Subject: Methlyene chloride

From: [email-masked] (Robert Klein)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:13:02 GMT

Methylene Chloride-- Dichloromethane

This fact sheet answers the most frequently asked health questions
about methylene chloride.  For more information, you may call
404-639-6000.  This fact sheet is one in a series of summaries about
hazardous substances and their health effects.  

This information is important because this substance may harm you.
The effects of exposure to any hazardous substance depend on the dose,
the duration, how you are exposed, personal traits and habits, and
whether other chemicals 
are present.

SUMMARY:  Exposure to methylene chloride happens mostly from breathing
air in the workplace where it is used.   In people, direct skin
contact causes intense burning and mild skin redness.  This substance
has been found in at least 746 of 1,300 National Priorities List sites
identified by the Environmental Protection Agency.

What is methylene chloride? (Pronounced meth'' i - leen klo' ride)

Methylene chloride is a colorless liquid with a mild, sweet odor.
Another name for it is dichloromethane. 
 
It does not occur naturally in the environment.  It's made from
methane gas or wood alcohol.  It's widely used as a solvent in paint
strippers, as a propellant in aerosols, and as a process solvent in
the manufacturing of drugs.  It's also used as a metal cleaning and
finishing solvent.

Most methylene chloride gets in the environment from its use in
industry and from home use of aerosols and paint removers.  Because of
concern over the health effects, its use in aerosols has declined.

Methylene chloride is approved as an extraction solvent for spices and
hops.  It used to be popular for removing caffeine from coffee, but
most coffee producers no longer use it.

What happens to methylene chloride when it enters the environment?

It evaporates very easily, so it's found mostly in air.
More than 99 percent of the methylene chloride in air comes from
industry and consumer products.  It doesn't stick to soil particles or
dissolve in water, so it moves from both soil and water to air.  Soil
and water organisms break it down to simpler compounds.  Some drinking
water has been shown to contain small amounts of methylene chloride.
Plants and aquatic organisms do not appear to store it.
 
How might I be exposed to methylene chloride?

Breathing workplace air where it is used
Breathing fumes from paint strippers that contain it (check the label)
Breathing fumes from aerosol cans that use it (check the label)
Breathing contaminated air near waste sites.

How can methylene chloride affect my health?

Methylene chloride harms the human central nervous system.
High levels in the air (nearly 1,000 times average levels) may affect
your ability to react fast, remain steady, or perform tasks that
require precise hand movements.  If you continue to breathe high
levels, you may get: dizziness,  nausea, tingling, numbness in the
fingers and toes.

In most cases, these effects will stop shortly after exposure ends.
In animals, however, very high exposures have caused unconsciousness
and death.  Exposure to lower levels of methylene chloride in air can
lead to slightly impaired hearing and vision.  Many people can smell
methylene chloride at these lower levels.  However, people differ in
their ability to smell methylene chloride, so odors may not help you
avoid an unwanted exposure.  In humans, direct skin contact with
methylene chloride causes intense burning and mild redness of the
skin.  Direct contact with the eyes can burn the cornea.  In animals
that have been exposed to vapors or directly to methylene chloride,
the cornea was damaged.  The damage healed within a few days after the
exposure ended.

How likely is methylene chloride to cause cancer?

The Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) has determined that

methylene chloride may reasonably be anticipated to be a carcinogen.
Methylene chloride has not been shown to cause cancer in humans
exposed to vapors in the workplace.  However, breathing high
concentrations of it for long periods did increase the incidence of
cancer in mice.

Is there a medical test to show whether I've been exposed to methylene
chloride?

Several tests measure exposure to methylene chloride.  These tests are
not routinely available in your doctor's office.

The most direct test measures methylene chloride in the air you
breathe out.  Your blood can also be tested to determine if methylene
chloride is present.  Since it stays in the blood a very short time,
you must have these tests soon after exposure. 
 
Doctors can also test urine for methylene chloride or for chemicals
such as formic acid that are produced as methylene chloride breaks
down in the body.
 
Has the federal government made recommendations to protect human
health?

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requires that releases of
methylene chloride of 1,000 pounds or more be reported to the federal
government.  The EPA has guidelines as to how much of this chemical
you may be exposed and for how long without harming your health.  EPA
recommends that children not drink water that contains more than 13.3
parts of methylene chloride per million parts of water (13.3 ppm) for
longer than 1 day or with more than 1.5 ppm for longer than 10  days.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) </B>has established limits on
how much methylene chloride can remain in spice, hops extract, and
decaffeinated coffee.  The Occupational Safety and Health
Administration (OSHA) proposes to reduce the current occupational
exposure limits to methylene chloride in air.  The limit would go from
500 ppm to 25 ppm for an 8-hour workday.  The National Institute for
Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) currently recommends a
permissible limit of 75 ppm of methylene chloride in the air over a
10-hour workday  in the presence of carbon monoxide concentrations
less than or equal to 9.9 ppm.  

Carcinogen:  Substance that can cause cancer.
PPM:  Parts per million.
Cornea: The clear front part of the eye.
Propellant:  The gas used in spray cans to force out the contents of
the can.

Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). 1993. 
Toxicological profile for methylene chloride.  Atlanta: U.S.
Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service.
Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). 1990. Case
studies in environmental medicine: Methylene chloride toxicity.
Atlanta: U.S. Department of 
Health and Human Services, Public Health Service.

Where can I get more information?
ATSDR can tell you where to find occupational and environmental health
clinics.  Their specialists can recognize, evaluate, and treat
illnesses resulting from exposure to hazardous substances.  You can
also contact your community or state health or environmental quality
department if you have any more questions or concerns.

For more information, contact:  Agency for Toxic Substances and
Disease Registry Division of Toxicology 1600 Clifton Road NE, Mailstop
E-29, Atlanta, GA 30333
 Phone: 404-639-6000
 
 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, 
Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
HREF="http://atsdr1.atsdr.cdc.gov:8080/toxfaq.html#ToxFACTS

Regards,

Robert Klein
Robert's Antiques and Restoration
Pensacola, FL  32505  USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you can't find time to do it right the first time,
how are you going to find time to do it over?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---

From: [email-masked] (StkyFingr)
Date: 28 Mar 1997 23:01:58 GMT

So, what was the point of this posting?

Sticky Fingers

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 19:33:54 -0500

> So, what was the point of this posting?

You did not have the courtesy to quote even a part of your question, but
I will answer anyway.

Methlyene chloride is used in the finishing industry, and that overlaps
with the woodworking industry. That makes it a worthwhile topic for
rec.woodworking.

This wonderful chemical has been talked about to some degree here
(including by yours truely even though I now see that I have mispelled
it evertime in the past, neglecting the "y").

So when Robert Klein, who has a more than worthy track record for
relevant fact-filled contributions, decides to take his valuable time to
warn us of some of the dangers of working with this great versatile
compound, then you can bet your bottom dollar (a better negotiable
instrument when based on the gold standard) that the material is worth
reading.

What's his point of posting? That should all be mindful (a word made
more prominent by becoming the topic of an "On Language" essay by
William Safire) of the dangers we may encounter when we come into
contact with methylene chloride. The least we could do is warn the mice
in the studies that they are at risk

I would say that ther is tremendous advantages to Mr. Klein's posting in
that it helps to remove "a stumbling block before the blind"; that there
is little point to you asking what his point was -- especially without
benefit of a quotation from such or even a hint in your query so that an
unassuming reader of your post might have the slightest benefit of
context; and finally that there is a little more point to my response to
your post, but much less worthwhile than the informative contribution
>from  Robert Klein dealing with methylene chloride, a popular chemical
used in removing finishes.
-- 
(To reply, change "webspam" to "webspan" in my e-mail address.)
-------
Daniel

---

From: [email-masked] (Robert Klein)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:22:56 GMT

>So, what was the point of this posting?
=======================================

Mr. Fingers,

Are you refering to the point of your posting or mine?  

If you are questioning the point/reason of my posting regarding
methlyene chloride, I suggest you read it as the answer is contained
therein.  I also intend to post regarding acetone, toulene, methanol,
and other woodworking related materials because I feel it is important
to know what we are using, some of the dangers involved, and how to
neutralize those dangers.  For example, if one had a weak heart,
working with methylene chloride could have very damaging effects as
the carbon dioxide is converted to cabon monoxide in the blood,  just
as working with it or other chemicals could have damaging effects on
an unborn child.

If you are, however, refering to the point of your own posting, I
cannot answer that.

Allow me to remind you that newsreaders, even the one provided through
AOL, has a reply function which allows quoted text to appear.  It is
considered good manners to post a portion of the text to which you are
replying.  This allows all those around the world who read your post
to understand what it is that you are responding to without having to
search.  All newsreaders and newservers vary somewhat as to retention
of messages so you can see that quoted text is necessary, helpful, and
considerate.

This newsgroup is composed of friendly, literate, helpful people who
freely give their time to help each other excell in their efforts to
work with wood, exchange information, techniques, methods, sources,
and assist in problem solving.

 Nowhere is there room or need for rudeness, abruptness, or over
inflated egos.  I have only been working with wood and finishing since
1969 with pay, and still have a lot to learn.  It is through mediums
such as this, with its concentration of knowledgable persons in the
woodworking arena that I find most rewarding and helpful to me.  

=============================================================

Regards,

Robert Klein
Robert's Antiques and Restoration
Pensacola, FL  32505  USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
If you can't find time to do it right the first time,
how are you going to find time to do it over?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (JaneAustin)
Date: 31 Mar 1997 11:48:28 GMT

To [email-masked]': The point is, your health and safety. Not taking
adequate precautions can lead to nasty consequences, sometimes not always
immediately obvious. For example, several men here worked with a certain
chemical. Years later, nearly every one of their babies had major birth
defects. The chemical has since been banned from this site.

Having once woke up in ICU from inhaling too much organic vapors (the
motors on that hood were shut down and the smell wasn't great), I can
assure you that chemical safety should be taken with extreme seriousness. 

A blade may cut off a finger or two, but a chemical can wreck havoc for
generations. Think about it.

Jane
++++++++++++++++++++++

Subject: Re: Methlyene chloride
From: [email-masked] (Robert Klein)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 08:22:56 GMT
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>

Mr. Fingers,

---

From: [email-masked] (StkyFingr)
Date: 1 Apr 1997 04:07:58 GMT

<<You did not have the courtesy to quote even a part of your question, but
I will answer anyway.>>

I don't recall asking you the question.  I am well aware of methylene
chloride, since we are the largest manufacturer of contact adhesives in
the World.  This particular solvent is used in pretty much all
non-flammable contact adhesives, both neoprene and SBR (Kraton), for the
foam fabricating business.  Not only is this solvent used in the finishing
industry, it is also used as a primary ingredient for manufactuing
polyurethane foam.

<<of the dangers we may encounter when we come into
contact with methylene chloride. The least we could do is warn the mice
in the studies that they are at risk>>

Yea, and that is about it.  The risk of this solvent as being a carcinogen
to human beings is very remote.  An independent lab, Zeneca, did a study
on this solvent and pinpointed that labe mice and rats develop cancer when
exposed to high does of methylene chloride, due to the fact that they have
a specific gene which is not found in human beings.

<< especially without benefit of a quotation from such or even a hint in
your query so that an unassuming reader of your post might have the
slightest benefit of
context;>>

I felt no need to insert a quotation.  I wanted to know why this was
posted.  I was not going to quote the whole damned article, and that was
what my question was based upon.

For your information, OSHA pased a statndard on methylene chloride on
January 10 of this year, which lowers the permissible exposure limit (PEL)
>from  500 to 25 parts per million (ppm).  This standard becomes effective
on April 10, 1997.  This standard also establishes a short-term (15 minute
exposure limit, or STEL of 125 ppm.  Due to this standard, you can pretty
much kiss methylene chloride goodbye!

Enough quotations in this for you?

Sticky Fingers - aka Tim

---

From: [email-masked] (StkyFingr)
Date: 1 Apr 1997 04:21:11 GMT

<<f you are questioning the point/reason of my posting regarding
an unborn child.>>

All solvents are dangerous.  People want to find out the effects of over
exposure and the proper safety procedures when working with these
solvents, then they should request an MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)
>from  the manuafacturer whose products contain these solvents.

In fact, D-limonene, which is a natural chemical used in manufacturing
citrus cleaners is also a dangerous chemical.  Natural is not safer
either.  Going to make a posting on this?

As far as the dangers, I am well aware of the dangers, and we supply all
of our customers with MSDS sheets, especially since it is the law.  We are
the laregest manufacturer of contact adhesives in the world, and we use
toluene (the main ingredient in dissolving neoprene in flammable
adhesives), cyclo-hexane, n-hexane, MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), acetone,
methylene chloride, 1,1,1 trichloroethane, trichloroethylene, and V,M, & P
Naptha, just to name a few.  Again, that is why there are MSDS sheets.

<<Allow me to remind you that newsreaders, even the one provided through
AOL, has a reply function which allows quoted text to appear.  It is
considered good manners to post a portion of the text to which you are
replying. >>

Really?? No kidding!  I am well aware of that also.  I wanted to know why
you posted the whole article.  Guess I should have quoted the whole thing.

<<This newsgroup is composed of friendly, literate, helpful people who
freely give their time to help each other excell in their efforts to
work with wood, exchange information, techniques, methods, sources,
and assist in problem solving.>>

I am aware of this newsgroup and the purpose of such.  I have been
answering questions on contact adhesives in this group for years.

<< Nowhere is there room or need for rudeness, abruptness, or over
inflated egos.  I have only been working with wood and finishing since
1969 with pay, and still have a lot to learn. >>

I was not rude, I asked a very specific question.  I have been working
with these solvents for 33 years and I am up to date with them.  If you
want more information on methylene chloride, let me know.  You can just
about kiss this solvent goodbye, due to the recent OSHA standard.

Sticky Fingers - aka Tim

---

From: [email-masked] (StkyFingr)
Date: 1 Apr 1997 04:27:15 GMT

<< The point is, your health and safety.>>

That's right, and all of the health and precautionary information can be
obtained from the manufacturer whose product contains these chemicals, by
requesting an MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet).  If you work in a plant
using chemicals, an MSDS on every chemical used is to be posted in an
accessible area for workers to read.  This is called the Workers Right to
Know law.

<<Think about it.>>

I don't have to think about it.  I am aware of the consequences of over
exposure to solvents.  That is why we submit and you should request MSDS
sheets on products containing solvents.  

Sticky Fingers - aka Tim

---

From: [email-masked] (StkyFingr)
Date: 1 Apr 1997 04:33:36 GMT

<<Allow me to remind you that newsreaders, even the one provided through
AOL, has a reply function which allows quoted text to appear. >>

BTW, the Reply to Group button on AOL does not allow or automically
provide quoted text to appear.  It has to be done by copying and pasting.

Sticky Fingers - aka Tim

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 00:46:20 -0500

> Enough quotations in this for you?

Hello Tim:

There are now enough quotations for me. If you recall your original
question, you can see how it is easy for a reader of this newsgroup to
interpret it as some wise-guy response (which it now appears NOT to be
the case). I would say that we got off to a bad start, especially since
I not only share your beliefs on the issue of these solvents and how the
AlGores will put us out of business.

With your three followup posted messages (with quotations), you have
contributed valuable information that I enjoyed reading, and more
important, represents another side of a coin not so often seen.

I think that had it been included in your original post, I know that I
would not contributed such a defensive reponse on behalf of Mr. Klein.
There would have been no need to. I do not think that I would have
joined the thread at all, being content to sit on the sidelines and
observe, silently and passively.

Once again, I actually benefitted from the information that you
eventually did share with the newsgroup.
-- 
(To reply, change "webspam" to "webspan" in my e-mail address.)
-------
 Daniel

    / `-' )        ,,,
   | IU U||||||||[:::]
    \_.-.(         '''

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From: [email-masked] (Robert Klein)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 17:29:37 GMT

Nice of you to share you wisdom.  

So why was it you wanted to know the purpose of the original post on
methylene chloride?

=======================================================

On 1 Apr 1997 04:21:11 GMT, [email-masked] (StkyFingr) wrote:
 
---------------snip---------------for brevity

Regards,

Robert Klein