Subject: Re: perm. definition

From: Paul Meleng <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:26:53 WST

Try something simple like  ..... A culture or way of living and 
designing things that makes it cheap, healthy, sustainable and good
fun to live well.

Paul Meleng                            Perth, Western Australia
[email-masked]                Tel.(08) 9381 3395

"From hand to hand the greeting flows. 
 From eye to eye the signals run.
 From heart to heart the bright hope glows.
 The seekers of the light are one."   ........Samuel Longfellow

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From: EMANUELE JOHN GELSI <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:41:03 +1000 (GMT+1000)

To Victor Guest and All,

On what basis would permaculturists believe that we can produce the
world's food on 4.5% of arable land? Have there been any studies which
quantify permaculture production of food?

Emanuele John Gelsi 			[email-masked]
Dept of Anthropology and Sociology  	University of Qld	Australia

Christians Respecting Earth And The Environment 
http://honey.acu.edu.au/~tony/create.html
Australian Coalition for Economic Justice
http://www.slq.qld.gov.au/cwpp/acej
On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Victor Guest wrote:

snip> 
> 
> Monoculture as a sort of rule of thumb can only produce about 10% of the 
> natural bush. The microcosm's around a house can produce all of the
> environments from temperate to tropical. If the house covers half the block
> in a 20in rainfall and we save the water from the roof area. and use it to 
> grow food, we are effectively in a 40inch rainfall. Permaculturists believe
> that we could produce the worlds food on 4.5% of the arable land.

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From: Martin Anda <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 16:25:19 +0800

If you include greywater reuse with the rainfall you have doubled off the
roof area you have more water and more nutrients.  This could be included
in the calculation.

Martin Anda
Research Associate
Remote Area Developments Group
Tel 61 8 9360 6399  Fax 61 8 9310 4997
Environmental Technology Centre
Tel 61 8 9360 6123 Fax 61 8 9310 4997
Murdoch University
Murdoch  WA  6150

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From: Victor Guest <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:14:19 WST

>quantify permaculture production of food?

I don't know of the studies I only can pass on to you the Philosophy.

Most suburban homes in Australia (as an example) if they planted food in 
their gardens could produce 60-70% maybe more of their needs.
plus eggs, nuts meat, fruit etc. If we see what the potentials are if you
use all the microcosms which are in an enviroment this potential is 
possibly more like 90%. the other thing here is that the health of these 
people would improve dramatically.
We would not need to worry about income so much if we had a smaller need.
We would need to get our farmers to rethink their production streams and
we could grow more trees and return more land to wilderness.

By enhancing nature (permaculture) we can possibly grow more than whatever 
is the seen as the natural potential now. You need to read "The One Straw 
Revolution" to get the concepts which have as we understand not been 
eclipsed by anything of an artificial chemical nature.
Christians Respecting Earth And The Environment and the Australian 
Coalition for Economic Justice, are both groups who could do to study 
these techniques as well as Holistic Management.

>> that we could produce the worlds food on 4.5% of the arable land.

Regards,
          Vic
--
Victor Guest   V.G.Guest                       Perth, Western Australia
[email-masked]                  11 Carew Place Greenwood 6024 
                ----: Sustainable Agriculture :----   Tel. (09) 2464674
--: The Land Management Society & The Permaculture Association:---
           --:http://www.eepo.com.au/permacul.html:--
                 -----: Men Of The Trees :------
           ------: Revaluation Co-Counseling :------
                -----: AAEE  and Greenteach :-----
                 http://www.eepo.com.au/~victor/

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From: Paul Meleng <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:33:43 WST

How about the woman in the USA who builds greenhouses on an
area equivalent to 16m by 16m ( the average australian backyard)
out of which she feeds HUNDREDS of people a green salad lunch each
day. !  This greenhouse uses ramps for vertical stacking, water,
and small animals and adjustable cover and shade etc to maintain
constant temp & humidity , and once fully stacked and functioning
the whole thing runs off sunlight, water and human guidance. The 
particulars are buried somewhere in my stack of old e-mails but
the point is made.  Who cares if there are "studies" . The fact is
we know we can make typical agriculture figures look like a joke
so just get on with it.  What we want is more people doing it
on the ground and less "studies".

Have fun all.

I am a good guy
I am one of the many good guys
and the bad guys are good guys too.
			-Harvey Jackins-