Subject: Re: Safer soap

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:22:53 -0500 (EST)

In a message dated 11/24/97 2:34:38 AM, [email-masked] wrote:

>The main difference between 'regular' and insecticidal soaps, that I know
>
>of, is the substitution of potassium in insecticidal soaps for the sodium
>
>in regular soaps.
>
>
>
>I don't know if this is an important functional difference, though it
>
>probably lowers toxicity (to stretch the term to encompass the effects of
>
>excessive sodium) of breakdown products.
>
>
>
>Jack
>

OK  In tests done some years ago (maybe 10-15 years), Ivory Liquid
outperformed Safers' in comparative insect control.  Since then, Ivory Liquid
has changed formulation (it looks different, clear instead of milky) and
there is no reason to think that Safers hasn't changed too.  So the trials,
if they were meaningful, would have to be done again.

But they aren't.  Because Ivory Liquid still work's great and is much cheaper
than Safers.  I always add a glop (you know, the stuff goes glop, glop, glop
out of the bottle) of liquid seaweed to boost potassium ions.  This also
feeds the plant K and trace minerals as a foliar feed, improving its own
resistance and maybe, sometimes, improving its defenses.  

Moreover, I always use Ivory as a sticking agent with the seaweed, even if I
am applying BT.  You always get a number of pests on contact.  This is
particularly helpful with some caterpillars that are resistant to BT in
advanced instars, such as, say the third instar on of gypsy moth.  (Special
gypsy moth strains of BT that are effective on older larvae are made, but I
don't know how to get them.  They ARE more effective than seven and thus
safer for aerial application.)  Often, if you coat the caterpillar, the soapy
water with the seaweed kills it.  I suspect that even ones only weakend are
thus more susceptible to the BT.

I regard these measures as short term props until I get the balances shifted
in favor of my crops.  I have had to give away BT, etc., as I had no use for
it after three years on site.  In warm temperate situations verging on
subtropical, as well as in subtropical sites, it may take longer for natural
controls to kick in.

Meanwhile, my main pest is a bit larger than a caterpillar.  Any ideas on how
to control, or better to harvest, armadillos?  They live on invertebrates and
root up our mulch at night so that it looks as though a mob of hogs and run
through.  I prefer solutions that do not involve installing flood lights and
getting up at 2 a.m.  Tree crops are an eventual solution, but I still like
my greens and one does crave spinach, swiss chard, and sweet potato greens
from time to time, despite the edibility of mulberry leaves.  I have no
objections to wiping out the local population, so long as it does not involve
leg traps (I hate these.) or painful poisons.  I do have recipes.

For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since
1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and now correspondence
courses via email.  One is now underway.  Next Live program:  Paraguay, 9/98.
Internships available. Copyright, 1997, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52,
Sparr FL 32192 USA  [email-masked]  

We don't have time to rush.