Subject: Quenching Solution

From: [email-masked] (Alan Stanley)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 02:03:47 GMT

I have finally gotten my new Sahinler air hammer installed and running after
months (6) of waiting and worrying, and I'm in a state of shock.  I have no
idea how I managed without one for all this time.

Here's my question - There have been rumours circulating lately about some
magical and mystical quenching solution that will give mild steel a Rockwell
number equivalent to a decent tool steel.  It supposedly contains dishwashing
detergent, some Shaklee product and God knows what else.  The three smiths I've
talked to about the stuff say that it actually works; they've all seen it
in action, but no one has the actual recipe.

If anyone out there has the formula, and instructions on quenching
temperatures, I'd love to have a look at it.  I've been making experimental
dies all week and it would be nice to make the good ones last for a while.

Thanks.  Alan

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Oct 93 07:22:22 -0500

> dies all week and it would be nice to make the good ones last for a while.

You're looking for the Rob Gunter Quench (of the Sandia Labs).  I'll try
to remember to bring the formula in tommorrow.  It's a salt/emulsifier/
liquid soap combination which mimics a 10% NaOH solution without the
environmental and health risks.  It does need some carbon in the steel
to work, i.e., typical mild steel does not respond that well, some cold-
rolled steels with 10-15 pts C harden up to a RC 30-40 (accroding to Rob
and if my memory serves).  I've attempted to make dies from mild steel
and harden them using this quench without out great results, i.e.,
tooling under my 50lb Little Giant caused significant mars to the faces.
This was probably due to too little C in the steel (temperature is also
critical but I was using a pyrometer-controlled gas forge, so I should
have been at the reguired 1550F).  I've since just welded (using stainless
electrodes) a plate of 5160 (1/2" thick), to the die faces and they
are working magnificantly.  Flat dies - the only way to go!

Steve Bloom

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From: [email-masked] (Ralph Snel)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 18:24:02 GMT

How deep does this hardening continue? Are we talking microns here?
How does it compare to a cyanide bath?

Ralph
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (My name is...)
Date: 29 OCT 93 16:07:53 edt

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Alan Stanley) writes...
>in action, but no one has the actual recipe.
I don't have the formula, but I'll testify to its effectiveness. A local smith
made me a 10" froe out of CRS and used this stuff to harden just the edge, 
since it was to large for Kasenit. As he explained it, this stuff encourages
the usual transition to face-centered arrangement, without the usual injection
of carbon. Sounds like magic to me. Anyhow, it was a great success. The back
of the blade is nice and resilient, while the edge is hard enough that I
have to file it sharp. Maybe R40 or so - about like your standard axe edge.

				- bruce

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From: [email-masked] (Arnold N Pears)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 00:52:26 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (R.C. Jones) writes:
>I would really appreciate the formula for this
>solution , plus any hints as to the application.

Count me for this too. Someone earlier hinted that they had the formula
at home or something.
There seems to be quite a bit of interest, perhaps you could post it.

Arnold.
-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Arnold Pears.  Computer Sci. Dept.		AARNET : [email-masked]
La Trobe Uni., Bundoora Vic. 3083, Australia.	"Well here we all are then."
Office: +61 3 479-1144						-ME