Subject: Re: (MAGIC) Quenching Solution- Resulting hardness

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:12:15 -0400

To All,
The hardness attainable in a steel that has been properly hardened is 100%
dependent on the carbon content first and foremost. Alloy additions that
impart special properties like hardenability, etc., actually reduce the as
quenched hardness as they tend to pull carbon out of the structure.
Quenchants affect the hardness by what products of austenite decomposition
are allowed to form during the quench.
Why is a brine, NaCl + H2O or NaOH + H2O, better than water? As the hot work
is put into the brine, the water turns to steam at the surface. This is why
water is not so good. With a brine, as the water turns to steam it leaves the
salt behind. The salt can not dehydrate fast enough, so the remaining water
in the salt not turns to steam "explosively", it bursts the steam envelope
and fresh solution reaches the surface and the process repeats. The more
solution you can keep on the surface the faster it will extract the heat. The
NaCl or NaOH apparently has another action that has been proposed. The reduce
the solubility of air in the water. As cool water gets warm, it expels air (
the bubbles inside the glass ).
Is the Magic soluton any better? Well it contains salt, NaCl, water, a
wetting agent and a detergent. The wetting agent and the detergent could keep
the surface "more wet" once the surface cools below 212*F, increasing the
cooling efficiency towards the end of the quench. At temperatures over that,
it may not help. I tend to discount reports of miracle cures. The additions
made to traditional brine may help, but magic is pushing it.

Hochewa

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From: Mike Dickie <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 96 06:55 PDT

At 09:12  07/11/96 -0400, you wrote:
> I tend to discount reports of miracle cures. The additions
>I don't mean to dispute someone who obviously has a great deal more
metalurgical knowledge than I, but using Robb's "Magic Soap Quench" I have
made a cold chisel out of about 8"of 3/8 sq. ordinary mild steel that has
cut completely through a bar of 1/2" sq. mild steel a couple of times
without showing any signs of wear or deformation of the cutting edge.  That
may not be magic, but it's damn close in my experience.

=============================================================================
D. M. (Mike) Dickie 
FLATLANDER FORGE
Box 85
Pennant, SK
Canada S0N 1X0

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:53:23 -0400

To All,
Atlantic 33 (?) only has .33% carbon and it will cut almost anything in the
hardened condition. 
I said that the hardness is a function of carbon content and the products of
austenite decomposition. Hardness max's out at about .6%. HRS is Rb70-80 (?).
 .3 carbon mild steel fully hard may be Rc 40. .6 carbon steel is Rc65. 
David Copperfield really didn't make the Statue of Liberty disappear. Rob's
quench may max out the properties of a piece of steel, but what if you try
the same thing with brine.

Hochewa

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 22:15:12 -0400

The fastest quench is a formula of one lb. of lye per gallon water.  Be
advised this is bad stuff and I burned my lungs with the steam.  It will give
a very hard quench, but Robb Gunter's solution is almost as good and is not
as dangerous.