Subject: Wanted armor piercing tung/carbide

From: [email-masked] (MR WILLIAM A HOCHELLA)
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 15:14:51, -0500

To All,
Tungsten armor penetraters are just that, solid tungsten. They are 
very high speed projectiles launched with a sabot. They work because 
they are hard and dense. They are made by powder metallurgical 
techniques. Trust me, you don't have a forge that get hot enough to 
forge this stuff. 
The 82 W - 18 Co sounds like 82% tungsten carbide and 18% cobalt 
binder. Once again this is a powder product and it has limited 
forgability.
Depleted urainium is spent fuel, usually urainium oxide, that has 
been reduced back to metallic form. It has the tensile properties of 
low carbon steel but it is not very ductile. The usefulness is 
because of its density. It is also used as armor on the M-1 battle 
tank. I don't think that it is available on the open market. Try your 
local militia.

Hochewa

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From: [email-masked] (MR WILLIAM A HOCHELLA)
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 15:21:12, -0500

To All,
4140 shaft material is about Rc 40. 1080, 1095 or W-1 will harden to 
about Rc 68.

Hochewa

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From: [email-masked] (MR WILLIAM A HOCHELLA)
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 15:18:10, -0500

To All,
"Delpeted" uranium is no longer hot enough to be used as fuel. It 
still will make a gieger counter sing loudly. The residiual 
radioactivity is not enough to zap you outright but don't carry a 
piece around in your pocket.

Hochewa

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From: "daryl (d.a.) bender" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 16:16:00 -0400 [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.121:04.06.96.20.16.47]

This is getting a bit off topic but since you brought it up;

If depleted uranium is "used as armor on the M-1 battle tank" AND "it 
still will make a gieger counter sing loudly" wouldn't an M1 driver 
face the same danger as one who carried a piece around in his pocket?

Daryl

In message "Wanted armor piercing tung/carbide", 
[email-masked] writes:

It is also used as armor on the M-1 battle 

To All,

Hochewa

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From: [email-masked] (George Dixon)
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 18:55:51 -0400

Uri did a great demo, he'll be back for more in two years at the ABANA
Conferance in 1998
G Dixon

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From: [email-masked] (Dan Hughes)
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 08:19:55 -0400

>piece around in your pocket.
Uranium as it is found in nature consists of 99.2745% uranium isotope with
mass # 238 and 0.720% uranium isotope mass number 235. Uranium 235 is most
easily fissionable with thermal energy neutrons to create energy. Natural
uranium is processed to produce uranium with an increase in the percentage
of U-235. The result is material that is "enriched" uranium (increased
percentage of U-235) and  material that is "depleted" uranium (decreased
percentage of U-235). Enriched uranium can vary in percentage of U-235
depending on its intended use. Natural (.72%) up to 5% enriched is used in
commercial power reactors. Usually less than 20% but up to 90+% enriched
uranium is used in research reactors. Reactors used in navy ships is 90+%
enriched. Uranium weapons use enriched uranium with greater than 93% U-235.

Depleted uranium is radioactive with a half-life of 4.5 billion years. That
means that one half of the 235 will decay to Thorium 232 every 4.5 billion
years. The decay particles emitted are alpha particles and gammas. The
alpha particles are stopped by as little as a sheet of paper, or the dead
layer of skin and therefore are not harmful unless they are emitted
internally. Uranium ingested will decay and the emitted alpha particles
will cause damage to tissue. Uranium is also a heavy metal and will poison
similar to lead. The gammas are equivalent to high energy X-rays and can
cause damage to tissue without ingesting it.
Uranium is not a material that should be used by people who don't know how
to handle radioactive material. Even if it would happen to be useful as a
material for punches the disadvantages of its use far outweighs its
advantages. If you want to have a dramatic demonstration of its
radioactivity find a piece (dish, plate , or bowl) of orange fiesta ware
which you can still find at garage sales, flea markets, or antique stores.
Take it to a health physicist at the hospital, university, or research lab.
Call first because it will set off their monitoring equipment when you
enter their facilities. The orange color comes from uranium nitrate.
Uranium is everywhere in the soil. Thorium 232 as mentioned above decays to
Radon 226. Radon is the radioactive gas that everyone is worried about in
houses.

Dan Hughes,
Penn State Univ.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 11:21:50 -0400

>face the same danger as one who carried a piece around in his pocket?

Yes, they would, but since when does the Army care about the long-term safety
of the troops?  It is far more important to get them to survive long enough
into the next battle to do their job.  The radioactivity of the depleted
uranium is lots lower than the non-depleted stuff, but why mess around?
 Cancer is no fun.

Pete Engle

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From: [email-masked] (Dan Hughes)
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:34:14 -0400

>uranium is lots lower than the non-depleted stuff, but why mess around?

This last statement is not strictly true. 1 gram of natural uranium will
decay at 12700 decays/sec and depleted at 12200 decays/sec which is not a
significant difference. 100% enriched uranium which most people can't have
access to and I wish no one had access to will decay at 78000 decays/sec.

Dan Hughes

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From: [email-masked] (MR WILLIAM A HOCHELLA)
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 22:05:37, -0500

To All,
How hot is depleted uraninium? Probably not much hotter than the 
granite that the Capital is made from. I would assume that most of 
the U235 has been chemically extracted. But ppm's are ppm's.
Enough said.

hochewa

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 18:31:52 -0400

In a message dated 96-07-05 22:11:31 EDT, you write:

> I would assume that most of 

The manufacturer claims that the fissionable U235 isotope has been depleted
by about two-thirds, leaving it significantly less radioactive that uranium
ore (as found in nature).

Schermerhorn

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From: "Franklyn Garland" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 16:29:32 +0000

On  4 Jul 96 at 18:55, George Dixon wrote <snip-snip>

> Uri did a great demo, he'll be back for more in two years at the
> ABANA Conferance in 1998 G Dixon
> 
> 
EXCELLENT!!!!!

I wasn't able to attend his demo (didn't know it was happening...) 
but I heard he was fantastic.

I am glad you Asheville boys are bringing him back!  I am also VERY 
glad that Asheville is on a plateau...................

=================================================
Franklyn D. Garland                         
The Celtic Knot Forge                       
[email-masked]                                 
http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
For Public PGP key, finger [email-masked]
=================================================

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 21:40:30 -0700 (PDT)

>Uri did a great demo, he'll be back for more in two years at the ABANA
Yeah, he did.  And I'm looking forward to '98.
George Watts
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (David Hoopes)
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 06:34:36 -0500

>mike wolfe wrote:
>> 
>> Yes I am looking for some battle field scrap.
>> Yes I am looking for some armor piercing tips.
>> Uri and his crew, were in from Israel and demonstrating at
>> ALFRED\ABANA, the making of hammers and they were
>> using these GREAT, slitting tools made of battle field
>> tungsten scrap. they were driving these tools through
>> 3 inch, sq. hammer stock steel, like butter and they did not
>> have to quench the tools, just let them air cool, they said
>> they were tips off armor piercing shells
>> 
>> I did talk to some one today who said the same thing , and
>> that was, the steel maybe 82tung-18colbalt and
>> SPENT URAINIUM,
>> Do you know were I can get this material??
>> Mike Wolfe
>
>
>Aren't you glad we don't live in a country where you can easily obtain 
>this stuff? I enjoyed watching Uri forge with Peter Ross' tools 
>(second, impromptu demo.) He used one of Peter's mild steel punches. 
>Belive his comment was "This tool is F***ed!"

I have not followed this discussion real well, but I am a bit surprised that
no one has pointed out that some shells are explosive.  Find one of these that
didn't go off and toss it into the forge, it will the last thing you forge for
awhile.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Hoopes
[email-masked]
Lenexa, Kansas (Near Kansas City, Mo)