Subject: Re: railroad spikes

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 06:26:26 -0400

Regarding the hardening of rr spikes I have found the results of the
hardening to be somewhat disappointing.  In actual use the edge deteriorates
very rapidly.  I have tried them as small finishing hatchets for green wood
working,  for small adzes and  quite a few knives.  In all cases a few
whacks, hacks and slices seemed to quickly take the edge off.

Perhaps I have not been hardening and tempering correctly and will try again
today. I have been only hardening and not tempering.  Perhaps I am also
expecting too much from them.  I think the manganese and chromium in the
spikes imparts some excellent qualities that contribute to workability and
corrosion prevention.  But...re edged items, I still feel they are best for
decoration and show.  

Based on the feedback, however, I will try hardening and tempering again.
 But, if as George Ezell indicated, they are but 1045 I dont think we can
expect a decent, lasting edge.  If you folks are getting good edges that
really work I am anxious to make that happen and welcome any thoughts.  I
greatly enjoy working with the things.

Regards,  Don Plummer

---

From: George Ezell <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 13:17:38 -0500

[email-masked] wrote:
> today. I have been only hardening and not tempering.  
> Regards,  Don Plummer

That could very well be the problem, hardening them and not tempering
them too.  Too hard of an edge is, in my opinion, worse than too soft.
Get a magnifying glass out and check the dulled edge for chips...my bet
is that the edge is chipping out very quickly because it's too hard.
If the edge is rolling over, or bending under stress, it's too soft.
I'm going to quench one this weekend and see just how well a fully
hardened spike breaks.  It's a good test of a steel's sutiblity for
edged tools.
I've said this before, but it's good information...To test the integrity
of one's heat-treatment (as it applies to blades), well, I'll quote
it from Wayne Goddard:
> <<  Draw the blade across the rod with firm downward pressure.  
>  The blade edge should flex as it passes over the rod.  If the steel is 
>  too soft it will deform, if it is too hard it will chip.  If you get the 
>  light just right you can see the flex as the edge passes over the rod. >>
> 
> Ray,  that's almost correct.  There is no real need to draw the blade across
> the rod unless it is some type of damascus and you feel the need to see if
> anything is going to fall off.
> 
> An angle of 15-20 degrees is adequate with a downward pressure of around 35
> pounds.   The test was shown to me in 1959 or so by an old blacksmith who
> tested the knives he forged that way.  It really has worked out to be a good
> way to judge the correct working hardness of a blade.
End quote.  Best way I know to determine tempering tempatures for an
"unknown" steel.  
Hope that's helped some, now I'm off to Tannehill...
	George Ezell

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 19:09:34 -0400 (EDT)

> hardened spike breaks.  It's a good test of a steel's sutiblity for

How uniform are these critters?  Would they make a good 'lab rat'?  Cost &
availability is an issue as well.  I kinda doubt the vendors are
accustomed to someone wanting ~10 units.