Subject: Re: Anvils

From: [email-masked] (Mal Goris)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 03:47:33 GMT

In article ,  writes:
> 	The book "The Complete Bladesmith" by Jim Hrisoulas has a fairly 
> good section on making an anvil out of a railroad track including heat 
> treating it.  I would reccomend the book for anyone who wants to make knives 
> or Damascus steel.

BTW, what is Damascus steel, and how is it made? I've heard that in knife
making it is inferior to other materials in terms of holding its edge, etc,
but that it looks good aesthetically. Is this true?

-- 
Mal Goris
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Tim Kirby)
Date: 19 Nov 93 08:56:04 CST

Mal Goris ([email-masked]) wrote:
: BTW, what is Damascus steel, and how is it made?...

Uh, I'm going to leave this to the resident damascus fans, but if this
question doesn't qualify as a FAQ I don't know what does...

... whoever answers this, please send something to Jim for the FAQ !

Tim
--
Tim Kirby --------- Cray Research Inc., Eagan, MN, USA ---------- [email-masked]
Disclaimer: Cray didn't say this... I did...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If all else fails, Immortality may always be assured by spectacular error(JKG)

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From: [email-masked] (RICHARD ALLAN JOHNSON)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 18:18:31 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Mal Goris) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Mal Goris)
>Subject: Re: Anvils
>Keywords: anvils damascus steel
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 03:47:33 GMT
>In article ,  writes:

	"Damascus" steel is usually created nowadays when 2 materials with 
differing carbon content or differing properties such as high and low carbon 
or high carbon and nickel are forge welded together to form on solid 
billet.  My experience is that in general, Damascus does not stay shaving 
sharp as long as straight carbon steel but when it dulls it leaves a 
microscopic saw edge that will cut flesh like nothing else.

Any coments are welcome

Rick

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From: [email-masked] (Robert Allen)
Date: 22 Nov 1993 19:48:42 GMT

>microscopic saw edge that will cut flesh like nothing else.

    I've had the opportunity to discuss Damascus mfgr. with Jerry Fisk
    and John Smith, two makers who do excellent damascus.  Let's see if
    I can remember the basics:

    "Damascus" as used by most makers today means a layered material made
    from a mixture of high and low carbon steels.  Makers differ the mix
    according to their pet mixes.  A billet of alternating layers is forge
    welded, then folded and re-folded to the desired number of layers.  I've
    been told that more than 200-300 layers is counter-productive, as at
    that point you start to get too much carbon migration between the layers
    and you end up with a homogeneous medium carbon steel.  The point of
    damascus, I've been told, is that the high carbon component gives up
    a big of carbon to the low carbon component.  When the blade is hardened,
    the high carbon component gets fairly tough, which gives you good edge
    holding, and the low carbon component gets a little harder.  The point
    of all this is that damascus is supposed to have a "micro-serrated"
    edge, which lasts a long time.  The theory as I understand it is that
    the low carbon component wears faster than the high carbon component,
    giving you an "aggressive" edge that can't be beat.  The two damascus
    blades I have seem to bear this out, beyond what merely varying the
    the grit on a sharpening stone would do.

    After forging a damascus blade, it is etched in one of several acid
    mixtures, which causes the pattern caused by the layering to emerge.
    Typically damascus is then blued to bring out the contrast between
    the layers. Damascus is often modified by forming to create specific 
    patterns in the steel.  Some makers have produced small American flags
    in the pattern.  Note that such patterns are produced strictly for
    the sake of art, not for performance.  Popular performance oriented
    patterns are ladder pattern (has ladder "rungs" the length of the blade),
    San Mai (various makers wrap a carbon steel layer between two damascus
    layers), random pattern, etc.  Some makers claim the different patterns
    offer different structural or cutting advantages.  The patterns are
    made by machining the billet or blade with the pattern, then re-heating
    and the material and hammering it flat, etc.  There is also cable damascus
    which is forge welded cable.  Most makers I've spoken with told me their
    cable damascus looked good, but wasn't as strong as the other damascus.
    Cable damascus has a unique reptile-scale type pattern.

    A good damascus should OUT-perform straight carbon steel in most areas,
    but particularly in edge holding.  Some makers say their damascus is
    not as springlike, and so the blades will not spring back as close to
    true as a carbon steel blade will, under a vise-bending test.  I've found
    that most famous makers are honest about their damascus.  Tim (?) Winkler
    told me he makes damascus strictly because it looks nice.  Wayne
    Valakovich (sp?) told me that his normal damascus isn't as good as his
    carbon steel, but that his high-density damascus is better.  Fisk and
    Smith both say their damascus is better than their carbon steel in most
    regards, although it still is not as springlike as their high carbon
    blades.

    I've cut down small trees with a Fisk damascus blade, with no apparent
    wear on the edge.  I have a Smith bowie which cuts through blue jeans
    with zero apparent effort.

    By the way, I have an 8' long War Fork, a 14th century type of pole arm,
    made by Jerry Fisk which I'm interested in selling.  It is 8' long
    overall, with a (as I recall) 10" long, 1/4 twist San Mai damascus dagger
    type blade, with a carbon steel "fork" (the weapon looks sort of like
    a trident), and a carbon steel onion head pointed base piece as a
    counter weight.  The handle shaft unscrews in the middle like a pool
    cue, and the shafts are 2, approx. 3' lengths of cocobolo wood.  The
    whole thing comes in a padded rifle case, with a walnut & brass plaque
    explaining the history of the weapon, and with a place for the owners
    name to be engraved (my name is engraved on it, but you could get a
    trophy shop to put a smaller name plaque over the name part).  I also
    have the original makers drawings and correspondance with Jerry Fisk
    about this weapon.  This was the first piece in a series that he
    made, one per year, in custom reproductions.  A subsequent piece in
    the series (which I do not have) was a damascus sheield with damascus
    blades projecting from each side.  I'm asking $2,500.00 for the War
    Fork.  Contact me via email if you're interested.

---
Robert Allen, [email-masked]		DISCLAIMER: I said it, not my company.

    "The U.S. Constitution may be flawed,
     but it's a whole lot better than what we have now."