Subject: Old Iron at home stories wanted

From: [email-masked] (Scott McClure)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 21:13:20 GMT

Greetings all,

	I am trying to compile a collection of stories from those
true Old Iron Hackers(tm) who have actually brought these magnificent
beasts home with them.

Interesting details might include:

- Why did you do it?

- How did you get the equipment?

- How did you find the space for it?

- What did you do about the heat problem?

- How did your neigbors react to the loss of television reception in the
  area after you got it up and running?

- How can you possibly afford the power bill?

- How do your neigbors react to the brown-outs during a boot?

....and anything else you'd like to include.

Please reply via email.  I'll post the finished collection to 
alt.folklore.computers if I get decent response.

Thanks in advance,

Scott

-- 
INTERNET:  [email-masked]                     | "Nuke the homeless gay
ARPANET:   [email-masked]                    |  baby whales for Jesus!"
UUCP:      {crash, nosc}!ryptyde!scott               |    - bumper sticker

---

From: [email-masked] (Alan Wm Paeth)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 15:50:21 GMT

>[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Scott McClure):
>
>I am trying to compile a collection of stories from those true Old Iron
>Hackers(tm) who have actually brought these magnificent beasts home with them.
>

>- Why did you do it?

My first program was on a PDP-8 in High School in 1972. The first installation
I ever got my hands on was a PDP-11 -- the null job strobing out the front
panel in "pong" fashion. So DEC systems with core memory appeal to my Youth.
(Incidentally, it was Bill Gates who drove me out to Seattle Pacific College
for a tour of the 11).

>- How did you get the equipment?

I refused to pay money so traded an IBM/PC monochrome adaptor worth $35
for a mint condition PDP-11/20. I think I wound up with fewer transistors.
I picked a 20 because it has core memory and a discrete processor -- if you
drop bit 4 of the PC you know just where it lives. Mine was sitting idle at
the transmitter site at WQED Pittsburgh (world's first public television
station), where it had previously been used in real-time video production.
So it has had a very colourful past.

>- How did you find the space for it?

Fits in a desk with the ASR-33 on top. BASIC stays in memory when it is not
running. Probably almost as useful as an HP-25CV, but not as portable. "Gosh
grandpa, they had continuous memory back in 1970?". "Son, it was called CORE".

>- What did you do about the heat problem?

Runs off of 110VAC. Heat is not a problem if your house has electric heat and
you make it a winter-time hobby. But I couldn't find a way to hook the plenum
of my air handler to the PDP-11/70 I was considering so I settled for a 11/55
instead. (I'm a UNIBUS man all the way...). Since I've moved back to Canada,
I can compute year round. Snow is blowing by my office window as I type this...

>  area after you got it up and running?

They're on cable. Any loss of reception is from the 200 watt dual 6146 (tube)
finals of my Drake TX4/C ham transmitter. Incidentally, that rig was built
within a few months of my 11/20, also in 1972. It is no coincidence that I
turned sixteen the summer of '72 -- I'm trying to relive that year endlessly.
While on the subject: anyone got a European pressing of Floyd's _Dark Side
of the Moon_, or ELP's _Trilogy_? Or a Hammond B-3 organ with Leslie Speakers?

>- How can you possibly afford the power bill?

I can't -- Duquesne Light in Pittsburgh is power hungry in too many senses.
I'd wanted to put a gas line in but I've yet to see a Methane-powered computer.
(Hmm, I could be on to something. A Methane-powered laptop could really be a
very, uh, commodius, little take-anywhere machine. Batteries not required).

>- How do your neigbors react to the brown-outs during a boot?

I boot from (high-speed) paper tape. It is lots of fun. I've also got the full
DEC field diagnostics on paper, plus cases of unpunched manila. I'm very short
on mylar stock -- it's saved for very important stuff, like amazing hacks to a
"TREK" game stored in the form of patches to the vanilla version's core image.

>....and anything else you'd like to include.

Out of defiance to the shady stripping practices and outragious prices of
"Neumann Computer Exchange", I've wanted to form a consortium of users called
"The Old Mann's Computer Exchange". Paper tape media would be exchanged on a
round-robin basis. The mailers will have heavy block letter stencils reading:

  GO AHEAD and X-RAY !!!

>alt.folklore.computers if I get decent response.

My pleasure, Scott. Hope this reply gets disseminated. I really am serious
about the "Old Mann's Computer Exchange" but I need a solid core of charter
members. Maybe a posting will help me put together an address list.

Heck, this is too much fun. I'll just post it directly.
Thanks for prompting this enjoyable discussion.

    /Alan Paeth
    VE3AWP/KD3XG
    Computer Graphics Laboratory
    University of Waterloo

---

From: [email-masked] (Charles Lasner)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 20:08:50 GMT

>Interesting details might include:

Because they were already there.  I have had -8 hardware within personal
reach since 1975.

>- How did you get the equipment?

Many different ways, some of them even legal.

>- How did you find the space for it?

It let's me share some of its space in my building.

>- What did you do about the heat problem?

I use DECmates in the summer and -8's in the winter.

>  area after you got it up and running?

What's a neighbor?

>- How can you possibly afford the power bill?

It lowers my oil bill.

>- How do your neigbors react to the brown-outs during a boot?

If I had any neighbors, they wouldn't notice, since I have 0000 3-phase power
feed into my building.

>....and anything else you'd like to include.

I am not quite sure how many -8's I have, and there are several methods of
counting them that might apply.

>alt.folklore.computers if I get decent response.

Glad to oblige.  Detailing this could take so much bandwidth that imminent
death of the Net would be predicted.

cj "-8's 'R us" l

---

From: [email-masked] (CP/M lives!)
Date: 16 Feb 93 12:04:44 MDT

> - How do your neigbors react to the brown-outs during a boot?

I had a roommate who complained until I got out the manuals and pointed out
that I'd have to start _two_ RL02s simultaneously to equal his 1500 watt(!)
blow dryer.
-- 

Roger Ivie                      "My God! That computer is full of Pentium!
[email-masked]                  It's a wonder that you haven't been turned
                                 into mutants!"

---

From: [email-masked] (Frank Ferrie)
Date: 17 Feb 93 06:11:25 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Scott McClure) writes:
|> Greetings all,
|> 
|> 	I am trying to compile a collection of stories from those
|> true Old Iron Hackers(tm) who have actually brought these magnificent
|> beasts home with them.
|> 
|> Interesting details might include:
|> 
|> - Why did you do it?

	As a graduate student back in 1980 I was looking for a
	``personal'' computer.  My budget was limited - I couldn't
	afford the $N*K required to get a machine, display, memory
	and some decent storage.

|> 
|> - How did you get the equipment?
|>

 	Around the same time the EE department at McGill was clearing
	out their 8's to make room for more 11's and Vaxen.  I managed
	to get hold of an 8/f with 24K (words) of core, a TU56 dual
	dectape, high speed paper tape reader/punch, an RX08
	clone (dual floppy), and a VT52.  For good measure they 
	threw in a complete print set, a couple of boxes of paper
	tape, and approximately 100 dectapes.

|> - How did you find the space for it?

	Unfortunately the deal didn't include a rack.  I managed
	to build an enclosure that took up about the same space
	as a standard double pedestel desk.  The rest of stuff
	ate up one standard closet.

|> 
|> - What did you do about the heat problem?
|>

	Hey man, I'm from Canada.  Just turned off the radiators,
	that's all.  Worked great from September to May - Summer
	was a bitch, though.  The machine ran fine until the
	ambient temperature hit 90.  Now how many times did I
	replace those $#%^&* series regulators?!  A 25 foot
	extension for the console into another room provided
	an escape from the heat in summer.
 
|> - How did your neigbors react to the loss of television reception in the
|>   area after you got it up and running?
|>

	That's the neat part.  Apparently DEC took EMI seriously
	(at least in the later models).  I NEVER had problems
	with interference.  In fact, the 8 was ``quieter'' than
	one of the first pc boxes I dragged home.
 
|> - How can you possibly afford the power bill?
|>

	Let's see now.  Back then it was approximately 4 cents
	per kilowatt hour, or 5 cents an hour to run the beast.
	Sort of like driving a 68 Olds-98 with that monster V8
	when gas was 30 cents a gallon.
 
|> - How do your neigbors react to the brown-outs during a boot?
|>

	As I remember, my place had wiring dating from the
	30's.  When I turned everything on at once, there was
	this lovely dimming of the room lights until everything
	hit steady-state.
 
|> ....and anything else you'd like to include.
|>

	I kept the machine alive until 1986.  To my knowledge
	it's still running at the domicile of a well-known
	UNIX hacker by the handle of ``der mouse.''

	We still have a straight 8 (no slash) in the EE
	department (you know, the one with the heated core).
	It has a two-digit serial number and still ran
	the last time I powered it up.

|> Please reply via email.  I'll post the finished collection to 
|> alt.folklore.computers if I get decent response.
|> 
|> Thanks in advance,
|> 
|> Scott
|> 
|> -- 
|> INTERNET:  [email-masked]                     | "Nuke the homeless gay
|> ARPANET:   [email-masked]                    |  baby whales for Jesus!"
|> UUCP:      {crash, nosc}!ryptyde!scott               |    - bumper sticker
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
F.P. Ferrie                                                tel. 514-398-6042
McGill Research Center for Intelligent Machines
McGill University

---

From: [email-masked] (Paul Repacholi)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 18:29:10 GMT

>>Hackers(tm) who have actually brought these magnificent beasts home with them.

I have an 11/70, about 8 11/34s, 3 PDP-8es misc 'micros' and a KL-10E

> members. Maybe a posting will help me put together an address list.

Put me down. PS Anyone got an 18 bit bit fiddler for a TM02/TM03? I desperatly
need one for the 10...

~Paul

---

From: [email-masked] (Frank - Hardware Hacker - Borger)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 17:37:00 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Alan Wm Paeth) writes...
..
>very, uh, commodius, little take-anywhere machine. Batteries not required).

	Brings back memories of a DECUS question and answer which went
	something like this.

	DEC rep on stage: "You should really trade in your PDP11/70's, just
			  think of the power you will save..."

	Attendee at mike: "Maybe you didn't hear when I introduced myself,
			  I said I work for Ontario Hydro-Electric..."

	Anyway, if anything goes of an old iron group, sign me up, although
	I don't quite qualify, because my old iron is at work, not at home,
	however we still have real use for high speed paper tape reader and
	punch, among other things.

Frank R. Borger - Physicist     ___      George Halas had two heirs; one carried
Michael Reese - U of Chicago   |___      his seed and one carried his soul. ...
Center for Radiation Therapy   | |_) _   One can imagine the wisper of George
net: [email-masked]    | \|_)  Halas, rooting for his soul. -
ph: 312-791-8075 fa: 567-7455       |_)                           Jeannie Morris

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 18 Feb 93 23:31:04 AEST

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Paul Repacholi) writes:
>... 
	Hello All,
			I also appreciate the old-time friendliness of a 
'front-panel'. I dont actually run one at home but have a few in storage;
hoping one day to have some resources to contribute to a computer museum.

			You may like to note that Decus in Australia had
the fore-sight some years ago to start up a "Nostalgic Obsolete Products"
SIG for such interesting machines (and their owners). 

			I also know of two PDP-11/05s (or /10s) still in 
commercial use in a local TV station. Does anyone know of any 11/20s still
in commercial use?

			As a special project the Museum Curator at Digital
Australia is hoping to set up "a PDP-11 with one of everything on it". I
expect this to take some time in the planning, and longer in the assembly
and testing. Contributions gratefully accepted. Any suggestions as to a
particular version on a favourite operating system that will talk to the 
greatest number of different devices will also be accepted. A special
guessing competition as to the final power loading will be held. Similarly
guess how much space (in cubic metres will be required).

Regards,   John G.		(alias 'megaJOHN')
v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v
  John Geremin,  PDP-11 Support Consultant,  MEGATRONICS, Aust.
IN%"[email-masked]"     voice: 61-2- 764 4855  (9am-9pm)
-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-

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From: [email-masked] (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Date: 18 Feb 1993 20:23:48 GMT

> >very, uh, commodius, little take-anywhere machine. Batteries not required).

I wonder.  What sort of efficiencies would you get from a methane
or butane fuel cell, or catalytic generator? Would it be an improvement
on rechargeable batteries?

Just top up from a cigarette lighter refill when necessary?

Steve

-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: [email-masked]	   BIX: smckinty

---

From: [email-masked] (Megan B Gentry)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 05:45:47 GMT

>I have an 11/70, about 8 11/34s, 3 PDP-8es misc 'micros' and a KL-10E

I have (on the unibus side):
	  11/10
	  11/34
	  11/40

and on the qbus side:
	2 11/23+
	  11/53
	  11/73
	3 11/83
	  MV3600

all of the qbus machines are on ethernet, with most of the -11's
running RT-11 with some home-grown RT Ethernet networking software.

>> members. Maybe a posting will help me put together an address list.

Put me down as well, I don't have anything I'm looking for right now,
but I have lots of spare qbus boards (collected over the years).

					Megan

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From: [email-masked] (Megan B Gentry)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 06:13:30 GMT

>hoping one day to have some resources to contribute to a computer museum.

	I preferred a front panel as well, it was really hard to
	see all the 11/70's panels removed and replaced with the
	boring, unfriendly 'remote diagnostic' panel.

>SIG for such interesting machines (and their owners). 

	Can anything of interest be passed on to this newsgroup?

>guess how much space (in cubic metres will be required).

	Would that be one of everything as in *ALL* the magtapes
	*ALL* the disks, etc?  That would be one MASSIVE machine,
	and I don't think one single bus can handle it.

	Or is it one of everything as in a magtape, a deccassette,
	a paper-tape reader, a fixed disk, a removable disk, etc.

	This latters seems more possible.  Not to mention the fact
	that some options were on qbus and not unibus (or vice
	versa).  You'll either need two machines, or a u-q
	converter.

	Oh yes, don't forget graphics like the VT11 and the VSV11.

					Megan

	ps.  and for operating systems, why not ALL of the pdp-11
	systems.  One disk could be RT-11, one RSTS, one RSX, one
	Mumps, one Ultrix-11, one for dos/batch, etc.  Think about
	the fact that you would then have in one place a system
	which could convert ANYTHING to ANYTHING else.

	pps. In rt-11 development years ago, we tried to have one
	of everything represented in our development lab.  At the
	time, the common media was RL02, but we had most other
	devices available.

---

From: [email-masked] (Adam Thompson)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1993 05:13:51 GMT

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Alan Wm Paeth) writes:

>... Or a Hammond B-3 organ with Leslie Speakers?

There are a few people in Winnipeg (or Steinbach) [Manitoba] who may have leads
on that... I'd try Yamaha here in town, at (204)786-2461.  To get to someone
who knows what a Hammon B-3 or Leslie is, start off the conversation with
"I understand you sell Church Organs now..."  [ie: Bypass the SalesDroids who
think PCM means Perfect Contemporary Music... There is *one* salesperson who
is old enough to have dealt in those lines!]   For leslie speakers, contact
the "church organ" salesman at J.J.H.McLean(don't have the ph# handy) -- when
I was in there two weeks ago, they had an old Hammond-made Leslie speaker,
with the yamaha-style plug.  (As opposed to the ...??...square plug - Hammonds
used the round plug.)

>members. Maybe a posting will help me put together an address list.

Used to be, if you wanted anything old, obsolete, or obscure, there was always
somewhere you could find what you were looking for.  In Winnipeg, there was
J&J's - they did business internationally.  But these type of places always 
seem to vanish ... most of 'em within the last 4 or 5 years.  So much for the
"Green" concept of recylcling... Yeah! I got it -- I'll use my old VIC-20's as
the processor in my answering machine -- save two parts, save a species... :-) :-)

-Adam Thompson
 [email-masked]
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Adam Thompson        University of Manitoba        Computer Services |
| <[email-masked]>                OLC Project - Unix Group |
|    UNIX -- where you can do anything in two keystrokes, or less...   |

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 23 Feb 93 01:03:49 AEST

> 	boring, unfriendly 'remote diagnostic' panel.
		Fortunately many OZ customers were able to avoid 
		the 'Rem.diag.' panels so I have some useful 11/70s.
 
> 	Can anything of interest be passed on to this newsgroup?
		I hope so - access to good technical information 
		is getting harder all the time. The DECUS spirit will
		really be encapsulated in these vintage 'home systems'.

>>Australia is hoping to set up "a PDP-11 with one of everything on it"... 
> 
		Max has initially suggested 'one of each mass 
		storage device. eg RP02, RP03, RP04, RP05, RP06, RP07.
 		
> 	versa).  You'll either need two machines, or a u-q
		Initial thought is an 11/40 or similar - definitely
		UNIBUS for the first one - then it will get easier.
		We may just create a world wide demand for UNIBUS
		repeaters and BA11 Expansion boxes.

		Rumour has it that Digital Australia has shed 20% 
		of their staff and has large empty spaces in the new
		headquarters that needs to be filled with intelligent
		systems.
> 	Oh yes, don't forget graphics like the VT11 and the VSV11.
		Phase II for the small stuff like comms and terminals.

> 	which could convert ANYTHING to ANYTHING else.
		I fear we may need a RP04 disk before we can fit 
		ALL the device drivers for the SYSGEN. Then we will 
		probably need I & D space for the monitor image - 
		not to mention the common SWAP space on each disk.

> 	time, the common media was RL02, but we had most other

		I have come across a 'SITE PREPARATION' worksheet
		and a 'SYSTEM CONFIGURATION' worksheet from 1975
		and I expect to need multiple copies of both
		before we even start to roll any hardware in.
		Can you supply us with the AI configuring program
		that was used to stop the sales people selling
		impossible configurations. We are assuming that
		one-of-each is not impossible. 8-),:-} etc.

---

From: [email-masked] (Scott Almburg)
Date: 23 Feb 1993 06:57:34 GMT

well,  I have 2 VAX 750's  at  home  plus  some  spare parts from another
one.  2 RA80's  and  a TU80  tape  drive  make it a minimul system.

The  truck rental  to move  them here cost  more  than the "iron".

When  powered  on,  the  lights  flicker.

When  powered on, the system  makes a good space heater..

The  CPU  shares a circuit with the refrigerator,  so  I can  run the
VAX  or the refrigerator, but not both....

Scott Almburg

---

From: [email-masked] (Megan B Gentry)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 08:03:44 GMT

>		one-of-each is not impossible. 8-),:-} etc.

I think I have soime copies of *a* system configuration worksheet, but
it may be the qbus version.

As for a program, we started to do something like it for RT-11 years
ago, but it didn't really get off the ground.  I think RSX had something
called 'autoconfig' which reported what you had (if reasonable things
were at reasonable places).

					Megan

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 25 Feb 93 10:32:32 CST

> 	and I don't think one single bus can handle it.

Of course, one of everything would include a unibus expansion box, and a 
unibus repeater ;-)

> 	a paper-tape reader, a fixed disk, a removable disk, etc.

I assume he means one of each disc type, plus magtapes at 800, 1600, 6250, 
dectapes, cassettes.  Sorry John, we threw out a pdp11 dectape system a few 
years back :-(

Regards,

John Bennett                                   [email-masked]
Head, I.T. Services Development                Phone : +61 8 259 5292
Corporate Information Systems                  FAX   : +61 8 259 5537
DEFENCE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANISATION    Postal: Bld 73 Labs Area
AUSTRALIA                                              PO Box 1500 Salisbury 
                                                       South Australia  5108
                                                       AUSTRALIA

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 25 Feb 93 10:39:01 CST

> 		repeaters and BA11 Expansion boxes.

YES !!  An 11/40 (I still have one here, runnable) running RSTS/E of course.
Actually RSTS/E is very flexible, I found a useful program for 
examining/fixing tapes, it's in the Decus Library called TAPE, I still have it
on 1600 BPI tape, written in basic plus of course. 

Regards,