Subject: How would you cut 1/16" to 1/8" steel?

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 16:37:22 EST

I thinking about starting a project that requires numerous pieces of
1/16" to 1/8" mild flat steel to be cut.  There are lots of inside and
outside curves with anywhere from 1/4" radius to about 1" radius.  The
smaller inside curves could be drilled, but what about the larger ones?
Could I use a saber saw with a metal cutting blade?  I don't think that
buying a vertical metal cutting bandsaw would be cost effective for this
project.  Thanks!

From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!corpgate!news.utdallas.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!news.sinet.slb.com!maggie.austin.wireline.slb.com!detroit.austin.wireline.slb.com!user Sat Mar 12 20:55:57

 EST 1994
Article: 4125 of rec.crafts.metalworking
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From: [email-masked] (Terry Mayhugh)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Recommendation: MIG or Oxy-Accetalene ?
Followup-To: rec.crafts.metalworking
Date: 9 Mar 1994 21:39:11 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger, Austin TX
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References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
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In my area the welding supply houses offer you 2 options on cylinders. One
is to
rent. The monthly rental is very low if you frequently refill the
cylinders. It
creeps up a few dollars per month if you don't. They are really in the
business to sell gas not cylinders. The second option is an outright
purchase. I paid about $225 for one of my 122cuft cylinders under this
plan. They typically have a re-purchase agreement that allows you to sell
them back at any time for 90% of the CURRENT sales price. Also under this
agreement they take care of hydro and valve maintenance. Since the tanks
are not re-filled in real-time, you always exchange "your" tank for a
re-fill. Our local shops are
particular about refilling cylinders which were purchased elsewhere,
however. This is probably due to their commitment to the cylinder
maintenance. They also set a limit on the size of the tank that they are
willing to sell outright. Anything over 122cuft is rental only. I'm not
sure whether this is local policy or regulation.
Its not clear whether there is a big advantage to either option if you
don't use alot of gas. From other's experiences on purchase prices, gas
cyclinder prices don't seem to change much so they're not much of an
investment opportunity.

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From: [email-masked] (Paul Jones)
Date: 11 Mar 1994 14:15:40 GMT

>buying a vertical metal cutting bandsaw would be cost effective for this

I would say that unless your saber saw is pretty hefty you will have to
have a lot of patience in order to do all your cutting.  I did some
arc-cutting in 16 gauge mild steel by screwing the work to a board,
drilling a center hole and using a jigsaw and the provided fence/radius
cutter.  It worked well albeit slowly, so yes, you could use a saber.

A bandsaw is probably the true tool of choice for this (depending on the
required accuracy) but it can't cut radii less than the blade width. 
(And if you get a bandsaw, you can even use it later for other projects :-)

If any of your cutting is hole shapes, then you will need a blade
welder too. 

Paul Jones

------
Paul Jones,  Motorola MCG                           [email-masked]
1101 E. University Ave.                             Voice: (217) 384-8529
Urbana, IL 61801, USA                               FAX:   (217) 384-8550

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From: [email-masked] (Pete Bellas)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 15:26:13 GMT

Is it possible to use the same bandsaw for both metal and wood cutting. I
have a fair interest in hobbies in both media and it would be nice if I
didn't need two almost identicle bandsaws side by side. What say ye.
Thanks.

			-Pete-

* Pete Bellas                   "Cogito ergo spud"                         *
* Citicorp/TTI                       I think therefore I yam.              *
* Santa Monica, CA                                                         *
* [email-masked]                                                     *

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From: [email-masked] (Rick Lawrence Dulas)
Date: 11 Mar 1994 11:51:05 -0600

In article <[email-masked]>,
>didn't need two almost identicle bandsaws side by side. What say ye.

I have a 14" Delta with a 1 hp motor to cut wood/plastic/aluminum. It does
all this with a minimum of fuss. The heaviest Al I have cut so far is 1/2"
thick. But for anything lighter it is a breeze. I haven't cut steel yet 'cuz
I got a Sawz-all for my birthday. (and that puppy cuts everything!) ;-)

If you were to get blades specifically for metals, it ought to be real easy.
I'm using regular wood blades right now, but when I graduate I'm looking
forward to a whole suite of blades. ;-)

Hope this helps. Rick

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From: [email-masked] (Joseph Kral)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 17:33:48 GMT

>didn't need two almost identicle bandsaws side by side. What say ye.

Delta sells a model of their 14" bandsaw setup for cutting both metal and wood.
Whats the difference?  The metal/wood version comes with a speed reducer.
When cutting metal, you need a much slower blade speed.  A wood bandsaw
will cut metal fine with the appropriate blade and speed. 

Oh, one more thing; it you're going to be cutting ferrous metal, make sure
you clean out all the saw dust first. No sense in buring down your shop.

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From: [email-masked] (Richard Tweedie)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 19:35:44 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Bruce Johnson) writes:
>In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Pete Bellas) writes:
>>From: [email-masked] (Pete Bellas)
>>Subject: Bandsaws for metal and wood
>>Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 15:26:13 GMT
>
>    Well, you can, but it is an incredible pain in the ass...you'll be 
>swapping blades all the time, and cleaning like you're making a satellite for 
>NASA every time you use it for metal....metal filings and bits do horrible 
>things to wood, and so does cutting oil, which is pretty ubitiquous in a metal 
>shop, and they always seem to appear just in time for that final finish 
>sanding ;-)
>
>
>   
>
>	Bruce Johnson

Well, it depends on the metal.  I use a shopsmith bandsaw for wood and
it works very nicely for Aluminum.  WHen I was desperate and had no
steel cutting bandsaw, I used a worn out wood cutting blade upside
down for friction cutting 4130 chrome moly steel.  This only works
up to about .125 thickness however, it is VERY fast!  

Rich Tweedie

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From: Deirdre Maloy <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 19:12:54 GMT

Speaking from experience, metal filings show up in finished woodwork at
least as often as cutting oil does (you didn't want a waterbased finish
on that, did you? <g>). I was raised in an aluminum shop and always was
getting aluminum something in my woodwork. Also, be sure that your dust
collection system won't choke on metal.

Also, be VERY sure you keep your shop microscopically clean. Wood dust in
the eyes is simply irritating. Metal filings are bad news and you need to
make sure to keep it out of ALL mucous surfaces (eyes, mouth, nose).

I'd second the opinion to have two bandsaws if you do both wood and metal
frequently.

_Deirdre

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From: [email-masked] (Jay Keller)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 09:09:01 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] 

>didn't need two almost identicle bandsaws side by side. What say ye.

Yes.

You need to be able to change the speed of the saw, slower for metal.

Delta sells several saws as metal/wood machines.  One version of the 14"
saw is sold this way and I believe it even has provisions for coolant.

The 16" 3-wheel saw is also a metal/wood model.  It comes with 2 belts 
so it can be switched from high speed to low speed in about 5 minutes or so 
by removing the blade, removing the drive pulley, replacing the other belt,
and installing a metal cutting (usually 14-24 tpi) blade.  The saw is
fairly heavy (over 150 lbs.) and it has a large (16" square) heavy iron
table.  The motor is a 1/2 HP induction type.

This saw has about 8-1/8" height capacity in wood, certainly I wouldn't want
to try cutting 8" thick steel with it. :-)  

It is fitted with a dust-collection port, probably a good idea to use it if
you cut metal as well as wood (or even if you don't).  It's about $410 from
Tools on Sale, I bought mine at Costco for $349.  It comes with a rip fence
and miter gauge.

I haven't had it very long, but so far I like it a lot.  I decided that it
was going to take me quite a while to save up for the 14-incher (more than 
double the price of this one the way I wanted it set up) and I needed
the 8" height capacity to cut bowl blanks for the lathe.  This saw seems very
heavy and well-designed.  Delta kept the cost down by using several clever
design techniques, but they certainly didn't skimp on the weight, the castings
for the frame and table are very massive (the table is larger than the one on
the 14" saw).  It doesn't have the sophisticated trunnions and blade guides
that the 14" saw has, and the wheels run on plain rather than ball bearings.
But the bearings are large and easy to lubricate, so I think they are fine
as long as the owner understands the need to lubricate them (they can be oiled
without removing the cover of the saw. 

By the way, it passes the nickel test.   
-- 
Jay Keller <[email-masked]>                                            
Sunnyvale, California

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From: [email-masked] (Dion Hollenbeck)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 21:35:14 GMT

>>>>> "Pete" == Pete Bellas <[email-masked]> writes:

Pete> Is it possible to use the same bandsaw for both metal and wood cutting. I
Pete> have a fair interest in hobbies in both media and it would be nice if I
Pete> didn't need two almost identicle bandsaws side by side. What say ye.
Pete> Thanks.

All the other posters so far have pretty much addressed the issues
about mixing wood shavings and metal filings.  I won't reiterate,
however, I have separate blades for wood and metal and use no oil for
cutting metals.

I own a 1960's vintage Delta metal/wood cutting 14" bandsaw.  The
difference between it and a purely wood cutting one is that it has
three pulleys and a 5:1 reduction gearbox for three metal cutting
speeds from 100 sfpm (surface feet per minute) to 300 sfpm and the
wood cutting speed is without the gear box and can be 500 to 1500 sfpm
depending on which pulley you set up the wood pulley on.  The wood
setting is a single speed which cannot be changed unless you loosen
the set screw on the 8" pulley and move it on its shaft.  Therefore
you can have 3 wood speeds, but not easily.  The metal cutting pulleys
are cone pulleys so you can have any of the three metal speeds by
easily moving a belt from one to another.

For cutting wood, I can use as small as an 1/8" blade for scroll work,
on up to a hefty 1" 6tpi blade for resawing.  For metal work, I
generally use a 24tpi 1/2" blade.

Every time I have to go from one application to another, I need to
spend about 20 minutes cleaning up and changing blades.  If I had the
money for two bandsaws it would be nice, but I am making do nicely
with what I have.
-- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: [email-masked]
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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From: [email-masked] ()
Date: 15 Mar 1994 15:16:51 GMT

1)Most woodcutting bandsaws run at 3000 SFM or so; for ferrous
  metals you want to be able to go down to 100 SFM or so. Such
  bandsaws are made. A Powermatic 143 is one example, and someone
  earlier posted they had a old Delta. My recollection is that
  Delta's current 'wood/metal' 14 incher has a speed range of
  750-3000, which wouldn't be slow enough for steel. I could be
  off here.
2)You don't really need different blades, or anyway I use mine on
  both wood and metal without problems. It is important to match
  the blade to the job, so you do end up switching blades often.
3)I haven't had any problems switching between wood and metal - I
  just give it a casual vacumn job. I don't use coolant when cutting
  steel - I use some of that waxy stick-lube sold for sawing w/o
  coolant. Leftover sawdust doesn't seem like a fire hazard to me -
  you aren't generating sparks. 

YMMV - it works for me.

---

From: Doug White <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 16:01:28 -0500

> * Citicorp/TTI                       I think therefore I yam.              *

I have to go with the 2 saw approach.  I have a ShopSmith bandsaw that works 
great on wood, and quite well on aluminum (up to a point).  The only problem
is that you get to spend a LOT of time cleaning it after using it on metal
before you can safely use it on any wood that you care much about.  I have 
given up using it on metal, and always take my metal cutting to the college
shop I have access to (one night a week, :( ).

I am in the process of checking out the cheap import horizontal/vertical
metal cutting bandsaws that seem to be everywhere.  A number of people seem 
to like them (there was an article in Home Shop Machinist about building a
better base for one).  They all look very similar, and I'm trying to figure
out if they are all from the same factory (in which case I'll go for best
price and support), or if there is any significant variation in quality.
I have seen them advertised by Grizzly, Enco, MSC, etc.  On sale, with an
import motor, I think I've seen the smallest size for well under $200.  I'd
appreciate hearing any first hand experiences with these things.

------------------------------------------
Doug White
Satellite Communications Technology Group
MIT Lincoln Laboratory
244 Wood St.
Lexington, MA  02173-9108

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From: orf@sgi503 (Orval R. Fairbairn)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 21:13:39 GMT

I use the same bandsaw to cut woof, aluminum, steel, titanuim.
For Al, I use a special stick wax, to lubricate the blade. I have cut 2-1/2"
7075 Al with a 4teeth/in blade this way. It really works!

For steel, Ti, I use a smooth (fine teeth worn down) blade and friction
cut the material. Be careful that you don't catch the Ti on fire, though.

For friction cutting, run the blade at the normal, fast speed.
--
Orval R. Fairbairn  Mtn View, CA  (415) 969-4351 (h)   (408) 756-1473 (ofc) 
1946 Johnson Rocket 185    NC 90204    |           .___.                   .  .
EAA 25947 (life),   Board of Directors:       |        .  |___||>       .      .     :
CA Pilots' Assn,  CRAMP                         <:            . .                    ---
                                                                  |           .  . .. 
                                                                  |

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From: [email-masked] (Bill Moore)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 21:22:59 GMT

Doug White ([email-masked]) wrote:
: 
: I am in the process of checking out the cheap import horizontal/vertical
: metal cutting bandsaws that seem to be everywhere.  A number of people seem 
: to like them (there was an article in Home Shop Machinist about building a
: better base for one).  They all look very similar, and I'm trying to figure
: out if they are all from the same factory (in which case I'll go for best
: price and support), or if there is any significant variation in quality.
: I have seen them advertised by Grizzly, Enco, MSC, etc.  On sale, with an
: import motor, I think I've seen the smallest size for well under $200.  I'd
: appreciate hearing any first hand experiences with these things.
: 

I've used one of these cheap saws for a number of years now, both at home 
for my metal projects, and at our local volunteer fire dept. where I used
it extensively in the fabrication of two fire trucks. It's cut up to 2x6"
x.250 thk mild steel square tubing, and up to 2" mild steel rod. The only
problems I've had are A) the cheap sheet metal base didn't hold up, so I
used the saw to help make a new base out of 1.5" angle iron, and  B) the 
lower wheel bushing has worn to the point that it needs replacing...the 
blade comes off rather easily now when I'm cutting.
If one is only going to use these saws at this level of usage, I beleive
they are a good value. Also, the next level up in quality/price seems to 
be a big jump.