Subject: Wrought Iron (Is that spelled right?)

From: [email-masked] (David Lopata)
Date: 05 Oct 1993 13:10:24 GMT

...

	Obviously, I'm not a metal working wiz.  However, I'm
interested in getting a little more information on working with
"Wrought Iron" (Spelled that way 'cos I don't have dictionary handy).

	In particular, I'd like to build a large cage (5 x 4 x 6h) for
a Yellow Naped Amazon.  Some particular questions I'd like answered
(if possible):

	1.  What would be an estimated cost for a simple jail cell
	    this size?  Assuming the bars are no more than 3 inches
	    apart, and about a quarter inch in diameter?

	2.  What tools and equipment are required to work this stuff?

	3.  What's a good source for the metal?

	4.  Is there any other alternative metals I should be looking
	    into.

	Iron idiot here.  Thanks for any input.
--

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David C. Lopata                                          [email-masked]
System Manager, Dept. of Statistics                     University of Florida
"Our Paperless Office printed over 16,000 pages last month. . . . . . .  . ."

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 5 Oct 93 14:44:28 PDT

> 	4.  Is there any other alternative metals I should be looking

I suggest that you build only the framework out of steel tubing,
and then cover it with metal mesh (sometimes called hardware cloth).
My local hardware store carries it in rolls all the way from 12"
wide to four or five feet wide.   It comes with wire spacing all
the way from 1/4" to 4" square and with wire diameter in proportional
sizes.   This will make your work a *lot* easier and the heavy
mesh will give your bird a good foothold.   Don't use chickenwire;
your bird will cut right through it (as you probably already know).

I suggest that you make the framework from 1/2" or 3/4" square
steel tubing.   You might make the edges from 3/4" with 1/2"
tubes in between them every foot or so.   This will keep the
weight down while reducing the strength very little.   Design
it so that the panels can be taken apart (bolts & nuts) for transport.

You will probably need:

	Hacksaw (hand or power (Sawzall))
	Disk grinder (for cleaning ends and welds)
	Clamps (as Norm Abrams says, "You can never have too many clamps")
	Drill (hand or drillpress)
	Large vise on a solid workbench
	Heavy gloves (I like pigskin)
	Vise grip pliers (the kind for holding work for welding)
	First aid kit   :-)
	Welding rig

You can do it with either gas (oxy-acetylene) or arc (either "stick"
or MIG).   For someone with no experience, an inexpensive MIG welder
would probably be the best bet.   It is more complicated (and 
expensive) than a "stick" arc welder, but probably easier to use 
on this project.   Gas is OK, but you will have more safety
considerations (both transport and storage) to contend with.
Some places will not sell welding gasses to individuals.

In any event, you will need instruction and practice.   Contact
your local community college or trade school.   If you take the
class first, you will have a better idea of what to buy.   A
welding supply store might be able to help you find a class.

For the metal, look in the yellow pages under "metals".   It
took me a long time to find a supplier that carried the right
stuff at the right price, so plan to spend some time asking and
looking.   Some places carry aerospace quality (and prices) while
others are scrap metal dealers that never have what you want.

Home Depot carries metal shapes, but you will pay a lot more
than at a metal dealer   However, they are open evenings and weekends
and are everywhere.   Another possible source is a company that 
makes metal gates and fences.   Again, you will pay a bit more, 
but possibly save some time.

When you are done, clean it carefully, take it to your local auto
body shop and ask them to paint it with one of those epoxy-type
paints such as DuPont Imron.   Your bird will still be able to
chew it off, but it will cut down on the rust problem dramatically.
There are even better coatings, but I don't know anything about them.

--  Alan E. Frisbie               [email-masked]
--  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.
--  4759 Round Top Drive          (213) 256-2575 (voice)
--  Los Angeles, CA 90065         (213) 258-3585 (FAX)

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From: [email-masked] (James W. Swonger)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 14:48:29 GMT

Being as birds like to gnaw their cages, you will need to be sure you
use an edible paint. Definitely something without heavy metal pigments. 
I used one of those water-based, save-the-planet types they're selling
now; said it was OK for childrens' toys. 

 A straight iron cage may end up rusting (especially at the bottom)
on you. I assume that in addition to the bars you plan to make a sheet
metal tray to hold the reading material.

 Have you considered working in stainless? It's not especially cheap, 
but it won't need painting and with a MIG you can throw together a 
pretty complex wire structure in an evening. On the minus side, SS stock
and MIG wire seems to run about 4X (at least) the cost of mild steel. 
The main plus is that you get to skip the painting and the periodic
repainting in corrosive applications. 
-- 
##########################################################################
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#living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-#
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From: [email-masked] (J. Dahlgren)
Date: 7 Oct 1993 16:02:45 GMT

David Lopata wrote:
"To Blacksmiths, Metalurgists, and others who have some knowlege of metal,
Wrought Iron is type of metal that is very hard to find in the U.S.
(details omitted).

To everybody else, wrought iron is the fancy metal work found in railings,
gates, fences, etc."

Just to clarify, wrought iron WAS the metal used in "fancy metal (iron) work".
Use of iron for this work has been superceded by use of steel, however
the name still remains (as does the term "ironworker", even irons
are no longer made of iron).

-- 
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Jack Dahlgren                                          [email-masked]
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From: [email-masked] (David Lopata)
Date: 07 Oct 1993 16:24:07 GMT

...

	Not that it's a huge deal, but I didn't actually saying "To
Blacksmiths, Metalurgists. . ."; that was part of a response to my
original question.

	By the way, I've gotten  many responses, and am still sifting
through all the information.  I appreciate you guys taking the time on
this!  Thanks!
--

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 11 Oct 93 03:44:16 -0300

The Saugus Ironworks in Saugus, Massachusetts was built and operated
from 1649.  It was excavated and restored by the American Iron & Steel
Institute in the 50's and operated.  There's a film (rather PR-ish) of
it in operation.  It was turned over to the U.S. Parks Service after
which it deteriorated extensively.  I *think* the Parks folks have
repaired it since.

The problem is water:  If you look at the nice little map of how it
was in the 17th c. and climb the hill to look thru the trees toward
the mill pond, you find yourself looking at the hubcap of a Buick
parked in the street above the hammer mill.  Water for very brief demo
runs is supplied by big pumps concealed in the restored charcoal shed.

I would be really nice if someone rolling in money and clout could
arrange to get the whole place operational and produce wrought iron there.

In any case, worth a visit to see just how "modern" indirect-method
wrought iron was made less than three decades after the landing att
Plymouth. 

- Mike Spencer
[email-masked]