Subject: Why don't we share plans?

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:57:45 GMT

I see note after note asking for plans this or that. I see some who
reply that they built one, but never offer to share the plans.  Why is
this?  Due to the binary problem?  Not knowing how to get the plans
into binary form?  Too much trouble?  No plans exist, just in your
head?

I suspect some of all  of the above, but I think we could improve the
breed with a little cooperation.  Most plans that I have seen could
use a little tinkering here and there.  Norm usually changes the basic
plan he is working with to improve the item or at least make it better
for some reason. Sharing is a good way to keep improving.

I think we are missing a terrific resource here.  I know that we can't
use binaries on this NG but there are ways that have been discussed.
I would even be happy to start a web page for that purpose if you guys
and  gals think it would be a contribution. 

I have chased all over the Web in search of plans and I usually find
nothing like I am interested in or nice pictures of something someone
built but doesn't have plans for.  I also hate to buy plans for
somthing I cannot see.  Like back issues of mags.  I sure they won't
be a total waste, but my resources are finite!

I also tried ordering info from Creative Crafts.  3 months and 2 phone
calls and no info!

Any comments??

** JOE **

<<Due to scum skulking around the Internet and sending
unwanted email when you leave a message in a
newsgroup, I use a pseudonym. To email me directly
just send it to [email-masked].>>

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:11:54 GMT

>just send it to [email-masked].>>
I have a scanner and would be willing to scan any non copy written
plans
Mike

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From: [email-masked] (Tom Gauldin)
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:44:51 GMT

Several years ago, I made a plan available in this newsgroup for an Adirondack
chair and footstool.  The file is called jake.zip and is in my ftp site
ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/pub/users/scoundrl  

Jake.zip contains a text file oriented to the newer woodworker who might be
interested in building the chair.  It contains a discussion of woods, tools
and home-made gadgets that make the chair's building easier.  There are also
individual sheets of plans for each chair part.  They are to different scales
so that they fit nicely onto 8-1/2 X 11 paper when printed.  The idea is to
print out the individual plan drawings using a normal office printer and then
redraw the plans on pattern pieces.  This is covered well in the text file.

Finally, there are pictures of each of the chair's elevations, with the pieces
color coded and referenced to the drawings.  The pictures are really helpful
in not only deciding if the chair is worth building, they're also helpful when
some text might not be perfectly clear.

>From  the plan, I've had several THOUSAND thank-you's from folks who have
downloaded the plans.  Many have written to tell me of the chair's commercial
success and/or to tell me how much they've enjoyed building it as a family
project.  The results were very rewarding.

If  you DO decide to put a plan on the web, as I did, you should be prepared
for several things:

1) You will receive a LOT of e-mail from folks either thanking you, offering
suggestions (very much appreciated) and/or asking questions.  The questions
can be as basic as, "What's an FTP site?" to, "Can I use xxxx wood?"  

Be prepared to answer even the most basic question civally- and remember that
the folks writing are WOODWORKERS and not necessarily computer gurus.  

2) You will receive a lot of requests for you to e-mail the plans to folks who
either don't know how to use FTP or WWW and/or are behind firewalls.  I keep a
copy of jake.zip handy in my HD, and just automatically attach it when
requested.  If you're paying for online time by the minute, this can be
costly.  You'll also receive some requests for you to FAX or mail the plans.
There, I merely reply by e-mail that the plans are better handled by e-mail
attachment of FTP, attaching the file.  

3) I chose the pkzip format for the file, since an .exe file worries folks
because it can be infected with a virus.  On request, I use pkzip2exe and
convert it to jake.exe when the person asking for help seems particularly new
to computers or the net.

4) Be prepared for the occasional flame.  So far, I've had two- and both were
about my humor in telling folks how to get new tools.  Out of several thousand
e-mails, that isn't too bad.

5) Since the WORLD and not just the US will get your drawings, consider a
metric version.  I chose the easy route, and the plans were dimensioned in
DECIMAL FRACTIONS, such as 10.125"  This permits easier conversion by the user
to metric, should that be desired.  Pictures and drawings in the file are in
the ,jpg format.  I also created a version of the file that I named
jake_mac.zip for Macintosh users.  Frankly, I wish I'd never attempted this.
The files get disseminated to different sites so rapidly that its impossible
to "retract" a file once its put on the web.  Almost all of the problems users
have reported have been with that file.  In retrospect, I will never again
attempt to put something on the web for a Mac- instead, I will let the Mac
user convert the DOS/Windows files as he sees fit.  

Tom

There is a directory in my site called ftp_anno.txt that lists all files.
Many deal with shops or woodworking.

>just send it to [email-masked].>>

Tom Gauldin           Here's to the land of the longleaf pine,
Raleigh NC             The Summerland,where the sun doth shine.
fax 919-676-1404   Where the weak grow strong,and the strong grow great,
                               Here's to Downhome,the Old North State.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 10 Feb 1997 03:38:50 GMT

If you have a fax/modem you can fax the plans to yourself, save the fax as
a TIF file and then attach the TIF file to your Email to the person not
the group.   This is how I send scroll saw templets to people.

Greg Babykin
SOS [email-masked]

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From: Aaron Ionta <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:50:32 -0600

Check out www.theoak.com it has a plan site/node/place ya know
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ //////////////////////
                      @
////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Aaron R. Ionta

InterNet Solutions Inc.
9625 West 76th St. Suite #150
Eden Prairie, Minnesota 55344

[email-masked]

Support Phone 888-688-8324 - Toll Free
              612-903-2020
Direct Line   612-903-2032

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From: [email-masked] (Mark Popp)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:44:48 GMT

>into binary form?  Too much trouble?  No plans exist, just in your
------snip

>and  gals think it would be a contribution. 

------snip

I'm guessing that people who have plans they are proud of want to
see them on the cover of a woodworking magazine; not available
for free on the web.  For those who can't wait that long, there
is already a site that accepts CAD plans from hobbyists or
whoever at:
       http://www.woodforum.com

BTW, plans at this site also show up on the big list at:
      http://theoak.com/gary/index.html

Mark P.

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From: Paul Worth <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:22:24 -0500

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> snip...notes about the lack of plans online...

> and  gals think it would be a contribution.
I don't know if he would be interested in hosting a library for all
our plans but Gary at http://www.theoak.com/gary has links to plans
all over the net.  If you haven't visited his site, check it now.
Anybody else willing to volunteer?

I suppose it would be easiest if we could put some guidelines on
file types, filenames, and archive formats.  I don't know how 
much disk space I could get, but if Gary isn't willing to do it,
I'd be willing to host the library as long as I have space and
time to handle it.

-=Paul Worth=-
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Mort Tenon)
Date: 11 Feb 1997 22:59:03 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] says...

>I have a scanner and would be willing to scan any non copy written

FWIW-you don't even need a scanner if your modem is a fax/modem and you have 
access to someone's fax machine. Most fax software is able to convert a fax 
into some standard image format. Send the fax in high-resolution, line 
drawing mode.

I have noticed that when most people ask to share, they want me to share my 
plans with them and they share their thanks with me!

the Woodshop Notebook
http://www.geocities.com/heartland/8108

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:46:10 GMT

On Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:44:51 GMT, [email-masked] (Tom

>ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/pub/users/scoundrl  
snip
>                               Here's to Downhome,the Old North State.
Tom, I visited your site and downloaded your plans for Jakes chair. I
will buiding a lot of outdoor stuff this spring and yours will be a
part of that.  Thanks for sharing those plans!

Joe Watkins

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:54:35 GMT

>I'd be willing to host the library as long as I have space and
That's a very generous offer. Thanks for making it.  As far as format
etc. is concerned, the exchange standard in the CAD industry is DXF.
That is usually handled by most of the CAD programs out there today.
Pictures are probably best done in JPEG format to save space. They are
compacted pretty well in that format.

** JOE **

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From: [email-masked] (Craig Treleaven)
Date: 13 Feb 1997 12:49:39 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
[email-masked] (Mark Popp) wrote:
>>I see note after note asking for plans this or that. [...]
>

We all seem to gloss over one fact:  it is really hard to draw good plans! 
I know the 'plans' I draw are crap.  

Case in point...I just finished a 3-drawer dresser that is designed to be
used first as a baby changing table.  I used a cheap CAD program to draw a
front view.  No top or side views.  I was really interested in getting the
proportions right for the overall size, the base and the drawer openings. 
It doesn't show any joinery details.  For example, the sides are solid wood
so the drawer runners need to allow for expansion and contraction.  After
some head scratching, I decided on unglued M&T at the back of this system. 
etc...  I have several such 'plans' from past projects.  They might help
some people but create a lot of questions/frustrations for others.  Putting
them out on the Web could generate more email than I'm prepared to handle. 
Tom Gaudlin's recent posting seems to bear this out.

Developing a good set of stand-alone plans would probably take as long as
building the piece.  That is not where I get my kicks.  

Craig Treleaven

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From: "D. Wayne" <[email-masked]~>
Date: 15 Feb 1997 06:40:01 GMT

They might help
> building the piece.  That is not where I get my kicks.  
[snip]
I find that drawing a good set of plans to be as much rewarding as building
the piece. You are correct in that it does take a lot of time not to
mention experience to come up with a good set of plans. Also the program
thats used to do the drawings makes all the difference in the world. I
realize there are folks who want to concentrate on building the piece and
not days on designing and drafting the blueprint or plans. I have been in
the Woodworking business for 19 years and even with my experience their is
still a lot of fore-thought and planning that goes into a project. I use
Autocad to do all my drafting which has taken me a couple of years to get
to the point of being able to turn out a plan in a reasonable amount of
time. I realize this isn't very theisable for the recreational woodworker
but as I said this is my daily job. I design all kinds of cabinets using
Autocad and while it takes time to learn to use it efficiently it turns out
an excellent set of blueprints. I worked on an Entertainment center tonight
that I am about to build for a customer and had a topview,frontview and
frontview with doors in about 2 hours. I also would like to start designing
any special projects that folks in this ng just can't seem to find the
right plans for on the Net. I only take on 1 or 2 projects at a time to
limit the e-mail flow you spoke of and also because I only work on the
plans in the evenings since I spend most of my days in my shop. If anyone
needs special plans your welcome to contact me and we can discuss your
special needs. However Autocad isn't cheap and their can be a fair amount
of time in a project depending on it complexity so my fees are based on
these issues. I think their is a lot of very knowledgeable people in this
ng and even though I'm relatively new to this ng I have gathered a lot of
informative information following along here the past few weeks. I didn't
mean to turn this into a plug but I just feel that I am one of a few people
who actually enjoys the drafting end of woodworking and if I can be of any
help to some of you folks in this ng let me know.
			Dee Stringer
			Stringer Woodworks
			[email-masked]~   (remove the ~ for e-mail)

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From: r s herman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:19:18 -0600

Dee Spingers response:
I agree- several of us recently completed a round-robin test of .dxf
translators supplied with several CAD systems. A qualified success. The
idea here was to provide a means to exchange sketches, rather than full
blown plans between woodworkers with diverse CAD systems. I still have
the summary result report for anyone interested.

Roger H.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 15:34:35 GMT

>the summary result report for anyone interested.
I thought that DXF would be the answer to the CAD type of drawings.  I
would like to see the results if you don't mind.

I also figured that JPEG would handle the picture end very well. It is
compact and available in many shareware/freeware packages.

** JOE **