Subject: Re: More re Ehrlich experiment

From: Patrick Roper <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 09:57:58 +0000

>The problem with all this is that you are presenting reasonable, logical
>ideas to people whose principal concerns are entirely emotional and
>illogical. These people have already reached their conclusions and are
>simply looking for new ways to condemn collecting and _anyone_ who
>advocates it. Their arguments are essentially not about collecting but
>about whether or not you are a Hatfield or a McCoy. Nothing anyone says is
>ever going to change their minds, no matter how reasonable it is.

Dear Professor Royer,

Surely the above is, in itself, an emotional response?  For many months
people have argued that no species of butterfly or moth has ever been
damaged by collecting, which is contrary to our experience in the UK, and
the "Ehrlich experiment" has been cited over and over again as "proof" of
this.  As a scientist I am sure you would endorse the wisdom of going back
to original sources before reaching conclusions and, in replying to Kenelm
Phillip, I was simply asking for information to enable me to do that.

I would be most grateful if you would (a) let me know what you believe my
principle concerns are and where you obtained this information and (b) on
what basis you have concluded that they are emotional and illogical.

My arguments about collecting are entirely about collecting and I am fully
prepared, as I hope you are, to change my mind with regard to the truth of
any matter if presented with convincing evidence.

Patrick Roper
--
South View, Churchland Lane, Sedlescombe, East Sussex TN33 0PE, UK
Telephone: +44 (0) 1424 870208; Fax: +44 (0) 1424 870208
Email: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 96 09:59:39 -0500

I can't get at the paper quoted, but Ehrlich, in 'The Biology of Butterflies' E
: R Vane-Wright, Princeton 1989 page 38, quotes Hayes as having 'recently shown
that in some circumstances collecting adults from a population can effect popula
tion size'.  [The populatioecology of a natural population of the peirid
butterfly Colias Alexandra: Oecologica 49 188-200 (1981)].
 
Bill