Subject: Re: A question of netiquette in rec.WW

From: Jeff Gorman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 10:03:57 +0000

Joe Watkins wrote:

~  I am just curious... when I submit a request for info etc. Do you
~  expect or require or appreciate a reply to your offered advice/help?
~  
~  I have asked a few newbie questions and I have gotten some good info
~  in return.  I am not sure wether or not to reply with thanks or send
~  an email to the person or persons that have generously offered their
~  two cents.  How do you all feel?

I feel that the people who say "Thanks in anticipation" or suchlike,
take too much for granted, are unlikely to be bothered to acknowledge,
and probably fail to appreciate the effort that can be put into a
reply.

Even more reprehensible, in my view, are the people who ask for reply
by email since they do not usually read the newsgroup.

Jeff
-- 
Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:18:23 GMT

>by email since they do not usually read the newsgroup.
Well, it seems that we have a varied opinion on my question, but most
feel some sort of recognition is a good thing.  My resolution to all
that submitted is that if I am simply going to send a thanks, I will
do it by email.  If I have more to offer or say, I will do it via this
NG. BTW I always send a reply to an email as I feel that the person
that sends it is being a little more personal and I appreciate their
efforts as well as the ones that reply in the NG.  I do feel that
their comments would be good for the NG as well as to me directly and
would encourage them to reply through the NG as well.  I don't want to
forward their comments without approval as I consider that in poor
taste.  I will sometimes take enough liberty to share their thoughts
anonymously though.... I heard from someone who....etc.

** JOE **

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From: John L Ferrell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 14:54:46 -0800

> by email since they do not usually read the newsgroup.

I sometimes e-mail my response to assure that the original poster gets
another shot at getting the info. I went for quite a while before I
discovered Deja-News, it sure was embarassing to find out I was missing
so many posts. There is enough delivery trouble to justify the extra
bandwidth. 

Just my two cents worth, no flame intended,

John Ferrell in Julian NC

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From: [email-masked] (Tim Hoyman)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:18:39 -0600

In article <[email-masked]>, Jeff Gorman 
> by email since they do not usually read the newsgroup.

I agree with Jeff on this one, if the person just wants the replies
emailed because they do not want (lazy?) to come back to rec.ww and check
for replies.  If it is info that is really not for a large chunk of the
group, as in,how do you tighten the collet on a PC 609?  Then, the replies
really should be emailed.  This is something that applies to newcomers and
vets - we should save as much bandwidth as possible.

My personal peeve is when people throw up a question and ask others to
take time to give them advice and they do not even have the simple
consideration to put their real name or even initials at the bottom of the
post.

Tim

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From: Bill Ferris <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:26:37 -0500

> by email since they do not usually read the newsgroup.

I agree!! If all the replies were e-mailed, how am I gonna learn
anything!!

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:07:58 -0600

I recently posted a message and requested E-mail only responses because
every time I return to rec.WW, my post always disappears within a day or
sometimes even hours. I know I must be doing something wrong, but I
don't request this beacuse I'm lazy, just inexperienced with the
functions of the newsgroup.

Sorry,

Jameel
-- 
mailto:[email-masked]
http://www.skep.com/mt-sinai/

St. John the Baptist Orthodox Church
Mt. Sinai Orthodox Church Products

Tel (800) 867-3036
Fax (319) 363-4252

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From: Ted Scott <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 01:26:15 -0500

> emailed because they do not want (lazy?) to come back to rec.ww and check

Well, Jeff and Tim, in my situation my NNTP server expires R.WW twice
daily and I 
often miss a large number of replies.  Even so I still don't
specifically  
request a personal followup, but they are always appreciated.

Rather than a thank you, it used to be accepted practice 'round heeya
that one would summarize responses and condense the info into the
essence 
of the consensus (or lack thereof) and possibly asking a followup or
just
to make absitively posilutly sure the horse was indeed deceased (and
ready 
for resurrection in 4 to 6 months ;-)

-Ted 

Just feeling my age and missing the old days which were more harsh in 
some ways but kinder and gentler in other ways.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:40:40 -0500

> functions of the newsgroup.

When I reply to a post I always post it in the newsgroup, as well as
attempt to send it to the person I am responding to, unless the e-mail
address is bogus. It is a simple courtesy that is no skin off my nose. I
expect the same. What if  your or my news server is down for a couple of
days? People have such thin skin.

I think that it's worth repeating that it is helpful to those of us who
like to peruse this newsgroup to quote at least some relevant portion
(if not the entire post) of the post you are responding to for the
purpose of context. That is a simple courtesy to those who have not had
a chance to read the original. Once again, context helps.
-- 
Daniel

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From: StanR <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 02:23:42 -0800

> consideration to put their real name or even initials at the bottom of the

There may be good reason for this. Many ISP's only get some of the
articles in a newsgroup, and others only keep them for a few days,
rather than a week or two. I don't exactly know why, but I have two
ISP's, one for my email and ATT (the one I use except for email). The
first never has as many articles in newsgroups as ATT and coesn't keep
them but a few days. So it's quite possible for someone to miss a post
to their question even if they do dilligence.

Stan

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From: "Roots" <[email-masked]>
Date: 12 Feb 1997 16:37:51 GMT

> > functions of the newsgroup.

If you see it posted, then it is not anything you are doing.  Posts usually
disappear for two reasons.

1)  Your internet provider is deleting them.   This depends on either
traffic in the newsgroup or a provider that deletes quickly to save space. 
 Call them and ask.

2)  The message is there, but you are not seeing it because your program
has marked it as read.

---

From: Paul Worth <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:01:02 -0500

> I agree!! If all the replies were e-mailed, how am I gonna learn

I'd like to add my $0.02 if I might.  There used to be an unwritten
policy here that off-topic posts were required to have an "ob.ww"
addendum.  "ob.ww" stands for "obligatory woodworking" and means
that you MUST put something related to woodworking in your message.
That way, people who read the list for its woodworking content can
get something from every message.  I'll try to return to that policy.
Anybody else with me?

--Paul Worth--
[email-masked]

ob.ww:  I'm using Formby's "Tung Oil Finish" on a cherry night
stand I just finished.  It's very thin and easy to apply, yet
builds up to a nice sheen remarkably fast.  It's also nice to
use something that recommends the palm of your hand as an applicator.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:27:35 UNDEFINED

In article <[email-masked]> Paul Worth <[email-masked]> writes:
>From: Paul Worth <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: A question of netiquette in rec.WW
>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:01:02 -0500

>> > and probably fail to appreciate the effort that can be put into a

I think they're just trying to be polite.

>> > by email since they do not usually read the newsgroup.

Yes, definitely.  It defeats the purpose, as well.

>get something from every message.  I'll try to return to that policy.

This is an interesting idea, whether it was yours or not.  But, I doubt it'll 
work - too many new people all the time - the same type who want us to email 
their responses to them.

>use something that recommends the palm of your hand as an applicator.

Thanks for the tip, Paul!  I have a bottle of that stuff sitting on the shelf 
that I bought real cheap.  Haven't used it yet, but I'll have to try it.  I'm 
wondering how water resistant the results will be.

Rich

---

From: Termite <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:37:59 -0500

Paul Worth wrote:
snip
> use something that recommends the palm of your hand as an applicator.
ob.ww
Paul - cool. I know what you mean about palm finishing. I've been using
Watco for the past 17 years and there's nothing like the finishing stage
of the project. I've spent many hours rubbing a finish into the project.
If you want a deep finish using this product (and/or Tung Oil) you'll
have to apply several coats to get it to build up in the pores of the
wood. The closer to the surface you build the finish the more it'll
shine. I always apply, at a MINIMUM, 2 coats of finish with the 2nd coat
applied using 600grit wet/dry paper. I always apply 2 coats of Watco
satin wax - always applied with 600 grit and as much hand rubbing as I
can get in before the wax begins to dry. I buff it out with a buffing
wheel - getting this wax to shine is VERY HARD to do by hand (my
shoulder won't take it).
For Christmas my wife got me (upon request) a can of BRI wax. I haven't
tired it yet but looking forward to it. It is a combination of Carnarba
(sic) and bees wax. The Carnarba wax is VERY hard and therefore will
provide a very nice shine.

---

From: Termite <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:10:00 -0500

[email-masked] wrote:
snip
>  I'm
Rich,
Both the Tung Oil (which is really a varnish) as well as Danish Oil
finishes all have some resistance to water. Alcolhol (sic) is another
story. In any case with any of these hand applied oil finishes you need
to apply a wax coat to in order to provide better protection.
 
Heres the biggest down side, and it might never effect one of your
projects. Oh by the way, I don't believe there's a nicer finish anywhere
than the soft finish. High Gloss is OK if that's what you want, a finish
that is ON TOP of the wood and not in it. It has it's place, it depends
on what type of environment the project is going to be placed in.

Any way - the down side. I made a table for our eat-in portion of the
kitchen. It's bar height (40") 6' long and 42" wide. I started out with
1 1/2" stock and ended up with 1 3/8" on the final product. It's made
>from  Walnut and is ABSOLUTLY BEAUTIFUL ! Seats 6 bar stools with
upholsted barrel backs with wood arms and feet to match.
I don't know how many coats of oil I have on it (many - not less than 5
and not more than 9) and about 4 coats of wax. 
Now - when something HOT is placed on the table it has an effect on the
finish. Fortunatly since I've been using this type of finish for years I
knew this would happen. The finish takes on a LIGHT HUE where the hot
item was place. If someone makes toast and puts it on a paper plate and
places it on the table you will be able to see the outline of the bread
!! WOW you might say, me too. This effect is really only in the WAX coat
and I believe that if you used a HARDER wax that you might not see this.
But then again - if you're into a HARD finsh use a brush or spray on. 
SO - after a while (maybe once a year or two, or when the mood strikes
me and I can't stand it any longer). I simply REAPPLY the Watco wax.
Problem solved - all marks and traces are gone.
One of the REALLY nice things about the Danish oils is that a NEW
APPLICATION will break down old layers of wax. You can use the netural
oil and therefore not contine to darken the wood. Except we all know
that anything that touches wood (especailly dark woods) tends to make
them darker already. 
Enjoy you rub finish ! It's the only way to go in my book.

---

From: Termite <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:14:32 -0500

This is a strange thread for the conversation that we got goining about
OIL finishes - no?

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From: [email-masked] (Bennett Leeds)
Date: 14 Feb 1997 21:12:59 GMT

[email-masked] writes
> In article <[email-masked]> Paul Worth  
<[email-masked]> writes:
> Thanks for the tip, Paul!  I have a bottle of that stuff sitting on the 
> shelf that I bought real cheap.  Haven't used it yet, but I'll have to try 
> it.  I'm wondering how water resistant the results will be.

Just like any other oil/varnish mix. In a Rodale ad for some Shop Tip book,
Flexner is quoted as saying that you can duplicate Formby's and other wiping 
varnishes simply by thinning a varnish - nothing about adding oil mentioned.

That means it's like any other varnish, except that since you're wiping 
it on (and off) you're putting on thinner coats so the coating isn't as
thick and therefore not as durable.

- Bennett Leeds
[email-masked]

Opinions are mine alone.

---

From: Termite <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:47:45 -0500

Sorry Bennett - that's why you put on 'multiple' coats, to build up the
finish so that 1) it's durable 2) comes closer to the surface for shine.
Bennett Leeds wrote:
 
snip 
> That means it's like any other varnish, except that since you're > wiping it on (and off) you're putting on thinner coats so the coating > isn't as thick and therefore not as durable.

---

From: "David Yoho" <[email-masked]>
Date: 15 Feb 1997 01:37:21 GMT

While I must admit I like using Danish oil finishes on certain projects, I
have to wonder why anyone uses the Watco finishing wax instead of regular
paste wax. I was never able to get much of a shine with it. I have found
plain old Johnson's paste wax or Bri Wax works much better and can be
removed easily if needed. I was also under the impression that you couldn't
build layers of wax since the addition of a new coat just dissolved the
previous coat and left a thin layer after buffing.

I also don't believe that table was a good candidate for an oil finish. It
looks great on walnut but offers little to no protection on a surface like
this table. The point I'm trying to make is, I think there's a time to
finish with oil and a time to use another type of finish that would offer
more protection and make more sense. Please don't take offense to this, it
just an observation worth about $.02.

David

Termite <[email-masked]> wrote in article
<[email-masked]>...