Subject: web limits and world poverty

From: April Sampson-Kelly <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:43:05 +-1000

Yes the web has a limited market.  and we won't reach people who are
really in need of solutions on sustainable production in third world countries
but we can reach the main causes of poverty in those nations.
We can reach the greatest consumers of world energy, the greatest
wasters of resources.  
The third world actually give us more money than we give them
it is a simple sum.  We lend them money, they pay it back with
interest.
We lend them money on projects that we decide  they need - dams 
that flood fertile regions, stop seasonal fish breeding areas and more.

Permaculture is a double-edged wedge.
I think sometimes it would be easier to work with those needy people
the rewards from happy well-fed children would be greater than 
influencing people here to avoid disposable nappies, to look for 
safe alternatives, to waste not and produce more.
April

The WWW offers an avenue if you have a home page. Then you don't have 
the expense and work of publishing.

Problem is, most people - at least in Austraila - don't have access to 
WWW or email even though the use of these media is growing fast. So, 
the most accessible form of communication of locally relevant 
information remains printed media in its various forms.

Until recently we published a permaculture journal for the Sydney 
bioregion which carried useful, locally relevant information. This was 
a successful media for the transmission of information.

We have found that printed matter is an accessible media for passing 
on information in the Solomon Islands where we are involved in a 
village agriculture project.

There, access to the internet is virtually zero - it is largely a 
media restricted to people in affluent nations and of only marginal 
accessibility to people in developing countries (ie four-fifths of 
humanity). There's not only the issue of access in countries with poor 
telecommunications facilities, there's the big issue of affordability 
and skills. 

One media which has proven useful there is video. This gets around the 
problem of illiteracy and there is often a video machine in many of 
the villages and, of course, video's are portable.

I guess the strategy for maximun information penetration is to 
simultaneously publish both in print and on the web.

I would be interested in finding out what you people at Urban Harvest 
do and how you do it. Are you into urban agriculture? Urban 
agriculture - in the form of community gardens and community supported 
agriculture - is fairly new in Australia. In Sydney, we're involved in 
a couple community gardens and train people in relevant skills and 
assist with design.

We're also contacts for a community garden/ city farm network covering 
most of the country. So, we're eager to learn what other groups are 
doing.

Thanks...

...Russ Grayson

-- 
PERMACULTURE EXTENSION SERVICES
Russ Grayson and Fiona Campbell
PO Box 446, Kogarah NSW 2217 AUSTRALIA

Phone	02-9588 6931	(IDD-61+2+9588 6931)
Fax 	02 330 2611 (Mark fax: ATTN: RUSS GRAYSON - APACE) 
	(IDD-61+2+330 2611)
Email: [email-masked]

Permaculture education, publishing, design. 
NSW co-ordinator, Australian City Farms and Gardens Network.

---

From: April Sampson-Kelly <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:49:42 +-1000

Hi ya steve, long time no talk, I have come to realise that
I  can't deal with the amount of the market that we have already!!
and I realise those that really need help don't have the net - however,
Those people in need are a hell of a lot more willing and are easier to teach!!!

I still get visits from people with the perfect look (acoubra, flannel shirt, blundies)
and have a mobile phone hidden in the pocket!!
I get grilled and treated like I'm trying to sell them something!! E.g. they 
say "but doesn't that"  "but don't you have to" ..
."the last visitor simply didn't belive that the vegies and shrubs were in mulch
and started to poke holes in it looking for soil"!! 
I know it would be easier to run oversease to our Indian project 
(though my belly doesn't agree) 
But here we are, on the frontier Steve, where the face of Permaculture has to
bare the storms of commercialism.
April

>really in need of solutions on sustainable production in third world countries
  <snip>
>doing.Thanks...
..Russ Grayson

>NSW co-ordinator, Australian City Farms and Gardens Network.

  Dear Russ,
  I have put up a website that you may  find useful, it's at:
   http://www.wdc.net/~smd/agcult.htm
   be sure to download         /agseed.htm pages of seeds
  Hope you can put this info to good use.  E-mail me any
  questions or comments or links. I'm still looking for more
  Au links for these pages. I also have another page you
  may like at:   /river.htm    just add some Au trees to it!
  Sincerely,
  Steve
  [email-masked]

---

From: April Sampson-Kelly <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:49:42 +-1000

<snip>
..Russ Grayson

  Dear Russ,