Subject: Re: Mail Making

From: [email-masked] (SCOTT F. MASTROIANNI)
Date: 11 Dec 93 18:36:39 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (b
ill nelson) writes:
>[email-masked] (Saturnus) writes:
>: I have been looking long and far for a set of special tools used in the
>: manufacture of stainless steel ringmail armor. The first tool is called a
>: cold forge swage. Its use is to stamp or mold a cold piece of metal into a
>: required form. The other tool has no name (to my knowledge). It looks
>: similar to a pair of pliers. One side of the plyers has a sharp point and
>: the other a small hole. When pressed together on a metal ring it pierces
>: the ring in a fasion that allows a small rivet to be used to close the
>: link by hand. In my desperation I have looked for the assistance of a
>: professional smithy, but he found the tools to be too intricate for him to
>: design from scratch.
>
>In the first place, they did not have stainless steel in the middle ages.
>What's wrong? Can't stand a bit of rust?

Do you think for one moment that if stainless alloys existed in the middle
ages, they wouldn't have found widespread usage in nearly all forms of armor?
>
>A problem with stainless steel is that it tends to work harden. This makes
>it just very difficult, if not impossible, to cold mold. Punching is also
>a real problem - often you will get a hole started, but cannot open it up
>without it cracking.

I have just come back from my shop where I experimented with two types of
stainless wire.  The first was Tig welding wire, exact alloy unknown, but I
used it to make my brazed-ring hauberk.  The other wire was 1/16" 316
stainless.  I formed both wires into rings that had ends overlapping by 5/16"
or so.  I then attempted to flatten the overlapped region and widen it enough
to accomodate a rivet.  Both alloys seemed flatten decently, although without
some sort of swage ring to retain their circular shape, I was required to
hammer them back into shape.  As expected, some work hardening of the hammered
regions occurred, but after annealing, these sections could be drilled, but
probably not punched to accomodate a rivet.  My brief experimentation led me
to believe that it may be possible to make a riveted mail out of stainless
wire if the wire diameter to ring diameter ratio was high enough, but the
process would be far more labor intensive than butting, brazing or welding the
rings.  If you are trying to make an authentic suit of mail using the
authentic methods, then it would probably be well to use authentic materials.
If you like the properties of high-tech alloys then why not avail yourself of
the modern methods of forming and linking the rings.  I'm still fascinated by
the idea of a tig-welded titanium suit of mail.
>
>Very little of the mail in the middle ages appears to have been riveted.
>Most seems to have been either butt welded or brazed, if it was not simply
>butted together.
>
>: Can anyone direct me to a source that could either provide me with an
>: alternative or actualy help me find a retailer that could sell me these
>: unique tools?
>
>Sorry, I cannot help here. Most of the metal workers in the SCA make their
>own punches.

I have to concur.  Ever since K-mart got rid of it's armory section I've had
to make all my own tools.  Seriously though, I have read that SCA members
frequently use a standard Whitney punch when they make riveted mail.  Unless
you have some burning desire to use authentic tools, just about any tool
catalog (McMaster-Carr, MSC, etc.) should carry these punches.  Good
luck--chain mail is one of the most beautiful forms of armor to own,
especially when you have put hundreds of hours of your own work into it.
>Bill
                                     f
                                    s m
--

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From: [email-masked] (Louis Victor Zimmerman)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 07:42:04 GMT

>the idea of a tig-welded titanium suit of mail.

Titanium has always been my choice for the real-life equivalent
to Tolkiens Mithril... :-)

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