyone talks about is way over my head, but I >would like to learn more. Thank you, Kelly > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 11:15:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10022 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:15:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA05417; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:04:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27433 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:37:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp18.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.118]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA05826 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:37:10 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <006c01be6003$152a1380$764b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: The COW BEING Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:36:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 643 Dear Ferdy, Thank you for sharing your cow insights. It seems the closer & longer I interact with cows, the more questions I have, and the more I feel incredibly ignorant about them. We recently experienced a series of herd problems, and I say "herd" because truly, the entire herd seems affected when something is not right with a few. It was similar this time of seasonal transition last March. My original feeling was that the erratic weather, freezing, thawing, raining, warming, etc. is very stressful for these creatures of habit. But in the Ag course that Steiner says cows should not inhale the breath of the others though. And yes, when they graze, while perfectly "together", they do stay out of each other's breath. I wonder if winter-feeding of large bales, grain in feed bunks, or barn mangers for an extended period of time culminates in this apparently seasonal weakness & susceptibility to problems. You are so right about the herd "entity". We know that the herd "instinct" will override even thirst...when the herd is moving on, the late-comers will even forego the water trough in order to stay with the others. And when we bought our beloved Joyce..first cow...WE became her herd. She would follow the children up & down the fenceline when they'd go & come from the schoolbus (They made a game of it, they'd run...she'd run along too!) But when another cow came along shortly thereafter, she was truly happy. (And for REAL entertainment...watch the cows chase a cow trailer down the road...someone NEW is coming!!) The thing that seemed to APPEAR counter to this herd thinking (owing to my prejudice) is when a cow distressed, has gotten through the fence, separated from the rest, crying for her calf, or even down, the rest will move on, showing little interest or concern (exception is maternal situations...mother & calf). We often wondered about this seeming insensitivity (projecting our own morals again) and we thought perhaps this was a survival thing...a bellowing cow or calf is certainly invitation for predators, and is not in the collective's best interest. But as you said, they have fallen outside the rhythm & the herd must just know they've become wolf fodder. I really struggle with it, seeing my sweet, loving cows turn a deaf ear...but I guess the whole is greater than the parts. Good heavens, what we can't learn from the creatures - from Ants to Cows! Here's to the Year of the Cow!! Julie >Dear Cheryl, >It is a joy talking to you. Just this morning when I was mucking out the stable >I thought for myself, this year, I will declare (to myself) the year of the cow >and that must mean that I will study the cow as thoroughly as possible. You have >made a very good start with your contribution. > >You see, the cow is a totally rhythmical being. When you follow the herd (it is >possible in our fields because they can go into the forest and fairly far away) >you can observe them appearing in the same place daily. They lay down, ruminate, >sleep, they get up, graze - walk to the water, eat again and so forth. Nothing >is left to chance. I was sitting in the forest with them last summer and wanted >to know WHAT makes them 'tick' - what makes them getting up and walk into the >field to graze. Who would give the command to get up and go? And it was >interesting. As if some kind of an etheric discharge would 'strike' or overcome >them - it showed itself in a calf. It got up and stood there for a minute. Then, >the mother cow got up, then another heifer and so forth until all of them were >standing. Then, this time, the bull started to make a few steps, then the calf, >the heifer and slowly the herd started to move towards the grass. And it was the >same, day after day. > >They moved like one unit, forward, sidewise and onwards. Of course there are >variations within the group but (statistically speaking) the herd acted like one >being of which sometimes the leading cow took over, then a calf, then the bull >and sometimes two or all of them. There was in-breathing, relaxing, out >breathing, moving forward and so forth. > >The dropping of the manure happened at a certain time, the urination, too. > >And now, we lock that cow-being into a stable (I mean, what I described above, >what I have observed....!... and there is much more to it) and we witness them >being fed mechanically, milked mechanically, inject all kinds of chemicals, >inseminate artificially, the calves locked away from the mother cows to get the >milk etc. etc.- totally thrown out of their etheric rythm. With our industrially >based actions we interfere tremendously with the etheric expressions of the cow >being (it MUST have an opportunity to express itself rhythmically). And so, we >profoundly damage the (overall) health of these animals. > >Let us not forget that cows cannot be isolated i.e. we do fine in Canada (and I, >in my valley do even better) and you, in the US treat them badly. That does not >work. Cows, and all of them, belong together into one big herd. They receive >their wisdom and guidance from the same background. From one specific corner of >the universe. This implies that the overall cow being is being damaged (or >healed) by what we are doing to it in any place on this planet. So, my cows >(like cells in my body) do feel the injustice that is being done to them in >(say) Austria and will, therefore, act (by possibly getting ill) accordingly. > >Audumla, the cow of the heavens, in the Norse Mythology grazed the starry fields >and brought healing and fertility to this earth. The cow that jumped over the >church tower by Matisse, or, if you read: THE COSMIC PULSE OF LIFE BY TREVOR >JAMES CONSTABLE. It is possible to photograph (heat sensitive film) those >creatures that are hovering around the cow being and unite them all into one >herd. > >Our interference does cause a sick cow that is attacked by viri and bacteria >that want to eliminate those that have fallen or were ruthlessly pulled out of >the herd (as would happen in nature where animals that fall outside the overall >rhythm are eliminated) by predators). > >And one further thought. Rudolf Steiner is speaking of the Hoof and Mouth >disease in one of his lectures (I think in the Ag Course). He does recommend to >treat that illness with coffee (coffee that works on the heart, rhythm!). Many >if not most illnesses in our cows are caused (as I see it) directly and >indirectly by us not giving the cow(s) the possibility to express themselves >rhythmically. This is a mouth full, I know. But I am strongly of that opinion (I >am an extremist, Rex Hadrill, can U hear me? Wag your finger at me, please) >Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 11:17:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10064 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:17:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA05517; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:04:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA02432 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:31:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp18.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.118]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA14318 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:31:03 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <00b601be600a$9c334de0$764b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Midwestern Conference & Your BD products etc. Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:30:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 644 Dear BD'ers, I'm writing to extend an offer to take any of your farm literature, business cards, posters, whatever you use to promote your farm or BD business, product or whatever to the Upper Midwest Organic Farming Conference here in SW Wisconsin 3/4-3/6. This conference sees about 1000 attendees & is growing each year. Since there will be some seminars on Biodynamics (Hugh Lovel and Walter Goldstein will each hold seminars & Michael Fields always has a big booth in the exhibit hall) , this might present as an oppty. to spread your message. There is a place in the exhibit hall for this sort of thing & although I can't guarantee results, I'd be happy to place them for you and certainly head folks in that direction if I can. Would love to help any of you in your efforts...let me know if I can be of assistance. Julie M. marq@mwt.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 11:38:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10571 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:38:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA09304; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:28:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06917 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:10:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-004.midcoast.com [208.153.20.104]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA07304 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:51:03 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990224103219.007eeec0@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:32:19 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: Leech Field In the Pasture In-Reply-To: <002201be5fb2$4a034be0$84b82299@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 645 Dear friends We are in the process of working on an animal management plan for our farm. We have about 35 acres of open land. There is a beautiful apple tree lined 2.5 acre pasture adjoining the barn which has an underground septic tank and leech field in the middle of it. We are wondering whether the use of this pasture by cows, sheep, or chickens would be a hazard to their health and to human health. The grass is especially lush over this area. We are concerned about cleaning products, pesticides, and mercury which might be present. We are heavily involved in the study of mercury toxicity as related to silver amalgam dental fillings. Mercury from dental fillings constantly leaves the silver amalgam in the form of mercury vapor which is subsequently en hailed. This mercury is spread via the blood to all organ systems. The body excretes mercury primarily through the urine and feces. Leading edge scientific research is revealing that this small amount of mercury exposure poses a significant health risk. This is why many European countries are in the process of banning the use of silver dental filling. We are concerned about feeding our livestock with contaminated grass. Does anyone know whether grass over the septic tank and leech field will absorb cleaning chemicals, pesticides, or mercury from the under ground effluent? Would you recommend pumping the tank? Would you recommend planting cover crops of some type to clean up the soil? Would you plant flowers over the area and use other land for pasture? Thanks John St. George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 11:59:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11046 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:59:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA12317; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:50:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12248 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:49:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.154] (max3-35.stc.net [208.210.132.35]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25974 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:51:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D35BF8.EC94FFBA@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:28:08 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Bill Gates - can anybody verify this post! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 646 Ferdy, Pretty interesting, especially for someone like myself who went to Seventh Day Adventist School, to say nothing of having read some of Emanuel Swedenbourg's work. I'm can't confirm the details of your Microsoft/Gates post since I'm not surfing the net with my slow equipment. But I've long thought that Napolean and Hitler were only a warm up for the dark powers. It's our current age that will experience the full opera instead of merely its overture. Humanity (slowly) evolves. We go through trial by fire to grow. All the hierarchies in heaven support us, for we are part of the scheme of things. Even the fallen Prince Satan--even Lucifer who would lose us in labyrinthine illusion or Ahriman who would freeze frame the universe--are at our assistance since it is not easy times that bring about our growth. Rather it is adversity. We stand to learn a lot through the bad examples of Lucifer and Ahriman, both on the occasions when we are sucked into being IDENTIFIED WITH them and on those occasions when we gain the vantage of IDENTIFYING them. No doubt this coming crisis will be feared by all who fear starvation, disease, enslavement, torture and death, but that's the point of it. Some will stick their heads in the tube or divert their attention with circuses and gladiators in the stadiums; others will bend their heads, hearts and hands to preparation. Knowing ourselves--and what goes on around us is a reflection of what is within--is the greatest preparation. As evolving beings we come from seed and go in turn to seed. If at the end of this world age humanity sprouts the seeds of a new and golden age, rest assured that as these bring flower and fruit they will form new seeds of further evolution. And then we will see a culmination, death and rebirth that will make the one we are facing now seem nanoscopic by comparisson. So we might not only think in terms of preparing for the coming death and rebirth. Though extreme, it won't be too much. There's more to come beyond that we REALLY need to prepare for. Regards, Hugh Lovel >Eerie news about Bill Gates and Microsoft > >Since we're all using Microsoft products here, I thought I'd just >let you know these facts...do you know that Bill Gates' real name is >William Henry Gates III? Nowadays, he is known as Bill Gates (III) > >So what's so eerie about this name? > >Ok, if you take all the letters in bill gates III and then convert >it into ASCII code (American Standard Code for Info. Interchange) and >then >add up all the numbers.... You will get 666, which is the number of the >beast. > >B = 66 >I = 73 >L = 76 >L = 76 >G = 71 >A = 65 >T = 84 >E = 69 >S = 83 >I = 1 >I = 1 >I = 1 >Add these numbers and they equal 666. > >Coincidence? > >Maybe, but take Windows 95 and do the same procedure and you will >get 666, too. And even MS-DOS 6.31 adds up to 666. > >Still think it is coincidence? >Okay, now for the good part. Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "When you learn to love Hell, you will be in Heaven." --Thaddeus Golas From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 12:05:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11203 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:05:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA13362; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:56:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13073 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:54:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0201.direct.ca ([204.244.83.17] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Fhbv-0004bR-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:56:36 -0800 Message-ID: <36D42EFC.591FD26@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:55:24 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Maria Thun, Working with the Stars 1999 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 647 Please give us the ISBN number as soon as you have it. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Has anyone seen a copy of Maria Thun's "Working with the Stars 1999" yet? > > Thanks!! > > -Allan > igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 12:41:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11992 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:41:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19177; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:30:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18567 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:27:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0201.direct.ca ([204.244.83.17] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Fi7k-0004gS-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:29:28 -0800 Message-ID: <36D436B0.4798B6A4@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:28:16 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: The COW BEING References: <006c01be6003$152a1380$764b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 648 Julie M. wrote: > Dear Ferdy, > > Thank you for sharing your cow insights. It seems the closer & longer I > interact with cows, the more questions I have, and the more I feel > incredibly ignorant about them. We recently experienced a series of herd > problems, and I say "herd" because truly, the entire herd seems affected > when something is not right with a few. It was similar this time of seasonal > transition last March. My original feeling was that the erratic weather, > freezing, thawing, raining, warming, etc. is very stressful for these > creatures of habit. But in the Ag course that Steiner says cows should not > inhale the breath of the others though. And yes, when they graze, while > perfectly "together", they do stay out of each other's breath. I wonder if > winter-feeding of large bales, grain in feed bunks, or barn mangers for an > extended period of time culminates in this apparently seasonal weakness & > susceptibility to problems. Dear Julie, You hit the nail dead on the head. IT IS a true problem when they have to breath each others breath. Some sort of ventilation, an open crib etc. is best, I think. The old, enclosed stables (in areas where I grew up) which were dark and full of cow-air caused umpteen illnesses to the cows such as: pneumonia, anemic, the rickets and so forth. You could see them cows coming out in the spring, boney, pale (I really mean pale), totally weird looking and going wild when they saw the fields. These were extremes but they clearly showed what can happen when cows are being kept like milk-machines, locked away just to produce........what? > And, another point which is ever so true, Julie. If a herd has formed, then, > the illness of one cow influences the entire herd. May I add an interesting > observation that, in a sense is OFF the topic, but, it has to do with the > 'female' being and how senstive it is. You know that (throughout the world) > about 6 - 7% more male (boys) are being born than girls. By the age of 7, so I > understand, the situation has corrected itself (unless, by a law such as in > China, girls are either aborted or killed or excluded from being born etc.). > Now, how come that the female body knows that she has to produce 6-7% more > girls than boys? To me this is proof that ALL women are in close contact with > each other and 'tell' each other: give birth to just a bit more boys than > girls! There is an ovrall connection between the entire female family. > Unspoken (in human words) - invisible, but it is there. They all communicate > via; WHAT? We are one being - and I am sure that the male being has a lot to > do with this situation as well. So, what you say about the herd, its wellbeing, is very true. > You are so right about the herd "entity". We know that the herd "instinct" > will override even thirst...when the herd is moving on, the late-comers will > even forego the water trough in order to stay with the others. And when we > bought our beloved Joyce..first cow...WE became her herd. She would follow > the children up & down the fenceline when they'd go & come from the > schoolbus (They made a game of it, they'd run...she'd run along too!) But > when another cow came along shortly thereafter, she was truly happy. (And > for REAL entertainment...watch the cows chase a cow trailer down the > road...someone NEW is coming!!) > > The thing that seemed to APPEAR counter to this herd thinking (owing to my > prejudice) is when a cow distressed, has gotten through the fence, separated > from the rest, crying for her calf, or even down, the rest will move on, > showing little interest or concern (exception is maternal > situations...mother & calf). We often wondered about this seeming > insensitivity (projecting our own morals again) and we thought perhaps this > was a survival thing...a bellowing cow or calf is certainly invitation for > predators, and is not in the collective's best interest. But as you said, > they have fallen outside the rhythm & the herd must just know they've become > wolf fodder. I really struggle with it, seeing my sweet, loving cows turn a > deaf ear...but I guess the whole is greater than the parts. You have given the answer that I was thinking of: the WHOLE is GREATER than its PARTS. Now, that is a statement. If consciously applied you get true Christianity out of it. The selfsacrifice. I do not know whether you (or anybody) has seen the movie: THE INN OF SEVEN HAPPINESS (I think that this is the title). It tells the story of Mao's long march and how one woman marched with about 100 children from one end of China to the other. And, on the way, the group was attacked by robbers, soldiers and so forth - however, whenever there was such an attack, an adult member would step out, mislead the attacker etc. and, in the process, would be killed - therefore, saving the children i.e. the total entity, the whole. I recently read in STeiner's that animals can see everything, hear everything, but, they cannot understand it. I think we often lead our cows into situations which they would never get themselves into IF they'd live in nature. They simply cannot understand. A few months ago I came back from the town and stopped at the horse corall. The horses went wild. They simply could not understand what was going on: ME stepping out of a metal box or, ME being released by a thing, a white cloud, a moving ball. When they saw ME they calmed down, sniffed at me and made sure that it was ME. Then, I stepped into the car again and ............ there was a daze in the horses' eyes. Come out of box - gone into box - carried away by box - is box master? - is box edible ?- what box is? - if box master, box good! So, box accepted but not understood, perhaps piece of master? Also piece of masterwife? Also dead!? Piece is - cannot integrate! Piece not in horse life! Piece ....???? > Good heavens, what we can't learn from the creatures - from Ants to Cows! > Here's to the Year of the Cow!! > > Julie > > >Dear Cheryl, > >It is a joy talking to you. Just this morning when I was mucking out the > stable > >I thought for myself, this year, I will declare (to myself) the year of the > cow > >and that must mean that I will study the cow as thoroughly as possible. You > have > >made a very good start with your contribution. > > > >You see, the cow is a totally rhythmical being. When you follow the herd > (it is > >possible in our fields because they can go into the forest and fairly far > away) > >you can observe them appearing in the same place daily. They lay down, > ruminate, > >sleep, they get up, graze - walk to the water, eat again and so forth. > Nothing > >is left to chance. I was sitting in the forest with them last summer and > wanted > >to know WHAT makes them 'tick' - what makes them getting up and walk into > the > >field to graze. Who would give the command to get up and go? And it was > >interesting. As if some kind of an etheric discharge would 'strike' or > overcome > >them - it showed itself in a calf. It got up and stood there for a minute. > Then, > >the mother cow got up, then another heifer and so forth until all of them > were > >standing. Then, this time, the bull started to make a few steps, then the > calf, > >the heifer and slowly the herd started to move towards the grass. And it > was the > >same, day after day. > > > >They moved like one unit, forward, sidewise and onwards. Of course there > are > >variations within the group but (statistically speaking) the herd acted > like one > >being of which sometimes the leading cow took over, then a calf, then the > bull > >and sometimes two or all of them. There was in-breathing, relaxing, out > >breathing, moving forward and so forth. > > > >The dropping of the manure happened at a certain time, the urination, too. > > > >And now, we lock that cow-being into a stable (I mean, what I described > above, > >what I have observed....!... and there is much more to it) and we witness > them > >being fed mechanically, milked mechanically, inject all kinds of chemicals, > >inseminate artificially, the calves locked away from the mother cows to get > the > >milk etc. etc.- totally thrown out of their etheric rythm. With our > industrially > >based actions we interfere tremendously with the etheric expressions of the > cow > >being (it MUST have an opportunity to express itself rhythmically). And > so, we > >profoundly damage the (overall) health of these animals. > > > >Let us not forget that cows cannot be isolated i.e. we do fine in Canada > (and I, > >in my valley do even better) and you, in the US treat them badly. That does > not > >work. Cows, and all of them, belong together into one big herd. They > receive > >their wisdom and guidance from the same background. From one specific > corner of > >the universe. This implies that the overall cow being is being damaged (or > >healed) by what we are doing to it in any place on this planet. So, my cows > >(like cells in my body) do feel the injustice that is being done to them in > >(say) Austria and will, therefore, act (by possibly getting ill) > accordingly. > > > >Audumla, the cow of the heavens, in the Norse Mythology grazed the starry > fields > >and brought healing and fertility to this earth. The cow that jumped over > the > >church tower by Matisse, or, if you read: THE COSMIC PULSE OF LIFE BY > TREVOR > >JAMES CONSTABLE. It is possible to photograph (heat sensitive film) those > >creatures that are hovering around the cow being and unite them all into > one > >herd. > > > >Our interference does cause a sick cow that is attacked by viri and > bacteria > >that want to eliminate those that have fallen or were ruthlessly pulled out > of > >the herd (as would happen in nature where animals that fall outside the > overall > >rhythm are eliminated) by predators). > > > >And one further thought. Rudolf Steiner is speaking of the Hoof and Mouth > >disease in one of his lectures (I think in the Ag Course). He does > recommend to > >treat that illness with coffee (coffee that works on the heart, rhythm!). > Many > >if not most illnesses in our cows are caused (as I see it) directly and > >indirectly by us not giving the cow(s) the possibility to express > themselves > >rhythmically. This is a mouth full, I know. But I am strongly of that > opinion (I > >am an extremist, Rex Hadrill, can U hear me? Wag your finger at me, please) > >Regards Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 13:43:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13789 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:43:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA29443; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:32:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA28692 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:29:09 -0500 (EST) From: JHatf18942@aol.com Received: from JHatf18942@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 5UGHa26290 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:27:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6c5146e4.36d444ad@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:27:57 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: mushrooms Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 649 Dear Ferdy, Thanks for your reply regarding mushroom cultivation. We grow our mushrooms on small diameter hardwoods and on organic straw. We are working on growing our own straw (thus BD). Any thoughts to the forces at play during mushroom growth, or what might be done to enhance these forces? I certainly notice much more mushroom initiation (pinning) during the full moon. Peace. Jeff Hatfield From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 14:09:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA14240 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:09:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA02898; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:00:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02742 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:59:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.110]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990224190158.ZBUX3226200.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:01:58 +1300 Message-ID: <36D44CC1.106C@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:02:25 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Study L3:2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 650 I suggest we take another bite , before the full Moon. I suggest we read from page 48 up to the end of page 54. This a meaty chunck and lets hope plenty to discuss. I have not had time to finish posting the 38 version of this section, sorry. Hopefully it will follow soon. Cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 15:20:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA15746 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:20:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA13787; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:04:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11992 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:55:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp55.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.155]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA04184 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:54:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000f01be602f$7ad59660$9b4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Kaolin Clay for fruit trees Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:54:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 651 Dear Fruit enthusiasts, An interesting post came across SANET today regarding the use of kaolin clay for protecting apple trees from a number of insect pests that have been problematic for orchardists. This product is said to be the answer for especially organic growers. It immediately reminded me of the tree paste of whey, manure & clay that I painted on a ancient long-neglected apple tree near my garden, which helps it (although I cannot state exactly how...it just "seems" better). This clay product, in a water base leaves only a dry powdery residue, and I found it interesting that the scientists' studies indicated no problems with photosynthesis (In fact the trees thrived!). Does anyone know more about Kaolin clay? Isn't it funny how science may be verifying & heading towards a biodynamic recipe? Gosh, should we give them the other 2/3 of it, or just wait til they figure it out on their own? Nah, they'd never believe it! :-) Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 16:36:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA17739 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:35:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA25758; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:22:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25042 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:16:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.34] (pm3shep1-163-34.intrepid.net [209.190.163.34]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07077 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:18:39 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:12:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: John Wilkes (from Alison) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 652 Dear Allan I have unsubscribed from BDNOW for a while (travelling) but have just received a letter from John Wilkes and thought the group might be interested. Perhaps you could pass on the info, if you think so too. Tony may have said this but I don't have his message to hand, so sorry if I'm repeating what you said Tony. John is very pleased to hear from anyone interested in the flow form designs. He sent me a leaflet with several examples of the different types, such as: water for food processing, irrigation, treating water in a bakery, fruit juice treatment, aeration, biological sewage treatment, office foyer, drinking trough for cattle (7-8 sided), slurry treatment, small scale air conditioning, organic farm preparations, water treatment in glasshouse, offices, and air conditioning for curing cellars. I'm sure he won't mind me quoting from the letter 'a facility will ... make it possible to demonstrate many sensitive water phenomena which can awaken people to its amazing sensitivity and indeed to an understanding of its (water) actual function in mediating the rhythms of the environment to every organism. ..... Of course I can help when people would like flowforms, please ask them to contact me. There are alternatives for use on farms for mixing preps, irrigation etc.' He enclosed a price list. £60 to over £1,000 depending on the complexity. A beautiful variety of shapes he has. His email is: jwilkes30@aol.com. Oh for some land or building or some somewhere where I could put one!! Alison CHANGE OF EMAILPlease note that 'alison@watating.demon.co.uk' will cease to operate from 26 February 1999From 26 Feb to 9 May I shall be travelling so please use my forwarding address: 'alison@louthsec.demon.co.uk'From 9 May onwards my new address will be: 'alison@raithby.globalnet.co.uk' From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 16:37:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA17791 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:37:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA26362; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:26:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25053 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:16:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.34] (pm3shep1-163-34.intrepid.net [209.190.163.34]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07096 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:18:44 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000f01be602f$7ad59660$9b4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:19:34 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Kaolin Clay for fruit trees Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 653 >Dear Fruit enthusiasts, > >An interesting post came across SANET today regarding the use of kaolin clay >for protecting apple trees from a number of insect pests that have been >problematic for orchardists. This product is said to be the answer for >especially organic growers. It immediately reminded me of the tree paste of >whey, manure & clay that I painted on a ancient long-neglected apple tree >near my garden, which helps it (although I cannot state exactly how...it >just "seems" better). This clay product, in a water base leaves only a dry >powdery residue, and I found it interesting that the scientists' studies >indicated no problems with photosynthesis (In fact the trees thrived!). > >Does anyone know more about Kaolin clay? Isn't it funny how science may be >verifying & heading towards a biodynamic recipe? Gosh, should we give them >the other 2/3 of it, or just wait til they figure it out on their own? Nah, >they'd never believe it! >:-) >Julie Julie - The 'founder' of this method (a USDA reserach scientist from Kearneysville) presented at the 1997 Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic conference. Numerous organic growers in the Mid-Atlantic region have used this method, all with, as far as I know, great satisfaction. (of course, it takes repeated applications and your trees are WHITE) Because of the way it is 'machined,' the clay does enhance photosynthesis, overall, however, I think it is to be thought of as a barrier material rather than an energetic. Doug Britt may know more about this than I. Eric Rice, who has used the product on his orchards may be enticed to come on-line and talk aobut it if there strong interest in it. Myself, I have some real problems with looking at 'white' trees, regardless of the measurable improvements in water control, insect control and photosynthesis. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 16:45:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA17990 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27562; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:33:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26837 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:29:32 -0500 (EST) From: LMvine@aol.com Received: from LMvine@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UJCLa20271 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:27:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3893efc8.36d46eb0@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:27:12 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Kaolin Clay for fruit trees Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 654 In a message dated 2/24/99 3:06:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, marq@mwt.net writes: << Dear Fruit enthusiasts, An interesting post came across SANET today regarding the use of kaolin clay for protecting apple trees from a number of insect pests that have been problematic for orchardists. This product is said to be the answer for especially organic growers. It immediately reminded me of the tree paste of whey, manure & clay that I painted on a ancient long-neglected apple tree near my garden, which helps it (although I cannot state exactly how...it just "seems" better). This clay product, in a water base leaves only a dry powdery residue, and I found it interesting that the scientists' studies indicated no problems with photosynthesis (In fact the trees thrived!). Does anyone know more about Kaolin clay? Isn't it funny how science may be verifying & heading towards a biodynamic recipe? Gosh, should we give them the other 2/3 of it, or just wait til they figure it out on their own? Nah, they'd never believe it! :-) Julie >> Dr Byers at Virginia tech has been working on this. A web site with some info (3 tears old) is at: http://www.vtip.org/Licensing%20Opportunities/vtip%20disclosures/96-027.html I am interested in the hydrophobic clay for possible use on grapevines. Dan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 16:51:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA18113 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:50:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA28517; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:39:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from send204.yahoomail.com (send204.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.128]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27580 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:33:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990224213530.19895.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> Received: from [128.143.38.148] by send204.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:35:30 PST Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:35:30 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: Re: Kaolin Clay for fruit trees To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 655 allan, Is Kaolin different from Kaolinite clay, the main constituent of Jeffersonian (thomas) red clay here in Charlottesville, and also over in the Shenandoah Valley? This is one of the non-expandable clays that has a moderate CEC , but not really as good as the expandibles (the ones that shrink and swell according to moisture or lack thereof) bruce ritchie _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 17:03:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA18500 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:03:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA01436; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:51:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA29535 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:44:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.34] (pm3shep3-163-120.intrepid.net [209.190.163.120]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13893 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:46:41 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:39:43 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: USDA News: E-Coli Problem Solved and more!! Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 656 PLANS TO ALLOW IRRADIATION OF MEAT -- Providing industry with another tool to improve food safety, Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman announced (February 12) that USDA will allow the irradiation of raw meat and raw meat products. Food irradiation uses radiant energy to reduce or eliminate potentially dangerous microorganisms on meat and poultry. The Food and Drug Administration determined in December 1997 that use of irradiation technology on raw meat is safe. Irradiation is currently the only known method to eliminate completely the potentially deadly E. coli O157:H7 bacteria in raw meat. The technology can also significantly reduce levels of listeria, salmonella and campylobacter on raw product. Under USDA's proposed rule, which will be published in the Federal Register by February 22, radiation would be permitted to treat refrigerated or frozen uncooked meat and some meat products. No plant would be required to use irradiation. Contact: Beth Gaston (202) 720-9113. NEW ROAD CONSTRUCTION LIMITS IN NATIONAL FORESTS -- Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman, joined by Under Secretary for Natural Resources and Environment Jim Lyons and Forest Service Chief Mike Dombeck, announced (February 11) an 18-month moratorium on new road construction in unroaded areas in most national forests, allowing for safe public access while protecting the environment. While the 18-month road construction suspension is in effect, the Forest Service will develop a long-term road policy for the National Forest Transportation System. In addition to minimizing environmental damage, the Forest Service will establish new policies to guide decisions on identifying unessential roads, recommending roads to be eliminated or maintained to reduce environmental damage, and assessing roads that need to be reconstructed and maintained so that they are safe and can sustain constant public use. Contact: Andrew Kauders (202) 720-4623. NEW COMMUNITY ANTI-HUNGER INITIATIVE -- At a meeting (February 11) with key members of the anti-hunger advocacy community, Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman announced the creation of a new domestic Community Food Security Initiative that will directly aid grass-roots efforts to reduce hunger and improve nutrition. The initiative will improve coordination of USDA anti-hunger and nutrition activities, help communities develop and implement food security action plans, and give technical assistance to states, communities and nonprofit organizations to develop sustainable local infrastructures to increase food security. Contact: Joel Berg (202) 720-5746. FUNDING FOR RURAL CHILD CARE FACILITIES -- Tipper Gore, wife of Vice President Al Gore, announced (February 11) that the United States Department of Agriculture will provide $7 million in loans during 1999 to fund new and expanded child care facilities nationally. USDA's Rural Housing Service (RHS) is the lead agency in the Rural Childcare Partnership program. Partners in this collaborative effort include the Head Start Program of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, National Head Start Association and the Federal Housing Finance Board. Of the 1999 funds, $5 million will be direct loans from USDA, while $2 million will be USDA guaranteed loans made by local financial institutions. Contact: Dan Campbell (202) 720-6483. MORE AMERICANS ARE EATING AWAY FROM HOME -- Increasingly, America's family dining table is not at home, but at a fast food outlet or restaurant. Yet, according to a new report from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the nutritional content of meals eaten away from home is failing to keep pace with nutritional improvements in home-prepared foods. Compared with home-prepared foods, food made outside of the home contains more of the nutrients that Americans overconsume, such as fat and saturated fat, and less of those that they underconsume, such as calcium, fiber and iron. According to Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman, "Americans should be aware of this nutritional gap. It reinforces the need for nutrition information and education in schools and at home, so that everyone can make more healthful food choices." The report, "Away-from-Home Foods Increasingly Important to Quality of American Diet" is available at http://www.econ.ag.gov or by calling 1-800-999-6779. Contact: John Snyder (202) 694-5138. A FAREWELL PARTY FOR CORN EARWORM PESTS -- Like catnip that tantalizes cats, scents from plant flowers lure corn earworm or bollworm moths into a partying mood. The moths are attracted to their favorite foods by zeroing in on plant scents. In the South, the feast begins with corn but soon the moths move into cotton. Each year, these pests cost farmers nearly $2 billion in losses and chemical control expenses. Now scientists are throwing a farewell party for the moths. In a field study, U.S. Department of Agriculture Agricultural Research Service entomologist Juan Lopez and agricultural engineer Kenneth R. Beerwinkle at College Station, Texas, gave the insects a lethal dish that killed 730 moths in a 54-foot row of corn. ARS has applied for a patent on the attractant, which can be used optionally with a feeding stimulant and insecticide. Contact: Juan Lopez (409) 260-9530. KIDS GET SCIENCE PROJECT IDEAS FROM NAL -- Elementary to high school students who need science project ideas in a hurry now have on-line access to a list of 140 publications chock full of project ideas, most related to the agricultural sciences. The bibliography Projects and Experiments for Young Scientists was created by the National Agricultural Library's (NAL) Technology Transfer Information Center (TTIC). The project is part of an effort by the Agricultural Research Service (ARS), NAL's parent agency within the U.S. Department of Agriculture, to interest young people in science and scientific research. Literally hundreds of science project ideas are listed in the publications, on subjects ranging from Christmas tree farming to Samoan fruits and vegetables, according to TTIC Coordinator Kate Hayes. Every child should be able to find at least one experiment or project that catches the imagination. The bibliography is available on the NAL home page at: http://www.nal.usda.gov/ttic/misc/juvag.htm. Copies are also available by calling (301) 504-5372. Contact: Kate Hayes (301) 504-6875. NEW TESTS NAB TOXINS -- New tools to detect mycotoxins that contaminate corn, barley, wheat and other commodities have been developed by a U.S. Department of Agriculture Agricultural Research Service (ARS) scientist. Fungi that grow on these crops produce the toxins. One of the more harmful ones is aflatoxin, produced by the fungus Aspergillus flavus. Aflatoxin takes its greatest toll on U.S. corn production during drought and excessively high temperatures. Inspectors need accurate and sensitive tests to detect such minute levels. That's why ARS chemist Chris M. Maragos in Peoria, Illinois, has developed several new tests that more accurately detect the toxin. One is a new antibody for an existing ELISA test (enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay). The antibody selectively binds with aflatoxin. If the sample is free of aflatoxin, the technician sees a deep orange color. If toxin is present, there is no color. Contact: Chris Maragos (309) 681-6686. =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 17:06:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA18576 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:06:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03014; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:54:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA29544 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:44:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.34] (pm3shep3-163-120.intrepid.net [209.190.163.120]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13911 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:46:48 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:48:07 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: That War against Real Organic Farms Cont. Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 657 Maryland Organic Farms May Suffer Under New Law A new law regulating fertilizer use could put organic farms out of business, according to one of the state's most prominent organic producers. Organic farmers spread animal manure instead of chemical fertilizers on their fields, making it difficult to precisely measure use of phosphorus and nitrogen, the nutrients in both natural and manufactured fertilizers. The Maryland Agriculture Department and the Nutrient Management Advisory Committee are drafting regulations to enforce a 1998 law aimed at reducing nutrient runoff from farms into waterways. Agricultural runoff has been blamed for the growth of fish-killing microbes in some rivers. "Organic slipped through the cracks when they came up with the new nutrient management laws," said Early Monroe, past chairman of the Maryland Organic Foods and Farming Association and a member of the Maryland Agriculture Commission, a 22-member advisory board. Fifty-seven Maryland farms have been certified or are becoming certified as organic operations by the state, according to Robert Pooler, head of the certification program. Another 40 or more Maryland farms have been certified as organic by out-of-state agencies, he said. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 17:25:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA19120 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:25:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA07090; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:13:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00378 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:49:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.34] (pm3shep3-163-120.intrepid.net [209.190.163.120]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15018 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:51:24 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990224213530.19895.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:51:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Kaolin Clay for fruit trees Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 658 >allan, > Is Kaolin different from Kaolinite clay, the main constituent of >Jeffersonian (thomas) red clay here in Charlottesville, and also over >in the Shenandoah Valley? This is one of the non-expandable clays that >has a moderate CEC , but not really as good as the expandibles (the >ones that shrink and swell according to moisture or lack thereof) > bruce ritchie > Dear Bruce - I don't actually know. The fellow I talked to from the USDA referred to the product as 'machined' but subsequently Jerry Brunetti told me that this is actually a 'mined' product. I'll tell you more as I find out. (This is a copyrighted procedure, btw) Incidentally, at the time they presented at the Mid-Atlantic Conference, they were NOT using organic 'propellents' for the clay. -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 17:40:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA19616 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:40:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA09458; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:27:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA08829 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:23:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.34] (pm3shep1-163-20.intrepid.net [209.190.163.20]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22434; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:25:30 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:05:55 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: SNEAK PREVIEW: Secrets of the Soil and Peter Tompkins Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id RAA08836 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 659 Dear BD Now! Member: I've published the interview I did in 1998 with Peter Tompkins about biodynamics and subtle energies andŠandŠand "various" on the web at http://igg.com/bdnow/books/tompkins/ Portions of this interview previously appeared in ACRES USA (http://www.acresusa.com ) (I think ACRES editor Fred Walters would like me to add that the typos etc in the web version are strictly my own! ) Let me know what you think. Let me know what you'd like to see added - - or removed from these pages. Thanks -Allan "Rump Bar" Balliett =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 17:43:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA19712 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:43:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA10550; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:32:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10217 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:31:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.34] (pm3shep1-163-20.intrepid.net [209.190.163.20]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23862 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:33:19 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:34:30 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Living Energies by Callum Coates Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 660 This book appears to be in print, but not well distributed (ie AMAZON does not have it, INGRAM does not have it, etc). It is available from ACRES USA http://www.acresusa.com YOu can see a write-up at http://www.earthpulse.com/products/living.html Thanks -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com =================================================================== SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! Know the latest releases!! Get the BEST prices!! TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the message New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! http://www.igg.com =================================================================== How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html =================================================================== INTERGALACTIC GARAGE Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles 110 West German Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX Email = igg@igg.com HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 18:47:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA21080 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:47:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA21146; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:34:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA20523 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:30:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.34] (pm3shep2-163-71.intrepid.net [209.190.163.71]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02877 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:32:35 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902242313.PAA00293@ns2.vphos.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:34:01 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Living Energies by Callum Coates Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 661 Woody posted: > Coates seems to have made a lifework of explicating Schauberger. Two >followup books are now in print, "The Water Wizard" and "Nature as >Teacher", edited by Coates and both mostly in Schauberger's words. A >third book in this "Ecotechnology" series is due out this year. > >If you like Theodore Schwenk or Olaf Alexandresson's "Living Water," [also >about Schauberger], you'll LOVE Coates. > As I understand it, Hugh Lovel lectured at a conference recently with Mr. Coates. Maybe he has some of his usual deft observations about the man and his work. HUGH?? -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 18:47:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA21089 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:47:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA21063; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:34:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA20514 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:30:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.34] (pm3shep2-163-71.intrepid.net [209.190.163.71]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02865 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:32:32 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:32:05 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Living Energies by Callum Coates Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 662 List: I though I would add to Allan's information here that this book "Living Energies" is the definitive explanation of the work of Viktor Schauberger up until his death in 1958 or 59. Schauberger was a practical genius in the realm of subtle energies underlying water and, in fact, Nature herself. Coates seems to have made a lifework of explicating Schauberger. Two followup books are now in print, "The Water Wizard" and "Nature as Teacher", edited by Coates and both mostly in Schauberger's words. A third book in this "Ecotechnology" series is due out this year. If you like Theodore Schwenk or Olaf Alexandresson's "Living Water," [also about Schauberger], you'll LOVE Coates. Woody At 05:34 PM 2/24/99 -0500, you wrote: >This book appears to be in print, but not well distributed (ie AMAZON does >not have it, INGRAM does not have it, etc). It is available from ACRES USA >http://www.acresusa.com YOu can see a write-up at >http://www.earthpulse.com/ products/living.html > > >Thanks > >-Allan Balliett >igg@igg.com > >=================================================================== > >SUBSCRIBE to Our Hot Release Information Lists! > Know the latest releases!! > Get the BEST prices!! > > >TORI AMOS LIST: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE TORI-L > You MUST include your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS in the body of the >message > >New Arrival/PRe-Order/ SALE Lists: igg@igg.com SUBJECT=SUBSCRIBE IGG-L > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ > >CUSTOMER SERVICE: maura@intrepid.net > >Please Check Home Page for latest lists and info! > >http://www.igg.com > >=================================================================== >How To Order Information: http://igg.com/howtoorder.html >How To Pre-Order Information http://igg.com/HowToP.html >=================================================================== >INTERGALACTIC GARAGE >Compact Disks and WorldWide Music Collectibles >110 West German Street >POB 3047 >Shepherdstown, WV 25443 >(304) 876-6818 / (304) 876-9414 FAX >Email = igg@igg.com >HOME PAGE: http://www.igg.com > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 21:10:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA22834 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:10:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA12875; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:57:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA12595 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:55:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-210.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.210]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA18595 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:57:20 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36D4AF86.4F81@ipa.net> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:03:50 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: New BD pub from ATTRA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 663 Announcing the web version of the new biodynamic publication from ATTRA -- Appropriate Technology Transfer for Rural Areas. ATTRA is the national sustainable farming information center located at the University of Arkansas, funded by USDA and managed by the National Center for Appropriate Technology. Biodynamic Farming and Compost Preparation http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/biodynamic.html Printed copies, formatted for easy reading, are available from ATTRA on request. I think you will find the BD pub to provide a nice introductory overview of biodynamics, with lots of resources listings and web links for further reading. I expect it will also make a useful handout to interested farmers and Extension agents. Steve Diver Fayetteville, AR P.S. You will also notice that it features remakable insights to conceptual models of biodynamics from Dr. Andrew Lorand, a member of BD-Now. Largely unknown but a jewel in the literature is the Ph.D. dissertation Lorand published at Pennsylvania State University in 1996. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 21:24:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23028 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:24:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA15099; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:15:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14839 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:13:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-210.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.210]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA21459 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:15:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36D4B3C6.4EBC@ipa.net> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:21:58 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Farm-Scale Composting resource list from ATTRA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 664 Also see the web version of ATTRA's new resource list on farm-scale composting. Farm-Scale Composting Resource List http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/farmcompost.html Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 21:35:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23172 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:35:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16137; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:24:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15930 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:22:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.34] (pm3shep1-163-55.intrepid.net [209.190.163.55]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05140 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:24:22 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D4AF86.4F81@ipa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:25:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 665 Steve - I've looked your new publication over and remain confused: did you or did you not find any studies that substantively demonstrate the superiority of biodynamically produced food? -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 21:44:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23274 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:44:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA17483; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:33:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA17243 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:32:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.35]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:34:13 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:34:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: SNEAK PREVIEW: Secrets of the Soil and Peter Tompkins Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 666 Dear Allan and Bd-Now Friends, What a great interview with Peter Tompkins!! (http://igg.com/bdnow/books/tompkins/) I highly recommend this interview for anyone who hasn't already read it. I'm in the middle of Secrets of Nature and my husband (the ex-investigative journalist, also more than disenchanted by the media from an inside perspective) is reading Secrets of the Soil. We'll morph into farmers yet!! The only thing I can say after reading this is that I hope that Mr. Tompkins lives another 80-100 years so he can finish his Steiner and other research, maybe get his hands on some of that lost/missing/destroyed Reich material. The other thing I have to say is go Allan! This kind of "media" is our best defense/offense left to us as a means to communicate a perspective that truly serves the people as the media machine can never/will never do in its' shameless promotion and promulgation of souless materialism! Best Regards, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 22:23:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA23757 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:23:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA21511; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:09:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from m4.boston.juno.com (m4.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.198]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21295 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:07:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from dirkers@juno.com) by m4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D397NR9U; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:09:26 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: olf@mars.ark.com Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:51:21 -0600 Subject: Re: Training of Apprentices Message-ID: <19990224.205738.12310.1.Dirkers@juno.com> References: <199902210302.TAA11460@ark.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5,8-12 From: Christopher P Dirkers Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 667 A credible guide for training farm apprentices is the book list from Acres U.S.A. My 15 year old son is doing a Biodynamic+ apprenticeship based upon this body of literature. Christopher Dirkers -------------------------------------- Located in the beautiful Ozarks, Dirkers' Pleasant Valley School and Farm is dedicated to providing nourishment for mind and body. Classes include Family Preparedness, Health & Agronomy, and Scriptural Law & Theomatics Dirkers' Pleasant Valley School & Farm HC62, Box 370-A Calico Rock, Arkansas. U.S.A. (72519) 870-297-8040 or dirkers@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 22:40:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA24021 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:40:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA24175; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:30:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.javanet.com (mail1.javanet.com [205.219.162.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23834 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:27:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from 209.94.153.240 (armory-us1491.javanet.com [209.94.153.240]) by mail1.javanet.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA13736 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:29:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36D4C51E.79B3@javanet.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:36:02 -0500 From: Christian Elwell Organization: South River Miso Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-NSCP (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' References: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> <36D36BED.42D4@javanet.com> <36D3AC8E.491A3379@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 668 Thank you Ferdinand for reference to the German site. Unfortunately I do not know enough Deutsch to translate the site. Anything you are able to glean from the site or from your forester to share with the list in English I am sure would be most welcome by all, and 'twould be a positive path of action for many of us in the face of GE scares etc. onward, Christian From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 22:52:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA24193 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:52:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA25680; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:42:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25469 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:40:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-138.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.138]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA03983 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:42:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36D4C82A.219D@ipa.net> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:48:58 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 669 Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > Steve - I've looked your new publication over and remain confused: > did you or did you not find any studies that substantively > demonstrate the superiority of biodynamically produced food? > > -Allan Balliett When you get into comparisons of food quality based on the methods of production (e.g., conventional versus bio-organic), you quickly get mired in "some do" and "some don't" show differences in nutritional characteristics. The answer is that it ain't a simple matter to "substantively demonstrate the superiority of biodynamically produced food"... at least without some education associated with how we look at food quality. I have also compiled resources on the topic of nutritional quality of organic foods that includes lots and lots of references and resources, and I hope to transform that into a publication another day. The basic problem is that we are geared to looking at data comparisons for concentrations of elements or vitamins. Yet there is something more to the picture, such as how the sum of whole foods in their natural condition have benefits that cannot be found in extracts (e.g., whole herbs verus herbal extracts), and likewise how certain methods of qualitative analysis can provide insight where quantitative methods fall short, for example, the image-forming qualitative methods of analysis that are landmark contributions of the biodynamic movement... or vital characteristics of food that can only be verified through senstive instrumentation such as radionics. Many of these are non-conventional methods of analysis. Thus, there is a certain amount of education involved in providing a framework for looking at food quality from a newer perspective. The papers listed as citations in the BD pub were carefully selected for the insight they offer into biodynamic methods of analysis, a fresh viewpoint at food quality, or because they show noteworthy differences of some sort. Those papers are from the conference proceedings of an international conference on Agriculture Production and Nutrition held at Tufts University in 1997. Thus, they are some of the most recent studies published. Just curious, what nutritional parameters or characteristics of biodynamic foods would prove their superiority quality to you? Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Feb 24 23:46:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA24975 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:46:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA01482; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:35:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01403 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:35:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.52] (pm3shep1-163-52.intrepid.net [209.190.163.52]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA29432 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:37:07 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D4C82A.219D@ipa.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:37:35 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 670 > >Just curious, what nutritional parameters or characteristics of >biodynamic foods would prove their superiority quality to you? > >Steve Diver Steve - I'm not asking for myself, of course. I can quite readily detect the life force in food by getting it on my tongue, if not simply by holding it. I have no question about the superiority of biodynamically grown fruits and vegetables. I am, however, often in the position of wishing there were some concise way of explaining to superficially interested materialists why we do what we do. I'm asking if in your search of the literature you ran across any studies which demonstrated in any fashion the superiority of biodynamic food to conventional organic or even to conventionally produce, period. I've read the Tuft's reports and really didn't find so much as a quote I could pass to a non-skeptical inquirer that didn't seem to make the 'differences' seem trivial. It appears to me that the 'objections' you've presented against the possibility of such demonstrations could easily be overcome using animal testing ie in monitoring health, vitality and growth, one wouldn't really have to know what those 'elements' of enlivened foods are that make them better. I realize that there are flaws hidden in this approach also, of course. ( It was proposed to me by a nutritionist that I conduct food quality testing using insects, since they are demonstrative in their appetites and have short life cycles, etc. Of course, if everything we suspect is true of the relationship between insects and truly healthy produce, one would have to expect such a study to demonstrate exactly the opposite of what the nutritionist sought to prove.) Once again, I'm only asking about this because if such a study is actually 'out there,' it could be extremely helpful in communicating with the State College Environmental Studies people, and so on. Thanks -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 00:58:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA26216 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:58:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA07581; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:47:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07375 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:45:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.154] (max8-39.stc.net [208.210.134.167]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA10377 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:47:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:24:27 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Living Energies by Callum Coates Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 671 List: I though I would add to Allan's information here that this book "Living Energies" is the definitive explanation of the work of Viktor Schauberger up until his death in 1958 or 59. Schauberger was a practical genius in the realm of subtle energies underlying water and, in fact, Nature herself. Coates seems to have made a lifework of explicating Schauberger. Two followup books are now in print, "The Water Wizard" and "Nature as Teacher", edited by Coates and both mostly in Schauberger's words. A third book in this "Ecotechnology" series is due out this year. If you like Theodore Schwenk or Olaf Alexandresson's "Living Water," [also about Schauberger], you'll LOVE Coates. Woody WOODY, How right you are, Woody! I shared a forum with Callum in Japan in late November at the Sosei Water Stewardship Conference. His presentation was the best there. Hugh Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "When you learn to love Hell, you will be in Heaven." --Thaddeus Golas From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 01:11:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA26365 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:11:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA09093; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:02:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08826 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:00:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-209.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.209]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA18575 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:02:05 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36D4E8E6.58ED@ipa.net> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:08:38 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Nutritional quality of biodynamic food Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 672 [Changing the heading to reflect the topic of this thread] Allan asks is there is "some concise way of explaining to superficially interested materialists why we do what we do" with regards to the nutritional superiority of biodynamically- grown foods. In other words, what nutritional characteristics of foods can you point to that provide a clear difference between biodynamic versus conventional foods. Well, that's a pickle... because the materialist does not accept dynamic force as a point of reality, especially as it pertains to scientific data and subsequently how it impacts on food policy. Again, I think it would take a bit of time to spin an educational story about a holistic view of food quality. But the one thing that does come to mind as a nice comparison is the paper chromatogram method, also known as circular chromatography. If you had two chromas, one developed from extracts of food raised by conventional methods and the second derived from biodynamic food, that would make a nice comparison that can easily be seen. But as we know from the chroma experience in compost analysis, you really also need a library of chromas to show the whole range of chromas that illustrate classic images from poor to good. In the "Life in the Soil" video from the Nature Farming movement in Japan, there is a comparison of two plate counts. The first agar plate is taken from a soil managed by conventional methods and it illustrates a low diversity of soil microorganisms. The second agar plate is taken from a soil managed by Nature Farming methods and it illustrates a high diversity of soil microorganisms. Thus, it is very easy to see the difference. Fyi, the importance of soil organism diversity becomes more apparent through the video, when ecosystem stability and disease suppression and crop/soil health are correlated to higher microbial diversity. These soil microbial plate counts illustrates a fundamental principle of sustainable agriculture: diversity = stablity & health. By extension, when the innovative image-forming methods such as senstive crystallization and chromatography are used to show differences in food quality, it will also be helpful to know how and why these differences are important to human health. Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 01:15:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA26449 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:15:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA09278; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:05:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09099 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:02:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.139.154] (max8-39.stc.net [208.210.134.167]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA11197 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:04:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D4C82A.219D@ipa.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:41:19 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 673 Steve, What my advisor, Dr. Kneisel, for my chemistry studies said is, "You've got two of the best methods of chemical analysis ever developed that you carry around with you at all times. Taste and smell." Those who will quibble, will quibble. But at our farmer's market I give people samples of tastes and smells from our foods and herbs. And they buy and pay our prices. A lot of them ask why ours tastes or smalls so much better than anyone elses? Because it's really BD. Some of the best of BD, I might add. You'd find lots of PhD's who pooh-poohed taste and smell, but when I think of Dr. Kneisel saying what he did (above) in my first week in his classes I can honestly say it has never let me down. There's no faking the sweet, delicate flavor of my turnips and potatoes or the wonderful aromaticity of my herbs. I made egg salad today with the damaged eggs from pickling eggs. My apprentice said, "That was some really good egg salad. You've got to give me your recipe." Well a large part of that recipe is the egg quality, the dill pickle quality and the Louisiana Hot Sauce quality. I was in a hurry and I didn't put any herbs in it or it would have had even more wonderful flavor. It's nothing one can fake. I'd have to say that in my experience the only way to achieve it is BD. Best, Hugh Lovel >Just curious, what nutritional parameters or characteristics of >biodynamic foods would prove their superiority quality to you? >Steve Diver Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "When you learn to love Hell, you will be in Heaven." --Thaddeus Golas From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 02:22:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA27126 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 02:22:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA13687; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 02:13:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from fatman.acay.com.au (root@acay.com.au [203.7.132.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA13601 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 02:11:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from acay.com.au (windarra@acay01912413.acay.com.au [203.19.124.13]) by fatman.acay.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26723 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:33:21 +1100 From: Margaret Kemp To: BDnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:54:50 +1100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990224194915.006f660c@mail.vt.edu> X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview6 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch Subject: Re: Herbs, Pesticides and Chocolate, too MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 674 To BDers in the USA., Below is part of an e-mail from a list I belong to and as I don't live in USA I hope someone can give a list of places where organic and BD farm produce and other goods can be bought. Perhaps there are ph nos. for each state? I would like info to post to the other list. Thank you Regards Margaret The Consumer Reports article states that "toxicity scores for USDA-sampled > foods show that domestic produce often fared worse than imports. . ." In 26 > [out of 39] cases where foreign produce was tested to compare with > domestic, toxicity scores of US produce was higher, 10 times, in fact, for > peaches. So the conventional wisdom that buying locally grown produce in > season may not protect us as much as we might hope. Organically grown > produce is still a better bet. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 05:16:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA28855 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 05:16:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA21766; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 05:05:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA21644 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 05:03:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.7]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 02:06:19 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990225020010.007dd6c0@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 02:00:10 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad von Zirkwitz Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' In-Reply-To: <36D4C51E.79B3@javanet.com> References: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> <36D36BED.42D4@javanet.com> <36D3AC8E.491A3379@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 675 you wrote: >Thank you Ferdinand for reference to the German site. Unfortunately I do >not know enough Deutsch to translate the site. Anything you are able to >glean from the site or from your forester to share with the list in >English I am sure would be most welcome by all, and 'twould be a >positive path of action for many of us in the face of GE scares etc. >onward, Christian > > There is a translation service at http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate? Just put the following website: http://www.hera-ev.de/ in the white box. Sincerely, Conrad From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 08:04:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA01669 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:04:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01711; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:55:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01256 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:53:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.52] (pm3shep1-163-21.intrepid.net [209.190.163.21]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA12820 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:55:15 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:56:31 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Living Energies by Callum Coates Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 676 > >How right you are, Woody! I shared a forum with Callum in Japan in late >November at the Sosei Water Stewardship Conference. His presentation was >the best there. > >Hugh > >Hugh Lovel >Blairsville, Georgia More! More!! More!!! (please!) -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 08:04:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA01685 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:04:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA01610; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:55:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01251 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:53:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.52] (pm3shep1-163-21.intrepid.net [209.190.163.21]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA12811 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:55:12 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D4E8E6.58ED@ipa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:54:57 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Nutritional quality of biodynamic food Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 677 Steve - Accepting that chromagraphs (?) speak for themselves to some, but not all people, and they would look like just one more example of foo-foo at the State College science lab, wouldn't one expect to find measurable/quantifiable differences in both trace minerals present in biodynamic foods and anti-nutrients, such as the nitrate/nitrite substances, reduced? If my memory serves me well, there are such studies of physical phenomena in the Tuft's studies, but none of them were 'impressive' enough to use as a 'sales point' for biodynamic produce. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 08:31:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA02838 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:31:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA05281; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:21:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd105.hotmail.com [207.82.252.169]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA04942 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:19:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 16323 invoked by uid 0); 25 Feb 1999 13:21:28 -0000 Message-ID: <19990225132128.16322.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 05:21:27 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Kaolin Clay for fruit trees Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 05:21:27 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 678 Bruce, >From my understanding of Kaolin Clay, it is one of the oldest forms of decomposed rock that we know of. It is the base of all china and porcelin products. As a matter of fact the word Kaolin comes from Chinese; meaning "high hill". The CEC of kaolin depends on the age of the clay. Here in the South East, some kaolins have very poor cation bonding properties. Never-the-less, I have found that silicates, no matter the age, are still a primary property of Kaolin. When one finds a class of kaolin with red coloration, less iron has yet leached off to reveal the white nature of kaolin. As far as the fruit tree question goes... mabey silica is missing in the soil properties of those trees which responded favorably to kaolin treatments. Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 10:57:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA08317 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:57:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA24231; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:47:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA23854 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:44:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0214.direct.ca ([204.244.83.30] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10G2zK-0003Uj-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:46:11 -0800 Message-ID: <36D56FF7.CB4F8730@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:44:55 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' References: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> <36D36BED.42D4@javanet.com> <36D3AC8E.491A3379@direct.ca> <3.0.3.32.19990225020010.007dd6c0@mail.alternatives.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 679 Conrad, I know bablefish - the German translation is about as bad as my Chinese into Eskimo...... Regard Ferdinand Conrad von Zirkwitz wrote: > you wrote: > >Thank you Ferdinand for reference to the German site. Unfortunately I do > >not know enough Deutsch to translate the site. Anything you are able to > >glean from the site or from your forester to share with the list in > >English I am sure would be most welcome by all, and 'twould be a > >positive path of action for many of us in the face of GE scares etc. > >onward, Christian > > > > > > There is a translation service at > http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate? > Just put the following website: http://www.hera-ev.de/ in the white box. > > Sincerely, Conrad -- This is the year of my cows. Please email me any info, observations and references on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 11:18:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08885 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:18:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA26943; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:08:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26517 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:05:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.008FF99A@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:07:35 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 11:07:33 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 11:07:07 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:06:58 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <36D4AF86.4F81@ipa.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <10D7965371FB@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 680 > Steve - I've looked your new publication over and remain confused: did you > or did you not find any studies that substantively demonstrate the > superiority of biodynamically produced food? > > -Allan Balliett > igg@igg.com I know you didn't write this to me, but I thought I'd share a site that I found that describes experiments done in Germany (I think) comparing bd to "regular" organic to non-organic. It is: http://members.aol.com/organicfarming/v1/indexe.html Hope you find this useful. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 11:19:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08921 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:19:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA27014; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:08:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26622 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:06:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0214.direct.ca ([204.244.83.30] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10G3Ke-0007Em-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:08:12 -0800 Message-ID: <36D57521.3F9C23D2@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:06:57 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Fruit trees & clay; treatment of trees Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 681 Dear friends: For many years I have treated fruit trees with a mix of 1/3 Clay, 1/3 Cow manure, 1/6 milk and 1/6 silica (or waterglass). The above mix thinly applied (spring and fall) to fruit trees, bushes, roses etc. does work wonders and rejuvenates them within two years (Forest trees appear not to respond in the same way, I found) Perhaps hazel, beech and similar trees may do so. Thinking of the ingredients one can say the following: The Milk constitutes the carrier of the I The Cow Manure constitutes the carrier of the Astro Body The Clay constitutes the carrier of the Etheric Body (always use local clay) The Silica or Waterglass constitutes the carrier of the Physical Body. When you look at an apple tree, you have the inverted human being in front of you. The head is represented by the earth, the limbs in the branches and the sexual organs in the blossoms. Thus was the fall of man, inverted, turned around, standing freely in front of his God, yet, having absorbed within all the parts (the I, Astro, Etheric) that, in the tree are on the outside. Some may wish to draw t his and a most beautiful painting may come about. God works in mysterious ways. Ferdinand -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 11:21:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08989 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:21:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA27497; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:11:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26909 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:08:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.008FFA32@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:10:05 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 11:10:02 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 11:09:37 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:09:29 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SNEAK PREVIEW: Secrets of the Soil and Peter Tompkins Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <10D7A0F57B99@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 682 > Dear Allan and Bd-Now Friends, > What a great interview with Peter Tompkins!! > The only thing I can say after reading this is that I hope that Mr. > Tompkins lives another 80-100 years so he can finish his Steiner and other > research, maybe get his hands on some of that lost/missing/destroyed Reich > material. Am I the only one who has no idea who Reich is/was? Can anyone please fill me in? Anita From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 11:43:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA09629 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:43:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01208; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:34:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00248 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:29:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.199] (pm3shep4-163-199.intrepid.net [209.190.163.199]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22469 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:31:19 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D57521.3F9C23D2@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:32:01 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Fruit trees & clay; treatment of trees Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 683 Dear Ferdinand: How do you apply this mixture? And, the perennial quesion, WHICH clay? Thanks, -Allan igg@igg.com >Dear friends: > >For many years I have treated fruit trees with a mix of > >1/3 Clay, 1/3 Cow manure, 1/6 milk and 1/6 silica (or waterglass). > >The above mix thinly applied (spring and fall) to fruit trees, bushes, >roses etc. does work wonders and rejuvenates them within two years >(Forest trees appear not to respond in the same way, I found) Perhaps >hazel, beech and similar trees may do so. > >Thinking of the ingredients one can say the following: > >The Milk constitutes the carrier of the I >The Cow Manure constitutes the carrier of the Astro Body >The Clay constitutes the carrier of the Etheric Body (always use local >clay) >The Silica or Waterglass constitutes the carrier of the Physical Body. > >When you look at an apple tree, you have the inverted human being in >front of you. The head is represented by the earth, the limbs in the >branches and the sexual organs in the blossoms. Thus was the fall of >man, inverted, turned around, standing freely in front of his God, yet, >having absorbed within all the parts (the I, Astro, Etheric) that, in >the tree are on the outside. Some may wish to draw t his and a most >beautiful painting may come about. God works in mysterious ways. >Ferdinand > >-- > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- > >To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow >(being) I have declared >1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site >addresses, references, >statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 11:43:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA09637 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:43:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01071; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:33:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00230 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:29:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.199] (pm3shep4-163-199.intrepid.net [209.190.163.199]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22456 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:31:16 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <10D7965371FB@agecon.uga.edu> References: <36D4AF86.4F81@ipa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:29:18 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 684 >> Steve - I've looked your new publication over and remain confused: did you >> or did you not find any studies that substantively demonstrate the >> superiority of biodynamically produced food? >> >> -Allan Balliett >> igg@igg.com > > I know you didn't write this to me, but I thought I'd share a site >that I found that describes experiments done in Germany (I think) >comparing bd to "regular" organic to non-organic. It is: >http://members.aol.com/organicfarming/v1/indexe.html > >Hope you find this useful. > >Anita Anita, et al Please ALWAYS consider 'personal' questions on the list to be to EVERYONE! Thanks for your post! Thanks Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 12:47:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11030 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:47:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA08044; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:20:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA07602 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:18:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.106]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:21:48 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990225091534.00850100@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:15:34 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad von Zirkwitz Subject: grape vines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 685 Hi all, does anyone know a good source of grape vines in Canada? My roomate Nathan is gung ho about becoming a viticulturist and would like to start growing a few vines this year. He is also looking for education in viticulture, any advice would be great. Thanks, Conrad From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 13:03:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA11385 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA12497; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:53:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11962 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem15.digisys.net [205.138.110.64]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05789 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:52:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D58E00.DDB5CD32@digisys.net> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:53:04 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA References: <36D4AF86.4F81@ipa.net> <10D7965371FB@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 686 Anita, This URL address gives a "not found." > I know you didn't write this to me, but I thought I'd share a site > that I found that describes experiments done in Germany (I think) > comparing bd to "regular" organic to non-organic. It is: > http://members.aol.com/organicfarming/v1/indexe.html > Pat http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 14:22:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13393 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:22:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23288; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:13:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22913 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:11:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10G6DP-0007gg-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:12:55 -0800 Message-ID: <36D5A048.E2A4785F@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:11:04 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Kow Kost Kalamity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 687 Dear friends, I just got the latest prices for cows from a friend of mine who attended a (relatively) nearby auction. As far as I am concerned, the bottom has been knocked out of the barrell. Fully grown cows, 2 - 6 year old can$ 350.-- (with calf) $450,-- US$ 234.-- / 295 Heifer 200.-- US$ 130.-- Calves 80.- US$ 52.-- These are all maximum auction prices and many cows have sold MUCH below this. I went to the pet shop and saw Koy (fish) selling for $200.-- and more......! Here, a bale of hay (90lbs, Alfalfa) is selling for can$6.50 = US$ 4.25 (if you buy at 500 - 1000 bale quantities from the farm). Reguar hay, Timothy and mix can.$4.-- - US$ 2.60 DELIVERED, unloaded and stacked into your barn. How many farmers can go on? A large number have started to sell their hay to the horse stables (breeders, racing stable etc.) and, with this, make much more than raising cows or producing milk. The fields, therefore, get depleated of just about anything (natural N, P, K and minerals as well as what we call the cow's astrality). Regards Ferdinand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 14:25:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13454 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:25:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23730; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:15:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23249 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:12:47 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6AIMa05309 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:10:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4fd696a6.36d5a02b@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:10:35 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Study L3:2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 688 One cross reference of sorts for the image of nitrogen in the astral: the lecture What do the Angels do in our Astral Bodies? In this lecture R.S. describes how the angels, at home in our etheric, are painting images int our astral bodies constantly. We are to become aware of these images so that we don't sleep through the next stage of evolution. This picture seems analogous to the wonderful weaving of the astral/nitrogen about the plants. Christine From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 14:31:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13582 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:31:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24823; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:22:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24500 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:20:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0090335D@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:22:26 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 14:22:23 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 14:21:54 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:21:53 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <10D7965371FB@agecon.uga.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <10DAD57F1F0B@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 689 > >http://members.aol.com/organfarming/v1/indexe.html > Anita, et al > > Please ALWAYS consider 'personal' questions on the list to be to EVERYONE! > Thanks for your post! > > Thanks > > Allan Balliett > moderator BD Now! > Thanks. Just to let you know, however, this site doesn't seem to be up anymore, which is frustrating. I noted the site when I found it with pen and paper because I didn't know about the bookmark function at that time so I may have made a mistake. Perhaps as moderator of BD Now! you might like to do some investigation of this. I really did see the site and I know that the work is out there somewhere. I hope you are able to find it. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 14:41:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13768 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:40:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA26483; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:31:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26087 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:29:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10G6VU-0007kx-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:31:37 -0800 Message-ID: <36D5A4CE.548AAB8B@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:30:22 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA References: <36D4AF86.4F81@ipa.net> <10D7965371FB@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 690 Anita, The site you indicated does not respond. Regards Ferdinand Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > Steve - I've looked your new publication over and remain confused: did you > > or did you not find any studies that substantively demonstrate the > > superiority of biodynamically produced food? > > > > -Allan Balliett > > igg@igg.com > > I know you didn't write this to me, but I thought I'd share a site > that I found that describes experiments done in Germany (I think) > comparing bd to "regular" organic to non-organic. It is: > http://members.aol.com/organicfarming/v1/indexe.html > > Hope you find this useful. > > Anita > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 14:49:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13988 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:49:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28204; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:40:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27689 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:37:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10G6dJ-0001Hs-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:39:41 -0800 Message-ID: <36D5A6B2.B64E2332@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:38:27 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Fruit trees & clay; treatment of trees References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 691 Dear Allan, There are two (or possibly more) possibility of how to apply. For large orchards, use a sprayer that can pump it in a fine mist right onto the tree trunk. I have seen it being applied with high pressure pumps and since the mix does not do any damage, it can readily fall onto the grass underneath of the trees and may even enhance the growth of grass (if so desired). As I said, the application can be in 'film' form, the tree should look grayish. It is important to spray this mix before the leaves as out as, otherwise, they may get shrivelled due to the waterglass mix. Waterglass seals pores, too. Some orchards may want to test how thick a layer they want to apply going from very thick to thin. Over the years they will surely find what works best for them. If you have only a few trees, take a bucked, make the soup and apply it with a brush or roller. Remember, a sunny dry day is A MUST as, otherwise, the rain would wash it off. Once it has dried it will stay on the trunk and branches until the following year, I find - even in our rainy B.C. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Dear Ferdinand: > > How do you apply this mixture? And, the perennial quesion, WHICH clay? > > Thanks, > > -Allan > igg@igg.com > > >Dear friends: > > > >For many years I have treated fruit trees with a mix of > > > >1/3 Clay, 1/3 Cow manure, 1/6 milk and 1/6 silica (or waterglass). > > > >The above mix thinly applied (spring and fall) to fruit trees, bushes, > >roses etc. does work wonders and rejuvenates them within two years > >(Forest trees appear not to respond in the same way, I found) Perhaps > >hazel, beech and similar trees may do so. > > > >Thinking of the ingredients one can say the following: > > > >The Milk constitutes the carrier of the I > >The Cow Manure constitutes the carrier of the Astro Body > >The Clay constitutes the carrier of the Etheric Body (always use local > >clay) > >The Silica or Waterglass constitutes the carrier of the Physical Body. > > > >When you look at an apple tree, you have the inverted human being in > >front of you. The head is represented by the earth, the limbs in the > >branches and the sexual organs in the blossoms. Thus was the fall of > >man, inverted, turned around, standing freely in front of his God, yet, > >having absorbed within all the parts (the I, Astro, Etheric) that, in > >the tree are on the outside. Some may wish to draw t his and a most > >beautiful painting may come about. God works in mysterious ways. > >Ferdinand > > > >-- > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >------------- > > > >To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow > >(being) I have declared > >1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site > >addresses, references, > >statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. > > =========================================================================== > > BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, > dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food > that promotes human development. > > To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > > listproc@envirolink.org > > In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > > subscribe bdnow > > If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > > a message to listproc@envirolink.org > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 15:17:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA14637 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:17:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA02871; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:06:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02358 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:03:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00903FDD@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:05:53 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 15:05:50 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 15:05:43 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:05:40 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36D58E00.DDB5CD32@digisys.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <10DB907974D4@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 692 > Anita, > > This URL address gives a "not found." > Yeah, that's been pointed out to me already. I appologize. All I can say is I DID see these experiments and they are documented somewhere though they seem to have disappeared from where I found them (or I made a mistake in the address).. I'm hoping someone will be able to sleuth them out. Again, I appologize, I didn't intend to be misleading. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 15:26:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA14866 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:26:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA04577; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:15:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03976 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:12:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.5.215.53] (ppp53.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.215.53]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA15468 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:13:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:13:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: meunier@vaxxine.com (Michel Meunier) Subject: Re: grape vines Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 693 Hello Conrad, I am working in viticulture in the Niagara Region in Ontario. Here are some informations regarding vines and viticulture. >Hi all, >does anyone know a good source of grape vines in Canada? I do not know where you are located in Canada but depending of where you want to grow your grape vines you might have to choose specific varieties. There are different nurseries in Ontario where you can find grape vines. I know some nurseries in the Niagara Region. If you are looking for hybrids you might have to go for EURO NURSERY (905) 562-3312 or MORI NURSERY (905) 468-8440. They also have some Vitis Vinifera. There is also CHATEAU DES CHARMES WINES Ltd that grows specifically Vitis Vinifera varieties (905) 262-4219. My roomate Nathan > is gung ho about becoming a viticulturist and would like >to start growing a few vines this year. He is also looking for education in >viticulture, any advice would be great. There is a 4 years program specialised in Viticulture and Oenology at Brock University (St Catharines, Ont). This is the only place in Canada where you can get a university program and it is specialised in cool climate viticulture. I know that Niagara College is also working to set up a viticulture program. There is also possibility to study and or to get a traning in France. Hoping that thes informations can help! Michel > >Thanks, Conrad St. Catharines, Ont Canada From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 15:30:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA14979 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:30:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05876; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:21:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05366 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:19:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0209.direct.ca ([204.244.83.25] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10G7Hi-0003uJ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:21:26 -0800 Message-ID: <36D5B05D.B3549E92@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:19:41 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: First report on my OSTRICHES Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 694 Dear friends, Let me report what I have been experiencing since the Ostriches (called Susie and Alfred by my Granddaughter) have arrived here. At the moment they were unloaded, I was totally perplexed. They had to lay in a pick-up truck and were wet to their bones. So. what you saw was a grayish feathery being and a blackish feathery being and stick like, dark gray legs, as if a million years old, coming to the fore. I immediately realized that they had only two toes: One (and you cannot say the center toe, since there are only two) one two is huge with an eagle like claw. The toe is about 1 - 1 1/2 inch in diameter and looks extremely powerful. Both animals had sort of a sock over their heads and could not move. They stood in the alley to the box as if cast in iron. The owner pulled them gently by their neck (hardly any feathers) and urged them forward. As soon as the 'sock' was removed, their bleary-shocked eyes starred at me in horror. The looked like hypnotized. I did not dare to go close. A few minutes later, they started to move around and............ had to shit like mad. Anxiety - motion sickness - new environment - etc. and this smelled like chicken shit. The first time I realized that we have 'chicken'. We were told that one egg constitutes 25 chicken eggs and so forth. But, that you can read in a book. When I came back the next morning, the male (black and white) defended the stall, in which they were put. It made itself huge, I mean 9' high, plumage out, feathers flying - and I was in a panic. I really thought I had entered the 'chicken hell or heaven' and I had to make sure whether I was still sleeping. I had never seen a chicken of that size in all my life towering above me. Never. I immediately thought of what Steiner said that when we go through the Devachan (after death) we will find ourselves confronted by all the animals that we have mistreated (also nature, plants, stones, you name it) - and I physically had to cry. I mean, this was overwhelming. You are dwarfed by this enormous rooster - in his panic - full of hatred against mankind, full of mistrust, full of agony and anxiety.......! And I felt excarnated. Totally. There was a millisecond of deep communication going on between the two of us. Panic, anxiety can do this - while the hen, I could not believe it, stood by and watched: agog. Friends, it is difficult to find words when you describe the communication with an animal or a nature spirit. The hen knew. She was full of trust, full of: well here I am! I could even touch here and it felt the same as the (dead) Turkey at Christmas. I had another shock. Never, ever Turkey again - a voice inside me said. Remember, I never stood in front of an animal to which I had absolutely not connection. None at all. They could have come from Mars. I really did not know how to behave. Would I be attacked? I was warned that the legs can hit forward and break my bones. After I left the pen, the horses next door made a noise and now all hell broke loose. The rooster run up and down and knocked everything to pieces. I was amazed. Surely, that's not the way I would want to end. I spoke to him but, ..........how can a chicken understand a human being - a human being who had chicken on his plate (at best). I looked into his eyes and there was NO FEELING at all. A tear was running down his neck, but that was something else. It was water. It was not crying. He looked the same as before - puffed up, aggressive, threatening, 9' tall, looking down on me. God, that did it. A chicken looking down on me. That was exactly the problem. I usually look down on the chicken on the plate and tear and pull - and here, the chicken looks down on me, threatening me. If you could have seen my feathers, or my aura - may have looked the same as the Ostrich's. I must have stood there for five minutes. Alfred's feathers settled down. My aura, too. I prayed asking God not to make the horses run around as I wanted to get out of this pen with bones intact. Then, Alfred shit at me. I was told to stand behind them, not in front as they attack forwards, unlike the horses. So, me shit at by a rooster from 3 1/2' down. What - an insult? Not really. I said to myself that if he can shit, he must be relaxed, like I when I...... (sorry)! The smell was horrible. The hen started to rub against me. Oh, these women, 'I really thought this. Imagine. No enlightenment. Still the old .....ist. I rubbed Susie's fur (on her neck) and she pecked my hand. fortunately, I was wearing gloves. I realized that hey like red, orange, yellow. They really go for it. When I showed these new animals to a friend of ours (who was wearing a red hat) - Susie pulled it off her head. Gone. They really like red, yellow, orange. And since my Heli Hensen is orange, they (now) start pecking at me. Rather forceful. STraight on. Like a knock with a fist. But, the feeling of having been in 'chicken hell' or in the place where we encounter all these past deeds is forcefully lingering on. No more chicken! No more Turkey. No little Moorish Hens or whatever they are called. This is too powerful. In the meantime, Alfred has become a bit tamer. Still, you can tell that he hardly eats out of my hands, whereas she really does.....! Hm...! I can rub her neck, pad her back and (God, here we go again) I feel the Christmas Turkey walking up and down the stable. It sounds hollow if you pad the back. Both birds are molting i.e. loosing a lot of feathers. That's normal, I was told but it looks awful. I brought more food. They have eaten a 25 lb. bag of chicken feed a week. I have to find out whether this is normal. Yesterday, we got a truck load of wood chips. Put it inside the pen and it smells fresh, like the forest. Thanks to BC Hydro. I also mixed in Peat moss since they had opened a bale with their forceful hammering of their beaks. They really can peck at you. More, next time. Regards Ferdinand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 15:41:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA15198 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:41:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07999; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:31:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07538 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:29:52 -0500 (EST) From: LMvine@aol.com Received: from LMvine@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 3UBa003211 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:31:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:31:06 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fruit trees & clay; treatment of trees Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 695 In a message dated 2/25/99 2:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, ferdy@direct.ca writes: << Dear Allan, There are two (or possibly more) possibility of how to apply. For large orchards, use a sprayer that can pump it in a fine mist right onto the tree trunk. I have seen it being applied with high pressure pumps and since the mix does not do any damage, it can readily fall onto the grass underneath of the trees and may even enhance the growth of grass (if so desired). As I said, the application can be in 'film' form, the tree should look grayish. It is important to spray this mix before the leaves as out as, otherwise, they may get shrivelled due to the waterglass mix. Waterglass seals pores, too. Some orchards may want to test how thick a layer they want to apply going from very thick to thin. Over the years they will surely find what works best for them. If you have only a few trees, take a bucked, make the soup and apply it with a brush or roller. Remember, a sunny dry day is A MUST as, otherwise, the rain would wash it off. Once it has dried it will stay on the trunk and branches until the following year, I find - even in our rainy B.C. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Dear Ferdinand: > > How do you apply this mixture? And, the perennial quesion, WHICH clay? > > Thanks, > > -Allan > igg@igg.com > > >Dear friends: > > > >For many years I have treated fruit trees with a mix of > > > >1/3 Clay, 1/3 Cow manure, 1/6 milk and 1/6 silica (or waterglass). > > > >The above mix thinly applied (spring and fall) to fruit trees, bushes, > >roses etc. does work wonders and rejuvenates them within two years > >(Forest trees appear not to respond in the same way, I found) Perhaps > >hazel, beech and similar trees may do so. > > > >Thinking of the ingredients one can say the following: > > > >The Milk constitutes the carrier of the I > >The Cow Manure constitutes the carrier of the Astro Body > >The Clay constitutes the carrier of the Etheric Body (always use local > >clay) > >The Silica or Waterglass constitutes the carrier of the Physical Body. > > > >When you look at an apple tree, you have the inverted human being in > >front of you. The head is represented by the earth, the limbs in the > >branches and the sexual organs in the blossoms. Thus was the fall of > >man, inverted, turned around, standing freely in front of his God, yet, > >having absorbed within all the parts (the I, Astro, Etheric) that, in > >the tree are on the outside. Some may wish to draw t his and a most > >beautiful painting may come about. God works in mysterious ways. > >Ferdinand > > > >-- >> Some questions:How is this different than BD tree paste that has been mentioned in several BD books? How does it perform vs tree paste and what does milk do for the mixture? Dan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 15:45:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA15267 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:45:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA08635; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:34:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07858 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:31:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.37.23.119 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:32:47 -0800 Message-ID: <001201be60fd$953937e0$77172599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: Re: Nutritional quality of biodynamic food Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:29:44 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 696 In 1994 there was (in a CSA brochure) some information about a study done by a company in Chicago (Doctor's Data) which showed The article in the brochure identified Bob Smith as the President of Doctor's Data (
BD elders-
) and said Another post (mailing list SAN) of Dec 96 spoke of the same study and suggested it would be publishe din the Journal of Applied Nutrition (1993, Vol. 15 or 45 - copy not legible - Nr.1) A summary was supposedly published in Focus magazine in Srping of 1994, p3. I have tried to verify these, but have not had any luck with the short amount of time I was able to put into it. Perhaps someone else knows more about this study or can verify it some other way. Would seem important. Cheeers, Andrew agdoc@msn.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 16:03:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA15640 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:03:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12462; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12004 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:51:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00904DFF@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:53:08 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 15:53:05 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 15:52:58 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:52:51 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Kow Kost Kalamity Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36D5A048.E2A4785F@direct.ca> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <10DC5A105471@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 697 I just wanted to share with you all that yesterday, while phoning people regarding a project I'm doing on organic ag here at the university, I came across the most interesting beef farmer (400 acres in Lousianna) who has done all the feasibility studies and worked out a wonderful plan for a very profitable farmer cooperative that includes the processing plant to sell organic beef. His original study was for export to Japan, but there are many possibilities. He said that his goal was to able to assure the member farmers of $1.00/lb live weight which he says would be a decent living for a beef farmer. He's very willing to talk all the details with anyone who would be interested. The crucial part is that it demands farmer cooperation, and this is where he's running into difficulty, not to mention protest by all the current middle men in the conventional beef biz. If anyone out there is interested, I'll be happy to pass along the information. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 16:24:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA16179 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:24:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA17104; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:15:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16534 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:13:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009054EA@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:15:01 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 16:14:58 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 25 Feb 99 16:14:41 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:14:38 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36D5A4CE.548AAB8B@direct.ca> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <10DCB6C36455@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 698 > Anita, > > The site you indicated does not respond. Regards Ferdinand > > Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: To EVERYONE, I'm SO sorry to have put up a web site that no longer does what I swear I saw it once do. I'm as disappointed in this as you are. I have long looked for information comparing bd to regular organic and I was so pleased to finally find one -- and now it's gone! Or maybe I copied the address wrong. I'm hoping that someone out there will find it again and share the valid web site with us all. Anita From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 18:39:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA18965 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:39:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA10434; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:27:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10231 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:26:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.82]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAD25741 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:20:12 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990225152759.00901c10@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:27:59 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: OFF: The Politics of GM Foods In-Reply-To: <10DCB6C36455@agecon.uga.edu> References: <36D5A4CE.548AAB8B@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 699 Dear Friends, Here is a bit on the politics of GM foods: On Tuesday (2/23), USA Today's editors expressed dismay over worldwide resistance to US promotion of GM foods and piously pleaded, "Let science decide." Although they've run full-page ads from the biotech industry in the past, their editorial position could well have been formulated despite that advertising windfall. American journalists tend to fall in love with whatever's new, often without serious research into arguments favoring caution. I suggest expressing your personal position regarding GM foods to USA Today (I hope demanding labeling, at the very least), pointing out that the scientific community is far from united on their safety, etc. To me, basic principles of an open society, due regulatory process, and consumer protection are at stake, *regardless* of the safety of one or another specific crop or food item. At least the issue is surfacing! I've wondered how long it would take to appear. My optimism was fired when a major Canadian newspaper story appeared late last weekend (excerpts and web address follow). Some of their points could serve you well in replying to USA Today. --Dick The Globe and Mail, Saturday, February 20, 1999 Frankenstein foods, By Gwynne Dyer For the unedited original, see http://www.TheGlobeAndMail.com/gam/Focus/19990220/FC20FOOD.html . . . American consumers now had to eat these genetically modified foods, like it or not -- and since the United States exports huge amounts of food, all sorts of foreigners had to eat them, too. Moreover, Monsanto needed a lot of farmers to commit to Round-up Ready seeds before its patent on Round-up herbicide expired, so there wasn't too much time for lengthy trials to see whether its GM products were safe for the consumer and the environment. Mr. Shapiro became one of the biggest contributors of "soft money" to Bill Clinton's 1996 re-election campaign. Next thing you know, he's special trade adviser to the President. Getting GM products onto the shelves of American supermarkets was a no-brainer -- the U.S. media are half asleep, and the public doesn't seem to care what it eats so long as the portions are huge -- and Canadian consumers didn't pose much of a problem, either. Europeans, on the other hand, were deeply suspicious of these "Frankenstein foods," mainly because they had just been through a major health scare over bovine spongiform encephalitis (mad cow disease), which is transmitted from cattle to humans through the consumption of infected beef. Ten years ago, all the experts, apart from a few maverick scientists, were sure that BSE could not cross the species barrier and infect people -- but the alarmist mavericks were right. And that explains, according to John Durant, professor of public understanding at Imperial College, London, why "people in Europe [are now] very sensitive to new technologies in the food supply industry, and very wary of scientists and government attempts to reassure them." Monsanto dealt with European fears (or rather tried to override them) by systematically mixing GM and non-GM products together before exporting them. When the Europeans objected, demanding clear segregation and labelling of GM foods, Mr. Shapiro got his good buddy Bill Clinton to threaten a trade war, and they quickly caved in. (Leaked New Zealand government documents from early 1998 show a similar pattern, with Washington threatening to pull out of a potential free-trade agreement if New Zealand went ahead with its plans for labelling and testing genetically modified foods.) . . . 20 scientists (including two who had worked at the Rowett Institute) published their letter of support for Dr. Pusztai [i.e., for his findings regarding rats fed GE potatoes, reported in previous posts--DK]. And then all hell broke loose in the British media. One signatory, Ronald Finn, a former president of the British Society of Allergy and Environmental Medicine, told a London press conference: "We in the U.K. have just had a very narrow escape following the epidemic of mad cow disease. I think we have probably got away with it. We have been warned once . . . and we should be extremely careful to monitor any further major change in food technology." Another signatory, Jonathan Rhodes, professor of medicine at Liverpool University, went further. "One key problem that keeps coming back time and again is that regulation of food is nothing like as strict as regulation of drugs. And when you start tinkering around with the genetic structure of food, you have to move toward thinking of food products as pharmaceuticals." So what happens now that the cat is out of the bag? For there is not just a lot of money at stake. There is also the conviction on the part of various Western governments, most notably those of the United States, Canada and Britain, that GM technologies will bring them enormous trade benefits in the next century, and thus must suffer no major restriction or delay. In Britain, it's probably a lost cause. Prime Minister Tony Blair is an enthusiastic supporter of GM foods because biotechnology firms contribute generously to his Labour Party, because his friend Bill Clinton phones him from Washington to lean on him, and because he genuinely believes that GM technologies will assist in a British postindustrial renaissance. Government officials and ministers have met companies involved in GM foods 81 times (23 with Monsanto alone) since Labour was elected in 1997, and more than $22-million has been earmarked in aid for British biotech firms. . . . The British government is now in full retreat before an aroused public, and neither threats nor blandishments from Washington will keep it in line. Recent decisions in Strasbourg suggest that the tide in the rest of Europe is running in the same direction. Last week, the European Parliament voted to impose strict corporate liability and mandatory insurance on companies that release GM organisms into the environment, and for much stronger rules on the segregation and labelling of GM foods. In the United States, however, turning the tide is much more difficult. Monsanto, which makes large donations to both the Democratic and Republican parties and to congressional legislators on food-safety committees, has become a virtual retirement home for members of the Clinton administration. Trade and environmental protection administrators and other Clinton appointees have left to take up lucrative positions on Monsanto's board, while Monsanto and other biotech executives pass through the same revolving door to take up positions in the administration and its regulatory bodies. . . . [W]hether GM foods are safe or not, most Americans will be eating them for a long time to come. They will have difficulty even in finding out which foods contain GM products (though most processed foods already do), and they may discover that questioning the safety of any specific GM food publicly leads to a close encounter with a large firm of lawyers. In the rest of the world, however, the backlash is growing fast. . . . Whatever the real problems with GM foods, the strategy for their high-speed introduction throughout the world is shaping up as one of the great public- relations disasters of all time. Public suspicion outside North America is reaching crippling levels, and the reason is not at all mysterious. It is because the biotech firms literally tried to shove the stuff down people's throats without giving them either choice or information. In the words of Malcolm Walker, chairman of the British food-store chain Iceland Foods (which now has banned all GM foods from its shelves), the U.S. food giants' tactic of mixing GM and ordinary soya to make sure it was all contaminated was "secretive, devious, and a terrible thing to do. People want food they can trust." ==end== -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 19:02:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA19281 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:02:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA14396; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:52:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from send204.yahoomail.com (send204.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.128]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA14235 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:51:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990225235326.14914.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.205.40.10] by send204.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:53:26 PST Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:53:26 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: Re:to Jane, re:Reich To: bdnow@envirolink.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 700 Jane, I'm re-reading Fury on Earth, the book by Myron Sharaf about the life of Wihelm Reich, and I was reminded that the archives of Reich and his institue have been sealed for 50 years as per his will in 57. That means that in 2007 we can expect his estate to release many unseen documents about his discoveries/experiments. What a year that will be! bruce ritchie _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 20:11:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA20362 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:11:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA24288; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:01:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from fh102.infi.net (fh102.infi.net [208.131.160.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23962 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:59:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from 208.129.61.104 (pm2-104.1v5.infi.net [208.129.61.104]) by fh102.infi.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA09429 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:01:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36D54FF7.4833@bouldernews.infi.net> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:28:41 -0600 From: Paul Frazier Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: an apprentice view References: <004801be5f91$eb6df0a0$adf2facf@HPAuthorizedCustomer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 701 parker wrote: > > BD elders- >      As an apprentice of three seasons, I will voice some opinions of > working from the other side. The greatest opportunity in the world has > been provided for me through my teachings on the farm and garden. It > has been full of myth, and adventure, and science, and beauty, and > many other cosmic goings on that survive within the invisible tongue > of lived experience. The issue of money has been the only factor to > bring down this experience. We are sentient, ancient people forced to > work within the economic blatherings of a postmodern free market > economy. We are all being subject to the same type of economic > pressures and even though the elder is teaching the student, the > student doesn't enjoy the same security of farm as home. The learning > is always worth more than the money, but the student must leave the > home as farm to re-enter the free market economy. The pressure is > unbelievable to learn a craft these days while still being able to > earn enough money to survive. I believe it is important when one > assesses the work of a student farmer to value in the sacrifices being > made by this person to reach for the "old language", while coping with > financial insecurity. >      It takes a great deal to make that leap from apprentice/intern to > farm manager or owner. I have gone back and forth this winter about > being an over qualified poverty bound intern versus and under > qualified potentially poverty bound farm manager. I know this is the > rub of many folks who would love to work on farms. IT IS NOT THE > MONEY! It is the best life I know, I'm just deep into student loans > like many of the other people I know who want gain knowledge of a > craft, of the land, of the sacred whole. I don't mean to make light of > the concerns of the farmer/elders who expressed their views, just a > note to broaden the picture, maybe. >   >   > to harvest mornings when one is waking up with a rhythm > -Parker Dear Parker, I'll respond to that! I am in the possibly enviable position of having searched high and low for my little piece of nirvana on earth, found it, purchased it, but still can't afford to be there yet. I would love to be able to apprentice with a gifted teacher, but know if I leave my current situation - full time nurse practitioner, two kids in college, house and now future farm to support, something will undoubtedly suffer, probably my and my family's mental health. However, I do see a light at the end of the tunnel after many years of this kind of planning and I'm still young ( well Pretty Young). If I can lend any advice, it would be to be poor when you are young and never forget how to do that. Being economically challenged causes resourcefulness that doesn't come when money is available. As for your insight into the gifts you have been given in your apprenticeship - Bravo, I am green with envy!!! Everyone in the world needs gifted teachers who lovingly guide them in their path, no matter what the craft. Acutally, I think you should consider becoming the teacher - a reverse apprentice situation if you will!~ I bet you'd find there are alot of folks who would jump at the chance to pay you what you are worth to have their vision of a sucessful farm become a reality. I know that's what I'm entering into and I think it will work out fine for both of us - a real stake in the development of two visions. I am a gifted nurse and have perfected that craft over twenty years. I have no illusions about the kind of investment in time and energy it takes to be a master at your craft, so I don't delude myself into thinking I'll have that kind of expertise in farming anytime soon. And there's a time for learning and a time for doing. Sounds like you've hit the edge of the cliff. Go for it!! The best experiences I've had for learning my craft didn't come during my education - they came from the real deal. Warmly, Pat Frazier From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 20:50:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA20872 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:50:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA29406; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:40:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28912 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:37:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GCFj-0002Sg-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:39:43 -0800 Message-ID: <36D5FB12.31CAFA20@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:38:26 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Fruit trees & clay; treatment of trees References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 702 Dear Dan, Can you describe BD Tree paste. I may not know of it. Regards Ferdinand LMvine@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/25/99 2:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, ferdy@direct.ca > writes: > > << Dear Allan, > > There are two (or possibly more) possibility of how to apply. > > For large orchards, use a sprayer that can pump it in a fine mist right onto > the > tree trunk. I have seen it being applied with high pressure pumps and since > the mix > does not do any damage, it can readily fall onto the grass underneath of the > trees > and may even enhance the growth of grass (if so desired). As I said, the > application > can be in 'film' form, the tree should look grayish. It is important to spray > this > mix before the leaves as out as, otherwise, they may get shrivelled due to > the > waterglass mix. Waterglass seals pores, too. > > Some orchards may want to test how thick a layer they want to apply going > from very > thick to thin. Over the years they will surely find what works best for them. > > If you have only a few trees, take a bucked, make the soup and apply it with > a brush > or roller. > > Remember, a sunny dry day is A MUST as, otherwise, the rain would wash it > off. Once > it has dried it will stay on the trunk and branches until the following year, > I find > - even in our rainy B.C. > > Regards Ferdinand > > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > Dear Ferdinand: > > > > How do you apply this mixture? And, the perennial quesion, WHICH clay? > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Allan > > igg@igg.com > > > > >Dear friends: > > > > > >For many years I have treated fruit trees with a mix of > > > > > >1/3 Clay, 1/3 Cow manure, 1/6 milk and 1/6 silica (or waterglass). > > > > > >The above mix thinly applied (spring and fall) to fruit trees, bushes, > > >roses etc. does work wonders and rejuvenates them within two years > > >(Forest trees appear not to respond in the same way, I found) Perhaps > > >hazel, beech and similar trees may do so. > > > > > >Thinking of the ingredients one can say the following: > > > > > >The Milk constitutes the carrier of the I > > >The Cow Manure constitutes the carrier of the Astro Body > > >The Clay constitutes the carrier of the Etheric Body (always use local > > >clay) > > >The Silica or Waterglass constitutes the carrier of the Physical Body. > > > > > >When you look at an apple tree, you have the inverted human being in > > >front of you. The head is represented by the earth, the limbs in the > > >branches and the sexual organs in the blossoms. Thus was the fall of > > >man, inverted, turned around, standing freely in front of his God, yet, > > >having absorbed within all the parts (the I, Astro, Etheric) that, in > > >the tree are on the outside. Some may wish to draw t his and a most > > >beautiful painting may come about. God works in mysterious ways. > > >Ferdinand > > > > > >-- >> > > Some questions:How is this different than BD tree paste that has been > mentioned in several BD books? How does it perform vs tree paste and what > does milk do for the mixture? Dan -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 20:53:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA20907 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:53:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA29840; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:43:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29651 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:42:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GCKU-0002mi-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:44:38 -0800 Message-ID: <36D5FC39.78838A81@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:43:21 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Kow Kost Kalamity References: <10DC5A105471@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 703 Dear Anita, Many thanks for your research. We are such a small producer that we do not have much of a problem to sell whatever beef we produce. But I am sure that there are others. Perhaps, the answer for some is: Small Is Beautiful (or better: Small Is The Answer). We can sell our beef or many times the price that the butcher charges because there is such a demand. I do not want to profiteer at all, but we would ask ourselves how much hay the animal has eaten and how long we had it (our work input) etc. And then, we would arrive at a price which, normally, would cover cost. I do not know whether it is going to work next time again. But, such are the trails and tribulations. Regards Ferdinand Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > I just wanted to share with you all that yesterday, while phoning > people regarding a project I'm doing on organic ag here at the > university, I came across the most interesting beef farmer (400 acres > in Lousianna) who has done all the feasibility studies and worked out > a wonderful plan for a very profitable farmer cooperative that > includes the processing plant to sell organic beef. His original > study was for export to Japan, but there are many possibilities. He > said that his goal was to able to assure the member farmers of > $1.00/lb live weight which he says would be a decent living for a > beef farmer. He's very willing to talk all the details with anyone > who would be interested. The crucial part is that it demands farmer > cooperation, and this is where he's running into difficulty, not to > mention protest by all the current middle men in the conventional > beef biz. If anyone out there is interested, I'll be happy to pass > along the information. > > Anita > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 21:18:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21284 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:18:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03384; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:08:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02822 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:05:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GCgk-0001Ry-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:07:38 -0800 Message-ID: <36D6019D.6A2AAF89@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:06:21 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Y2K News References: <3.0.6.32.19990225144901.00b38b00@pop.igc.apc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 704 Dear Barry, I am ever so glad you are not an Ostrich - Y2K = preparation. Many thanks Ferdinand Barry Carter wrote: > Dear Friends, > > Here is some news about a Senate report on Y2K problems. Please note that > one of the stories referenced is from the Washington Post: > > Y2K news from Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM > http://www.y2knewswire.com/19990225.htm > > Y2K The Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM Daily Report > Daily Y2K news and analysis, free of charge. > > 2/25/1999 - Senate report calls Y2K, "One of the most serious and > potentially devastating events this nation has ever encountered." > > SENATE REPORT DECLARES Y2K IS "ONE OF THE MOST SERIOUS AND POTENTIALLY > DEVASTATING EVENTS THIS NATION HAS EVER ENCOUNTERED." > > The "no big deal" theory has been utterly smashed, Y2K web sites have been > vindicated, and Y2K skeptics everywhere are running for cover (or changing > their story). Why? Here's the most recent reason: > > A not-yet-released Senate panel report has been leaked to several news > organizations, and the report -- the most sobering, say-it-straight, no > B.S. report we've ever seen from the federal government -- doesn't hold > back on the warnings. Although there is some good news in the report, the > warnings are impossible to ignore: Y2K is coming, it's serious, and > stockpiling food is just one of many recommendations now backed by Senators. > > It's only a matter of time before the basic, common-sense preparations > urged by so-called "Y2K alarmists" finally become an obvious choice for > millions of Americans. Being prepared is wise. Ignoring Y2K is just plain > foolish. > > In fact, it can be safely assumed that this Senate report stomps out naive > optimism once and for all, laying at the feet of the American people a > gulp-inducing collection of statements and concerns. From here, we hope, > the useless debate over whether Y2K is real can cease. The only debate > worth considering now is the "how much" topic. As in: how much food, water, > medicine and cash is enough? > > Here's our coverage of two reports from news organizations that have > obtained report details: > > SENATE YEAR 2000 STUDY CONCLUDES Y2K RISKS ARE WIDESPREAD > > [news] > > Details from a special Senate panel report on the Year 2000 problem have > been leaked to the Washington Post. The paper reports, "[the report] warns > that a number of foreign countries and U.S. economic sectors, especially > the health care industry, appear at significant risk for technological > failures and business disruptions." > > Some of the areas singled out in the report as "seriously lagging" on Y2K > remediation include: > > * health care, about which it reports, "...is one of the worst-prepared for > Y2K and carries a significant potential for harm." > > * oil industry > > * education > > * farming > > * food processing > > * construction > > The report also specifically mentions questionable compliance status in > doctors' offices, small businesses, and community 911 services. > > THE REPORT REVEALS UNKNOWNS ARE HUGE > > Here's a direct quote from the report, reprinted in the Washington Post: > "The interdependent nature of technology systems makes the severity of > possible disruptions difficult to predict. Adding to the confusion, there > are still very few overall Year 2000 technology compliance assessments of > infrastructure or industry sectors. Consequently, the fundamental questions > of risk and personal preparedness cannot be answered at this time." > > It mentions that both Japan and Venezuela have underestimated the resources > necessary to repair the problem, implying that neither will be compliant in > time. Then it mentions that Venezuela and Saudi Arabia are 18 months behind > the USA in repairs. [Note: can you name the common link here? Answer: > Venezuela and Saudi Arabia supply 30% of our oil imports. What happens to > our economy, do you suppose, if we lose 30% of our oil?] > > Story at: > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1999-02/24/063r-022499-idx.html > > MORE SENATE REPORT DETAILS ON THE HOTCOCO SITE > > [news] > > According to this Knight Ridder report on the Hotcoco site, the > soon-to-be-released Senate report concludes that, "...while both government > and business have worked hard to correct the Y2K problem, their efforts > began late and remain insufficient, and consequently some incalculable > level of economic disruption is inevitable." > > More importantly, a quote from the Senate panel's co-chairmen warn: > "...this problem will affect us all individually and collectively in very > profound ways. … It will indeed impact individual businesses and the global > economy. In some cases, lives could even be at stake." > > Story at: > > http://www.hotcoco.com/news/natfront/bil61683.htm > > THE Y2K EYE-POPPERS IN THE REPORT: > > SELF-REPORTING: The report says self-reporting may be unreliable. (No > surprise to Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM readers. We've been pointing out this > largely-unnoticed fact for months.) > > LITIGATION: "Potentially monstrous," with as much as $1 trillion in legal > costs expected. > > NATIONAL CONTINGENCY PLAN: Doesn't exist! There's no plan whatsoever. > > ELECTRICITY: Failure of parts of the electric grid are likely, but not a > total collapse of the power grid. (We hope they're right...) > > PHONE SYSTEMS: Expected to work! (That is, unless you're calling 911. > Emergency services are likely to experience widespread failures.) > > PLANES: Won't fall out of the sky, they say. (Not here maybe, but we're > still predicting at least one Y2K-related aviation accident in the next 18 > months.) > > INTERNATIONAL SITUATION: Looking bad. Will definitely not be a bump in the > road. > > THE PRESS: Gets an "F". The report specifically mentions, "Reports in even > the most reputable news sources fall prey to polarization -- either > over-emphasizing the handful of Y2K survivalists or downplaying the event > as a hoax designed to sell information technology equipment." (Too many > members of the press think anybody who makes a dollar selling Y2K-related > information or products is a crook. So they write a story about it and -- > guess what -- they sell their newspapers, magazines and shows with the > headline, "Y2K!" One major news report even accused Walton Feed of using > scare tactics to profit from Y2K. These folks didn't do their homework: > Walton Feed, for the record, has been in this business for over fifty > years, quietly providing storable food to Mormons for decades without even > a hint of alarmism.) > > STOCKPILING: Go for it! Report says stockpiling a "small" amount of extra > food and water may be advisable. (It specifically discourages "extremes" > and doesn't mention cash, heating fuels, or medicine. By the way, please go > out and buy some non-processed food right now: the farmers need the money, > and there's more than enough raw wheat sitting around to provide months of > storage for every family in America.) > > HEALTH CARE: Potential disaster that could severely harm the public. 64% of > hospitals have no plans whatsoever to test their Y2K fixes before 1/1/2000. > (Advice: don't get sick this Christmas. Our prediction: people will die in > hospitals due to Y2K failures.) > > AIR TRANSPORTATION: Thumbs down. Airports started way too late, the report > says, and the FAA, "still has a long way to go." (What happened to that > last 1%? And will it be found before 1/1/2000, or does this last 1% require > five years to fix? See our special section on the FAA below...) > > CASH: The report thinks $200 billion will be enough to cover all withdrawal > demand. (It's walking a fairly skittish line on this issue, making sure it > doesn't encourage bank runs.) > > FEDERAL SERVICES: "Wholesale failures" will not occur they say, but not all > mission-critical systems will be ready. > > FATALITIES: Finally announced as a possibility. The report says, "Lives > could be at stake..." > > Missing from this analysis so far: what about the IRS? It's been very quiet > lately. How about Medicare? How about plans to mobilize National Guard > troops? Any new information on the bio-terrorism / Y2K threat? > > WHAT ABOUT THE OIL THREAT? > > Most importantly, we're wondering whether the report mentions the cause / > effect relationship between oil supplies and our national economy. In 1991, > we went to war over oil. But if the oil stops due to Y2K, there will be > nobody to bomb. We don't need smart weapons, we need smart leaders. > > The report mentions two countries that supply 30% of our oil imports -- > then says they're 18 months behind the United States! That's terrifying > economic news, frankly. While we're wondering whether the U.S. will even > make it, we know one thing for certain: we are not 18 months ahead of > schedule, and that means these two countries, if they are really 18 months > behind us, simply won't make it. > > What will happen to our economy if we lose 30% of our oil? And what about > the other 70% of our oil imports: are those originating countries 100% > compliant? > > Ed Yardeni points to this potential oil crisis as one of the many reasons > he's predicting an economic recession on the 1973 - 74 scale. That > recession, by the way, was primarily caused by an oil shortage. > > The economy isn't software code: once broken, it's not a matter of "fixing" > it and rebooting. An economy, once damaged, takes years to recover. That's > why Ed Yourdon is predicting, "one year of disruption, a decade of > depression." > > For more details on the Senate panel report, stay tuned to Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM. > We'll be reporting on the full Senate panel report when it is released. > Watch for it in the next few days! > > FAA UPDATE > > [news] > > With the Senate panel report now confirming the FAA has a long way to go, > we remind our readers what FAA administrator Jane Garvey claimed in an > interview on November 23, 1998: > > Find the audio archive at: > > http://www.c-span.org/guide/journal/archive/wj19981123.htm > > Click on the "RealAudio Clip" for the segment with Jane Garvey. Fast > forward to 10:40 (ten minutes and forty seconds), you'll hear this: > > 10:40 [Caller asks about Y2K] > > 11:00 Garvey: "As you suggested, really all of our air traffic control is > controlled or linked in some way to computers, so the issue about having > those computers Y2K compliant is absolutely critical. We were a little bit > behind about a year ago, we've caught up, we've met the deadline of > September 30 of having all of our systems renovated, over the next several > months we'll be testing those systems, and that's going to be a critical > piece for us, so we're testing the systems, they will be ready by, umm, > June of 1999. So we're feeling really good about the progress we've made > today, we have a terrific fellow heading that effort and, uh, we're well on > our way." > > Notice, Garvey retroactively claimed on November 23 that they made the > September 30, 1998 deadline! But the Senate panel report clearly indicates > the FAA is nowhere near done, and now it's already five months later. When > some of the systems were finally tested, incidentally, they performed so > poorly they had to be yanked and replaced with the older, non-Y2K-compliant > systems. It seems planes were disappearing from radar. What's the FAA's > status on Y2K right now? We're not really sure, but like most people, we > hope they're working on the code rather than the public relations statements. > > If the FAA actually makes it, with no Y2K problems whatsoever, Garvey will > not only be forgiven for the now-famous 1% statement, she'll be a national > hero. > > ### > > NEW: > Join the Y2K On-Line Preparedness Community > Our research library has expanded to become an entire community for Y2K > preparedness. Members share tips, offer solutions, rate food suppliers, and > more. Now on-line: 'Bartertown' on-line swap center, message boards, > research areas, how-to reports and more. Everything you need to prepare for > Y2K is right here, on-line, with 24-hour access. Read about the Y2K > On-Line Preparedness Community. > > Tell a friend about the free, daily Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM report: > http://www.y2knewswire.com/tellafriend.asp > > If you have a hot tip for us (anonymity assured): > tips@y2knewswire.com > > Sign up for a free daily e-mail alert that brings you the summary of each > day's Y2K report: > Click here to find the signup form on the main page. > > Read user comments > > This page is subject to the following disclaimer: > http://www.y2knewswire.com/Index.asp?pageid=disclaimer > All statements made herein, and made since August of 1998, > are Year 2000 Statements and are retroactively protected > as Year 2000 readiness disclosures under the Good Samaritan Act > > Copyright © 1999. All rights reserved. > > -- > With kindest regards, > > Barry Carter > > Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance > WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm > Voice: 541-523-3357 > Fax: 541-523-9438 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 21:19:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21313 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:19:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03919; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:10:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (root@coffsdns.ecopost.com.au [203.28.69.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03469 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:08:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from bio (kmidc67-75.ecopost.com.au [203.28.67.75]) by coffsdns.ecopost.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA16608 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:10:40 +1100 Message-ID: <00b201be612d$1f9f2aa0$5a431ccb@bio> From: "Cheryl Kemp" To: Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:18:59 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 705 Dear Steve and Allan, Good topic, food quality. There is a wonderful experiment that Pfeiffer did in the book, "Soil and Fertiltity" where he carries out experiments with successive generations of chickens and eggs. He fed one lot on BD food grown in BD compost, and the other lot used organic compost and organic food. He compared fertility, hatching rates and life length, total eggs laid and the outcome was the BD ones came out way in front. The experiment was done in the 1950's, so not full of todays methods and jargon, but a truly living example. Another way that we have looked at is the conformation of vegetables, eg the balance of the cabbage if you cut in two, and also the cauliflowers. Smell is also an indicator, think of the flowers, roses, just magnificent. Artificial fert.caulis stink, especially when cooked. Also the root systems, note the root hairs, the central core in the carrot, you can soon pick the water soluble fertilised compared to BD. The central core of the cauliflower is open and engorged in water fertilised. Peter Proctor always tastes the grass on a farm, to see if it is sweet. And the part I notice most is the smell of the soil and compost. After a while you start to recognise the BD smell, of the certain bacteria. I wonder if it is the same smell in USA /Northern Hemisphere. It is the same in Australia and NZ. And I bet Ferdy could throw in some wonderful insights to the cow smell and the meat of BD cows. I always think that the fact that the BD Viticulturists can get so many gold medals for their wine (in Australia and NZ) plus their Brix tests are so high. shows that the flavour must be coming through. My brother always wins the local Kiwi Fruit judging at the local show for best flavour and shape and size over all the local conventional growers. Must be something going on. What examples do others have? Cheryl Kemp Education & Advisory Coordinator Bio-Dynamic Farming and Gardening Assoc. of Australia Inc. P.O Box 54, Bellingen. 2454. (Office) 627 Tyringham Rd, Dorrigo Nth. 2453 (Home) Phone; + 02 66 575306 Fax 02 66 575322 -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thursday, 25 February 1999 3:39 pm Subject: Re: New BD pub from ATTRA > >> >>Just curious, what nutritional parameters or characteristics of >>biodynamic foods would prove their superiority quality to you? >> >>Steve Diver > >Steve - I'm not asking for myself, of course. I can quite readily detect >the life force in food by getting it on my tongue, if not simply by holding >it. I have no question about the superiority of biodynamically grown fruits >and vegetables. > >I am, however, often in the position of wishing there were some concise way >of explaining to superficially interested materialists why we do what we >do. I'm asking if in your search of the literature you ran across any >studies which demonstrated in any fashion the superiority of biodynamic >food to conventional organic or even to conventionally produce, period. >I've read the Tuft's reports and really didn't find so much as a quote I >could pass to a non-skeptical inquirer that didn't seem to make the >'differences' seem trivial. > >It appears to me that the 'objections' you've presented against the >possibility of such demonstrations could easily be overcome using animal >testing ie in monitoring health, vitality and growth, one wouldn't really >have to know what those 'elements' of enlivened foods are that make them >better. I realize that there are flaws hidden in this approach also, of >course. ( It was proposed to me by a nutritionist that I conduct food >quality testing using insects, since they are demonstrative in their >appetites and have short life cycles, etc. Of course, if everything we >suspect is true of the relationship between insects and truly healthy >produce, one would have to expect such a study to demonstrate exactly the >opposite of what the nutritionist sought to prove.) > >Once again, I'm only asking about this because if such a study is actually >'out there,' it could be extremely helpful in communicating with the State >College Environmental Studies people, and so on. > >Thanks > >-Allan Balliett >igg@igg.com > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 21:32:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21479 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:32:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA05719; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:22:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05394 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:20:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0115.direct.ca ([204.244.83.15] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GCuq-0003Sx-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:22:12 -0800 Message-ID: <36D60507.E7C3FBF8@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:20:55 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: an apprentice view References: <004801be5f91$eb6df0a0$adf2facf@HPAuthorizedCustomer> <36D54FF7.4833@bouldernews.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 706 I just love this list. What a wonderful discussion. I am learning! Ferdinand Paul Frazier wrote: > parker wrote: > > > > BD elders- > > As an apprentice of three seasons, I will voice some opinions of > > working from the other side. The greatest opportunity in the world has > > been provided for me through my teachings on the farm and garden. It > > has been full of myth, and adventure, and science, and beauty, and > > many other cosmic goings on that survive within the invisible tongue > > of lived experience. The issue of money has been the only factor to > > bring down this experience. We are sentient, ancient people forced to > > work within the economic blatherings of a postmodern free market > > economy. We are all being subject to the same type of economic > > pressures and even though the elder is teaching the student, the > > student doesn't enjoy the same security of farm as home. The learning > > is always worth more than the money, but the student must leave the > > home as farm to re-enter the free market economy. The pressure is > > unbelievable to learn a craft these days while still being able to > > earn enough money to survive. I believe it is important when one > > assesses the work of a student farmer to value in the sacrifices being > > made by this person to reach for the "old language", while coping with > > financial insecurity. > > It takes a great deal to make that leap from apprentice/intern to > > farm manager or owner. I have gone back and forth this winter about > > being an over qualified poverty bound intern versus and under > > qualified potentially poverty bound farm manager. I know this is the > > rub of many folks who would love to work on farms. IT IS NOT THE > > MONEY! It is the best life I know, I'm just deep into student loans > > like many of the other people I know who want gain knowledge of a > > craft, of the land, of the sacred whole. I don't mean to make light of > > the concerns of the farmer/elders who expressed their views, just a > > note to broaden the picture, maybe. > > > > > > to harvest mornings when one is waking up with a rhythm > > -Parker > Dear Parker, > I'll respond to that! I am in the possibly enviable position of having > searched high and low for my little piece of nirvana on earth, found it, > purchased it, but still can't afford to be there yet. I would love to > be able to apprentice with a gifted teacher, but know if I leave my > current situation - full time nurse practitioner, two kids in college, > house and now future farm to support, something will undoubtedly suffer, > probably my and my family's mental health. However, I do see a light at > the end of the tunnel after many years of this kind of planning and I'm > still young ( well Pretty Young). If I can lend any advice, it would be > to be poor when you are young and never forget how to do that. Being > economically challenged causes resourcefulness that doesn't come when > money is available. > As for your insight into the gifts you have been given in your > apprenticeship - Bravo, I am green with envy!!! Everyone in the world > needs gifted teachers who lovingly guide them in their path, no matter > what the craft. Acutally, I think you should consider becoming the > teacher - a reverse apprentice situation if you will!~ I bet you'd find > there are alot of folks who would jump at the chance to pay you what you > are worth to have their vision of a sucessful farm become a reality. I > know that's what I'm entering into and I think it will work out fine for > both of us - a real stake in the development of two visions. I am a > gifted nurse and have perfected that craft over twenty years. I have no > illusions about the kind of investment in time and energy it takes to be > a master at your craft, so I don't delude myself into thinking I'll have > that kind of expertise in farming anytime soon. And there's a time for > learning and a time for doing. Sounds like you've hit the edge of the > cliff. Go for it!! The best experiences I've had for learning my craft > didn't come during my education - they came from the real deal. > Warmly, Pat Frazier -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 22:02:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21962 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:02:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA09252; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:52:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA08757 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:50:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.29] (pm3shep4-163-187.intrepid.net [209.190.163.187]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21616 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:51:59 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D60507.E7C3FBF8@direct.ca> References: <004801be5f91$eb6df0a0$adf2facf@HPAuthorizedCustomer> <36D54FF7.4833@bouldernews.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:41:59 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: an apprentice view Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 707 >I just love this list. What a wonderful discussion. I am learning! Ferdinand Dear Ferdinand - Sounds like you have had great success attracting WWOOFers. How about posting the listing your farm's been running in their annual publication so the rest of us can have a clue! Thanks -Allan igg@igg.com =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Feb 25 22:17:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA22191 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:17:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA10995; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:08:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10887 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:06:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.29] (pm3shep3-163-157.intrepid.net [209.190.163.157]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA25178 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:08:57 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:10:22 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Gunther Hauk Beekeeping Class (?) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 708 Anyone have the dates and info on this upcoming (?) class? Thanks -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 00:18:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA23939 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:18:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA24324; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:08:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f27.hotmail.com [209.185.131.90]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA17174 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:03:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 11517 invoked by uid 0); 26 Feb 1999 04:05:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19990226040523.11516.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.106.151 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:05:23 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.106.151] From: "Connie Gilbert" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Study - shall we continue... Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:05:23 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 709 >From: "Michael Smith" >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Subject: Re: Study - shall we continue... >Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:56:52 PST snipped quite a bit for brevity > >For example; I have recently seen one author point to the basic elements >of the universe as: Earth, Air, Fire, Water And Ethers. > >Ethers as a Basic element? While it is possible to see how ethers may >act on and with any of the other elements, I had never considered the >context of ethers before reading and learning the Ag Lectures. Could >you enlighten me as to how I may learn more about this thing called >ether? > >Sincerely, >Michael. > > Allow me to interject here, if you will. The concept of these 5 elements is quite esoteric and ancient. They also have been described as earth, air, fire, water, and 'spirit'. Ether refers to what is 'etherical' rather than the gas by the same name. You could describe it as an energy, the stuff that pure life is powered by. If you want to learn more about it, the quest can take you on a lifetime of metaphysical studies. Knowing that one person's magic is the next person's technology, I took up this quest 25 years ago. I'm still figuring it out. Lynnaea ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 00:18:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA23947 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:18:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA24210; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:08:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA14727 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:39:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.143.81] (max14-22.stc.net [208.210.137.150]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15469 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:41:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <10D7A0F57B99@agecon.uga.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:18:19 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: SNEAK PREVIEW: Secrets of the Soil and Peter Tompkins Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 710 >> Dear Allan and Bd-Now Friends, >> What a great interview with Peter Tompkins!! > >> The only thing I can say after reading this is that I hope that Mr. >> Tompkins lives another 80-100 years so he can finish his Steiner and other >> research, maybe get his hands on some of that lost/missing/destroyed Reich >> material. > >Am I the only one who has no idea who Reich is/was? Can anyone >please fill me in? > >Anita Anita, Wilhelm Reich was one of this century's great geniuses. One of Sigmund Freud's most brilliant students, he soon enough grew impatient with the slow progress of free association and talk therapy in general. It failed to get down to the first few hours, days, week and months in a newborn's life when most of the reactive patterning takes place. What he developed was a body work method that worked directly on the way people held their ridges and blocks in their musculature. One thing led to another and he discovered that what really made people tick was life energy, which he coined a word for calling it Orgone Energy. I don't suppose he ever really encountered Steiner's work, though Reich was a lifelong student of Goethe (as was Schauberger, and, of course, Steiner--all these Austrians!) After a while he discovered that there was not only bound "orgone" energy in living organisms (one of the things he discovered was bions, the precursors of microbial life) but there was also free "orgone" in the environment. He developed orgone accumulators to collect orgone energy and a person sitting in such a collector for a short while could gain a charge of vitality. He wanted to investigate the physics of his discoveries and tried to enlist Albert Einstein's help. At first, when Reich showed one of his 17-fold life energy accumulators to Albert Einstein at Princton, Einstein was intrigued by the increase of warmth inside as compared to room temperature. What could account for it? What did this accumulator accumulate? Reich called it "orgone" energy or life energy, and enumerated some of the rules. For example, life energy was attracted by living, organic material, such as wood venier or cotton or wool cloth. It also could be conducted by metalic or mineral materials such as copper, gold or galvanized steel. Thus an accumulator could be made by taking a galvanized box and covering it with wool cloth. Layers could be added of metal/organic, metal/organic, etc. and as long as the metal was covered on the outside by the organic material life energy would be drawn into the accumulator. With life energy likes attract. Life energy flows from low concentration to high concentration, an unusual concept in physics. Einstein was well up in years, and could see that validating Reich's discovery would leave a chasm behind him in terms of his life's work. Why should he would want to do that? So Einstein dismissed Reich's orgone demonstration as a fluke variation in the room's air currents, terminated the investigation and left Reich to assail the conventions off physics alone. This was disappointing but it did not particularly daunt Reich, who was an incandescent investigator into the nature of life and strikingly innovative in every branch of science he touched. Proceeding with his orgone research, however, he increasingly stirred a hornet's nest, eventually falling victim to Morris Fischbein's and his FDA witchhunts. Convicted for violating a federal injunction based on the FDA's contention that orgone energy did not exist (shades of government dictating what is science), he died in Federal Prison with many of his published works and experimental devices destroyed by court order, a classic case of book burning and scientific suppression in 20th century America. No doubt Peter Tompkins would love to investigate the Reich Archives at his research center "Organon" in Rangely, Maine, but the curator of the estate, Mary Higgins, forbids it and forbids it for everyone across the board. I hope this helps answer your question. I'd recommend reading FURY ON EARTH, a biography of Reich that you might find in print or in the library. Reich books have a tendency to disappear from libraries, but search and you'll find some interesting things anyway. Best, Hugh Lovel Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it." --Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 03:12:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA25954 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 03:12:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA07438; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 03:01:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from quark.pioneernet.net (pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26726 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:37:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902260537.AAA26726@envirolink.org> Received: from jan (c53.pioneernet.net [208.240.198.53]) by quark.pioneernet.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id FVYDK8MK; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:37:07 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "jan stettler" To: Subject: Bioengineering: "Smoke good" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:47:20 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 711 In Steiner's Agriculture, he draws an interesting connection between brain process or mentation and alimentation or intestinal elimination. The number of people confused by my initial offering on this subject indicates that my mentation was painfully hard and compalct. There are certain problems with an agricultural system based on the "indications" offered by a clairvoyant. First, there is a natural tendency to embrace mere "indications" as the tenets of a gospel. Steiner actually offered enormous latitude; e.g., if not a stag bladder then use the bladder of an indigenous animal (perhaps, a kangaroo). Second, because clairvoyance is associated with mysticism, certain individuals whose mental fabric is woven a little "loose" are given license to relieve themselves with very loose mentations; e.g., Bill Gates' name can be numerically translated to prove he is the Beast of 666, or that the sixth seed will possess magical properties and not be genetically identical with every other see on a cob of corn. My effort in addressing the bioengineering question was certainly not to be an apologist for Monsanto. Without being paid well, who would assume that role? It was simply to point out that the one and only piece of experimental data may be flawed as many animal analogue studies have proven to be. Without knowing the exact experimental protocol, all that remains is dramatic journalistic prose. Conventional farmers, with their numerous chemical inputs, operate on a very slender margin, perhaps only $100 per acre for potatoes. Expensive patented seed stock may succumb to what's called "the wisdom of the marketplace". Fortunately, in my region, there are no pests that would justify the expense. There's actually a much larger issue looming on the horizon. Biotechnology is a growing tidal wave which we're only seeing the first applications of may seem to be short sighted and of poor quality in application, but predicted to bring financial returns to justify massive R&D budgets. With a world population rapidly approaching six billion (this translates to a net gain every three days capable of populating a city the size of San Francisco), fertile soil is being gobbled up wildly, while crop yields remain fairly static. This is where my reference to Dr. Alan Kapuler comes in. Dr. Kapuler, an intellectual descendent of Luther Burbank, has developed a number of useful food plant varieties. He is a first rate visionary with a deep and abiding respect for the evolution of people/plants and a zeal for protecting the raw genetic material of all planet life. He's probably disappointed by Bt-potatoes, since in his vision, trans-genetic manipulation is the planet's only hope of adequately feeding its minions. His studies have shown that not all varieties are created equal in terms of their respective amino acid profile. All animal life requires protein synthesis from twenty plus amino acids. One tomato variety may have significantly more of these amino acids. Why not, he suggests, use genetic engineering to complete the amino acid profile thereby making some native stock more nutritious? Why not alter oceanic plants to produce cultivated food products? The applications are endless and beneficial. If his vision has substance, scientists can't be trusted to separate the good from the chaff, even though they pretend to be ethically neutral. There is an inevitability here that requires us to be fully conscious and therefore critical consumers of scientific data. Full fledge materialism is a deadly sin, as Steiner pointed out. Farmers must make a living, however. If farmers are able to do that and serve the greatest good for the greatest number by accessing new technology, where's the harm? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 03:13:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA25971 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 03:13:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA07512; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 03:02:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from quark.pioneernet.net (pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26731 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:37:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902260537.AAA26731@envirolink.org> Received: from jan (c53.pioneernet.net [208.240.198.53]) by quark.pioneernet.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id FVYDK8MX; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:37:13 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "jan stettler" To: Subject: Re: OFF Bill Gates - can anybody verify this post! Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:51:03 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 712 Thank you! ---------- > From: Dr. Andrew Lorand > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: OFF Bill Gates - can anybody verify this post! > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 5:14 AM > > Dear Ferdinand and others, > > I get many inquiries about biodynamics from public sources: TV stations, > newspapers, universities, non-profits, students and other friends. They all > are interested in knowing more about biodynamics as a way of working with > agriculture. I try to give them a few simple points about biodynamics, > suggest that they visit biodynamic farms and gardens, perhaps pick up a book > or two and check out the web. People always ask about the web and > information. So I give them the list I just posted for Kelly. Including this > BDNow list. I still read the posts here, often to my delight, even if I > cannot participate the way I would like due to time constraints. > > However, posts like this one on Bill Gates, despite being interesting > perhaps to some, have little to offer those seeking information and > conversation on biodynamics. PLEASE, at least post such notes with the OFF > prefix to indicate that it is OFF topic. The quality of our BDNow list will > improve if we stay on topic and focus on biodynamics. Bill Gates, the > Antichrist and other computer related issues belong, IMHO, on a different > list. > > Sincerely, > Andrew From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 03:13:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA25975 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 03:13:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA07335; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 03:01:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ark.com (root@mars.ark.com [209.53.216.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21282 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:47:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.53.216.59] (io1p27.ark.com [209.53.216.59]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with SMTP id UAA18454 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:49:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199902260449.UAA18454@ark.com> Subject: Cow talk Date: Thu, 25 Feb 99 20:49:35 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Lang Price To: "BD forum" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 713 Hallo Ferdy I enjoyed your ostrich story. I hope things are going better with them. But you wanted cow stuff, so I'll put in what I have noticed over here in Courtenay on Vancouver Island, B.C. (I know Ferdy that you know where I am at, but not too many others on this list do, so that info. is for their "benefit"). We got 2 Jersey cows "on loan" from a local farmer friend on the 11 of January. With them came 2 nursing calves, they are Holstein-Hereford cross. So it's quite amusing to see the mostly white calves with some black spots, running around the brown "Mammas". What we noticed right away was the Heaviness of the cows. We have had horses here for at least 8 years and I find them "Springy".I mean the feeling I get from the the cows is that they are HEAVY. Eventhough the Jersey's are smaller than the horse we have. Observation #2 is that we find the feeling of our farm to be more complete now. Not that we felt there was something missing, but now that we have the cows here, it feels more whole, more complete. It might have something to do with the use of our land. The cows will be going in the spring, summer etc into pastures previously only hayed before.These fields are also the furtherst from our house and barns. Last summer I had the realisation that our farm was totally lopsided towards the southwest. Our vegetable fields are in that corner and that is where all the energy goes and all the money and all the labour and all the attention etc. So the cows are helping to level the farm out. At least thats what it feels like already. We will also (have to) pay more attention to these back fields, because we plan on doing rotational grazing with electric fencing. While working on updating our farm map, I realized that we put the cows in a part of our huge haybarn that's pretty well dead centre in the middle of our farm! If Biodynamics is about balance, than I am thinking that the cows and calves that are here at the moment are certainly doing a balancing act. Well thats all for now. Greetings from Marjan de Jong at On Line Farms From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 03:13:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA25979 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 03:13:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA07562; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 03:02:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from quark.pioneernet.net (pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26736 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:37:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902260537.AAA26736@envirolink.org> Received: from jan (c53.pioneernet.net [208.240.198.53]) by quark.pioneernet.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id FVYDK8QA; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:38:58 -0800 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "jan stettler" To: Subject: BDnow Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:27:21 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 714 Please UNSUBSCRIBE BDNOW. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 08:33:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA28433 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:33:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA26368; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:24:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26094 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:21:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.74] (pm3shep2-163-74.intrepid.net [209.190.163.74]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25529 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:23:08 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:17:28 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Of Interest for "6th Seed," etc. Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 715 It seems that nobody received this message yesterday and I am sending it again. This is a one time email to offer you our services. If you need them now or in the future you will be happy to receive this email. If not, just delete it and you will not hear from us again as the list is deleted after being used. We are a network of translators working from our home. We offer quality and experience at a competitive price. We have a system of team leader reviewing the work done by his/her translators and sent to the head office for proofreading. This means we have 2 levels of quality control when working on large volume translations: the reviewer and the proofreader. We offer this service at a price below the market price because we work as a team in our specialty, which means knowledge and speed and thus time saving. Our turnaround time is also very fast. If you have a need for translation in any language, send us an email or visit our website for more information. Christian Faucheux http://www.all-languages.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 08:58:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA28699 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:58:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA28750; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:47:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28395 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:45:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp36.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.136]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id HAA16528 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:44:57 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <004c01be618e$1d4d2d40$884b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Biotech Cheerleading & UNSUBSCRIBE Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:44:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 716 Hey, isn't this like sticking your tongue out at everyone & then running off? Posting an eloquent & intellectual, but arguably flawed argument for biotechnology based on the very marketing mantra Monsanto chants to the farming community (I hear this crap on my local conventional farm list) "to feed the burgeoning population" and "farmers need to make a living" then UNSUBSCRIBING in the next post... Thank GOODNESS there are "certain individuals whose mental fabric is woven a little "loose" (And that means you, I guess, Ferdy). Maybe this ex-subscribers mental fabric is woven a bit too tightly, and thus the problem with our current state of affairs... Adios Jan...maybe the Monsanto site hosts a BioTechNow! list for you to participate in... Julie M. -----Original Message----- From: jan stettler To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 2:03 AM Subject: BDnow >Please UNSUBSCRIBE BDNOW. > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 09:05:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28852 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:05:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA29218; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:53:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29115 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:52:58 -0500 (EST) From: LMvine@aol.com Received: from LMvine@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LPRQa07784 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:54:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <814f5212.36d6a78d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:54:21 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fruit trees & clay; treatment of trees Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 717 In a message dated 2/25/99 8:42:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, ferdy@direct.ca writes: << Dear Dan, Can you describe BD Tree paste. I may not know of it. Regards Ferdinand LMvine@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/25/99 2:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, ferdy@direct.ca > writes: > > << Dear Allan, > > There are two (or possibly more) possibility of how to apply. > > For large orchards, use a sprayer that can pump it in a fine mist right onto > the > tree trunk. I have seen it being applied with high pressure pumps and since > the mix > does not do any damage, it can readily fall onto the grass underneath of the > trees > and may even enhance the growth of grass (if so desired). As I said, the > application > can be in 'film' form, the tree should look grayish. It is important to spray > this > mix before the leaves as out as, otherwise, they may get shrivelled due to > the > waterglass mix. Waterglass seals pores, too. > > Some orchards may want to test how thick a layer they want to apply going > from very > thick to thin. Over the years they will surely find what works best for them. > > If you have only a few trees, take a bucked, make the soup and apply it with > a brush > or roller. > > Remember, a sunny dry day is A MUST as, otherwise, the rain would wash it > off. Once > it has dried it will stay on the trunk and branches until the following year, > I find > - even in our rainy B.C. > > Regards Ferdinand > >> Ferdinand, treepaste as described separately by both Pfeiffer and Proctor is 1/3 sticky clay or bentonite, 1/3 manure and 1/3 silica sand or diatomaceous earth. Please provide more info on your tree spray like where it originated and test data performance if available. Seems similar to BD tree paste but milk?? Dan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 09:22:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA29613 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:22:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00668; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:11:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00442 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:09:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.19] (pm3shep1-163-19.intrepid.net [209.190.163.19]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02067 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:11:32 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902260537.AAA26726@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:11:49 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Bioengineering: "Smoke good" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 718 Tony Stettler Wrote: > With a world population rapidly approaching six billion (this >translates >to a net gain every three days capable of populating a city the size of San >Francisco), fertile soil is being gobbled up wildly, while crop yields >remain fairly static. This is where my reference to Dr. Alan Kapuler comes >in. > Dr. Kapuler, an intellectual descendent of Luther Burbank, has >developed a >number of useful food plant varieties. He is a first rate visionary with a >deep and abiding respect for the evolution of people/plants and a zeal for >protecting the raw genetic material of all planet life. He's probably >disappointed by Bt-potatoes, since in his vision, trans-genetic >manipulation is the planet's only hope of adequately feeding its minions. > His studies have shown that not all varieties are created equal in >terms >of their respective amino acid profile. All animal life requires protein >synthesis from twenty plus amino acids. One tomato variety may have >significantly more of these amino acids. Why not, he suggests, use genetic >engineering to complete the amino acid profile thereby making some native >stock more nutritious? Why not alter oceanic plants to produce cultivated >food products? The applications are endless and beneficial. > If his vision has substance, scientists can't be trusted to >separate the >good from the chaff, even though they pretend to be ethically neutral. >There is an inevitability here that requires us to be fully conscious and >therefore critical consumers of scientific data. > Full fledge materialism is a deadly sin, as Steiner pointed out. >Farmers >must make a living, however. If farmers are able to do that and serve the >greatest good for the greatest number by accessing new technology, where's >the harm? "Where's the harm?" A great shark attack my Mr. Stettler, an old friend of mine, whom I met, btw, when he came up behind me way back then before the Beatles while I was waiting for the Jr High School metal shop's doors to reopen after lunch and used me as a unwitting dummy to demonstrate to two linebackers the wonders of leverage and kung fu. Without warning, he threw me across his back and onto a linoleum covered concrete floor. Of course, this only brought him to my attention and the story goes on from there... Now the man posts under his wife's name, questions the intellectual strength of some of BD Now members, concurs with Andrew Lorand, and appears to support the concept of genetic engineering within the framework of feeding the oilfire of overpopulation...and then logs off from BD Now! "shibboleth" indeed! It's left for me to clarify Dr Kapuler's position on GE, which I'm hardly the man to do. Suffice it to say, Al Kapuler is one of the brightest scientists this country has produced since world war II. (This isn't romaticism, before he broke with the establishment, he had earned the citations to substantiate my statement.) He is certainly one of the few who has put his genius into service of the biosphere instead on into his own private interests. As a scientist, however, he is open to the idea that part of the sacredness of nature is that God gave it to man's mind to examine every facet of it's wonders. Where I see DNA as something sacred that should not defiled in a mechanical way, I'm sure Al Kapuler sees it as another potential for modifying our environment. Unlike the GE scientist, however, Dr Kapuler has a deep respect for the wisdom of nature. He actually has a quote from a prominent GE scientist "99% of DNA is JUNK." This lack of respect for the wisdom of Nature is what will undo all of us if allowed to procede; this lack of understanding of the redundant systems that life contains, this failure to realize that 'natural mutations' are actually 'expressions,' or options already contained within the forms. (Part of what Wm McDonough has referred to as 'Survival of the FITTINGness.") If nothing else, I know that Dr Kapuler is aware that 'when tinkering, never lose any of the pieces.' I've contacted Dr Kapuler and offered him a chance to enter into dialogue with this list. He is in Central America right now, undoubtedly working with Gabriele Howarth on boosting the diversity in the Peace Seeds inventory. His wife Linda has told me that she imagines that Al will be happy to talk to us when he gets back. I think it is important that he has a opportunity to clarify his position, and, as usual when Dr. Kapuler is around, I imagine that many of us will find his insights to be very thought provoking. I'd like to make it clear: I don't support x-species GE regardless of what the immediate benefits of it may be (like one ton squashes that remediate urban sludge but are still highly nutritious (and benign!) for humans). I do think we need to honor the Sacred and intuitively I find the DNA code and natural gene pools to be Sacred. In addition, of course, I've seen so much damage done by USDA scientists that even if I were an atheist I would have to protest their tampering with the stuff of Life. I should also emphasize that we are talking about Dr Kapuler's intellectual musings here and there is absolutely no reason to believe that he has changed his position on providing pure heirloom open-pollinated seed through his seed company. Just my thoughts, -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 09:25:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA29667 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:25:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01016; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:14:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00763 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:12:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GO2C-0000vW-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:14:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36D6ABFB.D7053C9C@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:13:15 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Bioengineering "Smoke good" Kagoroo bladder/Stag bladder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 719 Dear Ian, When you meditate in front of a stag bladder you will become aware of the fact that it emanates (radiates) light in a very unique way. It appears (at least to me) as if a moon light quality of light was present. When we follow the dear during his yearly rhythm, (I did this many times) we find him on crests, hills, even mountain tops during the summer months and, lower down, in the valleys, during fall and winter. And there are many more points. I do not know whether you have touched a (living) stag's antlers. They are full of blood. One can feel the heart beat in it. The blood is moving on the surface of the antlers, along the very periphery. The stag's blood can, I think, send his blood all the way into the very 'neighbourhood' of the sun forces - into the circle of the Golden Vliess. The stag appears to be the Royal Carrier of the Sun's etheric gown. >From the periphery, my friend, the blood returns inwardly, towards the bladder and, what the horns have collected, is being secreted in the bladder. We have an expansion and contraction - an outward movement and an inward movement. From the very far reaches to a dense point inside the animal. The stag's blood has collected from the cosmos the etheric energies; and they are held in its bladder (and transformed) - and one could say that these energies have been transformed into a form, namely: the stag's bladder. This is a very crude way of expressing it since form and etheric energy are not the same, however, it does manifest itself there, in the form. One could perhaps say that the etheric energies have taken up very fine material parts and deposited them in such a way that they have become the stag's bladder. And the Yarrows plant, in a similar way, in an even more cosmic way, does the same. Combined, the two do strengthen each other! I cannot say how a kangaroo bladder can express the etheric forces. I am sure it does this to a certain extent, too. However, I have never tested nor experienced the emanation of light by a kangaroo (perhaps in Whinney-the-Poo.....). But, joking aside, during the winter months, we often find that the cavern in which we have buried the stag/yarrows bladder, does radiate a wonderful, soft, moon-light like light. It streams all the way to the surface of the earth. This can take a few minutes or as long as an hour or so. I do not think that Steiner offered all that much of latitude when it comes down to it. I believe that IF you truly wish to transform his indications for Kangaroo Land (Australia), you have to do more than simply fill spaghetti into a Cuckoo bladder (if it has one) and throw it at a compost. That's imho. Regards Ferdinand PS The above studies do fill weeks ofobserving, painting, clay modelling, poetry, sculpturing, meditations, discussions etc. in our apprenticeship training program -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 09:26:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA29714 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:26:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA01071; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:14:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00915 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:13:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.19] (pm3shep1-163-19.intrepid.net [209.190.163.19]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02806 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:15:44 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902260537.AAA26736@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:17:15 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: BDnow Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 720 >Please UNSUBSCRIBE BDNOW. Don't forget, folks, you can make your exit from BD Now! even more abrupt and skillfull if you follow the directions below. (The above is sort of like stumbling on the curtain as you exit stage left.) -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! igg@igg.com =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 09:46:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00304 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:46:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA03698; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:35:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA03608 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:34:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GONv-00049k-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:37:00 -0800 Message-ID: <36D6B13E.941935F7@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:35:42 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Cow talk References: <199902260449.UAA18454@ark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 721 Many, many thanks for your observations. Cows, indeed, are more earth bound than horses. That is my feeling, too. And I must commend you on your fine balancing work. That is truly BD. You said it ever so well: a feeling it is. We observe our feeling(S) and with that we can (after years) analyse it intelectually (if we really have to). But BD starts with the FEELING. We must learn to leave the intellectual hacking away and concentrate on our heart shakra. Too often do I see people wandering around these days with head (shakras) that are totally out of control. Mind you, it is not entirely their fault since, as little children already, they have been told to THINK< THINK AND THINK. Who says to a little child: FEEL< FEEL> FEEL >. That word apparently seems to be unwanted. Marjan, your observations are exactly what I need. Many thanks. Ferdinand Lang Price wrote: > Hallo Ferdy > > I enjoyed your ostrich story. I hope things are going better with them. > But you wanted cow stuff, so I'll put in what I have noticed over here in > Courtenay on Vancouver Island, B.C. (I know Ferdy that you know where I > am at, but not too many others on this list do, so that info. is for > their "benefit"). > We got 2 Jersey cows "on loan" from a local farmer friend on the 11 of > January. With them came 2 nursing calves, they are Holstein-Hereford > cross. So it's quite amusing to see the mostly white calves with some > black spots, running around the brown "Mammas". > What we noticed right away was the Heaviness of the cows. We have had > horses here for at least 8 years and I find them "Springy".I mean the > feeling I get from the the cows is that they are HEAVY. Eventhough the > Jersey's are smaller than the horse we have. > > Observation #2 is that we find the feeling of our farm to be more > complete now. Not that we felt there was something missing, but now that > we have the cows here, it feels more whole, more complete. It might have > something to do with the use of our land. The cows will be going in the > spring, summer etc into pastures previously only hayed before.These > fields are also the furtherst from our house and barns. Last summer I had > the realisation that our farm was totally lopsided towards the southwest. > Our vegetable fields are in that corner and that is where all the energy > goes and all the money and all the labour and all the attention etc. So > the cows are helping to level the farm out. At least thats what it feels > like already. We will also (have to) pay more attention to these back > fields, because we plan on doing rotational grazing with electric fencing. > > While working on updating our farm map, I realized that we put the cows > in a part of our huge haybarn that's pretty well dead centre in the > middle of our farm! > If Biodynamics is about balance, than I am thinking that the cows and > calves that are here at the moment are certainly doing a balancing act. > Well thats all for now. > > Greetings from Marjan de Jong at On Line Farms -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 09:52:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00477 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:52:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA04442; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:41:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04240 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:40:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GOTF-0005ai-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:42:30 -0800 Message-ID: <36D6B286.3F93D17A@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:41:10 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Gunther Hauk Beekeeping Class (?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 722 NO! Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Anyone have the dates and info on this upcoming (?) class? > > Thanks > > -Allan Balliett > igg@igg.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 10:01:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA00738 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:01:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA05916; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:50:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05654 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:49:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.19] (pm3shep3-163-144.intrepid.net [209.190.163.144]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09739 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:51:04 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D6B286.3F93D17A@direct.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:52:36 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Gunther Hauk Beekeeping Class (?) Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 723 This is strange, did this class already happen? -Allan >NO! Regards Ferdinand > >Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >> Anyone have the dates and info on this upcoming (?) class? >> >> Thanks >> >> -Allan Balliett >> igg@igg.com > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 10:29:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA01285 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:29:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10402; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:20:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10000 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:18:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0101.direct.ca ([204.244.83.1] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GP3d-00060k-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:20:06 -0800 Message-ID: <36D6BB59.5934AD98@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:18:50 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: an apprentice view and WWOOFers References: <004801be5f91$eb6df0a0$adf2facf@HPAuthorizedCustomer> <36D54FF7.4833@bouldernews.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 724 WWOOFers The clue is this, Allan (so I was told by WWOOFer Canada): We are living 'fairly' close to Vancouver where large numbers of WWOOFers do land or from where they leave. And since we are living in an attractive area on top of it, our phone is ringing fairly often. Last year, no kidding, we had 'a waiting list' of 50!! I told 'the agent' to not call us again as we are not 'a holiday camp' nor a million acre hacienda. But, inspite of this, the phone kept ringing....! So, it is more the location, Allan, than my face or BD or what. In the end, I hope, it is my face, too - haha! Regards Ferdinand PS Someone on the list told me that we (in Canada) may be lucky. Immigration US would raid the farm within days and........... WWOOFers must be US Citizens. Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >I just love this list. What a wonderful discussion. I am learning! Ferdinand > > Dear Ferdinand - > > Sounds like you have had great success attracting WWOOFers. How about > posting the listing your farm's been running in their annual publication so > the rest of us can have a clue! > > Thanks > > -Allan > igg@igg.com > > =========================================================================== > > BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, > dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food > that promotes human development. > > To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > > listproc@envirolink.org > > In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > > subscribe bdnow > > If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > > a message to listproc@envirolink.org > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 10:45:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA01736 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:45:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA12859; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:35:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12474 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:33:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem118.digisys.net [205.138.110.167]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA18777 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:35:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D6BF74.B18F1B5C@digisys.net> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:36:20 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: an apprentice view References: <004801be5f91$eb6df0a0$adf2facf@HPAuthorizedCustomer> <36D54FF7.4833@bouldernews.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 725 Parker, Would you please contact me privately regarding Farm Management. Pat Hironimus http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 10:50:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA01873 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:50:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA13856; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:41:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13359 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:38:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.137.155] (max13-29.stc.net [208.210.137.29]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28792 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:40:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990226040523.11516.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:17:22 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Study - shall we continue... Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 726 >>From: "Michael Smith" > >>For example; I have recently seen one author point to the basic >elements >>of the universe as: Earth, Air, Fire, Water And Ethers. >> >>Ethers as a Basic element? While it is possible to see how ethers may >>act on and with any of the other elements, I had never considered the >>context of ethers before reading and learning the Ag Lectures. Could >>you enlighten me as to how I may learn more about this thing called >>ether? >> >>Sincerely, >>Michael. >> >> >Allow me to interject here, if you will. The concept of these 5 elements >is quite esoteric and ancient. They also have been described as earth, >air, fire, water, and 'spirit'. Ether refers to what is 'etherical' >rather than the gas by the same name. You could describe it as an >energy, the stuff that pure life is powered by. If you want to learn >more about it, the quest can take you on a lifetime of metaphysical >studies. Knowing that one person's magic is the next person's >technology, I took up this quest 25 years ago. I'm still figuring it >out. >Lynnaea Dear Lynnaea, Perhaps I can add something to this topic. In (some parts of) India it is customary to relate the elements to the fingers on the hand. Each of the four actual fingers represents one of the four elements--fire (middle finger), earth (little finger), air (index finger) and water (ring finger). The thumb, however, represents the ether "finger" since it makes all the other fingers work. >From this it may be seen that the ether is not like the other elements, but in conjunction with the elements ether is the enlivener and facilitator of activity. Also implicit is the fact that ether doesn't work by itself but in conjunction with the elements it works wonders. Each element is permeated by its ether. The fire element is permeated by warmth. Or you might say it IS warmth since this is the crossover from substance into ether. You know, force is liberated matter, matter is force in bondage. As for air, this is permeated by the light ether, water by the tone ether, earth by the life ether. So in reality there are four ethers just as there are four elements, and these only have significance insofar as they permeate substance. Substance and spirit always go together like hand in glove. Here's a bit more guidance before you proceed to making all kinds of wonderful observations about the world and universe. Fire/warmth and air/light work upward as they have a sort of lift or levity about them. Water/tone and earth/life work downward as they have a sort of drag or gravity about them. Nonetheless there's considerable interaction between these two polarities. Particularly important in these interactions are light and tone. You might consider why our eyes and ears are so important to us, and why we are generally less aware or perceptive of warmth and life in things other than ourselves. Consider how the bee, which works with the most refined essences at the culmination of the growing processes, is a creature of fire and air; and the earthworm, which works with the transformation of dead forms into nourishment for genesis of new life, is a creature of water and earth. The cow stands in the middle of this at the interface between the two polarities of the ethers and elements, eating the growing leaves and producing milk--really interacting with the light and tone, air and water. Watch clouds build up light into heavy thunderheads until rain occurs. This is transition from light into tone (lightning, then thunder). Go out at dawn and sit on the seashore. Listen to the waves crash against the shore and watch the vapors rise, glistening into the air. This is transition from tone into light. Consider how we wake up at dawn (some of us do) and are inspired to take deep breaths, drawing in what is called prana through the eyes and lungs. On this same meridian from eyes to lungs is the heart, liver, kidneys and bladder. At the end of this meridian what comes out is water and tone. There's a lot more. As Steiner puts it in lecture two of the agriculture course, "A lively interchange is constantly taking place between what is above ground and what is below ground. (p. 29, 1993 edition) I'll let you think about it. Best, Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 10:56:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02002 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:56:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14837; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:47:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd124.hotmail.com [207.82.252.188]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14775 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:47:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 12535 invoked by uid 0); 26 Feb 1999 15:48:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990226154829.12534.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:48:28 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Study - shall we continue... Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:48:28 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 727 Yes, Lynnaea, >For example; I have recently seen one author point to the basic >elements of the universe as: Earth, Air, Fire, Water And Ethers.> >Ethers as a Basic element? While it is possible to see how ethers >may act on and with any of the other elements, I had never >considered the context of ethers before reading and learning the Ag >Lectures. Could you enlighten me as to how I may learn more about this thing called ether? >Sincerely,>Michael.>> Thanks. I feel that this "ether" was a common topic towards the last half of the last century. Do you have any idea if topics pertaining to it were suppressed and forced into obscurity? Or did it simply fall into dis-use? Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 11:12:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02436 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:12:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17932; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:02:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17424 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:59:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from laquerencia@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D4D57UCT; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:00:46 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:01:13 -0600 Subject: Re: BDnow Message-ID: <19990226.100119.20334.0.LaQuerencia@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-16 From: Deborah M Byron Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 728 Ah, yes...but then it wouldn't be public, would it? Long live the loosely woven! Deborah On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:17:15 -0500 Intergalactic Garage writes: >>Please UNSUBSCRIBE BDNOW. > > >Don't forget, folks, you can make your exit from BD Now! even more >abrupt >and skillfull if you follow the directions below. (The above is sort >of >like stumbling on the curtain as you exit stage left.) > >-Allan Balliett ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 11:23:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02683 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:23:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA19617; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:14:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19536 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:13:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.19] (pm3shep3-163-147.intrepid.net [209.190.163.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA27130 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:15:53 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D6BB59.5934AD98@direct.ca> References: <004801be5f91$eb6df0a0$adf2facf@HPAuthorizedCustomer> <36D54FF7.4833@bouldernews.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:16:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: an apprentice view and WWOOFers Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 729 >WWOOFers >The clue is this, Allan (so I was told by WWOOFer Canada): We are living >'fairly' >close to Vancouver where large numbers of WWOOFers do land or from where they >leave. And since we are living in an attractive area on top of it, our >phone is >ringing fairly often. Last year, no kidding, we had 'a waiting list' of 50!! I >told 'the agent' to not call us again as we are not 'a holiday camp' nor a >million acre hacienda. But, inspite of this, the phone kept ringing....! > >So, it is more the location, Allan, than my face or BD or what. In the end, I >hope, it is my face, too - haha! Regards Ferdinand > >PS Someone on the list told me that we (in Canada) may be lucky. >Immigration US >would raid the farm within days and........... WWOOFers must be US Citizens. Not true: they can screw around all they want for up to 90 days and then we send them to Canada to apply for a new visa. (If anyone knows I'm wrong about this, PLEASE speak up!) -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 11:48:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA03241 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:48:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA23092; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:38:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from acc.haverford.edu (acc.haverford.edu [165.82.1.30]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA22744 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:36:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [165.82.19.116] (s116.magill.haverford.edu [165.82.19.116]) by acc.haverford.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA28413 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:37:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:41:13 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Bruce Bumbarger Subject: Re: Gunther Hauk beekeeping class; Working with the Stars Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 730 Gunther and Ron Breeland are scheduled to give the workshop on the weekend of April 29 - May 1. Cost is $195; the number of participants is limited, so Gunther suggests registering early. Call 914-352-5020, ext. 20 or write to Gunther at 260 Hungry Hollow Rd., Chestnut Ridge, NY 10977 for complete information. The March/April issue of BIODYNAMICS (sent out today) contains an article on Gunther's work written by Susan Smith. In answer to the query about Maria Thun's book, the BDA just received a small shipment. Call 888-516-7797 to order; $12.95 plus shipping, ten percent discount for members. Bruce From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 15:17:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08180 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:17:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07041; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:06:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd14.hotmail.com [207.82.252.78]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA19443 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:57:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 16185 invoked by uid 0); 26 Feb 1999 18:58:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19990226185838.16184.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.96.41.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:58:38 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.96.41.2] From: "lloyd kinder" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Living Energies -- What about energized water? ETC Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:58:38 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 731 Hi. I've heard about using energized water and vitalized water for agriculture. Does anyone know how these are produced? Is it by the same kind of stirring and counterstirring done with bd preps? I have some ad literature that mentions THE WATER REVITALIZATION SYSTEM used in Europe to make their dead, polluted rivers come back to new life. It says the water swirls thru a double helix, causing implosions, like in a thunderstorm, which charge the water with bio-energy or prana. The water is said to taste and smell better and is detoxified. I'd love to know more about that if anyone has heard of it. While I'm at it, I'd like to know a few more things: like the 3 fresh fruit juices that are said to keep teeth clean and white when used in brushing; the unripe berry whose acid can stop aging of cells in the body [according to a Russian report -- the berry can grow in the U.S.]; a cheap natural substance that can neutralize mercury and other toxic chemicals by binding with them. I'd be very grateful for any leads anyone can provide about these items. Aloha, Lloyd >Woody posted: > >> Coates seems to have made a lifework of explicating Schauberger. Two >>followup books are now in print, "The Water Wizard" and "Nature as >>Teacher", edited by Coates and both mostly in Schauberger's words. A >>third book in this "Ecotechnology" series is due out this year. >> >>If you like Theodore Schwenk or Olaf Alexandresson's "Living Water," [also >>about Schauberger], you'll LOVE Coates. >> > > >As I understand it, Hugh Lovel lectured at a conference recently with Mr. >Coates. Maybe he has some of his usual deft observations about the man and >his work. HUGH?? > >-Allan Balliett >moderator, BD NOW! >igg@igg.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 15:17:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08188 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:17:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07178; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:07:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA21018 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:03:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:03:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902261903.OAA21018@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 7108 invoked from network); 26 Feb 1999 19:05:49 -0000 Received: from i48-08-05.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO DAVE) (216.26.3.197) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 1999 19:05:49 -0000 X-Sender: drobison@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Dave Robison Subject: Re: Nutritional quality of biodynamic food Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 732 At 12:08 AM 2/25/99 -0600, Steve wrote: >Allan asks is there is "some concise way of explaining to >superficially interested materialists why we do what we do" >with regards to the nutritional superiority of biodynamically- >grown foods. > >But the one thing that does come to mind as a nice comparison >is the paper chromatogram method, also known as circular >chromatography. > >If you had two chromas, one developed from extracts of food >raised by conventional methods and the second derived from >biodynamic food, that would make a nice comparison that can >easily be seen. But as we know from the chroma experience >in compost analysis, you really also need a library of chromas >to show the whole range of chromas that illustrate classic >images from poor to good. Ive done a number of these chromas, the problem is I dont knwo what Ive got when its done. There are some "vital force" differences between processed vs. organic foods, as you would expect. But how do you iterpret the chromas and decide what is enough of a difference to be significant? And many of the chromas, such as differently prepared composts or preps, didnt look different. Also note that there have been a number of quantitative studies published in BD magazine. Eg) Walter Goldstein published results of BD on the storage qualities of root crops. The result was a statistically significant extension of storage life for BD crops. Allan, at the risk of opening up a sore point (your overloaded work schedule), I do have an out-of-print poster of various chromas done under Pfieffer's direction. If I scan it in, do you want to post the pictures? ================ Dave Robison Stellar Processes From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 15:18:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08197 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:18:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07441; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:08:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21668 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:06:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.161.159]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990226190820.EZQW682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:08:20 +1300 Message-ID: <36D6F16C.1B4A@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:09:32 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: STUDY:L3:2 the role of the Astrality Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 733 This section provides so many questions which I will allow to settle and filter for a few more days. The strong impression I am left with though is the remarkable and important role of nitrogen and the Astrality in the growth of plants. This leads me to reflect on previous discussions we have had regarding plant growth from lecture 2 and the ethers in general, as well as the emphasis on the ethers being the central spiritual influence on growth made in many BD books, with very little mention of the role of the Astrality. This lecture points clearly to the role of all four bodies as major influences in BD plant growth and that minialising the influence of the Astrality is indeed incorrect. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 15:18:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08206 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:18:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07536; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:08:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21752 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:06:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.161.159]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990226190840.EZRT682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:08:40 +1300 Message-ID: <36D6F180.3EF8@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:09:52 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: NZ becomes a police state Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 734 he died in Federal > Prison with many of his published works and experimental devices destroyed > by court order, a classic case of book burning and scientific suppression > in 20th century America. > Hugh words make me reflect on very recent times in NZ. Recently a three year old child has been made a ward of the state because his parents decided not to continue with his chemo theraphy in favour of an alternative method of treatment. The parents have gone into hiding with Liam and sort a vibrational therapy which has reduced his tumor dramatically. They are now fugitives with pictures on TV etc. They have essentially knidnapped there own child. Yesterday the family court ruled the media can not report any aspect of this case or the treatment or the results or the people providing it. In sort if they are caught Liam can be detained and treated without any public knowledge, NZ know has censorship of the media. ( Luckily the media is calling their bluff and filed a court case in return ) This action is taken upon a law passed in urgency over Xmas which allows the court to impound a child, arrest the parents and immunise the child if they are not immunised 'volanteerily'. This is also and image of the manner this government is pushing GE into our culture. Real scary. An aside. At a environmental business network lunch this week the speaker from the Grocery manufacturers assoc told us GE was our saviour and a must, while the NZ gov. trade official who talked after her waffed lyrical about organics being the way of the future. Someone has the wrong end of the stick and I wonder who. Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 15:18:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08215 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:18:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07330; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:07:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA21031 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:03:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:03:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902261903.OAA21031@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 7112 invoked from network); 26 Feb 1999 19:05:50 -0000 Received: from i48-08-05.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO DAVE) (216.26.3.197) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 1999 19:05:50 -0000 X-Sender: drobison@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Dave Robison Subject: OFF: GE Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 735 =======================Electronic Edition======================== . . . RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #639 . . ---February 25, 1999--- . . HEADLINES: . . GENETICALLY ALTERING THE WORLD'S FOOD . . ========== . . Environmental Research Foundation . . P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403 . . Fax (410) 263-8944; E-mail: erf@rachel.org . . ========== . . All back issues are available by E-mail: send E-mail to . . info@rachel.org with the single word HELP in the message. . . Back issues are also available from http://www.rachel.org. . . To start your own free subscription, send E-mail to . . listserv@rachel.org with the words . . SUBSCRIBE RACHEL-WEEKLY YOUR NAME in the message. . ================================================================= GENETICALLY ALTERING THE WORLD'S FOOD On January 14, after an 8-year scientific review, Canada rejected Monsanto corporation's request for approval of its genetically altered milk hormone, rBGH, a drug that makes dairy cows produce 10% more milk than normal.[1] This was a serious setback for Monsanto because rBGH was the company's first genetically-engineered product and Monsanto had hoped international acceptance of rBGH would smoothe the way for its other genetically-engineered farm crops like cotton, tomatoes, potatoes, rice, corn, and soybeans. The approval process for rBGH in Canada became an embarrasing political fiasco when Canadian health officials claimed Monsanto had tried to bribe them, which the company denied, and government scientists testified that they were being pressured by higher-ups to approve rBGH against their better scientific judgment. (See REHW #621.) Ultimately, Canada gave a thumbs down to rBGH because, as the product label acknowledges, it can cause udder infections, painful, debilitating foot disorders, and reduced life span in treated cows. U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved the use of rBGH in U.S. dairy cows in November, 1993, without taking a position on the issue of cruelty to animals. Monsanto will not reveal how widely the drug has been adopted by U.S. dairy farmers. Monsanto says it will appeal the rBGH decision within the Canadian government. But more importantly, Monsanto will ask the World Health Organization's Codex Alimentarius to declare rBGH safe when Codex meets in Rome this coming summer. If Codex issues the statement that Monsanto wants, under the World Trade Organization's rules, Canada will lose its right to ban the use of rBGH within its borders, and Monsanto will be one step closer to its goal.[1] At bottom, this is what "free trade" is about -- freeing transnational corporations from control by nation states. Codex Alimentarius is widely perceived to be dominated not by public-spirited health specialists but by scientists aligned with the interests of transnational corporations. Despite the recent setback for rBGH in Canada, Monsanto is pressing ahead with its plan to dominate world agriculture by selling genetically modified seeds -- a plan it is pursuing with powerful aid from the highest levels of the U.S. government. Both inside and outside the U.S., Monsanto is selling two basic varieties of genetically-modified seeds: "Roundup Ready" seeds that have been genetically modified to withstand a heavy soaking with Monsanto's best-selling herbicide, Roundup (glyphosate). And a group of seeds implanted with a Bt gene, which produces a pesticidal toxin in every cell of the resulting plant. Caterpillars that eat any part of such a plant will die, at least until the whole caterpillar population develops "resistance" to the Bt toxin. (For more detail, see REHW #637 and #638.) Within the U.S., genetically altered crops are rapidly coming into widespread use. In 1995, no genetically-modified crops were grown for commercial sale. Three years later, in 1998, 73 million acres of genetically-modified crops were grown worldwide, more than 50 million acres of them in the U.S. To allow this rapid change to occur with a minimum of resistance from consumers, the FDA has declared that genetically modified foods do not need to be labeled, thus depriving consumers of the opportunity to make an informed choice in the grocery store. You cannot refuse to buy what you cannot identify. It is presently estimated that some 30,000 items in U.S. grocery stores already contain genetically modified organisms.[2] Monsanto has announced that by the year 2000 (next year), 100% of U.S. soybeans (60 million acres) will be genetically modified. Actually, 100% really means something like 99.9%. Even if Monsanto reaches it's "100%" goal, there will continue to be a small acreage devoted to organically-grown, traditional soybeans. However, if Monsanto has its way, even these organically-grown non-genetically-modified soybeans will become difficult to identify. Last year when the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) proposed national standards to define what "organically grown" means, Monsanto and USDA proposed to allow genetically-modified crops to be labeled "organic." (See REHW #583.) After USDA received 300,000 letters of opposition from an angry public, USDA and Monsanto both withdrew the proposal. But three years from now, Monsanto will be back, urging the government to allow the "organic" label on genetically modified crops. If USDA goes along with Monsanto's plan, then the "organic" label will become meaningless and consumers will have to trust their grocers to supply soybeans that have not been genetically modified. But few grocers will have any way to know. According to a series of reports by Bill Lambrecht in the ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH, Monsanto's overarching plan is to gain approval for genetically modified crops in Europe, then use the European imprimatur to sell its technology to Europe's former colonies in Africa, Asia and Latin America. It won't be easy. In Ireland, Great Britain, France and India, farmer-led uprisings have burned and destroyed Monsanto's test plots. In India, Monsanto is growing genetically modified plants in green houses constructed of bullet-proof plastic. Monsanto insists its goal is "doing well by doing good" but farmers outside the U.S. are deeply suspicious. Of particular concern is Monsanto's latest genetic technique called the Technology Protection System, commonly known as "terminator technology." Developed with taxpayer money by the U.S. Department of Agriculture but patented by a Mississippi-based seed company that Monsanto has recently purchased, terminator technology is a genetic technique that renders the seeds of crops sterile after one or two years. This assures that Monsanto's seeds cannot be illegally saved and re-planted year after year. With terminator technology, anyone who becomes dependent upon Monsanto's genetically-modified seed will have to come back to Monsanto year after year to purchase new seed. By this means, Monsanto will gain a substantial measure of control over the food supply of any nation that widely adopts the company's genetic technologies. It is not a conspiracy, merely a shrewd business venture, but it is clear that Monsanto's goal is effective control of many of the staple crops that presently feed the world. >From its own perspective, the U.S. government evidently believes Monsanto's goal is worth supporting. According to Bill Lambrecht of the ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH, when Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern arrived in the U.S. in 1998 for a St. Patrick's Day visit, he was met by Sandy Berger, the director of the U.S. National Security Council. The topic of conversation at lunch was not peace in war-torn Ireland, but Ireland's pivotal vote in a pending European Community decision on Monsanto's genetically modified corn.[3] Lambrecht reports that when Monsanto flew a group of Irish journalists to the U.S. to help them prepare for the debate over genetically modified foods, their trip included a stop in the Oval Office at the White House -- an inner sanctum that few visitors to Washington ever see. When the French were reluctant to allow Monsanto's seeds to sprout on French soil, Secretary of State Madeline Albright and U.S. Trade Representative Charlene Barshevsky intervened on Monsanto's behalf. When the French still refused to yield, President Clinton personally took up the matter with French Prime Minister Lionel Jospin and gave him "an earful," Lambrecht writes. When that didn't work, Vice-President Gore followed up with a phone call to the French Prime Minister. Ultimately, the French gave in to the steady, high-level pressure. "Wherever Monsanto seeks to sow, the U.S. government clears the ground," writes Lambrecht, who calls the U.S. government Monsanto's "most powerful ally." "From the White House and the National Security Council on down," Lambrecht writes, "the apparatus of the U.S. Government worked this year [1998] on behalf of biotechnology. For Monsanto, at this moment, it is like having an Olympic basketball team with several Michael Jordans."[3] We are speculating, but it appears to us that the U.S. government may view genetically modified crops as a powerful new arm of U.S. foreign policy. Nations whose staple foods are grown from seed that they must purchase year after year from a handful of U.S. corporations are nations likely to see the world the way the U.S. wants them to see it. When asked, they are likely to play ball, whether they want to or not. A new world order, indeed. * * * Readers who would like to become active on this issue are urged to read the new publication, MONSANTO MONITOR, which is now being published in the Netherlands. Available via mail or E-mail. E-mail: biotech@aseed.antenna.nl. Or write: P.O. Box 92066, 1090 AB, Amsterdam, The Netherlands. Phone: +31-20-468 2626; fax: +31-20-468 2275. Or: www.antenna.nl/aseed. * * * Other excellent sources for action ideas and information include these: 1) Canada's Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) at www.rafi.org; In North Carolina, phone (919) 542-1396; fax: (919) 542-0069; e-mail: www@rafi.org. In Canada, phone (204) 453-5259; fax: (204) 925-8034; e-mail: rafi@rafi.org. 2) Physicians and Scientists Against Genetically Engineered Food at www.psagef.org/sitemap.htm. 3) The Campaign for Food Safety at www.purefood.org; telephone (218) 226-4164; e-mail alliance@mr.net. 4) Food & Water, 389 Vermont Route 215, Walden, VT 05873; phone: (802) 563-3300; fax: (802) 563-3310. Their FOOD & WATER JOURNAL is must reading. ========== [1] Kelly Morris, "Bovine somatotropin--who's crying over spilt milk?" LANCET Vol. 353 (January 23, 1999), pg. 306. For more detail on this story, see Brewster and Cathleen Kneen, "rbGH--for the last time?" RAM'S HORN No. 166 (February 1999), pg. 1. The RAM'S HORN [ISSN 0827-4053]: S-12, C-11, R.R. #1, Sorrento, B.C. V0E 2W0, Canada, is $20 (U.S.) per year (11 issues). E-mail: ramshorn@jetstream.net; or phone (250) 835-8561. Well worth the price. [2] These big-name products include genetically modified ingredients: Coca-Cola (corn syrup and/or Aspartame), Fritos (corn), Green Giant Harvest Burgers (soy), McDonald's french fries (potatoes), Nestle's chocolate (soy), Karo corn syrup (corn), NutraSweet (Aspartame), Kraft salad dressings (canola oil), Fleishmann's margarine (soy), Similac infant formula (soy), Land o' Lakes butter (rBGH), Cabot Creamery Butter (rBGH). If you want to avoid genetically modified products entirely, stay away from non-organic tomatoes, potatoes, corn, soy, canola and yellow squash. Avoid corn syrup and fructose--which are in almost all beverages and sodas (even health food brands) and in almost all sweet products, yogurt and aspirin. Avoid non-organic corn oil, cornstarch, corn meal, baking soda, baking powder, glycose syrup. Avoid soy; soy flour in baked goods, pizza, cookies, cakes, pasta; fillers in meat products (for example Big Macs), vegetarian meat substitutes (for example tofu, tofu burgers, tofu hot dogs), soy milk, infant formula, babyfoods; diet and protein shakes, protein bars; chocolate and candy bars; margarine; ice cream; pet food; soy oil in salad dressings and snack chips; soy sauce; lecithin and soy lecithin. In all, well over 30,000 products. Aspartame--the artificial sweetener Equal or NutraSweet--contains a genetically engineered enzyme, as do most non-organic cheeses. Amylase (used in making bread, flour, whole wheat flour, cereals, starch), Catalase (used in making soft drinks, egg whites, liquid whey) and Lactase are all genetically altered. Most livestock and commercial seafood are being fed genetically modified feed. Commercial pork has been genetically altered with DNA from human beings. Data from: Phillip Frazer and Annie Berthold-Bond, editors, NEWS ON EARTH, December, 1998, pg. 4. NEWS ON EARTH [ISSN 1099-0054] is a high-quality environmental newsletter published monthly; write them at 175 Fifth Avenue, Ste. 2245, NY, NY 10010; or noe@newslet.com; or phone (212) 741-2365. [3] Bill Lambrecht, "World Recoils at Monsanto's Brave New Crops," ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH December 27, 1998, pg. A1. Descriptor terms: monsanto; biotechnology; food safety; pesticides; food security; U.S. foreign policy; genetic engineering; rbgh; bovine growth hormone; canada; roundup; glyphosate; bt; resistance; organbic standards; usda; fda; bill lambrecht; france; ireland; terminator technology; national security council; ################################################################ NOTICE Environmental Research Foundation provides this electronic version of RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY free of charge even though it costs our organization considerable time and money to produce it. We would like to continue to provide this service free. You could help by making a tax-deductible contribution (anything you can afford, whether $5.00 or $500.00). Please send your tax-deductible contribution to: Environmental Research Foundation, P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403-7036. Please do not send credit card information via E-mail. For further information about making tax-deductible contributions to E.R.F. by credit card please phone us toll free at 1-888-2RACHEL, or at (410) 263-1584, or fax us at (410) 263-8944. --Peter Montague, Editor ################################################################ ================ Dave Robison Stellar Processes From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 15:41:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08722 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:41:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA13570; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:32:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd64.hotmail.com [207.82.252.128]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA13171 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:30:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 27014 invoked by uid 0); 26 Feb 1999 20:32:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990226203224.27013.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:32:24 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY:L3:2 the role of the Astrality Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:32:24 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 736 Glen, You write: ...this brings a question to the surface that I have thought each time I have read this passage concerning nitrogen and astrality. They both seem to be used interchangably. Is it possible that both are the same but in different states?; Astral-gas/Nitrogen-solid? This leads to another; is Carbon a more or less result of the Nitrogen, leading into an even more solidified form that is able to drag the other elements with it into a new structure or form? Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 15:56:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA08974 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:56:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA16949; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:47:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd109.hotmail.com [207.82.252.173]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA16594 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:45:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7748 invoked by uid 0); 26 Feb 1999 20:47:02 -0000 Message-ID: <19990226204702.7747.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:47:01 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Study - shall we continue... Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:47:01 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 737 Thanks for this reply Hugh, This brings to mind something I first read from Helena Blavatski. In some of the original Asian peoples, a common occurence is the anamoly of a sixth finger. At first I was in dis-belief. So I asked my wife, who comes from Asia, is this really true? She confirmed that there are some Chinese clans that have the sixth, located near the thumb and shares the same bone as the thumb. Essentially, this is a dead finger and has no use. Do you have any intro-spection on this sixth-thumb finger? Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 16:39:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA10686 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:39:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27571; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:29:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24500 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:19:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009148D3@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:21:54 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 26 Feb 99 16:21:51 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 26 Feb 99 16:21:49 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:21:44 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Wilhelm Reich Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <10D7A0F57B99@agecon.uga.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <10F4D6185A79@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 738 Hugh, Thanks for such a thorough response! I just checked our library guide and found that we are supposed to have tons of books by and about him, including Fury on Earth, and an autobiography called Passion of Youth. (I notice that most of his books have something to do with "sex" according to the library guide. Hmmm) So I shall check it out. Thanks again. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 16:54:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA10960 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:54:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA01881; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:45:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from send206.yahoomail.com (send206.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA01678 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:44:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990226214737.16742.rocketmail@send206.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.205.40.10] by send206.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:47:37 PST Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:47:37 -0800 (PST) From: bruce ritchie Subject: Re: Year 2007 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: martha wells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 739 Martha, I think you're comment is relevant. I think it is really worth discussing what we do about toxins. What did nature do with them before we arrived? Isn't there really two extreme views? View 1 says that we should always remain pure and free from all toxins, live seperate from them, and generally sequester ourselves to one end of the world, and the toxins to the other. This is often the view of the ORGANIC movement, and I think it often has it's limitations, after all, isn't the world a seamless unity? Sometimes this view seems like an US AGAINST THEM view. View 2 says that there are ways to energize dead materials, and bring life back into them. Bioremediatioon is one method. In general it seems like if we can increase the life force of our planet that nature can help us to become healthier, but in many ways, there is no more places to run to, we've got to face the monster! Isn't that what Jesus meant when he said to not overcome evil(poison) with evil(isolation) but overcome evil(poison) with good(healthy life-force). In the end I think we need a combination of the two approaches. The soil has sequestered toxins for millions of years, by the way. Bruce ritchie ---Martha Wells wrote: > > Bruce, note also that 2007 is the year that Africa has sworn to have > eliminated about 30 major pesticides and other hazardous chemicals from > their warehoused stores. Claimed that these things are being sent to them > from other countries (US, France, etc), and it's up to those countries to > come take them back and dispose of them. > I agree, this is a year of fairly heavy portent! > I went to a seminar last year on The Next 20 Years, and for some reason, > they couldn't look past 2007. What we need to be teaching in schools now is > how the children of tomorrow can disarm the poisons of today because those > chemicals are being stored in multi ton volumes everywhere. Three keynote > speakers on the topic of futuristic computerisms, but when I stood up to > ask about food, populations, disease, etc. All they could determine is it's > going to be as bad as any sci fi book could ever imagine. I think these > 'movers and shakers' lack imagination, and I have to grant this BD NOW > list, plenty of imagination going on here. > > I'm sending this response to yourself as well as the BD NOW group, but for > some reason, my posts aren't reaching that usegroup anymore. If you think > this has merit on the discussion group, please forward your response along > with this message to that list. THANKS! > martha (tx) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 18:08:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA12332 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:08:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06856; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:06:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f89.hotmail.com [209.185.131.152]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA17210 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:46:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10237 invoked by uid 0); 26 Feb 1999 18:41:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19990226184119.10236.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.230.25.27 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:41:17 PST X-Originating-IP: [205.230.25.27] From: "Connie Gilbert" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Who is a Christian, who?] Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:41:17 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 740 >> >> > >> >> > Todd Powell wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > Let's remember to meditate first on the One who created Rudolph >>Steiner: >> >> > > > Thank you Todd. Please remember that there are people from many religions on this list, and not all take the Judeo-Christian bible literally or even use it in their religious practices. From what I have studied of Theosophy, it is a path for those searching for spirituality. I don't think there is a religion that would not applaud this goal. Let's remember what is common among our various paths and not debate the differences. Blessings Connie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 18:25:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA12765 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:25:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07679; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:09:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22007 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:07:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.161.159]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990226190936.EZUO682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:09:36 +1300 Message-ID: <36D6F1B8.14F3@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:10:48 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: STUDY:L3:2 the role of the Astrality Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 741 This section provides so many questions which I will allow to settle and filter for a few more days. The strong impression I am left with though is the remarkable and important role of nitrogen and the Astrality in the growth of plants. This leads me to reflect on previous discussions we have had regarding plant growth from lecture 2 and the ethers in general, as well as the emphasis on the ethers being the central spiritual influence on growth made in many BD books, with very little mention of the role of the Astrality. This lecture points clearly to the role of all four bodies as major influences in BD plant growth and that minialising the influence of the Astrality is indeed incorrect. At some point lectures two and three need to ne harmonised. For the future Cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 18:27:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA12813 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:27:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA20664; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:18:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA20478 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:17:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GWXQ-0006r7-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:19:20 -0800 Message-ID: <36D72BB1.A4344CBD@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:18:09 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Biotech Cheerleading & UNSUBSCRIBE References: <004c01be618e$1d4d2d40$884b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 742 Dear Julie, I took Jan very seriously and tried to answer as best as I could. With regard to my 'Bill Gates Post' one can, of course, be of differing opinion, however, that makes this list so interesting.And if when Andrew (we are good friends) reminds me of certain aspects of this list, I listen to him and I am trying to learn. At times, it is not easy and, as Allan knows, I have lost my hairpiece, too - sorry. Many thanks for your kind help, Julie. I always feel sad if we loose someone - but, what can we do. It is like a restaurant (and there are 1,400 in Vancouver) to everybody's taste - although, imho, GE food is a tasteless joke....! Regards Ferdinand Julie M. wrote: > Hey, isn't this like sticking your tongue out at everyone & then running > off? Posting an eloquent & intellectual, but arguably flawed argument for > biotechnology based on the very marketing mantra Monsanto chants to the > farming community (I hear this crap on my local conventional farm list) "to > feed the burgeoning population" and "farmers need to make a living" then > UNSUBSCRIBING in the next post... > > Thank GOODNESS there are "certain individuals whose mental fabric is woven a > little "loose" (And that means you, I guess, Ferdy). Maybe this > ex-subscribers mental fabric is woven a bit too tightly, and thus the > problem with our current state of affairs... > > Adios Jan...maybe the Monsanto site hosts a BioTechNow! list for you to > participate in... > > Julie M. > > -----Original Message----- > From: jan stettler > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 2:03 AM > Subject: BDnow > > >Please UNSUBSCRIBE BDNOW. > > > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 18:37:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13050 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:37:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA22150; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:27:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21822 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:25:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GWfS-0000Ro-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:27:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36D72DA0.DF6D620E@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:26:24 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Fruit trees & clay; treatment of trees References: <814f5212.36d6a78d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 743 Dear Dan, This tree paste has been applied by myself for (I'd say 30) yes, thirty years. I leared about it in a Swiss BD Course in which my teacher told me that Steiner made reference to it but asked for blood (animal blood) instead of milk. Milk is somewhat easier to 'sell' and find but, in the end, does almost the same job. The milk part was added by my Swiss farming colleagues. A large segement of Swiss farmers are (still now) pretty uneasy when it comes to BD and what is being used although they may slaughter their own pigs and cows and use their intestines for saussages etc. etc. We know that a saussage (if you are not a vegetarian) taste much better if and when made with an animal intestine. Salami, for example, is cured in donkey's intestine. They have tried plastic and paper hulls as well, but they do not work as well (because the fungi does not grow so well inside it). As far as blood is concerned, it is likely the 'better' >I< carrier than milk Having been in BD for about 40+ years I daresay that what I have studied about it and (see below) makes sense. Hope this will help. Regards Ferdinand LMvine@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/25/99 8:42:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, ferdy@direct.ca > writes: > > << Dear Dan, > Can you describe BD Tree paste. I may not know of it. Regards Ferdinand > > LMvine@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/25/99 2:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, > ferdy@direct.ca > > writes: > > > > << Dear Allan, > > > > There are two (or possibly more) possibility of how to apply. > > > > For large orchards, use a sprayer that can pump it in a fine mist right > onto > > the > > tree trunk. I have seen it being applied with high pressure pumps and > since > > the mix > > does not do any damage, it can readily fall onto the grass underneath of > the > > trees > > and may even enhance the growth of grass (if so desired). As I said, the > > application > > can be in 'film' form, the tree should look grayish. It is important to > spray > > this > > mix before the leaves as out as, otherwise, they may get shrivelled due to > > the > > waterglass mix. Waterglass seals pores, too. > > > > Some orchards may want to test how thick a layer they want to apply going > > from very > > thick to thin. Over the years they will surely find what works best for > them. > > > > If you have only a few trees, take a bucked, make the soup and apply it > with > > a brush > > or roller. > > > > Remember, a sunny dry day is A MUST as, otherwise, the rain would wash it > > off. Once > > it has dried it will stay on the trunk and branches until the following > year, > > I find > > - even in our rainy B.C. > > > > Regards Ferdinand > > >> > > Ferdinand, treepaste as described separately by both Pfeiffer and Proctor is > 1/3 sticky clay or bentonite, 1/3 manure and 1/3 silica sand or diatomaceous > earth. > > Please provide more info on your tree spray like where it originated and test > data performance if available. Seems similar to BD tree paste but milk?? Dan -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 18:38:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13063 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:38:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07897; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:09:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd107.hotmail.com [207.82.252.171]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA03995 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:56:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 22433 invoked by uid 0); 26 Feb 1999 19:58:26 -0000 Message-ID: <19990226195826.22432.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:58:26 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Study L3:2 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:58:26 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 744 Dear Glen & Study Members, After looking at the elements of Sulfur, Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen; I had to step back to do a little work in referential data synthesis. When Tesla began distributing articles about radio, didn't he speak of "The Ground" as the most important aspect of radio. During the days when men were first experimenting with telegraph, they used "Earth Batteries". They also found that certain soils conducted better than others and some were simply dead. So I looked up the history of the battery in an old encyclopedia and found that Sulfur/Carbon/Hydrogen/and Oxygen are all major elements within its various combinations with 2 or more metals. Mabey Dr. Steiner is simply documenting the fundamentals of an energetic soil complex. I am not completely sure at this point, with my sloppy form of observation, but I do believe that everywhere that I have found carbon of any worth, I have also found water. I know that in certain areas of earth where abundant coal reserves are found as well as other forms of soft coal, you also find extremely pure forms of water that has almost a silvery lusture. It is my belief that sometimes during rock metamorphesis, when rock is formed into more hydrophilic forms of minerals that water is released from the crystals when the new minerals are formed. This may become available to organic matter deposited shallowly below the earths surface where it may find also sulfur and oxygen. With all this said, does anyone on the list know what to make of the galena crystal? I have heard it called galena, it was from the early days of radio, but I have also heard it called carbon. Is it possible that this is a metamophises of carbon with silica to form carbon-crystals? It is sometimes used in place of quartz crystals in simple radios Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 18:43:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13130 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:43:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA23123; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:33:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22859 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:31:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GWlN-0005CU-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:33:45 -0800 Message-ID: <36D72F11.9B353D44@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:32:33 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bioengineering: "Smoke good" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 745 Many thank Us, Allan. It makes me feel a bit better. Regards Ferdinand PS And I am looking forward to read Dr.Kapuler. Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Tony Stettler Wrote: > > > With a world population rapidly approaching six billion (this > >translates > >to a net gain every three days capable of populating a city the size of San > >Francisco), fertile soil is being gobbled up wildly, while crop yields > >remain fairly static. This is where my reference to Dr. Alan Kapuler comes > >in. > > Dr. Kapuler, an intellectual descendent of Luther Burbank, has > >developed a > >number of useful food plant varieties. He is a first rate visionary with a > >deep and abiding respect for the evolution of people/plants and a zeal for > >protecting the raw genetic material of all planet life. He's probably > >disappointed by Bt-potatoes, since in his vision, trans-genetic > >manipulation is the planet's only hope of adequately feeding its minions. > > His studies have shown that not all varieties are created equal in > >terms > >of their respective amino acid profile. All animal life requires protein > >synthesis from twenty plus amino acids. One tomato variety may have > >significantly more of these amino acids. Why not, he suggests, use genetic > >engineering to complete the amino acid profile thereby making some native > >stock more nutritious? Why not alter oceanic plants to produce cultivated > >food products? The applications are endless and beneficial. > > If his vision has substance, scientists can't be trusted to > >separate the > >good from the chaff, even though they pretend to be ethically neutral. > >There is an inevitability here that requires us to be fully conscious and > >therefore critical consumers of scientific data. > > Full fledge materialism is a deadly sin, as Steiner pointed out. > >Farmers > >must make a living, however. If farmers are able to do that and serve the > >greatest good for the greatest number by accessing new technology, where's > >the harm? > > "Where's the harm?" > > A great shark attack my Mr. Stettler, an old friend of mine, whom I met, > btw, when he came up behind me way back then before the Beatles while I was > waiting for the Jr High School metal shop's doors to reopen after lunch and > used me as a unwitting dummy to demonstrate to two linebackers the wonders > of leverage and kung fu. Without warning, he threw me across his back and > onto a linoleum covered concrete floor. Of course, this only brought him to > my attention and the story goes on from there... > > Now the man posts under his wife's name, questions the intellectual > strength of some of BD Now members, concurs with Andrew Lorand, and appears > to support the concept of genetic engineering within the framework of > feeding the oilfire of overpopulation...and then logs off from BD Now! > "shibboleth" indeed! > > It's left for me to clarify Dr Kapuler's position on GE, which I'm hardly > the man to do. Suffice it to say, Al Kapuler is one of the brightest > scientists this country has produced since world war II. (This isn't > romaticism, before he broke with the establishment, he had earned the > citations to substantiate my statement.) He is certainly one of the few who > has put his genius into service of the biosphere instead on into his own > private interests. As a scientist, however, he is open to the idea that > part of the sacredness of nature is that God gave it to man's mind to > examine every facet of it's wonders. Where I see DNA as something sacred > that should not defiled in a mechanical way, I'm sure Al Kapuler sees it as > another potential for modifying our environment. Unlike the GE scientist, > however, Dr Kapuler has a deep respect for the wisdom of nature. He > actually has a quote from a prominent GE scientist "99% of DNA is JUNK." > This lack of respect for the wisdom of Nature is what will undo all of us > if allowed to procede; this lack of understanding of the redundant systems > that life contains, this failure to realize that 'natural mutations' are > actually 'expressions,' or options already contained within the forms. > (Part of what Wm McDonough has referred to as 'Survival of the > FITTINGness.") If nothing else, I know that Dr Kapuler is aware that 'when > tinkering, never lose any of the pieces.' > > I've contacted Dr Kapuler and offered him a chance to enter into dialogue > with this list. He is in Central America right now, undoubtedly working > with Gabriele Howarth on boosting the diversity in the Peace Seeds > inventory. His wife Linda has told me that she imagines that Al will be > happy to talk to us when he gets back. I think it is important that he has > a opportunity to clarify his position, and, as usual when Dr. Kapuler is > around, I imagine that many of us will find his insights to be very thought > provoking. > > I'd like to make it clear: I don't support x-species GE regardless of what > the immediate benefits of it may be (like one ton squashes that remediate > urban sludge but are still highly nutritious (and benign!) for humans). I > do think we need to honor the Sacred and intuitively I find the DNA code > and natural gene pools to be Sacred. In addition, of course, I've seen so > much damage done by USDA scientists that even if I were an atheist I would > have to protest their tampering with the stuff of Life. > > I should also emphasize that we are talking about Dr Kapuler's intellectual > musings here and there is absolutely no reason to believe that he has > changed his position on providing pure heirloom open-pollinated seed > through his seed company. > > Just my thoughts, > > -Allan Balliett > igg@igg.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 18:45:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13146 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:45:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06399; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:05:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10130 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:12:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem118.digisys.net [205.138.110.167]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13192 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:14:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D6E4C8.F43AE541@digisys.net> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:15:37 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: [Fwd: You Asked For It: Seeking self-sufficient, sustainable farm] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------337F8F3F393414E46002AAAC" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 746 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------337F8F3F393414E46002AAAC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BDers, Anyone interested in this? Pat http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com --------------337F8F3F393414E46002AAAC Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from 1ststar.1ststar.com (IDENT:mail@1ststar.com [209.150.128.54] (may be forged)) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09245 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:27:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by 1ststar.1ststar.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26949 for whiteowl@digisys.net; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:27:57 -0600 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by 1ststar.1ststar.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26934 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:27:56 -0600 Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA23681 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:20:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA23661 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:20:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <169J04KF>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:22:11 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: You Asked For It: Seeking self-sufficient, sustainable farm Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:22:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Sanet: I have been contacted by the the Radio show: You Asked For It. They are looking for an example of a self-sufficient, sustainable farm to highlight. The concept they are looking for is a farm where everything is recycled back to the farm, presumably with minimal off-farm inputs. If you know of good examples, please send me contact information! Andy Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------337F8F3F393414E46002AAAC-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 18:57:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13300 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:57:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA25619; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:48:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25129 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:45:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GWyu-0000eh-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:47:44 -0800 Message-ID: <36D73259.5C3940CF@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:46:33 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Gunther Hauk Beekeeping Class (?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 747 Allan, I did not say that this class did NOT happen. I did not even know that it existed. Hope that clarifies my reply. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > This is strange, did this class already happen? -Allan > > >NO! Regards Ferdinand > > > >Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > >> Anyone have the dates and info on this upcoming (?) class? > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> -Allan Balliett > >> igg@igg.com > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 19:11:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA13534 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:11:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA27649; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:00:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA27457 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:59:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GXBt-0001P2-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:01:10 -0800 Message-ID: <36D7357E.3417EA57@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:59:59 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: an apprentice view and WWOOFers References: <004801be5f91$eb6df0a0$adf2facf@HPAuthorizedCustomer> <36D54FF7.4833@bouldernews.infi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 748 Well, Allan, I thought they can hack and shovel all around.......? Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >WWOOFers > >The clue is this, Allan (so I was told by WWOOFer Canada): We are living > >'fairly' > >close to Vancouver where large numbers of WWOOFers do land or from where they > >leave. And since we are living in an attractive area on top of it, our > >phone is > >ringing fairly often. Last year, no kidding, we had 'a waiting list' of 50!! I > >told 'the agent' to not call us again as we are not 'a holiday camp' nor a > >million acre hacienda. But, inspite of this, the phone kept ringing....! > > > >So, it is more the location, Allan, than my face or BD or what. In the end, I > >hope, it is my face, too - haha! Regards Ferdinand > > > >PS Someone on the list told me that we (in Canada) may be lucky. > >Immigration US > >would raid the farm within days and........... WWOOFers must be US Citizens. > > Not true: they can screw around all they want for up to 90 days and then we > send them to Canada to apply for a new visa. (If anyone knows I'm wrong > about this, PLEASE speak up!) -Allan -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 19:24:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA13684 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:24:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA00259; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:15:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA29647 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:12:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0112.direct.ca ([204.244.83.12] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GXON-0000RA-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:14:03 -0800 Message-ID: <36D73880.F200848F@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:12:48 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: SCANNING OF PICTURES ETC. AND PIGEONHOLING THEM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 749 Dear List, dear Allan, Isn't there a way that we could 'deposit' pictures and drawings at a certain server (like a message board) and give it a code say: BD00001, next BD00002 etc. so that participants could go there to see these pictures and download them (if they want) or look at them? Has such an invention been made? I feel at times 'stressed' to put everything into words, whereas one picture is ten hours on the keyboard. My Webside is in preparation but what pain in the a........ (at least for me) and Pam is helping me. Regards FErdinand -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 20:20:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA14472 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:20:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA10759; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:08:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10275 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:05:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0208.direct.ca ([204.244.83.24] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GYE0-000537-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:07:25 -0800 Message-ID: <36D74506.8A29842E@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:06:14 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Leech Field In the Pasture References: <3.0.5.32.19990224103219.007eeec0@midcoast.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 750 Dear John, Steiner strongly advises against the use of human feces in any form whatsoever. Potentized inside a cow (when taken up by grass) will make the extrement a thousand times more toxic. My teacher Dr. Herbert Koepf was adamant that one should not use sceptic tank affluent for exactly the reason you describe. So, fence the area and leave the grass as green as it may want to be. It is, unfortunately, a 'false' green (although the cows may eat it, and other animals, too). Now, generally speaking, a sceptic field does not reach 35 acres out there into nature. No way. You probably may loose 100' feet. Water tends to seep downward, however, If you have very clayish soil, then the water may leave the sceptic field towards the field. Take the grass as a parameter. Where it stops showing its dense greenness, it is probably the end of the sceptic field. Keep apples from being consumed by human beings, too. Best, apply Pfeiffer Field Spray and, close to the tank, insert the Preparations into the soil (as if it was a compost - which it is!). Hope this will help. And now I have to hurry. Feeding time is upon me. Regards Ferdinand John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett wrote: > Dear friends > > We are in the process of working on an animal management plan for our farm. > We have about 35 acres of open land. There is a beautiful apple tree > lined 2.5 acre pasture adjoining the barn which has an underground septic > tank and leech field in the middle of it. > > We are wondering whether the use of this pasture by cows, sheep, or > chickens would be a hazard to their health and to human health. The grass > is especially lush over this area. We are concerned about cleaning > products, pesticides, and mercury which might be present. We are heavily > involved in the study of mercury toxicity as related to silver amalgam > dental fillings. Mercury from dental fillings constantly leaves the silver > amalgam in the form of mercury vapor which is subsequently en hailed. This > mercury is spread via the blood to all organ systems. The body excretes > mercury primarily through the urine and feces. Leading edge scientific > research is revealing that this small amount of mercury exposure poses a > significant health risk. This is why many European countries are in the > process of banning the use of silver dental filling. We are concerned > about feeding our livestock with contaminated grass. > > Does anyone know whether grass over the septic tank and leech field will > absorb cleaning chemicals, pesticides, or mercury from the under ground > effluent? Would you recommend pumping the tank? Would you recommend > planting cover crops of some type to clean up the soil? Would you plant > flowers over the area and use other land for pasture? > > Thanks > John > > St. George Farm > Freedom, Maine, USA -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 21:23:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA15303 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:23:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA22162; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:14:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21753 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:11:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from laquerencia@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D4E89ZHG; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:13:37 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:14:18 -0600 Subject: Cows to Canada Campaign Message-ID: <19990226.201419.17734.0.LaQuerencia@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-5,10-11,16-17,24-25,27-35 From: Deborah M Byron Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 751 Dear BDers, This special bull-etin comes to us via "The Ram's Horn" (No. 166, Feb. 1999) written by Freida Morris (reproduction is authorized if the source is indicated): Responding to news that Canadian officials had refused approval of genetically engineered bovine growth hormone today, the Mothers Against Drugged Dairyfood (MADD), a consumers group in Seattle, Washington, have announced a nation-wide FUSC (Free US Cows) campaign. The group promises to aid cows seeking refuge from rBGH escape to Canada. According to MADD spokesperson Auntie Moo, " If the people of Canada can resist the seductions of Monsanto, then we can and must do the decent thing and get our cows out of harm's way. The Mothers Against Drugged Dairyfood can at least lift the shackles of genetically engineered oppression from the backsides of U.S. cows." Moo claims that MADD has arranged safe barns for travelling cows all across the U.S., from Vermont to Washington. "There are good people in this country and they have helped us create a bovine underground railroad. We will get every cow we can to Canada and Freedom," she said. Moo expects thousands of cows to seek refuge in Canada in the coming weeks. She asked that peoiple living near the U.S.-Canadian border leave out hay and water for escaping cows. FROM: "The Ram's Horn: A monthly newsletter for food system analysis"--published by Brewster and Cathleen Kneen S-12, C-11, R.R. #1 Sorrento, B.C. VOE 2WO email: ramshorn@jetstream.net Let's help MOOve 'em out, Deborah LaQuerencia@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 22:20:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15948 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:20:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA00447; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:10:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00219 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:09:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.211.141.195] (wt-d6-195.wt.net [208.211.141.195]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21043 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:36:33 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:36:33 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: lamu@pop3.wt.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D6F180.3EF8@xtra.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Andy Richker Subject: Re: OFF: NZ becomes a police state Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 752 >he died in Federal >> Prison with many of his published works and experimental devices destroyed >> by court order, a classic case of book burning and scientific suppression >> in 20th century America. >> > >Hugh words make me reflect on very recent times in NZ. >Recently a three year old child has been made a ward of the state >because his parents decided not to continue with his chemo theraphy in >favour of an alternative method of treatment. Wow, That is surprising because my Kiwi friend told me how hard it was to go to jail in NZ compared to the US. That sounds too unbelievable. Thank god for civilization and freedom of choice, ha!! I am being sarcastic here. I am surprised you have a stronger Medical Nazi System than in the US. Andy From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 22:43:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA16251 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:43:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA03403; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:31:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03048 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:28:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.36]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:31:09 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:30:59 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: The Progressive Response: Biosafety, Intellectual Property Rights, Military Budget Increase (Long) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 753 Hello friends, This is from my husband's private mailing list--a report forwarded from The Progressive Response with three short articles on BIOSAFETY TREATY: GUESS WHICH SIDE U.S. IS ON , INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS AND THE PRIVATIZATION OF LIFE , & MILITARY BUDGET INCREASE: PAYING THE TROOPS OR PAYING OFF SPECIAL INTERESTS *** JS --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- I've received email asking what happened to the WTO and the efforts of the US government to strip nations around the world of their rights to regulate genetically engineered food and other pernicious products from multinational corporations. I've mentioned recently that the export of arms and GE foods represents the best hope the US has to trim the ballooning trade deficit, which could threaten corporate profits, the dollar, and thus Wall Street. Here's news about all that. The battleground has shifted, but the war continues. Curtis ......................................................................... The Progressive Response 26 February 1999 Vol. 3, No. 6 Editor: Tom Barry --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- The Progressive Response is a publication of Foreign Policy In Focus, a joint project of the Interhemispheric Resource Center and the Institute for Policy Studies. The project produces Foreign Policy In Focus (FPIF) briefs on various areas of current foreign policy debate. Electronic mail versions are available free of charge for subscribers. The Progressive Response is designed to keep the writers, contributors, and readers of the FPIF series informed about new issues and debates concerning U.S. foreign policy issues. We encourage comments to the FPIF briefs and to opinions expressed in PR. We're working to make the Progressive Response informative and useful, so let us know how we're doing, via email to irc1@zianet.com (that's irc, then the number one NOT the letter L.) Please put "Progressive Response" in the subject line. Please feel free to cross-post The Progressive Response elsewhere. We apologize for any duplicate copies of The Progressive Response you may receive. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Table of Contents *** 130 TO 5 ON BIOSAFETY TREATY: GUESS WHICH SIDE U.S. IS ON *** *** INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS AND THE PRIVATIZATION OF LIFE *** by Kristen Dawkins *** MILITARY BUDGET INCREASE: PAYING THE TROOPS OR PAYING OFF SPECIAL INTERESTS *** --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- *** 130 TO 5 ON BIOSAFETY TREATY: GUESS WHICH SIDE U.S. IS ON *** "It's five against the world," said Joseph M. Goto, the delegate from Zimbabwe to the recently concluded conference on the Biosafety Protocol of the Convention on Biological Diversity. The U.S. delegation led the opposition to the protocol, which would have required exporters of genetically altered plants, seeds, or other organisms to obtain advance approval by importing nations. "The United States is holding the world at ransom," Goto told the New York Times (U.S. and Allies Block Treaty on Genetically Altered Goods, Feb. 25). Joining the U.S. were Canada, Australia, Chile, Argentina, and Uruguay. Some 25 percent to 45 percent of major crops grown in the United States are genetically modified, and U.S. negotiators feared that the proposal would create obstacles for U.S. agricultural exports, one of the few economic sectors that enjoys a trade surplus. The U.S. was also determined to stop dead in its tracks any measure that would undermine the authority of the World Trade Organization to set the rules for global commerce. Kristin Dawkins of the Institute for Agricultural and Trade Policy, author of an FPIF policy brief on Intellectual Property Rights and the Privatization of Life, notes that the Convention on Biological Diversity provides a framework for the development of credible multilateral regimes that regulate the operations of transnational corporations while enabling local and regional resource management to evolve. The convention, which the U.S. has not ratified, mandated negotiations for a protocol on biosafety. "The U.S. is acting as a brake on progress, insisting there is no need to regulate trade in genetically engineered organisms," writes Dawkins. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- *** INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS AND THE PRIVATIZATION OF LIFE *** (Ed. Note: Kristin Dawkins, an analyst with the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, takes the U.S. to task for its aggressive promotion of intellectual property rights, including those that effectively privatize life, in a new FPIF policy brief, which is excerpted below and available with full text at: http://www.foreignpolicy-infocus.org/briefs/vol4/v4n04tra.html) Intellectual Property Rights and the Privatization of Life Kristin Dawkins, Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy The U.S. government has made the rigorous enforcement of intellectual property rights (IPR) a top priority of its foreign policy, using international trade negotiations as the means of continually ratcheting up the terms. Washington has made it clear to other governments that the global agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS)--one part of the 1994 Uruguay Round of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT)--is not sufficient. In every ongoing trade negotiation, the U.S. is seeking stronger "TRIPS-plus" terms. Most developing countries find current TRIPS to be onerous enough--facilitating transnational corporations' access to their internal markets and resources and limiting their own capacity to develop. These governments succeeded in writing into the final TRIPS agreement a "review" in 1999 of the most onerous terms and biennial reviews thereafter. Thus, the debate over what constitutes appropriate public policy governing IPR will continue to be of concern well into the next century. IPRs assign to inventors and artists (or more often, their corporate sponsors) the option to monopolize novel forms of commercially valuable knowledge--such as a new drug, software, graphic design, or musical recording--for extended periods of time, usually 20 years. They generally take the form of patents, trademarks, or copyrights and have traditionally fallen under the domain of national law. Over the years, different countries have produced different IPR laws, each one a balance between the desire of innovators to be rewarded for their efforts and the right of society to benefit from useful innovations. India, for example, distinguishes between food and drug processing--the formulae and mechanics of which are patentable--and the final foods and drug products available to consumers, which are not. With the advent of TRIPS, virtually all the world's nations have lost their right to determine the balance of private and public benefits designed to meet national development goals. Instead, they must comply with a single international standard designed to open their markets to transnational corporate interests. During the negotiations, a self-appointed Intellectual Property Committee consisting of Bristol Myers, DuPont, General Electric, General Motors, Hewlett Packard, IBM, Johnson and Johnson, Merck, Monsanto, Pfizer, Rockwell, and Time-Warner lobbied GATT negotiators extensively. Diplomats in Geneva concede that the pharmaceutical industry actually drafted much of the TRIPS text, and the industry's lead advocate inside the negotiating room was the U.S. government. The "life industry," as Monsanto and other leading agrochemical-pharmaceutical conglomerates now call themselves, asserts that IPR are essential for research and development. Without royalties guaranteed through IPR, they say, they could not afford to invest in the search for plants whose active ingredients may be the source of new life-saving drugs. Nor could they conduct research in genetic engineering, with which they will "feed the world." But public health advocates point out that patented drugs are far more expensive than their generic counterparts, generating windfall profits well beyond the actual costs of development. Public interest scientists worry that researchers are increasingly reluctant to publish early discoveries in order to increase the likelihood that they (or, more often, their companies or universities) will be the first to patent a commercial result. Critics point out that investments in genetic research to date have yielded little agronomic value but have instead resulted in crops that tolerate high doses of herbicides. The result is increased insect resistance to organic pesticides--in effect, creating superweeds and superbugs that in turn lead to new blights of damaging insects and the demand for ever more chemicals. In conjunction with other trade and investment policies, the global marketing of expensive patented medicines and seeds limits many communities' access to food and health. Furthermore, there are profound ethical and moral questions about trade policies that convert seeds, plants, and other forms of life into private property. In 1999, members of the World Trade Organization (WTO) are scheduled to review the TRIPS clauses relating to the patenting of plants, animals, genetically engineered organisms, and other forms of life. In 2000, developing countries are scheduled to bring their national laws into conformity with TRIPS rules; least developed countries have until 2005 to do so. Every two years from 2000 on, the entire TRIPS agreement will be reviewed. Meanwhile, Washington is exercising intense diplomatic pressure to force developing countries to comply with or even to surpass TRIPS requirements ahead of schedule. Problems With Current U.S. Policy Every six months, the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) releases an updated "Watch List" of a dozen or more countries against which the U.S. might impose trade sanctions in the future if they don't improve their IPR enforcement. The threats are issued under the infamous Super 301 clause within the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act of 1974. According to the WTO, such unilateral exercise of trade sanctions is illegal but no country has as yet challenged the frequent U.S. application of this law. Occasionally, threats of trade sanctions--which are almost always effective, due to their potential economic impact--are made on behalf of the auto, steel, or other manufacturing industries, but with the advent of the "information age," the protection of IPR is paramount. Though much of this effort is directed toward the computer and entertainment industries, the U.S. has also exercised considerable diplomatic pressure to bully other countries about the patenting of plants. In 1997, the U.S. unilaterally reimposed import duties on $260 million of Argentine exports in retaliation for Argentina's refusal to rewrite its patent legislation to the satisfaction of the USTR Office. In the past several years, Washington has repeatedly threatened Ecuador with the possible loss of $80 million worth of income from its fish exports to the U.S. in order to force ratification of a bilateral agreement on IPR. India, Pakistan, Ethiopia, Brazil, and many other countries have similarly faced Super 301 threats about their patent laws. In April 1997, the U.S. State Department sent a letter to the Royal Thai Government (RTG) regarding draft Thai legislation allowing Thai healers to register traditional medicines, thus keeping them within the public domain. The letter advised the RTG that "Washington believes that such a registration system could constitute a possible violation of TRIPS and hamper medical research into these compounds." The State Department requested official responses to 11 questions, beginning with: "What is the relationship of the proposal to the granting of patent protection in Thailand?" and ending with: "Does the RTG envision a contractual system to handle relationships between Thai healers and foreign researchers in the future?" In response, more than 120 nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) from around the world--including farmers' organizations, advocates of social justice, environmental groups, consumer coalitions, and so on--wrote U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. They pointed out that the State Department's letter implies an interest on the part of the U.S. government to transfer traditional Thai knowledge to U.S. researchers for eventual patenting--ironically denying Thailand the right to protect that knowledge. The NGOs agreed that governments should conform with international agreements to which they subscribe, but they noted that it is neither "the United States' responsibility nor its right to interfere with their national democratic processes for doing so." A number of nations have contested patents granted by the U.S. Patent and Trademarks Office (PTO) for biological materials, especially plants, taken from their peoples. In May 1998, Bolivians successfully defeated Colorado State University's application for a U.S. patent on quinoa, a valuable food grain native to villages throughout the Andes. The Indian government successfully overturned a U.S. patent awarded for turmeric, a common spice used for healing minor wounds in addition to cooking. India has objected to numerous U.S. patents on uses of neem, a tree growing in virtually every Indian village, which is used as a natural biocide for brushing teeth, washing clothes, shampooing, and other daily chores. India, Pakistan, and Thailand are currently mounting campaigns against U.S. patents awarded to a Texas company for Basmati and Jasmine rice strains perfected by peasant farmers over thousands of years. There are many such cases. This biopiracy, as it is often called, yields new profits for U.1S. companies, which take the raw material, alter it in the laboratory to claim an invention, and win the patent. For source countries, this represents double trouble for their economies. First, their natural resource has been appropriated by a foreign corporation, and they are prohibited from further developing the resource domestically. Second, there will be a net outflow of foreign exchange, as licensing fees and royalties are paid on any commercial products eventually exported back to their domestic markets. Indeed, the expressed goals of IPR--to encourage innovation and promote the transfer of technology--are turned on their heads. A third major problem resulting from the patenting of plants is genetic pollution and the loss of biodiversity. Once a commercially viable product has been patented, companies invest in massive marketing campaigns and do not hesitate to enlist governments in promoting the product through the international financial institutions, rural extension services, and special loans and grants tied to designated seed-and-chemical packages. As a result, vast monocultures are planted with genetically identical seed, which in turn leads to thriving blights and the disappearance of local plant varieties. Furthermore, bees and other pollinators transfer the genes of transgenic crops to wild relatives, affecting local ecosystems in significant, potentially catastrophic ways. This genetic pollution, as it is being called, becomes part of the gene pool and can never be remediated. Extinction is forever. Toward a New Foreign Policy The U.S. should cease its campaign to outlaw the a priori rights of communities to the resources that sustain them. The U.S. should also cease utilizing Super 301 and other bullying tactics and instead join the world community of nations in finding multilateral solutions to the struggle over valuable natural resources. U.S. negotiators have lobbied for the weakest possible terms of a biosafety protocol of the Convention on Biological Diversity. Simultaneously, the USTR and the U.S. Secretary of Agriculture have announced (as loudly as possible) that they consider European regulations on genetically engineered foods to be barriers to trade that the U.S. will fight in every forum available at the WTO. The tactics include ongoing dispute settlement processes, the current review of the Sanitary and Phytosanitary Agreement, and reconsideration of the Agriculture Agreement in 2000. The U.S. should cease this irresponsible behavior and, consistent with the precautionary principle established at the 1992 Earth Summit, support a careful regulatory regime--including ecosystem-specific testing and extensive adult human trials, subject to their prior informed consent--before unleashing transgenic foods and seeds into open markets. Researchers with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the quasi-public Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research (CGIAR), which coordinates activities among 16 gene banks around the world, should be directed to develop on-farm genetic diversification projects and other alternatives to industrial production at least as actively as they invest in genetic engineering. All agricultural research should be devoted to food security instead of corporate marketing strategies. The USDA should divest itself entirely of projects like the "terminator technology," so dubbed by the Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI), which discovered that U.S. taxpayers had subsidized this research. The terminator is a genetic engineering technique that causes plants to release a fatal toxin in the second generation of seed, so they cannot reproduce themselves. The U.S. PTO should revoke the terminator patent. So, too, patent offices in the other 77 countries where it is now pending should reject this abomination. Indeed, governments everywhere should ensure their citizens' democratic right to legislate protection of the rights of farmers and traditional communities. If the WTO is to negotiate any revisions to TRIPS next year, let prohibitions on the patenting of life prevail. The U.S. Congress should instruct the U.S. Patents and Trademarks Office and the Office of the Trade Representative to about-face and join the rest of the world. Kristin Dawkins, an analyst at the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, is author of Gene Wars (New York: Seven Stories Press, 1997). Sources for More Information Center for Technology Assessment (CTA) Email: office@icta.org Website: http://www.icta.org Consumer Project on Technology Email: love@cptech.org Website: http://www.cptech.org Council for Responsible Genetics (CRG) Email: crg@essential.org Website: http://www.essential.org/crg/ Edmonds Institute Email: beb@igc.org Gaia Foundation Email: gaiafund@gn.apc.org Website: http://www.coama.org.co/GFOUN-I.TXT Genetic Resources Action International (GRAIN) Email: grain@bcn.servicom.es Website: http://www.grain.org/ Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy Email: kdawkins@iatp.org Website: http://www.iatp.org Institute for Sustainable Development (ISD) Email: sustain@telecom.net Rural Advancement Foundation International-USA (RAFI) Email: hope@rafiusa.org Third World Network (TWN) Email: twn@igc.apc.org or twnpen@twn.po.my Website: http://www.southside.org.sg/souths/twn/twn.htm Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) Email: mmellon@ucsusa.org Website: http://www.ucsusa.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- *** MILITARY BUDGET INCREASE: PAYING THE TROOPS OR PAYING OFF SPECIAL INTERESTS *** With Congress upping the ante, by literally billions of dollars, on Clinton's proposed military pay and pensions increase, the question is who will benefit. Clinton and Congress both contend that the money is needed to increase salaries for troops in the field. The reality is that it will be the military top brass and defense contractors who will benefit. This military pay increase, together with a bill sponsored by Sen. Thad Cochran (R-MS), which calls for the deployment of a National Missile Defense--or Star Wars--system "as soon as technologically possible," are the most expensive items on Congress's agenda. "Both President Clinton and his Republican counterparts on Capitol Hill have tried to present their proposals for a multi-billion dollar weapons buildup as essential for 'military readiness' and the well-being of our men and women in uniform," notes William D. Hartung. Hartung is the President's Fellow at the World Policy Institute at the New School and the author of a recent Foreign Policy In Focus report, The Military Industrial Complex Revisited: How Weapons Makers are Shaping U.S. Foreign and Military Policies. "But if you look at the fine print, the main beneficiaries of this unnecessary buildup are not the men and women of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines, but the executives and shareholders of the Big Three weapons makers--Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Raytheon." The Pentagon is favoring "toys over boys" (weapons over personnel) in its newly announced six-year military budget plan, Hartung says. He cites the Pentagon's own figures: weapons procurement is slated to increase by 53%, from $49 billion now to $75 billion in 2005, while personnel spending is scheduled for only a 22% increase over that same time period. To add insult to injury, the pay increases that are being granted may be going to the wrong people. As Defense Week reported on February 22nd, the biggest raises will go to mid-level officers who are "more or less satisfied with their pay," not to enlisted personnel who are "dissatisfied with the pay they are getting." And if pay increases are needed, the money should come from cutting waste in other parts of the Pentagon budget. Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) noted in a recent letter to President Clinton that the $3 billion price tag of the Pentagon's proposed pay package for F.Y. 2000 is equal to the value of the inventory that the Navy has lost--or cannot account for--in recent years. "If Bill Clinton and Al Gore really want to reinvent government, why are they rewarding mismanagement by throwing more money at the Pentagon before it has been forced to clean up its act?" wonders Hartung. "And the most mismanaged program of all is Star Wars, which has eaten up $55 billion in taxpayer money since 1983 without producing a single workable device. By boosting funding for this dangerous and unworkable program, President Clinton is jeopardizing the future of nuclear arms control to curry favor with a motley coalition of defense contractors and conservative true believers who are the core supporters of this misguided project." (For a profile of the Star Wars lobby, see "Military Industrial Complex Revisited," p. 13). The President's generosity to the Pentagon is coming at the expense of our fundamental security needs here at home: "a good education for our kids, safe air and drinking water, and investments in civilian technologies that can create high-paying jobs for the next generation," notes Miriam Pemberton, a senior analyst at the Institute for Policy Studies and the author of A Tale of Two Markets: Trade in Arms and Environmental Technologies. The tradeoffs are stark. This year's $12 billion increase for the Pentagon is three times the entire annual budget for the Environmental Protection Agency. As the Council for a Livable World noted in a recent analysis, the President's proposed $112 billion, six year increase for the Pentagon would be enough to repair the majority of our nation's dilapidated school facilities, and the $3 billion set aside for the redundant F/A-18E/F fighter for the Navy would be enough to fund the unmet health care needs of our nation's veterans. "Before Congress signs off on the largest military budget increase since the Reagan era, they should make sure we are cutting the fat at the Pentagon and making the investments we need to ensure a strong economy and society here at home," argues Pemberton. Sources for More Information Foreign Policy In Focus http://www.foreignpolicy-infocus.org/topics/ifmp.html Military/ Industrial Complex Revisited by William Hartung http://www.foreignpolicy-infocus.org/papers/micr/ World Policy Institute, New School for Social Research http://www.worldpolicy.org Council for a Livable World and Education Fund http://www.clw.org --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- To subscribe or unsubscribe to the Progressive Response, go to: http://www.foreignpolicy-infocus.org/progresp/progresp.html and follow the instructions. For those readers without access to the www send an email message to: newusfp-manager@zianet.com with the words "join newusfp" in the body of the message. To unsubscribe, send an email message to: newusfp-manager@zianet.com with the words "leave newusfp" in the body of the message. Visit the Foreign Policy In Focus website, http://www.foreignpolicy-infocus.org/iflist.html, for a complete listing of In Focus briefs and text versions of the briefs. To order policy briefs, our book Global Focus: A New Foreign Policy Agenda 1997-98, or for more information contact the Interhemispheric Resource Center or the Institute for Policy Studies. IRC Tom Barry Co-director, Foreign Policy Project Interhemispheric Resource Center (IRC) Box 2178 Silver City, NM 88062-2178 Voice: (505) 388-0208 Fax: (505) 388-0619 Email: irc tom@zianet.com IPS Martha Honey Co-director, Foreign Policy Project Director, Peace and Security 733 15th Street NW, 10th Floor Washington, DC 20005 Voice: (202) 234-9382 Fax: (202) 387-7915 Email: ipsps@igc.apc.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 22:50:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA16326 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:50:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA04677; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:40:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA04294 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:37:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.36]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:39:42 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:39:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: Blackshirts who burned OJ Simpson's Personal Belongings Message-ID: <1D4A505C4CC5CF7A852567250013EB84.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 754 (Another one from Curtis' list) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Excerpt From Phil Agre's Red Rock Eater News Service The 2/18/99 LA Times carried a photo of a group of black-shirted conservatives burning some of OJ Simpson's personal belongings, which they had bought at an auction. The article describes the blackshirts as followers of a Denver radio host named Bob Enyart, who is quoted as calling for "abolishing the jury system and replacing 'reasonable doubt' with a reasonable evidence standard". Some of the blackshirts thoughtfully wore their group's URL, www.shadowgov.com. I encourage you to check this site out. You might particularly check out the first two chapters of a fictional book in which they explain what, according to them, a Christian government would be like. It starts out with a coup whose anonymous leaders announce that homosexuality and advocating abortion have become capital crimes. Chapter two narrates a trial in which -- and I swear that I am not making this up -- a pro-choice leader is flogged for insisting on her right to an attorney. Jesus wept. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Feb 26 23:25:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA17378 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 23:25:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA09659; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 23:15:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09102 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 23:12:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.137.155] (max9-19.stc.net [208.210.135.19]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA18013 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 23:14:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D6F1B8.14F3@xtra.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:51:42 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: STUDY:L3:2 Astrality Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 755 Glen, Pam, Study Circle, Well it may not be so obvious to those reading this lecture for the first time, but lecture three really is the lecture about astrality, since it is the lecture about the significance of nitrogen. The spirit, with the aid of sulfur, interacts with carbon to give rise to form. Really it gives rise to physical form by draging silica and lime in. And by bringing in oxygen we have etheric form. And with nitrogen we have astral form. And in combination with hydrogen carbon expresses the ego nature. Nevertheless, the central theme of this lecture is nitrogen and there's a lot in this lecture--such as the information about meditation--about astrality. Let's see about harmonizing lectures one, two and three. LECTURE ONE was about seeing things in context rather than in isolation--first looking at the cosmos rather than looking first to chemistry. LECTURE TWO was about visualizing the farm as an independent entity analogous to a person standing on his head, buried up to his diaphragm in the soil. In the belly above ground are Moon, Mercury and Venus working inward via lime, while in the head below ground are Mars, Jupiter and Saturn working upward via silica, and facilitating things between these is clay. For each new round (generation) of biological activity things must be driven as far as possible to chaos, out of which new beginnings spring under the influence of the farthest reaches of the cosmos. This lecture is very challenging as it beseeches us to learn to read the forms of things, both plant and animal so we may understand just what planets and constellations are expressed and how. Now we have LECTURE THREE which finally gets down to chemistry, but with what a difference! This is occult chemistry, since as far as chemistry as it is taught in the universities is concerned these things are completely hidden and unknown--many would say unknowable. Here we are looking at chemistry in the context of the whole cosmos rather than looking at chemistry in the kind of isolation that laboratories provide. I well realize that Steiner is so heavy duty that most of it sails over heads at first exposure. It's essential to get Steiner's terms defined, and there isn't much help to be had from the dictionary nor are there glossaries available to amount to much. Maybe at least it will help to look at these things in perspective. In this vein we can look forward to LECTURE FOUR, which finally gets down to specific recommendations for what to do. Even then this material is wonderfully general and encourages great latitude. Ain't life grand! Well, yes, BUT sometimes, like when you're knocked unconscious with a springloaded kosh behind the ear, it's a little hard to see it that way. So it is with these lectures. They are exciting and all but incredible, BUT sometimes, like when they put you to sleep at every turn, it's a little hard to see it that way. Regards, Hugh Lovel >This section provides so many questions which I will allow to settle and >filter for a few more days. > >The strong impression I am left with though is the remarkable and >important role of nitrogen and the Astrality in the growth of plants. >This leads me to reflect on previous discussions we have had regarding >plant growth from lecture 2 and the ethers in general, as well as the >emphasis on the ethers being the central spiritual influence on growth >made in many BD books, with very little mention of the role of the >Astrality. > >This lecture points clearly to the role of all four bodies as major >influences in BD plant growth and that minialising the influence of the >Astrality is indeed incorrect. > >At some point lectures two and three need to ne harmonised. For the >future > >Cheers > >Glen A. Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 00:43:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18350 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:43:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA21318; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:33:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA21063 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:31:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.133.43] (max5-43.stc.net [208.210.133.43]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA22797 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:33:06 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: uai@stc.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990226204702.7747.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:10:01 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Study - shall we continue... Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 756 >Thanks for this reply Hugh, > >fingers on the hand. Each of the four actual fingers represents one of >the four elements--fire (middle finger), earth (little finger), air >(index finger) and water (ring finger). The thumb, however, represents >the ether "finger" since it makes all the other fingers work.> > >This brings to mind something I first read from Helena Blavatski. In >some of the original Asian peoples, a common occurence is the anamoly of >a sixth finger. > >At first I was in dis-belief. So I asked my wife, who comes from Asia, >is this really true? She confirmed that there are some Chinese clans >that have the sixth, located near the thumb and shares the same bone as >the thumb. Essentially, this is a dead finger and has no use. > >Do you have any intro-spection on this sixth-thumb finger? > >Michael. Dear Michael, I considered writing about 6 fingered hands (4 finger and 2 thumbs) and then thought I'd better leave it out. So now it's back to haunt me. The number of Mankind--at least for this world age--is 5, a prime number. But we've got two hands with a total of 10 fingers so we use base 10. Not exactly the most harmonious relationship either numerically or numerologically, but we're not living in such harmonious times either. Maybe in some future--unforseeable as far as I'm thinking currently--mankind will use base 12 with all its harmonies involving 2, 3, 4, and 6. We do this with our measurment of time, and there we even include 5 x 12 = 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour. We also measure degrees of arc by dividing a circle up into 360 degrees. Lots of nice harmonies there. For the present, however, folks with 6 digits are mighty unusual and they don't fit into present day humanity very well. Best Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 01:51:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA18917 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:51:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA26402; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:40:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA26248 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:37:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.68] (pm3shep2-163-85.intrepid.net [209.190.163.85]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA17118 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:39:26 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902261903.OAA21018@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:39:19 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Nutritional quality of biodynamic food Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 757 >Allan, at the risk of opening up a sore point (your overloaded work >schedule), I do have an out-of-print poster of various chromas done under >Pfieffer's direction. If I scan it in, do you want to post the pictures? What is this and how big is it and do you have the rights? -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 01:52:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA18929 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:52:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA26360; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:40:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA26239 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:37:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.68] (pm3shep2-163-85.intrepid.net [209.190.163.85]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA17109 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:39:23 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D73880.F200848F@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:37:10 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: SCANNING OF PICTURES ETC. AND PIGEONHOLING THEM Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 758 Your web page is the best solution because anything else requires more steps. We could use an FTP site, but, on a list like this, those files would have no security, so, a picture your placed there could be overlayed with a different picture, which, of course, everyone would think was the picture you intended. For heaven's sake, Ferdinand, my 9 year old has put up some pretty nice web pages (check out the spice girls on www.igg.com) what is the hold up on yours? Other than this, I have a standing offer to publish pictures on the www. -Allan >Dear List, dear Allan, >Isn't there a way that we could 'deposit' pictures and drawings at a >certain server (like a message board) and give it a code say: BD00001, >next BD00002 etc. so that participants could go there to see these >pictures and download them (if they want) or look at them? >Has such an invention been made? > >I feel at times 'stressed' to put everything into words, whereas one >picture is ten hours on the keyboard. My Webside is in preparation but >what pain in the a........ (at least for me) and Pam is helping me. > >Regards FErdinand >-- > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- > >To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow >(being) I have declared >1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site >addresses, references, >statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. >I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 03:14:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA19539 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:14:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA29835; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:03:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA29762 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:03:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GekB-000318-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:05:03 -0800 Message-ID: <36D7A6E9.F35DEA70@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:03:53 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Being with COWS, and one's health Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 759 Julie M wrote: -- PS: Cow note...John told me tonight, he marvels at how everyone at work has been sick consistently throughout the winter, but (knock on wood) he has not once. He says its being with cows every morning & night...being outside, yes, but there's something about being around cows that is GOOD for you! What do you think of that? This is absolutely so as long as the cows can express themselves rhythmically. And this, in my opinion is an in-breathing and an out-breathing. Here we have to following points: The milking at a specific time The being fed time The going onto the field time The resting time The being permitted to wander/move around time The sleeping time The being spoken to time The mucking out time The spraying BC compost time The checking their health time (often happens during milking time) The cleaning time (more for miling cows than beef cattle) Being around cows demands a certain (slow) pace (of life). A nervous farmer, by observation, often has cows that produce less milk than a slow, steady and low voiced farmer. Moving in the etheric and astral field of a cow herd is a soothing experience that can strengthen once health and a lot of joy and pride bubbles to the surface (in the owners psyche i.e. heart). To lean onto a cows back or to pad the bull or to sit for a moment on a bale of hay and to 'slurp in' that invisible something that the cows emenate is one of the most healing medicine one can think of - much more than what I experience in the horse stable where the movements are quicker, the eyes much more (outwardly) attentive and the digestive system rather nervous. I wrote about the experience (last year) on sleeping on a cow in the field - what a healing experience that it. United with nature, surrounded by mother earth and the slow and rhythmical breathing with a steaming warmth that beats any sauna hands down. That, in my opinion, is the ultimate healing experience. Regards Ferdinand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 03:16:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA19572 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:16:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA29998; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:06:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA29946 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:06:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GenQ-0004dt-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:08:24 -0800 Message-ID: <36D7A7B2.8CF67B6F@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:07:14 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: SCANNING OF PICTURES ETC. AND PIGEONHOLING THEM References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 760 Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Your web page is the best solution because anything else requires more > steps. We could use an FTP site, but, on a list like this, those files > would have no security, so, a picture your placed there could be overlayed > with a different picture, which, of course, everyone would think was the > picture you intended. > > For heaven's sake, Ferdinand, my 9 year old has put up some pretty nice web > pages (check out the spice girls on www.igg.com) what is the hold up on > yours? > > Other than this, I have a standing offer to publish pictures on the www. > > -Allan My farming hands, my dear friend - that's the problem. And a not yet very much adapted mind to Mr. Gate's world. Ferdinand > > > >Dear List, dear Allan, > >Isn't there a way that we could 'deposit' pictures and drawings at a > >certain server (like a message board) and give it a code say: BD00001, > >next BD00002 etc. so that participants could go there to see these > >pictures and download them (if they want) or look at them? > >Has such an invention been made? > > > >I feel at times 'stressed' to put everything into words, whereas one > >picture is ten hours on the keyboard. My Webside is in preparation but > >what pain in the a........ (at least for me) and Pam is helping me. > > > >Regards FErdinand > >-- > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >------------- > > > >To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow > >(being) I have declared > >1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site > >addresses, references, > >statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. > >I thank you for your help. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 03:28:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA19673 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:28:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA00466; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:18:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00360 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:17:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GeyD-0003JV-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:19:33 -0800 Message-ID: <36D7AA4F.3BC5DA9C@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:18:23 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD in Croatia References: <199902240941.KAA05595@bach.iskon.hr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 761 Dear Jasminka, If ever you see Menzo de Boom again, give him my very best regards. I studied with him at Emerson College, in England. Regards Ferdinand Jasminka wrote: > Hello Ferdinand, Andrew, Fred and alll! > > Thank you for the warm welcome. > The Living Earth is the Croatian BD asociation. > As Croatia is small, it is relatively easy to be a > national association. We organize the education and > promotion of the BD practices and we all learn together. > Slowly, but now already for five years, > the association has been preparing the series of lectures > on agriculture and BD and homeodynamic etc. > Among our lecturers were, and we hope they will be again > Maria and Mathias Thun (Austria - we publish their lunar sowing calender) > Menzo de Boom, dr. eco. agro. from Australia; > Anamarija Slabe, graduate eng. agro. from Ljubljana; > Enzo Nastati, a homeodynamic expert from Trieste; > Ivan Hajduk, a member of the "Living Earth"; > Zlata Nanić, the president of the "Living Earth" society, a lecturer at health > food seminars. > > The asociation is not big, but we have some very experienced > people working with us and I am grateful to be part of it. > I myself started to voulonteer with the Living Earth > a year ago and am going to continue untill my > graduation. Than, I will start to "farm/garden". > > This year we have workshops on BD preparations, antropozophy, > some gatherings. For example the next weekend the workshop will be held on the > homeodynamic work with seeds for their protection and saving. > > That much for now, > from the other end of the world :-) > > Light and smiles > Jasminka > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 03:29:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA19686 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:29:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA00425; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:18:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00327 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:16:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Gewx-0003IA-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:18:15 -0800 Message-ID: <36D7AA01.38672526@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:17:05 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' References: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> <36D36BED.42D4@javanet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 762 Dear Christian, I will eventually discuss this with my colleagues, however, it will take a bit of time. At this moment, I can only say that experience has shown that the 6th grain IS the one that produces the best NEW plant AND seed when planted on BD soil. As indicated, one has to count from the bottom up. Regards Ferdinand Christian Elwell wrote: > Dear Ferdinand, > > Ihave been growing a short grain upland variety of rice here in > Massachusetts for a number of years, along with other small grains. I am > very interested to learn more about the "6th seed" research and method > of seed care/selection. Can you tell us which is the 6th grain on an ear > of wheat for instance? Are you counting from the bottom, or, from the > top? Why the 6th seed? Is there published reference(s) we can refer to, > how to use/apply this method of seed selection? Thank you! Christian > Elwell -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 03:33:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA19714 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:33:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA00684; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:24:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00626 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:23:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Gf48-0005SV-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:25:40 -0800 Message-ID: <36D7ABBC.D5E5CCAD@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:24:28 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: mushrooms References: <6c5146e4.36d444ad@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 763 Dear Jeff, I had a thought. If you have a small corner in you 'plantation' (how do you call your....whatever? A mushroomery.....?) Well, if you ever have a small corner, please make the following test. Stir 500 and spray it before you do the pinning and, when the mushrooms come out, spray 501. And on one area, do NOT spray 501. I would like to hear more about your findings. (Permit me to guess that you may get smaller mushrooms where you did spray 501 but possibly more tasty?) Incidentally, do you use BD Compost preparations before you do the pinning? Regards Ferdinand JHatf18942@aol.com wrote: > Dear Ferdy, > Thanks for your reply regarding mushroom cultivation. We grow our mushrooms > on small diameter hardwoods and on organic straw. We are working on growing > our own straw (thus BD). Any thoughts to the forces at play during mushroom > growth, or what might be done to enhance these forces? I certainly notice > much more mushroom initiation (pinning) during the full moon. Peace. Jeff > Hatfield -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 04:19:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA20033 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:19:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA01973; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:08:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from www5.iname.net (www5.iname.net [165.251.12.25]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA01899 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:06:53 -0500 (EST) From: pamdetray@email.com Received: by www5.iname.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) id EAA07560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9902270408574E.19515@www5.iname.net> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 04:08:57 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Ferdinand's web site Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 764 ---- On Feb 27 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > > For heaven's sake, Ferdinand, my 9 year old has put up some pretty nice web > > pages (check out the spice girls on www.igg.com) what is the hold up on > > yours? > > > > Other than this, I have a standing offer to publish pictures on the www. > > > > -Allan > > My farming hands, my dear friend - that's the problem. And a not yet very much > adapted mind to Mr. Gate's world. Ferdinand Dear Allan and list, Besides Ferdinand's farming, factor in his being away from computer contact most of the winter, then my lack of equipment while I was deciding if and how to replace my poor old Mac that finally gave it up. Now, at last, I'm no longer restricted to an hour here and there on the public library computer, and I'll be able to help Ferdinand organize his information, and photos by Himself and a few by taken by me during my visit last fall. Be patient--I'm still stumbling around on my new Mac, getting used to updated software, a ROUND mouse, a tinier keyboard, etc., all adding up to a slightly different way of working. But I sure am having fun so far--and I'm looking forward to playing with Page Mill. Ferdinand's site is well worth helping into being. Warmest regards, Pam DeTray ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 05:53:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA20903 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 05:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA05211; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 05:43:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA05063 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 05:40:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.22]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:27:12 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990227022157.008814a0@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:21:57 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad von Zirkwitz Subject: Re: Living Energies -- What about energized water? ETC In-Reply-To: <19990226185838.16184.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 765 Hi Lloyd, It sounds like you're talking about the Johann Grander system. The way it works as I understand it: The system uses old mature water almost fossilized water encased in an unknown metal, possibly nickel, and when this is hooked into the water supply, water runs through the fossil water case and is impressed with the vibrations of the mature water. The resultant water carries a stronger vortex and does less giving and taking from our bodies when we drink it. Your query about what would be good to convert mercury and other toxic chemicals is a good one. I would like to know a better way to deal toxic things that I encounter, stuff like the shiny coloured junk mail that we get by the pounds. What organisms to we lay the burden on of convert our toxic waste? Maybe there is some bacteria or other micro-organisms out there that feed specifically on mercury. And what about orgone accumulators, what are the limits of these devices? Sincerely, Conrad Lloyd wrote: >Hi. I've heard about using energized water and vitalized water for >agriculture. Does anyone know how these are produced? Is it by the same >kind of stirring and counterstirring done with bd preps? I have some ad >literature that mentions THE WATER REVITALIZATION SYSTEM used in Europe >to make their dead, polluted rivers come back to new life. It says the >water swirls thru a double helix, causing implosions, like in a >thunderstorm, which charge the water with bio-energy or prana. The water >is said to taste and smell better and is detoxified. I'd love to know >more about that if anyone has heard of it. > While I'm at it, I'd like to know a few more things: like the 3 fresh >fruit juices that are said to keep teeth clean and white when used in >brushing; the unripe berry whose acid can stop aging of cells in the >body [according to a Russian report -- the berry can grow in the U.S.]; >a cheap natural substance that can neutralize mercury and other toxic >chemicals by binding with them. I'd be very grateful for any leads >anyone can provide about these items. Aloha, Lloyd > >>Woody posted: >> >>> Coates seems to have made a lifework of explicating Schauberger. Two >>>followup books are now in print, "The Water Wizard" and "Nature as >>>Teacher", edited by Coates and both mostly in Schauberger's words. A >>>third book in this "Ecotechnology" series is due out this year. >>> >>>If you like Theodore Schwenk or Olaf Alexandresson's "Living Water," >[also >>>about Schauberger], you'll LOVE Coates. >>> >> >> >>As I understand it, Hugh Lovel lectured at a conference recently with >Mr. >>Coates. Maybe he has some of his usual deft observations about the man >and >>his work. HUGH?? >> >>-Allan Balliett >>moderator, BD NOW! >>igg@igg.com >> > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 07:30:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA21607 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:30:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA09237; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:21:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA09057 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:18:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.68] (pm3shep3-163-147.intrepid.net [209.190.163.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10360 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:20:08 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D7AA01.38672526@direct.ca> References: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> <36D36BED.42D4@javanet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:21:30 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: "Bioneering" Malapropism Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 766 I see that Stettler's original message title "Bioengineering: "Smoke good"" has migrated to "Bioneering 'Smoke good'" While this just may be an almost Joycean pun, I can only assume it's really no more than a fragment of disinformation. The title should remain "Bioengineering: "Smoke good."" A Bioneer, of course, is a title given by Kenny Ausbel to pioneers in biology, heroes of the biosphere. Kenny bestows the title; Al Kapuler is most definitely not, at this point in time, a titled Bioneer. IMHO, It would be unfortunate to associate, even in just a few minds, "Bioneering" with the content of Mr. Stettler's post. -Allan Balliett moderator, BD Now! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 07:36:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA22133 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:36:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA09482; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:26:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA09383 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:24:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.68] (pm3shep3-163-147.intrepid.net [209.190.163.147]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11030 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:26:42 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9902270408574E.19515@www5.iname.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:27:14 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Re: Ferdinand's web site Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 767 Design is always a tremendous time consumer, and far be it for me to 'condemn' or pressure someone who is thinking or waiting for the 'muse.' However, what Ferdinand has asked for is completely utilitarian: a way to simply publish his pictures on the www. That could be a very easy, a fast thing to do. Further more, I believe that most browsers will retrieve gifs from a website without html being present, in other words, if Ferdinand ftps a gif to a directory and gives us the URL, we can see it, without an prior coding. No? -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! > ---- On Feb 27 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: >> >> >> Intergalactic Garage wrote: >> >> > For heaven's sake, Ferdinand, my 9 year old has put up some pretty >>nice web >> > pages (check out the spice girls on www.igg.com) what is the hold up on >> > yours? >> > >> > Other than this, I have a standing offer to publish pictures on the www. >> > >> > -Allan >> >> My farming hands, my dear friend - that's the problem. And a not yet >>very much >> adapted mind to Mr. Gate's world. Ferdinand > > >Dear Allan and list, > > Besides Ferdinand's farming, factor in his being away from computer >contact most of the winter, then my lack of equipment while I was deciding >if and how to replace my poor old Mac that finally gave it up. > Now, at last, I'm no longer restricted to an hour here and there on >the public library computer, and I'll be able to help Ferdinand organize >his information, and photos by Himself and a few by taken by me during my >visit last fall. > Be patient--I'm still stumbling around on my new Mac, getting used to >updated software, a ROUND mouse, a tinier keyboard, etc., all adding up >to a slightly different way of working. But I sure am having fun so >far--and I'm looking forward to playing with Page Mill. Ferdinand's site >is well worth helping into being. > >Warmest regards, > > >Pam DeTray >----------------------------------------------- >FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com >Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 10:33:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23543 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:33:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA19311; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:25:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19222 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:24:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem125.digisys.net [205.138.110.174]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00483 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:26:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D80EC3.3C1A1F89@digisys.net> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:26:59 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Re: Being with COWS, and one's health References: <36D7A6E9.F35DEA70@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 768 Ah Ferdinand you are absolutely poetic. The scene my mind conjures on reading this is one of complete harmony. Pat http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Julie M wrote: > > -- PS: Cow note...John told me tonight, he marvels at how everyone at > work has > been sick consistently throughout the winter, but (knock on wood) he has > not > once. He says its being with cows every morning & night...being outside, > > yes, but there's something about being around cows that is GOOD for you! > > What do you think of that? > > This is absolutely so as long as the cows can express themselves > rhythmically. And this, in my opinion is an in-breathing and an > out-breathing. Here we have to following points: > > The milking at a specific time > The being fed time > The going onto the field time > The resting time > The being permitted to wander/move around time > The sleeping time > The being spoken to time > The mucking out time > The spraying BC compost time > The checking their health time (often happens during milking time) > The cleaning time (more for miling cows than beef cattle) > > Being around cows demands a certain (slow) pace (of life). A nervous > farmer, by observation, often has cows that produce less milk than a > slow, steady and low voiced farmer. Moving in the etheric and astral > field of a cow herd is a soothing experience that can strengthen once > health and a lot of joy and pride bubbles to the surface (in the owners > psyche i.e. heart). To lean onto a cows back or to pad the bull or to > sit for a moment on a bale of hay and to 'slurp in' that invisible > something that the cows emenate is one of the most healing medicine one > can think of - much more than what I experience in the horse stable > where the movements are quicker, the eyes much more (outwardly) > attentive and the digestive system rather nervous. I wrote about the > experience (last year) on sleeping on a cow in the field - what a > healing experience that it. United with nature, surrounded by mother > earth and the slow and rhythmical breathing with a steaming warmth that > beats any sauna hands down. That, in my opinion, is the ultimate healing > experience. Regards Ferdinand > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow > (being) I have declared > 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site > addresses, references, > statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. > I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 10:48:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23668 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:48:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA20616; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:39:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20252 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:37:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0109.direct.ca ([204.244.83.9] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Glpb-0004nO-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:39:07 -0800 Message-ID: <36D8114C.4835233C@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:37:48 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Re: Ferdinand's web site References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 769 Dear Allan, I did not want to monopolize the discussion with the development of any (or my) Web site. I was simply looking for a way of how we could be able to help (each other) to see pictures that (not only I) have been taken and want to be shown. I could not imagine that those on BDNOW (who have great pictures of their work etc.) would all want to start a Web site as well. One needs to say more than simply: here is a picture, if one wishes to start a WEb site, I think. And for that reason, I thought, that perhaps someone could manage a BDNOW Web site into which pictures could be pasted (once per week) that could be seen by the several hundred on this list. Martha made a kind offer. She said that she'd be willing to put my pictures up in her Web site. And I think that this has opened a door (in my brain) that, perhaps the now being developed WEb Site of C-Dar World Forest Foundation may carry such a Visitors Gallery or whatever. I will discuss it with Pam whom I am deeply indebted for her help and enthusiasm AND perseverance. I am a very difficult farm animal to train - much worse than my Ostriches.....! REgards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Design is always a tremendous time consumer, and far be it for me to > 'condemn' or pressure someone who is thinking or waiting for the 'muse.' > > However, what Ferdinand has asked for is completely utilitarian: a way to > simply publish his pictures on the www. That could be a very easy, a fast > thing to do. Further more, I believe that most browsers will retrieve gifs > from a website without html being present, in other words, if Ferdinand > ftps a gif to a directory and gives us the URL, we can see it, without an > prior coding. No? > > -Allan Balliett > moderator > BD Now! > > > ---- On Feb 27 Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > >> > >> > >> Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >> > >> > For heaven's sake, Ferdinand, my 9 year old has put up some pretty > >>nice web > >> > pages (check out the spice girls on www.igg.com) what is the hold up on > >> > yours? > >> > > >> > Other than this, I have a standing offer to publish pictures on the www. > >> > > >> > -Allan > >> > >> My farming hands, my dear friend - that's the problem. And a not yet > >>very much > >> adapted mind to Mr. Gate's world. Ferdinand > > > > > >Dear Allan and list, > > > > Besides Ferdinand's farming, factor in his being away from computer > >contact most of the winter, then my lack of equipment while I was deciding > >if and how to replace my poor old Mac that finally gave it up. > > Now, at last, I'm no longer restricted to an hour here and there on > >the public library computer, and I'll be able to help Ferdinand organize > >his information, and photos by Himself and a few by taken by me during my > >visit last fall. > > Be patient--I'm still stumbling around on my new Mac, getting used to > >updated software, a ROUND mouse, a tinier keyboard, etc., all adding up > >to a slightly different way of working. But I sure am having fun so > >far--and I'm looking forward to playing with Page Mill. Ferdinand's site > >is well worth helping into being. > > > >Warmest regards, > > > > > >Pam DeTray > >----------------------------------------------- > >FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com > >Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 11:39:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25099 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:39:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA25119; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:30:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.152]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA24953 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:29:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.18.3]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:31:33 +0000 Message-ID: <36D81E0C.4688@cwcom.net> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:32:12 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Vortices and blood-clots Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 770 I've just read a very interesting article in "New Scientist" (6 Feb, pp. 32-37), not about GM crops this time but relevant to the flowform thread. It seems that the cells forming the wall of blood vessels respond to turbulent flow by moving away, thus thinning the wall. The attempts by other cells to plug this flaw creates a rough surface on which cholesterol can build up. In conditions of smooth flow, the cells secrete enzymes and the precursor of nitric oxide, which inhibit the production of blood clots. Smoothly flowing blood thus protects against circulatory diseases. Researchers at Harvard Medical School and MIT found that all major blood vessels have a spiral shape which maintains a helical flow, especially on bends and junctions where turbulent flow would be most likely to occur - apparently this has not previously been recognised. A novel artificial heart being developed by ABIOMED, Boston, aims to control the problem of clotting by creating a vortex which maintains helical flow in the blood leaving it and thus eliminates the need for anti-clotting drugs. Yet again, vortices are seen to be life-enhancing. Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 12:17:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25545 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:17:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28276; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:08:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28026 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:06:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.8]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:08:20 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990227090301.008654d0@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:03:01 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad von Zirkwitz Subject: Re: Vortices and blood-clots In-Reply-To: <36D81E0C.4688@cwcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 771 Hi Tony, Our veins are to us as rivers are to the planet, and sap is to the trees and plants. Their always carrying nutrients, o2, co2, and magnetic energy through our organs amd to our extents, the tips of our fingers, toes, and head. This is why acupunture on the head, foot and hand is so effective. When our pipes (veins) are a little clogged then there is not enough momentum for the blood to flow freely to our ends and yo-yo back to the main valve, the heart, and consequently we develop these buildups and eventually blockages. If we were to do the math, adding up all the blood flow in our body, we would soon realize how impossible it would be for us to stand upright and pump all this blood through our body without the assistance of some vortical action to suck it along. I often am amazed at how it possible that we can fast for as long as we will to, provided we recharge our blood with good water. Sincerely, Conrad Tony wrote: >I've just read a very interesting article in "New Scientist" (6 Feb, pp. >32-37), not about GM crops this time but relevant to the flowform >thread. It seems that the cells forming the wall of blood vessels >respond to turbulent flow by moving away, thus thinning the wall. The >attempts by other cells to plug this flaw creates a rough surface on >which cholesterol can build up. In conditions of smooth flow, the cells >secrete enzymes and the precursor of nitric oxide, which inhibit the >production of blood clots. Smoothly flowing blood thus protects against >circulatory diseases. Researchers at Harvard Medical School and MIT >found that all major blood vessels have a spiral shape which maintains a >helical flow, especially on bends and junctions where turbulent flow >would be most likely to occur - apparently this has not previously been >recognised. A novel artificial heart being developed by ABIOMED, >Boston, aims to control the problem of clotting by creating a vortex >which maintains helical flow in the blood leaving it and thus eliminates >the need for anti-clotting drugs. Yet again, vortices are seen to be >life-enhancing. Tony N-S. > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 12:32:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25709 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:32:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA29630; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:23:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29476 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:22:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0201.direct.ca ([204.244.83.17] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GnTj-0007mr-00; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:24:40 -0800 Message-ID: <36D829D6.68BED619@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:22:31 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DeTray Pam , BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics , Truhponen Tarmo CC: "Paakkonen, Jukka & Aira" , "Hirschnitz, Michaela" Subject: OFF TOPIC: WORKLOAD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 772 Dear BD List & friends (this is my situation right now) Robert is in Europe. Thee right hand man Anna is in Finland Thee most right hand woman Thomas is in Edmonton Thee reliable helper Thomas Link in Germany Thee enlightened BD forester The WWOOFers are in Asia Thee funny multitude of helpers Michaela lives in Vancouver Thee smartest office de-coder Pam lives Challis US The ultimate computer whizz Snow if falling heavily Thee most reliable blanket The workload is the same Thee ingredient that makes life so worth living for. So, if you understand that message, please be patient if and when I am late with answering messages or work (or Web site problems). This situation (and perhaps the snow, too) will remain so until mid March. Regards Ferdinand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 12:53:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26015 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:53:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01354; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:44:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f155.hotmail.com [209.185.131.218]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01235 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:43:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 6636 invoked by uid 0); 27 Feb 1999 17:28:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990227172813.6635.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.74.2.149 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:28:13 PST X-Originating-IP: [206.74.2.149] From: "Connie Gilbert" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Fw: Avery's Lies About Organic Food Exposed in New York Times Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:28:13 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 773 I read the web site and found his email cgfi@rica.net Connie > > >>Is there no way to get this man's email address and to communicat with him? >>Ferdinand > > >>Intergalactic Garage wrote: >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Kai Siedenburg >>> To: casawg@igc.org >>> Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 9:18 AM >>> Subject: Avery's Lies About Organic Food Exposed in New York Times >>> > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 13:26:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26371 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:26:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA04090; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:17:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f207.hotmail.com [209.185.130.117]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA03882 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:15:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 361 invoked by uid 0); 27 Feb 1999 18:16:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19990227181638.360.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.74.2.149 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:16:37 PST X-Originating-IP: [206.74.2.149] From: "Connie Gilbert" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Being with COWS, and one's health Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:16:37 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 774 Your post makes want to get some cows. Oh my, making a pasture, fixing the barn, getting up at 4 to go milk them. See what you have done? Can I settle for goats? They are more suited to this hilly, rocky, piece of land. Blessings Connie > >This is absolutely so as long as the cows can express themselves >rhythmically. And this, in my opinion is an in-breathing and an >out-breathing. Here we have to following points: > >The milking at a specific time >The being fed time >The going onto the field time >The resting time >The being permitted to wander/move around time >The sleeping time >The being spoken to time >The mucking out time >The spraying BC compost time >The checking their health time (often happens during milking time) >The cleaning time (more for miling cows than beef cattle) > >Being around cows demands a certain (slow) pace (of life). A nervous >farmer, by observation, often has cows that produce less milk than a >slow, steady and low voiced farmer. Moving in the etheric and astral >field of a cow herd is a soothing experience that can strengthen once >health and a lot of joy and pride bubbles to the surface (in the owners >psyche i.e. heart). To lean onto a cows back or to pad the bull or to >sit for a moment on a bale of hay and to 'slurp in' that invisible >something that the cows emenate is one of the most healing medicine one >can think of - much more than what I experience in the horse stable >where the movements are quicker, the eyes much more (outwardly) >attentive and the digestive system rather nervous. I wrote about the >experience (last year) on sleeping on a cow in the field - what a >healing experience that it. United with nature, surrounded by mother >earth and the slow and rhythmical breathing with a steaming warmth that >beats any sauna hands down. That, in my opinion, is the ultimate healing >experience. Regards Ferdinand > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 14:46:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA27358 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:46:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12373; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:37:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12232 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:36:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem125.digisys.net [205.138.110.174]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA29028; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:38:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D849E9.BAA2EDAB@digisys.net> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:39:22 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" , Ashley Clements Subject: [Fwd: Short term work in US] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D3B0FE685BF52C93F84520BC" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 775 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D3B0FE685BF52C93F84520BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi BD-listers, Can anyone help? Pat http://www.simlyhealthfarms.com --------------D3B0FE685BF52C93F84520BC Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08747 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:35:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09569; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:35:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from axil.wave.co.nz (Axil.wave.co.nz [202.49.46.2]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09467 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:34:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from hp-auth-user (p52.hn1.wave.co.nz [203.96.192.52]) by axil.wave.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA13213 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 05:34:37 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990227053401.00699754@pop3.wave.co.nz> X-Sender: clements@pop3.wave.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 05:34:01 +1100 To: CSA-L@prairienet.org From: Ashley Clements Subject: Short term work in US Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi there, My wife is planing on coming back to the USA to be with her terminally ill father on Long Island, NY. I thought that seen as though she will be going why not all of us go (family of 4) We can make the trip feasible if I had some short term employment (June -??)while my wife can take the kids to be with her father during this time of his life. Ideally our location would be around NYS, CT, or PA. Although I am very experienced with grass based dairying (16 years) I am willing to look at anything. e.g Free house with a small income in return for setting up/designing of a grass based dairy or similar. Please contact us for more information Best Regards, Ash ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Visit a New Zealand pasture based dairy farm http://www.clements.co.nz/ International Toll-Free Ph/fax 1 800 538 5076 KENMOR SHEEP EARTAGS , Apex Water Valves, Hansen Fittings, NZ Woolen Socks, Peach Teat Nipples and Feeders Ash & Charlene Clements 168/1 Robson Road R D 10 Hamilton NEW ZEALAND International Toll-free Ph/Fax 1 800 538 5076 Ph/fax: 64 (7) 829 8274 email: clements@wave.co.nz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --------------D3B0FE685BF52C93F84520BC-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 15:03:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA27566 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 15:03:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA15124; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:55:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA14894 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:53:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem125.digisys.net [205.138.110.174]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03066 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:55:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D84DDE.924DB513@digisys.net> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:56:14 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Organic Trade Association Member Lists Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 776 I stumbled into this and found it interesting: http://www.ota.com/memlist.htm Pat http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 15:52:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28696 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 15:52:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA20602; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 15:43:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20474 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 15:42:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GqbH-0007hi-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:44:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36D858E0.5A5E262E@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:43:12 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Being with COWS, and one's health References: <19990227181638.360.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 777 Dear Connie, Yes, goats are a marvelous being. My friend has trained them to carry a bag (carrier bag) on their backs and she often goes up to the high mountains which are within a half an hour of here. There, she stays for days. My brother-in-law was farming for years in Ilanz, Switzerland and his goats would go high up, where the mountain goats were grazing AND would all come back in the evening to be milked. Cows would not go that high up as they could not find the quantity of grass they need. So, here we have quality vs. some quantity. Goats, as far as I am concerned, are easier to train and are marvelous pals. They have, of course, a different task to fulfill than cows. Goats can really become a nuisance in areas where there are small trees or where you want to regenerate a forest. (Same with sheep). I hear that the goat is the poor wo-man's cow. If you want to train a cow to pull a plow (and I still remember our neighbor plowing with a cow and a steer) you can do that easily - and they do take to the plow within 6 - 8 months. People are starting to drink more and more goat's milk because goats have not been tampered with as much as cows. The milk, however, is lacking of certain 'ingredients' which can make a child anemic. But goat's milk (and I had Saanen for years) is excellent IF and WHEN you drink the evening milk. Why? The morning milk often takes a goatish flavour when the goats have been kept inside the stable or are penned it. In fresh air (day) or well ventilated stables, morning goat's milk should not taste much different than evening's. Yes, you can take goats, but remember, goats do have totally different eating habits than cows and also need a different diet. Goats go for leaves, buds, fresh plants, herbs and very juicy stuff. Cows need larger quantities of an average good grass and are happy with small additions of what the goats prefer. You know, a goat's digestive system is much more rapid and nervous. The manure is a hot one and needs to be mixed with a lot of fiber. Regards Ferdinand Connie Gilbert wrote: > Your post makes want to get some cows. Oh my, making a pasture, fixing > the barn, getting up at 4 to go milk them. See what you have done? > Can I settle for goats? They are more suited to this hilly, rocky, piece > of land. > Blessings > Connie > > > > >This is absolutely so as long as the cows can express themselves > >rhythmically. And this, in my opinion is an in-breathing and an > >out-breathing. Here we have to following points: > > > >The milking at a specific time > >The being fed time > >The going onto the field time > >The resting time > >The being permitted to wander/move around time > >The sleeping time > >The being spoken to time > >The mucking out time > >The spraying BC compost time > >The checking their health time (often happens during milking time) > >The cleaning time (more for miling cows than beef cattle) > > > >Being around cows demands a certain (slow) pace (of life). A nervous > >farmer, by observation, often has cows that produce less milk than a > >slow, steady and low voiced farmer. Moving in the etheric and astral > >field of a cow herd is a soothing experience that can strengthen once > >health and a lot of joy and pride bubbles to the surface (in the owners > >psyche i.e. heart). To lean onto a cows back or to pad the bull or to > >sit for a moment on a bale of hay and to 'slurp in' that invisible > >something that the cows emenate is one of the most healing medicine one > >can think of - much more than what I experience in the horse stable > >where the movements are quicker, the eyes much more (outwardly) > >attentive and the digestive system rather nervous. I wrote about the > >experience (last year) on sleeping on a cow in the field - what a > >healing experience that it. United with nature, surrounded by mother > >earth and the slow and rhythmical breathing with a steaming warmth that > >beats any sauna hands down. That, in my opinion, is the ultimate > healing > >experience. Regards Ferdinand > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 21:12:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA02381 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:12:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA17000; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:02:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24444 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:09:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Gr1X-0000s3-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:11:48 -0800 Message-ID: <36D85F3C.94FDEB6E@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:10:21 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Maaaasive Snow fall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 778 Folks, If I disappear for a few days (from your screen) it's because we have snow falling like never before. Trees cannot take the load any longer and snap with gunshot like noise. Just about 1000' above they have now 21 feet, (yes) where they usually get 10' and it may well be that we go 'under', too. The light went off a few minutes ago (and our emergency unit went on) because trees are starting to hit the power lines. So, it ain't ill will, it's those many small little non-violent beings that softly fall and tumble. All the best- t'is a fine test. Regards Ferdinand -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 21:13:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA02411 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA17358; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:04:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.javanet.com (mail1.javanet.com [205.219.162.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25104 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:14:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from 209.150.32.208 (armory-hiper1206.javanet.com [209.150.32.208]) by mail1.javanet.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA09113 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:16:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36D86256.76FD@javanet.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:23:39 -0500 From: Christian Elwell Organization: South River Miso Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-NSCP (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' References: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> <36D36BED.42D4@javanet.com> <36D7AA01.38672526@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 779 Thank you Ferdinand; I will await patiently and in any case will be away from the list March 5th -20th. Best wishes, Christian From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Feb 27 21:14:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA02448 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:14:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA17625; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:05:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25831 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:20:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GrBg-0005M8-00; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:22:17 -0800 Message-ID: <36D861B1.14189981@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:20:49 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martha Wells CC: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Re: Being with GOATS, and one's health References: <01BE6262.C9541340@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 780 Martha, I thought rabbit and goat manure are hot? i.e. contain a lot of nitrogen and can really heat up. Am I wrong in this assumption? thanks and regards Ferdinand Martha Wells wrote: > If you are going to feed goat milk to newborns, they need the addition of > folic acid. But, more people can tolerate goat milk who otherwise thought > they were totally lactose intolerant. Quite a few reasons why, but > basically it's the make up of goat milk vs cow milk, and the fact that it's > naturally homogenized. When mechanical homogenization takes place, it > actually creates a form of acidity that irritates many peoples' digestive > systems. It takes up to 4 hours to digest homogenized cow milk vs about 30 > minutes in the raw form. And a lot can go wrong with milk incubating away > in the intestinal tract for that long at human body temperature. (It's a > wonder more folk aren't made sick from drinking store milk.) In general, no > matter what species you choose as your dairy animal, make sure the animal > and her environment are clean and healthy and choose raw or at least, > pasteurize it yourself using the old kettle process, not mechanical means. > But the manure of goats is much like rabbits, not hot. You could plant > directly in it and the plants won't get burned. I like the manure over cow > manure mostly because it's weed free. The digestive system of goats breaks > down most weed seeds. Llama is even better because they don't poop > indescriminately. They have nice piles for their restroom facilities and > don't get it mingled with the bedding straw, so you don't have those seeds > to deal with either. If you're planting a hot frame and need a hot manure, > stick with horse, it's the best to heat up a bed. > And, if you are going to raise goats for meat stock, the calorie and > saturated fat content is lower than most fish. (WAY lower than lamb or beef > or pork, and much less than poultry.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ferdinand Vondruska [SMTP:ferdy@direct.ca] > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 1999 2:43 PM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: Being with COWS, and one's health > > Dear Connie, > Yes, goats are a marvelous being. My friend has trained them to carry a bag > (carrier bag) on their backs and she often goes up to the high mountains > which are within a half an hour of here. There, she stays for days. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 00:11:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA04133 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:11:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA00411; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:02:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18668 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:18:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep3-163-114.intrepid.net [209.190.163.114]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00822 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:20:53 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D861B1.14189981@direct.ca> References: <01BE6262.C9541340@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:22:22 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Being with GOATS, and one's health Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 781 Martha - Do you have any trouble composting goat or llama manure? We've noticed that it tends to not breakdown in our piles. I'm suspecting someone is using conventional wormer on the llamas and goats (many parents from the children's school spend time with the animals), but from what you say, maybe the problem is my composting methods (ie maybe I need to mix some horse manure with the goat/llama manures. Say what?? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 00:12:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA04143 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:12:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA00496; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:02:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19506 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:30:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep2-163-83.intrepid.net [209.190.163.83]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02558 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:32:51 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:34:01 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: NTE: Chitinase Enhanced Plants Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 782 >From the USDA: NEW PLANTS GIVE PESTS A STOMACHACHE -- Plants designed to give insects a stomachache may become an alternative to methyl bromide. This chemical pesticide, targeted as an ozone depletor, is now closely regulated and is scheduled to be phased out in 2005. The ban could mean about $1.5 billion in agricultural losses each year. To create plants that more effectively fend off damaging insects, fungi and nematodes, Agricultural Research Service and Kansas State University researchers have added an insect enzyme to create insect-resistant transgenic tobacco and rice. The enzyme--chitinase--causes digestive problems for insects that ingest it. Chitinase puts a "chink in the armor" of the insect's stomach by causing chitinous membranes to disintegrate. Without this membrane, insects are helplessly vulnerable to microbial infections. In lab studies, the scientists found that the genetically engineered plants significantly suppressed the growth of feeding insect larvae. Contact: Karl Kramer (785) 776-2711. =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 00:12:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA04151 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:12:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA00585; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:03:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23998 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:29:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0111.direct.ca ([204.244.83.11] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10GwxE-0000MH-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:31:45 -0800 Message-ID: <36D8B835.F2B13ED7@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:29:57 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' References: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> <36D36BED.42D4@javanet.com> <36D7AA01.38672526@direct.ca> <36D86256.76FD@javanet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 783 Christian, Here, it is not only snowing but snowing email messages, too. Please give me a kick in about 4 weeks. I will discuss this with the forester Thomas. Regards. Ferdinand Christian Elwell wrote: > Thank you Ferdinand; I will await patiently and in any case will be away > from the list March 5th -20th. Best wishes, Christian -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow (being) I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 00:12:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA04159 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:12:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA00330; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:02:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18281 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:14:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep3-163-114.intrepid.net [209.190.163.114]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00146 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:16:15 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D8114C.4835233C@direct.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:11:47 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Re: Ferdinand's web site Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 784 > And for >that reason, I thought, that perhaps someone could manage a BDNOW Web site >into >which pictures could be pasted (once per week) that could be seen by the >several >hundred on this list. DEAR FERDINAND: This we have had since the inception of BD NOW! and I offered it to you again yesterday. This is the way we work with attachments here. Write to me, tell me what you have, we work on the size so it is not resource hogging and then I'll post it to the web. I've done this for YOU before (keyline plow?) If you have www space, you have a webserver. If you have a webserver, all you need to do is give people the name and location (URL) of your picture and they can view it with their browser. Low overhead for you (or any list member), low overhead for the reader. Before you invest to much of anything into this, of course, realize that most people can't afford the overhead of a web browser. 300+ people on this list and TWO people have given me feedback on the truly remarkable Peter Tompkins interview which I posted recently. Thanks -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 03:11:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA06752 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 03:11:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA10253; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 03:01:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA06067 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 01:28:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.229]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990228063055.MUVZ682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:30:55 +1300 Message-ID: <36D8E2E6.1661@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:32:06 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Study:L3:2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 785 Due to having a extremely minialsitic understanding of chemistry I have always wondered. At what point does nitrogen become involved in organic chemistry? I understand alcohols, sugars, carbohydrates and fats generally do not contain nitrogen. I understand they start to occur in the formation of amino acids and proteins. If this is so then in CHO etc what is happening with the nitrogens abilty to drag the oxygen along behind it??? Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 07:25:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA08724 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:25:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA19428; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:15:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from avatar.lisp.com.au (mail.lisp.com.au [203.21.133.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA19371 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:14:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:14:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902281214.HAA19371@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 25058 invoked from network); 28 Feb 1999 12:14:28 -0000 Received: from asy1-ppp0.cowra.lisp.com.au (HELO lizard) (203.34.200.164) by mail.lisp.com.au with SMTP; 28 Feb 1999 12:14:27 -0000 X-Sender: statham@mail.lisp.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Rosnay Subject: change address Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 786 Dear Allan Please redirect all my BDNOW messages to: stathams@lisp.com.au Thankyou, Sam ============================ Rosnay Canowindra 2804 Email: statham@lisp.com.au ============================ From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 07:26:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA08736 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:26:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA19539; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:18:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA19402 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:15:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-7.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.39]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id EAA08081 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 04:17:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902281217.EAA08081@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 04:43:50 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Waterglass for Tree Paste? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 787 Listfolk: We're about to apply tree paste here and curious about waterglass, an ingredient mentioned by Ferdinand. My dictionary says it's sodium silicate. Sources? Where do you commonly find this stuff? Only other mention I recall of waterglass is as a preservative for eggs... Woody Aurora Farm From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 07:35:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA08791 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:35:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA19771; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:27:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA19665 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:24:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep1-163-29.intrepid.net [209.190.163.29]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24373 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:26:17 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902281214.HAA19371@envirolink.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:26:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: change address Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 788 Sam - Please unsubscribe from the 'old address' as directed below and resubscribe from the new address. Thanks -Allan >Dear Allan > >Please redirect all my BDNOW messages to: > >stathams@lisp.com.au > >Thankyou, > >Sam > >============================ > >Rosnay >Canowindra 2804 >Email: statham@lisp.com.au >============================ =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 07:47:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA08831 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20092; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:38:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20048 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:38:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep1-163-29.intrepid.net [209.190.163.29]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25584 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:40:26 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:29:30 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: camelid manures and your interview Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 789 Our manures compost out readily enough. But I tend to leave the llamalizer alone in it's own pile, taking the 'bottom of the stack' that has already broken out of pellet form to use in the compost. That could be a reason I'm not seeing a problem. Llama and goat 'berries' that are still in fresh pellets, that have air dried somewhat, are going to have to reconstitute (soften) before they can break apart. Could you try soaking the piles before you add them to the compost pits? Or making a slurry instead of adding it dry, maybe. My goat manure is always mixed with it's bedding straw and tends to turn to adobe before I can get it broken up and sent to the compost. Because the llamas are more fastidious and selective about pooping consistently in one spot, I don't have this problem with their manure. I suspect, too, you're right and it could be the chemicals. I don't know what kind of half-life worm medicines have but I suspect they last a lot longer than people realize. If you're going to use horse in with the other manures, you're going to have even more of a problem with chemicals unless they're your own or you know the methods of the owners. And, I wanted to tell you I did go to the site and read your interview with Peter Tomkins. I hadn't realized he'd written so many 'Secrets Life Of...' and was surprised. The interview was excellent, and I really liked the comments you made about the BD NOW group. The fact that he was thinking about joining up was rather exciting. I think most people are like myself. We don't think to comment back to the author of the site that we enjoyed the information and article, tho we do often explore each other's web pages. -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage [SMTP:igg@igg.com] Sent: Saturday, February 27, 1999 8:22 PM To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Being with GOATS, and one's health Martha - Do you have any trouble composting goat or llama manure? We've noticed that it tends to not breakdown in our piles. I'm suspecting someone is using conventional wormer on the llamas and goats (many parents from the children's school spend time with the animals), but from what you say, maybe the problem is my composting methods (ie maybe I need to mix some horse manure with the goat/llama manures. Say what?? >From pagemill@blueworld.com Sun Feb 28 06:41:20 1999 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 07:47:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA08839 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:47:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20126; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:39:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20053 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:38:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep1-163-29.intrepid.net [209.190.163.29]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25591 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:40:30 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BE62DC.E70452E0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:41:57 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: camelid manures and your interview Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 790 >And, I wanted to tell you I did go to the site and read your interview with >Peter Tomkins. I hadn't realized he'd written so many 'Secrets Life Of...' >and was surprised. The interview was excellent, and I really liked the >comments you made about the BD NOW group. The fact that he was thinking >about joining up was rather exciting. I think most people are like myself. >We don't think to comment back to the author of the site that we enjoyed >the information and article, tho we do often explore each other's web >pages. hmmm, I'm really at a loss to understand the rationale of your last sentence, not that you are wrong, but that it is so outside of my own expectations. There are DAYS of work in that page and it's chock-full 'o unique information. From my perspective, the only currency one has to invest towards some further efforts by the author would be to express appreciation or at least acknowledgement of the work so far. Or, as I've said before: if we want to see our special interests on the web, we have to make some effort to support the people who have found the time to put stuff out there. Or in simpler terms: eating a meal, be it for stomach or mind or spirit without thanking the host seems pretty 'rude' at best. What better can we hope for than the companionship of minds with similar values? I learned a long time ago that one has to be self-actualized to do this work, so that's not the problem. Understanding where people are coming from, however, from remarks like those above, is something I can't quite get my mind around. I know that some people will rationlize: "Oh, he does this to sell those books." While, in reality, our total booksales through BD Now! for this YEAR is about $18.00 gross with a dividend from AMAZON of about $1.70. The links are there more for helping readers to access information, to help Mr. Tompkins sell some books (his sales aren't that hot either, in case you didn't know!) and, as noted above, making people aware that Mr. Tompkins has explored a v. wide range of information in his long career. Thanks, Martha, for finding the time to read the interview. Later -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 08:02:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA08928 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:02:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20588; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:53:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20553 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:53:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep1-163-29.intrepid.net [209.190.163.29]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26939 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:55:11 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:56:46 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Hugh Lovel at RDI RS College Event Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 791 Dear BD Now! member - FYI I've just fixed the link from the BD Now! main menu to the 'slideshow' of Hugh Lovel at RSC. As you are probably already aware, there is a nice set of tapes available from this event, which included NZ BD educator, Peter Proctor. Thanks -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 08:08:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA08977 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:08:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20844; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:59:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA20664 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:56:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <32895-714>; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:58:11 -0400 Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:58:11 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: biodynamics Subject: OFF: Anti-microbe Household Sponges (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01BE5FFD.4EB67EA0" Content-ID: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 792 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BE5FFD.4EB67EA0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Content-ID: Hi All; This came from my homeopathy list, and I thought I would pass it on to you. Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia On the issue of consumer protection and hazardous warnings, here's a new one.. Those yellow sponges with the green plastic fibers on the back for scrubbing pots-"Pot Scrubbers"-should be kept far away from our birds, fish, reptiles, cats and dogs, hamsters and whatevers. Proctor & Gamble, in its continuing search to make America look clean and smell great, has a new "improved" version of the sponge on the market that kills odor-causing fungi that get in the sponge after a few uses. They make a big deal out of this innovation on the outside packaging. A friend of of a friend of mine used one of these sponges to clean the glass on a 200-gallon aquarium. The abrasive backs are good for removing algae and smutz that collect on the inside of the tank. He refilled the tank and after the water had time to condition and rid itself of chlorine, he reintroduced his tropical fish collection of some 30 fish. Within five hours of putting the fish back in the tank, they were all dead! Some began to die after only 30 minutes. He removed the survivors to another tank but they all died. Retracing his steps to clean the tank, the only thing that was different was using that new kind of sponge-he'd used the regular old Pot Scrubbers for years. Lo and behold I discovered on the back of the packaging in about the finest print you could put on plastic a description of the fungicide (Triclosan) in the sponge and the warning in tiny bold-face letters, "Not for use in aquariums. Keep away from other pets." Thanks for the warning, Proctor & Gamble. It seems the fungicide is a derivative of the systemic pesticide-herbicide, 2-4-D, more popularly known as Agent Orange, the chemical we sprayed all over Southeast Asian during the Vietnam War that many veterans and war refugees say did them permanent damage to their lungs and nervous systems. The package warning goes on to say they fungicide cannot be washed from the sponge even if it is placed in the dishwasher (in which case Agent Orange is now all over your dishes and drinking glasses). And, if you think it's there to kill disease-causing bacteria like Salmonella from contaminated chicken meat, think again-it's not an effective enough bactericide to kill those kind of bugs. By the way, the same chemical in the sponge (Triclosan),is used now in many of those popular anti-bacterial, anti-viral disinfectant liquid soaps (Ultra-dawn Antibacterial dishwashing soap) and hand cleaners that are flooding the market. . If you are interested in looking at the research, you can go to Quantex Laboratories on line at http://www.quantexlabs.com/page0004.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BE5FFD.4EB67EA0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 08:37:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA09147 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:37:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA21723; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:29:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA21691 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:28:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep1-163-29.intrepid.net [209.190.163.29]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA30618 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:30:48 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:32:24 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: BD Now! Seedlist 1.2 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 793 The updated BD Now! Seedlist is now at http://www.igg.com/bdnow/seedlist. (Be patient, this well formatted sheet is a slow download!) Not much commentary added by BD Now! members as far as I can tell!! Please contribute what information you can to this list!! Remember: if we don't co-evolve, we're not going to evolve at all in this lifetime! Remember: please post your additions to BD Now! so that seedlist manager Marlin Press can incorporate them into the next version of the BD Now! Seedlist!! Thanks! -Allan Balliett webmaster BD Now! igg@igg.com =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 08:55:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA09242 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:55:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA22273; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:46:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA22164 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:44:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep1-163-29.intrepid.net [209.190.163.29]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA32454 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:46:32 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:48:06 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OOPS!! Re: BD Now! Seedlist 1.2 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 794 The correct URL is: http://www.igg.com/bdnow/seedlist.html (thanks to Julie M. for this correction!) -Allan >The updated BD Now! Seedlist is now at http://www.igg.com/bdnow/seedlist. >(Be patient, this well formatted sheet is a slow download!) > >Not much commentary added by BD Now! members as far as I can tell!! Please >contribute what information you can to this list!! Remember: if we don't >co-evolve, we're not going to evolve at all in this lifetime! > >Remember: please post your additions to BD Now! so that seedlist manager >Marlin Press can incorporate them into the next version of the BD Now! >Seedlist!! > >Thanks! > >-Allan Balliett >webmaster >BD Now! >igg@igg.com > > > >=========================================================================== > >BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, >dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food >that promotes human development. > >To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > >listproc@envirolink.org > >In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > >subscribe bdnow > >If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > >a message to listproc@envirolink.org > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 08:55:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA09250 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:55:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA22315; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:46:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA22195 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:45:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.36]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:47:50 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:47:37 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: February 27, 1999 - March 05, 1999 Message-ID: <47746A9C7EB9117A85256726004BC099.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id IAA22196 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 795 Calendar of the Soul [February 27, 1999 - March 05, 1999] Forty-seventh Week (February 23-March 1) There will arise out of the world's great womb, Quickening the senses' life, the joy of growth. Now may it find my strength of thought Well armed by powers devine Which strongly live within my being. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ Es will erstehen aus dem Weltenschosse, Den Sinnenschein erquickend, Werdelust. Sie finde meines Denkens Kraft Gerüstet durch die Gotteskräfte, Die kräftig mir im Innern leben. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+47 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 09:01:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA09276 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:01:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA22561; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:52:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA22512 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:52:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.36]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:54:42 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:54:28 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Seeds Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 796 (I didn't see this come in last night...forgive me if it double posts) Someone on the OGL was kind enough to post the following info.I noticed that the phone # for Seed Savers Exchange is not on the webpage, or rather is incomplete. --------------------------------------------------------------- <; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:12:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA22784; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:04:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22739 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:02:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.36]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:05:09 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:04:55 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Seedlist Message-ID: <482FEEA373FEBA2085256726004D3685.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 797 I've been in touch with Heirloom Seeds for a little more info. Here's their reply: >If you would like to list us, that is fine with me. I noticed on the site that an incorrect phone number was given for our business. Our phone number is: (412) 384-0852 Thank you, Tom Hauch Heirloom Seeds mail@heirloomseeds.com >*None of our seeds are treated. >*Fastest service in the business. >* All the varieties of seeds we sell are open pollinated (non-hybrid). >* Quality seeds at low prices. Low handling charge. Free shipping. >* Selection of gardening books for the beginner or experienced gardener. >* A variety of garden supplies and non-toxic products for insect problems. >*(They are not certified organic) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 09:27:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA09435 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:27:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA23169; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:19:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23059 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:16:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-139.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.139]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA16763 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:18:21 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36D9509A.52DC@ipa.net> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:20:10 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Water Stirring: Discoveries in Bio-Dynamic Science Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 798 Steve Diver wrote: >According to Schauberger, as the clay-treated water evaporated it >left fine crystals which carried a negative charge. These crystals >attracted rays from all directions. After some further >technical explanations is comes down to this: the soil surface >remains moist and cool, even during drier times, and thus >increased yields of 30% are observed in association with >'clay singing.' Rebecca Bryant, freelance writer from another list, replies: Just reading these emails in detail. Fascinating. Reminds me of an article on homeopathy I read in the Sept/Oct. 1998 Mother Jones. In unrelated research, Shui-Yin Lo, a chemist at the California Instit. of Technology, created extremely dilute solutions. Training an electron microscope on them, he discovered that in some cases the water contained bizarre ice crystals that didn't behave anything like the stuff that comes from the freezer. This strange new type of ice, which forms in solutions at temps well above freezing, gives off a unique electrical field. Lo calls these crystals "IE"--ice with an electrical field. Love, Rebecca From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 10:29:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA09829 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:29:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA27073; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:21:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from alternatives.com ([204.244.88.165]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA26998 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:20:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from georgiah (unverified [204.244.111.27]) by alternatives.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:22:23 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990228071707.008843e0@mail.alternatives.com> X-Sender: conrad@mail.alternatives.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:17:07 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Conrad von Zirkwitz Subject: following the water thread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 799 >From: Martha Wells >To: "'Conrad von Zirkwitz'" >Subject: following the water thread >Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:09:00 > >What about mature water that is not a moving body? I have been following >this thread and it occurs to me I have several sources of mature water. We >have 3 water wells but only one of them has a pump on it. One is a deep >well, tapping into an aquifer at about 330 ft, but the other shallow well >is probably tapped into it's own collection pool. If I read your post >correctly, I'd have to run the current working water (shallow) sys through >the old water to bind with it? come to think of it, is all well water 'old >water' unless it's utilizing an actual aquifer source? >Is there more information on this somewhere on the 'net'? How could we best >utilize this water source? (Other than drinking it and feeding it to the >plants and animals that feed ourselves, obviously. Which, we already do >anyhow.) >thanks, martha (who is still being set to no-post), otherwise, I'd be >asking on the usegroup. > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 12:50:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11569 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:50:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11123; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:41:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10846 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:38:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-14.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.46]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id JAA08825 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:40:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902281740.JAA08825@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:26:26 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Cow Tonic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 800 Listfolk: It's the last day of that "nasty little month," as my mentor in the art of being a desert rat used to say. For two weeks now we've been feeding our two cows, the calf, and the bull a little something extra to help them through the late winter doldrums before the first grass appears. We'll continue this through March, a kind of a Spring tonic. Two parts grain [cracked, wheat, oats, corn] One part wheat bran One tenth part or less [from a shaker-topped jar] of a mix of roasted garlic, ground up, agnihotra ash, Azomite, Celtin sea salt A big squirt of cider vinegar. Anyone else have a Cow Tonic formula? Woody Aurora Farm From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 12:50:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11577 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:50:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11169; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:41:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10904 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:38:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.36]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:41:29 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:41:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: OFF: Small Biz in Spare Bedroom Takes Part of Amazon.com's Market! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 801 The New York Times: 02/26/1999 Thomas I. Friedman Testifying before Congress Tuesday, Alan Greenspan wouldn't exactly come out and say that there was a little irrational exuberance behind some of the Internet stocks, but he said these share prices had reached levels that gave him "concerns." Well, if you really want to be "concerned" about the levels of some of these profitless Internet stocks, such as Amazon.com, you should pay less attention to Mr. Greenspan and more attention to what's going on in a small house in Cedar Falls, Iowa. There, a single Iowa family, headed by Lyle Bowlin, is re-creating Amazon.com in a spare bedroom. I tell you this not because they're an immediate threat to Amazon.com, but to underscore just how easy it is to compete against Amazon.com, and why therefore I'm dubious that Amazon and many other Internet retailers will ever generate the huge profits that their stock prices suggest. Lyle Bowlin is the director of the Small Business Development Center at the University of Northern Iowa. He is also a book lover. But having grown up in small Iowa towns, he has always regretted that he never had access to a good independent bookstore, with lots of titles. When the Internet and Amazon.com came along, said Mr. Bowlin, "I realized that in my spare time I could create a virtual independent bookstore." So first he set up a commercial Web site -- www.positively-you.com. Then he contacted the very same book wholesalers that Amazon.com uses and discovered something interesting -- that to get virtually the same volume discounts that Amazon.com gets, all he needed to do was order five copies of any particular book. The other accouterments were just as cheap: He pays an Internet service provider, ACES, $30 a month to house his very colorful Web site, and $30 a month to Americart to enable people to charge books on their credit cards over a secure server line. He pays his bank $50 a month to manage the credit card transactions, and has $40 a month printing costs, largely for his own monthly book newsletter. "I have no employees," says Mr. Bowlin. "My daughter does the accounting, I maintain the Web site and my wife does the shipping. Altogether, I only need to generate $150 a month in profits to cover all my expenses, and the rest is cream." Once he was set up for business, Mr. Bowlin just spread the word among his neighbors, colleagues and friends that not only could he offer them everything Amazon.com did, but he could do it cheaper and make a profit from day one. He now has customers from 23 states and Canada. It is funny to go to his Web site and see it offering "Millions Of Books At Great Prices," knowing that it is all being done out of his spare bedroom -- as a hobby! Here's the deal: Amazon.com offers "The Testament," by John Grisham, for 30 percent off retail ($19.57), plus $3.95 shipping and handling. Mr. Bowlin sells it for 35 percent off ($18.17) and $2.75 shipping and handling -- $2.60 less. How? Like Amazon, Mr. Bowlin buys "The Testament" from the wholesaler for 44 percent off retail, but since he has no overhead or advertising budget he can sell it for 35 percent off. He can deliver the book through the U.S. Postal Service within three days for only $1.63, so he makes $1.12 more on shipping for each sale. Total profit: $3.65 per book. Plus, says Mr. Bowlin, "when you charge a book, I collect your money within a few days from Visa, but I don't have to pay my wholesaler for that book for 30 days, so I have a free loan which I earn interest on -- just like Amazon." Because his profit margins are razor-thin, Mr. Bowlin, like Amazon, needs repeat buyers. Amazon gets them by offering useful information about books. Mr. Bowlin does it by offering any government-certified nonprofit organization a donation of 10 percent of the purchase price of any book that any nonprofit or its members buy through him. So the next time your broker tells you that this or that Internet retailing stock is actually worth some crazy multiples, just think for a moment about how many Lyle Bowlins there already are out there, and how many more there will be, to eat away at the profit margins of whatever Internet retailer you can imagine. It only costs them $150 a month and they can do it as a hobby! Or think about it like this: For about the cost of one share of Amazon.com, you can be Amazon.com. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 12:52:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11607 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:52:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11363; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:43:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11262 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:43:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HAHC-0002Vh-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:45:15 -0800 Message-ID: <36D98019.6C6F3451@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:42:50 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Re: Ferdinand's web site References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 802 Many thanks for your help. Allan. Pam and I will work this out and I am sure in about four weeks we will be up and running. At this time, I am truly shorthanded. Just got a load of BD Preparation orders which have to get out, too. So: Bye Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > > And for > >that reason, I thought, that perhaps someone could manage a BDNOW Web site > >into > >which pictures could be pasted (once per week) that could be seen by the > >several > >hundred on this list. > > DEAR FERDINAND: > > This we have had since the inception of BD NOW! and I offered it to you > again yesterday. This is the way we work with attachments here. Write to > me, tell me what you have, we work on the size so it is not resource > hogging and then I'll post it to the web. I've done this for YOU before > (keyline plow?) > > If you have www space, you have a webserver. If you have a webserver, all > you need to do is give people the name and location (URL) of your picture > and they can view it with their browser. Low overhead for you (or any list > member), low overhead for the reader. > > Before you invest to much of anything into this, of course, realize that > most people can't afford the overhead of a web browser. 300+ people on this > list and TWO people have given me feedback on the truly remarkable Peter > Tompkins interview which I posted recently. > > Thanks > > -Allan -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow around the world, I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 13:01:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA11718 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:01:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA12309; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:52:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11990 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:49:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HANZ-0007iK-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:51:49 -0800 Message-ID: <36D981A3.D75F6D02@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:49:24 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Being with GOATS, and one's health & decomposing their manure References: <01BE6262.C9541340@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 803 Most manures that are from Llamas, Goats, Rabbits etc. are rather difficult to break down in a first go. They tend to heat up rapidly and dry out (also a lot of mildew is forming around the pellets!). Make sure that you mix in lots of fiber (straw, hay, leaves etc.) but do not forget to water the pile (and in dry areas OFTEN!). Too little water is much more a problem than too much, when making a compost of any kind. Regards Ferdinand PS and the dewormers are real pain in the compost......! DO NOT USE MANURE IF YOU HAVE DEWORMED THE GOATS, RABBITS, SHEEP OR HORSES. Deposit those droppings somewhere else. Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Martha - Do you have any trouble composting goat or llama manure? We've > noticed that it tends to not breakdown in our piles. I'm suspecting someone > is using conventional wormer on the llamas and goats (many parents from the > children's school spend time with the animals), but from what you say, > maybe the problem is my composting methods (ie maybe I need to mix some > horse manure with the goat/llama manures. > > Say what?? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow around the world, I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 13:07:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA11793 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA13029; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:58:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12875 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:57:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HAUr-0002xW-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:59:21 -0800 Message-ID: <36D98367.F2AEE7DA@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:56:55 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Waterglass for Tree Paste? References: <199902281217.EAA08081@ns2.vphos.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 804 Woody, that is absolutely correct. It is a preservative for eggs. And it has that wonderful ability to really seal off the trunk so that no fungi or other stuff gets into it. Mind you, the tree can easily breath and will crack the coat within a few weeks or so. But in addition, waterglass keeps the mix together so that it cannot be washed off so easily. One year I tried sand (silica sand) and I was rather depressed because the sand was washed away from the trunk within a week (by the rain). One more thing: You guys are farther ahead with your work than we here on the Coast. Snow, sleet, storms, rain, and half a forest that is bent over like a bowing community of Ostriches...... Hope they can get up again. Regards Ferdinand Woody Wodraska wrote: > Listfolk: > > We're about to apply tree paste here and curious about waterglass, an > ingredient mentioned by Ferdinand. My dictionary says it's sodium silicate. > Sources? Where do you commonly find this stuff? Only other mention I > recall of waterglass is as a preservative for eggs... > > Woody > Aurora Farm -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow around the world, I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 13:13:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA11863 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:13:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA13767; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:04:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13487 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:02:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HAZa-0002Nr-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:04:14 -0800 Message-ID: <36D9848B.AAB7FF44@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:01:47 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: camelid manures and your interview References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 805 Dear? I often recommend that Barrel Compost be sprayed in a field where many goats or other animals are being kept - this will set the stage for an easier breaking down in the compost. The BC will infiltrate the 'goat berries' when they are still wet and fresh. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Our manures compost out readily enough. But I tend to leave the llamalizer > alone in it's own pile, taking the 'bottom of the stack' that has already > broken out of pellet form to use in the compost. That could be a reason I'm > not seeing a problem. Llama and goat 'berries' that are still in fresh > pellets, that have air dried somewhat, are going to have to reconstitute > (soften) before they can break apart. Could you try soaking the piles > before you add them to the compost pits? Or making a slurry instead of > adding it dry, maybe. > My goat manure is always mixed with it's bedding straw and tends to turn to > adobe before I can get it broken up and sent to the compost. > Because the llamas are more fastidious and selective about pooping > consistently in one spot, I don't have this problem with their manure. > I suspect, too, you're right and it could be the chemicals. I don't know > what kind of half-life worm medicines have but I suspect they last a lot > longer than people realize. > If you're going to use horse in with the other manures, you're going to > have even more of a problem with chemicals unless they're your own or you > know the methods of the owners. > > And, I wanted to tell you I did go to the site and read your interview with > Peter Tomkins. I hadn't realized he'd written so many 'Secrets Life Of...' > and was surprised. The interview was excellent, and I really liked the > comments you made about the BD NOW group. The fact that he was thinking > about joining up was rather exciting. I think most people are like myself. > We don't think to comment back to the author of the site that we enjoyed > the information and article, tho we do often explore each other's web > pages. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Intergalactic Garage [SMTP:igg@igg.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 1999 8:22 PM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: Being with GOATS, and one's health > > Martha - Do you have any trouble composting goat or llama manure? We've > noticed that it tends to not breakdown in our piles. I'm suspecting someone > is using conventional wormer on the llamas and goats (many parents from the > children's school spend time with the animals), but from what you say, > maybe the problem is my composting methods (ie maybe I need to mix some > horse manure with the goat/llama manures. > > Say what?? > > >From pagemill@blueworld.com Sun Feb 28 06:41:20 1999 -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow around the world, I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 13:42:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12222 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:42:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16881; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:34:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA16593 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:31:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HB1e-0001fo-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:33:15 -0800 Message-ID: <36D98B53.D99B6602@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:30:43 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD Now! Seedlist 1.2 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 806 Just visited SEEDLIST now. What a list! Congratulation, Allan. I will info my manager when he is back. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > The updated BD Now! Seedlist is now at http://www.igg.com/bdnow/seedlist. > (Be patient, this well formatted sheet is a slow download!) > > Not much commentary added by BD Now! members as far as I can tell!! Please > contribute what information you can to this list!! Remember: if we don't > co-evolve, we're not going to evolve at all in this lifetime! > > Remember: please post your additions to BD Now! so that seedlist manager > Marlin Press can incorporate them into the next version of the BD Now! > Seedlist!! > > Thanks! > > -Allan Balliett > webmaster > BD Now! > igg@igg.com > > =========================================================================== > > BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, > dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food > that promotes human development. > > To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to > > listproc@envirolink.org > > In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): > > subscribe bdnow > > If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com > > a message to listproc@envirolink.org > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cows around the world, I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 13:57:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12528 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:57:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA18521; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:49:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18401 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:48:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp28.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.128]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA13504 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:48:14 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <00fa01be634a$cf5a8ba0$804b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Cow Tonic Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:47:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 807 This is a really nice tonic Woody! Although not a Spring tonic, here's one that I think is excellent for a sick cow, dealing with an infection, fever or other problem that may crop up anytime... We recently had a very wonderful cow get really sick with a case of mastitis. Frankly I was afraid she was going to die...had an outrageously high temperature & we've heard cows can die from this. Thanks to Allan putting me in touch with Jerry Brunetti, we got her on a very HOT tonic, while we waited for some additional treatments to arrive. The recipe was: 8 oz. Molasses 8 oz. Vinegar 3 oz Brandy (or whiskey) garlic 1oz cayenne pepper qtr oz Ginger qtr oz horse radish 1/4 oz You have to add enough water so you can pour it down her throat, and after the first few times, she will slobber & cough (and I swear steam comes out of her ears...just like in the cartoons) But I am convinced that it helped her fight off the infection that had invaded her entire system. And she also started to get pretty tame about taking it after the first few times (I don't know, maybe she started to enjoy it) Also, the barn smelled something like Bloody Marys! Maybe Allan remembers exactly how this concoction worked...I don't remember why...just that it did. Allan? Thanks for sharing your pre-Spring tonic, Woody. What's Azomite? Julie M. -----Original Message----- From: Woody Wodraska To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 11:41 AM Subject: Cow Tonic >Listfolk: > >It's the last day of that "nasty little month," as my mentor in the art of >being a desert rat used to say. For two weeks now we've been feeding our >two cows, the calf, and the bull a little something extra to help them >through the late winter doldrums before the first grass appears. We'll >continue this through March, a kind of a Spring tonic. > >Two parts grain [cracked, wheat, oats, corn] >One part wheat bran >One tenth part or less [from a shaker-topped jar] of a mix of roasted >garlic, ground up, agnihotra ash, Azomite, Celtin sea salt >A big squirt of cider vinegar. > >Anyone else have a Cow Tonic formula? > >Woody >Aurora Farm > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 14:00:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA12569 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:00:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA18897; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:51:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18696 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:50:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0211.direct.ca ([204.244.83.27] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HBKN-0002Vq-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:52:35 -0800 Message-ID: <36D98FDA.EBE63DA1@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:50:02 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Cow Tonic References: <199902281740.JAA08825@ns2.vphos.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 808 Woody, let me be a cow in your stable (perhaps the bull...... Ferdinand) That is wonderful stuff. Mine have to do with less. Yes, birch bark, chopped alder twigs and fir branches they love to chew (against cold). But your ashes, what a marvellous idea. I will immediately empty our woodstove (where we truly burn wood only) and put those ashes (very fine though) into the feeding trough. Good idea. Although, Woody, I know the Agnihotra ashes is different and made with butter in a copper dish, I think. Our cows never see grain and are as fat as....., let me say it in animal language, as some of those Niagara Fall visiting tourists.....hahahaha. Hay, hay, hay, all day We say nay, nay nay! Go away, way, way Down we lay, lay, lay Soon its May, May, May....... Regards Ferdinand Woody Wodraska wrote: > Listfolk: > > It's the last day of that "nasty little month," as my mentor in the art of > being a desert rat used to say. For two weeks now we've been feeding our > two cows, the calf, and the bull a little something extra to help them > through the late winter doldrums before the first grass appears. We'll > continue this through March, a kind of a Spring tonic. > > Two parts grain [cracked, wheat, oats, corn] > One part wheat bran > One tenth part or less [from a shaker-topped jar] of a mix of roasted > garlic, ground up, agnihotra ash, Azomite, Celtin sea salt > A big squirt of cider vinegar. > > Anyone else have a Cow Tonic formula? > > Woody > Aurora Farm -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cows around the world, I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 14:18:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA12773 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:18:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA21408; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:09:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21115 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:07:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem78.digisys.net [205.138.110.127]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09870 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:10:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D994C2.9EA4A658@digisys.net> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:10:58 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: OFF: Government - "Fat Substitutes" & "HACCP" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 809 How does everyone feel about this "Z-Trim" movement of government? FROM: http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/EOP/OSTP/SNT/chapter5t.html Fat Substitutes - The Federal government contributes to the development of a more healthful food supply - food that is more nutritious and low in fat. For example, Z-Trim, a new no-calorie, high-fiber fat replacement developed by U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) scientists, could soon find a place in foods such as cheese products, hamburger, and baked goods. Z-Trim is made from low-cost agricultural byproducts such as hulls of oats, soybeans, peas and rice, or bran from corn or wheat. The hulls or bran are processed into microscopic fragments and purified, then dried and milled into an easy-flowing powder. When the fragments absorb water they swell, forming a gel that provides foods with an enjoyable smooth texture like that of fat. FROM: http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/haccpret.html Mandatory HACCP for all of the Food Industry The second element in FDA's new food initiatives is to determine the appropriateness of requiring the use of the HACCP technique, as an additional safety assurance, throughout the entire food industry. FDA's consideration of this use of HACCP is based upon the benefits that will accrue for the consuming public, the food industry, and the government regulator. FDA has been working with other segments of the food industry, state officials and consumer groups to consider whether preventative food safety measures can be applied to other foods. Like the approach that is being taken with the seafood industry, such measures would have to be tailored to the nature of the potential hazards for each food and to the operations of the affected industry. Among the topics that need to be addressed in the development of the HACCP approach for other food industries are: Where do the food safety hazards exist for a particular product; At what points could these hazards be minimized or eliminated; What are the most effective, and efficient, methods to monitor compliance; and, How do the laws and regulations of other countries impact upon the use of HACCP in the production of foods imported into the U.S. and U.S. food products exported to other countries? This "universal HACCP" is still in the preliminary stages, and more information about it will become available as development progresses. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 14:37:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13014 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:37:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24192; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:27:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23946 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:26:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.210.135.44] (max18-26.stc.net [208.210.139.154]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA19401 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:28:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D8E2E6.1661@xtra.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:05:36 -0400 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Hugh Lovel Subject: Re: Study:L3:2 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 810 >Due to having a extremely minialsitic understanding of chemistry I have >always wondered. > >At what point does nitrogen become involved in organic chemistry? I >understand alcohols, sugars, carbohydrates and fats generally do not >contain nitrogen. I understand they start to occur in the formation of >amino acids and proteins. If this is so then in CHO etc what is >happening with the nitrogens abilty to drag the oxygen along behind >it??? > >Glen A. Dear Glen and List, Good question. There's organic chemistry and there's organic chemistry. The term "organic chemistry" was born in Germany in the nineteenth century with the synthesis of urea. According to this ammonia (NH3) wasn't organic, but urea (CO[NH2]2) was due to its combination of nitrogen with carbon and oxygen. As far as organic chemists are concerned today organic chemistry is carbon chemistry, though it is interesting that the term came first came into use when nitrogen entered the picture. You are right that alcohols, sugars, carbohydrates and fats to say nothing of the acids of carbon such as acetic acid and hydrocarbons such as ethane (a gasseous alkane used to ripen tomatoes) normal hexane (a six carbon straight chain alkane used as a solvent to extract soybean oil) etc. contain no nitrogen, or if there is nitrogen present it is a contaminant. As far as chemical agriculture goes most of your nitrogen enters into the soil chemistry as anhydrous ammonia (NH3 gas) which is injected wholesale into the soil. This stuff is real reactive and attaches to all kinds of things, most notably water, where it forms an ionic solution of hydrous ammonia (NH4+.OH-) like what's under the kitchen sink. From here all kinds of reactions occur including the buildup of amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins, which in their turn result in RNA and DNA. In the soil there is a whole family of bacterea, the Nitrobactereacea, that work with nitrogen, fixing it from the air and leading it from ammonia, where it enters into the picture via hydrogen, through a series of oxidative steps (amines, amides, nitrites) all the way to nitrate (NO3-) the negatively charged ion of nitric acid. We wouldn't get anywhere with life on this planet without the nitrobactereacea. In the realm of chemistry there really aren't many reactions that go from A + B to C + D. That is, few reactions are one way. There almost always is some reaction in the backwards direction so that an equilibrium of reaction occurs. This equilibrium may be far to the right in the direction of end products, or it may be far to the left in the direction of starting materials. If you have a means of removing one or more of the end products as they are formed you can shift the equilibrium toward that product. If you can keep adding one or more starting materials you can again shift the equilibrium toward product. Living organisms enjoy extremely complex and subtle equilibria of reactions. It doesn't take much, such as injecting anhydrous ammonia into the soil at the rate of 100 kilos per hectare, to slam these complex, subtle biochemical equilibria up against the wall. Even the application of ammonium nitrate, a little milder way of introducing basic, raw nitrogen in large doses, really upsets the biochemistry of the soil and the plants grown there. Compare this artificial nitrogen introduction with nature's way--fixing nitrogen via Rhizobia in nodules on legume roots, and via Azotobacters in the sugar rich proximity of vigorous, fast growing plant roots. The nitrogen is fixed via enzymatic activity by first being hydrogenated into ammonia and then into amino acids in a continuous stream from the air all the way to complex proteins. There is never any concentration of crude nitrogen compounds because at every step in the process there is only a little produced and that gets passed along to the next step and the next. The biochemical equlibria of reaction stay right in the groove without swinging wildly in any direction. The chemical pathways are never deranged and there is never any appreciable quantity of crude (bitter, noxious) nitrogen salts present in the soil and the plant juices. First the hydrogen and then the oxygen (with the catalytic assistance of sulfur) enter into combination with nitrogen from the air and the whole rich, complex process is under control at all times. No wonder food grown in this fashion tastes so delicious and is so healthy to eat. To review, nitrogen in the atmosphere is inert. It combines with itself and eschews other combinations. It first enters into reaction (catalyzed by sulfur) with hydrogen as ammonia and THEN it discovers its affinity for oxygen and carbon. Interestingly enough when it dissociates from ammino acids it does this by way of hydrogen. This is why you can go in a barn or chicken house where deep litter manuring takes place and get a real blast of ammonia coming off the breakdown of amino acids in the decomposing organic compounds. Isn't that just what Steiner is talking about in lecture three? I don't know much about Steiner's background in chemistry, but he is right on the money about how the spirit works into matter. Any biochemist would confirm this even though he might assert there is no proof that anything spiritual is involved. Regards, Hugh Lovel Hugh Lovel Blairsville, Georgia "A menial task which must be mine, that shall I glorify and make an art of it."--Walter Russell From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 19:37:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA17324 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:37:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA02182; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:26:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA01872 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:24:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0116.direct.ca ([204.244.83.16] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HGXp-0000ZD-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:26:49 -0800 Message-ID: <36D9DE1F.C822AADF@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:23:59 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: Bread alergies, milk alergies etc. and the GE wheat plant Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 811 Bread alergies (and to a certain extent milk as well) has also the following reason: Wheat has been tampered with and is growing just about 1/2 the size it was growing some 50 years ago. There are four levels that we all must observe: 1. (near the earth and in it) Life ether 2. one third up Ton ether 3. Further up Light ether 4. In the fruity part (top) Warmth ether. These are (a bit generalized) the areas in which the ethers are working. Ton ether is also called sound, number ether or chemical ether) On page 186 of James Trevor Constable's book COSMIC PULSE OF LIFE, you can read more abou it. However, what I wish to say is this. With the so called GE of the wheat plant, with the shortening of the stalk and by bringing the ear closer to the ground, the grain is now ripening in the sphere of the Ton& Life Ether. And that is the level in which the fungi love to develop. Of course, farmers have to spray their wheat etc. in order to control fungal diseases. And unfortunately, many a BD farmer, has to do the same (with 501). The BD farmer has taken over short staled wheat and is confronted with the same problems as the farmer who uses N fertilizers and other chemicals. The secret lies in the plant i.e. in the rejuvenation of the plant. You see, a plant in which all four ethers can work is a very individualistic plant. Its flour cannot easily be handled by machines but rather by human beings who feel the difference. The wheat plant that is dealing with the two lower ethers only, does not contain a lot of quality but a lot of quantity (is, therefore, not individualistic). Our modern times does not want individuals (neither in seeds, furits, animals or human beings), it wants (and needs) followers that can be counted, chained and 'excreted'. Our wheat and other flours have, consciously, be changed to fit the baking machines. That industry and the plant breeders have, for years and years, worked closely together. They excluded the human being (to give em credit, possibly not thinking of it). And now, the machines have been perfected, and the wheat has become lazy. It does not properly reproduce any longer. That is the result of low breeding - bringing the plant into the domain of the Life& Chemical ether. There, you do not have much of a regenerative force. That force is coming into being higher up, in the warmth and light ether sphere (level). So, Light and warmth ethers are responsible for etheric oils and quality, the lower ethers for quantity and what goes with it. Incidentally, these ethers can be easily seen on the plants themselves. Dark greens and blues towards the Life & Chemical ethers and as you go higher up you come towards the red and yellow. But, remember, this is a very crude description - your very own studies will make masters out of you, I guarantee. Regards Ferdinand -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cows around the world, I have declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 20:44:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17966 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:44:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA10905; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:35:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from connect1.reach.net (root@connect1.reach.net [204.50.58.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10759 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:33:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.186.52.220] (D28.reach.net [206.186.52.220]) by connect1.reach.net (8.9.1-wasp/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA30636 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:34:49 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:34:49 -0500 X-Sender: ghein@mail.reach.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: ghein@reach.net (Geoff Heinricks) Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 812 >Agsyn.com is working with Greg Willis and, as far as I am concerned, many >things >are amiss there. Regards Ferdinand Ferdinand, >From what I've seen, you're not one to shy away from fully outlining your reasons. I'd appreciate your thoughts on how and why you've come to this conclusion. Cheers, Geoff Heinricks Prince Edward Co Ontario From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 22:42:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19713 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:42:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA25743; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:32:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24897 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:29:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep2-163-86.intrepid.net [209.190.163.86]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32158 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:31:10 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902281740.JAA08825@ns2.vphos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:19:08 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Cow Tonic Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 813 Woody, Me being new at this 'cowboy' stuff, I've gotta ask: how large is a 'part' in this recipe? How large of a ration do you give a grown animal daily? (I'm actually surprised at how little grain and molasses the pastured Highlands seem to want in a days time.) Thanks for your help! -Allan >Listfolk: > >It's the last day of that "nasty little month," as my mentor in the art of >being a desert rat used to say. For two weeks now we've been feeding our >two cows, the calf, and the bull a little something extra to help them >through the late winter doldrums before the first grass appears. We'll >continue this through March, a kind of a Spring tonic. > >Two parts grain [cracked, wheat, oats, corn] >One part wheat bran >One tenth part or less [from a shaker-topped jar] of a mix of roasted >garlic, ground up, agnihotra ash, Azomite, Celtin sea salt >A big squirt of cider vinegar. > >Anyone else have a Cow Tonic formula? > >Woody >Aurora Farm From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 22:42:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19722 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA25611; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:31:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24904 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:29:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep2-163-86.intrepid.net [209.190.163.86]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32171 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:31:13 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D98B53.D99B6602@direct.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:19:58 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: BD Now! Seedlist 1.2 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 814 > >Just visited SEEDLIST now. What a list! Congratulation, Allan. I will info my >manager when he is back. Regards Ferdinand Well, let's give Marlin the credit for this. He saw a need for the community and pitched in to make it happen. (Thanks, Marlin!) -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Feb 28 22:42:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19723 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA25908; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:32:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24924 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:29:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep2-163-86.intrepid.net [209.190.163.86]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32183 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:31:16 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D9848B.AAB7FF44@direct.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:22:02 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: camelid manures and your interview Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 815 >Dear? I often recommend that Barrel Compost be sprayed in a field where many >goats or other animals are being kept - this will set the stage for an easier >breaking down in the compost. The BC will infiltrate the 'goat berries' when >they are still wet and fresh. Regards Ferdinand And, Ferdinand, do you mean 'sprayed' or 'splashed'? And if you mean 'sprayed,' well, then, what EXACTLY do you mean? (Don't spare a detail, please, how do you strain, what sort of nozzle, pressure, etc.) THANKS! -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 00:01:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA20781 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:01:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA26125; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:33:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24947 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:29:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.177] (pm3shep2-163-86.intrepid.net [209.190.163.86]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32199 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:31:18 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D98367.F2AEE7DA@direct.ca> References: <199902281217.EAA08081@ns2.vphos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:23:20 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Waterglass for Tree Paste? Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 816 Any further clarification of 'waterglass' w.b. appreciated. Is it called something different in the U.S.? Where would one obtain it? Thanks -Allan >Woody, that is absolutely correct. It is a preservative for eggs. And it has >that wonderful ability to really seal off the trunk so that no fungi or other >stuff gets into it. Mind you, the tree can easily breath and will crack >the coat >within a few weeks or so. But in addition, waterglass keeps the mix >together so >that it cannot be washed off so easily. One year I tried sand (silica >sand) and >I was rather depressed because the sand was washed away from the trunk >within a >week (by the rain). > >One more thing: You guys are farther ahead with your work than we here on the >Coast. Snow, sleet, storms, rain, and half a forest that is bent over like a >bowing community of Ostriches...... Hope they can get up again. Regards >Ferdinand > >Woody Wodraska wrote: > >> Listfolk: >> >> We're about to apply tree paste here and curious about waterglass, an >> ingredient mentioned by Ferdinand. My dictionary says it's sodium silicate. >> Sources? Where do you commonly find this stuff? Only other mention I >> recall of waterglass is as a preservative for eggs... >> >> Woody >> Aurora Farm > > > >-- > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- > >FRIENDS: >To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow around the >world, I have >declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site >addresses, references, >statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. >I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 00:13:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA20984 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:13:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA07281; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:02:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06987 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:59:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.86] (pm3shep2-163-64.intrepid.net [209.190.163.64]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12653 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:01:34 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:30:37 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: FYI: WWW Seed List Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 817 From: The Splendid Table William Woys Weaver's Heirloom Vegetable Seed Sources February 21, 1998 William Woys Weaver, author of Heirloom Vegetable Gardening (Henry Holt & Company, 1997) recommends the following sources for heirloom vegetable seeds: Seeds of Change P.O. Box 15700 Santa Fe, NM 87506-5700 Phone: 505-438-8080 Fax: 505-438-7052 Seeds Blum 33 Idaho City Boise, ID 83706 Phone: 208-342-0858 Fox Hollow Herb & Heirloom Seed Company 1324 Red Crow Road Victor, MT 59875-9713 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 08:34:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA25413 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:34:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA08670; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:25:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA08540 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:23:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts2-8.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.40]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id FAA31767 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 05:25:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:37:41 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: Cow Tonic In-Reply-To: References: <199902281740.JAA08825@ns2.vphos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id IAA08544 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 818 Allan: The cows are dry, but pregnant. If they were under stress of milking, I'd give 'em more grain; if they weren't pregnant I wouldn't give 'em any at all, and in fact they won't get any after the good grass comes in. Anyway, a "part" is a quart yogurt container. The small Dexter cow gets a pint; the large [maybe 1,200 lbs] Brown Swiss/Jersey gets two-thrids of a quart; the bull [maybe 1,000 lbs] gets the same; the fast-growing calf gets about what the Dexter cow gets. Nothing scientific here, or even rational. For example, the bull doesn't really NEED any grain at all, but I have to have a vehicle to carry the mineral rich Azomite, Celtic salt, garlic, and Agnihotra ash. This is all pretty much operating out of eyeball and heart on the part of the herdsperson...at least _this_ herdsperson. Other folks might have a much more reasoned approach. Woody At 10:19 PM 2/28/99 -0500, you wrote: >Woody, Me being new at this 'cowboy' stuff, I've gotta ask: how large is a >'part' in this recipe? How large of a ration do you give a grown animal >daily? (I'm actually surprised at how little grain and molasses the >pastured Highlands seem to want in a days time.) > >Thanks for your help! > >-Allan > > >>Listfolk: >> >>It's the last day of that "nasty little month," as my mentor in the art of >>being a desert rat used to say.  For two weeks now we've been feeding our >>two cows, the calf, and the bull a little something extra to help them >>through the late winter doldrums before the first grass appears.  We'll >>continue this through March, a kind of a Spring tonic. >> >>Two parts grain [cracked, wheat, oats, corn] >>One part wheat bran >>One tenth part or less [from a shaker-topped jar] of a mix of roasted >>garlic, ground up, agnihotra ash,  Azomite, Celtin sea salt >>A big squirt of cider vinegar. >> >>Anyone else have a Cow Tonic formula? >> >>Woody >>Aurora Farm > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 09:17:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26069 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:17:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA12807; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:08:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12479 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:05:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-16.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.17]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id GAA30225 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 06:07:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903011407.GAA30225@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 06:59:50 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Fwd: Re: Tree Paste & Forest Compost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id JAA12484 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 819 >X-From_: ferdy@direct.ca Sun Feb 28 10:55:13 1999 >Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:43:41 -0800 >From: Ferdinand Vondruska >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) >To: Woody Wodraska >Subject: Re: Tree Paste & Forest Compost > >Just sat at the computer, my friend. > >Add Barrel Compost (don't delet the rest) by all means and also 508, simply add >it. That is very good and we did it here, too. Shows you what one can forget in >communicating. The effect is, to begin with, not so eye popping, but I am sure >that (over the years) will make a difference. I will have to sit down in front >of my trees when we do it to observe the difference. However, it can be said >that the more 'earthily' you embrace the tree trunk, the better for the tree. I >believe that firs, hemlock, cedar etc. have done that with their bark and are >smewhat more difficult to reach than the 'demesticated' trees. > >It is wonderful to see what is happening in the forest, when my little wife is >working for months, out there, with a small hatchet, making forest compost. The >trees towering above here and the work, truly, seems overwhelming. Nobody would >do it - hundreds of miles of forest around here (not ours though). And there, >she is making this tree (branch) compost, stacking finely chopped branches, >twigs and other stuff onto a pile. Then, she covers them with moss and >incculates them. You should see the elementals - it is mindboggling. They >physically pop into and out of it and can not believe that a human being has >come to create an island-of-peace for them. > >At the beginning I was very reluctant, thinking (see: thinking and not feeling) >thinking that this does not work. Too small, too insignificant, too labour >intensive, too..... whatever. Excuses, brain-cheese, me falling into the >thinking trap. And then, at the bottom of that trap, seening the light at the >end of the tunnel. > >God, if you would know how the forests are yearning for mankind, for >communication, for an embrace, for help and a story, it would make your heart >bleed. Perhaps, there are a few people who can spare a few tears, sometimes, >and shed them in the forests. > >Woody, you are free to put this on the list. > > > >Woody Wodraska wrote: > >> Ferdinand, Cousin: >> >> I know you're digging out from under  blizzards of email and late winter >> snow, but when you get the chance to respond to the following, I'll be >> grateful: >> >> What would you think of substituting [in your formula for treepaste] Barrel >> compost for the cow manure, and BD#508 for the waterglass? >> Many good wishes, >> Woody > > > >-- > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- > >FRIENDS: >To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cows around the >world, I have >declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please,  e-mail me any info, web site >addresses, references, >statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. >I thank you for your help. > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 09:38:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26655 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:38:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA15043; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:29:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA14864 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:27:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0102.direct.ca ([204.244.83.2] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HThh-0003ON-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 06:29:53 -0800 Message-ID: <36DAA389.B95DDB20@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 06:26:18 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' References: <36D354A2.EF9858B3@direct.ca> <36D36BED.42D4@javanet.com> <36D3AC8E.491A3379@direct.ca> <36D4C51E.79B3@javanet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 820 Dear Christian, We are in the process of setting up a Web site and translating a lot of their (HERAs) researches into English, however, being shorthanded (in about everything I can think of) makes the process a slow one, indeed. But, knowing that there are large numbers of people out there who are interested, may speed up the process. Regards Ferdinand Christian Elwell wrote: > Thank you Ferdinand for reference to the German site. Unfortunately I do > not know enough Deutsch to translate the site. Anything you are able to > glean from the site or from your forester to share with the list in > English I am sure would be most welcome by all, and 'twould be a > positive path of action for many of us in the face of GE scares etc. > onward, Christian -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibioticas, fast-breeding, feeding of meat and sileage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 09:45:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26778 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:45:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA15738; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:35:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from node21.frontiernet.net (node21.frontiernet.net [209.130.129.196]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA15389 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:32:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (as5200-2-23.vir.wi.frontiernet.net [209.130.160.213]) by node21.frontiernet.net (8.8.8a/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA170340 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:34:28 -0500 From: "Ocooch Mtn. Acres / Ken & Ruth Rupp" To: Subject: Re: Tree Paste & Forest Compost Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:27:15 -0600 Message-ID: <001501be63ef$9af16f00$cda082d1@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE63BD.5056FF00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 0000000071640A261569D111B3BC0060088FA49D04332300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199903011407.GAA30225@ns2.vphos.net> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 821 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE63BD.5056FF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone. I am new to this list server. I am an organic cash crop farmer with maple syrup being one of the products I produce on my farm here in Wisconsin. I am currently making the transition from certified organic to bio-dynamic farming. Does anyone have any experience with bio-dynamic methods for maple trees? Thanks. RGR Ocooch Mountain Acres*, LLC Ruth Gerber Rupp, President [[ MAPI 1.0 storage : 3600 in winmail.dat ]] Office address: P.O. Box 88, Viroqua, Wisconsin, USA 54665-0088 Farm address: S 3701 Vance Hill Road LaFarge, Wisconsin, USA 54639-8025 Office Phone: 608-625-4309 or 800-253-3997 Cellular phone: 608-632-0197 FAX: 608-625-4329 Home phone: 608-625-4307 Business E-mail: ocoochmt@frontiernet.net Personal E-mail: ruthrupp@mwt.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org [mailto:owner-bdnow@envirolink.org] On Behalf Of Woody Wodraska Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 9:00 AM To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Fwd: Re: Tree Paste & Forest Compost >X-From_: ferdy@direct.ca Sun Feb 28 10:55:13 1999 >Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:43:41 -0800 >From: Ferdinand Vondruska >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) >To: Woody Wodraska >Subject: Re: Tree Paste & Forest Compost > > > >Add Barrel Compost (don't delet the rest) by all means and also 508, simply add >it. That is very good and we did it here, too. Shows you what one can forget in >communicating. The effect is, to begin with, not so eye popping, but I am sure >that (over the years) will make a difference. I will have to sit down in front >of my trees when we do it to observe the difference. However, it can be said >that the more 'earthily' you embrace the tree trunk, the better for the tree. I >believe that firs, hemlock, cedar etc. have done that with their bark and are >smewhat more difficult to reach than the 'demesticated' trees. > >It is wonderful to see what is happening in the forest, when my little wife is >working for months, out there, with a small hatchet, making forest compost. The >trees towering above here and the work, truly, seems overwhelming. Nobody would >do it - hundreds of miles of forest around here (not ours though). And there, >she is making this tree (branch) compost, stacking finely chopped branches, >twigs and other stuff onto a pile. Then, she covers them with moss and >incculates them. You should see the elementals - it is mindboggling. They >physically pop into and out of it and can not believe that a human being has >come to create an island-of-peace for them. > >At the beginning I was very reluctant, thinking (see: thinking and not feeling) >thinking that this does not work. Too small, too insignificant, too labour >intensive, too..... whatever. Excuses, brain-cheese, me falling into the >thinking trap. And then, at the bottom of that trap, seening the light at the >end of the tunnel. > >God, if you would know how the forests are yearning for mankind, for >communication, for an embrace, for help and a story, it would make your heart >bleed. Perhaps, there are a few people who can spare a few tears, sometimes, >and shed them in the forests. > >Woody, you are free to put this on the list. > > > >Woody Wodraska wrote: > >> Ferdinand, Cousin: >> >> I know you're digging out from under blizzards of email and late winter >> snow, but when you get the chance to respond to the following, I'll be >> grateful: >> >> What would you think of substituting [in your formula for treepaste] Barrel >> compost for the cow manure, and BD#508 for the waterglass? >> Many good wishes, >> Woody > > > >-- > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE63BD.5056FF00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IhAOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAAM8HAwABAAgAGAAAAAEA+wAB 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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIBAjcBAAAAAAAAAAMABTcGAAAAAgEK NwEAAAALAAAAKoZIhvcUAwoDAgEAAwALN5IBAAADAPp/AAAAAEAA+38AQN2jV0WzDEAA/H8AQN2j V0WzDAMA/X8AAAAACwD+fwAAAAADACEOJYYBAAIB+A8BAAAAEAAAAHFkCiYVadERs7wAYAiPpJ0C AfoPAQAAABAAAABxZAomFWnREbO8AGAIj6SdAgH7DwEAAABRAAAAAAAAADihuxAF5RAaobsIACsq VsIAAFBTVFBSWC5ETEwAAAAAAAAAAE5JVEH5v7gBAKoAN9luAAAAQzpcV0lORE9XU1xwZXJzb25h bC5wc3QAAAAAAwD+DwcAAACKzA== ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE63BD.5056FF00-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 09:54:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26935 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:54:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA16842; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:44:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA16784 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:43:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-184.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.184]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA23638 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:45:55 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36DAA8C6.5770@ipa.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 08:48:38 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Nutritional quality of biodynamic food Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 822 There was an extensive review done recently on comparative studies on foods grown by conventional and organic methods, some of which included biodynamic research. "A comparison of organically and conventionally grown foods -- results of a review of the relevant literature" by Katrin Woese, Dirk Lange, Christian Boess, and Klaus Werner Bogl. 1997. J. Sci. Food Agric. Vol. 74, 281-293. The authors are with: Federal Institute for Health Protection of Consumers and Veterinary Medicine, Division 2, Chemistry and Technology of Foods and Commodities, PO Box 330013, D-14191, Berlin, Germany. The review summarizes and evaluates the results of more than 150 investigations (published between 1926 and 19994) comparing the quality of conventionally and organically produced food, or of foods produced by different fertilization systems. The review is particularly noteworthy to those of us readers here in the United States, because it looks like better than 90% of the citations are from German-language journals and literature. This article does a good job of addressing the parameters used to evaluate differences item by item. One passage worth noting: "Only the more or less correlative results of the feed selection tests permit a general conclusion: animals distinguish between the foods on offer from the various agricultural systems and almost exclusively prefer organic produce." Also, the last section deals with comparative studies which are based on "alternative, holistic methods" such as the ascending-image method, round filter chromatography and copper chloride crystallisation or the measurement of ultraweak photo emissions..." saying it is to difficult to evaluate because the conduct and assessment of these methods require a high degree of practice and experience. "Altogether it was mostly concluded from the ascending and copper chloride crystallisation images of juices and/or extracts from organically produced or fertilised products that they have a higher form-shaping ability and thus have more vital activity than the corresponding conventionally produced or minerally fertilised foods." Finally, it points to what I think are promising newer forms of evaluation. For example.... "electrochemical, plant physiological and multivariable physico-chemical methods (determination and statistical processing of several analytical parameters), investigation of infection proneness of plants and post- harvest behavior. Approaches of this kind to the problem of comparing the quality of different production forms have been gaining ground in the last few years and offer new and interesting material for the discussion of quality differences and their detection." Other findings: *Lower nitrates in organically produced or fertilised vegetables. *Lower pesticide residues in organic fruit and vegetables *Higher dry matter content in organic products *Feed experiments showed animals preferentially selected organic produce, but where fertility parameters and rearing performance were determined the results were contradictory Steve Diver From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 11:02:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA28796 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:02:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA27788; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:53:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27337 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:50:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0209.direct.ca ([204.244.83.25] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HUzn-000594-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:52:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36DAB6E7.8FEBDEDA@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 07:48:55 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: camelid manures and your interview / Spraying details References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 823 Since we make BC (Barrel Compost) on site and sell it, too, we have to test it - its effectiveness (in field, stable and garden) What is good for the goose is good for the gander. So, we take a 4 gallon bucket and stir it (here we go) for 6 minutes. And then, equipped with broom and bucket, we spray the barn yard, the barn and around the barn. Now, an amount of a cubic inch is enough for our 1/8 of an acre area, but at times we us a bit more. The amount of water really does not matter (I think). The stirring does!! i.e. the intensity and there, I understand Maria Thun. Maria has observed, I think, dozens of people stirring and realized that most people stir very, very slowly. It does neither splash, foam nor froth. The water just builds a lame vortex. That isn't the idea. Really, if you stir like this, you defeat the idea of stirring. You really have to put some of yourself into this water. Lame stirrers (often) are lame workers, too. So, be an active stirrer and get the vortex going AND change direction vigorously after 20 seconds or so. Give it about 2 - 3 secs. to build that vortex and then revers. Hope this explains a bit more of what is to be done. Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >Dear? I often recommend that Barrel Compost be sprayed in a field where many > >goats or other animals are being kept - this will set the stage for an easier > >breaking down in the compost. The BC will infiltrate the 'goat berries' when > >they are still wet and fresh. Regards Ferdinand > > And, Ferdinand, do you mean 'sprayed' or 'splashed'? And if you mean > 'sprayed,' well, then, what EXACTLY do you mean? (Don't spare a detail, > please, how do you strain, what sort of nozzle, pressure, etc.) THANKS! > -Allan igg@igg.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 11:05:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA28868 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:05:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA28341; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:56:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27793 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:53:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0209.direct.ca ([204.244.83.25] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HV2X-0005Ky-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:55:29 -0800 Message-ID: <36DAB792.7218A6C9@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 07:51:46 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Waterglass for Tree Paste? References: <199902281217.EAA08081@ns2.vphos.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 824 Friends, I can obtain Waterglass in Pain Stores or Pharmacies (at times even Drug Stores) here in Canada. It has become, I must say, a somewhat more difficult to obtain article. Some concrete treatment companies carry it too. It has become a non-toxic, environment friendly dust binder. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Any further clarification of 'waterglass' w.b. appreciated. Is it called > something different in the U.S.? Where would one obtain it? Thanks -Allan > > >Woody, that is absolutely correct. It is a preservative for eggs. And it has > >that wonderful ability to really seal off the trunk so that no fungi or other > >stuff gets into it. Mind you, the tree can easily breath and will crack > >the coat > >within a few weeks or so. But in addition, waterglass keeps the mix > >together so > >that it cannot be washed off so easily. One year I tried sand (silica > >sand) and > >I was rather depressed because the sand was washed away from the trunk > >within a > >week (by the rain). > > > >One more thing: You guys are farther ahead with your work than we here on the > >Coast. Snow, sleet, storms, rain, and half a forest that is bent over like a > >bowing community of Ostriches...... Hope they can get up again. Regards > >Ferdinand > > > >Woody Wodraska wrote: > > > >> Listfolk: > >> > >> We're about to apply tree paste here and curious about waterglass, an > >> ingredient mentioned by Ferdinand. My dictionary says it's sodium silicate. > >> Sources? Where do you commonly find this stuff? Only other mention I > >> recall of waterglass is as a preservative for eggs... > >> > >> Woody > >> Aurora Farm > > > > > > > >-- > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >------------- > > > >FRIENDS: > >To do justice to the extensive damage that has been done to the cow around the > >world, I have > >declared 1999 as MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site > >addresses, references, > >statistics or your personal observations and stories on cows. > >I thank you for your help. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibioticas, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 11:08:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA28994 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:08:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA28778; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28683 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:58:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem40.digisys.net [205.138.110.89]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA26751; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:00:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36DAB9EA.1B67BD79@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:01:46 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: OFF: Terminator Seed is Real - Earth Changes TV/Breaking News References: <16ead82a.36d9ed94@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 825 Hello Everyone, Would some of our more seasoned and eloquent orator's care to further enlighten Mitch Battros? Pat Hironimus http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com > Subject: Earth Changes TV/Breaking News - Terminator Seed is Real > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:59:12 -0800 > From: Mitch Battros > Organization: Earth Changes TV > To: Breaking News > > Hi Folks, > The story below may be the smoking gun of our own governments project > related to the > "Terminator Seed". Why we would do this to ourselves, is beyond my > comprehension. Perhaps one of you could send an email and explain. I > had no idea how far along this project was. I apologize for not > following this more closely and reporting to you. Mitch Battros > > Government testing may have contaminated wheat fields with > fungus...02/27/99 > > (AP) Wheat growers in Arizona have been trying to cope with a federal > quarantine of their crop for three years. The government just made their > hardship worse. The quarantine restricting the shipment of Arizona wheat > was imposed after Karnal bunt was found in some of that state's fields. > The fungus is not harmful to humans, but it can reduce yield and give > wheat a fishy odor. Now the state's wheat industry has learned that > seeds carrying Karnal bunt spores may have gone to fields free of the > fungus. > > An embarrassed Arizona Department of Agriculture said Thursday that its > lab since October has improperly tested some 232 tons of wheat seeds, > potentially fouling fields in southern Arizona ."We are not pleased that > our staff apparently misused filtering equipment and we are working to > ensure this is an isolated incident," said Sheldon R. Jones, the > department's director. > > The U.S. Department of Agriculture, which mandated the quarantine, is > now scrambling to figure out where the seeds were planted. Farmers are > being warned their spring harvest could face stringent testing and > analysis. > > Mitch Battros > Producer - Earth Changes TV > http://www.earthchangesTV.com > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 11:21:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29258 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:21:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA01147; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:11:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA00764 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:09:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:09:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903011609.LAA00764@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 9495 invoked from network); 1 Mar 1999 16:11:27 -0000 Received: from i48-24-30.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO DAVE) (216.26.7.222) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 1999 16:11:27 -0000 X-Sender: drobison@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Dave Robison Subject: Re: Waterglass for Tree Paste? Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 826 At 04:43 AM 2/28/99 -0800, Woody wrote: >Listfolk: > >We're about to apply tree paste here and curious about waterglass, an >ingredient mentioned by Ferdinand. My dictionary says it's sodium silicate. >Sources? Where do you commonly find this stuff? Only other mention I >recall of waterglass is as a preservative for eggs... > I purchased tech grade sodium silicate from a chemical supply place. Dont know about availability of waterglass. ================ Dave Robison Stellar Processes From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 12:18:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00529 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:18:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11269; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:08:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11156 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:07:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem40.digisys.net [205.138.110.89]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21027 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:10:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36DACA2C.BC8F8D8C@digisys.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 10:11:08 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: OFF: Maintaining the Forest Holistically Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 827 Ferdinand and All, The following excerpt reminded me of your recent e-mail about your wife lovingly attending to the forest. From: http://www.holisticmanagement.org/pages/about_hm.htm#land Holistic Land Planning "...periodic disturbance is needed to maintain soil cover and to keep plants fresh (plants neither grazed nor trampled choke to death under old leaves and stems that will not decay for years). In the past, this disturbance was provided by large herds of grazing/trampling animals—, elk, deer, zebra, wildebeest, buffalo, kangaroos, and so on— tightly together to ward off predators that hunted in packs. Today, using fairly simple techniques, we can simulate this herding behavior, or "herd effect" with livestock." Pat Hironimus http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 14:33:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03764 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:33:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA07989; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:22:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07133 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:18:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0209.direct.ca ([204.244.83.25] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HYFL-0001rZ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:20:55 -0800 Message-ID: <36DAE7AB.2372F3D7@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:16:59 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Maintaining the Forest Holistically References: <36DACA2C.BC8F8D8C@digisys.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 828 Excellent Web site, many thanks, Pat. Ferdinand P. Hironimus wrote: > Ferdinand and All, > > The following excerpt reminded me of your recent e-mail about your wife > lovingly attending to the forest. > > From: http://www.holisticmanagement.org/pages/about_hm.htm#land > Holistic Land Planning > > "...periodic disturbance is needed to maintain soil > cover and to keep plants fresh > (plants neither grazed nor trampled choke to death > under old leaves and > stems that will not decay for years). In the past, > this disturbance was > provided by large herds of grazing/trampling animals—, > elk, deer, zebra, > wildebeest, buffalo, kangaroos, and so on— tightly > together to ward off > predators that hunted in packs. Today, using fairly > simple techniques, we can > simulate this herding behavior, or "herd effect" with > livestock." > > Pat Hironimus > http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibioticas, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 14:34:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03805 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:34:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA08355; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:25:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07937 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:22:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0209.direct.ca ([204.244.83.25] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HYJ5-00020B-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:24:47 -0800 Message-ID: <36DAE893.4827FF92@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:20:51 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Terminator Seed is Real - Earth Changes TV/Breaking News References: <16ead82a.36d9ed94@aol.com> <36DAB9EA.1B67BD79@digisys.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 829 In this connection, dear Pat, I can only come back to what I said yesterday. As long as we go for quantity i.e. grow shorter and shorter stems, the more will the wheat be attacked by fungus. The Life and Ton ether levels are ideal for the growth of fungus. Ferdinand PS It would be interesting to see whether a higher grain could somehow resist that fungus, but one would have to work with 501, too. P. Hironimus wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Would some of our more seasoned and eloquent orator's care to further enlighten > Mitch Battros? > > Pat Hironimus > http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com > > > Subject: Earth Changes TV/Breaking News - Terminator Seed is Real > > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:59:12 -0800 > > From: Mitch Battros > > Organization: Earth Changes TV > > To: Breaking News > > > > Hi Folks, > > The story below may be the smoking gun of our own governments project > > related to the > > "Terminator Seed". Why we would do this to ourselves, is beyond my > > comprehension. Perhaps one of you could send an email and explain. I > > had no idea how far along this project was. I apologize for not > > following this more closely and reporting to you. Mitch Battros > > > > Government testing may have contaminated wheat fields with > > fungus...02/27/99 > > > > (AP) Wheat growers in Arizona have been trying to cope with a federal > > quarantine of their crop for three years. The government just made their > > hardship worse. The quarantine restricting the shipment of Arizona wheat > > was imposed after Karnal bunt was found in some of that state's fields. > > The fungus is not harmful to humans, but it can reduce yield and give > > wheat a fishy odor. Now the state's wheat industry has learned that > > seeds carrying Karnal bunt spores may have gone to fields free of the > > fungus. > > > > An embarrassed Arizona Department of Agriculture said Thursday that its > > lab since October has improperly tested some 232 tons of wheat seeds, > > potentially fouling fields in southern Arizona ."We are not pleased that > > our staff apparently misused filtering equipment and we are working to > > ensure this is an isolated incident," said Sheldon R. Jones, the > > department's director. > > > > The U.S. Department of Agriculture, which mandated the quarantine, is > > now scrambling to figure out where the seeds were planted. Farmers are > > being warned their spring harvest could face stringent testing and > > analysis. > > > > Mitch Battros > > Producer - Earth Changes TV > > http://www.earthchangesTV.com > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibioticas, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 14:47:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA04122 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:47:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10400; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:37:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd108.hotmail.com [207.82.252.172]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10093 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:35:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9785 invoked by uid 0); 1 Mar 1999 19:37:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990301193720.9784.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:37:20 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: STUDY:L3:2 Astrality Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:37:20 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 830 Dear Hugh, Is this the levels into materiality? A building process? + Nitrogen + Sulphur = Astral = Atmosphere + oxygen = Etheric = Life + Silica/Lime = Physical = Form + Hydrogen/Carbon = Ego = ? < Nevertheless, the central theme of this lecture is nitrogen and there's a lot in this lecture--such as the information about meditation--about astrality. Now we have LECTURE THREE which finally gets down to chemistry, but with what a difference! This is occult chemistry, since as far as chemistry as it is taught in the universities is concerned these things are completely hidden and unknown--many would say unknowable. Here we are looking at chemistry in the context of the whole cosmos rather than looking at chemistry in the kind of isolation that laboratories provide.> Well I don't have a college chemistry background. My wife does and does very well. However, when it comes to application she can't. All of it is from a lab theoretical orientation. It is applicable but from a labratory position only.I wouldn't say it is unknown but un-taught. Ideas are perpetuated by intelligence and intelligence is imbedded in communication. Thats' what we are doing here right? Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 14:56:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA04454 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:56:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA11990; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:46:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11568 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:44:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0209.direct.ca ([204.244.83.25] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HYe4-0003F1-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:46:28 -0800 Message-ID: <36DAEDA6.4CA8BBBC@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:42:30 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: The sun as a Being calling forth the earth's warmth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 831 Dear friends, Every spring, every summer and throughout the whole year I work with a question that simply does not get out of my mind. Does the sun really send down warmth (via its rays)? There are many observations that contradict this theory. And here is one that I made in the past days> As you know it's been snowing like make - for days. By now, and at 30 degrees Farenheit - we should have about (lets say several) feet of snow. Yet, every morning only a few inches, if that, have remained. So, could it be that the sun, actually, is calling forth the warmth of the earth? Could it be that, like Dr. Steiner indicated that the water of the seven seas wishes to go back to the moon, hence following it (and not being attracted) the warmth of the earth wishes to follow the sun, too? Could it be that what is living inside the earth, what has come from the sun, is homesick and wishes to return home - E.T. GO HOME (forgive me for this blurr...) SUNLIGHT GO HOME....!>!......... and, as it is oozing tto the surface of the earth, is melting the snow from underneath? Could it be what Dr. Pfeiffer has observed, that the sunlight, the sun's warmth streaming into the earth at about 9m per day (27 - 30' per day) that this light, transformed into warmth, wishes to go home again. Mysteries over mysteries. The sun is coming back. And, Dr. STeiner makes it very clear that Persephone, the daughter of Demeter, is coming to the surface of the earth again - how? look at the green shoots, look at the emerging leaves, look at the flowers, the grain, the buds: she's arriving. All the best Ferdinand -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibioticas, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 15:09:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA04765 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:09:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA13781; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:55:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA13530 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:54:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0209.direct.ca ([204.244.83.25] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HYng-0002D2-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:56:24 -0800 Message-ID: <36DAEFFA.F90BA3A1@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:52:26 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Tree Paste & Forest Compost & Maple Trees References: <001501be63ef$9af16f00$cda082d1@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 832 Dear Ruth and Ken, Welcome to the tree people! This is going to be an interesting challenge. Trees, unlike lettuce and other vegetables, do not really give away their secrets within a year or two. Ruth, can you do me a favour? National Geographic had an article on Maple Trees in Quebec and the Atlantic States of the US (some 15 years ago. That article could be the basis of our study. It is outstanding, precise and full of details. Anybody working with Maple Trees should have a copy. However, I do not have the time, right now, to do the research (short handed, visitors......, snow, and muscle ache...). As soon as you have it, let me know. I am sure it can be found in their archives. I am very tankful for your help since I, too, need that article. There are wonderful details in it of how trees can fortel weather patterns etc. Regards Ferdinand Ocooch Mtn. Acres / Ken & Ruth Rupp wrote: > Hi everyone. I am new to this list server. I am an organic cash crop > farmer with maple syrup being one of the products I produce on my farm here > in Wisconsin. I am currently making the transition from certified organic > to bio-dynamic farming. Does anyone have any experience with bio-dynamic > methods for maple trees? > Thanks. RGR > Ocooch Mountain Acres*, LLC Ruth Gerber Rupp, President [[ MAPI 1.0 > storage : 3600 in winmail.dat ]] > Office address: P.O. Box 88, Viroqua, Wisconsin, USA 54665-0088 > Farm address: S 3701 Vance Hill Road LaFarge, Wisconsin, USA 54639-8025 > > Office Phone: 608-625-4309 or 800-253-3997 > Cellular phone: 608-632-0197 > FAX: 608-625-4329 > Home phone: 608-625-4307 > > Business E-mail: ocoochmt@frontiernet.net > Personal E-mail: ruthrupp@mwt.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org [mailto:owner-bdnow@envirolink.org] On > Behalf Of Woody Wodraska > Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 9:00 AM > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Fwd: Re: Tree Paste & Forest Compost > > >X-From_: ferdy@direct.ca Sun Feb 28 10:55:13 1999 > >Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:43:41 -0800 > >From: Ferdinand Vondruska > >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) > >To: Woody Wodraska > >Subject: Re: Tree Paste & Forest Compost > > > > > > > >Add Barrel Compost (don't delet the rest) by all means and also 508, simply > add > >it. That is very good and we did it here, too. Shows you what one can > forget > in > >communicating. The effect is, to begin with, not so eye popping, but I am > sure > >that (over the years) will make a difference. I will have to sit down in > front > >of my trees when we do it to observe the difference. However, it can be > said > >that the more 'earthily' you embrace the tree trunk, the better for the > tree. > I > >believe that firs, hemlock, cedar etc. have done that with their bark and > are > >smewhat more difficult to reach than the 'demesticated' trees. > > > >It is wonderful to see what is happening in the forest, when my little > wife is > >working for months, out there, with a small hatchet, making forest compost. > The > >trees towering above here and the work, truly, seems overwhelming. Nobody > would > >do it - hundreds of miles of forest around here (not ours though). And > there, > >she is making this tree (branch) compost, stacking finely chopped branches, > >twigs and other stuff onto a pile. Then, she covers them with moss and > >incculates them. You should see the elementals - it is mindboggling. They > >physically pop into and out of it and can not believe that a human being > has > >come to create an island-of-peace for them. > > > >At the beginning I was very reluctant, thinking (see: thinking and not > feeling) > >thinking that this does not work. Too small, too insignificant, too labour > >intensive, too..... whatever. Excuses, brain-cheese, me falling into the > >thinking trap. And then, at the bottom of that trap, seening the light at > the > >end of the tunnel. > > > >God, if you would know how the forests are yearning for mankind, for > >communication, for an embrace, for help and a story, it would make your > heart > >bleed. Perhaps, there are a few people who can spare a few tears, > sometimes, > >and shed them in the forests. > > > >Woody, you are free to put this on the list. > > > > > > > >Woody Wodraska wrote: > > > >> Ferdinand, Cousin: > >> > >> I know you're digging out from under blizzards of email and late winter > >> snow, but when you get the chance to respond to the following, I'll be > >> grateful: > >> > >> What would you think of substituting [in your formula for treepaste] > Barrel > >> compost for the cow manure, and BD#508 for the waterglass? > >> Many good wishes, > >> Woody > > > > > > > >-- > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Name: winmail.dat > winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibioticas, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 16:13:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA06653 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:13:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA26435; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:01:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26308 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:01:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.84]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA1667 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:54:31 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990301125330.03e878c0@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 12:53:30 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: Re: Tree Paste & Forest Compost & Maple Trees In-Reply-To: <36DAEFFA.F90BA3A1@direct.ca> References: <001501be63ef$9af16f00$cda082d1@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 833 Dear Friends, At 11:52 AM 3/1/99 -0800, Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: >Welcome to the tree people! This is going to be an interesting challenge. Trees, >unlike lettuce and other vegetables, do not really give away their secrets >within a year or two. Here is a little tree poem that this crowd might appreciate: Let the trees be consulted before you take any action every time you breathe in thank a tree let treeroots crack parking lots at the world bank headquarters let loggers be druids specially trained and rewarded to sacrifice trees at auspicious times let carpenters be master artisans let lumber be treasured like gold let chainsaws be played like saxophones let soldiers on maneuvers plant trees give police and criminals a shovel and a thousand seedlings let businessmen carry pocketfuls of acorns let newlyweds honeymoon in the woods walk don't drive stop reading newspapers stop writing poetry squat under a tree and tell stories JOHN WRIGHT -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 18:11:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11539 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 18:11:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA18587; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:59:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18111 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:57:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0116.direct.ca ([204.244.83.16] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Hbed-0006WB-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:59:15 -0800 Message-ID: <36DB1ACA.F9D4ED1C@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:55:07 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Tree Paste & Forest Compost & Maple Trees References: <001501be63ef$9af16f00$cda082d1@oemcomputer> <3.0.6.32.19990301125330.03e878c0@pop.igc.apc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 834 Many thanks for your kind words from my forest! Ferdinand Barry Carter wrote: > Dear Friends, > > At 11:52 AM 3/1/99 -0800, Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > >Welcome to the tree people! This is going to be an interesting challenge. > Trees, > >unlike lettuce and other vegetables, do not really give away their secrets > >within a year or two. > > Here is a little tree poem that this crowd might appreciate: > > Let the trees be consulted > before you take any action > every time you breathe in > thank a tree > let treeroots crack parking lots > at the world bank headquarters > let loggers be druids > specially trained and rewarded > to sacrifice trees at auspicious times > let carpenters be master artisans > let lumber be treasured like gold > let chainsaws be played like saxophones > let soldiers on maneuvers plant trees > give police and criminals a shovel > and a thousand seedlings > let businessmen carry pocketfuls of acorns > let newlyweds honeymoon in the woods > walk don't drive > stop reading newspapers > stop writing poetry > squat under a tree > and tell stories > > JOHN WRIGHT > > -- > With kindest regards, > > Barry Carter > > Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance > WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm > Voice: 541-523-3357 > Fax: 541-523-9438 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibioticas, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 20:47:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA23750 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:47:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA11924; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:37:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from sherman.shentel.net (sherman.shentel.net [204.111.1.58]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11620 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:35:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.111.48.48] (ha01s048.d.shentel.net [204.111.48.48]) by sherman.shentel.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA16590 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:38:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903020138.UAA16590@sherman.shentel.net> Subject: Sequential Spraying Date: Mon, 1 Mar 99 20:37:21 -0400 From: maracah To: "bdnow" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 835 For those of you who have not seen the latest issue of Applied Biodynamics, JPI's newsletter, Malcolm Gardner has an excellent summary of the data he has been collecting on sequential spraying. I would encourage you to suscribe to this newsletter which is now being edited by Malcolm. Your subscription helps JPI do the kind of research Malcolm has done in this article. Individual issues of Applied Biodynamics are also available. Jim Marquardt From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 21:28:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA29118 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:28:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA18487; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:19:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18071 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:17:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0106.direct.ca ([204.244.83.6] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Hem3-0005Ry-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 18:19:07 -0800 Message-ID: <36DB498D.154B8C73@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 18:14:38 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 836 WITHOUT PREJUDICE Dear Geoff, I do not want to get involved in a law case here; although it would be rather difficult to make a case. Last year, however, I was threatened by Greg Willis because I sent him a picture of 'a ram's head' that I needed to make Preparation #505. I thought that he, too, was an able, well versed and informed Preparation maker. I sent the same picture to other BDNOW addresses. Greg took my post as a personal attack and threatened me with the RCMP, the FBI and a monster law case. Things got so badly out of hand that I stepped back from any further contact with Greg Willis. However, a few months later, someone emailed me a letter with certain attacks on Greg Willis and I defended him since I felt that a lot of things that were said in this post could not be verified or were (likely) wrong. By mistake I emailed this letter, to Greg - whereupon Greg immediately came back, argued my defense (how shortsighted I was - that I did not know etc. etc.) yet, he asked me whether I would want to become his spiritual student etc. etc. He also included a few lessons of what I had to do in order to be accepted. I did not know what to do and sent him a nice reply; basically turning down his offer. I did not want to offend him. He followed up by telling me that I, under no circumstances, was ready for him and that I would have to work on myself for many more years. It became offensive yet again. Well, I really do not need to be a student to a man who threatened me with all kinds of stuff and who used foulest language against me. So, do I need to say more? Of course, we are on a continent on which free speech is protected (- in the US - I forget which XYZ Amendment), and that is beautiful. But I do not need to be 'amended' by any personal attack(s) - and that is that. There are other statements of Greg's that do not fit BD; I do not have the time to play detective. He is 'free' to say what he thinks and whoever uses his info will have to check it him/herself (as should be done with any info that comes across the Web and BDNOW) We all are exposed to a variety of challenges (mental, physical, financial etc. etc.) and Greg has his, I am sure. I understand that there may be a person (or two) on this list that communicate with Greg Willis on a regular basis; and I hear that they are preparing a case against those who, apparently, attack him slanderously. I do not know of any slanderous attacks on Greg Willis. His attacks on me have been composted and are, now, well rotted. With kind regards: Ferdinand Vondruska PS I am pretty sure I never sent that quote via BDNOW! Where did you get it from? Geoff Heinricks wrote: > >Agsyn.com is working with Greg Willis and, as far as I am concerned, many > >things > >are amiss there. Regards Ferdinand > > Ferdinand, > > >From what I've seen, you're not one to shy away from fully outlining your > reasons. I'd appreciate your thoughts on how and why you've come to this > conclusion. > > Cheers, > Geoff Heinricks > Prince Edward Co > Ontario -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 22:09:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04251 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA26466; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA26121 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:57:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep2-163-80.intrepid.net [209.190.163.80]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA29517 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:59:10 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199903020138.UAA16590@sherman.shentel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:00:45 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Plant List Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 837 Dear Jim - I have yet to receive the plant list from C. Here's my info: Allan Balliett BD NOW! POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-2373 (304) 876-9414 FAX Thanks! -Allan From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 22:09:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04252 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:09:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA26388; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:58:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.javanet.com (mail1.javanet.com [205.219.162.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA25327 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:54:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from srmiso (armory-us1450.javanet.com [209.94.153.199]) by mail1.javanet.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA20797 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:56:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003101be6458$3aec0ac0$c7995ed1@srmiso> From: "Christian Elwell" To: Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:56:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 838 Thanks Ferdinand, I am looking forward to learning more on this. Am leaving the list until end of March. Christian -----Original Message----- From: Ferdinand Vondruska To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 10:57 AM Subject: Re: Bioneering 'Smoke good' >Dear Christian, >We are in the process of setting up a Web site and translating a lot of >their (HERAs) researches into English, however, being shorthanded (in about >everything I can think of) makes the process a slow one, indeed. But, >knowing that there are large numbers of people out there who are interested, >may speed up the process. Regards Ferdinand > >Christian Elwell wrote: > >> Thank you Ferdinand for reference to the German site. Unfortunately I do >> not know enough Deutsch to translate the site. Anything you are able to >> glean from the site or from your forester to share with the list in >> English I am sure would be most welcome by all, and 'twould be a >> positive path of action for many of us in the face of GE scares etc. >> onward, Christian > > > >-- > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- > >FRIENDS: >To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows >(feedlots, AI, hormones, >excessive use of antibioticas, fast-breeding, feeding of meat and sileage >etc.), 1999 is: >MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, >references, statistics >or your personal observations and stories related to cows. >I thank you for your help. > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 22:55:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA05072 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:55:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA06149; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:46:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from connect1.reach.net (root@connect1.reach.net [204.50.58.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA04690 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:40:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.186.53.57] (E59.reach.net [206.186.53.59]) by connect1.reach.net (8.9.1-wasp/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA04909 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:42:11 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:42:11 -0500 X-Sender: ghein@mail.reach.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: ghein@reach.net (Geoff Heinricks) Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 839 >WITHOUT PREJUDICE > > >Dear Geoff, >etc > >PS I am pretty sure I never sent that quote via BDNOW! Where did you get it >from? Thanks for responding with some detail Ferdinand. The quote did end up on the BDNOW! list, on 22 Feb, so I took note. Mainly because I'm specifically interested in learning about BD applications in vineyards, and Greg had contacted me after my earlier post pointing out Agsyn was starting up, so the sort of unexpanded or fleshed out comment you made made me curious. To a newcomer, it certainly does seem at times you BDers really can get caught up in fussin' and a-feudin'! Cheers & Regards Geoff H From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 23:39:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05761 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:39:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA16820; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:29:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA15336 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:23:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0202.direct.ca ([204.244.83.18] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10HgkU-0004dZ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:25:38 -0800 Message-ID: <36DB6727.8663B7E3@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 20:20:55 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 840 It appears so, Geoff - we are a motley crew. Although, I am trying to avoid fussin' and kickin - it does not make sense. And, if you ever catch me kickin' and fussin'- kick me. I shall be forever thankful! Regarding my quote, I checked my e-mail file and found that I appear to have emailed that particular sentence to someone whom I consider to be my friend. No harm done! Well, email letters do appear to stick around for a while - a true learning process. Hope, all is well in your vineyards. Regards Ferdinand Geoff Heinricks wrote: > >WITHOUT PREJUDICE > > > > > >Dear Geoff, > >etc > > > >PS I am pretty sure I never sent that quote via BDNOW! Where did you get it > >from? > > Thanks for responding with some detail Ferdinand. The quote did end up on > the BDNOW! list, on 22 Feb, so I took note. Mainly because I'm specifically > interested in learning about BD applications in vineyards, and Greg had > contacted me after my earlier post pointing out Agsyn was starting up, so > the sort of unexpanded or fleshed out comment you made made me curious. > > To a newcomer, it certainly does seem at times you BDers really can get > caught up in fussin' and a-feudin'! > > Cheers & Regards > Geoff H -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 23:39:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05773 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:39:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA16750; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:28:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA15220 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:23:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.69]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:25:45 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:25:20 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page Message-ID: <548B88660C1D83FD852567280018020B.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 841 Hello Geoff, Bd-er's are just like other folks in being able to get caught up in thinking they are more "right" or more "moral" or more "intelligent" or more "self actualized" than the other guy! (or gal) It's always a good idea to check your information and learn to think for yourself and to withold judgement, practice compassion and remain openminded! Best Regards, JS ghein@reach.net (Geoff Heinricks) on 03/01/99 10:42:11 PM Please respond to bdnow@envirolink.org To: bdnow@envirolink.org cc: Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page >WITHOUT PREJUDICE > > >Dear Geoff, >etc > >PS I am pretty sure I never sent that quote via BDNOW! Where did you get it >from? Thanks for responding with some detail Ferdinand. The quote did end up on the BDNOW! list, on 22 Feb, so I took note. Mainly because I'm specifically interested in learning about BD applications in vineyards, and Greg had contacted me after my earlier post pointing out Agsyn was starting up, so the sort of unexpanded or fleshed out comment you made made me curious. To a newcomer, it certainly does seem at times you BDers really can get caught up in fussin' and a-feudin'! Cheers & Regards Geoff H From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 1 23:54:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA06084 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:54:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA19378; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:43:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17823 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:37:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from MSN/jdelly1 - 208.250.161.176 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:39:25 -0800 Message-ID: <001e01be6465$e1249c60$b0a1fad0@MSN/jdelly1> From: "John Delly" To: Subject: Re: BDnow Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:33:42 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 842 UNSUBSCRIBE BDNOW From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 08:42:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA12218 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:42:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA06999; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:32:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from node21.frontiernet.net (node21.frontiernet.net [209.130.129.196]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04977 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:09:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (as5200-1-37.vir.wi.frontiernet.net [209.130.160.179]) by node21.frontiernet.net (8.8.8a/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA359376 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:11:17 -0500 From: "Ocooch Mtn. Acres / Ken & Ruth Rupp" To: Subject: RE: Be nice! & Maple Trees Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:04:02 -0600 Message-ID: <003001be64ad$25c8f7c0$cda082d1@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <548B88660C1D83FD852567280018020B.0000000000000000@webcity> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 843 To a newcomer, it certainly does seem at times you BDers really can get caught up in fussin' and a-feudin'! Cheers & Regards Geoff H It appears so, Geoff - we are a motley crew. Although, I am trying to avoid fussin' and kickin - it does not make sense. And, if you ever catch me kickin' and fussin'- kick me. I shall be forever thankful! Regards Ferdinand Hello Geoff, It's always a good idea to check your information and learn to think for yourself and to withold judgement, practice compassion and remain openminded! Best Regards, JS Dear fellow BD farmers - I would like to echo the thoughts of these 3 excerpts that I have taken out of BDNOW messages that I received in the first 24 hours after I subscribed to this list server. We really need to be kinder and gentler! When I attended the Annual International Biodynamic Agriculture Conference at Rudolph Steiner's Gotheanum in Dornach, Switzerland the first week of February 1999, one thing was obvious - the people were very kind and loving. BE NICE !! I'm a new comer to this, but I thought that we all were to love and respect each other?? Hope you are not offended by my comments. Just a thought from a newcomer. RGR MAPLE TREES: I am very happy with the messages concerning trees and the feedback I have already received concerning maple forests. In particular I appreciate the messages from Barry Carter (your poem was great) and Ferdinand (thanks for the lead on the National Geographic article). I am looking forward to communicating with you all more in about a month - AFTER maple syrup season is over! Right now I'm just enjoying spending from sunrise to moonrise in the maple forest. Last night (March 1st ) it was beautiful - I wish you all could have been with me - I sat in the woods and watched the round moon rise through the bare branches of the maple trees. When I read the excerpt provided by Pat Hironimus... > "...periodic disturbance is needed to maintain soil > cover and to keep plants fresh... > plants neither grazed nor trampled choke to death > under old leaves and > stems that will not decay for years. In the past, > this disturbance was > provided by large herds of grazing/trampling animals-, > elk, deer, zebra, wildebeest, buffalo, kangaroos, and so on" > * I thought of all the leaves on the ground in the forest that we are disturbing as we walk through the woods caring for the maple trees. We also have lots of wild animals that are disturbing the leaves on the forest ground - we see evidence of deer throughout the forest. Thanks to Pat also for letting us know about the web site. Well, time for me to go spend more time with the maple trees! You all have a good day and BE NICE !! Sent from the Ocooch Mountains and Kickapoo River Valley of Wisconsin with Love - RGR From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 08:42:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA12226 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:42:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA07108; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:32:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd44.hotmail.com [207.82.252.108]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA05648 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:19:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 16604 invoked by uid 0); 2 Mar 1999 13:21:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19990302132112.16603.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 1999 05:21:11 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Off:and water Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 05:21:11 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 844 And even the youngest of children understand; each time the tolit is flushed -it must be refilled. Author Unknown. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 08:42:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA12237 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:42:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA07192; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:33:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA05889 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:22:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.129] (pm3shep3-163-129.intrepid.net [209.190.163.129]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01976 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:24:54 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:09:50 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 845 Dear Ferdinand - Just for the record - - and just so interested parties do not worry about which friend betrayed you - - you did post the quote in question directly to BD Now! on November 22. -Allan >Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:22:51 -0800 >From: Ferdinand Vondruska >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page >Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org > >Agsyn.com is working with Greg Willis and, as far as I am concerned, many >things >are amiss there. Regards Ferdinand > > > >PatandLiz@aol.com wrote: > >> Anyone checking out this web page is mislead by the statement that >>Topolos >> Vineyard was the first one in the United States to be certified >>Biodynamic. In >> fact, Marian Farms was the first vineyard, by one year, to be certified >> Biodynamic. And it happened to be bythe Demeter Association. Also, to my >>best >> knowledge, Frey Vineyards was the first to put out Biodynamic Zinfandel. >> Caveat emptor....Patrick > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 09:17:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA12961 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:17:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA16490; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:08:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.better.net (mail.better.net [207.245.208.132]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12568 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:54:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from better.net ([207.245.209.13]) by mail.better.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 1-666L) with ESMTP id AAA570 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:51:14 -0500 Message-ID: <36DBF4AE.DBCC0438@better.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 09:24:50 -0500 From: Maltman Family X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Highland cattle References: <10DC5A105471@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 846 Hi Anita I just read your post and thought (if you've not heard of this breed) that you mght be interested in disseminating info on the breed of Highland cattle that at have survived as a pure strain in Britain. There are some breeders in Canada, also The Queen is the most famous of the breeders across the pond. It is lower in saturated fat than chicken, tastes wonderful and seems to me a good bet for anyone that is a meat eater looking for beef untainted by mad cow disease... or any kind of manipulation hormonally, etc. Sorry I can't give you addresses, as it was in an article in a magazine I read somewhere (can't just now recall where). I'm sure it is the subject of a website somewhere... Sue Maltman Toronto maojiemin@better.net Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > I just wanted to share with you all that yesterday, while phoning > people regarding a project I'm doing on organic ag here at the > university, I came across the most interesting beef farmer (400 acres > in Lousianna) who has done all the feasibility studies and worked out > a wonderful plan for a very profitable farmer cooperative that > includes the processing plant to sell organic beef. His original > study was for export to Japan, but there are many possibilities. He > said that his goal was to able to assure the member farmers of > $1.00/lb live weight which he says would be a decent living for a > beef farmer. He's very willing to talk all the details with anyone > who would be interested. The crucial part is that it demands farmer > cooperation, and this is where he's running into difficulty, not to > mention protest by all the current middle men in the conventional > beef biz. If anyone out there is interested, I'll be happy to pass > along the information. > > Anita > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 09:33:01 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13228 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:33:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA20924; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:23:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17796 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:13:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Hpwx-0002Wb-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 06:15:08 -0800 Message-ID: <36DBF11C.33E84A5C@direct.ca> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 06:09:32 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 847 Dear Allan, I accept that and add to this that I still stand for what I've said (glad that you brought me up to speed) Kind regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > Dear Ferdinand - > > Just for the record - - and just so interested parties do not worry about > which friend betrayed you - - you did post the quote in question directly > to BD Now! on November 22. > > -Allan > > >Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:22:51 -0800 > >From: Ferdinand Vondruska > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >To: bdnow@envirolink.org > >Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page > >Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org > >Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org > > > >Agsyn.com is working with Greg Willis and, as far as I am concerned, many > >things > >are amiss there. Regards Ferdinand > > > > > > > >PatandLiz@aol.com wrote: > > > >> Anyone checking out this web page is mislead by the statement that > >>Topolos > >> Vineyard was the first one in the United States to be certified > >>Biodynamic. In > >> fact, Marian Farms was the first vineyard, by one year, to be certified > >> Biodynamic. And it happened to be bythe Demeter Association. Also, to my > >>best > >> knowledge, Frey Vineyards was the first to put out Biodynamic Zinfandel. > >> Caveat emptor....Patrick > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 10:40:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA14954 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:40:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA06812; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:30:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05984 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:26:51 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hQXZa02498 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:27:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38a9623a.36dc0363@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:27:31 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Study L3:2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 848 To Margaret Kemp: In answer to your question I am enlarging the quote from "The Work of the Angels in Man's Astral Body", R.Steiner. Although it has more social focus, I did find a certain "nitrogen" quality therein. By the way, the booklet is normally available from Anthroposphic Press, temporarily out of print Christine (abbreviated, pages 8-10) ...these beings form pictures in the human astral body. Under the guidance of the Spirits of Form (Exusiai) the Angels form pictures. Unless we reach the level of imaginative cognition we do not know that pictures are all the time being formed in our astral body. They rise and pass away, burt without them there would be no evolution into the future...The Spirits of Form are obliged to unfold in pictures to begin with what they desire to achieve with us during Earth evolution and beyond. And then later on, the pictures become reality in a humanity transformed...If we are able to scrutinize these pictures, it becomes evident that they are woven in accordance with quite definite impulses and principles...it is clear that they have a very definite plan for the future configuration of social life on earth...And indeed in forming these pictures the Angels work on a definite principle, namely, that in the future no human being is to find peace in the enjoyment of happiness if others are unhappy. An impulse of brother and sisterhood in the absolute sense...is to be the governing principle of the social conditions in physical existence. That is the one principle in accordance with which the angels form the pictures in our astral body. But there is a second impulse...that in future times every human being shall see in each and everyone a hidden divinity. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 11:16:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA15801 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:16:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA14732; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:06:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12146 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:55:24 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GUVCa19764 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:56:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:56:55 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: OFF: banking Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 849 I am not sure whether this is important or of interest, but just received it from Dr. Incao's office. Is there any way to verify? From: DrIncao To: rgiraldo@cdiusa.com, Lilipoh, info@909shot.com I thought this might interest you! Ann office support ----------------- Forwarded Message: Subj: Fwd: NEW BANKING REGULATIONS Date: 99-03-01 16:56:09 EST From: Anncollene To: DrIncao, DrEmilyM, ILOVEMILA This was forwarded to me. I thought everyone should know! ----------------- Forwarded Message: Subj: NEW BANKING REGULATIONS Date: 99-03-01 11:46:11 EST From: chris@netoasis.com (Chris Marriott Lawrence) To: lishshawna@aol.com CC: anncollene@aol.com, cptbligh1@earthlink.net, rim@rimcyclery.com, deutsch@rof.net, digger@rof.net, efulker@holly.colostate.edu, gpace@rof.net, baxter@nconnect.net, hhurst@sopris.net, AZampini@aol.com, ogilvy@gbn.org, jbier@rof.net, jerryjo@csn.net, jamiefowler@worldnet.att.net, kathryn@sopris.net, KEN70@aol.com, cyr@sopris.net, lonw@rof.net, mcmbauer@rof.net, matchael@rof.net, mauryp@concentric.net, togilvy@yahoo.com, steph@patm.com, manchee@rof.net, tfulker@sopris.net, wshea@uswest.com, wizard@sopris.net >Importance: high > > >> FYI. I received the following info from a co-worker. It's hard to believe >> that something like this could actually be implemented in an efficient and >> secure manner. Big Brother is watching you. >> _____________ >> >> >> >> > > Subject: Proposed Regulation >> > > >> > > I'm not in the habit of sending "serious" e-mails asking people to get >> > > involved. >> > > However, I just found out about a proposed banking regulation up for >> > > consideration that seriously intrudes on our private lives. It's so >> > > intrusive, >> > > I've decide to speak up and send this to you in hopes that you'll act >> > > on it and >> > > forward it to as many people as you can. You only have until March 8th >> > > to voice >> > > your objections. In 1998, a "Know Your Customer" banking Bill was >> > > defeated in >> > > the House of Representatives. The federal government, namely the FDIC >> > > and >> > > Treasury, >> > > quietly took the regulation and decided to implement it without >> > > congressional >> > > approval. It has silently made it's way to the public comment phase, >> > > and very >> > > few people (including many of your representatives, bank employees, >> > > etc.) are >> > > even aware it's out there. If implemented, this regulation will have a >> > > significant and far reaching affect on your everyday life. >> > > >> > > Here are a just few of the highlights of the proposed "Know Your >> > > Customer" >> > > regulation. I've included a link below that has all the details (this >> > > is only >> > > the small part of the regulation). Bank customers (you) will be >> > > required to >> > > reveal all sources of revenue (income)that you deposit in the bank. >> > > Accounts >> > > will be monitored to evaluate actual deposits compared against >> > > projections. You >> > > must provide them with your projected income and sources. Banks will >> > > establish >> > > profiles, classifications, and categorizations on every person who has >> > > an >> > > account based on information supplied by the customer (you) and other >> > > gathered >> > > information. All customers will be compared against the subjective >> > > classifications. Perceived anomalies in deposits or withdrawals (that >> > > means any >> > > time your spending habits change, even for a day) will be reported as >> > > "suspicious activity." In short, the bank or credit union will >> > > establish a >> > > baseline for you that identifies when and how you usually receive and >> > > spend your >> > > money. If you normally withdraw $100 from the ATM every Friday night, >> > > that will >> > > be part of your profile. If you decide one Friday to withdraw $700 for >> > > a weekend >> > > trip or to make a purchase, you will have deviated from your normal >> > > spending >> > > pattern, and the bank will be required to file a suspicious >> > > transaction report >> > > to the federal government. >> > > >> > > Banks are prohibited from informing customers when suspicious >> > > transaction >> > > reports have been filed on them. If you do not "volunteer" to be >> > > identified, you >> > > will be denied all banking services. If you believe in your 4th >> > > Amendment right >> > > privacy, I urge you to read the specifics below, and contact the >> > > agencies listed >> > > at the bottom of this message with your strong objections. This is >> > > your only >> > > chance to >> > > stop the regulation. Public comments will only be accepted through >> > > March 8th. >> > > >> > > Here the complete details of what the regulation includes-it's worth >> > > your time >> > > to read it: >> > > >> > > > >> > > http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page1b/fp-kyc-summary.html >> > > >> > > > >> > > http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page1b/fp-kyc-summary.html >> > > >> > > > >> > > Comments will be taken from the public by these agencies until March >> > > 8, 1999. >> > > >> > > Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation >> > > Robert E. Feldman >> > > Executive Secretary >> > > Attention: Comments/OES >> > > comments@fdic.gov >> > > mailto:comments@fdic.gov >> > > >> > > or >> > > >> > > Department of the Treasury >> > > Manager, Dissemination Branch >> > > Information Management and Services Division >> > > Office of Thrift Supervision >> > > public.info@ots.treas.gov >> > > mailto:public.info@ots.treas.gov >> > > >> > > Department of the Treasury >> > > Communications Division >> > > Office of the Comptroller of the Currency >> > > regs.comments@occ.treas.gov >> > > mailto:regs.comments@occ.treas.gov >> > > mailto:regs.comments@occ.treas.gov> >> > > >> > > If you're so inclined, find out who your Representatives are, and >> > > e-mail your >> > > concerns to them as well. >> > > >> > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 11:16:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA15807 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA14875; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:06:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13841 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:02:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp48.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.148]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA02914 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:02:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <00c501be64c6$09f7f5a0$944b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: Acres article on Fluoride Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:02:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 850 Dear All, Just received the latest issue of ACRES and was really "happy" to see the topic of "The Last Word" was sodium fluoride. It gives the historical background on how this aluminum industry byproduct came into every possible home via toothpaste & water. I remember getting some very strange looks when I asked that my children be omitted from the fluoride program a number of years ago, that was administered by the public elementary school...luckily I'd already heard that this produced a docility, and is said to have been used by Hitler to make the masses helpless against domination. It is hard to dispose of but easily diluted, and based on some VERY questionable "scientific" studies shown to be dental enhancing. The article goes on to expose the equally questionable death of a very vocal opponent to fluoride treatments for military personnel - (can't win wars with docile troops, I wouldn't think, but OTOH, they'd certainly be willing to follow any sort of orders...hmmm, that IS a tough one!) I would advise anyone using commercial toothpaste to look at the label. You will be hard-pressed to find toothpaste without fluoride in it, but a particularly upsetting item I found once, a very colorful tube of children's toothpaste (the stuff is blue with SPARKLES in it - terribly attractive) indicates in small print, that anything larger than a pea-sized portion can be toxic to small children, keep out of their reach & if ingested, call poison control, etc. etc. This is outrageous! Is there a way to remove fluoride from one's water supply? Perhaps a chemically-informed person knows if it is concentrated or dissipated through boiling? Can a water supply be tested for fluoride, and by whom? (Say, what about flowforms...might they reduce fluoride levels?) Thanks for any further info that might be out there... Julie From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 11:41:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA16241 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:41:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA20380; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:31:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.152]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19551 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:27:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.18.13]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:29:51 +0000 Message-ID: <36DAC37C.33EB@cwcom.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 16:42:36 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: L3/Organic chemistry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 851 Just to amplify the introductory part of Hugh's comprehensive posting: "organic" chemistry originally meant that which was carried out by living organisms. It was accepted dogma that, being the work of God, this couldn't be imitated by mere human chemists - so the synthesis of urea not only signalled the start of a new branch of chemistry, but was regarded as a triumph of science over religion. It's just plain confusing that the label "organic" now also implies a triumph of natural methods over synthetic treatments (so that ill-informed although well-intentioned amateur gardeners now declare that they use only organic chemicals... ) Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 12:09:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16877 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:08:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA26308; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21615 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:36:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id LAA28384 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:38:33 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:38:19 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CFBE@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'biodynamic'" Subject: please vote on tree/hedge for my Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:38:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 852 i'd like to get your BD votes on an appropriate plant (tinyfor the south side of my house, to be grown in a 7-10ft X 20ft space, plus about 10-20 feet high, between the side of the house and my vegetable garden. please toss out any names of plants i should check into and what kind they are... fyi, one nursery has suggested perhaps a pine (emerald green arborvitae), rose of sharon, or camelliah. requirements: keeps North Carolina house cooler in summer, but same or warmer in winter is beneficial or neutral for garden vegetables is beneficial or neutral for garden vegetables grows well in partial summer shade, with midday sun and in full winter sun is not a vine that i'd have to grow ON the house itself, or one that i'd have to know how to grow and manage, or one that would take much maintenance is beneficial or neutral for garden vegetables From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 12:18:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17109 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:18:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28216; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:07:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail2.teleport.com (mail2.teleport.com [192.108.254.43]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA27804 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:05:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:05:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903021705.MAA27804@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 13473 invoked from network); 2 Mar 1999 17:07:50 -0000 Received: from i48-28-01.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO DAVE) (216.26.8.193) by mail2.teleport.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 1999 17:07:50 -0000 X-Sender: drobison@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Dave Robison Subject: Re: Acres article on Fluoride Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 853 At 10:02 AM 3/2/99 -0600, Julie wrote: >Is there a way to remove fluoride from one's water supply? Perhaps a >chemically-informed person knows if it is concentrated or dissipated through >boiling? Not easily and no. Its in an ion form and cant be easily removed. You can remove it (and all other dissolved ions) with an ion exchange resin. Useful for chem labs that need chemically pure water, but not too practical for households because it needs regular recharge and maintenance. Water softeners are another type of ion exchange resin, they are set up to remove metal ions. You might contact a water softener company and ask if they can supply other types of ion exchange resins. >Can a water supply be tested for fluoride, and by whom? Yes, any water testing lab. But first just call your water dept and ask them if they use fluoride. ================ Dave Robison Stellar Processes From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 13:08:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18136 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:08:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA08179; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:57:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd39.hotmail.com [207.82.252.103]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA07701 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:55:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 25809 invoked by uid 0); 2 Mar 1999 17:57:11 -0000 Message-ID: <19990302175711.25808.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 1999 09:57:07 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: L3/Organic chemistry Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 09:57:07 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 854 Tony, Would you mind if Itake this a little further: I believe that this is where Biodynamics separates itself from the modern Chemical methods. When bonding is done through industrial like processes to take carbon and bond it to other material, no thought is taken to consider whether or not the carbon or nitrogen is living or dead. Biodynamics looks to the living ethers not just everything lumped into one broad classification under a word such as Nitrogen. Since I am not familiar with the processes that are used to achieve modern Chemistry Carbon bonding, I cannot take this any further than this. I will leave it up to people like Hugh Lovel to contrast the difference in processes, because that is where I feel that Biodynamics separates itself off. Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 13:22:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18622 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:22:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA10525; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:13:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10180 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:10:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.116.87] (client-151-196-116-87.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.87]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28474 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:12:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903021812.NAA28474@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 12:56:40 -0500 Subject: Re: GEO Consensus - BDNow From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id NAA10181 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 855 Dear Colleagues, This thread was initiated on Feb. 17, just after the New Moon eclipse at 27 Aquarius 08. The Moon is full now in Leo, just beginning to wane. Clearly there's not much energy for the task or the thread. So far. Still, I remain faithful to the notion that we have somethingand important and life-giving (Leo) to say collectively (Aquarius) on the subject of genetic engineering, food, and the Earth. And it would be a help to humanity to make it available widely on the net (Aquarius). I am permeated with the sense that there are aspects to the GE question that can only be penetrated and brought to the light of understanding by the biodynamic impulse. The whole vast range of ideas and insights regularly vented on our list convinces me that -- together -- we can do a nice job of it. Thus, I will continue to support this thread with watchful and prayerful editorial attention for another five weeks or so, until April 15, 1999. That's not just tax day, but also the day before the New Moon at 25 Aries 45 Pax, Steven >To: bdnow@envirolink.org >Subject: GEO Consensus - BDNow >Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999, 2:54 PM > > Embryonic Draft #1 >>( P.S. My assumption is that there must be a dozen or more better ways to > express and complete what I have tried to put into words here -- and many > dozen more valuable insights, arguments, and observations that can be added > unto it. I'm not attached to the words -- so don't let this start inhibit > any one. > > So please: propose, rewrite, revise and counter-propose away. Let the > weaving begin! I'll do my best to keep track and organize the evolving > statement.) > > BDNow Statement on Genetic Engineering and Food > We, the undersigned participants on the BDNow electronic mail group, make > the following collective statement about genetically engineered organisms, > seeds, plants, and animals: > > We understand that there is a unifying wisdom spread out in nature, and that > this wisdom has led to the gradual evolution of a multitude of healthy > living organisms which populate the earth, including the human beings. > > We recognize that human beings are in a complex physical and spiritual > relationship with all of these organisms, and that our mutual survival, > health, and evolution depends upon the integrity of these relationships. > > This wisdom of nature -- understood by some as the wisdom of Spirit -- far > surpasses the accumulated value of data that provide the foundation for GEO > experimentation and propagation. Yet this wisdom is systematically > overlooked in the large organizations and laboratories which are > increasingly engineering the gene pool and thereby radically altering the > basic character of plant and animal nature, and of human food. > > We recognize that: > > … Little is known about the possible short- and long-term effects of GEOs on > human health and the environment. > > … There are profound risks to animals and humans -- such as the spread of > toxins, allergies or resistance to antibiotics -- from the ingestion of > genetically modified food. > > … Genetically engineered organisms threaten to overtake and displace native > species, reducing the variety of the gene pool. > > … Genetically engineered organisms could potentially cause profound > mutations in the genetic structure of the plant, animal, and human realms -- > and thereby dull or even destroy the patterns and impulses set in motion by > the wisdom of Spirit. > > > We stand in unified opposition to the disrespectful and fundamentally > anti-democratic impulse of business and science to rush these experiments > out into the natural world, and into the food chain for humans and animals > with no notice, no debate, and no choice. > > ######## > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 13:23:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18636 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:23:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA10607; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:13:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10193 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:10:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.116.87] (client-151-196-116-87.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.87]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28483 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:12:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903021812.NAA28483@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 13:10:18 -0500 Subject: Off: Saturn enters Taurus From: "Steven McFadden" To: BD now Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 856 Hi, just a note to let folks know that Saturn entered Taurus today, and will pace its way through the sign of the Bull until well into 2001. Since Taurus is so intimately associated with the agricultural impulse, and with the cow, this celestial event is worthy of a farmer's attention. Saturn brings focus -- you have GOT to deal with the issues it touches. Saturn brings physical realities into sharp and unavoidable relief. The true status of agriculture should thus become an issue that America, and all of the world, must confront. Head on. No escape. The positive Saturn themes are to deepen, to redefine, and to restructure. Keeping those themes in mind helps one to work with the Saturn energies, rather than to feel boxed in or thwarted by them. In addition to his elegant geometric Theorem, Greek mathematician Pythagoras also propounded this idea: "Limts give form to the Limitless." Limits -- that's a Saturn key word. It's archetype is now to bear upon all matters Taurean, including farms and farmers. Best, Steven www.wisdom-conservancy.org From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 13:25:47 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18709 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:25:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11032; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:15:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10958 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:15:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.239]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990302181832.TTLP3226200.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:18:32 +1300 Message-ID: <36DC2B91.4F09@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 07:18:57 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: STUDY L3:2 -organic chemistry -2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 857 Hugh Thank you for your reply on organic chemistry. I appreciate CHO, sugars and fats etc are all products of living organisms. From your reply (and other thoughts), is it correct to conclude that all living organisms make use of and need nitrogen to exist? Naturally if it is not in the soil then it is easily extracted from the atmosphere. Even fungi and mosses in N depleted soils could get what they need from the air etc. So anyway is this an appropriate conclusion. Cheers Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 13:41:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA19005 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:41:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14162; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:31:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.niehs.nih.gov (root@cliff.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14004 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:30:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from della.niehs.nih.gov (della.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.14.42]) by cliff.niehs.nih.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.1/NIEHS-1.0) with ESMTP id NAA02155 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:33:01 -0500 Received: by della.niehs.nih.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:32:47 -0500 Message-ID: <8DD3D27DC6A5D111823200A0C955FB4001C2CFBF@drucker.niehs.nih.gov> From: "James.Olivia" To: "'biodynamic'" Subject: please vote on tree/hedge for my house Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:32:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 858 for clarity, i'm reposting this. sorry for sending a draft by the way, the garden i'm refering to is the one i asked you all about cultivating earlier this year, with hardpan clay. shows how much i know. i found some earthworms!! this is going to be beautiful. she'll teach me, i know, bit by bit. _____________________________________________ > i'd like to get your BD votes on an appropriate plant for the south > side of my house, to be grown in a 7-10ft X 20ft space, plus about 10-20 > feet high, between the side of the house and my vegetable garden. please > toss out any names of plants i should check into and what kind they are... > > > fyi, one nursery has suggested perhaps a pine (emerald green arborvitae), > rose of sharon, or camelliah. > > requirements: > keeps North Carolina house cooler in summer, but same or warmer in winter > is beneficial or neutral for garden vegetables > is beneficial or neutral for garden vegetables > grows well in partial summer shade, with midday sun and in full winter sun > is not a vine that i'd have to grow ON the house itself, or one that i'd > have to know how to grow and manage, or one that would take much > maintenance > is beneficial or neutral for garden vegetables > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 14:40:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20315 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:40:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25399; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:31:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd102.hotmail.com [207.82.252.166]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA25123 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:29:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 5287 invoked by uid 0); 2 Mar 1999 19:31:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19990302193110.5286.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:31:10 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Off: Saturn enters Taurus Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:31:10 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 859 Steven, This is interesting: How does this work; Saturn in Bull until 2001? Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 15:49:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA22061 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:49:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07461; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:37:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06777 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:33:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.116.89] (client-151-196-116-89.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.89]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08624 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:35:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903022035.PAA08624@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:34:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Off: Saturn enters Taurus From: "Steven McFadden" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 860 Dear Steven, I believe you must be talking about the tropical zodiac, not the actual placement of the planets and stars in the sky. (Since saturn is actually at 5* Aries, up in the sky/sidereally speaking.) How do you see these two perspectives working together? I'm sending this personally to you, since I appreciate you input and am not trying to start another "difference of opinions" thread. Thanks for any clarification on your perspective you can bring. Marta Hi Marta, Thought I might as well take the discussion public. Yes, I am referring to the tropical zodiac, as do most American astrologers. I realize -- as do other astrologers -- that these placements have progressed since the time long ago when the Zodiac was first described -- but I also know that it works. Go figure. How does that square with the present-day placements (favored by BD practitioners, I believe)? That question, I fear, is beyond my ken. Perhaps not at all. Or then again, perhaps someone will enlighten the both of us. Best regards, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 15:49:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA22077 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:49:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07929; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:39:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (sar-alpha.xcelco.on.ca [209.167.188.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07510 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:37:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from haggerty (modem-140.xcelco.on.ca [205.206.216.140]) by sarnia.xcelco.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA05747 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:38:22 GMT From: "Ken, Jean Huffman" To: Subject: Re: please vote on tree/hedge for my Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:38:18 -0800 Message-ID: <01be6505$c01b2980$LocalHost@haggerty> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 861 ---- >fyi, one nursery has suggested perhaps a pine (emerald green arborvitae), >rose of sharon, or camelliah. > >requirements: >keeps North Carolina house cooler in summer, but same or warmer in winter >is beneficial or neutral for garden vegetables >is beneficial or neutral for garden vegetables >grows well in partial summer shade, with midday sun and in full winter sun >is not a vine that i'd have to grow ON the house itself, or one that i'd >have to know how to grow and manage, or one that would take much maintenance >is beneficial or neutral for garden vegetables > > Might I suggest a flowering dogwood? Jean Ontario Canada From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 15:58:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA22331 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:58:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09747; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:49:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09565 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:48:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp13.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.113]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA27879 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:48:12 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <009101be64ed$e56ff8e0$714b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Re: Off: Saturn enters Taurus Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:47:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 862 Careful...Tropical vs. Sidereal is like politics or religion, and tropically speaking nearly-stationing rx Mercury goes into Aries tomorrow...could "fire" some heated communications, no? :-) Julie >Dear Steven, > >I believe you must be talking about the tropical zodiac, not the actual >placement of the planets and stars in the sky. (Since saturn is actually at >5* >Aries, up in the sky/sidereally speaking.) > >How do you see these two perspectives working together? > >I'm sending this personally to you, since I appreciate you input and am not >trying to start another "difference of opinions" thread. > >Thanks for any clarification on your perspective you can bring. > >Marta > > >Hi Marta, >Thought I might as well take the discussion public. > >Yes, I am referring to the tropical zodiac, as do most American astrologers. >I realize -- as do other astrologers -- that these placements have >progressed since the time long ago when the Zodiac was first described -- >but I also know that it works. Go figure. > >How does that square with the present-day placements (favored by BD >practitioners, I believe)? That question, I fear, is beyond my ken. >Perhaps not at all. Or then again, perhaps someone will enlighten the both >of us. > >Best regards, Steven > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Mar 2 23:51:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA00763 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:51:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA15681; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15095 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:26:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.42] (pm3shep1-163-42.intrepid.net [209.190.163.42]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA13520 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:28:28 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:30:11 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: JPI Recommendations Published on WWW Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 863 "Recommendations for Working with Crops, Sequential Spraying, and Ashing (For EST/U.S.A.) March and April, 1999 in the BD Farm or Garden "The times indicated are those adjudged by me to be the first choice periods for working the soil, applying the biodynamic preparations, sowing seed, or working with plants in general. Since not everyone will have an opportunity to take advantage of these periods, or will need to be working in the garden at other times, for daily indications please refer to Stella Natura 1999 or to Working with the Stars 1999. The Sequential Spray technique is described in Applied Biodynamics, Issue #6 and #25 (available from JPI for $5.00 each). For greater details on the ashing technique, please consult Work on the Land and the Constellations by Maria Thun. All publications mentioned are available from either JPI or the BIO-DYNAMIC Association." Thanks to Bruce Bumbarger of BIODYNAMICS journal for the html, thanks to Hugh Courtney for the wizardry, best dates for doing almost anything biodynamic for April and March are now available on the JPI homepage, available through BD Now! at http://www.igg.com/bdnow Enjoy! -Allan Balliett moderator BD NOW! igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 00:11:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA01058 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:11:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA29719; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:01:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29427 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:59:43 -0500 (EST) From: CWShade@aol.com Received: from CWShade@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LRAKa07784 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:55:37 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:55:37 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Off: Saturn enters Taurus Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 864 It was my 30th Birthday Mon. and boy do I feel wierd, like being disconnected from the mundane world I live in. Serious alienation and foreboding for the world, but then again, maybe that's standard issue with 30. How about Maury? Chris Shade From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 02:30:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA02563 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 02:30:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA11908; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 02:15:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11780 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 02:13:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem152.digisys.net [205.138.110.21]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA05729 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:15:47 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36DCE1EE.74DA5423@digisys.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 00:17:02 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Off: Saturn enters Taurus References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 865 Ah, sounds like a Saturn return does it not. Pat http://www.simplyhealthfarms.com CWShade@aol.com wrote: > It was my 30th Birthday Mon. and boy do I feel wierd, like being disconnected > from the mundane world I live in. Serious alienation and foreboding for the > world, but then again, maybe that's standard issue with 30. How about Maury? > > Chris Shade From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 09:30:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA06927 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:30:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA07339; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:20:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from dogbert.ipa.net (dogbert.ipa.net [205.218.170.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA07161 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:19:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from steved.ipa.net (pool-141.faye.ipa.net [206.27.222.141]) by dogbert.ipa.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA26851; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:22:02 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36DD4641.7DF1@ipa.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 08:25:05 -0600 From: Steve Diver Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org CC: Rebbry@aol.com Subject: Seeds, Phenology, Sequence of Bloom: Seed Balls Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 866 Spring is just around the corner, and seed planting time is underway in many parts of the country. A few topics I'm compiling links and references on this spring: *Low-input wildflower establishment (i.e., seed balls) *Seed treatments (biodynamic preparations, hydrogen peroxide, biostimulants, magnetism, bacteriazation, vibrational, aryuveda) *Phenology & Flowering Dates: sequence of bloom for wildflowers & perennials, phenology=degree days=insect emergence, natural seasonal phenomena correlated with plant phenology, crop planting dates correlated with plant phenology, pest management tricks correlated with plant phenology Especially if you have anything on seed treatments used in organic, sustainable, biodynamic farming systems, please forward them to me. Thanks! Steve Diver As a starting point, check out the very informative web page by Jim Bones on seed balls. It features awe inspiring photographs, earth restoration concepts and practices, wisdom from Masanobu Fukuoka, and cool web links. Note: There is 30-minute video titled "The Seed Ball Story." ============================================================== ============================================================== Jim Bones' "Light Writings" web page: http://www.seedballs.com/ [Agriculture - Art - Biodiversity - Earth Education - Fukuoka - Nature - Seed Balls - Watersheds - Wilderness] Seed Balls: A New Tool for Revegetation (Table of Contents) http://www.seedballs.com/tblcon.html Page 1. Seed Balls - Preface: New use of old ways, a tool for revegetation. Page 2. Seed Balls - Masanobu Fukuoka, Sensei of Natural Farming. Page 3. Seed Balls - I. What they are and how to make them. Page 4. Seed Balls - II. How to apply them. Page 5. Seed Balls - An introduction - Part A. Page 6. Seed Balls - An introduction - Part B. Page 7. Seed Balls - III. A word of caution. Page 8. Seed Balls - Sources of materials. Page 9. Seed Balls - The von Bachmayr Rotary Drum. Page 10. Seed Balls - The Seed Ball Story, an instructional video tape. Page 11. Seed Balls - Research, applications and related subjects. Page 12. Seed Balls - On A Green Mountain, a visit with Masanobu Fukuoka. ========================================================= From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 10:04:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07772 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:04:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA12807; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:55:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12744 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:55:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-9.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.10]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id GAA31289 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 06:57:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903031457.GAA31289@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 07:02:58 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: JPI Recommendations Published on WWW In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 867 Allan: Thanks very much to you and Bruce and Hugh! Very timely information... Woody At 10:30 PM 3/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >"Recommendations for Working with Crops, Sequential Spraying, and Ashing (For >EST/U.S.A.) > >March and April, 1999 in the BD Farm or Garden > >"The times indicated are those adjudged by me to be the first choice >periods for working the soil, applying the biodynamic preparations, sowing >seed, or working with plants in general. Since not everyone will have an >opportunity to take advantage of these periods, or will need to be working >in the garden at other times, for daily indications please refer to Stella >Natura 1999 or to Working with the Stars 1999. The Sequential Spray >technique is described in Applied Biodynamics, Issue #6 and #25 (available >from JPI for $5.00 each). For greater details on the ashing technique, >please consult Work on the Land and the Constellations by Maria Thun. All >publications mentioned are available from either JPI or the BIO-DYNAMIC >Association." > >Thanks to Bruce Bumbarger of BIODYNAMICS journal for the html, thanks to >Hugh Courtney for the wizardry, best dates for doing almost anything >biodynamic for April and March are now available on the JPI homepage, >available through BD Now! at http://www.igg.com/bdnow > >Enjoy! > >-Allan Balliett >moderator BD NOW! >igg@igg.com > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 10:26:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA08434 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:26:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA15959; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.accessa.net (root@bigbird.markettech.com [205.252.195.39]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15514 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:14:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.238.79.29] ([208.238.79.29]) by mail.accessa.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA14989 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:21:29 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: guy@frederickmd.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:24:07 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: guy@twelvestar.com (Guy McCarthy) Subject: Living Energies book Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 868 Andy wrote: >However I have found out that the Living Energies book is currently out of >print and I think there are probably some stores that still have stock, if >anybody knows where or has a suggestion where to buy it I welcome it, >Thanks. I received my copy as a gift quite recently. It was special ordered through Borders and arrived in about 2 weeks. What a fantastic book! The closest thing I've seen yet to an engineering handbook for the new millenium... Living Energies: An Exposition of Concepts Related to the Theories of Viktor Schauberger by Callum Coats Gateway Books, Bath, UK ISBN 0-946551-97-9 312 pages, plenty of diagrams and photos -Guy From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 12:25:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11866 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:25:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA07672; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:15:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA07047 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:12:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:12:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903031712.MAA07047@envirolink.org> Received: (qmail 15539 invoked from network); 3 Mar 1999 17:14:28 -0000 Received: from i48-04-01.pdx.du.teleport.com (HELO DAVE) (216.26.2.193) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 1999 17:14:28 -0000 X-Sender: drobison@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Dave Robison Subject: Re: STUDY L3:2 -organic chemistry -2 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 869 At 07:18 AM 3/3/99 +1300, Glen wrote: >I appreciate CHO, sugars and fats etc are all products of living >organisms. From your reply (and other thoughts), is it correct to >conclude that all living organisms make use of and need nitrogen to >exist? Yes, necessary to form proteins. >Naturally if it is not in the soil then it is easily extracted >from the atmosphere. >Even fungi and mosses in N depleted soils could get >what they need from the air etc. So anyway is this an appropriate >conclusion. Not true, there is a large energy threshold to overcome in order to break up the N2 molecule and combine single N into compounds. Only a few organisms can do this step. Isnt it interestng that they are single-celled organisms? That sets up the opportunity for complex symbiotic relations, like between legumes and azobacter bacteria. I dont know of fungi or mosses that can bind N, maybe there are some. Fungi tend to be saprophytes or parasites that gather their nutrients from the decaying bodies of other organisms. ================ Dave Robison Stellar Processes From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 13:18:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA01581 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:18:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA17661; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:09:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.triax.com (postoffice@mail.triax.com [209.222.164.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA17202 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:06:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from cyrix-166 ([209.222.163.65]) by mail.triax.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-41958U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA19844; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:00:09 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990303100652.007c7c00@pop.igc.apc.org> X-Sender: bcarter@pop.igc.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 10:06:52 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Barry Carter Subject: OFF: Latest on Monsanto and GE foods from Rachel's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 870 Dear Friends, The Rachel's Environmental and Health Weekly (REHW) has a great deal of information on GE/GM issues. They even have a page called Monsanto Monitor which can be found at: http://206.9.170.151/bulletins/getcurrentbulletin.cfm?bulletin_id=62&sid= You can also get a list of 59 articles from REHW which deal with Monsanto by doing a search on the word Monsanto on the REHW site at: http://206.9.170.151/bulletins/WhichBulletin.cfm?Bulletin_ID=62&SID= The main REHW web page is at: http://www.rachel.org/ The most recent issue of REHW follows: =======================Electronic Edition======================== . . . RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #639 . . ---February 25, 1999--- . . HEADLINES: . . GENETICALLY ALTERING THE WORLD'S FOOD . . ========== . . Environmental Research Foundation . . P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403 . . Fax (410) 263-8944; E-mail: erf@rachel.org . . ========== . . All back issues are available by E-mail: send E-mail to . . info@rachel.org with the single word HELP in the message. . . Back issues are also available from http://www.rachel.org. . . To start your own free subscription, send E-mail to . . listserv@rachel.org with the words . . SUBSCRIBE RACHEL-WEEKLY YOUR NAME in the message. . ================================================================= GENETICALLY ALTERING THE WORLD'S FOOD On January 14, after an 8-year scientific review, Canada rejected Monsanto corporation's request for approval of its genetically altered milk hormone, rBGH, a drug that makes dairy cows produce 10% more milk than normal.[1] This was a serious setback for Monsanto because rBGH was the company's first genetically-engineered product and Monsanto had hoped international acceptance of rBGH would smoothe the way for its other genetically-engineered farm crops like cotton, tomatoes, potatoes, rice, corn, and soybeans. The approval process for rBGH in Canada became an embarrasing political fiasco when Canadian health officials claimed Monsanto had tried to bribe them, which the company denied, and government scientists testified that they were being pressured by higher-ups to approve rBGH against their better scientific judgment. (See REHW #621.) Ultimately, Canada gave a thumbs down to rBGH because, as the product label acknowledges, it can cause udder infections, painful, debilitating foot disorders, and reduced life span in treated cows. U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved the use of rBGH in U.S. dairy cows in November, 1993, without taking a position on the issue of cruelty to animals. Monsanto will not reveal how widely the drug has been adopted by U.S. dairy farmers. Monsanto says it will appeal the rBGH decision within the Canadian government. But more importantly, Monsanto will ask the World Health Organization's Codex Alimentarius to declare rBGH safe when Codex meets in Rome this coming summer. If Codex issues the statement that Monsanto wants, under the World Trade Organization's rules, Canada will lose its right to ban the use of rBGH within its borders, and Monsanto will be one step closer to its goal.[1] At bottom, this is what "free trade" is about -- freeing transnational corporations from control by nation states. Codex Alimentarius is widely perceived to be dominated not by public-spirited health specialists but by scientists aligned with the interests of transnational corporations. Despite the recent setback for rBGH in Canada, Monsanto is pressing ahead with its plan to dominate world agriculture by selling genetically modified seeds -- a plan it is pursuing with powerful aid from the highest levels of the U.S. government. Both inside and outside the U.S., Monsanto is selling two basic varieties of genetically-modified seeds: "Roundup Ready" seeds that have been genetically modified to withstand a heavy soaking with Monsanto's best-selling herbicide, Roundup (glyphosate). And a group of seeds implanted with a Bt gene, which produces a pesticidal toxin in every cell of the resulting plant. Caterpillars that eat any part of such a plant will die, at least until the whole caterpillar population develops "resistance" to the Bt toxin. (For more detail, see REHW #637 and #638.) Within the U.S., genetically altered crops are rapidly coming into widespread use. In 1995, no genetically-modified crops were grown for commercial sale. Three years later, in 1998, 73 million acres of genetically-modified crops were grown worldwide, more than 50 million acres of them in the U.S. To allow this rapid change to occur with a minimum of resistance from consumers, the FDA has declared that genetically modified foods do not need to be labeled, thus depriving consumers of the opportunity to make an informed choice in the grocery store. You cannot refuse to buy what you cannot identify. It is presently estimated that some 30,000 items in U.S. grocery stores already contain genetically modified organisms.[2] Monsanto has announced that by the year 2000 (next year), 100% of U.S. soybeans (60 million acres) will be genetically modified. Actually, 100% really means something like 99.9%. Even if Monsanto reaches it's "100%" goal, there will continue to be a small acreage devoted to organically-grown, traditional soybeans. However, if Monsanto has its way, even these organically-grown non-genetically-modified soybeans will become difficult to identify. Last year when the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) proposed national standards to define what "organically grown" means, Monsanto and USDA proposed to allow genetically-modified crops to be labeled "organic." (See REHW #583.) After USDA received 300,000 letters of opposition from an angry public, USDA and Monsanto both withdrew the proposal. But three years from now, Monsanto will be back, urging the government to allow the "organic" label on genetically modified crops. If USDA goes along with Monsanto's plan, then the "organic" label will become meaningless and consumers will have to trust their grocers to supply soybeans that have not been genetically modified. But few grocers will have any way to know. According to a series of reports by Bill Lambrecht in the ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH, Monsanto's overarching plan is to gain approval for genetically modified crops in Europe, then use the European imprimatur to sell its technology to Europe's former colonies in Africa, Asia and Latin America. It won't be easy. In Ireland, Great Britain, France and India, farmer-led uprisings have burned and destroyed Monsanto's test plots. In India, Monsanto is growing genetically modified plants in green houses constructed of bullet-proof plastic. Monsanto insists its goal is "doing well by doing good" but farmers outside the U.S. are deeply suspicious. Of particular concern is Monsanto's latest genetic technique called the Technology Protection System, commonly known as "terminator technology." Developed with taxpayer money by the U.S. Department of Agriculture but patented by a Mississippi-based seed company that Monsanto has recently purchased, terminator technology is a genetic technique that renders the seeds of crops sterile after one or two years. This assures that Monsanto's seeds cannot be illegally saved and re-planted year after year. With terminator technology, anyone who becomes dependent upon Monsanto's genetically-modified seed will have to come back to Monsanto year after year to purchase new seed. By this means, Monsanto will gain a substantial measure of control over the food supply of any nation that widely adopts the company's genetic technologies. It is not a conspiracy, merely a shrewd business venture, but it is clear that Monsanto's goal is effective control of many of the staple crops that presently feed the world. >From its own perspective, the U.S. government evidently believes Monsanto's goal is worth supporting. According to Bill Lambrecht of the ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH, when Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern arrived in the U.S. in 1998 for a St. Patrick's Day visit, he was met by Sandy Berger, the director of the U.S. National Security Council. The topic of conversation at lunch was not peace in war-torn Ireland, but Ireland's pivotal vote in a pending European Community decision on Monsanto's genetically modified corn.[3] Lambrecht reports that when Monsanto flew a group of Irish journalists to the U.S. to help them prepare for the debate over genetically modified foods, their trip included a stop in the Oval Office at the White House -- an inner sanctum that few visitors to Washington ever see. When the French were reluctant to allow Monsanto's seeds to sprout on French soil, Secretary of State Madeline Albright and U.S. Trade Representative Charlene Barshevsky intervened on Monsanto's behalf. When the French still refused to yield, President Clinton personally took up the matter with French Prime Minister Lionel Jospin and gave him "an earful," Lambrecht writes. When that didn't work, Vice-President Gore followed up with a phone call to the French Prime Minister. Ultimately, the French gave in to the steady, high-level pressure. "Wherever Monsanto seeks to sow, the U.S. government clears the ground," writes Lambrecht, who calls the U.S. government Monsanto's "most powerful ally." "From the White House and the National Security Council on down," Lambrecht writes, "the apparatus of the U.S. Government worked this year [1998] on behalf of biotechnology. For Monsanto, at this moment, it is like having an Olympic basketball team with several Michael Jordans."[3] We are speculating, but it appears to us that the U.S. government may view genetically modified crops as a powerful new arm of U.S. foreign policy. Nations whose staple foods are grown from seed that they must purchase year after year from a handful of U.S. corporations are nations likely to see the world the way the U.S. wants them to see it. When asked, they are likely to play ball, whether they want to or not. A new world order, indeed. * * * Readers who would like to become active on this issue are urged to read the new publication, MONSANTO MONITOR, which is now being published in the Netherlands. Available via mail or E-mail. E-mail: biotech@aseed.antenna.nl. Or write: P.O. Box 92066, 1090 AB, Amsterdam, The Netherlands. Phone: +31-20-468 2626; fax: +31-20-468 2275. Or: www.antenna.nl/aseed. * * * Other excellent sources for action ideas and information include these: 1) Canada's Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) at www.rafi.org; In North Carolina, phone (919) 542-1396; fax: (919) 542-0069; e-mail: www@rafi.org. In Canada, phone (204) 453-5259; fax: (204) 925-8034; e-mail: rafi@rafi.org. 2) Physicians and Scientists Against Genetically Engineered Food at www.psagef.org/sitemap.htm. 3) The Campaign for Food Safety at www.purefood.org; telephone (218) 226-4164; e-mail alliance@mr.net. 4) Food & Water, 389 Vermont Route 215, Walden, VT 05873; phone: (802) 563-3300; fax: (802) 563-3310. Their FOOD & WATER JOURNAL is must reading. ========== [1] Kelly Morris, "Bovine somatotropin--who's crying over spilt milk?" LANCET Vol. 353 (January 23, 1999), pg. 306. For more detail on this story, see Brewster and Cathleen Kneen, "rbGH--for the last time?" RAM'S HORN No. 166 (February 1999), pg. 1. The RAM'S HORN [ISSN 0827-4053]: S-12, C-11, R.R. #1, Sorrento, B.C. V0E 2W0, Canada, is $20 (U.S.) per year (11 issues). E-mail: ramshorn@jetstream.net; or phone (250) 835-8561. Well worth the price. [2] These big-name products include genetically modified ingredients: Coca-Cola (corn syrup and/or Aspartame), Fritos (corn), Green Giant Harvest Burgers (soy), McDonald's french fries (potatoes), Nestle's chocolate (soy), Karo corn syrup (corn), NutraSweet (Aspartame), Kraft salad dressings (canola oil), Fleishmann's margarine (soy), Similac infant formula (soy), Land o' Lakes butter (rBGH), Cabot Creamery Butter (rBGH). If you want to avoid genetically modified products entirely, stay away from non-organic tomatoes, potatoes, corn, soy, canola and yellow squash. Avoid corn syrup and fructose--which are in almost all beverages and sodas (even health food brands) and in almost all sweet products, yogurt and aspirin. Avoid non-organic corn oil, cornstarch, corn meal, baking soda, baking powder, glycose syrup. Avoid soy; soy flour in baked goods, pizza, cookies, cakes, pasta; fillers in meat products (for example Big Macs), vegetarian meat substitutes (for example tofu, tofu burgers, tofu hot dogs), soy milk, infant formula, babyfoods; diet and protein shakes, protein bars; chocolate and candy bars; margarine; ice cream; pet food; soy oil in salad dressings and snack chips; soy sauce; lecithin and soy lecithin. In all, well over 30,000 products. Aspartame--the artificial sweetener Equal or NutraSweet--contains a genetically engineered enzyme, as do most non-organic cheeses. Amylase (used in making bread, flour, whole wheat flour, cereals, starch), Catalase (used in making soft drinks, egg whites, liquid whey) and Lactase are all genetically altered. Most livestock and commercial seafood are being fed genetically modified feed. Commercial pork has been genetically altered with DNA from human beings. Data from: Phillip Frazer and Annie Berthold-Bond, editors, NEWS ON EARTH, December, 1998, pg. 4. NEWS ON EARTH [ISSN 1099-0054] is a high-quality environmental newsletter published monthly; write them at 175 Fifth Avenue, Ste. 2245, NY, NY 10010; or noe@newslet.com; or phone (212) 741-2365. [3] Bill Lambrecht, "World Recoils at Monsanto's Brave New Crops," ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH December 27, 1998, pg. A1. Descriptor terms: monsanto; biotechnology; food safety; pesticides; food security; U.S. foreign policy; genetic engineering; rbgh; bovine growth hormone; canada; roundup; glyphosate; bt; resistance; organbic standards; usda; fda; bill lambrecht; france; ireland; terminator technology; national security council; ################################################################ NOTICE Environmental Research Foundation provides this electronic version of RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY free of charge even though it costs our organization considerable time and money to produce it. We would like to continue to provide this service free. You could help by making a tax-deductible contribution (anything you can afford, whether $5.00 or $500.00). Please send your tax-deductible contribution to: Environmental Research Foundation, P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403-7036. Please do not send credit card information via E-mail. For further information about making tax-deductible contributions to E.R.F. by credit card please phone us toll free at 1-888-2RACHEL, or at (410) 263-1584, or fax us at (410) 263-8944. --Peter Montague, Editor ################################################################ -- With kindest regards, Barry Carter Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance WEB Page: http://www.triax.com/bmnfa/index.htm Voice: 541-523-3357 Fax: 541-523-9438 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Help Protect America's Heritage Forests at http://www.ourforests.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 13:49:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA02294 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:49:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA22672; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:39:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA22077 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:36:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 32082 invoked from network); 3 Mar 1999 11:38:18 -0700 Received: from ts2-32.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.183) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 1999 11:38:18 -0700 Message-ID: <36DD8203.BBAEA8BE@cyberhighway.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 11:40:02 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Salmon River Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Seed Balls References: <36DD4641.7DF1@ipa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 871 Steve, thanks for posting this incredible site. Living in an arid part of the country, I really appreciate this information. Thanks for posting it. I look forward to reading your collected flower information, as well. Pam DeTray Steve Diver wrote: > As a starting point, check out the very informative web page > by Jim Bones on seed balls. It features awe inspiring photographs, > earth restoration concepts and practices, wisdom from Masanobu > Fukuoka, and cool web links. > > ============================================================== > Jim Bones' "Light Writings" web page: > http://www.seedballs.com/ > > [Agriculture - Art - Biodiversity - Earth Education - Fukuoka - > Nature - Seed Balls - Watersheds - Wilderness] > > Seed Balls: A New Tool for Revegetation (Table of Contents) > http://www.seedballs.com/tblcon.html From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 14:36:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03596 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:36:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA01211; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:26:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00640 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:23:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.161.177]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990303192620.DSXL3226200.mta2-rme@garudix> for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:26:20 +1300 Message-ID: <36DD8CF6.52C2@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 08:26:46 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Saturn enters Taurus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 872 Below is an article I have written on this subject. Probably posted earlier. Lets hope it is a 'finished' version. Cheers Glen A Astronomy or Astrology? - Signs or Constellations? Lets get it Right! Glen Atkinson & Peter Bacchus The two questions - Is Biodynamics use of the cosmic script astronomy or astrology? and What is the difference between the signs or the constellations of the zodiac? - have continually surfaced over the years in Biodynamic discussions and farming practices. In our experience however, the explanations of these questions provided in BDF&GANZ literature, calendars and courses falls short of a full and in some regards correct understanding of these topics. The first question is more "Is Biodynamics use of cosmic, galactic and planetary information, used for example in the planting and sowing calendar, prep. making and in the philosophic aspects of Biodynamics, astronomy or astrology? The BDF&GANZs most prominent speakers, notably Hans Mulder and Peter Proctor continually assert, all use of this information and the activities it is applied to is - astronomy. The Encyclopaedia Britannia suggests otherwise. "Astrology - Interpreting the influence of planets and stars on earthly affairs." (P 654, Micropedia Ready Reference, Book 1 ) Our fifty years of research into these subjects agrees with this standpoint, as does Dr Elizabeth Vreede in her "Astronomical Letters". Reference needed Astronomy is the pure science of the observation of cosmic phenomena. Astrology begins as soon as this pure information is applied or associated to any life process. The BD calendar itself is indeed astronomically correct as it is based on the planets moving through the constellations. However, the inference and material supplied in the calendar suggesting it has application for plant growth moves biodynamic planting and sowing into an astrological activity, regardless of the opinions of a few individuals. This may seem a mute point. However I see three positive outcomes from this ‘awakening’. Firstly, this realisation brings Biodynamic practice back into integrity with the ‘educated community’ through being honest with itself. Secondly, It means that if Biodynamics is an astrological practice and ‘science’ this makes you its practioners into astrologers. Thirdly, as astrologers you may well be open to exploring further how the basic formula of astrology - used successfully for over five thousand years - can organise and rationalise Biodynamic practice. Our study of Astrology and Biodynamics has shown how this ‘formula’ and the inner structure of Biodynamics, outlined by Rudolf Steiner, are identical. ( Future articles will explore this connection. ) By joining them together a very deep, cohesive and understandable picture of Biodynamics is achieved. ( refer ‘Biodynamics Decoded’, Glen Atkinson, Garuda Trust. ) The second question is the one which comes to the surface most often. This is due to a glaring difference between the BDANZ calendar and every other planting or astrological calendar in New Zealand. What is the difference between the Signs and The Constellations? In our experience the majority of BDF&GANZ writers and speakers continually display inadequate understandings of this topic. Sadly we have heard the suggestion or inference in the BDF&GANZ journal and by association speakers that ‘the signs of the zodiac are 'wrong' - and by association that Astrology, as practised today is also wrong’. Comments like these made to people unfamiliar with astrology are really only ‘making mischief’ and establishing separation in a place where there should be none. Often these statements are connected to the use of the signs in magazine astrology. Astrology is far more than this one application. As stated earlier it is when any cosmic phenomena is applied to life processes. There are many other uses of astrology which many of the great people of our History have used to their advantage. A serious investigation of astrology will show it can not be dismissed so lightly. In fact these statements have more to do with an anthroposophical ‘neurosis’ based on a statement by Rudolf Steiner, than anything else. He was heard to comment that the fatalisitic astrology practised in the west in 1920s was decadant and needed renewal. He then set about renewing it. Biodynamics is one of these renewals. There has been many other individuals over the intervening 70 years who have also contributed to the development of a free will, spirit friendly Astrology which is practised widely today. We wish to suggest the signs of the zodiac are not wrong. There is an understanding that suggests ‘ Any thing bad is merely something that in itself is good, but is in the wrong place or at the wrong time.’ The question is more where are the signs right? Rather than are they right or wrong? Afterall 2000 years of use by people such as Ptolemy, Keplar and Nostradamus suggests they must have some use. The signs and the constellations are different to each other, yet they are related. The essential difference is that the constellations are a twelvefold division of the stars seen behind the path of the sun, The ecliptic. Hence the constellations are a galactic based phenomena. The signs of the zodiac are a twelve fold division of the suns path around the earth. Starting each year at the northern hemispheres spring equinox. This makes the signs a solar system based phenomena with special reference to the earths seasons. The signs are a division of the suns ecliptic with no concern for the stars behind it, they are based on our local star, the sun and not on the cosmic stars of the galaxy. (1) The constellations are astronomically correct ( and right too ), and have been shown (2) to have direct influence upon plants and are correctly used in the biodynamic astrological moon planting techniques. The signs of the zodiac are an astrological abstraction. Astrological abstractions occur when a astronomical law, - such as there being twelve primary constellations - is taken and applied to some other aspect of creation. In the case of the signs, the twelve fold ‘law’ of the constellations is applied to the earths seasons of the year, starting with the northern hemisphere Spring Equinox. This 'archetypal' processing of creation is a very common practice within astrology and used expertly by Rudolf Steiner. Interested readers might like to explore the astronomical reality of Steiners sevenfold planetary formula used in his evolution theory and social development work, as an example of abstractions having practical applications. (3) >From working with astrological abstractions - birth charts, progressed charts, composite charts, biodynamics, cosmobiology - over many years we have come to coin the following ‘law’ The exploration of the relationship of an archetypal laws to its astronomical reality can describe how and where it will be effective. The relationship of the signs to the astronomical reality of the constellations describes how they are to be used and to which aspects of life they can be applied. From the constellations to the signs we take steps from ‘reality’. The big reality for us is the galaxy. We must first move our attention from the galactic centre to the sun. The next step which is common to both the Signs and Constellations is to see we are seeing both these divisions from the Earth not the Sun. This move in it self suggests we are looking at life on Earth. With constellations we orientate from the earth onto the galaxy. The third step is to move from orientating on the galaxy to our sun. The sun is a member of the galaxy, hence one part of the creative formative force / spirit sphere of the Galaxy. This move to the localised spirit sphere is synonomous with the image of the incarnation of the Ego into the Human. Here we are personalising a collective spiritual impulse. Interestingly the signs gained popular recognition with Ptolemy in 200AD while the incarnation of the Ego began with the Christ. Cosmically speaking this is very close timing. The incarnation of the Ego - which has only occured for the human kingdom - has lead to the development of thinking and a more conscious reflection upon our psychological processes. The fourth step is taken when we ‘earth’ this cosmic impulse by starting the division at the earths northern spring equinox. In short, the signs of the zodiac find their use in the description of Human psychology and its physical manifestation. Dr Steiner and Dr Vreede used them effectively in the "Curative Education" course. When discussing the cases of two albino sisters Steiner says " In the case of the elder sister we saw that mars was standing in opposition to the moon which was at the time standing in Libra." (pg 196 ) Based on the dates supplied in earlier lectures ( charts supplied ) it can be seen that the Moon was standing in the front of the Sign of Libra. Dr Steiners interpretation of this information is a wonderful example of how these planetary forces play into creation and a excellent picture of the working of Sulphur . To play the devils advocate, it can be argued that as a twelvefold division of the Earths natural seasons, starting at either hemispheres spring equinox, the signs will find some application to plants and other earth processes. Indeed, this has been shown to be so and used by practioners and researchers through the ages. They are not the constellations and will not work in exactly the same way, but they will find some place and will be correct in that sphere of application. So becoming dogmatic in this discussion is tricky. ( see footnote 4 regarding peppering dates ) L and, plants and animals stand at a less developed stage of evolution than Humans, so they stand in direct influence of the cosmic forces coming from the stars. These three kingdoms do not yet incarnate the Spirit \ Ego \ Consciousness aspect of creation as Humans do. This aspect of spirit is sourced at the fixed stars and is embodied only by (some) Humans. Hence the fixed stars ( constellations ) work directly on the lower kingdoms. As Humans have incarnated or internalised the Ego\ Spirit ( over the last 2000 years ) we can find a different and freer relationship to the constellations. Hence our orientation as Humans has moved from the cosmic suns to our personal sun. In turn a system of Astrology - using the sun based signs - has developed in the exact same time frame, as this Ego \ Spirit incarnation event has occurred. Some aspects of Human life will continue to be influenced by the constellations. It appears they still function with many of our organic rhythms as well as yet to be incarnated aspects of our Spiritual selves, being separate from the psychic levels, of Human experience and evolution. The signs and the charts drawn from them are much more Earth based. Hence they describe the course of our general Human life on Earth. Which is why they are so popular. The signs and the constellations are now at different places in the sky is because the spring equinox of the earth moves clockwise through the sky at the rate of 1 degree every 72 years. In the 1800 or so years since the signs gained 'recent' popular acceptance by Ptolemy, this Equinox point has moved backwards, from 0 degrees of the constellation of Aries - where it just happened to be at the time -, to be approximately 4 degrees of the ( equally divided )constellation of Pisces now. The actual basis for starting and deviding the constellations has been one of dispute through the ages - there are three constellational Zodiacs we know of. Hence some debate can be put forward for the exact constellational placement of the spring equinox. The constellational division used in the BD calendar is the unequal division of the constellations and appears the most appropriate for plant growth. Hence it is probably more appropriate in BD forums to use the Equinox position based on the unequal constellations. By NZ Biodynamic ‘leaders’ putting forward incorrect and inadequate understandings of these matters an inadequate scholarship of the subject is revealed. The unwillingness to alter this continued practice without serious explanation indicates something far more serious is a foot. Sadly the errors of one generation are being passed onto the next. It is here mistakes become dogma and Biodynamics falls into blind belief and disrepute. We trust this offering will go some way to setting the record a right or at least begin a debate for establishing a solid platform for the future. Footnotes 1: The potential for theorising over the significant astrological and philosophical differences and meanings of these 'Astronomical' facts is enormous. Glen has covered this in a previous article in the BD newsleter ( date forgotten ) and more recently in his book the "Planet Earth Handbook". Many of the deeper background reasons for some of the following direct statements can be found in this book. 2 Agnes Fyfe - Moon & Plant Maria Thun - Working with the constellantions 3 Occult Science - Rudolf Steiner is a start 4 Internet piece re peppering dates From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 14:58:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA04334 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:58:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA05774; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:47:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA05263 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:45:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0212.direct.ca ([204.244.83.28] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10IHcI-00076B-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:47:39 -0800 Message-ID: <36DD9189.85DE394B@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 11:46:17 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: OFF: Things are not always what they seem (Author unknown) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 873 Things aren't always what they seem. Two traveling angels stopped to spend the night in the home of a wealthy family. The family was rude and refused to let the angels stay in the mansion's guest room. Instead the angels were given a space in the cold basement. As they made their bed on the hard floor, the older angel saw a hole in the wall and repaired it. When the younger angel asked why, the older angel replied..."Things aren't always what they seem". The next night the pair came to rest at the house of a very poor, but very hospitable farmer and his wife. After sharing what little food they had, the couple let the angels sleep in their bed where they could have a good night's rest. When the sun came up the next morning, the angels found the farmer and his wife in tears. Their only cow, whose milk had been their sole income, lay dead in the field. The younger angel was infuriated and asked the older angel "how could you have let this happen!? The first man had everything, yet you helped him" she accused. "The second family had little but was willing to share everything, and you let their cow die." "Things aren't always what they seem," the older angel replied. When we stayed in the basement of the mansion, I noticed there was gold stored in that hole in the wall. Since the owner was so obsessed with reed and unwilling to share his good fortune, I sealed the wall so he wouldn't find it. Then last night as we slept in the farmer's bed, the angel of death came for his wife. I gave her the cow instead. Things aren't always what they seem." Sometimes this is exactly what happens when things don't turn out the way they should. If you have faith in God, just trust that every outcome is always to your advantage. You might not realize it until much later. Regards Ferdinand -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 15:26:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA05107 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:26:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA11874; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:17:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA11243 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:14:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0212.direct.ca ([204.244.83.28] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10II4V-0001UC-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:16:47 -0800 Message-ID: <36DD9859.3B49E357@direct.ca> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 12:15:21 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Off: Saturn enters Taurus References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 874 Eons ago, when I got 30, t'was the strangest of all. Realized was no Twen no longer yet, was no grown up either. Argued with the Oldies that they don't understand the young but suddenly was 'old' - too. Yes, it is an interesting one. Regards Ferdinand CWShade@aol.com wrote: > It was my 30th Birthday Mon. and boy do I feel wierd, like being disconnected > from the mundane world I live in. Serious alienation and foreboding for the > world, but then again, maybe that's standard issue with 30. How about Maury? > > Chris Shade -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 15:39:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA05733 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:39:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA14223; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:29:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd118.hotmail.com [207.82.252.182]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA13997 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:27:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9612 invoked by uid 0); 3 Mar 1999 20:29:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19990303202934.9611.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 03 Mar 1999 12:29:34 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Cosmic Pipe Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 12:29:34 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 875 Dear List, A Cosmic Pipe when made properly and calibrated to astronomical data has the influence to mediate desired properties of a farm organism on both the atmosheric and soil level. This device, I feel, funtions on the same level as what I have read concerning the "Round Towers" of Ireland and the "Stone Circles" of Brittany. Hugh Lovel is correct when he speaks of "farming the atmoshere", but a learning curve is in store for anyone choosing this path. The first plateu(and possibly stumbling block) on the learning curve was in learning to think of the farm as having borders. While I was able to make some headway in thinking of it as an organizm, it was difficult indeed to link borders with organizms; that are able to draw the nourishment it requires from its' surrounding. As each organism must fight for its' own survival, it must build its' resistance to perceived threats of pestalence, drought and flood. In that context, even though it is not an approved by the BDA so I have heard, I consider the cosmic pipe to be of primary importance in broadcasting of biodynamic preparations for the purpose of healing the farm organizm. However, it must be realized by anyone who would endevor to take on such a task, that is of building and maintaining a pipe, that it takes constant vigilence of coordinating regents with lunar & cosmic influences. This in itself, cannot and should not be taken lightly. As I write, I noticed that the first above mentioned platea was the farm organizm. That is incorrect. The First task & platea, one that I am still attempting to assimulate is Rudolf Steiners' AG Letures. The latest task is still, more remote but yet part of the lectures and that is the Topic, History, and uses of dowsing. The platea concerning dowsing that I perceive is this: most dowsers write primarily using the subjective sense. I am trying to make this subjective sense into something positive but it does seem a little loose and disoriented. I wonder if this sense is where man broke with the past? Why we are blinded to the ethers that are constantly flowing. How did this occur? Was man able once to see these? Is it the ridicule and objectiveness of politeness that creates the dillusion of total materialism? Michael. Michael. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 16:07:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA06749 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:07:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA18910; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:56:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA18656 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:54:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33575-715>; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:56:47 -0400 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:56:47 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re:OFF Canadian Free Homeopathy Clinic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 876 Hi All; I just wanted to let you know the British Institute of Homeopathy, Canada, opened it's new Free Clinic in Gloucester, near Ottawa, Ontario. BIH Homeopathy students will hold the clinic every second Friday of the month, for the present, adjusting the schedule as needed. When you think of it, personal choice in health care is only available for those who can afford it, those whose income is limited only have one choice - pharmaceuticals. Hopefully free Alternative Health Clinics will open up all over.. --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 16:15:30 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07027 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:15:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA21102; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:05:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from yancey.main.nc.us (yancey.main.nc.us [208.133.41.194]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20663 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:03:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from donnas (ppp31.yancey.main.nc.us [208.133.41.225]) by yancey.main.nc.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA07427 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:06:00 -0500 Message-ID: <008201be65b8$6bcf7b20$e12985d0@donnas> From: "donnas" To: Subject: Re:Tompkins interview Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:57:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 877 Great interview!!! Peter Tompkins is a very interesting man. I have read the Secret Life of Plants, and now want to read Secrets of the Soil......... but have been told that it is out of print. Did the new edition of that book really get out by the end of 1998??? If so, who is the publisher? regards... donaterra From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 17:36:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09193 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:36:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA07669; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:25:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07383 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:24:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.138] (pm3shep3-163-138.intrepid.net [209.190.163.138]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA26997 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:26:57 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990303202934.9611.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:26:15 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Cosmic Pipe Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 878 >I wonder if this sense is where man broke with the past? Why we are >blinded to the ethers that are constantly flowing. How did this occur? >Was man able once to see these? Is it the ridicule and objectiveness of >politeness that creates the dillusion of total materialism? A Great Question, Well Phrased, Michael! Thank You, -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 17:38:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09248 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:38:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA07561; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:25:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07373 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:24:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.138] (pm3shep3-163-138.intrepid.net [209.190.163.138]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA26990 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:26:54 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <008201be65b8$6bcf7b20$e12985d0@donnas> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:23:34 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re:Tompkins interview Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 879 >Great interview!!! Peter Tompkins is a very interesting man. I have read >the Secret Life of Plants, and now want to read Secrets of the >Soil......... but have been told that it is out of print. Did the new >edition of that book really get out by the end of 1998??? If so, who is the >publisher? >regards... >donaterra Thanks for reading the interview Dona - Everyone, please help me here: did I fail to make it clear on the interview pages that SOS **IS BACK IN PRINT** and is available from ACRES USA?!?! ( http://www.acresusa.com ) THANKS! -Allan PS I do still have a few copies of SIGNED Secret Life of Nature hardback. I understand that this book TRULY IS out of print. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 18:40:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA20935 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:40:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA19461; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:27:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18822 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:24:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer - 153.37.33.159 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:25:56 -0800 Message-ID: <001301be65cc$c73314e0$9f212599@oemcomputer> From: "Dr. Andrew Lorand" To: Subject: Re: Things are not always what they seem (Author unknown) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:22:58 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 880 Thank you Ferdinand for this lovely story and reminder! Andrew > > Things aren't always what they seem. Two traveling angels stopped to > spend the night in the home of a wealthy family. The family was rude > and refused to let the angels stay in the mansion's guest room. >Instead > the angels were given a space in the cold basement. As they made > their bed on the hard floor, the older angel saw a hole in the wall and > > repaired it. When the younger angel asked why, the older angel > replied..."Things aren't always what they seem". > > The next night the pair came to rest at the house of a very poor, but > very hospitable farmer and his wife. After sharing what little food >they > had, the couple let the angels sleep in their bed where they could > have a good night's rest. When the sun came up the next morning, the >angels > found the farmer and his wife in tears. Their only cow, whose milk had >been > their sole income, lay dead in the field. > > The younger angel was infuriated and asked the older angel "how could > you have let this happen!? The first man had everything, yet you helped > > him" she accused. "The second family had little but was willing to > share everything, and you let their cow die." "Things aren't always >what > they seem," the older angel replied. > > When we stayed in the basement of the mansion, I noticed there was > gold stored in that hole in the wall. Since the owner was so obsessed > with reed and unwilling to share his good fortune, I sealed the wall so >he > wouldn't find it. > > Then last night as we slept in the farmer's bed, the angel of death > came for his wife. I gave her the cow instead. Things aren't always >what > they seem." Sometimes this is exactly what happens when things don't >turn > out the way they should. If you have faith in God, just trust that >every > outcome is always to your advantage. You might not realize it until >much > later. > > >Regards Ferdinand >-- > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- > >FRIENDS: >To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows >(feedlots, AI, hormones, >excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage >etc.), 1999 is: >MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, >references, statistics >or your personal observations and stories related to cows. >I thank you for your help. > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 18:56:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA21206 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:56:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA22453; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:42:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (ecpport2.ecopost.com.au [203.28.64.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21710 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:39:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (kmidc65-79.ecopost.com.au [203.28.65.79]) by ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA25688 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:41:42 +1100 Message-ID: <005001be65cf$68521cc0$4f411ccb@default> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "D & S Chamberlain" To: "BDNOW" Subject: OFF: GE responsibility Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:40:53 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 881 My Friends: For some time now I have enjoyed the BDNOW list and it has certainly opened my mind to different aspects of BD. I am finding the information on GE disturbing and I would like to put forward a thought. If in the future the warnings on GM are proved to be correct, can the owners of this product be charged with crimes against humanity? If they can, then perhaps the shareholders etc of the companies concerned should be warned, maybe just maybe it will cause some to stop and think. David Chamberlain Email kwi@midcoast.com.au From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 19:29:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA21661 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:29:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA28503; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:17:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA28211 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:16:17 -0500 (EST) From: Lilipoh@aol.com Received: from Lilipoh@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hMXQa06485 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:16:15 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <73a3b47d.36ddd0cf@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:16:15 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: cows and their keepers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 882 Yesterday I visited Hawthorne Valley Farm. I was 15 miles away, and felt I would starve unless paid a short visit. You can tell exactly when you are getting close: the whole environment changes. The light is different. Watched bright faced children and their parents hurrying from school to the store. Got out of the car and took my first really deep breath in profound gratitude. Heard hammering and other noises in contrast to the deathly quiet of towns I had just passed through. Shared my home baked pizza crust with the hens and looked into the trusting eyes of a healthy calf. Do you know what an extraordinary thing it is you are all doing? Of course you do, but I wanted to say it again, because one can get discouraged sometimes. Here is an article from a woman in the North of Ireland on the topic of cows. It was printed in LILIPOH #13. The response letter that follows is excerpted from LILIPOH #15. Mad Cows-Whose madness is it? By Lucie Eva. Reprinted with kind permission of Network Ireland In the midst of the present crisis in the 'beef industry', some of us would like to pause and reflect on the nature of the crisis in which the cow finds itself. As many of you will be aware, animals are not individuals in the sense that human beings are. They are in the process of becoming individualities. At this stage of their evolution they are part of a group soul to which they return after death and from which they come when they are born on earth. Like other animals, cattle have a group soul which is a single conscious being-the being of Cow. Cattle have been so abused through intensive factory farming methods; through injection of growth hormones, 'angel dust', etc.; through mismanagement, inappropriate feeding, etc.; through physical neglect e.g. in transportation, in violent and brutal handling and slaughtering practices, through our belief that we have the right to turn a cow into money as quickly and efficiently as possible; that the being Cow is in a state of sickness, terror and anger. This being fears incarnation because of the misery that it experiences through the earthly life of its incarnated members. This misery and sickness is now manifest in BSE or Mad Cow Disease. Mass slaughter can only add to the terror and suffering of this being. Mother Nature will no longer permit our abuse of the earth and its creatures, she is not interested in money or economic markets, her interest is in the mutual support, preservation and harmony of all beings. If you would like to help: _ Offer your prayers and meditations in whatever way is right for you, to that being which is Cow, and to the Angel of Cow, asking for and sending love, healing and protection. _ Talk to anyone who will listen, about Life, wherever it is to be found, and the need to respect and support it. _ Talk about the possibility of using this crisis as an opportunity to look at how we can move away from factory farming towards managing herds in a more humane way. _ Talk about how here in Ireland North and South, herds are smaller and methods less intensive. We really have the possibility to begin again and to show Europe another way of caring for our farm animals. _ Don't buy into the system by buying mass produced meat. Tell your butcher that you want meat from properly cared for animals. When you eat meat, try to remember to inwardly thank the being for sacrificing itself in order to provide you with food-this used to be a willing sacrifice- it is no longer so. If you would like further suggestions or clarification regarding the meditation, please feel free to contact Lucie Eva at 011 44 1232 421757. "Dear Lilipoh Readers, I was deeply touched by the contribution 'Mad Cows -- Whose Madness is It?' I have always loved cows, and have happy childhood memories of drinking warm milk squirted directly from the cow's teat into my little tin cup, licking the foam off my upper lip as I nestled deeper into the straw. That was in my great uncle's barn, long ago and far away in what used to be Germany and is now Poland In May of 1995 my husband suddenly got sick, becoming very unsteady on his feet, finding it harder and harder to understand and to speak, and finally, within three weeks. lapsing into a coma and dying. It wasn't until very near the end that I got a diagnosis--Kreutzfeld-Jakob disease, which is always fatal. It was, of course, devastating to watch my husband, who had been a brilliant scientist, turn into a helpless baby and die. But it was so good to learn from Lucie Eva's article the background spiritual science provides for mad cow disease. My husband was perhaps helping the cow group soul to bear its hard, human-inflicted burden. The official line is still that mad cow disease doesn't exist in the USA and that cows here are not fed animal products--don't believe it. We cannot isolate ourselves from it completely any more than we can isolate ourselves from the rest of the evil in the world--pollution, violence, etc. Medical technology is not the answer. As Lucie Eva says so well, we must pray and meditate, and never give up on trying to move others to love, protect, and nurture cows, other farm animals, and, indeed, all of our fellow creatures. Christiane Buchinger Marks From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 19:59:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA22675 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:59:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA03490; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:48:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02824 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:44:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.81]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:47:08 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:46:43 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: GE Foodlist Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 883 Hello Friends, In a recent conversation a family member asked me which foods to avoid when I brought up the subject of GE foods. I promised them a print out & then went to the PureFood website to hunt for a concise list of foods. Perhaps, I was just overwhelmed by the amount of information that has been going around on this list lately as well as on sanet and Rachel's Environmental Weekly. Pure Food's site was equally packed with an overload of information. Luckily I still had this list of foods/brands which are the most likely to contain GE from an earlier Rachel's and thought I would post it ...just in case our loved ones need a little help. JS ----------------------- Reminder: How To Shop Thanks again to Judy Kew for putting most of this list together. This is still pretty much up-to-date. But I've learned that many do not follow the guidelines. Please don't allow yourself to be a guinea pig for the multinationals. Some people continue to take their chances with this. Peter __________________________________________________________ HOW TO SHOP TO AVOID GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOODS: FOODS TO AVOID OR BOYCOTT: SPECIFIC BRAND NAME PRODUCTS TO BOYCOTT: THESE COMPANIES USE GENETICALLY ENGINEERED INGREDIENTS IN SOME OR ALL OF THEIR PRODUCTS: Coca Cola (corn syrup and/or Aspartame), Fritos (corn), Green Giant Harvest Burgers (soy), McDonald's French Fries (potatoes), Nestle's chocolates (soy), Karo Corn Syrup (corn), NutraSweet (Aspartame), Kraft Salad Dressings (canola oil), Fleishmann's margarine (soy), Similac Infant Formula (soy), Land o Lakes butter (rBGH), Cabot Creamery Butter (rBGH). AVOID ALL OTHER CONVENTIONAL (NOT CERTIFIED-ORGANIC) TOMATOES, POTATOES, CORN, SOY, CANOLA OIL, COTTON SEED OIL, AND YELLOW CROOK-NECK SQUASH: TOMATOES: Genetically engineered with bacteria-derived kanamycin resistance genes, Antisense backwards DNA, antibiotic marker genes, viruses, and DNA of flounder and North Atlantic shellfish. This and the following genetically engineered foods have antibiotic marker genes used to facilitate the genetic engineering process. They can cause allergies and autoimmune disease. POTATOES: Genetically engineered with wax moth insect DNA; genetically engineered to produce its own pesticide internally with the DNA of bacillus thuringiensis bacteria. CORN: Genetically engineered to tolerate high quantities of the chemical pesticide glufosinate, and genetically engineered with a virus and the DNA of the bacteria bacillus thuringiensis. SOY: Genetically engineered and DNA-altered by Monsanto with bacteria; capable of tolerating heavy doses of Monsanto's Roundup brand chemical pesticide (glyphosate). YELLOW CROOK NECK SQUASH: Gene-spliced with two experimental viruses and arbitrary marker genes, capable of causing unpredictable and unexpected effects. CANOLA OIL: Genetically engineered and DNA-altered with California bay turnip and various viruses and bacterium in order to produce high quantities of lauric acid. COTTON SEED OIL: Genetically engineered and DNA-altered with Arabidopsis bacterium, and viruses to be able to withstand large applications of the chemical pesticide bromoxynil. Bromoxynil causes birth defects in human beings. PAPAYA: Some have been genetically engineered. AVOID ALL PRODUCTS DERIVED FROM THE ABOVE NON-ORGANIC ITEMS As of the beginning of 1997, these products will have been genetically engineered and on the market as a percentage of the total conventional food supply. Since they are sold unlabeled in the conventional market, there is no way to tell specifically which tomatoes, potatoes, corn, soy, etc. have been actually genetically engineered. If you live in a nation which may receive imports from the U.S. and Canada, you should also avoid these non-organic foods as a safety precaution. Your own nation or another exporting to yours may be doing genetic engineering. Eat only organic food if possible. Even if you buy seeds to grow your own food, buy only organic seeds. AVOID EATING IN NON-ORGANIC RESTAURANTS Unless the restaurant management makes it clear in writing that they are committed to using only non-genetically engineered foods and products, avoid eating out as much as possible. Since genetically engineered foods are not labeled, they also have no idea which of their tomato, potato, corn, soy, canola, yellow-crook-neck squash products may be genetically engineered. READ LABELS CAREFULLY: BE CAREFUL WITH ALL PROCESSED FOODS WATCH OUT FOR CONVENTIONAL, NON-ORGANIC CORN AND SOY, BECAUSE THEY ARE IN SO MANY PRODUCTS: Avoid corn syrup, fructose, and fructose corn syrup in almost all beverages and sodas (even health food brands), and in almost all sweet products, yogurt, and aspirin. Avoid corn oil, corn starch, corn meal, baking soda, baking powder, glycose syrup; Avoid soy; soy flour in baked goods; pizza, cookies, cakes, pasta; fillers in meat products, (for example Big Macs) vegetarian meat substitutes, (for example tofu, tofu burgers, tofu hot dogs) soy milk, infant formula, baby foods; diet and protein shakes, protein bars; chocolate and candy bars; margarine; ice cream; pet food; soy oil in salad dressings & snack chips; soy sauce; lecithin and soy lecithin. In all, well over 30,000 products! AVOID rBGH MILK & DAIRY PRODUCTS (apologies to strict vegans): Monsanto's genetically engineered bovine growth hormone (rBGH), marketed through veterinarians and injected into dairy cows, causes increased milk production and horrible mastitis. These cows then require constant medical supervision and continuous high doses of antibiotics. Their milk contains high levels of pus. The cow's milk and dairy products made from this milk also contain rBGH, bovine growth hormone. This hormone increases cancer risk in human beings. AVOID ASPARTAME: This is known as the artificial sweetener Equal or NutraSweet and is made up of three chemicals and a genetically engineered enzyme. It has been implicated in many diseases. It breaks down into formeldahyde in the body. EAT ONLY ORGANIC RENNETLESS CHEESE (apologies to strict vegans): Most non-organic cheeses are made with a genetically engineered rennet called chymosin. AVOID DOUGH CONDITIONER: This is a code word for a combination of genetically engineered enzymes and other components, found in cheaper breads and baked goods. OTHER GENETICALLY ENGINEERED ADDITIVES AND ENZYMES Avoid Amylase (used in making bread, flour, whole wheat flour, cereals, starch), Catalase (used in making soft drinks, egg whites, liquid whey) and Lactase. FOODS TO FAVOR: BUY AND EAT ONLY CERTIFIED ORGANIC FOODS: Certified organic tomatoes, potatoes, corn, soy, canola oil, cotton oil, and yellow-crook-neck squash are safe. Many other genetically engineered products will be coming to market in 1997 and 1998 if the bio-tech industry has its way. By buying only organic foods of every type, you will protect yourself and your family from Frankenfoods. Almost everything that can be found in your conventional food market is also produced by the organic food industry. If you buy a few carefully chosen conventional foods, keep up-to-date on which few conventional foods are safe through the websites and mailing lists at the end of this consumer report. MEAT AND POULTRY (apologies to vegetarians) Most livestock are being fed genetically altered feed, as well as a disgusting mix of ground-up and often diseased and discarded animal carcasses. The only safe beef and poultry will be those fed only organically grown grain. Avoid commercially produced seafood. Commercial pork has been genetically altered with DNA from human beings. Great time to decide to be vegetarian. FAVOR DAIRY PRODUCTS FROM COMPANIES THAT DO NOT USE (rBGH) BOVINE GROWTH HORMONE (apologies to strict vegans) Research and buy only from suppliers that promise on the package or in other writing that their products are rBGH-free. Be especially careful with butter. Buy only organic butter, because even otherwise good companies buy cheap rBGH milk to make butter, or else they buy their butter (rBGH) from other companies. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - (List from NYTimes article by Marian Burros in 1997 Following is a list by Genetic ID of Fairfield, Iowa, of genetically engineered foods that have been approved by the federal government, that await approval or that are under development. An asterisk marks foods that are for sale. Abalone* Alfalfa Apples Asparagus Barley Beets Broccoli Canola (rapeseed oil)* Carrots Catfish* Cauliflower Cheesemaking enzymes (chymosin)* Chestnuts Chicory Corn Cotton (cottonseed oil)* Cucumbers Flaxseed Grapes Kiwi fruit Lettuce Melons Papayas Peanuts Pepper Potatoes* Prawns* Raspberries Rice Salmon* Soybeans* Squash Strawberries Sugar cane Sunflowers Sweet potatoes Tomatoes* Walnuts Watermelons Wheat Copyright 1997 The New York Times Company From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 20:04:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA22815 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:04:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04052; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:50:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA03926 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:50:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.81]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:52:58 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:52:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Another good GE list from the OGL from Last Sept Message-ID: <55DBDF563C89C0138525672A0004B556.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 884 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A number of people had a problem with the estimated 60 to 70 percent figure of genetically engineered foods that can turn up on grocery store shelves. Perhaps, this occurred because I misread the information before posting it. The data DID NOT read 60 to 70 percent of the seeds. Rather, 60 to 70 percent of the products of primarily processed foods are being genetically engineered. My apologies. Nevertheless, consider this: Soy flour, soy oil, lecithin, soy protein isolates and concentrates. Products that may contain genetically engineered soy derivatives: vitamin E, tofu dogs, cereals, veggie burgers and sausages, tamari, soy sauce, chips, ice cream, frozen yogurt, infant formula, sauces, protein powder, margarine, soy cheeses, crackers, breads, cookies, chocolates, candies, fried foods, shampoo, bubble bath, cosmetics, enriched flours and pastas. Corn flour, corn starch, corn oil, corn sweeteners, syrups. Products that may contain genetically engineered corn derivatives: vitamin C, tofu dogs, chips, candies, ice cream, infant formula, salad dressings, tomato sauces, breads, cookies, cereals, baking powder, alcohol, vanilla, margarine, soy sauce, tamari, soda, fried foods, powdered sugar, enriched flours and pastas. Canola: Oil. Products that may contain genetically engineered canola derivatives: chips, salad dressings, cookies, margarine, soaps, detergents, soy cheeses, fried foods. Cotton: Oil, fabric, seed-meal. Products that may contain genetically engineered cotton or its derivatives: clothes, linens, chips, peanut butter, crackers, cookies. Potatoes: Right now the only potato that has been genetically engineered is the Burbank Russet, but you still have to look out for potato starch and flour. Products that may contain genetically engineered potatoes or derivatives: unspecified processed or restaurant potato products (fries, mashed, baked, mixes, etc.), chips, Passover products, vegetable pies, soups. Tomatoes: No plum or roma tomatoes have been genetically engineered. But one cherry tomato has, as have regular tomatoes. Products that may contain genetically engineered tomatoes or derivatives: sauces, purees, pizza, lasagna, and all of those wonderful Italian and Mexican foods. Dairy Products: Milk, cheese, butter, buttermilk, sour cream, yogurt, whey. You have to ask several questions when you are looking at dairy products. Have the cows been treated with rBGH? What kind of feed have they been given? If they are not being fed organic grains, chances are quite likely that they will be eating genetically engineered animal feed. What does this do to their milk products? No one knows. Animal Products: Because animal feed often contains genetically engineered organisms, all animal products, or by-products may be affected. Crookneck squash is also being genetically engineered, as is cotton. Hence, cottonseed, of which a gum derviative was reported as being an ingredient in Ener-G Replacer by Tom Scut [subject: Re: Egg replacements, 9/26/98]. Cottonseed is also heavily contaminated with pesticides, unless it is organically grown. Mothers for Natural Law says that food may contain these items and be totally free from genetically engineered organisms, but scientists have no way of tracking down every brand, every product, and every ingredient. And, current labels do not tell us whether or not that which is in the product ingredient is genetically engineered because manufacturers are not required to list every ingredient, enzyme, or organism on the label. I believe that if genetic engineering is really so wonderful, let the seed companies and food manufactures shout this on the label --why hide this information? If not, consumers have a right to know. Regardless, we need mandatory labeling which secures the consumers right to know. If you are a citizen of the U.S., sign the petition which urges the President, USDA, FDA, and the Congress to give us Mandatory Labeling of all Genetically Engineered Foods. You will find this information and more at the following website: http://www.safe-food.org/-campaign/petition.html Susan Snow From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 20:21:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA23046 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:21:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA07634; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:11:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07270 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:09:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.138] (pm3shep3-163-151.intrepid.net [209.190.163.151]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25147 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:11:12 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:12:54 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Cows and Pharming Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id UAA07271 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 885 Cows and Clones on a Va.Pharm: Where Animals Make Drugs and Gene Research Goes to the Frontier By Justin Gillis, Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, February 28,1999; Page A01 BLACKSBURG, Va.- On a coldwinter morning, afarmhand leads a Holstein cow named Rosie to her trough. She moos. Behind her, the landscape falls away toward a stream lined with sycamore trees. Mountains tower in the distance. To all appearances, it'sa timeless slice of life from a Virginia farm. But looks deceive. Rosie isno ordinary cow, and this is no ordinary farm. It is, instead, a place atthe cutting edge of worldscience. Amid the gruntsof pigs and the bleats ofhungry calves, the future is taking shape here. The farm is nursery and lab for PPL TherapeuticsInc., the U.S. branch of the company in Scotland whose scientists drew worldwide attention in1997 when they helped to clone a sheep named Dolly from an adult cell. While ethicists have been debating human cloning,while legislators have been considering bans andwhile pastors have beeninveighing againsttampering with God'screation, PPL scientistshave been quietlyplugging away in barnsand pastures here, tryingto sidestep thecontroversy. They seecloning as a quick,efficient way to produceanimals with specialgenetic traits that cansolve health problems,and as a potentiallyprofitable business. Rosie was created throughthe artificialmanipulation of the verystuff of life. Inbillions of cells of herbody, she carries copiesof a human gene. In hermilk, she produces aprotein that's normallymade only by the humanbody. She was designed tobe a factory -- or, moreprecisely, a prototype ofa factory -- tomass-produce the protein,which can be useful inmaking drugs. She showsthat cows, nature's mostprolific producers ofmilk, can be used toadvance medicine. In a pen next to Rosielives a year-old bull.His name is Mr.Jefferson. He is anobtuse, slightly dazedcritter, not yet oldenough to be mean, theway Holstein bulls canget. He doesn't producemilk, of course, but heis there to prove adifferent point. Mr. Jefferson, born on Presidents' Day 1998 and named for Virginia's favorite son, is a clone.He was created from acell of a cow fetus. Thepoint he proves is thatthe scientists working onthis farm can clonecattle, giving themgreater control overgenetic alterations --and the ability, if theywant, to create a herd ofidentical animals inshort order. Up the hill from Rosieand Mr. Jefferson livesome pigs. Like pigsanywhere, they stink. Butthree of them arespecial, containinggenetic modificationsthat may make theirorgans a bit more likethose of human beings.Some day, the people whorun this place envisiongrowing thousands ofgenetically modified pigswhose lives would besacrificed so that theirhearts and kidneys couldbe transplanted into sickpeople. If it works, thistechnique would solve theshortage of organs fortransplant, saving lives. Already, hundreds ofgenetically engineeredPPL sheep in Scotland areturning out a humanprotein calledalpha-1-antitrypsin intheir milk. The sheepwere produced by anearlier method, not bycloning, but they arespecial nevertheless.Alpha-1-antitrypsin fromsheep's milk, impossibleto produce in sufficientquantity by any othermethod, is undergoingtests on humans as apotential treatment forcystic fibrosis, alife-threatening lungdisease. Sheep are good forproducing some drugs, andso are rabbits. But forproteins likely to beneeded in large quantity,cows are likely to be thebest factories. PPL scientists can'treally work with cows inBritain, given thatcountry's scare overanimals infected with"mad cow disease," afatal ailment thatapparently can pass topeople through beefproducts. That is one ofthe factors that led PPLto buy out a tinyBlacksburg biotechnologycompany and expand ontoAmerican soil in 1993.Cattle in North Americaare considered free ofmad cow disease. With little publicattention, PPL's Americanscientists have achievedone milestone afteranother. There is nolonger any doubt thathuman genes can beinserted into cows orthat the mammary glandsof the cows will usethose genes as templatesto make human proteins."We can make the animals,and the animals haveproved that they can makethe product," Ron James,PPL's managing director,said in an interview fromhis home in London. "Thetechnology is a donedeal." Within a decade or so,there are likely to bethousands of "transgenic"cows like Rosie browsingin American pastures,cranking out humanproteins in bulk morecheaply than they couldbe made by any othermethod. Most of thoseproteins will be given topeople as treatments tofight hemophilia andother diseases. PPL is one of three majorbiotechnology companies,and several smaller ones,pursuing thesetechniques. People whowork at these companiesoften say they're"pharming," using animalsto produce drugs. Atleast three drugsproduced this way alreadyhave been given to peoplein tests. In short, these companiesare busy creating anindustry unlike anyother. DNA's Life-GivingPotential Life on earth isregulated by a substanceknown as deoxyribonucleicacid, or DNA. From algaeto whales, all organismscontain microscopicstrands of this chemicalin their cells. The precise order of thechemical units in thestrands varies from oneorganism to the next,giving rise to thefantastic variabilityseen in nature. Whatthose strands of DNA do,mostly, is serve astemplates for producingproteins, the mostimportant constituents ofliving organisms. Since the 1970sscientists have beenmanipulating DNA tocreate new forms of life,and today it's a growingfor-profit business. To date, themanipulations have beencarried out mostly insingle-celled organismsor in mammal cells thatwill grow vigorously in anutrient broth. One ofthe earliest achievementswas to take the gene forhuman insulin, theprotein that controlsblood sugar, and insertit into germs. Thesegerms were then inducedto make large quantitiesof insulin. The lives ofmany diabetics now dependon insulin made this way. Creating germs with humangenes in them is soroutine now that it'sdone in high-schoolscience laboratories.Numerous biotechnologycompanies liningInterstate 270 inMontgomery County performsuch manipulations,searching forcommercially valuableproteins. The technology works. Butit is costly, requiringsterile rooms, highlytrained technicians andhuge vats called"bioreactors." Sobiotechnologists havebegun looking to nature'smost efficient producerof proteins, the breastsof female mammals. Hence the farm inBlacksburg. Technology on the Farm The 900-acre spread isnestled into a valley cutby a clear-flowingstream. Stands of cedar, [spacer]oak and white pine climbthe flanks of lowmountains. Deer andcoyotes roam thecountryside. American agriculturethese days favors huge,flat farms that can beworked by heavymachinery, and it hasbecome hard to make aliving in places likethis. So the two brotherswho were the thirdgeneration of a family toplow this land gave aninterested ear whenresearchers from a tinylocal company turned upone day in 1992 throwingaround phrases like"transgenic livestock."The company was lookingfor a place tocommercialize somegenetic research done atthe nearby VirginiaPolytechnic Institute andState University. The brothers reached adeal with the visitors tolet them use part of thefarm. In 1993 PPLexecutives from Scotlandbought out the Blacksburgcompany to create theirU.S. subsidiary, PPLTherapeutics Inc.,thereby forming the firstmultinational corporationaimed at producingproteins in geneticallyengineered livestock.(When the company wasfounded in Scotland, PPLstood for PharmaceuticalProteins Ltd., but thename was such a tonguetwister it was eventuallydropped.) Since 1993 PPL's generesearch has grown to thepoint that it dominatesthe Blacksburg farm. PPLnow leases most of itsacreage and has hired thetwo brothers asemployees. Other localfarmers have asked PPL tolease their property,too. "It's a way to keepanimals on the land,"said Julian Cooper, PPL'schief U.S. operatingofficer. Fearing animal-rightsprotests, the companyasked that the preciselocation of the farm andthe name of the familythat owns it be withheld.But PPL granted TheWashington Post extensiveaccess to the farm andthe employees workingthere. One of thebrothers who stands toinherit the farm said henever imagined, growingup, that his familyhomestead would one daybe at the leading edge ofa scientific revolution."Never in my wildestdreams," he said. "Thisindustry didn't existwhen I was growing up." Success and Failure PPL employs 32 people inBlacksburg. Themanipulation andincubation of cow and pigembryos is done in alaboratory at the edge ofthe Virginia Tech campus.Work with mice andrabbits takes place in aseparate lab on campus. Two microscopictechniques, including onethat played a role in thecloning of Dolly thesheep, are used to inserthuman genes. The companyalso is trying to removeundesirable animal genes,such as a sugar on thesurface of pig heartsthat prompts the humanbody to reject atransplant. When the PPL scientistshave embryos that appearhealthy and incorporatehuman genes or otherdesirable traits, theytake them to the farm andimplant them into thewombs of surrogatemothers. Not all of these attemptswork out. In some casesthe pregnancies fail. Inothers the genes becomeincorporated into cellsin such a way that theadult animal won'tproduce the desiredproteins efficiently inher milk. But the techniques workoften enough. Close totwo dozen cows and calveson the farm are carryinghuman genes. Rosie, 21/2, is the oldest. Inher milk, she produces ahuman protein calledalpha lactalbumin, likelyto be useful someday as anutritional supplementfor babies and theelderly. Indeed, oneeventual goal of theresearch is to producecow's milk that moreclosely resembles humanmilk, on the theory thatit would be healthier forpeople to drink. Counting what's come fromthe milk of mice,rabbits, sheep and cows,PPL scientists havemanaged to produce morethan 30 human proteinsand are working todevelop 11 of them. Nowthe company is trying tosettle on a protein toproduce in bulk, whichmight take place bycloning a bunch offactory animals. One candidate is aclotting factor needed byhemophiliacs. Thatprotein already is usedas a drug, but it isproduced from donatedhuman blood. That's anexpensive proposition;it's also plagued by theever-present fear ofcontamination if newviruses get into theblood supply, as the AIDSvirus did in the 1980s. Another possibility isalpha-1-antitrypsin. Itcan already be producedfrom human blood, andBayer Corp., thepharmaceutical giant,does so in order to treatpeople who aregenetically deficient inthe protein. Withouttreatment, they areafflicted bylife-threateningemphysema. Yet theprotein is expensive toproduce from blood, is inchronically short supplyand is largelyunavailable outside theUnited States. PPL now is making thisprotein in a flock ofsheep in Scotland, whereit has built a factory topurify the drug, and mayeventually make it incows in the UnitedStates. This has vastlyexpanded the supply andhas allowed the companyto target a new, farlarger group that maybenefit from the drug.These are people who havecystic fibrosis, whichusually chops decades offthe lives of people itstrikes. About 30,000Americans suffer fromcystic fibrosis, and manyof them die as teenagers. Small-scale tests ofalpha-1-antitrypsin incystic fibrosis patientsin Britain have yieldedhopeful results, and PPLhas just begun testing ina handful of people inthe United States. Innovation Breeds Concern The transplantation offoreign genes into plantshas provoked widespreadfear around the worldthat mankind would poisonthe environment. But todate there has been lessconcern about transgeniclivestock, in partbecause the reproductionof animals, unlike thatof field crops, can betightly controlled.Transgenic animals are sovaluable -- they can costmillions of dollarsapiece to create -- thatthey are not likely to beturned loose willy-nillyinto the environment. Some scientists, however,fear that cloning work inanimals could put humansat risk. Margaret Mellon,director of agricultureand biotechnology for theUnion of ConcernedScientists, said that therisks and benefits of thenew technology must beweighed carefully andthat alternatives tocreating transgenicanimals should beexamined. She emphasizedthat regulatory agenciesneed to consider suchvexing issues as how topurify drugs produced inanimals and how to keepanimal germs out ofpeople. "It's one thing to eat acow and just get flesh inyour stomach," she said."It's quite another totake purified cowproducts and inject theminto your blood supply." PPL executives agree thatmany such issues need tobe resolved, but they donot find this sufficientground to slow theirresearch. In 1997 Dolly, the clonedsheep, was sheared of herwool for the first time.A British organizationthat helps cysticfibrosis patients wasinvited to a ceremony andpresented with thefleece. Dolly, a ewe withan attitude, likesattention. Ron James,PPL's managing director,stood to the side andwatched two young girlsfrolicking with her. Both girls were afflicted bycystic fibrosis. To them, "Dolly was just an interesting animal,"said James. "But I kept thinking, if we can't do something about cysticfibrosis, these kids are likely to be dead in 10 or 15 years. That's allthe justification I think we need." © Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 20:23:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA23133 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:23:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA08061; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:14:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07884 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:13:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.138] (pm3shep3-163-151.intrepid.net [209.190.163.151]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25925 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:15:10 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:16:32 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: GE Foodlist Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 886 >POTATOES: Genetically engineered with wax moth insect DNA; genetically >engineered to produce its own pesticide internally with the DNA of bacillus >thuringiensis bacteria. Any more details on this? What variety of potatoes may have GE? Is there any reason to expect GE in YUKON GOLD or KENNEBECK seed potatoes (or from heirloom varities) from Maine this year? Thanks for posting this list! -Allan igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 20:42:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA23389 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:42:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA10940; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:32:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10608 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:30:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.138] (pm3shep3-163-151.intrepid.net [209.190.163.151]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29004 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:32:39 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:19:47 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Effects of electric fences on soils Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 887 FWD from GRAZE-L >From: "Valgeir Bjarnson" >Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph >To: graze-l@taranaki.ac.nz >Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:32:32 EST >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Effects of electric fences on soils >CC: jfgerrat@uoguelph.ca >Sender: owner-graze-l@Vulcan.taranaki.ac.nz >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: "Valgeir Bjarnson" > >Hello Graze-L'ers, > >Last autumn I sent you a request about effects of electric wire on >vegetation and minerals in soils under the electric fences. First of >all I will thank all who responded to my requests. > >I followed this request up with help from Ann Clark and in December >1998 I took some soil samples around fence lines at the 13 year old >Northfork pasture at the Elora research station in Ontario. The soil >samples were taken at directly under the fences, and at 0.5 m and 2.0 >m from the fences, at each of four replicate fields within the 20 ha >pasture. They were analysed for P, K, Mg, pH, Zn and organic matter. >Samples of mosses under the electric fences were collected during the >summer of 1998 and identified by Dr. Joseph F Gerrath at Botany Dept. >University of Guelph. > >Results: > >Plant available phosphorus (P) was twice as high at 2 m from the >fence (27 mg/L soil) as at 0,5 m from the fence (13 mg/L soil) or >under the fences (15 mg/L soil). > >The story was same for plant available potassium (K) which was at 2 m >from the fences 211 mg/L soil, compared to 119 and 96 mg/L soil at 0.5 >m from the fence and under the fence, respectively. > >The difference between 2 m and the other points was significant for >both P and K. > >Plant available magnesium (Mg) was different where it was >significantly higher at 0.5 m from the fence (329 mg/Lsoil) than under >the fences (281 mg/Lsoil), but at 2 m (312 mg/Lsoil) there was no >significant difference from the other points. > >pH was significantly higher under the fences (7.65) than at 0.5 m >(7.55) and at 2 m (7.51) from the fences. > >The Zinc (Zn) was analysed with DTPA method. It was 4 times higher >under the fence (13.0 mg/Lsoil) than at 0.5 m or 2 m from the fence - >3.0 and 2.8 mg/L soil, respectively. The latter values are consistent >with "control" (unamended) Zn levels elsewhere on the research >station. > >The organic matter content was significantly lower under the >fences (4.6%) than at 0.5 m (5.8%) and 2 m (6.7%) from the fences. >All of these figures tend to be higher than elsewhere on the research >station managed under continuous, annual arable crops. > >The mosses were of the following species: > >Brachythecium sp. >Plagiomnium cuspidatum >Ceratodon purureus >Fissidens taxifolius >Bryum sp. >Barbula unguiculata > >The mosses collected from underneath the fences are common in this >area, but with one possible exception (from the genus Bryum) are not >known to be indicative of metal contamination. However, our moss >analyst is not a specialist in this area, so if you want to comment on >these species, we'd be pleased to listen. > >The lesser levels of plant available P and K coupled with lower >organic matter under the fence suggest a net loss of nutrients under >the fence. Cattle graze preferentially under the fence, owing to the >absence of fouling near the fence. The lack of nutrient return via >defecation and urination would progressively remove nutrients under or >near the fence. Whether these levels of soil macronutrient deficiency >are sufficient to repress herbaceous growth is unknown. > >The 4-fold enhancement of soil Zn under the fence line is consistent >with progressive leaching of Zn to the soil from the fence, which is >now rapidly losing its galvanizing. However is 13.0 mg/L soil of Zinc >in soil sufficient to create potential toxicity in herbaceous >vegetation? Does this phenomenon occur with all aging galvanized >fences (e.g. barbed? page wire?) or just with electric fences? Is a >mossy ground cover directly under fenceline actually a blessing in >disguise, reducing risk of shorting out? > >Work planned for this summer will follow up on these intriguing, >preliminary results. If any of you happen to see anything under your >own fences that might contribute to our understanding of these >results, we'd be pleased to hear from you. > >Valgeir Bjarnason > >Valgeir Bjarnason >Plant Agriculture >University of Guelph >Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 >Canada >Phone: +1-519-824-4120 Ext. 3397 >Fax: +1-519-763-8933 >e-mail: bjarnson@plant.uoguelph.ca >Web site in Iceland: http://www.krokur.is/~holar/main.html > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Wed Mar 3 23:38:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA26332 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:38:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA10996; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:26:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10649 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:24:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.76] (pm3shep2-163-76.intrepid.net [209.190.163.76]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA29504 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:26:54 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:27:37 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: President of Whole Foods Market states that he's not against carrying GMO Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 888 Greetings friends: The following is two paragraphs of an article which is in the current issue of the trade magazine, Natural Foods Merchandiser. Chris Hitt is the president of Austin, TX based Whole Foods MArket. They also own, Bread & Circus, Mrs Gooches, Wellspring and Fresh Fields. Norio ************************************************************************** (Chris) Hitt's main point in a speech during a Food Marketing Institute executive conference in Florida was that all genetically modified foods should be labeled as such. He then added that once the labels are in place, he thinks GMOs could have a place at Whole Foods. "The thing I said is that if people think we'd be unalterably opposed to genetically modified foods, they'd be wrong," he said in an interview with the Natural Foods Merchandiser. ************************************************************************** ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 08:09:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA01164 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:09:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA18608; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:00:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA18406 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:57:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp23.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.123]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id GAA06095 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 06:57:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001f01be663e$873bc7c0$7b4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: "BD NOW LIST" Subject: FW: Maple Syruping update from Kickapoo River Valley Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 06:57:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 889 Hi everyone - I am having fun with the start up of my maple syrup business this spring! I loved working in the dairy industry over the last 15 years of my career, but I think the maple syrup industry is going to be even more fun. There is nothing better than having a legitimate excuse to spend all day in the woods on these beautiful spring days here in Wisconsin! I have been in the woods late enough some days this week that I was able to watch the full moon rise through the branches of the maple trees - it just does not get any better than that. We have 150 maple tree taps so far and another 150 to do. Then next year I will be starting a maple syrup cooperative of several land owners in the upper Kickapoo River Valley region. Plans are for the members of the coop to collect maple sap from a total of around 20,000 maple tree taps, then I will be processing the sap into syrup and marketing the syrup in Europe. I'll keep you informed as the business develops over the coming months! >From Ocooch Mountain Acres with Love - Ruth Ocooch Mountain Acres*, LLC Ruth Gerber Rupp, President [[ MAPI 1.0 storage : 1028 in winmail.dat ]] Office address: P.O. Box 88, Viroqua, Wisconsin, USA 54665-0088 Farm address: S 3701 Vance Hill Road LaFarge, Wisconsin, USA 54639-8025 Office Phone: 608-625-4309 or 800-253-3997 Cellular phone: 608-632-0197 FAX: 608-625-4329 Home phone: 608-625-4307 Business E-mail: ocoochmt@frontiernet.net Personal E-mail: ruthrupp@mwt.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 09:44:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA02618 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:44:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00015; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:34:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29585 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:32:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0095AD26@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 9:34:06 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 4 Mar 99 09:33:58 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 4 Mar 99 09:33:55 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:33:51 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: web page Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <117E0EC72137@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 890 Just to say that I read the Tompkins article too. I don't think it's fair to assume that only the people who commented on it are the ones with www access. I love getting web links. Anita From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 09:50:41 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA02705 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:50:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00964; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:40:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00791 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:39:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0095AF64@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 9:41:32 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 4 Mar 99 09:41:24 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 4 Mar 99 09:41:13 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:41:09 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: camelid manures and your interview Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <01BE62DC.E70452E0@FLYLO> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <117E2DF50DC4@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 891 As I crawl through my e-mail messages, I now see why you were expecting more response to your web page. Well, perhaps there are others out there like me who had no idea how difficult it is to make a web page nor that it was made especially for this list serve. It never occured to me to give feedback to a web page creator, but I will think differently now. And for the record, thank you very much for all your hard work that allowed us to share something very special. I have read Secrets of the Soil, but, like Martha, had no idea that the author had so many other books, and there were many other new things I learned from that interview. > >And, I wanted to tell you I did go to the site and read your interview with > >Peter Tomkins. I hadn't realized he'd written so many 'Secrets Life Of...' > >and was surprised. The interview was excellent, and I really liked the > >comments you made about the BD NOW group. The fact that he was thinking > >about joining up was rather exciting. I think most people are like myself. > >We don't think to comment back to the author of the site that we enjoyed > >the information and article, tho we do often explore each other's web > >pages. > > hmmm, I'm really at a loss to understand the rationale of your last > sentence, not that you are wrong, but that it is so outside of my own > expectations. There are DAYS of work in that page and it's chock-full 'o > unique information. From my perspective, the only currency one has to > invest towards some further efforts by the author would be to express > appreciation or at least acknowledgement of the work so far. Or, as I've > said before: if we want to see our special interests on the web, we have to > make some effort to support the people who have found the time to put stuff > out there. Or in simpler terms: eating a meal, be it for stomach or mind or > spirit without thanking the host seems pretty 'rude' at best. What better > can we hope for than the companionship of minds with similar values? > > I learned a long time ago that one has to be self-actualized to do this > work, so that's not the problem. Understanding where people are coming > from, however, from remarks like those above, is something I can't quite > get my mind around. > > I know that some people will rationlize: "Oh, he does this to sell those > books." While, in reality, our total booksales through BD Now! for this > YEAR is about $18.00 gross with a dividend from AMAZON of about $1.70. The > links are there more for helping readers to access information, to help Mr. > Tompkins sell some books (his sales aren't that hot either, in case you > didn't know!) and, as noted above, making people aware that Mr. Tompkins > has explored a v. wide range of information in his long career. > > Thanks, Martha, for finding the time to read the interview. > > Later > > -Allan > > Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 10:04:13 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02974 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:04:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA03240; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:55:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA03038 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:54:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.102] (pm3shep1-163-52.intrepid.net [209.190.163.52]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05563 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:56:25 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <117E2DF50DC4@agecon.uga.edu> References: <01BE62DC.E70452E0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:56:17 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: camelid manures and your interview Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 892 Let me try this one more time (and not directed to any particular poster): this wasn't initally about 'thank you,' but really observing how little discussion follows most references to web pages. However, I have to admit that I don't understand this rather common phrase "It never occured to me to give feedback to a web page creator," given that the creator is in this rather small virtual community and we 'all' speak daily. Which brings back my other statement: if can't co-evolve, we can't evolve at all. IMHO opinion, there has never been a tool as powerful for co-evolution at the 'net, but all that gets lost when users start mistaking it for television with a keyboard remote control. -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! >As I crawl through my e-mail messages, I now see why you were >expecting more response to your web page. Well, perhaps there are >others out there like me who had no idea how difficult it is to make >a web page nor that it was made especially for this list serve. It >never occured to me to give feedback to a web page creator, but I >will think differently now. And for the record, thank you very much >for all your hard work that allowed us to share something very >special. I have read Secrets of the Soil, but, like Martha, had no >idea that the author had so many other books, and there were many >other new things I learned from that interview. > >> >And, I wanted to tell you I did go to the site and read your interview with >> >Peter Tomkins. I hadn't realized he'd written so many 'Secrets Life Of...' >> >and was surprised. The interview was excellent, and I really liked the >> >comments you made about the BD NOW group. The fact that he was thinking >> >about joining up was rather exciting. I think most people are like myself. >> >We don't think to comment back to the author of the site that we enjoyed >> >the information and article, tho we do often explore each other's web >> >pages. >> >> hmmm, I'm really at a loss to understand the rationale of your last >> sentence, not that you are wrong, but that it is so outside of my own >> expectations. There are DAYS of work in that page and it's chock-full 'o >> unique information. From my perspective, the only currency one has to >> invest towards some further efforts by the author would be to express >> appreciation or at least acknowledgement of the work so far. Or, as I've >> said before: if we want to see our special interests on the web, we have to >> make some effort to support the people who have found the time to put stuff >> out there. Or in simpler terms: eating a meal, be it for stomach or mind or >> spirit without thanking the host seems pretty 'rude' at best. What better >> can we hope for than the companionship of minds with similar values? >> >> I learned a long time ago that one has to be self-actualized to do this >> work, so that's not the problem. Understanding where people are coming >> from, however, from remarks like those above, is something I can't quite >> get my mind around. >> >> I know that some people will rationlize: "Oh, he does this to sell those >> books." While, in reality, our total booksales through BD Now! for this >> YEAR is about $18.00 gross with a dividend from AMAZON of about $1.70. The >> links are there more for helping readers to access information, to help Mr. >> Tompkins sell some books (his sales aren't that hot either, in case you >> didn't know!) and, as noted above, making people aware that Mr. Tompkins >> has explored a v. wide range of information in his long career. >> >> Thanks, Martha, for finding the time to read the interview. >> >> Later >> >> -Allan >> >> > > >Anita Graf >313-F Conner Hall >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics >University of Georgia >Athens, GA 30602-7509 >(706) 542-1915 phone >(706) 542-0739 fax >agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 10:52:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04281 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10716; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:43:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10423 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:41:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0095C0CD@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:43:44 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 4 Mar 99 10:43:36 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 4 Mar 99 10:43:18 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:43:15 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: camelid manures and your interview Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <117E2DF50DC4@agecon.uga.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <117F36D7108C@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 893 > Let me try this one more time (and not directed to any particular poster): > this wasn't initally about 'thank you,' but really observing how little > discussion follows most references to web pages. However, I have to admit > that I don't understand this rather common phrase "It never occured to me > to give feedback to a web page creator," given that the creator is in this > rather small virtual community and we 'all' speak daily. Which brings back > my other statement: if can't co-evolve, we can't evolve at all. > > IMHO opinion, there has never been a tool as powerful for co-evolution at > the 'net, but all that gets lost when users start mistaking it for > television with a keyboard remote control. > Geez Allan, please chill. Many of us are new to the computer age and just getting up to speed (though we must be all well versed in tv...) Nine year olds who can create web pages in their sleep are probably at an advantage to those of us who didnt' even know about the existence of computers at that formative age. I think it's pretty natural that one does not feel compelled to talk to a picture (which is what a web page appears to be) and yet will participate in a direct conversation with people (which is what a list serve appears to be). If you were at an art gallery and happened to be standing next to the artist but didn't realize it (or maybe you did realize it but chose to remain silent), should I pounce on you for not engaging in conversation with him/her? All I'm saying is that you may be experiencing a king of culture shock with a less computer literate culture, but that does not mean that we're just tv boobs unwilling to evolve. Or it may just be a matter of a very ancient dynamic between those who speak up and those who don't (but may be listening all the same). Just like in a class room, there are people on this list serve who "sit at the front of the class" and comment on EVERYTHING, there are some who chime in from time to time, and then there are the "lurkers" who only participate passively. No one is to say who is getting more out of the discussion or who is more actively participating in the co-evolution (in my humble opinion). Anita From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 11:31:26 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05638 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:31:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17535; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:21:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17141 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:20:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from laquerencia@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D4VMSW9J; Thu, 04 Mar 1999 11:21:56 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:11:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Another good GE list from the OGL from Last Sept Message-ID: <19990304.102257.6550.3.LaQuerencia@juno.com> References: <55DBDF563C89C0138525672A0004B556.0000000000000000@webcity> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-6,8-15,17-122 From: Deborah M Byron Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 894 Dear Jane, I very much appreciate your posts to BDNow on GE issues and other current events. I'd like to forward this one on to someone but first would like to know the meaning of "OGL" (I could take a pretty good guess, but want thim to be able to cite the source accurately). Be sure and let us know how the fight to save the NYC community gardens is going. Warm regrds, Deborah Byron LaQuerencia@juno.com On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:52:32 -0500 Jane Sherry/wcdev/US writes: >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >A number of people had a problem with the estimated 60 to 70 percent >figure of genetically engineered foods that can turn up on grocery >store >shelves. > >Perhaps, this occurred because I misread the information before >posting >it. The data DID NOT read 60 to 70 percent of the seeds. Rather, 60 >to >70 percent of the products of primarily processed foods are being >genetically engineered. > >My apologies. > >Nevertheless, consider this: > >Soy flour, soy oil, lecithin, soy protein isolates and concentrates. >Products that may contain genetically engineered soy derivatives: >vitamin E, tofu dogs, cereals, veggie burgers and sausages, tamari, >soy >sauce, chips, ice cream, frozen yogurt, infant formula, sauces, >protein >powder, margarine, soy cheeses, crackers, breads, cookies, chocolates, >candies, fried foods, shampoo, bubble bath, cosmetics, enriched flours >and pastas. > >Corn flour, corn starch, corn oil, corn sweeteners, syrups. Products >that may contain genetically engineered corn derivatives: >vitamin C, tofu dogs, chips, candies, ice cream, infant formula, salad >dressings, tomato sauces, breads, cookies, cereals, baking powder, >alcohol, vanilla, margarine, soy sauce, tamari, soda, fried foods, >powdered sugar, enriched flours and pastas. > >Canola: Oil. Products that may contain genetically engineered canola >derivatives: chips, salad dressings, cookies, margarine, soaps, >detergents, soy cheeses, fried foods. > >Cotton: Oil, fabric, seed-meal. Products that may contain genetically >engineered cotton or its derivatives: clothes, linens, chips, peanut >butter, crackers, cookies. > >Potatoes: Right now the only potato that has been genetically >engineered >is the Burbank Russet, but you still have to look out for potato >starch >and flour. Products that may contain genetically engineered potatoes >or >derivatives: unspecified processed or restaurant potato products >(fries, >mashed, baked, mixes, etc.), chips, Passover products, vegetable pies, >soups. > >Tomatoes: No plum or roma tomatoes have been genetically engineered. >But one cherry tomato has, as have regular tomatoes. Products that may >contain genetically engineered tomatoes or derivatives: sauces, >purees, pizza, lasagna, and all of those wonderful Italian and Mexican >foods. > >Dairy Products: Milk, cheese, butter, buttermilk, sour cream, yogurt, >whey. You have to ask several questions when you are looking at dairy >products. Have the cows been treated with rBGH? What kind of feed have >they been given? If they are not being fed organic grains, chances are >quite likely that they will be eating genetically engineered animal >feed. What does this do to their milk products? No one knows. > >Animal Products: Because animal feed often contains genetically >engineered organisms, all animal products, or by-products may be >affected. > >Crookneck squash is also being genetically engineered, as is cotton. > >Hence, cottonseed, of which a gum derviative was reported as being an >ingredient in Ener-G Replacer by Tom Scut [subject: Re: Egg >replacements, 9/26/98]. Cottonseed is also heavily contaminated with >pesticides, unless it is organically grown. > >Mothers for Natural Law says that food may contain these items and be >totally free from genetically engineered organisms, but scientists >have >no way of tracking down every brand, every product, and every >ingredient. And, current labels do not tell us whether or not that >which is in the product ingredient is genetically engineered because >manufacturers are not required to list every ingredient, enzyme, or >organism on the label. > >I believe that if genetic engineering is really so wonderful, let the >seed companies and food manufactures shout this on the label --why >hide >this information? If not, consumers have a right to know. >Regardless, >we need mandatory labeling which secures the consumers right to know. > >If you are a citizen of the U.S., sign the petition which urges the >President, USDA, FDA, and the Congress to give us Mandatory Labeling >of >all Genetically Engineered Foods. You will find this information and >more at the following website: >http://www.safe-food.org/-campaign/petition.html > >Susan Snow > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 12:19:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07232 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:19:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28007; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:09:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27507 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:08:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.36] (pm3shep1-163-36.intrepid.net [209.190.163.36]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02787 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:10:08 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:43:54 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Organic Forum: Chlorine use on Sprouts in excess of OFPA Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 895 forwarded from Erorganic@aol.com The Organic Forum Facilitated by Eric Kindberg, certified organic farmer erorganic@aol.com contributions and comments are sought March 4, 1999 Subject: discussion on chlorine use on sprouts marketed as "organically produced." A note, that under OFPA, sprouts could be treated with higher levels of chlorine or other disinfectants than allowed under OFPA and still the sprouts could be labeled as produced with "organically produced" seed. (OFPA directs Safe Drinking Water Act as limits for chlorine use in organic farming and processing, namely no higher than 4 ppm and that no substance can be used in organic crop, wild crop and livestock production that is synthetic and not included on the National List as an "allowed synthetic substance" or that is prohibited for use in organic farming because the substance is on the National List as a "prohibited natural substance") Another note, that during my present stay in California, a State registered "organic" seller at farmers markets has decided to drop the sale of "organic" alfalfa sprouts because of the State requesting "shock" treatment with chlorine on that species of sprout. They will continue non treatment of the 12 other variety of sprouts they market. California: >Sender: "Brian McElroy" The California Department of Health Services, Food and Drug Branch now >recommend 20,000 ppm chlorine seed soak. Some CCOF producers report using >10,000 ppm. This is under review by CCOF and I personnaly cannot support >it. > >I hope that CCOF's standards committee will make a clear decision on this >chlorine issue in May. It appear that only the alfalfa sprouts are being >recommended for such treatment? > >Can other certifiers tell me what they are requiring? Your practices will >help me in my presentation to the CCOF standards committee. > >I know that QAI producers are generally following the DHS standards and >using high chlorine levels in the shock treatment similar to CCOF. > >-----Original Message----- >From: NOFANJ@aol.com [mailto:NOFANJ@aol.com] Subject: more discussion on chlorine/ sprouts > > >Another in the series of occasional postings on the use of chlorine for >organic sprouts. Brian McElroy has replied on the use at CCOF, and I have >also >included an earlier communication from David Gould. Sorry if anyone got this >twice. >Emily > > > >Subj: RE: Sprouts >Date: 3/1/99 6:44:20 PM Eastern Standard Time >Sender: bm@ccof.org (Brian McElroy) > >Hi. Late to the game but here is what CCOF has allowed: >2,000 ppm as a seed soak for 5 minutes, a rinse is required after the seed >soak. CCOF continues to debate this issue and would like to reduce the seed >soak level. > >Problem is that California DHS appears to be forcing the seed soak on >growers as a "recommendation" yet legally it is not "required." > >We have asked DHS to provide "alternative" recommendations. No word yet. > >I'd be happy to hear what other certifiers are doing. I do not like the >chlorine "shock" thing. > >SUE TanEyck is now dealing with this issue in our office. >- Brian McElroy > >********************** > >Subj: Re: Sprouts >Date: 2/5/99 10:17:49 AM Eastern Standard Time >From: DavidGould@compuserve.com (David Gould) >To: NOFANJ@aol.com (INTERNET:NOFANJ@aol.com) > >Hi Emily, > >Thanks for your response. I pasted below here a small piece I wrote last >summer at Brian McElroy's request; I doubt he'd have any problem with me >sharing this with you. It may not be anything new, but it does summarize >the approach we took on this issue, and is still, to my mind, the one we >should take. Quite frankly, if we have to treat organic sprouts in ways >which the FDA and some others suggest, I think it is a sign we are doing >something pretty wrong - definitely not attacking the problem at its >source, for one thing. > >Kind regards, >David > >SPROUTS: > >There is increasing concern, both in the conventional and organic sectors, >about microbial contamination in sprouts. One common practice which >attempts to avoid this problem is treatment of sprouting seeds with >chlorine, in doses ranging from extremely high "shock treatments" to >somewhat lower concentrations. While some people claim these methods to be >effective, scientific research (of which there has been very little on the >subject of microbial control in sprouts) is inconclusive, stating that such >methods are not the absolute insurance for which some people are hoping. > The chlorine "shock" usually involves treatments of seed with 2000 >ppm chlorine in water for a period of about 5 minutes. Chlorination of >water ranges in practice down as low as 80 ppm (or perhaps even less), but >the exposure time to the seeds must be increased dramatically, usually 5 >hours or more at these lower levels. > Both of the above methods pose some basic problems for the producer >of certified organic sprouts. Since seeds begin imbibing water >immediately, the chlorine in the water is also imbibed, thereby making the >chlorinated water an ingredient in the final product. Organic >certification standards state that water as an ingredient in organic foods >must be in compliance with Safe Drinking Water Act limits for chlorine, >namely no higher than 4 ppm, obviously much lower than the treatments >described above. > Some organic operators have claimed that their final sprouts >products can be analyzed (or already have been analyzed) by laboratories >for residual chlorine, and the sprouts show no detectable residue. >However, it must be stated that to our knowledge, there are not good >laboratory protocols for detection of chlorine in food products, only for >water, and this detection limit is above the 4 ppm tolerance set. >Regardless of such claims about residue testing, organic certification is a >production standard, not a residue standard; residue testing can be a >useful tool, but thus far has not been so, in the case of sprouts and >chlorine. > Perhaps a better way to think about the chlorine getting into the >final food product is to calculate the amount of treated water imbibed by >the seeds by weighing the seeds pre- and post-treatment, and knowing the >concentration of chlorine in the treatment water, arriving at the amount of >chlorine imbibed. What the chlorine does to the seed is a different, >incompletely answered question. > Another factor which argues against use of chlorine to treat the >outside of seeds is that seed coats are not impermeable to microbes, which >can enter cracks and crevices in seed coats and lie in wait to infect the >product later on, after the seed has been rinsed of its initial dose of >disinfectant. Longer exposure times to the disinfectants might ameliorate >this (as the seed takes in more and more treated water), but this is >contrary to organic standards, for reasons already discussed. > Still, there is no question that microbial control is an important >issue for all sprout producers. Fortunately there are methods which have >proven themselves effective for certified organic production. Facility >cleanliness and good handling and sanitation practices are essential, as is >a good and plentiful supply of potable water. Starting with clean >equipment, personnel, and (as much as possible) seeds themselves, are >necessary precautions. Frequent rinsing of seeds is perhaps the best way >of all to ensure that microbial contaminants are freed from seeds. >Vigilance to cleanliness must be practiced. This is all possible within >the confines of materials and practices allowed by organic production >standards for processed foods. > Within organic standards, there are materials available to help >reduce risk of microbial proliferation. (Remember, no treatment alone is >an absolute assurance.) The International Sprout Growers Association >recommends a treatment of 6% hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), or a heat treatment >at 135 F for 5 minutes (this gets tricky, maintaining temperature and not >losing viability of the seeds). Another possibility might be peroxyacetic >acid (also called peracetic acid or periacetic acid), no higher than 80 ppm >(federally mandated limit). However, it must be stated very clearly that >these above materials are approved by organic standards as generic >materials alone, and that some commercial formulations may contain >stabilizing stabilizers or other "inert" compounds which make them >prohibited for use in certified organic systems. > In closing, while microbial control is a real concern in sprouts >production, confidence in the safety of the foods should be possible in >virtually all production systems, provided there is understanding of the >factors involved in each individual operation, and vigilance and diligence >are practiced. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 12:24:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07344 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:24:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA29199; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:15:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28670 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:12:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.84]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:15:40 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:15:13 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Another good GE list from the OGL from Last Sept Message-ID: <5332B6CAA54807AA8525672A005E8A59.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 896 Dear Deborah, Unfortunately Rudy the fascist mayor is moving ahead with his bulldozing of gardens uptown as far as I know. OGL stands for Organic gardening List...where a GE argument went on for several weeks with some members feeling as though GE was NOT an organic gardening issue, if you can believe that! Best Regards, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 15:06:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11433 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:06:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA04159; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:56:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03976 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:55:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.84]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:58:52 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:58:23 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Organic Forum: Chlorine use on Sprouts in excess of OFPA Message-ID: <251BB51580424D508525672A006D7B42.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 897 This may not help those who produce and sell sprouts for a living, but for the consumer as with so much other food, there's always Bill Duesing's suggestion: grow your own. Forwarded without permission from a sanet posting: ---- Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:24:38 -0500 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: Growing Sprouts Living on the Earth, February 19 1999, Growing Sprouts Growing sprouts on your kitchen counter through the winter is an easy way to make a big difference. This small effort produces both personal and global benefits. Sprouting seeds in jars or trays is a traditional way of producing delicious and nutritious, fresh organic vegetables in less than a week's time. And, eating homemade sprouts instead of west-coast lettuce is a wonderful way to "just say no" to some of the most damaging aspects of our food system. This winter, I've been growing a steady supply of a combination of alfalfa, radish and Chinese cabbage sprouts. This mix has a zesty blend of flavors, a delightful crisp crunchiness and lots of nutritional benefits. Sprouting is very easy. The process simply takes advantage of the stored energy in seeds. When the warmth, moisture and air needed for germination are provided, embryos closed in softened seed coats come to life. In each one, a tiny root pops out and lifts the cotyledons which surrounded it inside the seed, up to the light as they open and turn green. We make sprouts in a wide-mouth, quart canning jar, capped with a piece of flexible window screening held on with a canning band. Start with about two tablespoons of seeds. Soak them overnight in tepid water. Soaking softens the seeds and facilitates the germination process. The next morning, pour out the soaking water, rinse the seeds with fresh, cool water and drain them. Repeat the rinsing and draining process two-to-four times daily. After three or four days, the little plants will be big enough to eat. As you keep rinsing and eating them, they continue to grow. After a week-to-ten days, the sprouts will have used up all their stored energy. If they're not eaten by this time, refrigerate them. Because sprouts are alive, they still appreciate an occasional rinsing to bring in fresh air and water and to remove waste products. Start a second jar before the first one is empty and you'll have a continuous harvest of this delicious food! Sprouts are a great snack. We also use them on sandwiches, with eggs and stir-frys, as well as in salads and as a garnish on soups and stews. Radish sprouts provide a pleasant tang. Cabbage sprouts are very flavorful. As members of the brassica family, both cabbage and radish sprouts supply important, health-building flavonoids, antioxidants and protective enzyme inducers for our bodies. We plan to try broccoli sprouts soon. Research indicates that they have up to 50 times the concentration of anti-cancer compounds found in mature broccoli. Alfalfa sprouts have a milder taste in addition to lots of vitamins and helpful enzymes. Many other seeds can be sprouted too! Grains such as wheat, rye, barley and buckwheat germinate easily, as do legumes like lentils, mung and garbanzo beans. Seeds for sunflowers, onions, fenugreek and many of the greens we grow in the garden make good sprouts. Most of the plants in those expensive mesclun salad mixes can be germinated together to provide delicious flavor. We start with fresh, organic seeds from the natural food store. You can use regular garden seeds if you're absolutely certain they haven't been treated with chemicals. Although the seeds may seem expensive, two tablespoons of them grow to fill a quart jar in a week. A pound of alfalfa seeds will produce 12 gallons of sprouts. Once you get production going on the sprout farm around your kitchen sink, you'll have little reason to buy iceberg lettuce shipped in from western deserts. The USDA says that 92 percent of our lettuce is grown there, that 62 different chemicals are used to grow it, and that over half of the lettuce samples tested contained detectable pesticide residues. Expensive government irrigation projects water this lettuce, to the severe detriment of other ecosystems. Very large west coast lettuce farms depend on low-paid, immigrant labor to harvest the crop and on a large fleet of trucks to transport their product (which is 95 percent water) all the way across the country. Growing sprouts in your kitchen may seem like a small agricultural act, but it is a very easy and powerful step you can take to improve the health of both your family and the environment. Discover the joys of sprouting seeds. Start some today. This is Bill Duesing, Living on the Earth (C) 1999, Bill Duesing, Solar Farm Education, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 Bill and Suzanne Duesing operate the Old Solar Farm (raising NOFA/CT certified organic vegetables) and Solar Farm Education (working on urban agriculture projects in southern Connecticut and producing "Living on the Earth" radio programs). Their collection of essays Living on the Earth: Eclectic Essays for a Sustainable and Joyful Future is available from Bill Duesing, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 for $14 postpaid. These essays first appeared on WSHU, public radio from Fairfield, CT. New essays are posted weekly at http://www.wshu.org/duesing and those since November 1995 are available there. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 15:44:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12521 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:44:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12243; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:34:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA11692 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:32:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10IepB-0007YA-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:34:30 -0800 Message-ID: <36DEEE0C.81590D22@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:33:16 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: GE responsibility (in my opinion not OFF) References: <005001be65cf$68521cc0$4f411ccb@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 898 I have mentioned a similar approach ( several times) on BDNOW and have asked that members of BDNOW visit the MONSANTO. COM Web Site and make themselves heared under the topic Investors Comments etc. I have submitted my complaint and demanded that shareholders be fully informed of the potential risk of a monster lawsuite in due course. If many members do that, perhaps there may be someone listening higher up in the management. There are other venues, too. Perhaps Newspapers should be contacted that make such a case, too. Regards Ferdinand D & S Chamberlain wrote: > My Friends: For some time now I have enjoyed the BDNOW list and it has > certainly opened my mind to different aspects of BD. I am finding the > information on GE disturbing and I would like to put forward a thought. > If in the future the warnings on GM are proved to be correct, can the owners > of this product be charged with crimes against humanity? If they can, then > perhaps the shareholders etc of the companies concerned should be warned, > maybe just maybe it will cause some to stop and think. > David Chamberlain > Email kwi@midcoast.com.au -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 16:13:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13577 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:13:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA17945; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:01:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from hromeo.algonet.se (hromeo.algonet.se [194.213.74.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA17537 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:00:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 21033 invoked from network); 4 Mar 1999 22:02:14 +0100 Received: from du151-98.ppp.algonet.se (HELO ?195.100.145.101?) (195.100.98.151) by hromeo.algonet.se with SMTP; 4 Mar 1999 22:02:14 +0100 X-Sender: tyling@pop.algonet.se Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:04:28 +0200 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: tyling@algonet.se (Lovebirds) Subject: Re:Tompkins interview Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 899 >Great interview!!! Peter Tompkins is a very interesting man. I have read >the Secret Life of Plants, and now want to read Secrets of the >Soil......... but have been told that it is out of print. Did the new >edition of that book really get out by the end of 1998??? If so, who is the >publisher? >regards... >donaterra Hi Donaterra. Hace been looking for these stwo books a long time, does anyone know where I can get them????? Kosotie Ansvarspartiet. Swedens new party, Responsibility. Healthcenter in Spain. Fruitarian org Justa Bananer. Mailto:tyling@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~tyling/index.htm Tel/ph:++46-(0)40-461682 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 16:14:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13587 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:14:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA18568; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:04:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18421 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:04:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10IfJw-0004fL-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:06:16 -0800 Message-ID: <36DEF582.E6F0C4AC@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 13:05:06 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Cosmic Pipe (ETHERIC SEEING and HOW!) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 900 Friends, The more you concentrate on your intellectual thinking, the less you can see the ethers. How shall I explain what is happening to me when they occur: Firstly, of course, it is important that one knows that there may be such a thing. You really cannot see a thing at all if you do not a) know what you are looking for and b) how to look for it and c) where to look for d.) when to look for it and e) with what members of your body. (there may be other constraints, but those I have indicated suffice for the moment) Imagine you had to look for 'something' during the night. You know that you have to look for something but, you also know that you cannot see it with your eyes. So, the eyes are out. Now, you can see with other body parts, too. YOur skin! YOur skin is one of the most amazing eye (all over your body you are eye - it is wonderful). We often (totally) forget how well the skin can see (just think of making love...). But now, knowing that we can use our fingers or feet, we know that we can look for that something with our extended eyes. And the next thing we will have to ask: what is it? So, assuming it is a necklace with a certain stone attached to it, we can go to work. And it is likely that, by crawling around (in the area we believe it could be) that we find it. And now, we can do the same with finding these ethers. At this very moment they are almost too obvious to see (at least in our area). Their pinkish red (life ether) is just popping out of the skins of each and every alder and maple. You see, to begin with, we do not have to concentrate on anything but our eyes. The eyes can see them, too. So, go out (those of you who live somewhat further North) and see the tender pinkish hue 'dancing' above the still 'naked' (non foliage covered) shrubs, trees and bushes. Of course we cannot see these ethers where there are no (physical) possibilities to express themselves. Yet, still, they are there, too. In such a situation, you will have to concentrate on your third eye. And that needs a bit of training. Get rid of your intellectual thinking. Forget about words and utterances such as: well, I cannot do it because I am..... or I know someone who can, but I, never....... and so forth or: that's stupid stuff, why should I. Or: I am scared (of what?). Those either intellectual analytical thoughts or the (self) scare has to be overcome. Perhaps that is easier said than done. Let your heart be filled with love for nature, for love of yourself, for the creation and go (slowly) forward. Take a sprouting rye grass and place it in front of you and observe it for a few minutes very carefully. Then, close your eyes. Listen to your heart and make a statement by saying: Here, this little sprouting rye grass IS in front of me (which you have placed in front of you). And you, now, recall the rye grass, as you have observed it beforehand. Try to see it. And now, as a next move, remove, consciously, the 'material' rye grass, step by step. Of course, it may be a bit difficult to begin with, but, after two or three trays , you will find that as soon as the 'material' has been removed there appears a rye (picture) that is unlike the grass that you have seen beforehand. Colorful, perhaps not so colorful, perhaps oscillating, perhaps.......... I really have to leave this open to each of you because there is NO RULE how that rye grass is going to divulge or present itself to you. Here lies the secret of a new relationship between you and what lies behind the rye grass (and any plant, animal, the stones and human beings). It is totally different than what you can say about a physical thing where science can easily duplicate a test or describe a material thing in every detail. This does NOT happen with ethereal observations BECAUSE you see them in your 'feelings' too. And the world of our feelings reflect a thing subjectively. Well, go from here. Start with a small step. Don't (unless you are advanced) start with difficult things such as animals, people or crowds. That is for later. There is much more to it. AND, avoid working with this as long as you take drugs. Cleanse yourself first. For several weeks, please! Why? Distortions. Excarnating process. You may really loose yourself and..... we do not want to loose you (Walk-ins, double occupancy, schizophrenia etc. etc.) Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >I wonder if this sense is where man broke with the past? Why we are > >blinded to the ethers that are constantly flowing. How did this occur? > >Was man able once to see these? Is it the ridicule and objectiveness of > >politeness that creates the dillusion of total materialism? > > A Great Question, Well Phrased, Michael! Thank You, -Allan igg@igg.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 16:14:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13599 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:14:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA18077; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:02:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from hromeo.algonet.se (hromeo.algonet.se [194.213.74.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA17551 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:00:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 20987 invoked from network); 4 Mar 1999 22:02:12 +0100 Received: from du151-98.ppp.algonet.se (HELO ?195.100.145.101?) (195.100.98.151) by hromeo.algonet.se with SMTP; 4 Mar 1999 22:02:12 +0100 X-Sender: tyling@pop.algonet.se Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:04:26 +0200 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: tyling@algonet.se (Lovebirds) Subject: Re: Living Energies book Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 901 >Andy wrote: > >>However I have found out that the Living Energies book is currently out of >>print and I think there are probably some stores that still have stock, if >>anybody knows where or has a suggestion where to buy it I welcome it, >>Thanks. > >I received my copy as a gift quite recently. It was special ordered through >Borders and arrived in about 2 weeks. What a fantastic book! The closest >thing I've seen yet to an engineering handbook for the new millenium... > >Living Energies: An Exposition of Concepts Related to the Theories of >Viktor Schauberger >by Callum Coats >Gateway Books, Bath, UK >ISBN 0-946551-97-9 >312 pages, plenty of diagrams and photos > >-Guy Hi folks. I´m new on this list. Have plans to start a healthcenter in the south of Spain with ecological forrestgardening and permaculture, based on a fruitarian lifestyle. Where can I buy this book? Nice thougts from Kosotie Ansvarspartiet. Swedens new party, Responsibility. Healthcenter in Spain. Fruitarian org Justa Bananer. Mailto:tyling@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~tyling/index.htm Tel/ph:++46-(0)40-461682 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 16:20:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13812 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:20:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA19645; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:10:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19391 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:09:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0103.direct.ca ([204.244.83.3] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10IfOz-0002Py-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:11:29 -0800 Message-ID: <36DEF6BB.FF508021@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 13:10:19 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Effects of electric fences on soils References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 902 BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO! MANY THANKS. (NEXT TEST: WHAT DOES THE APPLICATION OF COMPOST, 500 AND 501 CHANGE. REGARDS FERDINAND Intergalactic Garage wrote: > FWD from GRAZE-L > > >From: "Valgeir Bjarnson" > >Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph > >To: graze-l@taranaki.ac.nz > >Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:32:32 EST > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Subject: Effects of electric fences on soils > >CC: jfgerrat@uoguelph.ca > >Sender: owner-graze-l@Vulcan.taranaki.ac.nz > >Precedence: bulk > >Reply-To: "Valgeir Bjarnson" > > > >Hello Graze-L'ers, > > > >Last autumn I sent you a request about effects of electric wire on > >vegetation and minerals in soils under the electric fences. First of > >all I will thank all who responded to my requests. > > > >I followed this request up with help from Ann Clark and in December > >1998 I took some soil samples around fence lines at the 13 year old > >Northfork pasture at the Elora research station in Ontario. The soil > >samples were taken at directly under the fences, and at 0.5 m and 2.0 > >m from the fences, at each of four replicate fields within the 20 ha > >pasture. They were analysed for P, K, Mg, pH, Zn and organic matter. > >Samples of mosses under the electric fences were collected during the > >summer of 1998 and identified by Dr. Joseph F Gerrath at Botany Dept. > >University of Guelph. > > > >Results: > > > >Plant available phosphorus (P) was twice as high at 2 m from the > >fence (27 mg/L soil) as at 0,5 m from the fence (13 mg/L soil) or > >under the fences (15 mg/L soil). > > > >The story was same for plant available potassium (K) which was at 2 m > >from the fences 211 mg/L soil, compared to 119 and 96 mg/L soil at 0.5 > >m from the fence and under the fence, respectively. > > > >The difference between 2 m and the other points was significant for > >both P and K. > > > >Plant available magnesium (Mg) was different where it was > >significantly higher at 0.5 m from the fence (329 mg/Lsoil) than under > >the fences (281 mg/Lsoil), but at 2 m (312 mg/Lsoil) there was no > >significant difference from the other points. > > > >pH was significantly higher under the fences (7.65) than at 0.5 m > >(7.55) and at 2 m (7.51) from the fences. > > > >The Zinc (Zn) was analysed with DTPA method. It was 4 times higher > >under the fence (13.0 mg/Lsoil) than at 0.5 m or 2 m from the fence - > >3.0 and 2.8 mg/L soil, respectively. The latter values are consistent > >with "control" (unamended) Zn levels elsewhere on the research > >station. > > > >The organic matter content was significantly lower under the > >fences (4.6%) than at 0.5 m (5.8%) and 2 m (6.7%) from the fences. > >All of these figures tend to be higher than elsewhere on the research > >station managed under continuous, annual arable crops. > > > >The mosses were of the following species: > > > >Brachythecium sp. > >Plagiomnium cuspidatum > >Ceratodon purureus > >Fissidens taxifolius > >Bryum sp. > >Barbula unguiculata > > > >The mosses collected from underneath the fences are common in this > >area, but with one possible exception (from the genus Bryum) are not > >known to be indicative of metal contamination. However, our moss > >analyst is not a specialist in this area, so if you want to comment on > >these species, we'd be pleased to listen. > > > >The lesser levels of plant available P and K coupled with lower > >organic matter under the fence suggest a net loss of nutrients under > >the fence. Cattle graze preferentially under the fence, owing to the > >absence of fouling near the fence. The lack of nutrient return via > >defecation and urination would progressively remove nutrients under or > >near the fence. Whether these levels of soil macronutrient deficiency > >are sufficient to repress herbaceous growth is unknown. > > > >The 4-fold enhancement of soil Zn under the fence line is consistent > >with progressive leaching of Zn to the soil from the fence, which is > >now rapidly losing its galvanizing. However is 13.0 mg/L soil of Zinc > >in soil sufficient to create potential toxicity in herbaceous > >vegetation? Does this phenomenon occur with all aging galvanized > >fences (e.g. barbed? page wire?) or just with electric fences? Is a > >mossy ground cover directly under fenceline actually a blessing in > >disguise, reducing risk of shorting out? > > > >Work planned for this summer will follow up on these intriguing, > >preliminary results. If any of you happen to see anything under your > >own fences that might contribute to our understanding of these > >results, we'd be pleased to hear from you. > > > >Valgeir Bjarnason > > > >Valgeir Bjarnason > >Plant Agriculture > >University of Guelph > >Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 > >Canada > >Phone: +1-519-824-4120 Ext. 3397 > >Fax: +1-519-763-8933 > >e-mail: bjarnson@plant.uoguelph.ca > >Web site in Iceland: http://www.krokur.is/~holar/main.html > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 17:24:08 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15299 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:24:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA29624; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:13:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from connect1.reach.net (root@connect1.reach.net [204.50.58.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29397 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:11:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.50.58.213] (B27.reach.net [204.50.58.122]) by connect1.reach.net (8.9.1-wasp/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA28233 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:12:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:12:40 -0500 X-Sender: ghein@mail.reach.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: ghein@reach.net (Geoff Heinricks) Subject: Re: Cosmic Pipe (ETHERIC SEEING and HOW!) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id RAA29398 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 903 >Friends, > >The more you concentrate on your intellectual thinking, the less you can see >the ethers. How shall I explain what is happening to me when they occur: > >Firstly, of course, it is important that one knows that there may be such a >thing. You really cannot see a thing at all if you do not a) know what you >are looking for and b) how to look for it and c) where to look for d.) when >to look for it and e) with what members of your body. (there may be other >constraints, but those I have indicated suffice for the moment) > >etc. Regards Ferdinand > >Intergalactic Garage wrote: > >> >I wonder if this sense is where man broke with the past? Why we are >> >blinded to the ethers that are constantly flowing. How did this occur? >> >Was man able once to see these? Is it the ridicule and objectiveness of >> >politeness that creates the dillusion of total materialism? >> >> A Great Question, Well Phrased, Michael! Thank You, -Allan igg@igg.com You know, after reading Ferdinand's post, most newcomers like me would think about leaving the group. A little out there. But...I'm not so sure about that now. If you asked me earlier this Winter, I'd probably would be one of those who'd be logging off the group. Lately I've been reminding myself that what we see - more precisely the colours we think are real - are not there in the sense we think they are there. It's the light energy that gives them what we think is standard, unchanging, conclusive 'reality'. And as energy, there must be an array we just miss, or have trained ourselves to block out. For instance, I've sort of been collecting odds and ends, such as snippits of research that shows some birds of prey may be seeing infra red energies, and that's what they use to monitor vole runs. If seeing is just perceiving whatever energies you can perceive, or have bee taught to perceive, then it doesn't take much reflection to understand there are world and levels, if not dimensions we are missing. I remember reading in one of Eliot Coleman's books that he believes healthy plants tend to be pest free, and that sick or struggling ones give off signals opportunistic pests can sense, and they take advantage of it. Then last week, in the small agriculture section of a local paper, I saw the following study described. I meant to post it, but have been busy with other things. It sort of gives an answer to my questions about why a huge infestation of leaf-hoppers didn't touch my vines, though they were set into huge fields of dutch clover over-run with them. I daily walked the vines, squashed nymphs where I could find them on the young shoots, but knew it was hopeless, given the numbers around them. The vines must've called the parasitic wasps needed to keep themselves from harm. If only we could see these things without gas chromatography. > [Image] > > Plants Send SOS When Caterpillars Bite > > [Corn earworm on immature cotton boll.] By emitting chemical > distress signals, some corn, > cotton, and tobacco plants > can summon tiny parasitic > wasps to rescue them from > hungry caterpillars like the > tobacco budworm and corn > earworm. Breeding crop > varieties specifically for > their wasp-calling traits is > of keen interest to > scientists seeking ways to > reduce insecticide use. > > But until recently, > researchers believed that > plants use the same SOS > distress signal--no matter > what the attacker. [See > "Beneficials Are Money in > the Bank," Agricultural > Research, February 1993, pp. > 20-22.] Now, a team of > scientists has proven > otherwise by showing that > plants actually emit signals > specific to the caterpillar > pest attacking them. > > By releasing blends of 10 to > 12 different chemical > compounds called volatiles, > plants can quickly and > accurately communicate their > attacker's identity to > friendly parasitic wasps--a > finding that could improve > their use in integrated pest > management programs. > > This chemical tęte-ŕ-tęte > "is a much more > sophisticated system than we > ever suspected," says > University of Georgia > graduate student Consuelo > DeMoraes. She conducted the > study under the direction of > Agricultural Research > Service entomologist W. Joe > Lewis and his colleague, ARS > chemist James H. Tumlinson. > They reported the finding in > the June 1998 issue of > Nature. > > Before their work, "it had > not been shown > scientifically that plants > could send specific > information," says Lewis. He > is at ARS' Insect Biology > and Population Management > Research Laboratory in > Tifton, Georgia. > > Specificity is key to > survival of both the plant > and the wasps, he adds. For > example, Cardiochiles > nigriceps wasps can only > reproduce using tobacco > budworms as hosts for their > brood. In fact, the finicky > wasp will ignore plants > signaling attack by the > budworm's close relative, > the corn earworm--a pest > with its own natural > enemies. > > By releasing a large, > aromatic plume into the air, > plants not only help their > wasp allies quickly find > them, they also tell the > wasp who their attacker is. > This helps the wasp avoid > wasting precious energy. > > "Without a specific signal > from the plant, the > parasitoid might otherwise > spend all its time tracking > false cues," says Lewis. > "It's like finding a needle > in a haystack. It has to > find this one particular > host in order to reproduce." > > In field trials at Tifton, > scientists observed that C. > nigriceps wasps more often > flew to plants signaling > attack by tobacco budworms > than to those pestered by > corn earworms. In > experiments with tobacco, > tobacco budworm-infested > plants accounted for 164 out > of 198 total wasp visits. > > In separate experiments, the > scientists also monitored > plants whose leaves had been > chewed by the caterpillars > and subsequently removed. > This eliminated the > possibility of the wasps' > homing-in on chemical cues > in the caterpillars' saliva > or feces, rather than on the > plants' signals. As before, > C. nigriceps zeroed-in on > the tobacco budworm-damaged > plants. This happened 32 of > 48 times. > > The scientists also ran a > chemical analysis of the > plants' signals using a > special glass sleeve and gas > chromatography techniques. > This showed consistent > differences in > concentrations of volatile > compounds emanating from the > plants, depending on which > caterpillar pest had > attacked them. > > Lewis is also monitoring the > effects of too much nitrogen > on the signaling capacity of > cotton plants. > > "You can select varieties > for their inherent ability > to defend themselves," he > says. "But you also have to > know how to manage them so > that trait is > expressed."--By Jan Suszkiw, > Agricultural Research > Service Information Staff. > > W. Joe Lewis is at the > USDA-ARS Insect Biology and > Population Management > Research Laboratory, P.O. > Box 748, Tifton, GA 31793; > phone (912) 387-2348, fax > (912) 382-9467. > > "Managing Manure Nitrogen To > Curb Odors " was published > in the October 1998 issue of > Agricultural Research > magazine. Click here to see > this issue's table of > contents. > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 18:04:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16114 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:04:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05244; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:54:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from sand.global.net.uk (sand.global.net.uk [194.126.82.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04846 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:51:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcfs06a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.214.208] helo=cooksd.globalnet.co.uk) by sand.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10Ih0H-0002mX-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:54:05 +0000 Message-ID: <36DF0AF2.7095@globalnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 22:36:35 +0000 From: "Cook's Delight" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bread alergies, milk alergies etc. and the GE wheat plant References: <36D9DE1F.C822AADF@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 904 Have you all heard of Kamut(KAMOOT) growing now in Montana and exported world wide,and in Italy Triticum Spelta or Spelt real tasty wheat not so mucked about with that doesn't cause the same problems. Rex Tyler From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 18:09:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16185 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:09:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA06232; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:00:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06084 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:59:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.36] (pm3shep4-163-195.intrepid.net [209.190.163.195]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13377 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:01:54 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:31:57 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re:Tompkins interview Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 905 >>Great interview!!! Peter Tompkins is a very interesting man. I have read >>the Secret Life of Plants, and now want to read Secrets of the >>Soil......... but have been told that it is out of print. Did the new >>edition of that book really get out by the end of 1998??? If so, who is the >>publisher? >>regards... >>donaterra > >Hi Donaterra. >Hace been looking for these stwo books a long time, does anyone know where >I can get them????? > >Kosotie > >Ansvarspartiet. Swedens new party, Responsibility. >Healthcenter in Spain. Fruitarian org Justa Bananer. >Mailto:tyling@algonet.se >http://www.algonet.se/~tyling/index.htm >Tel/ph:++46-(0)40-461682 Secret Life of Plants available through amazon.com, Secrets of the Soil avail. through www.acresusa.com. Please order through links on http://www.igg.com/bdnow/books/tompkins THANKS! -AB From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 18:12:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16273 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:12:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA06630; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:03:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06425 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:01:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.36] (pm3shep4-163-195.intrepid.net [209.190.163.195]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13860 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:03:53 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:55:04 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: Ordering from ACRES via the Net was Re: Living Energies book Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id SAA06427 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 906 Once again, available through http://www.acresusa.com (the full ACRES book catalog is coming on line in the v. near future!!) For international orders from the ACRES Bookstore, or, for that matter, domestic orders, you can email your order to orders@acresusa.com . Figure on 10% of the cost of the books for domestic freight, 20% for international surface mail (air mail avaialable: ask for a quote via email (include your actual address!)) For international orders, charge cards make the most sense (we accept charge orders via email all the time at intergalactic and in all these years have never had a hint of someone's number being compromised by the email process!) If you live outside of the US and don't use a charge card, you must pay ACRES in funds drawn on US dollars on a US bank, ie a good postal money order. I hope this helps! -Allan PS This title is temporarily out of stock at ACRES, but you should place your order now to get shipped to when the next supply arrives. (ACRES carries 2 other titles by Mr Coates also.) >>Andy wrote: >> >>>However I have found out that the Living Energies book is currently out of >>>print and I think there are probably some stores that still have stock, if >>>anybody knows where or has a suggestion where to buy it I welcome it, >>>Thanks. >> >>I received my copy as a gift quite recently. It was special ordered through >>Borders and arrived in about 2 weeks. What a fantastic book! The closest >>thing I've seen yet to an engineering handbook for the new millenium... >> >>Living Energies: An Exposition of Concepts Related to the Theories of >>Viktor Schauberger >>by Callum Coats >>Gateway Books, Bath, UK >>ISBN 0-946551-97-9 >>312 pages, plenty of diagrams and photos >> >>-Guy > >Hi folks. I´m new on this list. Have plans to start a healthcenter in the >south of Spain with ecological forrestgardening and permaculture, based on >a fruitarian lifestyle. >Where can I buy this book? > >Nice thougts from Kosotie > >Ansvarspartiet. Swedens new party, Responsibility. >Healthcenter in Spain. Fruitarian org Justa Bananer. >Mailto:tyling@algonet.se >http://www.algonet.se/~tyling/index.htm >Tel/ph:++46-(0)40-461682 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 18:31:00 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16642 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:30:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA08966; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:20:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08583 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:18:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.36] (pm3shep4-163-195.intrepid.net [209.190.163.195]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17173 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:20:48 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:22:31 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: BD NOW: 'out there' Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 907 from Martha Wells I'd have to agree with Geoff, out there is true. But, I also can relate to some of the things that have been bantered about in this recent thread. Hauling water buckets to the buck pen, I walk a beaten path the goats have made. No surprises here, but when I crossed the path of a recent mole run, I received a distinctive electrical charge. I get the same thing when I'm milking one goat and the one in the stall next to me leans on me. Not unpleasant, but a 'disruption of self' somehow. Maybe it's because of this kind of talk that we're just a slight bit more open to what we're feeling. Ferdinand mentioned seeing with other eyes. In the grocery store the other day, I had my back turned to an aisle. I felt a very warm rush on the left side of my body. Like someone had folded a warm blanket on me, but when I turned around, nothing was going on. A stock clerk was running a scanner over the canned stuff behind me, but nothing else was happening. I don't know if that would cause warmth, but there definitely was a different air current than elsewhere in the aisle. I still haven't gotten to the point where I can 'see' the energy of my mesquite tree, telling me it's safe to plant outside now, however! (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 19:27:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA17651 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:27:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA17714; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:17:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA17156 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:14:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.129] ("port 2049"@[148.233.186.129]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F83001VQFMVX1@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:23:25 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 17:29:56 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: camelid manures and your interview In-reply-to: To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <117E2DF50DC4@agecon.uga.edu> <01BE62DC.E70452E0@FLYLO> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id TAA17311 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 908 Hi Allan: First of all let me thank you once more for the big and great work you do as moderator for this list and webmaster of the BD Now web site. Due to my schedulle, I am finding hard these days to keep up with the info coming in from BD-Now, so that it would be most helpful if you could consider putting up a WHOLE and comprehensible (inclusive) index of the pages you have developed for the BD-Now web site. I am thinking of a page that one could bookmark and refere to for updates and new material, probably the latter could be labeled with a "new" sign. With a page like that, I would not have to depend on reading every single message that appears on the list to know what else you have added to your web site. As it is now, it is rather diffult and sometimes imposible to navigate throught the whole web because some pages are only mentioned on the list. Hope this helps friend. Cheers. >Let me try this one more time (and not directed to any particular poster): >this wasn't initally about 'thank you,' but really observing how little >discussion follows most references to web pages. However, I have to admit >that I don't understand this rather common phrase "It never occured to me >to give feedback to a web page creator," given that the creator is in this >rather small virtual community and we 'all' speak daily. Which brings back >my other statement: if can't co-evolve, we can't evolve at all. > >IMHO opinion, there has never been a tool as powerful for co-evolution at >the 'net, but all that gets lost when users start mistaking it for >television with a keyboard remote control. > >-Allan Balliett >moderator >BD Now! > Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 19:45:37 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA17995 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:45:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA20671; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:35:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA20176 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:32:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.36] (pm3shep4-163-195.intrepid.net [209.190.163.195]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA32593 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:34:20 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:32:18 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: UPDATE and 'correction': Re:President of Whole Foods Market states that he's not against carrying GMO] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id TAA20180 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 909 As any of you who have ever been interviewed by the media, the final story may not always accurately represent what was said at a meeting. Ironically, our company president, Chris Hitt, is being represented, along with Whole Foods Market, as caving into and endorsing genetic engineering of food. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the occasion from which the quotes were cherrypicked was a Food Marketing Institute seminar that was organized for the food industry to address the importance of getting mandatory labeling of genetically engineered ingredients. We're realists: all stores around the country, no matter what size and no matter if conventional or natural foods oriented, currently sells foods that have genetically engineered ingredients. However, without labeling, none of us know which foods do contain them. That's why we are vehement that consumers have the right to know which foods are, so they can make their own personal purchasing choices. The following are documents that will give you the real story about Whole Foods Market's stance on genetic engineering of food. They are available on our website (www.wholefoods.com) as is the Mothers for Natural Law's Million Signature information and an interactive form so visitors to the website can sign up as a supporter of mandatory labeling. Last time I talked with Mothers for Natural Law, a couple weeks ago, they only had about 330,000 signatures out of the million they are seeking. All of us need to work together to get more people to understand the concerns about genetic engineering and get them to sign the petition. We need to have our Congresspeople in Washington see that US citizens are just as concerned as European citizens. Margaret Wittenberg VP, Governmental & Public Affairs Whole Foods Market, Inc. THIS IS THE STATEMENT FROM OUR PRESIDENT CHRIS HITT AS A RESPONSE TO THE MISREPRESENTATION OF HIS COMMENTS ABOUT GENETIC ENGINEERING AT A CONFERENCE. IT IS ON OUR WEBSITE AND HOW WE RESPOND TO CONSUMERS WHO ASK: Whole Foods Market's position regarding genetic engineering has remained unchanged since we first alerted our consumers in 1992 about the potential risks of this new technology. While its applications to medicine may or may not prove to be beneficial, when it comes to our food supply, we are very concerned about the disruptive effect genetic engineering may have on our environment. We are actively engaged in efforts to establish mandatory labeling of foods with genetically modified ingredients. Labeling will enable consumers to avoid products produced by means that may be contradictory to religious, spiritual, and/or ethical beliefs. Consumers simply have the right to choose for themselves between genetically engineered and non-genetically engineered products. TEXT OF OUR CONSUMER BROCHURE ABOUT GENETIC ENGINEERING Genetically Engineered Food: your right to know The recent birth of Dolly, the cloned sheep, shocked most Americans into an awareness of genetic engineering. Little did we know that other products of genetic engineering have been silently making their way onto our dinner tables throughout the past 20 years. Meanwhile, consumers in the majority of European countries are not only aware of genetic engineering but consider it a serious health hazard. What is genetic engineering and how does it affect the American consumer? Read on. What is genetic engineering? Genetic engineering is a modern form of biotechnology broad term describing processes such as cross-breeding, plant hybridization and fermentation. While biotechnology has been used by humans for thousands of years, genetic engineering is a relatively new and rapidly developing technology that is raising public concern. Genetic engineering focuses on the manipulation (blocking, adding, or scrambling) of the genetic material inside the cells of living organisms to block or add desired traits. Why use genetic engineering? Proponents of genetic engineering claim many potential benefits of this new technology. Current medical applications include genetically engineered human insulin, human growth hormone, gene probes to detect genetic diseases, Hepatitis B vaccine, monoclonal antibodies to diagnose infections, and tissue plasminogen activator to dissolve blood clots. Some of the more controversial applications of genetic engineering are in the area of food production. What are the potential risks? Opponents of genetic engineering raise concerns about the safety and ethics of creating novel organisms as well as the impact that genetic engineering will have on the environment. Specific concerns include: lack of long-term studies on food safety lack of long-term studies on environmental impact diminished opportunity for organic /sustainable agriculture potential risk of rendering Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt), a natural biological pesticide, useless due to widespread use of Bt-engineered crops potential life-threatening danger for individuals with food allergies or sensitivities who might unknowingly ingest altered foods to which they are allergic, sensitive, or intolerant new genetic structure of foods might result in new allergens toxicity-levels of naturally occurring food toxins might inadvertently be altered cruelty to animals unacceptability of creating novel organisms that would not occur through traditional means of reproduction (crossing plants and animals or unrelated species of animals) environmental damage due to cross pollination and disturbed ecosystems pesticide tolerance herbicide tolerance ethical & spiritual concerns What food products have been or are being developed with genetic engineering? milk and other dairy products from cows administered rBGH, a genetically engineered growth hormone soybean, tomato, corn, & canola plants that withstand herbicide application corn, tomatoes, & potatoes with built-in pesticides potatoes, tomatoes, cantaloupe, squash, cucumbers, corn, canola, soybeans, & grapes manipulated to resist plant viruses peppers and tomatoes engineered to resist plant fungi tomatoes, peas, peppers & tropical fruits manipulated to extend shelf-life and improve processing quality corn, sunflowers, & soybeans engineered to contain altered levels of nutrients. canola & peanuts with altered lipid profiles tomatoes and fruits with skins altered to endure freezing coffee beans with altered caffeine content potatoes that absorb less oil when fried corn and peas engineered for a prolonged shelf-life various enzymes (proteins that speed up biological processes) used to make beer, wine, fruit juice, sugar, oil, baked goods, and more genetically engineered rennet (chymosin) for making cheese Is there any way to know if our food has been genetically engineered? Not unless a labeling system is adopted. Currently, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not require labeling of genetically engineered foods except when: the new genetically engineered food is nutritionally different from non-genetically engineered versions or; the characteristics of the food differ significantly from what is normally expected (e.g., the introduction of allergens or toxins). Why are labels important? With labeling, public health officials will be able to trace the cause and course of any unforeseen public health problem caused by the introduction of genetically altered foods (such as the outbreak of Eosinophilia Myalgia Syndrome linked with a genetically engineered brand of amino acid supplement L-tryptophan in 1989). Labeling of genetically engineered foods will enable consumers to avoid products produced in manners contradictory to religious, spiritual, and/or ethical beliefs. Consumers simply have the right to choose for themselves between genetically engineered and non-genetically engineered products. What is Whole Foods Market doing about genetically engineered foods? Whole Foods Market is currently surveying manufacturers to assess the genetically engineered status of products we carry. This survey will allow us to: gauge the prevalence of genetically engineered products on the market alert manufacturers of the impending onslaught of genetically engineered ingredients encourage manufacturers and suppliers to find non-genetically engineered sources to satisfy consumer demand Typically responses have fallen into three general categories. 1.Manufacturers who have a strict policy against genetically engineered ingredients and understand the complexities of finding ingredients that are verifiably free from genetic engineering. 2.Manufacturers who are currently against genetically engineered foods, but are not certain they can now or in the future verify that products are free from genetically engineered ingredients. 3.Manufacturers who know little or nothing about genetic engineering and do not have any idea if, when, or how genetically engineered ingredients will affect their products. Avoiding genetically engineered ingredients has been a difficult task for some manufacturers and will become more difficult as more products hit the market unlabeled. Consider, for example, the many ingredients derived from soybeans found in several common products: soy sauce, tamari, soy milk, soy protein isolate, lecithin, soy oil, margarine, vitamin E, tofu, tempeh, soy granules, texturized vegetable protein (TVP) and baby formula. Most suppliers obtain their products off the commodity market which pulls from a large and variable pool of producers and farmers. This makes the segregation of genetically engineered and non-genetically engineered products complex and hard to track. Thus, depending on the manufacturer, any product you buy that contains any of these ingredients may or may not be of a genetically engineered source. What can you do? Plenty! Let the FDA and your favorite manufacturers know how you feel about the genetic engineering of our food supply. Tell them that the only way you can make an informed choice whether or not to purchase foods with genetically modified ingredients is if these foods are labeled accordingly. And, ask the FDA to support the National Organic Standard BoardĽs recommendation to prohibit genetically engineered organisms and their derivatives from organic production and handling systems. Send short, to the point, originally drafted letters (no form letters) to: Dr. Michael Friedman Lead Deputy Commissioner Food and Drug Administration 5600 Fishers Lane, Room 1471 Rockville, MD 20857 Write or call your Congressperson and your state's Food and Drug Division, too. Our tax dollars fund both organizations and it's important that those who represent us in government know how we want our money spent. To contact manufacturers, look for their complete address printed on the product packaging. Jason Boehk wrote: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [earthsave-boston] President of Whole Foods Market states that >he's not against carrying GMO > Date: 3 Mar 99 22:36:55 EST > From: Norio Kushi > Reply-To: earthsave-boston@egroups.com > To: , , >, > , , > , , > , , , > , > CC: , , , > , , > , , , > , , , > , , > , , , > , , > > Greetings friends: > > The following is two paragraphs of an article which is in the current >issue of > the trade magazine, Natural Foods Merchandiser. Chris Hitt is the president > of Austin, TX based Whole Foods MArket. They also own, Bread & Circus, Mrs > Gooches, Wellspring and Fresh Fields. > > Norio > > ************************************************************************** > > (Chris) Hitt's main point in a speech during a Food Marketing Institute > executive conference in Florida was that all genetically modified foods >should > be labeled as such. He then added that once the labels are in place, he > thinks GMOs could have a place at Whole Foods. > > "The thing I said is that if people think we'd be unalterably opposed to > genetically modified foods, they'd be wrong," he said in an interview >with the > Natural Foods Merchandiser. > > ************************************************************************** > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/earthsave-boston > Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Margaret Wittenberg Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 19:45:38 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18000 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:45:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA20772; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:35:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA20185 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:32:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.36] (pm3shep4-163-195.intrepid.net [209.190.163.195]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA32630 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:34:28 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <117E2DF50DC4@agecon.uga.edu> <01BE62DC.E70452E0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:35:22 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: camelid manures and your interview Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 910 Dear Guillermo - So good to know that you are alive and apparently well!! Such a project has been on my desk for some months and will be implemented when at the right level. (It's scarey, I logged onto BD Now! the other day and found a splash page which is about three generations behind the designs I've been working on here. Ouch! :-) Anyway, to be honest with you, a great many of the pages ARE accessible through http: www.igg.com/bdnow/menu.html Thanks for writing. I've missed you! -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com >Hi Allan: > > >First of all let me thank you once more for the big and great work you do >as moderator for this list and webmaster of the BD Now web site. > >Due to my schedulle, I am finding hard these days to keep up with the info >coming in from BD-Now, so that it would be most helpful if you could >consider putting up a WHOLE and comprehensible (inclusive) index of the >pages you have developed for the BD-Now web site. I am thinking of a page >that one could bookmark and refere to for updates and new material, >probably the latter could be labeled with a "new" sign. With a page like >that, I would not have to depend on reading every single message that >appears on the list to know what else you have added to your web site. >As it is now, it is rather diffult and sometimes imposible to navigate >throught the whole web because some pages are only mentioned on the list. > >Hope this helps friend. Cheers. > > >>Let me try this one more time (and not directed to any particular poster): >>this wasn't initally about 'thank you,' but really observing how little >>discussion follows most references to web pages. However, I have to admit >>that I don't understand this rather common phrase "It never occured to me >>to give feedback to a web page creator," given that the creator is in this >>rather small virtual community and we 'all' speak daily. Which brings back >>my other statement: if can't co-evolve, we can't evolve at all. >> >>IMHO opinion, there has never been a tool as powerful for co-evolution at >>the 'net, but all that gets lost when users start mistaking it for >>television with a keyboard remote control. >> >>-Allan Balliett >>moderator >>BD Now! >> > >Guillermo Romero I. >Comala, Colima, MEXICO > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 19:53:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18136 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:53:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA22292; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:43:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21896 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:41:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.84]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:44:54 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:44:22 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Ordering from ACRES via the Net was Re: Living Energies book Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 911 Allan why are you sending people to ACRES instead of to Amazon via your site? They have Living Energies in print right now and on it's way to my door along with several others. In case you need reminding folks can get to Amazon via Bd-Now by going to: (http://www.igg.com/bdnow/books/booksale.html) and click on search Amazon.com link! JS From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 20:02:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA18217 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:02:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA23879; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:52:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from node21.frontiernet.net (node21.frontiernet.net [209.130.129.196]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23663 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:51:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (as5200-1-18.vir.wi.frontiernet.net [209.130.160.160]) by node21.frontiernet.net (8.8.8a/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA67582 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:53:35 -0500 From: "Ocooch Mtn. Acres / Ken & Ruth Rupp" To: Subject: RE: Things are not always what they seem (Author unknown) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:46:22 -0600 Message-ID: <002801be66a1$972f9b80$93a082d1@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36DD9189.85DE394B@direct.ca> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 912 Great story. Thanks. RGR -----Original Message----- From: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org [mailto:owner-bdnow@envirolink.org] On Behalf Of Ferdinand Vondruska Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 1:46 PM To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: OFF: Things are not always what they seem (Author unknown) Things aren't always what they seem. Two traveling angels stopped to spend the night in the home of a wealthy family. The family was rude and refused to let the angels stay in the mansion's guest room. Instead the angels were given a space in the cold basement. As they made their bed on the hard floor, the older angel saw a hole in the wall and repaired it. When the younger angel asked why, the older angel replied..."Things aren't always what they seem". The next night the pair came to rest at the house of a very poor, but very hospitable farmer and his wife. After sharing what little food they had, the couple let the angels sleep in their bed where they could have a good night's rest. When the sun came up the next morning, the angels found the farmer and his wife in tears. Their only cow, whose milk had been their sole income, lay dead in the field. The younger angel was infuriated and asked the older angel "how could you have let this happen!? The first man had everything, yet you helped him" she accused. "The second family had little but was willing to share everything, and you let their cow die." "Things aren't always what they seem," the older angel replied. When we stayed in the basement of the mansion, I noticed there was gold stored in that hole in the wall. Since the owner was so obsessed with reed and unwilling to share his good fortune, I sealed the wall so he wouldn't find it. Then last night as we slept in the farmer's bed, the angel of death came for his wife. I gave her the cow instead. Things aren't always what they seem." Sometimes this is exactly what happens when things don't turn out the way they should. If you have faith in God, just trust that every outcome is always to your advantage. You might not realize it until much later. Regards Ferdinand -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 20:07:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA18318 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:07:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA24917; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:58:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24804 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:58:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.36] (pm3shep4-163-195.intrepid.net [209.190.163.195]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05419 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:00:19 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:02:00 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: OFF: Ordering from ACRES via the Net was Re: Living Energies book Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 913 >Allan why are you sending people to ACRES instead of to Amazon via your >site? They have Living Energies in print right now and on it's way to my >door along with several others. > >In case you need reminding folks can get to Amazon via Bd-Now by going to: >(http://www.igg.com/bdnow/books/booksale.html) and click on search >Amazon.com link! > >JS Why, thanks, Jane! And I should point out that when people order books from Amazon by going through http://www.igg.com/bdnow/books/booksale.html , BD Now! receives a small kickback from the sale. This doesn't cost the buyer ANYTHING, but goes towards defraying the expense of operating BD Now! Just by way of explanation, I didn't find any books IN PRINT on Amazon a week ago when I checked for Callum's titles. Secrets of the Soil is still not there, right? -Allan =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 20:32:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA18771 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:32:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA29443; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:23:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28787 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:19:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.84]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:22:45 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:22:12 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: Ordering from Amazon via BDNow (was "Ordering from ACRES via the Net was Re: Living Energies book") Message-ID: <61CA2826DA0E6A638525672B000746D5.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 914 <> Indeed it is! As are some others... And you're welcome, I'm sure! JS ----------------------- The Secret Life of Plants ~ Usually ships in 24 hours Peter Tompkins, Christopher O. Bird / Paperback / Published 1989 Our Price: $13.60 ~ You Save: $3.40 (20%) Secrets of the Great Pyramid ~ Usually ships in 2-3 days Peter Tompkins, Livio Catullo Stecchini / Hardcover / Published 1997 Value Priced at: $16.99 Secrets of the Soil : New Age Solutions for Restoring Our Planet ~ Usually ships in 2-3 days Peter Tompkins, Christopher Bird / Paperback / Published 1998 Our Price: $15.96 ~ You Save: $3.99 (20%) The Secret Life of Nature : Living in Harmony With the Hidden World of Nature Spirits from Fairies to Quarks Peter Tompkins / Hardcover / Published 1997 (Publisher Out Of Stock) El Misterio De Las Piramides Mexicanas/Mysteries of the Mexican Pyramids Peter Tompkins From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 21:11:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA19329 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:11:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA07935; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:01:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07359 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:58:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.36] (pm3shep4-163-191.intrepid.net [209.190.163.191]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18532 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:00:43 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <61CA2826DA0E6A638525672B000746D5.0000000000000000@webcity> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:02:28 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: OFF: Ordering from Amazon via BDNow (was "Ordering from ACRES via the Net was Re: Living Energies book") Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 915 The BD Now! Link to Secrets of the Soil through Amazon.com is: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890693243/thebiodynamfarmiA/ The book is available there for less than $16 (a paperback 2nd edition). A small portion of the procedes of sales through the above URL revert to BD Now! If you are at all interested in subtle energies in agriculture, or in one of the best nuts-and-bolts expositions of applied biodynamics, then you really need to have a copy of this book! Thanks -Allan Balliett moderator, BD NOW! igg@igg.com > >Indeed it is! As are some others... >And you're welcome, I'm sure! >JS >----------------------- >The Secret Life of Plants ~ Usually ships in 24 hours > >Peter Tompkins, Christopher O. Bird / Paperback / Published 1989 >Our Price: $13.60 ~ You Save: $3.40 (20%) > >Secrets of the Great Pyramid ~ Usually ships in 2-3 days >Peter Tompkins, Livio Catullo Stecchini / Hardcover / Published 1997 >Value Priced at: $16.99 > >Secrets of the Soil : New Age Solutions for Restoring Our Planet ~ Usually >ships in 2-3 days >Peter Tompkins, Christopher Bird / Paperback / Published 1998 >Our Price: $15.96 ~ You Save: $3.99 (20%) > >The Secret Life of Nature : Living in Harmony With the Hidden World of >Nature Spirits from Fairies to Quarks >Peter Tompkins / Hardcover / Published 1997 >(Publisher Out Of Stock) > >El Misterio De Las Piramides Mexicanas/Mysteries of the Mexican Pyramids >Peter Tompkins From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 21:53:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA20008 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:53:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA16835; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:42:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16381 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:40:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10IkZn-0006DQ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:43:00 -0800 Message-ID: <36DF446F.8A26A907@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 18:41:51 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Things are not always what they seem (Author unknown) References: <002801be66a1$972f9b80$93a082d1@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 916 Dear Ruth & Ken, Hope I did not shock you too much with my contribution re; Greg Willis. Well, we have nuts among us, I can tell you. Hope all is well in the Maple Leaf Grove. Regards Ferdinand Ocooch Mtn. Acres / Ken & Ruth Rupp wrote: > Great story. Thanks. RGR > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org [mailto:owner-bdnow@envirolink.org] On > Behalf Of Ferdinand Vondruska > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 1:46 PM > To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics > Subject: OFF: Things are not always what they seem (Author unknown) > > Things aren't always what they seem. Two traveling angels stopped to > spend the night in the home of a wealthy family. The family was rude > and refused to let the angels stay in the mansion's guest room. > Instead > the angels were given a space in the cold basement. As they made > their bed on the hard floor, the older angel saw a hole in the wall and > > repaired it. When the younger angel asked why, the older angel > replied..."Things aren't always what they seem". > > The next night the pair came to rest at the house of a very poor, but > very hospitable farmer and his wife. After sharing what little food > they > had, the couple let the angels sleep in their bed where they could > have a good night's rest. When the sun came up the next morning, the > angels > found the farmer and his wife in tears. Their only cow, whose milk had > been > their sole income, lay dead in the field. > > The younger angel was infuriated and asked the older angel "how could > you have let this happen!? The first man had everything, yet you helped > > him" she accused. "The second family had little but was willing to > share everything, and you let their cow die." "Things aren't always > what > they seem," the older angel replied. > > When we stayed in the basement of the mansion, I noticed there was > gold stored in that hole in the wall. Since the owner was so obsessed > with reed and unwilling to share his good fortune, I sealed the wall so > he > wouldn't find it. > > Then last night as we slept in the farmer's bed, the angel of death > came for his wife. I gave her the cow instead. Things aren't always > what > they seem." Sometimes this is exactly what happens when things don't > turn > out the way they should. If you have faith in God, just trust that > every > outcome is always to your advantage. You might not realize it until > much > later. > > Regards Ferdinand > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > FRIENDS: > To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows > (feedlots, AI, hormones, > excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage > etc.), 1999 is: > MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, > references, statistics > or your personal observations and stories related to cows. > I thank you for your help. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 21:55:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA20033 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:55:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA17413; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:45:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16956 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:43:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10IkcO-0005tg-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:45:40 -0800 Message-ID: <36DF4510.B5DDD83@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 18:44:32 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bread alergies, milk alergies etc. and the GE wheat plant References: <36D9DE1F.C822AADF@direct.ca> <36DF0AF2.7095@globalnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 917 Yes, we eat a lot of it. Hope, it will not fall prey to the 'well meaning people' soon and made more palatable. Regards Ferdinand Cook's Delight wrote: > Have you all heard of Kamut(KAMOOT) growing now in Montana and exported > world wide,and in Italy Triticum Spelta or Spelt real tasty wheat > not so mucked about with that doesn't cause the same problems. > > Rex Tyler -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 22:13:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20326 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:13:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA20730; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:03:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20007 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:00:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0206.direct.ca ([204.244.83.22] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Ikse-0007bW-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:02:28 -0800 Message-ID: <36DF48FF.9BFD4455@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 19:01:19 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: BD NOW: 'out there' References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 918 Dear Martha, When I come close to certain gadgetry (also my computer etc.) if feel (at times) heat on my skin. Scanners, no doubt, do cause certain irritations. Magnets, cellular phones, X-ray machines as well. And, re: X-ray machines, the following. When I was a kid, it was common practice to X-ray your feet in order to see whether your shoes would fit. Sales clerks by the dozens got (years later) cancer. Mankind is: bloed (darn stupid.....). My father would not permit me to wear a watch with radiating arms and a radiating face. He said it would cause cancer. Well, it caused brittle bones and so forth. But what is more important is this: we can develop a feeling for these things and I am sure you have it. You can develop it consciously so that you can TURN IT ON at will. In the garden, with the goats, with people, but (like playing the piano) it needs a bit of training. Of course it is easier to learn the piano because we have a clear picture of how to do it. On the other hand, learning HOW TO SEE is somewhat more exciting because you do not need all these contraptions AND you can become a master without paying anybody for the lessons. Xray emissions, hydro radiation (EMF effects), plant and animal radiation (or whatever it is called), can be seen without a lot of technical help. This all can be learned and is not so far off. I maintain that IF we do not do it soonest, we will become more and more dependent on the chemical- bioengineering- materialistic industry. Why? The more people can see etherically, the more it has to be studied and accepted and then it will become a daily occurrence that can not be denied or ridiculed. Like seeing with your eyes. And then we can say: GE does not only damage us and the plant and the animals but it screws up the layers beyond it. A mouth full, I know. Regards Ferdinand Intergalactic Garage wrote: > from Martha Wells > > I'd have to agree with Geoff, out there is true. But, I also can relate to > some of the things that have been bantered about in this recent thread. > Hauling water buckets to the buck pen, I walk a beaten path the goats have > made. No surprises here, but when I crossed the path of a recent mole run, > I received a distinctive electrical charge. > I get the same thing when I'm milking one goat and the one in the stall > next to me leans on me. Not unpleasant, but a 'disruption of self' somehow. > Maybe it's because of this kind of talk that we're just a slight bit more > open to what we're feeling. > Ferdinand mentioned seeing with other eyes. In the grocery store the other > day, I had my back turned to an aisle. I felt a very warm rush on the left > side of my body. Like someone had folded a warm blanket on me, but when I > turned around, nothing was going on. A stock clerk was running a scanner > over the canned stuff behind me, but nothing else was happening. I don't > know if that would cause warmth, but there definitely was a different air > current than elsewhere in the aisle. > I still haven't gotten to the point where I can 'see' the energy of my > mesquite tree, telling me it's safe to plant outside now, however! > > (martha) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Thu Mar 4 22:58:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20888 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:58:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA27737; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:47:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27353 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:46:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.84]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:48:58 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:48:24 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: OFF: UPDATE and 'correction': Re:President of Whole Foods Market states that he's not against carrying GMO] Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 919 Excuse me folks but am I just cranky, or is this like throwing a bone with rotten flecks of meat still attached to an angry dog? WHy do I have this creepy feeling that in the last 10 years or more health food stores are just another form of food mill churning out more junk processed food with little value mixed in with some things that may have value just to appeal to "market share"? Why do I feel like labeling laws are a waste of money like bandaids on infected untreated wounds which just make lawyers or doctors rich and don't change a darn thing about how food is produced, about how consumers are best informed and educated as to what even is healthy food. Why do I feel that it is a wasted effort to demand that our law bodies waste time and money debating a label law when meanwhile no one even knows how to eat or what is a truly healthful way to eat. I talk to folks who take workshops and pay lots of money for "insprirational" speakers to tell them what to do and so they decide to go on a raw foods diet, but see nothing wrong with buying those "raw" vegetables already cut up and "washed" for them and put into a cellaphane bag so they can drop them in a bowl and dose it with flax seed oil and lemon and think they're doing themselves a favor? Am I missing something here? Did I miss something with this quote about Chris Hitt of Whole foods? Did he or did he not say that IF foods that are genetically labeled as such, then they WILL find a place in whole foods markets? This labeling thing is diversionary tactics if you ask me! Just where is this correction? I recently heard a small part of an Angela Davis speech given at a university in upstate NY titled "The Prison Industrial Complex". When I think about how uninformed, ill informed, uneducated, confused and under researched the health professions and most folks are about food, farming and nutrition it really gets to me! Davis talked about how the cutbacks in education just in NYState ALONE were practically equal to the "billions", yes B Billions of increased funds given to the prison system here!! No wonder people don't know anything about food! Labels? JS From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 01:49:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA22881 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:49:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA18292; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:38:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA18204 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:37:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0207.direct.ca ([204.244.83.23] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10IoGY-0005Kh-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:39:23 -0800 Message-ID: <36DF7BD0.AC79544@direct.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 22:38:08 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Things are not always what they seem (Author unknown) References: <002801be66a1$972f9b80$93a082d1@oemcomputer> <36DF446F.8A26A907@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 920 And with that nut I include myself of course! Ferdinand Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Dear Ruth & Ken, > > Hope I did not shock you too much with my contribution re; Greg Willis. Well, we > have nuts among us, I can tell you. Hope all is well in the Maple Leaf Grove. > Regards Ferdinand > > Ocooch Mtn. Acres / Ken & Ruth Rupp wrote: > > > Great story. Thanks. RGR > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org [mailto:owner-bdnow@envirolink.org] On > > Behalf Of Ferdinand Vondruska > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 1:46 PM > > To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics > > Subject: OFF: Things are not always what they seem (Author unknown) > > > > Things aren't always what they seem. Two traveling angels stopped to > > spend the night in the home of a wealthy family. The family was rude > > and refused to let the angels stay in the mansion's guest room. > > Instead > > the angels were given a space in the cold basement. As they made > > their bed on the hard floor, the older angel saw a hole in the wall and > > > > repaired it. When the younger angel asked why, the older angel > > replied..."Things aren't always what they seem". > > > > The next night the pair came to rest at the house of a very poor, but > > very hospitable farmer and his wife. After sharing what little food > > they > > had, the couple let the angels sleep in their bed where they could > > have a good night's rest. When the sun came up the next morning, the > > angels > > found the farmer and his wife in tears. Their only cow, whose milk had > > been > > their sole income, lay dead in the field. > > > > The younger angel was infuriated and asked the older angel "how could > > you have let this happen!? The first man had everything, yet you helped > > > > him" she accused. "The second family had little but was willing to > > share everything, and you let their cow die." "Things aren't always > > what > > they seem," the older angel replied. > > > > When we stayed in the basement of the mansion, I noticed there was > > gold stored in that hole in the wall. Since the owner was so obsessed > > with reed and unwilling to share his good fortune, I sealed the wall so > > he > > wouldn't find it. > > > > Then last night as we slept in the farmer's bed, the angel of death > > came for his wife. I gave her the cow instead. Things aren't always > > what > > they seem." Sometimes this is exactly what happens when things don't > > turn > > out the way they should. If you have faith in God, just trust that > > every > > outcome is always to your advantage. You might not realize it until > > much > > later. > > > > Regards Ferdinand > > -- > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------- > > > > FRIENDS: > > To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows > > (feedlots, AI, hormones, > > excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage > > etc.), 1999 is: > > MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, > > references, statistics > > or your personal observations and stories related to cows. > > I thank you for your help. > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > FRIENDS: > To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows > (feedlots, AI, hormones, > excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), > 1999 is: > MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, > statistics > or your personal observations and stories related to cows. > I thank you for your help. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 08:25:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA25691 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:25:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA13704; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:14:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from node21.frontiernet.net (node21.frontiernet.net [209.130.129.196]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA13598 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:13:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (as5200-1-36.vir.wi.frontiernet.net [209.130.160.178]) by node21.frontiernet.net (8.8.8a/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA341262 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:15:46 -0500 From: "Ocooch Mtn. Acres / Ken & Ruth Rupp" To: Subject: Kindred Spirits Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:08:32 -0600 Message-ID: <000601be6709$453636a0$9fa082d1@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36DF7BD0.AC79544@direct.ca> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 921 > Dear Ruth & Ken, > > Hope I did not shock you too much with my contribution re; Greg Willis. Well, we * have nuts among us, I can tell you. Hope all is well in the Maple Leaf Grove. * * Regards Ferdinand And with that nut I include myself of course! Ferdinand Ferdinand - Thanks for your concern. I was not directing my "Be Nice" message to any particular person and definitely not to you - I have heard good things about you from another member of the list server with whom I am friends. It is just that it seems in the USA those of us who say we are "kindred spirits" in the organic and bio-dynamic movements are not as nice to each other as we should be. This is an observation I have made over the last 10 years of how things are between some of the organic and bio-dynamic people here in southwestern Wisconsin. When I read some of the messages that came through in my first 24 hours of subscribing to this list server, I was concerned that the members of this list server were also of the personality to be nasty to each other! Then after I sent out my "be nice" message and the response from one person was the message about the evils of politeness, I was further concerned about what kind of people were subscribers to the BDNOW list server! However I am getting lots of good information from the BDNOW server and will continue to be part of it. I just have difficulty understanding why the organic and bio-dynamic culture here in the USA is so different from what I have experienced in Europe. >From the Ocooch Mountains & Kickapoo River Valley of southwestern Wisconsin with Love, Ruth ruthrupp@mwt.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 08:38:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA25847 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:38:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA14953; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:29:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from node21.frontiernet.net (node21.frontiernet.net [209.130.129.196]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14884 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:28:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (as5200-1-4.vir.wi.frontiernet.net [209.130.160.146]) by node21.frontiernet.net (8.8.8a/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA314400; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:30:50 -0500 From: "Ocooch Mtn. Acres / Ken & Ruth Rupp" To: Cc: "Demeter- Anne Mendenhall" Subject: Bio-Dynamic conference at the Goetheanum in Dornach, Switzerland Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:23:36 -0600 Message-ID: <001301be670b$5feb2620$9fa082d1@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 922 Note: Ruth Gerber Rupp, OCIA organic certified (currently making the transition to become Demeter bio-dynamic certified) cash crop farmer in Southwest Wisconsin, wrote this report. Last year in a search for her roots in Switzerland, Ruth discovered that she has a second cousin, Reto Ingold, who lives in Dornach, Switzerland where Steiner lived and worked during the last years of his life. Reto is a bio-dynamic farmer, has a doctorate degree in agriculture, has published books about his work on bio-dynamic farms in Switzerland, and does certification inspection work throughout Europe for Demeter. Reto invited Ruth to return to Switzerland for the annual Bio-Dynamic Agriculture Conference that is held at Rudoph Steiner's Goetheanum in Dornach. Although somewhat skeptical about bio-dynamic farming, Ruth accepted her cousin's invitation and attended the February 1999 conference. She came home from the conference a believer in bio-dynamic agriculture. Here is a summary of her experience. BIODYNAMIC AGRICULTURE CONFERENCE, Dornach, Switzerland, February 2-6, 1999 A pre-conference excursion was offered to anyone who arrived to Dornach a day early. We drove a couple hours through the mountains south of Dornach to a place called L'Aubier, an agri-tourism business that is managed by associative economic principles. The business includes a bio-dynamic dairy farm, dairy products processing plant, hotel, restraurant, and retail store. The tour of this business was the beginning of the change in my perception of bio-dynamic agriculture. L'Aubier has a 5-star Swiss hospitality industry rating and is a highly profitable agriculture business. The rest of the week further improved my opinion of bio-dynamic agriculture as I observed about 1000 European bio-dynamic farmers who attended the conference - farmers who are spiritual, kind, caring, loving, intelligent, socially skilled, professionally dressed/groomed, and owners some of the nicest and most successful family farms in Europe. Conference attendees were surrounded by the beauty of Steiner's style of architecture and artwork, combined with an educational and culturally stimulating conference program. The conference started each morning with a reading from one of Steiner's books after which we listened to speakers who presented their bio-dynamic agriculture research work. Each day we were also entertained with a demonstration of one of the cultural arts, eurythmia, which is taught at Steiner's school at the Goetheanum in Dornach. The research presented at the conference focused on development of new varieties of plants. The message was that altering plants is good if done properly through plant breeding and not through genetic engineering. I will very briefly summarize some of the research that was presented. A lady who works at the Biodynamic Center for Plant Technology in Europe spoke on "Breeding for the Health and Development of Vegetables and Fruit". She encouraged farmers to look at the total plant when doing breeding research and to help the plant find its ego so man and plant can compliment each other. She reminded us of some of the history of plant breeding such as the fact that carrots used to be violet in color; that beets, celery, and fennel all were developed in the 19th century; that rye and oats were weeds prior being breed into useful grains in the 19th century. A professor from one the universities in Switzerland presented her exciting color chromatography research that showed the superior quality of bio-dynamically grown foods. One Swiss farmer gave a presentation on the benefits of plant breeding and the dangers of genetic engineering. He pointed out that the reason genetic engineering is happening in the world is that farmers are not patient enough to wait for new varieties of plants to be developed through the natural plant breeding process. It takes 15 years of 200 cross-breedings per year to develop a new plant variety. Another Swiss farmer spoke about his experiences with plant breeding of wheat. Through seed saving and plant selection he has accomplished plant breeding that resulted in a new variety of wheat that produces increased yields, improved baking qualities, and less fungi problems. When doing quality assessment of new wheat varieties he considers not only how the wheat grows in his fields, but also how well it performs throughout the entire process of making the wheat into flour and then bread. He admitted that when he first started using bio-dynamic methods on his farm he often asked himself, "Does any of this really make sense?!", but he has observed that using bio-dynamic practices has made a difference. He spoke about his experiences with preparations, the astrology connection with plants, the need for a human connection to the plants, and the benefits of cooperating with neighboring farmers. The only speaker from the USA was Walter Goldstein of Michael Fields Institute who spoke about the corn breeding research he is doing on his farm near East Troy, Wisconsin. Walter, like all the European speakers, gave his presentation in German - thank goodness for translators since I only know English! There was one plant breeder who spoke on "Seed Chaos" and other researchers who spoke on the more abstract concepts of bio-dynamic agriculture. The English translation of those more in depth concepts was difficult for the translators to do, plus the concepts were too advanced for a beginner like me to understand. One of the speakers used a quote from a speech made by Steiner on November 4, 1905 and I would like to close with that thought. Steiner said, "Take what was given by God and change it in the lab. Change won't happen without human help. But humans must be properly trained." This statement is so meaningful today as we are faced with the issues of genetic engineering being done by people who are not properly trained. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 08:47:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA25962 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:47:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA15693; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:37:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA15506 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:35:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.106] (pm3shep3-163-156.intrepid.net [209.190.163.156]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06087 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:37:55 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:39:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: RE: OFF: UPDATE and 'correction': Re:President of Whole Foods Market statesthat he's not against carrying GMO] Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 923 To Jane: I don't know Mr. Hitt personally of course, but I live close enough to Austin to occasionally frequent his main store. I fully intend to drop them a line and relate my feelings about the broad statement issued recently. That, I fear purchasing from them if they approve of these selections. Labeling is great as far as it goes, but it's not enough. If the markets are buying the GE foods, then they are supporting it's production, period. The only recourse is for enough customers to avoid it, that it's not feasable for the grocer or stores to carry it. I know from a store mgr point of view, a product has to appeal to enough people to warrant a spot on their shelf. If it's too expensive, or it's neighbor is more attractive, it gets ditched. To me, this GE labeling is a poor start in the right direction; just ditching the other options before they're made available. it's going to be extremely hard to find consumables that are not genetically altered in the very near future, if not already. I have to wonder if it were outlawed today and products pulled from the stores, how much actual food would be left intact? GE tentacles have already made huge inroads in the marketplace, and it looks like WholeFoods is just jumping on the caboose of this bandwagon. (Like: "We're not driving this train, we're just along for the ride.") (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 09:07:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26298 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:07:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA17933; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA17585 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:55:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0105.direct.ca ([204.244.83.5] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Iv6w-0006Yr-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 05:57:57 -0800 Message-ID: <36DFE290.5F7929EB@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 05:56:32 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: OFF: Etheric Seeing (Thank U Geoff) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 924 Goeff wrote: You know, after reading Ferdinand's post, most newcomers like me would think about leaving the group. A little out there. But...I'm not so sure about that now. If you asked me earlier this Winter, I'd probably would be one of those who'd be logging off the group. Lately I've been reminding myself that what we see - more precisely the colors we think are real - are not there in the sense we think they are there. It's the light energy that gives them what we think is standard, unchanging, conclusive 'reality'. Dear Goeff, Thank your for your help and post. Sometimes, I may make quantum leaps without thinking of newcomers or whatever. But, somewhere, I thought, I had to start. Today, I spent close to an hour (I had to afford it) with the cows, simply sitting there and observing (on two levels) on the etheric and on the intellectual. Whereas the intellectual level told me that my cows are regurgitating regularly (and chewing the cud between 26 - 43 times) and that they were my cows, black, laying on the sand, dry, absorbing the sun, closed eyed, breathing warmly etc. etc. on the etheric level the entire group had become one. They did not appear black. They appeared (at this moment) blue, like indigo. One unit. There was like a huge cow horn above them, like a spiral going upwards, higher and higher into the cosmos, glittering, like a silken gown can glitter only. And it rotated slowly, - something like a tornado's pipe, but not as fast. Slower. As if a tornado had slowed down, turning perhaps once per five seconds or so. Funny, time did not really come into play, but it was there. I sensed both levels. And a feeling of incredible satisfaction and wellness was streaming out of this 'horn' of plenty. I suddenly understood the meaning: horn of plenty, horn of life, horn of creation. It appeared over the group or the group sent it upwards. From time to time it seemed to reverse its appearance namely, that the wide end was over the cows and the small end was reaching into the sky above. Unlike a tornado. Something is streaming down this tube. And I believe that we are able to catch some of the essence with what we are using in BD with the Preparations 500 and 501. I will have to see whether this 'pipe' does appear above the 500 and 501 preparation site as well. Could be. My cows, however, do not have horns. They are Galloways with Hereford mix. Both have no horns. Some of the cows have a center horn, about 3" high, under the hair, looks like a hump. Can be painful if they push you with it. So, the horn I have observed has nothing to do with the horns on the cows. WEll, that 'tube' does look, to be a bit more precise, like dried ink or the inside of a shell, mother of pearl, but dark, dark blue. And I think the feeling one has, when observing this, is most important. Health comes to mind. Joy. Satisfaction. Deep feeling of peace. Warmth. Although that color, in my mind, never gave me the feeling of warmth - at least until now. I am writing this as I am trying to reflect back to what I have seen. Just jotting it down. You cannot sit there with pencil and paper. The cows would eat it or come to rub their noses. T'was difficult as it is as I had to sit among them. Trust had to be established, real trust so that they would let me in. It was like a gate, the gate of trust. Yes. You cannot do it in a feed lot, I think. There is too much tension, anxiety, scare, fright. My cows know that they can relax, I think. To know each other is also important. I am dressed in a RED jacket. Really red. The bull does not mind. Neither do the cows. The opposite color of red is green. So, what I saw was not a reflection of my jacket nor the cows color. They are black and some are black and white. There is one more thing which seems to be important to convey. Down these horn of plenty came a stream of (golden) pearl like droplets. Not that many, but enough to be seen, enough - like, well, the opposite of air bubbles floating to the surface. These pearl bubbles came down. Wonderful to see. Slowly. They were absorbed by the cows. They had a diameter, well, perhaps an inch, four inches? They came down and dissolved. Golden, moonlike, yes, like moons, many moon spheres. That is right, moon spheres. Mild in their light - why moon? No intellectual questions asked. Just observing. And the cows seemed to float. The whole group. They really appeared to be suspended. Well, that was a bit of work with the cows. Hope someone can help here and let me know what they have experienced. Regards Ferdinand -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 09:26:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26553 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:26:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA20428; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:16:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd102.hotmail.com [207.82.252.166]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA19917 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:13:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 6735 invoked by uid 0); 5 Mar 1999 14:15:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19990305141531.6734.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Mar 1999 06:15:31 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Cc: uai@stc.net Subject: Ethers and Thumbs Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 06:15:31 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 925 Dear Hugh, It certainly was not my intention to haunt you with this. I was alluding to the recognician and manifestation of ethers. These people in Asia are in fact rare among Asians Today as well. Also becoming rare in Asia is the number of people able to practice their ancient arts of geomancy known as "Feing Shua"(SP) due to the march of materializm there. A similiar comparison in the West would be people that still possesed knowledge and behaviour of the ethers. I have only realized, with more understanding of the world of dowsing, as you had suggested earlier, that the thumb was indication of the ether. In Brittish understanding of the system of Leys, mounds and Barrows in their sacred landscapes and Straight Tracks, they are able to dowse two different currents. The one that runs the runs above ground, of which there are 5 different bands, has to do with the Straight Tracks. The other below ground deals with 2 and concerns mostly with the thumbs. The Chinese landscape for the most part is one that Feng Shua masters played a great part in forming. These masters use a compass that is much in resemblence of the dowsers chart. The use of the I-Ching for the most part is indicative of those two ethers of Ying and Yang. All this aside, for the most part, the Feng Shua practitioners are mainly concerned with the force that runs above ground. In the west, we have materialism running dominant in this thing we call civilization. People of materializm, for example, only see water in the form of Rain. They never look to water as an element running beneath the surface, except in rual communities. In contrasting the two, East/West, we see pockets of individuals with knowledge of the ethers. In the East - 2 ethers and rare 2 thumbed people, the west 1 ether and 1 thumbed people. Some in the west are rediscovering the phenomena of ethers. When these discoveries become a dominant theme amoungst pockets of people with a knowledge of ethers, the physiology of the people alludes to and is manifested. Now people may "thumb" their nose at this proposition, but in the past, when the ancient arts were much more prevalent and lucid amoang Asian cultures, 2 thumbed people were much less rare. People in the west primarily, at this same era of time were effected by hypothyriodism the disorder of the metabolistic system. The system of leys itself is one that may help mediate the earth in metabolistic disorder with its 7-fold bands. It is obvious that I am saying that the practice of the ley system holds man in its' intricate balance meaning: we are of the earth; ashes to ashes, dust to dust. With the rise of metabolistic disorders here in the U.S.; diabeteas, arthritis(arthur-rite-us?), etc..., I would suggest that Leys and Straight tracks would help give maintenance to the people that leave in or near its' boarders. With all respect, Michael. Hey, I shure am glad I said nothing of the childern who are born with an extended spine resembling a tail that is eventually removed surgically. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 10:13:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27537 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:13:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA28694; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:03:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28187 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:01:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0096B329@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:04:14 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 5 Mar 99 10:04:06 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 5 Mar 99 10:03:50 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:03:46 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: smart plants and human intellect Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <11968F4815BB@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 926 Hi Geoff, I just wanted to thank you for your letter to the bd list serve, especially for that INTERESTING article on plant signals. That was wonderful. It looks like you got it off the web, could you send me the site? Also, regarding your comment on Ferdinand's comment on "intellectual thinking," I think you've hit on a very interesting topic. After having gone to a Waldorf school from age 4 to 18 (Rudolf Steiner's system of education) and even after interning recently on a bd farm, there's so much about bd and anthoposophy that seems WAY too "out there" to me and I have a funny attraction/repulsion to it. I do think that you understood the seeming denegration of intellectual thinking in the right way. I think that there is certainly plenty of evidence to show that there are limits to intellect as a tool for understanding the world. However, there are also airy-fairy types who are attracted to anthroposophy who are very defensive of questions or criticisms by people who are using their intellectual capacities, and I think that that is not what was intended by Steiner. I certainly had a very intellectually challenging and stimulating education in a "Steiner" school, and some of the people I most respect in the world were my high school teachers. If you ask anthrosophists about it, they will tell you that "questioning" (surly a very intellectual excercise) is the first tenent of anthroposophy. However, when you actually do question, you will find that there are many who will come down against you. It's important to remember that (imo) there are few people who can really grasp this stuff, a lot of people who just like to be far out, and those of us in the middle trying to make sense of things once in a while. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 10:31:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27963 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:31:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA02590; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:21:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01639 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:17:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0096B739@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:19:37 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 5 Mar 99 10:19:32 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 5 Mar 99 10:19:29 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:19:25 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Ethers and Thumbs Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990305141531.6734.qmail@hotmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1196D1E05827@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 927 Well, at the risk of being the lists "devil's advocate," I just have to comment that this whole big deal over Asians with extra digits seems a little silly to me. I recently came back from the Dominican Republic where US surgeons go several times a year to offer free surgeries for things like burn scars, cleft lips/palates, and (yes!) extra digits. My work there had nothing to do with doctors (I was helping in agriculture), but it was well known that extra digits are a common birth "defect." Now, I dunno what sortta mystical interpretations you want to put on an extra finger/thumb, but it seems to me if you're going to do that, then you must have similar explanations for all the other "abnormalities." I mean, what's a conjoined twin mean? What does webbing between the toes mean? Why do some people get cleft palates? There are plenty of "see-ers" and psychics, etc who see an explanation at the individual karmic level (Edgar Cayce comes to mind), but I'm more skeptical of this extra digit as evidence of greater spiritual development thing. If nothing else, I hope you'll appreciate a challenging and differing opinion. Anita From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 10:57:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28545 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:57:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA07692; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:48:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06891 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:44:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0111.direct.ca ([204.244.83.11] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Iwo1-0006In-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:46:30 -0800 Message-ID: <36DFFC04.1186DE0D@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 07:45:08 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Kindred Spirits References: <000601be6709$453636a0$9fa082d1@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 928 Dear Ruth, I think we, on this continent, are often (too darn) individuals. We say 'I' in a totally different manner than the people in Europe. I am oscillating back and forth between the two I's of here (this continent) and Europe's. However, the Europeans have one 'challenge' - they form 'huddles' and groups and if you are not part of one or the other (group), God, then is it tough to be an outsider. Ostracizing is a European invention (actually Greek) - it leads to the becoming of an individual. Thank you for being part of the total. Regards Ferdinand Ocooch Mtn. Acres / Ken & Ruth Rupp wrote: > > Dear Ruth & Ken, > > > > Hope I did not shock you too much with my contribution re; Greg Willis. > Well, we > * have nuts among us, I can tell you. Hope all is well in the Maple Leaf > Grove. > * > * Regards Ferdinand > > And with that nut I include myself of course! Ferdinand > > Ferdinand - Thanks for your concern. I was not directing my "Be Nice" > message to any particular person and definitely not to you - I have heard > good things about you from another member of the list server with whom I am > friends. It is just that it seems in the USA those of us who say we are > "kindred spirits" in the organic and bio-dynamic movements are not as nice > to each other as we should be. This is an observation I have made over the > last 10 years of how things are between some of the organic and bio-dynamic > people here in southwestern Wisconsin. When I read some of the messages > that came through in my first 24 hours of subscribing to this list server, I > was concerned that the members of this list server were also of the > personality to be nasty to each other! Then after I sent out my "be nice" > message and the response from one person was the message about the evils of > politeness, I was further concerned about what kind of people were > subscribers to the BDNOW list server! However I am getting lots of good > information from the BDNOW server and will continue to be part of it. I > just have difficulty understanding why the organic and bio-dynamic culture > here in the USA is so different from what I have experienced in Europe. > > >From the Ocooch Mountains & Kickapoo River Valley of southwestern Wisconsin > with Love, > Ruth ruthrupp@mwt.net -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 12:00:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00223 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:00:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA20577; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:51:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19998 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:48:32 -0500 (EST) From: JHatf18942@aol.com Received: from JHatf18942@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HHTRa08074 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:49:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <45c69b3a.36e00b37@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:49:59 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ethers and Thumbs Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 929 Anita - I might agree. My wife is a doctor here in Michigan's U.P. and she sees extra digits quite often. Most often the digit lacks any skeletal structure and is really only held on by skin, vessels, nerves, etc. Very nonfunctional and always immediately removed. Jeff From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 12:00:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00226 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:00:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA20712; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:51:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd98.hotmail.com [207.82.252.162]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA20179 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:49:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 4931 invoked by uid 0); 5 Mar 1999 16:51:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19990305165112.4930.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:51:11 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ethers and Thumbs Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:51:11 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 930 Dear Anita, I was simply observing a physical change due to a difference in consciousness. It has nothing to do with Asians per-se. I was using this particular example because I am familiar with their ancient arts, many of which are still being practiced, and their physical development. To me, it seems strange that we are taught since youth to think that everything has been done and that we are finished works, when nature is constantly changing. The things that we call abnormalities are considered abnormal because they don't fit into our given norm. That is why civilization rises in infancy and then suddenly collaspes into obscurity. It is also at the same time groups of power-seeking groups defining their new norms to place their yokes of expectations on unsuspecting peoples. These cultures I am speaking of seek to repress anything that does not fit into their norm, by ignoring and isolating the problem to Institutions. By allowing Science of Materialism, that is Science without ethics, to isolate these things we are also banishing nature and ignoring obvious things that may be happening while becoming a sterile and boring culture with no vitality. I think each should be loved and a pouring of love should flow out to these individuals. So my meaning was intended to be this; We have the ability to bring new "good" things about by intent of our conciousness through prayer and through beneficial desires. If we seek to sense things on a higher level, we may be able to come to fullness in both a physical and spiritual way. If we leave it alone we are destined to become stagnant and waste away. By no means was I attempting to isolate or point a finger at a particular group, mainly because I do not see it as an abnormality. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 12:09:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00494 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:09:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA22250; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:00:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd88.hotmail.com [207.82.252.152]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA21941 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:58:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 3555 invoked by uid 0); 5 Mar 1999 17:00:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19990305170023.3554.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Mar 1999 09:00:22 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Intellegent Plant Life Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 09:00:22 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 931 However, there are also airy-fairy types who are attracted to anthroposophy who are very defensive of questions or criticisms by people who are using their intellectual capacities, and I think that that is not what was intended by Steiner.(?) However, when you actually do question, you will find that there are many who will come down against you. It's important to remember that (imo) there are few people who can really grasp this stuff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 12:59:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA01487 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:59:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA02681; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:50:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02125 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:48:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0203.direct.ca ([204.244.83.19] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Iyk0-0005c2-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:50:29 -0800 Message-ID: <36E01913.CCB19CEC@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 09:49:07 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ethers and Thumbs References: <45c69b3a.36e00b37@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 932 My friend, Herbert Pfeifer MD and ND (also Secretary of the German ND Society) in Frankfurt reported on the following case. He told me that people, for whatever reason, have 'add ons', moles, wisdom teeth, appendix, extra finger etc. etc. A lady came to his office who had a very large mole on her leg. It was not visible when walking or sitting but she felt that it should be removed. My friend felt that it should be left alone as it appeared to be a 'concentration' of energies or a spot in which certain energies could confluence. Said lady came to his office many times and wanted to have it removed - yet, the discussions always ended with him pointing out that this is a place where the body is storing certain energies, like a cork on a bottle - that he could feel, from having studied it and meditated for a long time, that if it was removed the body would simply develop another mole, somewhere else. The lady did not return for a year and when she came back, her leg had been amputated. He was in shock. What happened, he asked? Well, she admitted that she had her mole removed and within a few month she was diagnosed with cancer in the very spot where the mole was removed and it spread quickly. Needless to say that my friend did not push his point any further and helped her to cope with her new situation. She was treated homeopathically and appears to be in a newly balanced, yet fragile state of mind. Regards Ferdinand JHatf18942@aol.com wrote: > Anita - I might agree. My wife is a doctor here in Michigan's U.P. and she > sees extra digits quite often. Most often the digit lacks any skeletal > structure and is really only held on by skin, vessels, nerves, etc. Very > nonfunctional and always immediately removed. Jeff -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 13:37:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA02358 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:37:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA10244; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:27:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09965 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:25:56 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hBYVa22613 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:27:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <279ce910.36e02216@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:27:34 EST To: BDnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: re: intelligent plant life Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 933 Those little green men may be the plants and extraterrestrial intelligence the formative forces ( ethers ) so the "aliens" are already here! Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 13:53:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA02828 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:53:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14327; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13810 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:42:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0203.direct.ca ([204.244.83.19] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10IzaK-0001Jb-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:44:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36E025BD.4965D767@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:43:09 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ethers and Thumbs References: <1196D1E05827@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 934 Dear Anita, Our deeds have consequences. What we do in this life will how in our bodily configuration (if we want to call it that way) in a next life. We are the master of our temple and can destroy it or build it up. There is an additional body besides our physical, the ether body. And into that body, everything is engraved (deeds, thoughts, feelings etc.) What I am trying to say is this: the past (deeds, feelings and thoughts) do reflect themselves in our 1999 body. One does not have to be a clairvoyant to realise that a lie of yesterday may burden me havily today - and can cause me to become ill. I do not know how much you have dealt with the question of reincarnation. Dr. Steiner's philosophy does not make sense if one cannot believe it that segment of it. Dr. STeiner, for example, makes it VERY clear that what you do with your hands will be reflected in your head (formation) in a next life. In my regressions and aura reading with clients I can see the metamorphosis very clearly. It is as if certain 'knots' do appear (as if you would turn a glove inside out). May I compare it with water that is moving down a river, welling up, descending down, creating the most incredible forms - yet, the stones underneath are invisible = our deeds. But that is only a comparison, a picture. Perhaps it may help a bit. Respectfully submitted Ferdinand Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > Well, at the risk of being the lists "devil's advocate," I just have > to comment that this whole big deal over Asians with extra digits > seems a little silly to me. I recently came back from the Dominican > Republic where US surgeons go several times a year to offer free > surgeries for things like burn scars, cleft lips/palates, and (yes!) > extra digits. My work there had nothing to do with doctors (I was > helping in agriculture), but it was well known that extra digits are > a common birth "defect." Now, I dunno what sortta mystical > interpretations you want to put on an extra finger/thumb, but it > seems to me if you're going to do that, then you must have similar > explanations for all the other "abnormalities." I mean, what's a > conjoined twin mean? What does webbing between the toes mean? Why > do some people get cleft palates? There are plenty of "see-ers" and > psychics, etc who see an explanation at the individual karmic level > (Edgar Cayce comes to mind), but I'm more skeptical of this extra > digit as evidence of greater spiritual development thing. If nothing > else, I hope you'll appreciate a challenging and differing opinion. > > Anita -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 13:56:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA02901 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:56:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15114; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:47:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd104.hotmail.com [207.82.252.168]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14676 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:46:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 21981 invoked by uid 0); 5 Mar 1999 18:48:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19990305184809.21980.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.144.107.12 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:48:09 PST X-Originating-IP: [207.144.107.12] From: "Michael Smith" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: re: intelligent plant life Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:48:09 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 935 Hey Patrick, We may be the aliens. Michael., ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 13:57:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA02918 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:57:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15003; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:47:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14280 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:44:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0203.direct.ca ([204.244.83.19] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10IzcO-0003AZ-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:46:40 -0800 Message-ID: <36E0263D.38726F9E@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:45:17 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: smart plants and human intellect References: <11968F4815BB@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 936 BRAVO ANITA.! Same feelings here as a former Waldorf Student. Regards Ferdinand Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > Hi Geoff, > I just wanted to thank you for your letter to the bd list serve, > especially for that INTERESTING article on plant signals. That was > wonderful. It looks like you got it off the web, could you send me > the site? > > Also, regarding your comment on Ferdinand's comment on "intellectual > thinking," I think you've hit on a very interesting topic. After > having gone to a Waldorf school from age 4 to 18 (Rudolf Steiner's > system of education) and even after interning recently on a bd farm, > there's so much about bd and anthoposophy that seems WAY too "out > there" to me and I have a funny attraction/repulsion to it. I do > think that you understood the seeming denegration of intellectual > thinking in the right way. I think that there is certainly plenty of > evidence to show that there are limits to intellect as a tool for > understanding the world. However, there are also airy-fairy types who > are attracted to anthroposophy who are very defensive of questions or > criticisms by people who are using their intellectual capacities, and > I think that that is not what was intended by Steiner. I certainly > had a very intellectually challenging and stimulating education in a > "Steiner" school, and some of the people I most respect in the world > were my high school teachers. If you ask anthrosophists about it, > they will tell you that "questioning" (surly a very intellectual > excercise) is the first tenent of anthroposophy. However, when you > actually do question, you will find that there are many who will come > down against you. It's important to remember that (imo) there are few > people who can really grasp this stuff, a lot of people who just like > to be far out, and those of us in the middle trying to make sense of > things once in a while. > > Anita > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 13:57:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA02926 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:57:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15254; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:48:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14903 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:47:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0203.direct.ca ([204.244.83.19] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Izf0-0001Y8-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:49:23 -0800 Message-ID: <36E026DF.1FC0149A@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:47:59 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: intelligent plant life References: <279ce910.36e02216@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 937 Have been here for eons but not recognized. Now they start talking. Regards Ferdinand PatandLiz@aol.com wrote: > Those little green men may be the plants and extraterrestrial intelligence > the formative forces ( ethers ) so the "aliens" are already here! > > Patrick -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 14:18:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03429 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:18:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19518; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:08:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19305 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:07:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0097044E@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:10:02 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 5 Mar 99 14:09:56 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 5 Mar 99 14:09:46 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:09:40 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Ethers and Thumbs Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36E025BD.4965D767@direct.ca> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <119AA89428B9@agecon.uga.edu> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 938 Thank you Ferdinand, that was a very nice letter you just sent me. I personally don't consider belief in karma to be at all "airy fairy" (my words from the previous letter) nor to be any strain on my intellectual capacities. It's hard for me to imagine making any sense at all of the world without this basic tenent. That said, I have to admit that what little I have read of Steiner on this topic is either unintelligible to me or off the mark. What you say in your letter does make plenty of sense to me, however. Maybe you could share some quotes from Steiner saying what you say he said and maybe I'll be able to understand it. Steiner, like the Bible, is often more palatable in tiny bites with some intelligent insights by third parties to wash it down. On a slightly different topic, I had no idea that you do regressions and aura readings for clients. How interesting. Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 14:35:11 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03771 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:35:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23344; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:26:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from wavecom.net (root@wave.sheridan.wy.us [206.54.116.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22995 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from dbrown.wavecom.net (sher29.wavecom.net [206.54.116.114]) by wavecom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14771 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:16:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199903051916.MAA14771@wavecom.net> From: "Audrey Malan" To: Subject: Re: OFF: UPDATE and 'correction': Re:President of Whole Foods Market statesthat he's not against carrying GMO] Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:27:13 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 939 Greetings Jane, You are thinking along much deeper lines than society - why are things the way they are? For one thing, people are entrenched in an economic system that leaves them devoid of their own human dignity - this relates directly to their relationship with themselves, eachother, the earth - soil, food, - our spiritual reality and relationship/connectedness to all. I agree - it isn't about labeling, it is about something much deeper. Until one feels it - I'm not sure how another can spark it. Ideas? I am thinking now about my friends that recycled in the 70's - they seemed an odd group, hauling around their garbage to different places. Now, in Seattle, recycling is so normal, people don't even think about it - they just do it. How did that happen? Here in Wyoming, we are driving around, with our garbage looking for a place to recycle... it is just getting started here - but, I do believe it will happen here as well. Why? Maybe just because it is right, and we humans long for that. In the meantime, us nuts go about our lives, speaking what we see as true, and, eventually, it catches on --- granted, time is ticking out! for our dear earth, but on we go... --------------- I am new to this site - Audrey Malan, here in Dayton, Wyoming. I work with cooperative businesses, have been doing so for the last 11 years. We moved here from Seattle two years ago - now have some land and are preparing to farm in the Spring. Novices all the way. Was compelled to Biodynamics the first time I heard about it - tried it last year on our first Wyoming garden, and boom! we were struck by the results - now moving into a much bigger operation. I do believe that cooperative action, from the informal sharing of a tractor (can guys do that?), to more formal cooperative purchasing and marketing agreements, is the way of our shared future. Not that it is easy! but just makes the most practical sense... Green regards to you all - Audrey -------------------- Audrey Malan Cooperative Consulting PO Box 527 Dayton, WY 82836 Ph: 307-655-9162 Fx: 307-655-3785 email: redearth@wavecom.net ---------- > From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: OFF: UPDATE and 'correction': Re:President of Whole Foods Market statesthat he's not against carrying GMO] > Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 7:48 PM > > Excuse me folks but am I just cranky, or is this like throwing a bone with > rotten flecks of meat still attached to an angry dog? > > WHy do I have this creepy feeling that in the last 10 years or more health > food stores are just another form of food mill churning out more junk > processed food with little value mixed in with some things that may have > value just to appeal to "market share"? Why do I feel like labeling laws > are a waste of money like bandaids on infected untreated wounds which just > make lawyers or doctors rich and don't change a darn thing about how food > is produced, about how consumers are best informed and educated as to what > even is healthy food. > > Why do I feel that it is a wasted effort to demand that our law bodies > waste time and money debating a label law when meanwhile no one even knows > how to eat or what is a truly healthful way to eat. I talk to folks who > take workshops and pay lots of money for "insprirational" speakers to tell > them what to do and so they decide to go on a raw foods diet, but see > nothing wrong with buying those "raw" vegetables already cut up and > "washed" for them and put into a cellaphane bag so they can drop them in a > bowl and dose it with flax seed oil and lemon and think they're doing > themselves a favor? > > Am I missing something here? Did I miss something with this quote about > Chris Hitt of Whole foods? Did he or did he not say that IF foods that are > genetically labeled as such, then they WILL find a place in whole foods > markets? This labeling thing is diversionary tactics if you ask me! Just > where is this correction? > > I recently heard a small part of an Angela Davis speech given at a > university in upstate NY titled "The Prison Industrial Complex". When I > think about how uninformed, ill informed, uneducated, confused and under > researched the health professions and most folks are about food, farming > and nutrition it really gets to me! Davis talked about how the cutbacks in > education just in NYState ALONE were practically equal to the "billions", > yes B Billions of increased funds given to the prison system here!! No > wonder people don't know anything about food! > > Labels? > > JS From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 18:16:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA08720 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:16:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA03690; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:07:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03524 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:05:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0210.direct.ca ([204.244.83.26] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10J3hN-0001KD-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:08:05 -0800 Message-ID: <36E0637C.F2ADAEE9@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 15:06:37 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Ethers and Thumbs References: <119AA89428B9@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 940 Dear Anita, Many thanks for your kind response. Glad to have a Waldorf Student on the Net. Makes me feel a bit better now - you know why? Because you have the same (if not much more) abilities than I (you sound younger and fuller of zest....!). You see, I have been working with etheric seeing for a long long time and I have taken courses, too. Whatever I do with etheric seeing I do NOT charge. Nor for Aura Reading. The people who come to see me or whom I see, may give a donation to C-Dar World Forest Foundation. But, I really do not want to get this into the domaine of money. I already suffer when I have to sell BD Preparations of which I make a lot (of preparations and not money). But, from somewhere, the Society has to get an income. All the best Ferdinand Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > Thank you Ferdinand, that was a very nice letter you just sent me. I > personally don't consider belief in karma to be at all "airy fairy" > (my words from the previous letter) nor to be any strain on my > intellectual capacities. It's hard for me to imagine making any > sense at all of the world without this basic tenent. That said, I > have to admit that what little I have read of Steiner on this topic > is either unintelligible to me or off the mark. What you say in your > letter does make plenty of sense to me, however. Maybe you could > share some quotes from Steiner saying what you say he said and maybe > I'll be able to understand it. Steiner, like the Bible, is often > more palatable in tiny bites with some intelligent insights by third > parties to wash it down. > > On a slightly different topic, I had no idea that you do regressions > and aura readings for clients. How interesting. > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 21:47:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA11473 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:47:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA25029; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:38:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA24920 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:37:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 14408 invoked from network); 5 Mar 1999 19:39:19 -0700 Received: from ts2-13.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.164) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 1999 19:39:19 -0700 Message-ID: <36E09575.141A1FD2@cyberhighway.net> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 19:39:54 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Salmon River Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Backyard BD CSA References: <199903051916.MAA14771@wavecom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 941 Dear Friends, After hearing of my plans to grow a humongous amount of food in my back yard this year, several friends have asked to buy memberships in my garden, and who am I to turn down a request from a friend? Some are intrigued by the biodynamics they've been hearing me talk about, and others are happy to just be able to buy organic produce in this town. The plan began as growing "enough food to feed 8 people for a year." This in itself is a big leap for me, because I'll have to be more organized and left-brain in my gardening than ever before. I can handle the gardening part, but I'm writing to ask advice from those of you with experience operating a CSA, especially if it began in your back yard as mine is. I've been learning what I could about CSA's since I joined the BDNOW list, and it appears my time has come! But I'm not sure what I'll need to think about here. What do I expect members to supply or contribute? For one friend, I'll need to package a cooler full of food and take it to the airport whenever a plane flies out to the backcountry where he spends his summers. He is helping me install four new raised beds as soon as the soil dries enough. I expect the others will come here to collect their boxes, but I don't know yet how much they'll be able to help with the work. I would appreciate any advice on any consideration or aspect of this endeavor. I feel a bit (okay, a lot) intimidated by the responsibility I'm taking on. Thank you very much! Blessings, Pam DeTray From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 5 22:37:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA12053 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 22:37:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA29824; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 22:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.state.vt.us (mail.state.vt.us [170.222.64.134]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA29688 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 22:27:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [170.222.217.75] by mail.state.vt.us (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44988U13000L13000S0) with SMTP id AAA202 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 22:29:58 -0500 Message-ID: <36E1F38B.2719@pop.k12.vt.us> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 22:33:31 -0500 From: khuttbrd@pop.k12.vt.us (Kevin Hutt (BRD)) X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow Subject: Tompkins Interview Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 942 What a nice overview of P. Tompkins works. Although I've heard of "Secrets of the Soil" I've never read it. That'll soon change. As a newcomer to the BDNow List and "grasshopper" in BD practice, I've appreciated the informative posts. Here in Vermont we've got a strong backing of BD Ag. The practical info as well as the spiritual insights (Tomkins interview included!) are timely for my efforts on this small homestead I'm converting from organic to BD methods. Chickens in a deep litter house sprayed with BC have enjoyed a mild winter in the Northeast. If all goes well, the 1/2 acre of north-facing woodland slope at 1500 ft will have a new population of pigs. The 3-4 pigs will enjoy pasture and woodland. Does anyone have tips for pig breeds? As well as joining the effort, the pigs will become a center of livestock attention for our young boys (ages 2 and 5). Many have suggested heirloom breeds, however they haven't an idea of where to find adequate sources. I'd appreciate info about Northeast connections. Regards, Kevin From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 00:45:45 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA13752 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:45:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA11139; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:36:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10969 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:33:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp316.cy-net.net [208.21.195.126] (may be forged)) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA24311 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:35:57 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE675F.33056C20@FLYLO>; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:23:38 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE675F.33056C20@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: Kevin's pig breeds Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:23:37 -0600 Encoding: 16 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 943 Kevin: I'd caution you against the heirloom breeds simply because they are high priced, and notoriously fatty and hard to keep. If you're really determined, I know a source in Maine for Glouchester Old Spot Hog. Tamworth is about the oldest breed I'd recommend raising as pure strain. I've raised them, and they're a long hog, not chuffy, and great mothering instinct on pasture. I've also raised Chester Whites and Duroc on pasture, but they do tend to run to fat and are difficult in our hot climate. The Tamworth has been the best hog for large litters, easy keepers, and pasture operations, and overall better meat qualities. They're a red hog, very long body, upright ears, and very intelligent. (I don't like a pig or any animal that can't raise its head to look at me!_) The 'old time' hog operators swear the duroc and other floppy eared hog is much better because they can't lift their heads to see you, and two, if they do, their ears blind them. Landrace is an old (semi old) breed that is long and lean and 'ear blind'. Martha From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 00:48:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA13775 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:48:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA11367; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:39:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11313 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:38:41 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hBUTa26925 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:39:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:39:58 EST To: BDnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: life Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 944 I'm feeling like I'm drowning in a sea of mediocrity. How much of myself should I sell to the powers that be? Woody once said something to this effect...." the dinosaur will collapse under of its own weight." Must we sell out and become "old" to become "farmers?" Some of us know the retired guy selling Miracle-gro at the end of his life on TV, and the annual assault on dandelions every spring. Must benevolence only come after selling out when you are young? Pay the dinosaur for the rest of your life to practice BD farming? Or, feed the beast and make the best of it? This is how it is if to press the issue of food/nurtition to the unwashed. Sacrifice? Not only my right teste, but my left one too? Not only my lower chakras are involved here. It is every other body of myself. Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 01:43:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA14161 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 01:43:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA14432; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 01:33:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA14357 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 01:33:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 5360 invoked from network); 5 Mar 1999 23:35:16 -0700 Received: from ts2-08.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.159) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 1999 23:35:16 -0700 Message-ID: <36E0CCBB.E1F5276E@cyberhighway.net> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 23:35:56 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Salmon River Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: 1998 Was Warmest Year Of Millenium References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 945 3 MARCH 1999 Contact: Harvey Leifert hleifert@agu.org 202-939-3212 American Geophysical Union 1998 Was Warmest Year Of Millennium, Climate Researchers Report WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Researchers at the Universities of Massachusetts and Arizona who study global warming have released a report strongly suggesting that the 1990s were the warmest decade of the millennium, with 1998 the warmest year so far. Researchers have also found that the warming in the 20th century counters a 1,000-year-long cooling trend. The study, by Michael Mann and Raymond Bradley of the University of Massachusetts and Malcolm Hughes of the University of Arizona, appears in the March 15 issue of Geophysical Research Letters, published by the American Geophysical Union. The research was supported by the U.S. Department of Energy and the National Science Foundation. "Temperatures in the latter half of the 20th century were unprecedented," said Bradley. The study involved a close examination of natural archives, such as tree rings and ice cores, which record climate variations each year. These natural archives are called "proxy indicators" by scientists and allow researchers to consider the short instrumental record of climate in a longer-term perspective. Using proxy information gathered by scientists around the world during the past few decades, the team used sophisticated computer analysis and statistics to reconstruct yearly temperatures and their statistical uncertainties, going back to the year AD 1000. Specifically, they relied on three sets of 1,000-year-long tree-ring records from North America, plus tree rings from northern Scandinavia, northern Russia, Tasmania, Argentina, Morocco, and France. Additionally, they studied ice cores from Greenland and the Andes mountains. "As you go back farther in time, the data become sketchier. One can't quite pin things down as well," noted Mann, "but, our results do reveal that significant changes have occurred, and temperatures in the latter 20th century have been exceptionally warm compared to the preceding 900 years. Though substantial uncertainties exist in the estimates, these are nonetheless startling revelations." Research published by the same team last year reconstructed yearly global surface temperature patterns going back 600 years. That study and the current report both relied on natural archives, and determined that human-induced greenhouse gases were a major factor in 20th century global warming. The year 1998 was found to be the warmest year on record in separate reports released by National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). The reports were issued in January 1999, reviewing climatic conditions for the previous year, but the studies examined records only going back 120 years. The new study puts the conclusions from NASA and NOAA in a much longer perspective. According to the researchers, the 1,000-year reconstruction reveals that temperatures dropped an average of 0.02 degrees Celsius per century prior to the 20th century. This trend is consistent with the "astronomical theory" of climate change, which considers the effects of long-term changes in the nature of the Earth's orbit relative to the Sun, which influence the distribution of solar energy at the Earth's surface over many millennia. "If temperatures change slowly, society and the environment have time to adjust," said Mann. "The slow, moderate, long-term cooling trend that we found makes the abrupt warming of the late 20th century even more dramatic. The cooling trend of over 900 years was dramatically reversed in less than a century. The abruptness of the recent warming is key, and it is a potential cause for concern." The latest reconstruction supports earlier theories that temperatures in medieval times were relatively warm, but "even the warmer intervals in the reconstruction pale in comparison with mid-to-late 20th-century temperatures," said Hughes. ### http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/agu-nww030399.html Notes: University of Massachusetts contact: Elizabeth Luciano -- 413-545-2989 -- luciano@journ.umass.edu University of Arizona contact: Lori Stiles -- 520-626-4402 -- lstiles@u.arizona.edu For further information on the science in this paper, journalists may contact: Raymond Bradley at 413-545-2120, rbradley@geo.umass.edu (through March 5). Michael Mann at 413-545-9573, mann@geo.umass.edu (from March 4). Malcolm Hughes at 520-621-2191, mhughes@ltrr.arizona.edu . An on-line press kit, including photos of the researchers, graphics, and a link to the report, is available at: http://www.umass.edu/newsoffice/press/99/0303climate.html . The images will be at: http://www.umass.edu/newsoffice/press/99/0303climateimages.html . FAQ will be at: http://www.umass.edu/newsoffice/press/99/0303climatefaq.html . Journalists and science public information officers (only) may also obtain copies of the Mann et. al. paper upon request to Daryl Tate dtate@agu.org . Please include your fax number. Andy Caffrey Director, Climate Action NOW! P.O. Box 324 Redway, CA 95560 707/923-2114 can@asis.com http://www.imaja.com/change/can/can.html Donations go a long way. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 08:26:35 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16187 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:26:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA04015; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:16:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03805 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:14:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp275.cy-net.net [208.21.195.84]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA11122 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 07:16:42 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE679F.415C94C0@FLYLO>; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 07:02:10 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE679F.415C94C0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: Tyson chicken news Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 07:02:09 -0600 Encoding: 11 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 946 I get a brochure in the mail from Tyson chicken industry. don't know why they send it to me, but I'm always glad to read what 'wonderfulness' they're pushing in their drugged meats. This issue was interesting. One column reported "Did you know" type of facts. Did you know honey is no healthier for you than granulated sugar? Did you know free range chicken and eggs are actually NOT AS NUTRITIOUS as caged birds? Where do they get their fact sources and how can they say this bunk? (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 09:12:57 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16414 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:12:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA06890; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:04:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.state.vt.us (mail.state.vt.us [170.222.64.134]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06661 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:01:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from [170.222.217.76] by mail.state.vt.us (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44988U13000L13000S0) with SMTP id AAA131 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:03:29 -0500 Message-ID: <36E28807.2229@pop.k12.vt.us> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 09:07:03 -0500 From: khuttbrd@pop.k12.vt.us (Kevin Hutt (BRD)) X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Kevin's pig breeds References: <01BE675F.33056C20@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 947 Martha wrote: >(I don't like a pig or any animal that can't raise its head to look at me!_) The 'old time' hog operators swear the duroc and other floppy eared hog is much better because they can't lift their heads to see you, and two, if they do, their ears blind them. Landrace is an old (semi old) breed that is long and lean and 'ear blind'.< Thanks Martha for the reply. I'd be interested in knowing why the 'old time' breeders prefer pigs that can't hold their heads up or that are 'ear blind.' For the task at hand here, we have a newly cleared 1/2 acre of woodland that will ultimately be used as a rotating pasture. At this point, stumps and roots lay uncovered. Although we will use the least invasive means to remove the stumps (cutting off low and plunging the saw deep to allow water in), our intention is to employ pigs in the clearing effort. So, at this point my interest is mainly in the pigs hardiness to the conditions and task at hand. I'm sure that some of the recommended breeds would thrive better here than others. Waiting for the storm (20" of white is predicted over the next two days). Regards, Kevin From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 09:33:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16542 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:33:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA08344; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08185 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:22:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp275.cy-net.net [208.21.195.84]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA15818 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:24:48 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE67A8.B62690E0@FLYLO>; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:09:52 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE67A8.B62690E0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: Kevin's pig breeds Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:09:50 -0600 Encoding: 27 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 948 Kevin, I don't know the answer to ear blind unless it because the pig owners thought that brute force was the only way to handle hogs. (And, the less the animal can see, the better for the human brute.) I do know the domestic hog is one of man's more extreme breeding attempts. We have 'Russian Boar hogs' running wild and when a domestic hog takes off and goes feral, within the NEXT generation, the babies will be big headed, lean, and more like the wild ones than their own dam or sire. A hog will revert to wild quicker than any other domestic animal, I think. If you're just going to get hogs short time, then any mixed breeds would do. If you're going to breed hogs, you'll need to do research and find out from others near you which breeds do best on pasture. You may have more or new problems with hogs in the field. They plow very well, but rarely in the manner you would wish. (often along the fences and under them as well.) Their feet compact the soil also. They HAVE to have a huge water source and tend to make it a mud wallow since this is an essential cooling mechanism. But, if you have an area separated from the pastures, you may be able to succeed with your project if you pen them at night and only allow free range during the day. They're likely to contain the manure in the corners of their close pens and not be as apt to root to China if they have a set schedule to follow. Hogs like routine! (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 09:54:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16665 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:54:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA09918; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:45:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09767 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:44:02 -0500 (EST) From: JHatf18942@aol.com Received: from JHatf18942@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LEYCa19581 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:45:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9d761310.36e13f8f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:45:35 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: microcosmos Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 949 Has anyone esle seen the great movie "Microcosmos". Give it a try, I found it at the local video store. Jeff From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 10:33:15 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA16907 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:33:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA12642; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:24:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12410 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:20:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-4.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.5]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id HAA27212 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 07:22:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903061522.HAA27212@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:22:02 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: life In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id KAA12411 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 950 Patrick: I have the sense here that you're talking about a very basic dilemma in heartfelt anguish, but kind of abstractly. Can you detail for us how the question<> comes up for you? Woody At 12:39 AM 3/6/99 -0500, you wrote: > >   I'm feeling like I'm drowning in a sea of mediocrity. How much of myself >should I sell to the powers that be? Woody once said something to this >effect...." the dinosaur will collapse under of its own weight." Must we sell >out and become "old" to become "farmers?" Some of us know the retired guy >selling Miracle-gro at the end of his life on TV, and the annual assault on >dandelions every spring. Must benevolence only come after selling out when you >are young?  Pay the dinosaur for the rest of your life to practice BD farming? >Or, feed the beast and make the best of it? This is how it is if to press the >issue of food/nurtition to the unwashed. Sacrifice? Not only my right teste, >but my left one too? Not only my lower chakras are involved here. It is every >other body of myself. > >Patrick > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 11:38:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17652 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:38:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17823; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:29:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.153]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17407 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:26:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([195.44.21.10]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:29:28 +0000 Message-ID: <36E1586C.3401@cwcom.net> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 16:31:40 +0000 From: Tony Nelson-Smith Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-IDv3b (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Kevin's pig breeds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 951 Kevin et al. - I know nothing about pig breeding but I doubt if the story of the 'Tamworth Two' reached US news media. Thought you might like to know that, in the autumn of last year, two Tamworth pigs made a break for freedom on their way to market somewhere in the British midlands and managed to evade recapture, even in a fairly urban setting, for several days. They became quite folk-heroes (? heroines) and, when they were eventually run to earth, promises were made that they would live their lives out rather than become butcher's meat - I don't know how this was organised. However, it emphasises the point that Tamworth pigs are intelligent, resourceful and quite athletic ! Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 12:28:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18078 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:28:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA22593; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns2.vphos.net (ns2.vphos.net [207.102.129.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22227 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:16:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from woodyw.netacc.net (ts1-11.creston.kootenay.com [206.108.199.12]) by ns2.vphos.net (8.9.0.Beta5/1.25) with SMTP id JAA04679 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:18:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903061718.JAA04679@ns2.vphos.net> X-Sender: woodyw@mail.kootenay.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:26:05 -0800 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: Tyson chicken news In-Reply-To: <01BE679F.415C94C0@FLYLO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id MAA22228 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 952 Martha: Mark Twain said, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics..." Probably the "facts" Tyson would cite if pressed for them would come from funded university research where results are preordained by the source of the funds. So we have lies, damn lies, statistics, and science. Jane Smiley's _Moo_ tells the tale... Woody At 07:02 AM 3/6/99 -0600, you wrote: >I get a brochure in the mail from Tyson chicken industry. don't know why >they send it to me, but I'm always glad to read what 'wonderfulness' >they're pushing in their drugged meats.  This issue was interesting.  One >column reported "Did you know" type of facts. > >Did you know honey is no healthier for you than granulated sugar? >Did you know free range chicken and eggs are actually NOT AS NUTRITIOUS as >caged birds? >Where do they get their fact sources and how can they say this bunk? >(martha) > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 12:49:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18287 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:49:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA24718; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:40:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24487 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:38:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.70] (pm3shep2-163-70.intrepid.net [209.190.163.70]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00740 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:41:11 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:41:42 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: agsyn.com Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 953 FORWARD: Sent to "webmaster@envirolink.org" and myself today. Your suggestion, please. -AB Allan, Well, you've really taken BDNOW to a new low by printing this letter from Ferdy. I hope you're proud of your accomplishment. Ferdy may, or may not, be hearing from our attorneys just yet but I will bring this incident up with our attorneys this week to consider what action we might appropriately take against your ISP, you personally and BDNOW for printing such unfounded lies and slander. I warned you about this last week and you refused to stop it though I asked you several times to do so. We will take every legal action available to us to remedy the harm that has been done and to assure that it does not happen in the future. Greg Willis ******* Message-ID: <36DB498D.154B8C73@direct.ca> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 18:14:38 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Agsyn.com web page Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WITHOUT PREJUDICE Dear Geoff, I do not want to get involved in a law case here; although it would be rather difficult to make a case. Last year, however, I was threatened by Greg Willis because I sent him a picture of 'a ram's head' that I needed to make Preparation #505. I thought that he, too, was an able, well versed and informed Preparation maker. I sent the same picture to other BDNOW addresses. Greg took my post as a personal attack and threatened me with the RCMP, the FBI and a monster law case. Things got so badly out of hand that I stepped back from any further contact with Greg Willis. However, a few months later, someone emailed me a letter with certain attacks on Greg Willis and I defended him since I felt that a lot of things that were said in this post could not be verified or were (likely) wrong. By mistake I emailed this letter, to Greg - whereupon Greg immediately came back, argued my defense (how shortsighted I was - that I did not know etc. etc.) yet, he asked me whether I would want to become his spiritual student etc. etc. He also included a few lessons of what I had to do in order to be accepted. I did not know what to do and sent him a nice reply; basically turning down his offer. I did not want to offend him. He followed up by telling me that I, under no circumstances, was ready for him and that I would have to work on myself for many more years. It became offensive yet again. Well, I really do not need to be a student to a man who threatened me with all kinds of stuff and who used foulest language against me. So, do I need to say more? Of course, we are on a continent on which free speech is protected (- in the US - I forget which XYZ Amendment), and that is beautiful. But I do not need to be 'amended' by any personal attack(s) - and that is that. There are other statements of Greg's that do not fit BD; I do not have the time to play detective. He is 'free' to say what he thinks and whoever uses his info will have to check it him/herself (as should be done with any info that comes across the Web and BDNOW) We all are exposed to a variety of challenges (mental, physical, financial etc. etc.) and Greg has his, I am sure. I understand that there may be a person (or two) on this list that communicate with Greg Willis on a regular basis; and I hear that they are preparing a case against those who, apparently, attack him slanderously. I do not know of any slanderous attacks on Greg Willis. His attacks on me have been composted and are, now, well rotted. With kind regards: Ferdinand Vondruska PS I am pretty sure I never sent that quote via BDNOW! Where did you get it from? From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 13:31:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18684 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:31:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA28374; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:22:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA28129 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:19:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.73]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:22:34 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:21:59 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: agsyn.com Message-ID: <92DB4A1207AF90D78525672C006467DD.0064D9CC8525672C@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 954 Dear Allan, My suggestion is to ignore Greg Willis as best you can, failing that send him some loving compassion energy through the ethers. This will do more to calm things down than to respond to his virulent litigious nature. Having been on the very personal receiving end of his public vitriolic attacks more than once last year, both publicly and privately I can assure you that my lesson learned is that to engage with such energy is to engage an equally invested part of oneself to maintain that energy. Disengage and stay centered in loving compassion rather than rousing the spiritual warrior within. There are much more worthy and important battles to be waged. Regards, Jane Sherry From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 14:01:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18976 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:01:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA01661; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:52:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01158 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:48:40 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hYIQa17016 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:50:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:50:27 EST To: bdnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: life Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 955 Woody, It is always an interesting thing spilling my guts on the net. But what I meant to say was that I don't look like the stereotype farmer and folks can't always get past it. So selling BD for me is a particular challenge since I don't have the exterior. How's life in the fabulous Kootenay? And friend of mine gave me a bottle of Echinacea Tincture brandy that came from your place..Aurora-Dawn of Chiron? It makes me feel well. Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 14:09:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19059 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:09:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA02791; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:01:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02260 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:57:49 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hERQa28077 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:59:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8308956a.36e17b01@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:59:13 EST To: BDnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: re: Tyson chicken news Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 956 It sounds like the Tyson folks might be getting a little nervous about the decentralization of their industry if they're taking cheap shots at a growing number of small time poultry operators more intersted in quality than quantity. My guess is that we become too much competition the regulations will start popping up in favor of the factory farms ( as if this isn't true already ). Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 14:21:36 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19231 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:21:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA04408; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:12:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA04234 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.161.107]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990306191406.OWEJ682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 08:14:06 +1300 Message-ID: <36E17EBD.30BB@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 08:15:09 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: agsyn.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 957 > Disengage and stay centered in loving compassion rather than rousing the > spiritual warrior within. There are much more worthy and important battles > to be waged. (if possible) here! here! GA From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 14:30:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19300 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:30:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA05394; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:21:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA05085 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:19:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.70] (pm3shep2-163-80.intrepid.net [209.190.163.80]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16568 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:21:18 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:53:45 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Fwd: @griculture Online EXPRESS Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 958 Forwarded by Norio Kushi From: EBugs@aol.com Return-path: To: OGL@lsv.uky.edu Subject: @griculture Online EXPRESS Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:08:01 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit TOP STORIES from the editors of @griculture Online www.agriculture.com For the week ending March 5, 1999 ____________________ COVER STORY Biotech blitz: Gene-seed to cover half of soybean acres; 60% of cotton Farmers are poised to plant more than half the US soybean acres to gene-modified soybeans this year, according to American Soybean Association officials. Gene-modified soybeans could cover 40 million acres this year, Mike Yost, ASA president, told a House Agriculture Committee panel during a hearing on biotech issues. That compares with 27 million acres last year, or 38% of total plantings. Some 60% of US cotton acreage will be planted with biotech varieties in 1999, a National Cotton Council representative told the panel. Worldwide, farmers planted about 69.5 million acres of genetically-modified crops in 1998, including 58 million in the US. http://www.agworldwide.com/scgi/AgNews/AgNews.cgi?FNC=goDetail__ANewsindex_htm l___36797___Farmers&sp;are&sp;poised&sp;t ____________________ Monsanto and DuPont rumor: a mega-merger? Monsanto and DuPont are in preliminary merger discussions, according to a New York Times report... Uzel Makina, the leading Turkish tractor manufacturer, aims to boost its exports of AGCO-licensed Massey Fergusons by 70%.... ExSeed Genetics and Plant Bioscience Ltd, have agreed to co-develop new starch products in corn and rice.... DTN, DIRECTV and the National Rural Telecommunications Cooperative have announced a new service that delivers TV channels from DIRECTV and DTN weather and business information via one dish. The DTN material can be viewed on a standard computer monitor.... The Russian government may drop tractors from a $1-billion farm-machinery import deal with John Deere under pressure from domestic manufacturers. John Deere is offering Russia 3,000 tractors for $427 million, according to Interfax... Get all the latest agribusiness updates in @g News. http://www.agworldwide.com/scgi/AgNews/AgNews.cgi?FNC=AgNews__Astart_html ____________________ Merger could dominate agriculture A rumored merger between Monsanto and DuPont, as reported this week in the New York Times, would mean the creation of the world's largest seller of agricultural products with sales of more than $6 billion annually. But the real concern, analysts say, is the burgeoning revolution in biotechnology. The industry could become worth hundreds of billions of dollars compared to $33 billion currently. The biotechnology market of the future would be dominated by DuPont alone, they say, but adding Monsanto to the mix increases the share significantly, far outpacing European competitors like Aventis, Novartis, and Zeneca. http://www.agriculture.com/worldwide/index.html _____________________ From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 16:38:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA21566 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:38:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA17851; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:30:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (ecpport2.ecopost.com.au [203.28.64.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17597 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:27:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (kmidc65-54.ecopost.com.au [203.28.65.54]) by ecpport2.midcoast.com.au (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA30087 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 08:29:38 +1100 Message-ID: <003f01be6820$c7116240$56411ccb@default> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "D & S Chamberlain" To: Subject: Re: agsyn.com Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 08:27:56 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 959 I agree!!!!! Like the song say's "eliminate the negative, accentuate the positive." DC -----Original Message----- From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage To: bdnow@envirolink.org Date: Sunday, 07 March, 1999 5:16 AM Subject: agsyn.com >> Disengage and stay centered in loving compassion rather than rousing the >> spiritual warrior within. There are much more worthy and important battles >> to be waged. (if possible) > >here! here! > > >GA > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 21:12:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25000 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 21:12:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03173; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 21:02:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28673 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:09:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp277.cy-net.net [208.21.195.86]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA07062 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:23:14 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE67FB.A3094AE0@FLYLO>; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:03:28 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE67FB.A3094AE0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: @griculture Online EXPRESS Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:03:27 -0600 Encoding: 84 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 960 Monsanto and DuPont? Could be some real truth in this action. I work temporary computer svc and for the last 3 years was at Conoco, a DuPont subsidiary. In Fall 98 Conoco announced they were going independent of DuPont, but that wasn't the real story. DuPont was and is divesting itself of all petrochem industry and plunging huge money into biomed - technologies. (martha) -----Original Message----- From: Intergalactic Garage [SMTP:igg@igg.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 1999 12:54 PM To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Fwd: @griculture Online EXPRESS Forwarded by Norio Kushi From: EBugs@aol.com Return-path: To: OGL@lsv.uky.edu Subject: @griculture Online EXPRESS Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:08:01 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit TOP STORIES from the editors of @griculture Online www.agriculture.com For the week ending March 5, 1999 ____________________ COVER STORY Biotech blitz: Gene-seed to cover half of soybean acres; 60% of cotton Farmers are poised to plant more than half the US soybean acres to gene-modified soybeans this year, according to American Soybean Association officials. Gene-modified soybeans could cover 40 million acres this year, Mike Yost, ASA president, told a House Agriculture Committee panel during a hearing on biotech issues. That compares with 27 million acres last year, or 38% of total plantings. Some 60% of US cotton acreage will be planted with biotech varieties in 1999, a National Cotton Council representative told the panel. Worldwide, farmers planted about 69.5 million acres of genetically-modified crops in 1998, including 58 million in the US. http://www.agworldwide.com/scgi/AgNews/AgNews.cgi?FNC=goDetail__ANewsind ex_htm l___36797___Farmers&sp;are&sp;poised&sp;t ____________________ Monsanto and DuPont rumor: a mega-merger? Monsanto and DuPont are in preliminary merger discussions, according to a New York Times report... Uzel Makina, the leading Turkish tractor manufacturer, aims to boost its exports of AGCO-licensed Massey Fergusons by 70%.... ExSeed Genetics and Plant Bioscience Ltd, have agreed to co-develop new starch products in corn and rice.... DTN, DIRECTV and the National Rural Telecommunications Cooperative have announced a new service that delivers TV channels from DIRECTV and DTN weather and business information via one dish. The DTN material can be viewed on a standard computer monitor.... The Russian government may drop tractors from a $1-billion farm-machinery import deal with John Deere under pressure from domestic manufacturers. John Deere is offering Russia 3,000 tractors for $427 million, according to Interfax... Get all the latest agribusiness updates in @g News. http://www.agworldwide.com/scgi/AgNews/AgNews.cgi?FNC=AgNews__Astart_html ____________________ Merger could dominate agriculture A rumored merger between Monsanto and DuPont, as reported this week in the New York Times, would mean the creation of the world's largest seller of agricultural products with sales of more than $6 billion annually. But the real concern, analysts say, is the burgeoning revolution in biotechnology. The industry could become worth hundreds of billions of dollars compared to $33 billion currently. The biotechnology market of the future would be dominated by DuPont alone, they say, but adding Monsanto to the mix increases the share significantly, far outpacing European competitors like Aventis, Novartis, and Zeneca. http://www.agriculture.com/worldwide/index.html _____________________ From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 6 21:13:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25008 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 21:13:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03388; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 21:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from yancey.main.nc.us (yancey.main.nc.us [208.133.41.194]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00326 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:25:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from donnas (ppp21.yancey.main.nc.us [208.133.41.215]) by yancey.main.nc.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA22912 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:28:57 -0500 Message-ID: <011501be6838$a0252a00$c82985d0@donnas> From: "donnas" To: Subject: Re: list participation Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:19:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 961 Anita writes: Just like in a class room, there are people on this list serve who "sit at the front of the class" and comment on EVERYTHING, there are some who chime in from time to time, and then there are the "lurkers" who only participate passively. --------------------------- I must say that this is THE MOst active list I have ever joined. I don't know about the rest of you , but I can't keep up with reading the posts much less comment on any of them; and posts with links that provide background data or more info....... Aye-yaye-eye !!! Yet , because of the wisdom that lies therein, I desparately try to backtrack and at least skim all of them. Hundreds of posts pile up! I don't know how you have time to do all that is necessary on your farms,businesses, and with your families and still have time to read all the posts. I have no family , no outside job and only minimally what you might call a farm, and I can tell already that very soon( as the season begins) I won't have any time at all. BTW: as a newcomer to the list I never formally introduced myself. My name is Dona and I am transitioning from organic to biodynamic and co-creative practices, in the mountains of western North Carolina. I always think of the term, "lurker" as a negative..... and I would like to be a member of your on-line community, but feel that I am better off for now just keeping my mouth shut and my mind open......if that is okay. With great appreciation for everyone's effort....... Donaterra From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 03:13:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA27851 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:13:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA25208; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:04:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA21585 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 01:49:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0105.direct.ca ([204.244.83.5] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10JXPg-0000Pd-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:51:49 -0800 Message-ID: <36E221B4.72041450@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 22:50:28 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Backyard BD CSA References: <199903051916.MAA14771@wavecom.net> <36E09575.141A1FD2@cyberhighway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Pam, make sure you have enough GOOD compost. I do no know your soil fertility, however, if you do not have access to good compost (and you can still inoculate it now) your enterprise may be hard pressed. And then, make seed tests. Check those 'darn' seeds for germination. I am telling you, I have bought a lot of 'well meant and natural' seeds and they often had only a 10% germination. Can be tough in a bed of carrots or radishes. Once you have a crop, don't worry, the rest will (almost) go by itself. Regards Ferdinand Pam DeTray wrote: > Dear Friends, > > After hearing of my plans to grow a humongous amount of food in my back > yard this year, several friends have asked to buy memberships in my garden, > and who am I to turn down a request from a friend? Some are intrigued by the > biodynamics they've been hearing me talk about, and others are happy to just > be able to buy organic produce in this town. > The plan began as growing "enough food to feed 8 people for a year." This > in itself is a big leap for me, because I'll have to be more organized and > left-brain in my gardening than ever before. > I can handle the gardening part, but I'm writing to ask advice from those > of you with experience operating a CSA, especially if it began in your back > yard as mine is. I've been learning what I could about CSA's since I joined > the BDNOW list, and it appears my time has come! > But I'm not sure what I'll need to think about here. What do I expect > members to supply or contribute? For one friend, I'll need to package a cooler > full of food and take it to the airport whenever a plane flies out to the > backcountry where he spends his summers. He is helping me install four new > raised beds as soon as the soil dries enough. I expect the others will come > here to collect their boxes, but I don't know yet how much they'll be able to > help with the work. > I would appreciate any advice on any consideration or aspect of this > endeavor. I feel a bit (okay, a lot) intimidated by the responsibility I'm > taking on. > > Thank you very much! > > Blessings, > Pam DeTray -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 03:13:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA27859 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:13:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA25070; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:03:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA20119 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 01:21:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0105.direct.ca ([204.244.83.5] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10JWyn-0003Zy-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:24:01 -0800 Message-ID: <36E21B30.DDC21A1E@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 22:22:40 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: life References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dear PatandLiz, dear Patrick, A lot of suffering and soul searching is speaking out of your post. I gather you are standing at a cross roads - and I do not want to offer talk. I want to listen. Contact me directly, if you feel that I may be able to help you. My very best regards Ferdinand PatandLiz@aol.com wrote: > I'm feeling like I'm drowning in a sea of mediocrity. How much of myself > should I sell to the powers that be? Woody once said something to this > effect...." the dinosaur will collapse under of its own weight." Must we sell > out and become "old" to become "farmers?" Some of us know the retired guy > selling Miracle-gro at the end of his life on TV, and the annual assault on > dandelions every spring. Must benevolence only come after selling out when you > are young? Pay the dinosaur for the rest of your life to practice BD farming? > Or, feed the beast and make the best of it? This is how it is if to press the > issue of food/nurtition to the unwashed. Sacrifice? Not only my right teste, > but my left one too? Not only my lower chakras are involved here. It is every > other body of myself. > > Patrick -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 03:14:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA27871 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:14:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA25416; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:05:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA22822 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 02:10:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0105.direct.ca ([204.244.83.5] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10JXkR-0005lF-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 23:13:15 -0800 Message-ID: <36E226BB.7CC98AD4@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 23:11:55 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: agsyn.com References: <92DB4A1207AF90D78525672C006467DD.0064D9CC8525672C@webcity> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Well said. Well said! Jane - Many thanks. Ferdinand Jane Sherry/wcdev/US wrote: > Dear Allan, > My suggestion is to ignore Greg Willis as best you can, failing that send > him some loving compassion energy through the ethers. This will do more to > calm things down than to respond to his virulent litigious nature. Having > been on the very personal receiving end of his public vitriolic attacks > more than once last year, both publicly and privately I can assure you that > my lesson learned is that to engage with such energy is to engage an > equally invested part of oneself to maintain that energy. > > Disengage and stay centered in loving compassion rather than rousing the > spiritual warrior within. There are much more worthy and important battles > to be waged. > > Regards, > Jane Sherry -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 03:15:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA27900 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:15:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA25532; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:06:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA23342 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 02:24:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0105.direct.ca ([204.244.83.5] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10JXxp-0006GF-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 23:27:05 -0800 Message-ID: <36E229F9.1CA2FC3E@direct.ca> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 23:25:45 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: list participation References: <011501be6838$a0252a00$c82985d0@donnas> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Absolutely o.k.with me. All the best Ferdinand donnas wrote: > Anita writes: > Just like in a class room, there are people > on this list serve who "sit at the front of the class" and comment on > EVERYTHING, there are some who chime in from time to time, and then > there are the "lurkers" who only participate passively. > --------------------------- > I must say that this is THE MOst active list I have ever joined. I don't > know about the rest of you , but I can't keep up with reading the posts > much less comment on any of them; and posts with links that provide > background data or more info....... Aye-yaye-eye !!! Yet , because of the > wisdom that lies therein, I desparately try to backtrack and at least skim > all of them. Hundreds of posts pile up! > I don't know how you have time to do all that is necessary on your > farms,businesses, and with your families and still have time to read all > the posts. I have no family , no outside job and only minimally what you > might call a farm, and I can tell already that very soon( as the season > begins) I won't have any time at all. > BTW: as a newcomer to the list I never formally introduced myself. > My name is Dona and I am transitioning from organic to biodynamic and > co-creative practices, in the mountains of western North Carolina. > I always think of the term, "lurker" as a negative..... and I would like > to be a member of your on-line community, but feel that I am better off for > now just keeping my mouth shut and my mind open......if that is okay. > With great appreciation for everyone's effort....... > Donaterra -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 09:14:54 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA29656 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:14:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA08026; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:05:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA07871 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:03:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.32] (pm3shep1-163-32.intrepid.net [209.190.163.32]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14854 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:05:25 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:07:10 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: SEED LIST: Ronninger's and Vermont Bean Seed Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I think we went through this a little while ago, but let me ask again: Ronninger's Potato Seed Company appears to have merged with a garlic company and become "Irish Eyes and a touch of Garlic." Looking at their catalog, I find no reference to 'organically certified seed stock,' and yet, Ms Cox in Abundant Live's "Lazy Bed Gardening" refers to Ronnigers as a source for ORGANIC seed potatoes. Does anyone know the story on this? I just (literally) inherited a large box of seed beans. (Last year near the beginning of April Claymont's master gardener was killed when he became entangled in an electric cattle fence here on the property. These are seeds that he intended to plant as the soil warmed. The other gardeners here knew Tom (I'm told that all of the salad crops that were in the garden through the summer were started and transplanted by Tom) and miss him sorely. Now that someone has made off with his car, these beans, as part of a seed-saving program, will become an on-going memorial to him and his active desire to 'grow good food for good people.") Most of these beans are from the Vermont Bean Seed Company, another company recommended by Abundant Life. Strangely, I find no mention of certification in their catalog either. Does anyone have the skinny on these "two" places? Thanks -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 09:22:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA29697 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:22:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA08500; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:13:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08393 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:11:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.32] (pm3shep3-163-131.intrepid.net [209.190.163.131]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15925 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:14:05 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:15:50 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: NZ Fence Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Someone on the list with a wealth of experience in portable fencing contacted me about this last year. I'm at a loss to remember who this was, but I've got even more questions this year. ANYONE who can answer a few questions about NZ fencing, please contact me off-line at igg@igg.com. Thanks! -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 10:01:12 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29933 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:01:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA10533; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:52:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA10328 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:48:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.19]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:51:40 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:51:04 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: SEED LIST: Ronninger's and Vermont Bean Seed Message-ID: <5336CDF098C0ECCD8525672D005152C9.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN <> Oh, goodness, Allan this is one of the more horrifying posts to come into my box this morning. Pray, tell, what happened to the death fence? I hope Claymont has opted to have a non electric fence? A living memorial garden is a wonderful thing, but if more people could have the foresight to prevent horrible deaths like this, the garden would perhaps be more suitable for a live gardener, then a memorial. Best Regards, Jane Sorry I can't answer your questions. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 10:02:21 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29948 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:02:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA10625; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:53:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA10379 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:49:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.19]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:52:48 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:52:13 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: COTS: March 06, 1999 - March 12, 1999 Message-ID: <26ABB1D1145286828525672D00519816.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id JAA10381 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Calendar of the Soul [March 06, 1999 - March 12, 1999] Forty-eighth Week (March 2-8) Within the light that out of world-wide heights Would stream with power toward the soul, May certainty of cosmic thinking Arise to solve the soul's enigmas -- And focusing its mighty rays, Awaken love in human hearts. ___________________________________ English translation by Ruth and Hans Pusch ___________________________________ Im Lichte, das aus Weltenhöhen Der Seele machtvoll fliessen will, Erscheine, Iösend Seelenrätsel Des Weltendenkens Sicherheit, Versammelnd Seiner Strahlen Macht, Im Menschenherzen Liebe weckend. ___________________________________________________________ Created for: The Steiner e.Lib by: C4 Systems, Inc. (c) 1990-1999 [1]This Calendar of the Soul Verse in HTML ___________________________________________________________ References 1. http://www.elib.com/Steiner/COTS/COTS.phtml?cots+48 -- To unsubscribe: send mail to cots-request@c4systm.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 12:19:18 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA01177 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:19:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA20347; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:10:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19980 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:07:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.19]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:10:41 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:10:04 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: life Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN <> Dear Patrick, What does that stereotype farmer look like? What do you look like? What is it that is really making you angry? Making a living is hard to reconcile with the activity of farming spiritually, or making art because you are called to it, or healing the sick because you are called to it, but we live in a world where we still do need money unless you are 'off the grid'. And being off the grid means that you don't engage with community or other folks who are on the grid. I think being a farmer in this 'cheap food' mentality/world must be terribly frustrating and the 'normal' rewards measured as 'success' by our culture simply don't exist for the most part! One would think that rewarding those who tend the earth sustainably should be a high priority and would reap all the real rewards that a culture could bestow upon them! Keep the faith! Best Regards, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 12:39:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA01434 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:39:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA21853; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:30:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA21618 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:27:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 23455 invoked from network); 7 Mar 1999 10:29:33 -0700 Received: from ts2-29.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.180) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 1999 10:29:33 -0700 Message-ID: <36E2B790.399FE4B3@cyberhighway.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:29:53 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Salmon River Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Backyard BD CSA References: <199903051916.MAA14771@wavecom.net> <36E09575.141A1FD2@cyberhighway.net> <36E221B4.72041450@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I have good soil, Ferdinand. About all I've done since I've been here is compost and plant trees! There was no decent soil to speak of when I first moved here, but this is the 9th year of composting. And this year, I have BD compost! I can't wait to see everything growing this summer! It's going to be gorgeous. Pam Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Pam, make sure you have enough GOOD compost. I do no know your soil fertility, > however, if you do not have access to good compost (and you can still inoculate it > now) your enterprise may be hard pressed. And then, make seed tests. Check those > 'darn' seeds for germination. I am telling you, I have bought a lot of 'well > meant and natural' seeds and they often had only a 10% germination. Can be tough > in a bed of carrots or radishes. > > Once you have a crop, don't worry, the rest will (almost) go by itself. Regards > Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 12:40:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA01455 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:40:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA21980; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:31:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA21661 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:28:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp249.cy-net.net [208.21.195.58]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA08852 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:30:20 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE688C.A7EEAE60@FLYLO>; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:21:33 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE688C.A7EEAE60@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'bdnow@envirolink.org'" Subject: RE: life Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:21:32 -0600 Encoding: 25 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Jane: Sadly, it seems just the opposite is true. Invariably, when I fill out a form, or send in a resume I describe my life work as 'farm manager'. When the interviewer finds out we own the farm, they write 'UNEMPLOYED' in the appropriate box. Working temporary, no matter how little pay or menial the job, the offices are usually more open and accepting of whatever it is I want to do. Interesting enough, a few years ago, we went for a farm loan for fence repair. Didn't get the loan and now I'm glad, (fences are still a wreck, but I don't owe the bank anything.) The REASON we were turned down? The loan officer suggested that had we put 'home improvement/ house renovation' we would have been granted it, but they look at farmers as bad risks. replying to: <> Keep the faith! Best Regards, Jane From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 12:44:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA01553 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:44:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA22476; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:36:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22297 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:34:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from av204@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <32737-675>; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:36:23 -0400 Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:36:23 -0400 (AST) Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org From: Joan Macdonald To: biodynamics Subject: Re: OFF GMO'S Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BE6886.4A313DC0" Content-ID: Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org X-Sender: av204@chebucto.ns.ca X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BE6886.4A313DC0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Content-ID: Hi All; This came through my homeopathy list, I have been sending on all the GMO posts sent to BDNOW to them. They appreciate the info, as the do not have time to surf for such data. --Joan Macdonald Halifax, Nova Scotia PS The first day of the Free Homeopathy Clinic went very well, now are waiting for more to pop up across the country. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- URGENT ACTION ALERT! WE NEED 1,000,000 SIGNATURES ON OUR PETITION THIS YEAR TO SAVE OUR FOOD SUPPLY! HAVE YOU SIGNED THIS PETITION YET? CONSUMER RIGHT TO KNOW - TO WASHINGTON IN '99 CAMPAIGN PETITION TO SECURE THE MANDATORY LABELING OF ALL GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOODS Submitted to the President of the United States, Congress, USDA and FDA New substances are being introduced into our foods via a technology called genetic engineering. A growing number of scientists and physicians are voicing concern over the possible health and environmental risks from these foods. Current laws and policies do not require the food industry to label these new genetically engineered foods. Without labels consumers lose the freedom to choose what they will eat and feed their families. This petition upholds the right of consumers to make informed choices. As a citizen of the United States of America, I strongly urge the passage of legislation and policies to mandate the clear and accurate labeling of all foods derived from, processed with, containing or consisting of genetically engineered organisms before they are released into any and all commercial markets. TO SIGN JUST SEND THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE TO ge-mail@lofthouse.com NOW: "Add my name to the Consumer Right to Know Petition for the mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods." MAKE SURE TO INCLUDE YOUR NAME, ADDRESS AND DATE AND SEND IT OFF TO: ge-mail@lofthouse.com. Names will only be used for this petition, not for other mailings or commercial purposes. For more information, hard copies of the petition and for friends without email to sign, call toll-free: 1 877 REAL FOOD (1-877-732-5366) or visit the Mothers for Natural Law web site http://www.safe-food.org Our goal is to get ONE MILLION SIGNATURES THIS YEAR! Please sign today and forward this message to everyone you know, preferably with a personal note on top that says something like: I thought you would want to know about this. I hope you'll sign and forward this message ASAP. Thank you. P.S. If you feel your name will add credibility/visibility to this undertaking - and you are willing to add it to our public VIP petition, please email your name, title, affiliation, address, credentials to laura@safe-food.org END ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BE6886.4A313DC0-- From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 13:00:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA01689 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:00:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA24066; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:51:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.infohouse.com (mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23546 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:47:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from cds1y.webcity ([204.143.224.19]) by mail.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-53521U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:50:17 -0500 From: Jane Sherry/wcdev/US Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:49:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Fiddling While Antarctica Burns (From the NYTImes) Message-ID: <583C84953D0400458525672D0061E278.0000000000000000@webcity> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN New York Times: March 7, 1999 Fiddling While Antarctica Burns By DAVID HELVARG I am glad to count myself among the handful of Washington reporters who missed the impeachment trial of the President. I was off covering a far more important story in Antarctica. My trip convinced me that a hundred years from now Americans will look back at late-20th-century scientific research done in places like Antarctica and wonder how society could have been distracted by the sexual misadventures of a politician. For the past 30 years climatologists have predicted that global warming would occur most rapidly at the poles, a fact now confirmed by scientists in Alaska, Canada and Greenland, at the North Pole and on the Antarctic Peninsula. The peninsula is a 700-mile-long rocky kite tail curving out from the coldest, driest, highest continent on earth. The peninsula is also, as I discovered, a wildlife-rich habitat undergoing a frighteningly rapid change. At Palmer Station, one of three Antarctic bases administered by the National Science Foundation, I spoke with the chief scientist, Bill Frasier, who has been studying the Antarctic climate since 1974. "When I was a graduate student, we were told that climate change occurs but we'd never see the effects in our lifetime," Dr. Frasier told me. "But in the last 20 years I've seen tremendous changes. I've seen islands pop out from under glaciers; I've seen species changing places and landscape ecology altered." While global temperatures have, on average, warmed by 1 degree Fahrenheit over the last century -- paralleling increased industrial output of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases -- the Antarctic Peninsula has seen a jump of more than 5 degrees in just 50 years, including an incredible 10-degree average warming during its winter months. As a result, huge pieces of the ice shelf -- some sections are as large as the state of Delaware -- have begun calving off its eastern shore. And scientists are now discussing the possibility that the adjacent Western Antarctic Ice Sheet could experience a sudden meltdown, raising global sea levels by more than 15 feet over the next century (instead of one to three feet, as currently predicted). That event could, among other things, turn the Trump Tower mezzanine into waterfront property. While most experts believe this melting will occur sometime after the 21st century, by the time they know for sure it will probably be too late to do anything about it. Today's warming poses a more immediate threat to Antarctica's abundant wildlife. And here, too, there are implications that extend to the rest of the world, researchers told me. Tiny shrimplike creatures called krill -- the most abundant animal on earth in terms of their total biomass -- are the broad base of Antarctica's food chain, consumed in vast quantities by penguins, seals and whales. (A single blue whale eats four tons a day.) Without access to sea ice, krill shrink, lose weight and are vulnerable to early death. A decline of krill due to melting of the ice shelf could wreck much of the Antarctic ecosystem that depends on them. Rising temperatures also increase precipitation -- which, in Antarctica, takes the form of snow. Excessive spring snow has disrupted the nesting and breeding of Adelie penguins, leading to the extinction of many of their colonies. At the same time, more adaptable species like chinstrap penguins, elephant seals and fur seals are increasing their numbers, threatening to displace sea ice- dependent animals like Weddell seals, crabeater seals and leopard seals. What these changes in the Antarctic Peninsula suggest is that rapid warming could speed up a global chain reaction of extinctions that -- thanks to the impact of humans -- is already under way. "Weedlike" species that are highly adaptable to disrupted habitat (pigeons, rats, deer and elephant seals) will displace more specialized creatures (tigers, monarch butterflies, river dolphins and Adelie penguins) that depend on unique ecosystems like tropical rain forests, coral reefs and the Antarctic ice shelf. Rising temperatures may kill off certain plant species as well. At Palmer Station, I met Tad Day, a plant biologist who studies Antarctica's only two flowering plants: hairgrass and pearlwort. He has found that warming improves growth of pearlwort but appears to have a negative impact on hairgrass. Hairgrass, which was the dominant species in Antarctica, is now being displaced by pearlwort, a mosslike plant. "Global warming," Dr. Day told me, "has the capacity to shift the competitive balance of species in ways that, until we get out there and do the research, we don't understand yet, and that could have important consequences on our ability to produce food and fiber." Increasingly reliable climate models now predict a 2-to-6-degree planetary warming in the next century, with regional shifts in agriculture that will favor the industrial north at the expense of the poorer nations of Africa and Latin America. There will also be increases in extreme weather events, coastal storms and the spread of tropical diseases. In that light, the work of Antarctic scientists like the ones I met suggests that -- for better or worse -- environmental change will define much of the politics of the 21st century, whether in Washington or at the South Pole. David Helvarg is a television documentary producer and the author of ``The War Against the Greens.'' From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 13:02:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA01709 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:02:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA24510; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:54:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.better.net (mail.better.net [207.245.208.132]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24316 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:52:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from better.net ([209.112.3.20]) by mail.better.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 1-666L) with ESMTP id AAA602 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:49:36 -0500 Message-ID: <36E2C44C.F9514E85@better.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 13:24:13 -0500 From: Maltman Family X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Subject: Re BD in Arizona Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Does anyone on the list practice BD near Phoenix or Tempe in AZ? I shall be staying with friends there Mar. 15 to 21, and would love to connect with BD listers... Sue Maltman Toronto maojiemin@better.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 13:11:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA01847 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:11:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25420; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:03:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.txcyber.com (root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25139 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:00:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp249.cy-net.net [208.21.195.58]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11807 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:02:49 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6891.3158C380@FLYLO>; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:54:02 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6891.3158C380@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'Biodynamic Now'" Subject: Off topic and long: The Men in Our Lives Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:54:00 -0600 Encoding: 53 TEXT Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN this isn't the place to post this, but it's a thread that needs to be 'aired'. the men in our lives are dying. The number of widows far outnumber widowers right now, and the figures are expected to get even worse. Why? What is this trend telling the world? Do farmers and gardeners who practice sustainable agriculture and biodynamics have longer lives? A part of it is the penalty for having to be primary breadwinner for a family. If he lives alone, he ordinarily isn't too worried about how the food he eats will sustain him nutritionally. And, most wives, to 'reward' their husbands, (and to show their own value as home makers) tend to cook over-rich foods as well. And the other thing is that on retirement, if a man's only outside pursuit was his job, he quite often retires to an early grave. Farmers in general, just don't retire. Mentally they have to stay sharper, and the actual physical labor effects may be what 'age' them, but it's also what may be keeping them young. The question was asked, do you have to be 'old' to be a biodynamic farmer, and I would hope that the younger a person is who embraces it, the longer he / she is able to be 'old' and viable. Several of my neighbors are in the 90 yr old realm and still working their land. (with help come calving time, or help getting machinery hooked up, but they still know when it's time to plow and plant, and other 'minor details'.) Jane brought out a point. If a goal of biodynamics is to enrich the soil and leave your land a better place than you found it, then shouldn't a part of that goal be to care for yourself as honorable? As usual, this isn't coming out right, but I'm thinking out loud and would like input on this thread. Where I'm going with this is I'm not sure we can do much about GE plants until we do something about the way food is actually consumed. Overall, Americans don't eat because they're hungry, mostly it's empty calories taken as reward, or because it's just that time of day. A mother may stop at a fast food joint after school, and rush home to make dinner from a mix, and the family also expects some late night snacks too. At the offices I work in, people groan if they have to go from 10am to noon before they can eat again. They drink little water, going for caffeine in sodas or coffee instead. They shop the frozen food aisles rather than the produce bins. At the end of a long life of this 'abuse', men die off, and women have large health problems they have to deal with alone. When Whole Foods came out with the 'labeling' statement about handling the way they sell their products, I think they realize that even if the store is considered nutritionally focused, the shelves would rapidly empty if GE foods weren't on them. Because of the way people expect to cook, (out of a box), and genetically altered foods are grown for mass consumption and commercialization (out of a box). Had the owner taken a different approach, he may have been a key element in overall improvement of the way Americans eat. (martha) From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 13:30:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA01972 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:30:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA27205; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:21:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA27017 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:19:22 -0500 (EST) From: PatandLiz@aol.com Received: from PatandLiz@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hMVRa02657 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:20:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <63c79737.36e2c37d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:20:45 EST To: BDnow@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: re:life Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN >Interesting enough, a few years ago, we went for a farm loan for fence repair. Didn't get the loan and now I'm glad, (fences are still a wreck, but I don't owe the bank anything.) The REASON we were turned down? The loan officer suggested that had we put 'home improvement/ house renovation' we would have been granted it, but they look at farmers as bad risks. It is true. When we went to the lender I was advised to be called a landscaper instead of a farmer. It feels like discrimination to me. Banks are not out there for positive social change. Frustrated is a better way to desribe the way I feel. At any rate, we got a loan and will pay the piper. Thanks all for your replies, Patrick From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 13:44:39 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA02091 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:44:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA28949; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:35:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA28618 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:33:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem109.digisys.net [205.138.110.158]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07946 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:35:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36E2C6D2.CFE43C95@digisys.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 11:34:58 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: list participation References: <011501be6838$a0252a00$c82985d0@donnas> <36E229F9.1CA2FC3E@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Of course it's ok. Pat Hironimus > donnas wrote: > > and I would like > > to be a member of your on-line community, but feel that I am better off for > > now just keeping my mouth shut and my mind open......if that is okay. > > With great appreciation for everyone's effort....... > > Donaterra > > -- > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 14:14:52 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02591 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:14:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA02121; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:06:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01829 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:03:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0207.direct.ca ([204.244.83.23] helo=direct.ca) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10JisI-00052Q-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:06:07 -0800 Message-ID: <36E2CDD6.6C549373@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 11:04:54 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Backyard BD CSA References: <199903051916.MAA14771@wavecom.net> <36E09575.141A1FD2@cyberhighway.net> <36E221B4.72041450@direct.ca> <36E2B790.399FE4B3@cyberhighway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Pam, dear Pam, also get a truck load of cow manure or good horse manure for the heavy feeding crop such as (if you plant them) corn, squash, cabbage etc. etc. Love Ferdinand Pam DeTray wrote: > I have good soil, Ferdinand. About all I've done since I've been here is compost and plant > trees! There was no decent soil to speak of when I first moved here, but this is the 9th year > of composting. And this year, I have BD compost! I can't wait to see everything growing this > summer! It's going to be gorgeous. > Pam > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Pam, make sure you have enough GOOD compost. I do no know your soil fertility, > > however, if you do not have access to good compost (and you can still inoculate it > > now) your enterprise may be hard pressed. And then, make seed tests. Check those > > 'darn' seeds for germination. I am telling you, I have bought a lot of 'well > > meant and natural' seeds and they often had only a 10% germination. Can be tough > > in a bed of carrots or radishes. > > > > Once you have a crop, don't worry, the rest will (almost) go by itself. Regards > > Ferdinand -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 14:20:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02628 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:20:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA02775; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:11:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA02558 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:10:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 13294 invoked from network); 7 Mar 1999 12:12:55 -0700 Received: from ts2-29.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.180) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 1999 12:12:55 -0700 Message-ID: <36E2CFC9.DBB9421B@cyberhighway.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 12:13:16 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Salmon River Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Backyard BD CSA References: <199903051916.MAA14771@wavecom.net> <36E09575.141A1FD2@cyberhighway.net> <36E221B4.72041450@direct.ca> <36E2B790.399FE4B3@cyberhighway.net> <36E2CDD6.6C549373@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN The trick is to find manure without hormones, additives, etc. This is traditional cattle ranching country. All cows raised to be good Republicans. :) Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > Pam, dear Pam, also get a truck load of cow manure or good horse manure for the heavy feeding > crop such as (if you plant them) corn, squash, cabbage etc. etc. Love Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 14:32:49 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02932 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:32:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA04168; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:23:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03717 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:20:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0207.direct.ca ([204.244.83.23] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Jj8Z-0001tR-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:22:55 -0800 Message-ID: <36E2D1C7.A14EB393@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 11:21:43 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BD Discussion Group Bio-Dynamics Subject: SEED TESTING Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Questions were asked: Why and how. Here a short answer: If you do not depend on the germination of your seeds i.e. if you seed them for fun on your balcony, it really does not matter much whether you have an harvest of 10 or 100 radishes. The planter won't take that many anyhow. In a garden, where you depend on 100 radishes (or at least 90 or thereabouts) it can mean: going to the bank for a bridging loan at the end of the year if only 10% of your seeds sprout and grow. Perhaps not of a radish crop failure, but when you have a field of corn or beets etc. then it is tough. It many cases you do not have that many possibilities to reseed again. Last year we had to re-seed THREE times (in our garden) and whereas we had one seed failure, the second was a bird attack. Our black birds just love the fresh corn shoots and within 2 hours a field is gone. We learned to establish fishing nets in the garden and the birds did not like this at all as they had to dive inbetween the nets. Beforehand, they went in for quickies (in and out) destroy a few shoots, eat the sweet stuff and disappear. That was made impossible with (old) fishing nets. Sprouting tests: Take 100 seeds and put them into a Petry Dish in which you placed a round blotting paper. Wet the blotting paper, yet, keep it all in the shade. Observe and note 1. day................... no germination, 2. day................... no germination 3. day...................5 (%), 4. day ..............9(%) and so forth. (The speed with which they germinate depends upon what you test of course). But you may have seeds that may germinate 87% yet, so slowly and so weakly that it amounts to a crop failure. In this connection, check your germination time and see on what day (Star Calendar) you started the test (Flower-, Root-, Leaf-, Fruit- day) and repeat on a same day. Make sure that your water is free of chlorine and other germ killers. I think best is Aqua Destillatum (at least it is neutral) but void of life (in this context it is permitted). Regards Ferdinand PS Please add your thoughts and findings, most welcome!!!!!!!!!! -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 14:59:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03220 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:59:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA07030; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:50:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06613 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:47:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0207.direct.ca ([204.244.83.23] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10JjYB-0001r5-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:49:24 -0800 Message-ID: <36E2D7FB.6BD1ED0A@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 11:48:11 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Backyard BD CSA References: <199903051916.MAA14771@wavecom.net> <36E09575.141A1FD2@cyberhighway.net> <36E221B4.72041450@direct.ca> <36E2B790.399FE4B3@cyberhighway.net> <36E2CDD6.6C549373@direct.ca> <36E2CFC9.DBB9421B@cyberhighway.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dear Pam, Hormones are not so much of a problem IF you use the Preparations. They will break down (we had it tested at least for hormones known to have been given to cattle). However, what may be more of a problem are sprays such as fungicydes or creosots, copper sulfates, lead, .....mycines, de-wormers etc. etc. You may be permitted to collect manure on the field(s), the ranch, and there, you may get fairly good manure still. I am a bit concerned that you may not get enough N. If you have grown a cover crop such as winter rye or even clover, you may be home free. Higher altitudes (such as yours) make the nitrogen 'run away' into the air fairly fast. I know this from the Swiss Alps. For Swiss mountain gardeners (like my brother-in-law was..... unfortunately, his health could not take it any longer as the farm owner made life too hard on him) for mountain gardeners, the manuring challenge is there. Goat manure, if you can get, is very good or Llama (which, incidentally made it possible that the Andes could produce potatoes....). If you have free running horses up there, get the manure, inculated it still now and then, in 2 months you can start planting. For heavy feeders of course. How about that? All the best Ferdinand Pam DeTray wrote: > The trick is to find manure without hormones, additives, etc. This is traditional cattle ranching > country. All cows raised to be good Republicans. :) > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Pam, dear Pam, also get a truck load of cow manure or good horse manure for the heavy feeding > > crop such as (if you plant them) corn, squash, cabbage etc. etc. Love Ferdinand -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FRIENDS: To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.), 1999 is: MY YEAR OF THE COW. Please, e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I thank you for your help. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 15:17:51 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03465 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:17:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09006; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:08:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from wavecom.net (root@wave.sheridan.wy.us [206.54.116.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08646 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:05:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from dbrown.wavecom.net (sher32.wavecom.net [206.54.116.117]) by wavecom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA22609 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 12:57:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199903071957.MAA22609@wavecom.net> From: "Audrey Malan" To: Subject: Re: Backyard BD CSA Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:08:25 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Pam, where do you live? - Audrey ---------- > From: Pam DeTray > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > Subject: Re: Backyard BD CSA > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 11:13 AM > > The trick is to find manure without hormones, additives, etc. This is traditional cattle ranching > country. All cows raised to be good Republicans. :) > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > Pam, dear Pam, also get a truck load of cow manure or good horse manure for the heavy feeding > > crop such as (if you plant them) corn, squash, cabbage etc. etc. Love Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 15:26:16 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03562 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:26:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09991; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:17:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA09837 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:16:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 27742 invoked from network); 7 Mar 1999 13:18:35 -0700 Received: from ts2-42.llj.cyberhighway.net (HELO cyberhighway.net) (209.161.18.193) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 1999 13:18:35 -0700 Message-ID: <36E2DF2D.DAD03C37@cyberhighway.net> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 13:18:58 -0700 From: Pam DeTray Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Salmon River Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Backyard BD CSA References: <199903071957.MAA22609@wavecom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Along the Salmon River in Idaho. Audrey Malan wrote: > Pam, where do you live? - Audrey > > ---------- > > From: Pam DeTray > > To: bdnow@envirolink.org > > Subject: Re: Backyard BD CSA > > Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 11:13 AM > > > > The trick is to find manure without hormones, additives, etc. This is > traditional cattle ranching > > country. All cows raised to be good Republicans. :) > > > > Ferdinand Vondruska wrote: > > > > > Pam, dear Pam, also get a truck load of cow manure or good horse manure > for the heavy feeding > > > crop such as (if you plant them) corn, squash, cabbage etc. etc. Love > Ferdinand From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 15:50:22 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03787 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:50:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12600; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:41:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from Rt66.com (mack.rt66.com [198.59.162.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12424 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:39:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from RT66.com (pmh23.rt66.com [204.134.97.143]) by Rt66.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA04625 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:42:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36E2E3F2.BC393208@RT66.com> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 13:39:14 -0700 From: Thomas Schley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Bees and wool References: <199903051916.MAA14771@wavecom.net> <36E09575.141A1FD2@cyberhighway.net> <36E221B4.72041450@direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dear List, Let me introduce myself and put forward a question. I am not a farmer, only a middling gardener (I grew up on a fish farm and have raised salmon and trout). Presently I am living in northern New Mexico. Here is the question. I am signed up to attend a workshop on bees (a course associated with the local Permaculture folks) in central NM. They ask that we do not wear wool during the time we work with the bees, stating that bees do not like wool. Can anyone comment on this? Does Steiner mention this? Perhaps this is just common knowledge among beekeepers, but I am wondering what its basis is from a practical and esoteric point of view. BTW this has been our driest season here since the 1950s (probably the warmest too). We could use some of Ferdinand's snow. It seems tha La Nina shifts all the moisture northward. Only the extreme northern mountains on the Colorado border have been getting snow. This evening's forecast sounds hopefull: snow/rain tonight. Thanks for listening, Tom From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 16:26:20 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04274 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:26:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA16122; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:17:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15620 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:13:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from [151.196.116.67] (client-151-196-116-67.bellatlantic.net [151.196.116.67]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA16036; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:15:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903072115.QAA16036@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 16:15:51 -0500 Subject: Query on goats for BD CSA From: "Steven McFadden" To: BD now CC: Deb Denome Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi, I'm passing on a quary for Deb Denome of Seeking Common Ground, near Rochester, NY. She's not on this list, but would like some advice. They want to get a goat or goats for the CSA, and would like recommendations on breeds. Also "I'm most interested in BD perspectives on: castrating male goats when to wean babies and what to feed milking does I'd be happy to correspond with experienced folks directly once I know who they are. so, if you've got some insight you'd like to pass on, post it to the list or send it to me and I'll see that it gets on up to Rochester -- even though it's buried under over 4 feet of recent snow. Best, Steven From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 18:02:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06189 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:02:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA29414; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:53:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29015 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:51:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d146.infoserve.net [199.175.157.146]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA10282; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:56:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000801be68ed$50f31b80$929dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: "curtis lange" Cc: Subject: Fw: OFF/ GEN3-7 Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:53:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -----Original Message----- From: Richard Wolfson To: info@natural-law.ca Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 2:06 PM Subject: GEN3-7 >posted by: MichaelP > >INDEPENDENT (Sunday) March 8 > >I was right, says GM row scientist > >ALARMING evidence that eating genetically modified (GM) food may harm >health is to be presented to MPs tomorrow, writes Geoffrey Lean. The >previously suppressed research by Dr Arpad Pusztai shows vital organs may >be damaged and immune systems weakened, making epidemics worse and >increasing cancer. > >The research, to be submitted to the House of Commons Select Committee on >Science and Technology, is likely to reignite the controversy over Dr >Pusztai, of Aberdeen's Rowett Research Institute, who sparked a fierce >scientific and political row last month. > >Until now the dispute has centred on only skimpy accounts of his research, >funded by the Scottish Office, because his data - based on 10,000 samples >from rats fed GM and ordinary potatoes - were "confiscated" and his >computer sealed when he made his concerns known on television last summer. >Dr Pusztai was suspended, forced into retirement, and his research stopped. > >He has only now recovered the evidence and subjected it to independent >analysis for the first time. He will not give details before the results >are seen by MPs, but says they broadly confirm his preliminary findings. > >================= >INDEPENDENT (Sunday) March 8 > >How I told the truth and was sacked > > >By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Correspondent > >NO ONE, says Dr Arpad Pusztai, could have been more surprised to find rats >he had given genetically modified (GM) food developing alarming >ill-effects. He had been "a very enthusiastic supporter" of the technology, >and fully expected his experiments to give it "a clean bill of health", he >said. > >"I was totally taken aback; no doubt about it," he told the Independent on >Sunday last week. "I was absolutely confident I wouldn't find anything. But >the longer I spent on the experiments, the more uneasy I became." > >His unexpected findings have landed him, bewildered, in one of the hottest >scientific controversies for years. They have abruptly ended his career, >and destroyed his international reputation. He was magisterially rebuked by >a score of Britain's most august Fellows of the Royal Society, attacked by >a collaborator on the study, and accused by Sir Robert May, the >Government's respected Chief Scientific Adviser, of violating "every canon >of scientific rectitude". Only now is he able to reply. > >I spent nearly six hours with him in his modest semi-detached home in >Aberdeen on Wednesday, as he told his side of the story in full for the >first time. He is a small, vital man - grey-faced with the strain (he has >recently had a minor heart attack which he ascribes to it), but retaining a >self-deprecating humour - he spoke of the "intolerable burden" of being >unable to clear his name. > >>From the day after he briefly mentioned some of his findings on television >>in August until three weeks ago, he was bound to confidentiality by his >>employer for 37 years, Aberdeen's Rowett Research Institute. Since then he >>has been preparing to make his case before the House of Commons Select >>Committee on Science and Technology tomorrow. > >"All I need is a chance," he said. "For the past seven months I haven't had >one. I could not even defend myself against very heinous accusations. >Sometimes I felt I should just get on a plane and go away. I couldn't take >it." > >It has been a devastating end to a brilliant career. He is the son of a >Hungarian wartime resistance hero and fled when the 1956 rising was >suppressed. But he had published his first scientific papers while still at >university, and the Ford Foundation found him in an Austrian refugee camp. >They gave him a scholarship to study anywhere in the world he chose. > >He picked Britain, partly "because I knew I was an odd sort of guy, and the >country then had a certain tolerance". He was recruited to the Institute in >1963 personally by Dr Richard Synge, a Nobel prizewinner in chemistry. > >Dr Pusztai, 68, has published 270 scientific papers, and the Institute >acknowledges he became "probably the world's expert" on lectins, proteins >used in genetic modification. So valuable was his work he was asked to stay >on after retirement age. > >His nemesis began in 1995, when his group beat 27 contenders to win a #1.6m >Scottish Office contract to test the effects of GM foods. He was >particularly interested because he could find only one previous >peer-reviewed study on feeding them to animals. It was led by a scientist >from Monsanto, the controversial GM company, and found no ill-effects. > >Dr Pusztai fed rats on two strains of potatoes genetically engineered with >a lectin from snowdrop bulbs, a third with the snowdrop lectin simply added >and a fourth of ordinary potatoes. > >He has been repeatedly accused by top politicians and scientists of merely >adding a poison to potatoes. But he says he spent six years up to 1990 >proving the snowdrop lectin was safe, even at high concentrations - and it >is due to his work that it is used in genetic engineering at all. > >To his surprise he found the immune systems and brains, livers, kidneys and >other vital organs of the rats fed the GM potatoes were damaged, but not >those of the rats fed the ordinary ones or those simply spiked with the >lectin. This, he says, suggests the genetic modification could be largely >to blame. > >By last summer, he says, the Scottish Office money was running out, and the >Institute refused funding. He therefore agreed to appear in a World in >Action documentary, with the Institute's support, to raise the profile of >the work in the hope of attracting funds. He says the Institute's press >officer sat through the interview and no objection had been raised to what >he had said in the seven weeks before screening on 10 August last year. > >He was "absolutely surprised" his brief comments hit the headlines, but the >Institute put out press releases supporting him the same day, and the next. >But on 12 August he was suspended from work on the experiments. The study >was stopped. > >He worked out his contract until the end of the year, but found himself >"sent to Coventry" by his colleagues. His computers were "sealed" and all >his data from the experiments "confiscated". Dr Pusztai was forced into >retirement. > >An audit committee of four scientists, set up by the Institute, reviewed >his work and disagreed with his conclusions. He says he was given three >days to write a reply, without access to his full data. > >This reply, which the Institute put on the internet, has been attacked as >"unpublishable". He agrees and says this is hardly surprising given the >limitations. He has also been condemned for not publishing a refereed >scientific paper in the normal way. He says this was impossible without >access to the complete data, which he has only just recovered. > >Martin Polden, of the law firm Ross and Craig and president of the >Environmental Law Foundation, who has taken up Dr Pusztai's case, says this >is "a classic case for the need for openness in science". The Institute >says it has nothing to add to previous statements. > >Dr Pusztai insists: "I believe in the technology. But it is too new for us >to be absolutely sure that what we are doing is right. But I can say from >my experience if anyone dares to say anything even slightly contra- >indicative, they are vilified and totally destroyed." > >But surely others will do the same research elsewhere? "It would have to be >a very strong person. If I, with my international reputation, can be >destroyed, who will stand up?" > >=========== > > >** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is >distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in >receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. ** > > >.......... > >next article posted by MichaelP > >London TIMES March 5 1999 > >WATER companies are demanding a moratorium on the commercial planting of >genetically modified crops amid fears that chemicals used on them may >pollute rivers, lakes and reservoirs. > >The water industry fears that widespread planting of herbicide-tolerant >crops, such as oil seed rape and sugar beet, might lead to problems in >meeting the strict legal limits on the levels of individual weed and >pest-killing chemicals in drinking water. The companies are concerned that >they may face multimillion-pound bills to put in herbicide removal >technologies at water treatment works. > >A spokesman for Water UK, the industry's body, said: "We have genuine >concerns about the widespread use of crops which rely on just two >chemicals, so we favour a go-slow, a moratorium. We need time to find the >answers. We need several years." An industry team of environmental and >scientific experts is to meet for the first time this month, to investigate >the possible effect on drinking water. English Nature, the Government's >wildlife advisers, has called for a three to five-year moratorium. > >.......... > >next 2 articles posted by Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) > >IRRESISTIBLE FORCE, IMMOVABLE OBJECT > (St. Louis Post-Dispatch; 03/01/99) > > >BIOENGINEERING > >As the forces driving the biotechnology revolution advance upon the >citizens of the world, they are being thwarted by powerful counter-forces: >ignorance, fear and legitimate skepticism. > >This should no longer come as a shock to **Monsanto**, the United States >and other countries with huge political clout and financial stakes in the >biotechnology revolution. The uproar over genetically engineered crops in >Europe and Asia should have taught them by now that they can't outmuscle an >uninformed, properly skeptical public. After all, they're messing with the >world's food supply, using technology most people don't understand. > > >People fear what they don't understand. And to most of the public, >including Americans, the principles and methods of biotechnology are a >cipher. The public has a right to be skeptical about biotechnology. Its >cultural, economic and unintended biological consequences could be as >profound and far-reaching. > >Bullying and strong-arming are not the way to build public confidence in >new technology or the people selling it. Nor is it the way to address the >legitimate need to protect human health, cultural continuity and the >Earth's biodiversity. Yet that is precisely the behavior that the United >States and five other countries displayed at negotiations sponsored by the >United Nations last week in Cartagena, Columbia. > >The purpose of the negotiations, attended by delegates from 138 countries, >was to write a "biosafety protocol," a set of rules to regulate the global >trade of genetically modified organisms. About 90 percent of the current >world trade in genetically modified foods involves corn and soy beans. The >negotiations grew out of the 1996 U.N. Convention on Biological Diversity, >an agreement that calls for protecting varieties of plants and animals. The >United States is the only major country in the world that refused to sign >the agreement. > >The U.S. and other major grain exporters staked out a position that puts >economic gain ahead of environmental and health concerns. At the Colombian >conference they insisted that genetically modified grains and drugs be >exempt from rules. They also objected to: liability provisions in case of >an environmental accident; strict labeling requirements on products made >from genetically modified organisms and any rules that might interfere with >the booming international trade. > >For large companies like **Monsanto** and its Swiss-based rival, Novartis, >biotechnology is the future of its products and prosperity. They say such >products also hold the promise of a better future for the poor in >developing countries. There, crops modified to produce higher yields could >feed more hungry people on shrinking amounts of arable land. Clearly, the >potential for good is enormous. > >But good for whom? Some skeptics fear that a few large companies holding >the patents to genetically modified organisms could control much of the >world production of staple food crops. That is a legitimate concern. Others >worry about the safety of foods made from genetically modified organisms. >Developing countries don't want to be dumping grounds for foods with >untested new gene traits, and they resent American pushiness. They worry >what will happen if certain engineered traits, such as pest resistance, >accidentally spread to other crops. Could it cause an ecological disaster? >If so, who is held responsible for the damage, and how can it be undone? > > >The business of weighing risks and benefits is enormously complex. Neither >side in the biotechnology debate has anything to gain the longer the public >lacks the capacity to assess its benefits and risks. > >It would be foolish to let those with financial and political self-interest >in genetically modified organisms make the rules about their use. > > >In fact, the American public and the citizens of the world won't stand for >it. We don't like being muscled by corporations impatient for returns on >their investments in biotechnology. We don't need "public perception >campaigns" and sales pitches to prepare the way for genetically modified >foods. > >What we need is basic scientific education to help us learn more of the >brilliant promise of biotechnology. We need to have enough information to >ask the right questions about its potential for harm. We need to find ways >to assess risk. We need more carefully controlled studies of genetically >modified organisms. We need rational regulatory mechanisms - local, >national and global - > that ensure human health and environmental safety. We need trade >regulations that preserve economic stability. We need more public >discussion of biotechnology in the U.N. and at the local library. > > >They can start the biotech revolution without us. But without us it will fail. > >(Copyright 1999) > >........ > >Consumers wise to the real GM agenda > >John Gray, Guardian International, 3 March 1999 > >THE Blair government's defence of genetically modified food marks a >watershed in its history. Over the past few weeks it has had to confront an >inconvenient truth. The global free market has become a political liability. > >In what is likely to be a pattern in British politics over the coming >years, the initiative now lies with parties and pressure groups that voice >the public's reasonable fears about the costs and risks of global >capitalism. Over the past month the imperatives of global markets have >been on a collision course with public opinion. British consumers do not >want GM food and it is proving impossible to persuade them that they do. > >Only last week the Advertising Standards Authority ruled that GM food >advertising by the biotechnology giant Monsanto was misleading. However, >the finding is not likely to have much effect on the long-term future of >such products in Britain.The public believes that scientific knowledge of >the effects of GM food is in its infancy. Rightly, it suspects that little >is known of its risks to human health and next to nothing about its effects >on the environment. There is a deep-seated public view that, given these >limitations, it is better to be safe than sorry. > >Pooh-poohing the risks of GM food has proved to be self-defeating. The >British electorate is notably resistant to the combination of wide-eyed >techno-utopianism and stock market-fuelled greed that, together with >incessant lobbying by the genetic-industrial complex, has effectively >stifled debate on genetic engineering in the United States. > >It is unwilling to defer to the authority of politicians who tell them they >are ignorant, hysterical and blind to undreamt-of prospects of progress. >This is something even the benighted Tories have understood. > >_________________________________________________________ >Richard Wolfson, PhD >Consumer Right to Know Campaign, >for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term >Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, >500 Wilbrod Street >Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 >tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 >email: rwolfson@concentric.net > >Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html >contains more information on genetic engineering as well as >previous genetic engineering news items >Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months >See website for details. >__________________________________________________________ >__________________________________________________________ > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 20:35:19 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA07832 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:35:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA18594; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:25:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from dns1.mcn.org (root@dns1.mcn.org [204.189.12.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA18326 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:23:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from 204.189.12.237 (ha-4e-men-m033.mcn.org [204.189.12.237]) by dns1.mcn.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA04070 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:26:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36E2B7A2.5B6E@mcn.org> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 17:30:10 +0000 From: Kate Clarke Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Foxglove Farm (707) 937-4116 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Query on goats for BD CSA References: <199903072115.QAA16036@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Steven McFadden wrote: > > Hi, I'm passing on a quary for Deb Denome of Seeking Common Ground, near > Rochester, NY. She's not on this list, but would like some advice. > > They want to get a goat or goats for the CSA, and would like recommendations > on breeds. > > Also "I'm most interested in BD > perspectives on: castrating male goats > when to wean babies and what to feed milking does > I'd be happy to correspond with experienced folks directly once I know who > they are. > > so, if you've got some insight you'd like to pass on, post it to the list or > send it to me and I'll see that it gets on up to Rochester -- even though > it's buried under over 4 feet of recent snow. > > Best, Steven Dear Steven, Greetings from Northern California. Nubian goats are gentle, kind creatures and provide a rich milk, very tasty, for all uses. Here at Foxglove Farm we keep no bucks, as the odor destroys the good taste. Nubians have a higher fat content and that helps with the texture of the milk. People are use to cows and years ago in Southwest Wa. my first herd was the talk of the small town as I offered free vegies to anyone who could tell the difference. We do not dis bud, and the babies are botle feed right away with moms milk naturally. I am dearly in need of a BD Calandar of the Souls and cannot afford anything. Could someone send me a calandar of copies of the months, March April and May. With CSA sales just beginning and the forty thou scraped together to purchase this land I NEED HELP OUT THERE! I will trade all advice and that is twenty years experience, for strawberry, rasberry and other soft fruits. I also make a beautiful Cal. bay and herbal wreath, shipped for thirty dollars. I am a Landscape designer and can draw up plans, farmer, mom, cook, beekeeper, goatherder, compost maker and artist. Send stuff to FOXGLOVE FARM, box 143, Comptche Ca 95427, (707) 937 4116 Goddess bless and may spring come soon to you all! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 21:01:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA08155 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:01:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA21825; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:52:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtfm.midcoast.com (root@dns.midcoast.com [206.26.226.15]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21553 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:50:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from jpt (liberty-c-014.midcoast.com [208.153.20.114]) by rtfm.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA31981 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:52:57 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990307203853.007fec80@midcoast.com> X-Sender: stgeorge@midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 20:38:53 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: "John P. Thomas and Kathleen Barrett" Subject: Re: OFF: UPDATE and correction': Re:President of Whole Foods Market states that he's not against carrying GMO] In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dear Jane Couldn't agree more! John St. George Farm Freedom, Maine, USA At 10:48 PM 3/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >Excuse me folks buEt am I just cranky, or is this like throwing a bone with >rotten flecks of meat still attached to an angry dog? > >WHy do I have this creepy feeling that in the last 10 years or more health >food stores are just another form of food mill churning out more junk >processed food with little value mixed in with some things that may have >value just to appeal to "market share"? Why do I feel like labeling laws >are a waste of money like bandaids on infected untreated wounds which just >make lawyers or doctors rich and don't change a darn thing about how food >is produced, about how consumers are best informed and educated as to what >even is healthy food. > >Why do I feel that it is a wasted effort to demand that our law bodies >waste time and money debating a label law when meanwhile no one even knows >how to eat or what is a truly healthful way to eat. I talk to folks who >take workshops and pay lots of money for "insprirational" speakers to tell >them what to do and so they decide to go on a raw foods diet, but see >nothing wrong with buying those "raw" vegetables already cut up and >"washed" for them and put into a cellaphane bag so they can drop them in a >bowl and dose it with flax seed oil and lemon and think they're doing >themselves a favor? > >Am I missing something here? Did I miss something with this quote about >Chris Hitt of Whole foods? Did he or did he not say that IF foods that are >genetically labeled as such, then they WILL find a place in whole foods >markets? This labeling thing is diversionary tactics if you ask me! Just >where is this correction? > >I recently heard a small part of an Angela Davis speech given at a >university in upstate NY titled "The Prison Industrial Complex". When I >think about how uninformed, ill informed, uneducated, confused and under >researched the health professions and most folks are about food, farming >and nutrition it really gets to me! Davis talked about how the cutbacks in >education just in NYState ALONE were practically equal to the "billions", >yes B Billions of increased funds given to the prison system here!! No >wonder people don't know anything about food! > >Labels? > >JS > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 23:09:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA09482 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:09:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA08724; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:59:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08311 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:55:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.77] (pm3shep3-163-141.intrepid.net [209.190.163.141]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14075 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:57:44 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36E2B7A2.5B6E@mcn.org> References: <199903072115.QAA16036@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:51:46 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Query on goats Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN God Bless YOU, Kate Clarke! How do you dispose of your bucks? And when? Are you looking for a Calendar of the Soul or for STELLA NATURA? -Allan igg@igg.com Kate Clark said: >Here at Foxglove Farm we keep no bucks, as the odor destroys the >good taste. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sun Mar 7 23:11:07 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA09513 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:11:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA09134; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:01:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08780 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:59:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.77] (pm3shep3-163-141.intrepid.net [209.190.163.141]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14647 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:01:42 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:03:34 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: ADMIN: BD NOW! / Amazon.com Sales Report Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Things definitely picked up this week! Please note that the purchases in the NDIR colume represent a 5percent 'bonus' rather than the up to 15 per cent that can be earned by a direct link! Several of the indirectly linked purchases are actually available via buttons from the BD Now! pages. Oh, well. THANKS for the SUPPORT! -Allan igg@igg.com ORDERED YOUR ITEM CODE HITS DIR. NDIR FEE TITLE ---------- ------ ----- ----- ------- -------------------------------------- 1890693243 5 Secrets of the Soil : New Age Solu 1 0 2.39 sold at 20% off list price of 19.95 093725035X 4 Agriculture : Spiritual Foundation 1 0 1.12 sold at 0% off list price of 22.50 055309680X 3 Bringing a Garden to Life 0 1 0.80 sold at 30% off list price of 22.95 0062508474 2 The Secret Life of Nature : Living 0946551979 2 Living Energies; Describing Viktor 1855840553 2 Sensitive Chaos : The Creation of 0521411033 1 In the Society of Nature : A Nativ 081301235X 1 Foraging and Farming in the Easter 0883659573 1 Secrets of the Great Pyramid 0898158508 1 Brother Crow, Sister Corn : Tradit 0908228066 1 The Permaculture Book of Ferment & 0962464864 1 Chicken Tractor : The Permaculture 1887314156 1 Nourishing Traditions 0060915870 0 The Secret Life of Plants 0 1 0.68 sold at 20% off list price of 17.00 0679724532 0 The Gnostic Gospels 0 1 0.44 sold at 20% off list price of 11.00 094655157X 0 Living Water : Viktor Schauberger 0 1 0.48 sold at 20% off list price of 11.95 ---------- ------ ----- ----- ------- ----------------------------------- Totals: 25 2 4 $ 5.92 ISBN/ASIN home page search other --------------------- ----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Number of Visitors on 28-Feb-1999 0 0 0 0 Number of Visitors on 01-Mar-1999 4 0 0 0 Number of Visitors on 02-Mar-1999 4 0 0 0 Number of Visitors on 03-Mar-1999 3 0 0 0 Number of Visitors on 04-Mar-1999 8 0 0 0 Number of Visitors on 05-Mar-1999 1 0 0 0 Number of Visitors on 06-Mar-1999 0 0 0 0 --------------------- ----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Total Visitors this week 20 0 0 0 From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 8 00:43:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA10790 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 00:43:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA17896; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 00:34:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.state.vt.us (mail.state.vt.us [170.222.64.134]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA17587 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 00:30:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [170.222.217.115] by mail.state.vt.us (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44988U13000L13000S0) with SMTP id AAA188 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 00:33:06 -0500 Message-ID: <36E4B348.6409@pop.k12.vt.us> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 00:36:08 -0500 From: khuttbrd@pop.k12.vt.us (Kevin Hutt (BRD)) X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow Subject: Dr. Steiner said: ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dear BDNow Folks, I most certainly hope that BD practice can be 'grasped' by those under 40. It is clear to me that BD farming is an 'ongoing' process when, if approached with reverence, determination and lightness of heart, can lay each of us open to the great mysteries of Nature herself. Currently, as a participant in a BD study group I am reading N. Remer's "Law's of Life in Agriculture." At the beginning of chapter 8 (Dynamic Fertility in the Farm Individuality), he quotes from Dr. Steiner's "Eine Jahrhundertbetrachtung" (1923). This is what it says: "While in the west the attitude is: 'The world is the world, you have to live in it, at most you can think about social utopias', in Central Europe the attitude is: 'Man must become man in order to achieve true humanity; then he will find the Earth'". N. Remer goes on to mention in "Laws of Life in Agriculture" how Goethe had developed the idea of a 'pedagogical province' (in central Europe, no doubt) in which people were encouraged to "...understand humanity in general and the Earth as the destiny for humanity..."(pg. 113). Then Remer continues with his own insight, remarking that "...the farm individuality as a rural cultural centre is becoming a human requirement of our time, especially for young people."(pg. 113) This is powerful stuff. Any comments about these high-minded thoughts? I could use the wisdom that comes with age and practice. Kevin From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Mar 8 01:13:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA11102 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:13:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA20039; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:04:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA19872 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:00:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0214.direct.ca ([204.244.83.30] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10Jt80-0000ct-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:03:00 -0800 Message-ID: <36E367CC.358D4166@direct.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 22:01:48 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Bees and wool References: <199903051916.MAA14771@wavecom.net> <36E09575.141A1FD2@cyberhighway.net> <36E221B4.72041450@direct.ca> <36E2E3F2.BC393208@RT66.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dear Thomas, Bees are getting easily tangled up in wool. They cannot get out of the hair and may sting. Best is linnen or even cotton (very smooth surface) wear. Also white. Don't wear dark, black, indigo. The lighter the better. I believe that in olden days the priests worked with the bees and they are reminded of this. Regards Ferdinand Thomas Schley wrote: > Dear List, > > Let me introduce myself and put forward a question. I am not a farmer, > only a middling gardener (I grew up on a fish farm and have raised > salmon and trout). Presently I am living in northern New Mexico. > > Here is the question. I am signed up to attend a workshop on bees (a > course associated with the local Permaculture folks) in central NM. > They ask that we do not wear wool during the time we work with the bees, > stating that bees do not like wool. Can anyone comment on this? Does > Steiner mention this? Perhaps this is just common knowledge among > beekeepers, but I am wondering what its basis is from a practical and > esoteric point of view. > > BTW this has been our driest season here since the 1950s (probably the > warmest too). We could use some of Ferdinand's snow. It seems tha La > Nina shifts all the moisture northward. Only the extreme northern > mountains on the Colorado border have been getting snow. This evening's > forecast sounds hopefull: snow/rain tonight. > > Thanks for listening, > > Tom -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To help remedy and heal the extensive damage that has been done to cows (through feedlots, AI, hormones, excessive use of antibiotics, fast breeding, feeding of meat and silage etc.) please e-mail me any info, web site addresses, references, statistics or your personal observations and stories related to cows. I wish to use this info for a study. Thank you! From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 12 18:05:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06738 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:05:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA21819; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:53:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24680 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:13:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0111.direct.ca ([204.244.83.11] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10LXPU-0002iI-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:15:53 -0800 Message-ID: <36E96792.B80475D0@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:14:26 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Pusztai's GM potatoes References: <36E7F5DB.49B8@cwcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dear Tony, In this connection one would have to read Dr. Steiner's book 'THE KARMA OF UNTRUTHFULNESS'. It boggles ones mind to what extremes the negative forces do go in order to make a truth out of an untruth. You see, the industrial/financial complex 'thinks and acts' in unison. They need to keep things together. If one side crumbles, the rest may cave in as well. Remember Lenin: The longer you state a lie the more it becomes a truth.......(for how long?) Dr. Steiner has given the industrial/financial complex somewhat more time than Communism. He was dead on when, in 1918 he said, IF Communism becomes a 'practice' in Russia, it will kill Russia within 70 years. And, voila, there it was, 1988. Capitalism (and this is a very controversial word) Capitalism is (was) 'able' (so far) to adapt (it lies) much more actively than Communism. Communism became a fossil. Capitalism appears to be falling apart like a frazzled carpet (and may end in a dictatorship as well). Enough philosophy Regards Ferdinand Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: > Further to Michael's (? - sorry, I no longer have it) posting of the > "Independent" newspaper's interview with Arpad Pusztai, in which the > truth about the toxicity of GM potatoes to rats came out, it is > interesting to note how much of the original disclaimer by the Rowett > Institute (after suspending him for blowing the whistle) was completely > wrong. They said that the rats had been fed with ordinary potatoes > spiked with a jack-bean lectin, not genetically modified ones: we now > know not only that it was the GM ones which caused the trouble, whilst > the spiked ones had no effect, but also that the lectin originated in > snowdrops. Pusztai had been working on this for some time and had shown > that it is non-toxic in rats. How come his employers didn't know this ? > He was also criticised for not using ordinary potatoes as a control (he > did). They said that he should publish his results in a proper > scientific manner, when they had taken his data, 'frozen' his computer > and banned him from his laboratory. The genetic modification apparently > greatly altered the biochemistry of the potatoes - for example, their > protein level was so low that Pusztai had to add protein to the diet of > the experimental rats to make it up; starch and glucose levels were > also much altered. It is suggested (not by the Rowett) that the > toxicity may have arisen not from the lectin, but from the production of > high levels of toxic alkaloids - as a criticism of Pusztai, not of > genetic modification ! Tony N-S. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTER FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 12 18:05:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06745 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:05:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA21933; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:54:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from edam.direct.ca (edam.direct.ca [199.60.229.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25111 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:16:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0111.direct.ca ([204.244.83.11] helo=direct.ca) by edam.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10LXSb-0000fH-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:19:06 -0800 Message-ID: <36E96858.BAD72673@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:17:44 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Basalt dust - definition? References: <4f0731c5.36e7f6e8@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Can you give me a geological definition OR is Basalt a specific (igneous or amorph etc.) geological definition? >Because, we live by a river AND said river carries tons of finest rock dust WHICH, in turn, activates (thorugh its minerals and trace elements) plant life as well. So, does it have to be Basalt? Regards Ferdinand SVENSTRS@aol.com wrote: > One of the effects of basalt dust is increased biological activity. Therefore > a CO2 production test comparing your soil with and without a basalt > application could be useful in determining if your source is worth hauling and > spreading. A lot of work was do on this in Europe in the late 80's. David -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 12 18:05:44 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06754 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:05:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA22004; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:54:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01917 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:10:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sqa-25-0111.direct.ca ([204.244.83.11] helo=direct.ca) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10LYIb-0006AC-00 for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:12:49 -0800 Message-ID: <36E974E9.86D8CDD5@direct.ca> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:11:21 -0800 From: Ferdinand Vondruska Organization: C-Dar World Forest Foundation REG#89 103 0348 RR0001 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Re: earthworm curiosity & migration References: <123F2C467045@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dear Anita, Oh, I see. Must have misunderstood your post. Interesting, really interesting what you are saying. Well, my approx. 150' long compost (overall total length of all composts, right now) produces a variety of worms. The worm population expands and contracts and they migrate on a weekly basis. It all looks like a wave. Robert, my helper, made me aware of this cycle of migration and he found that worms go through great efforts in reaching a new manure pile. They wait for a rainy period and the, hush, get going. It is awe inspring how these naked creatures are trying to reach the new manure piles via gravel, logs, even hard top, plastic (we avoid it wherever possible), open grass field etc. I should make a study (If only I had more time). Many thanks for your help. Regards Ferdinand "Anita Graf (Staff)" wrote: > To Ferdinand and others, > > Just to clarify, there is a difference between the natural state of > worms in the ecosystem and "vermiculture." It's like the difference > between a few grazing buffulo on the plain and a barn full of > domestic cows. Worms in nature are wonderful and ever so necessary. > Worms in a vermiculture scheme perform on a different level. These > worms are kept in high concentrations (just like we grow lettuces > or any other crop or livestock in a concentration much higher than in > the natural world) and therefore the preditor-prey relationship is > disturbed. I'm sure you probably try to protect your cows from > attacks by dogs and wolves etc., though we could surly say that in > the wild these things even out as they should. Worms in the wild can > take care of themeselves and when eaten by natural preditors their > populations are not much affected. Worms in the concentration needed > to make the truck loads of awesome fertilizer that is easily > attainable with a bit of harnessing of natures miracles, requires a > tad more diligence. The addition of a screen or net over the worm > beds (like a layer of remay of the young tasty lettuces...) is > advised for keeping out those birds etc who will have thought they > died and gone to a worm-buffet heaven otherwise. > > Also, as I mentioned in my original letter, worms are easily burned > by newly composting materials (and presumably high concentrations of > synthetic N as well) and therefore need a cool place to escape to > while they wait for the temp to go down. Worm composting is quite > different than the hot composting done in bd. Perhaps that's why > some in bd would dismiss it as undesirable. I will refrain from > making a judgement in this way and will suffice it to say that it is > different. > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C-DAR HOUSE - A CENTRE FOR THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE VOICE OF THE FOREST INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF ITS SOUL THROUGH THE ARTS. IN COLLABORATION WITH C-DAR WORLD FOREST FOUNDATION, A REGISTERED CHARITY. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 12 18:06:53 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06787 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:06:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA22057; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:54:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix.infoserve.net (0@unix.infoserve.net [199.175.157.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07670 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:54:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mroboz (d161.infoserve.net [199.175.157.161]) by unix.infoserve.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA26126 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:00:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001b01be6cca$f350b960$a19dafc7@mroboz.infoserve.net> From: "Michael Roboz" To: Subject: Fw: OFF/ good news from Canada on GE / GEN3-11 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:54:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -----Original Message----- From: Richard Wolfson To: info@natural-law.ca Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 12:51 PM Subject: GEN3-11 >On March 11, the Agriculture and Forestry Committee of the Canadian Senate >released its interim report on Genetically engineered BGH. They were very >much against it. The full report can be found at: >http://www.parl.gc.ca/36/1/parlbus/commbus/senate/com-e/agri-e/rep-e/repint ermar >99-e.htm > >Here are the main recommendations: > >LIST OF RECOMMENDATIONS > > >1.The Committee recommends that Health Canada ensure full adherence to its >conflict of interest guidelines and, in cases of perceived conflict of >interest, publicly declare its reasons for accepting the appointment of any >individuals for whom a conflict is perceived. (page 10). > >2.The Committee recommends that decisions about the safety of drugs for >humans, and the safety and efficacy of drugs for animals, be left with >Health Canada evaluators (page 11). > >3.The Committee, having heard the suggestion of some witnesses, recommends >that the government conduct an evaluation of Health Canada's drug approval >process to ensure that it fully safeguards human and animal health and >safety. This evaluation should be undertaken by independent experts, either >in conjunction with any follow-up activities of the Auditor General of >Canada regarding the Health Protection Branch or subject to review by the >Auditor General (page 13). > >4.The Committee recommends that no Notice of Compliance be issued for rBST >until the manufacturer submits the long-term studies identified by Health >Canada's rBST internal review team as data missing from its submission and >until a review of those studies more precisely determines any risks to >human safety (page 17). > >5.The Committee recommends that Health Canada ask that the study requested >by the evaluators of the former Central Nervous >System/Endocrine/Antiparasitic Division be conducted and submitted in order >to meet the requirement of section C.08.004.(2) of the Food and Drug >Regulations (page 18). > >6.The Committee recommends that once human and animal health and safety are >assured, the government establish an ongoing mechanism that would stimulate >public discussion on economic, trade, social, ethical and other >considerations related to drugs and medical devices that are being >considered by Health Canada. This mechanism should involve the Canadian >Food Inspection Agency where relevant, and may be one outcome of the Health >Protection Branch's Transition initiative (page 21). > >7.The Committee recommends that Health Canada officials appear before the >Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry no later than June >1999 to provide information about the initiatives undertaken to resolve the >management problems identified in this report (page 22). > >8.The Committee recommends that any federal government department asked for >information by a parliamentary committee fulfill that request completely >and as expeditiously as possible. Information that the department believes >to be proprietary should be presented to committees in camera, with a >rationale for maintaining confidentiality (page 24). > >9.The Committee recommends that Health Canada, and in particular the Health >Protection Branch, explore means by which ongoing consultation with the >public, and information dissemination to it, can continue following the >Transition initiative (page 24). >....... > >Here is an inspiring personal report from: Paul Davis >in UK > > Fri, 12 Mar 1999 > >Subject: B-GE: UK TV > >Brilliant TV program last night!!!! >Covered the whole Pusztai story, 'substantial equivalence', Caul Mosaic >Virus, lack of control in US, GM in baby food ....... > >Dr. Pusztai came out like a hero. Putting his reputation on the line >because he found something wrong, even though he was the man who originally >said the snowdrop lectin was fine. He was very calm, clear and like a >shining light in contrast to his devious and unbelievable opponents. > >Nice touch in an american supermarket. At the check-out, the reporter asked >which products contained GM - check-out girl had no idea. 'Has anyone asked >you that before?', 'No sir, you're the first'. > >Good interview with an american scientist pointing out how unpredictable >the science is. Also Dr. Howard of Liverpool, a leading expert in child >toxology, had a great impact. His concerns for children's & babies health >came over as very genuine. > >Prof. James of the Rowett must be fuming!!! Everyone is now qouting him as >saying the current regulations are not comprehensive enough!!!! And >Minister Jeff Rooker ranted on again how fed up he is people talking about >the potato - 'This potato is not on the market'. However at the end of the >program the reporter said that they had research Government & EU papers and >had found that a number of crops containing the snowdrop gene are in the >pipeline for approval - cauliflower, rice, maize..... and a POTATO!!!!! >....... > >posted by MichaelP > >Royal Society sets up inquiry on Pusztai expts. > >INDEPENDENT (London) March 11 > >Inquiry into work of GM food scientist > >By Steve Connor, Science Editor > >A high-powered team of scientists has been appointed to investigate the >work of Dr Arpad Pusztai, whose findings triggered a furore over >genetically modified (GM) food. > >The Royal Society, Britain's most eminent body of scientists, has asked six >of the country's leading scientists to review the data that led Dr Pusztai >to warn that people who eat GM food are "unwitting guinea pigs in a mass >experiment". > >The six specialists were selected by the Royal Society for their expertise >in different disciplines and their independence from the Pusztai affair. >None has commented publicly on the controversy. > >It is almost unprecedented for the Royal Society to establish what is >effectively an independent peer review of a scientist's unpublished work. >It was brought about because of the intense publicity associated with the >Pusztai affair. > >Last August, the Rowett Research Institute in Aberdeen suspended Dr Pusztai >after he claimed in a television interview that rats fed GM potatoes had >stunted growth and a defective immune system. The institute said Dr Pusztai >had no evidence on which to base his assertions and claimed that he had >become "muddled" over experiments that had not taken place. In February, 20 >scientists, mostly friends of Dr Pusztai, signed a memorandum supporting >him, citing new evidence. > >The members of the review team include experts in statistics, nutrition, >animal genetics, epidemiology and pharmacology. They will report their >findings next month. > >........... > >Here is a recent Natural Law Party Press from release that I was forwarded >from Europe: > > http://www.natural-law-party.org E-mail: nlp@euronet.nl > >11 March 1999 > > >SCIENTISTS ALERT MPs TO BAN GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOODS > >A special all-party briefing for MPs of the British parliament was held on >8 March in London in a House of Commons committee room, given by scientists >concerned about the introduction of genetically modified foods. > >Professor John Fagan, an eminent molecular biologist with 23 years of >experience at the cutting edge of molecular genetics techniques in cancer >research, called for greater caution in the introduction of genetically >modified foods. > >"If genetic engineering is to be used in agriculture and food production, >its implementation should be guided by the same kind of rigorous science >and testing that is now used to assess new pharmaceuticals and food >additives. Stringent short-term and long-term safety testing and >environmental assessment are essential," Dr Fagan told MPs. > > >An imprecise and uncontrolled process > >Using detailed charts to explain the process of genetic engineering, Dr >Fagan showed how the insertion of specific new genes into an organism is an >imprecise and uncontrolled process that may influence biological >functioning in unpredictable ways. "There is always the risk that >genetically engineered foods may contain unintended allergens and toxins, >and may be reduced in nutritional value. Furthermore, genetically >engineered crops may disrupt the ecosystem by reducing bio-diversity, >damaging soil fertility, inducing the development of new pathogens, pests, >and weeds, and increasing the use of toxic and carcinogenic agrochemicals." > >Dr Fagan is Professor of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry. He initiated >world-wide debate on genetics research in 1994 when he returned almost two >million dollars of grants from the US National Institutes of Health because >of concerns about the dangers of genetic engineering and the hazards of >releasing GM organisms into the environment. Dr Fagan is also chief >scientific adviser to Genetic I.D., a company that provides genetic testing >services to food, nutritional, and agricultural industries throughout the >world. The tests Dr Fagan has devised are significantly more sensitive than >any currently utilised by British authorities and can detect the minutest >trace of any GMO. > > >Medical and agricultural applications of genetic engineering > >Dr Michael Antoniou, Senior Lecturer in Molecular Pathology and head of a >research group at one of London's leading teaching hospitals, explained the >difference between clinical and agricultural applications of genetic >engineering. "Genetic engineering in medicine tries to correct a genetic >defect that is either inherited, as in muscular dystrophy or cystic >fibrosis, or acquired, as in cancer. Strict regulations quite rightly >demand that the use of genetic modification (GM) in medicine does not >result in the intentional release of viable GM organisms (GMOs) into the >environment," Dr Antoniou said. "In marked contrast, the use of GM in >agriculture tries to 'repair' plants that have nothing inherently wrong >with them. In agriculture, GMOs are produced specifically for their >intentional release into the environment. > >"In medicine a new drug or therapy produced using GM must undergo >pre-clinical and, more importantly, clinical trials to assess not only >efficacy but also to detect any unexpected, undesirable side-effects. >However, for GM food no tests with human volunteers are required by law for >either toxicity or allergic reactions prior to marketing. > >"Medicines are clearly labelled, and they are taken voluntarily, and the >effects are carefully monitored. None of this applies to GM foods. Under >current EU regulations most foods (90%) containing GMO-derived ingredients >need not be labelled. The lack of effective segregation means the public >has no choice as to whether to eat GM foods or not, and finally >post-release monitoring is non-existent. Any problem that subsequently >arises would therefore be virtually impossible to trace," he said. > > >Respecting natural boundaries > >"If BSE has taught us anything it is that we should think twice about using >a technology in a manner that violates well established natural boundaries. >Nature works according to the principle of 'least action' (maximum economy) >suggesting that everything exists for a purpose. Natural boundaries or laws >can be seen as the means by which the evolutionary direction and integrity >of life is maintained. > >"We should not lull ourselves into a false sense of security: we should not >think that by regulating something which is inherently unpredictable and >uncontainable it automatically becomes safe," he said. > >Dr Antoniou is the author/co-author of more than 50 publications and is >biotechnology adviser to many organisations including the Soil Association >and the Society for the Promotion of Nutritional Therapy. > > >A total ban > >Dr Geoffrey Clements, leader of the British Natural Law Party and a >physicist by training, emphasised that the scientific knowledge behind the >so-called technology is totally inadequate to guarantee that the GMOs now >being produced are free from hazards. > > >"It is like expecting a physicist trained under Newton to operate a nuclear >reactor," Dr Clements said. "The actual methods employed are intrinsically >dangerous and highly unnatural," he said, referring to the fact that >genetic modification can involve pieces of DNA from scorpions, fish >viruses, bacteria and other species being implanted in the DNA of cereals, >vegetables, fruits and animals. > >"Contrary to the arguments being put forward, these are mutations of the >DNA that could never occur in nature. They are being made to occur in >isolated species over a time scale of one or two years. In nature, >evolution of the DNA usually takes place over millions of years, in a >natural environment of all species living together in balance. > >"This means that we have no way at all of predicting any adverse results >that may happen. When the methods of genetic modification are understood - >that they involve pieces of virus and bacterial DNA, for example - it is >clear that we are unleashing potential disaster for all life forms. > >"The only safe way forward is a total ban on all new GM crops and foods, >and a recall of all crops and products already being grown and prepared." >The Natural Law Party was the first political party to declare itself >opposed to GM foods, and it is now actively campaigning on the issue in 80 >countries. > >........ > > >GM Farmers have Grounds for Concern >Experts warn of fall in land values similar to effect of contamination or >disease > >CHRISTOPHER CAIRNS >Environment Correspondent >Scotsman >11th march 1999 > >GENETICALLY modified crops could reduce the value of agricultural land >across Britain and leave tenant farmers open to legal action, the >Government has been told. > >In a warning which has sent tremors through the already crisis-hit farming >industry, >the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) has said GM crops could >have the same effect on land values as contamination or the outbreak of >disease. > >The RICS has sent a report to the Office of Science and Technology and several >other Government departments calling for the setting up of a land register >through >which potential buyers and banks could find out if and when GM crops had >been grown on a particular holding. >Environmentalists have backed the RICS and warned of disastrous >consequences for British agriculture if the Government presses ahead with >commercial scale GM >crop trials. > >....... > >[This is top story for Mar 11, 1999 on OneWorld News > >[http://www.oneworld.org/news ] > >AGRICULTURE: Death To Monsanto, Say World Scientists > >By Ranjit Dev Raj NEW DELHI, Mar 11 (IPS) - Conscientious genetic engineers >and activists from across the world Thursday called for a slow but sure >death for Monsanto, the U.S seed giant they say threatens life on earth >with its genetically modified crops. > >''It must be death by a thousand cuts,'' said Tony Clarke, director of the >Polaris Institute in Canada which assists social movements to develop >tools, skills and strategies for fighting economic globalisation and >corporate power. > >Clarke was among participants selected to devise future strategies against >'Genetic Engineering and Patents on Life' at the close of the two-day >'Biodevastation II' meet here. > >Monsanto figured high on the agenda because of stiff resistance put up in >this country by farmers and activists to field trials in 40 widely separate >locations of genetically engineered Bt cotton carried out by the >corporation on doubtful authorisation. > >Said Pushpa Bhargava, a distinguished India biotechnologist who has the >French Legion d'Honneur to his credit, ''clearance for the trials should >have come from Indian Council of Agricultural research (ICAR) - instead >clearance came from the Department of Biotechnology and after the trials >had begun.'' > >........ > >The Christian Science Monitor >March 10, 1999, Wednesday >SECTION: USA; GLOBAL REPORT; Pg. 1 >Signs of the food fight to come >BYLINE: Laurent Belsie, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor >DATELINE: ST. LOUIS >HIGHLIGHT: Gene-spliced plants and hormone-treated beef raise ethical >questionsabout how much to fool with nature. > >BODY: Geneticists are on the verge of revolutionizing >agriculture and medicine in much the same way computers have transformed >business. Labs around the world are working on crops that could feed a >growing planet, plants that could clean up contaminated soils, and pigs >whose organs may one day get trans-planted into people. > >But to do these things, scientists are fooling with nature's basic building >blocks. As they do, they are kicking up dissent around the world as one >nation tries to sell its genetically altered foods to another's grocers. >The current food fight between the United States and Europe - over >hormone-treated beef and genetically altered soy beans - could be just a >prelude of arguments to come. That's because the greatest risks probably >don't lie with today's simple genetic alterations. Future rounds of exotic >agriculture pose bigger threats because they will put organisms to >completely new uses. The fundamental question: How much should science >manipulate nature to care for mankind? > >And there's no going back, scientists say. Consider the US experience. >While Europeans debate how far to proceed with the new technology, >Americans are quietly ingesting the new foods, often without knowing it. >"The genie can't be put back," says Marshall Martin, an agricultural >economist at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Ind. "Anyone who eats >pizza or cheese on their hamburger has consumed genetically modified >food.... We pulled the cork out of the bottle in a sense with the discovery >of DNA." > >For example, three-quarters of America's cheese gets its start with a >bioengineered enzyme. Nearly 1 out of 6 dairy farmers injects his cows with >a genetically engineered growth hormone to boost milk production. And >genetically modified crops are increasingly taking over farmlands - with >some 70 million acres planted worldwide, 60 million of it in North America. >This planting season promises more inroads. For example, half of America's >soybeans, perhaps more of its cotton, and a third of its corn could be >genetically modified - a remarkable adoption rate in the four years since >the new seeds were introduced. > >Other countries are also moving rapidly to incorporate the technology. Last >year, some 650,000 farmers in China planted genetically modified cotton. >And this year Monsanto, which produces the cotton seed, expects to double >that number. Even the European Union has approved bioengineered soybeans >and corn. Small quantities of corn, genetically modified to resist pests, >are being grown in Spain and, if approved by France's high court, could >start showing up in the fields of Europe's largest corn producer. > > >....... > >Daily Express 12 March 99 >Why soya is a hidden destroyer > >Exclusive by Mark Townsend > >Fresh fears over the safety of genetically modified foods surfaced faced >yesterday after new research revealed that food allergies relating to soya >Increased by 50 per cent last year A study by Europe’s leading specialists >on food sensitivity found health complaints caused by soya - the ingredient >most associated with GM foods - have increased from 10 in 100 patients to >15 in 100 over the past year. > >Researchers at the York Nutritional Laboratory said their findings provide >real evidence that GM food could have a tangible, harmful impact on the >human body. > >The findings were sent to Health Secretary Frank Dobson last night as >scientists urged the Government to act on the information and impose an >instant ban on GM food, while further safety tests are carried out. Dr >Michael Antoniou, senior lecturer in molecular pathology at Guy's Hospital, >Central London, said: "This is a very interesting if slightly worrying, >development. It points to the fact that far more work is needed to assess >their safety. At the moment no allergy tests are carried out before GM >foods are marketed and that also needs to be looked at." > >John Graham, spokesman for the York laboratory, said: "We believe this >raises serious new questions about the safety of GM foods because it is >impossible to guarantee that the soya used in the tests was GM-free." It is >the first time in 17 years of testing that soya has crept into the >laboratory's top 10 foods to cause an allergic reaction in consumers. > >__________________________________ >Richard Wolfson, PhD >Consumer Right to Know Campaign >for Mandatory labelling and long-term >testing of genetically engineered food >500 Wilbrod Street, Ottawa, ON K1N 6N2 >email: rwolfson@concentric.net >http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html >subcription to genetic engineering news is $35 >for 12 months. >__________________________________ > > > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 12 21:13:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09271 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:13:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA07438; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:02:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06702 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:57:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [148.233.186.156] ("port 2049"@[148.233.186.156]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1998.11.13.11.10) with ESMTP id <0F8I00DKQDHQQJ@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:01:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:08:11 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: organic Soybean production In-reply-to: <36E96792.B80475D0@direct.ca> To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <36E7F5DB.49B8@cwcom.net> Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hola BDrs: I need help locating resources in the internet for info on large scale organic soybean production. (culture practices, soil, water, temperture, requirements, associated crops, IPC, etc). I would be most grateful for your help. Do any of you have experience with BD soybeans ? Can soybeans be associated with rice production ? Many Thanks & Regards Guillermo Romero I. Comala, Colima, MEXICO From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 12 21:13:58 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09282 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:13:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA07373; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:02:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA28936 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:12:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.179.254]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990313001545.QZRL682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:15:45 +1300 Message-ID: <36E9AE6C.5906@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:16:44 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: Mice correspondence Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Glen As far as using it goes, I have to tell you something. After I got rid of the mice (a couple of adults and some babies) I was going to spray that pepper, but I was nervous about using it on the wrong day etc. Some of my reading indicated I could do more harm by using it against indications, and I really didn't want to bring more in. Do you remember what you told me about the presence of mice perhaps indicating a nervous imbalance? I went with that in a strong way. The first thing I did was tune in to my state of mind. I found myself at various moments clenching up inside. I've tried to maintain mindfulness. Sometimes I tune out (being a Pisces) but I am more present with life than ever before in this incarnation. I decided to save the pepper and use it if I saw any more signs of mice, but I haven't and it's been several months now. I would like to know more about peppering, but I don't feel far enough along in my study of BD to be confident with it now. But what you gave me along with the pepper was so very valuable, an inner mouse pepper so to speak. Every time I open my pantry door, I look for mouse turds and they aren't there. And I think of you quite often, because opening that door reminds me of your words, reminds me to be mindful! Now, if Glen could only put that in a bottle and sell it! I hope this letter makes sense. I've been in seed-ordering mode, and haven't been sleeping right for worrying whether I have the right amounts of everything. I've been tired for a week! Lord, hope I don't bring the mice back! Cheers, Pam DeTray Pam Thank you for this feedback. The bottle I sent you I think was my Garuda mouse prep rather than a pepper. This is made from specific BD preps. These preps do not have the same application problems you mention and I would suggest you forget about all the fear around the pepper application dates too. If a pepper is made correctly then the Astronomy of the situation is only a secondary help and not the predominate factor. This is a great story you have told here and one I think the whole list would benefit from, as it supports (a little) my contention that all pest and disease are energetic manifestations of their environment. I guess I would have liked you to have not caught the rats and just used your awareness and the spray to remove them. This is possible. I had an interesting experience lately. After the rat episodes I have reported before, we had a rat move back into the garden. Living in the compost heap. It was not causing any trouble so I left it alone. Then we had a wwoofer who has a disturbed nervous system ( Sun conjuct Uranus opposed Moon). She rubs people up the wrong way wherever she goes for very unseen reasons. Anyway the rat went beserk and started eating our tomatoes, the day she arrived. Any sign of ripening and it would eat it. Even half way up the vine. Which is why it took me a little while to sort out if it was a bird or a rat. Once I sorted out it was the rat I sprayed the garden ( and I dosed the woman). The rat moved out of the garden immediately but came back to feed for a couple of days, and now there is no sign of it. All very interesting. I may have mentioned instead of spraying the prep around you might just take a dose yourself and see what it does for you. Cheers Glen A > From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Mar 12 21:17:42 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09347 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:17:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA07243; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:01:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA26118 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:36:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from garudix ([210.55.161.78]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990312233904.QTXQ682101.mta1-rme@garudix> for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:39:04 +1300 Message-ID: <36E9A5D3.4C0B@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:40:03 +1300 From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Organization: Garuda NZ ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bdnow@envirolink.org Subject: agsyn.com > innovators Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Ferdy wrote > > Well, as far as I am concerned: telling the truth (the way I saw it) and moving forward > (across the feet of many oldies) and speaking out forcefully, collapsed many an old > (Waldorf) shack..... (mind). I could have done it somewhat more gentle. I forgot to > realise that I (at that time 25) and many Waldorfians (60 and older) were on collision > course - head on. 'They' had treasured Dr. STeiner's ideas and suggestions with a > passion (I would assume) in their hearts and heads but could not get it into their > hands. > > Me, pushing forward, amputated heads, got harts moving faster and (as indicated) > collapsed many a Steinerian theory. > > Often, the call 'against me' sounded as follows: 'Get the hell out of Vancouver, you > are so darn controversial!' And so, to me, controversial became a 'hurt word'. Hurting > others. It is the reason why I withdrew for a long time to the hinterland. > > Yet, I am starting to realize 'nothing really moves forward if I continue to be Mr. > Nice Guy. I am presently going through a similar situation again. > > I do not know whether this brings a bit more clarity to the discussion. Regards > Ferdinand You know Ferdinand this comment you have made is a similiar experience I have had and while I do not feel quite as apologetic as you, your words mirror the experience of youth and the inspired innovator. I have been reflecting on a saying lately " that all great innovations are done by people under 25". Interesting........... And should you apologise for seeing another way and speaking your truth about your vision and the failings of the past? I think not. Yes, you should probably move on and leave the Saturnian oldies to manitain their monument to their youth, ( is this not the role of our present BDAs ) while working to make your tomorrow a reality. Good on you for doing it. And when it is our turn to honour the 25 year old in our midst, can we do it. I hope so... Oh for more 25 year old willing to take up RSs work and innovate wildly upon it. As these Aquarian times and influences increase it is about celebrating diversity that the way ahead lies. We can do it so easily in our gardens, now we have to do it on this international stage of Aquarian reality the internet. I am most interested in hearing everyones take on this BD reality ( and expressing mine ) and the lively discussion and debate this can engender. The one thing I have gained from this list this last couple of years is there is no one understanding we can say is gospel, as we are all students struggling without a competent tutor to show us the path. So be it. Lets talk. Glen A. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 00:17:43 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA12044 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:17:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA21501; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 00:05:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16006 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 22:51:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-209-79-182-73.vntrcs.pacbell.net) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.01.13.19.49.p4) with ESMTP id <0F8I002P1LEQMQ@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for bdnow@envirolink.org; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:52:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:00:45 -0800 From: christopher jones Subject: Newcomer To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Message-id: <36E9E2EC.D34BEE4E@pacbell.net> Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-PBI-NC404 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I am new to bio-dynamics. I live in in Southern California and have a lot of shale with little organic matter. Any suggestions on how to begin a more bio-dynamic situation. -- Christopher Jones feast@pacbell.net From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 01:16:03 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA12739 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:16:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA27539; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:05:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from angel.algonet.se (angel.algonet.se [194.213.74.112]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA27329 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:02:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7351 invoked from network); 13 Mar 1999 07:04:46 +0100 Received: from du2-145.ppp.algonet.se (HELO ?195.100.145.2?) (195.100.145.2) by angel.algonet.se with SMTP; 13 Mar 1999 07:04:46 +0100 X-Sender: tyling@pop.algonet.se Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:07:04 +0200 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: tyling@algonet.se (Lovebirds) Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN PLEASE UNSUBSRIBE BD NOW! KOSOTIE tyling@algonet.se From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 09:05:56 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16367 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:05:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA20687; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:54:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA20567 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:53:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.52] (pm3shep2-163-110.intrepid.net [209.190.163.110]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08784 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:55:33 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:57:39 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: spraying by air Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN It probably is a shortcoming of my own that there is no 'introductory statement' required for joining the BD Now! community. (Of course, a great many people prefer that!) In a case like David Griffith's, this shortcoming becomes glaring. For those of you who do not know, David is the founder/owner/manager of 7 Stars Farm in Kimberton (OK, you knew that much) David and his family make the absolute best yogurt (Seven Stars) that you can buy in a health food store. (The thick cream on the top of the original version is a dream to we Sally Fallon fans!! :-) 7 Stars also makes several wonderful varieties of cheeses, but these, as far as I know, are not distrubted commercially. David knows what he is doing with BD, the proof is in his 'pudding.' All this makes the question below all the more interesting! David, I have to ask: how much acreage do you prep yearly and how often do you spray a farm that is as well established as yours? -Allan Balliett moderator BD Now! igg@igg.com >I am looking into spraying preps by powered parachutes. These are slow moving >(26 mph), relatively safe, high payload (800 -1000 lbs), and not too >expensive. The idea would be to use a boomless jet and an electric diaphram >pump to deliver about 2 to 3 gal./acre from about 50 -60 ft above the ground >(out of the way of lines and trees). Spaying times would be early morning >(501) and early evenings (500). Any comments or suggestions? David Griffiths >Seven Stars Farm, Kimberton PA =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 09:07:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16377 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:07:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA20806; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:57:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA20734 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:56:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.52] (pm3shep2-163-110.intrepid.net [209.190.163.110]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA09243 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:58:41 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36E92D3F.C4F2A0FD@direct.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:59:41 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: OFF: unable to receive/send mail Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN >Dear friends, > >Living in the boonies has its disadvantages, too. My server does not >have enough lines and I can only receive or send posts for about 4 - 5 >hours per night. So, if you do not hear from you that much any longer, >it is the server that has 'cut me out'. In the past I could 'digest' >posts on an ongoing basis. At the moment there is a line : user >relationship of 1:20 which is far too high. Regards Ferdinand Everyone: Many of us are faced with this problem. A remedy is on the horizon. Many of the national long distance companies are offering internet connections as part of your regular service. You might want to check in with AT&T or Sprint, and so on. -Allan Balliett igg@igg.com From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 09:11:27 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16404 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:11:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21213; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:00:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA20901 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:59:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.190.163.52] (pm3shep2-163-110.intrepid.net [209.190.163.110]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09813 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:02:03 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36E94057.A79@cwcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:03:27 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Re: Beekeeping - Varroa treatment Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN North Americans: do we have a source for "green almond shells"? >I've just read about another treatment for Varroa which does not use >synthetic chemicals. J.T. Brown of Essex (UK) uses a tincture made with >green almond husks (not shells) and alcohol. He fills a large screw-top >jar with the shredded husks almost to the top, then adds vodka to just >cover them. Screw the top on tightly and leave for about a month; then >strain into a clean bottle. Beekeepers in the US may have an >alternative source of alcohol - here, it is heavily taxed. > He applies it on a dummy board (the sort you use when a box is a frame >short) over which he has stretched a piece of linen. After a month, >re-treat the cloth and put the board back. The treated boards can be >left throughout the year, as the tincture is quite non-toxic and affects >neither the bees nor the honey. I've not tried it myself, but the >method was recommended by an MP who is also a long-term beekeeper. > Tony N-S. From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Sat Mar 13 10:08:24 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA16898 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:08:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA25386; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:57:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from online.dct.com (root@online.dct.com [204.29.185.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA25335 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:57:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from wmh (dial216.dct.com [207.67.75.216]) by online.dct.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA19688 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 08:59:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000101be6d62$22caef20$e44b43cf@wmh.dct.com> From: "Wm Hurrle" To: Subject: Re: Basalt dust Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:10:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dear All, Rock dusts: The magazine is Remineralize the Earth, 152 South St., Northampton, MA 01060, 413-586-4429, -6064 fax, ReminEarth@aol.com. Three issues a year for $25. This is 1996 information. The Survival of Civilization by John D.Hamaker & Donald A. Weaver, ISBN 0-941550-00-1, Hamaker-Weaver Publishers, POB 1961, Seymour, MO 65746, $12. This is a remarkable book. The oldest information on the subject I know is the 1894 monograph, Bread from Stones, by Julius Hensel. I got a mimeo copy translated from the German from Health Research, POB 70, Mokelumene Hill, CA 95245. Another source is The Enlivened Rock Powders by Harvey Lisle, 4427 State Rt.601, Norwalk, OH 44857, $15 + $1.50 s&h. I've not read this book. ACRES, usa, is into it. Christopher Bird also wrote about remineralization. I think ATTRA has a publication on it, too. Soil microbes need the widest menu of elements possible to be healthy. Correct management of the carbon cycle is not enough. Since the last glacier ground and distributed rock dust, precipitation and our lousy ag have leached elements out of the soils. To keep them healthy rock dust ammendments are needed. There are numbers of businesses devoted to supplying special rock dust conditioners. The aggregate industry is aware of the ag use of fines that are otherwise a drag on their operations. Contact the state associations. Remin the Earth will send a list of them for $1 and a SASE. There are outfits in Europe and Australia that sell minerals, too. Regards, Wm Hurrle