Subject: Biscuit advice needed

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:02:11 -0600

To what extent would you trust a joint joined by biscuits? I want to
build a sofa table out of ash and maybe oak. I got a Freud biscuit joiner
for Christmas and bought some Queen Anne legs from Builder's Square. I
don't have a drill press or any other means of easily cutting mortises,
so of course I'm thinking I could join the apron and the legs with
biscuits. I'm planning on backing up each corner with a diagonal cleat.
Good idea? Bad idea? Let me know what you think. Your input is
appreciated.

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From: Claude Chmielewski <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:41:25 -0600

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In most applications work great. But in this case, mortise and tenon are
the only way to go. A biscuit won't give you the strength needed to
support weight.
Claude

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From: [email-masked] (Mort Tenon)
Date: 1 Apr 1997 00:09:57 GMT

>> for Christmas and bought some Queen Anne legs from Builder's Square. 
>> . . . .  I'm thinking I could join the apron and the legs with

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] says...

>the only way to go. A biscuit won't give you the strength needed to

Oh, I don't know about that. For something like a sofa table, the legs carry 
the weight and the apron keeps the top from sagging. With properly made 
corner braces, the biscuits just hold the apron in place while the braces 
keep the assembly in tension. Now a chair is another matter entirely. 

the Woodshop Notebook
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8108

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From: [email-masked] (Hodcarry)
Date: 1 Apr 1997 03:04:21 GMT

Sorry this is vague, but perhaps someone can fill in the details. Within
the last couple of years one of the major woodworking mags. printed a
article on the relative strength of biscuit, dowel and mortice joints.

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From: [email-masked] (Tim)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 03:44:15 GMT

>the only way to go. A biscuit won't give you the strength needed to

In my living room is a 36 in. square coffee table of hard maple,
aprons are 1 x 3 in butt-joined with biscuits to the legs.   I used
two #20 biscuits at each end of each apron.  No other reinforcement or
bracing was used.  This table was built partly as a test for this
method of construction.  We've used this table (and I mean used!) for
six years and the joints show no sign weakening.  Kids have crawled on
this thing, we rest our feet against the edge constantly (Pro-Fin is
incredibly durable) and its not unusual to find my 15 year old son or
myself (210 lbs) perched on the edge of it playing guitar.  I think
biscuits will be okay for your sofa table.... :)

Tim

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From: "Edward LeBlanc" <[email-masked]>
Date: 1 Apr 1997 04:01:22 GMT

The article you are referring to (I think) was in Fine Woodworking No. 111,
April 1995.  While the article specifically talked about joints for doors,
it would seem to apply to other types of construction also.  The strength
of a double biscuit joint compared favorably with the mortise and tenon
joint.  However, the ultimate recommendation of the article was to use
mortise and tenon joints for maximum durability in consideration of the
mode of failure in the biscuit joint.  BTW, the weakest joint was a lag
bolt into end grain.

Ed

Hodcarry <[email-masked]> wrote in article
<[email-masked]>...

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From: "Thomas G.Cavanagh" <[email-masked]>
Date: 1 Apr 1997 14:17:45 GMT

It was in FWW, I don't remember which issue but it was very comprehensive
and was pretty strong for biscuit joined joints.  I use them whenever I can
based on that article. :-)

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From: [email-masked] (Doug Dawson)
Date: 1 Apr 1997 16:41:34 GMT

Edward LeBlanc <[email-masked]> wrote:

>mode of failure in the biscuit joint.

   A significant point in their reasoning was the "observation" that
   at some point after the plates started to fail, the surrounding
   long-grain to end-grain joint was still holding the joint together.

   This was most definitely one of FWW's darkest moments, that this
   article ever saw the light of day.  Take it for what you will, but
   it casts the rest of their reasoning putatively as horsesh*t, in
   the view of any intelligent reader.

   Doug Dawson
   [email-masked]

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From: Mark MacDowell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 13:13:51 +0000

I have done several test cases with biscuit joints,  in most cases the 
wood (leg) broke before the joint did.  This assumes the proper 
gluing/clamping techniques of course.