Subject: Re: Do I really need my BLADE GAURD ?

From: [email-masked] (Michael Rainville)
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 14:20:13 GMT

I've been watching this thread and will throw in my opinion but will
also entertain any information that would help us out.

I've never been one to use a TS guard, for all the reasons mentioned.
Now that we are a production shop with many people using the saw, OSHA
has suggested using a splitter, anti-kickback, and guard. We
reinstalled the original on our PM66 and since then I have never had
so many close calls. Small pieces get trapped near the blade instead
of falling away and I have to reach much further to clear the stock on
the outfeed. I built an adjustable guard that can be fixed to stay
just over the material, an improvement but since it doesn't float it
doesn't meet regs. The splitter works okay if adjusted properly but we
do a lot of different operations in a day and it can't be used for
many so it is on and off, never getting properly adjusted each time.

I detest the notion that it is inherently necessary to go out and buy
and aftermarket setup. Seems about like buying a car with "all season
tires" which are fine if your winter seasons are south of the
Carolinas.

I've been in many other production shops and rarely see a complete
guard setup in place. As I said OSHA "suggested" to it us as it is in
their codes but even those guys understand the extreme limitations of
such devices in the real world.

BTW, does anyone remember the segment on TOH many years ago showing
the shake shingle mill in Canada? Now that was scary.

Mike Rainville

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From: [email-masked] (Tom Almy)
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 07:35:12 -0500

I've heard that a majority of woodworkers don't use the guard.
Perhaps that's why there are so many tablesaw accidents? Anyway,
I guess that puts me in the minority. There seems to be design
problems with many guards that make them difficult to take off and
put on as well as adjust. Mine (on a Shopsmith model 500) takes about
10 seconds to install and adjust, so it's no problem.

But then again, I also use safety glasses, a mask when sanding, ear
protection with loud tools...

Tom Almy
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (LEE WARD)
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 97 15:57:00 -0600

Yer lawyers will need that guard if you dont.
                                              Lee Ward

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From: [email-masked] (Capt Sct)
Date: 10 Feb 1997 13:48:27 GMT

My Dad never liked his blade guard.  Now I own his concertina.  He finds
it hard to play with any finger tips!

Scott
That's Captain of a Ferry Boat. NOT a Fairy Captain!

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From: [email-masked] (RAS)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:03:44 GMT

[email-masked] (Pat Nealy) wrote:
> I removed my guard a long time ago, but I am careful to never
>stand behind the stock so as to avoid kickback.

Does not standing behind the stock, prevent kickback?  
or just misses you when it does happen?

RAS

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From: Dave Peritt <[email-masked]>
Date: 10 Feb 1997 15:09:39 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> StanR, [email-masked]
writes:
>3. When you do remove the guard, retain the kerf splitter. It keeps the
>kerf from closing in on the blade and kicking back. Never apply side
>pressure behind the front edge of the blade.

I have the Delta CS.  The removal of the stock guard is difficult.  For
adjusting etc... you should be able to wing nut off the guard easily.  In
addition, removal of the guard is impossible from the splitter and
anti-kick back device.  This means your suggestion is useless on these
saws.....

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From: StanR <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 02:53:58 -0800

> anti-kick back device.  This means your suggestion is useless on these

Oh, sorry I didn't solve all the world's problems. Then make a kerf
splitter. Put it into the shop-made insert. For anti kickback, the board
wheels are much better safety device anyway. Mount them on your fence.

Stan

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From: Termite <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:11:17 -0500

> snip

Stan,
I've thought about the 'yellow buddies'. Do you use them?
It would seem to me that the one in the front would always be in the way
of your hand, or push stick, when making narrow rips, no? 
I know that you can flip the buddy up, but then it wouldn't be doing its
job - would it.
 
Anyone have any experience with these items? How do you like them?
I've been using my saw without a guard or splitter for a long time. I'm
well aware of the exposure and would like to put on a splitter and some
type of feather board arrangement or the buddies. The problem that I've
had with the splitter is that if it's not perfectly in line with the
blade AND straight up and down it causes the wood to bind, which exposes
me to more of chance of kickback than without it. 
Termite

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From: "J. Brent Taylor" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:06:01 -0500

> adjusting etc... you should be able to wing nut off the guard easily.  In

I think I found a redeeming feature of Craftsman table saws.  I can romove
or install my guard in about 5 seconds, so I have no excuse not to use it.

Brent Taylor

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From: [email-masked] (David Roseman)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:45:21 GMT

>Anyone have any experience with these items? How do you like them?

I've had a set for the TS for more than twelve years.  Yep, the front
one gets in the way ripping narrow stock, so there is a trade off for
safety.  Even with my WWII, once I stop the rip to change positions I
usually get a kerf mark.  However, they needn't be used in pairs.
Just having the back wheel in place (to the right of the blade) to
keep the material from moving toward the blade and kicking up is a
help.  For the $30 bucks/pair  they cost these days, they make alot of
sense just to have available.  They were about $70 when | bought mine,
and my set was the original design which did not come with the
adjusting screw (you had to change the pins).  I had to add adjusters
made from threaded stock, but they work fine.  dcr

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From: Termite <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:53:48 -0500

David - Thanks for sharing your experience with the 'buddies'
I guess I'm inclined to agree with you on your assement of just having
the back 'buddie' when doing narrow rips. It's for sure better than not
having it.
Guess I'll be putting mine on order this week.
Thanks !
snip

> 
> I've had a set for the TS for more than twelve years.  
snip

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From: [email-masked] (Jeff Gorman)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:09:39 GMT

StanR wrote:

~  .............................................. make a kerf
~  splitter. Put it into the shop-made insert.

I'm sorry to have to disagree, but a splitter fixed to an insert (ie
the loose item surrounding the blade) is unlikely to be sufficiently
firmly fixed to be a sound idea.

Jeff
-- 
Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire
[email-masked]

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From: StanR <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:45:16 -0800

> firmly fixed to be a sound idea.

If your insert is loose, you have a wores problem than no blade guard.
The insert should be tight in place (mine's secured with a machine
screw) and should be "zero clearence". 

To have it otherwise is hazardous, in my opinion, and should be tended
to.

Stan