Subject: Re: fisheyeing

From: [email-masked] (Craig1708)
Date: 27 Mar 1997 23:26:05 GMT

Fisheye is the seperation of the finish caused by silicone contamination,
the prime source is Pledge (and some others).  The finish "pools" up into
little circle that look like fisheyes. There is no way to completely get
rid of silicone as if you strip a piece that has been contaminated, the
solvent merely drives it deeper into the wood, epecially if the finish has
degraded and crazed. The silicone will go through the cracks like a
waterfall.
Adding silicone to the new finish material ( a common "cure") is like
adding gasoline to a fire. 
The problem is that you usually will not know if the surface is
contaminated until you attempt to put the new finish on.
There are ways to mask it, but it depends on what your finish material is
and your technique.

If you need more, write back.

**************************************************************************
Craig Deller
The Deller Conservation Group Ltd
Geneva, Illinois
USA
[email-masked]                "Conservators make it last longer"
http://home.aol.com/DELLERCON
***************************************************************************

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From: [email-masked] (Robert Klein)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:29:41 GMT

Laura,

Fisheyeing occurs when a finish is applied on contaminated wood.  Wood
that is contaminated with grease, oil, silicones, and such are, in
effect, "wetter" than the coating you wish to apply.  The results are
that the coating will not flow out properly.  It tends to run from the
contaminated area, 'slips off', if you prefer.

Generally, with minor contamination, you will have craters, or
'fisheyes', on the surface after you coat.  In  worst cases, say you
have a piece of furniture sitting ready to recoat, here comes someone
in the shop who just ate fried chicken and leans their hands on the
top of the furniture, naturally you didn't notice so when you spray
the finish on after they leave you have the perfect hand print.

The major cause of silicone contamination is spray polishes.  Many
polishes nad waxes  have silicone added to give that "freshly polished
look" to your furnishings.  It gets into the wood through the finish
and while stripping.  There are ways to lessen the effects of this
problem from thorough rinsing while stripping to additives in the
coatings.  Most additives are actually silicone which you add to the
coatings prior to spraying, there is one that I know of from 3M that
is not a silicone and works very well.  Once you put the silicone
additive in the coating you must continue to do so with all the
coatings, the gun must be washed well before its next use if you do
not want to contaminate a 'clean' piece.  Also, over spray in the shop
>from  the additive can contaminate the other objects, that is why I
prefer using the 3M product Flourad, but it is super expensive.

Hope this helps.

================================================================================================
On Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:23:54 -0500, Nola Beckum <[email-masked]>
wrote:

>Hello ... I just read the message regarding "fisheyeing".  I'm still a bit of
>a novice at much of this ... would you mind explaining and educating me about
>fisheyeing?
>
>Thank you
>
>Laura

Regards,

Robert Klein
Robert's Antiques and Restoration
Pensacola, FL  32505  USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you can't find time to do it right the first time,
how are you going to find time to do it over?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From: Jerry Morrison <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:04:13 -0800

Laura,
Fisheye occurs when applying finish materials over a surface that has
been contaminated with oil or silicone compounds. The substance creates
a surface tension around the area it occupies, not allowing the finish
material to share that space. What you end up with is a crater that
either goes partially or all the way to your substrate. It is a
persistent nasty little spot that once it shows up is near impossible to
get rid of.
  Fortunately there have been products developed which when mixed with
the finish material will break the surface tension and allow it to flow
into those areas. You can find these products at most good paint stores.
  One way to minimize the problem around a shop is to not use or at
least use very carefully any materials containing silicone. Most
commercial furniture polishes contain silicone. I have refinished
cabinets and furniture for people who believe that all wood should be
treated with that crap whether it has a finish or not and had a
miserable time with fisheye. I have done work for others and never had
even one spot show up.
  Another good source of contamination around the home is the use of
Armor All on automobiles then bringing contaminated rags or hands into a
work area or home then allowing these to be used for wiping tools or
furniture.
  When in doubt, the additive is very inexpensive compared to the time
it takes to correct the problem in the midst of a finishing project. A
good source of information about this and other finish related matters
visit the web site at 
http://www.mcn.org/MenComNet/Business/Retail/Lib/StarTechSchedules.html
they also sell the additive.

Hope this helps,
Jerry Morrison