Subject: Research on fertiliser runoff

From: [email-masked] (Colin Shaw)
Date: 24 Jan 1997 17:41:04 GMT

I am looking for research that gives some idea of possible
runoff od chemical fertiliser applied as a top dressing
and the same for organic growing using compost or
composted manure. Does anybody have ideas as to
where to look for such data?

Colin Shaw
[email-masked]

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From: Mark Ludwig <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:53:00 -0600

>where to look for such data?
Hi Collin,
A very important distintion in more sustainable ag.  is the application of
compost verses other sourses of nitriogen.   In compost the Nitrogen is
generally stable.  Some may have volitillized out in the process of turning
the raw materials into compost, the rest is tied to carbons or chemically
less water soluable.  Manures are intermitant, and generally fresher manure
has more soluable nitrogen.  N concentration varies from species to species
and in farming by handleing method.   In a pasture situation, especially one
where soils are active with decay organisms and some insects, fresh manure
will be rapidly dispursed and incorperated into soils.   This is basically
micro sheet composting, with N also  being taken up by the plants, reducing
runoff potential.  Pastoral soils will also gennerally have better
infiltertion than crop ground and less run off.          Issues also arise
where minerals are fed to animals at high rates.  Phosphous and calcium are
fed at pretty high rates to our dairy animals and this is reflected in the
manure and urine.   A consideration also is that added P may help capture N
that would other wise volitilize, making stronger compost.  Lots of other
issues to the topic of compost, bottom line is that its great, predictable
life giving material and its worth doing.
Chemical fertilizers  are a mixed bag.  By chemicals I have to include
things like gypsum (calcium suphate) and lime, both excellent soil
amendments in their place.  Also included Anhydrus Amonia, pure liquid
amonia gas which is a highly reactive chemical and kills soil life like
crazy while burning up humas.    Comercial N fertilizers all volitilize
and/or disolove in water.  Most others disolve and run off to some degree.
Theres lots of good agronomy data on it in the Ag. collages of the world.
Must go...
Mark Ludwig

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From: [email-masked] (Colin Shaw)
Date: 25 Jan 1997 10:07:59 GMT

Hey Mark thanks for a brilliant reply! I have got into a big
argument on the uk.rec.gardening newsgroup about the
differences beteen pollution levels in water courses between
chemical fertilizers and 'natural' manures. There is some
stuff about runoff and I think the levels of pollution of
the UK water supply speaks for itself. I agree about 
composting animal manure and _know_ that there
is no comparison between organic vs chemical
fertilizer but I am no scientist and needed some
support. I have an organic veg garden
and am fascinated by compost!

Colin Shaw.

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From: April Sampson-Kelly <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 10:48:48 +-1100

>I am getting a lot of insults in uk.rec.gardening because I
>dared to suggest that there was no need to use chemicals 
>in the garden. 
well a lot of jobs and more likely a lot of arrogance/superiority of the
educated (dare I suggest this as I do have too many letters after my name)
are at stake when we suggest a simple way to do things.
I muck about a bit like an Aussie larikin and this gives people the opportunity
to think "She's simple, that's why she likes simple things."

>I make compost but am always trying to improve it. 
I no longer make compost for three main reasons.
1.  compost is a waste of mulching material
2. compost attracts and breeds fruit fly and I am battling this year after year
organically, it nearly has me turning to chemicals I tell you!
3. I have worms in a polystrene box, they like fibrous composting
materials for bedding  - they take a lot less patience
than a good brew of compost, they eat everything that the hens and ducks 
wouldn't eat.  The resultant fertilizer is like black gold and great as a seed
raising mix. AND Worms will eat weed seed, weed tubers etc whereas compost will 
nurture our weeds/weed seed.

I know the art of composting gives a lot people a fun pastime,
so I am only talking about what is relevant to us and our situation.
>What
>sort of gardening do you do? 
I do permaculture, I am now over 30 and too busy -
I need my exercise to have productivity
and I like my work to build into long term goals.
I love gardening but I like it more when I can eat it
and it tastes great.
Where are you in Oz? 
south of Sydney a little North-west of Lake Illawarra, in a village called
Mt Kembla - I have a home page which is growing and growing
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~askpv/index.html
I
learned my gardening from my father and grandfather,
he came to the UK from Oz!

rgds

Colin Shaw