From cjl@maestro.com Mon Jul 11 21:07:18 1994
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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 14:20 EST
From: PJHurst <0005460443@mcimail.com>
To: pdp8-lovers <pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu>
Subject: Info && Feed
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1) Does anyone have any info on a tektronix 4696 inkjet printer, I am
looking for a technical manual (or even a users manual) and info on what
ink and paper this thing uses.  

2)------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here we go again....

Lets talk about forwarding alt.sys.pdp8 to this mailing list for those of
us who do not have any internet news capability. The Problems listed on why
it was not done usually amount to needing a filter so a loop of messages
is not created from the lovers list to alt.sys.pdp8 and alt.sys.pdp8 to
'lovers' I propose that may something easier be done.

1) all mail to pdp8-lovers be forwared to alt.sys.pdp8, but no distributions
be done to the current pdp8-lovers list.
2) all posts to alt.sys.pdp8 be forwared to a new 'dummy' mailing list which
distributes it to the current pdp8-lovers list.

This would avoid nasty loops in an easy way. 

Call the mailing list pdp8-lovers-distribution perhaps and then post messages
periodically that traffic be directed to pdp8-lovers, and to make the life of 
the lists owner easier perhaps an additional account be added called (perhaps)
pdp8-lovers-subscriptions be added for additions and maint.

Take this as a suggestion, as I am in no position to offer the service,
but it would be nice if the other half of the internet pdp8 users could
participate in discussions.......


Paul Hurst     ..... Email  (PJHURST@MCIMAIL.COM)


From cjl@maestro.com Sat Jul 16 20:17:06 1994
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From: meg@netmeg.ann-arbor.mi.us (Meg Geddes)
Subject: Re: Newman Computer Exchange
To: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 18:14:27 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
In-Reply-To: <9407151447.AA00441@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> from "Douglas W. Jones" at Jul 15, 94 09:47:42 am
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->
->I was in Dexter, Michigan, the day before yesterday, so I stopped by
->Newman Computer Exchange to see what they had.  They still do have
->some PDP-8 parts in hand, here is the list:

Actually, they're now called "The Newman Group".

->They say that they have large quantities of some of these items available,
->I'd guess, leftovers from DEC's fire sale on PDP-8 Omnibus boards.  I took
->the time to translate the board numbers and option names they listed to
->the more complete descriptions given above, but some of the things they
->have I don't know (G8016 G8018 MS8CB MS8DJ).

Heh, yea, I bought all the remaining PDP8 gear when I was with Newman back
in the early 80's, when DEC was trying to unload it all.

The G8016 and G8018 are both power supplies for PDP8A's - the 16 being the
one compatible with MOS memory, and the 18 being necessary to run core.

The MS8CB is a 32k MOS memory, and the MS8DJ is a 128k board (MOS).

->still be useful.  The E-mail address of the salesperson I talked to is
->hyter@newman.com, and the phone number is 313-426-0705.

Narda Hyter.

->the surplus market.  In my opinion, these high prices will remain
->justified as long as there are PDP-8 systems in production applications.
->Just a few weeks ago, for example, I talked to someone who was nursing a

heh - after a while, you know, this stuff is no longer old - it's antique.


-- 
Meg Geddes     <No admitted affiliation with anything>     Ann Arbor, MI
meg@netmeg.ann-arbor.mi.us

<I have PMS and root password.  Don't mess with me.>


From cjl@maestro.com Sat Jul 16 20:18:13 1994
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Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 09:47:42 CDT
From: "Douglas W. Jones" <jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu>
Message-Id: <9407151447.AA00441@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu>
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Newman Computer Exchange

I was in Dexter, Michigan, the day before yesterday, so I stopped by
Newman Computer Exchange to see what they had.  They still do have
some PDP-8 parts in hand, here is the list:


M882    DK8EA   Real Time Clock (Line Frequency)

M8316   DKC8AA  PDP-8/A I/O serial/parallel/clock (hex wide)

G8016

G8018

.       KC8AA   PDP-8/A Programmer's Console

M8340?  KE8EA   Extended arithmetic element
M8341?  KE8EA   Extended arithmetic element

M8315   KK8A    PDP-8/A CPU board (hex wide)

M8319   KL8A    PDP-8/A 4 channel serial I/O

M8655   KL8JA   Terminal Control (UART based substitute for M8650)

M8653   KL8M    Modem Control, used with KL8* to provide data ready stuff

M8317   KM8AA   PDP-8/A bootstrap, powerfail (hex wide)

M837    KM8E    Extended Memory and Time Share Control

M848    KP8E    Power fail and auto-restart

M8416   KT8AA   PDP8A Memory Management (hex wide)

M847    MI8E    Hardware Bootstrap Loader

        MS8CB

        MS8DJ

M8433   RL8A    Disk controller for RL01/02 (hex wide)


They say that they have large quantities of some of these items available,
I'd guess, leftovers from DEC's fire sale on PDP-8 Omnibus boards.  I took
the time to translate the board numbers and option names they listed to
the more complete descriptions given above, but some of the things they
have I don't know (G8016 G8018 MS8CB MS8DJ).

Anyway, this is far from a complete assortment of PDP-8 stuff, but it may
still be useful.  The E-mail address of the salesperson I talked to is
hyter@newman.com, and the phone number is 313-426-0705.

I've heard comments about the outrageous prices that places like DEC and
Newman are charging for obsolete boards you can get for loose change on
the surplus market.  In my opinion, these high prices will remain
justified as long as there are PDP-8 systems in production applications.
Just a few weeks ago, for example, I talked to someone who was nursing a
PDP-8/E system that's running part of a nuclear reactor.  I gather that
any change in the control system requires dealing with the nuclear
regulatory and licencing bureaucracy, and it's far more effective to
nurse an antique, paying through the nose for parts, than to get any
change approved.
					Doug Jones
					jones@cs.uiowa.edu


From cjl@maestro.com Tue Jul 19 12:15:04 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 11:24:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Subject: OS/278 Working Copy RX50 Diskette Image
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9407191030.B18529-0100000@maestro.com>
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By popular demand, a working copy of OS/278 V2 is being added to the 
sunsite archive in the diskimages/rx50/teledisk area with an associated 
label in the labels directory.  The filename is os278wc and will be in 
the usual .lbl and .td0 (within .zip) format, etc.

Unlike the standard release diskette, this diskette is *truly* ready to 
go, including on DECmate III and III+.  (Note: there are reports that the 
handlers on this pre-built disk do not necessarily work on all models.  
Specifically, the provided comm port printer handler can't work on 
DECmate III.  These reports predate the existence of the DECmate III+, 
which presumably is compatible enough with the III that the same problem 
level applies, etc.  The printer port handler should work on all models, 
etc.)

The main difference between the release diskette and the working copy 
diskette is that the slushware level has been upgraded to version 422, 
the last known release version.  This version (or something close) is 
required for all bootable disks on DECmate III and III+.  The original 
OS/278 release contained slushware usable only on DECmate II.

Additionally, certain utilities have been added that aren't in the 
standard release, but are known to work from it.  An annotated directory 
follows:


 19-Jul-94

ABSLDR.SV 0070    6 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
CCL   .SV 0076   29 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
DIRECT.SV 0133    7 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
FOTP  .SV 0142    8 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
PIP   .SV 0152   14 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
SET   .SV 0170   28 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
DATE  .SV 0224    3 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
LOG   .SV 0227    4 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
SETUP .SV 0233    2 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
EDIT  .SV 0235   18 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
VERIFY.SV 0257    3 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
FORMAT.SV 0262    8 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
RTFLOP.SV 0272   17 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
WPFLOP.SV 0313   14 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
BATCH .SV 0331   10 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
PAL8  .SV 0343   19 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
CREF  .SV 0366   13 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
FUTIL .SV 0403   27 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
BITMAP.SV 0436    5 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
SRCCOM.SV 0443    5 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
HELP  .SV 0450    8 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
HELP  .HL 0460   62 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
MOUNT .SV 0556   25 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
BOOT  .SV 0607   24 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
FIXDIR.SV 0637   30 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
MENU  .SV 0675    3 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
EDTHLP.TX 0700   26 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
NOTES .TX 0732   14 23-Jan-84   Standard Release
REMEM .SV 0750    5 31-May-87   CCL Remembrance Utility
DSKCPY.SV 0755   28 05-Oct-84   Copy disk 0 -> 1 Utility
TECO  .SV 1011   22 23-Sep-88   TECO V5
CMPARE.SV 1037    6 06-Oct-90   User-Written Compare Utility
ENCODE.SV 1045    6 12-Jul-92   Kermit-12 ENCODE Utility
DECODE.SV 1053    5 12-Jul-92   Kermit-12 DECODE Utility
ENBOO .SV 1060    4 12-Jul-92   Kermit-12 .BOO Encoder
DEBOO .SV 1064    4 12-Jul-92   Kermit-12 .BOO Decoder
K12MIT.SV 1070   33 06-Sep-90   Kermit-12 Standard Release
K24MIT.SV 1131   33 12-Jul-92   Kermit-12 2400 Baud
K96MIT.SV 1172   33 12-Jul-92   Kermit-12 9600 Baud
[ empty ] 1233  100


 100 Free blocks


The files that are not part of the standard release include a disk 0 to
disk 1 copy facility taken from an install diskette, the CCL remembrance
utility, an old version of TECO that essentially works on the incompatible
DECmate hardware due to coincidental quirks of its implementation, a
user-written file and absolute block compare utility, and a portion of the
Kermit-12 release in executable form.  This includes the .BOO and ENCODE
utilites enabling the user to acquire additional binary files from other
sources using Kermit-12's text-only file transfer mode, etc. 

cjl


From cjl@maestro.com Tue Jul 19 19:08:16 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 10:48:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Subject: More DECmate RX50 Images on sunsite archive
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9407190900.A18529-0100000@maestro.com>
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The PDP-8/DECmate archive on sunsite.unc.edu continues to grow by leaps 
and bounds!

One of the fast-growing areas is the RX50 diskimage area in 
//pdp-8/diskimages/rx50/teledisk and the associated labels directory.

Each file is a complete image of a standard RX50 diskette and an
associated label suitable for printing out on sticky address labels of a
common size in the US (3.5" x 15/16").  Each label file is 6 lines high
with only the interior 4 or less lines actually used.  Once the first
label is lined up (there is a test label file for alignment purposes,
etc.) the entire lot of .LBL files can be printed in succession with
ordinary print routines capable of normal printing with CR/LF only, etc. 

The .LBL file is available in the labels directory and is also included 
in the teledisk directory as well (indirectly).  Each file in the 
teledisk directory is actually a .ZIP file containing both the .LBL file 
and also a .TD0 file which is the TELEDISK image of the RX50 diskette.  
PKZ204G.EXE or equivalent unzip are required to produce the files from 
within the .ZIP files.

The .TD0 files are standard teledisk 2.x files which can be converted 
directly to the RX50 diskettes using the shareware version of teledisk V 
2.12 or greater.  (Note: versions greater than 2.12 are *not* 
shareware!)  Required hardware is a PC with a good quality (such as TEAC 
FD55GFR) 5.25" HD drive.  In spite of known bugs in Version 2.12, the 
provided files will convert correctly into viable RX50 diskettes.

As with all teledisk usage, it's mandatory to provide the correct media
for the job: HD diskettes will *not* work on RX50 drives due to the
radically different coercivity, etc. parameters of HD formulation.  The
original diskettes mandated are MD1DD or equivalent, which is actually
360K-type diskettes honed to allow 96 TPI rather than 48 TPI, but still
intended for large-signal operation at 250 KHZ, not 500 KHz as is used in
HD diskettes, etc.  However, modern diskette production typically 
actually produces well-honed media, albeit untested beyond 48 TPI 
requirements.

Thus, the best alternative is to use cheap DSDD diskettes, even one-sided
ones, preferably without hub rings if possible.  (Note: removing hub rings
incompletely is worse than not removing them at all!  Hub rings in turn
cause eventual registration errors because all 96 TPI diskettes are far
more critical due so smaller recorded area than 48 TPI diskettes, thus far
more critical hub alignment is required.  As hub rings age, they cause the
diskette to "drift" more readily.  Thus, all HD diskettes which are
*always* recorded at 96 TPI are produced without hub rings.  However, this
is not done because of their higher frequency, rather the higher TPI which
is shared by the RX50 requirements as well, etc.)  If a batch of disks 
produces unreliable results, try another batch.  They're cheap enough to 
waste a few boxes on until you get a good batch.  (And if the hub rings 
cannot be removed, just recycle the disks as 360K disks every few months 
of heavy usage or equivalent.  On hard-disk based DECmates, this could 
literally add up to years as the diskettes are only seldom used to 
install software and little else, etc.  In such cases, the only heavy 
usage of diskettes generally is for backups and/or inter-machine file 
transfer via diskettes, etc.  In these few cases, or for diskette-only 
machines used heavily, etc., MD1DD or equivalent should be used for long 
life.  Expect to pay a high price for a box or two, but more shouldn't be 
needed as the data can be copied from a seldom-used diskette to a 
heavily-used MD1DD diskette, etc.)

Archive files are available for a few common DECmate utilities such as
Typeasy, GTE, as well as a complete set of WPS 2.3.0 diskettes including a
US DECspell.  (UK (ize, ise) versions will eventually be available.  Does
anyone have any information on the allegedly sold legal dictionary
variant?)

Additional files include CP/M-80 and a few major CP/M-80 packages sold by 
Digital specifically for the DECmate such as MultiPlan.  (Note: this 
archive is not going to be a general repository for generic CP/M-80 
packages; only programs of specific use on the DECmate will be provided.  
Additionally, there could be legal complications distributing files that 
could be run on other architectures!)  DEC's MS-DOS 2.11 for the DECmate 
II with XPU is also available.  (Again, only programs of specific use on 
the DECmate will be provided to avoid the same legal complications, etc.)

Recent arrivals to the archive include the DM-112 release diskettes of
COS-310 for DECmate.  The first diskette is a complete diskette-based COS
system capable of transferring itself to a hard disk volume on a DECmate
II or III+. 

The second diskette (DM1122) is essentially a utility to make up for
inadequacies of the standard Master Menu, which apparently does not quite
correctly allocate a COS volume, although I understand that there are
COS-specific commands to at least conditionally correct the problem.  (I
suspect that the problem is that COS commands assume the COS volumes are
of a standard size, thus if the volumes are allocated to a non-standard
size, the COS commands may not fully work.  In any case, Master Menu
produces volumes that are not immediately useful to COS in spite of screen
output to the contrary.  COS commands may be able to correct this
situation.  Using the provided utility instead of Master Menu will produce
correct COS volumes immediately.  Note that there is an OS/278 parallel 
to this, but there is an OS/278 program FIXDIR to correct the problem 
explicitly.)

I would appreciate it if someone could write up a small FAQ file for COS 
usage taken from its manual, which is apparently not available in 
machine-readable form.  This could including some working basics, as well 
as explaining all of the issues related to installing COS, including 
anomalies of the volume problems, sizes, mounting considerations, 
work-arounds etc.

The next set of diskettes will be related to OS/278 V2.  In a separate 
post, I'll explain some specifics.

cjl


From cjl@maestro.com Tue Jul 26 04:13:05 1994
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	  on Mon, 25 Jul 94 15:11:27 CDT id AA09484
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 15:11:27 CDT
From: "Douglas W. Jones" <jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu>
Message-Id: <9407252011.AA09484@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu>
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
Subject: archive sites

I've recently been poking around to check that the archive sites listed in
the pdp-8 faq are still there, and I've found that

 ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp8

seems to be broken, or at least, that it's unable to speak the same FTP
protocol that NCSA mosaic wants to speak.  Does anyone know what's wrong?

Anyway, I've found that the following www URL references the PDP-8 faqs,
in hypertext format, complete with working hot links to other documents:

 http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/dec-faq/top.html

Those who have access to one or the other world wide web server will find
this handy!
				Doug Jones
				jones@cs.uiowa.edu


From cjl@maestro.com Thu Jul 28 02:55:01 1994
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 17:47:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: BoltThrower <SCHMIDTP@carleton.edu>
Subject: M8650 documentation requested
To: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
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Does anyone out there either happening to have some documentation for the
M8650 that they might be willing to share, or would someone tell me what the
operation bits will do for this card.  For example, with the instruction 6031
what is the 1 going to do?

Paul Schmidt  -  schmidtp@carleton.edu


From cjl@maestro.com Thu Jul 28 08:10:25 1994
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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 03:13:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Lasner <cjl@maestro.com>
Subject: Re: M8650 documentation requested
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On Wed, 27 Jul 1994, BoltThrower wrote:

> Does anyone out there either happening to have some documentation for the
> M8650 that they might be willing to share, or would someone tell me what the
> operation bits will do for this card.  For example, with the instruction 6031
> what is the 1 going to do?
> 
> Paul Schmidt  -  schmidtp@carleton.edu
> 

Perhaps it would help if you explained your interest and current 
knowledge of PDP-8 systems in general, etc.

cjl


From cjl@maestro.com Fri Jul 29 03:10:05 1994
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To: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu
Cc: pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu
In-Reply-To: <9407252011.AA09484@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu> (jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu)
Subject: Re: archive sites
Reply-To: MAP=Reply@nic.dsi.net
From: "Michael A. Patton" <MAP@nic.dsi.net>

   Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 15:11:27 CDT
   From: "Douglas W. Jones" <jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu>

   [...] I've found that ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp8 seems to be broken

I had no problem getting to this.  I'm running Mosaic for X, version
2.4, on a Sun4.

	-MAP


