Subject: Re: Fire Starting and shooting the breeze!

From: Dave <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:27:35 -0600

At 19:55 4/2/96 -0800, you wrote:
>>(Snip)

>. . .  So I start my forge with flint and steel. 

(snip)
>
>If any of you are interested, I can describe how to properly temper the steel,
>and how to make good char cloth.  But if I tell you, you have to promise not
>to beat me in a contest!!!!!
>
>Rusty
>
OK, Rusty, I'd like to know.  And, I promise not to enter any contests that
you're in.  Anyway, I'm a Civil War type, and not likely to be attending any
ronnyvoos soon.  :>))))

Dave

---

From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 07:43:24 -0500

On Apr 2, 10:27pm, Dave wrote:
> Subject: Re: Fire Starting and shooting the breeze!
>-- End of excerpt from Dave

Rusty,

Please post to the list. I'm interested. I work in a living history museum
recreating 1825 to 1850.

Mark

-- 
Dr. Mark E. Williams
Bldg N-159, Rm E-215
NASA/GSFC/WFF/EG&G
Wallops Island, VA 23337
804-824-1744
[email-masked]

I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member.
Grouch Marx

---

From: Dave B <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 06:11:42 -0500

I am looking for a source (or sources) of fireplace shovel blanks in a
variety of shapes.  Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

Dave B

---

From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 08:35:56 -0400

On May 22,  6:11am, Dave B wrote:
> Subject: Shovel blanks
Try Jere Kirkpatrick's Valley Forge and Welding, 800-367-5373

He's located in California, but his shovel blanks are nicely formed.

Mark

---

From: Dave B <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:11:16 -0500

At 12:37 5/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I assume many of us on TheForge list are also subscribed to the ArtMetal 
>list.   Those who are know of, and may have contributed to, the 
>establishment of a artist/craftperson profile page for the ArtMetal web 
>site.  I wonder if ye smiths would be interested in doing something 
>similar as a resource for the ABANA web site (I'm not speaking as any 
>official of ABANA, but as a member only).  I, for one, would like to 
>have access to a profile list of fellow smiths available as a resource 
>from ABANA.  Any comments?
>
>D.C. Hufford
>
>
>
I also subscribe to the Artmetal list and do like the profile idea.
Voluntary profiles also allow the submittor to control the information that
is available to other members, or can elect to remain in the shodows, so to
speak.  I find it interesting, if not helpful, to be able to get a better
picture of the various individuals that contribute to the lists.

Dave B

---

From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:14:27 -0400

On May 22,  1:11pm, Dave B wrote:
> Subject: Re: Blacksmiths' Profiles

I agree with both of you. I like the idea of a profile list. However, George
Dixon is a very busy person. Would someone volunteer to head this up? I can't
speak for George, but seems to me that he would be more in favor of this if he
didn't have to do all the work.

Mark Williams

---

From: Tom Vincent <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:41:17 -0500 (CDT)

Apart from the usual sources cited earlier in re: swage blocks, Francis 
Whitakers Cookbook has a fine jig/blank described on pg. 74. I didn't 
understand it myself, put one of my apprentices helped me through it and 
our blank works just fine now. Tom

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:38:43 -0700

Please let me add my endorsement to Jere's shovel blanks.  I have used 50 
plus of his blanks, and am about to order more.  With a little judicuous 
hammering and gentle grinding, the basic shape can be altered a little 
from set to set, if you are worried about two of your customers comparing 
notes.  On the other hand, if your handles and stands are unique, the 
last thing someone is going to notice is the shovel pan.  After doing the 
grinding, (carefully) re-fire the shiny edge with your torch, (Propane 
torch will do..) to re color it the same as the rest of the pan.
  My $0.02
     Bob

---

From: Jim McCarty <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:58:14 -0500

> > variety of shapes.  Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
A lot of folks have the Roger Lowrance swage blocks with the shovle 
blanks and I have heard many of them say they wish it wasn't there as 
it doesn't work right. At the Folk School I someone showed me how to 
use the form to its full advantage. To do it right you have to make a 
top tool that matches the profile. This person also had a guide 
screwed to the side of the block that mated with the handle on the top 
tool. Using this the shovel was made quicker than you can tell about 
it.

I like the looks of the Valley Forge blanks someone mentioned, and if 
you were into production this might be a good idea.
--Jim McCarty
Father Helias Forge
Taos, MO

---

From: Dave B <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 07:03:33 -0500

At 21:53 5/27/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi all...we're the Editors of The Rivet, which is the newsletter of the 
>Western Canadian Blacksmiths Guild and we received a query from one of 
>our members as follows:
>
>"...Do you have any information on women blacksmiths?  I want to volunteer 
>with a gentleman at in the old Forge at Fort Edmonton Park this summer
>but the volunteer co-ordinator said I couldn't because I was a woman...No 
>kidding!!!  She wasn't sure if women did such things back in those 
>days...from what I know, wives and daughters did whatever was required to 
>keep the business going..but she won't just take my word for it, so I 
>need some hard facts on blacksmithing and women."
>
>Anybody got anything to quote from that we can pass on to help her out?
>
>Thanks in advance for your help.  This may not be of interest to all so 
>you  can  e-mail us directly if you like instead of listing to the forge.
>
>
>Rick and Joan Dixon
>Dixon Forge
>G.S. 303, Box 18, R.R. #3
>Saskatoon, Sask.
>S7K 3J6
>
>(306)931-0813  
>
>
A good question.  I have a similar predicament at the Historical Park where
I 'smith (Heritage Hill Park, Green Bay, WI).  There is a young woman with
similar interests, and I think she would be good at it.  But the director of
interpretation says you wouldn't find a woman working in a blacksmith's
shop.  I tell her, Women weren't teamsters either, but I wouldn't want to
tell that to Calamity Jane.

Please post to the group, or copy me on any information in this direction.
Reference sources would be a great help.

Dave B

---

From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 09:07:59 -0400

On May 28,  7:03am, Dave B wrote:
> Subject: Re: Women Blacksmiths

As far as I have been able to find out (all of this info was anecdotal), there
were very few female blacksmiths prior to WW I. When child labor laws were
non-existent and eight-year olds were apprenticed to learn a trade, the bulk of
the blacksmiths were male. The only exceptions may have been (1) the blacksmith
had a daughter who was interested (especially if the blacksmith had no sons),
or (2) A good friend of the blacksmith had a daughter who hung around the
forge. In any case, female blacksmiths were rare.

The Furnace Town Historic site attempts to display life 1825 to 1850 when the
blast furnace was working. We do not discourage anyone from demonstrating
because we've found it difficult to find persons willing to demonstrate. It's
good that you have enough demonstrators to not be in this sort of bind.

I'll ask the museum curator for references of female blacksmiths. When or if I
get them, I'll post to the server.

Mark

---

From: Dave B <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 14:41:14 -0500

>On May 28,  7:03am, Dave B wrote:
SNIP
>> tell that to Calamity Jane.
SNIP

>> Dave B
SNIP
>get them, I'll post to the server.

SNIP

Mark - Where is Furnace Town?

Heritage Hill is a living history park, and anyone demonstrating must be
representative of a demontrable actuallity.  In otherwords, if you can't
provide documentation that such-and-such actually happened, or was made in a
particular way, then you can't do it.  It is a 'first person' place, and
when I am working, everything I do or say must be 1871.  We have a  three
other 'smith's that volunteer on occasion, and 'demonstrate' is a word that
applies to them.  In my case, I am a working 'smith and on the payroll.  I
make things, whether there is a visitor there or not.  What I'd like to find
is a good reliable striker/apprentice who really wants to learn the craft.
An historical interest wouldn't hurt.

Dave B

---

From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 07:11:27 -0400

> An historical interest wouldn't hurt.

Dave,

Furnace Town is located just outside Snow Hill, Maryland on the Eastern Shore.
The Eastern Shore is that swath of land that separates the Chesapeake Bay from
the Atlantic Ocean. The site is roughly 2.5 hours from both Washington, DC anf
Baltimore, MD. We have the earliest remaining example of a blast furnace that
used the hot-blast process on the east coast. The shop is non-electric and uses
tools and equipment that would have been used between 1825 and 1850.

If you have any other questions, drop me a line.

Mark

---

From: Dave <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:23:06 -0500

At 11:34 PM 8/5/96 EDT, you wrote:
>> The art show afficianados here have an attention span of about 7-8
>> minutes. Most will barely hang around long enough to see a leaf key
>> ring made. Maybe its my technique I dont know. I try to talk to the
>> crowd, and to explain what Im doing, but while Im getting a heat most
>> people wander off. I guess thay want action and dont want to see the
>> sweat.
>
>I haven't done any demos lately except for captive (but nevertheless
>very attentive) audiences. But for the general public, I think a large
>percentage have their perception knobs calibrated by television. If
>it's not "like tv", it's not important or interesting. Every 2
>seconds, *Somthing Happens* on tv -- dolly, zoom, fade, cut, sound
>over. Every two seconds.
>
>I'll jes stop there 'cause it's a 50k rant. :-)
>
>- Mike
>---
>Don't outlaw guns.
>How else are you going to shoot your tv?
>
>

Mike, it's worse than that.  Disneyland has had it's impact also.

One of the more frequently asked stupid questions that I get is:  "Is that
fire real?"

I also once overheard a father explaining to his son that it wasn't really
hot iron.  It was hollow plastic with batteries and a lightbulb to make it
glow red.  So, I put a nice bright orange piece against a board - instand
flame.  His response was to asked how I did that.

It takes all kinds, so they say.

Dave Brown
Heritage 'Smithing
Heritage Hill State Historical Park
Green Bay, WI

---

From: "Dr. Mark E. Williams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:53:17 -0400

On Aug 6,  8:23am, Dave wrote:
> Subject: Re: demonstrations

I do demos at Halloween at Furnace Town. Some youths didn't think the fire was
real or that the iron was hot. The fact that I was holding the iron in tongs
didn't seem to sink in. So I brought out a sparkler, white hot steel, and
touched it to a log with a large flame resulting. They jumped back about 3 feet
and didn't ask me to hand the iron to them anymore.

Too many spectacular movie effects to take anything seriously.

Mark

---

From: isalmon <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 21:52:58 -0700

Dave wrote:
> 
> A couple of months ago, before I trashed my un-backed-up harddrive, there
> were several posts about some good coal suppliers with reasonable bag
> prices.  I saved all this stuff, but it dissappeared when the HD went south
> when I trashed the drive.
> 
> If anyone still has copy of any of the coal supplier info, I would
> appreciated it if you coule e-mail it to me, or repost the info.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave Brown
> Heritage 'Smithing

I live in an area where they mine the kind of coal you are looking
for.  The best quality I have found is from: 
        American Natural Resources
        PO Box 304
        McHenry, MD 21541-0304
        301-387-0327
Shipped UPS prices are:  (plus shipping)
        50 lbs Boxes $6.50
        100 lbs Boxes $12.25
        150 lbs Boxes $17.25
      Bulk shippment of 50 lbs bags on pallets of 40 bags @ $4.75 per bag
      or truck load of up to 22 tons per truck.  For info on bulk ship
      call George Stanya personally between 7 PM and 9 PM EST.
      Above prices do not include shipping.

---

From: "Mark E. Williams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 09:50:46 -0400

On Aug 14,  7:42am, Dave wrote:
> Subject: Coal suppliers

The current coal/coke suppliers list  is attached.

Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, lest ye deceive yourselves.
New Testament, the Bible

    ABC Coke- Division of Drummond Company Inc.
    Tarrant Coke Sales Office 
    Tarrant City, AL
    205-849-1300
    Coke Processors for Drummond Coal Company. Usually sell box car
    loads but call and ask.

    American Natural Resources
    301-387-0327
    Blacksmith coal. Contact George Stany.

    Anthracite Industries
    Sunbury, PA 17801
    717-286-2176
    717-286-2329  fax
    Source for coke.

    Bradford Coal Company, Inc.
    P.O.Box 368
    Bigler, PA 16825
    814-342-0529
    Blacksmith coal. Contact Terry Swanson.

    Nick Brumder
    Liberty Forge
    40128 Industrial Park Circle
    Georgetown, TX 78626
    512-869-2830
    Sells blacksmithing coke.

    City Coal Yard
    116 North Depot Street
    Brazil, IN 47834
    812-448-8128
    Excellent blacksmith coal. Pocahantas #3 washed from West Virginia.
    Contact David Wise.

    Coalesce
    P.O. Box 7701
    South Lake Tahoe, CA 96158
    916-544-0428
    Source of excellent blacksmithing coal. High BTU value, low ash &
    sulphur. Cokes well.

    Cumberland Elkhorn Coal & Coke
    950 Swan Street
    Louisville, KY 40204
    502-589-5300
    Source of excellent blacksmithing coal in bulk or by the bag.
    The coal is washed, is low in ash, produces little clinker, and
    they will ship by truck.

    Cummings-Moore Graphite Co.
    Detroit, MI 48209
    313-841-1615
    313-841-4880  fax
    Source for coke.

    Euclid Builders Supply
    1400 Chardon Road just off I-90
    Euclid, OH
    216-531-1400
    Source of Pocahontas Slack coal.

    G & B Oil Co., Inc 
    410 E. 2nd St.
    Winston-Salem, NC 27101
    910-722-2024
    Source of blacksmith coal. Will not ship.

    Graphite Sales Inc.
    Chagrin Falls, OH 44022
    800-321-4147
    216-543-5183  fax
    Source for coke.

    Greenmount Fuel Company
    RT 30
    Manchester, MD 21102
    410-374-4473
    Fair to good quality blacksmithing coal. 

    Greystar/EA Marketing
    2515 Pawnee Village Road
    Tarrant AL
    205-849-2236
    Source for coke.

    Haines Holt
    Federalsburg Coal
    Federalsburg, MD 
    410-754-5244
    Good quality blacksmith coal. Source:North-central PA.

    Hickman, Williams Detroit Processing Division
    7819 W. Jefferson
    River Rouge, MI 48209-2857
    313-841-2901
    Suppliers of metallurgic coke in small quantities. Ask for Bob
    Martin.

    Koenig Fuel Supply
    Detroit, MI
    313-368-1870
    Source of Pocahontas Slack coal.

    National Coal Company
    43 Cresent Street
    Worcester, MA 01605
    508-752-7468
    800-675-7468
    Source of blacksmithing coal. Contact John Alicandro.

    Phoenix Coal Sales, Inc.
    310 S Scraper St 
    P.O. Box 498
    Vinita, OK 74301
    918-256-7873
    918-256-7874
    Will sell coal by 50 lb bag or in bulk. Call for latest price.
    However, by bag is roughly four times the bulk price.

    Paul Pierce Autobody and Powderly Coal Company
    1924 Jefferson Avenue S.W.
    Birmingham, Alabama 35211
    205-925-3453
    205-925-6877
    Source of blacksmith or metallurgical coal-high BTUs, low sulphur 
    low ash. Call for price. Will ship anywhere.

    Reading Anthracite Co.
    Pottsville, PA 17901
    717-622-5150
    717-622-2612  fax
    Source for coke.
    
    Reiss Coal Co.
    111 W. Mason St.
    Green Bay, WI  54303-1573
    414-436-7600
    Good blacksmithing coal, either by the bag or in bulk. Call for
    price.

    Skei Coal & Wood
    Box 394
    639 Lincoln Way
    Ames, IA 50010
    515-232-4474
    Suppliers of blacksmith coal.

    H. M. Stevens
    10749 150th Street
    Edmonton, AB
    CANADA
    403-389-2137
    Supplier of blacksmith coal.

    Streat Fuel Company
    800 Erie Street
    Flint, MI 48507
    810-468-2911
    Coal and coke sales.

---

From: "Dave B." <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:06:58 -0600

At 11:02 PM 11/26/96 -0600, you wrote:
>At 07:55 PM 11/24/96 -0900, you wrote:
>
>>My thermometer said -10 this morning, a bit brisk, I almost had to zip
>>my jacket on the way to the coffee shop.
>>Frosty
>>-- 
>>It was -16 here and I live is Southern Minnesota.>
>
>
>

We're having a heat wave, it's +2 here this morning.  :>))

Dave Brown
Heritage 'Smithing

---

From: "Mark E. Williams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:31:51 -0500

On Nov 27,  7:06am, Dave B. wrote:
> Subject: Re: cold weather (YAK)

I guess it's what you're used to. This am it was +34 with a wind chill of +18.
Several people around here (the Delmarva pennisula) think an ice age is coming
because it's sooooo cold so early.

Mark

James 1:22

---

From: [email-masked] (Frost, Jerry)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:22:45 -0900

> because it's sooooo cold so early.
BINGO Mark!

Something folks that haven't experienced cold country don't realize is,
chill. It has less to do with absolute temperature than humidity and
wind. +34f and +18 chill facter is worse than sub-zero, it's impossible
to dress for. More people die at temps between +60 and +20 than do at
sub-zero temps. -30 is easy to dress for, you need less than you might
think to be comfortable, especially if there's no wind.

The numbers mean nothing, it's what you feel that counts. Anything over
85, that's +85 ;) and I don't sweat, I render. Personally I prefer it
cool. Er, hmmm, I guess THAT'S obvious.

Stay warm all,
	Frosty
-- 
If it ain't forged
It ain't real
wrought iron is
The FROSTWORKS

---

From: Dwight Dewey <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 10:24:59 -0800

> cool. Er, hmmm, I guess THAT'S obvious.
Well folks, I hope that you all had a wonderful turkey day. I know what
it is to have cold weather. I was born and raised in Michigan. The
problem I have here is not the winter but the summer. My forge is
outside with just a sun shade covering my work area. I like it cool to
work but during the summer it has been a real bear. I have been working
when it was 105 deg and some shade. three quarts of gator-aid for four
hours of work and a couple of 52 oz pepsi's to go along with it. I might
have to put on a long shirt now because it gets cool at night. somewhere
in the low 60's. grin

  Well I have a question for all and need an answer if possible.

Is it possible to motorize a treadle hammer so that you could regulate
the blows like a large power hammer?  I don't have the space or money to
get a power hammer and I have two bad knees. I have an idea but don't
know if it would work.  A electric motor with a clutch and foot pedal. 
I think it might work but I don't know. Any help would be appericated.

Thanks

Ike 
Pan's Forge in the desert.

---

From: Lee Marshall <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 12:35:28 -0800

Mark E. Williams wrote:

> because it's sooooo cold so early.

This is starting to sound like the verse from the incredibly funny song
about the logger who sirred his coffee with his thumb, and drove his
whiskers back through his cheeks and bit them off inside. I don't
remember the lyrics, but is someone remembers tham and would care to
post them, I believe that they would be appreciated by all.
Lee Marshall
Bonny Doon Engineering     http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com

---

From: jack yates <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 01:39:09 -0800

> Bonny Doon Engineering     http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com

...I can't remember enough of the words to it to come up with the whole 
thing, but I *may* have it in my Alan Lomax book...I'll look and e-mail 
it to you if I do...got a record of it somewhere, gawd knows where..

			Jack

---

From: Lee Marshall <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 10:09:22 -0800

jack yates wrote:

> > about the logger who sirred his coffee with his thumb,

> ...got a record of it somewhere, gawd knows where..
> 
I'm sure that it would be much appreciated by all. Good luck in finding
it.
-- 
Lee Marshall
Bonny Doon Engineering     http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com

---

From: "Dave B." <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:25:29 -0600

At 02:17 AM 1/16/97 EST, you wrote:
>
>
>
>On Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:39:46 -0600 "Dave B." <[email-masked]> writes:
>>At 12:23 AM 1/15/97 EST, you wrote:
>
>>>On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:07:11 -0500 (EST) [email-masked] writes:
>>>>Dave,
>>>>What are you paying for 1/2 1018cold rolled. 
>
>>>>marc3
>>>>Marc of the Hammer
>>>>
>>>must be the other Dave, i don't have occasion 
>>>to use cold rolled....and would have a 150mile
>>>round trip if i wanted any...........dave........
>>>
>>>Dave Mudge ~ [email-masked]
>
>
>>What other Dave.  I'm Dave, you must be an imposter.  I can't believe
>>someone else has the same name as me.  <grin>
>
>>Dave Brown
>>Heritage 'Smithing
>Ohhh-no, it's you who are the imposter,, my momma named me Dave
>back in '49, so i know it's true. i'm the REAL Dave......    :-)
>Dave Mudge ~ [email-masked]
>
>

Ah-ha!  He admits to being the true imposter.  I looked at my birth
certificate and my mommy and daddy named me Dave first, way back in '45.
So there!.

Dave Brown
Heritage 'Smithing

---

From: "Mark E. Williams" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:56:23 -0500

On Jan 16,  2:25pm, Dave B. wrote:
> Subject: Re: metal site - YAK

The original Dave is biblical and royalty to boot. He predates both of you by a
few years.

Mark

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:53:06 EST

>Heritage 'Smithing
oh yea!, well in my town they named a street after me...... :-)
.....except they got the spelling all confused........  :-0
......................" AVE. D "............................ ;-)

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:53:06 EST

>The original Dave is biblical and royalty to boot. He predates both of 
yes, i know,..........he was my uncle! .....
.....good old uncle Dave....... :-)
Dave Mudge ~ [email-masked]

---

From: jack yates <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:12:37 -0800

Dave B. wrote:
>There is no doubt..it's winter-time and to cold to work in the 
smithy.....{snrk}...

jack