Subject: Re: Penny Bronze

From: [email-masked] (James Kirkpatrick)
Date: 28 Feb 95 08:40:11 MST

In article <[email-masked]>, Dave Pushic <[email-masked]> writes:
|>Anyone have any experience with using pre-1982 pennies as a 
|>source of metal for small bronze castings?

I'm not sure US pennies are a very good bronze alloy or not:

  1959-1962: 95% copper, 5% tin and zinc (bronze, brass, and/or a mix)
  1962-1982: 95% copper, 5% zinc  (i.e. brass, not bronze)
  1982 and up: 97.5% zinc, 2.5% copper (totals; the core is 99.2% zinc
         and .8% copper, with a pure copper plating)

The earlier pennies are 3.11 grams, the zinc ones are 2.5 grams.  Since
they made both types in 1982, you could separate them by weighing.  You might
be able to control the alloy by mixing 1963-1981 pennies with 1983 and later
pennies, but you'd still get brass, not bronze.

Though "brass" and "bronze" are imprecise terms, generally speaking
brass is copper + zinc while bronze is copper + tin, though they both
have other elements in practical alloys.

This is also a moderately expensive way to get raw material, and unless
done for specific purposes is considered defacing money which is a crime
but I've never heard of anybody who got in trouble for it.

Jim

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 16:46:01

In article <[email-masked]> Dave Pushic <[email-masked]> writes:
>[email-masked]>

>Anyone have any experience with using pre-1982 pennies as a 
>source of metal for small bronze castings?

    Sure, I use them all the time.(I just toss all my pennies into a jar and 
then sort by date so I can use the zinc for other purposes).  I'm not sure of 
the exact mixture of the alloy in pennies so I just treat them as copper 
rather than bronze, but haven't had any trouble melting or casting them.
:======:
:The preceding has been a commentary on the world:
:by Copper Squirrel AKA [email-masked]: 
:All opinions are mine, not yours or anybody else:
:ARS GRATIA VITAE:

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From: Dave Pushic <[email-masked]>
Date: 27 Feb 1995 14:47:52 GMT

DP

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From: [email-masked] (Michael Justice)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 03:52:57 GMT

>This is also a moderately expensive way to get raw material, and unless

No, the reason they made the switch to nearly all zinc was because copper
now costs more than a penny for the amount needed to make a penny.

>done for specific purposes is considered defacing money which is a crime

Definitely not true.  Federal law prohibits altering currency in such a way
as to "change" its value -- i.e., counterfeiting -- but does not in any way
prohibit you from melting pennies, squashing them on railroad tracks, using
$100 bills to light cigars, or nickel-plating a WWII all-matching-numbers
artillery Luger with "available materials" (yeesh -- yeah, saw one, sorry).

Anyone in Oklahoma can find the relevant statute listed on the front of the
penny-forming machines in the J.M. Davis Gun Museum (on the road between Tulsa
and OKC).  (Drop in a penny and two quarters, the machine spits out a smashed
penny with a quote squished onto its face, and keeps the quarters.  I still
have my ex-penny around here somewhere. :-)

>but I've never heard of anybody who got in trouble for it.

You won't, unless they nickel-plate one and stamp it with "5c". :-)

>Jim

			-- Michael.
-- 
Michael A. Justice
[email-masked]
Member, Libertarian Party
"Beer Brewer, Patriot"

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 16:31:59

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (James Kirkpatrick) writes:
>Path:
 Brass is 30% -40% zinc.  Copper alloyed with 10% tin or zinc is bronze or 
"jeweler's " bronze.

>but I've never heard of anybody who got in trouble for it.

Actually that law has been changed.  Since the US Mint no longer produces 
coins in precious metals the law became obselete and was revised first in 1968 
to eliminate smelting coins from coverage.  Mess with a dollar bill and you've 
got counterfeiting charges.  Coins make no difference to anyone.

As for expense, 1983+ pennies are about the same as raw zinc for cost and come 
in a much more manageable size( what do I need 10 kilos of zinc for?).  The 
same for copper/bronze.  And I don't go looking for them.  They just 
accumulate.  So I keep them in a jar until needed.
:======:
:The preceding has been a commentary on the world:
:by Copper Squirrel AKA [email-masked]: 
:All opinions are mine, not yours or anybody else:
:ARS GRATIA VITAE:

---

From: [email-masked] (James Kirkpatrick)
Date: 3 Mar 95 08:29:05 MST

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Michael Justice) writes:
|>No, the reason they made the switch to nearly all zinc was because copper
|>now costs more than a penny for the amount needed to make a penny.

I wasn't talking about the cost to manufacture, I was talking about the
cost of obtaining brass/bronze by melting pennies as opposed to buying
or scavenging from other sources.  But you are essentially correct about
the reason they changed the composition.

|>>done for specific purposes is considered defacing money which is a crime
|>
|>Definitely not true.  Federal law prohibits altering currency in such a way
|>as to "change" its value -- i.e., counterfeiting -- but does not in any way
|>prohibit you from melting pennies, squashing them on railroad tracks, using
|>$100 bills to light cigars, or nickel-plating a WWII all-matching-numbers
|>artillery Luger with "available materials" (yeesh -- yeah, saw one, sorry).

As was pointed out earlier, the law I was remembering was repealed a few
years ago.  With or without that law, there was an exception that allowed
processing of money for jewelry, but the old law didn't want people defacing
or melting it.  That's why the penny-mashers were/are legal.

Jim