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From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <london@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: ncabana@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: North Carolina ABANA homepage now on the Web.
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NC ABANA Homepage on SunSITE
----------------------------

Maintained by:
Jimmy Alexander (jalex@sunSITE.unc.edu)
Lawrence London (london@sunSITE.unc.edu)

[email to blacksmith@sunsite.unc.edu & ncabana@sunsite.unc.edu
will reach both these parties; email to ncabana@sunsite will appear
automatically in a "feedback" mail-archive in the homepage, useful
for posting news, information and events schedules]

=============================================================================
North Carolina Chapter, Artist Blacksmith Association of North America
<> WWW URL: http://sunSITE.unc.edu/nc-abana
<> ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/art/blacksmithing [also /incoming] 
<> [or: ftp sunsite.unc.edu, cd pub/academic/art/blacksmithing/incoming]
<> gopher://sunsite.unc.edu/11/.pub/academic/art/blacksmithing
Email for the NC ABANA Webmaster may be sent to:
jalex@sunSITE.unc.edu, london@sunSITE.unc.edu and blacksmith@sunSITE.unc.edu,
and for posting information to the homepage and/or ftp/gopher archives: 
ncabana@sunsite.unc.edu & blacksmith@sunsite.unc.edu

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              http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/edu/arts/blacksmithing/ABANA/

               The Artist-Blacksmith Association of North America
                             ABANA OnLine ListServer:
                                   "TheForge"


------------<{~}>------------<{~}>------------<{~}>------------<{~}>--------
---

                Welcome!  You are now a subscriber to TheForge Mail List.

To send a message so that  all the other subscribers of TheForge Mail List
receive it, send it to:

                theforge@wugate.wustl.edu

In the Subject area of your E-Mail form put a concise description of your
topic or question.  This helps others to get an idea what the message is
about.

That is all you need to get going.  If you know a tip....offer it.  If you
need an answer to a blacksmithing/metalsmithing question.....just ask.

If you have a question, contact ABANA SysOp at:

                             GDixon@mailbox.ioa.com


------------<{~}>------------<{~}>------------<{~}>------------<{~}>-----------

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get to the FAQ area of ABANA's Internet Site use this address:

http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/edu/arts/blacksmithing/ABANA/online/online.html


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What is ABANA?

ABANA is a non-profit art and education organization.   Art metalwork,
contemporary and traditional, is our focus.  Galleries of artistic
metalwork, educational offerings, excerpts from our publications and
metalworking resources are found at our Internet Site.  Our members, who
include  men and women Metalsmiths from the United States, Canada, Europe,
Australia, New Zealand and Japan share a common interest in the
preservation and growth of the blacksmiths craft.
        From our international conferences to our chapter "hammer-ins"
ABANA is a vibrant and growing source of education and inspiration for
Metalsmiths of all ages.  Whether you seek a chance to take a class, offer
expertise, find a blacksmith event , learn online or join us in this craft
you will find a wide range of regularly updated information and graphics
at:

           http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/edu/arts/blacksmithing/ABANA/

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From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan  3 15:52:21 1996
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From: "John W. Pollins III" <74040.1506@compuserve.com>
To: THEFORGE <THEFORGE@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: MIG
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	I've convinced myself I "need" a small (110v) MIG for thin sheet and FU
repairs supplimenting my stick and gas.
	Given the price of the flux wire spools (not a MIG really - more like a
JIG ---expensive Junk In Metal), I deduce that I've got to go with the bottle
from the start.
	The Sears package at $350 looks pretty good. Is it?
	How about the Harbor Freight offering?
	For that matter, does anyone have one for sale?
		Pollins

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan  3 16:23:53 1996
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From: Steve Smith <steve@cc.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Mr Biddle 
In-Reply-To: <Chameleon.960102174613.frnklyn@>; from "frnklyn@mcs.com" at Jan 2, 96 5:02 pm
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There is a possibility here to repair some of the damage which Mr.
Biddle has received. He would probably be heartened to receive a copy
of the spate of email concerning him. I didn't think of keeping any
copies; could someone out there who did contact ABANA and find out
where to send them?

I feel that the Anvil's Ring letters have been impolite, but not
unexpected. The tone of the replies is fairly typical of magazine
letters columns (and less vituperous than some of our email!). Typical
does not mean acceptable, but people will be people. I think that
responses defending Mr. Biddle would naturally lag, and may be
upcoming. Let's hope that any upcoming responses keep to the polite
'high ground', and don't extend the issue further.

--
Steve Smith
steve@cc.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan  3 17:11:53 1996
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Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:11:46 -0500
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From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <williams@color.wff.nasa.gov>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Mr Biddle and SIG's
In-Reply-To: frnklyn@mcs.com
        "Mr Biddle and SIG's" (Jan  2,  5:02pm)
References: <Chameleon.960102174613.frnklyn@>
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Having received my AR yesterday, I read all the letters concerning Mr. Biddle.
It struck me as odd that no one supported his position. Well, Brad Silberberg
indicated a need for the group that Mr. Biddle represents. Seems to me that the
message we're sending is to not volunteer your opinion unless you know you're
in the majority. Otherwise, you will get jumped on. I suspect that Mr. Biddle
will have a tough time getting himself to volunteer for anything else that's
connected with ABANA. I hope that he reads some of this mail.

It may be true that the purpose of AR has changed over time and that The
Hammer's Blow was started to answer some of the concerns raised by the Mr.
Biddles. However, slamming the messenger will not eliminate the problem.

I have a hard time getting people to volunteer for jobs within my chapter. I am
president of the Furnace Town Blacksmiths Guild. I hope this exchange of
letters does not quench their spirits.

This is my 2 cents' worth.

-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams

Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744

williams@color.wff.nasa.gov

Eat a live toad every morning. Everything else will be better by comparison.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan  3 19:15:21 1996
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From: clay@grove.net (Clay Spencer)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Blacksmithing Conferences
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For information, this is a list of conferences to add to the CBA date that
Chuck Simonian posted last month.
Any others that you know about, additional info,  corrections, etc.--please
post,     Clay.

NWBA Spring Conference
April 12--14, 1996
Paul Thorne and Grant Sarver
St. Helens, WA

Bealer Memorial Forge
Birthplace of ABANA
Westville, GA
April 13, 1996, 10AM
David Fink and Jeff Mohr
Registration ($3.50) and Auction to raise money for restoration of the
forge. Bring or send auction items to David Cornett, PO Box 1173, Pine
Mountain, GA 31822

Forging on the River III
River Bluff Forge Council
April 13--14, 1996
National Ornamental Metal Museum
Memphis, TN

Blacksmith's Guild of the Potomac
Spring Fling
April 19--21, 1996
Mike Boone, Chad Gunter, Glenn Horr, Williamsburg Smiths, Bill Wojcik, Hans Peot
Warrenton, VA

Batson Bladesmithing Symposium
Alabama Forge Council
April 19--21, 1996
Hatfield Lake, Athens, Al
Pre-register($85): Barbara Batson, 176 Brentwood Lane, Madison, AL 35758
205-971-6860 or 912/383-6776

Ozark Conference
Blacksmiths Association of Missouri
May 3--6, 1996
Jay Burnham-Kidwell and Dorothy Stiegler
Potosi, MO

North Carolina Chapter of ABANA
Second Semi-Anual Conference
May 10--12, 1996
Denton Farm Park, Denton, NC

Northern Rockies Blacksmith Association and Northwest Blacksmith Association
Special spring conference
May 17--19, 1996
Stephensville, Montana

Mississippi Forge Council
Annual Conference
May 25--26, 1996
Pelahatchie Shore Park, Jackson, MS
Bob Patrick and Chris Marks

Indiana Blacksmithing Association
June 1--2, 1996

Illinois Valley Blacksmithing Association
June 8--9, 1996
Pontiac, IL

ABANA Conference
June 26--29, 1996
Alfred, NY

Banging on the Bayou III
Louisiana Metalsmith's Association
August 1996

Rocky Mountains Smiths
August, 1996
Carbondale, CO

Alabama Forge Council
September 6--8, 1996
Tannehill State Park
Mc Calla, AL

Florida Artists Blacksmith's Association
October 1996
Barberville, FL


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan  4 17:07:55 1996
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Subject: Leg Vises
  
A kind soul refered me to the PineHurst Trading Center, Pinehurst
Texas. They have several Leg Vises, all prices. I don't have the
number handy, but they are north of Houston, I suspect in 713 area
code.
  
Vance
  
  
 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*  Message From : BURNS, VANCE A.       *
*  Location     : US-HOUSTON(IS3) LAN   *
*  KOMAIL ID    : FVAB94  (IS3     )    *
*  Date and Time: 01/04/96  11:34:29    *
 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan  4 17:16:04 1996
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Subject: Anvils, Brands and Patterns
  
I have been scouring Texas for an anvil, 150 to 250 lbs. No luck so
far except the $1000++ variety. I was about to bite the bullet and
order the Mankel in Centaur's fine catalog, when a discussion with a
local farrier gave me cause to reconsider. He and others are not to
pleased with Mr. Mankel's anvils. He did go on and on about an
anvil, pronounced "cole slaw", I don't know the proper spelling.
Short on time, I didn't find out if this is a brand or a pattern.
  
What is a "cole slaw"?
  
He also mentioned a Louisiana farrier that is trying to resurrect
this type of anvil, which lead me to believe it might be a pattern.
  
Vance
  
  
 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*  Message From : BURNS, VANCE A.       *
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*  Date and Time: 01/04/96  11:42:58    *
 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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Subject: Venturi or Blower
  
The book, How To Build a Gas Forge, illustrates a forced air forge.
What are the pros and cons of either the naturally aspirated or the
forced air gas forges?
  
I would like to build my own, and have aquired 30 or 40 refractory
bricks that should do the job.
  
Thanks
Vance
  
  
 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan  4 18:00:04 1996
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From: Steve Smith <steve@cc.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: forced air or carburated?
In-Reply-To: <199601041707.LAA10127@wugate.wustl.edu>; from "vance@coca-cola.com" at Jan 04, 96 12:06 (noon)
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I've built both types of forges. Both work very nicely when you get
all the wrinkles out.

My blower forge is a piece of water pipe 12" diameter and 18" long. I
have 2" insulation in it, with a fireclay poured floor. It will hold
large items, like car coil springs nicely. Works well, not much
finesse required to make it work. Not very portable due to being HEAVY
and requiring a cord.

I just finished a prototype no-blower forge. It is heavily cribbed
from the Abana/Rob Gunter design, with some changes, such as:

	double doors (left and right) 
	no preheat on incoming air (only dropped the temp by 120
		degrees F or so, MUCH simpler burner assembly).
	1.5" wall insulation instead of 1"
	modified air inlet horns (flared like a trumpet)

I'll sell sheet metal for $150 plus shipping, or show you plans for
cost and give tons of free advice. When I'm sure I have a stable
design, I will be submitting it to the online resource list.

Big Clue: flame holders (as discussed in your book) are needed with a
blower; they won't work worth beans in a no-blower! Just leave the end
of the tube open (the opposite wall/floor acts like a flame holder).

I'll be happy to help you with more details. I like both forges, but
the portability of the naturally aspirated one is a big plus.

--
Steve Smith
steve@cc.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan  4 18:50:35 1996
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From: Andy Quittner <73654.2173@compuserve.com>
To: ABANA <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Cc: ArtMetal <artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu>,
        JANELLE R GILBERT <72603.3540@compuserve.com>
Subject: Biddle letter and the Anvil's Ring
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I am responding to the various letters generalted with regard to the controversy
surrounding Greg Biddle's letter.  It is unfortunate that Biddle took so much
heat in the Anvil's Ring - and elsewhere - but in part whenever you make a
public comment, you set yourself up for various forms of attack.  I agree that
the attacks were unfair -- on should comment on ideas --not the person who
presents them.  However, from the E-mail that I have read, there is obviously
some misconceptions , and a complete lack of understanding, with regard to the
Anvil's Ring editorial policy (as well as some misconceptions regarding other
aspects of the Anvil's Ring).  For example, the Anvil's Ring is NOT a "large"
chapter nesletter.  The only resemblance is that no one (as of yet) is paid for
writing an article.  But, that is not important.

The editorial policy for the Anvil's Ring has been in effect for at least 10
years -- it has not changec, nor would I recommend that it do so.  The policy is
simply this:

  "Letters received on a subject (by the issue deadline) are printed.  All
comments, if any, to the letter that are received PRIOR to the next issue's
deadline will be published, verbatim.  After the next issue (immediately
following the issue in which a letter appears) no other comments are printed."

The purpose is to give some form of open dialog without beating a dead horse;
hence the one issue limit.  The problem that occurred with reference to Biddle's
letter - at least from my personal standpoint - is that a response was printed
(Toby Hickman's response) in the original issue with Biddle's letter.  Toby's
letter should have waited until the next issue.  (Robert Owings, editor, also
responded - but that is his editorial perogative).  The point is that letters
are not solicited or selected - what is received is printed.  

>From a cold look standpoint this is how we operate.  Hence, NO MORE letters on
this subject will be printed, either for or against.  That is the general
policy.  [Maybe after a couple of issues, the subject matter may again be raised
and discussed].

As to the content of the Anvil's RIng, this is a more complex subject - a
subject that has been debated by the Board for a number of years.  Again, there
are some misconceptions floating about.  Yes, the Anvil's Ring does not cater,
as much as some would desire, to the beginning smith.  This has been an ongoing
problem -- some due to philosophy, some due to lack of writers.  On the other
side of the issue, the Anvil's Ring has become somewhat renowned for its
artistic quality and for pushing blacksmithing in general.  This is very much
desired because, financially speaking, it helps ABANA by increasing ABANA's
credibility with the population in general.  Personally, I am an amateur smith,
now probably of intermediate ability.  When I joined ABANA, I was a rank
beginner.  I joined ABANA specifically to get the Anvil's Ring, not for the
beginner's articles (because there weren't many) but specifically for the
pictures (the art) and the ideas and talents from which I could look, read and
strive towards.  As for learning to smith, that I got from my local chapter
(which I helped to found).  It is hands on work that is by far the best teacher
-- as the guilds and apprentice systems have long shown -- you learn best by
doing.

On the other hand, the Board has long recognized that ABANA's function is to
educate.  We knew that the Anvil's Ring was NOT meeting the goal of educating a
large portion of the membership.  This problem was debated and several solutions
were discussed (and evaluated in depth).  The Board wanted to have its cake and
eat it too -- that is we did not want to substantially change the Anvil's Ring
-- but we wanted, very much, to present more for the large number of beginning
smiths.  The result was The Hammer's Blow -- which I believe is meeting this
need even more than we could have done in the Anvil's RIng.  You must remember
that beginning smiths DO NOT WRITE how-to articles.  ABANA MUST DEPEND on the
professionals (and others with more skill) to help the beginners.  To do this,
we must also cater to the needs of the professional, even if (in numbers) they
are a small percentage of the ABANA membership.  This is the only way that ABANA
can survive in a successful manner.  I believe that this is working.  Since the
institution of The Hammer's Blow, membership has increased at a more rapid rate.
As chairman of the pUblication's committee, I have overseen the production of
The Hammer's Blow from the very first issue.  Each year, we have increased the
amount of material being printed in The Hammer's Blow.  This year is NO
exception.  When you receive your next issue, I believe that you will be more
than surprised (and exceedingly happy) with what you get.

I know that there will always be grousers.  But look at what you get for you
ABANA membership --The Anvil's Ring - a premier (albeit somewhat artsy) magazine
read, and respected, throughout the world.  A magazine that exhibits the latest
and best in blacksmithin.  You also get The Hammer's Blow -- dedicated to
bringing technique and process to the beginning and intermediate smiths.  Two
good publications (and others - such as plans) for the SAME DUES that you have
been paying for 10 years!!  Think about that -- with all the inflation,
increased costs, etc. etc.  The ABANA Board has managed to increase membership
benefits, substantially, without ANY increase in membership dues.  I challenge
any of you to find ANY other organization that has done the same.

This response is not intended to squelch any comments or criticisms -- the
intention is only to inform -- so that you better understand what is going on
and why certain things exists as they do.  Comments and criticism are necessary
-- after all, we need to hear from the membership in order to serve it.  Keep it
up.

Happy Hammering,

Andy Quittner, Chairman of Publications Comittee

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan  4 22:39:44 1996
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From: safparks@teleport.com (Raymond Coon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: forced air or carburated?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I must have missed part of this thread.  I've been looking for plans for a
gas forge.  Your pipe model sounds right for forging blades.  Are plans for
this type of gas forge available?  Portability is not a concern.

Thanks,



R. Coon
Portland, OR



>I've built both types of forges. Both work very nicely when you get
>all the wrinkles out.
>
>My blower forge is a piece of water pipe 12" diameter and 18" long. I
>have 2" insulation in it, with a fireclay poured floor. It will hold
>large items, like car coil springs nicely. 

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan  4 22:47:54 1996
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From: Steve Smith <steve@cc.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: forced air or carburated?
In-Reply-To: <199601042235.OAA09510@desiree.teleport.com>; from "Raymond Coon" at Jan 4, 96 2:35 pm
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Raymond,

I don't have any plans handy; I could sketch something for you if
needed. A better option is probably the "Pipe Forge Plans" by Hans
Peot available from ABANA.

I didn't address my earlier post correctly; it was in reply to
vance@cocacola. 

--
Steve Smith
steve@cc.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan  4 23:21:48 1996
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From: GDixon@gate.ioa.com (George Dixon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Gas Forge Plans
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The Anvil's Ring has a listing for a set of gas forge (pipe style) or you
can call the ABANA office at 314-390-2133 and order them.
George Dixon


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan  5 00:53:38 1996
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From: anvil@connectnet.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re:Anvils... 
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At 12:05 PM 1/4/96 EST, you wrote:
>  
>  
>  
>Subject: Anvils, Brands and Patterns
>  
>I have been scouring Texas for an anvil, 150 to 250 lbs. No luck so
>far except the $1000++ variety. I was about to bite the bullet and
>order the Mankel in Centaur's fine catalog, when a discussion with a
>local farrier gave me cause to reconsider. He and others are not to
>pleased with Mr. Mankel's anvils. He did go on and on about an
>anvil, pronounced "cole slaw", I don't know the proper spelling.
>Short on time, I didn't find out if this is a brand or a pattern.
>  
>What is a "cole slaw"?
>  
>He also mentioned a Louisiana farrier that is trying to resurrect
>this type of anvil, which lead me to believe it might be a pattern.
>  
>Vance
>  
Well, Vance, I may be wrong, but it sounds like he's referring to
"Kolswa"...a Swedish anvil manufacturer.  I picked up a small one (70 lbs.)
a few years ago used, and have been very satisfied with it.  The horn's a
bit gouged up (never ley a farrier near your horn!), but the face and hardy
hole have held up very well.  Rings nice, too  <g>.  If you can find one for
something reasonable...go for it.
Later.
George Watts
Chula Vista CA.
anvil@connectnet.com
George Watts
anvil@connectnet.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan  5 01:14:08 1996
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From: Jimmy Alexander <jalex@sunsite.unc.edu>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Blacksmith Information, Metalworking Website (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960103110901.9563P-100000@access4.digex.net>
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[Forwarded by Lawrence London (london@sunSITE.unc.edu)]

------- start of forwarded message -------
From: Leonardo <davinci@access4.digex.net>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Blacksmith Information, Metalworking Website
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:12:05 -0500

On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Manicia Stephens wrote:

> I live in Nashville, TN and was wondering if there were any blacksmiths in 
> town.  I would love to see what goes on in a blacksmith's shop.  I am very 
> interested in getting into it myself.  Please respond to 
> mstephens@trendar.com if anyone is interested in letting me visit.


There is a large group of black smiths in Carroll County Maryland that 
I'm sure will put you in touch with those in your area.  Contact the 
Carroll County Farm Museum at 500 S. Center St, Westminster, Maryland 
21157 and they will put you in touch.  We are adding a metalworking 
section to http://www.hobbies.com and need volunteer board members to 
help us add quaility sites and to review those we have. Lyndi , Editor

------- end of forwarded message -------

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan  5 02:46:30 1996
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From: albind@ccpl.carr.lib.md.us
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re:Anvils... 
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The Carroll County Farm Museum in Westminster MD has a 300+ lb Kolswa 
anvil in the blacksmith shop.  It was donated by a local welding supply 
company which could not find any buyers at its retail price.

This anvil has stood up very well to a constant stream of
volunteer-demonstrators and the inital hammerings of a large 
number of beginners and "wannabees".

Our anvil does not ring hardly at all.  Especially compared to the 
Mouse-hole anvil we have in the corner. We use the Kolswa as an 
example for beginners who are starting their quest for an anvil, to
dispel the idea that an anvil MUST ring to be a good anvil. 

On the other hand, even though it does not ring, it gives the hammer
a great rebound.   

The only complaint we have (and this is a real minor one) is that 
the hardy hole is 1 1/4" (it is probably actually a metric size, but
measures out at 1 1/4" when you put an English ruler against it).  Few
of our Guild members have that size hardy hole at home, so it is hard
to borrow hardy tools that fit. 

Albin Drzewianowski
Editor, Blacksmith Guild of Centrl MD

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From: dhoopes@gvi.net (David Hoopes)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Biddle letter and the Anvil's Ring
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[snip snip] 
>As to the content of the Anvil's RIng, this is a more complex subject - a
>subject that has been debated by the Board for a number of years.  Again, there
>are some misconceptions floating about.  Yes, the Anvil's Ring does not cater,
>as much as some would desire, to the beginning smith.  This has been an ongoing
>problem -- some due to philosophy, some due to lack of writers.  On the other
>side of the issue, the Anvil's Ring has become somewhat renowned for its
>artistic quality and for pushing blacksmithing in general. 

I think that the problem goes far beyond not having beginning articles.  I have
always felt that the Anvils Ring was focused EXCLUSIVLY on ART (nose in the air
when you say that).  And that there is a definate snobby attitude about anyone
who considers themselves to be a blacksmith, but does not consider themselves 
to be an artist.

I for one do not think of AR as "pushitn blacksmithing in general."  I think
it pushs ART, and completely ignores other aspects of the craft.

I guess I really don't want the focus changed.  I would just like to see some
inclusion or acknowlegement of the craft being applied to other then ART.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Hoopes
dhoopes@gvi.net
Lenexa, Kansas (Near Kansas City, Mo)

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan  5 02:56:13 1996
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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 21:51:32 EST
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From: "Charles Orlando" <orlandoc@alfredtech.edu>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Searching for Information on the Acanthus Leaf
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On Thu, 04 Jan 96 01:28:50, 
artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu  <SMTP%> wrote:

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>From: artmetal@interpath.com (enrique)
>To: artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu
>Subject: Searching for Information on the Acanthus Leaf
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>
>What a way to end 1994.  I have spent the last week searching for
>information on how to forge that great traditional leaf of leaves.  The
>almighty Acanthus leaf.  You would think that as many times as this leaf
>has been used in ornamental ironwork, that there would be a tremendous
>amount of information on how to make one.  Well my search has ended with
>very little information.
>
>I searched the Internet to see if maybe there was some useful information
>on the acanthus leaf.  I did find some pictures of the actual plant.  They
>were helpful in determining what the actual leaf looks like, but not very
>useful in learning how to forge one:-(  However, I did notice from viewing
>the pictures, how past metalworkers would have interpreted the forms that
>are typically found in the traditional acanthus leaf.
>
>My next step was to ask some of my metalworking colleagues if they were
>familiar with any periodicals which had information on the making of this
>wonderful leaf.  Rand Esser was kind enough to lend me his "10th
>Anniversary Issue of The Anvil's Ring" which reprinted the "Pattern book
>for Artsmiths." The original book had been stored in the Samual Yellin
>Library for many years.  On the second page of the book, I found Max
>Metzer's, "Modellbuch Fur Kunstschlosser, Einfaches Akanthusblatt."  There
>were great illustrations of the acanthus leaf and the actual pattern for
>the leaf, but no "how-to" instructions:-(
>
>I needed more information and had been talking with Nol Putnam about my
>predicament.  He referenced Ernst Schwarzkopf's "Plain and Ornamental
>Forging" and sent me a fax with some illustrations of the tools used in
>making the acanthus leaf. Thanks Nol!
>
>With this information under my belt, I decided that the repouse and raising
>tools which I have in the shop are just not going to cut it.  Therefore, I
>rolled up my sleeves, put the current commission on hold, stoked up the
>coal forge, and proceeded to make various bottom stakes and a hammer which
>would fit into those tight places on the leaf.  What a way to end the year!
>
>But you know, it's really not a bad way to end the year.  I spent the last
>two days making a parrots bill stake, a ball peen stake, two differently
>sized half round bottom swages for sinking,  Two veining stakes, and a
>ball/straight peen repouse hammer.   I also realized that sometimes we have
>to take the time to set up the tooling for new processes.
>
>This task also made me aware that I sometimes will try to MAKE DUE with the
>tools I already have and that when situations arise in which the tooling is
>vital to the successful execution of a form, I should stop and re group.
>It is important to take the time to evaluate these traditional forms, for
>they have evolved throughout the ages and have been refined by great
>craftsmen.
>
>Even though I have used the processes of sinking, raising, and repouse on
>my contemporary metalwork, I have never had the opportunity to reproduce
>the historic acanthus leaf.  I look forward to this exercise in traditional
>leaf work and hope that it will help develop my craft skills.
>
>If any of you have any additional references or would even like to send me
>a fax or email on the "how-to's" of making an acanthus leaf, I would
>greatly appreciate it.  If not, that's OK.  I am planning on documenting
>the process which I am using based on the available information and hope to
>add it to the "ArtMetal Resources to Metalworking" so that the next time
>someone searches the Web for Acanthus, they will find some useful
>information on how to make one out of metal:-)
>
>Oh, by the way, the acanthus leaves I am making are made of half-hard
>yellow brass sheet.  The processes will be annealing and cold working.
>
>
>505 Luther Rd.
>Apex, NC USA 27502
>
>e-mail:  artmetal@interpath.com
>Phone & Fax: 919-362-0543
>
>If you come to the 1996 ABANA conference, I am pretty sure that Steve 
Joslyn is going to be demonstrating one way he makes the acanthus leaf.
He has changed his email address, so I do not have it.  I think that he
is on this listserve and he can respond as well.
Charley Orlando
 

>
>sincerely ...
>
>enrique
>
>artmetal@interpath.com
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Art Portfolio:
>
>http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/edu/arts/metal/Gallery/vega_e.html
>

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan  5 03:32:12 1996
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To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
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I agree with George Dixon.  Get  a larger unit so you don't have to 
upgrade.  In case you don't want to take that advice or anyone else 
out there, I have a Miller 90 wire feed machine with a co2 bottle and 
regulator for sale.  It is eight years old and is in good condition.  
It does not produce enough heat for a lot of applications and the work 
must be clean for any kind of good bond with heavier metal.
Charley Orlando

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan  5 03:57:18 1996
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Ray Coon-
ABANA has the plans available for the Hans Peot "pipe forge".
I've built 3 from the plans so it must be simple. They have different
refractory but all work great. Look in the Anvils Ring for order form. 
Happy Hammering-
Bill Roberts
Custom Design Metal Arts
3740 N.E. 40th Pl. #C
Ocala,FL 34479
Roberts B1@aol.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan  5 05:11:16 1996
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From: GDixon@gate.ioa.com (George Dixon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Searching for Information on the Acanthus Leaf
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Mr. Orlando forwarded an e-mail from Enrique Vega.....

>My next step was to ask some of my metalworking colleagues if they were
>familiar with any periodicals which had information on the making of this
>wonderful leaf.  Rand Esser was kind enough to lend me his "10th
>Anniversary Issue of The Anvil's Ring" which reprinted the "Pattern book
>for Artsmiths." The original book had been stored in the Samual Yellin
>Library for many years.  On the second page of the book, I found Max
>Metzer's, "Modellbuch Fur Kunstschlosser, Einfaches Akanthusblatt."  There
>were great illustrations of the acanthus leaf and the actual pattern for
>the leaf, but no "how-to" instructions
-------------------------------------------------
In response.....

Max Metzger  Die Kunstschlosserei  also has some excellant tools and
examples.  The radius aspect of tooling is covered well.  I had asked Norm
Larson (Norm Larson Books -see an Anvil's Ring for a phone #) to contact
Coleman, the German publisher and see about a reprint.  He recently faxed
back that Coleman has decided to do a reprint later this year.  We can keep
these old treasures around by hunting down publishers, encouraging reprints
and buying them when they come out!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since you have a source of leaf-blank shapes in the 10th Anniversay Anvil's
Ring I would suggest the following:

Trace or photocopy the page two pattern.  I would add a slight radius to
the end as opposed to the 'v' crotch shown, it is less likely that your
bronze will develope a crack there.

Glue onto and cut out the patterned bronze.

I usually run a very fine fuller (like a dull chisel) along the center
line, using a treadle hammer to drive it with gentle taps.  Sink that
center line just enough to be able to 'feel' it with the tool.

Once the center line is marked, with lead as a backer, I use ball tools
that are eliptical across the face instead of round (less dimples) and
progressively dome the entire leaf blank. So far all of this has been from
the paper pattern side.  This is treadle hammer stuff so far.  It can also
be done free-hand into lead.

Once the volume has been imparted I anneal the blank and then put a veining
stake up.  I flip the leaf, dome aspect up, vein depression down and seat
the vein on the veining stake. You will feel the vein 'snap' onto the
stake.  Use a leaf hammer with a face like a small cross-peen, somewhat
flat with radius on all sides (long sides and the end).

Hold down HARD and begin to hammer the leaf ALONG side but not on the stake
ridge.  Work both sides of the vein alternately, if you get too far
developed on one side it's a bear to get the other side caught up.  The
further you hammer from the stake the broader the vein, the closer to the
stake-the more defined.  With lots of light, repetative blows you can
maintain control, and planish quite a ridge where you want it. { Even with
flat stock, which is another approach, you can raise and control a vein by
holding the blank hard onto the stake (the top of which should be like a
dull chisel) and hammering on either side.  Though you hammer down, it will
appear as if something is pushing the vein up  from beneath.  A lead block
in the vise will back your dome-faced hammer as you give volume with the
blank top down on the lead.} The shorter the edge on your stake the more
easily you can impart curved veins.
Anyway...

On the side veins, the shorter ones that lead towards center from the leaf
segments, use a broader veining stake and also work along the side.  Or you
can flip the leaf , top onto the lead, and use narrow fullers to impart
these veins.
If your leaf is broad, this can be later in the process.  If you are going
for a narrow, tight cross-section, deal with these side veins earlier.

Once you fully develope the center vein, the leaf will fold gently towards
the middle.  Experimentation will let you get the feel for sequence that
accomodates your version.  The gross, long axis curve will develope more
readily if you use the leverage of the stake as you work along side the
main vein.  You can also lay the nearly complete leaf on its back on lead
and fuller the vein with multiple passes.  The backbend at the tip end can
be done over a lead block, say 4"x4"x6" clamped in a vice with a trench
cold hammered into it clear to the edge (Gee, sketchability on the 'ol
e-mail would be nice...).  Work the tip end down into the 'trench as you
extend it progressively out into space.  It will scroll like flat stock on
an anvil but the trench coupled with the resistence of the lead maintains
the cross-section you want.

The key, besides practice, is to work progressively and avoid hard blows.
develope the effects and you can shift or stop before the piece is damaged.
Hard, agressive hammer work will only lead to frustration at first.

Solid versions of this lead-tool are shown in the education section of the
ABANA net site.
Hope this helps.

George Dixon


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Subject: Re: Too much art - not enough craft?
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David Hoopes brings up the subject once again, re: the topic of the Anvil's
Ring having too much art and not enough blacksmithing.  Maybe this time it
was phrased  in such a way that perhaps makes clearer the frustration that
some folks seem to be having with the content of the magazine.  I can't speak
for others but I wonder if what is really meant is the absence of acceptable
traditional ironwork.  Is what what is being sought after?  If so, then
that's partly true, but traditional ironwork is more about style and
perception isn't it?  rather than blacksmithing per se.  Ok now, please bear
with me for a bit....For instance, if an exquisitely executed ceremonial suit
of german or italian armour, with all the furniture for both the rider and
the horse, were featured in detail, would it be seen as art or ironwork?  I
think both, because both apply in this case.  One viewer (an artist, let's
say) may not see the sculptural wonder of such a piece, and another (an
ornamental smith, let's say) may not see enough blacksmithing in it either,
depending on  what expectations each brings into the experience.   However,
in reality, such a work does indeed satisfy both requirements.  Alright now,
here's a point of view to consider.....I just briefly reviewed the last four
issues of the Anvil's Ring and tried to see if there was any validity to the
central question.  I find a fair mix of forms (not perfectly balanced of
course) in terms of functional, sculptural, ornamental, utilitarian, and what
I might consider exploratory studies, which could be variations on any of the
above.  Most of the examples exhibit varying degrees of skill and forging
techniques that are universal to any form involving blacksmithing,
traditional or otherwise.  So is it really a matter of style that we're
talking about?  If that's the case then we are never going to concurr on what
is appropriate work.  Period.  Each and everyone of us brings our own
aesthetic sensibilities into play when we judge the merits of any work and
thank goodness for that.  Now we can get to the point I would like to make,
and that is to see if we can't extend this dialog to a level where we can
make a clear distinction in our own minds,  between fine ironwork and the
success or failure of design.  The best metalwork always works on every
level, of course, but even if a piece doesn't fulfill your particular
requirements, does it also fail as a work of some merit?  I can't tell you
how many folks I have gone around with to see exhibitions or architectural
details on buildings, and how deprived they are when nothing less than a
world class masterpiece will justify their attention.  I'm usually guilt
ridden afterwards because I can come away having found such an abundance of
riches hidden in the details of all kinds of works (not everything, of
course) that may not be successful on the whole. Often enough, a maker has
had spikes of brilliance during his or her process and that's what I look
for.  So if it's possible to develop a mental filter, I should think that as
imperfect as some things must be, there may nevertheless, be a teacher at the
very least, buried in the pages of the Anvil's Ring.  Because I'm
uncomfortable in my chair right now, it brings to mind one more thing to
think about before I sign off.  Question....is it art or a fine example of
functional craft?  I'm talking about something like a Louis IV cushioned
straight-back chair.  Have you ever tried to stay seated in one?  Well you
can't,  (no, it's not my chair, this is a thinly padded office type).  As far
as I can tell, the Louis IV chair is a failure as fine functional furniture.
 No two ways about it.  You can't sit in it, it has a fussy gold leafed
finish, the cusion bulges in the wrong place etc.  Yet it's considered to be
very beautiful, and it is, but is it a non functional art object? or is it
one of the finest examples of furniture art?  Well, it can be both, and
either an artist or a woodcarver can learn something meaningful from such a
piece.  That sounds more like the small point I was trying to make in the
first place.  Hmmm...sorry folks, if I thought about it in the beginning of
this note, you could have been out of here long ago. A final, final note:   I
do hope that others will express their thoughts about the content of the
Anvil's Ring, because I think that we're aware of a latent feeling of
resentment or exclusion among our members and we really need to clear the air
on that issue.  We all have our differences and that has got to be ok with us
and not let it become an insideous infection which is going to erupt, to
nobody's benefit.  You know what I'm talking about.  Just say your piece and
we'll explore together.
Chris Ray

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I have an order for a large {18"] Rose. Iplan to construct out of 16ga. mild
steel sheet.Its been 15 years since Ive seen one made, anyone with some
input?  Thanks.



















                                                                         Dick
Kolpack

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From: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Tool Steel
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Any suggestions for sources of tool/spring steels in odd sizes and small 
quantities?  For example, I need a small amount of 5160 in 5/16 x 1 bar 
stock, but can't locate a vendor which lists such.

David C. Hufford

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan  5 13:24:06 1996
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David,
I believe the auotmotive leaf springs are 5160. HOWEVER, do not go to your
local junk yard and by used ones. They are in the junk yard for a specific
reason. Try your local spring shop and see if they have shorts, mistakes or
blanks. I am sure that they come in various thicknesses, widths and lengths.
They may be a little more expensive but you will know exactly what you are
getting.

Good Luck,

Bill Hochella

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan  5 13:31:58 1996
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From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <williams@color.wff.nasa.gov>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Tool Steel
In-Reply-To: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
        "Tool Steel" (Jan  5,  7:26am)
References: <01HZN5I6R11U000QZ8@ACS.EKU.EDU>
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You might check Burgon Tool Steel Company  1-800-258-7106  Ask for Art Putnam.
They will do small orders.

On Jan 5,  7:26am, David C. Hufford wrote:
> Subject: Tool Steel
> Any suggestions for sources of tool/spring steels in odd sizes and small
> quantities?  For example, I need a small amount of 5160 in 5/16 x 1 bar
> stock, but can't locate a vendor which lists such.
>
> David C. Hufford
>-- End of excerpt from David C. Hufford



-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams

Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744

williams@color.wff.nasa.gov

Eat a live toad every morning. Everything else will be better by comparison.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan  5 14:19:37 1996
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In a message dated 96-01-04 12:59:34 EST, you write:

>
>I'll be happy to help you with more details. I like both forges, but
>the portability of the naturally aspirated one is a big plus.
>
>

I built a neat forced air blower for a farrier using the blower from truck
heater and a propane bottle from a barbeque for the forge. Very portable and
hot enough to weld.

You can get away with incredibly small blowers for forging.

Don
dfogg@cris.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan  5 14:40:27 1996
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    Having mail trouble, just testing. Sorry to trouble everyone.

Kenny Valdejo

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan  6 17:44:42 1996
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From: jbbatson@ro.com (James Batson)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Anvils 
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>Subject: Anvils, Brands and Patterns
>
>I have been scouring Texas for an anvil, 150 to 250 lbs. No luck so
>far except the $1000++ variety. I was about to bite the bullet and
>order the Mankel in Centaur's fine catalog, when a discussion with a
>local farrier gave me cause to reconsider. He and others are not to
>pleased with Mr. Mankel's anvils. He did go on and on about an
>anvil, pronounced "cole slaw", I don't know the proper spelling.
>Short on time, I didn't find out if this is a brand or a pattern.
>
>What is a "cole slaw"?
>
>He also mentioned a Louisiana farrier that is trying to resurrect
>this type of anvil, which lead me to believe it might be a pattern.
>
>Vance


Vance,  "Kolswa" pronounced 'cole slaw' is a Swedish anvil of recent
manufacture.  They are made of steel and the hardy hole is in millimeters
and the weight in killograms.  I purchased one in 1981 from Centaur.  The
hardy hole was 25 millimeters, a 1 inch hardy had to be ground slightly to
fit.

This is the first time that I have heard of any displeasuer over Mr.
Mankle's anvils.  He does good work.

Mr.Elmer Seybold of Mineral Wells, Texas had some small anvils made up of
Vanadium Steel.  He also had a collection of large anvils.

The best anvil I have ever used is the Laurel Foundry 185 pound anvil made
by Gene Malloy of Laurel, Mississippi.  After 22 years, I replace my
favorite anvil with a Laurel Foundry anvil.  This anvil is a joy to use, it
is not expensive for a new anvil, about $660.  I highly recommend this
anvil.  Gene casts the replacement parts for the Little Giant hammers.

For years I have preached that the most important tool in the blacksmith
shop is the forge.  If you can't heat it, you can't beat it.  I have seen
some beautiful ironwork made on the most sway backed, edge chipped, dead
sounding anvils that you could imagine, but it is nice to work with an
exceptional anvil.

Enjoy life.

 PS, Cris Marks of Breaux Bridge, La has a Laurel Foundry anvil.

Bladesmith & Bowie Historian


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan  6 17:44:39 1996
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From: jbbatson@ro.com (James Batson)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Tool Steel
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>Any suggestions for sources of tool/spring steels in odd sizes and small
>quantities?  For example, I need a small amount of 5160 in 5/16 x 1 bar
>stock, but can't locate a vendor which lists such.
>
>David C. Hufford


David, buy 1/4 by 1 1/2 inch bar stock and forge to size.  Admiral Steel
advertizes in the Blade and Stanley Spring out of Harrisburg, Pa. stock
this size.  Call information for phone number.

Jim


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan  6 17:45:06 1996
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From: methomas@ssi.parlorcity.com (Mark Thomas)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: RE: Anvil's Ring and Mr. Biddle
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After listening to all that's been said about the content of The Anvil's
Ring and Greg Biddle I thought would add my thoughts, too.
  I was of the same opinion a few years ago, but instead of writing to
express my concerns, I just let my membership lapse and went on to other
avenues of information.  While at a rendezvous, I met a blacksmith who I
talked to for a long time.  He told me about a group of people who would
actually let me watch them blacksmith and answer my questions, too.  They
turned out to be the Indiana Blacksmithing Association and it has been the
best education I have found.  They have answered my rookie questions, showed
me their techniques and methods, and invited me to their shops.  One of the
things which Paul Moffet (President) has said is important, besides safety,
is the need to belong to ABANA.  I have come to the conclusion that ABANA is
more than The Anvil's Ring or The Hammer's Blow, both of which I like.  It's
the common thread between the local chapters and a clearinghouse of
information.  I was fortunate enough to have an offer for a new publication
come to me just before my membership expired.  It was the Blacksmith's
Journal and I have subscribed to it from the first issue on.  If I hadn't
been a member, I would have missed a lot of fantastic information that I
would have dug for for a long time, if I found it at all.  ABANA and my
local chapter both offer me a LOT of information for beginning
blacksmithing.  I would rather buy or borrow the books or tapes (FAQ type
stuff) and let the main publication show me what I can strive for, rather
than to expect them to stay at the beginning level.  I even like some of the
artist type pictures and articles. I find that I pick up ideas even if the
overall subject might not appeal to me. I would like to thank Mr. Biddle for
writing to AR and causing me to think about how fortunate I am.

Mark Thomas
Markle,IN

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan  6 17:53:08 1996
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From: KRITT15286@aol.com
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Looking for information on the use [procedures, jigs,etc.] of a shop
hydraulic press. I recently purchased a used 60 ton H-frame press. I have
lots of ideas for its use but absoutly no practical experience. I apreciate
the input.
                                                           Thanks
                                      
                                                            Dick Kolpack
                                 
                         

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan  6 18:05:53 1996
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From: Steve Smith <steve@cc.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re:Anvils... 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960104212302.23045A-100000@ccpl.carr.lib.md.us>; from "albind@ccpl.carr.lib.md.us" at Jan 4, 96 9:39 pm
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A ringing anvil can be pretty hard on your hearing...

If you tie them down tightly to a stump or what have you, the ring will
usually die out. This might be why two folks wrote in, one with a
ringing Kolswa and one without a ring.

--
Steve Smith
steve@cc.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan  6 18:05:55 1996
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From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <williams@color.wff.nasa.gov>
To: donc@san-marcos.pls.com, theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Blacksmith Guild of Central Md.
In-Reply-To: donc@san-marcos.pls.com (Don Cunningham)
        "Blacksmith Guild of Central Md." (Jan  5,  1:28pm)
References: <199601051828.NAA03713@fianna.pls.com.pls.com>
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On Jan 5,  1:28pm, Don Cunningham wrote:
> Subject: Blacksmith Guild of Central Md.
>
> Pardon my posting this to the general list but direct email to
> the address shown for Mr. Drzewianowski bounces with "unknown host".
>
>
> > From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Jan  4 21:43 EST 1996
> > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 21:39:37 -0500 (EST)
> > From: albind@ccpl.carr.lib.md.us
> > To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
> > Subject: Re:Anvils...
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CREN
>
> > Albin Drzewianowski
> > Editor, Blacksmith Guild of Centrl MD
>
>
> I read your reply to the anvils thread on 'theforge' list and noticed
> that you are associated with the Blacksmith Guild of Central MD.  Could you
> please provide me with some information about your organization.  I live in
> southern Pa. near Emmitsburg Md. and just recently started to learn
> blacksmithing
>
>                                  Thanks
>                                  Don Cunningham
>-- End of excerpt from Don Cunningham

Don,

I've sent email to Albin and I assume that he gets it. Maybe not ...

Anyway, you may be interested in attending Bill Gichner's Hammer-In this
weekend. Bill supplies food, drink and demonstrators. The charge is 0. The
location is Ocean View, Delaware which is just east of Bethany Beach. As far as
I know, it starts about 8:30 am and goes all day with breaks for lunch &
supper. If you are interested, please give Bill a call to tell him you're
coming. Also, he can give better travel directions. The phone number is:
302-539-5344

Hope to see you there. I'm president of the Furnace Town Blacksmiths Guild
located near Snow Hill, MD on the Eastern Shore. Get hold of me if Albin
doesn't respond.



-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams

Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744

williams@color.wff.nasa.gov

Eat a live toad every morning. Everything else will be better by comparison.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan  6 18:07:14 1996
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From: donc@san-marcos.pls.com (Don Cunningham)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Blacksmith Guild of Central Md.
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Pardon my posting this to the general list but direct email to 
the address shown for Mr. Drzewianowski bounces with "unknown host".


> From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Jan  4 21:43 EST 1996
> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 21:39:37 -0500 (EST)
> From: albind@ccpl.carr.lib.md.us
> To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
> Subject: Re:Anvils... 
> Mime-Version: 1.0
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> Albin Drzewianowski
> Editor, Blacksmith Guild of Centrl MD


I read your reply to the anvils thread on 'theforge' list and noticed 
that you are associated with the Blacksmith Guild of Central MD.  Could you 
please provide me with some information about your organization.  I live in 
southern Pa. near Emmitsburg Md. and just recently started to learn 
blacksmithing

                                 Thanks 
                                 Don Cunningham

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan  6 18:07:16 1996
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From: GEORGE DIXON <73444.316@compuserve.com>
To: TheForge <THEFORGE@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: Too much art - not enough direction?
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Perhaps it is less an art v craft issue than the paucity of articles of how that
art or craft was realized.  The Anvil's Ring should be representative of the
finest work being done today.  That require that the finest work is photographed
and submitted.  The gallery section shows that this is happening to a degree.
The other half of the issue is, to my mind, a desire to learn how that work was
achieved.  From design considerations to tooling to process. This is a valid
desire and serving it is something the Anvil's Ring should also do. Again that
requires that someone who does the work writes, cogently, about how they did it.
That is not happening to any serious degree.

ABANA is not intended to be a pyramidal organization with the bottom supplying
support for the top.  It should be an information sharing, peer reviewing,
display and educational organization. If there is a serious complaint to be made
it is that almost no one among the intermediate or advanced artist-blacksmiths
is writing about how they achieve effects or the tools they make.  

The demographics of ABANA are roughly that something under 10% of the 4000+
members are full time metalsmiths.  (I hesitate to use the word "professional"
because of the incorrect connotations attached to it.  A hobbyist can also bring
an extremely 'professional' attitude to their shop, art or craft as well as can
a full time smith working to pay the mortgage). So what you have is a huge
number of members that want how-to information as well as inspirational pictures
and esoteric articles. (How-to should NOT be construed as only basic.  Try to
find a smith that knows all there is to know about artistic blacksmithing. The
true gulf is in the intermediate areas.)   While  ABANA has to serve both needs,
please realize there is no "ABANA" in an entity sense. The organization is only
what members put into it, no articles = no publications, no volunteers = no
Board, no Conferences, no Chapter officers or newsletter editors.

I point this out to illustrate that if you think there is too much 'art' and not
enough of what you feel there should be it is because someone sent in the 'art'
and no one sent in the other.  When someone demonstrates at a chapter function
help arrange that someone draws and writes about the steps shown.  When you do a
piece, document it and submit the how-to you went through. Lacking that, write a
letter to either editor, for publication, that askes for information about a
piece you saw in a previous issue or a process you want to learn.  The  result
may be to begin a cycle of informational sharing that so many want and need.

George Dixon

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan  6 18:07:19 1996
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From: safparks@teleport.com (Raymond Coon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Tool Steel
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>Any suggestions for sources of tool/spring steels in odd sizes and small 
>quantities?  For example, I need a small amount of 5160 in 5/16 x 1 bar 
>stock, but can't locate a vendor which lists such.
>
>David C. Hufford
>
Find a truck spring manufacturer/re-manufacturer.  They sell their tail
ends, may give some away.  Any large city will have a company that makes
truck springs.  You could use scrap truck/car leafsprings, but I'm told that
there can be fine cracks in the metal.

R. Coon

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan  7 01:39:02 1996
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From: RobertsB1@aol.com
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Mark -
You make a very valid point, thank you.


Bill Roberts
Custom Design Metal Arts
3740 N.E. 40th Pl. #C
Ocala,FL 34479
Roberts B1@aol.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan  7 16:15:53 1996
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Want a good laugh?  Stand back and take a look at what this whole discussion
involves.   I wonder what the average Joe on the street would say if we told
him that we had special interest groups forming within the "Blacksmithing"
community.  Say What? Most people hearing of my lifelong interest in
blacksmithing are amazed when I tell them that there is a worldwide rebirth
of interest in smithing.  That people actully earn a living as artisans in
this ancient craft is hardly believable.  
It doesn't seem that many years ago that the Anvils Ring was a stapled
mimeographed news letter, and I remember being delighted that there were
others also interested in this craft.  I am sure that it was special interest
groups that led to the original demise of smithing, ie, the automobile and
the demands for standardized mass produced forgings and today the aircraft
industry and medica/surgical forgings consume huge amounts of forged
"specialty metals".  Having been involved in ASM for over thirty years, I
have seen similar changes take place, where American Society for Metals has
become American Society for MATERIALS" (interests developed in ceramics,
composites, polymers, etc).
I feel fortunate that there are artisans willing to both share their secrets
and take the time to write articles explaining them.  As a young man I had
the hardest time getting an 80+ year old local smith named Sam Bray to share
his knowledge with me, despite my obvious interest.  He told me that "my
hands weren't hard enough", I suppose meaning that I hadn't paid my dues as
he had as an apprentice some 70 years prior.  Well, apprenticeships in most
metalworking today have vanished (try to fing a tool and die program). With
more and more of us using power hammers and other power tools, the line
between "blacksmithing" and "forging industry" seems more and more vague. The
fact that a bunch of indiviuals facinated by the placticity of metals using
ancient techniques and at the same time communicating on the internet is
wierd enough,  let's try to be a little less arrogant, folks have been
beating iron for over 3,000 years, and don't we wish that all of them had
written down and passed on what the knew!
Happy New Year
Mike Schermerhorn/Kilo-Sierra Forge 
   

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan  7 17:35:21 1996
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From: Noel Gregg <noelg@chch.planet.org.nz>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Knifemaking steels
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I wish to find knifemaking steel eg. 440c stainless or similar forging
steels, smaller amounts for shipping.  Regards to all NG.
Regards

Noel Gregg

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan  7 18:10:52 1996
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From: "S.Kayne"  <kaynehdwe@ioa.com>
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Subject: Western North Carolina Blacksmiths get together
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 On Wednesday January 10 at 7 pm, the Western North Carolina Blacksmiths will
>> meet at the shop of Steve Kayne, 100 Daniel Ridge Rd, Candler, NC.  Steve
>> Kayne will be demonstrating.  All are welcome.  Contact us for directions  
704 667-8868, Fax 704 665-8303.  Steve and Shirley
>


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan  7 20:36:43 1996
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From: bradley@intrepid.net (Bradley Sanders)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Tool Steel
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>Any suggestions for sources of tool/spring steels in odd sizes and small 
>quantities?  For example, I need a small amount of 5160 in 5/16 x 1 bar 
>stock, but can't locate a vendor which lists such.
>
>David C. Hufford
>
Try Small Parts, Inc. in Miami Lakes, Fla. They have tool steel in small 
quantities, as well as a number of other hard to get items, like tubing, and 
springs, & shaft collars, & universal joints. The prices are a little 
outrageous, but it's a great source.

Small Parts, Inc
13980 N.W. 58th Court, PO Box 4650
Miami Lakes, Fl. 33014-0650
Tel 305-557-8222
Fax 1-800-423-9009

                              Bradley Sanders
                         Bradley@intrepid.net>

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan  7 21:49:32 1996
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From: a.sword@ccsi.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Knifemaking steels
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>I wish to find knifemaking steel eg. 440c stainless or similar forging
>steels, smaller amounts for shipping.  Regards to all NG.
>Regards
>
>Noel Gregg
>
Admiral Steel caters especially to knifemakers and has competitive pricing.
I have had good experience with them.  You can call them at 800-323-7055.
They also have a Website that can be found at[ www.steelnet.org/links.html ].

Daniel Watson
Angel Sword Corp.
350 Jennifer
Driftwood, Texas  78619
phone & fax (512) 847-9679
        

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan  7 22:34:49 1996
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From: a.sword@ccsi.com
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I would like to extend the invitation, for those that might be interested,
to visit our website.  It is still under construction and we plan to offer
more information on the hand forged blade. 

                        www.ccsi.com/yeeha/sword/sword2.html


Daniel Watson
Angel Sword Corp.
350 Jennifer
Driftwood, Texas  78619
phone & fax (512) 847-9679
        

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 01:03:14 1996
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From: Hochewa@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Knifemaking steels
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Noel,
440C is very difficult to forge. Of all the 440 series, it has the narrowest
forging range and has the greatest susceptability to hot shortness. Good
temperature control is a must, i.e., dont just depend on color. Also, the
only reason that blades are made from 440C is that they do not rust if you
carefully follow the hardening procedures. The truely great blades are made
from plain carbon steel. The are cheaper, harder, tougher, easier to sharpen,
easier to forge, easier to harden and temper.  

Bill Hochella

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 01:07:20 1996
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From: Randall Gray <Randall.Gray@ml.csiro.au>
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Thankyou Mike Schermerhorn, thankyou George Dixon.

I am not actually a member of ABANA (I *am* a member of one of its
chapters though). but I'll add my thoughts anyway.  The Anvils Ring
can only print what it receives -- people need to write "how-to's" if
they want to read them.  

That "B" in "ABANA" is there for a reason: the people who are members
enjoy hitting hot iron and steel.  An artist who gets no satisfaction
out of the medium might as well work in clay or wood.  An artist who
isn't interested in how other people do things is only depriving
herself or himself of new approaches and techniques.  Similarly, a
philistine smith who really only wants to make tools and functional
things who isn't interested in how an artist made a church gate or
candelabra is probably missing out on some really nifty techniques
too: there may often be utility which is enhanced or embodied in
form.*


-- Randall



*  A really good book in which this theme crops up repeatedly is
George Sturt's "The Wheelwright Shop".  It basically describes the
trade of a wheelwright in the late 1800's and very early 1900's.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 01:32:23 1996
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Chris
Thanks for the input on hydraulic press safety, I will heed.
Dick

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 01:47:56 1996
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Chris, please repost hydraulic press safety tips.
Tom

>Chris
>Thanks for the input on hydraulic press safety, I will heed.
>Dick


goodonya
dtbray@primenet.com


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 02:55:30 1996
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On Thu, 4 Jan 1996 21:39:37 -0500 (EST)  albind@ccpl.carr.lib.md.us 
wrote:

>On the other hand, even though it does not ring, it gives the hammer
>a great rebound.   

I don't know about other folks, but if I am not doing a show, wherein the 
ringing anvil draws prospective customers, I do everything I can to 
silence that puppy.  I think this gentleman is correct in saying "it 
doesn't have to ring to be a good anvil."
 
>The only complaint we have (and this is a real minor one) is that 
>the hardy hole is 1 1/4" (it is probably actually a metric size, but
>measures out at 1 1/4" when you put an English ruler against it).  Few
>of our Guild members have that size hardy hole at home, so it is hard
>to borrow hardy tools that fit. 
>
>Albin Drzewianowski
>Editor, Blacksmith Guild of Centrl MD

Have you tried picking up some scraps of square tubing, 1 1/4" square 
with 1/4" thick walls?  It will allow you to adapt the more common 1" 
shank hardy to a 1 1/4" hole.  It may be a big help!!
-----------------------------------------------------
Name: Franklyn D. Garland        A Hobby Is Hard work
E-mail: frnklyn@mcs.com          You wouldn't Do For
Date: 01/07/96                     A Living.
Time: 18:36:44


http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/
-----------------------------------------------------

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 03:57:49 1996
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In a message dated 96-01-07 20:46:58 EST, dtbray@primenet.com writes:
>
>Chris, please repost hydraulic press safety tips.
>Tom
Sorry, I didn't keep the email on the last postings, but I had sent a reply
regarding the safety precautions to anyone who is unfamiliar with hydraulic
equipment.  For first time users of this equipment, please try to have
someone if possible, give you some guidance on using any kind of power press.
 In lieu of that, I would suggest that when you first experiment with this
machine, to take things very lightly and not attempt any heavy press work
until you can see and understand just what is happening under the ram.
 HYDRAULICS IS A VERY DECEPTIVE SOURCE OF POWER, and though much doesn't seem
to be happening at the beginning of a pressing operation, by the time you do
see it's action, there are already tons of force exerting an unstoppable
amount of energy on your work.  Just remember that if you don't like what is
happening at the moment, you can't make a reflex counter action to stop and
back off.  There is always a residual force acting against the ram, even when
stopped momentarily, then reversed.   If your pieces are not aligned under
the ram, especially in free forming work, then there is a risk of an uneven
press and the pieces can unexpectedly fly out of the press with the velocity
of a missile.  This is especially true if the work is cold, or when a hot
piece is chilled.  Another risk is the shattering of hardened steel if
pressed against an unyielding surface (punching, for instance).  When bending
iron on edge for radius work, if the steel isn't held in alignment with some
type of side guides, it can very quickly bend into a fold and if your hands
are holding the work, then you may have something more than bruised knuckles.
 Once this machine is understood, then it can be a very docile and
pleasurable tool to use, but even experienced mechanics have had unexpected
surprises.  Others may differ on this but I think the safest machine uses a
hand pump which gives you a tactile feedback on the apparent forces applied
to work.  If near maximum pressure is achieved on a press, then by that time,
it gets harder to pump and and you pay more and more attention to the pressed
object.  On a machine with a motorized pump, though it may be controlled in
small increments at the end of a press, the only feedback you get is the
sound of the motor as it strains, and I think only an experienced operator
familiar with his machine can fairly guage the approximate force with his
ears.  I've never trusted the dial gages, but perhaps they're ok, at least to
get an idea of the tonnage used.  When to stop at the end of a pressing, is
only known through experience.  So, I might suggest to those who get a new
tool like this, is to mangle some metal, light stuff at first, use maybe less
than two to five tons of force , and pay attention to how the stuff is
bending in relation to the ram.  Don't ever take it too far, just enough to
see, then try a hot piece, etc, until the "ahaa!" thing happens. Take your
practice slowly because even though you may be getting consistent results for
a while, understand that it only takes a slight misalignment under the ram
for armegeddon to happen, so in time you'll gain enough experience to be more
adventursome.  There's no need to hurry to achieve the results you want, your
ideas will still be waiting for you when the timing is right.  Of all the
machines available for metal working, a hydraulic press with a motorized
pump, used for free form work, is the second scariest thing for me,  next to
a mechanical press, especially when your'e trying an idea you haven't tested
out before.  Once mastered, it can open up possibilities for some wonderful
forms.  Jim Batson uses his for forging and welding laminated stock, Brad
Silberberg does pressed solid forms, Gregg Leavitt presses out bowl forms
into special ring dies he has made, and there are others doing different
things with this tool, and perhaps they can share their experiences better
than I.  My primary use for a thirty ton press is to bend radius shapes on
edge that I can't otherwise do on a hossfield bender, sometimes pressed
forms, but not too much of that.  Of course work that is done on setups built
into press dies, is fairly straigtforward and quite safe, but that is usually
for production pieces, no problem there, I would think. 
Chris Ray


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 15:06:07 1996
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From: MRScherm@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Knifemaking steels
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There are only two mills in the U.S. still making 440c; Carpenter Technology
in Reading, PA, and Latrobe Steel Co., of Latrobe, PA.  Carpenter has an 800
number which puts you in contact with their closest service center to your
location 800-654-6543.  Latrobe sells thru tool steel distributors and may
not even sell 440c except to a select few customers in the ball bearing
business.  You might also try the larger stainless distributors such as
Jorgensen and Castle metals.
Hitachi is a large mfgr. of this grade, and I think that they have U.S.
offices and whse. in Pittsburgh.
Good luck,
Mike Schermerhorn/Kilo-Sierra Forge

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 18:47:38 1996
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From: Noel Gregg <noelg@chch.planet.org.nz>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Knife steels
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Thanks to the people who wrote about the knife steels.0800 numbers don't
work from NZ. I,m a Kiwi.
Regards

Noel Gregg

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 18:51:52 1996
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From: jreiter@hillfirm.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: steel mesh/armor
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I've noticed a few individuals talking about making armor recently. Perhaps 
you can help me. 
I am trying to locate the steel mesh, for lack of a better description, which 
is commonly seen on armor outfits that would have been worn by knights (in 
movies, reenactments, etc.). It seems to be finely woven and often has a 
polished finished. It appears as if it contours whatever it lays upon. Am I 
making any sense?

If you know of a commercial source for this material, sizes, gauges, etc. I 
would appreciate  any info you can provide.

Jeff Reiter
Frankfort, IL
jreiter@ais.net

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 19:28:23 1996
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Subject: Woodville Texas
  
I have heard about a blacksmith meeting in Woodville first saturday
of every month. Does anyone have any information about this?
Woodville is near the Alabama Indian reservation, which I believe is
near Livingston Texas.
  
Thanks
Vance
  
  
 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*  Message From : BURNS, VANCE A.       *
*  Location     : US-HOUSTON(IS3) LAN   *
*  KOMAIL ID    : FVAB94  (IS3     )    *
*  Date and Time: 01/08/96  14:25:34    *
 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 20:10:21 1996
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From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>
To: theforge <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: steel mesh/armor
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>Date: 01/08/96 06:54:06 PM
>Subject: steel mesh/armor

>I've noticed a few individuals talking about making armor recently. Perhaps 
>you can help me. 
>I am trying to locate the steel mesh, for lack of a better description, which 
>is commonly seen on armor outfits that would have been worn by knights (in 
>movies, reenactments, etc.). It seems to be finely woven and often has a 
>polished finished. It appears as if it contours whatever it lays upon. Am I 
>making any sense?

>If you know of a commercial source for this material, sizes, gauges, etc. I 
>would appreciate  any info you can provide.

>Jeff Reiter
>Frankfort, IL
>jreiter@ais.net
 
You are talking about what is known as 'Mail' or 'Chainmail',  which was used 
from
about Roman times through the Middle Ages.  I made myself a shirt out of 14 
guage
stainless wire a couple of years ago which contains about 14000 individual 
links.
I've seen shirts and coifs (for the head) for sale in the Museum Replicas 
catalogs 
(expect to pay about $500-$600).  Phone them at 800-883-0300.

You can make a shirt yourself for about $150 plus 3-4 months.

- Matt.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan  8 20:32:37 1996
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From: MRScherm@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: steel mesh/armor
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Whiting and Davis Co. in Attleborough or North Attleboro, Massachusetts makes
such material for shark suits, and for gloves used by meat and poultry
butchers.  It is type 304L stainless steel welded chain mail and may be what
your'e looking for.  The wire diameter is about .025/.030 inch, and three or
four links are welded to each link.
Mike Schermerhorn
Kilo-Sierra Forge 

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan  9 12:07:58 1996
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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 12:59:07 MET
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From: Ralph Snel <ralph@astro.lu.se>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: steel mesh/armor
In-Reply-To: <m0tZMdk-000DcHC@eagle.ais.net>; from "jreiter@hillfirm.com" at Jan 8, 96 12:49 (noon)
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> I've noticed a few individuals talking about making armor recently. Perhaps 
> you can help me. 
> I am trying to locate the steel mesh, for lack of a better description, which 
> is commonly seen on armor outfits that would have been worn by knights (in 
> movies, reenactments, etc.). It seems to be finely woven and often has a 
> polished finished. It appears as if it contours whatever it lays upon. Am I 
> making any sense?
> 
> If you know of a commercial source for this material, sizes, gauges, etc. I 
> would appreciate  any info you can provide.
> 
I made my mail from 2 mm (galvanised) wire, wound around a 10 mm bar. 20000
rings, with a total weight of 20 kg. I made a coif (the thing on your head)
from smaller rings, same wire but 8 mm bar (if I remember correctly, maybe
it was even 6 mm, but it springs out a bit after winding). This looks much
better and pretty close to the "real stuff", when used as prime protection.
_Under_ full suits of "plate" armour a much thinner version of mail was worn,
a shirt sometimes weighing less than 5 kg (I've seen these in a museum).

And then there's the stuff that you see in movies... It's knitted with a
special pattern, the thread is very thick, and once it's ready you spray-
paint a piece of paper with silver paint and push/rub the knitted stuff on
the paper. Like this the highest parts of the thread get silver painted, and
the rest stays gray. From a distance this looks like the real stuff, if you
don't know what the real stuff looks like in the first place. Else you
recognize it from a mile away.
(I've heard that you can order these knitted suits somewhere in England, and
that you shouldn't get them wet, or you can use them for a kid next time).

Ralph Snel
ralph@astro.lu.se
Sweden

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 10 17:45:56 1996
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From: choestoe@mindspring.com (W. M. Durrett)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: AWS Welding Journal coverstory
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The January issue of the American Welding Society Journal contains an
interesting lead article on welded sculpture, written by Peter Hobart
(emeritus chairman, Hobart Bros.) who is chairman of the International
Sculpture Center in Washington, D.C.  It is a well researched piece,
illustrative of work performed and/ or designed by well known artists and
crafts people from the early part of this century to the present.  Of course
it might not be well received by the purest and most elevated of our "art
metalsmiths", but for those of ample intellect who accept the premise that
artistic endeavor appears in many forms, mediums and expressions, there
should be something here that can be transferred to the processes acceptable
to the reader.  And from an historical basis it is a good read.  Good
evening to all.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 10 17:47:29 1996
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From: clay@grove.net (Clay Spencer)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Western North Carolina Blacksmiths get together
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At 1:10 PM 1/7/96, S.Kayne wrote:
> On Wednesday January 10 at 7 pm, the Western North Carolina Blacksmiths will
>>> meet at the shop of Steve Kayne, 100 Daniel Ridge Rd, Candler, NC.  Steve
>>> Kayne will be demonstrating.  All are welcome.  Contact us for directions
>704 667-8868, Fax 704 665-8303.  Steve and Shirley
Thanks for notice. Weather doesn't look too wonderful.
clay


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 10 17:47:44 1996
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From: svaren@teleport.com (Jaki & Russ Svaren)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re:Safety.          
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           Ladies and gentlemen; I have just about burned the shop , or
maybe the house . down.  If you have a gas forge, please make sure that you
plan carefully the base of your forge.  I did.  I placed two layers of
one-half inch thick asbestos board on the wooden table top[.  On that I
placed angle iron, one-half inch air space, ontop of the angle iron I
placed two layers of 2700 insulating brick. I then built athree layer
heating chamber , flat  dimension, with a 1 and 1/2 inch burner and a
electric coal forge blower I heated 1 inch square stock to forging
temperature easily.
   After some four hours I discovered that I had also heated the surface of
the wooden table to the kindling temperature, and spent the next hour
taking the table top apart in order to put out the fire.  Watch for what is
happening undeneath the forge, you do not want to be surprised.





russ


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 10 17:48:10 1996
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:26:12 -0500
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From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <williams@color.wff.nasa.gov>
To: artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu, theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Bill Gichner's Hammer-In
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On Saturday 6 January 1996, the old and the new gathered at Bill Gichner's
place in Ocean View, Delaware for the 15th annual Hammer In. The demonstrators
included Bob Bergman, Brad Silberberg, Peter Happney, Nana Schowalter and
others. I don't know the "official" attendance, however I know there were more
than 125 because that's when I stopped counting. I learned from every
demonstrator.

In particular, Bob Bergman demonstrated a new air striking hammer designed to
be run by a 5 hp single phase compressor. The hammer runs on  10 C.F.M. at 80 -
100 psi. It weighs about 400 lbs, has a 75 lb ram and a 10" stroke. Bob
compared this hammer to a treadle hammer. I was impressed. The question of max
force of blow was answered by saying the piston area is 5 sq. in. So using 100
psi one get 500 lbs force. Not bad for a hammer that is 5 feet high. Bob is the
mid-west & east coast sales rep. You can reach him at (608) 527-2494 or at the
Postville Blacksmith Shop, N.8126 Postville Road, Blanchsrdville, WI 53516

It may take Bob sometime to get back to Wisconsin, since the BIG snow hit over
the weekend.(Big for this area).

Good demos and good food were the rule. If you're in the area, come to the next
one, 4 & 5 January 1997.


-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams

Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744

williams@color.wff.nasa.gov

Eat a live toad every morning. Everything else will be better by comparison.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 18:45:56 1996
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From: marciii@ix.netcom.com (Marc Davis III )
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: BLACKSMITHING CLASS
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I FOUND A BLACKSMITHING CLASS AT THE CENTER FOR CREATIVE STUDIES IN 
DETROIT MICHIGAN. THERE ARE TWO CLASSES AVAILABLE BLACKSMITHING 
TECHNIQUES AND DAMASCUS INTRO TO PATTERN WELDED STEEL. THE CLASSES ARE 
BEING TAUGHT BY A BLACKSMITH BY THE LAST NAME OF RUEBEL FROM OHIO. DOES 
ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE TEACHER OR CLASS? THE PRICE IS $250 FOR 
ONCE A WEEK FOR 3 HOURS AND IS 12 WEEKS LONG. DOES THIS SOUND 
REASONABLE?

THANKS
 
MARC

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 18:47:35 1996
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From: jelliott@richmond.infi.net (John Elliott)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Forge and Anvil
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I would like to know of other blacksmiths in the Richmond.VA area, I am
trying to push to have WCVE run
this new PBS Series on Blacksmithing, Please help by replying to show
interest. If possible please give me your
Phone number so I support the request I will give to WCVE.
Thanks

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 18:57:56 1996
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From: bk681@freenet.carleton.ca (Robert L. Vaughan)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Ontario Artist Blacksmith Association Meeting
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Ontario Artist Blacksmith Association                       
                                                         
                 Ontario Artist Blacksmith Association
Eastern Chapter

First Meeting


Date:  February 17, 1996

Time:  10:00 to  12:00 p.m.

Place:  Cumberland Museum, 2940 Queen St., Cumberland, 
Ontario



Objective:   To form a group in Eastern Ontario interested 
in blacksmithing.  All are welcome.  

The Ontario Artist Blacksmith Association is an 
organization 
dedicated to the promotion and encouragement of all aspects 
of blacksmithing.

The Eastern chapter is being set up to better serve those
 members in Eastern Ontario.

Topics for Discussion:
Communal forge space available at the Cumberland Museum
ABANA Conference in June
Blacksmiths' Fair  in July
Workshops, seminars, guest demonstrators


You need not be a member of OABA to attend this meeting,
 but memberships will be available.


Refreshments will be served

For further information please call Robert Vaughan 

at 613-730-1721.

E-mail:     bk681@freenet.carleton.ca
l

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 19:01:59 1996
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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 17:04:37 -0800
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From: "The Taylor's" <jwtaylor@cctrap.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: No Mail sence Wednesday
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I'm I the only one not getting the forge.  The last issue i got was last
Wednessday.

Thanks, John

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 19:06:04 1996
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From: TricaHawk1@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Gichner's Hammer-In
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   Sounds like an outstanding slate of demonstrators at the Delaware
hammer-in.

   If you found the air-hammer impressive,  ABANA has plans for Ron Kinyon's
Air Hammer design.  From your description, it sounds identical.  I built one
two or three years ago with limited tools and knowhow, and it hits a lick.  I
learned from experience that Ron's design was very well thought out (i.e., if
I had it to do over again, I would stick more closely to Ron's specs).  If
you use ABANA's plans you should be able to build one for $200 to $600
dollars depending on how much stuff you can find at the scrap dealer's.

Dave Hawkins
Tucson AZ (80 degrees today)

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 19:10:36 1996
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          12 Jan 96 19:32 PST
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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 22:32:35 -0500
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Haven't gotten any mail for two days.  Is everyone gone, or did someone lose
my address???

Jon Leister
ronin@quiknet.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 19:17:34 1996
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From: BSwtKenny@aol.com
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Subject: Deflection Rates???
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Does anyone know off hand, or know where to direct me to find, the deflection
rate of 2x4 tubing, 1/4" wall on a 20 foot span. I have a project that is a
little over my head on the engineering end and I could use some help. Any
help would be appreciated.

Kenny Valdejo
Bittersweet Forge 
Millstadt (Although it is dark, I can see the light on the arch from here) IL

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 19:23:17 1996
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From: jagu@ix.netcom.com (Jason Guptill )
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: steel mesh/armor
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Ring armour or chain mail can be made with various sized rings to 
accomplish the shirt/coif or knee length full suit of mail. The larger 
the dia. of the wire you use generally the lighter (somtimes) the 
wiegth. There are several patterns that can be used to start the mail 
suite refferred to as 3 around 1, 4 around 1, 5 around 1, and 5 around 
2 that I am aware of. The higher density of rings you use the closer 
the knit will be versus the diameter of the ring, thus more protection 
it will give the wearer. 5 around 2 or 5 around 1 is the heavest I have 
ever dealt with, as much as 125 lbs for a full knee lentgh suit with 
coif. There is a Blacksmithing shop in Truckee, California that 
specializes in Medeval armour called McKenzie Smith. Sorry I don't have 
the number for you but I know that they are still there. Cost of a 
average shirt is $500.00 last time I heard a price. It takes about 4 
months to make the rings and put it all together for custom orders.

Jason Guptill
jagu@ix.netcom.com
Fairfield, California 

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 19:26:31 1996
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Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 15:58:20 PST
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From: frnklyn@mcs.com
To: ABANA Mailing List <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: A New ABANA Chapter
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    A friend of mine and fellow UMBA member, Phil Burchnell, has recently 
moved to LaPorte, IN.  This past week he got together with a bunch of 
fellow Blacksmithing enthusiasts in the area and they decided to start a 
new ABANA Chapter.  The current working name is the "Michiana" Chapter of 
ABANA and their reason for wanting to form a new chapter is one of 
geographical location. It seems that the events of the IBA and the 
Michigan Chapter are too far away (3 hours or more) to convienently 
attend.
    So, he asked me to inquire what the steps are to actually form an 
ABANA chapter.  They have a place to meet (LaPorte's faire grounds 
evidentally have a blacksmith's shop and the county is already favorable 
to allowing them to host meetings there) and have selected some board 
members.  What he would like to find out is what the legal steps are or 
where they can get that information.  Is there someplace they can write 
to or someone they can call?
    Unfortunately he is not on line so I am acting as an intermediary for 
him and will forward whatever responses I receive to him.

Thank You All, in Advance!!

-----------------------------------------------------
Name: Franklyn D. Garland        A Hobby Is Hard work
E-mail: frnklyn@mcs.com          You wouldn't Do For
Date: 01/14/96                     A Living.
Time: 15:58:20


http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/
-----------------------------------------------------

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 19:30:49 1996
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From: marciii@ix.netcom.com (Marc Davis III )
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Subject: no mail
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I HAVE NOT BEEN GETTING MAIL FROM THE FORGE FOR ABOUT 6 DAYS NOW. IS 
THERE ANYTHING WRONG WITH YOUR SYSTEM OR DID I GET TAKEN OFF THE LIST? 
THANKS
MARC

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 19:36:05 1996
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From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>
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Subject: Floor covering
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I'm in the process of setting up a shop in my garage which
has a cement floor.  My concern is with fatigue from standing
on it for an extended period.  Does anyone have any
suggestions for a floor covering which could help out but
won't combust?

Thanks,
Matt.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 20:33:51 1996
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From: "S.Kayne"  <kaynehdwe@ioa.com>
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Subject: Clifton Ralph's marbles
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How to tell when you are a BLACKSMITH.  First, buy an anvil, and a bag of 
marbles.  After that, when ever you buy another tool, leave a marble.  Buy a 
tool - leave a marble.  Buy a tool - leave a marble.  When you have lost all of 
your marbles,  YOU ARE A BLACKSMITH!    INDIANA BLACKSMITHING ASSN. 1995.  


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 20:37:25 1996
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From: DAN_NIBBELINK@HP-Loveland-om10.om.hp.com
To: Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.csc@cscmail.csc.com, owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
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Item Subject: Floor covering
     Something I have wanted to try (however it is combustable):
     End-grain wood blocks. Possible sources -- roof truss and pallet 
     manufacturers scrap. Plan: cut in four inch long pieces, lay like a 
     brick patio with grain vertical, wedge tight.
     If you try it please let me know how you like it.
     ??Has anyone tried this or similar?
     
     Dan Nibbelink
     RedHawk Forge


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Floor covering

I'm in the process of setting up a shop in my garage which 
has a cement floor.  My concern is with fatigue from standing 
on it for an extended period.  Does anyone have any 
suggestions for a floor covering which could help out but 
won't combust?
     
Thanks,
Matt.
     

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 20:39:12 1996
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From: DAN_NIBBELINK@HP-Loveland-om10.om.hp.com
To: BSwtKenny@aol.com, owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Deflection Rates???
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Item Subject: Deflection Rates???
     First, I recommend Machinery's Handbook. It has the answer to this 
     question and many more questions that a blacksmith might ask.
     Second, deflection is a function of how the ends are fixed, where the 
     load is, dimensions of the beam and orientation (is height 2 or 4 
     inches?). 
     E-mail direct to me more information and I will post the answer. I 
     need to know if both ends are fixed, one fixed and the other 
     supported, one fixed and the other free, or what. Is the load evenly 
     distributed, at one location or ? Is the material steel?
     
        Dan Nibbelink, Professional Engineer
        RedHawk Forge
        1932 North Hwy 287
        Berthoud CO  80513
        home:   970-532-4387  metro Denver: 444-6704 ext 5570
        work:   970-635-6788
        E-mail: Dan_Nibbelink@HP-Loveland-om10.om.hp.com
     


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Deflection Rates???

Does anyone know off hand, or know where to direct me to find, the deflection 
rate of 2x4 tubing, 1/4" wall on a 20 foot span. I have a project that is a 
little over my head on the engineering end and I could use some help. Any 
help would be appreciated.
     
Kenny Valdejo
Bittersweet Forge 
Millstadt (Although it is dark, I can see the light on the arch from here) IL

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 20:39:20 1996
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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 02:05:53 -0500
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From: SimonianC@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
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Subject: Trademarks, Signatures, Chops, or Stamps
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I am not sure exactly what they are called but I am starting to document the
signatures and hopfully short a short biography of various metal artists.  If
you sign your work then I would like a sample of the signature and a short
biography of when you started, where you started, who you worked for etc.
etc. etc.  Any feedback is welcome.

Thanks
Chuck Simonian
2023 West Tulare Avenue
Tulare, CA 93274

Phone (209) 688-4766
Fax     (209) 684-1979

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 20:41:00 1996
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From: kmfoster@mindport.net (Keith Foster)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: NEB Fall meet
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        Come to New England in the Fall and see the turning of the leaves
and hear the sounds of the local blacksmiths.

        Just announcing that the Fall Meet of the New England Blacksmiths
is schelduled for October 4 thru 6, 1996.  If you are in the area, drop on
by.

        One of the schelduled demostrators is:  Elizabeth Grimm.


        For more information, just drop a message to me at
Kmfoster@mindport.net.  Or stop on by at the Connecticut Blacksmiths Guild
Home (http://www.mvbs.com /cbg/cbg.html) page for up to minute information
on the meet and other new england blacksmithing events.

Keith Foster
President Connecticut Blacksmiths Guild


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 21:03:35 1996
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From: Jacque Shackelford <jsha1@tjc.tyler.cc.tx.us>
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Subject: Re:Anvils...  -Reply
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If you are looking for an inexpensive anvil in Texas, you probably need to
check the grandaddy of all trades days Canton First Monday (which
begins on the Friday before first Monday and runs through Sunday
evening.)  I have bought anvils of exceptional quality there, as well as
other blacksmithing tools. They are usually in good shape and affordable.
You just have to have good eyes to spot them.Any one of similar trades
day/ flea market venues might bear looking into.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 22:14:00 1996
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From: GDixon@gate.ioa.com (George Dixon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: The Slings and Arrows of Outrageous ListServers
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Greetings All,
"TheForge" suffered a software 'crash' at the source, a mainframe at
Washington University, St. Louis.  Due to the weekend and holiday it was
not fixed until today (as should be obvious by now).  Thank you for your
patience, now on with the exchanges..........

George Dixon
ABANA SysOp


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 16 23:23:12 1996
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In message <v01530500ad21d0e3c107@[166.82.181.169]>  writes:
> Greetings All,
> "TheForge" suffered a software 'crash' at the source, a mainframe at
> Washington University, St. Louis.  Due to the weekend and holiday it was
> not fixed until today (as should be obvious by now).  Thank you for your
> patience, now on with the exchanges..........
> 
> George Dixon
> ABANA SysOp
> Out of slings and arrows but we do have a big thank you.  Like everybody else,
we panicked.  Its scary out there. S & S



From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 00:34:31 1996
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From: JFlodin@Polarnet.com (Jan Flodin)
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please cancel me off THEFORGE  thankyou


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 00:53:21 1996
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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 20:52:31 -0400
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From: tomboud@ATCON.COM (Thomas Boudreau)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Floor covering
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>Item Subject: Floor covering
>     Something I have wanted to try (however it is combustable):
>     End-grain wood blocks. Possible sources -- roof truss and pallet 
>     manufacturers scrap. Plan: cut in four inch long pieces, lay like a 
>     brick patio with grain vertical, wedge tight.
>     If you try it please let me know how you like it.
>     ??Has anyone tried this or similar?
>     
>     Dan Nibbelink
>     RedHawk Forge
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Floor covering
>
>I'm in the process of setting up a shop in my garage which 
>has a cement floor.  My concern is with fatigue from standing 
>on it for an extended period.  Does anyone have any 
>suggestions for a floor covering which could help out but 
>won't combust?
>     
>Thanks,
>Matt.
>     
>
>Hello Matt. Short of digging out your concrete floor.... you NEED something
else to walk on, especially if you Blacksmith a lot. One idea would be to
build up your floor, say 2" or so and, around where you work only, add fine
gravel and, or ashes to pack tight. This is the best,safty wise, that I
would say, and it easy to walk on. Keep wooden floors far away from your
main work area.
                                  Note fr. The Blacksmiths of Louisbourg
Yr.1744 (Tom)
                                                  

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 03:08:52 1996
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From: methomas@ssi.parlorcity.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: A New ABANA Chapter
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>    A friend of mine and fellow UMBA member, Phil Burchnell, has recently 
>moved to LaPorte, IN.  This past week he got together with a bunch of 
>fellow Blacksmithing enthusiasts in the area and they decided to start a 
>new ABANA Chapter.  The current working name is the "Michiana" Chapter of 
>ABANA and their reason for wanting to form a new chapter is one of 
>geographical location. It seems that the events of the IBA and the 
>Michigan Chapter are too far away (3 hours or more) to convienently 
>attend.......

I belong to the IBA and live in the north part of the state.  I seem to
recall some people talking about starting a northern group that would meet
alternating with hammer-ins with the southern section.  If you're interested
you might check with Paul Moffet.  Whichever way it goes I would be interested.

Mark Thomas 

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 03:26:20 1996
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From: CROCUSDES@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Floor covering
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I remember the new shop that Jack Hemingway built in Deere Isle Maine many
years ago, and it was the first time I had seen a wood block floor.  Jack was
very happy with it at the time and dropping hot metal wasn't much of a
problem apparently.  The endgrain faced floor (oak, I think), would smoulder
but not burn.  It may be a little bit of a niusance, but didn't appear to be
hazardous unless left unattended, I suppose.  It's very difficult to keep a
flame alive on the end grain of wood.  According to Jack, it was very
comfortable to stand on all day. His floor was set directly into the earth
inside of his shop and had a natural cushion because of that.   I don't think
 it would feel the same laid over a concrete floor.
Chris Ray

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 13:32:19 1996
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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 08:28:21 -0500
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From: ronin@quiknet.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: New Web Site
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Well, 
The CBA Website is up and running.  Most of it is still under construction
as of right now but I should have it pretty much complete within the next
couple of days.  Thanks in advance for checking it out.

http://www.quiknet.com/~ronin/CBA/cba.html

Jon Leister
ronin@quiknet.com


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 13:32:18 1996
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From: RobertsB1@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Kinyon's Hammer
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Dave-
 I'm in the process of building one now. What did you make the frame out of?
I'm curious how many others have built the simple air hammer? It would be
great to see some pictures.
Happy Hammering,
Bill Roberts
Custom Design Metal Arts
3740 N.E. 40th Pl. #C
Ocala,FL 34479
Roberts B1@aol.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 13:50:52 1996
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From: BSwtKenny@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Floor covering
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I use one of those rubber floor mats made of old tire strips that are wired
together. It will burn , but it won't burst into flames. Another advantage is
that you know right away if there is anything on it, unless your nose is
completely dead. I got mine for nothing, so I had nothing to lose, now I
would get another if I needed it. It also helps to insulate when it is cold,
I like warm tootsies.

Good luck
Kenny Valdejo
Bittersweet Forge
Millstadt IL

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 16:28:42 1996
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Subject: Re: Kinyon Hammer
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I built an air hammer a couple of years ago based on the Kinyon design.  It
was originally intended  as a prototype because I was certain that I would
have to make corrections, since I knew nothing about fluid control systems.
 Well, as it turned out, I'm still using the original which at first had a
thirty five pound ram.  Later I modified it to accept a sixty five pound ram
and it's an absolute sweetheart.  There are some wonderful advantages to a
shop built hammer that I haven't seen on the other larger ones, there are
disadvantages too, but for the cost, I can live with that.  Kinyons basic
design is so well thought out because it clearly shows what is important in
terms of components, yet leaves open the option of customizing the basic unit
according to your needs or available material.  I don't think it's quite as
easy (for some) to build as it seems, unless your arc welding technique is up
to snuff, but the key structural components could be sent to another shop for
structural welding if necessary.  I never trusted mig welding for structural
work and only use the arc welder for that, but others may have a different
experience with the mig.  On the other hand, there are other major components
that can be drilled and tapped using hardened machine bolts, which is what I
did, and the machine is pretty secure.  Occassionally, the bolts need to be
checked and tightened after a period of heavy work, but so far, that hasn't
presented any problem.  When possible, I'd reccommend a bolt together
solution for some of the key components, simply because you can obtain better
accuracy with alignment etc. That can reduce the concern for warping during
the welding process.  I'd be glad to share any experience I have with this
hammer if you're interested.  Lately I picked up a couple of new small
cylinders and built an experimental one shot hammer to be used for incising
work, (re. G. Dixon's application for the treadle hammer).  This unit is
compact and portable, has an adjustable head that slides on a 2" sq. column
and has potential as a useful tool.  I'm trying to work out how to regulate
the downthrow via the foot pedal which is probably not too difficult to do.
 If I can develop a safe design, I'd be happy to publish it in the Anvil's
Ring, but I'm really concerned about providing an opportunity for a lawyers
holiday treat, if someone misuses this thing.  If it isn't exactly
bulletproof, (there's always potential for injury, no matter what), then I
may be reluctant to publicly publish the design.  It's unbelievably simple
and I'll try to find a way to share this without incurring a liability risk.
 By the way, it's all for free, no patents etc.!  Anybody, I mean, anybody
can build this thing, without any intimidating techniques required.  It's
basically a drop hammer, with an on and off foot pedal.  There! I did it, an
unattributable hint that may be helpful.  By the way, I thought that Ron
Kinyon touched on the subject at the St. Louis conference, but his approach
wasn't clear to me at the time.  I thought he had a way of regulating the
regular air hammer for controlled one shot use but I'm not sure.  Does
anybody know anything about this?  It would be nice at times to have the
single hammer perform two functions, though I would never want to use it for
incising with my hands under the ram.
Chris Ray

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 18:23:58 1996
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From: FireWil@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Blacksmith: MT Help Wanted
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	We're looking for an experienced blacksmith to join our small forge in
western Montana.  We produce high quality, high end architectural forged iron
work
from hinges to lamps and furniture.
	We need someone with experience forging architectural ironwork and sculpture
in coal and gas forges; we use power hammers and hand tools. We'll also talk
seriously with anyone who has limited experience but an enthusiastic
attitude. Our small company is designed to foster a sustainable, creative
lifestyle, so a good positive attitude is required - this person must be able
to work closely and cheerfully with others. We'd like to find someone who can
join us in challenging one another for continual improvement. Pay will depend
on experience and productivity.

	Please send your resume and photos of your most current projects to:
	FireSong Forge
	696 Little Sleeping Child Road
	Hamilton, MT 59840  (406)363-6872

             FireWil@AOL.com




From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 20:20:07 1996
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From: CROCUSDES@aol.com
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Subject: Re: liability
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From:	steve@cc.com (Steve Smith)
To:	CROCUSDES@aol.com

Dear Chris,

I'm working on a gas forge design similar to the Sandia forge. I think
that my design is a lot simpler, and has additional features that make
it a useful thing to donate plans to ABANA. 

Please let me know if you find out any info on liability as you
discussed in your recent letter to theforge. 

Steve:  I'm no authority on liability laws etc. except I hear too many horror
tales from machinery dealers to who knows what.  It's a lawyer's and clever
client's world out there now, it seems, and they are restricting too much
 free thought and free exchanges of ideas by instilling an unnatural concern
for the consequences of honest efforts to share information.  I don't want to
be a scare maven, it's simply the need to minimize personal risk, especially
where there isn't any personal gain from the sharing experience.  Of course
there's justification for some liability cases but I don't think any of that
should apply to us, unless we promote unneccessary or thoughtless risks (and
who knows how that can be interpreted).  I think there are a couple of
lawyers on the list and I hope one of them can give us a guideline that
enables us to safely share some of the more technical information we have.
 If none respond to this concern perhaps you or I could make a request to
them on the list.  It might be helpful to all of us.
regards
Chris

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 21:50:10 1996
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From: gschade@peterson.polaristel.net
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: floors
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   find a floor mat that you find comfortable and cut out two pieces the
size of your shoes then glue them on!! what could be easier? you should get
a few sets out of one mat. anywhere you go in your shop you will be on a
mat. as far as i know there are no pattens on this idea. another idea would
be to put an old chair out in the shop and sit for a while when you dogs
start barking. thats what i do. robert schade rt1 box 131a peterson
minnesota 55962.


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 17 22:29:11 1996
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Re: no mail service - America on Line hasn't sent email in a week.  I
threatened to get a new provider and a miracle occured, 21 messages.   

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 18 01:02:37 1996
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From: TricaHawk1@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Kinyon Hammer
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   I think a number of people have expressed an interest in having a
"one-shot" shop made hammer (i.e. when you press a pedal it hits one blow and
then recovers when you take your foot off of the pedal).  I have seen a very
nice one-shot hammer at Cal Boyles shop in Phoenix one or two years ago. If
my understanding is correct, he bypassed the 4-way valve that sends air into
the top or the bottom of the air cylinder depending on the location of the
switching gizmo that rides in a ramp on the ram.  Instead the air supply
comes from the regulator to a foot pedal valve.  When the foot pedal is
depressed, air goes into the top of the cylinder (the hammer hits a blow).
 When the foot pedal is released, the cylinder recovers (the hammer moves
up).  The force of the blow is determined by the pressure setting on the
regulator.

   Cal Boyles had his hammer and anvil set up like the common treadle hammer
design which allowed for quick change dies/tools.  Very slick.  Cal Boyles
was doing some very nice flowers etc. under the hammer.  I want one.

    

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 18 02:24:06 1996
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From: "Gilbert H. Watkins" <73114.1162@compuserve.com>
To: ABANA-BB <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Dale the Tinker
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To those of you who have met Dale the Tinker over the years, I have sad news.
Dale died of cancer on Monday January 15th.
Funeral will be held at Highlawn Presbyterian Church, in St Albans WV at 1pm,
Saturday Jan 20.
Dales wife is
Mrs Dale Cottrill
PO Box 21
St Albans, WV 25177
304-727-0530
Dale was a good Tinker and is well respected in his craft.
Gil Watkins
Coal River Blacksmithing
St Albans, WV
(Striving to be known as a craftsman)

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 18 03:29:47 1996
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From: Irondoctor@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Floor covering
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HI,
     I use rubber mats ,they burn a little if you drop yellow hot 
metal on them ,But I just pick it off with a pair of tongs or kick 
it away with my foot ,so far they have lasted about five years 




                                                                          Bob
trout




                                                                      ontario
, NY

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 18 14:37:06 1996
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From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>
To: theforge <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Blacksmithing and the Web
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Yesterday I spent about 45 minutes bouncing aroung
the World Wide Web in search of blacksmithing related
topics.  It's amazing what is out there.  Natually the ABANA
page was my first stop, followed by the North Carolina group's
page and then the Connecticutt group's.  Although many
areas are 'under construction' (I guess you could say the metal
is still a dull red), the possibilities are endless.  If you have not
taken the opportunity to check the Web out, I'd highly recommend
it.

- Matt Balent

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 18 14:52:34 1996
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From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>
To: theforge <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: BLACKSMITHING CLASS
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Subject: BLACKSMITHING CLASS
-------on 1/11 Marc Davis III wrote:

I FOUND A BLACKSMITHING CLASS AT THE CENTER FOR CREATIVE STUDIES IN 
DETROIT MICHIGAN. THERE ARE TWO CLASSES AVAILABLE BLACKSMITHING 
TECHNIQUES AND DAMASCUS INTRO TO PATTERN WELDED STEEL. THE CLASSES ARE 
BEING TAUGHT BY A BLACKSMITH BY THE LAST NAME OF RUEBEL FROM OHIO. DOES 
ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE TEACHER OR CLASS? THE PRICE IS $250 FOR 
ONCE A WEEK FOR 3 HOURS AND IS 12 WEEKS LONG. DOES THIS SOUND 
REASONABLE?

THANKS
 
MARC
=============================================================================
I can't comment on the 'value' of the class vs others but I've requested a 
catalog from
CCS (since I live close by) and will post the information when it arrives.

- Matt Balent
member, Michigan Artist Blacksmith's Assoc. 


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 18 15:44:28 1996
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From: CROCUSDES@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Kinyon Hammer
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nice one-shot hammer at Cal Boyles shop in Phoenix one or two years ago. If
my understanding is correct, he bypassed the 4-way valve that sends air into
the top or the bottom of the air cylinder depending on the location of the
switching gizmo that rides in a ramp on the ram.  Instead the air supply
comes from the regulator to a foot pedal valve.  When the foot pedal is
depressed, air goes into the top of the cylinder (the hammer hits a blow).
 When the foot pedal is released, the cylinder recovers (the hammer moves
up).  The force of the blow is determined by the pressure setting on the
regulator.

Yes, a one shot variation on the hammer can be done that way, and the little
unit I made does the same without the 4-way valve.  However, the problem I'm
trying to resolve, is how to enable the head to quickly rebound on the
return, and to be variable on the downstroke through the foot pedal (an in
line needle valve can work but needs another hand to adjust, and I only have
two, damnit).  The problem with the original configuration, is with the
dwell.  In other words, the ram stays pressed on the chisel for instance
until it is reversed by the foot pedal.  For incised work, you would want a
kind of rebounding action so as the head quickly moves up, the chisel slides
naturally into the next position, then you strike, etc.  In other words, to
replicate the kind of natural control you have with a regular treadle hammer
( though this has a dwell too).  I've done incising with a range of hand held
air chisels, and this is fine for large work, but it's difficult to control
for precision work, not to mention, uncomfortable and noisey.  If anyone has
any ideas or would like to work out a solution with me, let me know and I'm
sure we can find the answer that will give us a reasonable solution.  Another
approach, which I would hate to take, is to use an electrical control system
with solenoids, variable resistors etc.  One more wire cord on the floor to
mess with just doesn't cut it with me, not to mention potential breakdown
problems.  The one advantage of such a system, in it's favor, is quick
response time.  Actually, and this is veering off a little bit (naturally), I
have thought of an electrical hammer based on the sewing machine principle
with a variable controlled footpedal.  This kind of device should also be
very easy to make, though some machining on the mill and lathe may be
required (not a problem here). It could also be a little expensive for a
prototype, but what the hell.   If there is anyone in the Philadelphia area
who would be interested in working with me on an electrical hammer and can be
helpful doing drilling and tapping and sharing ideas, let me know, I'll do
the machining etc., and we each can have one.  Just one last thought that
occured to me before I sign off.  Can an electric hammer drill be setup on a
column with a spring lever adjusting plate  and be useful for incising on
platework?  I bet it can be done and for not much more than the cost of the
hammer drill (still a little expensive for testing an idea).  Of course, it
would still be unacceptably noisy, the same as an air chisel set up the same
way, but without a compressor.
Chris Ray.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 19 00:43:37 1996
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From: KRITT15286@aol.com
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Subject: Thanks to Mark Williams
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Dr. Williams
Thanks for Jims address
Love those Toads
Dick

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 19 14:30:57 1996
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Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 09:25:36 EST
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From: "Charles Orlando" <orlandoc@asc.alfredtech.edu>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Kinyon Hammer
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Ron will be giving an excellent presentation on the building of his 
hammer at the 1996 ABANA convention.  Don't miss it.
Charley Orlando

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 19 16:28:09 1996
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From: CROCUSDES@aol.com
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Subject: Air = "Aerotyke" / Electric = "Electrotyke"
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From:	steve@cc.com (Steve Smith)
To:	CROCUSDES@aol.com
CC:	steve@cc.com

Dear Chris,

This is starting to sound interesting. A couple of ideas:

  A motor crankshaft might be a good way to generate the eccentric
motion (at least if you spend as much time in junkyards as I).

  You could go all the way to a helve hammer or drop hammer--just use
the motor to raise the weight to the top, foot pedal drops the weight
(free fall). This would make changing the amount of impact very easy.
Either change the weight, or the drop height.

I don't think I know what you meant by 'similar to a sewing machine
with adjustable foot'. My comment about holddowns came from my
misunderstanding. Could you elaborate?


Steve:   I think that I was unclear about what an electric hammer is intended
for so let me back up a bit.  To move metal in a serious way, an air hammer
is the better approach and that is a parallel issue which is currently being
discussed on the list.  No, where air might not be the ideal source of power,
is for very light work especially for incised applications.  Have you ever
seen George Dixon use the treadle hammer for his hand held chisels and
chasers to work on sheet metal?  If not, try to get to one of his demos at
some of the conferences or workshops.  When you hold your workpiece in one
hand and a small chisel with or without a handle in the other, you can have
wonderful control in doing this kind of work.  When you think about it, how
many thousands of light blows (yes, thousands), are you applying by hand with
a hammer to work over a surface?  It's quite a bit of work and of course you
need one hand to hold the chisel, one for the hammer and a means to secure
the workpiece (onto pitch or lead sometimes).  Now think about how a
seamstress works with cloth on a sewing machine.  She holds her material
usually with both hands, (in our case, one hand), and can meticulously guide
the workpiece with a great deal of precision, (embroidering?), while at the
same time, by using a foot pedal, she can  regulate the speed of the machine
needle at a very low speed, almost to a gliding stop.  I envy such a device
that could do something with that kind of control, for certain kinds of work.
 Is this any clearer?  Does it make any sense?  Your suggestions indicate
that once we come together on purpose and principle, we can work something
out together and perhaps with others on the list as well.  You seem to know
something about stepper motors, which I'm totally unfamiliar with, and  we
should be able to work out a viable transmission system to activate the ram
head with a degree of precision.  This machine is for a rather specialized
purpose and may not be of much interest to a lot of the folks, but if
designed properly, could be very useful.  I still haven't given up on
development of the little air device I mentioned in an earlier post.  If a
way can be found to modulate the reciprocation, so that the force of each
blow is determined by a foot control, then that is the easiest and most
economical way to go.  Also because of the simplicity of an air driven
device, I think anyone could make a machine for himself.  The electric device
is going to require some machining skills, though it needn't be on an
advanced level.  Tolerances +/- 2 thousands, or so would be fine on this type
of machine.  Well, let's keep thinking about both or either of these ideas
and see where it leads us.  By the way, to keep both approaches to a small
incising type hammer clear, let's give each project a name so either one can
be identified specifically when we exchange ideas.  Sooner or later one or
the other approach will be abandoned and the prevailing concept can be
pursued with full concentration.  I actually think the air approach will
eventually win out.  Let's call the air project "Aerotyke" and the electric
project "Electrotyke".  Stupid names perhaps, but at least it's an identity.
regards
Chris

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 19 16:47:49 1996
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From: CROCUSDES@aol.com
To: steve@cc.com
Cc: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: A last minute thought
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Steve:  It just occured to me that there are folks on the metalworking
newsgroup list that have all kinds of expertese in mechanics and machining.
 These folks are more than willing to share and exchange ideas and maybe we
can interest someone from another discipline to become engaged in this
adventure.  Let me think about writing a post to that group and try to
express the projects in terms that may challenge and interest them.  There
may be applications for the little hammers that someone in that group may
find useful for a different kind of work.  A lot of these guys (mostly guys),
are retired machinists and very skilled homeshop craftsmen who enjoy
excercising their skills on projects that exist for their own sake.  Well,
I'll think about how I'll word the post so it can be understood without the
need for any smithing knowledge.
regards
Chris

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 19 17:39:11 1996
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Sounds like a good idea. I have www access, but no news access, so if
some neat ideas surface, please let me know.

--
Steve Smith
steve@cc.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 20 05:04:31 1996
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Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 00:00:41 -0600
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From: clay@grove.net (Clay Spencer)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: A New ABANA Chapter
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At 3:58 PM 1/14/96, frnklyn@mcs.com wrote:
>    A friend of mine and fellow UMBA member, Phil Burchnell, has recently
>moved to LaPorte, IN.  This past week he got together with a bunch of
>fellow Blacksmithing enthusiasts in the area and they decided to start a
>new ABANA Chapter.  The current working name is the "Michiana" Chapter of
>ABANA and their reason for wanting to form a new chapter is one of
>geographical location. It seems that the events of the IBA and the
>Michigan Chapter are too far away (3 hours or more) to convienently
>attend.
>    So, he asked me to inquire what the steps are to actually form an
>ABANA chapter.  They have a place to meet (LaPorte's faire grounds
>evidentally have a blacksmith's shop and the county is already favorable
>to allowing them to host meetings there) and have selected some board
>members.  What he would like to find out is what the legal steps are or
>where they can get that information.  Is there someplace they can write
>to or someone they can call?

Contact the ABANA Office at PO Box 206, Washington, Mo 63090, 314-390-2133
or Compuserve 72603,3540.
John Pollins, III, is Committee Chairman. 74040.1506@compuserve.com
The requirements are:
1. Identify at least 5 current ABANA Members who are in the group.
2. List your group members(name, address, phone) on a roster with ABANA
members noted.
3. Pick a name and list it as you would like it to appear on the ABANA
Chapter listing.
4. Elect and list your group's officers, i.e. President, 1st Vicepresident,
Secretary, Treasurer and Newsletter Editor if you have one.
5. Draw up a set of By-Laws and send copy to the ABANA Office.

After you have this, send a letter petitioning for chapter status.

We highly recommend incorporation as a non profit organization and getting
your status approved by the IRS.

Personally, I recommend a group such as this explore the possibilities of
becoming a subgroup of one of the existing chapters. They could be members
of Indiana BA or Michigan  ABA  and have meetings at their local area.
Tha Alabama Forge Council has a central organization with 12 local forges
who meet at their local area. We have one newsletter, one conference and a
blade symposium and we give about 15 scholarships each year.

Clay


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 20 21:21:41 1996
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From: dhoopes@gvi.net (David Hoopes)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Air = "Aerotyke" / Electric = "Electrotyke"
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>From:	steve@cc.com (Steve Smith)
[snip]
>I don't think I know what you meant by 'similar to a sewing machine
>with adjustable foot'. My comment about holddowns came from my
>misunderstanding. Could you elaborate?
>
[snip]
I really like this idea, but my wife is going to hate you when I 
take apart her sewing machine.

How big of a hammer are you talking about?  25lbs or less?  

------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Hoopes
dhoopes@gvi.net
Lenexa, Kansas (Near Kansas City, Mo)

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 20 22:08:31 1996
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From: CROCUSDES@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Air = "Aerotyke" / Electric = "Electrotyke"
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David:  Actually, wouldn't it be great if we could make a mongo sewing
machine for sheet metal.  That would impress your wife and she would forgive
you for wrecking her machine.  The little incising hammer that I've been
thinking about would have a light ram, maybe five to ten lbs.  The
experimental one I now have has about a five pound ram and it may be a little
light.  You have to understand that this is more like a treadle hammer in
purpose rather than a power hammer.  As a power hammer, it  would not be very
functional.  It's used to tap the end of a hand held chisel for incised work
and I don't think we would want a massive ram (even 25lbs) coming down on our
hand held chisels.  The hammer wouldn't do much more than that but would save
a lot of wear and tear on the wrists and forearm muscles and possibly
forestall  carpal syndrom problems.  Well, it's not a great idea, but just
another approach to use for incised work.  
regards
Chris

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan 21 03:34:13 1996
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From: SimonianC@aol.com
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Subject: Are we on yet?
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I'm just sending this to see if we are back on yet.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan 21 05:32:25 1996
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Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 00:24:48 -0500
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From: GDixon@gate.ioa.com (George Dixon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
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>I'm just sending this to see if we are back on yet.

You had been 'deleted' during the crash apparently, I resubscribed you so
you should be good-to-go...
George


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan 21 19:34:49 1996
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yes, I started receiveing your mail mid last week.
Michael

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan 21 21:08:25 1996
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From: choestoe@mindspring.com (W. M. Durrett)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Hinge identification
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I am presently restoring and building pintles for a set of fleur-de-lis
design hinges removed from stable doors at Buckingham Palace.  I will guess
that they were made during the first half of the nineteenth century.  Just
aft of the finial is a wrist bar with an incised design consisting of a saw
tooth pattern with a double row of round indentations at the elevation of
and midway between the apex of each tooth.  This design has often been
copied and used, but several months ago, prior to receiving these hinges, I
ran across a discussion in some reference in my library as to who is
credited with first using this pattern.  I have been unable to again find my
reference due in part to the extensive nature of my library and partly to a
cluttered mind.  If any bells ring I would appreciate being pointed in the
correct direction.  Many thanks.  Bill Durrett.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 22 15:50:09 1996
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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 07:23:39 -0500
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From: jbbatson@ro.com (James Batson)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Trademarks, Signatures, Chops, or Stamps
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>I am not sure exactly what they are called but I am starting to document the
>signatures and hopfully short a short biography of various metal artists.  If
>you sign your work then I would like a sample of the signature and a short
>biography of when you started, where you started, who you worked for etc.
>etc. etc.  Any feedback is welcome.
>
>Thanks
>Chuck Simonian
>2023 West Tulare Avenue
>Tulare, CA 93274
>
>Phone (209) 688-4766
>Fax     (209) 684-1979

Chuck, a few years back, Dr. Mike Shaffer of the Tully Smith Backsmith
Guild in Atlanta, GA published a list of Blacksmiths and their marks.  He
did not list a bio as you intend to do.

Jim Batson

Bladesmith & Bowie Historian


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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 06:59:14 -0500 (EST)
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From: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
To: TheForge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Iron Smelting
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For anyone who might have an interest in the history of iron technology, 
there is an article by Gill Juleff in the January 4, 1996 issue of 
Nature (vol 379, pp 60-63) titled `An ancient wind-powered iron smelting 
technology in Sri Lanka'.  It's a report from an archaeological project 
which describes a unique type of natural-draught furnace which dates to 
about the first century AD.  Field trials with replicas indicate these 
wind-powered furnaces are capable of producing high-carbon steel, 
including `wootz'.  Perhaps someone could build one of these furnaces on 
the west side of a hill in their back yard and produce some Damascus?

David C. Hufford

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 22 16:29:46 1996
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From: "D. M. Dickie" <mdickie@awinc.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Hammer Dies
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I have a 25 lb. Little Giant hammer with drawing (they have a slight crown)
dies. I have just seen Clifton Ralph's videos, and am intrigued by the
additional possibilities offered by the use of flat dies, though I realize
they are limited by the size of my hammer.

I have a spare set of brand new drawing dies for the hammer.  Would anyone
be interested in trading for a set of flat dies in new condition?  I suppose
that because of the complications inherent in trading across international
borders, it would be simplest to trade with a fellow Canadian, if there are
any of you on the list, but I am willing to talk with anyone.

This is the second time I have tried to post an item on the list, and have
not received any kind of reply to my first attempt.  I am very new to this
e-mail stuff, and would appreciate any kind of reply to this one, just to be
sure that I'm actually doing it right.


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 22 16:29:47 1996
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From: "John W. Pollins III" <74040.1506@compuserve.com>
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Subject: Video Piracy
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:	INTERNET:JHrisoulas@aol.com, INTERNET:JHrisoulas@aol.com
TO:	(unknown), INTERNET:KNIFE-LIST@UNIBLAB.BASIS.COM
DATE:	1/21/96 12:02 PM

RE:	Video Piracy

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Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 11:42:01 -0500
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To: knife-list@uniblab.basis.com
Subject: Video Piracy
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Well all, I never thought that I would be writing something like this, but
something happened of a serious nature. A friend of mine from California sent
me a video tape of my video, pirated by SANDBEE Productions in Miami,
Florida.

This is a blatant case of piracy and I am taking the steps required, but I
need a bit more help in finding out if anyone else has seen or obtained these
illegal videos. This information is very important as I need it to ascertain
how widespread the circulation of these illegal tapes are.

Now some of you may be worried that this will get you in trouble...I can say
with 100% confidence that you will NOT be held accountable if you have
purchased one of these tapes in good faith from a video supplier....I am the
copyright holder and I am going after SANDBEE, not the poor guy who thought
he was doing right by me....

Okay, the real tape, the one that I did with Paladin Press is a two tape set,
in two black cassette boxes. The bootleg version is the same length of video
at 3 hrs 20 minute +, but is a single tape.  These people have ripped me off,
are using my name, my information, showing pictures of my copyrighted work,
and violating my copyright on my books as well and they have the nerve to say
that the tapes that they are selling with NO royalties to me, or the company
that I licensed to produce the real video, Paladin Press are COPYRIGHTED!
 Yeah they are copyrighted alright, by me and I will prosecute these pirates
to the fullest extent of Fedreal law and then I will start the civil suit as
well!

So if anyone has any information, no matter how insignificant they feel it
is, please contact me!

Thank you for your time, but this really has me P.O.'d big time....Sorry to
take up your time, but this is important to all of us who has ever written
any sort of article or  any other information that has been re-produced in
any kind of media....


Thank you!

Jim Hrisoulas

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 22 17:32:10 1996
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From: Phill Jackson <d2a@pacificrim.net>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
References: <m0teOcz-000290C@awinc.com>
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Can't help you with the hammer dies, but your message came here just 
fine.

Phill in Friday Harbor, WA

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 22 20:19:46 1996
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From: safparks@teleport.com (Raymond Coon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
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>You wrote:

>This is the second time I have tried to post an item on the list, and have
>not received any kind of reply to my first attempt.  I am very new to this
>e-mail stuff, and would appreciate any kind of reply to this one, just to be
>sure that I'm actually doing it right.
>
>
Message received.  Sorry, I can't use the dies.  I am sort of looking for a
25# Little Giant, though.  Trying to get an idea of how much I should pay,
availability, etc.

Ray Coon
Portland, OR



From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 22 21:47:04 1996
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From: JHrisoulas@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
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Ray:

Never thought that I'd see someone I know on this list...just found out about
it oh, two days ago or so..

On the 25#, I have found a couple in CA if you are interested, e-mail be
direct!

DrH

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 22 21:47:27 1996
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From: SimonianC@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Trademarks, Signatures, Chops, or Stamps
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I hope this hasn't posted as many times as I have sent it, and my apologies
if it has.

I am not sure exactly what they are called but I am starting to document the
signatures and hopfully short a short biography of various metal artists.  If
you sign your work then I would like a sample of the signature and a short
biography of when you started, where you started, who you worked for etc.
etc. etc.  Any feedback is welcome.

Thanks
Chuck Simonian
2023 West Tulare Avenue
Tulare, CA 93274

Phone (209) 688-4766
Fax     (209) 684-1979

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 00:45:33 1996
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From: DAN_NIBBELINK@HP-Loveland-om10.om.hp.com
To: mdickie@awinc.com, owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
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Item Subject: Hammer Dies
     Dear mdickie@awinc.com (it would be easier if you told us your name 
     and location)
     
     I don't have dies to trade, but I wanted to make sure you and theforge 
     knew that new dies and all parts for Little Giants are available from
                Little Giant/Automotive Inc.
                Sid Suedmeier
                420 4th Corso
                Nebraska City, NE 68410
                402-873-4372
     
     Dan Nibbelink
     RedHawk Forge
     Berthoud, Colorado



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

I have a 25 lb. Little Giant hammer with drawing (they have a slight crown) 
dies. I have just seen Clifton Ralph's videos, and am intrigued by the 
additional possibilities offered by the use of flat dies, though I realize 
they are limited by the size of my hammer.
     
I have a spare set of brand new drawing dies for the hammer.  Would anyone 
be interested in trading for a set of flat dies in new condition?  I suppose 
that because of the complications inherent in trading across international 
borders, it would be simplest to trade with a fellow Canadian, if there are 
any of you on the list, but I am willing to talk with anyone.
     
This is the second time I have tried to post an item on the list, and have 
not received any kind of reply to my first attempt.  I am very new to this 
e-mail stuff, and would appreciate any kind of reply to this one, just to be 
sure that I'm actually doing it right.
     
     

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 03:03:17 1996
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From: clay@grove.net (Clay Spencer)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Trademarks, Signatures, Chops, or Stamps
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At 4:42 PM 1/22/96, SimonianC@aol.com wrote:

>I am not sure exactly what they are called but I am starting to document the
>signatures and hopfully short a short biography of various metal artists.  If
>you sign your work then I would like a sample of the signature and a short
>biography of when you started, where you started, who you worked for etc.
>etc. etc.  Any feedback is welcome.

Chuck
I have just FAXed you a copy of Mike Shaffer's list that Jim Batson mentioned.
Clay


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 03:32:54 1996
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From: clay@grove.net (Clay Spencer)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
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At 7:57 AM 1/22/96, D. M. Dickie wrote:
>I have a 25 lb. Little Giant hammer with drawing (they have a slight crown)
>dies. I have just seen Clifton Ralph's videos, and am intrigued by the
>additional possibilities offered by the use of flat dies, though I realize
>they are limited by the size of my hammer.

The use of flat dies in a 25 lb hammer is seriously limited.
I have used flat dies some in my 25 and am not very satisfied with the
results. Keep your drawing dies.
The biggest advantage of flat dies in the 25 is that your tools are easier
to control on the flat surfaces.
Clay


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 03:37:34 1996
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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 22:30:43 -0500
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From: GDixon@gate.ioa.com (George Dixon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: ABANA Down Under
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>X-POP3-Rcpt: gdixon@gate
>Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 16:24:16 -2100
>From: Ralph <IRLS@imag.WH.SU.EDU.AU>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>To: GDixon@gate.ioa.com
>Subject: (no subject)
>
>Could you please send me any info on your group in Australia
>Thanks
>Ralph
>
>--
>Ralph Lawson-Smith
>Data Manager               _______||_________________________
>Radiology                 |_______  _________________________>
>Westmead Hospital                 ||
>Westmead N.S.W 2145
>Australia
>(02) 633-7805
>home page http://www.usyd.edu.au/su/radiology/rls.htm
>


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 03:43:18 1996
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From: marciii@ix.netcom.com (Marc Davis III )
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: fuel type? and teacher?
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I ASKED THESE QUESTIONS BEFORE BUT DURING THE MAIL PROBLEM LOST 40 
PIECES OF MAIL BEFORE I COULD READ THEM SO I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE 
ANSWERED OR NOT.

1) WHAT IS THE MORE EFFICIENT FUEL NATURAL GAS OR PROPANE? IS THERE A 
DOWN SIDE TO EITHER IE..WON'T WELD EASY OR CAUSES MORE SCALE?

2) HAS ANYONE HEARD OF A BLACKSMITH NAMED HANS RUEBEL FROM THE OHIO  OR 
WISCONSON AREA? HE IS IN HIS MID TWENTIES. HE IS TEACHING BLACKSMITHING 
TECHNICS AND DAMASCUS PAATTERN WELDED STEEL AT THE CENTER FOR CREATIVE 
STUDIES.

ANY HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED

MARC

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 06:09:12 1996
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From: RobertsB1@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
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D.M.-
 Your e-mails getting thru.
Happy Hammering,

Bill Roberts
Custom Design Metal Arts
3740 N.E. 40th Pl. #C
Ocala,FL 34479
Roberts B1@aol.com
robertsb@pig.net

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 06:39:37 1996
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From: "D. M. Dickie" <mdickie@awinc.com>
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Thanks to everyone who replied to my last posting re. flat dies for the 25#
Little Giant.  I was pleased to get all the mail, especially from some of
you famous 'smiths I've been reading about in the Anvil's Ring and in the
Hammer's Blow for the past few years.  I know now that I'm actually "on the
Net".  This cyperspace stuff can be a lot trickier than drawing out a square
taper!

D. M. (Mike) Dickie
Flatlander Forge


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 07:15:36 1996
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From: DNietfeld@aol.com
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Just saw your address on the net.  I use to ski at Berthoud Pass.  Is that
where Berthoud is? 


Dick

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 08:57:15 1996
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From: Cawith@aol.com
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Dear Jim, You should be POed to the max and I wish you good look in taking
these crooks to the cleaners. My wife is an Indepentant producer/director of
films so I know what you are going through. You may know this already but if
you don't take them to court you could loose your copy right on the material.
I have not seen any pirated copies but if I do I will let you know. Give 'em
hell.
Craig Withrow

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 17:21:49 1996
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--
Steve Smith
steve@cc.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 17:49:15 1996
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Well, my previous message didn't work. I must have forgotten to save
the text. Here it is again as best as I remember it:

It seems to me that a small electric hammer for chiseling/chasing
could be made in a fashion similar to a power hammer (i.e. Little
Giant). You could make the eccentric motion by using a VW engine case
and crankshaft, taking the drive motion out one of the piston holes.
The main problem I see with this approach is speed control. Instead of
a slip clutch as on a power hammer, I think a speed controlled motor
might do the job. 

An AC motor is really tough to control speed on. A DC motor, on the
other hand, is really easy--just vary the voltage applied to the
motor, and the speed varies. The big advantage of DC motors in
variable speed applications is that their torque stays constant over a
very wide range of speeds. 

The trick here is getting a DC motor big enough to drive a 5-10 pound
hammer! Crawl around in the junk yards/surplus stores. 

I suspect that the traditional linkage on a power hammer might not be
the best for this use. Some kind of give is needed so you don't smash
the chisel through the work.


--
Steve Smith
steve@cc.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 19:29:52 1996
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From: a.sword@ccsi.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Trademarks, Signatures, Chops, or Stamps
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In response to many requests, Angel Sword now has a partial catalog of our
one-of-a-kind Bright Knight swords. Please visit our updated web site at
http://www.ccsi.com/yeeha/sword/sword2.html.  We hope to have a list of our
Angel Sword pieces and a list of our antique swords on the web in the coming
months.

Meanwhile, drop us a line to let us know if you are interested in any
particular style. We can email a listing and .ftp photos.


Daniel Watson
Angel Sword Corp.
350 Jennifer
Driftwood, Texas  78619
phone & fax (512) 847-9679
        

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 27 18:55:05 1996
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Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 12:51:47 -0600
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From: chris Hubbard <t80cjh1@corn.cso.niu.edu>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
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I am rather new at the forge so I thought you "experts" out there might be
able to answer a question.  Is it possible to forge stainless steel and if
so where can you get it?  We have all seen the "forged" stainless steel
flatware in the houseware catalogues.  Is this stuff real (i.e. forged) and
if so how tough would it be for me to do the same thing?  Chris Hubbard

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 27 19:06:12 1996
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Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 12:33:08 PST
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From: frnklyn@mcs.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades 
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On Fri, 26 Jan 1996 17:05:40 -0500 (EST)  David C. Hufford wrote:
>At the Quad State conference last September, Peter Sevin demonstated a 
>method of brasing band saw blades.  He had a clamp jig to hold the ends 
>together and brased a butt joint.  He had been doing this for some time 
>and reported it worked great.  Perhaps someone who was at that 
>demonstration (and has a better memory than I) could further explain 
>Peter's technique.
>
>David C. Hufford
>

Brazing band saw blades is a VERY old techniques that you will probably 
see mentioned in just about any woodworking book.  I have a 1945 "Popular 
Mechanics" issue which oulines brazing the ends of a broken blade 
together with "brass spelter, borax and a parafin torch."  I just 
question how much use this technique would be with metal cutting blades.  
The kerf of the saw through the metal is much less forgiving than the 
kerf through wood.  Most commercial sources seem to butt/arc weld and 
then grind smooth on the sides.  The band saw source near me has a gizmo 
that cuts/welds/grinds the blade.  The operator just measures out the 
length of the finished blade and the machine does the rest.

-----------------------------------------------------
Name: Franklyn D. Garland        A Hobby Is Hard work
E-mail: frnklyn@mcs.com          You wouldn't Do For
Date: 01/27/96                     A Living.
Time: 12:33:08


http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
-----------------------------------------------------

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 27 23:15:21 1996
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From: choestoe@mindspring.com (W. M. Durrett)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Power Hammer Die Material
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For my 100 # Murray I have built several dies using 4140 hot rolled,
normalized, aircraft quality obtained in bar stock 3" x 4".  Other
dimensions are available.  This material is available from Jorgensen Steel
and Aluminum (an allied company with Kilsby-Roberts) from their Chicago
warehouse.  It can be ordered through any division office.  After machining,
preferred heat treatment is in a vacuum furnace to Rockwell C-42.  Be
certain to machine the bottom of each die so that all force is transfered
evenly to the ram and sow.

Depending on the width of the ram and sow die-ways, a compound die can be
slid off center if much work is to be performed on one side.  However, after
twenty five years on my Murray, there does not seem to be any abnormal wear
on the ram ways.  Use copius lubrication.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan 28 04:31:45 1996
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From: RobertsB1@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Anvil Ring: feature stories
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George-
  This sounds like a great idea. I'm always inspired and educated when I have
the opportunity to visit someone's shop/studio. I had that pleasant
experience today at a quarterly meeting of the FL chapter of ABANA.  Besides
a full day of demonstrating by Roberta Elliot the attendees had the pleasure
of being in a clean , well organized, well equipped, metal studio. Including
some unique tools. Speaking about unique tools-can anybody tell me anything
about a Pullmax?
This is apparently an older,hydrolic machine that was used to work sheet
metal(dishing,grooving or veining, as well as cutting or nibbling circles up
to 5 1/2 to 6 ft. due to it's deep throat[up to 1/4"thick]) Any input would
be appreciated-How old,what industry, and most important of all where can I
get one? That's  more  than 2 cents so I'll sign off and just say if this
"feature" idea catches on maybe we can expand it to the WWW page.
P.S. George-Thanks-I got the WWW chapter page format disk. Looks like
something even I can do. Thanks again. I'll be in touch.
 Happy Hammering, 

Bill Roberts
Custom Design Metal Arts
3740 N.E. 40th Pl. #C
Ocala,FL 34479
Roberts B1@aol.com
robertsb@pig.net

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan 28 14:52:27 1996
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From: osan@mtnet1.mt.att.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades
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David C. Hufford wrote:

>At the Quad State conference last September, Peter Sevin demonstated a 
>method of brasing band saw blades.  He had a clamp jig to hold the ends 
>together and brased a butt joint.  He had been doing this for some time 
>and reported it worked great.  Perhaps someone who was at that 
>demonstration (and has a better memory than I) could further explain 
>Peter's technique.

Hmmm...  I have to say I am quite skeptical of the safety of this. 
If it was safe I suspect you'd see a lot more of it given that it
is a lot simpler to  equip yourself with brazing apparatus (any
generic torch will do) that with the specialized welding apparatus
used in butt welding bandsaw blades.

I have no doubt it can be done and that it  works but I myself
would not feel comfortable with this method.  Bending fatigue 
is going to be more of a problem than with a welded blade.
It would also seem that there's a greater margin for error 
in a welded joint than in a brazed one.  When brazing, the
quality of the joinery is far more critical than in welding
since there's no joining of the parent metals.

I'd be very interested to know just how well this method
works regarding joint integrity.

	-Andy V.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan 28 16:38:01 1996
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From: "D. M. Dickie" <mdickie@awinc.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Fly press
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Hi Again!

Am really enjoying the discussion on the list, and have learned some things.
This is a great way for smiths to get together, though it would be nice to
be able to see some pictures.  It would be easier to clarify one's thoughts
sometimes by seeing a diagram.  No doubt that will come soon enough, unless
it's already here, and as usual, I just don't know about it!

About 3 or 4 yrs. ago, I had the priveledge of visiting Bill Callaway's shop
in Phoenix where besides seeing some very fine blacksmithing and
fabricating, I got my first look at a fly press.  I have often thought since
that it would be a fun thing to have, but I know I wouldn't be able to find
one anywhere around here, or be able to afford it if I did.  It seems that
most 'smiths prefer the treadle hammer for veining and stamping, but I
wonder if anyone has any thoughts or perhaps even plans for a home built fly
press?  I have only been close to one once, but it seems to me that a small
scale version shouldn't be all that hard to do.  Any thoughts out there?

D. M. (Mike) Dickie
Flatlander Forge

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan 28 19:03:09 1996
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From: jbbatson@ro.com (James Batson)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades
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>David C. Hufford wrote:
>
>>At the Quad State conference last September, Peter Sevin demonstated a
>>method of brasing band saw blades.  He had a clamp jig to hold the ends
>>together and brased a butt joint.  He had been doing this for some time
>>and reported it worked great.  Perhaps someone who was at that
>>demonstration (and has a better memory than I) could further explain
>>Peter's technique.
>
>Hmmm...  I have to say I am quite skeptical of the safety of this.
>If it was safe I suspect you'd see a lot more of it given that it
>is a lot simpler to  equip yourself with brazing apparatus (any
>generic torch will do) that with the specialized welding apparatus
>used in butt welding bandsaw blades.
>
>I have no doubt it can be done and that it  works but I myself
>would not feel comfortable with this method.  Bending fatigue
>is going to be more of a problem than with a welded blade.
>It would also seem that there's a greater margin for error
>in a welded joint than in a brazed one.  When brazing, the
>quality of the joinery is far more critical than in welding
>since there's no joining of the parent metals.
>
>I'd be very interested to know just how well this method
>works regarding joint integrity.
>
>        -Andy V.


Andy, there is no problem, been doing it for years.  These kits are now
being sold by mail order houses.

Cut a 1 1/1 to 2 inch section out of one leg of a piece of angle iron, 1/8
by 1 by 1 inch, which is about 6 or 8 inches long.  Clamp angle iron in a
vise with the cut out facing up on the side of the vise so thet you can
direct a flame under the slot.  You can use a straight butt joint or a
scarfed joint.  Use borax for flux and hard silver solder.  Clamp both ends
of the blade to the angle iron with two pair of vice grips.  The joint
should be in the middle of the cut out.  Make sure the blade is lined up
correctly.  Dab some wet borax on joint.  Heat joint till borax melts.
Place small amount of fluxed solder on top of joint and heat from bottom
making sure both edges are being heated at the same rate.  The solder
should flow at a dull red.  Solder flows from cold to hot.  Let the joint
cool slowly.  You should not have a brittle joint if the blade was kept
below critical temperature.  If everything was aligned and you didn't use
to much solder, the joint will require  a minimum of cleanup and be strong.


Jim


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sun Jan 28 19:47:02 1996
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From: IronmanRAS@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: wall calendar
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One of our members sent this to me for publication in our chapter newsletter
and I throught that maybe she would recieve some input from people online.
Jody is not oneline so please send all submissions to her.  Thank you!

Send me your Best Shot/
Give me your best tip

I am putting together a 1997 wall calender which will feature photos and shop
tips and techniques from artist-blacksmiths around the country.  Pull out
your best photo or write out a simple tip or technique and send it in.

*Contributors will not be comprensated, but those who send in photos which
are selected will receive a free calandar.
*Photos must be black and white professional-quality, preferably no smaller
than 5" x 7"
*Tips and techniques nust be legible and clearly understood without drawings
or sketches.  Please be concise.
*Photos and tips will be returned if a self-addressed, postage-paid envelope
is included.
* The selection process will be based on the quality of the photo and its
suitability for the layout.  A variety of items will be selected from as many
geographic areas as possible.  As many photos as possible will be used.
* Please include the following information with your photo and tip, if
applicable
      -first and last name
      -address
      -phone number
      -fax, if available
      - item title and/or description
      -dimensions
      -comments, if desired
*Submissions must be received no later than May 15, 1996
*Send submissions to     Jody Best
                                    Hidden Hills Forge
                                    RD 1 Box 141
                                    Confluence, Pa  15424
*Calendars will be available for sale (price is still undetermined) by the
end of summer.

From jalex  Tue Jan 23 19:16:37 1996
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From: NC ABANA Webmaster <jalex@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: Suppliers list (fwd)
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NC ABANA Webmaster - NC ABANA Homepage on SunSITE
=================================================
North Carolina Chapter, Artist Blacksmith Association of North America
<> WWW URL: http://sunSITE.unc.edu/nc-abana
<> ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/art/blacksmithing [also /incoming] 
<> [or: ftp sunsite.unc.edu, cd pub/academic/art/blacksmithing/incoming]
<> gopher://sunsite.unc.edu/11/.pub/academic/art/blacksmithing
Email for the NC ABANA Webmaster may be sent to:
jalex@sunSITE.unc.edu or london@sunSITE.unc.edu,
and for posting information to the homepage or 
ftp/gopher archives: ncabana@sunsite.unc.edu


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 14:40:47 -0500
From: S.Kayne <kaynehdwe@ioa.com>
To: jalex@sunSITE.unc.edu
Subject: Suppliers list

Please add us to your suppliers list.   Peddinghaus anvils, tongs, hammers at 
discount.  Swage blocks, gas forges.  Pyramid head lag screws and wood screws.
Kayne & Son Custom Hardware, 100 Daniel Ridge Rd, Candler, NC 28715  (704) 
667-8868,  Fax (704)665-8303,  E-Mail Kaynehdwe@ioa.com.

Enjoyed seeing the work that you've done in the NCAbana gallery.  We're going 
through our apprenticeship in computer operation and need all the basic training
we can get.  S & S Kayne


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 23 20:38:14 1996
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From: geoff@ihug.co.nz (G Merryweather)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: forging video
References: <199601231804.MAA14692@wugate.wustl.edu>
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>I have a 25 lb. Little Giant hammer with drawing (they have a slight crown) 
>dies. I have just seen Clifton Ralph's videos...

  What video is this? What does it cover and where do you get it from?
Thanks
Geoff
Avant-Garde Engineering
Woodturning, general engineering and fabrication.
General Blacksmithing and power forging to 2cwt
Ph/ Fax 64-9-2669936

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 12:17:00 1996
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 07:08:41 -0500 (EST)
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From: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
To: TheForge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Tong Retainers
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A fellow at the Quad State conference last September was selling sets of 
tong retaining clips.  As a devout gadgeteer, I purchased a set.  When 
I finally got around to trying them out, I was surprised how well they 
work.  The clips are quick to attach/detach to/from the reins, and hold 
tight.  In certain operations, I find they hold the workpiece better 
than I can by hand grip alone.  There was a similar clip which can be 
made from a 1-inch washer described in the Jan-Feb 95 BAM newsletter 
(vol 12, no 1), but I have no experience with that version.  Just 
thought I'd mention this for those who might be interested.

David C. Hufford

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 13:48:30 1996
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From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>
To: theforge <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Sources for Coke
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Anyone know of a source for coke in the Michigan area?  If not in the area,
a place which will ship?

Thanks.

Matt

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 14:41:46 1996
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look in the yellow pages under "Foundry Suppliers".

Dr JP Hrisoulas

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 15:02:09 1996
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From: JHrisoulas@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Trademarks, Signatures, Chops, or Stamps
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You know you might want to ask for a sample of the chop on one of those small
round brass machinist tags.. That way you will see exactly what the chop
looks like.

JPH.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 15:15:58 1996
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From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <williams@color.wff.nasa.gov>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: williams@osb1.wff.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Sources for Coke
In-Reply-To: JHrisoulas@aol.com
        "Re: Sources for Coke" (Jan 24,  9:37am)
References: <960124093726_405124039@mail02.mail.aol.com>
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You may wish to contact these companies. They may have retail dealers in your
area or they may ship small orders.

Reading Anthracite Co.
Pottsville, PA 17901
717-622-5150
717-622-2612  fax

Graphite Sales Inc.
Chagrin Falls, OH 44022
800-321-4147
216-543-5183  fax

Anthracite Industries
Sunbury, PA 17801
717-286-2176
717-286-2329  fax

Cummings-Moore Graphite Co.
Detroit, MI 48209
313-841-1615
313-841-4880  fax

Let us know what you find out.


-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams

Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744

williams@color.wff.nasa.gov

Self-confidence is walking barefoot through a cowpasture at midnight on a moonless night.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 15:21:29 1996
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From: BSwtKenny@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
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I too was impressed by Clifton's video, and by Clifton. By the way, he is
very, very subdued in the video as compared to live. Any way, I have had very
little success with the 25lber ala Clifton. The dies are just to small and
the throw of the ram is not long enough. You will also need to install a
brake so that you can hit one good lick. I use a flat bottom die and a
drawing die on top. This works pretty well for me I can use some special
handled tools with it but not very effectively. I use it mostly for drawing
and use the treadle hammer for the more involved stuff. I have even adapted
my smithin' magician for use under the treadle hammer. I guess it all boils
down to what you are going to do with them. 99% of my work is 1" or smaller
stock and 90% is 3/4" or smaller. My setup works well for this type of stock.

Bon Chance MOn Ami

Kenny Valdejo
Bittersweet Forge
Millstadt IL 

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 16:26:22 1996
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From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>
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Subject: Re: Sources for Coke
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Cummings-Moore in Detroit gave me the following information:

500# (in 50# bags) is 24.5 cents a pound ($12.25 a bag) for coke.

Thanks for the info.

Matt

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 16:26:59 1996
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From: "Harold E. McKinney" <mcvistas@abaco.coastalnet.com>
To: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>,
        theforge <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: RE: Sources for Coke
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Don'cha hope the DEA isn't running a keyword search on the net?  If they are 
we blacksmiths are in deep doo-doo! :-)
Mac
----------
From: 	Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>
Sent: 	Wednesday, January 24, 1996 8:35 AM
To: 	theforge <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: 	Sources for Coke

Anyone know of a source for coke in the Michigan area?  If not in the area,
a place which will ship?

Thanks.

Matt


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 16:57:27 1996
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From: jreiter@hillfirm.com
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Subject: Power Hammer Workshop
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Is anyone familiar with Sid Suedmeier's power hammer workshop, which is coming 
up Mar 22-24 in Nebraska City, NE???

I don't own a power hammer yet but plan to buy one this year. In his workshop, 
they cover evaluation (for purchase), inspection, teardown, repair, etc. of a 
Little Giant 25lb old style hamer and some of the above for a new style LG. 
The fee is $85.

Have you attended his workshop? How did you like it?

Thanks,

Jeff Reiter
Frankfort, IL

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 17:20:44 1996
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From: safparks@teleport.com (Raymond Coon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Sources for Coke
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>Cummings-Moore in Detroit gave me the following information:
>
>500# (in 50# bags) is 24.5 cents a pound ($12.25 a bag) for coke.
>
>Thanks for the info.
>
>Matt
>
I called one of the local steel mills in Portland and talked to a purchasing
agent to get the name of their supplier.  I then talked to the supplier who
eventually gave me a couple of buckets full to try out.  Morgan Hall and I
then proceeded to burn the grate out of his forge making a damascus billet.
The stuff is _hot_.  Morgan checks this list and may want to discuss the
different setup required for burning coke.


Raymond Coon
Portland, OR

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 17:56:54 1996
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From: Hochewa@aol.com
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No need to shout.
Natural gas is not usually available at 30 psi or so unless you are an
industrial user. It is also variable in BTU content. The local gas company is
only required to supply 1100 (?) minimum BTU's per cubic foot. When the
demand is high, that is all you get. When the demand is low you get more.
They actually dilute the gas with air. Natural gas out of the well head is at
best about 96% methane anyway. The other 4% can be almost anything. Propane
is more consistent as it is "distilled" out of crude oil or other
hydrocarbons. Natural gas will burn hotter but with some fooling around you
can match the flame temperature with propane, i.e., a recuperative forge like
the Sandia design. Also propane tends to be portable.

Good Luck, 

Bill Hochella

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 17:57:31 1996
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From: Hochewa@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
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To All,
The radius on the dies actually helps in the working of the material. They
work a greater proportion of the cross section and the material moves faster
with less energy. Flat dies only worl the surface layers and that can lead to
some problems with internal bursting if taken to the extreme. I have seen die
sets with both radiused and flat areas for what I think would be the best of
both worlds.

Bill Hochella

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 24 18:46:28 1996
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From: GDixon@gate.ioa.com (George Dixon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
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I keep a set of flat dies on one power hammer to drive tools and a set of
half-and-half (slight crown on one half and flat on the other half) on
another hammer for direct forging of stock.  The half and half approach is
the way to go for versatility on a single hammer.  You need flat surfaces
for driving punches, fullers, hacks etc but the slight crown will move
stock fast when hit hard and do a good job of smoothing with a lighter
touch.  A note, the crown of a die should be eliptical in cross section
rather than round.  This will leave less pronounced marks and allow you tp
draw and smooth with the same face far more easily than with a round
section.


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 25 15:23:36 1996
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From: DNietfeld@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Power Hammer Workshop
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I attended his workshop and was very satisfied.  I wish I would have attended
before I purchased my Little Giant.  Nebraska City is a quaint town with good
facilities.  Sid has many power hammers and parts which are interesting in
themselves.  In the class you participate in taking apart a power hammer (a
25# in my class), rebuilding whatever is necessary, putting it all  back
togeather, and practicing with it and with other power hammers of different
weights and styles.  Other various models/styles of hammers are also covered
in the training.  There were about 30 people in attendance which Sid said was
a few more than he likes,  but I thought all went well and enjoyed visiting
with those in attendance.  There were people there from as far away as
California.  If you don't know what to look for in a power hammer before you
buy one this class could save you lots of money and grief.

Dick Nietfeld
Grand Island, NE    

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 25 15:23:52 1996
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From: Hochewa@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu, Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com
Subject: Re: Sources for Coke
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Shall we call it destructively distilled metallurgical coal instead?

hochewa 

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 25 15:24:34 1996
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From: freemanb@pt.Cyanamid.COM
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Hello from the Allaire Village Blacksmith Guild
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     Hello,
     
     This is my first posting to this group, having just received 
     acknowledgement of my subscription, so I don't know yet how active a 
     forum it is.
     
     I am a member of the Allaire Village Blacksmith Guild.  Historic 
     Allaire Village (Wall, Monmouth Co., NJ) is a state-owned historic 
     site run by a non-profit corporation, Allaire Village, Inc. (AVI).  
     The Guild is a group within AVI.
     
     A few years ago the Guild was organized to improve the interpretation 
     of the blacksmithing trade at Historic Allaire Village.  Interest was 
     strong and a great deal of effort went in to repair the facilities (we 
     have a four-forge blacksmith shop, built of brick) and get the tools 
     in order, supplies maintained, and volunteers trained.  Our membership 
     stands at about 35 people, and we can draw a large percentage of those 
     to a meeting, training session or clean-up, so enthusiasm is high.  We 
     still have much to do to accomplish the goal of having the shop 
     staffed and open to the public five days a week with smiths who can do 
     more than make S-hooks.  But we're getting there.
     
     Anyone interested in joining the guild can email (with name, address 
     and me and I'll pass the name along.  Organizations which would like 
     to exchange newsletters can also contact me for information.
     
     One final note:  Some of our members are interested in expanding our 
     horizons as a group.  The suggestion has been made that we should form 
     a local chapter of ABANA.  If anyone can comment on how this could be 
     done, I'd appreciate the information.
     
     Bruce Freeman

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 25 15:56:37 1996
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:53:58 -0600
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Sender: owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
From: clay@grove.net (Clay Spencer)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Clifton Ralph Power Hammer Tapes
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At 3:25 PM 1/23/96, G Merryweather wrote:
>>I have just seen Clifton Ralph's videos...
>  What video is this? What does it cover and where do you get it from?

Clifton Ralph was an industrial blacksmith in a steel mill in Gary, IN. He
started in his teens and worked into his sixties. He was using large steam
hammers and working heavy stock.
Now he tries to educate blacksmiths in use of power hammers. His tapes are
about 8 hours of using hammers, his tools and jigs. Paul Moffett, President
of Indiana Blacksmiths Association did the taping. They are not
professional but they are good quality and Clifton cleaned up his language
(or Paul bleeped him). This is the most info for learning to use flat dies
on 100 and 250 lb power hammers available.

Power Hammer Classes and Video Tapes
Call Clifton to sign up for his classes or purchase($200)/rent tapes.
Clifton Ralph, 4041 W. 47th Avenue, Gary, IN 46408, phone 219/980-4437.

The best bargain in blacksmithing is to take one of Clifton's 5 day Power
Hammer Classes (only 6 students per class). He charges $200 and Bill and
Jane Manly allow the use of their shop and dorm, including use of kitchen
free. You get lecture, demo and hands-on work in a nice shop right on the
lake in Kingston, TN. Clifton brings a ton (literally) of tools and jigs to
show you how to use.
Clifton is scheduled for cataract surgery soon so he may not teach his
usual class this spring. When he gets 6 or 12 blacksmiths on his list he
will schedule a class.

The tapes are also available for rent from the ABANA Library.  You may
contact ABANA at P.O.Box 206, Washington, MO 63090 or call 314-390-2133.

Clay


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 25 15:58:13 1996
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From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>
To: theforge <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: BLACKSMITHING CLASS
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I got a schedule of 'Extension' courses from the Center for Creative Studies 
(CCS)
which gives the following write up on the two classes:
Blacksmithing Techniques
Monday 7-10pm
Jan 22 - April 15 (12 weeks) $250
"Emphasizes the use of the traditional techniques of blacksmithing steel.  
Students
investigate forging, upsetting, riveting, collaring, wrapping, punching, 
twisting, 
and forge welding".

Damascus - Introduction to Pattern Welded Steel
Wednesday 7-10pm
Jan 24 - April 15 (12 weeks) $250
"An introductory course that explores the techniques of forge welding different 
alloys
of steel into decorative patterns to be used in jewelry, knifemaking, and 
sculpture.
Previous blacksmiting experience helpful but not necessary".

Extension courses are open to all.  These two are taught at the CCS main campus 
in
Detroit, MI (behind the Detroit Institue of Arts) in the Cultural Center.  For 
information
or to get on the mailing list for future course catalogs, call (313) 872-3118 
ex 520

- Matt

________________Original Message________________________________________
Date: 01/11/96 03:22:00 PM
Subject: BLACKSMITHING CLASS

I FOUND A BLACKSMITHING CLASS AT THE CENTER FOR CREATIVE STUDIES IN 
DETROIT MICHIGAN. THERE ARE TWO CLASSES AVAILABLE BLACKSMITHING 
TECHNIQUES AND DAMASCUS INTRO TO PATTERN WELDED STEEL. THE CLASSES ARE 
BEING TAUGHT BY A BLACKSMITH BY THE LAST NAME OF RUEBEL FROM OHIO. DOES 
ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE TEACHER OR CLASS? THE PRICE IS $250 FOR 
ONCE A WEEK FOR 3 HOURS AND IS 12 WEEKS LONG. DOES THIS SOUND 
REASONABLE?

THANKS
 
MARC

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 25 18:30:10 1996
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:23:12 -0600
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Sender: owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
From: clay@grove.net (Clay Spencer)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: ABANA Chapter Requirements
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At 10:56 AM 1/25/96, freemanb@pt.Cyanamid.COM wrote:
>
>     One final note:  Some of our members are interested in expanding our
>     horizons as a group.  The suggestion has been made that we should form
>     a local chapter of ABANA.  If anyone can comment on how this could be
>     done, I'd appreciate the information.
>     Bruce Freeman

The current requirements to become an ABANA Chapter are:


1. Identify at least 5 current ABANA Members who are in the group.
2. List your group members(name, address, phone) on a roster with ABANA
members noted.
3. Pick a name and list it as you would like it to appear on the ABANA
Chapter listing.
4. Elect and list your group's officers, i.e. President, 1st Vicepresident,
Secretary, Treasurer and Newsletter Editor if you have one.
5. Draw up a set of By-Laws and send copy to the ABANA Office.

After you have this, send a letter petitioning for chapter status.

Contact the ABANA Office at PO Box 206, Washington, Mo 63090, 314-390-2133
or Compuserve 72603,3540.
John Pollins, III, is Committee Chairman. 74040.1506@compuserve.com

We highly recommend incorporation as a non profit organization and getting
your status approved by the IRS.

Clay


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 25 18:34:00 1996
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From: clay@grove.net (Clay Spencer)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: CHESTFORGE@aol.com
Subject: Exchange Newsletters
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At 10:56 AM 1/25/96, freemanb@pt.Cyanamid.COM wrote:
>     Hello,
>
>     This is my first posting to this group, having just received
>     acknowledgement of my subscription, so I don't know yet how active a
>     forum it is.
>
>     I am a member of the Allaire Village Blacksmith Guild.  Historic
>     Allaire Village (Wall, Monmouth Co., NJ) is a state-owned historic
>     site run by a non-profit corporation, Allaire Village, Inc. (AVI).
>     The Guild is a group within AVI.
>
>     A few years ago the Guild was organized to improve the interpretation
>     of the blacksmithing trade at Historic Allaire Village.  Interest was
>     strong and a great deal of effort went in to repair the facilities (we
>     have a four-forge blacksmith shop, built of brick) and get the tools
>     in order, supplies maintained, and volunteers trained.  Our membership
>     stands at about 35 people, and we can draw a large percentage of those
>     to a meeting, training session or clean-up, so enthusiasm is high.  We
>     still have much to do to accomplish the goal of having the shop
>     staffed and open to the public five days a week with smiths who can do
>     more than make S-hooks.  But we're getting there.
>
>     Anyone interested in joining the guild can email (with name, address
>     and me and I'll pass the name along.  Organizations which would like
>     to exchange newsletters can also contact me for information.
>
>     One final note:  Some of our members are interested in expanding our
>     horizons as a group.  The suggestion has been made that we should form
>     a local chapter of ABANA.  If anyone can comment on how this could be
>     done, I'd appreciate the information.
>
>     Bruce Freeman
Hi Bruce,
Glad to have you with us.
If your newsletter includes some how to info on blacksmithing and not just
info on AVI, The Alabama Forge Council would be like to exchange
newsletters. Send to Clay Spencer, Editor, Route 2, Box 509-C, Murphy, NC
28906-9260. Send me a mailing address and I'll send you a copy of
Bituminous Bits and Bill Richardson will put you on our list.

Clay Spencer
Treadle Hammer Man
Editor, The Bituminous Bits, the Journal of the Alabama Forge Council


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 25 22:28:28 1996
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From: frnklyn@mcs.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies 
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On Wed, 24 Jan 1996 13:27:56 -0500  George Dixon wrote:
>I keep a set of flat dies on one power hammer to drive tools and a set 
of
>half-and-half (slight crown on one half and flat on the other half) on
>another hammer for direct forging of stock.  The half and half approach 
is
>the way to go for versatility on a single hammer.  

I have often wondered about "half and half dies."  Do they cause excess 
wear on the ways of the power hammer by applying force off-center?  I 
have considered making a set several times but have not been able to get 
the answer to this question.  My #50 Mayer was built in 1918 and I think 
replacement ways would be a bit tough to come-by.    

-----------------------------------------------------
Name: Franklyn D. Garland        A Hobby Is Hard work
E-mail: frnklyn@mcs.com          You wouldn't Do For
Date: 01/25/96                     A Living.
Time: 16:00:21


http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
-----------------------------------------------------

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 00:03:55 1996
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:04:18 -0500
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From: methomas@ssi.parlorcity.com (Linda Thomas)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Tong Retainers
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>A fellow at the Quad State conference last September was selling sets of 
>tong retaining clips.  As a devout gadgeteer, I purchased a set.  When 
>I finally got around to trying them out, I was surprised how well they 
>work.  The clips are quick to attach/detach to/from the reins, and hold 
>tight......
 
>David C. Hufford
>
I also bought a set to try out. I've had the good fortune to have some kids
interested in blacksmithing (my own and some friends) and have found the
clips to be a big help in holding onto the work in progress.

Mark Thomas
 

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 02:20:31 1996
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From: dhoopes@gvi.net (David Hoopes)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Power Hammer Workshop
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>Is anyone familiar with Sid Suedmeier's power hammer workshop, which is coming 
>up Mar 22-24 in Nebraska City, NE???
>
>I don't own a power hammer yet but plan to buy one this year. In his workshop, 
>they cover evaluation (for purchase), inspection, teardown, repair, etc. of a 
>Little Giant 25lb old style hamer and some of the above for a new style LG. 
>The fee is $85.
>
>Have you attended his workshop? How did you like it?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff Reiter
>Frankfort, IL
>

I went last year.  It is a really great class.  We completly rebuilt an 
style-hammer during the class.

And, it was worth the trip just to see the collection of hammers that Sid has.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Hoopes
dhoopes@gvi.net
Lenexa, Kansas (Near Kansas City, Mo)

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 03:06:19 1996
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Date: 25 Jan 96 21:52:05 EST
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From: "John W. Pollins III" <74040.1506@compuserve.com>
To: ABANA Forum <THEFORGE@wugate.wustl.edu>,
        "INTERNET:frnklyn@mcs.com" <frnklyn@mcs.com>
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
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I don't know or care about the ware but I had a ?>+*&! of a time keeping the
dies from working lose out of the V grove key ways hitting them off center. I
think I solved it by building screw down plates top & bottom a la Hoffman's
design on my 50# Giant.
The little testing I was able to do before winter closed me down sugests that I
won't be using the half-rounds any more any way because it's so easy to drop a
change into the 1" square hardy hole in the bottom plate. In fact it's so easy
and quick that the problem is going to be resisting the temptation to change the
bottom die in the middle of a heat with the thing running. I don't know how much
you trust your home made brake but I know enough to recognize the need for a new
hobby that only requires one hand when I see one. 

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 03:25:38 1996
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From: wils@texas.net (Wil Smith)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Sources for Coke
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Does anyone know where to get coke in Texas?  (Austin...Central Tx)

Wil Smith


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 12:05:36 1996
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From: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Band Saw Blades
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Does anyone know of a source of metal-cutting band saw blade in bulk 
rolls?  I understand it's cheaper to purchase the blade in rolls and 
cut/brase blades to fit your saw.  Any info as to sources is 
appreciated.

David C. Hufford

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 12:20:19 1996
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From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <williams@color.wff.nasa.gov>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Tong Retainers
In-Reply-To: methomas@ssi.parlorcity.com (Linda Thomas)
        "Re: Tong Retainers" (Jan 25,  7:04pm)
References: <199601260004.TAA21780@ssi.parlorcity.com>
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On Jan 25,  7:04pm, Linda Thomas wrote:
> Subject: Re: Tong Retainers
> >A fellow at the Quad State conference last September was selling sets of
> >tong retaining clips.  As a devout gadgeteer, I purchased a set.  When
> >I finally got around to trying them out, I was surprised how well they
> >work.  The clips are quick to attach/detach to/from the reins, and hold
> >tight......
>
> >David C. Hufford
> >
> I also bought a set to try out. I've had the good fortune to have some kids
> interested in blacksmithing (my own and some friends) and have found the
> clips to be a big help in holding onto the work in progress.
>
> Mark Thomas
>
>-- End of excerpt from Linda Thomas

I, too, bought a set. I've not used tong rings before and thought to try these
out before forming an opinion. I find them to be quite handy, especially on
those tongs where the reins have some spring to them. I think the person
selling them will be at the ABANA conference at Alfred.



-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams

Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744

williams@color.wff.nasa.gov

Self-confidence is walking barefoot through a cowpasture at midnight on a moonless night.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 12:44:28 1996
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From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <williams@color.wff.nasa.gov>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades
In-Reply-To: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
        "Band Saw Blades" (Jan 26,  7:00am)
References: <01I0GGUDMRV6004T2A@ACS.EKU.EDU>
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On Jan 26,  7:00am, David C. Hufford wrote:
> Subject: Band Saw Blades
> Does anyone know of a source of metal-cutting band saw blade in bulk
> rolls?  I understand it's cheaper to purchase the blade in rolls and
> cut/brase blades to fit your saw.  Any info as to sources is
> appreciated.
>
> David C. Hufford
>-- End of excerpt from David C. Hufford

I'm looking at an ENCO sale brochure that has 100' coils of Bi-Metal bandsaw
blades. The cost is between $1.6 and $2.2 per foot. Enco may be contacted at
1-800-873-3626. I'm sure that MCS, McMaster-Carr and Wholesale Tool have 100'
or longer coils of bandsaw coil stock. You may contact WT at 1-800-521-3420.
For completeness, MSC may be contacted at 1-800-645-7270 and McMaster-Carr at
908-329-3200.



-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams

Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744

williams@color.wff.nasa.gov

Self-confidence is walking barefoot through a cowpasture at midnight on a moonless night.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 14:43:06 1996
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From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>
To: theforge <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades
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Enco Manufacturing Company (800) 873-3626

Matt.

============original message=================
Date: 01/26/96 07:00:04 AM
Subject: Band Saw Blades

Does anyone know of a source of metal-cutting band saw blade in bulk 
rolls?  I understand it's cheaper to purchase the blade in rolls and 
cut/brase blades to fit your saw.  Any info as to sources is 
appreciated.

David C. Hufford

 


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 17:52:39 1996
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From: "D. M. Dickie" <mdickie@awinc.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: HAMMER DIES AGAIN
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Thanks again to everyone out there who responded to my earlier posting
regarding flat dies for a 25# Little Giant.  The general consensus seems to
be (and I agree) that the hammer is too small to make much use of flat dies
and special tooling.  I had thought this from the beginning, but wanted the
opinions of those with more experience.  However, there have been a couple
of suggestions that I might investigate further; one being having a local
machine shop make some dies. 

This brings up another question - what would be a suitable steel for the
manufacture of power hammer dies?  Clifton Ralph doesn't mention (that I
recall) what steel he uses for forging hammer dies.  For a small hammer
perhaps something like a truck axle or a chunk from a fork-lift would have
enough mass to do the job.  What about heat treating?
If they were just macnined to shape rather than heated and forged, I would
assume they would not need any heat treatment?

Any of your thoughts on this would be of interest.

Thanks again, in advance!

D. M. (Mike) Dickie
Flatlander Forge

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 18:17:50 1996
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Subject: Re: Kinyon's Hammer
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Maurice Ellis has built several hammers starting with Nol's plans but adding
his own features. I am sure he would love to visit about it and may even have
one or two for sale. Last time I talked to him he had a 70 pound hammer, 180
blows per minute for sale. It requires a 5hp 2 stage compressor. He also had
a 25 pounder that will run on a 3 hp, 20 gallon compressor. Maurice is
at(573-) 766-5346.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 18:18:02 1996
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Subject: Columbian Anvils
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Just picked up a new anvil at a flea market and I wonder if anyone else has
used this brand before -- I believe it is a Columbia or Columbian anvil. The
only mark is a triangle with a C in it. It appears to be a cast anvil but has
a nice ring to it so I expect it must be cast steel.

All my other anvils are forged -- will a cast anvil hold up well or should I
put this one on my tailgate and sell it?

It's in nice shape save for the typical edge damage, weighs 152 pounds.
--Jim McCarty

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 18:18:38 1996
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Jon--Your url on the CAB Web Site came through with some garble in it. Could
you please post it again? Here's what I got:
http://www.quiknet.com/~ronin/CBA/cba.html
Thanks, Jim McCarty
Jimfromlc@aol.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 18:19:16 1996
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From: "Szucs" <osan@mtnet1.mt.att.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades
In-Reply-To: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
        "Band Saw Blades" (Jan 26,  7:00am)
References: <01I0GGUDMRV6004T2A@ACS.EKU.EDU>
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On Jan 26,  7:00am, David C. Hufford wrote:
> Does anyone know of a source of metal-cutting band saw blade in bulk
> rolls?  I understand it's cheaper to purchase the blade in rolls and
> cut/brase blades to fit your saw.  Any info as to sources is
> appreciated.

	Thisi s true.  Try MSC.  Don't have the # handy at the moment.

	And just to be clear, you don't braze the blades together, you
	butt weld them.  A brazed joint would not hold up and therefore
	constitutes a significant safety hazard.  If you've ever had a
	blade break on you or even seen it happen to someone else you will
	know precisely what I mean.

	-Andy V.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 18:50:03 1996
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From: Arden Street <streetar@martin.luther.edu>
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Subject: Power Hammer Die Steel
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A couple of people I know who have made dies for there power hammers have 
used either 4150 or 4350 steel and milled the dies to the desired shape.
They also heat treated them but I don't know what steps they used or what
rockwell they were trying to achieve.  I could call and ask if you would
like to know more about this.

Brian Street
Creamery Hill Forge

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 19:03:12 1996
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From: safparks@teleport.com (Raymond Coon)
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Subject: Re: HAMMER DIES AGAIN
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>This brings up another question - what would be a suitable steel for the
>manufacture of power hammer dies?  
>
>D. M. (Mike) Dickie
>Flatlander Forge
>
I'm sure no expert but it seems that one of the S series steels might be
appropriate.  These are high shock resistance type steels such as those used
for jack-hammer bits, etc.  Just my guess.

Raymond Coon
Portland, OR

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 19:10:18 1996
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Have no experience with their anvils, but do have a Columbia post vise 
and it's first rate.

David C. Hufford

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 19:35:29 1996
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From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>
To: theforge <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: Columbian Anvils
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My friend has a 250# Columbian and he seems to like it.  I bought
a 140# one at the Quad-state roundup in October and it works
quite well for me.

-Matt
+++++++++++++++++Original text++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: 01/26/96 01:08:20 PM
Subject: Columbian Anvils

Just picked up a new anvil at a flea market and I wonder if anyone else has
used this brand before -- I believe it is a Columbia or Columbian anvil. The
only mark is a triangle with a C in it. It appears to be a cast anvil but has
a nice ring to it so I expect it must be cast steel.

All my other anvils are forged -- will a cast anvil hold up well or should I
put this one on my tailgate and sell it?

It's in nice shape save for the typical edge damage, weighs 152 pounds.
--Jim McCarty
 


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 19:50:55 1996
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Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 14:32:32 -0500
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From: GDixon@gate.ioa.com (George Dixon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: HAMMER DIES AGAIN and AGAIN and.......
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Two thoughts,

There are many dies that have specialized uses that are not centered.  Half
and half dies do convey an uneven force to the ram. However, judging from
the hammers I've seen and run I do not think that the wear is such an issue
compared to the functional advantage of that type of die.

On smaller hammers, 25 pound mechanical types, it is very easy to fabricate
the dies.  I have fullering and drawing dies on a 25lb that are fabricated.
The "dove-tail" is made of a solid bar of mild steel belt sanded to fit
the dovetail shape with a forged taper wedge.  On top of the mild steel I
welded a 1" round piece of S1 as long as the die. The round-to-square
interface makes a perfect welding set-up.  (I belt sanded the S1 drawing
dies down some to make the top more eliptical. The fullering set I left
round and they work well for prepping stock for die forging.) Then I heat
treated the whole thing like I do S1 chisels, bright orange into brine, no
tempering.  The top die is made the same way, they have held up for four
years without a problem.

I have also fabricated the dovetails for my 50 and 100 lb hammers for
special plates and tooling, it's much quicker than forging, especially for
short run applications.     These dovetails  are built up out of solid bar
and flat stock to achieve the shape rather than belt sanding since they are
so much larger.
                    George Dixon


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 20:56:45 1996
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Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:42:10 -0500
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From: sjoslyn@future.dreamscape.com (Steve Joslyn)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Anvil Ring:  feature stories
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>To: George Dixon
>From: sjoslyn@future.dreamscape.com (Steve Joslyn)
>Subject: Anvil Ring:  feature stories
>
>Dear George,
>
>   I was recently paging through old ring issues and I had a thought. Would'nt it be interesting to feature a different shop in each issue of the Ring. There is enough working shops across the country and a lot could be learned. Along with the interview could be regional highlights and a focus on the local chapter. I think it would very interesting to see how other shops are layed out, the unique tools and machinery each smith has developed to "make life easier". It would be great to put a place and face on some of our membership. If the Ring doesn't have a reporter who would travel, then the regional chapter could choose a shop and create an artical.
   Does anyone else have additional ideas?
Steve Joslyn
Joslyn Studios Fine Metalwork Inc.
1841 LeMoyne Ave
Syracuse, NY 13208
(315) 454-3855
sjoslyn@future.dreamscape.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 21:11:01 1996
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From: safparks@teleport.com (Raymond Coon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Anvil Ring:  feature stories
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>>To: George Dixon
>>From: sjoslyn@future.dreamscape.com (Steve Joslyn)
>>Subject: Anvil Ring:  feature stories
>>
>>Dear George,
>>
>>   I was recently paging through old ring issues and I had a thought.
Would'nt it be interesting to feature a different shop in each issue of the
Ring. There is enough working shops across the country and a lot could be
learned. Along with the interview could be regional highlights and a focus
on the local chapter. I think it would very interesting to see how other
shops are layed out, the unique tools and machinery each smith has developed
to "make life easier". It would be great to put a place and face on some of
our membership. If the Ring doesn't have a reporter who would travel, then
the regional chapter could choose a shop and create an artical.
>   Does anyone else have additional ideas?
>Steve Joslyn
>Joslyn Studios Fine Metalwork Inc.
>1841 LeMoyne Ave
>Syracuse, NY 13208
>(315) 454-3855
>sjoslyn@future.dreamscape.com
>
One of the knife magazines (Blade or Knife something) has a regular section
called "Shop Tour" where they feature just what you are talking about, only
for knifemakers.  It's _very_ interesting and informative.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 21:41:36 1996
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From: JHrisoulas@aol.com
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Subject: Re: HAMMER DIES AGAIN
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Hammer dies: Try D-2, that's what that steel was designed for...In fact the
"D" in D-2 means Die Steel..

DrH

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 21:44:58 1996
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From: Steve Smith <steve@cc.com>
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Subject: Re: Anvil Ring:  feature stories
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Shop tours would be very interesting. What would also be neat would be
to feature whatever the shop denizens considered to be interesting or
innovative tooling they were using, whether they originated it or not.
One picture...

You could probably get an interesting column by asking people for
pictures of tooling that was really bizaare, whether it worked or not.
Maybe a little competition along this line would be amusing. How Rube
Goldberg of a holddown can YOU dream up?

--
Steve Smith
steve@cc.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 22:19:57 1996
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From: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades
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At the Quad State conference last September, Peter Sevin demonstated a 
method of brasing band saw blades.  He had a clamp jig to hold the ends 
together and brased a butt joint.  He had been doing this for some time 
and reported it worked great.  Perhaps someone who was at that 
demonstration (and has a better memory than I) could further explain 
Peter's technique.

David C. Hufford

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 22:31:04 1996
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On Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:23:20 -0600  Clay Spencer wrote:

>Hi Bruce,
>Glad to have you with us.
>If your newsletter includes some how to info on blacksmithing and not 
just
>info on AVI, The Alabama Forge Council would be like to exchange
>newsletters. Send to Clay Spencer, Editor, Route 2, Box 509-C, Murphy, 
NC
>28906-9260. Send me a mailing address and I'll send you a copy of
>Bituminous Bits and Bill Richardson will put you on our list.
>
>Clay Spencer
>Treadle Hammer Man
>Editor, The Bituminous Bits, the Journal of the Alabama Forge Council
>
>

I would like to second that motion, and as the editor of the UMBA 
Journal, another ABANA Chapter publication,  I would also be interested 
in a newsletter exchange if you publication discusses blacksmithing in 
general and not just AVI.  My address is:

		Franklyn D. Garland
		4223 Rose Ave.
		Lyons, IL 60534



-----------------------------------------------------
Name: Franklyn D. Garland        A Hobby Is Hard work
E-mail: frnklyn@mcs.com          You wouldn't Do For
Date: 01/26/96                     A Living.
Time: 16:09:42


http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
-----------------------------------------------------

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Jan 26 22:53:28 1996
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From: jflodin@polarnet.com (Jan Flodin)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: help please
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Could somebody who knows tell me how to "signoff THEFORGE"?  The person who
was interested is no longer at this computer and we lost the internet
address for doing this.
Thanks very much (reply to jflodin@mail.polarnet.fnsb.ak.us)


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 27 00:14:09 1996
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From: GDixon@gate.ioa.com (George Dixon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Anvil Ring:  feature stories
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The idea of featuring a shop each issue is a good one.  The difficulty is
getting the article written, photos taken and the whole thing submitted.
If someone were to take this on, even just once to start the ball rolling,
then I believe it would be printed.

The issue of content, as evidenced by e-mails here and letters to the
"Ring" is a dicey one, and I imagine that it will always be that way.  But
the editors of either publication welcome good submissions and anything
that can generate more interesting content would be welcome.
George Dixon


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 27 04:20:54 1996
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From: rdcarlsen@familytown.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades
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Ellis Mfg. Co., Inc  at 107 W. Railroad St, Verona, WI 53593-0219 Phone
800.383.5547  has a wide variety of band saw blades in specific lengths
and tooth.  They also have bulk blades however, their  prices are
sufficiently reasonable that I buy the length for my saw.  They have
both carbon back and bi-metal.  I've found that since my shop is not a
high production shop that the straight carbon blades are a better value.
They also manufacture band saws.  I purchased one a few years back and
am convinced that this is one of the more valuabe tools in my smithy. 
They also have heavy duty drill presses (I'm saving up for one).  Ellis
is high quality and a fair price and they ship quickly.
Roger Carlsen
Ephraim Forge, Inc.
Frankfort, IL
rdcarlsen@faimlytown.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 27 05:09:43 1996
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At 01:08 PM 1/26/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Jon--Your url on the CAB Web Site came through with some garble in it. Could
>you please post it again? Here's what I got:
>http://www.quiknet.com/~ronin/CBA/cba.html
>Thanks, Jim McCarty
>Jimfromlc@aol.com

Jim,

That looks like the right URL.

http://www.quiknet.com/~ronin/CBA/cba.html

If that URL doesn't work let me know and I'll try to figure out what's wrong.

thanks, Jon.






>
>
>

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 27 14:13:10 1996
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From: KCVY30A@prodigy.com (MR WILLIAM A HOCHELLA)
To: JHrisoulas@aol.com, theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: HAMMER DIES AGAIN
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To All,
WARNING! D-2 is a die steel BUT it is a cold work die steel that is 
designed to punch or shear relative thin strip. Yes, it is extemely 
wear resistent but not very hard, all things considered. It is high 
chrome and high carbon. It is also very hard to machine, grind, etc. 
It is very fussy about heat treatment and it is EXPENSIVE! D-2 is not 
known for its impact resistance. The S-series may be overkill. The 
4340 / 4150 class of low alloy steels are a lot more forgiving, less 
expensive, easier to heat treat and are a lot tougher if tempered 
properly. "Tool" when added to steel does not make it better for all 
applications.

Reagrds,

Bill Hochella

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 27 14:21:36 1996
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From: KCVY30A@prodigy.com (MR WILLIAM A HOCHELLA)
To: GDixon@gate.ioa.com, theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Anvil Ring:  feature stories
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To All,
In my other life, i.e., real job, I am responsible for my company's 
technology in the field. Obviously, part of that is documentation of 
new and existing products. I have at least three people who consider 
me thier employee and each of them has a laundry list of papers, 
articles and data sheets for me to write. The really amazing part is 
that half of what needs to be written is of a commercial nature. When 
I stand up and say that I'll match them paper for paper, the  laundry 
list disapears. The whole point is: "let he who has a good idea, put 
it on paper as an example for us all."

Bill Hochella

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 27 16:05:41 1996
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From: clay@grove.net (Clay Spencer)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
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At 4:00 PM 1/25/96, frnklyn@mcs.com wrote:
>I have often wondered about "half and half dies."  Do they cause excess
>wear on the ways of the power hammer by applying force off-center?  I
>have considered making a set several times but have not been able to get
>the answer to this question.  My #50 Mayer was built in 1918 and I think
>replacement ways would be a bit tough to come-by.

Yes, you will get more wear on the ways anytime you do not use the center
of the dies.
How much more? depends on distance from center of dies and force of blows.
Probably the most critical item in wear and breaking of side guides is the
clearance between the guides and ram. Large amount of clearance is
responsible for breaking guides on Little Giant new style hammers. Keep the
guides tight with just enough clearance for easy movement.
If you have removeable guides, you can machine new guides. If they are
built into the hammer frame, you probably will have to braze or weld.
Clay


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Jan 27 16:43:23 1996
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From: gschade@peterson.polaristel.net
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: flat hammer dies
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To All,
      Flat dies, with matching edges are available from Bob Bergman at The
Postville Blacksmith Shop. Bobs phone is 608.527.2494. He makes the dies
out of S7 or 4340. The price is $200 for the 25lb. size.
     I talked wih Bob this morning on the phone and told him about the
online dialog about the usefulness of these dies on a 25lb hammer. He feels
that the matching edges alone are an advantage and that tooling can be made
to fit the space available.
     If you are interested and in the area Bob will be hosting a workshop
featuring Rob Gunter on Saturday, March 3.
     Bob has a 25lb hammer and several larger hammers set up with these
dies that will be available for a test run.
     I also told Bob a litle about this forum. I feel that this IS the new
Anvils Ring or at least a SIG. Thanks to the people making it possible.
Spread the word and get EVERYBODY online.
                                                 Robert Schade


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Jan 25 19:05:54 1996
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From: DAN_NIBBELINK@HP-Loveland-om10.om.hp.com
To: DNietfeld@aol.com, owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Power Hammer Workshop
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     I also attended a workshop and was pleased with the knowledged gained. 
     There was about ten in my class. Two benefits at the top of my list: I 
     got over my "fear" of pouring babbit bearings. I got to see many power 
     hammers of many different styles.
     
     Dan Nibbelink
     RedHawk Forge


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Power Hammer Workshop

I attended his workshop and was very satisfied.  I wish I would have attended 
before I purchased my Little Giant.  Nebraska City is a quaint town with good 
facilities.  Sid has many power hammers and parts which are interesting in 
themselves.  In the class you participate in taking apart a power hammer (a 
25# in my class), rebuilding whatever is necessary, putting it all  back 
togeather, and practicing with it and with other power hammers of different 
weights and styles.  Other various models/styles of hammers are also covered 
in the training.  There were about 30 people in attendance which Sid said was 
a few more than he likes,  but I thought all went well and enjoyed visiting 
with those in attendance.  There were people there from as far away as 
California.  If you don't know what to look for in a power hammer before you 
buy one this class could save you lots of money and grief.
     
Dick Nietfeld
Grand Island, NE    

From ANVILBROS@aol.com  Sat Jan 27 20:00:52 1996
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Hello; My name is Gus Dominguez I am one of The Anvil Bros. ,we are me member
of  ABANA, N.E B.and Connecticut Blacksmith Guild I will be in Fla in Feb. in
theOrlando and Sarasota area I would like to drop off copys of The
Blacksmiths' Bellows the CBG newsletter and talk to Fla blacksmith can you
help me with some info i.e. address, Telphone# what ever Thank you Gus

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 29 02:53:30 1996
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From: Tom Vincent <lpje223@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: JHrisoulas@aol.com, theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: HAMMER DIES AGAIN
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Re: D Series. If you'd like to experiment with it, e get ours free from 
the "local" Caterpillar repair shop. The pins that repair treads are D 
series, and the shop is happy to let us acquire a few now and again. For 
some uses, it is excellent, but yes, tough to work.

On Sat, 27 Jan 1996, MR WILLIAM A HOCHELLA wrote:

> To All,
> WARNING! D-2 is a die steel BUT it is a cold work die steel that is 
> designed to punch or shear relative thin strip. Yes, it is extemely 
> wear resistent but not very hard, all things considered. It is high 
> chrome and high carbon. It is also very hard to machine, grind, etc. 
> It is very fussy about heat treatment and it is EXPENSIVE! D-2 is not 
> known for its impact resistance. The S-series may be overkill. The 
> 4340 / 4150 class of low alloy steels are a lot more forgiving, less 
> expensive, easier to heat treat and are a lot tougher if tempered 
> properly. "Tool" when added to steel does not make it better for all 
> applications.
> 
> Reagrds,
> 
> Bill Hochella
> 
> 

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 29 03:07:55 1996
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From: Tom Vincent <lpje223@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
In-Reply-To: <199601271851.AA29145@corn.cso.niu.edu>
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Good question. There is much to know about forging stainless and we 
should all be brought up to speed. I bet Bill will be able to help with 
metallurgical aspects. 1) Get a magnet. 300 series is not heat treatable, 
400 is. Heat your piece, cool it and see if its magnetic. If its not, you 
can bend it, but it won't do much. You'll need a special welding flux to 
weld it-H-7 works well. Be careful, it'll go to bright orange/yellow a 
couple of times and then vanish into the fire. Its murder to draw out, it 
likes to split unless you're very careful. To harden the 400, bring it to 
about 1700? Salmon red and quench. I was unknowingly working some at a 
demo, and quenched a piece at that temp for a customer. He allowed as how 
it was just a hair too long and could I trim it? I said sure, put it in 
the vise and tore every tooth off a brand-new hacksaw blade. If you want 
to do the silverware, go to Goodwill and get you some 10 cent implements 
and work away. They come out great for no work at all. I tell all my 
customers that and they usually let me make them something nice instead.

On Sat, 27 Jan 1996, chris Hubbard wrote:

> I am rather new at the forge so I thought you "experts" out there might be
> able to answer a question.  Is it possible to forge stainless steel and if
> so where can you get it?  We have all seen the "forged" stainless steel
> flatware in the houseware catalogues.  Is this stuff real (i.e. forged) and
> if so how tough would it be for me to do the same thing?  Chris Hubbard
> 
> 

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 29 12:07:22 1996
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:57:47 -0500 (EST)
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From: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Another riddle
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Stumbled across another 19th century riddle which may be of interest to 
ye blacksmiths:

I saw maidens like dust.
Rocks were their beds.
They were black and swarthy in the sunshine,
But the darker it grew, the fairer they appeared.

I'll post the answer later.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 29 13:10:43 1996
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From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <williams@color.wff.nasa.gov>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Fly press
In-Reply-To: "D. M. Dickie" <mdickie@awinc.com>
        "Fly press" (Jan 28,  8:26am)
References: <m0tgZvy-001NHEC@awinc.com>
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On Jan 28,  8:26am, D. M. Dickie wrote:
> Subject: Fly press
> Hi Again!
>
> Am really enjoying the discussion on the list, and have learned some things.
> This is a great way for smiths to get together, though it would be nice to
> be able to see some pictures.  It would be easier to clarify one's thoughts
> sometimes by seeing a diagram.  No doubt that will come soon enough, unless
> it's already here, and as usual, I just don't know about it!
>
> About 3 or 4 yrs. ago, I had the priveledge of visiting Bill Callaway's shop
> in Phoenix where besides seeing some very fine blacksmithing and
> fabricating, I got my first look at a fly press.  I have often thought since
> that it would be a fun thing to have, but I know I wouldn't be able to find
> one anywhere around here, or be able to afford it if I did.  It seems that
> most 'smiths prefer the treadle hammer for veining and stamping, but I
> wonder if anyone has any thoughts or perhaps even plans for a home built fly
> press?  I have only been close to one once, but it seems to me that a small
> scale version shouldn't be all that hard to do.  Any thoughts out there?
>
> D. M. (Mike) Dickie
> Flatlander Forge
>-- End of excerpt from D. M. Dickie

I'm not sure where you are located but Jim Bomba had several fly presses for
sale. He is located in North East, MD  Red Pepper Forge, b ut I'm at work and
don't have a phone number.



-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams

Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744

williams@color.wff.nasa.gov

Self-confidence is walking barefoot through a cowpasture at midnight on a moonless night.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 29 13:10:50 1996
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:21:01 -0500
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From: William_Fiorini@post.uwlax.edu (Bill Fiorini)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: steel for hot chasing and chiseling
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      I remember Robb Gunter using a type of tool steel for his hot chisel
or chasing work, maybe an S series.  Does anyone know the exact steel?

thanks,
from kirsten writing on bill's account


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 29 15:12:52 1996
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From: freemanb@pt.Cyanamid.COM
To: pgengle@aol.com, drm@anchor.ho.att.com, theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Attention: ABANA Members in or near New Jersey
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     To all ABANA members in or near New Jersey:
     
     Plans are underway to form a New Jersey Chapter of ABANA.  
     Accordingly, we'd like to invite any ABANA members in the area to 
     become "charter" members.  (There'll be no special privileges, except 
     the opportunity to get your say in early.)  
     
     For the present, the meeting place will be at or near Allaire State 
     Park, Wall Twp., Monmouth Co., NJ.  (This location is chosen because 
     those of us who are starting this organization are all volunteers at 
     Historic Allaire Village.  No meetings have yet been organized.  
     
     We are especially interested in persons who would wish to become 
     actively involved in organizing the chapter.  However, please respond 
     if you expect you'd want to be included in our membership, even if you 
     know you don't want to do any organizing. (I am constitutionally 
     opposed to twisting arms -- unhappy volunteers are worse than no 
     volunteers at all.)  The higher the count of ABANA members to start 
     with, the better we'll like it.  
     
     And if you're not an ABANA member but are nonetheless interested, feel 
     free to respond as well.
     
     Please send your expressions of interest or your questions to me.  I 
     will try to answer inquiries promptly.  
     
     Bruce Freeman

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 29 15:22:52 1996
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From: "Szucs" <osan@mtnet1.mt.att.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
In-Reply-To: clay@grove.net (Clay Spencer)
        "Re: Hammer Dies" (Jan 27, 11:07am)
References: <v0151010bad2e121feae7@[205.244.12.206]>
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 At 4:00 PM 1/25/96, frnklyn@mcs.com wrote:
 >I have often wondered about "half and half dies."  Do they cause excess
 >wear on the ways of the power hammer by applying force off-center?  I
 >have considered making a set several times but have not been able to get
 >the answer to this question.  My #50 Mayer was built in 1918 and I think
 >replacement ways would be a bit tough to come-by.

	Let me begin by saying that I don't have a power hammer so I may be
	talking crap here.  I base this on my experience as a machinist.

	Would it be practical to use a fairly thick plate to distribute
	the load more evenly across the ways?  How about 1" to 6/4
	thick, maybe 3/4 the length of the bedway.  Tope surface is
	parallel the lengthe of the die in question and tapers down
	as you move outwards.

	In addition to this might you not scrape the bottom so that you
	get about 0.001" concavity over the middle 3/4 (more maybe?) of
	plates bottom surface so that when you tighten it down you
	achieve a very positive contact of the outermost bounds of the
	plate with the ways?

                                Die sits here

                              ____________________
                          @                          @
                      @                                  @.
                  @                                          @
               @                                                 @
                         @
                                                        @
           |                                                          |
           |______/--------------------------------------------\______|

	The art is somewhat lacking but I think this gets the general
	idea across.

	Of course you will lose capacity between the dies.

	Just a thought.  Any comments?

	-Andy V.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 29 15:40:11 1996
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From: "Szucs" <osan@mtnet1.mt.att.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades
In-Reply-To: jbbatson@ro.com (James Batson)
        "Re: Band Saw Blades" (Jan 28, 12:56pm)
References: <199601281906.NAA13744@sh1.ro.com>
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On Jan 28, 12:56pm, James Batson wrote:
>
> Andy, there is no problem, been doing it for years.  These kits are now
> being sold by mail order houses.

	OK. perhaps I'll try it some time.  Thanks.

	-Andy V.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 29 15:57:59 1996
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From: "Szucs" <osan@mtnet1.mt.att.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
In-Reply-To: Tom Vincent <lpje223@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
        "Re: Stainless steel forging" (Jan 28,  9:03pm)
References: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960128205452.11026D-100000@moe.cc.utexas.edu>
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On Jan 28,  9:03pm, Tom Vincent wrote:

> 1) Get a magnet. 300 series is not heat treatable,
> 400 is.

	This is not quite so.  Those 400 series alloys that are
	martensitic are heat treatable whereas the ferritic alloys
	are not.  The ferritic 400s include 405, 429, 430, 430F,
	430F(Se), 434, 442, and 446.  They *can* be hardened by
	cold working as can the austenitic steels (300 series) but
	not by heat treating by any means known.

	-Andy V.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 29 20:18:53 1996
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From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/CSC.CSC@cscmail.csc.com>
To: theforge <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades
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I recall that he first beveled the ends (like scarfing) with a
grinder, clamped the ends into his jig, and then brazed them.
I would think that perhaps some follow up grinding to smooth
out the joint would also be in order.

-Matt Balent
===========Original text====================
Date: 01/26/96 05:05:40 PM
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades

At the Quad State conference last September, Peter Sevin demonstated a 
method of brasing band saw blades.  He had a clamp jig to hold the ends 
together and brased a butt joint.  He had been doing this for some time 
and reported it worked great.  Perhaps someone who was at that 
demonstration (and has a better memory than I) could further explain 
Peter's technique.

David C. Hufford

 


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Mon Jan 29 21:35:28 1996
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From: JimfromLC@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Hammer Dies
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Talked to Fred Caylor at the Jan. BAM meeting and he said he is giving
serious thought to holding a workshop on "Getting the most from your
25-pounder." It makes good sense to me since every power hammer workshop I
have ever seen was done on a 100-pounder or larger and a lot of what they
teach doesn't apply to the little guys (hammers).

If anybody sees Fred down the road lets encourage him!

Fred was busted up pretty bad in a car wreck and I am happy to report he is
on the mend. I sold him a Little Giant and you could see that old glint in
his eye as we loaded it on his truck. Guess he's ready for another project.
--Jim McCarty

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 30 00:14:04 1996
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From: "D. M. Dickie" <mdickie@awinc.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Bandsaw blades
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A friend of mine, and a fine blacksmith, Rick Dixon of Dixon Forge in
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan routinely repairs broken bandsaw blades with
success, using a jig milled from a block of aluminum.  The ends are beveled,
placed in the jig for proper alignment, coated with a good Silver Solder
flux, and soldered together with "hard" silver solder.  

D. M. Dickie
Flatlander Forge

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 30 12:15:13 1996
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From: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: The Swab
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Among the implements for working a coal forge fire (poker, shovel, & 
rake) mentioned in some old British sources, is a brush-like implement 
called a `swab'.  However, I've not seen its function explained.  My 
impession was it might be used to apply water to the coal around the 
fire; perhaps a substitute for the sprinkle can.  Is this correct?  If 
not, what is purpose of the swab?

David C. Hufford

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 30 14:19:31 1996
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From: "Page Thomas" <pthomas@post.cis.smu.edu>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu, theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: The Swab
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According to  the Oxford Dictionary, V. 18, p. 333 "Swab" can mean a soft 
brush for wetting the mould in founding.  A quote in 1854: "The archbishop 
with a mop or swab twirling water on all his dignitaries"

"Swab" then could mean, a mop used in twirling water over the coals.  

Page A. Thomas

pthomas@post.smu.edu

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Haven't rec'd. any mail in several days from theforge.  Are we having
problems again or is everyone resting from Superbowl parties?
Michael/Kilo-Sierra Forge

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 30 15:13:38 1996
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 08:52:59 PST
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From: frnklyn@mcs.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: RE: steel for hot chasing and chiseling 
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On Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:21:01 -0500  Bill Fiorini wrote:
>      I remember Robb Gunter using a type of tool steel for his hot 
chisel
>or chasing work, maybe an S series.  Does anyone know the exact steel?
>
>thanks,
>from kirsten writing on bill's account
>
>

Robb is VERY fond of the Atha Pneu S-1 steel.  The stuff is very pricy 
but it works well.  It is available from Crucible Steels Inc. (I believe)

-----------------------------------------------------
Name: Franklyn D. Garland        A Hobby Is Hard work
E-mail: frnklyn@mcs.com          You wouldn't Do For
Date: 01/30/96                     A Living.
Time: 08:52:59


http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
-----------------------------------------------------

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 30 15:13:58 1996
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From: frnklyn@mcs.com
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Subject: Fly Presses
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In the UMBA Journal, posted at ABANA's web site, are listings of 
suppliers for fly presses.  Check out the 'Classified Adds' and I think 
you will find the contact information you are looking for.

-----------------------------------------------------
Name: Franklyn D. Garland        A Hobby Is Hard work
E-mail: frnklyn@mcs.com          You wouldn't Do For
Date: 01/30/96                     A Living.
Time: 08:56:08


http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
-----------------------------------------------------

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 30 18:44:23 1996
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From: JimfromLC@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Another riddle
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Hey David, I'll take a stab at this one: Is it coal??
--Jim McCarty (If so I will take the 5-pound clinker. Never seen one that
big!)

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 30 18:45:08 1996
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When I was in high school we had a machine that welded band saw blades. It
had a pair of clamps and you pused a lever and when you released it the blade
was done. Believe it used silver solder. Don't know what it was called but I
sure wish I had one. Quite often when a blade breaks it can be rewelded and
is still long enough to use.
--Jim McCarty

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 30 20:55:38 1996
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From: tomboud@ATCON.COM (Thomas Boudreau)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: The Swab
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   You're right David! It would be used to apply water to coals, I use it in
the shop where I  work. Since I animate 18th century smithing, a tin can
looks out of place, so would band saws, little giants, presses....what
happened to authenticity!!!
   I have a question on anvils?  We have one in the shop with a short horn
in the front  of it, like a stump! Possibly an armour's anvil? It has a
unique shape and weights approx 350#. It dates back 17th, century, or
earlier. Anybody know its use?

  TOM: Fr. Nova Scotia, Canada  (YES,  we're still a Country!!)
  
   
  

>Among the implements for working a coal forge fire (poker, shovel, & 
>rake) mentioned in some old British sources, is a brush-like implement 
>called a `swab'.  However, I've not seen its function explained.  My 
>impession was it might be used to apply water to the coal around the 
>fire; perhaps a substitute for the sprinkle can.  Is this correct?  If 
>not, what is purpose of the swab?
>
>David C. Hufford
>
>
>

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Tue Jan 30 22:33:31 1996
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From: "Charles Orlando" <orlandoc@alfredtech.edu>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Viva Las Vegas
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Look up Scotty's Castle on the map.  It is north of Las Vegas in 
California, near Beatty, NV.  Lots of nice traditional ironwork, 
grills, hardware, lighting etc.  Out of the way by worth the trip.
Get there early if you wish to take pictures.    I see there is 
another posting with the same message.  I have been there.  Try 
it, you'll like it.
Charley Orlando

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 01:19:08 1996
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From: IronmanRAS@aol.com
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---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    wall calendar
Date:    96-01-28 14:38:57 EST
From:    IronmanRAS
To:      theforge@wugate.wustl.edu

One of our members sent this to me for publication in our chapter newsletter
and I throught that maybe she would recieve some input from people online.
Jody is not oneline so please send all submissions to her.  Thank you!

Send me your Best Shot/
Give me your best tip

I am putting together a 1997 wall calender which will feature photos and shop
tips and techniques from artist-blacksmiths around the country.  Pull out
your best photo or write out a simple tip or technique and send it in.

*Contributors will not be comprensated, but those who send in photos which
are selected will receive a free calandar.
*Photos must be black and white professional-quality, preferably no smaller
than 5" x 7"
*Tips and techniques nust be legible and clearly understood without drawings
or sketches.  Please be concise.
*Photos and tips will be returned if a self-addressed, postage-paid envelope
is included.
* The selection process will be based on the quality of the photo and its
suitability for the layout.  A variety of items will be selected from as many
geographic areas as possible.  As many photos as possible will be used.
* Please include the following information with your photo and tip, if
applicable
      -first and last name
      -address
      -phone number
      -fax, if available
      - item title and/or description
      -dimensions
      -comments, if desired
*Submissions must be received no later than May 15, 1996
*Send submissions to     Jody Best
                                    Hidden Hills Forge
                                    RD 1 Box 141
                                    Confluence, Pa  15424
*Calendars will be available for sale (price is still undetermined) by the
end of summer.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 02:20:15 1996
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From: choestoe@mindspring.com (W. M. Durrett)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Steel for chasing/embossing tooling
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My Crucible Steel rep this past summer informed me that they no longer make
S-1 grade.  It has been replaced in the market with other S grades,
especially S-7.  Of course the available grades cannot be properly heat
treated "casually', as S-1 could be.  I am using H-13 and S-7 for tooling
for my treadle hammer, works fine, but I am fortunate to have heat treatment
facilities.  One could make up a number of tools and have a commercial
facitily treat the batch for a reasonable price I would imagine
        Bill Durrett

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 03:04:27 1996
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From: dtbray@primenet.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Fly Presses
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Hi all:

One of the best sources of metal working equipment is the "Punch Press"(The
Metal Worker's Market Place)

Punch Press
Box 127
100 Chicago Ave.
Lost Springs, Kansas 66859

Fax 913-983-4398

Tom
>In the UMBA Journal, posted at ABANA's web site, are listings of
>suppliers for fly presses.  Check out the 'Classified Adds' and I think
>you will find the contact information you are looking for.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
>Name: Franklyn D. Garland        A Hobby Is Hard work
>E-mail: frnklyn@mcs.com          You wouldn't Do For
>Date: 01/30/96                     A Living.
>Time: 08:56:08
>
>
>http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
>-----------------------------------------------------


goodonya
dtbray@primenet.com


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 11:55:29 1996
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:51:02 -0500
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From: jbbatson@ro.com (James Batson)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
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Stainless steel that has been forged must be heat treated, passivated and
polished to maintain its stain resistance and strength.  See Carpenter
Steel Handbook on stainless steels.

I have found that it is not pratical to forge large pieces of stainless steel.

First, stainless steel takes longer to heat up.  Second, it has a narrow
forging temperature range and resists the hammer.  Thirdly, it cost to
much.  And lastly is to much trouble to clean up and polish.  Besides I
don't like shiny metal.

Shiny metal has no character.

There is one exception, forged stainless steel jewelry.  Jewelry is small
and can be polished without to much effort. Light and dark provides
contrast and interest.

Unless you are experienced, stay away from stainless steel in the forge.
However, if you are an armchair smith, you can discuss it all day.

Enjoy life

You will not enjoy life with stainless steel.

Jim



From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 12:41:28 1996
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From: Ralph Snel <ralph@astro.lu.se>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
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> Enjoy life
> 
> You will not enjoy life with stainless steel.
> 
Look at it from the bright side: do some SS, and learn to appreciate normal
steel a _lot_ more.
I kinda started that way, got myself a nice piece of steel, just perfect
for knife blades, according to the specs. It just happened to be highly
alloyed, and very hard to forge. When I got my hands on some plain iron/
carbon/nothing_else steel, I thought there was something wrong with this
steel...

Happy hammering,

Ralph Snel
ralph@astro.lu.se
Sweden

PS: besides, you can't burn a nice black linseed oil finish into a piece
of SS...

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 13:05:02 1996
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From: dhoopes@gvi.net (David Hoopes)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
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>Stainless steel that has been forged must be heat treated, passivated and
>polished to maintain its stain resistance and strength.  See Carpenter
>Steel Handbook on stainless steels.
>
What does passivated mean?  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Hoopes
dhoopes@gvi.net
Lenexa, Kansas (Near Kansas City, Mo)

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 14:21:03 1996
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From: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
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Subject: Re: Bandsaw blades
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With regard to joining band saw blades, or other applications for that 
matter, what constitutes a `hard' silver solder?  What is the percentage 
or ratio of silver in a `hard' solder?  

David Hufford

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 14:26:44 1996
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Jim:

You're close enough.  The answer is embers on the hearth (I believe the 
author was referring to a fireplace rather than a forge).  You're welcome 
to one of my many multi-pound clinkers.  Don't know why I get so many of 
these; guess I should clean out my firepot more often than once a month.

David

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 14:37:39 1996
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From: "Szucs" <osan@mtnet1.mt.att.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Steel for chasing/embossing tooling
In-Reply-To: choestoe@mindspring.com (W. M. Durrett)
        "Steel for chasing/embossing tooling" (Jan 30,  8:58pm)
References: <199601310215.VAA28245@borg.mindspring.com>
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On Jan 30,  8:58pm, W. M. Durrett wrote:
> My Crucible Steel rep this past summer informed me that they no longer make
> S-1 grade.  It has been replaced in the market with other S grades,
> especially S-7.

	Yep.  My Crucible guy pinched 152# of S-5 from one of his
	large customers for me.  I had to do some sweet talking.

	Haven't done anything with it yet.  It's all 3/4 round :(.

> Of course the available grades cannot be properly heat
> treated "casually', as S-1 could be.  I am using H-13 and S-7 for tooling
> for my treadle hammer, works fine, but I am fortunate to have heat treatment
> facilities.  One could make up a number of tools and have a commercial
> facitily treat the batch for a reasonable price I would imagine

	Never used S-1, but I hear S-7 is not easy to treat without
	significant distortion.  Is this your experience?  S-5 is not
	too bad.

	-Andy V.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 14:53:27 1996
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From: Peter Goering <gonzo@mailhost.nmt.edu>
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Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
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On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, David Hoopes wrote:

> >Stainless steel that has been forged must be heat treated, passivated and
> >polished to maintain its stain resistance and strength.  See Carpenter
> >Steel Handbook on stainless steels.
> >
> What does passivated mean?  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> David Hoopes
> dhoopes@gvi.net
> Lenexa, Kansas (Near Kansas City, Mo)
> 
> 
David,
Passivation means there is something "blocking" further reaction i.e., a 
film coating on the metal that stops oxidation. "The corrosion-resisting 
property is due to a thin, adherent, stable chromium oxide or nickel 
oxide film that effectively protects the steel against many corroding 
media." (Avner,1974)  Stainless steel will corrode rather dramatically 
when in contact with chlorine.

FWIW
Pete Goering
Flamingo Forge
Polvadera NM 87828

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 15:11:21 1996
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From: "Szucs" <osan@mtnet1.mt.att.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Bandsaw blades
In-Reply-To: "David C. Hufford" <CLSHUFFO@ACS.EKU.EDU>
        "Re: Bandsaw blades" (Jan 31,  9:15am)
References: <01I0NL4OVJP2007029@ACS.EKU.EDU>
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On Jan 31,  9:15am, David C. Hufford wrote:
> With regard to joining band saw blades, or other applications for that
> matter, what constitutes a `hard' silver solder?  What is the percentage
> or ratio of silver in a `hard' solder?
>
	"Hard" silver solder is 75% Ag and the rest alloying elements.
	"Medium" is sixty some % and "easy" is something like 56% (I'm
	getting this off the top of my pointy little head, I can look
	it up if you need more accurate numbers).  Here the terms
	hard medium and easy refer to the relative difficulty of use
	with sterling silver.  "Hard" is harder because the MP is pretty
	close to that of sterling, therefore you have to be careful with
	your torch lest ye slag the work, making for reduced stomach
	lining in some cases.  If you are soldering steel, you need not
	worry about this.

	BTW this is all referring to silver solders used by jewelers (it's
	all I usually use).  I not sure if the brazing rod you find in a
	welding or machine shop will prove significantly diffferent from
	this unless they use different alloying agents where strength is
	a factor and color is not.

	"Soft" silver solder, i.e. plumber's grade is about 4% silver and
	the rest tin.

	-Andy V.


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 15:11:27 1996
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From: "Szucs" <osan@mtnet1.mt.att.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
In-Reply-To: jbbatson@ro.com (James Batson)
        "Re: Stainless steel forging" (Jan 31,  6:51am)
References: <199601311150.FAA01059@sh1.ro.com>
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On Jan 31,  6:51am, James Batson wrote:

> Enjoy life
>
> You will not enjoy life with stainless steel.

	I guess I can pretty much agree with everything here.
	I once did a fair amount of work with 440C when I was
	raging through my monster switchblade project.  Turned
	out my skill was not sufficient to forge it well (blanks
	came out looking like... oh never mind) so I resorted to
	grinding.  Heat treatment also was a learning experience.
	440 needs a good long soak before it gets up to snuff. I
	also found that it's a major pain in the ass to work cold.
	Beat the hell out of a LOT of sawblades trying to cut
	blanks.  It's also very hard on files. Very frustrating.

	I have a lot of respect for the ability of those smiths
	that forge 440 well.  There's a smith down in Georgia or
	one of the Carolinas... Frank something...  About 10 years
	ago at the New York knife show he showed me a stainless
	steel damascus bowie blade he forged up.  Very impressive,
	particularly given that he said it wasn't a very difficult
	thing to accomplish.  My eye.

	-Andy V.


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 15:11:35 1996
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From: "Szucs" <osan@mtnet1.mt.att.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
In-Reply-To: dhoopes@gvi.net (David Hoopes)
        "Re: Stainless steel forging" (Jan 31,  6:56am)
References: <199601311256.GAA15607@gvi.net>
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On Jan 31,  6:56am, David Hoopes wrote:
> >Stainless steel that has been forged must be heat treated, passivated and
> >polished to maintain its stain resistance and strength.  See Carpenter
> >Steel Handbook on stainless steels.
> >
> What does passivated mean?
>
	It basically means removal of nickel and iron from the surface
	with nitric acid, exposing chromium, which will then form the
	*passive* oxide layer on the surface which will in turn lend
	the stainless quality to the steel.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 15:17:24 1996
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From: Peter Goering <gonzo@mailhost.nmt.edu>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
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I will be in Denver this weekend and would appreciate any suggestions for 
viewing ironwork, including work-in-place and smiths to visit.

Thanks in advance,

Pete Goering
Flamingo Forge
Polvadera NM 87828
(50 degrees @ 5:00 this morning - this desert life is Hell!)

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 15:28:42 1996
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From: freemanb@pt.Cyanamid.COM
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Subject: Re[2]: Stainless steel forging
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     Pete,
     
     That's an interesting contribution.  I always assumed that passivation 
     removed the iron from the surface layer of SS, leaving the Ni and Cr 
     behind.  Apparently there's more to it than that (tho maybe that is 
     going on as well).  
     
     For scientific instruments we passivate SS by soaking in 50% nitric 
     acid - an oxidizing acid.  Your explanation might account for the use 
     of nitric instead of another strong acid, like sulfuric.  
     (Hydrochloric=muriatic is a no-no!)  I'm interested whether there are 
     other passivation techniques in use.
     
     Bruce


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
Author:  gonzo@mailhost.nmt.edu at GATEWAY
Date:    96/01/31 9:48 AM


On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, David Hoopes wrote:
     
> >Stainless steel that has been forged must be heat treated, passivated and 
> >polished to maintain its stain resistance and strength.  See Carpenter
> >Steel Handbook on stainless steels. 
> >
> What does passivated mean?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> David Hoopes
> dhoopes@gvi.net
> Lenexa, Kansas (Near Kansas City, Mo) 
>
>
David,
Passivation means there is something "blocking" further reaction i.e., a 
film coating on the metal that stops oxidation. "The corrosion-resisting 
property is due to a thin, adherent, stable chromium oxide or nickel 
oxide film that effectively protects the steel against many corroding 
media." (Avner,1974)  Stainless steel will corrode rather dramatically 
when in contact with chlorine.
     
FWIW
Pete Goering
Flamingo Forge
Polvadera NM 87828

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 15:39:17 1996
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:34:02 -0800 (PST)
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From: Morgan Hall <morganh@teleport.com>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Silver Solder Compositions
In-Reply-To: <01I0NL4OVJP2007029@ACS.EKU.EDU> from "David C. Hufford" at Jan 31, 96 09:15:41 am
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David Hufford writes:

> With regard to joining band saw blades, or other applications for that 
> matter, what constitutes a `hard' silver solder?  What is the percentage 
> or ratio of silver in a `hard' solder?  

Let me try to give an old "burned out" jeweler's take on this.  I
recognize two basic types of solder -- hard and soft.  From a jeweler's
view, hard solder is nearly the same strength as the parent metal and
melts at near the same temperature.  

Thus, if I hard solder silver, the solder will be predominantly silver and 
melt somewhere between 1200 and 1400 (approx).  If I solder gold the solder 
will be mainly gold and melt a few degrees lower than the base alloy.
In actuality, these are alloys just a little closer to the eutectic
point than the alloy you are working with.  Working with sterling
silver (92.5% silver, the rest other alloy) you can usually use coin
silver as a solder.  In reality there are about 5 grades of hard solder
commercialy prepared for silver.  For gold, the alloy is usually about 2
karats below the base metal -- for solder on 14k gold you can use 12k
gold.  Again, there is usually commercialy available solder.

For copper, brazing spelter (close to brazing rod) works.  For brass and
other bronzes, brass with a bit of extra tin makes a spelter.  Thus, I
equate brazing with hard-soldering.  

Hard soldering usually uses a borax-based flux.  In fact, you can
usually hard solder using a flux of simple borax and water, although
commercial fluxes may make the job easier or clean up better.

Soft solders are normally lead or tin based.  The soft "silver" solder
may contain a small percentage of silver, but this does not materially
affect its strength or melting point.  Knife makers use this soft-silver
solder to attach knife bolsters, for example.  This is usually
successful because there is a large area wet by the solder and it can be
applied without destroying the blade temper.

Soft solders use a acid or rosin based flux.  Some very-low-temperature
solders use a glycerine-based flux.

If you were to use this soft-silver solder to join a band saw blade, I'd
prefer to be standing by the phone to call 911 when YOU turn on the
machine.  I'm not going to be anywhere near!!!

On the other hand, were you to use a hard-silver solder to join the
blade, the results would depend on the melting point of the alloy.  By 
"scarfing" the ends (actually grinding a small bevel, rather than just
butting the joint) and holding them in a very exact alignment, a silver
soldered joint using a HARD-SILVER solder should be safe.  The amount
would be so miniscule that grinding should not be necessary.  If the
joint were covered with enough solder to make grinding desireable, I'd
worry too much about alignment to use the joint.  I'd expect a solder of
around 1200-1300 melting point to give plenty of strength, and the heat
should merely soften the blade.

Note that I have NOT tried this.  I'm not an expert on bandsaw blades
by any means.  I've destroyed enough hard-soldered joints, however, to
have some idea of what's happening on them.

Hope this helps sort out soldering for someone.

Morgan

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 19:37:58 1996
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 10:29:19 -0700
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From: DAN_NIBBELINK@HP-Loveland-om10.om.hp.com
To: gonzo@mailhost.nmt.edu, owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Cc: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Denver
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960131075947.4275B-100000@jupiter>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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     Pete
     =

     First suggestion: wear your long johns and check the antifreeze in =
=

     your vehicle. Predicted low temperature -10, highs +10. I know this=
 is =

     not cold for you guys up north, but for Colorado Front Range it is.=

     =

     There is a fair amount of ironwork - gates and fences - in the Capi=
tal =

     Hill and Country Club districts, but no "must see"s that I know of.=
 =

     There was a glorious 100 year old English gate with overhead and =

     pedestrian gates, but it has disappeared. It was at an up-scale car=
 =

     dealership which went broke.
     =

     Several smiths you might call:
        Craig May, Dragon Forge, Bailey, CO 303-838-2619
        Bruce MacMillian, MacMillian Iron Works, Conifer CO, 303-932-926=
5
        Max Brun, Brun Metal Works, Broomfield CO 303-466-2513
     =

     You are welcome to visit my shop which is about 45 miles north of =

Denver. I am a sportsmith and have a day job. I will be home this weeken=
d but =

will not be working in the shop - it is tooooo cold! This is an open inv=
itation =

to everyone. I host Open Forge second Saturday afternoon of each month, =
unless =

there is a Rocky Mountain Smiths event.

        Dan Nibbelink
        RedHawk Forge
        1932 North Hwy 287
        Berthoud CO  80513
        home:   970-532-4387  metro Denver: 444-6704 ext 5570
        work:   970-635-6788
        E-mail: Dan_Nibbelink@HP-Loveland-om10.om.hp.com



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________=
________
Subject: Denver
Author:  Non-HP-owner-theforge (owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu) at =

HP-Boise,mimegw2
Date:    1/31/96 8:08 AM


I will be in Denver this weekend and would appreciate any suggestions fo=
r =

viewing ironwork, including work-in-place and smiths to visit.

Thanks in advance,

Pete Goering
Flamingo Forge
Polvadera NM 87828
(50 degrees @ 5:00 this morning - this desert life is Hell!)

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 20:29:55 1996
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From: DAN_NIBBELINK@HP-Loveland-om10.om.hp.com
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Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
     My email system seems to be messing up my replies so I'm sending this 
     message. Dan
     
Pete,
First suggestion: wear your long johns and check the antifreeze in your vehicle.
Predicted low temperature -10, highs +10. I know this is not cold for you guys 
up north, but for Colorado Front Range it is.

There is a fair amount of ironwork - gates and fences - in the Capital Hill and 
Country Club districts, but no "must see"s that I know of. There was a glorious 
100 year old English gate with overhead and pedestrian gates, but it has 
dissappeared. It was at an up-scale car dealership which went broke.

Several smiths you might call:
   Craig May, Dragon Forge, Bailey, CO 303-838-2619
   Bruce MacMillian, MacMillian Iron Works, Conifer CO, 303-932-9265
   Max Brun, Brun Metal Works, Broomfield CO 303-466-2513

You are welcome to vist my shop. I am a sportsmith and have a day job. I will be
     home this weekend but will not be working in the shop - it is tooooo 
     cold! This is an open invitation to everyone. I host Open Forge second 
     Saturday afternoon of each month, unless there is a Rocky Mountain 
     Smiths event.
     
        Dan Nibbelink
        RedHawk Forge
        1932 North Hwy 287
        Berthoud CO  80513
        home:   970-532-4387  metro Denver: 444-6704 ext 5570
        work:   970-635-6788
        E-mail: Dan_Nibbelink@HP-Loveland-om10.om.hp.com

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 21:18:31 1996
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From: freemanb@pt.Cyanamid.COM
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: ABANA chapter bylaws
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     I need some help.  We are planning to form an New Jersey chapter of 
     ABANA, and I need to see bylaws from other chapters as an aid in 
     drafting our own.  Can anyone provide such information?
     
     Thanks,
     
     Bruce Freeman

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 23:45:47 1996
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To All,
Most of the smaller work in and around Scotty's Castle is hand forged but the
large gate hinges are of the cut and paste variety. You can still see the saw
marks on them and they have been "distressed" to look forged. If anyone going
there soon, please look up Alexandria Guier and tell her that Ho says hello.
Alex runs runs the living history program at Scotty's castle and she usually
plays the "Sophisticated Lady." 

Regards, 

Bill Hochella

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Wed Jan 31 23:51:34 1996
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From: Hochewa@aol.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
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To All,
Stainless is stainless because of the formation of a thin layer of chromium
oxide on the surface. Passivation is the process by which this layer is
formed artifically. Typical passivation solutions include dilute nitric acid
and solutions of potassium dichromate and water. Passivation is necessary if
you remove the normal protective oxide or scale from the forging process by
chemical means, usually hydrocloric acid. HCl is a reducing acid whereas HNO3
is oxidizing. The oxide layer reformes very rapidly if the scale is removed
by shotblasting or grinding. If you etch off the scale with HCl, stainless
will rust with amazing speed.

Regards,

Bill Hochella

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 00:02:38 1996
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From: Hochewa@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Re[2]: Stainless steel forging
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To All,

Removing the nickel or iron from the surface of stainless steel has nothing
to do with passivation. It is the formation of the protective chromium (rich)
oxide layer. Also, if you slow cool unstabilized  versions of 300 series SS,
you will precipitate chromium carbide at the grain boundaries leaving
chromium poor zones. These zones will corrode very rapidly. You should
actually quench 300 series SS from an orange heat to prevent this. There is a
process for making SS powder by exploiting this characteristic. Stabilized
SS's are 316, 347, etc. Stabilized SS's have small amounts of titanium,
columbium or tantalum to soak up the carbon so the precipitation does not
occur. 300L series are low in carbon to take care of this too.

Regards,

Bill Hochella

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 00:38:07 1996
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:31:10 -0600
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From: chris Hubbard <t80cjh1@corn.cso.niu.edu>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: forget Stainless steel
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Thanks everyone for the advice on stainless steel.  I am convinced that this
is something I do not want to work with.  However, I still would like to
forge some nice flatware designs with some type of steel that will not rust
in the person's mouth but which can be forged with a minimum of profanity.
Does that type of steel exist and if so what is it?  Chris Hubbard, Dekalb, IL

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 01:45:36 1996
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 15:54 EST
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From: Mike Linn <mikelinn@bham.net>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: AFC Web Page
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The Alabama Forge Council has gone digital. Our new Webpage is located at
http://www.the-matrix.com/afc/index.html. Let me know what you think, and
please inform me of any changes that you think would be benificial to the
blacksmithing community. I know of a few bugs that will be fixed asap but
please send me your opinions. 

thanks

Mike Linn - AFC webmaster
                                    _///_
                                   /(o o)\
===============================o000o=(_)=o000o====
               Michael Linn 
            Artisian Blacksmith
==================================================
 "By the hammer and hand, all the arts do stand."
  motto of The Worshipful Company of Blacksmiths

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 03:08:46 1996
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:03:54 -0500
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From: andrews@netaxs.com (Jack Andrews)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: address change
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George and all interested,

Please note the email change of address:

skipjack@shore.intercom.net

Best,

Jack



Jack Andrews
1408 B Ocean Pines
Berlin,  MD   21811        skipjack@shore.intercom.net


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kaynehdwe@ioa.com.


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 03:35:18 1996
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From: marciii@ix.netcom.com (Marc Davis III )
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Can someone give us a brief descripton of what a fly press is please?

Thanks

Marc 3

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 03:42:06 1996
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From: Hochewa@aol.com
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Subject: Re: forget Stainless steel
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To All,
Stainless steel should be looked upon as a challenge and a learning
experience. Anyone can take a piece of carbon steel and eventually beat it
into the desired shape. Just the change from HRS to a higher carbon grade,
requires a little different technique. Forging bronze can be as much of a
problem as stainless. Temperature control becomes very critical. A few
degrees too hot and you have a puddle. 
As for a fork rusting in someones mouth, what did smiths use prior to
stainless? Very nice utensils can be produced with carbon steel. I just would
not put then in the dishwasher.

regards, 

Bill Hochella  

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 03:55:28 1996
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From: "John W. Pollins III" <74040.1506@compuserve.com>
To: ABANA Forum <THEFORGE@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Summer Blacksmith Classes - S.W.Pa, W.Va.
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Touchstone Center for Crafts,RD #1 Box 60,Farmington,Pa.,15437
	May 10-12* - Richard Shepard - Treadle Hammer Techniques - Adv
	June 10-15 - Robert Crecelius- Contemporary - beginning
	July 8-13 -Brad Silberberg - The Sculptural Surface - Intermediate
	July 22-27 -Glenn Horr -Beginning
	July 29-8/3-Glenn Horr - Advanced
	Aug.5-10 - Chuck Patrick-Damascus for Knifes - Intermediate
	Aug. 12-17 - Dr. James Batson - American Hand Forged Blade -Adv.
	Aug. 19-24 - Peter Ross - 18th Cent Hardware - Adv.
	Aug 23 -25* - Daniel Boone - For Fun & Profit -Intermediate
	Sept. 6 - 8* - Jody Best - Intro - Beginning
	* = weekend
Craft Center, Cedar Lakes, Ripley, WV.,25271:
	3/29 -31* - Robert Bergman -Power Hammer ABC's 
	5/17 -19* - Ed Small -Hand Forged Cutlery
	9/27 -29* - Mel Townsend -Blacksmithing
	10/25 -27*-Mel Townsend - Forged Roses

PS George, Add to Class lists if changes . These are current. 
	Pollins

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 03:57:09 1996
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From: "John W. Pollins III" <74040.1506@compuserve.com>
To: "\"Szucs\"" <osan@mtnet1.mt.att.com>
Cc: ABANA Forum <THEFORGE@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: Steel for chasing/embossing tooling
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Where did this idea that S7 is hard to harden start? One reason I prefer it
to(Oil hardening)S5 and many others is the simplicity of hardening it.  Now that
I think of it, I guess it is a trick: Hold the hitting end in the tong out of
the fire - run up the forged end bright orange almost yellow (well beyond its
magnetic conversion with this steel) - plunge it into water (George Dixon
insists on brine but I haven't been able to make out a difference). Temper back
to peacock. There's some thinking that tempering a hotcut tool is a waste of
time since it looses it's temper as soon as you touch red steel with it so I've
been using them right out of the quench with full awareness that one of them is
going to flake off a splinter into soft body parts sometime because it was too
brittle-- it just hasn't happned yet.
		John Pollins

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 04:08:19 1996
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From: "John W. Pollins III" <74040.1506@compuserve.com>
To: James Batson <jbbatson@ro.com>
Cc: ABANA Forum <THEFORGE@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: Band Saw Blades
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Jim,
	Are you using lead solder or silver? -- or does it matter?
	I built the little jig after quad state ground a little taper on both
ends, overlapped about 1/8 inch --  but I thought I was supposed to be
acceteline braze it.
	I ground off the braze so the thing would slide easily between the guids.
	The first one broke immediately and the second after about an inch (of  a
1 x 3 302 stainless bar). So I abandoned the idea until this discussion brought
it up again.
	Should I have been soldering instead?

			John Pollins	

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 12:01:32 1996
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From: jbbatson@ro.com (James Batson)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Viva Las Vegas
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>Look up Scotty's Castle on the map.  It is north of Las Vegas in
>California, near Beatty, NV.  Lots of nice traditional ironwork,
>grills, hardware, lighting etc.  Out of the way by worth the trip.
>Get there early if you wish to take pictures.    I see there is
>another posting with the same message.  I have been there.  Try
>it, you'll like it.
>Charley Orlando


Charlie, I will ask you a question which has plagued me for years.  There
are frogs in the pond at Scotty's Castle which is in the middle of the
desert.  At one time it was part of Death Valley.  The question is, How did
the frogs get in the pond in the middle of the desert?  I know frogs can't
hike 50 miles through the desert. A friend of mine thinks, birds brought in
frog eggs on their legs.

Scotty's Castle has a wishing well which is for donations.  A donation and
a request from the curator will get you a set of drawings of the ironwork.

Your friend

Jim Batson

PS This year save me a T shirt.

Bladesmith & Bowie Historian


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 13:30:17 1996
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From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <williams@color.wff.nasa.gov>
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Viva Las Vegas
In-Reply-To: jbbatson@ro.com (James Batson)
        "Re: Viva Las Vegas" (Feb  1,  6:57am)
References: <199602011157.FAA02847@sh1.ro.com>
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On Feb 1,  6:57am, James Batson wrote:
> Subject: Re: Viva Las Vegas
> >Look up Scotty's Castle on the map.  It is north of Las Vegas in
> >California, near Beatty, NV.  Lots of nice traditional ironwork,
> >grills, hardware, lighting etc.  Out of the way by worth the trip.
> >Get there early if you wish to take pictures.    I see there is
> >another posting with the same message.  I have been there.  Try
> >it, you'll like it.
> >Charley Orlando
>
>
> Charlie, I will ask you a question which has plagued me for years.  There
> are frogs in the pond at Scotty's Castle which is in the middle of the
> desert.  At one time it was part of Death Valley.  The question is, How did
> the frogs get in the pond in the middle of the desert?  I know frogs can't
> hike 50 miles through the desert. A friend of mine thinks, birds brought in
> frog eggs on their legs.
>
> Scotty's Castle has a wishing well which is for donations.  A donation and
> a request from the curator will get you a set of drawings of the ironwork.
>
> Your friend
>
> Jim Batson
>
> PS This year save me a T shirt.
>
> Bladesmith & Bowie Historian
>
>-- End of excerpt from James Batson

Jim,

The frogs got into the pond in the same manner that plant and animals
repopulate a volcanic island. Frog eggs on bird legs is possible. Additionally,
there are ponds, even in Death Valley, having animal life where frogs may have
started. Finally, there may have been some human intervention because frogs
"belong" in a pond.

As to your other comment, do you happen to have or know where I can get an
address for the curator at Scotty's Castle?

Mark




-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams

Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744

williams@color.wff.nasa.gov

Self-confidence is walking barefoot through a cowpasture at midnight on a moonless night.

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 18:43:27 1996
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From: a.sword@ccsi.com
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: don't forget Stainless steel
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>Thanks everyone for the advice on stainless steel.  I am convinced that this
>is something I do not want to work with.  However, I still would like to
>forge some nice flatware designs with some type of steel that will not rust
>in the person's mouth but which can be forged with a minimum of profanity.
>Does that type of steel exist and if so what is it?  Chris Hubbard, Dekalb, IL
>
I forge quite a bit of 416 and get excellent results in certain usages, and
it is easy to work. I use it to make swept hilts for rapiers.  I would not
recomend it for working knives but can not see why it should not serve for
flatware.

  

Daniel Watson
Angel Sword Corp.
350 Jennifer
Driftwood, Texas  78619
phone & fax (512) 847-9679
www.ccsi.com/yeeha/sword/sword2.html        

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 20:09:34 1996
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From: gschade@peterson.polaristel.net
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Steel for chasing/embossing tooling
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    I don"t have any experience with S-1 or S-7. I do have some experience
with S-5. I have a steady job (weekly) for a nearby foundry. In their
"cleaning department" they use a pneumatic chisel for removing mold sand
stuck to their castings. The chisel itself is 1/2 inch square bar from 6"
to 24" long.
    When I got this job I called the manufacturer to find out what the
steel was. It is S-5. After hammering out the edge fairly thin (one heat) I
reheat to a bright red (or slightly hotter) and quench in a three pound
coffee can filled about 3/4 full of soybean oil. I just leave it there till
there are about 20 or so chisels in there. As you can imagine the oil is
getting pretty hot. After this process I sharpen the edge sharper than a
cold chisel. Thats it. No tempering. I test one or two from every batch by
putting a piece of 1/4" stock in my vise and taking a 6" long chip. The
chisel shows a shiny edge but no apparent wear.
    This process was taught to me by the guy who did the job for many
years. The proof is that out of 100 chisels there are usually only 5 or 6
with chiped edges. And this is fairly hard use on cast iron.

    On another subject "stainless forging." While I agree that stainless is
a bear to forge, the original question was in regards to making tableware.
This would be out of relatively small stock. I would not want to scare a
guy away from an idea just because it wasn't easy. If that was the deciding
factor we would probably all be doing something besides forging.

    Stay warm out there. We had 30 below zero here (southeast Minnesota)
this morning. And both cars started (no garage)!        Bob Schade


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Thu Feb  1 23:09:45 1996
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On Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:50:06 -0400  Thomas Boudreau wrote:

>   I have a question on anvils?  We have one in the shop with a short 
horn
>in the front  of it, like a stump! Possibly an armour's anvil? It has a
>unique shape and weights approx 350#. It dates back 17th, century, or
>earlier. Anybody know its use?
>
>  TOM: Fr. Nova Scotia, Canada  (YES,  we're still a Country!!)

It sounds like one of the "Wheel Wrights Anvils",  used for making the 
Iron rims on wooden wheels in shops that specialized in that sort of 
thing.  It shoud be fairly tall as well....
-----------------------------------------------------
Name: Franklyn D. Garland        A Hobby Is Hard work
E-mail: frnklyn@mcs.com          You wouldn't Do For
Date: 02/01/96                     A Living.
Time: 16:51:28


http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
-----------------------------------------------------

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Feb  2 04:03:19 1996
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From: clay@grove.net (Clay Spencer)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
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At the Alabama Forge Council Blacksmithing Conference at Tannehill State
Park, September 6 -7, 1996, one of our demonstrators, Al Fouche', of
Jackson, GA is going to show us how he forges stainless forks or ladles.
Tannehill Home page is at
>                http://www.the-matrix.com/tannehill/park.html
Tannehill is SW of Birmingham, just off I 20, at Exit 100.
See you there.
Clay


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Feb  2 12:34:33 1996
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From: jbbatson@ro.com (James Batson)
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Subject: Re: Stainless steel forging
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>What does passivated mean?
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>David Hoopes
>dhoopes@gvi.net
>Lenexa, Kansas (Near Kansas City, Mo)


According to Webster: passivate- Metallurgy, to treat a metal so as to form
a protective coating on its surface and reduce its chemical activity.

When SS is heated and forged the chrome and nickle separate from the iron
leaving areas of iron which will show as rust spots on the surface.  To
break up these areas into smaller areas with less stain, one raises the
temperature to about 1900 degrees F. and quenches in water.  After this to
get the most stain resistance, one must polish the surface and passivate in
a solution of about 5% nitric acid for a period of time.  This is for
Ornamental Iron.  Some SS's are age hardening and others can be hardened
and tempered for cutting instuments.

Jim

Bladesmith & Bowie Historian


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Feb  2 12:34:35 1996
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From: jbbatson@ro.com (James Batson)
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Subject: Don't forget Stainless steel
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>Thanks everyone for the advice on stainless steel.  I am convinced that this
>is something I do not want to work with.  However, I still would like to
>forge some nice flatware designs with some type of steel that will not rust
>in the person's mouth but which can be forged with a minimum of profanity.
>Does that type of steel exist and if so what is it?  Chris Hubbard, Dekalb, IL


You can forge small objects like forks and spoons, etc out of SS.  You may
get paid for your efforts with these high dollar items.  Go to the junk
yard and find some none magnetic 3/8 inch diameter SS rod.  The odds are
that the SS will be 304.  Experiment with the heats.  Start at a bright
orange.  Don't forge below a bright red.  SS will crack when forged at a
low temperature.  After forging, raise to bright orange and quench in
water.  Wire brush, sand and polish with white SS polishing compound.  SS
takes extra effort, but may be worth it.

Jim Batson

Bladesmith & Bowie Historian


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Feb  2 14:45:20 1996
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>As to your other comment, do you happen to have or know where I can get an
>address for the curator at Scotty's Castle?

Mark, Scotty's Castle is a National Park or Monument.  I do not know the
phone number.

Jim

Bladesmith & Bowie Historian


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Feb  2 15:24:25 1996
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I am in the process of forging some hinges for a pair of doors on my new
shop. These doors are pretty heavy, 2x6 frame with 1x4's nailed on diagonally
and insulation in between.

I am wondering if there are standards for the size stock to use and the
number of hinges required to carry the weight. I am thinking three hinges
from 1/4 x 1-1/4.

The doors are 54 inches wide by 72 inches high -- don't know the weight.

Would appreciate advice.
--Jim McCarty

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Fri Feb  2 22:50:11 1996
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Date: Fri,  2 Feb 96 16:40:42 PST
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From: frnklyn@mcs.com
To: ABANA Mailing List <theforge@wugate.wustl.edu>
Subject: Strange Anvil
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On Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:50:06 -0400  Thomas Boudreau wrote:

>   I have a question on anvils?  We have one in the shop with a short 
horn
>in the front  of it, like a stump! Possibly an armour's anvil? It has a
>unique shape and weights approx 350#. It dates back 17th, century, or
>earlier. Anybody know its use?
>
>  TOM: Fr. Nova Scotia, Canada  (YES,  we're still a Country!!)

It sounds like one of the "Wheel Wrights Anvils",  used for making the 
Iron rims on wooden wheels in shops that specialized in that sort of 
thing.  It shoud be fairly tall as well....
-----------------------------------------------------
Name: Franklyn D. Garland        A Hobby Is Hard work
E-mail: frnklyn@mcs.com          You wouldn't Do For
Date: 02/02/96                     A Living.
Time: 16:40:43


http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
-----------------------------------------------------

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Feb  3 02:12:28 1996
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From: "Charles Orlando" <orlandoc@alfredtech.edu>
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Subject: Mokume
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I saw the posting on mokume.  There will be a demonstration on how to 
make this material at the 1996 conference in Alfred.  Steven Walker, 
who is one of the leading makers of mokume, will be putting on the 
demonstration.
Charley Orlando
1996 ABANA conference

From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Feb  3 04:09:42 1996
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 22:09:26 -0500
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From: GDixon@gate.ioa.com (George Dixon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Our System
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Greetings Folks,

This regards how our system operates.  There are two settings at "this" end
of the system which control automatic deletes.  If your local access
company has periodic but repeated mail problems in a short period of time,
there is a possibilty that theforge system will automatically delete your
subscription. This is caused by its inability to deliver mail for a set
period of time to a given address.  I have had the systems "sensitivity" to
mail-server problems lowered for several weeks. This will eliminate
deletions but it vastly overloads the sysops mail with error messages
generated by individual local access problems.
This  period will last through February and then the sensitivity will be
set back to normal.
I want everyone to know that if in the future they stop getting mail
(unlike the once only software crash) they can either do a new "subscribe
theforge" e-mail or notify me and I will deal with it.    Again, if you
think you have been punted, either resubscribe or let me know.  Thanks,
take care.
George Dixon
ABANA SysOp


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Feb  3 05:56:37 1996
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From: wils@texas.net (Wil Smith)
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Subject: Charley O's book
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Charley, I've been looking forward to your new book. Can you give us an
update on its status?

wil


From owner-theforge@wugate.wustl.edu  Sat Feb  3 20:05:44 1996
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From: GDixon@gate.ioa.com (George Dixon)
To: theforge@wugate.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Steel for chasing/embossing tooling  S-7
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I just completed teaching a weeklong course at Campbell Folkschool that
dealt with period motifs.  The tools the students needed to make mostly
(90+ pieces) came from S-7 (1/2" dia. 5" long) which was hardened in brine.
They were used, without tempering, under treadle hammers in both hot and
cold chasing as well as hot cuttin