Subject: Strip crops and poultry

From: [email-masked] (Dan Settles, Dept. of Cell Biology DUMC)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:42:06 -0400

On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 [email-masked] wrote:

> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:54:16 -0400 (EDT)
> From: [email-masked]
> To: [email-masked], [email-masked],
>     [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: Applications [strip crops]
>
> In a message dated 10/9/97 9:33:52 AM, [email-masked] (April
> Sampson-Kelly) wrote:
>
> >The difference between strip farming with poultry free range in between the
> >strips
> >and actually using tractors-  is the concentration of birds on the soil,
> >this concentration can quickly denude an
> >area which is open to weed seed or your seed.
> >This is desirable for intensive beds but may be a unnecessary for large
> >scale farming.
> >When I use the chickens in a small concentration here I am left with woody
> >plants and sedges and a mix of less tasty plants (tasty for hens) but there
> >is a wider control of pests such as insects, caterpillars, slugs and
> >snails.
> >For orchard maintenance you could use 100 birds to the acre [Mollison] it
> >all depends on how much understorey or ground cover
> >there is for the birds to eat.

>  There is no reason not to grow grain for chickens in the forages when
> chickens are out, or other crops and agroforestry naturally fits in.  My
> chickens really don't like to come out from under the trees and I have wasted
> grain trying to entice them into certain open areas to break up bovine manure
> pats for fly control.  They just left the grain there, much to the delight of
> the cardinals and other wild birds.
>
> For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway
------------------
Thought I'd share a little of my experince with poultry.  We have 22
ducks and 11 chickens that are free ranging in a fenced 1 acre combination
pasture/ wooded area.  They share this area with 4 calves and 5 goats at
the moment.  The area is definitely not big enough to provide forage for
the calves, but they need supplemental feed (grain) at this young
state of their lives. The majority of the grain is corn and the calves do
not completely digest it, so the manure is loaded with lots of small corn
pieces.

The ducks discovered this food source recently and have done an
excellent job of breaking up the manure in search of the corn.  At first
they appeared to be very selective about picking the corn pieces out of
the manure, but now they seem to be eating quite a bit of the green
matter that passes through the calves.  This has worked out great as we
no longer have the mess of manure piles to step around and in, and it's
alot better for fly and parasite control.

My only concern with this system is that we plan to start eating some of
the ducks soon, and I'm a bit concerned about how this diet might affect
the flavor of the birds.  I may find that I need to separate them from
the manure for a period before butchering them.

Perhaps you would have more luck feeding the grain to your bovines rather
than scattering it on the ground.  Whole grains tend to make the trip
through the GI system better, but I am finding cracked corn also works
fine.  Good luck.

Dan Settles

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:08:56 -0400 (EDT)

In a message dated 10/14/97 9:15:52 AM, [email-masked] wrote:

>Fortunately, we don't have to be concerned with alligators, but there are 
>plenty of stray dogs, racoons, bobcats, owls, hawks and other wild things 
>that would like to snack on our ducks.  The only reason we can manage things

>as we have is due to our livestock guardian dog, Sultan.  He lives with 
>our animals and in the 6 months that we have had him we have not lost a 
>single animal to predators.  I don't think I've read any permaculture 
>books that mentioned these dogs, but I think they could be an excellent 
>addition to many permaculture systems that utilize livestock. 

Ah, you have solved my alligator/duck problem.  Alligators prefer dogs to
about anything!  Now I need a cheap source of dogs.

For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since
1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and now correspondence
courses via email.  Next starts in Oct. 1997. Internships available.
Copyright, 1997, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192 USA
 [email-masked]  

We don't have time to rush.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:13:57 -0400 (EDT)

In a message dated 10/14/97 9:15:52 AM, you wrote:

>That sounds beautiful.  We have a blue heron that visits our pond most 
>days to do a little fishing.  I really enjoy watching it fly off into the 
>sunset in the evening.  
>
>Dan Settles

Yes, we have herons too--blue, grey, white.  At dawn if you flush them from
hunting, they rise as though they were in slow motion, the undulation of
their wings seemingly a beauty utterly independent of flight.  They lift an
melt into the sun-speckled mist while the sliver water lillies open.  this is
the Florida swamp land that everyone thinks is worthless.  You are right,
stay away, the viscious alligators will get you.  (More likely, fire ants.)

Mollison was so right about edges.  That is where the action is, dusk and
dawn, when the mystery of life tingles at the surface.  This is what we are
saving with permaculture if we do it right and don't spend all our time
fighting each other.

---

From: Loren Davidson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:17:58 -0700

>about anything!  Now I need a cheap source of dogs.

Well, the first two might cost you something, unless you loiter in front of
grocery stores looking for the cardboard boxes labeled "free puppies".
After that, I understand they propagate without much encouragement.  Perhaps
more than two, depending on how their rate of propagation compares to the
rate at which the alligators harvest them...

Loren,
humming, "How much is that doggie in the window..."
--
Loren Davidson      
[email-masked]         http://www.batnet.com/beauty/
"Fundamentalism stops a thinking mind" - seen on a bumper sticker