Subject: "overcollecting"/Loch Ness Monster

From: Thomas Kral <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:52:58 -0700

Hmmm... interesting title, please read on to find out its meaning.  Its
interesting how Patrick Roper & Neil Jones keep playing the "New Forest
Burnet story" again and again like a broken record.  To brief those of
you in the dark about this, Roper, Jones, et.al claim that this moth was
overcollected to extinction in England, circa, early 1900's.  If true,
its a first for a documented example of a bug being overcollected.  Well,
first lets imagine that it actually was overcollected to extinction
(though it takes a very big imagination to envision this).

OK, so out of 1,000,000+ insects on our planet, maybe ONE was collected
to extinction, or a probability of about 0.000001 that this can occur (my
chances of winning the lottery are better than this).  But despite such
odds, there are those of the anti-collecting lobby that think NO insects
should be collected.  Countries like Germany & Mexico have taken such
laws to the extreme that one basically cannot collect insects, with some
citing the example that this prevents the possibility of extinctions from
collecting. - But this is the same logic that the U.S. govt. used in WWII
to place thousands of U.S. Citizens of Japanese descent, in internment
camps because maybe a couple, out of these thousands, may be Japanese
spies or sabateurs.

Now, I'm not advocating a disobedience of laws or society, but it is true
that many laws were not in the best interests of society.  Stalin &
Hitler had lots of "laws", but were they all good laws?  Further, many
such bad laws were based on bad information, or myth.

Myths? Now lets return to the "New Forest Burnet".  Roper, et.al would
like you to think that its extinction was due to overcollecting, yet
provide no conclusive evidence or proof.  Rather they base their claim on
anecdotal and dogmatic evidence written by others of like mind - but
Roper contends that if its written "chapter & verse" then it must be
true! Yes, Merry Old England is the birthplace of many a fairy tale - all
put in writing, but does that mean these stories are true?  I don't think
so!

Now, lets compare the extinction of the New Forest Burnet to the Loch
Ness Monster.  Both are similar in that people swear by their stories and
are convinced of its truth.  Further, both have been written about, and
there are even those elusive photos for the latter.  But have either been
proven correct? Certainly NOT!  Its not to say that it isn't
theoretically possible to extirpate a finite insect population - but if
this was true, there would be so many unemployed insect exterminators.
Even Paul Opler and the USFWS admits that there are no documented
instances of overcollecting an insect (which also begs the question that
there is no substance whatsoever to the "crime" of collecting).  Might
the Loch Ness Monster be really discovered, possible, but I really doubt
it after all the recent efforts to find it in the Loch have turned up
empty handed.

LETS MAKE A DEAL...

Patrick and Neil, tell you what, if you can produce an actual specimen of
the Loch Ness Monster, then I might believe your myth about the New
Forest Burnet and it being "overcollected".  Sounds fair to me!  Until
then, might I suggest you keep your dogma to yourselves, and instead go
to Scotland, rent a fishing boat, and see if you can land "Nessie".
Until then, lets stick to the FACTS!!!

Cheerio !

Tom

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From: Neil Jones <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 08:08:26 GMT

I now believe I have collected enough specimens
 of Kral's prose both for journalistic and psychoanalytical purposes.

He is clearly incapable of rational debate. I accept that in his
view, in the beginning there was the word and the word was with Kral.
There seems little point in debating with an individual who regards
himself as omniscient.

-- 
Neil Jones
[email-masked]