Subject: Harassed Permies

From: "Paul Gill" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:53:06 +0000

Hello all,

This is my first post to the mailgroup, so I will apologise in 
advance for any stuff ups I make. They are not intentional, either in 
this message or future messages and relate entirely to my own 
incompetence. I will also apologise now for spelling.

I am looking to see if anyone has had a similar experience to that of 
my friends and I, trying to establish a permaculture property in New 
South Wales, Australia.

In the time we have been trying to do this, since 1984, we have 
become the targets of harassment from various people in the local 
community. We have always gone out of our way to assist the community 
and to avoid any difficulties. And most of the people concerned have 
had little to do with us anyway, so it isnt like we have upset them.

The harassment has included killing of livestock (which led to a 
local police officer facing charges of perverting the course of 
justice) and last week, the caravans at the farm were doused in 
diesel and set alight. Total damages bill, around $50000, possibly 
more.

We are having a meeting in the next few days to decide if the best 
option is to rebuild or to move to another district.

If this is widespread sort of thing, then I guess moving solves 
nothing. If it is isolated, then it does solve something.

So is this the sort of thing that is happening to others?

Paul Gill
Canberra Australia
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:23:51 -0500 (EST)

First, Paul, our sympathy and support.  Othewise, I'm dumbfounded.  

The decision whether to leave or face the rednecks down (at least that is
what we call them here) is a hard one and no one outside the community can
help you make it.  We've just moved into the heart of redneck country in
Florida.  We've had no problems.  I've only had that sort of problem once,
before the word permaculture was coined.  My wife and I moved from New York
City back (for me) to rural Massachusetts and the worst that it got was
people opening our mail, which is a serious matter in the US but hardly as
serious as burning people's homes.  Well, we also had some trespassing by
racoon hunters.  Both were handled by making it vividly clear that people
could not mess with us with impunity.  After that we were left alone.  The
chief of police himself, who was a reputed child mollester and a general
creep, would not get out of his car in our driveway.

I have to ask why these people think that you are different.  In my case, it
was because (as a freelance writer, which they didn't know about) I didn't go
off to work everyday.  I think people thought I was a drug pusher.  They
decided not to find out.  It seems really important to identify what set
these people off.  

If you stay, I advise you to bring every conceivable form of wrath down on
the people who are harassing you.  The meek won't inherit the Earth if they
are already dead.  

For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since
1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and now correspondence
permaculture training by email. Copyright, 1996, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O.
Box 2052, Ocala FL 34478 USA  [email-masked]  

We don't have time to rush.

In a message dated 1/12/97 6:56:43 AM, [email-masked] (Paul Gill)

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:11:32 -0500 (EST)

Paul Gill, Canberra, NSW, Australia

Sorry to hear about some local nutcase killing your livestock and torching
caravans.

Unfortunately, you seem to be victim to a rather common reaction to
difference. That you choose to identify your difference as "permaculture" may
be unconnected to the reactions. The kinds of people who react in these ways
are called various names, perhaps the least of which may be reactionary.
There is also a rather high incidence of such minds among the authorities,
constabulary and self-appointed enforcers of sameness. Moving probably won't
solve anything, either, as you note. 

We sometimes have "success" in formal attempts at conflict resolution,
mediation and such. Dealing with the physical looses is one thing. The
presence of random violence beyond common reason with anticipation of
repeated offenses haunting every night is both sickening and saddening. Most
often survival amounts adopting a bit of protective coloration, local camo
and hanging around long enough to find some degree of acceptance. 

I suspect there are others in the community who view these actions as
cowardly, in the least. Seeking alliances with them or shaping their opinions
in some forms of overt support may lead to unexpected benefits. Often,
silence is seen as approval and encouragement.

Milo Clark
Berkeley CA USA

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:11:32 -0500 (EST)

Milo Clark
Berkeley CA USA

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From: April Sampson-Kelly <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:01:17 +-1100

Paul 
I have had the opposite and I too am in NSW, I urge you to move.
unless you grew up in that region or have family nearby
OR have so many plants that to leave them would break your heart.
This is our second site, yes it was hard to move, but mainly 
because we were on a sunless site, had very conservatie neighbours,
and were running out of space for gardens, we did it.
I dug up a lot of plants and took them to the next site, they all survived.

We are over 30 now and figured we wanted an established canopy
as we didn't want to wait another 15 years, we chose a village that
had a truly diverse population, a few radicals and some greenies,
hard nosed commercial types etc.  We have had always had respect
if not support and encouragement.  I give a lot of produce away 
where possible as this really helps to build community spirit.

I gather from your post that your not living on site, it really helps to
be living ON SITE
as others nearby feel that you are one of them and will help
you seeing you are there to defend yourself and them if need be.
 
Have you spoken to others in the canberra permaculture association?

Find peace, join a caring community and build your haven.  
from this you can get the energy to move onto bigger challenges.
April
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~askpv.index.html

PS I see someone wrote: If you stay, I advise you to bring every conceivable form of wrath down on
the people who are harassing you.  The meek won't inherit the Earth if they
are already dead.  

well you can't fight fire with fire and Australia is quite different
from the USA, 
I have a permie friend in California who is regularly shot at
but those "rednecks" and still hangs around.
Permaculture teaches harnessing of energies, working with not against
the nature of things and this includes yourself
WORK where it counts, work on projects that give you great satisfaction.
Does fighting for tenancy over a piece of land gives pleasure when
each moment we wonder is this peace before a storm?
After driving to Perth AND back
I can tell you there is a lot of land here to find challenges in.
It is family, friends and community that you can find peace with.
April

----------
From: 	Paul Gill[SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent: 	Monday, 13 January 1997 8:53
To: 	[email-masked]
Subject: 	Harassed Permies

Hello all,

Paul Gill
Canberra Australia
[email-masked]

---

From: "Mr R.J. Morris" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:41:47 GMT

Paul,
	Sorry to hear about your neighbours. Your problems kind of
put those experienced by PFAF into context. 

	We've never experienced any violence or vandalism, but theres
been a lot of talking behind our backs. The big problem we have
experienced has been with the parish council. All the applications 
for planning permission have been turned down, including one for
a pollytunnel. We'ed also like to live on the land but applications
to do this have also been refused. We are now looking for a new site
where it will be posible to live on the land. Suprisingly people
higher up in the buricratic ranks have been helpful, permaculture
seems to fit very nicely into Agenda 21 and the county council is
obliged to suport such activities, they may help us to find a new site.

	Moving is going to be a problem. Some people in the group are 
very attached to the land and don't want to go. Others have had enough.
Part of the project was planting a woodland area, so we are not going
to be able to uproot the several thousand trees there. We are thinking
of putting the land into a trust, preventing it being turned back into
normal agriculture.

	As to sollutions to the problem, I've no real advice. We've
tried having open days so that the project is demistified, but
most of the locals don't show up for these. Getting to know the
local community so that they know your not from mars probably helps.
Oh yeah, looking like a bunch of hippies is probably a bad idea.

	Hope you manage to find a solution

		Rich

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plants for a Future: more than just potatos.
http://www.liv.ac.uk/~rmorris/pfaf/index.html

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:53:34 -0500 (EST)

In a message dated 97-01-12 07:56:32 EST, [email-masked] writes:

<< If you stay, I advise you to bring every conceivable form of wrath down on
 the people who are harassing you.  The meek won't inherit the Earth if they
 are already dead.   >>

This is very poor advice.  Many of your other responses to peoples queries
about  permaculture have led us to believe that you are a very wise person,
but now I am wondering??  What if  these people followed your advice?  This
is how wars are started.  Just shift the scale to a national level.
 Retaliation does not work.
  Without knowing all the details of the situation it is diificult to advise
these folks how to respond.  I would like to know how this kind of behavior
was solicitted.  Rarely does this kind of blatant attack come without some
kind of provocation.  Maybe the victims don't feel they did anything ...
 Something is going on... Look at the deeper issues.  the answer is right in
front of you, not in cyberspace. Best wishes  JB

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:53:34 -0500 (EST)

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From: [email-masked] (Olafur Brentmar)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:37:05 -0800

Paul,
you are not alone in your experience. We got attacked by our neighbors and
the county after we applied for a permit to establish a horticulture school
on a rural farm in Oregon. One of our neighbor, a real estate developer,
organized a disinformation campaign filled with hatred and fear of hippies.
We recieved hundreds of slanderous letters opposing our project. Mostly it
was said that our presence would reduce the value of their properties but
also that we would cause crime and trouble, become a cult or even worse. It
was a most disheartening description of us and our project that came to us
and the front page of the local papers. 

We decided to fight back in court - and after three years we won (in Oregon
Supreme Court) the right to establish a school on farmland, with all
buildings essential for its operation. We have spent another year arguing
with the county and neighbors about what buildings are essential. 'Them'
claiming that education can be done without any buildings and us explaining
what is essential in our opinion. We're supposed to get a ruling at the end
of January.

As we won in the high court we over-turned 23 years of case law, opening up
for schools and churches to get established on farmland. In so doing the
property that we lease doubled in price. While we were in litigation we
were banned from doing any education on the land. So we grew organic seeds
to pay our attorneys, and enough food to feed ourself. Now the landlord
wants to sell at double the price it was worth when we got started (cuz our
court victory), and we do not yet know if we can do our school.

So ... We're packing down our belongings and have nowhere to go - there's
plenty of farmland around here but we might end up having to go though the
same courts again. The issues might even be the same ---- ignorance and
fear of alternatives that challanges someones belief structures.

We learned that there are those who want to beat you up for being in to
peace. Standing up for your rights is not the same as fighting back, but a
refusal to accept violence and ignorance to be victorious. We are still
hoping for magic to happen so that we can buy the land and build our
school. It's hard to do fundraising when you don't know if you can get a
permit for it.

I wish we knew other permies and found this network of support during the
years of turbulence. We learned about the weakness of the opposition, and
the strength of our determination for a brighter future. It sucks to get
beaten up and sit in legal limbo for years - I can't wait 'til it's over.
There is so much to grow and cultivate - peace and love does not just
happen - it takes a lot of work and patience for it to bloom and go to
seed.

So have faith you harassed permies and take it as a lesson in esoteric
cultivation of noble ideas, harvest the virtues and spread the seeds of
wisdom.
Compost their hatred, fear and ignorance as weeds and maneur - it'll prove
to be good fertilizer and power for the course.

peace is grown
olafur 

----------------------------------------------------------
 *************     Peace Garden Institute    **************
          P.O. Box 3179 - Applegate - Oregon 97530
 tel: 541 899 1704 - fax: 541 899 3904 - email: [email-masked]
                        **************

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:02:04 -0500 (EST)

>front of you, not in cyberspace. Best wishes  JB

I was talking from experience.  Turning the other cheek is a strategy for
rather select situations.  If you don't defend your home you are dead meat.
 Defense is not retailation.  YOu seem to have lived without benefit of
rednecks for neighbors.  That is good.  However if you draw a line in a
reasonable place and say this far and no further, that often works.  In this
country, non-reistance did not diminish the activities of the Klan, to take a
particularly difficult example.  

Specific tools for defence are indeed not clear from the situation.  That's
what they have to figure out.  The problem is, I learn from private email,
that the group itself is split on whether to roll over and play dead or
defend itself.  This is the worst situation and no one can help them with it.
 Until they are of one mind, they will have no power in the situation,
whichever strategy would work.  We also do not understand the amount of
protection that they can expect from the government in their country.  How
much protection do black youth's get from murder in US cities?  Not everyone
can afford to keep buying land until they find a place where people are nice
to them.

No doubt there was something that set people off.  Maybe it was planting
trees, for example.  I had a group in Mexico that was shot at while planting
trees.  What do you do?  Say don't plant trees?  I have put my life on the
line, literally, to support non-violent strategies in certain cases.  During
the civil rights movement, when white people were accepted as having an equal
interest in civil rights, I was a body guard for Martin Luther King when he
came to Boston.  My job was to place myself in the way of the assassin.  It
seemed to me reasonable to spread the risk--not to heap it all on this useful
and effective man.  This was a useful strategy at the time.  Out in the
boondocks where there is no one to get outraged when you get run over, there
is a different strategy.  If, on the way home from non-violent bodyguarding,
I had been jumped in an alley, I'd have killed the SOB if I could.  I don't
see the world looking at this little permie group in the boonies.  

And are you saying that the meek WILL inherit the earth if they are dead?
 Dead people inherit maggots.  If you don't protect yourself, you will not be
protected.

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From: [email-masked] (Olafur Brentmar)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:43:31 -0800

Paul,
I have earlier brought our situation up under subject: "documentation
support needed", just before winter solstice. We are not initiate permies
but rather an educational organic farm with emphasis on value-enhancement
and sustainable living. The term 'permie' does not exist in the local
redneck vokabulary, here it is 'hippie bashing'. Hippies are at the very
bottom of the social heap. - Charlie Manson / Jonestown / Bagwan Rajneesh /
Wako / Freemen are all grouped together into one huge fear of any aspect of
communalism. Worse than guns and religion together though, hippies are
generally suspected for liberal ideas about narcotics prohibition. Such an
alarming threat, to undermine the fast growing crime control industry,
warrants special heavy-handedness. Suspected association is enough for a
guilty verdict. There war is global, the issue of "harassed permies" is a
social consequence of war rhetoric gone awry.

>
>Yours is a familiar story. I have some friends who were involved with 
>Rajneeshpuram in Oregon, and I am amazed at the amount of opposition 
>that some people put up against them. When will the populace learn 
>that we (those who choose not to live as they do) are not out to 
>destroy or threaten them, but to just to coexist in harmony.
>

I few comments. Oregon has land use laws since 1973 which invites neighbors
to testify about their opinion about anything that is not a legislated
'regular' use. This invites and legitimizes biggotry dressed up in land use
clothing. 
Since the hearings are 'quasi-judicial' truth is not of essence, anything goes.
Most landmark decitions in landuse case law are set when fringe groups or
alternative lifestyle projects are challanged by neighbors. Social
engineering is the flipp side of citizens involvement. 

I understand from "Mr R.J. Morris" <[email-masked]> that similar
phenomenon takes place in the UK. Do you have land use laws in Australia?
And how is it elsewhere in the world ?

>
>Well, I guess Jesus was crucified and others have died because their 
>beliefs represented too radical a change for the larger masses. Our 
>time will come, one day.
>

Amen, heaven must be permie farm extraordinaire

>
>In the meantime though, I think that the main message that I was 
>trying to send was that this sort of thing happens. And while I do 
>not condone retaliation (except in moments of weakness when rifling 
>thru wreckage) I just wanted to let other groups out there know that 
>it does happen, and that if it is happening to them, they are not 
>alone.
>

I have been looking and waiting for this subject to appear here.
Is there any international permie lobbying group? If not I would 
propose that the time has come to address this issue for real.

>
>I was very interested in your comments and I just felt they needed a 
>response. Just to say that we will keep going, and so should you. 
>Happiness exists, its just that we spend too much of our lives 
>searching for it. :-)
>

Legal limbo, an extreme slow-motion discussion boardering time-freeze,
is a torture of frustration over lost creativity while trying to do,
what you know you ought to be doing, instead of really doing it.

>Have fun and good luck

Same to you all too - and further 
it feels like we are touching upon
an issue that is delicate yet very important.
Blessed are those that are free of this quagmire
for the rest of us it is an ongoing reality
that I want to master for peace
any feedback ? :-)

love
olafur and extended family

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:34:58 -0500 (EST)

One thing I did not bring up when this conversation was strictly based in
Australia was the second stage of my experience.  Once we got the rednecks
off our backs because we couldn't be bullied, then we became involved in town
government, which admittedly in New England (USa) is easy.  If you are a
registered voter, you just show up and speak and vote.  The town meeting is
the legislature and the executive branch.  For two or three years, I said
nothing, just voted.  Then I started to speak.  I got asked to fill one of
the volunteer positions on a board and ended up on the planning board (heh,
heh).  Once in this position, I calmly told the bigot who was tryin to use
the board to keep the poor, "hippies, and spearchuckers" (his words) out of
town that I would personally see in him jail if he did so.  Said in public
meeting with a full board present, this rather settled the matter.
 Fortunately, I lived in a place where such laws would be enforced.
 Moreover, I was by then on the inside and had a following at town meeting.
 Different personalities (which is almost everyone) would have to approach
the matter somewhat differently, but participation in the system is usually
possible in the US.  If you are shut out, you can always help a candidate
whom you think is sure to win.  This is a little crass, but it does give you
political clout.  And there are times to go to meetings with shit on your
boots and times to look "professional" (i.;e. dressed like the rest of the
sheep.)

	I remember testifying at a legislative hearing in Boston (Mass,. USa) as a
member of the town planning board from a very rural town.  I was clean and
neat, trimmed my beard, and wore what looked like (and was) the best version
of clothes that I would wear into the field.  I did wear my shitkickers,
minus the shit, and drew attention to them when I testified by looking down
at my feet a lot.  "Don't be shy, we are here to hear what you have to say."
the committee chairman told me.  (heh, heh)  So I stammered a bit and then
built up a bit of steam, when they were hooked, and laid my argument on them.
 It nailed them to the wall.  On the other hand, at local meetings I did my
best to dress a fair bit better than at the state legislature.  Strategy is a
part of permaculture.

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From: Daniela Roth <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:43:19 -0800 (PST)

hi olaf, 
I cant wait to come down there.Daniela and i got you a littel something that
you will like!!.I got my whole room packed in a few hours and my mom got a
littel bit done, but hay, my mom has more stuff than me!!!!
           i wish i could see you sooner than sunday,
                   love freya and co.