Subject: Re: marks of the hammer

From: [email-masked] (George Dixon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 20:55:57 -0500

>An old blacksmith friend of mine, who learned his trade from, my great,
>uncle (and I have some of his hand forged pieces) used to say (he
>is dead now) "that hammer marks were a sign of sloppy work and use of
>the hammer.  Any smith can make hammer marks, but only the best can forge
>and weld where there are no visible marks.  It is all in the way one
>holds the hammer."
>
It is ironic that what we percieve today as an asthetic  perspective,
"worked iron", was in 'period' times the result of refining or resizing the
available stock prior to doing the project.  To those smiths of old,
reworking was an step done out of pure necessity and done as cleanly as
possible.
Conversly, todays mill stock, perfect in its mechanical regularity looks
cold and boring in a project.  While I am not a fan of 'hammer marks',
especially those done cold for effect, I can't handle sending work out of
my shop looking like its stock just came off the shelf.   I rework every
inch of every piece I use, hot and by hand to break the edges, work the
surface  and soften the mechanical look of stock steel.  Then the
project-specific aspects begin.
 The hammer work is done as carefully as the the resizing of old was done,
marks are not imposed, but the result is totally different than mill stock
when the job is done.  The 1500lbs of steel that is being finished in a
railing project all went through the forge, was reworked and then   forged
to effect.  A 1" square railing post may have little else done to it but an
upset on the end, but it all goes through this process  otherwise the upset
is an effect-on-a-stick to me.
Take a bar, say 5/8" square and a foot long to a forging heat and gently
break the edges and rehammer the surface.  Straighten it and lay it next to
a foot of  5/8" square mill stock and you'll see what I mean.  Hand sand it
and you'll fall in love..........
George Dixon

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 19:43:29 -0500

Maybe marks from the hammer were seen less in older work because much of it
was done by helpers with sledges and the flatter tool was a natural way to
smooth the coarser work done by the sledge.  Some of this may be "chicken or
egg" logic, but since EVERYTHING was handmade for most of human history, the
natural striving for perfection may have led some 'smiths to make every
attempt to achieve nirvana (no hammer marks).  A lot of this may have also
depended on the amount of time allotted to finish the piece, so art pieces
would have had smoother finishes than agricultural work.  I have examined
pieces made on the farm which show no attempt at cleaning up hammer marks
past the point of functionality.  Anyone care to comment? 

hollis

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From: [email-masked] (MR WILLIAM A HOCHELLA)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 08:34:45 EST

To All,
I have found, like so many others, that there is little life in 
pieces that are literally mark free. If you are duplicating whiteware,
 the smoother you would want to make the forged work in order to 
minimize the time spent developing the white or oxide free surface. 
This is a whole other case.
I do decorative stuff, hooks, s-hooks with square knots in the middle,
 the occasional mirror frame, fire tools, etc. I will work the entire 
surface independent of the size or condition of the stock used. I do 
this because it adds texture, i.e., life to the work. I once heard a 
story about a young man from Italy who upon being asked to draw a 
taper on a 1" bar, pulled a 2" piece from the stock rack and first 
made the 1" stock even though 1" was available. When asked why, he 
said that was the way he was taught in the old country. The real 
reason he did it that way was the worked 1" section had minor 
variations in dimension and texture, life. Not that hammer marks were 
made on purpose but to add that extra dimension to the work.
This arguement can be extended to what is blacksmithing all about. If 
you bend, cut and paste, that is metal working or fabrication. If you 
draw out the ends of the scroll first, that is blacksmithing. If a 
smith in 1600 had an oxy/fuel gas torch, I am sure that he would have 
used it well. If someone is making a gate today and he has to put a 
stick to it, he should do it well too.

Regards,

Bill Hochella

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From: "Bruce M. Freeman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 10:57:08 -0500

At 07:43 PM 3/22/96 -0500, you wrote:
>A lot of this may have also

Seems pretty clear that while a professional blacksmith might strive for
perfection, he also has to consider the value of his time.  An item like a
hinge or hasp, out there for all to see is one thing.  A harrow tine is
something else entirely.  I'm sure a farmer wouldn't want to PAY extra for a
beautiful tine -- so long as it worked.  Perfection relates to the purpose,
not just to the form.
Bruce

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From: Mike Linn <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 96 15:51 EST

I dont think most customers could afford work with no hammer marks.
The time required to dress up the piece would drive the cost through the
stratosphere. I agree though, that with the advent of "machine smithing" cut
and weld type items most customers i speak to think of hammer marks as a
novelty to show to there friends, "see i have a real handmade piece".

mike
                                    _///_
                                   /(o o)\
===============================o000o=(_)=o000o====
               Michael Linn 
            Artisian Blacksmith
              AFC Web Master
 http://www.the-matrix.com/afc/index.html
==================================================
Smile, it makes people wonder what you've been up to.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 22:18:42 -0500

overall working is a great idea.  thanks.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 22:51:59 -0500

In a message dated 96-03-30 23:03:28 EST, [email-masked] (Chris Kilpatrick)
writes:

>Guys, you are missing the point!  Realize that you are artisans, that 
>means your work has to be commercial viable!  I hope you all are 
>savvy enough to make what sells.  The question is not hammer marks 
>or no hammer marks, but do you have the expertise to do it both ways 
>and the wisdom to know when each is best.  Anyone can fight for a 
>stylistic view, the artisan is wise enough to do them all!
>
>

Facts with a whole lot cents behind them !