Subject: Casting with Pweter

From: [email-masked] (Bill Goodway)
Date: 7 Oct 1993 14:56:28 GMT

My son and I would like to try our hands at casting pewter sculptures and
jewlery.  Does anyone here have experience at this? Like where I can get
casting pewter, or maybe where I can get a used burnout kiln?

I found one retailer of casting pewter, but he only has one pound (at $24.95).
He can also get electric burnout kilns for about $500.  Seems a little steep
to me. I also wouldn't mind conecting to propane tank instead of using
electricity.  Any help or suggestions out there?

Thanks in advance, Bill Goodway
-- 
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From: [email-masked] (James Foster x2912)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 19:28:19 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Bill Goodway) writes:
|> My son and I would like to try our hands at casting pewter sculptures and
|> jewlery.  Does anyone here have experience at this? Like where I can get
|> casting pewter, or maybe where I can get a used burnout kiln?
|> 
|> I found one retailer of casting pewter, but he only has one pound (at $24.95).
|> He can also get electric burnout kilns for about $500.  Seems a little steep
|> to me. I also wouldn't mind conecting to propane tank instead of using
|> electricity.  Any help or suggestions out there?
|> 

Actually they both sound quite steep.  How about trying scrap metal
dealers for either pewter or tin and lead or a tin/lead alloy?  The
higher lead alloys wouldn't be suitable for jewelry, but should
work pretty well for sculptures.  I've purchased (within the
last year) linotype metal at $0.30/lb, pure lead (sheet stamping waste)
for $0.25, and used wheelweights (from a tire company) for $0.15/lb.
Granted tin is far more expensive than lead and maybe not as common
in scrap, but straight linotype should be quite good for casting
sculptures.

Shouldn't it be pretty easy and inexpensive to make a simple furnace?
I have an old article that describes making a pottery kiln with fire
brick and mortar, and using handmade nichrome wire coils for heating
elements.  I intend to make a smaller version for a simple heat treating
furnace.  The same thing could be fired up with air/propane.  Didn't 
someone post some construction guidelines for propane fired 
furnaces a few months ago?

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From: [email-masked] (David A. Sticha)
Date: 8 Oct 1993 17:51:55 GMT

>furnaces a few months ago?  

I don't have any experience with pewter at all, but from what I've read of
this thread so far it sounds exactly like casting bullets. Bullets are mostly
lead with tin added in varying amounts for hardness. If that describes pewter,
than you can probably get supplies a whole lot cheaper at a local shooting
establishment or mail order (see rec.guns for a list of suppliers). As I
recall, a company named Lee Precision sells a good, cheap lead pot with built
in bottom pour valve for $20 to $40 (sorry, its been a long time since I cast
any bullets).
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Dave Sticha ([email-masked])
 Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group - Arlington Heights IL
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [email-masked] (21012d)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 03:31:50 GMT

>Thanks in advance, Bill Goodway

   Modern pewter is mostly TIN, and can be melted in a higher
rated lead melting pot  or (in small quantities) wiht
a ladel and blow torch.   24 $ lb sounds like a pretty high
mark up as spot price is about 4 or 5 $ lb,  (lots
more expensive than lead  but lots cheaper than a few years
ago when the market price was over 10$ lb) 
  You should be able to find some kind of propane
tourch  for around 100 and a few fire bricks to make a
quick burnout place.   I would strongly suggest you
NOT try to duplicate older lead containing pewters.

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From: [email-masked] (M B Wehr (Bruce))
Date: 12 Oct 1993 15:18:13 GMT

> casting pewter, or maybe where I can get a used burnout kiln?

  I'm about to try my hand at casting jewelry, too.  I've done some
  reading and some investigating.  There is a company called Dyer's in
  Austin, Texas that offers a steam casting kit.  It includes many of
  the things you need, but not all (you should be able to put the kit
  together yourself from jewelry suppliers for about the same money).
  With steam casting, you don't need expensive vacuum or centrifugal
  machines, but I'm not sure how well the process is for reproducing
  fine detail.

  Anyway, for burnout, they suggest an electric hot plate with an
  inverted foil-lined clay flowerpot on top.  The person I talked to
  said the old-style hot plates (>1000 watts and no thermostat) were
  better than modern ones (750 watts, thermostatically controlled).  I
  wasn't able to find one.  But, I did find a new hot plate at K-Mart
  for $20 that was 1000 watts.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'll remove
  the thermostat if I have to.

  As for casting grain, I'm going to start with a metal from Vigor (a
  jewelry supply company) that they call "Rich Gold" (BTW, what's
  NuGold?  Is it the same stuff?)  It's a brass alloy that "has the look
  of gold" and is "ideal for beginners" (I have absolutely *no*
  metalworking experience - I find this group is very helpful).  It runs
  $24/pound (better than $8/ounce for silver!).  I think they sell
  pewter, too, but I have no idea how much it runs.

--
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From: [email-masked] (bill nelson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 03:05:47 GMT

[email-masked] (M B Wehr (Bruce)) writes:
: 
:   As for casting grain, I'm going to start with a metal from Vigor (a
:   jewelry supply company) that they call "Rich Gold" (BTW, what's
:   NuGold?  Is it the same stuff?)  It's a brass alloy that "has the look
:   of gold" and is "ideal for beginners" (I have absolutely *no*
:   metalworking experience - I find this group is very helpful).  It runs
:   $24/pound (better than $8/ounce for silver!).  I think they sell
:   pewter, too, but I have no idea how much it runs.

Why do you pay that much for silver? I pay about $4.50/ounce for fine
silver - and make my own sterling alloy.

Bill

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From: [email-masked] (M B Wehr (Bruce))
Date: 19 Oct 1993 19:18:50 GMT

> silver - and make my own sterling alloy.

  Oooo - sounds interesting! More input, please.

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From: [email-masked] (bill nelson)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 23:41:02 GMT

[email-masked] (M B Wehr (Bruce)) writes:
: bill nelson ([email-masked]) wrote:
: > Why do you pay that much for silver? I pay about $4.50/ounce for fine
: > silver - and make my own sterling alloy.
: 
:   Oooo - sounds interesting! More input, please.

Just go to your local stamp and coin dealer. Most of them sell silver
bullion in one ounce bars, at a small premium over the NY spot price.
Then, all you have to do is add your own chosen metal and melt it all
in a crucible.

You can do the same thing with gold, if you can afford it. Buy the bullion
and make your own 14K alloy.

Bill

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From: [email-masked] (Jenny Gagne)
Date: 20 Oct 1993 02:03:01 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (21012d)  
writes:
..
> NOT try to duplicate older lead containing pewters.

Could you use this same technique for jewelry metals like gold and silver?
I've been thinking of some very small scale jewelry production, and I'm  
trying to invest in a minimum of equipment.

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From: [email-masked] (bill nelson)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 18:58:43 GMT

[email-masked] (Jenny Gagne) writes:
: ..
: >    Modern pewter is mostly TIN, and can be melted in a higher
: > rated lead melting pot  or (in small quantities) wiht
: > a ladel and blow torch.   24 $ lb sounds like a pretty high
: > mark up as spot price is about 4 or 5 $ lb,  (lots
: > more expensive than lead  but lots cheaper than a few years
: > ago when the market price was over 10$ lb) 
: >   You should be able to find some kind of propane
: > tourch  for around 100 and a few fire bricks to make a
: > quick burnout place.   I would strongly suggest you
: > NOT try to duplicate older lead containing pewters.
: 
: Could you use this same technique for jewelry metals like gold and silver?
: I've been thinking of some very small scale jewelry production, and I'm  
: trying to invest in a minimum of equipment.

No.  For gold and silver, you have to worry about contamination with other
metals.  I have used a oxy/acetylene torch for heat, and a crucible that is
designed for gold/silver casting.

Propane torches and firebrick do not really do a good job of burnout.
You really should use a good furnace - a ceramics kiln is ideal. 

Bill

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From: [email-masked] (David Thompson)
Date: 20 Oct 1993 23:36 PST

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (bill nelson) writes...
>and make your own 14K alloy.

	I had another idea: I frequently see "We buy scrap silver..." ads 
in newspapers and such. You could do the same, and probably get it for a
bit under spot prices. Of course, you would have to be careful about what
you buy! All things considered, though, Bill's idea (above) is probably the
best way to go about this - at least you can be reasonably sure of what
you are getting!

Cheers,
Dave Thompson      \\\|||///          [email-masked]
                   \ ^   ^ /
                   < O   O >    
-----------VVVV------- V -------VVVV------------------------
  One cannot attain the limit of craftsmanship,
  And there is no craftsman who acquires his total mastery.
                                  - Ptahhotep, c. 2350 B.C.
  But I can try!            
                                  - me, 1993
------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [email-masked] (M B Wehr (Bruce))
Date: 22 Oct 1993 13:02:20 GMT

> Then, all you have to do is add your own chosen metal and melt it all

I guess that's what I was looking for:  what metal and proportions do
you alloy it with (for, let's say, sterling), and are there any special
techniques to make sure the metals mix completely?

I only ask about techniques due to recent experience (remember, I'm
totally new to metalworking).  I have tried casting a few things with
"Rich Gold," a brass alloy from Vigor.  I was mostly successful for the
first time last night!  When you're done casting, you still have a sprue
wire and a small button of metal to be cut off.  I was under the
impression that this metal could be reused.  But, in the small button of
left-over metal in my casting, the copper and whatever it was alloyed
with had separated; the button had a very patchy-color appearance with
some obvious copper patches.  It is also very porous; not smooth or
shiny at all.

Is this to be expected, or am I doing somehting wrong?  Is there
anything I can do rejuvenate this metal so I can reuse it?  Is there
anything special you need to do when attempting to create an alloy to
ensure that the mix is complete?

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From: [email-masked] (Bill Goodway)
Date: 22 Oct 1993 15:27:37 GMT

Can I use the same oven for both burnout and melting metal?

I've seen the plans for a homemade, forced air, propane oven that
is supposed to get hot enough for aluminum and brasses, costing about 
about $30 (at the time of writing).  This was from a book at the
local library.  It appeared this was how the author did all of his
casting.

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From: [email-masked] (R.G. Keen)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 20:58:49 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
> local library.  It appeared this was how the author did all of his

Can you tell us the name of the book and the author?

R. G.

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From: [email-masked] (Michael J. Edelman)
Date: 27 Oct 1993 18:28:51 GMT

In article [email-masked],  [email-masked] (R.G. Keen) writes:
>> about $30...
Dave Gingery has written three book on furnaces that can melt metal:

Charcoal Foundry ($6.95) how to cast aluminum and pot metal
Lil' Bertha Electric Furnace ($8.95) Up to 1800 degrees; optionally up to 2400..
Building a Gas-Fired Crucible Furnace ($9.95) this one will melt iron.

All from Lindsay Publications, (815)935-5353

His books are brief, but packed with useful info. I've read the first (borrowed
it from a friend) and am thumbing thorugh his book on building a lathe.

--mike