Subject: Re: Forging Titanium

From: [email-masked] (Marc Davis III)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:30:40 -0700

You wrote: 
>
>
>> I would appreciate it if someone could direct me to a book or other
>> resource with information and techniques about forging titanium. 
Thanks.
>
>I remember hearing some discussion of dangerous fumes caused by
>forging titanium here on TheForge. Anybody else remember, or am I full
>of it?
>
>
>--
>Steven O. Smith
>[email-masked]
>
I haven't done any reserch of my own but, Yuri (the blacksmith from 
Isreal (yes I know I can't spell} that did the demo at the ABANA 
conference in Alfred ) said You cannot forge titanium. When it gets hot 
it crumbles upon an impact. The purpose was to make drift by grinding 
the end. He had one that he kept pounding through 2" bar after bar and 
it heated up very little and did not dull. his was made from an armor 
perecing shell. I'm concerned about the grade. I'll bet shells are made 
of the best grade whatever that is. This supply is grade 2. does anyone 
know the different grades.

Thanks 

Marc3

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From: [email-masked] (Dan Hughes)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:50:44 -0400

>know the different grades.
I believe that what he was talking about was a Tungsten alloy not titanium.
Titanium is not used in armor piercing shells.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:02:19 -0400

To All,
There was a line of correspondence on titanium about 2-3 months ago. The
issue was brought up about which alloys give off fumes that make you sick.
That was never resolved. CP, commercially pure, Grades 1, 2, or 3 is
available, very easy to forge and is non-toxic. Heat it to lemon yellow and
forge until you feel it stop moving. It is a distinct transformation point.
Forging it when it is cold is very unrewarding. Thin sections tend to break
off.  It may be too easy to fogre as it does get very soft. It does not forge
like steel. It will tend to fold over. Lighten up on ther hammer and hit it
harder. The oxide is white to tan and very adherent. It will wear wire
brushes down. The best way ti remove the oxide is with sand blasting. It will
throw white sparks.      I did not go thriugh the pricing on the titanium
bars recently offered but if the price is about $30/ pound, it is about
right. 

Good Luck,

Hochewa

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From: Mike Linn <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 19:35:46 -0500

At 02:30 PM 7/25/96 -0700, you wrote:

>it crumbles upon an impact. 

I know for a fact Titanium can be forged. It has a very narrow forging temp
range but it can be forged. I saw Gavin Harris (Alfred demonstrator) forge a
Titanium walking stick on a 25 lb power hammer at one of our forge meetings.
At forging temp (obtained in a coal forge) the Ti forged easier than steel,
but when the lower forging temp was reached the stuff didnt budge. 

It was really neat to hear the Ti drop below forging temp, and it would
occur between hammer blows, thump,thump,thump,clang, clang. It immediatly
hardend up. If you get the Ti too hot it will crumble and break-up. Gavin
demo'ed making a titanium BBQ fork at Alfred and got one of the tines to hot
and it started coming apart. So he broke it off and made it into a steak
turner :)

I will try to find out what type he was using and where he got it, and ill
post it later.

mike

                                    _///_
                                   /(o o)\
===============================o000o=(_)=o000o====
               Michael Linn 
            Artisan Blacksmith
              AFC Web Master
 http://www.the-matrix.com/afc/index.html
==================================================
Smile, it makes people wonder what you've been up to.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 12:41:45 -0400

Titanium is forged for medical and aerospace use by many closed die forgers.
 I watched  titanium being forged on a large board drop hammer just last
week, and it did not appear that they did anything different than when I have
seen them forge stainless or cobalt base metals.  I dont know all of the
grades, but do know that it is alloyed with other elements primarily to
stabilize the structure as either alpha, apha-beta or beta phase.  The grade
designation is usually a tipoff to its analysis, ie, CP stands for
commercially pure, and I do know that this is the form easiest to fabricate.
 6-4 Ti, is 6% aluminum, and 4% Vanadium (alpha-beta).  Ti-5-2.5 is 5%
aluminum and 2.5% tin and is an alpha grade.  Ti3-13-11 is 3% al. 13%
vanadium and 11% chrome and a Beta grade.  Hope this helps.  Just curious,
what do you plan to make from Titanium?
Mike Schermerhorn
PS oh yea, it has a wicked memory.  I did straighten a piece cold on the
anvil for a guy who brought it back to me a few weeks later, almost a crooked
as before I straightened it.

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From: [email-masked] (Dan Hughes)
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:52:01 -0400

Just curious,
>what do you plan to make from Titanium?

I had no real plans. I do have a few pieces with which I may do something,
but mostly I am just curious.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 16:26:25 -0500

I'm glad that Yuri didn't talk to Clifton Ralph about not being to forge
titanium,  he has brought a set of tongs that he forged out of it to one of
our IBA hammer-ins.  

Mark Thomas

>You wrote: 
snip....

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From: [email-masked] (MR WILLIAM A HOCHELLA)
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:08:07, -0500

To All, Dan and Mike,
I play with it because it exists. Why climb a mountain? It also 
breaks the period at Hopewell Furnace, NHP, when I pass around bars 
of 1850 wrought iron and some 1996 titanium. It falls into my talk on 
strategic materials. I also have tried to make matching pairs of 
letter openers from steel and titanium. The reaction when you hand a 
person the second one is worth the work.

Hochewa

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From: [email-masked] (MR WILLIAM A HOCHELLA)
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:16:58, -0500

To All,
Nobody in the world really hot forges tungsten. The largest single 
application for unalloyed or very low alloy tungsten is obviously 
lamp filaments, followed by TIG electrodes and armor penetrators. 
(Here we go again.) Weight wise, tungsten carbide is probably the 
largest consumer.
It melts at over 6000*F. The oxide becomes volatile at 2000*F. If you 
forge it at 3000*F,  you would be just leaving the warm working range.
 There is not one ounce of commercial tungsten that has ever seen 
liquid on purpose. It is all done with powder. Usually no more than 
an inch square in the pressed form.
It is different stuff.

Hochewa

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From: [email-masked] (Dan Hughes)
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 11:52:58 -0400

>looking back over my notes it was if you get it too hot it will crumble
>or drop or impact it cold it would break, acording to Yuri. I think
>what he was using was titanium though cause he said it was a pure
>element.and tungston is not an element. Does anyone else remember?
>
>Thanks
Sorry but tungsten is an element with a Z number of 74 and an atomic weight
from 180-184 as found in the nature.

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From: Bill Hornaday <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 -0700

>>it crumbles upon an impact. 
.Somebody else mentioned this but someone(s) has changed Tungsten steel to
Titanium, which is a reactive metal and has nothing to do with depleted
urabium used in rocket shells.  Titanium can be forged. 

Bill Hornaday