Subject: Re: Permaculture Internships - Australia

From: Scott Pittman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:06:28 -0800 (PST)

At 19:14 3/1/98 +1200, Fiona Campbell + Russ Grayson wrote:
>David de Vries wrote:
>> 
>> Nine week Permaculture Internship based at the Permaculture Research
>> Institute, Tyalgum, Tweed Valley, Australia.
>> 
>> To quote Skye:
>> " The minimum of 72 hours for the Design Certificate Course is obviously
barely sufficient to scratch the surface of what is possible. Many
participants leave these courses with a sense of being overwhelmed, and have
difficulty deciding where to start.<
>
>
>I can only agree with this. Perhaps the sense of being overwhelmed and
>confused explains why many PDC graduates simply fade form the
>permaculture scene.
>
I find it alarming that so few people seem to have considered the pedagogy
of the permaculture design certification course.  I think that the original
course outline and the presentation of the material to have been brilliant.
It worries me that so many graduates think that they have a better approach
and in the process lose the immediacy and fire of the original curriculae.
"If it isn't broke don't fix it!"

I think that the "overwhelm" is part of the learning process and that when
you hit that wall of not being able to control the radical nature of the new
infromation coming in, you "surrender" to the inevitability of having to
change your basic belief structure. In virtually every class that I have
taught either alone or with Bill there is a critical time, usually day four,
when there is a very distinct shift in consciousness among the students
where they stop the furious note taking in a futile attempt to capture data
and begin to acknowledge and recognize their own intuitive knowing, or
"common sense".  

I do agree that their should be follow up and that noone should attempt to
teach or design until they have some years of experience.  Originally the
two year practicum and then diploma application and issuance led to teaching
and design.

It seems that everyone is coming up with "new and improved" curricula which
I view with great suspicion - since the old has served us so well for so
many years.  I acknowledge that new data and technologies are necessary
upgrades to the information contained in the course.  

I have heard of courses that leave out pattern because it is "too difficult
to understand" - I rather think that the problem is that it is "so difficult
to teach".

Scott & Arina Pittman
Permaculture Institute
PO Box 3702
Pojoaque, NM 87501, USA

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From: Fiona Campbell + Russ Grayson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:47:20 +1200

> many years. <

Thanks for your informed comments Scott.

I don't view changes to the PDC with great suspicion if they adapt the
course to suit particular circumstances.I think this can be done without
diluting the PDC.

I don't see any problem, for example, with adapting the PDC so it better
suits application in large urban centres. We are currently adapting
material to suit rural Solomon Islands trainees working with our village
agriculture program for whom the material would otherwise be
incomprehensible.

I'm unsure whether one course can suit all circumstances. It's the same
with one style of delivery. Bill excells in presenting his format for a
course because he's a storyteller and because of the vast store of
experience and knowledge the man has.

There are other learning styles, however, which do not respond to Bill's
delivery. I have met people who have not responded so well to Bill's
courses. I have even heard of people leaving the course. What some
teachers do is to learn from contemporary learning research and present
materials in a variety of styles.

I guess this is all part of the evolution of permaculture. Now that Bill
and David, who developed the permaculture system of design, have passed
it onto the early adapters of the system I think we should expect an
expansion of teaching styles and, sooner or later, reworkings of
permaculture. Maybe the way we can judge them is to assess them with
permaculture's three ethics.

> to understand" - I rather think that the problem is that it is "so difficult

Yes, it is. Difficult but it opens people's eyes to patterns in nature
and to the fact that nature has already designed many of the solutions
we need.
>...Russ Grayson

-- 
PACIFIC EDGE PERMACULTURE
Russ Grayson and Fiona Campbell
PO Box 446, Kogarah NSW 2217 AUSTRALIA

Phone   02-9588 6931    (IDD-61+2+9588 6931)
Fax     9514 2611 (Mark fax: ATTN: RUSS GRAYSON - APACE) 
          (IDD-61+2+9514 2611)
Email: [email-masked]

Permaculture education, publishing, design. 
NSW co-ordinator, Australian City Farms and Gardens Network.

---

From: Fiona Campbell + Russ Grayson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:47:20 +1200