Subject: Touching up Streaking?

From: [email-masked] (Michael W Ibrahim)
Date: 29 Mar 1997 21:18:47 GMT

Hello again,

I had a piece made of Walnut (part wood, part veneer) which I had color
matched to an older piece which had really lightened to a rich orange/
orange-brown.  

The finisher lightened the newer piece with bleach, then colored it
with some orange schelack (sp?) and then put a finishing coat of
laquer.  He did a pretty good job of matching the color...but I think
he made some obvious finishing goof ups.

Around some of the rounded corners he had sanded right through some
of the color...leaving long light streaks---luckily most of them are
with the grain so they aren't incredibly unsightly. But, near the edges
of the piece there is often a light line which goes against the
grain.  It looks to me like the bleach flowed along the grain and
collected at the edges...tending to lighten that area more.  The net
effect is that instead of having a nice clean edge it appears like the
edge is very jagged as if it has been worn and beat up (it hasn't).  Of
course these blemishes are now underneath the coat of protective
laquer.

When I asked the finisher about these problems, he agreed that he
probably sanded through the color on the corners but thought that
the lines near the edges may have been due to the glue used to apply 
the veneer---I don't know if I agree with this since the same problem
occurred on some of the hardwood pieces.

Anyways, I asked him to come out and touch up some of the streaking.  He
showed up with a touch up marker and made it look slightly better.  But
he didn't do much saying: (1) He would probably just turn the light lines
into dark lines and that it wouldn't look better (2) In about 6 months
as the piece ages/lightens these blemishes would disappear.  He did
suggest though that if I wanted to try I could pick up my own touch up
markers.

I have experimented with Minwax and Staples touch up markers---but
apparently this is just some type of stain which really doesn't take
with the Laquer protective coat.

So I'm now seeking suggestions.  I find the blemishes rather 
unsightly and unatural looking (ofcourse the owner is always the most
critical)...so I want them to go away.  Given that the finisher made what
I consider some obvious goof ups I don't know if I trust his advice.  

Will these white streaks disappear as the walnut lightens?  Or will they
always be a few shades lighter?  The piece is not really exposed to
a lot of sunlight so is 6 months a reasonable estimate for this to 
happen or are we talking several years?

If aging won't get rid of the streaks within a reasonable time are touch
up markers a good idea?  Is there any particular kind which can be applied
over a laquer?

Any other options or suggestions?  Maybe I should higher a different
finisher to see what he can do.

Thanks---I'll post a summary of e-mail replies.

Michael Ibrahim
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:25:56 -0500

> suggest though that if I wanted to try I could pick up my own touch up
<snipped>
> finisher to see what he can do.

I am soory for the long quotation from you and the short answer. 

First, when you say "part wood, part veneer", I am sure that what you
meant was "part solid, part veneer, ALLwood". But that is a nitpicking
matter.

Second, for your finisher to commit the atrocity of sanding through the
color and then have the audacity to try to correct this barbarism with
touch up markers (moving professionals use these toys when they are done
playing with your furniture so they can make it difficult for you to
catch their damages) is just the sort of rank unprofessionalism that
gives our trade a black eye (and a bare edge).

Third, regarding the blotching of the bleach, whatever approach this
fellow used to finish your wood, that's his problem. It should not be
yours unless his final price that he charged you to do the work reflects
that outcome. If you feel that, given the sand-through's and the
blotching, you got what you paid for, then that is one issue. I get the
impression that these things bothered you enough to risk seeking a
second opinion at rec.woodworking (it is always risky to ask a question
here because you inspire the snide and imperious among us to reply with
our patronizing and condescending thoughts).

I think, rightly so that these unexpected maladies are annoying to you
and they have now become part of the history of your wood. Touch up
markers will not correct the defect. Airbrushing with colored lacquer
would do a better job, but you must have skills in that area. The same
would hold true if you were to take some lacquer, mix some colors in it,
reduce it's viscosity with MEK, and brush it on in LONG, THIN,  and
LIGHT brush strokes, imparting color to the "streak". The trick is in
what color you are going to lay down, feathering it in, and getting it
to sit (cure) so that the texture is not disturbed (topcoating the
entire flat area helps).

These touch up procedures are not practical for someone without the
tools, materials or techniques to try. Yes, a different finisher would
be needed to undo what was carelessly done. Remember what I said about
getting what you paid for. That has to be defined and agreed upon before
the undertaking of a project. 

It amy not be that your finisher was incompetent. But certainly he did
not stand behind his work (he reminds me of a slick occupier of the Oval
Office who also will not accept any responsibility for his actions;
maybe Vince Foster ruined your walnut).
-- 
(To reply, change "webspam" to "webspan" in my e-mail address.)
-------
Daniel

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From: [email-masked] (JaneAustin)
Date: 30 Mar 1997 13:48:24 GMT

When you say 'MEK', I assume you're referring to Methyl ethyl ketone?  
While I don't have the hazard data here, if memory serves me correctly,
this is very nasty stuff.

I don't want to be a bore on the subject of chemical safety, but with all
the highly toxic chemicals mentioned in this forum lately, someone is
bound to try to use them and injure themselves because they're not fully
aware of its potential dangers.

When you buy/use any of these chemicals, REALLY read the warnings. They're
not just there for the chemicals company's legal protection (although that
is a major reason).  They're also there to help you protect yourself. A
lawsuit is not going to bring you back your eyesight, restore your
scorched lungs, or eliminate cancers.

There have been countless posts regarding blades guards, but so few on
chemical safety.

>Subject: Re: Touching up Streaking?
>From: [email-masked]
>Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:25:56 -0500
>Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:57:29 -0500

I am sure that your warnings are appreciated by all (even me, but as you
read on you may forget to be mindful of that). However, your message
lacks balance.

You cannot do the kind of repair to finishes without using some
dangerous chemicals. I wonder if you post the same obvious warnings to
those who want to use a bandsaw, or a dremel, or any hand tool for that
matter?

Res ipsa loquitar -- the thing speaks for itself. Maybe we should all
cower under a rock if we cannot find a cave to hide in. I would venture
a bet that when you apply your nail polish that you do not read the list
of ingredients, namely the lovely ketone you are so afraid of. 

Is it very nasty? Compared to what? It is a dangerous chemical. The
amount that one might come in conatct with is certainly not enough to
cause his cells to start to mutate or to replictae in some uncontrolled
fashion in the form of cancer. It takes a lot to get mice to do this!
This is not carbon tetrachloride we are talking about -- a miracle
degreaser (which is quite dangerous and a proven cause of cancer). This
is not some radon gas or radioactve isotope. This is not asbestas (the
only known cause of mesothelioma, atype of lung cancer). It is a simple
compound that is already in your nail polish and in my lacquer. All I
was suggesting is that it will make reduce the viscosity of the lacquer
if only a little more of it were added, so that the touch up will not be
too heavy-bodied.

Perhaps I should have suggested acetone. (Do you know that when we
urinate, we eliminate from our bodies small amounts of acetone?) Acetone
is more flamable than MEK.

I think that grown adults (it is not always a repetition of words to use
"grown" and "adult" together) know how to take precautions. Not only
that, most of us schmucks who work with this great smelling crap know
what we are up against. So let's see all the obvious warnings that you
are going to post on the use of hand tools. And let's see the less
obvious warnings and more significant dangers on the exposures to wood
dust (another proven carcinogen) that should want to  warn us about.

There was a whole thread on MANY of the dangers of "Hazards in the
Workplace", chemical and mechanical. It is too bad that you changed the
subject name so that it could not be threaded with the original
question, and my detailed answer so that there would at least be some
better context to your contribution, than the very snipped quotation
that you provided.
 
No one is trivializing the dangers involved in the finishing trade. But
your concern is off-base, and, I suspect an AlGore corruption (remember
his silly book on the enviroment that he made money on?).

---

From: jason Steward <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:57:43 +0000

Michael:

I make my living by taking care of what manufacturers and craftmen 
screw up on.  The only way to really hide (and hide is all you can do 
to this once its under finish) is to apply some color mixed with or 
over coated with lacquer. I have a powder stain set of about 50 
different colors, that I mix with the appropriate gloss lacquer.  I 
then feather this in on top of the finish to lessen the visibility of 
the problem.  This can also be done with some liquid (solvent based) 
stain, dried then rewetted with lacquer.  If it doesn't look right or 
you make a mistake, immediately wipe it off with a slightly damp rag 
of lacquer thinner.  Be really careful if you try to take it off, too 
damp a rag will take off you existing finish.  If you just use color 
markers, the color will come off next time you polish.  There are 
other techniques, but they require more skill and equipment.
Good Luck,

jhs

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