Subject: UL Approval: Revisited

From: "Franklyn Garland" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 16:29:30 +0000

I called Underwriters Laboratory in Northbrook, IL just the other day. 
 I decided to pursue the concept of getting UL approval for a "one 
of" lamp etc., as made by an artist/blacksmith.

Quite a shock.

There are two ways you -could- do it.  One is a field test, wherein 
UL comes out and looks the piece over, inspects it, etc..  Minimum 
cost?    $1500   (ouch..........)

The second option is to "open a folder" of test exempt pieces.  You 
would make a few lamps, using UL approved parts.  Submit them for 
inspection, making certain to state that you do not want them 
destroyed.  After inspecting the product, and then inspecting the 
manufacturing facility and methods, you "could" get UL approval.  You 
could then slap the UL label on items made in a similar fashion but 
differing cosmetically.  In otherwords, same wire, hardware, etc..,  
Minimum cost?  $800   The cost would probably be considerably more 
for our application, however. 

In my opinion, you would have to make A LOT of lamps before you could 
recoup an invest of approx  $1000.  You would also be pigeon holed 
into making a certain "kind" of lamp or product.  Even small 
differences in mechanical design could require recertification.

I wounder if its possible to state on the tag or label, "Made from 
100% UL approved hardware, final assembly carries no warrentee or 
guarentee"

Do you think the lawyers would wet themselves when they see that?

=================================================
Franklyn D. Garland                         
The Celtic Knot Forge                       
[email-masked]                                 
http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
For Public PGP key, finger [email-masked]
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From: "daryl (d.a.) bender" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 10:58:00 -0400 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.786:08.06.96.14.58.48]

I will also add on the second option if you change anything 
(materials) on the design you call UL back in.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 16:31:46 -0600

>Cynthia Hull wrote:
>>
>> Wiring a lamp is so elementry and if you are using UL approved parts the
>> possibility of something malfunctioning would be with the part and rare.
>> Are we just bowing under the percieved power of the !!!LAWYERS!!!!?  You can
>> have lawyers too ya know.  Fear is so imobilizing and here I see it
>> preventing creative production... same old story.
>>
>>
>> Cynthia
>> TX
>

I wonder if one could get a copy of the various tests that UL puts a lamp
through, and then make sure your lamps are in compliance. This might be
some help if the big bad lawyers come after you which I think is an
unlikely event.

Bob

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From: "daryl (d.a.) bender" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 18:42:00 -0400 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.006:11.06.96.22.42.57]

Likely they will connect it to a source that you have specified the lamp 
should be connected to and then proceed to fail it in all conceivable 
ways and make sure it fails safe (no fire etc). Usually when they take 
an axe to the wire the breaker (previosly specified) trips, big deal. If 
you have connected the green wire to your metalwork, bought quality 
sockets and ensured the wire is capable of carrying the current 
(including fault current) the whole thing is a big snore. About the only 
other gotcha I can think of is don't contain your lights too much due to 
the heat build-up. This is why you see 40W max on those flakey study 
lamps.
If you're really worried (all this assumes you know electrics or why are 
you doing this) get a copy of the National Electrical Code and prepare 
to flip pages ad nauseum. Or for surfers http://www.ul.com/index.html 
for UL's home page

For 15A, net-net use 14AWG if your not making a chandelier.  

Daryl

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From: "Bruce M. Freeman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 21:46:17 -0400

I've been following this thread, and want to add a comment.  I, too, do my
own wiring (not for sale) and have no fear or bewilderment about it.  But
how would  you like to be on the wrong end of a poorly wired lamp?  No fun,
and maybe fatal.  For manufactured goods, UL is an answer.

If this issue is important enough to enough people, why not consider an
alternative.  Perhaps you could get some kind of certification (e.g., as an
electrician), so you could say "lamp asssembled by state-certified
electrician."  Not UL, but reassuring to the user.  And it would keep the
true dummies (and their out there) from assembling my bathroom lamp!
Bruce

At 03:27 PM 7/10/96 -0500, Cynthia Hull wrote:
>What if you just put a sort of disclaimer on the lamp such as "impower in at
>your own risk"..., "since this object was not sold while connected to an
>electrical outlet, the manufacturer accepts no responsibility resulting in
>such a connection"... "object sold as is without warrentee, guarantee, or
>liability"..."purchase of this object places all lability of any intended
>usage upon purchaser"...   etc.?
>  
>At 04:29 PM 7/7/96 +0000, you wrote: