Subject: Re: cylinders

From: [email-masked] (jeramo)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:26:48 -0700

>What about this approach: 
>1. Don't use a cylinder that had flammable gas in it in the first place,
>try argon or CO2 or air. 
>2. If you have to mess with another kind, let out the gas, remove the
>valve, fill the open cylinder with water, rinse it out, fill it with water
>again, and then cut it while it is filled with water. 
>This is for the sake of conjecture - I am not advising on doing this, just
>putting it out for comment. 
>-- 
>               Bill Wyant 
>   Bladesmith / Art Blacksmith 
>Avalon Ironworks, Ft. Wayne, IN 
>    [email-masked]
>
I have three bells that I made from heavy-walled "specialty gas" (that's
what the guy at Pacific Air-Gas called them) cylinders.  They, and I imagine
most other gas cylinder filling companies, would not turn loose of a
condemned cylinder that they had not cut the bottom out of.  These guys are
the experts, I'd call a industrial gas company to get specifics.  I know
that it is possible to go very wrong even when a person is absolutly sure
about what they are doing as in the example of the twenty year old gas tank.
For such things as old fuel oil tanks OSHA requires a very long steam purge,
and fuel oil isn't all that flammable.

R. Coon

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From: jack yates <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:03:24 -0700

> and fuel oil isn't all that flammable.

FWIW, y'all, I relate these two instances:  In 1974, I became a casualty 
of a combination of a automobile gas tank with unseen, broken line and a 
cutting torch; the car in question had been sitting in a junkyard for 
several years, the flexible hose had rotted, we turned the car on its 
side aned I was cutting the rear end out...the sun evidently heated the 
tank enough to vaporize what little gas there may have been in the tank, 
the fumes came out through the broken hose....BOOM!  I say casualty as 
when my condition was evaluated at the hospital, It was determined that 
although I was still breathing, I was 105% dead...

...And...Back in the 1960's I belonged to a Volunteer Fire Department; we 
had a water truck that had spent the first years of its life as a fuel 
oil delivery truck (It was a '47 International)..the tank had started 
leaking and we asked a local welder if he would repair it; this was 
before I learned how to weld...He said "No, it's had fuel in it."  We 
countered, "Yes, but it's been sitting full of water for eight years."  
"No matter," he replied "When a steel tank is filled with fuel the pores 
of the steel expand and contract with the changes in temperature just as 
the pores of your skin do; microscopic droplets of fuel get trapped in 
the pores and when the steel is heated by the welder, the fuel is 
released as a gas and is likely to explode."  By way of his credentials, 
I submit that this man had started his welding career in the days of bare 
electrodes...

However:..I *have* cut open a fuel tank safely; I cut a 4" dia. hole in a 
500 gal tank using an air chisel, we used "Rectorseal. white lead and oil 
as a lubricant to exclude the possibility of any sparks..if it were a 
fuel gas cylinder, I would use a hacksaw or bandsaw and *plenty* of 
cutting oil.  I have seen a 2000 gal. gasoline tank that had been dug up 
travel 50 feet during the EPA required process of rendering it useless by 
cutting it open..it was filled with an inert gas (supposedly) and the 
worker was using a torch to cut the end open....fortunately, he was not 
hurt...

...It ain't worth the trip, y'all....

			Jack

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:21:28 -0500 (CDT)

Well, thought I'd add my horror story to the list -
Beware of anything that might once have contained flamable liquid or 
gas.  NEVER take anyone's word for it.  MAKE SURE for yourself.

   A number of years back when I was a teen, we were going to remove an 
old wreked boat that was causing a water hazard.  Once we cleared most of 
the sand from it, we were to use 55gal drums to float it.  So we had this 
supply of "emptied" drums (found out later they used to hold PAINT!).  
The leader decided we needed to cut larger holes in the top of the drums, 
so he proceded to take a concrete saw and go after one of the drums.  I 
was standing nearby, and got a shower of sparks on my legs, so I turned 
and moved away.  As I was turned, I heard a tremendous BOOM and turned to 
see the leader on his butt, bleeding from a scalp wound, holding the 
motor part only of the saw, and this concave section of metal pressed 
into the sand.  About 4 seconds after the explosion I then heard a splash 
from the barrel's reentry.  The sparks had ignited paint residue and 
launched the barrel (minus the bottom) high up into the air.
   The injuries were minor (slight scalp wound on the leader and burns on 
my legs), but later when my father found the blade section of the 
concrete saw about 100 feet out in the water, I traced a path out, and if 
I hadn't moved, I would've been right in the way of a fast moving, 
spinning blade...

   You can guess that when I recently made my forge from a 55gal drum, I 
was VERY careful to make sure it hadn't carried anything flamable, and 
even then rinsed it out and left it unplugged out in the open air.

Jerry

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From: Steve Herrick <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:45:29 -0700 (PDT)

Here, a local welding company was welding a mud flap to the outside frame
of a fuel tanker truck. I blew the door (12ft. by 20ft.) three blocks
away, killed the two welders, and injured the owner. he also has to pay a
fine for a safety violation, and bury the two welders, both of whom were 
his sons....

I got a job at a high voltage switch manufacturer, after one of there
switch blew up when being repaired for a lightning strike. These switches
are filled with neutral oil, (you know the high flash point oil) and it
seeams the lightning volatized the oil into a flamable/explosive mixture.
One spark, and the whole thing blew and caught on fire, injuring two....

Hrolthgar -   [email-masked]
           Steve Herrick