Subject: Welder choice for auto welding

From: [email-masked] (Bob Maccione)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:09:01

Hi,

  I've got a hole in the floor of my 55 Olds and would like to attack the
welding of it myself.  The substructure is fine.  I'd like to buy a welder
and am confused as to the best type for this type of application.  My
criteria are - 120v operation, less than 500 bucks.  My applications are
mostly joining metal together ( since I also want to do a little leading
I have to get a torch, and can use that for some of the cutting ).  
Sooo, what are the pros and cons between TIG, MIG, etc?  I've
experimented in the past with a torch and yes even used to own a solid-ox 
system.  I can solder and have studied up enough to take the plunge.  

Thanks in advance,
bob maccione
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Steven J Orlin)
Date: 24 Jan 1994 23:13:09 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>system.  I can solder and have studied up enough to take the plunge.

Hmm, for a hole in the floor, I would probably recommend using a TIG welder.
I'm no expert, but I have used MIG, TIG, and "stick" arc welders, and
also oxygen and acetylene.

In my experience, a tig welder is great for delicate areas, and small parts.
It also can cut metal very easily.  You can switch the settings to weld
aluminum with a tig, and the welds come out beautiful.  With a little practice,
you can make professional welds in no time.

I'm not sure how thick of metal you can weld with a tig, the thickest I've
ever welded was about .25"  (steel)

Stick arc welders take a lot of practice, and are widely used on construction
sites, where welding very thick metal is necessary, and the look of the weld
itself isn't all that important.
Stick welders throw sparks everywhere, and also little bits of molten steel,
which solidify and stick to the object you're welding.  they can be ground
down, or brushed off.   Stick welders are great for deep steel penetration,
and for welding LARGE pipes and flat plates.

A mig welder is similar to the stick welder in that it throws sparks all over,
and leaves the crap, but it operates differently.  It's not hard to get used
to, but the welder itself is still kind of "clumsy" and you have to be careful
if working on delicate objects; however, I prefer this over a stick arc
welder.

An oxygen and acetylene welding outfit is the choice of many do it yourselfers,
as well as body shops -which weld thinner material (body panels, etc.)
This outfit is probably the hardest to become an expert with, but you can
probably work some of the best "miracles" with it if you become an expert.
I usually group this one with the tig welder, in that the welds can come out
looking professional, and it is handy with more delicate things.
You really gotta watch out though, because it is very easy to warp the object
you're working on with this, if you're not careful.

I'm no expert, these are just my opinions.

Hope some of this helps in your decision.

Shop around!

steve

---

From: [email-masked] (Frank Ball)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 00:33:57 GMT

Bob Maccione ([email-masked]) wrote:
&   I've got a hole in the floor of my 55 Olds and would like to attack the
& welding of it myself.  The substructure is fine.  I'd like to buy a welder
& and am confused as to the best type for this type of application.  My
& criteria are - 120v operation, less than 500 bucks.  My applications are
& mostly joining metal together ( since I also want to do a little leading
& I have to get a torch, and can use that for some of the cutting ).  
& Sooo, what are the pros and cons between TIG, MIG, etc?  I've
& experimented in the past with a torch and yes even used to own a solid-ox 
& system.  I can solder and have studied up enough to take the plunge.  

I have an oxy/acetelyne torch and a stick welder in the garage.  If I
had to fix your floor I would fire up the torch and *braze* the new 
steel in place.  It is as easy as soldering and strong enough for the
job.   

--
Frank Ball   1UR-M          [email-masked]    (707) 794-4168 work,
Hewlett Packard             (707) 794-3844 fax,  (707) 538-3693 home
1212 Valley House Drive     IT175, XT350, Seca 750, '62 F-100, PL510
Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999  KC6WUG, LAW, AMA, Dod #7566, NMLRA, NRA.

---

From: [email-masked] (Bill Kish)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 17:33:37 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Frank
Ball) writes:
|> Bob Maccione ([email-masked]) wrote:
|> &   I've got a hole in the floor of my 55 Olds and would like to attack the
|> & welding of it myself.  The substructure is fine.  I'd like to buy a welder
|> & and am confused as to the best type for this type of application.  My
|> & criteria are - 120v operation, less than 500 bucks.  My applications are
|> & mostly joining metal together ( since I also want to do a little leading
|> & I have to get a torch, and can use that for some of the cutting ).  
|> & Sooo, what are the pros and cons between TIG, MIG, etc?  I've
|> & experimented in the past with a torch and yes even used to own a solid-ox 
|> & system.  I can solder and have studied up enough to take the plunge.  
|> 
|> I have an oxy/acetelyne torch and a stick welder in the garage.  If I
|> had to fix your floor I would fire up the torch and *braze* the new 
|> steel in place.  It is as easy as soldering and strong enough for the
|> job.   
|> 
|> --
|> Frank Ball   1UR-M          [email-masked]    (707) 794-4168 work,
|> Hewlett Packard             (707) 794-3844 fax,  (707) 538-3693 home
|> 1212 Valley House Drive     IT175, XT350, Seca 750, '62 F-100, PL510
|> Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999  KC6WUG, LAW, AMA, Dod #7566, NMLRA, NRA.

 I've been following this thread for a while... My quickie contribution to the 
discussion is to suggest that you use your Oxy-acetelene outfit to butt weld
in the patch. Practice welding a couple of pieces of 18ga steel together and 
see how you like it. You didn't mention the size of the patch, but if it isn't 
the entire floor panel you should be able to use your torch.

			-BK

---

From: [email-masked] (Steven J Orlin)
Date: 26 Jan 1994 20:20:03 GMT

>|> steel in place.  It is as easy as soldering and strong enough for the

Be very careful where you decide to use braze on a car.  It cracks very easily,
and shouldn't be used in any area which absorbs vibrations.
It is also not as strong as weld.

I've only had bad experiences with braze --except making lanterns :)

steve

---

From: [email-masked] (Andy Dingley)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 02:40:58 +0000

In article <[email-masked]>
           [email-masked] "Bob Maccione" writes:
> welding of it myself.

No question about it, get a mig.

Brazing ?   NO !  It's just not strong enough for repairing bodywork. It's
now a stated failure on the UK MOT test to have a brazed repair in a
structural part of a car's bodywork. Not without reason either, although
the interpretation of "structural" is a bit vague.

Oxy/acetylene ? Great fun, but sloooowwww........ In the UK, the costs of
bottle rental are also prohibitive. You can only buy the small bottles, and
they're a pain for running out when you don't want them to. Of course, having
it around as a source of heat may be useful for other stuff.

Tig ?  Great thing to have around, but expensive to buy. For simple bodywork,
I'd be hard-pressed to think of any advantage over mig.

Arc ?  Useless for thin stuff. OTOH, arc welders are dirt cheap, handy for
hacking up the occasional bit of angle iron bracketry, and the "2 carbon rods"
brazing torches are a convenient source of heat. Vibrating electrode gimmicks
are just that - gimmicks.

So what do you want from a mig ?  They're all much the same price to buy, but
the running costs vary. Cored wire mig welding is expensive and a waste of
time. Use a proper gas shield around it. Disposable cylinders are expensive
(especially when they leak flat once you've opened them), but you can always
get a disposable cylinder welder then add your own regulator & pub CO2
cylinder later. I still buy my argon in disposables. Wire reel size is
important - the bigger the reels are, the cheaper it is. Make sure the welder
can handle 2.5kg reels (most of the top-mounted reels are OK). Live welding
torches are an inconvenience you can live with, but most modern machines are
insulated. Removable torch cables are a convenience that isn't worth paying
money for.

The biggest single variation between mig welder brands is the quality of the
wire feed mechanism. A 4 roller setup is *far* superior to a 2 roller setup.
Some 2 roller setups are so bad for sticking & slipping that some days I feel
I'd be better feeding the bloody wire by hand ! I have 2 SIP welders, the
small Migmate is just a total dog for this, and the bigger replacement isn't
*much* better 8-(

Aluminium welding with a mig is surprisingly easy, just change the gas to
argon and make sure the rollers will feed the thicker aluminium wire.

If you get copper buildup on the steel rollers, clean it off by dunking them
in ferric chloride (printed circuit board etchant) for a few minutes.

-- 
Andy Dingley   Codesmiths of Newcastle   [email-masked]

            Remember ! 23rd May 1994 is SPAM Jake day

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 31 Jan 94 23:15:57 GMT

>>   I've got a hole in the floor of my 55 Olds and would like to attack the
     I recently bought a Lincoln Weldpak 100 at my local Costco for about $280.
It appears to be a well-made (USA! :)) unit with cooling fan and all-metal
wire-feed mechanism. Eastwood sells the identical welder for $429.
     It comes set up for flux-core operation. The MIG conversion kit is
another hundred bucks. It's still pretty cheap, and a week of practice makes
me think it'll be genuinely useful for sheet-metal work.
     The Hobart Handler is another 110-v unit that comes highly recommended
by a bodyman whose work I admire, but it's awfully expensive.
     I'm a long-time gas welder. What got me interested in wire-feed is the
ability to hold the work in one hand while tacking it in place with the other,
not always easy to do with oxy-acetylene!
               Jim Hockenhull <[email-masked]>
               Messerschmitt Erstazteile Handler
               "Four wheels -- if you count the spare!"