Subject: Glass Cutting Saws?

From: Michael Lagae <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 00:44:03 GMT

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding glass 
cutting band saws.

I saw a post in rec.crafts.misc (I believe) about a year ago from 
someone who seemed very pleased with a stained glass cutting band 
saw.  However, I!ve talked to a few glass dealers who claim that 
they cut very slowly (one inch/minute) and really aren!t worth it 
unless you need to make very integrate cuts which would be 
impossible to do otherwise.

I!ve only actually seen one such band saw.  I don!t recall the 
brand, but it didn!t seem all that durable, was a rather small 
table top unit and was extremely expensive; around $500.  The only 
feature that set it apart from other band saws is that it had a 
water reservoir around the lower wheel.

I!d like to get back into making stained glass lamps and the idea 
of being able to saw quickly through glass is appealing.  However, 
I!m leery of purchasing a hobbyist type of machine.  I!d be much 
more inclined to spend that much or more for a good quality tool 
that could be used for other materials as well.

So, my questions are:

1.  Does anyone have any experience with any glass cutting band 
saws?  How fast can they cut and do you find that you use it for 
most of your glass cutting or only for those pieces that would be 
impossible to do otherwise?

2.  Does anyone have any experience with any other tools that 
could be used to cut glass?  Does anyone make glass cutting blades 
for larger band saws or scroll saws?

Thanks for any info.

-Michael

Michael Lagae           [email-masked]           Apple Computer, Inc.

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From: [email-masked] (Tom Dugan)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 16:26:16 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Michael Lagae <[email-masked]> writes:
|> Hi,
(Questions on glass cutting band saws deleted)
|> 
|> So, my questions are:
|> 
|> 1.  Does anyone have any experience with any glass cutting band 
|> saws?  How fast can they cut and do you find that you use it for 
|> most of your glass cutting or only for those pieces that would be 
|> impossible to do otherwise?
|> 
|> 2.  Does anyone have any experience with any other tools that 
|> could be used to cut glass?  Does anyone make glass cutting blades 
|> for larger band saws or scroll saws?
|> 
|> Thanks for any info.
|> 
|> -Michael
|> 
|> Michael Lagae           [email-masked]           Apple Computer, Inc.

Perhaps not a useful answer to question #2, but during my telescope making
days I read where you could cut plate glass with scissors under water. I
tried this and it actually works! (Note: Do NOT use the wife's sewing scissors
for this experiment.) It actually takes a bit of effort to get through the
glass (1/4"), but I could cut small (2") pieces without problem. Just take an
old pair of scissors and your glass and hold 'em in a bucket of water. Cut as
desired.

Just thought you might like to know.

-- 
Tom Dugan - Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC	[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (John De Armond)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 19:29:17 GMT

>impossible to do otherwise.

Yes, we have a Diamond Lazer 1000 saw which is a chinese clone
of the Gryphon unit.  It works very well and we are quite 
pleased with it.  It's speed is dependent on the thickness and hardness
of the glass.  For thin fusable glass (what I usually use it with), it
cuts several inches per minute.  Even regular stained glass cuts 
satisfactorilly fast.  It is NOT as fast as scoring-and-breaking but
then again, you can't score a spiral or other complex shape.

My experience is most stained glass dealers disparage the products
they either can't get or don't make money on.

>water reservoir around the lower wheel.

The Gryphon saw was cloned because their price was so outrageous.
Strangely enough, Gryphon's saw is now reasonably priced.  We paid
about $200 for our saw.  I have used several other brands including
the very expensive german unit and I like the Lazer the best.
It is fast and deceptively rugged.  Accomidations for the diamond
blade are subtle but numerous and range from the tensioning system
to the rubber rollers and teflon guides.  

>that could be used for other materials as well.

Sawing really isn't a substitute for pieces that can be scored and
cracked.  The speed of scoring is vastly superior.  On the other hand,
if you have a curved cut on a $50 piece of glass, it is nice not to
risk a spurrious crack.

>for larger band saws or scroll saws?

The pantograph-based scoring machines work well.  Gryphon makes a fairly
expensive scoring machine that seems to have some merit.  IT has a 
pneumatic driven scoring wheel and a variable speed rubber drive wheel
under it.  The idea is to feed the glass in much as you would to a band-
saw.  The score is deep and accurate.  

I am investigating having diamond blades made for a Delta woodworking
saw but I've yet to find a suitable price.  The conversion requires
more than just the blade.  Things such as rubber rollers and 
frictionless guides as well as a water system.  

I'm experimenting with CO2 laser cutting but the work is in its earliest
stage.  It looks to have some possibilities.

BTW, there is a stained glass mailing list, [email-masked].  Subscribe
to [email-masked].  Put your email address on the Subject: line.

John

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC                   | For a free sample magazine, send
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM)     | a digest-size 52 cent SASE 
Marietta, Ga     "Hotrods'n'computers"   | (Domestic) to PO Box 669728
[email-masked]    "What could be better?" | Marietta, GA 30066
Email to me may be published at my sole discretion.

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From: [email-masked] (Bob Niemi)
Date: 30 Nov 93 19:16:44 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> Michael Lagae <[email-masked]> writes:
>... stained glass cutting band saw. ....
>they cut very slowly (one inch/minute) ....
>

I had occasion to use a rod saw blade, which mounts into a hacksaw frame,
for cutting ceramic tiles, both wall tile and quarry tile (floor tile).
It is a stiff cable, about 1/16" diameter, which is loaded with carbide
granules.  It cut the tile like butter, and weird shapes were easy to do.
It may work as well on glass, but probably slower.

I mounted the tiles in a vise padded with whatever I had handy (probably
rags).  Cheap, simple and effective for my application, and it wouldn't
cost much (<$3.00) to try. 

Bob Niemi, Astronautics, Madison, WI   ...uwvax!astroatc!niemi

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From: [email-masked] (johnm)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 17:07:46 GMT

> impossible to do otherwise.

I agree with the glass dealer. I have not seen the bandsaw but I have 
seen many glass saws. The problem is class can not be cut a we think of 
it from having experience with things like wood or plastic. That is why 
most glass is cut by scoring. Some very intricate cuts can be made with 
scoring, check out a stain glass expert. Glass cutting with a saw is a 
grinding process. Typically diamond abrasives are used. Since the volume 
of cut material is removed in powder instead of a chip the processes just 
can not be too fast with causing high stresses in the glass.

Bandsaw blades wear as the revolve due to the bending around the wheels. 
Priced any diamond blades lately? My 7 1/4 circular saw blade cost over 
$100. I am sure the bandsaw blade would cost much more. In fact if I made 
the bandsaws I would give the user the saw as long as I could sell him 
the blades!!

My advice is figure out what it is you really want to do. See is the more 
traditional cutting methods could be used. Then price the cost of having 
it cut by someone who owns the equipment.

[*> Management may or may not agree with the above message.
[*> WndrSvr in Southern California; Call +1-310-370-3069
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Marzolino                          Bad spellers of the world unight!
71242,1610 Compuserve                   "Plants are like people, but they 
[email-masked]                  listen better"

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From: [email-masked] (DRAGON!)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 22:01:46 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (johnm) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (johnm)
>Subject: Re: Glass Cutting Saws?
>Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 17:07:46 GMT

>> I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding glass 

Have you checked with any of the St. Glass suppliers?  There's a whole list 
with 800#'s, compiled by some folks on the SG bbs on Prodigy, that I could 
post for you.

Chris.
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DRAGON!
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              ()()  o         WHAT THE DRAGON! SAYS IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE
                 \ *          OPINIONS OF WHERE THE DRAGON! WORKS!  SO THERE!

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From: [email-masked] (Bulletin board login)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 18:01:52 GMT

> Michael Lagae           [email-masked]           Apple Computer, Inc.

   I am also thinking about purchasing a band saw for cutting glass.  I can
get a very nice saw for about 300. here in Baltimore.  I have talked with
serveral people with some of the same concerns that you are expressing.
As with any subject you have pro's and cons'.  Generally people tell me that
it is a very handy too for doing intricate pieces; such as flower peddals.
It also reduces the amount of grinding, especially on curved pieces.

  As for blades for other saws, it wouldn't be very safe.  The dust from
glass is toxic!  Therefore if you grind or saw glass dry, it would be very dange
rous.  that is why you saw the reservior on the on saw.  That is the only way
that I would even think of it (wet).  Hope this helps.  I think it is a good
investment if you do a large volume.  I have been doing glass for about 8 years
now, and just started a business.  I should be selling supplies mid '94.

*****************
Eric Magsamen
[email-masked]
Bel Air, Maryland
*****************

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From: [email-masked] (21012d)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 04:55:47 GMT

I would also suggest that a band saw might be very unsatisfactory,
but weakly suggest looking at wire abrasive saws  either diamond
or "mud" as in silicon carbide water slurry.  The things you can not
do by scoring and breaking like holes, internal cut outs can be
tackled with careful wet use of abrasives.  Wet grinding is a
safty feature as well as keeping things cool.    Les DeGroff

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From: [email-masked] (DRAGON!)
Date: 16 Dec 93 16:35:09 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (21012d) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (21012d)
>Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 04:55:47 GMT

>safty feature as well as keeping things cool.    Les DeGroff

Just FYI, not a flame, the bandsaws for Stained Glass are like wire abrasive 
saws . . . diamonds on the cutting edge.  I believe they've all got water 
baths built in as well.  SG grinders all have water baths for cooling/
cleaning.  The one area I've found that takes some work is when I'm trying 
to drill holes with the smaller tips.  That requires stopping to wet the bit/
glass periodically.  For holes Black & Decker sells a 4 bit set of tile/
glass drilling bits.  I've got a set but haven't tried them.  They too, will 
need to be cooled with water or something.  

Chris