Subject: Historically correct clothing

From: "Dave Einhorn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:08:27 EDT

Does anyone know when the Derby hat was invented?  I need to 
know because the Museum where I plan to be at the forge this 
comming Sunday, is inclusive of developements up to the
year 1880.
   Dave Einhorn                    
   [email-masked]

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From: "Let's see what's out there, engage! x6821" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:48:27 -0500 (CDT)

>   [email-masked]       

Hi Dave,

According to the information I found at
http://noontide.lick.pvt.k12.ca.us/Lick/courses/intro/froshhist/hatfash.html

"... In 1850, the bowler, known as the derby in th United States, was
introduced. The softfelt hat became popular in the United States next, in the
last quarter of the century."

Interesting site...

Carmine Forte
[email-masked]

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From: Rich Rooney <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:05:04 -0400

Dave,

I'm afraid that the Derby hat was first *named* ,at least, in 1888.
I got this from the Oxford Univeral Dictionay, which lists the first
date of the word's usage.  It could have been made before it was named
Derby, however.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:34:06 -0400

By whatever name, the derby/bowler has been popular in the U.S. since at
least the 1870's (a good source is engravings from old newspaper files).
 I've seen them in use in photos of workmen up to the 1920's.  I have been
researching this question also; the living history museum blacksmith shop I
demonstrate in portrays about 1903, and the bowler is just right for that
era.   Now if I could just find one I can afford...

Eric

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From: Dave <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 08:59:37 -0500

>   [email-masked]       

I don't have a specific date for you, but if I recal correctly it is a post
Civil War style.  The Director of Interpretation at the park where I work
can be a bit extreme at times when it comes to historically correct
clothing, and I wear my derby in the forge everyday as an 1871 blacksmith.
So, wear it with pride (blacksmiths were very proud of their hats, and wore
them at the forge with distinction).

Another hat you might be interested in is a felt, short-crowned top hat
(about a 4-5" crown).  But, personally, I prefer the Derby.

What ever you do, I wuldn't recommend wearing a straw Boater around the
forge, you could become bald earlier than nature intended.  <grin>

Dave Brown
Heritage 'Smithing
Heritage Hill State Historical Park
Green Bay, WI

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From: Dave <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 08:59:48 -0500

>last quarter of the century."

Just a minor correction.  There is a distinct difference between Bowler's
and Derby's.  The Bowler has a shorter crown than the Derby, and the brim is
shaped a bit differently.  The Bowler is an English style, while the Derby
is an American variant.  Or, so I was told someone at by Stetson Hat Company
back when they were still in Danbury, CT (otherwise known as "Hat City USA")

Dave Brown
Heritage 'Smithing

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From: Dave <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 08:59:53 -0500

>era.   Now if I could just find one I can afford...

A good source for high quality wool felt (and also rabbit felt up to XXXX
bever quality) is the Stetson Factory Outlet Store in Brookfield, CT.  They
will do mail order.  This is the only Stetson outlet store left in the U.S.
Chet, the man who runs it, is a retired hatter and knows his stuff.  I don't
have the phone number, but try information and they'll get it for you.

Dave Brown
Heritage 'Smithing