Subject: Re: Descaling steel

From: Bill Hornaday <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 13:21:17 -0700

How does Sparex I or other descalers work as opposed to a sandblaster?
I don't have the $ right now for a sandblaster, and was thinking about other
alternatives.

Bill Hornaday

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From: Bradley Sanders <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 17:17:07 -0400

>I don't have the $ right now for a sandblaster, and was thinking about other
Hi Bill,

        Sparex (sodium bisulphate) works just fine. We stripped the entire
huge Neptune Sculpture (the three coins in a fountain)  in front of the
Library of Congress with it... contained all the leavings in the dry pool
below the fountain; neutralized it with baking soda, and commenced to
patinate it. The Patina went on just as well as it does with sandblasting.
Don't use it on lawn sculpture, though... burns the grass...:-)

                                                                Good luck,
Bradley

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From: George Ezell <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 18:04:21 -0500

David C. Hufford wrote:
> 
> Bill:
> 
> I've mostly used vinegar for descaling steel.  If you soak a piece
> overnight, the scale falls off and a light wire brushing will yield a
> bright, clean surface.  Sparex No 1 is for ferrous metals, Sparex No 2
> is for non-ferrous.  I've not used Sparex, but reportedly it works very
> well.
> 
> D.C. Hufford 
Hi,
Thanks for the information, never thought of using vinegar.  This is from the
forge list:
      I've been using the muriatic solution in a 5 gal lidded plastic bucket
with enough satisfaction that nothing said so far inspires me to try something
else. About 15 to 30 min. in the bucket before wire brushing or emery paper.
Get the 1st sealer coat on quick cause it'll rust quick  -- which looks pretty
good on forged roses, by the way -- After a muriatic bath I let one rust outside
for about 3 mths before sealing it with boiled linseed oil and it has a lovely
soft looking skin on the flower that I don't know how to achieve any other way.
        The mnemonic for Kenney's critical advise "pour the acid into the water"
is "AAA" Add Acid After.

Mr. Alex Pollins supplied that post.
	I use ferric chloride, same stuff I use to etch blades, simply because
I had some laying around.  Soak the peice for about 45 minutes and the scale comes
right off...this is the one part acid to 3 parts water mix. 
	My two cents worth,
	George Ezell

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From: [email-masked] (Dan Hughes)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 15:48:08 -0400

.
>        The mnemonic for Kenney's critical advise "pour the acid into the
This is extremely important. Mixing the acid and water (especially
concentrated acid) is an exothermic reaction (heat is released into the
solution). If the acid is poured into the water there is sufficient water
to absorb the heat without producing steam. Water has a lower boiling point
that the acid.  If the water is poured into the acid there may be
sufficient heat to flash the water to steam which could blow the acid all
over you and others. Wear eye protection! If vinegar or ferric chloride is
available use it.They are less hazardous.

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From: "Franklyn Garland" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 17:10:16 +0000

> Date:          Thu, 30 May 1996 13:21:17 -0700
> Reply-to:      [email-masked]
> From:          Bill Hornaday <[email-masked]>
> To:            [email-masked]
> Subject:       Re: Descaling steel

> I don't have the $ right now for a sandblaster, and was thinking about other

The finishes are comparable.  I use a lot of Sparex 
over the year.  It is an acid that disolves the scale and leaves the 
metal texture more or less unchanged.  "Sandblasting" is much more 
abrasive and will slightly alter the metals texture.  Quite frankly, 
if I need to descale a small piece (something that will fit into a 5 
gallon bucket) I throw it into the sparex.  Big items get sand/bead 
blasted or just power brushed.  It is a bit tough to toss a coffee 
table into a 5 gallon bucket  ;-)

=================================================
Franklyn D. Garland                         
The Celtic Knot Forge                       
[email-masked]                                 
http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/
For Public PGP key, finger [email-masked]
=================================================

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From: "Franklyn Garland" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 17:10:17 +0000

> patinate it.                            

Did you brush or spray on the Sparex?  I have never tried to use it 
this way and would be curious as to the method of application.

Thanks!!!

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From: Bradley Sanders <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 08:28:40 -0400

>this way and would be curious as to the method of application.

Hi Franklyn,

        We flowed the solution on with those big blonde brushes used for
concrete & stucco..from the bottom up (important), so as not to streak the
piece. Wear a good mask, especially if the piece is hot from the sun. The
fumes are toxic. Wear a face mask also.

    Good luck,

    Bradley

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From: Bill Hornaday <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 12:07:10 -0700

When you use Spaxex II (sodium bisulphate, What mixture of Spaxex and water
do you use.  Thanks in advance.

Bill Hornaday>

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From: Bradley Sanders <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:11:07 -0400

I haven't heard of any product like that... but it seems like it might not
penetrate very well....

                                        Bradley

At 05:12 AM 6/4/96 PDT, you wrote:
>At 08:28  06/03/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Hi Guys!
>I have used Sparex in some silversmithing, and the stuff I'm familiar is a
>powder that is mixed with water.  It therefore has the same viscosity and
>"clingability" as water.  Is it available in another form that will cling to
>a vertical surface?  I'm thinking along the lines of toilet bowl cleaners
>that are thick and viscous, which by the way will also clean metal.
>
>
>=============================================================================
>D. M. (Mike) Dickie 
>FLATLANDER FORGE
>Box 85
>Pennant, SK
>Canada S0N 1X0
>
>[email-masked]
>
>

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From: "Franklyn Garland" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 17:13:47 +0000

> fumes are toxic. Wear a face mask also.

I am going to give that a try....  Thanks for the Tip!!!!

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From: "Franklyn Garland" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 07:34:19 +0000

> do you use.  Thanks in advance.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but I just mix it acording to the 
directions on the can.  I think it is about a pound a dry mix per 
gallon, but I am not certain.  I have never tried to dilute it out 
beyond factory specs.

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From: "Franklyn Garland" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 07:34:19 +0000

> I haven't heard of any product like that... but it seems like it might not

Sparex #1 is a very well established material for "Pickling" steel.  
Penetration will all depend on the length of expousure, the freshness 
of the solution and the temperature of the solution or material to 
which it is being applied (heat increases reactivity).  If you are 
not careful, or if you are forgetful, it will pit the HELL out of 
whatever you are using it on.  That "last piece" in the bucket that I 
forgot about always looks interesting when I fish it out later.

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From: Bill Hornaday <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 09:48:04 -0700

At 07:34 AM 6/5/96 +0000, you wrote:
>o
Franklin, whatr is your source of Spareex I , I can only seem to find Sparex
II for nonferous.

Thanks,

Bill Hornaday>

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From: "Franklyn Garland" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 18:30:44 +0000

> Franklin, whatr is your source of Spareex I , I can only seem to find Sparex
I purchase it from a supplier in New York.  The company is called 
"Redco" and they deal in metal working (jewelry etc.) supply.  I 
don't have the address at hand, but the phone number is:

510-283-8665

Perhaps the Thomas Register would have the address available.

Hope this helps!!

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 10:10:19 -0400

To All,
Iron phosphate forms a dense, continous film on the surface of steels treated
with phosphoric acid. This film is just like the oxide film that forms on
stainless steel making it resistant to further corrosion. One of the reasons
that HRS rusts in the way that it does is because the oxide that forms is not
dense or continous. 

Hochewa