Subject: claydon or clayton knot

From: [email-masked] (Roger Olsen)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 05:50:18 -0800

i have heard of a fastening technique called a clayton or claydon knot but
have never seen one. can someone describe it, and possibly the how to. can
it be used on round as well as square and rectangle unions?

thanks

roger olsen

from the east slope of the cascade mountains in north central washington

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:48:02 -0700

Erik,
  Write to Jere Kirkpatrick at Valley Forge and Welding, 651 East Valley 
street, Willits, CA. 95490 and ask about his jig for making the elements 
for a Claydon Knot.  He'll be happy to have another name to whom to send 
his catalog.
  Bob

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From: "Steven O. Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 12:27:30 MDT

Lets see if I can describe this (I don't know how it's spelled
either):

The knot is a method for joining two (round?) bars at right angles
with a short length of thin wall pipe. Lay the bars perpendicular to
each other, with the thin wall in between them. The thin wall is
perpendicular to both bars--if you lay the bars out left and right on
the ground, the thin wall axis goes up. Now push on the whole assembly
(down), and the thin wall pipe will crush around both bars to be
joined.

This was in Anvil's Ring not all that long ago (2 years?). It's
patented, but licensing fees might not be all that expensive.

--
Steven O. Smith
[email-masked]

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From: "Duane C. Johnson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:06:56 -0700

Hi steven;

> patented, but licensing fees might not be all that expensive.

Hey that works neat! I just did it with a piece of paper taped into a
ring and two pencils. Although the paper didn't stretch like metal
would I can see how it works. It really is clever how the ring tries
to crawl around and cover both bars. It seems unnatural watching
it happen.

Do you have any information on the proper dimentions for the ring
given the diameters of the bars. Can the bars be of different size?
Can the bars be at different angles than 90 degrees?

Have you got the patent # ?

-- 
CUL8ER

Duane C. Johnson
WA0VBE
Red Rock Energy
1825 Florence St.
White Bear Lake, MN, USA 55110-3364
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/3027/
(612)426-4766 h  635-5065 d

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From: "Steven O. Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 14:43:51 MDT

> Duane C. Johnson

I gave all I remembered about it. Can you dig through old Anvil's
Ring? (If not you should join ABANA :)) I could dig through mine, but
1. I'd have to remember and 2. I'd have to actually do it.

--
Steven O. Smith
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:51:47 -0700

As I recall, the proportion  is 1 and one half times the diameter of the 
bars to be joined, works best with round stock, and clamps like crazy if 
you remember to quench the joint as soon as it's made.  the bars may 
rotate inside the joint, but you can't pull them apart.  Gates made this 
way are very solid.
  Havn't tried bars of different diameters, but if the difference were 
not too great, it should work, I would increase the length of the short 
pipe by the difference in bar sizes times two.  For example, difference 
of 1/8 inch, add a quarter inch to the pipe length.  There were several 
variations that he also demonstrated, one neat one was to collapse the 
end of a pipe around a solid vertical, like a finial.  The effect was as 
if the thing had fallen out of the sky and stuck into the pipe, caving 
the end around it.  A tack weld, and provision to keep water out are 
essential, since there isn't much grip, but it looks terrific!
  Bob

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From: Norman Larson Books <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 19:22:49 PDT

thanks

roger olsen

Roger--

The item that is referred to as the Claydon Knot was invented by Stuart Hill, an 
English blacksmith, who devised the process to make th know.  Saw Stuart 
make one in 1979 at the first blacksmithing function I went to in Sacramento.  He 
said that he took apart and put together a larkshead knot (I think) on the end of  
a rope for several days until he saw what the "elements" were, and then he 
made a jig to bend the rods so that the knot could be made.  No jig--no knot.  I 
made a jig and made quite a few of the knots after his demo, but have since 
given the jig away--I know people who have the dimensions to make the jig and 
can probably get them if you are interested.  

I've only made them out of round stock up to 3/8" dia. but have never tried sq. or 
rectangular.

If you'll be at the NWBA conference at Port Townsend next month, I'll bring a 
few knot and a poker that Stuart Hill made that I won in the Iron in the Hat.

Norm Larson
[email-masked]

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From: Jim McCarty <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:50:45 -0500

> 1. I'd have to remember and 2. I'd have to actually do it.

I have good notes from David Thompson's demo at Alfred. Will dig them 
out and post what he had to say when I get the chance.
Jim
-- 
Jim McCarty
Father Helias Forge
Taos, MO
Editor Rural Missouri Magazine
Newsletter editor, Blacksmiths Association of Missouri

³Foolish consistencies are the hobgoblins of little minds³

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From: Jim McCarty <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:42:52 -0500

> from the east slope of the cascade mountains in north central washington

The guy to talk to is David Thompson from Oregon -- he did a great 
demo on this joint at Alfred.
-- 
Jim McCarty
Father Helias Forge
Taos, MO
Editor Rural Missouri Magazine
Newsletter editor, Blacksmiths Association of Missouri

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From: Norman Larson Books <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 19:31:05 PDT

thanks

roger olsen

Roger--

I'm afraid that I didn't read your message too well before I responded.  Since 
you mentioned fastening, I think you are referring to the Claydon clamp which I 
don't know the specifics of, but can find out.  Sorry for confusing the issue.

Norm Larson
[email-masked]