Subject: re:Gasketing & Slick Forge

From: "daryl (d.a.) bender" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:21:00 -0400 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.996:24.04.96.15.52.03]

Well to be honest calling it the "world's slickest" is patting myself on 
the back somewhat but basically it (the forge) entails addressing all 
the little details

- DC blower motor with speed control (quiet and infinitly variable from 
Zero to Mount St Hellens). AC input.
- The above is to be quickly removable for my separate hand blower for 
remote use.
- rails for tong hanging.
- cradles for hammer hanging.
- handgrips for moving.
- contoured forge top to allow for firepot contours.
- foot rest/leg stiffener. (forge legs that is)
- generally built like a brick s%#t house with lightness in mind.
- provision made for future integrated "BUN-O-MATIC" 3 pot coffee 
machine and donut warmer 8^).

Still wondering about fiberglass vs asbestos gasketing,
Daryl

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From: [email-masked] (W Thomas Powers)
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:43:37 -0400

I saw a slick portable gas forge last summer.  It was an expanded metal
cylinder lined with kaowool(?) and run off of one of the small cylindrical
propane tanks.  It came up to temp in under 5 min and would run an
hour on a tank.  The whole thing including the tank weighed around 5 pounds
It wouldn't weld or do large work---but it was designed by a knifemaker
and sure beat carrying around all the weight I end up with!

Thomas
Columbus,OH

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From: [email-masked] (Dan Hughes)
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:36:00 -0400

>How about using Durablanket or Kaowool? You should be able to smush it
>down into something flat and gasket like.
>
>--
>Steven O. Smith
>[email-masked]
That should work fine. I have seen that done for the cleaning/inspection
port on an oil furnace.

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From: [email-masked] (Norman Larson Books)
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:23:47 -0700

I have a sheet of asbestos .25" thick and would be happy send a piece gratis
to the person who wants to make a gasket for their tuyere--can't imagine it
taking a piece more than 6" x 6".  Contact me at the above address.

Norm

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From: "David C. Hufford" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 07:19:03 -0400 (EDT)

Daryl:

I don't recall your original query, but how about that gasket rope used 
on the doors of wood stoves?  It comes in various sizes and should stand 
up to the heat.  Or is that what you said you were considering in the 
first place?

Your forge design sounds very interesting - especially the coffee 
capability.  Perhaps you should submit an article about it to the 
Anvil's Ring.

D.C. Hufford

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From: "Harold E. McKinney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 May 96 13:12:30 -0400

I may be way off base, but has anyone ever tried using automotive plastic gasket material that comes in a tube for this purpose?  It can be used for some high-temp automotive locations.  Auto supply stores have it.  I have used it around my blower, but never around my tuyere.  If it's a stupid idea, flame me<grin>.
Mac

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 22:58:22 -0400

I used to install large, gas-fired boilers and we had a high temp, braided
rope which went into a groove on the door.  After it was in place, we would
"mud" it with a plastic, ceramic material which would seal when you screwed
the door tight.  If I remember correctly, this was rated to 2600 degrees.  It
came from Cleaver Brooks and was part of a repair kit that they sold, but I
imagine the parts are available separately.  This might work for your gasket
material if you could get it.

hollis

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From: [email-masked] (John & Cynthia/ MidLife Crisis Ent.)
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 00:06:32 +0200

>and sure beat carrying around all the weight I end up with!

Thomas and others,

        I have been on this list for just a couple of days but I have been
on the ArtMetal list for many months.  I have been using a Kalwool kiln for
4 years.  Made it out or 1/2" welded wire for a stiffner/frame, set on edge
with the Kalwol held up on the inside of the wire "ring" with 1" kiln wire
insulators (I buy tubes about 6 inches long with a hole down the center and
score then break them into 1" pieces) and nicrome wire (making a sort of
horseshoe shape poking the wires thru the wool to the outside and bending
the ends over).  I used a layer of high temp woll on the inside and a
second layer of the cheaper low temp on the outside to get better thermal
insulation.  a Lid is made basically the same way and a hole is cut out of
the center for exhaust.   I can carry a 3+'X3' high ring myself.  Heavier
outer support wire will be used on the next one (the larger unit is for
burning out the ceramic shells).  Made a smaller one for melting (I cast
bronze mostly) and made a 5" add-on ring to make a taller furnace, for the
larger crucible when needed.

        These are fired with burners made from about a 3' long piece of 2"
black pipe with a hair dryer or better a small squirrel cage fan.  The gas
nozzel is a piece of 1/2" pipe, notch cut on the end and welded closed.  A
hole (1/16 to 1/8 inch) drilled into the side of the pipe is the gas
"nozzel".  I can melt 85lbs of bronze in 45 minutes with propane with this
set up.  Use about 20psi gas pressure (get a variable gas regulator from
your gas supplier).  I use snap-on air fittings for all of my gas lines.  I
also use a ball valve for on/off as well as a needle valve past the ball
valve for actually fine tuning the flame.  I can run both of these most of
the day for about $25.00 in gas ($1.00 to 1.15 per gallon).

        The Kalwoll material surely does lend itself to lite/portable
heating units.  I should think that with enough air and gas pressure you
could get enough heat to melt steel.

        I hope this is of help to sombody.

                Best,

                John

John Dach and Cynthia Thomas
Maiden Metals
a div. of
MidLife Crisis Enterprises
PO BX 44
Philo, CA  95466           Fingerprints and snowflakes are not
707-895-2635(phone/fax)         the only things unique.
800-749-1981

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From: "daryl (d.a.) bender" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 09:51:00 -0400 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.511:26.04.96.13.51.52]

Wow

I was not expecting so many ideas!! I ended up going with the fiberglass 
"rope" on the insistence of the woodstove guy that it would work. Since 
it is not in the fire but just near the fire the temp should be OK. I 
figure if we are wrong the worst that could happen is that it melts and 
I try something else. If I remember I will post the results. Likely if 
you here nothing it went well. All other suggestions have been filed for 
possible future reference. Thanks!!

As for toxicity I'd be surprised if fiberglass is any better. I remember 
listening to an old insulator coughing once...eeeeeeeeeee! Sounded like 
a cross between a coffee pucolator and an asmatic.

Speaking of coffee I was only kidding about the BUN-O-MATIC and the 
donut warmer on the forge, at least for now 8^)

Daryl 

In message " Gasketing & Slick Forge", [email-masked] writes:

>I'm surprised no one has picked on the fiberglass vs. asbestos 
>gasketing yet. Fiberglass should be fine.  Glass does melt at forge 
>temperatures, but only at the center of the fire.  The big problem with 
>asbestos (aside from lung cancer) is the fact that most jurisdictions 
>are now classifying it as toxic waste.  Hardly anyone manufactures it 
>anymore, you can't ship it, etc.  Try the fiberglass first.
>
>Pete Engle
>

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From: "daryl (d.a.) bender" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 11:03:00 -0400 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.258:26.04.96.15.03.13]

Hi Norm

Per my post I thought I'd try the fiberglass but hey, thanks big time 
for the offer!! That's really nice of you!! However if the fiberglass 
fails I may be back 8^)

Cheers
Daryl

In message "  gasketing & slick forge", [email-masked]

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From: "Bruce M. Freeman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 19:45:03 -0400

>As for toxicity I'd be surprised if fiberglass is any better [than
asbestos]. I remember 
>a cross between a coffee pucolator and an asmatic.

Let me stick my two cents in here.  Make no mistake about it:  SOME FORMS of
asbestos are d****d toxic.  Really bad news.

In addition to this, ANY respirable particle is bad for you.  That is
particles that are small enough to float as a dust and get past the usual
traps your breathing apparatus provides.

The interesting thing is that pure glass MIGHT not be such a bad actor.
Apparently there's some evidence that the stuff actually dissolves in the
lungs, so there's no accumulation.  Mind you, this is apocryphal.  And
there's no telling what the binders on commercial fiberglass will do to you.

And in any event it would certainly be possible to overload your capacity to
dissolve anything.  (Water is non-toxic, but get a teaspoonful down the
wrong pipe and you'll be very uncomfortable.  Get a quart or two down the
wrong pipe and it's likely to be fatal.)

Bruce

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From: [email-masked] (John & Cynthia/ MidLife Crisis Ent.)
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 21:55:19 +0200

snip
>a cross between a coffee pucolator and an asmatic.
snip

Asbestos has been very misalligned.  There are a few types of the fiber
that are dangerous, but the majority are not.  This  whole thing has really
been blown out of proportion.  As to the glass being dangerous, actually
most any fiber material can be dangerous to ones health if breathed in, in
large amounts over a long period of time.  Actually most any dermal or
internal contact with most any chemical or mineral product should be delt
with, with caution.

John Dach and Cynthia Thomas
Maiden Metals
a div. of
MidLife Crisis Enterprises
PO BX 44
Philo, CA  95466           The only thing that we know for sure
707-895-2635(phone/fax)            is that we believe.
800-749-1981

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From: [email-masked] (Clay Spencer)
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 22:27:02 -0400

>Zero to Mount St Hellens). AC input.

Sounds pretty good except (IMHO) a gate to control the air flow is much
superior than any variable speed setup I have ever seen. The gate is much
quicker to adjust and less likely to have trouble. Many of the variables
require several tweaking adjustments to get your air right.
Try one and I think you will agree.
Clay

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From: "daryl (d.a.) bender" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 09:24:00 -0400 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.147:28.04.96.13.24.34]

Hi Clay

I thought that went without saying. I have both. Motor speed control to 
set the rate that the air moves through the fire pot and the slide gate 
to provide an ON/OFF function (work in/work out). After all, this is 
supposed to be a slick forge eh! 8^)

Daryl

In message "Gasketing & Slick Forge", [email-masked] writes:

>>- DC blower motor with speed control (quiet and infinitly variable 
>>from Zero to Mount St Hellens). AC input.
>
>superior than any variable speed setup I have ever seen. The gate is 
>much quicker to adjust and less likely to have trouble. Many of the 
>variables require several tweaking adjustments to get your air right.