Subject: Radio show tomorrow and other stuff

From: "Guy Clark" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 05:17:57 -0500

Hey folks-
	I will be on a local one hour radio show later today (7 p.m.) on KOPN here
in Columbia, MO talking about genetic engineering and I have a couple of
hundred questions. I will limit them to just a few:

Does anyone have a good list of biotech employees that have gone into the
regulatory agencies? And did they go back to their former jobs when they
got done?

I am working on a list of companies/countries/agencies/groups that have
passed anti-GMO decisions, does one already exist, or the pieces of one?

I am also trying to make a list of GMO ingredients in our food supply, does
one, or the pieces of one, already exist?

I am working on the question from the perspective of arguments used by
apologists of the technology and why they are fallacious. Here are some of
the ones I am working on:

GMO foods are not significantly different than hybrids.
	Difference in kind, not in degree
	Not enough to regulate, but enough to patent
GMO foods are safe.
	To non-GMO farmers
		Genetic drift
		Increased prolificacy and promiscuousness of GMO's
		Superweeds/superbugs
		Genie out of the bottle problem
	To humans
		Concerns about increased food allergies 
		Unanticipated problems due to novel combinations
		Ethical and religious concerns
		Loss of antibiotics due to use of such as gene markers
	To the rest of the environment
		Terminator/Traitor technology
		Monarch Butterfly/Green Lacewing studies
		Concerns about damage to bird populations
	The difference between not proven unsafe and precautionary 		principle
GMO foods are well regulated.
	By whom? Revolving door problem
	Agencies caught between regulating/promoting technologies 		(witness
USDA's collusion in creation of Terminator)
	Regulation divided among different scientists in different 		departments
of different agencies whose agendas are 		not always in synch.
We need GMO's to:
	Feed the world
	Reduce the use of toxic chemicals
Those who resist the expansion of GMO's are:
	Tree hugging environmentalist/Luddites
	Foreign protectionists
	Irrational

So what am I missing? Please help. I will be at the farm most of tomorrow
picking for my CSA delivery/Wed. market.
Namaste',
Guy Clark

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From: "Sal" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:59:11 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: Joy Williams <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Radio show tomorrow and other stuff

> You're missing the point
> These are created to increase theuse of chemicals.
>
> All Bogus arguments
>
> I suggest you read up on http://www.rafi.org
>
> Wrong.
> >> You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: [email-masked]
> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> >[email-masked]
> >>
> >

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From: "Sal" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:59:11 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: Joy Williams <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Radio show tomorrow and other stuff

> >[email-masked]
> >>
> >

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From: "Guy Clark" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:43:09 -0500

Sal-
	Precisely, those are some of the arguments used by apologists that I will
be dealing with; they are certainly not my arguments. For me, they are
mainly wrong from a strictly logical standpoint whether they contain any
truth of not. I am merely trying to come up with all/most of the arguments
they use so we can deal with them one by one. Can you think of any others
that you have heard?
Namaste',
Guy Clark

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From: Marsha Hanzi <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 15:02:38 -0300

GMO's do NOT feed the world!   A recent survey of several thousand sites showed that they are
LESS productive than what is being used today.   So there is  absolutely NO advantage to the
farmer to plant them.  And they don't reduce toxic applications either-- on the contrary
Roundup Ready beans are organized to survive EVEN GREATER  applications of herbicides...

Marsha

Guy Clark escreveu:

> You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: [email-masked]

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From: "Sal" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:26:50 -0700

the one that may make u sound like a nut in this day and age is that with
many folks their eating is a religious issue.  many do not eat pork many do
not eat meat .  how can they follow there beliefs if man mixes up all the
genes. putting scorpion genes in a mango etc.  if man puts animal genes in
plants what happens to those vegetarians and if they put pork in the plants
what happens to many folks that for life it self will not eat pork. they
will stop at nothing all genes from anywhere or anything is up for grabs.  I
think no one wants to touch the religious aspect because they don't
understand what is really going on  I feel a cow is giving enough milk right
now. go back and read all the stuff that was said when the USDA let them
inject cows with a genetically engineered growth hormones.  made no
difference the fix was in. ask the USDA how many of those folks from
monsando came to work for the USDA in those days.   thats what open the
floodgates.    They are now changing life on earth as we know it by mixing
up all the dna.  I have seen them and I know them and I don't want them
genetically engineering my food.  they will not label
 they can not control what they are doing they cannot close the barn door u
know a lace wing larva can travel over 8 miles you think drift was bad wait
tell they start releasing dna changed virus,bugs,microbes etc.  they are
changing life on earth and changing dna and they don't know what they are
doing.  I think Frankenstein was better then these folks because at least he
was using all human parts.  they don't care what comes from where.
check out a organic growers web page
http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Guy Clark <[email-masked]>
To: permaculture <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Radio show tomorrow and other stuff

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From: Loren Davidson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:34:02 -0700 (PDT)

--- Sal <[email-masked]> wrote:
> genes. putting scorpion genes in a mango etc.

I always thought that the flavor of mango could use a bit more bite. :)

Loren

===
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From: Louise Crabtree <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:23:16 +1000 (EST)

> 	I will be on a local one hour radio show later today (7 p.m.) on KOPN here

etc...

Hi Guy

Unfortunately I don't have time to answer your questions and I think I've
probably missed your deadline, but you may want to check out the website
of the Australian Gene Ethics Network at http://www.zero.com.au/agen/.

Good luck

L

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* Chaos, panic & disorder - my work here is done. *
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