Subject: Water regulators

From: [email-masked] (David Jenkins)
Date: 6 Jul 1993 10:32:27 GMT

I have an off-beat question - is it possible to make a "pressure
regulator" for a non-compressable substance like water?  I want to
protect a small and weak tap from the full force of water impinging
on it.

I understand how gas regulators work, i.e. by balancing forces on 
both sides of a diaphragm (one side of which is spring-assisted) but
I'm not sure that such an arrangement would work here.

So-called technical experts (i.e. plumbers) have said "turn
down the stop-cock" but this only restricts the flow when the
tap is open; when the tap is shut it has to withstand the full 
pressure or "head of water".

The only certain way I can see at present is to incorporate a small
tank at a suitable height with a ballcock maintaining the water level,
but this would be inconvenient for me.

-- 

David Jenkins

* All incorrect spelling and faulty grammar is intentional.   *  
* Corrections are superfluous and will be ignored.  So there. *         
*

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 6 Jul 93 09:18:00 -0400

> protect a small and weak tap from the full force of water impinging

Pressure regulators for water service work exactly the same as those for gas
service.  They are available in bronze bodies with stainless steel wetted parts
internally.  For domestic service in the US, they can be had in 1/2" or 3/4"
screwed or sweat copper fittings.

We sure need them here, our home water pressure is over 150 psig!

---

From: [email-masked] (David Jenkins)
Date: 6 Jul 1993 14:32:11 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
[email-masked] writes:
|> In article <[email-masked]>,
|> [email-masked] (David Jenkins) writes:
|> > I have an off-beat question - is it possible to make a "pressure
|> > regulator" for a non-compressable substance like water?  I want to
|> > protect a small and weak tap from the full force of water
|> impinging
|> > on it.
|> > 
|> 
|> Pressure regulators for water service work exactly the same as those
|> for gas
|> service.  They are available in bronze bodies with stainless steel
|> wetted parts
|> internally.  For domestic service in the US, they can be had in 1/2"
|> or 3/4"
|> screwed or sweat copper fittings.
|> 
|> We sure need them here, our home water pressure is over 150 psig! 

I'm in a similar situation!  I've recently had my water system
re-vamped, so that both hot and cold systems are supplied direct from
the water main.  The water heater controls the flow of the hot supply, 
but all the taps in my house are complaining about the static
pressure.  Not to mention the banging pipes every time a cold tap is
opened or shut, or the washing machine intake valve shuts.   :-(

I haven't measured the pressure of the mains water, but it used to
feed a tank approx. 25 ft. above ground level, and I live on the
nearest thing to a hill (Suffolk's pretty flat).

I was thinking about building a small regulator for use in my
workshop, so that I wouldn't have to worry about polythene tube
(a.k.a. fuel pipe) popping off its connectors.

-- 

David Jenkins

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From: [email-masked] (Soren LaForce)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 17:47:00 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (David Jenkins) writes...
>In article <[email-masked]>,

stuff deleted

>opened or shut, or the washing machine intake valve shuts.   :-(

Your washing machine was not plumbed correctly.

You need an air column just before the machine.  The air column will
damp out the spikes from the solenoid valves.

	|  <--------------- water supply
	|
	|	| <------- capped pipe with air (not water) in it
	|	|
	|_______|___________ <----------- to washing machine

	^	^------  "tee" fitting
	|_____ elbow fitting

--Soren            [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Jim Kirkpatrick)
Date: 6 Jul 93 14:23:19 MDT

> 	|_______|___________ <----------- to washing machine

Except that, over time, the air may dissolve into the water and you
lose the air column.  Washing machines (and dish washers) supposedly
use balanced valves that close slowly.  Older machines (and maybe cheap
modern ones) use a straight solenoid valve that certainly can cause
banging.  Perhaps worn balanced valves close too quickly as well?

If your water supply has enough dissolved air in it already, perhaps
it could replenish the air column, but this would seem to depend on
the supply, and perhaps other factors.

---

From: [email-masked] (Michael Burlage)
Date: 7 Jul 1993 04:34:24 GMT

>but this would be inconvenient for me.

My Mom had a similar problem trying to water her house plants.
I solved the problem by purchasing for aprox. $20.00 a regulator
designed to fill a boiler.
any heating or plumbing supply house should set you up with one.
get an adjustable one.
The P.S.I. range typically is from 15 to 60.
You didn't say what pressure you need.

hpoe this helps, I've found by the time you make something,
you've usually spent twice what it would cost to buy a good one.

-- 

"Onward through the fog"
                         - Power-Hitter

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From: [email-masked] (David Jenkins)
Date: 7 Jul 1993 07:05:55 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
[email-masked] (Soren LaForce) writes:
|> 
|> Your washing machine was not plumbed correctly.
|> 
|> You need an air column just before the machine.  The air column will
|> damp out the spikes from the solenoid valves.
|> 
|> 
|> 	|  <--------------- water supply
|> 	|
|> 	|	| <------- capped pipe with air (not water) in it
|> 	|	|
|> 	|_______|___________ <----------- to washing machine
|> 
|> 	^	^------  "tee" fitting
|> 	|_____ elbow fitting
|> 
|> 
|> --Soren            [email-masked]

I know this trick - I even know where I can fit it - but it's a round
tuit job...   ;-)

-- 

David Jenkins

---

From: [email-masked] (David Jenkins)
Date: 7 Jul 1993 07:11:45 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
(Jim Kirkpatrick) writes:
|> Except that, over time, the air may dissolve into the water and you
|> lose the air column.  Washing machines (and dish washers) supposedly
|> use balanced valves that close slowly.  Older machines (and maybe
|> cheap
|> modern ones) use a straight solenoid valve that certainly can cause
|> banging.  Perhaps worn balanced valves close too quickly as well?
|> 
|> If your water supply has enough dissolved air in it already, perhaps
|> it could replenish the air column, but this would seem to depend on
|> the supply, and perhaps other factors.

The solution is easy - when the system starts banging again, turn off
the mains stop-cock, turn on the taps.  After draining, close the
taps, turn on the stop-cock, and the air column is full of air again.

Or, if I was feeling rich, I could buy an attachment with a gas
bladder in it, which theoretically wouldn't need replenishing.

Back to the original question, i.e. making a water regulator, someone
posted to me directly to say that it can be made in the same way as a
gas regulator, so I might experiment thataway.

Thanks to the several people who posted (I've lost the names!)

-- 

David Jenkins

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From: [email-masked] (Soren LaForce)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 15:39:00 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Jim Kirkpatrick) writes...
>In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Soren LaForce) writes:

stuff deleted.

>banging.  Perhaps worn balanced valves close too quickly as well?

I really don't know.  The original poster reported "water hammer"
like behavior, not slow valves.

>the supply, and perhaps other factors.

I doubt that the air will be "replenished" by disolved air in the water.
However suttting off the water supply and disconnecting the washing 
machine may drain the water out of the air column.  

It typically takes several (many) years for the air to disolve.

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From: [email-masked] ()
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 14:28:58 GMT

mobile home.  It was screwed on to the garden hose bib at mobile home parks and 
campgrounds.  Then a garden hose was run from the regulator to the water 
connection on the trailer.  The regulator prevented excessive water pressure in 
the campgrounds from rupturing the garden hose when all water consuming gadgets
in the mobile home were turned off.  You might check with recreational vehicle 
supply stores or dealers for water pressure regulators.
Hank
My opinions and not my employer's.

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From: [email-masked] (David Hoopes)
Date: 8 Jul 93 13:56:04 GMT

>protect a small and weak tap from the full force of water impinging

[ stuff deleted ]

>pressure or "head of water".

Don't worry about trying to build a regulator.  Just fire your worthless
plumber and get one that knows his job.  Regulators are a standard 
plumbing item.  Go to any GOOD plumbing supply store and ask for 
one (you will have several to choose from).  

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Hoopes                              Exabyte Corp.
[email-masked]                       11100 W 82nd St.          
Voice: (913) 492-6002 x323                Lenexa, Ks  66214