Subject: HELP! 9" So. Bend lathe confusion!

From: [email-masked] (Alden Hackmann)
Date: 3 Nov 1993 00:47:45 GMT

I promised there would be more silly questions, and here we are:

Several months ago we bought a 1940's 9" South Bend lathe, which came 
with a 3-jaw chuck, a 4-jaw chuck, a faceplate, and a bunch of other 
stuff, but no collet closer and collets.  Wanting to use the 5C collets I 
could find easily available in catalogs, I bought a collet chuck, and a 
mounting plate for it.  The little manual that came with the lathe said 
that the spindle nose was threaded 1-1/2" x 8, so that's the mounting 
plate I got.  

It turns out that the spindle nose is in fact 1-3/8" x 8, so the mounting 
plate doesn't fit properly.  I have seen no 1-3/8" x 8 accessories in any 
catalog I have looked in, and one person I talked to who sells old South 
Bend parts says that South Bend has never made a lathe with a 1-3/8" x 8 
spindle, and concluded that one of the previous owners had modified the 
machine.  

I don't have a lot of machining experience, and I've been told that 
cutting inside threads is non-trival.  I'm willing to try.  

What shall I do to mount the collet chuck?  

I could try cutting a 1-3/8" x 8 inside thread on a mounting plate (for 
instance a 1" x 8 plate, which I would have to buy).  

I could bore out the threads of the 1-1/2" x 8 mounting plate, put in a
piece of 1-1/2" stock and secure it with pins and LockTite, bore it, and
cut a 1-3/8" x 8 inside thread in that.  

I could try to replace the spindle with one threaded with 1-1/2" x 8, and 
subsequently replace the 3-jaw chuck, the 4-jaw chuck, and the faceplate 
(or cut new inside threads on them ;-(  ). 

I could return or resell the collet chuck, and find some other way of 
closing the collets.  One attraction of the collet chuck for me is the 
ability to have the work go all the way through the headstock, a feature 
I would like to retain if I can.  

Some other option I hadn't thought of, provided kindly by you.

Your help will be greatly appreciated!  

Alden F.M. Hackmann
[email-masked]
Dept. of Pathology, University of Washington

"Clear analysis of any situation is frequently mistaken for pessimism."

I'm looking for an old Atlas-Clausing milling machine - got one for sale?

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From: [email-masked] (Dave Golber)
Date: 3 Nov 1993 16:03:20 GMT

>Dept. of Pathology, University of Washington

My suggestion: communicate with South Bend.  These kind of people can
sometimes be very helpful.  If the fact is that the machine has been modified,
try to determine just exactly how.  FOr example, if all that has been done
is to put in a modified spoindle, then just take it out and put in a standard
spindle.  I think it's very likely that South Bend can still supply one.
Once everything on the lathe is standard, then you you can more easily
get all sorts of standard tooling for it.

OOOPS:  You already have a a 3 & 4-jaw chuck and a faceplate for this?
So you don't want to change the spindle.  Aw nuts!  

In any case, call South Bend.

Dave Golber

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From: [email-masked] (Dion Hollenbeck)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 15:42:19 GMT

>>>>> "Alden" == Alden Hackmann <[email-masked]> writes:

Alden> I promised there would be more silly questions, and here we
Alden> are: Several months ago we bought a 1940's 9" South Bend lathe,
Alden> which came with a 3-jaw chuck, a 4-jaw chuck, a faceplate, and
Alden> a bunch of other stuff, but no collet closer and collets.
[...extra deleted about wrong size threads...]
Alden> I don't have a lot of machining experience, and I've been told
Alden> that cutting inside threads is non-trival.  I'm willing to try.

I don't have extensive machining experience either, but I have no
trouble cutting inside threads.  If you can keep your travel direction
straight and not bring the tool back *into* the work when you are
withdrawing it between passes, there is really no difference in
cutting inside or outside threads other than the type of cutting tool
necessary. 

Alden> What shall I do to mount the collet chuck?

Alden> I could return or resell the collet chuck, and find some other
Alden> way of closing the collets.  One attraction of the collet chuck
Alden> for me is the ability to have the work go all the way through
Alden> the headstock, a feature I would like to retain if I can.

Don't know why you would need collets to achieve this feature.  The
lathe owned by my gunsmithing instructor has 2 4 jaw chucks and 3 3
jaw chucks and *all* of them allow the material to stick out through
the head stock.  Just get the right chuck.

-- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814     Email: [email-masked]
Senior Software Engineer                      [email-masked]
Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California    ucsd!megatek!hollen

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 19:10:12 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Alden  Hackmann) writes:
>spindle, (rest deleted)

In an earlier post I state in error that my circa 1934 9" South Bend has a
1-3/8 x 8 spindle.  Not so, I found the South Bend File and my machine has
a 1-3/8 x 10 spindle thread.  A quick check with the thread gauge in the shop
shows that it is for sure 10 threads per inch.

Check your spindle and chucks, I bet they too are 10 threads per inch.  Same
problem as with 8 threads per inch, still a not a standard size.  South Bend
will be of no help at least they where not 20 years ago when I was looking for
a chuck back plate.

Still you can do the work on your lathe I  did and they where the first threads 
I cut.  Again I suggest you start by making a male master at 1-3/8 x 10 and
use you chucks to get a good fit.  Then cut your female threads.

Once again if you don't have a threading indicaltor on your lathe you will need
to keep the half nut engaged the whole time and stop and the reverse the lathe
for each cut.(The lead screw is 8 theards per inch.) Use your slowest speed and 
make very light cuts.

The South Bend I have was purchased about 1935 by the University of Purdue and
later from them by the Assoication of American Railroads for their Research
Labs in Chicago.  My father worked there for 30 years and purchased it as
surplus in about 1970.  I still have the orginal Catalog and Catalog sheets the
price for the model I have was $ 118.00 or $28.00 down and 12 monthly payments
of $ 8.00.

If you need copies I can make them but they don't show anything except general
spec's and part lists.  The parts list don't really help since South Bend no
longer sells parts for these lathes.

email me direct if I can be of any help.

Dave Smucker

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 17:44:55 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Alden  Hackmann) writes:
>[B

My circa 1934 South Bend has and always has had a 1-3/8 x 8 spindle.  That just
the way they made them back then.  The purchase price with table of southern
pine was about $ 110.00.  I have a old sales flyer somewhere.
 ine w0. I have a old sales flyer somewhere.                                                        
What I did was to first make a male 1 -3/8 x 8 master using the chucks I  had
to test fit the threads I was cutting.  Takes time but works well.  with this
male master I could then cut new chuck back plates, etc.
 
I "screwed" up a least one before I got good at it.  Also note that it is the
tapered pilot that is behind the threads that centers the chuck and not the
threads themselves.  Because of this you want a nice easy running fit between
your male and female threads.
 
If you lathe does not have a thread indicatlor (mine doesn't) then a trick is
to stop the lathe at the end of cut and reverse it without opening the the half
nut.  This takes time but always works.  If the number of threads per inch is
the same as the lead screw you don't have to do this.
 
Good Luck
 
Dave Smucker

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From: [email-masked] (John Cooper)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 01:44:23 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (John Cooper) writes:
>
>I recentely purchased a Craftsman/Atlas metal lathe nearly complete except
>for follower rest and owners manual.  While I can build the follower if the
>need should arise I'd really like to get a copy of the manual.  This lathe
>is estimated to be between 20-30 years old.  I called Sears parts & service
>but they couldn't locate anything called a 'manual' on their computer but
>found a 'parts list' for ~$5.
>
>Anyone out there know where I could get a manual (presumably from Atlas if
>they're still in business)?  Anybody own one of these lathes?  The model
>number is 101.07403.  I would appreciate any and all info.  Thanks!

Sorry, I forgot to include the vitals: swing 12"dia., ~24" between centers,
thread cutting, 8 spindle speeds (4 belt pos x 2 gear pos), threaded spindle
on head (haven't measured the size/pitch yet) with a MT#3 bore, tail
bored MT#2.  Also I'm assuming it's an Atlas since that's what the seller
told me and I know at some point in the dim past that Atlas made lathes for
Sears.  I would also appreciate finding the Atlas model# for this unit.

I think I got a reasonable deal on this at $400 since the thing has been
basically sitting around for all of those years and is well preserved.
I even got a bunch of HSS and carbide cutters, set of collets, horizontal
boring attachment, taper jig, boring bars, straight and turret tool holders,
big HEAVY metal bench, a 1/3HP motor (with wiring that would make anyone
at UL faint) etc.. thrown in with the lathe.

-john

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From: [email-masked] (John Cooper)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 01:14:47 GMT

-john

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From: [email-masked] (Michael J. Edelman)
Date: 5 Nov 1993 12:53:13 GMT

In article [email-masked],  [email-masked] (John Cooper) writes:
>for follower rest and owners manual. ...

>they're still in business)?  

Atlas lathes are gone (though I think the parent company still exists) but
there are a lot of parts around. Cambpell Tools in Springfield, OH lists a number
of parts, and they've been very good to deal with. They cater to hobbyists
as well as pros. Call them at (513) 322-8562.

In their catalog I see a follower rest for a 6" ATlas, part M6-395, at $55.30.

--mike

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From: [email-masked] (Michael J. Edelman)
Date: 5 Nov 1993 12:56:30 GMT

In article [email-masked],  [email-masked] (John Cooper) writes:
...
>Sorry, I forgot to include the vitals: swing 12"dia., ~24" between center 

In that case, the follower rest from Campbell is #6626A at $87.35.
>
>I think I got a reasonable deal on this at $400....

Given that an imported Chinese 12" x 36" lathe costs nearly $3,000, I'd say it
was a pretty good deal....

:-)   mike

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From: [email-masked] (Paul Amaranth)
Date: 5 Nov 1993 14:18:46 GMT

>>found a 'parts list' for ~$5.

Clausing Industrial bought out the Atlas Press Company.  They can still
supply most of the parts for Atlas/Sears lathes.  I've been slowly
rebuilding my lathe over the summer.  Ended up replacing the nuts
on the cross slide, a spindle bearing (which you can get from local
bearing suppliers) and a number of the gears and shafts in the feed 
mechanism.  The only really bad part left is the lead screw, although
I really ought to have the ways ground (there are some .01 ridges by
the headstock worn in from the saddle travel.  From the condition of it,
this lathe had seen some *serious* use).

Anyway, the address is 
    Clausing Industrial, Inc.
    Service Center
    811 Eisenhower Dr. South
    PO Box 877
    Goshen, Indiana 46526

They also have an 800 number, although I don't have it handy.  Call or
write, give them the model number of your lathe, and they'll send out
a parts list and accessory guide.  The parts list that Sears sells for
$5 is the same as the Clausing one with the same part numbers, so you
can get it from either source.  You'll need a copy to identify the
part numbers.

You can even get a copy of the original guide to using the Atlas lathe.
I think it was well worth the ten bucks.

BTW, I've been very happy with their service.  In fact, I overpaid on
an order and every month they would send me a notice saying I had a
credit of xxx and did I want them to refund it?  Prices on some
accessories might be a little high, but for the actual required parts
they're ok. The prices do include shipping.
-- 
Paul Amaranth  Manager User Services - office: (313) 370 4541 (also voicemail)
(internet)     [email-masked]  | Amaranth's Law of Economics:
(bitnet)       amaranth@oakland               |  Brit Sports cars + horses
(uucp)         ...!uunet!umich!vela!amaranth  |            = $0

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From: [email-masked] (Paul Amaranth)
Date: 5 Nov 1993 14:59:14 GMT

>a parts list and accessory guide.  The parts list that Sears sells for
   ^^^^^^^^^^

I hate to follow up my own post, but that was supposed to be 'price list',
not a parts list.  The parts list with exploded views and part numbers
is around $5.
-- 
Paul Amaranth  Manager User Services - office: (313) 370 4541 (also voicemail)
(internet)     [email-masked]  | Amaranth's Law of Economics:
(bitnet)       amaranth@oakland               |  Brit Sports cars + horses
(uucp)         ...!uunet!umich!vela!amaranth  |            = $0

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From: [email-masked] (Bob Neidorff)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 14:35:04 GMT

Didn't South Bend have an older lathe style which was 9" that
took smaller (less standard) collets and a larger 10" style
that took 5C collets?  My memory is fading...

-- 
Bob Neidorff; Unitrode I. C. Corp.  |  Internet: [email-masked]
7 Continental Blvd.                 |  Voice   : (US) 603-424-2410
Merrimack, NH  03054-0399 USA       |  FAX     : (US) 603-424-3460

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From: [email-masked] (Dave Golber)
Date: 5 Nov 1993 15:54:05 GMT

>number is 101.07403.  I would appreciate any and all info.  Thanks!

I've got a 12x36 Craftsman/Atlas, probably even older than yours.  Get
the "parts list" from Sears.  Then get the parts list from
Atlas/Clausing in Goshen Indiana.  The Sears list shows a picture of
the thing, exploded, while the Atlas list is just a list.  It's pretty
hard to decide without a picture, when the list just says "bracket"!

I have this little booklet called something like "Manual of
Lathe Operation".  Speeds and feeds, etc, how to thread, etc.

Call me at home, and I can try and get you more details.

Dave Golber 310/391-1269  (Los Angeles)

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From: [email-masked] (f.w.kerfoot..iii)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 18:49:18 GMT

>From article <[email-masked]>, by [email-masked] (Bob Neidorff):
> 

Yes. The 9" South Bends have always taken smaller collets (3C, 11/16"
Max. if I recollect). The "regular" South Bend 10" lathe, as with
all of the larger lathes, takes 5C collets  (1 1/16" max.). South Bend
also made (makes?) a "light" 10" lathe (I've forgotten the model designation)
which has a similar spindle to the 9" lathe (3C collets) and generally
lighter construction.

It appears from all of the discussion that SB made 2 variations on the
9" lathe, with different spindle nose threads. The subject of the collet
size for the older 9" hasn't come up (that I recollect),  but it seems
very likely that it takes 3C collets, or one of the similarly sized
variants.

Frank Kerfoot
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (John Cooper)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 19:19:12 GMT

To everyone who replied via mail/post.  I sincerely appreciate the info.
I wish more newsgroups were this useful.

-john