Subject: Delta sliding table.

From: Paul <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 05:30:25 -0600

Anybody have the delta sliding table ?  Looks like a neat idea.  How is
the fit and finish and more importantly the accuracy ?

---

From: [email-masked] (Jeff Joslin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:38:18 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] wrote:

>Anybody have the Delta sliding table ?  Looks like a neat idea.  How is

I asked the sliding table question about 9 months ago.  Below are some
of the responses I got.  I have edited them pretty heavily to conserve
bandwidth.

This past weekend I went to the Ottawa wood show and bought the
Mule sliding table.  I have it installed but not aligned - I'm going to
do that tonight - watch for a posting in the next day or two with a
review.

For now though, here's the summary of the Mule:
Cheap (about $250 US); well-made; ugly, not too hard to
install; fussy to align; supplied nuts, bolts and washers weren't
sufficient; the company owner who did the wood-show demo is a
fast-talking salesman type which almost made me change my mind
about buying it.  Takes less space than the Delta, and much less than
the Excalibur.  Crosscut fence looks to be somewhat tricky to 
fine-tune.  One disadvantage of the Mule is that it's only available
at woodworking shows or through mail-order.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

=====
From: [email-masked] (BRADSTRUM)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Review of Delta sliding table
Date: 6 Jan 1997 16:29:13 GMT

Several people have asked so I thought I wold give my thoughts on the
Delta Sliding Crosscut Table 34-555.

I put this table on my 2 HP Delta tilting arbor saw (not the Unisaw)
a couple of months ago.

With the 2 exceptions noted below the sliding table worked exactly as I thought
it would when I ordered it. Crosscutting of really long and heavy stock 
was a lot easier than with a cuttoff jig or an enhanced miter gauge.

But....

The first thing that I learned is that the sliding table brackets would
not fit over the access door which is on the left side of the saw. I had to
order a new door (about $40) from Delta before I could finish installation
of the table. The sliding table rails could not clear the original door. 

In order to open the new access door I can't just remove the sliding table
(which is easy) but I also have to remove all of the mounting hardware for
the slding table. This means that I will have to go through all of the
fine tuning that is involved with installing the table the first time.
This may not be a problem with the Unisaw if the access door is on the
right side of the saw.

The other thing I don't like about the sliding table is that the mounting
harware (slide rails) come out in front of the saw and are right where
I like to stand when I use the saw. 

If I could do it over again I would not buy this table because  of 
the two problems documented here even though it it really nice to use.

I would rather have contracted out the work of cutting large stock and/or
put the money ($329) towards a radial arm saw with a relatively wide capacity.

Todd Bradstrum
=====
 May 14 16:10:00 1996
 From:        Jeff (J.)  Joslin
 Subject:     Sliding tables for table saw: summary

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
(Jeff Joslin) wrote:

>Lately I've had some frustrating experiences making accurate tablesaw 
>crosscuts on long stock.  The lousy miter gauge that came with my 
>Delta 10" Tilting Arbor saw has a front face that isn't anywhere 
>close to flat, and the face is too small for referencing long stock.
>
>On American Woodshop the other day I noticed that Scott was using the
>new Delta sliding table.  It looks to be fairly compact, and seems to
>work well.  But it was a bit hard to tell how accurate it is, and how
>well-made it is.  I phoned the local Delta purveyor to find out whether
>it's compatible with my Delta Tilting Arbor saw (it is), and how much
>it costs: a whopping $655 Canadian, or about $490 U.S., which is roughly
>twice what an Accu-Miter costs.  But I'm still considering it.

>The dealer doesn't keep a Delta ST in stock, and I've never seen one up 
>close and in person anywhere around here (Ottawa), so if any of you have 
>one, or have even had a good look at one, I'd appreciate your opinions.
>
>Also, if you have experience with any other commercially-available 
>sliding tables or aftermarket miter gauges, I'd appreciate hearing about
>them as well.

It's been a few days since I posted this, and there have been a number of
replies, both private and public.  I'm summarizing the replies here.

=====
>If you are careful you can make a sliding miter cut off for your saw, 
>with
>holddowns if you like, which should allow you to cut 45 degree miters 
>with no problem.  If you want more versitility you can either purchase or 
>make
>a fully adjustable to allow you to cut below and probably above the 45 
>degree, if you add a little ingenuity. 

My response:  I'm primarily concerned about 90 degree cuts, not 45 degree
cuts.  Also, I'm trying to buy a solution rather than make a solution,
for the simple reason that my shop time is precious, and I want to spend
more of my time making end products rather than more stuff for the shop.

=====
>I've seen the Delta sliding table at my local dealer for about $350 US.
> I was very impressed with the sliding action, but for that price, I
>would consider a used RAS dedicated to crosscutting and a good crosscut
>blade.

My response: Wow, $350 U.S. is a much better price - I've bought little
>from  the local Delta outlet, which I find to be overpriced.  Looks like
they really _are_ overpirced.  As for a RAS, I don't want to dedicate the
space.  The additional space taken up by the sliding table is pretty small,
since it replaces an extension table on my saw.

=====
>I paid >$500 for my sliding table and it came a free table saw.  Check out
>the Ryobi.  I could not resist this.  Its hard to comprehend spending more
>for a cross-cutting accessory than for a whole tablesaw or for that matter
>my dream machine,  the DeWalt 705   12" Compound Mitre Saw.

My response:  I'm not impressed with the Ryobi - if you're happy with
yours, that's fine, it just means we have different priorities.  As for
the DeWalt, yeah, I'd love to have one, and I'd seriously consider one
before I bought an expensive sliding table.  Space is still an issue though.

=====
>Trend Lines has it for US$319 in a current catalog.

My response:  Holy cow!  Thanks for letting me know.

=====
>Sliding tables aren't that difficult to build.  Do it yourself, and save big 
>time. The one I use all the
>time is made of 1'/4" masonite w/ UHMW sliders.

My response:  For a couple of years I've had the plans for a solidly built
sliding table, but I've never had the time to build it.  Right now money
is easier find than spare time is.

=====
>You can probably screw a piece of straight wood to the face of your mitre
gauge,
>carving and/or shimming the back of the wood as necessary to compensate for the
>lack of flatness. 
>You could also build a crosscut sled, ... I swear by the crosscut
>sled that I built about three years ago. I have successfully crosscut 12 foot
>8/4 maple boards using this sled and a couple of clamps to hold the board to
>the sled.

My response:  Screwing an auxiliary fence hasn't worked for me in the
past because no matter how carefully I shim it, it loses its setting after
a few uses.  (Considerable shimming is needed to get it flat and square,
and the shims get knocked out of place.  I don't really want to glue stuff
onto my miter gauge).

The crosscut sled is a good idea, but again, I'm looking primarily for an
off-the-shelf solution.  On second thought, building a sled isn't a big
job at all - it's only three pieces (board, miter-slot runner, and fence).
Yes, definitely worth considering.

>You could consider building a cutoff box.  If done right, it will
>be more accurate than anything commerically available.

My response:  I already have a cutoff box (similar to a sled, but it has both 
front and back fence, and it rides in both miter slots, whereas the sled lies 
completely on one side of the blade).  My cutoff box was one of my very 
first projects with my tablesaw, and it's not very accurately made.  As a 
result, I don't use it that much.  But it can be adjusted, and a piece of 
laminate on the bottom would help it slide easier.
=====

So, in conclusion, y'all think I'm crazy for even thinking of getting a
sliding table.  Well, I'm still considering it, but I'm also considering 
some other options.  Maybe tonight I'll spend some time realigning my
old cutoff box.  That will handle about 2/3 of my problems,  and building
a sled will handle the boards too wide for the box.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to reply.  Your efforts are
appreciated.

No-one gave any information about the Delta sliding table.  If you have
any experience with it, please send me some e-mail.

Jeff

-- 
Jeff Joslin                              All opinions mine.
=====
 May 16 00:32:00 1996
 To:          Jeff (J.)  Joslin 
 From:        [email-masked]'  
 Subject:     Re: Sliding tables for table saw: summary

In article <[email-masked]> you write:
>In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
>(Jeff Joslin) wrote:
>
>>[... snip ...]
>>
>>On American Woodshop the other day I noticed that Scott was using the
>>new Delta sliding table.  It looks to be fairly compact, and seems to
>>work well.  But it was a bit hard to tell how accurate it is, and how
>>well-made it is.  I phoned the local Delta purveyor to find out whether
>>it's compatible with my Delta Tilting Arbor saw (it is), and how much
>>it costs: a whopping $655 Canadian, or about $490 U.S., which is roughly
>>twice what an Accu-Miter costs.  But I'm still considering it.

I've seen it and the Accu-Miter; never used either.  The ST looked
and felt good.  I wouldn't mind one, but not at that $$$.  I've also
handled the Excalibur and took a good look at the Mule (see below).

I own an Accusquare Fence (no connection to Accu-Miter) from Mule. 
It's a Canadian company that has a fence, sliding table and some
other things.  I'm VERY impressed with the fence (bought it at the
wood show in Feb.) and if their sliding table is built as well, then
I think there's one in my future somewhere.  The ST costs about $325,
which makes it a whole lot better deal than an Accu-Miter in my
books!

You can reach Mule Cabinetmaker Machines at:
    RR2, Norwood,
    Ont. K0L 2V0

    1-705-778-5585

Tell Dave Woodland (or his wife, who often fields the calls) I sent
you.  I don't get anything from it, but I owe him a favor.  I figure
that recommendations are one way to pay it back.  :-) And who knows,
maybe he'll give you a break because its a recommendation.  Stranger
things have happened.

OTOH, I wish it Mule could handle 48" for panel cuts -- it'll only go
to 28" or maybe 33" as far as I know (maybe there are bigger models,
I know they have 3 sizes of fences: 24", 36" and 48" -- I've got the
48").  Even the Delta can only go to 36".  The only one that I know
can go to 48" (without getting into the serious $$$) is Excalibur
(also Canadian made).  The Excalibur is avaible from Tool Trend in
Toronto (big mailorder place for Norm-like guys -- I got my Delta
drillpress and CMT dado set from them, plus lots of smaller items). 
It costs about the same as the Delta, but is a lot wider (takes up
amuch more room).

=====
 May 16 08:30:00 1996
 To:          Jeff (J.)  Joslin  
 From:        [email-masked]'
 Subject:     Sliding Tables

Jeff,

I read your sliding table summary, and was surprised to see the small number 
of responses you got.  Not too long ago I was in the market for a used table 
saw, and many of the professional models I encountered were equipped with a 
sliding table.  This gave me the impression that these were fairly common, 
especially for cutting sheet goods in shops that did not have a panel saw.

Anyway,  I haven't seriously looked at these but I did briefly look at the 
delta as well as the Excaliber at a local dealer.  The excaliber sticks in 
my mind the most because the salesperson sat on the corner of the table, and 
it slid just as easily with him on it as it did with no weight on it.  I was 
pretty impressed!  I would recommend checking out both of these before 
buying.  I am not aware of any others in the $300 - $500 price range.  Good 
Luck!

Bob Gray
([email-masked])
=====
 May 16 09:28:00 1996
 To:          Jeff (J.)  Joslin
 From:        [email-masked]'
 Subject:     Re: Sliding tables for table saw: summary

I posted this awhile back. I to was looking to buy a solution and I
did.  The Excaliber is canadian by origination but now in the US over
the border.  I have been fairly happy with it ( it is not like a
dedicated sliding table saw but those cost much more)  As I say I
didn't think much of the Delta after "playing" with it a the local
Trendlines.  The Robland looks more substantial but I have not heard
good things.  (goes out of alignment often because of design)  Plus I
think it costs around  US$900.  To sum it up I still like my Excaliber
for what it is and I routinely rely on it to square up panel stock for
cabinets etc.  Never any problems and easy to adjust if you need to.
I also use it as a square reference for dadoing things like lap joints
with excellent results.  I leave it set up all the time but you can
take the cross cut beam off and just have the carriage for exta table
support.

Good luck

I bought the excaliber before the delta was available.  Once you get
it set up it is quite accurate.  I dont like the Delta by comparison
but then again it is cheaper. Robland makes a sliding attachment but I
heard that it isnt very solid.  The excaliber is no spacesaver and
cost about $500.  You could always get a Ryobi with the sliding table
but then you would have to through away the saw (in my opinion) and
you would be left with a cheap sliding table.  None of these are the
equivalent of the real thing.  But they work.  Use a $20,000 Martin or
a SCMI or other commercial saw and you will be spoiled.

=====
 May 16 10:59:00 1996
 To:          [email-masked]'
 From:        Jeff (J.)  Joslin
 Subject:     Re: Sliding tables for table saw: summary

In message "Re: Sliding tables for table saw: summary", you write:
>
>You can reach Mule Cabinetmaker Machines at:
>    RR2, Norwood,
>    Ont. K0L 2V0

OK, thanks.  I'll follow up on this, I think.  The more I think about
the problems I'm trying to solve, the more I think that a sliding table
is the best solution for me.

>If US$350 is good, would you take a chance on CDN$325 with a lifetime
>warrenty and a 90 day money-back satisfaction guarentee? Try the
>Mule.

Yup, very tempting.

=====
Jeff
 May 16 11:15:00 1996
 To:          [email-masked]'
 From:        Jeff (J.)  Joslin 
 Subject:     Re: Sliding tables for table saw: summary

In message "Re: Sliding tables for table saw: summary", you write:

>I posted this awhile back. I to was looking to buy a solution and I
>did.  The Excaliber is canadian by origination but now in the US over
>the border.  I have been fairly happy with it ( it is not like a
>dedicated sliding table saw but those cost much more)  As I say I
>didn't think much of the Delta after "playing" with it a the local
>Trendlines.  The Robland looks more substantial but I have not heard
>good things.  (goes out of alignment often because of design)  Plus I
>think it costs around  US$900.  To sum it up I still like my Excaliber
>for what it is and I routinely rely on it to square up panel stock for
>cabinets etc.  Never any problems and easy to adjust if you need to.
>I also use it as a square reference for dadoing things like lap joints
>with excellent results.  I leave it set up all the time but you can
>take the cross cut beam off and just have the carriage for exta table
>support.

Yes, I'm going to be visiting my parents this weekend, and there's a
tool store near them that carries Excalibur.  I'm planning to go there
to check out the Excalibur ST.  I _am_ concerned about the extra width
required by the Excalibur vs. the Delta, though.  I'll take some
measurements in my shop to see if I have room.

=====
 May 16 12:31:00 1996
 To:          Jeff (J.)  Joslin 
 From:        [email-masked]'
 Subject:     Re: Sliding tables for table saw: summary

> So, in conclusion, y'all think I'm crazy for even thinking of getting a
> sliding table.  Well, I'm still considering it, but I'm also considering
> some other options.  Maybe tonight I'll spend some time realigning my
> old cutoff box.  That will handle about 2/3 of my problems,  and building
> a sled will handle the boards too wide for the box.

I've had the Delta sliding table on their Contractors saw for about a year. 
I've been very happy
with it.  I bought it mainly for doing case work (making 2' shelves out of
a 1x16x8' piece of
plywood, etc.)  It does that wonderfully.  Just last night I need a 9
degree cut on the end of a
bunch of 2' x 4' pices of plywood.  No problem.  I set the fence to 9
degrees, set the stop at the
correct length and zipped right through them. 

If I had more room and more money, I would probably like the Vega (I think
that's who makes it) on
a Unisaw of General.  However, for the money and size, I think the Delta
sliding table is a good
product.

One caveat.  For doing extremely accurate work (picture frames and the
like), I would still
probably use a cutoff saw or a special cutoff box that slide in both tracks
on the table saw.

Hope this helps.

LeRoy Michaelson, Fusion Concepts

-- 
Jeff Joslin                              All opinions mine.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 12 Feb 1997 14:04:46 GMT

As another option, has anyone used the Sears sliding table on their
tablesaw?

Just looking at one poorly installed floor sample, it looks a bit flimsy,
but maybe it works well when installed with care oneself.  It is just
$150, so much less than the Delta, etc., competition.

BTW -- no, I am not a Sears fan, since my old Sears router, in an early
iteration of the magic self-adjusting height version, nearly ruined a
carefully built TS extension table's router insert cutout, which was the
very last job requested of it before its replacement by a very excellent
Hitachi M12V.

Regards, 
                Robb
+                                 +                                   +
      Robert B. Young                 'Woodview'
  [email-masked]      Pittsford, New York                       
                                            (716) 442-7830
+                                 +                                   +   
  
" . . . there is only one great thing,
             The only thing,
        To live to see the great day that dawns
             And the light that fills the world."
                                  - - Old Inuit Song          
+                                 +                                   +

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 1997 13:33:45 GMT

Has anyone used the Sears sliding table on their
tablesaw?

Regards, 
                Robb
+                                 +                                   +

+                                 +                                   +
   Robert B. Young, MD            'Woodview'

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:50:50 UNDEFINED

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] writes:
>From: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: TS sliding table.
>Date: 28 Mar 1997 13:33:45 GMT

>$150, so much less than the Delta, etc., competition.

That's still about $145 more than a cutoff jig made from scraps, and it's 
probably less accurate.  

Rich
Just say I've never understood why people pay big bucks for these things.

And also just say why is it that people feel the need to end all their posts 
with these absurdly-long signatures?  It must be the trite, self-important 
sayings, I guess:

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 1 Apr 1997 15:20:46 GMT

>>  [email-masked]      Pittsford, New York                       

Rich,

I've really appreciated a lot of your posts, but felt a bit hurt at your unkind attitude this time.  We are mostly on rec.ww (or the OldTools list, or anywhere else on the Net) wanting to help,
seeking good advice, and sharing what we can.
 
I haven't even found the need for a cutoff table yet, but I'd posted this a while back when people were discussing the Delta vs. Excalibur sliding tables.  Didn't get any opinions then, so I just
reposted it.  I'm afraid that in the process of copying my file, I accidentally doubled my sig.  It's just a saying that holds a lot of meaning for me, and may or may not for whoever else notices it.
 It probably fits better on rec.backcountry, which I also follow closely.

But it isn't trite drivel, and I sure don't feel self-important.  Sorry for the extra bandwidth accidentally used, though, especially if you have to pay by the amount you receive.

Best regards,

                     Robb

Just say (TM) -- Point of the question is that an accurate sliding table is worth more than a cut-off jig, enabling any angle to be cross-cut in long stock.  I don't have $400 or more to spend for an
upscale one, but $150 for a serviceable unit might be worthwhile.  Didn't receive any opinions the first time I asked, about a month ago, so maybe nobody has any experience with this version.
     But ,,, I always value input from friends and colleagues here in rec.ww.

[See sig. above.]

+                                 +                                   +

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 2 Apr 1997 03:07:46 GMT

Rich,

Thanks a lot for writing back.  You make a good point about sigs, and I'll try a condensed version.  I too often fire something off before my brain fires on, so I can appreciate your reply.

Good to know you,
          and
Good Woodworking!          [Woops--did I just commit copyright infringement? :^) ]

             Robb
                                           'Woodview'             [email-masked]
     Robert B. Young        Pittsford, New York            (716) 442-7830      
               +                                +                                    +
" . . . there is only one great thing --- the only thing:
 To live to see the great day that dawns,  And the light that fills the world."

+                                 +                                   +