Subject: Re: Need source for toy soldier metal

From: [email-masked] (John E. Taylor III)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 12:43:22 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] wrote:

> Just don't do like the fellow in Seattle who
> tried to cast silver bullets in an aluminum bullet mold.....

Not only melted his good bullet mold, but I bet he never did get that
werewolf!

--
John Taylor    (W3ZID)     |  "The opinions expressed are those of the
[email-masked] |   writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company."

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 17:29:36

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (John E. Taylor III) writes:
>Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 12:43:22 -0500
>From: [email-masked] (John E. Taylor III)
>Subject: Re: Need source for toy soldier metal

>Not only melted his good bullet mold, but I bet he never did get that
Not to mention the extremely colorful and loud expletives used by his wife 
for ruining her table and floor....I was raised by a longshoreman and I never
heard some of the expressions she used.
The preceding has been a commentary on the world by Copper Squirrel
[email-masked]  All opinions are mine, not yours or anybody else's.
ARS GRATIA VITAE

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From: [email-masked] (John Kopf)
Date: 11 Jan 1995 05:28:35 GMT

How about ordinary lead-tin solder?

JK

Vance Bass ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Rick Christopher) writes:
: >Does anyone have experience buying from a supplier of tin or other 
: >suitable metal for casting toy soldiers or miniatures? 

: How about lead-free pewter?  MicroMark has several grades (diff. melting pts)
: for $15 per pound.  My friend who casts military figures uses melted down
: tire weights (mostly lead, with some tin and antimony according to a long
: thread here last year).  He thinks you might be able to get pewter from your
: local scrap metals dealers, too.

: Insert the usual cautions about working with lead here.
: -- 
: =-=-=All the above are OFFICIAL POSITIONS and are ABSOLUTELY TRUE!=-=-=
: Vance Bass                    	  	  Reply-to: [email-masked]
: "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that certain je ne sais quoi."
: 						   -- Peter Schickele

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From: [email-masked] (David Adams)
Date: 11 Jan 95 13:54:47 CST

Dave Gingery suggests that one start molding with pot metal.  He says:

"Zink die casting metal is generally called pot metal.  
It is used to make thousands of items for automobiles,
machines and appliances.  It does not enjoy the
reputation it deserves because it is generally used
in die castings of very thin section.  Some alloys,
such as Zamak, are actually stronger than iron in 
some respects.  It is one of the handiest materials 
you will find for home castings.  Its salvage value
is just about a penny a pound, so you can't hope to
find a cheaper material.  It's worth noting that 
much of what you buy in home workshop equipment is made of 
die castings with very thin sections.  The material works 
very well in green sand molds, and there is no reason why 
we cant use it to make our own parts in heavier sections 
for greater strength and durability.  It will be superior to 
aluminum for some items."

Ok, so where do I get the stuff.  If I am tearing apart
old car parts or other junk what do I look for?  Or is
it easier than that?  Can I just find the stuff at some
supply place for pennies a pound???

The book seems to indicate that I can melt the stuff
in an old unused skillet over a propane stove.  I don't
need a furnace?

---
	-David  [email-masked]

-- 
	-David  [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Barry Wolinetz)
Date: 12 Jan 95 10:49:50 -0500

David Adams ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Dave Gingery suggests that one start molding with pot metal.  He says:

: "Zink die casting metal is generally called pot metal.  
: It is used to make thousands of items for automobiles,
: machines and appliances.  It does not enjoy the
.       <SNIP>

: Ok, so where do I get the stuff.  If I am tearing apart
: old car parts or other junk what do I look for?  Or is
: it easier than that?  Can I just find the stuff at some
: supply place for pennies a pound???

: The book seems to indicate that I can melt the stuff
: in an old unused skillet over a propane stove.  I don't
: need a furnace?

: ---
: 	-David  [email-masked]

I got about twenty pounds of it from a local aluminum recycling place.
They buy all non ferrous metals.  Once you see what it is, you will begin
to recognize it as very common.  Cheap padlocks, EMT fittings, cheap lock
cylinders etc etc.

It will melt over a propane burner but I had a heck of a time trying to get
a smooth looking casting using pot metal in a sand mold.  It seems that the
molten metal would creep between the grains of sand giving me a rough
finish.  I had planned on using a mold wash of molasses and water to seal the
mold, but never got around to trying it.  I did not have the rough finish
problem with aluminum, so never used a mold wash!.

I used the charcoal furnace to melt pot metal, I would run up the heat with
the fan, turn off the fan and let the metal sit till it melted (it took too
long on the little camp stove I was using).

Good luck and happy melting

Barry
--

Barry Wolinetz                       My opinions, Only!  I would not
The Northern Trust Co                claim to speak for my employer in 
Chicago, Il                          most matters discussed here!

Give some kid(s) a break, Be a Foster Parent!

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 18:16:09

>supply place for pennies a pound???

Well, sort of.  Save your pennies.  Most of them after 1983 are zince with
a very thin copper plating.  I like to melt them down with a propane torch 
and use for casting.  Looks a great deal like silver when polished and 
doesn't tarnish easily.

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From: [email-masked] (Barry Workman)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 04:19:35 GMT

[email-masked] writes:

>In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Rick Christopher) writes:
>>From: [email-masked] (Rick Christopher)
>>Subject: Need source for toy soldier metal
>>Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 21:00:23 GMT

>>A friend of mine has gotten a hold of some antique molds for toy soldiers. He 
>>has been casting some as a hobby and has been successful in selling a few to 
>>local craft stores. He has been using tin from old linotype but his supply is 
>>beginning to run low.  I referred the FAQ and did find the addresses of some 
>>metal suppliers which I will pass along.

>>Does anyone have experience buying from a supplier of tin or other 
>>suitable metal for casting toy soldiers or miniatures? 
>Well, since he's running low on tin, pewter( tin alloy) is out.  Has he 
>tried lead, aluminum, zinc(easy to get, just get a bunch of post 1982 
>pennies and melt them down)?  Just don't do like the fellow in Seattle who

Uh, Linotype (r) TM.  Also Intertype (r) TM.  Both of these machines used
melts that were a high tin content lead.  Tin isn't a very good metal by
itself except for simple cheap boxes and stuff like that.  It is, 
however, a very good alloying metal -- bronze, gunmetal, solder --
If your friend was using Linotype (r) TM metal he was using a lead alloy
and you can probably use plumbers lead with the same results.
-- 
    - Barry Workman

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From: [email-masked] (David Adams)
Date: 13 Jan 95 11:43:02 CST

In article [email-masked], [email-masked] writes:
> >Ok, so where do I get the stuff. 

>. . .  Save your pennies.  Most of them after 1983 are zince with

I admire your atempt to reduce inflation by removing pennies
>from  circulation, but. . .

It seems like it must take quite a few pennies to make a pound.
One of the advantages of zink was supposed to be that it was
cheap!  ("Just about a penny a pound," Dave Gingery hints.)

BTW, does the copper plating melt or disolve in or does it just 
shrivel& turn into dros?

---
	-David  [email-masked]

-- 
	-David  [email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Russ Kepler)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 00:21:06 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>and you can probably use plumbers lead with the same results.

Actually, lead by itself won't cast too well.  Fortunately the
addition of tin in about 1.5% to 2% will help fill out characteristics
(detail), and this can be done by adding a type metal or reclaimed
wheel weights.  Type metal and to a lesser extent, wheelweights,
contain antimony as well.  This will increase hardness quite a bit.

The best bet would be to get a nice bottom pour casting pot (I'd
suggest the Lee Production Pot IV from Natchez Shooter's Supply), a
small container of flux (I use Marvelux available from Natchez or
Brownell's) and to mix your own alloys using reclaimed lead and
wheelweights.  Both are available from recyclers and auto repair
places - I get wheelweights regularly from a friend who owns a tire
store.  I believe that something like 3-1 lead/wheelweight would give
an acceptable alloy for something like this with reasonable strength. 
The detail filling may be adjusted by playing with mold temperature
(try for hot - I usually preheat mine by placing it on a stove) or, as
a last resort, by adding tin.  You'll likely find that tin is the most
expensive component in casting.

-- 
Russ Kepler posting from home  [email-masked]

                      Please don't feed the Engineers

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 19:05:07

>cheap!  ("Just about a penny a pound," Dave Gingery hints.)

$1.60 the pound(ten pence in the ounce) and you don't have to go driving 
around or pay shipping or whatever.
That's cheap enough for me.  Besides it's much easier to work with small
pieces than big blocks.

>BTW, does the copper plating melt or disolve in or does it just 
Shrivels into dross, though if I can get it hot enough, it will melt back 
into the zinc, but why bother?( I just know somebody will pop up and tell me
the usefulness of alloying zinc with copper....)

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From: [email-masked] (David Adams)
Date: 12 Jan 95 11:31:13 CST

[email-masked] (Vance Bass) writes:

>. . . My friend who casts military figures uses melted down
> tire weights (mostly lead, with some tin and antimony according to a long
> thread here last year).  He thinks you might be able to get pewter from your
> local scrap metals dealers, too.
> 

I have called all of the scrap dealers in the St. Paul area.  None
of them are willing to sell (to individuals.)  They only buy.

(There is one that sells sheet metals, sheet copper etc.  A couple
claim to sell iron only.)

---
	-David  [email-masked]

-- 
	-David  [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 21:31:44

In article <[email-masked]> herbert@gemini (Thomas Herbert) writes:
 They have Zinc Alloy
>in 21 lb ingots for casting for about $45.  They also have tin,
>different babbits, cerro-bismuth and others.

I thought that pennies a pound was a bit low.  My method is cheaper and 
easier to work with.....:)
The preceding has been a commentary on the world by Copper Squirrel
[email-masked]  All opinions are mine, not yours or anybody else's.
ARS GRATIA VITAE

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From: herbert@gemini (Thomas Herbert)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 16:19:51 GMT

: : ---
: : 	-David  [email-masked]

In the McMaster Carr catalog, there is a selection of foundry metals 
on page 2581 and 2582.  They will not send you a catalog unless you
are a for-real business, but they will take orders over the phone
by credit card. Try to find the catalog.  They have Zinc Alloy
in 21 lb ingots for casting for about $45.  They also have tin,
different babbits, cerro-bismuth and others.

McMaster-Carr Supply Company
PO Box 440
New Brunswick, NJ 08903-0440
908-329-3200

Their catalog is great reading.  They have everything you could
dream of.
________________________________________________________________
|Thomas F. Herbert		|     716-265-7944		|
|Mail Stop 311-16L		|     [email-masked] |
|Xerox Corporation		|				|
|800 Phillips Rd.		|				|
|Webster NY 14580		|				|
----------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [email-masked] (Christopher L. Frame)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 12:36:26 GMT

>contain antimony as well.  This will increase hardness quite a bit.

Did you ever try casting with only the metal from wheelweights?  If so, how 
was the detail?

C Frame

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From: [email-masked] (Barry Workman)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 07:09:22 GMT

Old auto door handles and window cranks.  A lot of trim pieces, too.
Problem is the chrome coating, it makes it hard to get clean metal.
Zinc melts at about 800F, I've done it on a backpackers stove.  I get
my zinc from trophy shops -- flagstaff tops and trophy statues are all
cast from zinc alloy and trophy shops usually have boxes of the stuff.
-- 
    - Barry Workman

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From: [email-masked] (Russ Kepler)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 01:21:00 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>Did you ever try casting with only the metal from wheelweights?  If so, how 

Wheelweights contain enough tin for good mold fillout, and can be cast
as-is.  I'd suggest to anyone using reclaimed wheelweights that they
be pretty careful about the wheelweights used - anything suspiciously
light or cheal should be checked carefully as it can be a zinc weight,
and one of these in a potful of lead will completely ruin the
castability of the entire pot.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 23:01:42

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Russ Kepler) writes:
d - anything suspiciously
>castability of the entire pot.
Oh?  zinc and lead don't alloy well?

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From: [email-masked] (Russ Kepler)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 00:43:31 GMT

>Oh?  zinc and lead don't alloy well?

I don't believe so - from appearance alone I'd say that the zinc
(actually something of a zinc alloy) ends up floating oin the surface
of the lead alloy, but enough gets into the lead to keep the
castability low.  The problem shows up as an inability of the alloy to
fill fine lines well, and a wrinkled sort of surface on the casting.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 21:49:01 GMT

: ---
 : 	-David  [email-masked]

Metco sells Zamac ingot for $1.45 a pound.  Sold in 10lb notched bars
Metco is a supllier to schools, so small orders are not a problem.  
The phone number is 1-800-521-8811.