Subject: PDP-8/E systems available

From: [email-masked] (Douglas W. Jones)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 17:55:12 GMT

George Roettger in Cleveland has sent me a list of the parts he has,
and going over it, I've concluded that he has something like the
following available PDP-8/E systems and parts:

He has 2 PDP-8/E systems with the following approximate configurations
(approximate because his list of board numbers appears to have been in
error in a few places, and because some boards are un-numbered):

  M8300 -- CPU registers
  M8310 -- CPU register control
  M8330 -- CPU timing control
  M8655 -- console terminal interface
  M8655 -- printer interface
  M8655 -- modem interface
  M7104 \
  M7105  > 3 board set for RK8E disk interface (for RK0x disk drives).
  M7106 /
  M837  -- memory management unit
  M860  -- RFI shield
  G111  \
  G645   > 3 board set for 8K of core memory
  G233  /  (the G111 is the only one with it's name on the handle)
  G111  \
  G645   > 3 board set for 8K of core memory
  G233  /  (the G111 is the only one with it's name on the handle)
  M8320 -- Bus Loads

I have recommended to him that he try to dispose of the above as systems,
and not break them up.  In addition, he appears to have the following
OMNIBUS boards which I have recommended that he make available separately
from the systems from which they were taken:

  G104  \
  G619   > 4K memory, 2 spare sets.
  G227  /

  G111  \
  G645   > 8K memory, 2 spare sets. (I made an offer on one set!)
  G233  /

  M518  \  Programmable realtime clock, 3 spare sets.
  M860  /

  M8340 \  Extended Arithmetic Element (multiply/divide hardware)
  M8341 /  2 spare sets.  (I made an offer on one set!)

  M8350 -  External I/O bus interface, 2 spares.

  M841  -- Line printer control, 1 spare.

  M847  -- Bootstrap loader, 1 spare, programmed for RK8E?

  M8655 -- Serial port, 14 spares.

In addition, he has two VT05 terminals, a TTY, some RK04 drives, and a
boatload of FlipChip logic cards.  I suspect that the cards were pulled
from whatever the M8350 was interfaced to, but it's apparently a bit late
to figure out what was there.  Here is his list of flip-chip boards:

   G180  G380  G381A G736  G890  G936  G938  M101  M103  M105  M111
   M112  M113  M115  M116  M117  M119  M121  M133  M135  M137  M139
   M155  M155  M162  M169  M205  M216  M238  M243  M302  M306  M405
   M523  M597  M606  M611  M623  M697  M783  M784  M796  M798  M908-YB
   M910  M921  M983  M984

In addition, he has some boards I don't recognize.  Has an old PDP-11
system been mixed into the pile of surplus he bought?  Here are the
odd ones:

   M1103 M1713 M7000 M7001 M7002 M7004 M7007 M7286 M7700 M7700J
   M7701 M7702 M7710 M7712 M7713 M7715 M7716 M7717 M7721 M7724
   M7760-P3 REV F    M7761 M7821 M7821

If you can use any of this stuff, please contact George
Roettger at (216) 632-5382 after 6:00 PM or send him E-mail
at [email-masked]

My advice to him was that it would be fair to ask about $5 per omnibus
circuit board to cover shipping of individual boards.  I didn't suggest
any prices to him for the other stuff.  My guess is that if you showed
up on his doorstep, he'd be perfectly willing to give you a complete
PDP-8 system configured as listed above for under $100, including a
vintage VT05 or Teletype as part of the deal.

					Doug Jones
					[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Charles Lasner)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 00:49:11 GMT

>  M7105  > 3 board set for RK8E disk interface (for RK0x disk drives).
For RK05's (AA,F,J)

>  M837  -- memory management unit
M869?

>  G233  /  (the G111 is the only one with it's name on the handle)
I think middle boards of core stack sets are Hxxx?  In any case, don't ever
break up sets of tweaked/tuned cards.

>  G619   > 4K memory, 2 spare sets.

See above comments about 8K stacks.

>  G645   > 8K memory, 2 spare sets. (I made an offer on one set!)

ditto.

>  M841  -- Line printer control, 1 spare.
Note: data products LPT: only!  also known as "LE8" curiously, not LE8E as
would be expected.  Perhaps because there never was a specific LE8/I before,
just the LP08.

>  M847  -- Bootstrap loader, 1 spare, programmed for RK8E?

If from DEC, then could be.  If from DECUS, could be my code as submitted
in DECUS 8-7xx, etc.

>In addition, he has two VT05 terminals, a TTY, some RK04 drives, and a
                                                     RK05?

>   M523  M597  M606  M611  M623  M697  M783  M784  M796  M798  M908-YB

Sounds like a positive bus peripheral of some sort, perhaps a TR05-type
magtape controller; would explain all the funny G modules.

>   M7760-P3 REV F    M7761 M7821 M7821

M7000-7004 are VT05 spares.  M7821 is an -11 Unibus interrupt module.
>vintage VT05 or Teletype as part of the deal.

Perhaps a little high.  Maybe OK price for smaller "orders".

cjl

---

From: jones@pyrite (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 14:06:15 GMT

>From article <[email-masked]>,
by [email-masked] (Charles Lasner):
> In article <[email-masked]>
> [email-masked] (Douglas W. Jones) writes:

>>George Roettger in Cleveland has sent me a list of the parts he has ...

>>In addition, he has two VT05 terminals, a TTY, some RK04 drives, ...
>                                                      RK05?

No, he said RK04.  My understanding is that the rack-mounted PDP-8 systems
have RK05 drives in the racks, and that these RK04 drives are in addition
to the other stuff.  As I said, the auxiliary pile George Roettger mentioned
appears to have come not only from the PDP-8 systems he has, but from other
systems as well, such as the PDP-11 that gave up it's M7821 to his pile.

My advice to him was that it would be fair to ask about $5 per omnibus
circuit board to cover shipping of individual boards.
> Perhaps a little high.  Maybe OK price for smaller "orders".

I told him that parts for junk computer systems are priced like parts for
old cars.  To get one part, you pay a premium.  To get the whole car, you
may be paid to haul it away.  He bought the pile of old hardware for $200
(a bit high!) from someone who was about to break it up as recyclable
scrap.  They'd already ripped apart most of the disk packs to split out the
aluminum parts for recycling.
					Doug Jones
					[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Charles Lasner)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 20:56:17 GMT

>systems as well, such as the PDP-11 that gave up it's M7821 to his pile.

The RK04 is one of those obscure drives used on the RK11 controllers predating
the RK11D.  At first they even used the RK01 (which was also used on the
PDP-8 as a posibus peripheral called the RK08, an immense collection of
small M-series cards, etc.).

Later drives were mostly made by Diablo.  I never got straight which were
RK02,3,4, just that one of them was essentially compatible with the RK05
at the media level and presumably nearly so at the programming level.  (The
RK11D supports 8 drives; the RK11C is 4 drives maximum.  The RK05 has a
compatibility signal within it so that it can work with either the RK11D and
RKS8E and RK8L OR the RK11C and RK8E.

In any case, if the above is true, this helps to confirm where the modules
came from, likely an early RK11 controller (RK11C or earlier).

Other than the RK01 for the RK08, the -8 never ran any of these drives, since
the next PDP-8 generation of disks was the RK8E and RK05.

cjl

---

From: [email-masked] (PDP11 Hacker .....)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 10:03:00 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Charles Lasner) writes...
>small M-series cards, etc.).

According to my DEC manuals (PDP11-related, sorry), the RK04 is the low density
(1.2Mbyte) version of the RK05. It's electrically and mechanically very similar

>RKS8E and RK8L OR the RK11C and RK8E.

The RK02 and RK03 were diablo model 30's. The RK02 was low density, and the
RK03 was high density. Each of these used the 1of4 select lines used by the
RK11-C. The RK11-D used a 3 wire binary select system, and as you say, there
was a select line in the RK05. However, the RK11-C had 2 drive connectors, and
supported 4 drives on each, for a total of 8 drives (I'm still running one).
High and low density drives were not media compatable.

>came from, likely an early RK11 controller (RK11C or earlier).

Possible. The RK11-C is a great load of flip-chips. 

>the next PDP-8 generation of disks was the RK8E and RK05.

I've never seen an RK04 on a PDP11 either. I have run Diablo model 30's with a
home-made cable off my RK11-C.

-tony