Subject: Organizing, Nationally, Bioregionally, as Design Course Teachers, etc.

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:12:19 -0400 (EDT)

In a message dated 10/8/97 1:22:41 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

>If this is true, it doesn't sound entirely consistent with principles of
>local/bioregional control and grassroots organization...which while not
>necessarily "100% Permaculture", are to me at least consonant with
>ecological principles.  This may not have occurred to the organizers...yet.

Well you have got me thinking on this one, Loren.  There are various concepts
at work.  One is a permaculture ethic to which all graduates of a design
course are SUPPOSED to accept as a condition for certification.  (If this has
changed, no one passed the word.)  A pamount ethic is that we do not compete
with one another.  This is not the most honored ethic in permaculture.  In my
1981 course, Bill declared that people were to set up "territories," and
other teachers were to come in only by permission.  Like the bogus copyright
on the word "permaculture", this proved very counterproductive. Later he
abolished the territories principle.  This was while the permaculture
movement in the US was still sort of young.  OK, now we have had teachers
associations come and go and for practical reasons these need to be larger
than bioregions.  How many teachers can a bioregion support?  (None in most
cases, but that is another issue.)  A couple attempts have been made at a
global teaching association, guild (in the correct useage here), whatever.
 These too have dwindled away.  

Permaculture teachers associations have important functions--to try to
encourage some sort of standards, to maybe set up some sort of certification
program for new teachers so that they have at least minimal qualifications,
to work on ways to develop the potential to teach permaculture.  The concern
of the Activist letter writers is that when the market is clear cut, a long
dry spell ensues and good people drop out of teaching--people from this North
American soil who live with the issues of the region.  This makes us
dependent on outside resources.  This is not good bioregionalism.  It is not
good permaculture.  My objection was to the approach in stating the problem.
 This is a professional matter and we should develop a professional forum to
discuss it.  I am talking about the profession of teaching full permaculture
design courses for certification.  For certification to mean anything, other
than more resume hype, we need to support a core of good teachers from this
region.  A bit of cross fertilization is helpful.  Maybe Bill can arrange for
some of us to now go and teach permaculture to an equal number of Australians
as a way to balance things out.  (That is unlikely.)  Ok, I don't have a good
answer.  I don't think that this is a problem to be solved at the bioregional
level.  I wonder how many courses now even include a section on
bioregionalism.  Something has to be cut as they get shorter and shorter.

Personally, a national organization of permaculture teachers, initiated from
the ground up and developed by consensus all the way through the process,
makes more sense than a national permaculture association for everybody.  I
agree with you , Loren, that bioregional groups are more apprpriate for grass
roots permaculture. (At lest I think this is your position.) And if there is
already a bioregional association and not a permaculture association, I don't
think the terminology is very important.  Permaculture and bioregionalism are
equally awkward terms.

I don't think that everyone gets to vote on what the teachers decide or what
their policy is.  If we do have a national grass roots organization, and I
haven't seen a justification for one yet, I certainly speak up for it
promoting our own teachers, just like any other trade association.  Anyone
with a passport and visa is free to teach here, obviously.  However the North
American association should first consider the health of North American
Permaculture, in my personal opinion.  However until such a group is formed
by some sort of general vote or acclamation, and until the officers are
selected by North Americans (and I do NOT mean self-selected North
Americans), I'm personally not interested.

Let me restate that I think teacher exchanges between continents are a good
thing.  Bill Mollison is a special case because of his unique role in
permaculture and in my view telling him not to come here isn't a productive
way to solve the problem.  Personally, I think it may be a really good idea
for him to come and give seminars for many of our teachers, for example.  It
is his charisma that has launched permaculture in North America, as with many
other places in the world. If permaculture is to survive and prosper, it has
to be on thicker gruel than charisma, but surely in all that experience, our
scores of North American teachers have much to learn.  I say this as one who
offers advanced training and so maybe I am undercutting myself.  The point of
the non-competition ethic is that we don't consider such matters in making
the best decision.

I'm really intereste in this issue as to how we associate.  We have had some
unattractive behind the scenes activity in permaculture that is not
consistent with our goals and I think that a proper framwork can divert a lot
of that counterproductive energy into more useful channels.  

For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since
1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and now correspondence
courses via email.  Next starts in Oct. 1997. Internships available.
Copyright, 1997, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192 USA
 [email-masked]  

We don't have time to rush.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 13:57:42 -0400 (EDT)

Oh, dear, not in permaculture, too! 

Seems like folks always get their panties in a knot over restraints in trade,
territories, certifications, competition and such. 

If anyone is any good at what they do, let 'em loose to share themselves if
that is their bent. I got nothing to loose but some learning to gain. 

Next problem is affording all these learning opportunities. And time to avoid
rushing, of course.

I'd give a lot to live next door to lots of you folks who snarl and rant on
this list Seems like it would be great fun and good learning, too.

Loosen up and open up. Everything to gain and nothing to lose. 

Greed ain't what its cracked up to be.

I'll wager you have a lot to teach me and I may have a little you can use,
too.

Milo Clark
Berkeley CA USA

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 10:51:28 -0400 (EDT)

>this list Seems like it would be great fun and good learning, too.

Milo:  how much is a lot?  It can be arranged.

:-)