Subject: Re: leg/post vise

From: "daryl (d.a.) bender" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 12:04:00 -0400 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.516:26.07.96.16.17.01]

$100 seems like a lot to me too. They normally go for $65 around here 
and if you have your eye open you can do better. At a local Sunday flea 
market here I got a 4.5" for $5 at the end of the day. I don't think the 
guy knew the market and he certainly didn't want to lug the thing back 
home again. We both walked away happy (Actually he didn't walk away and 
by the time I got back to the car I was staggering - but we were both 
happy) 8^) 

Daryl.  

In message " tools", [email-masked] writes:

>That seems kind of a lot for a post vise, unless it's in excellent
>condition, and a BIG one, jaws of 5" or more, will weigh around a 
hundred
>pounds, and work well, jaws will occlude pretty well, and the spring 
>isn't broken or missing.  That still seems like a lot of money to me.
>I paid 60 at a farm sale for a 100 pounder, and I use it all the time.
>Anchored out in the middle of the room, have bent 3/4 X 2 cold, with a
>long bar.  It complained a little, but did the job!  Smaller, like 40 
to
>60 pounds, with 3 inch jaws work very well bolted to the bench, makes
>much less work when you have a lot of filing to do.
>  Bob
>

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From: "daryl (d.a.) bender" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 21:42:00 -0400 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.922:27.07.96.01.44.23]

Careful, having put down the Centaur PB-50 (mainly for the 3400rpm vs 
1725rpm they coulda put on for equal cost) I have to come to thier 
defense here for two reasons. There is a big difference between what an 
item costs to make (hence sell new for) and what the beat-up used market 
is. I can also (and have many times) buy and drive a car for $500. Yet 
these companies want to sell new ones for $10,000-30,000, imagine that 
8^). 
Right now they probably don't sell many new vises but if blacksmithing 
grows and the used stuff is gone the new stuff will be bought and the 
prices will be paid. However if it grows enough and the demand increases 
the price might drop a bit too. Right now you (or whomever) are paying 
for new production of a limited market item (sound like Ferrari) and 
therefore the price is high. My bet is Centaur's cost to buy that item 
is also high because the guy (or company) making it has an inefficient 1 
or 2 at a time set-up. Bump up demand to 100/day, the set-up changes and 
the cost comes down. High cost is the down side of being in an exclusive 
field of artistic and highly talented individuals! 8^)

Daryl - of $5 vise fame  

In message " leg/post vise", [email-masked] writes:

>>$100 seems like a lot to me too.
>
>If you think $100 is a lot check out the Centaur catalog! You can get a
>nice 6" leg vice for $700.00. I wonder how many they sell for that?
>
>Bob

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:59:17 -0600

>>nice 6" leg vice for $700.00. I wonder how many they sell for that?

I agree. My comment was not so much a jab at Centaur as it was a comment
that a $100.00 vice was cheap. I am often surprised by  comments on the
VALUE of used tools: anvils, forges, vices, swage blocks, cones and others.
Just because you can get a deal occasionally doesn't mean that a good used
anvil isn't "worth" $2.00 per pound. I think they are cheap at that price.

Blacksmithing has grown tremendously in the past twenty years and shows no
sign of slowing any time soon. Buying anvils at $2.00 per pound today (or
vices for $100.00) will look like a steal (no pun intended) twenty years
from now.

If you are a working smith a $100.00 vice will pay for itself the first
week you have it.

Bob (again)

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From: Jim McCarty <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:10:54 -0500

> field of artistic and highly talented individuals! 8^)

I think when the book on how blacksmithing was resurected is written a 
chapter will be written about Centaur forge which did a huge part in 
keeping it alive. Where else can you buy EZ Weld? Ditto for the 
farriers whom we love to slam...

-- 
Jim McCarty
Father Helias Forge
Taos, MO
Editor Rural Missouri Magazine
Newsletter editor, Blacksmiths Association of Missouri

³Foolish consistencies are the hobgoblins of little minds³

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From: willie calhoun <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:25:40 -0500

At 10:10 AM 8/27/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't mind paying a fair price for a good tool.  I hate like the dickens
to buy antiques.

Willie Calhoun
Earth-Fire Forge

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From: "Marrin T. Fleet" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:06:27 CST6CDT

> >I don't mind paying a fair price for a good tool.  I hate like the dickens

And I hate like the dickens to buy a tool at more than it is worth!
I enjoy the 'antiques', particularly when the 'antique' is sufficiently 
used that it has little or no value as a collectible.   Additionally, 
one of the things I enjoy is learning to understand the processes of 
the past.  When I use an old tool, I try to do so respectfully, and 
in such a way as to do no harm to the tool.  I try to imagine a 
long-past previous owner of the tool using it.  In this way, the tool 
seems to 'speak' to me.  Yes, I  know, tools can't talk ... or can 
they?  In any case, I see nothing wrong, and a great deal right in 
using an antique, in a respectfull manner.

Just my 2cts.

Marrin T. Fleet
[email-masked]
Admin. Computing Services
The University of Memphis
Memphis, Tennessee  38152
901-678-3604

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From: willie calhoun <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:08:14 -0500

At 01:06 PM 8/28/96 CST6CDT, you wrote:
>When I said that I hate to buy antiques I meant finding, say, a 6" post
vise that has the spring, screw, and mount missing.  Because it is old they
want $800 for it.  As they say "but it is an antique!"  Nurts to them.  I
buy tools, not antiques.

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From: "Marrin T. Fleet" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:20:31 CST6CDT

> want $800 for it.  As they say "but it is an antique!"  Nurts to them.  I

I couldn't agree more!  Like you, I buy tools.  I also (almost) never 
deal with antique shops.  There are some specialty antiques dealers 
who will buy and sell 'users' for what they are really worth, however.
While I have bought a few collectable antiques, they must appeal to 
me for some other reason, and a d*** good one at that! 
Marrin T. Fleet
[email-masked]
Admin. Computing Services
The University of Memphis
Memphis, Tennessee  38152
901-678-3604

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From: "Marrin T. Fleet" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 08:42:34 CST6CDT

You wrote:

> Id have to dissagree a little here. I stop by "mom & pop antique" shops
> anytime I can. I avoid the hi-falutin gallerys but Ive gotten some really
> good deals on tools bot old and new at these type places. 

The truth in your words is the reason for the "(almost)" in my post.  
I do admit to at least LOOKING in many smaller shops.  The larger, 
more sophisticated shops rarely deal in tools unless they are really top dollar 
highly collectable items, which I'm not looking for anyway.    

> Another good place to check is pawn shops. A friend of mine just got a $1300
> plasma cutter for $200 from a pawn dealer that had no idea what she had. The
> thing was almost brand new. Just never know.....

Now there is something I HAVE done in the past!  Most of my newer 
tools are woodworking tools rather than blacksmithing ones.  Circular 
saws, mechanics tools, air nailers -- almost anything that can be 
carried into a shop and pawned!   At one time Memphis had more pawn 
shops than churches!  Don't be afraid to haggle with pawn shp owners, 
either.  Some leave the stub of the original pawn ticket on the item, 
and this shows the date the item was pawned.  Especially if he has 
had it a while, HAGGLE!  

I guess the moral of this thread might be to look for bargains in 
unexpected places, and to make the most of them when you find them!

Marrin T. Fleet

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From: Mike Linn <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 21:47:31 -0500

At 02:20 PM 8/28/96 CST6CDT, you wrote:
>I also (almost) never deal with antique shops. 

Id have to dissagree a little here. I stop by "mom & pop antique" shops
anytime I can. I avoid the hi-falutin gallerys but Ive gotten some really
good deals on tools bot old and new at these type places. Most seem to be
more fleamarket than antique shop, but you dont know that till you stop. I
talk to the proprietors and hand out my biz cards to them. They keep an
eyeout for things that come in and at auctions, and Im the first on the
scene after a phone call. Ive also gotten a few commissions through this
route. A lot of these places are overpriced and a few are really low priced
but you gotta check 'em out and don't be afraid to dicker with them.

mike
                                    _///_
                                   /(o o)\
===============================o000o=(_)=o000o====
               Michael Linn 
            Artisan Blacksmith
              AFC Web Master
 http://www.the-matrix.com/afc/index.html
==================================================

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From: willie calhoun <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:14:29 -0500

At 02:20 PM 8/28/96 CST6CDT, you wrote:
>Around here too many of the flea market vendors are selling antiques.

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From: [email-masked] (Elton O Grubbs)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 18:41:30 -0700

You wrote: 
>>>=20
>>I think when the book on how blacksmithing was resurected is written 
a=20
>>chapter will be written about Centaur forge which did a huge part 
in=20
>>keeping it alive. Where else can you buy EZ Weld? Ditto for the=20
>>--=20
>>=B3Foolish consistencies are the hobgoblins of little minds=B3
>>
>>
You buy junk. You sell antiques.

Buster       o  o
               ^
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