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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 16:55:48 MET
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt@sofia.docs.uu.se>
Reply-To: bqt@bern.docs.uu.se
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, info-pdp11@transarc.com, eps@reed.edu,
        parsons-list@cs.purdue.edu, ufh-i-exil@ufh.se
Subject: Problems to reach me.
Message-Id: <CMM.0.88.697996548.bqt@Sofia.DoCS.UU.SE>

Sorry if mail have bounced on me, I had a typo in my .forward

	Johnny


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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1992 15:43:30 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Request for your possible junk

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1992 15:43:30 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Request for your possible junk

I'm interested in buying any of the following DEC machines (or remains of):

	PDP1, PDP4, PDP5, PDP6, PDP7, PDP8, PDP9, PDP12, PDP15, LINC-8

I'm also looking for old Flip-Chip modules, System Modules, Logic Labs,
Computer Labs, DEC Tape drives, and schematics/documentation on the PDP1,
PDP4, PDP5, PDP6, and PDP7 systems.

				Jeff Russ, Bloomington, Indiana
				iuvax!silver!russ
				russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
				Home: (812)336-9987
				Work: (812)335-2733


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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 16:28:32 EST
From: Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com (Jon Dreyer -- Sun PC Networking)
Message-Id: <9202142128.AA13976@pdp8.East.Sun.COM>
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Subject: original price of original pdp-8?

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 16:28:32 EST
From: Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com (Jon Dreyer -- Sun PC Networking)
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Subject: original price of original pdp-8?

Does anybody know what the price was of a minimally-configured PDP-8
(no suffix) when it was first introduced?  What was the minimal
configuration?  Any other interesting tidbits about that machine?

Since I'll probably get lots of answers, please send them only to me
and I'll summarize.


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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:53:21 EST
From: Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com (Jon Dreyer -- Sun PC Networking)
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To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com
Subject: Re: original price of original pdp-8?

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:53:21 EST
From: Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com (Jon Dreyer -- Sun PC Networking)
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, Jonathan.Dreyer@east.sun.com
Subject: Re: original price of original pdp-8?

> Does anybody know what the price was of a minimally-configured PDP-8
> (no suffix) when it was first introduced?  What was the minimal
> configuration?  Any other interesting tidbits about that machine?

This is probably the "definitive" answer:

---------begin--------
From: Charles Lasner <lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>

$18,500 for 4K,teletype rack mount (from sales literature)
$ 4,500 for 4K more (not counting ext mem control)
---------end----------

I suspect the following applies not to the PDP-8, but to one of
its descendants, I suspect the 8/L or 8/S:

---------begin--------
From: ph@ama.caltech.edu (Paul Hardy)

It was the first "minicomputer" to cost under $10,000 when it was first
introduced -- that was one of its big selling points.
---------end----------

Thanks, all.

Jon


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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 19:17:04 EST
From: Charles Lasner <lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Subject: $10,000 system
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.0.698545024.lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>

Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 19:17:04 EST
From: Charles Lasner <lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Subject: $10,000 system

    I think Jon is right.  The PDP-8/l was usefully available for under
$10,000 with a teletype and TC08/TU56 and 4K.  This system can run P?S/8
and crawl the Disk Monitor.

    The original PDP-8 with 4K, TC01 and only ONE TU55 cost well over
$20,000, so this $10,000 claim is a little exaggerated relative to the
-8.  I would also point out that a similarly configured PDP-5 with 552
DECtape controller and a single 555 drive would cost even more.

    However, a PDP-8/s processor was available soon after the -8, and
was well under $10K, but is very slow, incompatible, and stripped down.
Only specially self-modified FOCAL, 1969 and the Disk Monitor with a
specially slowed-down DF32 can run on it.  Most of its market was for
dedicated CPU's imbedded in large scientific instruments such as Picker
Instruments counters, etc.

    Brooklyn Poly had a prototype of one of these, which had an actual
-8 as part of the whole setup.  The advertising literature shows an -8/s
and a whole lot less real estate in the room to solve the same
application.

    By the time you have upgraded an -8/s to have "useful" peripherals
on it, the cost difference fades, and the false economy of the -8/s's
limitations really start hurting.  Yet, there were known configurations
such as DF32 with two platters, high-speed reader/punch, teletype hooked
to a 4K -8/s :-(.

    Even as late as when the -8/l was introduced, these machines were
still being used.  I am sure the maintenance costs alone were more than
the cost to upgrade to an -8/l :-).

    In any case, -8/e systems with RX01 were available for under $10,000
including extended memory, probably 8K.  The 6100 chip made it possible
to have the VT-78 for a lot less.  This would still compare favorably
with the hobbyist-oriented micros of the day, since most of them were as
expensive or more when configured that "large."  (Most hobby micros were
glorified "toys" which used ROM's, not mass storage.  Near-mythical
configurations were possible, but not often seen.  This was also before
CP/M-80 even existed, so having the hardware wouldn't get you any
utility to speak of.  PDP-8's have always had useful software available
since at least 1968.  (Earlier than that is a matter of opinion about
the Disk Monitor System :-).

    Today, it is possible to get a similar system for almost free :-).
Some people have paid a few $100's for complete systems.  In some
circumstances, it's yours for the asking, but you have to haul it away.

    There was an amusing situation where a user site gave away their
-8/e system because "they had to upgrade to a machine with a larger
disk." The replacement system was an IBM system 3x (forget which) where
the fixed and slow winchester disk is only indirectly accessible.  You
have to load a 10-box magazine of floppies which are auto-loaded
onto/off-of the disk as part of the boot process.

    The software took a half-hour to auto-load either way, so you have
to wait that long to boot the machine typically.  the application wasn't
the issue, as the company offered PDP-8, 11, and IBM versions of their
"package" which I believe was written in BASIC or RPG as necessary.
Physical space wasn't an issue either, because the site had a "computer
room" for this and other facilities, including report and tape/disk
storage, etc.

    The -8/e system consisted of 3 short cabinets.  There were a total
of four 2.5 Meg RK8E disks, each quickly dismountable with removable
media.

    I guess they got what they needed: ONE disk that was larger than ONE
of their FOUR RK disks :-) :-) :-).  (Total capacity was 5.0, not 10.0
megs, notwithstanding the floppy access restriction.)

cjl


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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1992 18:42:11 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
To: PDP8-LOVERS@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Grasshopper fuses and wire lead lamps

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1992 18:42:11 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
To: PDP8-LOVERS@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Grasshopper fuses and wire lead lamps

Does anyone know of a source for grasshopper fuses used in the old
DEC machines (PDP8, PDP9, LINC-8)?  I haven't been able to locate them
in any catalogs.  I'm also looking for some of the 28 volt wire lead
lamps used in the older machines.  (LED's don't have the charm of real
incandesent lamps).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Russ				russ@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
University Computing Services		PHONE: (812) 855-2733
Indiana University, Bloomington, IN     I want to buy old PDP[4-9] systems.


