Subject: Anvil project: INBA or other?

From: "Andy V." <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:26:38 -0400

Folks,

I recently got hold of the back issue of Anvil's Ring which has the 
article on the INBA anvil.

As far as I can see it looks like a good, traditional design, which
raises some qiestions for me, and I'd like to solicit opinions from
the list and anyone else that might care to chime in.

First of all, it is a single bick design.  In earlier posts, it had
been mentioned by a few folks that a two horn design may be preferable.
I would like to hear opinions on this.   What are the pros and cons
for having a double as opposed to a single bick design?

Next regards the horn:  Peddinghaus anvils, for example, do not have
a traditionally profiled horn, but rather a conical one.  This is
very similar to a certain type of silver smith's stake and woudl
appear to me to be more versatile than the traditional horn.  Is there
any compelling reason for using the traditional profile over a conical
one?  Is strength a factor?

What about Pritchel holes for the double bick design?  I wouldn't
want to bore holes anywhere that would compromise the strength of
the anvil.  I don't see where I could put the hole except at the
base of the square bick.  Would the hole be too deep there?  Would
that depth in any way impede the use of the hole?

Again I raise the question of working area.  How big?  I can go with
the more traditional dimensions or I  could possibly flatten the 
design, lengthening and widening the usable striking surface.  Would
such a departure from the normal expectations cause people to balk
from either a functional standpoint or one of pure psychology?  Is
there any significant advantage to having a larger area for most
chores or is it only desireable for larger work?

And finally, the issue of size come to the fore.  The INBA anvils
weigh in at about 200#.  Is this large enough or would 250 or 300
pounds be "better"?

Ideally I'd like to be able to offer at least two sizes, perhaps a
200# and a 350 or 400 pounder, but to begin I want to offer only one
to see what kind of interest there is.  This is going to be one of
those labors of love and while I don't expect to make much of anything
on this project (which is not a goal here), I'd like to walk away
with something to show for the effort, and I'dcertainly like to avoid
taking a bath on it, so providing the most popular size becomes very
important in that light.

I would very much like to get a consensus on which direction this
design should go taking into account salability and function, I
suppose in that order, though it grieves me to put the one over the
other like that.  Since I'm not yet into mid-6 figure income bracket,
I sadly cannot afford to dump $15K to $20K into something that will
sink to the bottom :(.  I'm not quite that brave, yet.

My personal preference is for the double bick, but since I'm speaking
more from the standpoint of a silversmith than a blacksmith, this may 
prove a clue-challenged preference.

Your help is very much wanted and appreciated.  I'm dead serious about
proceeding with this project and I'd like to provide folks with an
excellent anvil at a very reasonable price without flirting too closely
with Chapter 11 (or, God forbid, Chapter 7) bankruptcy.

I'd also like to see some indication from the folks here what the 
interest in such an anvil would be, assuming a $2.25 - $2.50 /#
cost.

Thanks for time and help.

	-Andy V.

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From: "[email-masked] 415.855.5707" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:09:15 -0800 (PST)

I would be interested - but the cost of shipping seems to be as much a factor
in getting an anvil as  anything.  I talked to Ron in Ypisilanti (sp?) and then
called yellow freight - they wanted almost $200 to ship a 200 pound anvil. 
Ick.

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From: "Andy V." <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:52:27 -0400

> called yellow freight - they wanted almost $200 to ship a 200 pound anvil.

	A muy valid point.  I don't see much of a way around
	this.  Anyone have any ideas?

	-Andy V.

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From: Steve Smith <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 96 16:17:24 MDT

> > called yellow freight - they wanted almost $200 to ship a 200 pound anvil.

Freight companies charge very different rates depending on what kind
of contract you negotiate with them. Its not clear what kind of
negotiating position you have, Andy, but probably worth asking. "I've
got 50 anvils..." Freight rates drop as more poundage goes to a
specific location-maybe something could be worked out this way.

--
Steve Smith
[email-masked]

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From: "Andy V." <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 21:35:21 -0400

> specific location-maybe something could be worked out this way.

	Hmmm... shows what I know about shipping.  Shows what I
	still need to learn about it as well.

	What about if you have a lot  of poundage going to different
	locations?

	-Andy V.

---

From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 07:42:27 -0400

On May 21,  2:26pm, Andy V. wrote:
> Subject: Anvil project: INBA or other?
> Folks,
>

Two horns would take some getting used to, but would offer more versatility
than a single horn provided the horns were different in cross-section. The down
side with two horns is the loss of a sharp-edged square heel.

> one?  Is strength a factor?

I don't know of a compelling reason not to have a conical horn. A possible
exception would be to make horseshoes. Since the horn is not tempered and is an
integral part of the body of the anvil, a small change in the shape should not
affect the overall stregth of the anvil.

> that depth in any way impede the use of the hole?

Currently, my shop anvil doesn't have a pritchel hole. One could always make a
bolster plate for use over the hardie hole. So, why have a pritchel hole?

> chores or is it only desireable for larger work?

Personally, I would like a larger working area. If this means modifying the
dimensions, fine. I like a larger working area no matter what the size of the
work.

> weigh in at about 200#.  Is this large enough or would 250 or 300

A 200 lb anvil would be a good comprimise between size and cost. At the cost
per pound listed below, the price would be $450 to $500 for the anvil (w/o
shipping).

> interest in such an anvil would be, assuming a $2.25 - $2.50 /#

I'm interested in purchasing such an anvil.

Mark

-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams
Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744
[email-masked]

I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member.
Grouch Marx

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From: Dan Nibbelink <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 23:39:48 -0700

Andy V. wrote:
> snip

> Thanks for time and help.

I am quite sure that I read that Jere Kirpatrick purchased the rights and 
the molds for the INBA anvil and will be manufacturing them. Contact:

Vally Forge & Welding, 30-C E. San Francisco St., Willits, CA 95490 
phone 707.459.2523

If you can sell an anvil for $2.50 per pound you would sell many. 
Centaur's prices are in the neighborhood of $5/lb. Used anvils in good 
condition are about $2/lb in Colorado.

As for style, I go for the double bick with upsetting block and "tab?" as 
shown in my 94/95 Centaur catalog: Refflinghaus 1858-220.

-- 
Dan Nibbelink
RedHawk Forge
Berthoud, Colorado
[email-masked]

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From: Tom Vincent <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:34:37 -0500 (CDT)

Would bulk shipments of anvils help? Perhaps whenever possible we could 
order through a local chapter and get 5 or 10 anvils delivered all at 
once to reduce costs. Tom

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From: Page Thomas <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:52:54 -0500 (CDT)

One can estimate the weight of a standard anvil by its dimensions.

10lb anvil.

face is 6 x 2; horn, 3 1/2"; hgt., 4"; base, 3 1/2"

100lb.
face, 14 x 3 3/8; horn, 9 3/4"; waist, 5"; heal, 13/16; drop, 13/16, hh, 7/8

125lb
face, 15 1/2x3 1/2; horn 10 1/2; waist, 5 1/4; heal, 7/8; dp, 7/8; hh, 15/16

160lb
face, 17 1/2x4; horn, 11 1/2; waist, 5 1/2; heal, 15/16; drop, 15/16; hh, 1"

200lb
face 19x4 1/4; horn, 12; waist, 6; heal, 1, drop, 1; hh, 1 1/16

225lb

face, 19 1/2x4 1/2; horn, 12 1/2; waist, 6 1/2; heal, drop, 1 1/16, hh, 1 1/16

900lb

face 28 x 8 horn, 19"; height, 18; base 19x16; hh 2"

A farrier's anvil with usually have a longer horn and shorter face, but 
other dimensions are close.

One should be able to estimate the weight of their anvil, + - 25 lbs.

Page

[email-masked]

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From: Chris Kilpatrick <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:13:18 -0700

> Thanks for time and help.
I have a dumb question: Could a cleat used for mooring on docks be used
as the body of an anvil, welding a face onto a flattened top?  The part I 
am talking about is the thing that looks like a two horned anvil and sits 
 on the pier and they tie ships to it.