Subject: Making a pattern welded knife blade from cable - report & questions

From: "Joe B. McGlynn (415) 855-5707" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 09:53:49 -0800 (PST)

Hi all,

I am pretty new to hot working metal, nonetheless I decided to fool around with
making "Damascus steel" this past weekend.  I once saw a guy (Ray Johnson,
knifesmith at Silver Dollar City) make what he called "K-Mart Damascus" using
structural steel cable, forged into a blade.  His theory was that the cable was
comprised of high and low carbon steel fibres, just the right ingrediants for
Damascus (I think...).  I don't have a forge set up yet so I used a rosebud tip
on my oxy-acetylene torch and a steel chamber to heas a couple of inches at a
time.  I should have a coal forge set up this week.

I used some cable from the hardware store, about 1/2" in diamater.  There was
some sort of fiber center in the cable, which burned out easily enough.  

Q # 1:  How can I tell if the cable I bought (any cable for that matter) is
actually both high and low carbon steel strands?

I heated it to a bright red/orange, sprinkled it with borax flux and bashed it
into a square section.  Then I re-heated it and hammered it into a flat.  At
this point I had good fusion throughout the section.

Q # 2:  When I sprinkled the borax flux on the steel it "foamed" or puffed up. 
I am guessing that this means that the flux I have has water in it (hydrated?).
 It seemed to work OK other than this strange behavior.  Is this normal?

Since I was starting with 1/2" cable there wasn't enough mass for the width of
blade I wanted so I  stacked together three sections and forge welded them
together.  Then I drew it out into a decent knife shape.  Decent considering
the only tools I had were a 5 pound sledge and a small claw hammer and a
section of I beam for an anvil.  Man does that thing RING!

I let the blank air cool then attacked it with files and sanders to clean it
up.  The surface was not as smooth as I would have liked and I need some more
practice (and tools) for grinding.  Once I was satisfied with the shape of the
knife I heated it cherry red and quenched it in water.

Q # 3:  Should I have quenched in oil?  What kind?  Is oil less severe of a
quench?  What kind of oil do you like?

Of course the blade warped.  Before I could engage my brain I gave it a light
tap of the hammer to take the bow out of the blade.  Of course it promptly
snapped in half.  Damn.

I TIG'd it back together, hot worked it again, quenched it again and tempered
the back of the blade.  It seems pretty springy now, although the repaired area
is still visable.  I also spotted a couple of cracks at the leading edge of the
blade, I don't know if these are from water quenching, quenching twice, hitting
it while it was brittle or what.

All in all it was fun and an interesting experiment.  I think I will still etch
the blade to see the pattern, although the blade is ruined.

Q # 4:  Anyone have any pointers for the next time I do this (soon)?

Joe "hot metal is HOT" McGlynn

---

From: [email-masked] (Raymond Coon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 11:15:07 -0800

>making "Damascus steel" this past weekend.    I don't have a forge set up
yet so I used a rosebud tip on my oxy-acetylene torch and a steel chamber to
heas a couple of inches at a time.  I should have a coal forge set up this week.

Snip, snip

I have had exactly no luck doing this with coal.  I use a propane forge.
Plans available from Wayne Goddard.  (E-mail me for address if wanted
([email-masked])).

I'll give you what I have learned from Wayne Goddard and Dr. H's books (some
of each).  Use large cable, 5/8 to 1 inch or more depending on your arm.
There are some wire ropes (cable is an electrical conductor) that have
different steels mixed in them, but not all.  The larger sizes are for HEAVY
loads and seem more likely to have higher carbon steels.  You probably
already know to avoid galvanized and other coated materials.  Guy wire is
probably not good. The current thinking about the difference in metals is
that the outer layer of each wire de-carburizes.  This is one reason to use
large wire-rope with large strands.  Small wires decarburize so much
(surface area to mass) that you don't have much carbon left by the time you
are done.
 
>actually both high and low carbon steel strands?
You can test by bringing to critical temp and quenching.  If the wires break
off easily when tapped, it is probably carbon steel.  Don't use the wire
rope with fiber core, it only makes a mess.

>this point I had good fusion throughout the section.

I have had best luck by working the piece round until it welds pretty good,
and then working it flat.  I don't use a very heavy hammer at first or it
just splays out.
> It seemed to work OK other than this strange behavior.  Is this normal?

I think that it is normal, but you may have better luck with anhydrous borax.
>quench?  What kind of oil do you like?

Probably should have used warm oil.   Then go to brine, and plain water last.
Use water only if you can't harden with oil.

>the blade to see the pattern, although the blade is ruined.

A very good etchant is ferric chloride etching solution (Get it at Radio
Shack) in 1 to 2 or 3 solution with water.
>Joe "hot metal is HOT" McGlynn
I have found this to be so much fun that I don't even consider stock
reduction blades anymore.

Good luck

R. Coon

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From: "John W. Pollins, III" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 07:36:26 -0500 (EST)

At 06:21 PM 3/26/96 -0600, you wrote:
>You can forge weld that chrome cable with Hi-Alloy No.7. Comes in powder 
>form Tom
>
What is Hi-Alloy No.7? A flux?
        Are you telling me I can now incorporate high chrome & cobalt alloys
into my regular billets in an oxygen atmosphere?
        I want it. Where do I get this magic flux?
        When I talked to him last about chrome and cobalt stainless, Daryl
Meier thought it might be accomplished by arc welding plates over the
sandwich sides and ends of a really ground clean billet (drill a little hole
so it wont explode) or pack the clean billet in clay in a coffee can and
bake the clay 1st to protect against atmosphere Oxygen then make your 1st
weld blind thru can clay and all. Jay B_Kidwell thinks the first weld under
a press or hydraulic hammer would improve the chances of a weld. It's been
too cold to try.
This magic stuff would be wounderful.

                        Pollins

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 18:12:59 CST

On Tue, 26 Mar 96 16:32 EST  Mike Linn wrote:

>
>>Mike,
>>
>>Just curious -- why do you call this "Faux Damascus"?
>>
>>Joe McGlynn
>>
>Joe,
>        Faux - French word = false, artificial, synthetic.
>
>zat clear it up. I came up with it from faux fur used on coats.
>
>mike
>

Since we seem to love definitions so much around here.  Unless it is 
Wootz steel, wouldn't it all be "Faux Damascus?"  Knifemakers and the 
public commonly refer to pattern welded steel as Damascus (I know I do).  
But most of the muckity mucks call it either "pattern welded" or 
"Mechanical Damascus."

My, don't we love to split hairs   ;-)
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Name: Franklyn D. Garland        A Hobby Is Hard work
E-mail: [email-masked]          You wouldn't Do For
Date: 03/27/96                     A Living.

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