Subject: How fancy a table saw?

From: [email-masked] (Paul in MO)
Date: 13 Feb 1997 07:14:40 GMT

I am trying to decide just how nice of a table saw to buy.. I am a
newcomer to the hobby, but expect to get into it deep, if history is any
indication. Also, I run towards the perfectionist (read, anal
retnentive?), for what it's worth. 
	Now, reading some posts here, one would get the impression that
anything less than a $2000 saw won't really be satisfactory in the long
run for the serious hobbyist, who wants to make nice cabinetry, etc. Do
you agree? Why?
	I am looking at the Jet JWTS-10PF for about $550. It looks well
made (certainly a nicer fence than the Delta 34-670), and a good saw for
the money. I can also get it with the 50 inch extension for $720 (at
Lowe's). How useful do you find the extended fence, or do you consider it
a nice but not necessary luxury?
	I am trying to sink enough money in this saw so that I won't
regret my purchase in future years, but at the same time not go overboard
$$$$!. Thanks for any advice.

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From: Bob <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 02:21:00 -0500

> $$$$!. Thanks for any advice.

Consider the Grizzley 1023 . . . it's a very heavy-duty cabinet saw at a
fair price.   Had one for three years, and am completely satisfied with
it.   Call Grizz. & get the name/number of someone in your area who owns
one, & at least go look at it, I think you'll be impressed.   You don't
have to spend $2K to get a good saw.
-- 
						<<< BOB >>>

Q: What do you get when you cross a crooked lawyer with a sleazy
politician ?
A: Chelsea Clinton !

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:23:56 UNDEFINED

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Paul in MO) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Paul in MO)
>Subject: How fancy a table saw?
>Date: 13 Feb 1997 07:14:40 GMT

>run for the serious hobbyist, who wants to make nice cabinetry, etc. Do

Nah.  A unisaw is currently $1600, I think.  PM and General are a little bit 
more.

I can't recommend a newbie to buy this level of saw, though, unless you have 
enough money to take the loss if woodworking ain't your cup of tea.

Another disadvantage of the 3HP cabinet saws is that they are potentially more 
dangerous - which would be of concern to someone inexperienced.  Kickback is 
more likely to cause injury, since a standard CS will frequently stall before 
it sends the piece flying.

I would recommend a CS level saw, especially the Delta and Jet.  These are 
full -size saws with 27" deep cast iron tables, belt drive, and 1.5HP 
induction motors.  They will last for decades with minimal maintenance.  Price 
is $500 to $800.

Rich

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From: [email-masked] (LEE WARD)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 08:52:00 -0600

Get a HANDSAW and learn howto use it instead,Or just buy the best
powersaw-After all a decent powersaw only costs the same as a decent
computer setup. Get one with a lot of Doo-Dads on it to impress yer
friends..
                        Lee Ward

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:20:00 GMT

>computer setup. Get one with a lot of Doo-Dads on it to impress yer

Oh, and  would a TI-99 be suffice for your setup (noted the blatent show-off of
20 gigs and 21 Cd-roms below ) the "Mine is Better than yours attitude" does a
lot to help this group or others out.  Why dont you go back and play on your
computer and leave the woodworking to people who like REAL toys.
Keith

(oh, shall I add a tag line: 1 Altendorf F45 Elmo Class 3000 Sliding Panel Saw
with digital fences, servo controled fencing system, 1 Altendorf F90  2800 with
digital X and Y axis?)  OR do you even KNOW what a REAL saw is?

Care to compare your $800 comsumer JET CS with a $20,000 Altendorf Elmo Sliding
panel?  Would be a little inappropriate, don't you think?  Then try to keep the
remarks positive.

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From: [email-masked] (Jim Ledbetter)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:58:43 UNDEFINED

>retnentive?), for what it's worth. 
[snip]

You might try looking around to find either a shop that will let you try some 
different saws or that offer classes where you'd use them.

I'll probably have to settle for a good contractor saw, but if I had the $$$ 
would go for a cabinet saw.  

I personally would pay very close attention to learning to use whatever saw 
correctly, as opposed to intentionally buying something that I could overpower 
to avoid kickbacks.

As to size... it depends on what you want to do with it and how much space you 
have.   I've never heard of anyone who wished they had a smaller fence, but 
plenty have found the limits of a standard 30" and wiched for more.

good hunting.. jim

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From: Termite <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:03:07 -0500

> Get a HANDSAW and learn howto use it instead,Or just buy the best
SNIP 

HEY ASSHOLE get lost !!!!

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From: Erick Larson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:54:10 -0500

> HEY ASSHOLE get lost !!!!

Not to defend the execution of the "get a handsaw" statement but the
sentiment should not be lost. As a former newbie, I remember how
tempting it was to overbuy. There is a lot to be said for starting with
basics and learning to do them well then expanding if need demands it. A
good contractor-grade saw, used well will be a better buy than a cabinet
saw which is misunderstood and/or under-utilized. If one outgrows that
saw then move up. Buying at the top of the chain before knowing the need
is not going to be sound practice at any time, in any line of work.

-- 

Erick

  ------------------------------------------------------------
 | Erick W. Larson II         Voice : (919) 493-1657          |
 | 2106 Ward St.               email: [email-masked] |
 | Durham, NC 27707-1445              [email-masked]    |
  ------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [email-masked] (John Paquay)
Date: 13 Feb 1997 18:00:36 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
[email-masked] says...
>run for the serious hobbyist, who wants to make nice cabinetry, etc. Do

You can certainly do good work with a less expensive saw.  I guess the
best analogy is that a $500-$600 saw would be a Chevy Cavalier, while
a $2000 saw would be a Cadillac El Dorado.  Both will probably get you almost
anywhere you want to go, but the $2000 saw will get you there in style as
well as more safely.

The biggest difference at the user end is that more expensive saws like
Delta's Unisaw run extremely smoothly.  There's almost no vibration, and
the thing will be really stable and sturdy.  Inside, the castings and
parts are bigger, heavier, and assembled with more focus on precision.
A 3HP Unisaw will likely saw anything you can manage to throw at it, while
a smaller saw may whine pretty seriously with thicker hardwoods.  If you
can find a dealer who will let you try out two saws of these price ranges,
by all means do it.  The differences are striking, but only you know if they're
worth the price to you.  I can tell you that you will not outgrow a Unisaw, but
you might outgrow a contractor's type saw.  It's my opinion that a bigger saw
is a safer saw.  All too often, accidents happen when we're pushing ourselves
or our equipment a little harder than we should.

>I can also get it with the 50 inch extension for $720 (at

IMO, extended fence/table combinations are definitely worth the expense,
provided you have that much space to devote to the saw.  With a 50"
table, you can cut 4 x 8 sheet goods to any size you like.  Whether that's
something that's important to you is the salient question.  In any case,
all saws can be fitted with high-quality aftermarket fences to increase
their precision and capacity, so this isn't a decision that can't be reversed
later.

>$$$$!. Thanks for any advice.

Just keep in mind that whichever saw you decide upon, you'll probably be
sinking some cash into accessories and tooling as well.  Good carbide
blades will likely cost at least $40 each, and you'll probably want a dado set,
maybe a tenoning jig, etc.  It's pretty easy to fork over another $400-$500
just getting set up.

-- 
John Paquay
[email-masked],  [email-masked]
http://www.physics.purdue.edu/~jep/
-----------------------
Without my wings you know I'd surely die...

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From: Termite <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:19:52 -0500

Erick Larson wrote:
> tempting it was to overbuy. There is a lot to be said for starting > with basics and learning to do them well then expanding if need > demands it. A good contractor-grade saw, used well will be a better > buy than a cabinet saw which is misunderstood and/or under-utilized. > If one outgrows that saw then move up. Buying at the top of the chain > before knowing the need is not going to be sound practice at any time, > in any line of work.
> Erick
Erick,
I agree. However with rare exception the NEWBIE will not be able to cut
square joints with hand held tools. If you can't get square joints then
anything you make doesn't come together - resulting in un-neccessary
frustration for the NEWBIE.
I'm not recommending where the NEWBIE should buy in at - to many unknown
factors to consider and I knew that many would offer their advice and
opinions for Paul to consider.
Lee's advice (or the way I read it) was rude and off the mark. It read
with a tone that that I can't stand - some smart ass that thinks he
knows more than everybody, better than those who are eager to learn and
are only looking for some assistance with a little something that might
bring some joy into their lives.

But I agree with you - Termite

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From: [email-masked] (Bennett Leeds)
Date: 14 Feb 1997 21:18:30 GMT

[email-masked] writes
> A unisaw is currently $1600, I think.  PM and General are a little bit 
> more.

On the other hand, this level of saw has excellent resale value.

> Another disadvantage of the 3HP cabinet saws is that they are potentially 
> more dangerous - which would be of concern to someone inexperienced.  
> Kickback is more likely to cause injury, since a standard CS will 
> frequently stall before it sends the piece flying.

I mostly disagree. Yes, contractors saws are less powerful, but the only
safety advantage they really have is that they use motor weight to tension
the drive belt, which can slip if it has to. That said, I think many
contractor saw owners here can report on successful kickback occurances.

The guards on the cabinet saws, bad as they are, are better than the
guards on the contractors saws (exceptions will occur, I'm sure).

> I would recommend a CS level saw, especially the Delta and Jet.

This is a good recommendation. As Rich says, they are good saws, but
they also have reasonable resale value should you decide to either
quit the hobby or upgrade to something better. The world reknown Tage
Frid used a contractors saw for decades to produce some of his best work.

- Bennett Leeds
[email-masked]

Opinions are mine alone.

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From: Brian Christoff <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:57:41 -0500

> $$$$!. Thanks for any advice.

I purchased the Delta 10" Contractor's saw and have been very happy with
the purchase.  I have sawn anthing from standard 3/4" hardwood to 2 1/2"
thick oak without any problems.  Of course, the 2 1/2" oak took a little
more time and patience.  The 1.5hp motor works fine for most of my
furniture building.  I read most of the other replys and agree with a
majority of them.  I was a log like you when first researching the
possibilities.  I almost purchased a $1600 Delta cabinet saw, but
decided to go with a contractor's with a Beismeyer Fence.  I built the
side table top myself out of oak and have a great appreciation for the
workmanship.  Also, the saw doesn't take up that much space.  I paid
approximately $680 for it from a mail order catalog called 'Tool Crib'. 
I checked atleast 10 other mail order catalogs and all of the local
hardware stores carrying large equipment, even the large ones (HQ, Home
Depot).  Tool Crib beat all of them by atleast $50.  If you are
interested in more information let me know.

bchristoff@eastech 
or
[email-masked]

Good luck