Subject: Re: Collectors and NABA 4th of July Counts?

From: Floyd Catchpole <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 23:56:09 -0500

In a message dated 96-03-29 19:51:10 EST, Carol Witham  writes:
>
>Now that the annual 4th of July count is being run by the NABA, how many
>butterfly collectors are contributing time, data and money to this
>anti-collecting organization?
>
Please folks, lets not let our disagreements interfere with our doing good
things.  I think we can all agree that the 4th of July count is a good thing,
or at least not harmful.  So lets all take 10 deep breaths, stick our heads
out the door, suck in some good air and sunshine, and remember.......we're
all in the same world.  We could be so good together.

Floyd Catchpole, Kansas State University, Dep't. of Biology, Ackert Hall,
Manhattan, KS 66506 USA

        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        + Have you ever done these things? You should.+
        +       These things are fun, and fun is good.+
        +                               -Dr. Seuss    +
        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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From: Dick Walton <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 06:55:57 -0500

Carol Witham seems to have some mistaken impressions about NABA. Although the
organization exists to encourage  observational ("non-consumptive,
recreational butterflying . . .") activities, I don't believe -as an
orghanization, it has taken the position of 'anti-collecting.'

For example, the official instructions for the 1996 NABA-Xerces 4th of July
Butterfly Count, recently sent out by NABA includes the following:

"Optional: write method of identification after number seen: S (sighted), B
(binoculared), C (collected), N (netted and released), P (photographed), G
(genitalia dissected)."

This seems to me to be a rather inclusive set of criteria - and one that
takes into account a broad range of interests, skills, and approaches by the
participants.

While individual NABA members will necessarilty reflect a broad spectrum of
opinions on the collecting question, I for one am comfortable with NABA's
emphasis on observational butterflying. As an individual I happen to believe
there are a number of legitimate situations in which butterflies should be
collected.

Cheers, Dick Walton

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From: Gregory <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 20:21:52 -0500

No one, I repeat, no one has ever said NABA is anti-collecting.  It does not
advocate collecting, that is all.  It advocates watching.
Alan Gregory

>Carol Witham  --->  [email-masked]
>
>
************************************************************
Gregory                                 "We stand for what we stand on."
Penn State Hazleton                    - Edward Abbey
717-450-3188

[email-masked]

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From: Bob Greback <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:31:28 EST

I would like to parallel Jim Kruse's remarks.  We are the same, except I once
was a member of NABA.  (I moved to Delaware, no chapters near enough and I'm
very busy).

My NABA experience was very positive.

Hello to the Fort Worth Chapter, if anyone is on!

I'll be out netting, counting, identifying, and yes, collecting.

Your faithful public servant,

Bob

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From: James Kruse <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:22:11 CST

Fri, 29 Mar 1996  Carol Witham <[email-masked]>

> Carol Witham  --->  [email-masked]

Hello,
    1) I am a collector.  2) I contribute time and data in the form of
the 4th of July butterfly counts.  3) I don't have a problem with NABA
running that show.  4) I am not a member of NABA.  5) I have not
noticed any _official_ movement by NABA to condemn collectors,
though some members condemn collecting, but (in my experience), they
do not shout NABA!, as (in my opinion), they shouldn't.
      Just some personal observations to give Carol's question the
benefit of the doubt.

Jim Kruse

Dept Entomology
Univ Wisconsin
345 Russell Labs
1630 Linden Dr.
Madison, WI 53706
608-262-4755

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From: Elizabeth Munger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:48:07 -0600

Mr. Kral-

I am new to the hobby of butterflying and even newer to this newsgroup.
While following comments on the topic of collecting, something picqued my
interest.  I mention was made that collecting butterflies in Mexico was a
violation of US customs laws.  Could you plese help to shed some light on
this, as it makes no sense to me.  I understand (correctly?) that to collect
anything in Mexico, one needs a permit issued by the Mexican government.
How can collecting unendangered species in a foreign country be in voilation
of US law?

Which is the law in question beign voilated?  I'm quite curious as I don't
understand how logic pervails here.

Thanks for your help!

Elizabeth