Subject: Re: Tool Steel

From: TOMBGUARD <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 17:34:08 CST

Could someone please explain to this poor young soul the difference
between annealing and normalizing.  I understand the difference in the
process, but I do not understand when one should be done as opposed to
the other.  I would also like to know the pro's and con's of each of
the processes.

Thanks so much.

Just a quick note.  I want to thank all of you so far, I am just
getting into this and your help so far has been fantastic.  I do have
a blacksmith, that I see at least once a week, who is teaching me, but
this list is really keeping me thinking.  Thanks again.  And yes,
whoever mentioned it in a reply to one of my posts, it is very
addicting.

Robert

  Robert H. Neidlinger                      [email-masked]
  "The Tomb Guard"                          [email-masked] 
  "Ask me a question and I'll reply, Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie"
                                                Winnie the Pooh

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 20:15:48 -0700

Bob,
 Normalizing is a quick method of softening a forging to the point where 
you could harden and temper it for use.  However, it is useful  only for 
tools where you have not changed the cross section much, more like file 
and grind to shape, rather than forge.  Heating to critical temperature 
and "Normalizing" or laying the piece somewhere in still air, like right 
next to the fire, on the side under the chimney, or under the forge in 
your scrap pile, later, you can harden and temper to suit.
   Annealing is heating to the same temperature, but then burying it 
immediately in an inert insulation medium, and that can be lots of 
things...sand, vermiculite (granular insulation), ashes, forge waste (ash 
and spent coke, clinker, dirt etc out the bottom of your forge) lime, 
wood ashes (my favorite) so the piece cools very slowly.  This is 
important if you have drastically changed the cross section of a chunk of 
tool steel.  There have been incredible stresses set up in the steel from 
the heat and bashing, and normalizing will not remove enough of them 
safely enough to provide a safe tool.  Grinding a spring to a chisel 
shape, you will probably get away with normalizing, if you forge it to 
shape, anneal.  If in doubt, anneal!  Final filing and polishing before 
hardening and tempering is easiest when annealed, you can even straighten 
a slight crook, but try to keep from doing that, as you'll introduce 
stress again :-(
   Harden in Oil if you are unsure of the material, oil is softest, if it 
handles that ok, try hot water, then cold water, then salt water, and for 
a really good one, a knife maker friend of mine uses alcohol and dry ice! 
 So far, he's only burned himself four times!
  Normalizing is also useful in mild steel if you have hammered a fine 
point on something and need to bend or drill it later.  The metal right 
behind where the taper starts seems to condense, then when you try to 
bend it cold, it won't!  Also, that same area will really screech a drill 
bit, normalizing is the answer here.  Just heat to a light cherry, and 
lay it aside.  Cold rolled if it is to be worked cold, also will need to 
be normalized.  We used to twist 3/16 square into a tight twist over 10 
feet with a half inch drill and a vise, but the cold rolled had to be 
normalized first or it would refuse to twist very much, then snap!
  There are lots of reasons to do either, experiment, but carefully, 
tools are nothing to experiment with, especially if you are not sure of 
the composition.  I usually use coil springs for my small tools, over the 
years I have learned how far and in which direction I can go, have never 
had one chip (except that one time...not the tool's fault.)
  Another Bob :-)

---

From: Jim McCarty <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:20:28 -0500

> the other.  I would also like to know the pro's and con's of each of

I was taught to mormalize when making chisels and punches at the John 
C. Campbell Folk School class I took. We would do this before 
quenching and tempering. All we did was to get the tool red all the 
way through and stuff it under the coal before we went to lunch. When 
we came back it had cooled real slow and was ready to be heat treated. 
Think of normalizing as a back massage after a hard day at work. 
Annealing, on the other hand, is like taking a long vacation for 
stress relief. Anyway, the normalizing did the trick for the punch and 
chisel I made there as both have been in constant use for three years 
and are still holding up well. By the way, these were made from coil 
spring, quenched in oil and tempered using the residual heat method.

-- 
Jim McCarty
Father Helias Forge
Taos, MO
Editor Rural Missouri Magazine
Newsletter editor, Blacksmiths Association of Missouri

³Foolish consistencies are the hobgoblins of little minds³

---

From: Jim McCarty <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:24:29 -0500

Perhaps someone could comment on "packing" the edges of tools to 
realign the grain structure. I have read about this technique in the 
Art of Blacksmithing but the book doesn't explain how to do it or why 
you should.
-- 
Jim McCarty
Father Helias Forge
Taos, MO
Editor Rural Missouri Magazine
Newsletter editor, Blacksmiths Association of Missouri