Subject: Advice on shops in limited space

From: [email-masked] (Bill Ganoe)
Date: 12 Oct 1994 06:15:07 GMT

I've been fascinated by model railroads and metal working
since before I could get into shop class in junior high.
However, due to financial or space limitations, I've never
set up a shop of my own.  I actually thought I had put "a
childish dream" behind me, but I few weeks ago, fate
dropped a copy of HSM in my lap, and today I got to
flipping through the Sherline catalog.  I still have
limited space (2 bedroom apartment), but I got to
wondering:  What have other people done who don't have
a 10' x 20' garage with nice heavy cement floor to dedicate
to a shop full of machine tools?
-- 
Bill Ganoe -- U. of Arizona, SIE Dept **   Engineering:
[email-masked]                  **      The ultimate art
602.621.2528                          **      of the human mind.

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From: [email-masked] (Greg Lewis)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 03:50:17 GMT

>to a shop full of machine tools?

Check Kozo Hiraoka's books advertised in HSM and Live Steam. He builds
live steam locos on a 7" lathe/mill combo in his apartment. The book
Building the Shay has a photo of his setup. Generally, get the biggest
lathe you can get into the shop.... The tiny ones are great perhaps
for HO modeling, but you'll quickly appreicate a good-quality 6 or
8-inch machine. And remember, you get what you pay for....

___________________________________________________________________
[email-masked]
Photojournalism sequence, Department of Mass Communication and Journalism
CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740-0010

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From: [email-masked] (James Kirkpatrick)
Date: 12 Oct 94 09:00:35 MDT

In article <[email-masked]>,
[email-masked] (Bill Ganoe) writes:

|>I've been fascinated by model railroads and metal working
|>since before I could get into shop class in junior high.
|>However, due to financial or space limitations, I've never
|>set up a shop of my own.  I actually thought I had put "a
|>childish dream" behind me, but I few weeks ago, fate
|>dropped a copy of HSM in my lap, and today I got to
|>flipping through the Sherline catalog.  I still have
|>limited space (2 bedroom apartment), but I got to
|>wondering:  What have other people done who don't have
|>a 10' x 20' garage with nice heavy cement floor to dedicate
|>to a shop full of machine tools?

Funny you should mention HSM.  I believe it was an issue last year they
discussed this.  One of the regular authors is Rudy Kouhoupt (sp?), who
writes a semi-regular series called The Micro Machinist.  He had an article
showing how he set up his shop in an amazingly small area.  It helps that
most of his tools are small, such as the Sherlines which can be put into
drawers or on shelves.  It depends on the size of your tools, which in turn
(should) depend on the type of work you intend to do.  I don't think you
can reasonably build live-steam engines with Sherlines, but you can still
do quite a bit at smaller scales.  I lived in a 1-bedroom apartment for
7 years, and could have easily stored them on the shelf in the bedroom
closet (I wasn't into metalworking at that time, though).  You'd want a
small drill press, probably, and that could store on the floor in the closet.

The first real decision might be to decide what size of work you might
want to do, and go from there.

Jim

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From: [email-masked] (Jay Stryker)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 18:01:58

>>to a shop full of machine tools?

First let me coin a word...since some of my machine tools were bought as
expensive toys  = to(y)ls.  I do justify their use, and am happy to say
they have all been put to good use...not as frequenetly as would be in a 
fully staffed machine shop, but enough to make me content.

I've been in the same situation.  I started with a Sherline-like jewelers
lathe and have added to(y)ls ever since.  One of my small lathes is the Cowells
(English made) which lives in a sturdy wooden box with all of its
accessories.  I use it as a "travel lathe" as well as a supplemental
machine for small work.  My workshop started as a part of a laundry area
worktable...moved to a dedicated workbench...moved to an apartment where the
horizontal mill and lathes were part of the dining room decor and welding was
done on the balcony...moved to a room of its own in a house...moved to a
two car garage and now it is in a 30 X 50 barn (with a concrete floor)...so
be prepared for adding to your collection.  In travel situations I have used
the Cowells "right out of the box"...eg, the front of the box opens, the lathe
slides out and there is the accessories drawer right above.  It only takes a
minute or two to set up or repack.  This can be used on a kitchen table.
It can be stored under a bed.  In your case with limited space I suggest
you consider building a kind of roll-top (or lift-top) desk which can be
a combination machine storage and worktable.  Many model engineers in
England live in *tiny* (by American standards) spaces, and yet have a full
set of tools and storage for materials and turn out fine models.  

In summary, build up your shop as you get the chance.  You can obtain your
machines (and materials) from unlikely places...even as gifts...and they do
store well.  Moving all that metal is a problem, granted.  By adding to your
workshop over the years, you will obtain a set up which is right for you.

Enjoy
Jay Stryker

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From: [email-masked] (David Jenkins)
Date: 13 Oct 1994 07:41:32 GMT

>From  article <[email-masked]>, by [email-masked] (-F.KERFOOT):
> In article <[email-masked]>,
> James Kirkpatrick <[email-masked]> wrote:
>...
>>...
> If you are interested in making trains which are somewhat bigger,
> another point of reference as to what can be done in a very small space
> might be Kozo Hiraoaka, who writes extensively for the live steam hobby.
> Some of the books he has written, which are mostly reprints of his
...
I've seen a few articles by Hiraoaka in Live Steam - UK magazines could
learn a lot by emulating his approach.  His instructions are clear, his
diagrams are explanatory, and his whole approach to each task is logical.

> The UK crowd might want to comment on what can be done with a Myford
> lathe as the only serious machine tool, which can be fit in a 
> relatively small space (compared to to the hypothetical shop full
...
Traditionally, the Myford lathe is regarded as the standard by which others
are measured - although not everyone owns one!  For example, many lathes
exist with 3.5" centre height, models are designed so that they can be built
on a lathe of that size, etc., etc.

Mind you, I wouldn't care to run a Myford Super 7 in a living area - it's
still a big lump of iron.  It's not something you can pick up and put away
when you've finished, especially as it must be put on a stand or stout
bench. Bl**dy expensive as well.  

I suspect this person is looking for something small and portable, e.g.
Toyo, Unimat, Cowells, etc.

If the user is realistic about the work that can be done, then these can
produce good work.

-- 
David Jenkins

"This looks like a job for... somebody else!"
	- Plucky Duck

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From: [email-masked] (YenHai Harold Tay)
Date: 20 Oct 1994 16:53:17 GMT

Hi!  
On the subject of shops in small spaces, has anyone made his/her shop in a van?
I'm thinking of putting mine in my 1972 VW bus.  I have no equipment yet, but
I'd like to build a 7" lathe, and put in a small foundry for casting.  That way I can 
always have my shop no matter where I go.  (I'm a student, and I move from
apartment to apartment, etc.)

Harold

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From: [email-masked] (-F.KERFOOT)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 16:54:48 GMT

If you are interested in making trains which are somewhat bigger,
another point of reference as to what can be done in a very small space
might be Kozo Hiraoaka, who writes extensively for the live steam hobby.
Some of the books he has written, which are mostly reprints of his
various article series from Live Steam magazine, also describe his shop,
which is quite small. I seem to remember it is a small, almost closet
sized area in his Japanese apartment. He uses one of the "universal"
machine tools, which has both a lathe and milling machine combined,
like the Maximat. I think it is about an 8" swing lathe (4" center
height). With this equipment he builds superb 3/4" per Ft. live steam
models.

The UK crowd might want to comment on what can be done with a Myford
lathe as the only serious machine tool, which can be fit in a 
relatively small space (compared to to the hypothetical shop full
of machine tools you mentioned). Some unbelievably nice models have
been built using a Myford in relatively confined spaces.

Always looking for a way to apply a live steam perspective to the
discussion ;)

Frank Kerfoot
[email-masked]