Subject: Premium vs Carpenter's grade?

From: [email-masked] (Mike McDonald)
Date: 10 Feb 1997 22:54:00 GMT

I've just about finished building by workbench, so I'm now out looking at
wood to build a desk. I've noticed that a couple of the plywoods come in both
premium and carpenter's grade. The carpenter's is about 40% cheaper. Other than
that, I can't tell much difference between the two. Could some tell me what the
difference really is?

  Thanks,

  Mike McDonald
  [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Wayne R. Miller)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 05:04:30 GMT

>that, I can't tell much difference between the two. Could some tell me what the

Neither of those nomenclatures are recognized by any plywood grading
authority that I'm aware of, Mike. Sounds as if your supplier has made
up various names for his goods. I can't offer any advice as I've never
heard either of those terms used before. In very general terms,
plywood is sometimes ranked paint-grade and stain-grade, perhaps this
is what is meant by the names your supplier is using?

Wayne Miller
Badger Pond Woodworking
Harpers Ferry, WV
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:31:11 -0600

> that, I can't tell much difference between the two. Could some tell me what
the

The most familiar plywood grading system uses the letters A, B, and C to
denote veneer quality, where A is the best, i.e., no or nearly no defects
or voids. Compare the AB and BC sheets (denoting the veneers on both
sides) sold by your friendly, apparently quite poetic, dealer.

Does it matter?  Depends on how you arrange the pieces.  Example -- take
some cheap BC yellow pine ply, and rip it into 2" wide strips.	Laminate
the strips 2" face to 2" face, butcher-block style.  Pack the exposed
voids with plastic wood when cured and level the plank with a belt sander
(don't plane, this'll dull the blade VERY quickly!).  Apply Danish oil
and tell me this isn't the prettiest table top you've ever seen!

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:39:07 UNDEFINED

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Mike McDonald) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Mike McDonald)
>Subject: Premium vs Carpenter's grade?
>Date: 10 Feb 1997 22:54:00 GMT

>that, I can't tell much difference between the two. Could some tell me what the

These sound like made-up grades, but the difference should be obvious.  
Cabinet grade plywood is usually flatter, has less voids, and is veneered with 
a hardwood, ie birch, red oak, maple, etc.  Less-than-cabinet grade is classes 
as AC, BC, CDX, etc., in descending order of quality, and is usually 100% 
conifers.  You need only LOOK at the stuff to see if it is what you had in 
mind.  I generally wouldn't make anything decent with anything less than 
cabinet grade, if I were going to use plywood at all.

3/4" Birch plywood around here is $40 a sheet;  3/4" BC is about $23.

Rich

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From: [email-masked] (Mike McDonald)
Date: 11 Feb 1997 23:14:44 GMT

> 3/4" Birch plywood around here is $40 a sheet;  3/4" BC is about $23.

   A lit more info may help, although I doubt it based upon what I've seen
posted so far. The plywood I'm refering to has a hardwood veneer on both sides.
It's not the cheap pine plywood. For example, the premium 3/4" birch costs
$68.80 a sheet. The carpenter's grade 3/4" birch costs $46.59. Similarly, for
red oak, the costs are $78.40 and $49.95 respectively. All of the employees
were busy with other customers so I wasn't able to ask them. Not that it
matters at the moment. My friend is trying to talk me into using pine for the
desk. He figures I'm going to screw it up royally and I'd be better off using
the cheap stuff. He's probably right too. :-) But I'm still curious for future
projects sake.

  Mike McDonald
  [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Alan)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 04:17:45 GMT

Mike you might be dealing with solidcore plywood where the veners are
laminated onto solid planks of wood.

Alan

..On 10 Feb 1997 22:54:00 GMT, [email-masked] (Mike McDonald)

>that, I can't tell much difference between the two. Could some tell me what the

********************************************
Jesus is My Favorite Carpenter, 
  and he doesn't use a blade
         guard either.

Alan Murphy
Las Vegas, NV

********************************************

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From: Ernest Shipley <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:28:13 -0800

> > Cabinet grade plywood is usually flatter, has less voids, and is veneered with
...........snip...snip..........
>   [email-masked]
First of all, I'd suspect part of the difference to be in the thickness
of the outer hardwood veneer. The cheap stuff is probly half the
thickness of the other. The other difference is in the core and it may
have voids in it which will "show through" when you start into the
finishing process. I bought some and had that problem. Tore some apart
to see what was causing the problem and found many spots where there
were 1" wide strips 2' to 3' long with nothing there. With a really thin
veneer, these show through a finish as if some of the stain didn't
"take". Course all of this is just conjecture but I'd sure get some
explanation and do a lot of careful looking. Naturally, the missing
strips in mine didn't show on any of the edges! Hope this helps.
Ernie

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From: [email-masked] (John Paquay)
Date: 12 Feb 1997 17:47:02 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] says...
>red oak, the costs are $78.40 and $49.95 respectively....
>
>  Mike McDonald
>  [email-masked]

The grade _carpenters'_ is definitely not an official grade, though _premium_
grade has been around a long time.  Now days, hardwood-veneered
plywoods are graded with a letter/number combination, the fine points of
which I've forgotten, since I generally only buy A2, which has top quality
veneers on both sides, but definitely has a better side.  I also occasionally
buy A3 walnut ply, which has walnut veneer on one side and birch on the
back side. The A2 plywoods I see have rotary cut or bookmatched veneers
on the good face, and plain flitched, unmatched veneers on the back side.
My guesses, based on the price difference, are:

Thickness of the veneers.  Historically, veneers are cut to 1/28" thickness (don't
ask me why), but nowdays they're also widely available in 1/64" thickness.

The carpenter's grade may be A3 or lower.

The core is probably drastically different.  A2 panels are completely free of
voids.  A3 panels typically have cores of low-grade veneer or particle board.

Incidentally, the official grade is usually stamped on the edge of the panel
by the manufacturer.

-- 
John Paquay
[email-masked],  [email-masked]
http://www.physics.purdue.edu/~jep/
-----------------------
Without my wings you know I'd surely die...