Subject: Re: A: How to glue polyethylene or polypropylene

From: [email-masked] (AVWELD)
Date: 9 May 1995 23:54:32 -0400

I HAVE BEEN WELDING THERMOPLASTICS SUCH AS POLYETHLYENE,
PVC,ABS PVC ,POLY CARBONATES VERY SUCCESSFULLY.  I HAVE 
CHARTS TO HELP ID PLASTICS CALL ME AT 1800-831-2949 ASK FOR 
THE WELDING INSTRUCTOR.

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From: [email-masked] (Timothy C. Eisele)
Date: 10 May 1995 07:58:52 -0400

James Foster x2912 ([email-masked]) wrote:
: 
: Hey, c'mon! This is rec.crafts.metalworking!! Why doesn't anybody suggest
: the obvious: Weld them together!!  I'm somewhat serious about this, since
: a couple of weeks ago I scored a Laramie plastic welder at a garage sale.
: This was more a purchase of opportunity rather than anything I have a pressing
: need for.  Anyone here have any pointers to resources for techniques or 
: filler rods? B^)

As a matter of fact, yes, I do.  Call up United States Plastic Corp. at
(419) 228-2242, and ask for their 1995 Plastics catalog.  I just obtained
one of these (I was actually looking for 3-way valves, which they have),
and they have a selection of plastic welders, welding rod, and a manual
titled "Making Better Plastic Welds" (64 pages, $5.95).  They sent my valve
in less than a week (including shipping time), so they are prompt even with
small orders.

Tim Eisele
Department of Metallurgical and Materials Engineering 
Michigan Tech. University 
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Derrick Sarafinchan)
Date: 9 May 1995 09:16:38 -0400

The easiest way to get a good bond betwwen plastics like PE is to use a 
solvent like methylene chloride (albeit harmful to your health--use fume 
hood) to soften and activate the region of bonding contact.  What you do 
is apply a small amount of the solvent to both pieces and then join 
them before they dry.

Alternatively, join the pieces and run a bit of the solvent along 
the region.  The solent will flow between the parts and bond them.
 
Derrick

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From: [email-masked] (James Foster x2912)
Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 22:06:11 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Derrick Sarafinchan) writes:
|> 
|> The easiest way to get a good bond betwwen plastics like PE is to use a 
|> solvent like methylene chloride (albeit harmful to your health--use fume 
|> hood) to soften and activate the region of bonding contact.  What you do 
|> is apply a small amount of the solvent to both pieces and then join 
|> them before they dry.
|> 
|> Alternatively, join the pieces and run a bit of the solvent along 
|> the region.  The solent will flow between the parts and bond them.

Hey, c'mon! This is rec.crafts.metalworking!! Why doesn't anybody suggest
the obvious: Weld them together!!  I'm somewhat serious about this, since
a couple of weeks ago I scored a Laramie plastic welder at a garage sale.
This was more a purchase of opportunity rather than anything I have a pressing
need for.  Anyone here have any pointers to resources for techniques or 
filler rods? B^)

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 12 May 1995 05:55:53 -0700

>need for.  Anyone here have any pointers to resources for techniques or 

	I used to weld PP washers together for small inert battery cells 
about 10 years ago. Bought the welder and rods from 'McMaster-Carr';
I believe they are in Los Angeles-- Yep, found the catalog. Call
(213)692-5911 or (213)695-2449. They carry all sorts of industrial
supplies, sort of like a Sears Catalog Sales for industry! Also
check out 'Grainger's' (soory, no phone..)
-- 
 				Regards, Kestas
 
  Kestutis Sliupas                      x (510) 231-1540 (work voice) 
  [email-masked] x (510) 231-1285 (work FAX) USA CA

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From: [email-masked] (Norman Billingham)
Date: 13 May 1995 20:41:39 GMT

Derrick Sarafinchan ([email-masked]) wrote:

: The easiest way to get a good bond betwwen plastics like PE is to use a 
: solvent like methylene chloride (albeit harmful to your health--use fume 
: hood) to soften and activate the region of bonding contact.  What you do 
: is apply a small amount of the solvent to both pieces and then join 
: them before they dry.

: Alternatively, join the pieces and run a bit of the solvent along 
: the region.  The solent will flow between the parts and bond them.
:  
: Derrick

This will work with some plastics, notably acrylics ans styrenics.  It
will not work with PE or PP, both of which are insoluble in all solvents
at room temperature.

Norman Billingham
Sussex University
Brighton
UK

From [Mark Rogo] Sun May 14 14:19:19 EDT 1995
Article: 12158 of rec.crafts.metalworking
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.interserv.net!usenet
From: [Mark Rogo]
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Where to go and who to ask for
Date: 14 May 1995 17:27:10 GMT
Organization: InterServ News Service
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.120.34.234
X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)

>There are a whole series of scrap dealers in the U.S. I'm sure near you there's someone.  Try the 
yellow pages under "Scrap".   I've been chairman of the scrap metal division of United Jewish 
Appeal over the past few years, and have been amazed at how organized these people are.  
There's a national trade association  for them also.  If you still get stuck, call 310-949-4466, which is 
a scrap dealer who is a friend of mine.  Ask for Jose, or Don or Sandy. Mention my name, and ask 
them to help you out.
 Good luck
Mark Rogo [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Storker Moe)
Date: Tue, 23 May 95 08:35:40 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
   [email-masked] (Norman Yarvin) wrote:

[snip...]

>I think 2-liter soda bottles are polyethylene terephthalate, not
>polyethylene or polypropylene.  Evidence:
>
>	1. Polyethylene terephthalate is mentioned as being "widely
>	used" for "beverage bottles" in Materials Handbook.  (Did
>	anyone mention recently how good a book that is?)
>
>	2. Recycling logo "PETE" on the bottom of the bottle (would be
>	"HDPE" or "LDPE" for polyethylene)
>
>	3. Whatever the stuff is, it doesn't behave like the PE or PP
>	I've known.  It's harder.
>
>	...and nothing else, i.e. this is just a guess.
>

4. And in Norway, the plastic beverage bottles are specifically marked 
as made from polyethylene terephtalate. I _do_ think we're in sync 
with the civilized world here...

Storker Moe
The "o" in my first name is really an "ø" (an "o" with a slash)

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak,
they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment"
                                                        Matt. 12,36

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From: [email-masked] (Edward Ruden)
Date: 30 May 1995 14:32:51 -0600

Bernard Morey <[email-masked]> writes:

>> We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an 
>> unexpected result.  It has even worked with Teflon.

>I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop.  A glue gun 
>just won't work -- I've tried it.  It may _sort of_ work if there is no 
>stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!

I've glued PE with Hot-Melt glue often.  The trick is to preheat the substrate
with a heat gun as much as you can get away with. The hotter you get it,
the more it will deform, so this will depend on your dimensional tolerances.
If you don't care much about tolerances, heat it until it's clear.  You'll
get a servicable bond for many applications, but nothing beats a true
weld.

Edward L. Ruden

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From: [email-masked] (William R. Penrose)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 08:25:34

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Allen) writes:
>I've made specialty lab hoods, high-temperature plastic
>tanks, and assorted odd-shaped thingamabobs using a plastic welder.
>Actually, it's pretty fun -- better than welding metal, IMHO.

>Allen

It's worth making the point that plastic welding should always be done in a 
ventilated area.  If you don't have a fume hood, at least use a fan to blow 
the fumes away.

************************************************************************
Bill Penrose, Sr. Scientist, Transducer Research, Inc., 
999 Chicago Avenue, Naperville, IL 60540.  708-357-0004, fax -1055, 
   email [email-masked]
"In any field, it is easy to see who the pioneers are -- they are
the ones lying face down with arrows in their backs."  (Anon.)
************************************************************************

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From: Susan Burgott <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Jun 1995 18:57:56 GMT

Is there really a machine that welds plastic?  I would love a plastic 
welder!

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From: Susan Burgott <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Jun 1995 19:00:29 GMT

Is there really a plastic welder?  A speciallized machine?  I would sure 
love one of tose.

---

From: William Kaukler <[email-masked]>
Date: 6 Jun 1995 14:07:10 GMT

One doesn't need a machine.  One needs only to melt or soften the   
plastic.  For some plastics, a common soldering iron can be used.   
Another way to look at it: hot melt glue is a nylon-like plastic used to   
join non-plastics together but you melt it to use it.  It is just the   
same when welding PE PP or styrene; you localy melt and bring the pieces   
together.  Another peice of the same plastic can be added, once molten.    
You can purchase 'welding' rods of plastic and tips for soldering irons.   
  
Some also use the term solvent welding, but I am not refering to that   
here. 
 
--  
William F. Kaukler, PhD., Met. & Mat. Sci.          phone 205-544-0693 
The University of Alabama in Huntsville 
Center for Microgravity and Materials Research; Huntsville, AL 35899 
and at NASA, Marshall Space Flight Center, Alabama 35812

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From: [email-masked] (William R. Penrose)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 08:10:55

>Is there really a plastic welder?  A speciallized machine?  I would sure 

Sure, there are several types.  The simplest is a soldering iron with stock 
and specialized tips.  Bryant Assembly Technologies (don't know where) makes 
production-type welders.  And then there are ultrasonic welders for high 
volume production.  We have built specialized welders for sealing gas sensors, 
as well.  Time, temperature and pressure are critical for production.  
Practice and patience are critical for hand- or custom work.

************************************************************************
Bill Penrose, Sr. Scientist, Transducer Research, Inc., 
   999 Chicago Avenue, Naperville, IL 60540.  708-357-0004, fax -1055, 
   email [email-masked]
Purveyors of fine gas sensors and 
contract R&D to this and nearby galaxies.
************************************************************************

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From: [email-masked] (Larry Waksman )
Date: 7 Jun 1995 02:06:00 GMT

In many recent articles, there has been a lot of discussion about
adhesive methods for plastics.  Just a couple of points:
1. Radio Frequency or Ultrasonic welding is effective only with
thermoplastic materials, not thermosets.  
2.  RF or Ultrasonics require certain bondline geometries.
3. Solvent welding techniques require soluble plastics, again
thermoplastics rather than thermosets.  
4. Solvent welding typically requires that both materials be plastic,
not metal or glass.  
 
Relative to bonding polyethylene or polypropylene, this can be achieved
with cyanoacrylate adhesives and an adhesion promoter.  Both are
available from Loctite.  Prism 401 (low viscosity), or other Prism
Surface Insensitive Adhesives, along with Polyolefin Primer 770 has
been found to give bond strengths of about 500 psi with low density PE
and up to 2000 psi with HDPE.  

Hope this info is helpful.

---

From: [email-masked] (Sam Skoog)
Date: 7 Jun 1995 15:23:53 GMT

:  
: Relative to bonding polyethylene or polypropylene, this can be achieved
: with cyanoacrylate adhesives and an adhesion promoter.  Both are
: available from Loctite.  Prism 401 (low viscosity), or other Prism
: Surface Insensitive Adhesives, along with Polyolefin Primer 770 has
: been found to give bond strengths of about 500 psi with low density PE
: and up to 2000 psi with HDPE.  

: Hope this info is helpful.  

--

Since you're reporting psi, I assume this is a tensile or shear value.  
For shear values in the right construction, I suppose you could see these 
high values - do you have any values for peel strength?

Sam Skoog - National Starch & Chemical
Opinions my own, not National Starch's

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From: [email-masked] (Erick Borbons)
Date: 8 Jun 1995 04:10:23 GMT

>Is there really a machine that welds plastic?  I would love a plastic 
The one I own is a Kamweld model, basically a hot air welder, used to
weld PVC and Polypropylene.  Cost me about $700.00 5 or 6 years ago.  I
don't have any more details here at home, but it comes in handy once in
a while.  There are also ultrasonic plastic welders available, but they
are pretty expensive, and have limited applications.  What types of
plastic do you want to weld?  There are all types of solvents and
techniques available.
Erick

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From: [email-masked] (William R. Penrose)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 08:25:34

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From: Susan Burgott <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Jun 1995 18:57:56 GMT

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From: Susan Burgott <[email-masked]>
Date: 5 Jun 1995 19:00:29 GMT