Subject: RE: Vegan Pc - again

From: "Eugene F. Monaco" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:08:25 -0400

One more problem with acting as though animals don't exist in the system is
what happens when we fail to assume our role as the human caretaker.  I
don't have all the answers on this one, but it seems to me that in a
balanced system, natural selection should occur.  If not natural selection,
then some sort of planned selection.  In either case we become predators:
either selecting certain plant species at the expense of others we deem
less desirable; or by hunting.  Hunting done with respect  strengthens the
herd.  We should always take the slowest and weakest, using every part of
the plant or animal as much as we can.  In this context, we have a duty to
hunt and select.  Failure to do this, to assume our role as the human
caretakers, is as serious a violation in permaculture as any other.

Gene Monaco

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From: [email-masked] (jenifer a white)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:20:01 -0700

I will only type a little on this subject, as it is probably wearing
thin.

Please tell me if I appear to be a tad bit naive, but being a vegan and
living among animals, to me, does not seem contradictory.  As a
vegetarian who has went back and forth being a vegan, (It is very
difficult for me to eat a cheeseless pizza, and I am in counseling if
anyone is curious...hee hee... ), I have never really questioned the
place animals have in PC.   Just because I choose not to eat animals, I
do not discount their importance in ecology.  I happen to love the
chickens that peck around my home, scratching for insects and pooping
everywhere.  Geese make wonderful watch dogs among other fine traits. 
Goats perform inventory control and eat many predacious plants, and then
some.  There are many other animals that work well in a PC environment,
and then there are those that, well...  

I, myself only live with chickens.  Simply by default as they were here
when I moved into my home.  I would not however consider them as
potential food or nutrients for myself.  I am well fed off of plant
matter.  If anyone is wondering what then happens to all of those chicks
that hatch, a few have lived to become adults.  Most however, are eaten
by creatures such as coyotes, who cannot go to the local market to buy
free-range chicken with no added hormones.  Then again, those coyotes are
sneaky fellas.      ;-)

One quick anecdote:

A friend of mine stopped by one time and we sat outside and watched a
mother hen teaching her chicks how to scratch and peck.  He asked me if
he could have a few of the babies once they got a bit bigger, as he was
eager to try the "chicken tractor" in his garden. 
I answered,  "I don't know.  They're not mine.  You'll have to ask their
mother."

Eat well everyone!

Jen White
Modesto, CA

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:52:22 -0400 (EDT)

Jen:

The meatless or vegetarian discussion sometimes sounds proselytic. And 
there are those who merely say, "I choose to feed myself in this way". 
The diversity of choices for how one feeds oneself in this world is just 
another sign of how we reflect the Earth's diverse cultures (human and 
otherwise). 

The story of Sky Woman and corn, beans, and squash has a fascinating
wrinkle I've always thought had intrinsic lessons. For instance I've heard
that red meat contains 12 amino acids, but that corn/beans/squash contains
10 proteins. I've often thought that the two proteins missing from the
Three Sisters might account for some differences in human temperament. The
myth of meat-eater Amerindian hunter-gatherer society's is set against the
wide agricultural variety. We also ate lots of fish, fowl, and small game. 
Red meat was a festival and ceremony food, eaten far less frequently than
was thought before. 

We seemed wary of two proteins that triggered barbarism. But I haven't
been able to find a name for those two proteins in our arts and sciences.
I believe they're in there somewhere. 
All Food Is Medicine. Niawen.

Michael Doxtater
Thohahoken,
Cornell University

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From: [email-masked] (jenifer a white)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:20:01 -0700

One quick anecdote:

Eat well everyone!

Jen White
Modesto, CA

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:52:22 -0400 (EDT)

Jen:

Michael Doxtater
Thohahoken,
Cornell University