Subject: Sharpening a plane

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 06:07:27 GMT

Does anyone have info on those little $20-$30 jigs that are sold to
hold the iron in the right angle while running it over a stone?  Are
they of any benefit?

I have just acquired a couple of planes and I need to learn about
sharpening.  I have searched my local library and bookstores but
couldn't find anything on the subject.  I have seen some in WoodHaven
and others. I am going to have to order one of those. In the meantime,
what is your opinion on the best way to go on stones (type, grit,
length and width)?  Are the 3 stone systems the best way to go??  Is
diamond better than the natural stone? All advice appreciated.

** JOE **

<<Due to scum skulking around the Internet and sending
unwanted email when you leave a message in a
newsgroup, I use a pseudonym. To email me directly
just send it to [email-masked].>>

---

From: [email-masked] (Garrett Lambert)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:21:38 GMT

I'll e-mail you a fascinating  piece on "scary sharp". All you need is
a piece of plate glass and some very fine grit (1200-2000) paper.

For in-depth info, check your library for the book on sharpening by
Leonard Lee.

---

From: Jack Juhola <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 09:04:31 -0800

> hold the iron in the right angle while running it over a stone?  Are

I've had great success sharpening plane irons and chisels using a system
I got from Woodsmith Shop (the Woodsmith magazine folks in Des Moines --
www.augusthome.com). Their kit includes a combo 1000-6000 waterstone, a
flat steel plate, some 220 grit silicon carbide powder, and an angle
guide (which I tossed...IMO, the Veritas unit is much better). The kit's
a little pricey -- about $75 or so -- but comes with outstanding
instructions. Even a klutz such as I can follow them and get really,
REALLY sharp tools.  As the veggie cutter salesman says, "Slices a
tomato so thin, it only has one side!"

Jack J.

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From: [email-masked] (Mark Popp)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 16:32:35 GMT

Before you buy one of those jigs, you might try another method
that works well with stones.  I call it the praying hands method,
because you hold the stone lenghwise in one hand and the plane
iron lengthwise in the other.   Keeping your elbows at your
sides, and your wrists ALMOST rigid,  you move your hands
back and forth (left and right).  It's easy to watch the angle
and there's something about the motion that keeps the iron
aligned to the stone almost automatically.  Press the iron
against the stone with 1 or 2 fingertips placed right behind
the center of the cutting edge.

I've used a homemade jig, and found that you have to adjust it
whenever you switch to a stone that's not the same thickness.
If the stone's not flat or if it rocks on the bench, that's a
problem.    You don't have those problems with sheet
abraisives, but I still prefer the praying hands method.
You can do a micro-bevel by adjusting your  wrist position
slightly.  That goes for the slight rounding of the corners
as well.  It's easier to do it sitting down.

Mark P.

---

From: John O'Brien <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 13:28:14 -0500

> diamond better than the natural stone? All advice appreciated.

Joe,
I recently equipped my sharpening station with a veritas bench grinding
jig
which when used with the sliding plane/chisel holder, grinds a fairly
accurate
and square edge. I then go to work on the stones. I now use the Veritas
honing
guide to help hold the plane irons at a fixed angle. It works pretty
good. I
like the fact that with just a crank on a knob, I can change the angle
ever so
slightly and hone a micro-bevel. This jig is probably one of the best on
the
market and also the most expensive ($25-30). However, I also found some
problems
with it as well. In order to get the chisel tightened down so that it is
secured
firmly in the jig, you really need to crank down on the brass knob. Then
when it
comes time to remove the chisel, it become VERY difficult to loosen this
knob.
Once set up, the jig works great when transfering from stone to stone.
Only takes
a few minutes to hone. Actually takes more time to get the chisel
properly positioned in the jig.
I only went to this jig after I became somewhat adept at sharpening by
hand
without the aid of fixtures. I believe this would be a good practice to
learn
before you rely too heavily on these types of jigs.

John

     "Measure with a Micrometer, Mark with Chalk, Cut with an Axe"

	      ------------------------------------------
              | John O'Brien                           |
	      | Johnson & Johnson Clinical Diagnostics |
              | Rochester, NY                          |
              ------------------------------------------

---

From: Bob Zajicek <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 14:15:59 -0500

[email-masked] wrote:
>Hey, Joe!

Yes, IMO they are worth it for a variety of reasons...one being that
they are about the only way to get a staight edge and a consistent angle
on a plane iron that I'm aware of. Like anything else, some are better
than others and price is no guarantee. It's a good idea to shop around
and examine these up close and personal, if possible. They don't cost
that much, but after you've bought several that don't meet your
requirements, it adds up.

These jigs tend to come in two basic styles...some have the guide/blade
clamp and wheel/roller assembly as a single unit. The roller on this
type will ride directly on the stone. These are a bit easier to control,
in some cases, but you're going to lose as much as 3-4 inches of surface
on your stone as the blade and guide will take that space, resulting in
a shorter sharpening stroke. The unit made by Veritas works like this.
Check 'Dejanews' under Veritas... was a good thread on this unit here a
month or so back. I've had one for about 6-7 years and it works well
enough. Has one nice feature that allows you to set the secondary bevel
with the turn of the knob rather than unclamping the blade and
readjusting the angle, etc., etc...       

The other type has the blade clamp at one end of an arm and the rollers
on a threaded rod on the opposite end of the arm, at a right angle. (I'm
getting a headache just thinking about this)... The rollers do not ride
on the stone with this style, so most of the surface area is usable,
allowing a longer sharpening stroke. The adjacent surface that the
rollers ride on needs to be flat and level, however. I have one of this
type also. Think it's 'made' by General, but there are others... this
unit works well, once you've got it set up right. The angle for the
secondary bevel will require you to change the height of the blade by
adjusting the threaded rod, etc..

Hope this helps...good luck to you!
Cheers, Bob
Cheers, Bob

---

From: Steve Brewster <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 18:31:02 -0600

> hold the iron in the right angle while running it over a stone?  Are

I purchased a $15 honing guide from Grizzly and a $15 one from Stanley.
Couldn't get the Grizzly one to hold a 1/4" chisel securely. The Stanley
was better in that regard but I easily overtightened it and popped the
rubber tightening grommets out.  Stone thickness is not an issue with
these types of honing guides.  Had my eye on the Veritas model - looks
more substantial.  For now, I'm just doing it by feel;first on the
grinding wheel and then on a coarse carborundum stone and flip over to
the fine side to finish up.  Gives me a very sharp edge that seems to
work well.

Good Luck!
Steve

---

From: Mike Schwarz <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 19:50:57 -0500

I tried the veritas honing guide and I returned it.  It was hard to keep
my chisel perpindicular while clamping them down.  I bought a honing guide
that clamps the chisels/plane irons on the sides.  This way the surface
being sharpened remains square to the rest of the iron.  (Hold the iron to
a try square and there are no light gaps)  The honing guide I bought was
>from  Woodcraft (#03A21) for 14.99 plus S&H.  1-800-225-1153.  the only bad
thing is you can't sharpen skew chisels

Hope this helps,
Mike

if you need more clarification, just ask.

---

From: James Foster <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:25:21 -0600

> hold the iron in the right angle while running it over a stone?  Are

IMHO they are. You can sharpen without them, but they insure consistency
throughout the sharpening process, and that is one of the keys to 
a good edge. The General jig is commonly available. Don't get it. 
Hold out for the Veritas jig. The angle setting jig that is sometimes
packeged with it is good, but you can use whatever technique you want
to get the initial angle set correctly.

> couldn't find anything on the subject.  

Really?!? Try Lenord Lee's "Complete Book of Sharpening" for starters.
Available from, of course, Lee Valley Tools. Juranich's "Razor's Edge
Book of Sharpening" is good for general principles. Some of the 
Fine WoodWorking collections (like "Planes and Chisels") have sections
on sharpening and tuning up planes.  

I have seen some in WoodHaven
> diamond better than the natural stone? All advice appreciated.

Garret was going to mail you some SS (tm) information. Or you can
go to 

http://www.cnh.mv.net/ipusers/gunterman/scary.htm

and/or check out DejaNews for previous discussions on the process.

---

From: James Foster <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 14:50:06 -0600

> comes time to remove the chisel, it become VERY difficult to loosen this

Try gluing on some 220 grit paper to both the jig and clamp with
contact cement. Works a lot better. 

> properly positioned in the jig.

Yeah. I'm going to make a "jig for the jig" to help in getting the
blade aligned square.

From ejb@, at, primenet, dot., com Wed Apr  2 12:16:08 EST 1997
Article: 194017 of rec.woodworking
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From: Ed Bennett <"ejb"@ at primenet dot. com>
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: ALIGN-IT or TS-ALIGNER? >Objective< opinions sought.
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 12:05:02 -0700
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JaneAustin wrote:
> 
> ALIGN-IT (I think that might be the wrong spelling, I don't have the ad in
> front of me) is $139 and can check your table saw, jointer and other tools
> within a .001". Has anyone compared TS-ALIGNER to ALIGN-IT?  Also, it's
> curious that either one could be patented; I have the SPI catalog and it's
> filled with dial guages and hold-downs etc. It seems that all one has to
> do is just put the parts together and you have your own "TS-ALIGNER" or
> "ALIGN-IT" to the precision and accuracy that you're willing to pay for
> (some of the SPI dial guages are frightfully expensive, but they're not
> made in China and meet Federal specs; perhaps not necessary for
> woodworking).
> 
> Am I missing something obvious here?
> 
> Jane

Jane,

I'll try to be as objective as possible given that TS-Aligner is my
product.  Here goes...

Patentability: Neither the TS-Aligner or the A-Line-It hold any
patents.  You're right, measurement and alignment techniques have been
public domain for quite some time.  The rule says that the new
application of an "old" technology must produce a unique and unexpected
result to merit a patent.  Getting your tablesaw, drill press, or
jointer aligned properly is not unique or unexpected, it's a pretty darn
obvious result.  A few years back a patent was awarded to the inventor
of the Infinitii (yet another woodworking alignment tool which appeared
over a year after my TS-Aligner).  They even tried to exact a royalty
>from  me (tee, hee, hee).  I sent a letter refusing to comply and never
heard from them again (read: the patent wouldn't hold water on a tennis
court let alone a court of law).

Ease of Reproduction: You're right again, if all you want to do is
measure runout and align a blade then you might as well just get a stick
and a dial indicator and use your miter gauge to guide it in the slot. 
That's essentially what you get with the A-Line-It (ie: spend $139 if
you want to get it in nice anodized aluminum).  If you want to measure
and set angles then you're in a whole different realm.  The feature that
allows the TS-Aligner Jr. to measure angles ("Angle Attachment Gage")
requires some pretty precise machine work (+/- 0.0005" max).  You're not
going to pull it off on a drill press in the garage.  In fact, I have
trouble maintaining tolerances in a production environment and my mill
has a resolution of 0.0001".  In other words, spend $99.95 and (in
addition to nice anodized aluminum) you get functionality that A-Line-It
doesn't offer and you can't reproduce in your own shop.

Quality of Dial Indicator:  Having a $60-$100 dial indicator is nice but
quite unnecessary for woodworking.  The $20 "Made in China" indicator is
quite satisfactory.  The minor accuracy differences will never be
noticed.  Both the A-Line-It and the TS-Aligner Jr. use Chineese dial
indicators.  The indicators that I purchase for TS-Aligner Jr. meet or
exceed AGD class 2 specifications.  Since each TS-Aligner Jr. must be
aligned with the dial indicator it comes with, each and every one gets
checked for functionality and accuracy in my shop before it is shipped.

Finally, there's a question that you didn't ask that deserves mention. 
Availability.  I can't make TS-Aligners fast enough to keep up with
demand.  There's a waiting list right now that's about two months long. 
I just spent $31,000 on new equipment and tooling to expand capacity to
meet demand (which should clear out the backlog in another month).  The
A-Line-It, on the other hand, is sitting on shelves ready for immediate
delivery.  Trendlines featured it only once in their catalog, saying
that it really wasn't doing very well.  Compare that with Hartville
Tool, which has a waiting list nearly 100 people long for TS-Aligner
Jr.  I think people recognize that $139 is too much to pay for something
you can slap together in your own shop for less than $20 (ie: anodized
aluminum really isn't worth $119).

-- 
Ed Bennett
ejb@ at primenet dot.com
Home of the TS-Aligner
http://www.primenet.com/~ejb

Due to overwhelming spam email, you must
edit my "reply to" email address in order
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From ejb@, at, primenet, dot., com Wed Apr  2 12:16:09 EST 1997
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From: Ed Bennett <"ejb"@ at primenet dot. com>
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Reasonably priced dial indicators?
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David Roseman wrote:
> 
> I've wondered from time to time how a Grizzly or comparably-priced
> import dial indicator would stack up in accuracy against a Starrett,
> even if the comparison is just anecdotal.   I've been happy with the
> grizzly indicator for years, and it seems to work great.  But
> ignorance may be bliss here.  Suppose I could check it with feeler
> gauges.  This subject is no doubt visited from time to time in
> rec.crafts.metalworking, but I've not researched it. dcr

As you might suspect, I buy a lot of these inexpensive dial indicators.
On occasion I come across one that (for whatever reason) isn't accurate.
The Aligner-Jr requires accuracy to +/-0.001 over the entire 1" travel
in order to perform accurate angle measurements.  I'd say that one or
two in 100 indicators don't stack up to that standard but are only off
by a couple of thousandths.  Still pretty darn good for a sub $20
indicator.  

I have better, much better indicators that measure in the millionths of
an inch, have incredible accuracy, and very smooth mechanisms.  However,
I never use them for woodworking.  Most of the measurements you make
with a dial indicator are relative comparisons, not absolute length. 
Therefore, even if the indicator is off by a couple of thousandths over
the entire travel it's still a very useful instrument.

-- 
Ed Bennett
ejb@ at primenet dot.com
Home of the TS-Aligner
http://www.primenet.com/~ejb

Due to overwhelming spam email, you must
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