Subject: Re: Champion blowers

From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC <Matt_Balent/HCS/[email-masked]>
Date: 7 Jun 96 12:24:51 EDT

>I am fixing up a Champion 400 blower and was wondering if anyone knows 
>what color these were originally? This one has none of the original 
>paint on it. Awhile back we had a discussion on how to keep the oil 
<SNIP> 
>Jim McCarty
>Father Helias Forge

- My 400 appears to have been a medium red at some time.  Original
color? I can't say.

- Matt Balent

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:36:35 -0400

Jim 
Just did one myself, when reassembling I took a pice of leather from
an old welding glove about the size of a quater punch a hole smaller
than the fan shaft, sliped it on then pushed the fan blade tight against
it. Seems to be work fine right now but may wareout with use?????

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 20:47:57 -0400

In a message dated 96-06-07 11:21:51 EDT, you write:

>what color these were originally?

Jim, mine has some black paint still on it, and I think that it is the
original ( I've had it for maybe 30 years).  I'll scratch a little off
tomorrow and take a look in the daylight.  
Mike Schermerhorn

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 00:08:58 -0400

I have torn apart 3 or 4 Champion blowers and they all were red or black
inside the fan case or in the crevices.  I kinda think the red looks correct
and it was about the shade of a Ford 8N tractor.

hollis

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:14:51 -0400

>tomorrow and take a look in the daylight.  

Looks black to me.
Mike Schermerhorn

---

From: "Bruce M. Freeman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 22:04:40 -0400

>I really like Champion stuff. Yesterday I looked at a really unusual 
>Champion Forge. I think it was a No.4 or No.40. It had 4 legs that 
>supported a bracket in the center. On one side of the bracket was a 
>smaller version of the 400 blower and on the other side was a round 
>fire pot. It looked like it would be unstable but was really pretty 
>sturdy. Judging by the quick release nuts on the legs, I would say 
>this was designed to be taken apart and stored easily. You could give 
>the blower handle a gentle nudge and the blower would turn for 3 or 4 
>revolutions -- real smooth. Still trying to come to terms with the 
>guy. Would make a real nice forge for demos. Never seen one like this 
>before.
>-- 
>Jim McCarty

This sounds like one that was donated to the Allaire Village (NJ) Smithy.
Is the 
fire pot a sheet metal thing with a cast iron "grate" over the tuyere?  Is the 
blower connected to the tuyere by a hefty 3" pipe?  I don't recall for sure
whether 
ours is a Champion.  The firepot (being sheet metal) was lined with
firebrick.  I
just cemented that loose brick in with refractory cement.  Works fine, but
we haven't 
used it much yet.

Bruce Freeman

---

From: mike wolfe <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 09:22:45 -0400

The best thing you can do with a champion blower, is to go to your local surplus
store and buy a 110v permanent magnet variable speed motor, 1\8, 1/4, 1/2 hp, 
1725rpm works ok,  but other sizes and speeds will work,  pull the  blower head 
off the 400, and fan blade, just use only  the blower housing and the fan
blade, you sell the rest at
quad-state in sept. You take the fan blade and drill it out to the size of
the shaft of the
new motor, then you drill and tap one hole in the edge of the shaft hole,
put in a allen head set screw,
You take 1\2 of the blower housing and mount it to the motor, most PM motors
have bolt holes in the end of the motor, if there isn't any holes, mount a
plate on the 1\2 of the
blower housing, drill a clearance hole, and mount the motor, slip on the fan
blade, tighten the set screw,
the clearances are tight so hand revolve the blade to see if it will clear,
then place the other1/2 blower housing on the unit,
hand revolve again, for clearance, and bolt the top half on. Build a small
support device to hold the motor 
up , horz, hook up your hose to the forge, fire it up and try out the
vaiable speed  control. Once you have used 
it you will never go back to hand cranking. I know hand cranking has a lot
of meaning to a lot of people, but....
ENJOY!

Mike Wolfe

---

From: Russell McCrackin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 11:25:24 -0700 (PDT)

At 09:22 AM 6/9/96 -0400, you wrote:
>  -  -  (snip)  -  - Once you have used 

Must dissagree with you Mike.  There are LOTS of squirrel cage blowers
out there just waiting for you.  Every junked clothes drier has one, 
and they are cheap.  I have picked up large blowers with good
bearings and constant speed motor for as little as 75 cents.  And why
the variable speed motor.  They are not cheap, and there are other ways
of controlling the blast.

Better and cheaper is to put a sliding or pivoting shutter over the intake
of the blower.  Put the head of a small bolt on the inside of the cage,
shaft sticking out, put on a nut to hold it there.  A scrap of sheet metal
big enough to cover the air inlet of the blower cage with a hole for the
bolt, then 2 more nuts (one nut locks the other in position).  When you want
lots of air for the fire, open the shutter.  When you take a hot piece to
the anvil, slid the shutter closed.  There will be enough air leakage to
keep the fire going, but not enough to burn any steel still in the forge.

The number of used squirrel cage blowers seems to be unlimited, while
the number of good used Champion blowers is very limited.  Here on the West
Coast they run $75 and up, 'way up with good bearings.  With the increasing 
number of new Smiths looking for blowers it is a shame to deprive them of the
learning they get when using a hand cranked blower to control the forge.
It is hard to burn up a piece of steel with a hand cranker when you turn 
your back on it going to the anvil, but sure is easy with a powered blower.

Rusty

at Rusty Forge

Get it hot and hit it hard.

Never use force, get a bigger hammer.

---
 [email-masked]

---

From: "David C. Hufford" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 20:49:38 -0400 (EDT)

If you're a real home-brew type, get David Gingery's book titled, How to 
Design and Build Centrifugal Fans for the Home Shop (Lindsay 
Publications, 1987, ISBN 0-917914-60-0, $9.95).  You can build any size 
blower you need for the forge, or for a dust collection system.  Neat 
little book.

D.C. Hufford

---

From: mike wolfe <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 20:55:19 -0400

Rusty:
I can agree,  there is a limited number of 400's,  but they were all selling for
40.00 and 50.00 at the IBA con last week and at SOFA last sept.
The 400  moves  a lot more air then  many squirral cage blowers,
and squrral cage blowers need 3400 rpm direct drive, the 1725  works ok
with a gas forge,  but  doesn't have enough punch for a coal forge, or you 
have to use pullys and V belts. Also there are problems with blocking air on 
the intake on squirral cage motor, if it is well used, it will over heat
very easy.
There are a ton of 400's out there , that the only working part is the blower
housing and fan blade, the rest of the unit are usually rusted shut, in fact the
two blowers that I built with PM motors,   were from trashed 400's that I
bought for 10.00 ea. I have used both systems and I realy like the feel of the
varispeed over the gate system.
Mike Wolfe

---

From: [email-masked] (fred clark)
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:57:03 -0400

>>1725rpm works ok,  but other sizes and speeds will work,  pull the  blower

(snip)
>Never use force, get a bigger hammer.

Bad bearings and all, I don't think I'd trade my hand-cranked blower for
anybody's electric do-dad. I manage to burn up enough the way it is,
without any electric help.

Fred

---

From: Mike Linn <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 17:32 EDT

My father has an old circus forge with a Champion 400 blower, he
added an electric squirrel cage from Grainger that blows directly through
the intake of the 400. The nice thing about this set up is that when you
lose power due to storms, ice etc. you still can work with the hand crank.
You need a slightly beefier squirrel cage to overcome the resistance of the
400s' blades, but otherwise works great.

mike
                                    _///_
                                   /(o o)\
===============================o000o=(_)=o000o====
               Michael Linn 
            Artisan Blacksmith
              AFC Web Master
 http://www.the-matrix.com/afc/index.html
==================================================
Smile, it makes people wonder what you've been up to.

---

From: Mike Linn <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 17:37 EDT

Another question along this line, I aquired a champion blower for an
air raid siren a while back but the gear ratio and the noise is more than I
can handle. Will the motor and belt trick with the gearbox removed work for
this also????

mike
                                    _///_
                                   /(o o)\

---

From: [email-masked] (Clay Spencer)
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:47:18 -0400

>can handle. Will the motor and belt trick with the gearbox removed work for
Mike
What is the diameter?
If the blades are 8" or9" diameter, you can mount the blades on the 1750
rpm motor shaft. Make an angle bracket and mount to the side of the blower.
I've used several blowers this way and they work well.
Clay