Subject: Re: Glue for Veneering?

From: [email-masked] (Robert Klein)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:52:06 GMT

Wood shed in Buffalo, NY is a good source.

Use only hot hide glue for veneering.

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On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:21:40 -0800, GeneK <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Kevin Miske wrote:
>> 
>> Well I am about to start on my first 'real' veneering project.  It is a
>> coffee table with a a double 'C' shaped base which is joined at the
>> center.  I am in the mental planning stage still but am wondering what
>> is the best glue used for veneering?  Also if anyone has any
>> recommendations as to suppliers of veneer.  I have seen the resent
>> discussion of Constantine's but are there others out there which are
>> better.
>
>The "traditional" glue would be hide glue.  I brethe a sigh of relief
>whenever I have to repair a piece that was put together with hide glue
>cause it's easy to rework.  It softens under heat. 
>
>Gene

Regards,

Robert Klein
Robert's Antiques and Restoration
Pensacola, FL  32505  USA

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 28 Mar 1997 14:34:39 GMT

>Use only hot hide glue for veneering.

Bob, can you amplify of the differences and characteristics between hot and liquid hide glue?  Seems like it would be of benefit to a bunch.  TIA.

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From: [email-masked] (Hodcarry)
Date: 29 Mar 1997 13:26:11 GMT

Depending on how large a surface, it is posible to buy different sorts of
hot melt glue in sheets.  I have been very successful for areas up to  i6
x 20 using a photo dry mounting tissue-really a hot glue.

---

From: [email-masked] (Robert Klein)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 16:59:20 GMT

Liquid hide glue has gel depressant chemicals added that slow the
jelling properties of hot hide glue .  This keeps it liquid at room
temperature.  As the water evaporates from the liquid hide and the
glue dries, the action of the gel depressant is eliminated and the
properties of the glue return (gelling and tacking).  It does not have
the same quick tacking characteristics as hot hide glue since the hot
hide glue tack and gelling is a function of cooling first and
evaporation of water second.  There are fast and slow settign liquid
hide glues available to industry but I have not tried to find them.
Seems that we get whatever Franklin wants to sell us and to be
perfectly honest I use little liquid hide glue.  With hot hide glues
(ground hide glue), we can buy different gram strengths if needed (251
gram strength is generally used for woodworking).

When using hot hide glue it is possible, and advantageous, to use a
rubbed joint.  This is a handy way to put glue blocks in place.  With
hot hide glue you just apply the glue to the block, put it where you
need it, and rub it back and forth once or twice.  As the glue cools
it sticks, no clamping.  Can't do this with liquid hide as conviently.

Another  example, if I were to veneer a night stand size top, I would
not use liquid hide glue for several reasons.  One is that I would
have to work the glue longer with the hammer (veneer hammer or wood
block for smoothing) and probably even have to clamp the veneer in
place.  I have used liquid hide glue for certain situations, one being
to reglue small areas that were originally glued with hide glue, but
in those situations I heat the liquid hide glue before application in
order for it to reactivate the old hide glue that is already there.
This works well for gluing old chairs that were originally done with
hide.  I do this if the application of warm water did not restick the
loose area.  

In using hot hide glue, say, on new work, one of the super
characteristics is that as it cools below 95 degrees it begins to grab
and stick (gel an tack) as mentioned with the rubbed glue blocks
example.  Besides, if you buy good quality hide, or animal glue it
gives your shop the aroma it should have.

Again using the example of the night stand top to be veneered;  I
spread the hot glue on the top of the stand (working in a warm room or
having a hair dryer handy helps allieviate anxiety) then place the
veneer on the top which has the glue spread.  Working from the center
out I use a block of maplewood shaped like a rocker on the bottom and
flat on top, about 3" x 5" and about 1 1/2" thick at the thickest
part, to rub the veneer flat.  As I work this I usually have to put
the hair dryer to it to keep it warm and workable.  More skillful
folks probably do not have to do this.  I have, on large tops (4' x
4') had to use an iron.  It is easy for me to use to much glue and
have a lot of excess running down the sides, but that is just my fear
of having a glue starved area.  It is very easy to clean up hide glue,
a little warm water does it and even if there is a bit left somewhere
it isn't noticable when you finish the piece.

I think that as one gets used to using hot hide glue, more and more of
the benefits come to light.  Yes, it is a bit more troublesome at the
outset, but the long term benefits and absence of botched veneering
jobs far out weighs the set up and heating time.  

I shutter to recall in earlier years using contact cement to attach
veneer, only to have a bubble appear on the surface, usually after the
finish was applied.  Can't fix that.  And hopefully I never have to
re-repair the few roll top desk curtains I used contact cement or
yellow glue to attach the canvas to the slats.  

Glued joints will fail, and when they do, I want to be able to repair
them again without having to destroy the piece.

==========================================================

Regards,

Robert Klein
Robert's Antiques and Restoration
Pensacola, FL  32505  USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
If you can't find time to do it right the first time,
how are you going to find time to do it over?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
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