From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!a2i!lps Thu Nov 11 23:45:07 EST 1993 Article: 2709 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!a2i!lps From: lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) Subject: Re: Anvils Message-ID: Keywords: anvil Sender: news@rahul.net (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: bolero Organization: a2i network References: <1993Nov8.230738.13159@mmm.mmm.com> Distribution: na Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 18:17:19 GMT Lines: 28 In <2bn8s9$jhu@panix.com> ayen@panix.com (Doug Ayen) writes: >A 100# anvil, in my experience, is worth about 100-140 dollars. That's if it >is in good shape. The person you encountered is an antique tool dealer. Do >not deal with him! If people don't buy those anvils from him, he will >come to his senses and price them according to their true value. Or lose >his shirt. >Go to used machine-tool shops and ask around. Check out any local flea markets. Be on the lookout for barn sales and old factory auctions. This is how you >can find cheap anvils. Trust me, I've procured/reconditioned/resold about 10 >in the last four years. >--doug You can also MAKE one out of old railroad track, a cutting torch, a good grinder and some time. Warning: Do not use railroad track that is in current use by trains . I made one like this and I am extremely happy with it. I think if more people had anvils, they might be less likely to beat their wives and kids as well. -- The Lottery is a Tax on those who can't do Math! - heard on UseNet Kevin Martinez lps@rahul.net From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj Thu Nov 11 23:45:11 EST 1993 Article: 2710 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj From: rcj@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (R.C. Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Neophyte Welding Message-ID: <14578@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> Date: 9 Nov 93 21:28:31 GMT References: <2bonc7$j5d@delphinium.rtsg.mot.com> Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research Co., La Habra, CA Lines: 17 I recommend oxyacetelene to start as you will want it later for cutting and heating and brazing. Oxyacetelene is not much good for heavy stuff. Next add a 120 vac mig like the Lincoln SP100. Just my comments. I have Oxyacetelene ~ $300 (used unit) 240 vac Buzz box ~ 180 (Price Club) Sp100 w/c25 gas ~ 700 (VB Anderson.) I only use the buzz box for grunge welding also its not portable. The mig is my friend, but I still need my Oxyacetelene , 4.5 inch right angle grinder and chop saw to manufacture my steel sculptures. -- |___________________________________________________________________| >>| Dik Jones, Earth Model Interpretation Internet: rcj@Chevron.com | | Chevron Petroleum Technology Company. Tel: (310) 694-7056 | | La Habra, California 90633-0446 Fax: (310) 694-7063 | From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato!canterbury.ac.nz!cantva!fren012 Thu Nov 11 23:45:12 EST 1993 Article: 2711 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato!canterbury.ac.nz!cantva!fren012 From: fren012@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Mike Clayton, m.clayton@csc.canterbury.ac.nz) Subject: Re: Lathe; a crushing blow Message-ID: <1993Nov10.132854.1@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> Nntp-Posting-Host: cantva.canterbury.ac.nz Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand References: <2blshc$q2a@news.aero.org> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 01:28:54 GMT Lines: 25 >>>Dave Golber >>> Yes, it can pose a real problem...a parting tool can and will be destroyed >>> if there is an excess of backlash in the cross-feed. It gets sucked right >>> into the part you are cutting off, with truly shattering results! Tighten- >>> ing up the cross-feed gibs helps, but makes it real hard to control the >>> rate at which you advance the parting tool. >>> >>> Bill Martin > I use a rear mounted parting blade set "upside down" in a toolpost that I dreamed up one night. The advantage (IMHO) of this set up is that the reaction forces set up are directed down into the bed of the lathe, rather than upward, as would be the case with front mouted tool. Also any tendency for the tool to dig in is turned into a tendency to dig out, or above the job. This ensure that the tool is not dragged into the work. One other precaution I take is to lock the carriage against any motion along the bed. My latrhe is a Myford ML10 and I find that cutting slices off a 2" billet of leaded steel is no problem with this setup given a sharp blade and plenty of "suds". Mike Clayton m.clayton@csc.canterbury.ac.nz From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!a2i!lps Thu Nov 11 23:45:12 EST 1993 Article: 2712 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!a2i!lps From: lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) Subject: Re: Neophyte Welding Message-ID: Sender: news@rahul.net (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: bolero Organization: a2i network References: <2bonc7$j5d@delphinium.rtsg.mot.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 01:40:19 GMT Lines: 13 Hello, Take advantage of your tax dollars and find a local community college that teaches welding and sign up for a beginning course. You will have the opportunity to use the school equipment without purchasing any yourself. This can give you an introduction to the different welding processes available and get you started with some expert "hands on" help. -- The Lottery is a Tax on those who can't do Math! - heard on UseNet Kevin Martinez lps@rahul.net From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Thu Nov 11 23:45:13 EST 1993 Article: 2713 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Silver Prices Message-ID: <1993Nov10.060255.14246@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: <2bou1a$3bt@usenet.rpi.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 06:02:55 GMT Lines: 20 edgarm@cii3130-01.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) writes: : Greetings, : : I hope I am not taking up too much bandwidth to ask : something that is sort of in the FAQ and sort of not. : : I would like some Christmas orniments out of Sterling : silver. The only supplier that I have dealt with is : Rio Grande. Their going for 6", 22 gauge sheet stock is the : market price + $5.00 +- per oz + $1.50 handling + $4.00 postage. : : Is this a reasonable price for a 5 oz order? Any suggestions : on where to go for a better price? That sounds about normal for a small order. You may be able to get down to spot + $2 or thereabouts for 100+ ounce orders. Find out where they have their price breaks. Sometimes, it pays off to make a larger purchase. Bill From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mdisea!uw-coco!nwnexus!neilm Thu Nov 11 23:45:14 EST 1993 Article: 2714 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mdisea!uw-coco!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Silver Prices Date: 9 Nov 1993 21:38:19 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 34 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <2bou1a$3bt@usenet.rpi.edu> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92s (Beta) Originator: neilm@halcyon.com In article <2bou1a$3bt@usenet.rpi.edu> edgarm@rpi.edu writes: > > I hope I am not taking up too much bandwidth to ask > something that is sort of in the FAQ and sort of not. Don't sweat it, this ain't comp.os.linux.help. ;) > I would like some Christmas orniments out of Sterling > silver. The only supplier that I have dealt with is > Rio Grande. Their going for 6", 22 gauge sheet stock is the > market price + $5.00 +- per oz + $1.50 handling + $4.00 postage. > > Is this a reasonable price for a 5 oz order? Any suggestions > on where to go for a better price? I've not bought much sheet this year, but Rio's always been com- petitive. You might check TSI, Inc., 800/426-9984. Sometimes they beat Rio, sometimes they don't. I usually use them because I'm frequently in Seattle anyhow and can save P&H by going to their showroom. How hard would it be to collect fabrication fee tables from several suppliers and post an average in the FAQ? Even just the entries for sheet, round, half-round, & square wire, and plain bezel stock would be useful info. (Individual suppliers might balk at us publishing their catalog info, but if we come up with an average from several of them they should have nothing to gripe about. It's a thought.) Cheers! Neil -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Thu Nov 11 23:45:15 EST 1993 Article: 2715 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: PAZCW@UK.AC.NOTT.VAX (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Silver Solder? Hard Solder? Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 11:43:07 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <2botp2$ctc@tymix.Tymnet.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk Further to silver solder and the cadmium problem; your supplier is right, there are real toxicity problems for the major user of this stuff, so he is probably being cautious. You will be fine if you ventilate well. Here in the UK Cadmium-bearing solder is widely used but we all (I hope!) know abou the toxicity and act accordingly. The standard product is Johnson Matthey Easy-Flo no. 2. This is such an industry standard that I can't believe that its not available in the US. The corresponding non-cadmium product is silver-flo and is more expensive since it needs more silver to bring the m.p. down - this is why we don't use it, since we are all poor over here. If you have trouble with the material flowing, change your flux; easy-flo flux is designed for cadmium solders and your supplier might recommend something different for silver-flo. I often use plain borax (but I admit my experience is confined to small stuff; no boilers yet!) I would advise against buying solder from lapidary suppliers since they often only use designations like "easy", "hard", etc, so you dont know what you are getting. Most model engineering suppliers over here stock a range of JM products - you might buy from here (e.g. Reeves or Blackgates) by VISA. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws Thu Nov 11 23:45:16 EST 1993 Article: 2716 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws From: jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) Subject: Re: Tig welding References: <1993Nov9.223551.24610@trl.oz.au> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 15:30:21 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: billy.mlb.semi.harris.com Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL Sender: news@mlb.semi.harris.com Message-ID: <1993Nov10.153021.21740@mlb.semi.harris.com> Lines: 13 You need the High Freq box when you are using AC current with the TIG torch. This is because the arc tends to snuff out at each zero crossing. If you have a square wave this may be less of a problem because the arc plasma may not dissipate before the opposite phase is reached. Aluminum welding generally uses AC current. I think it has to do with the ability to rupture the oxide layer nicely. -- ########################################################################## #Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons # #living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-# #sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!# From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david Thu Nov 11 23:45:16 EST 1993 Article: 2717 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david From: david@barney.UUCP (David Hoopes) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Anvils Keywords: anvil Message-ID: <189@barney.UUCP> Date: 10 Nov 93 13:07:32 GMT References: <1993Nov8.230738.13159@mmm.mmm.com> <14576@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> <14577@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> Distribution: na Organization: Exabyte, Lenexa (Formerly Tallgrass Technologies) Lines: 16 rcj@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (R.C. Jones) writes: >Where does one find a piece of railroad track?? Watch for the crews coming through repairing track. They will often leave old pieces laying off to the side. The hard part is finding a piece small enough to move. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- David Hoopes Exabyte Corp. david@tallgrass.COM 11100 W 82nd St. Voice: (913) 492-6002 x3323 Lenexa, Ks 66214 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!emory!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf Thu Nov 11 23:45:17 EST 1993 Article: 2718 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!emory!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf From: jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) Subject: Re: Tig welding Organization: Control Data Systems Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 16:29:53 GMT Message-ID: References: Sender: usenet@cdsmail.cdc.com (News Poster) Lines: 30 In article , erickson@cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson) writes: |> I have a big Lincoln AC-DC stick welder that I want to use for TIG. |> I already have the TIG attachment, along with a 250 cu ft bottle of helium |> (which also is used infrequently by my wife for helium balloons) and a flow |> regulator. Most of the discussion I've seen suggests using argon for TIG, but |> is there a big disadvantage to using helium? |> |> How necessary is a high-frequency attachment and footswitch? I plan on |> scratch-starting. What will I gain from the high-frequency attachment? |> |> What polarity works best with TIG? Should the welder be set to DC- or |> DC+? |> |> -Dave Erickson |> I have an old Wards AC welder. I ran into a HF attachment and a TIG attachment at Sears surplus stores over the years at great prices, but never used the TIG torch because I could never justify buying an Argon tank and never had a project that justified even renting one. I did use the HF attachment quite a bit just stick welding. It makes it a lot easier to get an arc going and I was under the impression that it was manditory with TIG for some metals. I also think it only works for AC, but since that's all I have I'm not sure. My guess with the helium tank is that you may need a higher flow rate than argon because the He will disperse easier. It's also got to be a lot more expensive, isn't it? Any experts out there that can shed more light on TIG welding? It seems to have been pretty much displaced by MIG systems, but since I'm only a tank away from being able to use it (and I can always use that tank on my MIG welder when I get one B^)) I'd like to know how useful it is. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil!erickson Thu Nov 11 23:45:18 EST 1993 Article: 2719 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil!erickson From: erickson@cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson) Subject: Re: Tig welding Message-ID: Sender: news@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey References: <1993Nov9.223551.24610@trl.oz.au> <1993Nov10.153021.21740@mlb.semi.harris.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 17:00:49 GMT Lines: 13 In article <1993Nov10.153021.21740@mlb.semi.harris.com>, James W. Swonger wrote: > You need the High Freq box when you are using AC current with the TIG >torch. This is because the arc tends to snuff out at each zero crossing. I assume this is due to the inert gas. Is there a difference between Argon and Helium or various mixtures of shielding gasses in their ability to maintain the arc? i.e., could I use a different shielding gas (CO2 for example) and eliminate the HF? -Dave Erickson From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!euler.Berkeley.EDU!jmorton Thu Nov 11 23:45:19 EST 1993 Article: 2720 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!euler.Berkeley.EDU!jmorton From: jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: HELP! 9" So. Bend lathe confusion! Date: 10 Nov 1993 18:24:04 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Lines: 67 Message-ID: <2brbk4$j12@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <2b6v3h$bb8@news.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: euler.berkeley.edu In article , wrote: > In article <2b6v3h$bb8@news.u.washington.edu>, darkstar@carson.u.washington.edu (Alden Hackmann) writes: >> >>I don't have a lot of machining experience, and I've been told that >>cutting inside threads is non-trival. I'm willing to try. >> >>I could try cutting a 1-3/8" x 8 inside thread on a mounting plate (for >>instance a 1" x 8 plate, which I would have to buy). >> >What I did was to first make a male 1 -3/8 x 8 master using the chucks I had >to test fit the threads I was cutting. Takes time but works well. with this >male master I could then cut new chuck back plates, etc. > >I "screwed" up a least one before I got good at it. Also note that it is the >tapered pilot that is behind the threads that centers the chuck and not the >threads themselves. Because of this you want a nice easy running fit between >your male and female threads. > >If you lathe does not have a thread indicatlor (mine doesn't) then a trick is >to stop the lathe at the end of cut and reverse it without opening the the half >nut. This takes time but always works. If the number of threads per inch is >the same as the lead screw you don't have to do this. > >Dave Smucker Dave's advice is correct. Most threaded spindle noses use the thread for concentricity and a square shoulder for perpendicularity. If there is a taper as on Dave's machine, it forgives the thread but adds the challenge of fitting the taper. Anything involving the spindle of any machine is critical and must be done very carefully. The dummy spindle nose can be made to a wire measurement, if you have thread-measuring wires; otherwise an existing chuck with a good fit should be OK. Perhaps the single most important part of the procedure is to face the back end at the same time as you cut the thread; this face combines with the thread to orient the chuck properly. If there is really a taper, you must be ready with enough information to match it, e.g. have your compound rest previously set to the angle, which you will have got by indicating the original spindle taper before you set up the backplate blank. John Morton University of California jmorton@euler.berkeley.edu Mechanical Engineering {decvax,cbosgd}!ucbvax!euler!jmorton Machine Shop From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Fri Nov 12 13:44:23 EST 1993 Article: 2721 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: HELP! 9" So. Bend lathe confusion! Organization: AT&T Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 22:16:45 GMT Message-ID: References: <2brbk4$j12@agate.berkeley.edu> Lines: 46 >From article <2brbk4$j12@agate.berkeley.edu>, by jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton): > In article , wrote: >> In article <2b6v3h$bb8@news.u.washington.edu>, darkstar@carson.u.washington.edu (Alden Hackmann) writes: >>> >>I "screwed" up a least one before I got good at it. Also note that it is the >>tapered pilot that is behind the threads that centers the chuck and not the >>threads themselves. Because of this you want a nice easy running fit between >>your male and female threads. >> > Most threaded spindle noses use the thread for > concentricity and a square shoulder for perpendicularity. If there > is a taper as on Dave's machine, it forgives the thread but adds the > challenge of fitting the taper. Actually, my 10" South Bend, and I had assumed most other threaded spindles to be the same, uses a square shoulder for perpendicularity, and a cylindrical surface (not tapered) adjacent to it as a register for cencentricity. The threads (2 1/4" x 8 in my case) simply hold the chuck or other spindle accessory against the register. Since the register is not tapered, it is not a particularly difficult turning operation, other than the need for high accuracy and good surface finish. I believe that mine is hardened and ground. If that is the case with yours it would make the job a bit more challenging. You might want to consider building a mild steel extension which threads onto the existing 1 3/8" threads on the existing spindle, and has external 1 1/2" threads for other accessories. You would need to fit the old spindle register on the inside of the extension, and put an appropriate new register on the outside. I suspect that you couldn't make the threads overlap due to the thread depth, so the extension would move the chuck perhaps an inch or two further from the headstock bearings. This additional overhang would be a negative aspect, but I would not expect it to be a big problem. A nosepiece mounted 5C collet assembly, which is what I think got this going, will have considerable overhang anyway, since the 9" SB spindle bore is too small for the 5C collets to go inside. The separate extension would of course allow you to use your existing 1 3/8" accessories, and to also use any other 1 1/2" accessories you come across. By the way, if you do this, plan for a way to remove the extension, such as one or more holes on a non-precision part of the circumference, to be used with a pin wrench. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Fri Nov 12 13:44:27 EST 1993 Article: 2722 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Tig welding Message-ID: <1993Nov10.130856.139@flying-disk.com> Date: 10 Nov 93 13:08:56 PDT References: <1993Nov9.223551.24610@trl.oz.au> <1993Nov10.153021.21740@mlb.semi.harris.com> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 35 I already have an oxy-acetylene welding/cutting rig and have just knowledge/experience to keep out of major trouble. Now I would like to get either a MIG or TIG outfit and need some advice on which to get. The project I am buying this for is the restoration of an old automobile. The floor panels are rusted to the point that I can see light through the pinholes. Fortunately, replacement panels are available. Unfortunately, the area that needs to be replaced is much smaller than the whole panel, and the edges of the whole panel are not easy to get at. What I want to do is cut out the rusted section and a matching section from the new panel, then weld the new section in place. The problem is that I want the joint to be as invisible as possible. The panel is generally flat, but with 1/2" wide stiffening channels stamped in it. Is MIG or TIG (or some other process) the best for this type of job? Is there anything else I should consider? The second type of job I envision for my new welder is the usual 1/16" to 1/4" steel fabrication jobs such as workbenches, grinder stands, etc. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!prism!gt0035b Fri Nov 12 13:44:28 EST 1993 Article: 2723 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!prism!gt0035b From: gt0035b@prism.gatech.EDU (Henry Sommer) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Neophyte Welding Message-ID: <122818@hydra.gatech.EDU> Date: 11 Nov 93 02:07:53 GMT References: <2bonc7$j5d@delphinium.rtsg.mot.com> Sender: news@prism.gatech.EDU Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Lines: 27 In article <2bonc7$j5d@delphinium.rtsg.mot.com>, David A. Sticha wrote: >It will mostly be steel or cast iron, but it would be nice if I could also >handle aluminum, brass, etc. I maybe wrong but I don't think cast iron can really be welded sucessfully. There are probably a few pros that can do it but the only thing I've ever seen work was brazing. Does the net know of any triks to weld cast iron? As just mentioned here recently you can weld Al with a tourch. I beleive it gives you a softer weld because the heat is spread out more. I don't know anything about brass but if it can't be welded I'm sure there is a way to braze it somehow. BTW does anyone one know of some good books on brazing. As an engineer I kind of like leaving the material properties of the parent material intact but I don't know enough about brazing to trust for strucuaral aplications yet. If you buy a mig welder look into the posabilty of get one you can up grade to a Tig I don't know how reasonable that is considering most tigs go for around 2000-4000$ as I've seen them. good luck -- gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu Georgia Institute of Technology From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!csd.unb.ca!mta.ca!AKARPOWICZ Fri Nov 12 13:44:29 EST 1993 Article: 2724 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!csd.unb.ca!mta.ca!AKARPOWICZ From: akarpowicz@mta.ca (Adam Karpowicz) Subject: SS rods Message-ID: <1993Nov11.023420.26702@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> Sender: news@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca Reply-To: akarpowicz@mta.ca Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 02:34:20 GMT Lines: 15 I am posting this for a friend. He wants to make a large number of stainless steel (#316) 1/2" diam. rods, lengths from 24" to 60", with one end twisted like a corkscrew and the other end flattened. The rods are to be bent somewhat in the middle. He is thinking about making or buying a furnace to heat the rods. The question is how large a furnace would be needed for that (the lengths of formed ends and the bent centre would not be more than 10"), specifically its required wattage? How such a project would be approached most effectively? He just lost his job, has a lot of experience in metal/woodworking and this order would be his chance to start a new career. Thanks in advance Adam Karpowicz akarpowicz@mta.ca From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Fri Nov 12 13:44:30 EST 1993 Article: 2725 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Neophyte Welding Date: 11 Nov 1993 08:29:00 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 45 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2bst4c$fsn@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: <2bonc7$j5d@delphinium.rtsg.mot.com> <122818@hydra.gatech.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk In article <122818@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt0035b@prism.gatech.EDU (Henry Sommer) writes: |> |> In article <2bonc7$j5d@delphinium.rtsg.mot.com>, |> David A. Sticha wrote: |> |> >It will mostly be steel or cast iron, but it would be nice if I |> could also |> >handle aluminum, brass, etc. |> |> I maybe wrong but I don't think cast iron can really be welded |> sucessfully. There are probably a few pros that can do it but the |> only |> thing I've ever seen work was brazing. Does the net know of any |> triks to |> weld cast iron? I believe it involves heating the cast iron up to near red hot before welding, then letting it cool very slowly (in the ashes of a hearth was suggested). This avoids stress cracking. |> I don't know anything about brass but if it can't be welded I'm |> sure there is a way to braze it somehow. BTW does anyone one know of some |> good books on brazing. As an engineer I kind of like leaving the material |> properties of the parent material intact but I don't know enough about |> brazing to trust for strucuaral aplications yet. There's little point in welding brass, as it can be melted with just a propane torch. Brazing literally means "joining metal using brass", although it covers silver soldering as well these days. A silver solder joint should be stronger than the surrounding brass. I know one good UK book for brazing, but I doubt if you will get it in the USA - try looking in "Live Steam" or "Home Shop Machinist" for USA books. -- David Jenkins * All incorrect spelling and grammar is intentional. Corrections are * * superfluous and will be ignored. So there. * From samba.oit.unc.edu!cheech Fri Nov 12 13:44:31 EST 1993 Article: 2726 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!cheech From: cheech@med.unc.edu (cheech@ocean.med.unc.edu (Greg Young)) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Anvils Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 12 Nov 1993 15:39:12 GMT Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine Lines: 35 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2c0an0$52v@samba.oit.unc.edu> References: <1993Nov8.230738.13159@mmm.mmm.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hasty.med.unc.edu Summary: Care to share any tips Keywords: anvil In article lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) writes: > > >You can also MAKE one out of old railroad track, a cutting torch, a good >grinder and some time. Warning: Do not use railroad track that is in current >use by trains . > >I made one like this and I am extremely happy with it. I think if more people >had anvils, they might be less likely to beat their wives and kids as well. >-- >The Lottery is a Tax on those who can't do Math! > - heard on UseNet >Kevin Martinez >lps@rahul.net Kevin, Would you share some tips on how to best accomplish the track to anvil conversion? I have this chunk of big railroad track (wife's uncle is retired from the railroad, long story) but I haven't tackled it yet because I'm not sure of the best way to go about it. Obviously the top needs flattening (this is unused track) and the sides made perpendicular to the top. I'm not sure what other modifications are practical, but it sure would be nice to have a horn. Has anybody written "How to Make an Anvil from Railroad Track for Those Who are Too Cheap to Spring for a Real Anvil"? Thanks, Greg cheech@med.unc.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!usenet.ccur.com!john Sat Nov 13 12:20:24 EST 1993 Article: 2727 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!usenet.ccur.com!john From: john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) Subject: Re: To MIG or Not Message-ID: Sender: usenet@westford.ccur.com (UNIX News) Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford, MA References: Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 16:25:19 GMT Lines: 52 In article hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: >>>>>> On Tue, 9 Nov 1993 05:40:43 GMT, john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) said: > >John> In article johnsey@whale.st.usm.edu (Gary Johnsey) writes: : >I replied to Gary by Email and supposed he was talking about the >Hobart Handler 120. This comes *standard* with a gas solenoid valve >and can handle .020 and .045 wire with a single feed roller, just >different tips. IMHO, the disadvantage of lugging a gas bottle around >far outweigh having to chip and clean after welding. : >SS and mild steel can both be welded with 25/75 argon/CO2 gas mixture. I guess I was a bit vague. The portability I was was thinking of was more of lugging the welder up/down stairs, toss it in the back of the pickup, etc.. If you have your MIG in the shop on a roll-around cart go for the gas setup. Do you get a reasonable weld in SS and AL with the Ar/CO2 mixture? I've seen further recommendations to back-flood SS welds with He/Ar/CO2 as well to minimize discoloration. Actually I didn't realize what slag was until I used an AC buzz box. The minimum slag deposits from fluxcore wire I usually run (Lincon, I think) almost allow you to omit cleanup between multiple passes for grunge utility welding. : >In my experience, the 20% duty cycle is plenty for most home shop >applications. No matter how much you are welding, unless it is >production work, it is really hard to be welding 2 minutes out of >every 10 minutes. Usually, but I've managed to pop the thermal cutoff on my welder a few times especially when first learning. More importantly the duty cycle at max amperage is an indication of how much copper and steel are in that transformer and inductor. In general a higher duty cycle usually means a more durable welder. Although, my inexpensive 20% MIG will probably outlive me. Something else I forgot to mention is that mig wire typically (well, around here) is sold in 1#, 2# and 10# spools. If you use your welder occasionally you may encounter problems with surface oxidation of steel and Al wire. This causes conductivity woes between the gun tip and the wire itself. Smaller wire rolls have shorter lives and are less apt to surface oxidize. I haven't myself had this problem (yet) with uncoated wire. Steel wire is also available with a thin copper plating which presumably makes it less susceptible to rust. I have heard some welding people complain of the copper flaking off inside the gun hose liner and causing all sorts of feed problems. I would assume this is only in commercial use. Anyway, just my two cents. -john From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson Sat Nov 13 12:20:25 EST 1993 Article: 2728 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson From: pjackson@netcom.com (Phillip Jackson) Subject: Propane Forge? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 16:22:14 GMT Lines: 13 I want to buy or make a propane fired forge. Has anyone out there had experience with the Whisper line of forges offered by the NC Tool Company? Their "WhisperDaddy #2" has a 6x12x9 firebox and sells for $485 plus shipping. Is this a good buy? What alternatives are there? Any advice appreciated. Phill -- pjackson@netcom.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!news.itd.umich.edu!spencer Sat Nov 13 12:20:25 EST 1993 Article: 2729 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!news.itd.umich.edu!spencer From: spencer@med.umich.edu (Spencer W. Thomas) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Cutting chrome plated tubing? Date: 11 Nov 93 12:14:00 Organization: University of Michigan HSITN Lines: 32 Distribution: na Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: guraldi.itn.med.umich.edu In-reply-to: spencer@med.umich.edu's message of 5 Nov 93 10:16:57 I'd like to thank all of you who responded to my query. The advice I got included 1. Hit it with a belt sander. Sounded easy, at least. 2. Tubing cutters come big enough, easily. Some concern about damage to the chrome, one person suggested trying to find a cutter with plastic wheels. Another wondered whether a layer of paper tape would protect it sufficiently. 3. EDM (if I want to spend LOTS of $$$) 4. Use a small abrasive cut-off wheel in a Dremel tool. (I'd be concerned about cutting a straight line.) What did I end up doing? None of the above -- my wife decided she didn't want to risk it, and went back to the cabinet shop with them and they figured out a totally different solution involving an end panel with little adjustable feet instead of legs. The nice part of this from my point of view is that they've got a "tame" cabinetmaker who will fab the thing, and the cost is about the same as the stock legs. If it had been up to me, I probably would have tried the tubing cutter approach, probably consulting with a friendly, knowledgeable hardware store employee first. It seems to have the least potential for rapid, irreversable damage. And once again, I'm impressed with the depth and helpfullness of the net. -- =Spencer W. Thomas | Info Tech and Networking, B1911 CFOB, 0704 "Genome Informatician" | Univ of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu | 313-764-8065, FAX 313-764-4133 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!infiniti!kish Sat Nov 13 12:20:26 EST 1993 Article: 2730 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!infiniti!kish From: kish@watson.ibm.com (Bill Kish) Subject: Re: Tig welding Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 20:52:18 GMT Reply-To: kish@infiniti.watson.ibm.com (Bill Kish) Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM. References: <1993Nov9.223551.24610@trl.oz.au> <1993Nov10.153021.21740@mlb.semi.harris.com> <1993Nov10.130856.139@flying-disk.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: infiniti.watson.ibm.com Organization: IBM TJ Watson Research Lines: 53 In article <1993Nov10.130856.139@flying-disk.com>, frisbie@flying-disk.com writes: |> I already have an oxy-acetylene welding/cutting rig and |> have just knowledge/experience to keep out of major |> trouble. |> |> Now I would like to get either a MIG or TIG outfit and |> need some advice on which to get. |> |> The project I am buying this for is the restoration of |> an old automobile. The floor panels are rusted to the |> point that I can see light through the pinholes. |> Fortunately, replacement panels are available. |> Unfortunately, the area that needs to be replaced is |> much smaller than the whole panel, and the edges of |> the whole panel are not easy to get at. |> |> What I want to do is cut out the rusted section and a |> matching section from the new panel, then weld the |> new section in place. The problem is that I want |> the joint to be as invisible as possible. The panel |> is generally flat, but with 1/2" wide stiffening |> channels stamped in it. |> |> Is MIG or TIG (or some other process) the best for this |> type of job? Is there anything else I should consider? |> |> The second type of job I envision for my new welder is |> the usual 1/16" to 1/4" steel fabrication jobs such as |> workbenches, grinder stands, etc. |> |> Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me. |> |> -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com |> -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. |> -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) |> -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) You should be able to do a better job of installing the patches using your oxy-acetylene torch than with a MIG. If you do a good job of gas welding the panels (Take care to tack the panel in place, weld short sections and let cool, etc) you can get a nearly invisable butt joint in 18Ga steel. A MIG joint will require a "v" to fill which is unsightly. Check into some auto-restoration books for hints on welding sheet metal. Also Ron Fournier's "sheet metal handbook" is a very good reference for this type of work. -Bill Kish From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!pacbell.com!unet!voyager!rmt Sat Nov 13 12:20:26 EST 1993 Article: 2731 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!pacbell.com!unet!voyager!rmt From: rmt@voyager.net.com (Richard Tweedie) Subject: Re: Anvils Message-ID: <1993Nov12.202047.3495@unet.net.com> Keywords: anvil Sender: news@unet.net.com Nntp-Posting-Host: voyager Organization: Network Equipment Technologies References: <1993Nov8.230738.13159@mmm.mmm.com> <2c0an0$52v@samba.oit.unc.edu> Distribution: na Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 20:20:47 GMT Lines: 46 In article <2c0an0$52v@samba.oit.unc.edu> cheech@med.unc.edu (cheech@ocean.med.unc.edu (Greg Young)) writes: >In article lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) writes: >> >> >>You can also MAKE one out of old railroad track, a cutting torch, a good >>grinder and some time. Warning: Do not use railroad track that is in current >>use by trains . >> >>I made one like this and I am extremely happy with it. I think if more people >>had anvils, they might be less likely to beat their wives and kids as well. >>-- >>The Lottery is a Tax on those who can't do Math! >> - heard on UseNet >>Kevin Martinez >>lps@rahul.net > >Kevin, > >Would you share some tips on how to best accomplish the track to anvil >conversion? > >I have this chunk of big railroad track (wife's uncle is retired from >the railroad, long story) but I haven't tackled it yet because I'm >not sure of the best way to go about it. Obviously the top needs >flattening (this is unused track) and the sides made perpendicular >to the top. I'm not sure what other modifications are practical, >but it sure would be nice to have a horn. > >Has anybody written "How to Make an Anvil from Railroad Track for >Those Who are Too Cheap to Spring for a Real Anvil"? > >Thanks, > >Greg >cheech@med.unc.edu > My brother made me (~80 lb) anvil for christmas one year. He started with 4" square scrap steel, welding a shorter section underneath the top. The rest of the procedure whould probably work on the railroad track. He roughed out the anvil heel and horn with a cutting torch. Then a body grinder with a COARSE disk, followed by finer disks. Came out great. He was going to use hard surfacing rod on the top, but ran out of time. It is hard enough in any case. Rich Tweedie From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!whale.st.usm.edu!johnsey.st.usm.edu!user Sun Nov 14 19:52:20 EST 1993 Article: 2732 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!whale.st.usm.edu!johnsey.st.usm.edu!user From: johnsey@whale.st.usm.edu (Gary Johnsey) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: To MIG or Not Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 12 Nov 1993 23:21:19 GMT Organization: Univ of Southern Ms Lines: 29 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: johnsey.st.usm.edu >I have always wanted (not needed, but wanted) a welding outfit. I now have >one and have been studying and practicing. I am told that a MIG outfit can >...... >..... could have it for $350. ...... >....... Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions. I have made the decision to purchase the Hobart 120. And, with your advice, public and private, I have made a better deal. I asked the salesman if he would take less and he said, "OK, $300." He is also going to put on a new wire-feed-hose and a new wire-feed wheel (I forget what he called it). He will also have someone demonstrate when I go by to pick it up so I still have an opportunity to refuse it (but most likely not). Your comments were more "information packed" than the books I am reading. I will print and bind them along with other selections from this group. Now to find some scrap iron or, if unlucky, redefine some finished products as scrap. And a project or two. Let's see. That gal bucket my wife uses to was her car could use some leggs, so she doesn't have to bend over so far, and maybe some hooks for rags and brushes. Thanks again. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!a2i!lps Sun Nov 14 19:52:20 EST 1993 Article: 2733 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!a2i!lps From: lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) Subject: Re: Anvils Message-ID: Keywords: anvil Sender: news@rahul.net (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: bolero Organization: a2i network References: <1993Nov8.230738.13159@mmm.mmm.com> Distribution: na Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 01:34:47 GMT Lines: 29 In <1993Nov12.202047.3495@unet.net.com> rmt@voyager.net.com (Richard Tweedie) writes: >My brother made me (~80 lb) anvil for christmas one year. He started >with 4" square scrap steel, welding a shorter section underneath the >top. The rest of the procedure whould probably work on the railroad >track. He roughed out the anvil heel and horn with a cutting torch. >Then a body grinder with a COARSE disk, followed by finer disks. Came >out great. He was going to use hard surfacing rod on the top, but >ran out of time. It is hard enough in any case. >Rich Tweedie Essentially, this is all I did except I watched alot of coyote and roadrunner cartoons first to make a sketch of the anvil from.( there always seems to be one dropping off a cliff on that show) In addition, I went to the hardware store looking for anvils to copy and found out I liked the cartoon version better. I used a makita 5" high speed grinder to finish the torch cutting marks and couldn't stop until I had the whole thing polished. I intended to cut some holes in the bas so I could bolt it down but it proved heavy enough not to need this. A good coat of oil has kept it rust free for two years now. Pictures anyone? -- The Lottery is a Tax on those who can't do Math! - heard on UseNet Kevin Martinez lps@rahul.net From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!euler.Berkeley.EDU!gaudio Sun Nov 14 19:52:21 EST 1993 Article: 2734 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!euler.Berkeley.EDU!gaudio From: gaudio@euler.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Gaudio) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Anvils Date: 14 Nov 1993 01:53:33 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Lines: 11 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2c432t$qd6@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <1993Nov8.230738.13159@mmm.mmm.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: euler.berkeley.edu Keywords: anvil In article , Kevin Martinez wrote: >Essentially, this is all I did except I watched alot of coyote and roadrunner >cartoons first to make a sketch of the anvil from.( there always seems to be >one dropping off a cliff on that show) In addition, I went to the hardware I wonder what kind of quantity discount Wyle E. Coyote (genius) got from Acme. Call their studios to see if there's surplus. -steve. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!a2i!lps Sun Nov 14 19:52:22 EST 1993 Article: 2735 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!a2i!lps From: lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) Subject: Re: Anvils Message-ID: Keywords: anvil acme Sender: news@rahul.net (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: bolero Organization: a2i network References: <1993Nov8.230738.13159@mmm.mmm.com> Distribution: na Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 04:17:50 GMT Lines: 17 In <2c432t$qd6@agate.berkeley.edu> gaudio@euler.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Gaudio) writes: >I wonder what kind of quantity discount Wyle E. Coyote (genius) got from >Acme. Call their studios to see if there's surplus. >-steve. I understand that there are piles of anvils for the taking at the base of certain cliffs. If only I knew which state to start looking in! ;^) -- File not found Loading something similar... GS/M -d+(-) -p+(-) c++ l+ u e+ m---(*) s++/++ n+(--) h f+ g++(-) w+ t- r++ y? GCS/O d- -p+ c+ !l u+ e+ m+ s++/ !n(---) h f+ g+ w+++ t+ r(-) y? From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!heimdall!sdrc.com!brian.morgan Mon Nov 15 19:33:20 EST 1993 Article: 2736 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!heimdall!sdrc.com!brian.morgan From: brian.morgan@sdrc.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Anvils Message-ID: <4871@heimdall.sdrc.com> Date: 15 Nov 93 15:39:37 GMT References: <1993Nov8.230738.13159@mmm.mmm.com> <2c0an0$52v@samba.oit.unc.edu> Sender: news@heimdall.sdrc.com Distribution: usa Organization: SDRC Lines: 19 In article <2c0an0$52v@samba.oit.unc.edu> cheech@med.unc.edu (cheech@ocean.med.unc.edu (Greg Young)) writes: >In article lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) writes: >> >> >>You can also MAKE one out of old railroad track, a cutting torch, a good >>grinder and some time. Warning: Do not use railroad track that is in current >>use by trains . Where can I get a piece of track? Since you pointed out that I shouldn't use anything currently in use... Are there scrap yards that carry track? Can I call a train yard and ask for scrap? Tell me where to go :-} (I'm in Cincinnati) Thanks, Brian From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!craig Thu Nov 18 18:27:39 EST 1993 Article: 2737 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!craig From: craig@hpcvxcd.cv.hp.com (Craig Durland) Subject: Re: Tig welding Message-ID: <1993Nov15.235958.6009@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> Sender: nobody@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com (Nobody - UID must be 99999) Nntp-Posting-Host: hpcvxcd.cv.hp.com Reply-To: craig@cv.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0.8] References: Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 23:59:58 GMT Lines: 19 David Erickson (erickson@cs.nps.navy.mil) wrote: > How necessary is a high-frequency attachment and footswitch? I plan > on scratch-starting. What will I gain from the high-frequency > attachment? You might want to check the power requirements for the high-freq unit - my welding store told me 150 amps @ 220 for the welding I was interested in. > What polarity works best with TIG? Should the welder be set to DC- or > DC+? DC straight for steel. If you use reverse, you might melt the torch (assuming air cooled). At the least you will get a very hot hand. Also, reverse has very little penetration. Craig Durland (503) 750-3354 Hewlett-Packard, 1000 NE Circle, Corvallis, OR 97330 craig@cv.hp.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!munnari.oz.au!goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au!aggedor.rmit.OZ.AU!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!pcies4.trl.OZ.AU!drew Thu Nov 18 18:27:41 EST 1993 Article: 2738 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!munnari.oz.au!goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au!aggedor.rmit.OZ.AU!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!pcies4.trl.OZ.AU!drew From: drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond) Subject: Re: lathe differences Message-ID: Lines: 40 Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research References: <2bu6na$3c6@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 00:29:56 GMT In article <2bu6na$3c6@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) writes: >From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) >Subject: lathe differences >Date: 11 Nov 1993 20:18:50 GMT > >yesterday I went to a machine tool trade show. I picked up an number of >catalogs from used machinery companies. Looking through these last night, >I realized that I don't know the difference between a: >"Lathe", >"Toolroom Lathe", and >"Engine Lathe". > >Can someone explain what difference, if any, there is between these >designations? > >JK Hello John. The lathe catagories are fairly blurred. However, a machine calling itself a "toolroom lathe" or "instrument makers" lathe should be capable of working to fine tolerances (in the hands of a good worker). It probably comes "fully colleted", meaning that a set of collets for round (and perhaps hex) stock is provided, although 4 and 3-jaw chucks may be applied to less accurate work. The standard of construction is very high. Typical examples would be a Hardinge (beautiful!- English) or Schaublin (Swiss). "Engine lathe" I think is a rather old-fashioned term used to describe a machine which is powered by (say) an electric motor, rather than by foot treadle or hand. One so described may even be of the old over-head belt arrangement, where the power for the machine-shop was provided by a large engine (probably steam), and transmitted to a host of machines via overhead shafts, and connected to individual units via an endless flat belt. Something called a "lathe" could be practically anything- from a toolroom to a woodworking machine. Regards, Drew. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news Thu Nov 18 18:27:42 EST 1993 Article: 2739 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: formula for small drill sizes? Message-ID: Sender: news@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 02:11:32 GMT Lines: 11 There has been a thread over on rec.models.railroad about small drill sizes. I seem to recall reading somewhere a formula that would give you the number for a given drill based on its diameter. Am I right? If yes, anyone know the formula? I seem to recall it was for #1-60 or something like that.... ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!vanbc.wimsey.com!not-for-mail Thu Nov 18 18:27:43 EST 1993 Article: 2740 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!vanbc.wimsey.com!not-for-mail From: mfraser@vanbc.wimsey.com (Mark Fraser) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe differences Date: 15 Nov 1993 21:18:12 -0800 Organization: Wimsey Information Services Lines: 6 Message-ID: <2c9nqk$atk@vanbc.wimsey.com> References: <2bu6na$3c6@tymix.Tymnet.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: vanbc.wimsey.com Doesn't the term "engine" apply to those units with the ability to follow patterns, do threads etc. - "this is an engine that makes threaded taper rods..." /mark From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Thu Nov 18 18:27:44 EST 1993 Article: 2741 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: lathe differences Organization: AT&T Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 13:50:51 GMT Message-ID: References: Lines: 62 >From article , by drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond): > In article <2bu6na$3c6@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) writes: >>From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) >>Subject: lathe differences >>Date: 11 Nov 1993 20:18:50 GMT >> >>yesterday I went to a machine tool trade show. I picked up an number of >>catalogs from used machinery companies. Looking through these last night, >>I realized that I don't know the difference between a: >>"Lathe", >>"Toolroom Lathe", and >>"Engine Lathe". >> >>Can someone explain what difference, if any, there is between these >>designations? >> >>JK > > Hello John. > > The lathe catagories are fairly blurred. However, a machine calling > itself a "toolroom lathe" or "instrument makers" lathe should be capable > of working to fine tolerances (in the hands of a good worker). It > probably comes "fully colleted", meaning that a set of collets for round > (and perhaps hex) stock is provided, although 4 and 3-jaw chucks may be > applied to less accurate work. The standard of construction is very > high. Typical examples would be a Hardinge (beautiful!- English) or > Schaublin (Swiss). I believe that there are two different animals being addressed here. A "tool maker's lathe" is what Drew describes above. In addition to the above description, they frequently come without a lead screw. Thus there is no thread cutting ability, and no power feeds on either axis. On my dad's Schaublin, and I believe on the corresponding Hardinge, there is no carriage feed. All longitudinal motion is provided with the compound. The carriage can be moved to another location on the bed by loosening a locking handscrew. An indexing mechanism is provided on the compound angle, so that it can be set very accurately to 0 degrees (and also to +-45 degrees). A "toolroom lathe" is a term applied to an upgraded and more fully equipped engine lathe. My 10" South Bend is the toolroom lathe version. It came standard with the collet closer (but not collets), the taper attachment, a graduated tailstock wheel, and probably a few other gadgets I don't recollect at the moment. Most (all?) of these were available separately as options on the basic lathe. I think the distinction arose from the application. A lathe purchased for a production application would be provided only with the options that application required, rather than being equipped to to handle any generic lathe application. By contrast, the lathe in the toolroom at the factory needed to be versatile enough to handle a wide variety of tasks. I'm not aware of where the term "engine lathe" arose, or what distinguishes it from a "lathe". The South Bend catalog of 1958, if I recollect, refers to all of the non-toolroom lathes as engine lathes. By 1958 they all had separate motors, so Drew's explanation fits. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!news.shef.ac.uk!sunc!ci1tr Thu Nov 18 18:27:44 EST 1993 Article: 2742 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!news.shef.ac.uk!sunc!ci1tr From: ci1tr@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk (T Robinson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: CNC Milling Machine Date: 16 Nov 1993 10:03:10 GMT Organization: Academic Computing Services, Sheffield University Lines: 13 Message-ID: <2ca8gu$3qn@silver.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: sunc.shef.ac.uk Summary: Serial interfacing of CNC miller to PC compatible Keywords: CNC, Bosch, PC, Miller X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I need to interface a Bosch CC 100 M Miller to a PC through RS232. If anyone has any experience of this I would be grateful for any tips they can give me, particularly on the make up of the cable. Thanks Tim Robinson From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!euler.Berkeley.EDU!jmorton Thu Nov 18 18:27:45 EST 1993 Article: 2743 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!euler.Berkeley.EDU!jmorton From: jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: formula for small drill sizes? Date: 16 Nov 1993 15:28:41 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Lines: 16 Message-ID: <2carj9$rpo@agate.berkeley.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: euler.berkeley.edu In article , Greg Lewis wrote: > > >There has been a thread over on rec.models.railroad about small drill >sizes. I seem to recall reading somewhere a formula that would give >you the number for a given drill based on its diameter. Am I right? If >yes, anyone know the formula? I seem to recall it was for #1-60 or >something like that.... Not likely. Just read a table of diameters and numbers, and you will see there is no rhyme or reason to this system :-). John Morton University of California jmorton@euler.berkeley.edu Mechanical Engineering {decvax,cbosgd}!ucbvax!euler!jmorton Machine Shop From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson Thu Nov 18 18:27:45 EST 1993 Article: 2744 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson From: pjackson@netcom.com (Phillip Jackson) Subject: Re: Anvils Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] References: <16C87D4D6.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 15:27:51 GMT Lines: 26 : >lps@rahul.net : : Now, you have got me curious. Exactly what constitutes an "anvil?" : My local scrap yard sold me a 1 foot piece of 12x12" I beam with : 1" web thickness for about $20 (20 cents per pound). I stand it : on its side, edge or end depending on what I am doing. Is this : an "anvil?" It suits my purposes, and is a lot cheaper than the : prices quoted here for "real" anvils. : : ..Richard E+17 : Richard, I don't know if there's any official designation. I think what you describe is a piece of steel you are -using as an anvil-. I do that too, but having olwned a -real- anvil of traditional shape, I would never confuse the things. A -real-anvil has more uses than banking something flat on a hard surface. The horn allows stretching and curving forms and the hardy hole accepts shaping forms and cut off tools. A -real- anvil has a hard table for hammer work and a soft table for cut off work, etc. PS Make that -banking- in line 4 -banging-. Internet is hell on editing. Phill -- pjackson@netcom.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Thu Nov 18 18:27:46 EST 1993 Article: 2745 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe differences Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 16 Nov 1993 17:27:32 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article , fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) wrote: > > From article , by drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond): > > In article <2bu6na$3c6@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) writes: > >>From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) > >>Subject: lathe differences > >>Date: 11 Nov 1993 20:18:50 GMT [............] > > high. Typical examples would be a Hardinge (beautiful!- English) ............. > axis. On my dad's Schaublin, and I believe on the corresponding > Hardinge, there is no carriage feed............ I hate to throw cold water on all the misinformation being provided, but I have a Hardinge out in my shop. The cast doors on the pedestals say Hardinge, Chicago (Chicago, England, maybe?). I wrote to the current factory in Connecticut (or maybe Mass.) to discover the antecedents of my lathe (#252) and they wrote back that all records had been destroyed in a fire in 1925 or 1926, at which point they had made 5000 lathes. This puts mine about 1916, since they began production in 1915. Subsequently they moved back east and continue to produce one of the most elegant, accurate toolroom lathes in existence. Like my 1916 version, modern Hardinge toolroom lathes have all feeds and a lead screw and are distinguished by their dovetail ways. I look at my lathe and I can see where all the modern features had their genesis. What Frank may be describing is often known as a watchmaker's lathe. These were small lathes having no feeds or lead screws and were usually used by watchmakers to turn the pins that fit into jewel bearings. Gary From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!gumby!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Thu Nov 18 18:27:47 EST 1993 Article: 2746 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!gumby!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe differences Date: 16 Nov 1993 18:00:03 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2cb4f3$2nq@oak.oakland.edu> References: Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article 161193091645@b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov, gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes: ... > >What Frank may be describing is often known as a watchmaker's lathe. These >were small lathes having no feeds or lead screws and were usually used by >watchmakers to turn the pins that fit into jewel bearings. > And to cut wheels (gears) as well. A watchmaker's lathe is like a tiny wood lathe with a headstock that uses collets. Most have indexing holes in the headstock pully to allow gears to be cut. That's the old-style watchmaker's lathe. Modern watchmaker's lathes have compound rests, but still do not, for the most part, have lead screws. There are, of course, exceptions to everything... --mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!db21 Thu Nov 18 18:27:47 EST 1993 Article: 2747 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!db21 From: db21@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (david.beyerl) Subject: Re: formula for small drill sizes? Organization: AT&T Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 17:56:43 GMT Message-ID: Summary: There is a formula but it is for the nominal OD of the machine screw. References: Lines: 25 In article , gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: > > > There has been a thread over on rec.models.railroad about small drill > sizes. I seem to recall reading somewhere a formula that would give > you the number for a given drill based on its diameter. Am I right? If > yes, anyone know the formula? I seem to recall it was for #1-60 or While I am not aware of a formula to give the number of a drill based on its diameter, I am aware of a formula to give the nominal OD of a machine screw. Starting with a #0 screw at 0.060 diameter, add 0.013 for each number size above 0, ie. Screw Size 0 0.060 1 0.073 2 0.086 3 0.099 4 0.112 5 0.125 From this information, one can determine what size drill to use when drilling the clearance hole for the screw. Dave Beyerl From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!nwnexus!neilm Thu Nov 18 18:27:48 EST 1993 Article: 2748 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Engines (was: lathe differences) Date: 16 Nov 1993 09:29:10 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 27 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <2c9nqk$atk@vanbc.wimsey.com> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92s (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <2c9nqk$atk@vanbc.wimsey.com> mfraser@vanbc.wimsey.com writes: > > Doesn't the term "engine" apply to those units with the ability to follow > patterns, do threads etc. - "this is an engine that makes threaded taper > rods..." I believe "engine" was originally applied to any "mechanical contrivance." Shares a common root with "ingenious" and "ingenuity." In older texts I see "engine" used the same way more recent ones use "device." This seems to have continued in the British Isles for some time after we in North America began using it to mean "powerplant." (Some yank probably got tired of saying "locomotive.") Maybe it just depends on where and when the lathe was made? As long as I'm this close to being off topic: In today's usage, what's the difference between an "engine" and a "motor?" Power source, ie., steam or internal combustion versus electricity? Relative number of moving parts? Etymologically yours, Neil -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Thu Nov 18 18:27:49 EST 1993 Article: 2749 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: lathe differences Organization: AT&T Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 19:36:19 GMT Message-ID: References: Lines: 53 >From article , by gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot): > In article , fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com > (f.w.kerfoot..iii) wrote: >> >> From article , by drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond): >> > In article <2bu6na$3c6@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) writes: >> >>From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) >> >>Subject: lathe differences >> >>Date: 11 Nov 1993 20:18:50 GMT > > [............] > >> > high. Typical examples would be a Hardinge (beautiful!- English) > ............. >> axis. On my dad's Schaublin, and I believe on the corresponding >> Hardinge, there is no carriage feed............ > > I hate to throw cold water on all the misinformation being provided, but I > have a Hardinge out in my shop. The cast doors on the pedestals say > Hardinge, Chicago (Chicago, England, maybe?). I wrote to the current I also thought I remembered that Hardinge was a US company, but didn't have anything handy (like a Hardinge lathe) which would verify my memory. > factory in Connecticut (or maybe Mass.) to discover the antecedents of my > lathe (#252) and they wrote back that all records had been destroyed in a > fire in 1925 or 1926, at which point they had made 5000 lathes. This puts > mine about 1916, since they began production in 1915. Subsequently they > moved back east and continue to produce one of the most elegant, accurate > toolroom lathes in existence. Like my 1916 version, modern Hardinge > toolroom lathes have all feeds and a lead screw and are distinguished by > their dovetail ways. I look at my lathe and I can see where all the modern > features had their genesis. > > What Frank may be describing is often known as a watchmaker's lathe. These > were small lathes having no feeds or lead screws and were usually used by > watchmakers to turn the pins that fit into jewel bearings. As Gary states, Hardinge also makes toolroom lathes, which have leadscrews and feeds. I was not trying to imply otherwise. However, both Hardinge and Shaublin make examples of a class of lathes which are significantly larger than traditional watchmaker's lathes (the Shaublin is about an 8" swing, and would support workpieces up to perhaps 24" long- I believe that the Hardinge equivalent is in the same size class) which I believe have traditionally been called tool maker's lathes. The whole distinction I was trying to draw was the "toolroom" versus "tool maker's" lathe distinction, which seems to have gotten lost on Gary, who has a Hardinge TOOLROOM lathe with a lead screw and feeds (not surprisingly). Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!rpi!edgarm Thu Nov 18 18:27:49 EST 1993 Article: 2750 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!rpi!edgarm From: edgarm@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Etching - How'd they do that? Date: 16 Nov 1993 20:20:36 GMT Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Lines: 34 Message-ID: <2cbcmk$ch3@usenet.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: marcus.its.rpi.edu Greetings, Does anyone out there know about etching? I was in the Franklin Mint Museum the other day and saw a copper plate that was used for embossing a decorative design on book covers. The informational blurb next to the plate said they use a photoetch process to go from the art work to the plate. The thing that seemed strange was that the plate had no under-cut. That is it looked like this, TOP Resist ____ | | / \ / \ ___________________ I assume the process used to make the plate is something like, 1. Create art work on paper, 2. Transfer artwork to the copper using photoresist, 3. Develope resist, 4. Etch. The question I have is, what conditions and setup is needed so that the etch does not eat in under the resist? That is, can the draft of the etch be controlled? Does anyone know of any reference books on how to do this sort of thing? Thanks for your interest. Marc Edgar edgarm@rpi.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!s1.gov!lws Thu Nov 18 18:27:50 EST 1993 Article: 2751 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!s1.gov!lws From: lws@s1.gov (Lee W. Spencer) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Tig welding Date: 17 Nov 1993 00:37:38 GMT Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Lab Lines: 6 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2cbroi$mpt@s1.gov> References: <1993Nov16.230503.21063@trl.oz.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: s1.gov Originator: lws@s1.gov The high frequency is necessary to start the arc when using DC. The high frequency is run continuously when using AC because the arc tends to blow out when the waveform crosses zero. Aluminum is welded with AC, and thus continuous high frequency. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!cvs.rochester.edu!pkg Thu Nov 18 18:27:51 EST 1993 Article: 2752 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!cvs.rochester.edu!pkg From: pkg@swift.cvs.rochester.edu (Paul Gloger) Subject: Re: Engines (was: lathe differences) Message-ID: Sender: news@galileo.cc.rochester.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: swift.cvs.rochester.edu Organization: University of Rochester Computing Center References: <2c9nqk$atk@vanbc.wimsey.com> <2cbe3k$gll@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: 17 Nov 93 00:45:54 GMT Lines: 33 >In a previous article, neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) asks: >>what's the difference between an "engine" and a "motor?" To which Michael Burlage replies: >Gasoline ENGINE >Electric MOTOR >It has to do with the power source. Well, then, what about my MOTOR cycle? No, friends, the real difference between "engine" and "motor" is not one of "true" meaning, but simply a difference in usage, and the same holds for a host of other word pairs as well. The difference is that we call some things motors and some engines. It's as simple as that. Paul K. Gloger C.B.E. Engineering pkg@merlin.cvs.rochester.edu >BTW, I belive the term "engine lathe" refers to the old days >when most lathes were run f rom a water-wheel. >engine lathes did not need a water-wheel as they had there >own "engine" >may or may not be true, who knows? >-- >"Onward through the fog" > - Power-Hitter >bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu >mburlage@heartland.bradley.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Thu Nov 18 18:27:51 EST 1993 Article: 2753 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe differences Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 17 Nov 1993 00:38:23 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <2cbf4o$c3o@agate.berkeley.edu> <2cbh3d$q10@tymix.Tymnet.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov Well, somebody had to do it, so I suppose it might as well be me. I cheated and looked "engine" up. Ya got yer choice of 1) a machine for converting thermal energy into force and motion 2) a locomotive 3) a fire engine 4) any mechanical contrivance 5) an instrument of war 6) an instrument of torture Take yer pick. In article <2cbh3d$q10@tymix.Tymnet.COM>, kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) wrote: > > >A toolroom Lathe is a lathe with a short bed. I think I'll look this up in Kent's or Machinery's Handbook. > >....s. ENGINE LATHES are those that the motor drives a transmission > >O.K. ? > Maybe not. According to the above, lathes are engines because they're a mechanical contrivance or they're engine lathes because they're driven by an engine. In modern times this seems like a specious distinction. I used to think it meant they had no lead screw, but since then I've seen "engine lathes" advertised that had lead screws and all the feeds you could want. I've also seen lathes advertised as "geared head", so the geared distinction appears to be separable from "engineness". Maybe it used to mean something, but no longer does? Or maybe they're no longer used as instruments of war or torture. Come to think of it, I've never heard the expression "stretched on a lathe". From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!ssd.intel.com!scic.intel.com!hwilson Thu Nov 18 18:27:52 EST 1993 Article: 2754 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!ssd.intel.com!scic.intel.com!hwilson From: hwilson@scic.intel.com (Howard Wilson VW Microbus-R-Us!) Subject: Purchasing a MIG setup. Message-ID: <1993Nov17.013346.16184@scic.intel.com> Keywords: MIG Sender: hwilson@ssd.intel.com Organization: Intel Corporation, Beaverton, OR Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 01:33:46 GMT Lines: 53 I'm in the market for a MIG welding outfit for home use, specifically to do automobile restoration work. I'm new to metal working and have gained some insight from reading this group and the excellent FAQ sheets that have been provided.... thanks to those involved. Anyway, yesterday I looked at a setup at one of the larger welding supply houses in my area (Portland OR). Here is what was included: Millermatic 130 483 Gas tank -- .75AR/.25CO2 119 Regulator 69 Welder's mask 30 + ------ $ 701 There were two other welders, Lincoln SP100 and Hobart Handler 120 which were comparably priced.....here are a few questions: 1) Is this a reasonable price?... these were prices for the individual components.... what do you think I could get them to knock off for a "package deal"?... anything major left out? 2) Is this type of equipment available through mail order houses?... I have purchased many woodworking tools through various mail order establishments and had very good results so far. There are some Century welders at the local home center but they did not appeared to have a lower quality than the "Big Three". I generally have the attitude when buying woodworking tools in that "you get what you pay for".... which usually translates to "don't buy junky tools from the local home center"! 3) Is this a reasonable assumption when buying tools for metal working? 4) What other hand tools might I consider for metalworking? Any other comments, opinions or advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! -- -- I speak for myself... not Intel... and don't expect any apologies either! -- Howard Wilson Supercomputer Systems Division Intel Corporation Technology Development - Component Technology 5200 NE Elam Young Parkway MS CO5-01 Email: hwilson@ssd.intel.com Hillsboro, OR 97124 Phone: 503-531-5056 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm Thu Nov 18 18:27:52 EST 1993 Article: 2755 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Small Torches for Silversmithing Date: 16 Nov 1993 18:02:03 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 47 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92s (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> edgarm@marcus.its.rpi.edu writes: > > I am just getting into silversmithing and am trying to do it on a > tight budget. The other day I was in a Radio Shack store where I > saw a very small butane torch. It was about 4 inches tall > and took a cartridge refil. > > My question is, are these torches suitable for soldering small > items, like jewelry? I haven't tried one, but the short answer I'll give you is no. I see two problems with them. They don't sound too versatile and I'd guess they're expensive to operate. They may work fine on a very small piece, but silver soaks up heat like a sponge soaks up water. The work itself is going to be drawing heat from the joint as fast as that little flame can pour it in and you'll play hell trying to get it hot enough. Probably work for attaching a bail or soldering jump-rings, but I doubt it would be much good if you wanted to sweat something down to a backing piece. Also, those little CO2 cartridge-sized gas bottles have got to be expensive. If you only use it once in a while it might be okay, but silver work ain't like that. :) I use a Bernz-O-Matic propane-torch-on-a-hose with a "pencil flame" tip (which is still pretty coarse) that cost about $40 a couple of years ago. Atmosphere-acetylene works well too but it's messy (black soot) and you have to buy or lease a tank. Since my shop is inside my house, I'm not sure I want that much bottled gas in there. I stock up on propane bottles when they go on sale (and store them away from where I use 'em), that helps keep fuel prices down. One of these days I'm going to shell out for a "Little Torch" oxy- propane setup. If you want the names of a few suppliers, let me know. Cheers! Neil Proprietor, Some Sort of Silversmith -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!caen!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sal.wisc.edu!zimmer!news Thu Nov 18 18:27:53 EST 1993 Article: 2756 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!caen!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sal.wisc.edu!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: Re: formula-memory refreshed! Message-ID: Sender: Greg Lewis Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno References: Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 04:04:43 GMT Lines: 35 Ah yes! Memory refreshed. It was a formula for screw sizes! THANKS! In article db21@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (david.beyerl) writes: >In article , gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: >> >> >> There has been a thread over on rec.models.railroad about small drill >> sizes. I seem to recall reading somewhere a formula that would give >> you the number for a given drill based on its diameter. Am I right? If >> yes, anyone know the formula? I seem to recall it was for #1-60 or > > While I am not aware of a formula to give the number of a drill >based on its diameter, I am aware of a formula to give the nominal OD of >a machine screw. Starting with a #0 screw at 0.060 diameter, add 0.013 >for each number size above 0, ie. > > Screw Size > 0 0.060 > 1 0.073 > 2 0.086 > 3 0.099 > 4 0.112 > 5 0.125 > > From this information, one can determine what size drill to use >when drilling the clearance hole for the screw. > > Dave Beyerl ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!news.csos.orst.edu!CSOS.ORST.EDU!forbesm Thu Nov 18 18:27:54 EST 1993 Article: 2757 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!news.csos.orst.edu!CSOS.ORST.EDU!forbesm From: forbesm@CSOS.ORST.EDU (Mark Forbes) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Date: 17 Nov 1993 07:35:42 GMT Organization: CS Outreach Services, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR, USA Lines: 14 Message-ID: <2cck8e$888@jadzia.CSOS.ORST.EDU> References: <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: csos.orst.edu Well, I just got my 'Little Torch', and it's *great*!!! The #1 tip is a 3mil hole in a sapphire, and you can't light it with a spark lighter because it's so small. At full throttle it puts out a flame about 1/8 inch long. The neat thing is that the flame is perfectly formed, and hot as a regular welding torch flame. When I put on the large tip (#5), I get a flame about the same size as the #00 (smallest) tip produces on my big torch. It's only about $80 from Rio Grande Albuquerque, and you get the torch and five tips. If you've already got oxyacetlyene, it's a great addition. Mark G. Forbes | forbesm@kira.csos.orst.edu Corvallis, OR | 503 754 3104 home phone | Hardware R & D "Never ascribe to malice that which can be blamed on the engineer." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Thu Nov 18 18:27:54 EST 1993 Article: 2758 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Etching - How'd they do that? Date: 17 Nov 1993 08:35:42 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 52 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2ccnou$e6r@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: <2cbcmk$ch3@usenet.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk In article <2cbcmk$ch3@usenet.rpi.edu>, edgarm@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) writes: |> Greetings, |> |> Does anyone out there know about etching? |> |> I was in the Franklin Mint Museum the other day and saw a copper |> plate that was used for embossing a decorative design on |> book covers. The informational blurb next to the plate said |> they use a photoetch process to go from the art work to the plate. |> The thing that seemed strange was that the plate had no under-cut. |> That is it looked like this, |> |> TOP |> Resist |> ____ |> | | |> / \ |> / \ |> ___________________ |> |> I assume the process used to make the plate is something like, |> 1. Create art work on paper, 2. Transfer artwork to the copper |> using photoresist, 3. Develope resist, 4. Etch. |> |> The question I have is, what conditions and setup is needed so |> that the etch does not eat in under the resist? That is, |> can the draft of the etch be controlled? |> I was given a long (and tedious!) explanation by a friend who used to be a lecturer in printing technology - he was talking about etching plates for printing. Apparently, they covered the plate in photo-sensitive resist, exposed it, did whatever was necessary to develop it and then etched it for a while. When the plate had been etched for about 10 thou or so and there was a risk of undercutting they cleaned and dried the plate, warmed it, held it at a steep angle and scattered "dragon's blood" (honest!) over it. This natural resin stuck to the sides of the etching but not to the bottom. The sequence of etching and coating continued until the desired depth was reached. -- David Jenkins * All incorrect spelling and grammar is intentional. Corrections are * * superfluous and will be ignored. So there. * From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Thu Nov 18 18:27:55 EST 1993 Article: 2759 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe differences Message-ID: Date: 17 Nov 93 14:22:21 GMT References: Organization: AT&T Lines: 70 >From article , by gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot): > Well, somebody had to do it, so I suppose it might as well be me. I > cheated and looked "engine" up. Ya got yer choice of > 1) a machine for converting thermal energy into force and motion > 2) a locomotive > 3) a fire engine > 4) any mechanical contrivance > 5) an instrument of war > 6) an instrument of torture > Take yer pick. > .... > I think I'll look this up in Kent's or Machinery's Handbook. > >> >....s. ENGINE LATHES are those that the motor drives a transmission > > Maybe not. According to the above, lathes are engines because they're a > mechanical contrivance or they're engine lathes because they're driven by > an engine. In modern times this seems like a specious distinction. I used > to think it meant they had no lead screw, but since then I've seen "engine > lathes" advertised that had lead screws and all the feeds you could want. > I've also seen lathes advertised as "geared head", so the geared > distinction appears to be separable from "engineness". Maybe it used to > mean something, but no longer does? Or maybe they're no longer used as > instruments of war or torture. Come to think of it, I've never heard the > expression "stretched on a lathe". I also did some research in my "library" last night. I checked several textbooks on machining techniques, and a variety of other books. Most didn't define "engine lathe", but seemed to use it as the default, in that if it wasn't something else, like a turret lathe, then it was an engine lathe. One older book, called "Rogers Machinist's Guide" states that there are several common definitions, and mentions 3. First, a lathe with power, as opposed to a foot lathe. Second, a lathe with power feed on the x-axis, and third, a lathe with power feed on both axes. Machinery's Handbook did not have a definition. I also looked more carefully at the 1958 South Bend catalog. For all of their larger lathes (16", 14.5", 13", 10") they divide each size into two types, "toolroom" and "engine", thus apparently following the definition that it is an engine lathe if it is not some other type. As I discussed previously, a South Bend toolroom lathe (in any of the sizes) was a more fully equipped lathe. Although I didn't say so last time, some of the included options are focused at improved accuracy, like a precision lead screw. All of these South Bend lathes in 1958 were belt driven, so the idea that "engine" means "geared head" seems off the mark. Also, in the 10" size, South Bend offered both floor models and bench models in both the engine and toolroom categories, so that is apparently not related to the distinction. Also, someone suggested bed length. South Bend offered the toolroom version in essentially the same range of lengths as the engine version. South Bend continued to use the toolroom versus engine distinction for their belt driven lathes in catalogs from the 1980's as well. Interestingly, for South Bend's smaller lathes, including the 9" and the 10-K (or "light 10"), the term engine lathe is not mentioned. The options are "toolroom", and Model A, B or C, where the latter are QC gearbox, manual change gears with power cross feed, and manual gears with half nuts only on the carriage. The term "engine lathe" never appears in the text for these lathes either. In summary I suspect that the original poster should assume that a lathe labeled a toolroom lathe is one which either the seller or the original manufacturer thinks is a premium lathe in some way (accuracy or equipment), and that an engine lathe is one that the seller can't justify (or hasn't thought of) calling a toolroom lathe. Overall, go by visible condition and equipment, not by the name the seller applies. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!medicine.wustl.edu!bcserv!eric Thu Nov 18 18:27:56 EST 1993 Article: 2760 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!medicine.wustl.edu!bcserv!eric From: eric@bcserv.WUSTL.EDU (Eric R. Hugo) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Date: 17 Nov 1993 12:56:49 GMT Organization: Washington University School of Medicine Lines: 16 Message-ID: <2cd72hINNgo5@medicine.wustl.edu> References: <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bcserv.wustl.edu Dear Metalworkers, I've done a fair amt of silversmithing and for this work I've found that a micro butane/micronox (nitrous oxide, I think) torch can be very useful albiet expensive to operate. For most of my hard soldering operations (with EZ flow solder (mp around 1150 )) I use a std propane torch and MAPP gas with the work supported on a magnesia block (very heat reflective). For very fine work like attaching pin findings and soldering jump rings I break out the Radio Shack microtorch. Since I went to the smaller torch I've stopped burning up clasps and thin wire work. Eric -- Eric R. Hugo, Postdoctoral Research Associate |eric@bcserv.wustl.edu Dept. of Biochemistry and Molecular Biophysics|finger above for Washington University School of Medicine |public key <-- Box 8231, St. Louis, MO 63110_________________| (314) 362-3342 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Thu Nov 18 18:27:57 EST 1993 Article: 2761 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe differences Date: 17 Nov 1993 15:53:13 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 15 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2cdhd9$104@oak.oakland.edu> References: Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article FLJ@cbnewsh.cb.att.com, fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) writes: ... >As I discussed previously, a South Bend toolroom lathe (in any of the >sizes) was a more fully equipped lathe. Although I didn't say so last >time, some of the included options are focused at improved accuracy, >like a precision lead screw... A glance at Blue Ridge's current catalog reveals that the current difference between South Bend 'engine' and 'toolroom' lathes does indeed have to do with precisions. The Toolroom models come with a collet chuck and collet rack, as well as a 'precision' faceplate. --mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!pcies4.trl.OZ.AU!drew Thu Nov 18 18:27:57 EST 1993 Article: 2762 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!pcies4.trl.OZ.AU!drew From: drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond) Subject: Re: lathe differences Message-ID: Lines: 46 Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research References: Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 07:01:29 GMT In article gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes: >From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) >Subject: Re: lathe differences >Date: 16 Nov 1993 17:27:32 GMT >In article , fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com >(f.w.kerfoot..iii) wrote: >> >> From article , by drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond): >> > In article <2bu6na$3c6@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) writes: >> >>From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) >> >>Subject: lathe differences >> >>Date: 11 Nov 1993 20:18:50 GMT > >[............] > >> > high. Typical examples would be a Hardinge (beautiful!- English) >............. >> axis. On my dad's Schaublin, and I believe on the corresponding >> Hardinge, there is no carriage feed............ > >I hate to throw cold water on all the misinformation being provided, but I >have a Hardinge out in my shop. The cast doors on the pedestals say >Hardinge, Chicago (Chicago, England, maybe?). I wrote to the current >factory in Connecticut (or maybe Mass.) to discover the antecedents of my >lathe (#252) and they wrote back that all records had been destroyed in a >fire in 1925 or 1926, at which point they had made 5000 lathes. This puts >mine about 1916, since they began production in 1915. Subsequently they >moved back east and continue to produce one of the most elegant, accurate >toolroom lathes in existence. Like my 1916 version, modern Hardinge >toolroom lathes have all feeds and a lead screw and are distinguished by >their dovetail ways. I look at my lathe and I can see where all the modern >features had their genesis. > >What Frank may be describing is often known as a watchmaker's lathe. These >were small lathes having no feeds or lead screws and were usually used by >watchmakers to turn the pins that fit into jewel bearings. > >Gary Hello Gary. Maybe there is a Hardinge USA, and a Hardinge, England. The lathe we have in our workshop here, and I have the sublime privilege to use from time to time, is described as "Super Precision Tool Room Lathe" model HLV-H, made by the Hardinge Machine Tools Ltd Co., Fetham, Middlesex, England. Perhaps someone can clear this up for us? Regards, Drew. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!sparrow.demon.co.uk!boris Thu Nov 18 18:27:58 EST 1993 Article: 2763 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk (boris) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!sparrow.demon.co.uk!boris Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing References: <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> Organization: Straightjacket Systems/London Reply-To: boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Simple NEWS 2.0 (ka9q DIS 1.24) Lines: 28 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 19:52:43 +0000 Message-ID: <753565963snz@sparrow.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> edgarm@marcus.its.rpi.edu writes: >Greetings, > >I am just getting into silversmithing and am trying to do it on a >tight budget. The other day I was in a Radio Shack store where I >saw a very small butane torch. It was about 4 inches tall >and took a cartridge refil. > >My question is, are these torches suitable for soldering small >items, like jewelry? > **Sounds a bit on the small side to me,i use a variety of flame sizes for all types of size work,you need some device for heat retention such as a wig or a charcoal block ,so build a little stove to maintain your heat,also dont forget that solders come in different melting temperatures,you have extra easy,easy,medium,hard,enameling ,extra easy is the lowest temp. - +==============================================+ + /o o\ } Official snooker results service + + v } boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk { + + """ } of LONDON ,ENGLAND { + +=="""=========================================+ From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!richard Thu Nov 18 18:27:59 EST 1993 Article: 2764 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.models.rc Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!richard From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Subject: Lathe, mill and drill in one Message-ID: <1993Nov17.111912.11392@pegasus.com> Organization: Pegasus, Honolulu Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 11:19:12 GMT Lines: 15 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:2764 rec.models.rc:15942 I saw an ad in an RC Modeler magazine recently for a small home-shop tool that was supposed to be a lathe, a mill and a drill press, all in one unit. I think the manufacturer was Smithy. I'm curious how well a multipurpose tool like this stacks up. Does anyone have any experience with this unit or others like it? I'm interested in getting into this sort of thing, but don't really know where to start. Thanks -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!vela.acs.oakland.edu!amaranth Thu Nov 18 18:27:59 EST 1993 Article: 2765 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!vela.acs.oakland.edu!amaranth From: amaranth@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Paul Amaranth) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Date: 18 Nov 1993 14:00:08 GMT Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, Michigan, U.S.A. Lines: 31 Message-ID: <2cfv58$c1i@oak.oakland.edu> References: <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: vela.acs.oakland.edu In article <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> edgarm@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) writes: >I am just getting into silversmithing and am trying to do it on a >tight budget. The other day I was in a Radio Shack store where I >saw a very small butane torch. It was about 4 inches tall >and took a cartridge refil. > >My question is, are these torches suitable for soldering small >items, like jewelry? If it's one of those that takes a little butane cartridge, I'd stay away from it. The shut off valves never work very well on those so you end up having all the butane leak out before you get around to using it again. They also don't put out a lot of heat. For $20-$30 you can get a nice piezo ignitor refillable butane torch that puts out enough heat for silver soldering jewelry sized items. You use can of butane designed for cigarette lighters to refill it. Burns about 40 minutes on a charge. The one I have has been extremely useful for small stuff. A lot of places carry these now, although when they first came out only places like Brookstone had them. Someday I'll get one of those oxy-acetylene micro torches; those look like the ultimate small torch. -- Paul Amaranth Manager User Services - office: (313) 370 4541 (also voicemail) (internet) amaranth@vela.acs.oakland.edu | Amaranth's Law of Economics: (bitnet) amaranth@oakland | Brit Sports cars + horses (uucp) ...!uunet!umich!vela!amaranth | = $0 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Thu Nov 18 18:28:01 EST 1993 Article: 2766 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Anvils Date: 18 Nov 1993 14:12:19 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2cfvs3INNk87@lynx.unm.edu> References: <1993Nov8.230738.13159@mmm.mmm.com> <16C87D4D6.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: algodones.unm.edu Richard> Now, you have got me curious. Exactly what constitutes an "anvil?" Richard> My local scrap yard sold me a 1 foot piece of 12x12" I beam with Richard> 1" web thickness for about $20 (20 cents per pound). I stand it Richard> on its side, edge or end depending on what I am doing. Is this Richard> an "anvil?" It suits my purposes, and is a lot cheaper than the Richard> prices quoted here for "real" anvils. I do not recall the "technical" definition of an anvil. I think it is something like "a serface which is struck by a..." I would/do call the I-beem an anvil. The only problem I have found when using an I-beem is that it tends to flex when you tend to get serious. As a note, when I was hunting around for anvils about 5 to 10 years ago, the price range was generally $0.50-$0.75# for beat-to-hell, about $1.00-$1.50# for old-and-true, and $2.00+# for brand-new-brand-name. I don't think that the prices have changed all that much. I paid $500 for my 350# PW anvil which is an estimated 150 years old. Works fine, and doesnt move when I'm knocking around the big stuff... EBo -- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil!erickson Thu Nov 18 18:28:02 EST 1993 Article: 2767 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil!erickson From: erickson@cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson) Subject: Re: lathe differences Message-ID: Sender: news@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey References: Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 17:09:52 GMT Lines: 57 In article , Drew Diamond wrote: >In article gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes: >>From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) >>Subject: Re: lathe differences >>Date: 16 Nov 1993 17:27:32 GMT >>In article , fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com >>(f.w.kerfoot..iii) wrote: >>> >>> From article , by drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond): >>> > In article <2bu6na$3c6@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) writes: >>> >>From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) >>> >>Subject: lathe differences >>> >>Date: 11 Nov 1993 20:18:50 GMT >> >>[............] >> >>> > high. Typical examples would be a Hardinge (beautiful!- English) >>............. >>> axis. On my dad's Schaublin, and I believe on the corresponding >>> Hardinge, there is no carriage feed............ >> >>I hate to throw cold water on all the misinformation being provided, but I >>have a Hardinge out in my shop. The cast doors on the pedestals say >>Hardinge, Chicago (Chicago, England, maybe?). I wrote to the current >>factory in Connecticut (or maybe Mass.) to discover the antecedents of my >>lathe (#252) and they wrote back that all records had been destroyed in a >>fire in 1925 or 1926, at which point they had made 5000 lathes. This puts >>mine about 1916, since they began production in 1915. Subsequently they >>moved back east and continue to produce one of the most elegant, accurate >>toolroom lathes in existence. Like my 1916 version, modern Hardinge >>toolroom lathes have all feeds and a lead screw and are distinguished by >>their dovetail ways. I look at my lathe and I can see where all the modern >>features had their genesis. >> >>What Frank may be describing is often known as a watchmaker's lathe. These >>were small lathes having no feeds or lead screws and were usually used by >>watchmakers to turn the pins that fit into jewel bearings. >> >>Gary > >Hello Gary. Maybe there is a Hardinge USA, and a Hardinge, England. The >lathe we have in our workshop here, and I have the sublime privilege to >use from time to time, is described as "Super Precision Tool Room Lathe" >model HLV-H, made by the Hardinge Machine Tools Ltd Co., Fetham, >Middlesex, England. Perhaps someone can clear this up for us? > >Regards, Drew. I hope there is a Hardinge expert out there who can give us a description of the various lathes and a capsule history of the company. Just to add one more piece of information: I have a copy of Toolmaking, an ATS book published in 1940, which shows a picture of a Hardinge lathe which does not have a lead screw, and in fact looks like a very large watchmakers lathe, with perhaps 18" btw. centers. -Dave Erickson From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!xenon.arc.nasa.gov!laforce Thu Nov 18 18:28:03 EST 1993 Article: 2768 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!xenon.arc.nasa.gov!laforce From: laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov (Soren LaForce) Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Message-ID: <18NOV199309392505@xenon.arc.nasa.gov> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: usenet@news.arc.nasa.gov Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035 References: <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> <2cfv58$c1i@oak.oakland.edu> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 16:39:00 GMT Lines: 28 In article <2cfv58$c1i@oak.oakland.edu>, amaranth@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Paul Amaranth) writes... >In article <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> edgarm@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) writes: >>I am just getting into silversmithing and am trying to do it on a >>tight budget. The other day I was in a Radio Shack store where I >>saw a very small butane torch. It was about 4 inches tall >>and took a cartridge refil. I'd avoid it. I had one many years ago. Not enough heat. Several years ago I bought a MAPP gas torch from sears for about $20. It came with a large and small "tip." It gets hot enough to braze a wing nut onto a 3/8" bolt. Just barely hot enough. Takes a looong time. On the other hand, it is noticably better than propane/butane. With the small tip, I think it would do well for your application. It's also a **far** cry from oxy-accetalene. One thing to be careful of is thinking that for soldering small things you don't need a lot of heat. You don't want to melt your work, but you also want to heat the work area quickly. With a low heat torch, you will heat a lot more of your piece. This is a problem if there is another solder joint nearby, as it will melt. The best setup is probably an aircraft welding rig (oxy-accetalene). --Soren laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Thu Nov 18 18:28:03 EST 1993 Article: 2769 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe differences Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 18 Nov 1993 18:10:13 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 17 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article , drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond) wrote: stuff..... > Hello Gary. Maybe there is a Hardinge USA, and a Hardinge, England. [.....] > model HLV-H, made by the Hardinge Machine Tools Ltd Co., Fetham, > Middlesex, England. Perhaps someone can clear this up for us? > I'm pretty sure that Hardinge started off in Chicago, lost their factory in the 1926 Chicago fire, and moved to New York. That doesn't rule out their starting a subsidiary in England, or, perish the thought, starting a US subsidiary in 1915 in Chicago. Will mysteries never cease? BTW, I've enjoyed Frank's information on engine vs. toolroom lathes. And he's right; libraries, or more precisely books, are addictive. Sure hope we never get a BEA to parallel the DEA. Shades of Fahrenheit 451! From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eff!news.kei.com!ub!newserve!news.!NewsWatcher!user Fri Nov 19 09:55:50 EST 1993 Article: 2770 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eff!news.kei.com!ub!newserve!news.!NewsWatcher!user From: haynie@uno.cc.geneseo.edu (john haynie) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: lathe, mill, shaper - what value at auction? Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 18 Nov 1993 19:11:46 GMT Organization: biology/SUNY Geneseo Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 137.238.27.5 A school surplus auction is coming up nearby this weekend. Selling are B&S surface grinder, tool and cutter grinder, Ammco metal shaper, Clausing hor. milling machine, 9" Southbend metal lathe (and a lot more). That's all the info in the advert and no opportunity to inspect before the day of the auction. First question to the group - What are the approximate values of these items, particularly the lathe and the milling machine. I understand how much this depends on condition and tooling but ballpark figures for the basic tool in good condition would be useful. Second question - What basic things should be (can be) inspected to determine the overall quality of the machine? What sorts of non-obvious things mean trouble from the start? I passed up a small bench lathe two years ago because the ways and the cross slide had light surface rust. I think that I probably missed a good deal ($225 including a steel bench and a modest number of tools, holders, change gears) for fear that cleaning up the rust was more than just a cosmetic job. Woodworking tools that I have purchased at other school auctions have usually turned out to be moderately priced and in very good condition so I am optimistic. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!rag.austin.nam.slb.com!detroit.austin.wireline.slb.com!user Fri Nov 19 09:55:51 EST 1993 Article: 2771 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!rag.austin.nam.slb.com!detroit.austin.wireline.slb.com!user From: mayhugh.austin.wireline.slb.com (Terry Mayhugh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Chip Color Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 18 Nov 1993 20:10:56 GMT Organization: Schlumberger, Austin TX Lines: 8 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: detroit.austin.nam.slb.com Could someone tell me if a dark blue chip color is normal when turning cold roll steel using cemented carbide cutters? Running 1000 rpm with 1"dia stock gives me a nice surface finish with a light facing cut but I'm concerned with the resulting chip color. Reducing the speed to say 600 rpm greatly improves the chip color but the surface finish degrades. I'm used to HSS cutters on a Unimat and have just purchased a larger lathe and have been experimenting with carbide cutters. I'm not sure what I should be expecting. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Fri Nov 19 09:55:52 EST 1993 Article: 2772 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: lathe differences Organization: AT&T Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 20:46:46 GMT Message-ID: References: Lines: 21 >From article , by erickson@cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson): > I hope there is a Hardinge expert out there who can give us a description > of the various lathes and a capsule history of the company. Just to add > one more piece of information: I have a copy of Toolmaking, an ATS book > published in 1940, which shows a picture of a Hardinge lathe which does > not have a lead screw, and in fact looks like a very large watchmakers > lathe, with perhaps 18" btw. centers. As I described in previous posts, this sound just like the Shaublin 102 my Dad has, and I know he agonized between it and a similar but more expensive Hardinge when he bought it. I'm still not sure what to call this type of lathe. It is clearly (in my mind) too big to be called a watchmaker's lathe. My Dad always called it a tool maker's lathe, but that could be his choice. I looked in some Shaublin documentation I have, but it is all maintenance information rather than sales information, so it just refers to it as a lathe. Neither Hardinge nor Shaublin chose to put product data in the microfilm catalogs here at work. Did the book you have give the Hardinge in the picture a name? Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!olivea!decwrl!decwrl!rtech!amdahl!JUTS!rmm20 Fri Nov 19 09:55:53 EST 1993 Article: 2773 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!olivea!decwrl!decwrl!rtech!amdahl!JUTS!rmm20 From: rmm20@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Robert Mitchell) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Chip Color Message-ID: <29HE02pw57UM01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 18 Nov 93 22:48:16 GMT References: Reply-To: rmm20@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Robert Mitchell) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 40 In article mayhugh.austin.wireline.slb.com (Terry Mayhugh) writes: >Could someone tell me if a dark blue chip color is normal when turning cold >roll steel using cemented carbide cutters? Running 1000 rpm with 1"dia >stock gives me a nice surface finish with a light facing cut but I'm >concerned with the resulting chip color. Reducing the speed to say 600 rpm >greatly improves the chip color but the surface finish degrades. I'm used >to HSS cutters on a Unimat and have just purchased a larger lathe and have >been experimenting with carbide cutters. I'm not sure what I should be >expecting. I tried to EMail this but it bounced: Carbide cutters are great for production work. They like heavy cuts and high speed... Blue chips in tough steel are expected. If you take light cuts, at slow speeds, you will find the cutter chipping badly. The material tends to weld itself to the cutter... For home use, I think you would be better off sticking to HSS and work on your tool sharpening technique... makes a big difference on surface finish, and not practical if you are using carbide. I have a Myford Super 7 at home, and a Foredom grinder is its best friend... - Robert Mitchell -- UUCP: robert@mithril.cupertino.ca.us DDD: 408-746-8491 Fax: 408-725-8638 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 205, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 -- UUCP: robert@mithril.cupertino.ca.us DDD: 408-746-8491 Fax: 408-725-8638 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 205, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!jaz0 Fri Nov 19 09:55:53 EST 1993 Article: 2774 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!jaz0 From: jaz0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH A. ZELINSKI) Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Message-ID: <1993Nov18.162924.67132@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 16:29:24 GMT Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 34 In article <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu>, edgarm@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) w rites: >Greetings, > >I am just getting into silversmithing and am trying to do it on a >tight budget. The other day I was in a Radio Shack store where I >saw a very small butane torch. It was about 4 inches tall >and took a cartridge refil. > >My question is, are these torches suitable for soldering small >items, like jewelry? > >Thanks for your advice, >Marc Edgar >edgarm@rpi.edu > Marc, If you are serious about silversmithing, try to find other places to skimp on expenses. The hand tools you will need are not particularly expensive. But *do* buy a good torch. My all time favorite is "The Little Torch" made by Tescom Corp,2600 Niagara Lane, Minneapolis,MN. This is an Oxy-Acetylene torch which can be operated from a standard set of regulators used for other torch kits,or you can invest in the entire miniature tank and regulator setup from Tescom. The whole setup is probably around $350.00 The torch alone can be had for about $100 from any good welding supplier, and many suppliers of jewelry equipment. The torch kit included 5 tiny tips with orifices from .003" to .025", and is more than satisfactory for all types of silver or gold work, as the flame temp is in the same range as larger Oxy-Acet torches, that is 3500 to 6300 deg F. but the flame is tiny enough to do the most delicate work. Cheers! Joe Zelinski jaz0@lehigh.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!crux.rp.CSIRO.AU!mgoris Fri Nov 19 09:55:54 EST 1993 Article: 2775 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!crux.rp.CSIRO.AU!mgoris From: mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU (Mal Goris) Subject: Re: Anvils Message-ID: <1993Nov19.034733.25615@rp.CSIRO.AU> Keywords: anvils damascus steel Lines: 9 Sender: usenet@rp.CSIRO.AU (Network news) Nntp-Posting-Host: miraculix Organization: CSIRO Division of Radiophysics/Australia Telescope National Facility Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 03:47:33 GMT In article , writes: > The book "The Complete Bladesmith" by Jim Hrisoulas has a fairly > good section on making an anvil out of a railroad track including heat > treating it. I would reccomend the book for anyone who wants to make knives > or Damascus steel. BTW, what is Damascus steel, and how is it made? I've heard that in knife making it is inferior to other materials in terms of holding its edge, etc, but that it looks good aesthetically. Is this true? -- Mal Goris mgoris@rp.csiro.au From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news Fri Nov 19 21:19:54 EST 1993 Article: 2776 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Lathe, mill and drill in one Date: 19 Nov 1993 13:10:55 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 25 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2cigkv$m12@oak.oakland.edu> References: <1993Nov17.111912.11392@pegasus.com> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article 11392@pegasus.com, richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes: >I saw an ad in an RC Modeler magazine recently for a small home-shop >tool that was supposed to be a lathe, a mill and a drill press, all in >one unit. I think the manufacturer was Smithy. I'm curious how well >a multipurpose tool like this stacks up. > >Does anyone have any experience with this unit or others like it? Yes. The back room at Production Tool Co. is full of broken ones. There are a number of these that look alike but are made at a couple of different Chinese facotories. One company, (Shopsmith, I think) claims to be the originator, and indeed they have the most sophisticated model. I don't know how quality compares on different versions, but if I bought one I'd get it from a reliable company that offered a solid warranty and guaranteed parts availability. Then I'd think twice, save some more money and buy a Grizzly 9" lathe... ;-) (Seriously: The Grizzly does seem to have the best reputation of the Chinese clone lathes. A friend owns one and is pleased with it) --mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!howardr Fri Nov 19 21:19:54 EST 1993 Article: 2777 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!howardr From: howardr@col.hp.com (Howard Rebel) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Date: 19 Nov 1993 14:20:59 GMT Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division Lines: 40 Message-ID: <2cikoc$41q@hp-col.col.hp.com> References: <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> <2cfv58$c1i@oak.oakland.edu> <18NOV199309392505@xenon.arc.nasa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsdrq7.col.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0.7] I suggest that you use oxy-propane. The propane is much cleaner burning then accetalene. Another advantage is that you do not need the as much eye protection when viewing the propane flame. Most any welding supply can adapt a regulator to a 20 lb propane tank. Howard Soren LaForce (laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov) wrote: : In article <2cfv58$c1i@oak.oakland.edu>, amaranth@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Paul Amaranth) writes... : >In article <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> edgarm@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) writes: : >>I am just getting into silversmithing and am trying to do it on a : >>tight budget. The other day I was in a Radio Shack store where I : >>saw a very small butane torch. It was about 4 inches tall : >>and took a cartridge refil. : I'd avoid it. I had one many years ago. Not enough heat. : Several years ago I bought a MAPP gas torch from sears for about $20. : It came with a large and small "tip." It gets hot enough to braze : a wing nut onto a 3/8" bolt. Just barely hot enough. Takes a looong : time. : On the other hand, it is noticably better than propane/butane. With : the small tip, I think it would do well for your application. : It's also a **far** cry from oxy-accetalene. : One thing to be careful of is thinking that for soldering small things : you don't need a lot of heat. You don't want to melt your work, but : you also want to heat the work area quickly. With a low heat torch, : you will heat a lot more of your piece. This is a problem if there : is another solder joint nearby, as it will melt. The best setup : is probably an aircraft welding rig (oxy-accetalene). : --Soren laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov -- Howard Rebel howardr@col.hp.com FAX: 719-590-5701 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm Fri Nov 19 21:19:55 EST 1993 Article: 2778 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm From: rogerm@fc.hp.com (Roger Mitchell) Subject: Re: Engines (was: lathe differences) Sender: news@fc.hp.com (news daemon) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 14:43:05 GMT References: <2c9nqk$atk@vanbc.wimsey.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: ux0046.fc.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.4] Lines: 7 My 16 X 72 inch South Bend lathe was originally powered by a foot treadle. It is now powered by a 5 Horsepower 3 phase motor. The lathe was built in 1880 Roger Mitchell President and Master Mechanic Fort Collins Municipal Railway From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!msuinfo!uchinews!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Fri Nov 19 21:19:56 EST 1993 Article: 2779 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!msuinfo!uchinews!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: Anvils Message-ID: <1993Nov19.085604.7408@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 14 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: <1993Nov19.034733.25615@rp.CSIRO.AU> Date: 19 Nov 93 08:56:04 CST Mal Goris (mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU) wrote: : BTW, what is Damascus steel, and how is it made?... Uh, I'm going to leave this to the resident damascus fans, but if this question doesn't qualify as a FAQ I don't know what does... ... whoever answers this, please send something to Jim for the FAQ ! Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ncrgw2.ncr.com!ncrhub2!ncrclm!shuyge Fri Nov 19 21:19:57 EST 1993 Article: 2780 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ncrgw2.ncr.com!ncrhub2!ncrclm!shuyge From: shuyge@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Stan Huyge) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.models.rc Subject: Re: Lathe, mill and drill in one Message-ID: <1029@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM> Date: 19 Nov 93 14:02:41 GMT References: <1993Nov17.111912.11392@pegasus.com> Reply-To: shuyge@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Stan Huyge) Organization: WPD Clemson Lines: 24 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:2780 rec.models.rc:15975 In article <1993Nov17.111912.11392@pegasus.com> richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes: >I saw an ad in an RC Modeler magazine recently for a small home-shop >tool that was supposed to be a lathe, a mill and a drill press, all in >one unit. I think the manufacturer was Smithy. I'm curious how well >a multipurpose tool like this stacks up. > >Does anyone have any experience with this unit or others like it? > I have a friend that used to have a combination lathe/mill. The mill was horizontal and he didn't like it at all. He says that the Horizontal mill was awkward to use (i.e. not intuitive). He ended up getting rid of the combination unit and now owns a separate mill (vertical) and lathe. I believe that both units are sherline or something spelled similarly. Hope this helps. -- ------------------------------------------------------ Opinions are mine not theirs. What did *you* think? stan.huyge@ClemsonSC.ncr.com ------------------------------------------------------ From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Fri Nov 19 21:19:57 EST 1993 Article: 2781 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!linac!att!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: Engines (was: lathe differences) Organization: AT&T Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 16:36:58 GMT Message-ID: References: Lines: 12 >From article , by rogerm@fc.hp.com (Roger Mitchell): > My 16 X 72 inch South Bend lathe was originally powered by a foot > treadle. It is now powered by a 5 Horsepower 3 phase motor. The lathe > was built in 1880 Was the treadle big enough for 5 horses? Seriously, was it possible to do any reasonable work on a 16" lathe with only foot power? Apparently so, but it sounds somewhat implausible. Perhaps with very light cuts and slow feeds. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Fri Nov 19 21:19:58 EST 1993 Article: 2782 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe differences Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 19 Nov 1993 17:20:52 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 36 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <2ce1c8$iem@tymix.Tymnet.COM> <1993Nov18.224725.23910@hemlock.cray.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article <1993Nov18.224725.23910@hemlock.cray.com>, trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) wrote: > > : Perhaps "Engine Lathe" harks back to the days when machine shops were run by > : overhead shafts and belts, and a lathe with the motor on-board was an > : exception > > John, what have you started? ... everyone's digging through their bookshelves > now. > Yeah, ain't it wonderful? Here's more. My 1935 vintage Southbend "How to run a Lathe" contains two pages on toolroom lathes with great emphasis on the idea that Southbend toolroom lathes were very high precision. Several line cuts of belt-driven Southbend toolroom lathes. No engine lathes are mentioned, but Southbend does refer to "motor-driven" lathes, and has line cuts of several lathes with the jackshaft driven by an electric motor, but still with crowned cone pulleys and flat leather belt drives for the final transmission to the spindle. Kind of conservative. Also rather kludgey. My 1960's vintage "Tool Engineer's Handbook" contains a description separating engine lathes from toolroom lathes. Engine lathes are general purpose machines, as distinguished from turret lathes and automatic screw machines. Toolroom lathes are engine lathes built to higher standards of precision for the purpose of (you guessed it) making tooling. Seems in the earlier part of the century the toolroom was used for more than storing cutters. They actually made cutters (and dies) instead of buying them. Consequently, if you wanted reasonable precision in your production machinery, you needed higher precision in the machines you used to make tooling to fit. A very pertinent subject for something calling itself "Tool Engineer's Handbook". G.- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Fri Nov 19 21:19:58 EST 1993 Article: 2783 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Engines (was: lathe differences) Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 19 Nov 1993 17:23:11 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 6 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <2c9nqk$atk@vanbc.wimsey.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article , rogerm@fc.hp.com (Roger Mitchell) wrote: > > My 16 X 72 inch South Bend lathe was originally powered by a foot > treadle. It is now powered by a 5 Horsepower 3 phase motor.!!!!!!!!!! Were there any specs on the guy who was supposed to work the treadle? From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!nwnexus!neilm Fri Nov 19 21:19:59 EST 1993 Article: 2784 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Too Cool Torches for Silversmithing Date: 19 Nov 1993 09:36:37 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 32 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <18NOV199309392505@xenon.arc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92s (Beta) Originator: neilm@chinook.halcyon.com In article <18NOV199309392505@xenon.arc.nasa.gov> laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov writes: > > One thing to be careful of is thinking that for soldering small things > you don't need a lot of heat. You don't want to melt your work, but > you also want to heat the work area quickly. With a low heat torch, > you will heat a lot more of your piece. This is a problem if there > is another solder joint nearby, as it will melt. A MAJOR pain. Another is discoloration of the metal if you have to keep it hot too long. A big pink copper-splotch on the back of an otherwise nice piece is real discouraging. Again, you need a torch that can dump heat into the joint faster than the sterling can soak it off. Going back over these threads, related e-mail, and my own experiences, I'm going to say that your torch is probably your single most important tool. You can make up for deficiencies in others, but an inadequate torch will prevent you turning out professional results (or at least make it require a lot more finish work). I'm tired of polishing out big pink copper-splotches. My checkbook and I are gonna take my own advice and go get a Little Torch today. Cheers! Neil Proprietor, Some Sort of Silversmith -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!hal214.wwc.edu!johnri Fri Nov 19 21:20:00 EST 1993 Article: 2785 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!hal214.wwc.edu!johnri From: johnri@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Anvils Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 18:18:31 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <1993Nov19.034733.25615@rp.CSIRO.AU> NNTP-Posting-Host: hal214.wwc.edu Keywords: anvils damascus steel In article <1993Nov19.034733.25615@rp.CSIRO.AU> mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU (Mal Goris) writes: >From: mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU (Mal Goris) >Subject: Re: Anvils >Keywords: anvils damascus steel >Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 03:47:33 GMT >In article , writes: >> The book "The Complete Bladesmith" by Jim Hrisoulas has a fairly >> good section on making an anvil out of a railroad track including heat >> treating it. I would reccomend the book for anyone who wants to make knives >> or Damascus steel. > >BTW, what is Damascus steel, and how is it made? I've heard that in knife >making it is inferior to other materials in terms of holding its edge, etc, >but that it looks good aesthetically. Is this true? "Damascus" steel is usually created nowadays when 2 materials with differing carbon content or differing properties such as high and low carbon or high carbon and nickel are forge welded together to form on solid billet. My experience is that in general, Damascus does not stay shaving sharp as long as straight carbon steel but when it dulls it leaves a microscopic saw edge that will cut flesh like nothing else. Any coments are welcome Rick From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!admii!ovation!lori.pica.army.mil!mike Fri Nov 19 21:20:05 EST 1993 Article: 2786 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!admii!ovation!lori.pica.army.mil!mike From: mike@lori.pica.army.mil (Mike Folenta) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Chip Color Message-ID: Date: 19 Nov 93 17:03:12 GMT References: Sender: usenet@pica.army.mil (USENET Special Account ) Reply-To: mfolenta@pica.army.mil Organization: US Army Armament, Research, & Development Center Lines: 30 Nntp-Posting-Host: lori.pica.army.mil (Terry Mayhugh) writes: |> Could someone tell me if a dark blue chip color is normal when turning cold |> roll steel using cemented carbide cutters? Running 1000 rpm with 1"dia |> stock gives me a nice surface finish with a light facing cut but I'm |> concerned with the resulting chip color. Reducing the speed to say 600 rpm |> greatly improves the chip color but the surface finish degrades. I'm used |> to HSS cutters on a Unimat and have just purchased a larger lathe and have |> been experimenting with carbide cutters. I'm not sure what I should be |> expecting. Well, don't get all bent out of shape (ha!) but ... Who cares what color the chip is!!!! The chip is the -waste- from the cut. If it turns blue (or straw or purple or etc), so what. The chip is small in mass and is getting hot from the friction of the cut, so it oxidized. No problem unless you want to save the chip as a memento and really wanted a shiny one. :-} You are getting a nice surface finish on the workpiece, so the discolored chip is no problem. Keep on cutting ... -- ***** These are my opinions. Get your own. :-) ***** Michael Folenta | U.S. Army ARDEC Future Weapons Branch | Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806-5000 email mfolenta@pica.army.mil | (201) 724-3791 [DSN 880-3791] From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Fri Nov 19 21:20:06 EST 1993 Article: 2787 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Lathe, mill and drill in one Date: 19 Nov 1993 17:57:26 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2cj1e6$fhh@oak.oakland.edu> References: <1029@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article 1029@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM, shuyge@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Stan Huyge) writes: >I have a friend that used to have a combination lathe/mill. >The mill was horizontal and he didn't like it at all. I've never seen a combination lathe and horizontal mill, other than by putting a milling adapter on a lathe crossfeed. Do you recall who made this? >... He says that the >Horizontal mill was awkward to use (i.e. not intuitive). >He ended up getting rid of the combination unit and now owns a separate >mill (vertical) and lathe. I believe that both units are sherline or >something spelled similarly. > Sherline makes a very nice 3.5" lathe (used to own one, thinking of buying another) and a nice smilarly scaled mill. The Smith asked about originaly is much larger; the concern, I think, wasn't about combination tools so much as about the inexpensive Chinese mill/drill/lathe sets from Smithy and others. --mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!hal214.wwc.edu!johnri Fri Nov 19 21:20:07 EST 1993 Article: 2788 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!hal214.wwc.edu!johnri From: johnri@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Mokume Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 18:28:03 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 13 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: hal214.wwc.edu To all who don't know what Mokume is I will tell you what I am calling mokume. I am forge welding brass and copper sheet together in my forge and them carving and filing for surface decoration. Very similar to making damascus steel but much easier to weld. My problem is this. I would like to make some twisted patterns. The problem is that when attempting to twist the welded (brazed) billet cold the welds delaminate and when attempting to twist them hot they delaminate either in the twisting process or in the subsequent flat forging process. I know this is possible as I've seen twisted patterns in brass/copper mokume. Any help here would be mighty appreciated. Rick From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm Fri Nov 19 21:20:07 EST 1993 Article: 2789 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm From: rogerm@fc.hp.com (Roger Mitchell) Subject: Re: Engines (was: lathe differences) Sender: news@fc.hp.com (news daemon) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 19:42:21 GMT References: <2c9nqk$atk@vanbc.wimsey.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: ux0046.fc.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.4] Lines: 18 gary preckshot (gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov) wrote: : In article , rogerm@fc.hp.com (Roger Mitchell) wrote: : > : > My 16 X 72 inch South Bend lathe was originally powered by a foot : > treadle. It is now powered by a 5 Horsepower 3 phase motor.!!!!!!!!!! : Were there any specs on the guy who was supposed to work the treadle? The old lathe I described took 5 men to power it and one operator to machine parts. The lathe never saw any serious metal cutting until I purchased it from a man in Loveland, Colorado for a $100. It was purchased new by Chain of Mines Mill in Central City, Colorado in 1880 and spent most of it's life carving out large graphite crucibles for smelting gold ore in. When the mine went broke in the 1930's, the father of the man I purchased it from received it as payment of wages owed to him. I have owned this lathe for about 20 years now. It is still in remarkably good condition and shows little ware. Roger Mitchell From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Fri Nov 19 21:20:08 EST 1993 Article: 2790 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Damascus steel (was Anvils) Message-ID: <1993Nov19.112458.987@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 19 Nov 93 11:24:57 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 5 If nobody draws up a proposed answer to "What is Damascus Steel?" I can dig through my archive and gather enough information for an answer. I agree it seems to be an FAQ, and will add it. Jim From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Fri Nov 19 21:20:09 EST 1993 Article: 2791 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Machining Invar Message-ID: <1993Nov19.113321.988@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 19 Nov 93 11:33:21 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 20 Anybody have tips for machining Invar? This is an alloy of Nickel and Steel, with a very low coefficient of thermal expansion. It is reputed to be difficult to machine, perhaps on a par with stainless steel. One suggestion given to me was that Carbon Tetrachloride was a good cutting fluid, but carbon tet isn't such a nice thing to breathe or heat! Mainly I'm concerned with low-speed operations such as drilling and threading (with hand taps and dies), though I might need to do a small amount of turning/facing. The item in hand is a 42-inch rod of 5/16-inch diameter, for use as a precision clock pendulum. Among other things I need to thread the end for a rating nut, and want a fairly fine thread. I'm thinking about 5/16-32 or perhaps even 5/16-40. Or, I suppose the end could be turned to a smaller diameter, and use a different diameter thread/nut. Suggestions? Jim Kirkpatrick jimkirk@uwyo.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!panix!not-for-mail Sun Nov 21 01:16:26 EST 1993 Article: 2792 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!panix!not-for-mail From: pw@panix.com (Paul Wallich) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Date: 19 Nov 1993 17:07:20 -0500 Organization: Trivializers R Us Lines: 20 Message-ID: <2cjg2o$286@panix.com> References: <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> <2cfv58$c1i@oak.oakland.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com In <2cfv58$c1i@oak.oakland.edu> amaranth@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Paul Amaranth) writes: >In article <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> edgarm@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) writes: >>I am just getting into silversmithing and am trying to do it on a >>tight budget. The other day I was in a Radio Shack store where I >>saw a very small butane torch. It was about 4 inches tall >>and took a cartridge refil. >If it's one of those that takes a little butane cartridge, I'd stay >away from it. The shut off valves never work very well on those so >you end up having all the butane leak out before you get around to using >it again. They also don't put out a lot of heat. I've found (sample of two, of course) that the valves on teeny microtorch gizmos don't seem to stand up, and that losing your fuel is among the nicer things that can happen. More worrisome is that a leak around the valve stem, coupled with a spark (or stray flame/heat), can start a small but very dangerous fire. paul From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!ctc.com!news.cs.umb.edu!hsdndev!admii!ovation!lori.pica.army.mil!mike Sun Nov 21 01:16:32 EST 1993 Article: 2793 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!ctc.com!news.cs.umb.edu!hsdndev!admii!ovation!lori.pica.army.mil!mike From: mike@lori.pica.army.mil (Mike Folenta) Subject: Re: Mokume Message-ID: Sender: usenet@pica.army.mil (USENET Special Account ) Nntp-Posting-Host: lori.pica.army.mil Reply-To: mfolenta@pica.army.mil Organization: US Army Armament, Research, & Development Center References: Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 21:57:25 GMT Lines: 40 johnri@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: |> To all who don't know what Mokume is I will tell you what I am |> calling mokume. I am forge welding brass and copper sheet together in my |> forge and them carving and filing for surface decoration. Very similar to |> making damascus steel but much easier to weld. |> My problem is this. I would like to make some twisted patterns. The |> problem is that when attempting to twist the welded (brazed) billet cold the |> welds delaminate and when attempting to twist them hot they delaminate |> either in the twisting process or in the subsequent flat forging process. I |> know this is possible as I've seen twisted patterns in brass/copper mokume. |> |> Any help here would be mighty appreciated. |> |> Rick Well, if the layers delaminate when you twist them, then you really haven't welded/brazed them together. You have just sort of mashed them together without actually joining the layers together at the molecular level. Hence the layers just sort of peel apart or split when you twist or bend them. You have to get the layers to -join- together, not just to be smashed close to one another. Most common cause that I know of is dirty layers. This includes oxide contamination between the layers as you are heating and working them to try and join them. The solution that I know of is to start with clean layers and then do all hot work in a reducing (definitely NOT an -oxidizing-) atmosphere. Or try and do all your hammer-forging in a pure nitrogen atmosphere... :-} for the humor-impaired It ain't as easy to hammer-forge/weld/braze stuff as you might think. In fact, it can be down-right tricky and a pain-in-the-#%$ -- ***** These are my opinions. Get your own. :-) ***** Michael Folenta | U.S. Army ARDEC Future Weapons Branch | Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806-5000 email mfolenta@pica.army.mil | (201) 724-3791 [DSN 880-3791] From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm Sun Nov 21 01:16:33 EST 1993 Article: 2794 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Lathe, mill and drill in one Date: 19 Nov 1993 21:22:36 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 13 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <2cigkv$m12@oak.oakland.edu> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92s (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <2cigkv$m12@oak.oakland.edu> mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu writes: > > There are a number of these that look alike but are made at a couple > of different Chinese facotories. One company, (Shopsmith, I think) claims > to be the originator, and indeed they have the most sophisticated model. My father owns a Shopsmith. Definitely a woodworking tool; I don't think it was meant for metal. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!tulane!defrat Sun Nov 21 01:16:35 EST 1993 Article: 2795 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!tulane!defrat From: defrat@burgundy.ee.tulane.edu (Mark Defrates) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Date: 20 Nov 1993 06:39:57 GMT Organization: Department of Electrical Engineering, Tulane Univ. Lines: 62 Message-ID: <2cke3t$cv5@news.cs.tulane.edu> References: <1993Nov18.162924.67132@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: burgundy.ee.tulane.edu In article <1993Nov18.162924.67132@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> jaz0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH A. ZELINSKI) writes: > In article <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu>, edgarm@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) >w >rites: >>Greetings, >> >>I am just getting into silversmithing and am trying to do it on a >>tight budget. The other day I was in a Radio Shack store where I >>saw a very small butane torch. It was about 4 inches tall >>and took a cartridge refil. >> >>My question is, are these torches suitable for soldering small >>items, like jewelry? >> >>Thanks for your advice, >>Marc Edgar >>edgarm@rpi.edu I solder about 10 hours a week and concur with other posters that the Little Torch or any other oxy-acetylene or oxy/propane setup are the most appropriate for jewelry applications using hard solder. However, The Smith acteylene air and PrestoLite torches also work well for all but the finest work. I use them when I run out of oxygen and am too busy to haul my tank down to be refilled. I also concur with other posters that saving money on soldering equipment is the worst place to save. PrestoLites are available at most welding supply stores and should cost, with tank,no more than $150. I use oxy propane with my Little Torch for silver because it is cheaper and cooler, and may inhibit firescale. Hope this helps. air or PrestoLite torches work well for all but the smallest work. D ir C C C air or Presto-Lite torches also work well for all but the finest work C air A D D I solder about 10 hours a week, using primarily a Little Torch and concur with other > Marc, If you are serious about silversmithing, try to find other places > to skimp on expenses. The hand tools you will need are not particularly > expensive. But *do* buy a good torch. My all time favorite is "The Little > Torch" made by Tescom Corp,2600 Niagara Lane, Minneapolis,MN. > This is an Oxy-Acetylene torch which can be operated from a standard set > of regulators used for other torch kits,or you can invest in the entire > miniature tank and regulator setup from Tescom. The whole setup is probably > around $350.00 The torch alone can be had for about $100 from any good > welding supplier, and many suppliers of jewelry equipment. > The torch kit included 5 tiny tips with orifices from .003" to .025", and > is more than satisfactory for all types of silver or gold work, as the flame > temp is in the same range as larger Oxy-Acet torches, that is 3500 to 6300 deg > F. but the flame is tiny enough to do the most delicate work. > Cheers! > Joe Zelinski > jaz0@lehigh.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!decwrl!decwrl!waikato!comp.vuw.ac.nz!gcs.co.nz!amigans!linc!poncho Sun Nov 21 01:16:36 EST 1993 Article: 2796 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!decwrl!decwrl!waikato!comp.vuw.ac.nz!gcs.co.nz!amigans!linc!poncho From: poncho@linc.amigans.gen.nz (Peter Northway) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Zinc Plating Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 06:11:51 +1300 References: <2cdulo$lbo@cs.ubc.ca> Organization: Totally disorganised. Lines: 19 rodb@cs.ubc.ca (Rod Barman) writes: > > Hi, > > I'm interested in zinc plating a number of small automotive parts at > > I've heard that this topic might have been covered here and I was > wondering if some kind person could please send me a copy of the > discussion. > > Many thanks, Me too please. As a relative new boy to the group I must have missed this too. Thanks. Peter Northway | Disclaimer : This is just my opinion. Well more Wanganui New Zealand | like a tiny ripple in the fabric of the universe. poncho@linc.amigans.gen.nz | Well would you believe just another beer break. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!sparrow.demon.co.uk!boris Sun Nov 21 21:25:43 EST 1993 Article: 2797 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk (boris) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!sparrow.demon.co.uk!boris Subject: Annealing silver Organization: Straightjacket Systems/London Reply-To: boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Simple NEWS 2.0 (ka9q DIS 1.24) Lines: 26 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 09:08:31 +0000 Message-ID: <753872911snz@sparrow.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk Hi all **Could i ask you guys for your opinions on the optimum method for annealing silver. At the moment i heat the metal to a dull red ,let it cool off a bit then quench in water. Now i seem to get varying softness of metal ,maybe due to the length of time i heat the metal .Maybe its better not to quench and let it cool slowly , so how long do you heat for, and do i quench ??? And how many times can i anneal before drastically altering the metal structure ? -- +==============================================+ + /o o\ } + + v } boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk { + + """ } of LONDON ,ENGLAND { + +=="""=========================================+ From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm Sun Nov 21 21:25:43 EST 1993 Article: 2798 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Annealing silver Date: 21 Nov 1993 08:26:46 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 27 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <753872911snz@sparrow.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92s (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <753872911snz@sparrow.demon.co.uk> boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk writes: > > **Could i ask you guys for your opinions on the optimum method for annealing > silver. At the moment i heat the metal to a dull red ,let it cool off a bit > then quench in water. Same as I do. I don't let it cool off much at all, just until the color starts to fade (in practice, long enough to move it from the block to the bucket). > Now i seem to get varying softness of metal ,maybe > due to the length of time i heat the metal .Maybe its better not to quench > and let it cool slowly That anneals ferrous metals, so it's probably NOT what you want to do. > And how many times can i anneal before drastically altering the metal > structure ? Considering the intricacy of older raised/sunk pieces, I would guess A LOT of times. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mozz.unh.edu!christa.unh.edu!amp Sun Nov 21 21:25:44 EST 1993 Article: 2799 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mozz.unh.edu!christa.unh.edu!amp From: amp@christa.unh.edu (Amanda M Powell) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: mini-torches Date: 21 Nov 1993 18:34:43 GMT Organization: University of New Hampshire - Durham, NH Lines: 2 Message-ID: <2cocc3$a7k@mozz.unh.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: christa.unh.edu just wanted to find out what kind of experiences people have had with mini-torches that run on butane... From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mozz.unh.edu!christa.unh.edu!amp Sun Nov 21 21:25:45 EST 1993 Article: 2800 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mozz.unh.edu!christa.unh.edu!amp From: amp@christa.unh.edu (Amanda M Powell) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: my previous post Date: 21 Nov 1993 18:40:29 GMT Organization: University of New Hampshire - Durham, NH Lines: 3 Message-ID: <2cocmt$a94@mozz.unh.edu> References: <2cocc3$a7k@mozz.unh.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: christa.unh.edu ignore it From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!mtilse Sun Nov 21 21:25:45 EST 1993 Article: 2801 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!mtilse From: mtilse@netcom.com (Michael T) Subject: etching Message-ID: Summary: The real way to get non undercut etching Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 20:43:18 GMT Lines: 38 I was reading your post on Etching without undercuts. I used to be a Photo-Engraver and have some data on this. One of the posters described "Dragons Blood" and to the degree that he described it he is correct. Once the intitial etch was taken, the plate was dried. Then the finely powdered resin was sprinkled on. Then the engraver would take a very fine long bristle brush (like camels hair) and brush lightly in one direction to sweep the resin against the side of the etch "cut". This action cleaned the bottom of the etched areas and the top of the resist. The plate was then put in an oven and the resin was fused to the sides of the cut where it had been built up. This was repeated for the other 3 directions of the plate. This whole procedure was called "4 way powder etching". Then the next etch was done and the whole process repeated untill the correct depth was attained. What replaced it was called "Powderless Etching". This used a "spray" or "splash" etching machine. The plate was held face down and rotated above a bath of nitric acid and water. In the bath were paddles that threw the acid mixture up at the plate as it rotated. (This was an enclosed machine) Added to the acid bath was a certian ammount of oil. Various mfgs had their special product, but I am not so certian that almost any oil could have done it. What the oil did was adhere to the sides of the etching cut, more than it adhered to the resist or the bottom of the etch. It protected the sides of the etching cut from the acid action more than it did the bottom. So the sides of the cut didn't get etched while the bottom did. You could control the slope of the sides of the etch by how much of the oil you added to the acid bath. If it undercut, you added more oil. Too much oil and the slope of the cut got very wide and was unusable for printing. More than you wanted to know, huh? Michael -- mtilse@netcom.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!rpi!battlec Sun Nov 21 21:25:46 EST 1993 Article: 2802 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!rpi!battlec From: battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.music.makers,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic,rec.woodworking,rec.music.makers.marketplace,rec.music.makers.synth,rec.music.makers.guitar,rec.music.makers.bass,rec.music.makers.percussion, Subject: NEW MAILGROUP for INSTRUMENT BUILDERS! Date: 22 Nov 1993 00:08:01 GMT Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY, USA Lines: 31 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2covt1$46f@usenet.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cobb.cs.rpi.edu Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:2802 rec.music.makers:27892 rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic:1086 rec.woodworking:27242 rec.music.makers.marketplace:1701 rec.music.makers.synth:13425 rec.music.makers.guitar:10706 rec.music.makers.bass:6172 rec.music.makers.percussion:2476 ========================= Instrument Builders ============================== I am starting a mail group for those interested in designing and building musical instruments. The list will be distributed in journal format whenever it gets big enough. It will be a non-moderated group unless a post is too far off topic or *far* beyond the realms of good taste. Topics will include design ideas, building techniques, reviews of literature, where to get stuff, materials, experimental instruments, gadgets, tools, marketing, seminars, and anything else of interest to builders & designers. I suspect that the focus will be on stringed instruments since they are probably the easiest to build and most often built. However, any instrument class is open for discussion: wind, percussion, keyboard, acoustic, electric, electronic. I'm using a home brew mailing list manager program to compile the list and take care of subscribers. I'm running the whole thing from my own account and if all goes well I wont have to deal with any requests manually. To join the list send mail to battlec@cs.rpi.edu with the subject header "SUBSCRIBE" and nothing in the body. Please dont send a subject like "Hey, sign me up!" I'd like the software to be able handle this as much as possible. To unsubscribe use "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the subject header and nothing in the body. To post use "POST " in the subject field where is whatever subject you want to add to the message. Dont forget the POST part or it may be delayed. This is a new group so dont be a lurker, lets get it off the ground with lots of discussion. What have you built? What have you designed? Why do you build? Are you a pro? Do you have any horror stories? Any advice for new builders? Do you have experience working with odd materials like graphite? Your post just might make it into a FAQ! ============================================================================= From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!vela.acs.oakland.edu!amaranth Mon Nov 22 22:34:16 EST 1993 Article: 2803 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!vela.acs.oakland.edu!amaranth From: amaranth@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Paul Amaranth) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Mig welder experience Date: 22 Nov 1993 14:33:59 GMT Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, Michigan, U.S.A. Lines: 44 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2cqikn$fbf@oak.oakland.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: vela.acs.oakland.edu There was a discussion on Mig welding on a car mailing list I'm on. I sent this in and thought it might be of some interest here as well. ------------- After a lot of thought, and some trepidation, I bought a 175 amp MIG from Harbor Freight the other year (that's one way to get the duty cycle up on the low range :-). Overall, I would not do it over. The first thing that came up was the wire feed drive wheel was not concentric. This caused the feed rate to vary. This was not too serious at high rates, but was disastorous when trying to weld thin stuff. I finally cut the wheel down on my lathe and improved things to where they were tolerable. Still, the entire wire feed mechanism was pretty shoddy (another example: the motor was pretty loose, when I tighted it up, it started to bind with the gear train and wouldn't run at all). The torch is also not terribly good and the tips have to be ordered from HF. There are apparently a number of different tips which they get mixed up. I was not very happy; I should have sent it back on the next truck. The other interesting point was the motor drive was run from the output of the welding transformer, which means that the speed varied with the heat setting. Pretty tacky. Instead, I did it the hard way. I built a new wire feed mechanism using a feedback pwm controller and added a Tweeco No. 1 torch. Now it runs 0-600 inches/minute with a calibrated dial and I can get tips at the corner welding store. In fact, I finally got this thing together over the weekend. Previously, the lowest heat setting was useless; now I can lay a nice bead on 20ga sheet. Was it worth it? No, I should have spent the money on a Lincoln or Miller unit in the first place (I've probably spent the equivalent, if not in money, then in time). I could have spent all that time fixing my cars, rather than fixing the welder. On the bright side, I know more about MIG welders than I ever cared to :-) If anyone is masochisticly intersted in doing something similar, I'd be happy to share my design notes. -- Paul Amaranth Manager User Services - office: (313) 370 4541 (also voicemail) (internet) amaranth@vela.acs.oakland.edu | Amaranth's Law of Economics: (bitnet) amaranth@oakland | Brit Sports cars + horses (uucp) ...!uunet!umich!vela!amaranth | = $0 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!rochester!cornell!brown Mon Nov 22 22:34:17 EST 1993 Article: 2804 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!rochester!cornell!brown From: brown@cs.cornell.edu (Geoffrey Brown) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: lathe history Message-ID: <1993Nov22.145144.1633@cs.cornell.edu> Date: 22 Nov 93 14:51:44 GMT Organization: Electrical Engineering, Cornell University, Ithaca NY Lines: 3 I enjoyed all the discussion about types of lathes and Hardinge. Who has something to add about Rivett ? Geoffrey Brown From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Mon Nov 22 22:34:18 EST 1993 Article: 2805 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Lathe, mill and drill in one Date: 22 Nov 1993 14:55:51 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 18 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2cqjtn$g41@oak.oakland.edu> References: Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article znr753724442k@halcyon, neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) writes: > >In article <2cigkv$m12@oak.oakland.edu> mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu writes: > >> >> There are a number of these that look alike but are made at a couple >> of different Chinese facotories. One company, (Shopsmith, I think) claims >> to be the originator, and indeed they have the most sophisticated model. > > My father owns a Shopsmith. Definitely a woodworking tool; I >don't think it was meant for metal. >-- Ah, I mistyped. I think it's 'Shoptask', or something like that...not 'Shopsmith', which, as you say, is a combination woodworking tool. --mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj Mon Nov 22 22:34:19 EST 1993 Article: 2806 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj From: rcj@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (R.C. Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Purchasing a MIG setup. Keywords: MIG Message-ID: <14753@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> Date: 22 Nov 93 16:31:57 GMT References: <1993Nov17.013346.16184@scic.intel.com> Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research Co., La Habra, CA Lines: 15 munchie line Your quote is just about what I paid for my SP-100 rig about 2.5 years ago. I love my Lincoln but have no experience with Hobart or Miller. You will want a 4.5 inch right angle grinder with discs and a steel brush. I can't get by without a small Oxyacetelene torch for cutting, brazing and shaping. I also have an electric (Makita) die grinder which is great for finishing and polishing (sculpture). I don't think you will want to be without some kind of table (mine is a Black and Decker work bench with a steel top. A vise or holding device of some kind. My two cents. -- |___________________________________________________________________| >>| Dik Jones, Earth Model Interpretation Internet: rcj@Chevron.com | | Chevron Petroleum Technology Company. Tel: (310) 694-7056 | | La Habra, California 90633-0446 Fax: (310) 694-7063 | From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj Mon Nov 22 22:34:20 EST 1993 Article: 2807 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj From: rcj@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (R.C. Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Message-ID: <14754@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> Date: 22 Nov 93 16:41:27 GMT References: <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research Co., La Habra, CA Lines: 12 It dosen't work well for anything greater than jump rings. It's not expensive though; $2.00 of butane lasts ~ 20. hours. I don't recommend the butane/oxygen rig at ~ $40. as the oxygen lasts about 7 minutes and tends to leak empty over a short time. ie. can be expensive. If you can get a set of secondhand bottles, the little torch from Smith is wizard good. -- |___________________________________________________________________| >>| Dik Jones, Earth Model Interpretation Internet: rcj@Chevron.com | | Chevron Petroleum Technology Company. Tel: (310) 694-7056 | | La Habra, California 90633-0446 Fax: (310) 694-7063 | From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!rpi!cii3130-05.its.rpi.edu!edgarm Mon Nov 22 22:34:20 EST 1993 Article: 2808 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!rpi!cii3130-05.its.rpi.edu!edgarm From: edgarm@cii3130-05.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Making a punch and die. Date: 22 Nov 1993 18:58:12 GMT Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY. Lines: 25 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2cr244$520@usenet.rpi.edu> References: Reply-To: edgarm@rpi.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: cii3130-05.its.rpi.edu Greetings, I would like to make 100+ copies of a piece of jewlery out of 20 to 26 guage, sterling silver flat stock. The piece has a complex outline and several regions that need to be removed. A machine shop friend said that a punch and die made would cost a few THOUSAND dollars. *YIKES!* Is it possible to make a punch and die from a photoetching or similar process? Is there a way one can make a punch and die without a milling or EDM machine at a reasonable price? I saw something in a Rio Grande catalog that was like a jewels saw mounted in a frame. For a couple hundred bucks they would send you the frame, some tool steel plate and a GROSS of blades < your gonna need 'em :). This is kind of thing I am looking for but seems a bit crude. Any suggestions? Thanks. Marc Edgar edgarm@rpi.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!spsgate!mogate!newsgate!nuntius Mon Nov 22 22:34:21 EST 1993 Article: 2809 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!spsgate!mogate!newsgate!nuntius From: Jim Jaskie Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Message-ID: <1993Nov22.191153.22163@newsgate.sps.mot.com> Sender: news@newsgate.sps.mot.com Nntp-Posting-Host: 221.5.10.84 Organization: Motorola Phoenix Corp. Research Laboratory X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 References: <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> <2cikoc$41q@hp-col.col.hp.com> <2cjg2o$286@panix.com> <14754@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 19:11:53 GMT Lines: 37 Since I haven't seen anyone comment on a type of torch that I think is the absolute best, I'll throw my three cents in (inflation). We have a small torch that uses Hydrogen and Oxygen for the fuel. These gases are supplied by a small box with a water tank and some electrodes that electrolyze the water. The flame, while small, puts out an astonishing amount of heat. And it is very, very, clean. It is clear that in a normal Carbon based (Butane, Propane, Acetylene, ...) gas there is some contamination, however slight, that hinders the wetting of silver solder and other brazes. With the Hydrogen/Oxygen torch, the wetting is much nicer, smoother, and easier. We have brazed many things with the torch that were almost impossible with a MAPP gas/Oxygen torch from the local home center. The flame is almost invisible. It has none of the bright yellow (from Sodium impurities) that makes working in regular flames almost impossible (at least without duodymium glasses) or any of the Carbon soot incandescence that also lights up most flames. There are also no pollutants formed to stink up the lab, as the combustion products are just water, not those dreadful black angels from acethylene/air, or less visible ones from other gases. The frosting, if you will, is that we don't have gas cylinders sitting around leaking away. Those things always bother me a little, because they seem to be waiting to turn a small disaster like a fire into a large catastrophe like an explosion. With this H2/O2 torch, you just flip off the power (it uses 110v out of an ordinary outlet). You also never run out, as long as there is water near by and you've paid the electric bill. At any rate, highly recommended, the right way to do a small torch. -jim Labor disgraces no man, but occasionally men disgrace labor. - Ulysses S. Grant From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!koriel!male.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!batcomfs!rja Mon Nov 22 22:34:22 EST 1993 Article: 2810 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!koriel!male.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!batcomfs!rja From: rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Anvils Date: 22 Nov 1993 19:48:42 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 102 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: Reply-To: rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: batcomfs In article 753733111@saturn.wwc.edu, johnri@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: >In article <1993Nov19.034733.25615@rp.CSIRO.AU> mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU (Mal Goris) writes: >>From: mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU (Mal Goris) >>Subject: Re: Anvils >>Keywords: anvils damascus steel >>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 03:47:33 GMT >>In article , writes: >>> The book "The Complete Bladesmith" by Jim Hrisoulas has a fairly >>> good section on making an anvil out of a railroad track including heat >>> treating it. I would reccomend the book for anyone who wants to make knives >>> or Damascus steel. >> >>BTW, what is Damascus steel, and how is it made? I've heard that in knife >>making it is inferior to other materials in terms of holding its edge, etc, >>but that it looks good aesthetically. Is this true? > > "Damascus" steel is usually created nowadays when 2 materials with >differing carbon content or differing properties such as high and low carbon >or high carbon and nickel are forge welded together to form on solid >billet. My experience is that in general, Damascus does not stay shaving >sharp as long as straight carbon steel but when it dulls it leaves a >microscopic saw edge that will cut flesh like nothing else. I've had the opportunity to discuss Damascus mfgr. with Jerry Fisk and John Smith, two makers who do excellent damascus. Let's see if I can remember the basics: "Damascus" as used by most makers today means a layered material made from a mixture of high and low carbon steels. Makers differ the mix according to their pet mixes. A billet of alternating layers is forge welded, then folded and re-folded to the desired number of layers. I've been told that more than 200-300 layers is counter-productive, as at that point you start to get too much carbon migration between the layers and you end up with a homogeneous medium carbon steel. The point of damascus, I've been told, is that the high carbon component gives up a big of carbon to the low carbon component. When the blade is hardened, the high carbon component gets fairly tough, which gives you good edge holding, and the low carbon component gets a little harder. The point of all this is that damascus is supposed to have a "micro-serrated" edge, which lasts a long time. The theory as I understand it is that the low carbon component wears faster than the high carbon component, giving you an "aggressive" edge that can't be beat. The two damascus blades I have seem to bear this out, beyond what merely varying the the grit on a sharpening stone would do. After forging a damascus blade, it is etched in one of several acid mixtures, which causes the pattern caused by the layering to emerge. Typically damascus is then blued to bring out the contrast between the layers. Damascus is often modified by forming to create specific patterns in the steel. Some makers have produced small American flags in the pattern. Note that such patterns are produced strictly for the sake of art, not for performance. Popular performance oriented patterns are ladder pattern (has ladder "rungs" the length of the blade), San Mai (various makers wrap a carbon steel layer between two damascus layers), random pattern, etc. Some makers claim the different patterns offer different structural or cutting advantages. The patterns are made by machining the billet or blade with the pattern, then re-heating and the material and hammering it flat, etc. There is also cable damascus which is forge welded cable. Most makers I've spoken with told me their cable damascus looked good, but wasn't as strong as the other damascus. Cable damascus has a unique reptile-scale type pattern. A good damascus should OUT-perform straight carbon steel in most areas, but particularly in edge holding. Some makers say their damascus is not as springlike, and so the blades will not spring back as close to true as a carbon steel blade will, under a vise-bending test. I've found that most famous makers are honest about their damascus. Tim (?) Winkler told me he makes damascus strictly because it looks nice. Wayne Valakovich (sp?) told me that his normal damascus isn't as good as his carbon steel, but that his high-density damascus is better. Fisk and Smith both say their damascus is better than their carbon steel in most regards, although it still is not as springlike as their high carbon blades. I've cut down small trees with a Fisk damascus blade, with no apparent wear on the edge. I have a Smith bowie which cuts through blue jeans with zero apparent effort. By the way, I have an 8' long War Fork, a 14th century type of pole arm, made by Jerry Fisk which I'm interested in selling. It is 8' long overall, with a (as I recall) 10" long, 1/4 twist San Mai damascus dagger type blade, with a carbon steel "fork" (the weapon looks sort of like a trident), and a carbon steel onion head pointed base piece as a counter weight. The handle shaft unscrews in the middle like a pool cue, and the shafts are 2, approx. 3' lengths of cocobolo wood. The whole thing comes in a padded rifle case, with a walnut & brass plaque explaining the history of the weapon, and with a place for the owners name to be engraved (my name is engraved on it, but you could get a trophy shop to put a smaller name plaque over the name part). I also have the original makers drawings and correspondance with Jerry Fisk about this weapon. This was the first piece in a series that he made, one per year, in custom reproductions. A subsequent piece in the series (which I do not have) was a damascus sheield with damascus blades projecting from each side. I'm asking $2,500.00 for the War Fork. Contact me via email if you're interested. --- Robert Allen, rja@sun.com DISCLAIMER: I said it, not my company. "The U.S. Constitution may be flawed, but it's a whole lot better than what we have now." From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Mon Nov 22 22:34:23 EST 1993 Article: 2811 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Mokume Date: 22 Nov 1993 20:22:54 GMT Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2cr72u$jg4@tymix.Tymnet.COM> References: Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com > I really think that I do have the layers joined together. The >reason I think this is that if I peel 2 layers apart some brass always gets >peeled off along with the copper leaving a thin brass layer on the copper >sheet. This happens both hot and cold. In that case, you ARE forming a molecular bond between the brass and copper, BUT you are also "BURNING" the brass (changing IT's composition/structure so that it no longer has the strength it had). You might be better off trying to join the pieces with a THIN layer of silver solder, rather than trying to "braze" brass. JK From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm Tue Nov 23 11:01:41 EST 1993 Article: 2812 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Small Torches for Silversmithing Date: 23 Nov 1993 04:55:11 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 18 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <1993Nov22.191153.22163@newsgate.sps.mot.com> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92s (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <1993Nov22.191153.22163@newsgate.sps.mot.com> jim_jaskie@tempeqm.sps.mot.com writes: > > Since I haven't seen anyone comment on a type of torch that I think is > the absolute best, I'll throw my three cents in (inflation). > > We have a small torch that uses Hydrogen and Oxygen for the fuel. These > gases are supplied by a small box with a water tank and some electrodes > that electrolyze the water. I'd love to have one, but at $900 a pop it's gonna be a while. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!mhc.mtholyoke.edu!wkaiser Tue Nov 23 11:01:44 EST 1993 Article: 2813 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!mhc.mtholyoke.edu!wkaiser From: wkaiser@MtHolyoke.edu (William F. Kaiser) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe differences Date: 23 Nov 1993 14:24:54 GMT Organization: Mount Holyoke College Lines: 101 Message-ID: <2ct6fm$4n5@slab.mtholyoke.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: mhc.mtholyoke.edu X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5 David Erickson (erickson@cs.nps.navy.mil) wrote: > In article , Drew Diamond wrote: > >In article gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes: > >>From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) > >>Subject: Re: lathe differences > >>Date: 16 Nov 1993 17:27:32 GMT > >>In article , fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com > >>(f.w.kerfoot..iii) wrote: > >>> > >>> From article , by drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond): > >>> > In article <2bu6na$3c6@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) writes: > >>> >>From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) > >>> >>Subject: lathe differences > >>> >>Date: 11 Nov 1993 20:18:50 GMT > >> > >>[............] > >> > >>> > high. Typical examples would be a Hardinge (beautiful!- English) > >>............. > >>> axis. On my dad's Schaublin, and I believe on the corresponding > >>> Hardinge, there is no carriage feed............ > >> > >>I hate to throw cold water on all the misinformation being provided, but I > >>have a Hardinge out in my shop. The cast doors on the pedestals say > >>Hardinge, Chicago (Chicago, England, maybe?). I wrote to the current > >>factory in Connecticut (or maybe Mass.) to discover the antecedents of my > >>lathe (#252) and they wrote back that all records had been destroyed in a > >>fire in 1925 or 1926, at which point they had made 5000 lathes. This puts > >>mine about 1916, since they began production in 1915. Subsequently they > >>moved back east and continue to produce one of the most elegant, accurate > >>toolroom lathes in existence. Like my 1916 version, modern Hardinge > >>toolroom lathes have all feeds and a lead screw and are distinguished by > >>their dovetail ways. I look at my lathe and I can see where all the modern > >>features had their genesis. > >> > >>What Frank may be describing is often known as a watchmaker's lathe. These > >>were small lathes having no feeds or lead screws and were usually used by > >>watchmakers to turn the pins that fit into jewel bearings. > >> > >>Gary > > > >Hello Gary. Maybe there is a Hardinge USA, and a Hardinge, England. The > >lathe we have in our workshop here, and I have the sublime privilege to > >use from time to time, is described as "Super Precision Tool Room Lathe" > >model HLV-H, made by the Hardinge Machine Tools Ltd Co., Fetham, > >Middlesex, England. Perhaps someone can clear this up for us? > > > >Regards, Drew. [ Deleted ] > > I hope there is a Hardinge expert out there who can give us a description > of the various lathes and a capsule history of the company. Just to add > one more piece of information: I have a copy of Toolmaking, an ATS book > published in 1940, which shows a picture of a Hardinge lathe which does > not have a lead screw, and in fact looks like a very large watchmakers > lathe, with perhaps 18" btw. centers. > > -Dave Erickson > I'm not an expert on Hardinge, but I have their catalog "Total Workholding by Hardinge," which contains a short history of the company. "Hardinge Brothers began in July of 1890 when two brothers from Canada, Franklin and Henry Hardinge, invented several watchmakers' tools. Their first factory was an eight-foot square building at the rear of a boarding house in Chicago, Illinois "Franklin Hardinge made a specialty of perfecting various devices and tools, obtaining between 25 and 30 patents, which mainly related to the Cataract line of precision bench lathes and attachments. Franklin and Henry together produced the first "True" chucks. "During World War I a company in Rochester, New York, originally called the Inanout Collet Manufacturing Company, and later Morrison Machine Products, started production of collets and feed fingers. Under the leadership of Douglas Anderson and Leigh Evans, Morrison Machine Products set up operations in Elmira, New York, in 1925. In 1931 Morrison Machine purchased and moved Hardinge Brothers to Elmira. On January 1, 1938, the two well-knows businesses were incorporated under the name of Hardinge Brothers, Inc." Corporate Offices and Manufacturing Facility: Hardinge Brothers, Inc. 1420 College Ave. Elmira, NY 14902-1507 USA Sales Offices in Devon, England, as well as in Australia, Canada, France, and Germany. The 300+ page catalog devotes two pages to pictures and brief specifications of ten lathes, brochures available separately. The rest of the catalog is devoted to collets and other workholding devices. Bill Kaiser wkaiser@mhc.mtholyoke.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu!DAK Wed Nov 24 19:58:36 EST 1993 Article: 2814 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu!DAK From: dak@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (David Kardelis- I am the NRA) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Tool advice needed Date: 23 Nov 1993 16:48:47 GMT Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign Lines: 20 Message-ID: <2ctetf$f6h@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Reply-To: dak@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu I was wondering if anyone had any experience with drill sets and tap and die sets. I need to get a drill set for use around the house. The Northern Tool catalog I have has a 115 piece set on sale for $50, compared to the 15piece Craftsmen set for $28. Is the craftsman set really that much better, drills are not guaranteed. Also looking for a tap and die set, again Northern Tools has a set for about $50 versus a more expesnvie craftsman set. My question is is there any real difference between drill sets? IS there a better place to order tools from than Northern? Any help would be appreciated, dave ========================================================================== David Kardelis | I am the NRA-NRA Life Gradual Student in Physics | Univ. of Ilinois | Looking for a new .SIG dak@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu | 217-333-0505 | Not necessarily the views of the ISSC or the UI At UC ========================================================================== From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!jaz0 Wed Nov 24 19:58:37 EST 1993 Article: 2815 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!jaz0 From: jaz0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH A. ZELINSKI) Subject: Re: Invar Message-ID: <1993Nov23.184133.95192@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 18:41:33 GMT Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 14 Hi Jim: Your comparison of Invar to SS is not far off the mark. In my experience, invar is a bit easier to work than inconel, but not as forgiving as SS304. those carbon tet or 1,1,1, trichlor based coolants do work quite well, but IMHO they present too large of a health risk and they are banned from my shop. I highly reccommend Safetap, which used to be a Devcon product.(it is now made by a company called ITW Fluid Products) This is an aqueous base detergent type coolant which works well on ALL materials, from Plexi- glas to the "space-age" alloys such as Invar. Also performs well on Brass, Al,Cu, Fe. And on top of all of those accolades, it is water soluble and leaves NO residue on the work if you follow up H2O with a methanol rinse. Good news if the parts are going to be soldered or welded. Cheers, Joe. jaz0@lehgih.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news Wed Nov 24 19:58:37 EST 1993 Article: 2816 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Q: DIY metal casting? Date: 23 Nov 1993 20:35:55 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2cts7b$17t@oak.oakland.edu> References: <1993Nov23.184337.29347@mlb.semi.harris.com> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article 29347@mlb.semi.harris.com, jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) writes: > My experience with backyard aluminum casting tell me that it takes a >much better setup and skill set to make a clean aluminum casting - >heated mold for starters, nice hot forge/furnace for another. The >aluminum temperature is pretty high... I think aluminum melts at about 1300-1400F, and the various zinc based casting alloys like Zamak melt at 800-900F. A significant difference, but 1400F isn't much harder to attain than 900F. My pal Doug, working from Dave Gingery's book, made a beautiful aluminum casting on his very first try. He mixed his own sand, from sandblasting sand and clay, and melted the aluminum in a cast iron pot in a forge made from some refractory bricks stacked up (not cemented), charcoal, and a shopvac for air. Besides the Dave Gingery books there is a book from Tab called something like The Complete Book of Metal Casting. Not quite sure of the title, but Lindsey has it. I had a chance to look through the book and it's quite complete and includes a lot of info not in Gingery, like the availability of pre-mixed oil-based casting sands. So I say go ahead and try aluminum; the supplies are very cheap. Use scrap aluminum, an old pot, and dig a pit in your back yard to serve as a forge. --mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!cassiel.demon.co.uk!cassiel Wed Nov 24 19:58:39 EST 1993 Article: 2817 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!cassiel.demon.co.uk!cassiel Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk (Nick Rothwell) X-Sender: (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NEW MAILGROUP for INSTRUMENT BUILDERS! Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 23:28:22 +0000 Message-ID: <9311232328.aa00573@post.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk Lines: 8 Are you including software instruments? Nick Rothwell | "That's the Waldorf set for General MIDI." CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | "FZZIIIIAAAAOOOOUUUMMMMMM ZUMZUPZUMZUP..." cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk | "Is that 'STRINGS 1'?" cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk | "Yeah. You got a problem with that?" From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!acs.ucalgary.ca!krlux Wed Nov 24 19:58:40 EST 1993 Article: 2818 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!acs.ucalgary.ca!krlux From: krlux@acs.ucalgary.ca (Kim Richard Lux) Subject: Re: Q: DIY metal casting? Message-ID: Sender: Mr. Kim Lux (krlux@acs.ucalgary.ca) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 23:57:50 GMT References: <2ctb2gINNrtp@eccdb1.pms.ford.com> Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta Keywords: aluminum metal casting Lines: 27 I have had some experience with home shop metal casting in that I built Dave Gingery's lathe from his book using a propane fired cruciple furnace. One can cast parts from originals or even to patterns that one makes with surprising accuracy. However, it takes a bit of effort. First you must build the furnace and the required equipment: cruciple tongs, pattern, flasks, etc. Then you must find a good source of fine molding sand. (Not the same as beach sand by any means.)(This was the hardest part for me) Then you will probably require several trial pours before you get out a good piece. Each pour requires making up a mold, firing the furnace, pouring the metal and cleaning up afterwards. (Once the process is learned, pieces will generally come out correct on the first pour) This is quite alot of effort for just one piece, but if more pieces are needed, it will be worth the effort in the long run. Or you may find that you enjoy aluminum casting in its own right and continue it as a hobby in itself. . From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com!sgi.dev.cdx.mot.com!johnb Wed Nov 24 19:58:41 EST 1993 Article: 2819 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com!sgi.dev.cdx.mot.com!johnb From: johnb@sgi.dev.cdx.mot.com (John Bottoms) Subject: DIY Lathes Message-ID: <1993Nov23.233246.4558@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com> Sender: news@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Merlin News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: sgi.dev.cdx.mot.com Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, MA Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 23:32:46 GMT Lines: 12 Hey, I'm dangerous. I found a motor mounted on a plate at a junk sale. The motor is driven by a DC speed control and the motor shaft is coupled via a light chain to a spindle that has a small aluminum flywheel. The shaft sticks out a bit and the unit resembles a small lathe. The motor is a 1750 RPM .75hp motor and the unit was cheap enough to play with. All I have to add is a chuck and a live center (if I get the terminology right). Where can I find this? Is this a reasonable approach for a small lathe and is there a source for an indexer for this micro-lathe? -johnbottoms Concord, MA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!ovation!lori.pica.army.mil!mike Wed Nov 24 19:58:42 EST 1993 Article: 2820 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!ovation!lori.pica.army.mil!mike From: mike@lori.pica.army.mil (Mike Folenta) Subject: Re: Tool advice needed Message-ID: Sender: usenet@pica.army.mil (USENET Special Account ) Nntp-Posting-Host: lori.pica.army.mil Reply-To: mfolenta@pica.army.mil Organization: US Army Armament, Research, & Development Center References: <2ctetf$f6h@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 22:06:58 GMT Lines: 32 dak@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (David Kardelis- I am the NRA) writes: |> I was wondering if anyone had any experience with |> drill sets and tap and die sets. I need to get a drill set |> for use around the house. The Northern Tool catalog I have has a |> 115 piece set on sale for $50, compared to the 15piece Craftsmen set for $28. |> Is the craftsman set really that much better, drills are not guaranteed. |> |> Also looking for a tap and die set, again Northern Tools has |> a set for about $50 versus a more expesnvie craftsman set. |> |> My question is is there any real difference between drill sets? |> IS there a better place to order tools from than Northern? Any |> help would be appreciated, dave |> For general usage, around the house type of stuff, the Northern set will probably work OK. If you want to do lots of metal drilling or anything resembling precision work, you will have to spend a lot more to get -good- drill bits. All this is IMHO, and sight-unseen of the Northern drill bits. And BTW, drill bits will break (especially those pesky little ones) and get dull. The better ones just take longer to fail (usually). -- ***** These are my opinions. Get your own. :-) ***** Michael Folenta | U.S. Army ARDEC Future Weapons Branch | Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806-5000 email mfolenta@pica.army.mil | (201) 724-3791 [DSN 880-3791] From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!barney!david Wed Nov 24 19:58:43 EST 1993 Article: 2821 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!barney!david From: david@barney.UUCP (David Hoopes) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Q: DIY metal casting? Keywords: aluminum metal casting Message-ID: <193@barney.UUCP> Date: 24 Nov 93 13:06:33 GMT References: <2ctb2gINNrtp@eccdb1.pms.ford.com> Organization: Exabyte, Lenexa (Formerly Tallgrass Technologies) Lines: 40 krlux@acs.ucalgary.ca (Kim Richard Lux) writes: >I have had some experience with home shop metal casting in that I >built Dave Gingery's lathe from his book using a propane fired >cruciple furnace. >One can cast parts from originals or even to patterns that one >makes with surprising accuracy. However, it takes a bit of >effort. >First you must build the furnace and the required equipment: >cruciple tongs, pattern, flasks, etc. I am in the process of building a propane fired forge that is designed to double as furnace for casting. I have some hinges that I need to replicate. I have a couple of questions. What did you use for a cruciple? >Then you must find a good source of fine molding sand. (Not the >same as beach sand by any means.)(This was the hardest part for >me) What did you use for molding sand? Where did you get it? [snip snip] >This is quite alot of effort for just one piece, but if more >pieces are needed, it will be worth the effort in the long run. >Or you may find that you enjoy aluminum casting in its own right >and continue it as a hobby in itself. Just what I needed another hobbie :-) -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- David Hoopes Exabyte Corp. david@tallgrass.COM 11100 W 82nd St. Voice: (913) 492-6002 x3323 Lenexa, Ks 66214 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!knaell Wed Nov 24 19:58:44 EST 1993 Article: 2822 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!knaell From: knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ken Knaell) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: water-welder Message-ID: <73251@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: 24 Nov 93 18:49:20 GMT Reply-To: knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ken Knaell) Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD Lines: 17 re: Posting by jim_jaskie@tempeqm.sps.mot.com on H2/O2 welder. This posting was read with much interest since I have heard about such a device from a previous boss I had worked for years ago. A year or so ago I saw a photo of such a device in a book and managed to read the company name but did not find them in the Thomas register. Do not remember the name anymore but could probably find it. It seems like a good idea to me since it would probably not be too hard to build the gas generator and use an oxy/acetylene torch head to burn the gases. Silicon rectifiers and the low voltage transformer could probably be gotten at Radio Shack for the DC electrolysis power supply. When I worked for a glass company we used H2/O2 (from cylinders) to weld platinum platinum/rhodium wire to make high temperture thermocouples since it did not contaminate the metals. ken From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Wed Nov 24 19:58:45 EST 1993 Article: 2823 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Q: DIY metal casting? Message-ID: <1993Nov24.124925.158@flying-disk.com> Date: 24 Nov 93 12:49:24 PDT References: <1993Nov23.184337.29347@mlb.semi.harris.com> <2cts7b$17t@oak.oakland.edu> Distribution: world Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 32 In article <2cts7b$17t@oak.oakland.edu>, mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) writes: > So I say go ahead and try aluminum; the supplies are very cheap. Use scrap > aluminum, an old pot, and dig a pit in your back yard to serve as a forge. I agree. A friend who had *zero* metalworking experience started with the Gingery book and got acceptable results after his first couple of tries. He now uses PetroBond prepared sand and thinks it is the best stuff around. As an early test of it, he cast some US coins. I have the nickle, and it is so good I can read the date on it. The best material we have found so far is the castings from old 8" and larger hard disk drives. The smaller ones often use something other than aluminum, so avoid them. The castings we made from aluminum soda cans were "gummy" when we machined them. He is almost finished with his *second* Gingery lathe. He was not happy with the results of his first attempt, so he decided to do another one. This time he "cheated" and used my mill to speed up the process, but the results are very nice. I am in the process of making Gingery's Li'l Bertha electric furnace -- I'll let you know how it works out. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws Wed Nov 24 19:58:46 EST 1993 Article: 2824 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws From: jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) Subject: Re: water-welder References: <73251@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 22:08:35 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: billy.mlb.semi.harris.com Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL Sender: news@mlb.semi.harris.com Message-ID: <1993Nov24.220835.10040@mlb.semi.harris.com> Lines: 11 I think an outfit named Henes is one of the main mfrs of these torches. The setup is pretty simple. They add a bit of KOH to the distilled water. The hardest problem will probably be getting the gas fittings for the generator; I was looking for them at the welding shop and they had none nor idea where to get 'em. -- ########################################################################## #Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons # #living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-# #sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!# From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!psgrain!agora!lynns Thu Nov 25 23:48:37 EST 1993 Article: 2825 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!psgrain!agora!lynns From: lynns@agora.rain.com (Lynn Saunders) Subject: Atlas lathe for sale Message-ID: Organization: Open Communications Forum X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 23:46:30 GMT Lines: 1 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal Thu Nov 25 23:48:37 EST 1993 Article: 2826 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 22:50:21 GMT Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX Lines: 47 In article neilm@halcyon.com writes: >In article <2cbdai$cls@usenet.rpi.edu> edgarm@marcus.its.rpi.edu writes: >> I am just getting into silversmithing and am trying to do it on a >> tight budget. The other day I was in a Radio Shack store where I >> saw a very small butane torch. It was about 4 inches tall >> and took a cartridge refil. >> My question is, are these torches suitable for soldering small >> items, like jewelry? > I haven't tried one, but the short answer I'll give you is no. >I see two problems with them. They don't sound too versatile and I'd >guess they're expensive to operate. > They may work fine on a very small piece, but silver soaks up >heat like a sponge soaks up water. The work itself is going to be >drawing heat from the joint as fast as that little flame can pour it >in and you'll play hell trying to get it hot enough. Probably work for >attaching a bail or soldering jump-rings, but I doubt it would be much >good if you wanted to sweat something down to a backing piece. > Also, those little CO2 cartridge-sized gas bottles have got to >be expensive. If you only use it once in a while it might be okay, but >silver work ain't like that. :) > I use a Bernz-O-Matic propane-torch-on-a-hose with a "pencil >flame" tip (which is still pretty coarse) that cost about $40 a couple >of years ago. Atmosphere-acetylene works well too but it's messy (black >soot) and you have to buy or lease a tank. Since my shop is inside my >house, I'm not sure I want that much bottled gas in there. I stock up >on propane bottles when they go on sale (and store them away from where >I use 'em), that helps keep fuel prices down. > One of these days I'm going to shell out for a "Little Torch" oxy- >propane setup. If you want the names of a few suppliers, let me know. There's always "Mapp" gas (ethylene or a mixture of ethylene/propane) that is available in the same size/same fittings bottles as the propane bottles for Bernz-O-Matic style torches that burns significantly hotter that plain propane and doesn't cost much more. I used mapp gas in a plain propane torch successfully to fix some motorcycle exhaust pipes (used a flux-coated bronze brazing rod) when propane alone wouldn't get hot enough. The mapp gas flame took a little while to get the pipes up to a workable temperature, but it did work(an oxy-propane or oxy-ethylene torch would've been a lot more fun, though). I'd bet that mapp gas in the propane torch-onna-hose would work pretty well and cost effective for silver work. ========================================================================= Neal Howard neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org CompuTrac,Inc. (Richardson,TX) |355033| Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, not CompuTrac's. DoD #686 "Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, and then perhaps '91 XLH-1200 we shall learn the truth." - August Kekule' in 1890 ========================================================================= From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!bellevue-ip16.halcyon.com!user Thu Nov 25 23:48:38 EST 1993 Article: 2827 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!bellevue-ip16.halcyon.com!user From: burk@halcyon.com (Terry Burkhardt) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Mokume Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1993 19:52:44 +0000 Organization: Burk's Cafe Creole & Cajun Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bellevue-ip16.halcyon.com In article , johnri@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) wrote: > To all who don't know what Mokume is I will tell you what I am > calling mokume. I am forge welding brass and copper sheet together in my > forge and them carving and filing for surface decoration. Very similar to > making damascus steel but much easier to weld. > My problem is this. I would like to make some twisted patterns. The > problem is that when attempting to twist the welded (brazed) billet cold the > welds delaminate and when attempting to twist them hot they delaminate > either in the twisting process or in the subsequent flat forging process. I > know this is possible as I've seen twisted patterns in brass/copper mokume. > > Any help here would be mighty appreciated. > > Rick If you get delamination in brass copper mokume, it means your bonds are not sufficiently strong. Try at least a four to one reduction in billet thikness (hot) before timming edges. Then forge billet into rod. Do not forge below a dull red heat. Billet should be able to be twisted either hot or cold. Hint- billet is too hot if your brass layer beads. Phillip Baldwin Shining Wave Metals Snohomish, WA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!psinntp!execnet!gary.rosenkranz Thu Nov 25 23:48:39 EST 1993 Article: 2828 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Small milling machines From: gary.rosenkranz@execnet.com (Gary Rosenkranz) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!psinntp!execnet!gary.rosenkranz Distribution: world Message-ID: <1.1558.1835.0NB4C358@execnet.com> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 93 22:18:00 -0500 Organization: The Executive Network Information System Lines: 8 I have a Bridgeport series 1 milling machine now and need a 2 nd machine I do not have a lot of space and would like a small milling machine to make injection molds. I need a machine that will not have a lot of vibration when cutting. Is there a good machine ( that is also small ) that i should look for. I recently saw a small Classing at an auction that looked nice. Any help would be appreciated. Gary From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers Sun Nov 28 11:56:13 EST 1993 Article: 2829 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers From: handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (Howard Anders) Subject: Re: water-welder Message-ID: <1993Nov26.055447.7893@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia References: <1993Nov24.220835.10040@mlb.semi.harris.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 05:54:47 GMT Lines: 8 Just a word of warning re "do-it-yourself" water welders. We have one of these at my work and there's more to these than meets the eye. If you are not very careful they tend to do nasty things like explode! I don't think it would be as simple as you might think to make one of these at home. If there is interest, I'll check the manufacturers handbook of the one I have here at work and post some more information. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!jaz0 Sun Nov 28 11:56:13 EST 1993 Article: 2830 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!jaz0 From: jaz0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH A. ZELINSKI) Subject: H2O2 Torch questions!? Message-ID: <1993Nov26.062010.73545@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 06:20:10 GMT Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 14 To Jim Jaski: I am intrigued by your description of the Oxy/Hydrogen torch fueled by electrolysis of water. Can you provide the readers with some more in depth info? Such as brand name of this rig? Are there two separate electrolysis chambers in the box or just one? How are the resulting gases pressurized sufficiently to operate the torch? How large is the orifice in the torch tip? Is the 110 AC rectified to provide DC current for this process? I have used H2/O2 torches primarily for working Quartz, and I concur with your statements about the heat output and flame cleanliness, and also about the safety aspects of using/storing pressurized cylinders in the work area. Please enlighten us further!! Cheers, Joe. jaz0@lehigh.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!sparrow.demon.co.uk!boris Sun Nov 28 11:56:14 EST 1993 Article: 2831 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk (boris) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!sparrow.demon.co.uk!boris Subject: Engraving Silver Organization: Straightjacket Systems/London Reply-To: boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Simple NEWS 2.0 (ka9q DIS 1.24) Lines: 27 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 17:09:41 +0000 Message-ID: <754333781snz@sparrow.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk Hi all ***Does anyone know of a good text on engraving silver ,also what power of light source is advisable ,ie how many lux ? -- +==============================================+ + /o o\ } Who taught granny to suck eggs? + + v } boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk { + + """ } of LONDON ,ENGLAND { + +=="""=========================================+ From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm Sun Nov 28 11:56:14 EST 1993 Article: 2832 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: H2O2 Torch questions!? Date: 26 Nov 1993 09:48:07 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 23 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <1993Nov26.062010.73545@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92s (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <1993Nov26.062010.73545@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> jaz0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu writes: > > I am intrigued by your description of the Oxy/Hydrogen torch fueled by > electrolysis of water. Can you provide the readers with some more in depth > info? Such as brand name of this rig? SWest (10803 Composite Drive, Dallas, TX 75220, 214/350-4011) offers the Rey Hydroflux. The Hydroflux Welder offered by Rio Grande Albuquerque (6901 Washington NE, Albuquerque, NM 87109, 800/545-6566) appears to be the same unit. Both are priced at just under $1,000 in the catalogs I have here (a year or two old). Cheers! Neil Proprietor, Some Sort of Silversmith -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!ogicse!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Sun Nov 28 11:56:15 EST 1993 Article: 2833 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!ogicse!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Burning water for heat, Was Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Message-ID: <1993Nov27.085050.2567@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Date: 27 Nov 93 08:50:50 GMT Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1993Nov27.085050.2567 References: <1993Nov23.102725.1@max.u.washington.edu> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA Lines: 14 games@max.u.washington.edu writes: : : Can someone post more about these torches. I would like a manufacturers name, : or even a place where I can buy one. I am very interested in the concept : of controlled burning of water, and I didn't know that there were any : applications out there besides rocket motors (like the RL-10's) that used : this process. Alpha Supply in Seattle sells one. Sorry, I don't have the address or phone number handy. You should be able to get the number from information. They are expensive - I seem to recall that they cost around $900-$1000. Bill From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!ogicse!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Sun Nov 28 11:56:16 EST 1993 Article: 2834 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!ogicse!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: water-welder Message-ID: <1993Nov27.090723.2667@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Date: 27 Nov 93 09:07:23 GMT Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1993Nov27.090723.2667 References: <73251@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA Lines: 11 knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ken Knaell) writes: : re: Posting by jim_jaskie@tempeqm.sps.mot.com on H2/O2 welder. : This posting was read with much interest since I have heard about such : a device from a previous boss I had worked for years ago. A year : or so ago I saw a photo of such a device in a book and managed to read : the company name but did not find them in the Thomas register. : Do not remember the name anymore but could probably find it. You can try Johnson Matthey, in West Chester PA (215) 648-8000. Bill From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm Sun Nov 28 11:56:16 EST 1993 Article: 2835 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Burning water for heat, Was Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing Date: 27 Nov 1993 09:49:43 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 38 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <1993Nov27.085050.2567@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92s (Beta) Originator: neilm@chinook.halcyon.com In article <1993Nov27.085050.2567@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com writes: > > games@max.u.washington.edu writes: > : > : Can someone post more about these torches. I would like a manufacturers > name, > > Alpha Supply in Seattle sells one. Sorry, I don't have the address or > phone number handy. You should be able to get the number from information. > > They are expensive - I seem to recall that they cost around $900-$1000. Alpha Supply, Inc. 1225 Hollis Street P. O. Box 2133 Bremerton, WA 98310 206/373-3302 206/625-0564 from Seattle exchanges 800/ALPHA11 from outside 206 Info is about 2 years old; numbers may have changed. They offered the L&R Aqua Torch 2800 for $1,299 in 1991. (I found Alpha to be a little pricey, but they always had high quality stuff.) Cheers! Neil Proprietor, Some Sort of Silversmith -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!execu!brettm Sun Nov 28 11:56:17 EST 1993 Article: 2836 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!execu!brettm From: brettm@execu.execu.com (Brett Miller) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: ABANA address Message-ID: <9150@execu.execu.com> Date: 28 Nov 93 16:13:09 GMT Organization: Comshare, Inc. Ann Arbor Development Center Lines: 23 Many people have written asking for the ABANA (Artist-Blacksmiths' Association of North America) address. Here it is: ABANA P.O. Box 1181 Nashville, Indiana 47448 (812) 988-6919 I don't have any commercial interest in the group other than being a card-carrying member. Brett --------------------------------------------------------------------- Brett Miller Comshare Inc, Ann Arbor MI brettm@comshare.com ********************************************************************* * The views expressed herein are not necessarily those of Comshare. * * In fact, they might not even be mine. I'm just argumentative. * ********************************************************************* From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!knaell Tue Nov 30 12:47:35 EST 1993 Article: 2837 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!knaell From: knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ken Knaell) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: H2O2 welder Message-ID: <74261@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: 29 Nov 93 15:28:57 GMT Reply-To: knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ken Knaell) Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD Lines: 25 It seems that it might be easy to build a water welder if one enclosed a volume of water and separated the volume into two spaces above the positive and negative electrodes to collect the H2 and O2. One could then use an Oxy-Acetylene torch with the handpiece valves wide open and regulate the amount of heat by adjusting the current into the electrolysis cell. However one thing scares me about doing this possibly very dangerous "build your own" water welder. If perhaps the oxygen and hydrogen get mixed in this enclosed space one could have an explosion. This might happen if perhaps one valve ont the oxy-acet handpiece was left closed and both gasses had to exit bya single line. If you have ever seen the fierceness that pure oxygen lends to an otherwise placid flame this poses a a serious threat. To see how the temperment of such a flame changes try pointing an oxy-acet handpiece exhaling oxygen into the base of a bunsen burner. The flame will jump down into the base of the tube with a nasty pop and sound like it is trying to melt the tube. It sounds easy but BE CAREFUL !! //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// | KENNETH KNAELL | STATEMENTS MADE HERE DO NOT | | CARDEROCK DIV NSWC | REPRESENT POLICY OF THE | | BETHESDA, MD 20084-5000 | U.S. NAVY | From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!cyanbug.watstar.uwaterloo.ca!TNYE Tue Nov 30 12:47:36 EST 1993 Article: 2838 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!cyanbug.watstar.uwaterloo.ca!TNYE From: TNYE@MANSCI.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Tim Nye) Subject: Re: Making a punch and die. Message-ID: Lines: 74 Sender: news@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca Organization: University of Waterloo References: <2cr244$520@usenet.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 16:15:39 GMT In article <2cr244$520@usenet.rpi.edu> edgarm@cii3130-05.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) writes: >From: edgarm@cii3130-05.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) >Subject: Making a punch and die. >Date: 22 Nov 1993 18:58:12 GMT >Greetings, >I would like to make 100+ copies of a piece of jewlery out of >20 to 26 guage, sterling silver flat stock. The piece has >Is it possible to make a punch and die from a photoetching >or similar process? >Rio Grande catalog that was like a jewels saw mounted in a frame. >For a couple hundred bucks they would send you the frame, some >tool steel plate and a GROSS of blades < your gonna need 'em :). >Any suggestions? >Thanks. >Marc Edgar >edgarm@rpi.edu Marc, There's two things I can think of. First, if you can get some of the fine blades you could take them to a woodworking machinery dealer with some of the material you intend to cut and ask for a demonstration on a scroll saw ( the kind people use to make jig-saw puzzles). One with variable speed should allow cutting slow enough for the metal, and if it works this might save a lot of elbow grease. You might also get away with stacking sheets of silver and cutting several parts at a time. Second, a 'rubber-pad die' might work, but I've not done this myself, so you would have to tinker with it. My Tool and Manufacturing Engineers Handbook describes rubber pad die forming of sheet metal, but I'm sure I've seen rubber pad die blanking somewhere. Start by making a punch, that is, a master of the shape you intend to cut from the silver. My guess is something like 1/8" mild steel sheet would work. Cut out the rough shape with a hacksaw and file to the finished shape. Also file some clearance on the edges, i.e., make the edges several degrees less than 90 degrees to the surface. Now get a piece of stiff rubber (such as cut from the sidewall of an old tire) a little larger than the part you want to make. Find a good size mechanic's vise or arbor press and put in a sandwith of the punch (with the wide side against the silver), the silver sheet and the rubber. Squeeze this assembly in the vise and the rubber will shear the excess silver away from the part. | Vise Jaw | |______________________| /________\ - Punch ================== - Silver sheet __________________ |________________| - Rubber pad ________________________ | | | Vise Jaw | This arrangement would only cut the outline of the part, but you could make up shaped punches from pin-punches by grinding them to the shape you want and manually punching holes where you want them. Again, I haven't done this myself, but it may be able to save you some time. Regards, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tim Nye Room CPH 4364 University of Waterloo (519) 885-1211 X6099 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Tue Nov 30 12:47:37 EST 1993 Article: 2839 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Engraving Silver Date: 29 Nov 1993 20:15:35 GMT Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 8 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2ddl97$1fi@tymix.Tymnet.COM> References: <754333781snz@sparrow.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com Linsey books (see the FAQ) has a reprint of a ~1900 book on engraving, mostly on engraving text. Why is silver special? I've seen nothing on engraving that appears to be metal-dependant. JK From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf Tue Nov 30 12:47:37 EST 1993 Article: 2840 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf From: jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Organization: Control Data Systems Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 20:54:27 GMT Message-ID: References: <74261@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Sender: usenet@cdsmail.cdc.com (News Poster) Lines: 40 In article <74261@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ken Knaell) writes: |> It seems that it might be easy to build a water welder if one enclosed |> a volume of water and separated the volume into two spaces above the |> positive and negative electrodes to collect the H2 and O2. One could |> then use an Oxy-Acetylene torch with the handpiece valves wide open |> and regulate the amount of heat by adjusting the current into the |> electrolysis cell. However one thing scares me about doing this |> possibly very dangerous "build your own" water welder. |> |> If perhaps the oxygen and hydrogen get mixed in this enclosed |> space one could have an explosion. This might happen if perhaps |> one valve ont the oxy-acet handpiece was left closed and both gasses |> had to exit bya single line. If you have ever seen the fierceness |> that pure oxygen lends to an otherwise placid flame this poses a |> a serious threat. To see how the temperment of such a flame changes |> try pointing an oxy-acet handpiece exhaling oxygen into the base of |> a bunsen burner. The flame will jump down into the base of the tube |> with a nasty pop and sound like it is trying to melt the tube. |> |> It sounds easy but BE CAREFUL !! |> |> |> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// |> | KENNETH KNAELL | STATEMENTS MADE HERE DO NOT | |> | CARDEROCK DIV NSWC | REPRESENT POLICY OF THE | |> | BETHESDA, MD 20084-5000 | U.S. NAVY | Well, that is what check valves are for, but it would take a fairly sensitive one (a float system of some sort?) to work at the low pressures that something like this would generate. So how do the commercial units keep up pressure, and how much do they use? I can envision a sealed electrolysis unit with a water level sensor that pumps water in when the level falls too low. The gasses would then build pressure in their respective chambers. You could scale the pressure ratio by how large the chambers were. Equal sized would give 2/1 (H2/O2) which might be what you want anyway. I imagine you'd only need three to five psi for the thing to work okay. I forget my chemistry, however. As the pressure builds up will the electrolysis rate decrease, or does it stay more or less constant? From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!cronkite.cisco.com!daveu Tue Nov 30 12:47:38 EST 1993 Article: 2841 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!cronkite.cisco.com!daveu From: daveu@cisco.com (Dave Uebele) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: casting copper Date: 29 Nov 1993 23:32:40 GMT Organization: cisco Systems, Inc., Menlo Park, Ca. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <2de0qoINNmqc@cronkite.cisco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: glare.cisco.com I'm interested in trying to cast copper. The application I'm thinking of is old style soldering irons, (the type that you heat in a firepot ie, non-electric). I'd like to do a small production run (approx ten units). Each soldering iron will be 1/4 to 3 ounces of copper cast around an iron rod. I was thinking of using plaster molds, though I might try sand casting. Any suggestions on type of crucible, flux, alloys/source for material, and misc precautions? thanks dave -- Dave Uebele daveu@cisco.com DoD# 1717 '92 R100R From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel!rat!zimmer!news Tue Nov 30 12:47:39 EST 1993 Article: 2842 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel!rat!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: 4 pins in surface gauge? Message-ID: Sender: news@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 02:22:20 GMT Lines: 10 I picked up a Starrett surface gauge at an antique swap meet for $10. Good deal I guess since the new item lists for about $70. But what are the retractable pins in each corner for? THANKS!! ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple.com!apple!mumbo.apple.com!gallant.apple.com!lagae1.apple.com!lagae Tue Nov 30 12:47:40 EST 1993 Article: 2843 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!apple.com!apple!mumbo.apple.com!gallant.apple.com!lagae1.apple.com!lagae From: Michael Lagae Subject: Glass Cutting Saws? Sender: news@gallant.apple.com Message-ID: <1993Nov30.004403.27993@gallant.apple.com> X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d20 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 00:44:03 GMT X-Xxdate: Mon, 29 Nov 93 00:43:05 GMT X-Xxmessage-Id: Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 40 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.misc:2520 rec.crafts.metalworking:2843 rec.woodworking:27542 Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding glass cutting band saws. I saw a post in rec.crafts.misc (I believe) about a year ago from someone who seemed very pleased with a stained glass cutting band saw. However, I!ve talked to a few glass dealers who claim that they cut very slowly (one inch/minute) and really aren!t worth it unless you need to make very integrate cuts which would be impossible to do otherwise. I!ve only actually seen one such band saw. I don!t recall the brand, but it didn!t seem all that durable, was a rather small table top unit and was extremely expensive; around $500. The only feature that set it apart from other band saws is that it had a water reservoir around the lower wheel. I!d like to get back into making stained glass lamps and the idea of being able to saw quickly through glass is appealing. However, I!m leery of purchasing a hobbyist type of machine. I!d be much more inclined to spend that much or more for a good quality tool that could be used for other materials as well. So, my questions are: 1. Does anyone have any experience with any glass cutting band saws? How fast can they cut and do you find that you use it for most of your glass cutting or only for those pieces that would be impossible to do otherwise? 2. Does anyone have any experience with any other tools that could be used to cut glass? Does anyone make glass cutting blades for larger band saws or scroll saws? Thanks for any info. -Michael Michael Lagae lagae@apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!yeshua.marcam.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!pcies4.trl.OZ.AU!drew Tue Nov 30 12:47:45 EST 1993 Article: 2844 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!yeshua.marcam.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!pcies4.trl.OZ.AU!drew From: drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond) Subject: Re: Hardinge Brothers and Subsidiaries Message-ID: Keywords: lathe, Hardinge Lines: 39 Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research References: Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 06:00:21 GMT In article fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) writes: >From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) >Subject: Hardinge Brothers and Subsidiaries >Keywords: lathe, Hardinge >Date: 24 Nov 93 18:23:05 GMT >Still unable to kick the habit, I did some more research on the issue >which arose when Hardinge lathes were identified which were apparently >built in both the US and the UK. The parent company is in fact Hardinge >Brothers, Inc., of Horseheads NY, USA. Someone (Gary?) previously mentioned >Elmira NY. Horseheads is a few miles West, as anyone who has visited >the race track at nearby Watkins' Glen would know (but I didn't know >that Hardinge was located there). > >I found 3 subsidiaries, all owned by Hardinge Brothers in the USA. >They are Hardinge Brothers GMBH in Germany, Hardinge Machine tools, in >France, and Hardinge Machine Tools Ltd. in Exeter, England. The latter >is, if memory serves, the reference found on the Hardinge lathe which >led to the assumption they were an English compnay. Another reference >indicated that Hardinge Machine Tools Ltd. is a distributor, which >would seem to make sense, in that it would be difficult to support >multiple factories in what is a relatively small business. I assume >therefore that the label on the English Hardinge was a distributor's >label of some sort, as opposed to something cast into the machine >itself. The English subsidiary was established in 1937. > >Frank Kerfoot >fwk@hogpa.att.com Thank-you Frank. This has been a most interesting discussion. The only thing I have to go on here is the lathe itself; a Hardinge model HLV-H, and the extensive operator's handbook/manual. It is a beautiful machine, with dove tail bed, powered slide and carriage, and continuous speed control via cone pulleys- a pleasure to use. But it reeks Englishness, the wiring is English style ("mains etc."), everything about it is English, and it it clearly, and proudly marked; "Hardinge, Feltham, Middlesex, England" no mention of any part or component being made in the USA. Kind Regards, Drew. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hplextra!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Tue Nov 30 12:47:46 EST 1993 Article: 2845 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hplextra!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: <1993Nov30.074025.2985@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 07:40:25 GMT Lines: 20 jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) writes: : : So how do the commercial units keep up pressure, and how much do they : use? I can envision a sealed electrolysis unit with a water level : sensor that pumps water in when the level falls too low. The gasses : would then build pressure in their respective chambers. You could scale : the pressure ratio by how large the chambers were. Equal sized would : give 2/1 (H2/O2) which might be what you want anyway. I imagine you'd : only need three to five psi for the thing to work okay. I forget my : chemistry, however. As the pressure builds up will the electrolysis : rate decrease, or does it stay more or less constant? Since neither O2 or H2 are particularly soluble in water, I don't think that the rate would decrease much with pressure. At least, until it got fairly high. Remember that these torches use minute tips - about the size of a hypodermic needle. I doubt if more than a pound or so of pressure would be necessary. Bill From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Tue Nov 30 12:47:47 EST 1993 Article: 2846 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: 4 pins in surface gauge? Date: 30 Nov 1993 08:32:18 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2df0ei$erj@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk In article , gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: |> |> |> |> I picked up a Starrett surface gauge at an antique swap meet for |> $10. |> Good deal I guess since the new item lists for about $70. But what |> are |> the retractable pins in each corner for? THANKS!! ...running along the edges of items, e.g. a surface plate. By this means you can get a straight line on an item without a reference edge. This presumes that the surface plate has a straight edge... -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Tue Nov 30 12:47:48 EST 1993 Article: 2847 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Hardinge Brothers and Subsidiaries Date: 30 Nov 1993 08:36:29 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 35 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2df0md$erj@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk Keywords: lathe, Hardinge In article , drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond) writes: |> |> Thank-you Frank. This has been a most interesting discussion. The |> only thing |> I have to go on here is the lathe itself; a Hardinge model HLV-H, and |> the |> extensive operator's handbook/manual. It is a beautiful machine, with |> dove |> tail bed, powered slide and carriage, and continuous speed control |> via cone |> pulleys- a pleasure to use. But it reeks Englishness, the wiring is |> English |> style ("mains etc."), everything about it is English, and it it |> clearly, |> and proudly marked; "Hardinge, Feltham, Middlesex, England" no |> mention of |> any part or component being made in the USA. |> |> Kind Regards, Drew. |> I have read an article in Model Engineer (The UK model engineering mag.) about one of their reporters going to the Hardinge factory in the UK (Feltham?) and drooling over the bits of lathe which were in the _reject_ box! He reckoned that they were better than the parts issued by other companies! This article does show that Hardinge do/did make their own lathes in the UK, although they might have used a USA design, modified to suit. -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Tue Nov 30 12:47:50 EST 1993 Article: 2848 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: Hardinge Brothers and Subsidiaries Organization: AT&T Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 14:13:14 GMT Message-ID: References: <2df0md$erj@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> Lines: 52 >From article <2df0md$erj@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk>, by djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins): > In article , drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond) writes: > |> > |> Thank-you Frank. This has been a most interesting discussion. The > |> only thing > |> I have to go on here is the lathe itself; a Hardinge model HLV-H, and > |> the > |> extensive operator's handbook/manual. It is a beautiful machine, with > |> dove > |> tail bed, powered slide and carriage, and continuous speed control > |> via cone > |> pulleys- a pleasure to use. But it reeks Englishness, the wiring is > |> English > |> style ("mains etc."), everything about it is English, and it it > |> clearly, > |> and proudly marked; "Hardinge, Feltham, Middlesex, England" no > |> mention of > |> any part or component being made in the USA. > |> > |> Kind Regards, Drew. > |> > > I have read an article in Model Engineer (The UK model engineering > mag.) about one of their reporters going to the Hardinge factory in > the UK (Feltham?) and drooling over the bits of lathe which were in > the _reject_ box! He reckoned that they were better than the parts > issued by other companies! > > This article does show that Hardinge do/did make their own lathes in > the UK, although they might have used a USA design, modified to suit. It is interesting that Drew's address in Middlesex differs from the address in the reference to the US company's subsidiary in Exeter, Devon. However, it also seems quite odd that Hardinge would have 2 operations in the UK, one importing the US version, and the other, totally independent in the sense of corporate affiliation from what I can tell, who makes a UK-manufactured copy (based on Drew's description, especially of the dovetailed ways). It may be possible that the UK manufacturing entity existed earlier, also as a Hardinge Brothers (USA) subsidiary, but that the company has since consolidated to one manufacturing site (in the US) and marketing outlets overseas. By the way, Drew, does the Hardinge lathe you have access to have metric leadscrews? This might explain a separate manufacturing operation some time ago when there was little or no demand for metric lathes in the US. Does anyone located in the UK (or elsewhere) have the UK equivalent to Dunn and Bradstreet's (sp?) book of corporate affiliations in the company library, and would they be interested in doing 10 minutes of research? Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!cheech Tue Nov 30 12:47:51 EST 1993 Article: 2849 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!cheech From: cheech@med.unc.edu (cheech@med.unc.edu (Greg Young)) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 30 Nov 1993 17:09:08 GMT Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine Lines: 81 Message-ID: <2dfunk$t1q@samba.oit.unc.edu> References: <1993Nov30.074025.2985@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hasty.med.unc.edu Summary: more speculations Cc: In article <1993Nov30.074025.2985@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, bill nelson wrote: >jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) writes: >: >: So how do the commercial units keep up pressure, and how much do they >: use? I can envision a sealed electrolysis unit with a water level >: sensor that pumps water in when the level falls too low. The gasses >: would then build pressure in their respective chambers. You could scale >: the pressure ratio by how large the chambers were. Equal sized would >: give 2/1 (H2/O2) which might be what you want anyway. I imagine you'd >: only need three to five psi for the thing to work okay. I forget my >: chemistry, however. As the pressure builds up will the electrolysis >: rate decrease, or does it stay more or less constant? > >Since neither O2 or H2 are particularly soluble in water, I don't think >that the rate would decrease much with pressure. At least, until it got >fairly high. > >Remember that these torches use minute tips - about the size of a hypodermic >needle. I doubt if more than a pound or so of pressure would be necessary. > >Bill Right, the decrease in electrolysis rate over the pressure range of interest would be negligible. The minimum usable pressure would be a function of flame velocity. The pressure has to be high enough that the gas velocity through the tip exceeds the flame velocity of H2/O2, which is pretty high. Otherwise you get a flashback. I hate flashbacks. Pressurization of the gasses could be managed by a pressurized reservoir attached to the electrolysis chamber. An air pressurized water reservoir about 10X the volume of the chamber should work if half the volume is airspace. This would keep the pressure drop within reason. Initiate guesstimation mode -- Check assumptions before using A standard O2 bottle contains about 300 cu.ft. at STP. If a long work session uses 10% of a bottle of O2, that's 30 cu.ft. or about 1400 ml of H2O electrolyzed. With a 500 ml chamber and a 5 liter reservoir half filled with water, the pressure drop over the run would be from 5 psi to 3.5 psi. Whether this would be acceptable I don't have the experience to judge. Control of the electrolysis rate could be accomplished using cylindrical or tapered electrodes. As gas builds up the water will be forced into the reservoir and the working length of the electrode will be reduced, reducing the rate of gas production. Some experimentation would produce a good electrode geometry. Since water electrolyzes at about 1.5V, a 3 volt supply should do a good job if the water has some salts in it. The current requirements can be calculated. The low voltage reduces the possibility of sparks in the chamber. Sparks in the chamber would be a BAD thing. The problem I don't see a way around is the need to get the mixture at the torch perfect. If you don't get a perfect mixture then hydrogen or oxygen builds up in the cell, since electrolysis produces exactly two volumes of H2 per volume of O2. The electrode geometry could eliminate the possibility of mixing in the chamber by shutting down the electrolysis, but the torch is going to go out. A floating ball type valve could keep water out of the hoses when this happens, but an unplanned shutdown could be a real pain. Feed me an interesting idea and I can ramble for hours. I'll shut up now. Disclaimer -- H2 and O2 do very energetic things when mixed. Making an apparatus like the one under discussion could be very hazardous to your health. Explosions may ensue. These ramblings are those of the author alone and are not in any way, shape, form, or fashion official policy of the University of North Carolina. Okay, Lori? Did I forget anything important? Greg AC4YT cheech@med.unc.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!ra!leia.nrl.navy.mil!ssgm Tue Nov 30 12:47:52 EST 1993 Article: 2850 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!ra!leia.nrl.navy.mil!ssgm From: ssgm@leia.nrl.navy.mil (Tom Dugan) Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? Message-ID: Sender: ssgm@leia.nrl.navy.mil (SSGM) Organization: Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC References: <1993Nov30.004403.27993@gallant.apple.com> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 16:26:16 GMT Lines: 33 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.misc:2525 rec.crafts.metalworking:2850 rec.woodworking:27591 In article <1993Nov30.004403.27993@gallant.apple.com>, Michael Lagae writes: |> Hi, (Questions on glass cutting band saws deleted) |> |> So, my questions are: |> |> 1. Does anyone have any experience with any glass cutting band |> saws? How fast can they cut and do you find that you use it for |> most of your glass cutting or only for those pieces that would be |> impossible to do otherwise? |> |> 2. Does anyone have any experience with any other tools that |> could be used to cut glass? Does anyone make glass cutting blades |> for larger band saws or scroll saws? |> |> Thanks for any info. |> |> -Michael |> |> Michael Lagae lagae@apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. Perhaps not a useful answer to question #2, but during my telescope making days I read where you could cut plate glass with scissors under water. I tried this and it actually works! (Note: Do NOT use the wife's sewing scissors for this experiment.) It actually takes a bit of effort to get through the glass (1/4"), but I could cut small (2") pieces without problem. Just take an old pair of scissors and your glass and hold 'em in a bucket of water. Cut as desired. Just thought you might like to know. -- Tom Dugan - Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC ssgm@leia.nrl.navy.mil From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm Wed Dec 1 11:39:15 EST 1993 Article: 2851 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm From: rogerm@fc.hp.com (Roger Mitchell) Subject: Re: gas welding/brazing aluminum Sender: news@fc.hp.com (news daemon) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 20:15:42 GMT References: <2dg1qc$ktl@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: ux0046.fc.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.4] Lines: 15 You are in for some real tricky business. AIRCO makes a special flux and rod to use with it for torch welding aluminum. I use to use it when I had the job for a living of welding return-bend tubes in aluminum heat exchangers and it worked quite well. One big problem is that due to the orange flare off of the flux, you cannot see what you are doing and it must all be done by feel. The flux melts at just a couple of degrees less than the rod, to help you tell just how hot you have things. After the flux melts you then start applying the rod with just enough heat being added to keep the rod flowing. The biggest problem with trying to torch weld aluminum is then you see it and now you don't. Roger Mitchell President and Master Mechanic Fort Collins Municipal Railway From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Wed Dec 1 11:39:17 EST 1993 Article: 2852 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? Message-ID: <4ng209_@dixie.com> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 19:29:17 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <1993Nov30.004403.27993@gallant.apple.com> Lines: 81 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.misc:2527 rec.crafts.metalworking:2852 rec.woodworking:27611 Michael Lagae writes: >Hi, >I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding glass >cutting band saws. >I saw a post in rec.crafts.misc (I believe) about a year ago from >someone who seemed very pleased with a stained glass cutting band >saw. However, I!ve talked to a few glass dealers who claim that >they cut very slowly (one inch/minute) and really aren!t worth it >unless you need to make very integrate cuts which would be >impossible to do otherwise. Yes, we have a Diamond Lazer 1000 saw which is a chinese clone of the Gryphon unit. It works very well and we are quite pleased with it. It's speed is dependent on the thickness and hardness of the glass. For thin fusable glass (what I usually use it with), it cuts several inches per minute. Even regular stained glass cuts satisfactorilly fast. It is NOT as fast as scoring-and-breaking but then again, you can't score a spiral or other complex shape. My experience is most stained glass dealers disparage the products they either can't get or don't make money on. >I!ve only actually seen one such band saw. I don!t recall the >brand, but it didn!t seem all that durable, was a rather small >table top unit and was extremely expensive; around $500. The only >feature that set it apart from other band saws is that it had a >water reservoir around the lower wheel. The Gryphon saw was cloned because their price was so outrageous. Strangely enough, Gryphon's saw is now reasonably priced. We paid about $200 for our saw. I have used several other brands including the very expensive german unit and I like the Lazer the best. It is fast and deceptively rugged. Accomidations for the diamond blade are subtle but numerous and range from the tensioning system to the rubber rollers and teflon guides. >I!d like to get back into making stained glass lamps and the idea >of being able to saw quickly through glass is appealing. However, >I!m leery of purchasing a hobbyist type of machine. I!d be much >more inclined to spend that much or more for a good quality tool >that could be used for other materials as well. Sawing really isn't a substitute for pieces that can be scored and cracked. The speed of scoring is vastly superior. On the other hand, if you have a curved cut on a $50 piece of glass, it is nice not to risk a spurrious crack. >So, my questions are: >2. Does anyone have any experience with any other tools that >could be used to cut glass? Does anyone make glass cutting blades >for larger band saws or scroll saws? The pantograph-based scoring machines work well. Gryphon makes a fairly expensive scoring machine that seems to have some merit. IT has a pneumatic driven scoring wheel and a variable speed rubber drive wheel under it. The idea is to feed the glass in much as you would to a band- saw. The score is deep and accurate. I am investigating having diamond blades made for a Delta woodworking saw but I've yet to find a suitable price. The conversion requires more than just the blade. Things such as rubber rollers and frictionless guides as well as a water system. I'm experimenting with CO2 laser cutting but the work is in its earliest stage. It looks to have some possibilities. BTW, there is a stained glass mailing list, glass@dixie.com. Subscribe to glass-request@dixie.com. Put your email address on the Subject: line. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC | For a free sample magazine, send Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | a digest-size 52 cent SASE Marietta, Ga "Hotrods'n'computers" | (Domestic) to PO Box 669728 jgd@dixie.com "What could be better?" | Marietta, GA 30066 Email to me may be published at my sole discretion. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nwnexus!a2i!lps Wed Dec 1 11:39:20 EST 1993 Article: 2853 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nwnexus!a2i!lps From: lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) Subject: Re: gas welding/brazing aluminum Message-ID: Sender: news@rahul.net (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: bolero Organization: a2i network References: <2dg1qc$ktl@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Distribution: na Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 02:12:16 GMT Lines: 29 In rogerm@fc.hp.com (Roger Mitchell) writes: >You are in for some real tricky business. AIRCO makes a special flux and rod >to use with it for torch welding aluminum. I use to use it when I had the job >for a living of welding return-bend tubes in aluminum heat exchangers and it >worked quite well. One big problem is that due to the orange flare off of the >flux, you cannot see what you are doing and it must all be done by feel. The >flux melts at just a couple of degrees less than the rod, to help you tell >just how hot you have things. After the flux melts you then start applying >the rod with just enough heat being added to keep the rod flowing. The >biggest problem with trying to torch weld aluminum is then you see it and >now you don't. >Roger Mitchell >President and Master Mechanic >Fort Collins Municipal Railway There are welding glasses made that will minimize the glow from the flux. Look up the Fend-All Company of Arlington Heights, Il for a source. Ask for cobalt or didyium blue, shade #5 for conventional torch welding. Kevin Martinez lps@rahul.net -- File not found Loading something similar... GS/M -d+(-) -p+(-) c++ l+ u e+ m---(*) s++/++ n+(--) h f+ g++(-) w+ t- r++ y? GCS/O d- -p+ c+ !l u+ e+ m+ s++/ !n(---) h f+ g+ w+++ t+ r(-) y? From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!uwvax!astroatc!niemi Wed Dec 1 11:39:21 EST 1993 Article: 2854 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!uwvax!astroatc!niemi From: niemi@astroatc.uucp (Bob Niemi) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? Message-ID: <1993Nov30.191644.10035@astroatc.uucp> Date: 30 Nov 93 19:16:44 GMT References: <1993Nov30.004403.27993@gallant.apple.com> Organization: Astronautics Technology Cntr, Madison, WI Lines: 22 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.misc:2528 rec.crafts.metalworking:2854 rec.woodworking:27628 In article <1993Nov30.004403.27993@gallant.apple.com> Michael Lagae writes: >Hi, > >I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding glass >cutting band saws. > >... stained glass cutting band saw. .... >they cut very slowly (one inch/minute) .... > >Michael Lagae lagae@apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. I had occasion to use a rod saw blade, which mounts into a hacksaw frame, for cutting ceramic tiles, both wall tile and quarry tile (floor tile). It is a stiff cable, about 1/16" diameter, which is loaded with carbide granules. It cut the tile like butter, and weird shapes were easy to do. It may work as well on glass, but probably slower. I mounted the tiles in a vise padded with whatever I had handy (probably rags). Cheap, simple and effective for my application, and it wouldn't cost much (<$3.00) to try. Bob Niemi, Astronautics, Madison, WI ...uwvax!astroatc!niemi From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!terpsichore!jb Wed Dec 1 11:39:22 EST 1993 Article: 2855 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!terpsichore!jb From: jb@terpsichore.MAE.CWRU.Edu (Jim Berilla) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Date: 1 Dec 1993 06:01:56 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, USA Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2dhc0k$pt6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <1993Nov30.074025.2985@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> <2dggrl$pia@usenet.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: terpsichore.mae.cwru.edu A friend of mine has such a torch. I forget the name of the manufacturer, but the list price is about $1200. A few comments about it that I haven't seen here yet: It uses a single electrolysis chamber, with the hydrogen and oxygen collecting mixed above the water + potasium hydroxide electrolyte. The manufacturer claims that the chamber is strong enough to withstand an explosion of the gasses in the chamber. The chamber is made of about 3/8" thick stainless steel. The power supply cycles on and off to maintain pressure. The gasses are carried from the generator to the torch with a single 1/4" ID PVC tube. The tube on his is apparently the original tube, and doesn't seem to be the anti-static variety (which has a black stripe running along the side). There is no way to control the mixture. The flow is regulated by a knob on the torch handle. It is very nice to use. A dream on small work. -- Jim Berilla / jb@falstaff.MAE.cwru.edu / +1 216 368 6776 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!world!moroney Wed Dec 1 11:39:24 EST 1993 Article: 2856 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!world!moroney From: moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA References: <1993Nov30.074025.2985@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> <2dggrl$pia@usenet.rpi.edu> <2dhc0k$pt6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 08:15:29 GMT Lines: 9 I've heard of an interesting variation on an H2/O2 torch. In this torch the H2 is passed through an electric arc converting it into atomic hydrogen (H). This is burned with the O2, and the heat of combustion of atomic hydrogen is much higher than that molecular hydrogen, and the torch is rather hotter than oxyacetylene. (instead of 2H2 + O2 = 2H2O the reaction is 4H + O2 = 2H2O) -Mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!sparrow.demon.co.uk!boris Wed Dec 1 11:39:25 EST 1993 Article: 2857 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk (boris) Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!sparrow.demon.co.uk!boris Subject: Re: Engraving Silver Distribution: world References: <754333781snz@sparrow.demon.co.uk> <2ddl97$1fi@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Organization: Straightjacket Systems/London Reply-To: boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Simple NEWS 2.0 (ka9q DIS 1.24) Lines: 32 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 22:04:01 +0000 Message-ID: <754697041snz@sparrow.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <2ddl97$1fi@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@Tymnet.COM writes: >Linsey books (see the FAQ) has a reprint of a ~1900 book on engraving, mostly >on engraving text. > >Why is silver special? I've seen nothing on engraving that appears to be >metal-dependant. > **Quite right ,i just want to know about silver as thats my field. Obviously the softness makes life easier ,compared to engraving copper or steel, engraving ivory is the most tricky i believe. I have one book by Frank Britton which is a text over here but it omits quite a bit ,and i wanted to find out what graver is used to make what is called a "bright cut" this was used in the 18th century to create a decorative effect on silver ware such as spoons and teapots etc . To become accomplished at engraving is very difficult IMO so i want to read up on everything i can get hold of. thanks for the info -- +==============================================+ + /o o\ } Who taught granny to suck eggs? + + v } boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk { + + """ } of LONDON ,ENGLAND { + +=="""=========================================+ From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph Thu Dec 2 15:31:02 EST 1993 Article: 2858 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph From: ralph@astolastro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: <1993Dec1.160134.18182@nomina.lu.se> Sender: ralph@astol (Ralph Snel) Nntp-Posting-Host: nastol.astro.lu.se Organization: Lund Observatory References: <1993Nov30.074025.2985@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> <2dggrl$pia@usenet.rpi.edu> <2dhc0k$pt6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 16:01:34 GMT Lines: 16 In article , moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > I've heard of an interesting variation on an H2/O2 torch. In this torch the > H2 is passed through an electric arc converting it into atomic hydrogen (H). > This is burned with the O2, and the heat of combustion of atomic hydrogen > is much higher than that molecular hydrogen, and the torch is rather hotter > than oxyacetylene. > > (instead of 2H2 + O2 = 2H2O the reaction is 4H + O2 = 2H2O) > > -Mike Sounds almost like a plasme burner to me: take an appropriate microwave and any (inert) elemental gas like N2, zap it with the microwaves and pump it out of the chamber before the electrons and ions recombine. Gets you up in the 10000 K range. Ralph From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Thu Dec 2 15:31:03 EST 1993 Article: 2859 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 0 of 4 Message-ID: <1993Dec1.092535.1010@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Dec 93 09:25:35 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 0: Introduction to this month's FAQ Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Dec 93 09:25:36 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 20 I am about to post the latest revision to the FAQ. Let me know if this needs to get split into more parts, e.g. due to news system limitations on item size. Changes: Mason & Sullivan is back as a clock/parts supplier. Crafts Council information in part 4. Rio Grande is now River Gems and Findings Added a new topic, "What is Damascus steel?" which required re-shuffling the parts to balance the sizes. Revised the Unimat discussion, as they only appear to sell the CNC/PC type. Added a negative opinion of Enco. Keep the suggestions coming in! Jim Kirkpatrick jimkirk@uwyo.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Thu Dec 2 15:31:06 EST 1993 Article: 2860 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 1 of 4 Message-ID: <1993Dec1.092542.1011@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Dec 93 09:25:42 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 1 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Dec 93 09:25:42 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 598 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 1 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? The questions being answered in part 2: 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. The questions being answered in part 3: 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. The following is the original rec.crafts.metalworking charter, for reference. Charter ------- Charter -- REC.CRAFTS.METALWORKING The USENET newsgroup, rec.crafts.metalworking, is a newsgroup which discusses various aspects of working with metal, such as (but not limited to): machining, as on a lathe, milling machine, grinder, etc.; numerical control of such machines; welding, whether by gas, arc, mig, tig, thermite, or other methods; Metal joining, whether welding, brazing, soldering, riveting, screwing, folding, etc. (this section was added during the discussion) casting various metals by various methods; hardening/tempering various metals; blacksmithing/forging; spinning and hammer work; sheet metal work; jewelry-making; purchasing and/or reconditioning metalworking tools and machinery; interesting projects; books on metal technologies and history; Example areas of interest: knife/sword making; automotive repair; steam engine (model/scale, though full-sized discussions are welcome!); art work, such as bronze castings and sculptures; gunsmithing; toolmaking, such as for woodworking, further metalworking, etc.; While the bulk of the discussion will probably be directed towards small-scale "home" shops, industrial/production discussions are also quite welcome. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. If you have access to Bitnet and are interested in clocks/watches, there is a CLOCKS list. Send mail to LISTSERV@SUVM on Bitnet, containing the command "SUBSCRIBE CLOCKS your name". Their "charter" is: Welcome to the CLOCKS Listserv list. This is a new attempt at communicating information about clocks between those interested in ANY aspect of clocks. To quote from the header text for CLOCKS: > * Clock/Watch Repair, Collecting, and Construction > > CLOCKS is a discussion list dealing with any and all aspects of > clock and watch work. > > The list's primary goal is to discuss the collecting, > construction, and repair of both clocks and watches. Included > also are topics on the history of time keeping, wooden movements, > water clocks, antique and modern clocks, etc. Of great interest > is information about suppliers of repair and construction parts > and techniques, information, books, newsletters, national and > local associations. Another interest is the use of clock/watch > tools, such as the watchmakers lathe, bushing replacement, time > regulation, etc. > > The list welcomes the participation and contribution from anyone > interested in the subject area, whether an amateur, beginner, or > professional. I can't give you a cookbook approach on how to get to Bitnet if you aren't on it. This varies from site to site, so you should ask your system administrator "how do I get e-mail to/from Bitnet?" As one example, at our Internet site, we add ".bitnet" on the end, so for us the address would be LISTSERV@SUVM.BITNET. There is also a Usenet newsgroup rec.woodworking that may be of interest to people who read rec.crafts.metalworking. 3. What are some good books on metalworking? - How to Run a Lathe South Bend Lathe 400 W. Sample Street South Bend, IN 46623 This book is available from South Bend distributors, such as Blue Ridge, and/or Lindsay. It was originally printed in 1914 and last updated in 1966, I believe. - Machine-Tool Work, by William P Turner and Halsey F Owen. 1932 and 1945 (hence no ISBN number). Some libraries may still have a copy, though you're probably out of luck for a purchase. Moderately good text, very good diagrams and pictures, especially of huge special-purpose machines like railroad wheel grinders. Suffers a bit from age, and seems intended for large industrial shops, but a good read if you find it. - Machine Shop Theory and Practice, by Albert M Wagener and Harlan R Arthur. 1941 (hence no ISBN number). Some libraries may still have a copy, though you're probably out of luck for a purchase. Fairly good text, more specific techniques than the Turner/Owen book. Suffers a bit from age, but still a nice instructional book. - Lathe Operations, by Richard R. Kibbe. 1985, ISBN 0-471-89023-5. Adapted from materials originally prepared by the Engineering Industry Training Board of Great Britain. Also in the same series: Milling Machine Operations, and Grinding Machine Operations. A step-by-step text with about 2 photos and lots of simple but usually-clear drawings. Shows how to do most any common lathe operation (and a few uncommon ones) in as few words as possible. Check page 90 for what seems to be a man with two right hands. - The Making of Tools, by Alexander G Weygers Prentice Hall Press, 1973, ISBN 0-671-60924-6 A modern book about doing things the old way. How the artist/craftsperson can design, make, sharpen and temper tools. May be available from Centaur Forge. - Machinery's Handbook A standard reference book for machinists, available from most distributors of machines or tools. - Clockmaking & Modelmaking; tools and techniques by W.R. Smith Mr. Smith has published other books on clockmaking, but this one covers more than just clocks, and is thus of interest to more than just clock-makers. This is a collection of articles from the British Horological Journal, Timecraft, Model Engineer, and Horological Times. The articles have been updated and expanded for inclusion in this 112-page coil-bound book. For a complete review, see HSM Jan/Feb 1992, page 14. Available from Gateway Clocks (see names/addresses section), $27 post-paid within USA (overseas buyers add $5 for postage). - Elmer's Engines, by Elmer Verberg available from Modeltec Has many very nice, and fairly easy to build stationary steam engines. - Model Locomotive and Marine Boilers [Argus Press, 1988, ISBN 0-85242-923-1] by Martin Evans (well known in the Model Engineering field, at least in Great Britain) - THE MACHINIST's BEDSIDE READER Guy Lautard 2570 Rosebery Avenue West Vancouver, B.C., Canada V7V 2Z9 (Guy's books are also available from other suppliers, such as Village Press, I believe. J.K.) Contains: Working drawings and detailed instructions for making 15 useful and practical machinists tools and lathe accessories; dozens of hints, tips and tricks to help get things done faster, easier and better in your shop; a collection of 2 dozen machine shop anecdotes; 2 highly readable machinists short stories. Projects include: a sharpening jig for drill from 1/8 to #60, a swiveling base for a 2" Wilton vise, a graduated handwheel for the lathe leadscrew.........and many more THE MACHINIST"S SECOND BEDSIDE READER Similar in format to the first book; projects include: a small pantograph engraving machine, a tool maker's block, poor man's jig borer and a kerosene-burning blowtorch....... also a short story titled "The Bullseye Mixture" which details the method for barbon pack color casehardening. Other books and plans by Lautard (not a complete list): "Hey Tim, I gotta tell ya....' a mini Bedside Reader" "A Brief treatise on Oiling Machine Tools" "3.75' Diameter Ungeared Rotary Table" "Universal Sleeve Clamp" Lautard's targeted readership seems to be the home machinst. I'm sure that much of what he has to say may be "old hat" to a skilled machinist with many years experience. I confess that I am a rank amateur in machine shop practice (my only professional experience was as a part-time helper in a gunsmith shop where the machine I got to know best was the polishing wheel). The flyer I quote from is available from Lautard at the address I gave with my last posting. [reviews and typing courtesy of Michael Gordon] It has also been reported that Guy sells an index of some sort, either of all projects or all articles, in the back issues of Model Engineer. However, the index is reportedly hard to use. See the description of Model Engineer, elsewhere. - The Surface Treatment and Finishing of Aluminum and its Alloys, Edited by S. Wernick, R. Pinner, and P.G. Sheasby. Published 1987 by ASM International, Metals Park, Ohio. 2 volumes. Mentioned in sci.materials in response to a "how do I anodize aluminum" question. - Electroplating for the Amateur, by L. Warburton. Model & Allied Publications Available via Argus (see names & addresses section) Also mentioned, in rec.crafts.metalworking, regarding anodizing. - Machine Tool Practices, fourth edition, John Wiley and Sons. Covers a lot of ground and is the first-year book at DeAnza College. -------------------------------------------------------------------- The following suggested books pertain to jewelry-making, per Sherry Lem. The Complete Metalsmith Tim McCreight Davis Publications, Inc. Worcester, MA, 1991 Excellent, easy to follow techniques for beginning to intermediate levels, this is the revised edition which is much improved over the original. Contemporary Jewelry Philip Morton Holt, Rinehart & Winston NY, 1970, 1976 Interesting design philosophy, techniques. Design and Creation of Jewelry Robert vonNeumann Chilton Radnor, PA, 1961, 1972 Form Emphasis for Metalsmiths Heikki Seppa Kent State University Press Kent, OH 1978 Perhaps THE book on anticlastic raising/forming, though difficult to teach yourself from the pictures and instructions. Jewelry Concepts and Technology Oppi Untracht Doubleday & Company Garden City, NY, 1982, 1985 Most comprehensive guide on jewelry making techniques, also contains gemological data, info on setting up a workshop . Jewelry: Contemporary Design and Technique Chuck Evans Davis Publications Worcester, MA, 1983 Especially good sections on mixed metals (mokume gane, etc.). Jewelry Making and Design Augustus F. Rose and Antonio Cirino Dover Publications, Inc. NY, 1949, 1967 Decidedly English flavor, very inexpensively priced. Jewelry Making Manual Sylvia Wicks Brymorgen Press Cape Elizabeth, ME, 1986 Beautiful color photos, good technique instructions. Jewelry Manufacture and Repair Charles Jarvis Bonanza, NY, 1978 Metal Sculpture - New Forms New Techniques John Lynch The Viking Press NY, NY Basic art metal techniques. Metal Techniques for Craftsmen Oppi Untracht Doubleday & Company Garden City, NY, 1968 -------------------------------------------------------------------- How about video tapes? - New Life Video Productions P.O. Box 175 Traverse City, MI 49685 Several tapes with Rudy Kouhoupt, frequent author in HSM and other magazines. Titles such as "Fundamentals of Machine Lathe Operation," "How to Cut Spur Gears," "How to Cut Threads" and others. Price varies from tape to tape. Production qualities seem poor (based on viewing the first title), such as poor and inconsistent audio, including a radio playing in the background. But you can safely ignore this and concentrate on what Rudy is trying to show you. Seems reasonably priced for the material covered. - Baily Craftsman Supply P.O. Box 276, Dept HSM Fulton, MO 65251 One tape so far, "Greensand Casting Techniques" from David Gingery's workshop. HSM seemed to like it. - Colonial Williamsburg (sorry, no address at this moment) CW produces several tapes on blacksmithing, silversmithing, gunsmithing, and so on. They show the "old time" way of doing things, but are reported to be excellent. 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? Who makes good cars? This is almost purely a personal preference, though in general the imported machines (Grizzly, Jet, Enco) seem to rate lower than US-built machines (South Bend, Bridgeport). However, the imports are usually MUCH less expensive, offsetting some of the quality issues for home shops. It has also been reported that South Bend has been going "downhill" lately. There is some indication that Grizzly equipment is slightly better than other "Taiwanese" machines. One of the main complaints about Taiwanese machinery is the lack of replacement parts and service. Grizzly claims that they keep a supply of parts on hand for all their machines. The same factories appear to turn out Grizzly, Jet, Delta, and the "no-name" machinery. A few years ago Fine Woodworking magazine published an article on this subject. Unimats are sometimes considered "toys" rather than real machines, though they may do just what you want if you don't push them hard. The Unimat PC may be a nice small CNC lathe; any experiences? Unimat, Sherline, and Taig are "micro lathes" in that the swing over the bed is less than 5 inches, and the bed is about a foot long. Sherline and Taig are made in the US, and Unimat is made in Austria (and hence uses metric threads, e.g. in the spindle thread, which may be a pain to US buyers). Sherline and Taig both use 3/4 inch x 16 threads in the spindle and can thus interchange accessories. The Taig cannot cut threads, while the Sherline and Unimat can (with accessories). Sherline and Unimat sell a milling add-on. The Taigs come in unbundled kit form where you have to buy everything; they claim an overall accuracy of .0004 inch and have excellent parts and service, and also sell a watchmaking headstock. Taig is the cheapest at about $250 to get started, about $450 for Sherline. It appears the only Unimat now being sold is the CNC "Unimat PC", at about $750. Unimat seems to charge quite a bit more than normal for accessories. Just keep in mind that these are not as rigid or powerful as full-sized lathes. Harbor Freight sells a "precision 4x10" mini-lathe for around $700 with autofeed, change gears for most english threads at extra cost. It is actually a 7" lathe which takes standard 2MT tailstock tooling and 3/8" cutting tools, and has Electronic Variable Speed (EVS) instead of changeable belts. This is larger and sturdier than the Unimat/Sherline/Taig, and sounds similar to the 8" Grizzly except for the EVS. What can you do if you have little money? Aside from looking at used equipment, you can actually build a lathe and other machine tools. Dave Gingery wrote an excellent series of books on building your own machine tools with just hand tools. While it's a lot of work, you can learn a lot. First you make an aluminum charcoal foundry, then a lathe, and finish up with a dividing head (five or six books later). Other authors have published detailed plans for making lathes. See the publisher's catalogs from Lindsay, Cole's, Power Model, Tee, and Argus. 5. Where do I buy a machine? Check out the Yellow Pages, the ads in the magazines, and catalogs from the "names and addresses" section elsewhere in this FAQ. For example: Blue Ridge Machinery and Tools, Inc Alley Supply Company Enco Grizzly 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? - The Home Shop Machinist (HSM), "dedicated to precision metalworking" Published 6/year by Village Press (see addresses section), $24.50/year. Note that many back issues are not available, though most of the projects are available in the "Projects" book series. Mostly techniques, no steam, some gasoline engine projects, many tooling projects. Probably the best of the US magazines. Some projects will span several issues. - Projects In Metal (PIM). Published 6 times per year by Village Press, $19. Only projects, no advertisements! Each project is complete in one issue. A "weak sister" to HSM, apparently started in part to handle overflow projects from HSM. Earlier back-issues have been combined into a new book series called "Metalworking". - Live Steam Magazine. Published 6 times per year by Village Press, $31. Mostly trains, some techniques, some stationary engines, lots of history and club information. Usually each issue has one stationary engine and two locomotive construction projects in various stages. - Model Engineer's Workshop Published bimonthly by Argus Described as the British version of HSM, and similar to the tool-oriented writing in Model Engineer. U.S. subscription rate is $38. More "packed" than HSM, and features the uniquely English way of doing machining (e.g., spending hours to make a cutter to make the cutter for gear cutting, when many of us in the US would just order the gear cutter and be done with it). - Modeltec. "Machinist Projects of Beauty and Usefulness" Published by George R. Broad, 12 per year. P.O. Box 1226 St. Cloud, MN 56302 Phone: (612) 654-0815 $31 per year ($38 in U.S. funds if outside U.S) Similar to Live Steam but not restricted to trains. Lots of projects for railroad cars. - Strictly IC (IC stands for Internal Combustion) Published 6 times per year $24.25 (+$2.00 US foreign, WA residents add $2.00 sales tax) Robert A. Washburn, editor 24920 43rd Avenue S. Kent, WA 98032 Concentrates on construction of miniature internal combustion engines, and has a few classified ads, usually for engine castings. - Gas Engine Magazine P.O. Box 328 Lancaster, PA 17603 (717) 392-0733, (717) 392-1341 (FAX) - Model Engineer Published biweekly, about $80/year Argus Specialist Publications Ltd. The king of model machining magazines it has been around for about 100 years. Varied construction articles, lots on trains. Some projects can take years to complete! Extensive back-issues are available from Tee (q.v.), and we presume from Argus since they publish it in the first place! An index to back issues is available from: G.V. Wilkinson 129 Springside Road Hillcrest 3610 South Africa The index used to cost 30 pounds sterling, and is reportedly much better than Guy Lautard's. - Engineering in Miniature Published monthly, about $30/year. Tee Publishing Similar to Model Engineer, more steam traction engines. Has an extensive collection of back issues of this and other model magazines. - Clockmaker Published 6 times per year, around $30/year Tee Publishing Discusses how to build mechanical clocks, with many projects spanning several issues. Big names like John Wilding write in this magazine. Classified ads for clockmaking supplies. - Workshop Masters Published by Tee, ceased regular publication in 1991. - Horn & Whistle Richard Weisenberher 2655 North Friendship, Lot #8 Paducah, Kentucky 42001 $18 per year. Low budget, in that they publish anything people send in. Some technology, some nostalgia, lots of stuff on meets where they get together and have "steam blasts." - Traction Engine Magazine - The Anvil's Ring This is the publication of ABANA (see below, associations) published 6 times a year; cost is $24 per year, or you get it as part of the $35 dues for joining ABANA. - Anvil Published monthly, about $30 per year See Centaur Forge, elsewhere. - American Craft (bi-monthly) (jewelry) published by the American Craft Council 40 West 53rd St. New York, NY 10019 (212)956-3535 Current work in metal, clay, glass, wood, textiles, mixed media; featured artists, calendar of events. - Metalsmith (quarterly) (jewelry) published by Society of North American Goldsmiths (SNAG) 5009 Londonderry Drive Tampa, FL 33647 (813)977-5326, (813)977-8462 fax Jewelry, techniques, featured artists, current exhibits - Ornament (quarterly) P.O. Box 2349 San Marcos, CA 92079 Jewelry (metal and beads) and textile/fiber art 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? This depends on several factors, mostly where you live. Good places to check out include community colleges (universities sometimes will have classes in metalworking, but perhaps only for already-enrolled students or faculty/staff). Sometimes a high school will offer night or weekend classes to the public, funding permitting. Also look for vocational/technical schools, and possibly even art schools since some metal sculpturing requires a firm background in welding. In a few cases there may be specialized schools in your area, so check your yellow pages or ask around. Some examples: John C. Campbell Folk School in Brasstown NC (800) 562-2440, Craft Center in Ripley WV. Some schools also offer room and board and/or campground hookups. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Thu Dec 2 15:31:08 EST 1993 Article: 2861 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 2 of 4 Message-ID: <1993Dec1.092554.1012@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Dec 93 09:25:54 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 2 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Dec 93 09:25:54 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 557 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 2 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12. How do I wire up this strange motor? (with thanks to Bill Brown) The following describes how to deal with an AC/DC "universal" motor that has 4 unmarked wires coming out. Be sure you don't have some other motor, such as a 3-phase unit. Other motors are covered in an FAQ for the newsgroup rec.woodworking. The FAQ postings (six of them) for rec.woodworking are normally posted around the first of each month, and possibly also posted to the newsgroup news.answers. I can't say how long *your* news system will choose to keep these around! Look for "Frequently Asked Questions about Electric Motors." Also, the "Electrical Wiring FAQ" may be of interest. The universal motor is called that because it can run on AC or DC. Older units might have been designed this way because very early power distribution had not settled on AC or DC, or with 50 or 60 cycles. Thus, such a motor could be used universally, in all locations provided the voltage was within reason. This still may be a concern with some on-site jobs feeding power tools from DC sources such as portable welding rigs. Another nice thing about these motors is that they are easily reversible. They are also easily speed-controlled, such as in hand drills, whereas induction motors prefer to run at or near synchronous speed. The first task is to determine which two wires go to the armature, and which go to the field winding. If you can't tell by examining where the wires go (or the nameplate), get an ohmmeter and connect it to the wires until you find two that show some continuity. Rotate the shaft slowly by hand and note if the resistance changes as you turn it. If it does, you probably have the armature, and the fluctuations are due to the brushes making and breaking contact with the commutator. The other winding (field coil) should show a steady resistance. Presuming you want the ability to reverse the motor, find a switch that can handle the rated current, in the double-pole-double-throw configuration with a center-off position. The suggested hook-up is (as usual, a bad ASCII graphic): +-------------------+ 1 | | 2 ----------FIELD-------o<--O o A 0 white \ / R \ / M V X A O / \ T L black / \ U T ----------------------o<--O o E S | | +-------------------+ NOTE: no connection at "X"; Include a green-wire frame ground if at all possible Avoid reversing the motor while it is moving in the "other" direction as this could severely stress the switch and motor (particularly the brushes). Move the switch to the center (off) position, and continue on to the other direction after the motor has stopped. Please, always be careful when dealing with electricity. If you don't feel comfortable and safe doing such a hook-up, find someone who can do it for you, or at least who can check what you're doing. 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? The following suggestions were offered by Stu Friedberg -- Get the catalogs and know what you want. There are often many sizes, models, and sources of an "X", so you need to know which particular X when you write and especially when you call to place an order. Even the smallest industrial supply houses deal in tens of thousands of items, which means even very knowledgeable order-takers can't always give you the information you need over the phone. Reserve queries about details for stuff that you couldn't figure out for yourself. Many of the order takers are very helpful and knowledgeable. At *SOME* sources the order takers can actually go look in the stock bins, take a micrometer to measure a shaft diameter, etc. I have had people at three different companies do something like this for me. However, some companies have computerized centralized order taking at a location completely separate from their stocking locations, so don't *assume* people can tell you anything that's not written in the catalog. I've had one company tell me to just order a set of change gears and return them if I couldn't use them. This wasn't crazy, the order taker simply had no relevant information available. Get the catalogs and shop around. Very often there are *big* differences in price between identical items, and even more often one source will have a unique or slightly different item at an excellent price compared to the "standard" item. There are lots of reasons for this. I have seen 2 to 1 price ratios on things like shim stock (from the same manufacturer) and "can't twist" clamps (from different manufactures but of equal quality). Occasionally, you will find 10 to 1 price ratios on things like boxes of hose clamps. Great deals if you look around. If you can, examine a tool at a local store (where the prices may be higher) to see what the quality is like, before placing the order by mail or telephone. You can also learn a great deal by perusing the catalogs, both about tools in general, and about specific details of specific tools. There's seldom enough room in a catalog to print all the manufacturer's data, but different sources will select different stuff to print. I have many times used one company's catalog to select the precise thing I wanted, then bought it from another company because the price was better. Most suppliers ship quickly if they have a credit card authorization. If they don't ship within two working days on a routine basis, shop somewhere else in the future. One full working day is quite common. I have had only one bad incident in the 4 or 5 years I've been buying industrial stuff by telephone, and came through with no losses. A supply company (which entered bankruptcy proceedings just a little while ago, by the way) charged my credit card for the full amount of my order, didn't ship for a month, and was completely clueless as to when they would ship my order. That is intolerable, and protection against abuse like that is one good reason to use a credit card rather than sending a check. You don't need to sue to get your money back if the merchant doesn't come through. (If it's not obvious, I got my money back and started to throw out that company's catalogs as they arrived.) Some industrial suppliers don't do back orders because it slows things down. The stock pickers send what's in stock and mark out of stock items on the invoice. This may be a little different from retail mail order sources you've dealt with in the past. Contact them about what's in stock and when it's expected to be available. Be prepared to return an item. Having to return an item because it was misshipped, defective, or of unsatisfactory quality is *NOT* an indictment of the supplier. If you do enough shopping for industrial supplies, you will find that you have to do a partial return maybe 1 time in 5. Don't get mad; don't get upset. It's routine. Industrial supply and consumer retail have different expectations about quality control. When you return an item, follow instructions. Many, but not all, suppliers require you to contact them for a "return authorization" number, which you must write on the outside of the package. You should include a copy of the invoice in the package. This is *NOT* an opportunity for the supplier to screw you over. This is a routine matter, and most of them just ask you to note on the invoice what was wrong and if you want credit, a refund, an exchange for something else, or whatever. 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? This is actually a tricky subject, and beyond the scope of this FAQ. However, an excellent book on sharpening knives and similar tools is: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranitch. 1985 by Warner Books, ISBN 0-446-38002-4, $12.50 This book can sometimes be found in the larger knife stores, such as frequently found in USA malls (e.g. Cutlery World). It is a bit biased in that John also sells sharpening equipment, but the techniques are fundamental and can be used with competitor's equipment such as Lansky's. Another source for the book is Knife World Books, (800) 828-7751 Ext 71. Sharpening drill bits has never seemed easy. If you have lots of money, Darex makes drill and mill sharpeners, and Glendo's Accu- Finish line addresses simpler cutting bits (and they even re-sell some Darex tools in conjunction with their grinders). Black and Decker reportedly make a decent drill sharpener (1/8" to 1/2") for around $250. Some of the magazines will print articles from time to time on sharpening, and/or building sharpening equipment. 15. The following text on safety was donated by Gary Preckshot: The forces involved in metalworking machinery are far higher than most people expect. You can either be struck by shrapnel or pulled into a machine by being caught by a moving part. There are several rules that reduce these hazards: a) Don't wear loose clothes, ties, unsecured braids, or jewelry. b) Turn off machines and *WAIT* for rundown before approaching the working area. You'll spend a lot more time in an ER than you'll ever save by jumping in right away. c) Don't snap chips using a shop towel. Use a brush or air. d) Don't mess with long chips curling off a turning. If you get build up, stop the machine and remove the chips wearing leather gloves and using pliers. e) Keep power transmission belts of any kind isolated and guarded. Flat leather belts are especially hazardous because they tend to be unguarded on crowned cone pulleys. If in doubt, add more clamps. If in doubt, chuck more deeply or use a collet. A turning that comes adrift can damage both the lathe and you. A workpiece that shifts can damage both the mill and you. Stuff gets hot when cut. Let it cool before picking it up. Metal cutting generally leaves a sharp burr. Break the edges with a file or a de-burring tool before you release the work for general handling. Don't let kids, wives, husbands, girlfriends, or boyfriends close to metalworking operations without training or close supervision. Chips are extremely sharp. Long, curled chips from lathe turnings are especially dangerous because kids, wives, husbands, girlfriends, or boyfriends see only how pretty they are. You can get a very deep cut by handling such chips with your hands. Have a system for removing and storing chips. Use it regularly. Use eye protection - ALWAYS. Beware of fascination. Metal cutting tools flash and glint as they spin. An unwary person may reach toward the pretty, shiny tool. This is no joke. It happens. Then you take a trip to the local ER. Don't watch welding without adequate dark glass filters. You can get a tan in 2 minutes and a burn in five on any exposed skin close to arc welding. It doesn't hurt for about 3 hours, but then it hurts for days. Cover up. Don't play with air. Not only can it inject chips (by blowing them) into your body, but it can inject oily air as well. Sometimes right through the skin. Air is no joke. In general, no horseplay in the shop. Banish anybody who can't understand this simple rule. This is one place where absolute dictatorship is better than democracy. Take your time. You'll save on rework time, machine repair, and medical costs. 16. How do I drill round holes? In May 1993 the following question was posted. This brought a lot of useful suggestions for a problem often seen ... Subject: I can't drill round holes I am trying to drill 1/4" holes in 3/32" mild steel with a H/S twist bit in a 12" Delta bench press. The holes are not round. They tend towards the triangular. The piece I am drilling has a 1 1/4" square cross section. The distortion is worst in the exit hole through the bottom of the member. What is going on? Is there anything I can do to correct the problem? Morgan Hall gave the following shot as to how a simple twist drill manages to create a non-circular hole: Hint -- look at the rotor and housing of a Mazda rotary engine You can model the working end of a drill bit as a single straight line of finite length. If you fix one end and try to rotate it, the opposite end of the line sweeps out an arc. (the drill flexes) After about 1/3 revolution, the stuck end breaks free and sweeps out another arc while the formerly free end sticks. With alternate ends sticking, then breaking free, the arcs will form a kind of polygon with arcs of radius equal to the drill's diameter. After the first cuts, the "corners" of the polygon tend to stop the sweeping cut for each drill flute. The most common I've seen is the triangular hole, but other polygons are definitely possible. I suspect that this occurrence is related to some sort of resonance in the drilling setup. The suggestions that followed may be useful to anyone trying to drill holes. Some of them may qualify as 'obvious' but they're still worth bearing in mind... * Ensure the drill is sharp. * Make sure the work is firmly clamped * Don't try and run the bit too fast for the drill size and work material. * Don't force the feed rate; as with *any* cutting process, let the cutter do the cutting. * Keep as much of the drill in the chuck as possible. The more flexibility there is in the drill, the more likely you are to have problems. * When drilling thin material, it is often useful to provide some form of backing clamped to the work. This has the added advantage of keeping the burrs to a minimum. * The drill tip may need to be ground to a different angle, depending on the material being worked. * An undersize pilot hole is often a good idea. If you are drilling using a mark made with a centre punch and the tip of the drill is larger than the mark, you are unlikely to get accurate placement. * Don't forget to use a cutting lubricant * The quality of the hole is only going to be as good as the machine you are using will allow. If the drill spindle is sloppy, there may be nothing you can do about it. As a final comment, if you really want a round, accurately sized hole, you are unlikely to get it with a twist drill. Drill undersize and use a reamer if it's important. 17. What's TIG and MIG? TIG - Tungsten Inert Gas A small torch with a tungsten electrode is used to make the arc inside an envelope of an inert gas, usually argon or some argon mixture. A filler rod is manually introduced to complete the weld. The resulting weld is very pretty and usually requires no further finish. It is used mostly for welding sheets of mild steel, stainless steel or aluminum. The better machines have a foot control and a high frequency arc starter. Any sizable stick welder can be retro-fitted to do TIG welding, but without the foot control. MIG - Metal Inert Gas MIG and wire feed are the same thing. In this process, a consumable wire electrode is fed from a spool to the torch where the weld occurs inside an envelop of pure carbon dioxide, pure argon or a mixture of both. The weld continues as long as the operator has the trigger depressed and there is something to weld. This process is very fast, easy to learn and results in fairly good looking (better with argon) and strong welds. Most production welding of mild steel is now done with MIG welding. There is no slag to chip, but there is a slight thin coating of a glassy material that probably should be wire brushed off before painting. MIG welding can be used for thin or thick materials and is commonly used on mild steel, stainless and aluminum. Some common features of MIG machines are spot welding and stitch welding of sheet metal. There is a special wire called flux core that can be used in a MIG welder without the shielding gas. This process leaves a slag coating that must be chipped off. For most people on this group there isn't much use for flux core, as it was developed to reduce cost for large- scale welding where the cost of Argon starts piling up. There are fairly cheap 120 volt MIG welders that will only weld thin sheet metal. A more practical 240 volt machine that will weld up to about .25 inch is about $1500-$2000 new, $800-$1200 used. The machine I have will do MIG welding and stick welding, but most are MIG only. A machine that will weld .25 inch in a single pass will still weld thicker materials with multiple passes. 18. MIG welding technique. (The following was submitted by James Swonger on May 4, 1993) The quality of a MIG weld is controlled by gas flow, the qualities of that gas, the "heat" and feed rate settings. While getting a quality weld is less dependent on "touch" than gas or arc welding, it does depend on the right combination of the settable machine parameters. There are three modes of material transfer in a wire feed machine. One is "blob mode", where the wire sticks, then melts locally, then breaks. This occurs at the lower end of the heat/wire feed range. I say heat/feed rate as a ratio, because this pretty much determines which deposition mode you will see. Blob mode welds are the lowest penetration and lowest transferre heat, because there's almost no real arc action, just mostly resistive heating of the wire and contact point. The second mode as you move up the range is a soft arc with the metal being pushed through it. You'll recognize this mode when it happens; there's no more "wire push", the sound changes from a random snapping to a more uniform sizzle and everything just gets smooth. This is what I consider the ideal mode. The arc is stable but most of its energy is transferred into melting the fed wire and a localized area of the workpiece. In this mode I see about 1/4" of heat affected zone around the weld (automotive sheet metal thickness), and by proper setting I can get perfect penetration which I define to be some backside protrusion but no sag or burn-through. The handpiece ("gun") in this mode may have a buzzing feel to it but none of the bucking you get in blob mode. The third mode is when heat is much higher than the wire feed rate needs. This mode is akin to traditional arc welding, except with a fed wire. The arc energy now is biased more into the workpiece, with attendant heating and penetration. The wire still adds filler but there is more tendency to undercut, eat back and blow through especially on thin pieces. In this high heat/feed mode the buzzing/sizzling sound is replaced by a more purely electrical arc sound (whispering/crackling). This mode is desirable when welding pieces much thicker than the wire, especially when you haven't taken the bother of grinding proper chamfers and need to get penetration. Gas flow provides an important cooling effect. This is one reason why flux cored wire is harder to use on sheet metal; there's no place for the weld heat to go except the workpiece. Argon, A75 and CO2 have different welding characteristics. Argon will make the weld "sit up" higher, CO2 gives the most penetration and A75 is in the middle somewhere. Only Argon is suitable for aluminum; A75 is sort of marginal for stainless (leaves some carbon) but pretty ideal for general mild steel use. An adjustable regulator provides more latitude in balancing arc heat/feed and cooling. A high flow of gas can reduce warpage while allowing faster material transfer. I have a cheap preset flow regulator which is a compromise setting, compromise price type deal. To minimize panel warpage you must apply some technique as well. The MIG machine does not eliminate the need for skill; it just lets you apply your attention to more important things and lets you slide on some of the basics. Warping results from too much differential heating and expansion in the workpiece. By understanding the material and equipment you can keep this from being a problem. Duty cycle is one simple way of further reducing overall heat input. By welding in short, spaced beads you can join panels without overheating any large areas. First the piece should be "tacked" every few inches, with bead lengths of 1/2" or so. Make several passes after that, filling in the gaps bit by bit and not working any one region for long. The workpiece's thermal spreading will cool the small HAZ (*) pretty quickly if the total heat deposited remains small. A spot cools much more rapidly than a line. The edge of a thin metal piece presents a special case, a "boundary condition" which behaves differently than the bulk. With half the heat dissipation ability of the bulk, the edge will tend to burn back, distort and so on. This can be addressed by reducing heat (although this may force you into running blob mode), by different choice of metal overlap configuration and by carefully running the arc. A true butt joint in thin material is difficult to make. A -perfect- butting is hard to do on formed sheet metal, and any gaps will tend to enlarge in the welding process. For this reason a lapped weld is often preferred. A panel can be flanged to let the two pieces overlap but keep the final surface flush. The flange provides a backup as well in case of erosion of the edge on the top piece. =========\\W++++++++++++ \\==== A second sort of joint is a butted-V which protects the edges as the weld hits the sidewalls without necessarily reaching the bottom of the groove. --------\WW+++++++++ \+ Places like Eastwood sell specialty tools for making both types of flanges on sheet metal. Of course, you need to be careful not to cause deformation from the flanging process itself. I have made my own flanging tool for the first form out of an extra pair of Channel-Loks with extra jaw material brazed in and ground to shape. The Eastwood tool is Vise-Grip based and looks like it's a bit better as far as force required to make the flange due to the compound action. I think a pair of beat up sheet metal shears might be a better basis for making a new one. (*) HAZ = Heat Affected Zone; the area where you see thermally-induced material changes in the workpiece. This is basically the extent of any visible surface discoloration when using the MIG, although if you run the gas after stopping the arc you may not even be able to see anything because oxygen is excluded. If you remove the gas and arc together you will get the normal thin oxidation layer like you see when grinding or heating to temper. The outside of the blue oxide region is the periphery of the HAZ, although the material effects there are probably negligible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following was submitted by mrehmus@cup.portal.com Use of MIG for body work. A bad idea fostered on us amateurs by our ignorance. If you look at the available wire for MIG, you don't find anything much softer than S60 or higher wire. In general, the higher the yield strength of metal, the harder it is to work. (Try forming tool-steel as a test). The weld bead left by a MIG is very hard relative to the body sheet metal and is almost impossible to work. It also cracks very easily even if one trys to anneal the metal in the weld. In restoring a 1967 Mercury Cougar I finally had to teach myself hammer welding using a welding torch. The results were much better!! 1. The seam is the same thickness as the parent sheet metal. 2. The seam is as soft or softer than the parent sheet metal. 3. The seam and the surrounding sheet metal are easily worked to remove any defects caused by the welding process. Should anyone want to equal the hammer welding process but with an electric source of heat, TIG is the only way to go. The filler metal selection is much, much wider and the TIG can be run way down to 10 amps or so which would probably let you weld aluminum foil if you wished. Oh yea, in the professional welder's world, the common opinion is that a TIG weld is superior to MIG. So why do the professional body shops like the MIG? It is necessary for the welding of high-strength steel that is commonly used in the structural parts of the modern automobile. Not, I repeat, NOT for the external sheet metal. The external sheet metal (the part we can see) is still mild steel because of the expense and difficulty of making sheet metal forming dies that would last and give good results with high-strength steel. Remember that body shops replace whole panels, they rarely "patch" a panel. The high-quality restoration shops use TIG or (usually) a torch and hammer welding. GOOD video tapes to know about: "Learning MIG Welding" by SIP "Hammerwelding Techniques" by Car Guy Videotapes "Patch Panel Installation" by Car Guy Videotapes I have watched these tapes many times, always learning more at every session. The tape on MIG welding uses a good visual filter technique to show every type of weld puddle. After viewing the tape, my MIG welding has been much better. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Thu Dec 2 15:31:11 EST 1993 Article: 2862 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 3 of 4 Message-ID: <1993Dec1.092602.1013@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Dec 93 09:26:02 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 3 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Dec 93 09:26:03 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 769 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 3 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19. We frequently see "What should I buy" questions; one example is "What MIG welder should I buy?" There is no definite answer, and the prospective buyer should read the other entries in this FAQ regarding welding. What follows is an example of such a question and the answers received (June, 1993). We claim no responsibility for correctness or liability for your money! Keith King asked: I'm looking at the purchase of a MIG welder for auto body repair and other light welding jobs around the homestead and I don't have much background on this type of equipment. The models I'm looking at are the Lincoln SP-100 and the Miller 130. Both models are 110v portables. The Miller has a higher rating but I'm not sure if that's critical for my applications. The Lincoln has the advantage of having infinitely variable power output vs. stepped output for the Miller and the salesman said the gun on the Lincoln was a "Tweako?" whatever that means. Both units are similarly priced/warranted etc. Century has a bunch of lower priced, shorter warranty, cheaper looking, MIG welders. Does anyone have any experience/opinions on these welders or other MIGs to help me make a more informed purchase. Jim Narem answered/asked: I'm also interested in MIG welders for sheet metal and roll bar work. I've used the Italian made SIP 110V MIG unit. It works; it was worth $100 (purchased at some close-out sale) but not the $350 that places want retail. It's tough to get parts; even the tips have to be ordered. The wire feed mechanism sucks. I've seen some new Lincoln's on the market; both are wire feed welders with optional MIG kits as opposed to the SP-100 and SP-130 which are purpose build MIG units. Lincoln Weld-Pak 100, 88 amp, 18V @ 20% duty, 110V, $354 w/MIG kit. Lincoln Weld-Pak 125, 130 amp, 20v @ 30% duty, 220V, $556 w/MIG kit. (Prices are Connecticut Home Depot, tax bandit not included) The MIG kits are about $80 each, they have a gas flow regulator, solenoid and (I think) a different gun. Does anyone have any experience with these welders? They seem cost effective compared to the SP-100 and SP-130 but I'm nervous since Lincoln seems to be releasing some home/consumer grade equipment (like their new AC arc welder with the cheezy variable amperage control). There are also several Century MIG units commonly available at large home improvement shops (yup, WELD on that new addition). I've used their AC/DC arc welder and was impressed with its cost/performance. Has anyone used any of the Century MIGs? Ken Clarke answered: I took an evening welding class at a technical high school (10 weeks) and got to try various types of welding (stick, MIG, TIG, and oxy/acetylene. Also got some good tips on safety, and on how to by a MIG welder. The instructor spoke of the "big three" in the welding business (Miller, Lincoln, and Hobart). He was a confirmed "Miller" man, but we used Lincoln (and Airco) welders in the tech. school. I now think that it makes sense to buy whatever you decide to buy at your favorite welding supply store. The guys there have lots of good advice and if you go with one of the big three, you will not have any problem getting parts and consumables for your welder. I looked around for a while and compared the 110v portable welders by Lincoln and Miller and Hobart. My favorite welding supply house was having a "package deal" that included the Hobart Handler 120. Included in the package was the welder, a 2 lb. spool of .024 wire, a Jackson welders mask with the 4x5 face plate (get a number 10 shade), a *good* pair of welders gloves, a 55 cu. ft. tank of shielding gas (C25 which is 25 percent CO2 and 75 percent Argon), a dual-gauge regulator and connecting hose. This was about 1.5 years ago and I believe I paid $625 for the package. The Hobart has been great. It works fine on auto body panels and I have also done work on exhaust systems, mailbox posts, minibike mufflers, lawnmower parts, and am finishing up a trailer axle for a friend this weekend. So, I guess I'm advocating the Hobart, but if you can get a good deal on the Miller or the Lincoln, those would probably be fine, too. A few of the features on the Hobart that I liked were: 1. A "purge" feature, that allows you to set the flow rate on the shielding gas without spooling out wire. 2. The wire feed mechanism that lets you set the tension on the drive wheel but also lets you change wire spools without moving the setting. 3. The ergonomics of the unit, the way the wire spool goes in, the way the lid hinges down (not up like the others). 4. Five year warranty on power diodes and SCRs, three years on major components and one year on parts and labor. I would stay away from the Century welder. I don't think it has the quality of the "big three". I think you would have trouble getting parts, probably would have to order them. All parts for the big three can be had at local welding supply houses, in-stock. Also, the "Tweeko" comment is referring to the gun end of the welder. I hear that it's supposed to be a very common industry-standard type of part. Parts for the Tweeko handle/gun should be available at any welding supply house. Jim Swonger answered: "Tweako" is actually Tweco, a manufacturer of MIG and TIG handpieces and such. What this means is that parts are pretty readily available; they're everywhere. For sheet metal welding you'll run nowhere near the maximum heat setting on any machine. On my 160 I'm down on "2" for heat. The higher current machines of some of the cheaper brands need to be looked at carefully; some of them have -very- low duty cycles, leading me to believe that the critical parts are not much, if any, better than the cheaper models. The "purge" feature is good to have; however if you do not find a machine with it you can add it pretty simply. An auxiliary control switch for the solenoid valve is all it takes, in parallel with the relay that runs off the gun trigger. For serious sheet metal work spot and stitch modes are very nice amenities, allowing you to tack up a large piece with spaced short beads, minimizing distortion and allowing a fast, even hand motion. You can get by without it, but if it comes free or cheap... Quite a while later (26-Sep-1993), mrehmus@cup.portal.com wrote -- I've owned a Century 90 amp MIG welder for 4 or 5 years now. Never a problem with the unit and I've put three large reels of 0.024" wire through it. The one time I thought I had a problem the people at Century were very helpful. Century may not be one of the "big three" but they have been around for a very long time (mainly they make many of the professional battery chargers sold in this country, so I'm told). ------------ Other comments that have come up from various sources, especially Ken Clarke: Arc welders are often rated for a particular duty cycle, such as 30%. This means you can weld for about 3 minutes at full power, then you have to let the welder cool off for 7 minutes. The cheap units are typically low duty cycle, where the professional units have a high duty cycle. Also, units are often rated at a certain lower amperage where they can safely be operated at a higher percentage; for example, a 200 amp unit might be rated at 50 amps @ 100%, 100 amps at @ 60%, and 200 amps at 30%. Look for some sort of automatic cutoff to protect your investment in case you get carried away. DC systems are nicer than AC systems, especially if you can reverse polarity. AC systems splatter a bit more. DC doesn't as much, and makes a nicer weld as a result. Reversing polarity apparently can direct heat away from, or to, the workpiece; directing it away from a sheet metal weld can reduce warpage. Inverter models run off DC, or rectified line current. Their portability is the main selling point, for field welding where 220V isn't available. For the home or small shop, they are probably overkill. Large spools of wire, or other welding supplies, may corrode before they get used up in a hobby environment. Dry storage is important to preserve them. 20. Books on welding. Courtesy of kenm@daffy.cac.washington.edu Here's a source of good and inexpensive welding books. A catalog is available from: Lincoln Arc Welding Foundation PO Box 17035 Cleveland, OH 44117 They list a couple of dozen titles. Here are nutshell reviews of the ones I've seen: Metals and How to Weld Them, 400 pg, $5.00 A great book on the metallurgy of welding. It's not a how-to-weld book, but instead answered the Why? type questions I've had for years. Principles of Industrial Welding, 384 pg, $6.50 Your run-of-the-mill textbook. Design of Weldments, 464 pg, $7.00 A text on the design of welded machinery etc. There is a different book on welded structures. Well worth it it you are designing your own projects. New Lessons in Arc Welding, 528 pg, $5.00 Hard to describe - kind of a lab manual for a welding tips. Certainly worth the $5. Arc Welded Projects Vol 2, 272 pg, $5.00 Arc Welded Projects Vol 3, 170 pg, $4.50 Full of short (couple of page) descriptions of all kinds of rather ambitious projects - a tractor snowblower, log splitter, chariot, sailboat, woodstove, .... These are good books at any price, and great books at these prices. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. There sometimes seems a fine line between soldering (several types, at that), brazing, and welding. Here we try to shed some light on soldering and brazing. The following was contributed by Tim Kirby around 3/3/93 when the newsgroup was discussing the "true meaning" of silver soldering and the distinction between hard and soft solder. : Can anyone remember the "official" difference between : Hard & Soft solders ? While browsing for something else entirely, I found my copy of 'Model Locomotive and Marine Boilers' [Argus Press, 1988, ISBN 0-85242-923-1] by Martin Evans (well known in the Model Engineering field, at least in the UK) from which I have gratuitously (and without prejudice) stolen the following extract for your contemplation. As an aside, this is a useful book for those interested in designing and building boilers. Chapter 3, page 55: Silver Soldering and Brazing Soldering and brazing are processes which involve the joining of metals by the addition of molten filler metal of substantially different composition, at temperatures well below their melting point. An important difference between silver-soldering and brazing or welding is that the brazing alloy or filler material must be drawn by capillary forces right through the mating joint surfaces, and not merely deposited at the edges. Soft Solders are generally accepted as including the alloys of low melting point up to about 400 deg. C. They are usually based on Tin or Lead with small additions of antimony and sometimes silver. Hard solders, or silver-solders, are those alloys suitable for soldering which have melting points from 400 deg. C. up to about 800 deg. C. (see BSI 1845/1964) [for those who don't understand that reference, BSI is the British Standards Institute, similar in function to (for example) ANSI. BSI 1845 probably details this stuff in excruciating detail ;-) ... Tim.] Brazing alloys are alloys suitable for brazing (sic) which have melting points from about 800 deg. C. up to about 1000 deg. C. It should however be understood that there is no definite line of demarcation between silver-solders and brazing alloys. The former always contain a proportion of silver, while the brazing alloys generally contain copper, zinc and sometimes tin. Brazing alloys containing copper and phosphorus are also available but these are not recommended for boiler work. 22. What are bolt grades? We frequently see questions regarding bolt grades, so here's a partial list. Please note that just because a bolt is grade 2 does not mean it will break easily. Grading only refers to the minimum strength, not the maximum. Thus, if a machine uses a soft bolt as a safety shear pin, and you happen to replace it with a grade 2 bolt that was actually manufactured to grade 8 specs (but was marked down because too many of the bolts in the lot failed, so the whole lot was marked down) you could create some serious problems. Replace safety-related items with proper stuff! Also beware of improperly-marked forgeries. If your application is critical, test some samples or get certified hardware (not that readers of rec.crafts.metalworking are likely to be building interstate bridges or spacecraft, but it's worth saying). John M. Peterson kindly typed this in on July 20, 1993: Taken from Machinery's Handbook 23 , page 1286. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM and SAE Grade Markings for Steel Bolts and Screws ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Grade Marking Spec. Material ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- SAE - Grade 1 Low or Medium Carbon Steel No ASTM - A 307 Low Carbon Steel Mark SAE - Grade 2 Low or Medium Carbon Steel ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 5 Medium Carbon Steel Quenched and Tempered ASTM - A 409 / \ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 5.2 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ASTM - A 325 Medium Carbon Steel Type 1 Quenched and Tempered A 325 Radial dashes optional / \ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ASTM - A 325 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Type 2 Quenched and Tempered A 325 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 325 Atmospheric Corrosion (Weathering) Type 3 Steel, Quenched and Tempered A 325 ----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 354 Alloy Steel, Grade BC Quenched and Tempered BC ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 7 Medium Carbon Alloy Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered, Roll Threaded After Heat / \ Treatment ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 8 Medium Carbon Alloy Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered ASTM - A 354 Alloy Steel, / \ Grade BD Quenched and Tempered | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \/ SAE - Grade 8.2 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered \ / ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 490 Alloy Steel, Type 1 Quenched and Tempered A 490 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 490 Atmospheric Corrosion (Weathering) Type 3 Steel, Quenched and Tempered A 490 ----- 23. What is XYZ made of? Metals 1. What is Brass made of? Brass is a combination of copper and zinc, in approximately the ratio of 2/3 to 1/3, respectively. Sometimes lead (about 3%) is added to improve machinability. 2. What is Bronze made of? Bronze is usually made of copper and tin. However bronze describes any bronze colored alloy even if it doesn't have any tin. Various bronze alloys include silicon, manganese or phosphorus. Mostly bronze is used for bearings. 3. Steels Steel is a refined iron where the impurities carbon, silicon, sulphur and phosphorus are removed and then the iron is combined with carbon and/or chromium and/or nickel. Various other metals may be added to create a nearly infinite variety of steel and steel alloys. A few common steels are discussed below. a. What is CRS? Cold Rolled Steel. b. What is HRS? Hot Rolled Steel. c. What is HSS? High Speed Steel. d. What is stainless steel? Stainless steel is low in carbon but has about 20% chromium. Stainless has a beautiful finish but it is very hard to machine. Both CRS and HRS are mild steels. Mild steels have a low carbon (<.3%) content and therefore can't be hardened. CRS is formed (into bars, rods or angles ...) "cold" and therefore has internal stresses inside. Because of these stresses, an intricate part, like a one piece crankshaft, or a heat treated part may distort. CRS has a smooth surface, which requires no additional finishing. The steel stock found in the hardware store or home improvement center is usually CRS. HRS is formed hot so it does not have any internal stresses but it has a rough black scale surface. HRS is a little cheaper, but CRS is easier to find. HRS is used for welding, so a welding shop with steel stock would be a good source for HRS. HSS is a carbon steel (0.3% Date: 1 Dec 93 09:26:18 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 4 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Dec 93 09:26:19 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 707 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 4 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (with special thanks to Stu Friedberg). Note also that a potential source of manufacturers/suppliers is the Thomas Register, found in most public libraries. -- Special entry: Not a company or anything, but for more info on crafts supplies, send e-mail to info@crafts-council.pe.ca and put "WANTED:" at the beginning of the subject line. This is a non-profit service of PEI Crafts Council in Charlottetown, Price Edward Island, Canada. They maintain a list of crafts suppliers and can answer questions like "give me a list of ceramics suppliers East of the Mississippi" or "who sells ConeArt kilns?" (per a post 9-Nov-1993) - Allcraft Tool & Supply 666 Pacific St. Brooklyn, NY 11217 (800)645-7124, (718)789-2800 Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Allied Devices Corporation 2365 Milburn Ave P.O. Box 502 (516) 223-9100, (516) 223-9172 (FAX) "Standard Precision Mechanical Components" such as small gears. Reputedly not cheap, but Small Parts Inc isn't either. - American Watchmakers-Clockmakers Institute (AWI) P.O. Box 11011 Cincinnati, OH 45211 (513) 661-3838, (513) 661-3131 (FAX) Membership is around $45 or so per year. They have an excellent magazine, Horological Times. Their orientation is more towards watch/clock repair. They offer many courses along those lines. The "Project Extended" courses are given in Cincinnati, but they have many other courses (around 5 days) given around the country. They have at least 100 videotapes on various aspects of lathe work and clock repair. - ARE, Inc. Box 8 Greensboro Bend, VT 05842 (800)736-4273, (802)533-7007, (802)533-7008 fax Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Argus Books P.O. Box 35 Wolsey House Wolsey Road, Hemel Hempstead Herts HP2 4SS England Telephone: Hemel Hempstead (0442)66551 Publishers of Model Engineer in England. Heavy on live-steam model trains, mostly machining topics, some interesting plans. - Blue Ridge Machinery and Tools, Inc. PO Box 536 2806 Putnam Avenue Hurricane, WV 25516 800-872-6500, 304-562-3538 in WV, 304-562-5311 (fax) Credit cards, COD's up to $200 M,W,F 9-5 EST, Tu,Th 9-9 EST Lathes, milling machines, presses, brakes, from puny to industrial. Accessories and parts for popular machines from Myford, South Bend, Atlas, Sherline, Emco-Maier, etc. Hand tools and books of interest to hobbyists and professionals. Woodworking power tools Steel, brass, aluminum, tool steel in small quantities. 110 page catalog - Borel and Frei 712 S. Olive St. Los Angeles, CA 90014 (800)654-9591, (213)689-7007, (213)533-7008 fax Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Bourget Bros. Lapidary and Jeweler's Supplies 1636 11th St. Santa Monica, CA 90404 (800)828-3024 - Brownells Route 2 Box 1 200 South Front Street Montezuma, Iowa, 50171 (515) 623-5401, (515) 623-3896 (FAX) Brownells is a fine firm that specializes in gunsmithing, though a lot of their merchandise is great for general-purpose metalworking. Catalog is $4.00, refundable with first order of $40 or more (but if you can convince them you are a dealer, then it is free). They have lower prices for gun dealers, "enciphered" in the catalog in a manner similar to the following -- Item: Foo Bar Grips an9xx20dd Price: $19.95 means list price is $19.95, dealer price is $9.20. However, in recent catalogs they have changed the coding on some items. While some people have apparently convinced them they are a dealer, the usual requirement seems to be an FFL (Federal Firearms License) before they sell for the dealer price. - Campbell Tools, Inc. 2100-H Selma Rd. Springfield, OH 45505 (513) 322-8562 A machine supplier attuned to the hobbyist metalworker. They carry Sherline, Emco, Jet, and other machines. Also books, hardware, raw materials, etc. Highly recommended by one net reader. - Centaur Forge Ltd. P.O. Box 340 117 N. Spring Street Burlington, WI 53105 (414) 763-9175, (414) 763-8350 (FAX) Publications concentrate on forging, blacksmithing, though all aspects of metalworking are covered. A good, well-organized collection. They also publish a magazine, Anvil (see earlier section). Centaur Forge is the source for blacksmithing supplies from tongs to furnaces. Also a source of horse shoeing supplies. - Cole's Power Models P.O. Box 788 Ventura, CA 93001 (805) 643-7065 Castings, books, supplies, accessories. For trains, stationary steam, gasoline engines. The catalog costs $4. - Condar Co. 10500 Industrial Drive Garrettsville, OH 44231 (216) 527-4343 They sell a pyrometer (high-temp thermometer) for gas forges and such, Unit 9-85 which comes with a 6-foot 2200-degree probe for $60. They also have a high temp probe (3000 degrees; Unit 14S4-1, $17). Probably lots of other related items, but this came up in discussion on low-cost pyrometers around 3/25/93. - Darex Corporation 220 Hersey Street Box 277 Ashland, OR 97520 (503) 488-2224, (503) 488-2229 (FAX) Precision drill and end-mill sharpening equipment. Some of their complete systems are very expensive and intended for large production shops (around $2000). They also sell fixtures for use with existing grinders (about $250) and sharpeners for taps, reamers, and countersinks. - Eastwood Company (800) 345-1178 Metal fabrication equipment, welding supplies, etc. Reportedly, the prices are rather high. - Enco Manufacturing Co. 13 stocking locations, main site in Chicago, IL (addresses not handy now) 800-860-3400 (24 hr orders, automatically routes to closest location) 800-860-3500 (fax, also auto routes) Credit cards, COD's up to $500, discount for pre-pay by check $25 minimum order Customer service & Chicago showroom M-F 7-midnight CST, Sa 8-4 CST, Su 9-4 CST Lathes, milling machines, etc, from small to large NC machines. Hand tools, cutting tools, storage cabinets, shop supplies Maker (not just distributer) of turret bed lathes. However, many net folks have reported that quality and service are between awful and terrible (this author included), and that Enco is to be avoided. This is not a unanimous opinion, but close. 230 page catalog - Gateway Clocks 7936 Camberly Drive Powell, TN 37849 Gateway Clocks is apparently a one-man business, in the person of W. R. Smith, author of several clockmaking books and one on clockmaking and model-making (see earlier section in the FAQ). Gateway also sells all of John Wilding's books, and John Wilding (in England) sells all of Smith's books, through a reciprocal agreement. - Gesswein 255 Hancock Ave. Bridgeport, CT 06605 (800)243-4466, (203)366-5400, (203)366-3953 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Glendo Corporation 900 Overlander Road P.O. Box 1153 Emporia, KS 66801 (800) 835-3519, (316) 343-1084, (316) 343-9640 (FAX) Their Accu-Finish line of "advanced sharpening equipment" includes grinders and fixtures for lathe cutting bits and similar tools. Also, most affordable for the home shop, the Grind-R-Table for use with existing grinders. They often run ads in the magazines, or you can call for information. - Harbor Freight Tools 3491 Mission Oaks Blvd. Camarillo, CA 93011-6010 800 423 2567 They mostly sell cheap tools. Usually cheap = inexpensive, sometimes cheap = junky. All (or most all) imported. They are best for items which have a lot of metal in them and for which fine/precision is not your main objective. They have really great buys on anvils, cold chisel sets, screwdriver sets, tinsnips, crowbars, ... and free shipping (other than a $2.95 handling fee) for orders over $50. - Industrial Pipe and Steel Co. 9936 E. Rush Street South El Monte, CA 91733 800-423-4981, 818-443-9467, 818-579-4602 (fax) Credit cards, COD's M-F 7:30-4:30 PST, Sa 7:30-1 PST Cutting tools, hand tools, air tools, lathes, milling machines, you name it. Shop supplies, tool and die maker supplies, you name it. Metal of all sorts, you name it. New and used press die sets. Surplus rounds and plates. Buy by the foot, buy by the pound. Most of their metal stock is not listed in the catalog(s). Call and ask what they've got. Definitely oriented toward professional users, not hobbyists. Full line distributors for most instrument makers, Starrett, Mitutoyo, etc. Quality ranges from ultra-classy, great deals, garbage-at-any-price import. Small catalog several times a year, 200 page catalog once or twice a year, and a 750 page full-line catalog once every five years. They came out with a full-line catalog in 92. Get one if you can. - J. I. Morris Company 394 Elm Street Southbridge, MA 01550 Phone: (508) 764-4394, (508) 764-7350 (FAX) Tiny screws, nuts, washers. Sizes 0000-16 to 2-56 and popular UNM sizes stocked in many head styles and lengths in both brass and burr-free stainless. Matching taps, chasers, and gages available. Write/FAX for catalog or send for prompt quotation. - J. Malcolm Wild (Clocks) 12 Norton Green Close Sheffield S8 8BP England Telephone: 0742 745693 Supplies and accessories for clockmaking. - The Jeweler's Loupe 1625 Crenshaw Blvd. Torrance, CA 90501 (310)320-7005 - Kitts Industrial Tools 22384 Grand River Avenue Detroit, MI 48219 800-521-6579, 313-538-2585 in MI, 313-538-6499 (fax) Credit cards, COD's $25 minimum order M-Sa 9-5 EST Cutting tools, hand tools, air tools, supplies Quality ranges from ultra-classy, great deals, garbage-at-any-price import 150 page catalog - Klockit P.O. Box 636 Lake Geneva, WI 53147 (800) KLOCKIT (i.e. (800) 556-2548) Books, kits, plans, tools, parts for clocks and watches. - Lasquad Metals 419 N. 13th Street San Jose, CA (408) 294-3686 Hours: 10-5 M-F, 10-2 Sat. According to John Kopf, LASQUAD stands for "Loose And Sloppy, QUick And Dirty". Mostly aluminum ($2.60/lb new, 1.50 surplus), some brass (2.75 new, 2.00 surplus), some copper, stainless steel, etc. Its a couple of miles from Enco. Didn't sound like they'd take phone or mail orders but I haven't tried. - Lindsay Publications Inc. P. O. Box 538 Bradley, IL 60915-0538 (815) 935-5353 Lindsay publishes books for the home shop, covering casting, forging, machining, and a few plans for building engines and such. It has been reported that their catalog is "a bit bizarre" but the service is fast. Their electrical catalog has cross-over projects that include light (pun intended?) metalworking. - Mason & Sullivan 210 Wood County Industrial Park Parkersburg, WV 26102-1686 800-225-1153 (orders), 800-535-4486 (technical advice), 800-535-4482 (customer service), 304-428-8271 (FAX) Supplier of clock kits, plans, parts, and tools. In business since 1947, they recently went out of business, and have re-appeared owned in part by the employees, though they also appear to be affiliated with the Woodcraft company (same address!) - McMaster-Carr Supply Company PO Box 440 New Brunswick NJ 08903-0440 USA 908-329-3200 (Sales), 908-329-6666 (Other Departments), 908-329-3772 (FAX) Also has stocking sales centers in Atlanta, Chicago, and Los Angeles. Note that they apparently only deal with companies. Jim Harres reports that they refused to send him a catalog. Prints an annual 2600+ page catalog. Very complete supplier with tools, screws, shelving, wheels, lamps, heaters, air conditioners, plumbing, electrical supplies, plastics, metals, pumps, containers, motors, gauges, paint brushes, hooks, door hardware, pH testers, microscopes, etc. Metric and english threads and sizes, too. Small bits of information, reference charts and advice are scattered throughout the catalog. No minimum order. Satisfaction Guaranteed, whatever that means. No problem with returns, but they ask that you get specific return instructions before shipping anything back. All prices subject to change. Visa and MasterCard accepted. Prices are quoted plus actual shipping. Experience with McMaster-Carr is very good. They do update (read: raise) their prices frequently, so don't believe catalog prices. Get a quote before buying. Expect the catalog to be 10% low. Shipments have been prompt, complete, and accurate. Prices seem high, but they make up for it with "one-stop" shopping. - Metal Buyer's Mart, Ltd. (formerly Metal By Mail) N-15 W 22218 Watertown Road, Waukesha, WI 53186 (800) 657-0721 $2 catalog, which contains decent descriptions of what they sell (hardness, machinability, etc.). Ferrous and nonferrous metals, fasteners, and a few nonmetallic materials such as nylon and teflon. - MSC Industrial Supply Co. 151 Sunnyside Blvd Plainview, NY 11803 (800) 645-7270 (AT&T), (800) 753-7900 (MCI), (800) 255-5067 FAX Their 92/93 catalog is 1950 pages, and their selection has been described as "dumbfounding". - Nordex, Inc. 50 Newton Road P.O. Box 1956 Danbury, CT. 06813 (800) 243-0986 Usual range of precision components. Spur gears down to .25" O.D. - Norm Larson Books 5426 E. Hwy 246 Lompoc, CA 93436 (800) 743-4766, (805) 735-2095 "... books on just about every subject about metal working there is." - Omega Engineering P.O. Box 2669 Stamford, CT 06906 (203) 359-1660 Mentioned as a source for pyrometers and/or materials for making thermocouples and other process-measurement stuff. - Penn Tool Company 1776 Springfield Ave Maplewood, NJ 07040 (800) 526-4956 A very-well-stocked supplier with a very large selection of drills, taps, reamers, and other machining tools. However, in some cases their prices seem outrageous, so check around first. On the other hand, they may be the only source for that odd-sized spiral-flute reamer you need, or that #00 tap. Their catalogs are free; there is a small (196 pages in 1993) one and a large one (410 pages, catalog no. P-912 as of late 1992), so ask for both (they may only send you the short one if you say you're a hobbyist). - PIC Design P.O. Box 1004 Benson Road Middlebury, CT. 06762 (800) 243-6125 Usual range of precision components. Gears down to less than 3/8" O.D. - Power Model Supply Rt 1 Box 177 NW Cor Hwy 67 & Lond Rd Desoto, MO 63020 (314) 586-6466 Similar to Cole's but heavier on the trains. - Reactive Metals Studio Box 890 Clarkdale, AZ 86324 (800)876-3434, (602)634-3434 Niobium, mixed metals, for jewelry and perhaps other purposes. - Reid Tool Supply Company 2265 Black Creek Road Muskegon, MI 49444-2684 (800) 253-0421, (616) 777-3951, (616) 773-4485 (FAX) Prints a 350+ page catalog twice a year. Very complete assortment of knobs, screws, clamps, springs, air hoses and couplings, drills, mills, taps, machinist's tooling, and books. No minimum order, 30-day return with full refund. Offers rework and specialty items with special conditions and terms. - River Gems and Findings (formerly Rio Grande) Dept T1 6801 Washington NE Albuquerque, NM 87109 (800)545-6566 orders, (800)533-3299 service, (505)344-9671 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Rutland Tool & Supply 16700 E. Gale Avenue City of Industry, CA. 91745-0587 (800) 289-4787, (818) 961-7111, (800) 333-3787 (FAX) (courtesy of Jon Bork) Rutland is a general machine shop supply house, with a good selection of tools, machines and accessories. They primarily deal with professionals, but I have dealt with them in person and by phone and they have always been helpful and quick. They send out several catalogs yearly including a new safety equipment supply catalog. Their prices are reasonable and they stock both top of the line and "quality import" selections for most items. - S. LaRose, Inc. 234 Commerce Place, P.O. Box 21208 Greensboro, NC 27420 (919) 275-0462 Watch and clock movements, repair parts, supplies, tools, equipment. - Scanlon American Reprints P.O. Box 379 Modesto, CA 95353 (209) 667-2907 Scanlon sells many books on clocks. - Secs, Inc. 520 Homestead Ave. Mt. Vernon, N.Y. 10550 (914) 667-5600 General line of precision hardware, gears, pulleys, clutches, etc. - Servo Products Company 433 N. Fair Oaks Ave., Box 90370 Pasadena, CA 91109 (818) 796-2460, (818) 796-3845 (FAX) Small precision drill presses and milling machines, including a whopping expensive CNC mill ($15,000). Power feeds for mills. CNC small lathe, CNC add-on for large mills. - Small Parts, Inc. 13980 N.W. 58th Court P.O. Box 4650 Miami Lakes, FL. 33014 (305) 423-9009 Nicest line of supplies and hardware for prototype builders. Specifically targeted for small quantities. Catalog includes prices. More fun than the Sears catalog. - Stock Drive Products 2101 Jericho Turnpike Box 5416 New Hyde Park, NY 11042-5416 (516) 328-3300 These folks make all sorts of gears, drives, bearings, couplings, and related stuff. Small, not hydroelectric-sized. Ask them for their free publication "Handbook of Gears." They also publish "Handbook of Shafts, Bearings & Couplings," "Handbook of Timing Belts, Chains & Friction Drives," "Handbook of Design Components," "Aluminum Extrusions & Accessories." They also package the whole set (I asked for just the handbook of gears and got all five). - Swest, Inc. 11090 Stemmons Frwy Dallas, TX 75220 (800)527-5057, (214)247-7744, (214)247-5307 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Tee Publishing Edwards Centre Regent Street Hinckley Leics. LE100BB England 0455-637173/616419 From England, they publish Engineering in Miniature and other magazines. Similar to Argus, they have clockmaking books as well. They state they are the world's only company specializing in back issues of Model Engineer. - Travers Tool Company, Inc. 128-15 26th Avenue P.O. Box 1550 Flushing, NY 11354-0108 (800) 221-0270, (718) 886-7200, (800) 722-0703 (FAX), (718) 886-7895 (FAX) Prints a 500+ page large catalog once per year, and also sales flyers. Very complete line of tooling for machinists, including micrometers, mills, drills, reamers, broaches, taps, collets, tool posts, lathe tools, grinding wheels and stones, files, gages, vices, indicators, precision steel pieces, glops and goos, books, and some power tools. $25.00 minimum order. Visa, MasterCard, American Express accepted. Replace, refund, or full credit within 60 days of purchase (buyer's choice). Prices are subject to change without notice. Experience with Travers has been good. They are less expensive than McMaster-Carr and other full-price dealers. They sell premium and no-name lines of many similar tools so that you only buy the "quality" that you need. Their performance on orders was once imperfect, but they stand behind their merchandise, so correcting the error was easy, fast, and painless. I have ordered from them many times, so "one minor error out of many" is a good grade. - Vigor, sold by FDJ 2221 Lee Road, Suite #1 Winter Park, FL 32789 (800) 323-6091 (orders) (407) 629-6906 (407) 645-0707 (FAX) (FDJ is the company name, and sells the Vigor line) Jeweler's tools, video tapes, books, retailing supplies, and many universal tools being targeted at jewelers. Tweezers, ring forms, molds, forges, files, small lathes, loupes, calipers, torches, solders and brazing material, mountings, etc. An informative catalog. Very wide selection, but prices seem very high. - Village Press P.O. Box 1810 2779 Aero Park Drive Traverse City, MI 49685 (800) 447-7367, (616) 946-3712 Publishers of Home Shop Machinist, Projects in Metal, and Live Steam. Some back issues available; older ones are available as parts of several book series. See the individual entries in the "magazines" question. They also publish other books such as "So You Want to Build a Live Steam Locomotive." - Wholesale Tool (Stu Friedberg's favorite!) PO Box 68 Warren, MI 48089-0068 12155 Stephen Drive Warren, MI 48089-3962 800-521-3420, 800-521-3661 (fax), 313-754-9270, 313-754-8652 (fax) Broader selection of hand tools, fewer large machines than IP&S. Fork lifts. No bulk metals, but tool steel, shim stock, threaded rod, etc. Vast selection of cutting tools and grinding wheels. Scattering of interesting surplus items. Definitely oriented toward professional users, not hobbyists. Full line distributors for most instrument makers. 500 page full line catalog twice a year. You have to order by 8 digit stock number, so copy carefully. :-) 6 locations, main site in Warren, MI. Most items at most locations, some items in Michigan only, very few at other locations only. Credit cards, COD's with some payment restrictions $25 minimum order The other locations: PO Box 481 Stoughton, MA 02072-0481 1234 Washington Street (Route 138) Stoughton, MA 02072-3345, 800-343-1008, 617-344-0338, 617-341-0617 (fax) PO Box 700 Brandon, FL 33509-0700 9212 Adamo Drive Tampa, FL 33619-2631 800-237-4689, 813-623-3099, 813-623-5816 (fax) PO Box 470952 Tulsa, OK 74147-0952 9909 East 55th Place Tulsa, OK 74146-6404 800-331-4075, 918-627-2240, 918-627-2044 (fax) PO Box 240965 Charlotte, NC 28224-0965 4200 Barringer Drive Charlotte, NC 28217-1512 800-438-3580, 704-527-4071, 704-523-7960 (fax) 8100 Pinemont Drive Houston, TX 77040-6522 800-231-4585, 713-895-7777, 713-895-8113 (fax) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news Thu Dec 2 15:31:15 EST 1993 Article: 2864 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Eastern Tool & Supply: Opinions? Experiences? Date: 1 Dec 1993 17:51:59 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2diljv$gr5@oak.oakland.edu> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu I just re-subscribed to HSM, and I've been busy sending off for catalogs, lists and whatnot to replenish my out-of-date library of suppliers. One ad caught my eye- Eastern Tool & Supply in NYC. They seem to be a discount supplier of tools and supplies, and claim 'Try us for everything!". SOunds interesting, but has anyone dealt with them? I also see in the latest issue that Guy Lautard now has Volume 3 of TMBR out. That's 'The Machinist's Bedside Reader', to the uninitiated. Fun, interesting stuff, and as a bonus this one appears *not* to have any of his fiction in it ;-) --mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Thu Dec 2 15:31:17 EST 1993 Article: 2865 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Date: 1 Dec 1993 20:17:52 GMT Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2diu5g$lj2@tymix.Tymnet.COM> References: <1993Dec1.123927.1@engvms.unl.edu> Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com In article 1@engvms.unl.edu, chio112a023@engvms.unl.edu () writes: > HELP me make powdered alum > > please help me to learn how to make powdered aluminum for my > model rockets > The *cheapest* way is to FILE a block of aluminum and catch the filings on a sheet of mewspaper! JK From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!henry.med.uiuc.edu!user Thu Dec 2 15:31:18 EST 1993 Article: 2866 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!henry.med.uiuc.edu!user From: jjhenry@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Henry) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Devilbis Aircompressor Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 1 Dec 1993 20:42:13 GMT Organization: University of Illinois, CSB Lines: 10 Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: henry.med.uiuc.edu Does anyone have any experience with the Devilbis (spelling?) brand of air compressors? I have found a 5hp, 60 gal upright model on sale for $400. This model is single stage, and has aluminum heads with cast iron sleeves. Are they reliable, quite, etc? Metal Meister P.S. Thanks to all who replied to my earlier inquiry regarding air compressors. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!rutgers!cmcl2!admii!ovation!lori.pica.army.mil!mike Thu Dec 2 15:31:20 EST 1993 Article: 2867 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!rutgers!cmcl2!admii!ovation!lori.pica.army.mil!mike From: mike@lori.pica.army.mil (Mike Folenta) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: Date: 1 Dec 93 16:31:31 GMT References: <1993Nov30.074025.2985@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> <2dggrl$pia@usenet.rpi.edu> <2dhc0k$pt6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Sender: usenet@pica.army.mil (USENET Special Account ) Reply-To: mfolenta@pica.army.mil Organization: US Army Armament, Research, & Development Center Lines: 33 Nntp-Posting-Host: lori.pica.army.mil moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) writes: |> I've heard of an interesting variation on an H2/O2 torch. In this torch the |> H2 is passed through an electric arc converting it into atomic hydrogen (H). |> This is burned with the O2, and the heat of combustion of atomic hydrogen |> is much higher than that molecular hydrogen, and the torch is rather hotter |> than oxyacetylene. |> |> (instead of 2H2 + O2 = 2H2O the reaction is 4H + O2 = 2H2O) |> |> -Mike Weeeeellllll, I don't really think so!!! How long (time wise or distance from the arc) do you think that the atomic hydrogen is going to stay as a monomer? Molecules which as typically found as dimers (N2, O2, H2, etc) are that way because the base atoms are SOOOO reactive that as soon as they see or get near ANY other atom, they react (bind). And the most likely atom around when you split H2 is another H. And then they rebind and are more stable and the universe goes on. Yeah, monoatomic hydrogen would be VERY reactive. :-} But why do we need to try and get an atomic hydrogen torch? We were just looking for a small, clean torch originally for jewelry work. -- ***** These are my opinions. Get your own. :-) ***** Michael Folenta | U.S. Army ARDEC Future Weapons Branch | Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806-5000 email mfolenta@pica.army.mil | (201) 724-3791 [DSN 880-3791] From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!csd.unb.ca!mta.ca!AKARPOWICZ Thu Dec 2 15:31:22 EST 1993 Article: 2868 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!csd.unb.ca!mta.ca!AKARPOWICZ From: akarpowicz@mta.ca (Adam Karpowicz) Subject: Re: HELP me make powdered aluminum! Message-ID: <1993Dec2.010630.23657@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> Sender: news@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca Reply-To: akarpowicz@mta.ca Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada References: <1993Dec1.132410.1@engvms.unl.edu> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 01:06:30 GMT Lines: 20 In article <1993Dec1.132410.1@engvms.unl.edu>, chio112a023@engvms.unl.edu writes: >sorry about the one with no name. That was the first time I learned how to >use the newsgroup. I still need help trying to make powdered aluminum for >my model rocket engines. Ermy thanks you for your support! > >please email any knowldge you may have or just leave your message in this >group >thanks again I doubt if powdered aluminum can be easily made (i.e. powdered fine enough to ignite with an oxidizer). I would try powdered "silver" paints, they are supposedly aluminum. Adam Karpowicz akarpowicz@mta.ca From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!news.csos.orst.edu!CSOS.ORST.EDU!forbesm Thu Dec 2 15:31:24 EST 1993 Article: 2869 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!news.csos.orst.edu!CSOS.ORST.EDU!forbesm From: forbesm@CSOS.ORST.EDU (Mark Forbes) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Date: 2 Dec 1993 06:55:04 GMT Organization: CS Outreach Services, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR, USA Lines: 24 Message-ID: <2dk3g8$e3r@jadzia.CSOS.ORST.EDU> References: <1993Dec1.123927.1@engvms.unl.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: csos.orst.edu [Looking for info on 'making aluminum powder for model rockets] We'll all be happy to help, as long as your next-of-kin sends out the videotape of your final moments. :-) Why don't you just buy some? VWR Scientific and suchlike chemical supply houses routinely stock such stuff in a variety of grades. Call your local university ( I think you're *at* one) chemistry department and ask them. They may even be able to sell it to you. If you're going for pyromania, why not use magnesium? It's easy enough to get, and machines easily. Call a local machine shop and see if anybody around there has machine work done on magnesium. Most shops would be happy to get rid of the chips. They're a fire hazard. You can make magnesium powder with a grinding burr and a glob of magnesium. The bigger the glob and burr, the more powder you'll have the sooner. Mark G. Forbes | forbesm@kira.csos.orst.edu Corvallis, OR | 503 754 3104 home phone | Hardware R & D "Never ascribe to malice that which can be blamed on the engineer." Don't even *think* about trying any of this at home! From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!nmerh207!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user Thu Dec 2 15:31:27 EST 1993 Article: 2870 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!nmerh207!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user From: wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) Subject: Melting Al castings Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Sender: news@bnr.ca (usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: 47.220.4.59 Organization: Bell Northern Research Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 13:08:27 GMT Lines: 9 Someone mentioned using the cast aluminum from old hard disk drives. Excellent re-cycling idea. Now for my question, at what temperature is it likely to melt? And, how fast does it cool? Or, should it be helped in the cooling process? Thanks in advance. Bill Webster (WWEBSTER@BNR.CA) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Thu Dec 2 15:31:32 EST 1993 Article: 2871 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small milling machines Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1993 14:49:10 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 21 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <1.1558.1835.0NB4C358@execnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article <1.1558.1835.0NB4C358@execnet.com>, gary.rosenkranz@execnet.com (Gary Rosenkranz) wrote: > I have a Bridgeport series 1 milling machine now and need a 2 nd machine > I do not have a lot of space and would like a small milling machine to > make injection molds. I need a machine that will not have a lot of > vibration when cutting. Is there a good machine ( that is also small ) > that i should look for. I recently saw a small Classing at an auction > that looked nice. Any help would be appreciated. > > Gary I have a Centec 2A with vertical head which has a 16" x 5" table. It's very solidly built and occupies only a few square feet on its cabinet. I would avoid anything smaller like some of the hobby machines or the round column mill/drills because they just aren't that rigid. Go for a machine with a box section column. Senior are good too. Both are now secondhand only (at least I hcan't trace current addresses) Clive. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Thu Dec 2 15:31:33 EST 1993 Article: 2872 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Workshop safety Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1993 14:54:45 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 20 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk I am currently writing an article on chemical safety in the workshop for one of the UK craft magazines. It will cover materials like pickle, hardening solutions, solvents, etchants, etc. Although I already have quite a lot of information, I would like to hear from anyone who has this type of information on workshop materials. Accident warnings, cautionary tales, handling information, tox data, will all be useful. You can mail me, but I suggest that the material is posted here instead. The reason is that I won't be able to post the final article since the copyright will belong to the magazine. If you post it here, we can all read it. Thanks all! Clive Washington. Dept. Pharmaceutical Sciences, Nottingham University. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!promus.com!bmaccion!bmaccion Thu Dec 2 15:31:36 EST 1993 Article: 2873 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!promus.com!bmaccion!bmaccion From: bmaccion@promus.com (Bob Maccione) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Really small compressors Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 09:15:07 Organization: The Promus Companies, Inc. (Memphis, TN) Lines: 20 Distribution: na Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: bmaccion.promus.com Summary: where to get a really small compressor X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Yep, just another newbee here, I'm sorry in advance if the following question is incorrect for this group, but this group seems to talk more about compressors. I'm looking for the smallest usable compressor for doing the following: a: a little sandblasting b: a little painting c: pump up the tires d: maybe run a few air tools You'll notice that the key word is 'a little' in that this isn't a fulltime hobby and I'm sorry to say that I can't give up the garage space for a large compressor. I really don't mind it taking a little longer to sandblast something as long as it can be done. Thanks, bob maccione bmaccion@promus.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!noc.near.net!mv!chillon!neidorff Thu Dec 2 15:31:37 EST 1993 Article: 2874 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!noc.near.net!mv!chillon!neidorff From: neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff) Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: <1993Dec2.135829.18886@uicc.com> Originator: neidorff@makore.uicc.com Sender: news@uicc.com (USENET News System) Organization: Unitrode Integrated Circuits Corp., Merrimack, NH References: <1993Nov30.074025.2985@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> <2dfunk$t1q@samba.oit.unc.edu> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 13:58:29 GMT Lines: 18 I guess all of this H2O stuff has got me thinking. Wouldn't it be cheaper to use a normal oxy-acetylene torch on an Oxygen and a Hydrogen bottle? Hydrogen can't be as expensive or as unstable as acetylene, and it seems like, from the costs mentioned so far, that oxy-acetylene rigs are cheaper than these water torches. What am I missing? And you thought this stuff was dangerous enough. Now you got me thinking! :-) -- Bob Neidorff; Unitrode I. C. Corp. | Internet: neidorff@uicc.com 7 Continental Blvd. | Voice : (US) 603-424-2410 Merrimack, NH 03054-0399 USA | FAX : (US) 603-424-3460 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys.dt.navy.mil!not-for-mail Thu Dec 2 15:31:38 EST 1993 Article: 2875 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys.dt.navy.mil!not-for-mail From: knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Knaell) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Date: 2 Dec 1993 10:59:29 -0500 Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD Lines: 46 Message-ID: <2dl3d1INNqc3@oasys.dt.navy.mil> References: <74261@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Reply-To: knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ken Knaell) NNTP-Posting-Host: oasys.dt.navy.mil In rec.crafts.metalworking, jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) writes: I imagine you'd >only need three to five psi for the thing to work okay. I forget my >chemistry, however. As the pressure builds up will the electrolysis >rate decrease, or does it stay more or less constant? I imagine that it would only take a slight pressure also since one could run the torch with the handpiece valves wide open. The stoichiometric mixture of two volumes of hydrogen to one of oxygen to produce a neutral (not oxidising or reducing) flame would be insured since the gasses came from neutral water. The pressures would be approximately equal if the electrolysis took place in oneenclosed volume with only a slight pressure head of water between the H2 and O2 collection chambers. The thought occurs to use two plastic 1 liter soda bottles to minimize explosion hazard and to be able to see the water levels. These would be connected by a water bridge as showen. The electrical current to stainless steel electrodes could be made through the same metal tubing used to withdraw the gas. +V -V . . . . ____. .______ <- ___ \ / ____ -> gas \.\ /./ gas |.| |.| |.| |.| /.\ /.\ / . \ / . \ | . | | . | | . ________ . | | . ________ . | | - | ^ | - | \_____/ | \_____/ | | water bridge I think 1 liter of water lould supply enough gas for most of my welding jobs. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// | KENNETH KNAELL | STATEMENTS MADE HERE DO NOT | | CARDEROCK DIV NSWC | REPRESENT POLICY OF THE | | BETHESDA, MD 20084-5000 | U.S. NAVY | From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david Thu Dec 2 15:31:41 EST 1993 Article: 2876 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david From: david@barney.UUCP (David Hoopes) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: <198@barney.UUCP> Date: 2 Dec 93 12:56:22 GMT References: <1993Nov30.074025.2985@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> <2dggrl$pia@usenet.rpi.edu> <2dhc0k$pt6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Organization: Exabyte, Lenexa (Formerly Tallgrass Technologies) Lines: 20 mike@lori.pica.army.mil (Mike Folenta) writes: [stuff deleted] > Yeah, monoatomic hydrogen would be VERY reactive. :-} > But why do we need to try and get an atomic hydrogen torch? We were > just looking for a small, clean torch originally for jewelry work. More power!!!! -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- David Hoopes Exabyte Corp. david@tallgrass.COM 11100 W 82nd St. Voice: (913) 492-6002 x3323 Lenexa, Ks 66214 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Thu Dec 2 15:31:42 EST 1993 Article: 2877 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small milling machines Message-ID: <1993Dec2.090651.1019@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 2 Dec 93 09:06:51 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) References: <1.1558.1835.0NB4C358@execnet.com> Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 12 Does anybody have experiences/suggestions regarding Prazi? I see they sell small lathes and mills, and their ads make it clear they are proud of them :-). Direct comparisons of Sherline and Taig mills would also be appreciated (the FAQ isn't clear on mills, and mainly discusses capabilities, not experiences). I, too, am shopping for a small mill (a friend has a large Grizzley but he lives 250 miles away). Jim From samba.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!london Thu Dec 2 19:38:51 EST 1993 Article: 2878 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!london From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Devilbis Aircompressor Date: 2 Dec 1993 20:39:25 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 18 Message-ID: <2dljpt$jcn@samba.oit.unc.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: calypso.oit.unc.edu In article jjhenry@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Henry) writes: >Does anyone have any experience with the Devilbis (spelling?) brand of air >compressors? I have found a 5hp, 60 gal upright model on sale for $400. >This model is single stage, and has aluminum heads with cast iron sleeves. >Are they reliable, quite, etc? I have a friend who has one and I think it's a 3hp model. He thinks the world of it. Apparently this is a high quality piece of equipment and hard to find (maybe they're not manufactured anymore). A 5hp model in reasonable shape for $400 would seem to be a real bargain. E-mail me if you want my friend's telco #. He'd be happy to discuss this machine with you. He's knowledgeable regarding design, repair and maintenance and parts availability. Lawrence London london@sunSITE.unc.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Thu Dec 2 19:38:52 EST 1993 Article: 2879 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Small milling machines Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec2.165306.15263@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <1.1558.1835.0NB4C358@execnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 11:53:04 -0500 Lines: 46 In article <1.1558.1835.0NB4C358@execnet.com>, gary.rosenkranz@execnet.com (Gary Rosenkranz) wrote: > I have a Bridgeport series 1 milling machine now and need a 2 nd machine > I do not have a lot of space and would like a small milling machine to > make injection molds. I need a machine that will not have a lot of > vibration when cutting. Is there a good machine ( that is also small ) > that i should look for. I recently saw a small Classing at an auction > that looked nice. Any help would be appreciated. > > Gary I have an old Clausing at home that I'm very happy with. I know of 5 others in the area that are also much appreciated by their owners. If you buy one, check it out carefully. There were several variations as the years went by that slowly removed a number of features. The newest ones had no brake, and no threaded nut at the top of the spindle spline. This makes removing a stuck collet a real pain. The oldest ones (the best if you can find one in good shape) had an arrangement that would push the collet out as well as pull it in, which I'm going to retrofit to mine someday. Many, but not all, parts are still available. Anything requiring a casting may be difficult to get, but they will make (for $$$$) machined parts. Things to watch for: 1) Bad bearings: The center idler bearing, the front pulley bearings, and the top quill bearing have all died on machines I've known. All but the last are not tooo difficult to replace. The quill bearing is a standard motor grade, but you have to pull the $150/pair precision bearings to get at it, at which point you might as well rebuild the quill. The best way to check this is to remove the belts, and turn things by hand. 2) Brake: A friends brake (an iron ring under the top pulley) split. This can be a bit of a pain to replace. 3) Worn quill feed gears: Mine had been bashed at some point, and one of the quill feed gears had a badly bent tooth. In addition, the quill feed pinion was badly worn. Replacements were available, but cost around $75 for the pair. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Thu Dec 2 19:38:53 EST 1993 Article: 2880 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Melting Al castings Message-ID: <1993Dec2.084548.172@flying-disk.com> Date: 2 Dec 93 08:45:48 PST References: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 24 In article , wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) writes: > Someone mentioned using the cast aluminum from old hard disk drives. > Excellent re-cycling idea. > Now for my question, at what temperature is it likely to melt? > And, how fast does it cool? Or, should it be helped in the cooling > process? I don't recall the temperature it started to melt at, but I think we poured it at about 1400 degrees F. The speed it cools at will depend on the mass and shape of the piece you are casting. The pieces we were casting were about a pound or three (pieces for the Gingery lathe). We waited about 20 minutes before shaking them out, but I am told that it could be done sooner. At that point they were still much too hot to touch. When they got down to around 300-400 degrees F, we cooled them in water. This didn't seem to cause any problems. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com!sgi.dev.cdx.mot.com!johnb Thu Dec 2 19:38:54 EST 1993 Article: 2881 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com!sgi.dev.cdx.mot.com!johnb From: johnb@sgi.dev.cdx.mot.com (John Bottoms) Subject: Re:Making Powdered Aluminum Message-ID: <1993Dec2.150354.28349@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com> Sender: news@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Merlin News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: sgi.dev.cdx.mot.com Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, MA References: <1993Dec1.123927.1@engvms.unl.edu> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 15:03:54 GMT Lines: 11 Please do not attempt to make powdered aluminum in your home. Powdered aluminum is highly explosive, exploding without even a containment wrapper. It has about 3 times the specific impulse of dynamite. If you are interested in safe techniques for handling manufacturED materials, contact the people at rec.pyrotechnics. Powdered aluminum is blued to prevent it from oxidizing and is referred to as german silver or flash powder. Graunulated aluminum is much safer but still NOT something you want to use in a model rocket. -johnbottoms Concord, MA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!bej Sun Dec 5 11:59:42 EST 1993 Article: 2882 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!bej From: bej@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Bruce E Johnson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Workshop safety Date: 2 Dec 1993 20:01:37 GMT Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group Lines: 14 Message-ID: <2dlhj2$m86@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu #$@@#!@## Can't remember right now, but a year ago at a Society of Toxicology meeting I saw a book Chemical Safety for the Artist, or something like that; possibly published by Elsevier. I glanced through it at the meeting, and it seemed pretty thorough and readable. If I can dig up the proper reference, I'll post it along. Bruce Johnson The University of Arizona bej@gas.uug.arizona.edu play johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu work My opininons, Mine, Mine, all Mine! Bwahahahaha! From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!netcomsv!wndrsvr!johnm Sun Dec 5 11:59:43 EST 1993 Article: 2883 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!netcomsv!wndrsvr!johnm From: johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.us (johnm) Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? Message-ID: Sender: johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.us (johnm) Organization: WNDRSVR - Public Access for Southern California +1-310-370-3069 References: <1993Nov30.004403.27993@gallant.apple.com> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 17:07:46 GMT Lines: 37 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.misc:2537 rec.crafts.metalworking:2883 rec.woodworking:27824 > I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding glass > cutting band saws. > > I saw a post in rec.crafts.misc (I believe) about a year ago from > someone who seemed very pleased with a stained glass cutting band > saw. However, I!ve talked to a few glass dealers who claim that > they cut very slowly (one inch/minute) and really aren!t worth it > unless you need to make very integrate cuts which would be > impossible to do otherwise. > I agree with the glass dealer. I have not seen the bandsaw but I have seen many glass saws. The problem is class can not be cut a we think of it from having experience with things like wood or plastic. That is why most glass is cut by scoring. Some very intricate cuts can be made with scoring, check out a stain glass expert. Glass cutting with a saw is a grinding process. Typically diamond abrasives are used. Since the volume of cut material is removed in powder instead of a chip the processes just can not be too fast with causing high stresses in the glass. Bandsaw blades wear as the revolve due to the bending around the wheels. Priced any diamond blades lately? My 7 1/4 circular saw blade cost over $100. I am sure the bandsaw blade would cost much more. In fact if I made the bandsaws I would give the user the saw as long as I could sell him the blades!! My advice is figure out what it is you really want to do. See is the more traditional cutting methods could be used. Then price the cost of having it cut by someone who owns the equipment. [*> Management may or may not agree with the above message. [*> WndrSvr in Southern California; Call +1-310-370-3069 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Marzolino Bad spellers of the world unight! 71242,1610 Compuserve "Plants are like people, but they Johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.us listen better" From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news Sun Dec 5 11:59:44 EST 1993 Article: 2884 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small milling machines Date: 2 Dec 1993 19:01:06 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2dle1i$cqg@oak.oakland.edu> References: <1993Dec2.090651.1019@roper.uwyo.edu> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article 1019@roper.uwyo.edu, jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) writes: >Does anybody have experiences/suggestions regarding Prazi? >I see they sell small lathes and mills, and their ads make >it clear they are proud of them :-). I had a chance to play around with a Prazi at Kitt's Tools- though not to actually run it. They seem very well made, and use mostly steel where the Sherline uses mostly aluminum. Prices seem to vary greatly, with the basic 5" lathe going from under $1K (Kitts) to about $1400 (Production Tool) locally. --mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!destroyer!emuvax!lt705_712654 Sun Dec 5 11:59:44 EST 1993 Article: 2885 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!destroyer!emuvax!lt705_712654 From: lt705_712654@emuvax.emich.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Post vises Message-ID: <1993Dec2.193728.490@emuvax.emich.edu> Date: 2 Dec 93 19:37:28 EST Organization: EASTERN MICHIGAN University Lines: 14 Post vises, I love em. I recently bought a 60 lb. five inch post vise at an auction for $35. What a deal. The bad news is the socket the crank bolt fits into is missing its crown. Is there a place to get parts? Does anyone know any history or books about the history of the post vise? I talked to a smith who said you can beat on them with a sledge and they beg for more. Too cool. Billy Bob Sheldon From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!netsys!pagesat!direct!indirect.com!greg_p Sun Dec 5 11:59:45 EST 1993 Article: 2886 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!netsys!pagesat!direct!indirect.com!greg_p From: greg_p@indirect.com (Gregory Pettengill) Subject: Re: gas welding/brazing aluminum References: <2dg1qc$ktl@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@herald.indirect.com (News) Organization: Internet Direct Inc (602)274-0100 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 02:28:45 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 5 -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ * Greg Pettengill | Just because my opinions may * * | change doesn't mean that I * * greg_p@indirect.com | was wrong. * From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!world!moroney Sun Dec 5 11:59:46 EST 1993 Article: 2887 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!world!moroney From: moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA References: <1993Nov30.074025.2985@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> <2dggrl$pia@usenet.rpi.edu> <2dhc0k$pt6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 06:52:50 GMT Lines: 43 mike@lori.pica.army.mil (Mike Folenta) writes: > moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) writes: >|> I've heard of an interesting variation on an H2/O2 torch. In this torch the >|> H2 is passed through an electric arc converting it into atomic hydrogen (H). >|> This is burned with the O2, and the heat of combustion of atomic hydrogen >|> is much higher than that molecular hydrogen, and the torch is rather hotter >|> than oxyacetylene. >|> >|> (instead of 2H2 + O2 = 2H2O the reaction is 4H + O2 = 2H2O) >|> >|> -Mike > Weeeeellllll, I don't really think so!!! > How long (time wise or distance from the arc) do you think that the > atomic hydrogen is going to stay as a monomer? That's what I thought until I first read about it. This is what the McGraw Hill Encyclopedia of Science and Technology has to say: "...Atomic hydrogen is also produced when an electrical discharge is passed through hydrogen gas at low pressure or when a mixture of hydrogen and mercury is irradiated with light of wavelength 2537A from a mercury arc. ... The heat released when hydrogen atoms recombine to form hydrogen molecules is used to obtain very high temperatures in atomic hydrogen welding." [hmm, no mention of O2 used in such a torch. Maybe they don't bother (heat of 2H -> H2 releases almost twice as much energy as H2 + 1/2 O2 -> H2O)] > Yeah, monoatomic hydrogen would be VERY reactive. :-} "Atomic hydrogen is a powerful reducing agent, even at room temperature. It reacts with oxides and chlorides of many metals including silver, copper, lead ... reduces some Na and K salts to the metallic state... reacts with a number of elements to yield hydrides. > But why do we need to try and get an atomic hydrogen torch? We were > just looking for a small, clean torch originally for jewelry work. -Mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!nwnexus!neilm Sun Dec 5 11:59:47 EST 1993 Article: 2888 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: H2O2 welder Date: 2 Dec 1993 22:12:41 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 17 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <1993Dec2.135829.18886@uicc.com> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92s (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <1993Dec2.135829.18886@uicc.com> neidorff@uicc.com writes: > > I guess all of this H2O stuff has got me thinking. > > Wouldn't it be cheaper to use a normal oxy-acetylene torch on an > Oxygen and a Hydrogen bottle? Hydrogen can't be as expensive or As I understand it, hydrogen is a real SOB to store; atoms are so small they sneak through seals, threads, and such. The only way to make it stay put is to bind it with some other element, like oxygen, and that brings us right back to water. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Sun Dec 5 11:59:48 EST 1993 Article: 2889 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Post vises Date: 3 Dec 1993 20:09:25 GMT Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 8 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2do6dl$d58@tymix.Tymnet.COM> References: <1993Dec2.193728.490@emuvax.emich.edu> Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com The post vise is a traditional blacksmith's tool. It is also traditionally "fixed" by the blacksmith when necessary (the most common failure these days on an old post vise is broken spring and/or spring clamp). JK From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.uoregon.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!sinnett-104-486.NASH.ORST.EDU!sinnettc Sun Dec 5 11:59:49 EST 1993 Article: 2890 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.uoregon.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!sinnett-104-486.NASH.ORST.EDU!sinnettc From: sinnettc@ccmail.orst.edu (DRAGON!) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 22:01:46 GMT Organization: F & W and Micro, Oregon State University Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <1993Nov30.004403.27993@gallant.apple.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sinnett-104-486.nash.orst.edu Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.misc:2548 rec.crafts.metalworking:2890 rec.woodworking:27887 In article johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.us (johnm) writes: >From: johnm@wndrsvr.la.ca.us (johnm) >Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? >Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 17:07:46 GMT >> I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding glass >> cutting band saws. Have you checked with any of the St. Glass suppliers? There's a whole list with 800#'s, compiled by some folks on the SG bbs on Prodigy, that I could post for you. Chris. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- DRAGON! /\_\/_/\ | 0\/0 | | -- | \| |/ | | 0 ()() o WHAT THE DRAGON! SAYS IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE \ * OPINIONS OF WHERE THE DRAGON! WORKS! SO THERE! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!heimdall!hpes3!esdave Sun Dec 5 11:59:50 EST 1993 Article: 2891 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!heimdall!hpes3!esdave From: esdave@hpes3.sdrc.com (q) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: test Message-ID: <5159@heimdall.sdrc.com> Date: 3 Dec 93 12:56:38 GMT Sender: news@heimdall.sdrc.com Organization: SDRC Lines: 1 sorry...just testing From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Sun Dec 5 11:59:50 EST 1993 Article: 2892 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: Really small compressors Message-ID: <1993Dec2.155843.28523@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 31 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: Distribution: na Date: 2 Dec 93 15:58:42 CST Bob Maccione (bmaccion@promus.com) wrote: : I'm looking for the smallest usable compressor for doing the following... : a little sandblasting, a little painting, pump up the tires, maybe run a few : air tools I have no idea on the requirement for sandblasting; I'm guessing that it is not that much worse than painting (stands back and waits for a wave of "no, no, you fool, sandblasting and painting are worst of all...) Pumping tyres is trivial. I *think* (and will doubtless be proved wrong) that the type of tool(s) you might run would determine the capacity you need. As I recall my "jitterbug sander" has the most voracious appetite of all my air tools. Look around at the boxes for the tools and stuff you will buy (or already have or look like the second hand things you might try and get) and look at the capacity requirement in CFM/PSI. Then go and look at the capabilities of compressors. In terms of physical size the difference between a 5HP "portable" with a reasonable CFM/PSI is not that significant with a 2.5/3.5 HP with much less capacity. Power requirements may also be an issue, since a 5HP compressor that needs a 20A 220V service is not quite as portable as something that will run from a 15 or 20A 110V service, purely because of power service accessibility. My $0.02 worth... Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psgrain!percy!beacon.rain.com Sun Dec 5 11:59:51 EST 1993 Article: 2893 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psgrain!percy!beacon.rain.com From: Richard.Bash@f68.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Richard Bash) Subject: New system onboard Sender: news@percy.rain.com (Jeff Beadles) Organization: Combat Arms BBS - Portland, OR - (503) 221-1777 (1:105/68) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 01:51:53 GMT Message-ID: <1879@beacon.rain.com> Lines: 22 With this message the Combat Arms BBS in Portland, Oregon is please to join the metalworking conference. My personal interst is gunsmithing and the like. Other posters from my BBS will probably have similar interests. Please advise where obtain the FAQ file, so I may ftp it and make it available to callers. This is a dial-up Fidonet BBS system that is not directly connected to the Internet (hence no ftp capabilities; sorry; have some File Request capability; Fidonet SysOps should file request ALLFILES.ZIp for a listing of files; I ftp through Portland State University, where I am a PhD candidate in Public Administration and Policy). Thanks in advance for your assistance. Looking forward to your posts. +...................................................................+ . richard.bash@f68.n105.z1.fidonet.org Combat Arms BBS . . Also: dickbash@rigel.cs.pdx.edu P.O. Box 913 . . Fido 1:105/68 Portland, OR 97201 . . Voice: 1-503-223-3160 BBS:1-503-221-1777 Shop: 1-503-640-3209 . +...................................................................+ From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!slindsay Sun Dec 5 11:59:52 EST 1993 Article: 2894 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!slindsay From: slindsay@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steve Lindsay) Subject: Re: Engraving Silver Message-ID: <1993Dec4.061409.28684@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <754333781snz@sparrow.demon.co.uk> <2ddl97$1fi@tymix.Tymnet.C Date: Sat, 4 Dec 93 06:14:09 GMT Lines: 85 In article <754697041snz@sparrow.demon.co.uk>, boris wrote: >In article <2ddl97$1fi@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@Tymnet.COM writes: > >>Linsey books (see the FAQ) has a reprint of a ~1900 book on engraving, ostly >>on engraving text. >> >>Why is silver special? I've seen nothing on engraving that appears to e >>metal-dependant. >> > >**Quite right ,i just want to know about silver as thats my field. > Obviously the softness makes life easier ,compared to engraving > copper or steel, engraving ivory is the most tricky i believe. > I have one book by Frank Britton which is a text over here but > it omits quite a bit ,and i wanted to find out what graver is > used to make what is called a "bright cut" this was used in the > 18th century to create a decorative effect on silver ware such as > spoons and teapots etc . To become accomplished at engraving is > very difficult IMO so i want to read up on everything i can get > hold of. > > thanks for the info >-- > > > +==============================================+ > + /o o\ } Who taught granny to suck eggs? + > + v } boris@sparrow.demon.co.uk { + > + """ } of LONDON ,ENGLAND { + > +=="""=========================================+ > > > I have been self-employed as a hand engraver for 13 years. My father was a jeweler and I would work with his engraving tools in the back room starting when I was 12. For the 13 years I have been engraving hand made knives, guns and some jewelry. The only book that I found helpful when I started was a book by an engraver that had helped me when I was young. My father knew him and between him and my father's encourage I kept up the practice. His name is James B. Meek. He was from Iowa and died probably 8 years or so ago. The name of the book is: The Art of Engraving by James B. Meek Published by F. Brownell & Son Montezuma, Iowa Before he died he was working on a second version but I don't know if he ever finished it. Since then there have been several books written by the G.R.S. company. But I don't like them because I think they are propaganda book to sell the companies GraverMax. You mentioned you were wanting to do bright cutting in Silver. Silver and copper plates is a great material to practice in and cuts great. Although pure silver starts to get pretty sticky if you take a cut with any depth similar to 24k gold. The way a lot of those old silver engraved belt buckles were engraved was with a chisel looking flat graver. By sticking one corner in and cutting along and when you want a bright big cut just start to lay the edge down so it starts to cut on more of the chisel edge. The way they did those wiggle cuts is by using this same flat graver and wiggle it back and forth between the corners. For my flat graver I grind it from 3/32 MoMax toolbits. For a long time I used MoMax for my square graver but for the last 5 or so years I have been useing 3/32 carbide. The only hand engraving supply co. I know of is: Hand Engravers Supply Co. 601 Springfield Drive Albany, GA 31707 912-432-9683 I'm sure they carry the Meek book and probably others. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Sun Dec 5 11:59:52 EST 1993 Article: 2895 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: HELP me make powdered aluminum! Message-ID: <1993Dec4.071009.2777@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: <1993Dec1.132410.1@engvms.unl.edu> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 07:10:09 GMT Lines: 19 chio112a023@engvms.unl.edu writes: : sorry about the one with no name. That was the first time I learned how to : use the newsgroup. I still need help trying to make powdered aluminum for : my model rocket engines. Ermy thanks you for your support! Forget it. It is not worth the effort. Call Firefox, in Idaho, and ask them to send you their catalog. The number is 208 237-1976. They have a minimum $15 order, plus shipping and hazmat fee. You will not be able to buy flake aluminum, but you do not need it for rocket motors - atomized works fine. The reason you would not want to get flake, is that UPS refuses to handle it any more - truck freight is very expensive - unless you are buying 100+ pounds at a time. Firefox also sells rocket motor making hardware, casings, chemicals, books etc. The aluminum you would want, about -190 mesh, sells for around $8.75 per pound. Bill From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Sun Dec 5 11:59:53 EST 1993 Article: 2896 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: HELP me make powdered aluminum! Message-ID: <1993Dec4.071058.2841@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: <1993Dec2.010630.23657@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 07:10:58 GMT Lines: 9 akarpowicz@mta.ca (Adam Karpowicz) writes: : : I doubt if powdered aluminum can be easily made (i.e. powdered fine enough : to ignite with an oxidizer). I would try powdered "silver" paints, they : are supposedly aluminum. It can be ground, it is just not worth the effort. Bill From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Sun Dec 5 11:59:54 EST 1993 Article: 2897 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Making Powdered Aluminum Message-ID: <1993Dec4.072745.3027@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: <1993Dec2.150354.28349@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 07:27:45 GMT Lines: 42 johnb@sgi.dev.cdx.mot.com (John Bottoms) writes: : Please do not attempt to make powdered aluminum in your home. Powdered : aluminum is highly explosive, exploding without even a containment wrapper. : It has about 3 times the specific impulse of dynamite. If you are interested : in safe techniques for handling manufacturED materials, contact the people : at rec.pyrotechnics. Powdered aluminum is blued to prevent it from oxidizing : and is referred to as german silver or flash powder. Graunulated aluminum : is much safer but still NOT something you want to use in a model rocket. Bullshit - to put it politely. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It is easy to grind your own aluminum - and safe. The problem is that it oxidizes rather badly if you use a grinder. It can be done with a file, but is very slow. There is no way that homemade powder is going to be hazardous - you cannot make it fine enough. As long as it is not mixed with an oxidizer, you would be lucky to get it to burn. Powdered aluminum is not "blued". There are two basic types of aluminum - atomized and milled. The atomized is somewhat spherical, the milled is fairly flat, and is often called "flake". Both forms form aluminum oxide on the surface, which prevents further oxidation. This happens to all aluminum as soon as it is exposed to oxygen or water. German silver is an alloy of copper, zinc and nickel - it is also called nickel silver. Flash powder is a mixture of powdered aluminum and an oxidizer - usually potassium perchlorate - although other oxidizers also work quite well. The "dark" aluminums are that way due to their method of manufacture. The aluminum is placed between sheets of paper, then milled. After milling, the paper is charred - and not removed. This gives it the characteristic almost black color. Note that the US government, which tends to be overreactive about chemicals, rate powdered aluminum as a flammable solid, not as an explosive. Yes, I am a pyrotechnician. I also post frequently to rec.pyrotechnics. Bill From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Sun Dec 5 11:59:54 EST 1993 Article: 2898 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Making Powdered Aluminum Message-ID: <1993Dec4.073147.3422@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 07:31:47 GMT Lines: 13 jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) writes: : : Time out!! Powdered aluminum, even dark german pyro grade, is : not explosive or reactive in any way (except for the possiblilty : of dust explosions - see recent threads on these in rec.woodworking : and rec.pyrotechnics). It was commonly used as a pigment in bronzing Not quite true. Mix it with water, and it steals the oxygen, releasing hydrogen gas and heat. ... deleted ... Bill From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!emory!rsiatl!jgd Sun Dec 5 11:59:55 EST 1993 Article: 2899 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: <97k2s1j@dixie.com> Date: Sat, 04 Dec 93 06:32:37 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <1993Dec2.135829.18886@uicc.com> Lines: 29 neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) writes: > As I understand it, hydrogen is a real SOB to store; atoms are >so small they sneak through seals, threads, and such. The only way to >make it stay put is to bind it with some other element, like oxygen, >and that brings us right back to water. Not really. Even though the hydrogen atom is the smallest, that it is diatomic means the molecule is too large to diffuse to any great degree. Now helium, that's another matter. At my welding supply store we DID have to watch the shelf-life of our helium cylinders in order to minimize diffusion loss. The reason one would want to use a H/O generator is simple. The machine capable of running a jewelry-sized torch is scarcely larger than a small toolbox and is easily carried in one hand. With the machine, one does not have to lug a couple of cylinders around, doesn't have to buy or lease them, doesn't have to hassle with driving to the welding store for refills and there is no worry of running out in the middle of a job. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC | For a free sample magazine, send Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | a digest-size 52 cent SASE Marietta, Ga "Love America" | (Domestic) to PO Box 669728 jgd@dixie.com "Hate its government" | Marietta, GA 30066 Email to me may be published at my sole discretion. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!ogicse!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!news.csos.orst.edu!CSOS.ORST.EDU!cannoys Sun Dec 5 11:59:56 EST 1993 Article: 2900 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!ogicse!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!news.csos.orst.edu!CSOS.ORST.EDU!cannoys From: cannoys@CSOS.ORST.EDU (Scott Cannoy) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Arc Welding Glass Shades Message-ID: <2dmg42$jfn@jadzia.CSOS.ORST.EDU> Date: 3 Dec 93 04:42:42 GMT Article-I.D.: jadzia.2dmg42$jfn References: Distribution: usa Organization: CS Outreach Services, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR, USA Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: csos.orst.edu In article , Dion Hollenbeck wrote: >I have a MIG welder and find that although I can see right where I am >welding, I have a hard time seeing "the lay of the land" and where I >am going or have come from. I am currently using a shade 10 arc >welding glass in my helmet. > >I have been told that the glass itself, regardless of shade, will >filter out the harmful UV, and all the darkness does is keep you from >"seeing stars". Can I go to a shade 9 or 8 and still be safe and see >better as well? If you are using the smaller diameter MIG wires (.023-.030) going to the lighter shade will probably help. I wouldn't go any lighter than a #8. Shade #10 is "average" lens used for most welding processes, but can be adjusted up or down accoring to operator preference (comfort?). Scott Cannoy From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!ogicse!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!news.csos.orst.edu!CSOS.ORST.EDU!cannoys Sun Dec 5 11:59:57 EST 1993 Article: 2901 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!ogicse!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!news.csos.orst.edu!CSOS.ORST.EDU!cannoys From: cannoys@CSOS.ORST.EDU (Scott Cannoy) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: <2dp5vr$13q@jadzia.CSOS.ORST.EDU> Date: 4 Dec 93 05:08:11 GMT Article-I.D.: jadzia.2dp5vr$13q References: <1993Dec2.135829.18886@uicc.com> Organization: CS Outreach Services, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR, USA Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Host: csos.orst.edu In article , Neil R. Marsh wrote: > >In article <1993Dec2.135829.18886@uicc.com> neidorff@uicc.com writes: > >> >> I guess all of this H2O stuff has got me thinking. >> >> Wouldn't it be cheaper to use a normal oxy-acetylene torch on an >> Oxygen and a Hydrogen bottle? Hydrogen can't be as expensive or > > As I understand it, hydrogen is a real SOB to store; atoms are >so small they sneak through seals, threads, and such. The only way to >make it stay put is to bind it with some other element, like oxygen, >and that brings us right back to water. > >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA Hydrogen is stored the same way as compressed oxygen. Many Jewelers, glass workers, and plastics people use Oxy/hydrogen flame for their work because of the cleanliness (no stray carbon particles to mess up their work). Contact your local welding supply house about using your existing oxy/acety torch with hydrogen as a fuel gas. I know with Victor Equipment you are able to use the same tips for both fuels. You will have to buy a regulator for hydrogen, as the one you use now for acetylene will not handle the 2000psig that hydrogen is stored at. Scott From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!bluesky!steve Sun Dec 5 11:59:57 EST 1993 Article: 2902 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!bluesky!steve From: steve@bluesky.com (Steve Hampson) Subject: Re: Arc Welding Glass Shades Message-ID: <1993Dec3.195844.14522@bluesky.com> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 19:58:44 GMT Distribution: usa References: Organization: Blue Sky Research Lines: 44 In article hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: >I have a MIG welder and find that although I can see right where I am >welding, I have a hard time seeing "the lay of the land" and where I >am going or have come from. I am currently using a shade 10 arc >welding glass in my helmet. I have thought of using extremely bright >lights in my welding area (halogen bulbed goose neck lamps to be >exact), but this introduces more stuff getting in the way. > >I have been told that the glass itself, regardless of shade, will >filter out the harmful UV, and all the darkness does is keep you from >"seeing stars". Can I go to a shade 9 or 8 and still be safe and see >better as well? > >Anybody have any other ideas? If you see spots after a few seconds of welding, you should move up to the next shade. If your eyes are more sensitive than average you may need a darker shade. When I took a welding class I found myself using an 11 when others were using a 10. Also, a large window helmet with a gold filter helps a lot! The gold plastic filter changes the color of the arc and adds contrast. The new electronic helmets are very nice. The filter is somewhat more transparent until the arc hits it, causing it to darken. Some will vary the amount of darkening. They are very nice for delicate TIG welding, but they cost about $200. You are right though -- it is dark. I found that after some practice I could do a good job. Using a light or working in bright sunlight helps. Get your bearings before you drop your hood. Learn to drop the hood with a nod of your head instead of using your hand. This way you can position both hands with the helmet up and you can strike the arc in the correct place. Sometimes I will make marks with soap stone to indicate where I want to stop. I can usually see these while welding. Use the edge of your welding table or another piece of steel to guide your hands. When using a cutting torch I will often make a line of punch marks to follow. Good luck! -- Steve Hampson 503 222 9571 Blue Sky Research 800 622 8398 534 SW 3rd Avenue fax 503 222 1643 Portland, OR 97204 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!deimos.caltech.edu!djt Sun Dec 5 11:59:58 EST 1993 Article: 2903 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!deimos.caltech.edu!djt From: djt@deimos.caltech.edu (David Thompson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re:Making Powdered Aluminum Date: 4 Dec 1993 12:52 PST Organization: California Institute of Technology Lines: 7 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4DEC199312522279@deimos.caltech.edu> References: <1993Dec1.123927.1@engvms.unl.edu> <1993Dec2.150354.28349@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deimos.caltech.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 I recall reading somewhere (I think that it was in Scientific American, though I do not recall when other than some years ago in the "Amateur Scientist" section) about a homemade rocket powered by powdered zinc and sulphur. Cheers, Dave Thompson djt@deimos.caltech.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu!sidd Sun Dec 5 11:59:59 EST 1993 Article: 2904 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu!sidd From: sidd@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: <1993Dec4.135221.3662@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 4 Dec 93 13:52:21 -0500 References: <1993Nov30.074025.2985@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> <2dggrl$pia@usenet.rpi.edu> <2dhc0k$pt6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics Lines: 17 In article , moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > I've heard of an interesting variation on an H2/O2 torch. In this torch the > H2 is passed through an electric arc converting it into atomic hydrogen (H). > This is burned with the O2, and the heat of combustion of atomic hydrogen > is much higher than that molecular hydrogen, and the torch is rather hotter > than oxyacetylene. > > (instead of 2H2 + O2 = 2H2O the reaction is 4H + O2 = 2H2O) > > -Mike I have seen this referred to (in VERY old chemistry textbooks) as "Langmuir's atomic hydrogen blowtorch" -- I'll try to dig up the reference if anyone is interested. I seem to remember that the arc was struck between carbon electrodes and the arrangement gave temperatures in excess of 2000 C Sidd From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu!sidd Sun Dec 5 11:59:59 EST 1993 Article: 2905 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu!sidd From: sidd@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: <1993Dec4.135657.3663@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 4 Dec 93 13:56:57 -0500 References: <1993Dec2.135829.18886@uicc.com> Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics Lines: 25 In article , neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) writes: > > In article <1993Dec2.135829.18886@uicc.com> neidorff@uicc.com writes: > >> >> I guess all of this H2O stuff has got me thinking. >> >> Wouldn't it be cheaper to use a normal oxy-acetylene torch on an >> Oxygen and a Hydrogen bottle? Hydrogen can't be as expensive or > > As I understand it, hydrogen is a real SOB to store; atoms are > so small they sneak through seals, threads, and such. The only way to > make it stay put is to bind it with some other element, like oxygen, > and that brings us right back to water. > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA Does the hydrogen stored in hi-pressure tanks gradually seep out ? We use these tanks in the lab sometimes. Do I have to worry about pressure loss and what is the time scale over which such a loss would occur ? Sidd From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!fsbgf Sun Dec 5 12:00:00 EST 1993 Article: 2906 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!fsbgf From: fsbgf@aurora.alaska.edu Subject: Re: Re: Making Powdered Aluminum Message-ID: <1993Dec4.140446.1@aurora.alaska.edu> Lines: 16 Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: aurora.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks References: <1993Dec1.123927.1@engvms.unl.edu> <1993Dec2.150354.28349@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com> <4DEC199312522279@deimos.caltech.edu> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 23:04:46 GMT In article <4DEC199312522279@deimos.caltech.edu>, djt@deimos.caltech.edu (David Thompson) writes: > I recall reading somewhere (I think that it was in Scientific > American, though I do not recall when other than some years ago in the > "Amateur Scientist" section) about a homemade rocket powered by powdered > zinc and sulphur. > > Cheers, > Dave Thompson djt@deimos.caltech.edu I have a friend who used to build rockets this way. He made one that went over five miles up and had the Air Force came ask him some questions cause it came down near the Hanford nuclear reactor. He machined the nozzles from a block of graphite...Sounds like good fun! This was a number of years ago. Brandon France From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!panix!not-for-mail Sun Dec 5 12:00:01 EST 1993 Article: 2907 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!panix!not-for-mail From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Source for Hollow Metal Spheres? Date: 4 Dec 1993 20:46:08 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 9 Message-ID: <2dreh0$27t@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com Does anyone have a source for hollow metal spheres around an inch or so in diameter? I'm thinking of spun or machined aluminum though other metals, plastics or composites would also be fine. -- Len Moskowitz moskowit@panix.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!richard Sun Dec 5 12:00:02 EST 1993 Article: 2908 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!richard From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Subject: Re: Post vises Message-ID: <1993Dec4.222802.21956@pegasus.com> Organization: Pegasus, Honolulu References: <1993Dec2.193728.490@emuvax.emich.edu> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 93 22:28:02 GMT Lines: 8 >Post vises, I love em. > What is a `post vise'? -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Sun Dec 5 20:40:24 EST 1993 Article: 2909 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: Really small compressors Message-ID: <1993Dec5.175410.20825@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 26 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: <1993Dec2.155843.28523@hemlock.cray.com> Distribution: na Date: 5 Dec 93 17:54:10 CST Tim Kirby (Me!) (trk@hemlock.cray.com) wrote: : Bob Maccione (bmaccion@promus.com) wrote: : : I'm looking for the smallest usable compressor for... : : I have no idea on the requirement for sandblasting; I'm guessing that it is : not that much worse than painting (stands back and waits for a wave of : "no, no, you fool, sandblasting and painting are worst of all...) And of course have been corrected already. Let me forestall any more by "genericizing" (?!) my response to "go and look at the sort of tools you think you may use and look up their requirements". Don't forget that you need to find out how many SCFM you need *at what pressure*. Also remember that the quoted numbers appear (by my experience) to be optimistic. I gather a sandblaster may call for 20 (or more) SCFM (unknown pressure requirement) Sorry for the misinformation. At least I was honest about not knowing before I gave it :-) *sigh*... Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf Mon Dec 6 09:45:54 EST 1993 Article: 2910 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf From: jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Organization: Control Data Systems Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 01:33:27 GMT Message-ID: References: <1993Dec2.135829.18886@uicc.com> <97k2s1j@dixie.com> Sender: usenet@cdsmail.cdc.com (News Poster) Lines: 29 In article <97k2s1j@dixie.com>, jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes: |> neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) writes: |> |> > As I understand it, hydrogen is a real SOB to store; atoms are |> >so small they sneak through seals, threads, and such. The only way to |> >make it stay put is to bind it with some other element, like oxygen, |> >and that brings us right back to water. |> |> Not really. Even though the hydrogen atom is the smallest, that it |> is diatomic means the molecule is too large to diffuse to any |> great degree. Now helium, that's another matter. At my welding |> supply store we DID have to watch the shelf-life of our helium |> cylinders in order to minimize diffusion loss. |> |> The reason one would want to use a H/O generator is simple. The |> machine capable of running a jewelry-sized torch is scarcely larger |> than a small toolbox and is easily carried in one hand. With the |> machine, one does not have to lug a couple of cylinders around, |> doesn't have to buy or lease them, doesn't have to hassle with |> driving to the welding store for refills and there is no worry of |> running out in the middle of a job. |> |> John |> Would something like the "Little Torch" mentioned recently be suitable for running on H2/O2? I called Smith and found that the place I get my tanks from handles them, though I haven't had the time to get over there and take a look at one. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail Mon Dec 6 09:45:56 EST 1993 Article: 2911 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ Update: Small Parts Tel. # Date: 5 Dec 1993 22:14:29 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 8 Message-ID: <2du82l$l3e@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com The telephone number for Small Parts in the FAQ is wrong. It's: 305-557-8222. -- Len Moskowitz moskowit@panix.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!prism!gt0035b Mon Dec 6 09:45:57 EST 1993 Article: 2912 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!prism!gt0035b From: gt0035b@prism.gatech.EDU (Henry Sommer) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Arc Welding Glass Shades Message-ID: <127046@hydra.gatech.EDU> Date: 6 Dec 93 04:47:08 GMT References: <1993Dec3.195844.14522@bluesky.com> Sender: news@prism.gatech.EDU Distribution: usa Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Lines: 15 I've heard that those majic helmets the ones that darken when the arc starts don't allways draken fast enogh or dark enough. I've heard of poeple that spent all day weldinga ll their life complaining about eye burna fter using them. They also had troble with the bateries dieng down. Does anyone out there have simaler stories. If you get a good light to shine on the peice it will be one of the biggest helps in the world. There is no way to weld is you can't see. I can't do anything without a helmet because i just plain can't see what I'm doing. The only problem from a bright light is when it reflects in your lens. -- Henry Sommer Mechanical Engineering student gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu Georgia Institute of Technology From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!jaz0 Mon Dec 6 09:45:59 EST 1993 Article: 2913 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!jaz0 From: jaz0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH A. ZELINSKI) Subject: Diamond Bandsaw Blades Message-ID: <1993Dec6.044627.89574@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 04:46:27 GMT Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 11 To John De Armond, WD4OQC: Would you kindly post the name(s) of the mfgr. or distributor of the Stainless backed diamond bandsaw blades you referred to in your earlier posting? I would find such a blade very useful -*especially*- at the price you mentioned. I have used steel disc type diamond saws (14" dia. @ 3450 rpm) to cut a wide variety of unusual materials, such as alumina , zirconia, and quartz . Certainly glass would be cut with ease with a bandsaw blade of the type you describe. Please don't leave us all in suspense! Cheers, Joe. Joe Zelinski jaz0@lehigh.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!prism!gt0035b Mon Dec 6 09:46:00 EST 1993 Article: 2914 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!prism!gt0035b From: gt0035b@prism.gatech.EDU (Henry Sommer) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: weld preps Message-ID: <127053@hydra.gatech.EDU> Date: 6 Dec 93 05:59:25 GMT Sender: news@prism.gatech.EDU Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Lines: 13 What does the net recamend for weld preperation and cleaning. Right now I'm using paint thinner which I don't like. My welding techer recamended just plain old laundry detergent for getting the deseil fuel they coat steel with off but I'm wondering how much residue that would leave behind. Would something like Simple Green work better? It doesn't leave anything behind on glass. thanks -- Henry Sommer Mechanical Engineering student gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu Georgia Institute of Technology From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!taco!npstewar Mon Dec 6 09:46:01 EST 1993 Article: 2915 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!taco!npstewar From: npstewar@eos.ncsu.edu (NATHAN PHILLIP STEWART) Subject: Re: FAQ part 1 of 4 Message-ID: <1993Dec6.082211.7873@ncsu.edu> Keywords: FAQ Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System) Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos References: <1993Dec1.092542.1011@roper.uwyo.edu> Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 08:22:11 GMT Lines: 25 In article <1993Dec1.092542.1011@roper.uwyo.edu> jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) writes: >This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four >pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed >by some news systems. This is part 1 of 4. >The questions being answered in part 1: > >6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? >7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? > >The questions being answered in part 2: > >8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? >9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? >10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? Did I miss it, or does part 1 say that raw materials are handled in part 2, and part 2 says they are covered in part 1? That's the one thing I just subscribed for and they don't want to tell me either! ;-) I have been running into trouble finding sheet aluminum in small quantities of small sizes (like say 8" x 12" x .09" - 2 or 3 pieces at a time). Forgive me for asking an FAQ, but if you promise to answer it and leave it out, it's fair game, right? (For those interested it's for a chassis for electronics projects.) Nate From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!kksys.com!edgar!technix!mishima!tomg Mon Dec 6 09:46:02 EST 1993 Article: 2916 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.collecting,rec.arts.bodyart,rec.antiques Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!kksys.com!edgar!technix!mishima!tomg From: tomg@mishima.mn.org (Thomas Greenwalt) Subject: RFD: rec.crafts.lapidary Message-ID: Followup-To: news.groups Organization: Alternate Realities X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 04:32:09 GMT Lines: 21 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.misc:2570 rec.crafts.metalworking:2916 rec.collecting:17211 rec.arts.bodyart:9671 rec.antiques:4137 I'd like to see a 'rec.crafts.lapidary' newgroup created, so I'm trying find out if there would enough interest to try for a vote. Basically this would be an unmoderated newsgroup for the discussion of gems, gemcutting, jewelry, jewelry making and related topics (workshops, displays, sources for materials, etc.). I've tryed posting in news.groups with a very limited response, so to broaden the scope I am crossposting this notice in some other groups where jewelers and gem cutters might be hanging out (not they couldn't be hanging out anywhere actually, but I wanted to try for at least vaguely related groups), with followup set to news.groups. Thanks. -- Thomas S. Greenwalt (Tom-Too) tomg@mishima.mn.org 7300 Nicollet Ave. S, Mpls, MN 55423-3121 TomgVR@aol.com *********** Magic isn't something you do, it's something you are. *********** From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!crosfield.co.uk!roe Mon Dec 6 09:46:04 EST 1993 Article: 2917 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!crosfield.co.uk!roe From: roe@crosfield.co.uk (Malcolm Roe) Subject: Re: Source for Hollow Metal Spheres? Message-ID: <1993Dec6.105300.5991@crosfield.co.uk> Organization: Crosfield, Hemel Hempstead, UK References: <2dreh0$27t@panix.com> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 10:53:00 GMT Lines: 13 In article <2dreh0$27t@panix.com> moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz) writes: > >Does anyone have a source for hollow metal spheres around an inch or so >in diameter? I'm thinking of spun or machined aluminum though other >metals, plastics or composites would also be fine. Table tennis balls? -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 4104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news Mon Dec 6 09:46:05 EST 1993 Article: 2918 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re:Making Powdered Aluminum Date: 6 Dec 1993 13:21:21 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2dvbkh$g89@oak.oakland.edu> References: <4DEC199312522279@deimos.caltech.edu> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article 4DEC199312522279@deimos.caltech.edu, djt@deimos.caltech.edu (David Thompson) writes: > I recall reading somewhere (I think that it was in Scientific >American, though I do not recall when other than some years ago in the >"Amateur Scientist" section) about a homemade rocket powered by powdered >zinc and sulphur. > Yes, it was in the Amateur Scientist column, and was reprinted in the book of the same name published by SciAm- a copy of which I treasure. A friend and I made a a ZnS rocket in the 6th grade, and amazingly enough lived to talk about it- probably as we used a non-metallic casing! --mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers Tue Dec 7 09:17:40 EST 1993 Article: 2919 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers From: handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (Howard Anders) Subject: Re: Welding Helmets Message-ID: <1993Dec7.042314.17100@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia References: Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 04:23:14 GMT Lines: 9 I would like to agree with the use of the automatic welding helmets. I have had an Esab Autorama for a couple of years & I think its the best welding investment I have made so far. It is VERY convenient, to be able to see exactly where you are just as you are about to strike the arc!! The only slight drawback I have found, is that the non-darkened state is about a shade 4 - 5 i.e. about the same as gas welding goggles, i.e. it is not completely clear, so if you are welding inside you need fairly strong room lighting or its a bit hard to see clearly, but in daylight its fine. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!casc.math.uh.edu!mcbryde Tue Dec 7 09:17:41 EST 1993 Article: 2920 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!casc.math.uh.edu!mcbryde From: mcbryde@casc.math.uh.edu (Jack Mcbryde) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Subject: Making wooden balls? Date: 7 Dec 1993 04:59:23 GMT Organization: UH Dept of Math Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2e12jb$f65@menudo.uh.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: casc.math.uh.edu Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:2920 rec.woodworking:27978 I'm wondering if there is a relatively easy way to make wooden balls. I want at least several hundred, say 1/2", wooden balls made out of various exotics hardwoods. (This precludes me from just buying them from some mail order place.) While cost is a factor, it's not really that major of a factor. The idea of spending a thousand dollars or so is not horrific. So far the best idea I've managed to come up with is a metal lathe with a specially made cutter to cut them. Is there a special machine around to make such a creature? Or some other cute trick that hasn't crossed my mind? They need to be pretty uniform, so I don't think that any kind of tumbling trick in a container lined with sandpaper is going to do what I want. And I don't have any major problems with fabricating a machine to do what I want as long as it makes the process of making the balls quick and painless. The real size range I'm interested in making is from 4-6mm to 12-16mm. But 10-12mm is an acceptable size range. Oops. I guess I should clarify. The sizes need to be uniform, and I'd like to be able to make, minimally, 10mm balls and 12mm balls. thanks for any ideas, jack -- jack mcbryde@math.uh.edu * All I ask of Thee, Lord * Christ died for our sins. Dare we * Is to be a drinker and fornicator * make his martyrdom meaningless by * An unbeliever and a sodomite * not committing them? - Jules Feiffer * And then to die. - Claude de Chauvigny From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!sgiblab!barrnet.net!nntp.crl.com!crl.crl.com!not-for-mail Tue Dec 7 09:17:41 EST 1993 Article: 2921 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!sgiblab!barrnet.net!nntp.crl.com!crl.crl.com!not-for-mail From: tala@crl.com (Tala Brandeis) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: APT or NCL programmers Date: 6 Dec 1993 22:27:30 -0800 Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access (415) 705-6060 [login: guest] Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2e17oi$mup@crl.crl.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: crl.com Summary: Looking for apt and/or ncl programmers on this newsgroup to share info, stories, problems, solutions. Keywords: APT ansi apt ncl nccs cam cnc cad cae 370apt 360apt numerical control computer aided manufacturing So, are there any APT or NCL programmers here on rec.crafts.metalworking? I'd like to connect with any and all of you and begin to talk about our area of work, our profession. I've been isolated for years in terms of interaction and communication with other manufacturing professionals. Oh, I have one or two friends I can talk to about issues regarding our work, but that is not nearly enough. Seeing as how we are scattered all over the world I thought this would be a logical newsgroup to begin discussion. Tala@crl.com or Tala@joes.garage.com -- | Tala Brandeis | tala@crl.com .com | | 2215-R Market Street | | | Suite 247 | | | San Francisco, CA 94114-1612 | | From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!panix!not-for-mail Tue Dec 7 09:17:42 EST 1993 Article: 2922 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!panix!not-for-mail From: sheba@panix.com (Bathsheba Grossman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: FAQ part 1 of 4 Date: 6 Dec 1993 21:46:23 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 41 Message-ID: <2e0qpv$jce@panix.com> References: <1993Dec1.092542.1011@roper.uwyo.edu> <1993Dec6.082211.7873@ncsu.edu> Keywords: FAQ Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: FAQ part 1 of 4 Summary: Expires: References: <1993Dec1.092542.1011@roper.uwyo.edu> <1993Dec6.082211.7873@ncsu.edu> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Keywords: FAQ Cc: In article <1993Dec6.082211.7873@ncsu.edu>, NATHAN PHILLIP STEWART wrote: >running into trouble finding sheet aluminum in small quantities of small >sizes (like say 8" x 12" x .09" - 2 or 3 pieces at a time). Forgive me for Try Micro-Mark (800) 225 1066 They have miniature tools and things of all kinds, including the Sherline lathe and mill. (In other news, I've been happy with mine, though I'd hesitate to recommend them if you ever make anything bigger than about 5". Biggest beefs: no quill feed on the mill, and no calibrations for tilting the head.) Also, MicroMark has weensy nonferrous tube, rod, and sheet. Everything is sold in small quantities, the prices are not superb but a lot of the stuff can't be found elsewhere, at least by me. They've always given me good service, and have taken stuff back without fussing. I think Small Parts is in the FAQ (MM may be as well, I don't read the whole thing every time), and they would likely have thin-gauge AL sheet as well. With them you have to have a $15 order and do it by mail, but that shouldn't be prohibitive. Both catalogs are great reading B). -Sheba From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news Tue Dec 7 09:17:43 EST 1993 Article: 2923 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Making wooden balls? Date: 7 Dec 1993 13:19:41 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 33 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2e1vtd$pal@oak.oakland.edu> References: <2e12jb$f65@menudo.uh.edu> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article f65@menudo.uh.edu, mcbryde@casc.math.uh.edu (Jack Mcbryde) writes: > >I'm wondering if there is a relatively easy way to make wooden balls. I want >at least several hundred, say 1/2", wooden balls made out of various >exotics hardwoods... Something like this popped up in Fine Woodworking some years ago- you should probably ask the crew in rec.woodworking. However, I recall one solution that was purported to work very well: 1. Cut *cubes* of the desired diameter. This is trivially easy. 2. Set up a belt sander horizontally, and build a bottomless wood box the size of the sanding area on the sander. Attach or suspend it so it sits just above the belt. Something like this: | | | | Box --> | | belt--> --------------------- / \ (0 0) \ / -------------------- Turn on the sander and dump the cubes in the box. The will allegedly turn into balls as the sharp edges sand down quickly. Amazing yet true, claimed the letter writer. No guarentees. ;-) --mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!magnus1!ericm Tue Dec 7 09:17:44 EST 1993 Article: 2924 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!magnus1!ericm From: ericm@magnus1.com (Bulletin board login) Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? Organization: Magnus Online Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 18:01:52 GMT Message-ID: References: <1993Nov30.004403.27993@gallant.apple.com> Lines: 37 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.misc:2575 rec.crafts.metalworking:2924 rec.woodworking:27993 > So, my questions are: > > 1. Does anyone have any experience with any glass cutting band > saws? How fast can they cut and do you find that you use it for > most of your glass cutting or only for those pieces that would be > impossible to do otherwise? > > 2. Does anyone have any experience with any other tools that > could be used to cut glass? Does anyone make glass cutting blades > for larger band saws or scroll saws? > > > -Michael > > Michael Lagae lagae@apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. I am also thinking about purchasing a band saw for cutting glass. I can get a very nice saw for about 300. here in Baltimore. I have talked with serveral people with some of the same concerns that you are expressing. As with any subject you have pro's and cons'. Generally people tell me that it is a very handy too for doing intricate pieces; such as flower peddals. It also reduces the amount of grinding, especially on curved pieces. As for blades for other saws, it wouldn't be very safe. The dust from glass is toxic! Therefore if you grind or saw glass dry, it would be very dange rous. that is why you saw the reservior on the on saw. That is the only way that I would even think of it (wet). Hope this helps. I think it is a good investment if you do a large volume. I have been doing glass for about 8 years now, and just started a business. I should be selling supplies mid '94. ***************** Eric Magsamen ericm@magnus1.com Bel Air, Maryland ***************** From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!koriel!newscast.West.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!youcon!willo Tue Dec 7 22:28:28 EST 1993 Article: 2925 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!koriel!newscast.West.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!youcon!willo From: willo@youcon.Central.Sun.COM (Doug Willoughby Area SE - Midwest Area ) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Sand blasting Date: 7 Dec 1993 14:36:24 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems - Southfield, Michigan Lines: 6 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2e24d8INNst7@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM> Reply-To: willo@youcon.Central.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: youcon.central.sun.com What's the best abrasive to use to in a home type sand blaster to take paint off cast steel? Doug From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!rsiatl!jgd Tue Dec 7 22:28:29 EST 1993 Article: 2926 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Diamond Bandsaw Blades Message-ID: Date: Tue, 07 Dec 93 05:48:28 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <1993Dec6.044627.89574@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Lines: 26 jaz0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH A. ZELINSKI) writes: > To John De Armond, WD4OQC: > Would you kindly post the name(s) of the mfgr. or distributor of the > Stainless backed diamond bandsaw blades you referred to in your earlier > posting? I would find such a blade very useful -*especially*- at the price > you mentioned. Coincidentally I got a flyer from these folks today. Unfortunately there has been a small price increase. The stainless steel blade is now $89.95. The old blade is now $60. The Gryphon-clone saw, the Diamond Laser 1000S (an enhanced version of my saw) is $295. Other than kicking myself for not buying earlier, the blade increase is of no major concern to me since the blade seems to last forever. The company is Stained Glass Workshop in Syosset, NY. 800 669-7151. In NY, 516 496-7593. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC | For a free sample magazine, send Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | a digest-size 52 cent SASE Marietta, Ga "Love America" | (Domestic) to PO Box 669728 jgd@dixie.com "Hate its government" | Marietta, GA 30066 Email to me may be published at my sole discretion. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.cerf.net!nic.cerf.net!jonesm Tue Dec 7 22:28:30 EST 1993 Article: 2927 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.cerf.net!nic.cerf.net!jonesm From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Bearing and Pillow Block (et al) Mail Order Date: 7 Dec 1993 15:59:50 GMT Organization: CERFnet Dial n' CERF Customer Lines: 16 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2e299m$com@news.cerf.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.cerf.net I used to live in urban Los Angeles and now I live in the suburbs and so for the first time I am considering mail order. The current need is for pillow blocks and radial bearings. They will be for 1/4" shanks, and I will be making small orders. I would appreciate recommended suppliers. Also before I moved I was a satisfied (walk in) customer of Enco, but if their mail order is bad, I would like a few alternatives. Please note I already have a lot of catalogs, I am looking for peoples experieces. Thanks to all Matthew Jones jones@io.dsd.litton.com jonesm@cerf.net Is virtual reality really necessary? From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!destroyer!emuvax!lt705_712654 Tue Dec 7 22:28:30 EST 1993 Article: 2928 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!destroyer!emuvax!lt705_712654 From: lt705_712654@emuvax.emich.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Post vises Message-ID: <1993Dec7.125830.504@emuvax.emich.edu> Date: 7 Dec 93 12:58:29 EST References: <1993Dec2.193728.490@emuvax.emich.edu> <1993Dec4.222802.21956@pegasus.com> Summary: news groups Keywords: vise Organization: EASTERN MICHIGAN University Lines: 37 In article <1993Dec4.222802.21956@pegasus.com>, richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes: >>Post vises, I love em. >> > > What is a `post vise'? > > > -- > Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com They answer to "post vise", "blacksmith vise", "arc vise", etc. The construction involves a 3.5 foot long (approx) hunk of iron which acts as the stationary side of the vise. The head of this size is usually four to six inches in width and tapers as it extends to the floor. This piece is mounted to a table or other solid base near the top of the vise. The "post" is fitted into a socket on the ground. The moveable portion of the vise consists of an arm hinged on the stationary part about midway up. The moving part has a head to match the other and tapers to the hinge. The moveable part of the vise is drawn to the stationary arm by means of a large bolt (1 1/4+ in diameter) and the rod used to turn the screw is generally 14" to 16" long. Thus, you can generate mega torque. If you hammer an item that is in the vise, the force of the blow goes into the item and then is transferred to the floor by means of the post (the leg of the vise) The "problem" is the vise pivots on the hinge, so it moves in an arc. This is a problem for holding large objects (maybe...) I heard about one post vise that used chains and two bolts to eliminate this problem, I guess it weighs around 200 lbs. Not very mobile. Supposedly you can buy one out of some catalog for $700ish, but I would look for one at an auction or flea market. Happy Hammering for the Holidays Billy Bob Sheldon From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!isuvax.iastate.edu!TWF99 Tue Dec 7 22:28:31 EST 1993 Article: 2929 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!isuvax.iastate.edu!TWF99 From: twf99@isuvax.iastate.edu Subject: Re: A way to identify aluminum? Message-ID: Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: twf99@isuvax.iastate.edu Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa References: <1993Dec7.103823.1@tntvax.ntrs.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 00:21:41 GMT Lines: 22 In article <1993Dec7.103823.1@tntvax.ntrs.com>, bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com writes: >Subject: An easy way to identify Aluminum? > >Is there an easy way that someone (me in particular) can identify whether a >casting is aluminum (desired) or some other non magnetic metal (not desired). > >I do not have access to a lab, so this would have to be something relatively >safe and simple (if such a process exists). > >Thanks > >Barry. Find the volume and weight of you casting and then calculate the density. Aluninum is appromimently .1 pound per cubic inch. to get volume measure the displacement you get by puting you casting in a water filled container and note the volume "increase". You can check hand books for exact densities of different Alunimum alloys. 2xxx and 7xxx aerospace alloys are of high density because they have about 5 percent copper or zinc in them. But it is not likely that your casting will be of these heat treatable alloys. Dave Smucker (Mechanical Engineering Manager, Flat Rolled Products ALCOA) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john Tue Dec 7 22:28:32 EST 1993 Article: 2930 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john From: john@cirrus.com (John Wishneusky) Subject: Re: Making wooden balls? Message-ID: <1993Dec7.214912.21435@cirrus.com> Sender: news@cirrus.com Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc. Fremont, California References: <2e12jb$f65@menudo.uh.edu> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 21:49:12 GMT Lines: 42 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:2930 rec.woodworking:28030 In article <2e12jb$f65@menudo.uh.edu> mcbryde@casc.math.uh.edu (Jack Mcbryde) writes: > >I'm wondering if there is a relatively easy way to make wooden balls. I want >at least several hundred, say 1/2", wooden balls made out of various >exotics hardwoods. (This precludes me from just buying them from some >mail order place.) While cost is a factor, it's not really that major of >a factor. The idea of spending a thousand dollars or so is not horrific. >So far the best idea I've managed to come up with is a metal lathe with >a specially made cutter to cut them. Is there a special machine around to >make such a creature? Or some other cute trick that hasn't crossed my mind? >They need to be pretty uniform, so I don't think that any kind of tumbling >trick in a container lined with sandpaper is going to do what I want. >And I don't have any major problems with fabricating a machine to do what >I want as long as it makes the process of making the balls quick and >painless. > >The real size range I'm interested in making is from 4-6mm to 12-16mm. But >10-12mm is an acceptable size range. Oops. I guess I should clarify. >The sizes need to be uniform, and I'd like to be able to make, minimally, >10mm balls and 12mm balls. > >thanks for any ideas, >jack >-- >jack mcbryde@math.uh.edu * All I ask of Thee, Lord >* Christ died for our sins. Dare we * Is to be a drinker and fornicator >* make his martyrdom meaningless by * An unbeliever and a sodomite >* not committing them? - Jules Feiffer * And then to die. - Claude de Chauvigny There are sphere turning attachments for metal lathes. I'm not sure about commercial availablity but have seen plans for homemade ones in places like Home Shop Machinist or Projects in Metal. There might be one in one of the Machinist's Bedside Reader series. Fitting one with a cutter better suited to wood turning should give the best combination of precision and finish. The sphere turning attachments I recall seeing have a mechanical (screw) feed for sweeping the cutter. For your wood-turning application, that could be simplified into a handle that'd manually sweep the cutter through it's full arc. John From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!henry.med.uiuc.edu!user Wed Dec 8 10:52:30 EST 1993 Article: 2931 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!henry.med.uiuc.edu!user From: jjhenry@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Henry) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Filtering Compressed Air Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 8 Dec 1993 05:19:45 GMT Organization: Univ. of Illinois Lines: 10 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: henry.med.uiuc.edu To all compressed air users: What do you folks do to filter and/or provide oil lubrication to the compressed air used to drive your air power tools? Is a filter necessary? I suppose there are also times when oil-free air is required for certain chores. Thanks, Metal Meister From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal Wed Dec 8 10:52:31 EST 1993 Article: 2932 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 00:51:46 GMT Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX Lines: 44 In article <2dl3d1INNqc3@oasys.dt.navy.mil> knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ken Knaell) writes: >The thought occurs to use two plastic 1 liter soda bottles to minimize >explosion hazard and to be able to see the water levels. These would >be connected by a water bridge as showen. The electrical current to >stainless steel electrodes could be made through the same metal tubing >used to withdraw the gas. > +V -V > . . > . . > ____. .______ > <- ___ \ / ____ -> > gas \.\ /./ gas > |.| |.| > |.| |.| > /.\ /.\ > / . \ / . \ > | . | | . | > | . ________ . | > | . ________ . | > | - | ^ | - | > \_____/ | \_____/ > | > | > water bridge > >I think 1 liter of water lould supply enough gas for most of my welding >jobs. Just be very wary of the flame front travelling back down the hydrogen hose and down into the bottle. Yes, even with + pressure in the hydrogen side of the system. I found this one out first-hand this past weekend while experimenting with such a contraption (was only using the H2 side of the generator, venting the O2 to the open air). I was using a glass (very f**king stupid) bottle and luckily only the rubber stopper blew out when the thing blew up. It sounded like a gunshot when it went. I had clear plastic tubing from the torch head to the bottle and saw the flame travel down the tube just barely in the nick of time to drop the torch and cover my eyes with my hands (realizing how intensely stupid I was for using a glass vessel at that moment in time). The flame(s at both ends) went out instantly with the explosion. Can you say *enormous_newfound_respect* for H2 gas? Yup? I dunno if there was some O2, regular air, or perhaps some CL2 (from the decomposition of NaCl) in there with the H2 (I didn't purge the air out first, but figured after 30 seconds of electrolysis/good burning at the torch tip, that there was only H2 in there) but something was in there to oxidize the H2. What a wake-up call. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!ugle.unit.no!ole Wed Dec 8 10:52:32 EST 1993 Article: 2933 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!ugle.unit.no!ole From: ole@delab.sintef.no (Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Date: 8 Dec 93 09:48:55 Organization: SINTEF DELAB, Trondheim, Norway. Lines: 64 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: tosca.er.sintef.no In-reply-to: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org's message of Wed, 8 Dec 1993 00:51:46 GMT In article neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) writes: Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: ugle.unit.no!trane.uninett.no!sunic!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 00:51:46 GMT Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX Lines: 44 In article <2dl3d1INNqc3@oasys.dt.navy.mil> knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ken Knaell) writes: >The thought occurs to use two plastic 1 liter soda bottles to minimize >explosion hazard and to be able to see the water levels. These would >be connected by a water bridge as showen. The electrical current to >stainless steel electrodes could be made through the same metal tubing >used to withdraw the gas. > +V -V > . . > . . > ____. .______ > <- ___ \ / ____ -> > gas \.\ /./ gas > |.| |.| > |.| |.| > /.\ /.\ > / . \ / . \ > | . | | . | > | . ________ . | > | . ________ . | > | - | ^ | - | > \_____/ | \_____/ > | > | > water bridge > >I think 1 liter of water lould supply enough gas for most of my welding >jobs. Just be very wary of the flame front travelling back down the hydrogen hose and down into the bottle. Yes, even with + pressure in the hydrogen side of the system. I found this one out first-hand this past weekend while experimenting with such a contraption (was only using the H2 side of the generator, venting the O2 to the open air). I was using a glass (very f**king stupid) bottle and luckily only the rubber stopper blew out when the thing blew up. It sounded like a gunshot when it went. I had clear plastic tubing from the torch head to the bottle and saw the flame travel down the tube just barely in the nick of time to drop the torch and cover my eyes with my hands (realizing how intensely stupid I was for using a glass vessel at that moment in time). The flame(s at both ends) went out instantly with the explosion. Can you say *enormous_newfound_respect* for H2 gas? Yup? I dunno if there was some O2, regular air, or perhaps some CL2 (from the decomposition of NaCl) in there with the H2 (I didn't purge the air out first, but figured after 30 seconds of electrolysis/good burning at the torch tip, that there was only H2 in there) but something was in there to oxidize the H2. What a wake-up call. Don't use NaCl. Use sulphuric acid or NaOH instead. Electrolysis of NaCl will give you chlorine as well. -- Ole-Hj. Kristensen ****************************************************************************** * You cannot consistently believe this sentence. ****************************************************************************** From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Wed Dec 8 10:52:33 EST 1993 Article: 2934 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Date: 8 Dec 1993 09:24:45 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 42 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2e46gt$hq3@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk |> In article neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org |> (Neal Howard) writes: |> It sounded like a gunshot when it went. I had clear plastic tubing |> from the |> torch head to the bottle and saw the flame travel down the tube |> just barely in |> the nick of time to drop the torch and cover my eyes with my hands |> (realizing |> how intensely stupid I was for using a glass vessel at that moment |> in time). |> The flame(s at both ends) went out instantly with the explosion. |> Can you say *enormous_newfound_respect* for H2 gas? Yup? I dunno |> if there was |> some O2, regular air, or perhaps some CL2 (from the decomposition |> of NaCl) |> in there with the H2 (I didn't purge the air out first, but |> figured after |> 30 seconds of electrolysis/good burning at the torch tip, that |> there was only |> H2 in there) but something was in there to oxidize the H2. What a |> wake-up call. |> |> Isn't this a problem with acetylene as well? Hence the one-way "blow-back" valves usually fitted. Speaking to a friend who's an experienced gas welder it seems that backfires are quite common (if extremely startling!). My welding book gives instructions on what to do if the flame gets back to the cylinder! ("Run away" seems like a good idea to me...). I would guess that any H2O2 welder must be built with blow-backs in mind - either strong enough to cope with them, or have some form of blow-back valve to stop the flames. -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!badboy Wed Dec 8 10:52:34 EST 1993 Article: 2935 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!badboy From: badboy@netcom.com (Jay Keller) Subject: Re: Making wooden balls? Message-ID: Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <2e12jb$f65@menudo.uh.edu> <1993Dec7.214912.21435@cirrus.com> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 09:48:23 GMT Lines: 35 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:2935 rec.woodworking:28042 In article <1993Dec7.214912.21435@cirrus.com> john@cirrus.com (John Wishneusky) writes: > >There are sphere turning attachments for metal lathes. I'm not sure >about commercial availablity but have seen plans for homemade ones in >places like Home Shop Machinist or Projects in Metal. There might be >one in one of the Machinist's Bedside Reader series. Fitting one with >a cutter better suited to wood turning should give the best combination >of precision and finish. > >The sphere turning attachments I recall seeing have a mechanical (screw) feed >for sweeping the cutter. For your wood-turning application, that could be >simplified into a handle that'd manually sweep the cutter through it's full >arc. I worked on a metal lathe for a few months once, at a winery where we made our own stainless steel wine tanks and winery equipment. I turned a lot of ball-ended stainless steel pressure screws with a sphere-turning attachment. It was expensive, but fairly simple. A large rigid plate held a pivot and a C-frame held the cutter. The axis of rotation of the C-frame would be set up to intersect the spinning axis of the workpiece and perpendicular to it. A long metal handle was used to actually rotate the C-frame and the cutter, feeding it in gradually to finally get a sphere. Of course you had to have a stem on it, which needed to be cut first. The smaller the stem the more of a sphere you could make. We weren;t trying to make full spheres, just ball ends, about 270 degrees or so with a fairly beefy stem (I started with 1-1/4 SS bolts). Anyway, the jig is simple and for wood it could be easily made without needing the tremendous strength the metal-cutting version needed. Sorry I don't do ascii art worth a damn... Jay Keller Sunnyvale, California From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!col.hp.com!howardr Wed Dec 8 10:52:35 EST 1993 Article: 2936 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!col.hp.com!howardr From: howardr@col.hp.com (Howard Rebel) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Filtering Compressed Air Date: 8 Dec 1993 11:02:10 GMT Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division Lines: 22 Message-ID: <2e4c7i$dii@hp-col.col.hp.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsdrq7.col.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0.7] I put a few drops of oil into the air input of each tool prior to use. A few tools have oil holes which I service too. When painting I use a commerical filter. I do not recall the make but is is about 8 inches tall a I do not recall the make and uses a brownish paper cartridge. Jonathan Henry (jjhenry@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote: : To all compressed air users: : What do you folks do to filter and/or provide oil lubrication to the : compressed air used to drive your air power tools? Is a filter necessary? : I suppose there are also times when oil-free air is required for certain : chores. : Thanks, : Metal Meister -- Howard Rebel howardr@col.hp.com FAX: 719-590-5701 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce Wed Dec 8 10:52:36 EST 1993 Article: 2937 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce From: powers@cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Subject: Re: Making wooden balls? Date: 8 Dec 1993 07:10:35 -0500 Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science Lines: 18 Message-ID: <2e4g7rINNi1e@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu> References: <2e12jb$f65@menudo.uh.edu> <1993Dec7.214912.21435@cirrus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:2937 rec.woodworking:28048 This is getting ridiculous: To make wooden spheres---GET A WOOD LATHE-- Most metal lathes I have seen do not turn fast enough to provide a good surface. To make the sphere you do not need some fancy jig; just take a piece of spring steel and grind the desired sphere cross section into the end then releave the back until you get the proper cutting angle. You now have a lathe tool that can be plunged into the work cutting a sphere. The only problem is to deal with parting. I would suggest that you leave a little wood at the ends, (don't plunge all the way, or design the cutter to not cut it free). So you can sand it while turning and if you are good make a whole string of spheres on a piece before cutting them. After they are cut just touch up the cut ends on a belt sander and you're done. Have you tried rec.crafts.woodworking? Thomas Columbus, OH From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!ucbvax!hplabs!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Thu Dec 9 10:54:23 EST 1993 Article: 2938 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!ucbvax!hplabs!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: <1993Dec9.001831.23373@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Date: 9 Dec 93 00:18:31 GMT References: <2e46gt$hq3@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA Lines: 15 djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) writes: : : I would guess that any H2O2 welder must be built with blow-backs in : mind - either strong enough to cope with them, or have some form of : blow-back valve to stop the flames. >From the illustrations that I have seen, there is no attempt to separate the two gases. It appears that the hydrogen and oxygen never get separated in the first place. I think they rely on the very small tip size to keep the flame from propogating back. It would work on the order of "explosion proof" lamps for mining, which simply have a fine mesh screen over the lamp. Bill From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!ucbvax!hplabs!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Thu Dec 9 10:54:24 EST 1993 Article: 2939 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!ucbvax!hplabs!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Mail Making Message-ID: <1993Dec9.002735.23525@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Date: 9 Dec 93 00:27:35 GMT References: <2e38j0$l1i@cnj.digex.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA Lines: 32 ravenous@cnj.digex.com (Saturnus) writes: : I have been looking long and far for a set of special tools used in the : manufacture of stainless steel ringmail armor. The first tool is called a : cold forge swage. Its use is to stamp or mold a cold piece of metal into a : required form. The other tool has no name (to my knowledge). It looks : similar to a pair of pliers. One side of the plyers has a sharp point and : the other a small hole. When pressed together on a metal ring it pierces : the ring in a fasion that allows a small rivet to be used to close the : link by hand. In my desperation I have looked for the assistance of a : professional smithy, but he found the tools to be too intricate for him to : design from scratch. In the first place, they did not have stainless steel in the middle ages. What's wrong? Can't stand a bit of rust? A problem with stainless steel is that it tends to work harden. This makes it just very difficult, if not impossible, to cold mold. Punching is also a real problem - often you will get a hole started, but cannot open it up without it cracking. Very little of the mail in the middle ages appears to have been riveted. Most seems to have been either butt welded or brazed, if it was not simply butted together. : Can anyone direct me to a source that could either provide me with an : alternative or actualy help me find a retailer that could sell me these : unique tools? Sorry, I cannot help here. Most of the metal workers in the SCA make their own punches. Bill From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!mmm.mmm.com!schwartz Thu Dec 9 10:54:25 EST 1993 Article: 2940 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!mmm.mmm.com!schwartz From: jcschultz@mmm.com (John C. Schultz) Subject: Re: Making wooden balls? Message-ID: In-reply-to: badboy@netcom.com's message of Wed, 8 Dec 1993 09:48:23 GMT Sender: schwartz@mmm.mmm.com (William H. Schwartz) Organization: 3M Company, 3M Center, St. Paul, Minnesota, USA 55144-1000 References: <2e12jb$f65@menudo.uh.edu> <1993Dec7.214912.21435@cirrus.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 04:05:50 GMT Lines: 34 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:2940 rec.woodworking:28115 Sorry if this has been posted already but I just recalled the reference. Fine Woodworking. Sep/Oct 1986, p 76. Turning balls by Ernie Conover. Make a chuck bland to mount directly on the lathe spindle (or a faceplate) and cut out a hole for the desired sized ball. Taper it 2 degrees (i.e. smallest at the opening). Turn a cylinder and mark the pole, equator and end line. Mount cylinder in chuck. (Chalk increases the grip.) Using a gouge, round end from equator to pole without touching equator or pole. Reverse blank, true face, mark new pole and repeat. You now have an oval ball. Remount after rotating 90 degrees, checking the alignment by marking a new pole at the center (which is the old equator) and marking a new equator which must be through the old north and south poles. As the lathe spins, you will see a ghost of a perfect ball. Using a flat tool, correct the shape by halves. To finish, start with 60 or 80 grit paper and change the ball position frequently. Sounds like a lot of work to me. -- John C. Schultz EMAIL: jcschultz@mmm.com 3M Company PHONE: (612) 733-4047 3M Center, Building 235-2F-55 FAX: (612) 737-2700 St. Paul, MN 55144-1000 MEETINGS - a practical alternative to work. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!news.mit.edu!monta Thu Dec 9 10:54:26 EST 1993 Article: 2941 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!news.mit.edu!monta From: monta@image.mit.edu (Peter Monta) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: File hardness, hand scrapers Date: 09 Dec 1993 08:00:35 GMT Organization: MIT Advanced Television Research Program Lines: 33 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: image.mit.edu I've been reading recently about hand scraping and the making of surface plates (in Gingery's books and a few others), so I thought I'd give it a try. I'm having a problem getting good scraping action. The suggestion is to hollow-grind a file to make a scraper. I did this (only at the tip, to about 1cm back), and was careful not to let the area get too hot. The resulting edge takes great effort to push across cold-rolled mild steel, tends to stop and "dig in" slightly, and in general doesn't scrape cleanly or at all deep (it would take forever to scrape down any distance; most of the time the tool looks like it's simply burnishing the work, with zero cutting action). I tried to assess the tool's hardness by filing it with another file. I was able to do so, and there was no damage to the other file. As a control, I filed a tiny section of the unground area (teeth), and did see some mutual damage, so there's a definite difference. Question 1: are files surface-hardened, not hard all the way through? (If so, why is the tang "blued"? A case-hard file would not need an annealed tang.) Question 2: if files are only hard on their surfaces and teeth, are they at least high-carbon steel, so that I could harden completely the top part? Question 3: is there some description of what effective scraping feels like? Is the chip continuous, a tiny ribbon? Does the scraped area have a fine finish? How much is taken off per scrape, approximately? A few microns? Thanks for any hints or references. I've a new respect for large hand-scraped machine tools. Peter Monta monta@image.mit.edu MIT Advanced Television Research Program From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!csd.unb.ca!upei.ca!upei.ca!not-for-mail Thu Dec 9 10:54:27 EST 1993 Article: 2942 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!csd.unb.ca!upei.ca!upei.ca!not-for-mail From: caprukav@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Peter Rukavina) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Source for Sheet Aluminum Date: 8 Dec 1993 10:10:26 -0400 Organization: PEI Crafts Council, Charlottetown, Canada Lines: 25 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2e4n8i$soe@atlas.cs.upei.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cs.upei.ca >subscribed for and they don't want to tell me either! ;-) I have been >running into trouble finding sheet aluminum in small quantities of small >sizes (like say 8" x 12" x .09" - 2 or 3 pieces at a time). Forgive me for >asking an FAQ, but if you promise to answer it and leave it out, it's >fair game, right? (For those interested it's for a chassis for electronics >projects.) Try "Metal Buyers Mart" at 1-800-657-0721. Their tag line is "The big name in small quantities." They advertise .09" aluminum sheet in 12" lengths for $1.03 an inch of width. Their address is: Metal Buyers Mart N 15 W 22218 Watertown Road, Unit #3 Waukesha, WI U.S.A. 53186 Fax: 1-414-547-3860 -- ----------- PETER RUKAVINA * Information Manager * PEI Crafts Council ---------- | Creating a worldwide database of suppliers to the crafts industry? KNOW ANY? | +---- 156 Richmond St., Charlottetown, PEI CANADA C1A 1H9 +1 902 566 1584 ----+ | Me? pete@crafts-council.pe.ca * Information? info@crafts-council.pe.ca | +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Thu Dec 9 10:54:28 EST 1993 Article: 2943 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: File hardness, hand scrapers Date: 9 Dec 1993 08:39:32 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 51 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2e6o84$b1m@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk In article , monta@image.mit.edu (Peter Monta) writes: |> I've been reading recently about hand scraping and the making of |> surface plates (in Gingery's books and a few others), so I thought |> I'd give it a try. I'm having a problem getting good scraping |> action. |> Using files is an excellent idea, but pick a high-quality one. I would pick anything made by a reputable UK company, and I assume that you could find many similar USA ones. DON'T go for the 3rd-world stuff. |> Question 1: are files surface-hardened, not hard all the |> way through? (If so, why is the tang "blued"? A case-hard file would |> not need an annealed tang.) Files are high-carbon steel throughout. your grinding probably softened it. Question 2: if files are only hard on |> their surfaces and teeth, are they at least high-carbon steel, so that |> I could harden completely the top part? |> See previous answer. Be prepared to grind your file to the point where you'd be wanting to finish it with a stone, then heat treat it to a hard temper (light straw colour). When you've finished, then stone it. |> Question 3: is there some description of what effective scraping feels |> like? Is the chip continuous, a tiny ribbon? Does the scraped area |> have a fine finish? How much is taken off per scrape, approximately? |> A few microns? |> Hard to describe - imagine very slight curls. You are only removing a thou maximum if you're doing it right, often less. The important point to remember is that you should have tried to get the surface as flat as possible by other means before you try scraping, e.g. best-quality milling or even surface grinding. Even if you're not trying to get a flat surface, you can get a nice "frosted" finish with a scraper. -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph Thu Dec 9 10:54:29 EST 1993 Article: 2944 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph From: ralph@astro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) Subject: Re: Post vises Message-ID: <1993Dec9.094847.18409@nomina.lu.se> Sender: ralph@astol (Ralph Snel) Nntp-Posting-Host: nastol.astro.lu.se Organization: Lund Observatory References: <1993Dec7.125830.504@emuvax.emich.edu> <1993Dec8.170646.22246@news.duc.auburn.edu> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 09:48:47 GMT Lines: 20 In article <1993Dec8.170646.22246@news.duc.auburn.edu>, bailebn@mail.auburn.edu (Bliss Bailey) writes: [...text hammered away...] > Incidentally, I got my vise at the Alabama Forge Council's annual meeting at > Tannehill State park near Birmingham, Alabama,for about $50.00. It has 4" jaws, > is heavily built, and is in very good condition. The thing to watch for when > buying one used is wear on the screw. Too much wear will allow slippage. > I bought mine at a flea market for the equivalent of $15. I think the jaws are 6" or 8". I figure it weighs about 60 pounds. It's quite rusty (but who cares?) and all the movable parts move. The only problem is the spring that's supposed to push the vice open: it's quite loose and doesn't do what it's supposed to (or am I misinterpreting its use?). Any suggestions/warnings before I start using it (whenever I get time to do so, and coal, and the steel I want, and...)? I was thinking of casting the bottom in a block of luggable concrete, somewhere around 100 pounds or more. Ralph ralph@astro.lu.se From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Thu Dec 9 10:54:31 EST 1993 Article: 2945 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: File hardness, hand scrapers Date: 9 Dec 1993 12:55:19 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 38 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2e777n$4ht@oak.oakland.edu> References: Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article 93Dec9030037@image.mit.edu, monta@image.mit.edu (Peter Monta) writes: >I've been reading recently about hand scraping and the making of >surface plates (in Gingery's books and a few others), so I thought >I'd give it a try. I'm having a problem getting good scraping action. > >The suggestion is to hollow-grind a file to make a scraper. I did >this (only at the tip, to about 1cm back), and was careful not to let >the area get too hot. The resulting edge takes great effort to push >across cold-rolled mild steel, tends to stop and "dig in" slightly, This seems to indicate that perhaps your cutting edge isn't straight. >and in general doesn't scrape cleanly or at all deep (it would take >forever to scrape down any distance; most of the time the tool looks >like it's simply burnishing the work, with zero cutting action). Don't expect to cut deep. A scraper is for trimming a few tenths at a time. ... > >Question 3: is there some description of what effective scraping feels >like? Is the chip continuous, a tiny ribbon? No. It takes off fine chips. >... Does the scraped area >have a fine finish? Mmm. It's not a *polished* finish, if that's what you mean. Kitts tools seels a nice assortment of scrapers at $1.89 each. Can't beat 'em, really. Therey also sell an assortment of 5 (I think) at a slightly reduced price. --mike From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!dunix.drake.edu!acad.drake.edu!rtl002 Thu Dec 9 10:54:32 EST 1993 Article: 2946 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!dunix.drake.edu!acad.drake.edu!rtl002 From: rtl002@acad.drake.edu Subject: Metalsmith Magazine phone # Message-ID: <1993Dec9.081653.1@acad.drake.edu> Lines: 4 Sender: news@dunix.drake.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: acad.drake.edu Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 14:16:53 GMT Does anybody have the phone number for Metalsmith Magazine? preferably subscriptions From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws Wed Dec 15 12:11:08 EST 1993 Article: 2947 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws From: jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) Subject: Re: Mail Making References: <2e38j0$l1i@cnj.digex.com> <1993Dec9.002735.23525@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 15:43:34 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: billy.mlb.semi.harris.com Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL Sender: news@mlb.semi.harris.com Message-ID: <1993Dec9.154334.16919@mlb.semi.harris.com> Lines: 13 Stainless steel welding rod is more ductile and brighter than the SS rod stock I get at the metals/welding place. You can use a MIG with small SS wire to join the ends leaving a very small bead, probably no bigger than a rivet head. I have done so in making some custom lamp shades. You could also try gas welding using the same MIG wire as filler. If you have the touch, that might leave even less of a noticeable joint. There's always touchup with a grinder if you go a little overboard, but for mail that might end up taking more time than you want. -- ########################################################################## #Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons # #living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-# #sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!# From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!hobbes.cc.uga.edu!aisun3.ai.uga.edu!mcovingt Wed Dec 15 12:11:09 EST 1993 Article: 2948 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!hobbes.cc.uga.edu!aisun3.ai.uga.edu!mcovingt From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Arc Welding Glass Shades Date: 10 Dec 1993 04:42:01 GMT Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens Lines: 10 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2e8ump$nhm@hobbes.cc.uga.edu> References: <1993Dec3.195844.14522@bluesky.com> <127046@hydra.gatech.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: aisun3.ai.uga.edu If you want a really bright light on your work, you might try using photoflood bulbs, available at camera stores. They're cheap and fit ordinary sockets (which should be ceramic for heatproofing). The life of a bulb is about 6 hours. -- < Michael A. Covington, Assc Rsch Scientist, Artificial Intelligence Programs > < The University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30606-7415 USA mcovingt@ai.uga.edu > <>< ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ><> < For info about U.Ga. degree programs, email GRADADM@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (not me) > From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!hobbes.cc.uga.edu!aisun3.ai.uga.edu!mcovingt Wed Dec 15 12:11:09 EST 1993 Article: 2950 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!hobbes.cc.uga.edu!aisun3.ai.uga.edu!mcovingt From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Sears drill-bit-grinding jig Date: 10 Dec 1993 04:50:40 GMT Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens Lines: 10 Message-ID: <2e8v70$nro@hobbes.cc.uga.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aisun3.ai.uga.edu Can anyone tell me how to use the Sears drill-bit-grinding jig? My father- in-law gave me one that is 20 years old and has no instructions with it. I looked at a new one (still the same device) in the store today, and even after looking at the instructions it seemed rather cryptic. -- < Michael A. Covington, Assc Rsch Scientist, Artificial Intelligence Programs > < The University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30606-7415 USA mcovingt@ai.uga.edu > <>< ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ><> < For info about U.Ga. degree programs, email GRADADM@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (not me) > From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!casc.math.uh.edu!mcbryde Wed Dec 15 12:11:10 EST 1993 Article: 2951 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!casc.math.uh.edu!mcbryde From: mcbryde@casc.math.uh.edu (Jack Mcbryde) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Arc Welding Glass Shades Date: 10 Dec 1993 05:05:26 GMT Organization: UH Dept of Math Lines: 16 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2e902m$rki@menudo.uh.edu> References: <1993Dec3.195844.14522@bluesky.com> <127046@hydra.gatech.EDU> <2e8ump$nhm@hobbes.cc.uga.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: casc.math.uh.edu In article <2e8ump$nhm@hobbes.cc.uga.edu> mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes: >If you want a really bright light on your work, you might try using >photoflood bulbs, available at camera stores. They're cheap and fit >ordinary sockets (which should be ceramic for heatproofing). >The life of a bulb is about 6 hours. They come in 250 and 500 watt versions. Given a 6 hour life they are a tad on the expensive side. Some of the inexpensive 500 watt halogen lamps (perhaps modified) might be a more inexpensive option in the long run. jack -- jack mcbryde@math.uh.edu * All I ask of Thee, Lord * Christ died for our sins. Dare we * Is to be a drinker and fornicator * make his martyrdom meaningless by * An unbeliever and a sodomite * not committing them? - Jules Feiffer * And then to die. - Claude de Chauvigny From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!srgenprp!news.dtc.hp.com!hplextra!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Wed Dec 15 12:11:12 EST 1993 Article: 2952 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!srgenprp!news.dtc.hp.com!hplextra!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Mail Making Message-ID: <1993Dec10.063854.26094@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: <1993Dec9.002735.23525@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 06:38:54 GMT Lines: 27 I wrote: : Very little of the mail in the middle ages appears to have been riveted. : Most seems to have been either butt welded or brazed, if it was not simply : butted together. I received some e-mail that disagreed with this, so I looked for my references. It appears that I was partly wrong. We do not have any surviving samples of mail from about 1100-1300 BCE. We have to guess, based on earlier and later specimens. The most complete example of Norse mail has interlocking links which overlap but are not rivited. For the Normans, the usual pattern was alternating rows of rivited and butted links. It appears to have been more substantial than that of either the Saxons or the Vikings. Such armor was quite rare, generally worn only by the richer leaders or noblemen. In Norway, it was described as the "clothing/armor of kings". I did some serious digging, in the attempt to find my two primary references, but was unsuccessful. I have had to rely on secondary sources. Bill From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!news.mtholyoke.edu!mhc.mtholyoke.edu!wkaiser Wed Dec 15 12:11:13 EST 1993 Article: 2953 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!news.mtholyoke.edu!mhc.mtholyoke.edu!wkaiser From: wkaiser@MtHolyoke.edu (William F. Kaiser) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: File hardness, hand scrapers Date: 10 Dec 1993 15:19:45 GMT Organization: Mount Holyoke College Lines: 54 Message-ID: <2ea42h$s1e@slab.mtholyoke.edu> References: <2e7pq5$kjj@slab.mtholyoke.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mhc.mtholyoke.edu X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5 Here is information on the book about scraping that I mentioned in a previous post. Machine Tool Reconditioning by Edward F. Connelly 1955, Machine Tool Publications, St. Paul, U.S.A. I have the ninth printing of 1973. Is anyone in the St. Paul area who can find out if this publisher is still in business? Is the book still available? Chapter Titles: page 1 The Art of Scraping 1 2 Personal Requirements 6 3 Characteristics of Metal 8 4 Tools 11 5 The Hand Scraper 18 6 Manipulating the Scraping Tool 28 7 Bench Oilstones 38 8 The Surface Plate 41 9 The Straight Edge 49 10 Marking Mediums 62 11 Markings 73 12 Other Spotting Tools 80 13 Squares 94 14 Levels and Leveling 99 15 Test Bars 109 16 The Dial Indicator 117 17 Gibs: Function, Construction and Adjustment 129 18 Grooves 150 19 Hints on Routine 157 20 Frosting Techniques 164 21 Automatic Generation of Gages 175 22 Standard Tests 185 23 Factors in Reconditioning 199 24 The Surface Bearing Requirements of the Slides and Ways of Precision Grinders 226 25 Problems in Alignments 229 26 The Engine Lathe 256 27 The Horizontal Milling Machine 316 28 The Vertical Milling Machine 393 29 The Cylindrical Grinding Machine 442 30 The Surface Grinding Machine 482 Glossary 519 Index 527 This is a big book, full of theory and practice. It's clearly written and well illustrated. For anyone who wants to build a machine, or resurrect one from the junk yard, this book has what you need to know. Bill Kaiser wkaiser@mhc.mtholyoke.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Wed Dec 15 12:11:14 EST 1993 Article: 2954 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: File hardness, hand scrapers Date: 10 Dec 1993 15:51:51 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2ea5un$3qe@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: <2e7pq5$kjj@slab.mtholyoke.edu> <2ea42h$s1e@slab.mtholyoke.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk In article <2ea42h$s1e@slab.mtholyoke.edu>, wkaiser@MtHolyoke.edu (William F. Kaiser) writes: |> Here is information on the book about scraping that I mentioned in a |> previous post. |> |> Machine Tool Reconditioning |> by Edward F. Connelly |> 1955, Machine Tool Publications, St. Paul, U.S.A. |> I have the ninth printing of 1973. |> |> Is anyone in the St. Paul area who can find out if this publisher is |> still |> in business? Is the book still available? |> I don't know about the USA, but UK readers can get this from Tee Publishing (who do Engineering in Miniature). Be prepared for a *big* price... I want a copy of this book (Dear Santa...) but can't justify the high price to She-who-must-be-obeyed. -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Wed Dec 15 12:11:14 EST 1993 Article: 2955 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: File hardness, hand scrapers Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec10.174944.20558@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <2e7pq5$kjj@slab.mtholyoke.edu> <2ea42h$s1e@slab.mtholyoke.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 12:49:42 -0500 Lines: 22 In article <2ea42h$s1e@slab.mtholyoke.edu>, writes: > Here is information on the book about scraping that I mentioned in a > previous post. > > Machine Tool Reconditioning > by Edward F. Connelly > 1955, Machine Tool Publications, St. Paul, U.S.A. > I have the ninth printing of 1973. > > Is anyone in the St. Paul area who can find out if this publisher is still > in business? Is the book still available? > I bought a copy new 2 years ago. I think Lindsey Publications sells it, and I think I've also seen it advertised in the Home Shop Machinist. I seem to recall it goes for around $35. Sorry I don't have more specifics, all my stuff is at home. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!barrnet.net!parc!richley Wed Dec 15 12:11:15 EST 1993 Article: 2956 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!barrnet.net!parc!richley From: richley@parc.xerox.com (Ed Richley) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: File hardness, hand scrapers Date: 10 Dec 1993 19:27:04 GMT Organization: Xerox Palo Alto Research Center Lines: 7 Message-ID: <2eaii8$hua@news.parc.xerox.com> References: <2e7pq5$kjj@slab.mtholyoke.edu> <2ea42h$s1e@slab.mtholyoke.edu> <1993Dec10.174944.20558@ll.mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deneb.parc.xerox.com Just to add my $.02. "Machine tool reconditioning" is well worth the $35. It goes into painful detail about the process. Somebody really worked their tail off to write it. I highly recommend it. I got mine from Lindsay's, and (as already mentioned) it's advertised by somebody in HSM. Ed Richley richley@parc.xerox.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal Wed Dec 15 12:11:20 EST 1993 Article: 2957 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) Subject: Why my H2 (O2) torch blew. Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 18:43:35 GMT Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX Lines: 20 A couple of days ago I posted to the H2/O2 torch thread about my experience with my homemade H2 (electrolysis of water) torch suffered a minor explosion. Well, I found out why. My good old trusty DC power supply wasn't so trusty after all, one of the diodes in the bridge rectifier must have had high reverse leakage and let a significant amount of AC on the output, therefore giving me some O2 mixed into what I thought was H2 only. I guess that's what let the flame front travel down the hose and into the electrolysis bottle. The diode has now shorted completely and took out a big filter cap with it. If you're running one of these homemade torches, test your DC power supply regularly, it's cheap insurance :-) peace, Neal ========================================================================= Neal Howard neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org CompuTrac,Inc. (Richardson,TX) |355033| Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, not CompuTrac's. DoD #686 "Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, and then perhaps '91 XLH-1200 we shall learn the truth." - August Kekule' in 1890 ========================================================================= From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!stuartf Wed Dec 15 12:11:21 EST 1993 Article: 2958 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!stuartf From: stuartf@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) Subject: Re: File hardness, hand scrapers Message-ID: <1993Dec10.224211.17146@sequent.com> Sender: usenet@sequent.com (usenet ) Nntp-Posting-Host: eng3.sequent.com Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc. References: <2e7pq5$kjj@slab.mtholyoke.edu> <2ea42h$s1e@slab.mtholyoke.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 22:42:11 GMT Lines: 8 In article <2ea42h$s1e@slab.mtholyoke.edu> wkaiser@MtHolyoke.edu (William F. Kaiser) writes: >Machine Tool Reconditioning, by Edward F. Connelly >1955, Machine Tool Publications, St. Paul, U.S.A. >I have the ninth printing of 1973. This books is available from Lindsay Publications, whose address and phone number are in the FAQ. (MTR was listing in their last catalog, which is no guarantee that it will be available in the future.) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!trooa.enet.dec.com!lipinski Wed Dec 15 12:11:22 EST 1993 Article: 2959 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!trooa.enet.dec.com!lipinski From: lipinski@trooa.enet.dec.com (André Lipinski) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Plate Steel Table Base Date: 10 DEC 93 16:28:48 Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 15 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2eaplu$a3b@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: trooa.enet.dec.com Hi all, I have designed a side table that will use a piece of plate steel 1cm thick, and will need to find someone to make it for me. I would like to have it torch cut because the edge will look good with where it's going. However someone told me that torch cutting this stuff will warp it. It's pretty thick! But is this true? And on the side, how can I treat the steel so that it won't rust away without painting it (I want to be able to see the steel colour.) And even more... If there is anybody out there in the Toronto Ontario area who could provide the cut (torch or shear) steel plate, please respond! Thanks, André. (By the way may views, motives and opinions are nobody's, nor Digital's.) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!hamlet.ucdavis.edu!fzstiman Wed Dec 15 12:11:22 EST 1993 Article: 2960 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!hamlet.ucdavis.edu!fzstiman From: fzstiman@hamlet.ucdavis.edu (mwstimmann) Subject: brass for clock project Message-ID: Sender: usenet@ucdavis.edu (News Administrator) Organization: University of California, Davis Distribution: usa Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 22:10:58 GMT Lines: 14 This months issue of Home Shop Machinist begins a series on building a pendulum clock. I called McMurry Metals in Texas as suggested by the article to inquire about buying leaded brass for the project and they sent me a worthless list of brasses 8 feet long. No ordering info and no prices. I'm not about to buy tons of brass to get ounces for a clock. Any one have any suggestions for a source of brass for clock works? mwstimmann@ucdavis.edu Mike Stimmann -- M.W. Stimmann Statewide Pesticide Coordinator From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!paris.ics.uci.edu!ucivax!megatek!hollen Wed Dec 15 12:11:23 EST 1993 Article: 2961 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!paris.ics.uci.edu!ucivax!megatek!hollen From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: weld preps In-Reply-To: gt0035b@prism.gatech.EDU's message of 6 Dec 93 05: 59:25 GMT Message-ID: Sender: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Cc: gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <127053@hydra.gatech.EDU> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 20:33:08 GMT Lines: 26 >>>>> "Henry" == Henry Sommer writes: Henry> What does the net recamend for weld preperation and cleaning. Henry> Right now I'm using paint thinner which I don't like. My welding techer Henry> recamended just plain old laundry detergent for getting the deseil fuel Henry> they coat steel with off but I'm wondering how much residue that would Henry> leave behind. Would something like Simple Green work better? It doesn't Henry> leave anything behind on glass. Henry> thanks Henry> -- Henry> Henry Sommer Mechanical Engineering student Henry> gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu Georgia Institute of Technology Anytime I want to prep steel for any operation requirign clean and dry, I use Berryman's Brake Cleaner. Made for getting rid of grease and oil from brake shoes. Just use the spray to "hose" down the part and let air dry. Do what you want quickly, or steel will rust quite quickly because this removes *every* bit of grease. -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com Senior Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!news.mit.edu!monta Wed Dec 15 12:11:24 EST 1993 Article: 2962 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!news.mit.edu!monta From: monta@solitude.mit.edu (Peter Monta) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: File hardness, hand scrapers Date: 11 Dec 1993 05:11:31 GMT Organization: MIT Advanced Television Research Program Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <2e7pq5$kjj@slab.mtholyoke.edu> <2ea42h$s1e@slab.mtholyoke.edu> <1993Dec10.174944.20558@ll.mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: solitude.mit.edu In-reply-to: Doug White's message of Fri, 10 Dec 93 12:49:42 -0500 Thanks for the useful responses; my strategy now is to 1) order _Machine Tool Reconditioning_ from Lindsay 2) harden my scraper, since I probably softened it in the process of grinding Also, it turns out I did surface grind my plates prior to scraping. The resulting finish is pretty smooth, and I'm thinking to roughen them up a bit to get a better bite, per someone's suggestion. Peter Monta monta@image.mit.edu MIT Advanced Television Research Program From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!sfm1 Wed Dec 15 12:11:25 EST 1993 Article: 2963 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!sfm1 From: sfm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT F. MASTROIANNI) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Mail Making Message-ID: <1993Dec11.183639.64887@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Date: 11 Dec 93 18:36:39 GMT Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 68 In article <1993Dec9.002735.23525@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (b ill nelson) writes: >ravenous@cnj.digex.com (Saturnus) writes: >: I have been looking long and far for a set of special tools used in the >: manufacture of stainless steel ringmail armor. The first tool is called a >: cold forge swage. Its use is to stamp or mold a cold piece of metal into a >: required form. The other tool has no name (to my knowledge). It looks >: similar to a pair of pliers. One side of the plyers has a sharp point and >: the other a small hole. When pressed together on a metal ring it pierces >: the ring in a fasion that allows a small rivet to be used to close the >: link by hand. In my desperation I have looked for the assistance of a >: professional smithy, but he found the tools to be too intricate for him to >: design from scratch. > >In the first place, they did not have stainless steel in the middle ages. >What's wrong? Can't stand a bit of rust? Do you think for one moment that if stainless alloys existed in the middle ages, they wouldn't have found widespread usage in nearly all forms of armor? > >A problem with stainless steel is that it tends to work harden. This makes >it just very difficult, if not impossible, to cold mold. Punching is also >a real problem - often you will get a hole started, but cannot open it up >without it cracking. I have just come back from my shop where I experimented with two types of stainless wire. The first was Tig welding wire, exact alloy unknown, but I used it to make my brazed-ring hauberk. The other wire was 1/16" 316 stainless. I formed both wires into rings that had ends overlapping by 5/16" or so. I then attempted to flatten the overlapped region and widen it enough to accomodate a rivet. Both alloys seemed flatten decently, although without some sort of swage ring to retain their circular shape, I was required to hammer them back into shape. As expected, some work hardening of the hammered regions occurred, but after annealing, these sections could be drilled, but probably not punched to accomodate a rivet. My brief experimentation led me to believe that it may be possible to make a riveted mail out of stainless wire if the wire diameter to ring diameter ratio was high enough, but the process would be far more labor intensive than butting, brazing or welding the rings. If you are trying to make an authentic suit of mail using the authentic methods, then it would probably be well to use authentic materials. If you like the properties of high-tech alloys then why not avail yourself of the modern methods of forming and linking the rings. I'm still fascinated by the idea of a tig-welded titanium suit of mail. > >Very little of the mail in the middle ages appears to have been riveted. >Most seems to have been either butt welded or brazed, if it was not simply >butted together. > >: Can anyone direct me to a source that could either provide me with an >: alternative or actualy help me find a retailer that could sell me these >: unique tools? > >Sorry, I cannot help here. Most of the metal workers in the SCA make their >own punches. I have to concur. Ever since K-mart got rid of it's armory section I've had to make all my own tools. Seriously though, I have read that SCA members frequently use a standard Whitney punch when they make riveted mail. Unless you have some burning desire to use authentic tools, just about any tool catalog (McMaster-Carr, MSC, etc.) should carry these punches. Good luck--chain mail is one of the most beautiful forms of armor to own, especially when you have put hundreds of hours of your own work into it. > >Bill > f s m -- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu!sidd Wed Dec 15 12:11:26 EST 1993 Article: 2964 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu!sidd From: sidd@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: H2O2 welder Message-ID: <1993Dec11.182621.3708@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 11 Dec 93 18:26:21 -0500 References: Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics Lines: 49 > In article <2dl3d1INNqc3@oasys.dt.navy.mil> knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil >(Ken Knaell) writes: > Just be very wary of the flame front travelling back down the hydrogen hose > and down into the bottle. Yes, even with + pressure in the hydrogen side > of the system. I found this one out first-hand this past weekend while > experimenting with such a contraption (was only using the H2 side of the > generator, venting the O2 to the open air). I was using a glass (very f**king > stupid) bottle and luckily only the rubber stopper blew out when the thing > blew up. This isn't exactly rec.crafts.metalworking but did someone say hydrogen explosions ?? thought as much ... I once worked in a physics research lab for a rather nasty professor. We were doing some adsorption studies on exfoliated graphite. In order to get as good a surface as possible the graphite to be cleaned by heating it red hot under a hydrogen atmosphere. There was a rig meant to do just this (safely) in a neighboring lab but we had no access to it that night. This professor (who would sacrifice newborn infants by the light of the full moon to get another paper in the PRL) insisted on getting it done RIGHT NOW (11.30 pm) and proceeded to put together the most godawful cob job I have ever seen in my life. He hooked up a meter long inch and a half dia. glass(!) tube to a regulated hydrogen supply through a 1/4 inch copper tube in a rubber stopper on one end. At the other end of the glass tube, another rubber stopper with the glass part of an eye dropper stuck through it. He now proposed to put the graphite in the tube, flow hydrogen over it and burn the exiting hydrogen as it came out the thin end of the eye dropper, all the while heating the part of the tube with the graphite in it with a propane torch. I said this seemed dangerous. He raved for a while about how he had done this many times before and none of us were leaving until the graphite was clean and the cell loaded ... when I asked why a glass tube replied 'So I can see whats going on, dammit'... He started the procedure, lit the hydrogen flame at the eyedropper, directed a propane torch at the part of the tube with the graphite... I retreated ... he got bored after a while and wandered off leaving the torch on ... the glass of the eyedropper melted enlarging the exit orifice ... the flame blew back into the glass tube exploding it ... clouds of glass and carbon ... propane torch falls over ... causing small fire ... I laugh out loud ... guess who gets to clean up I dont work there anymore. sidd@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!slindsay Wed Dec 15 12:11:27 EST 1993 Article: 2965 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!slindsay From: slindsay@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steve Lindsay) Subject: source for O.K. Oklahoma gold Message-ID: <1993Dec12.135940.16766@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Sun, 12 Dec 93 13:59:40 GMT Lines: 6 Does anyone have a source for O.K. gold (type of brass). I need 1/4" to 1" thick by 1" or 2" by 6" to a foot long. Steve From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cs.ubc.ca!rodb Wed Dec 15 12:11:28 EST 1993 Article: 2966 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cs.ubc.ca!rodb From: rodb@cs.ubc.ca (Rod Barman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Calipers vs. Micrometers Date: 13 Dec 1993 00:16:20 GMT Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada Lines: 15 Message-ID: <2egc8k$ju4@cs.ubc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: swan.cs.ubc.ca I have few questions regarding micrometers and calipers. I understand that micrometers are more accurate than calipers, but I wondering if the electronics now used has changed this to some extent. From what I've seen micrometers are accurate to about one ten-thou and the new digital calipers are rated about the same. Is this true or marketing hype? I interested mostly in automotive rebuilding and I'm wondering if I should buy fancy digital calipers or a set of micrometers. The calipers would be cheaper and I would perfer to have only one tool. Thanks --rod. -- -- Rod Barman, IRIS NCE @ Laboratory for Computational Intelligence, University of British Columbia rodb@cs.ubc.ca From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!montego!not-for-mail Wed Dec 15 12:11:30 EST 1993 Article: 2967 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!montego!not-for-mail From: tony@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Tony Poole) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Calipers vs. Micrometers Date: 12 Dec 1993 21:00:50 -0500 Organization: University of Michigan Computing Club (UMCC) Lines: 35 Message-ID: <2egici$f3g@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> References: <2egc8k$ju4@cs.ubc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: umcc.umcc.umich.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV) rodb@cs.ubc.ca (Rod Barman) writes: >I have few questions regarding micrometers and calipers. I understand >that micrometers are more accurate than calipers, but I wondering if >the electronics now used has changed this to some extent. From what >I've seen micrometers are accurate to about one ten-thou and the new >digital calipers are rated about the same. Is this true or marketing >hype? I interested mostly in automotive rebuilding and I'm wondering >if I should buy fancy digital calipers or a set of micrometers. The >calipers would be cheaper and I would perfer to have only one tool. While digital calipers may, by their readouts solely, have one thou increments, you shouldn't judge the instruments accuracy solely on that. In a perfect world, where surfaces are always square and parallel, your hands don't shake, you apply the same amount of pressure to the caliper, etc etc - a caliper would be as accurate as a micrometer. However, nothing works like this. A micrometer, just because of the nature of what it is, is more repeatedly accurate. It's a more solid beast. Most have a mechanism for constant pressure (the thimble). Micrometers have to absolutely solid parallel surfaces, while calipers have the same - theoretically. In reality, calipers flex - the contact surfaces become unparallel, etc... Spend the money for a decent set of 0-6 mics....you'll be happy you did, as long as you want repeated accurate measurements. Save the calipers for taking reference dimensions.... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tony Poole Traverse City, MI USA tony@umcc.umich.edu tony@cherry1.trv.mi.us From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Wed Dec 15 12:11:31 EST 1993 Article: 2968 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Calipers vs. Micrometers Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec13.142305.10835@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <2egc8k$ju4@cs.ubc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 09:23:01 -0500 Lines: 41 In article <2egc8k$ju4@cs.ubc.ca>, writes: > I have few questions regarding micrometers and calipers. I understand > that micrometers are more accurate than calipers, but I wondering if > the electronics now used has changed this to some extent. From what > I've seen micrometers are accurate to about one ten-thou and the new > digital calipers are rated about the same. Is this true or marketing > hype? I interested mostly in automotive rebuilding and I'm wondering > if I should buy fancy digital calipers or a set of micrometers. The > calipers would be cheaper and I would perfer to have only one tool. > > Thanks --rod. > -- > -- > Rod Barman, IRIS NCE @ Laboratory for Computational Intelligence, > University of British Columbia > rodb@cs.ubc.ca This mainly depends on what sort of tolerances you need to measure to. The better modern electronic dial calipers are rated to .0005". When used with care, I would trust them to read reliably to .001". I just bought a Mitutoyo electronic micrometer that is rated to 0.00005" (That's 50 millionths!), but you can't expect to get that without a micrometer stand and some practice. The caliper is faster, easier to use (within its accuracy limitations), and can cover a wide range with one tool. I'm not that familiar with auto-rebuilding, so I don't know what sort of tolerances you will run into. Anything involving precision 'fits' (press fits, sliding fits, shrink fits) will probably require more accuracy than you can get with a caliper. Whatever you get, I would avoid the cheap imports. A measuring tool like this will last a lifetime. Twenty years down the road, you'll never miss the extra $20 it costs to buy a quality tool, but if you buy less than the best, you'll still be living with its quirks and inaccuracy. Brown and Sharp, Starrett, and Mitutoyo measuring tools go on sale all the time in a dozen different mail order catalogs, so you can usually get a good deal if you shop around. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!acs.ucalgary.ca!zimmerma Wed Dec 15 12:11:32 EST 1993 Article: 2969 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!acs.ucalgary.ca!zimmerma From: zimmerma@acs.ucalgary.ca (Louis Victor Zimmerman) Subject: Re: Mail Making Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 07:42:04 GMT References: <1993Dec11.183639.64887@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta Lines: 22 In article <1993Dec11.183639.64887@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> sfm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT F. MASTROIANNI) writes: >If you like the properties of high-tech alloys then why not avail yourself of >the modern methods of forming and linking the rings. I'm still fascinated by >the idea of a tig-welded titanium suit of mail. Titanium has always been my choice for the real-life equivalent to Tolkiens Mithril... :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- #include --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Louis V. Zimmerman | I do not speak for ACTC Technologies, NAPRA, Software Development | the Calgary Metal Detecting Club, or the Engineer | University of Calgary. |-------------------------------------------------- ACTC Technologies Inc. | Please support Nanotechnology and the Human Calgary, Alberta | Genome project. I'd like to live long enough | to catch up on my household chores... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!acs.ucalgary.ca!zimmerma Wed Dec 15 12:11:33 EST 1993 Article: 2970 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!acs.ucalgary.ca!zimmerma From: zimmerma@acs.ucalgary.ca (Louis Victor Zimmerman) Subject: Tempering oils Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 07:54:48 GMT Expires: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 07:00:00 GMT Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta Lines: 22 Does anyone know if corn oil is a suitable quench for tempering blades? I used a 3/1 ratio of motor oil/deisel fuel for the hardening stage, but did that outdoors at the farm: intend to do the tempering step here in town, using the oven. I'd just as soon not have the aroma of deisel fuel floating around the townhouse: besides, I've got this 5 yr. old bottle of Mazola that I'd like to put to some use... :-) ... the references that I've got mention using olive oil and fish oil as light quenching oils, but nothing about corn oil. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- #include --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Louis V. Zimmerman | I do not speak for ACTC Technologies, NAPRA, Software Development | the Calgary Metal Detecting Club, or the Engineer | University of Calgary. |-------------------------------------------------- ACTC Technologies Inc. | Please support Nanotechnology and the Human Calgary, Alberta | Genome project. I'd like to live long enough | to catch up on my household chores... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!EPLUS17 Wed Dec 15 12:11:34 EST 1993 Article: 2971 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!EPLUS17 From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Wilton vises Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 20:05:43 CST Organization: C.C.S.O. Lines: 8 Message-ID: <16CA311AA3.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <1993Dec13.232220.19572@trl.oz.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: vmd.cso.uiuc.edu In looking for a vise, I came across a used-- apparantly quite old, but little used--4" Wilton vise that looks a lot sturdier and better made than many new vises. Anybody know anything about these...in particular if the asking price of $50 is reasonable? ..Richard From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!relay1!unislc!mgc Wed Dec 15 12:11:36 EST 1993 Article: 2972 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!relay1!unislc!mgc From: mgc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Marc Christensen) Subject: Re: brass for clock project X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] References: Message-ID: <1993Dec13.220644.18400@unislc.slc.unisys.com> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Distribution: usa Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 22:06:44 GMT Lines: 16 mwstimmann (fzstiman@hamlet.ucdavis.edu) wrote: : This months issue of Home Shop Machinist begins a series on building a : pendulum clock. I called McMurry Metals in Texas as suggested by the : article to inquire about buying leaded brass for the project and they sent : me a worthless list of brasses 8 feet long. No ordering info and no : prices. I'm not about to buy tons of brass to get ounces for a clock. : Any one have any suggestions for a source of brass for clock works? Try you local metals recycler. Here we have a foundry that deals exclusively in brass. Check your yellow pages for recyclers or non-ferrous scrap buyers. Some will sell to you some won't. Call and find out. Marc Christensen From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mtu.edu!news.mtu.edu!not-for-mail Wed Dec 15 12:11:37 EST 1993 Article: 2973 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mtu.edu!news.mtu.edu!not-for-mail From: tceisele@mtu.edu (Eisele) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Non Ferrous welding Date: 14 Dec 1993 05:49:40 -0500 Organization: Michigan Technological University Lines: 28 Message-ID: <2ek5o4$oec@ferrite.my> References: <1993Dec13.232220.19572@trl.oz.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: ferrite.my.mtu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Howard Anders (handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU) wrote: : I am told by a person I know, that next to TIG or MIG welding, the next "best" : thing for welding Al is oxy-hydrogen. i.e. replacing the acetylene bottle : & reg in your oxy-acet set with a cylinder of hydrogen and appropriate reg. : I'm told the hoses, torch, and tips can all stay the same. : Anyone had any experience with this & can enlighten me further?? : (Reason being, I can't afford a TIG welder at $3,000+ but maybe I could : afford a H2 cylinder & reg at a few 100's of $) Any comments welcome. : p.s. I only want to do "casual" weld of Al, but would like to get a : reasonably good quality job. I haven't actually done any oxy-hydrogen welding, but I expect that the limitation on what you can weld is whether or not the hot water-vapor produced will react with your weld metal. Water vapor should react with molten aluminum, where CO2 will not. Unless there is some other factor that I don't know about, I'd suggest that if a metal can't be electroplated from aqueous solution, then you won't be able to get a good weld with oxy-hydrogen (which would mean that you could barely weld steel with one, and nothing more reactive like aluminum or magnesium) Another thing that might be a problem is hydrogen embrittlement in the steel. This probably explains why oxy-acetylene is more popular for welding (lowest hydrogen content of any high-energy gaseous fuel that I know of). Any body else ever try this, or know for sure from other sources? -- Tim Eisele Department of Metallurgical and Materials Engineering Michigan Tech. University tceisele@mtu.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!richard Wed Dec 15 12:11:39 EST 1993 Article: 2974 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!richard From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Subject: Re: FAQ Update: Small Parts Tel. # Message-ID: <1993Dec13.224657.7478@pegasus.com> Organization: Pegasus, Honolulu References: <2du82l$l3e@panix.com> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 22:46:57 GMT Lines: 11 >The telephone number for Small Parts in the FAQ is wrong. It's: >305-557-8222. > The number given is almost their fax number. The correct fax number is: 800-423-9009 -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Wed Dec 15 12:11:39 EST 1993 Article: 2975 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: Wilton vises Organization: AT&T Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 13:34:27 GMT Message-ID: References: <16CA311AA3.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> Lines: 17 >From article <16CA311AA3.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>, by EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans): > In looking for a vise, I came across a used-- > apparantly quite old, but little used--4" Wilton > vise that looks a lot sturdier and better made > than many new vises. Anybody know anything about > these...in particular if the asking price of $50 > is reasonable? Wilton is a supplier of high quality vises. A new 4" Wilton is, I believe, in the several hundred dollar range, so a good condition used 4" Wilton suonds reasonable. Look at the condition of the jaws, as well as the general condition of the vise. The jaws tend to get beat up. Replacement jaws are available, but a pair are in the $50 range. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.centerline.com!noc.near.net!mv!chillon!neidorff Wed Dec 15 12:11:41 EST 1993 Article: 2976 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.centerline.com!noc.near.net!mv!chillon!neidorff From: neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff) Subject: Glass Bead Sandblasting? Message-ID: <1993Dec14.214139.13570@uicc.com> Originator: neidorff@makore.uicc.com Sender: news@uicc.com (USENET News System) Organization: Unitrode Integrated Circuits Corp., Merrimack, NH Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 21:41:39 GMT Lines: 12 I heard that the best way to remove old paint and rust from steel is by sandblasting with glass beads. Anyone done this that can advise me? I want to repaint steel which has some rust and some paint on it. Thanks! -- Bob Neidorff; Unitrode I. C. Corp. | Internet: neidorff@uicc.com 7 Continental Blvd. | Voice : (US) 603-424-2410 Merrimack, NH 03054-0399 USA | FAX : (US) 603-424-3460 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cs.ubc.ca!rodb Wed Dec 15 12:11:42 EST 1993 Article: 2977 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cs.ubc.ca!rodb From: rodb@cs.ubc.ca (Rod Barman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Thanks, Gingery, Stainless Date: 14 Dec 1993 16:55:55 GMT Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada Lines: 22 Message-ID: <2ekr6r$e49@cs.ubc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: swan.cs.ubc.ca First, thanks to Tony Poole, Doug White and for their comments on calipers and micrometers. I've decided to get good quality digital calipers and add import-quality micrometers as the need arises. Second, where is a good source to get the Gingery books? My library has the sheet metal brake book (vol.7) but I would like to get some of the others. A place that does mail-order would be perfect. This question doesn't seem to be answered in the FAQ. Third, is there any undesirable side-effects from using stainless steel bolts in aluminum? I know that you have to use anti-seize compound with regular steel bolts and I wondering if stainless would make the corrosion problem worse or better? I'm considering replacing a number of non-structural bolts on an aluminum engine block with stainless. Thanks again --rod. -- -- Rod Barman, IRIS NCE @ Laboratory for Computational Intelligence, University of British Columbia rodb@cs.ubc.ca From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!humphrys Wed Dec 15 12:11:43 EST 1993 Article: 2978 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!humphrys From: humphrys@corp.hp.com (John Humphrys) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: ? Gesswein mail order Date: 14 Dec 1993 17:57:22 GMT Organization: Hewlett Packard Lines: 8 Message-ID: <2ekuq2$c67@hpscit.sc.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hpccoa.corp.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0.9] Any commments on prices/service of this organization appreciated. If there are better places to shop mail order for jewerly supplies please suggest them. thanks, john From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!wc47.writer.yorku.ca!user Wed Dec 15 12:11:45 EST 1993 Article: 2979 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!wc47.writer.yorku.ca!user From: yku00971@cawc.yorku.ca (Peter Philips) Subject: Swords Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Sender: news@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca (USENET News System) Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 19:13:38 GMT Lines: 9 Does anyone out there make swords? I know it is somewhat of an usual request but I have always had an intersted in these and have collected them for several years now. I feel an urge to get another one for my collection but cannot afford the $150+ for a new one. ANy comments? Please dont reply on the newsgroup as I do not monitor it regularly. EMAIL is preffered. Thanks Peter yku00971@cawc.yorku.ca From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!skates.gsfc.nasa.gov!news!steve Thu Dec 16 09:31:48 EST 1993 Article: 2980 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!skates.gsfc.nasa.gov!news!steve From: steve@baloo.gsfc.nasa.gov (Steven M Rezsutek) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Glass Bead Sandblasting? Date: 15 Dec 1993 16:24:17 GMT Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center; Greenbelt, MD Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <1993Dec14.214139.13570@uicc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: baloo.gsfc.nasa.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-reply-to: neidorff@uicc.com's message of Tue, 14 Dec 1993 21:41:39 GMT neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff) writes: I heard that the best way to remove old paint and rust from steel is by sandblasting with glass beads. Anyone done this that can advise me? I want to repaint steel which has some rust and some paint on it. I've done some of this on old radiators, and also used it to clean up some stainless after sil-brazing. I found that the glass beads do a really nice job, and leave a good finish, but they are 1) slow and 2) expensive. For just gross removal of "stuff", ground glass was much quicker and cheaper, but it does leave a rough finish. A final pass with fine beads made it look better. I didn't get *too* pickey with the radiators, since they were going to be painted again anyhow. For what it's worth, Steve From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.ans.net!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!infiniti!kish Thu Dec 16 09:31:49 EST 1993 Article: 2981 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.ans.net!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!infiniti!kish From: kish@watson.ibm.com (Bill Kish) Subject: Re: Glass Bead Sandblasting? Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 18:53:23 GMT Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM. References: <1993Dec14.214139.13570@uicc.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: infiniti.watson.ibm.com Organization: IBM TJ Watson Research Lines: 30 In article <1993Dec14.214139.13570@uicc.com>, neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff) writes: |> |> I heard that the best way to remove old paint and rust from |> steel is by sandblasting with glass beads. Anyone done this |> that can advise me? I want to repaint steel which has some |> rust and some paint on it. |> |> Thanks! |> |> -- |> Bob Neidorff; Unitrode I. C. Corp. | Internet: neidorff@uicc.com |> 7 Continental Blvd. | Voice : (US) 603-424-2410 |> Merrimack, NH 03054-0399 USA | FAX : (US) 603-424-3460 Glass beading is a very nice way to clean up small parts. The parts should not be too heavily painted or rusted. For blast cabinets, beads, etc, contact: TiP Sandblast equipment 1-800-321-9260 And ask for a catalog. -BK From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bnr.ca!cav Thu Dec 16 09:31:50 EST 1993 Article: 2982 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bnr.ca!cav From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Mail Making Date: 15 Dec 1993 19:52:46 GMT Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Lines: 8 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2enpue$2mv@bmerha64.bnr.ca> References: <1993Dec15.165451.142777@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) NNTP-Posting-Host: bmerh364.bnr.ca Don't get me wrong, I like Tolkein as much as the next guy, but what's this about trying to find 'modern' analogues for fictional metals? Remember, Tolkein is fiction. Great fiction, but fiction nevertheless. Cheers, Rick C. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!mrtnt.ntrs.com!tntvax!bbw1 Thu Dec 16 09:31:51 EST 1993 Article: 2983 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!mrtnt.ntrs.com!tntvax!bbw1 Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Need info on Van Norman Lathe Message-ID: <1993Dec15.070617.1@tntvax> From: bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com Date: 15 Dec 93 07:06:17 -0600 Organization: Northern Trust Company Lines: 32 I have a question for the historians and archivists of this group. I recently acquired an old belt driven 7 X ~18 bench lathe The tag on it says Van Norman Bench lathes Bench Millers Made by Waltham Watch tool co Springfield, Mass USA It is a No 3 1/2 with the numbers 7021 stamped in the bed and head/tail stocks. The belt pulley is indexed with 60 holes (waltham watches, 60,... makes sense) I am curious about the approx date of manufacture, available options (at the time, it has no lead screw (very spartan!)) and approximate worth (it is in pretty good shape, considering it spent the last 10+ years of its life in someones garage!) Actually, Any info or pointers to info would be appreciated. Thanx in advance. Barry -- Barry B. Wolinetz | Opinions etc.... mine, not those of the Northern Trust Co. | Northern Trust. Chicago, Il | | "My boolean, why can't you be true?" | Not(Chuck Berry) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ccrf-news!ccrf-news!not-for-mail Thu Dec 16 09:31:52 EST 1993 Article: 2984 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ccrf-news!ccrf-news!not-for-mail From: rpauley@siberia.gatech.edu (Rob Pauley) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Source for Hollow Metal Spheres? Date: 15 Dec 1993 08:17:16 -0500 Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute Lines: 23 Sender: rpauley@ccrf-news.gatech.edu Message-ID: <2en2os$g6@siberia.gatech.edu> References: <2dreh0$27t@panix.com> <2e54ms$90g@slab.mtholyoke.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gatech.edu >Len Moskowitz (moskowit@panix.com) wrote: > > Does anyone have a source for hollow metal spheres around an inch or so > in diameter? I'm thinking of spun or machined aluminum though other > metals, plastics or composites would also be fine. > > -- > Len Moskowitz > moskowit@panix.com > I don't know your application, but for radar calibration, such spheres are available. They are usually spun aluminum. For the smaller sizes, though, they may be some kind of ball which has been metalized. If you're interested, I can get you some addresses. They won't be extremely cheap. One time, we had ping pong balls metalized by the Microelectronics Lab (sputtered or evaporated gold) for calibration reflectors. Rob Pauley rpauley@siberia.gatech.edu -- Rob Pauley rpauley@siberia.gatech.edu * or * robp@n4vu.atl.ga.us From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!basse Thu Dec 16 09:31:54 EST 1993 Article: 2985 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!basse From: basse@austin.ibm.com (Basse) Subject: Re: Tempering oils Originator: basse@basse.austin.ibm.com Sender: news@austin.ibm.com (News id) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 21:47:26 GMT Reply-To: YOURLOGIN@YOURCOMPUTER.austin.ibm.com References: Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 33 In article , zimmerma@acs.ucalgary.ca (Louis Victor Zimmerman) writes: > Does anyone know if corn oil is a suitable quench for tempering > blades? I used a 3/1 ratio of motor oil/deisel fuel for the > hardening stage, but did that outdoors at the farm: intend to do > the tempering step here in town, using the oven. I'd just as soon > not have the aroma of deisel fuel floating around the townhouse: > besides, I've got this 5 yr. old bottle of Mazola that I'd like > to put to some use... :-) ... the references that I've got mention > using olive oil and fish oil as light quenching oils, but nothing > about corn oil. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > #include > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Louis V. Zimmerman | I do not speak for ACTC Technologies, NAPRA, > Software Development | the Calgary Metal Detecting Club, or the > Engineer | University of Calgary. > |-------------------------------------------------- > ACTC Technologies Inc. | Please support Nanotechnology and the Human > Calgary, Alberta | Genome project. I'd like to live long enough > | to catch up on my household chores... > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I suppose you don't have to worry about coronary occlusion in your blades if you use these polyunsaturated oils ;=) Hank -- Hank Basse | IBM internal: basse@basse 512 838-1442 | basse.austin.ibm.com!basse@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com Only my opinion.| ibmpa!basse.austin.ibm.com!basse@ibminet.awdpa.ibm.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!basse Thu Dec 16 09:31:54 EST 1993 Article: 2986 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!basse From: basse@austin.ibm.com (Basse) Subject: Re: Non Ferrous welding Originator: basse@basse.austin.ibm.com Sender: news@austin.ibm.com (News id) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 22:12:29 GMT Reply-To: YOURLOGIN@YOURCOMPUTER.austin.ibm.com References: <1993Dec13.232220.19572@trl.oz.au> <2ek5o4$oec@ferrite.my> Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 53 In article <2ek5o4$oec@ferrite.my>, tceisele@mtu.edu (Eisele) writes: > Howard Anders (handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU) wrote: > : I am told by a person I know, that next to TIG or MIG welding, the next "best" > : thing for welding Al is oxy-hydrogen. i.e. replacing the acetylene bottle > : & reg in your oxy-acet set with a cylinder of hydrogen and appropriate reg. > : I'm told the hoses, torch, and tips can all stay the same. > : Anyone had any experience with this & can enlighten me further?? > : (Reason being, I can't afford a TIG welder at $3,000+ but maybe I could > : afford a H2 cylinder & reg at a few 100's of $) Any comments welcome. > : p.s. I only want to do "casual" weld of Al, but would like to get a > : reasonably good quality job. > > I haven't actually done any oxy-hydrogen welding, but I expect that the > limitation on what you can weld is whether or not the hot water-vapor > produced will react with your weld metal. Water vapor should react with > molten aluminum, where CO2 will not. Unless there is some other factor > that I don't know about, I'd suggest that if a metal can't be electroplated > from aqueous solution, then you won't be able to get a good weld with > oxy-hydrogen (which would mean that you could barely weld steel with one, > and nothing more reactive like aluminum or magnesium) Another thing that > might be a problem is hydrogen embrittlement in the steel. This probably > explains why oxy-acetylene is more popular for welding (lowest hydrogen > content of any high-energy gaseous fuel that I know of). Any body else > ever try this, or know for sure from other sources? > > > -- > Tim Eisele Department of Metallurgical and Materials Engineering > Michigan Tech. University tceisele@mtu.edu Every year at the Experimental Aircraft Association's (EAA) annual Convention at Oshkosh Wisconsin there is an oxy-hydrogen Aluminum welding educational workshop. It deals mainly with welding sheet aluminum using aluminum wire as filler rods and a borax based flux. It appears to work fairly well. They recommend wearing neodymium glass spectacles when welding to filter the bright yellow from the flame caused by the borax flux. The EAA should be able to help with any references you may want. They can be contacted in Oshkosh Wis. And by the way, they use basically unmodified oxy-acetylene rigs with the acetylene regulator replaced by a H2 regulator and bottle. If I remember correctly, I think they also require a tip approximately two sizes larger then for equivalent oxy-acetylene welding. The oxy-hydrogen flame is almost colorless (until it hits the borax) and requires a somewhat special procedure to adjust the torch which if I remember correctly involves holding the flame on a firebrick and adjusting for a properly shaped hot spot on the brick. The EAA should have printed materials which fill in the details on this. Hope this helps. Hank -- Hank Basse | IBM internal: basse@basse 512 838-1442 | basse.austin.ibm.com!basse@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com Only my opinion.| ibmpa!basse.austin.ibm.com!basse@ibminet.awdpa.ibm.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Thu Dec 16 09:31:56 EST 1993 Article: 2987 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Mail Making Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec15.220231.29410@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <1993Dec15.165451.142777@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> <2enpue$2mv@bmerha64.bnr.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 17:02:29 -0500 Lines: 33 In article <2enpue$2mv@bmerha64.bnr.ca>, writes: > Don't get me wrong, I like Tolkein as much as the > next guy, but what's this about trying to find 'modern' > analogues for fictional metals? > > Remember, Tolkein is fiction. Great fiction, but > fiction nevertheless. > > Cheers, Rick C. My two favorite fictional metals are Krell Metal and Unobtanium. Krell Metal (from the movie Forbidden Planet) is very light, and unbelievably hard and tough. I once knew a technician who had to drill some mounting holes in an electrical chassis. He swore it was made of Krell Metal after ruining a drill bit on it. Unobtainium is wonderful stuff, because it always has all of the usually incompatible properties you could ever want. It shares many of the structural properties of Krell metal, except that it is easy to work yet bulletproof, easy to cast yet melts at 10,000 C, can be tempered to be harder than diamond yet never brittle, etc. Actually, Unobtanium might be a plastic of some sort, because it can also be transparent. It is, of course, incredibly inexpensive, and therefore always out of stock. Although they seldom realize it, it is frequently the only stuff that will meet the requirements of young designers who's diplomas are still wet. Although all in good fun, it is occasionally useful to jar someone back to reality by asking them which of the above two materials they expect you to build their design from. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Thu Dec 16 09:31:57 EST 1993 Article: 2988 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: brass for clock project Message-ID: <1993Dec14.170323.1059@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 14 Dec 93 17:03:23 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) References: <1993Dec13.220644.18400@unislc.slc.unisys.com> Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 25 (Marc Christensen) writes |>Try you local metals recycler. |>Here we have a foundry that deals exclusively in brass. |>Check your yellow pages for recyclers or non-ferrous scrap buyers. |>Some will sell to you some won't. Call and find out. |> |>Marc Christensen |> One point is that the article in question is quite explicit that the brass must be of a specific type. It must be at least half-hard, containing between 1% and 3% lead. Therefore, I would not recommend recyclers or scrap dealers, as they almost always have no idea what exactly they are selling. They probably can't tell brass from bronze. I don't have any good suggestions, except perhaps to call McMurray and tell them exactly what you need and that their price list was of no help. You might also try some of the firms listed in the FAQ. Please let us know what you find out! Jim Kirkpatrick jimkirk@uwyo.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!sfm1 Thu Dec 16 09:31:58 EST 1993 Article: 2989 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!sfm1 From: sfm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT F. MASTROIANNI) Subject: Re: Mail Making Message-ID: <1993Dec15.165451.142777@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 16:54:51 GMT Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 35 In article , zimmerma@acs.ucalgary.ca (Louis Victor Zimmerman) writes: >In article <1993Dec11.183639.64887@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> sfm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (S COTT F. MASTROIANNI) writes: >>If you like the properties of high-tech alloys then why not avail yourself of >>the modern methods of forming and linking the rings. I'm still fascinated by >>the idea of a tig-welded titanium suit of mail. > >Titanium has always been my choice for the real-life equivalent >to Tolkiens Mithril... :-) > Also being a Tolkien fan, I have given the matter of mithril some thought as well (Tolkien's description of Bilbo's mithril mail is what initially caused me to make my stainless suit of mail). It is the hardness of mithril that caused me to think Ti might not be the best modern analog. Judging from the original descriptions of "true-silver," Chromium or some alloy of Chromium and Titanium might be closer to how mithril has been described. Personally though, the jet-black metal, Galvorn, the creation of Eol, is more appealing to me than mithril or any other metal present today. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >#include >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Louis V. Zimmerman | I do not speak for ACTC Technologies, NAPRA, >Software Development | the Calgary Metal Detecting Club, or the >Engineer | University of Calgary. > |-------------------------------------------------- >ACTC Technologies Inc. | Please support Nanotechnology and the Human >Calgary, Alberta | Genome project. I'd like to live long enough > | to catch up on my household chores... >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!degroff Thu Dec 16 09:31:59 EST 1993 Article: 2990 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!degroff From: degroff@netcom.com (21012d) Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? Message-ID: Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) References: <1993Nov30.004403.27993@gallant.apple.com> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 04:55:47 GMT Lines: 7 Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.misc:2618 rec.crafts.metalworking:2990 rec.woodworking:28460 I would also suggest that a band saw might be very unsatisfactory, but weakly suggest looking at wire abrasive saws either diamond or "mud" as in silicon carbide water slurry. The things you can not do by scoring and breaking like holes, internal cut outs can be tackled with careful wet use of abrasives. Wet grinding is a safty feature as well as keeping things cool. Les DeGroff From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!ucla-cs!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!caen!batcomputer!cornell!brown Thu Dec 16 09:32:00 EST 1993 Article: 2991 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!ucla-cs!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!caen!batcomputer!cornell!brown From: brown@cs.cornell.edu (Geoffrey Brown) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: rivett Message-ID: <1993Dec14.184947.22739@cs.cornell.edu> Date: 14 Dec 93 18:49:47 GMT Organization: Electrical Engineering, Cornell University, Ithaca NY Lines: 12 I had only one response to my rivett query. I have a turn-of-the-century rivett lathe which I would love to find out more about. I don't have a model number. It is roughly 9" swing, 24" between centers. It has a leadscrew (unlike the one mentioned in the one response). The lathe takes rivett collets (I have a set 1/64 -- 1/2). It seems to have been orignally powered by an overhead shaft, but is now motor powered. Overall, the lathe is beautifully made -- all unpainted. Bearing surfaces are all handscraped. It has a funky tool holder for round tool bits. Geoffrey Brown From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!a2i!mlyon Thu Dec 16 09:32:02 EST 1993 Article: 2992 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!a2i!mlyon From: mlyon@rahul.net (Mike Lyon) Subject: laser measurement systems for sale!!!!!!!! Message-ID: Sender: news@rahul.net (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: bolero Organization: a2i network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 06:04:02 GMT Lines: 15 hello i have some laser measuring devices for sale. they measure distance,flatness, velocity, straightness, parrellism, angular displacement, and squareness. they are as follows. H.P. 5501A LASER TRANSDUCER, I HAVE ONE EXCEL PRECISION 1001A , I HAVE TWO MAKE A OFFER, SEND ME A E-MAIL IF YOU ARE INTERESTED, mlyon@rahul.net -- Mike Lyon From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep Thu Dec 16 09:32:02 EST 1993 Article: 2993 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep From: bleep@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (bui tho xuan) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Mail Making Date: 15 Dec 1993 20:19:33 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Lines: 12 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2enrgl$hm@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <1993Dec15.165451.142777@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> <2enpue$2mv@bmerha64.bnr.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: ux1.cso.uiuc.edu In article (Rick Cavasin) writes: >Don't get me wrong, I like Tolkein as much as the >next guy, but what's this about trying to find 'modern' >analogues for fictional metals? > >Remember, Tolkein is fiction. Great fiction, but >fiction nevertheless. Wot? You mean...I can't reference Tolkein in the article I'm submitting to Acta Metallurgica? Oh no! Woe! tho From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!ogicse!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!sinnett-104-486.NASH.ORST.EDU!sinnettc Fri Dec 17 16:15:16 EST 1993 Article: 2994 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!ogicse!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!sinnett-104-486.NASH.ORST.EDU!sinnettc From: sinnettc@ccmail.orst.edu (DRAGON!) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? Message-ID: Date: 16 Dec 93 16:35:09 GMT Article-I.D.: ccmail.sinnettc.74.756059709 References: <1993Nov30.004403.27993@gallant.apple.com> Organization: F & W and Micro, Oregon State University Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: sinnett-104-486.nash.orst.edu Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.misc:2622 rec.crafts.metalworking:2994 rec.woodworking:28517 In article degroff@netcom.com (21012d) writes: >From: degroff@netcom.com (21012d) >Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws? >Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 04:55:47 GMT > I would also suggest that a band saw might be very unsatisfactory, >but weakly suggest looking at wire abrasive saws either diamond >or "mud" as in silicon carbide water slurry. The things you can not >do by scoring and breaking like holes, internal cut outs can be >tackled with careful wet use of abrasives. Wet grinding is a >safty feature as well as keeping things cool. Les DeGroff Just FYI, not a flame, the bandsaws for Stained Glass are like wire abrasive saws . . . diamonds on the cutting edge. I believe they've all got water baths built in as well. SG grinders all have water baths for cooling/ cleaning. The one area I've found that takes some work is when I'm trying to drill holes with the smaller tips. That requires stopping to wet the bit/ glass periodically. For holes Black & Decker sells a 4 bit set of tile/ glass drilling bits. I've got a set but haven't tried them. They too, will need to be cooled with water or something. Chris From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!udel!news.sprintlink.net!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson Fri Dec 17 16:15:18 EST 1993 Article: 2995 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!udel!news.sprintlink.net!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson From: pjackson@netcom.com (Phillip Jackson) Subject: Help on Forge?? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 17:00:35 GMT Lines: 15 I'm building a propane fired pipe forge from the ABANA plans and have reached the point I need the regulator. The specs only say, "propane at 2-20 psi". All the propane distributors I have called profess themselves baffled and ask me questions I can't answer. Will someone who's successfully built one of these forges give me more details re the regulator? What did you use? Where did you get it? What did it cost? Where's Elvis? You get the main idea! Phill -- pjackson@netcom.com From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Fri Dec 17 16:15:20 EST 1993 Article: 2996 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Prices on Hiraoka's Train Construction books Date: 16 Dec 1993 08:40:03 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2ep6t3$cct@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: <2ekn1f$215@news.cerf.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk In article <2ekn1f$215@news.cerf.net>, jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) writes: |> Kozo Hiraoka has written three train construction books. I have |> heard |> that they are excellent books. The pricing seem weird.. |> |> Building the Shay 194pp $36 |> Building the Heisler 242pp $32 |> Building the Climax 224pp $36 |> |> Why is the Heisler book the biggest and the cheapest? Can you use |> any |> of the book stand alone? Is the Heisler book as good as the others? |> |> Please response vias email, I don't have time to read the news |> consistantly. |> Please copy your messages to this group - I was thinking of buying one of these books, but they are expensive and I'd like to hear about them first. -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news Fri Dec 17 16:15:21 EST 1993 Article: 2997 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: Re: Building Trains, Hiraoka's Books... Message-ID: Sender: Greg Lewis Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno References: <2epvac$7e0@news.cerf.net> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 01:33:46 GMT Lines: 20 In article <2epvac$7e0@news.cerf.net> jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) writes: >I've received a couple of responses about Hiraoka's books, but more >requestes for me to post the responses (I will in a few days.). It won't >be too exciting unless I get a few more responses. > stuff deleted... >Matthew Jones >jones@io.dsd.litton.com (preferred) >jonesm@cerf.net I have a *strong* suspicion that Santa may bring me the Shay book. If this happens, I'll post a review sometime after the 25th.... Standby. ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!ukma!nntp.msstate.edu!olivea!pagesat!news.cerf.net!nic.cerf.net!jonesm Fri Dec 17 16:15:23 EST 1993 Article: 2998 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!ukma!nntp.msstate.edu!olivea!pagesat!news.cerf.net!nic.cerf.net!jonesm From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Building Trains, Hiraoka's Books... Date: 16 Dec 1993 15:36:44 GMT Organization: CERFnet Dial n' CERF Customer Lines: 24 Message-ID: <2epvac$7e0@news.cerf.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.cerf.net I've received a couple of responses about Hiraoka's books, but more requestes for me to post the responses (I will in a few days.). It won't be too exciting unless I get a few more responses. I received one request for information on train building in general (which I responsed to directly.), however I thought maybe there are other who could use the information. (Similar information is in the FAQ.) A popular machinest hobby is to build model steam trains, usually they run on 3.5, 4.5 or 7.5" track and an engineer (operator) sits on top of the tender car. There are four magazines that cover this hobby. Live Steam and Modeltech in the US and Model Engineer and Engineering in Minature in England. In the US I would recommend Live Steam over Modeltech, just because they seem to have more engine construction articles. Modeltech seems to have better articles on making rolling stock (box cars, flat cars...). Hiraoka's engine construction articles are serialized in Live Steam before the book is published. Live Steam has claimed they will start a new Hiraoka construction series called "Pensey Switcher" real soon for a couple of years now. Matthew Jones jones@io.dsd.litton.com (preferred) jonesm@cerf.net From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!eff!linus!linus.mitre.org!mwvm.mitre.org!M16302 Fri Dec 17 16:15:27 EST 1993 Article: 2999 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!eff!linus!linus.mitre.org!mwvm.mitre.org!M16302 From: M16302@mwvm.mitre.org Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Lathing a bike seatpost from 30.2 t0 30.0 mm Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 15:29:44 EST Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102 Lines: 21 Message-ID: <16CA4D9E8S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwvm.mitre.org I need a mountain bike seatpost that I have not been able to find in the size I need. I need a 30.0 diam, 400 mm length, with a standard offset to the rear. I've been told that I could lathe down a 30.2 mm post safely. Any idea where I should take this to be done. What sort of machine shop ?? I live in the Washington, D.C. area. The post I'm thinking of is made of an alloy referring to in bicyling circles as Chrome-Molly. Robert B. Shain EMAIL: RSHAIN @MITRE.ORG The MITRE Corporation Voice: (703)883-5592 Center for Intellignence & Special Programs FAX: (703)883-6991 Mailstop W955 7525 COLSHIRE DRIVE "MY OTHER MACHINE IS A CAR" McLean, VA. 22102 "My other car is a bike" "My other sport is ping pong" From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!rag.austin.nam.slb.com!paisley Fri Dec 17 16:15:29 EST 1993 Article: 3000 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!rag.austin.nam.slb.com!paisley From: paisley@austin.nam.slb.com (Gary Paisley) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Source for Hollow Metal Spheres? Date: 16 Dec 93 09:30:54 Organization: Schlumberger Austin Systems Center Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <2dreh0$27t@panix.com> <2e54ms$90g@slab.mtholyoke.edu> <2en2os$g6@siberia.gatech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: exodus.austin.nam.slb.com In-reply-to: rpauley@siberia.gatech.edu's message of 15 Dec 1993 08:17:16 -0500 >Len Moskowitz (moskowit@panix.com) wrote: > > Does anyone have a source for hollow metal spheres around an inch or so > in diameter? I'm thinking of spun or machined aluminum though other > metals, plastics or composites would also be fine. > > -- > Len Moskowitz > moskowit@panix.com > Sure - but you had better hurry. K-Mart, Walmart and that French discount store Targeaux usually have lots this time of year. Many different sizes, from 1/4" to about 3" or so in diameter. Most have metal evaporated finishes on a glass substrate, and most are colored, but there are always a few chrome finished ones. These will have a "navel" where the blow molding equipment injected hot air. The same source has somewhat cheaper, but more durable styrene spheres. These are harder to find with metallic finishes, and may in fact have some "kitchy" decoration attached. gary From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers Fri Dec 17 16:15:30 EST 1993 Article: 3001 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers From: handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (Howard Anders) Subject: Non Ferrous weld?? Message-ID: <1993Dec16.232612.568@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 23:26:12 GMT Lines: 5 Many tks to those who posted info on this subject. Particularly re the use of Oxy-Hydrogen. Hank Basse of IBM, if you happen to see this, tks for the info about E.A.A. I wonder if you would have their address, as I don't have access to USA directories. Tks.(I tried doing an email reply to your post but it kept bouncing).. Howard Anders. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!fsbgf Fri Dec 17 16:15:32 EST 1993 Article: 3002 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!fsbgf From: fsbgf@aurora.alaska.edu Subject: Welding Titanium Message-ID: <1993Dec16.224501.1@aurora.alaska.edu> Lines: 9 Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: aurora.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 07:45:01 GMT Anyone out there have any good hints for welding titanium? A friend and I are designing and building a racing suspention for a snowmachine and are considering using titanium for the frame. Any work we will be doing will be done using TIG welding and we are considering building a purge tank to do the welding in. We have the skill and the equipment but lack the experience. Your advice would be appreciated. Brandon France fsbgf@aurora.alaska.edu From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!bmdhh130!iainw Fri Dec 17 16:15:34 EST 1993 Article: 3003 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!bmdhh130!iainw From: iainw@bnr.ca (Iain Woolf) Subject: Re: Glass Bead Sandblasting? Message-ID: <1993Dec17.112934.23878@bnr.ca> Sender: news@bnr.ca (News Administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh12 Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK References: <1993Dec14.214139.13570@uicc.com> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 11:29:34 GMT Lines: 41 In article <1993Dec14.214139.13570@uicc.com> neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff) writes: > >I heard that the best way to remove old paint and rust from >steel is by sandblasting with glass beads. Anyone done this >that can advise me? I want to repaint steel which has some >rust and some paint on it. > >Thanks! > >-- >Bob Neidorff; Unitrode I. C. Corp. | Internet: neidorff@uicc.com >7 Continental Blvd. | Voice : (US) 603-424-2410 >Merrimack, NH 03054-0399 USA | FAX : (US) 603-424-3460 When I had some parts blast cleaned for my kitcar not so long ago, the guy who did told me that certainly with the granularity of media he used, glas beads weren't that abrasive, but do leave a nice finish on the work (microscopically like the surface of a golfball). For removal of heavy rust, you need an abrasive media like Aluminium Oxide (or Aluminum Oxide for those in the US :-) Incidentally, the same guy showed me an excellent trick which I used on my car horn. This will only work with metals harder than brass. After having some metal part cleaned up by (abrasive) blasting, buff it up with a brass wire brush (suede shoe brushes are ideal). Because the surface of the work is quite rough and the metal is harder than your brass wire brush (remember), the piece you are working on acts like sandpaper to the brush and you end up with a very nice brass/golden coloured "sheen" to the work. When you are happy with the coverage, fully coat the work in clear lacquer. Failuer to lacquer it will result in speedy rusting of your work (assuming iron content) due to preferential rusting since the brass is more anodic. Cheers, Iain. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Iain Woolf, BNR, Maidenhead UK | My opinions are my opinions /~\__ (0628) 794537 esn 590-4537 | iainw@bnr.ca ^^ O -- O ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!sab Fri Dec 17 16:15:35 EST 1993 Article: 3004 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!sab From: sab@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Help on Forge?? Message-ID: <1993Dec17.074336.3307@tower> Date: 17 Dec 93 07:43:36 -0500 References: <1993Dec16.163247.945@gems.vcu.edu> Lines: 24 In article <1993Dec16.163247.945@gems.vcu.edu>, wmjones@gems.vcu.edu writes: > For my propane forge I scrounged a regulator from a gas grill. It works ok for > general forge work, but I'm not sure I can get it up to welding heat. I'm > still playing with the oriface diameter, so I still have hope. > Bill > I've just assembled a 18" long LP forge (using a 12" diameter well pipe), dual burners (each burner consisting of 3" of 2" OD black pipe swaged down to 1", welded to 4" of 1" OD black pipe, with a 1/2" pipe nipple running at right angles through the 2" section, 1.5" from the wide end, with an orifice made with a #60 drill bit. I welded a 1/2" nut (drilled out to allow the nipple to slip through) over 1 of the holes in the 2" section and equipped the nut with a small cap screw to act as a lock mechanism). Refractory consists of a lining of K-28 fire bricks and a bed of castable refractory. The gas regulator was a standard adjustable reg (0-15 psi), stocked by my local propane company. The beast eats a 20lb propane tank in 3-4 hrs when wide open, hits welding temperatures for wrought-iron/O1 Damacus without any real problems, and does this without a blower or even pre-heaters. I'm moving onto a more sophisticated design so as to cut gas consumption, but...total cost so far (including the reg) is < $50.00 (your mileage may vary). I'm impressed with how easy it was to put the beast together. Steve Bloom, IronFlower Forge (SAB@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!vela.acs.oakland.edu!amaranth Fri Dec 17 16:15:37 EST 1993 Article: 3005 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!vela.acs.oakland.edu!amaranth From: amaranth@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Paul Amaranth) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Atlas 7" bench mill Date: 17 Dec 1993 14:13:34 GMT Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, Michigan, U.S.A. Lines: 10 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2eseqe$22r@oak.oakland.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: vela.acs.oakland.edu I ran across an add for an Atlas 7" bench mill with power feed. Does anyone know anything about this machine? I'm going to see if I can get a look at it later today. thanks -- Paul Amaranth Manager User Services - office: (313) 370 4541 (also voicemail) (internet) amaranth@vela.acs.oakland.edu | Amaranth's Law of Economics: (bitnet) amaranth@oakland | Brit Sports cars + horses (uucp) ...!uunet!umich!vela!amaranth | = $0 From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Fri Dec 17 16:15:38 EST 1993 Article: 3006 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Chain Mail Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec17.140917.16101@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 09:09:14 -0500 Lines: 61 I originally responded to this thread directly with its originator, Joel Chambers (ravenous@cnj.digex.com) because I didn't expect much interest in this area. Seeing that I was mistaken, I have organized my notes into something a bit more presentable. About 20 years ago, I discovered an easy way to make rust-proof chain mail. The only drawback is that it isn't cheap. However, it's not outrageously expensive either, depending on your personal definition of outrageous. The secret is to buy 'split rings' designed for making fishing lures. These are basically miniature keyrings (the 2-turn overlapping spring variety) used to hold the hooks on fishing lures. At the time, I bought nickel plated spring-steel rings for about a penny a piece from a semi-retail source. This was expensive enough that I only made small pieces of mail for helmets and the like. After complaints that split rings weren't 'authentic', I did some research and found a photo in one of the big armor books of some split-ring mail in a Swiss museum. Unfortunately, I lost my notes on the reference, but Joel is trying to track it down again. Joel is concerned that it won't look enough like classic chain mail to avoid snide comments. I never had too many complaints about general appearance, although that may have triggered some of the 'but it's not authentic!' comments from the usual crowd of people who don't know what they're talking about. You really don't notice the split-ring construction from more than a few feet away. I got out of the armor racket for a while, and about 10 years ago I met someone in the SCA grumbling about how difficult it was to make good mail, and how it rusted etc. etc. I decided that it was worth another look, only this time I was going to go wholesale. A tour through the Thomas Register and some phone calls yielded info from three companies that made rings, and would sell in bulk. Let me start by describing the rings in more detail. As far as shape, they look exactly like miniature key rings. The wire is left round, unlike some keyrings where the wire is formed as two mating semi-circular pieces. Some manufacturer's rings have a series of small dents where the forming equipment 'grabbed' the wire. The rings are available in a range of sizes from about 1/8" OD (a No. 0) to about 3/4" OD (a No. 12). Most old mail is made with a single ring size, but some interesting effects could be had by mixing sizes. The rings are made of nickel or copper-plated spring steel, or in plain or black stainless steel. This gives the possibility of designing a coat of arms into the mail, using different colors. They are also available in nickel-plated or polished brass, but it will be weaker, and not authentic, to the best of my knowledge. You have to be careful when mixing the rings from different sources, because the sizes vary slightly from one vendor to the next. The diameter of the wire used also varies, which makes some of the rings a bit 'thin' looking', while others are more 'chunky'. This will have a big impact on the weight of the final result. Once you know how chain mail is 'woven', linking the rings is a snap (literally). You can buy (or make) a special pair of pliers for linking the rings efficiently, and with minimum damage to the plating. One jaw of the pliers is flat, and the opposing jaw has a wegde shaped point that comes down against the first jaw. The pliers simultaneously hold the ring, and the wedge pries the layers apart to hook them onto another ring. Once you get a ring started this way, a quick twist of the wrist will complete the linking operation. It's almost as fast as working with butted rings, and much faster than riveted or welded rings. The results are gorgeous, and practically indestructable. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Fri Dec 17 16:15:39 EST 1993 Article: 3007 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: valve grinding equipment Message-ID: <993.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 17 Dec 93 09:13:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 4 I'm interested in purchasing some automotive valve grinding equipment. Used, or even broken equipment would be fine. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Fri Dec 17 16:15:40 EST 1993 Article: 3008 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: Building Trains, Hiraoka's Books... Message-ID: <1993Dec16.222910.6103@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 32 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: <2epvac$7e0@news.cerf.net> Date: 16 Dec 93 22:29:10 CST Matthew Jones (jonesm@nic.cerf.net) wrote: > A popular machinest hobby is to build model steam trains, usually they > run on 3.5, 4.5 or 7.5" track... Or, 3.5, 5 and 7.25" track, depending on what part of the world you're in... > There are four magazines that cover this hobby. Live Steam and Modeltech... Modeltec > ... In the US I would recommend Live Steam over Modeltech, just because > they seem to have more engine construction articles. Modeltech seems > to have better articles on making rolling stock (box cars, flat cars...). Modeltec has been under new management for a year or so now; I know the guy who publishes it is desperately trying to get more material. IMHO the fact that Modeltec has a monthly (Vs. Live Steams now bi-monthly) edition is an advantage ...hell, I can't help but read it in one go and it's sooooo long till the next edition. I'd be lost without Modeltec and the ME. : Hiraoka's engine construction articles are serialized in Live Steam before : the book is published. Live Steam has claimed they will start a new Hiraoka : construction series called "Pensey Switcher" real soon... Part 8 of the switcher appeared in the November/December 1993 Live Steam. Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!wbrown Mon Dec 20 13:45:13 EST 1993 Article: 3009 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!wbrown From: wbrown@csg.lbl.gov (Bill Brown) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: seeking opinions on lathe purchase Date: 17 Dec 1993 20:47:17 GMT Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California Lines: 16 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <36135@dog.ee.lbl.gov> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.243.70.11 In article MARTIN@cubic.com (Bill W. Martin) writes: > Anyone care to lend an opinion on which of the following lathes >would be the most desirable to take home? > >1. 14" Rockwell >2. 14" Clausing >3. 14" South Bend Decisions! Decisions! Always decisions! Disclaimer: These opinions are my own and have | nothing to do with the official policy or the | -bill management of L.B.L, who probably couldn't | wlbrown@lbl.gov care less about employees who play with trains. | From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tandem!mustang!a-rickf Mon Dec 20 13:45:14 EST 1993 Article: 3010 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tandem!mustang!a-rickf From: a-rickf@ac.Tandem.com (Rick Frazier) Subject: lathe/mill purchase: heard of Shoptaak Message-ID: Sender: news@ac.tandem.com Nntp-Posting-Host: mustang Reply-To: a-rickf@ac.Tandem.com Organization: Atalla Corporation - San Jose, CA. Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1993 02:21:22 GMT Lines: 20 X-Disclaimer: This article is not the opinion of Tandem Computers, Inc. I'm considering buying a shoptask lathe/mill for use in a commercial environment, primarily involving cutting plastics. Sometimes, however, we may cut light metals, and rarely, steels. Shoptask is located in Aberdeen or Montesano, Washington, and sells a combo unit that (I assume) is made in China or other parts "East". I have spoken with the people at Shoptask in WA, and with an owner locally here in San Jose, CA, but am wondering if anyone with real metalworking experience has used one of these units. It's a model 17-20MC, and has 17 inches swing over the bed, 8 inches over the carriage, multiple lathe speeds, power feed, and milling capacity of 11" x 24" advertised. If anyone has one of these, does the unit meet the advertised specs? Do you like it? Is it worth the money? ($1795 w/tooling, about $3000 with computer power feeds on all three axis, $9000 with full CNC control.) any pointers/comments will be welcome --Thanks -- Rick From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!cs.uml.edu!rgiacchi Mon Dec 20 13:45:14 EST 1993 Article: 3011 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!cs.uml.edu!rgiacchi From: rgiacchi@cs.uml.edu (Roy Giacchino) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Cutting Titanium ( was Re: Welding Titanium ) Date: 18 Dec 1993 23:02:58 GMT Organization: UMass-Lowell Lines: 16 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2f0272$7se@ulowell.uml.edu> References: <1993Dec16.224501.1@aurora.alaska.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.uml.edu >Anyone out there have any good hints for welding titanium? >A friend and I are designing and building a racing suspention for a >snowmachine and are considering using titanium for the frame. >Any work we will be doing will be done using TIG welding and we are >considering building a purge tank to do the welding in. We have the skill >and the equipment but lack the experience. Your advice would be appreciated. > Your request sparked my curiosity so I'll ask .. How does one cut a peice of titanium ? What would the cutting material be ? How about drilling the stuff ? What kind of drill bits would be used? Just wondering. Thanks. -- roy From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!crash!danr Mon Dec 20 13:45:15 EST 1993 Article: 3012 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!crash!danr From: danr@crash.cts.com (Dan Rubesh) Subject: Re: Cutting Titanium ( was Re: Welding Titanium ) Organization: CTS Network Services (CTSNET/crash), San Diego, CA Distribution: na Date: 19 Dec 93 00:18:55 PST Message-ID: <1993Dec19.001855.29969@crash> References: <1993Dec16.224501.1@aurora.alaska.edu> <2f0272$7se@ulowell.uml.edu> Lines: 52 fsbgf@aurora.alaska.edu (Brandon France) inquires: >>Anyone out there have any good hints for welding titanium? >>A friend and I are designing and building a racing suspention for a >>snowmachine and are considering using titanium for the frame. >>Any work we will be doing will be done using TIG welding and we are >>considering building a purge tank to do the welding in. We have the skill >>and the equipment but lack the experience. Your advice would be >>appreciated >> to which rgiacchi@cs.uml.edu (Roy Giacchino) inquires: > Your request sparked my curiosity so I'll ask .. How does one > cut a peice of titanium ? What would the cutting material be ? > How about drilling the stuff ? What kind of drill bits would be > used? Just wondering. Thanks. > > -- roy Titanium can be cut by a number of conventional means.. It isn't so much a hard material as a tough material.. Titanium is actually relatively soft, and has some plastic deformation characteristics that can make it challenging to machine.. It can be best turned / milled with carbide inserted tools, high positive, high shear geometry, on the order of 15-20 degrees top rake seems to work better.. Drilling is done with carbide, cobalt, or high speed steel drills.. Cutting speeds are relatively low, around 50-60 surface ft/min for high speed and <150 sfpm for carbides (this from memory as my Metcut book is at work).. Probably the most difficult operation to perform on Ti in my experience is tapping, as the plastic deformation characteristic tends to make the material try to go away from the tap while it is being driven into the hole, and when you reverse the tap to remove it, the Ti hangs onto it like grim death.. Among the better cuting fluids that I've used with it is Westlube / Anchorlube (a.k.a. `parrot shit' in the shops I've worked in).. Titanium is also a flammable material, much like Magnesium it will maintain it's own flame once lit.. It's about twice as difficult as mag to get started burning, and about 3x harder to put out.. One aerospace machine shop that I worked in some years ago used to routinely weld Titanium with an Electron Beam welding process in a vaccuum chamber.. I'm not sure it can be easily welded with TIG, and my area of experience is more in the cutting than the welding arena.. Most likely a welding type will be able to answer that question better.. -- Good Winds and Tight Lines! Dan Rubesh AKA Member/Merchant Wind Wizard, Purveyor of UUCP: {ucsd, nosc}!crash!danr GO Stunt Kites & Accessories ARPA: crash!danr@nosc.mil FLY A P.O. Box 5747 INET: danr@crash.cts.com STUNT Ventura, CA 93005 (805) 659-5654 KITE! Member: Kite Trade Assn. From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!terpsichore!jb Mon Dec 20 13:45:16 EST 1993 Article: 3013 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!terpsichore!jb From: jb@terpsichore.MAE.CWRU.Edu (Jim Berilla) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Cutting Titanium ( was Re: Welding Titanium ) Date: 19 Dec 1993 21:40:48 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, USA Lines: 25 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2f2hp0$srs@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <1993Dec16.224501.1@aurora.alaska.edu> <2f0272$7se@ulowell.uml.edu> <1993Dec19.001855.29969@crash> NNTP-Posting-Host: terpsichore.mae.cwru.edu In article <1993Dec19.001855.29969@crash>, danr@crash.cts.com (Dan Rubesh) writes: [lots of good stuff deleted] There are a lot of titanium alloys in use, and the ease of machining them varies greatly. CP (chemically or commercially pure) titanium is a dream to work with. 6Al4V (6% aluminum, 4% vanadium) can be a nightmare. The problem with 6Al4V is that it work hardens quickly. If you let the tool kiss the surface without cutting, the surface will harden. Then it's like cutting through case hardening. Carbide tools help a lot in this case. Another weird thing about titanium, is that the chips are very sharp for some reason. I couldn't believe how sharp they were, but I have a scar on my index finger from trying to clear a chip on the lathe. The chip cut down to the bone, and the lathe wasn't even running. (It was 22 years ago. I know better now.) |> Titanium is also a flammable |> material, much like Magnesium it will maintain it's own flame once lit.. Save those chips. The pyrotechnicians use them for (surprisingly) titanium salutes. Bright flash, lots of sparks, bit noise. -- Jim Berilla / jb@falstaff.MAE.cwru.edu / +1 216 368 6776 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!caen!msuinfo!uchinews!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Thu Dec 23 13:58:50 EST 1993 Article: 3014 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!caen!msuinfo!uchinews!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: Building Trains, Hiraoka's Books... Organization: AT&T Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 14:04:40 GMT Message-ID: References: <1993Dec16.222910.6103@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 29 >From article <1993Dec16.222910.6103@hemlock.cray.com>, by trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby): > Matthew Jones (jonesm@nic.cerf.net) wrote: >> A popular machinest hobby is to build model steam trains, usually they >> run on 3.5, 4.5 or 7.5" track... > > Or, 3.5, 5 and 7.25" track, depending on what part of the world you're in... As long as we are picking nits, the gauge for nominal 1"/ft scale in the US is 4 3/4", not 4 1/2". The overall picture is as follows: UK (and rest of the world, except USA?): 3.5", 5", 7.25" USA (Eastern portion): 3.5", 4.75", 7.25" USA (remainder): 3.5", 4.75", 7.5" There is also a bit of 2.5" track still around, and some Gauge 1 equipment (1.75" gauge) is built in live steam, although seldom using coal as a fuel (alcohol, and, I believe, butane are common). There is also some interest in still larger scales, with 15" gauge being the most common. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Thu Dec 23 13:58:51 EST 1993 Article: 3015 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Chain Mail (2nd Attempt) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec20.150039.17489@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 10:00:38 -0500 Lines: 60 At least here, the second 2/3rds of my post got cut off. This is another attempt. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I originally responded to this thread directly with its originator, Joel Chambers (ravenous@cnj.digex.com) because I didn't expect much interest in this area. Seeing that I was mistaken, I have organized my notes into something a bit more presentable. About 20 years ago, I discovered an easy way to make rust-proof chain mail. The only drawback is that it isn't cheap. However, it's not outrageously expensive either, depending on your personal definition of outrageous. The secret is to buy 'split rings' designed for making fishing lures. These are basically miniature keyrings (the 2-turn overlapping spring variety) used to hold the hooks on fishing lures. At the time, I bought nickel plated spring-steel rings for about a penny a piece from a semi-retail source. This was expensive enough that I only made small pieces of mail for helmets and the like. After complaints that split rings weren't 'authentic', I did some research and found a photo in one of the big armor books of some split-ring mail in a Swiss museum. Unfortunately, I lost my notes on the reference, but Joel is trying to track it down again. Joel is concerned that it won't look enough like classic chain mail to avoid snide comments. I never had too many complaints about general appearance, although that may have triggered some of the 'but it's not authentic!' comments from the usual crowd of people who don't know what they're talking about. You really don't notice the split-ring construction from more than a few feet away. I got out of the armor racket for a while, and about 10 years ago I met someone in the SCA grumbling about how difficult it was to make good mail, and how it rusted etc. etc. I decided that it was worth another look, only this time I was going to go wholesale. A tour through the Thomas Register and some phone calls yielded info from three companies that made rings, and would sell in bulk. Let me start by describing the rings in more detail. As far as shape, they look exactly like miniature key rings. The wire is left round, unlike some keyrings where the wire is formed as two mating semi-circular pieces. Some manufacturer's rings have a series of small dents where the forming equipment 'grabbed' the wire. The rings are available in a range of sizes from about 1/8" OD (a No. 0) to about 3/4" OD (a No. 12). Most old mail is made with a single ring size, but some interesting effects could be had by mixing sizes. The rings are made of nickel or copper-plated spring steel, or in plain or black stainless steel. This gives the possibility of designing a coat of arms into the mail, using different colors. They are also available in nickel-plated or polished brass, but it will be weaker, and not authentic, to the best of my knowledge. You have to be careful when mixing the rings from different sources, because the sizes vary slightly from one vendor to the next. The diameter of the wire used also varies, which makes some of the rings a bit 'thin' looking', while others are more 'chunky'. This will have a big impact on the weight of the final result. Once you know how chain mail is 'woven', linking the rings is a snap (literally). You can buy (or make) a special pair of pliers for linking the rings efficiently, and with minimum damage to the plating. One jaw of the pliers is flat, and the opposing jaw has a wegde shaped point that comes down against the first jaw. The pliers simultaneously hold the ring, and the wedge pries the layers apart to hook them onto another ring. Once you get a ring started this way, a quick twist of the wrist will complete the linking From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Thu Dec 23 13:58:52 EST 1993 Article: 3016 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Chain Mail (Apology) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec20.152332.18236@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 10:23:26 -0500 Lines: 16 I seem to be having problems getting anything lengthy posted entact. At least what I am seeing here is getting chopped after a certain point. My original posting on chain mail includes a list of vendors and prices, which has been missing from both versions recieved here. If anyone is interested, I can try emailing the whole thing (that might or might not have the same problem). I would be curious to know if anyone has received the entire message at their site. At this time, I have no way of knowing if the problem is with sending or receiving at my end. Sorry for the confusion. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory gwhite@ll.mit.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!bmdhh130!iainw Thu Dec 23 13:58:53 EST 1993 Article: 3017 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!bmdhh130!iainw From: iainw@bnr.ca (Iain Woolf) Subject: Simple question about "guage" thickness Message-ID: <1993Dec20.154915.6163@bnr.ca> Sender: iainw@bnr.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh12 Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 15:49:15 GMT Lines: 16 Could someone please tell me how thick the various "guages" for sheet metal are? I will be ordering some alumin(i)um or steel sheet in the near future to make up some brackets for bits on my car. The variou thicknesses on offer are 10, 14, 16, 18 and 20 guage. What is the equivalent thickness in millimetres? Thanks in advance, Iain. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Iain Woolf, BNR, Maidenhead UK | My opinions are my opinions /~\__ (0628) 794537 esn 590-4537 | iainw@bnr.ca ^^ O -- O ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Thu Dec 23 13:58:55 EST 1993 Article: 3018 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: seeking opinions on lathe purchase Message-ID: <1993Dec19.222104.15880@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 28 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: Distribution: usa Date: 19 Dec 93 22:21:04 CST Bill W. Martin (MARTIN@cubic.com) wrote: : Anyone care to lend an opinion on which of the following lathes : would be the most desirable to take home? I would suggest that they are all reasonable machines to build up on. Assuming they are all used machines, you should consider closely which one is in best condition. The tooling that "comes with" is also potentially significant since it can represent a very large investment. The condition of the tooling is also relevant, of course... buying a machine because it has a whole pile of tooling isn't very smart if the tooling is so much scrap. Out of curiosity, would you care to elucidate on what comes with each and give some indication of the asking prices? you may get better feedback. Are they ex-machine shop, Technical College,... ? I should have such decisions. Santa, Santa, wherefore art thou, Santa... *grin* Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!mrtnt.ntrs.com!tntvax!bbw1 Thu Dec 23 13:58:56 EST 1993 Article: 3019 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!mrtnt.ntrs.com!tntvax!bbw1 Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Specs for 5C collets? Message-ID: <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax> From: bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com Date: 20 Dec 93 14:43:48 -0600 Organization: Northern Trust Company Lines: 18 Would someone who owns a collet lathe that uses 5C collets be so kind as to post the specifications for a 5C collet? I have only one home made collet for my lathe and would like to know if it is 5C compatible before I go and order more collets. E-mail or a post to this group , either is fine with me. Thanks in advance Barry -- Barry B. Wolinetz | Opinions etc.... mine, not those of the Northern Trust Co. | Northern Trust. Chicago, Il | | "My boolean, why can't you be true?" | Not(Chuck Berry) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Thu Dec 23 13:58:57 EST 1993 Article: 3020 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Specs for 5C collets? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec21.001936.4026@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 19:19:33 -0500 Lines: 42 In article <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax>, writes: > Would someone who owns a collet lathe that uses 5C collets be so kind as to > post the specifications for a 5C collet? > > I have only one home made collet for my lathe and would like to know if it is > 5C compatible before I go and order more collets. > > E-mail or a post to this group , either is fine with me. > > Thanks in advance > > Barry > -- > Barry B. Wolinetz | Opinions etc.... mine, not those of the > Northern Trust Co. | Northern Trust. > Chicago, Il | > | "My boolean, why can't you be true?" > | Not(Chuck Berry) > I don't have the specs, but before you go shopping, I may be able to help you get the most for your money. I recently bought a lathe, and I'm in the process of checking out the very mixed collection of collets (5C's) I have acquired over the years. I have collets from every vendor I know of except Enco, from Hardinge to Phase II. Preliminary results indicate (literally) that Lyndex collets (available from Penn tool for $9 a piece) are generally as accurate as anything I've got. They have sharp edges and aren't polished the way the Hardinge collets are, but they don't cost $30-$40 either. A friend of mine bought a whole bunch of Enco collets, and had to return a bunch for excessive runout. The Lyndex collets have the internal thread in the back, which is required for some collet stops. Many cheap collets do not. Most of the Lyndex collets have basically zero runout, with an occasional one thats out by 4/10ths. I have a few holes in my collection, and after I get the time to check a few more, I'm going to buy Lyndex and spend a few minutes knocking the edges off with an Arkansas stone. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel!rat!zimmer!news Thu Dec 23 13:58:58 EST 1993 Article: 3021 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel!rat!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: Sender: news@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 02:02:12 GMT Lines: 25 There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... what it's good for and what it's not; as well as some rather bizzare applications. Some say it contains water, others say no. Some say it contains alcohol. People use it for a rust protectant, but some say it is no better than any other oil. Is it good for clocks? To spray into a wet distributor? I'd particularly like to know if it is usable as a cutting or tapping fluid. It smells good, so like most other things that smell, taste or feel good, is it bad for you? One guy even says it helps his arthritic joints! So how about a thread on WD40? Let's separate the facts from the fiction. If you have first-hand experience with WD40, how about a comment? But be fair. If your experience is based on only one incident, either good or bad, that may be a result of coincidence or other factors. Be sure of your facts, and let's not libel the WD40 company. And if you have any bizzare stories or rumors, please label them as such. ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!EPLUS17 Thu Dec 23 13:58:59 EST 1993 Article: 3022 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!EPLUS17 From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Lathing a bike seatpost from 30.2 t0 30.0 m Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 21:03:13 CST Organization: C.C.S.O. Lines: 31 Message-ID: <16CAA1281A.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <16CA4D9E8S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> <2f476n$pvl@oak.oakland.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: vmd.cso.uiuc.edu In article <2f476n$pvl@oak.oakland.edu> mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) writes: >In article M16302@mwvm.mitre.org, M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: >> >>I've been told that I could lathe down a 30.2 mm post safely. Any idea where >>I should take this to be done. What sort of machine shop ?? >> >>The post I'm thinking of is made of an alloy referring to in bicyling circles >>as Chrome-Molly. >> > >I doubt it's made of a CrMo alloy. It's probably 6061 T6 aluminum, like most >seatposts. > >While there *are* alloy steel seatposts, they're too thin to turn down. > >--mike > To get longer seatposts of the right diameters for our tandems, I ground 0.2mm off several aluminum alloy seatposts using a bench mounted belt sander; took about 5 minutes per seatpost. In days before my belt sander, I hand filed and sanded several 22.2mm(English) stems to fit into 22.0mm(French) fork steerer tubes; not as quick as with a belt sander, but it can be done. Given the odd shaped lump of metal at the top of the seatpost, I am not sure how easy it would be to turn one down on a lathe. ..Richard > From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!cyrus1 Thu Dec 23 13:59:00 EST 1993 Article: 3023 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!cyrus1 From: cyrus1@netcom.com (Cyrus H. Lendvay) Subject: DuraCharge Message-ID: Followup-To: poster Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 04:35:53 GMT Lines: 5 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:28745 rec.crafts.metalworking:3023 Does anyone have a current address for a company named DuraCharge? My father has one of their cordless drills but they've moved and he needs to get a new battery fo r it. Thanks for the help. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Thu Dec 23 13:59:01 EST 1993 Article: 3024 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: WALKERMM@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: chain mail Date: Tue, 21 DEC 93 00:27:26 EST Organization: Delphi Internet Lines: 28 Message-ID: <931221.01646.WALKERMM@delphi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com dear gental Yes i figure your from or hang areound the SCA. I am both a jeweler of sorts and a metal worker. First let me say that chain mail has been used by just about every metal working society in History including the metal starved Japanies, and a s late as the 1800's in Europe. so what time period are you talking about. The split ring is authentick but you will allways be fixing it as times gose by and is one of the forms that didnot survive as well. The key ring form is closest to the simple fo rm of double link or triple link these are later developements in Europe and I've heard that in the 1800's the quaddruple link would stop a musket ball. The problem was that the ball stoped in the middle of a persons chest taking the chainmail with it. y ou could remove the chainmail from the corpse,wash it off and the chainmail was fine undamaged. Many cultures used a sericies of chainmail and plates allowing higher protection to vital areas flexibilities to all the others. You only had to wory about someone with a heavy gauge ice pick planning to speradding the links, which unsecured links will ea sly do. The best exaples of chainlink patterns out side of very specific texts would be The encilopedia of jewelry making. or something like that it's the one that retails for about $100.00. If your going to use split rings I would recomened that you do what jewelers do for jump rigs slitly twist the ring apart then back together after it's in place. They don't try to pinch the rings closed like a crabs claw. The metals springeness will never allow for a complet closeur. Also I have never seen to need to buy rings when you can buy metal spings or wind the rings on a mandral and then cut them off aas needed most people in the SCA know this trick. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!bmdhh130!iainw Thu Dec 23 13:59:02 EST 1993 Article: 3025 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!bmdhh130!iainw From: iainw@bnr.ca (Iain Woolf) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec21.100507.15445@bnr.ca> Sender: iainw@bnr.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh12 Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK References: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 10:05:07 GMT Lines: 33 In article gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: > > >There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... >what it's good for and what it's not; as well as some rather bizzare >applications. Some say it contains water, others say no. Some say it >contains alcohol. People use it for a rust protectant, but some say it >is no better than any other oil. Is it good for clocks? To spray into >a wet distributor? I'd particularly like to know if it is usable as a >cutting or tapping fluid. It smells good, so like most other things >that smell, taste or feel good, is it bad for you? One guy even says >it helps his arthritic joints! > >So how about a thread on WD40? Some first-hand experience: WD40 *is* good as a moisture dispersant(?) - well it gets rid of water, and so I have found it most effective when my car won't start because its damp. Off with the distributor cap, spray a bit of WD40 in, pop it back on and vroom away.... I wouldn't say its the best penetrating lubricant (coz I don't think it is), but as a thin oil in a can goes, it does its job. (For rusty nuts and bolts, I find a product called "Plus-Gas" to work wonders. I'm only a customer.) WD40 Contains water? Pah! Iain. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Iain Woolf, BNR, Maidenhead UK | My opinions are my opinions /~\__ (0628) 794537 esn 590-4537 | iainw@bnr.ca ^^ O -- O ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Thu Dec 23 13:59:03 EST 1993 Article: 3026 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 1993 12:50:44 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 5 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2f6rf4$56p@oak.oakland.edu> References: <1993Dec21.100507.15445@bnr.ca> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu WD-40 is basically kerosene and DMSO. As such, it's a fine moisture displacer and a good penetrating oil, but a poor lubricant. Good for cleaning parts, too. --mike From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user Thu Dec 23 13:59:04 EST 1993 Article: 3027 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user From: wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Sender: news@bnr.ca (usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: 47.220.4.73 Organization: Bell Northern Research References: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 14:05:18 GMT Lines: 31 In article , gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) wrote: > > > There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... > what it's good for and what it's not; as well as some rather bizzare > applications. In the model airplane community, we use it as an after-run oil. Basically, after a day of flying, we spray some into the carb of the engine, turn it over a few times, connect the battery, and flip start the motor. Yes, these little motors will actually run briefly on a few squirts of WD40. The normal fuel we use attracts water and the WD40 is used to coat the motor inards. So far, after many years of WD40, none of my motors have rust. We also use it for cleaning the engines after an abrupt meeting with tera-firma. On the down side of this WD40 application, if a motor is not used for 5 years, the WD40 in the motor goes ghewy. So for long term storage, one can use transmission oil or reslone (I think that's how to spell it). I've also sprayed it directly onto the wet distributor cap of my car. A good dowsing, and the engine fired right up. Great for driving away water. Lastly, I use it on wet/dry paper when polishing my little engine parts. Bill Webster (WWEBSTER@BNR.CA) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john Thu Dec 23 13:59:05 EST 1993 Article: 3028 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john From: john@cirrus.com (John Wishneusky) Subject: Re: Specs for 5C collets? Message-ID: <1993Dec21.152852.7615@cirrus.com> Sender: news@cirrus.com Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc. Fremont, California References: <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 15:28:52 GMT Lines: 11 In article <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax> bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com writes: >Would someone who owns a collet lathe that uses 5C collets be so kind as to >post the specifications for a 5C collet? > I've a "collet lathe" that uses 5C collets, but I don't see any specs hanging off either the lathe or the collet. Why not boogie over to the nearest library and look them up yourself in a Machinery's Handbook? John From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce Thu Dec 23 13:59:06 EST 1993 Article: 3029 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce From: powers@cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 1993 10:59:41 -0500 Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science Lines: 10 Message-ID: <2f76hdINN3fm@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu> References: <1993Dec21.100507.15445@bnr.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu I use WD40 to remove asphaltum varnish after etching name/date on custom knives. I also carry it to use on damascus steel knives after someone whoose brain has excessive runout has fingerprinted them. It also removes buffing compound residue from pommels and guards; but be careful of porous handle materials around it. Thomas Columbus OH From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Thu Dec 23 13:59:07 EST 1993 Article: 3030 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <1993Dec21.100507.15445@bnr.ca> <2f6rf4$56p@oak.oakland.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 10:27:21 -0500 Lines: 16 In article <2f6rf4$56p@oak.oakland.edu>, writes: > > WD-40 is basically kerosene and DMSO. As such, it's a fine moisture displacer > and a good penetrating oil, but a poor lubricant. Good for cleaning parts, too. > > --mike > DMSO? That's an organic solvent that's particularly efficient at transporting nasty chemicals through the skin. I'm not sure I want to absorb either Kerosene or anything I've washed off of something else into my system. Are you sure about this? I consider this far more worrysome than the water rumor. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Thu Dec 23 13:59:09 EST 1993 Article: 3031 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec21.153953.18086@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 10:39:51 -0500 Lines: 47 In article , writes: > There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... > what it's good for and what it's not; as well as some rather bizzare > applications. Some say it contains water, others say no. Some say it > contains alcohol. People use it for a rust protectant, but some say it > is no better than any other oil. Is it good for clocks? To spray into > a wet distributor? I'd particularly like to know if it is usable as a > cutting or tapping fluid. It smells good, so like most other things > that smell, taste or feel good, is it bad for you? One guy even says > it helps his arthritic joints! > > So how about a thread on WD40? > > Let's separate the facts from the fiction. If you have first-hand > experience with WD40, how about a comment? But be fair. If your > experience is based on only one incident, either good or bad, that may > be a result of coincidence or other factors. Be sure of your facts, > and let's not libel the WD40 company. And if you have any bizzare > stories or rumors, please label them as such. > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu > Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism > CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 The few times I've used it, I've always found that something called LPS-1 works as well (or better?). They appear to be very similar, and may even be chemically identical, I just happen to use the LPS. The same company makes an LPS-2 and 3. LPS-2 is a much heavier lubricant, and 3 is designed to leave a protective residue for long term rust protection ('mothballing'). They also make an 'Electro-Contact Cleaner' that is a good cleaning solvent. I've used LPS to clean up bike chains, lubricate an alarm clock gear train, free up a sticky emergency brake cable, oil the throttle cable on my lawn mower, and countless light lubricating and cleaning jobs. I much prefer Liquid Wrench if I need a penetrating oil. All of these tests are highly subjective. I do seem to recall hosing down something with WD-40 that rusted much more quickly than I thought it should. I don't recall that happening with LPS-1. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj Thu Dec 23 13:59:10 EST 1993 Article: 3032 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj From: rcj@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (R.C. Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <15184@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> Date: 21 Dec 93 16:18:26 GMT References: Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research Co., La Habra, CA Lines: 11 Every time it rains in Orange County (not often). I use WD40 to spray the distributor and spark wires which instantly stops sputtering. WD40 loosens nuts, but over time hardens which tends to 'glue' a nut in place. -- |___________________________________________________________________| >>| Dik Jones, Earth Model Interpretation Internet: rcj@Chevron.com | | Chevron Petroleum Technology Company. Tel: (310) 694-7056 | | La Habra, California 90633-0446 Fax: (310) 694-7063 | From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Thu Dec 23 13:59:11 EST 1993 Article: 3033 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 1993 16:32:04 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 17 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2f78e4$m4n@oak.oakland.edu> References: <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article 17611@ll.mit.edu, Doug White writes: > >In article <2f6rf4$56p@oak.oakland.edu>, writes: >> >> WD-40 is basically kerosene and DMSO... >> >DMSO? That's an organic solvent that's particularly efficient at transporting >nasty chemicals through the skin. I'm not sure I want to absorb either >Kerosene or anything I've washed off of something else into my system. Are >you sure about this? ... Yep. Read it in another forum. It also has some detergents, I believe. The DMSO is why horse trainers spray it on sprains. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!panix!not-for-mail Thu Dec 23 13:59:12 EST 1993 Article: 3034 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!panix!not-for-mail From: sheba@panix.com (Bathsheba Grossman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: milling Everdur Date: 21 Dec 1993 11:31:46 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 8 Message-ID: <2f78di$2pa@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com I find myself milling a lot of Everdur bronze lately, and am wondering if there are any tricks to the stuff. I know large shops keep separate sets of cutters for brass, but don't know exactly what the difference is or if I should be using them for this. I'm using a 3/8" 2-flute end mill at about 2000 rpm, and while it cuts fine, the tool seems to dull awfully quickly. -Sheba (100 lbs scrap and a Sherline. B) ) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!panix!not-for-mail Thu Dec 23 13:59:13 EST 1993 Article: 3035 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!panix!not-for-mail From: sheba@panix.com (Bathsheba Grossman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: anodizing a handful o parts Date: 21 Dec 1993 11:45:43 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 11 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2f797n$4li@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com I rather desperately need anodizing done in small quantities: a few dozen parts at a time. The volume I anticipate doesn't seem to justify investing in my own setup, even if I knew what I was doing and had room for it, but I haven't had any luck locating a commercial service. The phone book has entries under Anodizing, but they aren't very friendly (in fact, they behave like pond scum) to the small occasional. So, does someone know who would do this in the New York area, or by mail? Thanks. -Sheba From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!barrnet.net!nntp.crl.com!crl.crl.com!not-for-mail Thu Dec 23 13:59:14 EST 1993 Article: 3036 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!barrnet.net!nntp.crl.com!crl.crl.com!not-for-mail From: dow@crl.com (Dow Thompson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: need logos for your business? Date: 21 Dec 1993 09:46:05 -0800 Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access (415) 705-6060 [login: guest] Lines: 9 Message-ID: <2f7cot$mnf@crl.crl.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: crl.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] WHAT'S IN A NAME? When it's yours,a lot. It's your most valuable professional asset. A well designed logo will give that name stronger impact. High visability. And staying power. In short, a logo is a potent image builder. My logos tells your customer a lot about you. At first glance, your customed-designed logo suggests a level of success. an established identity, your individuality and exclusively your own. If you need a logo, let me design one for you. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Thu Dec 23 13:59:15 EST 1993 Article: 3037 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: New Departure Message-ID: <1025.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 21 Dec 93 10:22:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 17 I have a copy of a New Departure ball bearing design manual. It's Part II, with Part I presumably being roller bearings, since the ball bearing coverage is quite complete. The manual I have shows design and load factors for automobile applications like transmissions, differentials, and axles. I'd like to get the first manual, and an updated copy of the one I have, which dates from around 1950, best as I can tell. (no date, address, or copyright information in the manual, but it was with a bunch of other late '40s, early '50s engineering books I bought in a package deal) Unfortunately my 1993 Machine Design Vendor Annual doesn't list New Departure, nor do any other listings I have, going back to 1976. Does anyone know what happened to New Departure? Did they change their name, get absorbed, or just go belly up? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!decwrl!parc!richley Thu Dec 23 13:59:16 EST 1993 Article: 3038 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!decwrl!parc!richley From: richley@parc.xerox.com (Ed Richley) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: anodizing a handful o parts Date: 21 Dec 1993 18:46:16 GMT Organization: Xerox Palo Alto Research Center Lines: 11 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2f7g9o$eb5@news.parc.xerox.com> References: <2f797n$4li@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deneb.parc.xerox.com There are two local plating shops that our machine shop uses. I've taken some aluminum to one of them for black anodization. They were pretty obnoxious, but they did it. Basically, a small pile of parts like you could hold in both hands (a dozen or so parts of a few inches typical dimension) fell in under the $50 minimum. Thus, I conclude that plating shops will do a shoebox full of parts for about $50. Look under "plating" in the yellow pages. Ed Richley richley@parc.xerox.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!jabba.ess.harris.com!mlb.semi.harris.com!controls.ccd.harris.com!dmiller Thu Dec 23 13:59:17 EST 1993 Article: 3039 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!jabba.ess.harris.com!mlb.semi.harris.com!controls.ccd.harris.com!dmiller From: dmiller@ccd.harris.com (David E. Miller) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec21.182703.13686@ccd.harris.com> Sender: usenet@ccd.harris.com Organization: Harris Controls Division X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] References: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 18:27:03 GMT Lines: 23 Greg Lewis (gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU) wrote: : There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... . . . . . . : is no better than any other oil. Is it good for clocks? To spray into . . . . . . ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is NOT good for clocks. My father repairs clocks, and he often charges extra when someone brings in a clock that has been WD40'd. It really gums up the works. I have seen the results when I help him. It is not pretty. (off topic) I hand made a pendulum rod with him over Thanksgiving. It looked great if I do say so myself. (back on topic) WD40 is great for many things. Just not clocks. Heck, I've even used it as bug spray in a pinch. -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Excuse me, could you help me? I'm a spy." Tom Baker as the Doctor in _Genesis of the Daleks_ David E. Miller dmiller@ccd.harris.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Thu Dec 23 13:59:18 EST 1993 Article: 3040 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: milling Everdur Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec21.205920.28548@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <2f78di$2pa@panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 15:59:18 -0500 Lines: 39 In article <2f78di$2pa@panix.com>, writes: > > I find myself milling a lot of Everdur bronze lately, and am wondering > if there are any tricks to the stuff. I know large shops keep separate > sets of cutters for brass, but don't know exactly what the difference is > or if I should be using them for this. I'm using a 3/8" 2-flute end mill at > about 2000 rpm, and while it cuts fine, the tool seems to dull awfully > quickly. > > -Sheba (100 lbs scrap and a Sherline. B) ) I'm not sure about your tools dulling quickly, although I think I have heard somewhere that some bronzes can be a bit abrasive. I have recently run into a problem with drilling brass that might help. I was boring a 1/4" hole in some 5/8" brass rod on my lathe. The first drill I tried was brand new, and VERY sharp. It would dig in, and cut off center. I tried varying the feed rate, but I ended up with a hole that was at least 30 thousandths oversize! Attempt No. 2 was done with a drill that I had just about completely removed the rake angle on, using an Arkansas stone. This worked fine. The idea is that brass (and other soft materials, like plastic) is best cut almost with a scraping action, rather than with a sharp edge that can dig in. This can be a lifesaver (literally) on plastic. Many plastics will expand into a hole you are drilling, and grab the drill bit. This can be agravated by having a sharp angle on your drill. Before I learned to regrind my drills and clamp things securely, I had a big piece of PVC ripped out of my hands when it froze on a 1/2" bit. Although I haven't seen them in any of my catalogs, a friend of mine had a set of special drills for brass and plastic that were basically half round, no twist, and no rake. I've seen similar bits for sale, but never an indexed set specifically marked for soft materials. Milling presents its own problems, because its going to be tough to find an end mill with a shallow rake angle, and I'd hate to try to touch one up with a stone. There are a lot of funny specialty mills available, and it might be worth looking for one. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Thu Dec 23 13:59:19 EST 1993 Article: 3041 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Swords Message-ID: <1993Dec21.204313.15204@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 20:43:13 GMT Lines: 16 yku00971@cawc.yorku.ca (Peter Philips) writes: : Does anyone out there make swords? I know it is somewhat of an usual : request but I have always had an intersted in these and have collected them : for several years now. I feel an urge to get another one for my collection : but cannot afford the $150+ for a new one. ANy comments? Please dont : reply on the newsgroup as I do not monitor it regularly. EMAIL is : preffered. Thanks I am going to post here anyway - i case others are curious. Any sword that costs less than $150 is going to be junk. It takes a lot of work and time to make a sword. Most people are not willing to work for $1-$2 an hour. There are many people who could produce a sword for under $150 - but they would not be of a quality to go in a collection. Bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!destroyer!gumby!wmu-coyote!Dale Thu Dec 23 13:59:21 EST 1993 Article: 3042 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!destroyer!gumby!wmu-coyote!Dale From: Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Dale Gee) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec21.220337.21841@sol.cs.wmich.edu> Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept. References: <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> <2f78e4$m4n@oak.oakland.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 22:03:37 GMT Lines: 8 Used WD-40 to salvage a keyboard that had froze up solid from the pepis syndrome Also used it as a hand cleaner. Works great in removing oil and grease. Dale From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Thu Dec 23 13:59:23 EST 1993 Article: 3043 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Fullers in Swords Message-ID: <1993Dec21.204939.15433@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 20:49:39 GMT Lines: 13 johnri@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: : : I have made one sword and am going to start on another soon. My : question is this. How do I clean and smooth the fullers in the blade once : they are forged in. I don't have access to a belt grinder with a small : wheel attachment and I'd rather not spend much money for a new special : fuller cleaning/grinding tool. Any help here would be appreciated. I would rather NOT polish them. I would rather leave the forging marks, to show that they were hand forged, and not simply ground into the metal. Just a personal preference. Bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.tamu.edu!gergo.tamu.edu!burl Thu Dec 23 13:59:24 EST 1993 Article: 3044 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.tamu.edu!gergo.tamu.edu!burl From: burl@gergo.tamu.edu (Burl C. Tanner) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 1993 18:03 CST Organization: Geochemical and Environmental Research Group - TAMU Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: <21DEC199318032623@gergo.tamu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: gergo.tamu.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 In article , gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes... > >There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... i know that it works fine as a water dispersant and for washing off salt residue. i used to work doing oceanographic research and the sea water was always doing something to the electronics and other pieces of equipment. i would have to take electronics enclosures apart on deck to "repair" them. waves crashing over the gun'ales and all. i used wd-40 liberally on the electronics and i had fewer severe problems than a lot of other people. though that "lack of problems" stuff got me sent to sea a lot more often, no money though. burl@gergo.tamu.edu this space for rent, post no bills From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!newstand.syr.edu!mothra.syr.edu!isr Thu Dec 23 13:59:25 EST 1993 Article: 3045 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!newstand.syr.edu!mothra.syr.edu!isr From: isr@mothra.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account) Subject: Split Ring mail Message-ID: <1993Dec21.160614.16091@newstand.syr.edu> Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY Distribution: na Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 16:06:14 EST Lines: 215 If this arrives entact, the last line is 'MIT Lincoln Laboratory' The problem appears to be on the sending end, and I have placed an irate phone call to the bozos who wrote my software. If you could post this, I would appreciate it. Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I originally responded to this thread directly with its originator, Joel Chambers (ravenous@cnj.digex.com) because I didn't expect much interest in this area. Seeing that I was mistaken, I have organized my notes into something a bit more presentable. About 20 years ago, I discovered an easy way to make rust-proof chain mail. The only drawback is that it isn't cheap. However, it's not outrageously expensive either, depending on your personal definition of outrageous. The secret is to buy 'split rings' designed for making fishing lures. These are basically miniature keyrings (the 2-turn overlapping spring variety) used to hold the hooks on fishing lures. At the time, I bought nickel plated spring-steel rings for about a penny a piece from a semi-retail source. This was expensive enough that I only made small pieces of mail for helmets and the like. After complaints that split rings weren't 'authentic', I did some research and found a photo in one of the big armor books of some split-ring mail in a Swiss museum. Unfortunately, I lost my notes on the reference, but Joel is trying to track it down again. Joel is concerned that it won't look enough like classic chain mail to avoid snide comments. I never had too many complaints about general appearance, although that may have triggered some of the 'but it's not authentic!' comments from the usual crowd of people who don't know what they're talking about. You really don't notice the split-ring construction from more than a few feet away. I got out of the armor racket for a while, and about 10 years ago I met someone in the SCA grumbling about how difficult it was to make good mail, and how it rusted etc. etc. I decided that it was worth another look, only this time I was going to go wholesale. A tour through the Thomas Register and some phone calls yielded info from three companies that made rings, and would sell in bulk. Let me start by describing the rings in more detail. As far as shape, they look exactly like miniature key rings. The wire is left round, unlike some keyrings where the wire is formed as two mating semi-circular pieces. Some manufacturer's rings have a series of small dents where the forming equipment 'grabbed' the wire. The rings are available in a range of sizes from about 1/8" OD (a No. 0) to about 3/4" OD (a No. 12). Most old mail is made with a single ring size, but some interesting effects could be had by mixing sizes. The rings are made of nickel or copper-plated spring steel, or in plain or black stainless steel. This gives the possibility of designing a coat of arms into the mail, using different colors. They are also available in nickel-plated or polished brass, but it will be weaker, and not authentic, to the best of my knowledge. You have to be careful when mixing the rings from different sources, because the sizes vary slightly from one vendor to the next. The diameter of the wire used also varies, which makes some of the rings a bit 'thin' looking', while others are more 'chunky'. This will have a big impact on the weight of the final result. Once you know how chain mail is 'woven', linking the rings is a snap (literally). You can buy (or make) a special pair of pliers for linking the rings efficiently, and with minimum damage to the plating. One jaw of the pliers is flat, and the opposing jaw has a wegde shaped point that comes down against the first jaw. The pliers simultaneously hold the ring, and the wedge pries the layers apart to hook them onto another ring. Once you get a ring started this way, a quick twist of the wrist will complete the linking operation. It's almost as fast as working with butted rings, and much faster than riveted or welded rings. The results are gorgeous, and practically indestructable. Bright nickel-plated mail is really lovely stuff. Because the rings are designed for fishing gear, even the plated rings are pretty rust proof. The spring steel is VERY strong. If someone gave me the choice of taking a sword blow in this stuff or any other mail I've seen, I'd vote for this in an instant. Below is a summary of the info I got from the vendors. This is all from 1982, so the prices are certainly out to lunch. These were just the companies that responded to my original inquires. Some of them may have folded, but the Thomas Register can probably supply more. Where possible, I have quoted prices for No. 6 (about 3/8" OD) and No. 10 (about 5/8" OD) rings, because I think that is the useful size range for mail. The exact materials available vary from vendor to vendor. Worth Manufacturing Company Stevens Point, Wisconsin 54481 Worth was one of the biggest tackle supply houses, so they should still be around. Nickel or Copper Plated Steel: No. 6, $7.15/K, No. 10, $12.15/K 3% discount for orders over 25K pieces. Pliers are $8.25 ------------------------------------------------------------- Lakeland Incorporated Tel: (612) 676-3666 Isle, MN 56342 Carry German-made nickel plated rings in sizes up to No. 6, ($8.86/K) Carry US made SS rings up to No. 7. No. 6, $10.82/K 2% discount for quantities over 5K. Pliers are $6.40. ------------------------------------------------------------- ROSCO (Div of Rome Specialty Company) Tel: (800) 448-1206 501 W. Embargo St., Box 109 Rome, NY 13440 Carries US made SS rings. These have the little dents from forming. No. 6, $11.90/K, No. 10, $27.60/K Add $1.00/K for black finish. No quantity discount listed. No pliers listed. If you give them a specific size, most places will send samples along with their literature. Although I like the idea of stainless, I think I prefer the Worth rings. They come in the broadest range of sizes and finishes, and have no forming dents. I did some calculations based on using No. 6 rings, and came up with about $150 for a full mail shirt. Unfortunately, I can't find my notes on that either. Depending upon whether manufacturing technology has improved, this could probably go up or down by $50. I apologize for the antiquity of this data, but I don't have the time to hunt down fresh prices and sources given that I'm out of the armor business again. I have sent photocopies of a bunch of stuff to Joel who is looking into current prices and such. I'm sure he will report on his findings. I hope someone out there takes this idea and runs with it. No one here at the time could work up much enthusiasm for it because of the price. The older one gets, the more valuable time becomes, and this is certainly a fast way to build truly superb mail. It is also possible to make your own rings if time is not an issue. They could be wound on a mandrel in the usual fashion, but you have to come up with an efficient way of cutting ever OTHER wire. If the wire is springy enough (which the SS probably would be) you might be able to do it with a pointy set of wire cutters. The only problem I see with this is that it will leave a million sharp burrs. These could probably be dulled by tumbling with ceramic media (which would also polish the rings). Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!a2i!lps Thu Dec 23 13:59:26 EST 1993 Article: 3046 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!a2i!lps From: lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: Sender: news@rahul.net (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: bolero Organization: a2i network References: Distribution: na Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 00:46:04 GMT Lines: 11 WD40 and a Bic lighter can make a pretty good flamethrower for use with a garbage can full of maggots for instance. They sure wiggle fast then! Kevin Martinez lps@rahul.net -- --------------------------------------- Member of the Vicki Robinson Fan Club Kevin Martinez lps@rahul.net -------------------------------------- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!mercury.arc.ab.ca!news Thu Dec 23 13:59:28 EST 1993 Article: 3047 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!mercury.arc.ab.ca!news From: jed@skyler.arc.ab.ca (Jed Sutherland) Subject: Re: Chain Mail Message-ID: Sender: news@arc.ab.ca (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: mac.7.58.arc.ab.ca Organization: Alberta Research Council References: <1993Dec17.140917.16101@ll.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 22:18:00 GMT Lines: 34 I am looking for information on the technology of making mail because I am interested in the fashion aspects of chain mail (like kilts, bustiers). Do you have any references for books on making mail? >I got out of the armor racket for a while, and about 10 years ago I met >someone in the SCA grumbling about how difficult it was to make good mail, >and how it rusted etc. etc. I decided that it was worth another look, only >this time I was going to go wholesale. A tour through the Thomas Register >and some phone calls yielded info from three companies that made rings, and >would sell in bulk. Could you tell me the names of those companies? How many rings does it take to make, say, a square foot of armour? >Once you know how chain mail is 'woven', linking the rings is a snap >(literally). I am assuming that the rings link with all the adjoining rings. Is that correct? >You can buy (or make) a special pair of pliers for linking the >rings efficiently, and with minimum damage to the plating. One jaw of the >pliers is flat, and the opposing jaw has a wegde shaped point that comes down >against the first jaw. Are there any sources for the pliers? Any drawings available so that I could have one made or modified? Thanks in advance for answering. Jed Sutherland From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!euler.Berkeley.EDU!gaudio Thu Dec 23 13:59:29 EST 1993 Article: 3048 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!euler.Berkeley.EDU!gaudio From: gaudio@euler.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Gaudio) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 22 Dec 1993 01:58:21 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Lines: 16 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2f89jt$7j5@agate.berkeley.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: euler.berkeley.edu 'WD' stands for 'water displacement', useful for blowing off water off circuitry that's already wetted. like most petroleum products, WD-40 reacts with air and becomes acidic, speeding corrosion. i recommend wax or LPS-3 for such protection. WD-40 also removes old adhesive tape residue. faster than denatured, safer than acetone. but i still think it's overrated as a lubricant. and it smells like hell. -steve. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!fsmaw Thu Dec 23 13:59:30 EST 1993 Article: 3049 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!fsmaw From: fsmaw@aurora.alaska.edu Subject: wd40 Message-ID: <1993Dec21.165906.1@aurora.alaska.edu> Lines: 6 Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: aurora.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 01:59:06 GMT just my two cents on the thread about WD40....i'm not a very mechanical person, but WD40 has worked great when i am cleaning up my bicycle at the beginning and end of each summer season....it gets rid of most of the accumulated rust and grime and just generally makes it work more smoothly than before i sprayed and scrubbed it down with the stuff.... From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Thu Dec 23 13:59:32 EST 1993 Article: 3050 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 22 Dec 1993 02:51:41 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 12 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2f8cntINN63o@lynx.unm.edu> References: <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> <2f78e4$m4n@oak.oakland.edu> Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: algodones.unm.edu >>DMSO? That's an organic solvent that's particularly efficient at transporting >>nasty chemicals through the skin. I'm not sure I want to absorb either >>Kerosene or anything I've washed off of something else into my system. Are >>you sure about this? ... >Yep. Read it in another forum. It also has some detergents, I believe. The DMSO >is why horse trainers spray it on sprains. are you telling me that horse trainers spray DW-40 on their horses sprains, or are you saying that they use DMSO? EBo -- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm Thu Dec 23 13:59:33 EST 1993 Article: 3051 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 1993 18:53:23 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 39 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92v (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> gwhite@ll.mit.edu writes: > > > In article <2f6rf4$56p@oak.oakland.edu>, writes: > > > > WD-40 is basically kerosene and DMSO. As such, it's a fine moisture displacer > > and a good penetrating oil, but a poor lubricant. Good for cleaning parts, > too. > > > DMSO? That's an organic solvent that's particularly efficient at transporting > nasty chemicals through the skin. I'm not sure I want to absorb either > Kerosene or anything I've washed off of something else into my system. Are > you sure about this? I consider this far more worrysome than the water rumor. I've quipped that WD-40 is to machines what DMSO is to people a number of times but I don't believe that WD contains any. (For those who don't remember, DMSO was touted as a cure-all a few years back.) Several years ago I had a bad shoulder and a horse-trainer friend had some veterinary-grade DMSO. Helped the shoulder the first couple of times, then I started to develop an allergy to it. My hide would get red and sting like hell. I stay away from it now. (You also get a taste in your mouth that's been described as oysters with garlic. No. I like both, and it doesn't taste like either one.) Point is, I slopped the hell out of some gear with WD last night and got plenty on me. If there was DMSO in it, believe me, I'd know. You'd all be able to hear me howling. I like it for lubricating/driving moisture out of locks, un- squeaking squeaky hinges, stuff like that. Don't use it on guns without making damn sure it's dried out. The carrier, whatever it is, will allegedly get past a crimp and neutralize primers. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA My account My PC My opinion From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm Thu Dec 23 13:59:35 EST 1993 Article: 3052 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: chain mail Date: 21 Dec 1993 18:53:26 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 19 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <931221.01646.WALKERMM@delphi.com> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92v (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <931221.01646.WALKERMM@delphi.com> WALKERMM@delphi.com writes: > > sly do. The best exaples of chainlink patterns out side of very specific texts > would be The encilopedia of jewelry making. or something like that it's the one > that retails for about $100.00. If your going to use split rings I would He might mean "Jewelry - Concepts and Technology" by Oppi Untracht, 1982. Doubleday, New York, NY. Jacket on my copy says $75. Chapter 6 covers wire, and pages 196 through 203 discuss chain mail specifically. Cheers! Neil -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA My account My PC My opinion From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!slindsay Thu Dec 23 13:59:36 EST 1993 Article: 3053 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!slindsay From: slindsay@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steve Lindsay) Subject: Lapidary diamond band saw Message-ID: <1993Dec22.041151.12414@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 04:11:51 GMT Lines: 12 A few weeks ago there was a thread about diamond band saws. I missed most of the thread. Is a diamond band saw just as good as a slab saw plus you can cut circles? Is it slower than a slab saw? I have an old Lapidary Journal (Nov 88) with an ad from Gryphon Corporation with one in it. Does anyone know anything about this brand and what other manufactures are there? Thanks for any help Steve From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrhub2!ncrgw2.ncr.com!psinntp!relay1!unislc!mgc Thu Dec 23 13:59:39 EST 1993 Article: 3054 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrhub2!ncrgw2.ncr.com!psinntp!relay1!unislc!mgc From: mgc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Marc Christensen) Subject: Re: Coal Fired Forge X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] References: <2eq8gdINN97m@softtail.ksu.ksu.edu> Message-ID: <1993Dec20.235652.13066@unislc.slc.unisys.com> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 23:56:52 GMT Lines: 18 Firewalker (mongo@softtail.ksu.ksu.edu) wrote: : I may have the opportunity to aquire a coal fired forge in the near future. : While I hope to do a little trading for it, i was wondering what it was : worth. It is coal fired with a squirrel cage fan. It has an assortment : of hooks, tongs, and miscellaneous other tools with it (but I doubt I could get : the hammers) as well as about 1/3 of a 55 gal barrel of coal. : Aside from wondering what it's worth, does anyone know of a place in Kansas : to get suitable coal?? I would assume you should be able to use charcoal instead. I will sure be cleaner Marc Christensen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrhub2!ncrgw2.ncr.com!psinntp!bluesky!steve Thu Dec 23 13:59:41 EST 1993 Article: 3055 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrhub2!ncrgw2.ncr.com!psinntp!bluesky!steve From: steve@bluesky.com (Steve Hampson) Subject: Re: Lathing a bike seatpost from 30.2 t0 30.0 mm Message-ID: <1993Dec20.201746.381@bluesky.com> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:17:46 GMT References: <16CA4D9E8S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> Organization: Blue Sky Research Lines: 24 In article <16CA4D9E8S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: >I need a mountain bike seatpost that I have not been able to find in the >size I need. I need a 30.0 diam, 400 mm length, with a standard offset to >the rear. > >I've been told that I could lathe down a 30.2 mm post safely. Any idea where >I should take this to be done. What sort of machine shop ?? > >I live in the Washington, D.C. area. > >The post I'm thinking of is made of an alloy referring to in bicyling circles >as Chrome-Molly. A machine shop would probably charge you a minimum. Around here it's about $40. Note that .2mm = .008" aprox. -- not very much. I would be tempted to use a file and emery paper or perhaps find a hobby machinist to turn it down for you. -- Steve Hampson 503 222 9571 Blue Sky Research 800 622 8398 534 SW 3rd Avenue fax 503 222 1643 Portland, OR 97204 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mothost!delphinium.cig.mot.com!galena13!keating Thu Dec 23 13:59:42 EST 1993 Article: 3056 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mothost!delphinium.cig.mot.com!galena13!keating From: keating@rtsg.mot.com (Edward Keating) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 93 17:29:33 GMT Organization: Motorola Cellulsr Infrastructure Group Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: galena13.rtsg.mot.com gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: >There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... >what it's good for and what it's not; as well as some rather bizzare >applications. Some say it contains water, others say no. Some say it >contains alcohol. People use it for a rust protectant, but some say it >is no better than any other oil. Is it good for clocks? To spray into >a wet distributor? I'd particularly like to know if it is usable as a >cutting or tapping fluid. It smells good, so like most other things >that smell, taste or feel good, is it bad for you? One guy even says >it helps his arthritic joints! >So how about a thread on WD40? Kerosene and a bit of a detergent. It does dry, check the film that is left. Kerosene in addition to being a fuel, is also an excellent lubricant. I buy my kerosene in bulk and use it in place of WD40. Smells the same and performs the same functions. (removes labels just as well as WD40.) -- Original by keating@rtsg.mot.com "Flame all you want, we'll make more." "Beware of Geeks bearing gifs." From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!crux.rp.CSIRO.AU!mgoris Thu Dec 23 13:59:44 EST 1993 Article: 3057 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!crux.rp.CSIRO.AU!mgoris From: mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU (Mal Goris) Subject: Pinchbeck Message-ID: <1993Dec20.062209.9036@rp.CSIRO.AU> Keywords: pinchbeck metal Lines: 5 Sender: usenet@rp.CSIRO.AU (Network news) Nntp-Posting-Host: miraculix Organization: CSIRO Division of Radiophysics/Australia Telescope National Facility Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 06:22:09 GMT Has anyone heard of pinchbeck? I have been reading Far from the Madding Crowd by Thomas Hardy in which he refers to it (chapter 22). The footnotes describe it as a cheap alloy made up of five parts copper and one of zinc which looks like gold. It was named after Christopher Pinchbeck, a watchmaker who died in 1732. -- Mal Goris mgoris@rp.csiro.au From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!richard Thu Dec 23 13:59:45 EST 1993 Article: 3058 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!richard From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec21.223917.986@pegasus.com> Organization: Pegasus, Honolulu References: <1993Dec21.100507.15445@bnr.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 22:39:17 GMT Lines: 17 >Some first-hand experience: WD40 *is* good as a moisture dispersant(?) >- well it gets rid of water, and so I have found it most effective >when my car won't start because its damp. Off with the distributor >cap, spray a bit of WD40 in, pop it back on and vroom away.... > > [...] > >WD40 Contains water? Pah! > I have a vague recollection of some Navy types on the net saying that WD40 was banned from sea-duty because it attracts water, and eventually causes rust. -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bnr.ca!cav Thu Dec 23 13:59:47 EST 1993 Article: 3059 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bnr.ca!cav From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Coal Fired Forge Date: 22 Dec 1993 14:49:46 GMT Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2f9mqa$hae@bmerha64.bnr.ca> References: <2eq8gdINN97m@softtail.ksu.ksu.edu> <1993Dec20.235652.13066@unislc.slc.unisys.com> Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) NNTP-Posting-Host: bmerh364.bnr.ca In article <1993Dec20.235652.13066@unislc.slc.unisys.com>, mgc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Marc Christensen) writes: |> Firewalker (mongo@softtail.ksu.ksu.edu) wrote: |> |> : I may have the opportunity to aquire a coal fired forge in the near future. |> : While I hope to do a little trading for it, i was wondering what it was |> : worth. It is coal fired with a squirrel cage fan. It has an assortment |> : of hooks, tongs, and miscellaneous other tools with it (but I doubt I could get |> : the hammers) as well as about 1/3 of a 55 gal barrel of coal. |> |> : Aside from wondering what it's worth, does anyone know of a place in Kansas |> : to get suitable coal?? |> |> I would assume you should be able to use charcoal instead. I will sure be |> cleaner |> |> Marc Christensen |> |> |> Cleaner yes, but MUCH more expensive. Charcoal burns very fast in a forge, and (I understand) that you have to use real wood charcoal, not the briquets that have been pressed out of charcoal dust (they contain a binding agent that causes problems). Not sure how easy it is to get up to welding temp. with charcoal in a conventional forge. In our area, good forge coal is not that easy to find. You need connections. I suggest you contact blacksmiths and/or blacksmith's associations in your area. I think the coal I've got in the past originated in Pennsylvania, and changed hands a number of times before it got to me. Once my forge is up and running again, I'll have to get more. That 1/3 of a barrel should last you some time while you look for a local source. Used intelligently, coal is a very economical fuel. Cheers, Rick C. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Thu Dec 23 13:59:48 EST 1993 Article: 3060 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Specs for 5C collets? Message-ID: <1993Dec22.085940.177@flying-disk.com> Date: 22 Dec 93 08:59:40 PST References: <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 27 In article <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax>, bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com writes: > Would someone who owns a collet lathe that uses 5C collets be so kind as > to post the specifications for a 5C collet? When I needed detailed information on 5C collets, I called Hardinge Brothers, Inc. They responded by FAXing a copy of their engineering sketch ("For identification purposes only") of it. If anyone needs a copy, just send a SASE to me at the address below. I also have their sketches for the R8, 3C and 1A collets. These sketches are considerably more detailed than the ones in their catalog. If you are *really* desperate I can FAX it to you. To aid in identification of 5C collets: Overall length: 3-27/64" Shank diameter: 1-1/4" Taper angle: 10 degrees Outside Thread: 1-15/64-20 Threaded length: 19/32" -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!taco!escott Thu Dec 23 13:59:50 EST 1993 Article: 3061 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!taco!escott From: escott@eos.ncsu.edu (Erik Scott) Subject: Re: New Departure Message-ID: <1993Dec22.164211.21315@ncsu.edu> Originator: escott@c00037-5pa.eos.ncsu.edu Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: escott@eos.ncsu.edu (Erik Scott) Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos References: <1025.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 16:42:11 GMT Lines: 13 dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes: > Does anyone know what happened to New Departure? Did they change their > name, get absorbed, or just go belly up? Just a few clues: About ten years ago I saw a couple of boxes of bearings marked "New Departure Hyatt" with a GM logo above the name. Makes sense that a maker of bearings for transmissions, differentials, and axles would attract the interest of GM. Probably swallowed whole. :-) -- Erik Scott From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!woods.uml.edu!rondeauda1 Thu Dec 23 13:59:51 EST 1993 Article: 3062 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!woods.uml.edu!rondeauda1 From: rondeauda1@woods.uml.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Lathing a bike seatpost from 30.2 t0 30.0 mm Date: 22 Dec 93 12:58:43 -0500 Organization: University of Massachusetts Lowell Lines: 8 Message-ID: <1993Dec22.125843.1@woods.uml.edu> References: <16CA4D9E8S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: aspen.uml.edu In article <16CA4D9E8S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org>, M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: > I need a mountain bike seatpost that I have not been able to find in the > size I need. I need a 30.0 diam, 400 mm length, with a standard offset to > the rear. Try a local vocational high school. I'm sure they would be happy to help out. As long as the stock is provided, most vocational will do all machining for free. From jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu Wed Dec 29 21:20:52 EST 1993 Article: 2859 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 0 of 4 Message-ID: <1993Dec1.092535.1010@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Dec 93 09:25:35 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 0: Introduction to this month's FAQ Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Dec 93 09:25:36 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 20 I am about to post the latest revision to the FAQ. Let me know if this needs to get split into more parts, e.g. due to news system limitations on item size. Changes: Mason & Sullivan is back as a clock/parts supplier. Crafts Council information in part 4. Rio Grande is now River Gems and Findings Added a new topic, "What is Damascus steel?" which required re-shuffling the parts to balance the sizes. Revised the Unimat discussion, as they only appear to sell the CNC/PC type. Added a negative opinion of Enco. Keep the suggestions coming in! Jim Kirkpatrick jimkirk@uwyo.edu From jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu Wed Dec 29 21:20:53 EST 1993 Article: 2860 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 1 of 4 Message-ID: <1993Dec1.092542.1011@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Dec 93 09:25:42 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 1 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Dec 93 09:25:42 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 598 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 1 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? The questions being answered in part 2: 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. The questions being answered in part 3: 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. The following is the original rec.crafts.metalworking charter, for reference. Charter ------- Charter -- REC.CRAFTS.METALWORKING The USENET newsgroup, rec.crafts.metalworking, is a newsgroup which discusses various aspects of working with metal, such as (but not limited to): machining, as on a lathe, milling machine, grinder, etc.; numerical control of such machines; welding, whether by gas, arc, mig, tig, thermite, or other methods; Metal joining, whether welding, brazing, soldering, riveting, screwing, folding, etc. (this section was added during the discussion) casting various metals by various methods; hardening/tempering various metals; blacksmithing/forging; spinning and hammer work; sheet metal work; jewelry-making; purchasing and/or reconditioning metalworking tools and machinery; interesting projects; books on metal technologies and history; Example areas of interest: knife/sword making; automotive repair; steam engine (model/scale, though full-sized discussions are welcome!); art work, such as bronze castings and sculptures; gunsmithing; toolmaking, such as for woodworking, further metalworking, etc.; While the bulk of the discussion will probably be directed towards small-scale "home" shops, industrial/production discussions are also quite welcome. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. If you have access to Bitnet and are interested in clocks/watches, there is a CLOCKS list. Send mail to LISTSERV@SUVM on Bitnet, containing the command "SUBSCRIBE CLOCKS your name". Their "charter" is: Welcome to the CLOCKS Listserv list. This is a new attempt at communicating information about clocks between those interested in ANY aspect of clocks. To quote from the header text for CLOCKS: > * Clock/Watch Repair, Collecting, and Construction > > CLOCKS is a discussion list dealing with any and all aspects of > clock and watch work. > > The list's primary goal is to discuss the collecting, > construction, and repair of both clocks and watches. Included > also are topics on the history of time keeping, wooden movements, > water clocks, antique and modern clocks, etc. Of great interest > is information about suppliers of repair and construction parts > and techniques, information, books, newsletters, national and > local associations. Another interest is the use of clock/watch > tools, such as the watchmakers lathe, bushing replacement, time > regulation, etc. > > The list welcomes the participation and contribution from anyone > interested in the subject area, whether an amateur, beginner, or > professional. I can't give you a cookbook approach on how to get to Bitnet if you aren't on it. This varies from site to site, so you should ask your system administrator "how do I get e-mail to/from Bitnet?" As one example, at our Internet site, we add ".bitnet" on the end, so for us the address would be LISTSERV@SUVM.BITNET. There is also a Usenet newsgroup rec.woodworking that may be of interest to people who read rec.crafts.metalworking. 3. What are some good books on metalworking? - How to Run a Lathe South Bend Lathe 400 W. Sample Street South Bend, IN 46623 This book is available from South Bend distributors, such as Blue Ridge, and/or Lindsay. It was originally printed in 1914 and last updated in 1966, I believe. - Machine-Tool Work, by William P Turner and Halsey F Owen. 1932 and 1945 (hence no ISBN number). Some libraries may still have a copy, though you're probably out of luck for a purchase. Moderately good text, very good diagrams and pictures, especially of huge special-purpose machines like railroad wheel grinders. Suffers a bit from age, and seems intended for large industrial shops, but a good read if you find it. - Machine Shop Theory and Practice, by Albert M Wagener and Harlan R Arthur. 1941 (hence no ISBN number). Some libraries may still have a copy, though you're probably out of luck for a purchase. Fairly good text, more specific techniques than the Turner/Owen book. Suffers a bit from age, but still a nice instructional book. - Lathe Operations, by Richard R. Kibbe. 1985, ISBN 0-471-89023-5. Adapted from materials originally prepared by the Engineering Industry Training Board of Great Britain. Also in the same series: Milling Machine Operations, and Grinding Machine Operations. A step-by-step text with about 2 photos and lots of simple but usually-clear drawings. Shows how to do most any common lathe operation (and a few uncommon ones) in as few words as possible. Check page 90 for what seems to be a man with two right hands. - The Making of Tools, by Alexander G Weygers Prentice Hall Press, 1973, ISBN 0-671-60924-6 A modern book about doing things the old way. How the artist/craftsperson can design, make, sharpen and temper tools. May be available from Centaur Forge. - Machinery's Handbook A standard reference book for machinists, available from most distributors of machines or tools. - Clockmaking & Modelmaking; tools and techniques by W.R. Smith Mr. Smith has published other books on clockmaking, but this one covers more than just clocks, and is thus of interest to more than just clock-makers. This is a collection of articles from the British Horological Journal, Timecraft, Model Engineer, and Horological Times. The articles have been updated and expanded for inclusion in this 112-page coil-bound book. For a complete review, see HSM Jan/Feb 1992, page 14. Available from Gateway Clocks (see names/addresses section), $27 post-paid within USA (overseas buyers add $5 for postage). - Elmer's Engines, by Elmer Verberg available from Modeltec Has many very nice, and fairly easy to build stationary steam engines. - Model Locomotive and Marine Boilers [Argus Press, 1988, ISBN 0-85242-923-1] by Martin Evans (well known in the Model Engineering field, at least in Great Britain) - THE MACHINIST's BEDSIDE READER Guy Lautard 2570 Rosebery Avenue West Vancouver, B.C., Canada V7V 2Z9 (Guy's books are also available from other suppliers, such as Village Press, I believe. J.K.) Contains: Working drawings and detailed instructions for making 15 useful and practical machinists tools and lathe accessories; dozens of hints, tips and tricks to help get things done faster, easier and better in your shop; a collection of 2 dozen machine shop anecdotes; 2 highly readable machinists short stories. Projects include: a sharpening jig for drill from 1/8 to #60, a swiveling base for a 2" Wilton vise, a graduated handwheel for the lathe leadscrew.........and many more THE MACHINIST"S SECOND BEDSIDE READER Similar in format to the first book; projects include: a small pantograph engraving machine, a tool maker's block, poor man's jig borer and a kerosene-burning blowtorch....... also a short story titled "The Bullseye Mixture" which details the method for barbon pack color casehardening. Other books and plans by Lautard (not a complete list): "Hey Tim, I gotta tell ya....' a mini Bedside Reader" "A Brief treatise on Oiling Machine Tools" "3.75' Diameter Ungeared Rotary Table" "Universal Sleeve Clamp" Lautard's targeted readership seems to be the home machinst. I'm sure that much of what he has to say may be "old hat" to a skilled machinist with many years experience. I confess that I am a rank amateur in machine shop practice (my only professional experience was as a part-time helper in a gunsmith shop where the machine I got to know best was the polishing wheel). The flyer I quote from is available from Lautard at the address I gave with my last posting. [reviews and typing courtesy of Michael Gordon] It has also been reported that Guy sells an index of some sort, either of all projects or all articles, in the back issues of Model Engineer. However, the index is reportedly hard to use. See the description of Model Engineer, elsewhere. - The Surface Treatment and Finishing of Aluminum and its Alloys, Edited by S. Wernick, R. Pinner, and P.G. Sheasby. Published 1987 by ASM International, Metals Park, Ohio. 2 volumes. Mentioned in sci.materials in response to a "how do I anodize aluminum" question. - Electroplating for the Amateur, by L. Warburton. Model & Allied Publications Available via Argus (see names & addresses section) Also mentioned, in rec.crafts.metalworking, regarding anodizing. - Machine Tool Practices, fourth edition, John Wiley and Sons. Covers a lot of ground and is the first-year book at DeAnza College. -------------------------------------------------------------------- The following suggested books pertain to jewelry-making, per Sherry Lem. The Complete Metalsmith Tim McCreight Davis Publications, Inc. Worcester, MA, 1991 Excellent, easy to follow techniques for beginning to intermediate levels, this is the revised edition which is much improved over the original. Contemporary Jewelry Philip Morton Holt, Rinehart & Winston NY, 1970, 1976 Interesting design philosophy, techniques. Design and Creation of Jewelry Robert vonNeumann Chilton Radnor, PA, 1961, 1972 Form Emphasis for Metalsmiths Heikki Seppa Kent State University Press Kent, OH 1978 Perhaps THE book on anticlastic raising/forming, though difficult to teach yourself from the pictures and instructions. Jewelry Concepts and Technology Oppi Untracht Doubleday & Company Garden City, NY, 1982, 1985 Most comprehensive guide on jewelry making techniques, also contains gemological data, info on setting up a workshop . Jewelry: Contemporary Design and Technique Chuck Evans Davis Publications Worcester, MA, 1983 Especially good sections on mixed metals (mokume gane, etc.). Jewelry Making and Design Augustus F. Rose and Antonio Cirino Dover Publications, Inc. NY, 1949, 1967 Decidedly English flavor, very inexpensively priced. Jewelry Making Manual Sylvia Wicks Brymorgen Press Cape Elizabeth, ME, 1986 Beautiful color photos, good technique instructions. Jewelry Manufacture and Repair Charles Jarvis Bonanza, NY, 1978 Metal Sculpture - New Forms New Techniques John Lynch The Viking Press NY, NY Basic art metal techniques. Metal Techniques for Craftsmen Oppi Untracht Doubleday & Company Garden City, NY, 1968 -------------------------------------------------------------------- How about video tapes? - New Life Video Productions P.O. Box 175 Traverse City, MI 49685 Several tapes with Rudy Kouhoupt, frequent author in HSM and other magazines. Titles such as "Fundamentals of Machine Lathe Operation," "How to Cut Spur Gears," "How to Cut Threads" and others. Price varies from tape to tape. Production qualities seem poor (based on viewing the first title), such as poor and inconsistent audio, including a radio playing in the background. But you can safely ignore this and concentrate on what Rudy is trying to show you. Seems reasonably priced for the material covered. - Baily Craftsman Supply P.O. Box 276, Dept HSM Fulton, MO 65251 One tape so far, "Greensand Casting Techniques" from David Gingery's workshop. HSM seemed to like it. - Colonial Williamsburg (sorry, no address at this moment) CW produces several tapes on blacksmithing, silversmithing, gunsmithing, and so on. They show the "old time" way of doing things, but are reported to be excellent. 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? Who makes good cars? This is almost purely a personal preference, though in general the imported machines (Grizzly, Jet, Enco) seem to rate lower than US-built machines (South Bend, Bridgeport). However, the imports are usually MUCH less expensive, offsetting some of the quality issues for home shops. It has also been reported that South Bend has been going "downhill" lately. There is some indication that Grizzly equipment is slightly better than other "Taiwanese" machines. One of the main complaints about Taiwanese machinery is the lack of replacement parts and service. Grizzly claims that they keep a supply of parts on hand for all their machines. The same factories appear to turn out Grizzly, Jet, Delta, and the "no-name" machinery. A few years ago Fine Woodworking magazine published an article on this subject. Unimats are sometimes considered "toys" rather than real machines, though they may do just what you want if you don't push them hard. The Unimat PC may be a nice small CNC lathe; any experiences? Unimat, Sherline, and Taig are "micro lathes" in that the swing over the bed is less than 5 inches, and the bed is about a foot long. Sherline and Taig are made in the US, and Unimat is made in Austria (and hence uses metric threads, e.g. in the spindle thread, which may be a pain to US buyers). Sherline and Taig both use 3/4 inch x 16 threads in the spindle and can thus interchange accessories. The Taig cannot cut threads, while the Sherline and Unimat can (with accessories). Sherline and Unimat sell a milling add-on. The Taigs come in unbundled kit form where you have to buy everything; they claim an overall accuracy of .0004 inch and have excellent parts and service, and also sell a watchmaking headstock. Taig is the cheapest at about $250 to get started, about $450 for Sherline. It appears the only Unimat now being sold is the CNC "Unimat PC", at about $750. Unimat seems to charge quite a bit more than normal for accessories. Just keep in mind that these are not as rigid or powerful as full-sized lathes. Harbor Freight sells a "precision 4x10" mini-lathe for around $700 with autofeed, change gears for most english threads at extra cost. It is actually a 7" lathe which takes standard 2MT tailstock tooling and 3/8" cutting tools, and has Electronic Variable Speed (EVS) instead of changeable belts. This is larger and sturdier than the Unimat/Sherline/Taig, and sounds similar to the 8" Grizzly except for the EVS. What can you do if you have little money? Aside from looking at used equipment, you can actually build a lathe and other machine tools. Dave Gingery wrote an excellent series of books on building your own machine tools with just hand tools. While it's a lot of work, you can learn a lot. First you make an aluminum charcoal foundry, then a lathe, and finish up with a dividing head (five or six books later). Other authors have published detailed plans for making lathes. See the publisher's catalogs from Lindsay, Cole's, Power Model, Tee, and Argus. 5. Where do I buy a machine? Check out the Yellow Pages, the ads in the magazines, and catalogs from the "names and addresses" section elsewhere in this FAQ. For example: Blue Ridge Machinery and Tools, Inc Alley Supply Company Enco Grizzly 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? - The Home Shop Machinist (HSM), "dedicated to precision metalworking" Published 6/year by Village Press (see addresses section), $24.50/year. Note that many back issues are not available, though most of the projects are available in the "Projects" book series. Mostly techniques, no steam, some gasoline engine projects, many tooling projects. Probably the best of the US magazines. Some projects will span several issues. - Projects In Metal (PIM). Published 6 times per year by Village Press, $19. Only projects, no advertisements! Each project is complete in one issue. A "weak sister" to HSM, apparently started in part to handle overflow projects from HSM. Earlier back-issues have been combined into a new book series called "Metalworking". - Live Steam Magazine. Published 6 times per year by Village Press, $31. Mostly trains, some techniques, some stationary engines, lots of history and club information. Usually each issue has one stationary engine and two locomotive construction projects in various stages. - Model Engineer's Workshop Published bimonthly by Argus Described as the British version of HSM, and similar to the tool-oriented writing in Model Engineer. U.S. subscription rate is $38. More "packed" than HSM, and features the uniquely English way of doing machining (e.g., spending hours to make a cutter to make the cutter for gear cutting, when many of us in the US would just order the gear cutter and be done with it). - Modeltec. "Machinist Projects of Beauty and Usefulness" Published by George R. Broad, 12 per year. P.O. Box 1226 St. Cloud, MN 56302 Phone: (612) 654-0815 $31 per year ($38 in U.S. funds if outside U.S) Similar to Live Steam but not restricted to trains. Lots of projects for railroad cars. - Strictly IC (IC stands for Internal Combustion) Published 6 times per year $24.25 (+$2.00 US foreign, WA residents add $2.00 sales tax) Robert A. Washburn, editor 24920 43rd Avenue S. Kent, WA 98032 Concentrates on construction of miniature internal combustion engines, and has a few classified ads, usually for engine castings. - Gas Engine Magazine P.O. Box 328 Lancaster, PA 17603 (717) 392-0733, (717) 392-1341 (FAX) - Model Engineer Published biweekly, about $80/year Argus Specialist Publications Ltd. The king of model machining magazines it has been around for about 100 years. Varied construction articles, lots on trains. Some projects can take years to complete! Extensive back-issues are available from Tee (q.v.), and we presume from Argus since they publish it in the first place! An index to back issues is available from: G.V. Wilkinson 129 Springside Road Hillcrest 3610 South Africa The index used to cost 30 pounds sterling, and is reportedly much better than Guy Lautard's. - Engineering in Miniature Published monthly, about $30/year. Tee Publishing Similar to Model Engineer, more steam traction engines. Has an extensive collection of back issues of this and other model magazines. - Clockmaker Published 6 times per year, around $30/year Tee Publishing Discusses how to build mechanical clocks, with many projects spanning several issues. Big names like John Wilding write in this magazine. Classified ads for clockmaking supplies. - Workshop Masters Published by Tee, ceased regular publication in 1991. - Horn & Whistle Richard Weisenberher 2655 North Friendship, Lot #8 Paducah, Kentucky 42001 $18 per year. Low budget, in that they publish anything people send in. Some technology, some nostalgia, lots of stuff on meets where they get together and have "steam blasts." - Traction Engine Magazine - The Anvil's Ring This is the publication of ABANA (see below, associations) published 6 times a year; cost is $24 per year, or you get it as part of the $35 dues for joining ABANA. - Anvil Published monthly, about $30 per year See Centaur Forge, elsewhere. - American Craft (bi-monthly) (jewelry) published by the American Craft Council 40 West 53rd St. New York, NY 10019 (212)956-3535 Current work in metal, clay, glass, wood, textiles, mixed media; featured artists, calendar of events. - Metalsmith (quarterly) (jewelry) published by Society of North American Goldsmiths (SNAG) 5009 Londonderry Drive Tampa, FL 33647 (813)977-5326, (813)977-8462 fax Jewelry, techniques, featured artists, current exhibits - Ornament (quarterly) P.O. Box 2349 San Marcos, CA 92079 Jewelry (metal and beads) and textile/fiber art 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? This depends on several factors, mostly where you live. Good places to check out include community colleges (universities sometimes will have classes in metalworking, but perhaps only for already-enrolled students or faculty/staff). Sometimes a high school will offer night or weekend classes to the public, funding permitting. Also look for vocational/technical schools, and possibly even art schools since some metal sculpturing requires a firm background in welding. In a few cases there may be specialized schools in your area, so check your yellow pages or ask around. Some examples: John C. Campbell Folk School in Brasstown NC (800) 562-2440, Craft Center in Ripley WV. Some schools also offer room and board and/or campground hookups. From jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu Wed Dec 29 21:20:53 EST 1993 Article: 2861 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 2 of 4 Message-ID: <1993Dec1.092554.1012@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Dec 93 09:25:54 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 2 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Dec 93 09:25:54 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 557 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 2 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12. How do I wire up this strange motor? (with thanks to Bill Brown) The following describes how to deal with an AC/DC "universal" motor that has 4 unmarked wires coming out. Be sure you don't have some other motor, such as a 3-phase unit. Other motors are covered in an FAQ for the newsgroup rec.woodworking. The FAQ postings (six of them) for rec.woodworking are normally posted around the first of each month, and possibly also posted to the newsgroup news.answers. I can't say how long *your* news system will choose to keep these around! Look for "Frequently Asked Questions about Electric Motors." Also, the "Electrical Wiring FAQ" may be of interest. The universal motor is called that because it can run on AC or DC. Older units might have been designed this way because very early power distribution had not settled on AC or DC, or with 50 or 60 cycles. Thus, such a motor could be used universally, in all locations provided the voltage was within reason. This still may be a concern with some on-site jobs feeding power tools from DC sources such as portable welding rigs. Another nice thing about these motors is that they are easily reversible. They are also easily speed-controlled, such as in hand drills, whereas induction motors prefer to run at or near synchronous speed. The first task is to determine which two wires go to the armature, and which go to the field winding. If you can't tell by examining where the wires go (or the nameplate), get an ohmmeter and connect it to the wires until you find two that show some continuity. Rotate the shaft slowly by hand and note if the resistance changes as you turn it. If it does, you probably have the armature, and the fluctuations are due to the brushes making and breaking contact with the commutator. The other winding (field coil) should show a steady resistance. Presuming you want the ability to reverse the motor, find a switch that can handle the rated current, in the double-pole-double-throw configuration with a center-off position. The suggested hook-up is (as usual, a bad ASCII graphic): +-------------------+ 1 | | 2 ----------FIELD-------o<--O o A 0 white \ / R \ / M V X A O / \ T L black / \ U T ----------------------o<--O o E S | | +-------------------+ NOTE: no connection at "X"; Include a green-wire frame ground if at all possible Avoid reversing the motor while it is moving in the "other" direction as this could severely stress the switch and motor (particularly the brushes). Move the switch to the center (off) position, and continue on to the other direction after the motor has stopped. Please, always be careful when dealing with electricity. If you don't feel comfortable and safe doing such a hook-up, find someone who can do it for you, or at least who can check what you're doing. 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? The following suggestions were offered by Stu Friedberg -- Get the catalogs and know what you want. There are often many sizes, models, and sources of an "X", so you need to know which particular X when you write and especially when you call to place an order. Even the smallest industrial supply houses deal in tens of thousands of items, which means even very knowledgeable order-takers can't always give you the information you need over the phone. Reserve queries about details for stuff that you couldn't figure out for yourself. Many of the order takers are very helpful and knowledgeable. At *SOME* sources the order takers can actually go look in the stock bins, take a micrometer to measure a shaft diameter, etc. I have had people at three different companies do something like this for me. However, some companies have computerized centralized order taking at a location completely separate from their stocking locations, so don't *assume* people can tell you anything that's not written in the catalog. I've had one company tell me to just order a set of change gears and return them if I couldn't use them. This wasn't crazy, the order taker simply had no relevant information available. Get the catalogs and shop around. Very often there are *big* differences in price between identical items, and even more often one source will have a unique or slightly different item at an excellent price compared to the "standard" item. There are lots of reasons for this. I have seen 2 to 1 price ratios on things like shim stock (from the same manufacturer) and "can't twist" clamps (from different manufactures but of equal quality). Occasionally, you will find 10 to 1 price ratios on things like boxes of hose clamps. Great deals if you look around. If you can, examine a tool at a local store (where the prices may be higher) to see what the quality is like, before placing the order by mail or telephone. You can also learn a great deal by perusing the catalogs, both about tools in general, and about specific details of specific tools. There's seldom enough room in a catalog to print all the manufacturer's data, but different sources will select different stuff to print. I have many times used one company's catalog to select the precise thing I wanted, then bought it from another company because the price was better. Most suppliers ship quickly if they have a credit card authorization. If they don't ship within two working days on a routine basis, shop somewhere else in the future. One full working day is quite common. I have had only one bad incident in the 4 or 5 years I've been buying industrial stuff by telephone, and came through with no losses. A supply company (which entered bankruptcy proceedings just a little while ago, by the way) charged my credit card for the full amount of my order, didn't ship for a month, and was completely clueless as to when they would ship my order. That is intolerable, and protection against abuse like that is one good reason to use a credit card rather than sending a check. You don't need to sue to get your money back if the merchant doesn't come through. (If it's not obvious, I got my money back and started to throw out that company's catalogs as they arrived.) Some industrial suppliers don't do back orders because it slows things down. The stock pickers send what's in stock and mark out of stock items on the invoice. This may be a little different from retail mail order sources you've dealt with in the past. Contact them about what's in stock and when it's expected to be available. Be prepared to return an item. Having to return an item because it was misshipped, defective, or of unsatisfactory quality is *NOT* an indictment of the supplier. If you do enough shopping for industrial supplies, you will find that you have to do a partial return maybe 1 time in 5. Don't get mad; don't get upset. It's routine. Industrial supply and consumer retail have different expectations about quality control. When you return an item, follow instructions. Many, but not all, suppliers require you to contact them for a "return authorization" number, which you must write on the outside of the package. You should include a copy of the invoice in the package. This is *NOT* an opportunity for the supplier to screw you over. This is a routine matter, and most of them just ask you to note on the invoice what was wrong and if you want credit, a refund, an exchange for something else, or whatever. 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? This is actually a tricky subject, and beyond the scope of this FAQ. However, an excellent book on sharpening knives and similar tools is: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranitch. 1985 by Warner Books, ISBN 0-446-38002-4, $12.50 This book can sometimes be found in the larger knife stores, such as frequently found in USA malls (e.g. Cutlery World). It is a bit biased in that John also sells sharpening equipment, but the techniques are fundamental and can be used with competitor's equipment such as Lansky's. Another source for the book is Knife World Books, (800) 828-7751 Ext 71. Sharpening drill bits has never seemed easy. If you have lots of money, Darex makes drill and mill sharpeners, and Glendo's Accu- Finish line addresses simpler cutting bits (and they even re-sell some Darex tools in conjunction with their grinders). Black and Decker reportedly make a decent drill sharpener (1/8" to 1/2") for around $250. Some of the magazines will print articles from time to time on sharpening, and/or building sharpening equipment. 15. The following text on safety was donated by Gary Preckshot: The forces involved in metalworking machinery are far higher than most people expect. You can either be struck by shrapnel or pulled into a machine by being caught by a moving part. There are several rules that reduce these hazards: a) Don't wear loose clothes, ties, unsecured braids, or jewelry. b) Turn off machines and *WAIT* for rundown before approaching the working area. You'll spend a lot more time in an ER than you'll ever save by jumping in right away. c) Don't snap chips using a shop towel. Use a brush or air. d) Don't mess with long chips curling off a turning. If you get build up, stop the machine and remove the chips wearing leather gloves and using pliers. e) Keep power transmission belts of any kind isolated and guarded. Flat leather belts are especially hazardous because they tend to be unguarded on crowned cone pulleys. If in doubt, add more clamps. If in doubt, chuck more deeply or use a collet. A turning that comes adrift can damage both the lathe and you. A workpiece that shifts can damage both the mill and you. Stuff gets hot when cut. Let it cool before picking it up. Metal cutting generally leaves a sharp burr. Break the edges with a file or a de-burring tool before you release the work for general handling. Don't let kids, wives, husbands, girlfriends, or boyfriends close to metalworking operations without training or close supervision. Chips are extremely sharp. Long, curled chips from lathe turnings are especially dangerous because kids, wives, husbands, girlfriends, or boyfriends see only how pretty they are. You can get a very deep cut by handling such chips with your hands. Have a system for removing and storing chips. Use it regularly. Use eye protection - ALWAYS. Beware of fascination. Metal cutting tools flash and glint as they spin. An unwary person may reach toward the pretty, shiny tool. This is no joke. It happens. Then you take a trip to the local ER. Don't watch welding without adequate dark glass filters. You can get a tan in 2 minutes and a burn in five on any exposed skin close to arc welding. It doesn't hurt for about 3 hours, but then it hurts for days. Cover up. Don't play with air. Not only can it inject chips (by blowing them) into your body, but it can inject oily air as well. Sometimes right through the skin. Air is no joke. In general, no horseplay in the shop. Banish anybody who can't understand this simple rule. This is one place where absolute dictatorship is better than democracy. Take your time. You'll save on rework time, machine repair, and medical costs. 16. How do I drill round holes? In May 1993 the following question was posted. This brought a lot of useful suggestions for a problem often seen ... Subject: I can't drill round holes I am trying to drill 1/4" holes in 3/32" mild steel with a H/S twist bit in a 12" Delta bench press. The holes are not round. They tend towards the triangular. The piece I am drilling has a 1 1/4" square cross section. The distortion is worst in the exit hole through the bottom of the member. What is going on? Is there anything I can do to correct the problem? Morgan Hall gave the following shot as to how a simple twist drill manages to create a non-circular hole: Hint -- look at the rotor and housing of a Mazda rotary engine You can model the working end of a drill bit as a single straight line of finite length. If you fix one end and try to rotate it, the opposite end of the line sweeps out an arc. (the drill flexes) After about 1/3 revolution, the stuck end breaks free and sweeps out another arc while the formerly free end sticks. With alternate ends sticking, then breaking free, the arcs will form a kind of polygon with arcs of radius equal to the drill's diameter. After the first cuts, the "corners" of the polygon tend to stop the sweeping cut for each drill flute. The most common I've seen is the triangular hole, but other polygons are definitely possible. I suspect that this occurrence is related to some sort of resonance in the drilling setup. The suggestions that followed may be useful to anyone trying to drill holes. Some of them may qualify as 'obvious' but they're still worth bearing in mind... * Ensure the drill is sharp. * Make sure the work is firmly clamped * Don't try and run the bit too fast for the drill size and work material. * Don't force the feed rate; as with *any* cutting process, let the cutter do the cutting. * Keep as much of the drill in the chuck as possible. The more flexibility there is in the drill, the more likely you are to have problems. * When drilling thin material, it is often useful to provide some form of backing clamped to the work. This has the added advantage of keeping the burrs to a minimum. * The drill tip may need to be ground to a different angle, depending on the material being worked. * An undersize pilot hole is often a good idea. If you are drilling using a mark made with a centre punch and the tip of the drill is larger than the mark, you are unlikely to get accurate placement. * Don't forget to use a cutting lubricant * The quality of the hole is only going to be as good as the machine you are using will allow. If the drill spindle is sloppy, there may be nothing you can do about it. As a final comment, if you really want a round, accurately sized hole, you are unlikely to get it with a twist drill. Drill undersize and use a reamer if it's important. 17. What's TIG and MIG? TIG - Tungsten Inert Gas A small torch with a tungsten electrode is used to make the arc inside an envelope of an inert gas, usually argon or some argon mixture. A filler rod is manually introduced to complete the weld. The resulting weld is very pretty and usually requires no further finish. It is used mostly for welding sheets of mild steel, stainless steel or aluminum. The better machines have a foot control and a high frequency arc starter. Any sizable stick welder can be retro-fitted to do TIG welding, but without the foot control. MIG - Metal Inert Gas MIG and wire feed are the same thing. In this process, a consumable wire electrode is fed from a spool to the torch where the weld occurs inside an envelop of pure carbon dioxide, pure argon or a mixture of both. The weld continues as long as the operator has the trigger depressed and there is something to weld. This process is very fast, easy to learn and results in fairly good looking (better with argon) and strong welds. Most production welding of mild steel is now done with MIG welding. There is no slag to chip, but there is a slight thin coating of a glassy material that probably should be wire brushed off before painting. MIG welding can be used for thin or thick materials and is commonly used on mild steel, stainless and aluminum. Some common features of MIG machines are spot welding and stitch welding of sheet metal. There is a special wire called flux core that can be used in a MIG welder without the shielding gas. This process leaves a slag coating that must be chipped off. For most people on this group there isn't much use for flux core, as it was developed to reduce cost for large- scale welding where the cost of Argon starts piling up. There are fairly cheap 120 volt MIG welders that will only weld thin sheet metal. A more practical 240 volt machine that will weld up to about .25 inch is about $1500-$2000 new, $800-$1200 used. The machine I have will do MIG welding and stick welding, but most are MIG only. A machine that will weld .25 inch in a single pass will still weld thicker materials with multiple passes. 18. MIG welding technique. (The following was submitted by James Swonger on May 4, 1993) The quality of a MIG weld is controlled by gas flow, the qualities of that gas, the "heat" and feed rate settings. While getting a quality weld is less dependent on "touch" than gas or arc welding, it does depend on the right combination of the settable machine parameters. There are three modes of material transfer in a wire feed machine. One is "blob mode", where the wire sticks, then melts locally, then breaks. This occurs at the lower end of the heat/wire feed range. I say heat/feed rate as a ratio, because this pretty much determines which deposition mode you will see. Blob mode welds are the lowest penetration and lowest transferre heat, because there's almost no real arc action, just mostly resistive heating of the wire and contact point. The second mode as you move up the range is a soft arc with the metal being pushed through it. You'll recognize this mode when it happens; there's no more "wire push", the sound changes from a random snapping to a more uniform sizzle and everything just gets smooth. This is what I consider the ideal mode. The arc is stable but most of its energy is transferred into melting the fed wire and a localized area of the workpiece. In this mode I see about 1/4" of heat affected zone around the weld (automotive sheet metal thickness), and by proper setting I can get perfect penetration which I define to be some backside protrusion but no sag or burn-through. The handpiece ("gun") in this mode may have a buzzing feel to it but none of the bucking you get in blob mode. The third mode is when heat is much higher than the wire feed rate needs. This mode is akin to traditional arc welding, except with a fed wire. The arc energy now is biased more into the workpiece, with attendant heating and penetration. The wire still adds filler but there is more tendency to undercut, eat back and blow through especially on thin pieces. In this high heat/feed mode the buzzing/sizzling sound is replaced by a more purely electrical arc sound (whispering/crackling). This mode is desirable when welding pieces much thicker than the wire, especially when you haven't taken the bother of grinding proper chamfers and need to get penetration. Gas flow provides an important cooling effect. This is one reason why flux cored wire is harder to use on sheet metal; there's no place for the weld heat to go except the workpiece. Argon, A75 and CO2 have different welding characteristics. Argon will make the weld "sit up" higher, CO2 gives the most penetration and A75 is in the middle somewhere. Only Argon is suitable for aluminum; A75 is sort of marginal for stainless (leaves some carbon) but pretty ideal for general mild steel use. An adjustable regulator provides more latitude in balancing arc heat/feed and cooling. A high flow of gas can reduce warpage while allowing faster material transfer. I have a cheap preset flow regulator which is a compromise setting, compromise price type deal. To minimize panel warpage you must apply some technique as well. The MIG machine does not eliminate the need for skill; it just lets you apply your attention to more important things and lets you slide on some of the basics. Warping results from too much differential heating and expansion in the workpiece. By understanding the material and equipment you can keep this from being a problem. Duty cycle is one simple way of further reducing overall heat input. By welding in short, spaced beads you can join panels without overheating any large areas. First the piece should be "tacked" every few inches, with bead lengths of 1/2" or so. Make several passes after that, filling in the gaps bit by bit and not working any one region for long. The workpiece's thermal spreading will cool the small HAZ (*) pretty quickly if the total heat deposited remains small. A spot cools much more rapidly than a line. The edge of a thin metal piece presents a special case, a "boundary condition" which behaves differently than the bulk. With half the heat dissipation ability of the bulk, the edge will tend to burn back, distort and so on. This can be addressed by reducing heat (although this may force you into running blob mode), by different choice of metal overlap configuration and by carefully running the arc. A true butt joint in thin material is difficult to make. A -perfect- butting is hard to do on formed sheet metal, and any gaps will tend to enlarge in the welding process. For this reason a lapped weld is often preferred. A panel can be flanged to let the two pieces overlap but keep the final surface flush. The flange provides a backup as well in case of erosion of the edge on the top piece. =========\\W++++++++++++ \\==== A second sort of joint is a butted-V which protects the edges as the weld hits the sidewalls without necessarily reaching the bottom of the groove. --------\WW+++++++++ \+ Places like Eastwood sell specialty tools for making both types of flanges on sheet metal. Of course, you need to be careful not to cause deformation from the flanging process itself. I have made my own flanging tool for the first form out of an extra pair of Channel-Loks with extra jaw material brazed in and ground to shape. The Eastwood tool is Vise-Grip based and looks like it's a bit better as far as force required to make the flange due to the compound action. I think a pair of beat up sheet metal shears might be a better basis for making a new one. (*) HAZ = Heat Affected Zone; the area where you see thermally-induced material changes in the workpiece. This is basically the extent of any visible surface discoloration when using the MIG, although if you run the gas after stopping the arc you may not even be able to see anything because oxygen is excluded. If you remove the gas and arc together you will get the normal thin oxidation layer like you see when grinding or heating to temper. The outside of the blue oxide region is the periphery of the HAZ, although the material effects there are probably negligible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following was submitted by mrehmus@cup.portal.com Use of MIG for body work. A bad idea fostered on us amateurs by our ignorance. If you look at the available wire for MIG, you don't find anything much softer than S60 or higher wire. In general, the higher the yield strength of metal, the harder it is to work. (Try forming tool-steel as a test). The weld bead left by a MIG is very hard relative to the body sheet metal and is almost impossible to work. It also cracks very easily even if one trys to anneal the metal in the weld. In restoring a 1967 Mercury Cougar I finally had to teach myself hammer welding using a welding torch. The results were much better!! 1. The seam is the same thickness as the parent sheet metal. 2. The seam is as soft or softer than the parent sheet metal. 3. The seam and the surrounding sheet metal are easily worked to remove any defects caused by the welding process. Should anyone want to equal the hammer welding process but with an electric source of heat, TIG is the only way to go. The filler metal selection is much, much wider and the TIG can be run way down to 10 amps or so which would probably let you weld aluminum foil if you wished. Oh yea, in the professional welder's world, the common opinion is that a TIG weld is superior to MIG. So why do the professional body shops like the MIG? It is necessary for the welding of high-strength steel that is commonly used in the structural parts of the modern automobile. Not, I repeat, NOT for the external sheet metal. The external sheet metal (the part we can see) is still mild steel because of the expense and difficulty of making sheet metal forming dies that would last and give good results with high-strength steel. Remember that body shops replace whole panels, they rarely "patch" a panel. The high-quality restoration shops use TIG or (usually) a torch and hammer welding. GOOD video tapes to know about: "Learning MIG Welding" by SIP "Hammerwelding Techniques" by Car Guy Videotapes "Patch Panel Installation" by Car Guy Videotapes I have watched these tapes many times, always learning more at every session. The tape on MIG welding uses a good visual filter technique to show every type of weld puddle. After viewing the tape, my MIG welding has been much better. From jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu Wed Dec 29 21:20:54 EST 1993 Article: 2862 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 3 of 4 Message-ID: <1993Dec1.092602.1013@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Dec 93 09:26:02 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 3 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Dec 93 09:26:03 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 769 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 3 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19. We frequently see "What should I buy" questions; one example is "What MIG welder should I buy?" There is no definite answer, and the prospective buyer should read the other entries in this FAQ regarding welding. What follows is an example of such a question and the answers received (June, 1993). We claim no responsibility for correctness or liability for your money! Keith King asked: I'm looking at the purchase of a MIG welder for auto body repair and other light welding jobs around the homestead and I don't have much background on this type of equipment. The models I'm looking at are the Lincoln SP-100 and the Miller 130. Both models are 110v portables. The Miller has a higher rating but I'm not sure if that's critical for my applications. The Lincoln has the advantage of having infinitely variable power output vs. stepped output for the Miller and the salesman said the gun on the Lincoln was a "Tweako?" whatever that means. Both units are similarly priced/warranted etc. Century has a bunch of lower priced, shorter warranty, cheaper looking, MIG welders. Does anyone have any experience/opinions on these welders or other MIGs to help me make a more informed purchase. Jim Narem answered/asked: I'm also interested in MIG welders for sheet metal and roll bar work. I've used the Italian made SIP 110V MIG unit. It works; it was worth $100 (purchased at some close-out sale) but not the $350 that places want retail. It's tough to get parts; even the tips have to be ordered. The wire feed mechanism sucks. I've seen some new Lincoln's on the market; both are wire feed welders with optional MIG kits as opposed to the SP-100 and SP-130 which are purpose build MIG units. Lincoln Weld-Pak 100, 88 amp, 18V @ 20% duty, 110V, $354 w/MIG kit. Lincoln Weld-Pak 125, 130 amp, 20v @ 30% duty, 220V, $556 w/MIG kit. (Prices are Connecticut Home Depot, tax bandit not included) The MIG kits are about $80 each, they have a gas flow regulator, solenoid and (I think) a different gun. Does anyone have any experience with these welders? They seem cost effective compared to the SP-100 and SP-130 but I'm nervous since Lincoln seems to be releasing some home/consumer grade equipment (like their new AC arc welder with the cheezy variable amperage control). There are also several Century MIG units commonly available at large home improvement shops (yup, WELD on that new addition). I've used their AC/DC arc welder and was impressed with its cost/performance. Has anyone used any of the Century MIGs? Ken Clarke answered: I took an evening welding class at a technical high school (10 weeks) and got to try various types of welding (stick, MIG, TIG, and oxy/acetylene. Also got some good tips on safety, and on how to by a MIG welder. The instructor spoke of the "big three" in the welding business (Miller, Lincoln, and Hobart). He was a confirmed "Miller" man, but we used Lincoln (and Airco) welders in the tech. school. I now think that it makes sense to buy whatever you decide to buy at your favorite welding supply store. The guys there have lots of good advice and if you go with one of the big three, you will not have any problem getting parts and consumables for your welder. I looked around for a while and compared the 110v portable welders by Lincoln and Miller and Hobart. My favorite welding supply house was having a "package deal" that included the Hobart Handler 120. Included in the package was the welder, a 2 lb. spool of .024 wire, a Jackson welders mask with the 4x5 face plate (get a number 10 shade), a *good* pair of welders gloves, a 55 cu. ft. tank of shielding gas (C25 which is 25 percent CO2 and 75 percent Argon), a dual-gauge regulator and connecting hose. This was about 1.5 years ago and I believe I paid $625 for the package. The Hobart has been great. It works fine on auto body panels and I have also done work on exhaust systems, mailbox posts, minibike mufflers, lawnmower parts, and am finishing up a trailer axle for a friend this weekend. So, I guess I'm advocating the Hobart, but if you can get a good deal on the Miller or the Lincoln, those would probably be fine, too. A few of the features on the Hobart that I liked were: 1. A "purge" feature, that allows you to set the flow rate on the shielding gas without spooling out wire. 2. The wire feed mechanism that lets you set the tension on the drive wheel but also lets you change wire spools without moving the setting. 3. The ergonomics of the unit, the way the wire spool goes in, the way the lid hinges down (not up like the others). 4. Five year warranty on power diodes and SCRs, three years on major components and one year on parts and labor. I would stay away from the Century welder. I don't think it has the quality of the "big three". I think you would have trouble getting parts, probably would have to order them. All parts for the big three can be had at local welding supply houses, in-stock. Also, the "Tweeko" comment is referring to the gun end of the welder. I hear that it's supposed to be a very common industry-standard type of part. Parts for the Tweeko handle/gun should be available at any welding supply house. Jim Swonger answered: "Tweako" is actually Tweco, a manufacturer of MIG and TIG handpieces and such. What this means is that parts are pretty readily available; they're everywhere. For sheet metal welding you'll run nowhere near the maximum heat setting on any machine. On my 160 I'm down on "2" for heat. The higher current machines of some of the cheaper brands need to be looked at carefully; some of them have -very- low duty cycles, leading me to believe that the critical parts are not much, if any, better than the cheaper models. The "purge" feature is good to have; however if you do not find a machine with it you can add it pretty simply. An auxiliary control switch for the solenoid valve is all it takes, in parallel with the relay that runs off the gun trigger. For serious sheet metal work spot and stitch modes are very nice amenities, allowing you to tack up a large piece with spaced short beads, minimizing distortion and allowing a fast, even hand motion. You can get by without it, but if it comes free or cheap... Quite a while later (26-Sep-1993), mrehmus@cup.portal.com wrote -- I've owned a Century 90 amp MIG welder for 4 or 5 years now. Never a problem with the unit and I've put three large reels of 0.024" wire through it. The one time I thought I had a problem the people at Century were very helpful. Century may not be one of the "big three" but they have been around for a very long time (mainly they make many of the professional battery chargers sold in this country, so I'm told). ------------ Other comments that have come up from various sources, especially Ken Clarke: Arc welders are often rated for a particular duty cycle, such as 30%. This means you can weld for about 3 minutes at full power, then you have to let the welder cool off for 7 minutes. The cheap units are typically low duty cycle, where the professional units have a high duty cycle. Also, units are often rated at a certain lower amperage where they can safely be operated at a higher percentage; for example, a 200 amp unit might be rated at 50 amps @ 100%, 100 amps at @ 60%, and 200 amps at 30%. Look for some sort of automatic cutoff to protect your investment in case you get carried away. DC systems are nicer than AC systems, especially if you can reverse polarity. AC systems splatter a bit more. DC doesn't as much, and makes a nicer weld as a result. Reversing polarity apparently can direct heat away from, or to, the workpiece; directing it away from a sheet metal weld can reduce warpage. Inverter models run off DC, or rectified line current. Their portability is the main selling point, for field welding where 220V isn't available. For the home or small shop, they are probably overkill. Large spools of wire, or other welding supplies, may corrode before they get used up in a hobby environment. Dry storage is important to preserve them. 20. Books on welding. Courtesy of kenm@daffy.cac.washington.edu Here's a source of good and inexpensive welding books. A catalog is available from: Lincoln Arc Welding Foundation PO Box 17035 Cleveland, OH 44117 They list a couple of dozen titles. Here are nutshell reviews of the ones I've seen: Metals and How to Weld Them, 400 pg, $5.00 A great book on the metallurgy of welding. It's not a how-to-weld book, but instead answered the Why? type questions I've had for years. Principles of Industrial Welding, 384 pg, $6.50 Your run-of-the-mill textbook. Design of Weldments, 464 pg, $7.00 A text on the design of welded machinery etc. There is a different book on welded structures. Well worth it it you are designing your own projects. New Lessons in Arc Welding, 528 pg, $5.00 Hard to describe - kind of a lab manual for a welding tips. Certainly worth the $5. Arc Welded Projects Vol 2, 272 pg, $5.00 Arc Welded Projects Vol 3, 170 pg, $4.50 Full of short (couple of page) descriptions of all kinds of rather ambitious projects - a tractor snowblower, log splitter, chariot, sailboat, woodstove, .... These are good books at any price, and great books at these prices. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. There sometimes seems a fine line between soldering (several types, at that), brazing, and welding. Here we try to shed some light on soldering and brazing. The following was contributed by Tim Kirby around 3/3/93 when the newsgroup was discussing the "true meaning" of silver soldering and the distinction between hard and soft solder. : Can anyone remember the "official" difference between : Hard & Soft solders ? While browsing for something else entirely, I found my copy of 'Model Locomotive and Marine Boilers' [Argus Press, 1988, ISBN 0-85242-923-1] by Martin Evans (well known in the Model Engineering field, at least in the UK) from which I have gratuitously (and without prejudice) stolen the following extract for your contemplation. As an aside, this is a useful book for those interested in designing and building boilers. Chapter 3, page 55: Silver Soldering and Brazing Soldering and brazing are processes which involve the joining of metals by the addition of molten filler metal of substantially different composition, at temperatures well below their melting point. An important difference between silver-soldering and brazing or welding is that the brazing alloy or filler material must be drawn by capillary forces right through the mating joint surfaces, and not merely deposited at the edges. Soft Solders are generally accepted as including the alloys of low melting point up to about 400 deg. C. They are usually based on Tin or Lead with small additions of antimony and sometimes silver. Hard solders, or silver-solders, are those alloys suitable for soldering which have melting points from 400 deg. C. up to about 800 deg. C. (see BSI 1845/1964) [for those who don't understand that reference, BSI is the British Standards Institute, similar in function to (for example) ANSI. BSI 1845 probably details this stuff in excruciating detail ;-) ... Tim.] Brazing alloys are alloys suitable for brazing (sic) which have melting points from about 800 deg. C. up to about 1000 deg. C. It should however be understood that there is no definite line of demarcation between silver-solders and brazing alloys. The former always contain a proportion of silver, while the brazing alloys generally contain copper, zinc and sometimes tin. Brazing alloys containing copper and phosphorus are also available but these are not recommended for boiler work. 22. What are bolt grades? We frequently see questions regarding bolt grades, so here's a partial list. Please note that just because a bolt is grade 2 does not mean it will break easily. Grading only refers to the minimum strength, not the maximum. Thus, if a machine uses a soft bolt as a safety shear pin, and you happen to replace it with a grade 2 bolt that was actually manufactured to grade 8 specs (but was marked down because too many of the bolts in the lot failed, so the whole lot was marked down) you could create some serious problems. Replace safety-related items with proper stuff! Also beware of improperly-marked forgeries. If your application is critical, test some samples or get certified hardware (not that readers of rec.crafts.metalworking are likely to be building interstate bridges or spacecraft, but it's worth saying). John M. Peterson kindly typed this in on July 20, 1993: Taken from Machinery's Handbook 23 , page 1286. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM and SAE Grade Markings for Steel Bolts and Screws ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Grade Marking Spec. Material ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- SAE - Grade 1 Low or Medium Carbon Steel No ASTM - A 307 Low Carbon Steel Mark SAE - Grade 2 Low or Medium Carbon Steel ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 5 Medium Carbon Steel Quenched and Tempered ASTM - A 409 / \ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 5.2 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ASTM - A 325 Medium Carbon Steel Type 1 Quenched and Tempered A 325 Radial dashes optional / \ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ASTM - A 325 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Type 2 Quenched and Tempered A 325 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 325 Atmospheric Corrosion (Weathering) Type 3 Steel, Quenched and Tempered A 325 ----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 354 Alloy Steel, Grade BC Quenched and Tempered BC ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 7 Medium Carbon Alloy Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered, Roll Threaded After Heat / \ Treatment ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 8 Medium Carbon Alloy Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered ASTM - A 354 Alloy Steel, / \ Grade BD Quenched and Tempered | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \/ SAE - Grade 8.2 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered \ / ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 490 Alloy Steel, Type 1 Quenched and Tempered A 490 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 490 Atmospheric Corrosion (Weathering) Type 3 Steel, Quenched and Tempered A 490 ----- 23. What is XYZ made of? Metals 1. What is Brass made of? Brass is a combination of copper and zinc, in approximately the ratio of 2/3 to 1/3, respectively. Sometimes lead (about 3%) is added to improve machinability. 2. What is Bronze made of? Bronze is usually made of copper and tin. However bronze describes any bronze colored alloy even if it doesn't have any tin. Various bronze alloys include silicon, manganese or phosphorus. Mostly bronze is used for bearings. 3. Steels Steel is a refined iron where the impurities carbon, silicon, sulphur and phosphorus are removed and then the iron is combined with carbon and/or chromium and/or nickel. Various other metals may be added to create a nearly infinite variety of steel and steel alloys. A few common steels are discussed below. a. What is CRS? Cold Rolled Steel. b. What is HRS? Hot Rolled Steel. c. What is HSS? High Speed Steel. d. What is stainless steel? Stainless steel is low in carbon but has about 20% chromium. Stainless has a beautiful finish but it is very hard to machine. Both CRS and HRS are mild steels. Mild steels have a low carbon (<.3%) content and therefore can't be hardened. CRS is formed (into bars, rods or angles ...) "cold" and therefore has internal stresses inside. Because of these stresses, an intricate part, like a one piece crankshaft, or a heat treated part may distort. CRS has a smooth surface, which requires no additional finishing. The steel stock found in the hardware store or home improvement center is usually CRS. HRS is formed hot so it does not have any internal stresses but it has a rough black scale surface. HRS is a little cheaper, but CRS is easier to find. HRS is used for welding, so a welding shop with steel stock would be a good source for HRS. HSS is a carbon steel (0.3% Date: 1 Dec 93 09:26:18 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 4 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Dec 93 09:26:19 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 707 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 4 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (with special thanks to Stu Friedberg). Note also that a potential source of manufacturers/suppliers is the Thomas Register, found in most public libraries. -- Special entry: Not a company or anything, but for more info on crafts supplies, send e-mail to info@crafts-council.pe.ca and put "WANTED:" at the beginning of the subject line. This is a non-profit service of PEI Crafts Council in Charlottetown, Price Edward Island, Canada. They maintain a list of crafts suppliers and can answer questions like "give me a list of ceramics suppliers East of the Mississippi" or "who sells ConeArt kilns?" (per a post 9-Nov-1993) - Allcraft Tool & Supply 666 Pacific St. Brooklyn, NY 11217 (800)645-7124, (718)789-2800 Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Allied Devices Corporation 2365 Milburn Ave P.O. Box 502 (516) 223-9100, (516) 223-9172 (FAX) "Standard Precision Mechanical Components" such as small gears. Reputedly not cheap, but Small Parts Inc isn't either. - American Watchmakers-Clockmakers Institute (AWI) P.O. Box 11011 Cincinnati, OH 45211 (513) 661-3838, (513) 661-3131 (FAX) Membership is around $45 or so per year. They have an excellent magazine, Horological Times. Their orientation is more towards watch/clock repair. They offer many courses along those lines. The "Project Extended" courses are given in Cincinnati, but they have many other courses (around 5 days) given around the country. They have at least 100 videotapes on various aspects of lathe work and clock repair. - ARE, Inc. Box 8 Greensboro Bend, VT 05842 (800)736-4273, (802)533-7007, (802)533-7008 fax Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Argus Books P.O. Box 35 Wolsey House Wolsey Road, Hemel Hempstead Herts HP2 4SS England Telephone: Hemel Hempstead (0442)66551 Publishers of Model Engineer in England. Heavy on live-steam model trains, mostly machining topics, some interesting plans. - Blue Ridge Machinery and Tools, Inc. PO Box 536 2806 Putnam Avenue Hurricane, WV 25516 800-872-6500, 304-562-3538 in WV, 304-562-5311 (fax) Credit cards, COD's up to $200 M,W,F 9-5 EST, Tu,Th 9-9 EST Lathes, milling machines, presses, brakes, from puny to industrial. Accessories and parts for popular machines from Myford, South Bend, Atlas, Sherline, Emco-Maier, etc. Hand tools and books of interest to hobbyists and professionals. Woodworking power tools Steel, brass, aluminum, tool steel in small quantities. 110 page catalog - Borel and Frei 712 S. Olive St. Los Angeles, CA 90014 (800)654-9591, (213)689-7007, (213)533-7008 fax Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Bourget Bros. Lapidary and Jeweler's Supplies 1636 11th St. Santa Monica, CA 90404 (800)828-3024 - Brownells Route 2 Box 1 200 South Front Street Montezuma, Iowa, 50171 (515) 623-5401, (515) 623-3896 (FAX) Brownells is a fine firm that specializes in gunsmithing, though a lot of their merchandise is great for general-purpose metalworking. Catalog is $4.00, refundable with first order of $40 or more (but if you can convince them you are a dealer, then it is free). They have lower prices for gun dealers, "enciphered" in the catalog in a manner similar to the following -- Item: Foo Bar Grips an9xx20dd Price: $19.95 means list price is $19.95, dealer price is $9.20. However, in recent catalogs they have changed the coding on some items. While some people have apparently convinced them they are a dealer, the usual requirement seems to be an FFL (Federal Firearms License) before they sell for the dealer price. - Campbell Tools, Inc. 2100-H Selma Rd. Springfield, OH 45505 (513) 322-8562 A machine supplier attuned to the hobbyist metalworker. They carry Sherline, Emco, Jet, and other machines. Also books, hardware, raw materials, etc. Highly recommended by one net reader. - Centaur Forge Ltd. P.O. Box 340 117 N. Spring Street Burlington, WI 53105 (414) 763-9175, (414) 763-8350 (FAX) Publications concentrate on forging, blacksmithing, though all aspects of metalworking are covered. A good, well-organized collection. They also publish a magazine, Anvil (see earlier section). Centaur Forge is the source for blacksmithing supplies from tongs to furnaces. Also a source of horse shoeing supplies. - Cole's Power Models P.O. Box 788 Ventura, CA 93001 (805) 643-7065 Castings, books, supplies, accessories. For trains, stationary steam, gasoline engines. The catalog costs $4. - Condar Co. 10500 Industrial Drive Garrettsville, OH 44231 (216) 527-4343 They sell a pyrometer (high-temp thermometer) for gas forges and such, Unit 9-85 which comes with a 6-foot 2200-degree probe for $60. They also have a high temp probe (3000 degrees; Unit 14S4-1, $17). Probably lots of other related items, but this came up in discussion on low-cost pyrometers around 3/25/93. - Darex Corporation 220 Hersey Street Box 277 Ashland, OR 97520 (503) 488-2224, (503) 488-2229 (FAX) Precision drill and end-mill sharpening equipment. Some of their complete systems are very expensive and intended for large production shops (around $2000). They also sell fixtures for use with existing grinders (about $250) and sharpeners for taps, reamers, and countersinks. - Eastwood Company (800) 345-1178 Metal fabrication equipment, welding supplies, etc. Reportedly, the prices are rather high. - Enco Manufacturing Co. 13 stocking locations, main site in Chicago, IL (addresses not handy now) 800-860-3400 (24 hr orders, automatically routes to closest location) 800-860-3500 (fax, also auto routes) Credit cards, COD's up to $500, discount for pre-pay by check $25 minimum order Customer service & Chicago showroom M-F 7-midnight CST, Sa 8-4 CST, Su 9-4 CST Lathes, milling machines, etc, from small to large NC machines. Hand tools, cutting tools, storage cabinets, shop supplies Maker (not just distributer) of turret bed lathes. However, many net folks have reported that quality and service are between awful and terrible (this author included), and that Enco is to be avoided. This is not a unanimous opinion, but close. 230 page catalog - Gateway Clocks 7936 Camberly Drive Powell, TN 37849 Gateway Clocks is apparently a one-man business, in the person of W. R. Smith, author of several clockmaking books and one on clockmaking and model-making (see earlier section in the FAQ). Gateway also sells all of John Wilding's books, and John Wilding (in England) sells all of Smith's books, through a reciprocal agreement. - Gesswein 255 Hancock Ave. Bridgeport, CT 06605 (800)243-4466, (203)366-5400, (203)366-3953 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Glendo Corporation 900 Overlander Road P.O. Box 1153 Emporia, KS 66801 (800) 835-3519, (316) 343-1084, (316) 343-9640 (FAX) Their Accu-Finish line of "advanced sharpening equipment" includes grinders and fixtures for lathe cutting bits and similar tools. Also, most affordable for the home shop, the Grind-R-Table for use with existing grinders. They often run ads in the magazines, or you can call for information. - Harbor Freight Tools 3491 Mission Oaks Blvd. Camarillo, CA 93011-6010 800 423 2567 They mostly sell cheap tools. Usually cheap = inexpensive, sometimes cheap = junky. All (or most all) imported. They are best for items which have a lot of metal in them and for which fine/precision is not your main objective. They have really great buys on anvils, cold chisel sets, screwdriver sets, tinsnips, crowbars, ... and free shipping (other than a $2.95 handling fee) for orders over $50. - Industrial Pipe and Steel Co. 9936 E. Rush Street South El Monte, CA 91733 800-423-4981, 818-443-9467, 818-579-4602 (fax) Credit cards, COD's M-F 7:30-4:30 PST, Sa 7:30-1 PST Cutting tools, hand tools, air tools, lathes, milling machines, you name it. Shop supplies, tool and die maker supplies, you name it. Metal of all sorts, you name it. New and used press die sets. Surplus rounds and plates. Buy by the foot, buy by the pound. Most of their metal stock is not listed in the catalog(s). Call and ask what they've got. Definitely oriented toward professional users, not hobbyists. Full line distributors for most instrument makers, Starrett, Mitutoyo, etc. Quality ranges from ultra-classy, great deals, garbage-at-any-price import. Small catalog several times a year, 200 page catalog once or twice a year, and a 750 page full-line catalog once every five years. They came out with a full-line catalog in 92. Get one if you can. - J. I. Morris Company 394 Elm Street Southbridge, MA 01550 Phone: (508) 764-4394, (508) 764-7350 (FAX) Tiny screws, nuts, washers. Sizes 0000-16 to 2-56 and popular UNM sizes stocked in many head styles and lengths in both brass and burr-free stainless. Matching taps, chasers, and gages available. Write/FAX for catalog or send for prompt quotation. - J. Malcolm Wild (Clocks) 12 Norton Green Close Sheffield S8 8BP England Telephone: 0742 745693 Supplies and accessories for clockmaking. - The Jeweler's Loupe 1625 Crenshaw Blvd. Torrance, CA 90501 (310)320-7005 - Kitts Industrial Tools 22384 Grand River Avenue Detroit, MI 48219 800-521-6579, 313-538-2585 in MI, 313-538-6499 (fax) Credit cards, COD's $25 minimum order M-Sa 9-5 EST Cutting tools, hand tools, air tools, supplies Quality ranges from ultra-classy, great deals, garbage-at-any-price import 150 page catalog - Klockit P.O. Box 636 Lake Geneva, WI 53147 (800) KLOCKIT (i.e. (800) 556-2548) Books, kits, plans, tools, parts for clocks and watches. - Lasquad Metals 419 N. 13th Street San Jose, CA (408) 294-3686 Hours: 10-5 M-F, 10-2 Sat. According to John Kopf, LASQUAD stands for "Loose And Sloppy, QUick And Dirty". Mostly aluminum ($2.60/lb new, 1.50 surplus), some brass (2.75 new, 2.00 surplus), some copper, stainless steel, etc. Its a couple of miles from Enco. Didn't sound like they'd take phone or mail orders but I haven't tried. - Lindsay Publications Inc. P. O. Box 538 Bradley, IL 60915-0538 (815) 935-5353 Lindsay publishes books for the home shop, covering casting, forging, machining, and a few plans for building engines and such. It has been reported that their catalog is "a bit bizarre" but the service is fast. Their electrical catalog has cross-over projects that include light (pun intended?) metalworking. - Mason & Sullivan 210 Wood County Industrial Park Parkersburg, WV 26102-1686 800-225-1153 (orders), 800-535-4486 (technical advice), 800-535-4482 (customer service), 304-428-8271 (FAX) Supplier of clock kits, plans, parts, and tools. In business since 1947, they recently went out of business, and have re-appeared owned in part by the employees, though they also appear to be affiliated with the Woodcraft company (same address!) - McMaster-Carr Supply Company PO Box 440 New Brunswick NJ 08903-0440 USA 908-329-3200 (Sales), 908-329-6666 (Other Departments), 908-329-3772 (FAX) Also has stocking sales centers in Atlanta, Chicago, and Los Angeles. Note that they apparently only deal with companies. Jim Harres reports that they refused to send him a catalog. Prints an annual 2600+ page catalog. Very complete supplier with tools, screws, shelving, wheels, lamps, heaters, air conditioners, plumbing, electrical supplies, plastics, metals, pumps, containers, motors, gauges, paint brushes, hooks, door hardware, pH testers, microscopes, etc. Metric and english threads and sizes, too. Small bits of information, reference charts and advice are scattered throughout the catalog. No minimum order. Satisfaction Guaranteed, whatever that means. No problem with returns, but they ask that you get specific return instructions before shipping anything back. All prices subject to change. Visa and MasterCard accepted. Prices are quoted plus actual shipping. Experience with McMaster-Carr is very good. They do update (read: raise) their prices frequently, so don't believe catalog prices. Get a quote before buying. Expect the catalog to be 10% low. Shipments have been prompt, complete, and accurate. Prices seem high, but they make up for it with "one-stop" shopping. - Metal Buyer's Mart, Ltd. (formerly Metal By Mail) N-15 W 22218 Watertown Road, Waukesha, WI 53186 (800) 657-0721 $2 catalog, which contains decent descriptions of what they sell (hardness, machinability, etc.). Ferrous and nonferrous metals, fasteners, and a few nonmetallic materials such as nylon and teflon. - MSC Industrial Supply Co. 151 Sunnyside Blvd Plainview, NY 11803 (800) 645-7270 (AT&T), (800) 753-7900 (MCI), (800) 255-5067 FAX Their 92/93 catalog is 1950 pages, and their selection has been described as "dumbfounding". - Nordex, Inc. 50 Newton Road P.O. Box 1956 Danbury, CT. 06813 (800) 243-0986 Usual range of precision components. Spur gears down to .25" O.D. - Norm Larson Books 5426 E. Hwy 246 Lompoc, CA 93436 (800) 743-4766, (805) 735-2095 "... books on just about every subject about metal working there is." - Omega Engineering P.O. Box 2669 Stamford, CT 06906 (203) 359-1660 Mentioned as a source for pyrometers and/or materials for making thermocouples and other process-measurement stuff. - Penn Tool Company 1776 Springfield Ave Maplewood, NJ 07040 (800) 526-4956 A very-well-stocked supplier with a very large selection of drills, taps, reamers, and other machining tools. However, in some cases their prices seem outrageous, so check around first. On the other hand, they may be the only source for that odd-sized spiral-flute reamer you need, or that #00 tap. Their catalogs are free; there is a small (196 pages in 1993) one and a large one (410 pages, catalog no. P-912 as of late 1992), so ask for both (they may only send you the short one if you say you're a hobbyist). - PIC Design P.O. Box 1004 Benson Road Middlebury, CT. 06762 (800) 243-6125 Usual range of precision components. Gears down to less than 3/8" O.D. - Power Model Supply Rt 1 Box 177 NW Cor Hwy 67 & Lond Rd Desoto, MO 63020 (314) 586-6466 Similar to Cole's but heavier on the trains. - Reactive Metals Studio Box 890 Clarkdale, AZ 86324 (800)876-3434, (602)634-3434 Niobium, mixed metals, for jewelry and perhaps other purposes. - Reid Tool Supply Company 2265 Black Creek Road Muskegon, MI 49444-2684 (800) 253-0421, (616) 777-3951, (616) 773-4485 (FAX) Prints a 350+ page catalog twice a year. Very complete assortment of knobs, screws, clamps, springs, air hoses and couplings, drills, mills, taps, machinist's tooling, and books. No minimum order, 30-day return with full refund. Offers rework and specialty items with special conditions and terms. - River Gems and Findings (formerly Rio Grande) Dept T1 6801 Washington NE Albuquerque, NM 87109 (800)545-6566 orders, (800)533-3299 service, (505)344-9671 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Rutland Tool & Supply 16700 E. Gale Avenue City of Industry, CA. 91745-0587 (800) 289-4787, (818) 961-7111, (800) 333-3787 (FAX) (courtesy of Jon Bork) Rutland is a general machine shop supply house, with a good selection of tools, machines and accessories. They primarily deal with professionals, but I have dealt with them in person and by phone and they have always been helpful and quick. They send out several catalogs yearly including a new safety equipment supply catalog. Their prices are reasonable and they stock both top of the line and "quality import" selections for most items. - S. LaRose, Inc. 234 Commerce Place, P.O. Box 21208 Greensboro, NC 27420 (919) 275-0462 Watch and clock movements, repair parts, supplies, tools, equipment. - Scanlon American Reprints P.O. Box 379 Modesto, CA 95353 (209) 667-2907 Scanlon sells many books on clocks. - Secs, Inc. 520 Homestead Ave. Mt. Vernon, N.Y. 10550 (914) 667-5600 General line of precision hardware, gears, pulleys, clutches, etc. - Servo Products Company 433 N. Fair Oaks Ave., Box 90370 Pasadena, CA 91109 (818) 796-2460, (818) 796-3845 (FAX) Small precision drill presses and milling machines, including a whopping expensive CNC mill ($15,000). Power feeds for mills. CNC small lathe, CNC add-on for large mills. - Small Parts, Inc. 13980 N.W. 58th Court P.O. Box 4650 Miami Lakes, FL. 33014 (305) 423-9009 Nicest line of supplies and hardware for prototype builders. Specifically targeted for small quantities. Catalog includes prices. More fun than the Sears catalog. - Stock Drive Products 2101 Jericho Turnpike Box 5416 New Hyde Park, NY 11042-5416 (516) 328-3300 These folks make all sorts of gears, drives, bearings, couplings, and related stuff. Small, not hydroelectric-sized. Ask them for their free publication "Handbook of Gears." They also publish "Handbook of Shafts, Bearings & Couplings," "Handbook of Timing Belts, Chains & Friction Drives," "Handbook of Design Components," "Aluminum Extrusions & Accessories." They also package the whole set (I asked for just the handbook of gears and got all five). - Swest, Inc. 11090 Stemmons Frwy Dallas, TX 75220 (800)527-5057, (214)247-7744, (214)247-5307 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Tee Publishing Edwards Centre Regent Street Hinckley Leics. LE100BB England 0455-637173/616419 From England, they publish Engineering in Miniature and other magazines. Similar to Argus, they have clockmaking books as well. They state they are the world's only company specializing in back issues of Model Engineer. - Travers Tool Company, Inc. 128-15 26th Avenue P.O. Box 1550 Flushing, NY 11354-0108 (800) 221-0270, (718) 886-7200, (800) 722-0703 (FAX), (718) 886-7895 (FAX) Prints a 500+ page large catalog once per year, and also sales flyers. Very complete line of tooling for machinists, including micrometers, mills, drills, reamers, broaches, taps, collets, tool posts, lathe tools, grinding wheels and stones, files, gages, vices, indicators, precision steel pieces, glops and goos, books, and some power tools. $25.00 minimum order. Visa, MasterCard, American Express accepted. Replace, refund, or full credit within 60 days of purchase (buyer's choice). Prices are subject to change without notice. Experience with Travers has been good. They are less expensive than McMaster-Carr and other full-price dealers. They sell premium and no-name lines of many similar tools so that you only buy the "quality" that you need. Their performance on orders was once imperfect, but they stand behind their merchandise, so correcting the error was easy, fast, and painless. I have ordered from them many times, so "one minor error out of many" is a good grade. - Vigor, sold by FDJ 2221 Lee Road, Suite #1 Winter Park, FL 32789 (800) 323-6091 (orders) (407) 629-6906 (407) 645-0707 (FAX) (FDJ is the company name, and sells the Vigor line) Jeweler's tools, video tapes, books, retailing supplies, and many universal tools being targeted at jewelers. Tweezers, ring forms, molds, forges, files, small lathes, loupes, calipers, torches, solders and brazing material, mountings, etc. An informative catalog. Very wide selection, but prices seem very high. - Village Press P.O. Box 1810 2779 Aero Park Drive Traverse City, MI 49685 (800) 447-7367, (616) 946-3712 Publishers of Home Shop Machinist, Projects in Metal, and Live Steam. Some back issues available; older ones are available as parts of several book series. See the individual entries in the "magazines" question. They also publish other books such as "So You Want to Build a Live Steam Locomotive." - Wholesale Tool (Stu Friedberg's favorite!) PO Box 68 Warren, MI 48089-0068 12155 Stephen Drive Warren, MI 48089-3962 800-521-3420, 800-521-3661 (fax), 313-754-9270, 313-754-8652 (fax) Broader selection of hand tools, fewer large machines than IP&S. Fork lifts. No bulk metals, but tool steel, shim stock, threaded rod, etc. Vast selection of cutting tools and grinding wheels. Scattering of interesting surplus items. Definitely oriented toward professional users, not hobbyists. Full line distributors for most instrument makers. 500 page full line catalog twice a year. You have to order by 8 digit stock number, so copy carefully. :-) 6 locations, main site in Warren, MI. Most items at most locations, some items in Michigan only, very few at other locations only. Credit cards, COD's with some payment restrictions $25 minimum order The other locations: PO Box 481 Stoughton, MA 02072-0481 1234 Washington Street (Route 138) Stoughton, MA 02072-3345, 800-343-1008, 617-344-0338, 617-341-0617 (fax) PO Box 700 Brandon, FL 33509-0700 9212 Adamo Drive Tampa, FL 33619-2631 800-237-4689, 813-623-3099, 813-623-5816 (fax) PO Box 470952 Tulsa, OK 74147-0952 9909 East 55th Place Tulsa, OK 74146-6404 800-331-4075, 918-627-2240, 918-627-2044 (fax) PO Box 240965 Charlotte, NC 28224-0965 4200 Barringer Drive Charlotte, NC 28217-1512 800-438-3580, 704-527-4071, 704-523-7960 (fax) 8100 Pinemont Drive Houston, TX 77040-6522 800-231-4585, 713-895-7777, 713-895-8113 (fax) From danr@crash.cts.com Wed Dec 29 21:20:57 EST 1993 Article: 3012 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!crash!danr From: danr@crash.cts.com (Dan Rubesh) Subject: Re: Cutting Titanium ( was Re: Welding Titanium ) Organization: CTS Network Services (CTSNET/crash), San Diego, CA Distribution: na Date: 19 Dec 93 00:18:55 PST Message-ID: <1993Dec19.001855.29969@crash> References: <1993Dec16.224501.1@aurora.alaska.edu> <2f0272$7se@ulowell.uml.edu> Lines: 52 fsbgf@aurora.alaska.edu (Brandon France) inquires: >>Anyone out there have any good hints for welding titanium? >>A friend and I are designing and building a racing suspention for a >>snowmachine and are considering using titanium for the frame. >>Any work we will be doing will be done using TIG welding and we are >>considering building a purge tank to do the welding in. We have the skill >>and the equipment but lack the experience. Your advice would be >>appreciated >> to which rgiacchi@cs.uml.edu (Roy Giacchino) inquires: > Your request sparked my curiosity so I'll ask .. How does one > cut a peice of titanium ? What would the cutting material be ? > How about drilling the stuff ? What kind of drill bits would be > used? Just wondering. Thanks. > > -- roy Titanium can be cut by a number of conventional means.. It isn't so much a hard material as a tough material.. Titanium is actually relatively soft, and has some plastic deformation characteristics that can make it challenging to machine.. It can be best turned / milled with carbide inserted tools, high positive, high shear geometry, on the order of 15-20 degrees top rake seems to work better.. Drilling is done with carbide, cobalt, or high speed steel drills.. Cutting speeds are relatively low, around 50-60 surface ft/min for high speed and <150 sfpm for carbides (this from memory as my Metcut book is at work).. Probably the most difficult operation to perform on Ti in my experience is tapping, as the plastic deformation characteristic tends to make the material try to go away from the tap while it is being driven into the hole, and when you reverse the tap to remove it, the Ti hangs onto it like grim death.. Among the better cuting fluids that I've used with it is Westlube / Anchorlube (a.k.a. `parrot shit' in the shops I've worked in).. Titanium is also a flammable material, much like Magnesium it will maintain it's own flame once lit.. It's about twice as difficult as mag to get started burning, and about 3x harder to put out.. One aerospace machine shop that I worked in some years ago used to routinely weld Titanium with an Electron Beam welding process in a vaccuum chamber.. I'm not sure it can be easily welded with TIG, and my area of experience is more in the cutting than the welding arena.. Most likely a welding type will be able to answer that question better.. -- Good Winds and Tight Lines! Dan Rubesh AKA Member/Merchant Wind Wizard, Purveyor of UUCP: {ucsd, nosc}!crash!danr GO Stunt Kites & Accessories ARPA: crash!danr@nosc.mil FLY A P.O. Box 5747 INET: danr@crash.cts.com STUNT Ventura, CA 93005 (805) 659-5654 KITE! Member: Kite Trade Assn. From jb@terpsichore.MAE.CWRU.Edu Wed Dec 29 21:20:57 EST 1993 Article: 3013 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!terpsichore!jb From: jb@terpsichore.MAE.CWRU.Edu (Jim Berilla) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Cutting Titanium ( was Re: Welding Titanium ) Date: 19 Dec 1993 21:40:48 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, USA Lines: 25 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2f2hp0$srs@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <1993Dec16.224501.1@aurora.alaska.edu> <2f0272$7se@ulowell.uml.edu> <1993Dec19.001855.29969@crash> NNTP-Posting-Host: terpsichore.mae.cwru.edu In article <1993Dec19.001855.29969@crash>, danr@crash.cts.com (Dan Rubesh) writes: [lots of good stuff deleted] There are a lot of titanium alloys in use, and the ease of machining them varies greatly. CP (chemically or commercially pure) titanium is a dream to work with. 6Al4V (6% aluminum, 4% vanadium) can be a nightmare. The problem with 6Al4V is that it work hardens quickly. If you let the tool kiss the surface without cutting, the surface will harden. Then it's like cutting through case hardening. Carbide tools help a lot in this case. Another weird thing about titanium, is that the chips are very sharp for some reason. I couldn't believe how sharp they were, but I have a scar on my index finger from trying to clear a chip on the lathe. The chip cut down to the bone, and the lathe wasn't even running. (It was 22 years ago. I know better now.) |> Titanium is also a flammable |> material, much like Magnesium it will maintain it's own flame once lit.. Save those chips. The pyrotechnicians use them for (surprisingly) titanium salutes. Bright flash, lots of sparks, bit noise. -- Jim Berilla / jb@falstaff.MAE.cwru.edu / +1 216 368 6776 From fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com Wed Dec 29 21:20:58 EST 1993 Article: 3014 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!caen!msuinfo!uchinews!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: Building Trains, Hiraoka's Books... Organization: AT&T Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 14:04:40 GMT Message-ID: References: <1993Dec16.222910.6103@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 29 >From article <1993Dec16.222910.6103@hemlock.cray.com>, by trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby): > Matthew Jones (jonesm@nic.cerf.net) wrote: >> A popular machinest hobby is to build model steam trains, usually they >> run on 3.5, 4.5 or 7.5" track... > > Or, 3.5, 5 and 7.25" track, depending on what part of the world you're in... As long as we are picking nits, the gauge for nominal 1"/ft scale in the US is 4 3/4", not 4 1/2". The overall picture is as follows: UK (and rest of the world, except USA?): 3.5", 5", 7.25" USA (Eastern portion): 3.5", 4.75", 7.25" USA (remainder): 3.5", 4.75", 7.5" There is also a bit of 2.5" track still around, and some Gauge 1 equipment (1.75" gauge) is built in live steam, although seldom using coal as a fuel (alcohol, and, I believe, butane are common). There is also some interest in still larger scales, with 15" gauge being the most common. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From gwhite@ll.mit.edu Wed Dec 29 21:20:58 EST 1993 Article: 3015 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Chain Mail (2nd Attempt) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec20.150039.17489@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 10:00:38 -0500 Lines: 60 At least here, the second 2/3rds of my post got cut off. This is another attempt. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I originally responded to this thread directly with its originator, Joel Chambers (ravenous@cnj.digex.com) because I didn't expect much interest in this area. Seeing that I was mistaken, I have organized my notes into something a bit more presentable. About 20 years ago, I discovered an easy way to make rust-proof chain mail. The only drawback is that it isn't cheap. However, it's not outrageously expensive either, depending on your personal definition of outrageous. The secret is to buy 'split rings' designed for making fishing lures. These are basically miniature keyrings (the 2-turn overlapping spring variety) used to hold the hooks on fishing lures. At the time, I bought nickel plated spring-steel rings for about a penny a piece from a semi-retail source. This was expensive enough that I only made small pieces of mail for helmets and the like. After complaints that split rings weren't 'authentic', I did some research and found a photo in one of the big armor books of some split-ring mail in a Swiss museum. Unfortunately, I lost my notes on the reference, but Joel is trying to track it down again. Joel is concerned that it won't look enough like classic chain mail to avoid snide comments. I never had too many complaints about general appearance, although that may have triggered some of the 'but it's not authentic!' comments from the usual crowd of people who don't know what they're talking about. You really don't notice the split-ring construction from more than a few feet away. I got out of the armor racket for a while, and about 10 years ago I met someone in the SCA grumbling about how difficult it was to make good mail, and how it rusted etc. etc. I decided that it was worth another look, only this time I was going to go wholesale. A tour through the Thomas Register and some phone calls yielded info from three companies that made rings, and would sell in bulk. Let me start by describing the rings in more detail. As far as shape, they look exactly like miniature key rings. The wire is left round, unlike some keyrings where the wire is formed as two mating semi-circular pieces. Some manufacturer's rings have a series of small dents where the forming equipment 'grabbed' the wire. The rings are available in a range of sizes from about 1/8" OD (a No. 0) to about 3/4" OD (a No. 12). Most old mail is made with a single ring size, but some interesting effects could be had by mixing sizes. The rings are made of nickel or copper-plated spring steel, or in plain or black stainless steel. This gives the possibility of designing a coat of arms into the mail, using different colors. They are also available in nickel-plated or polished brass, but it will be weaker, and not authentic, to the best of my knowledge. You have to be careful when mixing the rings from different sources, because the sizes vary slightly from one vendor to the next. The diameter of the wire used also varies, which makes some of the rings a bit 'thin' looking', while others are more 'chunky'. This will have a big impact on the weight of the final result. Once you know how chain mail is 'woven', linking the rings is a snap (literally). You can buy (or make) a special pair of pliers for linking the rings efficiently, and with minimum damage to the plating. One jaw of the pliers is flat, and the opposing jaw has a wegde shaped point that comes down against the first jaw. The pliers simultaneously hold the ring, and the wedge pries the layers apart to hook them onto another ring. Once you get a ring started this way, a quick twist of the wrist will complete the linking From gwhite@ll.mit.edu Wed Dec 29 21:20:59 EST 1993 Article: 3016 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Chain Mail (Apology) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec20.152332.18236@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 10:23:26 -0500 Lines: 16 I seem to be having problems getting anything lengthy posted entact. At least what I am seeing here is getting chopped after a certain point. My original posting on chain mail includes a list of vendors and prices, which has been missing from both versions recieved here. If anyone is interested, I can try emailing the whole thing (that might or might not have the same problem). I would be curious to know if anyone has received the entire message at their site. At this time, I have no way of knowing if the problem is with sending or receiving at my end. Sorry for the confusion. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory gwhite@ll.mit.edu From iainw@bnr.ca Wed Dec 29 21:20:59 EST 1993 Article: 3017 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!bmdhh130!iainw From: iainw@bnr.ca (Iain Woolf) Subject: Simple question about "guage" thickness Message-ID: <1993Dec20.154915.6163@bnr.ca> Sender: iainw@bnr.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh12 Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 15:49:15 GMT Lines: 16 Could someone please tell me how thick the various "guages" for sheet metal are? I will be ordering some alumin(i)um or steel sheet in the near future to make up some brackets for bits on my car. The variou thicknesses on offer are 10, 14, 16, 18 and 20 guage. What is the equivalent thickness in millimetres? Thanks in advance, Iain. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Iain Woolf, BNR, Maidenhead UK | My opinions are my opinions /~\__ (0628) 794537 esn 590-4537 | iainw@bnr.ca ^^ O -- O ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From trk@hemlock.cray.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:00 EST 1993 Article: 3018 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: seeking opinions on lathe purchase Message-ID: <1993Dec19.222104.15880@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 28 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: Distribution: usa Date: 19 Dec 93 22:21:04 CST Bill W. Martin (MARTIN@cubic.com) wrote: : Anyone care to lend an opinion on which of the following lathes : would be the most desirable to take home? I would suggest that they are all reasonable machines to build up on. Assuming they are all used machines, you should consider closely which one is in best condition. The tooling that "comes with" is also potentially significant since it can represent a very large investment. The condition of the tooling is also relevant, of course... buying a machine because it has a whole pile of tooling isn't very smart if the tooling is so much scrap. Out of curiosity, would you care to elucidate on what comes with each and give some indication of the asking prices? you may get better feedback. Are they ex-machine shop, Technical College,... ? I should have such decisions. Santa, Santa, wherefore art thou, Santa... *grin* Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:00 EST 1993 Article: 3019 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!mrtnt.ntrs.com!tntvax!bbw1 Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Specs for 5C collets? Message-ID: <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax> From: bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com Date: 20 Dec 93 14:43:48 -0600 Organization: Northern Trust Company Lines: 18 Would someone who owns a collet lathe that uses 5C collets be so kind as to post the specifications for a 5C collet? I have only one home made collet for my lathe and would like to know if it is 5C compatible before I go and order more collets. E-mail or a post to this group , either is fine with me. Thanks in advance Barry -- Barry B. Wolinetz | Opinions etc.... mine, not those of the Northern Trust Co. | Northern Trust. Chicago, Il | | "My boolean, why can't you be true?" | Not(Chuck Berry) From gwhite@ll.mit.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:01 EST 1993 Article: 3020 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Specs for 5C collets? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec21.001936.4026@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 19:19:33 -0500 Lines: 42 In article <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax>, writes: > Would someone who owns a collet lathe that uses 5C collets be so kind as to > post the specifications for a 5C collet? > > I have only one home made collet for my lathe and would like to know if it is > 5C compatible before I go and order more collets. > > E-mail or a post to this group , either is fine with me. > > Thanks in advance > > Barry > -- > Barry B. Wolinetz | Opinions etc.... mine, not those of the > Northern Trust Co. | Northern Trust. > Chicago, Il | > | "My boolean, why can't you be true?" > | Not(Chuck Berry) > I don't have the specs, but before you go shopping, I may be able to help you get the most for your money. I recently bought a lathe, and I'm in the process of checking out the very mixed collection of collets (5C's) I have acquired over the years. I have collets from every vendor I know of except Enco, from Hardinge to Phase II. Preliminary results indicate (literally) that Lyndex collets (available from Penn tool for $9 a piece) are generally as accurate as anything I've got. They have sharp edges and aren't polished the way the Hardinge collets are, but they don't cost $30-$40 either. A friend of mine bought a whole bunch of Enco collets, and had to return a bunch for excessive runout. The Lyndex collets have the internal thread in the back, which is required for some collet stops. Many cheap collets do not. Most of the Lyndex collets have basically zero runout, with an occasional one thats out by 4/10ths. I have a few holes in my collection, and after I get the time to check a few more, I'm going to buy Lyndex and spend a few minutes knocking the edges off with an Arkansas stone. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU Wed Dec 29 21:21:01 EST 1993 Article: 3021 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel!rat!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: Sender: news@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 02:02:12 GMT Lines: 25 There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... what it's good for and what it's not; as well as some rather bizzare applications. Some say it contains water, others say no. Some say it contains alcohol. People use it for a rust protectant, but some say it is no better than any other oil. Is it good for clocks? To spray into a wet distributor? I'd particularly like to know if it is usable as a cutting or tapping fluid. It smells good, so like most other things that smell, taste or feel good, is it bad for you? One guy even says it helps his arthritic joints! So how about a thread on WD40? Let's separate the facts from the fiction. If you have first-hand experience with WD40, how about a comment? But be fair. If your experience is based on only one incident, either good or bad, that may be a result of coincidence or other factors. Be sure of your facts, and let's not libel the WD40 company. And if you have any bizzare stories or rumors, please label them as such. ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 From EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:02 EST 1993 Article: 3022 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!EPLUS17 From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Lathing a bike seatpost from 30.2 t0 30.0 m Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 21:03:13 CST Organization: C.C.S.O. Lines: 31 Message-ID: <16CAA1281A.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <16CA4D9E8S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> <2f476n$pvl@oak.oakland.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: vmd.cso.uiuc.edu In article <2f476n$pvl@oak.oakland.edu> mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) writes: >In article M16302@mwvm.mitre.org, M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: >> >>I've been told that I could lathe down a 30.2 mm post safely. Any idea where >>I should take this to be done. What sort of machine shop ?? >> >>The post I'm thinking of is made of an alloy referring to in bicyling circles >>as Chrome-Molly. >> > >I doubt it's made of a CrMo alloy. It's probably 6061 T6 aluminum, like most >seatposts. > >While there *are* alloy steel seatposts, they're too thin to turn down. > >--mike > To get longer seatposts of the right diameters for our tandems, I ground 0.2mm off several aluminum alloy seatposts using a bench mounted belt sander; took about 5 minutes per seatpost. In days before my belt sander, I hand filed and sanded several 22.2mm(English) stems to fit into 22.0mm(French) fork steerer tubes; not as quick as with a belt sander, but it can be done. Given the odd shaped lump of metal at the top of the seatpost, I am not sure how easy it would be to turn one down on a lathe. ..Richard > From cyrus1@netcom.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:02 EST 1993 Article: 3023 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!cyrus1 From: cyrus1@netcom.com (Cyrus H. Lendvay) Subject: DuraCharge Message-ID: Followup-To: poster Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 04:35:53 GMT Lines: 5 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:28745 rec.crafts.metalworking:3023 Does anyone have a current address for a company named DuraCharge? My father has one of their cordless drills but they've moved and he needs to get a new battery fo r it. Thanks for the help. From WALKERMM@delphi.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:03 EST 1993 Article: 3024 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: WALKERMM@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: chain mail Date: Tue, 21 DEC 93 00:27:26 EST Organization: Delphi Internet Lines: 28 Message-ID: <931221.01646.WALKERMM@delphi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com dear gental Yes i figure your from or hang areound the SCA. I am both a jeweler of sorts and a metal worker. First let me say that chain mail has been used by just about every metal working society in History including the metal starved Japanies, and a s late as the 1800's in Europe. so what time period are you talking about. The split ring is authentick but you will allways be fixing it as times gose by and is one of the forms that didnot survive as well. The key ring form is closest to the simple fo rm of double link or triple link these are later developements in Europe and I've heard that in the 1800's the quaddruple link would stop a musket ball. The problem was that the ball stoped in the middle of a persons chest taking the chainmail with it. y ou could remove the chainmail from the corpse,wash it off and the chainmail was fine undamaged. Many cultures used a sericies of chainmail and plates allowing higher protection to vital areas flexibilities to all the others. You only had to wory about someone with a heavy gauge ice pick planning to speradding the links, which unsecured links will ea sly do. The best exaples of chainlink patterns out side of very specific texts would be The encilopedia of jewelry making. or something like that it's the one that retails for about $100.00. If your going to use split rings I would recomened that you do what jewelers do for jump rigs slitly twist the ring apart then back together after it's in place. They don't try to pinch the rings closed like a crabs claw. The metals springeness will never allow for a complet closeur. Also I have never seen to need to buy rings when you can buy metal spings or wind the rings on a mandral and then cut them off aas needed most people in the SCA know this trick. From iainw@bnr.ca Wed Dec 29 21:21:03 EST 1993 Article: 3025 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!bmdhh130!iainw From: iainw@bnr.ca (Iain Woolf) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec21.100507.15445@bnr.ca> Sender: iainw@bnr.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh12 Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK References: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 10:05:07 GMT Lines: 33 In article gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: > > >There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... >what it's good for and what it's not; as well as some rather bizzare >applications. Some say it contains water, others say no. Some say it >contains alcohol. People use it for a rust protectant, but some say it >is no better than any other oil. Is it good for clocks? To spray into >a wet distributor? I'd particularly like to know if it is usable as a >cutting or tapping fluid. It smells good, so like most other things >that smell, taste or feel good, is it bad for you? One guy even says >it helps his arthritic joints! > >So how about a thread on WD40? Some first-hand experience: WD40 *is* good as a moisture dispersant(?) - well it gets rid of water, and so I have found it most effective when my car won't start because its damp. Off with the distributor cap, spray a bit of WD40 in, pop it back on and vroom away.... I wouldn't say its the best penetrating lubricant (coz I don't think it is), but as a thin oil in a can goes, it does its job. (For rusty nuts and bolts, I find a product called "Plus-Gas" to work wonders. I'm only a customer.) WD40 Contains water? Pah! Iain. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Iain Woolf, BNR, Maidenhead UK | My opinions are my opinions /~\__ (0628) 794537 esn 590-4537 | iainw@bnr.ca ^^ O -- O ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:04 EST 1993 Article: 3026 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 1993 12:50:44 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 5 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2f6rf4$56p@oak.oakland.edu> References: <1993Dec21.100507.15445@bnr.ca> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu WD-40 is basically kerosene and DMSO. As such, it's a fine moisture displacer and a good penetrating oil, but a poor lubricant. Good for cleaning parts, too. --mike From wwebster@bnr.ca Wed Dec 29 21:21:04 EST 1993 Article: 3027 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user From: wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Sender: news@bnr.ca (usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: 47.220.4.73 Organization: Bell Northern Research References: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 14:05:18 GMT Lines: 31 In article , gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) wrote: > > > There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... > what it's good for and what it's not; as well as some rather bizzare > applications. In the model airplane community, we use it as an after-run oil. Basically, after a day of flying, we spray some into the carb of the engine, turn it over a few times, connect the battery, and flip start the motor. Yes, these little motors will actually run briefly on a few squirts of WD40. The normal fuel we use attracts water and the WD40 is used to coat the motor inards. So far, after many years of WD40, none of my motors have rust. We also use it for cleaning the engines after an abrupt meeting with tera-firma. On the down side of this WD40 application, if a motor is not used for 5 years, the WD40 in the motor goes ghewy. So for long term storage, one can use transmission oil or reslone (I think that's how to spell it). I've also sprayed it directly onto the wet distributor cap of my car. A good dowsing, and the engine fired right up. Great for driving away water. Lastly, I use it on wet/dry paper when polishing my little engine parts. Bill Webster (WWEBSTER@BNR.CA) From john@cirrus.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:05 EST 1993 Article: 3028 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john From: john@cirrus.com (John Wishneusky) Subject: Re: Specs for 5C collets? Message-ID: <1993Dec21.152852.7615@cirrus.com> Sender: news@cirrus.com Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc. Fremont, California References: <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 15:28:52 GMT Lines: 11 In article <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax> bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com writes: >Would someone who owns a collet lathe that uses 5C collets be so kind as to >post the specifications for a 5C collet? > I've a "collet lathe" that uses 5C collets, but I don't see any specs hanging off either the lathe or the collet. Why not boogie over to the nearest library and look them up yourself in a Machinery's Handbook? John From powers@cis.ohio-state.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:05 EST 1993 Article: 3029 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce From: powers@cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 1993 10:59:41 -0500 Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science Lines: 10 Message-ID: <2f76hdINN3fm@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu> References: <1993Dec21.100507.15445@bnr.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu I use WD40 to remove asphaltum varnish after etching name/date on custom knives. I also carry it to use on damascus steel knives after someone whoose brain has excessive runout has fingerprinted them. It also removes buffing compound residue from pommels and guards; but be careful of porous handle materials around it. Thomas Columbus OH From gwhite@ll.mit.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:06 EST 1993 Article: 3030 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <1993Dec21.100507.15445@bnr.ca> <2f6rf4$56p@oak.oakland.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 10:27:21 -0500 Lines: 16 In article <2f6rf4$56p@oak.oakland.edu>, writes: > > WD-40 is basically kerosene and DMSO. As such, it's a fine moisture displacer > and a good penetrating oil, but a poor lubricant. Good for cleaning parts, too. > > --mike > DMSO? That's an organic solvent that's particularly efficient at transporting nasty chemicals through the skin. I'm not sure I want to absorb either Kerosene or anything I've washed off of something else into my system. Are you sure about this? I consider this far more worrysome than the water rumor. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From gwhite@ll.mit.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:06 EST 1993 Article: 3031 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec21.153953.18086@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 10:39:51 -0500 Lines: 47 In article , writes: > There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... > what it's good for and what it's not; as well as some rather bizzare > applications. Some say it contains water, others say no. Some say it > contains alcohol. People use it for a rust protectant, but some say it > is no better than any other oil. Is it good for clocks? To spray into > a wet distributor? I'd particularly like to know if it is usable as a > cutting or tapping fluid. It smells good, so like most other things > that smell, taste or feel good, is it bad for you? One guy even says > it helps his arthritic joints! > > So how about a thread on WD40? > > Let's separate the facts from the fiction. If you have first-hand > experience with WD40, how about a comment? But be fair. If your > experience is based on only one incident, either good or bad, that may > be a result of coincidence or other factors. Be sure of your facts, > and let's not libel the WD40 company. And if you have any bizzare > stories or rumors, please label them as such. > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu > Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism > CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 The few times I've used it, I've always found that something called LPS-1 works as well (or better?). They appear to be very similar, and may even be chemically identical, I just happen to use the LPS. The same company makes an LPS-2 and 3. LPS-2 is a much heavier lubricant, and 3 is designed to leave a protective residue for long term rust protection ('mothballing'). They also make an 'Electro-Contact Cleaner' that is a good cleaning solvent. I've used LPS to clean up bike chains, lubricate an alarm clock gear train, free up a sticky emergency brake cable, oil the throttle cable on my lawn mower, and countless light lubricating and cleaning jobs. I much prefer Liquid Wrench if I need a penetrating oil. All of these tests are highly subjective. I do seem to recall hosing down something with WD-40 that rusted much more quickly than I thought it should. I don't recall that happening with LPS-1. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From rcj@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:07 EST 1993 Article: 3032 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj From: rcj@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (R.C. Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <15184@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> Date: 21 Dec 93 16:18:26 GMT References: Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research Co., La Habra, CA Lines: 11 Every time it rains in Orange County (not often). I use WD40 to spray the distributor and spark wires which instantly stops sputtering. WD40 loosens nuts, but over time hardens which tends to 'glue' a nut in place. -- |___________________________________________________________________| >>| Dik Jones, Earth Model Interpretation Internet: rcj@Chevron.com | | Chevron Petroleum Technology Company. Tel: (310) 694-7056 | | La Habra, California 90633-0446 Fax: (310) 694-7063 | From mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:07 EST 1993 Article: 3033 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 1993 16:32:04 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 17 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2f78e4$m4n@oak.oakland.edu> References: <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article 17611@ll.mit.edu, Doug White writes: > >In article <2f6rf4$56p@oak.oakland.edu>, writes: >> >> WD-40 is basically kerosene and DMSO... >> >DMSO? That's an organic solvent that's particularly efficient at transporting >nasty chemicals through the skin. I'm not sure I want to absorb either >Kerosene or anything I've washed off of something else into my system. Are >you sure about this? ... Yep. Read it in another forum. It also has some detergents, I believe. The DMSO is why horse trainers spray it on sprains. From sheba@panix.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:08 EST 1993 Article: 3034 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!panix!not-for-mail From: sheba@panix.com (Bathsheba Grossman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: milling Everdur Date: 21 Dec 1993 11:31:46 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 8 Message-ID: <2f78di$2pa@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com I find myself milling a lot of Everdur bronze lately, and am wondering if there are any tricks to the stuff. I know large shops keep separate sets of cutters for brass, but don't know exactly what the difference is or if I should be using them for this. I'm using a 3/8" 2-flute end mill at about 2000 rpm, and while it cuts fine, the tool seems to dull awfully quickly. -Sheba (100 lbs scrap and a Sherline. B) ) From sheba@panix.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:08 EST 1993 Article: 3035 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!panix!not-for-mail From: sheba@panix.com (Bathsheba Grossman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: anodizing a handful o parts Date: 21 Dec 1993 11:45:43 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 11 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2f797n$4li@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com I rather desperately need anodizing done in small quantities: a few dozen parts at a time. The volume I anticipate doesn't seem to justify investing in my own setup, even if I knew what I was doing and had room for it, but I haven't had any luck locating a commercial service. The phone book has entries under Anodizing, but they aren't very friendly (in fact, they behave like pond scum) to the small occasional. So, does someone know who would do this in the New York area, or by mail? Thanks. -Sheba From dow@crl.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:09 EST 1993 Article: 3036 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!barrnet.net!nntp.crl.com!crl.crl.com!not-for-mail From: dow@crl.com (Dow Thompson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: need logos for your business? Date: 21 Dec 1993 09:46:05 -0800 Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access (415) 705-6060 [login: guest] Lines: 9 Message-ID: <2f7cot$mnf@crl.crl.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: crl.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] WHAT'S IN A NAME? When it's yours,a lot. It's your most valuable professional asset. A well designed logo will give that name stronger impact. High visability. And staying power. In short, a logo is a potent image builder. My logos tells your customer a lot about you. At first glance, your customed-designed logo suggests a level of success. an established identity, your individuality and exclusively your own. If you need a logo, let me design one for you. From dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us Wed Dec 29 21:21:10 EST 1993 Article: 3037 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: New Departure Message-ID: <1025.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 21 Dec 93 10:22:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 17 I have a copy of a New Departure ball bearing design manual. It's Part II, with Part I presumably being roller bearings, since the ball bearing coverage is quite complete. The manual I have shows design and load factors for automobile applications like transmissions, differentials, and axles. I'd like to get the first manual, and an updated copy of the one I have, which dates from around 1950, best as I can tell. (no date, address, or copyright information in the manual, but it was with a bunch of other late '40s, early '50s engineering books I bought in a package deal) Unfortunately my 1993 Machine Design Vendor Annual doesn't list New Departure, nor do any other listings I have, going back to 1976. Does anyone know what happened to New Departure? Did they change their name, get absorbed, or just go belly up? From richley@parc.xerox.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:10 EST 1993 Article: 3038 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!decwrl!parc!richley From: richley@parc.xerox.com (Ed Richley) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: anodizing a handful o parts Date: 21 Dec 1993 18:46:16 GMT Organization: Xerox Palo Alto Research Center Lines: 11 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2f7g9o$eb5@news.parc.xerox.com> References: <2f797n$4li@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deneb.parc.xerox.com There are two local plating shops that our machine shop uses. I've taken some aluminum to one of them for black anodization. They were pretty obnoxious, but they did it. Basically, a small pile of parts like you could hold in both hands (a dozen or so parts of a few inches typical dimension) fell in under the $50 minimum. Thus, I conclude that plating shops will do a shoebox full of parts for about $50. Look under "plating" in the yellow pages. Ed Richley richley@parc.xerox.com From dmiller@ccd.harris.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:11 EST 1993 Article: 3039 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!jabba.ess.harris.com!mlb.semi.harris.com!controls.ccd.harris.com!dmiller From: dmiller@ccd.harris.com (David E. Miller) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec21.182703.13686@ccd.harris.com> Sender: usenet@ccd.harris.com Organization: Harris Controls Division X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] References: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 18:27:03 GMT Lines: 23 Greg Lewis (gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU) wrote: : There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... . . . . . . : is no better than any other oil. Is it good for clocks? To spray into . . . . . . ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is NOT good for clocks. My father repairs clocks, and he often charges extra when someone brings in a clock that has been WD40'd. It really gums up the works. I have seen the results when I help him. It is not pretty. (off topic) I hand made a pendulum rod with him over Thanksgiving. It looked great if I do say so myself. (back on topic) WD40 is great for many things. Just not clocks. Heck, I've even used it as bug spray in a pinch. -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Excuse me, could you help me? I'm a spy." Tom Baker as the Doctor in _Genesis of the Daleks_ David E. Miller dmiller@ccd.harris.com From gwhite@ll.mit.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:11 EST 1993 Article: 3040 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: milling Everdur Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec21.205920.28548@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <2f78di$2pa@panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 15:59:18 -0500 Lines: 39 In article <2f78di$2pa@panix.com>, writes: > > I find myself milling a lot of Everdur bronze lately, and am wondering > if there are any tricks to the stuff. I know large shops keep separate > sets of cutters for brass, but don't know exactly what the difference is > or if I should be using them for this. I'm using a 3/8" 2-flute end mill at > about 2000 rpm, and while it cuts fine, the tool seems to dull awfully > quickly. > > -Sheba (100 lbs scrap and a Sherline. B) ) I'm not sure about your tools dulling quickly, although I think I have heard somewhere that some bronzes can be a bit abrasive. I have recently run into a problem with drilling brass that might help. I was boring a 1/4" hole in some 5/8" brass rod on my lathe. The first drill I tried was brand new, and VERY sharp. It would dig in, and cut off center. I tried varying the feed rate, but I ended up with a hole that was at least 30 thousandths oversize! Attempt No. 2 was done with a drill that I had just about completely removed the rake angle on, using an Arkansas stone. This worked fine. The idea is that brass (and other soft materials, like plastic) is best cut almost with a scraping action, rather than with a sharp edge that can dig in. This can be a lifesaver (literally) on plastic. Many plastics will expand into a hole you are drilling, and grab the drill bit. This can be agravated by having a sharp angle on your drill. Before I learned to regrind my drills and clamp things securely, I had a big piece of PVC ripped out of my hands when it froze on a 1/2" bit. Although I haven't seen them in any of my catalogs, a friend of mine had a set of special drills for brass and plastic that were basically half round, no twist, and no rake. I've seen similar bits for sale, but never an indexed set specifically marked for soft materials. Milling presents its own problems, because its going to be tough to find an end mill with a shallow rake angle, and I'd hate to try to touch one up with a stone. There are a lot of funny specialty mills available, and it might be worth looking for one. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:12 EST 1993 Article: 3041 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Swords Message-ID: <1993Dec21.204313.15204@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 20:43:13 GMT Lines: 16 yku00971@cawc.yorku.ca (Peter Philips) writes: : Does anyone out there make swords? I know it is somewhat of an usual : request but I have always had an intersted in these and have collected them : for several years now. I feel an urge to get another one for my collection : but cannot afford the $150+ for a new one. ANy comments? Please dont : reply on the newsgroup as I do not monitor it regularly. EMAIL is : preffered. Thanks I am going to post here anyway - i case others are curious. Any sword that costs less than $150 is going to be junk. It takes a lot of work and time to make a sword. Most people are not willing to work for $1-$2 an hour. There are many people who could produce a sword for under $150 - but they would not be of a quality to go in a collection. Bill From Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:12 EST 1993 Article: 3042 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!destroyer!gumby!wmu-coyote!Dale From: Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Dale Gee) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec21.220337.21841@sol.cs.wmich.edu> Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept. References: <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> <2f78e4$m4n@oak.oakland.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 22:03:37 GMT Lines: 8 Used WD-40 to salvage a keyboard that had froze up solid from the pepis syndrome Also used it as a hand cleaner. Works great in removing oil and grease. Dale From billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:13 EST 1993 Article: 3043 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Fullers in Swords Message-ID: <1993Dec21.204939.15433@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 20:49:39 GMT Lines: 13 johnri@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: : : I have made one sword and am going to start on another soon. My : question is this. How do I clean and smooth the fullers in the blade once : they are forged in. I don't have access to a belt grinder with a small : wheel attachment and I'd rather not spend much money for a new special : fuller cleaning/grinding tool. Any help here would be appreciated. I would rather NOT polish them. I would rather leave the forging marks, to show that they were hand forged, and not simply ground into the metal. Just a personal preference. Bill From burl@gergo.tamu.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:13 EST 1993 Article: 3044 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.tamu.edu!gergo.tamu.edu!burl From: burl@gergo.tamu.edu (Burl C. Tanner) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 1993 18:03 CST Organization: Geochemical and Environmental Research Group - TAMU Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: <21DEC199318032623@gergo.tamu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: gergo.tamu.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 In article , gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes... > >There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... i know that it works fine as a water dispersant and for washing off salt residue. i used to work doing oceanographic research and the sea water was always doing something to the electronics and other pieces of equipment. i would have to take electronics enclosures apart on deck to "repair" them. waves crashing over the gun'ales and all. i used wd-40 liberally on the electronics and i had fewer severe problems than a lot of other people. though that "lack of problems" stuff got me sent to sea a lot more often, no money though. burl@gergo.tamu.edu this space for rent, post no bills From isr@mothra.syr.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:14 EST 1993 Article: 3045 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!newstand.syr.edu!mothra.syr.edu!isr From: isr@mothra.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account) Subject: Split Ring mail Message-ID: <1993Dec21.160614.16091@newstand.syr.edu> Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY Distribution: na Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 16:06:14 EST Lines: 215 If this arrives entact, the last line is 'MIT Lincoln Laboratory' The problem appears to be on the sending end, and I have placed an irate phone call to the bozos who wrote my software. If you could post this, I would appreciate it. Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I originally responded to this thread directly with its originator, Joel Chambers (ravenous@cnj.digex.com) because I didn't expect much interest in this area. Seeing that I was mistaken, I have organized my notes into something a bit more presentable. About 20 years ago, I discovered an easy way to make rust-proof chain mail. The only drawback is that it isn't cheap. However, it's not outrageously expensive either, depending on your personal definition of outrageous. The secret is to buy 'split rings' designed for making fishing lures. These are basically miniature keyrings (the 2-turn overlapping spring variety) used to hold the hooks on fishing lures. At the time, I bought nickel plated spring-steel rings for about a penny a piece from a semi-retail source. This was expensive enough that I only made small pieces of mail for helmets and the like. After complaints that split rings weren't 'authentic', I did some research and found a photo in one of the big armor books of some split-ring mail in a Swiss museum. Unfortunately, I lost my notes on the reference, but Joel is trying to track it down again. Joel is concerned that it won't look enough like classic chain mail to avoid snide comments. I never had too many complaints about general appearance, although that may have triggered some of the 'but it's not authentic!' comments from the usual crowd of people who don't know what they're talking about. You really don't notice the split-ring construction from more than a few feet away. I got out of the armor racket for a while, and about 10 years ago I met someone in the SCA grumbling about how difficult it was to make good mail, and how it rusted etc. etc. I decided that it was worth another look, only this time I was going to go wholesale. A tour through the Thomas Register and some phone calls yielded info from three companies that made rings, and would sell in bulk. Let me start by describing the rings in more detail. As far as shape, they look exactly like miniature key rings. The wire is left round, unlike some keyrings where the wire is formed as two mating semi-circular pieces. Some manufacturer's rings have a series of small dents where the forming equipment 'grabbed' the wire. The rings are available in a range of sizes from about 1/8" OD (a No. 0) to about 3/4" OD (a No. 12). Most old mail is made with a single ring size, but some interesting effects could be had by mixing sizes. The rings are made of nickel or copper-plated spring steel, or in plain or black stainless steel. This gives the possibility of designing a coat of arms into the mail, using different colors. They are also available in nickel-plated or polished brass, but it will be weaker, and not authentic, to the best of my knowledge. You have to be careful when mixing the rings from different sources, because the sizes vary slightly from one vendor to the next. The diameter of the wire used also varies, which makes some of the rings a bit 'thin' looking', while others are more 'chunky'. This will have a big impact on the weight of the final result. Once you know how chain mail is 'woven', linking the rings is a snap (literally). You can buy (or make) a special pair of pliers for linking the rings efficiently, and with minimum damage to the plating. One jaw of the pliers is flat, and the opposing jaw has a wegde shaped point that comes down against the first jaw. The pliers simultaneously hold the ring, and the wedge pries the layers apart to hook them onto another ring. Once you get a ring started this way, a quick twist of the wrist will complete the linking operation. It's almost as fast as working with butted rings, and much faster than riveted or welded rings. The results are gorgeous, and practically indestructable. Bright nickel-plated mail is really lovely stuff. Because the rings are designed for fishing gear, even the plated rings are pretty rust proof. The spring steel is VERY strong. If someone gave me the choice of taking a sword blow in this stuff or any other mail I've seen, I'd vote for this in an instant. Below is a summary of the info I got from the vendors. This is all from 1982, so the prices are certainly out to lunch. These were just the companies that responded to my original inquires. Some of them may have folded, but the Thomas Register can probably supply more. Where possible, I have quoted prices for No. 6 (about 3/8" OD) and No. 10 (about 5/8" OD) rings, because I think that is the useful size range for mail. The exact materials available vary from vendor to vendor. Worth Manufacturing Company Stevens Point, Wisconsin 54481 Worth was one of the biggest tackle supply houses, so they should still be around. Nickel or Copper Plated Steel: No. 6, $7.15/K, No. 10, $12.15/K 3% discount for orders over 25K pieces. Pliers are $8.25 ------------------------------------------------------------- Lakeland Incorporated Tel: (612) 676-3666 Isle, MN 56342 Carry German-made nickel plated rings in sizes up to No. 6, ($8.86/K) Carry US made SS rings up to No. 7. No. 6, $10.82/K 2% discount for quantities over 5K. Pliers are $6.40. ------------------------------------------------------------- ROSCO (Div of Rome Specialty Company) Tel: (800) 448-1206 501 W. Embargo St., Box 109 Rome, NY 13440 Carries US made SS rings. These have the little dents from forming. No. 6, $11.90/K, No. 10, $27.60/K Add $1.00/K for black finish. No quantity discount listed. No pliers listed. If you give them a specific size, most places will send samples along with their literature. Although I like the idea of stainless, I think I prefer the Worth rings. They come in the broadest range of sizes and finishes, and have no forming dents. I did some calculations based on using No. 6 rings, and came up with about $150 for a full mail shirt. Unfortunately, I can't find my notes on that either. Depending upon whether manufacturing technology has improved, this could probably go up or down by $50. I apologize for the antiquity of this data, but I don't have the time to hunt down fresh prices and sources given that I'm out of the armor business again. I have sent photocopies of a bunch of stuff to Joel who is looking into current prices and such. I'm sure he will report on his findings. I hope someone out there takes this idea and runs with it. No one here at the time could work up much enthusiasm for it because of the price. The older one gets, the more valuable time becomes, and this is certainly a fast way to build truly superb mail. It is also possible to make your own rings if time is not an issue. They could be wound on a mandrel in the usual fashion, but you have to come up with an efficient way of cutting ever OTHER wire. If the wire is springy enough (which the SS probably would be) you might be able to do it with a pointy set of wire cutters. The only problem I see with this is that it will leave a million sharp burrs. These could probably be dulled by tumbling with ceramic media (which would also polish the rings). Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From lps@rahul.net Wed Dec 29 21:21:15 EST 1993 Article: 3046 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!a2i!lps From: lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: Sender: news@rahul.net (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: bolero Organization: a2i network References: Distribution: na Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 00:46:04 GMT Lines: 11 WD40 and a Bic lighter can make a pretty good flamethrower for use with a garbage can full of maggots for instance. They sure wiggle fast then! Kevin Martinez lps@rahul.net -- --------------------------------------- Member of the Vicki Robinson Fan Club Kevin Martinez lps@rahul.net -------------------------------------- From jed@skyler.arc.ab.ca Wed Dec 29 21:21:15 EST 1993 Article: 3047 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!mercury.arc.ab.ca!news From: jed@skyler.arc.ab.ca (Jed Sutherland) Subject: Re: Chain Mail Message-ID: Sender: news@arc.ab.ca (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: mac.7.58.arc.ab.ca Organization: Alberta Research Council References: <1993Dec17.140917.16101@ll.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 22:18:00 GMT Lines: 34 I am looking for information on the technology of making mail because I am interested in the fashion aspects of chain mail (like kilts, bustiers). Do you have any references for books on making mail? >I got out of the armor racket for a while, and about 10 years ago I met >someone in the SCA grumbling about how difficult it was to make good mail, >and how it rusted etc. etc. I decided that it was worth another look, only >this time I was going to go wholesale. A tour through the Thomas Register >and some phone calls yielded info from three companies that made rings, and >would sell in bulk. Could you tell me the names of those companies? How many rings does it take to make, say, a square foot of armour? >Once you know how chain mail is 'woven', linking the rings is a snap >(literally). I am assuming that the rings link with all the adjoining rings. Is that correct? >You can buy (or make) a special pair of pliers for linking the >rings efficiently, and with minimum damage to the plating. One jaw of the >pliers is flat, and the opposing jaw has a wegde shaped point that comes down >against the first jaw. Are there any sources for the pliers? Any drawings available so that I could have one made or modified? Thanks in advance for answering. Jed Sutherland From gaudio@euler.Berkeley.EDU Wed Dec 29 21:21:16 EST 1993 Article: 3048 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!euler.Berkeley.EDU!gaudio From: gaudio@euler.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Gaudio) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 22 Dec 1993 01:58:21 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Lines: 16 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2f89jt$7j5@agate.berkeley.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: euler.berkeley.edu 'WD' stands for 'water displacement', useful for blowing off water off circuitry that's already wetted. like most petroleum products, WD-40 reacts with air and becomes acidic, speeding corrosion. i recommend wax or LPS-3 for such protection. WD-40 also removes old adhesive tape residue. faster than denatured, safer than acetone. but i still think it's overrated as a lubricant. and it smells like hell. -steve. From fsmaw@aurora.alaska.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:16 EST 1993 Article: 3049 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!fsmaw From: fsmaw@aurora.alaska.edu Subject: wd40 Message-ID: <1993Dec21.165906.1@aurora.alaska.edu> Lines: 6 Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: aurora.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 01:59:06 GMT just my two cents on the thread about WD40....i'm not a very mechanical person, but WD40 has worked great when i am cleaning up my bicycle at the beginning and end of each summer season....it gets rid of most of the accumulated rust and grime and just generally makes it work more smoothly than before i sprayed and scrubbed it down with the stuff.... From ebo@algodones.unm.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:17 EST 1993 Article: 3050 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 22 Dec 1993 02:51:41 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 12 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2f8cntINN63o@lynx.unm.edu> References: <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> <2f78e4$m4n@oak.oakland.edu> Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: algodones.unm.edu >>DMSO? That's an organic solvent that's particularly efficient at transporting >>nasty chemicals through the skin. I'm not sure I want to absorb either >>Kerosene or anything I've washed off of something else into my system. Are >>you sure about this? ... >Yep. Read it in another forum. It also has some detergents, I believe. The DMSO >is why horse trainers spray it on sprains. are you telling me that horse trainers spray DW-40 on their horses sprains, or are you saying that they use DMSO? EBo -- From neilm@halcyon.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:17 EST 1993 Article: 3051 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 1993 18:53:23 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 39 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92v (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> gwhite@ll.mit.edu writes: > > > In article <2f6rf4$56p@oak.oakland.edu>, writes: > > > > WD-40 is basically kerosene and DMSO. As such, it's a fine moisture displacer > > and a good penetrating oil, but a poor lubricant. Good for cleaning parts, > too. > > > DMSO? That's an organic solvent that's particularly efficient at transporting > nasty chemicals through the skin. I'm not sure I want to absorb either > Kerosene or anything I've washed off of something else into my system. Are > you sure about this? I consider this far more worrysome than the water rumor. I've quipped that WD-40 is to machines what DMSO is to people a number of times but I don't believe that WD contains any. (For those who don't remember, DMSO was touted as a cure-all a few years back.) Several years ago I had a bad shoulder and a horse-trainer friend had some veterinary-grade DMSO. Helped the shoulder the first couple of times, then I started to develop an allergy to it. My hide would get red and sting like hell. I stay away from it now. (You also get a taste in your mouth that's been described as oysters with garlic. No. I like both, and it doesn't taste like either one.) Point is, I slopped the hell out of some gear with WD last night and got plenty on me. If there was DMSO in it, believe me, I'd know. You'd all be able to hear me howling. I like it for lubricating/driving moisture out of locks, un- squeaking squeaky hinges, stuff like that. Don't use it on guns without making damn sure it's dried out. The carrier, whatever it is, will allegedly get past a crimp and neutralize primers. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA My account My PC My opinion From neilm@halcyon.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:18 EST 1993 Article: 3052 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: chain mail Date: 21 Dec 1993 18:53:26 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 19 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <931221.01646.WALKERMM@delphi.com> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92v (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <931221.01646.WALKERMM@delphi.com> WALKERMM@delphi.com writes: > > sly do. The best exaples of chainlink patterns out side of very specific texts > would be The encilopedia of jewelry making. or something like that it's the one > that retails for about $100.00. If your going to use split rings I would He might mean "Jewelry - Concepts and Technology" by Oppi Untracht, 1982. Doubleday, New York, NY. Jacket on my copy says $75. Chapter 6 covers wire, and pages 196 through 203 discuss chain mail specifically. Cheers! Neil -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA My account My PC My opinion From slindsay@nyx.cs.du.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:18 EST 1993 Article: 3053 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!slindsay From: slindsay@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steve Lindsay) Subject: Lapidary diamond band saw Message-ID: <1993Dec22.041151.12414@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 04:11:51 GMT Lines: 12 A few weeks ago there was a thread about diamond band saws. I missed most of the thread. Is a diamond band saw just as good as a slab saw plus you can cut circles? Is it slower than a slab saw? I have an old Lapidary Journal (Nov 88) with an ad from Gryphon Corporation with one in it. Does anyone know anything about this brand and what other manufactures are there? Thanks for any help Steve From mgc@unislc.slc.unisys.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:19 EST 1993 Article: 3054 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrhub2!ncrgw2.ncr.com!psinntp!relay1!unislc!mgc From: mgc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Marc Christensen) Subject: Re: Coal Fired Forge X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] References: <2eq8gdINN97m@softtail.ksu.ksu.edu> Message-ID: <1993Dec20.235652.13066@unislc.slc.unisys.com> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 23:56:52 GMT Lines: 18 Firewalker (mongo@softtail.ksu.ksu.edu) wrote: : I may have the opportunity to aquire a coal fired forge in the near future. : While I hope to do a little trading for it, i was wondering what it was : worth. It is coal fired with a squirrel cage fan. It has an assortment : of hooks, tongs, and miscellaneous other tools with it (but I doubt I could get : the hammers) as well as about 1/3 of a 55 gal barrel of coal. : Aside from wondering what it's worth, does anyone know of a place in Kansas : to get suitable coal?? I would assume you should be able to use charcoal instead. I will sure be cleaner Marc Christensen From steve@bluesky.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:19 EST 1993 Article: 3055 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrhub2!ncrgw2.ncr.com!psinntp!bluesky!steve From: steve@bluesky.com (Steve Hampson) Subject: Re: Lathing a bike seatpost from 30.2 t0 30.0 mm Message-ID: <1993Dec20.201746.381@bluesky.com> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 20:17:46 GMT References: <16CA4D9E8S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> Organization: Blue Sky Research Lines: 24 In article <16CA4D9E8S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: >I need a mountain bike seatpost that I have not been able to find in the >size I need. I need a 30.0 diam, 400 mm length, with a standard offset to >the rear. > >I've been told that I could lathe down a 30.2 mm post safely. Any idea where >I should take this to be done. What sort of machine shop ?? > >I live in the Washington, D.C. area. > >The post I'm thinking of is made of an alloy referring to in bicyling circles >as Chrome-Molly. A machine shop would probably charge you a minimum. Around here it's about $40. Note that .2mm = .008" aprox. -- not very much. I would be tempted to use a file and emery paper or perhaps find a hobby machinist to turn it down for you. -- Steve Hampson 503 222 9571 Blue Sky Research 800 622 8398 534 SW 3rd Avenue fax 503 222 1643 Portland, OR 97204 From keating@rtsg.mot.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:20 EST 1993 Article: 3056 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mothost!delphinium.cig.mot.com!galena13!keating From: keating@rtsg.mot.com (Edward Keating) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Date: 21 Dec 93 17:29:33 GMT Organization: Motorola Cellulsr Infrastructure Group Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: galena13.rtsg.mot.com gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: >There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... >what it's good for and what it's not; as well as some rather bizzare >applications. Some say it contains water, others say no. Some say it >contains alcohol. People use it for a rust protectant, but some say it >is no better than any other oil. Is it good for clocks? To spray into >a wet distributor? I'd particularly like to know if it is usable as a >cutting or tapping fluid. It smells good, so like most other things >that smell, taste or feel good, is it bad for you? One guy even says >it helps his arthritic joints! >So how about a thread on WD40? Kerosene and a bit of a detergent. It does dry, check the film that is left. Kerosene in addition to being a fuel, is also an excellent lubricant. I buy my kerosene in bulk and use it in place of WD40. Smells the same and performs the same functions. (removes labels just as well as WD40.) -- Original by keating@rtsg.mot.com "Flame all you want, we'll make more." "Beware of Geeks bearing gifs." From mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU Wed Dec 29 21:21:20 EST 1993 Article: 3057 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!crux.rp.CSIRO.AU!mgoris From: mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU (Mal Goris) Subject: Pinchbeck Message-ID: <1993Dec20.062209.9036@rp.CSIRO.AU> Keywords: pinchbeck metal Lines: 5 Sender: usenet@rp.CSIRO.AU (Network news) Nntp-Posting-Host: miraculix Organization: CSIRO Division of Radiophysics/Australia Telescope National Facility Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 06:22:09 GMT Has anyone heard of pinchbeck? I have been reading Far from the Madding Crowd by Thomas Hardy in which he refers to it (chapter 22). The footnotes describe it as a cheap alloy made up of five parts copper and one of zinc which looks like gold. It was named after Christopher Pinchbeck, a watchmaker who died in 1732. -- Mal Goris mgoris@rp.csiro.au From richard@pegasus.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:21 EST 1993 Article: 3058 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!richard From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec21.223917.986@pegasus.com> Organization: Pegasus, Honolulu References: <1993Dec21.100507.15445@bnr.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 22:39:17 GMT Lines: 17 >Some first-hand experience: WD40 *is* good as a moisture dispersant(?) >- well it gets rid of water, and so I have found it most effective >when my car won't start because its damp. Off with the distributor >cap, spray a bit of WD40 in, pop it back on and vroom away.... > > [...] > >WD40 Contains water? Pah! > I have a vague recollection of some Navy types on the net saying that WD40 was banned from sea-duty because it attracts water, and eventually causes rust. -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com From cav@bnr.ca Wed Dec 29 21:21:21 EST 1993 Article: 3059 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bnr.ca!cav From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Coal Fired Forge Date: 22 Dec 1993 14:49:46 GMT Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2f9mqa$hae@bmerha64.bnr.ca> References: <2eq8gdINN97m@softtail.ksu.ksu.edu> <1993Dec20.235652.13066@unislc.slc.unisys.com> Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) NNTP-Posting-Host: bmerh364.bnr.ca In article <1993Dec20.235652.13066@unislc.slc.unisys.com>, mgc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Marc Christensen) writes: |> Firewalker (mongo@softtail.ksu.ksu.edu) wrote: |> |> : I may have the opportunity to aquire a coal fired forge in the near future. |> : While I hope to do a little trading for it, i was wondering what it was |> : worth. It is coal fired with a squirrel cage fan. It has an assortment |> : of hooks, tongs, and miscellaneous other tools with it (but I doubt I could get |> : the hammers) as well as about 1/3 of a 55 gal barrel of coal. |> |> : Aside from wondering what it's worth, does anyone know of a place in Kansas |> : to get suitable coal?? |> |> I would assume you should be able to use charcoal instead. I will sure be |> cleaner |> |> Marc Christensen |> |> |> Cleaner yes, but MUCH more expensive. Charcoal burns very fast in a forge, and (I understand) that you have to use real wood charcoal, not the briquets that have been pressed out of charcoal dust (they contain a binding agent that causes problems). Not sure how easy it is to get up to welding temp. with charcoal in a conventional forge. In our area, good forge coal is not that easy to find. You need connections. I suggest you contact blacksmiths and/or blacksmith's associations in your area. I think the coal I've got in the past originated in Pennsylvania, and changed hands a number of times before it got to me. Once my forge is up and running again, I'll have to get more. That 1/3 of a barrel should last you some time while you look for a local source. Used intelligently, coal is a very economical fuel. Cheers, Rick C. From frisbie@flying-disk.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:22 EST 1993 Article: 3060 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Specs for 5C collets? Message-ID: <1993Dec22.085940.177@flying-disk.com> Date: 22 Dec 93 08:59:40 PST References: <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 27 In article <1993Dec20.144348.1@tntvax>, bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com writes: > Would someone who owns a collet lathe that uses 5C collets be so kind as > to post the specifications for a 5C collet? When I needed detailed information on 5C collets, I called Hardinge Brothers, Inc. They responded by FAXing a copy of their engineering sketch ("For identification purposes only") of it. If anyone needs a copy, just send a SASE to me at the address below. I also have their sketches for the R8, 3C and 1A collets. These sketches are considerably more detailed than the ones in their catalog. If you are *really* desperate I can FAX it to you. To aid in identification of 5C collets: Overall length: 3-27/64" Shank diameter: 1-1/4" Taper angle: 10 degrees Outside Thread: 1-15/64-20 Threaded length: 19/32" -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From escott@eos.ncsu.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:22 EST 1993 Article: 3061 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!taco!escott From: escott@eos.ncsu.edu (Erik Scott) Subject: Re: New Departure Message-ID: <1993Dec22.164211.21315@ncsu.edu> Originator: escott@c00037-5pa.eos.ncsu.edu Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: escott@eos.ncsu.edu (Erik Scott) Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos References: <1025.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 16:42:11 GMT Lines: 13 dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes: > Does anyone know what happened to New Departure? Did they change their > name, get absorbed, or just go belly up? Just a few clues: About ten years ago I saw a couple of boxes of bearings marked "New Departure Hyatt" with a GM logo above the name. Makes sense that a maker of bearings for transmissions, differentials, and axles would attract the interest of GM. Probably swallowed whole. :-) -- Erik Scott From rondeauda1@woods.uml.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:23 EST 1993 Article: 3062 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!woods.uml.edu!rondeauda1 From: rondeauda1@woods.uml.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Lathing a bike seatpost from 30.2 t0 30.0 mm Date: 22 Dec 93 12:58:43 -0500 Organization: University of Massachusetts Lowell Lines: 8 Message-ID: <1993Dec22.125843.1@woods.uml.edu> References: <16CA4D9E8S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: aspen.uml.edu In article <16CA4D9E8S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org>, M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: > I need a mountain bike seatpost that I have not been able to find in the > size I need. I need a 30.0 diam, 400 mm length, with a standard offset to > the rear. Try a local vocational high school. I'm sure they would be happy to help out. As long as the stock is provided, most vocational will do all machining for free. From brian.morgan@sdrc.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:23 EST 1993 Article: 3063 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!heimdall!sdrc.com!brian.morgan From: brian.morgan@sdrc.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <5647@heimdall.sdrc.com> Date: 22 Dec 93 21:14:30 GMT References: <15184@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> Sender: news@heimdall.sdrc.com Distribution: na Organization: SDRC Lines: 5 I've used it for all kinds of things, many of which have been mentioned above. I have cleaned bike chains with it without removing them (just soak it good, most of the crud runs off). It will also remove pine sap from your hands! Brian From MARTIN@cubic.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:25 EST 1993 Article: 3064 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!cubic.com!wmata.wd.Cubic.COM!MARTIN From: MARTIN@cubic.com (Bill W. Martin) Subject: Re: New Departure Nntp-Posting-Host: wmata.wd.cubic.com References: <1025.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Sender: news@cubic.com (News) Organization: CARCG Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 22:07:06 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 26 In article <1025.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes: >Subject: New Departure >From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) >Date: 21 Dec 93 10:22:00 GMT > > I have a copy of a New Departure ball bearing design manual. It's Part >II, with Part I presumably being roller bearings, since the ball bearing >coverage is quite complete. The manual I have shows design and load >factors for automobile applications like transmissions, differentials, >and axles. > > I'd like to get the first manual, and an updated copy of the one I >have, which dates from around 1950, best as I can tell. (no date, >address, or copyright information in the manual, but it was with a bunch >of other late '40s, early '50s engineering books I bought in a package >deal) Unfortunately my 1993 Machine Design Vendor Annual doesn't list >New Departure, nor do any other listings I have, going back to 1976. > > Does anyone know what happened to New Departure? Did they change their >name, get absorbed, or just go belly up? > Hummmm. I think they ceased to exist a few years ago. Had to re-machine some parts of a roll-in saw cause the original bearings where no longer available. Bah, Humbug! bill From jed@skyler.arc.ab.ca Wed Dec 29 21:21:25 EST 1993 Article: 3065 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cs.ubc.ca!alberta!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!mercury.arc.ab.ca!news From: jed@skyler.arc.ab.ca (Jed Sutherland) Subject: Re: Chain Mail (Apology) Message-ID: Sender: news@arc.ab.ca (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: mac.7.58.arc.ab.ca Organization: Alberta Research Council References: <1993Dec20.152332.18236@ll.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 22:08:19 GMT Lines: 18 In article <1993Dec20.152332.18236@ll.mit.edu> Doug White writes: > >I seem to be having problems getting anything lengthy posted entact. At >least what I am seeing here is getting chopped after a certain point. My >original posting on chain mail includes a list of vendors and prices, >which has been missing from both versions recieved here. > >If anyone is interested, I can try emailing the whole thing (that might or >might not have the same problem). I would be curious to know if anyone >has received the entire message at their site. At this time, I have no >way of knowing if the problem is with sending or receiving at my end. To Doug White: I tried to email you at your listed address but had no luck. My system doesn't recognize your server. Perhaps you could try emailing to mine. Thanks Jed Sutherland From pnur2314@altair.selu.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:26 EST 1993 Article: 3066 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!altair.selu.edu!pnur2314 From: pnur2314@altair.selu.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Help on gunsmithing Message-ID: <1993Dec22.181931.5352@altair.selu.edu> Date: 22 Dec 93 18:19:31 -0600 Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University Lines: 7 Can anyone point me in the direction of finding technical publications on gunsmithing? Also, are their any trade publications or periodicals on this subject? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Mike From twf99@isuvax.iastate.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:26 EST 1993 Article: 3067 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!isuvax.iastate.edu!TWF99 From: twf99@isuvax.iastate.edu Subject: Re: New Departure Message-ID: Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: twf99@isuvax.iastate.edu Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa References: <1025.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 01:01:40 GMT Lines: 40 In article <1025.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us>, dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes: > > I have a copy of a New Departure ball bearing design manual. It's Part >II, with Part I presumably being roller bearings, since the ball bearing >coverage is quite complete. The manual I have shows design and load >factors for automobile applications like transmissions, differentials, >and axles. > > I'd like to get the first manual, and an updated copy of the one I >have, which dates from around 1950, best as I can tell. (no date, >address, or copyright information in the manual, but it was with a bunch >of other late '40s, early '50s engineering books I bought in a package >deal) Unfortunately my 1993 Machine Design Vendor Annual doesn't list >New Departure, nor do any other listings I have, going back to 1976. > > Does anyone know what happened to New Departure? Did they change their >name, get absorbed, or just go belly up? > New Departure is (was) a division of General Motors and has (was) been for many years. Just like Delco. I have not used any of their bearings lately and don't know if G.M. has stopped making their own bearings or not. I suggest you check with one of the major bearing distribuator in your area. Such as Berry Bearing, Dixie Bearing etc. Just check your yellow pages. In terms of good design manuals I have used a very good one by Fafnir. TIMKEN also has a very good design manual but of course if is for tapered roller bearings only. (TIMKEN only makes tapered roller bearings.) I got my copies for free many years ago when I was a mechanical engineering student. The data has not changed much and most of the sizes are interchangeable between manufactuers. (That does not mean that the bearings all perform the same in heavy service.) We for example have much longer life from TIMKEN's and FAG's bearings in rolling mill service that we do from someother manufactuers. Dave Smucker, ALCOA Flat Rolled Products Engineering From slindsay@nyx.cs.du.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:27 EST 1993 Article: 3068 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!slindsay From: slindsay@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steve Lindsay) Subject: Making diamond files Message-ID: <1993Dec23.024855.8729@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 02:48:55 GMT Lines: 8 Does anyone know how to charge a piece of metal with diamond compound? I would like to make various diamond carving tools and files to carve in stone. Is there a simple way to adhere the diamond? Thanks From zimmerma@acs.ucalgary.ca Wed Dec 29 21:21:27 EST 1993 Article: 3069 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!acs.ucalgary.ca!zimmerma From: zimmerma@acs.ucalgary.ca (Louis Victor Zimmerman) Subject: Re: Tempering oils Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 05:31:30 GMT References: Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta Lines: 29 In article YOURLOGIN@YOURCOMPUTER.austin.ibm.com writes: >I suppose you don't have to worry about coronary occlusion in your blades if > you use these polyunsaturated oils ;=) >Hank > Gee, hadn't considered the blades... does anyone know if butter knives have a higher incident of heart failure than vegetable knives? %-) But seriously, folks, I did try the corn oil. No apparent problems (this was not a hardening quench, so the temperatures were low enough that viscosity breakdown did not seem to be a problem.) I haven't gotten around to the finishing grind yet: we'll see if anything fishy has occured then... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- #include --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Louis V. Zimmerman | I do not speak for ACTC Technologies, NAPRA, Software Development | the Calgary Metal Detecting Club, or the Engineer | University of Calgary. |-------------------------------------------------- ACTC Technologies Inc. | Please support Nanotechnology and the Human Calgary, Alberta | Genome project. I'd like to live long enough | to catch up on my household chores... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cstone@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au Wed Dec 29 21:21:28 EST 1993 Article: 3070 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!uniwa!nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au!cstone From: cstone@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au (Charlie Stone 4915162) Subject: Re: Making diamond files Organization: Network Computer Centre, Telecom, Perth Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 08:50:16 GMT Message-ID: <1993Dec23.085016.12218@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au> References: <1993Dec23.024855.8729@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Lines: 46 In article <1993Dec23.024855.8729@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> slindsay@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steve Lindsay) writes: > >Does anyone know how to charge a piece of metal with diamond compound? >I would like to make various diamond carving tools and files to carve in >stone. >Is there a simple way to adhere the diamond? It certainly looks easy when you see it done. A pal of mine does this from time to time with 100% success. He makes the file shape in bronze welding rod (easy to work) and then plates that with nickel. I think that he said he used Watts solution ( a standard electroplaters solution - get it from a tame local plater). He has a small porous cylinder made out of an old grindstone. It is about 3/4 the size of a 35 mm film canister, and though `old grindstone' sounds a bit rough, the finished container is beautifully made with walls about 1/32 inch thick and a bottom of perspex glued on. He pours the diamond powder into this cylinder, pushes the file blank vertically into it like a stick in a bucket of sand, and lowers the lot into a small container of the nickel plating solution. He has a nickel electrode (sheet metal) that wraps around the outside of the cylinder. The other electrode is the file blank. For power he uses one D size torch battery (1.5 V). The plating takes 7 - 8 hours, slowly building up a matrix of diamond and nickel. Hey presto!! Diamond file. Charlie Stone ............................................................................. : : : : : \--------------------------(^)--------------------------/ : : ___|___ : : : : cstone@netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au : :...........................................................................: : Charlie Stone. : A Control Line modeller who has : : Perth, Western Australia. : retired from flying full scale Gliders,: : : prefers to use Imperial measurement, : : : and likes the Australian flag as it is : :..................................:........................................: From gwhite@ll.mit.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:28 EST 1993 Article: 3071 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Help on gunsmithing Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1993Dec23.142627.9238@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <1993Dec22.181931.5352@altair.selu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 09:26:25 -0500 Lines: 26 In article <1993Dec22.181931.5352@altair.selu.edu>, writes: > Can anyone point me in the direction of finding technical > publications on gunsmithing? Also, are their any trade > publications or periodicals on this subject? > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Mike > The best place to start is to get a Brownells catalog. I don't have an address here, but they might be in the FAQ, and they advertise in the American Rifleman. If you want to get into gunsmithing, I assume you are an NRA member. The Brownells catalog contains tools, parts, books, and materials for the majority of any gunsmithing project you might have in mind. The catalog is an education in itself. If you have an FFL, or can convince them that you are a legitimate gunsmith, the catalog prices have a hidden discount, otherwise they are a bit pricey. They sell some tools good for general shop work that are unavailable elesewhere. They have a tapping guide that has saved me many a busted tap over the years. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From ralph@astolastro.lu.se Wed Dec 29 21:21:29 EST 1993 Article: 3072 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph From: ralph@astolastro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec23.160827.15781@nomina.lu.se> Sender: ralph@astol (Ralph Snel) Nntp-Posting-Host: nastol.astro.lu.se Organization: Lund Observatory References: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 16:08:27 GMT Lines: 7 In article , gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: > [...] One guy even says > it helps his arthritic joints! > My granddad uses it for that, and claims there's nothing better... Ralph From ralph@astolastro.lu.se Wed Dec 29 21:21:29 EST 1993 Article: 3073 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph From: ralph@astolastro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) Subject: Re: Fullers in Swords Message-ID: <1993Dec23.161703.16078@nomina.lu.se> Sender: ralph@astol (Ralph Snel) Nntp-Posting-Host: nastol.astro.lu.se Organization: Lund Observatory References: <1993Dec21.204939.15433@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 16:17:03 GMT Lines: 23 In article <1993Dec21.204939.15433@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes: > johnri@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: > : > : I have made one sword and am going to start on another soon. My > : question is this. How do I clean and smooth the fullers in the blade once > : they are forged in. I don't have access to a belt grinder with a small > : wheel attachment and I'd rather not spend much money for a new special > : fuller cleaning/grinding tool. Any help here would be appreciated. > > I would rather NOT polish them. I would rather leave the forging marks, > to show that they were hand forged, and not simply ground into the metal. > Just a personal preference. > A matter of taste... If you want a hypothetical cheap solution: get an old file with the right curvature, remove the handle, and attach something so you canslide it down the fuller. I haven't tried this, but it seems like something that can work. Finish with sandpaper around a metal/wooden rod. Ralph ralph@astro.lu.se From ralph@astolastro.lu.se Wed Dec 29 21:21:30 EST 1993 Article: 3074 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph From: ralph@astolastro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) Subject: Re: Coal Fired Forge Message-ID: <1993Dec23.162739.16462@nomina.lu.se> Sender: ralph@astol (Ralph Snel) Nntp-Posting-Host: nastol.astro.lu.se Organization: Lund Observatory References: <2eq8gdINN97m@softtail.ksu.ksu.edu> <1993Dec20.235652.13066@unislc.slc.unisys.com> <2f9mqa$hae@bmerha64.bnr.ca> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 16:27:39 GMT Lines: 33 In article <2f9mqa$hae@bmerha64.bnr.ca>, cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) writes: > In article <1993Dec20.235652.13066@unislc.slc.unisys.com>, mgc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Marc Christensen) writes: > |> Firewalker (mongo@softtail.ksu.ksu.edu) wrote: > |> > |> : I may have the opportunity to aquire a coal fired forge in the near future. > |> : While I hope to do a little trading for it, i was wondering what it was > |> : worth. It is coal fired with a squirrel cage fan. It has an assortment > |> : of hooks, tongs, and miscellaneous other tools with it (but I doubt I could get > |> : the hammers) as well as about 1/3 of a 55 gal barrel of coal. I recently bought one (actually three) in here in Sweden, no tools, for the equivalent of $70. The tools are nice to have, they go for up to $10 a piece here (but if you're lucky you can buy a whole batch for the price of one). > |> I would assume you should be able to use charcoal instead. I will sure be > |> cleaner > > Cleaner yes, but MUCH more expensive. Charcoal burns very fast in a forge, > and (I understand) that you have to use real wood charcoal, not the briquets > that have been pressed out of charcoal dust (they contain a binding agent > that causes problems). Not sure how easy it is to get up to welding temp. > with charcoal in a conventional forge. One of the nicer things to weld with actually. If you have hardwood charcoal you get as hot a fire as with coal, but with very little slag. Ralph (just as a hobby though) ralph@astro.lu.se From neidorff@uicc.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:30 EST 1993 Article: 3075 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!world!mv!chillon!neidorff From: neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec23.164703.14321@uicc.com> Originator: neidorff@makore.uicc.com Sender: news@uicc.com (USENET News System) Organization: Unitrode Integrated Circuits Corp., Merrimack, NH References: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 16:47:03 GMT Lines: 32 I have heard that it is basically kerosene, detergent, and a propellent. The detergent may contain water, but if it does, it isn't much. The kerosene makes a good solvent for grimy oil and such, and is also a good aluminum cutting fluid. However, kerosene has bad fumes, and is flammable. It is probably bad to breath, so I think that WD40 is a BAD CHOICE for a general household lubricant. The kerosene is volatile, so any lubrication from the kerosene is temporary. It probably leaves the detergent behind which is less of a quality lubricant and more of a cleaning compound. I have heard that for delicate mechanisms, it is a no-no. Spray or dropper 3-in-1 oil is much preferred. This is the advice of a sewing machine repair man. I guess that same advice goes for small clocks. I would be extremely careful what is put into a watch. For unsticking rusted bolts, I have never had success with WD40. Liquid Wrench works better. Brute force is almost always still required. For door hinges, it WD40 is a temporary fix. 3-in-1 oil is still a better choice. In summary, WD40 is a good aluminum cutting fluid and a good solvent for grime in mechanisms. -- Bob Neidorff; Unitrode I. C. Corp. | Internet: neidorff@uicc.com 7 Continental Blvd. | Voice : (US) 603-424-2410 Merrimack, NH 03054-0399 USA | FAX : (US) 603-424-3460 From neidorff@uicc.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:31 EST 1993 Article: 3076 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!world!mv!chillon!neidorff From: neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff) Subject: Reversable Electric Drill Chuck Mount? Message-ID: <1993Dec23.164942.14403@uicc.com> Followup-To: poster Originator: neidorff@makore.uicc.com Sender: news@uicc.com (USENET News System) Organization: Unitrode Integrated Circuits Corp., Merrimack, NH Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 16:49:42 GMT Lines: 20 I have a forward only electric drill. The chuck is threaded on 3/8-24. Pretty standard stuff. I have modified it to be reversable. It was easy. Now the chuck keeps unscrewing. No suprise. How do they attach chucks to reversing drills? Is there a set screw? Key? Flat? Pin? Can I modify my cheapo chuck like this or do I want a different chuck? Thanks for the advice. Please reply directly and if there is interest, I will summarize to the newsgroup. -- Bob Neidorff; Unitrode I. C. Corp. | Internet: neidorff@uicc.com 7 Continental Blvd. | Voice : (US) 603-424-2410 Merrimack, NH 03054-0399 USA | FAX : (US) 603-424-3460 From sticha@blazer9.Berkeley.EDU Wed Dec 29 21:21:31 EST 1993 Article: 3077 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!delphinium.cig.mot.com!blazer9!sticha From: sticha@blazer9.Berkeley.EDU (David A. Sticha) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Help on gunsmithing Date: 23 Dec 1993 17:38:40 GMT Organization: Motorola Cellulsr Infrastructure Group Lines: 43 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2fcl30$qh3@delphinium.cig.mot.com> References: <1993Dec22.181931.5352@altair.selu.edu> <1993Dec23.142627.9238@ll.mit.edu> Reply-To: sticha@blazer9.Berkeley.EDU (David A. Sticha) NNTP-Posting-Host: blazer9.rtsg.mot.com In article <1993Dec22.181931.5352@altair.selu.edu>, writes: >> Can anyone point me in the direction of finding technical >> publications on gunsmithing? Also, are their any trade >> publications or periodicals on this subject? >> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >> >> Mike >> >The best place to start is to get a Brownells catalog. I don't have an >address here, but they might be in the FAQ, and they advertise in the >American Rifleman. If you want to get into gunsmithing, I assume you >are an NRA member. The Brownells catalog contains tools, parts, books, >and materials for the majority of any gunsmithing project you might have >in mind. The catalog is an education in itself. If you have an FFL, >or can convince them that you are a legitimate gunsmith, the catalog >prices have a hidden discount, otherwise they are a bit pricey. They >sell some tools good for general shop work that are unavailable >elesewhere. They have a tapping guide that has saved me many a busted >tap over the years. > >Doug White >MIT Lincoln Laboratory Brownell's 200S. Front St. Montezuma, IA 50171 515-623-5401 phone 515-623-3896 fax Catalog is $3.75, will take VISA over the phone for it. But I got mine for free. Don't know why, they just never asked. They carry many books with info you can't find in a lot of the "home gunsmith" type of books. I highly recommend them. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Sticha (sticha@rtsg.mot.com) Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group - Arlington Heights IL "If we make enough laws, we can all be criminals." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From qwerty@tunisia.ssc.gov Wed Dec 29 21:21:32 EST 1993 Article: 3078 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!news.ssc.gov!tunisia.ssc.gov!qwerty From: qwerty@tunisia.ssc.gov (Kris Schludermann) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.ssc.gov Nntp-Posting-Host: tunisia.ssc.gov Organization: Superconducting Super Collider lab References: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 22:59:18 GMT Lines: 7 I use it on all my rubber belts and hoses. so far i have 170k (6 years) on the factory set. all the hosese are still soft and pliable, same goes for all the rubber boots on the fuel injection system electrical connection. i also use it on CV joint boots & to purge brake residual brake fluid out of the bleeder vavle. you can literally see the rubber soak up the WD-40. kris From gt0035b@prism.gatech.EDU Wed Dec 29 21:21:32 EST 1993 Article: 3079 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!prism!gt0035b From: gt0035b@prism.gatech.EDU (Henry Sommer) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <128894@hydra.gatech.EDU> Date: 24 Dec 93 04:49:16 GMT References: <1993Dec21.152723.17611@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@prism.gatech.EDU Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Lines: 23 here's a few places I've told not to use it. near paint. the painet where I usedt( to work got mad because I sprayed it in the same end of the shop where he was working. He said it contained silicone. as a cutting or tapping fluid Carrol smith prepare to win. In locks it atracts dirt and gums the hell out of the locks i have heard this one numerous times from loksmiths and others. If it does contain silcone that is why it works good with rubber which is suposed to repond well to an ocasial blast of silicone spray. PB Blaster Or Garila knocker works better for free rusted bolts. Ask anyone that works in a mufler shop (a real good place to find nabsty rusted resembalcs of bolts.) -- Henry Sommer Mechanical Engineering student gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu Georgia Institute of Technology From lew@hscw194.UUCP Wed Dec 29 21:21:33 EST 1993 Article: 3080 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc.edu!hacgate!hscw194!lew From: lew@hscw194.scg.hac.com (Lyman Lew) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: New Departure Message-ID: <39084@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> Date: 23 Dec 93 21:28:28 GMT References: <1025.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Sender: news@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM Reply-To: lew@hscw194.UUCP (Lyman Lew) Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA Lines: 18 In article <1025.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes: > > > > Does anyone know what happened to New Departure? Did they change their >name, get absorbed, or just go belly up? > I've heard second hand that New Departure maybe out of business. I would check the Thompson directory to be sure. American ball bearing industry took a big hit these last several years when cheaper imported bearings flooded the market. Some of the model airplane motors I've stripped down that used to use Fafnir and New Departure are using imported bearings from Japan. From mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU Wed Dec 29 21:21:33 EST 1993 Article: 3081 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!merlin!mel.dit.csiro.au!its.csiro.au!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!crux.rp.CSIRO.AU!mgoris From: mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU (Mal Goris) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec23.024956.26353@rp.CSIRO.AU> Keywords: WD-40 clock watch Lines: 31 Sender: usenet@rp.CSIRO.AU (Network news) Nntp-Posting-Host: miraculix Organization: CSIRO Division of Radiophysics/Australia Telescope National Facility References: <1993Dec21.182703.13686@ccd.harris.com> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 02:49:56 GMT In article <1993Dec21.182703.13686@ccd.harris.com>, dmiller@ccd.harris.com (David E. Miller) writes: > Greg Lewis (gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU) wrote: > > : There are a lot of rumors and stories floating around about WD40... > . . . . . . > : is no better than any other oil. Is it good for clocks? To spray into > . . . . . . ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > It is NOT good for clocks. My father repairs clocks, and he often > charges extra when someone brings in a clock that has been WD40'd. > It really gums up the works. I have seen the results when I help > him. It is not pretty. > > (off topic) I hand made a pendulum rod with him over Thanksgiving. > It looked great if I do say so myself. (back on topic) > > WD40 is great for many things. Just not clocks. Heck, I've even > used it as bug spray in a pinch. Both my Uncle and Grandpa were watchmakers. WD-40 would probably be one of the worst possible lubricants for watches and clocks, according to them. Proper watch lubricant is a mix of vegetable oil and mineral oil. Mineral oil alone isn't suitable because it spreads out over the metal surfaces and doesn't stay where it was put. Vegetable oil does stay where it is put, but goes rancid after a time and ceases to properly lubricate. Hence a mix of the two tends to combine the best properties of each. WD-40 on the other hand is so volatile that after only a short period it would evaporate leaving a residue that would do more harm than good to the fine bearings in a watch. I've seen WD-40 used as a flame thrower. Light a match and direct a spray jet from a WD-40 pressure can over the match. -- Mal Goris mgoris@rp.csiro.au From neilm@halcyon.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:34 EST 1993 Article: 3082 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Jewelers' torches revisited Date: 25 Dec 1993 20:33:50 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 28 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92v (Beta) Originator: neilm@chinook.halcyon.com Hi all, I took the plunge and got a used "Little Torch" and just picked up regulators and an O2 tank (already had a 20# propane bottle). What a difference from the Bernz-O-Matic-on-a-hose I was using! Looks like I'm back almost to square one as far as my hard- soldering skills go. I'm used to having plenty of time while the work heats up. Gee, what am I going to do without having firescale to get rid of? With the new toys comes a question: What are other "Little Torch" (and other small torch) users setting for line pressure? The guy at the welding supply shop suggested 15#; that's 'way too much. In "Jewelry - Concepts and Technology," Untracht implies 6# for fuel and 8# for O2. Anyone use anything else? (Might this not make good FAQ-fodder, both for mini and standard torches? Or is it already in there and I just missed it?) Cheers! Neil -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA My account My PC My opinion From neilm@halcyon.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:35 EST 1993 Article: 3083 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Ooops! Sorry. Date: 25 Dec 1993 20:33:53 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 7 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92v (Beta) Originator: neilm@chinook.halcyon.com Sorry for the re-posts. That's what I get for trying to hold a screaming 6-week old and compute at the same time. ("I want Mommy so I can do the mammal thing! Waaaaah!") -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA My account My PC My opinion From pnur2314@altair.selu.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:35 EST 1993 Article: 3084 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!altair.selu.edu!pnur2314 From: pnur2314@altair.selu.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Dave Gingery home workshop Message-ID: <1993Dec26.190153.5372@altair.selu.edu> Date: 26 Dec 93 19:01:53 -0600 Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University Lines: 8 I am in search of a company that sells foundry supplies for the home hobbyists. Also, has anyone ever completed any of Dave Gingery's projects. Particularly, his home workshop series. Were there any unforseen problems involved in the construction of these machines. Thanks, Mike From juste001@maroon.tc.umn.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:35 EST 1993 Article: 3085 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!dialup-2-190.gw.umn.edu!juste001 From: JimJusten Subject: silverworking Message-ID: X-Xxmessage-Id: X-Xxdate: Sun, 26 Dec 93 20:23:48 GMT Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: dialup-2-190.gw.umn.edu Organization: just me international X-Useragent: Version 1.1.3 Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1993 02:16:38 GMT Lines: 6 Hello! Im wondering how much of this newsgroup will deal with !litttle metal! i.e. jewelry work. My girlfriend is interested, and quite a good silversmith..but rather frightened by the mere mention of Iron! Thanks! From morganh@atlas.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:36 EST 1993 Article: 3086 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!adcmail!morganh From: morganh@atlas.com (Morgan Hall) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <1993Dec27.152437.21976@atlas.com> Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc. References: <1993Dec23.164703.14321@uicc.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1993 15:24:37 GMT Lines: 11 Haven't seen this on here yet, so here's one for the WD40 fans: Here in the Pacific Northwest, it's heavily used as a salmon lure. Yep, just bait up the ol' hook, fly, lure, or whatever and saturate with WD40. The fish seem to love it. BTW -- I've been told that it's a fish oil base. Me? I dunno. Morgan From jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:36 EST 1993 Article: 3087 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf From: jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) Subject: Re: Jewelers' torches revisited Organization: Control Data Systems Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1993 16:48:45 GMT Message-ID: References: Sender: usenet@cdsmail.cdc.com (News Poster) Lines: 34 In article , neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) writes: |> Hi all, |> |> I took the plunge and got a used "Little Torch" and just |> picked up regulators and an O2 tank (already had a 20# propane |> bottle). |> |> What a difference from the Bernz-O-Matic-on-a-hose I was |> using! Looks like I'm back almost to square one as far as my hard- |> soldering skills go. I'm used to having plenty of time while the work |> heats up. Gee, what am I going to do without having firescale to get |> rid of? |> |> With the new toys comes a question: What are other "Little |> Torch" (and other small torch) users setting for line pressure? The |> guy at the welding supply shop suggested 15#; that's 'way too much. |> In "Jewelry - Concepts and Technology," Untracht implies 6# for fuel |> and 8# for O2. Anyone use anything else? |> |> (Might this not make good FAQ-fodder, both for mini and |> standard torches? Or is it already in there and I just missed it?) |> |> Cheers! |> Neil |> I'm thinking of getting one of these myself. I'd guess that both the numbers are still high. If I recall correctly (and that's not real likely) the 00 tip pressures for my rig (Harris, as sold by Sears) were about 6# O2, 3# acetylene. I'd think the Little Torch would be less. BTW, anyone have the list price and some mail order prices for the Little Torch? I'd like to buy locally to support my local merchants, but don't want to go a lot higher than I have to. From bej@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu Wed Dec 29 21:21:37 EST 1993 Article: 3088 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!bej From: bej@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Bruce E Johnson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Unfreezing Camera Date: 27 Dec 1993 19:02:36 GMT Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group Lines: 24 Message-ID: <2fnbgc$b0d@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu I have an old camera that I have been told is unrepairable; I suspect that it's not, but that repairing it would cost more than it's worth. To me this is a BIG green light, get out those screwdrivers and plier's, folk's, damn the brass screws, we're goin' IN! Of course, I would like to end up with a usable camera. The problem is that the focussing mechanism has frozen with time; the camera repair shop said that the brass sleeve had corroded, and frozen the works. This is a brass threaded sleeve that the aluminum fosusing ring turns around, moving the lens in and out to focus it. The camera was made in the early '50's. Does anyone have any ideas about what I could use to help loosen the corrosion, so I can get it apart and clean it? The lens is off the body, but the shutter and iris mechanism's are still in place. Thanks for any ideas, Bruce Johnson The University of Arizona bej@gas.uug.arizona.edu play johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu work My opininons, Mine, Mine, all Mine! Bwahahahaha! From brian.morgan@sdrc.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:37 EST 1993 Article: 3089 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!heimdall!sdrc.com!brian.morgan From: brian.morgan@sdrc.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Coal Fired Forge Message-ID: <5689@heimdall.sdrc.com> Date: 27 Dec 93 19:25:35 GMT References: <2eq8gdINN97m@softtail.ksu.ksu.edu> <1993Dec20.235652.13066@unislc.slc.unisys.com> <2f9mqa$hae@bmerha64.bnr.ca> Sender: news@heimdall.sdrc.com Distribution: na Organization: SDRC Lines: 6 I am interested in building and using a forge, for knife blades. Are there any books I should look for to get started? I haven't the foggiest on where to start. Thanks, Brian From neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org Wed Dec 29 21:21:38 EST 1993 Article: 3090 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1993 20:11:55 GMT Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX Lines: 8 In article lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) writes: > >WD40 and a Bic lighter can make a pretty good flamethrower for use with a >garbage can full of maggots for instance. They sure wiggle fast then! Hah! another spraycan pyro! The same trick works on wasp & hornet nests too. It also makes pretty good starting fluid for cold, stubborn gasoline engines. From laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov Wed Dec 29 21:21:38 EST 1993 Article: 3091 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!xenon.arc.nasa.gov!laforce From: laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov (Soren LaForce) Subject: Re: WD40-What's it good for? Message-ID: <27DEC199316445796@xenon.arc.nasa.gov> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: usenet@news.arc.nasa.gov Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035 References: Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1993 23:44:00 GMT Lines: 15 In article , neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) writes... >In article lps@rahul.net (Kevin Martinez) writes: >> >>WD40 and a Bic lighter can make a pretty good flamethrower for use with a >>garbage can full of maggots for instance. They sure wiggle fast then! > >Hah! another spraycan pyro! The same trick works on wasp & hornet nests too. > >It also makes pretty good starting fluid for cold, stubborn gasoline engines. Doesn't it hurt the paint, spraying that flaming wd40 all over? --Soren laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov From zimmerma@acs.ucalgary.ca Wed Dec 29 21:21:39 EST 1993 Article: 3092 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!acs.ucalgary.ca!zimmerma From: zimmerma@acs.ucalgary.ca (Louis Victor Zimmerman) Subject: Re: Coal Fired Forge Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1993 06:36:06 GMT Distribution: na References: <1993Dec20.235652.13066@unislc.slc.unisys.com> <2f9mqa$hae@bmerha64.bnr.ca> <5689@heimdall.sdrc.com> Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta Lines: 35 In article <5689@heimdall.sdrc.com> brian.morgan@sdrc.com writes: >I am interested in building and using a forge, for knife blades. Are >there any books I should look for to get started? I haven't the foggiest >on where to start. > Thanks, > Brian > Off the top of my leg (where it happens to be sitting... :-) ) "The Complete Bladesmith", subtitle "Forging Your Way to Perfection". Author: Jim Hrisoulas Printed by the Paladin Press, ISBN 0-87364-430-1 He has a second book out, who's name I forget because I don't have it yet... :-( A good source of books on all aspects of forging is the Centaur Forge catalog. Their address I don't have, as I don't have a catalog (had a good look at a friend's) but it's probably in the FAQ. Happy hammering! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- #include --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Louis V. Zimmerman | I do not speak for ACTC Technologies, NAPRA, Software Development | the Calgary Metal Detecting Club, or the Engineer | University of Calgary. |-------------------------------------------------- ACTC Technologies Inc. | Please support Nanotechnology and the Human Calgary, Alberta | Genome project. I'd like to live long enough | to catch up on my household chores... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frisbie@flying-disk.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:39 EST 1993 Article: 3093 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Dave Gingery home workshop Message-ID: <1993Dec27.224942.178@flying-disk.com> Date: 27 Dec 93 22:49:42 PST References: <1993Dec26.190153.5372@altair.selu.edu> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 28 In article <1993Dec26.190153.5372@altair.selu.edu>, pnur2314@altair.selu.edu writes: > Also, has anyone ever completed any > of Dave Gingery's projects. Particularly, his home workshop > series. Were there any unforseen problems involved in the > construction of these machines. A friend of mine has completed his second Gingery lathe. The first one was not to his liking, so he decided to do it again, applying what he had learned from the first one. The second time, he took advantage of my mill and lathe to speed things up. Yes, there were unexpected problems, but most of them came from trying to improve on Dave's design and procedures. They *were* improvements, but it sometimes took a few tries to get it right. When he started, he was an acomplished woodworker, but had never worked with metal. Last week he brought over a couple of test bars he had turned on his lathe using just a two-jaw chuck to hold them. In four inches length there was much less than 0.001" taper. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From tafuris@aa.wl.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:40 EST 1993 Article: 3094 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!envoy.wl.com!reeve.research.aa.wl.com!dom061.dom.aa.wl.com!user From: tafuris@aa.wl.com (S. Tafuri) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: metalsmithing classes in Ann Arbor, MI Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 29 Dec 1993 15:44:38 GMT Organization: Parke-Davis Lines: 5 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: dom061.dom.aa.wl.com I am looking to enroll in a intermediate metalsmithing course in Ann Arbor MI. If anyone has any information regarding where I could find an evening class that is offered to non-U mich students. So far all the community college listings I've seen contain only welding courses. Please respond by E-mail From trk@hemlock.cray.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:40 EST 1993 Article: 3095 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: DIY Small Crucible Furnace Message-ID: <1993Dec29.123840.16766@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 11 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] Date: 29 Dec 93 12:38:40 CST Following on from the recent conversations on making "devices in which to melt metal", I just received Vol. 171 No. 3958 (December 3-16, 1993) of the Model Engineer. Pages 705/6 contain a short article on a home-built propane gas fired furnace suitable or working with Alumin[i]um, brass and bronze. Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From dale.eason@stpaul.ncr.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:41 EST 1993 Article: 3096 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!ncrtimes!stpaul.ncr.com!dale.eason From: dale.eason@stpaul.ncr.com (Dale Eason) Subject: Live Steam mag index? Message-ID: Lines: 3 Sender: news@NCRTimes.stpaul.ncr.com Organization: NCR network products division Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1993 21:44:21 GMT I have just subscribed to Live Steam. Does anyone know of an index to back issues? dale.eason@.stpaul.ncr.com From dale.eason@stpaul.ncr.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:41 EST 1993 Article: 3097 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!ncrtimes!stpaul.ncr.com!dale.eason From: dale.eason@stpaul.ncr.com (Dale Eason) Subject: Making O gage live steam engine? Message-ID: Lines: 8 Sender: news@NCRTimes.stpaul.ncr.com Organization: NCR network products division Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1993 21:48:42 GMT I am interested in leaning how to make a O gage live steam engine. Does anyone know of any good books or catalogues about it. I have just subscribed to the Live Steam magazine so I know what is in there. Does anyone know where I can brouse through back issues of Live Steam in the The Minneapolis/St Paul area? Thanks. dale.eason@.stpaul.ncr.com From dale.eason@stpaul.ncr.com Wed Dec 29 21:21:42 EST 1993 Article: 3098 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!ncrtimes!stpaul.ncr.com!dale.eason From: dale.eason@stpaul.ncr.com (Dale Eason) Subject: metalworking clubs in ST Paul, MN. ? Message-ID: Lines: 7 Sender: news@NCRTimes.stpaul.ncr.com Organization: NCR network products division Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1993 21:52:06 GMT Are there any metalworking clubs or model machine clubs in the Twin City area? If not, anyone on the net interested in starting one? I always find it more enjoyable to be able to share ideas and ask question from others who have the same interests. dale.eason@.stpaul.ncr.com From charlie@say.acnatsci.org Wed Dec 29 21:21:42 EST 1993 Article: 3099 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eff!news.kei.com!nic.hookup.net!batcomputer!caen!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!say.acnatsci.org!charlie From: charlie@say.acnatsci.org (Medievalist) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Fullers in Swords Message-ID: <1993Dec29.162935.10@say.acnatsci.org> Date: 29 Dec 93 16:29:35 -0500 References: <203@barney.UUCP> Organization: The Academy of Natural Sciences Lines: 30 >In article <203@barney.UUCP>, david@barney.UUCP (David Hoopes) writes: >> johnri@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: >> >> >> I have made one sword and am going to start on another soon. My >>question is this. How do I clean and smooth the fullers in the blade once >>they are forged in[?] > > Ok, I give up. What are fullers? > You've probably heard of them by the name "blood gutters", which is a common misconception of what their purpose is. Basically, this /\ is almost as /\ which is much /\ / \ strong as / \ stronger than / \ | | | | | | ) ( ( ) | | | | | | | | \ / \ / \ / \/ \/ \/ These are all cross-sections of sword blades with "chisel" style edges. The first has a single fuller, the second a single rib, and the last is a generic flat blade. The ribbed blade is the strongest, but the fullered blade has the best strength/weight ratio. Thus a fuller is higly to be desired; it keeps your sword from flopping about like a movie prop without making it weigh a ton. Charlie Brooks From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david Fri Dec 31 22:32:13 EST 1993 Article: 3100 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david From: david@barney.UUCP (David Hoopes) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Fullers in Swords Message-ID: <210@barney.UUCP> Date: 30 Dec 93 14:25:15 GMT References: <203@barney.UUCP> <1993Dec29.162935.10@say.acnatsci.org> Organization: Exabyte, Lenexa (Formerly Tallgrass Technologies) Lines: 68 To: charlie@say.acnatsci.org Subject: Re: Fullers in Swords Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking References: <203@barney.UUCP> <1993Dec29.162935.10@say.acnatsci.org> In rec.crafts.metalworking you write: >>In article <203@barney.UUCP>, david@barney.UUCP (David Hoopes) writes: >>> johnri@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: >>> >>> >>> I have made one sword and am going to start on another soon. My >>>question is this. How do I clean and smooth the fullers in the blade once >>>they are forged in[?] >> >> Ok, I give up. What are fullers? >> > You've probably heard of them by the name "blood gutters", which > is a common misconception of what their purpose is. Basically, > this /\ is almost as /\ which is much /\ > / \ strong as / \ stronger than / \ > | | | | | | > ) ( ( ) | | > | | | | | | > \ / \ / \ / > \/ \/ \/ > These are all cross-sections of sword blades with "chisel" style > edges. The first has a single fuller, the second a single rib, and > the last is a generic flat blade. The ribbed blade is the strongest, > but the fullered blade has the best strength/weight ratio. Thus a > fuller is higly to be desired; it keeps your sword from flopping > about like a movie prop without making it weigh a ton. > Charlie Brooks Thank you for your explaination. I had just about given up hope that anyone would answer. Nice ascci art too. :-) I am a blacksmith. The term fuller is one that I have always heard used to refer to a particular type of blacksmithing tool. \ / \ / <-Top Fuller \_/ ------\_/-------- _ <-Work piece ------/ \-------- _ / \ / \ <-Bottom Fuller / \ (Fullers are a little more rounded off then my ascci art shows) Obvously, the (blacksmiths) fuller is the tool that would be used to make a (Knife) fuller. Isn't it interesting how words have differant meaning to differant people. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- David Hoopes Exabyte Corp. david@tallgrass.COM 11100 W 82nd St. Voice: (913) 492-6002 x3323 Lenexa, Ks 66214 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!jetson.uh.edu!phys58 Fri Dec 31 22:32:14 EST 1993 Article: 3101 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!jetson.uh.edu!phys58 From: phys58@jetson.uh.edu (Hortvet, Douglas Richard) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Request comments on Use of Drill Press as Vertical Mill Date: 30 Dec 1993 10:59 CST Organization: University of Houston Lines: 21 Distribution: world Message-ID: <30DEC199310592756@jetson.uh.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Hello, As will be apparent from my question(s), I am not a practicing or experienced hobby machinist. Being in the very early stages of a project to scratch build an O scale steam locomotive, I found in a Model Railroader article a discussion on using a drill press for light duty vertical mill work. I would appreciate any comments offered regarding the pros and cons of this practice. In the best of possible worlds, a Bridgeport 2J would certainly fill the bill - but is not cost wise feasible. Specifically, what would be the limitations of depth of cut, mill size, and other relevant parameters when using a drill press for vertical milling? How would these relate to the dimensions of the drill presses' vertical support column? Thanks in advance for your guidance. Doug From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca!sgi1!dryan Fri Dec 31 22:32:14 EST 1993 Article: 3102 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca!sgi1!dryan From: dryan@sgi1.mathstat.uoguelph.ca (Dan Ryan) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Gas fire forge for home ???? Date: 30 Dec 1993 17:53:51 GMT Organization: University of Guelph Lines: 13 Message-ID: <2fv4jf$g37@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: sgi1.mathstat.uoguelph.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Hi.... I am wondering if there are any plans for a simple gas fired forge available via e-mail or ftp??? If not, are there any books with information on how to build a simple gas fired forge??? Any hints would be greatly appreciated... Dan Ryan dryan@sgi1.mathstat.uoguelph.ca From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Fri Dec 31 22:32:15 EST 1993 Article: 3103 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Request comments on Use of Drill Press as Vertical Mill Distribution: world References: <30DEC199310592756@jetson.uh.edu> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 24 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 17:33:31 +0000 Message-ID: <757272811snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <30DEC199310592756@jetson.uh.edu> phys58@jetson.uh.edu "Hortvet, Douglas Richard" writes: > Specifically, what would be the limitations of depth of cut, mill size, and > other relevant parameters when using a drill press for vertical milling? How > would these relate to the dimensions of the drill presses' vertical support > column? It's not the column thats the problem, it's the bearings. Drill presses are designed for an axial load, milling generates large radial loads. Obviously it depends on the design of the drill, but it really isn't a good idea. For making 0 gauge engines, you're not going to damage the drill, but you will notice a lot of play in the cutter that didn't appear serious for drilling but does make a difference now. I presume you have access to a lathe. You'd be much better off doing your milling in that, rather than the drill press. Apart from some limits on workpiece size, lathes make good mills. _ Andy Dingley / ) ' ,_ _, / _ ) _/_ Codesmiths of Newcastle /_ / / / / (_) /_) (_) /_ dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (_) +44 091 230 1695 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!wmu-coyote!Dale Fri Dec 31 22:32:15 EST 1993 Article: 3104 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!wmu-coyote!Dale From: Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Dale Gee) Subject: Re: Gas fire forge for home ???? Message-ID: <1993Dec30.193705.22635@sol.cs.wmich.edu> Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept. References: <2fv4jf$g37@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 19:37:05 GMT Lines: 26 In article <2fv4jf$g37@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca> dryan@sgi1.mathstat.uoguelph.ca (Dan Ryan) writes: >Hi.... > >I am wondering if there are any plans for a simple gas fired forge >available via e-mail or ftp??? > >If not, are there any books with information on how to build a >simple gas fired forge??? > >Any hints would be greatly appreciated... > >Dan Ryan >dryan@sgi1.mathstat.uoguelph.ca > Sure there is. I built a nifty gas forge for aprox $100.00. I used a set of plans put out by ABANA. Give them a ring, I think the phone number is in the FAQ. Happy hammering Dale From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!ncar!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Fri Dec 31 22:32:16 EST 1993 Article: 3105 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!ncar!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Request comments on Use of Drill Press Versus Mill Message-ID: <1993Dec30.141713.1078@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 30 Dec 93 14:17:13 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) References: <30DEC199310592756@jetson.uh.edu> <757272811snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 21 One reason for a milling machine as opposed to a drill press is that a real milling machine comes with well-calibrated dials for X, Y, and Z movements. On a drill press you only have a coarse Z motion, and any X and Y motion is left up to your ingenuity. One solution is to use a vise that has X and/or Y travel built in, but it will hardly be calibrated in thousandths of an inch (or fractions of a millimeter if you are metric). As another person pointed out, radial thrust/flex is another concern. Some milling-machine tools might not fit well in a drill press chuck, if they are designed to fit a mill spidle taper. Milling machine beds have "T" slots designed for attaching work in a fairly standard and flexible manner. This might be a problem on a drill press table, depending on the work and what you have at hand for holding the work. Jim From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!rpi!usenet.elf.com!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Fri Dec 31 22:32:17 EST 1993 Article: 3106 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!rpi!usenet.elf.com!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: WALKERMM@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Jewelers' torches revisited Date: Thu, 30 DEC 93 23:07:18 EST Organization: Delphi Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <931230.83238.WALKERMM@delphi.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com Hi my name is Chris Fuhr Iv'e owned a Jewelers little torch for about 5years only mine runs on ox-celine@ ox the first trick of a Jewelers Torch is to see how little fluid you can run through it. I know that mine gets dirty and that can change the pressure needs, but don't get the idea that I use it as an excuse to disregard the gauges. Instead I clean the tips in an ultrasounic cleaner. Also I preform the trick of running a larger torch in my other hand set low with it heating the underside of the piece. Usually Im working large base pieces with small oriments being sweat soddered to i t. So I'm moreinterested in minimumizing the amount of time that the small piece is exposed to the flame. In closing the best general rule is start at about 3lbs. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Fri Dec 31 22:32:17 EST 1993 Article: 3107 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: WALKERMM@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: silverworking Date: Thu, 30 DEC 93 23:21:26 EST Organization: Delphi Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <931230.84086.WALKERMM@delphi.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com Hi! If this metalworking group is sopposed to be just Iron working then they had better tell me so I can take and start my own group. My name is Chris Fuhr I'm a Silversclpturist. I'm also put off by iron working but mostly because in casting you look at irongrindings as a contamanation, that never realy go away. So I talk with Iron workers, barter with them, and mostly farm out my iron tool needs to them. So lets hear from the little lady and find out what tools she has and what she's into making. I'll tell you about mine if you tell me about yours. Boy dos'nt that sound like it belongs on the alt. sexlife bulletin boards. O yes my appoligies I don't spell very well, nor do I talk with the most diplomacy. I havent even figured out how to get this antecque to Do a pharagraph yet, but I'm a nice guy and brutly honest. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Fri Dec 31 22:32:18 EST 1993 Article: 3108 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: WALKERMM@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: DIY Small Crucible Furnace Date: Thu, 30 DEC 93 23:35:54 EST Organization: Delphi Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <931230.84954.WALKERMM@delphi.com> References: <1993Dec29.123840.16766@hemlock.cray.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com Hi my name is chris fuhr you can reachh me at walkermm's. I own both an Electric melter 100 troy ounce and a no. 16 crucible propane melter. The pro/melter was about a month to three month project and I was lucky tohave several sorces, both for materials and referances. In mine I couldn't find a small enough barrel so i had to use more foundry plaster thatn normal. but it should last longer and hold more heat allowing for short turn arounds on multipule castings. the two biggest things that I needed where a friend who new iron and had a welder so he made the handles and the hindges, and a superior pottery store that rebuilds kilns of all types so I had supplies and choices. Tell me how it gose and what you plan to cast etc... From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Fri Dec 31 22:32:18 EST 1993 Article: 3109 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: WALKERMM@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Fullers in Swords Date: Thu, 30 DEC 93 23:50:33 EST Organization: Delphi Internet Lines: 15 Message-ID: <931230.85833.WALKERMM@delphi.com> References: <203@barney.UUCP> <1993Dec29.162935.10@say.acnatsci.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com Hi, my name is chris Fuhr you can reach me at walkermm's. the first question is how much do you have to do after you heat-treated. Did you do a stress relieving heat-treat before you finished the first grind? the Second question is what kind of blade do you want to make, a wall hanger up to aGallery piece? thrid are youlooking to do this as a way of life and are willing to buy more tools or are you just making this one and may or may not want to do this by hand? Forth nice graffics i'd never have though to make those on the modem. And finaly could you send me you r name, address etc... I'm putting a list together of people who make blades etc... also include your list of tools and experiences. yours a novice cultler and experienced sculpturist. It's my attitude because nobody else wanted it. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail Fri Dec 31 22:32:19 EST 1993 Article: 3110 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: 74220.2330@CompuServe.COM (William Churchill) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Request comments on Use of Drill Pre Date: 31 Dec 1993 01:14:20 -0600 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 5 Sender: daemon@cs.utexas.edu Message-ID: <931231071108_74220.2330_CHL31-1@CompuServe.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu Before attempting to use a drill press as a vertical mill it would be a good idea to check the chuck mounting. Some chucks (mine included) are mounted only on a taper. If any side pressure is applied to one of these chucks it may come off the spindle. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Fri Dec 31 22:32:20 EST 1993 Article: 3111 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: diamond files Date: 31 Dec 1993 16:48:11 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 38 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2g1l4bINN150@lynx.unm.edu> Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: algodones.unm.edu Keywords: diamond files plating |> It certainly looks easy when you see it done. A pal of mine does |> this from time to time with 100% success. He makes the file shape |> in bronze welding rod (easy to work) and then plates that with |> nickel. I think that he said he used Watts solution ( a standard |> electroplaters solution - get it from a tame local plater). OK... I wana' play... I called around and could find no one who would sell me some "Watts solution." But I did however find a chemical company who sells a whole bunch of chemicals for the "Watts plating system." Now the problem is that I have not a clue which of the chemicals I should purchase [and this particular company has a reputation for helping the little guy 8-) at a big price |-( ] and I would prefer not to buy them all just to play. The following is a sublist of their chemicals that looked "interesting": Nickel Acetate Nickel Carbonate Nickel Chloride Dessi Chlorl. 5 (?) Nickel Chloride (dry/liquid) Nickel Sulfate (dry/liquid) Nickel Sulfemate Hard chrome Acid Copper Are there any experienced platers or chemists who could expound upon the different virtues of each of these selections. How about their toxcicity (sp) ? EBo -- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!barrnet.net!parc!richley Fri Dec 31 22:32:20 EST 1993 Article: 3112 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!barrnet.net!parc!richley From: richley@parc.xerox.com (Ed Richley) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: diamond files Date: 31 Dec 1993 17:58:17 GMT Organization: Xerox Palo Alto Research Center Lines: 10 Message-ID: <2g1p7p$59r@news.parc.xerox.com> References: <2g1l4bINN150@lynx.unm.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deneb.parc.xerox.com Keywords: diamond files plating I just read an article in HSM about making diamond tools by pressing diamond dust into copper tools with a ball bearing or other hard steel implement. I think I have some old books from Lindsay's which describe the same process. It's generally the technique used for laps and grinding wheels. Perhaps I missed something, but where does one procure diamond dust? Ed Richley richley@parc.xerox.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!slindsay Fri Dec 31 22:32:21 EST 1993 Article: 3113 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!slindsay From: slindsay@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steve Lindsay) Subject: Dagger1.jpg 1/2 Message-ID: <1993Dec31.204605.8049@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Fri, 31 Dec 93 20:46:05 GMT Lines: 898 This is one of two posts of a stainless dagger engraved with raised 24k gold scroll that I have recently finished. I had started on it during the summer of 93 and would work on it periodically. The blade is ATS 34 stainless and the handle, guard and pommel are of 416 stainless. The inlayed gold was cut out with a jewelers saw from a sheet of about .020 thick. It is 14 1/4 inches long. To decode it: Save the two text files in asicc. Name them DAGGER1.UUE and DAGGER2.UUE. Unencode them with the shareware program UUDECODE.EXE by placing the exe and the two uues files in the same directory and type UUDECODE DAGGER1 This will make a file called DAGGER.JPG. Now with the shareware program called JPG2GIF.EXE type JPG2GIF DAGGER.JPG and this will make DAGGER.GIF Use your favorit gif view to view the file. 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M`X!^UO1UN)=(RU4R!3AX>/9<@?\:7.3&I("(8-8S7==E>YP(E.]IDO*G5F.E M?3:YD)3J(P98+D;D_B`-U7;B\:>**0TRW\*.519>:&&Y;)']X,JB7:L=WI]!:V)/==XK$2;0W"9C@!I!^AYUUN'O]66^#5DV?QI9GY M53>JB6C@I9A=>8,[AW?N&$>3.7_\YE;P$1Y(]JVM>5,'IG4U>X=&J2YL6UB- ME"5M2Q>@=8NP^7?A.&+SRB%+.CA\0Y@P1SX(D(?1&K+49W[Q.K+Z5*#L9F93 M]J'U@BI@F:N:&EN4>I^S*9DA.8%4JD@,8YS]-[,A*61:QZ+7^5SN^7SX9J3] MYET!EY#9"63>V+5# M=7F[#CA!R\ND9:D3"M!MV&13:%65DCN0OXN%ZT9UC*>]E_AFW/A6$-M$76:2 MFL54.I&9NQ5P\)L7?(N&4"NLCTNWR9J1PP0K6WNX"J6SKWABW'>X,?6H00L` MK1ILTZ=Q:S:S\\>]P;FR\_L<^_>.NMK!7?)T$$:72$===#F;+!Q_7XN`Y^IP M$]8_U#:&T!J3!+:`F5@MNBAUXFL4!\"9MH=(0AJV#!=L?;>Z&S57L%5_W4JQ M"6:))`FFF`B@]VD4Y+.HNHF4TH%Y&!9?"#MN!*>4/;EFPCM21JRVPYED\`O` M:V>?X$=MY0>G:M9F*?PD3_RURM:%-_^&@Q+GNT0VP0T5QD!,2PFWGWP9EQLI MNO>+9I>LM9+EL4N;B0:Y@'EXMFUV5[Z6MJ$,74>(9%X&AWV9A2)EA4"68[*X MIGKFNV\35XP;?N&'BR*UQW#;@9FO\&BG5YD7'\C\@% M7A")?LLKI&MHEPITR-*,O>\W>Y.;N'&(([6LB2HXF+XF?D5\ MD]$4G=8;ES<8MH_*'2:YFC_H408*SSZF4DO,LTT4G,-[II;(H-')>Y/BRF[6 M9N6[3PU+3MJ[CU0:17T(F,`&JJ)K=?8UD7H,70Q,MJ@K@7PD;RJ-SYZ(RJJK#UH<"4,PI^GP!$-3YZ+5JRYA:BW<$ M$-2-R9BSK&S&6[5G=[XB[=)T&;YV['2V<\\4&J9XJY=VV9\QRZ(YALI2>H=> M*,U7F&%*.H_^W=_:`/ MW"W>X?W=X-T/_\#=XZW>YFW>Y"W>Z:T/Z8W>WXW>ZDW>[)W>X&W>Z]W=_R#? MZ"W?_XW?\?W?]7W?`;[?]AW?_=T/7.B-Z=?RZJH^Y,I\YZO^ZK`.ZYL. MZZX>ZZJ>VW_^W+:^M_Z(D7TN09%KZSD^B<*>ZXP.YY^[A;7.,)]>.[6"XZ0+0Y,(]ZS3N[5\H`.">ZM@NW;(TW;WNW!*^Y^INZ,4. MS6"([JP^Q(!>?]`VO>U)FCP-?6IMJ?BW[._.>`$_\`/OZOMHY`2_D>X>T_=^ F?17`\'_^S1@>S\*^\'G^M+H.\=8NT#@NI`#/W)@SZRC\A0$!`#L! ` end [ Section: 2/2 File: dagger.jpg Encoder: Wincode v1.4 ] From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!toadflax!milota Fri Dec 31 22:32:22 EST 1993 Article: 3115 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!toadflax!milota From: milota@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (Andre' D. Milota) Subject: strange watch ? Message-ID: Sender: usenet@ucdavis.edu (News Administrator) Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of California, Davis Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1993 20:52:04 GMT Lines: 18 pleas excuse me if Im posting to the wrong board but this seemed the be the most relevant one I could find Im looking for a watch that has a simple mere image face runs backwards and does not cost more then $50.00 I have seen 3 that run backwards for about $30.00 one has a carton of the precedent on it and the outher 2 have goofy a jeweler estimated that a new face would cost $70.00 I have also herd of clocks called barber shop clocks that meet my specks but are too big to weir as watches anay one know of a source ? thanks From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson Fri Dec 31 22:32:23 EST 1993 Article: 3116 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson From: pjackson@netcom.com (Phillip Jackson) Subject: Re: Gas fire forge for home ???? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <2fv4jf$g37@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca> <1993Dec30.193705.22635@sol.cs.wmich.edu> Date: Sat, 1 Jan 1994 01:17:47 GMT Lines: 37 Dale Gee (Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu) wrote: : Sure there is. I built a nifty gas forge for aprox $100.00. I used a set : of plans put out by ABANA. Give them a ring, I think the phone number : is in the FAQ. : Happy hammering : Dale Dale, I also built the ABANA forge and fired it up today for the first time. The plans aren't too specific as what to expect and I lack forge experience. I put a piece of 1/4 X 2 cold rolled steel about 12" long in and started it up at 20 lb pressure. After about 10 minutes the steel had a color that I can only compare to that of an orange popsicle and it never got any brighter. I read about "cherry red" and "Yellow", but not "popsicle". The steel was certainly hotter than anything I have been able do heat with a torch, but I suspect that I should be doing something different. Can you share your experience with me? I am not sure the blower delivers 150 cft per plans but the burner produces a bright blue flame about 4" long. I check email several times a day but this forum not so often. I will pick up either message but would get email more quickly. Phill -- pjackson@netcom.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!jaz0 Fri Dec 31 22:32:23 EST 1993 Article: 3117 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!jaz0 From: jaz0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH A. ZELINSKI) Subject: Little Torch Gas Pressure Message-ID: <1994Jan1.005853.34303@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Date: Sat, 1 Jan 1994 00:58:53 GMT Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 25 Happy New Year to ALL! On Christmas Day, Neil March wrote in asking about gas pressures for various orifice sizes on the Tescom/Smith Little Torch. The literature included with my torch had the following data, in addition to instructions for hose replacement, Flame adjustment and safety tips. TIP | orifice | GAS PRESSURE | CONSUMPTION SIZE | size(") | (P.S.I) | C.F.H. | | O2 FUEL | (each gas) 1 | .003 | 5 5 | .023 2 | .006 | 6 5 | .087 3 | .011 | 6 5 | .215 4 | .020 | 8 6 | 1.625 5 | .029 | 11 8 | 2.540 6 | .037 | 14 9 | 4.000 In addition to these tips, I have also acquired a multi-orifice (rosebud) tip which I operate at the same settings as #6. No consumption data. The settings listed above are apparently appropriate for all of the fuel gasses that the Little Torch was designed for... Acetylene, Hydrogen,Propane, Propylene, & MAPP. Presumably, this would also include APACHE mixture as well. I hope this is helpful. Cheers, and PEACE in '94 for ALL! Joe. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!emilyb Fri Dec 31 22:32:24 EST 1993 Article: 3118 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!emilyb From: emilyb@netcom.com (Emily Breed) Subject: Re: silverworking Message-ID: Organization: None of the above References: Date: Sat, 1 Jan 1994 02:48:52 GMT Lines: 14 In article JimJusten writes: > Im wondering how much of this newsgroup will deal with >!litttle metal! >i.e. jewelry work. My girlfriend is interested, and quite a good >silversmith..but rather frightened by the mere mention of Iron! There's a mailing list set up for jewelry discussion, including lapidary stuff. The admin address is jewelry-request@mishima.MN.ORG. I think it's automated, so try sending a note with just "HELP" in the text. The more resources available, the better, no? Emily Breed emilyb@netcom.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!grian!barry Sat Jan 1 18:47:42 EST 1994 Article: 3119 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!grian!barry From: barry@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Barry Workman) Subject: Lindsay Publications Message-ID: <1994Jan1.033732.12556@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us> Keywords: Forge Lathe Mill how-to Organization: College Park Software, Altadena, CA Date: Sat, 1 Jan 1994 03:37:32 GMT Lines: 16 I've mentioned the Lindsay Publications Catalog. Anyone who has any interest in metalworking, casting, old technology solutions, and in general like neat stuff, get this catalog. The address is: Lindsay Publications, Inc. P.O. Box 538 Bradley, IL 60915 815 935-5353 FAX 815 935-5477 You'll end up spending money on some of these gems. Barry -- - Barry Workman From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Sat Jan 1 18:47:43 EST 1994 Article: 3120 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Gas fire forge for home ???? Date: 1 Jan 1994 07:04:32 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 63 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2g37a0INN61v@lynx.unm.edu> References: <2fv4jf$g37@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca> <1993Dec30.193705.22635@sol.cs.wmich.edu> Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: algodones.unm.edu > I also built the ABANA forge and fired it up today for the first time. The > plans aren't too specific as what to expect and I lack forge experience. > > I put a piece of 1/4 X 2 cold rolled steel about 12" long in and started it > up at 20 lb pressure. After about 10 minutes the steel had a color that I > can only compare to that of an orange popsicle and it never got any > brighter. I read about "cherry red" and "Yellow", but not "popsicle". Hahahah... Kinda' reminds me of them ol' Bombpops that I used to get as a kid. Ya know the stripped ones... Popcicle orange would be somewhere between cherry read and lemon yellow... BTW, that all comes before white which is just before meltdown you will come to know it when you pull the piece out of the forge and it looks like a sparkler... As for the flavor analogy, the only one I can think of is the time a guy I know was experimentin' in the kitchen! Imagine the taste of Green Chili (the hot stuff from Hatch NM) popcycles with the seeds left in. One nible and YOU see stars!!! But seriously folks 8-) I do not have a temp/color chart handy, but as I recall you get a dull red at about 800 F., cherry red at 1400 F., full red at 1600 F., your orange is probably 1800 F. or so, a bright yellow at 2000 F., and a white at 2200+ F., and a meltdown at 2400-2600. Now all of this is subjective and will look different with different kinds of lighting in your work room. There also seems to be a slight difference when working with different material. I remember playing around with forging titanium, aluminium, steels, ... As for getting your metal hotter... I have met the guys that designed the forge that was printed by SWABA. This may actually be the same forge... assuming that is is, you should be able to reach welding temperatures with this forge, but you will have to pamper it a bit: 1) get some extra fire bricks and block up as much of both the front and back openings as possible. 2) drop the feed pressure down to about 6-10 psi. (as I recall). Adjusting the air flow to keep the flame neutral. Play with the flame until you find what your optimum psi/air rates are. IMPORTANT NOTE: do not attempt this with the 2200 F. rated refractory! Use the 2700 F. rated stuff, or use 3000+ F. rated briks. If you do not, you might find yourself replacing your fiber blanket more often than you replace your bed sheats! ... or mabe more often than some people clean Green Chili Popcicles out of there freezer. ;-) EBo -- ps: I come from the school for the spelling impared, and I still have not found a way to import the message header into emacs where I could use ispell to my hearts content... From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm Sat Jan 1 18:47:43 EST 1994 Article: 3121 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nwnexus!neilm From: neilm@halcyon.com (Neil R. Marsh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Little Torch Gas Pressure Date: 31 Dec 1993 22:36:11 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 29 Sender: news@nwfocus.wa.com Message-ID: References: <1994Jan1.005853.34303@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Reply-To: neilm@halcyon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com X-Newsreader: ZipNews Reader/Mailer v0.92v (Beta) Originator: neilm@coho.halcyon.com In article <1994Jan1.005853.34303@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> jaz0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu writes: > > Happy New Year to ALL! [synopsis of my original post deleted] > > TIP | orifice | GAS PRESSURE | CONSUMPTION > SIZE | size(") | (P.S.I) | C.F.H. > | | O2 FUEL | (each gas) > 1 | .003 | 5 5 | .023 > 2 | .006 | 6 5 | .087 > 3 | .011 | 6 5 | .215 > 4 | .020 | 8 6 | 1.625 > 5 | .029 | 11 8 | 2.540 > 6 | .037 | 14 9 | 4.000 Many thanks, Joe. That's exactly what I needed. (I picked the torch up second-hand with only the #5 tip and hoses. No docs, no nuttin' else.) This one gets printed and tacked up on the shop wall. Happy New Year, all! Cheers! Neil -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neil Marsh neilm@halcyon.com -or- quark!neilm@efn.org Chehalis, WA USA My account My PC My opinion From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Sat Jan 1 18:47:44 EST 1994 Article: 3122 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: WALKERMM@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: milling Everdur Date: Sat, 1 Jan 94 13:43:20 EST Organization: Delphi Internet Lines: 12 Message-ID: <940101.49400.WALKERMM@delphi.com> References: <2f78di$2pa@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com hi! my name is Chris fuhr you can reach me thru walkermm's. What arre you making wtih everdur and a sherline? I'm slightly fimular with both, and to myknolege their is no shortcuts other than sub contracting the stuff out. you pass the cost of the cutters on to the customers. The big shops use different cutters possibly because their accounting people want to track each job to eachwear down and of tool costs. As for the Sherline you may be doing something it wasn't designed to take. Or you are making passes so small that it's not worth your time. Signed Chris fuhr Po. box 6143 lynnwood Wa. 98036 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Sat Jan 1 18:47:45 EST 1994 Article: 3123 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: WALKERMM@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Making diamond files Date: Sat, 1 Jan 94 13:57:34 EST Organization: Delphi Internet Lines: 8 Message-ID: <940101.50254.WALKERMM@delphi.com> References: <1993Dec23.024855.8729@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com yes it's expencive considering the glue is the thing that wheres out use lapaditary grit and glue kits designed for recharging lap. wheels. my advice would be to use a fordom instead. Signed Chris fuhr po. 6143 lynnwood Wa. 98036 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Sat Jan 1 18:47:45 EST 1994 Article: 3124 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: WALKERMM@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: finanicing, please read!!! Date: Sat, 1 Jan 94 14:13:29 EST Organization: Delphi Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <940101.51209.WALKERMM@delphi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com Hi, My name is Chris Fuhr. This is probably a private subject or an unpopular subject, but hear goes. Lets start a descussion on different ways to finanice our shops,tool needs,project desigers. Ithink enphase should be given to those Ideas that are not lits start a factory in the bacement. It's not bad it's just that if you can do that your allreaddy their and a lot of us are to bussy to sweet over penny wages to built up from nothing. I presonally would like to find a respectable Bank that would give me a tool loan. I would need to securre the loan with an expencive tool that also has a very low deperecation rate(loan is for said tool) but no bank that I know dose that any more. Iv'e been buying my tools with production bonesses and tax refunds and overtime.I'm open to new Ideas or new twists on old ones. signed Chris Fuhr Po. 6143 Lyynnwood Wa. 98036 Ph. no. (206)-771-2892 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!merlin.caltech.edu!djt Sun Jan 2 11:00:46 EST 1994 Article: 3125 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!merlin.caltech.edu!djt From: djt@merlin.caltech.edu (David Thompson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: RFQ: small blades Date: 1 Jan 1994 19:17 PST Organization: California Institute of Technology Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1JAN199419170377@merlin.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: merlin.caltech.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 I hope that this does not violate the usenet rules of non-commercial use only! I'm not _selling_ anything, but looking to _buy_ a couple of small, handmade blades. Thus this "request for quote" (RFQ). I do a bit of woodworking, and thought it would be neat to make a couple of letter openers (all of you sharp knife purists please don't cringe!) with handmade blades. I am planning on turning the handles out of some rosewood or something (first, I'd like to see if this is feasible!). What I am looking for is about a 4-inch long, symmetric (leaf?) blade which doesn't necessarily need to be razor sharp. It should be no larger than 0.75 inches wide, and have something like a 2" long by approximately 0.25" diam (square or round) tang which I can epoxy into the handle. Material should be stainless steel (if possible, I do not know all the possibilities, but I'd rather it not rust too easily!), or you can make a suggestion. I would prefer a hand-beaten look over a smooth and polished-to-death look. What I need is a rough quote from someone willing to make these blades for me. I do appreciate quality and I am willing to pay a fair market price for this, though $hundreds/blade is out of my league (if this is what I can expect, then someone please educate me)! Preference will be given to the earlier respondees. Further specifications can be worked out via email to save bandwidth. Thanks! Dave Thompson \\\|||/// djt@deimos.caltech.edu \ ^ ^ / < O O > -----------VVVV------- V -------VVVV------------------------ One cannot attain the limit of craftsmanship, And there is no craftsman who acquires his total mastery. - Ptahhotep, c. 2350 B.C. But I can try! - me, 1993 ------------------------------------------------------------ From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 Sun Jan 2 11:00:47 EST 1994 Article: 3126 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 From: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: finanicing, please read!!! Date: 2 Jan 1994 04:28:20 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 34 Message-ID: <2g5ih4$itu@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <940101.51209.WALKERMM@delphi.com> Reply-To: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) NNTP-Posting-Host: eeyore.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, WALKERMM@delphi.com () says: >This is probably a private subject or an unpopular subject, but hear goes. >Lets start a descussion on different ways to finanice our shops,tool >needs,project desigers. >Ithink enphase should be given to those Ideas that are not lits start a factory >in the bacement. >It's not bad it's just that if you can do that your allreaddy their and a lot >of us are to bussy to sweet over penny wages to built up from nothing. >I presonally would like to find a respectable Bank that would give me a tool >loan. >I would need to securre the loan with an expencive tool that also has a very >low deperecation rate(loan is for said tool) but no bank that I know dose that >any more. >Iv'e been buying my tools with production bonesses and tax refunds and >overtime.I'm open to new Ideas or new twists on old ones. >signed >Chris Fuhr >Po. 6143 >Lyynnwood Wa. >98036 >Ph. no. (206)-771-2892 > Is this for real? and I thought my spelling was bad.... -- "Onward through the fog" - Power-Hitter bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu mburlage@heartland.bradley.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ncar!noao!mills Mon Jan 3 07:21:33 EST 1994 Article: 3127 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ncar!noao!mills From: mills@noao.edu (Neill Mills) Subject: any machinist out there Message-ID: <1994Jan2.212100.29125@noao.edu> Sender: news@noao.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: orion.tuc.noao.edu Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA Date: Sun, 2 Jan 1994 21:21:00 GMT Lines: 42 I was very interested to see this News Group, some of us in the shop have been talking about starting up a News Group for machinists. There are 7 of us in this shop of 14 who are currently have Internet access (logons) but not enough experance to start a News Group, so let me know if this works. I work for the National Optical Astronomy Observatories (NOAO, or Kitt Peak to those in the field) along with 13 others in there Instrument Shop. We build, maitain, and work on specific projects involving the telescopes on Kitt Peak. Our shop is primarily a Prototype machine shop with a lot of R & D involved. I am an Instrument Maker (precision machinist) and CNC Programmer, I also teach machine courses at the local college. I work on the GONG project for the National Solar Observatory (NSO). The Instrument Shop here has a number of precision Tree mills, Hardinge toolroom lathes, larger lathes, grinders, Horizonal borring mill, Sipp jig bore, MAHO 1000 CNC, compleat welding shop, and more toys and tooling then you have ever dreamed of. NOAO itself has mirror cutting and grinding facilities, carpenter shop, print shop, photo shop, electronics shop, a lot of computers (small to x-large), and all the astronomers, technicians, scientist, and management you would expect. If you haven't figured it out yet, I do not work in the real world. I use to, but I hope I never have to again. We are looking forward to hearing from you and other profesionals. Neill -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Neill G. Mills | I am not permanently loged on. National Optical Astronomy | I do check for mail 3-4 times a day. Observatories, NSO, GONG | So please forgive me if I do not 950 N. Cherry Av. | reply right away. Thank you. Tucson, AZ, 85726-6732 | (602) 325-9314 | All opinions and delusions are Internet: mills@noao.edu | strictly my own. _____________________________________________________________________________ From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!bluesky!steve Mon Jan 3 07:21:34 EST 1994 Article: 3128 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!psinntp!bluesky!steve From: steve@bluesky.com (Steve Hampson) Subject: Re: Gas fire forge for home ???? Message-ID: <1994Jan3.023201.19758@bluesky.com> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 1994 02:32:01 GMT References: <2fv4jf$g37@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca> <1993Dec30.193705.22635@sol.cs.wmich.edu> Organization: Blue Sky Research Lines: 64 In article pjackson@netcom.com (Phillip Jackson) writes: >Dale Gee (Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu) wrote: >: Sure there is. I built a nifty gas forge for aprox $100.00. I used a set >: of plans put out by ABANA. Give them a ring, I think the phone number >: is in the FAQ. > >: Happy hammering > > >: Dale > >Dale, > >I also built the ABANA forge and fired it up today for the first time. The >plans aren't too specific as what to expect and I lack forge experience. > >I put a piece of 1/4 X 2 cold rolled steel about 12" long in and started it >up at 20 lb pressure. After about 10 minutes the steel had a color that I >can only compare to that of an orange popsicle and it never got any >brighter. I read about "cherry red" and "Yellow", but not "popsicle". > >The steel was certainly hotter than anything I have been able do heat with a >torch, but I suspect that I should be doing something different. > >Can you share your experience with me? >I am not sure the blower delivers 150 cft per plans but the burner produces >a bright blue flame about 4" long. > >I check email several times a day but this forum not so often. I will pick >up either message but would get email more quickly. > >Phill pjackson@netcom.com 20 psi! Is that what the plans call for? My pipe forge runs quite well on 2-4 psi. I discovered that I was using too much pressure at first and could not reach a welding heat. A digital pyrometer helped me set it up correctly. I can reach 2400 F easily for welding. If you don't have access to a pyrometer, perhaps this will help: You will have difficult time if you are judging the temperature in bright light or direct sun light. It is best to work in dim light. The best test is to try hitting it to see if the metal moves easily. To judge a welding heat in a gas forge, make a small L-shaped pointer from a piece of .25" (or smaller) stock. Place the pointer in the forge next to the fluxed work and allow the tip to reach the same temperature as the work. The tapered tip should allow this to happen quickly. Periodically touch the tip to the work piece(s). When the pointer sticks you are ready to weld. The pointer should really stick -- in fact you can easily lift up a light work piece. When everything is set up correctly, you should be able to reach a welding heat on a piece of .5" inch stock in less than a minute. A small 5 gallon propane tank will freeze up in several hours and pressure will drop to unusable levels. To avoid this you can switch to another tank when the pressure drops or use a large 20 gallon tank. Write if you need more help! -- Steve Hampson 503 222 9571 Blue Sky Research 800 622 8398 534 SW 3rd Avenue fax 503 222 1643 Portland, OR 97204 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson Mon Jan 3 07:21:34 EST 1994 Article: 3129 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson From: pjackson@netcom.com (Phillip Jackson) Subject: Re: Gas fire forge for home ???? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <2fv4jf$g37@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca> <1993Dec30.193705.22635@sol.cs.wmich.edu> <2g37a0INN61v@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 1994 07:48:31 GMT Lines: 35 : 1) get some extra fire bricks and block up as much of : both the front and back openings as possible. : 2) drop the feed pressure down to about 6-10 psi. (as : I recall). Adjusting the air flow to keep the flame : neutral. Play with the flame until you find what your : optimum psi/air rates are. : IMPORTANT NOTE: do not attempt this with the 2200 F. : rated refractory! Use the 2700 F. rated stuff, or use : 3000+ F. rated briks. If you do not, you might find : yourself replacing your fiber blanket more often than : you replace your bed sheats! ... or mabe more often than : some people clean Green Chili Popcicles out of there : freezer. ;-) : EBo -- EBo -- Thanks for your reply to my query re the pipe forge. I appreciate the relation between the color and the heat and also you advice re the operating procedure to try. Tomorrow I'll close up most of the front as well as the rear and see where that gets me. Apparently the "popsicle" color is the orange cited in The Avils Edge and is only one heat level below welding heat. Do you know of any source for wrought iron? I understand that it isn't made in the US anymore. Phill -- pjackson@netcom.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson Mon Jan 3 07:21:35 EST 1994 Article: 3130 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!pjackson From: pjackson@netcom.com (Phillip Jackson) Subject: Iron Availability? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Date: Mon, 3 Jan 1994 07:52:56 GMT Lines: 12 Does anyone out there know of a source of wrought iron? I understand it's almost impossible to find in the states. Lacking that, what type of steel would be most suitable to use when I am making an object that does not require hardness or spring. Easy working is more important. I'm using a propane fired gas forge. Phill -- pjackson@netcom.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx10!ghuntres Tue Jan 4 21:32:34 EST 1994 Article: 3132 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx10!ghuntres From: ghuntres@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Gary huntress) Subject: Re: Making O gage live steam engine? Message-ID: <1994Jan3.131927.28131@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: Date: Mon, 3 Jan 94 13:19:27 GMT Lines: 28 dale.eason@stpaul.ncr.com (Dale Eason) writes: >I am interested in leaning how to make a O gage live steam engine. Does >anyone know of any good books or catalogues about it. I have just >subscribed to the Live Steam magazine so I know what is in there. >Does anyone know where I can brouse through back issues of Live Steam in the >The Minneapolis/St Paul area? >Thanks. I'm planning on (someday) building a 7.25" live steam engine myself. I believe it was in this group that someone recommended Power Model Supply Co Rt. 1, Box 177 N.W. Corr. Hwy. 67 & Long Rd. De Soto, M 63020 (314) 586-6466 they have detailed engineering drawings for about 15 different engines and I think they are about $30.00 each. They also carry a lot of bar, rod brass, aluminum, stainless, copper, etc. Lotsa neat stuff. Gary H. Live Steamer in the Making! >dale.eason@.stpaul.ncr.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx10!ghuntres Tue Jan 4 21:32:36 EST 1994 Article: 3133 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx10!ghuntres From: ghuntres@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Gary huntress) Subject: Stupid Question: Threading Message-ID: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Date: Mon, 3 Jan 94 13:20:25 GMT Lines: 18 I've heard dozens of teachers and professors say that "There is no such thing as a stupid question". Well, I'm gonna test that theory right now! I don't really understand the basics of cutting external threads on a lathe. Everything that I've read here about lathe specs implies that lower RPM is better for threading, but I'm also (mis)remembering a rule of thumb that material rates at the cutter should be somwhere between 100-200 feet per minute for typical materials. But considering a 1" rod at 100 RPM, thats about 26 feet per minute. Aren't you hogging off too much material at too low a speed? Threads are cut in one pass aren't they? Gary "a metal working wannabe" Huntress ghuntres@nox.cs.du.edu huntress@npt.nuwc.navy.mil From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Tue Jan 4 21:32:36 EST 1994 Article: 3134 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Experiences with two firms; Sherline CNC conversion Date: 3 Jan 1994 15:22:49 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2g9d89$4rr@oak.oakland.edu> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu A while back I asked if anyone had ordered from Eastern Machine Tools. No one responded, so I went ahead and placed a small order for some inexpensive Enco imported bits and pieces- a bench block, a pair of 123 blocks and similar stuff. Ordering was a bit tricky as I was shinted from one person to another; they don't seem well set up to do individual (non-commercia) orders, but they are certainly friendly and happy to take these orders, and their ad in HSM suggests. The stuff arrived about a week later, and was complete. Given that they discount a lot of items- including Sherline- they do look like a promising source. I also ordered a used Sherline lathe from Cardinal Engineering. They were very nice to deal with a very helpful. I sent them a personal check, and they sent the lathe the day the check arrived. Very trusting. Cardinal mainly sells CNC equipment and software, metal and plans (the Wood-Met plans and the Gingery books as well as others) but usually has a list of used trade-in gear as well. Oh, about that used Sherline: It was used in some vocational ed program as a CNC training tool, and so has a pair of stepper motors attached, though it can still be used manually. As is typical with school machinery, it has been abused, but not heavily used. That is, you'll find a lot of dents and scratches on school machinery from the inexperience and carelessness of students, but generally there's very little wear as compared to a lathe used in a production environment. Anyhow, I'm probably going to decomission the CNC part, which includes the aforementioned stepper and one or two custom screws. (I haven't disassembled far enough to see if the leadscrew is a custom job, or is simply coupled to the stepper. The transverse screw is definitely a custom job). They may be offered for sale, so if you have a Sherline lathe or mill and were thinking of doing a CNC conversion, I can get you started cheap... --mike From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!gatekeeper.es.dupont.com!esds01.es.dupont.com!SHEARER@esvx12.es.dupont.com Tue Jan 4 21:32:37 EST 1994 Article: 3135 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!gatekeeper.es.dupont.com!esds01.es.dupont.com!SHEARER@esvx12.es.dupont.com From: shearer@esvx12.es.dupont.com (Stephen Shearer) Subject: Re: Little Torch Gas Pressure Message-ID: <1994Jan3.163743.12977@es.dupont.com> Sender: news@es.dupont.com (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: esvx12.es.dupont.com Reply-To: shearer@esvx12.es.dupont.com Organization: DuPont (Opinions are those of the writer only) References: <1994Jan1.005853.34303@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 1994 16:37:43 GMT Lines: 47 In article <1994Jan1.005853.34303@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, jaz0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH A. ZELINSKI) writes: > Happy New Year to ALL! > On Christmas Day, Neil March wrote in asking about gas pressures for > various orifice sizes on the Tescom/Smith Little Torch. The literature > included with my torch had the following data, in addition to instructions > for hose replacement, Flame adjustment and safety tips. > > TIP | orifice | GAS PRESSURE | CONSUMPTION > SIZE | size(") | (P.S.I) | C.F.H. > | | O2 FUEL | (each gas) > 1 | .003 | 5 5 | .023 > 2 | .006 | 6 5 | .087 > 3 | .011 | 6 5 | .215 > 4 | .020 | 8 6 | 1.625 > 5 | .029 | 11 8 | 2.540 > 6 | .037 | 14 9 | 4.000 > > In addition to these tips, I have also acquired a multi-orifice (rosebud) > tip which I operate at the same settings as #6. No consumption data. The > settings listed above are apparently appropriate for all of the fuel gasses > that the Little Torch was designed for... Acetylene, Hydrogen,Propane, > Propylene, & MAPP. Presumably, this would also include APACHE mixture as > well. I hope this is helpful. > > Cheers, and PEACE in '94 for ALL! > Joe. To add a few more notes on the subject, I should add I don't have the torch, just dreams... It is made by: Tescom Corp / Smith Equipment Div 2601 Lockheed Ave Watertown, SD 57201 (605) 662-3200 (800) 328-3363 (605) 882-2100 FAX I pulled up the calalog on the microfilm system at work, much more options are shown then I have seen in any catalogs (Cole-Parmer or Paul H. Gesswein & Co). In the "tips" section, size 1 and 2 are for O2 and (acetylene or hydrogen only) and show O2/fuel at 2 psi. Tip 3 and 4 are at 4 psi, tip 5 and 6 are at 6 psi, and tip 7 at 8 psi. Tips 3-7 can be used with O2/(acetylene, hydrogen, MAPP, propane, propylene). Other tips are avaiable for compressed air/fuel mix and atmospheric air/acetylene mix, too. BTW: Gesswein shows a $75 price for the torch/hoses... Steve From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!mmm.mmm.com!schwartz Tue Jan 4 21:32:38 EST 1994 Article: 3136 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!mmm.mmm.com!schwartz From: Gregory P. Widin Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.2 Message-ID: <1994Jan3.183052.23594@mmm.mmm.com> X-XXMessage-ID: Sender: schwartz@mmm.mmm.com (William H. Schwartz) Organization: 3M References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 94 18:30:52 GMT X-XXDate: Mon, 3 Jan 94 18:31:04 GMT Lines: 25 Stupid Question: Threading In article <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Gary huntress, ghuntres@nyx10.cs.du.edu writes: > Aren't you hogging off too much material at too >low a speed? Threads are cut in one pass aren't they? I routinely cut threads, when they are short or up to a shoulder, using a HAND-crank that fits in the lathe mandrel--it doesn't get much slower than this. The finish is quite good if the tool is sharp and I use a good cutting lubricant. Threads are emphatically _not_ cut on one pass, at least on my lathe. In fact, it's often appropriate to take a second pass at no additional infeed in order to work out spring in the workpiece, especially if it's slender and/or cut without tailstock support. Greg From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Tue Jan 4 21:32:38 EST 1994 Article: 3137 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Gas fire forge for home ???? Date: 3 Jan 1994 19:58:14 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2g9tcmINNg15@lynx.unm.edu> References: <2fv4jf$g37@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca> <1993Dec30.193705.22635@sol.cs.wmich.edu> <2g37a0INN61v@lynx.unm.edu> Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: golondrinas.unm.edu > Do you know of any source for wrought iron? I understand that it isn't > made in the US anymore. not over the counter (one man's drugs is another... 8-) The only foundry that I had herd of that still makes it is out of Sweeden (so I'm told). But I'm really not sure that that is so. Most people just use "mild steel" 1018 - 1020. EBo -- ------------------------------------------------------ "I don't use drugs, my dreams are frightening enough." -- M.C.Escher From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Tue Jan 4 21:32:39 EST 1994 Article: 3138 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: looking for surface plate Date: 3 Jan 1994 20:27:51 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 10 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2g9v47INNg15@lynx.unm.edu> Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: golondrinas.unm.edu Keywords: surface plate a few weeks back someone posted that they had some old surface plates to sell ... Well I was just talking to someone who needed one or two BIG ones, so could the original poster please send their addresses via email so that we could discuss options... EBo -- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Tue Jan 4 21:32:39 EST 1994 Article: 3139 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 0 of 4 Message-ID: <1994Jan3.163120.1085@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 3 Jan 94 16:31:20 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 0: Introduction to this month's FAQ Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Jan 94 16:31:21 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 15 I am about to post the latest revision to the FAQ. Let me know if this needs to get split into more parts, e.g. due to news system limitations on item size. Changes: Corrected phone numbers for Small Parts Inc. Put back #8-11! Keep the suggestions coming in! Jim Kirkpatrick jimkirk@uwyo.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Tue Jan 4 21:32:40 EST 1994 Article: 3140 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 1 of 4 Message-ID: <1994Jan3.163130.1086@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 3 Jan 94 16:31:30 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 1 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Jan 94 16:31:30 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 747 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 1 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. The following is the original rec.crafts.metalworking charter, for reference. Charter ------- Charter -- REC.CRAFTS.METALWORKING The USENET newsgroup, rec.crafts.metalworking, is a newsgroup which discusses various aspects of working with metal, such as (but not limited to): machining, as on a lathe, milling machine, grinder, etc.; numerical control of such machines; welding, whether by gas, arc, mig, tig, thermite, or other methods; Metal joining, whether welding, brazing, soldering, riveting, screwing, folding, etc. (this section was added during the discussion) casting various metals by various methods; hardening/tempering various metals; blacksmithing/forging; spinning and hammer work; sheet metal work; jewelry-making; purchasing and/or reconditioning metalworking tools and machinery; interesting projects; books on metal technologies and history; Example areas of interest: knife/sword making; automotive repair; steam engine (model/scale, though full-sized discussions are welcome!); art work, such as bronze castings and sculptures; gunsmithing; toolmaking, such as for woodworking, further metalworking, etc.; While the bulk of the discussion will probably be directed towards small-scale "home" shops, industrial/production discussions are also quite welcome. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. If you have access to Bitnet and are interested in clocks/watches, there is a CLOCKS list. Send mail to LISTSERV@SUVM on Bitnet, containing the command "SUBSCRIBE CLOCKS your name". Their "charter" is: Welcome to the CLOCKS Listserv list. This is a new attempt at communicating information about clocks between those interested in ANY aspect of clocks. To quote from the header text for CLOCKS: > * Clock/Watch Repair, Collecting, and Construction > > CLOCKS is a discussion list dealing with any and all aspects of > clock and watch work. > > The list's primary goal is to discuss the collecting, > construction, and repair of both clocks and watches. Included > also are topics on the history of time keeping, wooden movements, > water clocks, antique and modern clocks, etc. Of great interest > is information about suppliers of repair and construction parts > and techniques, information, books, newsletters, national and > local associations. Another interest is the use of clock/watch > tools, such as the watchmakers lathe, bushing replacement, time > regulation, etc. > > The list welcomes the participation and contribution from anyone > interested in the subject area, whether an amateur, beginner, or > professional. I can't give you a cookbook approach on how to get to Bitnet if you aren't on it. This varies from site to site, so you should ask your system administrator "how do I get e-mail to/from Bitnet?" As one example, at our Internet site, we add ".bitnet" on the end, so for us the address would be LISTSERV@SUVM.BITNET. There is also a Usenet newsgroup rec.woodworking that may be of interest to people who read rec.crafts.metalworking. 3. What are some good books on metalworking? - How to Run a Lathe South Bend Lathe 400 W. Sample Street South Bend, IN 46623 This book is available from South Bend distributors, such as Blue Ridge, and/or Lindsay. It was originally printed in 1914 and last updated in 1966, I believe. - Machine-Tool Work, by William P Turner and Halsey F Owen. 1932 and 1945 (hence no ISBN number). Some libraries may still have a copy, though you're probably out of luck for a purchase. Moderately good text, very good diagrams and pictures, especially of huge special-purpose machines like railroad wheel grinders. Suffers a bit from age, and seems intended for large industrial shops, but a good read if you find it. - Machine Shop Theory and Practice, by Albert M Wagener and Harlan R Arthur. 1941 (hence no ISBN number). Some libraries may still have a copy, though you're probably out of luck for a purchase. Fairly good text, more specific techniques than the Turner/Owen book. Suffers a bit from age, but still a nice instructional book. - Lathe Operations, by Richard R. Kibbe. 1985, ISBN 0-471-89023-5. Adapted from materials originally prepared by the Engineering Industry Training Board of Great Britain. Also in the same series: Milling Machine Operations, and Grinding Machine Operations. A step-by-step text with about 2 photos and lots of simple but usually-clear drawings. Shows how to do most any common lathe operation (and a few uncommon ones) in as few words as possible. Check page 90 for what seems to be a man with two right hands. - The Making of Tools, by Alexander G Weygers Prentice Hall Press, 1973, ISBN 0-671-60924-6 A modern book about doing things the old way. How the artist/craftsperson can design, make, sharpen and temper tools. May be available from Centaur Forge. - Machinery's Handbook A standard reference book for machinists, available from most distributors of machines or tools. - Clockmaking & Modelmaking; tools and techniques by W.R. Smith Mr. Smith has published other books on clockmaking, but this one covers more than just clocks, and is thus of interest to more than just clock-makers. This is a collection of articles from the British Horological Journal, Timecraft, Model Engineer, and Horological Times. The articles have been updated and expanded for inclusion in this 112-page coil-bound book. For a complete review, see HSM Jan/Feb 1992, page 14. Available from Gateway Clocks (see names/addresses section), $27 post-paid within USA (overseas buyers add $5 for postage). - Elmer's Engines, by Elmer Verberg available from Modeltec Has many very nice, and fairly easy to build stationary steam engines. - Model Locomotive and Marine Boilers [Argus Press, 1988, ISBN 0-85242-923-1] by Martin Evans (well known in the Model Engineering field, at least in Great Britain) - THE MACHINIST's BEDSIDE READER Guy Lautard 2570 Rosebery Avenue West Vancouver, B.C., Canada V7V 2Z9 (Guy's books are also available from other suppliers, such as Village Press, I believe. J.K.) Contains: Working drawings and detailed instructions for making 15 useful and practical machinists tools and lathe accessories; dozens of hints, tips and tricks to help get things done faster, easier and better in your shop; a collection of 2 dozen machine shop anecdotes; 2 highly readable machinists short stories. Projects include: a sharpening jig for drill from 1/8 to #60, a swiveling base for a 2" Wilton vise, a graduated handwheel for the lathe leadscrew.........and many more THE MACHINIST"S SECOND BEDSIDE READER Similar in format to the first book; projects include: a small pantograph engraving machine, a tool maker's block, poor man's jig borer and a kerosene-burning blowtorch....... also a short story titled "The Bullseye Mixture" which details the method for barbon pack color casehardening. Other books and plans by Lautard (not a complete list): "Hey Tim, I gotta tell ya....' a mini Bedside Reader" "A Brief treatise on Oiling Machine Tools" "3.75' Diameter Ungeared Rotary Table" "Universal Sleeve Clamp" Lautard's targeted readership seems to be the home machinst. I'm sure that much of what he has to say may be "old hat" to a skilled machinist with many years experience. I confess that I am a rank amateur in machine shop practice (my only professional experience was as a part-time helper in a gunsmith shop where the machine I got to know best was the polishing wheel). The flyer I quote from is available from Lautard at the address I gave with my last posting. [reviews and typing courtesy of Michael Gordon] It has also been reported that Guy sells an index of some sort, either of all projects or all articles, in the back issues of Model Engineer. However, the index is reportedly hard to use. See the description of Model Engineer, elsewhere. - The Surface Treatment and Finishing of Aluminum and its Alloys, Edited by S. Wernick, R. Pinner, and P.G. Sheasby. Published 1987 by ASM International, Metals Park, Ohio. 2 volumes. Mentioned in sci.materials in response to a "how do I anodize aluminum" question. - Electroplating for the Amateur, by L. Warburton. Model & Allied Publications Available via Argus (see names & addresses section) Also mentioned, in rec.crafts.metalworking, regarding anodizing. - Machine Tool Practices, fourth edition, John Wiley and Sons. Covers a lot of ground and is the first-year book at DeAnza College. -------------------------------------------------------------------- The following suggested books pertain to jewelry-making, per Sherry Lem. The Complete Metalsmith Tim McCreight Davis Publications, Inc. Worcester, MA, 1991 Excellent, easy to follow techniques for beginning to intermediate levels, this is the revised edition which is much improved over the original. Contemporary Jewelry Philip Morton Holt, Rinehart & Winston NY, 1970, 1976 Interesting design philosophy, techniques. Design and Creation of Jewelry Robert vonNeumann Chilton Radnor, PA, 1961, 1972 Form Emphasis for Metalsmiths Heikki Seppa Kent State University Press Kent, OH 1978 Perhaps THE book on anticlastic raising/forming, though difficult to teach yourself from the pictures and instructions. Jewelry Concepts and Technology Oppi Untracht Doubleday & Company Garden City, NY, 1982, 1985 Most comprehensive guide on jewelry making techniques, also contains gemological data, info on setting up a workshop . Jewelry: Contemporary Design and Technique Chuck Evans Davis Publications Worcester, MA, 1983 Especially good sections on mixed metals (mokume gane, etc.). Jewelry Making and Design Augustus F. Rose and Antonio Cirino Dover Publications, Inc. NY, 1949, 1967 Decidedly English flavor, very inexpensively priced. Jewelry Making Manual Sylvia Wicks Brymorgen Press Cape Elizabeth, ME, 1986 Beautiful color photos, good technique instructions. Jewelry Manufacture and Repair Charles Jarvis Bonanza, NY, 1978 Metal Sculpture - New Forms New Techniques John Lynch The Viking Press NY, NY Basic art metal techniques. Metal Techniques for Craftsmen Oppi Untracht Doubleday & Company Garden City, NY, 1968 -------------------------------------------------------------------- How about video tapes? - New Life Video Productions P.O. Box 175 Traverse City, MI 49685 Several tapes with Rudy Kouhoupt, frequent author in HSM and other magazines. Titles such as "Fundamentals of Machine Lathe Operation," "How to Cut Spur Gears," "How to Cut Threads" and others. Price varies from tape to tape. Production qualities seem poor (based on viewing the first title), such as poor and inconsistent audio, including a radio playing in the background. But you can safely ignore this and concentrate on what Rudy is trying to show you. Seems reasonably priced for the material covered. - Baily Craftsman Supply P.O. Box 276, Dept HSM Fulton, MO 65251 One tape so far, "Greensand Casting Techniques" from David Gingery's workshop. HSM seemed to like it. - Colonial Williamsburg (sorry, no address at this moment) CW produces several tapes on blacksmithing, silversmithing, gunsmithing, and so on. They show the "old time" way of doing things, but are reported to be excellent. 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? Who makes good cars? This is almost purely a personal preference, though in general the imported machines (Grizzly, Jet, Enco) seem to rate lower than US-built machines (South Bend, Bridgeport). However, the imports are usually MUCH less expensive, offsetting some of the quality issues for home shops. It has also been reported that South Bend has been going "downhill" lately. There is some indication that Grizzly equipment is slightly better than other "Taiwanese" machines. One of the main complaints about Taiwanese machinery is the lack of replacement parts and service. Grizzly claims that they keep a supply of parts on hand for all their machines. The same factories appear to turn out Grizzly, Jet, Delta, and the "no-name" machinery. A few years ago Fine Woodworking magazine published an article on this subject. Unimats are sometimes considered "toys" rather than real machines, though they may do just what you want if you don't push them hard. The Unimat PC may be a nice small CNC lathe; any experiences? Unimat, Sherline, and Taig are "micro lathes" in that the swing over the bed is less than 5 inches, and the bed is about a foot long. Sherline and Taig are made in the US, and Unimat is made in Austria (and hence uses metric threads, e.g. in the spindle thread, which may be a pain to US buyers). Sherline and Taig both use 3/4 inch x 16 threads in the spindle and can thus interchange accessories. The Taig cannot cut threads, while the Sherline and Unimat can (with accessories). Sherline and Unimat sell a milling add-on. The Taigs come in unbundled kit form where you have to buy everything; they claim an overall accuracy of .0004 inch and have excellent parts and service, and also sell a watchmaking headstock. Taig is the cheapest at about $250 to get started, about $450 for Sherline. It appears the only Unimat now being sold is the CNC "Unimat PC", at about $750. Unimat seems to charge quite a bit more than normal for accessories. Just keep in mind that these are not as rigid or powerful as full-sized lathes. Harbor Freight sells a "precision 4x10" mini-lathe for around $700 with autofeed, change gears for most english threads at extra cost. It is actually a 7" lathe which takes standard 2MT tailstock tooling and 3/8" cutting tools, and has Electronic Variable Speed (EVS) instead of changeable belts. This is larger and sturdier than the Unimat/Sherline/Taig, and sounds similar to the 8" Grizzly except for the EVS. What can you do if you have little money? Aside from looking at used equipment, you can actually build a lathe and other machine tools. Dave Gingery wrote an excellent series of books on building your own machine tools with just hand tools. While it's a lot of work, you can learn a lot. First you make an aluminum charcoal foundry, then a lathe, and finish up with a dividing head (five or six books later). Other authors have published detailed plans for making lathes. See the publisher's catalogs from Lindsay, Cole's, Power Model, Tee, and Argus. 5. Where do I buy a machine? Check out the Yellow Pages, the ads in the magazines, and catalogs from the "names and addresses" section elsewhere in this FAQ. For example: Blue Ridge Machinery and Tools, Inc Alley Supply Company Enco Grizzly 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? - The Home Shop Machinist (HSM), "dedicated to precision metalworking" Published 6/year by Village Press (see addresses section), $24.50/year. Note that many back issues are not available, though most of the projects are available in the "Projects" book series. Mostly techniques, no steam, some gasoline engine projects, many tooling projects. Probably the best of the US magazines. Some projects will span several issues. - Projects In Metal (PIM). Published 6 times per year by Village Press, $19. Only projects, no advertisements! Each project is complete in one issue. A "weak sister" to HSM, apparently started in part to handle overflow projects from HSM. Earlier back-issues have been combined into a new book series called "Metalworking". - Live Steam Magazine. Published 6 times per year by Village Press, $31. Mostly trains, some techniques, some stationary engines, lots of history and club information. Usually each issue has one stationary engine and two locomotive construction projects in various stages. - Model Engineer's Workshop Published bimonthly by Argus Described as the British version of HSM, and similar to the tool-oriented writing in Model Engineer. U.S. subscription rate is $38. More "packed" than HSM, and features the uniquely English way of doing machining (e.g., spending hours to make a cutter to make the cutter for gear cutting, when many of us in the US would just order the gear cutter and be done with it). - Modeltec. "Machinist Projects of Beauty and Usefulness" Published by George R. Broad, 12 per year. P.O. Box 1226 St. Cloud, MN 56302 Phone: (612) 654-0815 $31 per year ($38 in U.S. funds if outside U.S) Similar to Live Steam but not restricted to trains. Lots of projects for railroad cars. - Strictly IC (IC stands for Internal Combustion) Published 6 times per year $24.25 (+$2.00 US foreign, WA residents add $2.00 sales tax) Robert A. Washburn, editor 24920 43rd Avenue S. Kent, WA 98032 Concentrates on construction of miniature internal combustion engines, and has a few classified ads, usually for engine castings. - Gas Engine Magazine P.O. Box 328 Lancaster, PA 17603 (717) 392-0733, (717) 392-1341 (FAX) - Model Engineer Published biweekly, about $80/year Argus Specialist Publications Ltd. The king of model machining magazines it has been around for about 100 years. Varied construction articles, lots on trains. Some projects can take years to complete! Extensive back-issues are available from Tee (q.v.), and we presume from Argus since they publish it in the first place! An index to back issues is available from: G.V. Wilkinson 129 Springside Road Hillcrest 3610 South Africa The index used to cost 30 pounds sterling, and is reportedly much better than Guy Lautard's. - Engineering in Miniature Published monthly, about $30/year. Tee Publishing Similar to Model Engineer, more steam traction engines. Has an extensive collection of back issues of this and other model magazines. - Clockmaker Published 6 times per year, around $30/year Tee Publishing Discusses how to build mechanical clocks, with many projects spanning several issues. Big names like John Wilding write in this magazine. Classified ads for clockmaking supplies. - Workshop Masters Published by Tee, ceased regular publication in 1991. - Horn & Whistle Richard Weisenberher 2655 North Friendship, Lot #8 Paducah, Kentucky 42001 $18 per year. Low budget, in that they publish anything people send in. Some technology, some nostalgia, lots of stuff on meets where they get together and have "steam blasts." - Traction Engine Magazine - The Anvil's Ring This is the publication of ABANA (see below, associations) published 6 times a year; cost is $24 per year, or you get it as part of the $35 dues for joining ABANA. - Anvil Published monthly, about $30 per year See Centaur Forge, elsewhere. - American Craft (bi-monthly) (jewelry) published by the American Craft Council 40 West 53rd St. New York, NY 10019 (212)956-3535 Current work in metal, clay, glass, wood, textiles, mixed media; featured artists, calendar of events. - Metalsmith (quarterly) (jewelry) published by Society of North American Goldsmiths (SNAG) 5009 Londonderry Drive Tampa, FL 33647 (813)977-5326, (813)977-8462 fax Jewelry, techniques, featured artists, current exhibits - Ornament (quarterly) P.O. Box 2349 San Marcos, CA 92079 Jewelry (metal and beads) and textile/fiber art 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? This depends on several factors, mostly where you live. Good places to check out include community colleges (universities sometimes will have classes in metalworking, but perhaps only for already-enrolled students or faculty/staff). Sometimes a high school will offer night or weekend classes to the public, funding permitting. Also look for vocational/technical schools, and possibly even art schools since some metal sculpturing requires a firm background in welding. In a few cases there may be specialized schools in your area, so check your yellow pages or ask around. Some examples: John C. Campbell Folk School in Brasstown NC (800) 562-2440, Craft Center in Ripley WV. Some schools also offer room and board and/or campground hookups. 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? The Yellow Pages are often a good place to start. Also, the advertisements in magazines like Home Shop Machinist. Another way is to go find your nearest junk yard and/or metal recycling business and scrounge around. Make friends with a machinist at the nearest mining operation and ask for their throwaway "scraps". Order from a supply company (see ads in the magazines, and/or the "names and addresses" section elsewhere in this FAQ). Sometimes you can discover a creative re-use. For example, buy a few old aluminum automotive pistons, perhaps from your junk yard or a garage that rebuilds engines. Cut off the top and clean it up on your lathe. Now you have a nice round blank to start some project with. Similar discoveries should be posted to the newsgroup! Some of the magazines have ads for small "garage" shops that produce specialized castings. 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? Many of the places that sell equipment also sell tools but there are also outlets that only sell accessories such as lathe bits, drills, taps, and so on. Scan the "names and addresses" section elsewhere in this FAQ. 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? ABANA - Artist Blacksmiths Association of North America PO Box 1181 Nashville, Indiana 47448 (812) 988-6919 Dues are $35 per year, which also includes their publication "The Anvil's Ring" (see earlier, magazines) 11. How do I harden/temper metal? This is a *huge* subject, and depends on the metal, and intended use. Most of the time, this question is asked regarding steel, so we'll give a brief description of that, based on an article in Home Shop Machinist (Sept/Oct 1991, "Heat Treating Basics" by Steve Acker). [Also thanks to Steve Gaudio (?) for his post of 18-Sep-1992, and clarification by Tim Eisele] Iron will, at common temperatures, organize itself into an atomic structure that is called "body centered cubic." This consists of overlapping cubes with an atom at each corner, and one more in the center of the cube. But above roughly 1400 degrees F there is a change in structure to "face centered cubic" and the central atoms migrate to the faces of the cubes. This latter form is not magnetic. Steel is basically iron with some carbon mixed in though modern alloys have various other metals and substances as well. When steel is heated to the critical temperature (about 1400 degrees F), the iron will change to face centered, and the carbon atoms will migrate into the central position formerly occupied by an iron atom. This form of red-hot steel is called austentite. Since it is not magnetic, a magnet may be used to determine when the critical temperature has been reached (though the magnetism may be lost before the transition, so this is only approximate). Complete migration of the carbon atoms may take a minute or two. If you let this cool slowly, the iron atoms migrate back into the cube and force the carbon back out, resulting in soft steel called pearlite. If the sample was formerly hard, this softening process is called annealing. If you cool (quench) the sample suddenly by immersing it in oil or water, the carbon atoms are trapped, and the result is a very hard, brittle steel. Too brittle for most uses. The structure is now a body centered tetragonal form called martensite. So, the next step is to heat it back up, to between 200 and 800 degrees F or so, depending on the desired end hardness. This allows some of the hardness to relieved and is called tempering. The amount of tempering that is desirable depends on the final use. Cutting tools are very hard, knife blades less so because they must flex under use rather than break. Tempering is a trade-off between hardness and flexibility. Accurately measuring the tempering temperature is important. A nice, expensive thermostatically-controlled oven is great. Or, some special compounds can be applied that melt or change color at the right temp, such as Tempilstik and Tempilaq. If the steel is clean to start with, then you may notice that it goes through certain color changes as it heats up, with understandably vague descriptions such as "light straw" indicating about 440 degrees F, and purple=520. These colors are not incandescence colors, but are viewed in normal room light. The colors are due to types of surface oxidation that are temperature dependent. When quenching, it is often very important to avoid stirring a part because this will cool one side much more quickly than the other, and might cause warping. For knife blades, as an example, move it strictly up and down during the quench. Case hardening is a bit trickier, and involves heating the object in some sort of agent that promotes hardening at the surface. Liquid cyanide works well but should be out of the question for the home machinist. Luckily there are substitutes available from suppliers, one being called Kasenit, for example. Note that hardness is often measured using a "Rockwell C" scale, with 63 being very hard and 35 being fairly soft. A type of steel called "drill rod" is especially useful for home/hobby use. As its name implies, it is the type of steel used for drills, and is available is round or square form (square drills?). Drill rod is also very useful around the shop because it is usually made to very accurate dimensions. Some types of drill rod are formulated for hardening via heating then quenching in oil, while others are quenched in water. The difference is that water will cool more quickly because it's a good conductor (though it may also form a steam "jacket" that moderates this effect), while oil will cool more slowly. Since rapid cooling may warp a part, this could make a difference in the final product. There is also an "air hardening" steel, though it seems to be quite a bit more expensive than other steels. It has been reported, by way of example, that you can make springs out of hacksaw blades by annealing, bending, hardening, then tempering by heating to a "metallic blue" and quenching in oil. I suspect lots of experimenting may be in order before you get things just right. Remember the steel must be clean (no paint etc.) to see the colors. Quenching in oil may be a fire hazard. Take proper precautions, such as removing flammable materials from the area, wear proper clothing, and have an extinguisher handy. Even quenching in water presents the risk of scalding from steam or splattered water. As one newsgroup reader pointed out, not only are there a gerbillion alloys, but zillions of treatments to choose from, and this is just for steels. Other metals, like brass, can be hardened by "working" the metal, by bending, hammering, peening, etc. Brass is usually annealed with a quench, which is the opposite of steel. It's best to carefully research your particular project first, especially if it's something that is valuable. A recent book, "Simplified Tool Steel Heat Treatment and Selection Guide" by Bill Bryson, may be of some help. Anyone read it yet? $31.95 from Bill Bryson, Dept. HSM, RR 1, Box 4243, Union, NH 03887. Power Model Supply recently (December 1992) listed two small heat treating ovens in an HSM ad. 2000 degrees F, 4x4x4 inch $330, 6x6x6 $435. Write them for more info or see the ad. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Tue Jan 4 21:32:42 EST 1994 Article: 3141 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 2 of 4 Message-ID: <1994Jan3.163141.1087@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 3 Jan 94 16:31:41 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 2 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Jan 94 16:31:42 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 557 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 2 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12. How do I wire up this strange motor? (with thanks to Bill Brown) The following describes how to deal with an AC/DC "universal" motor that has 4 unmarked wires coming out. Be sure you don't have some other motor, such as a 3-phase unit. Other motors are covered in an FAQ for the newsgroup rec.woodworking. The FAQ postings (six of them) for rec.woodworking are normally posted around the first of each month, and possibly also posted to the newsgroup news.answers. I can't say how long *your* news system will choose to keep these around! Look for "Frequently Asked Questions about Electric Motors." Also, the "Electrical Wiring FAQ" may be of interest. The universal motor is called that because it can run on AC or DC. Older units might have been designed this way because very early power distribution had not settled on AC or DC, or with 50 or 60 cycles. Thus, such a motor could be used universally, in all locations provided the voltage was within reason. This still may be a concern with some on-site jobs feeding power tools from DC sources such as portable welding rigs. Another nice thing about these motors is that they are easily reversible. They are also easily speed-controlled, such as in hand drills, whereas induction motors prefer to run at or near synchronous speed. The first task is to determine which two wires go to the armature, and which go to the field winding. If you can't tell by examining where the wires go (or the nameplate), get an ohmmeter and connect it to the wires until you find two that show some continuity. Rotate the shaft slowly by hand and note if the resistance changes as you turn it. If it does, you probably have the armature, and the fluctuations are due to the brushes making and breaking contact with the commutator. The other winding (field coil) should show a steady resistance. Presuming you want the ability to reverse the motor, find a switch that can handle the rated current, in the double-pole-double-throw configuration with a center-off position. The suggested hook-up is (as usual, a bad ASCII graphic): +-------------------+ 1 | | 2 ----------FIELD-------o<--O o A 0 white \ / R \ / M V X A O / \ T L black / \ U T ----------------------o<--O o E S | | +-------------------+ NOTE: no connection at "X"; Include a green-wire frame ground if at all possible Avoid reversing the motor while it is moving in the "other" direction as this could severely stress the switch and motor (particularly the brushes). Move the switch to the center (off) position, and continue on to the other direction after the motor has stopped. Please, always be careful when dealing with electricity. If you don't feel comfortable and safe doing such a hook-up, find someone who can do it for you, or at least who can check what you're doing. 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? The following suggestions were offered by Stu Friedberg -- Get the catalogs and know what you want. There are often many sizes, models, and sources of an "X", so you need to know which particular X when you write and especially when you call to place an order. Even the smallest industrial supply houses deal in tens of thousands of items, which means even very knowledgeable order-takers can't always give you the information you need over the phone. Reserve queries about details for stuff that you couldn't figure out for yourself. Many of the order takers are very helpful and knowledgeable. At *SOME* sources the order takers can actually go look in the stock bins, take a micrometer to measure a shaft diameter, etc. I have had people at three different companies do something like this for me. However, some companies have computerized centralized order taking at a location completely separate from their stocking locations, so don't *assume* people can tell you anything that's not written in the catalog. I've had one company tell me to just order a set of change gears and return them if I couldn't use them. This wasn't crazy, the order taker simply had no relevant information available. Get the catalogs and shop around. Very often there are *big* differences in price between identical items, and even more often one source will have a unique or slightly different item at an excellent price compared to the "standard" item. There are lots of reasons for this. I have seen 2 to 1 price ratios on things like shim stock (from the same manufacturer) and "can't twist" clamps (from different manufactures but of equal quality). Occasionally, you will find 10 to 1 price ratios on things like boxes of hose clamps. Great deals if you look around. If you can, examine a tool at a local store (where the prices may be higher) to see what the quality is like, before placing the order by mail or telephone. You can also learn a great deal by perusing the catalogs, both about tools in general, and about specific details of specific tools. There's seldom enough room in a catalog to print all the manufacturer's data, but different sources will select different stuff to print. I have many times used one company's catalog to select the precise thing I wanted, then bought it from another company because the price was better. Most suppliers ship quickly if they have a credit card authorization. If they don't ship within two working days on a routine basis, shop somewhere else in the future. One full working day is quite common. I have had only one bad incident in the 4 or 5 years I've been buying industrial stuff by telephone, and came through with no losses. A supply company (which entered bankruptcy proceedings just a little while ago, by the way) charged my credit card for the full amount of my order, didn't ship for a month, and was completely clueless as to when they would ship my order. That is intolerable, and protection against abuse like that is one good reason to use a credit card rather than sending a check. You don't need to sue to get your money back if the merchant doesn't come through. (If it's not obvious, I got my money back and started to throw out that company's catalogs as they arrived.) Some industrial suppliers don't do back orders because it slows things down. The stock pickers send what's in stock and mark out of stock items on the invoice. This may be a little different from retail mail order sources you've dealt with in the past. Contact them about what's in stock and when it's expected to be available. Be prepared to return an item. Having to return an item because it was misshipped, defective, or of unsatisfactory quality is *NOT* an indictment of the supplier. If you do enough shopping for industrial supplies, you will find that you have to do a partial return maybe 1 time in 5. Don't get mad; don't get upset. It's routine. Industrial supply and consumer retail have different expectations about quality control. When you return an item, follow instructions. Many, but not all, suppliers require you to contact them for a "return authorization" number, which you must write on the outside of the package. You should include a copy of the invoice in the package. This is *NOT* an opportunity for the supplier to screw you over. This is a routine matter, and most of them just ask you to note on the invoice what was wrong and if you want credit, a refund, an exchange for something else, or whatever. 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? This is actually a tricky subject, and beyond the scope of this FAQ. However, an excellent book on sharpening knives and similar tools is: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranitch. 1985 by Warner Books, ISBN 0-446-38002-4, $12.50 This book can sometimes be found in the larger knife stores, such as frequently found in USA malls (e.g. Cutlery World). It is a bit biased in that John also sells sharpening equipment, but the techniques are fundamental and can be used with competitor's equipment such as Lansky's. Another source for the book is Knife World Books, (800) 828-7751 Ext 71. Sharpening drill bits has never seemed easy. If you have lots of money, Darex makes drill and mill sharpeners, and Glendo's Accu- Finish line addresses simpler cutting bits (and they even re-sell some Darex tools in conjunction with their grinders). Black and Decker reportedly make a decent drill sharpener (1/8" to 1/2") for around $250. Some of the magazines will print articles from time to time on sharpening, and/or building sharpening equipment. 15. The following text on safety was donated by Gary Preckshot: The forces involved in metalworking machinery are far higher than most people expect. You can either be struck by shrapnel or pulled into a machine by being caught by a moving part. There are several rules that reduce these hazards: a) Don't wear loose clothes, ties, unsecured braids, or jewelry. b) Turn off machines and *WAIT* for rundown before approaching the working area. You'll spend a lot more time in an ER than you'll ever save by jumping in right away. c) Don't snap chips using a shop towel. Use a brush or air. d) Don't mess with long chips curling off a turning. If you get build up, stop the machine and remove the chips wearing leather gloves and using pliers. e) Keep power transmission belts of any kind isolated and guarded. Flat leather belts are especially hazardous because they tend to be unguarded on crowned cone pulleys. If in doubt, add more clamps. If in doubt, chuck more deeply or use a collet. A turning that comes adrift can damage both the lathe and you. A workpiece that shifts can damage both the mill and you. Stuff gets hot when cut. Let it cool before picking it up. Metal cutting generally leaves a sharp burr. Break the edges with a file or a de-burring tool before you release the work for general handling. Don't let kids, wives, husbands, girlfriends, or boyfriends close to metalworking operations without training or close supervision. Chips are extremely sharp. Long, curled chips from lathe turnings are especially dangerous because kids, wives, husbands, girlfriends, or boyfriends see only how pretty they are. You can get a very deep cut by handling such chips with your hands. Have a system for removing and storing chips. Use it regularly. Use eye protection - ALWAYS. Beware of fascination. Metal cutting tools flash and glint as they spin. An unwary person may reach toward the pretty, shiny tool. This is no joke. It happens. Then you take a trip to the local ER. Don't watch welding without adequate dark glass filters. You can get a tan in 2 minutes and a burn in five on any exposed skin close to arc welding. It doesn't hurt for about 3 hours, but then it hurts for days. Cover up. Don't play with air. Not only can it inject chips (by blowing them) into your body, but it can inject oily air as well. Sometimes right through the skin. Air is no joke. In general, no horseplay in the shop. Banish anybody who can't understand this simple rule. This is one place where absolute dictatorship is better than democracy. Take your time. You'll save on rework time, machine repair, and medical costs. 16. How do I drill round holes? In May 1993 the following question was posted. This brought a lot of useful suggestions for a problem often seen ... Subject: I can't drill round holes I am trying to drill 1/4" holes in 3/32" mild steel with a H/S twist bit in a 12" Delta bench press. The holes are not round. They tend towards the triangular. The piece I am drilling has a 1 1/4" square cross section. The distortion is worst in the exit hole through the bottom of the member. What is going on? Is there anything I can do to correct the problem? Morgan Hall gave the following shot as to how a simple twist drill manages to create a non-circular hole: Hint -- look at the rotor and housing of a Mazda rotary engine You can model the working end of a drill bit as a single straight line of finite length. If you fix one end and try to rotate it, the opposite end of the line sweeps out an arc. (the drill flexes) After about 1/3 revolution, the stuck end breaks free and sweeps out another arc while the formerly free end sticks. With alternate ends sticking, then breaking free, the arcs will form a kind of polygon with arcs of radius equal to the drill's diameter. After the first cuts, the "corners" of the polygon tend to stop the sweeping cut for each drill flute. The most common I've seen is the triangular hole, but other polygons are definitely possible. I suspect that this occurrence is related to some sort of resonance in the drilling setup. The suggestions that followed may be useful to anyone trying to drill holes. Some of them may qualify as 'obvious' but they're still worth bearing in mind... * Ensure the drill is sharp. * Make sure the work is firmly clamped * Don't try and run the bit too fast for the drill size and work material. * Don't force the feed rate; as with *any* cutting process, let the cutter do the cutting. * Keep as much of the drill in the chuck as possible. The more flexibility there is in the drill, the more likely you are to have problems. * When drilling thin material, it is often useful to provide some form of backing clamped to the work. This has the added advantage of keeping the burrs to a minimum. * The drill tip may need to be ground to a different angle, depending on the material being worked. * An undersize pilot hole is often a good idea. If you are drilling using a mark made with a centre punch and the tip of the drill is larger than the mark, you are unlikely to get accurate placement. * Don't forget to use a cutting lubricant * The quality of the hole is only going to be as good as the machine you are using will allow. If the drill spindle is sloppy, there may be nothing you can do about it. As a final comment, if you really want a round, accurately sized hole, you are unlikely to get it with a twist drill. Drill undersize and use a reamer if it's important. 17. What's TIG and MIG? TIG - Tungsten Inert Gas A small torch with a tungsten electrode is used to make the arc inside an envelope of an inert gas, usually argon or some argon mixture. A filler rod is manually introduced to complete the weld. The resulting weld is very pretty and usually requires no further finish. It is used mostly for welding sheets of mild steel, stainless steel or aluminum. The better machines have a foot control and a high frequency arc starter. Any sizable stick welder can be retro-fitted to do TIG welding, but without the foot control. MIG - Metal Inert Gas MIG and wire feed are the same thing. In this process, a consumable wire electrode is fed from a spool to the torch where the weld occurs inside an envelop of pure carbon dioxide, pure argon or a mixture of both. The weld continues as long as the operator has the trigger depressed and there is something to weld. This process is very fast, easy to learn and results in fairly good looking (better with argon) and strong welds. Most production welding of mild steel is now done with MIG welding. There is no slag to chip, but there is a slight thin coating of a glassy material that probably should be wire brushed off before painting. MIG welding can be used for thin or thick materials and is commonly used on mild steel, stainless and aluminum. Some common features of MIG machines are spot welding and stitch welding of sheet metal. There is a special wire called flux core that can be used in a MIG welder without the shielding gas. This process leaves a slag coating that must be chipped off. For most people on this group there isn't much use for flux core, as it was developed to reduce cost for large- scale welding where the cost of Argon starts piling up. There are fairly cheap 120 volt MIG welders that will only weld thin sheet metal. A more practical 240 volt machine that will weld up to about .25 inch is about $1500-$2000 new, $800-$1200 used. The machine I have will do MIG welding and stick welding, but most are MIG only. A machine that will weld .25 inch in a single pass will still weld thicker materials with multiple passes. 18. MIG welding technique. (The following was submitted by James Swonger on May 4, 1993) The quality of a MIG weld is controlled by gas flow, the qualities of that gas, the "heat" and feed rate settings. While getting a quality weld is less dependent on "touch" than gas or arc welding, it does depend on the right combination of the settable machine parameters. There are three modes of material transfer in a wire feed machine. One is "blob mode", where the wire sticks, then melts locally, then breaks. This occurs at the lower end of the heat/wire feed range. I say heat/feed rate as a ratio, because this pretty much determines which deposition mode you will see. Blob mode welds are the lowest penetration and lowest transferre heat, because there's almost no real arc action, just mostly resistive heating of the wire and contact point. The second mode as you move up the range is a soft arc with the metal being pushed through it. You'll recognize this mode when it happens; there's no more "wire push", the sound changes from a random snapping to a more uniform sizzle and everything just gets smooth. This is what I consider the ideal mode. The arc is stable but most of its energy is transferred into melting the fed wire and a localized area of the workpiece. In this mode I see about 1/4" of heat affected zone around the weld (automotive sheet metal thickness), and by proper setting I can get perfect penetration which I define to be some backside protrusion but no sag or burn-through. The handpiece ("gun") in this mode may have a buzzing feel to it but none of the bucking you get in blob mode. The third mode is when heat is much higher than the wire feed rate needs. This mode is akin to traditional arc welding, except with a fed wire. The arc energy now is biased more into the workpiece, with attendant heating and penetration. The wire still adds filler but there is more tendency to undercut, eat back and blow through especially on thin pieces. In this high heat/feed mode the buzzing/sizzling sound is replaced by a more purely electrical arc sound (whispering/crackling). This mode is desirable when welding pieces much thicker than the wire, especially when you haven't taken the bother of grinding proper chamfers and need to get penetration. Gas flow provides an important cooling effect. This is one reason why flux cored wire is harder to use on sheet metal; there's no place for the weld heat to go except the workpiece. Argon, A75 and CO2 have different welding characteristics. Argon will make the weld "sit up" higher, CO2 gives the most penetration and A75 is in the middle somewhere. Only Argon is suitable for aluminum; A75 is sort of marginal for stainless (leaves some carbon) but pretty ideal for general mild steel use. An adjustable regulator provides more latitude in balancing arc heat/feed and cooling. A high flow of gas can reduce warpage while allowing faster material transfer. I have a cheap preset flow regulator which is a compromise setting, compromise price type deal. To minimize panel warpage you must apply some technique as well. The MIG machine does not eliminate the need for skill; it just lets you apply your attention to more important things and lets you slide on some of the basics. Warping results from too much differential heating and expansion in the workpiece. By understanding the material and equipment you can keep this from being a problem. Duty cycle is one simple way of further reducing overall heat input. By welding in short, spaced beads you can join panels without overheating any large areas. First the piece should be "tacked" every few inches, with bead lengths of 1/2" or so. Make several passes after that, filling in the gaps bit by bit and not working any one region for long. The workpiece's thermal spreading will cool the small HAZ (*) pretty quickly if the total heat deposited remains small. A spot cools much more rapidly than a line. The edge of a thin metal piece presents a special case, a "boundary condition" which behaves differently than the bulk. With half the heat dissipation ability of the bulk, the edge will tend to burn back, distort and so on. This can be addressed by reducing heat (although this may force you into running blob mode), by different choice of metal overlap configuration and by carefully running the arc. A true butt joint in thin material is difficult to make. A -perfect- butting is hard to do on formed sheet metal, and any gaps will tend to enlarge in the welding process. For this reason a lapped weld is often preferred. A panel can be flanged to let the two pieces overlap but keep the final surface flush. The flange provides a backup as well in case of erosion of the edge on the top piece. =========\\W++++++++++++ \\==== A second sort of joint is a butted-V which protects the edges as the weld hits the sidewalls without necessarily reaching the bottom of the groove. --------\WW+++++++++ \+ Places like Eastwood sell specialty tools for making both types of flanges on sheet metal. Of course, you need to be careful not to cause deformation from the flanging process itself. I have made my own flanging tool for the first form out of an extra pair of Channel-Loks with extra jaw material brazed in and ground to shape. The Eastwood tool is Vise-Grip based and looks like it's a bit better as far as force required to make the flange due to the compound action. I think a pair of beat up sheet metal shears might be a better basis for making a new one. (*) HAZ = Heat Affected Zone; the area where you see thermally-induced material changes in the workpiece. This is basically the extent of any visible surface discoloration when using the MIG, although if you run the gas after stopping the arc you may not even be able to see anything because oxygen is excluded. If you remove the gas and arc together you will get the normal thin oxidation layer like you see when grinding or heating to temper. The outside of the blue oxide region is the periphery of the HAZ, although the material effects there are probably negligible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following was submitted by mrehmus@cup.portal.com Use of MIG for body work. A bad idea fostered on us amateurs by our ignorance. If you look at the available wire for MIG, you don't find anything much softer than S60 or higher wire. In general, the higher the yield strength of metal, the harder it is to work. (Try forming tool-steel as a test). The weld bead left by a MIG is very hard relative to the body sheet metal and is almost impossible to work. It also cracks very easily even if one trys to anneal the metal in the weld. In restoring a 1967 Mercury Cougar I finally had to teach myself hammer welding using a welding torch. The results were much better!! 1. The seam is the same thickness as the parent sheet metal. 2. The seam is as soft or softer than the parent sheet metal. 3. The seam and the surrounding sheet metal are easily worked to remove any defects caused by the welding process. Should anyone want to equal the hammer welding process but with an electric source of heat, TIG is the only way to go. The filler metal selection is much, much wider and the TIG can be run way down to 10 amps or so which would probably let you weld aluminum foil if you wished. Oh yea, in the professional welder's world, the common opinion is that a TIG weld is superior to MIG. So why do the professional body shops like the MIG? It is necessary for the welding of high-strength steel that is commonly used in the structural parts of the modern automobile. Not, I repeat, NOT for the external sheet metal. The external sheet metal (the part we can see) is still mild steel because of the expense and difficulty of making sheet metal forming dies that would last and give good results with high-strength steel. Remember that body shops replace whole panels, they rarely "patch" a panel. The high-quality restoration shops use TIG or (usually) a torch and hammer welding. GOOD video tapes to know about: "Learning MIG Welding" by SIP "Hammerwelding Techniques" by Car Guy Videotapes "Patch Panel Installation" by Car Guy Videotapes I have watched these tapes many times, always learning more at every session. The tape on MIG welding uses a good visual filter technique to show every type of weld puddle. After viewing the tape, my MIG welding has been much better. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Tue Jan 4 21:32:42 EST 1994 Article: 3142 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 3 of 4 Message-ID: <1994Jan3.163152.1088@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 3 Jan 94 16:31:52 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 3 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Jan 94 16:31:53 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 775 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 3 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19. We frequently see "What should I buy" questions; one example is "What MIG welder should I buy?" There is no definite answer, and the prospective buyer should read the other entries in this FAQ regarding welding. What follows is an example of such a question and the answers received (June, 1993). We claim no responsibility for correctness or liability for your money! Keith King asked: I'm looking at the purchase of a MIG welder for auto body repair and other light welding jobs around the homestead and I don't have much background on this type of equipment. The models I'm looking at are the Lincoln SP-100 and the Miller 130. Both models are 110v portables. The Miller has a higher rating but I'm not sure if that's critical for my applications. The Lincoln has the advantage of having infinitely variable power output vs. stepped output for the Miller and the salesman said the gun on the Lincoln was a "Tweako?" whatever that means. Both units are similarly priced/warranted etc. Century has a bunch of lower priced, shorter warranty, cheaper looking, MIG welders. Does anyone have any experience/opinions on these welders or other MIGs to help me make a more informed purchase. Jim Narem answered/asked: I'm also interested in MIG welders for sheet metal and roll bar work. I've used the Italian made SIP 110V MIG unit. It works; it was worth $100 (purchased at some close-out sale) but not the $350 that places want retail. It's tough to get parts; even the tips have to be ordered. The wire feed mechanism sucks. I've seen some new Lincoln's on the market; both are wire feed welders with optional MIG kits as opposed to the SP-100 and SP-130 which are purpose build MIG units. Lincoln Weld-Pak 100, 88 amp, 18V @ 20% duty, 110V, $354 w/MIG kit. Lincoln Weld-Pak 125, 130 amp, 20v @ 30% duty, 220V, $556 w/MIG kit. (Prices are Connecticut Home Depot, tax bandit not included) The MIG kits are about $80 each, they have a gas flow regulator, solenoid and (I think) a different gun. Does anyone have any experience with these welders? They seem cost effective compared to the SP-100 and SP-130 but I'm nervous since Lincoln seems to be releasing some home/consumer grade equipment (like their new AC arc welder with the cheezy variable amperage control). There are also several Century MIG units commonly available at large home improvement shops (yup, WELD on that new addition). I've used their AC/DC arc welder and was impressed with its cost/performance. Has anyone used any of the Century MIGs? Ken Clarke answered: I took an evening welding class at a technical high school (10 weeks) and got to try various types of welding (stick, MIG, TIG, and oxy/acetylene. Also got some good tips on safety, and on how to by a MIG welder. The instructor spoke of the "big three" in the welding business (Miller, Lincoln, and Hobart). He was a confirmed "Miller" man, but we used Lincoln (and Airco) welders in the tech. school. I now think that it makes sense to buy whatever you decide to buy at your favorite welding supply store. The guys there have lots of good advice and if you go with one of the big three, you will not have any problem getting parts and consumables for your welder. I looked around for a while and compared the 110v portable welders by Lincoln and Miller and Hobart. My favorite welding supply house was having a "package deal" that included the Hobart Handler 120. Included in the package was the welder, a 2 lb. spool of .024 wire, a Jackson welders mask with the 4x5 face plate (get a number 10 shade), a *good* pair of welders gloves, a 55 cu. ft. tank of shielding gas (C25 which is 25 percent CO2 and 75 percent Argon), a dual-gauge regulator and connecting hose. This was about 1.5 years ago and I believe I paid $625 for the package. The Hobart has been great. It works fine on auto body panels and I have also done work on exhaust systems, mailbox posts, minibike mufflers, lawnmower parts, and am finishing up a trailer axle for a friend this weekend. So, I guess I'm advocating the Hobart, but if you can get a good deal on the Miller or the Lincoln, those would probably be fine, too. A few of the features on the Hobart that I liked were: 1. A "purge" feature, that allows you to set the flow rate on the shielding gas without spooling out wire. 2. The wire feed mechanism that lets you set the tension on the drive wheel but also lets you change wire spools without moving the setting. 3. The ergonomics of the unit, the way the wire spool goes in, the way the lid hinges down (not up like the others). 4. Five year warranty on power diodes and SCRs, three years on major components and one year on parts and labor. I would stay away from the Century welder. I don't think it has the quality of the "big three". I think you would have trouble getting parts, probably would have to order them. All parts for the big three can be had at local welding supply houses, in-stock. Also, the "Tweeko" comment is referring to the gun end of the welder. I hear that it's supposed to be a very common industry-standard type of part. Parts for the Tweeko handle/gun should be available at any welding supply house. Jim Swonger answered: "Tweako" is actually Tweco, a manufacturer of MIG and TIG handpieces and such. What this means is that parts are pretty readily available; they're everywhere. For sheet metal welding you'll run nowhere near the maximum heat setting on any machine. On my 160 I'm down on "2" for heat. The higher current machines of some of the cheaper brands need to be looked at carefully; some of them have -very- low duty cycles, leading me to believe that the critical parts are not much, if any, better than the cheaper models. The "purge" feature is good to have; however if you do not find a machine with it you can add it pretty simply. An auxiliary control switch for the solenoid valve is all it takes, in parallel with the relay that runs off the gun trigger. For serious sheet metal work spot and stitch modes are very nice amenities, allowing you to tack up a large piece with spaced short beads, minimizing distortion and allowing a fast, even hand motion. You can get by without it, but if it comes free or cheap... Quite a while later (26-Sep-1993), mrehmus@cup.portal.com wrote -- I've owned a Century 90 amp MIG welder for 4 or 5 years now. Never a problem with the unit and I've put three large reels of 0.024" wire through it. The one time I thought I had a problem the people at Century were very helpful. Century may not be one of the "big three" but they have been around for a very long time (mainly they make many of the professional battery chargers sold in this country, so I'm told). ------------ Other comments that have come up from various sources, especially Ken Clarke: Arc welders are often rated for a particular duty cycle, such as 30%. This means you can weld for about 3 minutes at full power, then you have to let the welder cool off for 7 minutes. The cheap units are typically low duty cycle, where the professional units have a high duty cycle. Also, units are often rated at a certain lower amperage where they can safely be operated at a higher percentage; for example, a 200 amp unit might be rated at 50 amps @ 100%, 100 amps at @ 60%, and 200 amps at 30%. Look for some sort of automatic cutoff to protect your investment in case you get carried away. DC systems are nicer than AC systems, especially if you can reverse polarity. AC systems splatter a bit more. DC doesn't as much, and makes a nicer weld as a result. Reversing polarity apparently can direct heat away from, or to, the workpiece; directing it away from a sheet metal weld can reduce warpage. Inverter models run off DC, or rectified line current. Their portability is the main selling point, for field welding where 220V isn't available. For the home or small shop, they are probably overkill. Large spools of wire, or other welding supplies, may corrode before they get used up in a hobby environment. Dry storage is important to preserve them. 20. Books on welding. Courtesy of kenm@daffy.cac.washington.edu Here's a source of good and inexpensive welding books. A catalog is available from: Lincoln Arc Welding Foundation PO Box 17035 Cleveland, OH 44117 They list a couple of dozen titles. Here are nutshell reviews of the ones I've seen: Metals and How to Weld Them, 400 pg, $5.00 A great book on the metallurgy of welding. It's not a how-to-weld book, but instead answered the Why? type questions I've had for years. Principles of Industrial Welding, 384 pg, $6.50 Your run-of-the-mill textbook. Design of Weldments, 464 pg, $7.00 A text on the design of welded machinery etc. There is a different book on welded structures. Well worth it it you are designing your own projects. New Lessons in Arc Welding, 528 pg, $5.00 Hard to describe - kind of a lab manual for a welding tips. Certainly worth the $5. Arc Welded Projects Vol 2, 272 pg, $5.00 Arc Welded Projects Vol 3, 170 pg, $4.50 Full of short (couple of page) descriptions of all kinds of rather ambitious projects - a tractor snowblower, log splitter, chariot, sailboat, woodstove, .... These are good books at any price, and great books at these prices. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. There sometimes seems a fine line between soldering (several types, at that), brazing, and welding. Here we try to shed some light on soldering and brazing. The following was contributed by Tim Kirby around 3/3/93 when the newsgroup was discussing the "true meaning" of silver soldering and the distinction between hard and soft solder. : Can anyone remember the "official" difference between : Hard & Soft solders ? While browsing for something else entirely, I found my copy of 'Model Locomotive and Marine Boilers' [Argus Press, 1988, ISBN 0-85242-923-1] by Martin Evans (well known in the Model Engineering field, at least in the UK) from which I have gratuitously (and without prejudice) stolen the following extract for your contemplation. As an aside, this is a useful book for those interested in designing and building boilers. Chapter 3, page 55: Silver Soldering and Brazing Soldering and brazing are processes which involve the joining of metals by the addition of molten filler metal of substantially different composition, at temperatures well below their melting point. An important difference between silver-soldering and brazing or welding is that the brazing alloy or filler material must be drawn by capillary forces right through the mating joint surfaces, and not merely deposited at the edges. Soft Solders are generally accepted as including the alloys of low melting point up to about 400 deg. C. They are usually based on Tin or Lead with small additions of antimony and sometimes silver. Hard solders, or silver-solders, are those alloys suitable for soldering which have melting points from 400 deg. C. up to about 800 deg. C. (see BSI 1845/1964) [for those who don't understand that reference, BSI is the British Standards Institute, similar in function to (for example) ANSI. BSI 1845 probably details this stuff in excruciating detail ;-) ... Tim.] Brazing alloys are alloys suitable for brazing (sic) which have melting points from about 800 deg. C. up to about 1000 deg. C. It should however be understood that there is no definite line of demarcation between silver-solders and brazing alloys. The former always contain a proportion of silver, while the brazing alloys generally contain copper, zinc and sometimes tin. Brazing alloys containing copper and phosphorus are also available but these are not recommended for boiler work. 22. What are bolt grades? We frequently see questions regarding bolt grades, so here's a partial list. Please note that just because a bolt is grade 2 does not mean it will break easily. Grading only refers to the minimum strength, not the maximum. Thus, if a machine uses a soft bolt as a safety shear pin, and you happen to replace it with a grade 2 bolt that was actually manufactured to grade 8 specs (but was marked down because too many of the bolts in the lot failed, so the whole lot was marked down) you could create some serious problems. Replace safety-related items with proper stuff! Also beware of improperly-marked forgeries. If your application is critical, test some samples or get certified hardware (not that readers of rec.crafts.metalworking are likely to be building interstate bridges or spacecraft, but it's worth saying). John M. Peterson kindly typed this in on July 20, 1993: Taken from Machinery's Handbook 23 , page 1286. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM and SAE Grade Markings for Steel Bolts and Screws ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Grade Marking Spec. Material ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- SAE - Grade 1 Low or Medium Carbon Steel No ASTM - A 307 Low Carbon Steel Mark SAE - Grade 2 Low or Medium Carbon Steel ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 5 Medium Carbon Steel Quenched and Tempered ASTM - A 409 / \ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 5.2 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ASTM - A 325 Medium Carbon Steel Type 1 Quenched and Tempered A 325 Radial dashes optional / \ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ASTM - A 325 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Type 2 Quenched and Tempered A 325 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 325 Atmospheric Corrosion (Weathering) Type 3 Steel, Quenched and Tempered A 325 ----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 354 Alloy Steel, Grade BC Quenched and Tempered BC ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 7 Medium Carbon Alloy Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered, Roll Threaded After Heat / \ Treatment ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 8 Medium Carbon Alloy Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered ASTM - A 354 Alloy Steel, / \ Grade BD Quenched and Tempered | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \/ SAE - Grade 8.2 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered \ / ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 490 Alloy Steel, Type 1 Quenched and Tempered A 490 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 490 Atmospheric Corrosion (Weathering) Type 3 Steel, Quenched and Tempered A 490 ----- 23. What is XYZ made of? Metals 1. What is Brass made of? Brass is a combination of copper and zinc, in approximately the ratio of 2/3 to 1/3, respectively. Sometimes lead (about 3%) is added to improve machinability. 2. What is Bronze made of? Bronze is usually made of copper and tin. However bronze describes any bronze colored alloy even if it doesn't have any tin. Various bronze alloys include silicon, manganese or phosphorus. Mostly bronze is used for bearings. 3. Steels Steel is a refined iron where the impurities carbon, silicon, sulphur and phosphorus are removed and then the iron is combined with carbon and/or chromium and/or nickel. Various other metals may be added to create a nearly infinite variety of steel and steel alloys. A few common steels are discussed below. a. What is CRS? Cold Rolled Steel. b. What is HRS? Hot Rolled Steel. c. What is HSS? High Speed Steel. d. What is stainless steel? Stainless steel is low in carbon but has about 20% chromium. Stainless has a beautiful finish but it is very hard to machine. Both CRS and HRS are mild steels. Mild steels have a low carbon (<.3%) content and therefore can't be hardened. CRS is formed (into bars, rods or angles ...) "cold" and therefore has internal stresses inside. Because of these stresses, an intricate part, like a one piece crankshaft, or a heat treated part may distort. CRS has a smooth surface, which requires no additional finishing. The steel stock found in the hardware store or home improvement center is usually CRS. HRS is formed hot so it does not have any internal stresses but it has a rough black scale surface. HRS is a little cheaper, but CRS is easier to find. HRS is used for welding, so a welding shop with steel stock would be a good source for HRS. HSS is a carbon steel (0.3% Date: 3 Jan 94 16:32:08 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 4 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 31 Jan 94 16:32:09 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 718 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 4 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (with special thanks to Stu Friedberg). Note also that a potential source of manufacturers/suppliers is the Thomas Register, found in most public libraries. -- Special entry: Not a company or anything, but for more info on crafts supplies, send e-mail to info@crafts-council.pe.ca and put "WANTED:" at the beginning of the subject line. This is a non-profit service of PEI Crafts Council in Charlottetown, Price Edward Island, Canada. They maintain a list of crafts suppliers and can answer questions like "give me a list of ceramics suppliers East of the Mississippi" or "who sells ConeArt kilns?" (per a post 9-Nov-1993) - Allcraft Tool & Supply 666 Pacific St. Brooklyn, NY 11217 (800)645-7124, (718)789-2800 Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Allied Devices Corporation 2365 Milburn Ave P.O. Box 502 Baldwin, New York 11510 (516) 223-9100, (516) 223-9172 (FAX) "Standard Precision Mechanical Components" such as small gears. Reputedly not cheap, but Small Parts Inc isn't either. - American Watchmakers-Clockmakers Institute (AWI) P.O. Box 11011 Cincinnati, OH 45211 (513) 661-3838, (513) 661-3131 (FAX) Membership is around $45 or so per year. They have an excellent magazine, Horological Times. Their orientation is more towards watch/clock repair. They offer many courses along those lines. The "Project Extended" courses are given in Cincinnati, but they have many other courses (around 5 days) given around the country. They have at least 100 videotapes on various aspects of lathe work and clock repair. - ARE, Inc. Box 8 Greensboro Bend, VT 05842 (800)736-4273, (802)533-7007, (802)533-7008 fax Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Argus Books P.O. Box 35 Wolsey House Wolsey Road, Hemel Hempstead Herts HP2 4SS England Telephone: Hemel Hempstead (0442)66551 Publishers of Model Engineer in England. Heavy on live-steam model trains, mostly machining topics, some interesting plans. - Blue Ridge Machinery and Tools, Inc. PO Box 536 2806 Putnam Avenue Hurricane, WV 25516 800-872-6500, 304-562-3538 in WV, 304-562-5311 (fax) Credit cards, COD's up to $200 M,W,F 9-5 EST, Tu,Th 9-9 EST Lathes, milling machines, presses, brakes, from puny to industrial. Accessories and parts for popular machines from Myford, South Bend, Atlas, Sherline, Emco-Maier, etc. Hand tools and books of interest to hobbyists and professionals. Woodworking power tools Steel, brass, aluminum, tool steel in small quantities. 110 page catalog - Borel and Frei 712 S. Olive St. Los Angeles, CA 90014 (800)654-9591, (213)689-7007, (213)533-7008 fax Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Bourget Bros. Lapidary and Jeweler's Supplies 1636 11th St. Santa Monica, CA 90404 (800)828-3024 - Brownells Route 2 Box 1 200 South Front Street Montezuma, Iowa, 50171 (515) 623-5401, (515) 623-3896 (FAX) Brownells is a fine firm that specializes in gunsmithing, though a lot of their merchandise is great for general-purpose metalworking. Catalog is $4.00, refundable with first order of $40 or more (but if you can convince them you are a dealer, then it is free). They have lower prices for gun dealers, "enciphered" in the catalog in a manner similar to the following -- Item: Foo Bar Grips an9xx20dd Price: $19.95 means list price is $19.95, dealer price is $9.20. However, in recent catalogs they have changed the coding on some items. While some people have apparently convinced them they are a dealer, the usual requirement seems to be an FFL (Federal Firearms License) before they sell for the dealer price. - Campbell Tools, Inc. 2100-H Selma Rd. Springfield, OH 45505 (513) 322-8562 A machine supplier attuned to the hobbyist metalworker. They carry Sherline, Emco, Jet, and other machines. Also books, hardware, raw materials, etc. Highly recommended by one net reader. - Centaur Forge Ltd. P.O. Box 340 117 N. Spring Street Burlington, WI 53105 (414) 763-9175, (414) 763-8350 (FAX) Publications concentrate on forging, blacksmithing, though all aspects of metalworking are covered. A good, well-organized collection. They also publish a magazine, Anvil (see earlier section). Centaur Forge is the source for blacksmithing supplies from tongs to furnaces. Also a source of horse shoeing supplies. - Cole's Power Models P.O. Box 788 Ventura, CA 93001 (805) 643-7065 Castings, books, supplies, accessories. For trains, stationary steam, gasoline engines. The catalog costs $4. - Condar Co. 10500 Industrial Drive Garrettsville, OH 44231 (216) 527-4343 They sell a pyrometer (high-temp thermometer) for gas forges and such, Unit 9-85 which comes with a 6-foot 2200-degree probe for $60. They also have a high temp probe (3000 degrees; Unit 14S4-1, $17). Probably lots of other related items, but this came up in discussion on low-cost pyrometers around 3/25/93. - Darex Corporation 220 Hersey Street Box 277 Ashland, OR 97520 (503) 488-2224, (503) 488-2229 (FAX) Precision drill and end-mill sharpening equipment. Some of their complete systems are very expensive and intended for large production shops (around $2000). They also sell fixtures for use with existing grinders (about $250) and sharpeners for taps, reamers, and countersinks. - Eastwood Company (800) 345-1178 Metal fabrication equipment, welding supplies, etc. Reportedly, the prices are rather high. - Enco Manufacturing Co. 13 stocking locations, main site in Chicago, IL (addresses not handy now) 800-860-3400 (24 hr orders, automatically routes to closest location) 800-860-3500 (fax, also auto routes) Credit cards, COD's up to $500, discount for pre-pay by check $25 minimum order Customer service & Chicago showroom M-F 7-midnight CST, Sa 8-4 CST, Su 9-4 CST Lathes, milling machines, etc, from small to large NC machines. Hand tools, cutting tools, storage cabinets, shop supplies Maker (not just distributer) of turret bed lathes. However, many net folks have reported that quality and service are between awful and terrible (this author included), and that Enco is to be avoided. This is not a unanimous opinion, but close. 230 page catalog - Gateway Clocks 7936 Camberly Drive Powell, TN 37849 Gateway Clocks is apparently a one-man business, in the person of W. R. Smith, author of several clockmaking books and one on clockmaking and model-making (see earlier section in the FAQ). Gateway also sells all of John Wilding's books, and John Wilding (in England) sells all of Smith's books, through a reciprocal agreement. - Gesswein 255 Hancock Ave. Bridgeport, CT 06605 (800)243-4466, (203)366-5400, (203)366-3953 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Glendo Corporation 900 Overlander Road P.O. Box 1153 Emporia, KS 66801 (800) 835-3519, (316) 343-1084, (316) 343-9640 (FAX) Their Accu-Finish line of "advanced sharpening equipment" includes grinders and fixtures for lathe cutting bits and similar tools. Also, most affordable for the home shop, the Grind-R-Table for use with existing grinders. They often run ads in the magazines, or you can call for information. - Harbor Freight Tools 3491 Mission Oaks Blvd. Camarillo, CA 93011-6010 800 423 2567 They mostly sell cheap tools. Usually cheap = inexpensive, sometimes cheap = junky. All (or most all) imported. They are best for items which have a lot of metal in them and for which fine/precision is not your main objective. They have really great buys on anvils, cold chisel sets, screwdriver sets, tinsnips, crowbars, ... and free shipping (other than a $2.95 handling fee) for orders over $50. - Industrial Pipe and Steel Co. 9936 E. Rush Street South El Monte, CA 91733 800-423-4981, 818-443-9467, 818-579-4602 (fax) Credit cards, COD's M-F 7:30-4:30 PST, Sa 7:30-1 PST Cutting tools, hand tools, air tools, lathes, milling machines, you name it. Shop supplies, tool and die maker supplies, you name it. Metal of all sorts, you name it. New and used press die sets. Surplus rounds and plates. Buy by the foot, buy by the pound. Most of their metal stock is not listed in the catalog(s). Call and ask what they've got. Definitely oriented toward professional users, not hobbyists. Full line distributors for most instrument makers, Starrett, Mitutoyo, etc. Quality ranges from ultra-classy, great deals, garbage-at-any-price import. Small catalog several times a year, 200 page catalog once or twice a year, and a 750 page full-line catalog once every five years. They came out with a full-line catalog in 92. Get one if you can. - J. I. Morris Company 394 Elm Street Southbridge, MA 01550 Phone: (508) 764-4394, (508) 764-7350 (FAX) Tiny screws, nuts, washers. Sizes 0000-16 to 2-56 and popular UNM sizes stocked in many head styles and lengths in both brass and burr-free stainless. Matching taps, chasers, and gages available. Write/FAX for catalog or send for prompt quotation. - J. Malcolm Wild (Clocks) 12 Norton Green Close Sheffield S8 8BP England Telephone: 0742 745693 Supplies and accessories for clockmaking. - The Jeweler's Loupe 1625 Crenshaw Blvd. Torrance, CA 90501 (310)320-7005 - Kitts Industrial Tools 22384 Grand River Avenue Detroit, MI 48219 800-521-6579, 313-538-2585 in MI, 313-538-6499 (fax) Credit cards, COD's $25 minimum order M-Sa 9-5 EST Cutting tools, hand tools, air tools, supplies Quality ranges from ultra-classy, great deals, garbage-at-any-price import 150 page catalog - Klockit P.O. Box 636 Lake Geneva, WI 53147 (800) KLOCKIT (i.e. (800) 556-2548) Books, kits, plans, tools, parts for clocks and watches. - Lasquad Metals 419 N. 13th Street San Jose, CA (408) 294-3686 Hours: 10-5 M-F, 10-2 Sat. According to John Kopf, LASQUAD stands for "Loose And Sloppy, QUick And Dirty". Mostly aluminum ($2.60/lb new, 1.50 surplus), some brass (2.75 new, 2.00 surplus), some copper, stainless steel, etc. Its a couple of miles from Enco. Didn't sound like they'd take phone or mail orders but I haven't tried. - Lindsay Publications Inc. P. O. Box 538 Bradley, IL 60915-0538 (815) 935-5353 Lindsay publishes books for the home shop, covering casting, forging, machining, and a few plans for building engines and such. It has been reported that their catalog is "a bit bizarre" but the service is fast. Their electrical catalog has cross-over projects that include light (pun intended?) metalworking. - Mason & Sullivan 210 Wood County Industrial Park Parkersburg, WV 26102-1686 800-225-1153 (orders), 800-535-4486 (technical advice), 800-535-4482 (customer service), 304-428-8271 (FAX) Supplier of clock kits, plans, parts, and tools. In business since 1947, they recently went out of business, and have re-appeared owned in part by the employees, though they also appear to be affiliated with the Woodcraft company (same address!) - McMaster-Carr Supply Company PO Box 440 New Brunswick NJ 08903-0440 USA 908-329-3200 (Sales), 908-329-6666 (Other Departments), 908-329-3772 (FAX) Also has stocking sales centers in Atlanta, Chicago, and Los Angeles. Note that they apparently only deal with companies. Jim Harres reports that they refused to send him a catalog. Prints an annual 2600+ page catalog. Very complete supplier with tools, screws, shelving, wheels, lamps, heaters, air conditioners, plumbing, electrical supplies, plastics, metals, pumps, containers, motors, gauges, paint brushes, hooks, door hardware, pH testers, microscopes, etc. Metric and english threads and sizes, too. Small bits of information, reference charts and advice are scattered throughout the catalog. No minimum order. Satisfaction Guaranteed, whatever that means. No problem with returns, but they ask that you get specific return instructions before shipping anything back. All prices subject to change. Visa and MasterCard accepted. Prices are quoted plus actual shipping. Experience with McMaster-Carr is very good. They do update (read: raise) their prices frequently, so don't believe catalog prices. Get a quote before buying. Expect the catalog to be 10% low. Shipments have been prompt, complete, and accurate. Prices seem high, but they make up for it with "one-stop" shopping. - Metal Buyer's Mart, Ltd. (formerly Metal By Mail) N-15 W 22218 Watertown Road, Unit #3 Waukesha, WI 53186 (800) 657-0721, (414) 547-3860 (FAX) $2 catalog, which contains decent descriptions of what they sell (hardness, machinability, etc.). Ferrous and nonferrous metals, fasteners, and a few nonmetallic materials such as nylon and teflon. - Micro-Mark 340 Snyder Avenue Berkeleyheights NJ 07922-1595 (800) 225-1066, (908) 665-9383 Miniature tools & things, including Sherline lathes and mills. "Weensy" nonferrous tube, rod, sheet. Everything sold in small quantities. Prices not superb, but some of the items can't be found elsewhere. - MSC Industrial Supply Co. 151 Sunnyside Blvd Plainview, NY 11803 (800) 645-7270 (AT&T), (800) 753-7900 (MCI), (800) 255-5067 FAX Their 92/93 catalog is 1950 pages, and their selection has been described as "dumbfounding". - Nordex, Inc. 50 Newton Road P.O. Box 1956 Danbury, CT. 06813 (800) 243-0986 Usual range of precision components. Spur gears down to .25" O.D. - Norm Larson Books 5426 E. Hwy 246 Lompoc, CA 93436 (800) 743-4766, (805) 735-2095 "... books on just about every subject about metal working there is." - Omega Engineering P.O. Box 2669 Stamford, CT 06906 (203) 359-1660 Mentioned as a source for pyrometers and/or materials for making thermocouples and other process-measurement stuff. - Penn Tool Company 1776 Springfield Ave Maplewood, NJ 07040 (800) 526-4956 A very-well-stocked supplier with a very large selection of drills, taps, reamers, and other machining tools. However, in some cases their prices seem outrageous, so check around first. On the other hand, they may be the only source for that odd-sized spiral-flute reamer you need, or that #00 tap. Their catalogs are free; there is a small (196 pages in 1993) one and a large one (410 pages, catalog no. P-912 as of late 1992), so ask for both (they may only send you the short one if you say you're a hobbyist). - PIC Design P.O. Box 1004 Benson Road Middlebury, CT. 06762 (800) 243-6125 Usual range of precision components. Gears down to less than 3/8" O.D. - Power Model Supply Rt 1 Box 177 NW Cor Hwy 67 & Lond Rd Desoto, MO 63020 (314) 586-6466 Similar to Cole's but heavier on the trains. - Reactive Metals Studio Box 890 Clarkdale, AZ 86324 (800)876-3434, (602)634-3434 Niobium, mixed metals, for jewelry and perhaps other purposes. - Reid Tool Supply Company 2265 Black Creek Road Muskegon, MI 49444-2684 (800) 253-0421, (616) 777-3951, (616) 773-4485 (FAX) Prints a 350+ page catalog twice a year. Very complete assortment of knobs, screws, clamps, springs, air hoses and couplings, drills, mills, taps, machinist's tooling, and books. No minimum order, 30-day return with full refund. Offers rework and specialty items with special conditions and terms. - River Gems and Findings (formerly Rio Grande) Dept T1 6801 Washington NE Albuquerque, NM 87109 (800)545-6566 orders, (800)533-3299 service, (505)344-9671 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Rutland Tool & Supply 16700 E. Gale Avenue City of Industry, CA. 91745-0587 (800) 289-4787, (818) 961-7111, (800) 333-3787 (FAX) (courtesy of Jon Bork) Rutland is a general machine shop supply house, with a good selection of tools, machines and accessories. They primarily deal with professionals, but I have dealt with them in person and by phone and they have always been helpful and quick. They send out several catalogs yearly including a new safety equipment supply catalog. Their prices are reasonable and they stock both top of the line and "quality import" selections for most items. - S. LaRose, Inc. 234 Commerce Place, P.O. Box 21208 Greensboro, NC 27420 (919) 275-0462 Watch and clock movements, repair parts, supplies, tools, equipment. - Scanlon American Reprints P.O. Box 379 Modesto, CA 95353 (209) 667-2907 Scanlon sells many books on clocks. - Secs, Inc. 520 Homestead Ave. Mt. Vernon, N.Y. 10550 (914) 667-5600 General line of precision hardware, gears, pulleys, clutches, etc. - Servo Products Company 433 N. Fair Oaks Ave., Box 90370 Pasadena, CA 91109 (818) 796-2460, (818) 796-3845 (FAX) Small precision drill presses and milling machines, including a whopping expensive CNC mill ($15,000). Power feeds for mills. CNC small lathe, CNC add-on for large mills. - Small Parts, Inc. 13980 N.W. 58th Court P.O. Box 4650 Miami Lakes, FL. 33014 (305) 557-8222, (800) 423-9009 (FAX) Nicest line of supplies and hardware for prototype builders. Specifically targeted for small quantities. Catalog includes prices. More fun than the Sears catalog. - Stock Drive Products 2101 Jericho Turnpike Box 5416 New Hyde Park, NY 11042-5416 (516) 328-3300 These folks make all sorts of gears, drives, bearings, couplings, and related stuff. Small, not hydroelectric-sized. Ask them for their free publication "Handbook of Gears." They also publish "Handbook of Shafts, Bearings & Couplings," "Handbook of Timing Belts, Chains & Friction Drives," "Handbook of Design Components," "Aluminum Extrusions & Accessories." They also package the whole set (I asked for just the handbook of gears and got all five). - Swest, Inc. 11090 Stemmons Frwy Dallas, TX 75220 (800)527-5057, (214)247-7744, (214)247-5307 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Tee Publishing Edwards Centre Regent Street Hinckley Leics. LE100BB England 0455-637173/616419 From England, they publish Engineering in Miniature and other magazines. Similar to Argus, they have clockmaking books as well. They state they are the world's only company specializing in back issues of Model Engineer. - Travers Tool Company, Inc. 128-15 26th Avenue P.O. Box 1550 Flushing, NY 11354-0108 (800) 221-0270, (718) 886-7200, (800) 722-0703 (FAX), (718) 886-7895 (FAX) Prints a 500+ page large catalog once per year, and also sales flyers. Very complete line of tooling for machinists, including micrometers, mills, drills, reamers, broaches, taps, collets, tool posts, lathe tools, grinding wheels and stones, files, gages, vices, indicators, precision steel pieces, glops and goos, books, and some power tools. $25.00 minimum order. Visa, MasterCard, American Express accepted. Replace, refund, or full credit within 60 days of purchase (buyer's choice). Prices are subject to change without notice. Experience with Travers has been good. They are less expensive than McMaster-Carr and other full-price dealers. They sell premium and no-name lines of many similar tools so that you only buy the "quality" that you need. Their performance on orders was once imperfect, but they stand behind their merchandise, so correcting the error was easy, fast, and painless. I have ordered from them many times, so "one minor error out of many" is a good grade. - Vigor, sold by FDJ 2221 Lee Road, Suite #1 Winter Park, FL 32789 (800) 323-6091 (orders) (407) 629-6906 (407) 645-0707 (FAX) (FDJ is the company name, and sells the Vigor line) Jeweler's tools, video tapes, books, retailing supplies, and many universal tools being targeted at jewelers. Tweezers, ring forms, molds, forges, files, small lathes, loupes, calipers, torches, solders and brazing material, mountings, etc. An informative catalog. Very wide selection, but prices seem very high. - Village Press P.O. Box 1810 2779 Aero Park Drive Traverse City, MI 49685 (800) 447-7367, (616) 946-3712 Publishers of Home Shop Machinist, Projects in Metal, and Live Steam. Some back issues available; older ones are available as parts of several book series. See the individual entries in the "magazines" question. They also publish other books such as "So You Want to Build a Live Steam Locomotive." - Wholesale Tool (Stu Friedberg's favorite!) PO Box 68 Warren, MI 48089-0068 12155 Stephen Drive Warren, MI 48089-3962 800-521-3420, 800-521-3661 (fax), 313-754-9270, 313-754-8652 (fax) Broader selection of hand tools, fewer large machines than IP&S. Fork lifts. No bulk metals, but tool steel, shim stock, threaded rod, etc. Vast selection of cutting tools and grinding wheels. Scattering of interesting surplus items. Definitely oriented toward professional users, not hobbyists. Full line distributors for most instrument makers. 500 page full line catalog twice a year. You have to order by 8 digit stock number, so copy carefully. :-) 6 locations, main site in Warren, MI. Most items at most locations, some items in Michigan only, very few at other locations only. Credit cards, COD's with some payment restrictions $25 minimum order The other locations: PO Box 481 Stoughton, MA 02072-0481 1234 Washington Street (Route 138) Stoughton, MA 02072-3345, 800-343-1008, 617-344-0338, 617-341-0617 (fax) PO Box 700 Brandon, FL 33509-0700 9212 Adamo Drive Tampa, FL 33619-2631 800-237-4689, 813-623-3099, 813-623-5816 (fax) PO Box 470952 Tulsa, OK 74147-0952 9909 East 55th Place Tulsa, OK 74146-6404 800-331-4075, 918-627-2240, 918-627-2044 (fax) PO Box 240965 Charlotte, NC 28224-0965 4200 Barringer Drive Charlotte, NC 28217-1512 800-438-3580, 704-527-4071, 704-523-7960 (fax) 8100 Pinemont Drive Houston, TX 77040-6522 800-231-4585, 713-895-7777, 713-895-8113 (fax) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!caen!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!pcies4.trl.OZ.AU!drew Tue Jan 4 21:32:44 EST 1994 Article: 3144 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!caen!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!pcies4.trl.OZ.AU!drew From: drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond) Subject: Re: finanicing, please read!!! Message-ID: Lines: 45 Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research References: <940101.51209.WALKERMM@delphi.com> <2g5ih4$itu@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 01:24:35 GMT In article <2g5ih4$itu@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) writes: >From: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) >Subject: Re: finanicing, please read!!! >Date: 2 Jan 1994 04:28:20 GMT > >In a previous article, WALKERMM@delphi.com () says: > >>This is probably a private subject or an unpopular subject, but hear goes. >>Lets start a descussion on different ways to finanice our shops,tool >>needs,project desigers. >>Ithink enphase should be given to those Ideas that are not lits start a factory >>in the bacement. >>It's not bad it's just that if you can do that your allreaddy their and a lot >>of us are to bussy to sweet over penny wages to built up from nothing. >>I presonally would like to find a respectable Bank that would give me a tool >>loan. >>I would need to securre the loan with an expencive tool that also has a very >>low deperecation rate(loan is for said tool) but no bank that I know dose that >>any more. >>Iv'e been buying my tools with production bonesses and tax refunds and >>overtime.I'm open to new Ideas or new twists on old ones. >>signed >>Chris Fuhr >>Po. 6143 >>Lyynnwood Wa. >>98036 >>Ph. no. (206)-771-2892 >> > > >Is this for real? >and I thought my spelling was bad.... > >-- >"Onward through the fog" > - Power-Hitter >bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu >mburlage@heartland.bradley.edu One of the best "engineer's" I have met can neither read nor write. He could fix any machine known- have it working before some of the clever- dick university educated egg-heads have figured out which end of the screw driver to hold. Drew. Telecom Australia Research Laboratories. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Tue Jan 4 21:32:45 EST 1994 Article: 3145 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Live steam angst-comments please Date: 4 Jan 1994 09:05:52 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 40 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2gbbhg$8uq@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk In article , gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: |> |> |> I'd appreciate some thoughts from you live steamers on this... |> |> A guy down the road has a RRSC Mogul for sale. Chassis is running on |> air, includes cab, domes, smokebox front, bell, tender frame and |> trucks. No boiler, but some parts are cut out. He's asking $3000. It |> belonged to his late father who was supposedly a machinist. I |> haven't |> seen it yet but am going down there Tuesday the fourth (it's 2 hrs. |> away). |> |> Is there anything special I should look for when evaluating the |> deal? |> I don't think there is much I can do on the spot to check the |> machine |> work except look for obvious fits and finish. |> As you say, look at the general quality of machining, how much rattle there is in the joints, etc. DONT FORGET - steam engines (or petrol/diesel) actually need a fair amount of play in connecting rods and axle boxes or they'll seize up at the first bump in the track. You are spared one anxiety as there is no boiler - second-hand boilers are a source of worry, unless you know their history. |> ___________________________________________________________________ |> Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu |> Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism |> CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Tue Jan 4 21:32:46 EST 1994 Article: 3146 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Message-ID: <1994Jan3.231309.1090@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 3 Jan 94 23:13:08 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 49 In article <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, ghuntres@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Gary huntress) writes: |> |>I've heard dozens of teachers and professors say that "There is no |>such thing as a stupid question". Well, I'm gonna test that theory |>right now! |> |>I don't really understand the basics of cutting external threads on |>a lathe. Everything that I've read here about lathe specs implies |>that lower RPM is better for threading, but I'm also |>(mis)remembering a rule of thumb that material rates at the cutter |>should be somwhere between 100-200 feet per minute for typical |>materials. But considering a 1" rod at 100 RPM, thats about 26 |>feet per minute. Aren't you hogging off too much material at too |>low a speed? Threads are cut in one pass aren't they? |> |>Gary "a metal working wannabe" Huntress |>ghuntres@nox.cs.du.edu |>huntress@npt.nuwc.navy.mil You are partially correct. Threading speeds do seem lower than would be required for other sorts of operations. However, most external (or internal!) threading done on a lathe is actually done in several passes. One of the big reasons you want slow speed is so you can disengage the carriage travel when you get to the end. Remember that you usually are traveling from the tailstock towards the headstock. If you do not disengage or shut down in some manner, the carriage will smash into the headstock, or your cutting tool will be broken by the chuck, or some other difficulty. If the lathe is whirring along at 1000 RPM you simply don't have enough time to disengage the half-nuts at the proper moment. (I was lucky once in that I only tore up a toothed drive belt, not a gear, when the carriage ran into the gear housing because I wasn't quick enough, and the setup didn't have much room for error). Some say that about 45 RPM is just right. My Grizzley 8" goes down to 200 RPM which is too fast to be comfortable. The work must include some sort of cut-out area to give you time to open the half-nuts and stop the carriage movement. Then you unwind the cross feed so the tool clears the work, run the carriage back towards the tailstock, run the tool in to where it was plus a few thousandths, wait for the proper mark on the threading dial, and re-engage the half-nuts to take another pass. Of course some unusual setups might be different, and there may be lathes that let you thread in the other direction. But the above is generally true as far as I know. (I can't remember if it is possible to turn a left-hand thread on "common" lathes). Jim From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john Tue Jan 4 21:32:47 EST 1994 Article: 3147 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john From: john@cirrus.com (John Wishneusky) Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Message-ID: <1994Jan4.162759.3609@cirrus.com> Sender: news@cirrus.com Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc. Fremont, California References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 16:27:59 GMT Lines: 53 In article <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> ghuntres@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Gary huntress) writes: > >I've heard dozens of teachers and professors say that "There is no >such thing as a stupid question". Well, I'm gonna test that theory >right now! > >I don't really understand the basics of cutting external threads on >a lathe. Everything that I've read here about lathe specs implies >that lower RPM is better for threading, but I'm also >(mis)remembering a rule of thumb that material rates at the cutter >should be somwhere between 100-200 feet per minute for typical >materials. But considering a 1" rod at 100 RPM, thats about 26 >feet per minute. Aren't you hogging off too much material at too >low a speed? Threads are cut in one pass aren't they? > > >Gary "a metal working wannabe" Huntress >ghuntres@nox.cs.du.edu >huntress@npt.nuwc.navy.mil In my experience, (community college courses attended mostly by young guys in the machinist trade) threads are usually cut with many passes each of several thousandths. You can take more at the start, less at the end as you creep up on the final dimension. The machinists who taught the courses recommended a flat-topped cutting tool (zero back and side rake) ground to the thread profile, carefully aligned to the lathe axis. This approach makes getting the thread profile right because the angle ground on the tool matches the thread profile because it's applied in a plane that passes through the thread's axis. I think it also decreases the cutter's efficiency, but what'd you rather have accurate threads or fast threads? The slow cutting speed comes about because you've got to be quick in disengaging the half-nut and backing out the cross slide (unless you like/want/accept a continuous groove at thread depth at the end of the thread) then you reach the end of the thread. Then you move the carriage back to start another pass, reset the cross-slide to zero and advance the compound the amount desired for the next cut and wait for the right time to engage the half-nut as indicated by the thread indicator. 100 rpm tests my reflexes adequately, particulary on large threads where many passes are required. It's not bad on the first few cuts because they're shallow and if I leave the half-nut engaged a little too long, the tool can handle extending the cut through a previously uncut region (unless I'm so close to a shoulder or the chuck that I'm going to crash the tool). On the final passes, if I don't stop at the right time, I'm asking the tool to hog a very heavy cut and it doesn't like that. All the above speaks to my experience cutting steel, in brass or aluminum heavier (perhaps full depth) cuts'd be easier. John From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!linus!linus.mitre.org!mwvm.mitre.org!M16302 Tue Jan 4 21:32:47 EST 1994 Article: 3148 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!linus!linus.mitre.org!mwvm.mitre.org!M16302 From: M16302@mwvm.mitre.org Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Working with magnesium Date: Tue, 04 Jan 94 12:04:50 EST Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102 Lines: 17 Message-ID: <16F34A9E2S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwvm.mitre.org I have some magnesium plates that are part of a bicycle shoe system. The Sid Genius shoes. You change plates for different types of cleats. The problem is I want the LOOK type cleats mounted further up that normal. If I drill in magnesium to put in the LOOK screw insets, what do I use for a bit? Is there a fire or enviro hazard? Can I epoxy the insets in?? Thanks in advance. Robert B. Shain EMAIL: RSHAIN @MITRE.ORG The MITRE Corporation Voice: (703)883-5592 Center for Intellignence & Special Programs FAX: (703)883-6991 Mailstop W955 7525 COLSHIRE DRIVE "MY OTHER MACHINE IS A CAR" McLean, VA. 22102 "My other car is a bike" "My other sport is ping pong" From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Tue Jan 4 21:32:48 EST 1994 Article: 3149 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: any machinist out there Message-ID: <1994Jan4.105548.8864@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 25 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: <1994Jan2.212100.29125@noao.edu> Date: 4 Jan 94 10:55:48 CST Neill Mills (mills@noao.edu) wrote: : ... The Instrument Shop here has a number of precision Tree mills, Hardinge : toolroom lathes, larger lathes, grinders, Horizonal borring mill, Sipp jig : bore, MAHO 1000 CNC, compleat welding shop, and more toys and tooling then : you have ever dreamed of. NOAO itself has mirror cutting and grinding : facilities, carpenter shop, print shop, photo shop, electronics shop, a lot : of computers (small to x-large)... : ... We are looking forward to hearing from you and other profesionals. Welcome Neill. I think you'll find a very wide range of skills and knowledge in this group - a lot of professional amateurs and I wouldn't be surprised if we don't have some amateur professionals too :-) Let me also be the first to say *ALRIGHT ALREADY, I'M JEALOUS* There, that feels better. *grin* Enjoy. Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!uncvm1.oit.unc.edu!UNCDWC Tue Jan 4 21:32:48 EST 1994 Article: 3150 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!uncvm1.oit.unc.edu!UNCDWC From: UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu (Doug Cutler) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Oil for old Myford ML7. Date: Tue, 04 Jan 94 16:31:02 EST Organization: University of North Carolina OIT-CS Lines: 13 Message-ID: <16F34E846.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: uncvm1.oit.unc.edu I have just returned from England where I found my Myford ML7 lathe in almost perfect condition after been in storage for some 30 years!!! As I now have a "Workshop Space" I am arranging to have it shipped over to the US. Of course I will need a new motor, my late father stole that and a few other odds and ends, but I will also need suitable lubrication for the drip feeders for the headstock bearings. The manual recomends Shell Vitria 27 oil ... any body out there know if this is available in the US in "small" quantities or what is a good substitute? Doug. Cutler Office of Information Technology, VM Systems Programmer University of North Carolina. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!netsys!pagesat.net!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen Tue Jan 4 21:32:49 EST 1994 Article: 3151 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!netsys!pagesat.net!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading In-Reply-To: Gregory P. Widin's message of Mon, 3 Jan 94 18: 30:52 GMT Message-ID: Sender: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan3.183052.23594@mmm.mmm.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 21:16:58 GMT Lines: 47 >>>>> "Greg" == Gregory P Widin writes: Greg> Stupid Question: Threading Greg> In article Greg> <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Gary Greg> huntress, ghuntres@nyx10.cs.du.edu writes: >> Aren't you hogging off too much material at too >> low a speed? Threads are cut in one pass >> aren't they? Greg> Threads are emphatically _not_ cut on one pass, Greg> at least on my lathe. In fact, it's often Greg> appropriate to take a second pass at no Greg> additional infeed in order to work out spring in Greg> the workpiece, especially if it's slender and/or Greg> cut without tailstock support. In gunsmithing, we typically will make 30 to 100 passes in cutting threads depending on the thread pitch and diameter, material, etc. Slow speeds are used because it is easier to stop the travel when the lathe is going slowly. We always put the lathe in back gear to slow it down to slowest speed possible for thread cutting. You don't hog off too much material at too slow a speed because you take maybe only a .005" deep cut in aluminum or brass and .0025" in SS or other hard metals per pass. When you get down to the last few passes, you want to only take off .001" or less and then make several passes with no additional infeed travel, and when the threads finally begin to fit, then you rub them with white chalk and cutting oil thoroughly and run the cutter over them again without any additional infeed, thereby polishing them. I don't know about the precision you are attempting to achieve, but typically we attempt to achieve zero free play and so smooth that it feels like you have a large amount of free play. I have made threads which you could not rock the nut on the shaft at all and still you could spin it with your finger and have it travel several inches up the shaft before stopping. This is not to brag, but merely to put in perspective why I advocate so many shallow passes. If you don't care about this kind of accuracy, water down my instructions to where they are appropriate to your situation. -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Tue Jan 4 21:32:50 EST 1994 Article: 3152 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan4.162759.3609@cirrus.com> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 17 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 22:37:45 +0000 Message-ID: <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <1994Jan4.162759.3609@cirrus.com> john@cirrus.com "John Wishneusky" writes: > (unless you > like/want/accept a continuous groove at thread depth at the end of the > thread) then you reach the end of the thread. This is usually regarded as a Good Thing anyway. It makes cutting the thread easier, as stopping the leadscrew travel becomes less critical. It also makes it possible to screw a threaded part right down to the shoulder. In the UK, a popular gadget for DIY toolmakers to make is a quick-retract toolholder. A big lever pulls the tool out of the cut, so as to let you rack the slide back. When you put the lever back, the tool returns to exactly the same cut depth. The cross slide is now only used to increase the cut depth. They're good gadgets for heavy cutting, as they certainly speed things up. Do you have these things in the US ? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Tue Jan 4 21:32:51 EST 1994 Article: 3153 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Working with magnesium References: <16F34A9E2S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 16 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 22:42:41 +0000 Message-ID: <757723361snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk Magnesium is easy to work with. Use normal drills, and tool angles / cut speeds as for soft aluminium alloys. There isn't a fire hazard with bulk Mg, but there is with fine swarf. Unless you're grinding it, it won't be pyrophoric but I would sweep the machine clean afterwards. Take the swarf outside and burn it if you want to get rid of it - apart from the heat & bright light, there is no chemical hazard. Mg is pretty soft, and won't take most thread forms. A coarse Whitworth or UNC would survive, but for anything else I'd use an epoxied insert. -- _ Andy Dingley / ) ' ,_ _, / _ ) _/_ Codesmiths of Newcastle /_ / / / / (_) /_) (_) /_ dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (_) +44 091 230 1695 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!uniwa!nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au!cstone Wed Jan 5 12:12:23 EST 1994 Article: 3154 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!uniwa!nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au!cstone From: cstone@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au (Charlie Stone 4915162) Subject: Re: Oil for old Myford ML7. Organization: Network Computer Centre, Telecom, Perth Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 02:48:37 GMT Message-ID: <1994Jan5.024837.7540@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au> References: <16F34E846.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> Lines: 37 In article <16F34E846.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu (Doug Cutler) writes: > > I have just returned from England where I found my Myford ML7 lathe >in almost perfect condition after been in storage for some 30 years!!! >As I now have a "Workshop Space" I am arranging to have it shipped over >to the US. Of course I will need a new motor, my late father stole that >and a few other odds and ends, but I will also need suitable lubrication >for the drip feeders for the headstock bearings. The manual recomends >Shell Vitria 27 oil ... any body out there know if this is available in >the US in "small" quantities or what is a good substitute? > > Doug. Cutler Office of Information Technology, > VM Systems Programmer University of North Carolina. Shell Oil have changed the names of their oils a few times over the years. I used to use Vitrea 27 on my Myford Super 7 until they changed the name to Tellus 27 and later to Tellus 46. Don't ask me to explain, but I was told that they changed the number to reflect some international standard. What you need to use is Tellus 46 (unless they have changed the name again since I bought my last gallon). It is a fairly thin oil normally used for hydraulic applications. Don't fall into the trap of using heavier oils (like Automotive engine oils) in the Myford oil feeders, as they dont pass through the oilways and hence don't lubricate all that well. Charlie Stone. : cstone@netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au : :...........................................................................: : Charlie Stone. : A Control Line modeller who has : : Perth, Western Australia. : retired from flying full scale Gliders,: : : prefers to use Imperial measurement, : : : and likes the Australian flag as it is : :..................................:........................................: From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!athena.cs.uga.edu!phoenix.cs.uga.edu!dhudgins Wed Jan 5 12:12:25 EST 1994 Article: 3155 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!athena.cs.uga.edu!phoenix.cs.uga.edu!dhudgins From: dhudgins@phoenix.cs.uga.edu (David Keith Hudgins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Old saw mill blades Date: 5 Jan 1994 05:10:22 GMT Organization: University of Georgia, Athens Lines: 11 Message-ID: <2gdi3u$n6i@athena.cs.uga.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: phoenix.cs.uga.edu I've got some old (Well, used, anyway) mill saw blades from Georgia Pacific that my father got me for making knife blades with. I'm extremely new to this, and I was wondering if they would be worth using. They have a slight bluish tinge to them, and I was curious... were they heat-treated (My dad says they were, and not to heat treat them again) or was that from the frictional heat of the milling?And could anyone suggest processes on grinding these down? I've got a tiny tabetop Dremel belt sander, 1"x30" b elts... and a few files, ant that's it. Thanks in advance. -Keith Hudgins dhudgins@phoenix.cs.uga.edu C C C C dhudgins@phoenix From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Wed Jan 5 12:12:27 EST 1994 Article: 3156 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Working with magnesium Date: 5 Jan 1994 07:05:51 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2gdosfINN3ab@lynx.unm.edu> References: <16F34A9E2S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> <757723361snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: algodones.unm.edu > There isn't a fire hazard with bulk Mg, but there is with fine swarf. Unless Well... I HAVE seen a magnesium fire started from the chips that came off of a casting while it was still on the machine. As long as you do not allow the chips to collect(build up), or flamables close by, there is really not a big problem just don't get TO excited. If you are going to do any heave milling or lots of drilling stop periodically and clean your work area. > you're grinding it, it won't be pyrophoric but I would sweep the machine > clean afterwards. Take the swarf outside and burn it if you want to get rid > of it - apart from the heat & bright light, there is no chemical hazard. > Mg is pretty soft, and won't take most thread forms. A coarse Whitworth or > UNC would survive, but for anything else I'd use an epoxied insert. point well made. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!mmm.mmm.com!schwartz Wed Jan 5 12:12:30 EST 1994 Article: 3157 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!mmm.mmm.com!schwartz From: Gregory P. Widin Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.2 Message-ID: <1994Jan5.135704.1759@mmm.mmm.com> X-XXMessage-ID: Sender: schwartz@mmm.mmm.com (William H. Schwartz) Organization: 3M References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan4.162759.3609@cirrus.com> <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 94 13:57:04 GMT X-XXDate: Wed, 5 Jan 94 13:57:03 GMT Lines: 27 In article <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Andy Dingley, dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk writes: >In the UK, a popular gadget for DIY toolmakers to make is a quick-retract >toolholder. >Do you have these things in the US ? The only design I know of for a retracting toolholder is the Geo Thomas version published in Model Engineer, and in GHT's new book from Tee Publishing. GHT also included a small unit that accomplishes the same function which can fit in the slot of a tool post (block style, not the usual American lantern tool post). I have never seen either in the U.S. Greg Greg Widin 3M Hardgoods and Electronics Support Division gpwidin@mmm.com Building 260-6A-08 (612) 736-6708 St. Paul, MN 55144 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Wed Jan 5 12:12:31 EST 1994 Article: 3158 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Oil for old Myford ML7. References: <16F34E846.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 25 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 14:40:11 +0000 Message-ID: <757780811snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <16F34E846.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu "Doug Cutler" writes: > I have just returned from England where I found my Myford ML7 lathe > in almost perfect condition after been in storage for some 30 years!!! Why on earth would anyone want to ship an ML7 across the pond ? I trust you're also having the necessary tweed jacket, trilby hat, pipe and cardigan shipped over as well 8-) I really dislike Myfords, pretty uninspiring machine tools with nasty toolposts, that are too small for anything interesting and vastly overpriced. They're only popular because the Duffers that write Model Engineer all rave on about them. That said, I have a Myford too. An ML2 thats older (1928) than my father ! I hardly ever use it, as it's too small for anything other than model making. Still, the big Colchester should be returning next week 8-) Use any old gloop in the headstock oilers. Try your local machine tool supplier and see what they recommend. Vitria is now called Tellus BTW. The ML7 has very simple bearings and no quick change box, so it isn't at all fussy about what you use. So long as it's pretty thin, it will work. I've even seen one that ran on ATF for years with no ill effects. _ Andy Dingley / ) ' ,_ _, / _ ) _/_ Codesmiths of Newcastle /_ / / / / (_) /_) (_) /_ dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (_) +44 091 230 1695 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!dunix.drake.edu!acad.drake.edu!rtl002 Wed Jan 5 12:12:33 EST 1994 Article: 3159 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!dunix.drake.edu!acad.drake.edu!rtl002 From: rtl002@acad.drake.edu Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Message-ID: <1994Jan5.092851.1@acad.drake.edu> Lines: 67 Sender: news@dunix.drake.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: acad.drake.edu Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan3.183052.23594@mmm.mmm.com> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 15:28:51 GMT In article , hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: >>>>>> "Greg" == Gregory P Widin writes: > > Greg> Stupid Question: Threading > Greg> In article > Greg> <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Gary > Greg> huntress, ghuntres@nyx10.cs.du.edu writes: > >>> Aren't you hogging off too much material at too >>> low a speed? Threads are cut in one pass >>> aren't they? > > Greg> Threads are emphatically _not_ cut on one pass, > Greg> at least on my lathe. In fact, it's often > Greg> appropriate to take a second pass at no > Greg> additional infeed in order to work out spring in > Greg> the workpiece, especially if it's slender and/or > Greg> cut without tailstock support. > > In gunsmithing, we typically will make 30 to 100 passes in cutting > threads depending on the thread pitch and diameter, material, etc. seems like quite a few passes what pitch and dia are you talking > Slow speeds are used because it is easier to stop the travel when the > lathe is going slowly. We always put the lathe in back gear to slow > it down to slowest speed possible for thread cutting. You don't hog > off too much material at too slow a speed because you take maybe only > a .005" deep cut in aluminum or brass and .0025" in SS or other hard > metals per pass. When you get down to the last few passes, you want > to only take off .001" or less and then make several passes with no > additional infeed travel, and when the threads finally begin to fit, > then you rub them with white chalk and cutting oil thoroughly and run > the cutter over them again without any additional infeed, thereby > polishing them. When cutting thread there are a few things to keep in mind to make it easier that I did not see mentioned or that I missed. The cross slideshould be offset 29.5 degrees for a 60 tool instead of going strait into the material. Reason being that it eliminated stress and chatter of the tool bit. As you feed in on this angle most of the material is taken off at the leading edge of the tool bit and only a fraction at the trailing edge. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ work tool /\ \ 29 | degrees \ | angle of \ | cross slide \ | \| Invest in a set of thread measuring gauges I forgot the proper name but it is a set of guage pins in sets of three ranging in sizes from about .020 to .125. the three pins used with a mike and the chart supplied will allow you to acurately measure threads. When possible have a relief at the end of the treads. /\/\/\/\/\___/-- This allows space for you to disengage the halfnut | Also if properly radiused it does not weaken the peice \/\/\/\/\/---\__ Cuts can be heavy at first but as you get deeper take shallower cuts Some stuff deleted > -- > Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com > Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net > Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!giao Wed Jan 5 12:12:35 EST 1994 Article: 3160 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!giao From: giao@netcom.com (John Martin) Subject: Teaching Metalwork Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 15:31:29 GMT Lines: 17 I am a Metals / Welding teacher at the Sr HS level. Sort of a dying breed out here in Calif. I'm always interested in talking shop. I just got a Dynapath System 10 CNC Mill donated to our school (first CNC system). This is not state of the art but it is a start for our kids and me. Boy am I having trouble learning how to program it. Any ideas on some good programing books. Anybody know of some ideas reguarding simple projects that students might have fun doing while learning how to program? keep it simple please, your talking to a beginner when it comes to programming! --Dennis Martin giao@netcom.com -- John Martin giao@netcom.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!ub!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Wed Jan 5 12:12:38 EST 1994 Article: 3161 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!ub!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Oil for old Myford ML7. Message-ID: <1994Jan5.082154.1092@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 5 Jan 94 08:21:54 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) References: <16F34E846.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 5 MSC sells a light duty spindle oil listed as ISO 27 grade, which might be close enough to 27. Their part number 00254201, $13.85 (US) per gallon. (800) 645-7270. Hope this helps! Jim From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!ugle.unit.no!ole Wed Jan 5 12:12:41 EST 1994 Article: 3162 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!ugle.unit.no!ole From: ole@delab.sintef.no (Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Oil for old Myford ML7. Date: 5 Jan 94 17:02:50 Organization: SINTEF DELAB, Trondheim, Norway. Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <16F34E846.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> <757780811snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: tosca.er.sintef.no In-reply-to: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk's message of Wed, 5 Jan 1994 14:40:11 +0000 In article <757780811snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) writes: Why on earth would anyone want to ship an ML7 across the pond ? I trust you're also having the necessary tweed jacket, trilby hat, pipe and cardigan shipped over as well 8-) I really dislike Myfords, pretty uninspiring machine tools with nasty toolposts, that are too small for anything interesting and vastly overpriced. They're only popular because the Duffers that write Model Engineer all rave on about them. Yes, I agree that they are pricey. But are there better alternatives around for people like me, who needs a lathe like the long bed ML7, perhaps with a larger swing and spindle hole? The Emco Compact 10 comes to mind, but is even more expensive than the Myford, especially the accessories. Any suggestions are welcome. Btw., I looked up both Hardinge companies which have been discussed here before. The local "Compass" register states that Hardinge Machine Tools Ltd in Exeter is wholly owned by Hardinge Brothers Inc of Elmira, NY. -- Ole-Hj. Kristensen ****************************************************************************** * You cannot consistently believe this sentence. ****************************************************************************** From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph Wed Jan 5 12:12:43 EST 1994 Article: 3163 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph From: ralph@astolastro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) Subject: Re: Gas fire forge for home ???? Message-ID: <1994Jan5.161843.16003@nomina.lu.se> Sender: ralph@astol (Ralph Snel) Nntp-Posting-Host: nastol.astro.lu.se Organization: Lund Observatory References: <2fv4jf$g37@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca> <1993Dec30.193705.22635@sol.cs.wmich.edu> <2g37a0INN61v@lynx.unm.edu> <2g9tcmINNg15@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 16:18:43 GMT Lines: 20 In article <2g9tcmINNg15@lynx.unm.edu>, ebo@algodones.unm.edu () writes: > > > Do you know of any source for wrought iron? I understand that it isn't > > made in the US anymore. > > not over the counter (one man's drugs is another... 8-) > > The only foundry that I had herd of that still makes it is out of > Sweeden (so I'm told). But I'm really not sure that that is so. > Most people just use "mild steel" 1018 - 1020. > > > EBo -- Where? Where? Where? For once I'm in the right spot! If you can find out anything more you will make a number of people (including myself) very happy! Ralph ralph@astro.lu.se (guess what the 'se' stands for... :) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.aero.org!dgolber Wed Jan 5 12:12:44 EST 1994 Article: 3164 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.aero.org!dgolber From: dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Date: 5 Jan 1994 16:49:37 GMT Organization: The Aerospace Corporation Lines: 16 Message-ID: <2ger31$44f@news.aero.org> References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan4.162759.3609@cirrus.com> <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: pagoda.aero.org In article <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk writes: > >In the UK, a popular gadget for DIY toolmakers to make is a quick-retract >toolholder. A big lever pulls the tool out of the cut, so as to let you rack >the slide back. When you put the lever back, the tool returns to exactly the >same cut depth. The cross slide is now only used to increase the cut depth. >They're good gadgets for heavy cutting, as they certainly speed things up. >Do you have these things in the US ? Many years ago, I was permitted to use a Hardinge tool-room lathe (wedge bed ... Powerful, silent and smooth as silk. Are there women like this lathe?) It had this kind of gadget for threading. Dave Golber From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!barrnet.net!parc!richley Wed Jan 5 21:10:13 EST 1994 Article: 3165 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!barrnet.net!parc!richley From: richley@parc.xerox.com (Ed Richley) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Date: 5 Jan 1994 18:00:15 GMT Organization: Xerox Palo Alto Research Center Lines: 14 Message-ID: <2gev7f$gdd@news.parc.xerox.com> References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan4.162759.3609@cirrus.com> <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: deneb.parc.xerox.com All of our Hardinge HLV's here at work have a retracting mechanism built into the compound rest. You just pull this little lever, and out comes the tool (except on the one where the lever is missing...). Also, the 29 degree setover is preferable (or so I have read) for threading so that the non-cutting side of the tool actually does a little clean-up work to finish the back side of the thread. That way, the final cut is really a form cut, instead of a form cut on the left side, and a bunch of little jaggy steps on the right side. Ed Richley richley@parc.xerox.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!src.honeywell.com!vestal Wed Jan 5 21:10:14 EST 1994 Article: 3166 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!src.honeywell.com!vestal From: vestal@src.honeywell.com (Steve Vestal) Subject: Hi-resistance material Message-ID: <1994Jan5.184729.4973@src.honeywell.com> Sender: news@src.honeywell.com (News interface) Nntp-Posting-Host: sluggish.src.honeywell.com Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 18:47:29 GMT Lines: 33 This is a materials question. I'm looking for rods in the 1/8" to 1/4" diameter range that are reasonably strong and rigid yet have a non-negligible electrical resistance. The project involves sensing the position of a conductive carriage that slides along a pair of such rods with errors of a few mm. I was hoping to sense the position of the carriage by looking at the resistance between the ends of the rods (the further the carriage, the higher the resistance). The practical problem with this is that a quick experiment indicated the sliding contact resistance of the carriage can be as much as a few ohms and is very noisy (i.e. varies from very small to a few ohms as it slides). However, a quick computation shows that even relatively high-resistance metals like stainless or ni-cad will have resistances below 10^-5 or 10^-6 ohms/cm at these diameters (I forget the exact numbers, but the point is it's small). I've already considered packing thin-walled tubing with some sort of insulating filler to add strength, but the numbers are still pretty low. Oven heating elements are coated with an insulating ceramic, plus I would estimate the total end-to-end resistance is also still somewhat low (a 1KW element at 100V DC would need 10 amps, which would be 10 ohms end-to-end resistance, and I would imagine oven elements output more than 1KW of heat). Does anyone know of a material that is reasonably strong and rigid and available and affordable that would have resistances of at least a few ohms/cm of length (which would be needed to get sub-cm position accuracies). If it doesn't come smooth and straight, it would also need to be machineable. Please reply by email, as my frequency of reading this newsgroup often falls below the rate at which our site flushes old messages :-( Steve Vestal Mail: Honeywell Technology Center, 3660 Technology Drive, Minneapolis MN 55418 Phone: (612) 951-7049 Internet: vestal@src.honeywell.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm Wed Jan 5 21:10:15 EST 1994 Article: 3167 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm From: rogerm@fc.hp.com (Roger Mitchell) Subject: Re: Live steam angst-comments please Sender: news@fc.hp.com (news daemon) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 19:50:45 GMT References: <2gbbhg$8uq@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> Nntp-Posting-Host: ux0046.fc.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.4] Lines: 23 As far as boiler making goes, there is a good book, Model Boilers and Boiler Making, which goes rather deeply into the subject. For larger 1.5 inch scale locomotives a welded steel boiler would likely be best, but for smaller 1.5 inch scale and smaller scales the silver soldered copper boiler is the best bet and also the longest lasting. If the locomotive uses "D" or slide valves the best bet is to use saturated steam directly from the boiler, on the other hand if it uses piston or spool valves, superheating is recommended. There is a company in Durango, Colorado called Mamouth Boiler Works (They bought out Little Engines.) which makes model boilers, but from what I have seen and a friend of mine discovered they are both expensive and there workmanship leaves allot to be desired. Steve Johnson had them build a boiler for his 1.5 inch scale 0-4-0 from copper. It took them 2 years to make it and it cost him over $2000 up front to have it made. It cost about the same amount for Alex Schneider and my self to build the boiler our selves from ASME certified material on our 6 inch to the foot scale, 18 inch gauge 2-6-2. Roger Mitchell President and Master Mechanic Ft. Collins Municipal Railway Co-builder: Timnath Northwestern Railway Ham Radio N0MCR Miniature Colorado Railway From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john Wed Jan 5 21:10:16 EST 1994 Article: 3168 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john From: john@cirrus.com (John Wishneusky) Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Message-ID: <1994Jan5.184440.27992@cirrus.com> Sender: news@cirrus.com Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc. Fremont, California References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan4.162759.3609@cirrus.com> <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 18:44:40 GMT Lines: 29 In article <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk writes: >In article <1994Jan4.162759.3609@cirrus.com> > john@cirrus.com "John Wishneusky" writes: > >> (unless you >> like/want/accept a continuous groove at thread depth at the end of the >> thread) then you reach the end of the thread. > >This is usually regarded as a Good Thing anyway. It makes cutting the thread >easier, as stopping the leadscrew travel becomes less critical. It also makes >it possible to screw a threaded part right down to the shoulder. The machinist who taught the course when I learned single-point threading implied it was a matter of pride to be able to make a nicely finished thread without relying on a groove at the end of the thread, though he might have been pulling our legs a bit. > >In the UK, a popular gadget for DIY toolmakers to make is a quick-retract >toolholder. A big lever pulls the tool out of the cut, so as to let you rack >the slide back. When you put the lever back, the tool returns to exactly the >same cut depth. The cross slide is now only used to increase the cut depth. >They're good gadgets for heavy cutting, as they certainly speed things up. >Do you have these things in the US ? I haven't seen one of these, it sounds convenient. Any chance it originated for a turret lathe without a compound on the cross-slide? John From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Wed Jan 5 21:10:16 EST 1994 Article: 3169 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Iron Availability? Date: 5 Jan 1994 20:19:13 GMT Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2gf7c1$mll@tymix.Tymnet.COM> References: Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com The only time that wrought iron is an advantage is in forge-welding (or if you need corrosion resistance -- such as for an anchor). For general forging, "hot-rolled" (black) iron/steel is cheaper than "cold-rolled" (bright) steel, and works jsut as well unless you need special alloys. Real wrought iron probably became unavailable in the '20s, but you **MIGHT** be able to find some as "scrap" (although in the last 70 years a lot of that has already been scavangered) -- old barrel and tub (water tanks) were often WI, as were architectural WI and some construction uses (do you know of a 100 year old bridge you can "salvage"?) JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!csd.unb.ca!peinet.pe.ca!peinet.pe.ca!not-for-mail Wed Jan 5 21:10:18 EST 1994 Article: 3170 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!csd.unb.ca!peinet.pe.ca!peinet.pe.ca!not-for-mail From: rukavina@bud.peinet.pe.ca (Peter L. Rukavina) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc,rec.crafts.textiles,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,alt.internet.services,rec.crafts.quilting Subject: I have lots of supplier information on file: HELP! Followup-To: rec.crafts.misc Date: 5 Jan 1994 15:24:32 -0400 Organization: PEI Crafts Council, Charlottetown, Canada Lines: 55 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2gf45g$7kf@bud.peinet.pe.ca> Reply-To: suggest@crafts-council.pe.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: bud.peinet.pe.ca Keywords: crafts supplies Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.misc:2733 rec.crafts.textiles:6698 rec.crafts.metalworking:3170 rec.woodworking:29673 alt.internet.services:13793 rec.crafts.quilting:1064 For the past six months I have been posting occasional messages to this and other newsgroups offering to search our database of crafts suppliers for those looking for particular materials, tools, equipment or services. Because my organization -- the PEI Crafts Council -- only has indirect access to the Internet, I've only been able to offer this information through this indirect e-mail only system. To date I have received 34 requests. I am the first to admit that this indirect email service isn't exactly the easiest way to use an information resource (somewhat like being able to only read books by having librarians quote passges over the telephone, I imagine). That said, we do have a pretty neat collection of information here: contact information for 5,000-odd suppliers across North America, catalogs on hand for about 600 of these, each of which is fully indexed by product and service. The database covers all crafts media -- from Candle Making to Weaving to Scrimshaw. I'm looking for ways to make this information more accessible to a broader audience, but I am limited by the meagre budget I have available to me and the limited resources of our not-for-profit organization. I've investigated and am in the process of seeking funding for a direct telnet- accessible system which would allow any Internet-connected user to search the database themselves, without any intervention by me. This would require the purchase of some additional hardware and software and a more expensive network connection. We have applied to CANARIE Inc. (custodians of Canada's new public information highway) for funding and are awaiting their decision. I'm currently investigating publishing our information on CD-ROM, in printed form, or on floppy disk as well as offering the entire information base to an existing online system for inclusion in their services (none of these has progressed very far to date, largely because of either high up-front costs or logistics; I welcome suggestions!). I'd like to hear what others think. Do I, indeed, have a valuable information resource, or is this sort of information freely available elsewhere? How can you suggest that I spread this information around? Would you be willing to pay for such information? Can you offer other suggestions that would allows us to keep access free while still supporting the service? I welcome any comments. Send email to suggest@crafts-council.pe.ca Thanks! NB: Those interested in having me search the database for them are welcome to send email to address info@crafts-council.pe.ca with a description of what it is you are looking for... -- -- I am Peter Rukavina at the PEI Crafts Council, Charlottetown, PEI, Canada -- Telephone at work (902) 566-1584, fax (902) 628-8740, at home (902) 368-2871 Electronic mail to peter@crafts-council.pe.ca or rukavina@peinet.pe.ca >> I COLLECT INFORMATION ON CRAFTS INDUSTRY SUPPLIERS. KNOW ANY? LET ME KNOW! << From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!hippo.ru.ac.za!ccfj Wed Jan 5 21:10:19 EST 1994 Article: 3171 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!hippo.ru.ac.za!ccfj From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod) Subject: Re: Working with magnesium Message-ID: Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa References: <16F34A9E2S85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> <757723361snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 20:55:52 GMT Lines: 13 In <757723361snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) writes: >Magnesium is easy to work with. Use normal drills, and tool angles / cut >speeds as for soft aluminium alloys. ... and make sure your tools are sharp and are actually cutting the metal rather than scraping it. Nothing like a blunt drill or cutter to build up a bit of undesirable heat. -- F.F. Jacot Guillarmod PO Box 94 \ | ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za Computing Centre Grahamstown 6140 \ / Fax: +27 461 25049 Rhodes University South Africa ;___*/ Phone: +27 461 318284 The views expressed above are not necessarily those of Rhodes University From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!darkstar Wed Jan 5 21:10:20 EST 1994 Article: 3172 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!darkstar From: darkstar@u.washington.edu (Alden Hackmann) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Book called Projects 3, plastic injection molding Date: 6 Jan 1994 00:41:25 GMT Organization: University of Washington Lines: 14 Message-ID: <2gfmnl$m27@news.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu I saw an ad in HSM for a set of books called Projects 1-5 published by Village Press. Projects 3 includes how to make a plastic injection molding machine. Our business needs (at some future point) small runs of custom plastic parts, so this seems very appealing. So: Can anyone recommend (or not!) this book? Is building such a machine a practical thing, or is this a hobbyist version? What other sources might you recommend for an introduction to plastic injection molding? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!dsea!frank Wed Jan 5 21:10:21 EST 1994 Article: 3173 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!dsea!frank From: frank@dsea.com (Frank Evan Perdicaro) Subject: LA area barter items ( want welding ) Message-ID: <1994Jan5.232110.28969@dsea.com> Organization: Dainippon Screen Engineering of America, Inc. Date: Wed, 5 Jan 1994 23:21:10 GMT Lines: 26 We are haveing a bit of a throw-out here, and there are a few things that somebody might want. You must act QUICKLY on this stuff. There are two scanner beds taking up space. These are good quality steel tables, about 20" by 60" by 30" and weighing about 500 pounds. Made for both strength and precision, the top is ground flat. Could be $free. There is also a good sized surface plate, about 24" by 36" on a stand. There are some solid steel, likely mild steel, tubes about a meter by 10 cm. Headed for the trash. All sorts of other stuff, too. I mention this stuff because I have a need for some light welding and bending, and I could save some of this stuff if somebody would be interested in trading. I have a fork lift if you have a truck. Call me with your ideas. -- Frank Evan Perdicaro Dainippon Screen Engineering of America Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today. 3700 Segerstrom Ave inhouse: frank@rebel, x210 Santa Ana CA 92704 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!gumby!wmu-coyote!Dale Sat Jan 8 19:29:57 EST 1994 Article: 3174 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!gumby!wmu-coyote!Dale From: Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Dale Gee) Subject: Re: Iron Availability? Message-ID: <1994Jan6.064942.27883@sol.cs.wmich.edu> Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept. References: <2gf7c1$mll@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 06:49:42 GMT Lines: 24 In article <2gf7c1$mll@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@Tymnet.COM writes: >The only time that wrought iron is an advantage is in forge-welding (or if >you need corrosion resistance -- such as for an anchor). For general forging, >"hot-rolled" (black) iron/steel is cheaper than "cold-rolled" (bright) steel, >and works jsut as well unless you need special alloys. > >Real wrought iron probably became unavailable in the '20s, but you **MIGHT** >be able to find some as "scrap" (although in the last 70 years a lot of that >has already been scavangered) -- old barrel and tub (water tanks) were often >WI, as were architectural WI and some construction uses (do you know of a >100 year old bridge you can "salvage"?) > >JK > One source I was told of was pre WI farm machinery. I have not personally checked this out. But while deer hunting this fall I came across the mother lode of junked pre WI farm machinery. Maybe I will go back and see what I can scrap out:) Dale From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!mmm.mmm.com!schwartz Sat Jan 8 19:29:57 EST 1994 Article: 3175 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!mmm.mmm.com!schwartz From: Gregory P. Widin Subject: Geo. H. Thomas (threading and more) X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.2 Message-ID: <1994Jan6.143519.29634@mmm.mmm.com> X-XXMessage-ID: Sender: schwartz@mmm.mmm.com (William H. Schwartz) Organization: 3M Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 14:35:19 GMT X-XXDate: Thu, 6 Jan 94 14:35:03 GMT Lines: 51 In the thread on threading, I mentioned the work of George H. Thomas (GHT). I got some queries about his books, so I thought the information might be interesting to others in r.c.m. The Model Engineers Workshop Manual Geo. H. Thomas Tee Publishing ISBN 1-85761-000-2 published 1992, 28 chapters 303 pp. Topics: setting up; parting off; boring; ball handles; retracting toolholders; screwcutting; tapers, etc. etc. Each topic includes many details of technique beyond just the projects or equipment to be constructed. Thomas was a master, and the photos of his work show all of us the kind of craftsmanship we can aspire to. As you may guess from all this, I highly recommend this book. It is essentially a reprint of GHT's works in Model Engineer from the late 70s and early 80s, with additions and corrections, but is valuable to have even if you read the articles originally in ME. prices: Tee Publishing (L sterling) 19.95 + 1.30 post overseas post 20% to maximum of 2.95 (regardless of how many items) Camden (L sterling) 21.90 incl post in UK, overseas add 10 percent Both accept Visa and Mastercard(Access) Available from: Tee Publishing Edwards Centre Regent St Hinckley, Leics. LE10 0BB England Tel 0455 637173/616419 or Camden Miniature Steam Services 13 High Street Rode, Bath BA3 6UB England phone (0373) 830151 I have ordered with satisfaction from both of these sources in the past, and have been satisfied with the service and speed of response, considering that the shipping is surface. They will ship air at an additional charge, but you'd have to contact them to find out about this. Also, for those of you who find that GHT's stuff is so good you must have more (and that should be everyone), Tee Publishing has also reprinted GHT's "Dividing and Graduating" (168 pp, L 11.95 + 1.30 post) This describes a variety of dividing methods and appliances including the "Versatile Dividing Head." Again, excellent reading and lots of information about workshop technique incidental to describing construction of the dividing accessories. Greg Widin 3M Hardgoods and Electronics Support Division gpwidin@mmm.com Building 260-6A-08 (612) 736-6708 St. Paul, MN 55144 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!sab Sat Jan 8 19:29:58 EST 1994 Article: 3176 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!sab From: sab@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Iron Availability? Message-ID: <1994Jan6.074751.3428@tower> Date: 6 Jan 94 07:47:51 -0500 References: <2gf7c1$mll@tymix.Tymnet.COM> <1994Jan6.064942.27883@sol.cs.wmich.edu> Lines: 23 In article <1994Jan6.064942.27883@sol.cs.wmich.edu>, Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Dale Gee) writes: > In article <2gf7c1$mll@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@Tymnet.COM writes: >>The only time that wrought iron is an advantage is in forge-welding (or if >>you need corrosion resistance -- such as for an anchor). For general forging, >>"hot-rolled" (black) iron/steel is cheaper than "cold-rolled" (bright) steel, >>and works jsut as well unless you need special alloys. > One source I was told of was pre WI farm machinery. I have not personally > checked this out. But while deer hunting this fall I came across the > mother lode of junked pre WI farm machinery. Maybe I will go back > and see what I can scrap out:) > > > Dale > > Wrought Iron (prehaps due to the higher working temperatures) also shapes a bit better than mild steel. Take a look at Yellin's stuff sometime. I acquired 0.5 tons of wrought iron from an old jail that was being scrapped. Convenient bars of 1.5" diameter and 6' long - convenient, of course, it you have a power hammer. :-) Steve Bloom (IronFlower Forge) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!bnr.co.uk!bnrgate!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user Sat Jan 8 19:29:59 EST 1994 Article: 3177 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!bnr.co.uk!bnrgate!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user From: wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) Subject: Re: Book called Projects 3, plastic injection molding Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Sender: news@bnr.ca (usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: 47.220.4.72 Organization: Bell Northern Research References: <2gfmnl$m27@news.u.washington.edu> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 14:49:28 GMT Lines: 21 In article <2gfmnl$m27@news.u.washington.edu>, darkstar@u.washington.edu (Alden Hackmann) wrote: > > I saw an ad in HSM for a set of books called Projects 1-5 published by > Village Press. Projects 3 > includes how to make a plastic injection molding machine. Our business > needs (at some future point) small runs of custom plastic parts, so this > seems very appealing. So: > > Can anyone recommend (or not!) this book? Is building such a machine a > practical thing, or is this a hobbyist version? > > What other sources might you recommend for an introduction to plastic > injection molding? > > I too am interested in this topic. Please post responses to the newsgroup. Bill Webster (WWEBSTER@BNR.CA) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh130!iainw Sat Jan 8 19:29:59 EST 1994 Article: 3178 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh130!iainw From: iainw@bnr.ca (Iain Woolf) Subject: Please tell me how to clean my benchvise.. Message-ID: <1994Jan6.154820.11431@bnr.ca> Sender: news@bnr.ca (News Administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh12 Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 15:48:20 GMT Lines: 17 Is there any recommended way of cleaning a bench vise? My is starting to get a bit mucky and is sticking occasionally when I try and undo it. Also (newbie question coming up), is it safe to keep unscrewing the vise until it comes to pieces? I have never done this and want to be sure I won't break something or find a split-flangey-wotcha-majig flying through the air that I can't refit. Cheers, Iain. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Iain Woolf, BNR, Maidenhead UK | My opinions are my opinions /~\__ (0628) 794537 esn 590-4537 | iainw@bnr.ca ^^ O -- O ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!batcomputer!cornell!dawson Sat Jan 8 19:30:00 EST 1994 Article: 3179 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!batcomputer!cornell!dawson From: dawson@cs.cornell.edu (Dawson Dean) Subject: Grinders Message-ID: <1994Jan6.191228.24248@cs.cornell.edu> Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853 Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 19:12:28 GMT Lines: 13 I am pretty new to metalworking, so I have a basic question but I cannot find it in the faq. I am about to buy a 4 1/2"" handheld grinder, and have heard reccomendations for a Metabo and a Bosch model. Both cost about the same, although the Bosch seems to be more widely available (which may or may not mean its easier to get fixed in the future). Does anyone have any experience or advice regarding either of these or any other grinders? Thanks, Dawson -- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!skates.gsfc.nasa.gov!news!steve Sat Jan 8 19:30:01 EST 1994 Article: 3180 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!skates.gsfc.nasa.gov!news!steve From: steve@baloo.gsfc.nasa.gov (Steven M Rezsutek) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Grinders Date: 06 Jan 1994 21:21:46 GMT Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center; Greenbelt, MD Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <1994Jan6.191228.24248@cs.cornell.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: baloo.gsfc.nasa.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-reply-to: dawson@cs.cornell.edu's message of Thu, 6 Jan 1994 19:12:28 GMT dawson@cs.cornell.edu (Dawson Dean) writes: I am about to buy a 4 1/2"" handheld grinder, and have heard reccomendations for a Metabo and a Bosch model. Both cost about the same, although the Bosch seems to be more widely available (which may or may not mean its easier to get fixed in the future). Does anyone have any experience or advice regarding either of these or any other grinders? For what it's worth... I don't have any specific knowledge of the makes you mention, although Bosch tools seem to have a very good rep. (A lot of the rental places here use Bosch, so I assume they're tough). On the other hand, I am happy with my Hitachi. When shopping, I found that the prices were all pretty comparable, but I bought the Hitachi because it was in stock, and I needed it *now* (don't we always ;-). Anything else would have taken 1-3 days... Steve From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen Sat Jan 8 19:30:02 EST 1994 Article: 3181 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading In-Reply-To: john@cirrus.com's message of Wed, 5 Jan 1994 18: 44:40 GMT Message-ID: Sender: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan4.162759.3609@cirrus.com> <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> <1994Jan5.184440.27992@cirrus.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 21:57:37 GMT Lines: 19 >>>>> "John" == John Wishneusky writes: John> The machinist who taught the course when I learned single-point John> threading implied it was a matter of pride to be able to make a nicely John> finished thread without relying on a groove at the end of the thread, John> though he might have been pulling our legs a bit. Nope. I have done it myself. What you do is to stop the lathe completely by turning off the motor so that the toolbit cuts almost up to the end of the thread while leaving the feed locked *on*. Then take a very large crescent wrench and use it on the jaws of the chuck to turn the lathe by hand until your tool cuts fully to the end of the thread. Back off the cross feed, take out of gear and go back for another pass. While doing this, you *must* make many shallow passes. -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen Sat Jan 8 19:30:02 EST 1994 Article: 3182 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading In-Reply-To: rtl002@acad.drake.edu's message of Wed, 5 Jan 1994 15: 28:51 GMT Message-ID: Sender: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan3.183052.23594@mmm.mmm.com> <1994Jan5.092851.1@acad.drake.edu> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 22:01:44 GMT Lines: 18 >>>>> "rtl002" == rtl002 writes: rtl002> In article , hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: >> In gunsmithing, we typically will make 30 to 100 passes in cutting >> threads depending on the thread pitch and diameter, material, etc. rtl002> seems like quite a few passes what pitch and dia are you talking The last barrel I fitted had 1" major diameter with 14 pitch threads. Another non-gun project had 3.25" diameter with 8 pitch threads. Regardless of what the application, I was taught to make lots of shallow passes. -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Sat Jan 8 19:30:03 EST 1994 Article: 3183 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 6 Jan 1994 21:58:50 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan4.162759.3609@cirrus.com> <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> <2ger31$44f@news.aero.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article <2ger31$44f@news.aero.org>, dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber) wrote: > > In article <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk writes: > > > >In the UK, a popular gadget for DIY toolmakers to make is a quick-retract > >toolholder. A big lever pulls the tool out of the cut,... [....] > >Do you have these things in the US ? > > > Many years ago, I was permitted to use a Hardinge tool-room lathe > (wedge bed ... Powerful, silent and smooth as silk. > ... > It had this kind of gadget for threading. Hardinge has had this kind of compound since 1915. They also do not use a threading guage and you do not disengage the half-nuts. You thread toward (or away from, if you're doing lefthand threads, Jim) the headstock and reverse the lead screw rotation simultaneously with withdrawing the compound. 79 years of excellence! Gary From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!ll.mit.edu!news Sat Jan 8 19:30:04 EST 1994 Article: 3184 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Please tell me how to clean my benchvise.. Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1994Jan6.204215.4792@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <1994Jan6.154820.11431@bnr.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 15:42:14 -0500 Lines: 36 In article <1994Jan6.154820.11431@bnr.ca>, writes: > > Is there any recommended way of cleaning a bench vise? My is starting > to get a bit mucky and is sticking occasionally when I try and undo > it. > > Also (newbie question coming up), is it safe to keep unscrewing the > vise until it comes to pieces? I have never done this and want to be > sure I won't break something or find a split-flangey-wotcha-majig > flying through the air that I can't refit. > > Cheers, > > Iain. > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Iain Woolf, BNR, Maidenhead UK | My opinions are my opinions /~\__ > (0628) 794537 esn 590-4537 | iainw@bnr.ca ^^ O -- O > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Any bench vise I've seen can be safely disassembled this way. The only possibly tricky part that I've run into is that the actual 'nut' that the shaft threads into may be floating internally, which may make it tricky to line up to reassemble. I don't recall this being a problem with metal working vises, but I know some woodworking vises are done that way. I'd take it apart, clean everything with an old toothbrush and some alcohol, lightly grease all sliding and treading bits, and then put it back together. Try to keep the lube to a minimum, it attracts dirt, and too much will only shorten the time before you get to do it again. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!dsea!frank Sat Jan 8 19:30:04 EST 1994 Article: 3185 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!dsea!frank From: frank@dsea.com (Frank Evan Perdicaro) Subject: Free tubing in LA area Message-ID: <1994Jan6.183400.411@dsea.com> Organization: Dainippon Screen Engineering of America, Inc. Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 18:34:00 GMT Lines: 14 More free stuff in the LA area. Already in the dumpster! Office partitions. The good part is that the frames of these things are about 20' of 1" 0.1" wall mild steel square tubing with a nice shiny nickel ( perhaps chrome? ) coating. The feet are 5/16" steel with a similar finish. There are about half a dozen of these. Act quickly: give me a call, as I can only use so much. -- Frank Evan Perdicaro Dainippon Screen Engineering of America Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today. 3700 Segerstrom Ave inhouse: frank@rebel, x210 Santa Ana CA 92704 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!ll.mit.edu!news Sat Jan 8 19:30:05 EST 1994 Article: 3186 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Book called Projects 3, plastic injection molding Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1994Jan6.220053.7577@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <2gfmnl$m27@news.u.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 6 Jan 94 17:00:52 -0500 Lines: 25 In article <2gfmnl$m27@news.u.washington.edu>, writes: > I saw an ad in HSM for a set of books called Projects 1-5 published by > Village Press. Projects 3 > includes how to make a plastic injection molding machine. Our business > needs (at some future point) small runs of custom plastic parts, so this > seems very appealing. So: > > Can anyone recommend (or not!) this book? Is building such a machine a > practical thing, or is this a hobbyist version? > > What other sources might you recommend for an introduction to plastic > injection molding? > I'm not familiar with this particular machine, but there was a series of articles in HSM a year or two ago about building your own injection molding machine. It was moderately complex (at least in terms of total parts count), and not just a simple modification of something readily available. (Being lazy, I much prefer the 'convert this inexpensive hydraulic shock into something wonderful' sort of design article). Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!isuvax.iastate.edu!TWF99 Sat Jan 8 19:30:05 EST 1994 Article: 3187 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!isuvax.iastate.edu!TWF99 From: twf99@isuvax.iastate.edu Subject: Re: Iron Availability? Message-ID: Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: twf99@isuvax.iastate.edu Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa References: ,<2gf7c1$mll@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 00:42:17 GMT Lines: 17 > >Real wrought iron probably became unavailable in the '20s, but you **MIGHT** >be able to find some as "scrap" (although in the last 70 years a lot of that >has already been scavangered) -- old barrel and tub (water tanks) were often >WI, as were architectural WI and some construction uses (do you know of a >100 year old bridge you can "salvage"?) Back in the summer of 1991 when I visited the museum at Iron Bridge in England they a a museum "mill" where they were going to try to make wrought iron again and then only on a museum scale. Don't know if they did or not and if they are still trying. This is a great museum to visit if your are interested in the history of the metals industry. Dave Smucker, ALCOA From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!a2i!mlyon Sat Jan 8 19:30:06 EST 1994 Article: 3188 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!a2i!mlyon From: mlyon@rahul.net (Mike Lyon) Subject: laser measuring devices for sale Message-ID: Sender: news@rahul.net (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: bolero Organization: a2i network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 01:20:01 GMT Lines: 14 i have two laser measuring devices for sale they are made bye excel precision. they are the 1001a laser head with the collimator lense. i will sell it for the best offer given. thanx, mlyon@rahul.net p.s. i will ship to anywhere in the continental united states. -- Mike Lyon From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Sat Jan 8 19:30:07 EST 1994 Article: 3189 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: Grinders Message-ID: <1994Jan6.194736.16831@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 32 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: <1994Jan6.191228.24248@cs.cornell.edu> Date: 6 Jan 94 19:47:36 CST Dawson Dean (dawson@cs.cornell.edu) wrote: : I am about to buy a 4 1/2"" handheld grinder, and have heard reccomendations : for a Metabo and a Bosch model... I have a DeWalt 4.5" angle grinder - if memory serves it's a DW402 rated at 6 amps. I have been very pleased with it. One of the things I really appreciate is the on/off switch which is a paddle shaped affair that one turns on by clasping it against the body of the grinder... (poor graphic follows) ______________________________________________ | \ | \ | \ | \ | ________________________________ _________\ |__|______________ | | || ^ |_____|================ on/off switch No trigger to try and hold while wearing gloves; a locking trigger gives you a dangerous weapon in case it is pulled out of your hands; this solution is easy (no fatigue) to hold "on" and very easy to release. My $0.02 worth Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Sat Jan 8 19:30:07 EST 1994 Article: 3190 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: Please tell me how to clean my benchvise.. Message-ID: <1994Jan6.195220.16983@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 19 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: <1994Jan6.154820.11431@bnr.ca> Date: 6 Jan 94 19:52:20 CST Iain Woolf (iainw@bnr.ca) wrote: : Also (newbie question coming up), is it safe to keep unscrewing the : vise until it comes to pieces? I have never done this and want to be : sure I won't break something or find a split-flangey-wotcha-majig : flying through the air that I can't refit. Your only problem may come if you have one of those nice quick release vises; they have a spring in them somewhere (never having taken one apart, I can't be more specific) Otherwise, it should be fairly easy. Make sure there isn't some sort of circlip or other retainer on the end of the thread to stop you from inadvertantly winding off the thread in the "base". Use minimum lubricant when putting it back together, it only collects swarf and filings... Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!news.udel.edu!me.udel.edu!andersen Sat Jan 8 19:30:08 EST 1994 Article: 3191 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!news.udel.edu!me.udel.edu!andersen From: andersen@me.udel.edu (Stephen Andersen) Subject: Re: Book called Projects 3, plastic injection molding Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.udel.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: me.udel.edu Organization: Department of Mechanical Engineering/University of Delaware References: <2gfmnl$m27@news.u.washington.edu> <1994Jan6.220053.7577@ll.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 04:25:36 GMT Lines: 41 >In article <2gfmnl$m27@news.u.washington.edu>, >writes: >> Can anyone recommend (or not!) this book? Is building such a machine a >> practical thing, or is this a hobbyist version? >> >> What other sources might you recommend for an introduction to plastic >> injection molding? >> There is a company in California called Morgan Industries which makes small prototyping/short production injection molding machines. They have three models. They are basically pneumatic powered platen presses with a pneumatic ram-type injection mechanism and heated barrel/nozzle. The three models are G55 - 8 ton press with 2 oz. (about 3 cu. in.) injection capacity G-55T - 20 Ton with 2 oz. capacity (uses a toggle mechanism for 20 tons) G-100T - 20 Ton with 4 oz. (6 cu in) capacity They cost about 8k, 11k and 12k respectively. They run off of 110V (heaters) and 160psi air (less air pressure obviously reduces press clamping force and max injection pressure. We (the company I work for, Anholt Technologies) have a G55 and a G100T. They should be great machines for what you are looking for. Morgan also has a book which gives a bunch of tooling/part examples. There are also a bunch of options available (PID controllers, heated tool plate, anti-drool nozzles, etc) Email me for their number (don't have it handy). Of course, if you don't want to lay out the cash for new ones, we'd be happy to help you with prototypes and small production runs ;-) ;-) ;-) Steve Andersen andersen@me.udel.edu -- Steve Andersen DoD #0239 andersen@me.udel.edu (302) 832-0136 andersen@zr1.ccm.udel.edu 1992 Ducati 907 I.E. 1987 Yamaha SRX250 "Life is simply a consequence of the complexities of carbon chemistry..." From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!witch!landau!jrl Sat Jan 8 19:30:08 EST 1994 Article: 3192 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!witch!landau!jrl Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Message-ID: <99@landau.win.net> Reply-To: jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) From: jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 1994 03:55:44 GMT Subject: lathe drive belt Lines: 14 Can anyone advise me regarding a leather drive belt on a 10" Sheldon lathe? The belt that's on it is over 20 yrs old, a bit oily, and slips whenever it has a chance. Heavy cuts are impossible. The belt is about 1.5 inches wide, can't be taken apart (no clips--it apparently was glued) and maybe 15-18 inches center to center. The pulleys are nicely polished now, and I'm sure that does not help. What is the best fix--or replacement? If I replace the belt, I'd rather not have to dismantle the headstock to do it--this means I'd have to use a belt that could be joined in place. Thanks, Joe From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!trane.uninett.no!due.uninett.no!dronning.imp.uib.no!Knut.Pedersen Sat Jan 8 19:30:09 EST 1994 Article: 3193 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!trane.uninett.no!due.uninett.no!dronning.imp.uib.no!Knut.Pedersen From: Knut.Pedersen@imp.uib.no (Knut Pedersen) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Grinders Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 10:17:38 GMT Organization: University of Bergen Lines: 23 Distribution: inet Message-ID: References: <1994Jan6.191228.24248@cs.cornell.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: dronning.imp.uib.no In article <1994Jan6.191228.24248@cs.cornell.edu> dawson@cs.cornell.edu (Dawson Dean) writes: >From: dawson@cs.cornell.edu (Dawson Dean) >Subject: Grinders >Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 19:12:28 GMT > >I am pretty new to metalworking, so I have a basic >question but I cannot find it in the faq. I am about to >buy a 4 1/2"" handheld grinder, and have heard >reccomendations for a Metabo and a Bosch model. Both cost >about the same, although the Bosch seems to be more widely >available (which may or may not mean its easier to get >fixed in the future). Does anyone have any experience >or advice regarding either of these or any other grinders? > >Thanks, >Dawson >-- My Metabo is very nice, have used it for 8 years, 900W with electronic starting it will not blow fuses. But if the electronic fail you have an expecive repair. Knut Pedersen Bergen Norway From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph Sat Jan 8 19:30:10 EST 1994 Article: 3194 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph From: ralph@astolastro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) Subject: Re: Iron Availability? Message-ID: <1994Jan7.103804.1541@nomina.lu.se> Sender: ralph@astol (Ralph Snel) Nntp-Posting-Host: nastol.astro.lu.se Organization: Lund Observatory References: ,<2gf7c1$mll@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 10:38:04 GMT Lines: 14 Inform me: what _exactly_ are the differences that make wrought iron so much better for forge-welding than ordinary mild steel? Is it (the lack of) some strange ingredient or is it plainly the way the iron was produced? How would you recognize a piece of WI? I've heard it has a fibrous structure, and I've seen an old and rusty bit that showed this very well. How would you tell if you just had a 'clean' piece? Are there any 'standard tests'? If I happen to run into on old farming machine for a few bucks (it actually happens quite often), how would I be able to tell if it's WI (of course I carry my swiss army knife and a file... :)? Ralph ralph@astro.lu.se From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Sat Jan 8 19:30:10 EST 1994 Article: 3195 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Hi-resistance material Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Fri, 07 Jan 1994 10:51:37 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <1994Jan5.184729.4973@src.honeywell.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article <1994Jan5.184729.4973@src.honeywell.com>, vestal@src.honeywell.com (Steve Vestal) wrote: > This is a materials question. I'm looking for rods in the 1/8" to 1/4" > diameter range that are reasonably strong and rigid yet have a non-negligible > electrical resistance. > > I would think that you need to use a fine wire on a support. There are a number of resistance wires available which I recall from old high-school Wheatstone bridge experiments. The rubber handbook quotes the following names and resistances for 40-gauge wires: Advance 0.958 ohm/cm Climax 1.74 Eureka 0.938 Excello 1.84 Manganin 0.878 Nichrome 2.303 Some of these are trade names but nichrome is commonly available and may suit your purpose. A possible alternative approach to your problem would be to attach the wire at one end of the carraige and allow the other end to move across a fixed contact, with a weight holding the wire taut. If you can't get an electrical contact to the carriage, then attach the centre of the wire to it and lead both ends away in the same direction,over sliding contacts to measure the resistance of the wire 'in path'. This would also double your precision (length of wire = 2 x carraige position) and you would have full control over your contact resistance (which at present seems to be a weak point). Sorry if this is all inapplicable since I am trying to solve your problem remotely! Incidentally, there is a DRO with thou precision available in the UK which uses this principle and it costs about £100. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!mrtnt.ntrs.com!tntvax!bbw1 Sat Jan 8 19:30:11 EST 1994 Article: 3196 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!mrtnt.ntrs.com!tntvax!bbw1 Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe drive belt Message-ID: <1994Jan7.064635.1@tntvax> From: bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com Date: 7 Jan 94 06:46:35 -0600 References: <99@landau.win.net> Organization: Northern Trust Company Lines: 37 In article <99@landau.win.net>, jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) writes: > Can anyone advise me regarding a leather drive belt on a 10" Sheldon lathe? > The belt that's on it is over 20 yrs old, a bit oily, and slips whenever it > has a chance. Heavy cuts are impossible. The belt is about 1.5 inches wide, > can't be taken apart (no clips--it apparently was glued) and maybe 15-18 > inches center to center. The pulleys are nicely polished now, and I'm sure > that does not help. > > What is the best fix--or replacement? If I replace the belt, I'd rather not > have to dismantle the headstock to do it--this means I'd have to use a belt > that could be joined in place. > > Thanks, Joe > > > The drive belt on my Van Norman lathe is stitched together at a butt joint. It looks like it is sewn with a heavy three strand thread (no fancy stitching either.) >From this, I assume that old drive belts were simply cut off and a new one stitched in place. (getting the pulley off the spindle, while a relatively straight forward procedure, is not a lot of fun! ) I am also curious what the correct method for replacing a worn belt is, so please post any good solutions.-- Barry Barry B. Wolinetz | Opinions, etc.... mine, not those of the Northern Trust Co. | Northern Trust. Chicago, Il | From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce Sat Jan 8 19:30:11 EST 1994 Article: 3197 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce From: powers@cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Iron Availability? Date: 7 Jan 1994 08:57:49 -0500 Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science Lines: 35 Message-ID: <2gjpotINNmbc@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu> References: <2gf7c1$mll@tymix.Tymnet.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu When I visited IronBridge at Coalbrookdale in the early '80s they were just setting the steam hammers. Sorry to hear that it isn't in production yet. For my birthday my wife gave me a copy of _Wrought Iron_, Its Manufacture, Characteristics and Applications; by James Aston and Edward B. Story; published by A.M.Byers Company; Pittsburgh, Pennslyvania. Copyright 1939-1941; seventh printing 1950. In the back under "Applications" are several good sources(?) of wrought iron: "....The North Side Sewage Disposal Plant in Chicago where several hundred tons of wrought iron pipe is in use....The Grand Coulee Dam....Brooklyn's Huge New Marine Parkway Bridge (uses) wrought iron pier protection plates....West Texas Oil Well tubing... Personally I have found wrought iron: wagon tyres, punches, fences, railroad spikes(OLD), farm equipment, bridge parts. Once you learn how to recognize it, it turns up all over. Unfortunatly the most common, (easiest to recognize), are the lower grades--muck bar & singly refined. Yellin always specified triply refined wrought iron, much easier to work! They are tearing down a couple of old bridges around here and I am trying to get some of wrought. Also the old state Pennitentary was built in 1840 and they are thinking about demolishing it as well. At the local flea market I have been buying old wrought iron wood chisels with the ends steeled for under $2 a piece. Lastly; a group of people in our historical recreation group built a furnace and made very LOW grade wrought iron using the direct reduction method! (A lot of fun but the results make me think very fond thoughts of muck bar.) Thomas Powers Columbus, Ohio From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce Sat Jan 8 19:30:12 EST 1994 Article: 3198 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce From: powers@cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Iron Availability? Date: 7 Jan 1994 09:22:43 -0500 Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science Lines: 16 Message-ID: <2gjr7jINN708@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu> References: <2gf7c1$mll@tymix.Tymnet.COM> <2gjpotINNmbc@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu How to identify wrought iron: cut part of the way through a piece and then "break it" the break will look like a broken piece of hickory wood. Learn to see the "grain" in rusty pieces---step back and look at a piece, if there seems to be "striations" in the rusting or pitting it may be wrought. >From _Formulas for Profit_, H.Bennett, 1939: To identify iron from steel: mix 5 drops nitric acid with 10 drops water, (ALWAYS ACID INTO WATER, NEVER WATER INTO ACID!!!!!!). File a clean spot and place a drop on it. If it is steel, it will turn black immediatly. If it is wrought or malleable iron it will stay bright for a considerable length of time. Follow the above at your own risk. Thomas Powers Columbus Ohio From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!iat.holonet.net!ocr!randy.gordon-gilmore Sat Jan 8 19:30:13 EST 1994 Article: 3199 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!iat.holonet.net!ocr!randy.gordon-gilmore From: RANDY.GORDON-GILMORE@ocr.com (randy gordon-gilmore) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Sheet brass forming Message-ID: Date: Fri, 07 Jan 1994 09:03:35 GMT Organization: Online Computer Resources 1-707-552-1122 Distribution: world Lines: 15 I would like to get some advice on compensating for springback when forming some brass sheet, 1/4 and 1/2 hard, .005 to .015" thick. I am using the brass for model railroad cars, photoetching window openings and other details, and then want to form the elliptical roof contour between male and female dies. This isn't pressbrake forming, and not stretch forming, but somewhere in between. My first set of dies doesn't have any springback compensation, and the sides end up splayed out (the sides and roof are in one wraparound piece). Would the springback be proportional to the radius of curvature? I'd appreciate any input. I am doing the forming by placing the dieset (aluminum male and delrin female, with a Mylar slip sheet between the brass and the delrin side) in an arbor press and applying pressure manually. Is there another (and possibly better) way to do this? Thanks in advance. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Sat Jan 8 19:30:14 EST 1994 Article: 3200 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1994Jan7.142427.28240@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan3.183052.23594@mmm.mmm.com> <1994Jan5.092851.1@acad.drake.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 94 09:24:22 -0500 Lines: 54 In article , writes: > > >>>>> "rtl002" == rtl002 writes: > > rtl002> In article , hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: > > >> In gunsmithing, we typically will make 30 to 100 passes in cutting > >> threads depending on the thread pitch and diameter, material, etc. > > rtl002> seems like quite a few passes what pitch and dia are you talking > > The last barrel I fitted had 1" major diameter with 14 pitch threads. > Another non-gun project had 3.25" diameter with 8 pitch threads. > Regardless of what the application, I was taught to make lots of > shallow passes. > > -- > Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com > Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net > Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen Now that I finally have a lathe, I've been watching this thread (sorry, I couldn't resist) closely. I haven't cut threads since I took a machine shop class 20 years ago, and I'm itching to find a good project to practice on. Anyhow, my question relates to the 'lots of shallow passes' approach to cutting. I was talking to a machinist friend who said that the down side of this is that you're putting a lot of extra wear on your tools. He recommends taking fairly healthy cuts until you get close, and then slowly finishing up with finer and finer cuts. The wear on a tool (as long as you don't overheat it) is pretty much a function of the number of passes you make, so this makes sense. What I haven't developed is a good 'feel' for how heavy a cut I can take without straining anything. I work with a wide range of materials, and some is scrap of unknown properties. Does anyone have any suggestions for empirically determining the maximum cut and feed for a given material? What you can get away with will also depend on how much cutting oil you've got pouring over everything as well. I'm usually not in a big rush, so I frequently cut 'dry' with carbide tools just to minimize the mess I create. Is this a no-no for any particular reason? I used to work on a variety of machines, and each one had a different 'stiffness', so an easy cut on one machine would produce deflection and chatter in another. As you can see, there are lots of variables that I haven't seen addressed in any of the books I've got. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Sat Jan 8 19:30:14 EST 1994 Article: 3201 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: lathe drive belt Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1994Jan7.143657.28552@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <99@landau.win.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 94 09:36:55 -0500 Lines: 27 In article <99@landau.win.net>, writes: > Can anyone advise me regarding a leather drive belt on a 10" Sheldon lathe? > The belt that's on it is over 20 yrs old, a bit oily, and slips whenever it > has a chance. Heavy cuts are impossible. The belt is about 1.5 inches wide, > can't be taken apart (no clips--it apparently was glued) and maybe 15-18 > inches center to center. The pulleys are nicely polished now, and I'm sure > that does not help. > > What is the best fix--or replacement? If I replace the belt, I'd rather not > have to dismantle the headstock to do it--this means I'd have to use a belt > that could be joined in place. > > Thanks, Joe I'm not sure what it's called (belt dressing?), but there is stuff that specifically designed to stop slipping belts available from industrial sources. I've also heard that powder rosin works very well. Look under 'Belting-Mechanical' in the Yellow Pages. If you need to replace your belt at some point, there are now belts made from interlocking pieces that avoid the gluing process. They may be noisy, and I'm not sure how well they work in reversing situations. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!wkaiser Sat Jan 8 19:30:15 EST 1994 Article: 3202 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!wkaiser From: wkaiser@mtholyoke.edu (William F. Kaiser) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe drive belt Date: 7 Jan 1994 15:42:40 GMT Organization: Mount Holyoke College Lines: 32 Message-ID: <2gjvtg$97p@slab.mtholyoke.edu> References: <99@landau.win.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mhc.mtholyoke.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Joe Landau (jrl@landau.win.net) wrote: > Can anyone advise me regarding a leather drive belt on a 10" Sheldon lathe? > The belt that's on it is over 20 yrs old, a bit oily, and slips whenever it > has a chance. Heavy cuts are impossible. The belt is about 1.5 inches wide, > can't be taken apart (no clips--it apparently was glued) and maybe 15-18 > inches center to center. The pulleys are nicely polished now, and I'm sure > that does not help. > What is the best fix--or replacement? If I replace the belt, I'd rather not > have to dismantle the headstock to do it--this means I'd have to use a belt > that could be joined in place. > Thanks, Joe Have you tried belt dressing? I have a South Bend 9" with leather belts. I found a local place, New England Belting, in Springfield MA. They sell a transparent liquid goo suitable for leather belts. I don't recall the name of the stuff off hand, but I can look at the can if you're interested. It greatly increases the friction between the belt and polished pulley. Try your yellow pages and see if there is a place that sells belting and ask them about dressings. If you have to replace the belt, look for some old machinery books, they often have instructions for joining the ends of leather belts. Bill Kaiser wkaiser@mhc.mtholyoke.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!dunix.drake.edu!acad.drake.edu!rtl002 Sat Jan 8 19:30:16 EST 1994 Article: 3203 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!dunix.drake.edu!acad.drake.edu!rtl002 From: rtl002@acad.drake.edu Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Message-ID: <1994Jan7.100913.1@acad.drake.edu> Lines: 25 Sender: news@dunix.drake.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: acad.drake.edu Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan3.183052.23594@mmm.mmm.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 16:09:13 GMT In article , hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: >>>>>> "rtl002" == rtl002 writes: > > rtl002> In article , hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: > >>> In gunsmithing, we typically will make 30 to 100 passes in cutting >>> threads depending on the thread pitch and diameter, material, etc. > > rtl002> seems like quite a few passes what pitch and dia are you talking > > The last barrel I fitted had 1" major diameter with 14 pitch threads. > Another non-gun project had 3.25" diameter with 8 pitch threads. > Regardless of what the application, I was taught to make lots of > shallow passes. Dion I can cut those threads in 15 passes or less!!!! (Dion)> Go ahead Bob Cut those threads!!! But seriously with so many passes don't you find that your tool dulls. I've been a machinist for 10 years and a tool and die maker for 2 years and at times I've been required to cut threads from 10-32 to 6"-8. Materials ranging from plexy,lexan,alum,brass,cast,D-2,cpm,titanium,stainless,and even inconel. And I don't believe I ever exceeded 30 passes and many times had to hold strict unreasonable military tolerences. I guess I'm just from a different school(the one where the Boss looks over your shoulder holding a stopwatch because he underbids the job). BoB From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!dunix.drake.edu!acad.drake.edu!rtl002 Sat Jan 8 19:30:16 EST 1994 Article: 3204 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!dunix.drake.edu!acad.drake.edu!rtl002 From: rtl002@acad.drake.edu Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Message-ID: <1994Jan7.104539.1@acad.drake.edu> Lines: 48 Sender: news@dunix.drake.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: acad.drake.edu Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan7.142427.28240@ll.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 16:45:39 GMT In article <1994Jan7.142427.28240@ll.mit.edu>, Doug White writes: > Now that I finally have a lathe, I've been watching this thread (sorry, > I couldn't resist) closely. I haven't cut threads since I took a > machine shop class 20 years ago, and I'm itching to find a good project > to practice on. > > Anyhow, my question relates to the 'lots of shallow passes' approach to > cutting. I was talking to a machinist friend who said that the down > side of this is that you're putting a lot of extra wear on your tools. This has been my experiance > He recommends taking fairly healthy cuts until you get close, and then > slowly finishing up with finer and finer cuts. The wear on a tool > (as long as you don't overheat it) is pretty much a function of the > number of passes you make, so this makes sense. What I haven't > developed is a good 'feel' for how heavy a cut I can take without > straining anything. > > I work with a wide range of materials, and some is scrap of unknown > properties. Does anyone have any suggestions for empirically determining > the maximum cut and feed for a given material? What you can get away > with will also depend on how much cutting oil you've got pouring over > everything as well. I'm usually not in a big rush, so I frequently > cut 'dry' with carbide tools just to minimize the mess I create. Is > this a no-no for any particular reason? I used to work on a variety > of machines, and each one had a different 'stiffness', so an easy cut > on one machine would produce deflection and chatter in another. As > you can see, there are lots of variables that I haven't seen addressed > in any of the books I've got. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. > > Doug White > MIT Lincoln Laboratory There are so many factors that have an effect on how much material you can take off while cutting threads. I don't believe that there is an effective way of determining the amount you take off in one pass. Experiance is the best teacher. If you cut dry you have a chance of overheating the tool, material galling to the tool, and increased wear. I would suggest that you use an acid brush to apply some cutting oil this will minimize the mess verses pouring it on. Some tougher materials are going to require more of a coolent/lubricant, here I use a spray bottle with a water soluble machining fluid(good on stainless). I have cut dry at higher speeds using some ceramic inserts that seem to last fine but are expensive. Bob From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!cam!wollack Sat Jan 8 19:30:17 EST 1994 Article: 3205 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!cam!wollack From: wollack@ssd.comm.mot.com (Ken Wollack) Subject: Dumb Machining Question Reply-To: wollack@ssd.comm.mot.com Organization: Motorola LMPS Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 14:30:46 GMT Message-ID: <1994Jan7.143046.29593@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> Sender: news@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.1.56.104 Lines: 16 Hi, I am a novice-hobbiest-do-it-yer-selfer type guy. I have a Sherline vertical mini mill, Taig micro-lathe, crummy drill press, horizontal bandsaw. I want to have the ability to make some larger cuts, with endmills, than is possible with the tiny Sherline. With the MT1 3/8" endmill holder on the Sherline, the max I can do is take very shallow cuts (in brass - mild steel) with a 1/4" or 3/8" endmill. I have an idea, and I would appreciate it if I could get an opinion. Please tell me if it is stupid. I was thinking of buying a 16 speed bench drill press, with about a 3/4 horse motor. Most of these have a MT2 spindle. In addition I would buy a low end mill/drill cross slide table, and a end mill holder for the MT2 spindle. I understand the spindle will have much more play than an actual vertical mill, but I was wondering if I could successfully make rough cuts with this setup without killing the drill press bearings because of the lateral force. The reason I was thinking of this is that the total price for this is around $400 from discount mail order (200 drill press - 200 table - 10 end mill holder). I will buy a decent mill oneday, but now is not the right time. Thanx for listenin' Ken Wollack From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john Sat Jan 8 19:30:18 EST 1994 Article: 3206 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john From: john@cirrus.com (John Wishneusky) Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Message-ID: <1994Jan7.164558.14334@cirrus.com> Sender: news@cirrus.com Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc. Fremont, California References: <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> <1994Jan5.184440.27992@cirrus.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 16:45:58 GMT Lines: 32 In article hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: >>>>>> "John" == John Wishneusky writes: > >John> The machinist who taught the course when I learned single-point >John> threading implied it was a matter of pride to be able to make a nicely >John> finished thread without relying on a groove at the end of the thread, >John> though he might have been pulling our legs a bit. > >Nope. I have done it myself. What you do is to stop the lathe >completely by turning off the motor so that the toolbit cuts almost up >to the end of the thread while leaving the feed locked *on*. Then >take a very large crescent wrench and use it on the jaws of the chuck >to turn the lathe by hand until your tool cuts fully to the end of the >thread. Back off the cross feed, take out of gear and go back for >another pass. While doing this, you *must* make many shallow passes. > I meant pulling our legs about how tricky a technique and how much a matter of pride it was. I saw him demonstrate cutting such threads without stopping the lathe. His point was that we should be agile and consistent enough to disengage the halfnut and back out the crossfeed to produce a nicely finished thread without a full groove at the end. I generally cut threads that way with reasonable results myself. You don't really have to always disengage at exactly the same point as long as the tool's held securely enough not to shift if it ends up plowing through a heavier cut at the end of the thread occasionally. >-- >Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com >Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net >Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen John From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Sat Jan 8 19:30:18 EST 1994 Article: 3207 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 7 Jan 1994 17:39:52 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan3.183052.23594@mmm.mmm.com> <1994Jan7.100913.1@acad.drake.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article <1994Jan7.100913.1@acad.drake.edu>, rtl002@acad.drake.edu wrote: > > But seriously with so many passes don't you find that your tool dulls. Bob is certainly right, especially if threading work-hardening materials like 300 series stainless steels. I've never met a production machinist that took small cuts all the way through if the machine and the tool could hog. My usual practice is to take as large a cut as the material cross-section, the tool, and the machine drive can take, and reduce the cut to a finishing cut about 2 or three finishing cuts from the end. This way I can tell how much spring the piece will have when I make the finish cut and I can set the compound accordingly. Saves time, tools, and scrap. All you really have to do is learn to measure accurately. Works for threads as well as any other shape. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Sat Jan 8 19:30:19 EST 1994 Article: 3208 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: Dumb Machining Question Message-ID: <1994Jan7.134427.21610@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 24 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: <1994Jan7.143046.29593@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> Date: 7 Jan 94 13:44:27 CST Ken Wollack (wollack@ssd.comm.mot.com) wrote: : I was thinking of buying a 16 speed bench drill press, with about a 3/4 horse : motor... a low end mill/drill cross slide table, and a end mill holder... : I understand the spindle will have much more play than an actual vertical : mill, but I was wondering if I could successfully make rough cuts with this : setup without killing the drill press bearings because of the lateral force. I think you'll find the general consensus on this is that 1) yes, you could do it, and 2) it's a bad idea particularly since "rough cuts" usually imply removing non-trivial amounts of metal. In terms of an investment you would probably be better off scouting around for one of the Taiwanese combination mill-drill machines. You should be able to find one new for a reasonable price and maybe a secondhand one for not much off the $400 (I don't know, I haven't looked at the secondhand market for those things) Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Sat Jan 8 19:30:20 EST 1994 Article: 3209 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Iron Availability? Date: 7 Jan 1994 20:29:43 GMT Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 29 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2gkgnn$hfu@tymix.Tymnet.COM> References: <1994Jan7.103804.1541@nomina.lu.se> Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com In article 1541@nomina.lu.se, ralph@astolastro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) writes: > Inform me: what _exactly_ are the differences that make wrought iron > so much better for forge-welding than ordinary mild steel? > Is it (the lack of) some strange ingredient or is it plainly the way > the iron was produced? Wrought Iron ("WI") was the common form of iron UNTIL high-volume production methods were developed (e.g., open-hearth, bessemer). WHen smelting the ore, they didn't have the heat to completely liquify the iron -- what they got was a "sponge" of iron with a lot of included slag. This was removed from the furnace, and forged ("Wrought") into bars. This process caused a lot of the included slag to be squeezed out and lost; the remainder was in the form of inclusive "threads" (with the iron threads forge welded together). The result was a "composite" material containing both iron AND slag. If reforged, more slag was squeezed out (e.g., "triple-refined"). The included slag protects the iron from corrosion (when the surface rusts, the rusting stops at the slag fibers -- hence the "wood-grain"). It also allows higher temperatures to be reached in the forge, so the hot iron is more maliable and more readily welded (the slag acts like a flux). Moder iron is "pure" (no slag inclusions), Hope this helps. JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!henry.med.uiuc.edu!user Sat Jan 8 19:30:20 EST 1994 Article: 3210 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!henry.med.uiuc.edu!user From: jjhenry@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Henry) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Thread-cutting Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 7 Jan 1994 20:35:14 GMT Organization: Univ. of Illinois Lines: 6 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: henry.med.uiuc.edu Does anyone know of a way to use a metric thread dial to cut english threads (on a metric lathe) or how to use a english thread dial to cut english threads (on an english lathe)? Perhaps someone has devised a formula? Metal Meister From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck Sat Jan 8 19:30:21 EST 1994 Article: 3211 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck From: okunewck@pds16 (Phil OKunewick) Subject: Re: Iron Availability? Message-ID: Sender: news@cse.psu.edu (Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: pds16.cse.psu.edu Reply-To: okunewck@cse.psu.edu Organization: Random, at best References: <1994Jan7.103804.1541@nomina.lu.se> <2gkgnn$hfu@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 22:18:28 GMT Lines: 32 > [ Much talk about wrought iron ] Central Pennsylvania had a big iron industry in the 1700's to 1800's. All the necessary materials were readily available, iron ore, limestone (for a reduction catalyst) and trees for charcoal. Streams were dammed and modified for hydro power, and canals were built alongside streams for transportation. I believe the industry was killed by the steel industry of Southwest PA, where water transportation is better and coal is available. (Isn't it ironic that the Southwest PA industry is itself now dying out due to cheaper production elsewhere?) The ruins of this industry are all over central PA, slowly being reclaimed by nature or overrun by civilization. But you can still go out to the ruins and see the furnace stacks, the foundations of the refining hammer mills, and what's left of the canals. A little digging will turn up charcoal, slag, and occasional bits of iron. A few locations have been reconstructed by historical preservation societies; Curtin Village (the old Eagle Iron Works) is restored enough to get a very good idea of what the industry was like. Greenwood Furnace has been turned into a park; the furnace itself has been reconstructed to vaguely resemble its original self - more like a monument than a furnace now. So if you find yourself in the neighborhood and are interested, a visit to Curtin Village may be worth your while. It's located about 20 miles northeast of Penn State University. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!gatekeeper.es.dupont.com!esds01.es.dupont.com!SHEARER@esvx12.es.dupont.com Sat Jan 8 19:30:22 EST 1994 Article: 3212 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!gatekeeper.es.dupont.com!esds01.es.dupont.com!SHEARER@esvx12.es.dupont.com From: shearer@esvx12.es.dupont.com (Stephen Shearer) Subject: Re: Stupid Question: Threading Message-ID: <1994Jan7.212730.16277@es.dupont.com> Sender: news@es.dupont.com (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: esvx12.es.dupont.com Reply-To: shearer@esvx12.es.dupont.com Organization: DuPont (Opinions are those of the writer only) References: <1994Jan3.132025.28199@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan4.162759.3609@cirrus.com> <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> <2ger31$44f@news.aero.org>, Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 21:27:30 GMT Lines: 40 In article , gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes: >In article <2ger31$44f@news.aero.org>, dgolber@aero.org (Dave Golber) >wrote: >> >> In article <757723065snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk writes: >> > >> >In the UK, a popular gadget for DIY toolmakers to make is a quick-retract >> >toolholder. A big lever pulls the tool out of the cut,... >[....] >> >Do you have these things in the US ? >> >> >> Many years ago, I was permitted to use a Hardinge tool-room lathe >> (wedge bed ... Powerful, silent and smooth as silk. >> ... >> It had this kind of gadget for threading. > >Hardinge has had this kind of compound since 1915. They also do not use a >threading guage and you do not disengage the half-nuts. You thread toward >(or away from, if you're doing lefthand threads, Jim) the headstock and >reverse the lead screw rotation simultaneously with withdrawing the >compound. 79 years of excellence! > > >Gary The company Metal Lathe Accessories, Box 88, Pine Grove Mills, PA 16868 and it looks like Town Farm, Outwood Lane, Bietchingley, Redhill, Surrey, RH1 4LR, England also carries the kits and plans for a "QUICK RETRACTING TOOLPOST (MLA-16D)". The drawings are $6.50, complete kit $33.50 or $52.75 depending upon basic kit or long kit. The info says: Operating the handle withdraws the tool instantly from the work when cutting either external or internal threads. It looks nice, I have thought of getting the plans and modifing it for use on my EMCO C5, as it has no half-nut. First I want to finish the crank I am making for the spindle bore, so I can manualy make threads up to a shoulder. Steve From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!yeshua.marcam.com!nic.hookup.net!batcomputer!caen!malgudi.oar.net!witch!landau!jrl Sat Jan 8 19:30:22 EST 1994 Article: 3213 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!yeshua.marcam.com!nic.hookup.net!batcomputer!caen!malgudi.oar.net!witch!landau!jrl Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Message-ID: <103@landau.win.net> References: <1994Jan6.191228.24248@cs.cornell.edu> Reply-To: jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) From: jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 1994 21:05:33 GMT Subject: Re: Grinders Lines: 10 In article <1994Jan6.191228.24248@cs.cornell.edu>, Dawson Dean (dawson@cs.cornell.edu) writes: > > Does anyone have any experience >or advice regarding either of these or any other grinders? > I have a 4" Makita grinder that I got at Price Club for $49. The price was right, but it has a smaller spindle (10mm, as I recall) than the larger ones, which are 5/8 x 11 t.p.i. Most of the accessories from the mail order houses, such as wire brushes, are 5/8. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Sun Jan 9 10:58:32 EST 1994 Article: 3214 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Iron Availability? References: <2gf7c1$mll@tymix.Tymnet.COM> <2gjpotINNmbc@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 22 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 10:48:12 +0000 Message-ID: <758112492snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk It's important to remember how grades of wrought iron are classified. Using the wrong grade is worse than trying to use black mild steel. Wrought iron is initially produced as "merchant bar". This is the "pig iron" of wrought iron, a very raw form of metal that's not much use for anything except trading to metal refiners for further processing. It has a huge great fibrous structure, with big slag intrusions. To improve the quality of the iron, the bars are cut in half lengthways and welded/rolled together again side-by-side. This makes the fibre structure thinner and more regular. After one cycle of this it's called "single cut" or "single shear". The process is usually done 1, 2 or 3 times, making a better quality grade each time. For hand-forging sizes, triple shear is what you need. Merchant bar is thoroughly nasty stuff to work. Avoid. Wrought iron piping is also a pretty nasty grade thats not much good for forgework. _ Andy Dingley / ) ' ,_ _, / _ ) _/_ Codesmiths of Newcastle /_ / / / / (_) /_) (_) /_ dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (_) +44 091 230 1695 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Sun Jan 9 10:58:32 EST 1994 Article: 3215 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Oil for old Myford ML7. References: <16F34E846.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> <757780811snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 14 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 10:56:34 +0000 Message-ID: <758112994snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article ole@delab.sintef.no "Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen" writes: > Yes, I agree that they are pricey. But are there better alternatives > around for people like me, who needs a lathe like the long bed ML7, > perhaps with a larger swing and spindle hole? Buy a second hand industrial lathe. Even if you have to change a three phase motor to single phase (even better, get three phase installed !) it can be cheaper than a Myford and is nearly always better equipped. As for swing diameter, headstock bore, geared headstocks, power feeds... I like Colchesters; Students or Bantams. They're bigger than Myfords if you're using a corner of a garage, but they're not unmanageably big if you have a dedicated workshop space. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Sun Jan 9 10:58:33 EST 1994 Article: 3216 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: lathe drive belt References: <99@landau.win.net> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 18 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 11:02:54 +0000 Message-ID: <758113374snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <99@landau.win.net> jrl@landau.win.net writes: > Can anyone advise me regarding a leather drive belt on a 10" Sheldon lathe? If the belt is dry, use belt dressing on it. If you don't use dressing often enough, the inner surface of the leather can slip and polish smooth. Oil fouling is also a problem that may need a new belt. If the inner is dark and shiny, try using a brass wirebrush (suede / spark plug brush) on it. If you do this while the belt is moving, count your fingers afterwards ! I'm not aware of a "sectional" replacement for flat belts, as you can get for V belts. This means you either assemble the belt on the machine (by sewing, or metal clips for big belts) or you will need to split the headstock. _ Andy Dingley / ) ' ,_ _, / _ ) _/_ Codesmiths of Newcastle /_ / / / / (_) /_) (_) /_ dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (_) +44 091 230 1695 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Sun Jan 9 10:58:33 EST 1994 Article: 3217 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Hi-resistance material References: <1994Jan5.184729.4973@src.honeywell.com> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 25 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 11:11:00 +0000 Message-ID: <758113860snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <1994Jan5.184729.4973@src.honeywell.com> vestal@src.honeywell.com "Steve Vestal" writes: > The project involves sensing the position of a conductive carriage that slides > along a pair of such rods with errors of a few mm. I was hoping to sense the > position of the carriage by looking at the resistance between the ends of the > rods Seriously, I'd forget trying to do it by resistance and use another way. It's just *too* error prone. If you get it working (which I don't doubt) I wouldn't expect it to last long. Sliding contacts are no fun for reliability. How much electronics do you know ? If I were doing it, I'd use an optical track with some (simple) electronics. Use a two track quadrature system to drive an incremental counter (like the insides of a computer mouse). The only problem with this is it loses position memory when you turn it off. Either crank it to the end position when you switch on, or make the electronics battery backed up. I've also seen a really cheap version of this (a school project) done with a magnetic track made of computer tape glued to perspex. _ Andy Dingley / ) ' ,_ _, / _ ) _/_ Codesmiths of Newcastle /_ / / / / (_) /_) (_) /_ dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (_) +44 091 230 1695 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU!OSYSMAS Sun Jan 9 20:47:17 EST 1994 Article: 3218 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU!OSYSMAS From: OSYSMAS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Michael Stein) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Hi-resistance material Date: Sun, 09 Jan 1994 10:27 Organization: UCLA Microcomputer Support Office Lines: 12 Sender: MVS NNTP News Reader Message-ID: <19940109102730OSYSMAS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> References: <758113860snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: mvs.oac.ucla.edu >> The project involves sensing the position of a conductive carriage that slides >> along a pair of such rods with errors of a few mm. I was hoping to sense the >> position of the carriage by looking at the resistance between the ends of the >> rods How fast a response do you need? I remember seeing some national semiconductor application note using a metal tube with a temperature gradient along it. The position sensor was one of their temperature sensors sliding in the tube. For a high vibration situation this can average out the noise... From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!wbrown Mon Jan 10 22:33:57 EST 1994 Article: 3219 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!wbrown From: wbrown@csg.lbl.gov (Bill Brown) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe drive belt Date: 10 Jan 1994 05:30:37 GMT Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California Lines: 25 Message-ID: <36541@dog.ee.lbl.gov> References: <99@landau.win.net> <758113374snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.252.184 In article <758113374snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk writes: >In article <99@landau.win.net> jrl@landau.win.net writes: > >> Can anyone advise me regarding a leather drive belt on a 10" Sheldon lathe? > >If the belt is dry, use belt dressing on it. If you don't use dressing often >enough, the inner surface of the leather can slip and polish smooth. Oil >fouling is also a problem that may need a new belt. If the inner is dark and >shiny, try using a brass wirebrush (suede / spark plug brush) on it. If you >do this while the belt is moving, count your fingers afterwards ! When I worked in a sawmill, the millwrights talked anout cleaning the belts in "the old mill" with acetone. Half of the "old mill" (2 head- rigs and the associated edgers, trimmers, conveyors and slashers) was driven by a Coreless steam engine - the drive belt from the flywheel on the engine to the main lineshaft was about 3' wide. One did not even _think_ about replacing that belt unless absolutely necessary. I did see them splice it once - with glue. Sort of a larger-scale version of glueing the belt as shown in the old South Bend lathe manual. Disclaimer: These opinions are my own and have | nothing to do with the official policy or the | -bill management of L.B.L, who probably couldn't | wlbrown@lbl.gov care less about employees who play with trains. | From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!hermes.acs.ryerson.ca!ee.ryerson.ca!dspeck Mon Jan 10 22:33:58 EST 1994 Article: 3220 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!hermes.acs.ryerson.ca!ee.ryerson.ca!dspeck From: dspeck@ee.ryerson.ca (DOUG SPECK) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Induction furnace questions. Date: 10 Jan 1994 08:12:20 GMT Organization: Ryerson Polytechnic University Lines: 26 Message-ID: <2gr2l4$e9a@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: cuckoo.ee.ryerson.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] I have some questions for this newsgroup's readers, and I hope the answers will be of interest to all: What exactly is an induction furnace? What are its capabilities? How does it work? and, What power requirements would a home-use model have? I am interested in forging in my basement, some knives ( up to swords, some day), and was thinking an electrical furnace would be safer indoors than any flame-operated furnace, esp. in winter. I am an Electrical Technologist, so I should be able to follow technical explanations. ;) thanks for your replies(in advance), Doug Speck. -- dspeck@ee.ryerson.ca - aka T-Bear Remember - The teddybear of today still carries the vestigial claws of his ancestors... From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david Mon Jan 10 22:33:59 EST 1994 Article: 3221 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david From: david@barney.UUCP (David Hoopes) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Grinders Message-ID: <213@barney.UUCP> Date: 10 Jan 94 13:58:14 GMT References: <1994Jan6.191228.24248@cs.cornell.edu> <103@landau.win.net> Organization: Exabyte, Lenexa (Formerly Tallgrass Technologies) Lines: 29 jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) writes: > >In article <1994Jan6.191228.24248@cs.cornell.edu>, Dawson Dean (dawson@cs.cornell.edu) writes: >> >> Does anyone have any experience >>or advice regarding either of these or any other grinders? >> >I have a 4" Makita grinder that I got at Price Club for $49. The price was >right, but it has a smaller spindle (10mm, as I recall) than the larger ones, >which are 5/8 x 11 t.p.i. Most of the accessories from the mail order houses, >such as wire brushes, are 5/8. I have a 4" Makita Grinder also. I have not had any trouble finding attachments in local tool stores that carry Makita. Clarks Tools, is where I shop most of the time (there are several of them in Kansas City, don't know if they are a national chain or not). I really like this tool. It can't do everything that the larger sizes can do, but you don't feel like you have been holding on to a run away truck after using it for a while. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- David Hoopes Exabyte Corp. david@tallgrass.COM 11100 W 82nd St. Voice: (913) 492-6002 x3323 Lenexa, Ks 66214 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Mon Jan 10 22:34:00 EST 1994 Article: 3222 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: stuck tapers Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 17:04:01 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <11087@blue.cis.pitt.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article <11087@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, pgist+@pitt.edu (Philip G Isaac) wrote: > Can someone help with the "stuck-taper" problem? I have two stuck > tapers which have not yet yielded to efforts to free them. > A last resort solution is to put a propane torch on it. The idea is to expand the outside (female) shaft before the inner taper expands, so use a large soft flame to heat the entire shaft, and be ready to knock the taper out after about 30 seconds of heating. The expansion should loosen it, and it will help free rust or old pitch deposits too. It's a last resort because it might distort the shaft if it was machined with some residual stress. Use gentle well-distributed heating to try to avoid this. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!trinews.sbc.com!tadams Mon Jan 10 22:34:01 EST 1994 Article: 3223 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!trinews.sbc.com!tadams From: tadams@sbc.com (Tom. Adams 529-7860) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Steam question Date: 10 Jan 1994 17:41:04 GMT Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources Lines: 13 Message-ID: <2gs3vg$com@sbctri.sbc.com> Reply-To: tadams@sbctri.sbc.com NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.sbc.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9] A friend of mine asks that I post this question. If you can help, please reply to "Will_Chorley@sbctri.sbc.com" Where might I find (free) technical information regarding the suitability of various O ring materials for various applications. More specifically is an O ring of Buna-N appropriate for use as a valve gland seal exposed 100 - 200 psi steam. If not, what material is recommended? -- Tom Adams Southwestern Bell Technology Resources Telephone:314-529-7860 Fax:314-529-7573 Use this email address -->> tadams@sbctri.sbc.com <<<--- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Mon Jan 10 22:34:02 EST 1994 Article: 3224 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe drive belt Message-ID: <1994Jan10.094531.180@flying-disk.com> Date: 10 Jan 94 09:45:31 PST References: <99@landau.win.net> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 40 In article <99@landau.win.net>, jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) writes: > Can anyone advise me regarding a leather drive belt on a 10" Sheldon lathe? > The belt that's on it is over 20 yrs old, a bit oily, and slips whenever it > has a chance. Heavy cuts are impossible. The belt is about 1.5 inches wide, > can't be taken apart (no clips--it apparently was glued) and maybe 15-18 > inches center to center. The pulleys are nicely polished now, and I'm sure > that does not help. > > What is the best fix--or replacement? If I replace the belt, I'd rather not > have to dismantle the headstock to do it--this means I'd have to use a belt > that could be joined in place. I bought a replacement leather belt for my Logan 200 10" lathe for the same reason -- I don't want to disassemble the headstock. My belt is only 1" wide, but perhaps Logan has wider ones available. Mine is 43.5" long, with about 4" of that being overlapped at the ends. The ends come already tapered for a smooth connection. It comes with instructions and a small bottle of the special cement. It is part number LP-1183 and cost $31.00 in 1992. Logan Actuator Co. 4956 N. Elston Avenue Chicago, IL 60630 (312) 736-7500 (Voice) (312) 736-6854 (FAX) By the way, the folks at Logan are very nice. I gather that they support these old machines as their way of being a "good citizen" -- they certainly won't get rich doing it. Every time I had a question about a part for my lathe, they were able to find someone who remembered exactly how it is constructed, despite the fact that it is 50 years old. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!markf Mon Jan 10 22:34:02 EST 1994 Article: 3225 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!markf From: markf@cs.tamu.edu (Mark A Fleming) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Making O gage live steam engine? Date: 10 Jan 1994 18:17:27 GMT Organization: Texas A&M Computer Science Department, College Station, TX Lines: 30 Message-ID: <2gs63n$8bj@news.tamu.edu> References: <1994Jan3.131927.28131@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: neuron.tamu.edu In article <1994Jan3.131927.28131@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, Gary huntress wrote: >dale.eason@stpaul.ncr.com (Dale Eason) writes: > >>I am interested in leaning how to make a O gage live steam engine. Does >>anyone know of any good books or catalogues about it. I have just >>subscribed to the Live Steam magazine so I know what is in there. > Check your Live Steam for the ad by Little Engines. They sell plans and castings for 2-6-2, 4-6-4, 2-8-2, and 4-8-4 O gauge engines. Get just the plans and castings - you can save a bundle using your own stock instead of what they supply. I made a half-hearted attempt at building the 4-8-4 before moving on to 1/2" scale. I may move on to 7.5" scale one day, when I can afford to transport several hundred lbs. of pig iron! -- Mark A. Fleming Texas A&M University markf@cs.tamu.edu ``It often happens, with regard to new inventions, that one part of the general public finds them useless and another part considers them to be impossible. When it becomes clear that the possibility and usefulness can no longer be denied, most agree that the whole thing was fairly easy to discover and that they knew about it all along.'' Abraham Edelcrantz, A Treatise on Telegraphs, 1796 -- Mark A. Fleming Texas A&M University markf@cs.tamu.edu ``It often happens, with regard to new inventions, that one part of the general public finds them useless and another part considers them From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Mon Jan 10 22:34:03 EST 1994 Article: 3226 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: Oil for old Myford ML7. Message-ID: <1994Jan10.114422.19055@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 26 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: <16F34E846.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> <757780811snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> <758112994snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Date: 10 Jan 94 11:44:22 CST Andy Dingley (dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk) wrote: : Buy a second hand industrial lathe. Even if you have to change a three phase : motor to single phase (even better, get three phase installed !) it can be : cheaper than a Myford and is nearly always better equipped. As for swing : diameter, headstock bore, geared headstocks, power feeds... : I like Colchesters; Students or Bantams. They're bigger than Myfords if : you're using a corner of a garage, but they're not unmanageably big if you : have a dedicated workshop space. Surely the question here revolves(sic) around what the lathe is wanted for? Myford equipment has been around for a long time and has done very good service for many people. Not everyone *needs* that big a swing etc. Buying secondhand industrial equipment may be cheaper in the initial purchase but, unless it has been rebuilt (properly) already, the cost of refurbishing may be quite high (depending on the wear) Availability of parts for the equipment may also be an issue. Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!barrnet.net!parc!richley Mon Jan 10 22:34:04 EST 1994 Article: 3227 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!barrnet.net!parc!richley From: richley@parc.xerox.com (Ed Richley) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Thread-cutting Date: 10 Jan 1994 18:31:33 GMT Organization: Xerox Palo Alto Research Center Lines: 28 Message-ID: <2gs6u5$p1s@news.parc.xerox.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deneb.parc.xerox.com jjhenry@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Henry) writes: >Does anyone know of a way to use a metric thread dial to cut english >threads (on a metric lathe) or how to use a english thread dial to cut >english threads (on an english lathe)? Perhaps someone has devised a >formula? If you use change gears (127/50) I'm pretty sure the answer is that you just can't disengage the half-nut. Also, while we're on the subject, there is a very interesting technique for cutting metric threads on an English lathe, and vice-versa. It involves using the taper attachment AND the tailstock set-over, both set to the same angle. I think you choose the next finest pitch to the one you want, and then do the trig to determine what the set-over should be for the desired thread. For this, you might be able to use the thread dial and disengage the half-nuts as usual. Ed richley@parc.xerox.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Mon Jan 10 22:34:05 EST 1994 Article: 3228 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: Steam question Message-ID: <1994Jan10.154850.3906@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 13 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: <2gs3vg$com@sbctri.sbc.com> Date: 10 Jan 94 15:48:50 CST Tom. Adams 529-7860 (tadams@sbc.com) wrote: : A friend of mine asks that I post this question. If you can help, : please reply to "Will_Chorley@sbctri.sbc.com"... ...but please post it too! Sources of information like this are always useful... Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Mon Jan 10 22:34:06 EST 1994 Article: 3229 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Induction furnace questions. References: <2gr2l4$e9a@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 55 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 22:01:57 +0000 Message-ID: <758239317snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <2gr2l4$e9a@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> dspeck@ee.ryerson.ca "DOUG SPECK" writes: > What exactly is an induction furnace? It's a big coil connected to the AC mains. You put metal in the middle of it, and the eddy currents generated melt the metal by resistive heating. It's more efficient if you increase the frequency, but this puts the plant costs up as you have to give up a simple direct drive for an AC->DC->AC convertor. The advantage for metallurgical use is that it's a very pure form of heating; no combustion required and if you want chemical purity it's easy to arrange inert/reducing gas jackets around the melt. OTOH, it's an expensive way of heating, the plant is expensive and it's not as efficient a consumer of electricity as an arc furnace. For this reason, it's usually used for small batch production of high quality metal alloys or accurate heat treatment of finished parts (eg. springs/knife blades), rather than a general purpose metal cooker. Because it's low frequency, you don't have the RF interference problems that you get with arc furnaces. Because it's inductive, you do have problems with power factors. *You* don't have problems, but the power supply companies do - if you try and run a big induction furnace they will want to know about it and can charge you a great deal more for your electricity, as the cost of coping with this disturbed power factor. A lot of commercial scale installations have their own generating plant. for this reason. I've built a small induction furnace (about ten years ago) as a lab project for refining semiconductors. Not difficult at all, but then I was using commercial parts on a not seriously limited budget. For efficiency, it ran at around 600Hz (AFAIR) with a commercial thyristor drive and a coil made of copper water pipe (water cooled). I think the max power was around 3kW, but we only ran it at 1kW. A DIY induction furnace is certainly practical, but I'm not sure I'd bother. Too much construction effort and too high running costs. I'd look at propane / blown air as a source of high quality controllable heat for a moderate price. Not too expensive to buy/build, more compact than a coke hearth & less expensive to run than oxy-acetylene. You can certainly use it indoors, provided you're sensible about hearths, fireproofing of walls/ceiling, ventilation fans and gas leak detectors. Most fuel gases are heavier than air and are a *real* hazard in basements - look in a boatyard for gas alarms / auto-shutoff valves. NB - Anything magnetic inside the coil's field (even outside the coil) will generate heat. Be careful with construction materials ! BTW - What does oxy-acetylene cost in the US ? In the UK it's prohibitive for low-use DIY purposes. The gas is affordable, but the bottle rentals are extortionate. _ Andy Dingley / ) ' ,_ _, / _ ) _/_ Codesmiths of Newcastle /_ / / / / (_) /_) (_) /_ dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (_) +44 091 230 1695 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!ncrtimes!stpaul.ncr.com!dale.eason Mon Jan 10 22:34:06 EST 1994 Article: 3230 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!ncrtimes!stpaul.ncr.com!dale.eason From: dale.eason@stpaul.ncr.com (Dale Eason) Subject: Used equipment dealers Message-ID: Lines: 16 Sender: news@NCRTimes.stpaul.ncr.com Organization: NCR network products division Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 00:12:23 GMT I am looking for a good used bench top lathe for model making. Maybe one of the South bend 9 inch variety. I have seen ads in HSM from Sorbel (New Jersey) for used lathes etc. Does anyone haveany experience with them. I live in St paul, Minn. Used equipment is about double what Sorbel asks. Sorbel told a friend that is because we a agriculture based here and not many used tools are on the market. Does anyone know if there may be any place in the Milwaukee area that may be cheaper than here. I think it is more industrial than Minnesota. Thanks Dale Eason dale.eason@.stpaul.ncr.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!borland.com!johnh Mon Jan 10 22:34:07 EST 1994 Article: 3231 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!borland.com!johnh From: johnh@borland.com (John Haskey) Subject: Re: Making O gage live steam engine? Message-ID: <1994Jan11.003036.4070@borland.com> Originator: johnh@genghis.borland.com Sender: news@borland.com (News Admin) Organization: Borland International, Inc. References: <1994Jan3.131927.28131@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <2gs63n$8bj@news.tamu.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 00:30:36 GMT Lines: 18 In article <2gs63n$8bj@news.tamu.edu>, Mark A Fleming wrote: > Check your Live Steam for the ad by Little Engines. They sell plans and >castings for 2-6-2, 4-6-4, 2-8-2, and 4-8-4 O gauge engines. Get just the I would be wary of Little Engines. Since the company was bought and moved to Colorado I've heard nothing but bad stories about their products, service, etc. If you're going to get castings I'd make sure they have them all at the time of order else you may have a devil of a time completing your projects. ---john. -- johnh@borland.com ------------------ This post contains 100% personal opinion! "...there are at least 9 Redwood Drives in Santa Cruz county, plus 5 Roads, 4 Avenues, 3 Places, 3 Streets, 2 Terraces, 2 Ways, and 1 each of a Lane and a Circle, all, presumably named for the Redwood Tree." -S.C. County Place Names From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys.dt.navy.mil!not-for-mail Mon Jan 10 22:34:08 EST 1994 Article: 3232 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys.dt.navy.mil!not-for-mail From: knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Knaell) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe drive belt Date: 10 Jan 1994 20:17:50 -0500 Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD Lines: 14 Message-ID: <2gsunuINN31u@oasys.dt.navy.mil> References: <99@landau.win.net> <1994Jan10.094531.180@flying-disk.com> Reply-To: knaell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ken Knaell) NNTP-Posting-Host: oasys.dt.navy.mil In rec.crafts.metalworking, frisbie@flying-disk.com writes: >> Can anyone advise me regarding a leather drive belt on a 10" Sheldon lathe? [stuff deleted, then the following response:] >By the way, the folks at Logan are very nice. I gather that [stuff deleted] >despite the fact that it is 50 years old. Isn't this nice? I also had a very unexpecedly nice experience with Atlas Press Co. regarding gear changes for an old lathe that they made only for a couple of years when they changed from manual change gears to quick change gears. The gentleman there sent me a xeroxed copy (many pages) of all the gear changes and thread feeds possible with this old unit at no cost. I feel like I owed him a major favor and called him back afterward to thank him. ken knaell From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ufo!joes Mon Jan 10 22:34:09 EST 1994 Article: 3233 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ufo!joes From: joes@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Joseph Stoltzfus) Subject: Re: Thread-cutting Message-ID: <1994Jan11.012742.488@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA) References: Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 01:27:42 GMT Lines: 27 In article jjhenry@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Henry) writes: >Does anyone know of a way to use a metric thread dial to cut english >threads (on a metric lathe) or how to use a english thread dial to cut >english threads (on an english lathe)? Perhaps someone has devised a >formula? > >Metal Meister One reason that the conversion factor between metric and US Customary was changed a few years ago was for the benefit of machinists and machine-tool makers. It used to be that 1 yard = 3600/3937 meter. Now, 1 inch = 25.4 millimeters. If your lucky, you may have a pair of change gears with 127 and 50 teeth; that will change centimeters and inches. With some ingenuity in setting up the rest of the gears, you can solve your problem. Since 127 is prime, without 127 teeth or an integer multiple, you're outaluck. OK, folks, show me another way. Joe Sz. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ufo!joes Mon Jan 10 22:34:10 EST 1994 Article: 3234 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ufo!joes From: joes@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Joseph Stoltzfus) Subject: Re: lathe drive belt Message-ID: <1994Jan11.013938.866@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA) References: <99@landau.win.net> <758113374snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 01:39:38 GMT Lines: 24 In article <758113374snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk writes: >In article <99@landau.win.net> jrl@landau.win.net writes: > >> Can anyone advise me regarding a leather drive belt on a 10" Sheldon lathe? (Stuff deleted) > >I'm not aware of a "sectional" replacement for flat belts, as you can get for >V belts. This means you either assemble the belt on the machine (by sewing, >or metal clips for big belts) or you will need to split the headstock. > > _ Andy Dingley > / ) ' ,_ _, / _ ) _/_ Codesmiths of Newcastle >/_ / / / / (_) /_) (_) /_ dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk > (_) +44 091 230 1695 You don't need to sew the belt, or use clips. You can bevel the ends and use glue. At least if the space around the belt isn't hopelessly crowded. I replaced a flat drive belt on a 9" or 10"" South Bend lathe a few years ago. It's really not that difficult. Joe Sz. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel!rat!zimmer!news Mon Jan 10 22:34:11 EST 1994 Article: 3235 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel!rat!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: Storing usable scrap; ideas needed Message-ID: Sender: news@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 02:38:07 GMT Lines: 19 Who's got the best scrap storage system? I'm cleaning out my shop... the pile of metal scraps on the floor has become a rather large stalagmite that is interfering with the work. But I hate to throw any of the scrap away, even the little bits of a couple inches in length. The scrap yard is $5 worth of gas away so I tend to save it all. How do you store your metal? I have a rack for the pieces over 4-feet long, and am considering making another rack for the pieces from 2 to 4-feet long. But what about the pile of bits? Buckets would work, but then the one piece I might use will get lost in the bottom and I'll end up spending that $5 on gas to go get my $5 minimum at the metal yard.... Should I just give up on those and turn them over to the fishermen for sinkers? ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!vanbc.wimsey.com!not-for-mail Tue Jan 11 12:50:13 EST 1994 Article: 3236 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!vanbc.wimsey.com!not-for-mail From: mfraser@vanbc.wimsey.com (Mark Fraser) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: CNC software Date: 10 Jan 1994 21:23:06 -0800 Organization: Wimsey Information Services Lines: 11 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2gtd3q$t8t@vanbc.wimsey.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vanbc.wimsey.com Who uses what packages on their pc to drive stepper motors, for example on mills, lathes etc? I am told that Ability Systems in PA make a good package, what else exists? What is the collective exper ience with the Ability package? Anyone got a package for sale? Any articles hiding at an FTP site/ Cheers and thanks / mark From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Tue Jan 11 12:50:15 EST 1994 Article: 3237 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: CNC software Date: 11 Jan 1994 07:50:32 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 13 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2gtlo8INNgsp@lynx.unm.edu> References: <2gtd3q$t8t@vanbc.wimsey.com> Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: algodones.unm.edu > Who uses what packages on their pc to drive stepper motors, for > example on mills, lathes etc? I am told that Ability Systems in PA > make a good package, what else exists? What is the collective exper > ience with the Ability package? > > Anyone got a package for sale? > > Any articles hiding at an FTP site/ I would also like to know pricing, and maint. agreements... EBo -- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!merlin!mel.dit.csiro.au!its.csiro.au!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!wabbit.cc.uow.edu.au!mac192f.uow.edu.au!CNN Tue Jan 11 12:50:16 EST 1994 Article: 3238 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!merlin!mel.dit.csiro.au!its.csiro.au!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!wabbit.cc.uow.edu.au!mac192f.uow.edu.au!CNN From: ian_kirby.engineering_po@central-gw.uow.edu.au (Ian Kirby) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Steam question Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 11 Jan 1994 14:18:52 +1100 Organization: University of Wollongong Lines: 21 Sender: news@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au In article <2gs3vg$com@sbctri.sbc.com>, tadams@sbc.com (Tom. Adams 529-7860) wrote: > > A friend of mine asks that I post this question. If you can > help, please reply to "Will_Chorley@sbctri.sbc.com" > > Where might I find (free) technical information regarding the > suitability of various O ring materials for various applications. > More specifically is an O ring of Buna-N appropriate for use > as a valve gland seal exposed 100 - 200 psi steam. If not, what > material is recommended? > > -- > Tom Adams Southwestern Bell Technology Resources > Telephone:314-529-7860 Fax:314-529-7573 > Use this email address -->> tadams@sbctri.sbc.com <<<--- Most of the people I know in the hobby swear by "VITON" O-rings for this purpose. Mind you, they need maintenance, like most other things! After some time, they will develop flats on the side exposed to motion, and they also tend to harden. When they start to leak, change them! Regards, Ian Kirby. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Tue Jan 11 12:50:17 EST 1994 Article: 3239 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: stuck tapers Date: 11 Jan 1994 11:58:19 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 35 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2gu48r$mhq@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: <11087@blue.cis.pitt.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk In article , pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) writes: |> In article <11087@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, pgist+@pitt.edu (Philip G |> Isaac) |> wrote: |> |> > Can someone help with the "stuck-taper" problem? I have two stuck |> |> > tapers which have not yet yielded to efforts to free them. |> > |> A last resort solution is to put a propane torch on it. The idea is |> to |> expand the outside (female) shaft before the inner taper expands, so |> |> use a large soft flame to heat the entire shaft, and be ready to |> knock the |> taper out after about 30 seconds of heating. The expansion should |> loosen |> it, |> and it will help free rust or old pitch deposits too. |> |> It's a last resort because it might distort the shaft if it was |> machined |> with some residual stress. Use gentle well-distributed heating to |> try to |> avoid this. Before trying a torch, try a hot, wet cloth on the outer taper, with something cold on the inner (dry ice? or a salt/ice mix). Extreme heat is likely to cause distortion. -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Tue Jan 11 12:50:18 EST 1994 Article: 3240 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe drive belt Date: 11 Jan 1994 13:20:34 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 9 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2gu932$s5q@oak.oakland.edu> References: <1994Jan11.013938.866@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In addition to the solutions suggested for reconditioning leather and sewing or gluing new leather belts, there are also flat synthetic belts on the market. I think this was convered in a 1993 issue of HSM; I'll check whedn I get home. As I recall, these are available in glued and stiched versions. --mike From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!wkaiser Tue Jan 11 12:50:19 EST 1994 Article: 3241 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!wkaiser From: wkaiser@mtholyoke.edu (William F. Kaiser) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Steam question Date: 11 Jan 1994 14:18:36 GMT Organization: Mount Holyoke College Lines: 47 Message-ID: <2gucfs$qq0@slab.mtholyoke.edu> References: <2gs3vg$com@sbctri.sbc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mhc.mtholyoke.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Tom. Adams 529-7860 (tadams@sbc.com) wrote: > Where might I find (free) technical information regarding the > suitability of various O ring materials for various applications. > More specifically is an O ring of Buna-N appropriate for use > as a valve gland seal exposed 100 - 200 psi steam. If not, what > material is recommended? I got the following information from my local O ring dealer a couple of weeks ago. STANDARD MATERIALS Buna-N Nitrile The standard for most general applications: petroleum base lubricants, hydraulic oils, gasoline, fuels, alcohol, L.P. gasses, water and many other media. Temperature Range: -40 to +275 F Viton High temperature toughness, stability and compatibility with a wide range of fluid and chemical types including acids, oils, fuels, solvents and gasses. Available in green and rust colored. Temp. Range -65 to +500 F. Silicone Compatible with a variety of fluids, air, oxygen, ozone, and other media for extremes of low and high temperature applications. Temp. Range -80 to +450 F. Neoprene Recommended for refrigeration freon gasses, carbon dioxide, chlorine, ozone, sunlight exposure and for use as drive belts. FDA approved for food and beverages. Odorless, tasteless, non-toxic. Temp. Range -80 to +260 F. Ethylene-Propylene For hot water, steam acids, alcohols, alkalis, keytones, phosphate esters, brake fluids, drive belts and exposure to oxygen, ozone and weathering. Temp range -67 to +300 F Bill Kaiser wkaiser@mhc.mtholyoke.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Tue Jan 11 12:50:20 EST 1994 Article: 3242 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: stuck tapers Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1994Jan11.143535.29312@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <11087@blue.cis.pitt.edu> <2gu48r$mhq@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 09:35:33 -0500 Lines: 58 In article <2gu48r$mhq@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk>, writes: > In article , > pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) writes: > |> In article <11087@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, pgist+@pitt.edu (Philip G > |> Isaac) > |> wrote: > |> > |> > Can someone help with the "stuck-taper" problem? I have two stuck > |> |> > tapers which have not yet yielded to efforts to free them. > |> > > |> A last resort solution is to put a propane torch on it. The idea is > |> to > |> expand the outside (female) shaft before the inner taper expands, so > |> |> use a large soft flame to heat the entire shaft, and be ready to > |> knock the > |> taper out after about 30 seconds of heating. The expansion should > |> loosen > |> it, > |> and it will help free rust or old pitch deposits too. > |> > |> It's a last resort because it might distort the shaft if it was > |> machined > |> with some residual stress. Use gentle well-distributed heating to > |> try to > |> avoid this. > > Before trying a torch, try a hot, wet cloth on the outer taper, with > something cold on the inner (dry ice? or a salt/ice mix). > > Extreme heat is likely to cause distortion. > > -- > > David Jenkins > > * I'd rather be steaming... * One way to get something real cold, real fast is to use 'Quick Freeze'. This is sold in aerosols at most electronics stores (Warning: Radio Shack sells small cans for big bucks). It is used to locate thermal intermittents in electronic circuits. It uses the same propellent as photographic aerosol 'Dusters', only it spits out liquid, not gas. If you can find dusters cheap, just turn the can upside down for the same effect. On a small area, you can drop to -40 C in a few seconds. I have used this to unstick small tapers and to cool drill bits when drilling plastic. The new stuff is supposed to be ozone friendly, but it can be pricey to use in any big way. A 12 oz. can is $7-$8. I haven't tried it for shrink fitting, but it should work on small stuff. I don't have compressed air in my shop (yet), so I clean up most of my chips (no fine dust) with a vacuum. I keep a couple of cans of 'Duster' around to blow out small holes, and flip 'em upside down for cooling. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!world!pbrady Tue Jan 11 12:50:22 EST 1994 Article: 3243 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!world!pbrady From: pbrady@world.std.com (Paul Brady) Subject: test...pls ignore Message-ID: Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 03:11:14 GMT Lines: 1 test...sorry.... From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!csd.unb.ca!upei.ca!upei.ca!not-for-mail Tue Jan 11 12:50:22 EST 1994 Article: 3244 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!csd.unb.ca!upei.ca!upei.ca!not-for-mail From: caastanl@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Alan Stanley) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Iron Date: 11 Jan 1994 12:30:38 -0400 Organization: University of Prince Edward Island Lines: 9 Message-ID: <2guk7e$5k@atlas.cs.upei.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cs.upei.ca I've managed to find a few wrought iron spikes in broken down wooden dam sites. The spikes have varied in length from about a foot to about two feet in length and are about 9/16 in diameter. They're lots of fun to play with but I can't anything like the quantity you'd need to do any kind of production work. Alan Stanley Queens County Blacksmith Shop From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Tue Jan 11 19:29:22 EST 1994 Article: 3245 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Storing usable scrap; ideas needed Message-ID: <1994Jan11.085131.181@flying-disk.com> Date: 11 Jan 94 08:51:31 PST References: Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 45 In article , gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: > Who's got the best scrap storage system? > How do you store your metal? I have a rack for the pieces over 4-feet >60" Standing on end, leaning against the wall in a corner. 36-60" Horizontal on large hooks (made from 1/2" pipe fittings) mounted behind and below my lathe. I can easily see the end of each piece as the end of the lathe is against the garage door. 16-36" Standing on end in a 5 gallon bucket that I sub-divided with assorted lengths of 3" ABS plastic sewer pipe. The shortest pipes are even with the top of the bucket, with the longest ones being about 30" long. Seven pieces nest nicely in a hexagon shape and fit (with a bit of trimming at the bottom) in the bucket. The pieces of ABS pipe are essential to keep the pieces of metal reasonably upright. ABS sewer pipe cuts and glues nicely -- a good choice for this job. I also mounted the bucket on a 5-wheel dolly that had been used under a 45-gallon trash can. Now I can shove it into a corner when I don't need it. (I have a second one for aluminum and plastic.) <16" On heavy-duty wooden shelves with the ends of the stock pointed out into the room. I try to keep it sorted with the following scheme: Steel on one shelf, Aluminum on another. Rounds at one end, flats/squares at the other. Flats/squares along the shelf in order by thickness. This storage scheme evolved as I acquired more stock and had to figure out where to put it. It did not come from any grand plan. I simply wanted to minimize the floor area used, while not losing track of useful stock. "Special" stock (drill rod, ground flat stock, etc.) is stored separately in a more protected area. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!cyber!barts Tue Jan 11 19:29:25 EST 1994 Article: 3246 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!cyber!barts From: barts@cyber.Eng.Sun.COM (Bart Smaalders) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Storing usable scrap; ideas needed Date: 11 Jan 1994 17:12:50 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: cyber In-reply-to: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU's message of Tue, 11 Jan 1994 02:38:07 GMT Build a wooden box (or stack multiple boxes with access space between them) and place the box on casters. Keep the depth reasonable so you can find things, and slide the whole mess under the workbench. I've got a couple of hundred pounds of brass scrap stored that way. - Bart From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!cyber!barts Tue Jan 11 19:29:26 EST 1994 Article: 3247 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!cyber!barts From: barts@cyber.Eng.Sun.COM (Bart Smaalders) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Steam question Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 11 Jan 1994 17:20:26 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA Lines: 15 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: cyber In-reply-to: ian_kirby.engineering_po@central-gw.uow.edu.au's message of 11 Jan 1994 14:18:52 +1100 > Most of the people I know in the hobby swear by "VITON" O-rings for this > purpose. Mind you, they need maintenance, like most other things! After > some time, they will develop flats on the side exposed to motion, and they > also tend to harden. When they start to leak, change them! These work really well as long as the steam is not overly hot. Don't try using O-rings if the steam is really superheated (500 F+). Viton has some nasty breakdown products. I've been using Teflon string packing in my 2" x 2.5" x 2 single-acting steam launch engine; the steam temp gets to 490 F or so if I slow down the boat suddenly after running hard for a hour or two. This is about the limit from what I hear (Viton is also a fluoro-elastomer). - Bart From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf Tue Jan 11 19:29:28 EST 1994 Article: 3248 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf From: jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) Subject: Re: Induction furnace questions. Organization: Control Data Systems Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 17:46:10 GMT Message-ID: References: <2gr2l4$e9a@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> <758239317snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@cdsmail.cdc.com (News Poster) Lines: 14 |> BTW - What does oxy-acetylene cost in the US ? In the UK it's prohibitive for |> low-use DIY purposes. The gas is affordable, but the bottle rentals are |> extortionate. |> |> _ Andy Dingley |> / ) ' ,_ _, / _ ) _/_ Codesmiths of Newcastle Many supply shops sell tanks in addition to leasing them out. This is good for DIY use since it's nice to have the tanks always available, but you (at least me) don't use that much gas. Most shops that use a lot of gas would lease since, as I understand it, the cost is not that great as long as you don't keep the tanks over 30 days or so. I think I paid about $200 for my tanks (80 cf O2, 60 Ac I think) about 15 years ago. The cost has gone up quite a bit since then. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!heimdall!sdrc.com!brian.morgan Tue Jan 11 19:29:31 EST 1994 Article: 3249 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!heimdall!sdrc.com!brian.morgan From: brian.morgan@sdrc.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Metals sources in Cincinnati area Message-ID: <6043@heimdall.sdrc.com> Date: 11 Jan 94 16:57:36 GMT Sender: news@heimdall.sdrc.com Distribution: usa Organization: sdrc Lines: 6 I am interested in starting to make my own knives (hunting, throwing), but don't know where to go to get some steel to get started in the Cincinnati area. Any suggestions? Thanks, Brian From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck Tue Jan 11 19:29:34 EST 1994 Article: 3250 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck From: okunewck@pds16 (Phil OKunewick) Subject: Re: Iron Availability? Message-ID: Sender: news@cse.psu.edu (Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: pds16.cse.psu.edu Reply-To: okunewck@cse.psu.edu Organization: Random, at best References: <2gjpotINNmbc@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu> <758112492snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 19:06:13 GMT Lines: 19 dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk writes: > >Wrought iron is initially produced as "merchant bar". This is the "pig iron" >of wrought iron, a very raw form of metal that's not much use for anything >except trading to metal refiners for further processing. It has a huge great >fibrous structure, with big slag intrusions. Trivia: I was told that the term "pig iron" dates back to the iron furnace days. When the newly-refined iron was ready to be taken from the furnace, pouring areas were dug in the sand around the furnace. The furnace was then opened and the molten iron flowed out of the furnace into these molds. The flows and molds resembled piglets suckling on a mother pig, hence the name "pig iron". This would be the rawest form of iron, full of all sorts or impurities and in need of further refinement. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!srgenprp!monson Tue Jan 11 19:29:36 EST 1994 Article: 3251 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!srgenprp!monson From: monson@sad.hp.com (Tom Monson) Subject: Handgun fabrication Summary: want plans to machine own handguns Sender: news@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (News Administrator) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 20:28:48 GMT Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.4] Lines: 10 Keywords: Does anyone know of plans for fabricating handguns, say a copy of an old Colt, S&W, etc., complete with dimensions, materials, heat treatment, metal finishes, etc? Seems like a great winter project. I am aware of places which sell kits, but I'm curious about scratch fabrication. monson@hpsad.sad.hp.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!venice!wp-sp.nba.trw.com!batman!jharres Tue Jan 11 19:29:38 EST 1994 Article: 3252 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!venice!wp-sp.nba.trw.com!batman!jharres From: jharres@batman.bmd.trw.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Steam engine design book wanted Message-ID: <1994Jan11.134950.81@batman> Date: 11 Jan 94 13:49:50 MST Lines: 10 I've found a reference to a book titled "Steam Engine Design" which is no longer available. Does anybody have a copy they would sell? Or does anybody know of an available book that covers the priciples of steam engine design and the common examples of the various designs? email please Thanks, Jim jharres@batman.bmd.trw.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!news.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab13.wwc.edu!johnric Tue Jan 11 19:29:41 EST 1994 Article: 3253 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!news.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab13.wwc.edu!johnric From: johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Metals sources in Cincinnati area Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 21:45:45 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 28 Distribution: usa Message-ID: References: <6043@heimdall.sdrc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: krh_krhlab13.wwc.edu In article <6043@heimdall.sdrc.com> brian.morgan@sdrc.com writes: > > I am interested in starting to make my own knives (hunting, throwing), but >don't know where to go to get some steel to get started in the Cincinnati area. > Any suggestions? > Thanks, > Brian This depends on your fabrication method. If you just want to grind them out of flat bar stock then you probably will have trouble finding stock. My experience has been that it is possible to find high-carbon steel in mill bar (ie with a HARD black scale) but I prefer the precision ground stock as I do not have as much warp in heat treat with it and I don't dull my grinding belts removing the scale. In any case first try using the phone book and calling any and all steel suppliers in the city. Also try custom leaf spring manufacturers. If that fails then pick up a knife magazine ( Knives Illustarated, or Blade) and choose one of the many suppliers who advertise. If you want to forge them, which is not all that expensive to start. Just go to just about any scrap dealer and buy spring steel (coil or leaf) for pennies a pound. A freind of mine just bought at least 20 feet of usable steel in coil spring form for 15 cents a pound. Considering that I bought my anvil for 50 dollars (halfsies with this same freind) and built a propane forge (small but very workable) for 60 dollars and I don't have to pay anyone for heat treating I think that this is the way you should go. Sorry if this sounds like an ad for smithing. Rick From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!chris Tue Jan 11 19:29:42 EST 1994 Article: 3254 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!chris From: chris@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Chris Demke) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: hydrogen ebrittlement Date: 11 Jan 1994 22:06:47 GMT Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA USA Lines: 14 Message-ID: <2gv7tn$6pf@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: 137.79.66.33 What is hydrogen embrittlement? The rocker arms on the motor of my dad's dragster are prone to break. They are aluminum with a hard anodize coating. My dad claims that they may have weakened by hydrogen embrittlement during the anodize pro- cess, but he couldn't give me a good answer as to what hydro- gen embrittlement is and what causes it. Any takers??? Chris Demke Sun Microsystems chris@sundude.jpl.nasa.gov From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!news.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!darkstar Tue Jan 11 19:29:43 EST 1994 Article: 3255 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!news.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!darkstar From: darkstar@u.washington.edu (Alden Hackmann) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Drill rod, O-1 vs W-1 Date: 11 Jan 1994 22:09:05 GMT Organization: University of Washington Lines: 19 Message-ID: <2gv821$oq3@news.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu I've read the catalogs, and I've read Machinery's Handbook, and I'm still confused by all the metallurgy terminology, so I'll go to some people who can tell me in English: Is O-1 or W-1 drill rod easier to machine? (Or, even better, can you tell me a source for centerless ground C12L14 or something of similar machinability?) (Take heart, folks: I'm asking fewer silly questions every month. 6 months ago I didn't even know what C12L14 was.) Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar@u.washington.edu Dept. of Pathology, University of Washington "Clear analysis of any situation is frequently mistaken for pessimism." I'm looking for an old Atlas-Clausing milling machine - got one for sale? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!dg-rtp!webo!esparc49!jon Tue Jan 11 19:29:45 EST 1994 Article: 3256 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!dg-rtp!webo!esparc49!jon From: jon@esparc49.webo.dg.com (Jonathan Owen) Subject: arc welders Message-ID: <1994Jan11.220126.22255@webo.dg.com> Sender: jon@esparc49 (Jonathan Owen) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 22:01:26 GMT Reply-To: jon@msc.ceo.dg.com Organization: Data General Corp. Lines: 22 I'm looking for some basic information on arc welders. I and a friend (who has a little bit of experience with arc welders) are looking to do a bit of automotive body work. We've done some looking through classified ads to see what we could find, and have been frankly suprised at the range of prices and features listed. Most of the ads don't have much detailed information about the welders, and we've been forced to admit that we don't know as much about the subject as we thought. Any help with the following questions would be appreciated: What type of welder is appropriate for welding body panels? I.e. what sort of current, etc., should we be looking for? Can we get one that runs on 110V or 220V, or must we look into gas-powered models? (which seem to be bigger and more expensive) What is a stick welder? (We think we have figured it out, but neither of us had heard the term before.) Ballpark ideas on what costs should be? Brands to look for or look out for? Finally, anybody looking to sell one that would be appropriate? Thanks for any and all help. I would appreciate e-mail responses, just to make sure I don't miss anything. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!uuneo.NeoSoft.com!blkbox.COM!rcollins Fri Jan 14 16:57:27 EST 1994 Article: 3257 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!uuneo.NeoSoft.com!blkbox.COM!rcollins From: rcollins@blkbox.COM (Rogers V. Collins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Induction furnace questions. Date: 12 Jan 1994 01:04:15 GMT Organization: NeoSoft Internet Services +1 713 684 5969 Lines: 8 Message-ID: <2gviag$rq3@uuneo.NeoSoft.com> References: <2gr2l4$e9a@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: blkbox.com Lindsay Publications, inc 815-935-5353 P.O. Box 538 Bradley, Il sells books on metal working new and old. a lot of reprints on old technology. I'm sure I've seen a book on induction furnaces in their catalog. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!tfs.com!michael Fri Jan 14 16:57:28 EST 1994 Article: 3258 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!tfs.com!michael From: michael@tfs.com (I can't believe I'm still using MS-DOS!) Subject: Re: Steam question Message-ID: Organization: TRW Financial Systems, Oakland, CA References: <2gs3vg$com@sbctri.sbc.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 01:54:24 GMT Lines: 14 In article <2gs3vg$com@sbctri.sbc.com> tadams@sbctri.sbc.com writes: >A friend of mine asks that I post this question. If you can >help, please reply to "Will_Chorley@sbctri.sbc.com" > >Where might I find (free) technical information regarding the >suitability of various O ring materials for various applications. I would guess that any O-ring manufacturer would be able to provide this information with great authority, and probably for free. -- ================================================================= ____ Michael Shiloh \ _/__ michael@tfs.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!malgudi.oar.net!witch!landau!jrl Fri Jan 14 16:57:31 EST 1994 Article: 3259 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!malgudi.oar.net!witch!landau!jrl Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Message-ID: <104@landau.win.net> References: <1994Jan11.012742.488@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> Reply-To: jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) From: jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 04:40:16 GMT Subject: Re: Thread-cutting Lines: 34 In article <1994Jan11.012742.488@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, Joseph Stoltzfus (joes@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov) writes: >In article jjhenry@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Henry) writes: >>Does anyone know of a way to use a metric thread dial to cut english >>threads (on a metric lathe) or how to use a english thread dial to cut >>english threads (on an english lathe)? Perhaps someone has devised a >>formula? >> >>Metal Meister > >One reason that the conversion factor between metric and US Customary >was changed a few years ago was for the benefit of machinists and >machine-tool makers. > >It used to be that 1 yard = 3600/3937 meter. >Now, 1 inch = 25.4 millimeters. > >If your lucky, you may have a pair of change gears with 127 >and 50 teeth; that will change centimeters and inches. >With some ingenuity in setting up the rest of the gears, you >can solve your problem. > >Since 127 is prime, without 127 teeth or an integer multiple, >you're outaluck. > I've seen articles in Model Engineer (but don't think I could find them again) based on the idea of approximating the ratio you need to cut the thread you want. In many cases you can get quite close by compounding with more available gearing. L.C. Mason in "Using the Small Lathe" asserts that using a 63 tooth gear instead of a 127 tooth for the converting gear is "near enough for most purposes, especially on a short length of thread". In this case the error is 1 part in 127. For most uses, I guess it's not really the length of thread that counts, but the length of engagement. For 1/2 inch of engagement, the error would be less than .005". From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!malgudi.oar.net!witch!landau!jrl Fri Jan 14 16:57:32 EST 1994 Article: 3260 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!malgudi.oar.net!witch!landau!jrl Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Message-ID: <106@landau.win.net> References: <6043@heimdall.sdrc.com> Reply-To: jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) From: jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 04:48:05 GMT Subject: Re: Metals sources in Cincinnati area Lines: 12 >In article <6043@heimdall.sdrc.com> brian.morgan@sdrc.com writes: >> >> I am interested in starting to make my own knives (hunting, throwing), but >>don't know where to go to get some steel to get started in the Cincinnati area. >> Any suggestions? >> Thanks, >> Brian I've seen lovely knives made from old files purchased at garage sales. --Joe From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!aio!sn3.jsc.nasa.gov!JACKSON Fri Jan 14 16:57:33 EST 1994 Article: 3261 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!aio!sn3.jsc.nasa.gov!JACKSON From: jackson@sn3.jsc.nasa.gov (JACKSON) Subject: Valves Message-ID: <1994Jan12.105039.27332@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Sender: usenet@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (USENET News Client) Reply-To: jackson@sn3.jsc.nasa.gov Organization: Organization, City, State, etc. Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 10:50:39 GMT Lines: 5 I am looking for a source of high pressure sub miniture solenoid, check, and relief valves. When I say high pressure I mean delta pressures of 300 to 500 psi. Even more obscurely a source of high pressure sub miniture pyrotechnic valves, which probably dont exist. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!aio!l23di.jsc.nasa.gov!jackson Fri Jan 14 16:57:34 EST 1994 Article: 3262 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!aio!l23di.jsc.nasa.gov!jackson From: jackson@snmail.jsc.nasa.gov (al jackson) Subject: Small Parts, Inc Message-ID: Lines: 3 Sender: usenet@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (USENET News Client) Organization: Solar System Exploration Division, NASA JSC Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 14:46:30 GMT Does Small Parts, Inc. publish a catalog? How much is it? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!unlinfo.unl.edu!mjj Fri Jan 14 16:57:36 EST 1994 Article: 3263 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!unlinfo.unl.edu!mjj From: mjj@unlinfo.unl.edu (michael jensen) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: hydrogen ebrittlement Date: 12 Jan 1994 15:27:00 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln Lines: 49 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2h14s4$610@crcnis1.unl.edu> References: <2gv7tn$6pf@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo2.unl.edu chris@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Chris Demke) writes: > What is hydrogen embrittlement? The rocker arms on the motor > of my dad's dragster are prone to break. They are aluminum > with a hard anodize coating. My dad claims that they may have > weakened by hydrogen embrittlement during the anodize pro- > cess, but he couldn't give me a good answer as to what hydro- > gen embrittlement is and what causes it. Any takers??? > Chris Demke > Sun Microsystems > chris@sundude.jpl.nasa.gov This doesn't sound like hydrogen embrittlement to me. It more then likely is a case of overstressing the rocker arms with a little creep and metal fatique throw in. From your post I can't give you a exact answer but there are things that you can look for in the broken parts that will help you find out what is causing the failures of the rocker arms. The first question would be are they breaking at a area of high stress consentration. This would be near a hole, a sharp bend or corner. How many cycles are they going through before they break. Aluminum that is subjected to stress cycles will eventually fail. It might take 6 million cycles in very low loadings situations, but in a much higher loading of the rocker arms this could be decreased greatly. And finally how hot do the rocker arms get. Maybe at the elevated temperatures in a racing engine the aluminum weakens, the ultimate strength is not as high. To answer your question about hyrogen embrittlement from the plating process. From Guidebook and Directory of Metal Finishing " All ferrous materials with a hardness greater than Rockwell C40 are subject to becoming brittle as a result of their absorption of hydrogen during the plating process." Aluminum is not a ferrous material. Anyway hydrogen is a impurity which causes internal cracks and weakens the metal. By the way, hydrogen embrittlement is a real problem in nuclear power plants. When the uranium has it's reaction it gives off hydrogen which is absorded into the stainless steel containment vessel walls. Mike J. -- Mike Jensen (MJJ@UNL.EDU) Chemistry Instrument Shop University of Nebraska - Lincoln (402) 472-3542 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep Fri Jan 14 16:57:37 EST 1994 Article: 3264 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep From: bleep@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (bui tho xuan) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: hydrogen ebrittlement Date: 12 Jan 1994 15:45:03 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Lines: 57 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2h15tv$rcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <2gv7tn$6pf@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> <2h14s4$610@crcnis1.unl.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ux1.cso.uiuc.edu mjj@unlinfo.unl.edu (michael jensen) writes: >chris@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Chris Demke) writes: > >> What is hydrogen embrittlement? The rocker arms on the motor >> of my dad's dragster are prone to break. They are aluminum >> with a hard anodize coating. My dad claims that they may have >> weakened by hydrogen embrittlement during the anodize pro- >> cess, but he couldn't give me a good answer as to what hydro- >> gen embrittlement is and what causes it. Any takers??? > >This doesn't sound like hydrogen embrittlement to me. Neither to me. But I can't say for sure unless I have the part in my hand to analize. > >To answer your question about hyrogen embrittlement from the plating >process. From Guidebook and Directory of Metal Finishing " All ferrous >materials with a hardness greater than Rockwell C40 are subject to >becoming brittle as a result of their absorption of hydrogen during >the plating process." Aluminum is not a ferrous material. Anyway >hydrogen is a impurity which causes internal cracks and weakens the >metal. Hydrogen can indeed causes embrittlement in aluminum (and most metals, for that matter). At least I hope so, 'cause this is a part of my research topic :-). The main problem is that the oxide layer in aluminum is impermeable to hydrogen. If there is a disruption to the oxide layer due to, say, corrosion or an ultrasonic field, you can put enough hydrogen into aluminum to create havoc. It is possible that hydrogen is introduced during the anodizing process (an oxidation procedure, not like plating), but as I said, to positively place the blame you'll need more detective work. tho p.s.: for a rather spectacular demonstration, place a piece of kitchen foil in an ultrasonic cleaner with water. Turn it on, and come back 15-30 minutes later. The foil should be broken into pieces (disappear in some cases). This is one of the common technique for charging hydrogen into aluminum. The other processes are plasma charging, or corrosion charging (with NaOH--lye). > >By the way, hydrogen embrittlement is a real problem in nuclear >power plants. When the uranium has it's reaction it gives off hydrogen >which is absorded into the stainless steel containment vessel walls. > > >Mike J. >-- >Mike Jensen (MJJ@UNL.EDU) >Chemistry Instrument Shop >University of Nebraska - Lincoln >(402) 472-3542 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!csd.unb.ca!peinet.pe.ca!peinet.pe.ca!not-for-mail Fri Jan 14 16:57:38 EST 1994 Article: 3265 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!csd.unb.ca!peinet.pe.ca!peinet.pe.ca!not-for-mail From: rukavina@bud.peinet.pe.ca (Peter Rukavina) Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Looking for address for Record-Marples Inc. Date: 12 Jan 1994 13:30:15 -0400 Organization: PEI Crafts Council, Charlottetown, Canada Lines: 18 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2h1c37$5qm@bud.peinet.pe.ca> Reply-To: info@crafts-council.pe.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: bud.peinet.pe.ca Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:30381 rec.crafts.metalworking:3265 I have an out-of-date catalogue for Record-Marples Inc. which gives an address in Lachine, PQ and a no-longer-working toll-free and regular telephone number. I've a feeling they've moved or closed their Canadian operation but have seen enough references to Record and Marples products to know they're still around somewhere. Can anyone supply me with a current address/phone? Thanks. -Peter -- -- I am Peter Rukavina at the PEI Crafts Council, Charlottetown, PEI, Canada -- Telephone at work (902) 566-1584, fax (902) 628-8740, at home (902) 368-2871 Electronic mail to peter@crafts-council.pe.ca or rukavina@peinet.pe.ca >> I COLLECT INFORMATION ON CRAFTS INDUSTRY SUPPLIERS. KNOW ANY? LET ME KNOW! << From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Fri Jan 14 16:57:39 EST 1994 Article: 3266 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: Looking for address for Record-Marples Inc. Message-ID: <1994Jan12.124154.29932@hemlock.cray.com> Followup-To: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Lines: 23 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: <2h1c37$5qm@bud.peinet.pe.ca> Distribution: na Date: 12 Jan 94 12:41:54 CST Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3266 rec.woodworking:30403 Peter Rukavina (rukavina@bud.peinet.pe.ca) wrote: : I have an out-of-date catalogue for Record-Marples Inc. which gives an : address in Lachine, PQ and a no-longer-working toll-free and regular telephone : number. I've a feeling they've moved or closed their Canadian operation : but have seen enough references to Record and Marples products to know they're : still around somewhere. : Can anyone supply me with a current address/phone? Interesting... I was delighted to find our local Sams Club had a load of Record #23 swivel base bench vises (genuine, made in England stuff here) with quick release in over the weekend. Expensive but wonderful... I bought one and noted the address on the carton was in Canada. I don't have it at work but will post it later if no-one else beats me to it... (This is assuming that the address is still current, of course) Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen Fri Jan 14 16:57:40 EST 1994 Article: 3267 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Handgun fabrication In-Reply-To: monson@sad.hp.com's message of Tue, 11 Jan 1994 20: 28:48 GMT Message-ID: Sender: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 20:40:05 GMT Lines: 21 >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Monson writes: Tom> Keywords: Tom> Does anyone know of plans for fabricating handguns, say a copy of an old Tom> Colt, S&W, etc., complete with dimensions, materials, heat treatment, Tom> metal finishes, etc? Seems like a great winter project. I am aware of Tom> places which sell kits, but I'm curious about scratch fabrication. Tom> monson@hpsad.sad.hp.com Please be aware that you will need a FFL Manufacturing license if you plan to proceed with this, or do you like striped pajamas as your daily attire? dion -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!erl-mac-18.mit.edu!jory Fri Jan 14 16:57:41 EST 1994 Article: 3268 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!erl-mac-18.mit.edu!jory From: jory bell Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: ss chainmail/welding query Date: 12 Jan 1994 21:31:44 GMT Organization: mit Lines: 32 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2h1q80$h0u@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: erl-mac-18.mit.edu X-UserAgent: Version 1.1.3 X-XXMessage-ID: X-XXDate: Wed, 12 Jan 94 21:39:23 GMT Basically, I am working on several chainmail projects and am in need of technical assistance. I perused the FAQ, and while there was much geteral metalworking info to be had but wanted to see if anyone had experience with my particular type o' problem/process. Specifically, I am seeking to close very small stainless rings (approximately 18-22 gauge) and cannot figure out how this is done. Ideally, I am looking to weld (not solder) the rings. Eventually, I will be working in larger gauges as well. Is welding this type of thing at all feasible/possible. In general, I am looking for sources for info (books, other publications, people-with-knowledge, etc) for this knowledge (welding small gauge stainless steel) and other chainmail fabrication technical information. My previous knowledge (which clearly leaves a lot to be desired) has been limited to what I could figure out on my own and from looking at some (indistinct) photographs. I have virtually no experience with soldering or welding metals (discounting electronics fabrication) so, I am really starting fro the ground up. However, I have access to some torches, etc (friend who makes jewelry) and would be willing to buy the right equipment if it will get the job done right... Also, I've read up some on welding. I've done several test pieces, first in a random copper alloy (allergic reaction... ouch) with about 3/8" rings, then 302ss with much smaller rings (sort of a bracelet sized test square). I thank you in advance for any assistance/guidance. jory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Fri Jan 14 16:57:42 EST 1994 Article: 3269 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Re: Handgun fabrication Message-ID: <1994Jan12.213622.9577@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 21:36:22 GMT Lines: 24 >Tom> Does anyone know of plans for fabricating handguns, say a copy of an old >Tom> Colt, S&W, etc., complete with dimensions, materials, heat treatment, >Tom> metal finishes, etc? Seems like a great winter project. I am aware of >Tom> places which sell kits, but I'm curious about scratch fabrication. > >Please be aware that you will need a FFL Manufacturing license if you >plan to proceed with this, or do you like striped pajamas as your >daily attire? Uh, not if they're non-functional replicas. So what if they're just one pin short of a "working" model, Hillary will have to catch me at it. Of course, if I *were* to get caught and end up in striped pajamas, I have the pleasure of knowing that her husband is getting closer every day to joining me, as his sleaziness is unfolded each night on the TV news :^) (Starting to sound like watergate, only bigger) -- -- Governments that don't trust honest people with weapons, deserve no trust. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!cam!wollack Fri Jan 14 16:57:43 EST 1994 Article: 3270 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!cam!wollack From: wollack@ssd.comm.mot.com (Ken Wollack) Subject: Re: Small Parts, Inc Reply-To: wollack@ssd.comm.mot.com Organization: Motorola LMPS Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 18:06:25 GMT Message-ID: <1994Jan12.180625.9657@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> References: Sender: news@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.1.56.104 Lines: 11 It is free. I just sent a request and was sent 1. In fact I never ordered and sent me a card asking me if I want another. They do have many, many hard to find parts. But... their prices are absolute retail. I do plan to order in future as I can't seem to find the machinable plastics they carry elsewhere. phone (305) 558-1255 fax 1-800 423-9009 P.O. Box 4650 Miami Lakes, FL 33014-9727 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck Fri Jan 14 16:57:44 EST 1994 Article: 3271 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck From: okunewck@pds16 (Phil OKunewick) Subject: Re: Handgun fabrication Message-ID: Sender: news@cse.psu.edu (Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: pds16.cse.psu.edu Reply-To: okunewck@cse.psu.edu Organization: Random, at best References: Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 22:18:29 GMT Lines: 33 monson@sad.hp.com (Tom Monson) writes: > >Does anyone know of plans for fabricating handguns, say a copy of an old >Colt, S&W, etc., complete with dimensions, materials, heat treatment, >metal finishes, etc? Seems like a great winter project. I am aware of >places which sell kits, but I'm curious about scratch fabrication. Speaking as a blackpowder shooter, it's a lot more fun if you make the gun yourself. Making a gun from scratch would be risky - you could make something very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. It's best to work your way up to a good firearm, making a few guns from partially completed kits before tackling a major project. I built a Philadelphia Derringer and a Colt .44 revolver from kits before I built a flintlock rifle. I also made a number of mistakes on the two handguns, mistakes I didn't repeat when I made the rifle. I even wound up redoing some work on the handguns afterward. The Philadelphia Derringer is an inexpensive starter, excellent for a first project. Dixie Gun Works (Knoxville, Tenn?) sells supplies for fabricating replica blackpowder firearms starting from practically any stage of completion. They take particular pride in the durability of their barrels. You should contact them and get their catalog; it has a lot of useful advice. Also: take a gun safety or hunting safety course if you haven't lately. Not only do you learn proper gun handling, you might also get the opportunity to see what can happen with badly-made guns. It's really scary. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Fri Jan 14 16:57:46 EST 1994 Article: 3272 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Re: Handgun fabrication Message-ID: <1994Jan12.225850.11009@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 22:58:50 GMT Lines: 26 >>Does anyone know of plans for fabricating handguns, say a copy of an old >>Colt, S&W, etc., complete with dimensions, materials, heat treatment, >>metal finishes, etc? Seems like a great winter project. I am aware of >>places which sell kits, but I'm curious about scratch fabrication. > > Dixie Gun Works (Knoxville, Tenn?) sells supplies for fabricating Union City, TN (sort of N.W. Tenn, north east of Memphis). They do have a neat place there! Do you happen to have the name of a place selling plans/dimensions for modern firearms? Any good books for the novice machinist? > Also: take a gun safety or hunting safety course if you haven't >lately. Not only do you learn proper gun handling, you might also get >the opportunity to see what can happen with badly-made guns. It's >really scary. I second that one. -Eric -- -- Governments that don't trust honest people with weapons, deserve no trust. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!mrtnt.ntrs.com!tntvax!bbw1 Fri Jan 14 16:57:47 EST 1994 Article: 3273 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!mrtnt.ntrs.com!tntvax!bbw1 Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Novice questions on melting Alumin(i)um Message-ID: <1994Jan12.162221.1@tntvax> From: bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com Date: 12 Jan 94 16:22:21 -0600 Organization: Northern Trust Company Lines: 24 I am putting together Gingerys charcoal furnace and have several questions about aluminum stock preperation prior to melting. Since it is too cold to play outside with the furnace I have turned my attention to gathering various forms of aluminum castings, extrusions, etc in anticipation of warmer weather. My questions are: How clean does the metal have to be before it is melted? Does paint have to be removed? grease? How about the decals on aluminum cans, or their residual content? (does beer improve the quality of aluminum?) Will any impurities rise to the surface of the melt to be skimmed or will they contaminate the metal? thanks in advance Barry -- Barry B. Wolinetz | Opinions, etc.... mine, not those of the Northern Trust Co. | Northern Trust. Chicago, Il | From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!argon!bej Fri Jan 14 16:57:48 EST 1994 Article: 3274 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!argon!bej From: bej@argon.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Bruce E Johnson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Handgun fabrication Date: 12 Jan 1994 23:14:00 GMT Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group Lines: 22 Message-ID: <2h207o$jvl@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> References: <1994Jan12.213622.9577@cascade.stanford.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: argon.gas.uug.arizona.edu There was a lengthy discussion of this subject about a month ago on rec.guns; the general consensus is that federal regulations don't prohibit you from making a functional weapon, as long as it isn't essentially, a machine gun, sawed off shotgun, or any other weapon that fed law prohibits, AS LONG AS you don't try to sell what you made. In other words, for personal consumption, anything goes. No FFL license required. State regs, however may vary widely But the best legal advice in this area is still: Obey the Eleventh Commandment! Bruce Johnson The University of Arizona bej@gas.uug.arizona.edu play johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu work My opininons, Mine, Mine, all Mine! Bwahahahaha! From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry Fri Jan 14 16:57:50 EST 1994 Article: 3275 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) Subject: Re: hydrogen ebrittlement Message-ID: <1994Jan12.204539.29931@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> Sender: nobody@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com (Nobody - UID must be 99999) Nntp-Posting-Host: hpcvxhp.cv.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.9] References: <2gv7tn$6pf@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 20:45:39 GMT Lines: 20 Chris Demke (chris@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov) wrote: : What is hydrogen embrittlement? As pointed out by the previous posters, it's possible but unlikely that the rocker arm problem is caused by hydrogen embrittlement of the Al alloy. : The rocker arms on the motor : of my dad's dragster are prone to break. They are aluminum : with a hard anodize coating. A layer of anodization can provide convenient nucleation sites for cracks, however my first suspicion would be the rest of the valve train. How close are the springs to binding? Is there enough spring travel left to allow a bit of float in the case of over-reving? Is he running solid or hydraulic lifters, and if hydraulic, is he sure they're not pumping up to the point of binding the coils? I assume these are roller rockers. Are the pivots staying free, or could they be siezing? Harry Phinney harry@cv.hp.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Fri Jan 14 16:57:51 EST 1994 Article: 3276 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: stuck tapers Message-ID: <1994Jan12.105324.1118@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 12 Jan 94 10:53:21 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) References: <11087@blue.cis.pitt.edu><2gu48r$m hq@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> <1994Jan11.143535.29312@ll.mit.edu> Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 32 In article <1994Jan11.143535.29312@ll.mit.edu>, Doug White writes: |>One way to get something real cold, real fast is to use 'Quick Freeze'. |>This is sold in aerosols at most electronics stores (Warning: Radio |>Shack sells small cans for big bucks). It is used to locate thermal |>intermittents in electronic circuits. It uses the same propellent as |>photographic aerosol 'Dusters', only it spits out liquid, not gas. |>If you can find dusters cheap, just turn the can upside down for the |>same effect. On a small area, you can drop to -40 C in a few seconds. |>I have used this to unstick small tapers and to cool drill bits when |>drilling plastic. The new stuff is supposed to be ozone friendly, but |>it can be pricey to use in any big way. A 12 oz. can is $7-$8. I |>haven't tried it for shrink fitting, but it should work on small stuff. A less pricey thing to try is the freezer in the kitchen. Or, here in Wyoming, throw it outside overnight! It might take quite a bit of quick-freeze to cool a lathe tailstock ram. I'd suggest being careful about rust caused by condensation regardless of cooling method. |>I don't have compressed air in my shop (yet), so I clean up most of my |>chips (no fine dust) with a vacuum. I keep a couple of cans of 'Duster' |>around to blow out small holes, and flip 'em upside down for cooling. Some say cleaning with a vacuum is preferable in any case, since blowing chips/dust around can cram junk into places it normally wouldn't go, as well as merely re-distributing a mess over a wider area. |>Doug White |>MIT Lincoln Laboratory BTW, are you familiar with ancient computing at Lincoln Labs? I think we ended up with your old IBM 709 many years ago (parts, never ran it). From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!mack.einet.com!mack.einet.com!not-for-mail Fri Jan 14 16:57:53 EST 1994 Article: 3277 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!mack.einet.com!mack.einet.com!not-for-mail From: sao@mack.einet.com (Stan Orrell) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small Parts, Inc Date: 12 Jan 1994 18:55:41 -0700 Organization: Engineering International Inc., Public Internet Access Lines: 22 Message-ID: <2h29mt$d8p@mack.einet.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: mack.einet.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] al jackson (jackson@snmail.jsc.nasa.gov) wrote: : : Does Small Parts, Inc. publish a catalog? : How much is it? You bet. A very nice resource it is, too. Small Parts Inc. 6891 N.E. Third Ave. P.O. Box 381966 Miami, FL 33238-1966 tel (305) 751-0856 fax (305) 751-6217 Fax them a request, with your institution as return mail address. I have no connection with them, except as an occasional customer. Stan i.e. Stan Orrell sao@einet.com Artificial intelligence appears to be our only hope. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Fri Jan 14 16:57:54 EST 1994 Article: 3278 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Re: hydrogen ebrittlement Message-ID: <1994Jan13.021815.14110@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 02:18:15 GMT Lines: 28 >: The rocker arms on the motor >: of my dad's dragster are prone to break. They are aluminum >: with a hard anodize coating. > >A layer of anodization can provide convenient nucleation sites for >cracks, however my first suspicion would be the rest of the valve train. >How close are the springs to binding? Is there enough spring travel >left to allow a bit of float in the case of over-reving? Is he running >solid or hydraulic lifters, and if hydraulic, is he sure they're not >pumping up to the point of binding the coils? I assume these are roller >rockers. Are the pivots staying free, or could they be siezing? Not to discredit this discussion (I'm learning a lot from it), but I was told long ago that aluminum rockers are "disposable" parts when used for these applications. They just aren't made to stand up to the kind of abuse they're given, for a long time. The reason you use them is to tweak the last drop of (engine speed) from the valvetrain. Now, back to the regularly scheduled program.... (it's a good discussion). -Eric -- -- Governments that don't trust honest people with weapons, deserve no trust. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Fri Jan 14 16:57:55 EST 1994 Article: 3279 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Milling Dovetails Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 16:29:43 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 14 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk Does anyone have any experience of milling small dovetail slides? I am getting a very bad finish, with rippling, particularly on the angular face, even though my machine (Centec 2A) is very solid and all the free slides are locked. I know that it has been suggested that you should not cut on the side and face of these cutters in the same pass, but I get a bad finish even if I only use the angled side of the cutter. I suspect a lack of rigidity but I can't find any obvious slop in the setup. I am milling a tail about 8mm deep in FCMS with a 1" x 60¡ cutter. My only reservation is that the cutter has a rather slender shank (about 10mm for 20mm of its length. I've tried changing the coolant and taking slow fine cuts, to no avail. Help! Clive Washington. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!noc.near.net!lard.ftp.com!sailing.ftp.com!jay Fri Jan 14 16:57:56 EST 1994 Article: 3280 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!noc.near.net!lard.ftp.com!sailing.ftp.com!jay From: jay@ftp.com (Jay Stryker) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Storing usable scrap; ideas needed Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 20:16:39 Organization: FTP Software, North Andover, Massachusetts Lines: 29 Message-ID: <940112201639@sailing.ftp.com> References: Reply-To: jay@ftp.com NNTP-Posting-Host: sailing.ftp.com Keywords: Scrap, storage NNTP-Software: PC/TCP NNTP In article gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: >>Who's got the best scrap storage system? I'm cleaning out my shop... >>the pile of metal scraps on the floor has become a rather large >>stalagmite that is interfering with the work. But I hate to throw any >>of the scrap away, even the little bits of a couple inches in length. >>The scrap yard is $5 worth of gas away so I tend to save it all. >>How do you store your metal? I have a rack for the pieces over 4-feet >>long, and am considering making another rack for the pieces from 2 to >>4-feet long. But what about the pile of bits? Buckets would work, but >>then the one piece I might use will get lost in the bottom and I'll >>end up spending that $5 on gas to go get my $5 minimum at the metal >>yard.... Should I just give up on those and turn them over to the >>fishermen for sinkers? My stock materials depot ("hobbyist scrap pile") within and outside of my workshop uses a sorting method which works for me...(most of the time). Stock is classified into sheet and flat, round and pipe, square/rectangular, channel, angle, threaded, interesting castings, and misc. These end up being placed more by shape than material, so steel and brass and plastic sheets are in the same general area. I have vertical racks for the longer stock items with small boxes in front for the short offcuts. So, if I need some 1/2" (13mm) round steel, there is just one place to look. For welding I also keep an "unclasifiable" box of steel for gussets and plates and general little bits that are better than cutting them from stock each time. If you use buckets, don't load them too full. Stack two or more partly filled ones...if the top one doesn't have the bit you need you look in the one underneath it. If you're gonna mess with metals, you're gonna hafta move 'em around! :) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Fri Jan 14 16:57:58 EST 1994 Article: 3281 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small Parts, Inc Message-ID: <1994Jan12.155503.1119@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 12 Jan 94 15:55:02 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) References: Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 11 In article , jackson@snmail.jsc.nasa.gov (al jackson) writes: |> |>Does Small Parts, Inc. publish a catalog? |>How much is it? I just called them at (305) 557-8222 and asked for one. It is free, and is reputedly more fun than the Sears catalog. Of course now that Sears has quit publishing a catalog, we need a better comparison! Jim From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Fri Jan 14 16:57:59 EST 1994 Article: 3282 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Milling Dovetails Message-ID: <1994Jan12.220322.182@flying-disk.com> Date: 12 Jan 94 22:03:22 PST References: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 22 In article , pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) writes: > Does anyone have any experience of milling small dovetail slides? > I am getting a very bad finish, with rippling, particularly on the angular > face, even though my machine (Centec 2A) is very solid and all the free > slides are locked. I made a new cross slide for my 10" Logan 200 lathe and had no such trouble with the dovetail slides. The material was cast iron (from Metal Lathe Accessories -- very good quality) and the machine was a big (by home standards) Kerney & Trecker (sp?) mill (courtesy of the local college). At the suggestion of the instructor, the only coolant/lubricant I used was solvent (kerosene?) applied with a dropper bottle. I am *very* happy with the results. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Fri Jan 14 16:58:00 EST 1994 Article: 3283 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: ss chainmail/welding query Distribution: world References: <2h1q80$h0u@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 12 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 00:55:18 +0000 Message-ID: <758422518snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk I can't help wondering, with all this chain mail being made, if there isn't some way of using an inductively coupled resistance butt-welder ? If such a device could be produced, it would weld up these countless rings in no time. BTW - About how many rings are there in a piece ? -- _ Andy Dingley / ) ' ,_ _, / _ ) _/_ Codesmiths of Newcastle /_ / / / / (_) /_) (_) /_ dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (_) +44 091 230 1695 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Fri Jan 14 16:58:01 EST 1994 Article: 3284 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Novice questions on melting Alumin(i)um References: <1994Jan12.162221.1@tntvax> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 12 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 00:59:35 +0000 Message-ID: <758422775snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <1994Jan12.162221.1@tntvax> bbw1@tntvax.ntrs.com writes: > How clean does the metal [aluminium] have to be before it is melted? If it's burnable (ie. paint), it will come off in the slag. If it's burnable, it *may* also not be the sort of stuff you want to be around... If it's metallic, it could be an impurity you don't want in the final melt. Odd bits of steel won't melt, but if you melt down old castings & auto parts you might find yourself with the odd steel bolt as an unwanted inclusion ! BTW - A mazak (pot metal) casting that slipped in with all those nice alloy ones will really foul things up. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!aio!l23di.jsc.nasa.gov!jackson Fri Jan 14 16:58:03 EST 1994 Article: 3285 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!aio!l23di.jsc.nasa.gov!jackson From: jackson@snmail.jsc.nasa.gov (al jackson) Subject: Re: Small Parts, Inc Message-ID: Lines: 31 Sender: usenet@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (USENET News Client) Organization: Solar System Exploration Division, NASA JSC References: <2h29mt$d8p@mack.einet.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 12:31:55 GMT In article <2h29mt$d8p@mack.einet.com> sao@mack.einet.com (Stan Orrell) writes: >From: sao@mack.einet.com (Stan Orrell) >Subject: Re: Small Parts, Inc >Date: 12 Jan 1994 18:55:41 -0700 >al jackson (jackson@snmail.jsc.nasa.gov) wrote: >: >: Does Small Parts, Inc. publish a catalog? >: How much is it? >You bet. A very nice resource it is, too. >Small Parts Inc. >6891 N.E. Third Ave. >P.O. Box 381966 >Miami, FL 33238-1966 >tel (305) 751-0856 >fax (305) 751-6217 >Fax them a request, with your institution as return mail address. >I have no connection with them, except as an occasional customer. >Stan i.e. Stan Orrell sao@einet.com >Artificial intelligence appears to be our only hope. I notice the above address is different from the one in the FAQ. Which is right? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!news.dtc.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm Fri Jan 14 16:58:03 EST 1994 Article: 3286 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!news.dtc.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm From: rogerm@fc.hp.com (Roger Mitchell) Subject: Re: Steam engine design book wanted Sender: news@fc.hp.com (news daemon) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 14:57:26 GMT References: <1994Jan11.134950.81@batman> Nntp-Posting-Host: ux0046.fc.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.4] Lines: 14 jharres@batman.bmd.trw.com wrote: : I've found a reference to a book titled "Steam Engine Design" which is : no longer available. Does anybody have a copy they would sell? Or does : anybody know of an available book that covers the principles of steam : engine design and the common examples of the various designs? Live Steam and Modeltec Magazines have had numerous articles on the design of just about all known types of steam engines including those used for traction, railway, stationary, marine, and even aircraft use. Roger Mitchell President and Master Mechanic Fort Collins Municipal Railway From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Fri Jan 14 16:58:05 EST 1994 Article: 3287 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Small Parts, Inc Message-ID: <1994Jan13.083057.183@flying-disk.com> Date: 13 Jan 94 08:30:57 PST References: <2h29mt$d8p@mack.einet.com> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 42 In article , jackson@snmail.jsc.nasa.gov (al jackson) writes: >>Small Parts Inc. >>6891 N.E. Third Ave. >>P.O. Box 381966 >>Miami, FL 33238-1966 > >>tel (305) 751-0856 >>fax (305) 751-6217 > I notice the above address is different from the one in the > FAQ. > Which is right? The address on the back of their current catalog is: 13980 N.W. 58th Court P.O. Box 4650 Miami Lakes, FL 33014-0650 (305) 557-8222 (Voice) (800) 423-9009 (FAX) They also give a second phone number inside: (305) 558-1255 Yes, when I look through their catalog, I too feel like I did when I was a kid looking through the Sears catalog. I use a highlighter pen and yellow stickies (tm) to mark all the neat stuff I want. Then, when I have a project that absolutely requires that I place an order, I fill up the rest of the order blank with "neat stuff". My wife reported hearing a reference at work to "brass balls", so I ordered a pair of 1" brass balls from Small Parts for her. She keeps them on her desk on top of a 5" disk of black velvet. The guys don't give her any trouble now. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!sgi!odin!charlie.neu.sgi.com!jon Fri Jan 14 16:58:06 EST 1994 Article: 3288 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!sgi!odin!charlie.neu.sgi.com!jon From: jon@charlie.neu.sgi.com (Jon Parry) Subject: Re: Looking for address for Record-Marples Inc. Message-ID: Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: charlie.neu.sgi.com Reply-To: jon@charlie.neu.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, European Marketing, Cortaillod, Switzerland References: <2h1c37$5qm@bud.peinet.pe.ca> Distribution: na Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 16:29:38 GMT Lines: 25 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:30522 rec.crafts.metalworking:3288 Hi, I don't have the info for North America, but following is the head office in the Uk who should be able to help you. Record Tools limited. Parkway Works, Sheffield S9 3BL England Tel (+44) 742 449 066 Fax (+44) 742 434 302 Hope it helps, Jon. ************************************************************************* email jon@charlie.neu.sgi.com voice mail # 58539 Silicon Graphics European Marketing Centre CH-2016 Cortaillod Tel (+41) 38 43 35 27 Fax (+41) 38 43 39 05 "Meanwhile back in the meadow..." ************************************************************************* From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!gingr2!ginger Fri Jan 14 16:58:07 EST 1994 Article: 3289 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!gingr2!ginger From: ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (ron ginger) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: CNC software Date: 13 Jan 1994 18:18:09 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 29 Sender: ginger@gingr2 (ron ginger) Distribution: na Message-ID: <2h4391$rgb@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> References: <2gtd3q$t8t@vanbc.wimsey.com> <2gtlo8INNgsp@lynx.unm.edu> Reply-To: ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (ron ginger) NNTP-Posting-Host: gingr2.enet.dec.com In article <2gtlo8INNgsp@lynx.unm.edu>, ebo@algodones.unm.edu () writes: |>> Who uses what packages on their pc to drive stepper motors, for |>> example on mills, lathes etc? I am told that Ability Systems in PA |>> make a good package, what else exists? What is the collective exper |>> ience with the Ability package? |>> | I bought the INDEXER.LPT package from Ability..Its US$250. Very nice folks on the phone, helpfull, willing to talk. Ive only played around with the package so far. I bought a step motor kit from a surplus place for $12 with an SAA1042 driver chip. I hooked it up and from the software spun a motor around. I tried to attach the motro to a Unimat 3 butit was to low power and would stall even moving the carriage without a tool. About that time I got sidetracked into building a machine to cut foam cores for model airplane wings. The mechanics are complete, my friend is now doing teh software, but since hes a software engineer he couldnt bring himself to buy a package, so now he got several weeks into writing software. I found teh control language of INDEXER.LPT very nice, and the whole conceept of it being a PC driver, using a cheap parrallel port seems to me to be excellent. ron ginger From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news Fri Jan 14 16:58:09 EST 1994 Article: 3290 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.models.scale,rec.models.rc,rec.models.railroad Subject: Sherline Lathe CNC parts for sale or swap Date: 13 Jan 1994 18:55:04 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 23 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2h45e8$bdf@oak.oakland.edu> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3290 rec.models.scale:4109 rec.models.rc:17498 rec.models.railroad:7389 I have a set of parts removed from a Sherline lathe that was converted to CNC. I removed the parts, as I don't really need the capability, and would like to sell them or swap them for something I can use. The assemblies consist of stepper motors, custom or custom modified leadscrews, and a number of stock and modified Sherline parts, including a cross slide table, thrust bearings, brass nut, motor mounting plates and other bits. The assemblies are basically 'drop in' kits; the cross slide assembly is installed by unscrewing the stock cross slide, screwing in the new assembly, and moving over the handwheel. The leadscrew asssembly is installed by simply unscrewing the leadscrew thrust washer, removing the existing leadscrew and related parts, and replacing them with the CNC assembly- which includes a handwheel. I don't have any details on the motors, but Cardinal Engineering, from whom I bought the lathe, tells me their hardware and software could easily drive them, as could any good stepper driver. I'm asking only $175 for everything- cheap, if you were to go out and do this from scratch. Offers? Swaps? Polaroid photos are available to those seriously interested. --mike edelman mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!uunet!digex.net!great-miami.iac.net!great-miami.iac.net!not-for-mail Fri Jan 14 16:58:10 EST 1994 Article: 3291 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!uunet!digex.net!great-miami.iac.net!great-miami.iac.net!not-for-mail From: nhaas@iac.net (Nick Haas) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Coin Stamping/Photographic Etching.. Date: 13 Jan 1994 14:49:39 -0500 Organization: Internet Access Cincinnati Lines: 15 Message-ID: <2h48kj$1n0@great-miami.iac.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: great-miami.iac.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I am looking for some information on making dies (sp?) to stamp coins with.. I am not sure even if you would call them dies though.. I dont know ANYTHING about this really (thus looking for info).. The dies are small metal cylinders of tempered steel I believe.. I am looking for the process involved in actually creating the image that gets stamped.. There must be some newer ways to do this.. In the past, photographic line-art negatives were used along with hydrochloric acid I believe to eat-into the metal to make the image.. I am looking for a newer way to do this (lasers?) or anything really, even information about the old way.. I need to dig into the metal about 4/1000's, safely.. (no carcinogens!) If anyone could tell me where to look for this sort of equipment or anything remotely associated with coin making/stamping, please reply here or e-mail me.. Thanks... Nick From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!purdue!news.cs.indiana.edu!babbage.ece.uc.edu!uceng.uc.edu!ucunix.san.uc.edu!ucunix.san.uc.edu!not-for-mail Fri Jan 14 16:58:12 EST 1994 Article: 3292 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!purdue!news.cs.indiana.edu!babbage.ece.uc.edu!uceng.uc.edu!ucunix.san.uc.edu!ucunix.san.uc.edu!not-for-mail From: chadwimc@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Martin C Chadwick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: scrap Date: 13 Jan 1994 14:15:12 -0500 Organization: University of Cincinnati Lines: 18 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2h46k0$idq@ucunix.san.uc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucunix.san.uc.edu Joe, Sounds like you need to spend a Saturday "grubbing". Not many junkyards allow this anymore.The last time I was at "Garden Street Iron & Metal",the guy let us "look". While I've never made any knives,I hear files make good blanks.Also old leaf springs from cars and trucks (made a servicable froe from one of these ) GSI&M is on Spring Grove Ave. in Camp Washington,near Kahn's.There's a little street next to a bar you have to drive back in there. Marty the maintenance man. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Fri Jan 14 16:58:13 EST 1994 Article: 3293 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Storing usable scrap; ideas needed Date: 13 Jan 1994 20:27:34 GMT Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 29 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2h4arm$95h@tymix.Tymnet.COM> References: Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com In article KsB@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU, gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: > > > Who's got the best scrap storage system? I'm cleaning out my shop... IT ALL DEPENDS...but: Check out your local hardware store for large PVC pipe (if you're lucky, you can find some 4" square pipe intended for rain gutter downspouts). ALso check out a plastic supplier for PVC sheet. Decide how many "catagories" you want (e.g., copper, brass, iron, steel, etc.). cut the pipe into that many 3" sections, and that many more 6" sections, and 9" and 12" and... Using ordinary PVC glue (also available from hardware store), glue one "stack" of sizes together and to the PVC sheet (the bottom -- you'll now have a thing that vaguely resembles a set of organ pipes). Repeat for successive catagories. After the glue is dry, add catagory labels and place the structure in it's final resting place. Fill the resulting bins with your sorted scrap. Good luck. JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!delphinium.cig.mot.com!blazer9!sticha Fri Jan 14 16:58:14 EST 1994 Article: 3294 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!delphinium.cig.mot.com!blazer9!sticha From: sticha@blazer9.Berkeley.EDU (David A. Sticha) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Handgun fabrication Date: 13 Jan 1994 17:12:03 GMT Organization: Motorola Cellulsr Infrastructure Group Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2h3vd3$b9g@delphinium.cig.mot.com> References: Reply-To: sticha@blazer9.Berkeley.EDU (David A. Sticha) NNTP-Posting-Host: blazer9.rtsg.mot.com >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Monson writes: Tom> Does anyone know of plans for fabricating handguns, say a copy of an old Tom> Colt, S&W, etc., complete with dimensions, materials, heat treatment, Tom> metal finishes, etc? Seems like a great winter project. I am aware of Tom> places which sell kits, but I'm curious about scratch fabrication. >hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) replies: >Please be aware that you will need a FFL Manufacturing license if you >plan to proceed with this, or do you like striped pajamas as your >daily attire? Manufacturing your own firearm is perfectly legal and requires no license from the Feds as long as you don't make a gun which falls under NFA control, like a machine gun, pen gun, silencer, etc. This question was just answered in the January 1994 NRA American Rifleman magazine. Note that the gun may not be made for commercial sale. Also, even though there are no federal laws against it, your state laws may not agree. For a copy of the complete federal law covering this (and all other federal gun laws) call your local Government Printing Office and ask for a copy of the "Red Book" of federal firearm laws. Cost is about $5.00. They will take VISA over the phone. Their number can be found in the phone book under US Government. BTW, Brownell's (515-623-5401) is the country's largest gunsmithing supply house. They have numerous books and technical publications which might contain enough detail for your needs. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Sticha (sticha@rtsg.mot.com) Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group - Arlington Heights IL "If we make enough laws, we can all be criminals." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!gatech!bselab.bls.com!bselab.bls.com!not-for-mail Fri Jan 14 16:58:16 EST 1994 Article: 3295 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!gatech!bselab.bls.com!bselab.bls.com!not-for-mail From: ejk@bselab.bls.com (1111) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Copper Plateing Date: 13 Jan 1994 18:07:06 -0500 Organization: BellSouth Enterprises, Inc. Lines: 4 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2h4k6qINN73@bselab.bls.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bselab.bls.com Can anyone give me a recepie fir a solution for plateing Copper using Copper Sulfate or some other easily found chemical ? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers Fri Jan 14 16:58:17 EST 1994 Article: 3296 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers From: handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (Howard Anders) Subject: Re: Handgun fabrication Message-ID: <1994Jan14.005800.440@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia References: <2h207o$jvl@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 00:58:00 GMT Lines: 1 Pls excuse my ignorance, but what is "The Eleventh Commandement?" From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers Fri Jan 14 16:58:18 EST 1994 Article: 3297 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers From: handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (Howard Anders) Subject: Blackening steel? Message-ID: <1994Jan14.013438.1670@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 01:34:38 GMT Lines: 7 I have been building some small "Art Deco" steel wire sculptures, and wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how to get a nice, durable, matt black finish on these. (Other than ordinary paint!) Is there some sort of "anodizing" process one can use on steel? I seem to remeber there was a "thread" on this some time ago, but I can't remember what the details were. Tks. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!linus!linus.mitre.org!mwvm.mitre.org!M16302 Fri Jan 14 16:58:19 EST 1994 Article: 3298 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!linus!linus.mitre.org!mwvm.mitre.org!M16302 From: M16302@mwvm.mitre.org Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Lathing down a titanium bicycle seatpost Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 20:10:02 EST Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102 Lines: 13 Message-ID: <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwvm.mitre.org I need to reduce the outer diameter of a titanium bicycle seatpost from 30.2 mm to 30.0 mm. Is there anything I need to know about working with titanium before forging ahead? Robert B. Shain EMAIL: RSHAIN @MITRE.ORG The MITRE Corporation FAX: (703)883-5592 MAILSTOP W955 "My other computer is a Cray 7525 COLSHIRE DRIVE My other machine is a bike McLean, VA. 22102 My other sport is ping pong (703)883-5592 My other hobby is the computer RETURN From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep Fri Jan 14 16:58:21 EST 1994 Article: 3299 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep From: bleep@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (bui tho xuan) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: hydrogen embrittlement Date: 14 Jan 1994 02:34:08 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 18 Message-ID: <2h50b0$ike@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Dave Pinella sent me an email asking what corrosion charging is. I tried to answer him via email, but it won't go through. So here it is , and sorry for the bandwidth waste: he asked > ...corrosion charging? What does that mean? The "corrosion" charging process I refer to applies to aluminum. The lye (NaOH) solution breaks down the oxide layer, the oxygen in water reacts with aluminum to form oxide, letting hydrogen diffuse into the lattice. In practice, it's nothing more than submerging a piece of aluminum in a bath of lye. You can actuallly dissolve a thin foil of aluminum this way. tho From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Fri Jan 14 16:58:22 EST 1994 Article: 3300 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Coin Stamping/Photographic Etching.. Message-ID: <1994Jan13.184719.184@flying-disk.com> Date: 13 Jan 94 18:47:19 PST References: <2h48kj$1n0@great-miami.iac.net> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 21 In article <2h48kj$1n0@great-miami.iac.net>, nhaas@iac.net (Nick Haas) writes: > I am looking for some information on making dies (sp?) to stamp coins with.. > I am not sure even if you would call them dies though.. I dont know At the New Year's eve party I attended, I spent several hours talking with a guy who does exactly that. Unfortunately, I do not know his name or how to contact him. He said that he uses a 6X size master and a pantograph engraver. It takes *many* passes (and hours) to make a master die. Recently, he has begun using EDM to rough out the blank before doing the finish engraving. I'm sorry that I can't remember more. If I can find out how to contact him, I will let you know. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!casc.math.uh.edu!mcbryde Fri Jan 14 16:58:23 EST 1994 Article: 3301 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!menudo.uh.edu!casc.math.uh.edu!mcbryde From: mcbryde@casc.math.uh.edu (Jack Mcbryde) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Handgun fabrication Date: 14 Jan 1994 05:03:12 GMT Organization: UH Dept of Math Lines: 13 Message-ID: <2h592g$iaj@menudo.uh.edu> References: <2h207o$jvl@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1994Jan14.005800.440@trl.oz.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: casc.math.uh.edu In article <1994Jan14.005800.440@trl.oz.au> handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (Howard Anders) writes: >Pls excuse my ignorance, but what is "The Eleventh Commandement?" Well... I'd guess that it's the one that says: "Thou shalt not get caught." jack -- jack mcbryde@math.uh.edu * All I ask of Thee, Lord * Christ died for our sins. Dare we * Is to be a drinker and fornicator * make his martyrdom meaningless by * An unbeliever and a sodomite * not committing them? - Jules Feiffer * And then to die. - Claude de Chauvigny From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!boulder!cnsnews!psych.colorado.edu!kbuelt Fri Jan 14 16:58:25 EST 1994 Article: 3302 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!boulder!cnsnews!psych.colorado.edu!kbuelt From: kbuelt@psych.colorado.edu (Ken Bueltmann) Subject: plating Message-ID: Keywords: metal plating electroplating Sender: usenet@cnsnews.Colorado.EDU (Net News Administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: psych.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 05:10:19 GMT Lines: 3 Dear all, has anyone had any experience with electroplating silver or nickel? I am also interested in plating non-metals. Thanks, Ken in Boulder CO From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Fri Jan 14 16:58:26 EST 1994 Article: 3303 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: hydrogen ebrittlement Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 10:09:53 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <2gv7tn$6pf@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> <2h14s4$610@crcnis1.unl.edu> <2h15tv$rcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article <2h15tv$rcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, bleep@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (bui tho xuan) wrote: for a rather spectacular demonstration, place a piece of kitchen > foil in an ultrasonic cleaner with water. Turn it on, and come > back 15-30 minutes later. The foil should be broken into pieces > (disappear in some cases). This is one of the common technique > for charging hydrogen into aluminum. The other processes are > plasma charging, or corrosion charging (with NaOH--lye). > > I'm not sure this is hydrogen embrittlement. Where does the hydrogen come from? I think that what happens here is that ultrasonic cavitation (which is how ultrasonic cleaners work) lifts off bits of the passivating oxide layer. This reveals the very reactive aluminium metal underneath. This then disintegrates in contact with water. For a demo. of the importance of this oxide layer, try the following. Put a drop of mercuric chloride solution on a piece of Al. foil and nothing much will happen. Take a needle and gently scratch the foil surface under the liquid drop, and the foil will rapidly corrode on that scratch. You can write your name if you like, and it will etch through the foil. The reason is that the bare aluminium causes galvanic deposition of mercury, which amalgamates with the aluminium. Its a striking reminder of how reactive this useful metal is. If it weren't for that thin oxide film, aluminium (and magnesium) would be about as useful to metalworkers as sodium and potassium. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Fri Jan 14 16:58:27 EST 1994 Article: 3304 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1994Jan14.143203.16894@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <1994Jan14.013438.1670@trl.oz.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 09:32:00 -0500 Lines: 31 In article <1994Jan14.013438.1670@trl.oz.au>, writes: > > I have been building some small "Art Deco" steel wire sculptures, and > wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how to get a nice, durable, > matt black finish on these. (Other than ordinary paint!) > Is there some sort of "anodizing" process one can use on steel? > I seem to remeber there was a "thread" on this some time ago, but I can't > remember what the details were. Tks. > What you want is equivalent to firearms 'blueing', which is really more of a midnight-blue to black finish. There are two ways of doing this, cold blueing and (oddly enough) hot blueing. Cold blueing is a chemical treatment that produces a relatively durable blue-black finish, frequently using nasty chemicals (selenium salts). Cold blue chemicals are available in gun shops in small quantities for 'touch-up' work. The hot blueing process consists of rusting the metal, and then converting the rust. True old fashioned blueing is actually black iron oxide (rust which is non-porous, and therefore protects the metal from further oxidization to some extent) as opposed to red rust, which is porous, and will continue to corrode. You can convert red rust to black rust justs by boiling the piece. Getting a good finish usually consists of rusting the metal (more nasty chemicals) and then boiling. This usually has to be done several times if you want a really dark finish. More sophisticated modern blueing processes kind of do everything at one (hot nasty chemicals in a heated tank. The Brownells catalog (address in FAQ) has bokks tanks, and chemicals for both processses. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep Fri Jan 14 16:58:28 EST 1994 Article: 3305 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep From: bleep@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (bui tho xuan) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: hydrogen ebrittlement Date: 14 Jan 1994 17:22:44 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Lines: 38 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2h6kd4$p5l@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <2h14s4$610@crcnis1.unl.edu> <2h15tv$rcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ux1.cso.uiuc.edu pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) writes: >, bleep@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (bui tho xuan) wrote: > > for a rather spectacular demonstration, place a piece of kitchen >> foil in an ultrasonic cleaner with water. Turn it on, and come >> back 15-30 minutes later. The foil should be broken into pieces >> (disappear in some cases). This is one of the common technique >> for charging hydrogen into aluminum. The other processes are >> plasma charging, or corrosion charging (with NaOH--lye). >> >> >I'm not sure this is hydrogen embrittlement. Where does the hydrogen >come from? I think that what happens here is that ultrasonic cavitation >(which is how ultrasonic cleaners work) lifts off bits of the passivating >oxide layer. This reveals the very reactive aluminium metal underneath. >This then disintegrates in contact with water. The hydrogen comes from water. What you said is correct, but did not account for how the aluminum disintergrates when it contacts water. The aluminum reacts with water to form aluminum oxide. The left over hydrogen is absorbed into the metal. The equilibrium concentration of hydrogen in aluminum at room temperature is normally very small, and has to be extrapolated from high temperature data--in the order of 10e-7 atomic ppm. When charged using the techniques I mentioned, the hydrogen concentration can go to 1800 appm (measured by gas chromatograph). Interestingly, the oxide can reform and seals in the hydrogen. We found that there is no drop in H concentration several months after charging. This and the mechanical effects of hydrogen in aluminum is well documented. I don't really work directly with this topic (my specialty is radiation damage), and from the top of my head, I can suggest the work of F. Zeides (an ex-grad student), and one of my bosses (HKBirnbaum). FZ's work is on aluminum only (about 5-6 years ago), and HKB's work is a bit too volumous to search through. A quick computer search will provide more details. tho From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck Fri Jan 14 16:58:30 EST 1994 Article: 3306 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck From: okunewck@pds16 (Phil OKunewick) Subject: Re: plating Message-ID: Keywords: metal plating electroplating Sender: news@cse.psu.edu (Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: pds16.cse.psu.edu Reply-To: okunewck@cse.psu.edu Organization: Random, at best References: Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 17:57:18 GMT Lines: 12 kbuelt@psych.colorado.edu (Ken Bueltmann) writes: >Dear all, has anyone had any experience with electroplating silver or >nickel? I am also interested in plating non-metals. J.C. Whitney auto parts mail-order sells a pretty good book on electroplating. I've had okay experience with Nickel Sulfide (sulfate?), though I can't say I was delighted with the results. Most good electroplating is done with chemicals so toxic that you don't want to be anywhere near them. I prefer to just turn my plating jobs over to a commercial outfit. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!bej Fri Jan 14 16:58:31 EST 1994 Article: 3307 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!helium!bej From: bej@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Bruce E Johnson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Handgun fabrication Date: 14 Jan 1994 18:57:34 GMT Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group Lines: 19 Message-ID: <2h6puu$d4b@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> References: <2h207o$jvl@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <1994Jan14.005800.440@trl.oz.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu In article <1994Jan14.005800.440@trl.oz.au>, Howard Anders wrote: >Pls excuse my ignorance, but what is "The Eleventh Commandement?" Sorry about the obscurity...I stole it from an old Robert Heinlein book (Past through Tomorrow?...anyway the big book about Lazarus Long) : The Eleventh Commandment: Don't Get Caught Bruce Johnson The University of Arizona bej@gas.uug.arizona.edu play johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu work My opininons, Mine, Mine, all Mine! Bwahahahaha! From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck Fri Jan 14 16:58:32 EST 1994 Article: 3308 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck From: okunewck@pds16 (Phil OKunewick) Subject: Re: Copper Plateing Message-ID: Sender: news@cse.psu.edu (Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: pds16.cse.psu.edu Reply-To: okunewck@cse.psu.edu Organization: Random, at best References: <2h4k6qINN73@bselab.bls.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 18:58:05 GMT Lines: 27 ejk@bselab.bls.com (1111) writes: > >Can anyone give me a recepie fir a solution for plateing >Copper using Copper Sulfate or some other easily found >chemical ? Oh, copper plating is easy. You can do it even without a battery. Use sulfuric acid and a scrap of copper plumbing pipe. Sulfuric acid is available from any battery supplier. First, polish your object, Clean it with an oil-based solvent, and then ACID CLEAN THE METAL TO BE PLATED and the copper scrap!! If it ain't clean, it won't plate well. Muriatic (hardware-store hydrochloric) or sulfuric acid works well. Next, add some acid to a plating tank of distilled water (5%-10%), connect a wire from the copper scrap to the object to be plated, and immerse both. You'll want to rotate your object occasionally to make it plate evenly. Most metals will copper plate without outside current. But some metals won't - in that case, hook up a power source and current meter, and adjust the voltage to produce about 1/2 - 1 amp of current. Exact current needed depends on the surface area, and I forget the equation. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck Fri Jan 14 16:58:33 EST 1994 Article: 3309 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!pds16!okunewck From: okunewck@pds16 (Phil OKunewick) Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Message-ID: Sender: news@cse.psu.edu (Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: pds16.cse.psu.edu Reply-To: okunewck@cse.psu.edu Organization: Random, at best References: <1994Jan14.013438.1670@trl.oz.au> <1994Jan14.143203.16894@ll.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 19:08:37 GMT Lines: 40 In article <1994Jan14.143203.16894@ll.mit.edu> Doug White writes: > >In article <1994Jan14.013438.1670@trl.oz.au>, writes: >> >> I have been building some small "Art Deco" steel wire sculptures, and >> wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how to get a nice, durable, >> matt black finish on these. (Other than ordinary paint!) >> Is there some sort of "anodizing" process one can use on steel? >> I seem to remeber there was a "thread" on this some time ago, but I can't >> remember what the details were. Tks. >> >What you want is equivalent to firearms 'blueing', which is really more of >a midnight-blue to black finish. There are two ways of doing this, cold >blueing and (oddly enough) hot blueing... > > [...and some sound advice] The cold blueing finish sucks. Don't bother. Hot blueing salts are available from Dixie Gun Works, Union City, Tenn. I put a very nice black finish on a revolver this way. The object must be completely immersed and boiled in the solution, which seems to boil at around 300-350 degrees with the salts in it, and corrodes all metal in the vicinity. Rust converters for cars (like Duro Extend) produce a nice black finish. This is probably the easiest way to go; try it and see if you like it. An alternative is browning. Browning solutions are available from gun suppliers, for antique gun reproductions. To apply, you heat the metal with a propane torch to a couple hundred degrees, then wipe the solution on. This produces a nice finish too. It's always a good idea to oil your piece after you finish it. Use an oil which won't evaporate - solvent oils (liquid wrench and wd-40) will flow well but will go away after a few days or months and leave the piece to rust. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!mckinley.cit.macalstr.edu!Hult Fri Jan 14 16:58:34 EST 1994 Article: 3310 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!mckinley.cit.macalstr.edu!Hult From: hult@macalstr.edu (Marc F. Hult) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Copper Plateing Date: 14 Jan 1994 20:03:14 GMT Organization: Macalester College, Geology Dept., St. Paul, MN 55105 Lines: 20 Sender: Hult@mac.cc.macalstr.edu. Message-ID: <2h6tq3$c8e@mckinley.cit.macalstr.edu> References: <2h4k6qINN73@bselab.bls.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: stone.geol.macalstr.edu X-Posted-From: InterNews 1.0@mckinley.cit.macalstr.edu. In article okunewck@pds16 (Phil OKunewick) writes: > ejk@bselab.bls.com (1111) writes: > > > >Can anyone give me a recepie fir a solution for plateing > >Copper using Copper Sulfate or some other easily found > >chemical ? > > Most metals will copper plate without outside current. But some > metals won't - in that case, hook up a power source and current meter, > and adjust the voltage to produce about 1/2 - 1 amp of current. Exact > current needed depends on the surface area, and I forget the equation. > Check out the current edition of "Midnight Engineering" for this formula and more very practical information on copper plating. Marc F. Hult, Geology Dept., Macalester College, St. Paul, MN 55105 hult@macalstr.edu 612-696-6441 (voice) 612-696-6122 (fax) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Fri Jan 14 16:58:34 EST 1994 Article: 3311 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Iron Availability? Date: 14 Jan 1994 20:14:09 GMT Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2h6ueh$4to@tymix.Tymnet.COM> References: Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com In article 5r9@cse.psu.edu, okunewck@pds16 (Phil OKunewick) writes: > dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk writes: > The flows and molds resembled piglets suckling on a mother pig, > hence the name "pig iron". This would be the rawest form of iron, > full of all sorts or impurities and in need of further refinement. FOr an example, find an old "sash weight" the iron weight used to make sash windows go up and down). These are usually the cheapest form of iron, with all sorts of inclusions and inhomogeuities -- miserable to work into anything else (say, that describes re-bar, doesn't it). JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Fri Jan 14 16:58:35 EST 1994 Article: 3312 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Packing strips (was: Storing usable scrap; ideas needed) Date: 14 Jan 1994 20:23:59 GMT Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 17 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2h6v0v$4to@tymix.Tymnet.COM> References: <2h4arm$95h@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com While we're looking for ideas, what do people do for packing strips? (if you have something like a 4-tool tool-post on your lathe, it is often necessary to "pack" the tool to get the cutting-edge to center-height... a tool may require a thin shim, or a thick block, depending on the tool size and how the edge is ground.) I've used strips of metal "banding" cut to length, and pieces of scrap, but would like to make a "set" of packing strips for subsequent reuse (rather than searching through the bin for scraps, and then having to cut them up - if I have the right size). If you've used packing strips, what do you find as a useful assortment of thicknesses? what sizes are generally useful (1/2" x 2"?). What metals are best to use (Aluminum? steel?). JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!udel!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail Sat Jan 15 11:59:12 EST 1994 Article: 3313 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!udel!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail From: danw@panix.com (Dan Wold) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Date: 14 Jan 1994 22:54:24 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 37 Message-ID: <2h7pdg$c64@panix2.panix.com> References: <1994Jan14.013438.1670@trl.oz.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com In <1994Jan14.013438.1670@trl.oz.au> handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (Howard Anders) writes: >I have been building some small "Art Deco" steel wire sculptures, and >wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how to get a nice, durable, >matt black finish on these. (Other than ordinary paint!) >Is there some sort of "anodizing" process one can use on steel? >I seem to remeber there was a "thread" on this some time ago, but I can't >remember what the details were. Tks. I recently tried a product that does a good job: "Tool Black" Precision Brand Products, Inc 2250 Downer's Grove, Il 60515 718-969-7200 It's a three part process - a bottle of cleaning solution, the blacckening chemicals and a non-evapporating/non-staining rust-preventative. The shade ranges from "blue" to matte black depending upon the amount of time you leavethe solution on the piece. the instructions indicate that heating will accelerate the process and deepen the color. I got my package from a local distributor: Eastern Tool Company, 1-212-925-1006 They shipped it UPS and I got it the next day. Cost about $45. Good luck. -Dan ( "Dan the Welder" ) ======================================================================= Daniel Wold Sysop: "WORLD CITIZEN" BBS 239 City Island Avenue 718-885-2346 24 hours 14.4kbaud City Island, Bronx, NY 10464 Internet: danw@panix.com Fidonet: Daniel.Wold@1:2603/503 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!lucas Mon Jan 17 15:05:09 EST 1994 Article: 3314 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!lucas From: lucas@watson.ibm.com (Bruce Lucas) Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster) Message-ID: <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 1994 16:53:06 GMT Reply-To: lucas@watson.ibm.com (Bruce Lucas) Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM. Nntp-Posting-Host: yktvmh.watson.ibm.com Organization: IBM Lines: 5 "The Home Machinist's Handbook" recommends coating the part with motor oil and then baking in the oven at about 350 degrees for 10 minutes to obtain a "hard, durable black finish". Bruce Lucas From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!ogicse!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Mon Jan 17 15:05:10 EST 1994 Article: 3315 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!ogicse!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: ss chainmail/welding query Message-ID: <1994Jan17.002329.7508@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Date: 17 Jan 94 00:23:29 GMT Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1994Jan17.002329.7508 References: <758422518snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA Lines: 18 dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) writes: : I can't help wondering, with all this chain mail being made, if there : isn't some way of using an inductively coupled resistance butt-welder ? : If such a device could be produced, it would weld up these countless rings in : no time. : : BTW - About how many rings are there in a piece ? Depends on the size of the ring, and type of weaving. On a full mail shirt - anywhere from a couple of thousand to well over 10,000. Not a weekend project. >From what I have seen, in the SCA, only a few percent of the mail shirts that are started ever gets completed. It is just too effort, and time, consuming for most people. And, most of these are simple butted links - which goes together much faster than welding or riveting. Bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Mon Jan 17 15:05:11 EST 1994 Article: 3316 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Message-ID: <1994Jan16.080240.186@flying-disk.com> Date: 16 Jan 94 08:02:40 PST References: <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 14 In article <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com>, lucas@watson.ibm.com (Bruce Lucas) writes: > "The Home Machinist's Handbook" recommends coating the part with motor > oil and then baking in the oven at about 350 degrees for 10 minutes to > obtain a "hard, durable black finish". I tried it. It didn't work. I also tried higher temperatures and longer times. All I got was an annoyed wife. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!bga.com!bga.com!nobody Mon Jan 17 15:05:12 EST 1994 Article: 3317 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!bga.com!bga.com!nobody From: jher@bga.com (Jher) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Date: 16 Jan 1994 20:14:04 -0600 Organization: Real/Time Communications - Bob Gustwick and Associates Lines: 8 Message-ID: <2hcs9c$g9g@ghostwheel.bga.com> References: <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com> <1994Jan16.080240.186@flying-disk.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ghostwheel.bga.com I had some old chainmail that had rusted and once I fired it in my oven at about 600 deg it turned black. Not all of it mind you, but most of it turned black. I didn't oil it or anything. -- jher@ghostwheel.bga.com 5 Real/Time Public Unix access system host Fnord Login:new wixer.bga.com 23 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Mon Jan 17 15:05:13 EST 1994 Article: 3318 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Packing strips Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 13:06:55 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <2h4arm$95h@tymix.Tymnet.COM> <2h6v0v$4to@tymix.Tymnet.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article <2h6v0v$4to@tymix.Tymnet.COM>, kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) wrote: > While we're looking for ideas, what do people do for packing strips? > > (if you have something like a 4-tool tool-post on your lathe, it is often > necessary to "pack" the tool to get the cutting-edge to center-height... > a tool may require a thin shim, or a thick block, depending on the tool size > and how the edge is ground.) > > The quickest and cheapest method I've found is to use strips of the thin sheet from old aluminium drinks cans. Cut off top and bottom with a pair of scissors and open out to form a useful sheet. Use said scissors to cut a load of strips to suit tool and post, or cut a smaller piece and fold over. Only one problem - don't try to get a thick packing like this or the many layers needed become spongy. It's best for the odd few thou that leave a nasty centre pip, or to add a touch of height to the old packing after regrinding the top of the tool. It's also a good excuse to open another beer. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!koriel!rutgers!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Mon Jan 17 15:05:14 EST 1994 Article: 3319 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!koriel!rutgers!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Packing strips Message-ID: Date: 17 Jan 94 14:21:15 GMT References: Organization: AT&T Lines: 33 >From article , by pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington): > In article <2h6v0v$4to@tymix.Tymnet.COM>, kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, > X6305) wrote: > >> While we're looking for ideas, what do people do for packing strips? >> >> (if you have something like a 4-tool tool-post on your lathe, it is often >> necessary to "pack" the tool to get the cutting-edge to center-height... >> a tool may require a thin shim, or a thick block, depending on the tool size >> and how the edge is ground.) >> >> The quickest and cheapest method I've found is to use strips of the thin > sheet from old aluminium drinks cans. Cut off top and bottom with a pair > of scissors and open out to form a useful sheet. Use said scissors to cut > a load of strips to suit tool and post, or cut a smaller piece and fold > over. A good source of thin aluminum for packing or any of many other shop tasks is roof flashing. A roll about 10" wide cost something in the $10 range, and has many lineal feet on the roll. It is about .010" thick, if I recall. For finer tuning, buy a roll of shim stock (brass or steel), which is reasonably prices in the thinner sections. Perhaps the beer can (I'm sure none of you would drink beer and then operate shop machinery :-) ) would be a thinner shim. For thicker shims I use scraps of thin stock, typically brass (.031", .062"). I use these (and the thinner shims) for workholding, etc. rather than for tool packing, snce I have a quick change tool holder (FIMS) with height adjustment. By the way, the aluminum shim stock (roof flashing) is very handy for preventing marring of work pieces by chuck jaws and the like. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!cyanbug.watstar.uwaterloo.ca!TNYE Mon Jan 17 15:05:15 EST 1994 Article: 3320 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!cyanbug.watstar.uwaterloo.ca!TNYE From: TNYE@MANSCI.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Tim Nye) Subject: Re: Coin Stamping/Photographic Etching.. Message-ID: Lines: 31 Sender: news@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca Organization: University of Waterloo References: <2h48kj$1n0@great-miami.iac.net> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 15:39:29 GMT In article <2h48kj$1n0@great-miami.iac.net> nhaas@iac.net (Nick Haas) writes: >From: nhaas@iac.net (Nick Haas) >Subject: Coin Stamping/Photographic Etching.. >Date: 13 Jan 1994 14:49:39 -0500 >I am looking for some information on making dies (sp?) to stamp coins with.. >I am not sure even if you would call them dies though.. I dont know >ANYTHING about this really (thus looking for info).. The dies are small >metal cylinders of tempered steel I believe.. I am looking for the >process involved in actually creating the image that gets stamped.. There >must be some newer ways to do this.. In the past, photographic line-art >negatives were used along with hydrochloric acid I believe to eat-into the >metal to make the image.. I am looking for a newer way to do this (lasers?) >or anything really, even information about the old way.. I need to dig into >the metal about 4/1000's, safely.. (no carcinogens!) If anyone could tell >me where to look for this sort of equipment or anything remotely associated >with coin making/stamping, please reply here or e-mail me.. Thanks... >Nick At a trade show a couple of years ago, I talked to someone at a company in Michigan which did photo-chemical etching. They did things like etching the markings into steel scales and put through holes in very delicate patterns in shim-stock. Unfortunately I lost their name. Someone else may know who I'm describing, or you might find them in Thomas register under photo-chemical machining or something like that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tim Nye "I don't think so Tim" University of Waterloo From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!gingr2!ginger Mon Jan 17 15:05:16 EST 1994 Article: 3321 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!gingr2!ginger From: ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (ron ginger) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Lathing down a titanium bicycle seatpost Date: 17 Jan 1994 16:09:51 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 19 Sender: ginger@gingr2 (ron ginger) Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hed8f$1v8@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> References: <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> Reply-To: ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (ron ginger) NNTP-Posting-Host: gingr2.enet.dec.com In article <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org>, M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: |>Path: I need to reduce the outer diameter of a titanium bicycle seatpost from |>30.2 mm to 30.0 mm. Is there anything I need to know about working with |>titanium before forging ahead? |> First a bit of terminology- you dont 'lathe down' a part, you 'turn down' the part. Even thought the machine used is a lathe you dont lathe things. Titanium is TOUGH stuff. I tried to saw some of it once and it removed more saw teeth than titanium. I was able to cut the part with a carbide turning tool, but not eaisly and not neatly. Turning off just .2mm will be very hard to do and get any reasonable surface finish. best of luck! ron From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Mon Jan 17 15:05:17 EST 1994 Article: 3322 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Record Tools address in Canada Message-ID: <1994Jan17.102153.21208@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 20 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] Date: 17 Jan 94 10:21:53 CST *sigh* I'm posting this a week late but I wanted to do it on principle ('coz I said I would.) According to the box containing my shiny new Record vise, Record are currently at Record Tools 1915 Clements Rd #1 Pickering Ontario L1W 3V1 No 'phone number provided but directory enquiries would probably help... Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Mon Jan 17 19:55:20 EST 1994 Article: 3323 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 21:52:04 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com> <1994Jan16.080240.186@flying-disk.com> Lines: 65 frisbie@flying-disk.com writes: >In article <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com>, >lucas@watson.ibm.com (Bruce Lucas) writes: >> "The Home Machinist's Handbook" recommends coating the part with motor >> oil and then baking in the oven at about 350 degrees for 10 minutes to >> obtain a "hard, durable black finish". >I tried it. It didn't work. I also tried higher temperatures >and longer times. All I got was an annoyed wife. Motor oil absolutely will not work. It contains additives specifically to PREVENT it from oxidizing in that temperature range. The most durable coatings are either black oxide, blueing or Parkerizing. One of the easier ways of applying black oxide or blueing (thinner oxide) is the so-called "nitrate blueing" process. This involves simply immersing the chemically cleaned steel object in molten potassium nitrate (saltpeter). As the temperature is brought up, the surface turns a straw color which proceeds to blue and then black. If you stop at the blue stage, the color will be a gorgeous deep royal blue not achievable any other way. Very expensive custom guns are often blued this way. Brownell's (a wholesale supplier of gunsmithing tools and supplies) sells kits for hot blueing, nitrate blueing and Parkerizing. They are reasonably priced and work well. No, I don't have their number handy. They advertise in most gun magazines. To do nitrate blueing, you'll need a sturdy steel pan or tank and a Burner capable of heating the mass to the required 600-800 deg F. Brownell's sells a wide variety of sturdy welded steel trays and tanks. I welded short legs to mine and applied a layer of castable refractory to the sides in order to minimize heat loss and speed the initial melt. I use an old burner from a gas furance. A digital pyrometer (Omega Engineering has 'em for < $100) measures the temperature. Chemically clean steel is a must. I first dip a part in hot concentrated sodium hydroxide (lye) to saponify and remove any oil residue. After a water wash, a short dip in hot (not boiling) hydrochloric acid removes any inorganic surface contamination and rust. A second rinse with hot distilled water followed by drying with a hot air blower finishes the prep. This must be done fairly rapidly to prevent re-oxidization. If you can't IMMEDIATELY wash, dry and blue a part, store the cleaned part in a zip-lock bag purged with argon or nitrogen. After blueing, let the excess saltpeter drip off, allow the part to cool and then wash with warm water to remove the residue. Immediately apply a fine oil film. One small caution: Hot saltpeter will vigorously react with organic materials and will start fires. After all, it is an oxidizer. Molten saltpeter dripped on grass or paper will ignite it and the resulting fire burns vigorously. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com "Would you fire on US Citizens while in the process of confiscating their guns?" A question on a survey given to members of the U.S. counterterrorist unit Navy SEAL Team Six by their commanders last September. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!destroyer!gumby!andrews-cc!andrews-cc!not-for-mail Mon Jan 17 23:49:03 EST 1994 Article: 3324 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!destroyer!gumby!andrews-cc!andrews-cc!not-for-mail From: clarence@orion.cc.andrews.edu (Clarence L. Thomas IV) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Global Alert For All: Jesus is Coming Soon Date: 17 Jan 1994 20:20:12 -0500 Organization: Andrews University, Berrien Springs, MI, 49104 Lines: 114 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hfdgc$mj3@orion.cc.andrews.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: orion.cc.andrews.edu The earthquake in Los Angeles, California, the flood in Europe, the seemingly unstoppable war in the former Yugoslavia, the devastating fires in Australia, the flood in the Midwest of the United States of America, the devastating fires near Los Angeles, California, the rapid and appalling increase in violence in cities, towns, villages all over the world, the famines, the diseases, the rapid decline of the family unit, and the destructive earthquake in India (in 1993) are signs that this world's history is coming to a climax. The human race has trampled on God's Constitution, as given in Exodus 20:1-17 (King James Version Bible), and Jesus is coming to set things right. These rapidly accelerating signs are an indication that Jesus is coming soon (Matthew 24). God's Holy Spirit is gradually withdrawing its protection from the earth and the devastating events you see are demonstrations of Satan's power. All those who are not guarded by God are in danger of forever losing eternal life. If you want to know what's about to happen, please study the books of Daniel and Revelation which are located in God's Word, the Bible. They are not sealed or closed books. They can and must be understood by all. Every word in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation is true. The Bible and the Bible only must be your guide. When God's Law (the Constitution for the Universe) is consistently ignored, disregarded, changed, and questioned, He permits certain events to occur to wake us up. I would urge all, wherever you are and regardless of the circumstances, to directly call on Jesus and ask Him to intervene in your life. Jesus who created this planet and every living creature in it and on it, died on the cross, was raised from the dead by God the Father, and is now in Heaven interceding for you. Jesus is the only One who can rescue us from the slavery, misery, and death Satan is causing us. For reference I'm including God's Constitution as given in the King James Version Bible. Please note that when God says the seventh day, he means Sabbath (the 7th day of the week) not Sunday (1st day of the week). Commandment #1: Exodus 20:1-3 (KJV) And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Commandment #2: Exodus 20:4-6 (KJV) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Commandment #3: Exodus 20:7 (KJV) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Commandment #4: Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Commandment #5: Exodus 20:12 (KJV) Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Commandment #6: Exodus 20:13 (KJV) Thou shalt not kill. Commandment #7: Exodus 20:14 (KJV) Thou shalt not commit adultery. Commandment #8: Exodus 20:15 (KJV) Thou shalt not steal. Commandment #9: Exodus 20:16 (KJV) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Commandment #10: Exodus 20:17 (KJV) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. I also recommend that the following books be obtained and closely studied: The Great Controversy By Ellen G. White Review and Herald Publishing Association Hagerstown, MD 21740 The Desire of the Ages By Ellen G. White Review and Herald Publishing Association Hagerstown, MD 21740 Patriarchs and Prophets By Ellen G. White Review and Hearld Publishing Association Hagerstown, MD 21740 Daniel and the Revelation By Uriah Smith Review and Herald Publishing Association Hagerstown, MD 21740 ------- Clarence L. Thomas IV Phone: 616-471-6116 E-mail: thomas@redwood.cc.andrews.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!EPLUS17 Mon Jan 17 23:49:04 EST 1994 Article: 3325 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!EPLUS17 From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Lathing down a titanium bicycle seatpost Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 20:00:56 CST Organization: C.C.S.O. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <16F4111985.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> <2hed8f$1v8@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vmd.cso.uiuc.edu In article <2hed8f$1v8@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (ron ginger) writes: > >In article <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org>, M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: >|>Path: I need to reduce the outer diameter of a titanium bicycle seatpost from >|>30.2 mm to 30.0 mm. ... > >Titanium is TOUGH stuff. ... I have reduced several aluminum alloy seatposts by .2 mm using a becnh mounted belt sander; it doesn't take very long. But titanium will not sand as easily. Also, I would guess that if titanium is being used in a seatpost, the seatpost has been designed with very nearly minimum wall thickness; taking off .2 mm may weaken it unacceptably. ..Richard E+17 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!news.bu.edu!chrism Tue Jan 18 11:18:18 EST 1994 Article: 3326 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!news.bu.edu!chrism From: chrism@bu.edu (Christopher McDowell) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Global Alert For All: Jesus is Coming Soon Date: 18 Jan 1994 14:27:10 GMT Organization: Boston University Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hgrju$pu4@news.bu.edu> References: <2hfdgc$mj3@orion.cc.andrews.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: acs3.bu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Clarence L. Thomas IV (clarence@orion.cc.andrews.edu) wrote: : The earthquake in Los Angeles, California, the flood in Europe, the seemingly : unstoppable war in the former Yugoslavia, the devastating fires in Australia, : the flood in the Midwest of the United States of America, the devastating fires : near Los Angeles, California, the rapid and appalling increase in violence in : cities, towns, villages all over the world, the famines, the diseases, the rapid : decline of the family unit, and the destructive earthquake in India (in 1993) [tales of death and destruction deleted] And oh, no, look! the devil is making our lives miserable by posting irritating messages on random newsgroups... we are all doomed! : ------- : Clarence L. Thomas IV : Phone: 616-471-6116 : E-mail: thomas@redwood.cc.andrews.edu if you want to pray for us, go ahead. Just keep it to yourself. CSM Disclaimer- it wasn't plate tectonics, it was SATAN! From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!emx.cc.utexas.edu!not-for-mail Tue Jan 18 22:19:06 EST 1994 Article: 3327 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!emx.cc.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: tbutterf@emx.cc.utexas.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Date: 18 Jan 1994 14:22:29 -0600 Organization: The University of Texas - Austin Lines: 12 Message-ID: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: emx.cc.utexas.edu Many bullets are cast out of old tire weights -- their Tin and Antimony content seem pretty well suited for standard handgun/rifle bullets. I am trying to cast Blackpowder conicals and need to get as pure a lead as possible. Is there a managable way to melt out, burn off, skim away, seperate the Tin and Antimony from tire weights to get a reasonably pure lead???? I cast my bullets in a production pot that I have reasonable control temperaturewise. Sometimes I cast them on the ol' stovetop if the wife is away :-) Thanks for the help!!! From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Tue Jan 18 22:19:08 EST 1994 Article: 3328 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Crankshaft keyway repair- Epoxy? Message-ID: <1994Jan18.210709.2875@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Originator: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 21:07:09 GMT Lines: 27 I'm working on an engine that has a damaged keeyway on the crankshaft snout. Some ying-yang who supposedly "rebuilt" this engine hammered the harmonic balancer on, paying no attention to the alignment of the key, and forged it out of the way. This caused severe damage to the balancer, and some moderate damage to the crank keyway. I will replace the balancer and key, but I really don't want to rip the engine out of the truck, and then replace the crank. I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for repairing the crank snout keyway. The half-moon slot it about "half gone" on one side, and nearly perfect on the other side. I was hoping to try some epoxy, just as added insurance. Does anyone know of a good Epoxy for this use? J-B Weld? The engine is a 454 Chevrolet engine, which is an externally balanced engine (a big counterweight on the balancer), so the alignment is crucial. The truck was brought to me because of the vibration. Any advice is appriciated- Please cc me by email if possible. Thanks, -Eric -- -- Governments that don't trust honest people with weapons, deserve no trust. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!osshe.edu!news.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab09.wwc.edu!johnric Tue Jan 18 22:19:10 EST 1994 Article: 3329 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!osshe.edu!news.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab09.wwc.edu!johnric From: johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: mokume Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 21:53:17 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 17 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: krh_krhlab09.wwc.edu Hello again. A few months ago I posted some questions about mokume (the brass/ copper variety) and got many great answers and am much closer to creating this stuff. In the last few attempts, I have been able to get what seems to be fusion without the brass burning or oxidizing. But I am still able to peel the layers apart without too much difficulty. A book that I have seems to imply that this is the norm but every once in a while I get a layer that is much stronger and cannot be peeled apart. Now for my new question. In all the vast internet experience what is the strength between layers I should be expecting? Also should I be dropping the dull red hot billet into water? Can this cause delamination? My reference says that this anneals the whole thing but I can live with hard brass and copper if I get intact laminations. Thanks in advance Rick From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Tue Jan 18 22:19:11 EST 1994 Article: 3330 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Message-ID: <1994Jan19.001326.4749@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 00:13:26 GMT Lines: 12 tbutterf@emx.cc.utexas.edu writes: : Many bullets are cast out of old tire weights -- their Tin and Antimony : content seem pretty well suited for standard handgun/rifle bullets. I am : trying to cast Blackpowder conicals and need to get as pure a lead as : possible. Is there a managable way to melt out, burn off, skim away, : seperate the Tin and Antimony from tire weights to get a reasonably pure : lead???? I prefer the antimony in the lead - even for conical rifle bullets. The extra hardness does not seem to hurt accuracy any. Bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user Tue Jan 18 22:19:12 EST 1994 Article: 3331 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user From: wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Sender: news@bnr.ca (usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: 47.220.4.70 Organization: Bell Northern Research References: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 23:36:11 GMT Lines: 20 In article <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu>, tbutterf@emx.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > > Many bullets are cast out of old tire weights -- their Tin and Antimony > content seem pretty well suited for standard handgun/rifle bullets. I am > trying to cast Blackpowder conicals and need to get as pure a lead as > possible. Is there a managable way to melt out, burn off, skim away, > seperate the Tin and Antimony from tire weights to get a reasonably pure > lead???? > > I cast my bullets in a production pot that I have reasonable control temperaturewise. Sometimes I cast them on the ol' stovetop if the wife is away :-) > > Thanks for the help!!! Don't know about tire weights, but how pure are fishing lure weights? Maybe you could use them instead. Just a thought. Bill Webster (WWEBSTER@BNR.CA) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!bnrgate!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user Tue Jan 18 22:19:13 EST 1994 Article: 3332 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!bnrgate!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user From: wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) Subject: Re: Lathing down a titanium bicycle seatpost Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Sender: news@bnr.ca (usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: 47.220.4.70 Organization: Bell Northern Research References: <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> <2hed8f$1v8@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <16F4111985.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 23:42:54 GMT Lines: 21 In article <16F4111985.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>, EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) wrote: > > In article <2hed8f$1v8@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> > ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (ron ginger) writes: > > > > >In article <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org>, M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: > >|>Path: I need to reduce the outer diameter of a titanium bicycle seatpost from > >|>30.2 mm to 30.0 mm. ... > > > >Titanium is TOUGH stuff. ... > Is there a possibility that you could enlarge the hole in the bike frame? Most bikes I've seen have a split ring clamp arrangement. Surely the clamp will open another .2mm. Or is it made of titanium as well? Just my $.02 worth. Bill Webster (WWEBSTER@BNR.CA) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!demoax.enet.dec.com!ginger Tue Jan 18 22:19:15 EST 1994 Article: 3333 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!demoax.enet.dec.com!ginger From: ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (Ron Ginger) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Crankshaft keyway repair- Epoxy? Date: 18 JAN 94 21:01:40 Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 15 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hi4cj$6il@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> References: <1994Jan18.210709.2875@cascade.Stanford.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: demoax.enet.dec.com >on the other side. I was hoping to try some epoxy, just as added >insurance. Does anyone know of a good Epoxy for this use? J-B Weld? > I have used epoxy for a couple metal repairs. The cutter head of my wood planner rides on a ballbearing which is mounted in an epoxy repair. And I once repaired a gear shaft in a VW transmission with it. There are industrial epoxys made for such use, whihc can be machined and even used in bearing applications. they tend to have 'industrial' prices. Id try Devcon Plastic Steel. Its steel filled and in this application will only be in compression load, so should be fine. ron ginger From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news Wed Jan 19 22:49:59 EST 1994 Article: 3334 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: Hiraoka's Shay book: A review Message-ID: Sender: news@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 05:06:18 GMT Lines: 77 In an earlier post, someone was asking about Hiroaka's locomotive building books. And as I predicted then, there was a copy of Hiraoka's book Building the Shay under my Christmas tree. Here is the review I promised. My comments below should be tempered with the fact that I consider myself a beginner, and haven't built any of his engines. Therefore I can only make assumptions about his accuracy and technique based on what I have seen and tried elsewhere. Perhaps someone who has built an engine following his directions can add some comments. The hardbound 194-page book is divided into 23 chapters and an extensive appendix that includes detailed instructions on silver soldering, making ball check valves, hex bolts and wrenches, and a wobbler center indicator. Some chapters are only a few pages while others are about 14 or 15, and each chapter deals with one aspect of building the Shay. Trucks, Square Shafts, Engine, Main Frame, Hand Pump and Headlight are some chapters. If you are familiar with Hiraoka's work in Live Steam magazine, this follows his style. There is a minimum of narrative and a maximum of detailed plans for each part as well as step-by-step drawings showing how each part is made. The Shay is built up from bar stock; no castings are used. Hiroaka makes all the parts for the loco, including needle valves, whistle valve and water glass. He creates complicated-looking parts by building them up from smaller pieces and silver soldering sub-assemblies together. For example, the drive wheels are made by attaching separate spokes and a rim to a backing plate with tiny screws. The assembly is then silver soldered together and the backing fixture is machined off. Other parts are made in a similar fashion. The crankshaft has three throws and six eccentrics and is machined on the lathe. He shows the builder how to offset the crank in the lathe by the use of end caps into which center holes are drilled at the necessary offset. This is one spot where his thoroughness falls short, as there is no suggestion as to how these caps can be made short of a rotary table. While the expert probably knows a dozen solutions, a suggestion to the beginner would be appropriate. The Appendix includes a tour of Hiraoka's workshop, which consists of a 7-inch Emco lathe with milling attachment and the usual basic assortment of hand tools. It seems that many of the craftsmen we admire have simple shops and a minimum of tools. This has always made an avowed toolaholic like me uncomfortable, as I operate under the rule that he with the most tools wins. We all know that better cameras take better pictures, right? Dimensions are all metric. Hiraoka makes a case for the metric system in the Appendix and includes extensive conversion tables. As an American builder, I'd rather skip the twelve pages of tables and have more text or a lower price, as the conversion information is already available in standard references. Further, those who are living under metrics don't need the conversions. A builder in the U.S. would probably prefer to convert all dimensions to English units. The difficulty in working with metrics is not in the system itself, which is much simpler than the English system, but in the fact that all our American lead screws and readily available materials are in English units. Getting raw materials is enough of a challenge without trying to find them in metric sizes. I am amused at times by writers of letters of complaint to the editors of various model magazines. These persons say some particular series of articles is of no value to them. But I have found that even though I may never build the item presented (in this case a Shay locomotive) there are new ways of doing things that can be adapted to other projects. Such is the case here. In my opinon, the most valuable aspect of Hiraoka's work is the concept of making complex parts from sub-assemblies. Overall, if you are willing to take the time to study his drawings and instructions, there is a wealth of information here for anyone building working mechanical models. ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Wed Jan 19 22:49:59 EST 1994 Article: 3335 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Lathing down a titanium bicycle seatpos Date: 19 Jan 1994 13:28:01 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hjch1$ml7@oak.oakland.edu> References: Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article 180194184740@47.220.4.70, wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) writes: (re lathing down a bike seatpost) > >Is there a possibility that you could enlarge the hole in the bike frame? >Most bikes I've seen have a split ring clamp arrangement. Surely the clamp >will open another .2mm. Or is it made of titanium as well? > Seatposts are made to be a close fit in the bike tubing. Better frames clamp the seatpost via a pair of threaded ligs brazed to the tubing, which is slotted for a short distance. The tubing is very thin- you can't enlarge the O.D. --mike From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!jabba.ess.harris.com!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws Wed Jan 19 22:50:00 EST 1994 Article: 3336 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!jabba.ess.harris.com!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws From: jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? References: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 15:46:28 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: billy.mlb.semi.harris.com Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL Sender: news@mlb.semi.harris.com Message-ID: <1994Jan19.154628.26123@mlb.semi.harris.com> Lines: 11 The only reliable source for pure lead I've found locally is one of those stained glass craft places. I managed to pick up quite a bit of the lead strip for cheap; it was somebody's special order that never got picked up. My purpose is to melt it in with 60/40 solder (-very- available as surplus at the recycling places) to end up with 30/70 bodywork-grade solder (not available except at high prices). -- ########################################################################## #Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons # #living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-# #sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!# From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!uknet!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pagesat.net!news.cerf.net!nic.cerf.net!jonesm Wed Jan 19 22:50:01 EST 1994 Article: 3337 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!uknet!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pagesat.net!news.cerf.net!nic.cerf.net!jonesm From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Brass Kit for HSM Skeleton Clock Project Date: 19 Jan 1994 16:29:51 GMT Organization: CERFnet Dial n' CERF Customer Lines: 8 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2hjn60$hf6@news.cerf.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.cerf.net In HSM Nov/Dec 1993 starts a project How to Make a Skeleton Wall Clock. McMurray Metals 1-800-6585655 is listed as a source for brass. McMurray sell a a kit of the brass materials for $130. Their price for brass for <25 lbs is $4.10/lb otherwise. Does $130 sound like a good price? Matthew Jones jones@io.dsd.litton.com (preferred) jonesm@cerf.net From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!uknet!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf Wed Jan 19 22:50:02 EST 1994 Article: 3338 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!uknet!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf From: jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Organization: Control Data Systems Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 16:30:04 GMT Message-ID: References: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> Sender: usenet@cdsmail.cdc.com (News Poster) Lines: 30 In article , wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) writes: |> In article <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu>, tbutterf@emx.cc.utexas.edu |> wrote: |> > |> > Many bullets are cast out of old tire weights -- their Tin and Antimony |> > content seem pretty well suited for standard handgun/rifle bullets. I am |> > trying to cast Blackpowder conicals and need to get as pure a lead as |> > possible. Is there a managable way to melt out, burn off, skim away, |> > seperate the Tin and Antimony from tire weights to get a reasonably pure |> > lead???? |> > |> > I cast my bullets in a production pot that I have reasonable control temperaturewise. Sometimes I cast them on the ol' stovetop if the wife is away :-) |> > |> > Thanks for the help!!! |> |> Don't know about tire weights, but how pure are fishing lure weights? |> Maybe you could use them instead. |> |> Just a thought. |> |> Bill Webster (WWEBSTER@BNR.CA) Yipes! Talk about robbing peter to pay paul! Fishing weights aren't cheap. I cast them in addition to bullets. You can loose a lot of walking sinkers fishing for walleyes in a rocky lake. As I wrote to the original poster, if he needs the alloy to have the softness of pure lead (around 5 BHN) then he'll have to buy some. I was able to get pure scrap lead for $0.30/lb. For general bullet casting wheel weights are almost ideal. Since I don't shoot BP I don't know if they need to be much softer for some reason. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Wed Jan 19 22:50:03 EST 1994 Article: 3339 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.machines Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Crankshaft keyway repair- cutting a new slot Message-ID: <1994Jan19.191058.17220@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 19:10:58 GMT Lines: 34 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.tech:51743 rec.crafts.metalworking:3339 >>I'm working on an engine that has a damaged keeyway on the crankshaft >>snout. Some ying-yang who supposedly "rebuilt" this engine hammered >>the harmonic balancer on, paying no attention to the alignment of the >>key, and forged it out of the way. This caused severe damage to the >>balancer, and some moderate damage to the crank keyway. > > Build it up with welding rod and grind it back down? I'd feel better >about that than JB Weld if it was my motor. I've been advised by most epoxy gu-ru's that it won't work- at least not for long. But I do not want to weld on the crankshaft either. It's a cast crank. The advice that I think I'll follow is that which came from someone who's been in this prediciment before: He advises either cutting a second keyway along side the existing one (making a key thru the damage, but flush with the surface) which is what he has done, or cutting another keyway in the crank, in line with the existing one (as sort of a secondary keyway) since there is room. He assures me that a dremel tool can do this...... I'll summarize once I get done trying it, but in the meantime, if anyone has some good "machining" advice, I'm all ears! Thanks, -Eric -- -- Governments that don't trust honest people with weapons, deserve no trust. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx10!mchance Wed Jan 19 22:50:03 EST 1994 Article: 3340 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx10!mchance From: mchance@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Michael Chance) Subject: Re: ss chainmail/welding query Message-ID: <1994Jan19.160403.28335@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <2h1q80$h0u@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 16:04:03 GMT Lines: 34 jory bell writes: >Specifically, I am seeking to close very small stainless rings >(approximately 18-22 gauge) and cannot figure out how this is done. >Ideally, I am looking to weld (not solder) the rings. Eventually, I will >be working in larger gauges as well. Is welding this type of thing >at all feasible/possible. There's a guy in Arizona that makes chainmail shirts, coifs, etc. for sale (sorry, I don't have his address immedieately available), and most of his stuff is welded links. He has several types of wire that he can use, including stainless steel. I believe that he uses some type of jeweler's arc welder to close the links. I've seen the rig once; a side profile looks sort of like this: ---------------- | |-----| | | | | | --- <= link to be closed | | | | |-----| ---------------- The idea is that you stick the link between the two contacts, hit a button on the top which closes the contacts on the link, and poof! one welded link. Anyone else have any more info? -- Michael A. Chance St. Louis, Missouri, USA "At play in the fields Work: mc307a@sw1sta.sbc.com of St. Vidicon" Play: ab899@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!seven-up.East.Sun.COM!dr-pepper.East.Sun.COM!marley!ama Wed Jan 19 22:50:04 EST 1994 Article: 3341 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!seven-up.East.Sun.COM!dr-pepper.East.Sun.COM!marley!ama From: ama@marley.East.Sun.COM (Al Amaral - SunSelect) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Lathing down a titanium bicycle seatpost Date: 19 Jan 1994 20:59:22 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc. - BDC Lines: 18 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hk6va$7h@dr-pepper.East.Sun.COM> References: <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> <2hed8f$1v8@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: marley.east.sun.com In article <2hed8f$1v8@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (ron ginger) writes: > >In article <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org>, M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: >|>Path: I need to reduce the outer diameter of a titanium bicycle seatpost from >|>30.2 mm to 30.0 mm. Is there anything I need to know about working with >|>titanium before forging ahead? >|> >Turning off just .2mm will be very hard to do and get any reasonable surface >finish. You might be better off trying to take .2mm off the INSIDE of the piece into which the seatpost fits. It's probably not titanium. If it is you're probably sol... --Al Amaral-- -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Al Amaral Al.Amaral@East.Sun.COM From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!metro!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!crux.rp.CSIRO.AU!mgoris Wed Jan 19 22:50:05 EST 1994 Article: 3342 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!metro!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!crux.rp.CSIRO.AU!mgoris From: mgoris@rp.CSIRO.AU (Mal Goris) Subject: Re: Lathing down a titanium bicycle seatpost Message-ID: <1994Jan18.230403.15911@rp.CSIRO.AU> Sender: usenet@rp.CSIRO.AU (Network news) Nntp-Posting-Host: miraculix Organization: CSIRO Division of Radiophysics/Australia Telescope National Facility References: <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> <2hed8f$1v8@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 23:04:03 GMT Lines: 14 In article <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org>, M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: |>Path: I need to reduce the outer diameter of a titanium bicycle seatpost from |>30.2 mm to 30.0 mm. Is there anything I need to know about working with |>titanium before forging ahead? |> Why don't you use a cylindrical grinder, if the titanium is too hard to machine with normal tools? You'll just need to devise some way of supporting the post between centres. -- Mal Goris mgoris@rp.csiro.au From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user Wed Jan 19 22:50:05 EST 1994 Article: 3343 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user From: wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) Subject: Re: Crankshaft keyway repair- Epoxy? Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Sender: news@bnr.ca (usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: 47.220.4.70 Organization: Bell Northern Research References: <1994Jan18.210709.2875@cascade.Stanford.EDU> <2hi4cj$6il@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 23:41:58 GMT Lines: 39 In article <2hi4cj$6il@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (Ron Ginger) wrote: > > >on the other side. I was hoping to try some epoxy, just as added > >insurance. Does anyone know of a good Epoxy for this use? J-B Weld? > > > > I have used epoxy for a couple metal repairs. The cutter head of my wood > planner rides on a ballbearing which is mounted in an epoxy repair. And I once > repaired a gear shaft in a VW transmission with it. > > There are industrial epoxys made for such use, whihc can be machined and even > used in bearing applications. they tend to have 'industrial' prices. > > Id try Devcon Plastic Steel. Its steel filled and in this application will only > be in compression load, so should be fine. > > ron ginger Another type of epoxy good for this purpose is made by Loc-Tite. It was around $12 for a small tube, but it's not effected by petrolium products. I've used it on a crankshaft where a chunk of steel was thrown at the junction of the crankpin. I've also used it to repair a diesel fuel tank crack and didn't have to empty the fuel! There are several glues made by Loc-Tite and I don't recall the name of this particular one. I only remember it dried a light grey and was hard as nails after 2 hours of curing. But, if you opt for the Devcon, keep your receipt. This glue is not a high volume seller and so it sits on the shelf for quite some time. It hardens up in the applicator. I ended up taking mine back to the store and after trying every package of the stuff at the store, the manager had to return the whole lot back to Devcon. Now, that's not to say the stuff doesn't work; just make sure it's fresh stock. I eventually got some and it works! Hope this helps. Bill Webster (WWEBSTER@BNR.CA) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal Wed Jan 19 22:50:06 EST 1994 Article: 3344 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!ernest!cmptrc!neal From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 23:13:33 GMT Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX Lines: 8 In article <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com> lucas@watson.ibm.com (Bruce Lucas) D writes: >"The Home Machinist's Handbook" recommends coating the part with motor >oil and then baking in the oven at about 350 degrees for 10 minutes to >obtain a "hard, durable black finish". I'll bet pizza cooked in that same oven afterwards sure would taste rotten. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!malgudi.oar.net!utnetw.utoledo.edu!uoft02.utoledo.edu!scimatec5 Thu Jan 20 15:16:38 EST 1994 Article: 3345 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!malgudi.oar.net!utnetw.utoledo.edu!uoft02.utoledo.edu!scimatec5 From: scimatec5@uoft02.utoledo.edu Subject: yuhjikl,.; Message-ID: <1994Jan19.231732.1@uoft02.utoledo.edu> Lines: 9 Sender: news@utnetw.utoledo.edu (News Manager) Organization: University of Toledo Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 04:17:32 GMT Hey all, I wondered if an aluminum pop can has enough tensile strength to take the kind of pressure produced in an automobile engine? How about a steel beer can? I'm working on a project and need to create a cylinder to test an idea I have, and I don't have the equiptment to bore a cylinder into a block. If it were placed in sand, would it then be able to handle the pressure? (assuming of course, that the top won't blow off) Steve Mather From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!sxk29 Thu Jan 20 15:16:39 EST 1994 Article: 3346 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!sxk29 From: sxk29@po.CWRU.Edu (Susan Kretschmer) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) Date: 20 Jan 1994 07:40:53 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 40 Message-ID: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: sxk29@po.CWRU.Edu (Susan Kretschmer) NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu Hi everyone! I'm writing a novel/series of fantasy short stories where one of the main characters is a blacksmith. The plot requires some technical detail; unfortunately I have only the vaguest idea about anything related to metalworking. I figured this would be the place to come for help... The blacksmith lives in a society where it is forbidden by their religion to craft anything from alloys; only pure metals can be used. As a young boy, however, he makes a knife that defies that rule, and it turns out to be a much better knife than any other (keeps an edge better, is sharper, stronger, or maybe (my last choice) the alloy is just easier to work with than a pure metal and he can make it fancier or something). Question: what two metals should he pour together (in dramatic defiance of the priests!) in order to make his knife? It would be useful if one of them was copper, so that the resulting knife is a color that no pure metal would be. Then if anyone sees the knife they know it's been made against the rules. It occured to me to use bronze (copper and tin, right?), but someone else told me that would make a way _worse_ knife, which sounds right now that I think about it. Is there a mixture besides steel that would be superior to pure iron? How far beyond medieval technology is steelmaking anyway? And what would you get if you poured copper and iron together? In fact, I remain pathetically ignorant of how you go about making a knife or a sword at all. Do you use a mold? How do you get all the fancy designs on it? All I know is that in movies somebody bangs on it impressively with lots of flying sparks. Can anybody point me toward a reference book for the complete novice? A lot of the subsequent plot hinges on various technological advances, and I'd like to be as accurate as I can. Thanks for your time...I hope you've at least found this amusing! :) Susie -- Susie Kretschmer CWRU School of Medicine "Don't ask me, I'm just improvising" MSTP Class of 1998 --Rush, PRESTO Internet: sxk29@po.cwru.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!portnoy!canrem.com!david.lagzdin Thu Jan 20 15:16:40 EST 1994 Article: 3347 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: re:record marples address From: david.lagzdin@canrem.com (David Lagzdin) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!portnoy!canrem.com!david.lagzdin Distribution: world Message-ID: <60.2615.2999.0N191AF9@canrem.com> References: <2h1c37$5qm@bud.peinet.pe.ca> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 14:17:00 -0400 Organization: CRS Online (Toronto, Ontario) Lines: 2 Record Marples 1915 Clements Rd Pickering Ont 905 428 1077 Dave From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!gingr2!ginger Thu Jan 20 15:16:40 EST 1994 Article: 3348 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!gingr2!ginger From: ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (ron ginger) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: yuhjikl,.; Date: 20 Jan 1994 13:16:14 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 21 Sender: ginger@gingr2 (ron ginger) Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hm06u$9nf@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> References: <1994Jan19.231732.1@uoft02.utoledo.edu> Reply-To: ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (ron ginger) NNTP-Posting-Host: gingr2.enet.dec.com In article <1994Jan19.231732.1@uoft02.utoledo.edu>, scimatec5@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes: > |>Hey all, |> I wondered if an aluminum pop can has enough tensile strength to |>take the kind of pressure produced in an automobile engine? How about |>a steel beer can? I'm working on a project and need to create a |>cylinder to test an idea I have, and I don't have the equiptment to bore |>a cylinder into a block. If it were placed in sand, would it then be able to |>handle the pressure? (assuming of course, that the top won't blow off) |> Steve Mather |> There was an article in either MODELTEC or HOME SHOP MACHINIST a few years ago on a hot air engine built from tin cans. Ive seen a couple versions of it, includuing one at the last North American Model Engineer show and it actually runs. Not sure how this would relate to your idea, but it was a working engine, with piston and cylinder made from tin cans. ron ginger From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bnr.ca!cav Thu Jan 20 15:16:41 EST 1994 Article: 3349 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bmerha64.bnr.ca!bnr.ca!cav From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) Date: 20 Jan 1994 13:48:32 GMT Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Lines: 95 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hm23g$s74@bmerha64.bnr.ca> References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin) NNTP-Posting-Host: bmerh671.bnr.ca In article <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, sxk29@po.CWRU.Edu (Susan Kretschmer) writes: |> |> Hi everyone! |> |> I'm writing a novel/series of fantasy short stories where one of the |> main characters is a blacksmith. The plot requires some technical detail; |> unfortunately I have only the vaguest idea about anything related to |> metalworking. I figured this would be the place to come for help... |> |> The blacksmith lives in a society where it is forbidden by their |> religion to craft anything from alloys; only pure metals can be used. As |> a young boy, however, he makes a knife that defies that rule, and it turns out |> to be a much better knife than any other (keeps an edge better, is sharper, |> stronger, or maybe (my last choice) the alloy is just easier to work with than |> a pure metal and he can make it fancier or something). The first two you generally get with the alloy vs the pure metal (ie. Bronze vs copper or tin, steel vs iron. The ability to take and hold an edge is related to the hardness. I think you tend to lose maliability with most alloys (ie. the pure metal is softer, but then that's why you're after the alloy - can't have your cake and eat it too). |> |> Question: what two metals should he pour together (in dramatic defiance |> of the priests!) in order to make his knife? It would be useful if one of them |> was copper, so that the resulting knife is a color that no pure metal would be. |> Then if anyone sees the knife they know it's been made against the rules. |> It occured to me to use bronze (copper and tin, right?), but someone else told |> me that would make a way _worse_ knife, which sounds right now that I think |> about it. Is there a mixture besides steel that would be superior to pure History lesson! Bronze superceded copper ('The Bronze Age') precisely because it made superior tools. Bronze is harder, stronger, and casts well. I think it can be forged to a limited extent. |> iron? How far beyond medieval technology is steelmaking anyway? And what |> would you get if you poured copper and iron together? Steel was certainly made in the middle ages, but not the way it's made today. Hasty generalization: tools (including knives) tended to only have steel where it was needed, the 'body' of the tool would be of wrought iron. Knives would be laminated out alternating layers of iron and steel (odd number usually) so that the middle layer was steel. When the knife was sharpened, the middle layer of hard steel would be exposed along the edge. The wrought iron, being softer and more flexible, balanced the hard brittleness of the steel, making the knife harder to break. The wrought iron was cheaper too, so you'd use the steel sparingly. Copper and Iron? Haven't a clue. |> |> In fact, I remain pathetically ignorant of how you go about making a |> knife or a sword at all. Do you use a mold? How do you get all the fancy Nope. What a blacksmith does is 'forging'. You heat the metal up and hit it with a hammer on an anvil. The only operation that really generates alot of sparks is forge welding (how iron/steel was forged before acetylene torches and arc welders). |> designs on it? All I know is that in movies somebody bangs on it impressively Lots of ways to get 'fancy designs' these days. Which fancy designs do you mean? (different techniques/tools might be used for each) Because of the 'workablilty' of iron, you can hammer/twist/sculpt it into all sorts of shapes. It takes skill and experience of course. Then you can get interesting effects by pattern welding. Then of course there's engraving/inlaying/enamelling etc. It's sort of a BIG topic actually. |> with lots of flying sparks. Can anybody point me toward a reference book for |> the complete novice? A lot of the subsequent plot hinges on various |> technological advances, and I'd like to be as accurate as I can. If you want to understand things from a metallurgical perspective, get an introductory text on Material Sciences. You'll probably get more than enough info on various alloys. From a more practical standpoint, check your local public library under 'Blacksmithing', 'Metalworking', and 'Knifemaking'. Even some jewelry making books have some basic blacksmithing instructions in them. Blacksmithing/Knifemaking books will almost certainly confine themselves to talking about iron and steel (well these days, steel only actually, since virtually noone makes wrought iron anymore :(. I'll try to bring in some titles/authors tomorrow. |> |> Thanks for your time...I hope you've at least found this amusing! :) |> |> Susie |> -- |> Susie Kretschmer |> CWRU School of Medicine "Don't ask me, I'm just improvising" |> MSTP Class of 1998 --Rush, PRESTO |> Internet: sxk29@po.cwru.edu Cheers, Rick C. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!usenet Thu Jan 20 15:16:42 EST 1994 Article: 3350 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!usenet From: towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Date: 20 Jan 1994 14:56:31 GMT Organization: Digital Equpiment Corp. Salem, NH, USA Lines: 45 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hm62v$cj3@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> References: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> Reply-To: towle@gunner.enet.dec.com NNTP-Posting-Host: gunner.enet.dec.com X-Newsreader: dxrn 6.18-6 In article <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu>, tbutterf@emx.cc.utexas.edu writes: >From: tbutterf@emx.cc.utexas.edu >Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking >Subject: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? >Date: 18 Jan 1994 14:22:29 -0600 >Organization: The University of Texas - Austin >Lines: 12 > >Many bullets are cast out of old tire weights -- their Tin and Antimony >content seem pretty well suited for standard handgun/rifle bullets. I am >trying to cast Blackpowder conicals and need to get as pure a lead as >possible. Is there a managable way to melt out, burn off, skim away, >seperate the Tin and Antimony from tire weights to get a reasonably pure >lead???? Yes. Melt the wheelweights as usual but do not flux the mix. Once everything is melted, stir lightly, fish out all the steel clips and other trash, then just leave the pot alone for about a half hour without stirring or otherwise disturbing it and the antimony and tin, being lighter than the lead, will rise to the top where it can be skimmed off and saved for addition to a batch later on when regular harder bullets are cast. Any left over dross will rise to the very top, the tin will be under this and will look like a grayish scum. The antimony will be under the tin and will look like a grayish powder. I do this regularly with no problem. Remember... If you do not flux the mixture you will end up with pure lead at the bottom of the pot. If you can dent (with your thumbnail) the conicals you've cast following this method they are soft enough to use. -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % Opinions expressed are my own, not my employers. % % % % The only way to ensure freedom? Let every man be armed. % %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Thu Jan 20 15:16:43 EST 1994 Article: 3351 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Thread-cutting Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 15:30:10 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <1994Jan11.012742.488@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> <104@landau.win.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article <104@landau.win.net>, jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) wrote: > > In article <1994Jan11.012742.488@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, Joseph Stoltzfus (joes@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov) writes: > >In article jjhenry@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Henry) writes: > >>Does anyone know of a way to use a metric thread dial to cut english > >>threads (on a metric lathe) or how to use a english thread dial to cut > >>english threads (on an english lathe)? Perhaps someone has devised a > >>formula? > >> Rather than use 63 tooth gear, a 21 (=63/3) tooth is often easier to work in. There is a table on my ML7 for most metric threads using an 8tpi screw with this gear. I'll mail it if anyone wants it. If I get too many requests, I'll post it! From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Thu Jan 20 15:16:43 EST 1994 Article: 3352 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: pressure in cans (was yuhjikl) Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 15:35:40 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <1994Jan19.231732.1@uoft02.utoledo.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article <1994Jan19.231732.1@uoft02.utoledo.edu>, scimatec5@uoft02.utoledo.edu wrote: > > Hey all, > I wondered if an aluminum pop can has enough tensile strength to > take the kind of pressure produced in an automobile engine? How about > a steel beer can? I'm working on a project and need to create a > cylinder to test an idea I have, and I don't have the equiptment to bore > a cylinder into a block. If it were placed in sand, would it then be able to > handle the pressure? (assuming of course, that the top won't blow off) > Steve Mather I have an old (wartime) Model Engineer in which there is a brief description of using old cans as pressure vessels for compressed-air driven models (aeroplanes I think!) by E.T. Westbury. Apparently the vessels had extra longitudinal stays, were wrapped with piano wire, and 'bulged alarmingly"! I think 100-150 psi was mentioned. There's little further detail but I will dig it out if anyone mails me. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!wkaiser Thu Jan 20 15:16:44 EST 1994 Article: 3353 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!wkaiser From: wkaiser@mtholyoke.edu (William F. Kaiser) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) Date: 20 Jan 1994 16:11:54 GMT Organization: Mount Holyoke College Lines: 86 Message-ID: <2hmaga$k5r@slab.mtholyoke.edu> References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mhc.mtholyoke.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Susan Kretschmer (sxk29@po.CWRU.Edu) wrote: > Hi everyone! > I'm writing a novel/series of fantasy short stories where one of the > main characters is a blacksmith. The plot requires some technical detail; > unfortunately I have only the vaguest idea about anything related to > metalworking. I figured this would be the place to come for help... An author looking for technical accuracy. Great! I get annoyed by stories full of inaccuracies and ignorance of a subject. First off, a blacksmith works the black metal - iron. There were also coppersmiths, tinsmiths, whitesmiths, etc. Maybe you just want a generic smith. > The blacksmith lives in a society where it is forbidden by their > religion to craft anything from alloys; only pure metals can be used. You might want to consider how your society gets _pure_ metals. Getting extraneous crud out of metals is often not a trivial task. As > a young boy, however, he makes a knife that defies that rule, and it turns out > to be a much better knife than any other (keeps an edge better, is sharper, > stronger, or maybe (my last choice) the alloy is just easier to work with than > a pure metal and he can make it fancier or something). > Question: what two metals should he pour together (in dramatic defiance > of the priests!) in order to make his knife? It would be useful if one of them > was copper, so that the resulting knife is a color that no pure metal would be. > Then if anyone sees the knife they know it's been made against the rules. > It occured to me to use bronze (copper and tin, right?), but someone else told > me that would make a way _worse_ knife, which sounds right now that I think > about it. Is there a mixture besides steel that would be superior to pure > iron? How far beyond medieval technology is steelmaking anyway? And what > would you get if you poured copper and iron together? Iron was not poured until 16??, well after the middle ages. Before that, the ore was smelted with charcoal as the fuel and produced wrought iron. Wrought iron is a mixture of iron and various impurities, not a pure metal, by any means. After 16?? coke, from coal, was the fuel. This produced a much hotter fire and the iron could be melted. This started the cast iron industry and the industrial revolution in England. Cast iron has a much higher carbon content (2-3%) than steel or wrought iron, so it is too brittle for many uses. The Bessemer process, about 1850, was the first method to produce large quantities of steel. Air was blown through molten iron to burn out the carbon and other impurities. Steel was made in small quantities long before 1850, though. >From "Machine Tool Technology," McCarthy & Smith, McKnight, 1968: "Copper in small amounts sometimes is alloyed with steel to improve corrosion resistance. It also tends to improve tensile and yield strengths of steel." They don't say what "small amounts" is. I suspect that in large amounts you may get something that no one particularly wants. Your copper - bronze idea is practical for a story idea. You might also look into Damascus steel for a blade. It begins with a layer of iron and steel welded together, folded and welded again, through many cycles. It looks distinctively different from a homogeneous steel blade, and has many advantages over wrought iron. > In fact, I remain pathetically ignorant of how you go about making a > knife or a sword at all. Do you use a mold? How do you get all the fancy > designs on it? All I know is that in movies somebody bangs on it impressively > with lots of flying sparks. Can anybody point me toward a reference book for > the complete novice? A lot of the subsequent plot hinges on various > technological advances, and I'd like to be as accurate as I can. > Thanks for your time...I hope you've at least found this amusing! :) > Susie > -- > Susie Kretschmer There was a series on PBS a few years ago, "Out of the Firey Furnace," I think, that was about the history of metalworking. Maybe you could find that for starters. It went way back to prehistoric metalworking. Have fun. Let us know when your novel/series is published. Bill Kaiser wkaiser@mhc.mtholyoke.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Thu Jan 20 15:16:45 EST 1994 Article: 3354 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1994Jan20.154336.17384@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 10:43:34 -0500 Lines: 64 In article <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, writes: > > Hi everyone! > > I'm writing a novel/series of fantasy short stories where one of the > main characters is a blacksmith. The plot requires some technical detail; > unfortunately I have only the vaguest idea about anything related to > metalworking. I figured this would be the place to come for help... > > The blacksmith lives in a society where it is forbidden by their > religion to craft anything from alloys; only pure metals can be used. As > a young boy, however, he makes a knife that defies that rule, and it turns out > to be a much better knife than any other (keeps an edge better, is sharper, > stronger, or maybe (my last choice) the alloy is just easier to work with than > a pure metal and he can make it fancier or something). > > Question: what two metals should he pour together (in dramatic defiance > of the priests!) in order to make his knife? It would be useful if one of them > was copper, so that the resulting knife is a color that no pure metal would be. > Then if anyone sees the knife they know it's been made against the rules. > It occured to me to use bronze (copper and tin, right?), but someone else told > me that would make a way _worse_ knife, which sounds right now that I think > about it. Is there a mixture besides steel that would be superior to pure > iron? How far beyond medieval technology is steelmaking anyway? And what > would you get if you poured copper and iron together? > > In fact, I remain pathetically ignorant of how you go about making a > knife or a sword at all. Do you use a mold? How do you get all the fancy > designs on it? All I know is that in movies somebody bangs on it impressively > with lots of flying sparks. Can anybody point me toward a reference book for > the complete novice? A lot of the subsequent plot hinges on various > technological advances, and I'd like to be as accurate as I can. > > Thanks for your time...I hope you've at least found this amusing! :) > > Susie > -- > Susie Kretschmer > CWRU School of Medicine "Don't ask me, I'm just improvising" > MSTP Class of 1998 --Rush, PRESTO > Internet: sxk29@po.cwru.edu If you want to get fancy (and historically accurate), there are instances of people making 'stainless steel' in the middle ages. They didn't know the metalurgy behind it, but depending upon where they got their raw materials, it was possible to get enough of the right impurities to produce alloy steel with properties superior to what they could ordinairily produce. One of the most prized items for producing these alloys was iron from a meteorite. Aside from having lots of mystical implications, it usually has a high nickel content, which when alloyed with regular iron in the right proportions would produce steel with 'magical' properties. I don't know of any concrete references on this, but I have it on good authority (a silver-smithing instructor at the De Cordova Museum in Lincoln, MA, who does metal work of all sorts). Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!news Thu Jan 20 15:16:46 EST 1994 Article: 3355 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!news From: baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: knife making - novice Date: 20 Jan 1994 16:03:38 GMT Organization: Schlumberger Data Services - Dallas Lines: 15 Message-ID: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> Reply-To: BAKER@dfwdsr.sinet.slb.com NNTP-Posting-Host: dfwvx1.dallas.geoquest.slb.com My son has recently decided to try making knives (based on an article he saw in Popular Mechanics). I suggested that he start by working on old knives to get some experience (cleaning the blade, putting a new handle on the knife, etc) first. Could anyone suggest any good books (or supply catalogs) for him to get? One other thing, he has an old knife that he wants to work on, it was a stainless steel blade and has a bit of corrosion and dullness to it. What is the correct way to restore the blade? thanks, james From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!cubic.com!wmata.wd.Cubic.COM!MARTIN Thu Jan 20 15:16:46 EST 1994 Article: 3356 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!cubic.com!wmata.wd.Cubic.COM!MARTIN From: MARTIN@cubic.com (Bill W. Martin) Subject: Rotary phase converters Nntp-Posting-Host: wmata.wd.cubic.com Keywords: 3-phase converter, Sender: news@cubic.com (News) Organization: CARCG Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 21:37:31 GMT Message-ID: Summary: Need info on rotary phase converters Distribution: usa Lines: 12 Hello, If anyone has info on using a large 3-phase motor as a phase converter, ie 1-phase power to 3-phase power, I have a couple of questions. First, how much power is consumed at idle load condition, relative to the size of the motor being run? Second, can a dual-voltage 3-phase motor be configured as a kind of " rotating transformer" to step up 220V to 440V ? I recall seeing some discussion on the general topic of 1->3 phase conversion with a 3-phase motor, but no mention of either of my questions. Thanks in advance for any info you may have! Bill Martin From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab05.wwc.edu!johnric Thu Jan 20 15:16:47 EST 1994 Article: 3357 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab05.wwc.edu!johnric From: johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: knife making - novice Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 18:33:33 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: krh_krhlab05.wwc.edu In article <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM writes: >From: baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM >Subject: knife making - novice >Date: 20 Jan 1994 16:03:38 GMT > > My son has recently decided to try making knives (based on an article > he saw in Popular Mechanics). > I suggested that he start by working on old knives to get some > experience (cleaning the blade, putting a new handle on the knife, etc) > first. Could anyone suggest any good books (or supply catalogs) for > him to get? > One other thing, he has an old knife that he wants to work on, it was > a stainless steel blade and has a bit of corrosion and dullness to it. > What is the correct way to restore the blade? > > thanks, > > james > This is a good idea as it will give him some small bit of experience. In addition I think he should order a catalog from Blades and Stuff (address found in Blade and Knives Illustrated). This catalog in addition to selling many many supplies and knife blades also has a very large how-to section on completing a knife from an unpolished blade. Rick From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!noc.near.net!usenet.ccur.com!john Thu Jan 20 15:16:48 EST 1994 Article: 3358 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!noc.near.net!usenet.ccur.com!john From: john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) Subject: Re: Lathing down a titanium bicycle seatpost Message-ID: Sender: usenet@westford.ccur.com (UNIX News) Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford, MA References: <2hed8f$1v8@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <16F4111985.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 18:37:01 GMT Lines: 20 In article wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) writes: >In article <16F4111985.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>, EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu >(Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) wrote: >> >> In article <2hed8f$1v8@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> >> ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (ron ginger) writes: >> >> > >> >In article <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org>, M16302@mwvm.mitre.org writes: >> >|>Path: I need to reduce the outer diameter of a titanium bicycle seatpost from >> >|>30.2 mm to 30.0 mm. ... >> > >> >Titanium is TOUGH stuff. ... For what it's worth.. I spoke to a the owner of a local machine shop who machines replacement bicycle chain sprockets out of titanium bar stock. He uses carbide cutters for durability but said that HSS cutters would work as well. The critical issue is getting the proper cutting angle and feed rate. -john From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab05.wwc.edu!johnric Thu Jan 20 15:16:49 EST 1994 Article: 3359 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab05.wwc.edu!johnric From: johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 18:43:33 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: krh_krhlab05.wwc.edu In article neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) writes: >From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) >Subject: Re: Blackening steel? >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 23:13:33 GMT >In article <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com> lucas@watson.ibm.com (Bruce Lucas) >D writes: >>"The Home Machinist's Handbook" recommends coating the part with motor >>oil and then baking in the oven at about 350 degrees for 10 minutes to >>obtain a "hard, durable black finish". > >I'll bet pizza cooked in that same oven afterwards sure would taste rotten. > Oppi Untracht's Jewelry book (sorry I can't remember the name only that its about 1000 pages (no joke)) says to coat the pieces of steel with oil and put it in an oven at about 550 for a peacock blue and then quenching in water. I have done this with a small piece of mild cold rolled steel with olive oil and I got a light purple color that was fairly tough. I reccomend olive oil because when it burns it smells like somebody's baking bread not motor oil. Rick From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!usenet.ccur.com!john Thu Jan 20 15:16:50 EST 1994 Article: 3360 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!usenet.ccur.com!john From: john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) Subject: Need sources for small drive parts Message-ID: Sender: usenet@westford.ccur.com (UNIX News) Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford, MA Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 19:47:44 GMT Lines: 8 I would appreciate pointers to sources for small (under 4") steel/CI/brass gears, worms, bronze sleeves, etc.. Mailorder would be fine, as would someplace more economical than $mall part$. Apologies if this is a FAQ. Alternatively, has anyone tried cutting gears with a flycutter and a tool bit ground to shape? Thanks. -john From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!uknet!pipex!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Fri Jan 21 13:09:08 EST 1994 Article: 3361 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!uknet!pipex!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel Date: 20 Jan 1994 20:49:18 GMT Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hmqoe$rc2@tymix.Tymnet.COM> References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com In article kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, sxk29@po.CWRU.Edu (Susan Kretschmer) writes: > > In fact, I remain pathetically ignorant of how you go about making a > knife or a sword at all. Do you use a mold? How do you get all the fancy > designs on it? All I know is that in movies somebody bangs on it impressively > with lots of flying sparks. Can anybody point me toward a reference book for > the complete novice? A lot of the subsequent plot hinges on various > technological advances, and I'd like to be as accurate as I can. > > Thanks for your time...I hope you've at least found this amusing! :) > > Susie Look for the book: "Pyrotechnica" (available from Linsey Publications as a reprint of the English-translation)...published in 1560, it should give you an overview of Medieval metal-working technology. You might also want to look at "De Re Metalica" (from dover books, author is Herbert Hoover - yes, the president!) for mining technology of 1540. JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!anon.penet.fi Fri Jan 21 13:09:09 EST 1994 Article: 3362 of rec.crafts.metalworking Message-ID: <212449Z20011994@anon.penet.fi> Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!anon.penet.fi Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: an56887@anon.penet.fi (Chance) X-Anonymously-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an56887@anon.penet.fi Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 00:04:41 UTC Subject: Chain Mail Lines: 22 Sorry about the anon. posting, but I'm using a friend's account. I'm in the SCA and have been doing chain mail (or more correctly, mail) for the past few years. I've got the oversized forearms and calloused hand to prove it. I've managed to do three shirts, two coifs, and various bikinis, bishops mantles, juggling balls, belts, bracelets, etc. and I'm working on a pair of pants right now. All the stuff I've done is butted mail. Consideding the time involved in making riveted or welded mail, it's just to expensive to sell. As for the number of links in a shirt, my personal one weights 25 lbs. and there are about 800 links per pounds (I thinks that's about right). Chance ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!basse Fri Jan 21 13:09:10 EST 1994 Article: 3363 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!basse From: basse@austin.ibm.com (Basse) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Originator: basse@basse.austin.ibm.com Sender: news@austin.ibm.com (News id) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 21:13:37 GMT Reply-To: YOURLOGIN@YOURCOMPUTER.austin.ibm.com References: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> <1994Jan19.154628.26123@mlb.semi.harris.com> Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 33 In article <1994Jan19.154628.26123@mlb.semi.harris.com>, jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) writes: > The only reliable source for pure lead I've found locally is one of those > stained glass craft places. I managed to pick up quite a bit of the lead > strip for cheap; it was somebody's special order that never got picked > up. My purpose is to melt it in with 60/40 solder (-very- available > as surplus at the recycling places) to end up with 30/70 bodywork-grade > solder (not available except at high prices). > This could get rather messy and/or hazardous but old auto batteries contain a lot of lead along with sulfuric acid. I haven't tried this but cut them open outdoors with lots of running water and thoroughly wash away the acid remove the plates and melt them. There will be lead sulfate present too but this will probably float as a solid on the surface of the molten lead and can be skimmed off. Be sure and wear face protection when doing this and old clothing because it will likely be splashed by acid during this operation. Rubber or other acid proof gloves are also advisable. If you decide to do this be CAREFUL!!! I'm not responsible for accidents or injury but the lead should be fairly pure. -- Hank Basse | IBM internal: basse@basse 512 838-1442 | basse.austin.ibm.com!basse@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com Only my opinion.| ibmpa!basse.austin.ibm.com!basse@ibminet.awdpa.ibm.com -- > ########################################################################## > #Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons # > #living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-# > #sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!# From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!spsgate!mogate!newsgate!nuntius Fri Jan 21 13:09:11 EST 1994 Article: 3364 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!spsgate!mogate!newsgate!nuntius From: Jim Jaskie Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) Message-ID: <1994Jan20.225500.16764@newsgate.sps.mot.com> Sender: news@newsgate.sps.mot.com Nntp-Posting-Host: 221.5.10.84 Organization: Motorola Phoenix Corp. Research Laboratory X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1994Jan20.154336.17384@ll.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 22:55:00 GMT Lines: 82 Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) From: Doug White, gwhite@ll.mit.edu In article <1994Jan20.154336.17384@ll.mit.edu> Doug White, gwhite@ll.mit.edu writes: > >In article <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, writes: >> >> Hi everyone! >> >> I'm writing a novel/series of fantasy short stories where one of the >> main characters is a blacksmith. The plot requires some technical detail; >> unfortunately I have only the vaguest idea about anything related to >> metalworking. I figured this would be the place to come for help... >> >> The blacksmith lives in a society where it is forbidden by their >> religion to craft anything from alloys; only pure metals can be used. As >> a young boy, however, he makes a knife that defies that rule, and it turns >out >> to be a much better knife than any other (keeps an edge better, is sharper, >> stronger, or maybe (my last choice) the alloy is just easier to work with >than >> a pure metal and he can make it fancier or something). >> >> Question: what two metals should he pour together (in dramatic defiance >> the complete novice? A lot of the subsequent plot hinges on various >> technological advances, and I'd like to be as accurate as I can. >> >> Thanks for your time...I hope you've at least found this amusing! :) >> >> Susie >> -- >> Susie Kretschmer >> CWRU School of Medicine "Don't ask me, I'm just improvising" >> MSTP Class of 1998 --Rush, PRESTO >> Internet: sxk29@po.cwru.edu > >If you want to get fancy (and historically accurate), there are instances >of people making 'stainless steel' in the middle ages. They didn't know >the metalurgy behind it, but depending upon where they got their raw >materials, it was possible to get enough of the right impurities to >produce alloy steel with properties superior to what they could ordinairily >produce. One of the most prized items for producing these alloys was >iron from a meteorite. Aside from having lots of mystical implications, >it usually has a high nickel content, which when alloyed with regular >iron in the right proportions would produce steel with 'magical' properties. >I don't know of any concrete references on this, but I have it on good >authority (a silver-smithing instructor at the De Cordova Museum in Lincoln, >MA, who does metal work of all sorts). > >Doug White >MIT Lincoln Laboratory The use of meteorites was high tech during the middle ages. A meteor was considered a sign from above, often considered an omen of military victory. The meteorite "stone" (though commonly of high nickel content), if found, would be used for sword making to continue the omen. This is believed to be the source of the "Sword in the Stone" legends that occur across Europe. The swords made from this high nickel/iron alloy would be much harder than a regular wrought iron or steel sword. When struck it would ring or "sing" (because of the hardness). This is probably the origin of the "Singing Sword" type of legend. This alloy tool steel sword would also be considerably more impressive banging on the enemy's armor plate than a wrought iron sword. Now, if the meteorite landed in a lake, is this a gift of the "Lady in the Lake"? At any rate, Scientific American had an article on this about 15 years ago. Fascinating stuff. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mbushore Fri Jan 21 13:09:12 EST 1994 Article: 3365 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mbushore From: mbushore@icaen.uiowa.edu (Matt Bushore) Subject: Re: Lathing down a titanium bicycle seatpost Message-ID: <1994Jan20.231052.8761@icaen.uiowa.edu> Originator: mbushore@l_ecn06 Sender: usenet@icaen.uiowa.edu (UseNet News daemon) Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa References: <16F3D11B9AS85.M16302@mwvm.mitre.org> <2hed8f$1v8@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <1994Jan18.230403.15911@rp.CSIRO.AU> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 23:10:52 GMT Lines: 23 I am kind of an idiot when it comes to such things as this, and my idea will show it. 1) Center drill the top of the post enough to mount it on center. Most of the posts I have seen have enough stock to do this, or if not bolt a plate of Al to the top and center drill that. 2) Use a toolpost grinder to turn it between centers, with the top of the post at the head of the lathe. There should be enough stock at the top to use a dog on. 3) Grind from the top towards the bottom, as you will most likely not need to reduce the diameter all the way to the top. I have never tried to grind Ti, heck, I just started my 'training', so its just an idea. -- Matt Bushore -- Matt Bushore From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry Fri Jan 21 13:09:13 EST 1994 Article: 3366 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel Message-ID: <1994Jan21.000056.24044@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> Sender: nobody@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com (Nobody - UID must be 99999) Nntp-Posting-Host: hpcvxhp.cv.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.9] References: <2hmqoe$rc2@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 00:00:56 GMT Lines: 7 John Kopf, X6305 (kopfj@Tymnet.COM) wrote: : You might also want to look at "De Re Metalica" (from dover books, author is : Herbert Hoover - yes, the president!) for mining technology of 1540. Hoover translated rather than wrote this book, as the date may suggest. Harry Phinney harry@cv.hp.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Fri Jan 21 13:09:14 EST 1994 Article: 3367 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Induction furnace Message-ID: <1994Jan20.110328.1195@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 20 Jan 94 11:03:27 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 13 A short time ago, somebody was asking about induction furnaces. The latest flier from Ah-Ha! Design Group states they are working on the plans and kit for a do-it-yerself induction furnace. No indication of when it will be available, but they'd probably appreciate a call from anybody interested, just to let them know of a potential customer! Their phone is (612) 331-7657. They advertise in HSM and market CNC kits for lathes and mills. I have no connection other than being interested in their stuff. Jim From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!npstewar Fri Jan 21 13:09:15 EST 1994 Article: 3368 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!npstewar From: npstewar@eos.ncsu.edu (NATHAN PHILLIP STEWART) Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) Message-ID: <1994Jan20.234441.6422@ncsu.edu> Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System) Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 23:44:41 GMT Lines: 16 In article <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> sxk29@po.CWRU.Edu (Susan Kretschmer) writes: > >Hi everyone! > > I'm writing a novel/series of fantasy short stories where one of the >main characters is a blacksmith. The plot requires some technical detail; >unfortunately I have only the vaguest idea about anything related to >metalworking. I figured this would be the place to come for help... > > Question: what two metals should he pour together (in dramatic defiance >of the priests!) in order to make his knife? It would be useful if one of them >was copper, so that the resulting knife is a color that no pure metal would be. Hmmm. Copper - Berrylium maybe? Except you wouldn't be able to see anything but a "copper" blade. Ever since I heard of this little precip hardening trick, I always thought it would be a neato blade, since copper is normally way too soft for such purposes. Nate From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail Fri Jan 21 13:09:16 EST 1994 Article: 3369 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail From: danw@panix.com (Dan Wold) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Hardening Stainless Date: 20 Jan 1994 20:44:00 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 12 Message-ID: <2hnc10$pjl@panix2.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com I've been making sidewalk ice-choppers. The blade is 1/8" 316 alloy stainless-steel. I grind a chisel edge onto the blade. Can someone advise me on how to harden/temper these blades to increase the durability? Thanks, Dan ======================================================================= Daniel Wold Sysop: "WORLD CITIZEN" BBS 239 City Island Avenue 718-885-2346 24 hours 14.4kbaud City Island, Bronx, NY 10464 Internet: danw@panix.com Fidonet: Daniel.Wold@1:2603/503 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!usenet-feed.umr.edu!saucer.cc.umr.edu!dabaker Fri Jan 21 13:09:17 EST 1994 Article: 3370 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!usenet-feed.umr.edu!saucer.cc.umr.edu!dabaker From: dabaker@saucer.cc.umr.edu (Dwayne Baker) Subject: Torch Temps Wanted Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 02:26:58 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: saucer.cc.umr.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Organization: University of Missouri-Rolla, Missouri's Technological University Sender: cnews@umr.edu (UMR Usenet News Administration) Message-ID: <1994Jan21.022658.9972@umr.edu> Lines: 14 I was hoping someone could give me an idea of the max temperatures for some different torches. Specifically: MAPP Gas, Propane, Butane, Oxy/Mapp, Oxy/Propane, and Oxy/Butane I plan on using the torch to melt brass and nickle based metals for the casting of jewelery. Thanks for all help!!! Dwayne Baker, dabaker@umr.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!sxk29 Fri Jan 21 13:09:18 EST 1994 Article: 3371 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!po.CWRU.Edu!sxk29 From: sxk29@po.CWRU.Edu (Susan Kretschmer) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (Thanks!) Date: 21 Jan 1994 07:31:00 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 77 Message-ID: <2ho0bk$7ib@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <2hmaga$k5r@slab.mtholyoke.edu> Reply-To: sxk29@po.CWRU.Edu (Susan Kretschmer) NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu Wow! What a great response. Thanks to all who answered my questions, by both post and email. I got tons of useful info, and a lot of good book references. As to my plot, it will need some work, but I'm off to the library to read up on swordmaking et al., now that I have some idea of what books to look for. However, for everything that turned out to be impractical, I also found some cool new ideas. In a previous article, wkaiser@mtholyoke.edu (William F. Kaiser) says: >An author looking for technical accuracy. Great! I get annoyed by >stories full of inaccuracies and ignorance of a subject. Awww. :) Hey, I try... Inaccuracies bug me too. > >First off, a blacksmith works the black metal - iron. There were also >coppersmiths, tinsmiths, whitesmiths, etc. Maybe you just want a generic >smith. Point taken...he's a generic smith, then. > >> The blacksmith lives in a society where it is forbidden by their >> religion to craft anything from alloys; only pure metals can be used. > >You might want to consider how your society gets _pure_ metals. Getting >extraneous crud out of metals is often not a trivial task. A lot of people made this point. Actually I just meant "pure within the limits of the society's technology". They don't necessarily get things all that pure really. Part of the idea behind the religious proviso was that if you spent all that time and effort in the (priest-sanctioned) task of getting it pure, the last thing you'd want to do would be to mix them up again on purpose. Thus that eventually got mangled into "thou shalt NEVER mix metals together". This is also a society where any technological innovation is a sin, so... (oops, munched too much here, he was talking about teeny amounts of iron alloyed with copper) >but in larger >amounts you may get something that no one particularly wants. Yep, that was the consensus on copper/iron. Although I did take basic chem in college it was a while ago; the melting point thing makes sense. >Your copper - bronze idea is practical for a story idea. You might also yes, if I use the scene at all, I'll likely use bronze...I need to decide exactly what level of technology they've achieved. >look into Damascus steel for a blade. It begins with a layer of iron and >steel welded together, folded and welded again, through many cycles. It >looks distinctively different from a homogeneous steel blade, and has many >advantages over wrought iron. again, recommended by most people. This may show up later *grin* as something the smith either figures out or learns from a master in another land, when he's grown up. Again, thanks for straightening me out concerning steel; I didn't know anything about steel at all, not even its true definition, nor the difference between cast iron and wrought iron. > >Have fun. Let us know when your novel/series is published. > I will! :) Cross your fingers for me... Thanks again for everything! Susie -- Susie Kretschmer CWRU School of Medicine "Don't ask me, I'm just improvising" MSTP Class of 1998 --Rush, PRESTO Internet: sxk29@po.cwru.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Fri Jan 21 13:09:20 EST 1994 Article: 3372 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy n Date: 21 Jan 1994 13:10:40 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hok8g$7pj@oak.oakland.edu> References: <2hmqoe$rc2@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article rc2@tymix.Tymnet.COM, kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) writes: > >You might also want to look at "De Re Metalica" (from dover books, author is >Herbert Hoover - yes, the president!) for mining technology of 1540. > Translated by Hoover, not written- I don't believe Herbert was around in 1540 ;-) I believe Lindsay has this book, too. It covers all aspects of mining, refining and working metal. --mike From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Fri Jan 21 13:09:21 EST 1994 Article: 3373 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 13:20:29 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 21 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> <2hm62v$cj3@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article <2hm62v$cj3@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith) wrote: Melt the wheelweights as usual but do not flux the mix. Once everything is > melted, stir lightly, fish out all the steel clips and other trash, then just > leave the pot alone for about a half hour without stirring or otherwise > disturbing it and the antimony and tin, being lighter than the lead, will > rise to the top where it can be skimmed off and saved for addition to a batch > later on when regular harder bullets are cast. > > Any left over dross will rise to the very top, the tin will be under this > and will look like a grayish scum. The antimony will be under the tin and > will look like a grayish powder. > I'm amazed that this works. I thought these metals were miscible in the melt, so they wouldn't separate like this. Maybe the miscibility is temperature- dependent. Anybody got a phase diagram? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!news.yale.edu!commons11-2-kstar-node.net.yale.edu!user Fri Jan 21 13:09:22 EST 1994 Article: 3374 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!news.yale.edu!commons11-2-kstar-node.net.yale.edu!user From: robert_bickerton@quickmail.yale.edu () Subject: Re: Need sources for small drive parts Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Sender: news@news.yale.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: commons11-2-kstar-node.net.yale.edu Organization: Yale University References: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 15:13:28 GMT Lines: 11 In article , john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) wrote: > [deleted} > Alternatively, has anyone tried cutting gears with a flycutter and a tool > bit ground to shape? Thanks. > I haven't done it but the video by Rudy Kohoupt "How to Cut Spur Gears" shows him cutting an aluminum gear with a fly cutter. Also, in the HSM book "The Shop Wisdom of Philip Duclos" Duclos describes how to make the cutting tool for fly cutting a gear for one of his engines. Hope this helps! From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!trinews.sbc.com!wedge!tadams Fri Jan 21 13:09:23 EST 1994 Article: 3375 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!trinews.sbc.com!wedge!tadams From: tadams@wedge (Tom. Adams 529-7860) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ location? Date: 21 Jan 1994 16:36:26 GMT Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources Lines: 11 Message-ID: <2hp0aa$t2v@sbctri.sbc.com> Reply-To: tadams@sbctri.sbc.com NNTP-Posting-Host: wedge.sbc.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking doesn't seem to get posted to news.answers, which prevents it from being archived. Could whoever is maintaining the FAQ please look into this? If it's too much trouble, I'll do it. Also if someone could point me towards a ftpable copy of the faq I'd appreciate it. A co-worker friend needs to find a source for a #1 die. -- Tom Adams Southwestern Bell Technology Resources Telephone:314-529-7860 Fax:314-529-7573 Use this email address -->> tadams@sbctri.sbc.com <<<--- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!trinews.sbc.com!wedge!tadams Fri Jan 21 13:09:24 EST 1994 Article: 3376 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!trinews.sbc.com!wedge!tadams From: tadams@wedge (Tom. Adams 529-7860) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Bolts, size #0 thru #8 Date: 21 Jan 1994 16:39:20 GMT Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources Lines: 16 Message-ID: <2hp0fo$t2v@sbctri.sbc.com> Reply-To: tadams@sbctri.sbc.com NNTP-Posting-Host: wedge.sbc.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Forwarding another request for "Will_Chorley@trigate.sbc.com", my Unix avoiding, metal working co-worker. 1/21/94 10:19 AM FWD>Bolts Could you send out onother request on your universal information network. I would like to know where I can get small hex. head bolts sizes #0 thru #8 in various lengths in steel, stainless steel and brass. Thanks Will -- Tom Adams Southwestern Bell Technology Resources Telephone:314-529-7860 Fax:314-529-7573 Use this email address -->> tadams@sbctri.sbc.com <<<--- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Sat Jan 22 13:08:56 EST 1994 Article: 3377 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Bolts, size #0 thru #8 Message-ID: <1994Jan21.105435.187@flying-disk.com> Date: 21 Jan 94 10:54:35 PST References: <2hp0fo$t2v@sbctri.sbc.com> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 34 > I would like to know where I can get small hex. head bolts > sizes #0 thru #8 in various lengths in steel, stainless steel and > brass. Power Model Supply Co. has these, with the added bonus that the heads and nuts are *scale*! Because scale bolts and nuts are not common, they are a bit pricey. However, they make your model look a *lot* better. Square nuts are even available. For example, steel 6-32 x 1/2" bolts are $1.70 for ten. Stainless steel is $3.45/10 and brass is $1.95/10. They also have assortments (nuts and bolts in various lengths) in sizes from #0 to #10. Assortment prices range from $25 to $75 depending on material and size. I purchased several assortments (they come in a compart- mented plastic box) and am pleased with them. They charge $5 for their catalog, but it is worth it for the wealth of model-making supplies that they have. This is where I got 2 degree tapered end mills for pattern making. Power Model Supply Co. Route 1, Box 177 N.W. Corner of Hwy 67 and Long Road DeSoto, MO 63020 (314) 586-6466 -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry Sat Jan 22 13:08:57 EST 1994 Article: 3378 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) Subject: Re: Hardening Stainless Message-ID: <1994Jan21.190249.15981@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> Sender: nobody@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com (Nobody - UID must be 99999) Nntp-Posting-Host: hpcvxhp.cv.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.9] References: <2hnc10$pjl@panix2.panix.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:02:49 GMT Lines: 17 Dan Wold (danw@panix.com) wrote: : The blade is 1/8" 316 alloy : stainless-steel. : ...Can someone advise me : on how to harden/temper these blades to increase the durability? I'm not a true expert on this, but I don't believe 316 stainless is hardenable. It's carbon content is low enough (<0.10%) that I don't think you'll get any appreciable hardening via heat treatment. It may be possible to case harden the blades, but increasing the carbon content of the surface (the point of case hardening) will likely significantly decrease the corrosion resistance of the metal. You'd probably be better off (except perhaps financially :-() by selecting a different alloy, such as one of the 400 series martensitic stainless steels which is hardenable. Harry Phinney harry@cv.hp.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utcsri!psych.toronto.edu!colin Sat Jan 22 13:08:58 EST 1994 Article: 3379 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utcsri!psych.toronto.edu!colin From: colin@psych.toronto.edu (Colin Hinz) Subject: Re: Need sources for small drive parts Message-ID: Organization: Dept. of Psychology, University of Toronto References: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:01:01 GMT Lines: 21 john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) writes: >I would appreciate pointers to sources for small (under 4") steel/CI/brass >gears, worms, bronze sleeves, etc.. Mailorder would be fine, as would >someplace more economical than $mall part$. Apologies if this is a FAQ. > This is going to sound completely daft, but have you considered using Meccano/Erector parts? All of the gears, pinions, worms, collars and other small machined parts are all made of brass with a reasonable degree of precision. All of the parts have a 0.160" bore, which is #8 British Wire Gauge. Prices range from reasonable to very very cheap (compared with some prices i got from a Boston Gear distributor a while back). If more info is desired (i have a supplier list already entered in) just let me know. - Colin Colin Hinz GE/GMU: (!)d-- -p+(---) c++(++++) l u(+) (705)EAR-JUNK !e- m+^2@ s (!)n+ h+ f* g-(+++) colin@psych.toronto.edu w+++ t-- r(-) g+(*)@ y+(*)@ From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Sat Jan 22 13:08:58 EST 1994 Article: 3380 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msc.edu!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Twin Cities 'Steam' show in February Message-ID: <1994Jan21.134718.4066@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 42 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] Distribution: usa Date: 21 Jan 94 13:47:18 CST Greetings. This is intended for readers in reasonable driving range to the Minneapolis/St. Paul. As far as I can tell the "Distribution" on a posting doesn't actually affect where the message goes, so to those of you disinterested through distance (or disinterest) sorry for wasting your time. Feel free to delete the message and write it off as noise... If there's anyone else left reading this, the subject is (I quote) the "ENCO/MODELTEC Steam Engine Show" This is slated for February 19th, 1994 between 8:00am and 4:00 pm. The manager of the Minneapolis/St. Paul branch of ENCO... (it's at 990 Lone Oak Road, Eagan, MN 55121 - just east of I35E on Lone Oak) ... decided it would be fun to try and put together a day of steam and gas engines. He has some people signed up to bring things along; they will be offering some $50.00 door prizes and refreshments; there may be some specials for the day on some small machine tools as well. An ad for this event was in the last issue of Modeltec (hence the connection); George Broad, the editor, will be there at some point during the day. I'll repost this again closer to the date, but it never hurts to pass the word around. If you are remotely interested in the subject, try and get along. If you need to buy something, even as trivial as a new drill bit, see if you can buy it on that day. No, I don't have any association with ENCO, but the guy seems keen to do this sort of thing "more than once", so the more interest and activity he sees, the more likely he is to do it again. If it gets a lot of attention, maybe he'll offer more and better incentives. If it works well for him, maybe other ENCO branches will do something similar. They are maintaining a sign up sheet at the store, presumably to try and gauge the level of interest. If you are interested, give them a call on (612)-454-1046 and tell them. Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Sat Jan 22 13:08:59 EST 1994 Article: 3381 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Message-ID: <1994Jan21.201937.28102@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 20:19:37 GMT Lines: 17 pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) writes: : > : > Any left over dross will rise to the very top, the tin will be under this : > and will look like a grayish scum. The antimony will be under the tin and : > will look like a grayish powder. : : I'm amazed that this works. I thought these metals were miscible in the : melt, : so they wouldn't separate like this. Maybe the miscibility is temperature- : dependent. Anybody got a phase diagram? They will not separate completely, but some of the tin will oxidize. I am not sure about the antimony. You could distill off the lead, but even that would not be pure. Bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!drs Sat Jan 22 13:09:00 EST 1994 Article: 3382 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!drs From: drs@col.hp.com (Don Simmons) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Pipe Dimensions Date: 21 Jan 1994 21:15:02 GMT Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division Lines: 12 Message-ID: <2hpgkm$5mh@hp-col.col.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hpctdkg.col.hp.com Would anyone have on-line or know where I could get the dimensions both internal and external for "standard" galvanized pipe? Much thanks. Don From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Sat Jan 22 13:09:01 EST 1994 Article: 3383 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Message-ID: <9jx309j@dixie.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 20:30:20 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> <1994Jan19.154628.26123@mlb.semi.harris.com> Lines: 64 basse@austin.ibm.com (Basse) writes: >This could get rather messy and/or hazardous but old auto batteries contain >a lot of lead along with sulfuric acid. I haven't tried this but cut them >open outdoors with lots of running water and thoroughly wash away the acid >remove the plates and melt them. There will be lead sulfate present too but >this will probably float as a solid on the surface of the molten lead and can >be skimmed off. Be sure and wear face protection when doing this and old >clothing because it will likely be splashed by acid during this operation. >Rubber or other acid proof gloves are also advisable. If you decide to do >this be CAREFUL!!! I'm not responsible for accidents or injury but the lead >should be fairly pure. It works better just to smelt 'em in place. Smelting reduces the lead sulfate to lead so the recovery is much better. Here's how I used to do it (and may still :-) With a small pickax or similar implement, poke holes in each cell of the battery. Stash it someone convenient like a ditch to drain. The acid is corrosive but typically not terribly strong in heavily sulfated batteries typical of dead ones. Using firebrick, build a square box about 18" to the side and about a foot tall. Leave a small door on one side through which air can be blown. Fill this box with charcoal. Sit a battery atop the pile. Build a firebrick chimney around the battery so that an inch or so of charcoal can be stacked on all sides of the battery. Fairly heavily dust the battery with slaked lime. Stack anohter couple of inches of charcoal on top of the battery. Then repeat this process until you have 4 or 5 batteries stacked up. Ignite the charcoal in the bottom with fluid or whatever and apply a strong draft of air to the opening. Ignite the charcoal in several places around the batteries with a propane torch stuck through the bricks. The reducing agent is carbon monoxide which is produced as the charcoal burns incompletely. The pale blue flame that burns from the top of this stack is the excess CO. You want the fire to be fairly hot in order to activate the reducing reaction but you also want it to burn oxygen starved to produce lots of CO. The very hot fire in the bottom provides the heat and the charcoal around and atop the batteries provides the reducing environment. Lime is the flux. When you have this thing cooking right there will be a pale yellow, partially opaque, very choking smoke emerging from the top of the furnace. These are the various oxides of sulfur. It will burn the lungs and defoliate trees. Stay upwind. Sure it's environmentally politically incorrect so if it bothers you, don't do it. When this thing burns out and you unstack the firebricks you will find a nice solid pool of lead and a bunch of scuzz. The scuzz is moderately toxic because it contains the residual lead sulfates and oxides. Either bury or bag it for disposal and wear a respirator (NOT a dustmask). The lead will contain some cadmium and maybe some calcium if from maintenance-free batteries but that can be scavenged as previously mentioned. The lead recovery rate from this process is very high, much higher than merely melting the plates. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com "Would you fire on US Citizens while in the process of confiscating their guns?" A question on a survey given to members of the U.S. counterterrorist unit Navy SEAL Team Six by their commanders last September. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Sat Jan 22 13:09:01 EST 1994 Article: 3384 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Message-ID: <1994Jan21.120339.188@flying-disk.com> Date: 21 Jan 94 12:03:39 PST References: <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com> <1994Jan16.080240.186@flying-disk.com> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 35 In article , jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes: Thank you for your answers about blackening techniques. I still have a few remaining questions, however. Since motor oil is not suitable, what kind would work best? Of the other techniques, I am still a bit unsure which one gives: 1) The darkest, blackest color. 2) The most durable coating. I have some lathe toolholders made by KDK that are an intense, deep black color that appears to be quite durable. This is the sort of thing I would like to duplicate. I just got the Brownell's catalog and see that they have a variety of blueing kits. I don't want a blue color, so I am a bit confused by references to "blueing". Could you comment on this a bit? I guess that gun fans all know this sort of thing, but I don't. In your opinion, what is the best book on the subject? Thank you for your assistance. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Sat Jan 22 13:09:02 EST 1994 Article: 3385 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Rotary phase converters Message-ID: <1994Jan20.191523.1206@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 20 Jan 94 19:15:21 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) References: Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Keywords: 3-phase converter, Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 29 MARTIN@cubic.com (Bill W. Martin) writes: |> If anyone has info on using a large 3-phase motor as a phase |>converter, ie 1-phase power to 3-phase power, I have a couple of questions. |>First, how much power is consumed at idle load condition, relative to the |>size of the motor being run? I don't have a direct answer to this. However, what I have read suggests that the converter be about twice the size of the load, i.e. use a 2-HP motor as a converter to run a 1-HP 3-phase motor. |>Second, can a dual-voltage 3-phase motor be configured as a kind of " |>rotating transformer" to step up 220V to 440V ? Here I am only guessing at "no". At least with the few 1-phase motors I've run across, you have to jumper some wires to configure for a particular voltage, not just use some and let others dangle like you might with a simple transformer. Also, with a "normal" converter, one of the output phases is simply the input power, so you'd have to figure out how to double that. However, it might still be possible to select leads in a non-standard way and run power in to just 1/2 of one winding, but you'd probably have to derate efficiency even more. I've been collecting HSM and PIM articles on this (there is an update in the latest HSM which I have not read yet), and ordered (but not yet received) a book from Lindsay publishing. I'll look for any reference to voltage conversion when I can and report. Jim From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep Sat Jan 22 13:09:03 EST 1994 Article: 3386 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep From: bleep@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (bui tho xuan) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Hardening Stainless Date: 22 Jan 1994 00:22:57 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Lines: 20 Message-ID: <2hprl1$3do@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <2hnc10$pjl@panix2.panix.com> <1994Jan21.190249.15981@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ux1.cso.uiuc.edu harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes: >Dan Wold (danw@panix.com) wrote: >: The blade is 1/8" 316 alloy >: stainless-steel. >: ...Can someone advise me >: on how to harden/temper these blades to increase the durability? > >I'm not a true expert on this, but I don't believe 316 stainless is >hardenable. It's carbon content is low enough (<0.10%) that I don't >think you'll get any appreciable hardening via heat treatment. Harry is correct. The only other option (if it's not done already) is to get cold rolled instead of annealed SS. This will increase your strength/hardness some, and reduce corrosion resistance a little. Otherwise, get martensitic stainless. tho From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news Sat Jan 22 13:09:04 EST 1994 Article: 3387 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: Re: Bolts, size #0 thru #8 Message-ID: Sender: Greg Lewis Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno References: <2hp0fo$t2v@sbctri.sbc.com> <1994Jan21.105435.187@flying-disk.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 02:48:10 GMT Expires: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 08:00:00 GMT Lines: 9 A company called Micro Fasteners advertises in Home Shop Machinist. 110 Hillcrest Rd.; Flemington, NY 08822; 800-892-6917; fax 908-788-2607. The ad says for example 2-56 x 3/8 stainless hex head $7.25 per 100. Haven't tried them... just saw the ad. ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news Sat Jan 22 13:09:05 EST 1994 Article: 3388 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: Re: Pipe Dimensions Message-ID: Sender: Greg Lewis Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno References: <2hpgkm$5mh@hp-col.col.hp.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 02:54:10 GMT Expires: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 08:00:00 GMT Lines: 23 In article <2hpgkm$5mh@hp-col.col.hp.com> drs@col.hp.com (Don Simmons) writes: > Would anyone have on-line or know > > where I could get the dimensions > > both internal and external for > > "standard" galvanized pipe? > > Much thanks. > > Don > Any decent library should have this info. One source is Machinery's Handbook which should be in the reference section. ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news Sat Jan 22 13:09:06 EST 1994 Article: 3389 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: Toolaholic needs help in crisis Message-ID: Sender: news@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 03:08:25 GMT Lines: 21 How do you deal with it when your emotional self wants a tool and your rational self says you don't need it? There is an Atlas horizontal mill for sale down the road. If it was a great buy, I'd have no problem... I'd just buy it. But the price is just about what it is worth, so it's nothing to get stirred up over. But my tool-a-holic emotional self wants this mill, primarily because I don't already have one. Also, it's cute. And it's in acceptable shape, and includes some tooling. But my rational self says I already have a Clausing vertical mill and a milling attachment for my 12" lathe. Most everything you can do on a horiz. mill can be done on a vert. mill; I'll never use it enough to warrant the investment and shop space. And it's a bench-top model with correspondingly small table and movements, which further limit its usefulness. But I'm waking up at night thinking about it. Please tell me I don't need this thing! ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!netnews.wku.edu!cabanrf Sat Jan 22 13:09:06 EST 1994 Article: 3390 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!netnews.wku.edu!cabanrf From: cabanrf@wkuvx1.wku.edu (Roy F. Cabaniss) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) Message-ID: <1994Jan21.230115.9906@netnews.wku.edu> Date: 21 Jan 94 23:01:15 CST References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY Lines: 85 In article <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, sxk29@po.CWRU.Edu (Susan Kretschmer) writes: > > Hi everyone! > > I'm writing a novel/series of fantasy short stories where one of the > main characters is a blacksmith. The plot requires some technical detail; > unfortunately I have only the vaguest idea about anything related to > metalworking. I figured this would be the place to come for help... > > The blacksmith lives in a society where it is forbidden by their > religion to craft anything from alloys; only pure metals can be used. As > a young boy, however, he makes a knife that defies that rule, and it turns out > to be a much better knife than any other (keeps an edge better, is sharper, > stronger, or maybe (my last choice) the alloy is just easier to work with than > a pure metal and he can make it fancier or something). > > Question: what two metals should he pour together (in dramatic defiance > of the priests!) in order to make his knife? It would be useful if one of them > was copper, so that the resulting knife is a color that no pure metal would be. > Then if anyone sees the knife they know it's been made against the rules. > It occured to me to use bronze (copper and tin, right?), but someone else told > me that would make a way _worse_ knife, which sounds right now that I think > about it. Your first thought is right. (That's why we call it the bronze age.) It's harder and keeps an edge better. >Is there a mixture besides steel that would be superior to pure > iron? Iron of the medieval times was already alloys of some form or another. Upping the carbvon content of iron was relatively common, though not apparant to the naked eye. >How far beyond medieval technology is steelmaking anyway? How medieval it the relavant quesiton here. And whose medieval? European, Middle eastern, Chinese, Japanese? The _Golossary for Armns andArmor_ says Damascus steel started around the 10 century. You can bet your bottom dollar that the Je Japanese were making swords of iron before 900 AD. So I don't think it beyond medieval technology to be making steel. Especially if the suspicions aboutDamascus being a layered cast iron form with the iron being poured around the matrix are correct. >And what > would you get if you poured copper and iron together? > I remember that there is a specific name for it, but I don't know what that name is. Hope this helped. Roy F. Cabaniss Western Kentucky University cabanrf@wkuvx1.wku.edu : rfrcaban@wkyuvm Life is a metaphor for a baseball game. **If it came from my account, ain't no one else responsible!!** *************************************************************** > In fact, I remain pathetically ignorant of how you go about making a > knife or a sword at all. Do you use a mold? How do you get all the fancy > designs on it? All I know is that in movies somebody bangs on it impressively > with lots of flying sparks. Can anybody point me toward a reference book for > the complete novice? A lot of the subsequent plot hinges on various > technological advances, and I'd like to be as accurate as I can. > > Thanks for your time...I hope you've at least found this amusing! :) > > Susie > -- > Susie Kretschmer > CWRU School of Medicine "Don't ask me, I'm just improvising" > MSTP Class of 1998 --Rush, PRESTO > Internet: sxk29@po.cwru.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Sat Jan 22 13:09:07 EST 1994 Article: 3391 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: Toolaholic needs help in crisis Message-ID: <1994Jan21.234528.22400@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 32 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: Date: 21 Jan 94 23:45:27 CST Greg Lewis (gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU) wrote: : How do you deal with it when your emotional self wants a tool and your : rational self says you don't need it?... Well, sorry Greg. From this corner of the universe, if I have available both money and space, I'd fall for it like a shot... particularly if the tooling is available or already owned. If the tool is in good condition and worth the money, it is arguably an investment, particularly if you keep it in good condition. Then again, when it comes to buying a new tool, I can find a good argument in the most improbable pretence. Mary, my wife, encourages me on the basis that it makes me happy... God bless her (Idiot grin applies here...) I know, it's not what you wanted to hear. Or isn't it? After all, if you *really* didn't want it you wouldn't have asked, would you? *grin* Tim p.s. Did anyone else like todays "Calvin & Hobbes"? Mary was laughing her head off when she handed it to me this morning... -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!icaen.uiowa.edu!mbushore Sat Jan 22 13:09:08 EST 1994 Article: 3392 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!icaen.uiowa.edu!mbushore From: mbushore@icaen.uiowa.edu (Matt Bushore) Subject: Re: Toolaholic needs help in crisis Message-ID: <1994Jan22.164610.16719@icaen.uiowa.edu> Sender: usenet@icaen.uiowa.edu (UseNet News daemon) Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa References: Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 16:46:10 GMT Lines: 10 In article , gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes|> |> Please tell me I don't need this thing! Well, you really dont need it. The shop that I work in just got rid of their horz. mill on the basis that a vertical mill could do just about the same thing. They do however have a right angle attachment for the Bridgeport, so perhaps you should jsut get one of those to satisfy your need? -- Matt Bushore From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!rsg1.er.usgs.gov!news.cs.indiana.edu!babbage.ece.uc.edu!ucunix.san.uc.edu!ucunix.san.uc.edu!not-for-mail Sat Jan 22 22:09:58 EST 1994 Article: 3393 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!rsg1.er.usgs.gov!news.cs.indiana.edu!babbage.ece.uc.edu!ucunix.san.uc.edu!ucunix.san.uc.edu!not-for-mail From: peterson@ucunix.san.uc.edu (John M. Peterson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Hardening Stainless Date: 22 Jan 1994 13:44:28 -0500 Organization: University of Cincinnati Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hrs6c$5o5@ucunix.san.uc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucunix.san.uc.edu > >Dan Wold (danw@panix.com) wrote: >: The blade is 1/8" 316 alloy >: stainless-steel. >: ...Can someone advise me >: on how to harden/temper these blades to increase the durability? > >such as one of the 400 series martensitic stainless steels which is >hardenable. > OR Since most(?) stainless "work hardens", instead of grinding, cold form your edges by hammering. Then, dress with a grinder, being careful not to heat the edge. Like copper, which also work hardens, stainless is anneled by heating (dull red) and quinching. You may even try anneling it as the first step. My experience is that it doesn't take alot of banging to get stainless to toughen. jp From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!oduvm!mje100g Sat Jan 22 22:09:59 EST 1994 Article: 3394 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!oduvm!mje100g Organization: Old Dominion University - Computing & Communications Services Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 13:56:06 EST From: Message-ID: <94022.135606MJE100G@ODUVM.BITNET> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? References: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> <1994Jan19.154628.26123@mlb.semi.harris.com> <9jx309j@dixie.com> Lines: 14 Smelting Whole Batteries- Hmm let's see how many potential problems with this approach. 1) Draining acid into groundwater 2) Lot's of nasty sulfur fumes 3) Most probably lots and lots of lead fumes I'm all for DIY projects, but this just sounds like a REAL bad idea. I would put this past being politcally incorrect. I feel this would be very environmentally unsound, pretty dangerous without the right sort of protective gear and almost definitely illegal (both water and air pollution) in most places. Remember, old batteries are categorized as hazardous wastes for good reasons. I hate to flame anyones response, but this just seems to be a bad idea. Mike I just don't imagine one will save all that much $$. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!pacbell.com!amdahl!JUTS!rmm20 Sat Jan 22 22:10:00 EST 1994 Article: 3395 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!pacbell.com!amdahl!JUTS!rmm20 From: rmm20@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Robert Mitchell) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Message-ID: Date: 20 Jan 94 15:50:35 GMT References: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> <1994Jan19.154628.26123@mlb.semi.harris.com> Reply-To: rmm20@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Robert Mitchell) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 32 In article <1994Jan19.154628.26123@mlb.semi.harris.com> jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) writes: > > The only reliable source for pure lead I've found locally is one of those >stained glass craft places. I managed to pick up quite a bit of the lead >strip for cheap; it was somebody's special order that never got picked >up. My purpose is to melt it in with 60/40 solder (-very- available >as surplus at the recycling places) to end up with 30/70 bodywork-grade >solder (not available except at high prices). >-- Warning - I am posting from memory here. One source I found for pure lead was Plumber's solder, from a plumbing supply house. My best supply was old window weights from a scrap metal dealer. When I was casting lead bullets, I found wheel weights to be way too high in antimony. Very hard for black powder. Lyman has a formula (#2) for lead mixture for casting;it seems perfect. "Lead free" solder is about 99%+ tin, and is also available at a plumbing supply house. Lyman #2 is a mixture of all three, and should be described in any of their publications. - Robert Mitchell -- UUCP: robert@mithril.cupertino.ca.us DDD: 408-746-8491 Fax: 408-725-8638 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 205, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com!paul Sat Jan 22 22:10:00 EST 1994 Article: 3396 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com!paul From: paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Paul Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Milling in the Home Workshop Date: 22 Jan 1994 23:45:21 GMT Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Urbana Design Center Lines: 21 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hsdqh$b5j@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.191.64.4 In the Sep/Oct 1993 issue of HSM, the part 2 article, "Thoughts on Selecting Vertical Mills" by Thomas F. Howard lists a book entitled "Milling in the Home Workshop" by Arnold Throp, published by Argus House in England. They informed me that the book has been out of print for some time. The giant Big 10 University library mere blocks from my house doesn't even have a copy. Does anyone know were I can get a copy or have one they could have copied for me? I'll be glad to pay for it as long as it's reasonable. Is there some other equivalent book along the same lines? (I already have "Machine Shop Practice" by Moltrecht). Thx, PJ ------ Paul Jones, Motorola MCG paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com 1101 E. University Ave. Voice: (217) 384-8529 Urbana, IL 61801, USA FAX: (217) 384-8550 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!noc.near.net!lard.ftp.com!sailing.ftp.com!jay Sat Jan 22 22:10:02 EST 1994 Article: 3397 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!noc.near.net!lard.ftp.com!sailing.ftp.com!jay From: jay@ftp.com (Jay Stryker) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Rotary phase converters Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 18:07:58 Organization: FTP Software, North Andover, Massachusetts Lines: 41 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <940121180759@sailing.ftp.com> References: Reply-To: jay@ftp.com NNTP-Posting-Host: sailing.ftp.com Keywords: Three Phase, Single Phase NNTP-Software: PC/TCP NNTP In article MARTIN@cubic.com (Bill W. Martin) writes: >>Hello, >> If anyone has info on using a large 3-phase motor as a phase >>converter, ie 1-phase power to 3-phase power, I have a couple of questions. >>First, how much power is consumed at idle load condition, relative to the >>size of the motor being run? *************************************** I have seen ordinary three phase motors used in this way...you can wrap a rope around the shaft, give a strong pull, and then switch on 1 phase power. Once running, it will draw a few amps, but as long as there is no load on the shaft, it "idles". When you place three phase motors on the output (recall that you have to use a three phase contactor) the current will rise. How much...hmmm...maybe twice or more? Anyone know? I have a commercial single to three phase converter....I have measured the three phase outputs for balance but never measured the input current change. I run mine from a 70 Amp circuit into the workshop; when I start the converter the house light level drops about the same as an appliance starting. When I start the 7 hp turret lathe motor it dims the house lights for about one second as it comes up to speed. *************************************** >>Second, can a dual-voltage 3-phase motor be configured as a kind of " >>rotating transformer" to step up 220V to 440V ? *************************************** This sounds feasible if the windings are electrically separate (eg. the 220 is not a mid-tap on the 440). Heating, arc-over and insulation limits may be involved here. If you are using a "bigger" three phase, say 7 horse, motor, for this, and the driven motors are 2 or 3 horse, the heating may not be a problem. Three phase motors are rugged beasties, but you want balanced power in all three feeds to prevent overheating/meltdown. Cautions: high voltages, high currents, high shaft torques, possible open or short circuits, possible insulation fires, possible contactor problems, etc.....this can be an expensive laboratory experiment....!!!! Check with your local expert(tm)! **************************************** >>I recall seeing some discussion on the general topic of 1->3 phase >>conversion with a 3-phase motor, but no mention of either of my questions. >> Thanks in advance for any info you may have! >> >>Bill Martin From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 Sun Jan 23 12:12:24 EST 1994 Article: 3398 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 From: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Capacitor Run Motors Question... Date: 23 Jan 1994 03:05:38 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 12 Message-ID: <2hspi2$84@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) NNTP-Posting-Host: eeyore.ins.cwru.edu I know that the Cap. shifts the phase on Cap. start motors, What exactly does it do on Cap. run motors? How importent is the value? -- "Onward through the fog" - Power-Hitter bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu mburlage@heartland.bradley.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Sun Jan 23 12:12:25 EST 1994 Article: 3399 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Message-ID: <=1y377m@dixie.com> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 05:33:52 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com> <1994Jan16.080240.186@flying-disk.com> <1994Jan21.120339.188@flying-disk.com> Lines: 48 frisbie@flying-disk.com writes: >Since motor oil is not suitable, what kind would work best? I don't really know much about oil blackening. Assuming you want a carbon/varnish film (only think I can imagine at the temperatures involved) maybe a cooking oil would work? At least it turns skillets black :-) >1) The darkest, blackest color. >2) The most durable coating. Well there's little doubt that Parkerizing would be the most durable. Neither blueing nor black oxide are very thick, after all. >I just got the Brownell's catalog and see that they have >a variety of blueing kits. I don't want a blue color, >so I am a bit confused by references to "blueing". Could >you comment on this a bit? I guess that gun fans all >know this sort of thing, but I don't. The blue is an oxide coating just like when steel turns blue as it is heated. The difference is the chemical process controls the oxide consistency much better than mere heating. And just as heated steel will go through blue to black, so will hot and nitrate blueing. Hot blueing involves immersing the piece in a hot water solution of chemicals. Brownell sells an excellent chemical kit. FWIW, I had a fire a few years ago and many of my tools were severely corroded by the smoke residue. I bead blasted those which could be functionally salvaged and then nitro blued them to an almost black color. This has been VERY durable even on such frequent use tools as pliars. >In your opinion, what is the best book on the subject? I don't know of a best book because I've never had one. I do know books on gun finishing are available from advertisers in gun magazines. I learned by moonlighting in a friend's gunsmith shop and by reading the Brownell instructions. 73 John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com "Would you fire on US Citizens while in the process of confiscating their guns?" A question on a survey given to members of the U.S. counterterrorist unit Navy SEAL Team Six by their commanders last September. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Sun Jan 23 12:12:26 EST 1994 Article: 3400 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 05:41:28 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <9jx309j@dixie.com> <94022.135606MJE100G@ODUVM.BITNET> Lines: 42 writes: > Smelting Whole Batteries- Hmm let's see how many potential problems >with this approach. > 1) Draining acid into groundwater Why do you environuts always assume that anything that hits the surface of the ground instantly pops through 60 ft (in my area) to reach the groundwater? And have you ever noticed that when you pour acid on the ground it bubbles? That's a neutralization reaction with the limestone and other goodies in the soil. Voila! No acid. > 2) Lot's of nasty sulfur fumes yep. Smells Goooood. > 3) Most probably lots and lots of lead fumes Unless you can trace the synthesys of some sort of organolead (think we could make tetraethyl lead) compounds, nope. There may be some lead oxide aerosol. THAT is why you don't sniff the chimney. > I'm all for DIY projects, but this just sounds like a REAL bad idea. I >would put this past being politcally incorrect. I feel this would be very >environmentally unsound, pretty dangerous without the right sort of protective >gear and almost definitely illegal (both water and air pollution) in most >places. Remember, old batteries are categorized as hazardous wastes for >good reasons. So's motor oil. Nothing said this crap has to make sense. >I hate to flame anyones response, but this just seems to be a bad idea. Then don't do it. But it sure works for me. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com "Would you fire on US Citizens while in the process of confiscating their guns?" A question on a survey given to members of the U.S. counterterrorist unit Navy SEAL Team Six by their commanders last September. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Sun Jan 23 12:12:26 EST 1994 Article: 3401 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Rotary phase converters Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 08:21:32 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. Keywords: Three Phase, Single Phase Distribution: usa References: <940121180759@sailing.ftp.com> Lines: 62 jay@ftp.com (Jay Stryker) writes: >In article MARTIN@cubic.com (Bill W. Martin) writes: >>>Hello, >>> If anyone has info on using a large 3-phase motor as a phase >>>converter, ie 1-phase power to 3-phase power, I have a couple of questions. >>>First, how much power is consumed at idle load condition, relative to the >>>size of the motor being run? >*************************************** >I have seen ordinary three phase motors used in this way...you can wrap a >rope around the shaft, give a strong pull, and then switch on 1 phase power. >Once running, it will draw a few amps, but as long as there is no load on >the shaft, it "idles". When you place three phase motors on the output >(recall that you have to use a three phase contactor) the current will rise. Yes, this works well. and if you connect a capacitor in series with another winding hooked in parallel with the first, the motor will start itself and will draw much less idling current. For 3P motors in the 5 hp range, I'd start out with about 20 uF at the appropriate voltage. If you're interested in best efficiency, tune the capacitor by varying it to get the least idling current. >How much...hmmm...maybe twice or more? Anyone know? I have a commercial >single to three phase converter....I have measured the three phase outputs >for balance but never measured the input current change. Amazing how power factor works, eh :-) >*************************************** >>>Second, can a dual-voltage 3-phase motor be configured as a kind of " >>>rotating transformer" to step up 220V to 440V ? >*************************************** >This sounds feasible if the windings are electrically separate (eg. the >220 is not a mid-tap on the 440). Heating, arc-over and insulation limits >may be involved here. This works fine as long as the FLA limitation of the converter is respected. For dual voltage motors, simply connect the windings in series for the higher voltage and then apply the incoming power to between one end and the junction of the series windings. Take the output power from the ends of each phase. Another little known fact is that an induction motor driven by another prime mover (engine, etc) is a fine generator. It generates lots of leading VARs so it counteracts the low powerfactor of the motors and the "converter." Simply connect the 3P converter motor to the prime mover, bring the rotor speed up to nameplate (1800, 3600, etc) and apply excitation as before. Then crank the throttle open on the prime mover and apply the 3P load. Within the current rating of the converter, the rotor will remain locked roughly in sync with the line and no govenor is needed. Watch the phase current to keep it within the FLA rating of the converter. Particularly watch the phase connected to the line; "excess" power is fed back out the power line. john -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com "Would you fire on US Citizens while in the process of confiscating their guns?" A question on a survey given to members of the U.S. counterterrorist unit Navy SEAL Team Six by their commanders last September. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!paladin.american.edu!nic.hookup.net!batcomputer!cornell!brown Sun Jan 23 15:49:37 EST 1994 Article: 3402 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!paladin.american.edu!nic.hookup.net!batcomputer!cornell!brown From: brown@cs.cornell.edu (Geoffrey Brown) Subject: Rivett Lathe Message-ID: <1994Jan23.202610.29832@cs.cornell.edu> Organization: Electrical Engineering, Cornell University, Ithaca NY Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 20:26:10 GMT Lines: 14 I have an early Rivett Lathe which I would like to learn more about. The machine dates to around 1900. It has an 8" swing and 22" between centers. It looks like a giant watchmakers lathe except that it has a lead screw and power feeds. An article in American Machinist -- March 7, 1895 has a description of the (prototype) of the lathe built by Faneuil Watch company and designed by Edward Rivett. I believe mine is somewhat later as it lists the manufacturer as Rivett Lathe co. I have no documentation on the lathe. It is pretty complete (one collett is broken), but it seems there were attachments available to allow the compound to be used for milling among other things. I would love to find out more about the attachments that were available. Geoffrey Brown From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!waikato!comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix.gen.nz!clear Mon Jan 24 23:29:35 EST 1994 Article: 3403 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!waikato!comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix.gen.nz!clear From: clear@actrix.gen.nz (Charlie Lear) Subject: Re: Toolaholic needs help in crisis Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 23:56:57 GMT Message-ID: References: Lines: 20 In article , Greg Lewis wrote: > How do you deal with it when your emotional self wants a tool and your > rational self says you don't need it? I usually spend fifteen seconds looking at my bank statements. Cures me real quick, every time! > Please tell me I don't need this thing! You don't need it. What you can't do on the vertical mill you can do on the lathe. Use a milling cutter on an arbor between centres and bolt the work to the cross slide. Instant horizontal mill. My fee for the above advice? A nice 9"-12" lathe... 8-) -- Charlie "The Bear" Lear clear@actrix.gen.nz Ph/Fax +64 4 564-5307 Shareware Distribution NZ PO Box 42000, Wellington, New Zealand NZ Agents for Walnut Creek and Prime Time Freeware CD-ROM DoD #221 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!usenet.ccur.com!john Mon Jan 24 23:29:37 EST 1994 Article: 3404 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!usenet.ccur.com!john From: john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) Subject: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Message-ID: Sender: usenet@westford.ccur.com (UNIX News) Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford, MA Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 23:45:13 GMT Lines: 8 Looking at the cost of toolpost grinders made me wonder if there might be an el-cheapo alternative for occasional use. Maybe a dremel mounted in/on the post? Any guess if standard stones would work? I've seen setups similar to what 'looks' like a dremel tool used to grind interior tapers. I assume any slop in the bearings would factor out if the stone was fed slow enough... Any thoughts/suggestions welcome. -john From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!noc.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!eklunn Mon Jan 24 23:29:37 EST 1994 Article: 3405 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!noc.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!eklunn From: eklunn@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Neil Holger Eklund) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: SS welding Date: 24 Jan 1994 00:53:30 GMT Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY, USA Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2hv66a$nsj@usenet.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aix02.ecs.rpi.edu I may be opening a brewpub in the next year or so, and am wondering if welding stainless steel is a skill that I could learn to do reasonably well in a reasonable amount of time (e.g., 80 hours) or should I forget about it and hire it out. If I should hire it out, what kind of credintials should I look for, and how much does it cost (per hour?). Thanks in advance!!! -Neil eklunn@rpi.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ag202 Mon Jan 24 23:29:38 EST 1994 Article: 3406 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ag202 From: ag202@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Claude Lewis) Subject: *HELP* 'Smart & Brown' lathe Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca Reply-To: ag202@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Claude Lewis) Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 01:47:25 GMT Lines: 19 Have 'Smart & Brown' lathe (age/model unknown), approximately 9 in (dia) swing by 20 in cwenter to center. Need TAILSTOCK, GEARSET and MANUAL. Please e-mail me if you can help: ag202@freenet.carleton.ca Thank you! -- Claude =:) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!rgh_support4p1.wwc.edu!hawkjo Mon Jan 24 23:29:39 EST 1994 Article: 3407 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!caen!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!rgh_support4p1.wwc.edu!hawkjo From: hawkjo@saturn.wwc.edu (JON A HAWKINS) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Forge hand-crank blower value? Date: 24 Jan 1994 03:49:13 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 10 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: rgh_support4p1.wwc.edu At an auction today, my friend and I purchased an old forge that had a bunch of neat tools such as swages, fullers, chisels, etc. It also came with this hand-crank blower. It's made by Champion Blower and Forge Co., and "No. 400" was on it. The most recent patent date on it was April 15, 1902, for whatever that's worth. We were wondering what such a blower is worth today. It seems to be in reasonable condition, and I just want to know how tightly I should hang onto it. Thanks. Jon Hawkins hawkjo@wwc.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers Mon Jan 24 23:29:40 EST 1994 Article: 3408 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers From: handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (Howard Anders) Subject: Re: SS welding Message-ID: <1994Jan24.054512.5486@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia References: <2hv66a$nsj@usenet.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 05:45:12 GMT Lines: 8 I'm sure you could learn to do it in a reasonable period of time, but the problem would be that the equipment you need to do it "properly" is quite expensive, i.e. thousands of dollars, for good quality TIG welding gear. You can do it with a "stick" welder, but on thin material, say #16 or thinner, its harder to get a good result. Of course I'm talking Australian conditions, where any of this sort of equipment is roughly twice the price of the same equipment in the USA. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!destroyer!newncar!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Mon Jan 24 23:29:41 EST 1994 Article: 3409 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!destroyer!newncar!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: FAQ location? Message-ID: <1994Jan23.230014.1237@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 23 Jan 94 23:00:13 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) References: <2hp0aa$t2v@sbctri.sbc.com> Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 29 In article <2hp0aa$t2v@sbctri.sbc.com>, tadams@wedge (Tom. Adams 529-7860) writes: |>The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking doesn't seem to get posted to |>news.answers, which prevents it from being archived. Could |>whoever is maintaining the FAQ please look into this? If it's |>too much trouble, I'll do it. Also if someone could point me |>towards a ftpable copy of the faq I'd appreciate it. A co-worker |>friend needs to find a source for a #1 die. No, it doesn't get posted to news.answers. That's on my stack of things to do someday. First, I want to ensure it's in the "proper" form for an FAQ per the guidelines. Second, last time I checked, news.answers was moderated and my brain-dead news system won't post to a moderated group! But I do intend to get this working someday. Gad, I sound like a software vendor. However, when I do post the FAQ, I include an Expires: header that specifies the end of the current month. Thus, it *should* be on your news system if you go back far enough. On the other hand, I don't believe news systems are required to obey Expires: headers; it is just a request/guideline. Perhaps you can complain to your news system administrator, if the FAQ still isn't around at your site, and get him to obey expiration dates. (some sites ignore it because it occasionally gets abused by twits who post something tasteless and expire it next century). I have loaded the current FAQ (even newer than the one I last posted!) into the metal subdirectory, for anonymous ftp via plains.uwyo.edu. Jim From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news Mon Jan 24 23:29:42 EST 1994 Article: 3410 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!news1.oakland.edu!news From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Date: 24 Jan 1994 12:49:52 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2i0g5g$4p3@oak.oakland.edu> References: <1994Jan21.120339.188@flying-disk.com> Reply-To: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pookie.pass.wayne.edu In article 188@flying-disk.com, frisbie@flying-disk.com writes: >I just got the Brownell's catalog and see that they have >a variety of blueing kits. I don't want a blue color, >so I am a bit confused by references to "blueing". Could >you comment on this a bit? I suggest the Brownell's "Oxpho Blue", as it delivers a nice and extremely durable blue-black. Multiple applications intensify the color. And no special processes are required- you just wipe it on. I've used it on a number of jobs. The cheaper "quick blue" formulas use a system of precipitating copper on the surface. They result in a much lighter blue which rubs off easily. --mike From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Mon Jan 24 23:29:42 EST 1994 Article: 3411 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Toolaholic needs help in crisis Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 13:28:47 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article , clear@actrix.gen.nz (Charlie Lear) wrote: > In article , > Greg Lewis wrote: > > How do you deal with it when your emotional self wants a tool and your > > rational self says you don't need it? > Think what your wife spent on clothes last year. That usually persuades me to find room for it. On the other hand, I do normally like some sort of feeling that it is a bargain (as does she!). I have a Centec 2A horizontal with vertical head. The head is always on, since it's too heavy to shift, but it doesn't foul small cutters in the horizontal spindle. It's really useful for small slitting cutters, Woodruffe cutters and the like, where you can get away with a stub arbor and no overarm. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Mon Jan 24 23:29:43 EST 1994 Article: 3412 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Milling in the Home Workshop Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 13:36:22 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <2hsdqh$b5j@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article <2hsdqh$b5j@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com>, paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Paul Jones) wrote: > In the Sep/Oct 1993 issue of HSM, the part 2 article, "Thoughts on > Selecting Vertical Mills" by Thomas F. Howard lists a book entitled > "Milling in the Home Workshop" by Arnold Throp, published by > Argus House in England. > This is generally available in the UK. Try TEE publishing, Edwards Centre, Regent St., Hinckley, Leicester. They specialize in out-of-print enginnering, live steam, etc. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Mon Jan 24 23:29:44 EST 1994 Article: 3413 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Message-ID: <1427.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 24 Jan 94 07:27:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 60 -> Smelting Whole Batteries- Hmm let's see how many potential problems -> with this approach. -> 1) Draining acid into groundwater Eh? It'd be silly to dump it on the ground. It's useful for lots of stuff. If you don't have a use for it, most high school chem labs are grateful to get it. -> 2) Lot's of nasty sulfur fumes Last I heard sulfur wasn't an Enviro-Nazi issue. If it is, they need to start pouring concrete in Yellowstone Park. -> 3) Most probably lots and lots of lead fumes Lead doesn't outgass much at reasonable temperatures. Most people cast bullets and sinkers indoors. Of course, these are seriously weird people, who enjoy SHOOTING things, and torturing innocent fish on the end of barbed hooks, but we all have our little faults, and what's a little lead between friends? -> I'm all for DIY projects, but this just sounds like a REAL bad idea. -> I would put this past being politcally incorrect. I feel this would -> be very environmentally unsound, pretty dangerous without the right -> sort of protective gear and almost definitely illegal (both water and -> air pollution) in most places. Remember, old batteries are -> categorized as hazardous wastes for good reasons. Some day you'll discover the horrible truth about the Tooth Fairy. -> I just don't imagine one will save all that much $$. I'll let you in on another secret. This newsgroup is full of people who own thousands of dollars worth of equipment. Lots of them will spend an hour or more using this equipment to make something they could buy at the hardware store for a dollar. Now, why would they do that, instead of donating that money to clean up the Environment? If you have to ask, you'll never understand. Now, the lead you might get out of old batteries might not be particularly good stuff - there are dozens of alloys used, depending on the battery maker's ideas - but that's a different problem. Now, why don't you get back down on your belly and crawl out of here, and go bother the people on sci.environment or alt.stupid or some place? ======================================================================= can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation... ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT (Nazareth) XJ900 TURBO at 15psi DoD# 978 xKotFAQ ======================================================================= From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Mon Jan 24 23:29:44 EST 1994 Article: 3414 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Message-ID: <1428.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 24 Jan 94 07:44:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 14 -> Looking at the cost of toolpost grinders made me wonder if there -> might be an el-cheapo alternative for occasional use. Maybe a dremel -> mounted in/on the post? You could probably get a Dremel to work with a lot of patience, but a much better way would be to use a Foredom style ball-bearing handpiece mounted in the toolpost, then use the flex cable to the Dremel or Foredom motor. You might also want to rig up an attachment for your shop vac or household vac to hold the hose near your work. The grit will still go everywhere, but there'll be less of it. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Mon Jan 24 23:29:45 EST 1994 Article: 3415 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: GREENMANA@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: lathe drive belt Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 20:54:55 EST Organization: Delphi Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <940121.75295.GREENMANA@delphi.com> References: <99@landau.win.net> <1994Jan10.094531.180@flying-disk.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com Hi. I have a 1950 11" Logan lathe and have also used the services mentioned by Alan Fisbie (RT-11 Forever!). Anyway, there's a company here in Worcester Ma that sells a very thin belt designed for grinders that works very well. The place is Called Hudson Belt, since 1854, (508)756-0090 (and I have no connection with this company other than being a very satisfied customer.) The belts are inexpensive. They are endless so you do have to remove the spindle. That is generally not a big deal, you just have to be careful. And, by the way, I've found that a really fine v-belt for the motor to countershaft spindle is *really* important in reducing vibration. Please forgive the crappy typing. I;'m not used to SET TT NOCONSOLE mode!! Regards, Charlie Greenman From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!noc.near.net!mv!chillon!neidorff Mon Jan 24 23:29:46 EST 1994 Article: 3416 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.crafts.misc Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!noc.near.net!mv!chillon!neidorff From: neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff) Subject: Polishing old glass? Message-ID: <1994Jan24.142053.13544@uicc.com> Followup-To: poster Originator: neidorff@makore.uicc.com Sender: news@uicc.com (USENET News System) Organization: Unitrode Integrated Circuits Corp., Merrimack, NH Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 14:20:53 GMT Lines: 21 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3416 rec.crafts.misc:2889 I have an old piece (1940?) with a 10" diameter thick glass window that has gotten cloudy and ugly with age. I assume that the problem is minute surface scratches. I tried all kinds of glass cleaners and nothing seems to take it out. It might be in the glass itself, but I doubt it. Can anyone recommend a glass polish which might work? Perhaps a lens polish or mirror polish, but something which works on glass? I can use a pad in a drill or a buffing wheel on a grinder if that is the best approach. As this is a precious oldie, I want as little risk as possible. I assume that replacing this glass window will be difficult, as it requires finding a perfect replacement piece AND installing it right. Thanks for any advice at all. -- Bob Neidorff; Unitrode I. C. Corp. | Internet: neidorff@uicc.com 7 Continental Blvd. | Voice : (US) 603-424-2410 Merrimack, NH 03054-0399 USA | FAX : (US) 603-424-3460 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!uncvm1.oit.unc.edu!UNCDWC Mon Jan 24 23:29:47 EST 1994 Article: 3417 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!uncvm1.oit.unc.edu!UNCDWC From: UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu (Doug Cutler) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Wanted phone numbers. Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 11:10:15 EST Organization: University of North Carolina OIT-CS Lines: 11 Message-ID: <16F489D17.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: uncvm1.oit.unc.edu I know that these phone number are in the FAQ but our news-server didn't keep it long enough. I would like the phone number for Blue Ridge Machinery, think that is the right name and subscription info for HSM. Thanks .... Doug. Cutler Office of Information Technology, VM Systems Programmer University of North Carolina. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Mon Jan 24 23:29:48 EST 1994 Article: 3418 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: Toolaholic needs help in crisis Organization: AT&T Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 15:59:06 GMT Message-ID: References: Lines: 18 >From article , by gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis): > > How do you deal with it when your emotional self wants a tool and your > rational self says you don't need it? There is an Atlas horizontal > mill for sale down the road. If it was a great buy, I'd have no > problem... I'd just buy it. But the price is just about what it is > worth, so it's nothing to get stirred up over. But my tool-a-holic > emotional self wants this mill, primarily because I don't already have Asking this group of toolaholics about how to deal with your addiction seems a bit like asking about your alcoholism problem at the local tavern. Perhaps we need a toolaholics anonymous. On second thought I probably wouldn't join, since I am having fun with my addiction so far. What is it that they say about alcohol? You need to hit bottom before you seek help. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Mon Jan 24 23:29:48 EST 1994 Article: 3419 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Message-ID: <1994Jan24.081209.189@flying-disk.com> Date: 24 Jan 94 08:12:09 PST References: <1428.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Distribution: world Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 33 In article <1428.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us>, dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes: > > -> Looking at the cost of toolpost grinders made me wonder if there > -> might be an el-cheapo alternative for occasional use. Maybe a dremel > -> mounted in/on the post? > > You could probably get a Dremel to work with a lot of patience, but > a much better way would be to use a Foredom style ball-bearing handpiece > mounted in the toolpost, then use the flex cable to the Dremel or > Foredom motor. The Foredom was an easy way to go for me. The Foredom 30H and 44H handpieces (the most common) are 1" in diameter, just right to fit in a collet. My lathe already had a KDK quick-change toolholder, so I simply bought a KDK 119 Collet Holder. Presto, instant toolpost grinder! By the way, KDK will sell cosmetic "seconds" at their factory at a discount. Just call in advance to see if any are available. I seem to recall that I got 15-20% off a 119 with a few "oops" on it. A side-effect is that the KDK 119 is really great for holding odd-sized boring bars, etc. You can also use the Foredom for drilling small holes around a circle, such as on model steam engine cylinder heads. If you set up a pawl to hold the lathe spindle bull gear, you can index to most of the popular numbers. My 72-tooth bull gear gives me 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 12, 18, 24, 36 and 72. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!eng.ufl.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!sab Mon Jan 24 23:29:49 EST 1994 Article: 3420 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!eng.ufl.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!sab From: sab@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Forge hand-crank blower value? Message-ID: <1994Jan24.110014.3559@tower> Date: 24 Jan 94 11:00:14 -0500 References: Lines: 16 ]In article , hawkjo@saturn.wwc.edu (JON A HAWKINS) writes: > At an auction today, my friend and I purchased an old forge that had a bunch > of neat tools such as swages, fullers, chisels, etc. It also came with this > hand-crank blower. It's made by Champion Blower and Forge Co., and "No. > 400" was on it. The most recent patent date on it was April 15, 1902, for > whatever that's worth. We were wondering what such a blower is worth > today. It seems to be in reasonable condition, and I just want to know how > tightly I should hang onto it. Thanks. > > Jon Hawkins > hawkjo@wwc.edu If in good condition, i.e., smooth function, no grinding, clanking, etc. with a base and tripod, you can get $75 - $125 at most Florida blacksmith's meetings (of course, it all depends on just how much the potential customer really *wants* the blower...) Steve Bloom (IronFlower Forge) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Mon Jan 24 23:29:50 EST 1994 Article: 3421 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 24 Jan 1994 17:07:41 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <1428.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article <1428.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us>, dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) wrote: > > > -> Looking at the cost of toolpost grinders made me wonder if there > -> might be an el-cheapo alternative for occasional use. Maybe a dremel > -> mounted in/on the post? > They're actually not that hard to make. You need to machine a ball-bearing arbor, a sliding motor mount, and a clamp that fits into the slots in your compound. The motor drives the wheel by a v-belt. Very simple, and not much different from store-bought. Somebody is really making hay out of straw. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!sinnett-104-486.NASH.ORST.EDU!sinnettc Mon Jan 24 23:29:50 EST 1994 Article: 3422 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!sinnett-104-486.NASH.ORST.EDU!sinnettc From: sinnettc@ccmail.orst.edu (DRAGON!) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.crafts.misc Subject: Re: Polishing old glass? Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 17:53:02 GMT Organization: F & W and Micro, Oregon State University Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <1994Jan24.142053.13544@uicc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sinnett-104-486.nash.orst.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3422 rec.crafts.misc:2893 In article <1994Jan24.142053.13544@uicc.com> neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff) writes: >From: neidorff@uicc.com (Bob Neidorff) >Subject: Polishing old glass? >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 14:20:53 GMT >Can anyone recommend a glass polish which might work? Perhaps a >lens polish or mirror polish, but something which works on glass? >I can use a pad in a drill or a buffing wheel on a grinder if that >is the best approach. I see you're on the East Coast, so there's hope you'll be able to find the stuff I'm going to recommend. . . Several years ago I saw an article in Popular Mechanics or something about a polishing compound for glass that was supposed to remove the pitting from acid rain on your windshield. I don't know where you'd find it if not in an automotive parts store. Might be worth a shot though, and who knows, maybe you can use it on your car too! Good luck! Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- DRAGON! /\_\/_/\ | 0\/0 | | -- | \| |/ | | 0 ()() o WHAT THE DRAGON! SAYS IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE \ * OPINIONS OF WHERE THE DRAGON! WORKS! SO THERE! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm Mon Jan 24 23:29:51 EST 1994 Article: 3423 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!rogerm From: rogerm@fc.hp.com (Roger Mitchell) Subject: Re: Rivett Lathe Sender: news@fc.hp.com (news daemon) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 18:16:58 GMT References: <1994Jan23.202610.29832@cs.cornell.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: ux0046.fc.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.4] Lines: 11 A friend of mine has a Rivett lathe almost the same as the one you have. It was made during World War II for the US Navy. The Rivett Lathe and Grinder Company was located in Boston, Massachusetts. They went out of business about 10 years ago. It is unlikely that you can get parts for them any more. I know that in my friend, Alex's, case we ended up having to make new parts for the feed clutch and a new gear for the cross-feed. Roger Mitchell President and Master Mechanic Fort Collins Municipal Railway From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen Mon Jan 24 23:29:52 EST 1994 Article: 3424 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: SS welding In-Reply-To: eklunn@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu's message of 24 Jan 1994 00: 53:30 GMT Message-ID: Sender: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California References: <2hv66a$nsj@usenet.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 19:22:01 GMT Lines: 31 >>>>> "Neil" == Neil Holger Eklund writes: Neil> I may be opening a brewpub in the next year or so, and am Neil> wondering if welding stainless steel is a skill that I could Neil> learn to do reasonably well in a reasonable amount of time Neil> (e.g., 80 hours) or should I forget about it and hire it out. I began with good gas welding skill, spent $700 on a *good* MIG welder (Hobart Handler 120) and with about 20 minutes of welding on steel (needed to make some support cradles for 15 gal SS keg boilers) I was ready to tackle SS. I went down to the local recyclers and picked up some 1/16" thick channel stock and some 1/2" water pipe, both in 304 stainless. Loaded up the MIG with 316 SS .035" wire and went for it. Did tolerably well right away. Welding 3/16" stock to 1/16" stock is always a little more tricky than welding all the same thickness, but no more so in SS than any other metal. Next step was to weld the real nipples in the keg. worked like a charm. Just be sure to cool the SS welds immediately after welding. SS left at high temps for very long will get brittle, brittle enough to shatter with a hammer blow. Also, you need to use one SS grade higher wire than you are welding (weld 304 with 316 wire). With a little experience, the extent of my SS welding needs were easily met. You may have extra concerns with a much larger application, but having no experience in large scale sanitary welding, I cannot address this. -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!pirates!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!vanbc.wimsey.com!not-for-mail Mon Jan 24 23:29:52 EST 1994 Article: 3425 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!pirates!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!vanbc.wimsey.com!not-for-mail From: mfraser@vanbc.wimsey.com (Mark Fraser) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Wanted phone numbers. Date: 24 Jan 1994 09:48:17 -0800 Organization: Wimsey Information Services Lines: 7 Message-ID: <2i11l1$odq@vanbc.wimsey.com> References: <16F489D17.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> HSM is published by Cottage Publishing I think, and their phone is 800 447 7367 At least they accepted my subscription a few weeks ago..... / Mark From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Mon Jan 24 23:29:53 EST 1994 Article: 3426 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Date: 24 Jan 1994 20:21:54 GMT Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 18 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2i1al2$1gc@tymix.Tymnet.COM> References: <=1y377m@dixie.com> Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com There are two common forms of iron oxide -- ferric and ferrous (I just can't remember which is which...one is black and hard, the other is red and softer). In thin layers, the black form looks blue (in even thinner layers, you get the "colors" used in tempering). I believe that "oil blackening" coats the iron with oil and then heats it in an enclosed container...I think that this makes a "reducing" environment, and the black form is produced. The oil also seeps into the oxide coating and eventually "cracks", forming a "tar" which helps seal the oxide and also makes it darker (like a wet highway). THis finish is commonly used on clock springs, etc. The "bluing" *compounds* available produce the same color, without the hassle of trying to get the heat evenly distributed. Any chemists out there who could verify this? JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Mon Jan 24 23:29:54 EST 1994 Article: 3427 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Message-ID: <1994Jan24.203243.28456@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 20:32:43 GMT Lines: 19 >> I'm all for DIY projects, but this just sounds like a REAL bad idea. >> I would put this past being politcally incorrect. I feel this would >> be very environmentally unsound, pretty dangerous without the right >> sort of protective gear and almost definitely illegal (both water and >> air pollution) in most places. Remember, old batteries are >> categorized as hazardous wastes for good reasons. Ah yes, and for a small fee, the government can dispose of it nicely and make it all better. (And people criticised the church for selling indulgences in the 1500's ???) -Eric "hates the term politically-correct" P. -- -- Governments that don't trust honest people with weapons, deserve no trust. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news Mon Jan 24 23:29:55 EST 1994 Article: 3428 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel!rat!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Message-ID: Sender: news@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno References: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 20:51:28 GMT Lines: 23 In article john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) writes: >Looking at the cost of toolpost grinders made me wonder if there might be an >el-cheapo alternative for occasional use. Maybe a dremel mounted in/on the >post? Any guess if standard stones would work? I've seen setups similar to >what 'looks' like a dremel tool used to grind interior tapers. I assume any >slop in the bearings would factor out if the stone was fed slow enough... >Any thoughts/suggestions welcome. > >-john I seem to recall an ad in Home Shop Machinist for a kit. Several castings were provided. I cant remember the company... perhaps Metal Lathe Accessories? I tried my Dremel and found the spindle not tight enough... the grinding wheel bounced around too much. Check HSM magazine from about two or three years ago... I think thats when the ad ran. ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!mr.net!msc.edu!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf Mon Jan 24 23:29:56 EST 1994 Article: 3429 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!mr.net!msc.edu!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf From: jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Organization: Control Data Systems Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 21:36:56 GMT Message-ID: References: <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com> <1994Jan16.080240.186@flying-disk.com> <1994Jan21.120339.188@flying-disk.com> <=1y377m@dixie.com> Sender: usenet@cdsmail.cdc.com (News Poster) Lines: 2 Okay, so what exactly is the process in Parkerizing and how would one go about it in a home shop environment? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!promus.com!bmaccion!bmaccion Mon Jan 24 23:29:57 EST 1994 Article: 3430 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!promus.com!bmaccion!bmaccion From: bmaccion@promus.com (Bob Maccione) Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Welder choice for auto welding Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:09:01 Organization: The Promus Companies, Inc. (Memphis, TN) Lines: 16 Distribution: na Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: bmaccion.promus.com X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4169 rec.autos.tech:52169 rec.crafts.metalworking:3430 Hi, I've got a hole in the floor of my 55 Olds and would like to attack the welding of it myself. The substructure is fine. I'd like to buy a welder and am confused as to the best type for this type of application. My criteria are - 120v operation, less than 500 bucks. My applications are mostly joining metal together ( since I also want to do a little leading I have to get a torch, and can use that for some of the cutting ). Sooo, what are the pros and cons between TIG, MIG, etc? I've experimented in the past with a torch and yes even used to own a solid-ox system. I can solder and have studied up enough to take the plunge. Thanks in advance, bob maccione bmaccion@promus.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!dionheinz.uchicago.edu!sweeney Mon Jan 24 23:29:58 EST 1994 Article: 3431 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!dionheinz.uchicago.edu!sweeney From: sweeney@dionheinz.uchicago.edu (Jeff Sweeney) Subject: Metric screws Message-ID: <1994Jan24.220027.373@midway.uchicago.edu> Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System) Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Information Technologies Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 22:00:27 GMT Lines: 5 I'm looking for metric screws, oval head, 3x0.5, 3-5mm long. Does anyone know of a good source? -- Jeff sweeney@dionheinz.uchicago.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!udel!news.sprintlink.net!news.world.net!Steve.Hampson Mon Jan 24 23:29:59 EST 1994 Article: 3432 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!udel!news.sprintlink.net!news.world.net!Steve.Hampson From: steve@bluesky.com (Steve Hampson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Milling in the Home Workshop Date: 24 Jan 1994 23:16:11 GMT Organization: Internetworks, Inc. Lines: 22 Sender: -Not-Authenticated-[8265] Message-ID: <2i1krs$irj@pdx1.world.net> References: <2hsdqh$b5j@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: steve.bluesky.com X-Posted-From: InterNews 1.0@pdx1.world.net. Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name. In article <2hsdqh$b5j@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Paul Jones) writes: > In the Sep/Oct 1993 issue of HSM, the part 2 article, "Thoughts on > Selecting Vertical Mills" by Thomas F. Howard lists a book entitled > "Milling in the Home Workshop" by Arnold Throp, published by > Argus House in England. > > They informed me that the book has been out of print for some time. > The giant Big 10 University library mere blocks from my house > doesn't even have a copy. Does anyone know were I can get a copy > or have one they could have copied for me? I'll be glad to pay for it > as long as it's reasonable. > > Is there some other equivalent book along the same lines? > (I already have "Machine Shop Practice" by Moltrecht). I believe this is the book: "Vertical Milling in the Home Workshop" by Arnold Throp, book #2 in the Workshop Practice Series from Argus. It is listed in the current Centaur Forge catalog, number BK563, for $11.75. Their phone number is 1-800-666-9175. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!sorlin Mon Jan 24 23:29:59 EST 1994 Article: 3433 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!sorlin From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Date: 24 Jan 1994 23:13:09 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 61 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2i1km5$i45@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4171 rec.autos.tech:52179 rec.crafts.metalworking:3433 In article , Bob Maccione wrote: >Hi, > > I've got a hole in the floor of my 55 Olds and would like to attack the >welding of it myself. The substructure is fine. I'd like to buy a welder >and am confused as to the best type for this type of application. My >criteria are - 120v operation, less than 500 bucks. My applications are >mostly joining metal together ( since I also want to do a little leading >I have to get a torch, and can use that for some of the cutting ). >Sooo, what are the pros and cons between TIG, MIG, etc? I've >experimented in the past with a torch and yes even used to own a solid-ox >system. I can solder and have studied up enough to take the plunge. Hmm, for a hole in the floor, I would probably recommend using a TIG welder. I'm no expert, but I have used MIG, TIG, and "stick" arc welders, and also oxygen and acetylene. In my experience, a tig welder is great for delicate areas, and small parts. It also can cut metal very easily. You can switch the settings to weld aluminum with a tig, and the welds come out beautiful. With a little practice, you can make professional welds in no time. I'm not sure how thick of metal you can weld with a tig, the thickest I've ever welded was about .25" (steel) Stick arc welders take a lot of practice, and are widely used on construction sites, where welding very thick metal is necessary, and the look of the weld itself isn't all that important. Stick welders throw sparks everywhere, and also little bits of molten steel, which solidify and stick to the object you're welding. they can be ground down, or brushed off. Stick welders are great for deep steel penetration, and for welding LARGE pipes and flat plates. A mig welder is similar to the stick welder in that it throws sparks all over, and leaves the crap, but it operates differently. It's not hard to get used to, but the welder itself is still kind of "clumsy" and you have to be careful if working on delicate objects; however, I prefer this over a stick arc welder. An oxygen and acetylene welding outfit is the choice of many do it yourselfers, as well as body shops -which weld thinner material (body panels, etc.) This outfit is probably the hardest to become an expert with, but you can probably work some of the best "miracles" with it if you become an expert. I usually group this one with the tig welder, in that the welds can come out looking professional, and it is handy with more delicate things. You really gotta watch out though, because it is very easy to warp the object you're working on with this, if you're not careful. I'm no expert, these are just my opinions. Hope some of this helps in your decision. Shop around! steve From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab396 Mon Jan 24 23:30:00 EST 1994 Article: 3434 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab396 From: ab396@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Marcel Lemay) Subject: lead-zinc-antimony ratio ??? Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 22:52:55 GMT Lines: 19 Does anyone know the ratio of lead, zinc and antymony in tire weights. I typecast metal types for letterpress printing, and the type metal has the same three aloys, and is getting difficult to find, also very expensive. An aproximate guess would be appreciated, also, how does one adjust that ratio? Can you just add one of the metal to the pot along with some flux?[A e-mail welcomed. Thanks. -- ##=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=## # Lemay Manufacturing Fax (819) 986-1544 # # Compuserve 73150,2563 Internet ab396@freenet.carleton.ca # ##=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=## From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user Mon Jan 24 23:30:01 EST 1994 Article: 3435 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bcars267!NewsWatcher!user From: wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) Subject: Re: Need sources for small drive parts Message-ID: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Sender: news@bnr.ca (usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: 47.220.4.70 Organization: Bell Northern Research References: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 23:09:17 GMT Lines: 15 In article , colin@psych.toronto.edu (Colin Hinz) wrote: > > john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) writes: > >I would appreciate pointers to sources for small (under 4") steel/CI/brass > >gears, worms, bronze sleeves, etc.. Mailorder would be fine, as would > >someplace more economical than $mall part$. Apologies if this is a FAQ. > > You might try hobby shops which sell radio controlled cars. These cars have dozens of different sized gears available, not to mention the possible gear ratio combinations. They also sell some pretty high speed bearings for a reasonable price. Bill Webster (WWEBSTER@BNR.CA) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!ncrtimes!stpaul.ncr.com!dale.eason Mon Jan 24 23:30:02 EST 1994 Article: 3436 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!ncrtimes!stpaul.ncr.com!dale.eason From: dale.eason@stpaul.ncr.com (Dale Eason) Subject: Re: Toolaholic needs help in crisis Message-ID: Lines: 9 Sender: news@NCRTimes.stpaul.ncr.com Organization: NCR network products division References: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 22:03:18 GMT In article gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: >Please tell me I don't need this thing! Stop the torture. Just tell me where it is and how much. Then I will buy it and put you out of your misery. Dale dale.eason@.stpaul.ncr.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hplextra!hpcss01!markw Mon Jan 24 23:30:03 EST 1994 Article: 3437 of rec.crafts.metalworking From: markw@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Mark Williams) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 23:43:44 GMT Subject: Re: Rotary phase converters Message-ID: <74160005@hpcss01.cup.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hplextra!hpcss01!markw Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking References: Lines: 17 Yes, 3 phase motors can serve as rotary phase converters, wiht reduced power from the target motor. You basically run the 3 phase motor off 220, on two of the phases, and the spinning motor will generate a third phase. This is a hack, since two of the phases are the 220 volt line (180 instead of 120 degrees out of phase) and the third phase will be of lower voltage (160 v) and between the other phases. You also need a means to start the 3 phase motor/generator, either mechanical or electrical. Either another motor and cluch or a motor starting capacitor to the third leg will spin it up, then should be disconnected. Woodworkers sometimes use this scheme to run bargain 3-phase saws, jointers, etc. See writeups in "Fine Woodworking on Making and Modifying Machines", available from Taunton Press. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Mon Jan 24 23:30:04 EST 1994 Article: 3438 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!mallard.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Wanted phone numbers. Message-ID: <1994Jan24.165454.1252@roper.uwyo.edu> From: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) Date: 24 Jan 94 16:54:53 MST Reply-To: jimkirk@uwyo.edu (James Kirkpatrick) References: <16F489D17.UNCDWC@uncvm1.oit.unc.edu> <2i11l1$odq@vanbc.wimsey.com> Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard.uwyo.edu Lines: 5 Blue Ridge: (800) 872-6500, or (304) 562-3538 in WV. HSM was previously posted. JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!EPLUS17 Mon Jan 24 23:30:05 EST 1994 Article: 3439 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!EPLUS17 From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: SS welding Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 19:59:30 CST Organization: C.C.S.O. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <16F481192A.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <2hv66a$nsj@usenet.rpi.edu> <1994Jan24.054512.5486@trl.oz.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: vmd.cso.uiuc.edu In article <1994Jan24.054512.5486@trl.oz.au> handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (Howard Anders) writes: >I'm sure you could learn to do it in a reasonable period of time, but the >problem would be that the equipment you need to do it "properly" is quite >expensive, i.e. thousands of dollars, for good quality TIG welding gear. >You can do it with a "stick" welder, but on thin material, say #16 or thinner, >its harder to get a good result. Of course I'm talking Australian >conditions, where any of this sort of equipment is roughly twice the price >of the same equipment in the USA. > In the USA, you can get a 230 Amp welder, Argon tank, regulator, TIG torch and related supplies for $600 to $800. This will allow DC TIG welding and will work fine on stainless (and regular) steel; to handle aluminum, you need to spend a good deal more. ..Richard E+17 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Mon Jan 24 23:30:05 EST 1994 Article: 3440 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Re: Metric screws Message-ID: <1994Jan25.023007.3442@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 02:30:07 GMT Lines: 15 sweeney@dionheinz.uchicago.edu (Jeff Sweeney) writes: >I'm looking for metric screws, oval head, 3x0.5, 3-5mm long. Does >anyone know of a good source? I'm not sure about sizes, but Home Depot seemed to have a good selection of metric screws. -Eric -- -- Governments that don't trust honest people with weapons, deserve no trust. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!bounce-back Mon Jan 24 23:30:06 EST 1994 Article: 3441 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!bounce-back From: tomg@mishima.mn.org (Thomas Greenwalt) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.crafts.misc Subject: 2nd RFD: rec.crafts.jewelry Followup-To: news.groups Date: 24 Jan 1994 22:46:25 -0500 Organization: Alternate Realities Lines: 17 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: References: <2eihfdINN8pt@rodan.UU.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu news.announce.newgroups:3714 news.groups:69330 rec.crafts.metalworking:3441 rec.crafts.misc:2902 RFD: rec.crafts.jewelry This started out as 'rec.crafts.lapidary', however the first round of discussion seemed to feel that 'rec.crafts.jewelry' would be a better name. I started a mailing list and the general discussions there cover a wide enough range of topics that I agree with that. The Charter: Basically this would be an unmoderated newsgroup for the discussion of gems, gemcutting, jewelry, jewelry making and related topics (workshops, displays, sources for materials, etc.). -- Thomas S. Greenwalt (Tom-Too) tomg@mishima.mn.org 7300 Nicollet Ave. S, Mpls, MN 55423-3121 TomgVR@aol.com *********** Magic isn't something you do, it's something you are. *********** From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john Mon Jan 24 23:30:07 EST 1994 Article: 3442 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john From: john@cirrus.com (John Wishneusky) Subject: Re: Toolaholic needs help in crisis Message-ID: <1994Jan23.023512.5767@cirrus.com> Sender: news@cirrus.com Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc. Fremont, California References: Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 02:35:12 GMT Lines: 35 In article gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: > >How do you deal with it when your emotional self wants a tool and your >rational self says you don't need it? There is an Atlas horizontal >mill for sale down the road. If it was a great buy, I'd have no >problem... I'd just buy it. But the price is just about what it is >worth, so it's nothing to get stirred up over. But my tool-a-holic >emotional self wants this mill, primarily because I don't already have >one. Also, it's cute. And it's in acceptable shape, and includes some >tooling. But my rational self says I already have a Clausing vertical >mill and a milling attachment for my 12" lathe. Most everything you >can do on a horiz. mill can be done on a vert. mill; I'll never use it >enough to warrant the investment and shop space. And it's a bench-top >model with correspondingly small table and movements, which further >limit its usefulness. But I'm waking up at night thinking about it. >Please tell me I don't need this thing! > > >___________________________________________________________________ >Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu >Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism >CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 First, I think you'll find a horizontal mill does nice work that's not as easily done with a vertical mill. Once you've collected a reasonable number of sizes and shapes of arbor mounted side milling cutters and slitting saws you'll be glad you made the modest investment in a nice used horizontal mill. But I'm not sure you want THIS horizontal mill. My friend's got an old Atlas and it's quite flimsy compared to my Benchmaster of nominally the same capacity. Make the rational tool-junky choice and hold out for a good buy on a better mill :-) John From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john Mon Jan 24 23:30:08 EST 1994 Article: 3443 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!cirrus!john From: john@cirrus.com (John Wishneusky) Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Message-ID: <1994Jan24.145022.24282@cirrus.com> Sender: news@cirrus.com Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc. Fremont, California References: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 14:50:22 GMT Lines: 26 In article john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) writes: >Looking at the cost of toolpost grinders made me wonder if there might be an >el-cheapo alternative for occasional use. Maybe a dremel mounted in/on the >post? Any guess if standard stones would work? I've seen setups similar to >what 'looks' like a dremel tool used to grind interior tapers. I assume any >slop in the bearings would factor out if the stone was fed slow enough... >Any thoughts/suggestions welcome. > >-john I've a simple, homemade lathe toolholder system to which it was easy to add an adapter to hold a 1" diameter Foredom handpiece. I did this when I needed to grind new top-jaws I bought for the 3-jaw chuck that was included with the 11" Logan lathe I bought years ago. The replacement jaws were a perfect fit to the lower pieces that engage the scroll, but the amount of slop in the fit of the lower jaw pieces to the channels they ride in allowed the jaws to splay open so much as to render the chuck useless. To cure this, I loaded the jaws in a clamping position and used the Foredom in lieu of a toolpost grinder to grind the jaws true to the lathe axis. I've been extremely happy with the results. The short answer is I had success with a similar setup to what you'd like to try. John From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Tue Jan 25 19:12:50 EST 1994 Article: 3444 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Date: 25 Jan 1994 04:51:17 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2i28g5INNl95@lynx.unm.edu> References: <1428.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: algodones.unm.edu In article <1428.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us>, dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) wrote: > > > -> Looking at the cost of toolpost grinders made me wonder if there > -> might be an el-cheapo alternative for occasional use. Maybe a dremel > -> mounted in/on the post? > I used to work for an old tool and die man who built one by machining an aluminum plate which he welded and machined a mounting bracket for a precision die grinder. EBo -- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Tue Jan 25 19:12:51 EST 1994 Article: 3445 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Metric screws Message-ID: <1994Jan24.211833.190@flying-disk.com> Date: 24 Jan 94 21:18:33 PST References: <1994Jan24.220027.373@midway.uchicago.edu> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 27 In article <1994Jan24.220027.373@midway.uchicago.edu>, sweeney@dionheinz.uchicago.edu (Jeff Sweeney) writes: > I'm looking for metric screws, oval head, 3x0.5, 3-5mm long. Does > anyone know of a good source? Small Parts Inc. 13980 N.W. 58th Court P.O. Box 4650 Miami Lakes, FL 33014-0650 (305) 557-8222 (Voice) (800) 423-9009 (FAX) If you can settle for stainless steel, they have what you want. The shortest they have in that size is 10mm. The part number is Q-MMOX-3-10O. $2.08/10 $4.55/25 $15.62/100 ^ "O" for "Oval" If you would prefer nylon, the part number is Q-MMN-3-6O (6mm long). $1.17/10 $2.05/25 $6.00/100 $25.89/1000 -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Tue Jan 25 19:12:52 EST 1994 Article: 3446 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Rotary phase converters Message-ID: <1994Jan24.212426.191@flying-disk.com> Date: 24 Jan 94 21:24:25 PST References: Distribution: usa Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 24 In article , MARTIN@cubic.com (Bill W. Martin) writes: > If anyone has info on using a large 3-phase motor as a phase > converter, ie 1-phase power to 3-phase power, I have a couple of questions. > First, how much power is consumed at idle load condition, relative to the > size of the motor being run? > Second, can a dual-voltage 3-phase motor be configured as a kind of " > rotating transformer" to step up 220V to 440V ? > I recall seeing some discussion on the general topic of 1->3 phase > conversion with a 3-phase motor, but no mention of either of my questions. There is a good article in the current (Jan/Feb) issue of The Home Show Machinist on page 41. Also, there was an earlier article in the Jan/Feb 1991 issue. Alas, I did not see either of your questions answered in the current article, but there is a lot of other good information. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!newstand.syr.edu!rodan.syr.edu!isr Tue Jan 25 19:12:53 EST 1994 Article: 3447 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!newstand.syr.edu!rodan.syr.edu!isr From: isr@rodan.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account) Subject: Re: ss chainmail/welding query Message-ID: <1994Jan21.171831.9594@newstand.syr.edu> Sender: netnews@newstand.syr.edu (Network News Administrator) Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY References: <2h1q80$h0u@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <1994Jan19.160403.28335@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 17:18:31 GMT Lines: 23 In article <1994Jan19.160403.28335@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mchance@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Michael Chance) writes: >jory bell writes: > >>Specifically, I am seeking to close very small stainless rings >>(approximately 18-22 gauge) and cannot figure out how this is done. >>Ideally, I am looking to weld (not solder) the rings. Eventually, I will >>be working in larger gauges as well. Is welding this type of thing >>at all feasible/possible. > >There's a guy in Arizona that makes chainmail shirts, coifs, etc. for >sale (sorry, I don't have his address immedieately available), and most >of his stuff is welded links. He has several types of wire that he can Looked to me like one of the "Sparkie" type fusion welders These cost about $1800. You can do resistance soldering for about $400 ?? Or a Little Torch for about $70 if you have tanks already. If I was serious about doing LOTS of mail I'd go the fusion welder route, much faster than messing with resistance heating. Or you could make electrode tips for a regular stick welder, and hook it up to a snap-action foot pedal to pulse it fast. (again, resistance welding, not arc welding) Just some ideas... (I wonder how my fleet charger would work.. have to try it!) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!cubic.com!wmata.wd.Cubic.COM!MARTIN Tue Jan 25 19:12:54 EST 1994 Article: 3448 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!cubic.com!wmata.wd.Cubic.COM!MARTIN From: MARTIN@cubic.com (Bill W. Martin) Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Nntp-Posting-Host: wmata.wd.cubic.com References: Sender: news@cubic.com (News) Organization: CARCG Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 17:26:20 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 19 In article john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) writes: >From: john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) >Subject: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? >Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 23:45:13 GMT >Looking at the cost of toolpost grinders made me wonder if there might be an >el-cheapo alternative for occasional use. Maybe a dremel mounted in/on the >post? Any guess if standard stones would work? I've seen setups similar to >what 'looks' like a dremel tool used to grind interior tapers. I assume any >slop in the bearings would factor out if the stone was fed slow enough... >Any thoughts/suggestions welcome. > >-john A small air driven grinder might do what you want, I doubt if a dremel-type tool will give you enough rpm's to do things like interior tapers. On the subject of stones and bearings, etc... Air grinders need very high-speed rated stones, and no, bearing slop wont go away...it shows up as a "wavy" look and rather un-smooth finish on the ground surface. Wich means you need a spindle with GOOD bearings to do decent grinding. bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Tue Jan 25 19:12:55 EST 1994 Article: 3449 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.crafts.misc Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Polishing old glass? Message-ID: <=413tdr@dixie.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 07:35:38 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <1994Jan24.142053.13544@uicc.com> Lines: 29 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3449 rec.crafts.misc:2905 sinnettc@ccmail.orst.edu (DRAGON!) writes: >>Can anyone recommend a glass polish which might work? Perhaps a >>lens polish or mirror polish, but something which works on glass? >>I can use a pad in a drill or a buffing wheel on a grinder if that >>is the best approach. >Several years ago I saw an article in Popular Mechanics or something about a >polishing compound for glass that was supposed to remove the pitting from >acid rain on your windshield. I don't know where you'd find it if not in an >automotive parts store. Might be worth a shot though, and who knows, maybe >you can use it on your car too! No big mystery. Glass polishing is an ordinary everyday task done by glass artists and crystalware repairmen everywhere. The process starts out with jewler's rouge and ends up with cerium oxide. Check the yellow pages under "glass" and/or "crystal repair". You can probably get a crystal repairman to give you a bit of the various abrasives they use. john -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com "Would you fire on US Citizens while in the process of confiscating their guns?" A question on a survey given to members of the U.S. counterterrorist unit Navy SEAL Team Six by their commanders last September. Mail to me may be published at my sole discretion. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!sifon!clouso.crim.ca!hobbit.ireq.hydro.qc.ca!macgm.ireq.hydro.qc.ca!missout Tue Jan 25 19:12:55 EST 1994 Article: 3450 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!sifon!clouso.crim.ca!hobbit.ireq.hydro.qc.ca!macgm.ireq.hydro.qc.ca!missout From: Missout Gilles Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Message-ID: X-Xxmessage-Id: X-Xxdate: Tue, 25 Jan 94 13:53:50 GMT Sender: news@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Netnews Admin) Organization: Hydro Quebec X-Useragent: Version 1.1.3 Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 13:55:25 GMT Lines: 9 In article John De Armond, jgd@dixie.com writes: >This involves simply immersing the chemically cleaned steel object in >molten potassium nitrate (saltpeter). As the temperature is brought up, >the surface turns a straw color which proceeds to blue and then black. >If you stop at the blue stage, the color will be a gorgeous deep royal >blue not achievable any other way. Very expensive custom guns are often >blued this way. do I have to prevent the solution to come inside the barrel or there is no problem? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Tue Jan 25 19:12:56 EST 1994 Article: 3451 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Date: 25 Jan 1994 15:52:49 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2i3f8h$sc@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk If you have the opportunity to look through old UK Model Engineer magazines, you should find references to "Potts spindles" designed specifically for drilling and grinding from the cross-slide, for working on pieces held in the chuck. You might find them in E.T. Westbury or George Thomas books by the same publishers. These are simple devices, basically a spindle running in two good bearings, with a chuck on the front and a pulley on the back, driven by a belt-drive. This is either mounted on a pivoted stand, or something more rigid mounted on a vertical slide (for simple adjustment). This is one of those round-to-it jobs I keep meaning to do... -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david Tue Jan 25 19:12:57 EST 1994 Article: 3452 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david From: david@barney.UUCP (David Hoopes) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Message-ID: <220@barney.UUCP> Date: 25 Jan 94 15:56:19 GMT References: <19940115.115306.630@watson.ibm.com> Organization: Exabyte, Lenexa (Formerly Tallgrass Technologies) Lines: 27 lucas@watson.ibm.com (Bruce Lucas) writes: >"The Home Machinist's Handbook" recommends coating the part with motor >oil and then baking in the oven at about 350 degrees for 10 minutes to >obtain a "hard, durable black finish". >Bruce Lucas I have a knife that I made from a railroad spike. The handle was left looking like the head of a spike. This was my first seccessfull attempt at making a knife. When I was grinding and polishing it, I managed to slip up and remove the black on several large areas of the handle. When I hardened the knife I used motor oil as the quench. After I wiped the oil off with a rag, the polished areas on the handle where back to black (along with everything else). That was more then three years ago. The black has stayed on the handle and has been pretty durable. I have been carried it on all of my camping trips for at least 3 years (and I tend to be pretty hard on a knife). When I looked at it this weekend, there where only 1 or 2 minor scratches in the black. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- David Hoopes Exabyte Corp. david@tallgrass.COM 11100 W 82nd St. Voice: (913) 492-6002 x3323 Lenexa, Ks 66214 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.uakron.edu!VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU!X1FT Tue Jan 25 19:12:57 EST 1994 Article: 3453 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.uakron.edu!VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU!X1FT From: X1FT@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Frank Tompkins) Subject: making a "dinner triangle" Message-ID: <16F49A7A4S85.X1FT@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> Sender: news@news.uakron.edu Organization: The University of Akron Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 16:55:16 GMT Lines: 26 Greetings; I'd like to make (for lack of the correct term) a "dinner triangle". You know, the metal triangular shaped object that a western cook "rings" when a meal is ready. Anyway, I found one in a Denver shop, for $90.00, and I know I can get steel rod for a fraction of this. Three basic sets of questions: 1) Will mild steel be appropriate for this application? (will it "ring" once shaped properly)? What are "dinner triangles" usually made of (iron)? 2) I've been following the blackening steel thread - will this process keep it from rusting (it will be used in an outdoors area)? It actually will be used(rang), by being hit with another piece of the same steel. 3) I expect to be able to bend the rod (3/4 inches dia.) by heating the bend area until red, then bending to 120 degrees in a jig, keeping it on a welding table to maintain two dimensionality. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for your time! - Frank ************************************************************************* Frank Tompkins º Internet: X1FT@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU University of Akron º Akron, Ohio 44325-3501 º "The jury has a right to judge both the law as well as the fact in contraversy" - John Jay, first Chief Justice, U.S. Supreme Court (Georgia vs Brailsford, 1794:4) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!uchinews!milo.mcs.anl.gov!achilles.ctd.anl.gov!shaffer Tue Jan 25 19:12:58 EST 1994 Article: 3454 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!uchinews!milo.mcs.anl.gov!achilles.ctd.anl.gov!shaffer From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Message-ID: Sender: usenet@mcs.anl.gov Reply-To: user@machine.domain Organization: Argonne National Laboratory References: <2hhge5INN3lq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> <94022.135606MJE100G@ODUVM.BITNET> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 17:41:05 GMT Lines: 23 > Smelting Whole Batteries- Hmm let's see how many potential problems >with this approach. > 1) Draining acid into groundwater > 2) Lot's of nasty sulfur fumes > 3) Most probably lots and lots of lead fumes > I'm all for DIY projects, but this just sounds like a REAL bad idea. I >would put this past being politcally incorrect. I feel this would be very >environmentally unsound, pretty dangerous without the right sort of protective >gear and almost definitely illegal (both water and air pollution) in most >places. Remember, old batteries are categorized as hazardous wastes for >good reasons. >I hate to flame anyones response, but this just seems to be a bad idea. > Mike >I just don't imagine one will save all that much $$. You may be right but it is probably good to stash away for that rainy day when they ban ammo and reloading components. This is Joe Cool for Channel 5 news. Police are at a loss to explain the recent rash of thefts. Theives have been stealing batteries and wheel weights from parked cars. Police suspect some type of Fraternaty initiation requirememnt. :-} mike From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!demoax.enet.dec.com!ginger Tue Jan 25 19:12:59 EST 1994 Article: 3455 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!demoax.enet.dec.com!ginger From: ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (Ron Ginger) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Rotary phase converters Date: 25 JAN 94 13:41:26 Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 22 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2i3p81$cai@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> References: <940121180759@sailing.ftp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: demoax.enet.dec.com In article <940121180759@sailing.ftp.com>, jay@ftp.com (Jay Stryker) writes... >In article MARTIN@cubic.com (Bill W. Martin) writes: > >>>Hello, >>> If anyone has info on using a large 3-phase motor as a phase >>>converter, ie 1-phase power to 3-phase power, I have a couple of questions. >>>First, how much power is consumed at idle load condition, relative to the >>>size of the motor being run? I measured the input current to my 2hp phase convertor, at idle and its ony about 1 amp. All its drawing is the windage and bearing loss, since its doing no work. My convertor control is about as simple as possible- a two pole switch, a single pole momentary push button, and a motor starting capacitor- total cost under $20. I flip the switch with my finger, while holding the push button with my thumb, as soon as I hear the motor up to speed I let go of the button. Much siimpler than relays. ron From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!demoax.enet.dec.com!ginger Tue Jan 25 19:13:00 EST 1994 Article: 3456 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!demoax.enet.dec.com!ginger From: ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (Ron Ginger) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Date: 25 JAN 94 13:46:09 Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2i3pg5$cai@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: demoax.enet.dec.com In article , john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) writes... >Looking at the cost of toolpost grinders made me wonder if there might be an >el-cheapo alternative for occasional use. Maybe a dremel mounted in/on the >post? Any guess if standard stones would work? I've seen setups similar to >what 'looks' like a dremel tool used to grind interior tapers. I assume any >slop in the bearings would factor out if the stone was fed slow enough... >Any thoughts/suggestions welcome. > >-john I made a simple wood block to hold my Dremel on the cross slide. It works, but a Dremel is not very powerfull and rather poor bearings- you never notice how poor while hand holding the thing, but when its ridgidly held its a problem. I did use this to true up the jaws of an old 3 jaw chuck. Ive almost orderd a die grinder from Harbor Freight, which notes it has a cylindrical nose suited to clamping as a toolpost grinder. Most of the die grinders have tapered noses that would be hard to mount. Has anyone used teh Harbor Freight die grinder? ron From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!cronkite.cisco.com!cronkite!billw Tue Jan 25 19:13:00 EST 1994 Article: 3457 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!cronkite.cisco.com!cronkite!billw From: billw@glare.cisco.com (William ) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) Date: 21 Jan 94 17:28:42 Organization: cisco Systems, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1994Jan20.154336.17384@ll.mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: glare.cisco.com In-reply-to: Doug White's message of Thu, 20 Jan 94 10:43:34 -0500 ...only pure metals can be used. As a young boy, however, he makes a knife that defies that rule, and it turns out to be a much better knife than any other (keeps an edge better, is sharper, stronger, or maybe (my last choice) the alloy is just easier to work with than a pure metal and he can make it fancier or something). Given that bronze (and brass?) are "better" than pure copper, I think the copper/brass would make the best story. You'd have the added element that the brass allow would look something like pure gold! You'd have to check on the relative properties of Brass vs Bronze - you could have a second level of alloying there... Most fine "patterning" of metalwork in the old days was probably done via etching with acids and other chemicals. As some others have expressed, it would take some "suspension of disbelief" to accept that any old technology was capable of producing "pure" metals in the first place. How would they even tell? (There was an SF story I've heard of where a modern Jet fighter goes back in time to like 1940 or so. The "Integrated circuits" in the electronics (silcon chips) would show up as impossibly pure silicon in any 40's style chemical analysis, even though the chips are composed of silicon with at least two distint impurities...) "What do you mean 'not pure'? This knife is made of the purest brass available!" Chops From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Tue Jan 25 19:13:01 EST 1994 Article: 3458 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Message-ID: <1994Jan25.201815.15327@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 20:18:15 GMT Lines: 20 >>I just don't imagine one will save all that much $$. > >You may be right but it is probably good to stash away for that rainy >day when they ban ammo and reloading components. This is Joe Cool for >Channel 5 news. Police are at a loss to explain the recent rash of >thefts. Theives have been stealing batteries and wheel weights from >parked cars. Police suspect some type of Fraternaty initiation requirememnt. Pipe bombs wired to the battery of an anti-gun politician's car usually get the message across that guns aren't the ONLY way, just the most SELECTIVE way to get rid of someone you don't like.. :^) Eric "Pipe ban? How about a Gasoline ban? no, a CRIMINAL ban" P. -- -- Governments that don't trust honest people with weapons, deserve no trust. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep Tue Jan 25 19:13:02 EST 1994 Article: 3459 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!bleep From: bleep@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (bui tho xuan) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) Date: 25 Jan 1994 20:34:59 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Lines: 18 Message-ID: <2i3vpj$acv@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1994Jan20.154336.17384@ll.mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ux1.cso.uiuc.edu billw@glare.cisco.com (William ) writes: > > ...only pure metals can be used. As a young boy, however, he makes a > knife that defies that rule, and it turns out to be a much better > knife than any other (keeps an edge better, is sharper, stronger, or > maybe (my last choice) the alloy is just easier to work with than a > pure metal and he can make it fancier or something). > >Given that bronze (and brass?) are "better" than pure copper, I think the >copper/brass would make the best story. You'd have the added element that >the brass allow would look something like pure gold!,,.... > He might have a hard time finding metallic zinc (to make brass) without electricity. Metallic tin (for bronze) can be found in nature. This is the reason why we had a "Bronze Age" and no "Brass Age". tho From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj Tue Jan 25 19:13:03 EST 1994 Article: 3460 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj From: rcj@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (R.C. Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.crafts.misc Subject: Re: Polishing old glass? Message-ID: <15553@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> Date: 25 Jan 94 22:27:16 GMT References: <1994Jan24.142053.13544@uicc.com> Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research Co., La Habra, CA Lines: 11 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3460 rec.crafts.misc:2909 If you go to a rock shop and get a powder called tin oxide, put some on a damp buffing wheel you can polish glass with a high enough speed. I use a 3-M abrasive wheel (like potscrubbers) on a die grinder with tin oxide. Also works with marble and harder stones. -- |___________________________________________________________________| >>| Dik Jones, Earth Model Interpretation Internet: rcj@Chevron.com | | Chevron Petroleum Technology Company. Tel: (310) 694-7056 | | La Habra, California 90633-0446 Fax: (310) 694-7063 | From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news2.cis.umn.edu!mmm.mmm.com!us261419 Tue Jan 25 19:13:03 EST 1994 Article: 3461 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news2.cis.umn.edu!mmm.mmm.com!us261419 From: john@calvin.mmm.com (John Taylor) Subject: Forge hand-crank blower value? Message-ID: <1994Jan25.224729.5672@mmm.mmm.com> Sender: us261419@mmm.mmm.com (David P. Erickson) Reply-To: jptaylor@mmm.com Organization: 3M - St. Paul, MN 55144-1000 US X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 22:47:29 GMT Lines: 12 I recently purchased a blower exactly as you described in Austin, Texas for $75. Base and tripod included. -- John P. Taylor 3M Telecom Systems Building A144-5n-01 6801 River Place Blvd. Austin, Tx 78726-9000 jptaylor@mmm.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eff!news.kei.com!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu!v130kmzk Tue Jan 25 19:13:04 EST 1994 Article: 3462 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eff!news.kei.com!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu!v130kmzk From: v130kmzk@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Daniel J Stern) Subject: cire perdu, the lost wax method Message-ID: News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu Organization: University at Buffalo Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 22:30:00 GMT Lines: 6 I am thinking of making several small statues, etc using the lost wax method and silver, but I have no way of melting it, as far as I know. Without the benefit of a furnace, is there any other way to melt silver? Perhaps a soldering torch, or over hot coals? ____________________________________________________________________________ From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!cii3116-22.its.rpi.edu!edgarm Tue Jan 25 19:13:05 EST 1994 Article: 3463 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!cii3116-22.its.rpi.edu!edgarm From: edgarm@cii3116-22.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Silversmithing Stakes Date: 25 Jan 1994 22:06:24 GMT Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY. Lines: 15 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2i4551$rfj@usenet.rpi.edu> Reply-To: edgarm@rpi.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: cii3116-22.its.rpi.edu Greetings, I would like to make a copy of a set of colonial sugar tongs. They are about six inches long and have a small spoon shape at the end to grab lumps of sugar. I have seen a stakes (I hope I have this right, the thing that you put in the anvil used to form a particular shape) in the tool catalogs for $16 to $25 for spoons and $100 and up for larger shapes. These prices are more than I'd like to pay. Now my questions, 1. What type of steel should be used for a homemade stake? 2. Should it be hardened? Thanks netland. Marc Edgar edgarm@rpi.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!msc.edu!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!gossip.pyramid.com!sword.eng.pyramid.com!not-for-mail Wed Jan 26 15:33:20 EST 1994 Article: 3464 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!msc.edu!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!gossip.pyramid.com!sword.eng.pyramid.com!not-for-mail From: khearn@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Keith Hearn) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: cire perdu, the lost wax method Date: 25 Jan 1994 16:21:51 -0800 Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation Lines: 20 Message-ID: <2i4d2v$m3i@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com In article , Daniel J Stern wrote: >I am thinking of making several small statues, etc using the lost wax method >and silver, but I have no way of melting it, as far as I know. Without the >benefit of a furnace, is there any other way to melt silver? Perhaps a >soldering torch, or over hot coals? A soldering torch should be quite sufficient for melting silver for casting. In fact, that's how most casting is done. That way you can keep the heat applied to the metal right up to the last second before pouring. Keith -- Keith Hearn \ There are times when khearn@pyramid.com \ I think a nuclear war Pyramid Technology Corporation \ might benefit mankind. (408) 428-7304 or (408) 263-2701 \ Delenda est Barney. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!srgenprp!frankb Wed Jan 26 15:33:21 EST 1994 Article: 3465 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!srgenprp!frankb From: frankb@sad.hp.com (Frank Ball) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Sender: news@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (News Administrator) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 00:33:57 GMT Distribution: na References: Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.4] Followup-To: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking Lines: 21 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4192 rec.autos.tech:52292 rec.crafts.metalworking:3465 Bob Maccione (bmaccion@promus.com) wrote: & I've got a hole in the floor of my 55 Olds and would like to attack the & welding of it myself. The substructure is fine. I'd like to buy a welder & and am confused as to the best type for this type of application. My & criteria are - 120v operation, less than 500 bucks. My applications are & mostly joining metal together ( since I also want to do a little leading & I have to get a torch, and can use that for some of the cutting ). & Sooo, what are the pros and cons between TIG, MIG, etc? I've & experimented in the past with a torch and yes even used to own a solid-ox & system. I can solder and have studied up enough to take the plunge. I have an oxy/acetelyne torch and a stick welder in the garage. If I had to fix your floor I would fire up the torch and *braze* the new steel in place. It is as easy as soldering and strong enough for the job. -- Frank Ball 1UR-M frankb@sad.hp.com (707) 794-4168 work, Hewlett Packard (707) 794-3844 fax, (707) 538-3693 home 1212 Valley House Drive IT175, XT350, Seca 750, '62 F-100, PL510 Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999 KC6WUG, LAW, AMA, Dod #7566, NMLRA, NRA. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!stuartf Wed Jan 26 15:33:22 EST 1994 Article: 3466 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!stuartf From: stuartf@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Message-ID: <1994Jan26.032112.26028@sequent.com> Sender: usenet@sequent.com (usenet ) Nntp-Posting-Host: eng3.sequent.com Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc. References: <2i3pg5$cai@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Distribution: na Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 03:21:12 GMT Lines: 39 In article <2i3pg5$cai@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (Ron Ginger) writes: >I made a simple wood block to hold my Dremel on the cross slide. It works, but >a Dremel is not very powerfull and rather poor bearings- you never notice how >poor while hand holding the thing, but when its ridgidly held its a problem. I just went through this last weekend. I needed to do some circular milling, had no rotary table, so used my lathe spindle as the mount and used a Dremel 395 as a "toolpost miller". I discovered the slop from side to side is not in the bearings per se. The bearings are rather nice, actually, and there are two on the collet shaft, not even counting the ones on the motor. The problem is that the collet shaft bearings sit in simple molded plastic recesses and there's considerable slop. In fact, I suspect this is why the bearings will whine at certain speeds: they're actually spinning in the recesses until they "grab" hold. I didn't stop to fix things thoroughly, but simply padded the recesses with a couple of shims cut from a 3x5 card. That reduced the deflection to something I was willing to live with. >I did use this to true up the jaws of an old 3 jaw chuck. That's the first thing I did with the Dremel on the lathe. :-) I was using sufficiently light cuts that I didn't notice the deflection at all. (Not that it wasn't there, just that I didn't notice.) Last Saturday, I was making an adaptor for a Bosch router to take Porter-Cable template bushings, and had to cut several recesses along the rim of a disk. I quickly noticed the Dremel's deflection when pushing the cutter into the work. It was rather excessive: about 3/32" at the base of the collet, quite a bit more at the cutting tool! By the way, I suspect the Dremel was *designed* to have a considerable amount of slop. There's a neat automatic clutch made from a piece of plastic tubing with internal splines, and lots of other features to "give" under the abuse of a ham-handed user. Stu Friedberg (stuartf@sequent.com) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!ctp.org!not-for-mail Wed Jan 26 15:33:23 EST 1994 Article: 3467 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!ctp.org!not-for-mail From: efeist@eis.calstate.edu (Eugene P Feist) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Need Manual for lathe Date: 25 Jan 1994 20:28:05 -0800 Organization: California Technology Project of The Calif State Univ Lines: 15 Message-ID: <2i4rgl$52c@eis.calstate.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: eis.calstate.edu Help! I'm a new poster to this group, but I hope someone out there can help. I have a lathe with a leaky oil resivoir in the headstock spindle, and need to find a manual for it. The lathe was mfg by " Centre machinery Co. Ltd." (not a misprint, Centre, British?) it has a 13" swing adn roughly 30" between centers, made in 1982 and model #38. Any information about this lathe or Centre Machinery co. would be of great help to this starving Gunsmith. Thanks. -- efeist@ctp.org Paul Feist Eureka Ca 95501 707 444-0430 (home phone) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Wed Jan 26 15:33:24 EST 1994 Article: 3468 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Toolaholic needs help in crisis Date: 26 Jan 1994 04:39:38 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 25 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2i4s6aINNbhr@lynx.unm.edu> References: Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: golondrinas.unm.edu Greg> Greg> How do you deal with it when your emotional self wants a tool and your Greg> rational self says you don't need it? There is an Atlas horizontal Greg> mill for sale down the road. If it was a great buy, I'd have no Greg> problem... I'd just buy it. But the price is just about what it is Greg> worth, so it's nothing to get stirred up over. But my tool-a-holic Greg> emotional self wants this mill, primarily because I don't already have Fraank> Asking this group of toolaholics about how to deal with your addiction Fraank> seems a bit like asking about your alcoholism problem at the local tavern. Fraank> Perhaps we need a toolaholics anonymous. On second thought I probably Fraank> wouldn't join, since I am having fun with my addiction so far. What is it Fraank> that they say about alcohol? You need to hit bottom before you seek help. ... or blowing yourself up with one of those homebuilt hydro-flux welders... or nearly fatally poising yourself with some toxic chemicals ... or nearly ripping your thumb off with a bad layout ... or just trying to make all the stuff that dreams are made of... EBo -- ------------------------------------------------------ "I don't use drugs, my dreams are frightening enough." -- M.C.Escher From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!csd.unb.ca!mta.ca!AKARPOWICZ Wed Jan 26 15:33:25 EST 1994 Article: 3469 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!csd.unb.ca!mta.ca!AKARPOWICZ From: akarpowicz@mta.ca (Adam Karpowicz) Subject: Re: Rotary phase converters Message-ID: <1994Jan26.010459.1937@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> Sender: news@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca Reply-To: akarpowicz@mta.ca Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada References: <940121180759@sailing.ftp.com>,<2i3p81$cai@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 01:04:59 GMT Lines: 35 In article <2i3p81$cai@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (Ron Ginger) writes: > >In article <940121180759@sailing.ftp.com>, jay@ftp.com (Jay Stryker) writes... >>In article MARTIN@cubic.com (Bill W. Martin) writes: >> >>>>Hello, >>>> If anyone has info on using a large 3-phase motor as a phase >>>>converter, ie 1-phase power to 3-phase power, I have a couple of questions. >>>>First, how much power is consumed at idle load condition, relative to the >>>>size of the motor being run? > > >I measured the input current to my 2hp phase convertor, at idle and its >ony about 1 amp. All its drawing is the windage and bearing loss, since its >doing no work. > >My convertor control is about as simple as possible- a two pole switch, a >single pole momentary push button, and a motor starting capacitor- total >cost under $20. I flip the switch with my finger, while holding >the push button with my thumb, as soon as I hear the motor up to speed I let >go of the button. Much siimpler than relays. > >ron I have a 2hp 3-phase motor too - can you tell me what starting capacitor you use for your motor (in uF)? The motor I have is 220VAC. Is it possible to actually use the converter motor for driving tools? How efficient it would be? Adam akarpowicz@mta.ca From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Wed Jan 26 15:33:27 EST 1994 Article: 3470 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: pazcw@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: cire perdu, the lost wax method Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 11:14:46 +0000 Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article , v130kmzk@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Daniel J Stern) wrote: > I am thinking of making several small statues, etc using the lost wax method > and silver, but I have no way of melting it, as far as I know. Without the > benefit of a furnace, is there any other way to melt silver? Perhaps a > soldering torch, or over hot coals? > It depends on the weight of metal, of course, but a small crucible holding 2 or 3 ounces can be melted using a propane torch. I don't do lost wax (yet!) but have melted this amount of brass for crude cuttlefish castings (Heard of this?) using my brazing torch with the largest flame (8" long flame). Make a crude furnace by packing a few firebricks around the crucible to keep the heat in, and make sure that you have the gear ready to skim, lift and pour it safely. Furnaces are actually very easy to make from old paint cans and fire cement, and will melt more metal for a given heat input due to the improved insulation. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx10!jwiggins Wed Jan 26 15:33:29 EST 1994 Article: 3471 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx10!jwiggins From: jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Joe Wiggins) Subject: Sandblasting question... Message-ID: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Distribution: na Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 15:20:28 GMT Lines: 16 I'd like to get a sandblasting outfit so I can do it myself and not be dependent on the one local (undependable) guy who does it. My mechanic tells me that small home versions are worthless... that it takes forever to prepare a small piece of metal for painting for example. Sears has sandblasting kits for as low as $40 (and recommends using them with at least a 1 horsepower compressor). Has anyone actually done home sandblasting? Is it easy? Fun? What size/capacity compressor should be used? If this is the wrong newsgroup, is there a more appropriate one? Thanks in advance, Joe From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david Wed Jan 26 15:33:31 EST 1994 Article: 3472 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!barney!david From: david@barney.UUCP (David Hoopes) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Silversmithing Stakes Message-ID: <222@barney.UUCP> Date: 26 Jan 94 13:32:33 GMT References: <2i4551$rfj@usenet.rpi.edu> Organization: Exabyte, Lenexa (Formerly Tallgrass Technologies) Lines: 51 edgarm@cii3116-22.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) writes: >Greetings, >I would like to make a copy of a set of colonial sugar tongs. They >are about six inches long and have a small spoon shape at the end >to grab lumps of sugar. I have seen a stakes (I hope I have this >right, the thing that you put in the anvil used to form a particular shape) >in the tool catalogs for $16 to $25 for spoons and $100 and up for >larger shapes. These prices are more than I'd like to pay. >Now my questions, >1. What type of steel should be used for a homemade stake? >2. Should it be hardened? >Thanks netland. >Marc Edgar >edgarm@rpi.edu Questions: Will this work be done hot or cold? Are you planning on making one or two sugar tongs, or are you planning on making a lot? If you want to make a stake that will last for a long time you will need to make it out of a higher carbon steel. If the work is going to be hot then you would need to use one of the special hot work steels like A7 (or is it A13). If it is for cold work, then any general tool steel would work. You might be able to find scrape steel that is usable. Car springs (leaf and coil) are good sources for tool steel. Truck and car axles are a good source for larger pieces. There is another posibility. It may be possible to make a form out of wood. Use the end grain of a fairly hard wood. If you are doing cold work, hollow out a piece the size you want. It will only last for two or three uses, but then you can cut the end of the board off and start over. If you are doing hot work, don't even bother to cut the shape. Put the hot piece up there and start shaping. It will burn a hole as you work. Be sure to do this in a area that is well vented, and has enough of a draft to carry the smoke away from your face. It is hard to work when you are squinting to keep the smoke out of your eyes. I have done this to make iron spoons. It is kind on fun, and it will really impress people who are watching. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- David Hoopes Exabyte Corp. david@tallgrass.COM 11100 W 82nd St. Voice: (913) 492-6002 x3323 Lenexa, Ks 66214 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!rschorr Wed Jan 26 15:33:34 EST 1994 Article: 3473 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!rschorr From: rschorr@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Rivett Lathe Message-ID: <1994Jan26.110948.57726@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Date: 26 Jan 94 11:09:48 CST References: <1994Jan23.202610.29832@cs.cornell.edu> Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services Lines: 27 In article <1994Jan23.202610.29832@cs.cornell.edu>, brown@cs.cornell.edu (Geoffrey Brown) writes: > I have an early Rivett Lathe which I would like to learn more about. The > machine dates to around 1900. It has an 8" swing and 22" between centers. It > looks like a giant watchmakers lathe except that it has a lead screw > and power feeds. An article in American Machinist -- > March 7, 1895 has a description of the (prototype) of the lathe built > by Faneuil Watch company and designed by Edward Rivett. I believe > mine is somewhat later as it lists the manufacturer as Rivett Lathe > co. I have no documentation on the lathe. It is pretty complete (one > collett is broken), but it seems there were attachments available to > allow the compound to be used for milling among other things. I would > love to find out more about the attachments that were available. > > Geoffrey Brown > Here are a few listings-- >From the classified in Horological Times, 1/94 Tom Mister. Herr and Kline inc. 1914 Granby St, Norfolk VA 23517 (804)623-0714. Used watchmakers tools, equipmennt. >From NAWCC MART 1/94 John Hill, Hilman Creek, 7200 McMullen St. ,, Boise, ID 83709 (208)376-0545. Watchmaker tools, lathes, accossories. Others advertise but these are in current issues that I have at hand. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph Wed Jan 26 15:33:35 EST 1994 Article: 3474 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph From: ralph@astolastro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) Subject: Re: Forge hand-crank blower value? Message-ID: <1994Jan26.170358.26587@nomina.lu.se> Sender: ralph@astol (Ralph Snel) Nntp-Posting-Host: nastol.astro.lu.se Organization: Lund Observatory References: Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 17:03:58 GMT Lines: 14 In article , hawkjo@saturn.wwc.edu (JON A HAWKINS) writes: > At an auction today, my friend and I purchased an old forge that had a bunch > of neat tools such as swages, fullers, chisels, etc. It also came with this > hand-crank blower. It's made by Champion Blower and Forge Co., and "No. > 400" was on it. The most recent patent date on it was April 15, 1902, for > whatever that's worth. We were wondering what such a blower is worth > today. It seems to be in reasonable condition, and I just want to know how > tightly I should hang onto it. Thanks. I bought a similar one (Bahco) for the equivalent of $25. I considered it a bargain... Ralph ralph@astro.lu.se From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph Wed Jan 26 15:33:37 EST 1994 Article: 3475 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph From: ralph@astolastro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) Subject: Suggestions for Wrought Iron? Message-ID: <1994Jan26.171727.27090@nomina.lu.se> Sender: ralph@astol (Ralph Snel) Nntp-Posting-Host: nastol.astro.lu.se Organization: Lund Observatory Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 17:17:27 GMT Lines: 18 I managed to get my hands on a fair amount of wrought iron, to be used for making laminated and damascus blades (whenever I get good enough...). I've tried forgewelding a bit of wrought iron to what is called 1770 steel here in Sweden, it's one of the more forgiving steels, about 0.7% carbon. The weld took perfectly (using quartz sand), but when I hardened the laminated blade in water the back of the (wedge shaped) blade cracked irregularly in the center, along the entire length of the blade (so much for water... oil next time). Any suggestions/warnings that I should know of when using wrought iron like this? I guess the cracking was the result of different thermal expansion coefficients for WI and 1770. Anything else WI is particularly well suited for? Ralph ralph@astro.lu.se From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!infiniti!kish Wed Jan 26 15:33:38 EST 1994 Article: 3476 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!infiniti!kish From: kish@watson.ibm.com (Bill Kish) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 17:33:37 GMT Distribution: na Reply-To: kish@infiniti.watson.ibm.com (Bill Kish) Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM. References: Nntp-Posting-Host: infiniti.watson.ibm.com Organization: IBM TJ Watson Research Lines: 32 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4209 rec.autos.tech:52358 rec.crafts.metalworking:3476 In article , frankb@sad.hp.com (Frank Ball) writes: |> Bob Maccione (bmaccion@promus.com) wrote: |> & I've got a hole in the floor of my 55 Olds and would like to attack the |> & welding of it myself. The substructure is fine. I'd like to buy a welder |> & and am confused as to the best type for this type of application. My |> & criteria are - 120v operation, less than 500 bucks. My applications are |> & mostly joining metal together ( since I also want to do a little leading |> & I have to get a torch, and can use that for some of the cutting ). |> & Sooo, what are the pros and cons between TIG, MIG, etc? I've |> & experimented in the past with a torch and yes even used to own a solid-ox |> & system. I can solder and have studied up enough to take the plunge. |> |> I have an oxy/acetelyne torch and a stick welder in the garage. If I |> had to fix your floor I would fire up the torch and *braze* the new |> steel in place. It is as easy as soldering and strong enough for the |> job. |> |> -- |> Frank Ball 1UR-M frankb@sad.hp.com (707) 794-4168 work, |> Hewlett Packard (707) 794-3844 fax, (707) 538-3693 home |> 1212 Valley House Drive IT175, XT350, Seca 750, '62 F-100, PL510 |> Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999 KC6WUG, LAW, AMA, Dod #7566, NMLRA, NRA. I've been following this thread for a while... My quickie contribution to the discussion is to suggest that you use your Oxy-acetelene outfit to butt weld in the patch. Practice welding a couple of pieces of 18ga steel together and see how you like it. You didn't mention the size of the patch, but if it isn't the entire floor panel you should be able to use your torch. -BK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk Wed Jan 26 15:33:39 EST 1994 Article: 3477 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!cdsmail!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!trk From: trk@hemlock.cray.com (Tim Kirby) Subject: Re: making a "dinner triangle" Message-ID: <1994Jan26.105508.25369@hemlock.cray.com> Lines: 31 Nntp-Posting-Host: palm34 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 230993BETA PL2-CRIa] References: <16F49A7A4S85.X1FT@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> Date: 26 Jan 94 10:55:07 CST Frank Tompkins (X1FT@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU) wrote: >I'd like to make (for lack of the correct term) a "dinner triangle"... > >1) Will mild steel be appropriate for this application? (will it "ring" > once shaped properly)? What are "dinner triangles" usually made of (iron)? Probably. You can bet your bottom dollar that the originals weren't made from anything particularly exotic; I think they were as likely to use an old wheel tyre. > 2) will [blackening] keep it from rusting ? Maybe, but you may have problems where you 'hit' it. If you want it to stay nice and shiny, perhaps you are better off using a ibt of stainless (this probably ties in with other recent threads; such triangles were probably knowked up by the local blacksmith out of something that bore more than a passing resemblance to wrought iron... which is generally better in the elements than yer average mild steel as I recall) : 3) I expect to be able to bend the rod (3/4 inches dia.)... 3/4" dia? That is one *impressive* triangle. How big is it going to be on a side? Your jig is probably going to need to be fairly... solid. Tim -- Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- trk@cray.com Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!gumby!wmu-coyote!Dale Wed Jan 26 15:33:40 EST 1994 Article: 3478 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!gumby!wmu-coyote!Dale From: Dale@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Dale Gee) Subject: Re: making a "dinner triangle" Message-ID: <1994Jan26.193923.9701@sol.cs.wmich.edu> Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept. References: <16F49A7A4S85.X1FT@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> <2i42gb$154@pdx1.world.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:39:23 GMT Lines: 18 I made a jig that sits in the hardy hole of my anvil. It's a piece of flat steel with pegs welded on it to form the triangle around. I can make a dinner bell in 29 seconds. From fire to quench tank. One of the fastest sellers I make at craft shows. With a gas forge where I can put a dozen rods in at a time. It's real fast production work. With using steel from the scrap yard. There is some factory that uses rod stock but always has about 3 foot of scarp left over from what they make. The whole cost comes out to be about a buck a bell and I sell them for 10 bucks at the craft shows. Happy forging Dale The Village Iron Weaver From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!clampman.gatech.edu!user Wed Jan 26 15:33:42 EST 1994 Article: 3479 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!clampman.gatech.edu!user From: chuck.lampman@gstrf.gatech.edu (Chuck Lampman) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 15:37:11 -0500 Organization: GSTRF Lines: 27 Distribution: na Message-ID: References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: clampman.gatech.edu In article <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Joe Wiggins) wrote: > Has anyone actually done home sandblasting? Is it easy? Fun? What > size/capacity compressor should be used? Yeah, I use the type of set-up you're talking about in restoring old cars, and it is dirty, hot, slow miserable work. Most home outfits are siphon-type guns, meaning that the abrasive container isn't pressurized. This means more air and less sand than the expensive pressurized ones. They only let you do two or three square inches a minute, which is painfully slow. Add to that the fact that anything less than a 5hp compressor is going to spend about 2/3 of its time recharging, and you'll get precious little work done in a given amount of time. And, of course, even though you are bundled up and wearing a hood, the sand will get in every orfice of your body, and every fold of your clothes. In summer, the cover-up is stifling here in Georgia, and the sand sticks to the sweat. I still get the damned thing out once in a while, though- sometimes its the only way to get the job done. Sigh. Chuck Lampman Chuck.Lampman@gstrf.gatech.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Wed Jan 26 15:33:44 EST 1994 Article: 3480 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: cross slide Message-ID: <1483.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 26 Jan 94 11:25:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 27 I have a project which needs several hundred identical parts - specifically, modifying some modern cartridge cases to a semi-obsolete caliber. After using a conventional case trimmer, I need to turn down the OD of the rim on the case, then cut an extractor groove. I can hold the cases in a collet in the headstock, but my old Atlas only has a compound rest, not front and rear toolblocks like the Hardinge second-op lathes I used to use when I worked in a machine shop. Rather than cranking the cross slide in and out in two separate ops, a typical second-op lathe uses a lever operated slide with front and rear tool blocks. You mount the rear tool upside down, and you can do two ops per part - usually cutoff and chamfer, or groove and chamfer. My choices are: 1) build a lever slide from scratch 2) modify my existing slide 3) find a lever slide and adapt it to the Atlas Does anyone sell the lever slides as a universal retrofit? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Wed Jan 26 15:33:46 EST 1994 Article: 3481 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.consumers.house,rec.woodworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: capacitor start motors. Message-ID: <1994Jan26.194300.3232@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California References: <940121180759@sailing.ftp.com> <2i3p81$cai@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <1994Jan26.010459.1937@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:43:00 GMT Lines: 20 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3481 misc.consumers.house:46307 rec.woodworking:31621 >I have a 2hp 3-phase motor too - can you tell me what starting capacitor >you use for your motor (in uF)? The motor I have is 220VAC. > While on the subject, I've been looking for an Air Compressor (leaning towards the Quincy), and some of the models say "No Starter Required" and another model says: "Magnetic Starter mounted and wired" and another says: "capacitor run and start" Can someone explain the difference and which is better? -- -- Governments that don't trust honest people with weapons, deserve no trust. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!microunity!ericm Wed Jan 26 15:33:47 EST 1994 Article: 3482 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!microunity!ericm From: ericm@microunity.com (Eric Murray) Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Distribution: na Message-ID: <1994Jan26.195052.25850@microunity.com> Sender: usenet@microunity.com (news id) Nntp-Posting-Host: angst.microunity.com Organization: MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc., Sunnyvale, CA References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 19:50:52 GMT Lines: 52 In article <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Joe Wiggins) writes: > >I'd like to get a sandblasting outfit so I can do it myself and not be >dependent on the one local (undependable) guy who does it. My mechanic >tells me that small home versions are worthless... that it takes forever >to prepare a small piece of metal for painting for example. Sears has >sandblasting kits for as low as $40 (and recommends using them with at >least a 1 horsepower compressor). > >Has anyone actually done home sandblasting? Yea. > Is it easy? Pretty much. > Fun? Not really. > What size/capacity compressor should be used? At least 2hp. You want enough motor to keep the compressor tank at full pressure. If you have to stop to let the motor catch up every few minutes, you'll be hating life. Also get a decent air mask (the filter type, preferably with pre-filters that are replaceable). You don't want to be breathing all the dust from the sand, or you'll be coughing up brown gunk for a week. Get all the grease & dirt off the metal... grease will cause the sand particles to stick, and then you're trying to sandblast sand with sand- not too effective. I made a sandblasting area using plastic sheeting in a storage room that's attached to the house. I put a tarp down on the floor to catch the sand so I could recycle it. Make sure you have good lighting- I didn't, and had to re-setup a couple times to do some most blasting when I thought I was "done". I was sandblasting a motorcycle frame to remove a lot of rust. If I were doing something larger, or wanted to do a really good job (i.e. for concours) I'd farm it out to a shop. Your mechanic is right about the time it takes, "forever" is pretty close. -- Eric Murray ericm@microunity.com "Archiving the net is like washing toilet paper!"- Leader Kibo From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!sorlin Wed Jan 26 15:33:49 EST 1994 Article: 3483 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!sorlin From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Date: 26 Jan 1994 20:20:03 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 15 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2i6j9j$rjf@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: < NNTP-Posting-Host: beauty.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4211 rec.autos.tech:52382 rec.crafts.metalworking:3483 >|> I have an oxy/acetelyne torch and a stick welder in the garage. If I >|> had to fix your floor I would fire up the torch and *braze* the new >|> steel in place. It is as easy as soldering and strong enough for the >|> job. Be very careful where you decide to use braze on a car. It cracks very easily, and shouldn't be used in any area which absorbs vibrations. It is also not as strong as weld. I've only had bad experiences with braze --except making lanterns :) steve From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Thu Jan 27 13:20:16 EST 1994 Article: 3484 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Organization: AT&T Distribution: na Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:57:12 GMT Message-ID: References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Lines: 29 >From article <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, by jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Joe Wiggins): > > I'd like to get a sandblasting outfit so I can do it myself and not be > dependent on the one local (undependable) guy who does it. My mechanic > tells me that small home versions are worthless... that it takes forever > to prepare a small piece of metal for painting for example. Sears has > sandblasting kits for as low as $40 (and recommends using them with at > least a 1 horsepower compressor). > > Has anyone actually done home sandblasting? Is it easy? Fun? What > size/capacity compressor should be used? I have the inexpensive Sears snadblaster and a 2 HP Sears compressor. It is at best marginally suitable for large jobs. I did the tube frame of a Lotus 23 with it, removing many layers of paint, and I later did most of the unibody of a Porsche 911. For that kind of task I would try very hard to buy something bigger, or subcontract it out. On the other hand I recently used this combination to prepare my 3/4"/ft live steamer for painting (piece by piece), using a homebuilt plywood sandblasting box, and it worked wonderfully. I don't think you would want anything more agressive (read "faster") for this kind of work. For the record, I used #0 sandblasting sand, which I reuse (at least of the model work). I also added a water trap, including a home-made condenser (6' of copper tubing carrying the air, submerged in a bucket of water, with ice if you want). Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!cs.umd.edu!ebeatty Thu Jan 27 13:20:17 EST 1994 Article: 3485 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!cs.umd.edu!ebeatty From: ebeatty@andy.bgsu.edu (Eric A. Beatty) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.guns Subject: Gatling Gun plans from RG-G Inc. Date: 26 Jan 1994 17:40:08 -0500 Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh. Lines: 14 Sender: magnum@cs.umd.edu Approved: gun-control@cs.umd.edu Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: xring.cs.umd.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3485 rec.guns:54922 Greetings! Has anyone out there in net-land ever ordered or built the .22 caliber Gatling Gun that is offered in plan form from RG-G Inc. of Conifer, Colorado? They have an ad in the back of Home Shop Machinist and I was looking for people's opinions on this project. Please e-mail any responses or follow-ups directly to me at the address below. If there is sufficient interest, I'll post a summary. Thanks! Eric A. Beatty ebeatty@andy.bgsu.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!news.miami.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!sab Thu Jan 27 13:20:19 EST 1994 Article: 3486 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!news.miami.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!sab From: sab@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Suggestions for Wrought Iron? Message-ID: <1994Jan26.155329.3584@tower> Date: 26 Jan 94 15:53:29 -0500 References: <1994Jan26.171727.27090@nomina.lu.se> Lines: 44 In article <1994Jan26.171727.27090@nomina.lu.se>, ralph@astolastro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) writes: > I managed to get my hands on a fair amount of wrought iron, > to be used for making laminated and damascus blades (whenever > I get good enough...). I've tried forgewelding a bit of > wrought iron to what is called 1770 steel here in Sweden, it's > one of the more forgiving steels, about 0.7% carbon. > The weld took perfectly (using quartz sand), but when I > hardened the laminated blade in water the back of the (wedge > shaped) blade cracked irregularly in the center, along the > entire length of the blade (so much for water... oil next time). > > Any suggestions/warnings that I should know of when using > wrought iron like this? I guess the cracking was the result > of different thermal expansion coefficients for WI and 1770. > > Anything else WI is particularly well suited for? > > Ralph > ralph@astro.lu.se You've experienced the wonders of delamination - the bane of the pattern-welding blade maker. If the weld isn't good enough, delamination may even occur in an oil-quench. The recommendation that I got from some professional knife makers was to try to limit forging the billet on line with the weld planes, i.e., ----------- ==> avoid hitting this surface => ----------- ----------- while pounding primarily on this ^^^^ surface. Since you will have to hit occassionally on the weld plane to prevent the billet from getting overly wide, just be sure that the billet is at a good welding heat and be sure to forge it a bit in the normal plane to insure that if there was separation, it will go away. Also be religious about cleaning the weld surfaces - even a bit of fire scale can come back to haunt you. I keep a small angle-grinder near the vise, so that when I make the notch in the billet and start the fold, I can buzz off all scale from the weld surfaces and slightly crown the surfaces to boot. When the weld is made, the flux and scale will then tend to flow out. I've had great luck using wrought-iron and O1 (with apprx 300- 600 layers at termination) using a propane forge and commerical heat-treating oil (of course, the 50lb power hammer helps). Good luck - Steve Bloom (IronFlower Forge) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Thu Jan 27 13:20:21 EST 1994 Article: 3487 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Message-ID: <1491.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 26 Jan 94 16:05:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 12 -> Ive almost orderd a die grinder from Harbor Freight, which notes it -> has a cylindrical nose suited to clamping as a toolpost grinder. Most -> of the die grinders have tapered noses that would be hard to mount. -> -> Has anyone used teh Harbor Freight die grinder? Well, crud. Here I'd been locked into electric thinking along with everyone else, but AIR die grinders are pretty darned cheap - cheap enough to modify one specifically for toolpost work if required. Heck, a new Campbell-Hausfeld air grinder is under $25! From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!microunity!ericm Thu Jan 27 13:20:23 EST 1994 Article: 3488 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!microunity!ericm From: ericm@microunity.com (Eric Murray) Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Distribution: na Message-ID: <1994Jan27.001556.3398@microunity.com> Sender: usenet@microunity.com (news id) Nntp-Posting-Host: angst.microunity.com Organization: MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc., Sunnyvale, CA References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 00:15:56 GMT Lines: 26 In article fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) writes: >From article <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, by jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Joe Wiggins): >> [..] >For the record, I used #0 sandblasting sand, which I reuse (at least >of the model work). I also added a water trap, including a home-made >condenser (6' of copper tubing carrying the air, submerged in a bucket >of water, with ice if you want). I'd forgotten about the water problem- I also had that. Wet sand doesn't work very well. I'm curious about your water trap- did you need to provide a place for the water to go, or just let it build up in the coils? I'd be kinda concerned about soldering a 'Y' into the copper tubing for the water to run into. The air pressure might rupture the soldered joint. Or is 60-70 psi ok in soldered coppr tubing? -- Eric Murray ericm@microunity.com "Archiving the net is like washing toilet paper!"- Leader Kibo From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.ans.net!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!infiniti!kish Thu Jan 27 13:20:24 EST 1994 Article: 3489 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.ans.net!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!infiniti!kish From: kish@watson.ibm.com (Bill Kish) Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 00:18:18 GMT Reply-To: kish@infiniti.watson.ibm.com (Bill Kish) Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM. References: <1491.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Nntp-Posting-Host: infiniti.watson.ibm.com Organization: IBM TJ Watson Research Lines: 24 In article <1491.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us>, dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes: |> |> -> Ive almost orderd a die grinder from Harbor Freight, which notes it |> -> has a cylindrical nose suited to clamping as a toolpost grinder. Most |> -> of the die grinders have tapered noses that would be hard to mount. |> -> |> -> Has anyone used teh Harbor Freight die grinder? |> |> Well, crud. Here I'd been locked into electric thinking along with |> everyone else, but AIR die grinders are pretty darned cheap - cheap |> enough to modify one specifically for toolpost work if required. Heck, |> a new Campbell-Hausfeld air grinder is under $25! |> Don't get the Harbor Freight die grinder !! I bought one and had to send it back because of an out-of-round chuck. The replacement had the same problem... Served me right I guess. -BK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Thu Jan 27 13:20:25 EST 1994 Article: 3490 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Jerrold Beall Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Hydraulic tracer lathe Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:07:58 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 4 Message-ID: <19940126.20075834.jrbeall@delphi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com I am looking for a used tracer lathe....Particularly Myford Mini-Kop or Harrison. J.R.Beall.....pls respond by E Mail if you have info....Thanks From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Thu Jan 27 13:20:27 EST 1994 Article: 3491 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Organization: AT&T Distribution: na Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 01:33:19 GMT Message-ID: References: <1994Jan27.001556.3398@microunity.com> Lines: 47 >From article <1994Jan27.001556.3398@microunity.com>, by ericm@microunity.com (Eric Murray): > In article fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) writes: >>From article <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, by jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Joe Wiggins): >>> > [..] > >>For the record, I used #0 sandblasting sand, which I reuse (at least >>of the model work). I also added a water trap, including a home-made >>condenser (6' of copper tubing carrying the air, submerged in a bucket >>of water, with ice if you want). > > I'd forgotten about the water problem- I also had that. Wet sand > doesn't work very well. > > I'm curious about your water trap- did you need to provide a place for > the water to go, or just let it build up in the coils? > I'd be kinda concerned about soldering a 'Y' into the copper tubing > for the water to run into. The air pressure might rupture the > soldered joint. All I did was place the 6 feet or so of tubing between the tank output (I have a ball valve directly on the tank output for leak-free shutoff, then a pipe to compression fitting) and the standard water trap supplied by Sears. The water trap by itself doesn't do much, since the water at that point is still in vapor form, so it passes right through the trap. With the 6' of tubing passing through cold water, the air is cooled enough to condense the water into tiny droplets. The droplets move with the air flow until they reach the Sears water trap, where they accumulate in the plastic cup forming the bottom of the trap. There is a simple bleed valve to remove the water (the air pressure forces it out very nicely). I had to find a separate mounting for the trap, since the copper tube couldn't support it very well. I coiled the copper tube in about a 8" diameter coil with the turns spaced about 1", so the whole coil fits nicely into a bucket. I only add water to the bucket when I need dry air (typically sandblasting, but painting is another place where it would be useful). I have never had a "wet sand" problem when using the condenser. > Or is 60-70 psi ok in soldered coppr tubing? I don't know about soldered copper. I used 1/4" seamless copper and compression fittings, and I really didn't worry much about my 125 PSI or so max. There is not much area there. My intuition would tell me that 1/2" nominal (9/16"OD actual) copper pipe with soldered fittings would be fine at 125 PSI, but it probably would be wise to look it up. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!EPLUS17 Thu Jan 27 13:20:29 EST 1994 Article: 3492 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!EPLUS17 From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:44:25 CST Organization: C.C.S.O. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <16F4A1159F.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan27.001556.3398@microunity.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vmd.cso.uiuc.edu In article <1994Jan27.001556.3398@microunity.com> ericm@microunity.com (Eric Murray) writes: > >Or is 60-70 psi ok in soldered copper tubing? > Residential water pressure can run that high, and soldered copper plumbing rarely fails. (But there is relatively little chance of injury from a pipe full of water bursting. Something full of air bursting could be dangerous. So, just because soldered copper is good enough for home plumbing doesn't necessarily mean that is good for 60-70 psi air.) ..Richard E+17 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sal.wisc.edu!zimmer!news Thu Jan 27 13:20:31 EST 1994 Article: 3493 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sal.wisc.edu!zimmer!news From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) Subject: Re: Toolaholic... found a cure! Message-ID: Sender: Greg Lewis Nntp-Posting-Host: zimmer.csufresno.edu Organization: CSU Fresno References: Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 01:27:30 GMT Expires: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 08:00:00 GMT Lines: 8 Thanks to all who responded during my tool crisis. I am over it now and think I have found the cure. I told my wife about it. ___________________________________________________________________ Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Thu Jan 27 13:20:33 EST 1994 Article: 3494 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: WALKERMM@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: mokume Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 21:53:52 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 12 Message-ID: <19940126.21535217.walkermm@delphi.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com X-To: RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON Hi--my name is Chris Fuhr and I have some experience with mokume... I have found that you should be able to 'hotwork' (blacksmith) the billet(s) as one piece. If delamination starts to occur, I find that cutting off the delaminating area is the only way to stop the split from continuing. What are you using to control the temperature of the oven? I would highly recommend a computer-controlled pyrometer. Strictly controlling the temperature should cut down on the number of rejections. I am in the middle of making some mokume myself and would be interested in hearing how your endeavors turn out :) Chris Fuhr walkermm@delphi.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Thu Jan 27 13:20:35 EST 1994 Article: 3495 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: WALKERMM@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: cire perdu, the lost wax method Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 22:08:15 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 8 Message-ID: <19940126.22081563.walkermm@delphi.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com X-To: Daniel J Stern I don't recommend trying to melt the silver yourself. You may want to take your project to a jeweler or a foundry (depending on the size of the statues) and have them do the casting for you. Any other method, such as the ones you suggested, could pollute the silver in the casting process. Sincerely, Chris Fuhr walkermm@delphi.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 Thu Jan 27 13:20:37 EST 1994 Article: 3496 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 From: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Date: 27 Jan 1994 04:31:15 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 25 Message-ID: <2i7g2j$bbm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan27.001556.3398@microunity.com> <16F4A1159F.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu> Reply-To: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) NNTP-Posting-Host: piglet.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) says: >In article <1994Jan27.001556.3398@microunity.com> >ericm@microunity.com (Eric Murray) writes: > >> >>Or is 60-70 psi ok in soldered copper tubing? >> >psi air.) > >..Richard E+17 > > I have a 1/2 inch copper water pipe in my lawnmower repair shop for an air line. it has seen 125# of air daily for 4 years with no problems so far... -- "Onward through the fog" - Power-Hitter bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu mburlage@heartland.bradley.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Thu Jan 27 13:20:39 EST 1994 Article: 3497 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Blackening steel? Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 20:00:06 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: Lines: 25 Missout Gilles writes: >In article John De Armond, jgd@dixie.com writes: >>This involves simply immersing the chemically cleaned steel object in >>molten potassium nitrate (saltpeter). As the temperature is brought up, >>the surface turns a straw color which proceeds to blue and then black. >>If you stop at the blue stage, the color will be a gorgeous deep royal >>blue not achievable any other way. Very expensive custom guns are often >>blued this way. >do I have to prevent the solution to come inside the barrel or there is >no problem? No. The oxide coating is so thin as to have no effect. You DO have to protect the barrel if you are parkerizing. We use a piece of all-thread and a couple of rubber-lined steel washers. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com "Would you fire on US Citizens while in the process of confiscating their guns?" A question on a survey given to members of the U.S. counterterrorist unit Navy SEAL Team Six by their commanders last September. Mail to me may be published at my sole discretion. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!mariusj Thu Jan 27 13:20:40 EST 1994 Article: 3498 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!mariusj From: mariusj@netcom.com (Marius Johnston) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.guns Subject: Re: Gatling Gun plans from RG-G Inc. Date: 27 Jan 1994 09:48:24 -0500 Organization: Digital Dew Lines: 39 Sender: magnum@cs.umd.edu Approved: gun-control@cs.umd.edu Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: xring.cs.umd.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3498 rec.guns:55048 Eric A. Beatty (ebeatty@andy.bgsu.edu) wrote: : Greetings! : Has anyone out there in net-land ever ordered or built the .22 caliber : Gatling Gun that is offered in plan form from RG-G Inc. of Conifer, : Colorado? They have an ad in the back of Home Shop Machinist and I was : looking for people's opinions on this project. Please e-mail any : responses or follow-ups directly to me at the address below. If there is : sufficient interest, I'll post a summary. Seems to me you should go for broke :-) I read in Shotgun News: SKS GATLING GUN Uses six SKS rifles (without stocks) No modification to rifles Special dealer price $697. (Rifles not included) Patent pending, some assembly req. send $4.00 for additional info. to: [delete] Then again, next to that add is one for: CANNON BARRELS Motors, Howitzers, Field Cannons,... leads one to think :-> -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Eusa 5:..in tu the hart uv the stoan hart uv the dans. Evere thing blippin + movin in the shiftin uv thay Nos. Sum tyms bytin sum tyms bit. Riddley Walker Marius Johnston Mariusj@netcom.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!news Thu Jan 27 13:20:42 EST 1994 Article: 3499 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!news From: Bill=Nott%Graphics=Dev%PCPD=Hou@bangate.compaq.com Subject: Re: Re: Polishing old glass? Nntp-Posting-Host: bangate.compaq.com References: <=413tdr@dixie.com> Sender: news@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com (Gerry Morong) Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 16:28:53 GMT Message-ID: <75968453334n12@131.168.114.12> Lines: 30 < snip > > >No big mystery. Glass polishing is an ordinary everyday task done by >glass artists and crystalware repairmen everywhere. The process >starts out with jewler's rouge and ends up with cerium oxide. >Check the yellow pages under "glass" and/or "crystal repair". >You can probably get a crystal repairman to give you a bit of the >various abrasives they use. > >john > > >-- >John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com >"Would you fire on US Citizens while in the process of confiscating their guns?" > A question on a survey given to members of the U.S. counterterrorist > unit Navy SEAL Team Six by their commanders last September. >Mail to me may be published at my sole discretion. And if you can't find it there, or can't find such a listing, try Jewelry supplies, Lapidary supplies, Rock Shops, etc. BUT....You should examine the piece closely to assure you're presuming properly, as this procedure won't help with any internal discoloration / staining. If you can't do that, try polishing a small area that's least likely to be noticed before you launch into the big job. Bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Thu Jan 27 13:20:45 EST 1994 Article: 3500 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 27 Jan 1994 17:12:59 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 40 Distribution: na Message-ID: References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Joe Wiggins) wrote: [..stuff about sandblasting..] > Has anyone actually done home sandblasting? Is it easy? Fun? What > size/capacity compressor should be used? > Yup, and I also was well acquainted with it professionally when I was a field engineer at a US Govt Dam. Easy? Yeah, you don't need a Ph.D. Fun? Only for a little while. Size compressor, etc. --- Sandblasting was one of the main reasons I went from a so-called 3 Hp Crapsman compressor to a 5 Hp 2-stage CH compressor. A lot has been written in this and other groups about compressor horsepower. The best indicator is SCFM, which apparently is still an average value, rather than peak. Looking at a recent Grizzly catalog, I noted a "5Hp" compressor that supplied 12.5 CFM at 175 psi, and a "7.5Hp" compressor that supplied 25 CFM at 175 psi. Why do you suppose that was? Answer: the duty cycle of the smaller compressor was less than 100%. So, what does that have to do with sandblasting? Sandblasting uses A LOT OF AIR. You need at least 12.5 CFM, and more comfortably 18. If you buy a so-called 3HP compressor that supplies 7 CFM, you're gonna wait while that sucker pumps back up, and then you're gonna wait while its little motor cools off so you can push the little red button back in so's it'll run again. Of course, if you get one of those cutesy Crapsman plastic sandblasters, maybe other things will hold you up rather than the compressor. I've got a Harbor Freight pressurized steel tank blaster and it works ok. It isn't a wonder of modern technology, but I dunno what I'd do with a Crapsman computerized blaster. Count grains, maybe? Sandblasting is crude, but much better than wire brushes, sandpaper, or grinders. You should expect equipment of appropriate crudity and strength. Gary From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!male.EBay.Sun.COM!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!xb8-144!juliar Thu Jan 27 22:50:30 EST 1994 Article: 3501 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!male.EBay.Sun.COM!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!xb8-144!juliar From: juliar@xb8-144.Eng.Sun.COM (Julia Reuscher) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.arts.fine Subject: Bronze Casting Class Date: 26 Jan 1994 20:03:16 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 65 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: xb8-144 Keywords: Bronze Casting Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3501 rec.arts.fine:3961 RT BRONZE CASTING WORKSHOP *** an Introductory Short Course A Studio Course for the Beginning Individal. Emphasis will be on Fundamental Procedures and Techniques used in all aspects of Lost Wax Casting (via Ceramic Shell). Wax Forming and Fabrication, Basic Mold Making, Foundary Procedures and Finishing will be covered. Conducted in the Artist's Studio environment. All works will be cast in Bronze. NO Prerequisites or Art Training/experience needed. Date/Time: April 26 - May 31, 1994 Tuesday evenings 7 - 10 pm ( 1 day per week for six weeks) Where: Studio #5, The Citadel 199 Martha Street San Jose CA 95112 Fee: $135.00 For further infomation call Jim Cabral (408) 287-6910 Also Intermediate/Advanced Workshops available. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Thu Jan 27 22:50:33 EST 1994 Article: 3502 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Homebrew lathe toolpost grinders? Message-ID: <2i40cp$t04@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: 25 Jan 94 20:45:13 GMT References: <1428.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com I have used a dremel "?(Mighty?)mite" (the minature cordless thingy). I found the size of my toolpost 'bolt' (1/2") and got a 4" bolt that fit. I took an 8" length of 2x4, bored a 1/2" hole, and bolted it in place of the toolpost. I next drilled a center hole at the other end of the wood, with the center drill in the lathe chuck. I next removed the wood (marking the top) and drilled a press-fit hole for the dremel body. A slot from this hole to the end of the wood and a clamping bolt finished the job. I build ship models, and find that a small circular saw in the dremel allows me to machine long "whippy" things like masts. Maybe you can use this idea. JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!cbnews!jrm Thu Jan 27 22:50:33 EST 1994 Article: 3503 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!cbnews!jrm From: jrm@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.r.miller) Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Organization: AT&T Distribution: na Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 18:59:21 GMT Message-ID: Summary: sandblasting References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Lines: 51 In article <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Joe Wiggins) writes: > > I'd like to get a sandblasting outfit so I can do it myself and not be > dependent on the one local (undependable) guy who does it. My mechanic > tells me that small home versions are worthless... that it takes forever > to prepare a small piece of metal for painting for example. Sears has > sandblasting kits for as low as $40 (and recommends using them with at > least a 1 horsepower compressor). > > Has anyone actually done home sandblasting? Is it easy? Fun? What > size/capacity compressor should be used? > > If this is the wrong newsgroup, is there a more appropriate one? > > Thanks in advance, > Joe > I have been sandblasting with one of the small units for several years. They are a "suction" based design, the air from the compressor passes over a hole in the gun and the sand is sucked out of the hole and into the air stream (of course, a hose is connected from the "hole" in the gun to the canister that contains the sand). In general, this type of arrangement works good for removing paint and crud from wood and metal surfaces. However, it takes a lot of time to remove heavy rust such as what you find on car frames or old boat keels. To effectively remove the heavy rust, you must have the pressurized type of sandblaster. The canister containing the sand is pressurized and so the sand is forced out of the canister under pressure, not "sucked" as indicated above. This type of sandblaster is much more expensize (10x the price of the suction type) and can be dangerous. You should wear a full body suit and hood and have an external air supply when you use it. Furthermore, they use a lot more air to do their job and require a much bigger compressor. The suction type only requires a filter mask, hood and gloves and about 1.5 - 2 HP. I won't have anything to do with the pressurized blasters, my suction type does the job 90% of the time, for the other 10%, I hire the job out and let them take the risks. The sears sandblaster for 40$ is just fine, check harbor freight, I have seen the same thing there for about 10$ less. john miller Columbus, Ohio From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!achilles.ctd.anl.gov!shaffer Thu Jan 27 22:50:34 EST 1994 Article: 3504 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!achilles.ctd.anl.gov!shaffer From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.guns Subject: Re: Gatling Gun plans from RG-G Inc. Date: 27 Jan 1994 14:42:02 -0500 Organization: Argonne National Laboratory Lines: 31 Sender: magnum@cs.umd.edu Approved: gun-control@cs.umd.edu Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: xring.cs.umd.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3504 rec.guns:55130 #Seems to me you should go for broke :-) Naw going for broke would be a gatling in .50BMG. :-} #I read in Shotgun News: # #SKS GATLING GUN #Uses six SKS rifles (without stocks) #No modification to rifles # #Special dealer price $697. #(Rifles not included) #Patent pending, some assembly req. #send $4.00 for additional info. to: #[delete] Sounds like an expensive Rube to me. I would think that a .30cal gatling gun could be built fo a whole lot less than the $1000 you would end up spending on this thing. #Then again, next to that add is one for: # #CANNON BARRELS #Motors, Howitzers, Field Cannons,... # #leads one to think :-> Think of what? mike From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!news.miami.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!mailer.acns.fsu.edu!ronpc.psy.fsu.edu!thompson Thu Jan 27 22:50:35 EST 1994 Article: 3505 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!news.miami.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!mailer.acns.fsu.edu!ronpc.psy.fsu.edu!thompson From: thompson@psy.fsu.edu (Ron Thompson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: casting sand & refractory cement Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 14:21:27 GMT Organization: Psychology Dept., FSU Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ronpc.psy.fsu.edu In article thompson@psy.fsu.edu (Ron Thompson) writes: >From: thompson@psy.fsu.edu (Ron Thompson) >Subject: casting sand & refractory cement >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 14:16:00 GMT >HI, >I AM INTERESTED IN BUILDING A FURNACE FIRED BY A FUEL OIL BURNER (SALVAGED >FORM A HEATING SYSTEM). I NEED AN ADDRESS FOR A COMPANY THAT SELLS CASTABLE >REFRACTORY CEMENT. >I AM ALSO INTEREDTED IN TRYING PETRO BOND SAND AND NEED A SOURCE FOR THAT >TOO. >IT WOULD BE NICE IF I COULD FIND A SUPPLIER IN THE N. FLORIDA/ S. GEORGIA >AREA. I HATE TO PAY FREIGHT ON 100 LB BAGS OF SAND ! >THANKS, Ron >Ron Thompson | Internet: thompson@psy.fsu.edu >Psychology Dept. | Voice: 904-644-5563 >Florida State University | FAX: 904-644-7739 >Tallahassee, FL 32306-1051 Ron Thompson | Internet: thompson@psy.fsu.edu Psychology Dept. | Voice: 904-644-5563 Florida State University | FAX: 904-644-7739 Tallahassee, FL 32306-1051 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!darkstar Thu Jan 27 22:50:36 EST 1994 Article: 3506 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!darkstar From: darkstar@u.washington.edu (Alden Hackmann) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Toolaholic... found a cure! Date: 27 Jan 1994 19:25:43 GMT Organization: University of Washington Lines: 10 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2i94fn$im0@news.u.washington.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis) writes: >Thanks to all who responded during my tool crisis. I am over it now >and think I have found the cure. I told my wife about it. That doesn't work for me, as we both work in the wood and metal shops. My wife would just say, "Sure, dear, but where will we put it?" Alden From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!basse Thu Jan 27 22:50:36 EST 1994 Article: 3507 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!basse From: basse@austin.ibm.com (Basse) Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Originator: basse@basse.austin.ibm.com Sender: news@austin.ibm.com (News id) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 20:01:06 GMT Distribution: na Reply-To: YOURLOGIN@YOURCOMPUTER.austin.ibm.com References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 37 In article <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Joe Wiggins) writes: > > I'd like to get a sandblasting outfit so I can do it myself and not be > dependent on the one local (undependable) guy who does it. My mechanic > tells me that small home versions are worthless... that it takes forever > to prepare a small piece of metal for painting for example. Sears has > sandblasting kits for as low as $40 (and recommends using them with at > least a 1 horsepower compressor). > > Has anyone actually done home sandblasting? Is it easy? Fun? What > size/capacity compressor should be used? > > If this is the wrong newsgroup, is there a more appropriate one? > > Thanks in advance, > Joe > It depends on how much you want to do. I have one of the $40 ones with a 1.5 hp compressor driving it. It's a lot like a spray gun. It takes me about 15 to 20 minutes per square foot to sandblast metal. Works great for cleaning spark plugs. Less then 5 seconds per plug. It's a hassle to constantly refill the 1qt. canister though so I built a plywood box with a glass window and a funnel shaped bottom to catch the sand. I recycle this sand by drawing it back into the gun with a hose placed on the pickup tube after I removed the 1 qt. canister. The box also keeps the sand from going everywhere. It's a terrible mess if you don't use something to contain it. I guess it depends on how big your project is and how much time you want to spend on it. My two cents worth. Hank -- Hank Basse | IBM internal: basse@basse 512 838-1442 | basse.austin.ibm.com!basse@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com Only my opinion.| ibmpa!basse.austin.ibm.com!basse@ibminet.awdpa.ibm.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nwnexus!ole!grant Thu Jan 27 22:50:37 EST 1994 Article: 3508 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nwnexus!ole!grant From: grant@neptune.cdac.com (Grant Erwin) Subject: comments on Rudy Kouhoupt's lathe video Message-ID: <1994Jan27.194532.3070@ole.cdac.com> Sender: grant@ole.cdac.com (Grant Erwin) Organization: Cascade Design Automation, Bellevue, WA Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 19:45:32 GMT Lines: 12 I recently saw this video in the Seattle Public Library, and thought I'd check it out. I was really disappointed. The picture quality was terrible, the editing was completely amateurish, and the technical content was very minimal. The best feature of this video is Rudy's old South Bend Model B, which is in really good shape. But I would really seriously think twice before ordering this video from HSM or anywhere else. Grant Erwin ********* Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one ********** From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!basse Thu Jan 27 22:50:38 EST 1994 Article: 3509 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!basse From: basse@austin.ibm.com (Basse) Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Originator: basse@basse.austin.ibm.com Sender: news@austin.ibm.com (News id) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 21:39:58 GMT Distribution: na Reply-To: YOURLOGIN@YOURCOMPUTER.austin.ibm.com References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1994Jan26.195052.25850@microunity.com> Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 74 In article <1994Jan26.195052.25850@microunity.com>, ericm@microunity.com (Eric Murray) writes: > In article <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Joe Wiggins) writes: > > > >I'd like to get a sandblasting outfit so I can do it myself and not be > >dependent on the one local (undependable) guy who does it. My mechanic > >tells me that small home versions are worthless... that it takes forever > >to prepare a small piece of metal for painting for example. Sears has > >sandblasting kits for as low as $40 (and recommends using them with at > >least a 1 horsepower compressor). > > > >Has anyone actually done home sandblasting? > > Yea. > > > Is it easy? > > Pretty much. > > > Fun? > > Not really. > > > What size/capacity compressor should be used? > > At least 2hp. You want enough motor to keep the compressor > tank at full pressure. If you have to stop to let the motor > catch up every few minutes, you'll be hating life. > > Also get a decent air mask (the filter type, preferably with > pre-filters that are replaceable). You don't want to be breathing > all the dust from the sand, or you'll be coughing up brown gunk > for a week. To keep the dust and sand off yourself and clothing, you might try a plastic rain suit with a hood made of a garbage bag with a plexiglas window duct taped into it and maybe a hat to help support the whole thing (like a beekeeper). The whole suit and hood can be kept under a slight positive pressure with a vacuum cleaner with an extension hose connected to its blower outlet. If the vacuum runs too fast and blows too much air, it can be throttled with a light dimmer or rheostat. This should ventilate the suit-hood combination fairly well and prevent grit from getting on you and in your lungs since all openings and leaks will have air coming out. Just an idea, might work. Hank Basse > Get all the grease & dirt off the metal... grease will > cause the sand particles to stick, and then you're trying to > sandblast sand with sand- not too effective. > > I made a sandblasting area using plastic sheeting in a storage > room that's attached to the house. I put a tarp down on the floor > to catch the sand so I could recycle it. Make sure you have good > lighting- I didn't, and had to re-setup a couple times to do some > most blasting when I thought I was "done". > > I was sandblasting a motorcycle frame to remove a lot of rust. > If I were doing something larger, or wanted to do a really good > job (i.e. for concours) I'd farm it out to a shop. > > Your mechanic is right about the time it takes, "forever" is > pretty close. > > > > -- > Eric Murray ericm@microunity.com > "Archiving the net is like washing toilet paper!"- Leader Kibo -- Hank Basse | IBM internal: basse@basse 512 838-1442 | basse.austin.ibm.com!basse@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com Only my opinion.| ibmpa!basse.austin.ibm.com!basse@ibminet.awdpa.ibm.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!scot Thu Jan 27 22:50:39 EST 1994 Article: 3510 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!scot From: scot@fc.hp.com (Scot Heath) Subject: Re: Rotary phase converters Sender: news@fc.hp.com (news daemon) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 23:03:54 GMT References: <74160005@hpcss01.cup.hp.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: hpfiseh.fc.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.4] Lines: 35 Mark Williams (markw@hpcss01.cup.hp.com) wrote: : Yes, 3 phase motors can serve as rotary phase converters, wiht reduced : power from the target motor. : You basically run the 3 phase motor off 220, on two of the phases, and : the spinning motor will generate a third phase. This is a hack, since : two of the phases are the 220 volt line (180 instead of 120 degrees out : of phase) This is not correct. If you were to look at the voltage vrs. time plot of the 240v available in a home or the 240V available between 2 phases on a 240v 3 phase circuit, you would see the same thing, a 339v peak, 60Hz sine wave. The two leads of the motor connected to the 230v line see this also. The voltage from either of the applied leads to the third lead on the motor will be, under ideal conditions, 240v and 120 degrees out of phase with the applied voltage. This is due to the geometry of the motor, which may be modeled as a transformer with a rotating secondary. I have seen this mis-information in many posts regarding 3-phase converters. I think it is a result of trying to incorporate the center tap "neutral" line of household single phase systems into the problem. This tap has no bearing on the applied 240V. -Scot -- DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER Everything I write is my opinion only. Nobody else would want it. DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER Scot E. Heath "Nothing beats turning clay to dust." Fort Collins, CO scot@hpfcla.fc.hp.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!eng.ufl.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!keuka!chrisk Thu Jan 27 22:50:39 EST 1994 Article: 3511 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!eng.ufl.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!keuka!chrisk From: chrisk@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Chris Kapral) Subject: Re: making a "dinner triangle" Message-ID: Sender: news@oakhill.sps.mot.com (oakhill news) Nntp-Posting-Host: keuka Reply-To: chrisk@oakhill.sps.mot.com Organization: Motorola, Inc. References: <2i42gb$154@pdx1.world.net> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 21:14:04 GMT Lines: 11 in article <2i42gb$154@pdx1.world.net>, steve@bluesky.com (Steve Hampson) writes: >It may look better if the ends are drawn to a point and forged to >create loops -- one at the top to hang it and one at the other end for >decoration. It should be held by a piece of leather or rope to allow >it to vibrate freely. I've seen triangles that have loops on the ends of the bar, but I don't thing you can hang it by the loops, because the ends have to be free to vibrate. You have to hang it by one of the bends. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Thu Jan 27 22:50:40 EST 1994 Article: 3512 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... Distribution: na References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 65 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 20:53:19 +0000 Message-ID: <759703999snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu "Joe Wiggins" writes: > I'd like to get a sandblasting outfit Home sandblasting sucks. I initially bought one of the Machine Mart spot sandblast guns (siphon type) and a bucket of silicon carbide grit. It's great, *within* *its* *limitations*. As a means of taking car bodywork back to bare steel for retouching rust spots or small dents, then it's great. You don't care that it only prepares a small spot each time, and as it has a rubber shroud around the nozzle, then it doesn't need a booth. It also does a nice job of etching glass through a steel or sticky-backed-plastic mask. For big areas, you can forget it. I've since bought a pressure pot sandblaster for about 80 quid (advertised in the back of Practical Classics). This is *much* better, although it's taxing on my 12 cfm compressor. My only criticism of this thing is that the delivery hose is too short, so that to use it in a bench-top blast cabinet I have to stand the pot on the bench alongside it, making refilling a bit awkward. A control valve on the nozzle itself might be nice too - I might try one of the after-market ones. I really only use my sand blaster in a sealed blast cabinet, so eye protection isn't an issue. The cabinet is DIY, an old galzanised water tank turned on its side, with a hinged wooden front. The viewing window is just glass, with a replaceable layer of cling-film (saran wrap) on the inside. Hand holes use long rubber drain-cleaning gloves and the blast hose goes in through one of a number of 6" lengths of lay-flat hosepipe. An air *outlet* is important too - when I first made it, the air pressure built up and popped the front door open in my face ! No inside lights or grit hopper yet - maybe some day. For big stuff, I started off by doing it outdoors (in the middle of a big field) but it really does need some sort of booth. If I was going to make a habit of this, I'd get a steel cargo container and use that - or maybe buy a custom sandblast booth (the joys of having a recesssion in the UK - lots of cheap tools, if you only have the space for them). As it is, I've pretty much decided that anything that will fit in the cabinet can be tackled myself, anything bigger than that gets farmed out to our local (and equally unreliable) commercial sandblaster. You don't need goggles or a facemask for sand blasting, what you need is a *helmet*, together with a proper fabric hood coming down over your shoulders. I wouldn't even like to use the full-face visor I use for casting metal, if that much airborne grit is flying around, I feel you do need the extra protection of a hood. I sewed my own up from an old construction workers hard hat and a few lengths of proofed canvas. For breathing, I use the same filtered air supply that I use for spraying 2-pack paints. A good filter mask might do, but it's so hot in there that a powered air filter pump would be well worth it. One other point - don't try *sand*blasting, always use proper grit. I believe sand is still used for some materials, but it is a real hazard for breathing problems and silicosis. Sand fragments into tiny shards which irritate the lungs, synthetic grits break into more equally sized pieces and so can be stopped by facemasks. -- _ Andy Dingley / ) ' ,_ _, / _ ) _/_ Codesmiths of Newcastle /_ / / / / (_) /_) (_) /_ dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (_) +44 091 230 1695 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Thu Jan 27 22:50:41 EST 1994 Article: 3513 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <2hmaga$k5r@slab.mtholyoke.edu> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 12 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 21:12:03 +0000 Message-ID: <759705123snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <2hmaga$k5r@slab.mtholyoke.edu> wkaiser@mtholyoke.edu "William F. Kaiser" writes: > You might want to consider how your society gets _pure_ metals. Getting > extraneous crud out of metals is often not a trivial task. Not a problem here. Assuming we're talking about copper/heretical bronze metallurgy, then a pre-bronze age society is pretty primitive. At that time, all (nearly all ? - go on, prove me wrong 8-) ) metals would have been found in their native form as "dendritic" copper, rather than smelted from ores. This also fits nicely with the religious theme. Of course there isn't much of this stuff around, and even less of it left today, but you can still see small pieces in craft/lapidary shops - the greenish brown tree-like structures. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers Thu Jan 27 22:50:42 EST 1994 Article: 3514 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!rhea!handers From: handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (Howard Anders) Subject: Blackening steel Message-ID: <1994Jan28.010153.15905@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 01:01:53 GMT Lines: 6 Many tks to all those who have replied to this thread. One of the original replies talked about the nitrate blueing process, and the prkerizing process. Just wondering are these the same? Also the nitrate process used molten Potassium Nitrate as the active agent. Can Sodium Nitrate be used instead? Tks. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Tue Feb 1 12:48:08 EST 1994 Article: 3515 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Distribution: na References: Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 55 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 02:40:58 +0000 Message-ID: <759724858snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4267 rec.autos.tech:52553 rec.crafts.metalworking:3515 In article bmaccion@promus.com "Bob Maccione" writes: > I've got a hole in the floor of my 55 Olds and would like to attack the > welding of it myself. No question about it, get a mig. Brazing ? NO ! It's just not strong enough for repairing bodywork. It's now a stated failure on the UK MOT test to have a brazed repair in a structural part of a car's bodywork. Not without reason either, although the interpretation of "structural" is a bit vague. Oxy/acetylene ? Great fun, but sloooowwww........ In the UK, the costs of bottle rental are also prohibitive. You can only buy the small bottles, and they're a pain for running out when you don't want them to. Of course, having it around as a source of heat may be useful for other stuff. Tig ? Great thing to have around, but expensive to buy. For simple bodywork, I'd be hard-pressed to think of any advantage over mig. Arc ? Useless for thin stuff. OTOH, arc welders are dirt cheap, handy for hacking up the occasional bit of angle iron bracketry, and the "2 carbon rods" brazing torches are a convenient source of heat. Vibrating electrode gimmicks are just that - gimmicks. So what do you want from a mig ? They're all much the same price to buy, but the running costs vary. Cored wire mig welding is expensive and a waste of time. Use a proper gas shield around it. Disposable cylinders are expensive (especially when they leak flat once you've opened them), but you can always get a disposable cylinder welder then add your own regulator & pub CO2 cylinder later. I still buy my argon in disposables. Wire reel size is important - the bigger the reels are, the cheaper it is. Make sure the welder can handle 2.5kg reels (most of the top-mounted reels are OK). Live welding torches are an inconvenience you can live with, but most modern machines are insulated. Removable torch cables are a convenience that isn't worth paying money for. The biggest single variation between mig welder brands is the quality of the wire feed mechanism. A 4 roller setup is *far* superior to a 2 roller setup. Some 2 roller setups are so bad for sticking & slipping that some days I feel I'd be better feeding the bloody wire by hand ! I have 2 SIP welders, the small Migmate is just a total dog for this, and the bigger replacement isn't *much* better 8-( Aluminium welding with a mig is surprisingly easy, just change the gas to argon and make sure the rollers will feed the thicker aluminium wire. If you get copper buildup on the steel rollers, clean it off by dunking them in ferric chloride (printed circuit board etchant) for a few minutes. -- Andy Dingley Codesmiths of Newcastle dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk Remember ! 23rd May 1994 is SPAM Jake day From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!not-for-mail Tue Feb 1 12:48:09 EST 1994 Article: 3516 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!not-for-mail From: docbaker@news.delphi.com (DOCBAKER@DELPHI.COM) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: hydrogen ebrittlement Date: 28 Jan 1994 00:34:30 -0500 Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation Lines: 22 Message-ID: <2ia856$he0@news.delphi.com> References: <2gv7tn$6pf@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> <2h14s4$610@crcnis1.unl.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: news.delphi.com mjj@unlinfo.unl.edu (michael jensen) writes: >chris@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Chris Demke) writes: >> What is hydrogen embrittlement? The rocker arms on the motor >> of my dad's dragster are prone to break. They are aluminum >> with a hard anodize coating. My dad claims that they may have >> weakened by hydrogen embrittlement during the anodize pro- >> cess, but he couldn't give me a good answer as to what hydro- >> gen embrittlement is and what causes it. Any takers??? I agree with MJJ@UNL.EDU--This sounds more like fatigue, possibly caused by cracks in the anodized coating (The coating, by the way, is a hard layer of aluminum oxide.) Hydrogen embrittlement as far as I know does not occur in aluminum. Also, it usually happens after a time at constant stress, and almost always in steel which is harder than Rockwell C 40. It is caused by migration of dissolved hydrogen to the tips of tiny cracks, which allows the cracks to grow further until the part finally breaks. It can be cured as long as the part has not already cracked by heating the part to about 400 degrees F for three to four hours. docbaker@delphi.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!not-for-mail Tue Feb 1 12:48:10 EST 1994 Article: 3517 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!not-for-mail From: docbaker@news.delphi.com (DOCBAKER@DELPHI.COM) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Hardening Stainless Date: 28 Jan 1994 00:55:06 -0500 Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation Lines: 15 Message-ID: <2ia9bq$i4i@news.delphi.com> References: <2hnc10$pjl@panix2.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: news.delphi.com danw@panix.com (Dan Wold) writes: >I've been making sidewalk ice-choppers. The blade is 1/8" 316 alloy >stainless-steel. I grind a chisel edge onto the blade. Can someone advise me >on how to harden/temper these blades to increase the durability? Unfortunately, you are using an alloy which is not heat treatable. Its main claim to fame is its corrosion resistance. The only way I know to harden it is by work hardening. If you bought 1/8" sheet, it is probably already as hard as it is going to get. You could use a 400-series stainless and still have good corrosion resistance, but heat treating it to increase its hardness would be tricky without special equipment. It could be done easily by a commercial heat treating shop. docbaker@delphi.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!jabba.ess.harris.com!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws Tue Feb 1 12:48:11 EST 1994 Article: 3518 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!jabba.ess.harris.com!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws From: jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) Subject: Re: Sandblasting question... References: <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 19:15:00 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: billy.mlb.semi.harris.com Distribution: na Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL Sender: news@mlb.semi.harris.com Message-ID: <1994Jan27.191500.4285@mlb.semi.harris.com> Lines: 45 In article <1994Jan26.152028.2088@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jwiggins@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Joe Wiggins) writes: > >I'd like to get a sandblasting outfit so I can do it myself and not be >dependent on the one local (undependable) guy who does it. My mechanic >tells me that small home versions are worthless... that it takes forever >to prepare a small piece of metal for painting for example. Sears has >sandblasting kits for as low as $40 (and recommends using them with at >least a 1 horsepower compressor). > >Has anyone actually done home sandblasting? Is it easy? Fun? What >size/capacity compressor should be used? Sandblasting is energy intensive and inefficient. To get a high rate of material removal you have to have to throw a lot of air and sand. You by with a little cup-type gun and a 1HP compressor if all you want to do is clean out some rust spots. Big pieces will require proportionately more time or more power. The bigger blasters need more air; even the small portable one I have (the kind with the hopper you can carry on a strap) need a 5HP compressor. The big commercial outfits have nice, big stationary compressors which can run big nozzles all day long. Suction feed sandblasters are not as nice as pressure feed ones. The former depend on air velocity, hence air pressure, to pull the sand. If the compressor can only hold 40-60PSI at the flow you need the sand delivery will be spotty. I made a pressurized hopper which I use to feed my suction-type gun, using a spare compressor tank mounted on end. I feed this with regulated air so that the sand flow trickles out when the blast air is idle; when it's on, the sand has no problems being drawn up. For air delivery you'll want a minimum of 3/8" air hose. Forget about using 1/4", unless you have a high pressure setpoint and can tolerate 20-40PSI of pressure drop in the hose. I have air plumbed in the garage and use garden hose to run the sandblaster; no pressure drop to speak of, and I can work 50 ft from the garage, on the lawn where sand is unlikely to cause marital strife. I can't say sandblasting is fun. It's the only tool for certain situations, that's all. -- ########################################################################## #Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons # #living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-# #sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!# From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!pv0c0d.vincent.iastate.edu!stiletto Tue Feb 1 12:48:12 EST 1994 Article: 3519 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!pv0c0d.vincent.iastate.edu!stiletto From: stiletto@iastate.edu (James J. Boley) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Where to find stuff... Date: 28 Jan 94 04:46:31 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa Lines: 12 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: pv0c0d.vincent.iastate.edu Greetings! I am a beginning knifemake who is starting to setup a forge and workshop. What I was wondering, does anyone have any places I could write or call for a catalog or information for a gas powered forge? I have found everything else but this. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.... Stiletto -- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!bga.com!news.sprintlink.net!connected.com!beauty!rwing!xpresso!bill Tue Feb 1 12:48:13 EST 1994 Article: 3520 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!bga.com!news.sprintlink.net!connected.com!beauty!rwing!xpresso!bill From: bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: knife making - novice Message-ID: Date: 28 Jan 94 04:57:22 GMT References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> Organization: (N.) To be organized. But that's not important right now..... Lines: 25 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM wrote: > My son has recently decided to try making knives (based on an article > he saw in Popular Mechanics). > I suggested that he start by working on old knives to get some > experience (cleaning the blade, putting a new handle on the knife, etc) > first. Could anyone suggest any good books (or supply catalogs) for > him to get? > One other thing, he has an old knife that he wants to work on, it was > a stainless steel blade and has a bit of corrosion and dullness to it. > What is the correct way to restore the blade? > thanks, > james Don't expect to be able to sharpen a stainless blade, they don't. You can grind/file or whatever forever until you get a razor sharp blade, breath on it once and it's dull again. -- A weapon + Help cut down on + bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) in every hand = + Government Spending; + rwing!xpresso!bill Bothell, Wa. Freedom + Resurect a Local + You listen when I xpresso, on every side. + Militia near You! + I listen when uuxpresso....:-) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!mcdphx!courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com!paul Tue Feb 1 12:48:13 EST 1994 Article: 3521 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!mcdphx!courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com!paul From: paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Paul Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Milling in the Home Workshop Date: 25 Jan 1994 14:19:46 GMT Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Urbana Design Center Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2i39q2$o4h@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> References: <2hsdqh$b5j@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> <2i1krs$irj@pdx1.world.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: predator.urbana.mcd.mot.com steve@bluesky.com (Steve Hampson) writes: >In article <2hsdqh$b5j@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> >paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Paul Jones) writes: >> In the Sep/Oct 1993 issue of HSM, the part 2 article, "Thoughts on >> Selecting Vertical Mills" by Thomas F. Howard lists a book entitled >> "Milling in the Home Workshop" by Arnold Throp, published by >I believe this is the book: "Vertical Milling in the Home Workshop" by >Arnold Throp, book #2 in the Workshop Practice Series from Argus. It >is >listed in the current Centaur Forge catalog, number BK563, for $11.75. >Their phone number is 1-800-666-9175. Thanks to all for their responses. I have several leads now. ------ Paul Jones, Motorola MCG paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com 1101 E. University Ave. Voice: (217) 384-8529 Urbana, IL 61801, USA FAX: (217) 384-8550 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!gatekeeper.es.dupont.com!esds01.es.dupont.com!SHEARER@esvx12.es.dupont.com Tue Feb 1 12:48:14 EST 1994 Article: 3522 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!gatekeeper.es.dupont.com!esds01.es.dupont.com!SHEARER@esvx12.es.dupont.com From: shearer@esvx12.es.dupont.com (Stephen Shearer) Subject: Re: Need sources for small drive parts Message-ID: <1994Jan28.145206.8227@es.dupont.com> Sender: news@es.dupont.com (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: esvx12.es.dupont.com Reply-To: shearer@esvx12.es.dupont.com Organization: DuPont (Opinions are those of the writer only) References: , Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 14:52:06 GMT Lines: 23 In article , wwebster@bnr.ca (Bill Webster) writes: >In article , colin@psych.toronto.edu (Colin >Hinz) wrote: >> >> john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper) writes: >> >I would appreciate pointers to sources for small (under 4") steel/CI/brass >> >gears, worms, bronze sleeves, etc.. Mailorder would be fine, as would >> >someplace more economical than $mall part$. Apologies if this is a FAQ. >> > > >You might try hobby shops which sell radio controlled cars. These cars >have dozens of different sized gears available, not to mention the >possible gear ratio combinations. They also sell some pretty high >speed bearings for a reasonable price. > >Bill Webster (WWEBSTER@BNR.CA) I just got a nice set of catalogs/handbooks from STERLING INSTRUMENT 516-328-3300 & fax 516-326-8827. NO prices, call for quote. Carries Inch and Metric components: gears, shafts, bearings, couplings, timing belts, chains etc.... hardware, motors, clutches. Design data! Steve (WB3LGC@aol.com) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie Tue Feb 1 12:48:15 EST 1994 Article: 3523 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: casting sand & refractory cement Message-ID: <1994Jan28.102419.194@flying-disk.com> Date: 28 Jan 94 10:24:19 PST References: Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 43 In article , thompson@psy.fsu.edu (Ron Thompson) writes: >>I AM INTERESTED IN BUILDING A FURNACE FIRED BY A FUEL OIL BURNER (SALVAGED >>FORM A HEATING SYSTEM). I NEED AN ADDRESS FOR A COMPANY THAT SELLS CASTABLE >>REFRACTORY CEMENT. Call A. P. Green and ask for a distributer in your area. They have a wide variety of castable refractories. The distributer may be able to suggest a local source for Petro Bond. A. P. Green Green Blvd. Mexico, MO 65265 (314) 473-3626 (Voice) (314) 473-3330 (FAX) >>I AM ALSO INTEREDTED IN TRYING PETRO BOND SAND AND NEED A SOURCE FOR THAT >>TOO. It is great stuff! A friend (Hi Barry!) cast a nickel in aluminum using Petro Bond, and I can read the date on it. Petro Bond is made by the Baroid company, who I am sure can give you the name of a supplier in your area. Baroid Houston, TX (713) 987-4000 >>IT WOULD BE NICE IF I COULD FIND A SUPPLIER IN THE N. FLORIDA/ S. GEORGIA >>AREA. I HATE TO PAY FREIGHT ON 100 LB BAGS OF SAND ! A.P. Green has a warehouse in Jacksonville, but I don't have an address or phone number for it. Also, check your local phone book for "Foundry Supplies". -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca!nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca!dblain Tue Feb 1 12:48:16 EST 1994 Article: 3524 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca!nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca!dblain From: dblain@uoguelph.ca (Doug Blain) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Suggestions for Wrought Iron? Date: 28 Jan 1994 17:57:29 GMT Organization: University of Guelph Lines: 53 Message-ID: <2ibjm9$cmt@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca> References: <1994Jan26.171727.27090@nomina.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Ralph Snel (ralph@astolastro.lu.se) wrote: : I managed to get my hands on a fair amount of wrought iron, : to be used for making laminated and damascus blades (whenever : I get good enough...). I've tried forgewelding a bit of : wrought iron to what is called 1770 steel here in Sweden, it's : one of the more forgiving steels, about 0.7% carbon. : The weld took perfectly (using quartz sand), but when I : hardened the laminated blade in water the back of the (wedge : shaped) blade cracked irregularly in the center, along the : entire length of the blade (so much for water... oil next time). : Any suggestions/warnings that I should know of when using : wrought iron like this? I guess the cracking was the result : of different thermal expansion coefficients for WI and 1770. You might want to try the technique used by the Japanese when hardening a samurai sword. A paste is made of water, fine powered clay, ground charcoal and small amounts of abrasive material left over from the rough grinding of the blades (I assume that a small amount of fine sand will work). The paste is put onto the blade in a thichness approaching 1/4 inch. However the edge of the blade is scapped down to the bare metal (a band anywhere from 1/8-3/4 inch). For some of the specialized effects that the Japanese blades are famous for, scalloped edges, thin ribbons of paste running to the edge, etc, create the multitude of different patterns these blades exhibit. Once the paste dries, the entire blade is heated to cherry red (described as the color of the rising moon in August). Once it is at the right temperature the blade is thrust quickly into the water (the water is luke warm) and quenched. The paste acts as an insulator to lessen the hardening of the back. This keeps it flexible so it won't snap in battle. The edge is glass hard and in the mixed high carbon steel used in the blades, you get crystals of marsenite that are visible to the eye. The charcaol in the paste helps keep the carbon loss down. The small ribbons of paste (usually 1/8" apart and sometimes at angles, cause the hard edge to have softer areas that acts to compartmentalize the edge so that if a hard object is hit, the chipping will be contained within the softer areas. Once the blade has been cleaned up, some of the sword smiths follow up with a second heating to a much lower temperature to help relieve some of the internal stresses this process causes. Typically the Japanese start out with much higher carbon content in their steel, up to 7-8% and allow the repeated folding to reduce the carbon content to 4-5%. An excellent book on the process is called 'The Art of the Japanese Sword' by Knapp and Yoshinda. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Doug Blain Email: dblain@uoguelph.ca Manager, Computing Centre Services Phone: (519) 824-4120 x6475 Computing & Communications Services Fax: (519) 763-6143 University of Guelph Guelph, Ont., Canada. N1G 2W1 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!unixhub!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Tue Feb 1 12:48:17 EST 1994 Article: 3525 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!unixhub!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Re: Hardening Stainless Message-ID: <1994Jan28.185402.6987@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 18:54:02 GMT Lines: 22 docbaker@news.delphi.com (DOCBAKER@DELPHI.COM) writes: >danw@panix.com (Dan Wold) writes: > >>I've been making sidewalk ice-choppers. The blade is 1/8" 316 alloy >>stainless-steel. I grind a chisel edge onto the blade. Can someone advise me >>on how to harden/temper these blades to increase the durability? > >Unfortunately, you are using an alloy which is not heat treatable. Its >main claim to fame is its corrosion resistance. The only way I know to >harden it is by work hardening. If you bought 1/8" sheet, it is probably >already as hard as it is going to get. You could use a 400-series >stainless and still have good corrosion resistance, but heat treating it >to increase its hardness would be tricky without special equipment. It >could be done easily by a commercial heat treating shop. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, (like I had to ask :^) but isn't the 300 series stainless steel more corrosion resistant to SALT water than the 400 series? I seem to recall that the 300 series is used for marine applications.... -Eric From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab10.wwc.edu!johnric Tue Feb 1 12:48:18 EST 1994 Article: 3526 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab10.wwc.edu!johnric From: johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: knife making - novice Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 17:52:40 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: krh_krhlab10.wwc.edu In article bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) writes: >From: bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) >Subject: Re: knife making - novice >Date: 28 Jan 94 04:57:22 GMT >baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM wrote: > > >Don't expect to be able to sharpen a stainless blade, they don't. You can >grind/file or whatever forever until you get a razor sharp blade, breath on >it once and it's dull again. > >-- >A weapon + Help cut down on + bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) >in every hand = + Government Spending; + rwing!xpresso!bill Bothell, Wa. >Freedom + Resurect a Local + You listen when I xpresso, >on every side. + Militia near You! + I listen when uuxpresso....:-) I don't know where you get your stainless steel blades but I have many and they all hold edges just fine. Rick From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Tue Feb 1 12:48:19 EST 1994 Article: 3527 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: making a "dinner triangle" Message-ID: <2i6jtc$odq@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: 26 Jan 94 20:30:36 GMT References: <16F49A7A4S85.X1FT@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com In article X1FT@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU, X1FT@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Frank Tompkins) writes: > > > I'd like to make (for lack of the correct term) a "dinner triangle". > > 1) Will mild steel be appropriate for this application? (will it "ring" > once shaped properly)? What are "dinner triangles" usually made of (iron)? > Traditionally (e.g., in logging camps), the triangle was recycled from an old crow-, pry-, or other STEEL bar (soft iron doesn't ring as well). Or, you might want to uncoil an old spring (you'll need a forge or a VERY large fire to get it hot enough to straighten). It's also important to let it hang freely -- often a "loop" or "hook" was forged on the end to hang it from. JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!unixhub!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Tue Feb 1 12:48:20 EST 1994 Article: 3528 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!unixhub!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Re: Hardening Stainless Message-ID: <1994Jan28.193142.7643@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 19:31:42 GMT Lines: 22 >> >>>I've been making sidewalk ice-choppers. The blade is 1/8" 316 alloy >>>stainless-steel. I grind a chisel edge onto the blade. Can someone advise me >>>on how to harden/temper these blades to increase the durability? >> >>Unfortunately, you are using an alloy which is not heat treatable. Its >>main claim to fame is its corrosion resistance. The only way I know to >>harden it is by work hardening. If you bought 1/8" sheet, it is probably >>already as hard as it is going to get. You could use a 400-series >>stainless and still have good corrosion resistance, but heat treating it >>to increase its hardness would be tricky without special equipment. It >>could be done easily by a commercial heat treating shop. > >Someone correct me if I'm wrong, (like I had to ask :^) >but isn't the 300 series stainless steel more corrosion >resistant to SALT water than the 400 series? I seem to >recall that the 300 series is used for marine applications.... The reason I mentioned this, is because the user will probably expose the blades to SALT water since salt is generally used in melting ice. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!leftwich1.ucs.indiana.edu!leftwich Tue Feb 1 12:48:20 EST 1994 Article: 3529 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!leftwich1.ucs.indiana.edu!leftwich From: Brad Leftwich Subject: Nickel plating Message-ID: X-Xxmessage-Id: X-Xxdate: Fri, 28 Jan 94 22:10:59 GMT Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: leftwich1.ucs.indiana.edu Organization: Indiana University X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d20 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 22:00:33 GMT Lines: 7 This has probably been discussed here before, but I'm new to this group. I'm restoring an old banjo that has some nickel plated hardware, but most of the plating has worn off over the years. Is there a simple way to replate these parts? --Brad Leftwich leftwich@indiana.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf Tue Feb 1 12:48:21 EST 1994 Article: 3530 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!cdsmail!a2.cim.cdc.com!jaf From: jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) Subject: Re: knife making - novice Organization: Control Data Systems Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 20:51:43 GMT Message-ID: References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> Sender: usenet@cdsmail.cdc.com (News Poster) Lines: 35 In article , bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) writes: |> baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM wrote: |> |> > My son has recently decided to try making knives (based on an article |> > he saw in Popular Mechanics). |> > I suggested that he start by working on old knives to get some |> > experience (cleaning the blade, putting a new handle on the knife, etc) |> > first. Could anyone suggest any good books (or supply catalogs) for |> > him to get? |> > One other thing, he has an old knife that he wants to work on, it was |> > a stainless steel blade and has a bit of corrosion and dullness to it. |> > What is the correct way to restore the blade? |> |> > thanks, |> |> > james |> |> Don't expect to be able to sharpen a stainless blade, they don't. You can |> grind/file or whatever forever until you get a razor sharp blade, breath on |> it once and it's dull again. |> An interesting statement. I haven't seen this. More importantly, check out the book "The Razor Edge Guide to Sharpening". This is from a company that sells sharpening tools and does sharpening for meat processing companies. They did side by side tests in which operators were given two essentially the same knives, except that one was a stainless alloy. They had both just been sharpened identically. The operators were just told to try them both and give feedback on the performance of the two knives. The stainless knives held their edges better and were preferred by all operators. If you have counterexamples that would be great. The writers noted that the "won't hold an edge" impression of stainless was probably formed when stainless alloys were first made available, and that though the situation has changed, the belief hasn't. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!sorlin Tue Feb 1 12:48:22 EST 1994 Article: 3531 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!sorlin From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Date: 28 Jan 1994 23:08:01 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 40 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2ic5sh$9aj@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: beauty.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4288 rec.autos.tech:52625 rec.crafts.metalworking:3531 In article <759724858snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk>, Andy Dingley wrote: >In article > bmaccion@promus.com "Bob Maccione" writes: >> I've got a hole in the floor of my 55 Olds and would like to attack the >> welding of it myself. > >No question about it, get a mig. > >Oxy/acetylene ? Great fun, but sloooowwww........ In the UK, the costs of fun? I would never think of Oxygen/acetylene welding as fun... nerve racking is more like it. > >Tig ? Great thing to have around, but expensive to buy. For simple bodywork, >I'd be hard-pressed to think of any advantage over mig. Oh, you seem to know a lot about tigs obviously. I must say that the TIG welder is my favorite. While it does cost more than others, and it requires Argon gas, and a contant water/ coolant supply, the welds come out far superior with less talent than many other welders. And it is the most versatile welder I have used (not most mobile though!) I wouldn't even want to think about welding tubing, or aluminum with anything else. Quite simply, there is nothing intimidating about a TIG welder. You control the "juice" at the touch of a peddle with your foot, and it produces a small beam of light that iluminates the area around where you are working. No blowing holes through things, if you're careful. Oh well, to each his own. Anyways, the overwhelming response for auto work seems to be in favor of mig. steve From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!morrow.stanford.edu!ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu!swanson Tue Feb 1 12:48:23 EST 1994 Article: 3532 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!morrow.stanford.edu!ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu!swanson From: swanson@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Hardening Stainless Date: 28 Jan 94 16:07:56 -0800 Organization: SSRL, Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Lab Lines: 31 Message-ID: <1994Jan28.160756.1@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> References: <1994Jan28.193142.7643@cascade.Stanford.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu In article <1994Jan28.193142.7643@cascade.Stanford.EDU>, eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes: >>> >>>>I've been making sidewalk ice-choppers. The blade is 1/8" 316 alloy >>>>stainless-steel. I grind a chisel edge onto the blade. Can someone advise me >>>>on how to harden/temper these blades to increase the durability? >>> >>>Unfortunately, you are using an alloy which is not heat treatable. Its >>>main claim to fame is its corrosion resistance. The only way I know to >>>harden it is by work hardening. If you bought 1/8" sheet, it is probably >>>already as hard as it is going to get. You could use a 400-series >>>stainless and still have good corrosion resistance, but heat treating it >>>to increase its hardness would be tricky without special equipment. It >>>could be done easily by a commercial heat treating shop. >> >>Someone correct me if I'm wrong, (like I had to ask :^) >>but isn't the 300 series stainless steel more corrosion >>resistant to SALT water than the 400 series? I seem to >>recall that the 300 series is used for marine applications.... > > The reason I mentioned this, is because the user will probably expose > the blades to SALT water since salt is generally used in melting ice. > > Yes it is true the heat treatable stainless steels do not have the corrosion resistence of the 300 series but the 300 series is not heat treatable. You could use 400 series however you could also use 17-4 ph or 15-5 ph. These two stainless steels are much easier to heat treat than 400 SS. 17-4 ph ( ph stands for precipitation hardening ) is easily heat treated by heating to 900 deg. for one hour then air cool. About the same process for 15-5. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Tue Feb 1 12:48:25 EST 1994 Article: 3533 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: knife making - novice References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 13 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 23:12:10 +0000 Message-ID: <759798730snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article johnric@saturn.wwc.edu "RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON" writes: > I don't know where you get your stainless steel blades but I have > many and they all hold edges just fine. "fine" is a relative measure. I think stainless blades are fine too. OTOH, they're definitely not as good/wonderful/superlative/perfect 8-) as a blade in something like 01 high carbon steel. Try abusing the blade, hitting it against animal bone or steel nails. The stainless will pick up dents and dings far more easily. Andy Dingley Codesmiths of Newcastle dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!news.cic.net!destroyer!fmsrl7!slee01.srl.ford.com!eccdb1.pms.ford.com!iao.ford.com!anderson Tue Feb 1 12:48:25 EST 1994 Article: 3534 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!news.cic.net!destroyer!fmsrl7!slee01.srl.ford.com!eccdb1.pms.ford.com!iao.ford.com!anderson From: anderson@iao.ford.com (John Anderson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Silversmithing Stakes Date: 29 Jan 1994 00:42:41 GMT Organization: Ford Motor Company Lines: 36 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2icbe1INN99v@eccdb1.pms.ford.com> References: <2i4551$rfj@usenet.rpi.edu> Reply-To: janders3@asc013.ets.ford.com NNTP-Posting-Host: asc100.ets.ford.com In article <2i4551$rfj@usenet.rpi.edu>, edgarm@cii3116-22.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) writes: =Greetings, =I would like to make a copy of a set of colonial sugar tongs. They =are about six inches long and have a small spoon shape at the end =to grab lumps of sugar. I have seen a stakes (I hope I have this =right, the thing that you put in the anvil used to form a particular shape) =in the tool catalogs for $16 to $25 for spoons and $100 and up for =larger shapes. These prices are more than I'd like to pay. = =Now my questions, =1. What type of steel should be used for a homemade stake? =2. Should it be hardened? = =Thanks netland. =Marc Edgar =edgarm@rpi.edu = I bought a big ( 24 oz.? ) ball peen hammer at a flea market for $3.00 I rented about 4 videos, and sat down with the hammer, file, 220 - 600 grit sand paper, a rag, tripoli, and red rouge, and shaped and polished both faces. I put the hammer in a vise, and it makes a great stake. I have raised several brass containers on it with only minor touch ups. Just make sure what you're working is clean ( oxide if very hard and will damage the face ) and don't hit it with steel. John -- janders3@asc013.ets.ford.com ========================================================== The ones whom you should try to get even with are the ones who have helped you. ========================================================== From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!news.cic.net!destroyer!fmsrl7!slee01.srl.ford.com!eccdb1.pms.ford.com!iao.ford.com!anderson Tue Feb 1 12:48:26 EST 1994 Article: 3535 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!news.cic.net!destroyer!fmsrl7!slee01.srl.ford.com!eccdb1.pms.ford.com!iao.ford.com!anderson From: anderson@iao.ford.com (John Anderson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: cire perdu, the lost wax method Date: 29 Jan 1994 00:49:14 GMT Organization: Ford Motor Company Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2icbqaINN99v@eccdb1.pms.ford.com> References: Reply-To: janders3@asc013.ets.ford.com NNTP-Posting-Host: asc100.ets.ford.com In article , v130kmzk@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Daniel J Stern) writes: = =I am thinking of making several small statues, etc using the lost wax method =and silver, but I have no way of melting it, as far as I know. Without the =benefit of a furnace, is there any other way to melt silver? Perhaps a =soldering torch, or over hot coals? =____________________________________________________________________________ = = I don't know what "small" means, but I've always used an oxy-acetylene torch and a ceramic crucible to cast silver jewelry. John -- janders3@asc013.ets.ford.com ========================================================== The ones whom you should try to get even with are the ones who have helped you. ========================================================== From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!slip2-31.acs.ohio-state.edu!user Tue Feb 1 12:48:27 EST 1994 Article: 3536 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!slip2-31.acs.ohio-state.edu!user From: ujonsson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ulf Jonsson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: BA-Taps and Dies? Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 29 Jan 1994 02:46:57 GMT Organization: Ohio State University Lines: 7 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: slip2-31.acs.ohio-state.edu I would like to buy a set of BA-taps and dies for building a Stuart Viktoria. I have a few since a 10-V project. Is there any one with some to sell or with knowledge of where to get them for a descent price? Please reply by E-Mail. Ulf From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!convex!convex!news.oc.com!utacfd.uta.edu!rwsys!kf5iw!cmptrc!neal Tue Feb 1 12:48:28 EST 1994 Article: 3537 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!convex!convex!news.oc.com!utacfd.uta.edu!rwsys!kf5iw!cmptrc!neal From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard) Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 21:08:33 GMT Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX Lines: 29 In article <1427.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes: > I'll let you in on another secret. This newsgroup is full of people >who own thousands of dollars worth of equipment. Lots of them will >spend an hour or more using this equipment to make something they could >buy at the hardware store for a dollar. Now, why would they do that, >instead of donating that money to clean up the Environment? If you have ^^^^^^^^^^^ >to ask, you'll never understand. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ;-) obMetal&Motos>> Denizens understand. > >======================================================================= >can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation... >ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT >(Nazareth) XJ900 TURBO at 15psi DoD# 978 xKotFAQ >======================================================================= peace, Neal ========================================================================= Neal Howard neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org CompuTrac,Inc. (Richardson,TX) |355033| Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, not CompuTrac's. DoD #686 "Fuzzy-Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy-Wuzzy had no hair. '91 XLH-1200 If Fuzzy-Wuzzy had no hair then Fuzzy-Wuzzy wasn't fuzzy, was he?" ========================================================================= From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Tue Feb 1 12:48:29 EST 1994 Article: 3538 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Blackening steel Message-ID: <1994Jan29.063302.12798@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: <1994Jan28.010153.15905@trl.oz.au> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 06:33:02 GMT Lines: 13 handers@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (Howard Anders) writes: : Many tks to all those who have replied to this thread. : One of the original replies talked about the nitrate blueing process, : and the prkerizing process. Just wondering are these the same? No, they are not. : Also the nitrate process used molten Potassium Nitrate as the active agent. : Can Sodium Nitrate be used instead? Tks. Probably - but why? Potassium Nitrate is easily available. Bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Tue Feb 1 12:48:30 EST 1994 Article: 3539 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: knife making - novice Message-ID: <1994Jan29.061307.12371@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 06:13:07 GMT Lines: 12 bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) writes: : : Don't expect to be able to sharpen a stainless blade, they don't. You can : grind/file or whatever forever until you get a razor sharp blade, breath on : it once and it's dull again. I don't know what blades you have experience with, but I have several stainless lockback knives. They all keep a very good and razor sharp edge - until I do something foolish like cutting steel staples or opening cans. Bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Tue Feb 1 12:48:31 EST 1994 Article: 3540 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: cire perdu, the lost wax method Message-ID: <1994Jan29.062648.12440@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: <19940126.22081563.walkermm@delphi.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 06:26:48 GMT Lines: 19 WALKERMM@delphi.com writes: : I don't recommend trying to melt the silver yourself. You may want to take : your project to a jeweler or a foundry (depending on the size of the statues) : and have them do the casting for you. Any other method, such as the ones you : suggested, could pollute the silver in the casting process. Bah. I have cast multiple ounce batches of silver, using a simple crucible heated by a oxyacetylene torch. There was not chance of contaminating the silver - fluxing eliminated the possibility of oxidation. It is wise to start out very small - around an ounce - until you get used to the technique. Don't make the casting too small, or you will have to preheat the mold to get good detail. The silver will shrink quite a bit, make sure you have an adequate sprue, and air bleeds - if necessary. Read a good jewelry book on casting for details on the proper procedures. Bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Tue Feb 1 12:48:31 EST 1994 Article: 3541 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Distribution: na References: <2ic5sh$9aj@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 15 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 19:23:39 +0000 Message-ID: <759871419snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4301 rec.autos.tech:52673 rec.crafts.metalworking:3541 sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu "Steven J Orlin" writes: > Quite simply, there is nothing intimidating about a TIG welder. The price is intimidating. For 200 UK pounds, you can buy a brand new mig welder and enough supplies to repair the average car. You're looking at 400 pounds *at least* before you get a reasonable second-hand tig welder, then have to keep it fed and watered. Tig is wonderful, but mig will get *this* job done just as well. When both methods are "point and click" welding, then save the money. -- Andy Dingley Codesmiths of Newcastle dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk Save the whales ! Collect the whole set From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!samba.oit.unc.edu!not-for-mail Tue Feb 1 12:48:32 EST 1994 Article: 3542 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!samba.oit.unc.edu!not-for-mail From: Enrique.Vega@launchpad.unc.edu (Enrique Vega) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Artist Blacksmith Association of North Ameriaca & Internet Date: 30 Jan 1994 07:28:47 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service If you would like to get more information about this organization, send Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2ifnjf$76b@samba.oit.unc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lambada.oit.unc.edu I can also be reached by phone at 919-362-0543. The ABANA office address is: Janelle Gilbert Franklin Abana Executive Secretary PO Box 1181 Nashville, IN 47448 Phone: (812) 988-6919 I am providing this information so that ANYONE interested in the metalcrafts can establish a link to Blacksmithing. This is all new to me, so excuse me for not understanding:) -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!martha.washcoll.edu!cullen19.washcoll.edu!user Tue Feb 1 12:48:33 EST 1994 Article: 3543 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!martha.washcoll.edu!cullen19.washcoll.edu!user From: john_wagner@washcoll.edu (John Wagner) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Copper oxidation Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 30 Jan 1994 04:52:50 GMT Organization: Washington College Lines: 3 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: cullen19.washcoll.edu I am making an indoor fountain out of copper tubing and sheet copper flashing material. how can I make the copper green? Muriatic acid perhaps? Any suggestions? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!vnet.IBM.COM Tue Feb 1 12:48:34 EST 1994 Article: 3544 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!vnet.IBM.COM From: jcurran@vnet.IBM.COM (Jim Curran (919 254-0128 /444-)) Message-ID: <19940130.095837.930@almaden.ibm.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 12:56:42 EST Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Celtic designed rings? Lines: 6 I'm in search of a retailer of jewellery that's Celtic-inspired. Can anyone out there help me? Thanks, Jim From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail Tue Feb 1 12:48:36 EST 1994 Article: 3545 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail From: danw@panix.com (Dan Wold) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Electo-Plating Date: 30 Jan 1994 13:55:59 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 27 Message-ID: <2igvrv$hqh@panix2.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com I'm thinking of trying to do electro-plating in my shop (on small scale). Would it be possible to use my DC welding machine as a power-supply? I'm looking for info on: > Tank design (will stainless steel work?) > Chemicals necessary > Voltage, current and polarity > Safety precautions > Cleaning and prep-work routines Also, I could use recommendations of books and other sources of info on this topic. Thanks, Dan ======================================================================= Daniel Wold Sysop: "WORLD CITIZEN" BBS 239 City Island Avenue 718-885-2346 24 hours 14.4kbaud City Island, Bronx, NY 10464 Internet: danw@panix.com Fidonet: Daniel.Wold@1:2603/503 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!microsoft!wingnut!stevenj Tue Feb 1 12:48:37 EST 1994 Article: 3546 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!microsoft!wingnut!stevenj From: stevenj@microsoft.com (Steven Johnson) Subject: Information on treadle machines Organization: Microsoft Corp. Message-ID: Keywords: treadle Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 17:19:44 GMT Lines: 10 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:31881 rec.crafts.metalworking:3546 I'm interested in the history of old treadle-powered machinery (including scroll saws, lathes, sewing machines, tablesaws, drills, etc. etc.). However, I haven't been able to find a good book or information source on the companies that made these machines, histories of their inventors, or reprints from companies catalogs that describe these machines. I know there are hundreds (or at least dozens) of these types of books for planemakers --isn't there something similar for these machines? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Tue Feb 1 12:48:37 EST 1994 Article: 3547 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Hydraulic tracer lathe Message-ID: <2ibs57$gqg@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: 28 Jan 94 20:21:59 GMT References: <19940126.20075834.jrbeall@delphi.com> Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com In article jrbeall@delphi.com, Jerrold Beall () writes: > I am looking for a used tracer lathe....Particularly Myford Mini-Kop > or Harrison. > > J.R.Beall.....pls respond by E Mail if you have info....Thanks I'd be more interested if anyone have ever BUILT a tracer attachment? From scrap? JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!not-for-mail Tue Feb 1 12:48:38 EST 1994 Article: 3548 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!not-for-mail From: woody@libre.com (Woody Harper) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.guns Subject: Re: Gatling Gun plans from RG-G Inc. Date: 30 Jan 1994 19:20:53 -0500 Organization: Evergreen Communications Lines: 18 Sender: magnum@cs.umd.edu Approved: gun-control@cs.umd.edu Message-ID: <2ign18$d91@pinyon.libre.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: xring.cs.umd.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3548 rec.guns:55500 Marius Johnston (mariusj@netcom.com) wrote: : I read in Shotgun News: : SKS GATLING GUN : Uses six SKS rifles (without stocks) : No modification to rifles I saw one of these at a recent gun show. It was pretty cool. You remove the stocks from the SKS's and mount them on the revolving frame. Load the rifles, grab the hand crank and blast away! It looks kind of silly, but the concept is sound and the mechanics of the device appear to be reliable. -- ======================================== I Find Things That Make Me Go!!!! Sysop: Memory Alpha BBS +1 602 864 6653 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Tue Feb 1 12:48:39 EST 1994 Article: 3549 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Message-ID: <1552.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 30 Jan 94 17:28:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 16 -> Be very careful where you decide to use braze on a car. It cracks -> very easily, and shouldn't be used in any area which absorbs -> vibrations. -> It is also not as strong as weld. -> -> I've only had bad experiences with braze --except making lanterns :) Something's wrong with your technique. At least half of the British motorcycles ever made had their frames brazed together - Norton, Triumph, BSA, and Royal Enfield all did it - back fifty years ago the US Crosley car company built engine blocks by brazing together pieces - brazing is also used to hold together some modern tube-frame racing cars. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Tue Feb 1 12:48:40 EST 1994 Article: 3550 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Metalworking questions (for a fantasy novel) Date: 31 Jan 1994 03:26:12 GMT Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2ihtokINNm31@lynx.unm.edu> References: <2hlci5$kp2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <2hmaga$k5r@slab.mtholyoke.edu> <759705123snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: algodones.unm.edu > Not a problem here. Assuming we're talking about copper/heretical bronze > metallurgy, then a pre-bronze age society is pretty primitive. At that time, > all (nearly all ? - go on, prove me wrong 8-) ) metals would have been found > in their native form as "dendritic" copper, rather than smelted from ores. > This also fits nicely with the religious theme. Of course there isn't much > of this stuff around, and even less of it left today, but you can still see > small pieces in craft/lapidary shops - the greenish brown tree-like > structures. True, but as I understand it... the raw copper, silver, etc... is often found with minor impurities -- ie. alloys. However, there was no way for the smith to know that this was a natural alloy... they only knew that the coper from place X and the steel from place Y were superiour for some reason -- the spirit of the place maybe. They had no way of knowing. To verify this, you can check some of the assays of ancient chineese copper and japanese steel. I have not kept references, however I may have a couple at home... EBo -- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!udel!pacs.sunbelt.net!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Tue Feb 1 12:48:41 EST 1994 Article: 3551 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!udel!pacs.sunbelt.net!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Message-ID: <2ii572INNm31@lynx.unm.edu> From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Date: 31 Jan 1994 05:33:22 GMT Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu References: Distribution: world Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Keywords: treadle NNTP-Posting-Host: algodones.unm.edu Lines: 24 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:31892 rec.crafts.metalworking:3551 > I'm interested in the history of old treadle-powered machinery > (including scroll saws, lathes, sewing machines, tablesaws, drills, > etc. etc.). However, I haven't been able to find a good book or > information source on the companies that made these machines, histories > of their inventors, or reprints from companies catalogs that describe > these machines. I know there are hundreds (or at least dozens) of these > types of books for planemakers --isn't there something similar for > these machines? Some people think this is a bit odd, but there is appearantly still a bit of treadle equiptment being made... Years ago I was getting my girlfriends sewing machine fixed. On the sales floor was the latest models available in treadle sewing machines. Mind you this was only back in 1985, NOT 1895. It sure supprised me! I too would be interested in the information too -- including references to the "hundreds (or at least dozens) of these types of books for planemakers" Thanks EBo -- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!mcdphx!courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com!paul Tue Feb 1 12:48:42 EST 1994 Article: 3552 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!mcdphx!courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com!paul From: paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Paul Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: comments on Rudy Kouhoupt's lathe video Date: 29 Jan 1994 04:12:06 GMT Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Urbana Design Center Lines: 22 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2icnmm$iup@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> References: <1994Jan27.194532.3070@ole.cdac.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: predator.urbana.mcd.mot.com grant@neptune.cdac.com (Grant Erwin) writes: >I recently saw this video in the Seattle Public Library, and thought >I'd check it out. I was really disappointed. The picture quality was >terrible, the editing was completely amateurish, and the technical >content was very minimal. The best feature of this video is Rudy's >old South Bend Model B, which is in really good shape. >But I would really seriously think twice before ordering this video >from HSM or anywhere else. >Grant Erwin >********* Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one ********** Thanks for the warning. Does anyone know anything about his milling video? I'm about 1 day away from ordering it. ------ Paul Jones, Motorola MCG paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com 1101 E. University Ave. Voice: (217) 384-8529 Urbana, IL 61801, USA FAX: (217) 384-8550 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!destroyer!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!sol!rborden Tue Feb 1 12:48:43 EST 1994 Article: 3553 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!destroyer!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!sol!rborden From: rborden@sol.UVic.CA (Ross Borden) Subject: Re: knife making - novice Message-ID: <1994Jan31.081556.898@sol.UVic.CA> Sender: news@sol.UVic.CA Nntp-Posting-Host: sol.uvic.ca Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria B.C. CANADA References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 08:15:56 GMT Lines: 25 In article bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) writes: >baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM wrote: > >> My son has recently decided to try making knives (based on an article >> he saw in Popular Mechanics). >> I suggested that he start by working on old knives to get some >> experience (cleaning the blade, putting a new handle on the knife, etc) >> first. Could anyone suggest any good books (or supply catalogs) for >> him to get? >> One other thing, he has an old knife that he wants to work on, it was >> a stainless steel blade and has a bit of corrosion and dullness to it. >> What is the correct way to restore the blade? > >> thanks, > >> james > >Don't expect to be able to sharpen a stainless blade, they don't. You can >grind/file or whatever forever until you get a razor sharp blade, breath on >it once and it's dull again. > That depends entirely on the type of stainless it is. There are some mighty tough alloys out there. rborden@sol.uvic.ca From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Tue Feb 1 12:48:44 EST 1994 Article: 3554 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Copper oxidation Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 06:13:02 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: Lines: 19 john_wagner@washcoll.edu (John Wagner) writes: >I am making an indoor fountain out of copper tubing and sheet copper >flashing material. how can I make the copper green? Muriatic acid perhaps? >Any suggestions? Unless you want to waste a lot of time experimenting and then still possibly not get a coating that will stay green, use a commercial patina made for that purpose. We use it in stained glass work. I'm sure it is available from anywhere that sells sculpture or architectural supplies. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com Performance Engineering Magazine. "Dr. Kevorkian, you're needed in the Oval Office." From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!ra!leia.nrl.navy.mil!ssgm Tue Feb 1 12:48:45 EST 1994 Article: 3555 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!ra!leia.nrl.navy.mil!ssgm From: ssgm@leia.nrl.navy.mil (Tom Dugan) Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Message-ID: Keywords: treadle Sender: ssgm@leia.nrl.navy.mil (SSGM) Organization: Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC References: <2ii572INNm31@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 16:01:10 GMT Lines: 39 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:31918 rec.crafts.metalworking:3555 In article <2ii572INNm31@lynx.unm.edu>, ebo@algodones.unm.edu () writes: |> > I'm interested in the history of old treadle-powered machinery |> > (including scroll saws, lathes, sewing machines, tablesaws, drills, |> > etc. etc.). However, I haven't been able to find a good book or |> > information source on the companies that made these machines, histories |> > of their inventors, or reprints from companies catalogs that describe |> > these machines. I know there are hundreds (or at least dozens) of these |> > types of books for planemakers --isn't there something similar for |> > these machines? |> |> |> Some people think this is a bit odd, but there is appearantly |> still a bit of treadle equiptment being made... Years ago I |> was getting my girlfriends sewing machine fixed. On the sales |> floor was the latest models available in treadle sewing machines. |> Mind you this was only back in 1985, NOT 1895. It sure supprised |> me! |> |> I too would be interested in the information too -- including |> references to the "hundreds (or at least dozens) of these |> types of books for planemakers" |> |> Thanks |> |> EBo -- As a woodworker lurking in this group, I'm also interested in info on treadle machines - wood lathes in particular. Here's one question I have: What's a good mid-tech bearing for the live centers (mid-tech = 19th century) so I can reproduce the technology? What's a good source for these bearings? As far as the reference to books for planemakers, try Jim Kingshott's book title is (?) Making Hand Tools (?). For reference books ON planemakers, try the Astragal Press or Early American Industries Assn (EAIA). There are numerous books on 18th and 19th century planes. -- Tom Dugan - Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC ssgm@leia.nrl.navy.mil From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj Tue Feb 1 12:48:48 EST 1994 Article: 3556 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!lhdsy1!rcj From: rcj@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (R.C. Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: cire perdu, the lost wax method Message-ID: <15619@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> Date: 31 Jan 94 15:32:20 GMT References: Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research Co., La Habra, CA Lines: 7 We use an oxyacetelene torch. -- |___________________________________________________________________| >>| Dik Jones, Earth Model Interpretation Internet: rcj@Chevron.com | | Chevron Petroleum Technology Company. Tel: (310) 694-7056 | | La Habra, California 90633-0446 Fax: (310) 694-7063 | From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!shaw Tue Feb 1 12:48:50 EST 1994 Article: 3557 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!shaw From: shaw@fc.hp.com (Shaw Moldauer) Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Sender: news@fc.hp.com (news daemon) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 16:47:47 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: hpshaw.fc.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Followup-To: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Lines: 25 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:31925 rec.crafts.metalworking:3557 Steven Johnson (stevenj@microsoft.com) wrote: : I'm interested in the history of old treadle-powered machinery : (including scroll saws, lathes, sewing machines, tablesaws, drills, : etc. etc.). However, I haven't been able to find a good book or : information source on the companies that made these machines, histories : of their inventors, or reprints from companies catalogs that describe : these machines. I know there are hundreds (or at least dozens) of these : types of books for planemakers --isn't there something similar for : these machines? I buy old books at garage sales. One of the 1930's handyman style books has an article on converting your old treadle sewing machine into a scroll saw. I plan to, whenever I get more shop space, convert an old treadle. I don't have a scoll saw, but do have the treadle. If a small number of people are interested, I might send the plans out.... -Shaw p.s. The old handyman and woodworkinh books have a wealth of information. I am continually surprized when an idea is presented as "new" in FWW or some mag which is in some of my old books. Also, I rarely pay more than 5-10 cents for a book (much cheaper than Rodale press) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!pagesat.net!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen Tue Feb 1 12:48:51 EST 1994 Article: 3558 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!pagesat.net!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Stainless Steel cleaning/pitting Message-ID: Sender: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 17:23:16 GMT Lines: 15 Recent discussions about homebrewing have brought up this myth(?) to be de-bunked. Someone has said that 304SS or 316SS can be pitted by leaving it in contact with bleach (sodium hypochlorite). It is also said that CTSP (chlorinated trisodium phosphate), while being a better cleaner, will not pit 304SS or 316SS. There is no doubt about the sanitization properties of either of these. Can someone (a metallurgist hopefully) shed light on this subject with real facts? thanks, dion -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!pagesat.net!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen Tue Feb 1 12:48:52 EST 1994 Article: 3559 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!pagesat.net!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Stainless Steel cleaning/pitting Message-ID: Sender: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 17:31:14 GMT Lines: 15 Recent discussions about homebrewing have brought up this myth(?) to be de-bunked. Someone has said that 304SS or 316SS can be pitted by leaving it in contact with bleach (sodium hypochlorite). It is also said that CTSP (chlorinated trisodium phosphate), while being a better cleaner, will not pit 304SS or 316SS. There is no doubt about the sanitization properties of either of these. Can someone (a metallurgist hopefully) shed light on this subject with real facts? thanks, dion -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab03.wwc.edu!johnric Tue Feb 1 12:48:53 EST 1994 Article: 3560 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab03.wwc.edu!johnric From: johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 17:49:44 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 55 Message-ID: References: <2ii572INNm31@lynx.unm.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: krh_krhlab03.wwc.edu Keywords: treadle Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:31932 rec.crafts.metalworking:3560 In article ssgm@leia.nrl.navy.mil (Tom Dugan) writes: >From: ssgm@leia.nrl.navy.mil (Tom Dugan) >Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines >Keywords: treadle >Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 16:01:10 GMT >In article <2ii572INNm31@lynx.unm.edu>, ebo@algodones.unm.edu () writes: >|> > I'm interested in the history of old treadle-powered machinery >|> > (including scroll saws, lathes, sewing machines, tablesaws, drills, >|> > etc. etc.). However, I haven't been able to find a good book or >|> > information source on the companies that made these machines, histories >|> > of their inventors, or reprints from companies catalogs that describe >|> > these machines. I know there are hundreds (or at least dozens) of these >|> > types of books for planemakers --isn't there something similar for >|> > these machines? >|> >|> >|> Some people think this is a bit odd, but there is appearantly >|> still a bit of treadle equiptment being made... Years ago I >|> was getting my girlfriends sewing machine fixed. On the sales >|> floor was the latest models available in treadle sewing machines. >|> Mind you this was only back in 1985, NOT 1895. It sure supprised >|> me! >|> >|> I too would be interested in the information too -- including >|> references to the "hundreds (or at least dozens) of these >|> types of books for planemakers" >|> >|> Thanks >|> >|> EBo -- > >As a woodworker lurking in this group, I'm also interested in info on treadle >machines - wood lathes in particular. Here's one question I have: What's a good >mid-tech bearing for the live centers (mid-tech = 19th century) so I can >reproduce the technology? What's a good source for these bearings? > >As far as the reference to books for planemakers, try Jim Kingshott's book >title is (?) Making Hand Tools (?). > >For reference books ON planemakers, try the Astragal Press or Early American >Industries Assn (EAIA). There are numerous books on 18th and 19th century >planes. >-- >Tom Dugan - Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC ssgm@leia.nrl.navy.mil If you've ever watched "The Woodwrights Shop" on PBS you might have seen his two treadle powered lathes. Both of these lathes are detailed in one of his books (the titles of which escape me at the moment but something about "The Woodwritght's shop" ;-)). As for bearing material I beleive that babbit metal was the technology of the age. I beleive that this is a fairly easy melting metal ( 600-900 degrees) with which you can cast many bearings and bushings. Babbit metal is availble from Centaur Forge. Rick From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Tue Feb 1 12:48:54 EST 1994 Article: 3561 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Message-ID: <1994Jan31.180958.14879@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 18:09:58 GMT Lines: 16 dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes: > > At least half of the British motorcycles ever made had their frames >brazed together - Norton, Triumph, BSA, and Royal Enfield all did it - >back fifty years ago the US Crosley car company built engine blocks by >brazing together pieces - brazing is also used to hold together some >modern tube-frame racing cars. Why would race cars used brazed frames when there are stronger methods of attachment? I didn't know they did this. Generally, cost is of little consequence to these folks, right? Brazing wouldn't be any lighter, either- Would it? -Eric From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!uknet!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Tue Feb 1 12:48:55 EST 1994 Article: 3562 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!uknet!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Distribution: world References: <1552.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 11 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 13:34:11 +0000 Message-ID: <760023251snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <1552.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us "Dave Williams" writes: > At least half of the British motorcycles ever made had their frames > brazed together True, but there is a big difference between a brazed joint in butted & lugged tube, and one in thin sheet steel. I wouldn't rely on brazed joints in car bodywork, although I *might* use it to fill holes between gas tack welds. -- Andy Dingley Codesmiths of Newcastle dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry Tue Feb 1 12:48:56 EST 1994 Article: 3563 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Message-ID: <1994Jan31.223559.27920@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> Sender: nobody@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com (Nobody - UID must be 99999) Nntp-Posting-Host: hpcvxhp.cv.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.9] References: <1994Jan31.180958.14879@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 22:35:59 GMT Lines: 12 Eric Perozziello (eap@everest.Stanford.EDU) wrote: : Why would race cars used brazed frames when there are stronger : methods of attachment? For one thing, at-track repairs can be made more easily (it's easier to ensure the availability of a torch than a TIG). Also, the strength of the joint doesn't matter as long as it's stronger than the base material. A well designed and brazed joint will be significantly stronger than the material being brazed. Also, cost is sometimes a concern in racing vehicles, as not all racers have infinite budgets. Harry Phinney harry@cv.hp.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Tue Feb 1 12:48:57 EST 1994 Article: 3564 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Race car frames (was: Re: Welder choice..) Organization: AT&T Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 22:24:26 GMT Message-ID: References: <1994Jan31.180958.14879@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Lines: 41 >From article <1994Jan31.180958.14879@cascade.Stanford.EDU>, by eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello): > dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes: >> >> At least half of the British motorcycles ever made had their frames >>brazed together - Norton, Triumph, BSA, and Royal Enfield all did it - >>back fifty years ago the US Crosley car company built engine blocks by >>brazing together pieces - brazing is also used to hold together some >>modern tube-frame racing cars. > > Why would race cars used brazed frames when there are stronger > methods of attachment? I didn't know they did this. Generally, > cost is of little consequence to these folks, right? Brazing > wouldn't be any lighter, either- Would it? > I can't speak for "modern" tube frame race cars, but standard practice for road racing cars with tube frames in the 1960's and 1970's (such as formula fords, sports racers, etc.) was thin wall mild steel tubing, in the range of 3/4"-1 1/4" diameter by .047 - .062" wall, joined by a process called "nickel-bronze welding". The latter is a high nickel content brazing rod, applied with an oxyacetyline torch, with minimum heat so a bead is created, rather than a full flow typical of ordinary brazing. I believe that it is stronger than simple brazing. The common alternative of the era was TIG-welded high alloy "chrome- moly" steel, I think typically 4130. This latter construction called for normalizing the entire frame after assembly, which wasn't feasible in most small race shops. British suppliers, and US suppliers of cars sold to markets typically dominated by British suppliers (i.e. the purpose-built road-racing car market) tneded to use the nickel-bronze welding. I believe that sprint cars and the like were more likely to use alloy frames. I don't know why TIG (or MIG) welded mild steel frames were not more common. At least in the nickel-bronze on mild steel construction, there were no lugs of any kind. The tubing (typically round, but sometimes square or rectangular) was carefully fitted to to minimize any gap at the joint prior to the brazing. One of the benefits of the nickel-bronze approach may have been that the bead provided a larger surface area, and acted a bit like a small lug. Frank Kerfoot fwkhomxc.att.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!unix.sri.com!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Tue Feb 1 12:48:58 EST 1994 Article: 3565 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.machines.misc,alt.hotrod Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!unix.sri.com!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Crankshaft Keyway Repair Complete: SUMMARY Message-ID: <1994Jan31.220811.18991@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Originator: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 22:08:11 GMT Lines: 198 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.tech:52839 rec.crafts.metalworking:3565 alt.machines.misc:3 alt.hotrod:1914 SUMMARY OF CRANKSHAFT KEYWAY REPAIR - Thanks to all who responded! Now that the repair is complete, I thought I'd share the experience with you all, and thank everyone who responded (list of folks at the end- Thanks Folks!) ******************************************************************* THE PROBLEM: A week or so ago I posted the problem. A Chevy truck was brought to me with a bad vibration that seemed to go away when the (auto) trans was dropped into gear. The engine is a 454 cu. in. engine (externally balanced by the harmonic balancer) The previous mechanic wanted to replace the torque converter for $500. The owner then handed the truck to me. Upon digging in, I found that the harmonic balancer was not in the right position. The woodruff key, and keyways in the balancer and crankshaft were badly damaged. Someone had hammered the balancer onto the crank, literally forging the key into the crank and balancer. Fortunately, the damage is limited to one side of the keyway on the crankshaft. Of course, I got a new key and balancer, but I did not want to rip the crank out and replace it. So the problem was to repair the damage to the crankshaft. Below I will outline the responses I received, and then tell how I fixed it. 1). COMPLETE REPLACEMENT SUGGESTIONS: "Replace the crankshaft. If your repair fails at high RPM, the balancer, fan, etc could fly off and kill someone." "If it doesn't hold, the engine will go way out of balance, and destroy the main bearings." *** Obviously, the "best" solution, but not the most cost- effective. I've never heard of a balancer flying off- I've heard of FLYWHEELS coming apart. Besides, if it did fly off, it would probably only kill ONE person, worst case... :^) 2). SUGGESTIONS FOR EPOXY REPAIR, AND REBUTTALS: "I tried this once. The epoxy failed and ended up causing worse damage than was originally present" "Try Loctite Form-a-thread" Me: I picked up a card of this stuff to have on hand, it seems to be good stuff, but not for this sort of thing. "J-B Weld says it can fix stuff like this :^) " "Epoxy can not take the expansion and contraction of the motor heat" "Epoxy can not take the pounding the part will receive." "The epoxy is going to fill the space between the key and the slot. It's not glueing anything, just filling a void. Concrete or even plaster would probably work." "Use J-B Weld if you MUST use any epoxy" "Try Devcon Plastic Steel" "Try stuff made by Loc-tite. I've used this stuff where a chunk of steel was thrown at the junction of a crankpin." "Make sure any Epoxy is fresh-stock. It hardens in the applicator." *** My reason for NOT using epoxy for the primary repair agent: The machinist told me that Epoxy is wonderful stuff, and they've tried it for lots of exotic repair "saves", and it CAN be as strong as steel in some applications, but it doesn't have the same fatigue properties as steel, and constant pounding will eventually destroy it. The Epoxy disintegrates and falls out. 3). WELDING REPAIR: "Fill in the damage with a welder, then clean it up with a grinder." "Weld a new key in place." "Weld the balancer to the end of the shaft" "Welding will require re-heat treating the crank." "Welding heat should not damage the crank because it's so massive that it'll distribute the heat for the little bit of welding that you need to do." "Any localized heating will change the crystalline structure of the crank in that area." *** My reason for NOT using a welder to do the repair: First, I did not want to weld anything in place, so that rules out several of the suggestions. I did not want to fill in the damage with welded material because of the heat- treating problem. The local welder said it would severly weaken the crank if not done under controlled conditions (in a post-bake oven - IE: I'd have to remove the crank ). The crank is cast. 4). OVERSIZE KEYWAY/KEY KIND OF REPAIRS: "Machine the crank and balancer for an oversize key." "Machining the crank for an oversize key is easy. In the balancer, it's a different story. Maybe a flat file on edge..." "Cut a second keyway in the crank/balancer on the other side of the crank and balancer. IE: a secondary keyway, placed elsewhere around the crank" "Machine a new woodruff key that fits the damage in all its bumps and waves. You may want to clean it up a little bit first, making straighter sides, and then use modeling clay to get an impression of the hole." "Clean up the damaged area to be flat faced, and then machine a steel insert to fill in this space, flush with the crank surface... Then use the standard key. I used this repair once, and it lasted six years, and it was still holding fine when I sold the car." *** This is close to the repair technique I decided to use. (Ya can't argue with successful practical results!). Now the problem was how to cut the keyway without removing the crank. (see below) IMPLEMENTATION: Cutting an oversize key, or cleaning up the damage. "Use a key cutter from a milling machine, mounted in a hand drill." Machinist: "It'll never work. The key cutter bites in, and it will throw the drill (IE: Chatter). You could never hold it steady by hand, it's too wild- use an abrasive....Silicon Carbide." "Abrasives/Grinding will overheat the crank locally, and cause similar problems to the ones you'd have if you tried to weld it." Machinist: "Grinding it slowly with a small hand grinder will not do any harm. Just stop frequently and check your measurements so you don't end up with a sloppy cut." WHAT I DID: I ended up getting a new key, a new balancer, and a modified woodruff key to fill in the damage. I used a small die grinder with a silicon carbide bit to cut an enlarged keyway in the crank, cleaning up the damage. I then modified a woodruff key to fit into the "cleaned up" part, but not extending above the crankshaft surface (flush with it). Then the correct sized key was able to fit in its normal position. The modified woodruff key was simply a steel insert to fill in the "cleaned-up" damaged region. I then used some Epoxy (JB-Weld) to hold the modified key in place. The epoxy is not critical, so if it fails, the steel insert will still be doing the job, but it sure made installation a lot easier. I then tightened the center-bolt very tight, since this will remove much of the load from the repair zone. I took the truck on an abusive road-test, and it seems to hold just fine- the vibration is all gone. I also took the time to fix some accessory mounting brackets that (presumably) were screwed up by the same "mechanic" that ruined the crank. It now looks like we've inherited the truck, so I'm glad I took the time to do it right :^) Thanks to all who responded. Here is a list that I hope is complete- If I missed anybody, I apologize. Any questions, comments or criticisms, please feel free to write me. I'm the first address on the list below. Eric Perozziello (Me) eap@everest.stanford.edu John Wroclawski jtw@lcs.mit.edu James Swonger jws@mlb.semi.harris.com Gary Preckshot gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov Clive Apps clive%problem@epas.utoronto.ca Jens Larsen jenisis@jenisys.com Kyle Schmidt RKSCHMID@MECHANICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca Bill Webster WWEBSTER@BNR.ca Ron Ginger ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com Bill Goodman William.Robert.Goodman@acenet.auburn.edu Roy Giacchino rgiacchi@cs.uml.edu Bob Carrier CARRIER@FNALV.FNAL.GOV Jim Foster jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com Chris Kantarjiev cak@parc.xerox.com ******************************************************************* From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!udel!news.intercon.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!unix.sri.com!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Tue Feb 1 12:48:59 EST 1994 Article: 3566 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!udel!news.intercon.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!unix.sri.com!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Message-ID: <1994Feb1.000742.21261@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 00:07:42 GMT Lines: 29 harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes: >Eric Perozziello (eap@everest.Stanford.EDU) wrote: >: Why would race cars used brazed frames when there are stronger >: methods of attachment? > >For one thing, at-track repairs can be made more easily (it's easier to >ensure the availability of a torch than a TIG). Also, the strength of >the joint doesn't matter as long as it's stronger than the base >material. A well designed and brazed joint will be significantly >stronger than the material being brazed. Also, cost is sometimes a >concern in racing vehicles, as not all racers have infinite budgets. Ok, I'll buy the at-track repair part, but there's still no reason the car can't be fabricated with, say, and Arc welder, and then still repaired at the track with oxy-acetyline. I would assume that the difference in cost between torch welded and arc welded would be minor in ANy racer's budget, and if I, as the welder, had a choice, I'd rather arc weld it. If I were the driver, I'd also rather have an arc welded frame under me :^) Just out of curiosity, do many people out there use their oxy-acetyline set for anything other than brazing thin steel or cutting? (besides materials other than steel, and assuming you have an arc welder). -Eric From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!ogicse!psgrain!news.clark.edu!serval!wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu!HOCKENHU Tue Feb 1 12:49:00 EST 1994 Article: 3567 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!ogicse!psgrain!news.clark.edu!serval!wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu!HOCKENHU From: HOCKENHU@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Message-ID: <16F4FD6BBS85.HOCKENHU@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu> Date: 31 Jan 94 23:15:57 GMT Article-I.D.: wsuvm1.16F4FD6BBS85.HOCKENHU References: <759724858snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: news@serval.net.wsu.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Washington State University Lines: 19 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4351 rec.autos.tech:52845 rec.crafts.metalworking:3567 >In article > bmaccion@promus.com "Bob Maccione" writes: >> I've got a hole in the floor of my 55 Olds and would like to attack the >> welding of it myself. > I recently bought a Lincoln Weldpak 100 at my local Costco for about $280. It appears to be a well-made (USA! :)) unit with cooling fan and all-metal wire-feed mechanism. Eastwood sells the identical welder for $429. It comes set up for flux-core operation. The MIG conversion kit is another hundred bucks. It's still pretty cheap, and a week of practice makes me think it'll be genuinely useful for sheet-metal work. The Hobart Handler is another 110-v unit that comes highly recommended by a bodyman whose work I admire, but it's awfully expensive. I'm a long-time gas welder. What got me interested in wire-feed is the ability to hold the work in one hand while tacking it in place with the other, not always easy to do with oxy-acetylene! Jim Hockenhull Messerschmitt Erstazteile Handler "Four wheels -- if you count the spare!" From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!demoax.enet.dec.com!ginger Tue Feb 1 12:49:01 EST 1994 Article: 3568 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!demoax.enet.dec.com!ginger From: ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (Ron Ginger) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Hydraulic tracer lathe Date: 31 JAN 94 20:30:08 Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2ikbnf$5lv@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> References: <19940126.20075834.jrbeall@delphi.com> <2ibs57$gqg@tymix.Tymnet.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: demoax.enet.dec.com In article <2ibs57$gqg@tymix.Tymnet.COM>, kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) writes... > >I'd be more interested if anyone have ever BUILT a tracer attachment? From >scrap? > I built one for a Unimat. A rather simple device. I arranged a bar parrallel to the ways and fixed about 2" back of the ways. It has a rabet along the edge and several tapped holes. A pattern is filed or whatever, from thin stock, 30-50thou thick. Brass or even plastic works. The cross feed screw is removed so the slide is free to slide back and forth. A pointer is attached to the slide to ride against the profile of the template. The compound is used to apply the cut depth, and simple hand pressure against the slide forces it against the template. Apply power feed and let it go. It would be a nice refinement to add a spring to hold the slide in contact with the template. I have considered offering it as a product from my Model boat business, but havent quite decided how much market there would be for such a gadget. Im waiting for a Sherline lathe on which I also expect to make one. Ron ginger Pleasant Cove Models 17-N Potter Rd Framingham MA 01701 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!euler.Berkeley.EDU!jmorton Tue Feb 1 12:49:02 EST 1994 Article: 3569 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!euler.Berkeley.EDU!jmorton From: jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Hydraulic tracer lathe Date: 1 Feb 1994 02:17:27 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Lines: 49 Message-ID: <2ike3n$4lp@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <19940126.20075834.jrbeall@delphi.com> <2ibs57$gqg@tymix.Tymnet.COM> <2ikbnf$5lv@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: euler.berkeley.edu In article <2ikbnf$5lv@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, Ron Ginger wrote: > >In article <2ibs57$gqg@tymix.Tymnet.COM>, kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) writes... >> >>I'd be more interested if anyone have ever BUILT a tracer attachment? From >>scrap? >> >The cross feed screw is removed so the slide is free to slide back and forth. A >pointer is attached to the slide to ride against the profile of the template. >The compound is used to apply the cut depth, and simple hand pressure against >the slide forces it against the template. Apply power feed and let it go. I have seen a tracing arrangement which is used on a Mycroft lathe for very exact profiles. There is a laser mounted on the carriage, pointing vertically upwards (it is about 6" long and cost $100). The frame which supports the laser also carries a little pin, which is an inch or two from the laser's lens. The pin is the swivel axle for a 1/2" square mirror, which in it's normal position is at ~45 deg. to the horizontal. The mirror is stuck to a bit of sheet metal which is bent at an angle, so that while the mirror itself is at 45 deg., the other half of the sheet metal bit is vertical, and is held at about that orientation by a horizontal pointer which is attached to the compound (which is in the 90 deg. position). Do you get the picture now? Small movements of the compound screw (and hence the toolbit) produce slight changes in the angle of the mirror, which in turn produces large changes in the position of the little red spot on the wall behind the lathe. A cut of .001" is clearly distinguish- able! The man who uses this arrangement has an indicator on the compound, which he uses to set each desired compound and carriage position, according to data obtained from the object he is duplicating (in his case it is the bore of an old flute, from which he has taken measurements in a museum). Each position is then charted by marking the position of the red dot on a sheet of paper behind the lathe. The marks are blended with a pencil. Then he just puts a disc the size of a steering wheel on the compound screw and steers the red dot as the feed carries it along :-). If you think about it, this method is perfectly suited to the purpose, even though the graph of the dot's movement is not in direct correspondence to the shape produced. John Morton University of California jmorton@euler.berkeley.edu Mechanical Engineering {decvax,cbosgd}!ucbvax!euler!jmorton Machine Shop From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!noc.near.net!monk.proteon.com!bhaley Tue Feb 1 12:49:03 EST 1994 Article: 3570 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!noc.near.net!monk.proteon.com!bhaley From: bhaley@proteon.com (Bruce Haley) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Message-ID: Originator: bhaley@fats.proteon.com Sender: news@proteon.com Nntp-Posting-Host: fats.proteon.com Organization: Proteon Inc. References: <2ic5sh$9aj@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Distribution: na Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:40:32 GMT Lines: 33 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4366 rec.autos.tech:52897 rec.crafts.metalworking:3570 In article <2ic5sh$9aj@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes: |> fun? I would never think of Oxygen/acetylene welding as fun... |> nerve racking is more like it. Sure, oxyacetylene welding is lots of fun, as long as you are good at it. It takes much more practice to get good at it, though. |> I must say that the TIG welder is my favorite. While it does cost more |> than others, and it requires Argon gas, and a contant water/ coolant supply, |> the welds come out far superior with less talent than many other welders. |> And it is the most versatile welder I have used (not most mobile though!) |> |> I wouldn't even want to think about welding tubing, or aluminum with anything Yes, TIG is the cadillac of welders. You can weld anything, and weld it very pretty, with TIG. The big drawbacks of TIG are expense (I have yet to see a good TIG unit for less than $1000), and, with respect to auto body work, finite length filler rods (and tungsten electrodes that need reshaping frequently). It can get awful annoying when you are welding a 4 foot frame rail to have to stop every 6 inches or so for a new filler rod. This is where MIG shines - just start up your gun, and you can weld all day long without stopping, if you desire. For the average homeowner, the cost is the big factor, which is why you usually end up with a gas unit or a small MIG (and usually flux-cored, at that). Just my $0.02. Bruce -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- " Signature file ? We don' need no stinking signature file !!" From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!noc.near.net!monk.proteon.com!bhaley Tue Feb 1 12:49:04 EST 1994 Article: 3571 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!destroyer!gumby!yale!yale.edu!noc.near.net!monk.proteon.com!bhaley From: bhaley@proteon.com (Bruce Haley) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Message-ID: Originator: bhaley@fats.proteon.com Sender: news@proteon.com Nntp-Posting-Host: fats.proteon.com Organization: Proteon Inc. References: <1552.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 15:45:08 GMT Lines: 33 In article <1552.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us>, dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) writes: |> |> -> Be very careful where you decide to use braze on a car. It cracks |> -> very easily, and shouldn't be used in any area which absorbs |> -> vibrations. |> -> It is also not as strong as weld. |> -> |> -> I've only had bad experiences with braze --except making lanterns :) |> |> Something's wrong with your technique. |> |> At least half of the British motorcycles ever made had their frames |> brazed together - Norton, Triumph, BSA, and Royal Enfield all did it - |> back fifty years ago the US Crosley car company built engine blocks by |> brazing together pieces - brazing is also used to hold together some |> modern tube-frame racing cars. |> I have to second this - brazing, if done properly, can actually EXCEED the strength of standard welds. There have been reports where brazed joints have been pull-tested in the 80K PSI range, and most standard arc joints are in the 70K PSI range. It's not the best idea to braze thick metal sections together, but for the original application stated in this thread (patching floorboards), it works quite well. Brazing really shines when lap-jointing sheet metal, and this is exactly what patching floorboards entails. Bruce -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- " Signature file ? We don' need no stinking signature file !!" From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen Tue Feb 1 12:49:05 EST 1994 Article: 3572 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Videos in general Message-ID: Sender: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Distribution: usa Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 16:10:46 GMT Lines: 10 Can anyone suggest sources for general metalworking videos? Lathe, mill, welding, any and all subjects appreciated. Renting would be nice, also. dion -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!patbob Mon Feb 7 12:55:00 EST 1994 Article: 3573 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!patbob From: patbob@sequent.com (Patrick White) Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Message-ID: <1994Feb1.191314.28832@sequent.com> Sender: usenet@sequent.com (usenet ) Nntp-Posting-Host: eng2.sequent.com Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc. References: Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 19:13:14 GMT Lines: 30 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:32066 rec.crafts.metalworking:3573 In article shaw@fc.hp.com (Shaw Moldauer) writes: >Steven Johnson (stevenj@microsoft.com) wrote: >: I'm interested in the history of old treadle-powered machinery >: (including scroll saws, lathes, sewing machines, tablesaws, drills, >: etc. etc.). However, I haven't been able to find a good book or >: information source on the companies that made these machines, histories >: of their inventors, or reprints from companies catalogs that describe >: these machines. I know there are hundreds (or at least dozens) of these >: types of books for planemakers --isn't there something similar for >: these machines? > I buy old books at garage sales. One of the 1930's handyman style >books has an article on converting your old treadle sewing machine into a >scroll saw. I plan to, whenever I get more shop space, convert an old >treadle. I don't have a scoll saw, but do have the treadle. If a small >number of people are interested, I might send the plans out.... Or, you could sell the treadle machine (especially if it's an old Singer) to someone who wants it and use the money to buy a real scroll saw.. much less work. I've seen them going for $200 locally, and have heard (via my wife, who reads rec.sewing) that as high as $800 for one has been mentioned on rec.sewing. If you want to find out what it's worth, get the serial number and call singer (ask on rec.sewing for the 800 number) to find out how old it is.. then ask rec.sewing readers what it's worth (probably also find someone who wants to buy it too). I doubt the treadle machine you have is worth $800, but it might be worth enough to get a real scroll saw. -- Pat White (work: patbob@sequent.com, (503) 578-3463) (home: eaglet.rain.com!puterbob!patbob) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!nntp.msstate.edu!olivea!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry Mon Feb 7 12:55:01 EST 1994 Article: 3574 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!nntp.msstate.edu!olivea!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Message-ID: <1994Feb1.194121.15612@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> Sender: nobody@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com (Nobody - UID must be 99999) Nntp-Posting-Host: hpcvxhp.cv.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.9] References: <1994Feb1.000742.21261@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 19:41:21 GMT Lines: 28 Eric Perozziello (eap@everest.Stanford.EDU) wrote: : I would assume that the difference in cost between torch welded : and arc welded would be minor in ANy racer's budget, and if I, : as the welder, had a choice, I'd rather arc weld it. If I were : the driver, I'd also rather have an arc welded frame under me :^) This depends on the material being joined, and what you mean by "arc" welding. If you're fabricating a frame or part out of thin-walled 4130 tubing, you're not going to grab your stick welder and go for it. In this case, your practical choices are brazing, oxy-acetylene welding, and TIG welding. Brazing is easy, TIG welding is expensive (at least the initial investment cost), oxy-acetylene welding works well, but (IMO) requires more skill than does brazing. Trying to join the thin walled tubing to a thicker plate will make the TIG and brazing look even better compared to oxy-acetylene welding. : Just out of curiosity, do many people out there use their : oxy-acetyline set for anything other than brazing thin steel : or cutting? (besides materials other than steel, and assuming : you have an arc welder). Also hot-forming, annealing, hot-shrinking sheet metal, and freeing seized fasteners. I must admit that I don't do much oxy-acetylene welding anymore, mainly because the MIG is so fast. If I'd just break down and spend the dollars for a Miller Econo-TIG, I'd probably not do _any_ more oxy-acetylene welding :-). Harry Phinney harry@cv.hp.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!milo.mcs.anl.gov!achilles.ctd.anl.gov!shaffer Mon Feb 7 12:55:02 EST 1994 Article: 3575 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!milo.mcs.anl.gov!achilles.ctd.anl.gov!shaffer From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer) Subject: Afghan Rifles Message-ID: Sender: usenet@mcs.anl.gov Reply-To: user@machine.domain Organization: Argonne National Laboratory Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 18:15:23 GMT Lines: 7 I have heard that the Afghan rebels built their own rifles with very little in the way of tools. The question that has always bothered me however is how did they rifle the barrels. Does anyone have any insight? mike From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Mon Feb 7 12:55:03 EST 1994 Article: 3576 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Re: Afghan Rifles Message-ID: <1994Feb1.235637.9200@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 23:56:37 GMT Lines: 25 user@machine.domain writes: > >I have heard that the Afghan rebels built their own rifles with very >little in the way of tools. The question that has always bothered me >however is how did they rifle the barrels. Does anyone have any >insight? When I visited Dixie Gun Works (worth the trip, IMO!), they had a lot of old gunmaking tools on display, as well as some pieces "in process" so you could see how it was done. The gun barrels were hand forged... To answer (I hope) your question, they had a jig (made of wood) with a groove cut on the outside of a large (~2") wooden dowel. The dowel was connected (axially) to an iron rod with a cutter on the end. As the cutter was run into the barrel, the groove in the wood forced the cutter to trace out the rifling pattern in the barrel. I don't know if it was a one-pass operation, or multiple passes. The groove was fairly complex (the rifling got tighter near the business-end of the barrel, like a modern one). -Eric From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news Mon Feb 7 12:55:04 EST 1994 Article: 3577 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!news From: Doug White Subject: Re: Pure Lead out of Old Tire Weights? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <1994Feb1.145724.29375@ll.mit.edu> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 09:57:22 -0500 Lines: 18 I've lost the original posting, but I just noticed that Precision Small Parts lists lead bricks in their catalog. They are the sort used for Xray shielding. I don't kow how pure the stuff is, but I remember using shielding bricks for bullet casting when I was a kid. I grew up in Los Alamos, New Mexico and the surplus yard had spare bricks fairly regularly. The biggest problem was cutting the bricks down into pieces small enough to go in my father's casting pot. I used to get paid 5 cents/hour to cut them up with a cold chisel, which I suspect was more to keep me quiet than anything else. I don't know whether my father alloyed the stuff with anything, but I suspect that the lead was fairly pure. Another source for lead is building supply houses. Sheet lead is used for roof flashing. The stuff comes in 1/8" thick sheets, but it may not be particularly cheap. Doug White MIT Lincoln Laboratory From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com!paul Mon Feb 7 12:55:05 EST 1994 Article: 3578 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com!paul From: paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Paul Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Videos in general Date: 2 Feb 1994 02:20:34 GMT Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Urbana Design Center Lines: 33 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <2in2li$i2n@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.191.64.4 hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: >Can anyone suggest sources for general metalworking videos? Lathe, >mill, welding, any and all subjects appreciated. Renting would be >nice, also. The following firms advertise such videos in Home Shop Machinist: The Rudy Kouhoupt videos are from: New Life Video Productions P.O Box 175 Traverse City, MI 49685 Others from: Bailey Craftsman Supply Dept. HSM P.O. Box 276 Fulton, MO 65251 Your local library (and you probably have at *least* one city library in every community in the San Diego Metro area...that's a *lot*, not to mention UCSD, National University, University of San Diego, and San Diego State U. etc., etc.) might have some for loan or on-site viewing. PJ ------ Paul Jones, Motorola MCG paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com 1101 E. University Ave. Voice: (217) 384-8529 Urbana, IL 61801, USA FAX: (217) 384-8550 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!zib-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.fu-berlin.de!compton Mon Feb 7 12:55:06 EST 1994 Article: 3579 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.autos.tech,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!zib-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.fu-berlin.de!compton From: compton@afrc.ac.uk (Paul Compton -RESCU) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding In-Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us's message of 30 Jan 94 17:28:00 GMT Message-ID: Sender: news@math.fu-berlin.de (Math Department) Nntp-Posting-Host: ress1.res.afrc.ac.uk Organization: Institute of Arable Crops Research, Rothamsted Experimental Station References: <2ic5sh$9aj@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Distribution: na Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 10:31:59 GMT Lines: 40 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4404 rec.autos.tech:52988 rec.crafts.metalworking:3579 -> Be very careful where you decide to use braze on a car. It cracks -> very easily, and shouldn't be used in any area which absorbs -> vibrations. -> It is also not as strong as weld. -> -> I've only had bad experiences with braze --except making lanterns :) --> Something's wrong with your technique. I use mig extensivly in car repair work and would seldom use gas partly for the reason that many cars are built from "high strength steels" which can buckle, corrode or in unusual cases split after being gas welded. Where I do use gas is where I am repairing a bent pannel and know I will have to beat it I use gas. In the UK brazing in NOT acceptable for structural rapairs to unit construction cars and if spotted will lead to an MOT fail, I know of one person who brazed on a replacement sill and then had to mig weld it, he ended up in hospital due to the toxic fumes produced I have modified my mig with a variable pulse wire feed which allows very thin sheet to be welded With tube frames I would mig weld 16 swg tube if after speed of construction and probably bronze weld (gas) if after light weight Paul Compton -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Paul Compton Rothamsted Experimental Station Harpenden, Herts. AL5 2JQ. UK e-mail: Paul.Compton@afrc.ac.uk +44 (0)582 763133 x2413 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph Mon Feb 7 12:55:07 EST 1994 Article: 3580 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph From: ralph@astol.astro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) Subject: Re: knife making - novice Message-ID: <1994Feb2.121249.24187@nomina.lu.se> Sender: ralph@astol (Ralph Snel) Nntp-Posting-Host: nastol.astro.lu.se Organization: Lund Observatory References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 12:12:49 GMT Lines: 57 In article , johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: > In article bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) writes: > >From: bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) > >Subject: Re: knife making - novice > >Date: 28 Jan 94 04:57:22 GMT > >baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM wrote: > > > > > >Don't expect to be able to sharpen a stainless blade, they don't. You can > >grind/file or whatever forever until you get a razor sharp blade, breath on > >it once and it's dull again. > > > >-- > >A weapon + Help cut down on + bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) > >in every hand = + Government Spending; + rwing!xpresso!bill Bothell, Wa. > >Freedom + Resurect a Local + You listen when I xpresso, > >on every side. + Militia near You! + I listen when uuxpresso....:-) > > I don't know where you get your stainless steel blades but I have > many and they all hold edges just fine. > > Rick My victorinox swiss army knife is stainless... Holds an edge pretty well. To come back to the original thread: One of my favourite books is "The Complete Bladesmith, forging your way to perfection" by Jim Hrisoulas. I don't have any details right now, but if you want ISBN numbers you can mail me and I'll get back to you. Cleaning up old knives can be done by removing the handle/grip if needed and possible, then filing with a fine, wide and large file, and finishing up with sandpaper (preferably waterproof) in increasing grids, up to 1000 or 1200. With small knives this will take a few hours, but they will look like new. Be careful not to slice your fingertips off when you are sanding sharp knives. Very painfull with all the grinding dust. Refitting the handle is a whole chapter on itself, and various books are available on the subject. The problem is that the ones I like are in Swedish... One of the easier ways is to take a piece of nice hardwood, drill a hole for the tang, heat the tang and burn the wood in place, and file/sand in final shape. Treat with linseed oil or any other finish to make the wood even nicer. Epoxy the grip on the tang. This should take a couple of hours as well. Once you really get into knife making it might be worth to buy a belt sander and save yourself a lot of time. Good luck! Ralph ralph@astro.lu.se From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!Germany.EU.net!netmbx.de!zrz.TU-Berlin.DE!math.fu-berlin.de!news.fu-berlin.de!compton Mon Feb 7 12:55:09 EST 1994 Article: 3581 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!Germany.EU.net!netmbx.de!zrz.TU-Berlin.DE!math.fu-berlin.de!news.fu-berlin.de!compton From: compton@afrc.ac.uk (Paul Compton -RESCU) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding In-Reply-To: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU's message of Tue, 1 Feb 94 00:07:42 GMT Message-ID: Sender: news@math.fu-berlin.de (Math Department) Nntp-Posting-Host: ress1.res.afrc.ac.uk Organization: Institute of Arable Crops Research, Rothamsted Experimental Station References: <1994Feb1.000742.21261@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 12:41:35 GMT Lines: 69 In article <1994Feb1.000742.21261@cascade.Stanford.EDU> eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes: Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: math.fu-berlin.de!zrz.TU-Berlin.DE!netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!unix.sri.com!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 00:07:42 GMT Lines: 29 harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes: >Eric Perozziello (eap@everest.Stanford.EDU) wrote: >: Why would race cars used brazed frames when there are stronger >: methods of attachment? >For one thing, at-track repairs can be made more easily (it's easier to >ensure the availability of a torch than a TIG). Also, the strength of >the joint doesn't matter as long as it's stronger than the base >material. A well designed and brazed joint will be significantly >stronger than the material being brazed. Also, cost is sometimes a >concern in racing vehicles, as not all racers have infinite budgets. >Ok, I'll buy the at-track repair part, but there's still no >reason the car can't be fabricated with, say, and Arc welder, >and then still repaired at the track with oxy-acetyline. >I would assume that the difference in cost between torch welded >and arc welded would be minor in ANy racer's budget, and if I, >as the welder, had a choice, I'd rather arc weld it. If I were >the driver, I'd also rather have an arc welded frame under me! When you weld a metal this involves melting the parent metal. At the edge of the molten pool, as it meets solid metal you WILL get a crack, this is inevitable. When dealing with race car frames you can be involved with some very thin sections, so small welds are needed to avoid stress raisers due to section change,ie no mig, your choice then comes down to gas weld, bronze weld, braze, or silver solder. I have been building various tube frames for several years and from experience can relate the following, on a road going sportscar I would probably build the frame from mostly 1 inch square 16 swg tube (16 swg is 1.6mm 1/16 inch, higher numbers are thinner, sorry, dont have the figures) and my preference would be to mig weld the frame. When I have to cut a frame to modify or repair it I would expect the cut member to spring a considerable distance out of position due to the stresses set up when made. For a race chassis I would use 18-20 swg and braze the frame,brazing is effectivly a high temperature soldering technique, a professional frame builder would bronze weld, as the name implies bronze WELDING melts the parent metal but unlike a conventional weld fills its own cracks and provides a smooth finnish reducing stress-raisers. Braze material is stronger than steel but will not stand bendin loads or 'peel'. A badly designed 'space' frame is best welded out of relativly thick section tube in order to accept the bending loads imposed, a correctly designed frame resolves all loads into tension and compression and is immensly strong. A 1960 Lotus formula One frame (bare) weighs approx 70 pounds and uses nothing heavier than 18 swg. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Paul Compton Rothamsted Experimental Station Harpenden, Herts. AL5 2JQ. UK e Harpenden, Herts. AL5 2JQ. UK e-mail: Paul.Compton@afrc.ac.uk +44 (0)582 763133 x2413 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!rgh_rghlab12.wwc.edu!johnric Mon Feb 7 12:55:10 EST 1994 Article: 3582 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!rgh_rghlab12.wwc.edu!johnric From: johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: knife making - novice Date: 2 Feb 1994 17:03:25 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 65 Message-ID: References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> <1994Feb2.121249.24187@nomina.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: rgh_rghlab12.wwc.edu In article <1994Feb2.121249.24187@nomina.lu.se> ralph@astol.astro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) writes: >From: ralph@astol.astro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) >Subject: Re: knife making - novice >Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 12:12:49 GMT >In article , johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: >> In article bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) writes: >> >From: bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) >> >Subject: Re: knife making - novice >> >Date: 28 Jan 94 04:57:22 GMT >> >baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM wrote: >> > >> > >> >Don't expect to be able to sharpen a stainless blade, they don't. You can >> >grind/file or whatever forever until you get a razor sharp blade, breath on >> >it once and it's dull again. >> > >> >-- >> >A weapon + Help cut down on + bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) >> >in every hand = + Government Spending; + rwing!xpresso!bill Bothell, Wa. >> >Freedom + Resurect a Local + You listen when I xpresso, >> >on every side. + Militia near You! + I listen when uuxpresso....:-) >> >> I don't know where you get your stainless steel blades but I have >> many and they all hold edges just fine. >> >> Rick > >My victorinox swiss army knife is stainless... Holds an edge pretty >well. > >To come back to the original thread: >One of my favourite books is "The Complete Bladesmith, forging your >way to perfection" by Jim Hrisoulas. I don't have any details right >now, but if you want ISBN numbers you can mail me and I'll get back >to you. > >Cleaning up old knives can be done by removing the handle/grip if >needed and possible, then filing with a fine, wide and large file, >and finishing up with sandpaper (preferably waterproof) in increasing >grids, up to 1000 or 1200. With small knives this will take a few >hours, but they will look like new. Be careful not to slice your >fingertips off when you are sanding sharp knives. Very painfull with >all the grinding dust. > >Refitting the handle is a whole chapter on itself, and various books >are available on the subject. The problem is that the ones I like are >in Swedish... > >One of the easier ways is to take a piece of nice hardwood, drill a >hole for the tang, heat the tang and burn the wood in place, and >file/sand in final shape. Treat with linseed oil or any other finish >to make the wood even nicer. Epoxy the grip on the tang. This should >take a couple of hours as well. > >Once you really get into knife making it might be worth to buy a >belt sander and save yourself a lot of time. > >Good luck! > >Ralph >ralph@astro.lu.se What kind of belt sander would you reccomend. I'm in the mood for something cheap but useful. Rick From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!scot Mon Feb 7 12:55:11 EST 1994 Article: 3583 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!scot From: scot@fc.hp.com (Scot Heath) Subject: Re: Afghan Rifles Sender: news@fc.hp.com (news daemon) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 18:05:30 GMT References: <1994Feb1.235637.9200@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: hpfiseh.fc.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.4] Lines: 23 Eric Perozziello (eap@everest.Stanford.EDU) wrote: : or multiple passes. The groove was fairly complex (the rifling : got tighter near the business-end of the barrel, like a modern one). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I don't think so, Tim. There has been quite a bit of discussion in the past few months regarding this subject. Probably on of the best sources of hand held rifle barrel information, Bart Bobbitt who is a member of the US Palma Team, has outlined several modern rifling processes, all of which are dimensionaly constant over the length of the barrel. -Scot -- DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER Everything I write is my opinion only. Nobody else would want it. DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER Scot E. Heath "Nothing beats turning clay to dust." Fort Collins, CO scot@hpfcla.fc.hp.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry Mon Feb 7 12:55:12 EST 1994 Article: 3584 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Message-ID: <1994Feb2.190953.8545@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> Sender: nobody@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com (Nobody - UID must be 99999) Nntp-Posting-Host: hpcvxhp.cv.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.9] References: Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 19:09:53 GMT Lines: 39 Paul Compton -RESCU (compton@afrc.ac.uk) wrote: : When you weld a metal this involves melting the parent metal. This is true. : At the edge of the molten pool, as it meets solid metal you WILL get : a crack, this is inevitable. I strongly disagree. Countless welds are made each day with no edge cracks. Cracks are not allowed in any sort of certified welding process which I am aware of. : When dealing with race car frames you : can be involved with some very thin sections, so small welds are needed : to avoid stress raisers due to section change,ie no mig, your choice : then comes down to gas weld, bronze weld, braze, or silver solder. Or TIG welding. : ...,brazing is effectivly a high temperature : soldering technique, Agreed. : a professional frame builder would bronze : weld, as the name implies bronze WELDING melts the parent metal but : unlike a conventional weld fills its own cracks and provides a smooth : finnish reducing stress-raisers. I have only heard, read, and used the phrase "braze welding" to describe the filling of "V" joints or creating substantial fillets at joints using normal brazing temperatures. I have never seen or heard it to imply melting of the base metal. If the base steel is overheated to the point of allowing significant brass inclusion into the grain structure of the steel (let alone melting of the steel), the material properties of the steel at the joint will suffer. Harry Phinney harry@cv.hp.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!news.miami.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!mailer.acns.fsu.edu!ronpc.psy.fsu.edu!thompson Mon Feb 7 12:55:13 EST 1994 Article: 3585 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!news.miami.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!mailer.acns.fsu.edu!ronpc.psy.fsu.edu!thompson From: thompson@psy.fsu.edu (Ron Thompson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: OLD ENGINES Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 16:36:06 GMT Organization: Psychology Dept., FSU Lines: 12 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ronpc.psy.fsu.edu HI, I HAVE NOT SEEN MANY MESSAGES FROM ANTIQUE ENGINE COLLECTORS. THERE MUST BE SEVERAL PEOPLE WITH GAS, STEAM OR HOT AIR ENGINES OUT THERE. THE ONLY THING I HAVE AT PRESENT IS A 1926 KOHLER GENERATOR. IT IS A WATER-COOLED 3 1/2 HP, 4 CYLINDER WEIGHING 500 POUNDS. I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO ANYONE WHO HAS ONE OR KNOWS OF ONE. I NEED A FEW PARTS TO RESTORE IT TO ORIGINAL CONDITION. THANKS, Ron Ron Thompson | Internet: thompson@psy.fsu.edu Psychology Dept. | Voice: 904-644-5563 Florida State University | FAX: 904-644-7739 Tallahassee, FL 32306-1051 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!patbob Mon Feb 7 12:55:14 EST 1994 Article: 3586 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!patbob From: patbob@sequent.com (Patrick White) Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Message-ID: <1994Feb2.205841.28386@sequent.com> Sender: usenet@sequent.com (usenet ) Nntp-Posting-Host: eng2.sequent.com Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc. References: <1994Feb1.191314.28832@sequent.com> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 20:58:41 GMT Lines: 12 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:32205 rec.crafts.metalworking:3586 In article <1994Feb1.191314.28832@sequent.com> patbob@sequent.com (Patrick White) writes: > Or, you could sell the treadle machine (especially if it's an old >Singer) to someone who wants it and use the money to buy a real scroll saw.. >much less work. I've seen them going for $200 locally, and have heard (via >my wife, who reads rec.sewing) that as high as $800 for one has been ^^^^^^^^^^ Duh.. alt.sewing.. brain went out for a snack. -- Pat White (work: patbob@sequent.com, (503) 578-3463) (home: eaglet.rain.com!puterbob!patbob) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!plasma.ps.uci.edu!dparsons Mon Feb 7 12:55:15 EST 1994 Article: 3587 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!plasma.ps.uci.edu!dparsons From: dparsons@plasma.ps.uci.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: OLD ENGINES Date: 2 Feb 1994 22:09:19 GMT Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 15 Message-ID: <2ip8af$l1r@news.service.uci.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plasma.ps.uci.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Ron Thompson (thompson@psy.fsu.edu) wrote: : HI, : I HAVE NOT SEEN MANY MESSAGES FROM ANTIQUE ENGINE COLLECTORS. THERE MUST BE : SEVERAL PEOPLE WITH GAS, STEAM OR HOT AIR ENGINES OUT THERE. Where have you been? A couple of months ago I was looking for someone to talk to about the Western 200 I have adopted. I'm glad to see another engine buff on the net! I had an engine for sale too. I am part of a museum where I am restoring a Western 200. The last of it's kind. It's a 2 cylinder 200 hp monster. Weighing in at 28,000 pounds with it's 7 foot flywheel. I almost have it ready to start. Dave Parsons From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!maggie.austin.wireline.slb.com!detroit.austin.wireline.slb.com!user Mon Feb 7 12:55:16 EST 1994 Article: 3588 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!maggie.austin.wireline.slb.com!detroit.austin.wireline.slb.com!user From: mayhugh@austin.wireline.slb.com (Terry Mayhugh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: English Wheel Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 2 Feb 1994 20:01:30 GMT Organization: Schlumberger, Austin TX Lines: 6 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: detroit.austin.slcs.slb.com Anyone have any experience with using an English wheel? I just finished building one based on a design by John Glover and am now in the (difficult) process of teaching myself to use it. Although I have a few of his video tapes, I'd really like some written instructional material. I haven't been able to find much. I have found one or two race car schools in the East that offer short courses but they are too far away and too expensive. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!jobone!slee01.srl.ford.com!eccdb1.pms.ford.com!iao.ford.com!anderson Mon Feb 7 12:55:17 EST 1994 Article: 3589 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!jobone!slee01.srl.ford.com!eccdb1.pms.ford.com!iao.ford.com!anderson From: anderson@iao.ford.com (John Anderson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Copper oxidation Date: 2 Feb 1994 22:21:21 GMT Organization: Ford Motor Company Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2ip911INNn8s@eccdb1.pms.ford.com> References: Reply-To: janders3@asc013.ets.ford.com NNTP-Posting-Host: asc100.ets.ford.com In article , john_wagner@washcoll.edu (John Wagner) writes: = =I am making an indoor fountain out of copper tubing and sheet copper =flashing material. how can I make the copper green? Muriatic acid perhaps? =Any suggestions? = Try this... 1 Tbsp. ammonium chloride ( sal ammoniac ) 1 Tbsp salt 1 oz. ammonia 1 qt. water ( distilled is best ) Mix all this stuff up, you may need to warm it up to get things to dissolve. Put the mixture in a spray bottle. Make sure your metal is clean ( Scotchbrite pads work great here ) and dry. Spritz the stuff all over your metal, and allow to dry naturally. Repeat the spritz and dry at least four times. You can also mix the liquid with saw dust or kitty litter and put that and your metal in a bag and seal it up. good luck, John -- janders3@asc013.ets.ford.com ========================================================== The ones whom you should try to get even with are the ones who have helped you. ========================================================== From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Mon Feb 7 12:55:18 EST 1994 Article: 3590 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Organization: AT&T Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 22:53:51 GMT Message-ID: References: <1994Feb2.190953.8545@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> Lines: 31 >From article <1994Feb2.190953.8545@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com>, by harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney): > Paul Compton -RESCU (compton@afrc.ac.uk) wrote: > > : a professional frame builder would bronze > : weld, as the name implies bronze WELDING melts the parent metal but > : unlike a conventional weld fills its own cracks and provides a smooth > : finnish reducing stress-raisers. > > I have only heard, read, and used the phrase "braze welding" to describe > the filling of "V" joints or creating substantial fillets at joints > using normal brazing temperatures. I have never seen or heard it to > imply melting of the base metal. If the base steel is overheated to the > point of allowing significant brass inclusion into the grain structure > of the steel (let alone melting of the steel), the material properties > of the steel at the joint will suffer. I owned a tube-frame Lotus 23 in the early 1970's, and did significant repair and redesign on the frame. I spent a fair time assuring that I understood and could duplicate the joining technology used in the original manufacture. The process was called "nickel-bronze welding", or sometimes simply "bronze welding" or "braze welding". The process, as the mname implies, uses a special high nickel content filler rod, and uses relatively large fillets, created at temperatures relatively low compared to traditional brazing temperatures, let alone welding temperatures. The wisdom at the time from experts using the same technique in manufacturing formula ford chassis in the US, was that exceeding a relatively low brazing temp. creates a low strength weld. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Mon Feb 7 12:55:19 EST 1994 Article: 3591 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet From: JGGEER@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Polishing old glass? Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 19:26:01 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 5 Message-ID: <19940202.19260107.jggeer@delphi.com> References: <1994Jan24.142053.13544@uicc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com X-To: DRAGON! Yo, Chris! If you catch this please reply. Its coumputer illiterate me, the glass gnome, wandering around to see ifn I can bump into a friendly cursor. Bluye magic is the name of the polish to bring up old glass. Its a chrome polish, actually, found in a uto repair places. the glass gnome From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn Mon Feb 7 12:55:20 EST 1994 Article: 3592 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) Subject: Re: Afghan Rifles Message-ID: <1994Feb2.231928.14697@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA References: <1994Feb1.235637.9200@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 23:19:28 GMT Lines: 19 eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes: : : To answer (I hope) your question, they had a jig (made of wood) : with a groove cut on the outside of a large (~2") wooden dowel. : The dowel was connected (axially) to an iron rod with a cutter : on the end. As the cutter was run into the barrel, the groove : in the wood forced the cutter to trace out the rifling pattern : in the barrel. I don't know if it was a one-pass operation, : or multiple passes. The groove was fairly complex (the rifling : got tighter near the business-end of the barrel, like a modern : one). It is multiple pass - just like with automated machinery. You are wrong about a gain twist being used on modern rifles. It is not, and has not been used for a long time. It would surprise me if the rebels used such a twist - it leads to excessive fouling of the barrel. Bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!hermes.acs.ryerson.ca!ee.ryerson.ca!dspeck Mon Feb 7 12:55:21 EST 1994 Article: 3593 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!hermes.acs.ryerson.ca!ee.ryerson.ca!dspeck From: dspeck@ee.ryerson.ca (DOUG SPECK) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: knife making - novice Date: 2 Feb 1994 20:44:07 GMT Organization: Ryerson Polytechnic University Lines: 38 Message-ID: <2ip3an$u6n@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nyquist.ee.ryerson.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] : baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM wrote: : > My son has recently decided to try making knives (based on an article : > he saw in Popular Mechanics). : > I suggested that he start by working on old knives to get some : > experience (cleaning the blade, putting a new handle on the knife, etc) : > first. Could anyone suggest any good books (or supply catalogs) for : > him to get? : > One other thing, he has an old knife that he wants to work on, it was : > a stainless steel blade and has a bit of corrosion and dullness to it. : > What is the correct way to restore the blade? : > thanks, : > james As to books to get you started, I read one as a young teen, called Step- by-Step Knife Making, by David(somebody) which was an excellent book. I couldn't recommend it enough, and as far as I know, it is either still in print, or only recently out of print. It is very detailed in its explanations, and even goes into acid-etching the blade for decorative purposes. It only covers the stock-removal method, no forging info, but that is the only real way to start anyhow. GET HIM THIS BOOK! (I am in no way affiliated with the author, I just liked the book.) Of course, YMMV. Regards, Doug. -- dspeck@ee.ryerson.ca - aka T-Bear Remember - The teddybear of today still carries the vestigial claws of his ancestors... From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!malgudi.oar.net!witch!landau!jrl Mon Feb 7 12:55:22 EST 1994 Article: 3594 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!malgudi.oar.net!witch!landau!jrl Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Message-ID: <116@landau.win.net> References: Reply-To: jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) From: jrl@landau.win.net (Joe Landau) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 1994 05:18:28 GMT Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Lines: 37 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:32236 rec.crafts.metalworking:3594 In article , Shaw Moldauer (shaw@fc.hp.com) writes: >Steven Johnson (stevenj@microsoft.com) wrote: >: I'm interested in the history of old treadle-powered machinery >: (including scroll saws, lathes, sewing machines, tablesaws, drills, >: etc. etc.). However, I haven't been able to find a good book or >: information source on the companies that made these machines, histories >: of their inventors, or reprints from companies catalogs that describe >: these machines. I know there are hundreds (or at least dozens) of these >: types of books for planemakers --isn't there something similar for >: these machines? > > I buy old books at garage sales. One of the 1930's handyman style >books has an article on converting your old treadle sewing machine into a >scroll saw. I plan to, whenever I get more shop space, convert an old >treadle. I don't have a scoll saw, but do have the treadle. If a small >number of people are interested, I might send the plans out.... > > -Shaw > >p.s. The old handyman and woodworkinh books have a wealth of information. >I am continually surprized when an idea is presented as "new" in FWW or >some mag which is in some of my old books. Also, I rarely pay more than >5-10 cents for a book (much cheaper than Rodale press) I agree--I particularly like the "shop notes" annuals that popular mechanics put out--I think from 1915 or so to the 50s. But I also remember seeing in a FWW an article about a treadle lathe that someone built, the interesting feature of which was that it used a bicycle sprocket and chain to convert the treadle motion to unidirectional rotation, instead of the usual crank. Neat. --Joe > > > > From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 Mon Feb 7 12:55:24 EST 1994 Article: 3595 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 From: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Motor Question Date: 3 Feb 1994 04:39:26 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 17 Message-ID: <2ipv5u$104@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) NNTP-Posting-Host: eeyore.ins.cwru.edu How do I know if my compressor motor,which is 1 hp, is operating near it max? I need to squeeze more cfm by increasing speed by changing pulley size, but don't want the motor to overheat! Should I measure the running amperage, or will the starting current be the thing to look at? it is not cap start or run. it bogs alot when it starts, so I may not be able to change much. Has anyone else gone thru this?? -- "Onward through the fog" - Power-Hitter bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu mburlage@heartland.bradley.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!waikato!comp.vuw.ac.nz!gcs.co.nz!amigans!linc!poncho Mon Feb 7 12:55:25 EST 1994 Article: 3596 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!waikato!comp.vuw.ac.nz!gcs.co.nz!amigans!linc!poncho From: poncho@linc.amigans.gen.nz (Peter Northway) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Electo-Plating Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 16:39:28 +1300 References: <2igvrv$hqh@panix2.panix.com> Organization: Totally disorganised. Lines: 24 In <2igvrv$hqh@panix2.panix.com> danw@panix.com (Dan Wold) writes: >I'm thinking of trying to do electro-plating in my shop (on small >scale). Would it be possible to use my DC welding machine as a >power-supply? Stuff deleted. >Also, I could use recommendations of books and other sources of info on >this topic. I have a book called "Electro-Plating for the Amateur" by L. Warburton published by MAP (Model & Allied Publications), Argus Books Limited, 14 St. James Rd., Watford, Hertfordshire, England. I haven't read the book thoroughly but it appears to be very comprehensive. Hope this helps. -- Peter Northway | Disclaimer : This is just my opinion. Well more Wanganui New Zealand | like a tiny ripple in the fabric of the universe. poncho@linc.amigans.gen.nz | Well would you believe just another beer break. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!udel!pacs.sunbelt.net!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Mon Feb 7 12:55:25 EST 1994 Article: 3597 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!udel!pacs.sunbelt.net!lynx.unm.edu!algodones.unm.edu!ebo Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Message-ID: <2iqk93INN8gi@lynx.unm.edu> From: ebo@algodones.unm.edu () Date: 3 Feb 1994 10:39:31 GMT Reply-To: ebo@algodones.unm.edu References: <2ii572INNm31@lynx.unm.edu> Distribution: world Organization: "University of New Mexico, Albuquerque" Keywords: treadle NNTP-Posting-Host: algodones.unm.edu Lines: 29 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:32265 rec.crafts.metalworking:3597 > As a woodworker lurking in this group, I'm also interested in info on treadle > machines - wood lathes in particular. Here's one question I have: What's a good > mid-tech bearing for the live centers (mid-tech = 19th century) so I can > reproduce the technology? What's a good source for these bearings? Well, most of my experience have been with three types of bearings: 1) babitt (sp?): used in fairly high load applications. 2) steel needle and bronze seat. (or just bronze bearings) 3) and ironwood bearings (of all things)... it seemed to work fine for the shaft bearing... for a very long time. When the shaft was disasembled and moved back in 1983, I think they replaced the wood bearings with bronze. > As far as the reference to books for planemakers, try Jim Kingshott's book > title is (?) Making Hand Tools (?). > > For reference books ON planemakers, try the Astragal Press or Early American > Industries Assn (EAIA). There are numerous books on 18th and 19th century > planes. Thanks for the references! EBo -- ------------------------------------------------------ "I don't use drugs, my dreams are frightening enough." -- M.C.Escher From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!usenet Mon Feb 7 12:55:26 EST 1994 Article: 3598 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!usenet From: djenkins@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Date: 3 Feb 1994 12:00:12 GMT Organization: BT Labs, Martlesham Heath, Ipswich, UK Lines: 23 Message-ID: <2iqp0c$ca4@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: <2ipv5u$104@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: djenkins@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk >From article <2ipv5u$104@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, by bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage): > > > How do I know if my compressor motor,which is 1 hp, is > operating near it max? A typical compressor with a 1 hp motor is *very likely* to be running at maximum capacity. A good check is to run it for 10 minutes or so, perhaps running a tool or something, then try putting your hand on the motor casing *carefully* - beware, it may be too hot! - if you can comfortably rest your hand there but it is warm, then it's within its rating, but close to the limit. If it's cool, then it's not struggling at all and might be happy with extra load. However, if it's reluctant to start, then you've had it. CAUTION! Approach the motor casing with care, as a compressor motor is likely to be very hot, right on the limits. You have been warned... don't come crying to me... etc. Also, if the machine isn't well made or maintained, there may be stray mains voltage about... David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph Mon Feb 7 12:55:27 EST 1994 Article: 3599 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.lth.se!news.lu.se!astol!ralph From: ralph@astol.astro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) Subject: Re: knife making - novice Message-ID: <1994Feb3.150325.3965@nomina.lu.se> Sender: ralph@astol (Ralph Snel) Nntp-Posting-Host: nastol.astro.lu.se Organization: Lund Observatory References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> <1994Feb2.121249.24187@nomina.lu.se> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 15:03:25 GMT Lines: 21 In article , johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: > What kind of belt sander would you reccomend. I'm in the mood for > something cheap but useful. > > Rick The problem with cheap sanders is that they are made for wood, i.e. low speed and only coarse belts available. There may be some things on the market in the States that are useful for knifemaking, I am not familiar with those, but here in Europe there really isn't that much. Something that might work (haven't tried it though) is to buy a Black and Decker (or any other popular brand) hand held belt sander, and mount it upside down in a bench vice. You could also try to put an ad out in your local newspaper and try to get something second hand. Try to look through some knife making magazines to get an idea of the prices, maybe someone else on the net can give some advice here? Ralph From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail Mon Feb 7 12:55:28 EST 1994 Article: 3600 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Electo-Plating Date: 3 Feb 1994 10:44:42 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 15 Message-ID: <2ir65a$olt@panix.com> References: <2igvrv$hqh@panix2.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com Dan Wold wrote: >I'm thinking of trying to do electro-plating in my shop (on small >scale). Would it be possible to use my DC welding machine as a >power-supply? That's serious overkill. Much electroplating is done with power supplies putting out 12 Volts or less. A car battery is fine and I do some brush plating with two penlight (AA) cells. -- Len Moskowitz Core Sound moskowit@panix.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!csn!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hp-mcm!hpmcdg.mcm.hp.com!daveg Mon Feb 7 12:55:29 EST 1994 Article: 3601 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!newncar!csn!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hp-mcm!hpmcdg.mcm.hp.com!daveg From: daveg@hpmcdg.mcm.hp.com (Dave Gembala) Subject: Pewter Casting Sender: news@mcm.hp.com (News System Administrator) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 20:48:52 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: hpmcdg.mcm.hp.com Organization: HP - Diagnostic Cardiology Bus. Unit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9] Lines: 30 I haven't been reading this group regularly, so forgive me if this is a common question. I have recently received information about a kit for casting those little pewter figures. It includes some sort of heating pot, some other useful tools, a figure mold of your choice, and a few small bars (pigs?) of pewter. The molds are made of a Silicon-Rubber compound. Does anyone have experience with this sort of set up? The info I have doesn't describe the equipment very well. I am wondering if this is only good for pewter or lead, or do you think that it can handle higher temp. metals (ie. silver or brass). They also sell tools and blank rubber molds. (I think that I would try to set my own SR around something that I'm trying to make castings of). How hard is this material to aquire and work with? My next step will probably be to write to the company for specifics, but an advanced knowledge of the process would be helpful. Thanks in advance. -- Dave Gembala | Hewlett-Packard, McMinnville | "Life is just a vivid dream daveg@hpmcdg.mcm.hp.com | In the mind of a Lima Bean" (503) 434-8279 TN | -IM,KH From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 Mon Feb 7 12:55:30 EST 1994 Article: 3602 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 From: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Date: 3 Feb 1994 16:36:38 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 33 Message-ID: <2ir96m$oct@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <2ipv5u$104@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <2iqp0c$ca4@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> Reply-To: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) NNTP-Posting-Host: eeyore.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, djenkins@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) says: >> How do I know if my compressor motor,which is 1 hp, is >> operating near it max? > >A typical compressor with a 1 hp motor is *very likely* to be running at >maximum capacity. A good check is to run it for 10 minutes or so, perhaps >running a tool or something, then try putting your hand on the motor casing >*carefully* - beware, it may be too hot! - if you can comfortably rest your >hand there but it is warm, then it's within its rating, but close to the >limit. If it's cool, then it's not struggling at all and might be happy >with extra load. However, if it's reluctant to start, then you've had it. > >CAUTION! Approach the motor casing with care, as a compressor motor is >likely to be very hot, right on the limits. You have been warned... don't >come crying to me... etc. Also, if the machine isn't well made or >maintained, there may be stray mains voltage about... > > >David Jenkins > >* I'd rather be steaming... * > Thanks, but I need a way to check that is not guess work. I think amperage is more likely to tell me what is going on. -- "Onward through the fog" - Power-Hitter bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu mburlage@heartland.bradley.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab03.wwc.edu!johnric Mon Feb 7 12:55:31 EST 1994 Article: 3603 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab03.wwc.edu!johnric From: johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding (cracks) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 18:04:29 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <1994Feb2.190953.8545@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: krh_krhlab03.wwc.edu In article <1994Feb2.190953.8545@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes: >From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) >Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding >Date: 2 Feb 94 19:09:53 GMT >Paul Compton -RESCU (compton@afrc.ac.uk) wrote: > >: When you weld a metal this involves melting the parent metal. > >This is true. > >: At the edge of the molten pool, as it meets solid metal you WILL get >: a crack, this is inevitable. > >I strongly disagree. Countless welds are made each day with no edge >cracks. Cracks are not allowed in any sort of certified welding process >which I am aware of. > The mandid not say how big the cracks will be, but he is correct in saying that there will be cracks. Go to your local college and take a class in materials. You will learn that ANY working be it forming, casting, forging, or welding will cause cracks. They may be very small but they are there. Rick From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!barney!david Mon Feb 7 12:55:32 EST 1994 Article: 3604 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!barney!david From: david@barney.UUCP (David Hoopes) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: knife making - novice Message-ID: <227@barney.UUCP> Date: 3 Feb 94 13:15:32 GMT References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> <1994Feb2.121249.24187@nomina.lu.se> Organization: Exabyte, Lenexa (Formerly Tallgrass Technologies) Lines: 31 johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: >In article <1994Feb2.121249.24187@nomina.lu.se> ralph@astol.astro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) writes: [snip snip] >>Once you really get into knife making it might be worth to buy a >>belt sander and save yourself a lot of time. >> >>Good luck! >> >>Ralph >>ralph@astro.lu.se > What kind of belt sander would you reccomend. I'm in the mood for >something cheap but useful. > > Rick I use a little bench top 1x30in belt sander. Mine has the delta brand name on it, but I have seen the exact same thing with several other brand names on them. I picked mine up when it was on sale. I think that I paid $59 for it. But the belts mail order. They are a lot less expensive then buying them at the hardware store. Buy them by the dozen. They will not last very long when you are grinding metal. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- David Hoopes Exabyte Corp. david@tallgrass.COM 11100 W 82nd St. Voice: (913) 492-6002 x3323 Lenexa, Ks 66214 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!xb8-144!juliar Mon Feb 7 12:55:33 EST 1994 Article: 3605 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!xb8-144!juliar From: juliar@xb8-144.Eng.Sun.COM (Julia Reuscher) Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine,alt.artcom,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Bronze Casting Workshop Date: 3 Feb 1994 01:36:25 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 45 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: xb8-144 Keywords: Bronze Casting Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.arts.fine:4065 alt.artcom:1652 rec.crafts.metalworking:3605 RT BRONZE CASTING WORKSHOP an Introductory Short Course A Studio Course for the Beginning Individal. Emphasis will be on Fundamental Procedures and Techniques used in all aspects of Lost Wax Casting (via Ceramic Shell). Wax Forming and Fabrication, Basic Mold Making, Foundary Procedures and Finishing will be covered. Conducted in the Artist's Studio environment. All works will be cast in Bronze. NO Prerequisites or Art Training/experience needed. Date/Time: April 26 - May 31, 1994 Tuesday evenings 7 - 10 pm ( 1 day per week for six weeks) Where: Studio #5, The Citadel 199 Martha Street San Jose CA 95112 Fee: $135.00 For further infomation call Jim Cabral (408) 287-6910 Also Intermediate/Advanced Workshops available. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap Mon Feb 7 12:55:34 EST 1994 Article: 3606 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.autos.tech Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) Subject: Source of Metric & fine-thread bolts ? Message-ID: <1994Feb3.211129.12431@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Originator: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 21:11:29 GMT Lines: 10 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.crafts.metalworking:3606 rec.autos.tech:53172 Does anyone know of a good source to buy a bolt bin that has metric (coarse & fine) and SAE fine thread bolts? I have a SAE coarse bolt bin, but I would like to have a larger assortment.... Email is preferred. Thanks, -Eric From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!butch!charybdis!longcore Mon Feb 7 12:55:35 EST 1994 Article: 3607 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!butch!charybdis!longcore From: longcore@charybdis (Jeff Ray Longcore) Subject: Re: knife making - novice Message-ID: Sender: news@butch.lmsc.lockheed.com Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Co. X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <2hma0q$8i5@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com> <2ip3an$u6n@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 21:58:58 GMT Lines: 30 DOUG SPECK (dspeck@ee.ryerson.ca) wrote: : As to books to get you started, I read one as a young teen, called Step- : by-Step Knife Making, by David(somebody) which was an excellent book. The book is by David Boye. It is still in print, or at least available. I just saw it in Lindsay's Tech Books catalog. For those of you who don't get it, the info is: Lindsay's Technical Books Lindsay Publications, Inc. P.O. Box 538 Bradley, IL 60915-0538 (815) 935-5353 : couldn't recommend it enough, and as far as I know, it is either still : in print, or only recently out of print. It is very detailed in its : explanations, and even goes into acid-etching the blade for decorative : purposes. It only covers the stock-removal method, no forging info, but : that is the only real way to start anyhow. GET HIM THIS BOOK! I agree. This is a nice book. : (I am in no way affiliated with the author, I just liked the book.) (Neither am I, So did I) - Jeff (longcore@lmsc.lockheed.com) #include From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!nac.no!nntp.nta.no!hal.nta.no!ohk Mon Feb 7 12:55:36 EST 1994 Article: 3608 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!bnr.co.uk!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!nac.no!nntp.nta.no!hal.nta.no!ohk From: ohk@hal.nta.no (Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen TF.DT/DELAB) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Message-ID: <1994Feb4.073253.12732@nntp.nta.no> Sender: news@nntp.nta.no Nntp-Posting-Host: tombola.nta.no Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research References: <1994Feb1.000742.21261@cascade.Stanford.EDU> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 07:32:53 GMT Lines: 80 In article , compton@afrc.ac.uk (Paul Compton -RESCU) writes: |> |> In article <1994Feb1.000742.21261@cascade.Stanford.EDU> eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes: |> |> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking |> Path: math.fu-berlin.de!zrz.TU-Berlin.DE!netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!unix.sri.com!headwall.Stanford.EDU!cascade.stanford.edu!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap |> From: eap@everest.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) |> Sender: news@cascade.Stanford.EDU (USENET News System) |> Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California |> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 00:07:42 GMT |> Lines: 29 |> |> harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes: |> >Eric Perozziello (eap@everest.Stanford.EDU) wrote: |> >: Why would race cars used brazed frames when there are stronger |> >: methods of attachment? |> |> >For one thing, at-track repairs can be made more easily (it's easier to |> >ensure the availability of a torch than a TIG). Also, the strength of |> >the joint doesn't matter as long as it's stronger than the base |> >material. A well designed and brazed joint will be significantly |> >stronger than the material being brazed. Also, cost is sometimes a |> >concern in racing vehicles, as not all racers have infinite budgets. |> |> >Ok, I'll buy the at-track repair part, but there's still no |> >reason the car can't be fabricated with, say, and Arc welder, |> >and then still repaired at the track with oxy-acetyline. |> |> >I would assume that the difference in cost between torch welded |> >and arc welded would be minor in ANy racer's budget, and if I, |> >as the welder, had a choice, I'd rather arc weld it. If I were |> >the driver, I'd also rather have an arc welded frame under me! |> |> When you weld a metal this involves melting the parent metal. |> At the edge of the molten pool, as it meets solid metal you WILL get |> a crack, this is inevitable. When dealing with race car frames you You will change the properties of the material for sure, but there is no reason you should get a crack. If you get cracks, you are either using the wrong equipment, technique or both. |> can be involved with some very thin sections, so small welds are needed |> to avoid stress raisers due to section change,ie no mig, your choice |> then comes down to gas weld, bronze weld, braze, or silver solder. |> I have been building various tube frames for several years and |> from experience can relate the following, on a road going sportscar |> I would probably build the frame from mostly 1 inch square 16 swg tube |> (16 swg is 1.6mm 1/16 inch, higher numbers are thinner, sorry, dont |> have the figures) and my preference would be to mig weld the frame. |> When I have to cut a frame to modify or repair it I would expect the |> cut member to spring a considerable distance out of position due to |> the stresses set up when made. For a race chassis I would use 18-20 |> swg and braze the frame,brazing is effectivly a high temperature |> soldering technique, a professional frame builder would bronze |> weld, as the name implies bronze WELDING melts the parent metal but |> unlike a conventional weld fills its own cracks and provides a smooth |> finnish reducing stress-raisers. This is also wrong. Bronze welding is also a form of brazing, and you are NOT melting the parent metal, at least not when working with steel. But as you say, bronze weldings does allow you to fill cracks better than brazing. |> Braze material is stronger than steel but will not stand |> bendin loads or 'peel'. A badly designed 'space' frame is best welded |> out of relativly thick section tube in order to accept the bending |> loads imposed, a correctly designed frame resolves all loads into |> tension and compression and is immensly strong. A 1960 Lotus formula |> One frame (bare) weighs approx 70 pounds and uses nothing heavier |> than 18 swg. |> |> |> |> |> -- |> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |> Paul Compton Rothamsted Experimental Station |> Harpenden, Herts. AL5 2JQ. UK |> e Harpenden, Herts. AL5 2JQ. UK |> e-mail: Paul.Compton@afrc.ac.uk +44 (0)582 763133 x2413 |> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!uniwa!nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au!cstone Mon Feb 7 12:55:37 EST 1994 Article: 3609 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!uniwa!nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au!cstone From: cstone@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au (Charlie Stone 4915162) Subject: Re: OLD ENGINES Organization: Network Computer Centre, Telecom, Perth Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 09:15:01 GMT Message-ID: <1994Feb4.091501.5385@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au> References: Lines: 34 In article thompson@psy.fsu.edu (Ron Thompson) writes: >HI, >I HAVE NOT SEEN MANY MESSAGES FROM ANTIQUE ENGINE COLLECTORS. THERE MUST BE >SEVERAL PEOPLE WITH GAS, STEAM OR HOT AIR ENGINES OUT THERE. THE ONLY THING >I HAVE AT PRESENT IS A 1926 KOHLER GENERATOR. IT IS A WATER-COOLED 3 1/2 HP, >4 CYLINDER WEIGHING 500 POUNDS. I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO ANYONE WHO HAS ONE >OR KNOWS OF ONE. I NEED A FEW PARTS TO RESTORE IT TO ORIGINAL CONDITION. > >THANKS, Ron >Ron Thompson | Internet: thompson@psy.fsu.edu >Psychology Dept. | Voice: 904-644-5563 >Florida State University | FAX: 904-644-7739 >Tallahassee, FL 32306-1051 For any one that might be interested in old machinery, there is a small business in Victoria Australia that sells books, decals and stuff related. It is mostly for agricultural machinery. They have a comprehensive catalogue that covers this also some good books on workshop practice, pyrotechnics, Aviation etc. It certainly is worth looking at (I liked it anyway) and has heaps of books on very old engines. The catalogue costs A$2.00 They are: Plough Book Sales P.O. Box 14 Belmont, Victoria 3216 Australia Phone 052 661262 Charlie Stone Perth Western Australia From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws Mon Feb 7 12:55:38 EST 1994 Article: 3610 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!billy.mlb.semi.harris.com!jws From: jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) Subject: Re: Motor Question References: <2ipv5u$104@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <2iqp0c$ca4@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> <2ir96m$oct@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 13:23:59 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: billy.mlb.semi.harris.com Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL Sender: news@mlb.semi.harris.com Message-ID: <1994Feb4.132359.5445@mlb.semi.harris.com> Lines: 15 The previous suggestion about checking the motor case for heat is about the best way to go. See, cheap compresors use cheap motors and run them right at the limit; often they specify a duty cycle maximum at rated output, and if you look at the poor little motor on a Sears compressor, it'll say "Compressor Duty" which seems to be a euphemism for "thermal cutout in 10, 9, 8, ....". Checking the motor current draw may tell you whether it's pulling near the rated (nameplate) current, but says nothing about the load vs. actual capability. Case temperature rise and the smell of roasting varnish are pretty reliable indicators of overstress. -- ########################################################################## #Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons # #living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-# #sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!# From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!maggie.austin.wireline.slb.com!detroit.austin.wireline.slb.com!user Mon Feb 7 12:55:39 EST 1994 Article: 3611 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!maggie.austin.wireline.slb.com!detroit.austin.wireline.slb.com!user From: mayhugh@austin.wireline.slb.com (Terry Mayhugh) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: English Wheel Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 4 Feb 1994 15:52:24 GMT Organization: Schlumberger, Austin TX Lines: 55 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: detroit.austin.slcs.slb.com I've been asked by a few to explain just exactly what an English wheel is: An English wheel is a tool that was invented about a hundred years ago for shaping sheet metal. It was used by the old English coach builders for shaping body panels for automobiles. The Cobra bodies built by AC in England during the sixties are one example of its past commercial use. I believe that it is still used by Lamborgini and some other European low-production high-buck car companies. (At least I saw them in the background of some photos of a Lamborgini production shop.) Today they are used by some shops to form body panels for NASCAR race cars and also by shops doing antique airplane restoration. They don't seem to be as popular for custom car work today as I had originally thought. Maybe because of the skill factor or maybe because there are power machines (planishing or power hammers) that perform the same tasks more efficiently. Anyway, the machine can be best described physically as a large vertical C-clamp (mine is 6-1/2 ft high with a 48" throat). At the top opening of the C-clamp is a yoke holding a large heavy metal wheel (mine is 9" dia and 4" wide) which is free to spin. On the bottom leg of the C-clamp is a heavy threaded yoke which holds a selection of smaller diameter (3") diameter wheels called anvils. The bottom yoke can be adjusted up in order to pinch the metal to be rolled between the upper and lower wheels. The top wheel is ground with a perfectly flat surface while the bottom anvils ( I machined 5) are ground on radii ranging from infinite (flat) to about 12". The thing works by rolling the panel back and forth with the panel pinched between the upper wheel and the lower wheel with just the right pressure and the correct lower wheel surface to shape the panel as needed. The metal is stretched at the area of contact between the 2 wheels and tends to take on the radius of the lower wheel surface. The operator skill comes in by knowing just how to bring this all together and form a panel to a desired template or buck without leaving anvil marks. When you know what you're doing the panel can come out with a perfectly smooth surface ready for painting and with just enough work hardening for added strength and durability. The wheel is usually used on steel or aluminum but it can be used on practically any other malleable metal. Large panels (>2'-3' sq) or panels with lots of complexity are often done in smaller pieces, welded together, and then planished to produce the complete panel.The real advantage of this tool is its ability to form compound shapes without the noise, expense, and upkeep of something like a power hammer. Some disadvantages, however, are operator skill level and perhaps speed. John Glover, who I mentioned in my original request, recently retired from the Concept Car Division of GM where he built prototype panels for many GM vehicles using the English wheel. He produced some fine tutorial videos on its use. Although you can learn much from viewing the tapes there are numerous questions that come up while acquiring a technique that I was hoping to find in a text. I placed my original request for help in the metal working, homemade aviational, and custom car groups, but so far only a few in the aviational group were even familiar with the tool. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 Mon Feb 7 12:55:40 EST 1994 Article: 3612 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 From: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Date: 4 Feb 1994 17:04:36 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 33 Message-ID: <2itv74$jgq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <2ipv5u$104@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <2iqp0c$ca4@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> <2ir96m$oct@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1994Feb4.132359.5445@mlb.semi.harris.com> Reply-To: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) NNTP-Posting-Host: piglet.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) says: > The previous suggestion about checking the motor case for heat is >about the best way to go. See, cheap compresors use cheap motors and >run them right at the limit; often they specify a duty cycle maximum >at rated output, and if you look at the poor little motor on a Sears >compressor, it'll say "Compressor Duty" which seems to be a euphemism >for "thermal cutout in 10, 9, 8, ....". Checking the motor current >draw may tell you whether it's pulling near the rated (nameplate) >current, but says nothing about the load vs. actual capability. >Case temperature rise and the smell of roasting varnish are pretty >reliable indicators of overstress. >-- >########################################################################## >#Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons # >#living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-# >#sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!# > With ammeters,voltmeters, and watt meters available, why all the guesswork? Current draw varies DIRECTLY with the load, and is a excellent indicator of what is happening. This motor cost me $150.00, and I do NOT want to destroy it to find the maximum load. The ratings printed on the motor are there just for the reason of telling you what should be going on. My compresser is not a 'cheap' one, I just need a couple of more cfm's from it.... -- "Onward through the fog" - Power-Hitter bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu mburlage@heartland.bradley.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce Mon Feb 7 12:55:41 EST 1994 Article: 3613 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce From: powers@cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: English Wheel Date: 4 Feb 1994 11:54:55 -0500 Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science Lines: 10 Message-ID: <2itukvINN1vl@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu You might try over on rec.org.sca. I know of two SCA people who built English wheels from scratch to make armor with. Its great for breastplates! Oh by the way; rec.org.sca is in a bit of a tizzy due to a sudden radical change in the bylaws by their Board of Directors; but don't be scared off. We're never too busy bitchin' to help out others. Thomas (aka Wilium the smith) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!umdac!cs.umu.se!tfymia Mon Feb 7 12:55:42 EST 1994 Article: 3614 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!umdac!cs.umu.se!tfymia From: tfymia@cs.umu.se (Mikael Andersson) Subject: Titanium knifes Message-ID: Keywords: crafts metal-working knifes titanium Sender: news@cs.umu.se (News Administrator) Organization: Dept. of Computing Science, Umea Univ., 901 87 UMEA SWEDEN Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 16:41:43 GMT Lines: 7 I saw an advertise in a divers magazine 'bout a knife which seemed to be of titanium . does anyone know anything 'bout titanium knifes ? Are there such things to buy ? are they sharp ? ... If u have any info on this please mail me (micke@venus.pe.umu.se) i will summarise ... From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!plasma.ps.uci.edu!dparsons Mon Feb 7 12:55:42 EST 1994 Article: 3615 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!plasma.ps.uci.edu!dparsons From: dparsons@plasma.ps.uci.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: OLD ENGINES Date: 4 Feb 1994 18:47:02 GMT Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 12 Message-ID: <2iu576$73t@news.service.uci.edu> References: <1994Feb4.165410.16726@dsea.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plasma.ps.uci.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Frank, Yeah, your right some people do get surprised by the date or supply of antiques, and I am not so high falootin' as to argue about the Western. As I posted before about and engine that I had for sale (antique). I took it to a parts swap and you should have heard some of the experts stories about what it was out of. :-) It ranged from a Franklin car that they only built a few of to a truck that was used by the navy by the millions durring WW2. The later it turns out to be true. Dave From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!batcomfs!rja Mon Feb 7 12:55:43 EST 1994 Article: 3616 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!batcomfs!rja From: rja@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: knife making - novice Date: 4 Feb 1994 17:44:19 GMT Organization: Sun Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <1994Feb2.121249.24187@nomina.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: batcomfs In article johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) writes: +In article <1994Feb2.121249.24187@nomina.lu.se> ralph@astol.astro.lu.se (Ralph Snel) writes: +> +>To come back to the original thread: +>One of my favourite books is "The Complete Bladesmith, forging your +>way to perfection" by Jim Hrisoulas. I don't have any details right +>now, but if you want ISBN numbers you can mail me and I'll get back +>to you. I am a dealer for Palladin Press, the publisher of the two books by Jim Hrisoulas. I don't normally stock them but I do place monthly orders with the publisher and can typically get the books within a couple of weeks of your order. For people's information, here are the current prices on the two books and video of Jim Hrisoulas: Forging Damascus [2 tape video of Jim Hrisoulas, over 3 hours] - 79.95 The Complete Bladesmith (book) - 30.00 The Master Bladesmith (book) - 45.00 Shipping is $6.00 per order. Sales tax applies if you are a California resident. Videos are non-returnable. -- Robert Allen, rja@sun.com DISCLAIMER: I said it, not my company. "The U.S. Constitution may be flawed, but it's a whole lot better than what we have now." From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!rsiatl!jgd Mon Feb 7 12:55:44 EST 1994 Article: 3617 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Motor Question Message-ID: <11!4!vq@dixie.com> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 94 06:44:11 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <2ir96m$oct@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Lines: 21 bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) writes: >Thanks, but I need a way to check that is not guess work. >I think amperage is more likely to tell me what is going on. Nope, sorry. The amps approach FLA quite a bit before the motor is fully loaded. What changes near FL is power factor. The only way to tell without guessing is to put a wattmeter inline and measure the power consumption. Ain't no other way. Lacking a wattmeter, measuring the winding temperature is the next best bet. Oh, and try not to quote whole articles in order to add 2 lines. Thanks. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com Performance Engineering Magazine. "Dr. Kevorkian, please report to the Oval Office." From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!apple.com!amd!netcomsv!dsea!frank Mon Feb 7 12:55:45 EST 1994 Article: 3618 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!apple.com!amd!netcomsv!dsea!frank From: frank@dsea.com (Frank Evan Perdicaro) Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Message-ID: <1994Feb4.163555.16608@dsea.com> Keywords: treadle Organization: Dainippon Screen Engineering of America, Inc. References: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 16:35:55 GMT Lines: 20 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:32416 rec.crafts.metalworking:3618 In article stevenj@microsoft.com (Steven Johnson) writes: >I'm interested in the history of old treadle-powered machinery >(including scroll saws, lathes, sewing machines, tablesaws, drills, >etc. etc.). However, I haven't been able to find a good book or >information source on the companies that made these machines, histories >of their inventors, or reprints from companies catalogs that describe >these machines. I know there are hundreds (or at least dozens) of these >types of books for planemakers --isn't there something similar for >these machines? Some of Eric Sloane's books ( no longer in print, right? ) cover treadle machines. Also, at least one of Ron Roszkiewicz's books covers treadle machines in brief. ( Ron works here, contact me if you really get stuck. ) My wife has, and uses, a treadle Singer sewing machine -- does that count? -- Frank Evan Perdicaro Dainippon Screen Engineering of America Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today. 3700 Segerstrom Ave inhouse: frank@rebel, x210 Santa Ana CA 92704 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!apple.com!amd!netcomsv!dsea!frank Mon Feb 7 12:55:47 EST 1994 Article: 3619 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!apple.com!amd!netcomsv!dsea!frank From: frank@dsea.com (Frank Evan Perdicaro) Subject: Re: OLD ENGINES Message-ID: <1994Feb4.165410.16726@dsea.com> Organization: Dainippon Screen Engineering of America, Inc. References: <2ip8af$l1r@news.service.uci.edu> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 16:54:10 GMT Lines: 38 In article <2ip8af$l1r@news.service.uci.edu> dparsons@plasma.ps.uci.edu () writes: >Ron Thompson (thompson@psy.fsu.edu) wrote: >: HI, >: I HAVE NOT SEEN MANY MESSAGES FROM ANTIQUE ENGINE COLLECTORS. THERE MUST BE >: SEVERAL PEOPLE WITH GAS, STEAM OR HOT AIR ENGINES OUT THERE. > >Where have you been? A couple of months ago I was looking for someone to talk >to about the Western 200 I have adopted. I'm glad to see another engine buff >on the net! I had an engine for sale too. > >I am part of a museum where I am restoring a Western 200. The last of it's >kind. It's a 2 cylinder 200 hp monster. Weighing in at 28,000 pounds with >it's 7 foot flywheel. I almost have it ready to start. > You two would probably die if you went to the working "Transportation Museme" on the central coast in Maine. No, I do not remember the town right now, but all they do is fix antique engines and put them into antique applications. Planes, cars, motorcycles, pumps, generators, boats, locomotives and whacked-out things you would never think of. I think you can get there by boat, but you certainly can drive or fly in ( I've done both ). Dave: there is an engine much like you are describing in Chelmsford, MA. It is in a old mill rehabed to be a shopping/eating place, I think it is called "The Mill". Its just outside North Chelmsford Center. Your "last of its kind" statement reminds me of my father-in-law's trip to some high zoot rail museme in Penn. The showpiece was a recenly restored "only one in the world" locomotive. Until Bob pointed out that there is one at Clark's Trained Bears in rural northern New Hampshire that has been in use once in a while for the last 30 years. Some folks were very suprised. -- Frank Evan Perdicaro Dainippon Screen Engineering of America Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today. 3700 Segerstrom Ave inhouse: frank@rebel, x210 Santa Ana CA 92704 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Mon Feb 7 12:55:48 EST 1994 Article: 3620 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 4 Feb 1994 22:02:53 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 50 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <2ir96m$oct@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <11!4!vq@dixie.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article <11!4!vq@dixie.com>, jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) wrote: > > bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) writes: > > The only way to > tell without guessing is to put a wattmeter inline and measure the > power consumption. Ain't no other way. That's only one way of determining power input to the motor. You can use a voltmeter, and ammeter, and some way of determining phase, such as either a phase meter or an oscilloscope, to accomplish the same purpose. However, power input is irrelevant to motor heating. > Lacking a wattmeter, > measuring the winding temperature is the next best bet. > Motor heating is caused by I**2 * R heating in the windings, I**2 * R heating due to eddy currents, hysteresis losses in the iron, and friction and windage. Of these, power input is only indirectly related to the major component, which is I**2 * R losses. Only the first loss is variable to the first approximation. Eddy current losses and hysteresis losses are functions of voltage and frequency, and friction and windage losses are functions of rpm, which is indirectly a function of frequency. Current heating in the windings is directly a function of current and indirectly a function of power insofar as power increases as input current. Consequently, motor current *is* the appropriate variable to measure. However, if the compressor is well-designed in the first place, installing a larger motor pulley to run the pump faster is probably a bad idea. There is no way you can get more net average power out of the motor without increasing the heating, and if the motor is running at rating when the pump shuts down at highest pressure, the only advantage a larger pulley will give you is more CFM for a short time at the expense of lower efficiency, smaller percent-on duty cycle, and more rapid and higher temperature excursions. Therefore, it's appropriate to measure motor current just before shutoff and compare that with motor ratings. The motor should be rated (if it's a good motor as claimed) typically for 40 degrees C rise in a 40 degree C ambient at 1.15 load factor (to allow for start stop operation). You can run the motor more heavily loaded in a low ambient, and you can use the 1.15 load factor if the motor will run continuously. However, if the compressor designers did their job correctly, they will have already factored this into the design. Very probably, all you will achieve is lower average CFM, with slightly higher peak CFM, and shorter motor and compressor life. Beats me why you want to Searsify your compressor. G. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 Mon Feb 7 12:55:49 EST 1994 Article: 3621 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 From: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Date: 4 Feb 1994 23:58:52 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 65 Message-ID: <2iunfs$lb2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <2ir96m$oct@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <11!4!vq@dixie.com> Reply-To: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) NNTP-Posting-Host: eeyore.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) says: >In article <11!4!vq@dixie.com>, jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) wrote: >> >> bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) writes: >> >> The only way to >> tell without guessing is to put a wattmeter inline and measure the >> power consumption. Ain't no other way. > >That's only one way of determining power input to the motor. You can use a >voltmeter, and ammeter, and some way of determining phase, such as either a >phase meter or an oscilloscope, to accomplish the same purpose. However, >power input is irrelevant to motor heating. > >> Lacking a wattmeter, >> measuring the winding temperature is the next best bet. >> > >Motor heating is caused by I**2 * R heating in the windings, I**2 * R >heating due to eddy currents, hysteresis losses in the iron, and friction >and windage. Of these, power input is only indirectly related to the major >component, which is I**2 * R losses. Only the first loss is variable to >the first approximation. Eddy current losses and hysteresis losses are >functions of voltage and frequency, and friction and windage losses are >functions of rpm, which is indirectly a function of frequency. Current >heating in the windings is directly a function of current and indirectly a >function of power insofar as power increases as input current. > >Consequently, motor current *is* the appropriate variable to measure. > >However, if the compressor is well-designed in the first place, installing >a larger motor pulley to run the pump faster is probably a bad idea. There >is no way you can get more net average power out of the motor without >increasing the heating, and if the motor is running at rating when the pump >shuts down at highest pressure, the only advantage a larger pulley will >give you is more CFM for a short time at the expense of lower efficiency, >smaller percent-on duty cycle, and more rapid and higher temperature >excursions. > >Therefore, it's appropriate to measure motor current just before shutoff >and compare that with motor ratings. The motor should be rated (if it's a >good motor as claimed) typically for 40 degrees C rise in a 40 degree C >ambient at 1.15 load factor (to allow for start stop operation). You can >run the motor more heavily loaded in a low ambient, and you can use the >1.15 load factor if the motor will run continuously. However, if the >compressor designers did their job correctly, they will have already >factored this into the design. Very probably, all you will achieve is >lower average CFM, with slightly higher peak CFM, and shorter motor and >compressor life. Beats me why you want to Searsify your compressor. > >G. > Thanks for an answer that does'nt require smoke on my part! I just want to be sure I'm getting the most out of my motor. I've learned to ask someone who's done it, before I do it!!!!!!!!!! Thank to all who have written and posted. -- "Onward through the fog" - Power-Hitter bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu mburlage@heartland.bradley.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!srgenprp!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry Mon Feb 7 12:55:50 EST 1994 Article: 3622 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!srgenprp!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!news1.boi.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvusn!harry From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding (cracks) Message-ID: <1994Feb4.235843.3144@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> Sender: nobody@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com (Nobody - UID must be 99999) Nntp-Posting-Host: hpcvxhp.cv.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.9] References: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 23:58:43 GMT Lines: 27 RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON (johnric@saturn.wwc.edu) wrote: : In article <1994Feb2.190953.8545@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes: : >I strongly disagree. Countless welds are made each day with no edge : >cracks. Cracks are not allowed in any sort of certified welding process : >which I am aware of. : > : The mandid not say how big the cracks will be, but he is correct in : saying that there will be cracks. Go to your local college and take a class : in materials. Thanks for the advice, but I happen to have been there already. I hold a BS in mechanical engineering and my study emphasis was in materials science and physical metallurgy. I worked through a senior sequence in general materials science, plus another in physical metallurgy, and in the process earned a student award from the ASTM. : You will learn that ANY working be it forming, casting, : forging, or welding will cause cracks. They may be very small but they are : there. This is simply not true unless you try to count dislocations and/or grain boundaries as "cracks", which would lead to you declaring cracks in any and all polycrystalline metallic materials, regardless of the working history. This would be a fairly useless definition of the work "crack". Harry Phinney harry@cv.hp.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Mon Feb 7 12:55:52 EST 1994 Article: 3623 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Hydraulic tracer lathe Message-ID: <2irmhk$nui@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: 3 Feb 94 20:24:20 GMT References: <2ikbnf$5lv@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com In article 5lv@nntpd.lkg.dec.com, ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (Ron Ginger) writes: > > > The cross feed screw is removed so the slide is free to slide back and forth. A > pointer is attached to the slide to ride against the profile of the template. > The compound is used to apply the cut depth, and simple hand pressure against > the slide forces it against the template. Apply power feed and let it go. ^^^^^^^^^^ A lot depends on what you're trying to do. In my current case, I need ~24 BRASS cannon for a ship model -- 2"long x 1/4 dia. My FINEST feed is 100 tpi...200 turns will go from one end to the other. Being SMALL-diameter brass, I need a high speed (say 3000 rpm). If I use the power feed, the entire cut is done in 1/15th second! If I let the stock hang WAY out to give me more time, it whips. I end up avoiding power feed, and do it by hand. JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!bgsuvax!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Mon Feb 7 12:55:52 EST 1994 Article: 3624 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!bgsuvax!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: Hydraulic tracer lathe Organization: AT&T Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 14:44:33 GMT Message-ID: References: <2irmhk$nui@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Lines: 29 >From article <2irmhk$nui@tymix.Tymnet.COM>, by kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305): > In article 5lv@nntpd.lkg.dec.com, ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (Ron Ginger) writes: >> >> >> The cross feed screw is removed so the slide is free to slide back and forth. A >> pointer is attached to the slide to ride against the profile of the template. >> The compound is used to apply the cut depth, and simple hand pressure against >> the slide forces it against the template. Apply power feed and let it go. > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > A lot depends on what you're trying to do. > > In my current case, I need ~24 BRASS cannon for a ship model -- 2"long x 1/4 > dia. My FINEST feed is 100 tpi...200 turns will go from one end to the other. > Being SMALL-diameter brass, I need a high speed (say 3000 rpm). If I use the > power feed, the entire cut is done in 1/15th second! If I let the stock hang > WAY out to give me more time, it whips. I assume you mean 1/15 of a minute (200 revolutions / 3000 R/Minute), but that is still very fast. 100 TPI is .010"/rev, which is a fairly high feed as the smallest value. I think my South Bend has feeds less than .001"/rev. Are you sure there isn't a way to set up slower feeds? Is it a QC or a manual change? As an alternative, you can of course cut brass at slower speeds. It will just take more time. You may not get the surface finish you want at .010"/rev, however. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Mon Feb 7 12:55:53 EST 1994 Article: 3625 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Electo-Plating References: <2igvrv$hqh@panix2.panix.com> <2ir65a$olt@panix.com> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 14 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 17:57:18 +0000 Message-ID: <760471038snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <2ir65a$olt@panix.com> moskowit@panix.com "Len Moskowitz" writes: > That's serious overkill. Much electroplating is done with power > supplies putting out 12 Volts or less. A car battery is fine and I do > some brush plating with two penlight (AA) cells. Some of the nicest batteries for electro plating were the old zinc carbon cells from a phone exchange. 1.5V on each cell, and as they were each the size of a wine bottle they lasted for ever. AFAIK, they were rotated out of the exchange on a time basis, rather than discharge state, as there always seemed (in my youth) to be plenty of good condition ones around in the surplus shops. -- Andy Dingley Codesmiths of Newcastle dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Mon Feb 7 12:55:54 EST 1994 Article: 3626 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Afghan Rifles Message-ID: <2iubnu$k07@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: 4 Feb 94 20:38:22 GMT References: Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com In article 9pF@mcs.anl.gov, shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer) writes: > > I have heard that the Afghan rebels built their own rifles with very > little in the way of tools. The question that has always bothered me > however is how did they rifle the barrels. Does anyone have any > insight? > > mike There is a video put out by Colonial Williamsburg that slows how a rifle is built using 17th century technology. It shows the forging and rifling of the barrels. See if your library has it, or can get it for you. JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!crash!danr Mon Feb 7 12:55:55 EST 1994 Article: 3627 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!crash!danr From: danr@crash.cts.com (Dan Rubesh) Subject: Re: OLD ENGINES Organization: CTS Network Services (CTSNET/crash), San Diego, CA Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 03:54:14 GMT Message-ID: References: <2ip8af$l1r@news.service.uci.edu> Sender: news@crash.cts.com (news subsystem) Nntp-Posting-Host: crash.cts.com Lines: 42 In article <2ip8af$l1r@news.service.uci.edu>, wrote: >Ron Thompson (thompson@psy.fsu.edu) wrote: >: HI, >: I HAVE NOT SEEN MANY MESSAGES FROM ANTIQUE ENGINE COLLECTORS. THERE MUST BE >: SEVERAL PEOPLE WITH GAS, STEAM OR HOT AIR ENGINES OUT THERE. > >Where have you been? A couple of months ago I was looking for someone to talk >to about the Western 200 I have adopted. I'm glad to see another engine buff >on the net! I had an engine for sale too. > >I am part of a museum where I am restoring a Western 200. The last of it's >kind. It's a 2 cylinder 200 hp monster. Weighing in at 28,000 pounds with >it's 7 foot flywheel. I almost have it ready to start. > >Dave Parsons > The Western sounds like quite an engine!! I have an old Fairbanks-Morse "Z" engine, horizontal single, 3hp@ something under 500 rpm that I restored a few (Hmmm.. maybe 20) years ago.. It had seen service into the late '50s as a pump engine on a ranch.. This one is somewhat unusual in that it has a condenser attached to the cooling system so that the water is condensed and returned to the reservoir rather than going off into atmosphere as steam.. I was told that that design was originally used to power track maintenance cars on the railroads.. I used to belong to an association of collectors that was based in Vista Calif, the Southern California Early Days Gas and Tractor Assn.. (quite a mouthful).. They have a large museum in Vista, CA and had shows every few months, as I recall.. They would probably be a good source of information.. I've lost track of their address/phone but directory assistance should have it.. 619 area code.. -- Good Winds and Tight Lines! Dan Rubesh AKA Member/Merchant Wind Wizard, Purveyor of UUCP: {ucsd, nosc}!crash!danr GO Stunt Kites & Accessories ARPA: crash!danr@nosc.mil FLY A P.O. Box 5747 INET: danr@crash.cts.com STUNT Ventura, CA 93005 (805) 659-5654 KITE! Member: Kite Trade Assn. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail Mon Feb 7 12:55:57 EST 1994 Article: 3628 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!not-for-mail From: robertl@panix.com (Rob Liebowitz) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Help with bronze sculpture? Date: 6 Feb 1994 00:20:55 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 9 Message-ID: <2j1unn$kdn@panix2.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com Hello, I am about to purchase a large bronze sculpture. There are some white specs on the piece that I'm somewhat concerned about. Can anyone offer me any advice about how to authenticate bronze art or where I can find more information? Thanks, Rob -- ______________________________________________________________________________ Robert C. Liebowitz robertl@panix.com Graphic Design bob5389@aol.com ______________________________________________________________________________ From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Mon Feb 7 12:55:58 EST 1994 Article: 3629 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 0 of 4 Message-ID: <1994Feb1.131255.1315@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Feb 94 13:12:55 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 0: Introduction to this month's FAQ Keywords: FAQ Expires: 28 Feb 94 13:12:56 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 15 I am about to post the latest revision to the FAQ. Let me know if this needs to get split into more parts, e.g. due to news system limitations on item size. Changes: Added #26, dealing with leather drive belts Expanded lathe discussions, with reviews of Harbor Freight unit Keep the suggestions coming in! Jim Kirkpatrick jimkirk@uwyo.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Mon Feb 7 12:56:05 EST 1994 Article: 3630 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 1 of 4 Message-ID: <1994Feb1.131308.1316@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Feb 94 13:13:08 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 1 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 28 Feb 94 13:13:09 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 831 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 1 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? 26. How do I repair/replace this old leather belt? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. The following is the original rec.crafts.metalworking charter, for reference. Charter ------- Charter -- REC.CRAFTS.METALWORKING The USENET newsgroup, rec.crafts.metalworking, is a newsgroup which discusses various aspects of working with metal, such as (but not limited to): machining, as on a lathe, milling machine, grinder, etc.; numerical control of such machines; welding, whether by gas, arc, mig, tig, thermite, or other methods; Metal joining, whether welding, brazing, soldering, riveting, screwing, folding, etc. (this section was added during the discussion) casting various metals by various methods; hardening/tempering various metals; blacksmithing/forging; spinning and hammer work; sheet metal work; jewelry-making; purchasing and/or reconditioning metalworking tools and machinery; interesting projects; books on metal technologies and history; Example areas of interest: knife/sword making; automotive repair; steam engine (model/scale, though full-sized discussions are welcome!); art work, such as bronze castings and sculptures; gunsmithing; toolmaking, such as for woodworking, further metalworking, etc.; While the bulk of the discussion will probably be directed towards small-scale "home" shops, industrial/production discussions are also quite welcome. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. If you have access to Bitnet and are interested in clocks/watches, there is a CLOCKS list. Send mail to LISTSERV@SUVM on Bitnet, containing the command "SUBSCRIBE CLOCKS your name". Their "charter" is: Welcome to the CLOCKS Listserv list. This is a new attempt at communicating information about clocks between those interested in ANY aspect of clocks. To quote from the header text for CLOCKS: > * Clock/Watch Repair, Collecting, and Construction > > CLOCKS is a discussion list dealing with any and all aspects of > clock and watch work. > > The list's primary goal is to discuss the collecting, > construction, and repair of both clocks and watches. Included > also are topics on the history of time keeping, wooden movements, > water clocks, antique and modern clocks, etc. Of great interest > is information about suppliers of repair and construction parts > and techniques, information, books, newsletters, national and > local associations. Another interest is the use of clock/watch > tools, such as the watchmakers lathe, bushing replacement, time > regulation, etc. > > The list welcomes the participation and contribution from anyone > interested in the subject area, whether an amateur, beginner, or > professional. I can't give you a cookbook approach on how to get to Bitnet if you aren't on it. This varies from site to site, so you should ask your system administrator "how do I get e-mail to/from Bitnet?" As one example, at our Internet site, we add ".bitnet" on the end, so for us the address would be LISTSERV@SUVM.BITNET. There is also a Usenet newsgroup rec.woodworking that may be of interest to people who read rec.crafts.metalworking. 3. What are some good books on metalworking? - How to Run a Lathe South Bend Lathe 400 W. Sample Street South Bend, IN 46623 This book is available from South Bend distributors, such as Blue Ridge, and/or Lindsay. It was originally printed in 1914 and last updated in 1966, I believe. - Machine-Tool Work, by William P Turner and Halsey F Owen. 1932 and 1945 (hence no ISBN number). Some libraries may still have a copy, though you're probably out of luck for a purchase. Moderately good text, very good diagrams and pictures, especially of huge special-purpose machines like railroad wheel grinders. Suffers a bit from age, and seems intended for large industrial shops, but a good read if you find it. - Machine Shop Theory and Practice, by Albert M Wagener and Harlan R Arthur. 1941 (hence no ISBN number). Some libraries may still have a copy, though you're probably out of luck for a purchase. Fairly good text, more specific techniques than the Turner/Owen book. Suffers a bit from age, but still a nice instructional book. - Lathe Operations, by Richard R. Kibbe. 1985, ISBN 0-471-89023-5. Adapted from materials originally prepared by the Engineering Industry Training Board of Great Britain. Also in the same series: Milling Machine Operations, and Grinding Machine Operations. A step-by-step text with about 2 photos and lots of simple but usually-clear drawings. Shows how to do most any common lathe operation (and a few uncommon ones) in as few words as possible. Check page 90 for what seems to be a man with two right hands. - The Making of Tools, by Alexander G Weygers Prentice Hall Press, 1973, ISBN 0-671-60924-6 A modern book about doing things the old way. How the artist/craftsperson can design, make, sharpen and temper tools. May be available from Centaur Forge. - Machinery's Handbook A standard reference book for machinists, available from most distributors of machines or tools. - Clockmaking & Modelmaking; tools and techniques by W.R. Smith Mr. Smith has published other books on clockmaking, but this one covers more than just clocks, and is thus of interest to more than just clock-makers. This is a collection of articles from the British Horological Journal, Timecraft, Model Engineer, and Horological Times. The articles have been updated and expanded for inclusion in this 112-page coil-bound book. For a complete review, see HSM Jan/Feb 1992, page 14. Available from Gateway Clocks (see names/addresses section), $27 post-paid within USA (overseas buyers add $5 for postage). - Elmer's Engines, by Elmer Verberg available from Modeltec Has many very nice, and fairly easy to build stationary steam engines. - Model Locomotive and Marine Boilers [Argus Press, 1988, ISBN 0-85242-923-1] by Martin Evans (well known in the Model Engineering field, at least in Great Britain) - THE MACHINIST's BEDSIDE READER Guy Lautard 2570 Rosebery Avenue West Vancouver, B.C., Canada V7V 2Z9 (Guy's books are also available from other suppliers, such as Village Press, I believe. J.K.) Contains: Working drawings and detailed instructions for making 15 useful and practical machinists tools and lathe accessories; dozens of hints, tips and tricks to help get things done faster, easier and better in your shop; a collection of 2 dozen machine shop anecdotes; 2 highly readable machinists short stories. Projects include: a sharpening jig for drill from 1/8 to #60, a swiveling base for a 2" Wilton vise, a graduated handwheel for the lathe leadscrew.........and many more THE MACHINIST"S SECOND BEDSIDE READER Similar in format to the first book; projects include: a small pantograph engraving machine, a tool maker's block, poor man's jig borer and a kerosene-burning blowtorch....... also a short story titled "The Bullseye Mixture" which details the method for barbon pack color casehardening. Other books and plans by Lautard (not a complete list): "Hey Tim, I gotta tell ya....' a mini Bedside Reader" "A Brief treatise on Oiling Machine Tools" "3.75' Diameter Ungeared Rotary Table" "Universal Sleeve Clamp" Lautard's targeted readership seems to be the home machinist. I'm sure that much of what he has to say may be "old hat" to a skilled machinist with many years experience. I confess that I am a rank amateur in machine shop practice (my only professional experience was as a part-time helper in a gunsmith shop where the machine I got to know best was the polishing wheel). The flyer I quote from is available from Lautard at the address I gave with my last posting. [reviews and typing courtesy of Michael Gordon] It has also been reported that Guy sells an index of some sort, either of all projects or all articles, in the back issues of Model Engineer. However, the index is reportedly hard to use. See the description of Model Engineer, elsewhere. - The Surface Treatment and Finishing of Aluminum and its Alloys, Edited by S. Wernick, R. Pinner, and P.G. Sheasby. Published 1987 by ASM International, Metals Park, Ohio. 2 volumes. Mentioned in sci.materials in response to a "how do I anodize aluminum" question. - Electroplating for the Amateur, by L. Warburton. Model & Allied Publications Available via Argus (see names & addresses section) Also mentioned, in rec.crafts.metalworking, regarding anodizing. - Machine Tool Practices, fourth edition, John Wiley and Sons. Covers a lot of ground and is the first-year book at DeAnza College. -------------------------------------------------------------------- The following suggested books pertain to jewelry-making, per Sherry Lem. The Complete Metalsmith Tim McCreight Davis Publications, Inc. Worcester, MA, 1991 Excellent, easy to follow techniques for beginning to intermediate levels, this is the revised edition which is much improved over the original. Contemporary Jewelry Philip Morton Holt, Rinehart & Winston NY, 1970, 1976 Interesting design philosophy, techniques. Design and Creation of Jewelry Robert vonNeumann Chilton Radnor, PA, 1961, 1972 Form Emphasis for Metalsmiths Heikki Seppa Kent State University Press Kent, OH 1978 Perhaps THE book on anticlastic raising/forming, though difficult to teach yourself from the pictures and instructions. Jewelry Concepts and Technology Oppi Untracht Doubleday & Company Garden City, NY, 1982, 1985 Most comprehensive guide on jewelry making techniques, also contains gemological data, info on setting up a workshop . Jewelry: Contemporary Design and Technique Chuck Evans Davis Publications Worcester, MA, 1983 Especially good sections on mixed metals (mokume gane, etc.). Jewelry Making and Design Augustus F. Rose and Antonio Cirino Dover Publications, Inc. NY, 1949, 1967 Decidedly English flavor, very inexpensively priced. Jewelry Making Manual Sylvia Wicks Brymorgen Press Cape Elizabeth, ME, 1986 Beautiful color photos, good technique instructions. Jewelry Manufacture and Repair Charles Jarvis Bonanza, NY, 1978 Metal Sculpture - New Forms New Techniques John Lynch The Viking Press NY, NY Basic art metal techniques. Metal Techniques for Craftsmen Oppi Untracht Doubleday & Company Garden City, NY, 1968 -------------------------------------------------------------------- How about video tapes? - New Life Video Productions P.O. Box 175 Traverse City, MI 49685 Several tapes with Rudy Kouhoupt, frequent author in HSM and other magazines. Titles such as "Fundamentals of Machine Lathe Operation," "How to Cut Spur Gears," "How to Cut Threads" and others. Price varies from tape to tape. Production qualities seem poor (based on viewing the first title), such as poor and inconsistent audio, including a radio playing in the background. But you can safely ignore this and concentrate on what Rudy is trying to show you. Seems reasonably priced for the material covered. - Baily Craftsman Supply P.O. Box 276, Dept HSM Fulton, MO 65251 One tape so far, "Greensand Casting Techniques" from David Gingery's workshop. HSM seemed to like it. - Colonial Williamsburg (sorry, no address at this moment) CW produces several tapes on blacksmithing, silversmithing, gunsmithing, and so on. They show the "old time" way of doing things, but are reported to be excellent. 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? Who makes good cars? This is almost purely a personal preference, though in general the imported machines (Grizzly, Jet, Enco) seem to rate lower than US-built machines (South Bend, Bridgeport). However, the imports are usually MUCH less expensive, offsetting some of the quality issues for home shops. It has also been reported that South Bend has been going "downhill" lately. There is some indication that Grizzly equipment is slightly better than other "Taiwanese" machines. One of the main complaints about Taiwanese machinery is the lack of replacement parts and service. Grizzly claims that they keep a supply of parts on hand for all their machines. The same factories appear to turn out Grizzly, Jet, Delta, and the "no-name" machinery. A few years ago Fine Woodworking magazine published an article on this subject. Unimats are sometimes considered "toys" rather than real machines, though they may do just what you want if you don't push them hard. The Unimat PC may be a nice small CNC lathe; any experiences? Unimat, Sherline, and Taig are "micro lathes" in that the swing over the bed is less than 5 inches, and the bed is about a foot long. Sherline and Taig are made in the US, and Unimat is made in Austria (and hence uses metric threads, e.g. in the spindle thread, which may be a pain to US buyers). Sherline and Taig both use 3/4 inch x 16 threads in the spindle and can thus interchange accessories. The Taig cannot cut threads, while the Sherline and Unimat can (with accessories). Sherline and Unimat sell a milling add-on. The Taigs come in unbundled kit form where you have to buy everything; they claim an overall accuracy of .0004 inch and have excellent parts and service, and also sell a watchmaking headstock. Taig is the cheapest at about $250 to get started, about $450 for Sherline. It appears the only Unimat now being sold is the CNC "Unimat PC", at about $750. Unimat seems to charge quite a bit more than normal for accessories. Just keep in mind that these are not as rigid or powerful as full-sized lathes. Harbor Freight sells a "precision 4x10" mini-lathe for around $700 with autofeed, change gears for most english threads at extra cost. It is actually a 7" lathe which takes standard 2MT tailstock tooling and 3/8" cutting tools, and has Electronic Variable Speed (EVS) instead of changeable belts. This is larger and sturdier than the Unimat/Sherline/Taig, and sounds similar to the 8" Grizzly except for the EVS. What can you do if you have little money? Aside from looking at used equipment, you can actually build a lathe and other machine tools. Dave Gingery wrote an excellent series of books on building your own machine tools with just hand tools. While it's a lot of work, you can learn a lot. First you make an aluminum charcoal foundry, then a lathe, and finish up with a dividing head (five or six books later). Other authors have published detailed plans for making lathes. See the publisher's catalogs from Lindsay, Cole's, Power Model, Tee, and Argus. A very thorough discussion of vertical mills and what to look for was in Home Shop Machinist, July/August and September/October 1993. ........................................ The following comments, regarding the Central Machinery (Harbor Freight Salvage) "Precision 7"x10" Mini Lathe", were originally sent to John Kopf in response to a query of his, asking the opinions of this versus the Grizzley 8x18 lathe. Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 09:40:15 CST From: I own a 7 x 10 mini-lathe offered by Harbor Freight. First, the good points. Compact size useful for relatively large turnings...easy to move/store....tight headstock bearings....nice 3-jaw Yamakawa (japanese) chuck....good cross-feed and compound feed...good accuracy overall... Mt2 tailstock compatability...fun to use...3/4" hole in spindle.... quiet without feed engaged....relatively easy to set-up tooling... cuts threads.....has chip tray...uses cheap 3/8 tooling. Now for the down side....motor on mine with a Dremel speed control substituted for the factory setup has good high-speed power but is lacking in low-speed torque....my set-up produces surges of rpm occasionally... newer version appear to have 2-speed setup that may help... HF parts supply is limited....I could not get jaws for the chuck (I need inside gripping because they were missing..used equipment!)...feed screw is poorly mounted/designed and uses up a lot of available power.....split nut on carriage is prone to disengage...the motor is 120V DC fed by a rectifier and that may be part of my problem.. manual carriage feed wheel/mechanism is not smooth and perhaps needs bushed. Overall, I love it because I bought it used needing some repairs for $95. Enco in Chicago now offers it for $1000. They are more reputable than HF IMHO. They also cannot provide my jaws or a specifically designed 4-jaw. If I paid $800 I would want the split-nut and RPM/POWER problems completely eliminated. After my initial $95, I have spent about $65 for a live center and tools from Enco. I use it weekly and am learning a lot. A friend who is a lathe operator has used it and is impressed. I hope this helps. If you buy one and find solutions/parts, keep me posted. Gordon Pari Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 14:48:23 -0800 From: Greg Saville Just one comment, if you end up ordering the Harbor Freight one, DON'T order the $43.00 threading gear set. Though it's not clear in the catalog, it already DOES come with the lathe (unless you order the ~$550 version that says same as above, but without threading capability.) Thinking I needed it to do threads, I ordered it too and now have two sets of threading gears. I suppose I could have returned one set, but didn't bother. I've enjoyed the lathe, have been pretty happy with it, but have no other experience to be able to compare it to any other like the Grizzly you're also looking at. gregs Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 14:18:01 EST From: fisher@gaas.enet.dec.com I purchased one of these mini-lathes this summer. Since then I have read a few books and learned much about lathes. If I had to do it over again I would purchase the Grizzly "8"x18" Lathe you mentioned. I kinda like the mini-lathe for 1) the size and 2) the variable speed motor. What I don't like is 1) Support (I had a bent shaft on my cross slide and called them back within 48 hours after receiving the lathe and I still haven't received the replacement part - I think they ordered it from Korea.), 2) It is sufficiently non-standard that Nobody makes a 4 jaw chuck for it or any other bolt on accessories such as a steady rest or a follow rest. But it seems to work and I have been having fun with it and learning. The size is great - I just finished cutting about 50 brass port holes for a model tub boat. 5. Where do I buy a machine? Check out the Yellow Pages, the ads in the magazines, and catalogs from the "names and addresses" section elsewhere in this FAQ. For example: Blue Ridge Machinery and Tools, Inc Alley Supply Company Enco Grizzly 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? - The Home Shop Machinist (HSM), "dedicated to precision metalworking" Published 6/year by Village Press (see addresses section), $24.50/year. Note that many back issues are not available, though most of the projects are available in the "Projects" book series. Mostly techniques, no steam, some gasoline engine projects, many tooling projects. Probably the best of the US magazines. Some projects will span several issues. - Projects In Metal (PIM). Published 6 times per year by Village Press, $19. Only projects, no advertisements! Each project is complete in one issue. A "weak sister" to HSM, apparently started in part to handle overflow projects from HSM. Earlier back-issues have been combined into a new book series called "Metalworking". - Live Steam Magazine. Published 6 times per year by Village Press, $31. Mostly trains, some techniques, some stationary engines, lots of history and club information. Usually each issue has one stationary engine and two locomotive construction projects in various stages. - Model Engineer's Workshop Published bimonthly by Argus Described as the British version of HSM, and similar to the tool-oriented writing in Model Engineer. U.S. subscription rate is $38. More "packed" than HSM, and features the uniquely English way of doing machining (e.g., spending hours to make a cutter to make the cutter for gear cutting, when many of us in the US would just order the gear cutter and be done with it). - Modeltec. "Machinist Projects of Beauty and Usefulness" Published by George R. Broad, 12 per year. P.O. Box 1226 St. Cloud, MN 56302 Phone: (612) 654-0815 $31 per year ($38 in U.S. funds if outside U.S) Similar to Live Steam but not restricted to trains. Lots of projects for railroad cars. - Strictly IC (IC stands for Internal Combustion) Published 6 times per year $24.25 (+$2.00 US foreign, WA residents add $2.00 sales tax) Robert A. Washburn, editor 24920 43rd Avenue S. Kent, WA 98032 Concentrates on construction of miniature internal combustion engines, and has a few classified ads, usually for engine castings. - Gas Engine Magazine P.O. Box 328 Lancaster, PA 17603 (717) 392-0733, (717) 392-1341 (FAX) - Model Engineer Published biweekly, about $80/year Argus Specialist Publications Ltd. The king of model machining magazines it has been around for about 100 years. Varied construction articles, lots on trains. Some projects can take years to complete! Extensive back-issues are available from Tee (q.v.), and we presume from Argus since they publish it in the first place! An index to back issues is available from: G.V. Wilkinson 129 Springside Road Hillcrest 3610 South Africa The index used to cost 30 pounds sterling, and is reportedly much better than Guy Lautard's. - Engineering in Miniature Published monthly, about $30/year. Tee Publishing Similar to Model Engineer, more steam traction engines. Has an extensive collection of back issues of this and other model magazines. - Clockmaker Published 6 times per year, around $30/year Tee Publishing Discusses how to build mechanical clocks, with many projects spanning several issues. Big names like John Wilding write in this magazine. Classified ads for clockmaking supplies. - Workshop Masters Published by Tee, ceased regular publication in 1991. - Horn & Whistle Richard Weisenberher 2655 North Friendship, Lot #8 Paducah, Kentucky 42001 $18 per year. Low budget, in that they publish anything people send in. Some technology, some nostalgia, lots of stuff on meets where they get together and have "steam blasts." - Traction Engine Magazine - The Anvil's Ring This is the publication of ABANA (see below, associations) published 6 times a year; cost is $24 per year, or you get it as part of the $35 dues for joining ABANA. - Anvil Published monthly, about $30 per year See Centaur Forge, elsewhere. - American Craft (bi-monthly) (jewelry) published by the American Craft Council 40 West 53rd St. New York, NY 10019 (212)956-3535 Current work in metal, clay, glass, wood, textiles, mixed media; featured artists, calendar of events. - Metalsmith (quarterly) (jewelry) published by Society of North American Goldsmiths (SNAG) 5009 Londonderry Drive Tampa, FL 33647 (813)977-5326, (813)977-8462 fax Jewelry, techniques, featured artists, current exhibits - Ornament (quarterly) P.O. Box 2349 San Marcos, CA 92079 Jewelry (metal and beads) and textile/fiber art 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? This depends on several factors, mostly where you live. Good places to check out include community colleges (universities sometimes will have classes in metalworking, but perhaps only for already-enrolled students or faculty/staff). Sometimes a high school will offer night or weekend classes to the public, funding permitting. Also look for vocational/technical schools, and possibly even art schools since some metal sculpturing requires a firm background in welding. In a few cases there may be specialized schools in your area, so check your yellow pages or ask around. Some examples: John C. Campbell Folk School in Brasstown NC (800) 562-2440, Craft Center in Ripley WV. Some schools also offer room and board and/or campground hookups. 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? The Yellow Pages are often a good place to start. Also, the advertisements in magazines like Home Shop Machinist. Another way is to go find your nearest junk yard and/or metal recycling business and scrounge around. Make friends with a machinist at the nearest mining operation and ask for their throwaway "scraps". Order from a supply company (see ads in the magazines, and/or the "names and addresses" section elsewhere in this FAQ). Sometimes you can discover a creative re-use. For example, buy a few old aluminum automotive pistons, perhaps from your junk yard or a garage that rebuilds engines. Cut off the top and clean it up on your lathe. Now you have a nice round blank to start some project with. Similar discoveries should be posted to the newsgroup! Some of the magazines have ads for small "garage" shops that produce specialized castings. 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? Many of the places that sell equipment also sell tools but there are also outlets that only sell accessories such as lathe bits, drills, taps, and so on. Scan the "names and addresses" section elsewhere in this FAQ. 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? ABANA - Artist Blacksmiths Association of North America PO Box 1181 Nashville, Indiana 47448 (812) 988-6919 Dues are $35 per year, which also includes their publication "The Anvil's Ring" (see earlier, magazines) 11. How do I harden/temper metal? This is a *huge* subject, and depends on the metal, and intended use. Most of the time, this question is asked regarding steel, so we'll give a brief description of that, based on an article in Home Shop Machinist (Sept/Oct 1991, "Heat Treating Basics" by Steve Acker). [Also thanks to Steve Gaudio (?) for his post of 18-Sep-1992, and clarification by Tim Eisele] Iron will, at common temperatures, organize itself into an atomic structure that is called "body centered cubic." This consists of overlapping cubes with an atom at each corner, and one more in the center of the cube. But above roughly 1400 degrees F there is a change in structure to "face centered cubic" and the central atoms migrate to the faces of the cubes. This latter form is not magnetic. Steel is basically iron with some carbon mixed in though modern alloys have various other metals and substances as well. When steel is heated to the critical temperature (about 1400 degrees F), the iron will change to face centered, and the carbon atoms will migrate into the central position formerly occupied by an iron atom. This form of red-hot steel is called austentite. Since it is not magnetic, a magnet may be used to determine when the critical temperature has been reached (though the magnetism may be lost before the transition, so this is only approximate). Complete migration of the carbon atoms may take a minute or two. If you let this cool slowly, the iron atoms migrate back into the cube and force the carbon back out, resulting in soft steel called pearlite. If the sample was formerly hard, this softening process is called annealing. If you cool (quench) the sample suddenly by immersing it in oil or water, the carbon atoms are trapped, and the result is a very hard, brittle steel. Too brittle for most uses. The structure is now a body centered tetragonal form called martensite. So, the next step is to heat it back up, to between 200 and 800 degrees F or so, depending on the desired end hardness. This allows some of the hardness to relieved and is called tempering. The amount of tempering that is desirable depends on the final use. Cutting tools are very hard, knife blades less so because they must flex under use rather than break. Tempering is a trade-off between hardness and flexibility. Accurately measuring the tempering temperature is important. A nice, expensive thermostatically-controlled oven is great. Or, some special compounds can be applied that melt or change color at the right temp, such as Tempilstik and Tempilaq. If the steel is clean to start with, then you may notice that it goes through certain color changes as it heats up, with understandably vague descriptions such as "light straw" indicating about 440 degrees F, and purple=520. These colors are not incandescence colors, but are viewed in normal room light. The colors are due to types of surface oxidation that are temperature dependent. When quenching, it is often very important to avoid stirring a part because this will cool one side much more quickly than the other, and might cause warping. For knife blades, as an example, move it strictly up and down during the quench. Case hardening is a bit trickier, and involves heating the object in some sort of agent that promotes hardening at the surface. Liquid cyanide works well but should be out of the question for the home machinist. Luckily there are substitutes available from suppliers, one being called Kasenit, for example. Note that hardness is often measured using a "Rockwell C" scale, with 63 being very hard and 35 being fairly soft. A type of steel called "drill rod" is especially useful for home/hobby use. As its name implies, it is the type of steel used for drills, and is available is round or square form (square drills?). Drill rod is also very useful around the shop because it is usually made to very accurate dimensions. Some types of drill rod are formulated for hardening via heating then quenching in oil, while others are quenched in water. The difference is that water will cool more quickly because it's a good conductor (though it may also form a steam "jacket" that moderates this effect), while oil will cool more slowly. Since rapid cooling may warp a part, this could make a difference in the final product. There is also an "air hardening" steel, though it seems to be quite a bit more expensive than other steels. It has been reported, by way of example, that you can make springs out of hacksaw blades by annealing, bending, hardening, then tempering by heating to a "metallic blue" and quenching in oil. I suspect lots of experimenting may be in order before you get things just right. Remember the steel must be clean (no paint etc.) to see the colors. Quenching in oil may be a fire hazard. Take proper precautions, such as removing flammable materials from the area, wear proper clothing, and have an extinguisher handy. Even quenching in water presents the risk of scalding from steam or splattered water. As one newsgroup reader pointed out, not only are there a gerbillion alloys, but zillions of treatments to choose from, and this is just for steels. Other metals, like brass, can be hardened by "working" the metal, by bending, hammering, peening, etc. Brass is usually annealed with a quench, which is the opposite of steel. It's best to carefully research your particular project first, especially if it's something that is valuable. A recent book, "Simplified Tool Steel Heat Treatment and Selection Guide" by Bill Bryson, may be of some help. Anyone read it yet? $31.95 from Bill Bryson, Dept. HSM, RR 1, Box 4243, Union, NH 03887. Power Model Supply recently (December 1992) listed two small heat treating ovens in an HSM ad. 2000 degrees F, 4x4x4 inch $330, 6x6x6 $435. Write them for more info or see the ad. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Mon Feb 7 12:56:08 EST 1994 Article: 3631 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 2 of 4 Message-ID: <1994Feb1.131323.1317@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Feb 94 13:13:23 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 2 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 28 Feb 94 13:13:23 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 558 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 2 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? 26. How do I repair/replace this old leather belt? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12. How do I wire up this strange motor? (with thanks to Bill Brown) The following describes how to deal with an AC/DC "universal" motor that has 4 unmarked wires coming out. Be sure you don't have some other motor, such as a 3-phase unit. Other motors are covered in an FAQ for the newsgroup rec.woodworking. The FAQ postings (six of them) for rec.woodworking are normally posted around the first of each month, and possibly also posted to the newsgroup news.answers. I can't say how long *your* news system will choose to keep these around! Look for "Frequently Asked Questions about Electric Motors." Also, the "Electrical Wiring FAQ" may be of interest. The universal motor is called that because it can run on AC or DC. Older units might have been designed this way because very early power distribution had not settled on AC or DC, or with 50 or 60 cycles. Thus, such a motor could be used universally, in all locations provided the voltage was within reason. This still may be a concern with some on-site jobs feeding power tools from DC sources such as portable welding rigs. Another nice thing about these motors is that they are easily reversible. They are also easily speed-controlled, such as in hand drills, whereas induction motors prefer to run at or near synchronous speed. The first task is to determine which two wires go to the armature, and which go to the field winding. If you can't tell by examining where the wires go (or the nameplate), get an ohmmeter and connect it to the wires until you find two that show some continuity. Rotate the shaft slowly by hand and note if the resistance changes as you turn it. If it does, you probably have the armature, and the fluctuations are due to the brushes making and breaking contact with the commutator. The other winding (field coil) should show a steady resistance. Presuming you want the ability to reverse the motor, find a switch that can handle the rated current, in the double-pole-double-throw configuration with a center-off position. The suggested hook-up is (as usual, a bad ASCII graphic): +-------------------+ 1 | | 2 ----------FIELD-------o<--O o A 0 white \ / R \ / M V X A O / \ T L black / \ U T ----------------------o<--O o E S | | +-------------------+ NOTE: no connection at "X"; Include a green-wire frame ground if at all possible Avoid reversing the motor while it is moving in the "other" direction as this could severely stress the switch and motor (particularly the brushes). Move the switch to the center (off) position, and continue on to the other direction after the motor has stopped. Please, always be careful when dealing with electricity. If you don't feel comfortable and safe doing such a hook-up, find someone who can do it for you, or at least who can check what you're doing. 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? The following suggestions were offered by Stu Friedberg -- Get the catalogs and know what you want. There are often many sizes, models, and sources of an "X", so you need to know which particular X when you write and especially when you call to place an order. Even the smallest industrial supply houses deal in tens of thousands of items, which means even very knowledgeable order-takers can't always give you the information you need over the phone. Reserve queries about details for stuff that you couldn't figure out for yourself. Many of the order takers are very helpful and knowledgeable. At *SOME* sources the order takers can actually go look in the stock bins, take a micrometer to measure a shaft diameter, etc. I have had people at three different companies do something like this for me. However, some companies have computerized centralized order taking at a location completely separate from their stocking locations, so don't *assume* people can tell you anything that's not written in the catalog. I've had one company tell me to just order a set of change gears and return them if I couldn't use them. This wasn't crazy, the order taker simply had no relevant information available. Get the catalogs and shop around. Very often there are *big* differences in price between identical items, and even more often one source will have a unique or slightly different item at an excellent price compared to the "standard" item. There are lots of reasons for this. I have seen 2 to 1 price ratios on things like shim stock (from the same manufacturer) and "can't twist" clamps (from different manufactures but of equal quality). Occasionally, you will find 10 to 1 price ratios on things like boxes of hose clamps. Great deals if you look around. If you can, examine a tool at a local store (where the prices may be higher) to see what the quality is like, before placing the order by mail or telephone. You can also learn a great deal by perusing the catalogs, both about tools in general, and about specific details of specific tools. There's seldom enough room in a catalog to print all the manufacturer's data, but different sources will select different stuff to print. I have many times used one company's catalog to select the precise thing I wanted, then bought it from another company because the price was better. Most suppliers ship quickly if they have a credit card authorization. If they don't ship within two working days on a routine basis, shop somewhere else in the future. One full working day is quite common. I have had only one bad incident in the 4 or 5 years I've been buying industrial stuff by telephone, and came through with no losses. A supply company (which entered bankruptcy proceedings just a little while ago, by the way) charged my credit card for the full amount of my order, didn't ship for a month, and was completely clueless as to when they would ship my order. That is intolerable, and protection against abuse like that is one good reason to use a credit card rather than sending a check. You don't need to sue to get your money back if the merchant doesn't come through. (If it's not obvious, I got my money back and started to throw out that company's catalogs as they arrived.) Some industrial suppliers don't do back orders because it slows things down. The stock pickers send what's in stock and mark out of stock items on the invoice. This may be a little different from retail mail order sources you've dealt with in the past. Contact them about what's in stock and when it's expected to be available. Be prepared to return an item. Having to return an item because it was misshipped, defective, or of unsatisfactory quality is *NOT* an indictment of the supplier. If you do enough shopping for industrial supplies, you will find that you have to do a partial return maybe 1 time in 5. Don't get mad; don't get upset. It's routine. Industrial supply and consumer retail have different expectations about quality control. When you return an item, follow instructions. Many, but not all, suppliers require you to contact them for a "return authorization" number, which you must write on the outside of the package. You should include a copy of the invoice in the package. This is *NOT* an opportunity for the supplier to screw you over. This is a routine matter, and most of them just ask you to note on the invoice what was wrong and if you want credit, a refund, an exchange for something else, or whatever. 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? This is actually a tricky subject, and beyond the scope of this FAQ. However, an excellent book on sharpening knives and similar tools is: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranitch. 1985 by Warner Books, ISBN 0-446-38002-4, $12.50 This book can sometimes be found in the larger knife stores, such as frequently found in USA malls (e.g. Cutlery World). It is a bit biased in that John also sells sharpening equipment, but the techniques are fundamental and can be used with competitor's equipment such as Lansky's. Another source for the book is Knife World Books, (800) 828-7751 Ext 71. Sharpening drill bits has never seemed easy. If you have lots of money, Darex makes drill and mill sharpeners, and Glendo's Accu- Finish line addresses simpler cutting bits (and they even re-sell some Darex tools in conjunction with their grinders). Black and Decker reportedly make a decent drill sharpener (1/8" to 1/2") for around $250. Some of the magazines will print articles from time to time on sharpening, and/or building sharpening equipment. 15. The following text on safety was donated by Gary Preckshot: The forces involved in metalworking machinery are far higher than most people expect. You can either be struck by shrapnel or pulled into a machine by being caught by a moving part. There are several rules that reduce these hazards: a) Don't wear loose clothes, ties, unsecured braids, or jewelry. b) Turn off machines and *WAIT* for rundown before approaching the working area. You'll spend a lot more time in an ER than you'll ever save by jumping in right away. c) Don't snap chips using a shop towel. Use a brush or air. d) Don't mess with long chips curling off a turning. If you get build up, stop the machine and remove the chips wearing leather gloves and using pliers. e) Keep power transmission belts of any kind isolated and guarded. Flat leather belts are especially hazardous because they tend to be unguarded on crowned cone pulleys. If in doubt, add more clamps. If in doubt, chuck more deeply or use a collet. A turning that comes adrift can damage both the lathe and you. A workpiece that shifts can damage both the mill and you. Stuff gets hot when cut. Let it cool before picking it up. Metal cutting generally leaves a sharp burr. Break the edges with a file or a de-burring tool before you release the work for general handling. Don't let kids, wives, husbands, girlfriends, or boyfriends close to metalworking operations without training or close supervision. Chips are extremely sharp. Long, curled chips from lathe turnings are especially dangerous because kids, wives, husbands, girlfriends, or boyfriends see only how pretty they are. You can get a very deep cut by handling such chips with your hands. Have a system for removing and storing chips. Use it regularly. Use eye protection - ALWAYS. Beware of fascination. Metal cutting tools flash and glint as they spin. An unwary person may reach toward the pretty, shiny tool. This is no joke. It happens. Then you take a trip to the local ER. Don't watch welding without adequate dark glass filters. You can get a tan in 2 minutes and a burn in five on any exposed skin close to arc welding. It doesn't hurt for about 3 hours, but then it hurts for days. Cover up. Don't play with air. Not only can it inject chips (by blowing them) into your body, but it can inject oily air as well. Sometimes right through the skin. Air is no joke. In general, no horseplay in the shop. Banish anybody who can't understand this simple rule. This is one place where absolute dictatorship is better than democracy. Take your time. You'll save on rework time, machine repair, and medical costs. 16. How do I drill round holes? In May 1993 the following question was posted. This brought a lot of useful suggestions for a problem often seen ... Subject: I can't drill round holes I am trying to drill 1/4" holes in 3/32" mild steel with a H/S twist bit in a 12" Delta bench press. The holes are not round. They tend towards the triangular. The piece I am drilling has a 1 1/4" square cross section. The distortion is worst in the exit hole through the bottom of the member. What is going on? Is there anything I can do to correct the problem? Morgan Hall gave the following shot as to how a simple twist drill manages to create a non-circular hole: Hint -- look at the rotor and housing of a Mazda rotary engine You can model the working end of a drill bit as a single straight line of finite length. If you fix one end and try to rotate it, the opposite end of the line sweeps out an arc. (the drill flexes) After about 1/3 revolution, the stuck end breaks free and sweeps out another arc while the formerly free end sticks. With alternate ends sticking, then breaking free, the arcs will form a kind of polygon with arcs of radius equal to the drill's diameter. After the first cuts, the "corners" of the polygon tend to stop the sweeping cut for each drill flute. The most common I've seen is the triangular hole, but other polygons are definitely possible. I suspect that this occurrence is related to some sort of resonance in the drilling setup. The suggestions that followed may be useful to anyone trying to drill holes. Some of them may qualify as 'obvious' but they're still worth bearing in mind... * Ensure the drill is sharp. * Make sure the work is firmly clamped * Don't try and run the bit too fast for the drill size and work material. * Don't force the feed rate; as with *any* cutting process, let the cutter do the cutting. * Keep as much of the drill in the chuck as possible. The more flexibility there is in the drill, the more likely you are to have problems. * When drilling thin material, it is often useful to provide some form of backing clamped to the work. This has the added advantage of keeping the burrs to a minimum. * The drill tip may need to be ground to a different angle, depending on the material being worked. * An undersize pilot hole is often a good idea. If you are drilling using a mark made with a centre punch and the tip of the drill is larger than the mark, you are unlikely to get accurate placement. * Don't forget to use a cutting lubricant * The quality of the hole is only going to be as good as the machine you are using will allow. If the drill spindle is sloppy, there may be nothing you can do about it. As a final comment, if you really want a round, accurately sized hole, you are unlikely to get it with a twist drill. Drill undersize and use a reamer if it's important. 17. What's TIG and MIG? TIG - Tungsten Inert Gas A small torch with a tungsten electrode is used to make the arc inside an envelope of an inert gas, usually argon or some argon mixture. A filler rod is manually introduced to complete the weld. The resulting weld is very pretty and usually requires no further finish. It is used mostly for welding sheets of mild steel, stainless steel or aluminum. The better machines have a foot control and a high frequency arc starter. Any sizable stick welder can be retro-fitted to do TIG welding, but without the foot control. MIG - Metal Inert Gas MIG and wire feed are the same thing. In this process, a consumable wire electrode is fed from a spool to the torch where the weld occurs inside an envelop of pure carbon dioxide, pure argon or a mixture of both. The weld continues as long as the operator has the trigger depressed and there is something to weld. This process is very fast, easy to learn and results in fairly good looking (better with argon) and strong welds. Most production welding of mild steel is now done with MIG welding. There is no slag to chip, but there is a slight thin coating of a glassy material that probably should be wire brushed off before painting. MIG welding can be used for thin or thick materials and is commonly used on mild steel, stainless and aluminum. Some common features of MIG machines are spot welding and stitch welding of sheet metal. There is a special wire called flux core that can be used in a MIG welder without the shielding gas. This process leaves a slag coating that must be chipped off. For most people on this group there isn't much use for flux core, as it was developed to reduce cost for large- scale welding where the cost of Argon starts piling up. There are fairly cheap 120 volt MIG welders that will only weld thin sheet metal. A more practical 240 volt machine that will weld up to about .25 inch is about $1500-$2000 new, $800-$1200 used. The machine I have will do MIG welding and stick welding, but most are MIG only. A machine that will weld .25 inch in a single pass will still weld thicker materials with multiple passes. 18. MIG welding technique. (The following was submitted by James Swonger on May 4, 1993) The quality of a MIG weld is controlled by gas flow, the qualities of that gas, the "heat" and feed rate settings. While getting a quality weld is less dependent on "touch" than gas or arc welding, it does depend on the right combination of the settable machine parameters. There are three modes of material transfer in a wire feed machine. One is "blob mode", where the wire sticks, then melts locally, then breaks. This occurs at the lower end of the heat/wire feed range. I say heat/feed rate as a ratio, because this pretty much determines which deposition mode you will see. Blob mode welds are the lowest penetration and lowest transferre heat, because there's almost no real arc action, just mostly resistive heating of the wire and contact point. The second mode as you move up the range is a soft arc with the metal being pushed through it. You'll recognize this mode when it happens; there's no more "wire push", the sound changes from a random snapping to a more uniform sizzle and everything just gets smooth. This is what I consider the ideal mode. The arc is stable but most of its energy is transferred into melting the fed wire and a localized area of the workpiece. In this mode I see about 1/4" of heat affected zone around the weld (automotive sheet metal thickness), and by proper setting I can get perfect penetration which I define to be some backside protrusion but no sag or burn-through. The handpiece ("gun") in this mode may have a buzzing feel to it but none of the bucking you get in blob mode. The third mode is when heat is much higher than the wire feed rate needs. This mode is akin to traditional arc welding, except with a fed wire. The arc energy now is biased more into the workpiece, with attendant heating and penetration. The wire still adds filler but there is more tendency to undercut, eat back and blow through especially on thin pieces. In this high heat/feed mode the buzzing/sizzling sound is replaced by a more purely electrical arc sound (whispering/crackling). This mode is desirable when welding pieces much thicker than the wire, especially when you haven't taken the bother of grinding proper chamfers and need to get penetration. Gas flow provides an important cooling effect. This is one reason why flux cored wire is harder to use on sheet metal; there's no place for the weld heat to go except the workpiece. Argon, A75 and CO2 have different welding characteristics. Argon will make the weld "sit up" higher, CO2 gives the most penetration and A75 is in the middle somewhere. Only Argon is suitable for aluminum; A75 is sort of marginal for stainless (leaves some carbon) but pretty ideal for general mild steel use. An adjustable regulator provides more latitude in balancing arc heat/feed and cooling. A high flow of gas can reduce warpage while allowing faster material transfer. I have a cheap preset flow regulator which is a compromise setting, compromise price type deal. To minimize panel warpage you must apply some technique as well. The MIG machine does not eliminate the need for skill; it just lets you apply your attention to more important things and lets you slide on some of the basics. Warping results from too much differential heating and expansion in the workpiece. By understanding the material and equipment you can keep this from being a problem. Duty cycle is one simple way of further reducing overall heat input. By welding in short, spaced beads you can join panels without overheating any large areas. First the piece should be "tacked" every few inches, with bead lengths of 1/2" or so. Make several passes after that, filling in the gaps bit by bit and not working any one region for long. The workpiece's thermal spreading will cool the small HAZ (*) pretty quickly if the total heat deposited remains small. A spot cools much more rapidly than a line. The edge of a thin metal piece presents a special case, a "boundary condition" which behaves differently than the bulk. With half the heat dissipation ability of the bulk, the edge will tend to burn back, distort and so on. This can be addressed by reducing heat (although this may force you into running blob mode), by different choice of metal overlap configuration and by carefully running the arc. A true butt joint in thin material is difficult to make. A -perfect- butting is hard to do on formed sheet metal, and any gaps will tend to enlarge in the welding process. For this reason a lapped weld is often preferred. A panel can be flanged to let the two pieces overlap but keep the final surface flush. The flange provides a backup as well in case of erosion of the edge on the top piece. =========\\W++++++++++++ \\==== A second sort of joint is a butted-V which protects the edges as the weld hits the sidewalls without necessarily reaching the bottom of the groove. --------\WW+++++++++ \+ Places like Eastwood sell specialty tools for making both types of flanges on sheet metal. Of course, you need to be careful not to cause deformation from the flanging process itself. I have made my own flanging tool for the first form out of an extra pair of Channel-Loks with extra jaw material brazed in and ground to shape. The Eastwood tool is Vise-Grip based and looks like it's a bit better as far as force required to make the flange due to the compound action. I think a pair of beat up sheet metal shears might be a better basis for making a new one. (*) HAZ = Heat Affected Zone; the area where you see thermally-induced material changes in the workpiece. This is basically the extent of any visible surface discoloration when using the MIG, although if you run the gas after stopping the arc you may not even be able to see anything because oxygen is excluded. If you remove the gas and arc together you will get the normal thin oxidation layer like you see when grinding or heating to temper. The outside of the blue oxide region is the periphery of the HAZ, although the material effects there are probably negligible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following was submitted by mrehmus@cup.portal.com Use of MIG for body work. A bad idea fostered on us amateurs by our ignorance. If you look at the available wire for MIG, you don't find anything much softer than S60 or higher wire. In general, the higher the yield strength of metal, the harder it is to work. (Try forming tool-steel as a test). The weld bead left by a MIG is very hard relative to the body sheet metal and is almost impossible to work. It also cracks very easily even if one trys to anneal the metal in the weld. In restoring a 1967 Mercury Cougar I finally had to teach myself hammer welding using a welding torch. The results were much better!! 1. The seam is the same thickness as the parent sheet metal. 2. The seam is as soft or softer than the parent sheet metal. 3. The seam and the surrounding sheet metal are easily worked to remove any defects caused by the welding process. Should anyone want to equal the hammer welding process but with an electric source of heat, TIG is the only way to go. The filler metal selection is much, much wider and the TIG can be run way down to 10 amps or so which would probably let you weld aluminum foil if you wished. Oh yea, in the professional welder's world, the common opinion is that a TIG weld is superior to MIG. So why do the professional body shops like the MIG? It is necessary for the welding of high-strength steel that is commonly used in the structural parts of the modern automobile. Not, I repeat, NOT for the external sheet metal. The external sheet metal (the part we can see) is still mild steel because of the expense and difficulty of making sheet metal forming dies that would last and give good results with high-strength steel. Remember that body shops replace whole panels, they rarely "patch" a panel. The high-quality restoration shops use TIG or (usually) a torch and hammer welding. GOOD video tapes to know about: "Learning MIG Welding" by SIP "Hammerwelding Techniques" by Car Guy Videotapes "Patch Panel Installation" by Car Guy Videotapes I have watched these tapes many times, always learning more at every session. The tape on MIG welding uses a good visual filter technique to show every type of weld puddle. After viewing the tape, my MIG welding has been much better. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk Mon Feb 7 12:56:10 EST 1994 Article: 3632 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!jimkirk From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu (Jim Kirkpatrick) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: FAQ part 3 of 4 Message-ID: <1994Feb1.131334.1318@roper.uwyo.edu> Date: 1 Feb 94 13:13:34 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 3 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 28 Feb 94 13:13:35 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 821 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 3 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? 26. How do I repair/replace this old leather belt? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19. We frequently see "What should I buy" questions; one example is "What MIG welder should I buy?" There is no definite answer, and the prospective buyer should read the other entries in this FAQ regarding welding. What follows is an example of such a question and the answers received (June, 1993). We claim no responsibility for correctness or liability for your money! Keith King asked: I'm looking at the purchase of a MIG welder for auto body repair and other light welding jobs around the homestead and I don't have much background on this type of equipment. The models I'm looking at are the Lincoln SP-100 and the Miller 130. Both models are 110v portables. The Miller has a higher rating but I'm not sure if that's critical for my applications. The Lincoln has the advantage of having infinitely variable power output vs. stepped output for the Miller and the salesman said the gun on the Lincoln was a "Tweako?" whatever that means. Both units are similarly priced/warranted etc. Century has a bunch of lower priced, shorter warranty, cheaper looking, MIG welders. Does anyone have any experience/opinions on these welders or other MIGs to help me make a more informed purchase. Jim Narem answered/asked: I'm also interested in MIG welders for sheet metal and roll bar work. I've used the Italian made SIP 110V MIG unit. It works; it was worth $100 (purchased at some close-out sale) but not the $350 that places want retail. It's tough to get parts; even the tips have to be ordered. The wire feed mechanism sucks. I've seen some new Lincoln's on the market; both are wire feed welders with optional MIG kits as opposed to the SP-100 and SP-130 which are purpose build MIG units. Lincoln Weld-Pak 100, 88 amp, 18V @ 20% duty, 110V, $354 w/MIG kit. Lincoln Weld-Pak 125, 130 amp, 20v @ 30% duty, 220V, $556 w/MIG kit. (Prices are Connecticut Home Depot, tax bandit not included) The MIG kits are about $80 each, they have a gas flow regulator, solenoid and (I think) a different gun. Does anyone have any experience with these welders? They seem cost effective compared to the SP-100 and SP-130 but I'm nervous since Lincoln seems to be releasing some home/consumer grade equipment (like their new AC arc welder with the cheezy variable amperage control). There are also several Century MIG units commonly available at large home improvement shops (yup, WELD on that new addition). I've used their AC/DC arc welder and was impressed with its cost/performance. Has anyone used any of the Century MIGs? Ken Clarke answered: I took an evening welding class at a technical high school (10 weeks) and got to try various types of welding (stick, MIG, TIG, and oxy/acetylene. Also got some good tips on safety, and on how to by a MIG welder. The instructor spoke of the "big three" in the welding business (Miller, Lincoln, and Hobart). He was a confirmed "Miller" man, but we used Lincoln (and Airco) welders in the tech. school. I now think that it makes sense to buy whatever you decide to buy at your favorite welding supply store. The guys there have lots of good advice and if you go with one of the big three, you will not have any problem getting parts and consumables for your welder. I looked around for a while and compared the 110v portable welders by Lincoln and Miller and Hobart. My favorite welding supply house was having a "package deal" that included the Hobart Handler 120. Included in the package was the welder, a 2 lb. spool of .024 wire, a Jackson welders mask with the 4x5 face plate (get a number 10 shade), a *good* pair of welders gloves, a 55 cu. ft. tank of shielding gas (C25 which is 25 percent CO2 and 75 percent Argon), a dual-gauge regulator and connecting hose. This was about 1.5 years ago and I believe I paid $625 for the package. The Hobart has been great. It works fine on auto body panels and I have also done work on exhaust systems, mailbox posts, minibike mufflers, lawnmower parts, and am finishing up a trailer axle for a friend this weekend. So, I guess I'm advocating the Hobart, but if you can get a good deal on the Miller or the Lincoln, those would probably be fine, too. A few of the features on the Hobart that I liked were: 1. A "purge" feature, that allows you to set the flow rate on the shielding gas without spooling out wire. 2. The wire feed mechanism that lets you set the tension on the drive wheel but also lets you change wire spools without moving the setting. 3. The ergonomics of the unit, the way the wire spool goes in, the way the lid hinges down (not up like the others). 4. Five year warranty on power diodes and SCRs, three years on major components and one year on parts and labor. I would stay away from the Century welder. I don't think it has the quality of the "big three". I think you would have trouble getting parts, probably would have to order them. All parts for the big three can be had at local welding supply houses, in-stock. Also, the "Tweeko" comment is referring to the gun end of the welder. I hear that it's supposed to be a very common industry-standard type of part. Parts for the Tweeko handle/gun should be available at any welding supply house. Jim Swonger answered: "Tweako" is actually Tweco, a manufacturer of MIG and TIG handpieces and such. What this means is that parts are pretty readily available; they're everywhere. For sheet metal welding you'll run nowhere near the maximum heat setting on any machine. On my 160 I'm down on "2" for heat. The higher current machines of some of the cheaper brands need to be looked at carefully; some of them have -very- low duty cycles, leading me to believe that the critical parts are not much, if any, better than the cheaper models. The "purge" feature is good to have; however if you do not find a machine with it you can add it pretty simply. An auxiliary control switch for the solenoid valve is all it takes, in parallel with the relay that runs off the gun trigger. For serious sheet metal work spot and stitch modes are very nice amenities, allowing you to tack up a large piece with spaced short beads, minimizing distortion and allowing a fast, even hand motion. You can get by without it, but if it comes free or cheap... Quite a while later (26-Sep-1993), mrehmus@cup.portal.com wrote -- I've owned a Century 90 amp MIG welder for 4 or 5 years now. Never a problem with the unit and I've put three large reels of 0.024" wire through it. The one time I thought I had a problem the people at Century were very helpful. Century may not be one of the "big three" but they have been around for a very long time (mainly they make many of the professional battery chargers sold in this country, so I'm told). ------------ Other comments that have come up from various sources, especially Ken Clarke: Arc welders are often rated for a particular duty cycle, such as 30%. This means you can weld for about 3 minutes at full power, then you have to let the welder cool off for 7 minutes. The cheap units are typically low duty cycle, where the professional units have a high duty cycle. Also, units are often rated at a certain lower amperage where they can safely be operated at a higher percentage; for example, a 200 amp unit might be rated at 50 amps @ 100%, 100 amps at @ 60%, and 200 amps at 30%. Look for some sort of automatic cutoff to protect your investment in case you get carried away. DC systems are nicer than AC systems, especially if you can reverse polarity. AC systems splatter a bit more. DC doesn't as much, and makes a nicer weld as a result. Reversing polarity apparently can direct heat away from, or to, the workpiece; directing it away from a sheet metal weld can reduce warpage. Inverter models run off DC, or rectified line current. Their portability is the main selling point, for field welding where 220V isn't available. For the home or small shop, they are probably overkill. Large spools of wire, or other welding supplies, may corrode before they get used up in a hobby environment. Dry storage is important to preserve them. 20. Books on welding. Courtesy of kenm@daffy.cac.washington.edu Here's a source of good and inexpensive welding books. A catalog is available from: Lincoln Arc Welding Foundation PO Box 17035 Cleveland, OH 44117 They list a couple of dozen titles. Here are nutshell reviews of the ones I've seen: Metals and How to Weld Them, 400 pg, $5.00 A great book on the metallurgy of welding. It's not a how-to-weld book, but instead answered the Why? type questions I've had for years. Principles of Industrial Welding, 384 pg, $6.50 Your run-of-the-mill textbook. Design of Weldments, 464 pg, $7.00 A text on the design of welded machinery etc. There is a different book on welded structures. Well worth it it you are designing your own projects. New Lessons in Arc Welding, 528 pg, $5.00 Hard to describe - kind of a lab manual for a welding tips. Certainly worth the $5. Arc Welded Projects Vol 2, 272 pg, $5.00 Arc Welded Projects Vol 3, 170 pg, $4.50 Full of short (couple of page) descriptions of all kinds of rather ambitious projects - a tractor snowblower, log splitter, chariot, sailboat, woodstove, .... These are good books at any price, and great books at these prices. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. There sometimes seems a fine line between soldering (several types, at that), brazing, and welding. Here we try to shed some light on soldering and brazing. The following was contributed by Tim Kirby around 3/3/93 when the newsgroup was discussing the "true meaning" of silver soldering and the distinction between hard and soft solder. : Can anyone remember the "official" difference between : Hard & Soft solders ? While browsing for something else entirely, I found my copy of 'Model Locomotive and Marine Boilers' [Argus Press, 1988, ISBN 0-85242-923-1] by Martin Evans (well known in the Model Engineering field, at least in the UK) from which I have gratuitously (and without prejudice) stolen the following extract for your contemplation. As an aside, this is a useful book for those interested in designing and building boilers. Chapter 3, page 55: Silver Soldering and Brazing Soldering and brazing are processes which involve the joining of metals by the addition of molten filler metal of substantially different composition, at temperatures well below their melting point. An important difference between silver-soldering and brazing or welding is that the brazing alloy or filler material must be drawn by capillary forces right through the mating joint surfaces, and not merely deposited at the edges. Soft Solders are generally accepted as including the alloys of low melting point up to about 400 deg. C. They are usually based on Tin or Lead with small additions of antimony and sometimes silver. Hard solders, or silver-solders, are those alloys suitable for soldering which have melting points from 400 deg. C. up to about 800 deg. C. (see BSI 1845/1964) [for those who don't understand that reference, BSI is the British Standards Institute, similar in function to (for example) ANSI. BSI 1845 probably details this stuff in excruciating detail ;-) ... Tim.] Brazing alloys are alloys suitable for brazing (sic) which have melting points from about 800 deg. C. up to about 1000 deg. C. It should however be understood that there is no definite line of demarcation between silver-solders and brazing alloys. The former always contain a proportion of silver, while the brazing alloys generally contain copper, zinc and sometimes tin. Brazing alloys containing copper and phosphorus are also available but these are not recommended for boiler work. 22. What are bolt grades? We frequently see questions regarding bolt grades, so here's a partial list. Please note that just because a bolt is grade 2 does not mean it will break easily. Grading only refers to the minimum strength, not the maximum. Thus, if a machine uses a soft bolt as a safety shear pin, and you happen to replace it with a grade 2 bolt that was actually manufactured to grade 8 specs (but was marked down because too many of the bolts in the lot failed, so the whole lot was marked down) you could create some serious problems. Replace safety-related items with proper stuff! Also beware of improperly-marked forgeries. If your application is critical, test some samples or get certified hardware (not that readers of rec.crafts.metalworking are likely to be building interstate bridges or spacecraft, but it's worth saying). John M. Peterson kindly typed this in on July 20, 1993: Taken from Machinery's Handbook 23 , page 1286. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM and SAE Grade Markings for Steel Bolts and Screws ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Grade Marking Spec. Material ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- SAE - Grade 1 Low or Medium Carbon Steel No ASTM - A 307 Low Carbon Steel Mark SAE - Grade 2 Low or Medium Carbon Steel ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 5 Medium Carbon Steel Quenched and Tempered ASTM - A 409 / \ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 5.2 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ASTM - A 325 Medium Carbon Steel Type 1 Quenched and Tempered A 325 Radial dashes optional / \ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ASTM - A 325 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Type 2 Quenched and Tempered A 325 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 325 Atmospheric Corrosion (Weathering) Type 3 Steel, Quenched and Tempered A 325 ----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 354 Alloy Steel, Grade BC Quenched and Tempered BC ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 7 Medium Carbon Alloy Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered, Roll Threaded After Heat / \ Treatment ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | SAE - Grade 8 Medium Carbon Alloy Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered ASTM - A 354 Alloy Steel, / \ Grade BD Quenched and Tempered | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \/ SAE - Grade 8.2 Low Carbon Martensite Steel \ / Quenched and Tempered \ / ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 490 Alloy Steel, Type 1 Quenched and Tempered A 490 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASTM - A 490 Atmospheric Corrosion (Weathering) Type 3 Steel, Quenched and Tempered A 490 ----- 23. What is XYZ made of? Metals 1. What is Brass made of? Brass is a combination of copper and zinc, in approximately the ratio of 2/3 to 1/3, respectively. Sometimes lead (about 3%) is added to improve machinability. 2. What is Bronze made of? Bronze is usually made of copper and tin. However bronze describes any bronze colored alloy even if it doesn't have any tin. Various bronze alloys include silicon, manganese or phosphorus. Mostly bronze is used for bearings. 3. Steels Steel is a refined iron where the impurities carbon, silicon, sulphur and phosphorus are removed and then the iron is combined with carbon and/or chromium and/or nickel. Various other metals may be added to create a nearly infinite variety of steel and steel alloys. A few common steels are discussed below. a. What is CRS? Cold Rolled Steel. b. What is HRS? Hot Rolled Steel. c. What is HSS? High Speed Steel. d. What is stainless steel? Stainless steel is low in carbon but has about 20% chromium. Stainless has a beautiful finish but it is very hard to machine. Both CRS and HRS are mild steels. Mild steels have a low carbon (<.3%) content and therefore can't be hardened. CRS is formed (into bars, rods or angles ...) "cold" and therefore has internal stresses inside. Because of these stresses, an intricate part, like a one piece crankshaft, or a heat treated part may distort. CRS has a smooth surface, which requires no additional finishing. The steel stock found in the hardware store or home improvement center is usually CRS. HRS is formed hot so it does not have any internal stresses but it has a rough black scale surface. HRS is a little cheaper, but CRS is easier to find. HRS is used for welding, so a welding shop with steel stock would be a good source for HRS. HSS is a carbon steel (0.3% Date: 1 Feb 94 13:13:48 MST Summary: Metalworking FAQ part 4 Keywords: FAQ Expires: 28 Feb 94 13:13:48 MST Distribution: rec.crafts.metalworking,world Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY Lines: 721 This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking. It currently is in four pieces to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by some news systems. This is part 4 of 4. A tiny bit of history: there exists a group trial.rec.metalworking, but few sites pick up the "trial" feed. Also, the trial method of group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become an official wide-spread group. Many thanks to those who have contributed (in no particular order): Matthew Jones, Bill Brown, Phil OKunewick, Tim Eisele, Steve Gaudio, Stu Friedberg. Also, I've been grabbing bits from postings and copying them into the FAQ, such as book reviews and more addresses, so thanks to many more! Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit, and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use. Sorry. The questions being answered in part 1: 1. The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter. 2. The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists. 3. What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking? 4. Who makes good lathes/mills/etc? 5. Where do I buy a machine? 6. What are good magazines to subscribe to? 7. Where might one take classes or get instruction? 8. Where can I get raw material for my projects? 9. Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.? 10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations? 11. How do I harden/temper metal? The questions being answered in part 2: 12 How do I wire up this strange motor? 13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers? 14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools? 15. Some safety reminders. 16. How do I drill round holes? 17. What's TIG and MIG? 18. MIG welding technique. The questions being answered in part 3: 19. Which MIG welder should I buy? 20. Books on welding. 21. Soldering/brazing topics. 22. What are bolt grades? 23. What is XYZ made of? 24. How do I build a furnace or forge? 25. What is Damascus steel? 26. How do I repair/replace this old leather belt? The question being answered in part 4: 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new question was added!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers (with special thanks to Stu Friedberg). Note also that a potential source of manufacturers/suppliers is the Thomas Register, found in most public libraries. -- Special entry: Not a company or anything, but for more info on crafts supplies, send e-mail to info@crafts-council.pe.ca and put "WANTED:" at the beginning of the subject line. This is a non-profit service of PEI Crafts Council in Charlottetown, Price Edward Island, Canada. They maintain a list of crafts suppliers and can answer questions like "give me a list of ceramics suppliers East of the Mississippi" or "who sells ConeArt kilns?" (per a post 9-Nov-1993) - Allcraft Tool & Supply 666 Pacific St. Brooklyn, NY 11217 (800)645-7124, (718)789-2800 Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Allied Devices Corporation 2365 Milburn Ave P.O. Box 502 Baldwin, New York 11510 (516) 223-9100, (516) 223-9172 (FAX) "Standard Precision Mechanical Components" such as small gears. Reputedly not cheap, but Small Parts Inc isn't either. - American Watchmakers-Clockmakers Institute (AWI) P.O. Box 11011 Cincinnati, OH 45211 (513) 661-3838, (513) 661-3131 (FAX) Membership is around $45 or so per year. They have an excellent magazine, Horological Times. Their orientation is more towards watch/clock repair. They offer many courses along those lines. The "Project Extended" courses are given in Cincinnati, but they have many other courses (around 5 days) given around the country. They have at least 100 videotapes on various aspects of lathe work and clock repair. - ARE, Inc. Box 8 Greensboro Bend, VT 05842 (800)736-4273, (802)533-7007, (802)533-7008 fax Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Argus Books P.O. Box 35 Wolsey House Wolsey Road, Hemel Hempstead Herts HP2 4SS England Telephone: Hemel Hempstead (0442)66551 Publishers of Model Engineer in England. Heavy on live-steam model trains, mostly machining topics, some interesting plans. - Blue Ridge Machinery and Tools, Inc. PO Box 536 2806 Putnam Avenue Hurricane, WV 25516 800-872-6500, 304-562-3538 in WV, 304-562-5311 (fax) Credit cards, COD's up to $200 M,W,F 9-5 EST, Tu,Th 9-9 EST Lathes, milling machines, presses, brakes, from puny to industrial. Accessories and parts for popular machines from Myford, South Bend, Atlas, Sherline, Emco-Maier, etc. Hand tools and books of interest to hobbyists and professionals. Woodworking power tools Steel, brass, aluminum, tool steel in small quantities. 110 page catalog - Borel and Frei 712 S. Olive St. Los Angeles, CA 90014 (800)654-9591, (213)689-7007, (213)533-7008 fax Tools for jewelry-making, perhaps more. - Bourget Bros. Lapidary and Jeweler's Supplies 1636 11th St. Santa Monica, CA 90404 (800)828-3024 - Brownells Route 2 Box 1 200 South Front Street Montezuma, Iowa, 50171 (515) 623-5401, (515) 623-3896 (FAX) Brownells is a fine firm that specializes in gunsmithing, though a lot of their merchandise is great for general-purpose metalworking. Catalog is $4.00, refundable with first order of $40 or more (but if you can convince them you are a dealer, then it is free). They have lower prices for gun dealers, "enciphered" in the catalog in a manner similar to the following -- Item: Foo Bar Grips an9xx20dd Price: $19.95 means list price is $19.95, dealer price is $9.20. However, in recent catalogs they have changed the coding on some items. While some people have apparently convinced them they are a dealer, the usual requirement seems to be an FFL (Federal Firearms License) before they sell for the dealer price. - Campbell Tools, Inc. 2100-H Selma Rd. Springfield, OH 45505 (513) 322-8562 A machine supplier attuned to the hobbyist metalworker. They carry Sherline, Emco, Jet, and other machines. Also books, hardware, raw materials, etc. Highly recommended by one net reader. - Centaur Forge Ltd. P.O. Box 340 117 N. Spring Street Burlington, WI 53105 (414) 763-9175, (414) 763-8350 (FAX) Publications concentrate on forging, blacksmithing, though all aspects of metalworking are covered. A good, well-organized collection. They also publish a magazine, Anvil (see earlier section). Centaur Forge is the source for blacksmithing supplies from tongs to furnaces. Also a source of horse shoeing supplies. - Cole's Power Models P.O. Box 788 Ventura, CA 93001 (805) 643-7065 Castings, books, supplies, accessories. For trains, stationary steam, gasoline engines. The catalog costs $4. - Condar Co. 10500 Industrial Drive Garrettsville, OH 44231 (216) 527-4343 They sell a pyrometer (high-temp thermometer) for gas forges and such, Unit 9-85 which comes with a 6-foot 2200-degree probe for $60. They also have a high temp probe (3000 degrees; Unit 14S4-1, $17). Probably lots of other related items, but this came up in discussion on low-cost pyrometers around 3/25/93. - Darex Corporation 220 Hersey Street Box 277 Ashland, OR 97520 (503) 488-2224, (503) 488-2229 (FAX) Precision drill and end-mill sharpening equipment. Some of their complete systems are very expensive and intended for large production shops (around $2000). They also sell fixtures for use with existing grinders (about $250) and sharpeners for taps, reamers, and countersinks. - Eastwood Company (800) 345-1178 Metal fabrication equipment, welding supplies, etc. Reportedly, the prices are rather high. - Enco Manufacturing Co. 13 stocking locations, main site in Chicago, IL (addresses not handy now) 800-860-3400 (24 hr orders, automatically routes to closest location) 800-860-3500 (fax, also auto routes) Credit cards, COD's up to $500, discount for pre-pay by check $25 minimum order Customer service & Chicago showroom M-F 7-midnight CST, Sa 8-4 CST, Su 9-4 CST Lathes, milling machines, etc, from small to large NC machines. Hand tools, cutting tools, storage cabinets, shop supplies Maker (not just distributer) of turret bed lathes. However, many net folks have reported that quality and service are between awful and terrible (this author included), and that Enco is to be avoided. This is not a unanimous opinion, but close. 230 page catalog - Gateway Clocks 7936 Camberly Drive Powell, TN 37849 Gateway Clocks is apparently a one-man business, in the person of W. R. Smith, author of several clockmaking books and one on clockmaking and model-making (see earlier section in the FAQ). Gateway also sells all of John Wilding's books, and John Wilding (in England) sells all of Smith's books, through a reciprocal agreement. - Gesswein 255 Hancock Ave. Bridgeport, CT 06605 (800)243-4466, (203)366-5400, (203)366-3953 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Glendo Corporation 900 Overlander Road P.O. Box 1153 Emporia, KS 66801 (800) 835-3519, (316) 343-1084, (316) 343-9640 (FAX) Their Accu-Finish line of "advanced sharpening equipment" includes grinders and fixtures for lathe cutting bits and similar tools. Also, most affordable for the home shop, the Grind-R-Table for use with existing grinders. They often run ads in the magazines, or you can call for information. - Harbor Freight Tools 3491 Mission Oaks Blvd. Camarillo, CA 93011-6010 800 423 2567 They mostly sell cheap tools. Usually cheap = inexpensive, sometimes cheap = junky. All (or most all) imported. They are best for items which have a lot of metal in them and for which fine/precision is not your main objective. They have really great buys on anvils, cold chisel sets, screwdriver sets, tinsnips, crowbars, ... and free shipping (other than a $2.95 handling fee) for orders over $50. - Industrial Pipe and Steel Co. 9936 E. Rush Street South El Monte, CA 91733 800-423-4981, 818-443-9467, 818-579-4602 (fax) Credit cards, COD's M-F 7:30-4:30 PST, Sa 7:30-1 PST Cutting tools, hand tools, air tools, lathes, milling machines, you name it. Shop supplies, tool and die maker supplies, you name it. Metal of all sorts, you name it. New and used press die sets. Surplus rounds and plates. Buy by the foot, buy by the pound. Most of their metal stock is not listed in the catalog(s). Call and ask what they've got. Definitely oriented toward professional users, not hobbyists. Full line distributors for most instrument makers, Starrett, Mitutoyo, etc. Quality ranges from ultra-classy, great deals, garbage-at-any-price import. Small catalog several times a year, 200 page catalog once or twice a year, and a 750 page full-line catalog once every five years. They came out with a full-line catalog in 92. Get one if you can. - J. I. Morris Company 394 Elm Street Southbridge, MA 01550 Phone: (508) 764-4394, (508) 764-7350 (FAX) Tiny screws, nuts, washers. Sizes 0000-16 to 2-56 and popular UNM sizes stocked in many head styles and lengths in both brass and burr-free stainless. Matching taps, chasers, and gages available. Write/FAX for catalog or send for prompt quotation. - J. Malcolm Wild (Clocks) 12 Norton Green Close Sheffield S8 8BP England Telephone: 0742 745693 Supplies and accessories for clockmaking. - The Jeweler's Loupe 1625 Crenshaw Blvd. Torrance, CA 90501 (310)320-7005 - Kitts Industrial Tools 22384 Grand River Avenue Detroit, MI 48219 800-521-6579, 313-538-2585 in MI, 313-538-6499 (fax) Credit cards, COD's $25 minimum order M-Sa 9-5 EST Cutting tools, hand tools, air tools, supplies Quality ranges from ultra-classy, great deals, garbage-at-any-price import 150 page catalog - Klockit P.O. Box 636 Lake Geneva, WI 53147 (800) KLOCKIT (i.e. (800) 556-2548) Books, kits, plans, tools, parts for clocks and watches. - Lasquad Metals 419 N. 13th Street San Jose, CA (408) 294-3686 Hours: 10-5 M-F, 10-2 Sat. According to John Kopf, LASQUAD stands for "Loose And Sloppy, QUick And Dirty". Mostly aluminum ($2.60/lb new, 1.50 surplus), some brass (2.75 new, 2.00 surplus), some copper, stainless steel, etc. Its a couple of miles from Enco. Didn't sound like they'd take phone or mail orders but I haven't tried. - Lindsay Publications Inc. P. O. Box 538 Bradley, IL 60915-0538 (815) 935-5353 Lindsay publishes books for the home shop, covering casting, forging, machining, and a few plans for building engines and such. It has been reported that their catalog is "a bit bizarre" but the service is fast. Their electrical catalog has cross-over projects that include light (pun intended?) metalworking. - Mason & Sullivan 210 Wood County Industrial Park Parkersburg, WV 26102-1686 800-225-1153 (orders), 800-535-4486 (technical advice), 800-535-4482 (customer service), 304-428-8271 (FAX) Supplier of clock kits, plans, parts, and tools. In business since 1947, they recently went out of business, and have re-appeared owned in part by the employees, though they also appear to be affiliated with the Woodcraft company (same address!) - McMaster-Carr Supply Company PO Box 440 New Brunswick NJ 08903-0440 USA 908-329-3200 (Sales), 908-329-6666 (Other Departments), 908-329-3772 (FAX) Also has stocking sales centers in Atlanta, Chicago, and Los Angeles. Note that they apparently only deal with companies. Jim Harres reports that they refused to send him a catalog. Prints an annual 2600+ page catalog. Very complete supplier with tools, screws, shelving, wheels, lamps, heaters, air conditioners, plumbing, electrical supplies, plastics, metals, pumps, containers, motors, gauges, paint brushes, hooks, door hardware, pH testers, microscopes, etc. Metric and english threads and sizes, too. Small bits of information, reference charts and advice are scattered throughout the catalog. No minimum order. Satisfaction Guaranteed, whatever that means. No problem with returns, but they ask that you get specific return instructions before shipping anything back. All prices subject to change. Visa and MasterCard accepted. Prices are quoted plus actual shipping. Experience with McMaster-Carr is very good. They do update (read: raise) their prices frequently, so don't believe catalog prices. Get a quote before buying. Expect the catalog to be 10% low. Shipments have been prompt, complete, and accurate. Prices seem high, but they make up for it with "one-stop" shopping. - Metal Buyer's Mart, Ltd. (formerly Metal By Mail) N-15 W 22218 Watertown Road, Unit #3 Waukesha, WI 53186 (800) 657-0721, (414) 547-3860 (FAX) $2 catalog, which contains decent descriptions of what they sell (hardness, machinability, etc.). Ferrous and nonferrous metals, fasteners, and a few nonmetallic materials such as nylon and teflon. - Micro-Mark 340 Snyder Avenue Berkeleyheights NJ 07922-1595 (800) 225-1066, (908) 665-9383 Miniature tools & things, including Sherline lathes and mills. "Weensy" nonferrous tube, rod, sheet. Everything sold in small quantities. Prices not superb, but some of the items can't be found elsewhere. - MSC Industrial Supply Co. 151 Sunnyside Blvd Plainview, NY 11803 (800) 645-7270 (AT&T), (800) 753-7900 (MCI), (800) 255-5067 FAX Their 92/93 catalog is 1950 pages, and their selection has been described as "dumbfounding". - Nordex, Inc. 50 Newton Road P.O. Box 1956 Danbury, CT. 06813 (800) 243-0986 Usual range of precision components. Spur gears down to .25" O.D. - Norm Larson Books 5426 E. Hwy 246 Lompoc, CA 93436 (800) 743-4766, (805) 735-2095 "... books on just about every subject about metal working there is." - Omega Engineering P.O. Box 2669 Stamford, CT 06906 (203) 359-1660 Mentioned as a source for pyrometers and/or materials for making thermocouples and other process-measurement stuff. - Penn Tool Company 1776 Springfield Ave Maplewood, NJ 07040 (800) 526-4956 A very-well-stocked supplier with a very large selection of drills, taps, reamers, and other machining tools. However, in some cases their prices seem outrageous, so check around first. On the other hand, they may be the only source for that odd-sized spiral-flute reamer you need, or that #00 tap. Their catalogs are free; there is a small (196 pages in 1993) one and a large one (410 pages, catalog no. P-912 as of late 1992), so ask for both (they may only send you the short one if you say you're a hobbyist). - PIC Design P.O. Box 1004 Benson Road Middlebury, CT. 06762 (800) 243-6125 Usual range of precision components. Gears down to less than 3/8" O.D. - Power Model Supply Rt 1 Box 177 NW Cor Hwy 67 & Lond Rd Desoto, MO 63020 (314) 586-6466 Similar to Cole's but heavier on the trains. Detailed engineering drawings for about 15 different engines. They also carry various metals. - Reactive Metals Studio Box 890 Clarkdale, AZ 86324 (800)876-3434, (602)634-3434 Niobium, mixed metals, for jewelry and perhaps other purposes. - Reid Tool Supply Company 2265 Black Creek Road Muskegon, MI 49444-2684 (800) 253-0421, (616) 777-3951, (616) 773-4485 (FAX) Prints a 350+ page catalog twice a year. Very complete assortment of knobs, screws, clamps, springs, air hoses and couplings, drills, mills, taps, machinist's tooling, and books. No minimum order, 30-day return with full refund. Offers rework and specialty items with special conditions and terms. - River Gems and Findings (formerly Rio Grande) Dept T1 6801 Washington NE Albuquerque, NM 87109 (800)545-6566 orders, (800)533-3299 service, (505)344-9671 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Rutland Tool & Supply 16700 E. Gale Avenue City of Industry, CA. 91745-0587 (800) 289-4787, (818) 961-7111, (800) 333-3787 (FAX) (courtesy of Jon Bork) Rutland is a general machine shop supply house, with a good selection of tools, machines and accessories. They primarily deal with professionals, but I have dealt with them in person and by phone and they have always been helpful and quick. They send out several catalogs yearly including a new safety equipment supply catalog. Their prices are reasonable and they stock both top of the line and "quality import" selections for most items. - S. LaRose, Inc. 234 Commerce Place, P.O. Box 21208 Greensboro, NC 27420 (919) 275-0462 Watch and clock movements, repair parts, supplies, tools, equipment. - Scanlon American Reprints P.O. Box 379 Modesto, CA 95353 (209) 667-2907 Scanlon sells many books on clocks. - Secs, Inc. 520 Homestead Ave. Mt. Vernon, N.Y. 10550 (914) 667-5600 General line of precision hardware, gears, pulleys, clutches, etc. - Servo Products Company 433 N. Fair Oaks Ave., Box 90370 Pasadena, CA 91109 (818) 796-2460, (818) 796-3845 (FAX) Small precision drill presses and milling machines, including a whopping expensive CNC mill ($15,000). Power feeds for mills. CNC small lathe, CNC add-on for large mills. - Small Parts, Inc. 13980 N.W. 58th Court P.O. Box 4650 Miami Lakes, FL. 33014 (305) 557-8222, (800) 423-9009 (FAX) Nicest line of supplies and hardware for prototype builders. Specifically targeted for small quantities. Catalog includes prices. More fun than the Sears catalog. - Stock Drive Products 2101 Jericho Turnpike Box 5416 New Hyde Park, NY 11042-5416 (516) 328-3300 These folks make all sorts of gears, drives, bearings, couplings, and related stuff. Small, not hydroelectric-sized. Ask them for their free publication "Handbook of Gears." They also publish "Handbook of Shafts, Bearings & Couplings," "Handbook of Timing Belts, Chains & Friction Drives," "Handbook of Design Components," "Aluminum Extrusions & Accessories." They also package the whole set (I asked for just the handbook of gears and got all five). - Swest, Inc. 11090 Stemmons Frwy Dallas, TX 75220 (800)527-5057, (214)247-7744, (214)247-5307 fax Jewelry-making tools, perhaps more. - Tee Publishing Edwards Centre Regent Street Hinckley Leics. LE100BB England 0455-637173/616419 From England, they publish Engineering in Miniature and other magazines. Similar to Argus, they have clockmaking books as well. They state they are the world's only company specializing in back issues of Model Engineer. - Travers Tool Company, Inc. 128-15 26th Avenue P.O. Box 1550 Flushing, NY 11354-0108 (800) 221-0270, (718) 886-7200, (800) 722-0703 (FAX), (718) 886-7895 (FAX) Prints a 500+ page large catalog once per year, and also sales flyers. Very complete line of tooling for machinists, including micrometers, mills, drills, reamers, broaches, taps, collets, tool posts, lathe tools, grinding wheels and stones, files, gages, vices, indicators, precision steel pieces, glops and goos, books, and some power tools. $25.00 minimum order. Visa, MasterCard, American Express accepted. Replace, refund, or full credit within 60 days of purchase (buyer's choice). Prices are subject to change without notice. Experience with Travers has been good. They are less expensive than McMaster-Carr and other full-price dealers. They sell premium and no-name lines of many similar tools so that you only buy the "quality" that you need. Their performance on orders was once imperfect, but they stand behind their merchandise, so correcting the error was easy, fast, and painless. I have ordered from them many times, so "one minor error out of many" is a good grade. - Vigor, sold by FDJ 2221 Lee Road, Suite #1 Winter Park, FL 32789 (800) 323-6091 (orders) (407) 629-6906 (407) 645-0707 (FAX) (FDJ is the company name, and sells the Vigor line) Jeweler's tools, video tapes, books, retailing supplies, and many universal tools being targeted at jewelers. Tweezers, ring forms, molds, forges, files, small lathes, loupes, calipers, torches, solders and brazing material, mountings, etc. An informative catalog. Very wide selection, but prices seem very high. - Village Press P.O. Box 1810 2779 Aero Park Drive Traverse City, MI 49685 (800) 447-7367, (616) 946-3712 Publishers of Home Shop Machinist, Projects in Metal, and Live Steam. Some back issues available; older ones are available as parts of several book series. See the individual entries in the "magazines" question. They also publish other books such as "So You Want to Build a Live Steam Locomotive." - Wholesale Tool (Stu Friedberg's favorite!) PO Box 68 Warren, MI 48089-0068 12155 Stephen Drive Warren, MI 48089-3962 800-521-3420, 800-521-3661 (fax), 313-754-9270, 313-754-8652 (fax) Broader selection of hand tools, fewer large machines than IP&S. Fork lifts. No bulk metals, but tool steel, shim stock, threaded rod, etc. Vast selection of cutting tools and grinding wheels. Scattering of interesting surplus items. Definitely oriented toward professional users, not hobbyists. Full line distributors for most instrument makers. 500 page full line catalog twice a year. You have to order by 8 digit stock number, so copy carefully. :-) 6 locations, main site in Warren, MI. Most items at most locations, some items in Michigan only, very few at other locations only. Credit cards, COD's with some payment restrictions $25 minimum order The other locations: PO Box 481 Stoughton, MA 02072-0481 1234 Washington Street (Route 138) Stoughton, MA 02072-3345, 800-343-1008, 617-344-0338, 617-341-0617 (fax) PO Box 700 Brandon, FL 33509-0700 9212 Adamo Drive Tampa, FL 33619-2631 800-237-4689, 813-623-3099, 813-623-5816 (fax) PO Box 470952 Tulsa, OK 74147-0952 9909 East 55th Place Tulsa, OK 74146-6404 800-331-4075, 918-627-2240, 918-627-2044 (fax) PO Box 240965 Charlotte, NC 28224-0965 4200 Barringer Drive Charlotte, NC 28217-1512 800-438-3580, 704-527-4071, 704-523-7960 (fax) 8100 Pinemont Drive Houston, TX 77040-6522 800-231-4585, 713-895-7777, 713-895-8113 (fax) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Mon Feb 7 12:56:12 EST 1994 Article: 3634 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Motor Question Message-ID: Date: Sun, 06 Feb 94 09:09:41 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: Lines: 71 gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) says: >In article <11!4!vq@dixie.com>, jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) wrote: >> >> The only way to >> tell without guessing is to put a wattmeter inline and measure the >> power consumption. Ain't no other way. > >That's only one way of determining power input to the motor. You can use a >voltmeter, and ammeter, and some way of determining phase, such as either a >phase meter or an oscilloscope, to accomplish the same purpose. However, >power input is irrelevant to motor heating. > >> Lacking a wattmeter, >> measuring the winding temperature is the next best bet. >> > >Motor heating is caused by I**2 * R heating in the windings, I**2 * R >heating due to eddy currents, hysteresis losses in the iron, and friction [A bunch of boring and irrelevant crap deleted.] >Consequently, motor current *is* the appropriate variable to measure. What say we look at some real data to evaluate that claim. I picked a nondescript 1/10 hp split-phase motor out of my junkbox and instrumented it. It is small enough that I could load it by dragging a shop towel against the attached flywheel but large enough to produce an upscale indication on my instruments. Instruments consist of a Westinghouse in-line electrodynamic wattmeter with a spec of +- 1/4% full scale. Ammeter is a Fluke 88 DVM. The numbers: Line voltage: 130 Condition Watts VA PF Amps %FLW %FLA -------------------------------------------------------------------- idle (no load) 20 65 .31 0.5 22% 71% ~50% of full load 45 78 .57 0.6 50% 85% Full load * 90 91 .99 0.7 100% 100% * Determined by measuring the RPM with a strobotach and loading it until the RPM drops 10%. (motor lacked a nameplate.) FLA = Full Load Amps FLW = Full Load Watts VA = volt-amps PF = power factor It is pretty obvious that the FLA is NOT a sensitive indication of loading. It is also obvious how the power factor changes as the motor is loaded. Though I didn't take the time to measure it, I know from years of experience that the winding temperature rises approximately proportional to load. When a motor is at its maximum load (which may be more than its rated load), the temperature will rise approximately that allowed on the nameplate. If the motor has a service factor of 1.0 (typical cheap compressor motor) and the rated rise is 80 deg C, the windings will approximate that rise above ambient at full load. If the service factor is 1.2 (typical of quality motors), the max winding rise will occur at about 120% of full load. Note that this is the actual winding temperature and not the outer shell temperature. All these specifications are on the nameplate. I repeat, the best way of determining full load is with a wattmeter. The second best way is to measure winding temperature. A distant third and worst way is to look at the amps. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com Performance Engineering Magazine. Email to me published at my sole discretion "Dr. Kevorkian, please report to the Oval Office." From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!pacbell.com!amdahl!juts.ccc.amdahl.com!opus!tky00 Mon Feb 7 12:56:13 EST 1994 Article: 3635 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!pacbell.com!amdahl!juts.ccc.amdahl.com!opus!tky00 From: tky00@eng.amdahl.com (Tim Yoshihara) Subject: How do I restore rusted steel wheels? Message-ID: <1994Feb6.222414.9334@ccc.amdahl.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com (UTS Tech Support) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 22:24:14 GMT Lines: 17 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4536 rec.crafts.metalworking:3635 I have a 1971 Honda 600 sedan that I am restoring. The stock steel wheels (10" diameter) are extremely rusted in the tire bead seating area. The rest of the wheel looks good. The only area that has major rust is the bead area. I have tried to find anyone that can put new rims on the old centers, but they don't have any 10" rims. Also, I am taking cost into account. It may be cheaper (and funcional) to go to a non-stock option. My first thought is 13" wheels with low-profile tires. But, then I have to do body work to clear the wider tires. Do any of you netters have any ideas as to how I should go about cleaning these up and making them usable again? I am also concerned about safety. The welds and centers look ok. But, the rust/pitting looks bad. Thanks, Tim Yoshihara From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Mon Feb 7 12:56:14 EST 1994 Article: 3636 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Motor Question References: <2ir96m$oct@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <11!4!vq@dixie.com> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 21 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 19:53:34 +0000 Message-ID: <760564414snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk Isn't measuring winding temperature the *best* way to work ? Think about it. The little brass plate on the back of the motor isn't gospel, it's just a recommendation of maximum power from the makers (measured in W, VA, HP, furlongs-per-fortnight or whatever). How the makers determine this maximum rating is by looking at what sort of power will damage the motor, and reducing that for a safety margin. For "average" motors, the damage factor isn't going to be snapping the output shaft, over-speeding the bearings or over-currenting (sic) the brushgear, it's going to be overheating the windings. Measuring the winding temperature is thus not only more convenient than the problematic measurement of AC power, but it's actually a *better* guide to the health of the motor. NB - This assumes you're measuring the winding temperature, not the outside case temperature. I'm sure that the moderately devious can work something out with small thermocouple probes. -- Andy Dingley Codesmiths of Newcastle dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk Save the whales ! Collect the whole set From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!slip1-18.acs.ohio-state.edu!user Mon Feb 7 12:56:15 EST 1994 Article: 3637 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!slip1-18.acs.ohio-state.edu!user From: ujonsson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ulf Jonsson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: BA-Tread, The story?? Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 6 Feb 1994 23:50:54 GMT Organization: Ohio State University Lines: 24 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: slip1-18.acs.ohio-state.edu I found a table over BA-Treads in a handbook. To me the system looks like some funny logaritmic scaled system based on BA-0 wich have metric dimensions. (I think BA-0 have 6mm dia and 1mm pitch). The diameters and the pitch for the other threads in the serie is not eaven in either decimal or fractional inces or in SI units. And the profile is has 47.2 degree angle instead of 55 or 60! A friend of me had heard that it was based on an old watch makers thread. And that they was used in car-electric system and instruments. Can we blame LUCAS for this :-) What is the story behind this strange system and why is it used by Stuart? Are they used at all today (exept in Stuarts steam engines)? Is there a source for Hexagonal head screws with normal threads (preferably metric) that is machined by cutting tools instead of forging-rolling so that they look like Stuarts very beautiful screws? Ulf From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!sorlin Mon Feb 7 12:56:16 EST 1994 Article: 3638 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!sorlin From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: How do I restore rusted steel wheels? Date: 6 Feb 1994 23:54:36 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 36 Message-ID: <2j3vvs$of6@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <1994Feb6.222414.9334@ccc.amdahl.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4539 rec.crafts.metalworking:3638 In article <1994Feb6.222414.9334@ccc.amdahl.com>, Tim Yoshihara wrote: >I have a 1971 Honda 600 sedan that I am restoring. > >The stock steel wheels (10" diameter) are extremely rusted in the [bla bla bla] If you want the original style 10" wheels, then I don't have any advice for you, except to try foreign car junk yards. 10" wheels are a pretty common size for some trailers, and "off highway" vehicles. (i.e. golf carts, etc..) I don't know about around you, but there are a number of wheel factories by me that make all different sizes for tracters/ trailers/ other vehicles. You may be able to match up something through one of those places. They will also be able to fix you up with tires. However, I don't know if they will be approved for highway use or not.. About restoring yours. If the rust near the bead seating area isn't that bad, you may be able to get away with just sand blasting, or bead blasting them clean of rust. This will leave a rough finish, and I'm not sure if a tire will seat to that, but then you can smooth the metal out with steel wool/ wire brush/ polish, etc.. Also, painting the non rusted surface will increase the chances that the tire will seal. Good Luck. steve From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!demoax.enet.dec.com!ginger Mon Feb 7 12:56:18 EST 1994 Article: 3639 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!demoax.enet.dec.com!ginger From: ginger@demoax.enet.dec.com (Ron Ginger) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: OLD ENGINES Date: 6 FEB 94 20:31:17 Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 30 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2j461p$5sd@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> References: <2ip8af$l1r@news.service.uci.edu> <1994Feb4.165410.16726@dsea.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: demoax.enet.dec.com >You two would probably die if you went to the working "Transportation >Museme" on the central coast in Maine. No, I do not remember the town >right now, but all they do is fix antique engines and put them into >antique applications. Planes, cars, motorcycles, pumps, generators, >boats, locomotives and whacked-out things you would never think of. > >I think you can get there by boat, but you certainly can drive or fly >in ( I've done both ). > The place in Maine is the Owls Head transportation Museum, at Owls Head ariport just outside Rockland Maine. Its about mid-way up the maine coast. The airport is a small comuter type, with lots of private aircraft. It does have service to Boston. The museum is mostly into airplanes. They have several real or replica antiques and on any summer weekend do regular flying shows- the flying farmer, the Red Baron in a triplane etc. They periodically hold auctions of 'mechanincal' things. In the past it was a great auction of model engines and various engines. They have not held one for a couple years, but have announced one for this summer. I dont know the exct date. They aslo have some stationary engines, quite a car collection and a Lombard Steam Log hauler. One annual event is a Truck weekend. Good place, worth a visit for any mechanical interest person. ron ginger From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Mon Feb 7 12:56:19 EST 1994 Article: 3640 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Date: 7 Feb 1994 09:00:40 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 51 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2j4vvo$e4k@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: <2ipv5u$104@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <2iqp0c$ca4@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> <2ir96m$oct@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <1994Feb4.132359.5445@mlb.semi.harris.com> <2itv74$jgq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk In article <2itv74$jgq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) writes: |> |> In a previous article, jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. |> Swonger) says: |> |> > The previous suggestion about checking the motor case for heat is |> >about the best way to go. See, cheap compresors use cheap motors |> and |> |> With ammeters,voltmeters, and watt meters available, why all the |> guesswork? |> Current draw varies DIRECTLY with the load, and is a excellent |> indicator of |> what is happening. This motor cost me $150.00, and I do NOT want to |> destroy it to find the maximum load. The ratings printed on the motor |> are |> there just for the reason of telling you what should be going on. |> My compresser is not a 'cheap' one, I just need a couple of more |> cfm's |> from it.... |> -- Thanks James, for the support ;-) The reason why ammeters, etc. will not help you is that the greatest factor in motor efficiency, all other things being equal, is the build quality. Good quality European and USA motors will have a very small gap between the static field coils and the rotating parts. This minimises power loss. Far-eastern motors are not built to such fine tolerances, and the resultant large gap leads to wasted power and hence heat. The end result is that a good-quality motor will give a far greater torque before stalling than the cheaper one. The only "scientific" way to go is to apply a calibrated braking mechanism to the shaft with an ammeter on the power and a thermometer in the windings, and find out the power output you can get without exceeding the manufacturor's rated max. temperature. Now take a calibrated power source and measure how much power input is needed to drive your compressor before and after conversion. Now compare the two. I think putting your hand on the case is easier. David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Mon Feb 7 12:56:20 EST 1994 Article: 3641 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: BA-Tread, The story?? Date: 7 Feb 1994 09:09:54 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 25 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2j50h2$e4k@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk In article , ujonsson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ulf Jonsson) writes: |> Is there a source for Hexagonal head screws with normal threads (preferably |> metric) that is machined by cutting tools instead of forging-rolling so |> that they look like Stuarts very beautiful screws? |> |> |> Ulf I can name a dozen, but they're all in the UK. Alternatively, if you have the technology, you can make your own. By this I mean a lathe, dies and some suitable hex stock. If the lathe won't do metric threads then the dies will be good enough for short bolts/screws, as long as the lathe is used to keep things straight. ...presuming you have a lathe. -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!news.eunet.no!nuug!ade!einar Mon Feb 7 12:56:21 EST 1994 Article: 3642 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!news.eunet.no!nuug!ade!einar From: einar@ade.no (Einar Sjaavik) Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: How do I restore rusted steel wheels? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 07 Feb 94 10:41:45 CET References: <2j3vvs$of6@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Organization: AD Elektronikk AS, Norway Lines: 23 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4545 rec.crafts.metalworking:3642 sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes: > I don't know about around you, but there are a number of wheel factories by > me that make all different sizes for tracters/ trailers/ other vehicles. Austin/Morris Mini wheel rims are 10". But will the center fit? If the original poster states the bolt pattern measurements, I will go measure my Mini wheels. ( In MAIL please, as I miss postings here ) > About restoring yours. If the rust near the bead seating area isn't that bad > you may be able to get away with just sand blasting, or bead blasting them > clean of rust. This will leave a rough finish, and I'm not sure if a tire > will seat to that, but then you can smooth the metal out with steel wool/ > wire brush/ polish, etc.. Sand blasting will harden the steel. I would not do that to a wheel. It can get brittle, and develop cracks. My suggestion is Rust Eater + time. Most probably several times over. Or, run it over with a torch welder with the setting way too oxygen rich. With care not to heat too much, or the metal will go too. Einar@ade.no From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!linus!pscgate.progress.com!progress.progress.com!bedford.progress.COM!leach Mon Feb 7 12:56:23 EST 1994 Article: 3643 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!linus!pscgate.progress.com!progress.progress.com!bedford.progress.COM!leach From: leach@bedford.progress.COM (Patrick Leach) Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Date: 7 Feb 1994 11:06:13 GMT Organization: Progress Software Corp. Lines: 31 Sender: leach@tubuai (Patrick Leach) Distribution: world Message-ID: <2j57b5$otn@progress.progress.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: tubuai.progress.com Keywords: treadle Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:32535 rec.crafts.metalworking:3643 In article , stevenj@microsoft.com (Steven Johnson) writes: |> I'm interested in the history of old treadle-powered machinery |> (including scroll saws, lathes, sewing machines, tablesaws, drills, |> etc. etc.). However, I haven't been able to find a good book or |> information source on the companies that made these machines, histories |> of their inventors, or reprints from companies catalogs that describe |> these machines. I know there are hundreds (or at least dozens) of these |> types of books for planemakers --isn't there something similar for |> these machines? |> Steve, there isn't much written on this subject since there aren't a lot of collectors of it for the simple reason that the stuff is so bulky (if only the idea of making them into lamps caught on, maybe that would make for more documentation). I have seen a reprint of a Barnes broadside which pictures many of their products. I also recall seeing some of the treadle machinery pictured in hardware catalog reprints, though I can't remember which ones exactly. You ought to join EAIA and Midwest, where this special- ized stuff gets some occasional press. Too bad I didn't know you several years ago. I had a spiffy combination scroll saw and lathe with all kinds of pinstriping on it. I practically had to give it away. I also had a nice foot-operated morticing machine with all its knives. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Leach Just say It woulda made one hell of a mailbox post. etc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Mon Feb 7 12:56:24 EST 1994 Article: 3644 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Welder choice for auto welding Message-ID: <1615.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 6 Feb 94 00:25:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 10 -> Why would race cars used brazed frames when there are stronger -> methods of attachment? I didn't know they did this. Generally, cost -> is of little consequence to these folks, right? Brazing -> wouldn't be any lighter, either- Would it? Low temps don't mess up the heat treat as much, less distortion of the metal, ease of assembly and repair. Ron Fournier's metalworking book shows a brazed-chassis CSR racer. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Mon Feb 7 12:56:25 EST 1994 Article: 3645 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: How do I restore rusted steel wheels? Message-ID: <1655.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 7 Feb 94 07:42:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 15 -> Do any of you netters have any ideas as to how I should go about -> cleaning these up and making them usable again? I am also concerned -> about safety. The welds and centers look ok. But, the rust/pitting -> looks bad. Use a wire wheel and four favorite rust dissolver, then a good smooth coat of epoxy. Your local hobby supply place can fix you up with all sorts of epoxy. You might see if the wheels from a Mini will fit. The British and Japanese shared a lot of technology back in the '60s. Good luck with your car! I always liked the Honda 600. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!nic.cerf.net!jonesm Mon Feb 7 12:56:26 EST 1994 Article: 3646 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!nic.cerf.net!jonesm From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Argus Pans Service Question Date: 7 Feb 1994 17:07:23 GMT Organization: CERFnet Dial n' CERF Customer Lines: 19 Message-ID: <2j5sgb$hr2@news.cerf.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.cerf.net A while ago I sent off to Argus to get their catalog of Westbury's Internal Combustion Engine plans. They sent me back a list of the catalogs they offer but it is not clear to me which one contains the Internal Combustion plans. It looks as if it is either handhook 1 or 2. Could anyone tell me which one it is. Also does anyone know if they take Master Card (since I'm in the USA it makes the currancy change much easier.). Also in an old Argus catalog they list Whelans Models as suppliers of castings for some of Westbury's models, but I can't find their address. Does anyone know their address. If they are not in business then is there a supplier of the Kittiwake casting kit. I would prefer responses by email. Matthew Jones jones@io.dsd.litton.com (preferred) jonesm@cerf.net From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Wed Feb 9 09:50:20 EST 1994 Article: 3647 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 7 Feb 1994 17:37:32 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 67 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article , jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) wrote: > > gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) says: > [Bunch of electrically ignorant crap deleted] Except for the following really ignorant crap: > I know from > years of experience that the winding temperature rises approximately > proportional to load. [and much more of the same] >From 22 years of education, including a Ph.D. EE, and years of experience at Grand Coulee Dam as a field engineer instrumenting motors and generators of various sizes until I could do it in my sleep, John, you're full of it. The main source of motor heat is winding current, followed by either eddy current losses or hysteresis losses. > > I repeat, the best way of determining full load is with a wattmeter. > The second best way is to measure winding temperature. A distant third > and worst way is to look at the amps. > Well, repeating it doesn't make it so. It just shows determined ignorance, although the above sentence is technically correct but you don't know it. Full load is usually taken as motor shaft horsepower output, which is related to heating only by loss mechanisms, not shaft output. A wattmeter shows you mechanical output plus all losses, but in almost any motor of normal efficiency, shaft horsepower dominates. A small calculation should convince all but the most determined fool: motor efficiency is normally above 90% for most induction motors. Consequently, at full load you're seeing at most a 10% variation in wattmeter reading due to heating, friction, and windage. Given a nominal 1% accuracy for an analog wattmeter, you couldn't determine losses to better than 10%. And about half the losses are not functions of current or shaft load, they are essential constant. Get smart, dude. Now to blow away a bunch of other misinformation: 1) it's claimed that you ought to measure winding temperature rather than believing the nameplate because somehow manufacturers just fake up the motor ratings - Don't be ridiculous! How do you think manufacturers determined motor heating characteristics in the first place? They instrument the windings on test examples, including either RTDs or thermocouples. The ratings on the nameplate reflect their findings and are to NEMA standards. You think you're good enough to do better? I don't. I haven't seen a post in this entire thread (besides mine) that indicates that any of you understand electrical machinery. How you expect to do better than a pro can only be a triumph of wishful thinking over reason. 2) It was claimed that foreign motors dissipated more heat because of wider air gaps, and a variety of other arcana - An inaccurate air gap causes problems, but because of decreased flux linkage between the armature and the rotor. This causes increased parasitic inductance which increases the motor's vars, but doesn't directly increase losses. The major increase in heating that can be caused by air gap irregularities is because the rotor drags on the armature iron, a situation immediately noticeable to all but the drugged. The author of this particular bit of information seemed to think it was some sort of progressive disease, which, with the exception of deteriorating bearings, it isn't. If you've got a Taiwanese or other foreign motor, and it works ok now, it'll probably keep cranking just like it is for a long time. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.byu.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!flying!frisbie Wed Feb 9 09:50:21 EST 1994 Article: 3648 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.byu.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: BA-Tread, The story?? Message-ID: <1994Feb7.094507.199@flying-disk.com> Date: 7 Feb 94 09:45:07 PST References: Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 42 In article , ujonsson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ulf Jonsson) writes: > Is there a source for Hexagonal head screws with normal threads (preferably > metric) that is machined by cutting tools instead of forging-rolling so > that they look like Stuarts very beautiful screws? I think what you are looking for are "Model Hex Head Bolts". These are bolts (and nuts) with the heads cut to scale dimensions instead of the larger hardware store variety. I don't know where to get metric bolts of this type. I just checked the Reeves (UK) catalog and they only had BA. You can get US sizes from Power Model Supply Co. and Coles' Power Models, Inc. Their catalogs cost $5.00, but are worth it if you intend to do any amount of model building. At P.M.S., bolts are available in single sizes and assortments from 0-80 through 10-32, and in brass, steel and stainless steel. Nuts are available in both hex and square shapes. Power Model Supply Co. Route 1, Box 177 N.W Corner of Hwy 67 and Long Rd. De Soto, MO 63020 (314) 586-6466 At Coles, they do not have assortments and have only brass and steel. They do, however, go up to size 12-24. Coles' Power Models Inc. 839 E. Front Street P.O. Box 788 Ventura, CA 93001 (805) 643-7065 (Call 9:00 AM to noon, Mon-Fri) -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jcr57394 Wed Feb 9 09:50:21 EST 1994 Article: 3649 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jcr57394 From: jcr57394@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Joshua C. Ruedin) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Damascus steel Date: 7 Feb 1994 20:19:09 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 7 Message-ID: <2j67nt$jur@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Summary: Damascus steel? Keywords: Damascus steel Does anyone know of a source for Damascus-type steel knife blade blanks? You know, the stuff with the patterns in it? It's really pretty stuff, but pretty expensive to buy as a knife... From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!suncad!island.amtsgi.bc.ca!island!smorley Wed Feb 9 09:50:22 EST 1994 Article: 3650 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!suncad!island.amtsgi.bc.ca!island!smorley From: smorley@island.amtsgi.bc.ca (Stephen Morley at Visions-FX) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Blades??? Date: 7 Feb 1994 21:43:53 GMT Organization: Island Net BBS - Victoria, B.C. Canada Lines: 15 Message-ID: <2j6cmp$njg@island.amtsgi.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.amtsgi.bc.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Hi, I'm interested in learning how to make knives and swords for ornamental hanging on the wall. I'm not sure if this is the right newsgroup for this, let me know Thanx... _________________ Stephen S. Morley +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |"Turning your Dreams into Reality!" Vision-FX@amtsgi.bc.ca| +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!butch!charybdis!longcore Wed Feb 9 09:50:22 EST 1994 Article: 3651 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!butch!charybdis!longcore From: longcore@charybdis (Jeff Ray Longcore) Subject: Re: OLD ENGINES Message-ID: Sender: news@butch.lmsc.lockheed.com Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Co. X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <2ip8af$l1r@news.service.uci.edu> <1994Feb4.165410.16726@dsea.com> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 22:50:20 GMT Lines: 18 Frank Evan Perdicaro (frank@dsea.com) wrote: : In article <2ip8af$l1r@news.service.uci.edu> dparsons@plasma.ps.uci.edu () writes: : You two would probably die if you went to the working "Transportation : Museme" on the central coast in Maine. No, I do not remember the town : right now, but all they do is fix antique engines and put them into : antique applications. Planes, cars, motorcycles, pumps, generators, : boats, locomotives and whacked-out things you would never think of. Cool place. I was there for an air show a few years ago. There wasn't enough time in the day. Plus too many people, and I couldn't play with anything :-(. I think the full name of the place is the "Owl's Head Transportation Musem". I think it is in Owl's Head, Maine (suprisingly enough). It has been too long. - Jeff -- longcore@lmsc.lockheed.com #include From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!srgenprp!frankb Wed Feb 9 09:50:23 EST 1994 Article: 3652 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!srgenprp!frankb From: frankb@sad.hp.com (Frank Ball) Subject: Re: Afghan Rifles Sender: news@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (News Administrator) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 01:12:59 GMT References: <2iubnu$k07@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.4] Lines: 15 John Kopf, X6305 (kopfj@Tymnet.COM) wrote: & There is a video put out by Colonial Williamsburg that slows how a rifle is & built using 17th century technology. It shows the forging and rifling of & the barrels. See if your library has it, or can get it for you. This is an amazing video. They started with: a tree, a brick of iron, a lump of brass, some spring steel sheet, hacksaw blades, and files. From this they could make a rifle. It took weeks. -- Frank Ball 1UR-M frankb@sad.hp.com (707) 794-4168 work, Hewlett Packard (707) 794-3844 fax, (707) 538-3693 home 1212 Valley House Drive IT175, XT350, Seca 750, '62 F-100, PL510 Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999 KC6WUG, LAW, AMA, Dod #7566, NMLRA, NRA. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!pcies4.trl.OZ.AU!drew Wed Feb 9 09:50:23 EST 1994 Article: 3653 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!trlluna!titan!pcies4.trl.OZ.AU!drew From: drew@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond) Subject: Old Rosebery Vertical Engines Message-ID: Keywords: Engine Lines: 42 Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 01:23:17 GMT At our home on the outskirts of suburban Melbourne, we have no "town" water supply. For our garden water we still use an old Rosebery vertical cylinder engine coupled to a three-piston water pump to raise dam water to a tank 160' head through 1000' of 1-1/4" pipe. I believe there were thousands of these engines made at the Rosebery (NSW) works of the Westinghouse Company. They made (I think) 2, 3, 4 and 6 HP units. Our 3 HP example is maybe 50 years old, and still gives reliable service. We go through about 1000 to 2000g of garden water each week in summer. It's my job to operate and maintain the thing. Piston diameter is about 4 inches, with a stroke of about (from memory) 6 inches. Usual operating RPM is about 700 to 1000. They were designed for use on farms as power sources for milking and shearing machines, pumps and home lighting (electricity) plant. The usual mode of operation is to start the beast on regular petrol (gas), then when it has warmed up a bit; switch across to power kerosine (paraffin). The engine is cooled by water evaporation from a hopper, mounted upon the head. One hopper of water lasts for about 8 or 9 hours work, depending on ambient temperature. Fuel is drawn from the tank by the negative pressure produced by the down- stroke of the piston. A ball type check-valve keeps the fuel from flowing back to the tank. Carburation is by use of a "vaporiser". Down-stroke on the intake cycle forces open a diaphragm which allows air to enter a simple venturi, thus atomising the fuel and drawing the mixture into the cylinder for combustion. Starting the thing needs a bit of muscle. The exposed flywheel is positioned at TDC, then four brisk turns of the detachable handle should produce a pleasing "choof"- and off she goes. The flywheel key on the shaft throws the handle off and clear of the flywheel- a little bit scarry for the novice. The three pison water pump is interesting too. Each of the three cylinders has a pair of stainless steel balls operating as valves. When the pump piston is on the down-stroke- the bottom ball pops up and allows water to enter the cylinder. On the up-stroke, the bottom ball seats down, and the upper ball pops up and water is pushed into the pipe. The three pistons are phased 120 degrees apart. Constancy of water flow is obtained with an air-filled reservior placed at the water outlet manifold. Drew. Telecom Australia Research Laboratories. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Wed Feb 9 09:50:24 EST 1994 Article: 3654 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Motor Question Distribution: world References: Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 42 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 23:04:37 +0000 Message-ID: <760662277snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov "gary preckshot" writes: > Now to blow away a bunch of other misinformation: > > 1) it's claimed that you ought to measure winding temperature rather than > believing the nameplate because somehow manufacturers just fake up the > motor ratings - > > Don't be ridiculous! How do you think manufacturers determined motor > heating characteristics in the first place? Isn't that just what I said in my original posting ? The *problem* we have here is that someone has a motor which they may or may not be overloaded, and needs some way of measuring this. There is a magic number of HP stamped on the makers plate, but there isn't a simple means of measuring power available. You can't describe the motor's present power as a percentage of rated power, if you can't measure what it is ! Hook up an ammeter (your recommendation) and accurately measure the I2R losses in the windings ? Great, we now accurately know a figure that is completely meaningless to us. What are these losses supposed to be at full rated power ? What proportion of those do we have at the moment ? In the absence of a way of measuring the present value of the rated figure, or a comparison figure for the power losses we *can* measure, why *NOT* use the winding temperature as a guide to health ? > I haven't seen a post in this entire thread (besides mine) that indicates > that any of you understand electrical machinery. Such modesty ! When I first saw that I was convinced it was a posting from old redneck@dixie.com 8-) -- Andy Dingley Codesmiths of Newcastle dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk What did Jeffrey Dahmer say to Lorena Bobbit? "If you're not going to eat that, do you mind if I have it?" From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Wed Feb 9 09:50:24 EST 1994 Article: 3655 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: OLD ENGINES References: <2ip8af$l1r@news.service.uci.edu> <1994Feb4.165410.16726@dsea.com> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 22 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 02:09:25 +0000 Message-ID: <760673365snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk > : You two would probably die if you went to the working "Transportation > : Museme" on the central coast in Maine. Just so that the Brits don't feel left out, here's a plug for a little known museum in the North. 8-) The Hunday tractor museum is at Hunday, just off the A69 Newcastle-Carlisle road. It's a farm museum, with a whole range of tractors, farm implements, stationary engines, miniature railway etc. The twin highlights of the place are the last (?) surviving Foster Gyro-Tillers, one large one and one *sodding* *enormous* one ! These things are fully-tracked tractors, with built in vertical-axis rotovators at the back. The bigger one was made for a sugar plantation in the 1920s and is the size of a railway engine. A most impressive bit of the engineering of the day, all polished brasswork and handwheels. If you're a pilot, the farm also has a grass strip. Ring up before landing, I think it's in Pooleys. -- Andy Dingley Codesmiths of Newcastle dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Wed Feb 9 09:50:25 EST 1994 Article: 3656 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: payce@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Panther) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: BA-Tread, The story?? Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 13:58:24 +0000 Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, The University of Nottingham Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article , ujonsson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ulf Jonsson) wrote: > I found a table over BA-Threads in a handbook. To me the system looks like > some funny logarithmic scaled system based on BA-0 wich have metric > dimensions. (I think BA-0 have 6mm dia and 1mm pitch). > What is the story behind this strange system and why is it used by Stuart? > > Are they used at all today (exept in Stuarts steam engines)? The BA system is based on a Swiss system of instrument maker's threads and was adopted for small instrument work after an extended study by the British Association around the turn of the century. It is so well liked in the UK that it has resisted displacement by metric threads and is likely to remain in force for many years. I would be surpised if it were not widely known in the US also. Commercial screwing tackle, nuts, bolts, etc, are available here from commercial outlets at reasonable prices. The system is indeed based on a geometric series for all its major dimensions, with a scaledown of, I think, 0.9 per unit, so 1BA is 0.9mm pitch, 2BA is 0.81 mm pitch, etc. It is specified down to 16BA (try getting that in metric!) but only the even numbers are commonly used, which has spoilt the flexibility of the system somewhat. I appreciate some of this is a bit vague - its from memory - and I could post more details if anyone is interested, but to be honest, I thought you would all know about it. Mail me if you're interested (or even to tell me that no-one in the U.S. knows about it!) Clive W. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 Wed Feb 9 09:50:26 EST 1994 Article: 3657 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bq340 From: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Date: 8 Feb 1994 04:58:02 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 19 Message-ID: <2j764q$a0o@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <760662277snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) NNTP-Posting-Host: piglet.ins.cwru.edu In a previous article, dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) says: >In article > gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov "gary preckshot" writes: I didn't mean to start a war or anything, I just want to know for sure how to check the load ACCURATELY, so what is the answer??? My modem crashed for a few day, but, now I am back on-line. all this B.S. is getting boring. One guy says yes, one says no, But, it is very interesting.... What about a prony brake? Load to 1 hp, and then check what? -- "Onward through the fog" - Power-Hitter bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu mburlage@heartland.bradley.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Wed Feb 9 09:50:26 EST 1994 Article: 3658 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Motor Question Message-ID: Date: Tue, 08 Feb 94 08:11:53 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: Lines: 162 gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes: >[Bunch of electrically ignorant crap deleted] >Except for the following really ignorant crap: too bad, preckshot, that you didn't let it lay while you were ahead. >> I know from >> years of experience that the winding temperature rises approximately >> proportional to load. [and much more of the same] >From 22 years of education, including a Ph.D. EE, and years of experience >at Grand Coulee Dam as a field engineer instrumenting motors and generators >of various sizes until I could do it in my sleep, John, you're full of it. John's 1st law of debating - the first fellow to quote credentials as an argument has just lost. Congrats. BTW, I have you beaten in experience, education in the field, power plant worked and projects managed but that's irrelevant to this discussion. >The main source of motor heat is winding current, followed by either eddy >current losses or hysteresis losses. And of course, rotor losses, particularly the el-cheapo chinese wundermotors. Measure it sometime. I have, as part of using an electric motor excited with DC as an eddy current dynamometer brake. >> I repeat, the best way of determining full load is with a wattmeter. >> The second best way is to measure winding temperature. A distant third >> and worst way is to look at the amps. >> >Well, repeating it doesn't make it so. It just shows determined ignorance, >although the above sentence is technically correct but you don't know it. Wow. I'm correct but I'm ignorant and don't realize it. What an argument. What logic. >Full load is usually taken as motor shaft horsepower output, which is >related to heating only by loss mechanisms, not shaft output. A wattmeter >shows you mechanical output plus all losses, but in almost any motor of >normal efficiency, shaft horsepower dominates. A small calculation should >convince all but the most determined fool: motor efficiency is normally >above 90% for most induction motors. I suppose the fools at GE must be pretty determined too. A quick waltz through their Five Star Motor Catalog (the first one my hands landed on) shows that they rate their premium, super-high efficiency motors ($uper$aver trademark) at 85 to 88 percent efficient. Their high efficiency (Energy$aver trademark) motors are rated at 82 to 85% efficient. Their regular line (no trademarked name) is rated as "less than 82%". These motors are Type KCR, Type KCP and KC respectively, single phase motors in the range of 1/4 to 10 horsepower. The table in the front of the catalog doesn't indicate a $uper$aver motor efficiency of 90% until 20 hp in their 3 phase line. >Consequently, at full load you're >seeing at most a 10% variation in wattmeter reading due to heating, >friction, and windage. Given a nominal 1% accuracy for an analog >wattmeter, you couldn't determine losses to better than 10%. And about >half the losses are not functions of current or shaft load, they are >essential constant. Get smart, dude. >Now to blow away a bunch of other misinformation: >1) it's claimed that you ought to measure winding temperature rather than >believing the nameplate because somehow manufacturers just fake up the >motor ratings - >Don't be ridiculous! How do you think manufacturers determined motor >heating characteristics in the first place? They instrument the windings >on test examples, including either RTDs or thermocouples. The ratings on >the nameplate reflect their findings and are to NEMA standards. You think >you're good enough to do better? I don't. I haven't seen a post in this >entire thread (besides mine) that indicates that any of you understand >electrical machinery. How you expect to do better than a pro can only be a >triumph of wishful thinking over reason. It's real easy, Preckshot. First off, what you read off the nameplates on the motors at Grand Coulee during your visitor's tour have little to do with the small single phase motors that are the subject of this thread. The person trying to maximize the load on a particular motor is trying to maximize the output of THAT motor and not the typical motor of that design, which is what the name plate represents. Even the nameplate can be suspect and/or confusing. Consider the following from the same catalog for 1 hp, 240 volt motors: Type FLA Service Factor --------------------------------------- KCR 4.2 1.2 KCP 8.0 1.0 KC 7.1 1.0 KC compressor 7.0 1.0 (air compressor service KC NEMA SF 6.2 1.25 I see FLA varying almost 2:1. I see a difference in varieties of the same basic design, the KC, varying by almost 15%. I know from working in a friend's motor rewinding shop that the GE KC motors of a given HP are the same on the inside and use the same number of turns on each pole. They vary only in the nameplate rating. This is kinda obvious when you compare FLA and service factor. The main factor in shortening the life of a motor is the winding temperature, which should be obvious. Indeed, GE defines the term "temperature rise" as "the amount by which a motor, operating at its rated output, is hotter than its surrounding temperature." In other words, the nameplate temperature rise is the limiting factor if long life is desired. If I want to make sure the motor is running at its rated output, I will instrument it with a wattmeter and compute the FLW (if not specified) from the motor's rated PF and VA. If I want to push the motor beyond its nameplate rating, as the original questioner wanted to do, I'd measure watts if I had the instrumentation but more importantly, I'd measure the winding temperature. The measured amps is a very insensitive indication of load as I demonstrated in my previous post. >2) It was claimed that foreign motors dissipated more heat because of wider >air gaps, and a variety of other arcana - >An inaccurate air gap causes problems, but because of decreased flux >linkage between the armature and the rotor. This causes increased >parasitic inductance which increases the motor's vars, but doesn't directly >increase losses. Gee you just contradicted yourself. On one hand you claim that heating is directly proportional to amps (in your previous post) and now you claim that increased VARs (which at a constant voltage means more amps) don't directly relate to increased losses and heat. One way or the other, dude. Can't have it both ways. BTW, the previous poster said nothing about non-uniform gap in foreign motors, he noted the much larger gap and he was absolutely right. My el-cheapo drill press with the motor that stinks of hot insulation at rated load and which will smoke on stall before I can hit the switch has almost a quarter inch of gap visible from through the end bell. These things have less of eveything - copper, iron, rotor, bearings, cooling. While I'm on the subject of motor temperature, I'll relate a nifty little truism taught to me by the resident Westinghouse motor expert at the Sequoyah NP, an old fellow who knew all there was to know about motors without the impediment of a PhD. If you want to approximate the shell temperature of a heavily loaded motor, slap your hand firmly against the motor shell and leave it until you can't stand the heat anymore. As your hand makes contact, say the following at about 2 words a second (normal conversation): "Damn, this son of a bitch is really, really hot." For every word you get said, subtract a degree from 80 degrees C. This will get you amazingly close, assuming your pain threshold isn't too high :-) This also assumes the motor doesn't have 40 years' worth of paint or grunge on it. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com Performance Engineering Magazine. Email to me published at my sole discretion "Dr. Kevorkian, please report to the Oval Office." From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Wed Feb 9 09:50:27 EST 1994 Article: 3659 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Date: 8 Feb 1994 14:30:02 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 41 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2j87la$kq3@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk Gary, Was it really necessary to be rude and abusive to all and sundry on this group? On the whole this is a friendly and constructive place to have a conversation, without scoring points off one another. My original comments were made from practical experience, e.g. when you overload an induction motor you may well get:- motor slowing or stalling, possibly leading to overheating fuses blowing Whether these result from eddy currents, losses, etc. are irrelevant to the practical motor user. Rather than spouting your undoubtedly vast experience and writing snotty comments about others, why not *politely* tell others they're wrong, then offer practical advice on how an amateur with limited measuring equipment can safely judge whether a moter is being overloaded. If you can't do this, then sit on your typing fingers and let others get on with their lives. -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Wed Feb 9 09:50:28 EST 1994 Article: 3660 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Date: 8 Feb 1994 14:47:16 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2j88lk$n1g@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: <2j87la$kq3@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk In article <2j87la$kq3@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk>, djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) writes: |> |> Rather than spouting your undoubtedly vast experience and writing |> snotty |> comments about others, why not *politely* tell others they're wrong, |> then |> offer practical advice on how an amateur with limited measuring |> equipment |> can safely judge whether a moter is being overloaded. |> ...and to save others the trouble, I *do* know how to spell "motor". ;-) -- Divad Jerkins, the well-known typing error * I'd rather be steaming... * From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!plasma.ps.uci.edu!dparsons Wed Feb 9 09:50:28 EST 1994 Article: 3661 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!plasma.ps.uci.edu!dparsons From: dparsons@plasma.ps.uci.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Old Engines and Museums Date: 8 Feb 1994 14:54:12 GMT Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 20 Message-ID: <2j892k$bgg@news.service.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plasma.ps.uci.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] So much talk about old engines, a subject near and dear to me. I have posted on the net about this museum before but got no response. Now with all this engine talk I thought I would post again. There is a Museum in Vista California, someone mentioned it. It is the California Early Day Gas Engine and Tractor Museum. It has a Steam engine row, a Gasoline engine row, Tractors by the score, a blacksmith shop (that's a whole 'nother story) farm implements and about 30 acres of farmland in crop. Twice a year for two consecutive weekends, the Museum puts on a show. It's great! The engines are started, the tractors are put to work, a lumber mill is set to a tractor as well as a grain mill. There are two Steam Traction engines that race around the place. I am a member there and will be going there this weekend to work on The Western 200 I have mentioned. I will get a brochure and post the dates of the show next week. I will also E-mail anyone interested a bitmap of the brochure. There, that's my plug for the museum. Dave Parsons From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.byu.edu!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com!paul Wed Feb 9 09:50:29 EST 1994 Article: 3662 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.byu.edu!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com!paul From: paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Paul Jones) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Buying a Mill - advice needed Date: 8 Feb 1994 18:18:58 GMT Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Urbana Design Center Lines: 29 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2j8l2i$pvd@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.191.64.4 I am currently working at buying a floor standing knee mill from Enco (model 100-5201) which is the same type as Grizzly A1SA(?) and is also sold by Toolcrib of the North. While Grizzly's price is the best, Enco will match it. This mill has almost all of the desired features mentioned in the HSM series on buying a mill, especially the knee, daylight, fine-feed, adjustable gibs, and central lubrication. I have personally examined the mill in their showroom and it seems to be a very well-made mill, although I didn't indicate any of the alignments. My problem is that the only place I have to put the mill is in the basement, which means that it will have to be disassembled which, understandably, Enco says will void the warranty. Does anyone have any experience of this kind with this particular mill or with disassembling/reassembling any mill? I am not as much worried about the warranty as I am messing up the front/back alignment between the head and the table (the head does tilt right/left by design and so can be trammed in that direction) Opinions/Experience please. Thanks, Paul Jones ------ Paul Jones, Motorola MCG paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com 1101 E. University Ave. Voice: (217) 384-8529 Urbana, IL 61801, USA FAX: (217) 384-8550 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Wed Feb 9 09:50:32 EST 1994 Article: 3663 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 8 Feb 1994 18:16:46 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 90 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article , jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) wrote: > [much misunderstanding of motor theory, or rather lack of any knowledge of electrical machines theory] In answer to the lot of you: your advice to the original poster was both dangerous to his motor and singularly irrelevant. John, especially, is almost completely ignorant of the induction motor equivalent circuit, otherwise he'd understand why FLA and load varied so differently, and he'd also understand that motor load and motor losses are two different things - one is only indirectly related to the other. To take the thermocouple suggestion first - assuming that Mike took your advice and put a thermocouple in the windings, the first thing he'd (possibly) unforturnately discover is that due to 60 Hz magnetic fields in the motor, the thermocouple vibrates, enough to wear insulatation on winding turns. There's a very good possibility he'd end up damaging the motor, even if he didn't remove the endbells and just insert the TC through the vents (assuming it wasn't a TEFC motor). Secondly, since he doesn't know the motor cooling characteristics and isn't experienced at this endeavor, whatever he measured would be about as useful as running the motor until he smelt burning insulation. None of the suggestions were anywhere near practical for somebody who isn't experienced at motor instrumentation and has some knowlege of the cooling characteristics of the particular frame style he has. The wattmeter suggestion, besides being completely ignorant of motor characteristics, also flies in the face of 100 years of experience in the electrical industry - why do you think motor controllers have time-overcurrent heaters to match motor characteristics? So John was suggesting that a wattmeter be used, a piece of equipment almost nobody but those intimately involved with power systems have, and it's completely unnecessary. Motor losses have two parts - one that's directly related to motor current (excluding magnetizing current, which is virtually constant at constant voltage) and one that's completely independent of current. Neither has any dependency on shaft load except as shaft load causes increased current. So any of you non-participants out there can test this easily by noting that even if you run your favorite induction motor no-load, it gets warm. To interpret the numbers John is so fond of, at no-load, his motor drew 20 watts, which was all copper losses, iron losses, and friction and windage. No matter what shaft load was applied, he still has at least 20 watts of losses, and about half of these heat the motor, while the other half is expended in moving air. So he loads the motor with his rag, and the wattage increased to 90 watts - how much is additional loss? Who knows, John doesn't. He can't separate the shaft load from the additional copper losses due to increased current. His wattmeter reading is completely irrelevant unless he has a dyno. And then what he's doing is subtracting two big numbers to get a small one, which is the usual recipe for inaccuracy. So, what to do? The most direct thing is to use the nameplate current rating, which is directly related to motor heating. That's been selected by the manufacturer so that the motor, in the highest ambient, will not exceed the insulation damage temperature *at any point in the winding*. A small point ignored by many posters. As I said, you think you're better than the designers? I don't. Go ahead, tell me you know where to put the temperature probe. So what can our compressor guy do? Here's a way: 1) buy a candy thermometer that measures in the range 90 - 212 F. 2) make an aluminum block that fits the motor radius and has a hole for the thermometer. 3) stick the thermometer in the block to the motor with a large blob of putty so the aluminum temperature will rise with the motor case. Stick this to the motor case as close as you can get to one of the screws that go through to the stator. 4) start the compressor and run a steady stream of air out a valve until you either get the duty cycle rated or the CFM rated. You can measure CFM by inverting a waste basket in a child's wading pool so it's full of water and squirting air under and counting seconds until the water is displaced. 5) once you're running at rated CFM or duty cycle, let it go until things stabilize and you get a good temperature base line. Measure the motor current at turn-on and turn-off. You now have a baseline to make changes from. 6) measure the ambient temperature. Motors are usually rated for 40 C ambient. You can probably safely increase case temperature by the difference between your ambient and 40 C. I'd do it in 10% load increments (choose a pully that pumps 10% more air). I'd also keep an eye on motor current. Once you start exceeding rated current, you're on your own, as far as the manufacturer is concerned. You also may need to change your overload heaters, if your compressor has a mag starter. You don't need a wattmeter or elaborate thermocouples, nor do you need John's many years of misunderstood experience. Testing compressors is pretty simple and maybe it does take a Ph.D. to understand that. One that's actually done this shit before. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!amdahl!juts.ccc.amdahl.com!rmm20 Wed Feb 9 09:50:33 EST 1994 Article: 3664 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!amdahl!juts.ccc.amdahl.com!rmm20 From: rmm20@ccc.amdahl.com (Robert Mitchell) Subject: Re: Motor Question Message-ID: <1994Feb8.171108.16202@ccc.amdahl.com> Reply-To: rmm20@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Robert Mitchell) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA References: Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 17:11:08 GMT Lines: 29 In article gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes: >In article , jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) wrote: >> >> gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) says: >> > >[Bunch of electrically ignorant crap deleted] > >Except for the following really ignorant crap: > >> I know from >> years of experience that the winding temperature rises approximately >> proportional to load. [and much more of the same] > >From 22 years of education, including a Ph.D. EE, and years of experience >at Grand Coulee Dam as a field engineer instrumenting motors and generators >of various sizes until I could do it in my sleep, John, you're full of it. While it is fun to watch opinionated, self-proclaimed experts slug it out, please remember that most of us reading this conference are amateurs who enjoy working with metal. Too much vitriol certainly discourages postings by lesser mortals. - Robert Mitchell -- UUCP: robert@mithril.cupertino.ca.us DDD: 408-746-8491 Fax: 408-725-8638 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 205, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj Wed Feb 9 09:50:33 EST 1994 Article: 3665 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!tardis!tymix.Tymnet.COM!bert!kopfj From: kopfj@Tymnet.COM (John Kopf, X6305) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Pewter Casting Message-ID: <2j67o5$p9p@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: 7 Feb 94 20:19:17 GMT References: Reply-To: kopfj@Tymnet.COM Organization: British Telecom, San Jose Development Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: bert.tymnet.com In article I13@mcm.hp.com, daveg@hpmcdg.mcm.hp.com (Dave Gembala) writes: > I haven't been reading this group regularly, so forgive me if this is a > common question. > > stuff deleted> > > Does anyone have experience with this sort of set up? The info I have > doesn't describe the equipment very well. I am wondering if this is > only good for pewter or lead, or do you think that it can handle higher > temp. metals (ie. silver or brass). > The rubber will handle pewter, solder, woods metal, and probably pure lead and tin. It is unlikely that it can handle the temperatures required for brass & copper (in blacksmit terms, these melt at a "white" heat). Rule of thumb: if the molten metal GLOWS, it's probably too hot for silicone rubber. JK From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!milo.mcs.anl.gov!achilles.ctd.anl.gov!shaffer Wed Feb 9 09:50:34 EST 1994 Article: 3666 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!milo.mcs.anl.gov!achilles.ctd.anl.gov!shaffer From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer) Subject: Re: Afghan Rifles Message-ID: Sender: usenet@mcs.anl.gov Reply-To: mashaffer@anl.gov Organization: Argonne National Laboratory References: <2iubnu$k07@tymix.Tymnet.COM> Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 17:54:46 GMT Lines: 5 >& There is a video put out by Colonial Williamsburg that slows how a rifle is Does anyone have an address? mike From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!wbrown Wed Feb 9 09:50:35 EST 1994 Article: 3667 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!wbrown From: wbrown@csg.lbl.gov (Bill Brown) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Buying a Mill - advice needed Date: 8 Feb 1994 20:46:00 GMT Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California Lines: 44 Distribution: world Message-ID: <37204@dog.ee.lbl.gov> References: <2j8l2i$pvd@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.243.70.11 In article <2j8l2i$pvd@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Paul Jones) writes: > ... >My problem is that the only place I have to put the mill is in the basement, >which means that it will have to be disassembled which, understandably, >Enco says will void the warranty. > >Does anyone have any experience of this kind with this particular mill >or with disassembling/reassembling any mill? > >I am not as much worried about the warranty as I am messing up the >front/back alignment between the head and the table (the head does tilt >right/left by design and so can be trammed in that direction) > >Opinions/Experience please. > ... Well, as it happens, I bought a used mill a couple of weeks ago, and partially disassembled it to move it. It wasn't too hard - we had the "exploded drawings" - from the standpoint of figuring out how to do it. Also, I had the help of a friend who obviously had taken mills apart before. From a physical standpoint - well even the individual chunks are _heavy_. If I had it to do over again, I'd rent a truck with a lift-gate and try to move it in one piece. Maybe use a pallet-jack, or pipe rollers. Depending on how you take it apart, about the only thing to worry about is getting the spindle at right-angles to the table. This can be done by sweeping the table with a dial indicator; I didn't touch that part of it. All in all, I wouldn't want to do it again, but ya gotta do whatchya gotta do. It's doable, but not a lot of fun. And it should go back together without any major problems. One thing that would have been very handy was and engine hoist or "cherry-picker" as they are sometimes called. Good luck, and happy swarf-making! Disclaimer: These opinions are my own and have | nothing to do with the official policy or the | -bill management of L.B.L, who probably couldn't | wlbrown@lbl.gov care less about employees who play with trains. | From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jcr57394 Wed Feb 9 09:50:35 EST 1994 Article: 3668 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jcr57394 From: jcr57394@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Joshua C. Ruedin) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Thanks for the help! Date: 8 Feb 1994 21:03:39 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 5 Message-ID: <2j8unb$b3f@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Summary: Thanks for the help! thanks for the help with finding damascus steel suppliers!! josh ruedin jcr57394@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys.dt.navy.mil!not-for-mail Wed Feb 9 09:50:36 EST 1994 Article: 3669 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys.dt.navy.mil!not-for-mail From: iorio@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Vincent Iorio) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Date: 8 Feb 1994 17:11:18 -0500 Organization: Little to None. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <2j92m6INN3tf@oasys.dt.navy.mil> References: <760662277snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: iorio@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Vincent Iorio) NNTP-Posting-Host: oasys.dt.navy.mil I would like to add two points to this civil discussion of motors. 1. Motor experts never agree 100% about motors and ratings. I'm still waiting for two people to give me the same answer to the question - "What does servce factor mean?" 2. I measureing winding temperature, a TC (thermalcouple) or RTD (RTD), will give only the temperature at the point it is placed. Another method of measure winding temperature is measureing the change in resistance between a cold motor and hot motor. This method will give the average temperature. It is not simple measurement to make. The change in resistance is small, and it has to be made as soon as the motor is stopped. Vince Disclaimer - I did not write this post, it's not my fault. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!nic.csu.net!clstac!aho Wed Feb 9 09:50:36 EST 1994 Article: 3670 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!nic.csu.net!clstac!aho Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Help!! Q: Cold Welding under Ambient Cond. Message-ID: <1994Feb8.121250.1@clstac> From: aho@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu Date: 8 Feb 94 12:12:50 PST Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona Nntp-Posting-Host: vmsb.is.csupomona.edu Lines: 8 Does anyone know any information on a relatively new process of cold-welding called, Cold Welding under Ambient Conditions? I need some more information on this topic for a paper due the 22nd of Feburary. Thanks!!! Allen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Wed Feb 9 09:50:37 EST 1994 Article: 3671 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!news.bu.edu!att-in!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: Buying a Mill - advice needed Organization: AT&T Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 21:32:09 GMT Message-ID: References: <2j8l2i$pvd@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com> Lines: 40 >From article <2j8l2i$pvd@courier.urbana.mcd.mot.com>, by paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Paul Jones): > I am currently working at buying a floor standing knee mill from Enco > ... > My problem is that the only place I have to put the mill is in the basement, > which means that it will have to be disassembled which, understandably, > Enco says will void the warranty. > > Does anyone have any experience of this kind with this particular mill > or with disassembling/reassembling any mill? > > I am not as much worried about the warranty as I am messing up the > front/back alignment between the head and the table (the head does tilt > right/left by design and so can be trammed in that direction) I disassembled a Series 1 Bridgeport to get it down a set of wooden steps into my basement. I can't see anything about the disassembly process which should change the basic accuracy of the machine. Both the side-side and the fore-aft head tilts (I am assuming the mill you want to buy is an oriental copy of the V-ram Bridgeport) need alignment with a dial indicator anytime they are adjusted anyway, if you want to do accurate work. Disassembling and reassembling doesn't seem to change anything beyond what a head tilt would change. Removing the bed, saddle and knee involve removing the adjustable gibbs. Incorrect adjustment on assembly could lead to slop (if loose), or premature wear (if too tight). This may be where Enco sees the warranty problem. Just for curiosity, what do they warrant it against? (do they warrant a level of accuracy, or a service life? I would be surprised.) If the issue from Enco's perspective is gibb adjustment, I wonder if you could pay Enco to have someone do the adjustment. This would probably not be cheap, but might allow you to retain the warranty, if the warranty is worth something. By the way, how does Enco deal with the situation when a professional rigger does a partial disassembly to install one of their mills? I would expect that removing the bed to fit through a doorway would be relatively common, even in an industrial environment. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!ogicse!news.tek.com!tekig7!tcsegp1!garyp Wed Feb 9 09:50:37 EST 1994 Article: 3672 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!ogicse!news.tek.com!tekig7!tcsegp1!garyp From: garyp@tcsegp1.PEN.TEK.COM (Gary R Pimm) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Message-ID: <13630@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> Date: 8 Feb 94 23:14:02 GMT Article-I.D.: tekig7.13630 References: <2ir96m$oct@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <11!4!vq@dixie.com> Sender: news@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM Reply-To: garyp@tekig5.pen.tek.com Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR. Lines: 25 In article <11!4!vq@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes: > >Nope, sorry. The amps approach FLA quite a bit before the motor is >fully loaded. What changes near FL is power factor. The only way to >tell without guessing is to put a wattmeter inline and measure the >power consumption. Ain't no other way. Lacking a wattmeter, >measuring the winding temperature is the next best bet. > >John John, What is the phase of the current vs voltage at power factor 1. Or better yet what is the phase angle range of a induction motor as it goes from no load to full load. If I understand correctly (slim cance!), a motor that is lightly loaded has a fairly large phase angle between the voltage and current. 90 degrees? This angle decreases as the load icreases. I have a Amprobe with a broken meter movement in it. I don't think it would take much to modify it so that I could use it as an oscilloscope current probe. Doing this I could watch the phase angle change under load. Knowing what the angle at power factor 1 I then would know when the motor reached "full load". Is this correct or am I missing something. Gary Pimm From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!anaxagoras.ils.nwu.edu!b.ils.nwu.edu!brand Wed Feb 9 09:50:38 EST 1994 Article: 3673 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!anaxagoras.ils.nwu.edu!b.ils.nwu.edu!brand From: brand@b.ils.nwu.edu (Brand ) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: ask advice on bending, soldering, & surfacing brass Date: 8 Feb 1994 23:44:07 GMT Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences Lines: 41 Message-ID: <2j9847$eu3@anaxagoras.ils.nwu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: b.ils.nwu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9] I'd like some advice on my tools & materials. I make sculptures using brass rod and plate. The plates are shaped and mounted on stalks. The rods are generally 3/32" or 1/3" diameter; the plate is 0.032" thick. Both are supplied by an metal wholesaler called "K+S." I cut the plates with aviation snips, bend the rods extensively with a home-made tool, and attach pieces with silver-bearing lead-free solder, using a pocket-sized butane torch. My questions: 1) I find the brass a little too soft; jeweler's pliers dent it, long rods sag when weighted, etc. And a little too prone to fatigue; the 1/8" diameter becomes weak after bending and will occasionally snap under loads. Can someone recommend a supplier of harder, more durable brass? 2) My torch runs a little too hot; often it will "copperize" the surface of the brass before solder melts (>450F). Can I avoid this by changing the amount of air mixed in with the butane? Or am I better off with a propane torch and a copper-tip soldering attachment? Also, where (preferably in Chicago) can I get flux for silver-solder? 3) Currently I patinate the brass with "Verde-It" (a chloride acid) and a blacking acid (selenium-based). Can anyone recommend other surface treatments? I also shine with anti-oxidants "Nevr-Dull" and "Peek". How long will these last? Can I do better? (I got tired of lacquering wires...) 4) I'd like to make some larger pieces, which means finding rods with a better strength-to-weight ratio. I'm thinking of moving to tubes, but those are difficult to bend in 1/3" radii. I'd appreciate recommendations of alloys that can be bent, are stiff, can be soldered, and can be worked to interesting surfaces. thanks much, & please reply be email, matt brand From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Wed Feb 9 09:50:38 EST 1994 Article: 3674 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking From: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!dis.demon.co.uk!codesmth.demon.co.uk!dingbat Subject: Re: Motor Question References: <1994Feb8.171108.16202@ccc.amdahl.com> Organization: Codesmiths, UK Reply-To: dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 9 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 21:11:19 +0000 Message-ID: <760741879snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <1994Feb8.171108.16202@ccc.amdahl.com> rmm20@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com "Robert Mitchell" writes: > Too much vitriol certainly discourages postings by lesser mortals. But it's good for pickling copperwork after brazing 8-) -- Andy Dingley Codesmiths of Newcastle dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user Wed Feb 9 09:50:39 EST 1994 Article: 3675 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov!user From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: 9 Feb 1994 01:04:22 GMT Organization: LLNL Lines: 63 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <760662277snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk> <2j92m6INN3tf@oasys.dt.navy.mil> NNTP-Posting-Host: b543e1-14010-244.llnl.gov In article <2j92m6INN3tf@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, iorio@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Vincent Iorio) wrote: > > I would like to add two points to this civil discussion of motors. > > 1. Motor experts never agree 100% about motors and ratings. I'm still > waiting for two people to give me the same answer to the question - > "What does servce factor mean?" service factor: per unit extra heat dissipation for starting and reversing service. When starting, in a multiwinding motor, the starting windings add considerable heat to stator and also to the rotor due to extra bar current. In hard starting service, this has to be accounted for. Also, if the motor is plugged, there may be service factor allowance for this. duty: a rating for the duty cycle expected of the motor, of which there are four usual ratings. 1. continous duty - the motor will support full load continously without damaging winding insulation 2. intermittant duty - the motor will support full load for some percentage of the time, number of starts per hour and duty cycle must be given for a complete rating. 3. compressor duty - a motor rated for intermittant duty but with a load profile rather than full load. The load profile usually matches tank pumpup, and the number of pumpups per hour are sufficient to support rated CFM. 4. special - almost any load profile and duty cycle, dependent upon the application. > > 2. I measureing winding temperature, a TC (thermalcouple) or RTD (RTD), > will give only the temperature at the point it is placed. True. A significant point if you propose to measure your favorite motor. > Another > method of measure winding temperature is measureing the change in > resistance between a cold motor and hot motor. This method will give > the average temperature. For the location you choose to measure. > It is not simple measurement to make. The > change in resistance is small, and it has to be made as soon as the > motor is stopped. > or when the motor has achieved steady-state and is running. Basically, the difficulty with measuring winding temperature with TCs is that 1) you could damage the winding 2) you don't know if you've got the hottest spot 3) if you measure air in the vent, the measurement may be variable depending upon where you place the TC. It doesn't tell you much either, because you've got no calibration about what your measurements mean. Measuring case temperature close to where the stator is bolted to the case is more practical for a number of reasons 1) you don't tangle with energized windings 2) if you run the motor over it's rated duty cycle, you get a good baseline of how the designer intended the motor-compressor system to work 3) the case acts as a low-pass filter and incidentally removes your temperature device from high EMI areas. See the duty cycle description above - if you've got a compressor duty motor, there's no way short of contacting the designer, to get the profile to which the motor was rated. The closest you can come is running the machine as rated. For this you want slow, consistent measurements. The machine should settle down to an on-off duty cycle that results in the motor attaining a rated duty cycle working temperature within its temperature rating. If it doesn't, you bought the wrong compressor. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!isuvax.iastate.edu!TWF99 Wed Feb 9 09:50:40 EST 1994 Article: 3676 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!isuvax.iastate.edu!TWF99 From: twf99@isuvax.iastate.edu Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Motor Question Date: 9 Feb 1994 00:46:23 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa Lines: 8 Message-ID: <2j9bov$o4u@news.iastate.edu> References: <760662277snz@codesmth.demon.co.uk>,<2j92m6INN3tf@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Reply-To: twf99@isuvax.iastate.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: isuvax.iastate.edu I wish all you "sparks" or electrical engineering types would stop your fucking flame wars on rec. crafts metalworking. You are living up to your name as dinky engineers, that what electrical engineers are call in Japan. Peace brothers. Dave Smucker From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!cubic.com!wmata.wd.Cubic.COM!MARTIN Wed Feb 9 09:50:40 EST 1994 Article: 3677 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!cubic.com!wmata.wd.Cubic.COM!MARTIN From: MARTIN@cubic.com (Bill Martin) Subject: Re: How do I restore rusted steel wheels? Nntp-Posting-Host: wmata.wd.cubic.com References: <1994Feb6.222414.9334@ccc.amdahl.com> Sender: news@cubic.com (News) Organization: CARCG Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 17:55:24 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 37 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4614 rec.crafts.metalworking:3677 In article <1994Feb6.222414.9334@ccc.amdahl.com> tky00@eng.amdahl.com (Tim Yoshihara) writes: >From: tky00@eng.amdahl.com (Tim Yoshihara) >Subject: How do I restore rusted steel wheels? >Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 22:24:14 GMT >I have a 1971 Honda 600 sedan that I am restoring. > >The stock steel wheels (10" diameter) are extremely rusted in the >tire bead seating area. The rest of the wheel looks good. The only >area that has major rust is the bead area. I have tried to find >anyone that can put new rims on the old centers, but they don't >have any 10" rims. Also, I am taking cost into account. It may >be cheaper (and funcional) to go to a non-stock option. My first >thought is 13" wheels with low-profile tires. But, then I have >to do body work to clear the wider tires. > >Do any of you netters have any ideas as to how I should go about >cleaning these up and making them usable again? I am also concerned >about safety. The welds and centers look ok. But, the rust/pitting >looks bad. > >Thanks, Tim Yoshihara Look in Hemmings Motor News, see if there is a "READY STRIP" shop in your area, and avoid sandblasting if at all possible. If your rust pits are too deep, the sandblast will punch a hole thru the bead area. The "READY STRIP" process is an alkaline chemical dip, which will not remove any non-rusted metal. I had this done on a very rusty Lotus seat frame, and was very happy with the results. If the pitting visible after cleaning the metal is not TOO deep, you can probably get by with powder coating, the pits will fill in with powder, and the heat curing will tend to flow the powder smoothly over the bead seat. If the pitting is "really the pitts", consider filling them in by gas welding/brazing, then turn the surface on a lathe before painting. Any way you go, its a lot of work, but if you want "original" wheels, thats the way it goes. Bill From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!udel!news.sprintlink.net!crash!donb Wed Feb 9 09:50:41 EST 1994 Article: 3678 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!udel!news.sprintlink.net!crash!donb From: donb@crash.cts.com (Donald Bowen) Subject: Re: Old Engines and Museums Organization: CTS Network Services (CTSNET/crash), San Diego, CA Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 00:11:56 GMT Message-ID: References: <2j892k$bgg@news.service.uci.edu> Sender: news@crash.cts.com (news subsystem) Nntp-Posting-Host: crash.cts.com Lines: 32 In <2j892k$bgg@news.service.uci.edu> dparsons@plasma.ps.uci.edu () writes: >So much talk about old engines, a subject near and dear to me. I have posted on >the net about this museum before but got no response. Now with all this engine >talk I thought I would post again. >There is a Museum in Vista California, someone mentioned it. It is the >California Early Day Gas Engine and Tractor Museum. It has a Steam engine >row, a Gasoline engine row, Tractors by the score, a blacksmith shop (that's >a whole 'nother story) farm implements and about 30 acres of farmland in crop. >Twice a year for two consecutive weekends, the Museum puts on a show. It's >great! The engines are started, the tractors are put to work, a lumber mill >is set to a tractor as well as a grain mill. There are two Steam Traction >engines that race around the place. >I am a member there and will be going there this weekend to work on The Western >200 I have mentioned. I will get a brochure and post the dates of the show >next week. I will also E-mail anyone interested a bitmap of the brochure. >There, that's my plug for the museum. >Dave Parsons I will second all that. I have a 1936 Farmall 12 on display there which I drive in the show parades. They have a walking tour of the place (it is open year round) that I wrote several years ago and now I understand that they have docents to show you around. Now that I have moved closer I hope to spend a little more time there. The shows are the last 2 weekends of June and October. It is the best family entertainment value in southern California. DonB From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eff!news.kei.com!world!augment Wed Feb 9 09:50:41 EST 1994 Article: 3679 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!hermes.chpc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eff!news.kei.com!world!augment From: augment@world.std.com (Michael Bergman) Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Message-ID: Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA References: <1994Feb1.191314.28832@sequent.com> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 03:09:52 GMT Lines: 16 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:32790 rec.crafts.metalworking:3679 Old singers aren't worth much, in general. There are particular models that might we worth something, and *certainly* the value is a function of location -- I've heard of people buyying them in New England for $45 and taking them to sell in Arizona or some such for a couple hundred. But the $800 machine was probably either a very rare treadle machine of truly historic significance, or much more likely, a Singer Featherweight -- an electric, portable, machine, that has an extremely high resale value. Singer still makes and sells (well, has made in china, and sells) treadle and handcrank machines, but they are not serious sewing machines, nothing like the quality of the old ones. -- --Mike Bergman Voice: (617) 271-0230 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!edgarm Wed Feb 9 09:50:42 EST 1994 Article: 3680 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!edgarm From: edgarm@camaro.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Etching Silver Date: 9 Feb 1994 04:36:27 GMT Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Lines: 17 Sender: edgarm@rpi.edu Message-ID: <2j9p8b$kme@usenet.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: camaro.its.rpi.edu Greetings, I am trying to make my girlfriend something nice for Valentine's Day. I had this bright idea to etch her monogram (actually her cypher) into 24 gauge sterling silver. I am finding that the photo-sensitizer, the same stuff used for transfering artwork to PC boards (GC Positive is the brand name) does not stick to the silver during the etch. I am using concentrated nitric acid as the etchant. It looks like the photoresist is being desolved by the acid. Can anyone give any hints on surface preparation or other etchants to try? Thanks a bunch, Marc edgarm@rpi.edu From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins Wed Feb 9 09:50:42 EST 1994 Article: 3681 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!nic.hookup.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk!djenkins From: djenkins@axion.bt.co.uk (David Jenkins) Newsgroups: rec.woodworking,rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Information on treadle machines Date: 9 Feb 1994 08:13:48 GMT Organization: BT Laboratories Lines: 23 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2ja5vs$a93@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> References: <1994Feb1.191314.28832@sequent.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: elephant.axion.bt.co.uk Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.woodworking:32800 rec.crafts.metalworking:3681 In article , augment@world.std.com (Michael Bergman) writes: |> |> Old singers aren't worth much, in general. There are particular ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |> |> -- |> --Mike Bergman Voice: (617) 271-0230 I Dunno, you can get a good price for a Pavarotti recording... Sorry, couldn't help it, it must be time for one of those green pills. I'll go and stick my head in this bucket of water, and shout "Wibble". ;-) -- David Jenkins * I'd rather be steaming... * From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Wed Feb 9 09:50:43 EST 1994 Article: 3682 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: payce@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Damascus steel Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Wed, 09 Feb 1994 11:38:00 +0000 Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, The University of Nottingham Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <2j67nt$jur@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article <2j67nt$jur@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, jcr57394@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Joshua C. Ruedin) wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for Damascus-type steel knife blade > blanks? You know, the stuff with the patterns in it? It's really > pretty stuff, but pretty expensive to buy as a knife... I could find instructions on how to make it, but you need heavy smithing facilities. Mail if interested. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user Wed Feb 9 09:50:43 EST 1994 Article: 3683 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk!user From: payce@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Etching Silver Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Wed, 09 Feb 1994 11:40:46 +0000 Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, The University of Nottingham Lines: 51 Message-ID: References: <2j9p8b$kme@usenet.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppacwz.nottingham.ac.uk In article <2j9p8b$kme@usenet.rpi.edu>, edgarm@camaro.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) wrote: > Greetings, > > I am trying to make my girlfriend something nice for Valentine's > Day. I had this bright idea to etch her monogram (actually > her cypher) into 24 gauge sterling silver. I am finding > that the photo-sensitizer, the same stuff used for transfering > artwork to PC boards (GC Positive is the brand name) does > not stick to the silver during the etch. I am using concentrated nitric > acid as the etchant. It looks like the photoresist is being desolved > by the acid. > > Can anyone give any hints on surface preparation or other etchants to try? > There are 2 possibilities: 1) you need to clean/key the surface, so give it a good going over with fine (600-800grit) wet/dry paper under flowing water. Avoid oil like the plague - if you can wipe with acetone and warm-air dry, so much the better. 2) Concentrated nitric acid is far too strong an etchant. Bubble formation will peel the resist, and you will lose the lot. Also it may oxidize the resist. Try 10% acid at most. Sulphuric/Hydrochloric acids will not work. It will take longer, of course, and you will find that it works best if you keep an eye on it and use a fine paintbrush to dislodge bubbles as they form. Don't aim to go too deep. As soon as you get any real depth you will start to get lateral etching and loss of definition. The photoresist is designed for etching copper PCB's which only have a few thou of metal. To etch copper, ferric chloride is often used, based on the redox reaction: 2Fe3+ + Cu -> 2Fe2+ + Cu2+ I don't think this will work for silver, however, having looked at the redox potentials. You might try it with ferric nitrate (silver chloride is insoluble). The advantage, if it works, is that no gas is evolved to peel the resist. You'd better get a move on to finish by the 14th! P.S. I never had much luck making presents for my SO. Despite the sweat-of-brow/master craftsman/uniqueness arguments, they seem to prefer it when you spend money. It's quicker, too.. Clive W. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce Wed Feb 9 19:00:06 EST 1994 Article: 3684 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!bounce-bounce From: powers@cis.ohio-state.edu (william thomas powers) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Damascus steel Date: 9 Feb 1994 10:02:06 -0500 Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science Lines: 22 Message-ID: <2jattfINNkop@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu> References: <2j67nt$jur@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu IN Article: 3959 of rec.crafts.metalworking Clive Washington wrote: >>I could find instructions on how to make it, but you need heavy smithing >>faccilities. Mail if interested. This is not true. Heavy smithing equipment really helps and if you really want to do large pieces I would say it is a must; but you can do beautiful pattern welded steel in a very small set-up. Last summer I took a billet to 60 layers in a slapdash "forge" that someone welded up so that I could show them the technique. It was 16 gauge sheet steel and was about 12" square, no surround or table. We used a standard blower and charcoal that was seived from the 4th of July fires. The anvil was a section of railroad rail and I used a truly miserable excuse for a hammer. It worked. The frankish sword blades so prized by the vikings were made without "heavy equipment". Don't get hung up on equipment, Its the skill that counts. Thomas Powers (who doesnt have e- out to his shop----yet and has learned much from it) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!jayj Wed Feb 9 19:00:07 EST 1994 Article: 3685 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!jayj From: jayj@fc.hp.com (Jay Nemeth-Johannes) Subject: Re: How do I restore rusted steel wheels? Sender: news@fc.hp.com (news daemon) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 15:47:34 GMT Reply-To: jayj@hpisla.lvld.hp.com References: <1994Feb6.222414.9334@ccc.amdahl.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: hpfistu.fc.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Loveland CO X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1.4] Followup-To: rec.autos.antique,rec.crafts.metalworking Lines: 31 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4626 rec.crafts.metalworking:3685 Bill Martin (MARTIN@cubic.com) wrote: : In article <1994Feb6.222414.9334@ccc.amdahl.com> tky00@eng.amdahl.com (Tim Yoshihara) writes: : >From: tky00@eng.amdahl.com (Tim Yoshihara) : >Subject: How do I restore rusted steel wheels? : Look in Hemmings Motor News, see if there is a "READY STRIP" shop in your : area, and avoid sandblasting if at all possible. If your rust pits are too : deep, the sandblast will punch a hole thru the bead area. The "READY STRIP" : process is an alkaline chemical dip, which will not remove any non-rusted : metal. If the rust is so bad that sandblasting may punch through, I would not use these wheels at all. A vintage racer friend had a wheel failure because he didn't magnaflux the wheels, just cleaned up the surface rust. The rust went 80% through and the wheel tore under load. Examining it afterward was a sobering sight. He had been racing on metal about the thickness of your typical tin can, with rust making it look like a real wheel. Personally, I would look in Hemmings for a set of wheels. When the car was new, aftermarket alloys were quite popular. I bet you could find a set without too much trouble. They'd probably even be accepted as period accessories, if you're into that route. -- Jay Nemeth-Johannes Hewlett-Packard VXI Systems Division Loveland, Colorado Mail to: jayj@hpisla.lvld.hp.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen Wed Feb 9 19:00:09 EST 1994 Article: 3686 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!news.cerf.net!megatek!hollen From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: [LATHE] Powerfeed lead screw disconnect Message-ID: Sender: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 15:44:43 GMT Lines: 26 I have only used one lathe and last night was watching a Rudy Kouhoupt video showing a Bridgeport lathe and it brought up a question. I am used to having a lever which is used to engaging/disengaging the carriage to the lead screw under powerfeed conditions. It appeared that the Bridgeport had a knob which had to be turned several turns to engage the lead screw. It brings up several questions since I have lost access to the lathe I was able to use and will eventually be buying my own. 1) What other kinds of lead screw engagement systems exist? 2) On the Bridgeport, how do you disengage quickly? Or if you can't disengage quickly, how do you accommodate situations like taking a turning cut down into a shoulder and stopping exactly at the shoulder? 3) Other than condition, what types of functionality should one look for or avoid when buying a lathe (new or used). 4) Are there any books or videos available on lathe (or machine tool) purchase. -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!pacbell.com!pb2esac!kamooni Wed Feb 9 19:00:10 EST 1994 Article: 3687 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!pacbell.com!pb2esac!kamooni From: kamooni@pb2esac.com (Ken Moonitz) Subject: Surface Grinder 4-sale Message-ID: <1994Feb9.162012.9301@pb2esac.com> Keywords: Surface Grinder Organization: Pacific * Bell ESAC Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 16:20:12 GMT Lines: 21 I have a Boyer Shultz 6"X12" Surface Grinder for sale. It has a 5"X10" magnetic chuck, and bunch of grinding wheels. Its 3-phase but if someones interested I have a single phase motor that I could adapt. Price: negotiable, used machines go for around $3,200 from machinery dealers. I'm thinking $1,400 to $1,800 depending on whether someone wants it just the way it sits or if they want it cleaned up nice and pretty and/or delivered. Give me a call if you would like any information. Ken day number: 510-645-5073 or evenings or leave message 510-687-1461 From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Wed Feb 9 19:00:11 EST 1994 Article: 3688 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Motor Question Message-ID: <12=4v9d@dixie.com> Date: Wed, 09 Feb 94 07:42:36 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <2j764q$a0o@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Lines: 54 bq340@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Burlage) writes: >In a previous article, dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) says: >I didn't mean to start a war or anything, I just want to know for sure how >to check the load ACCURATELY, so what is the answer??? >My modem crashed for a few day, but, now I am back on-line. >all this B.S. is getting boring. One guy says yes, one says no, >But, it is very interesting.... >What about a prony brake? Load to 1 hp, and then check what? As I recall your original question, that you wanted to gear your compressor up a bit to gain a bit more capacity, you can't answer it even with a brake. The real question you're asking is "How much power can I get out of this motor without burning it out?" Unless it's a real cheap ah-so piece of garbage (in which case you might melt the rotor - I've seen it happen), your limiting factor is the winding temperature. You can safely load the motor until the winding temperature rises by the amount specified on the nameplate. The permitted temperature rise is related to the insulation class of the windings. An air compressor motor will typically be specified at either 60 or 80 deg C rise. This is a somewhat archaic method of specifying the limit. If the ambient is 35 degrees, you can't just let the motor rise 80 deg above that. The rise is spec'd against 20 deg. So if your motor is rated at 80 deg C rise, you can let the temperature rise to 100 deg C and not exceed the mfr's spec. I can describe a number of ways of estimating the reserve left in your motor but the easiest way is to just buy a larger motor pulley, install it and measure the winding temperature. A compressor motor is almost never fully loaded because the compressor almost never runs against the highest pressure. If you're drawing air off fast enough to run the compressor (almost) continuously, the only operational mode to be concerned about, the compressor will spend its time somewhere around the cut-in setupoint or below. You can amp-clamp the motor if it makes you feel better but it won't tell you much. Note that when you measure the winding temperature, you have to actually get on the winding. This is easy to do with a small thermocouple. Back it with a piece of Duct Putty /AKA gorilla snot. That insulates and secures the thermocouple. If you have to use some other indicator, you should de-rate your maximum by a few degrees to account for the heat gradient across the stator and case. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com Performance Engineering Magazine. Email to me published at my sole discretion "Dr. Kevorkian, please report to the Oval Office." From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Wed Feb 9 19:00:12 EST 1994 Article: 3689 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Motor Question Message-ID: Date: Wed, 09 Feb 94 08:11:54 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <2ir96m$oct@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <11!4!vq@dixie.com> <13630@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> Lines: 66 garyp@tcsegp1.PEN.TEK.COM (Gary R Pimm) writes: >John, What is the phase of the current vs voltage at power factor 1. In phase, by definition. >Or better yet what is the phase angle range of a induction motor as it >goes from no load to full load. Power factor is simply cos(theta) or the cosine of the phase angle between the E and I. power = E * I * cos(theta) >If I understand correctly (slim cance!), a motor that is lightly loaded has >a fairly large phase angle between the voltage and current. 90 degrees? >This angle decreases as the load icreases. It won't go to 90 degrees because there is always some real current being dissipated in the winding resistance and the laminations via eddy currents. Neither will it go completely to unity at full load because there is always some magnetic leakage. >I have a Amprobe with a broken meter movement in it. I don't think it would >take much to modify it so that I could use it as an oscilloscope current >probe. Doing this I could watch the phase angle change under load. Knowing >what the angle at power factor 1 I then would know when the motor reached >"full load". Is this correct or am I missing something. The motor would be at full load at the mfr's specified PF. This can vary widely according to the type of motor. Easier than trying to scope this is to simply measure the amp and volts to get volt-amps and then measure true power with a watt meter. The PF is then simply true power/VA. BTW, contrary to Prickshot's claims, surplus lab-grade wattmeters are commonly available in the $10-20 range. I have several that I bought in that price range. All are at least rated at 1/4% of full scale. They typically come in gorgeous furniture- grade wooden cases. I have a very expensive GE wattmeter calibration standard whose calibration is NBS traceable. All the meters I've bought surplus, including the one last calibrated in 1942 (!) were within specs. These meters contain no magnets to weaken over time so they should retain their calibration indefinitely. Such a meter is VERY handy to have around, particularly when trying to chase down the source of high power bills. There are a couple of lurkers over in sci.electronics who collect old instruments. Indeed, there is a mailing list, though I don't know the address. Ask over there. Someone will pop up with a meter. I know from talking to one of these guys that there was recently a LARGE lot of meters dumped on the market in, I believe, Ma. BTW, if you need a fairly accurate load with which to check your setup, the 500 watt quartz-halogen bulbs such as are used in outdoor lighting and those torchiere lamps are REAL close to 500 watts when exactly 120 volts are applied. I have a number of these things set up in a switchable bank for loading gasoline generators, inverters and the like. I've yet to measure one that varies more than 2 or 3 watts. Plus or minus 5 watts would be one percent so that's not bad at all. Same holds for 300 watt bulbs, though I've not tested as many. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com Performance Engineering Magazine. Email to me published at my sole discretion "Dr. Kevorkian, please report to the Oval Office." From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd Wed Feb 9 19:00:13 EST 1994 Article: 3690 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!rsiatl!jgd From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) Subject: Re: Motor Question Message-ID: <64=45wj@dixie.com> Date: Wed, 09 Feb 94 09:03:00 GMT Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access. The Mouth of the South. References: <2j92m6INN3tf@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Lines: 35 iorio@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Vincent Iorio) writes: >1. Motor experts never agree 100% about motors and ratings. I'm still >waiting for two people to give me the same answer to the question - > "What does servce factor mean?" I can't imagine why anyone would argue over this term. (OK, OK, I take it back.) Quoting from the GE catalog again: "A measure of the overload capacity designed into a motor. A 1.15 SF means the motor can deliver 15% more than the rated HP without injurious overheating. A 1.0 SF motor should not be overloaded beyond its rated horsepower. Service factors will vary for differetn HP motors, and for different speeds. Standard NEMA Service factors for various HP motors and motor speeds are shown in the table below for easy reference." And the table: HP 3600 1800 1200 900 ---------------------------------------------------- 1/20-1/8 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1/6-1/3 1.35 1.35 1.35 1.35 1/2 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.15 3/4 1.25 1.25 1.15 1.15 1 1.25 1.15 1.15 1.15 1.5-up 1.15 1.15 1.15 1.15 John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC, Marietta, GA jgd@dixie.com Performance Engineering Magazine. Email to me published at my sole discretion "Dr. Kevorkian, please report to the Oval Office." From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab09.wwc.edu!johnric Wed Feb 9 19:00:14 EST 1994 Article: 3691 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!saturn.wwc.edu!krh_krhlab09.wwc.edu!johnric From: johnric@saturn.wwc.edu (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Damascus steel Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 18:01:05 GMT Organization: Walla Walla College Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <2j67nt$jur@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: krh_krhlab09.wwc.edu In article payce@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) writes: >From: payce@uk.ac.nott.unicorn (Clive Washington) >Subject: Re: Damascus steel >Date: Wed, 09 Feb 1994 11:38:00 +0000 >In article <2j67nt$jur@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, jcr57394@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu >(Joshua C. Ruedin) wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a source for Damascus-type steel knife blade >> blanks? You know, the stuff with the patterns in it? It's really >> pretty stuff, but pretty expensive to buy as a knife... > >I could find instructions on how to make it, but you need heavy smithing >facilities. Mail if interested. You can buy the steel in blanks and blades from sheffield knifemakers supply. Also there are any number of smiths who make damascus to sell. Addresses can be found in Blade or Knives Illustrated. Rick From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!barrnet.net!parc!richley Wed Feb 9 19:00:15 EST 1994 Article: 3692 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!barrnet.net!parc!richley From: richley@parc.xerox.com (Ed Richley) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: [LATHE] Powerfeed lead screw disconnect Date: 9 Feb 1994 18:09:58 GMT Organization: Xerox Palo Alto Research Center Lines: 17 Message-ID: <2jb8tm$6o@news.parc.xerox.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deneb.parc.xerox.com On lathes which derive power feed from a slotted lead screw (South Bend, in particular) there is a clutch mechanism consisting of a set of "washers" which, when squeezed together, engage the feed mechanism. This is important, because this clutch can be engaged to various degrees. This is the reason for the little knob that ol' Rudy was turning. If your carriage happens to hit a hard stop, it's better to have the clutch slip than to trash gear teeth. In later years it was discovered that this litle knob could be replaced by a lever to perform the same squeezing action. This was an option on SBL equipment, and maybe became standard later on. Note that this is in contrast to Hardinge which has a separate motor for the power feeds, or any lathe that uses the lead screw thread for feed (a real bad idea...). Ed Richley richley@parc.xerox.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ttinews!soldev!bellas Wed Feb 9 19:00:16 EST 1994 Article: 3693 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ttinews!soldev!bellas From: bellas@soldev.TTI.COM (Pete Bellas) Subject: Re: How do I restore rusted steel wheels? Message-ID: <1994Feb9.195948.14866@ttinews.tti.com> Sender: usenet@ttinews.tti.com (Usenet Admin) Nntp-Posting-Host: soldev.tti.com Reply-To: bellas@soldev.TTI.COM (Pete Bellas) Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc. References: <1994Feb6.222414.9334@ccc.amdahl.com> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 19:59:48 GMT Lines: 31 Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.autos.antique:4637 rec.crafts.metalworking:3693 > In article <1994Feb6.222414.9334@ccc.amdahl.com> tky00@eng.amdahl.com (Tim Yoshihara) writes: > >I have a 1971 Honda 600 sedan that I am restoring. > > > >The stock steel wheels (10" diameter) are extremely rusted in the > >tire bead seating area. The rest of the wheel looks good. The only > >area that has major rust is the bead area. I have tried to find > >anyone that can put new rims on the old centers, but they don't > >have any 10" rims. Also, I am taking cost into account. It may > >be cheaper (and funcional) to go to a non-stock option. My first > >thought is 13" wheels with low-profile tires. But, then I have > >to do body work to clear the wider tires. We used to clean up rust by soaking in a solution of 1/4 dilute muriatic acid (1 part acid to 3 parts water). It seemed to do a good job on rust while not attacking the sound metal. Since cost is a factor here I would (if the bead surface is still sound, just pitted) layer the bead area with a strong epoxy then sand smooth (since the we are only talking about the tire seal, not the rim strength). Most of the other options will be pretty expensive. -Pete- ps. Our perception was that the muriatic did not attack unoxidized metal, is this correct or were we courting disaster? * Pete Bellas "Cogito ergo spud" * * Citicorp/TTI I think therefore I yam. * * Santa Monica, CA * * bellas@gamma.tti.com * From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk Wed Feb 9 19:00:18 EST 1994 Article: 3694 of rec.crafts.metalworking Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsh!fwk From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii) Subject: Re: [LATHE] Powerfeed lead screw disconnect Organization: AT&T Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 18:32:03 GMT Message-ID: References: Lines: 93 >From article , by hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck): > > I have only used one lathe and last night was watching a Rudy Kouhoupt > video showing a Bridgeport lathe and it brought up a question. I am > used to having a lever which is used to engaging/disengaging the > carriage to the lead screw under powerfeed conditions. It appeared > that the Bridgeport had a knob which had to be turned several turns to > engage the lead screw. It brings up several questions since I have > lost access to the lathe I was able to use and will eventually be > buying my own. > > 1) What other kinds of lead screw engagement systems exist? Fundamentally, what is needed is a way to engage and disengage a friction clutch between two slowly rotating members. The knob is a relatively easy way. The back member of the clutch has a threaded shaft which protrudes through a pack of friction clutch elements. A knob, running on this threaded shaft, squeezes the clutch elements. The knob and the threaded rod turn slowly toggether as the feed progresses, but this does not interfere wih tightening or loosening. Lever clutches do the same process of squeezing a clutch pack, but they do it with a cam, and thrust bearings to allow the lever to sit still even though the elements being pushed against one another are rotating slowly. I can imagine lots of other ways to engage a friction clutch, but these are the only two I have actually seen on a lathe. > 2) On the Bridgeport, how do you disengage quickly? Or if you can't > disengage quickly, how do you accommodate situations like > taking a turning cut down into a shoulder and stopping exactly > at the shoulder? I don't know about the Bridgeport lathe (actually, I didn't realize that Bridgeport ever made lathes), but my 10" South Bend has a "knob clutch". Mine is a 1957, and in 1958 South Bend converted that lathe to a lever actuated clutch design. When I started using the lathe, and I discovered that there was a means to update my lathe to the lever clutch, I spent some time considering spending the $200 or so on the upgrade package, or perhaps fabricating something myself. After using the lathe more, I have come to the conclusion that the knob clutch is not a significant disadvantage. At least for my lathe, it takes 1/8 - 1/4 of a turn of the knob, not several turns, to engage or disengage. You can keep turning the knob for several turns (in the "disengaging" direction) but nothing more happens after 1/4 turn. You can turn the knob 1/4 turn in about the same time as moving a lever, it is just a somewhat less intuitive motion. The accompanying slow rotation of the knob as you approach the point where you want to disengage also is slightly disconcerting until you get used to it. Overall, however, I don't think the difference between a knob clutch and a lever clutch is a very big deal. I certainly wouldn't reject the purchase of an otherwise suitable lathe because it had a knob clutch. This of course assumes that other lathes with knob clutches act about like mine, but I think that is a reasonable assumption based on the way they work. > 3) Other than condition, what types of functionality should one look > for or avoid when buying a lathe (new or used). You want a lead screw to allow thread cutting. There are occasional examples of lathes without them. Power longitudinal and cross feeds are very useful. I know some 9" South Bend's came without this (the so-called C series). A "quick change" lead screw gearbox, as opposed to manual change gears, is a significant advantage (in terms of time- you can do the same work, although more slowly, with manual change gears). Look for decent sized graduated dials on the cross feed and compound. Some early lathes had very small dials, which made accurate readings more difficult. You want a "back gear" capability on the headstock, to allow very slow turning. I don't off hand know of a general purpose metal lathe which didn't come with this. In addition, you want some way to select a range of spindle speeds, in addition to the back gear, either a set of cone pulleys for a belt, or a "transmission" in the case of a geared-head lathe. Again that is pretty common, but who knows what you might come across at an auction or wherever. If you are buying used, make sure everything is there (tailstock, compound, motor, etc). New or used, consider the accessory package (chucks-3 jaw and 4 jaw, faceplate, lathe dogs, centers, tool holder and tools, tailstock chucks, collets are a nice extra). A taper attachment is a nice extra. You will not use it often, but occasionally it is hard to do something any other way. A tailstock with a graduated dial on the handle is a nice extra for drilling to relatively precise depths. Frank Kerfoot fwk@hogpa.att.com From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!news.Cerritos.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!johnson.pharm.Arizona.EDU!johnson Wed Feb 9 19:00:19 EST 1994 Article: 3695 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!news.Cerritos.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!johnson.pharm.Arizona.EDU!johnson From: johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu (Bruce Johnson) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Etching Silver Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 13:41:17 Organization: University of Arizona Dept. Pharm/Tox Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <2j9p8b$kme@usenet.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: johnson.pharm.arizona.edu X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] In article <2j9p8b$kme@usenet.rpi.edu> edgarm@camaro.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) writes: >From: edgarm@camaro.its.rpi.edu (Marc Edgar) >Subject: Etching Silver >Date: 9 Feb 1994 04:36:27 GMT >Greetings, >I am trying to make my girlfriend something nice for Valentine's >Day. I had this bright idea to etch her monogram (actually >her cypher) into 24 gauge sterling silver. I am finding >that the photo-sensitizer, the same stuff used for transfering >artwork to PC boards (GC Positive is the brand name) does >not stick to the silver during the etch. I am using concentrated nitric >acid as the etchant. It looks like the photoresist is being desolved >by the acid. >Can anyone give any hints on surface preparation or other etchants to try? >Thanks a bunch, >Marc >edgarm@rpi.edu Well, when I was making jewelry (many years ago :( we etched silver and brass by cleaning the piece really well, then heating it slightly, and rubbing a chunk of beeswax on it. The beeswax is quite resistant to the nitric we used (don't remember the concentration), and the only problem, as with all acid etching operations is the etchant undercutting the etched area. Bruce Johnson The University of Arizona This place...have an OPINION???? From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!flying!frisbie Wed Feb 9 19:00:20 EST 1994 Article: 3696 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcomsv!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.com Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Old Engines and Museums Message-ID: <1994Feb9.103958.201@flying-disk.com> Date: 9 Feb 94 10:39:57 PST References: <2j892k$bgg@news.service.uci.edu> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 29 In article <2j892k$bgg@news.service.uci.edu>, dparsons@plasma.ps.uci.edu () writes: > There is a Museum in Vista California, someone mentioned it. It is the > California Early Day Gas Engine and Tractor Museum. > Twice a year for two consecutive weekends, the Museum puts on a show. This is a great show! My mother lives in nearby Escondido, and I always seem to pick those weekends to go visit her. :-) The first few times, she would smile sweetly as I dragged my wife off to the show for the day. Then one of her friends talked her into exhibiting her hand-weaving skills at the show. Now, she spends more time there than I do! I really enjoy seeing that huge old Corliss engine turn over. Last year it looked like they had the concrete pads ready for some new engines. Do you know if they are running yet, or are they still being restored? There is one feature that I would like to see added to the show. When they go through the starting procedure for the big diesel engine from Catalina Island, it would be nice to have someone with a P.A. system describing exactly what they are doing. Could you pass this on to the Powers That Be? -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX) From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!crcnis1.unl.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Wed Feb 9 19:00:21 EST 1994 Article: 3698 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!crcnis1.unl.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Buying a Mill - advice needed Message-ID: <1681.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 9 Feb 94 13:45:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 21 -> If I had it to do over again, I'd rent a truck with a lift-gate and -> try to move it in one piece. Maybe use a pallet-jack, or pipe -> rollers. When I got my (used) mill the vendor lifted it onto my trailer with a forklift. When I got it home, I had a wrecker lift it off the trailer and stick it in the shop door with the boom. The door was too small to admit the wrecker and let it turn to where I wanted the mill. I had planned to use pipe rollers, but that plan fell through. The mill's bottom wasn't flat - it had "feet" cast in at the corners. I won't bore you with the story of trying to find a pallet jack to rent, but when I finally got the jack, shifting the mill into place took only minutes. One thing - my mid'40s manufacture Gorton mill was designed for operation by *short* people. I'm not all that tall myself, but I put them mill up on 6" sections of 4x4 to raise it to a more practical height. From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Wed Feb 9 19:00:22 EST 1994 Article: 3699 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!engr.uark.edu!news.ualr.edu!chaos!dave.williams Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Buying a Mill - advice needed Message-ID: <1682.106.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Date: 9 Feb 94 13:49:00 GMT Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Distribution: world Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet Lines: 15 -> My problem is that the only place I have to put the mill is in the -> basement, which means that it will have to be disassembled which, -> understandably, Enco says will void the warranty. I don't know how your basement is laid out, but if you're not put off by a little woodworking (assuming your house isn't concrete) you might look at one of the following options: 1) remove basement steps (if internal and removeable); stick the mill through the door with a wrecker boom and let it down 2) cut a hole in the floor by an outside house door, and let the mill through the floor From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!plasma.ps.uci.edu!dparsons Wed Feb 9 19:00:23 EST 1994 Article: 3700 of rec.crafts.metalworking Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!bnrgate!nott!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!plasma.ps.uci.edu!dparsons From: dparsons@plasma.ps.uci.edu () Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Old Engines and Museums Date: 9 Feb 1994 21:55:31 GMT Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 30 Message-ID: <2jbm4j$6m2@news.service.uci.edu> References: <1994Feb9.103958.201@flying-disk.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plasma.ps.uci.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] frisbie@flying-disk.com wrote: : In article <2j892k$bgg@news.service.uci.edu>, : dparsons@plasma.ps.uci.edu () writes: : Last year it looked like they had the concrete pads ready : for some new engines. Do you know if they are running : yet, or are they still being restored? Those concerete pads are for one engine/compressor combination. The people that are in charge of Steam Engine Row, Chuck and Leonard are at odds about weather or not to set that engine. Chuck wants to wait until so and so can bring his laser leveling device out to level those two units together. Leonard says, "Hell, they didn't have a (explitive deleated) laser when they set it the first time!" I think he's right. What do you think? : There is one feature that I would like to see added to the : show. When they go through the starting procedure for the : big diesel engine from Catalina Island, it would be nice to : have someone with a P.A. system describing exactly what they : are doing. Could you pass this on to the Powers That Be? Yes. I will pass this suggestion on to the Powers this weekend. I am going out there rain or shine. That is a nice engine. I like your idea myself. Dave Parsons : -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie@Flying-Disk.Com : -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. : -- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice) : -- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX)