Subject: pdp8e documentation wanted

From: [email-masked] (Jeff Ondich)
Date: 1 Oct 93 17:45:51 GMT

I would like to get any PDP8E documentation I can find.  In particular, I  
am interested in circuit diagrams.  If you have any suggestions on how to  
proceed, I'd appreciate hearing them.  If you have documentation you want  
to unload, I'd like to hear that, too.

By the way, I called DEC, and they want $2000 for the circuit diagrams.   
(Really--that's three zeros after the two.)

Thanks,

Jeff Ondich
Carleton College
Northfield, MN
(507) 663-4364
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Charles Lasner)
Date: 3 Oct 1993 15:34:00 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>(Really--that's three zeros after the two.)

DEC has recently changed its policy about much documentation.  Perhaps you can
indicate which part of DEC had the nerve to quote you a price based on the
arbitrary spiraling of old catalog prices, and doesn't want to listen to the
rest of the company's ideas about good will, etc.  By directing this 
unreasonable action to the proper channels, perhaps we can get the stuff
released, etc.  DEC is still so big a company that the standard lack of
communications applies.

Once I had to point out a related problem:

DECtape guide parts had a certain price, and there was a general policy of
inching up all prices on parts.  It was unreasonable, but at least it was
sort-of gradual.  This particular part then was subject to a typo, in part
because of confusing its price/quantity with something else apparently
sold in quantities of 10.  In any case, the price of this part was mistakenly
changed.  The part in question has a left and a right.  For years the price
was the same, and the unaffected one was merely subjected to the price creep
all generally were, etc., but the other one was now suddenly 8 times the 
price of the other!

I had numerous conversations with a whole bunch of DEC employees.  Some had
"creative" answers such as their "proof" that it was so much more difficult
to manufacture the left one than the right one.  (The fact that I could
produce the entire parts price history for both items going back for 10 years
showing perfect tracking until a specific typo didn't phase them.)

Some had noise like "they agreed it was wrong but couldn't do anything about
it" or equivalent.  The one I finally dealt with said that he had the ability
to make a "special" order so that I could get it at the intended price, but
that this was a "one-time deal" and to not expect it to apply to any other
aspects of the pricing book, even if it was a similar mistake.  And further
he wouldn't even try to have the price book corrected, etc.

As is predictable, the type price stuck, and was then subjected to many
iterations of being jacked up, often at unconscionable increments, although
no worse than any other comparable part.  (All of this is to harass you into
buying new equipment.)  So, the last time I saw both parts, one was priced
by thieves, and the other was highway robbery, about 10 and 80 times what
they were worth.

Obviously, this is the work of a department out of control, but within DEC
this sort of thing happens.  This latest problem with prints prices may
represent an analogous situation.

In any case, DEC's recent attitude is that the old stuff is non-commercial
and groups like ours should have access to them.  $2000 price tags on what
was a $30 set of prints is not exactly access in my book!  So, perhaps by
calling all of this sort of thing out to upper suits could get the stuff
out of there, perhaps for free!

I nominate Doug Jones for this one, since he would then be able to distribute
copies of it to all of us who desire it, etc.

I have here in my hands right now what in fact the poster may be looking for:

This is revision AE of the PDP-8/e print set from 9/75.  Unlike most of the
prior prints, this is not in an orange cover, but rather has a blue cover 
without the peek-a-boo hole in it (that allowed you to see what print set
it was, yet the front cover is generic).  The first printset page has the
appropriate printing in the upper-right corner so it could be used with an
orange cover sheet.  Over the blue page is a clear plastic sheet to protect
it and the whole thing is held together by a plastic 3-hole u-shaped
thingie that is essentially a binder spine.  It is white, and has the
Digital logo on the edge.  (The previous orange types were usually held with
only one large staple, which often ripped out, so this is clearly an
improvement.  I have seen other prints of this type, such as RX02, but this
is the only 8/e print set I've seen done this way.)

If it's carefully taken apart and restored by someone with a long-page
copier (possibly reduced?  It's likely these are in turn already reduced
down from the typical large drafting prints DEC used to actually distribute
as loose sheets.  I actually have a couple of those, but only of very old
vintage cards, etc.) then it could be distributed.

So, Doug, how's your connections on getting print sets reprinted with
permission?

cjl

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 4 Oct 93 09:48:04 MDT

> So, Doug, how's your connections on getting print sets reprinted with

What we really need to be able to do is scan 'em and stash 'em in an 
archive somewhere....
-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Roger Ivie      | Don't think of it as a 'new' computer, think of it as
[email-masked] |     'obsolete-ready'

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From: [email-masked] (Todd Enders A262 857-3018)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 19:36:36 GMT

In fact, why limit one's self to pdp8's?  I, for one, would *love* to
see the print set for something like a pdp9, or a pdp10 of any flavour.  A
wall-sized schematic of the Instruction Set Processor on a KA10 would be
just *too* cool!

Todd     [email-masked]