Subject: Floor safe

From: [email-masked] (Dave Larsen)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 15:25:57 GMT

I am considering building a fireproof safe that would fit between the
floor joists in a closet. It'd be more important to protect papers than
anything of value (as if I had anything of value 8*). I'd probably
cover it with carpet to conceal it.

I was thinking along the lines of two 1/8" steel boxes (one a 1/2" to
an inch smaller than the other) with a fiberglass in between.

Has anyone done this? Any suggestions for materials and/or design?
Anyone know how commercial products are built to resist fire (and water
the fire fighters use)?

Dave
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Scot Heath)
Date: 6 Oct 1994 21:09:29 GMT

Dave Larsen ([email-masked]) wrote:
: I am considering building a fireproof safe that would fit between the
: floor joists in a closet. It'd be more important to protect papers than
: anything of value (as if I had anything of value 8*). I'd probably
: cover it with carpet to conceal it.

: I was thinking along the lines of two 1/8" steel boxes (one a 1/2" to
: an inch smaller than the other) with a fiberglass in between.

: Has anyone done this? Any suggestions for materials and/or design?
: Anyone know how commercial products are built to resist fire (and water
: the fire fighters use)?

I suggest you call one of the gun safe manufacturers such as National Security
1-800-544-3829, Liberty Safes 1-800-247-5625, or Fort Knox 1-800-821-5216,
and ask them what they use.  I have a National safe and it is constructed much 
as you describe.  I've seen photos of a National safe which went through a 
house fire and the contents were absolutely perfect.

-Scot

--
DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER

Everything I write is my opinion only.  Nobody else would want it.

DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER

Scot E. Heath                          "Nothing beats turning clay to dust."
Fort Collins, CO
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (James Kirkpatrick)
Date: 6 Oct 94 13:53:44 MDT

In article <[email-masked]>,
[email-masked] (Dave Larsen) writes:

|>I am considering building a fireproof safe that would fit between the
|>floor joists in a closet. It'd be more important to protect papers than
|>anything of value (as if I had anything of value 8*). I'd probably
|>cover it with carpet to conceal it.
|>
|>I was thinking along the lines of two 1/8" steel boxes (one a 1/2" to
|>an inch smaller than the other) with a fiberglass in between.
|>
|>Has anyone done this? Any suggestions for materials and/or design?
|>Anyone know how commercial products are built to resist fire (and water
|>the fire fighters use)?

My first thought would be to use a commercial firebox, and just build
a metal box to hold it between the joists.  That way you get proven
fire protection, and the box is only needed to hold it in your desired
location.

I believe many of these work by evaporating trapped water during a fire
rather than being excellent insulators.  The vapor could cause problems.
Note that most of these are not suitable for storing computer disks,
which can neither put up with the steam, nor as much heat as paper can take.

Are you trying for fire protection only, or do you want it to be difficult
for a burglar to open?  I.e. do you want a combination lock and big strong
bolts, or minimal protection (by hiding it)?  Your original question was
not clear on this, and of course determines construction.

I've never heard of commercial safes using fiberglass.  Usually it is
a wallboard-like material, or sometimes thin sheets of fire brick or
ceramic.  Or even concrete, when weight is desirable to prevent a
burglar hauling it off.

As for waterproofing, I'm not sure what is commonly done.  One idea that
comes to mind is the plastic bags used for roasting turkeys.  I'm not
sure how high they are rated, but if they meet or exceed the kindling
point of paper (451 degrees F?), then they'd be adequate.

You might consider asking alt.locksmithing, though dealing with the
alt groups can be a "different" experience.