A Chat With The Designer of Eternal Champions and a Software Developer from 4-Play for the Atari Jaguar. IRC Transcript Edited by: Jer Horwitz (Held for several hours on the evening of 12-5/93.) This is an edited transcript of the IRC discussion between some of Rec.Games.Video's most inquisitive readers and a few of the most interesting people in the video game industry one could hope to meet. Special thanks, besides the obviously excellent guests mentioned in the title, go to Teh Kao Yang, who started the channel #Vidgames on IRC and publicized it, bringing the whole terrific discussion to reality. Applause for TK! If any lesson was learned in this extended discussion, it was that every human being on the planet should be cursing the person who invented the NDA (non-disclosure agreements) -- as a result of this legal concept, the terrific speakers on #Vidgames chat revealed that they couldn't discuss anything technical about the Sega Saturn and Atari Jaguar. This transcript has been edited to remove most of the background chatter, but retains the "Can't say" comments so you might get a better picture of what's off-limits these days. Topics discussed include : Saturn vs. 3DO vs. Jaguar, "Can we trust Electronic Arts?", future Sega products, a little bit on 4-Play's multi-player Jaguar game, Eternal Champions (including an overkill! =) ) and all the other exciting stuff related to the EC characters, Capcom's originality and devotion to Sega, Trip Hawkins, and Atari corporate behavior. A few other small details have been edited for greater clarity, and some questions directly placed with their respective answers. No one has been misquoted or misrepresented. Large chunks of laughter and less-than-newsworthy text has been removed altogether. (For example, a small side-discussion on X-Wing was cut, as was a mini-SNES vs. Genesis debate.) One person involved in the discussion is officially off-the-record. His name will be listed here as Anonymous. --- JBHorwitz (~v089l3s3@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu) has joined channel #vidgames. *** #vidgames: The designer of Eternal Champions is in the house!! *** Users on #vidgames: JBHorwitz Ghost Percy tehyang thanselm biddle Larcen horny Neuros Brimstone smh Peldor Wait a second. There's no way the Eter. Champ designer is here. Larcen, did I meet you at CES? Larcen: You're tall, brown hair, beard? kind of a big guy yes * tehyang looks at JBH and Larcen Larcen: We met and discussed your game at length, I'm the guy who has been distributing tons of Internet info on Eternal Champions since CES. =) JBH: Well thanks that was very kind By the way, everyone, the 3DO photos are online now. Larcen: which aspect of the game's development did you do? Tehyang: I wrote all 800 pages of the design. All moves, features, and even music descriptions. If you're looking for photos of Demolition Man and 7th Guest 2, they're on my FTP site at: BUSOP.CIT.WAYNE.EDU, cd pub/pselect/3DO. Are you working on a project now (or can you say)? biddle: Yes the sequal to Eternal and a new project called Rachet and Bolt I am doing Brett Hull for the Sega biddle: Develper or Producer? Coder Accolade is developing and we, Radical are developing Larcen: you're working on a sequel already?? WOw... you must be pretty confident that the first game will succeed ooops, Accolade == Producing Radical what else have you done? When I played the Eternal Champions demo, it was already obvious that the game was going to be terrific. The use of color is unparalleled on the Genesis. When you see (especially on a monitor like those used at CES) how the blu and greens look on the menu screens, you'll be very impressed. JBH: really???!!! JBH: but the screeshots in the magazines look horrible all the screenshots in mags seem horrible I just don't trust screnshots as a rule... some are too pixelated, some to blurry, some even for the wrong versiopnions JBH: how is the control of the characters in Eternal? It's as if Larcen and his team got out the Crayola Fluorescents for the first time. Teh: Which screenshots are you referring to? JB: from the EC ad itself... it looks very pixellated tehyang: yeah, the screenshots i saw in EGM looked kinda off color. but that could be the print. No that's EGM for ya Punisher: The demo I played did not have the same control as what I've been reading about as of late; Shadow seemed to control beautifully, in that she would teleport with three buttons and become invisible with another three, but if I remember correctly, at CES, they were still using fireball motions to control Shadow's throwing stars (and bombs, was it?). JBH: if the control of EC is comparable to let's say the control in the SNES of SF2 (which is pretty decent i must say), i'll be happy =) punisher: no there are no circular motions in EC * tehyang wonders if Yuzo Koshiro would show up tehyang: really? how extensive are the selection of moves for each character? more than in sf2? The character animation in Eternal Champions is beyond comparison to most games. I still remember, to this day, the puff of red smoke that Shadow disappears into. JBH: should be a big hit from all the hype built up about it JBH: is the animation of characters as detailed as, let's say, Aladdin? Punisher: The control will be the telling part. Personally, since I have never played a fighting game where a large number of moves are charge-only I cannot tell... I can tell you that I dislike playing SF2 with Guile now because of all the charging defense I have to use. I prefer Ryu, who can execute attacks on the spot. The animation on Eternal Champs, as compared to Aladdin.. Well, I can't really say. It's been 5 months since I saw EC, and a few weeks since Aladdin. JBH : Razor kick then start charging again and you can do a sonic or razor almost instantly I think JBH: agreed. so EC is basically charging moves...with a few exceptions, right? Pel: I don't like to charge all the time. Argh. I don't mind charging myself :) peldor: we want QUICK and accurate movements of the joystick peldor: really hate to wait there to charge up for a move Punisher: Well, I only used two characters. Shadow, for example, had at least two moves I figured out which just required the three top buttons and three bottom buttons. Larcen, I think, if you wanted to do his ceiling-grapple, you did a sonic kick charge. It seemed fun at the show. Larcen: Feel like revealing an Overkill for, let's say, the prehistoric times background? Ok JBH Happy Happy, Joy Joy! The way to overkill in that scene is get the character that is bout to die... * tehyang takes out his paper and pencil one inch from the extreme end of either side of the screen on the final round, then hit the final blow with a move cause more than 13% damage. At this point the enemy will fall dead near the edge of the screen at this point the dead character will be pulled off screen with a chomping noise and then a large dino head will come on screen and the characters legs will be sticking out and then the character will be swallowed. The dino will then spit out a item that is specific to the character Teh: Okay, got the ad. Agreed, these photos are worse than the game actually looked on a TV. The ads and other screen shots look bad because the game uses certain methods to create the effect of more color JBH: good so the game doesn't really look that bad when frozen and photoed the graphics get weird. The game is very challenging. Out of our 100 testers on 10 of them could finish the game Larcen: Thanks for that overkill, by the way! =) Larcen: I'm very curious about why the choice was made to use charge and button moves only; At CES, we talked about how you were designing it *with* betatester kids, and that they were making the determinations on balance, etcetera. The kids said they couldn't do the fireball movements on the average gamepads Larcen: so who's the proverbial Ryu/ken/cheap character. :) Brimstone: Sorry there are no sfII rip-offs Larcen: Any chance of a Sega-CD Eternal Champions, or has Sega just completely given up? JBH: Sega CD Eternal is coming next year. It will be point of view 3-D fighter Larcen: Is this the sequel to ECs, or something else? Larcen: WOW!!!!!!!! There are several Eternal products coming: The Sega Cd i just mentioned *> JBHorwitz has finally heard the only justifiable reason to get a Sega-CD. JBH: hehehehe A game gear version that is side scroller and a tournament fighter ?me agrees with JBHorwitz Another game gear version called Empire Syndicate that stars Larcen JH: Hehehe. I agree :) It is a strategy and aracde mixture set in old Chicgo In summer we are doing a title called Eternal Plus which I can't discuss for Genesis Larcen: Let me guess on Eternal Plus, MA-17 and includes a blindfold for idiotic whining parents? It called Way of the Blade and will be a radical departure Final version of what, exactly, Eternal Plus? This is going to be developed for Saturn, then scaled down for the Genesis? (Way of the Blade, I mean?) Eternal is MA-13 JBH Larcen: I mean, Eternal Plus would be MA-17, it's like Eternal Champions PLUS gore! =) No Eternal pluss isn't a saturn port down Larcen: Is Way of the Blade a Saturn title? JBH: Yes Larcen: has the development for the Saturn versio nof EC begun already? tehyang: Yes Larcen: Are development systems available yet for Saturn? I would assume not, given that the final design spec is still claimed to be up in the air. We have early developments systems Larcen: With NEC 701 CPUs or Toshibas, or what exactly? JBH: What, you don't want pinouts? :) JBH: All custom Larcen: I need a candid answer on this question, it really determines whether or not I would consider Saturn a competitor: Is the Saturn capable of doing an exact duplicate of the arcade games Arabian Fight and Virtua Racing, or isn't the final spec known yet? JBH: Virtua racing and Arabian fight are four generation behind the Saturn in hardware design Um, Saturn had better be able to do Virtua Racing :) Both the 3DO and the Jag can. (I don't know what Arabian Fight is, so I'd better pass on that one :) Larcen: Here's my problem - you simply cannot duplicate a multi-thousand dollar arcade machine for $500. It's impossible. Larcen: Daytona etc. is a generation ahead of Virtua Racing, JBH: Here is a big surprise Jer, sure you can, two years later. JBH: Most coin-ops only cost around 50 dollars in parts that drive the software The only real problem *I* see is NTSC. Larcen: The Virtua Racing coin op does _not_ cost $50 in parts, even if we're looking ONLY at the internal hardware and not at the cabinet, monitor, seats, steering wheel, etcetera. And Jer, remember, the hardware in the Jag is going to be used by Atari Games. Abaddon: your right all the video companies are held by NTSC So, it's not too hard to believe Sega can do something similar. The board that runs Virtua is our system 32 board He's talking about a home system, and what it would need to duplicate, remembe. Larcen: The Genesis was like a slightly less powerful System 16 board, and immediately after the release of the Genesis, Sega's arcade hardware all started using System 18, making games like Shadow Dancer etcetera impossible to do on the Genesis, JBH: Attend CES and see if you can sneek in the back for a peek Larcen: So, given that Saturn is to be the next Sega hardware demon, JBH: Ive seen the demo games. The words S.G.I. come to mind Larcen: Will it be capable of perfectly duplicating Arabian Fight and Virtua? JBH: Yes, the only limit being the NTSC limits Larcen: Which games are on demo thus far? Do you have any estimated components cost? Larcen: NTSC limits mean that the unit will then have a resolution of 320x224 or something? JBH: sorry can't tell you much more How are titles to be distributed on the Saturn, CD? CD+memory pak, gigabyte drive? satellite? Larcen: is there any truth to the rumour of Sega of Japan killing off the MEga-CD? Larcen: Thanks for what you *have* been able to say. =) tehyang: No Mega CD is still around and will be kept for a while Abaddon: Nintendo lost their ties with Sony, JVC and others Larcen: what do you think of Nintendo's Project Reality? Larcen, any chance Saturn will expand to offer higher res through better monitors, like if you have NTSC it will work and if you have a multisync it will be better? JBH: I think copier thieves are more of a problem for Nintendo than Sega NTSC does allow a resoltion around 1024x1024 with tricks larcen: any prices? horny: 1500 was a cost projection for the year 1997 we cost advance through lifetime for best price Larcen: 1997? But Nintendo said 1995 larcen: ouch. There is absolutely NO way you can squeeze 1024 vertical lines out of NTSC :) Horizontally you can, but it won't give you much improvement over say 600 or so lines. Theoretically you could write a game for 1024 horizontal rez, and it'd look fine on NTSC, but better with a monitor though. Larcen: And is Way of the Blade a Eternal Champs game or a super action game? JBH: Blade has the Eternal Champion in it a couple of other people from the first game but the rest is a complete departure this first game but thats all. It changes from there Larcen: can you tell us a bit more about the Sega CD Eternal Champions.. uhh what was the name for it? No name it is a mixture of 3-D and bit-mapp technology Larcen: oh, any idea of when it will be released? I hope it will make the CD system worth owning. It has complete movies done on S.G.I.'s Larcen: sorry, another question :) Is Sega planning to make a major splash at the CES or are they saving their best for the summer one? Obviously, Sega has to have a lot of confidence in you if they're tossing all their programmers into rooms to do SGI work for your games! 1024 vert: no way, no how, no where ^_^ JBH: I'm an executive producer and run the largerst producer group. I hope they they have confidence. biddle: When will hockey release? The SNES version has been approved by Nintendo, I am still plugging aalong on the Sega, look for them at CES Is Sega on the internet? what is nelinet.org? ** At this point (12:55am, 12-6/93, Anonymous joins.) tehyang: Yes Sega plans a bigs psplash at both CES smh: Sega will be joining Internet but right now we are on Delphi. We need to settle security before turning on Internet Larcen: Can I get a quick answer on that Blade resolution question? =) Nintendo isn't hurting badly at all; while I'm not going to defend them, they do have hot stuff lined up. JBH: repeat the question Larcen: What resolution is Way of the Blade currently being programmed at? JBH: sorry can't disclose that Nintendo is going to have huge problems with FX Trax if it hasn't improved since CES. Larcen: (Tears are streaming down my eyes like a Manga) What Sega currently needs is someone to design a Sega version of Metroid. In my opinion, Sega can win the game war with that single piece of software. JBH: uhh.... why?? I don't think anyone can "win" the "war" And thinking that's awfully silly. Why does Sega need a Metroid clone? Tehyang: Because Metroid is the definitive Nintendo piece of software. In every way, it symbolizes what Nintendo games are - Metroid was long, challenging, diverse in gameplay, had advanced graphics for its time, and multiple endings, and currently, no one has duplicated it. metriod was revolutionary. JBH: Uhh... but what if I don't care for the definitive NIntendo style of game? Teh: Then I advise you get your head checked. JBH: Aw, be nice. He hates Nintendo :) Anonymous: urr... is Sonic 3 going to be released soon? errrr...ummm...have you heard of Sonic Mania day? Anonymous: I slept through it ^_^ AlthougH I wanted SonicCD QUESTION about Sonic-CD -- Anonymous: you mean Sonic Spinball is Sonic 3? Any consumer who "hates Nintendo" and lets that affect their judgment of their games purchase is being truly silly. But, people have a right to be truly silly as much as they want ^_^ I had the Japanese Sonic CD, and I still haven't heard the US music - Was any of the CD music changed, and if so, for the better? I heard the Japanese soundtrack was far better. Haven't heard either myself, so... JBH, big difference between Jap and US Sonic, music and game difficulty level. Jap is much better game... JBH: The music was re-recorded in the multi-media studio The packaging for the Japanese Mega-CD version was the best Sega in HISTORY. yup, after playing the import for so long the US one seems dead. the problem with 3DO is the price. :) Larcen: Why was it changed? The music was changed because US ffocus groups Anonymous: What's *your* big project? Larcen, I liked the Jap animation intro better than the vocals in the US one as well... Anonymous: can you tell us anything about your future projects? The music was changed so the lyrics were in english I don't work directly on projects; I usually do other ancillary things. Larcen, is the game play taken down a level in the US one, or is it just my imagination? Larcen: How did you personally feel about the Japanese soundtrack? Larcen: Hmmm why did the difficulty of SonicCD game get toned down, supposedly? ancillary? anyone got a dictionary handy? :) SMH: Just you imagination, we only changed the music Larcen : aren't thel lyrics in English on the Japanese version? Lyrics? English? Most of the music seemed to be in English. Anonymous: Ancillary? We didn't change the challenge can you say anything about Virtua Racing, guys? :) Ancillary. Auxiliary - releated. Larcen, ok, good to hear it, guess I just got used to the game and was easier the second time around... :) ...still seems different ;-) Abbondon: The Virtua racing is almost done. Very Good!!!!! Larcen: That's what I heard... I wanna see it :) Larcen: Is anyone inside of Sega working on another Kid Chameleon style game? Anon: Same question. Not as far as I know. Kid Chameleon was one of those amazing Sega games which will never have a sequel, I guess. Virtua Racing is pretty hot. Anonymous: Pretty hot? Sounds like a qualified description to me. JBH: there are lots of those :) Sucker screams. Everybody says it won't sell, because it'll be expensive, but I think it'll sell like hotcakes. Teh: I don't think so. Anonymous: How close is it asthetically to the arcade? Music? Anonymous: what's the size going to be, and cost? Is Sega working on Virtua Fighters Genesis yet? Anonymous: does it support multi-players? Wouldn't a polygon game take up comparably little space? Anonymous: Virutal Racing, that is Very close - it's done by the arcade game division by the same guys who did the coin-op version. Or are there lots of sounds or something? tehyang: It does support two players Anonymous: So I heard at CES, but what types of things are missing? How's the music? tehyang: split screen Music is pretty good, not as great..last time I saw it it didn't have the guy who waves his arms around and says "Give me a good race!" in it. :) I love the broken English..."Give me a good race!" and all the other stuff. Anonymous: The 16 megs were used primarily for the graphics engine, then, right? I mean, 3 tracks and music which takes up 10 seconds, how is 16m used? Don't know, JBH. I think most of it runs on the DSP - maybe they compressed everything and let the DSP decompress it? don't know. Also, Larcen/Anonymous: Do either of you know much about the current relationship between Capcom and Sega? Larcen: is Sega bringing out Art of Fighting in the US? And what's the story on Rise of the Dragon? Anonymous: COMPRESSED? All considering, 16 megs seems like a *lot* of memory for a game with only 3 tracks and polygons. JBH: Was there a relationship between Sega and Capcom ever? don't know much about Sega/Capcom. JBH: it has everything the arcade has. It's a very very close translation. Larcen: Uh, yeah. Like, first, Sega translates Capcom games, then, Capcom makes their own games, and now, I'm wondering if Capcom is releasinganything, ever again, for the Genesis. Anonymous: Voices like "Final Lap!" and "Awaiting your Entry?" Anonymous: How about the beautiful digitized woman? =) Anonymous: and the pit crew? I've seen pit crew shots. Let's hope the voices sound good instead of the crap that's been done lately (from 3rd parties) JBH: I'm sure they will but it will always be second to the SNES release. The two presidents play golf I dont' remember if it has digitized voices...yes it has the woman. and it also has the "pit stop" polygon sequence where they change the wheels. Anonymous: Expected price of $89? JBH: Price isn't set yet I don't know. I just hear it'll be a bit expensive. It's faster than StarFox...more playable. maybe 50% faster than SF. Larcen: Capcom, then, hasn't said anything about any future products after SF2? What about the control? Are they releasing a driving controller? Don't know, Oppressor. It would kind of suck without one... I miss analog controllers for such things... Sega can do without Capcom... Sega's strength lies in original games, IMHO. JBH: They will be there but always late and half-hearted Anonymous: hmm Sega hasn't announced any games for the Sega CD in 94... Sega cannot do without Capcom. JBH: Malarky. SFII:TCE was a pretty minor thing, when push came to shove. Capcom gave Sega Ghouls'n'Ghosts, which gave Sega their first big break. Ab: And they've put off on SF2 for so long that by the time it hit the Sega the splash wasn't that big a ripple Capcom makes mediocre-but-extremely-popular games. Capcom games are NOT mediocre. That's blasphemy around these parts. Capcom games are completely mediocre. Name an innovation. JBH: But did it have the Capcom flag when Sega released Ghouls and Ghosts? JBH: Ghouls and Ghosts was back in the days when they golfed with us Paradox: SF2. That's all it takes. JBH: Sure, but that was then... this is now. I didn't buy my Genesis for SFII... the SNES does that great already. I bought it for unique games which aren't on the SNES at all. JBH, :I agree How about Area 88? That's a really good game. (UN Squadron here in the US) there are some very cool games coming out for Sega CD. Anonymous-like what? Games are becoming really good on Sega CD...a couple lately have blown me away. Watch for some release by a company called Digital Pictures, Inc for Sega-CD. tehyang: I just finished my FYI 95 plan with a lot of new Sega CDs Anonymous: Such as Ground Zero Texas, right? there's a better one than GZT, actually. Larcen: Ghouls'n'Ghosts gave Sega great reviews in magazines.. SFII's control was definitely innovative... I have a softspot for Carrier Airwing but it's not exactly innovative... Jb: SF2 isn't an innovation. Just karate champ with new controls and graphics. Sakon: I thought it was a lot of fun :) Paradox: Get some help. JBH: don't get me wrong ghouls was great paradox: computers aren't an innovation. just an abacus with electrons. Jb: Get something other than a popular opinion. All right guys I'm calling it a night THanks Larcen!!! G'nite Larcen, thanks so much for the Q'n'A! seeya Mike G'nite and thank you Larcen Bye. Laters Larcen.. Anonymous: Any idea if Space Harrier 3 is in the works? Don't know. Anonymous: What types of things are *you* personally excited about? There's no such thing as innovation. Every idea is based upon a past. Scarrow: Tempest Scarrow: Tetris, Space Invaders Tempest is based upon vector graphics, geometric shapes, spiders ... * tehyang just wants a good adaptation of the original Space Harrier... all the ones so far suck DPI's Sega-CD releases, Sonic Mania day, Saturn. Paradox: And if you honestly think that SF2 is nothing, then you're in a very distinct minority. Scarrow: And they're all based on Computer Sapce and Pong, eh? JB: I think it is a fun game. But it isn't awesome. I hate the idea of "me too" games. There are just too many copycats. Anonymous: What can you say about Saturn that has any meaning to a psuedo-techie like myself? mode 7. :) Anonymous: Give me a break. break? :) Op: I just said that all ideas have some basis in the past. I think SF2 is nothing. No innovation at all. paradox: It's simply the best piece of software ever released. paradox: In every way, a mental challenge. JB: Small mind. Horny: Nah...it was the first polished 1x1 fighting game, IMO Paradox: In every way, visually impressive. Hmmm, I don't recall any one-on-one combat games before that where you controlled a human (barring boxing games). MAxout: Agreed, control system was revolutionary.... made the game Visually impressive ? Nothing on there is innovative, visually. The graphics ? Mediocre, at best. Scarrow: Karate Champ Oppressor: just a response to the person who said Capcom wasn't innovative. Karate Champ was too choppy... Anonymous : Mode 7 my foot! God that thing is SO DAMN ANNOYING. There is this one hockey game for the SNES, I forgot the name.. It rotates so much it's hard to tell where you are etc. But it was probably the start... Max: Karate champ was out so long ago though. Oppressor: my point was that innovativeness is a subjective measure, I guess. Capcom isn't innovative. They are the ultimate in ME TOO gaming. Anonymous: how about SOnic the ARcade game? Anonymous: I don't mean that specific title (Arabian Fight), but is the hardware up to the task? it has mode 7-like capabilities, polygon hardware, fast processors. Anonymous: Can the Saturn do a perfect translation of Arabian Fight, given your knowledge of the sprite power of System 32? sorry, I haven't seen Arabian Fight. Anonymous: Golden Axe 3, then? The arcade System-32 Golden Axe 3, that is. Haven't seen GA3 either. :( I'm too busy to look at games. :( the only things I've seen lately are Virtua Racing and Barney. :) Barney? Uuuuuuuuugh. Sega should be shot for that one. (or whoever produced it) Anonymous: Arabian Fight is more than a year old.. barney blows.. barney's cool because it has a lot of digitized speech... Anonymous: Does it have a secret Rush Limbaugh=Barney level? Does the Saturn even exist yet ? At all ? They should make a barney game where you smile and say "HO HO HO" as you chase down and sodomize children. Saturn exists. Not final. Anonymous: How about games like Rad Rally and Rad Mobile, possible on Saturn? Anonymous: IS it using the Hitachi processor? too early to say, JBH. can't say, Opp. :) Anonymous: Any demos running on it yet? Yes, we have demos. Anonymous: What types of stuff is being shown in demos thus far? polygon, texturemap, etc. Anonymous: When will its capabilities become reasonably public? Anonymous: Hardware texture mapping? Anonymous: Any specific applications thus far? can't say, Opp. :) can't say, JBH. jbh: Well, can't say we didn't try... Anonymous: What CAN you say? It will be very cool when it comes out. :) It'll cost less than 3DO and run much faster. :) Anonymous: More than a jaguar and faster? Anonymous: As far as comparison to the Mical/Needle development of the 3DO, where does the Saturn stand? Fast clock speed isn't as important as graphics support chips. I think it's actually niftier. Mical/Needle is kind of stuck on a "computer" style of thinking, and that hurts them... Sega is coming from more of a "videgames" approach which is better, because that's what it is. ab: 3dO is crippled somewhat by keeping hardware secret from programmers, compatibility is assured if the rules aren't broken... Anonymous: I didn't see computer thinking *anywhere* in the 3DO stuff I was playing at CES.. 3DO is like an Amiga...yes, it's a computer that can do nifty games, but it's not designed as a game machine. Anonymous: It seemed to me like a games machine through and through. Games machines don't cost $700 Game machines don't have blitters. Anonymous: Say what? Anonymous: In what way is the Saturn designed as a games machine that the 3DO is not? Anonymous: The 3DO costs $700. It has a blitter. 3DO, IMHO, is not a game machine. JB: Well, it is marketed by Sega, and you have to believe what they tell you. :) Anonymous: Lynx, Jag SNES? have blitters... Anonymous: They all seem like game machines to me... The atari jag costs 250 and has a blitter It's a MultiMedia (tm) machine. And Anonymous, all considering the technical innovations of Crash and Burn, I'd say Sega will be hard pressed to show a pack-in game with fully texture mapped graphics. Anonymous: So why isn't the 3DO a game machine? What can it _not_ do that the Saturn can? 3DO the architecture is more computer-style than videogame-style. What do the SNES and Genesis have in common? Anonymous: If 3DO isn't a video game machine, then what is it? How are the SNES and Genesis different from Amigas and IBMs? Anonymous: The SNES and Genesis are made for high-speed animation of game graphics specifically. Anonymous: Simply because the architechture deviates from the standard doesn't mean it cannot serve the purpose. What is the projected release date for the sega saturn? Anonymous: So Saturn is giant sprite processor? It's not "deviating from the standard" It's simply not designed as JUST a game machine. the SNES has a poky 2.5/3.5 Mhz 65816 - why can it do full-screen multiplane scrolling while an IBM 486/66 can't? Anonymous: If you have a concrete reason to say the 3DO is inferior, then say it, but saying it's computerlike when it delivers things like Virgin's Demolition Man, that's just unfair. Anonymous: Display lists ala atari 800? And Amiga... Anonymous: If the best Sega can do with a Sega-CD is "Ground Zero Texas" an "Full-Motion-Video Boxing", I can't say *that* system is superior to the 3DO. I can't say outright, because I can't, but I can make you think about it. Anonymous: Doesn't sound too innvoative... yet... Sega CD is 64 colors - of course it's not superior to 3DO. Anonymous: I understand what you're saying. Anonymous: Thus, the Saturn *is* superior to 3DO in color regards? Anonymous: Scrolling capability implies cool display chip Anonymous: but Jaguar and SNES already have this... 24 bit color is pretty sufficient. In terms of animation, I think it's superior. Although, having an 8 bit alpha channel helps. Anonymous: I believe 3DO too... Anonymous: How seriously is Sega taking the Jaguar these days? Every Jag developer is frothing at the mouth with "blazing speed" claims, but I'm not buying everything I hear. Any caveats? I've seen both 3DO and Jag spec - when I was at LucasArts I went to 3DO developer's conference, and we had two meetings with Atari about JAguar. I'm not worried about Jag, personally. :) Anonymous: From an Atari standpoint or a hardware standpoint? Anonymous: Are you saying there's something in the Saturn's display chip not at all present in the Jaguar's? both. I've played all the Jag games, and I think they stink, IMHO. at the time you played the Jag games, none of them were finished Anonymous: Which "all" of the games? AvP ? Etc ? AvP wasn't even close. Anonymous: Since you're not under NDA, can you say anything about the Jag's limitations? Everyone seems to be distorting them. Anonymous: What would you consider a good game? What is new in AvP in the last couple of months ? Lighting or something ? I've seen most of them. Anonymous: Hmmm.. what happens when you shoot the predator in AvP? Don't know. it wasn't that far along when I saw it. :) Anonymous: Then how can you judge the game? Anonymous: important question for you..... Anonymous: are they going to stick with the name Saturn? I think they should change it! Yeah, people will think it's a car :) Don't know. Anonymous: What month was this? the blitter and object processer on TOM have 64 bit registers. As for if that makes TOM 64 bit, *shrug* paradox: TOM is a real 64-bits RISC procesor Anonymous: As per my earlier question, can you say anything about the Jag's limits? Atari developers are all distoring the facts. DJINN: There is argument coming from DEVELOPERS to the contrary. Don't ask me, I don't know. When the Jag carts come out, try checking how many data lines there are coming out of the cart. :) okay, try taking one apart and seeing how many data lines there are. Developers are claiming the system is better than the 3dO. I doubt it. Yeah, I know Cybermorph is out. That's "Marketing aka hype" division. JBH: The 850 MPixels thing did not come from a developer... Anonymous: So what about the Jaguar's internals? Anonymous: you pay for it, I'll do it ;) Would you rather play Cybermorph or Crash & Burn? :) Cybermorph I think CM would last a lot longer than C&B. I'd rather watch Crash & Burn played than look at Cybermorph. :) CyberMorph long term, beat C&B tournament on 1st try... I'd rather play X-wing than either of them. :) Anonymous: Jaguar internal limitations? I think CM is boring. Jag pixel-pushing figures are greatly inflated. Anonymous: How about the system's scaling and rotation capabilities? Under ideal conditions, a 486/66 can hit 66 MIPS...but it won't be doing anything useful. Same thing with Jag...the figures they're quoting are like claiming a 486/66 will do 66 MIPS because it has single-cycle instructions. right now, you're still better off buying a PC than a 3DO Don't know, JBH. I'm not in marketing...I can complain all I want. :) Anonymous: Now, let's say you were working for 3dO, would you be saying the same thing? Blast Processing is terrible market hype. :) Anonymous: the scary thing is, it works. It's catchy. I think it was originally referring to the Genesis DMA-speed - it has the edge over SNES. but it's a stupid term Anonymous: agreed. <---wonders if you could put a ICD 14Mhz 68000 in a Genesis and if it would work? I took the 68000 from a Sega out and put it in a Amiga.. Probably not, Neuros. Anonymous: Teh was asking earlier about the Sonic 3 - is it indeed Spinball? No, Sonic Spinball is not Sonic 3. Anonymous: Good, then what *is* Sonic 3? Yup, Neuros, but the ID AdSpeed performs caching, so it knows not to cache the I/O locations in an Amiga, which are not in the same locations as the Genesis. An AdSpeed in a Genesis would wind up caching I/O writes which would make the game not work properly. Anonymous: So what's Sonic 3 all about? No comment. :) Anonymous: NO COMMENT? Why? (because I can't say it's mind-numbingly awesome, that's why) Anonymous: We're not exactly talking about Clinton's plans for '96 re-election, it's not *that* secret. Are there any features you *can* disclose? yes, it is. Anonymous: Would you have said the same thing when Sonic 2 was in development? Mind-numbingly awesome, eh? Does the cart contain any additional graphics chips? How can you hate LaserActive. Doesn't everyone want an overpriced LD player with mediocre games dressed up with full-motion video.. hehehe CD-I is actually cool...for MPEG. I've seen Top Gun (the movie) and it's awesome. can't say, Jer. :) Anonymous: true, but it won't exactly be CD-I only forever. Anonymous: 2 player simultaneous? =) So, CD-i makes a great movie player. Whee :) Anyone seen footage of Zelda for the CD-I ? Soooo bad. paradox: That looks so sorry... Unless you can fit a full featured film with MPEG on a CD, I wouldn't bother getting the MPEG module. Can't say. :) paradox: I'd take the NES Zelda over the CD-I version :) You can fit a full movie on two CDs on a CD-I. Anonymous: So give me the scoop on Barney! (hahahaha) Barney's awesome!!! :) hahha Anonymous: I bet Barney is "mind-numbingly awesome" too, at which point, I would hunt you down for bluffing this whole time. Anonymous: Is Barney the official mascot of the Saturn? Barney's sound compression is "mind-numbingly awesome" but the game itself...well..I'd rather shovel cowchips than play Barney. Anonymous: Can you disclose cartridge size on Sonic3? Opp: heheeh. (cough) big. Larger than a bread box, Anonymous? Please define big. Is it bigger than a mouse? Anonymous: Is Aladdin the same type of "big"? moderately big. is it BIG, or just big? wait, no. It's very big. BIG. Does it dwarf my car? Anonymous: Eternal Champions big or Aladdin big? It dwarfes the spruce goose. Wow! That's a monster cart. how much will the three-story adaptor cost? Could it drive over the QEII too? I don't know how big EC is. Bigger than Aladdin. Anonymous: This question I *know* you can answer: Is Sonic 3's design team the exact same guys who did Sonic 2? No. Maybe hmmm...1/3 the same? that's a guess. (thinking) Anonymous: Has the team increased in size by 3X? about 1/3 or 1/4. I dont' know how big the Sonic 2 team was, so I don't know. Anonymous: How many people are working on it, any idea? about 15 or 16. maybe a little less. I know at least 11. Anonymous: Music being done in the USA or Japan? both. Anonymous: By Dreams Come True people? Some of it. What are "dreams come true" people ? Anonymous: Cartridge only or CD too? Japanese band that writes a lot of Sonicmusic. can't say, JBH. Anonymous: 12 people did Sonic 2, by the way. About the same number of people then. Anonymous: 8 people did Sonic 1, I think. Anonymous: Is Yuji Naka still with Sega? JBH: yes Anonymous: Part of Team Sonic 3? Anonymous: So what will the terms be for outside developers? JBH: can't say. *> JBHorwitz can't believe this secrecy. This is no huge conspiracy, geez. Ok, I have the best question of the night. nod JBH Amazes me how little people will tell you When you start up your Saturn, will you hear a voice saying "Saturn!" in a really breathy excited-like tone? I don't know...I know the team who's writing the boot ROMs, though. :) JBH: What, yes it is. Read the Wired article. :) Well, when you run the risk of getting sued for saying too much. NDAs can be nasty. Anonymous : will sonic actually make an appearence in sonic 3? Anonymous: Is a Sonic arcade translation being done yet? JBH: don't know. Ab: nah, you get a digitized voice of Rush Limbaugh singing "Let's be friends." Anonymous: Is A Christmas 94 release still planned? Virtua Racing has been in mags...I can talk about it. when is VR scheduled for release? Other stuff that hasn't been in mags or officially released..I can't talk about. Anonymous: How close is that to the arcade? Anonymous: Is that the general rule, if the mainstream press has shown a photograph, you can talk about it? don't know about VR... Anonymous: VR isn't going to use the Sega goggles, right? if a product has been announced, I can talk about it to some degree. VR doesn't not require goggles. Is virtua racing an exact copy of the arcade? Anonymous: How close is VR to the arcade? it's almost exact. It's damn good. Anonymous: There are tons of things that have been announced. How about Streets of Rage 3? Anonymous: What are the differences? as close as you can get it on the Genesis with color limitations. I haven't seen Rage 3. Anonymous: Koshiro doing the tunes? Don't know. Anonymous: So you aren't going to comment on the 3do vs jaguar battle other than to say Saturn is better than both? Anonymous: How about the much-maligned conversion of Power Drift? Any word? Saturn isn't out yet so I can't talk about it. :) haven't seen Power Drift. Anonymous: Did you see the Koshiro question - is he working on any soundtracks you _have_ heard of? Who's doing Power Drift? JBH: Don't know Koshiro, don't know what he's working on. Anonymous: Power Drift is being worked on by a Japanese company Den something. I'm not great on my Kanji yet. Which system do you guy sthink will sell better this christmas, the jaguar or the 3do? jag. There's no way I'm going to pay $700 for a games unit. No way. Anonymous : I agree! Anonymous: I agree. Anonymous: How do we know the Saturn won't cost $700? It won't. Nope. Anonymous: It won't sell at $550, either, and Tom Kalinske knows that. And that ultimately has to be the price for it, including CD. well, SNES came out at $200? Anonymous: SNES came out at $200, and the 3DO will follow the same path, falling in price to $500 by the time Saturn hits shelves. Reasonable assumption, JBH. $500 is still weighty for a lot of people. Anonymous: Sega, however, cannot deliver a Saturn + CD under $500. JBH: No comment. JH: That's an awfully confidant statement. Anonymous: Understandable, but it's true. I don't think so, Ab. Component parts for this Saturn will make it a $250 base unit, maybe $225, with a $250 CD-ROM, unless they decide wisely to pack it all into one unit. Anonymous: What game systems do you personally own? I have a SNES. :) :) Anonymous: A friend at Sega, Clint Dyer, had a SNES too. =) I worked on a SNES game, so I have a SNES. Haven't bought a Genesis yet. Anonymous: Hey, why bother? =) =) Well, I'll get one. My favorite game for Gen is Herzog Zwei, so I will buy it to play HZ, at least. Anonymous: What types of arcade games do you like? JBH: writing jaguar games in one window and reading IRC in another... "writing jaguar games"???? Oppressor: For Jaguar games, you only need one window? Impressive. One source window? Maybe he's writing comments? :) C'mon, jer. Smash-TV, Contra-3, Gauntlet, Phoenix, Time Pilot '84, Defender, Robotron 2084.. Abaddon: With "NO OS, which the developers LOVE!", the development for Jags has gotta be a joy. JBH: Have you ever wrritten a game in your life? If not, please pipe down. Abaddon: Simple, CS games, yes. Nothing like the Jaguar, though, obviously. Opp: maybe if you could tell us what you're working on? JBH: If they're masochistic, I bet they do! Anonymous: Are those games you liked? ask the 3DO developers if they like the OS. :) JBH: Uhhuh. Jag developers say they like to program the Jag. 3DO programmers say they like to program the 3DO. You figure it out :) yup Nobody CARES how tough it is to write for a system -- as long as you make gobs of money for doing it! 3DO processor is nice, OS is a headache. Anonymous: You never tried, for example, Sega arcade games besides Virtua Racing? Anonymous, unfortunately I have heard the developers are passing the OS and writing to the hardware.. not good news for 3DO MkII We picked the jaguar because there were fewer developers to compete with... JBH: Hmmm, I've played arcade stuff, not as much Sega coin-ops until lately. It would be tough to beat Cystal Dynamics on the first try... Oppressor, what about cost of delivery? cart vs cd? Opp, you could beat Shelly Duval? ;-) Anonymous: Have you seen the F-1 Mega-CD yet? heh. Sorry. not seen F-1 Mega-CD. I know a lot about STI projects, which I can't talk bout. :) ask me about other things than Sega. :) Anonymous: So, what's your impression of Trip Hawkins? Trip looks too slick. Sorta like Jobs. Tripp's got interesting ideas. :) I'd hate to have to pin a finger on him. :) very much a visionary, but I don't think he's quite in sync with reality... Anonymous: Is he good or bad for the 3do? Reality is what you make of it, sometimes. I've heard Jobs looks a little orange these days. Is he a visionary or just a guy on drugs? Time will tell. * ErasrHead likes Trip Hawkins. He's quite an accomplished figure in the gaming industry. I don't know. I think the EA/3DO thing is a lot liek the EA/Amiga thing. I liked working at most of the places I worked at. Hmmm, maybe. I think the 3DO has more to back up the partnership though. EA has a history of doing this. EA really did give Amiga a real foothold. EA said "Amiga is the future" and did a lot of projects for it, then they dumped it. Hmmm, they kept on longer than many would have. :) They said "IBM is the future" and the made the IBM market. and then they said "Genesis is the Future" and they're making Genesis games. Anonymous: True, but for the Amiga it really gave it a foothold it wouldn't have had otherwise. in other words, cut 'em some slack. design decisions come and go Anonymous: But he qualified those statements: Anonymous: Amiga is the future of personal computers, Genesis is the future of game systems. Amiga is the future of personal computers? Anonymous: And moreover, the Amiga's designers have moved on to 3DO, Nope, EA dumped Amiga mostly - they do intial SKU on IBM. Anonymous: And the Genesis is now becoming the Saturn, and we all know here that any given system has only a 5 year turnaround at best, so what's the problem? The Genesis is indeed the established market leader, and the Amiga is a dominant European force, and the next generation Amiga is the 3DO. (in a way, Needle/Mical) No. What I'm saying is, the EA/3DO relationship will probably be much like EA/Amiga, and EA/Sega, and EA/IBM. Anonymous: Impossible. So my question is just why is Anonymous here and not HARD AT WORK ON THE SATURN?!? :-) hehe Opp. HEhehe Because he doesn't work on the Saturn? Amiga popularity in Eurpose is declining. Anonymous: Hawkins owns 5.7% of the stock in 3DO. LucasArts stopped supporting Amiga this year. No more games for Amiga from LucasArts. IBM is now more popular than Amiga in Europe. Anonymous: Hawkins owns 3DO -- he also is EA's big man, no way EA and 3DO will break up. But the 3DO isn't an Amiga and things will probably differ (how much is anyone's guess/personal opinion). EA is a publicly-owned company. JBH: never say never. :) So is 3DO. Trip isn't on the EA board anymore. He relinquished his position at EA. Hawkins will do what's in his best interest... Scarrow: I think the 3DO will be a success. JBH: I hope it will be. I see more promise in it. I think both 3DO and jaguar are high risk... Sega is a safe bet if it comes out... [If personal gain is the issue,] Anonymous: How much stock does he own in EA, and moreover, how can the EA position with IBM, Amiga, Sega etc. be compared if Hawkins is not directing EA's actions? Oppressor: What exactly are you developing for the Jaguar? I'm not sure, JBH. JBH: It's 3D, it's Multi-Player. I can't say much more for about a month more... Anonymous: That's the whole problem. EA will not dump the 3DO because they're joined at the torso. JBH: Believe me, you'll hear about it when we ask for playtesters... Oppressor: What's the name of your company? 4-Play maybe, JBH. Oppressor: Good name, BTW. This is a personal opinion...just the way I feel about EA. 3DO will be a success. I just know it. I bought stock in it, I feel that confident about it. sell your stock, JBH. Anonymous: And why's that? JBH: Thanks, I think the net people will like what I'm working on... JBH: I'm not quite so sure about the mass audience yet... I think everyone is very negative on 3DO...they see past the hype now, and it's not going to get anywhere. 3DO has laid off a lot of their internal development staff. Anonymous: They replaced 'em, tho. I don't think so, James - where'd you hear this? Anonymous: Internal Development Staff? What were they doing, anyway, after rollout? They were working on quite a few games. They laid off all of internal development, if I'm not mistaken. Anonymous: 3DO themselves were supposedly not in the software development business because they promised not to compete with software vendors. Although I did heard a rumor to the contrary, that they were doing things under the EA name or vice-versa... Anonymous: I would never sell 3DO stock now. I don't see 3DO stock really skyrocketing. It'll probably climb slowly but surely. 3DO stock will be terrific when it gets to the right phase. JBH: Besides the obvious flaws, what do you think of the unit? I know people in the industry who are selling short on 3DO. (obvious being: switchbox, stuff like that) Abad: Here are the Jaguar's flaws, a near-complete list: Abad is now known as Abaddon. i know several people who have bought a jaguar. none of them are impressed with 'cybermorph' but i still have hope. [a] The Atari name. This will be easily fixed, as the Sega name was, if Atari gets good games on the market. Exactly. That's what 3DO is trying to define. [B] Shoddy manufacturing. like RF mods. Not having an A/V cable included was dumb, dumb, dumb. Do you own a 3DO, JBH? Anonymous: I will have my own system in under a month. I'm buying both a Jag and 3DO at the same time. IBM manufactured the chips. Abad: I meant, ON THE CHEAP. =) Ah... not the controllers? JBH: :nod: No system is the system-to-end-all-systems. Yup, but I definitely think "one main system" will happen. Anonymous: I sure hope not :( Anonymous: How seriously do you mean that 3DO stock thing? I mean, be honest here. JBH: He wouldn't be throwing sand in your face :) He's an honest guy. Very seriously. Anonymous: Any particular reason they're selling short? Most people seem to think 3DO stock will go down. :) 3DO hasn't shown a profit yet. Anonymous: Now I know I'm not selling the stock. You're looking at it in the short term. 3DO has been losing money since they've first started because they've had no products out. Now, finally, the 3DO is out. Anonymous: That ends as of the next quarter. but there isn't much software available... (3:18am EST, 12-6/93, Anonymous decides to pack it in.) Anyway... I'm going to cruise me too gotta get up early yup I'm leaving too, guys, 'nite, guys Laters. thanks for coming Seeya peoples...fun talking. Sorry I couldn't say much. :) was fun :) Anonymous: Thanks SO much for hanging around! yup No prob. [At this point, people sign off and the IRC discussion ends.]