Subject: RE: Ozark Challenges

From: April Sampson-Kelly <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:08:02 +-1100

STEVE< how are you?
haven''t you guys heard of the new technology, heaps better than 
poisons?
I didn't mention it cause I thought we were looking at simple low cost solutions.
Wiapuna In NZ have fought hard for their international copyright on this technology
so I advise you to seek them, I have an email somewhere for those interested.

The technology is simple, they use SUPER CIRTICAL hot water and it
kills all vegetation without poisons, and leaves a flattened mat of fibre in which
you plant the next day!!
it can even kill woody weeds - up to a certain thickness so is good for spot weeding around
established trees. it can also be very selective - used to mark lines in lawns for tennis etc.
If I had the time and interest I would start up a frachise myself. as It such wonderful potential -
as it goes I haven't got the time and apart from doing my own site - i haven't got the sales
skills.

lets try everything else  before the easiest most conventional way.
April

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From: 	Steve Diver[SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent: 	Tuesday, 25 March 1997 22:16
To: 	[email-masked]
Cc: 	[email-masked]
Subject: 	Re: Ozark Challenges

Bermudagrass is a serious deal.  It can destroy a 
good garden unless it is managed well. 

On several occasssions back in Oklahoma, I tried to 
hand dig a patch of bermuda lawn and pick through the 
rhizomes. After planting the garden, it failed unless there 
was systematic cultivation and removal of re-sprouts. 

If there was any slack in control of re-sprouts, the 
bermuda usually took back over.  

Here in Arkansas, I laid out 6 mil black plastic over a whole 
lawn area of bermudagrass, and left it there over 
the whole growing season.  It killed it dead.  

Not to waste the space, we grew melons on the plastic.  
Where the holes were cut in the plastic, bermuda came
through.  

Thus, smothering with plastic is a viable solution. 

But, if you are raising vegetables by plasticulture, 
be aware that it will poke through the transplant slots 
and be a major hassle. 

A heavy duty fabric weed barrier is identical to 
black plastic in the way it functions.   

It will smother bermuda if the piece is left intact or whole, 
but sprouts will reach for light it you cut holes for 
transplants. 

Thus, either plastic or fabric is an effective means 
if fallow is an option. 

Layers and layers of newspapers, followed by 6 inches 
of organic mulch will do the same thing as plastic or fabric.

I would not discount the use of Roundup herbicide for 
control of such things as bermuda, poison ivy, and 
japanese honeysuckle. 

Solarization with clear plastic mulch has been shown to 
work in southern regions (where the sun is intense). 

This involves tillage of the soil, followed by irrigation, 
followed by coverage of the whole patch with a huge piece of
clear plastic.  The solar rays catch underneath and heat the
soil to temperatures lethal to rhizomes etc.  This takes 
6-8 weeks.  

A double layer of plastic, or amendment with manure, 
have both been shown through research to increase the 
solarization effect and reduce the amount of time needed
to achieve lethal temperatures; i.e., 30 days instead of 
60 days. 

Tall, shade producing crops like corn, when combined with 
inter-rown tillage, are methods to weaken and suppress 
bermuda. 

I will never hand dig a bermuda lawn again.  I would use 
the no-till smother method.....whether plastic, fabric,
or organic.  

It is also important to keep a bermuda-free zone of 2-4 
feet away from the edge of your garden, if possible. 
Otherwise, it will creep back in and become a nuissance. 

steve diver

> The growing season is coming on-line, and I find myself once again
> confronting two of our eternal "challenges" in the Ozarks:  ticks and bermuda
> grass.  Now, I know some people say you can control ticks with guineas or
> chickens or ducks or geese, but I've never known anyone in real life who had
> any success with these techniques.  As for bermuda, I've tried everything
> from Round-up to buried flashing to digging out beds and laying landscape
> fabric down first.  Eventually, bermuda snakes its way in.   How are you
> folks dealing with these challenges?  Rebecca Bryant

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From: April Sampson-Kelly <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:08:02 +-1100

STEVE< how are you?

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steve diver

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:05:02 -0500 (EST)

In a message dated 3/26/97 9:48:36 AM, [email-masked] (April
Sampson-Kelly) wrote:

>so I advise you to seek them,
,,<<

Technology cannot be copyrighted.  It can only be patented.  Lots of people
in Florida use boiling water to kill fire ants and weeds.  We also use
ammonia for both.  Oviously, this is spot treatment not broacscale for
invasive grasses.

The natural way to kill solonaceous grasses is to fence the area to pigs.
 They will eat all the stolons.  In permaculture, we use the least technology
to do the job, no.  

In the states, we can rent, or presumably buy, propane steam generators which
would serve the function that April describes.  We also have, in blueberry
country, motorized flame throwers that weed by burning off surface
vegetation.  Blueberries get off on this and it keeps them producing.  I'm
describing the procumbant, lowbush groundcover type blueberry, of course,
though highbush varieties recover quickly from burning, quicker than most
competition also.  However this eats a lot of organic matter and the areas
where this is practiced are degraded.  Since blueberries are much more
tolerant of degraded soil than of competition, it works for them but at the
expense of the soil.  

Pigs are less intense energy sources, and get some of their energy from the
rhizomes they are to destroy. They are also self-replicating and can be eaten
when they have finished withthe job.  They have many other potential
functions ina  permaculture design Other approaches need to improve on pigs
in these regards or they are not the minimum change (energy) for the most
benefit, one of our over-riding criteria.    Such approaches might include
teaming up pigs with other animals.  They will not eat chickens that they
have know from piglethood, for example, though they will eat strange chickens
even in the presence of their piglethood poultry friends.  I imagine a food
shortage could void that generalization but mistreating animals, as with
inadequate feed and forage, is not part of permaculture either.  So it isn't
an issue.

I'm sure that a tactical nuclear weapon will also erradicate stolonaceous
grasses.  Lets just get back to permaculture, guys.

For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since
1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981). Next  correspondence
permaculture training by email starts in Aug., '97. Internships available.
Copyright, 1997, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 2052, Ocala FL 34478 USA
 [email-masked]  

We don't have time to rush.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:05:02 -0500 (EST)

,,<<