Subject: Mollison bashing

From: "Eugene F. Monaco" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:57:02 -0400

Well we might as well get a separate thread going on this one; those that
want technical dialogue only are advised to delete these postings.

I read with horror the letters to the editor in The Activist  about the
Mollison/DBlume fiasco in California, a permaquake.  Mollison go home and
garden it was said.  There are a lot of issues lurking in all that which I
am also noticing beneath the surface of the guild and wow posts and their
reprisals.

As was pointed out, the interpersonal relating, or lack thereof, is at the
heart of many of the problems we face: what ever happenned to village or
neighborhood?  So isn't it a surprise that this very thing erupted in
California and again here in the past few days?  Good for us.  Maybe we're
starting to work on this stuff now.

It was said that Mollison was stealing the few coveted students in the USA
for the once a year design courses he has held each of the past 4 years,
fueled by hype that each would be his last.  While California could book
350 students, we poor chicken farmers couldn't even fill our modest goals
of 20, or in my case, fewer.   Now all the money collected in California
would be pissed away on attorneys so the Blumes could argue it out with the
Mollisons/Pittmans.  What a shame and what a waste of resources.  Wouldn't
it be better if Bill just left N. America alone?  And worse yet, was he in
fact trying to raise money in the USA  for a project elsewhere?  How dare
he rob such a poor impoverished country?

Well my immediate reaction to all this, having been stung by the event
myself, was that it sounded like the Blumes screwed up, booking too many
people for the conditions; a classic type-1 convenor error.  And yes,
Mollison/Pittman should have been monitoring that too, them being
experienced and ultimately equally as responsible.

But does that mean that Bill should stay home?  I don't think so.  In my
case, I cancelled a class I was going to give in E. Tennessee and suggested
to some of the sign-ups that they go to Mollison if they could.  The
feedback I got was that the course was GREAT!!!  Certainly much different
than I could have done.  But I have to say, that when funds started running
out, I was wishing for those students.

There's this abundancy principle that says that if you believe in abundancy
you'll act like there's more than enough.  If you believe in scarcity,
you'll complain that Mollison is stealing all the students.  I think there
is a balance.  Starving deer at the end of winter know well the scarcity
principle, so do struggling permaculture consultants and teachers.  But
there is the other side.

Taken from a larger perspective, changing the economy of the USA to one
that supports permaculture is going to be a slow and difficult task. 
Permaculture seems so simple on the surface, but I can't tell you how many
folks I've talked to that say, 'I like my private garage and TV set, not
having to see the neighbors.  And living in the trees with the bugs?  Yuk,
no thanks.  I'll take my suburban american dream thankyou.  Please hand me
the remote and bring another budweiser on your way out."  Then there's the
business guy that says, 'It's not a moneymaker.  The free market has to
support it or it'll never fly."

So what we have underlying some of the Mollison bashing IMO is a case of
the capitalist market-based economy not supporting permaculture.  When we
left our Mollison courses we were filled with visions of being overrun with
jackfruit or silver perch.  An abundancy that would make us rich.  

The fact that some of us are piggybacking on Mollison's lead by teaching,
consulting, and publishing, and that we can't all make a living doing that
is to me a statement that we're missing the boat.  We have to create local
sustainable economy, and for that we need allies.  The more Mollison
spreads the word the better chance we have of developing those ecovillages
that promise to give us quality of life with abundance.  I think we need
more of Mollison, not less.  Anybody that has worked the corporate ratrace
ought to understand on a visceral level.  It's only great for those at the
very top.  And for all the sleeping suburban emulators of corporatia's
devil deal, nobody wakes them up like Mollison.

That we dedicated souls in the USA have to suffer in the meantime while the
consciousness shifts at it's glacial rate, is perhaps part of our tribe's
karma for consuming 5x the world average of resources (or more).

Nuf said.
Gene

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From: Lee Flier <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 16:56:09 -0500

>am also noticing beneath the surface of the guild and wow posts and their

Thanks Gene, for bringing this up.  You are so right!  And I am finding it
interesting and hearing some of the very same issues here that I heard in
California (yes folks, I was there).  I am writing a followup article for
PC Activist to present the other side of what I thought was rather biased
coverage, so I apologize in advance if I repeat myself there, but...

>fueled by hype that each would be his last.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."  I'd say Mollison follows that basic
travellers' rule.  So, when in the USA, shamelessly hype yourself in order
to make a quick buck.  Makes perfect sense to me. :-)

In any case, it only ultimately helps Permaculture teachers all over the
country that Mollison continues to teach here, no matter what he has to do
to get the attention of Americans (which hasn't been easy - Permaculture
seems to be everywhere reasonably well known to the average citizen EXCEPT
in the USA.  "The belly of the beast" as Bill called it).  The more
attention and media he can draw, the more opportunities it creates for
future students and teachers.  Let's face it, Bill Mollison at this point
stands the best chance of making Permaculture known to the American
mainstream, and that can only help the rest of us.  More on that in a moment.

>experienced and ultimately equally as responsible.

Actually, I don't think there were too many people at the course AT ALL,
and it was an honor and privelege to be among most of the people who were
there (just to clarify, I was at the Southern Cal. course which was not the
same one in which Bill and Scott had to make a dramatic exit from the
premises.  However it was the same promoter so the problems already existed
- and there was still a very large number of students).

I don't think any other teacher could have brought together such a diverse
and wonderful group of 125 people, who became a small village over the
course of two weeks and who continue to work together and network and will
continue in the future.  Yes it was a different TYPE of experience than the
typical (smaller) design course; nevertheless I thought Bill and Scott did
a tremendous job of communicating the material.  I wouldn't have traded
that experience, including the great energy and presentations put on by
fellow students, for anything.

I agree with you that I think the promoters screwed up, but not for that
particular reason.  The aggressive promotion of the class or the numbers it
drew didn't bother me one iota.

>to some of the sign-ups that they go to Mollison if they could.

Yes Gene.  I know all about that :-)  (I was one of those sign-ups that
Gene encouraged to go to the Mollison course!)  And I really do appreciate
it.  We need to see more of this kind of attitude in Permaculture (and in
general!).

>is a balance.

Absolutely.  But over the long haul I think you tend to get whichever you
believe in.

>the capitalist market-based economy not supporting permaculture.

Yes, most definitely.  But I guess, being a musician, I had no illusions
about that.  I already knew I would need a day job.  :-)

>When we

Well, I don't know.  I didn't leave with that impression.  At the very
least I realize that it takes a lot of time to create that abundance.  Then
again I guess I'm not terribly interested in being rich.  I'm interested in
living well.  I think those are two different things.

>is to me a statement that we're missing the boat.

Yes.  Also let's remember that Mollison didn't start teaching permaculture
until he was nearly 50.  Before that he had just about every sort of job
you could name, and THAT is what enabled him to become a good designer and
teacher.  In a permaculture-style economy, people will be multi-skilled as
we had to be in times past, and income will likely come from many diverse
sources.  The commentary we've seen here and in the PC Activist articles
suggests that a lot of teachers have their eggs in one basket and are also
attempting to hoard information that ought never to be hoarded.  This is a
very important issue, perhaps the very heart of the conflicts we are seeing.

At design courses Mollison always encourages students to become teachers;
he does not specify that we make a living doing that.  If we are living
well off permaculture PRACTICES then we can set examples for others and
they will want to learn from us.  And at that point we may not feel
inclined to charge them money for it.  It is my aim to have such a good
time doing Permaculture that my neighbors will all want to do it too.  And
if they do, we won't need to be rich.

>The more Mollison

Right on!  Another point that seems to be glossed over in all of this
controversy is that Bill Mollison is special.  Seems like an obvious thing,
but the idea that some people possess abilities that others don't seems to
offend a lot of liberal sensibilities.  Sorry folks, but I don't care who
you are, you're not Bill Mollison - if you were, you wouldn't be whining
that you couldn't attract enough money or students!  You may have as many
years of experience or as high an IQ, but you won't match his unique
perspective, born not only out of genius but survival and circumstance -
being in the right place at the right time to observe the sweeping
spectacle of change in this century.

I'm not suggesting that we never question or disagree with anything
Mollison tells us, but we SHOULD attempt to listen to him whenever possible
and dissect it later.  He is a treasure who won't be around forever, and
should be treated as such, warts and all.  It takes nothing away from the
rest of us to shut up and listen to someone who obviously deserves our
attention.  Just because none of us is Bill Mollison doesn't mean we have
nothing to contribute to Permaculture.  If you're secure with yourself and
trust your own resourcefulness you have no problem giving respect and
credit to your mentors.

Thanks again Gene for bringing this up and for your great perspective.
Much abundance to you!

= Lee =

==================================
Lee A. Flier
[email-masked]
http://lflier.home.mindspring.com
Atlanta and Ellijay, Georgia, U.S.A.