Subject: Re: Damnbronzecuss/Ni and steel

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:29:41 -0400

all you have to do is press the two together, like the old fashioned forge
brazing done years and years ago...when at about the liquidus temp of of the
bronze alloy you are using...It really isn't all that great for a blade, but
it does look a bit strange...

It's not hard to do...just takes some clean surfaces and a little experience.
 Haven't made any in a while as working time is very limited due to the temp
differences between the bronze and the iron..

As far as nickle and steel goes, well I hate to say this as this may sound
like bragging but Daryl Meir and I "pioneered" using this material in pattern
welding some oh, 20 years ago???  It welds like glue and boy does it ever
make a brilliant pattern

JP Hrisoulas

---

From: [email-masked] (Katana ---/-----------)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 02:38:33 GMT

>it does look a bit strange... 
Are we talking the mekume press concept here? Or can I just hammer them a
little when I see the sparks from the steel? I know it's not that great for
a blade, but Drea wants one and I appreciate the challenge involved. She's
been asking for years so I need to get it going. 
 
>differences between the bronze and the iron.. 
Would it help to have a higher carbon steel that should weld at a lower
temp than mild steel, or should this be the other way around? 

>welding some oh, 20 years ago???  It welds like glue and boy does it ever 
 
Ya - I showed you the one I made, made because of what you taught me. I
gotta get a gas forge, I'm running out of oak charcoal. 
Keep smilin' 

               Bill Wyant 
   Bladesmith / Art Blacksmith 
Avalon Ironworks, Ft. Wayne, IN 
    [email-masked]

---

From: Hays/Cash <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:22:46 -0400

In the book The Complete Metalsmith, Tim McCreight described a similar
technique for making mokome-gane.  Only he suggested layering solder between
the laminates and gently heating with a torch.  In this way you only have to
heat to the melting point of the Solder and can laminate any metal that will
take the solder (silver and gold?)  Admittedly this is a jewelry technique,
but it would produce a fantastic show blade.

>welding some oh, 20 years ago???  It welds like glue and boy does it ever
--Doug Hays & Penny Cash
  [email-masked]
  http://hayscash.com

---

From: [email-masked] (Katana ---/-----------)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 03:50:36 GMT

>but it would produce a fantastic show blade. 
I've got the book and I have also seen other writings on the subject. What
I gather is in mokume-gane there are two ways to do it; one the way you
describe, with solder and the press that produces a non-forgable version.
The other is a true welding technique. The soldering technique would come
apart if you did any true blade forging with it, due to the forging temp
being higher than the solder melting point. Fooey. It would be much easier
to do it this way, but the result wouldn't be the same. Jim Hrisoulas says
it can be done in another post here. I'm going to try it and post results
here, if I have bronze and not brass sheet. (It looks very red so I know
it's not yellow brass). Thanks for the info. Someday I'd like to do mokume
- I've even got the gold leaf that produces the purple color in the mokume.

-- 
               Bill Wyant

---

From: "John W. Pollins, III" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:39:55 -0400

>differences between the bronze and the iron..
Jim, 
        
        Which of the myriad Brass/bronzes do you recommend with steel?
        Can the billet be twist patterened?

                Pollins

---

From: "Franklyn Garland" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:27:36 +0000

On 25 Sep 96 at 16:29, [email-masked] wrote <snip-snip>

> all you have to do is press the two together, like the old fashioned
> forge brazing done years and years ago...when at about the liquidus
> temp of of the bronze alloy you are using...It really isn't all that
> great for a blade, but it does look a bit strange...
> 
So, this is Mokume-Game but with ferrous metal thrown in the mix?  
Sounds pretty straight forward...

=================================================
Franklyn D. Garland                         
The Celtic Knot Forge                       
[email-masked]                                 
http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
For Public PGP key, finger [email-masked]
=================================================

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 12:29:56 -0400

In a message dated 96-09-26 09:46:31 EDT, you write:

<< Jim, 

                 Pollins

Pollins:

I have used regular stautary bronze and the good old tin/copper mixes for
this..Jewler's bronze also works OK...

JP Hrisoulas