Subject: Prairies for pasturage

From: Mark Ludwig <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:29:52 -0600

At 09:58 AM 1/31/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Just one point on this excellent discussion:
>
>Because N is lost if not taken up when available, and lost as water
>pollution, we need a mix of species that function during as much of the year
>as possible.  In my observation, the most complete system is the native
>prairie, which is not merely a spatial mosaic of plants, but a temporal
>mosaic, with plants occupying almost the same space but putting on growth at
>different seasons. 

Mark, light weight prairie ecologist, says...
A major factor in the prairie system is the mix of C-3 (3 carbon
photosynthesis, or cool season) and C-4 (4 carbon, warm season) grasses and
forbs.  The C-4's are typically bunch grasses and take more time and care to
establish than the C-3's.  The growth curve of the C-4's almost perfectly
compliments the dip the c-3's take in mid summer.  The real tricky part in a
grazing system is growing these plants together.  In general the
recomendations I get are to grow C-4's alone or with a single legume
species.  In native prairies in the upper midwest we do get some cool season
native grasses that do well with the C-4's, especially Elymas sp. and Stipa
sp.  These species mix well with the C-4's and are your best bet for full
season growth.  I'm looking into using C-4 grasses, Cup plant (Silphium
perfoiliatum) and native legumes, esp. lead plant (amorpha canensis) as a
basic summer pasture with a little elymas as an early green up c-3 (Elymas
canadensis is also an excellent nurse crop for prairie development).  I
probably won't graze this until mid summer and stop in early fall when my
C-3 pastures come back in.  At this point I'm not trying to get a full
season mix, just not sure how to do it.  Any ideas on this?
Mark

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 07:51:55 -0500 (EST)

In a message dated 1/31/97 6:44:55 PM, [email-masked] (Mark

>season mix, just not sure how to do it.  Any ideas on this?

Mark, that's a really nice answer, which I am going to put into my files on
that subject as a gem.  However, you leave out the broadleaf plants
altogether.  Also some bunch grasses hear and there seem to have high sugar
contents (by the sophisticated analytical method of sucking the stems) and
probably contribut to overall digestion of coarse material.

As you know, I'm interested in sustainability and though not a finished
ecosystem, the grass, Indian, buffalo prairies were sustainable.  

I'm not sure where the fixation on grasses comes from in grazing.  I see my
animals eating leafy vegetation, including tree leaves.  Russion research
(which I read about second or third hand in the Maine Tree Crops newsletter)
indicates that poplar leaf and twig meal has feeding value equal to (or
slightly better than) alfalfa.  In my situation, where water competition is
not an issue, spot stands of poplar can serve as shelter (larger trees) and
feed, smaller trees, and I doubt that the grass will even notice that they
are there.  

It was the forb and broadleaf annual ebb and flow on the prairie, where I
watched it in Kansas, that fascinated me.  It didn't require a lot of inputs
to keep it productive and if we can make as much money with a more beautiful
pasture that emulates the prairie by spending a lot less to produce a little
less, I'm for it.

Dan

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From: "KAREN RUSS." <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:58:17 -0500

----------
> >forbs.  
(snip for brevity)

Cup plant (Silphium
> >perfoiliatum) and native legumes, esp. lead plant (amorpha canensis)

 (snip)

Dan wrote:
> altogether.

Hello,
 I think that you will find that "Cup plant (Silphium
perfoiliatum) and native legumes, esp. lead plant (amorpha canensis)" are
all broadleaves.

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From: Mark Ludwig <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 14:01:09 -0600

At 07:51 AM 2/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
> I'm looking into using C-4 grasses, Cup plant (Silphium
>>basic summer pasture with a little elymas as an early green up c-3 
>
>

Mark says,
Silphium sp. are all broad leaves, and big broad leaves at that.   There are
also other plants I'm looking at, but the university is looking into the
grazing managemet for cup plant already and you know how us farmers like
some certianty in agronomics if not economics...
You also mention the obsession with grasses, and I agree with your genneral
sentiments.  The main drivers of this in my opinion....
1. Many grasses are easier to mannage for persistency than legumes.
2. Grazing order preferances...
Cows graze (in order of preferance): Grass, broadleaves, browse
Sheep Graze: Broadleaves, grass, browse
Goats graze: Browse, broadleaves, grass.
This varies a little across breeds within species, but the general rule here
holds.
3. Hard to hay those little trees and shrubs.
4. Fear of bloat.

I'm looking for species which could be integrated into shelter belts and
provide some browse.  My cows currently eat a fair ammount on pine needles
and seem to relish them during our winter.  I'm also looking for leguminous
tree species, and am having plenty of luck.  An advantage to feeding browse
may be that the Phenols and tannins in the wood may limit bloat, a serious
problem in ruminants where the rumen fills with gas and presses the animal's
diaphram, causeing suffocation.
Mark

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:07:44 -0500 (EST)

In a message dated 2/3/97 5:07:58 PM, [email-masked] (Mark

>3. Hard to hay those little trees and shrubs.

Good points.  My animals prefer some of the broadleaf plants in the pasture
to nice, young grass, though they level the lot pretty handily.  In
particular, they like Florida betony and dollar weed, though there are some
composits I haven't recognized yet that get pretty well cropped too.  Cattle
are natural browsers, descended largely from forest animals.  I've seen them
shoulder deep in sumac browsing contentedly next to a perfect stand of
bluegrass.  I mentioned something about working too hard to the farmer who
had just established the grass but he didn't appreciate the comment.

I don't think you really know if it is hard to hay trees or shrubs.  It is a
problem if capitalization, not technical difficulty, I suspect.  As I
mentioned, the Russians worked out a way to make a winter feed from poplar
leaf and twig meal.  the problem is that everyone has equipment for storing
grass, not stripping vegetation from woody plants and storing that.
 Eventually, equipment wears out.  In any case, no recommended making grasses
extinct, or anything, but that there might be some consideration of broadleaf
plants, particularly woody ones.  And as I recall, I mentioned that some
could provide concentrates, such as honey locust, oak, carob, persimmon,
etc., which the animals can harvest themselves.  

These were proposed as additional options, components in a whole system, not
as replacements for grass.  I like grass.  I also like the willow and alder
and blackberry that supplement the grass in my pasture and I intend to add to
these some other woody species over the coming years, as I get to it.  

For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since
1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and now correspondence
permaculture training by email. Copyright, 1996, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O.
Box 2052, Ocala FL 34478 USA  [email-masked]  

We don't have time to rush.