Subject: Re: Steel for chasing/embossing tooling

From: "John W. Pollins III" <[email-masked]>
Date: 31 Jan 96 22:46:23 EST

Where did this idea that S7 is hard to harden start? One reason I prefer it
to(Oil hardening)S5 and many others is the simplicity of hardening it.  Now that
I think of it, I guess it is a trick: Hold the hitting end in the tong out of
the fire - run up the forged end bright orange almost yellow (well beyond its
magnetic conversion with this steel) - plunge it into water (George Dixon
insists on brine but I haven't been able to make out a difference). Temper back
to peacock. There's some thinking that tempering a hotcut tool is a waste of
time since it looses it's temper as soon as you touch red steel with it so I've
been using them right out of the quench with full awareness that one of them is
going to flake off a splinter into soft body parts sometime because it was too
brittle-- it just hasn't happned yet.
		John Pollins

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:02:47 -0500

I don"t have any experience with S-1 or S-7. I do have some experience
with S-5. I have a steady job (weekly) for a nearby foundry. In their
"cleaning department" they use a pneumatic chisel for removing mold sand
stuck to their castings. The chisel itself is 1/2 inch square bar from 6"
to 24" long.
    When I got this job I called the manufacturer to find out what the
steel was. It is S-5. After hammering out the edge fairly thin (one heat) I
reheat to a bright red (or slightly hotter) and quench in a three pound
coffee can filled about 3/4 full of soybean oil. I just leave it there till
there are about 20 or so chisels in there. As you can imagine the oil is
getting pretty hot. After this process I sharpen the edge sharper than a
cold chisel. Thats it. No tempering. I test one or two from every batch by
putting a piece of 1/4" stock in my vise and taking a 6" long chip. The
chisel shows a shiny edge but no apparent wear.
    This process was taught to me by the guy who did the job for many
years. The proof is that out of 100 chisels there are usually only 5 or 6
with chiped edges. And this is fairly hard use on cast iron.

    On another subject "stainless forging." While I agree that stainless is
a bear to forge, the original question was in regards to making tableware.
This would be out of relatively small stock. I would not want to scare a
guy away from an idea just because it wasn't easy. If that was the deciding
factor we would probably all be doing something besides forging.

    Stay warm out there. We had 30 below zero here (southeast Minnesota)
this morning. And both cars started (no garage)!        Bob Schade

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:40:28 -0500

I don"t have any experience with S-1 or S-7. I do have some experience
with S-5. I have a steady job (weekly) for a nearby foundry. In their
"cleaning department" they use a pneumatic chisel for removing mold sand
stuck to their castings. The chisel itself is 1/2 inch square bar from 6"
to 24" long.
    When I got this job I called the manufacturer (Ajax) to find out what the
steel was. It is S-5. After hammering out the edge fairly thin (one heat) I
reheat to a bright orange and quench in a three pound coffee can filled
about 3/4 full of soybean oil. I just leave it there till there are about
20 or so chisels in there. As you can imagine the oil is getting pretty
hot. After this process I sharpen the edge sharper than a cold chisel.
Thats it. No tempering. Except whats going on in the can. I test one or two
from every batch by
putting a piece of 1/4" stock in my vise and taking a long chip. The chisel
shows a shiny edge but no apparent wear.
    This process was taught to me by the guy who did the job for several
years. The proof is that out of 100 chisels there are usually only 5 or 6
with chipped edges. And this is fairly hard use on cast iron.
    On another subject re:stainless forging. While I agree that stainless is
hard to forge, the original question was in regards to making
tableware.This would be out of relatively small stock. I would not want to
scare a guy away from an idea just because it wasn't easy. If that was the
deciding factor we would probably all be doing something besides forging.
    Also I think its false economy to use scrapyard steel. Steel is cheap,
even stainless. At least if you're selling your stuff. Unless you are SURE
of the steel you can lose a lot of work.
                                   Hubba Hubba!  Bob Schade