From media.mit.edu!asb Fri Jan 22 17:03:08 1993
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	[nil "Fri" "22" "January" "1993" "16:58:26" "-0800" "asb@media.mit.edu" "asb@media.mit.edu" nil "114" "MediaMOO Forum:  Should virtual communities be democracies?" "^Date:" nil nil "1"])
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Date:	Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:58:26 -0800
From:	asb@media.mit.edu
To:	msgs@media.mit.edu, mediamoo@media.mit.edu, ni@media.mit.edu,
	social-vr@parc.xerox.com, community-access@parc.xerox.com,
	postech@weber.ucsd.edu
Subject: MediaMOO Forum:  Should virtual communities be democracies?


		   Please come to an semisynchronous forum:
		  SHOULD VIRTUAL COMMUNITIES BE DEMOCRACIES?
				       
				   MediaMOO
		       purple-crayon.media.mit.edu 8888
			    Tuesday, February 2nd
			     9 pm to 10:30 pm EST

I once made the mistake of posting a message entitled "three procedural
proposals" to a privately-run mailing list.  The moderator of the list posted
an angry reply: "This list is not and never has been run by committee.  It
couldn't continue to exist if it were.  THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY."

I responded "Apparently not," and then received a mailbox full of angry
messages from members of the list.  My favorite was the one accusing me of
coming to a party and telling the host what to serve!  The arguments seemed to
hinge on the fact that the moderator spent her time developing and maintaining
the list, and therefore it was hers to do with as she wishes.

Once my indignation died down, I realized that there are practical issues
which can not be ignored: democracy has a high overhead cost.  Who has the
time to hold a virtual office?  Who has the time to run for virtual office?
Who has the time to even read the position papers of those running to make an
informed choice?

In founding a virtual community, one person or group of people invest time and
physical resources.  But as time goes on, others contribute significantly.  Do
they accrue any rights?  Are there any contracts, implicit or explicit, formed
between founders of a community and users?

Does it matter who is paying for the service?  Are the rights of a user of a
commercial service like Prodigy or Compuserve different from users of an MU*
running at the indulgence of a university?


A SEMISYNCHRONOUS FORUM
On MediaMOO, we will have an exploration of these issues in a
"semi-synchronous forum."  We will meet in "the narrative intelligence salon"
on MediaMOO.  Participants are encouraged to discuss the issues through both
synchronous conversation in the room, and asynchronous conversation on a MOO
mailing list "*democracy."

ABOUT MEDIAMOO
MediaMOO is a text-based virtual reality environment (MU*) designed to enhance
professional community amongst media researchers.  You are cordially invited
to come join MediaMOO, regardless of whether you will be able to attend the
forum!

PRACTICAL INFORMATION
To connect to MediaMOO, type:
telnet purple-crayon.media.mit.edu 8888
connect guest

Once there, type "help democracy" for information on how to participate in the
forum.  Typing just "help" provides more general information.

To get your own character, please send us the following information:

*  A brief description of your research interests
*  The name you want for your character
*  An alternative name, if that name is taken
*  Whether you want your real name to be known

ANONYMOUS AND IDENTIFIED CHARACTERS
Each character has a "character name" and may optionally have a
"real_name."  For example, "Amy" is a character whose real_name is
"Amy Bruckman."  On the other hand, "jaime" has no real name.  Real
names don't normally appear, but can be seen with the @whois command.
For example, if you type: 
@whois Amy

The system responds:
Amy's real name is "Amy Bruckman".
Amy can be reached via email as:  asb@media-lab.media.mit.edu

However, if you type:
@whois jaime

The system responds:
jaime has no real name.

Only janitors (administrators of the MOO) can set or change real names.  It's
possible to fool people about who you are in many ways, but real names are
reliable.

You may have an anonymous character, an identified character, or both.
Typically, people give their identified character their real name, and give
their anonymous character a fanciful, made-up name.


CHARACTERS FOR NON-RESEARCHERS
We are not a completely open MOO.  Because our goal is to enhance
community amongst media researchers, you must make some statement of
your research interests in order to be given a character.  Acceptable
research will generously interpreted.

There is one exception to this rule: current members of the Media Lab may
request accounts for others who are not doing any form of research.  In such
cases, email requesting the account must come from the Media Labber on the
other person's behalf.


SUMMARY
Character creation requests should include:
*  A brief description of your research interests
*  The name you want for your character
*  An alternative name, if that name is taken
*  Whether you want your real name to be known

And should be sent to:
MediaMOO-registration@media-lab.media.mit.edu



From igc.apc.org!commem!carl Thu Feb  4 07:01:10 1993
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	[nil "Thu" "4" "February" "1993" "07:01:46" "-0800" "carl%commem@igc.apc.org" "carl%commem@igc.apc.org" nil "25" "PEN abuses" "^Date:" nil nil "2"])
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Date:	Thu, 4 Feb 1993 07:01:46 -0800
From:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: PEN abuses

The December '92 issue of IMPACT! (a magazine put out by the Boston Computer
Society on social impacts of computing) has a good article about PEN, the
community access network run by the city of Santa Monica.  The second half
of the article focuses on problems and abuses encountered with the system.
Specifically, they have trouble with conversation on the system being
dominated by a small, vocal, abusive minority, with the effect that lots
of users don't participate for fear of verbal attacks.

We've seen very similar patterns with Community Memory.  We had always
attributed it to the anonymous nature of the system, but PEN (which 
requires real names) sees the same thing.

The article mentions a number of ways people are dealing with the problem.
Women using PEN (who are under-represented and particularly targeted) have
formed a support group.  A few private conferences have been started.  And
e-mail has been used to confront abusive behaviour in a less charged 
atmosphere than the public conferences.

Part of the potential of computer communications is to reduce social
barriers to communications.  But it appears that it also weakens a lot of
social mechanisms which facilitate communications.

What information or experience do other people have in this area?
-Carl


From atc.boeing.com!douglas Thu Feb  4 10:06:14 1993
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Message-ID: <9302041800.AA23736@cleelum.boeing.com>
Date:	Thu, 4 Feb 1993 10:00:33 -0800
From:	Douglas Schuler <douglas@atc.boeing.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: PEN abuses

I'm glad you brought up the article, Carl.

The article in IMPACT! on PEN was very interesting and filled with
issues that community network organizers need to deal with.  Some of
the author's criticisms dealt with the problems they've had using
the PEN system to support participatory democracy.   I can recall two 
problems in this area.  One was that if an elected official ventured
an opinion on-line, he or she was immediately besieged with comments
from other PEN users.  Some of these comments were irrelevent to the
posting itself and were just barbs at politicians in general.  Another
problem concerned time.  When politicians or other government employees
attempted to incorporate electronic communication into their schedules
they found that it took a large amount of time - time that they'd have
to take from other areas.   Some of them eventually gave up due to 
perceived lack of benefit for the effort they had made.

Some of the factors that may be relevent (IMO) include:

  + People's inexperience with electronic medium 
     (people have yet to master (whatever *that* means) the medium)  

  + The nature of democracy itself  

  + Characterisics of the PEN system (e.g. from what I gather, it
      mostly supports a "chat" mode which may encourage people to
      type in whatever comes into their mind at a given time)

  + The nature of Santa Monica  (Santa Monica apparently has a high
      percentage of FRUMPIES (Formerly radical upwardly mobile 
      professionals)

These concerns are especially important with PEN because it was established 
to support precisely these types of issues.

-- Doug

From media.mit.edu!asb Thu Feb  4 10:21:15 1993
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Message-ID: <9302041819.AA15087@media.mit.edu>
Date:	Thu, 4 Feb 1993 10:19:08 -0800
From:	asb@media.mit.edu
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
cc:	asb@media.mit.edu
Subject: MediaMOO forum on democracy


Carl asked me to post here a summary of the MediaMOO forum on democracy.

I guess I would call it more of a brainstorming session than an orderly
discussion.  Synchronous online conversations seem to often form multiple
threads.  When you have a dozen people talking, think of it as the scrap bin
in a tailor shop... lots of very short threads of many colors!

For me personally, the most interesting idea was to compare the governance of
virtual communities to a condominium board or school board.  People
participate in their free time because they care about the community.  They
get no remuneration, but influence and power in exchange for their trouble.
People often use those committees as a place to work out anxieties which are
really coming from another part of their life.  (They hate their job and are
having troubles with their spouse, and then initiate an argument at the coop
board meeting out of proportion with the gravity of the issues being
discussed.)  There aren't enough checks and balances built into the
system, so for example coop or condo boards are often accused of
racial prejudice.

Another intersting analogy is a zoning commission.  In theory, we'd like to
say that if you "own" the land, you can put what you want there.  But in
practice, community controls in the form of zoning are necessary to keep up
the over all quality, for everyone's benefit.  If you're not careful, you end
up with a "tragedy of the commons."

To return to the analogy of a coop or condo board, in many cases, there is no
such board.  People who rent apartments can move somewhere else if they don't
like what the landlord is doing.  Most commercial network services are more
like rental apartments than condos.


We talked about many things; these are just the analogies that interested 
me.  If you'd like to continue this conversation, please come by
MediaMOO!

Try:
telnet purple-crayon.media.mit.edu 8888
connect guest
help create

-- Amy


From hpljaj.hpl.hp.com!jjohnson Thu Feb  4 17:01:50 1993
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             <9302041501.AA20281@igc.apc.org>ec"
Message-ID: <9302050059.AA01682@hpljaj.hpl.hp.com>
Date:	Thu, 4 Feb 1993 16:59:28 -0800
From:	Jeff Johnson <jjohnson@hpljaj.hpl.hp.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: PEN abuses


> Specifically, they have trouble with conversation on the system being
> dominated by a small, vocal, abusive minority, with the effect that lots
> of users don't participate for fear of verbal attacks.

Hmmm.  Sounds like the old Telecom.priv, and is why I stopped
submitting Calling Nunber ID news and commentary there:  it drew too
many abusive flamers.

At last year's DIAC conference, sysops for the Well, SF Net, and other
services described various methods for dealing with obnoxious users.

One method I recall is to build into the system the ability for any
user to automatically reject or filter out messages from any other. 
It's important that users whose messages are filtered by others be
*told* that, so they know that they are bothering others.  In systems
where users make up their own "handles", people who find themselves
filtered under one alias may just exit and come back in as another, but
over time they may tone down their obnoxiousness.

JJ

From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Sun Feb  7 13:14:29 1993
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Message-ID: <9302071214.AA17809@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us>
Date:	Sun, 7 Feb 1993 12:14:14 -0800
From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Foobar Spam)
To:	carl%commem@netcom.com
cc:	parc.xerox.com!community-access@netcom.com
Subject: Re: PEN abuses

> <some deleted>
> 
> Part of the potential of computer communications is to reduce social
> barriers to communications.  But it appears that it also weakens a lot of
> social mechanisms which facilitate communications.
> 
> What information or experience do other people have in this area?
> -Carl
> 

We have the exact same experience on our county wide network here in
some of the discussion forums.

In addition, I have also noticed the same behavior patterns on every 
academic or industry network I have ever been on.

Doug mentioned some discussion at DIAC about how to allow people 
to 'turn off' abusers and obnoxious jerks. This boils down, technically,
to having the system comm software support selective gagging on named
individuals.

On a slightly esoteric note, this reminds me a little of Santa Cruz.
The earthquake of '89 pretty much leveled the downtown. When the plans
for rebuilding were discussed, the City Fathers decided they wanted to
change a couple of things. There had been a 'problem' before the quake
with homeless persons, dead heads, street people of various flavors,
hanging out downtown. The merchants decided that these people were scaring
away business. So when the oppertunity to rebuild the downtown opened
up, one of the things they told the planners was that they wanted no
shade trees on the sidewalks, no long benches to sit on under the shade
trees, etc. In short, they asked the planners to submit an architecture 
designed to exclude a certain class of people.

While the technical ability to selectively gag, or exclude, undesirable
elements from discussions is easy to implement and already has been in
many networks, I am disturbed by the intent which is implied. Not 
necessarily disturbed as in against the concept, disturbed in the sense
that this is something we might want to examine in our roles of
network providers/consumers.

An alternative path is to try to provide the kind of leadership and 
support so gagging is not necessary. This would include the
following elements:

1. orientation of new users to the net and VR relationships. preferable
   to kicking them off the pier and expecting them to adapt overnight.
   seminars, workshops, etc.

2. not moderators, but 'wise elders' (?) to monitor forums, and if
   an individual starts tending to abuse or obnoxiousness, engage in
   email discussions to try to work it out in private. these people
   take a certain amount of responsibility for the _tone_ of forum
   discussions (not the content, which is what moderators or censors
   do)

3. periodic face to face gatherings, for people to meet each other in
   RL and develop 'meat' relationships (as our cyberpunk friends in
   Mondo 2000 might characterize it).

4. keep discussion forums limited to a local geography of participants
   if possible (to make #3 above possible)

As I say, I am not necessarily against the technical controls, especially
as they allow the network user to 'fine tune' their incoming signal to 
noise ratio as they see fit. 

I would rather see a network culture develop in which use of kill files
or gags was never thought necessary, where everyone can participate and
feel powerful and safe without need of technical compensators (for the
overly agressive or overly 'timid').

In that sense, getting the computers, phone lines, hardware and software
is the easy part. Putting together the safe community is the hard part.

ccn

-- 
	"This looks like a good place to pitch camp. 
	 Art's too subtle for these swine..."
			-Knuckle Buckalo

	          chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us

From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Sun Feb  7 16:21:51 1993
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Message-ID: <9302071439.AA19382@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us>
Date:	Sun, 7 Feb 1993 14:39:57 -0800
From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Foobar Spam)
To:	cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris@netcom.com (Foobar Spam)
cc:	carl%commem@netcom.com, parc.xerox.com!community-access@netcom.com
Subject: Re: PEN abuses

> 
> Doug mentioned some discussion at DIAC about how to allow people 
> to 'turn off' abusers and obnoxious jerks. 

Whoops.
Jeff was the one who mentioned this stuff.

ccn

From hpljaj.hpl.hp.com!jjohnson Mon Feb  8 09:23:32 1993
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In-Reply-to: "Your message of \"Sun, 07 Feb 93 12:14:14 PST.\"
             <9302071214.AA17809@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us>i-Fi S"
Message-ID: <9302081719.AA03732@hpljaj.hpl.hp.com>
Date:	Mon, 8 Feb 1993 09:19:43 -0800
From:	Jeff Johnson <jjohnson@hpljaj.hpl.hp.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: PEN abuses


> Doug mentioned some discussion at DIAC about how to allow people 
> to 'turn off' abusers and obnoxious jerks. This boils down, technically,
> to having the system comm software support selective gagging on named
> individuals.

No it doesn't.  It boils down to letting individual users filter
incoming messages.  No one is excluded from the system.  Everyone can
continue using it.  Obnoxious flamers can keep right on flaming.  But
those who don't want to listen to them don't have to.  This sort of
functionality is a subset of the "information lens" technology that Tom
Malone and others have suggested for years:  give people mail filters
based upon, e.g., topic, sender, date, etc.  Such functionality can be
provided regardless of whether the system is e-mail based or bulletin-board-based.

JJ

From parc.xerox.com!pavel Mon Feb  8 10:16:46 1993
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	[nil "Mon" "8" "February" "1993" "09:57:58" "-0800" "Pavel Curtis" "Pavel@parc.xerox.com" nil "26" "Re: PEN abuses" "^Date:" nil nil "2"])
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References: <9302071214.AA17809@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us>
	<9302081719.AA03732@hpljaj.hpl.hp.com>
Date:	Mon, 8 Feb 1993 09:57:58 -0800
From:	Pavel Curtis <Pavel@parc.xerox.com>
To:	jjohnson@hpljaj.hpl.hp.com
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: PEN abuses

> Date:	Mon, 8 Feb 1993 09:19:43 -0800
> From:	Jeff Johnson <jjohnson@hpljaj.hpl.hp.com>
> 
> It boils down to letting individual users filter incoming messages.  No one
> is excluded from the system.  Everyone can continue using it.  Obnoxious
> flamers can keep right on flaming.  But those who don't want to listen to
> them don't have to.

I think that it may be naive to believe that gagging at the receiver is really
enough of a solution to the `obnoxious jerk' problem.  On LambdaMOO, a question
like the following arose:

    Suppose that a jerk enters a public room and begins making slanderous
    comments about you.  In response, you gag that person.  Other folks in the
    room, however, see the slander continue and, further, do *not* see you
    defending yourself against the accusations.  By the frequently-used
    `silence gives consent' assumption, you are losing a great deal of face, so
    isn't your gagging of the jerk worse than ineffective in protecting you?

(The actual question on LambdaMOO concerned sexual harrassment, and whether or
not the gagger was still being harrassed.)

I think that virtual societies may need more collective mechanisms for
protection than simple, individual-receiver gagging.

	Pavel

From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Mon Feb  8 13:19:18 1993
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	Rece"
Message-ID: <9302081218.AA28255@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us>
Date:	Mon, 8 Feb 1993 12:18:52 -0800
From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Foobar Spam)
To:	hpljaj.hpl.hp.com!jjohnson@netcom.com (Jeff Johnson)
cc:	hpljaj.hpl.hp.com!parc.xerox.com!community-access@netcom.com
Subject: Re: PEN abuses

> > Doug mentioned some discussion at DIAC about how to allow people 
> > to 'turn off' abusers and obnoxious jerks. This boils down, technically,
> > to having the system comm software support selective gagging on named
> > individuals.
> 
> No it doesn't.  It boils down to letting individual users filter
> incoming messages.  No one is excluded from the system.  Everyone can
> continue using it.  Obnoxious flamers can keep right on flaming.  But
> those who don't want to listen to them don't have to.

I am using the term 'gagging' in the MUD sense, which is exactly 
as you describe above.

I also didn't mean to imply, with my blurb about the re-planning
of the SC downtown, that a user be excluded physically (or virtually)
from the system. Merely that architecting such mechanisms into the
system don't deal with the core problem, merely a symptom.

The real problem has to do with the dynamics of VR relationships.
There is no software solution to _that_ problem.

One thing that needs to be remembered is that we are people networkers,
not computer networkers. (A point brought up by a CPSR person at one
of the DIAC panel discussion...) There is a point where the technology 
can take us no further, at least unilaterally. We also need to be working 
on the human side.

So yeah, let's put filters in the software.
But let's also make them unnecessary.

How many people on this mail list are on the west coast?
Let's all meet for dinner at a Chinese restaurant with a banquet room
and some hot sake and get into this. It's a tough nut.

Who's flying into town for the Privacy conference, or Usenix?
How 'bout it Peter?

ccn

From eagle.mit.edu!presnick Mon Feb  8 13:20:28 1993
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	[nil "Mon" "8" "February" "1993" "13:21:03" "-0800" "Paul Resnick" "presnick@eagle.mit.edu " nil "28" "Re: PEN abuses" "^Date:" nil nil "2"])
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Message-Id: <9302082119.AA07567@EAGLE.MIT.EDU>
Date:	Mon, 8 Feb 1993 13:21:03 -0800
From:	presnick@eagle.mit.edu (Paul Resnick)
To:	Pavel Curtis <Pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: PEN abuses

> From: Pavel Curtis <Pavel@parc.xerox.com>
> Date:   Mon, 8 Feb 1993 09:57:58 PST
> 

> I think that virtual societies may need more collective mechanisms for
> protection than simple, individual-receiver gagging.
> 

I agree. We already have many informal collective mechanisms that work to
varying extents in real communities, and a few less powerful ones that work
on-line.  Extending the on-line mechanisms is a very interesting area of
research. The Information Tapestry project at PARC, as reported in the Dec.
1992 issue of CACM, appears to provide building blocks for such mechanisms. It
allows users to select which electronic documents to read based not only on the
contents of the documents but based on comments about the documents that others
have submitted.  Perhaps your are involved in this project, Pavel.

It would be interesting to think about ways to apply collective filtering
methods to the real-time conversations of MUDs.

Of course, filtering techniques are only one way of taking action to prevent
flaming. The original message that began this conversation did suggest some
more social mechanisms, such as education and wise elders, that could be
institutionalized as well. Are there more ideas along these lines? Are there
ways to ensure the effects of collective filtering will be educational for the
people being filtered?

-Paul-

From igc.apc.org!commem!carl Thu Feb 11 19:46:28 1993
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Date:	Thu, 11 Feb 1993 19:47:33 -0800
From:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: PEN abuses

As I recall, the discussion about gagging on the DIAC panel was about a feature
on Wayne Gregorio's SF Net, which provided some feedback to the speaker (and
maybe other listeners) that gagging was taking place.  Thus it wasn't only a
way of letting a listener protect him- or her-self; it was a form of reverse
communications as well.
I think there are two kinds of situations leading to the types of abuse we're
discussing:
 - well-meaning people aren't getting adequate feedback as to how they come
   across
 - people take advantage of the distancing provided by computer media to 
   behave in ways they always wanted to but normally wouldn't.
I don't have any feel for the relative prevalence of these two causes.  But in
both cases more visibility for people's negative reactions would help.
-Carl


From eagle.mit.edu!presnick Fri Feb 12 05:39:45 1993
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	[nil "Fri" "12" "February" "1993" "05:36:23" "-0800" "Paul Resnick" "presnick@eagle.mit.edu " nil "14" "private feedback vs. public embarassment" "^Date:" nil nil "2"])
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Message-ID: <9302121334.AA17374@EAGLE.MIT.EDU>
Date:	Fri, 12 Feb 1993 05:36:23 -0800
From:	presnick@eagle.mit.edu (Paul Resnick)
To:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: private feedback vs. public embarassment


> I think there are two kinds of situations leading to the types of abuse we're
> discussing:
>  - well-meaning people aren't getting adequate feedback as to how they come
>    across
>  - people take advantage of the distancing provided by computer media to 
>    behave in ways they always wanted to but normally wouldn't.
> I don't have any feel for the relative prevalence of these two causes.  But
> in both cases more visibility for people's negative reactions would help.

Yes. The feedback needs to be different in the two cases, however. Case 1 calls
for private feedback, case 2 for public embarrassment, filtering, or gagging.

-Paul-

From eagle.mit.edu!presnick Fri Feb 12 05:42:05 1993
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	[nil "Fri" "12" "February" "1993" "05:37:57" "-0800" "Paul Resnick" "presnick@eagle.mit.edu " nil "7" "filtering vs. gagging" "^Date:" nil nil "2"])
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Message-ID: <9302121336.AA17393@EAGLE.MIT.EDU>
Date:	Fri, 12 Feb 1993 05:37:57 -0800
From:	presnick@eagle.mit.edu (Paul Resnick)
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: filtering vs. gagging

Prompted by Pavel's note a few messages back, here's my cut at the distinction
between filtering and gagging:

-- filtering: I don't hear what you say
-- gagging: everyone (or at least many others) can't hear what you say

-Paul-

From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Fri Feb 12 10:13:31 1993
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In-Reply-to: "<9302121334.AA17374@EAGLE.MIT.EDU>; from \"Paul Resnick\" at Feb 12, 93 5:36 am"
Message-ID: <9302120842.AA17200@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us>
Date:	Fri, 12 Feb 1993 08:42:47 -0800
From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Foobar Spam)
To:	presnick@eagle.mit.edu (Paul Resnick)
cc:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org, community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: private feedback vs. public embarassment

> > I think there are two kinds of situations leading to the types of abuse
> > we're discussing:
> >  - well-meaning people aren't getting adequate feedback as to how they come
> >    across
> >  - people take advantage of the distancing provided by computer media to 
> >    behave in ways they always wanted to but normally wouldn't.
> > I don't have any feel for the relative prevalence of these two causes.  But
> > in both cases more visibility for people's negative reactions would help.
> 
> Yes. The feedback needs to be different in the two cases, however. Case 1
> calls for private feedback, case 2 for public embarrassment, filtering, or
> gagging.

Public embarrassment?
I have never found that to be a workable alternative in any relationship,
much less a VR relationship. It always escalates the situation. To illustrate,
if you have USENET newsgroups, go to the ca.politics newsgroup, and post
an article in favor of confiscation by the government of privately owned
assault weapons. When an aggressive net personality responds with something 
like "Only an idiot would propose such a thing" or some other personal insult, 
try to embarrass them publically into silence.

If our goal is to promote online communities and as much of a violence
and abuse free VR society as possible, I don't see public embarrassment
as being compatible. 

I also see the filter approach as being not necessarily the best way of
solving the problem, which is that communication is in a "conflict mode".
The purpose of the software filters basically boil down to choosing
a subset of all available messages based on some selection criteria. 
Such tools are perfect for their real purpose, but are they really 
the best means of modifying behavior, or resolving ego/turf based conflicts?

If I look at my RL marriage, and apply the "filter" approach to my wife 
during an argument, it would look something like this:

Peggy: blah blah blah blah blah

Chris: (plugging ears) I'm not listening to you.

Peggy: BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Chris: (ears still plugged) I'm not listening to you.

Peggy: (storms out of room, totally furious now)


Eh? I shudder at the thought.
As Pavel points out, in some types of conflicts, filtering out
would not even be a form of protection.

After saying all that, maybe it would be good to contact Wayne at sfnet
to hear more about his experiences. Does the @gag on LambdaMOO inform
a person or object being gagged when it has been engaged, Pavel? I
see that ours (using the Lambda core db) does not.

I'll try giving wayne a call. (noting that one of the problems with pure
chat systems is that sending email is not possible...) 

ccn

-- 
	"This looks like a good place to pitch camp. 
	 Art's too subtle for these swine..."
			-Knuckle Buckalo

	          chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us

From access.digex.com!hecker Fri Feb 12 10:29:55 1993
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	[nil "Fri" "12" "February" "1993" "10:14:43" "-0800" "Frank Hecker" "hecker@access.digex.com" "<Pine.3.05.9302121310.B4955-b100000@access>" "43" "Re: filtering vs. gagging" "^Date:" nil nil "2"])
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Message-ID: <Pine.3.05.9302121310.B4955-b100000@access>
Date:	Fri, 12 Feb 1993 10:14:43 -0800
From:	Frank Hecker <hecker@access.digex.com>
To:	Paul Resnick <presnick@eagle.mit.edu>
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: filtering vs. gagging
Reply-to: Frank Hecker <hecker@access.digex.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Fri, 12 Feb 1993, Paul Resnick wrote:
> Prompted by Pavel's note a few messages back, here's my cut at the
> distinction between filtering and gagging: 
>
> -- filtering: I don't hear what you say
> -- gagging: everyone (or at least many others) can't hear what you say

It's good to clarify what we're talking about.  I think this issue admits
of even narrower distinctions, along the following axes: 

1) Who can take the action of cutting off unwanted messages (e.g., the
intended recipient, a system administrator, etc.)?

2) For whom is the action effective (e.g., only the recipient, selected
others, "everyone")? 

3) Who knows that the action has taken place (e.g., the recipient, the
sender, others)? 

In the pure filtering model as I see it, the recipient takes the action,
it is only effective for the recipient, and only the recipient knows that
filtering is being done (unless they volunteer the information to the
sender or others). 

At the other end of the spectrum, everyone would know the action had taken
place (including the sender) and the action would be universally
effective, i.e., the sender could not communicate with anyone, period, and
(at least in any system I'd help design) this severe an action could be
carried out only by a system administrator or other authority figure.  I
might reserve the pure term "gagging" for this model. 

As others have noted the @gag function on MUDs doesn't seem to be this
extreme, and is somewhere between pure filtering and pure gagging as I
have used those terms.

Frank

Frank Hecker
hecker@access.digex.com





From parc.xerox.com!pavel Fri Feb 12 11:52:47 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Fri" "12" "February" "1993" "11:50:28" "-0800" "Pavel Curtis" "Pavel@parc.xerox.com" nil "10" "Re: private feedback vs. public embarassment" "^Date:" nil nil "2"])
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References: <9302120842.AA17200@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us>
	<9302121334.AA17374@EAGLE.MIT.EDU>
Date:	Fri, 12 Feb 1993 11:50:28 -0800
From:	Pavel Curtis <Pavel@parc.xerox.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: private feedback vs. public embarassment

> Date:	Fri, 12 Feb 1993 08:42:47 -0800
> From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Foobar Spam)
> 
> Does the @gag on LambdaMOO inform a person or object being gagged when it has
> been engaged, Pavel?

No, though I thought about doing something like this after hearing Wayne at
DIAC, I never did get around to it.

	Pavel

From parc.xerox.com!pavel Fri Feb 12 11:55:46 1993
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	[nil "Fri" "12" "February" "1993" "11:52:32" "-0800" "Pavel Curtis" "Pavel@parc.xerox.com" nil "20" "Re: filtering vs. gagging" "^Date:" nil nil "2"])
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References: <9302121336.AA17393@EAGLE.MIT.EDU>
	<Pine.3.05.9302121310.B4955-b100000@access>
Date:	Fri, 12 Feb 1993 11:52:32 -0800
From:	Pavel Curtis <Pavel@parc.xerox.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: filtering vs. gagging

> Date:	Fri, 12 Feb 1993 10:14:43 -0800
> From:	Frank Hecker <hecker@access.digex.com>

...

> In the pure filtering model as I see it, the recipient takes the action,
> it is only effective for the recipient, and only the recipient knows that
> filtering is being done (unless they volunteer the information to the
> sender or others). 

...

> As others have noted the @gag function on MUDs doesn't seem to be this
> extreme, and is somewhere between pure filtering and pure gagging as I
> have used those terms.

Actually, I think it's precisely pure filtering, by your definition.  In what
way does it differ?

	Pavel

From atc.boeing.com!douglas Fri Feb 12 14:44:02 1993
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	[nil "Fri" "12" "February" "1993" "14:19:41" "-0800" "Douglas Schuler" "douglas@atc.boeing.com" nil "206" "Survey  -- please check this out..." "^Date:" nil nil "2"])
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Date:	Fri, 12 Feb 1993 14:19:41 -0800
From:	Douglas Schuler <douglas@atc.boeing.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Survey  -- please check this out...


Community access participants,

Enclosed is the latest version of the Commuity Access Networks Survey.
It's revised based on comments from several of you.    I'll make
the results available at any time to individuals plus I can mail to
the list.  I'd really like [1] to get completed surveys back; [2] to
have you'all re-post this request to likely people; and [3] get
addresses from you of people who I should contact.

Thanks .. thanks .. thanks ..  thanks ..  thanks ..


-- Doug




                                                     February 12, 1993



I am currently compiling information on Community-oriented computer networks
in the United States and around the world that exist now or are being
implemented.  I am hoping to use the information in an article on "Community 
Networks" for Communications of the ACM.  Whether or not I use the 
information in an article, I will be making all the information publicly
available in hardcopy and electronic form.

I am asking people who are responsible for planned and existing community
networks, if they could take the time to fill out the enclosed survey.  If
you know of other systems that I may not know about, I would appreciate it
if you would send me information on how to contact them or send them a copy
of the survey.

The survey is intended to capture the important aspects of community
networks.  I'd appreciate your filling it out as completely as you can,
knowing that it is imperfect.  Please feel free to supplement the answers
with any additional pertinent information.   I've also enclosed a "working
definition" of community networks which you may find useful.  I'm very
interested in any feedback you have on the approach, the survey, the working
definition or any other aspect of this project.

Thanks very much for your time and consideration.





               Doug Schuler         douglas@atc.boeing.com
               2202 N. 41st St.     Phone: 206-865-3832 [work]
               Seattle, WA  91803   Phone: 206-632-1659 [home]
                                    FAX: 206-865-2964




                   Community Network - Working Definition
 
 A community network is a computer-based electronic network that provides a
 wide range of community-based information to the people in a community for
 little or no cost.   Although not a requirement, these systems are
 generally administered by non-profit groups or governmental agencies.
 Extra attention is paid to providing access to people who traditionally
 have little or no access to electronic information and services.
 Generally community networks are activist-oriented - they have been
 established primarily to meet social needs rather than financial goals.
 Outreach to the community and feedback from the community are vital to the
 system. 
 



=======================================================================



                 Community Access Networks Survey
			  (2/8/93 version)


NOTE: This information will be made public.

Date: __________________________________________________________________

System Name: ___________________________________________________________

Information supplied by: _______________________________________________

Contact person's name: _________________________________________________

Contact person information: [address, phone, FAX, e-mail, etc.] ________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Description of existing or planned system: _____________________________

System's purpose: ______________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Services available: ____________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Organization name: _____________________________________________________

Organization type: [non-profit educational, etc.] ______________________

Organization description: [committee names and tasks, advisory and other 
boards, decision-making processes] _____________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Status: [planned, prototype, operational, etc.] ________________________

When did service begin (or when are services planned to begin)? ________

Affiliations: (e.g. NPTN) ______________________________________________

Annual (1993) budget: __________________________________________________

Dial-up phone number(s): _______________________________________________

Internet address: ______________________________________________________

Access methods: [public terminals, dial-up, etc.(usage percentages would 
be useful)] ____________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Who can get an account?: _______________________________________________

Restrictions on user or institutional participation: ___________________

How to get an account: _________________________________________________

Usage fee policy: ______________________________________________________

Information policy information [e.g. profanity, copywrited material, 
privacy, commercial use, etc.]:_________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Material available: [published or on-line] _____________________________

Target populations: ____________________________________________________

User population statistics: ____________________________________________

Geographic service area: _______________________________________________

Cooperating organizations: _____________________________________________

Number of accounts: ____________________________________________________

Average number of logins per day: ______________________________________

System hardware and software: __________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Staff: [volunteers and paid, titles, job descriptions, hours worked per 
week, etc.] ____________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Technological infrastructure (including software, hardware, access and 
distibution technology): _______________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

Other information: _____________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________


Please return (along with any other relevant information) to Doug Schuler:

  Address: 2202 N. 41st St., Seattle, WA  98103
  Email: douglas@atc.boeing.com       
  FAX: 206-865-2964

Thank you very much!



From access.digex.com!hecker Sat Feb 13 09:33:00 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Sat" "13" "February" "1993" "09:28:28" "-0800" "Frank Hecker" "hecker@access.digex.com" nil "14" "Re: filtering vs. gagging" "^Date:" nil nil "2"])
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Date:	Sat, 13 Feb 1993 09:28:28 -0800
From:	Frank Hecker <hecker@access.digex.com>
To:	Pavel Curtis <Pavel@parc.xerox.com>
Cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: filtering vs. gagging
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 12 Feb 1993, Pavel Curtis wrote re my notion of how @gag worked
on MUDs:
> Actually, I think it's precisely pure filtering, by your definition.  In
> what way does it differ? 

Mea culpa; you are correct.  I had thought that using @gag notified others
of the action, which in fact is not the case. 

Frank

Frank Hecker
hecker@access.digex.com



From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Fri Feb 26 20:06:59 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Fri" "26" "February" "1993" "20:02:45" "-0800" "chris" "chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us " nil "23" "Dinner In San Francisco and SFNet" "^Date:" nil nil "2"])
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Date:	Fri, 26 Feb 1993 20:02:45 -0800
From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (chris)
To:	community-access@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Subject: Dinner In San Francisco and SFNet

	A dinner has been set up for Friday, March 5 in San Francisco
	to shoot the breeze and discuss VR relationships, abuse,
	gagging, etc.

	So far, it will be Wayne Gregori of sfnet, Carl of commem and
	myself. If anyone else is in the area and wants to come along,
	let me know. We'll be meeting at Wayne's place, then visit one
	of the sfnet sites in the Haight before heading off to eat in
	the SOMA.

	An update on SFNet:

	Wayne is still running a modified version of TBBS under DOS
	on an intel machine. He has 30 dial in lines and 15 table/terminals
	in various cafes currently. The tables are normal cafe tables
	with a screen under the glass table top, keyboards which fold out 
	of the way when not in use, modems, and coin boxes. He claims
	they're pretty reliable and robust in the field.

	SFNet will be Internet e-mail-able in a month or so. At that
	time, we can add him to this list.

	ccn

From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Wed Mar 10 20:22:06 1993
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	[nil "Wed" "10" "March" "1993" "20:15:30" "-0800" "chris" "chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us " nil "25" "VR Abuse, SFNet, Dinner In SF" "^Date:" nil nil "3"])
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Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1993 20:15:30 -0800
From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (chris)
To:	community-access@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Subject: VR Abuse, SFNet, Dinner In SF


	I have been sitting here trying to summarize what all
	happened at our dinner in SF, but discussion was pretty
	far flung and covered many of the points we all have in 
	common with our ventures:

	1. hardware/software

	2. philosophy (what are we trying to do here?)

	3. organization

	4. community building and VR relationships

	It was so good to get together with Carl, Douglas, Tobias,
	and Paul just to share experiences. I always pick up good
	wisdom from talking with Carl and hearing about Community
	Memory's experiences.

	Is it time to hold a conference on Community Networking?
	If we have it at Xerox Parc, Pavel can demo the Jupiter
	system...

	Eh?


From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!netcomsv.netcom.com!parc.xerox.com!pavel Fri Mar 12 22:48:19 1993
Status: RO
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References: <9303102015.AA19490@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us>
Date:	Fri, 12 Mar 1993 17:06:15 -0800
From:	Pavel Curtis <parc.xerox.com!Pavel@netcom.com>
Sender: netcomsv.netcom.com!parc.xerox.com!pavel@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
To:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
cc:	community-access@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Subject: Re: VR Abuse, SFNet, Dinner In SF

> Date:	Wed, 10 Mar 1993 20:15:30 -0800
> From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (chris)
> 
> 	Is it time to hold a conference on Community Networking?

I don't think that we are yet reaching a large enough segment of the Community
Networking community with this mailing list to try to organize a conference on
the subject.  Witness the fact that the list is generally pretty dead.  If any
of y'all know of folks who should be on this list but aren't, pass the word
along to them.  I'd love it if we could get a bit closer to critical mass.

	Pavel

From csli.stanford.edu!pine Mon Mar 15 09:06:18 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Mon" "15" "March" "1993" "09:05:26" "-0800" "Evelyn Pine" "pine@csli.stanford.edu" "<9303151705.AA15900@CSLI.Stanford.EDU>" "7" "Re: VR Abuse, SFNet, Dinner In SF" "^Date:" nil nil "3"])
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Date:	Mon, 15 Mar 1993 09:05:26 -0800
From:	Evelyn Pine <pine@csli.stanford.edu>
To:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us, parc.xerox.com!Pavel@netcom.com
Cc:	community-access@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Subject: Re: VR Abuse, SFNet, Dinner In SF

The difficulty is that I'm not sure who is on the list already.
Are there a lot of lurkers? It would be great if we had
representatives from each Freenet, some folks from PEN, 
folks from coconet, etc.  As well as people from bulletin
boards that have a local focus & the larger nonprofit networks
that create communities of interest (Peacenet, Handsnet, SeniorNet
come to mind.

From access.digex.com!hecker Mon Mar 15 11:16:23 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Mon" "15" "March" "1993" "09:29:13" "-0800" "Frank Hecker" "hecker@access.digex.com" nil "31" "Re: VR Abuse, SFNet, Dinner In SF" "^Date:" nil nil "3"])
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Date:	Mon, 15 Mar 1993 09:29:13 -0800
From:	Frank Hecker <hecker@access.digex.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: VR Abuse, SFNet, Dinner In SF
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 15 Mar 1993, Pavel Curtis wrote:
> > From:	Evelyn Pine <pine@csli.stanford.edu>
> > ...
> > It would be great if we had representatives from each Freenet, some folks
> > from PEN, folks from coconet, etc.  As well as people from bulletin boards
> > that have a local focus & the larger nonprofit networks that create
> > communities of interest (Peacenet, Handsnet, SeniorNet come to mind.
> 
> Some of you can tell far better than I whether or not we're reaching those
> folks and then probably know more about who those people are and how to
> contact them.  Please, those of you who can reach others involved in
> Community Access, do so; the more folks in this area communicate, the more
> likely we all are to succeed. 

Well, I can tell you that at least we have good representation from
CapAccess (formally, the National Capital Area Public Access Network,
Inc.), which will be the Washington, D.C., area Free-Net equivalent.  Paul
Hyland is working on CapAccess policies, Paul Masline has been active in
publicity, especially on the net, Richard Civille is co-chair of the User
Services committee, and I am co-chair of the Technical committee and the
de facto system administrator for now.

Re Pavel's request, I'll pass info about the list on to others involved in
CapAcess, in particular those on the Steering Committee. 

Frank

Frank Hecker
hecker@access.digex.com



From parc.xerox.com!pavel Mon Mar 15 13:25:45 1993
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	[nil "Mon" "15" "March" "1993" "09:14:43" "-0800" "Pavel Curtis" "Pavel@parc.xerox.com" nil "69" "Re: VR Abuse, SFNet, Dinner In SF" "^Date:" nil nil "3"])
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In-Reply-to: <9303151705.AA15900@CSLI.Stanford.EDU>
Message-ID: <93Mar15.091455pst.58373@mu.parc.xerox.com>
References: <9303151705.AA15900@CSLI.Stanford.EDU>
Date:	Mon, 15 Mar 1993 09:14:43 -0800
From:	Pavel Curtis <Pavel@parc.xerox.com>
To:	pine@csli.stanford.edu
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: VR Abuse, SFNet, Dinner In SF

> Date:	Mon, 15 Mar 1993 09:05:26 -0800
> From:	Evelyn Pine <pine@csli.stanford.edu>
> 
> The difficulty is that I'm not sure who is on the list already.

Good point.  Here's the current list:

	A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk			(Alan Hunter)
	anamioka@atc.boeing.com			(Aki Namioka)
	andyo@ora.com				(Andy Oram)
	asb@media-lab.media.mit.edu		(Amy Bruckman)
	blau@eff.org				(Andrew Blau)
	cfarrington@igc.org			(Carl Farrington)
	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us		(Chris Neklason)
	civille@washofc.cpsr.org		(Richard Civille)
	cwhitcom@bentley.bitnet			(Coralee Whitcomb)
	douglas@atc.boeing.com			(Doug Schuler)
	fidelman@world.std.com			(Miles R Fidelman)
	hecker@digex.com			(Frank Hecker)
	jjohnson@hplabs.hp.com			(Jeff Johnson)
	jpallen@ics.uci.edu			(Jonathan Allen)
	mevard@media.mit.edu			(Michele Evard)
	microx@well.sf.ca.us			(Mary Eisenhart)
	mres@media.mit.edu			(Mitchel Resnick)
	mt@media.mit.edu			(Michael Travers)
	pavel@xerox.com				(Pavel Curtis)
	peterm@rwing.uucp			(Peter Marshall)
	phil@atc.boeing.com			(Phil Harrison)
	phoenixl@netcom.com			(Scott Luebking)
	phyland@gwuvm.gwu.edu			(Paul Hyland)
	pine@csli.stanford.edu			(Evelyn Pine)
	pjm@access.digex.com			(Paul Masline)
	presnick@mit.edu			(Paul Resnick)
	ptw08@linknet.com			(Peter Miller)
	rich@tosh.wcc.govt.nz			(Richard Naylor)
	rmarcus@atc.boeing.com			(Bob Marcus)
	robertb@barra.com			(Robert Brown)
	robinson@delni.enet.dec.com		(Andrew Robinson)
	rodney@oxy.edu				(Rodney Hoffman)
	rweiss@netcom.com			(Richard Weiss)
	TERRYB%UCSFVM.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu (Terry Beynart)
	th1r+@andrew.cmu.edu			(Thomas Ho)
	tsparks@halcyon.com			(Thomas Sparks)
	vance@mtxinu.com			(Vance Vaughan)
	wfriend@guest.nwnet.net			(William Friend)
	WOLFE@wvnvaxa.wvnet.edu		(Nicholas E LaFlamme/Thomas Wolfe)

> Are there a lot of lurkers?

Yup.

> It would be great if we had representatives from each Freenet, some folks
> from PEN, folks from coconet, etc.  As well as people from bulletin boards
> that have a local focus & the larger nonprofit networks that create
> communities of interest (Peacenet, Handsnet, SeniorNet come to mind.

Some of you can tell far better than I whether or not we're reaching those
folks and then probably know more about who those people are and how to contact
them.  Please, those of you who can reach others involved in Community Access,
do so; the more folks in this area communicate, the more likely we all are to
succeed.

Just have folks send mail to

		Community-Access-Request@Xerox.Com

to get added to the list.

	Pavel

From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Wed Mar 17 13:19:24 1993
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	[nil "Wed" "17" "March" "1993" "07:01:00" "-0800" "chris" "chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us " nil "27" "Unix Software Donations from SCO" "^Date:" nil nil "3"])
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Date:	Wed, 17 Mar 1993 07:01:00 -0800
From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (chris)
To:	community-access@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Subject: Unix Software Donations from SCO

This is a note to people looking for a Unix OS and Dev Sys
to run their community access network on.

SCO (Santa Cruz Operation) has a donations program, by which folks
can get Unix OS and DS software. For folks who require TCP and X, that 
is also available.

You will need to send a written request as follows:

1. what software you require
2. what it is to be used for

And send it to:

Kathleen D. Verhey
Santa Cruz Operation
400 Encinal Street
Santa Cruz, CA
95060



-- 
		 "Tie base goes to the fool."
		      -Knuckle Buckalo

	          chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us

From atc.boeing.com!douglas Thu Mar 18 11:11:55 1993
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	[nil "Thu" "18" "March" "1993" "11:05:52" "-0800" "Douglas Schuler" "douglas@atc.boeing.com" nil "39" "Network Technologies for public service (fwd)" "^Date:" nil nil "3"])
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Date:	Thu, 18 Mar 1993 11:05:52 -0800
From:	Douglas Schuler <douglas@atc.boeing.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Network Technologies for public service (fwd)


Here is something else which may be of interest to the group.
 
-- Doug 
 
 
> From: Preston Hardison <pdh@u.washington.edu>
> To: Multiple recipients of list COMMUNITY-NETWORKS <community-networks@ce.washington.edu>
> Subject:    Network Technologies for public service (fwd)
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 11:39:54 EST
> From: Carla Shafer <cs13@POSTOFFICE.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU>
> To: Multiple recipients of list DEVEL-L <DEVEL-L%AUVM.BITNET@uwavm.u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Network Technologies for public service
>
> There is a hot new listserve which has just taken off in the last few days.
> The subject is community network development.  This is definitely a list
> worth subscribing to if you are involved in establishing network access, or
> in developing distance learning projects.  The list is called CommuNet (no
> joke!).  There has been an amazing process of people introducing themselves
> going on this week which, in itself, is quite enlightening.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Subscribe by sending e-mail to:
>
>       listserv@uvmvm.bitnet  OR
>       listserv@uvmvm.uvm.edu
>
> The body of the message contains:
>
> SUB communet [full name]
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> Preston Hardison pdh@u.washington.edu
>

From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Mon Mar 29 19:32:03 1993
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	[nil "Mon" "29" "March" "1993" "18:09:29" "-0800" "chris" "chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us " nil "58" "BA.ToasterNet/CommunityNet/MetroNet Conference (fwd)" "^Date:" nil nil "3"])
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Date:	Mon, 29 Mar 1993 18:09:29 -0800
From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (chris)
To:	community-access@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Subject: BA.ToasterNet/CommunityNet/MetroNet Conference (fwd)

Forwarded message:

Below is a message about an upcoming community networking meeting
being set up in the Bay Area. 


> From uucp Mon Mar 29 16:39:14 1993
> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 14:39:37 -0800
> Message-Id: <199303292239.AA05439@snyside.sunnyside.com>
> To: freenet.victoria.bc.ca!aa016, eff.org!blau (Andrew Blau),
>         ingres.com!bobs (Bob Sheppard), cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris (chris),
>         cup.portal.com!cleta, well.sf.ca.us!couey (Anna Couey),
>         well.sf.ca.us!coyote (Mitch Ratcliffe),
>         well.sf.ca.us!crunch (John Draper), netcom!dewayne (Dewayne Hendricks),
>         ccnext.ucsf.edu!dick (Dick Karpinski),
>         srv.pacbell.com!drlewi1 (Dave Lewis),
>         walnut.SFSU.EDU!eisman (Gerald S. Eisman),
>         well.sf.ca.us!estheise (Eric S Theise), VAX.SONOMA.EDU!FEINSTEI,
>         genmagic.com!fen, apple.com!gavini, sco.com!geoffg (Geoff Galitz),
>         cygnus.com!gnu, teracons.com!johan (Johan Strandberg),
>         sunnyside.com!judic (judi clark),
>         eng.sun.com!Marianne.Mueller (Marianne Mueller),
>         klinzhai.echo.com!matthew (matthew kaufman),
>         eff.org!mnemonic (Mike Godwin), igc.apc.org!mrobin (Michael Robin),
>         kumr.lns.com!pozar (Tim Pozar), apple.com!sac (Steve Cisler),
>         netcom!tenney (Glenn S. Tenney), fido.wps.com!tomj (Tom Jennings)
> From: netcomsv.netcom.com!snyside.sunnyside.com!judic (Judi Clark)
> Subject: BA.ToasterNet/CommunityNet/MetroNet Conference 
> 
> Thanks for expressing interest in being part of this meeting.
> We have set up a mailing list to serve the needs of setting up
> a bay area ToasterNet conference.
> 
> Send a note to:  listserv@cpsr.org    with the body:
> 
> subscribe BA-TOAST-CONF
> 
> 
> This would be a great place to talk about what kind of things
> you want to do at the meeting/conference. Specifically, is there
> anything that needs to be arranged, like speakers, video or teleconf
> facilities, etc? What do you want in the agenda, around the breaks
> and discussion times? Are there specific demos that require a table
> or AC? Do we need a phone line to demo anyone's systems?
> 
> What's the program?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
>   judi <judic@sunnyside.com>
> 
> 


-- 
		 "Tie base goes to the fool."
		      -Knuckle Buckalo

	          chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us

From igc.apc.org!commem!carl Mon Apr  5 22:57:35 1993
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	[nil "Mon" "5" "April" "1993" "22:55:18" "-0700" "carl%commem@igc.apc.org" "carl%commem@igc.apc.org" nil "13" "Critical Mass" "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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Date:	Mon, 5 Apr 1993 22:55:18 -0700
From:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Critical Mass

Pavel recently raised the question of whether we were reaching a critical
mass of the community networking community.  It has recently come to my
attention that there are several other mailing lists out there with a 
similar focus.  I'm currently trying to get more information on them, and
will post specifics as I learn them.  For now, I wanted to poll people on
the idea of cross-posting information between these mailing lists.  How
hard is it?  Under what circumstances is it useful?
Just to start things rolling, my opinion is that if a mailing list seems
close to ours in purpose, is willing, and has a managable amount of traffic,
we should try cross posting, and poll people about how it's working out
after a trial period.
-Carl


From igc.apc.org!commem!carl Mon Apr  5 23:24:28 1993
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Message-ID: <9304060622.AA24707@igc.apc.org>
Date:	Mon, 5 Apr 1993 23:22:22 -0700
From:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Description of list

In trying to get information on other similar mailing lists, I found I needed
a brief description of this one.  Here's what I tossed together.  Any
corrections, additions, or clarifications would be appreciated.
-Carl

------
Our list grew out of a workshop at the DIAC-92 conference hosted by CPSR.
was intended as a place where people actually running community networking
systems and people who studied or were concerned about such systems could
exchange ideas.  Our loose definition of community networking includes both
some sort of geographical focus and some attempt to involve non-traditional
computer users.  Our list includes representatives from at least two active
systems:
 - Berkeley's Community Memory, which is based around publicly-located
   terminal kiosks that anyone can use, and
 - Cruzio in Santa Cruz, a dial-in system that focuses on building
   connections between local resources.
In addition, there are representatives of a network being established by
CPSR's Washington, D.C. chapter.  The list also includes a number of
academics and social activists with an interest in the role of computer
communications in society.  Traffic is generally light, but interesting.
It consists of announcements of recent developments in community networking,
and discussions of issues such as user interface models, managing abusive
behavior online, and funding and governance options.


From netcom.com!amcgee Tue Apr  6 09:25:23 1993
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	[nil "Tue" "6" "April" "1993" "09:14:21" "-0700" "\"Arthur R. McGee\"" "amcgee@netcom.com" nil "63" "Response to Carl about other lists" "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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Message-ID: <Pine.3.05.9304060921.B29795-c101000@netcom2>
Date:	Tue, 6 Apr 1993 09:14:21 -0700
From:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Response to Carl about other lists
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1918914643-234138546-734113368:#29795"

--1918914643-234138546-734113368:#29795
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi Carl. Here is a list that I have compiled that contains mailing lists
that at least touch upon in some way the issues of community networking or
Free-Nets. The main "mirror" to this list is COMMUNET, although the
traffic is MUCH heavier, and is not recommended for the faint of heart. ;-)

Please let me know how I can in any way contribute to the discussion on
COMMUNITY-ACCESS. Also, I cross-posted your other two messages to
COMMUNET. Maybe it will help the people on both lists figure out a way to
better manage things. I know that here in Los Angeles, CA we setup our own
listerver for discussing communities in Los Angeles county, so that when
something needs to be discussed, we don't have to wade through other
peoples' traffic in other parts of the country.

Take care.

Art

--1918914643-234138546-734113368:#29795
Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name="communet.msg"
Content-ID: <Pine.3.05.9304060948.C29795@netcom2>
Content-Description: 

If you are even remotely interested in Civic, Local or Regional Computing
issues, organizations, activities, networks, libraries, schools, etc., or
the general "Free-Net" concept, then you need to be subscribed to at least
one of the following lists:

COMMUNET    | listserv@uvmvm.uvm.edu |Community and Civic Networks
COMMUNITY-A | community-access-request@parc.xerox.com |Community Access Issues
              (Note: The complete and full list name is COMMUNITY-ACCESS)
COSNDISC    | listserv@bitnic.educom.edu |Consortium for School Networking
CPSR        | listserv@gwuvm.gwu.edu |Computer Pros for Social Responsibility
LM_NET      | listserv@suvm.acs.syr.edu |School Library Media & Network Comm
PACS-L      | listserv@uhupvm1.uh.edu |Library & Public Access Computer Systems
PUBLIB      | listserv@nysernet.org |Public Libraries and the Internet
RURALAM     | listserv@ibm.cl.msu.edu |Rural America Cluster Evaluation
RURALDEV    | listserv@ksuvm.ksu.edu |Community/Rural Economic Development
THESEGROUPS | thesegroups-request@tic.com |Local Comm/Legal/Social Activism Grps

To subscribe, send a one line message that says:

SUB LISTNAME FIRSTNAME LASTNAME

to the appropriate listserver.

Please let me know if you have any others that you would suggest. Peace.


Art "Rambo" McGee


Internet: [72377.1351@compuserve.com]
          [amcgee@netcom.com]
BDPA BAC: [1-707-552-3314] to [Arthur McGee] or [Sysop]
Data Bits Online: [1-213-295-6094] to [Arthur McGee]
Compuserve: [72377,1351]
Voice: [1-213-735-4879]

--1918914643-234138546-734113368:#29795--


From parc.xerox.com!pavel Tue Apr  6 11:12:43 1993
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Date:	Tue, 6 Apr 1993 11:09:46 -0700
From:	Pavel Curtis <Pavel@parc.xerox.com>
To:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Critical Mass

> Just to start things rolling, my opinion is that if a mailing list seems
> close to ours in purpose, is willing, and has a managable amount of traffic,
> we should try cross posting, and poll people about how it's working out
> after a trial period.

The `manageable amount of traffic' issue is important to me.  I tried
subscribing to COMMUNET for a while and got 65 messages in the first 20 hours,
after which I quit.  It wasn't that the content wasn't good, it was fine; it's
just too big a firehose for me to drink from part-time.

	Pavel

From parc.xerox.com!pavel Tue Apr  6 11:13:13 1993
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Date:	Tue, 6 Apr 1993 11:10:18 -0700
From:	Pavel Curtis <Pavel@parc.xerox.com>
To:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Description of list

I like Carl's proposed description of this list.

	Pavel

From csli.stanford.edu!pine Tue Apr  6 14:08:46 1993
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	[nil "Tue" "6" "April" "1993" "14:06:23" "-0700" "Evelyn Pine" "pine@csli.stanford.edu" "<9304062106.AA21242@CSLI.Stanford.EDU>" "6" "critical mass" "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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Date:	Tue, 6 Apr 1993 14:06:23 -0700
From:	Evelyn Pine <pine@csli.stanford.edu>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: critical mass


What Pavel said.  I would also like to focus our list on
how people USE these systems -- not that technical specs,
theory, etc. aren't important.  They are -- but hopefully,
this can be a place where we talk about how people 
actually use the technology. 

From parc.xerox.com!pavel Tue Apr  6 14:42:30 1993
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Date:	Tue, 6 Apr 1993 14:36:56 -0700
From:	Pavel Curtis <Pavel@parc.xerox.com>
To:	pine@csli.stanford.edu
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: critical mass

What Evelyn said.  :-)

	Pavel

From apple.com!sac Wed Apr  7 04:22:39 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Wed" "7" "April" "1993" "04:19:39" "-0700" "Steve Cisler" "sac@apple.com" nil "17" "Two lists" "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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Message-ID: <9304071119.AA01386@apple.com>
Date:	Wed, 7 Apr 1993 04:19:39 -0700
From:	Steve Cisler <sac@apple.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Two lists

I participate in a listserv (mailing list) called COMMUNET
that has about 500 subscribers whose interests are broad, geographically-
limited networks, as opposed to affinity group networks (nematode
researchers, librarians, deadheads).

Someone posted a description of the xerox.com list, and I'd just
like to invite any of you who are on both lists to cross post
any relevant traffic.  Communet has a fairly high noise level,
but there is also a lot of thoughtful postings and a great deal
of energy.  

I do not have time to subscribe to another list, but if anyone
wants more information, please email me at
sac@apple.com

Steve Cisler
Apple Library

From igc.apc.org!commem!carl Thu Apr  8 09:32:03 1993
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	[nil "Thu" "8" "April" "1993" "09:29:15" "-0700" "carl%commem@igc.apc.org" "carl%commem@igc.apc.org" "<9304081629.AA09900@igc.apc.org>" "45" "new public network" "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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Date:	Thu, 8 Apr 1993 09:29:15 -0700
From:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: new public network

This is about a month late, but I got this announcement and have been 
meaning to post it.
-Carl
-------
 
Victoria Free-Net Public Terminal
 
At 1:00 pm on March 8th, the Greater Victoria Public Library, in
conjunction with the Victoria Free-Net Association, will officially
open British Columbia's first free public access to the world of 
international computer networks.  This public terminal is directly
connected to the Victoria Free-Net.  Free-Net offers free access
to a range of community-based and international information services,
on-line conferences and electronic mail.
 
Until now, use of the Free-Net has been limited to people with home,
office or school computers equipped with modems.  Through the 
library's terminal Free-Net is now accessible to everyone.
 
The public is invited to come to the Central Library and explore
the world of Free-Nets.
 
Futher information can be obtained from:
Jim Scott, Head of Central Library/Associate Chief Librarian, 382-7241
Gary Shearman, Chairman, Victoria Free-Net Association, 385-4302
 
---------
 
The Victoria Free-Net welcomes everyone.  Dial in at (604)595-2300, 
with N81 and VT100 emulation, telnet to freenet.victoria.bc.ca or
drop in to the Central Library at 735 Broughton Street Victoria.
Login as Guest.  Request your free account inside the "Administration
Building" menu pick.  Free, but remember, donations are accepted.
 
If you *still* want more information, I'd be happy to send you my
tirade "Three good reasons to build and support Free-Nets" or
my even longer (gasp!) "The decline, fall and rise of Democracy".
 
Peter Gordon (pgordon@freenet.victoria.bc.ca)
Vice-chairman of the Victoria Free-Net Association, eh?
 
 
 
 


From vm.uoguelph.ca!UGG00230 Sat Apr 10 08:34:37 1993
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	[nil "Sat" "10" "April" "1993" "09:32:18" "-0700" "Bill Apgar" "UGG00230@vm.uoguelph.ca" nil "104" "Free-Nets and Canadian content" "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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Message-ID: <93Apr10.083216pdt.11865@alpha.xerox.com>
Date:	Sat, 10 Apr 1993 09:32:18 -0700
From:	Bill Apgar <UGG00230@vm.uoguelph.ca>
To:	community-access <community-access@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: Free-Nets and Canadian content


To:      <    various   >
From:    Bill Apgar <UGG00230@vm.uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Canadian & non-US Free-Nets as affiliates of NPTN

To what extent do Canadian and other non-US located Free-Nets have
to "buy-in" to the NPTN National Public Telecomputing Network (NPTN)
package if they are designated as "affiliate" Free-Nets (with NPTN
recognition)?

I recently received "THE BLUEBOOK: AN INTRODUCTION TO THE NATIONAL PUBLIC
TELECOMPUTING NETWORK" from NPTN.

According to this booklet, "affiliate" Free-Nets have access to
a number of "information features" (see chapter 4 in the Bluebook).
Two of these features come from the American Cybercasting Corporation -
1) "electronic news services", and 2) "electronic journals and magazines".

Who is the American Cybercasting Corporation?  How are they associated
with NPTN?  Are they non-profit?  What are their objectives and
philosophy?

Offerings under electronic journals and magazines include
conservative (US) offerings like The National Review, Imprimis,
and The New Republic.  There appear to be no offerings representing
the liberal/radical (US) press. The description on page IV-2 of the
Bluebook, in describing ACC's electronic journals and magazines, says:

     THE NATIONAL REVIEW - The Nation's "Best Conservative Magazine",
     The National Review provides the balancing perspective to a
     more liberal media.  If telecomputing is about understanding
     the diversity and complexity of issues, the National Review
     provides the necessary balanace of perspectives.

I do not mean to indicate the listings reflect only a conservative (US)
point of view.  I am not familiar with the political orientation of
the journals and magazines (US) listed.  Perhaps other subscribers will
be able to judge the balance and can let me know.  The offerings are
(as of the Bluebook - February 1993):

	FORBES - THE CALIFORNIA MANAGEMENT REVIEW - THE NATIONAL REVIEW -
   FOREIGN POLICY - INSIGHT - IMPRIMIS - The New Republic - Highlights
   for Children.

The last two are described as new additions at press time (Feb. '93).

The electronic books and documents include a sampling of GAO (US)
reports, a collection of US-focussed full-text documents known as the
"Freedom Shrine," and among the copyright-free books, the Bible,
the Koran, and three books from the Mormon church.


Is it fair to presume that NPTN appears to be most reflective of US
interests and certain US political, moral and social values?  Because
it appears to be the desire of NPTN to achieve replication of Free-Nets
beyond its borders (to date Canada, and New Zealand, with organizing
committees in Germany), what can Free-Nets in non-US locations do to
insure that their own Free-Nets reflect their cultures, values and
objectives?  And more importantly, if a global model is to emerge for
Free-Nets, to what extent will it be international, inter-cultural and
politically balanced?

There are at least three Free-Nets in Canada (National Capital, Victoria,
CIAO) functioning and I have heard speculation that more are in the
works -- even in a possibility of one in my hometown.  I am directing
this message to the contact persons for the Canadian affiliates and
inviting them to post their comments to this message.  I am sure that
there is much detail of which I am unaware, and I am confident that
replies will clarify much which I do not understand.

My question to the Canadian Free-Nets is whether they are confident that
services other than e-mail exchanges on their systems will be reflective
of Canadian culture and Canadian content, as well as the wealth of
materials available from NPTN.

I also want to publically thank NPTN for a prompt reply for my request
for information on Free-Nets and the NPTN.  The materials sent to me
were very helpful.

Thank you.

This message sent to:

     Tom Grundner      <tmg@nptn.org> President, NPTN
     Linda Delzeit     <aa002@nptn.org>, NPTN Director of Education
                       <ldelzei@eis.calstate.edu>
     David Sutherland  <aa001@freenet.carleton.ca> National Capital Free-Net
                        Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
     Gareth Shearman   <shearman@cue.bc.ca> Victoria Free-Net
                           Victoria, British Columbia, CANADA
     Ken McClean       <kmcclean@first.etc.bc.ca> CIAO!
                           Trail, British Columbia, CANADA
     COMMUNET          <communet@uvmvm.uvm.edu>
                           Community and Civic Networks
     COMMUNITY-ACCESS  <community-access@parc.xerox.com>
                           Community Access Issues
     COSNDISC          <cosndisc@bitnic.educom.edu>
                           Consortium for School Networking
     RURALAM           <ruralam@ibm.cl.msu.edu>
                           Rural America Cluster Evaluation
     RURALDEV          <ruraldev@ksuvm.ksu.edu>
                           Community/Rural Economic Development
     THESEGROUPS       <thesegroups@tic.com>
                           Local Comm/Legal/Social Activism

From vm.uoguelph.ca!UGG00230 Sat Apr 10 11:07:39 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Sat" "10" "April" "1993" "12:05:30" "-0700" "Bill Apgar" "UGG00230@vm.uoguelph.ca" nil "159" "response from Tom Grundner of NPTN to my query re Free-Nets ..." "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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Message-ID: <93Apr10.110542pdt.11877@alpha.xerox.com>
Date:	Sat, 10 Apr 1993 12:05:30 -0700
From:	Bill Apgar <UGG00230@vm.uoguelph.ca>
To:	community-access <community-access@parc.xerox.com>
Subject: response from Tom Grundner of NPTN to my query re Free-Nets ...


Mr. Grundner sent me the following reply to my query, which I also
posted to this LIST for your information and discussion.  I wish to
thank him for a prompt answer.  His response sheds light on the issue
of Free-Nets for me ... and I hope you will find his comments
enlightening as well.
===================================================================
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1993 12:16:56 -0500
To: Bill Apgar <UGG00230@vm.uoguelph.ca>
From: tmg@nptn.org (Tom Grundner)
Subject: Re: Free-Nets and Canadian content
Cc: ldelzei@eis.calstate.edu, aa001@freenet.carleton.ca, shearman@cue.bc.ca,
        kmcclean@first.etc.bc.ca

>
>To what extent do Canadian and other non-US located Free-Nets have
>to "buy-in" to the NPTN National Public Telecomputing Network (NPTN)
>package if they are designated as "affiliate" Free-Nets (with NPTN
>recognition)?
>
   They are specifically expected to do the reverse--to buy-OUT of
NPTN once they get some systems up and stablized.

   Wellington, New Zealand, for example, is an NPTN member ON THE
CONDITION that they make a "good faith effort" to organize other
cities in New Zealand and form a "New Zealand Public Telecomputing
Network" (or whatever they choose to call it).

   Since first contact I have been pitching the Canadian systems
to form a Canadian Public Telecomputing Network (or whatever),
and it appears that this is indeed going to happen.  But I'll
let them bring you up to date on that.

   I met with the leadership of the two German committees in October
about forming a Bavarian Public Telecomputing Network which they
agreed to do as soon as we can get their systems up and stable. (There
are some political reasons why it is the "Bavarian" and not the
German network that are too complex to go into here.)

   The Finns have ALREADY formed their own national network.

   And we are working with a group in Sydney, Australia under
the same terms as Wellington--on the condition that the Sydney
Free-Net become the flagship system for the development of
an Australian Public Telecomputing Network.

   The reason we are doing it this way is as you pointed out... we
can not possibly service all those nations and cultures.  There are
some things we CAN do in terms of technical assistance, etc., and
there are some features that run very nicely across political
boundaries (our "Academy One" K-12 school program has shown that).

   But the Canadians need to develop a range of uniquely CANADIAN
cybercasting services.  Germans, German services; Finns, Finnish
services, etc.  These could not POSSIBLY be developed in the U.S.

   (And if you want to know the next step... once these national
networks are established I plan to work for cross-fertilization,
so that each network is offering its affiliates at least a few
items from each of the other national networks.)


>
>According to this booklet, "affiliate" Free-Nets have access to
>a number of "information features" (see chapter 4 in the Bluebook).
>Two of these features come from the American Cybercasting Corporation -
>1) "electronic news services", and 2) "electronic journals and magazines".
>
>Who is the American Cybercasting Corporation?  How are they associated
>with NPTN?  Are they non-profit?  What are their objectives and
>philosophy?
>
   The American Cybercasting Corporation (ACC) is a Cleveland area
company which specializes in delivering information services to
colleges and universities to run on their internal campus networks.
They are a for-profit company and their objectives are the same as
every other young entrepreneurial for-profit computer company--to
make a ton of money and retire before anyone reaches 35 so they
won't be too old to enjoy it.  (The amazing thing is that they
might actually do it.)

   We use ACC for three reasons:

   1) As most people know I founded the company in 1991, and
sold it within a few months.  I still own a small percentage of
the company, however, which causes #2 to happen.

   2) NPTN community computer systems get a HUGE discount on
anything within the ACC product line.  Frankly, community
computers are a pain in the butt for ACC--that's not where they
make their money--but it keeps the stockholders meetings
friendly. :>

   3) Obtaining well-recognized publications to run on community
computer systems is a non-trivial task.  I know; NPTN tried for
years.  The problem is that most of the major publications have
been locked up by the major information corporations like Mead,
and Dialogue, and CompuServe.  When you approach them about running
their publications on a relative handful of community computers, they
turn you down for fear of frosting-off the biggies.  In fact,
for this reason, we don't even have access to the complete ACC line.


>Offerings under electronic journals and magazines include
>conservative (US) offerings like The National Review, Imprimis,
>and The New Republic.  There appear to be no offerings representing
>the liberal/radical (US) press.
>
   What we can offer reflects the ACC product line; which, in turn,
reflects what they figure they can sell to colleges and universities,
AND who they can get contracts with.  Simple as that.  If anyone has
an alternative for landing major publications, I'd love to hear
them.  But, for right now, ACC is the only game in (or out of) town.
(Just remember... the prices have to be reasonable, they have to
be able to electronically deliver them to us, and we are looking
for major publications.  (The affiliates can get all the homebrew
electronic newsletters they want on their own.)



>This message sent to:
>
>     Tom Grundner      <tmg@nptn.org> President, NPTN
>     Linda Delzeit     <aa002@nptn.org>, NPTN Director of Education
>                       <ldelzei@eis.calstate.edu>
>     David Sutherland  <aa001@freenet.carleton.ca> National Capital Free-Net
>                        Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
>     Gareth Shearman   <shearman@cue.bc.ca> Victoria Free-Net
>                           Victoria, British Columbia, CANADA
>     Ken McClean       <kmcclean@first.etc.bc.ca> CIAO!
>                           Trail, British Columbia, CANADA
>     COMMUNET          <communet@uvmvm.uvm.edu>
>                           Community and Civic Networks
>     COMMUNITY-ACCESS  <community-access@parc.xerox.com>
>                           Community Access Issues
>     COSNDISC          <cosndisc@bitnic.educom.edu>
>                           Consortium for School Networking
>     RURALAM           <ruralam@ibm.cl.msu.edu>
>                           Rural America Cluster Evaluation
>     RURALDEV          <ruraldev@ksuvm.ksu.edu>
>                           Community/Rural Economic Development
>     THESEGROUPS       <thesegroups@tic.com>
>                           Local Comm/Legal/Social Activism
>

   And presumably you will forward a copy of my reply to the same
list???

   Just out of curiosity... why did you decide to forward your
original message to six listservs instead of just writing me
directly for the information?




---
Tom Grundner
President, National Public Telecomputing Network
e.Mail: tmg@nptn.org  Voice: 216-247-5800  FAX: 216-247-3328

From grace.rt.cs.boeing.com!douglas Thu Apr 15 08:54:45 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Thu" "15" "April" "1993" "08:50:12" "-0700" "Doug Schuler" "douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com " nil "21" "Mirroring?  Echoing?" "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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Message-ID: <9304151550.AA08578@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com>
Date:	Thu, 15 Apr 1993 08:50:12 -0700
From:	douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com (Doug Schuler)
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Mirroring?  Echoing?


I hope I'm not too late to prevent a deluge...

As I'm not sure what echoing or mirroring means I'm not sure that this
message has much meaning.   What I'm afraid of is that the ALL communet
postings might be also posted to THIS list.  If that happens I'd have
to stop reading this list because the communet stuff is just too much
and too many.   I don't think we want to do it!

What we could do (if others agreed) would be to echo/mirror (whatever)
everything from here onto the other list.  Another thing we can (and
should) be doing is if communet readers find good stuff on communet they
should post it here.  Finally we should let the communet list people
know of our existance.

I feel that this list deserves an existance independent 
of communet largely because of its small-scale and the content.
Is this a consensus statement?

-- Doug


From hpljaj.hpl.hp.com!jjohnson Thu Apr 15 09:30:48 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Thu" "15" "April" "1993" "09:27:56" "-0700" "Jeff Johnson" "jjohnson@hpljaj.hpl.hp.com" nil "4" "Re: Mirroring? Echoing?" "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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In-Reply-to: "Your message of \"Thu, 15 Apr 93 08:50:12 PDT.\"
             <9304151550.AA08578@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com>usiness"
Message-ID: <9304151627.AA18558@hpljaj.hpl.hp.com>
Date:	Thu, 15 Apr 1993 09:27:56 -0700
From:	Jeff Johnson <jjohnson@hpljaj.hpl.hp.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Mirroring? Echoing?


I agree.  Less is more.

JJ

From vtvm1.cc.vt.edu!LAUGHON Sun Apr 18 20:39:13 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Sun" "18" "April" "1993" "20:35:59" "-0700" "Sally Laughon" "LAUGHON@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu" nil "182" "Moderatory Survey" "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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Message-ID: <93Apr18.203640pdt.11974@alpha.xerox.com>
Date:	Sun, 18 Apr 1993 20:35:59 -0700
From:	Sally Laughon <LAUGHON@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu>
To:	aa001@freenet.carleton.ca, shearman@cue.bc.ca,
	kmcclean@first.etc.bc.ca, communet@uvmvm.uvm.edu,
	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Moderatory Survey

*********************Please repost freely*****************************

Greetings,
I am interested in the role of the moderator of online projects or of
a network.  Below is a short, 14 question survey to help gather
accurate data.  Please take a few moments to complete this form and send
it to me, preferably by e-mail.  Please do not reply to this list since
I may not be a member.

Sally Laughon
laughon@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu       laughon@vtvm1

Computer Department Chair
Northcross School
4254 Colonial Ave, SW
Roanoke, VA 24018

Please indicate what type of network you moderate or manage.  Please
complete one survey for each unique project or network you moderate.


_____ BBS or distributed network (for example: FrEdMail, Fidonet,
          Breadnet, K-12net, and others)

_____ State or regional (VaPen, FIRN, TENET, NYCEnet, SENDIT, Merit
          and others)

_____ Project run on an Internet/Bitnet listserv (Kidproj, Kids,
          Kidsnet, and others)

_____ Project run on an educational commercial network (National
          Geographic, AT&T Learning Network, AGE)

_____ Commercial (Prodigy, AOL, Delphi, Applelink, Genie,
          IRIS, Dialog Information services, Compuserve)

_____ Other (Please indicate how it differs from the above.)
          ____________________________________________________________
          ____________________________________________________________
          ____________________________________________________________

What is the name of your network? ____________________________________
Who is the the network contact?   Name:_______________________________
                                E-mail:_______________________________

For the following questions, please mark all answers that apply to
your position.  If none of the choices apply, please write your own
answer or leave the question blank.

1.  How are moderators chosen? Mark all that apply.
    _____a. by applying for the position
    _____b. from a group of known active participants
    _____c. the position is the result of a class
              Is this a voluntary class assignment? _____
              Is this a required class assignment?  _____
    _____d. through research about the network
    _____e. through research about network projects
    _____f. other (please explain)_______________________________________
            _____________________________________________________________


2.  How is your time allocated for your work as a moderator?  Mark all
    that apply.
    _____a. work for the length of one project
    _____b. work for many projects in one forum
    _____c. share duties with other members of a project, each
            taking a turn
    _____d. other (please explain)_______________________________________
            _____________________________________________________________


3.  What are the rewards for a your work?  Mark all that apply.
     _____a. monetary payment
     _____b. additional online time
     _____c. free membership in a project
     _____d. released from other job related duties
     _____e. recognition for work in print
     _____f. recognition for work posted online
     _____g. other (please explain) _____________________________________
             ____________________________________________________________


4.  Are you responsible for technical support for the members?  Mark
    all that apply.
    _____a.  provides assistance with project interface on the host
             computer
    _____b.  provides assistance with communication software on the
             user's personal station
    _____c.  provides assistance with hardware configurations
    _____d.  channels questions to the proper 'authority'
    _____e.  other (please explain) _____________________________________
             ____________________________________________________________


5.  Are you responsible for online training?  Mark all that apply.
    _____a.  online training only for new members of the project
    _____b.  online training for any individual or group
             Is this accomplished by conferencing? _____
             Other ways of training?____ (Please explain)
             ___________________________________________________________
             ___________________________________________________________
    _____c.  provides training for project interface on the host
             computer
    _____d.  provides online training for local communication software


6.  Are you responsible for offline training?  Mark all that apply.
    _____a.  offline training sessions only for new members of the
             project
    _____b.  offline training for any individual or group
             (Please explain)___________________________________________
             ___________________________________________________________
    _____c.  provides offline training for project interface on the
             host computer
    _____d.  provides offline training for local communication software
    _____e.  writes documentation for the project


7.  Do you actively facilitate and encourage project members?  Mark all
    that apply.
    _____a.  makes phone calls
    _____b.  sends e-mail
    _____c.  sets deadlines and reminds participants of the deadlines
    _____d.  facilitates discussion online
    _____e.  coordinates and disseminates participant data
    _____f.  other (Please explain) _____________________________________
             ____________________________________________________________


8.  Do you contribute to the curriculum?  Mark all that apply.
    _____a.  designs and writes the objectives
    _____b.  designs and writes the activities
    _____c.  other (please explain) _____________________________________
             ____________________________________________________________


9.  Are you responsible for evaluating the effectiveness of the project?
    Mark all that apply.
    _____a.  writes an evaluation with suggestions for improvement
    _____b.  designs a questionnaire for participants to complete
    _____c.  requests suggestions from participants
    _____d.  other (please  explain)_____________________________________
             ____________________________________________________________


10. Is your work evaluated?
    -----a.  No
    _____b.  Yes.  If YES, please answer 10 below.

11. How are you evaluated?  Mark all that apply.
    _____a.  survey participants
    _____b.  standard evaluation form completed by all participants
    _____c.  written evaluation by the project manager
    _____d.  written evaluation by the participants
    _____e.  other (please explain) _____________________________________
             ____________________________________________________________


12.  Approximately how many hours a week do you spend online, including
moderating this project? _____

13.  Approximately how many hours a week do you spend moderating this
     project or network? ______

14.  Please list other networks you use:




Your name:
Your position:
E-mail address:

Thank you!

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Sally Laughon           BITNET: laughon@vtvm1                     |
| Computer Department   Internet: laughon@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu           |
| Northcross School                                                 |
| 4254 Colonial Ave, SW                                             |
| Roanoke, VA 24018 USA    Voice: 703 989-6641 FAX: 703 989-7299    |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Sat Apr 24 13:13:00 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Sat" "24" "April" "1993" "12:48:18" "-0700" "chris" "chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us " nil "87" "Practical Apps, Email Addresses, and VR Relationships" "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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Date:	Sat, 24 Apr 1993 12:48:18 -0700
From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (chris)
To:	community-access@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Subject: Practical Apps, Email Addresses, and VR Relationships


Howdy,

Greetings from Santa Cruz.
A couple of quick notes:
Wayne Gregori from sfnet is emailable finally, I asked him to send some
mail to the list to say hi.

There is a bay area meeting of community access folks set for May 15.
Send email to judic@sunnyside.com for more info. This is going to be
an all day event, it would be great if Carl and Wayne could make it
at least as representatives of existing systems. 

On Evelyn's subject of how are people using these things:

---------------------- concrete thing #1 --------------------------------

In SC County, about 50 large employers have formed a Transportation
Management Association. The goal is to increase the number of people
per vehicle from something like 1.2 to 1.35, i.e. lower the number
of cars on the road, hence, the number of parking spaces required 
by each of the TMA members, $$$, etc.

They have received a $15,000 grant from the county transportation
agency to set up a BBS for the purpose of facilitating policy and
info discussions amongst TMA members and info distribution out to
the public.

Through a variety of bizarre twists of fate, Cruzio has become involved,
and we're consulting on the BBS setup and getting it on the county
WAN. The implementation will look something like:

1. Unix on a 386 running the Unix flavor of Waffle.
2. uucp connection to our county hub, so the TMA BBS can become a member of
   the scruz network and participate in email and USENET news
3. possible fax gateway

The BBS will provide a dial in access for both non networked TMA
members and the general public. 

TMA member accounts would provide email and news access and all 
public access services.

Public access services would include:
	- online forms for rideshare matching (which are automatically
	  faxed to the rideshare agency)
	- transportation resources database
	  (local park and ride locations, van pool info, etc etc)
	- bus schedule database
	- minutes of all TMA meetings
	- bus route map GIFs for downloading
	- other transportation related materials

In addition, a periodic Transportation and TMA FAQ 
(frequently asked questions) would be posted to the local newsgroups,
along with postings about events (like Bike To Work Day) or other
information.

------------------- concrete thing #2 --------------------------------------

Through another series of bizarre happenstances we are also working on
a project to bring the local newspaper, the Santa Cruz Sentinel, on
the county network.

We are working on basically setting them up much like the TMA. They'll
be running a Waffle BBS under DOS, connecting via uucp to the scruz
network hub.

The Sentinel BBS will not initially provide dial in access. We'll use
Waffle as a "walk up" BBS for members of the Sentinel staff to read or
send mail and news out to the county network. 

Folks will be able to email letters to the editor and certain members
of the Sentinel editorial staff will publish their email addresses so
the public can stay in touch. Sentinel staff will also use local newsgroups 
for broadcasting articles like "I'm working on blah blah and am wondering if
there is anyone out there who can point me to such and such."

This will eventually evolve to certain portions of the newspaper being 
published online, classified databases, etc. There are mucho possibilities,
especially as we upgrade the county network to IP links through our
PPP hub.

(note: The San Jose Mercury News is published on Americal Online...)

---------------------- end of concrete things ---------------------------


From sfnet.com!wayne.gregori Sun Apr 25 08:41:52 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Sat" "24" "April" "1993" "12:35:19" "-0700" "wayne.gregori@sfnet.com" "wayne.gregori@sfnet.com" nil "7" "HI THERE!" "^Date:" nil nil "4"])
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Message-ID: <9304241935.A2170wk@sfnet.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 Apr 1993 12:35:19 -0700
From:	wayne.gregori@sfnet.com
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: HI THERE!


hi there, I run a community access system in San Francisco and would very much
like to particpate in your community access discussions.  We have a large
installed base of community access users and a very exciting system.  Please
include me on any mailing lists.  thanks much!

Wayne

From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!ccn Sat May  1 16:21:29 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Sat" "1" "May" "1993" "13:36:19" "-0700" "Chris Neklason" "ccn@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us " nil "122" "SF Area Meeting Announcement (fwd)" "^Date:" nil nil "5"])
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Date:	Sat, 1 May 1993 13:36:19 -0700
From:	ccn@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (Chris Neklason)
To:	community-access@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Subject: SF Area Meeting Announcement (fwd)

Forwarded message:
>From uucp Sat May  1 12:41:39 1993
Errors-To: netcomsv.netcom.com!sunnyside.com!toaster-owner
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 23:44:33 -0700
Message-Id: <199305010644.AA17675@snyside.sunnyside.com>
Errors-To: netcomsv.netcom.com!sunnyside.com!toaster-owner
Reply-To: netcomsv.netcom.com!snyside.sunnyside.com!judic
Originator: ba-toast-conf@cpsr.org
Sender: netcomsv.netcom.com!cpsr.org!ba-toast-conf
Precedence: bulk
From: netcomsv.netcom.com!snyside.sunnyside.com!judic (Judi Clark)
To: Multiple recipients of list <cpsr.org!ba-toast-conf>
Subject: SF Area Meeting Announcement
X-Listserver-Version: 6.0 -- UNIX ListServer by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Bay Area ToasterNet Conference Planning

          -=-=- Please Forward and Post Freely -=-=-


For Immediate Release:                          1 May 1993


                       Bay Toaster 1
        A Meeting for All Serious ToasterNetworkers,
          CommunityNetworkers and MetroNetworkers
           in the Greater San Francisco Bay Area

                  Saturday, May 15, 1993
                    9:30 am to 6:00 pm

                   SFSU Downtown Center
                    425 Market Street
                 San Francisco, California


Access to online communication is growing at a rapid pace.
Feeding the acceleration are many people who see the value
of this new type of communication and are making efforts to 
share it with their communities. Systems for connecting to 
the online network range in complexity, methods, and hardware.

This meeting will help those working to establish a community-
based network by sharing expertise with others that would like
to help and with those who have relevant experiences that they
would like to share. Models for community networks include
FreeNet systems, local BBS systems, shared net access, and 
several others.

The agenda for this event is as follows:

MORNING: PLAYERS IN THE FIELD

9:30-10 am    Registration check-in

10-11:30 noon  What have we done, what have we learned so far?
Brief introduction to local groups, including:
                The Little Garden (Tom Jennings)
                SFSUnet (Gerald S. Eisman)
                Cruzio (ccn)
                Green Party of Santa Cruz (Geoff Galitz)
              
11:30-12:30 pm  Funding mechanisms and other practical matters
Discussion of what's been tried, what works, what doesn't and why

12:30-1:30    Lunch-brown bag, bring your own

AFTERNOON: DIRECTIONS TO THE FUTURE

1:30-2 pm     Methods & Strategies in working with IP providers
Identification and discussion of major providers in SF bay area

2-2:30 pm     Brainstorming: List of problems to address
Discussion of technical and social aspects of setting up networks

2:30-3 pm     Prioritizing list of problems for discussion

3-3:45 pm     Possible approaches to problems listed above
Break-out groups to discuss identified areas of interest

3:45-4 pm     Break

4-4:30 pm     Summary of Breakouts

4:30-6 pm     Tools needed for addressing the community
Exploration of technical information, types of volunteers and
assistance needed to further this work and make it more effective

This event is free and open to all who pre-register.

REGISTRATION FORM:

Group/Network Name:
Location (City/State):

Contact Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Post code:
Country:
Phone:
Email:

Abstract (if Network):

IP Service Provider: 


Send completed registration form by 10pm on May 14 1993,to:
  <judic@sunnyside.com>  or via fax to: 415.322.6481

For more information, contact:
Judi Clark, Bay Toaster 1 Organizer
internet: judic@sunnyside.com
phone: 415.322.5411
fax: 415.322.6481


          -=-=- Please Forward and Post Freely -=-=-


-- 

From grace.rt.cs.boeing.com!douglas Mon May  3 07:04:16 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Mon" "3" "May" "1993" "07:00:10" "-0700" "Doug Schuler" "douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com " nil "8" "ToasterNetworks" "^Date:" nil nil "5"])
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Date:	Mon, 3 May 1993 07:00:10 -0700
From:	douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com (Doug Schuler)
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: ToasterNetworks



Can somebody tell what a ToasterNetwork is?

Thanks!!

-- Doug


From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Sun Jun  6 21:59:00 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Sun" "6" "June" "1993" "21:54:13" "-0700" "chris" "chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us " nil "14" "May 31 Microtimes and MUDding" "^Date:" nil nil "6"])
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Date:	Sun, 6 Jun 1993 21:54:13 -0700
From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (chris)
To:	community-access@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Subject: May 31 Microtimes and MUDding

This is an FYI that the latest issue of Microtimes (#109) has
a very interesting interview with Brenda Laurel (who seems to 
be the current rage in the wirehead 'zines...)

She makes some very interesting comments about MUDs and mentions
AstroMOO in passing.

In general, a lot of food for thought for community networkers in 
that piece.

ccn
-- 

	          chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us

From uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!urrostko Tue Jun 22 18:03:16 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Tue" "22" "June" "1993" "17:55:30" "-0700" "Robert Rostkowski" "urrostko@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu" nil "100" "Updated list of systems you can try out (fwd)" "^Date:" nil nil "6"])
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Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.9306221930.A3459-d100000@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>
Date:	Tue, 22 Jun 1993 17:55:30 -0700
From:	Robert Rostkowski <urrostko@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Updated list of systems you can try out (fwd)
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Here's some information on a listing that may interest members of
community-access. 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 16:20:25 +0501
From: Judy Hallman <hallman@GIBBS.OIT.UNC.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list COMMUNET <COMMUNET@UVMVM.BITNET>
Subject: Updated list of systems you can try out

To CWIS-L list, with copies to communet and freenet-admin:

I've updated the list of CWISs you can try out. I've included below the
first part of the file, describing how to ftp it, how you can explore
some of the services in the list, and the changes made in this revision.
If you can't ftp or prefer a copy by e-mail, just let me know and I'll
mail it to you. (The file is about 1,100 lines long.)

Note: I tightened up a lot of the entries to make the list a little
shorter, but it didn't come out much shorter. If you have suggestions for
a better, more readable format, please let me know.

Also, remember that someone OKs the entries in this list. There are lots
more services available. If you know of any you'd like to see included in
future editions, please give me the e-mail address of a contact person and
I'll see if we can include their service.

Judy Hallman, UNC-Chapel Hill

=============================================================
Campus-Wide Information Systems (CWIS)
=============================================================
The following is information from the listserver
CWIS-L@WUVMD.BITNET, prepared by Judy Hallman (Judy_Hallman@unc.edu),
UNC-Chapel Hill, June 22, 1993.

You can pick up this list by anonymous ftp to sunsite.unc.edu;
cd pub/docs/about-the-net/cwis, get cwis-l (that's the letter l).


Using UNC's laUNChpad system or LIBS on the UNC-CH VAX

The laUNChpad System, offered by UNC-CH, can connect you to many of the
information systems in this list. You may access laUNChpad through telnet,
using launchpad.unc.edu as the connection. For "username" type 'launch'.
When you get laUNChpad's menu, select item 3, "On-line Information Systems
(LIBTEL)."

Or you can use similar software on the UNC-CH DEC VAX computer's VMS
service. Connect to  uncvx1.oit.unc.edu; for "username" type LIBTEL. When
you get the LIBS menu, select item  3 "Campus-wide Information Systems."

The two systems are quite similar, presenting essentially the
same information using different menus. LaUNCHpad automates more of the
connection steps.


Gophers

Many CWISs are done in Gopher software (from the University of Minnesota).
Once you connect to one gopher, you usually have access to all the others
that are registered. If you do not have local access to a gopher, here are
just two of many you can telnet to (emulate a vt100):

consultant.micro.umn.edu -- home of the gopher!
login as gopher

gopher.unc.edu -- the UNC SunSITE gopher
login as gopher


-------------------------------------------------------------
Summary of changes in this version:
-------------------------------------------------------------

Changed:
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill INFO
University of Vermont, gopher
United Kingdom, University of Bradford - "BradInfo"
I tightened up the text of many entries, particularly of the
  "Contains" sections, to shorten the file.

Added:
Michigan State University
Germany, University of the University of the Saarland at Saarbruecken
United Kingdom, Edinburgh University
Community-Wide Information Systems:
  Big Sky Telegraph - Dillon, Montana
  Buffalo Free-Net - Buffalo, New York
  California Online Resources for Education (CORE) - Los Alamitos, CA
  COIN, Columbia Online Information Network - Columbia, Missouri
  Denver Free-Net - Denver, Colorado
  Lorain County Free-Net - Elyria, Ohio
  National Capital Free-Net - Ottawa Canada
  Sendit North Dakota, North Dakota's K-12 Educational Telecommunication
  Tallhassee Free-Net - Tallahassee, Florida
  Victoria Free-Net - Victoria, British Columbia
  Virginia's Public Education Network (PEN) - Richmond, VA
  Wellington Citynet - Wellington, New Zealand



From uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!urrostko Wed Jun 23 10:32:17 1993
Status: RO
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Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1993 10:22:48 -0700
From:	Robert Rostkowski <urrostko@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I apologize if you received my "Updated List..." message twice. It came back
with messages like: "Service unavailable" and "User unknown". Until
yesterday, my mail never came back like that.

If you care to, feel free to write me back at: urrostko@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
and let me know, if you received that message.





From grace.rt.cs.boeing.com!douglas Tue Jul  6 06:08:22 1993
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	[nil "Tue" "6" "July" "1993" "06:04:52" "-0700" "Doug Schuler" "douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com" nil "20" "from Steve Hoffman..." "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Message-ID: <9307061304.AA29292@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com>
Date:	Tue, 6 Jul 1993 06:04:52 -0700
From:	Doug Schuler <douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: from Steve Hoffman...

Reading suggestions from Steve Hoffman--->


> To: dschuler@cs.washington.edu
> Subject: more reading material
> From: steveh@seanews.akita.com (Steve Hoffman)
> 
> Hi Doug -
> 
> The latest issue of "The Nation" has some interesting articles on the 
> Internet and "The Information Highway - Who will Control It?"
> (7/12/93 issue) - just in case you need more stuff to read <g>
> 
> -Steve
> 
> --
> [] SEANEWS [] Seattle Public Access Usenet News + Mail [] +1 206 747 NEWS []
> steveh@seanews.akita.com
> 
> 

From grace.rt.cs.boeing.com!douglas Tue Jul 13 07:05:07 1993
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	[nil "Tue" "13" "July" "1993" "07:02:09" "-0700" "Doug Schuler" "douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com" nil "66" "Community Network Survey" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Message-ID: <9307131402.AA25450@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com>
Date:	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 07:02:09 -0700
From:	Doug Schuler <douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Community Network Survey



Community Networkers,

A few months ago I distributed a community network survey to several
electronic forums.  I stated that I'd make the survey results available
electronically and I've received quite a few requests for the results.  
I've *finally* moved them to a site suitable for anonymous ftp.

   ftp to atlas.ce.washington.edu
   login = anonymous 
   password = e-mail-address
   cd to pub/seattle-community-network/community-networks/surveys

The completed surveys, explanatory information and blank surveys
are also in the direcory.  I hope to maintain up-to-date information
so completed surveys on systems not previously described or completed
surveys that reflect major changes in status are welcome.  I'd prefer
that these be mailed to me.  My address is dschuler@cs.washington.edu.

I've received nearly 30 completed surveys so far.

I hope that this information is useful.  Thanks to everybody that's 
participated!

-- Doug


P.S.  I've purposefully kept the survey short.  I'm interested in 
comments on improving the survey.



             Completed (or nearly completed) Surveys
	     ---------------------------------------

CIAO-trail-freenet			Vancouver, B.C., Canada
IGC					San Francisco, CA	
SPACECON				Merritt Island, FL
african-studies-bbs			Madison, WI
akron-regional-freenet			Akron, OH
boston-peace-and-justice-hotline	Brighton, MA
chippewa-valley-freenet			Eau Claire, WI
columbia-online-information-network	Columbia, MO
cruzio					Santa Cruz, CA
denver-freenet				Denver, CO
ecoline					Burlington, VT
eugene-community-network		Eugene, OR
FACTS					Fayetteville, NC    [nearly ready]
heartland-freenet			Peoria, IL
mt-view-community-network		Mountain View, CA
national-capital-freenet		Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
new-mexico-network			Albuquerque, NM
rtk					Washington, DC
santa-cruz-county-wan			Santa Cruz, CA
seattle-community-network		Seattle, WA         [nearly ready]
slo-county				San Luis Obispo, CA
suncoast-freenet			Tampa, FL
sustainable-development-info-network	Cambridge, MA
toronto-freenet				Toronto, Ontario, Canada
triangle-freenet			Triangle Park, NC
youngstown-freenet			Youngstown, OH


-----------
Thanks to David Barts and Coralee Whitcomb for help with this.

From netcom.com!amcgee Tue Jul 13 15:46:27 1993
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	[nil "Tue" "13" "July" "1993" "15:37:46" "-0700" "\"Arthur R. McGee\"" "amcgee@netcom.com" nil "28" "Re: Community Network Survey" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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In-Reply-to: <9307131402.AA25450@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.05.9307131539.D4781-a100000@netcom>
Date:	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 15:37:46 -0700
From:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
To:	Doug Schuler <douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com>
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Community Network Survey
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>              Completed (or nearly completed) Surveys
> 	     ---------------------------------------
> 
> boston-peace-and-justice-hotline	Brighton, MA
> sustainable-development-info-network	Cambridge, MA

Could you PLEASE give me the Telnet addresses or dialup phone numbers for
these systems? My research covers the areas of both Social Justice and
Int'l Development, so I am VERY interested in knowing more about these
systems.

Thanks in advance.


Art "Rambo" McGee


Internet: [amcgee@netcom.com]
          [amcgee@eis.calstate.edu]
BDPA BAC: [1-707-552-3314] to [Arthur McGee]
Data Bits Online: [1-213-295-6094] to [Arthur McGee]
Compuserve: [72377,1351]
Voice: [1-310-320-BYTE]

"The revolution will not be televised, but
 the proceedings will be available online." ;->



From netcom.com!amcgee Tue Jul 13 15:51:57 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Tue" "13" "July" "1993" "15:48:21" "-0700" "\"Arthur R. McGee\"" "amcgee@netcom.com" nil "53" "Community Networks Paper (ftp file) (fwd)" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Date:	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 15:48:21 -0700
From:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Community Networks Paper (ftp file) (fwd)
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 11:58:23 -0700
From: Steve Cisler <sac@APPLE.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list DEVEL-L <DEVEL-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: Community Networks Paper (ftp file)

I have posted the following file on ftp.apple.com in the
/ftp/alug/communet directory. It's in Word (Mac), ascii (none of the
important illustrations), and Postscript (huge file if you can handle
it).  I have posted the ascii version (65kb) in four sections on
the COMMUNET mailing list and on comp.misc in Usenet.

Community Computer Networks:
Building Electronic Greenbelts

Copyright by Steve Cisler
Apple Library, 4 Infinite Loop MS 304-2A
Cupertino, California 95014
408 974 3258
Internet: sac@apple.com
6/20/93
version 1.1.1

What are community networks? What sorts of information and services can
you find on these systems? What groups are starting and running
community networks? How costly are the systems, and what are the sources
of funding? This essay will discuss a number of current models for
community networks,  examine what impact they can have on the
environment in which they grow, and make a few wild guesses about the
future of such networks given the changes in computing and
telecommunications technologies.

---
A brief outline
1. The Past: a look at the way electricity spread in America 100 years
ago.
2. The Present online scene; description of community networks
3. Examples: Hawaii FYI, National Capital Freenet, Big Sky Telegraph,
and Wellington, NZ, Community Computer Network.
4. Social Aspects and new projects
5. Other models: Cupertino City Net, Mercury Center, and other commercial
systems.
6. Designing a system for the 90's; mirror worlds, MUDs
7. Further information
Steve Cisler                     sac@apple.com
Apple Library
4 Infinite Loop MS 304-2A
Cupertino, California 95014
408 974 3258
fax 408 825 7502



From eagle.mit.edu!presnick Wed Jul 14 09:27:52 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Wed" "14" "July" "1993" "10:32:35" "-0700" "Paul Resnick" "presnick@eagle.mit.edu " nil "17" "boston-peace-and-justice-hotline" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Message-ID: <9307141624.AA04227@EAGLE.MIT.EDU>
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 10:32:35 -0700
From:	presnick@eagle.mit.edu (Paul Resnick)
To:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: boston-peace-and-justice-hotline


The Boston Peace and Justice Events Hotline is a "telephone" bulletin board. 
That means you call from a touch-tone phone rather than a computer modem. It 
also means that all of the information is either recorded voice or entered with 
touch-tones. It's been running for 2 1/2 years now.

Call 617-787-6809 to try it out. If you want more info. about how its 
administered, etc, call Charlie Welch at 617-783-1668.

By the way, the software that runs this is available free for non-commercial 
uses, but you'd have to buy some hardware ($400 telephony card from Natural 
Microsystems; a 486 PC-clone). The system can be configured easily (over the 
phone!) to handle bulletin boards with hierarchical menus, event announcements, 
issue discussion, and classified ads. For more info. about how to set one of 
these up, call me, Paul Resnick, at 617-253-8694.

-Paul-

From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Wed Jul 14 10:20:19 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Wed" "14" "July" "1993" "08:39:54" "-0700" "chris" "chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us " nil "38" "What People Do With These Things" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 08:39:54 -0700
From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (chris)
To:	community-access@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Subject: What People Do With These Things

This is an update along the lines of (I think) either Mary's
or Evelyn's wanting to know what people DO with these things
(comm net systems).

Cruzio is "hosting" an electronic candidate's forum for the
CA 27th Assembly District elections. The 27th Assembly District is
mostly Santa Cruz and Monterey counties. The election was called 
to replace Samm Farr who was elected to Leon Panetta's congressional
seat.

In a nutshell, I'm contacting all the candidates to either
get them online or get them to fax info that I am putting online.
Info gets posted to 2 USENET newsgroups, ba.politics and scruz.politics.
In addition, we've set up a mail based archive and list server
with a mailing list for the forum.

For more info, send mail to:  info-request@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
which will generate an automatic reply.

The forum started yesterday, and will be ongoing through the election
in August and into the election in November if one is necessary.

I have to say that of the 7 candidates and their staff I've spoken 
with so far, only 2 have come online. My take on getting 
reps online is they either don't know what the heck the net is
_or_ their campaign professionals don't want to be on the net, because
it is "unmanagable" in the sense that the media is managable.
(control the coverage, get sound bites on the air, etc.).

Hopefully this forum will break a little new ground and raise some
consciousness out there...

ccn


-- 

	          chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us

From eagle.mit.edu!presnick Wed Jul 14 14:15:49 1993
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	[nil "Wed" "14" "July" "1993" "15:18:25" "-0700" "Paul Resnick" "presnick@eagle.mit.edu " nil "13" "Re: electoral political fora" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Message-ID: <9307142109.AA14067@EAGLE.MIT.EDU>
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 15:18:25 -0700
From:	presnick@eagle.mit.edu (Paul Resnick)
To:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (chris)
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: electoral political fora


We're thinking about having a candidates forum on the phone-based Boston Peace 
and Justice Events Hotline, for the Boston Mayoral election. If we try it, it 
will be interesting to see whether more candidates participate, since they won't 
have to know what "the net" is, and they can do "sound-bytes".

Please keep me posted, Chris, about any other issues that crop up. If we go 
ahead with the idea, I'll keep y'all posted on how it turns out.

Also, if anyone else has experience with getting candidates to participate in 
on-line systems, please let me know about it. 

-Paul-

From igc.apc.org!gmarcus Wed Jul 14 19:24:05 1993
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	[nil "Wed" "14" "July" "1993" "19:16:16" "-0700" "gmarcus@igc.apc.org" "gmarcus@igc.apc.org" nil "7" "Re: electoral political fora" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Illegal-Object: Syntax error in From: address found on alpha.xerox.com:
	From:	Genevieve Grafe Marcus -- Ph.D. <gmarcus@igc.apc.org>
		^			    ^-illegal period in phrase
		 \-phrases containing '.' must be quoted
X-NS-Transport-ID: 08002008D0FD004DC81D
Message-ID: <9307150216.AA12280@igc.apc.org>
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1993 19:16:16 -0700
From:	gmarcus@igc.apc.org
To:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us, presnick@eagle.mit.edu
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: electoral political fora

Chris,

Using the telephone net, I would ask for a brief telephone 
interview and if necessary, show candidates the questions in 
advance.  

Genevieve Marcus

From netcom.com!grantbow Sun Jul 25 10:20:08 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Sun" "25" "July" "1993" "11:18:35" "-0700" "Grant R. Bowman" "grantbow@netcom.com " nil "184" "EFF announcment of S.1086" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Message-ID: <9307251716.AA00769@netcom.netcom.com>
Date:	Sun, 25 Jul 1993 11:18:35 -0700
From:	grantbow@netcom.com (Grant R. Bowman)
To:	"Communet: Community and Civic Network Discussion List" <COMMUNET%UVMVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>,
	ba-toast-conf@cpsr.org, elcorr-govcit@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu,
	freenet-discuss@uclink.berkeley.edu, community-access@parc.xerox.com,
	svp@eitech.com
Subject: EFF announcment of S.1086

        Here we go.  All hell may break loose with the cable and telephone
providers if I read this correctly.
        I have no idea what this all means, but I do know I need to know
more about this.  Does anyone else have the low-down on what this really
means?

Cheers,

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------<
   Grant Bowman                                Planning Director, SV-PAL
   grantbow@netcom.com                 Silicon Valley Public Access Link
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------<

******************************************************************
           //////////////     //////////////     //////////////
         ///                ///                ///
       ///////            ///////            ///////
     ///                ///                ///
   //////////////     ///                ///
******************************************************************
EFFector Online Volume 5 No. 13       7/23/1993       editors@eff.org
A Publication of the Electronic Frontier Foundation   ISSN 1062-9424

                  -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==- 
                        In this issue:
             Online Congressional Hearings Postponed
             Summary of New Infrastructure Bill
             EFF Joins Telecommunications Policy Roundtable
                   -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==- 

[other items deleted]
*******************************************************
Telecommunications Infrastructure Act of 1993 (S. 1086)
*******************************************************

Introduced by Senators Danforth and Inouye on June 9, 1993
First hearing scheduled: July 14, 9:30 AM

A Summary by the Electronic Frontier Foundation

The Senate Communications Subcommittee is now in the process of 
considering legislation that would eliminate the legal monopoly that 
local telephone companies have on local phone service, allow any 
communications provider to offer local phone service, and allow local 
telephone companies to compete fully in the cable television market.  
The legislation's goal is to promote increased investment in the 
nation's telecommunications infrastructure.

The bill proposes many significant policy changes, chief among 
which is a very rapid move toward deregulating the local telephone 
companies' monopoly on local telephone service.  The policies proposed 
are laid out in broad concepts, leaving the Federal Communications 
Commission to wrestle with the actual implementation of the policies.

LOCAL EXCHANGE COMPETITION

One year after the bill is enacted, any company would be allowed 
to offer local telephone service.  Potential new entrants that would be 
allowed in the local exchange market under this bill include cable 
television companies, wireless service providers, and even Bell 
companies outside their current local exchange monopoly areas.  Any 
State laws that would preserve the current telephone company monopoly 
or limit the entry of competitors are pre-empted by the bill.

TELECOMMUNICATIONS CARRIER OBLIGATIONS

Any company that offers telecommunications service or is 
interconnected with the local exchange carrier's network has several 
obligations under this bill.  The definition of telecommunications 
service is somewhat vague, but it certainly includes voice telephone 
service, interactive data services used to carry information services, 
and possibly one-way video services such as those currently provided by 
cable television companies.  Carriers' obligations include:

1. Interconnection

All carriers that either provide telecommunications service or are 
interconnected with a carrier that provides telecommunications 
service must allow other carriers to interconnect with their network 
for the purpose of providing telecommunications or information services 
to users of either network.  Network operators must provide 
interconnection under nondiscriminatory terms, on an unbundled basis.  
Operators must also supply all necessary technical information to enable 
others to interconnect and interoperate from one network to another.

2. Universal Service

All providers of telecommunications service must contribute to the 
"preservation and advancement of universal service."  States, in 
cooperation with the FCC, are responsible to make regulations that 
establish the mechanism for supporting universal service in the newly 
competitive telephone market.  The bill does provide, however, that any 
universal service support should be given directly to "individuals and 
entities that cannot afford the cost" of telecommunications service.  
Subsidy for users' communications equipment is also allowed.

3. Number Portability

The FCC will establish regulations the provide for "portable" 
numbers from all carriers as soon as possible.  Thus, a customer could 
switch telecommunications providers without having to change telephone 
numbers.  The administration of the numbering system would be removed 
from Bellcore and placed with an "impartial entity."

INFRASTRUCTURE FOR RURAL AREAS AND NONCOMPETITIVE MARKETS

The bill recognizes that in a competitive market environment, 
rural and "noncompetitive markets" may not enjoy the level of investment 
necessary for providing advanced telecommunications services.  The 
minimum level of service desired in the bill is that which would 
"provide subscribers with sufficient network capacity to access to 
information services that provide a combination of voice, data, image, 
and video; and are available at nondiscriminatory rates that are based 
on the reasonably identifiable costs of providing such services."  It is 
not clear that such services would be interactive.  State regulators would 
be given the primary responsibility to ensure that carriers have an 
incentive to provide high-quality services to all areas.  If this 
approach fails, the FCC is empowered to take action to have necessary 
service delivered to these areas.

NETWORK STANDARDS AND PLANNING

All segments of the communications industry are encouraged to work 
together to set voluntary standards for interconnection and 
interoperability.  If the FCC determines that standards development is 
not succeeding or is proceeding too slowly, it may set incentives or 
deadlines for work to be completed.  The FCC may also impose mandatory 
standards if the voluntary process fails.  

The FCC and the States are required to ensure that advanced 
telecommunications services are designed to be accessible to people with 
disabilities.

TELEPHONE COMPANY ENTRY INTO CABLE TELEVISION MARKET

The current ban preventing local telephone companies from entering 
the cable television market is lifted, in part.  Local phone companies 
will be allowed, under the bill, to provide cable television service 
within their serving area, if the service is provided by a 
separate subsidiary and the phone company does not break any laws 
regarding improper cross-subsidization between phone service and cable 
services.  By the same token, cable companies that provide 
telecommunications service must do so through separate subsidiaries and 
obey laws regarding cross-subsidization.  Phone companies are still not 
allowed to purchase more than 5 percent interest in any cable system 
that provides services within the phone companies' service regions.

CHANGES IN LONG DISTANCE RESTRICTIONS

The restrictions on local phone companies against providing long 
distance (InterLATA) telecommunications service are lifted, in part, by 
the bill, to enable local phone companies to function more easily in the 
cable television and cellular phone markets.  Bell companies would be 
allowed to operate wireline and satellite links for the purposes of 
distributing cable television signals over long distances.  Some 
relaxation of the InterLATA restriction is also allowed to enable Bell 
companies to carry cellular phone calls from one region to another, and 
to hand off calls from one cellular system to another.  

INFORMATION SERVICES SAFEGUARDS

Bell companies that provide information services must do so 
through a separate subsidiary in order to prevent cross-subsidies that 
would be unfair to consumers of basic phone service and to information 
service competitors.  The separate subsidiary must maintain separate 
books and records, only engage in arms-length transactions with the Bell 
company, and follow other regulations that the FCC issues regarding 
accounting, tariffing, and business practices.

PRIVACY OF CUSTOMER TRANSACTION INFORMATION

Telecommunications carriers are prohibited from disclosing 
information about individual customers unless there is an affirmative, 
written request to do so by that customer.  Carriers must, however, make 
any information (Customer Proprietary Network Information) that is 
disclosed available equally to their affiliates and all competitors who 
request the information.  Customer Proprietary Network Information 
includes quantity, type, and technical characteristics of 
telecommunications service used by a customer, as well as information 
contained in bills received by the customer.

[A complete copy of S.1086 is available by anonymous ftp on ftp.eff.org.]
[Please direct any questions to eff@eff.org.]


From netcom.com!sjl Sun Jul 25 10:32:09 1993
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	[nil "Sun" "25" "July" "1993" "03:31:28" "-0700" "Scott Loftesness" "sjl@netcom.com " nil "20" "Re: EFF announcment of S.1086" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Message-ID: <9307251729.AA01392@netcom.netcom.com>
Date:	Sun, 25 Jul 1993 03:31:28 -0700
From:	sjl@netcom.com (Scott Loftesness)
To:	grantbow@netcom.com (Grant R. Bowman),
	"Communet: Community and Civic Network Discussion List" <COMMUNET%UVMVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>,
	ba-toast-conf@cpsr.org, elcorr-govcit@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu,
	freenet-discuss@uclink.berkeley.edu, community-access@parc.xerox.com,
	svp@eitech.com
Subject: Re: EFF announcment of S.1086

At 11:18 AM 7/25/93 -0700, Grant R. Bowman wrote:

>        Here we go.  All hell may break loose with the cable and telephone
>providers if I read this correctly.
>        I have no idea what this all means, but I do know I need to know
>more about this.  Does anyone else have the low-down on what this really
>means?

This bill appears to offer the political compromise that the
telecommmunications and cable industries have been searching for.

A couple of things are interesting, however:

1. There are only two sponsors.
2. There is no corresponding House bill.

I'd guess the odds of passage this session are low.

Scott


From ll.pbs.org!ptw08 Wed Jul 28 08:13:10 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Wed" "28" "July" "1993" "07:40:28" "-0700" "Peter Miller" "ptw08@ll.pbs.org" nil "4" "Survey info terrific, thanks!" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Content-Length: 222
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Message-ID: <9307281040.aa06271@justin.ll.pbs.org>
Date:	Wed, 28 Jul 1993 07:40:28 -0700
From:	Peter Miller <ptw08@ll.pbs.org>
To:	dschuler@cs.washington.edu
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Survey info terrific, thanks!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Doug, thanks a whole lot for the work, listing and info. A summary/overview
would certainly be interesting (I'm sure we'd publish it in Impact and, no 
doubt, the CPSR newsletter would find it valuable, too).


From igc.apc.org!commem!carl Wed Jul 28 11:42:18 1993
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	[nil "Wed" "28" "July" "1993" "11:34:30" "-0700" "carl%commem@igc.apc.org" "carl%commem@igc.apc.org" nil "28" "List Description" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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	id AA17468; Wed, 28 Jul 93 11:34:30 PDT
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Message-ID: <9307281834.AA17468@igc.apc.org>
Date:	Wed, 28 Jul 1993 11:34:30 -0700
From:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: List Description

As part of some long-overdue electronic housecleaning, I've updated my
description of the community access list to incorporate a couple of
suggestions I received.  Here's the latest version; feel free to comment.
-Carl
------------

Our list grew out of a workshop at the DIAC-92 conference hosted by
CPSR.  It was intended as a place where people actually running
community networking systems and people who studied or were concerned
about such systems could exchange ideas.  Our loose definition of
community networking includes both some sort of geographical focus
and some attempt to involve non-traditional computer users.  Our list
includes representatives from at least three active systems:
 - Berkeley's Community Memory, which is based around publicly-located
   terminal kiosks that anyone can use, and
 - Cruzio in Santa Cruz, a dial-in system that focuses on building
   connections between local resources.
 - the Boston Peace and Justice Events Hotline, a voice-based system
   that can be accessed from any touch-tone phone.
In addition, there are representatives of a network being established
by CPSR's Washington, D.C. chapter.  The list also includes a number
of academics and social activists with an interest in the role of
computer communications in society.  Traffic is generally light, but
interesting.  It consists of announcements of recent developments in
community networking, and discussions of issues such as how such
systems are actually used, user interface models, managing abusive
behavior online, and funding and governance options.


From uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!urrostko Wed Jul 28 14:46:07 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Wed" "28" "July" "1993" "14:39:31" "-0700" "Robert Rostkowski" "urrostko@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu" nil "35" "Re: List Description" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Date:	Wed, 28 Jul 1993 14:39:31 -0700
From:	Robert Rostkowski <urrostko@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>
To:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: List Description
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Where can we can find this list?

On Wed, 28 Jul 1993 carl%commem@igc.apc.org wrote:

> As part of some long-overdue electronic housecleaning, I've updated my
> description of the community access list to incorporate a couple of
> suggestions I received.  Here's the latest version; feel free to comment.
> -Carl
> ------------
> 
> Our list grew out of a workshop at the DIAC-92 conference hosted by
> CPSR.  It was intended as a place where people actually running
> community networking systems and people who studied or were concerned
> about such systems could exchange ideas.  Our loose definition of
> community networking includes both some sort of geographical focus
> and some attempt to involve non-traditional computer users.  Our list
> includes representatives from at least three active systems:
>  - Berkeley's Community Memory, which is based around publicly-located
>    terminal kiosks that anyone can use, and
>  - Cruzio in Santa Cruz, a dial-in system that focuses on building
>    connections between local resources.
>  - the Boston Peace and Justice Events Hotline, a voice-based system
>    that can be accessed from any touch-tone phone.
> In addition, there are representatives of a network being established
> by CPSR's Washington, D.C. chapter.  The list also includes a number
> of academics and social activists with an interest in the role of
> computer communications in society.  Traffic is generally light, but
> interesting.  It consists of announcements of recent developments in
> community networking, and discussions of issues such as how such
> systems are actually used, user interface models, managing abusive
> behavior online, and funding and governance options.
> 




From netcom.com!amcgee Wed Jul 28 15:03:29 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Wed" "28" "July" "1993" "14:58:14" "-0700" "\"Arthur R. McGee\"" "amcgee@netcom.com" nil "3" "Re: List Description" "^Date:" nil nil "7"])
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Date:	Wed, 28 Jul 1993 14:58:14 -0700
From:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
To:	Robert Rostkowski <urrostko@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>
cc:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org, community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: List Description
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

It's the list you are subscribed to, COMMUNITY-ACCESS. :-)



From uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!urrostko Thu Aug 26 16:15:16 1993
Status: RO
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	[nil "Thu" "26" "August" "1993" "16:06:53" "-0700" "Robert Rostkowski" "urrostko@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu" nil "105" "Update list of systems you can try out (fwd)" "^Date:" nil nil "8"])
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Date:	Thu, 26 Aug 1993 16:06:53 -0700
From:	Robert Rostkowski <urrostko@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Update list of systems you can try out (fwd)
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Here's some information that may interest you.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 14:17:15 +0501
From: Judy Hallman <hallman@GIBBS.OIT.UNC.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list CWIS-L <CWIS-L@WUVMD.BITNET>
Subject: Update list of systems you can try out

To CWIS-L list:

I've finished the update of the list of systems you can try out.
Instructions for getting it are included below along with changes made in
this edition. If you cannot get a copy yourself and would like me to
e-mail it to you, just let me know. It is 1213 lines long.

Thanks to all for your help.

Judy Hallman
=============================================================
Campus-Wide Information Systems (CWIS)
=============================================================
The following is information from the listserver
CWIS-L@WUVMD.BITNET, prepared by Judy Hallman
(Judy_Hallman@unc.edu), UNC-Chapel Hill, August 20, 1993.

You can pick up this list by anonymous ftp to sunsite.unc.edu;
cd pub/docs/about-the-net/cwis, get cwis-l (that's the letter l).

Or point your gopher to:

Name=cwis-l   list of campus wide information services connectable from
              the Internet
Type=0
Port=70
Path=0/.pub/docs/about-the-net/cwis/cwis-l
Host=sunsite.unc.edu


Using UNC's laUNChpad system or LIBS on the UNC-CH VAX

The laUNChpad System, offered by UNC-CH, can connect you to many
of the information systems in this list. You may access laUNChpad
through telnet, using launchpad.unc.edu as the connection. For
"username" type 'launch'. When you get laUNChpad's menu, select
item 3, "On-line Information Systems (LIBTEL)."

Or you can use similar software on the UNC-CH DEC VAX computer's
VMS service. Connect to  uncvx1.oit.unc.edu; for "username" type
LIBTEL. When you get the LIBS menu, select item  3 "Campus-wide
Information Systems."

The two systems are quite similar, presenting essentially the same
information using different menus. LaUNCHpad automates more of the
connection steps.


Gophers

Many CWISs are done in Gopher software (from the University of
Minnesota). Once you connect to one gopher, you usually have
access to all the others that are registered. If you do not have
local access to a gopher, here are just two of many you can telnet
to (emulate a vt100):

consultant.micro.umn.edu (134.84.132.3) -- home of the gopher!
login as gopher

gopher.unc.edu -- the UNC SunSITE gopher
login as gopher


-------------------------------------------------------------
Summary of changes in this version:
-------------------------------------------------------------

ADDED:
Drexel University - Drexel Online
Hood College - HoodInfo
Library of Congress Machine-Assisted Realization of the Virtual
  Electronic Library (LC MARVEL)
Poudre-R1 Gopher Information Service (Colorado State University
  K-12 project)
Purdue University THOR+
University of Chicago -- UCInfo

Australia
University of New England-Northern Rivers

Community-Wide Information Systems
CapAccess: The National Capital Area Public Access Network, Washington

Kindergarten through 12th Grade (K-12) Information Systems
UMassK12: University of Massachusetts/Amherst K-12 Information System

CHANGED:
North Carolina State University Happening! and InfoPoint
University of Pennsylvania -- PennInfo
Victoria Free-Net - Victoria, British Columbia
Separated Kindergarten through 12th Grade (K-12) Information
  Systems from Community-Wide Information Systems

DELETED:
San Diego State University -- sdsuinfo



From grace.rt.cs.boeing.com!douglas Mon Sep 13 07:31:04 1993
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	[nil "Mon" "13" "September" "1993" "05:49:15" "-0700" "Doug Schuler" "douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com" nil "257" "Call for Endorsement: PUblic Interest Telecommunications Policy" "^Date:" nil nil "9"])
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Message-ID: <9309131249.AA28802@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com>
Date:	Mon, 13 Sep 1993 05:49:15 -0700
From:	Doug Schuler <douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Call for Endorsement: PUblic Interest Telecommunications Policy



For your information and potential endorsements I'm sending an appeal
for organizational endorsements out to this list.  I attended the meeting 
referred to on Tuesday and there is a sense that we need the administration 
to know our feelings soon and strong.

Feel free to distribute this note.

Feel free to contact me or (better) the people mentioned below about
these principles.

Thanks!

-- Doug

===================================================================

     CITIZEN'S COALITION SEEKS ORGANIZATIONAL ENDORSEMENTS
     FOR TELECOMMUNICATIONS "PUBLIC INTEREST PRINCIPLES"


     WASHINGTON, DC.  On September 1, 1993, a citizens
coalition, currently operating under the name Telecommunications
Policy Roundtable, sent out its revised "Public Interest
Principles."  The group wants to circulate these principles
widely, and hopes to get organizations to endorse the principles
by September 17.  (The group has also tentatively scheduled a
press conference for October 7.)

     The "Public Interest Principles" were revised by the group
over August, and reflected input received from a wide range of
organizations, as well as the Internet community, via electronic
mail.  Kathryn Montgomery, the co-director of the Center for
Media Education, was responsible for coordinating the drafting
of the principles.

     As noted, the Telecommunications Policy Roundtable is
seeking *organizational* endorsements for its principles.
Organizations willing to sign on should send their permission
to:

     Kathryn Montgomery
     Center for Media Education
     1511 K Street, Suite 518  
     Washington, DC  20005  
     voice:  202/628-2620
     fax:  202/628-2554
     internet:  cme@access.digex.net

     On a related issue, on Tuesday, September 7, 1993, the Roundtable 
met in Washington with Larry Irving, the Assistant Secretary of Commerce 
for Communications and Information (and the new head of the National 
Telecommunications and Information Administration), to discuss the 
Clinton/Gore administration's policy initiatives in telecommunications 
and media policy.

     Persons wanting more information about the Roundtable are
urged to contact:

     Jeff Chester, Center for Media Education, 202/628-2620;
     cme@access.digex.net

     Marc Rotenberg, CPSR, 202/544-9240;
     rotenberg@washofc.cpsr.org

     Prue Adler, Association of Research Libraries,
     202/296-8656, prue@cni.org


===================================================================

          RENEWING THE COMMITMENT TO A PUBLIC INTEREST
                  TELECOMMUNICATIONS POLICY
            Telecommunications Policy Roundtable
                      September 1, 1993


A communications revolution is underway as profound as the
introduction of the printing press.  A new "National Information
Infrastructure" is rapidly moving into place -- which will carry
video, audio, and data information into homes and offices across
the country.  Its emergence will produce fundamental shifts in
American life, transforming everything from work to education to
government to culture.   Because the health of our democracy is
inextricably linked to the nature of our communications system,
this new information infrastructure raises far-reaching
questions about our country and its transition into the next
century:  Who will own these networks?  Who will have access to
them?  What steps will be taken to preserve public institutions?

Policy decisions made during the next few years will shape the
communications system for decades to come.  Enlightened policies
could harness the power of these new technologies to ameliorate
many of our nation's most critical problems by revitalizing
civic institutions, expanding educational opportunities,
enhancing access to health care services, and improving job
training.  However, without a clear commitment to public goals,
this promise will never be fulfilled.Instead, many of the
shortcomings of our present telecommunications system will be
intensified and a host of more serious problems created.   There
is already a growing disparity between the technologically
affluent and the technologically disenfranchised that endangers
our social fabric.

Policy makers must ensure that the development of the
information infrastructure reflects the public interest spirit
that has long guided our country's communications policies:  our
commitment to a national telephone system available to all gave
rise to the concept of "universal service," enabling those in
the most remote parts of the nation to have access to the means
of communication; our commitment to making noncommercial
educational, arts, and public affairs programming available to
all Americans led to the creation of a public broadcasting
system.

Our government has the responsibility as public trustee to
ensure that new communications technologies serve the democratic
and social needs of our country.  The rise of new technologies
and new businesses has increased the importance of this
responsibility.  The convergence of once separate industries
requires a new policy framework for the information
infrastructure, rooted in the shared values of our country
and dedicated to the common good.

We call on the President and the Congress to pursue a broad and
public interest vision for the National Information
Infrastructure.  We must move beyond narrow and short-term
interests and embrace a view that reflects the great diversity
and richness of our country.  Our policies should reflect the
values of a democratic government -- openness, participation,
and discussion.  They must be inclusive and generous in spirit,
ensuring that all segments of our pluralistic society have
meaningful access to the telecommunications system. These are
the principles on which a great nation has been built.

As representatives of many nonprofit and public interest
organizations, we believe that the following principles must
guide policy making in order to ensure that future generations
inherit an information infrastructure which enhances the quality
of life for everyone.


                PUBLIC INTEREST PRINCIPLES

1.  UNIVERSAL ACCESS

All people should have affordable access to the information
infrastructure.

Fundamental to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in
the Information Age is access to video, audio, and data networks
that provide a broad range of news, public affairs, education,
health, and government information and services.  Such services
should be provided in a user-friendly format, widely available
to everyone, including persons with disabilities.  Information
that is essential in order to fully participate in a democratic
society should be provided free.

2.  FREEDOM TO COMMUNICATE

The information infrastructure should enable all people to
effectively exercise their fundamental right to communicate.

Freedom of speech should be protected and fostered by the new
information infrastructure, guaranteeing the right of every
person to communicate easily, affordably, and effectively.  The
design of the infrastructure should facilitate two-way, audio
and video communication from anyone to any individual, group, or
network.  The rights of creators must be protected, while
accommodating the needs of users and libraries.
Telecommunication carriers should not be permitted to constrain
the free flow of information protected by the First Amendment.

3.  VITAL CIVIC SECTOR

The information infrastructure must have a vital civic sector at
its core.

For our democracy to flourish in the 21st Century, there must be
a vital civic sector which enables the meaningful participation
of all segments of our pluralistic society.   Just as we have
established public libraries and public highways, we must create
public arenas or "electronic commons" in the media landscape.
This will require the active involvement of a broad range of
civic institutions --  schools, universities, and libraries,
not-for-profit groups, and governmental organizations.  It will
also require vibrant public telecommunications networks at the
national, regional, and state level.

4.  DIVERSE AND COMPETITIVE MARKETPLACE

The information infrastructure should ensure competition among
ideas and information providers.

The information infrastructure must be designed to foster a
healthy marketplace of ideas, where a full range of viewpoints
is expressed and robust debate is stimulated.  Individuals,
nonprofits, and for-profit information providers need ready
access to this marketplace if it is to thrive.  To ensure
competition among information providers, policies should be
developed to lower barriers to entry (particularly for small
and independent services); telecommunications carriers should
not be permitted to control programming; and antitrust policies
should be vigorously enforced to prevent market dominance by
vertically-integrated media monopolies.


5.  EQUITABLE WORKPLACE

New technologies should be used to enhance the quality of work
and to promote equity in  the workplace.

Because the information infrastructure will transform the
content and conduct of work, policies should be developed to
ensure that electronic technologies are utilized to improve the
work environment rather than dehumanize it.   Workers should
share the benefits of the increased productivity that those
technologies make possible.  The rights and protections that
workers now enjoy should be preserved and enhanced.  To
encourage nondiscriminatory practices throughout the information
marketplace, public policy should promote greater representation
of women, people of color, and persons with disabilities at all
levels of management.

6.  PRIVACY

Privacy should be carefully protected and extended.
A comprehensive set of policies should be developed to ensure
that the privacy of all people is adequately protected.  The
collection of personal data should be strictly limited to the
minimum necessary to provide specific services.  Sharing data
collected from individuals should only be permitted with their
informed consent, freely given without coercion.  Individuals
should have the right to inspect and correct data files about
them.  Innovative billing practices should be developed that
increase individual privacy.

7.  DEMOCRATIC POLICYMAKING

The public should be fully involved in policy making for the
information infrastructure.

The public must be fully involved in all stages of the
development and ongoing regulation of the information
infrastructure.  The issues are not narrow technical matters
which will only affect us as consumers; they are fundamental
questions that will have profound effects on us as citizens
and could reshape our democracy.  Extensive efforts should be
made to fully inform the public about what is at stake, and to
encourage broad discussion and debate.  The policy process
should be conducted in an open manner with full press scrutiny.
Effective mechanisms should be established to ensure continued
public participation in telecommunications policymaking.




From netcom.com!amcgee Wed Sep 22 08:38:12 1993
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
	[nil "Wed" "22" "September" "1993" "08:16:22" "-0700" "\"Arthur R. McGee\"" "amcgee@netcom.com" nil "60" "Communities/Rural/Networks" "^Date:" nil nil "9"])
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In-Reply-to: <1993Sep21.162009.382135@saolgate.softarc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.05.9309220818.A7097-c100000@netcom3>
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1993 08:16:22 -0700
From:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
To:	freenet-tech@cunews.carleton.ca, freenet-admin@nptn.org,
	lanet@dhvx20.csudh.edu, community-access@parc.xerox.com,
	thesegroups@tic.com, communet@uvmvm.uvm.edu, calren@pacbell.com,
	svp@eitech.com
Subject: Communities/Rural/Networks
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

If you are even remotely interested in Civic, Local or Rural Computing
issues, organizations, activities, networks, libraries, schools, etc.,
then you need to be subscribed to at least one of the lists below.
*
This list is up to date as of SEPTEMBER 20, 1993.
*
CALREN      | listserver@pacbell.com |CA Research and Education Net
CET-MG      | almanac@esusda.gov |Communities in Economic Transition
CET-NEWS    | almanac@esusda.gov |Communities in Economic Transition News
COMMUNET    | listserv@uvmvm.uvm.edu |Community and Civic Networks
COMMUNITY-A | community-access-request@parc.xerox.com |Community Access Issues
              (Note: The complete and full list name is COMMUNITY-ACCESS)
COSNDISC    | listserv@bitnic.educom.edu |Consortium for School Networking
CPSR        | listserv@gwuvm.gwu.edu |Computer Pros for Social Responsibility
FREENET-ADM | listserv@nptn.org |Free-Net Administrators and Committees
              (Note: The full and correct list name is FREENET-ADMIN)
FREENET-TEC | listprocessor@cunews.carleton.ca |Technical Freenet Operation
              (Note: The full and correct list name is FREENET-TECH)
H-RURAL     | listserv@uicvm.uic.edu |Rural & Agricultural History
LANET       | unpublished |Community Networking in Los Angeles County
LM_NET      | listserv@suvm.acs.syr.edu |School Library Media & Network Comm
PACS-L      | listserv@uhupvm1.uh.edu |Library & Public Access Computer Systems
PUBLIB-NET  | listserv@nysernet.org |Public Libraries and the Internet
PUBNET      | pubnet-request@chinacat.unicom.com |Use & Administration of PACS
RURALAM     | listserv@ibm.cl.msu.edu |Rural America Cluster Evaluation
RURALDEV    | listserv@ksuvm.ksu.edu |Community/Rural Economic Development
SVP         | jvsv-services@eitech.com |Smart Valley Project(JV:SV)
              (Subject: listserv subscribe svp your_name_goes_here)
THESEGROUPS | unpublished |Local Communications, Legal, Social Activism Groups
*
To subscribe, send a one line message that says:
*
SUB MAILING_LIST_NAME YOUR_FIRST_NAME YOUR_LAST_NAME
*
to the appropriate listserv address.
*
Please let me know if you have any others that you would suggest. Peace.
*
*
Art "Rambo" McGee
*
*
NETCOM:   [amcgee@netcom.com] (ftp.netcom.com in pub/amcgee for my "stuff")
CORE/EIS: [amcgee@eis.calstate.edu] (Experimental system for education/tech)
PeaceNet: [amcgee@igc.apc.org] (Best place for int'l development information)
WELL:     [amcgee@well.sf.ca.us] (MAY be hosting African oriented conference)
AfriInfo: [mcgee@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu] (Email/Finger for Black/African Info)
BDPA BAC: [1-707-552-3314] to [Arthur McGee] (Co-Sysop. Lists are also here)
DataBits: [1-213-295-6094] to [Arthur McGee] (BDPA L.A. Chapter Member/Mascot)
CIS:      [72377,1351] (Meet me in TELECOM, EFFSIG, IBMBBS, and ISSUES)
AOL:      [When will Black Enterprise, Emerge, Vibe, D&D, etc., be online?]
Voice:    [1-310-320-BYTE] (Cute, huh? :-D  Only $10 for a one time fee)
*
*
"The revolution will not be televised, but
 the proceedings will be available online." ;->
*
(c)1993 Arthur R. McGee & Associates(AKA Africans Around the World). ;-)



From world.std.com!fidelman Wed Sep 22 09:00:25 1993
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	[nil "Wed" "22" "September" "1993" "08:47:08" "-0700" "Miles R Fidelman" "fidelman@civicnet.org" nil "83" "Re: Communities/Rural/Networks" "^Date:" nil nil "9"])
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Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1993 08:47:08 -0700
From:	Miles R Fidelman <fidelman@civicnet.org>
Sender: fidelman@world.std.com
To:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
cc:	freenet-tech@cunews.carleton.ca, freenet-admin@nptn.org,
	lanet@dhvx20.csudh.edu, community-access@parc.xerox.com,
	thesegroups@tic.com, communet@uvmvm.uvm.edu, calren@pacbell.com,
	svp@eitech.com
Subject: Re: Communities/Rural/Networks
Reply-to: Miles R Fidelman <fidelman@civicnet.org>
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Arthur,

Nice list.  One more to add:  nii_agenda@civicnet.org.

Regards,

Miles


> If you are even remotely interested in Civic, Local or Rural Computing
> issues, organizations, activities, networks, libraries, schools, etc.,
> then you need to be subscribed to at least one of the lists below.
> *
> This list is up to date as of SEPTEMBER 20, 1993.
> *
> CALREN      | listserver@pacbell.com |CA Research and Education Net
> CET-MG      | almanac@esusda.gov |Communities in Economic Transition
> CET-NEWS    | almanac@esusda.gov |Communities in Economic Transition News
> COMMUNET    | listserv@uvmvm.uvm.edu |Community and Civic Networks
> COMMUNITY-A | community-access-request@parc.xerox.com |Community Access Issues
>               (Note: The complete and full list name is COMMUNITY-ACCESS)
> COSNDISC    | listserv@bitnic.educom.edu |Consortium for School Networking
> CPSR        | listserv@gwuvm.gwu.edu |Computer Pros for Social Responsibility
> FREENET-ADM | listserv@nptn.org |Free-Net Administrators and Committees
>               (Note: The full and correct list name is FREENET-ADMIN)
> FREENET-TEC | listprocessor@cunews.carleton.ca |Technical Freenet Operation
>               (Note: The full and correct list name is FREENET-TECH)
> H-RURAL     | listserv@uicvm.uic.edu |Rural & Agricultural History
> LANET       | unpublished |Community Networking in Los Angeles County
> LM_NET      | listserv@suvm.acs.syr.edu |School Library Media & Network Comm
> PACS-L      | listserv@uhupvm1.uh.edu |Library & Public Access Computer Systems
> PUBLIB-NET  | listserv@nysernet.org |Public Libraries and the Internet
> PUBNET      | pubnet-request@chinacat.unicom.com |Use & Administration of PACS
> RURALAM     | listserv@ibm.cl.msu.edu |Rural America Cluster Evaluation
> RURALDEV    | listserv@ksuvm.ksu.edu |Community/Rural Economic Development
> SVP         | jvsv-services@eitech.com |Smart Valley Project(JV:SV)
>               (Subject: listserv subscribe svp your_name_goes_here)
> THESEGROUPS | unpublished |Local Communications, Legal, Social Activism Groups
> *
> To subscribe, send a one line message that says:
> *
> SUB MAILING_LIST_NAME YOUR_FIRST_NAME YOUR_LAST_NAME
> *
> to the appropriate listserv address.
> *
> Please let me know if you have any others that you would suggest. Peace.
> *
> *
> Art "Rambo" McGee
> *
> *
> NETCOM:   [amcgee@netcom.com] (ftp.netcom.com in pub/amcgee for my "stuff")
> CORE/EIS: [amcgee@eis.calstate.edu] (Experimental system for education/tech)
> PeaceNet: [amcgee@igc.apc.org] (Best place for int'l development information)
> WELL:     [amcgee@well.sf.ca.us] (MAY be hosting African oriented conference)
> AfriInfo: [mcgee@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu] (Email/Finger for Black/African Info)
> BDPA BAC: [1-707-552-3314] to [Arthur McGee] (Co-Sysop. Lists are also here)
> DataBits: [1-213-295-6094] to [Arthur McGee] (BDPA L.A. Chapter Member/Mascot)
> CIS:      [72377,1351] (Meet me in TELECOM, EFFSIG, IBMBBS, and ISSUES)
> AOL:      [When will Black Enterprise, Emerge, Vibe, D&D, etc., be online?]
> Voice:    [1-310-320-BYTE] (Cute, huh? :-D  Only $10 for a one time fee)
> *
> *
> "The revolution will not be televised, but
>  the proceedings will be available online." ;->
> *
> (c)1993 Arthur R. McGee & Associates(AKA Africans Around the World). ;-)
> 
> 



**************************************************************************
Miles R. Fidelman                   mfidelman@civicnet.org
Executive Director                  91 Baldwin St. Charlestown MA 02129 
The Center for Civic Networking     617-241-9205 fax: 617-241-5064

Information Infrastructure = The Internet, Everywhere, for Everyone
**************************************************************************





From cap.gwu.edu!mstrait Wed Sep 22 16:19:17 1993
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	[nil "Wed" "22" "September" "1993" "16:16:17" "-0700" "Michael Strait" "mstrait@cap.gwu.edu " nil "80" "Re: Community Access list" "^Date:" nil nil "9"])
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Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1993 16:16:17 -0700
From:	mstrait@cap.gwu.edu (Michael Strait)
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Community Access list
Reply-to: mstrait@cap.gwu.edu



I've been meaning for some time to post an update about
CapAccess, our public access community network in Washington,
DC, to this list, but ....

Fortunately, Taylor Walsh, now our Executive Director, has
provided me a breather by writing the article reference in
the following announcement.  We are asking Meckler's permission to
put it on the net and will either do that  or put up a summary
soon.

Now I can just update this! 8-)


---------- Text of forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 20:47:29 PDT

Sender: Joe Ryan <JORYAN@SUVM.SYR.EDU>
Subject:   Internet Research Table of Contents

The following is the table of contents for the latest (V. 3 # 2
Summer 1993) INTERNET RESEARCH (formerly Electronic Networking:
Research, Applications and Policy):

Resource sharing and the networks -- Bernie Sloan (Guest Editor) p. 2

Opinion: How shared ARE our shared resources, anyway? -- Michael S.
           Hart p. 4

Broadband-ISDN: Personal connections to global resources -- Geradine
           M. Kaman p. 8

Developing the national communications and information infrastructure --
           Mitchell Kapor & Daniel J. Weitzner p. 21

The Blacksburg electronic village -- Joseph A. Wiencko Jr. p. 31

####################################################################
Development of a community information service: The national capital
           area public access network (CapAccess) -- A work in
           progress -- R. Taylor Walsh p. 41
####################################################################
Spreading the ILLNET: A distributed network for library resource
           sharing in Illinois -- Johan Zeeman & Dennis MacKinnon p.
           60

Resource Review: A pathfinder to core resources for network users
           -- Joe Ryan p. 69


INTERNET RESEARCH: ELECTRONIC NETWORKING, APPLICATIONS, AND POLICY
(IRENAP) is a cross-disciplinary journal that provides coverage of
the rapidly growing use of telecommunications networks to provide
information services and products.  The purpose of the journal is to
describe, evaluate, and foster understanding of the role and
applications of electronic networks.

The journal publishes papers and essays that describe research
findings related to electronic networks, that describe current and
potential applications of electronic networking, and that identify
and assess policy issues related to networking.  It also features
reviews and announcements of print and electronic resources of
interest. Authors may wish to discuss possible contributions with the
editor, Charles R. McClure <cmcclure@suvm.acs.syr.edu> School of
Information Studies, 4-206 Center for Science and Technology,
Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY 13244-4100.

For subscription information for INTERNET RESEARCH (ISSN 1066-2243)
contact Meckler Corporation <meckler@jvnc.net>, CompuServe
(7037,616), Applelink: Meckler 11 Ferry Lane West, Westport, CT 06880
Phone: (203)226-6967 Fax: (203) 454-5840 or Meckler Ltd., Artillery
House, Artillery Row, London SW1P 1RT, U.K. Phone: +44 (071) 976 0405


--
Michael J. Strait, Ph.D.                     202-879-9649 (voice)
Project Officer for Research and Evaluation  202-783-1036 (fax)
The Annenberg/CPB Projects                   mstrait@cap.gwu.edu (internet)
Corporation for Public Broadcasting          901 E St NW, Washington, DC 20004

From sfu.ca!jjespers Mon Oct  4 22:37:55 1993
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	[nil "Mon" "4" "October" "1993" "16:43:35" "-0700" "jjespers@sfu.ca" "jjespers@sfu.ca" nil "17" "Inter-community communications" "^Date:" nil nil "10"])
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Date:	Mon, 4 Oct 1993 16:43:35 -0700
From:	jjespers@sfu.ca
To:	cet-mg@esusda.gov
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com, h-rural@uicvm.uic.edu,
	ruralam@ibm.cl.msu.edu, ruraldev@ksuvm.ksu.edu, cpsr-nii@cpsr.org,
	freenet-adm@nptn.org, svp@eit.com, wvrk12-l@wvnvm.wvnet.edu
Subject: Inter-community communications

Hello,

My name is John Jespersen and I am writing an article on how 
useful information passes from one community to another and 
how this can be harnessed for community economic development.

In a portion of the paper I will also be looking at how computer 
networking may improve this peer relationship.

If you know of any sources of information on either of these two
topics that I should be looking at, would you please let me know
at my internet address.

Thanks,

John at jesperse@sfu.ca


From u.washington.edu!hhll Fri Oct  8 11:12:50 1993
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	[nil "Fri" "8" "October" "1993" "10:42:56" "-0700" "Catherine Holland" "hhll@u.washington.edu" nil "803" "Community networks and health education" "^Date:" nil nil "10"])
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Date:	Fri, 8 Oct 1993 10:42:56 -0700
From:	Catherine Holland <hhll@u.washington.edu>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Community networks and health education
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Last month the Washington Association of State Sexuality
Educators and Trainers (ASSET) held its annual meeting in
Seattle. ASSET's membership is composed of the state's Planned
Parenthood Affiliates, city, county, and state public health
educators, and various freelance and consulting trainers and
curriculum developers. 

We were invited to give two presentations. Steven did the
first one, along with Steve McCallister of the Snohomish
County Planned Parenthood, on information privacy in the era
of health care datamation/dataveillance. My talk was entitled,
"Envisioning Sexuality Education and Emerging Technologies".
It's emphasis was on the use of community networks to deliver
innovative and effective health and sexuality education, and
the implications and ramifications for the profession of so
doing.

Following is a transcript of the presentation portion of the
symposium. You may pass it along provided you cc: me. It is
avialable for archiving upon request. I welcome your feedback.

Thanks,

Catherine

You may also retrieve it by ftp from ftp.u.washington.edu,
cd /usr/ftp/pub/user-supported/horsehorse. The filename is
C-BINs6.1.txt

    ______________________________________________________
   |                                                      |
   |    HORSE HORSE LION LION, A Consulting Cooperative   | 
   |              "Information into Culture"              | 
   |                                                      | 
   |      Steven Hodas/Catherine Holland, Principals      |
   |                                                      | 
   |    hhll@u.washington.edu   VOICE/FAX 206.285.5975    |
   |______________________________________________________|

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Envisoning Sexuality Education and Emerging Technologies
   Delivered to the 1993 meeting of Washington ASSET

                          by 

       Catherine Holland, hhll@u.washington.edu 
         Copyright 1993 Horse Horse Lion Lion. 
                  All rights reserved. 



"Envisioning Sexuality Education and Emerging Technologies"
...hmmm. Kind of a daunting title for a talk to people whose
business is people, who thrive on human interaction and
personal connection. So I'm glad we've got so many brave souls
here, because what I want to talk about is really central to
communicating with people, to serving people, to helping
people make important decisions about their lives. I'm going
to speak for about forty-five minutes to give you some
background. We'll take a quick break, and then come back, I
hope, for some Q&A.

The reason I want to talk about our work in terms of emerging
technologies is that the tools we use and don't use to do our
jobs, define our jobs. They set the limits and the
possibilities of what we can do, of what we can even imagine
doing. 

Think about the telephone, for example, something we all take
for granted, that we've probably taken for granted since we
were old enough to focus that far in front of us. Now imagine
what your job would be like without a phone. Imagine trying to
get hold of the information you use everyday without one, or
setting up meetings, or making appointments. Would we come to
conferences if we couldn't call back to the office during
breaks, or call home in the evenings? When your clinic windows
get smashed, how would you get them replaced without being
able to call the window guy or the insurance company? When you
need advice, or input, or consolation and you need it fast,
how would you get it? All these things we take for granted,
all these large and small relationships are made possible as
we know them by the telephone. The phone for us today is a
very important window onto the world, a very important
facilitator of our social relationships.

What I'm getting at, and something I want you to keep in mind
during this session, is that a technology is not just a
machine, or even a machine at all. A technology is a whole
system of values and practices that support some activity of
ours. So the important thing about the technology of
telephones is not the buttons you press or the thing you hold
against your face or the wires in the phone. The important
thing is the way it lets you do things, to call whomever you
want and say whatever you want, and that other people
understand how to do it too and have pretty much the same set
of expectations about what we can use phones for.

A technology doesn't have to be a machine at all. This
conference is a technology, a technology for getting out
information and strengthening professional relationships. We
have other technologies for that kind of thing too, like
newsletters, or joint projects, or even schools. Safer sex and
abstinence are both technologies of protection, but the fact
that we see them as so different from one another points up
how technologies are defined by the human, social values we
embed in them, our assumptions about the world and our place
in it. Religion is a technology for the accumulation of
understanding and sense-making, for connecting ourselves with
one another as well as with something larger than us. So is
science, in a different way, but maybe not quite as different
as some people would have you believe.

I say all this because I want you to be open to the tremendous
relevance, even urgency, that what we're discussing has to
your roles as educators, trainers, and citizens. A lot of
people in the social services imagine for some reason that
technology is irrelevant to their work or worse, that somehow
the values of technology are actually hostile to their
concerns and their mission. Partly I think that perception
comes from the fact that often in our culture we as citizens
don't have very much say in what machines get developed or how
they're put to use. And so because we're not involved, the
machines end up being used to support things we don't believe
in, or whose use has consequences we find unacceptable. 

Just remember, though, that the issue is not the machines
themselves but how they're used, what values they support and
what values they undermine. Computers for example, as we heard
in the talk on privacy, can pose real threats to our privacy,
but they also offer the opportunity to protect us and all our
information with an ironclad anonymity that gets its strength
not from the laws of government but from the laws of physics.

And also, I want you to keep in mind this quote from Sir
William Preece, who was chief engineer of the British Post
Office in 1876. He said, "The Americans have need of the
telephone, but we do not. We have plenty of messenger boys."

How many of you have heard of the Internet? Good. How many of
you had heard of the Internet two years ago? Right. Since
January of this year there have been over 300 articles
published in newspapers and magazines on the Internet, the
information infrastructure or the "data superhighway." Last
year there were fewer than 20. This is a hot topic, and unlike
virtual reality, artificial intelligence, or robots in the
home it's actually here now as a presence in the lives of
16-20 million people around the world.

The Internet is a network of networks that can be used to
exchange mail, data, and video. It lets you carry on
screen-based conversations with dozens of people around the
world simultaneously, or use university supercomputers, or
download data from NASA, all from your home office, or
classroom. No one "runs" the Internet. There is no
headquarters, no policy-making board, except to set the
technical standards that allow all these machines to hook up
with one another. You get access to it by signing up with a
local provider whose system is connected to the net. You
follow the rules and policies of your provider, which vary
tremendously from place to place. 

Access to the net can be had for free, for the cost of a phone
call, or for anywhere from $5 to $50 per month, depending on
how you get it. Large companies, universities, and government
agencies have provided their people with access to the net for
years because it makes it easy and cheap for them to
collaborate with other people in their field. The net is
distance-insensitive, which means you can get files from a
computer in Australia as quickly and as easily as from a
computer across town. Once you're logged on there are no
long-distance charges, so that Australian file doesn't cost
any more either. Most people who pay for their connections pay
a flat fee every month for unlimited use of e-mail,
conferences, file transfer and everything else. Now that
everyone wants it, the phone companies, the cable TV
companies, and the on-line services like America On-line and
Compuserve are getting into the business of Internet access.
Starting next year in parts of Massachusetts you'll be able to
get on the net through your cable box.

I've pulled some numbers to try to give you a sense of just
how much people are using the net. The Internet is growing at
the rate of 10-15% every month. In 1981 there were around 200
computers connected to it. By 1985 there were 2000, and by
1989 160,000. Today, less than four years later, there are
more than 1.8 million computers connected to the Internet.
Usenet, which is the collection of news and discussion groups
on the net, receives about 425,000 articles every two weeks.
For those of you who never seem to have enough space on your
hard drives, imagine filling about 60 megabytes every day, or
more than 800 megabytes every two weeks. For those of you
without computers, that's the equivalent of about 200
full-length novels, every day. And that number doesn't include
e-mail, or file exchanges, or chatting, or any of the myriad
other activities that the net supports.

But why does this matter to us as citizens, as educators? Why
is trying to drink from this fire hose of information any
different from 500 channels of cable TV with nothing on worth
watching? In terms of stuff we're already familiar with, the
Internet is a lot more like the telephone than the television.
TV follows the broadcast model of one-to-many. Lots of people
listen to what one organization has to say. We can't really
use the technology of TV to talk to our friends or to talk
back to the TV station. The information flows one way. Even
public access cable, which lets anyone get on TV, is still
one-to-many. Since access to TV air-time is controlled by just
a few big companies, is very profitable, and is regulated by
the government, you don't see very much diversity of content
or opinion. Since millions of people are watching the same
stuff they have to shoot for the lowest common denominator.
That's what makes TV, TV.

The telephone follows a different model. Instead of
one-to-many it's many-to-many. Anybody can call anybody else.
We can say whatever we want. We can sing, we can do business,
we can talk to our moms, or we can have phone sex. With modems
and computers we can connect to other machines and exchange
stuff. Each time we pick up the phone we can use it for any of
these things, or all of them. The phone is a tool to help you
do all kinds of different stuff. TV is not. It always forces
you into the same passive relationship. The net is like the
telephone in that it can facilitate many different activities
and relationships, from the very passive to the very active.

But I'm not really here to talk about the Internet. Instead I
want to talk about one particular kind of technology that the
net makes possible, what I call the Community-Based
Information Network or, C-BIN. If the Internet is an
information superhighway, then C-BINS are like the small towns
along the road. Some people refer to them as "electronic
greenbelts" or "virtual villages." Whatever you call them,
they're designed to be places in which you spend time
teaching, learning, and interacting with other members of your
community.

The idea behind C-BINs is to provide resources and means of
communication that support the civic life of a community. They
provide electronic mail, library resources, discussion groups,
and a means to communicate directly with city government and
elected officials. A C-BIN might have a homework helpline, a
community events calendar, a listing of local merchants. They
can be run directly by city or state governments, by
non-profit volunteer groups, or, occasionally, by commercial
services. 

With the exception of those run by commercial services, access
to C-BINs is either free or very low-cost. Their operating
expenses are supported by donations, grants, and government
money, and special efforts are usually made to place terminals
in public places like libraries, schools, and social service
agencies so that people who don't own computers can
participate as well. In many cities the community networks are
connected to the Internet, giving their users access to other
community networks around the world, as well as to all the
other Internet resources. Today there are community networks
operating in twenty or so cities around North America in
places like Dillon, Montana; Youngstown, Ohio; and Victoria,
British Columbia, and C-BINs are in the works for Seattle and
Snohomish County.

Let me show you a couple of examples. I've brought along some
sophisticated visual aids, which my lovely and talented
assistant will now demonstrate. These are snapshots of
opening screens of a few community-based information networks
that were collected by Steve Cisler of the Apple Libraries of
Tomorrow project for a terrific paper he wrote on community 
networking.

The first one, which unfortunately didn't make it into your
packets, is from the Cleveland Free-Net. As you can see, the
metaphor used is that of a small town, with distinct places to
go for schools, libraries, news, social services, and access
to government. The Cleveland Free-Net was the first real
community network, and has served as a kind of a template for
the other Free-Nets that use its software. Although it may not
look very pretty, the advantage of its all-text interface is
that it can be accessed from any type of computer using the
most basic communications software.

Next up is a selection from Wellington, New Zealand. If you've
used a Mac or Windows, you'll recognize the metaphor of
folders and the documents they contain. The front window here
contains City Council information like by-laws, policy
statements, and election results. In the background you can
see the icons for information on Wellington's churches,
hotels, and kids' activities. Because this interface depends
on graphics you need a particular kind of software to get the
full benefit.

Next we've got a screen from the Cupertino CityNet down in
Silicon Valley. Notice the icons at the bottom for mail, news,
conferences, and help. In the middle of the screen you can see
the places to go for general information about the city's
history, demographics, meetings, and events. In the background
are places to go for discussions and public chats with other
users.

Lastly, I 've got a shot from a kind of hybrid
commercial-community network that's accessible from America
On-Line, which is a dial-up bulletin board service like
Compuserve or Genie and charges by the hour. Right now it's
not connected to the Internet, but you can use it to send
electronic mail over the net to millions of people who are not
America On-Line subscribers. This area in America On-Line is
sponsored by the San Jose Mercury Newspapaer and is basically
an expanded electronic version of the paper. In the center you
see the headlines, and off to the left the different areas or
sections like entertainment, sports, and classified ads.
There's a news library you can browse for research, and you
can search the current issue by keyword to find all stories,
say, that contain references to both peanut butter and
Venezuela. Below that is a communities section where you can
go for more detailed information on your particular
neighborhood. You can tell that this one has less of a "civic"
feel than the others, not because it's more slick, but because
its metaphor is the privately perused newspaper rather than
the shared community.


Okay. So now you know a little bit about the Internet, and a
little bit about community networks. What's the point? Why
talk about them here at a conference on family planning? Well,
for several reasons, some having to do with where we are today
and some having to do with where the world is going and the
positions we'd like to occupy in the midst of these changes.
First, information is vital to us because it's a big part of
our business. We gather, generate, and distribute information;
people come to us in great measure because we have the
information they want or we know how and where to get it. To
those who seek us out we are an information technology. If we
want to remain in this business we need to be aware of and
skilled with all the ways information is delivered. We need to
understand their implications for our profession and for the
groups and communities we serve. The role of face-to-face
counselling, lectures and brochures changes when they're not
the only or most accessible game in town.

I want to spend a bit of time talking about our relationships
to information because that's where our practice intersects
with the heart of C-BINs. We, as educators and counselors and
service and information providers, are involved with
information. It begins with gathering resources and culminates
in developing effective ways to serve our clients. On this
path we read newspapers and journals, seek out lectures and
conferences, wrestle with what we've read and heard. I may
have heard in passing that some people are using Glad Wrap
instead of dental dams to protect women and their partners
during oral sex. I may or may not pursue this tidbit, but if I
did, I'd want to know, first of all, is this true or just a
rumor. I'd probably call a few colleagues to find out if
they've heard anything, know of any references, have positions
on it. I'd track down any available research, and try to talk
to people who've made the switch, although I don't know how
successful I'd be on this step. After mulling this all over,
discussing it with friends and co-workers, I'd make a decision
about whether to incorporate this new information into my
teaching, counselling, or patient education. 

Some of these steps involve relatively more initiative and
agency on my part, and some of them will hit dead ends because
the people with the information don't happen to be in my
circle. With a C-BIN I'm likely to get my information more
directly, more completely, and more reliably because I can
post my questions to a newsgroup dedicated to safer sex for
women. Because the network of people coming together here is
so vast, there's little doubt I'd get some responses, and more
likely I'd be inundated with information and references.

This brings me to the other relationship to information that I
believe is fundamental to the work we do. Once we've taken in
the vast wealth of information available, worked it over, and
developed ourselves and our programs with it, we take our
ever-expanding folder of resources and devise programs to
educate other people. We order or design curricula, collect
articles, compose charts, create activities, and then take all
this stuff into classrooms, community centers and homes. The
manner in which we present our information ranges from
straight lecture to highly interactive projects like role
playing games, but it is mostly a program in which we lead and
our students follow. People approach us with questions, and we
answer them outright or get them resources in which the
answers are contained. We try to be responsive and
forthcoming, but we do occupy the position of gatekeeper; we
determine which information we believe will best answer those
questions. In essence what we do is information distribution;
we've gathered the information and now we're going to share it
with those who ask. 

So, why does that matter? In the current scheme of things
information gets passed along in relatively straight lines;
someone with a question poses it to someone with an answer and
hopefully receives the desired information. In this
relationship, one person has the information while the other
tries to get her to share it. This simple dialectic has
far-reaching consequences because the person who controls the
information makes choices, consciously or unconsciously, about
the content, delivery, and tone of her answer. She defines the
terms, crafts the lens, through which that information will be
understood. 

For example, if I begin a program on sexuality with all of the
dangers associated with sex- like sexually transmitted
infections, pregnancy, sexual violence, etc.- rather than
starting with a discussion of sex as healthy, natural, and
complex I've cast the topic in sex-negative terms from the
outset. I may in fact want my students to believe that sex is
dangerous, and so this serves my purpose. But for the
students, their reliance on me as the principal source of
information about sex leaves them with my rather singular view
of things. This is the model we generally see operating in
classrooms and, consequently, the mode most of our clients
carry with them to other walks of life. They're taught to
accept what I've told them, not to question it, and certainly
not to look further. They learn only what they're taught, not
what they discover for themselves. They're not sophisticated
consumers of information. I don't think we've always been
adept at teaching our clients how to get information from
multiple sources, how to look at it critically, or how to use
it in their day-to-day lives. By controlling people's access
to information either at the source or through the skills we
do or don't impart, educators ultimately have a profound
impact on the general levels of cultural and civic
participation. Traditional educational settings encourage
passivity. This, in turn, contributes to the lack of
involvement in community affairs on the part of so many
members of our society.

There are lots of things we can do with C-BINs that help us
get around these obstacles. For instance, we could coordinate
an on-line adolescent development program for parents of
teenagers or puberty-age kids. We could post weekly segments
on the changes young people undergo at these periods, the joys
and difficulties parents encounter with their children through
their teen years, how to be effective educators for their
children, and so on. Parents would be invited to post
questions and observations. We and the other participants
would respond to them, with the discussion circulating among
everyone involved.

Another project, one that shows how a new community can
develop through electronic exchanges, is the facilitation of a
discussion group for boys ages 12 to 18 on issues of male
responsibility in teen pregnancy. The moderator could put out
a notice on the network describing the forum, and invite
participants from all over the country. Provocative questions,
statements, or scenarios would be offered, and teen boys would
respond with their opinions, thoughts, or queries. This type
of format encourages openness because kids can ask and say
things they'd be reluctant to voice in person. As long as the
facilitator supports people exploring these issues, even if
their thoughts aren't always "correct," you'll have a place
where boys can really start to tease out the complexities of
this subject. Because of the age range and geographical
diversity of the participants there would be great differences
of experience and opinion which can serve to broaden and
enrich the values of those involved. Such a group can grow
readily into a new community, one founded on common interest
but strengthened by wide diversity. 

There are always a number of different ways any given set of
goals or information can be put into an instructional program.
We know now that sometimes a lecture makes sense, sometimes a
role-play, sometimes a brochure, sometimes a counselling
session. The same holds true for electronically-mediated
information. On community networks, for example, I could
choose to use a database, a real-time chat group, moderated
discussion groups, unmoderated e-mail, and so on. Each of
these has different characteristics, and brings out different
values and skills in the people who use them. The flexibility
of the system and the variety of available modes are useful
for us as educators because we can get our students to
practice certain qualities, like reflection or spontaneity,
simply by choosing one tool over another. 

For example, if I were running a program designed to teach
teenage boys to be less aggressive and more reflective, I
might run it over e-mail because that medium encourages
deliberation while keeping the discussion fresh. If I were
working with adolescent girls to help them be more assertive
about their limits I might run it in a live chat forum, which
encourages spontaneity and provides a safe space in which to
practice being assertive, practice controlling conversations.
Rather than just preaching these values at my students, trying
to work them in from the outside, I can embed them in the
technologies of communication they use, so that every act of
their self-expression becomes an exercise in practicing those
values, trying them on, getting comfortable with them. 

Let's look at another example, a person who's interested in
finding out the rates of HIV infection among women within her
community and how they compare to the national figures. With a
C-BIN at her disposal she could do this with ease from
terminals at her home, local library, or school. She wouldn't
need to rely on a teacher to give her that information; she
has direct access to it herself through a number of electronic
pathways, like the local health department, the Centers for
Disease Control, the Women's Health Network, etc. 

I want to develop this person a bit so we can look at why
C-BINs would be appealing to all of us now, and where they can
take us in the future. Let's say this person is a young
African-American woman, about 17 years old, and she's noodling
around on-line one day, perhaps sending her friend an e-mail
about an upcoming party, and she stumbles across a pointer to
AIDS resources. She's mildly curious so she looks in further
and finds that list splitting off into an assortment of more
specific areas, like epidemiology, pediatrics, gay-lesbian-bi
youth, and so on. She settles on the Women and AIDS topic and
starts poking around in there. There are statistics, articles,
projects devoted to a wide array of topics, including the
impact of HIV disease on African-American women nationally and
locally. This young woman isn't surprised to learn that HIV is
having different impacts on women of different races. Her
curiosity, joined with the ease of access to data that the
network provides, encourages her to explore the reasons why
these differences exist.

Now, this young woman, let's call her Emma, is not an anomaly.
She's displaying qualities and using skills that are
increasingly common among young people today. She's at ease on
a computer, in an electronic world, and she's learned to use
an important means of communication broadly by adapting it for
both her social and cognitive use. Most young people haven't
yet learned to rigidly compartmentalize their lives, so things
learned in one context often spill over into others. The
beauty of working with them is the incredible array of uses
they create for tools we've designated as singularly
appropriate for work or school or social settings.

Emma is doing another thing young people do all the time...
looking into things she's curious about, things that affect
her world. But this HIV stuff is not a burning passion of
hers, so if more effort was necessary to explore it, she might
have left it at the "I wonder..." level. But exploring on a
CBIN is so easy, just a few keystrokes and a little reading,
and her "I wonder" stretches out to become a chain of "Oh
reallys". The ease of access to information and people
inherent in computer networks should not be
underestimated...Emma's world broadens and deepens because so
many other worlds were right there, open to her.

Emma is a tremendous resource, not only for her own
communities, but also for us. On the simplest level she's
learning more and more, and can educate her peers formally or
informally. On the next level, she's learning how to get
information herself, and what those skills open up for her.
For us as educators, Emma is a person who can guide and shape
our involvement in her community because she has her own sense
of the needs. She can act as an engaged participant in both
her own world and ours. Imagine the increased impact of a
program like CAPE, for instance, if its participants
incorporated information retrieval and assessment skills into
their peer education efforts.

C-BINs offer communities the opportunity to more actively and
directly define their educational needs by providing an
information infrastructure that is accessible on a truly local
level. Such a system, by its very nature makes its users
function as both information recipients and producers. For
example, with direct and ready access to the infant mortality
rate among babies born to teenage Latina girls in King County,
anyone within that community could use their network to raise
awareness of the issue, to communicate with other like
communities, to discover what's being done elsewhere to
confront the problem, and to initiate interventions. All of
this can be done from within a community rather than being
done for them by outsiders, however benevolent they may be.
The ease of access to information, coupled with the
interactive nature of community networks, encourages inclusion
and civic involvement by grounding action within the
community.

Now, how do community networks change our professional roles
and their relationships to each other, and what are the deeper
consequences of these changes? C-BINs get rid of the notion
and practice of a single information source. Information
becomes widely and cheaply available from multiple origins.
They do this by establishing access points for the public at
citywide terminals, in schools, or in homes that allow people
to link into the services that a municipality has provided on
its network. In addition, with broader connections to other
networks nationwide the information available through a C-BIN
multiplies immeasurably. This increase in the number of
information pipelines has the effect of diffusing the
authority of any single source. There's more than one place to
find out what you want to know, and as a result many more
facts and many more interpretations come into circulation. The
accessibility of a wide range of opinions, ideas, and data
provides people with the support to shape their positions much
more critically than is possible if you're relying on a single
person or place for your information. 

C-BINs redefine the idea of community by basing it on shared
interest or affiliation, rather than on common place. Instead
of people's bonds growing, if at all, out of the geographical
settings they more or less reluctantly share, they emerge from
the willing exchange of ideas and opinions that a networked
forum relies on. Take the case of a large, urban high school.
The people involved with this school come from a vast range of
backgrounds and have opinions and values that vary
accordingly. Because the school has an interest in serving as
many of its different constituencies as it can, or at least in
outraging as few of them as possible, it will shape its
programs to meet the least controversial common denominator. A
program on prevention of sexually transmitted infections will
be so vague or single-minded- like saying abstinence is the
only protection we can support- as to be virtually useless.
And still the school will miss. There will be those who are
scandalized that their child learned anything about sexuality
in school, and those who will be disgusted that their child
isn't learning anything useful about sexuality in school. 

C-BINs address these problems by enabling people to come
together around common interests and values, rather than
trying to organize them around common zip codes. Thus,
parents, educators, and administrators who are interested in a
comprehensive program to teach young people about sexual
health can participate in a forum devoted to this issue on
their community network. No one there is a captive audience,
and everyone there is interested in making a contribution.
Network pathways offer educators a viable alternative to the
schools, thereby undoing the stranglehold that the threat of
controversy seems to sustain in many formal educational
settings.

C-BINs foster active seeking and discovery on the part of
young people for information that is otherwise limited within
their communities. They extend the use of a medium with which
kids feel comfortable into many more areas of their lives.
They can link up civic, school, home, and business computing
resources, so that these artificial boundaries dissolve, if we
want them to. They provide youth with a place to search that
is within their control, and whose resources are equally
available to everyone regardless of age. This can be essential
in locations where health care providers are scarce, libraries
are inadequate or non-existent, or community values discourage
making controversial material available. A young man with
questions about his sexual orientation could discover an
on-line support group for gay, lesbian and bisexual youth with
participants spread all over the country. He can forge ties
with a new community, a virtual neighborhood, which can offer
him the support and openness lacking in his physical
community. Such connections provide people a path out of the
isolation they may be experiencing, for whatever reasons, in
their own municipalities.

C-BINs offer people accessible sites for exploration of
sensitive topics where voluntary anonymity is easily
maintained. This is especially useful for young people who are
looking at sexual development, identity, expression, etc. but
who don't always have the tools or the support to do this in a
face-to-face situation. There is research that supports our
observation that many students are more comfortable getting
feedback from a machine than from a teacher, because of how
kids feel adults judge them. Now, such findings obviously
raise some unsettling implications for us as educators and
adults, and I'd certainly be the last to say that we shouldn't
work on this. But in the meantime, it seems sensible to me to
increase the number of venues available to young people where
they feel free to ask sensitive questions, and receive
complete and accurate answers at their own pace, on their own
terms.

In addition to creating new communities of interest, C-BINs
also operate to support and strengthen existing geographical
communities by providing an easy means of involvement for
everyone. This is significant when we consider who, within a
given community, is marginalized because of constraints on
their mobility: mothers with limited access to child care,
individuals confined to their homes because of disability,
older people who are no longer ambulatory, young people with
transportation difficulties, and so on. These people would be
able to participate in community affairs through home, school,
or neighborhood terminals that linked them all up to the
network. By re-integrating community members whose absence we
may have lamented but been unable to overcome, we can use
C-BINs to strengthen existing neighborhoods, towns, and
cities. Such networks enable participation by many more
segments of the population, and deepen our own resources by
incorporating the talents, knowledge, and skills of those who
have long been omitted or prevented from actively shaping
their communities.

Community networks give us exciting ways of working with
existing communities, but also offer possibilities for
building and supporting new communities, ones built on common
interest instead of common addresses. As educators we'll have
an opportunity to weave ourselves into these actual and
virtual neighborhoods and, in so doing, to become truly a part
of the communities we want to serve. This hasn't always been
easy for a number of reasons; our commitment to working within
the schools has subjected us to oversight that often ends up
watering down the messages and information we'd like to give
to students. This, in turn, cuts down the credibility we have
with young people because we're not able to tell them anything
terribly useful. In addition, when we've chosen to try to work
outside of the educational system, it's often been difficult
to find a central entry point into a community. When we do,
our programs are sometimes not encouraged because they haven't
grown out of the needs expressed by the community, but rather
out of our outsider's ideas of what the community needs. We
may not be far off, but there can be difficulty selling a
project if it isn't created collaboratively.

C-BINs can re-define the very notion of community, a concept
that has traditionally been bound, to varying degrees, by
geography or narrow affiliation. These networks enable the
emergence of virtual communities, no longer founded on
location, profession, organization. Instead, people who share
common interests can come together electronically to exchange
information, ideas, projects that effectively create new
communities. Individuals interested in discussing and
exploring efforts to reduce violence in schools can meet in
their own forum. An isolated, rural community with its first
known case of AIDS can build ties to other communities
affected by HIV to learn about the disease, how to support
people who are infected, and how to educate their community.
High school students interested in practicing abstinence could
begin a support and discussion group with other young people
around the country. Each of these points of interest offers
the participants new associations, new neighborhoods, based on
shared concerns but encompassing a diversity of experience and
background that is not usually found in physical communities.

C-BINs also offer us a great deal as professionals. On the
simplest level they provide a medium for us to disseminate our
numerous brochures, pamphlets, and fact sheets far more
cheaply and easily than we can do today. Educators from
different agencies across the nation can readily collaborate
on a project to jointly educate parents and young people about
adolescent sexual development. Counselors from sites in three
distant cities could team up to co-moderate an on-line support
group for teen parents. We can send and receive electronic
mail between offices, from agency to agency, and to and from
private practitioners. We can establish mailing lists for
colleagues interested in any imaginable topic, like support
programs for kids, or public policy on RU486, or health care
job openings. We'll have immediate access to statistics,
research data and findings, and experts in a variety of areas.
Networks offer agency administrators an easy means of
distributing position papers and health alerts, or of
coordinating statewide lobbying efforts.

Finally, C-BINs can play a crucial role for our organizations
as they evolve under health care reform. There's a lot that's
unknown about what will shake out, particularly in service
delivery. But what's clear is that information, and the
ability to create and disseminate it effectively will be more
important than ever before. Preventive medical care, which is
based on information and education, seems likely to be central
to any plan that is adopted, and in fact health education is
specifically identified as a key component of the national
reform plan just announced by the administration. Easy and
inexpensive information delivery is going to be highly valued
within this developing system. C-BINs offer us the chance to
plant ourselves squarely in the middle of this delivery
stream, and to ensure a vital position for us as
organizations. 

As health care reform reshapes the entire world of medical
practice, agencies that currently provide direct patient care
may no longer do so. All of us need to think about what roles
we might or might not be playing in the future. We have our
own mandate for re-invention: if we don't take it we will
likely find ourselves squeezed out of both the service and the
information businesses by powerful cooperatives with a strong
interest in education and preventive care, and who were able
to see the writing on the community-information wall more
clearly than we. We need to make ourselves much more relevant
to the lives of the communities we serve. There are important
questions about organizational survival which C-BINs can
address. Community networks are a powerful tool for expanding
our educational efforts into communities we hadn't previously
been able to reach, as well as into domains that have a newly
emerging need for strong information providers. 

If we try to hang on to our status as gatekeepers of
privileged information, we will lose. There are very few
secrets that are worth anything any longer, in fact there are
very few secrets at all. We need to begin to understand and
shape our own development in the "information age" so that we
can make smart and effective contributions to the changes
taking place as a result of the rapidly expanding access to
information. 

I want to end with a quote from Bruce Sterling, a science and
science-fiction writer who recently spoke before the National
Academy of Science's Convocation on Education and Technology.
He was speaking of the need to get classroom connected to the
net, which some people refer to as cyberspace, but I think his
words apply to us as well. He said, "I know something
important about cyberspace. It doesn't matter who you are
today -- if you don't show up in that mirror in the next
century, you're just not going to matter very much." Our work
is important. We have to show up in that mirror. Even though
we have plenty of messenger boys.

Thanks for having us, and thanks for coming. See you in ten
minutes, after the break.


From igc.apc.org!commem!carl Mon Oct 11 11:06:59 1993
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	[nil "Mon" "11" "October" "1993" "11:02:22" "-0700" "carl%commem@igc.apc.org" "carl%commem@igc.apc.org" nil "29" "Re: Community Networks and health education" "^Date:" nil nil "10"])
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Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1993 11:02:22 -0700
From:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
cc:	hhll@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Community Networks and health education

I don't know how many of you read the recent lengthy posting by Catherine
Holland (hhll@u.washington.edu), but in addition to its main purpose in
discussing how moving communities on-line affects health education, I think
it was a very good statement of the majority view on the promise of the
Internet and community networking.  As such, I wanted to raise a couple of
reservations I have.  Of course, I'm interested in your reactions.

One theme of the article is the replacement of geographical communities by
communities of interest.  I think this is somewhat overplayed.  Face-to-face
contact and shared real-world experiences are too important to human
relationships to be fully supplanted by electronic relationships with
people in the far corners of the world.  But what these systems CAN do is to
help you make new contacts in your geographical community, and to feel more
free to explore these contacts given the relative anonymity of the situation.

Which leads to my next comment: the article made a good case for the importance
of the availability of anonymity in electronic communications.  I agree.  But
I think it's not at all clear how this is going to evolve in the future.  My
guess is that we need to take a strong stand to preserve and extend the
acceptablility of anonymous communications.

Finally, although I think things are moving in this direction, the fluidity
envisioned in moving between one information source and another is not quite 
there yet.  In particular, there is a distinction between one-way and two-way
communications services that probably shouldn't exist -- it should always be
possible to react, publicly or privately, to what you are seeing.

-Carl Farrington


From u.washington.edu!hhll Mon Oct 11 11:47:23 1993
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Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1993 11:41:05 -0700
From:	Catherine Holland <hhll@mead.u.washington.edu>
Sender: hhll@u.washington.edu
To:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Community Networks and health education
Reply-to: Catherine Holland <hhll@mead.u.washington.edu>
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On Mon, 11 Oct 1993 carl%commem@igc.apc.org wrote:

> One theme of the article is the replacement of geographical communities by
> communities of interest.  I think this is somewhat overplayed.  Face-to-face
> contact and shared real-world experiences are too important to human
> relationships to be fully supplanted by electronic relationships with
> people in the far corners of the world.  But what these systems CAN do is to
> help you make new contacts in your geographical community, and to feel more
> free to explore these contacts given the relative anonymity of the situation.

Carl, 

I agree that virtual communities will never replace physical communities. 
Rather, I think, they'll augment and strengthen them. As I indicated in 
the talk, 
     "In addition to creating new communities of interest, C-BINs
      also operate to support and strengthen existing geographical
      communities by providing an easy means of involvement for
      everyone."

> Which leads to my next comment: the article made a good case for the importance
> of the availability of anonymity in electronic communications.  I agree.  But
> I think it's not at all clear how this is going to evolve in the future.  My
> guess is that we need to take a strong stand to preserve and extend the
> acceptablility of anonymous communications.

This is a really interesting and important topic. The current technologies
for insuring anonymity over e-mail, listserv, or usenet (short of
sophisticated hacking of your mailer) often put off many recipients of
anonymous communications. Recently, in the communet mailing list, someone
posted a question from an anonymous remailer. The question was germane,
polite, and completely in keeping with the character of the list. Yet
because it had an anonymous id rather than a name in the "from:" line,
people were made uncomfortable by it and would not reply. 

The notion of "community" has a strong public component to it. But 
they're not synonymous. We all pretty much accept the idea of anonymity 
in topics we consider "sensitive" or which we feel place someone  at some 
risk. But we're far less comfortable with the general right to privacy 
that includes the continual choice of whether or not to reveal ones' self 
as we go about our daily business. As a society we constantly confuse 
privacy, confidentiality, and anonymity, and our default supposition is 
that any of those are for people with something to hide or to protect.

It would be useful to bring together some sociologists and some engineers 
to brainstorm the question of how to provided non-identifiable channels 
of communication that were not tagged with hostile or defensive 
characteristics.


> Finally, although I think things are moving in this direction, the fluidity
> envisioned in moving between one information source and another is not quite 
> there yet.  In particular, there is a distinction between one-way and two-way
> communications services that probably shouldn't exist -- it should always be
> possible to react, publicly or privately, to what you are seeing.

Absolutely.

> -Carl Farrington

What specific features- interface, content, policy-wise, or anything else 
-would people want to see in the community-health/education portion of a 
community network?

Catherine

    ______________________________________________________
   |                                                      |
   |    HORSE HORSE LION LION, A Consulting Cooperative   | 
   |              "Information into Culture"              | 
   |                                                      | 
   |      Steven Hodas/Catherine Holland, Principals      |
   |                                                      | 
   |    hhll@u.washington.edu   VOICE/FAX 206.285.5975    |
   |______________________________________________________|





From csos.orst.edu!newmant Mon Oct 11 12:54:38 1993
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	[nil "Mon" "11" "October" "1993" "13:50:47" "-0700" "Thomas Andrew Newman" "newmant@csos.orst.edu " nil "61" "Re: Community Networks and health education" "^Date:" nil nil "10"])
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Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1993 13:50:47 -0700
From:	newmant@csos.orst.edu (Thomas Andrew Newman)
To:	Catherine Holland <hhll@mead.u.washington.edu>
cc:	community-access@parc.xerox.com, communet@uvmvm.uvm.edu
Subject: Re: Community Networks and health education

Catherine,

>
>What specific features- interface, content, policy-wise, or anything else 
>-would people want to see in the community-health/education portion of a 
>community network?

I have a hard-copy copy of a set of decision trees the local university
health center uses. They help you decide whether or not to consult a doctor
about your cold or headache or other borderline ailment. The health center
told me I could publish them on Peak, our community information service. I
am going to discuss with our gopher editor the possibility of putting them
on our gopher, using gopher's menu hierarchy. 

E.g., you choose "headache" from a menu of other symptoms. The headache
menu asks you where the headache is:

1. back of the head
2. behind your eyes
etc.

Each of these options leads to either more multiple choice questions or a
text file telling you what to do (home remedies, non-prescription drugs,
whether or not to see a doctor, etc.). And a way to send a message to the
health center or the health topic editors on the communet.

Decision trees could be used for other kinds of common problems in many
other areas:
- AIDS
- child-rearing
- law
- money
- property tax assessments
- housing
- k12
etc.

The information could be solicited from the appropriate professional group:
nurses, doctors, teachers, city/county officials, etc.

People will sometimes ask for information only if they can remain anonymous.

>Catherine
>
>    ______________________________________________________
>   |                                                      |
>   |    HORSE HORSE LION LION, A Consulting Cooperative   | 
>   |              "Information into Culture"              | 
>   |                                                      | 
>   |      Steven Hodas/Catherine Holland, Principals      |
>   |                                                      | 
>   |    hhll@u.washington.edu   VOICE/FAX 206.285.5975    |
>   |______________________________________________________|


Tom
------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Newman
Internet: newmant@csos.orst.edu
Compuserve: 73057,475


From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!chris Sat Oct 16 11:25:25 1993
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	[nil "Sat" "16" "October" "1993" "10:34:01" "-0700" "chris" "chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us " nil "92" "Santa Cruz Wide Area Net status" "^Date:" nil nil "10"])
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From:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (chris)
To:	community-access@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
cc:	chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (chris)
Subject: Santa Cruz Wide Area Net status

Hi,

It's been a while since I bragged about how advanced our little
community is, so here's the latest.

	1. A group has come together to form an Internet co-op,
	   to provide cheap Internet access. They are setting
	   up a leased line to a provider in silcon valley. They
	   are then providing access to locals here in SC County.
	   So far, they have signed up 10 people for PPP over 14.4KB
	   V32 lines. Cruzio has signed up for 128KB over ISDN.
	   The cost through the coop is $70 per month for 14.4KB.
	   Cruzio is paying $280 per month for our 128KB link.

	2. Cruzio hosted an "electronic candidate's forum" for
	   the 28th Assembly District primaries. We contacted
	   each of the candidates (10 of them), with offers of
	   free access to USENET so they could post their campaign
	   info directly to the regional groups in the 28th dist.
	   For those who weren't able to connect directly, we 
	   asked them to fax material which we then transcribed onto
	   the net. The info was posted to scruz.politics and ba.politics.

	   1 of the candidates, John Laird, actually used his
	   net account, and another 7 candidates used the fax method.
	   2 candidates declined to participate at all.

	   This exercise was very powerful. John Laird managed to
	   start up some very thoughtful discussions on prop 174
	   (school vouchers), which we helped along by posting the
	   full text of the initiative to facilitate a discussion
	   based on facts. 

	   The forum managed to provide quite a bit of information 
	   from the candidate's (the "horse's mouth"...) while
	   bypassing the media filters of tv and the papers.

	   Cynic tho I am, this demonstrated how it is possible
	   for useful political discussions to take place on USENET.

	3. I continue to be amazed at the powers of our MUD on Cruzio for
	   community building. People who haven't already should read
	   Pavel's DIAC92 paper. I can attest that his observations
	   on relationships and human behavior are generally correct.
	   I've been pondering how sometimes some very intense personal
	   relationships can come about and evolve in the MUD, and think
	   there is much to be said about the notion that "language is
	   a virus" in such a limited bandwidth comm environment. I would
	   be interested to hear more about the social dynamics of the
	   JUPITER system at Xerox Parc... I suspect that they would
	   differ due to the increased amount of comm bandwidth provided.
	   (video and sound)

	4. I want to add my voice to a vote for having VR communities
	   related to the local geography of RL communities. My
	   resoning on focusing Cruzio on serving the SC County area,
	   and on promoting the WAN, is that relationships based
	   purely on VR interactions are prone to upset, noise and 
	   "jamming". Thus, if we focus on a VR community localized 
	   to the RL community of Santa Cruz County, it is easier for 
	   people to:
		A. "meet" for the first time in VR, and if they want,
		   to then meet in RL.
		B. people who already know each other in RL to use
		   VR to _supplement_ their RL relationship.
	   Since the local cyberspace also overlaps the RL
	   community, it is easy for people to meet face to face.
	   Whereas, it is difficult to hop on the plane and fly to 
	   Sweden to have dinner with an email pal who in RL
	   doesn't live in SC county.

	   That's why I look at something like the Cleveland Freenet
	   as less than perfect. People jack in from all over the
	   world, diluting the "Cleveland-ness" of the net.

	   One thing we're going to do with the Internet coop is
	   provide some SC County local IRC channels. We're also
	   going to start a WWW database of local history, events,
	   maps, etc. to act as a "Santa Cruz County Hitchhiker's
	   Guide". While one goal is to provide general world wide
	   Internet access out from SC county, we are also focusing
	   on better ties within the community with the improved
	   infrastructure.

	Well, of course there's more, but I am opposed to email
	messages that are greater than 3 screens of text, and this
	one is even longer...

	ccn
-- 

	          chris@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us

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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 13:18:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Miles R Fidelman <fidelman@civicnet.org>
To: nii_agenda@civicnet.org, com-priv@psi.com, communet@uvmvm.bitnet,
     ace-mg@esusda.gov, ednet@nic.umass.edu, mtc@rcnvms.rcn.mass.edu
Subject: NATIONAL STRATEGY FOR CIVIC NETWORKING

Hi Folks,

Last week we issued a major vision paper titled "A National Strategy for
Civic Networking: A Vision of Change."  We distributed about a hundred
copies at the ACE meeting on 10/4, and have been receiving pretty positive
response.

With the announcement of the impending Bell Atlantic / TCI merger, a lot
of this becomes quite timely.

Here is a copy of our press release and the executive summary of the
document.  The full document is available on our gopher server in both
text and Microsoft Word formats -- the gopher is "CCN - The Center for
Civic Networking" on the list of all gophers in the world. You can also
ftp to world.std.com and look in the directory /ftp/amo/civicnet.

Miles Fidelman
Executive Director
The Center for Civic Networking

-------------
PRESS RELEASE

CONTACT:
Richard Civille
202-362-3831
rciville@civicnet.org

THE CENTER FOR CIVIC NETWORKING ANSWERS PRESIDENT'S CALL,
RELEASES NATIONAL STRATEGY FOR CIVIC NETWORKING

Washington,  D.C.,  October  6,  1993   The  Center   for   Civic
Networking  today released a blueprint for applying the  National
Information Infrastructure to achieving broad public  benefit  in
the   areas   of   civic  revitalization,  economic  development,
community development, and delivery of government services.

The  Clinton  Administration, in it's recently released  National
Information  Infrastructure: Agenda for Action, identifies  Civic
Networking  as  a  high  priority  application  of  the  National
Information  Infrastructure - on the  same  level  as  electronic
commerce,  agile  manufacturing, life-long learning,  and  health
care.   In  an  accompanying Executive Order,  President  Clinton
established  the United States Advisory Council on  the  National
Information  Infrastructure  and charged  it  with,  among  other
tasks,  advising  the Secretary of Commerce  on  "strategies  for
developing  and  demonstrating  applications  in  areas  such  as
electronic  commerce,  agile manufacturing,  life-long  learning,
health care, government services, and civic networking."

The Center for Civic Networking answers the President's call with
A  Vision  of  Change:  A National Strategy for Civic Networking,
saying:

"A   National  Information  Infrastructure  (NII),  designed  for
democracy,  will help our country work smarter with  an  informed
citizenry more fully engaged in life, liberty and the pursuit  of
happiness.   Americans  will enjoy more  efficient,  less  costly
government.   The  NII  can help produce high  quality  jobs  and
educated  citizens to fill them.  We will pave a road  away  from
poverty and promote life-long learning.  Such a promise fulfilled
will  improve  the  public  health,  and  cultural  life  of  our
communities and revitalize our civic institutions.  This  is  the
civic promise of information infrastructure - not simply a "video
dial-tone," 500 channels of movies, home shopping, or interactive
video games."

Miles  Fidelman,  Executive Director  of  The  Center  for  Civic
Networking, says "The NII is not about technology nor is it about
entertainment.  It is about recreating civic and commercial  life
for  the  21st  century.  It is about health care  and  education
reform,  improving  the  delivery of  government  services  while
reducing    the   national   debt,   it   is   about   industrial
competitiveness."

The  Center  for  Civic Networking is a non-profit  organization,
based  in Boston and Washington, D.C., that promotes broad public
benefits  of  the  emerging national information  infrastructure.
The  Center brings together expertise in large-scale computer and
network systems, community-based applications of computing,  non-
profit  management,  community development, architecture,  public
policy,  and  democratic participation.   The  Center's  Programs
focus   on  framing  a  national  vision  for  civic  networking,
developing  a  policy framework that supports  civic  networking,
developing  and supporting model civic networking  projects,  and
assisting in the technology transfer needed to achieve the broad-
based benefits of civic networking.

The   Center   seeks  out  and  helps  develop  civic  networking
initiatives.    These  are  both  public  and  private   efforts,
sometimes  in  partnership, that seek to apply telecommunications
and   information  technology  in  some  form  to  further  local
community  and  economic development goals, government  and  non-
profit   service   delivery,  citizen  participation,   and   the
revitalization of civic institutions.  The Center  believes  that
these  grass-roots initiatives can help shape State  and  Federal
policies that will help achieve good social and economic outcomes
for   our  communities.   The  Center's  Sustainable  Development
Information  Network (SDIN), supported in part by  a  grant  from
Apple  Computer's  Library  of  Tomorrow  program,  will  provide
library-based  public  access  to  large  databases  of   visual,
geographic   and   statistical  data  that  can  broaden   public
participation  in  regional  planning  across  New  England.   In
Cambridge, The Center co-organizes the Cambridge Civic Forum,  an
on-going   city-wide  citizen  dialogue  to  develop   innovative
solutions  for a vibrant and healthy 21st century, in partnership
with community and business groups and individual citizens.   The
Civic  Forum  will use diverse media, including cable television,
radio,  newspapers, and electronic networks to sustain broad  and
ongoing civic participation in shaping the future of Cambridge.

      At its April 1993 conference, >From Townhalls to Local Civic
Networks:  Democratic  Participation for the  21st  Centery,  The
Center  for Civic Networking was the first organization to  bring
citizens  and  the  public interest community together  with  the
Clinton  Administration to discuss communication  policy  issues.
As  a  direct result of this watershed conference, Administration
and   agency   staff   organized  the   Americans   Communicating
Electronically (ACE) initiative in June.  The members of ACE come
from  the White House, government agencies, the House and  Senate
and  citizens  at large.  ACE is dedicated to the development  of
thousands of Interactive Citizen Participation Centers around the
country.
                                
            A National Strategy For Civic Networking

In  A Vision for Change, The Center for Civic Networking provides
specific   strategies   for:   leveraging  existing   information
infrastructure  as  a way to deliver broad-based  civic  benefits
today;  applying  information infrastructure  to  improve  public
access to government and to reduce the Federal deficit; for using
information    infrastructure   to   move   toward    sustainable
communities;  and,  for  bringing  the  benefits  of  information
infrastructure to the poor.

A  Vision  for  Change  calls  for establishing  explicit  public
interest   benchmarks   to   insure  that   Federal   information
infrastructure  programs achieve measurable  public  benefit.   A
Vision for Change provides a specific agenda for policy research,
legislation,  regulatory reform, and funding that  will  maximize
the   broad   public   benefit   of  the   National   Information
Infrastructure.

A  Vision  for  Change notes that as the television,  cable,  and
computer industries converge, "many regulations once effective in
protecting  the public interest are either no longer  working  or
are  seriously impeding new market and service innovations,"  and
goes  on to recommend that the anticipated restructuring  of  the
Communications  Act  of  1934  must  "map  important   principles
embodied  as  common carriage, public, education  and  government
(PEG)  access, municipal sovereign police powers over  rights-of-
ways,    intellectual   property,   interoperability,    spectrum
reservations  and  prior  restraint  prohibitions  into   a   new
convergent  media  regime."   A  Vision  of  Change  goes  on  to
recommend  that "the Administration should propose  and  Congress
pass  a  non-binding Resolution for Symmetrical Regulation  (that
would)  recognize that the segmentation of regulatory  models  is
breaking  down  in  an  era of converging  media  industries  and
digitized  content and endorse a general finding that all  public
and  private  sectors  be  treated  fairly  and  equitably  while
preserving  key regulatory features that flow from Constitutional
first principles that benefit all people."

Richard  Civille,  Director of The Center for Civic  Networking's
Washington,  DC  office,  says, "We voted  for  change.   Is  the
country  being taken for a ride down a dead-end data superhighway
or   will   our  democracy  be  revitalized  through  a  National
Information     Infrastructure?     The     Administration     is
preparing legislation that may make the difference - and overhaul
the  antiquated Communications Act of 1934..  Yet, before any new
bills  are  introduced, the Administration and  Congress  have  a
solemn  obligation to stand and deliver to the American people  a
Resolution  clearly proclaiming the need to reform communications
policies,  and  a  commitment  to  protect  Constitutional  first
principles and our traditions of equal opportunity and fair play.
We  call  for a Resolution for Symmetrical Regulation  -  because
democracy is shaped by communications and information.

A  Vision  for  Change  concludes: "A true  National  Information
Infrastructure has the potential to save our society hundreds  of
billions of dollars through fundamental change in our conduct  of
day-to-day  business and our relationships with  government.   If
the   NII  is  built  for  everyone,  it  can  help  reverse  the
disintegration of our cities, our economy and our  society.   The
manner  in  which  the NII is developed will have  a  long  range
effect  on  the  distribution of opportunity and  wealth  in  the
United States.  The value of activities in the United States that
could  be  affected  by networked information  to  the  home  for
health,  governance  and  citizenship, informal   education,  job
training,  literacy, numeracy, and English as a  second  language
could  be in the range of several hundreds of billions of dollars
annually," and asks the question "can we afford the costs of  not
putting in place visionary public interest policies today."
                                
                            -- END --

-----------
A NATIONAL STRATEGY FOR CIVIC NETWORKING: A VISION OF CHANGE
The Center for Civic Networking
October, 1993

Table of Contents

Executive Summary                                        i

1.0 A Civic Vision of the National Information
Infrastructure                                           1
     1.1 Revitalizing Local Economies                    1
     1.2 Improving Services, and Reducing Costs of
     Government                                          2
     1.3 Revitalizing Civic Institutions and Public
     Debate                                              2
     1.4 Reducing Poverty and Changing Welfare As We
     Know It                                             4
     1.5 Reducing Health Care Costs, Improving
     Prevention and Detection of Disease                 5
     1.6 Bringing All Our Children's Education into the
     21st Century                                        6
     1.7 Reducing Social Costs of Defense Cutbacks,
     Layoffs, and Plant Closings                         7
     1.8 Reducing Costs of Pollution, Road Maintenance
     and Child Care                                      8

2.0 Grand Challenges                                     11
     2.1 Leveraging Investments in Existing
     Infrastructure                                      11
     2.2 Public Access and Deficit Reduction             12
     2.3 Public Participation in Sustainable
     Development                                         13
     2.4 Information Infrastructure and Benefits to the
     Poor                                                15

3.0 Civic Networking Policy Agenda                       17
     3.1 Research                                        18
          3.1.1 Survey Individual Use of Networked
          Information                                    19
          3.1.2 Use Pilot Projects to Collect Data       19
          3.1.3 Fund NII Economics, Equity and Literacy
          Research                                       20
          3.1.4 Symmetrical Regulation Research          20
          3.1.5 Economic Modeling of the Internet        21
          3.1.6 Benchmarking Public Interest Outcomes    21
     3.2 Legislation and Regulation                      22
          3.2.1 Broad-Based Public Hearings              22
          3.2.2 Resolution for Symmetrical Regulation    23
          3.2.3 Communication Policy Must Support
          Sustainable Development Goals                  23
          3.2.4 Redirect Open Source Intelligence
          Assessments                                    23
          3.2.5 Assess Environmental, Social and
          Economic Impacts                               24
          3.2.6 Determine Universal Access and
          Federal/State Preemption                       24
          3.2.7 Collocation Tariff for Flat-rate Data
          Service                                        25
          3.2.6 Public Participation in State
          Telecommunications Strategic Planning          25

Conclusion                                               27



                      Executive Summary




  In an Executive Order issued on Sept. 15th, 1993,
  President Clinton established a United States Advisory
  Council on the National Information Infrastructure (NII)
  to assist the Secretary of Commerce on national
  strategies including "developing and demonstrating
  applications in areas such as electronic commerce, agile
  manufacturing, life-long learning, health care,
  government services and civic networking."  The President
  defines the NII as "the integration of hardware, software
  and skills that will make it easy and affordable to
  connect people with each other, with computers, and with
  a vast array of services and information resources."

     * This paper establishes a vision and national
       strategy for civic networking.  The vision of civic
       networking shows citizen groups, non-profit
       organizations and local government using information
       infrastructure for broad public benefit.
     
     * This strategy outlines four Grand Challenges that
       public interest communication policy must address, a
       set of policy goals and a detailed agenda for
       action.


The Administration will develop major legislation during
1994 that will lead to the overhaul of the Communications
Act of 1934, possibly as early as 1995.  This legislation
may also redefine Universal Service for the information age,
an unparalleled opportunity to guarantee that the essential
information needed to participate as an informed citizen in
a democracy will be available to anyone, regardless of
background or ability to pay.

If organized swiftly,  grassroots civic networking
initiatives will shape public interest communication policy
at the State level, establishing precedents for Federal
policy during a narrow window of opportunity that will
likely close by 1996.  The window is open now because the
communications industry is restructuring, a broad bipartisan
consensus to reform national communications policy is
emerging, and the Administration is favorable to the input
of public interest groups in this arena.  The window will
likely close by 1996 because the communications industry
"shake-out" will have completed and agendas to reshape
antiquated communication policies will have been set.
Furthermore, there is no guarantee that the present
Administration will be reelected.

The time to act is now.   The Administration, Congress,
State legislatures, and municipal officials have a solemn
obligation to fully understand the civic promise of the
National Information Infrastructure, and to swiftly reframe
the debate which is currently being driven by the
communications and media industries.

The national strategy for civic networking , presented here,
is based on this premise:

     * The value of activities in the United States that
       could be affected by the individual use of and
       public access to networked, imaged information -- in
       areas such as public health, formal and non-formal
       education, arts and recreation, civic and community
       participation, emergency services, sustainable
       development, small business opportunity, individual
       privacy, poverty, literacy, numeracy, job training,
       and access to employment markets -- could be in the
       range of hundreds of billions of dollars annually.

This paper will present evidence that such socioeconomic
benefits are not only a reasonable assumption, but
measurable.  Quantified, such socioeconomic benefits can
form a basis to benchmark positive public interest outcomes
of policies that establish the framework for the National
Information Infrastructure.  Congress, in particular, must
understand and respond to the economic and social costs to
our society if ubiquitous access to this national multimedia
nervous system is impeded by limited visions of telephone
and cable companies motivated to maintain entrenched
positions in a rapidly evolving  marketplace.  The
implications for deficit and long-term debt reduction cannot
be overemphasized.

The Center for Civic Networking is a non-profit organization
serving civic networking practitioners and promoting
policies, products and services that can support the
sustainable development of local economies and communities
in the 21st century.  This policy paper is an outgrowth of a
conference produced by the Center in April, 1993 entitled
">From Townhalls to Civic Networks."  This meeting brought
Administration officials and agency staff together for the
first time with citizen practitioners from around the
country and with the non-profit communications policy
community.  Participants from this conference, and many
others, have contributed, commented, assisted in writing and
supported the development of this paper from earlier drafts
to this present form.   Many of the projects described and
policy proposals contained in this paper reflect the most
current thinking in the rapidly growing arena of civic
networking and public interest communications policy.  As
such, this paper represents a growing consensus.

What is Civic Networking?

Grassroots initiatives using information infrastructure to
provide civic and community services are influencing new
State policies which can in turn shape Federal communication
policy for the 21st Century.   With accelerating social
mobility, political representatives serving millions rather
than thousands, long commutes to jobs not connected to local
communities and increased cultural diversity, traditional
community forums for public deliberation have eroded.  Civic
networking can revitalize them.  A definition of civic
networking encompasses:

     * The transformational power of information
       infrastructure to create opportunities, new public
       works and new public spaces for the 21st century.

     * The "loadbearing" power of information
       infrastructure to support and even revitalize civic
       institutions and Local economies in sustainable ways
       that replace layers of bureaucratic hierarchy and
       deplete fewer natural resources.

     * The public's power to use information infrastructure
       to recapture the nearly lost art of democratic
       decision-making and community building -- the
       essential discourse and debate around important
       issues that informs before the vote, where the
       public shares views, and learns tolerance.

     * A new interdisciplinary ethic among information
       architects, community activists, organizers and
       planners, public policy analysts, facilitators and
       engineers who, with the public, can reforge the
       democratic partnership between citizens and the
       government they own.

A Vision of Civic Networking

A National Information Infrastructure (NII), designed for
democracy, will help our country work smarter with an
informed citizenry more fully engaged in life, liberty and
the pursuit of happiness.  Americans will enjoy more
efficient, less costly government.  The NII can help produce
high quality jobs and educated citizens to fill them.  We
will pave a road away from poverty and promote life-long
learning.  Such a promise fulfilled will improve the public
health and cultural life of our communities and revitalize
our civic institutions.  This is the civic promise of
information infrastructure -- not simply a "video dial-
tone," 500 channels of movies, home shopping, or interactive
video games.

A National Information Infrastructure can revitalize the
American economy and civic culture; it can become an
aqueduct irrigating arid new land from which new enterprise
and community life blossom and flourish, by:

     * Revitalizing Local economies,
     * Improving the delivery of government services, and
       reducing costs of government,
     * Revitalizing civic institutions and public debate,
     * Reducing poverty and changing welfare as we know it,
     * Saving billions of health care dollars through
       prevention and early detection of disease and by
       streamlining health care administration,
     * Bringing all of our children's education into the
       21st century regardless of income, location or
       background,
     * Reducing social costs of defense cutbacks, layoffs,
       and plant closings, and,
     * Reducing costs of pollution, road maintenance and
       child care.

Public Interest Grand Challenges

Public interest communication policy for the National
Information Infrastructure must face four Grand Challenges:

     * We must leverage our investments in existing
       infrastructure.  The public Internet is the model
       for a National Information Infrastructure.  It is
       already in place and serving over 30 million people.
       It is a robust and dramatically expanding model of
       what the NII can and should be and a base to build
       upon.
     

     * We must look at public access to the National
       Information Infrastructure as an extremely powerful
       economic weapon to reduce the Federal debt -- a
       bedrock notion as fundamental as free expression and
       the open marketplace of ideas.
       
     * We must use the National Information Infrastructure
       as a critical tool that helps provide for the
       sustainable development of local economies and
       communities.

     * We must recognize the choice we have as a society,
       to design the National Information Infrastructure as
       a road away from poverty to increased opportunity
       for all.  The greatest  benefits of the National
       Information Infrastructure may flow, if correctly
       designed, to those who are poor, to the information
       have-nots.

These four grand challenges lay the foundation for a
specific public interest policy agenda that must work to
lock-in budget, policy and regulatory frameworks, by the mid-
term election in 1996, to promote broad public benefits at
the regional, State and Local level.

Public Interest Communication Policy

The Center for Civic Networking's approach to achieving
public interest communications policy goals is four-fold:

     * We will gather new socioeconomic research data on
       how Americans use networked information at home and
       at work by promoting U.S. Census and other
       significant surveys of individual use of networked
       information.

     * We will establish public interest communications
       policy benchmarks to assess the data, guide policy
       formulation and measure outcomes.

     * We will identify, develop and support civic
       networking projects at the state and local level
       that show promise of influencing public interest
       goals nationally.

     * We will promote progressive state and local policy
       models that could influence Federal policy.   We
       will actively promote such policies state-to-state
       in a way that shapes Federal communication policy to
       ensure positive social outcomes in areas such as
       civic participation, public health, sustainable
       development, education, job training, program
       diversity, and the arts.









From cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us!netcomsv.netcom.com!world.std.com!fidelman Sat Oct 16 15:57:20 1993
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 13:28:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Miles R Fidelman <fidelman@civicnet.org>
To: nii_agenda@civicnet.org, com-priv@psi.com, communet@uvmvm.bitnet,
     ace-mg@esusda.gov, ednet@nic.umass.edu
Subject: Regulatory Reform for Convergent Media

Hi Folks,

With all the talk about convergent media and networks, the
reality seems that the major corporate players are converging
first -- the impending Bell-Atlantic / TCI merger being the most
recent case in point.  The convergence of networks will probably
happen a lot later.

It strikes me that if we (the public) are going to have any say
at all in what the new network environment looks like, we have a
narrow window to think about developing a regulatory regime to
govern the transition to a convergent network.  Otherwise we will
simply be spectators to a battle of titans.

So.... I suggest a new topic of discussion:  What would a
"convergent regulatory regime" look like - short of the lowest
common denominator of total deregulation?  What principles should
we retain from existing regulatory regimes for telephone, cable,
utilities, etc.?  How can we integrate those into a common
regulatory regime that balances the interests of users and
vendors, and of Federal, State, and Local jurisdictions (some
term this "symmetric regulation")?  How do we insure that
electronic networks - which have the nature of quasi-public
spaces where we conduct civic and commercial life - do not become
totally controlled by private interests?

[note: if you've looked at our just-released vision paper "A
National Strategy for Civic Networking: A Vision of Change,"
you'll see a strong call for just this kind of regulatory reform,
and a call for Congressional and State resolutions establishing
symmetric regulation as a basis for rewriting the Communications
Act of 1934]

---------------
As a starter, I suggest that there are several key overarching
issues to be considered:

i. who pays  for it all -- including the question of how do we
retain the benefit of public and private investment in existing
infrastructure?

ii. how do we achieve universal service? [note: universal service
also includes the notion of ability to originate material -- a
given in the telephone world, but requiring support in the
television, cable and possibly data worlds]

iii. how do we maintain freedom-of-speech and privacy
protections?  prior-restraint and intellectual property issues
also factor in here.

iv. how do we ensure universal interconnectivity and
interoperability?

---------------
I also point to some historical and current models for different
sectors that we can draw upon for answering these questions:

The airlines:

     i.the aircraft industry was largely fueled by World War II,
       while the airline industry was seeded by Federal air mail
       contracts -- priming the pump for a privately financed
       and self-supporting industry
     
     ii.    for many years, regulation and subsidies supported
       air service for rural communities -- with most of this
       now supplanted by the deregulated, competitive
       environment (with arguable results)
     
     iii.   n/a
     
     iv.    the Federal government remains responsible for
       overall management of the air traffic system and aircraft
       safety
     
The Interstate highway system:

     i.built with Federal and State money, supported by gasoline
       taxes and other fee-like mechanisms
     
     ii.    largely a non-issue, though pedestrians and horse
       owners might argue
     
     iii.   n/a
     
     iv.    largely a non-issue except that the placement of
       on/off-ramps remains a major issue at the local issue
     
Electric and other Utilities:

     i.mixed financing:  private utilities, municipal utility
       companies, Federally funded rural electrification, etc.
     
     ii.    mostly an issue of financing and distance-
       insensitive rate structures (though companies often have
       to pay for building access facilities)
     
     iii.   n/a
     
     iv.    <anybody have information about how the national
       power grid is managed?>
     
Telephone Network:

     i.almost all private funding
     
     ii.    a long history of Federal and State regulation, and
       cross subsidies to provide universal service at lifeline
       rates for residential customers and cross-subsidies to
       keep rural rates the same as city rates
     
     iii.   common carriage is the key concept here
     
     iv.    the early phone "system" did not have the concept of
       universal interconnection and interoperability, and it
       was a long journey to the system we have today where we
       expect every phone to be able to reach every other phone
       despite there being 100s of phone companies operating
       different parts of the system (and millions of owners of
       telephones, PBXs, private networks, etc.) -- first, it
       took the "Kingsbury Commitments of 1913," creating the
       regulated AT&T monopoly, to allow a major player to buy
       up and integrate most of the then-separate phone
       companies and systems -- then, as we split up the
       monopoly (the Carterphone decision, the MCI battles,
       Telenet and the other Value Added Networks, and then the
       Bell System split-up), we created a regulatory regime
       that mandates a level playing field for inter-network
       interconnections, defines interconnection standards,
       defines how to distribute charges, etc.
     
Cable TV:

     i.almost all private funding
     
     ii.    Federal and Local regulation that both provide
       access to telephone and utility rights-of-way, and
       provide local governments with both control over rights
       of way and the ability to negotiate funding for PEG
       (public, education, government) services out of the
       revenue stream; also the cable act mandates resale of
       some portion of cable capacity
     
     iii.   protection for 1st amendment rights apply to public
       access programming, though pending legislation may make
       cable operators liable for programming (e.g. obscenity)
       which could lead to the ability to censure public access
       programming and programming on leased channels
     
     iv.    very limited inter-connection and interoperability
       of cable systems; industry mechanisms only (e.g. Cable
       Labs) -- could be a very big issue
     
COMSAT and Corporation for Public Broadcasting:

     i.government-created private organizations -- COMSAT as for-
       profit, CPB as non-profit
     
     ii.    address the needs for quasi-public support of a
       variety of activities -- in the case of CPB, there is a
       recognition that there is a public interest need to
       support classes of pre-competitive and non-competitive
       content producers -- this need is likely to continue even
       when network access costs get cheap -- the cost of
       production goes well beyond just air/network time
     
     iii.   ????
     
     iv.    ????
     
The Internet:

     i.like the airlines:  the government stimulated the
       industry and the initial networks, but it has become
       mostly self-supporting -- ARPANET and MILNET were/are
       totally government funded, CSnet was government funded
       but designed to become self-funding within 5 years (and
       it did) -- of the 16,000 or so networks in the Internet,
       all but about 20 are the internal networks of
       participating organizations, while of the 20 or so "glue"
       networks that tie the others together, they are largely
       self-supporting based on user charges -- over 50% of
       networks/users are commercial, most of the backbones are
       operated privately, and most new users are private -- a
       good example of a small government investment stimulating
       both an industry and major infrastructure development
     
     ii.    a big problem -- access is close to universal and
       comparatively cheap for major institutions (cost per
       desktop at MIT is around $20/month, of which $19 goes for
       internal infrastructure) -- but comparable small user
       access (24-hour, IP, high speed) is around $1000/desktop
       for a single-desktop site
     
     iii.   no formal models, largely a matter of custom and
       community pressure
     
     iv.    key to the Internet from the beginning has been the
       notion of universal interconnectivity and
       interoperability in an environment of large numbers of
       independent operating entities -- semi-formal
       coordinating bodies (FNC, IAB, IETF)
     
     -----------------
Drawing on the best points of these historical precedents, I
suggest the following as a starting point for a convergent
regulatory regime:

     i.     who pays:  I would suggest that the airlines and
       Internet are good models to build on -- government
       stimulation followed by privatization and private
       investment -- key issue:  there are billions of dollars
       now invested in the Internet (most of it private dollars
       invested in internal networks and computers), how do we
       insure that this investment isn't flushed down the toilet
       in a world dominated by telco and cable giants who seem
       to want to rebuild a national infrastructure from
       scratch?  We're also likely to need some equivalent of
       the rural electrification program to serve rural areas.

     ii.    universal service:  I suggest that this must be
       affirmed as a key requirement.  Telecom. are becoming
       increasingly central to daily life.  There is a critical
       equity issue associated with universal service.  Cross-
       subsidies, universal service funds, cable PEG
       regulations, CPB, provide some good models to draw on.  I
       suggest that this could best be handled by a national
       requirement with state/local selection of mechanisms (as
       suggested in S.1086) -- reaffirming municipal sovereignty
       over rights-of-way, and building on current cable
       contract models might be an approach here.  Another key
       issue here is focusing on equity in data network access -
       - notably by focusing some attention on how to link the
       existing Internet to local loop carriers in ways that
       provide equitable Internet access for smaller users.

     iii. freedom-of-speech, etc:  Common Carriage is a great
       starting point.  There are also issues of copyright in
       the network environment.

     iv. interconnectivity and interoperability:  I suggest that
       we should affirm the model of universal interconnectivity
       and interoperability in a multi-vendor environment (a
       first principle of the Internet, and a hard-one situation
       for the telephone system).  Internet practice, and telco
       regulations seems like good starting points.  If at all
       possible, we should avoid repeating the chaos of the
       early telephone years (multiple phone companies in each
       city, no interconnection).  The telephone network for
       voice, and the Internet for data seem like good
       operational cores to build on.  There seems to be a need
       for some form of regulatory/coordinating authority that
       is a cross between the FCC and the IAB.

------------------
So..... comments, additions, alternate models??

Anybody out there want to collaborate on an article that
summarizes the results (Marvin Sirbu maybe)?

Miles


**************************************************************************
Miles R. Fidelman                   mfidelman@civicnet.org
Executive Director                  91 Baldwin St. Charlestown MA 02129 
The Center for Civic Networking     617-241-9205 fax: 617-241-5064

Check out our gopher server:  
CCN - The Center for Civic Networking
on the list of all gopher servers in the world.

Information Infrastructure = The Internet, Everywhere, for Everyone
**************************************************************************






From igc.apc.org!commem!carl Mon Nov  1 21:39:56 1993
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Date:	Mon, 1 Nov 1993 21:35:52 -0800
From:	carl%commem@igc.apc.org
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: ACE

I'm passing this along as potentially interesting.
------------
>From uucp Sun Oct 31 19:40 PST 1993
>From freenet.victoria.bc.ca!pgordon  Sun Oct 31 17:04:55 1993 remote from cdp.igc.org
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From: pgordon@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Peter Gordon)
Message-Id: <9311010109.AA25038@freenet.victoria.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: ACE
To: freenet@freenet.victoria.bc.ca
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1993 17:09:21 -0800 (PST)
Cc: ud793@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clyde Forrest), cfarrington@igc.org
In-Reply-To: <9310300647.AB27141@freenet.victoria.bc.ca> from "Gary Shearman" at Oct 29, 93 11:49:59 pm
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So, what I want to know is are these ACE folks actually going to
provide the MUCH NEEDE FUNDING to local civic/community networks
or are the just going to gather information endlessly while slowing
the progess of the folks (like ourselves and all the other freenets)
who are actually DOING SOMETHING?

Peter

Sorry for including the text, but read it over, just WHAT
exactly are these guys proposing.  We really don't need to
investigate this issue any more than it already has been.
And we sure don't need another "clearing house" of information;
or another mailing list for that matter!
> 
> >Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 08:40:25 EDT
> >Errors-To: news@freenet.carleton.ca
> >Errors-To: news@freenet.carleton.ca
> >Reply-To: can-freenet@cunews.carleton.ca
> >Originator: can-freenet@cunews.carleton.ca
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> >Precedence: bulk
> >From: aa127@Freenet.carleton.ca (Garth Graham)
> >To: Multiple recipients of list <can-freenet@cunews.carleton.ca>
> >Subject: ACE
> >X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0b -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
> >Status: O
> >
> >
> >>From TBLAKE@hr.house.gov  Wed Oct 27 10:07:57 1993
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> >Message-Id: <HS00.TBLAKE.890800100093300FHS00@HOUSE.GOV>
> >Date: 27 Oct 1993 10:00:10 EST
> >From: "T.BLAKE" <TBLAKE@hr.house.gov>
> >Subject: VIEWPOINT EDITED VERSION
> >To: aa127@freenet.carleton.ca
> >
> >Garth more info.  The paper has been well received at the
> >White House.  Where do we go from here?
> >  Its anybody's guess.
> >Regards,
> >Ted Blake
> >tblake@hr.house.gov
> >CC: T.BLAKE
> >TO: INTERNET.JGILL
> >FROM: HR.DALBISTO         POSTED: OCT 26, 1993 AT 5:47 PM  221 LINES
> >SUBJECT: Viewpoint Version 6 - edited copy 10/26/93 5:16pm
> >
> >       THE DEVELOPMENT OF A COMMUNICATIONS NETWORK PROGRAM:
> >      BETWEEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE AMERICAN PUBLIC
> >
> >______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >In a recent press release, concerning The Freedom of Information Act
> >(FOIA), President Clinton stated that the FOIA is a vital part of the
> >participatory system of government.  He further stated that the statute
> >was enacted based upon the fundamental principle that an informed
> >citizenry is essential to the democratic process and that the more the
> >American people know about their government the better they will be
> >governed.  Mr. Clinton concluded by strongly encouraging the use of
> >electronic information systems to enhance public access to government
> >information.  These statements are consistent with the White House
> >Office of Management and Budget (OMB) Circular No. A-130 document, which
> >promotes the application of information technology to improve the use
> >and dissemination of government information by Federal agencies.  They
> >are also consistent with Vice President Al Gore's Report of the National
> >Performance Review (NPR) which recommends the use of information
> >technology to improve customer service, to integrate service kiosks, and
> >to implement a government-wide electronic bulletin board system.
> >
> >In a similar effort of openness, the construction of an advanced
> >National Information Infrastructure (NII), a seamless web of
> >communications networks, computers, databases, and consumer electronics
> >is in motion, including the establishment of a much needed group,
> >Americans Communicating Electronically (ACE).  ACE membership is diverse
> >and represents private and public organizations and individuals who wish
> >to promote interactive communications between federal agencies, state
> >and local governments, private businesses, public libraries, public
> >schools, rural cooperatives, public and private universities, community
> >arts and theater,voluntary associations, job training services, and
> >health care organizations with the application of information
> >technology.
> >
> >In order to accomplish the development of interactive communications
> >between federal and local governments and communities, ACE is
> >recommending the issuance of an Executive Directive assigning
> >responsibility to all Federal Departments and Agencies for the
> >establishment of information access programs to help create and foster
> >an "inter-active citizen-government communications system".  ACE does
> >not recommend a new layer of bureaucracy.  ACE is however, urging
> >Federal departments and agencies to fully adhere to the OMB A-130
> >circular utilizing existing funds and resources and, to respond to a new
> >culture with new directions and a commitment to openness in government.
> >
> >GOALS OF THE INFORMATION ACCESS PROGRAMS
> >
> >The goals of the information access programs would be to foster and
> >facilitate interactive communications between the public and their
> >government, and to broaden public participation in the development of
> >government communications policy.  Citizens would be provided with
> >access to a wide range of public databases containing electronically
> >stored information accessible through an electronic gateway.
> >
> >NATIONAL ADVANCES IN INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY
> >
> >Recognition of the nation's advances in computer science and technology
> >is vital for future prosperity, national and economic security,
> >industrial production, and scientific advancement.  However, further
> >research and development, expanded educational programs, improved
> >computer research networks, and more effective technology transfer from
> >government to the American people are necessary for the United States to
> >reap fully the benefits of high-performance computing.  All Americans
> >have a stake in the construction of an advanced National Information
> >Infrastructure (NII), a seamless web of communications networks,
> >computers, databases, consumer electronics that will allow citizens to
> >access vast amounts of information through their personal computers.
> >The development of the NII can help unleash an information revolution
> >that will change forever the way people live, work, and interact with
> >each other.  With the principles and objectives of the NII in mind,
> >federal departments and agencies should promote technological innovation
> >and commit research programs and grants to help develop the applications
> >needed to establish and maintain an electronic gateway to provide online
> >access to federal government electronic public information.
> >
> >To fulfill the NII vision of making the vast quantity of government
> >information available to the American people, it is imperative that a
> >coordinating body be established to secure a balanced public-partnership
> >and effective agency information management.  Initially, the
> >coordinating body, in cooperation with the federal government membership
> >of the NII Task Force, would encourage the community to be responsible
> >for the development of networking technologies.
> >
> >INFORMATION LOCATOR SYSTEM
> >
> >ACE recommends the development of strategic plan to promote the
> >coordination and establishment of a standard agency based Information
> >Locator System to help the public access a wide range of  databases,
> >inventory of publications, library services/systems, databases, bulletin
> >boards, multi media systems, clearinghouses, and hotlines.
> >
> >DELIVERY OF SERVICES
> >
> >The coordinating body would promote the development of inter-active
> >Citizen Participation Centers and Kiosks where citizens could get
> >information to revitalize local economies, form partnerships, mobilize
> >the resources of state and local governments, boost public voluntarism,
> >and allow citizens to communicate with the Executive Branch, Congress,
> >and federal agencies.
> >
> >COMMUNITY-BASED CITIZEN DEVELOPMENT/FREE CIVIC COMMUNITY NETWORKS
> >
> >With the participation and support of federal departments and agency
> >information access programs, the coordinating body could support
> >community-based citizen development of free civic/community networks
> >with a focus on creating broad-based community participation and
> >opportunities.  In time, this would lead to the innovative development
> >of nation-wide community computer systems and use of the national
> >communication technology for economic development opportunities.
> >Citizens could learn new issues, gain a sense of accomplishment, build
> >new relationships and develop evidence that every individual matters.
> >In addition, the coordinating body would  foster and promote
> >understanding of the social benefits to be gained from community-based
> >inter-active communication applications.
> >
> >COMMUNITY AND GOVERNMENT COOPERATION
> >
> >Community and government cooperation is critical to the success and
> >balance of this major undertaking.  The participation and contribution
> >of federal staff resources would ensure a more useful information flow
> >with greater ease to providers of free community networks, citizens,
> >information architects, community activists, public policy analysts,
> >facilitators, and administrators through computer-mediated
> >communication, such as; email, bulletin boards, electronic conferencing
> >that forms a direct link between the public and government, which is the
> >centerpiece of ACE.  Finally, the coordinating body would be responsible
> >for conducting periodic studies to gauge the information needs of the
> >public and compiling an annual report of the findings and goals of the
> >organization.
> >
> >__________________________________________________________
> >References:
> >
> >The National Information Infrastructure: Agenda for Action, U.S.
> >Department of Commerce (Washington, D.C.): September, 1993
> >
> >Creating a Government that Works Better and Costs Less, The Report of
> >the National Performance Review, Office of the Vice President,
> >(Washington, D.C.) September 1993
> >
> >Helping People and Communities in the Information Age: The Morino
> >Institute, The Morino Foundation: (Great Falls, Virginia) September 1993
> >
> >A National Strategy for Civic Networking: A Vision of Change; The Center
> >for Civic Networking: October, 1993, (Charlestown, Massachusetts)
> >
> >Community Computing and the National Public Telecomputing Network;
> >August, 1993 Dr. Thomas M. Grundner, President: The National Public
> >Telecomputing Network, (Cleveland, Ohio)
> >
> >Federal Information Resources Management (Circular A-130) Revision
> >Notice: Office of Management and Budget, (OMB), Office of the
> >President,: (Washington, D.C.) July, 1993
> >
> >ACE Vision Statement: Americans Communicating Electronically,
> >Washington, D.C.: September 1993
> >____________________________________________
> >
> >All critiques, suggestions and recommendations are welcome. Please send
> >to:
> >Ted Blake, U.S. House of Representatives, House Information Systems,
> >Ford HOB, Room 643, Washington, D.C. 20515, Voice Mail: 202.225.9276
> >Fax: 202.226.3482
> >e-mail: tblake@hr.house.gov Subject: VIEWPOINT  Version:6 4:00pm
> >October 27, 1993
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >ABOUT AMERICANS COMMUNICATING ELECTRONICALLY (ACE)
> >
> >_____________________________________________
> >
> >
> >ACE is a team of volunteers both private and public citizen dedicated to
> >open access to information and learning from every home and community
> >across the nation.
> >
> >Who Are ACE Members
> >
> >The pioneering members
> >of ACE included the White House, Department of Agriculture, U.S. House
> >of Representatives, National Archives, Department of Commerce, Defense,
> >Education, Energy, Environmental Protection Agency, U.S. Senate,
> >Government Printing Office, General Services Administration, Department
> >of Health and Human Services, Interior, Justice, Labor, Transportation,
> >National Science Foundation, Small Business Administration, numerous
> >associations, community-based public groups, universities and colleges.
> >
> >What Kind of Information is Available from ACE
> >
> >The ACE experiment is coming online in stages.  During stage one,
> >selected agencies in the Departments listed above will participate.  A
> >single electronic mail address will be used to receive incoming messages
> >from citizens.  These messages will be forwarded electronically to the
> >appropriate ACE agency contact for action.  Citizens will receive
> >responses either electronically or through conventional means within "48
> >hours" of their request.
> >
> >During stage two, a directory of U.S. Government agencies and online
> >databases which can be accessed directly by electronic mail will be
> >accessible by citizens.  Also available online, will be frequently asked
> >questions, policy and issue papers, and speeches.  Citizens will be able
> >to browse at leisure.
> >
> >Future stages will build upon learning experiences.  Final plans to
> >pilot test "Interactive Citizen Participation Centers" are currently
> >underway in local communities where citizens can electronically access
> >U.S. Government information when they shop or visit local libraries.
> >
> >To Join ACE
> >
> >To join ACE, send an electronic mail message to:
> >letters@ace.esusda.gov
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-- 
> >        Garth Graham                    aa127@freenet.carleton.ca
> >    <<< NGL/CANIS (Community Access Network Information Services) >>>
> >        Box 86, Ashton, Ont., K0A 1B0                613-253-3497
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gareth R. Shearman                     shearman@freenet.victoria.bc.ca     
>                                                                            
>                          
>                                         aa001@freenet.victoria.bc.ca
> 
> 
> 


From igc.apc.org!bcsnpap Mon Nov  1 23:29:01 1993
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	[nil "Mon" "1" "November" "1993" "23:25:44" "-0800" "Peter Miller" "bcsnpap@igc.apc.org" nil "78" "BCS Community Technology Publication Available" "^Date:" nil nil "11"])
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Date:	Mon, 1 Nov 1993 23:25:44 -0800
From:	Peter Miller <bcsnpap@igc.apc.org>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
cc:	eff@eff.org
Subject: BCS Community Technology Publication Available

Boston Computer Society Social Impact/Public Service Publication 
Available
------ -------- ------- ------ ------------- ------- ----------- ---------

The 44-page November 1993 issue of IMPACT, the Boston Computer 
Society's social impact, nonprofit assistance, and public service 
publication, contains lots of community telecommunications material, 
both about what's happening and from online mailings and 
conferences: 

* Michael Stein on "Aether Madness: Nonprofits Enter Cyberspace" 

* The statement of seven democratic public interest 
  telecommunications principles generated by Telecommunications 
  Policy Roundtable and the Center for Media Education (CME), an 
  introduction to the principles, info about CME and the 66 
  organizations who signed on for the October 26th press conference.

* The Center for Civic Networking's National Vision and Strategy

* Dilbert in cyberspace, and and other print and online resources 
  including a number of the EduNets.

* On IGC/PeaceNet/EcoNet winning this year's CPSR Award, and 
  more info about CPSR.

Other feature articles include:

* The lead article on "TecsChange and the Caravan to El Salvador" by 
  Aram Falsafi, a journey last March which saw the welcoming party 
  for the materials and technology delivery turn into a nonviolent 
  demonstration which closed down the National Assembly.

* "Technology and Community," Gary Chapman's keynote panel 
  address at the 3rd New England Computers and Social Change 
  Conference, an update of the conference, the BCS Social Impact 
  Group monthly program, and the January '94 Conference at MIT 
  on Unemployment and the High Tech Revolution.


* A special center insert on "Community Computing Center News and 
  Notes," with information about the Playing to Win network of 
  community computing centers, an edited selection from the 
  Handbook for Future Center, the Community Technology Lab at 
  Capital  Children's Museum in Washington DC, and articles about 
  computer programs and resources for the homeless in Boston.

* A summary report on projects in San Antonio, Dallas, Baltimore, 
  Oakland, and Boston which won the five REACH Awards, the 
  computer industry's first year acknowledgement of community 
  technology programs, organized by Ziff-Davis and the Association of 
  Personal Computer User Groups (APCUG), at this year's spring 
  Comdex in Atlanta.

* An overview of ITRC/CompuMentor in Chicago, news from 
  CompuMentor/SF, a listing of members of the Technology Resource 
  Consortium, and an update on the BCS Nonprofit Assistance Program 
  and other public service news.

* * * * * * * * * *

A large number of subsized subscriptions are already supported, and 
there are a limited number of additional copies available for $5 which will be
distributed on a first-come, first-serve basis.  Send check made out to BCS to:

Marlene Archer
Public Service Coordinator
Boston Computer Society
1 Kendall Square
Cambridge, MA 02139
617/252-0600 x3312
msa@world.std.com

~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*
Please repost.

~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*


From world.std.com!fidelman Tue Nov  2 13:40:58 1993
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	[nil "Tue" "2" "November" "1993" "13:36:41" "-0800" "Miles R Fidelman" "fidelman@civicnet.org" nil "46" "Re: Re: ACE" "^Date:" nil nil "11"])
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Date:	Tue, 2 Nov 1993 13:36:41 -0800
From:	Miles R Fidelman <fidelman@civicnet.org>
Sender: fidelman@world.std.com
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com
cc:	freenet@freenet.victoria.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Re: ACE
Reply-to: Miles R Fidelman <fidelman@civicnet.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Mon, 1 Nov 1993 carl%commem@igc.apc.org wrote:

> I'm passing this along as potentially interesting.
> ------------
> From: pgordon@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Peter Gordon)
> Subject: Re: ACE
> To: freenet@freenet.victoria.bc.ca
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1993 17:09:21 -0800 (PST)

> So, what I want to know is are these ACE folks actually going to
> provide the MUCH NEEDE FUNDING to local civic/community networks
> or are the just going to gather information endlessly while slowing
> the progess of the folks (like ourselves and all the other freenets)
> who are actually DOING SOMETHING?

The key thing about ACE is that it is a group of information resource 
managers inside the Federal Government (all branches, I believe) who are 
committed to making the information they generate/control available 
electronically, and they are committed to doing it in useful, 
standardized ways (i.e. via gopher, WAIS, etc., rather than through 
sweatheart deals with vendors who have proprietary systems).

Since ACE is an informal organization, with no money of its own, it will 
not be funding anything -- but the agencies who come to meetings have 
various programs underway that could fund things.

The more important thing is that through ACE's efforts, more and more 
Federal information will become available at no cost, through the 
Internet.  Seems like a benefit to freenets.


**************************************************************************
Miles R. Fidelman                   mfidelman@civicnet.org
Executive Director                  91 Baldwin St. Charlestown MA 02129 
The Center for Civic Networking     617-241-9205 fax: 617-241-5064

Check out our gopher server:  
CCN - The Center for Civic Networking
on the list of all gopher servers in the world.

Information Infrastructure: Public Spaces for the 21st Century
**************************************************************************





From grace.rt.cs.boeing.com!douglas Tue Nov  9 14:58:51 1993
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	[nil "Tue" "9" "November" "1993" "14:54:31" "-0800" "Doug Schuler" "douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com" nil "17" "a couple of addresses needed QUICK!  (thanks!)" "^Date:" nil nil "11"])
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Date:	Tue, 9 Nov 1993 14:54:31 -0800
From:	Doug Schuler <douglas@grace.rt.cs.boeing.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com, community-networks@ce.washington.edu
Subject: a couple of addresses needed QUICK!  (thanks!)


I need to know to what addresses mail should be sent to post to the
following lists.

communet
PACS-L
Can-Freenet

Also, I could use the "name" of the lists of one exists.

This is for an article that I'm writing.

Thanks!


-- Doug


From media.mit.edu!asb Tue Nov 30 11:51:50 1993
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To:	community-access.PARC@xerox.com
cc:	asb@media.mit.edu
Subject: DIAC 94


(Apologies to those who get multiple copies.)

Most of you probably know that this mailing list started as a result of DIAC
92.  DIAC (Directions and Implications of Advanced Computing) is a small
conference sponsored by Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility.  The
next DIAC is coming up -- it will be in Boston in April (immediately before
CHI).  The last DIAC was inspiring, and this one should be even better, since
they're gearing up to take a serious look at the National Information
Infrastructure.


------- Forwarded Message

Please post and distribute to interested colleagues.

                         Call for Workshop Proposals

       Developing an Effective and Equitable Information Infrastructure

    Directions and Implications of Advanced Computing (DIAC-94) Symposium
                           Cambridge, MA, USA     
	                   April 23 - 24, 1994

The National Information Infrastructure (NII) is being proposed as the next-
generation "information superhighway" for the 90's and beyond.  Academia,
libraries, government agencies, as well as media and telecommunication
companies are involved in the current development. Computer Professionals for
Social Responsibility (CPSR) and other organizations believe that critical
issues regarding the use of the NII deserve increased public visibility and
participation and is using the DIAC Symposium to help address this concern.

The DIAC-94 symposium is a two-day symposium and will consist of
presentations on the first day and workshops on the second day.  The DIAC
Symposia are held biannually and DIAC-94 will be CPSR's fifth such
conference.  We encourage your participation both through attending and
through conducting a workshop. We are currently soliciting workshop
proposals. We suggest proposals on the following themes but any topic
relating to the symposium theme is welcome.

 Systems and Services              Policy
   + Community networks              + Funding
   + Information services            + Role of government
   + Delivery of social services     + Economic modelling of networks
   + Privacy (including medical)     + Commercialization of the NII
   + Educational support             + Universal access
   + Meeting diverse needs           + Freedom of expression and 
				 	community standards

 Electronic Democracy              Directions and Implications
   + Access to information           + Ubiquitous computing
   + Electronic town meetings        + Global hypertext and multimedia
   + Threats to democracy            + Computing in the workplace
   + Economic and class disparities  + Computing and the environment

 International Issues              Traditional and Virtual Communities
   + Language differences            + MUDs
   + Cultural diversity              + Communication ethics, values, and styles
   + National and international      + Gender relations in cyberspace
       priorities  
   + Cooperative projects            + Networking for indigenous peoples

Workshops will be an hour and half in length.  The proposal should include
title, presenter, purpose of workshop, references, and plan.  Workshops
should substantially involve the audience and proposals in which some group
product or action plan is created are preferred.  As the proposals may be
collected into a book, workshop proposals should be clear and informative to
people who don't participate in the workshop.  Proposals are due February 15,
1994 and acceptance and rejection notices will be sent by March 15, 1994.  To
discuss workshops or to submit proposals for workshops contact the program
chair, Doug Schuler, doug.schuler@cpsr.org.  Electronic submissions are
encouraged but paper versions are also acceptable (send them to CPSR/Seattle
- - - - DIAC '94 Workshop Submission, P.O. Box 85481, Seattle, WA 98145-1481).

        Sponsored by Computer Professionals for Social Responsbility

Potential co-sponsors are being sought.  Please contact us if your
organization would like to help with this event.  For more information on
co-sponsorship or on general issues, contact conference chair, Coralee
Whitcomb, cwhitcomb@bentley.edu.




------- End of Forwarded Message

From uoguelph.ca!drichard Tue Nov 30 15:36:17 1993
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Date:	Tue, 30 Nov 1993 14:26:12 -0800
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To:	abs@media.mit.edu, community-access.PARC@xerox.com
Subject: New List: Devmedia
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Devmedia: Media for Development and Democracy

List Members: Participatory radio, video and TV practitioners working
for the democratisation of communication.  Organizations posting to
the list include:

    Videazimut - An international coalition, founded in 1990, that
        brings together people from the world of independent and
        alternative video and television from every continent.
        Together its members act to promote the democratic practice of
        communication.  They aim to broaden the participation by
        communities and movements from the South and North in sound
        and image production.

    AMARC - The World Association of Community Radio Broadcasters.
        Supports community and alternative radio stations that
        involve people in participatory communication processes.

    Don Snowdon Centre for Development Support Communication -
        Supports the practice of using communication tools
        (especially small format video) in participatory action
        research and participatory development.  Located at Memorial
        University, St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada.

Listowner: Don Richardson, Assistant Professor, Department or Rural
Extension Studies, University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada.
Email: drichard@res.uoguelph.ca    Fax: 519-767-1510.

______________________________________________________________________

To subscribe to Devmedia send an email message to:

listserv@uoguelph.ca

In the text of the message type:

subscribe Devmedia yourfirstname yourlastname


DO NOT INCLUDE ANY OTHER TEXT OR SIGNATURES

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From netcom.com!amcgee Tue Nov 30 14:08:59 1993
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Date:	Tue, 30 Nov 1993 13:53:17 -0800
From:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
To:	community-access@parc.xerox.com, lanet@dhvx20.csudh.edu
Subject: EFF Op-Ed from the NY Times (fwd)
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 11:32:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Stanton McCandlish <mech@eff.org>
To: thesegroups@tic.com
Subject: EFF Op-Ed from the NY Times

>From the New York Times Op-Ed Page, Wednesday, November 24, 1993

A Superhighway Through the Wasteland?
   By Mitchell Kapor and Jerry Berman
   
   Mitchell Kapor is chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a
nonprofit group that promotes civil liberties in digital media. He was a
founder of the Lotus Development Corporation, from which he resigned in
1986. Jerry Berman is executive director of the foundation.


   (Washington) Telecommunications and cable TV executives, seeking to
allay concerns over their proposed megamergers, insist that the coming
electronic superhighway will be an educational and informational tool as
well as a cornucopia of interactive entertainment. Allow the marriage
between entertainment and communications giants, we are told, and they will
connect students with learning resources, provide a forum for political
discourse, increase economic competitiveness and speed us into the
multimedia information age.

   Both broadcast and cable TV were introduced with similar fanfare. The
results have been disappointing. Because of regulatory failure and the
limits of the technology, they failed to be saviors of education or
political life. We love the tube but recognize that it is largely a
cultural wasteland.

    For the Government to break this cycle of promise and disappointment,
communications mergers should be approved or barred based on detailed,
enforceable commitments that the electronic superhighway will meet public
goals. The amount of electronic material the superhighway can carry is
dizzying compared to the relatively narrow range of broadcast TV and the
limited number of cable channels. Properly constructed and regulated, it
could be open to all who wish to speak, publish and communicate.

   None of the interactive services will be possible, however, if we have
an eight-lane data superhighway rushing into every home and only a narrow
footpath coming back out. Instead of settling for a multimedia version of
the same entertainment that is increasingly dissatisfying on today's TV, we
need a superhighway that encourages the production and distribution of a
broader, more diverse range of programming.

   The superhighway should be required to provide so-called open platform
services. In today's channel-based cable TV system, program producers must
negotiate for channel space with cable companies around the country. In an
open platform network, we would avoid that bottleneck. Every person would
have access to the entire superhighway, so programmers could distribute
information directly to consumers.

   Consumers would become producers: individuals and small organizations
could create and distribute programs to anyone on the highway who wants
them. Open platform services will spur diversity in the electronic media,
just as low production and distribution costs make possible a wide variety
of newspapers and magazines.

   To prevent abuses by media giants that because of recent Federal court
decisions will control the pipeline into the home and much of the content
delivered over it, we need new laws. Like today's phone companies, the
companies controlling the superhighway must be required to carry other
programmers' content, just as phone companies must provide service to
anyone who is willing to pay for it. We must guarantee that anyone who,
say, wants to start an alternative news network or a forum for political
discussion is given an outlet to do so.

   Americans will come to depend on the superhighway even more than they
need the telephone. The guarantee of universal telephone service must be
expanded to include universal access to the superhighway. Although market
forces will help keep the new technology affordable, we need laws to
protect consumers when competition fails.

   And because several companies will operate the highway, each must be
required to interconnect with the others. Likewise, the new computers that
will give us access to the superhighway should be built according to
commonly accepted standards.

   Also, even an open, competitive market will leave out organizations with
limited resources such as schools and libraries. To compensate for market
oversights, we must insure that money -- whether through Federal support or
a tax on the companies that will control the superhighway -- is made
available to these institutions. Finally, people won't use the new
technology unless they feel that their privacy is protected. Technical
means, such as recently developed encryption techniques, must be made
available to all users. And clear legal guidelines for individual control
over access to and reuse of personal information must be established.
Companies that sell entertainment services will have a record of what their
customers' interests are; these records must remain confidential.

   Bell Atlantic, T.C.I., Time-Warner, U.S. West and other companies
involved in proposed mergers have promised to allow the public full access
to the superhighway. But they are asking policy makers to trust that,
profits aside, they will use their new positions for the public good.

   Rather than opposing mergers or blindly trusting competition to shape
the data highways, Congress should make the mergers hinge on detailed
commitments to provide affordable services to all Americans. Some
legislators, led by Representative Ed Markey, Democrat of Massachusetts,
are working to enact similar requirements; these efforts deserve support.

   The best approach would be to amend these requirements to the
Communications Act of 1934. Still the central law on open access, an
updated Communications Act would codify the terms of a new social contract
between the the telecommunications industry and the American people.

Copyright 1993 The New York Times Company



From netcom.com!amcgee Tue Nov 30 16:23:12 1993
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	[nil "Tue" "30" "November" "1993" "16:14:29" "-0800" "\"Arthur R. McGee\"" "amcgee@netcom.com" nil "23" "Re: Cultural Preservation" "^Date:" nil nil "11"])
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Date:	Tue, 30 Nov 1993 16:14:29 -0800
From:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
To:	communet@uvmvm.bitnet
cc:	thesegroups@tic.com, community-access@parc.xerox.com,
	natbbs@echonyc.com
Subject: Re: Cultural Preservation
Reply-to: "Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I forgot to add that you and the other people on this list should never 
let yourselves be seduced by the magic and wonders of the Internet and the 
NII. Contrary to what you see in the traditional press and often, on the 
net itself, there is a lot of activity occurring outside of that realm.

People at the grassroots level are using store-and-forward technologies 
such as Fidonet to accomplish quite a bit. Although real-time, interactive
technologies would be welcomed or preferred, individuals, as they have 
throughout history, will continue to use their resourcefulness and 
ingenuity to accomplish their goals and to get the job done, with or 
without grants, government help, the Internet, or the NII.

In addition, it is always good to have "back-doors" and alternatives, in 
case the promises made do not turn out to be the promises kept.

Peace.

Art McGee [amcgee@netcom.com]

"I never would forget that -- that I couldn't have whipped that white man
 as badly with a club as I had with my mind."
                                              Malcolm X


From tic.com!jsq Tue Nov 30 16:53:44 1993
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             <Pine.3.85.9311301505.A12650-0100000@netcom3>es us"
Message-ID: <9312010038.AA20235@akasha.tic.com>
Date:	Tue, 30 Nov 1993 16:37:51 -0800
From:	jsq@tic.com
To:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
cc:	communet@uvmvm.bitnet, thesegroups@tic.com,
	community-access@parc.xerox.com, natbbs@echonyc.com, jsq@tic.com
Subject: Re: Cultural Preservation

>I forgot to add that you and the other people on this list should never 
>let yourselves be seduced by the magic and wonders of the Internet and the 
>NII. Contrary to what you see in the traditional press and often, on the 
>net itself, there is a lot of activity occurring outside of that realm.
>
>People at the grassroots level are using store-and-forward technologies 
>such as Fidonet to accomplish quite a bit. Although real-time, interactive
>technologies would be welcomed or preferred, individuals, as they have 
>throughout history, will continue to use their resourcefulness and 
>ingenuity to accomplish their goals and to get the job done, with or 
>without grants, government help, the Internet, or the NII.

Nice polemic, Art.

However, I would like to point out that much of the Internet
has nothing to do with grants, government help, or the NII,
and hasn't for years.

>In addition, it is always good to have "back-doors" and alternatives, in 
>case the promises made do not turn out to be the promises kept.

Indeed.  However, the Internet is so much bigger than anything else and
growing so fast (see the December 1993 Matrix News for sizes and growth
rates) that its importance is increasing.  Users of it and other
networks, such as FidoNet, would do well to work for their vision of
the future of the Matrix before someone else determines it for them.

By the way, this week's Time, Fortune, U.S. News, and last Sunday's New
York Times, and there's no telling who else have pieces of varying
depth and insight (not to mention varying accuracy and precision) on
the Internet or related topics.  When the press jump on a bandwagon,
they all seem to jump together....

Thanks,
John

John S. Quarterman
Matrix Information and Directory Services, Inc. (MIDS)
jsq@tic.com
+1-512-451-7602
fax: +1-512-452-0127
1106 Clayton Lane, Suite 500W
Austin, TX 78723
U.S.A.

From netcom.com!amcgee Tue Nov 30 18:47:06 1993
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Message-ID: <Pine.3.85.9311301751.A16877-0100000@netcom>
Date:	Tue, 30 Nov 1993 17:25:42 -0800
From:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
To:	jsq@tic.com
cc:	communet@uvmvm.bitnet, thesegroups@tic.com,
	community-access@parc.xerox.com, natbbs@echonyc.com
Subject: Re: Cultural Preservation
Reply-to: "Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

> However, I would like to point out that much of the Internet
> has nothing to do with grants, government help, or the NII,
> and hasn't for years.
>
> [stuff deleted]
>
> Indeed.  However, the Internet is so much bigger than anything else and
> growing so fast (see the December 1993 Matrix News for sizes and growth
> rates) that its importance is increasing.  Users of it and other
> networks, such as FidoNet, would do well to work for their vision of
> the future of the Matrix before someone else determines it for them.

Agreed. My statement was mostly a response to the sense I have that 
people are pinning their hopes for ubiquitous, world-wide, two-way, 
many-to-many access on governments, corporations, institutions, and people, 
that have betrayed us too many times in the past.

Until such time as the dreamed of networks become as common as the 
telephone, as easy to use as a pencil, as trustworthy as my dog, and as 
safe as masturbation, we would be wise to take a few dollars out of the 
bank, and store them in the mattress.

Art McGee [amcgee@netcom.com]


From netcom.com!amcgee Tue Nov 30 22:44:48 1993
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Date:	Tue, 30 Nov 1993 22:34:09 -0800
From:	"Arthur R. McGee" <amcgee@netcom.com>
To:	thesegroups@tic.com, community-access@parc.xerox.com,
	natbbs@echonyc.com
Subject: Sunday Washington Post *text* (fwd)
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 15:30:53 -0500
From: janice <janice@cnidr.org>
Subject: [COSNDISC:136] Sunday Washington Post *text*

CoSN folks..

For those of you in the cyberworld, distant from DC, I thought it would be
nice to post this FYI. -- it is the text of the Sunday Post article..

-janice


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 DAY SUNDAY SECTION A SECTION
  PAGE a01
  STORY TYPE SERIES; NEWS NATL

  DATE 11/28/93
         
  HEADLINE CAUTION: CHILDREN AT PLAY ON INFORMATION HIGHWAY;
  ACCESS TO ADULT NETWORKS HOLDS HAZARDS 
         
  SERIES NAME           INFORMATION HIGHWAY                            
  SERIES NUMBER         1/2                                            
  BYLINE                John Schwartz                                  
  CREDIT                Washington Post Staff                          


ACCESS TO ADULT NETWORKS HOLDS HAZARDS 

Genevieve Kazdin, a self-appointed crossing guard on the information
highway, remembered the day last September when she found an 8- year-old
girl attempting computer conversations with a group of transvestites.
Seemingly safe at home, the child was playing with her favorite $2,000 toy,
using her computer and modem to make new friends through a service called
America Online.

The name of the electronic discussion group the girl had discovered was
called, confusingly enough, "TV chat" -- the TV being shorthand for
transvestite. Kazdin said the girl had read it differently: "She was
thinking in all innocence, 'We're going to talk about Barney.' "  Kazdin
recognized the girl's "screen name" because the Massachusetts grandmother
helps run America Online's programs for children. Kazdin chatted with her
little friend via keyboard, gently steering her to a more appropriate part
of the service -- and preventing one of a growing number of daily culture
shocks as users wander into rowdy neighborhoods found in the new online
community.

Just when parents and schools are urging children to play with computers,
the nature of their use is changing. Increasingly, computers are linked by
networks to other computers -- and those networks are connected to other
networks worldwide. As a result, users are exposed to an astonishing
variety of information, including some of the raunchier aspects of human
life.

To its denizens, that diversity is one of the most valuable features of
"cyberspace," as the online world is known.  But the inevitable mixing of
adults and children online has raised questions of parental supervision,
moral education, free speech and license. Vice President Gore's vision of a
"national information superhighway" where every schoolchild can tap the
resources of the Library of Congress could be threatened by a darker
vision.

Elizabeth Churchill Hamill, a 39-year-old landscape architect in Oakland,
said that her telecomputing 13-year-old son "started getting messages full
of sexual innuendo from adult women." Hamill was engaged in a running
discussion of children and computing earlier this year on the Whole Earth
'Lectronic Link (WELL), a Sausalito, Calif.-based online service that lets
users post and read messages on thousands of topics.  "I would be thinking,
how nice that he's spending so much time developing his writing and typing
skills, when suddenly he would ask, 'Hey, Mom, what does '69' mean?' "

Finding one's way around the varieties of online experiences is often as
easy as clicking the computer's "mouse."  Each system offers a menu of
options, from computer tips to news, games and encyclopedias.  Users
communicate with each other either by electronically posting messages
(e-mail) or by "chatting" -- that is, typing their remarks back and forth
on the screen in the print equivalent of a live conversation.

The amount of information available about each user depends on the network:
Some services offer full "profiles" of each subscriber; other services
allow users to identify themselves only by name or by their online
"handles."

On America Online, users who want to communicate with others connected to
the service at the same time simply click on a cartoon of a man and a woman
talking that bears the title "People Connection." They can then choose from
any number of "chat rooms" available at the moment with names like "Bible
chat" or "The Flirts Nook" or "Gay and Lesbian."

Letting Youngsters Cruise the E-Mall Dropping children in front of the
computer is a little like letting them cruise the mall for the
afternoon. But when parents drop their sons or daughters off at a real
mall, they generally set ground rules: Don't talk to strangers, don't go
into Victoria's Secret, and here's the amount of money you'll be able to
spend. At the electronic mall, few parents are setting the rules -- or even
have a clue about how to set them.  "We call it the IUD syndrome," said Jim
Thomas, a University of Illinois sociology professor who studies the
computer underground.  "Parents are ignorant, technology is ubiquitous, and
some of the information is deleterious."

Of course, cyberspace is little more than a new neighborhood, albeit a
virtual one. Longtime net dwellers say you're no more likely to encounter
the digital equivalent of a flasher there than, say, in any real-life
playground.  Yet the parents most concerned about what their children might
encounter online are the ones most familiar with the pleasures and perils
of cyberspace. Perhaps they have engaged in idle flirtation with people
they met online. They might have dallied with "cybersex," the practice of
typing sexually explicit fantasy scenarios back and forth, or "downloaded"
erotic photos to display on their computer screens. Or they could have
encountered discussions of the fine points of bomb-making or how to steal
credit card numbers.

But those parents with no online experience also should be preparing
themselves and their children, said Sherry Turkle of Massachusetts
Institute of Technology, an expert on children and computing. "In two
years," she said, "everyone's going to have this problem."  Children's
access to the many varieties of online experiences is booming, and many are
now using Internet, a vast international network of networks that once was
used primarily by researchers but now connects millions of ordinary users.

Janice Abrahams, an Internet enthusiast who is writing a book about
students online, estimated there are 150,000 Internet accounts (each of
which can be shared by many people) for students, teachers and school
administrators in the 22 states she has surveyed. She expects to see 1.5
million accounts nationwide within 30 months.  As more schools rush to
explore online education, she said, the Internet "is going to go crazy with
the kid connections -- that's the area of explosive growth."

Online collaboration is one of the ways that computers truly add value to
schooling, said Gary Watts, executive director of the National Education
Association's National Center for Innovation here. Programs sponsored by
organizations from the National Science Foundation to the National
Geographic Society bring children from around the world online to meet and
learn. Some programs, such as the Bonita, Calif.-based FrEdMail Foundation,
put children directly on the Internet for research and
communication. Participating in a national science project -- comparing
acid rain data, for example, or checking out their school lunches for
nutritional value -- involves and excites students.

But there are even more opportunities to telecompute at home. About 4
million people now subscribe to commercial online services such as
CompuServe, Prodigy and America Online, most of which now offer some
programs for children and are beginning to offer Internet access besides.

As the range of a child's possible experiences widens, sex isn't the only
parental concern. A growing danger is computer addiction, said Turkle. She
has long counseled parents not to worry too much about children who develop
temporary near-obsessions with video games or solo computing. Given enough
time, she said, most develop a satisfying mastery and dial back to normal
use -- a pattern similar to young fans of chess and other pursuits.

But sometimes they don't. Turkle is studying people who spend endless hours
in the online fantasy and role-playing games known as Multi-User Dungeons,
or MUDs. Players enter the game by dialing into the appropriate computer
system. The remote computer sends text that describes a scene in a fantasy
setting -- say, an enchanted castle.  Players create an online persona and
then type in commands like "north" or "enter" to move from room to room,
where they might hunt for treasure or fight vicious monsters programmed
into the system. They also can converse with other players through their
keyboards; hundreds of players in different cities might be spread out
through a game at the same time.  Turkle finds that MUDs offer overly
seductive chances to withdraw from reality for people already inclined to
do so. "Kids disappear into imaginary relationships all the time" as a
normal and healthy part of growing up, she said, but "usually there's a
limit to how far that imaginary relationship can go, because it's all in
their head." In an online game, "those limits are taken off."

On MUDs, too, online meetings can quickly turn uncomfortable. Isaac Dziga,
12, of Berkeley, Calif., was wandering through the virtual halls of a game
castle recently. (In fact, he was roller skating; because players are free
to come up with their own characters, Dziga had written in a set of wheels
for himself.) Suddenly, another player began typing suggestive messages to
him, such as "Do you find me attractive?"  Before Dziga, whose online
character is named "Moonshadow," could come up with a coherent response,
the other player typed, "Moonshadow's skates are tenderly untied and
removed."  Isaac responded by typing: "Moonshadow grabs his skates and
disappears." He reported the incident to an adult who runs the computer
game system. The adult "nuked" the offender, removing her from the system.

Mike Godwin worries about a different kind of juvenile temptation: the lure
of antisocial and even criminal acts.  Godwin is an attorney with the
Electronic Frontier Foundation, a Washington-based online civil liberties
and policy group -- and a new father. His organization sometimes aids the
legal efforts of people accused of computer crime whose cases raise
constitutional issues. "We already face a large number of young computer
users who have no scruples about computer intrusion, privacy violations,
and other computer-related misconduct," Godwin said.

'Bulletin Boards' for Juvenile Crime?  Many young people come to computer
crime by a common route, Godwin said. They often meet similarly inclined
children on local "bulletin board" systems (private networks usually run
from home computers) devoted to breaking into other computer systems for
fun. As they get more involved, they seek out other bulletin boards and big
computer systems. They might begin paying for the many long-distance calls
needed to support their exploits with stolen telephone accounts.

Young people are especially vulnerable to the temptations of computer
crime, Godwin said, because many of them "don't really see the persons or
entities on the other end of a computer interaction as being totally real."
The computer offers anonymity, a kind of phosphor-dot mask. And as the boys
learned in "Lord of the Flies," a mask can give the wearer license to do
forbidden things. Not all children will succumb, of course. "It's not that
steep a slope -- but kids are more likely to slide down it than anyone,"
Godwin said.  Despite their worries, few parents want their children to
miss out on the online revolution, so parents and educators have begun to
provide innovative ways to deal with the more troubling aspects. Programs
such as Kids Only OnLine at America Online offer a wholesome haven, and
adults like Kazdin serve as chaperones.  America Online, CompuServe and
other services now let parents limit their children's access.

Skeptics say any attempt to put blinders on children is doomed to fail, and
the solution lies in that most daunting task: teaching values.  "In our
house we don't have any kind of information censorship -- we have a lot of
conversations about what to do with information when you get it," said John
R. Sumser, executive director of the Point Foundation (the Sausalito-based
nonprofit organization that publishes the Whole Earth Review and that
started the WELL). Steve Wozniak, who designed the original Apple computer
that helped kick off the personal computer revolution, said that while he
doesn't like everything he sees on the Net, "The way to steer :youngsters:
away from it . . . is setting good examples and letting the kid burn out"
on objectionable material.

School programs are beginning to teach the responsibilities that go with a
computer password. Mary Ellen Verona, who runs the computer science program
at the Montgomery Blair High School magnet program in Silver Spring,
requires both students and their parents to sign a form before the children
type their first command.  It outlines the responsibilities, purposes and
limits of school computer use. Those who violate the school rules -- say,
by breaking into other computer systems -- face a stiff penalty: They lose
their online privileges. "For many of them, it's a tremendous punishment,"
Verona said.

John Clement, an official at the National Science Foundation who deals with
issues of schoolchildren on the Internet, said once students get a sense of
right and wrong in cyberspace, "We don't believe in prior control. We do
believe in nailing someone when they do something wrong -- and nailing them
hard." Clement has made his teenage son pay off his own computer-related
long-distance bills.

The best way to keep children out of trouble might be to scout out
cyberspace with them. Noting that America Online now boasts 450,000
subscribers, Kazdin said, "You wouldn't let your kid walk the street alone
in a city that large -- and you shouldn't here, either." As with any city,
"We have the same collection of wonderful, good people -- and some real
weirdos," Kazdin said.  Hamill, the mother whose son received the numerical
proposition, agrees. She spends time online herself, and even met her
boyfriend on the WELL. "It gives me some authority when I talk to them,"
Hamill said.  As for the children themselves, many tend to think their
parents' concerns are lame.

One 15-year-old user of America Online who goes by the name "Stud 15"
admitted to occasionally engaging in cybersex, but said it's "just
something me and my friends do to show how smooth we are." The Los Angeles
boy said his parents don't know how raw some of his discussions get, but
said they shouldn't worry: "It is the safest sex around."

Noah Johnson, 15, of Berkeley, revels in the world of online discussion and
debate, and calls parents "irritatingly overprotective."  Johnson, whose
online name is "streak," said via electronic mail, "What their kids are
being exposed to is the real world. Real people, making real points, about
real ideas. If I had a kid, I'd be bloody thrilled if the kid was online
instead of watching 'Beverly Hills 90210' or some damn thing."

Children can fend for themselves online, Johnson said. And despite their
misgivings, some parents are finding that he's right. Hamill recounted with
pride what happened when her 11-year-old son was approached online recently
by a woman in her 30s who invited him to "do it," perhaps not knowing his
age. "He sent her a message back saying, 'Sure -- maybe in a couple of
decades.' "




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