Subject: FAQ part 1 of 8

From: [email-masked] (Jim Kirkpatrick)
Date: 1 Dec 94 12:50:30 MST

This is the FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking.  It is in several pieces
to keep the overall size of each part below the limits imposed by
some news systems.  This is part 1 of 8.

Generally, units below are United States dollars, degrees Fahrenheit,
and all the other silly backwards units we Americans still use.  Sorry.

The questions being answered in part 1:

0.  Where is this FAQ kept, and where are archives of the newsgroup?
1.  The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter.
2.  The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists.
3.  What are some good books and/or video tapes on metalworking?
4.  Who makes good lathes/mills/etc?

The questions being answered in part 2:

5.  Where do I buy a machine?
6.  What are good magazines to subscribe to?
7.  Where might one take classes or get instruction?
8.  Where can I get raw material for my projects?
9.  Where can I get tools, drill bits, etc.?
10. What are some of the related professional/hobby associations?
11. How do I harden/temper metal?
12  How do I wire up this strange motor?
13. How do I deal with mail-order suppliers?
14. How to sharpen knives, chisels, and other tools?
15. Some safety reminders.

The questions being answered in part 3:

16. How do I drill round holes?
17. What's TIG and MIG?
18. MIG welding technique.
19. Which MIG welder should I buy?
20. Books on welding.
21. Soldering/brazing topics.

The questions being answered in part 4:

22. What are bolt grades?
23. What is XYZ made of?
24. How do I build a furnace or forge?
25. What is Damascus steel?
26. How do I repair/replace this old leather belt?

The questions being answered in part 5:

27. Can I use a drill press as a cheap vertical mill?
28. What is involved in building a steam engine?
29. How do I anodize aluminum?
30. Rust!  How do I deal with rust?

The questions being answered in part 6:

31. Are there any machinery museums?
32. How do I cut metal?
33. What kind of oil should I use on my lathe/mill?
34. What are the various tapers (Morse, JT, R8, etc.)?

The questions being answered in parts 7 and 8:

35. What is Electric Discharge Machining (EDM)?
36. Solvent safety
99. Names and addresses of publishers and suppliers
    (OK, so I got tired of re-numbering it every time a new
    question was added!)

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0.  Where is this FAQ kept, and where are archives of the newsgroup?

    This FAQ is also available via anonymous ftp to plains.uwyo.edu,
    in the METAL directory.  I also hope to someday get it posted to
    news.answers and into rtfm.mit.edu, which is where many groups'
    FAQs are kept.

    I also keep an "informal" archive of the newsgroup on plains.uwyo.edu,
    also in the METAL directory.  It's informal in that I only update it
    from time to time, not continuously.

    Plains.uwyo.edu is usually down early Sunday and Monday
    mornings, so if ftp fails then, just try it again later.

1.  The original rec.crafts.metalworking charter.

    A tiny bit of history:  there existed a group trial.rec.metalworking,
    but few sites pick up the "trial" feed.  Also, the trial method of
    group creation sort of died of neglect, so this group
    (rec.crafts.metalworking) was created to take its place and become
    an official wide-spread group.

    Charter
    -------

    Charter -- REC.CRAFTS.METALWORKING

    The USENET newsgroup, rec.crafts.metalworking, is a newsgroup which
    discusses various aspects of working with metal, such as (but not
    limited to):

      machining, as on a lathe, milling machine, grinder, etc.;
      numerical control of such machines;
      welding, whether by gas, arc, mig, tig, thermite, or other methods;
      Metal joining, whether welding, brazing, soldering, riveting,
        screwing, folding, etc.  (this section was added during the discussion)
      casting various metals by various methods;
      hardening/tempering various metals;
      blacksmithing/forging;
      spinning and hammer work;
      sheet metal work;
      jewelry-making;
      purchasing and/or reconditioning metalworking tools and machinery;
      interesting projects;
      books on metal technologies and history;

    Example areas of interest:

      knife/sword making;
      automotive repair;
      steam engine (model/scale, though full-sized discussions are welcome!);
      art work, such as bronze castings and sculptures;
      gunsmithing;
      toolmaking, such as for woodworking, further metalworking, etc.;

    While the bulk of the discussion will probably be directed towards
    small-scale "home" shops, industrial/production discussions are also
    quite welcome.

2.  The CLOCKS bitnet mailing list, and other related lists.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you have access to Bitnet and are interested in clocks/watches,
    there is a CLOCKS list.  Send mail to LISTSERV@SUVM on Bitnet, containing
    the command "SUBSCRIBE CLOCKS your name".  Their "charter" is:

     Welcome to the CLOCKS Listserv list.  This is a new attempt at
     communicating information about clocks between those interested in
     ANY aspect of clocks.  To quote from the header text for CLOCKS:

       *  Clock/Watch Repair, Collecting, and Construction
     
       CLOCKS is a discussion list dealing with any and all aspects of
       clock and watch work.
     
       The list's primary goal is to discuss the collecting,
       construction, and repair of both clocks and watches.  Included
       also are topics on the history of time keeping, wooden movements,
       water clocks, antique and modern clocks, etc.  Of great interest
       is information about suppliers of repair and construction parts
       and techniques, information, books, newsletters, national and
       local associations.  Another interest is the use of clock/watch
       tools, such as the watchmakers lathe, bushing replacement, time
       regulation, etc.
     
       The list welcomes the participation and contribution from anyone
       interested in the subject area, whether an amateur, beginner, or
       professional.

    I can't give you a cookbook approach on how to get to Bitnet if you
    aren't on it.  This varies from site to site, so you should ask your
    system administrator "how do I get e-mail to/from Bitnet?"  As one
    example, at our Internet site, we add ".bitnet" on the end, so for
    us the address would be [email-masked].

    There is also now a clock presence on the World Wide Web (WWW):
      http://glen-ellyn.iit.edu/~clocks/

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A similar newsgroup is alt.horology.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There is also a Usenet newsgroup rec.woodworking that may be of
    interest to people who read rec.crafts.metalworking.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    WWW (World-Wide-Web) users may be interested in Enrique Vega's
    efforts which he calls ArtMetal.  This includes a mailing list
    and a Home Page of:

      http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/edu/arts/metal/ArtMetal.html

    Enrique can be reached at [email-masked].

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A Usenet newsgroup was created around March of 1994, called
    rec.crafts.jewelry.  Some of the questions on rec.crafts.metalworking
    have been jewelry related, such as casting small pieces; these might
    be more appropriate on the new group, or at least you might get more
    answers!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A mailing list for knifemakers, knife collectors, and people interested
    in edged-weaponry martial arts and techniques is the "EDGE" mailing list.
    Requests to be added to this list should be sent to:

      [email-masked]

    Submissions to the list itself should be sent to:

      [email-masked]

    Topics on this list have ranged across topics like discussions of the
    types of steels used in knives, and why select one over another; the
    qualities and selection of different types of pocket tools [such as the
    Gerber Multi-Plier, the Leatherman, the SOG Toolclip, etc.]; current
    sales on knives from mail-order or discount-house sources; why Japanese
    swords are made the way they are/were, and how to take care of such a
    sword; selecting modern reproduction swords for martial-arts purposes;
    and many other edged-weapon and edged-tool subjects.

3.  What are some good books on metalworking?

   - How to Run a Lathe
     South Bend Lathe
     400 W. Sample Street
     South Bend, IN 46625

     This book is available from South Bend distributors,
     such as Blue Ridge, and/or Lindsay.  It was originally printed
     in 1914 and last updated in 1966, I believe.

   - Advanced Machine Work by Robert H. Smith (1925).   This book
     is not as "advanced" as the title might indicate, but assumes
     that you are not a total beginner.   Available from Lindsay
     Publications (Cat. No 4236, $27.50, hardcover).

   - Machine Tool Operation, Vol. 1 & 2, by Henry Burghardt,
     Aaron Axelrod & James Anderson. These books were for many years
     the standard text in trade schools and technical colleges.  Volume
     one covers the basics: safety, measuring, bench work, drill press,
     lathe and forge.  Volume two covers: shaper, planer, milling
     machine, grinding, hydraulics, band saw, metallurgy, and
     cutting fluids.  Your best source for these is a used book
     store or a technical school library.   They overlap much of
     "Advanced Machine Work", but neither is a complete substitute
     for the other.

   - Materials Handbook by George S. Brady (McGraw-Hill Book Co.)
     "An encyclopedia for purchasing managers, engineers, executives,
     and foremen".  Essentially, it gives an "executive summary" of
     virtually every material that is valuable in commerce.   For
     instance, there is a two-page entry for "Die Steels".  It is not
     aimed at the scientist or engineer;  it is aimed at the person
     who needs to quickly understand the important characteristics
     and economics of industrial materials without involvement
     in details.  It does cover a lot of non-metal materials as well.

   - Machine-Tool Work, by William P Turner and Halsey F Owen.
     1932 and 1945 (hence no ISBN number).  Some libraries may still have
     a copy, though you're probably out of luck for a purchase.

     Moderately good text, very good diagrams and pictures, especially
     of huge special-purpose machines like railroad wheel grinders.
     Suffers a bit from age, and seems intended for large industrial
     shops, but a good read if you find it.

   - Machine Shop Theory and Practice, by Albert M Wagener and Harlan R Arthur.
     1941 (hence no ISBN number).  Some libraries may still have a copy,
     though you're probably out of luck for a purchase.

     Fairly good text, more specific techniques than the Turner/Owen book.
     Suffers a bit from age, but still a nice instructional book.

   - Lathe Operations, by Richard R. Kibbe.
     1985, ISBN 0-471-89023-5.
     Adapted from materials originally prepared by the Engineering Industry
     Training Board of Great Britain.  Also in the same series: Milling
     Machine Operations, and Grinding Machine Operations.

     A step-by-step text with about 2 photos and lots of simple but
     usually-clear drawings.  Shows how to do most any common lathe
     operation (and a few uncommon ones) in as few words as possible.

     Check page 90 for what seems to be a man with two right hands.

  -  Machine Tool Practices, by Kibbe,Neely, Meyer and White
     It's the first year machine shop text used by some community colleges.

   - The Making of Tools, by Alexander G Weygers
     Prentice Hall Press, 1973, ISBN 0-671-60924-6
     A modern book about doing things the old way.  How the artist/craftsperson
     can design, make, sharpen and temper tools.  May be available from
     Centaur Forge.

   - Machinery's Handbook
     A standard reference book for machinists, available from most
     distributors of machines or tools.

   - Clockmaking & Modelmaking; tools and techniques
     by W.R. Smith

     Mr. Smith has published other books on clockmaking, but this one
     covers more than just clocks, and is thus of interest to more than
     just clock-makers.  This is a collection of articles from the
     British Horological Journal, Timecraft, Model Engineer, and
     Horological Times.  The articles have been updated and expanded
     for inclusion in this 112-page coil-bound book.

     For a complete review, see HSM Jan/Feb 1992, page 14.

     Available from Gateway Clocks (see names/addresses section),
     $27 post-paid within USA (overseas buyers add $5 for postage).

   - Elmer's Engines, by Elmer Verberg
     available from Modeltec
     Has many very nice, and fairly easy to build stationary steam engines.

   - Model Locomotive and Marine Boilers
     [Argus Press, 1988, ISBN 0-85242-923-1]

     by Martin Evans (well known in the Model Engineering field, at least in
     Great Britain)

   - The Shop Wisdom of Frank McLean
     available from Village Press (the HSM folks)
     
     Lots of good ideas, and common sense approaches, and the few pages
     about inspecting used machines is worth its weight in gold for first
     time buyers.

   - THE MACHINIST'S BEDSIDE READER
     Guy Lautard
     2570 Rosebery Avenue
     West Vancouver, B.C., Canada V7V 2Z9

     (Guy's books are also available from other suppliers, such as MSC)

     Contains: Working drawings and detailed instructions for making 15
     useful and practical machinists tools and lathe accessories; dozens of
     hints, tips and tricks to help get things done faster, easier and
     better in your shop; a collection of 2 dozen machine shop anecdotes;
     2 highly readable machinists short stories.
     Projects include: a sharpening jig for drill from 1/8 to #60, a
     swiveling base for a 2" Wilton vise, a graduated handwheel for
     the lathe leadscrew.........and many more

     THE MACHINIST'S SECOND BEDSIDE READER
     Similar in format to the first book; projects include: a small
     pantograph engraving machine, a tool maker's block, poor man's
     jig borer and a kerosene-burning blowtorch....... also a short
     story titled "The Bullseye Mixture" which details the method for
     barbon pack color casehardening.

     THE MACHINIST'S THIRD BEDSIDE READER
     Some of the projects/info: color casehardening, a co-ax indicator,
     a collet chuck system, a deluxe overhaul of a keyless drill chuck,
     sharpening tools, sandblasting, setting up work on a faceplate,
     taper turning, knurling flat surfaces, and more.

     "A Treatise on Oiling Machine Tools"
     Very small (25 pages), very costly ($7.95), and not much useful
     information according to Tom Walter.  One useful warning is to not
     use way oils in a milling machine's centralized oiling system, as
     some of them contain wax which will clog the system.

     Other books and plans by Lautard (not a complete list):
     "Hey Tim, I gotta tell ya....' a mini Bedside Reader"
     "3.75' Diameter Ungeared Rotary Table"
     "Universal Sleeve Clamp"

     Lautard's targeted readership seems to be the home machinist.  I'm
     sure that much of what he has to say may be "old hat" to a skilled
     machinist with many years experience.  I confess that I am a rank
     amateur in machine shop practice (my only professional experience was
     as a part-time helper in a gunsmith shop where the machine I got to know
     best was the polishing wheel). The flyer I quote from is available from
     Lautard at the address I gave with my last posting.

     [reviews and typing courtesy of Michael Gordon, except for the description
     of the third bedside reader.  JK]

     It has also been reported that Guy sells an index of some sort, either
     of all projects or all articles, in the back issues of Model Engineer.
     However, the index is reportedly hard to use.  See the description of
     Model Engineer, elsewhere.

   - Machine Tool Reconditioning, by Connelly

     Covers reconditioning of machine tools, including figuring out
     what's off on lathes and such.  Also a good section on scraping
     (i.e. removing small areas of metal by scraping, such as making
     a plate very flat).  Mostly deals with reconditioning ways, and
     does not spend much time on mechanical problems such as worn nuts
     or gears.

   - The Surface Treatment and Finishing of Aluminum and its Alloys,
     Edited by S. Wernick, R. Pinner, and P.G. Sheasby.  Published
     1987 by ASM International, Metals Park, Ohio.  2 volumes.

     Mentioned in sci.materials in response to a "how do I anodize aluminum"
     question.

   - Electroplating for the Amateur, by L. Warburton.
     Model & Allied Publications
     Available via Argus (see names & addresses section)

     Also mentioned, in rec.crafts.metalworking, regarding anodizing.

   - Machine Tool Practices, fourth edition, John Wiley and Sons.

     Covers a lot of ground and is the first-year book at DeAnza College.

   - Machine Shop Practice, second editions, volumes 1 and 2
     by K.H. Moltrecht.  Published by Industrial Press, Inc.
     ISBN ISBN 0-8311-1126-7 and ISBN 0-8311-1132-1 (vol 1, vol 2)

     Preface: "It is written for the beginner, as well as for the more
     advanced craftsman, technician, and manufacturing engineers."
     "...designed for use in the classroom or for home study,..."
     (about $20 each)

   - The Home Machinist's Handbook, by Doug Briney  (c)1983
     $17.95  [TAB Books] ISBN 0-8306-1573-3 (paperback)

     Basic... Reading prints, measurements, hand tools, bench tools, the
     lathe & operation, the milling machine & operation.  Projects using
     the Sherline machine system.

   - Machinists' Ready Reference, 7th edition (c)1989 [Prakken Publications,
     Inc], Compiled by Clarence Weigartner, ISBN 0-911168-74-5
     7th edition: $12.50/$10.00(schools), new 8th edition: $14.50

     Pocket sized (4.5" x 6").  Good student guide to math, drills, tapers,
     threads, milling/turning speeds, gears, weights & reading shop prints.
     Sort of a "poor man's Machinery's Handbook".

   - The Starrett Book for Student Machinists (c)1941, 1975 & 1982 [160 pages]
     Catalog #1700 @ $8.50

     Drawing, fits, bench work, how to measure, cutting speed/fluids,
     drilling, lathe operations, grinding, sawing, toolmaking, geometry,
     mechanics, & reference tables.  Good information, well worth the price.
     It covers screw cutting, via the lathe, better than most.  Be sure to
     get the FREE Starrett information, "single copy mailed to individual
     craftsmen."  Decimal Equivalent Card (pocket size 3" x 5"); The
     Starrett Story (36 pages 4-5/8" x 6-7/8"); The Tools and Rules for
     Precision Measuring, Bulletin #1211 (80 pages 5-1/4" x 7-5/8")

   - Watch Making, by George Daniels.

   - De Re Metallica (Georgius Agricola, 1556) translated by Herbert Hoover
   - Pirotechnia (Vannoccio Biringuccio, 1540) translated by Smith & Gnudi

     These two are Dover reprints, and were state-of-the art from renaissance
     through perhaps 1850 or so.  The first is on mining, and the second on
     metalworking.  An interesting historical look at how things were done
     in earlier times, and why they thought it worked.

   - Computational Geometry for Design and Manufacture
     Copyright 1979, I.D.Faux, M.J. Pratt
     Ellis Horwood Publishers, a division of John Wiley & Sons.
     ISBN 0-85312-114-1

     Very good overall text on surfaces and design.  Was recommended
     as a way of learning strange jargon used in CNC machining of surfaces,
     such as loft, nurbs, and coons.

   --------------------------------------------------------------------

   The following suggested books pertain to jewelry-making, per Sherry Lem.

     The Complete Metalsmith
     Tim McCreight
     Davis Publications, Inc.
     Worcester, MA, 1991
     Excellent, easy to follow techniques for beginning to intermediate levels,
     this is the revised edition which is much improved over the original.

     Contemporary Jewelry
     Philip Morton
     Holt, Rinehart & Winston
     NY, 1970, 1976
     Interesting design philosophy, techniques.

     Design and Creation of Jewelry
     Robert vonNeumann
     Chilton
     Radnor, PA, 1961, 1972

     Form Emphasis for Metalsmiths
     Heikki Seppa
     Kent State University Press
     Kent, OH 1978
     Perhaps THE book on anticlastic raising/forming, though difficult to
     teach yourself from the pictures and instructions.

     Jewelry Concepts and Technology
     Oppi Untracht
     Doubleday & Company
     Garden City, NY, 1982, 1985
     Most comprehensive guide on jewelry making techniques, 
     also contains gemological data, info on setting up a workshop .

     Jewelry: Contemporary Design and Technique
     Chuck Evans
     Davis Publications
     Worcester, MA, 1983
     Especially good sections on mixed metals (mokume gane, etc.).

     Jewelry Making and Design
     Augustus F. Rose and Antonio Cirino
     Dover Publications, Inc.
     NY, 1949, 1967
     Decidedly English flavor, very inexpensively priced.

     Jewelry Making Manual
     Sylvia Wicks
     Brymorgen Press
     Cape Elizabeth, ME, 1986
     Beautiful color photos, good technique instructions.

     Jewelry Manufacture and Repair
     Charles Jarvis
     Bonanza, NY, 1978

     Metal Sculpture - New Forms New Techniques
     John Lynch
     The Viking Press
     NY, NY
     Basic art metal techniques.

     Metal Techniques for Craftsmen
     Oppi Untracht
     Doubleday & Company
     Garden City, NY, 1968

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   How about video tapes?

  -  New Life Video Productions

     Several tapes with Rudy Kouhoupt, frequent author in HSM and
     other magazines.  Titles such as:
        "Fundamentals of Machine Lathe Operation"
        "Fundamentals of Milling Machine Operations"
        "How to Cut Spur Gears"
        "How to Cut Screw Threads"
        "Building a Sterling Hot Air Engine"
     Price varies from tape to tape.  Production qualities
     seem poor (based on viewing the first title), such as poor
     and inconsistent audio, including a radio playing in the background.
     But you can safely ignore this and concentrate on what Rudy is
     trying to show you.  Seems reasonably priced for the material
     covered.  The material is quite good for the beginner ("I just
     got a verical mill; how do I use it?"), or perhaps even the advanced
     beginner.  These are probably tapes you will watch once or twice,
     so it would be nice if you could rent instead of purchase them!
     Most of them seem to focus on making a simple but useful project
     while presenting the material.

  -  Bailey Craftsman Supply

     "Greensand Casting Techniques" from David Gingery's workshop.
     HSM seemed to like it.  Others include a second volume of the
     above, Basic Metal Lathe Operation (2 vol), Basic Milling Machine
     Operation.

  -  Darrell Markewitz, Wareham Forge

     "A 3 hour instructional VIDEO - $25.oo each (includes postage)"

     "This video contains a wealth of information, including what to look for
     in used tools, building a home shop, and demonstrations of a number of
     basic forming techniques."

     PART 1 - TOOLS     forges / lighting a fire / coal
              anvils / hammers / vises / safety

     PART 2 - TECHNIQUES     'S' hooks / tent peg / fire poker
                   twists / toasting fork / home forge

     the WAREHAM FORGE
     Hamlet of Wareham - RR #2
     Proton Stn Ont, CDN -  N0C 1L0
     (519) 923-9219, [email-masked]

  -  Quality Street Productions

     The Fourth Annual NAMES Expo  (1993)

  -  Starrett

     Tools and Rules for Precision Measuring

  -  Colonial Williamsburg
     P.O. Box C
     Williamsburg, VA  23187

     Tapes are also available from:

     KVC Entertainment
     P.O. Box 40276
     Indianapolis, IN  46240-0276

     CW produces several tapes on blacksmithing, silversmithing, gunsmithing,
     and so on.  They show the "old time" way of doing things, but are
     reported to be excellent.

4.  Who makes good lathes/mills/etc?

    Who makes good cars?  This is almost purely a personal preference,
    though in general the imported machines (Grizzly, Jet, Enco) seem
    to rate lower than US-built machines (South Bend, Bridgeport).  However,
    the imports are usually MUCH less expensive, offsetting some of the
    quality issues for home shops.  It has also been reported that South
    Bend has been going "downhill" lately.

    There is some indication that Grizzly equipment is slightly better
    than other "Taiwanese" machines.

    One of the main complaints about Taiwanese machinery is the lack of
    replacement parts and service.  Grizzly claims that they keep a supply
    of parts on hand for all their machines.  The same factories appear to
    turn out Grizzly, Jet, Delta, and the "no-name" machinery.  A few years
    ago Fine Woodworking magazine published an article on this subject.

    Unimats are sometimes considered "toys" rather than real machines,
    though they may do just what you want if you don't push them hard.
    The Unimat PC may be a nice small CNC lathe; any experiences?

    Unimat, Sherline, and Taig are "micro lathes" in that the swing over the
    bed is less than 5 inches, and the bed is about a foot long.  Sherline
    and Taig are made in the US, and Unimat is made in Austria (and hence
    uses metric threads, e.g. in the spindle thread, which may be a pain
    to US buyers).  Sherline and Taig both use 3/4 inch x 16 threads in the
    spindle and can thus interchange accessories*.  The Taig cannot cut
    threads, while the Sherline and Unimat can (with accessories).  Sherline
    and Unimat sell a milling add-on.  The Taigs come in unbundled kit form
    where you have to buy everything; they claim an overall accuracy of
    .0004 inch and have excellent parts and service, and also sell a
    watchmaking headstock.  Taig is the cheapest at about $250 to get
    started, about $450 for Sherline.  It appears the only Unimat now
    being sold is the CNC "Unimat PC", at about $750.  Unimat seems to
    charge quite a bit more than normal for accessories.  Just keep in
    mind that these are not as rigid or powerful as full-sized lathes.

    * It has been reported that although the Taig and Sherline use a 3/4-16
    spindle thread, the threads on Taig chucks and faceplates are recessed
    far enough that a Sherline lathe will only grab about 1.5 threads, not
    enough to be usable.  However, one reader bored out the back of a
    Taig faceplate to 1" diameter for about 1/4" depth, and reports it
    threads on his Sherline quite well now.  So, be careful if purchasing
    a Taig accessory for use on a Sherline lathe!

    Harbor Freight sells a "precision 4x10" mini-lathe for around $700
    with autofeed, change gears for most english threads at extra cost.
    It is actually a 7" lathe which takes standard 2MT tailstock tooling
    and 3/8" cutting tools, and has Electronic Variable Speed (EVS)
    instead of changeable belts.  This is larger and sturdier than the
    Unimat/Sherline/Taig, and sounds similar to the 8" Grizzly except
    for the EVS.

    What can you do if you have little money?  Aside from looking at used
    equipment, you can actually build a lathe and other machine tools.
    Dave Gingery wrote an excellent series of books on building your own
    machine tools with just hand tools.  While it's a lot of work, you
    can learn a lot.  First you make an aluminum charcoal foundry, then
    a lathe, and finish up with a dividing head (five or six books later).
    Other authors have published detailed plans for making lathes.  See
    the publisher's catalogs from Lindsay, Cole's, Power Model, Tee,
    and Argus.

    A very thorough discussion of vertical mills and what to look for
    was in Home Shop Machinist, July/August and September/October 1993.

    ........................................

    The following comments, regarding the Central Machinery (Harbor
    Freight Salvage) "Precision 7"x10" Mini Lathe", were originally
    sent to John Kopf in response to a query of his, asking the
    opinions of this versus the Grizzley 8x18 lathe.

    Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 09:40:15 CST
    From: <[email-masked]>

    I own a 7 x 10 mini-lathe offered by Harbor Freight.  First, the
    good points.  Compact size useful for relatively large turnings...easy
    to move/store....tight headstock bearings....nice 3-jaw Yamakawa (japanese)
    chuck....good cross-feed and compound feed...good accuracy overall...
    Mt2 tailstock compatability...fun to use...3/4" hole in spindle....
    quiet without feed engaged....relatively easy to set-up tooling...
    cuts threads.....has chip tray...uses cheap 3/8 tooling.

    Now for the down side....motor on mine with a Dremel speed control
    substituted for the factory setup has good high-speed power but is
    lacking in low-speed torque....my set-up produces surges of rpm 
    occasionally... newer version appear to have 2-speed setup that may help...
    HF parts supply is limited....I could not get jaws for the chuck (I need
    inside gripping because they were missing..used equipment!)...feed
    screw is poorly mounted/designed and uses up a lot of available
    power.....split nut on carriage is prone to disengage...the motor is
    120V DC fed by a rectifier and that may be part of my problem..
    manual carriage feed wheel/mechanism is not smooth and perhaps
    needs bushed.

    Overall, I love it because I bought it used needing some repairs
    for $95.  Enco in Chicago now offers it for $1000.  They are more
    reputable than HF IMHO.  They also cannot provide my jaws or a
    specifically designed 4-jaw.  If I paid $800 I would want the
    split-nut and RPM/POWER problems completely eliminated.  After
    my initial $95, I have spent about $65 for a live center and tools
    from Enco.  I use it weekly and am learning a lot.  A friend who
    is a lathe operator has used it and is impressed.  I hope this helps.
    If you buy one and find solutions/parts, keep me posted.

         Gordon Pari

    Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 14:48:23 -0800
    From: Greg Saville <[email-masked]>

    Just one comment, if you end up ordering the Harbor Freight one, DON'T 
    order the $43.00 threading gear set.  Though it's not clear in the 
    catalog, it already DOES come with the lathe (unless you order the 
    ~$550 version that says "same as above, but without threading 
    capability.") ...

    I've enjoyed the lathe, have been pretty happy with it, but have no 
    other experience to be able to compare it to any other like the Grizzly
    you're also looking at.

    Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 14:18:01 EST
    From: [email-masked]

    I purchased one of these mini-lathes this summer.

    Since then I have read a few books and learned much about lathes.

    If I had to do it over again I would purchase the Grizzly "8"x18" Lathe 
    you mentioned.  I kinda like the mini-lathe for 1) the size and 2)
    the variable speed motor.  What I don't like is 1) Support (I had
    a bent shaft on my cross slide and called them back within 48 hours
    after receiving the lathe and I still haven't received the replacement
    part - I think they ordered it from Korea.), 2)  It is sufficiently 
    non-standard that Nobody makes a 4 jaw chuck for it or any other
    bolt on accessories such as a steady rest or a follow rest.

    But it seems to work and I have been having fun with it and learning.
    The size is great - I just finished cutting about 50 brass port holes
    for a model tub boat.