Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with Hydrogen/Oxygen welding equip?

From: [email-masked] (James Kirkpatrick)
Date: 21 Oct 94 17:46:20 MDT

Actually, such torches have been discussed here before (no, it's not
yet a Frequently Asked Question!).  For example, November 22 1993:
-----------------------------------------------------
From: Jim Jaskie <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Small Torches for Silversmithing

Since I haven't seen anyone comment on a type of torch that I think is
the absolute best, I'll throw my three cents in (inflation).

We have a small torch that uses Hydrogen and Oxygen for the fuel.  These
gases are supplied by a small box with a water tank and some electrodes
that electrolyze the water.

The flame, while small, puts out an astonishing amount of heat.  And it
is very, very, clean.  It is clear that in a normal Carbon based (Butane,
Propane, Acetylene, ...)  gas there is some contamination, however
slight, that hinders the wetting of silver solder and other brazes.  With
the Hydrogen/Oxygen torch, the wetting is much nicer, smoother, and
easier.  We have brazed many things with the torch that were almost
impossible with a MAPP gas/Oxygen torch from the local home center.  The
flame is almost invisible.  It has none of the bright yellow (from Sodium
impurities) that makes working in regular flames almost impossible (at
least without duodymium glasses) or any of the Carbon soot incandescence
that also lights up most flames.  There are also no pollutants formed to
stink up the lab, as the combustion products are just water, not those
dreadful black angels from acethylene/air, or less visible ones from
other gases.

The frosting, if you will, is that we don't have gas cylinders sitting
around leaking away.  Those things always bother me a little, because
they seem to be waiting to turn a small disaster like a fire into a large
catastrophe like an explosion.  With this H2/O2 torch, you just flip off
the power (it uses 110v out of an ordinary outlet).  You also never run
out, as long as there is water near by and you've paid the electric bill.
 At any rate, highly recommended, the right way to do a small torch.
----------------------------------------------------
This stirred quite a few questions about who makes it and so on.

From: [email-masked] (Neil R. Marsh)
Subject: H2O2 Torch questions!?

        SWest (10803 Composite Drive, Dallas, TX 75220, 214/350-4011)
offers the Rey Hydroflux.  The Hydroflux Welder offered by Rio Grande
Albuquerque (6901 Washington NE, Albuquerque, NM  87109, 800/545-6566)
appears to be the same unit.  Both are priced at just under $1,000 in
the catalogs I have here (a year or two old).
------------------------------------------------------
There was a bit of discussion about how these things *probably* work
and how a person *might* make one.  Regarding the real thing, and the
one-tube construction:

From: [email-masked] (Jim Berilla)
Subject: Re: H2O2 welder

A friend of mine has such a torch.  I forget the name of the manufacturer,
but the list price is about $1200.  A few comments about it that I haven't
seen here yet:

It uses a single electrolysis chamber, with the hydrogen and oxygen collecting
mixed above the water + potasium hydroxide electrolyte.  The manufacturer
claims that the chamber is strong enough to withstand an explosion of the
gasses in the chamber.  The chamber is made of about 3/8" thick stainless
steel.  The power supply cycles on and off to maintain pressure.

The gasses are carried from the generator to the torch with a single 1/4"
ID PVC tube.  The tube on his is apparently the original tube, and doesn't
seem to be the anti-static variety (which has a black stripe running along
the side).

There is no way to control the mixture.  The flow is regulated by a knob
on the torch handle.

It is very nice to use.  A dream on small work.
-------------------------------------------------
One lucky person tried to lash together an experimental setup, using
a glass bottle to generate H2.  It backfired and blew, luckily only
blowing the cork out instead of showering him with glass slivers!

There was also some discussion on whether this type of welding might
cause hydrogen embrittlement, and/or whether the article being welded
might react with the hot water vapor produced.

The whole discussion can be followed, though with some difficulty, by
grabbing the 1993 archive file from plains.uwyo.edu, /METAL/METAL.93
and look for the word "hydrogen" (case-insensitive).  Unfortunately
the discussion used several different Subject: threads.

This is not meant to discourage further discussion!

Jim

---

From: [email-masked] (Andrew Vida-Szucs)
Date: 24 Oct 1994 20:51:03 GMT

Vince Miller writes:
> MIchael E Hughes writes:

> >I have a small (lab size ~100 liter/hr) Hydrogen / Oxygen gas generator 
> >made by Brown's Gas International in Encino CA. It electrolyzes water into 
> >H2 and O2 in one chamber - out a single hose to the torch. It has some
> 
> I don't see how this could work.  A single hose, a single chamber with the 
> exact right proportion of O2 and H2 in it.  Why does the flame stay at the 
> tip and not blow the whole works up?

	I was wondering this myself.  There must be valving in the torch
	to prevent this from happening.  The torches I have used had two
	supply lines as far as I remember.  How they actually separate
	the gases I have no idea of.

	They burn very hot and while the tips are small, you can burn craters
	in the surface of gold/silver (if only small ones) fairly easily.
	They are very clean though, which is what I like about them most.

	-Andy V.	[email-masked]		(Mr. X)

	"I have a high art; I hurt with cruelty those who damage me."

						-Archilochus, 650 BC