Subject: Re: Redwater, ticks and old grass [Ireland]

From: [email-masked] (Gib Cooper)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 07:34:49 -0700

In Oregon we have a similar scenario but I have never heard of a tick
problem. One scheme has been to plant harvestable timber bamboo on private
lands between the fence and the waterway. On the Coquille River, landowner
Barney Amdahl, purchased 3 bamboo species and using the State of Oregon's
program for riparian improvement had the fence and bamboo planted with the
state crew. This was 3 years ago. We are monitoring the progrees of this
planting.

Perhaps the planting of bamboo or willow on the otherside of the fence
would ease this stockman's fears. Perhaps he will appreciate another
marketable crop?

Sincerely,

Gib Cooper
Secretary, Oregon Bamboo Association

>Dear all,
>at a recent farm visit a cattle farmer pointed out that his obligation to fence
>off watercourses as part of an agri-environmental scheme presented him with a
>new problem. He claimed that the rank, old grass behind the fence would lead to
>increased numbers of ticks which in turn increases the risk of Redwater
>(Clostridium novyi Type D infection) occuring in his herd.
>
>Does anyone on these lists have any evidence (incidental/scientific) for an
>increase in tick populations in rank, old grass or any general
>information/recommendations on how to avoid Redwater infection?
>
>Many thanks in advance.
>Ute
>
>--
>Ute Bohnsack
>Sailchearnach
>Clogher
>Kilfenora
>Co. Clare
>Ireland
>mailto:[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:56:46 EDT

In a message dated 10/9/98 5:45:28 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

<< If you tell them to plant willows or
hawthorn they reply that they've been trying to get rid of the stuff for years
-
sure why would they go and plant it?
The current cattle culture here is a classic monoculture in a way. At present
I
am working on a small study about grazing management on calcareous grassland
in
the Burren karstic region in the West of Ireland. Most of the farms used to
have
a flock of goats, until about 30-50 years ago, which kept scrub encroachment
at
bay (hawthorn, sloe, brambles but mostly hazel). The goats were milked and the
kids were eaten. Now the dispersed goat populations have become big feral
herds
which do not do a good job on the scrub due to their sporadic browsing. They
have become a pest to the farmers as they compete with the cattle for grass
(even though goats browse more than they graze, 200 of them can quickly nibble
down a couple of acres of nice grass). In the entire region of about 700 sqkm
there is but one commercial dairy goat herd! The equilibrium is gone. The
farmers cry out that the scrub is taking over their land and what can they
about
it (bulldozing has recently been outlawed in certain designated areas under EU
conservation legislation). Farms have become much larger and there is less
manpower around, most farmers have gone part-time. What used to be one holding
is now just part of a bigger dispersed holding, so herding of goats is mostly
out. What do you do? I should also mention that from the conservation point of
view a mosaic of scrub + limestone grassland/heathland + limestone pavement is
the most valuable.
Neither the goats or the scrub are seen as a ressource. It's a classic case
of:
"I want to do this. How can I do it at all costs?" instead of "What has nature
to offer in this area and how can I make the most of the ressources that are
here." Not that the EU agricultural policy is helpful in changing those
attitudes...

Any furniture makers out there? Does anybody need blackberries, hazelnuts,
sloe,
yarrow, St. Johnswort, marjoram, thyme, hawberries? Kid meat? Hazel coppice?
Come to the Burren, it's here for the taking...

Greetings from the sodden place.

Ute>>

Hey Ute:

The only reason for growing hawthorne is to make shitloads of money--well
really one of a zillion reasons but the only reason for people with only two
or three values.  One you wouldn't want to undertake in hawthorn and the other
is threatened when you explain that you first soak the berries in perfectly
good alcohol.  Been there, done that (try to explain wealth vs. debt to
people).  

Speaking of getting rich, if you can breed goats to eat gorse (instead of
cultivate it, amost efficiently as pyromanical people do), you'd own ireland
in a week, and could then move to annex New Zealand.  

We see it in Georgia, USA, where I lived a short while back, around kudzu.
Probably one of the three or four most useful plants int he world--lets see
there's also neem, coconut, sweet potato, and of course gorse.  That's 5.
Gorse isn't quite as useful as the others, though, unless you live in a cold,
raw, rainy climate where firewood would be desirable.  It is a phenomenal
fuel.  Smart, since fire favors it.  People wouldn't use kudzu because they
hated it.  Kind of like not taking a present from hitler or somethng.  It was
real personal, that hate, and they couldn't see a plant just having its own
nature and being something that could fill their bellies and their wallets.  I
gave up on the Kudzu utilization project, though I still have the info if
anyone wants to revitalize some rural economies and fatten his/her own bank
account at the same time.

Probably you don't charge enough for your advice.  I'm beginning to believe
that the more one charges the more effective one is because the payers take
the advice seriously.  it costs too much to ignore.  Never mind if it is right
or wrong!

Have fun.  I don't try to convince anyone of anything unless they ask my
advice or mislead people I'm in discussion with.  There are enough people
looking for actual solutions to keep us all busy.

But hey, maybe you can find a way to help people get rid of that pesky peat.
I understand there is 3 or 4 percent left you haven't been able to eradicate!
Folks  will listen to advice on how to get the very last bet, you can bet on
it.

Best regards
Dan

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From: Xavier Dequaire <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:38:14 +0200 (MET DST)

>That bamboo idea sure is inspirational.

a nice source of Bamboos and bamboo-information is

La Bambouseraie
Prafrance 30140 ANDUZE
France

phone:  + 33  4 66 61 70 47
fax:      +33  4  66 61 64 15

they have a very nice and instructive catalogue, in several languages. It
is worth to get it.
with info about size, climate tolerance (down bellow -20 oC!), edible
sprouts etc.

it will confirm you that Phyllostachys ssp. can grow in Ireland,
Phyllostachys congesta is especially tolerant for water.
They is a large enough choice in the catalogue, probably more if you ask
them: they send all over the world.

yours

Xavier

==========================================
 XDi, X a v i e r  D E Q U A I R E  i n t e r a k t i v
CBT/Multimedia, Digital Video, MPEG, interaktiv opplæring
Developper-programmer-Instructional designer
phone: (+47) 6684 7983     utvikler/forhandler
< [email-masked] >--< http://home.sol.no/~xavierd >
XX    XDDDD
    X X    I    D
      X     .     D
      X     I      D
      X     I     D
    X  X   I    D
XX     XXIDD

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From: [email-masked] (Gib Cooper)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:10:59 -0700

>Thank you, Gib & Dan!
>That bamboo idea sure is inspirational. I have been contemplating bamboo for my
>own [little] site. Which species did you plant in Oregon, Gib?

At Barney Amdahl's riparian planting on the Coquille River in Oregon there
are 3 species he selected.

Phyllostachys heterocycla pubescens - MOSO BAMBOO
Sasa kurielensis
Pseudosasa japonica - ARROW BAMBOO

It was planted in 1994-1995. He told me a few months ago that the plants
are finally beginning to make leaps in growth.

We hope to write an article about this for the Oregon Bamboo Association.

This is to show there are several bamboo books available for
Bamboo Identification/Photo Books: ( domestic prices are from Tradewinds
Bamboo Nursery, ask for the full email list of books and plants)

A Compendium of Chinese Bamboo  $90
Bamboos of the Chitou Forest Recreation Area    $25
Bamboos of Bhutan               $12
The Bamboos of Nepal    $12
Catalog of the Bambouseraie de Prafrance (in English)   $12

Another book from Tradewinds is:

"Bamboo on the Farm" by Daphne Lewis      $20

Daphne's new booklet is available:

"Hardy Bamboos for Shoots & Poles  - Thirty Varieties of
Bamboo for Farms in USDA Zones 7, 8, 9." is ready. It is intended to enable
farmers to decide which species to plant. It is not an ID book. It has 28
pages and no illustrations except the drawing on the cover, by John
Bettman. It describes species of Phyllostachys in chart form to make
comparisons easier. The headings are: Northwest height in feet [Max U.S.
height],  Maximum diameter inches [Max US. diam.], Minimum temp Fahrenheit,
Quality of poles & wood, Quality of shoot, Shoot season, Forage quality
[August measurement] % protein, % fat, Previous flowering dates, Flowering
cycle in years, first introduced to U.S. Plant Introduction #, and
Comments. The Comments column takes up a whole page whereas the other
columns all fit on one page. Synonyms are given and the meaning of the
scientific name.  The text was edited by Gib Cooper, Richard Haubrich, Adam
Turtle, and Rick Valley. One page is headed "Why Plant Bamboo on the Farm?"
Six pages are devoted to "Explanation of Headings".
        James Clever is handling the sales and marketing of this book.The
book mail orders in the United States for $12 and sells retail for $10.00.
The minimum wholesale order is 12 books. Wholesale price is $6.00. To order
send a check to James Clever, the Bamboo Gardener,  (206-782-3490) 2609 NW
86th Street, Seattle Washington 98117 USA.  I will post costs of shipping
outside the US.

Contact Daphne at <[email-masked]>
-----------------
Gib Cooper

Gib Cooper
TRADEWINDS BAMBOO NURSERY
28446 Hunter Creek Loop
Gold Beach, OR 97444
Tel & FAX: 541/247-0835
http://www.harborside.com/bamboo/

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From: [email-masked] (Gib Cooper)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 07:34:49 -0700

Sincerely,

Gib Cooper

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:06:22 EDT

Subject: Re: Re: Redwater, ticks and old grass [Ireland]
From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:05:24 EDT

In a message dated 10/7/98 2:36:54 PM, you wrote:

<<In Oregon we have a similar scenario but I have never heard of a tick

Sincerely,

Gib Cooper
Secretary, Oregon Bamboo Association>>

Nice suggestin, Gib:

Much of the best work in hybrid willow was done in Ireland.  I don't know what
species of bamboo they would use--Maybe Phyllostachys congesta?  Bamboo is
less tolerant of seasonal flooding than willow, particularly Phyllostachys spp
which is about the only genus they can grow in Ireland, I'd think.   Both
plants are suitable as emergency or supplemental fodder, though willow
produces more and is more resiliant.  Basket willows can be a nice touch.
Geese will keep the grass mowed without breaking down the banks.  Hawthorns
can be used as a partial barrier to cattle and the fruit used as fruit or
medicine.  Possibly some species of Mayhaw, the large fruited hawthorns, will
grow there (I don't recall the part of ireland we are talking about.)  Some of
the chinese species also might suit and might be better climatically adapted,
though in any case I'd use local wetlands species as rootstock.  (I've seen
them in ireland, as well as a crab apple growing in standing water that would
make a dynamite root stock for apples in that sodden place.)

For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since 1982),
Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and annual correspondence
courses via email.  Copyright, 1998, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52,
Sparr FL 32192 USA  Internships. [email-masked]  

We don't have time to rush.

A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at
http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/ypc_catalog.html
Elfin Permaculture programs are listed at the Eastern Permaculture Teachers
assn home page: http://home.ptd.net/~artrod/epta/eptahmp.html

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:56:46 EDT

Ute>>

Hey Ute:

Best regards
Dan

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From: Xavier Dequaire <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:38:14 +0200 (MET DST)

La Bambouseraie
Prafrance 30140 ANDUZE
France

yours

Xavier

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From: [email-masked] (Gib Cooper)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:10:59 -0700

Gib Cooper