From cjl@maestro.com  Ukn May 23 17:41:15 1994
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Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 17:11:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Subject: Anyone out there?
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Cc: Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9405231706.A1865-8100000@maestro.com>
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Status: RO
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Is this list still alive, or is it just that all who care are now
subscribing to alt.sys.pdp8?

I know at least one person who can't read net news who should be arguing
his case here!

cjl


From erd@kumiss.infinet.com  Ukn May 23 18:46:49 1994
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Date: Mon, 23 May 94 18:16:22 EDT
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From: erd@kumiss.infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Anyone out there?
Status: RO
X-Status: 

cjl (Charles Lasners) writes:
:Is this list still alive, or is it just that all who care are now
:subscribing to alt.sys.pdp8?

I read alt.sys.pdp8.

:I know at least one person who can't read net news who should be arguing
:his case here!

That wouldn't be me.


ObPDP8: (As some of you may remember) I have been trying to help a local
university faculty member upgrade his data from WPS-8 to Word on the Mac.
I just got my hands on a utility called MacLink/PC Plus (from the Wierd
Stuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale, CA).  It lets you translate various Mac and
PC file formats.  One of the formats is VMS WPS.  How compatible/incompatible
are the VMS and PDP-8 varieties of WPS files?

Thanks.

-ethan


From bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE  Ukn May 23 19:01:12 1994
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From: Johnny Billquist  <bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
Date: Tue, 24 May 94 1:03:55 MET DST
Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se
To: Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone out there?
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 23 May 1994 17:11:06 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.0.769734235.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Is this list still alive, or is it just that all who care are now
>subscribing to alt.sys.pdp8?
>
>I know at least one person who can't read net news who should be arguing
>his case here!

We really should try to fix a gateway between alt.sys.pdp8 and
pdp8-lovers. Does anybody know of any software packages that
can do this?

	Johnny


From John_Wilson@mts.rpi.edu  Ukn May 24 00:17:12 1994
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From: John_Wilson@mts.rpi.edu
To: PDP8-LOVERS@ai.mit.edu
Message-Id: <4336926@MTS.RPI.EDU>
Subject: Mail gateway
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>We really should try to fix a gateway between alt.sys.pdp8 and
>pdp8-lovers. Does anybody know of any software packages that
>can do this?
 
Hmm, I wonder what INFO-PDP11@TRANSARC.COM uses, it works pretty well.
 
John


From bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se  Ukn May 24 00:24:47 1994
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From: Johnny Billquist  <bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se>
Date: Tue, 24 May 94 6:10:38 MET DST
Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se
To: John_Wilson@mts.rpi.edu
Cc: PDP8-LOVERS@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Mail gateway
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 24 May 94 00:02:00 EDT
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.0.769752638.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>>We really should try to fix a gateway between alt.sys.pdp8 and
>>pdp8-lovers. Does anybody know of any software packages that
>>can do this?
> 
>Hmm, I wonder what INFO-PDP11@TRANSARC.COM uses, it works pretty well.

If someone can tell me what they use, I can probably set up a gatway
at a local machine here, since I do get alt.sys.pdp8 on that machine.

	Johnny


From erd@kumiss.infinet.com  Ukn May 24 14:05:23 1994
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From: erd@kumiss.infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Subject: WPS-8 vs. WPS-PLUS
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Bob Hassinger <hassinger@merlin.lmig.com> writes:

:I have used exactly that combination here.  We had DECmates connected via
:serial lines to our VAX which runs ALL-IN-1 which in turn includes WPS-PLUS
:(and before that we ran stand alone WPS-PLUS).  There is a communications
:option that makes transferring WPS-8 documents from the DECmate to ALL-IN-1 (or
:WPS-PLUS as I recall) very easy and smooth.  The VAX accepts them with no
:problem.  Generally speaking WPS-PLUS is a superset of WPS-8. (Note the WPS-8
:machine needs the communications capability - later versions on DECmate II and
:III had it bundled but in some earlier versions it was an extra cost option).

I've got a DECmate-II, so communications is not a problem.

:At that point another option allows the WPS-PLUS document to be saved out of
:your "file cabinet" into an individual file.  You specify a file name that ends
:in ".WPL" and that causes it to be stored in the right format (format
:conversions are implicitly specified be the file name extensions you give!).

What I don't have is WPS-PLUS.  I was planning on using Kermit-12 to get the
data from the DECmate-II, directly to the Mac.

If WPS-PLUS is a superset, then I should be OK, right?

-ethan


From bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se  Ukn May 25 14:14:10 1994
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From: Johnny Billquist  <bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se>
Date: Wed, 25 May 94 19:52:01 MET DST
Reply-To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se
To: PJHurst <0005460443@mcimail.com>
Cc: pdp8-lovers <pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Forwarding Net news...
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 24 May 94 10:33 EST
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.0.769888321.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>
>IF someone had Cron privs on a unix system, then it should be quite
>straightforward to setup a cron task that forwared a news group using
>on of the many news readers forward options... But alas I am a mail
>only system (on a) and as such have no direct access to netnews and the
>ability to forward it!!!

Not that easy. All articles in a newsgroup is separate files
in a directory. You only want to send the new articles out
to the list, so a straight forward cron-job can't do it.
You will need some sort of program to help you out.

	Johnny


From bson@moomin.ai.mit.edu  Ukn May 25 17:09:34 1994
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Date: Wed, 25 May 94 16:48 EDT
From: Jan Brittenson <bson@moomin.ai.mit.edu>
To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se
Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.0.769888321.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE> (message from Johnny Billquist on Wed, 25 May 94 19:52:01 MET DST)
Subject: Re: Forwarding Net news...
Reply-To: bson@ai.mit.edu
Organization: nope
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Generally, you gateway news to mail by setting up a separate outgoing
news feed.  The program that does the feed hacks the headers and
generates mail.  The opposite is done by adding an entry to the
mailing list that results in all its mail being sent to a program that
just hacks the headers and forwards it to inews or whatever is used to
post.  The two programs cooperate by tagging the messages with special
header lines; otherwise messages would circulate endlessly, spawning
massive volumes of mail and news.

The site here already has rsalz's mail2news gateway installed, tested
and running for other things.  But, as I discovered yesterday, we
don't get alt.sys.pdp8, so someone else will have to do the mail gw.
It would have been a good thing to keep both the gateway and list
administration with the same people, but that doesn't seem doable.

How about trying to create comp.sys.dec.classics instead?

						-- Jan Brittenson
						   bson@ai.mit.edu


From emcguire@bucky.i2.com  Ukn May 25 18:22:28 1994
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From: emcguire@bucky.i2.com
Message-Id: <9405252121.AA25508@bucky.intellection.com>
Subject: Re: Forwarding Net news...
To: bson@ai.mit.edu
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 16:21:54 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
In-Reply-To: <m0q6Prt-000DJRC@moomin.ai.mit.edu> from "Jan Brittenson" at May 25, 94 04:48:00 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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Status: RO
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> It would have been a good thing to keep both the gateway and list
> administration with the same people, but that doesn't seem doable.
> 
> How about trying to create comp.sys.dec.classics instead?

Just to get a gateway to news working?

Surely someone on the list can run mail2news.

Ed


From meg@netmeg.ann-arbor.mi.us  Ukn May 25 18:29:54 1994
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From: meg@netmeg.ann-arbor.mi.us (Meg Geddes)
Subject: Re: Forwarding Net news...
To: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 17:29:47 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: 0005460443@mcimail.com, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.0.769888321.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE> from "Johnny Billquist" at May 25, 94 07:52:01 pm
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->
->>
->>IF someone had Cron privs on a unix system, then it should be quite
->>straightforward to setup a cron task that forwared a news group using
->>on of the many news readers forward options... But alas I am a mail
->>only system (on a) and as such have no direct access to netnews and the
->>ability to forward it!!!
->
->Not that easy. All articles in a newsgroup is separate files
->in a directory. You only want to send the new articles out
->to the list, so a straight forward cron-job can't do it.
->You will need some sort of program to help you out.
->
->	Johnny
->


I have a full newsfeed, and the capability to mail newsgroups to people who
want to receive them, if someone wants to organize this and figure out who
wants to get the newsgroup, I set up a mailing list to do so.



-- 
Meg Geddes     <No admitted affiliation with anything>     Ann Arbor, MI
meg@netmeg.ann-arbor.mi.us

<I have PMS and root password.  Don't mess with me.>


From cjl@maestro.com  Ukn May 25 19:10:10 1994
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Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 18:51:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Subject: Re: Forwarding Net news...
To: PJHurst <0005460443@mcimail.com>
Cc: pdp8-lovers <pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu>
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On Tue, 24 May 1994, PJHurst wrote:

> 
> IF someone had Cron privs on a unix system, then it should be quite
> straightforward to setup a cron task that forwared a news group using
> on of the many news readers forward options... But alas I am a mail
> only system (on a) and as such have no direct access to netnews and the
> ability to forward it!!!
> 
> Paul Hurst

But how do you get a followup you post to the list to be an item on the
newsgroup?

cjl


From bson@moomin.ai.mit.edu  Ukn May 25 19:17:08 1994
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Date: Wed, 25 May 94 19:00 EDT
From: Jan Brittenson <bson@moomin.ai.mit.edu>
To: emcguire@bucky.i2.com
Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
In-Reply-To: <9405252121.AA25508@bucky.intellection.com> (emcguire@bucky.i2.com)
Subject: Re: Forwarding Net news...
Reply-To: bson@ai.mit.edu
Organization: nope
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X-Status: 

   From: emcguire@bucky.i2.com
   Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 16:21:54 -0500 (CDT)
   Cc: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu

 >> How about trying to create comp.sys.dec.classics instead?

 > Just to get a gateway to news working?

To create a newsgroup everyone will receive.  If everyone receives it,
then there's no longer a need for a gateway, since people can just
read it through news.  So, the answer to your question is no, I meant
what I wrote -- my use of "instead" was intentional.  If someone
positively must have the traffic delivered through their mailbox, then
there are several sites that already maintain similar gateways for
other core newsgroups.

 > Surely someone on the list can run mail2news.

Surely you're more intelligent than this.

						-- Jan Brittenson
						   bson@ai.mit.edu


From cjl@maestro.com  Ukn May 25 19:27:00 1994
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Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 19:00:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Subject: Re: WPS-8 vs. WPS-PLUS
To: Ethan Dicks <erd@kumiss.infinet.com>
Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
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On Tue, 24 May 1994, Ethan Dicks wrote:

> Bob Hassinger <hassinger@merlin.lmig.com> writes:
> 
> :I have used exactly that combination here.  We had DECmates connected via
> :serial lines to our VAX which runs ALL-IN-1 which in turn includes WPS-PLUS
> :(and before that we ran stand alone WPS-PLUS).  There is a communications
> :option that makes transferring WPS-8 documents from the DECmate to ALL-IN-1 (or
> :WPS-PLUS as I recall) very easy and smooth.  The VAX accepts them with no
> :problem.  Generally speaking WPS-PLUS is a superset of WPS-8. (Note the WPS-8
> :machine needs the communications capability - later versions on DECmate II and
> :III had it bundled but in some earlier versions it was an extra cost option).
> 
> I've got a DECmate-II, so communications is not a problem.

Wrong.  This is leaving out all that matters!  What is being described is
merely that all of these systems support "DX" document exchange
communication.  You could be Rainbow WPS+, WPS+PC, MASS-11, VMS, TOPS-20
DX, it doesn't matter.  (Or Suitable Solutions WPS-DOS or WPS-80 for
either the Rainbow or the DECmate with APU/XPU.  BTW, I have a copy of
DECmate WPS-80.)

So, on the end system you get a local "equivalent" of what you sent them,
presumably starting from DECmate/PDP-8 WPS.  Conversions of what your doc
was turned into have nothing to do with its origin, etc.

> 
> :At that point another option allows the WPS-PLUS document to be saved out of
> :your "file cabinet" into an individual file.  You specify a file name that ends
> :in ".WPL" and that causes it to be stored in the right format (format
> :conversions are implicitly specified be the file name extensions you give!).
> 
> What I don't have is WPS-PLUS.  I was planning on using Kermit-12 to get the
> data from the DECmate-II, directly to the Mac.

Kermit-12 only helps you send ASCII text files.  That's fine as long as
you want to lose all of the WPS "-isms" in the process by passing the file
through DECmate WPFLOP into OS/278 ASCII files.  But if you use Suitable
Solutions WPS-DOS, you can turn the file directly into what some call "DX"
format as an MS-DOS file, and then Software Bridge can turn that into
WordPerfect without losing anything.  Such a file could then be brought to
the Mac, etc. on a 1.44 MB MS-DOS 3.5" or using Kermit, etc. from the PC, etc.

> 
> If WPS-PLUS is a superset, then I should be OK, right?

It ain't, and no.

> 
> -ethan
> 

cjl


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Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 19:53:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Subject: Re: Forwarding Net news...
To: bson@ai.mit.edu
Cc: bqt@minsk.docs.uu.se, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
In-Reply-To: <m0q6Prt-000DJRC@moomin.ai.mit.edu>
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On Wed, 25 May 1994, Jan Brittenson wrote:

> Generally, you gateway news to mail by setting up a separate outgoing
> news feed.  The program that does the feed hacks the headers and
> generates mail.  The opposite is done by adding an entry to the
> mailing list that results in all its mail being sent to a program that
> just hacks the headers and forwards it to inews or whatever is used to
> post.  The two programs cooperate by tagging the messages with special
> header lines; otherwise messages would circulate endlessly, spawning
> massive volumes of mail and news.

Makes sense.

> 
> The site here already has rsalz's mail2news gateway installed, tested
> and running for other things.  But, as I discovered yesterday, we
> don't get alt.sys.pdp8, so someone else will have to do the mail gw.
> It would have been a good thing to keep both the gateway and list
> administration with the same people, but that doesn't seem doable.

Don't you get alt groups at all?  I can re-newgroup alt.sys.pdp8 yet again
if it helps.  If you ask the news admin to let it in, then when it arrives
there, it'll "take" etc.

> 
> How about trying to create comp.sys.dec.classics instead?

No hope.  The self-appointed hotshots who "run" the "mainstream" ("alt is
a sewer!") newsgroups will exhause anyone's patience as they endlessly
massage their egos talking about news administrivia instead of doing the
"approval" for such a group.

Additionally, a non-alt group has to pass formal "rules" about getting
created.  Thus, you first have to have a viable existent newsgroup to
generate enough "votes" for the passage of the new group, and then you
have to "win" the vote count.  I think that you have to have someting like
winning 2:1 and also that it also means you won by over 100 votes.  Thus,
these hot-shots can sabotage any such effort because they can be *counted
on* to vote no on anything they aren't in to.  Thus, there aren't enough
of us to win by shear bulk.  We would probably have to have around 500
active readers who want to create it seriously enough to vote yes so that
we offset those self-appointed net.cops, etc.  Assuming there are about
100 of us isn't good enough as these egotistical assholes bother to
participate in no votes and then just go back to being disinterested
parties relative to our activities, etc.

And further, we have no "track record" as all we are is an .alt group. 
These people have a mindset problem in that they knee-jerk react to all
alt groups as joke groups.

When I first newgrouped alt.sys.pdp8, it was after a brief discussion with
one person (you know who you are, M.O.!) and we had the standard discussion
and seconding on alt.config.  The usual "participants" there were heavily
involved in what they usually do, i.e., arguing pedantically why some
marginally-named group did/did not deserve to exist (while of course there
are several similarly named groups serving fairly close purposes, etc.)
and ultimately spending a lot of bandwidth on just how to name the group
to be "most" consistent with existing group names, etc.  Thus, they really
didn't notice us.

But tough!  I followed all of the "rules" for creating an alt group.  Yet,
later I got several nasty e-mail from some of them for "violating" their
"rules".  I told them that they missed the discussion because they were
excessively side-tracked by that then-hot topic, and that it was all done
weeks ago, etc.  Eventually, they relented.  However, if they had been
persistent, we could find ourselves in one of those egotistical "wars"
where one person does a newgroup only to be cancelled minutes later by
another doing a rmgroup, etc.

And recently, when I do another newgroup, I make it clear this is a viable
*existent* group, and the newgroup is being done for propagation
improvement purposes only, and that we have been in continuous operation
since Sep, 1992, etc.

So, yes, it would be nice.  But with the current state of net.anarchy, I
wouldn't hold my breath....

> 
> 						-- Jan Brittenson
> 						   bson@ai.mit.edu

cjl


From cjl Wed May 25 20:39:02 1994
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 20:38:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Subject: Re: Forwarding Net news...
To: bson@ai.mit.edu
cc: emcguire@bucky.i2.com, pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
In-Reply-To: <m0q6RwG-000DJRC@moomin.ai.mit.edu>
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On Wed, 25 May 1994, Jan Brittenson wrote:

> To create a newsgroup everyone will receive.  If everyone receives it,
> then there's no longer a need for a gateway, since people can just
> read it through news. 

There is no such thing.  Some of our readers *cannot* read the news at
all, no group!

cjl


From HASSINGER@merlin.lmig.com  Ukn May 26 11:47:34 1994
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Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 11:25:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bob Hassinger <HASSINGER@merlin.lmig.com>
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Cc: HASSINGER@merlin.lmig.com
Message-Id: <940526112552.bcd5@merlin.lmig.com>
Subject: Re: WPS-8 vs. WPS-PLUS
Status: RO
X-Status: 

cjl writes:

>On Tue, 24 May 1994, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> >> Bob Hassinger <hassinger@merlin.lmig.com> writes:
>>
>> :I have used exactly that combination here.  We had DECmates connected via
>> :serial lines to our VAX which runs ALL-IN-1 which in turn includes WPS-PLUS 
>> :(and before that we ran stand alone WPS-PLUS).  There is a communications
>> :option that makes transferring WPS-8 documents from the DECmate to ALL-IN-1 (or 
>> :WPS-PLUS as I recall) very easy and smooth.  The VAX accepts them with no 
>> :problem. Generally speaking WPS-PLUS is a superset of WPS-8. (Note the WPS-8 
>> :machine needs the communications capability - later versions on DECmate II and 
>> :III had it bundled but in some earlier versions it was an extra cost option). 
>> 
>> I've got a DECmate-II, so communications is not a problem. 
> 
>Wrong.  This is leaving out all that matters!  What is being described is 
>merely that all of these systems support "DX" document exchange 
>communication.  You could be Rainbow WPS+, WPS+PC, MASS-11, VMS, TOPS-20 
>DX, it doesn't matter.  (Or Suitable Solutions WPS-DOS or WPS-80 for 
>either the Rainbow or the DECmate with APU/XPU.  BTW, I have a copy of 
>DECmate WPS-80.)

...

I had attempted to make my reply private to avoid a network debate.  I read the
question as being specifically directed at the particular question of using
MacLink/Plus on a Mac as a part of a conversion process from the WPS-8 family. 
I offered one view of that, and as I reported it works quite well me, cjl's
comments not-withstanding.

... 

>>  
>> If WPS-PLUS is a superset, then I should be OK, right? 
> >It ain't, and no. 
> 
>>  
>> -ethan 
>>  
> 
>cjl

Of course none of the WPS-PLUS implementations are perfect supersets of any of
the WPS-8 family.  As I noted however, I have found that for practical purposes
it is close enough to be quite useful in situations like this.  I have found
MacLink/Plus does provide a usable conversion from .WPL files to MS Word on the
Mac, which is not to say there aren't any number of other options too.

The main reasons I do it the way I outlined are that in my particular case it
gives an easy way to get the DECmate document into a .WPL file format and put
it in a place that is easy for me to access from the Mac.  That in turn allows
easy MacLink/Plus access for the conversion to MS Word or another format.

If, as Ethan Dicks' follow up message (which I did not see on the list for some
reason) says, a VAX with ALL-IN-1 or stand alone WPS-PLUS is not available,
then my particular process is not the solution to the file transfer part of his
the problem.  MacLink/Plus may still serve for the conversion part.

Any combination that can successfully take a DECmate document from WPS-8 and
get it into a .WPL format file located on the Mac should be satisfactory.  It
depends on what platforms and software _are_ available to the person seeking to
do the job.

I think the most helpful contribution on this would be to simply document the
various options for getting a document out of DECmate WPS into a format that is
accessible on a more flexible platform while retaining the WPS formatting.  As
I suggested, the WPS-8 communications option to the VAX is one.  Others may be
able to document other options, and where to get the software involved.  I am
not sure cjl's message was completely clear and easy to implement on that, at
least for a new-comer who lacks his background and resources.

Bob Hassinger
hassinger@merlin.lmig.com


From cjl@maestro.com  Ukn May 26 17:40:21 1994
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Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 16:56:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Subject: Re: WPS-8 vs. WPS-PLUS
To: Bob Hassinger <HASSINGER@merlin.lmig.com>
Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu, HASSINGER@merlin.lmig.com
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On Thu, 26 May 1994, Bob Hassinger wrote:

> cjl writes:
> 
> >On Tue, 24 May 1994, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> > >> Bob Hassinger <hassinger@merlin.lmig.com> writes:
> >>
> >> :I have used exactly that combination here.  We had DECmates connected via
> >> :serial lines to our VAX which runs ALL-IN-1 which in turn includes WPS-PLUS 
> >> :(and before that we ran stand alone WPS-PLUS).  There is a communications
> >> :option that makes transferring WPS-8 documents from the DECmate to ALL-IN-1 (or 
> >> :WPS-PLUS as I recall) very easy and smooth.  The VAX accepts them with no 
> >> :problem. Generally speaking WPS-PLUS is a superset of WPS-8. (Note the WPS-8 
> >> :machine needs the communications capability - later versions on DECmate II and 
> >> :III had it bundled but in some earlier versions it was an extra cost option). 
> >> 
> >> I've got a DECmate-II, so communications is not a problem. 
> > 
> >Wrong.  This is leaving out all that matters!  What is being described is 
> >merely that all of these systems support "DX" document exchange 
> >communication.  You could be Rainbow WPS+, WPS+PC, MASS-11, VMS, TOPS-20 
> >DX, it doesn't matter.  (Or Suitable Solutions WPS-DOS or WPS-80 for 
> >either the Rainbow or the DECmate with APU/XPU.  BTW, I have a copy of 
> >DECmate WPS-80.)
> 
> ...
> 
> I had attempted to make my reply private to avoid a network debate.  I read the
> question as being specifically directed at the particular question of using
> MacLink/Plus on a Mac as a part of a conversion process from the WPS-8 family. 
> I offered one view of that, and as I reported it works quite well me, cjl's
> comments not-withstanding.
> 
> ... 
> 
> >>  
> >> If WPS-PLUS is a superset, then I should be OK, right? 
> > >It ain't, and no. 
> > 
> >>  
> >> -ethan 
> >>  
> > 
> >cjl
> 
> Of course none of the WPS-PLUS implementations are perfect supersets of any of
> the WPS-8 family.  As I noted however, I have found that for practical purposes
> it is close enough to be quite useful in situations like this.  I have found
> MacLink/Plus does provide a usable conversion from .WPL files to MS Word on the
> Mac, which is not to say there aren't any number of other options too.
> 
> The main reasons I do it the way I outlined are that in my particular case it
> gives an easy way to get the DECmate document into a .WPL file format and put
> it in a place that is easy for me to access from the Mac.  That in turn allows
> easy MacLink/Plus access for the conversion to MS Word or another format.
> 
> If, as Ethan Dicks' follow up message (which I did not see on the list for some
> reason) says, a VAX with ALL-IN-1 or stand alone WPS-PLUS is not available,
> then my particular process is not the solution to the file transfer part of his
> the problem.  MacLink/Plus may still serve for the conversion part.
> 
> Any combination that can successfully take a DECmate document from WPS-8 and
> get it into a .WPL format file located on the Mac should be satisfactory.  It
> depends on what platforms and software _are_ available to the person seeking to
> do the job.
> 
> I think the most helpful contribution on this would be to simply document the
> various options for getting a document out of DECmate WPS into a format that is
> accessible on a more flexible platform while retaining the WPS formatting.  As
> I suggested, the WPS-8 communications option to the VAX is one.  Others may be
> able to document other options, and where to get the software involved.  I am
> not sure cjl's message was completely clear and easy to implement on that, at
> least for a new-comer who lacks his background and resources.
> 
> Bob Hassinger
> hassinger@merlin.lmig.com

Bob has *never* been able to follow anything I offer :-).

A lot of people have been this route already, trying to help people like
Ethan with problems like this, etc.  There is a very expensive commercial
solution, and I never recommend it involving the Shaftstall conversion
peripheral for PC's, etc.

For a lot of data to be converted, communications as an intermediary is a
ludicrous notion since we're talking about using 9600 baud or worse, etc.

The problem is that there really aren't too many programs that like WPS8
RX50 disks directly.  If you have a Rainbow, you can convert the disks,
and the result is palatable to WPS+PC, but that entails another level of
conversion, as well as needing another machine.

Using Suitable Solutions' WPS-DOS gets you to DX format disks in one step.
Moreover, you can do WPS-style editting while there if desired, etc.

Software Bridge is a real easy to use Windows program that takes DX format
(a descendent of WPS internally, but MS-DOS files on the PC) and makes it
any one of a number of popular PC WP formats such as Wordperfect.  Such
files can be read on a Mac if you use 1.44 MB 3.5" HD diskettes.

So, we're talking about using a program that's a virtual user-interface
clone of WPS, followed by a dumb Windows program.

Still think this is "too hard" to follow?

My "background and resources" are what makes my suggestion possible; it
doesn't take much to act on it.

cjl


From cjl@maestro.com Fri Mar 10 02:36:53 1995
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Subject: Forwarding Net news...

   Date: Wed, 25 May 94 16:48 EDT
   From: Jan Brittenson <bson@moomin.ai.mit.edu>

   Generally, you gateway news to mail by setting up a separate outgoing
   news feed.  The program that does the feed hacks the headers and
   generates mail.  The opposite is done by adding an entry to the
   mailing list that results in all its mail being sent to a program that
   just hacks the headers and forwards it to inews or whatever is used to
   post.  The two programs cooperate by tagging the messages with special
   header lines; otherwise messages would circulate endlessly, spawning
   massive volumes of mail and news.

   The site here already has rsalz's mail2news gateway installed, tested
   and running for other things.

ai.mit.edu has mail2news partially installed, but I don't believe it
was ever put into full production.  Jan could ask Bruce what the
status is.  

Jan: The sources are under /src/local/newsgate.  ;-}

   But, as I discovered yesterday, we
   don't get alt.sys.pdp8, so someone else will have to do the mail gw.

alt.sys.pdp8 now exists at ai.mit.edu.  The local policy on alt, is
that new groups are only created on request to usenet@ai.mit.edu 

   It would have been a good thing to keep both the gateway and list
   administration with the same people, but that doesn't seem doable.

Seems doable now!?!  ;-}

   How about trying to create comp.sys.dec.classics instead?

						   -- Jan Brittenson
						      bson@ai.mit.edu

that's almost a two month long process and someone has to put a fair
amount of time in doing the RFS et al.

If you do this, I suggest multiple groups from the start:

comp.sys.dec.classics.misc
comp.sys.dec.classics.pdp8
comp.sys.dec.classics.pdp10
comp.sys.dec.classics.pdp11
...  ???

best -len

Member, League for Programming Freedom, ask: lpf@uunet.uu.net


