Subject: Re: Sustainability: Aa brief definition by John Ik

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:23:54 -0500

At 23:32 31-08-99 -0600, you wrote:
>So again - how are we going to get through to that demographic that i 
>observe every day of my life? - the one with huge disposable income, 
>irresponsible spending habits, the one that advertisers love to reach, the 
>ones who drive the BIGGER cars, buy the BIGGER house with the BIGGER TV in 
>every room?? And what about the demographic that aspires to be like this 
>group?

Have you read the book, "Winner Take All Society"?  I don't recall the
author but Amazon probably has it listed and from there you could hit the
library.  The author details some of the defects in the current economic
system's distribution of resources brought on by technological change.  He
explains the root cause of some of these "huge disposable income" problem
you mention above and offers some solutions.  He does not address the
associated abberant behaviors but it is fair to say that if you eliminate
the excessive incomes, you will eliminate most of the abberant behaviors
listed above.  

These solutions will not address the problems of "me above all else"
attitude that afflicts our world today but that is nothing that a good
"Attitude Adjustment Period" like a world war or world wide depression
couldn't solve.  Unfortunately, it will probably take something that
drastic to wind down the advertising machine and let peoples needs be the
demand driver, not artifically created, people's wants.

Below is a quote from Bart some time ago on Sanet that seems relevant.

"Personally, I suspect we won't make a lot of progress towards
sustainability until the economy as a whole moves beyond its current
frenzy of consumption and debt. With over 3/4 of adult Americans now
owing more money than they're worth --- and their "worth" anchored in a
bloated stock market and over-priced real estate --- we have
collectively frittered away 8 years of a strong economy. What we see in
the farm economy is only a *symptom* of the same rot.

Based on 1075 years of price series (Europe and America), the only way
economies move beyond such frenzies of debt is with a wrenching
contraction. This has happened three times, with the prices deflating
25-55% in 3 to 7 years ----  (1315-22),  (1596-99), and (1816-20). 

These transitions were very ugly, but in each case the economy emerging
from the wreckage was different than that which preceded it.  People
were forced by circumstances to think in new ways. Conditions are in
place for such a contraction in the industrialised world economy, and
emerging from the other side we might actually be smart enough to (include) a
substantial environmental component in our economic thinking. 

We'll certainly be badly enough shaken to entertain some new ideas
after 3 to 7 years of having our noses vigorously rubbed in the more
than ample evidence that what we were doing before didn't work."

Food for thought, Mike Miller

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