Subject: riveted chain mail

From: [email-masked] (David E. White)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 20:21:11 GMT

I started a riveted mail thread about 7 months ago and lost
net access when I quit my VAX operator job and was wondering if anyone
but me had any success.

	I used 16 ga. wire to make 3/8" rings, flattend them after heating
w/ a propane torch and used a #54 (think thats right) drill and wire brads
for rivetts.  I found I could cold punch if the rings were thoroughly 
anealed after flattening and used an blunted ice pick for my punch.

	I also had some limited success welding the links in a forge.
Hard.  About half welded, a third burnt and the rest I couldn't get to
stick.  Also the tongs get kink of crusty after a while as you have to 
keep hold of the link untill you gets it to welding temp.

	I have a pretty good looking 4x4 swatch.  I think I was able to 
rivett 6-7 links per hour.  I haven't worked on it for a long time. 
It works better than anything I have found so far for scouring greasy pot 
and pans.

David White
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]. (Ron Bach [CASW])
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 11:32:14 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
David E. White <[email-masked]> wrote:
    <snip>
>anealed after flattening and used an blunted ice pick for my punch.

    If you are interested, maile, as made in the "Good Olde days",
was made by taking small strips of ~24 to 18 ga strips of steel and forming
a tube.  This tube was then curved into the link, the ends had not been
"rolled" and were left flat for the riveting.

>keep hold of the link untill you gets it to welding temp.

    Welded links, to the best of my knowledge, are "modern" improvement.  An
easy way to weld the links is to make the swatch, leave a small gap between
the ends of the link attach a stick welder ("buzz box") to diagional corners
set the power level then hit the power.  After the sparks stop just go over
the swatch with an small rod and touch up any that need it.  I have never
done this but someone who had said that he was getting about 75 to 90 %
welded per "shot".

>rivett 6-7 links per hour.

    You now know why this task was given to apprentices to do, and why it
would take 6 months to get a shirt.

>It works better than anything I have found so far for scouring greasy pot 

	And that is what happened to all the old maile.
-- 
Ron Bach
[email-masked]
These opinions are my own.  Let the company make their own.

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From: [email-masked] (Ralph Snel)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 10:45:06 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]. (Ron Bach [CASW]) writes:
<snip>

> "rolled" and were left flat for the riveting.
Say what? I've read quite a few references on mail amking, but never
seen this technique. When were the "Good Olde days"? Roman? Or before that?
At least in the "Good Newe days", middle ages that is, iron was so
common that they could afford solid links. They started with a slab of
whrought iron, forged it into something that could be rolled into something
that could be cold-drawn into wire. I've got books with pictures where
they do so, and books with metalographical analysis of individual links.
The links in that specific sample were made out of the worst kind of iron
they had then, basically dirty stuff that wouldn't do for anything else.
The wire (typically 16 gauge or thereabout) was then bent into rings,
that were forge-welded (yes, they did know how to weld, even back then)
together. The closed rings were put togther with open rings, that were
rivited in place.
> >keep hold of the link untill you gets it to welding temp.
Try getting hold of iron with superb welding quality, like wrought
iron. There are some modern irons/steels as well that will weld nearly
as good as WI. Unfortunately I don't know the specs, but I have a piece
lying at home.

Nice to hear that there are people around who try stuff like that.
One day I will try it too :)

Ralph
[email-masked]

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From: Mike Schechter <[email-masked]>
Date: 13 Jan 1995 16:53:12 GMT

>One day I will try it too :)
Methinks you'd have better succes, spped, and better mail by using
16 gauge stainless and silver soldering..

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From: [email-masked] (william thomas powers)
Date: 13 Jan 1995 13:32:09 -0500

>   Welded links, to the best of my knowledge, are "modern" improvement.  
 
Unfortunatly this is just not true.
 
Firstly there are many ways to make maile rings and documented examples
of punched from flat sheet, hammered from flat strips, using drawn wire,
etc are fairly easy to find, (also mixtures of the above ways, as punched
links will require alternating rows of closeable links).
 
Secondly welded links are found in some medieval maile, remember
wrought iron welds, (and resists burning!), a lot easier than mild steel.
 
Thomas Powers
Columbus, OH

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From: [email-masked] (David E. White)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 23:15:08 GMT

Mike Schechter ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]> Ralph Snel,
: [email-masked] writes:
: >
: >
: >Nice to hear that there are people around who try stuff like that.
: >One day I will try it too :)
: >
: Methinks you'd have better succes, spped, and better mail by using
: 16 gauge stainless and silver soldering..

Well yeah... but what would be the point?  I could buy a mail shirt from 
one of those companies making welded stainless shark armour too but I 
wouldn't learn anything new.

David White
[email-masked]