Subject: Re: MSC Industrial Catalog on CD-ROM

From: [email-masked] (Herb Blair)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 06:19:25 -0600

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (JIMLONG
LI) wrote:

> Hello.  My name is Jim Long, I work at MSC and I'm trying to find out how
> you would use the MSC catalog on cd.  Would you like to search, see
> pictures ?
> Would it be useful to be able to place orders, check stock/status on line?
> 
> Please leave me your comments on this or other MSC related subjects in
> this
> forum or at [email-masked].
> 
> Thanks in Advance for helping MSC help You!

Jim,

How about putting it online on the World Wide Web?

Herb
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Bradley Teets)
Date: 21 Jan 1995 05:03:28 GMT

>you would use the MSC catalog on cd.  Would you like to search, see

We are introducing a multi-media CD of our products this year. Some of those 
items are in your catalog.  Let me know if you need some Mulit-Media material.

Bradley Teets - Iscar ph: (717)-620-3010
[email-masked]

---

From: PAUL <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 02:28:33 -0500

Jim,
tell 'em to DO IT! Msc is a great source for anyone
buying metalworking equipment, and it sur ewould give
you the jump on Traverse Tool and the rest of the
 
local sources!
 
hayesp

---

From: [email-masked] (Ron Thompson)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 16:48:27 GMT

>[email-masked]

The CD would be great. Online would even be better. The place I work orders 
>from  MSC now and then and would probably order more with an easy to search 
for what is needed. The company my son works for buys from MSC on a regular 
basis so I know he would find it very useful. Net access would give people 
without CD roms access and make it reachable from more computers at work and 
at home.

keep up the good work, Ron

Ron Thompson                   |  Voice (904) 644-5563
Psychology Dept                |  Fax   (904) 644-7739
Florida State Univ             |  Amateur Radio N4FHO
Tallahassee, FL 33206-1051     |  Member Florida Flywheelers

---

From: [email-masked] (Mark Fraser)
Date: 21 Jan 1995 16:45:19 GMT

It's pretty widely rumored that the cost of producing a cdrom is 
*somewhat* lower than for a printed catalog, to say nothing of 
mailing.  Properly indexed, I'd be willing to PAY for a cdrom on
a routine basis, while I hesitate to do that for many printed 
ctalogs.  Just for the convenience and speed and space.
/Mark

Herb Blair ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (JIMLONG
: LI) wrote:

: > Hello.  My name is Jim Long, I work at MSC and I'm trying to find out how
: > you would use the MSC catalog on cd.  Would you like to search, see
: > pictures ?
: > Would it be useful to be able to place orders, check stock/status on line?
: > 
: > Please leave me your comments on this or other MSC related subjects in
: > this
: > forum or at [email-masked].
: > 
: > Thanks in Advance for helping MSC help You!

: Jim,

: How about putting it online on the World Wide Web?

: Herb
: [email-masked]

---

From: v040601@denab (Mark McDade (303) 673-6841)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 18:21:35 GMT

JIMLONG LI ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Hello.  My name is Jim Long, I work at MSC and I'm trying to find out how
: you would use the MSC catalog on cd.  Would you like to search, see
: pictures ?
: Would it be useful to be able to place orders, check stock/status on line?

: Please leave me your comments on this or other MSC related subjects in
: this
: forum or at [email-masked].

: Thanks in Advance for helping MSC help You!

Jim,

I use MSC a lot and I'd rather see the catalog on WWW (Mosaic/Netscape) -
you can keep it more current and in the NEAR future, you can take encrypted
credit cards right over the tube and short circuit the ordering process
altogether.  You'd be miles ahead to do it that way.  The downside is that
the audience is more limited for now - I think that'll change soon.

Mark McDade

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Bill Ganoe)
Date: 22 Jan 1995 22:52:50 GMT

>the audience is more limited for now - I think that'll change soon.

I, too, would like to see the catalog on WWW, but I think CD-ROM
might not be a bad idea -- as long as it includes at least as much
as the hard copy catalog does now as well as VERY good indexing.  Not
eveyone is interested in paying for access charges to browse a WWW page,
but the WWW page could provide the last word in updates after someone
has browsed the regular catalog or a CD-ROM.  On the other hand, if
you already know exactly what you need to order, you could go directly
to the WWW page.  Further, since not everyone has Mosaic access (or will
have anytime soon), gopher access to basic catalog listings might
be helpful.

-- 
Bill Ganoe -- U. of Arizona, SIE Dept **   Engineering:
[email-masked]                  **      The ultimate art
602.621.2528                          **      of the human mind.

---

From: [email-masked] (Tim Kirby)
Date: 21 Jan 95 16:39:33 CST

Ron Ginger ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (JIMLONG LI) writes:
: >Hello.  My name is Jim Long, I work at MSC and I'm trying to find out how
: >you would use the MSC catalog on cd.  Would you like to search, see
: >pictures? Would it be useful to be able to place orders, check stock/status
: >on line?

: I think that would be a fine idea. I would hope it could be very well 
: indexed, soyou could search under lots of terms- I often have trouble
: finding things in a simple  index when Im not sure of a real name.

Definitely. The beauty of this technology is to make searching easy...
Being from foreign parts (the UK) I still occasionally come across terms
different to those I grew up with... so good keywords would be a strong
selling point for me.

: It would also be good to have more than one photo, maybe a photos and
: drawing.

Yeah. Particularly if dimensions are involved - it's not always intuitive
what constitutes the w, d and h of an object.

: when can we get it????

yup. Oh, and how often would you expect to update the information?
I don't know about placing orders online... perhaps when there is a good way
of passing financially sensitive information around... but a method whereby
I could look up the availability of part numbers online would be good.

Tim
--
Tim Kirby                    - [email-masked] -                +1-(612)-683-5390
Software Division System Support ________________ Cray Research, Eagan MN, USA
----------------- Ask not for whom I speak - I speak for me ------------------
If you are sure you understand everything that is going on,
you are hopelessly confused...                                - Walter Mondale

---

From: Mark G. Forbes
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 15:50:35 PST

>>you would use the MSC catalog on cd.  Would you like to search, see

I'd be even happier if you made that data available with a WWW page, or
a search engine. CD-ROM is nice, but being able to check your catalog
on-line would be even better. What would *really* be cool is if I could
place an order too! I've used Bookstacks Inc's on-line bookstore and
really like it. The user interface isn't perfect, but it's convenient and
I can find things that I didn't even know I was looking for.

To try it, telnet to books.com. You'll have to sign up, but it's free. If
you guys could do even *that* I'd be happy.

-- 
[email-masked]
Mark G. Forbes
"Never ascribe to malice that which can be blamed on the engineer."

---

From: [email-masked] (J. Kimberlin)
Date: 22 Jan 1995 18:14:33 -0800

>>>you would use the MSC catalog on cd.  Would you like to search, see

My main problem with MSC is not its offerings or its catalogue, but the 
fact that it charges CA state sales tax while not having an office in 
CA.  I can get everything in the MSC catalogue right here in CA without 
having to pay the freight.  The only thing that makes mail order economic 
is the sales tax vs freight economic consideration.  Until I can order 
>from  MSC at the same price (or less) than my local supplier, or 
McMaster-Carr, Grainger, or Travers Tool (who will get anything BTW, in 
their catalogue or not, and do not charge state tax), I wouldn't be 
interested in a MSC catalog on cd, on line, or in paper.

But, I do think it is a fine idea and even better would be a home page on 
WWW.  While I wouldn't order, I would refer.

JerryK

---

From: [email-masked] (James Kirkpatrick)
Date: 23 Jan 95 16:18:33 MST

Jay Stryker writes:
|>   I would think in a couple of years the printed catalog we all enjoy now
|>would be a "special order item" only and on-line web browsers will
|>predominate catalog sales and order fulfillment, along with read-at-home CDs.

I sent a lengthy reply to the original poster at MSC, but I wonder how
many of MSC's real "bread-and-butter" customers even have a PC, let alone
one that has a CD-ROM drive and/or non-dialup Internet access.  I picture
a scruffy, smoking shop manager with a desk, phone, and poor lighting,
picking up the phone and ordering another 500 end mills for his shop :-)
So I suspect it will be longer than a couple of years before the printed
catalog goes away.

Keep in mind that this is rec.crafts.metalworking, the "rec" stands for
recreational.  Many of us MSC customers might be placing orders small
enough to ensure they lose money on us!  Not always, but we don't give
them the business they need to keep a dozen branches going.  How many
of you have bought a Vectrax mill?

In any event, irrespective of us home-shoppers, it sounds like something
they should explore.  Maybe do a CD-ROM catalog; later add WWW access to
it; later make it dynamically updatable on their end; later add ordering,
assuming the crypto guys can give us a secure way to transfer money or
account info, that the feds won't panic over.

Jim, just trying to keep things in perspective

---

From: [email-masked] (Russ Kepler)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 04:05:55 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>you would use the MSC catalog on cd.  Would you like to search, see

The text data would go in pretty well, but in looking over the catalog
I suspect that the pictures, even in B&W, would take quite a bit of
room.  Even given that I'd rather have a couple of CDs, both with
specs and drawings, than a single with no specs or pictures.  Perhaps
a split similar to your traditional catalog vs. the welding addition
recently added could work well.

Don't overlook the possibility of browsing and grouping - I needed a
5C spin index for a project this weekend, and having missed one at an
auction on Saturday I chose to order one from you guys this morning. I
chose a Phase II after looking at the possibilities, and ordered a 5C
stop as well (since it was on the same page I recalled that I'd need
one) and a few other items after a short browse.  A CD catalog would
need the same browse capability for me to use it, heck, sometimes it's
the only pointer I have on an item I see for sale at an auction (it's
fun for me, a very amateur metalworker, to tell a machinist of 40
years what some gadget is...).

>Would it be useful to be able to place orders, check stock/status on line?

For some, yes, but the security would be a nightmare.

-- 
Russ Kepler posting from home  [email-masked]

                      Please don't feed the Engineers

---

From: [email-masked] (Jay Stryker)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 16:14:54

>>without CD roms access and make it reachable from more computers at work and 

   There is a company called Cykic Software in San Diego Calif.,that makes a PC
based www server for on-line browsing with a relational data base for order
taking as well.  That could be placed in the many branch offices of MSC for
direct phone-in browsing/ordering.
   I would think in a couple of years the printed catalog we all enjoy now
would be a "special order item" only and on-line web browsers will
predominate catalog sales and order fulfillment, along with read-at-home CDs.
My $0.02 only.
Jay

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 24 Jan 1995 22:26:53 GMT

Jim,

    Sounds like a good thing.  Most of the people who order from your 
company most likely don't have computers, and fewer with net access.  In 
time this will change.  I would recommend including in the program that
searchs the catalog, the ability to generate a print out that could then 
be faxed to your sales department.  For personal reasons, I hate the 
thought of directly ordering by computer.

    I would not set up your CDROM catalog up as a multimedia "event", but
us a data base of facts, and a few black and white pictures of the items. 
As a U.S. Gov employee, I can't order any "chemicals" with out having 
first the MSDS in hand.  Including it would be extremely helpful.  I'm 
sure there is additional information you have on your products that can't
fit into the current catalog, include it on the CDROM, not pretty color 
pictures.

  The including of programs that help select, for example, the correct 
grinding wheel (or what ever) would be good.

   On-line search of availability has limited value to me, except for the
monthly sales that you run, where most of the items I pick are out of 
stock and will not be restocked.  This has been a waste of time for me 
trying to buy sale items (I have stopped trying). The sales that you have
to eliminate stock could be on line.

Hope this helps,

Vince

---

From: [email-masked] (J. Kimberlin)
Date: 25 Jan 1995 16:23:39 -0800

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Alan Frisbie) writes:
>In article <[email-masked]>, 
>[email-masked] (J. Kimberlin) writes:
>
>> CA.  
>I believe that you are wrong about this.   I just checked
>an MSC invoice from last year and there was no sales tax charged.
>The merchandise total was $154.20, Shipping & Handling was $10.47,
>Total was $164.67.   The prices were exactly as listed in the
>catalog.   No tax or other charges.
>
>--  Alan E. Frisbie               [email-masked]
>--  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.
>--  4759 Round Top Drive          (213) 256-2575 (voice)
>--  Los Angeles, CA 90065         (213) 258-3585 (FAX)

I stand corrected by someone who has experience with MSC.  The last time 
I read their cataloge, somewhere in there I thought I saw something that 
said they required sales tax (of the state lived in) to be added.  The 
catalogue may have been an old one issued before the court case deciding 
that companies could not be required to collect state taxes.  
Consequently I never ordered from them.  I may do so now, but I get good 
service from Travers Tool too, who will supply stuff not in their 
catalogue, (or have for me in the past).

JerryK

---

From: [email-masked] (Alan Frisbie)
Date: 25 Jan 95 12:23:42 PST

---

From: [email-masked] (Russ Kepler)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 14:14:42 GMT

>catalogue, (or have for me in the past).

The requirement to collect sales tax is normally only done by a
business that has a presence in the state of the person doing the
ordering.  This means that MSC will likely collect sales tax from the
following states:

Colorado, Conn, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Maryland, Mass, Neb, NJ,
NY, Penn, RI, Texas and Alabama.  (from the 94/95 catalog)

Whenever someone attempts to collect sales tax from me on an
interstate order I simply ask them for their in-state office number or
address.  After they fail to supply that I ask for their in-state tax
identifications or retail sales certificate number.  It's amazing how
few of them want to collect sales tax after you ask for that
information...

Didn't CA try to force collection of sale tax on out-of-state
businesses in recent memory?  Was this finally resolved one way or the
other?

As to ordering odd items I feel that it's never too hard to ask, and MSC
has a group of folks who do a pretty good job of rummaging up things not
in the catalog.  I've had plenty of things drop-shipped directly from
Starrett and other manufacturers to me through an MSC order.  Just call 
and ask for "Special Orders".

---

From: [email-masked] (Ron Thompson)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 19:06:45 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (J. Kimberlin) writes:
>Path:
>mailer.acns.fsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!crl9.cr
>l.com!not-for-mail
>From: [email-masked] (J. Kimberlin)
>Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
>Subject: Re: MSC Industrial Catalog on CD-ROM
>Date: 26 Jan 1995 17:45:45 -0800
>Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access        (415) 705-6060  [login: guest]
>Lines: 51
>Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
>References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
><[email-masked]>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: crl9.crl.com

>In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked]
>(Russ Kepler) writes:

>Excellent advice!

>They did and it resulted in the Supreme Court decision ( but don't ask me 
>the details and how many states participated in the suit, or even whether 
>CA was the instigator)

>California can still come in an charge you for sales tax on items 
>purchased outside CA (or they think they can).  They certainly do on 
>large items such as automobiles.  It could attract attention if one would 
>get a pricy CNC machine from out-of-CA.  Actually enforcement is hard due 
>to lack of personnel to do it.  But there are a few tax police around.

>>and ask for "Special Orders".

In Florida for the past year or so they have been really bad. They have TV 
ads that say anytime you buy anything out of state, mail order or in person 
you are required to pay FL tax. I went to Birmingham and picked up foundry 
supplys and was charged. They said Florida had forced them to pay $7,000+ 
for sales that had made in FL. I would really like to know more about what 
thay can legaly do.

Ron

Ron Thompson                      |     Internet:  [email-masked]
Psychology Dept.                  |     Voice:     904-644-5563
Florida State University          |     FAX:       904-644-7739
Tallahassee,  FL 32306-1051       |     Amateur Radio N4FHO

---

From: ACCESS Foundation <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 09:44:59 -0500

> >> Would it be useful to be able to place orders, check stock/status on line?

Many companies are moving into Cd-Rom catalogue distribution.  As 
producers and publishers of electronic books, catalogues, reports, 
databases, etc.. we would like to offer a friendly caution to those who 
are entertaining CD-Rom distribution.

a)  It is not for everyone, no matter what Sony/Mitsubishi say.
b)  It can cost 50% less than your last quote/estimate, and STILL be great.

ACCESS Foundation <[email-masked]>