Subject: Soldering/Brazing Questions

From: [email-masked] (The Rifleman)
Date: 10 May 1995 04:29:52 GMT

There are two types of solder available from the particular Supplier
I'm going to use--one that melts at 1150 F and one that melts at 464 F.

The lower temperature one is rated at 16,000-25,000 psi shear force,
so it appears to be strong.

Questions:

   * How much bonding strenght (shear force resistance) will be lost
     when using the 464 F material as the temperature increases to
     near 300 F?

   * If the 1150 F material is used, I have to worry about changing
     the characteristics of the barrel steel (substrate).  (I believe
     once you go aboe 500 F, you pass the critical region.)  This means
     hardness present could be lost (if allowed to air cool), or 
     brittleness not present could set in (if quenched).  Should I 
     try to measure the Rockwell hardness of the material currently,
     and only proceed if it appears to be unhardened (since I will
     probably air quench)?

   * Besides being resistance to failure at 300 F, is there any
     advantage to the 1150 F material?

Thanks in advance.

I have read texts on brazing and texts on heat treatment, but none treat
the combined concerns that one faces when brazing is required without
altering the hardness/toughness of the underlying steel.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "If you're on a confiscation team, before you kick in the next gun owner's
        door, you've got to ask yourself. . . . Do you feel lucky!?"
---------------------- NRA  Libertarian Party  FIJA ------------------------

---

From: "D.E.Hockin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 12:52:49 GMT

>     advantage to the 1150 F material?

Your supplier should have a range of silver solders - each solder having
 a slightly different melting temperature range. Each should differ from
 the next by only about 100 degrees or so, not the 600 degrees you quote!
 This allows you to progressively assemble components, such as the parts
 of a steam boiler, without previous parts coming apart during later
 stages. Be economical - silver solder does usually contain silver, and
 is expensive!

The 464 degree solder sounds more like a version of ordinary Tin/Lead
 plumber's solder - "soft" - solder.

>altering the hardness/toughness of the underlying steel.

 Tempering temperatures are usually much lower than brazing and
 silver soldering ones.

Dave. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------
[email-masked]     | "my thoughts are mine alone, and not
			   |  those of the University"
                           |
                           | But I wouldn't mind betting they've
                           | someone working on that already!
------------------------------------------------------------------

---

From: [email-masked] (The Rifleman)
Date: 10 May 1995 20:44:43 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> "D.E.Hockin" <[email-masked]> writes:
> a slightly different melting temperature range.

Ok, who's the prefered supplier of soldering products in the U.S.?  (The
only place I know of now is Brownells.)

> plumber's solder - "soft" - solder.

Well, it's a Tin-Antimony solder--stronger than ordinary solder.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 I pledge my life to the 2nd Amendment and to the freedom for which it stands;
 one right, created by God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for ALL.
---------------------- NRA  Libertarian Party  FIJA ------------------------

---

From: [email-masked] (David William Jenkins)
Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 20:02:09 GMT

>I'm going to use--one that melts at 1150 F and one that melts at 464 F.

Following on from this thread:

The traditional method for fastening the barrels and joining ribs
on "classic" English side-by-side shotguns is with pure tin.  Its
melting point is higher than solder, and the end result is a bit
harder.

The major disadvantage is that the joint has to be _just right_,
as if it's too small the tin won't flow, and it won't fill gaps
that are too big (and "too big" means a few thou's).  

It's also less forgiving than tin-lead solder, so the work has to
be even more grease-free than for solder.  I think the traditional
flux is borax, or perhaps tallow.

It is not easy fixing things with tin!

The main advantage is that the barrels can be taken apart without
damaging the steel, and without affecting its temper.

David Jenkins              -- aka --             Lathyrus Computers Ltd
***********************************************************************
* All incorrect spelling and grammar is intentional.  Corrections are *
* superfluous and will be ignored.  So there.                         *

---

From: [email-masked] (TaiJi3)
Date: 25 May 1995 12:56:12 -0400

Hello all, Forgive me if this message goes to the wrong person. I'm new to
internet threads&paths etc. For a great low temp(450-500f.) easy flowing
solder look for "leadfree silver bearing" types like "Stay-Brite". These
are 2% silver 98% tin(don't ask how they do it). Anyway they work great on
iron and steel,stronger than lead solder too. The flux is actually zinc
chloride. Yes this will damage gun finishes if yer not careful. Good luck.
G. Gardner
TiJi

---

From: [email-masked] (Mark Fraser)
Date: 25 May 1995 18:06:42 GMT

And how does this compare with the 4% Silver solders around?
/mark

TaiJi3 ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Hello all, Forgive me if this message goes to the wrong person. I'm new to
: internet threads&paths etc. For a great low temp(450-500f.) easy flowing
: solder look for "leadfree silver bearing" types like "Stay-Brite". These
: are 2% silver 98% tin(don't ask how they do it). Anyway they work great on
: iron and steel,stronger than lead solder too. The flux is actually zinc
: chloride. Yes this will damage gun finishes if yer not careful. Good luck.
: G. Gardner
: TiJi