Subject: pricing

From: [email-masked] (Roger Olsen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:57:14 -0800

I don't mean to open a whole can of worms that will result in a lot of
mail many won't be interested in, however a brief discussion on pricing may
be something that a large number of us may be interested in.
     keeping it simple, and speaking in terms of full time blacksmithing &
metalworking, those of us who own our own shops, not as a hobby but as our
vocation and hopefully also our avocation;
     what do you charge for shop time?
     most railing jobs are bid by the foot, defining their design as simple,
moderate, or complicated, I understand that no two jobs are alike, that
fastening can be quick and simple, involving little more than a cap to hide
plug welds, or very time consuming with mortise & tenons, or a variety of
other involved methods. how much per foot?
     I guess I need to say my two cents on mixing modern equipment in a
blacksmith shop, like most I started with little more than a coal forge,
anvil, post vise, hammer, and tongs. over the years I have added many more
traditional tools, but also: oxy/ace, stick welder, wire feed, drill press,
plasma cutter, power hammers, sand blaster, band saw, bench grinder, right
angle grinders with wire wheels. grinding wheels, and sanding discs, I will
continue to add, with hopefully a tumbler before long. it would be wrong
and a misrepresentation to sell my wares as traditional blacksmithing, and
I do not do that, I think of myself as a metal worker with an emphasis on
blacksmithing, I do not accept any jobs that do not involve forging in
their process but I do not limit myself either. Occasionally a client will
come by with an educated eye who wants a piece done only by traditional
methods, and of course I welcome those jobs.
I must say if I limited myself to only those methods I would price myself
out of many jobs and for a customer who wouldn't know the difference
anyway. I believe the bottom line is to do what you want but be honest
about what it is. I won't even ask you all to define "hand-forged" but that
is another catch phrase whose definition is often stretched.

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From: Ralph Snel <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 19:08:10 MET

I'm not a professional, and don't have to make a living on it. Besides that
I live in Sweden with probably different prices. I put my prices after what
I _think_ an experienced blacksmith would put down in time, and charge the
equivalence of about 5-15 US$ per hour. The range depends very much on what
one gets for the money. Fast and easy stuff are 15, the slow work is 5, just
so that I don't charge humongous amounts for a simple thing that took me
a lot of time to complete.

For knives I have a totally different rating, mainly depending on what the
customer can afford: I usually do custom stuff. Typical for a simple dagger
is about $100, but I often put in a lot more than 20 hours. That's about
$200 per foot :)

Ralph Snel
[email-masked]
Sweden

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From: Robert Silverman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:25:29 -0500 (EST)

I have been wondering why The Anvil's Ring never includes prices with the 
pieces it illustrates.  What is the editorial policy on this?  

I imagine that it would change the feel of the magazine, but at the same 
time, pricing artistic work would be helpful to both beginning smiths as 
well as raising the general public's awareness of the value of forged work.

Of course, I've also noticed a wide range in prices, say for example 
between stores in Toronto and stores in Montreal. 

How do smiths determine the price of their dragons or of elaborate tables 
or chairs?  

I know you can determine prices by calculating hours and material and 
administration costs, but how do you put monetary value on the artistry, 
the creative design, the originality of the product?

Tara.

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From: "Szucs" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 09:49:10 -0500

> is about $100, but I often put in a lot more than 20 hours. That's about

	I've never charged anything for any of my knife work.  It's always
	been for friends and family and the thought of charging for it
	somehow takes all the pleasure out of it for me.

	Call me business challenged.

	-Andy V.

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From: "Thomas E. McLemore" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:56:15 -0600

I am trying to find a souce for coal in the south Texas area. It seems
there are no local sources within 100 miles of me. Can any one help me?
--
Tom Mclemore
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:30:30 EST

>there are no local sources within 100 miles of me. Can any one help 
Tom, call Buddy Leonard, 504-892-1137..
he is the current president of the Louisiana Metalsmiths' Assn.
around Nov. we bought a 20 ton truck load from around the
Birmingham area i think. it was $4k or $5k, he will be happy to
tell you all of the details. please be sure to tell him that you got
his name & # from me on the InterNet,, he will be thrilled.  :-)

Dave Mudge ~ [email-masked]
Magic Hammer Forge    504-735-0049
Magic Hammer Gallery  504-893-2988
Louisiana Metalsmiths' Association

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From: Fulwood <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:36:10 -0800

Thomas E. McLemore wrote:
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------

Try one of these Tom,

Nick Brumder                                                             
Liberty Forge                                                            
40128 Industrial Park Circle                                             
Georgetown, TX 78626

Phoenix Coal Sales, Inc.
310 S Scraper St
P.O. Box 498
Vinita, OK 74301
918-256-7873
918-256-7874
Will sell coal by 50 Ib bag or in bulk. Call for latest price.
However, by bag is roughly four times the bulk price.

-- 
Donnie Fulwood Mailto:[email-masked] 
Editor Ocmulgee Blacksmith Guild Chapter of ABANA Newsletter

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From: Ralph Snel <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:12:30 MET

What does one have to look for in good coal? Sofar I've used (unspecified)
cokes that was used for heating, and a bag of coal I got from a friend.
My supply is running low, and could use some hints for when I buy my next
batch.

Ralph
[email-masked]

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From: "Mark E. Williams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:59:06 -0500

On Jan 15, 12:12pm, Ralph Snel wrote:
> Subject: Re: Coal

For blacksmithing, you want soft or bituminous coal. This is sometimes called
metallurgical coal. It has high BTUs or Joules, low sulfur and low ash content.
Upon burning, with a little water, it should coke easily and not make much
clinker. Some of these are value judgements.

Depending on your location, you may not be able to get good coal for a
reasonable price. So improvise. Commercial coke works well, but it is sometimes
hard to light and, once lit, hard to maintain. You need to supply lotsa air.
Anthracite or hard coal can make a good fuel, however it is harder to light
than soft coal, will not coke, and is usually a dirtier fuel(more ash and
clinker). Charcoal works very well, is easy to light and has little clinker,
however one needs more charcoal(by volume) than coal to do the same work.

Hope this helps.

Mark

-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams
Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744
[email-masked]

Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, lest ye deceive yourselves.
James 1:22