Subject: Re: Beisemeyer vs Unifence

From: [email-masked] (Threewhlrd)
Date: 10 Feb 1997 22:47:20 GMT

It took Beisemeyer to get Delta to create a decent fence. Without the
Beisemeyer design we'd all be using a piece of crap fence.  I love my
Beisemeyer and would never replace it with anything!

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From: "Jack A. Zucker" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:36:29 -0500

> Beisemeyer and would never replace it with anything!

That's not the point. I personally don't give a hoot about the history
of the fence, I just want one with the features that appeal to me. That
being said, the Delta comes out the clear winner. It's flatter, deflects
less, can be used as a cut-off fence (with no cursor adjustment), comes
off easier, can be replaced easier, etc.

NO CONTEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

-Jaz

-- 
> 
> Jack A. Zucker                          | ESP Music
> [email-masked] (or)                       | Voice: 216 349 5881 (home)
> [email-masked]       | Voice: 216 646 7796 (work)
>                                         |   Fax: 216 646 7766 (work)

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From: [email-masked] (Alan)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 04:36:10 GMT

Actualy I prefer the Beisemeyer  I don't know which fence you have
Jack.  I use both we have the Delta at work and I have the Beis in my
shop.  
The Beis is ALOT faster to remove especialy if you want to use your
fence on the left hand side of the blade....

The Delta takes 5 min to switch the fence to the left. (Okay maybe
that's an exageration it just seems like it.  And when something is a
pain to change (especially for just one cut) some times we don't do
iteven when it is the Safe thing...) while the Beis you just lower the
blade and slide it over.

I don't know If Wood actualy purchases the fences and then test them
or ask Manufatures for the gear to test..Which would be pretty
unreliable.but the Delta at work has a .005 bow that is sometimes a
real  pain in the butt....(yes we called them, yes they sent a
replacement and yes it too was bowed.  My Beise on the other hand is
straight as a razor.  

So I don't know if ANYTHING is Definative but I WOULD say you wouldn't
be wasting your money by purchasing either one.

Like Jack said buy the one with the features that appeal to you.

Alan

BTW Jack... I''m not picking on you.... :-)

>NO CONTEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

********************************************
Jesus is My Favorite Carpenter, 
  and he doesn't use a blade
         guard either.

Alan Murphy
Las Vegas, NV

********************************************

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From: [email-masked] (Bennett Leeds)
Date: 13 Feb 1997 18:42:56 GMT

"Jack A. Zucker" <[email-masked]> writes
>... I personally don't give a hoot about the history

Enough's enough.

Almost all the aftermarket fences are very good - the differences between
them are mostly a matter of personal preference rather than absolute this
is better than that.

For instance, as Jack often points out, the Unifence's extrusion can be 
pulled back for use as a cut-off fence. This is kind of nice, except now
you've got over a foot of fence sticking out the front of your saw - in a 
cramped shop this could be more of a pain than attaching a 1" stop block
to your fence and "burning an inch" on the ruler. 

Then again, I take issue with this whole concept - my Inca fence does the 
exact same thing as the Unifence does and I NEVER use it. Think about it.
For cross-cutting one is using some jig in the miter slots - probably a miter
gauge or a cross-cut box. The reason you pull the fence forward or attach
a stop block is so that the off-cut isn't trapped between the blade and
the fence. Well, this "off-cut" has to be the piece you're cutting! That's
not ideal in my book - it means you need a really long original piece so
you can have enough on the miter guage or cross-cut box, which is on the
OTHER side of the blade. And, how do you cut your last piece? 

If your pieces are long enough, you simply place the miter gauge between
the rip fence and blade and cut. No need for fence pulling or stop blocks.
You're holding the stock to the miter gauge, and as long as your rip
fence is in proper alignment and your miter gauge doesn't have play, 
there will not be a problem. It's only when the pieces are too short that
you need to do this offcut thing - and for that you're better off with
a stop block on your miter gauge back fence or cross-cut box. Heck, you're
better off using a cross-cut box with a long back fence and stop block for
all the cross-cuts, which is what I do.

Yes, there are other comparisons to be made as well. The Unifence is 
repositionable into two positions, but the curved back makes it harder to 
attach secondary fences. Better yet is something like the Excalibur fence, 
which has T slots on the top. My Inca fence has T slots on top AND on the 
face, which makes doing this very straightforward.

Jack now claims that the Unifence comes off easier, which goes contrary 
to his previous quoting of the Wood mag article where they said the 
Biesemeyer comes off easier.

As for rigidity, let's get it straight. The Unifence does not deflect
less than the Biesemeyer, as Jack even admitted in a previous post. American 
Woodworker did a similar test a few years ago, and reported actual numbers 
(not just good/bad groupings), and the Unifence deflected more than the 
Biesemeyer. Sure, it depends on how much pressure and where along the fence 
the pressure is applied. If you want to argue that in actual use deflection 
doesn't matter, fine, but argue that, not that the Unifence is actually more 
rigid.

Of course, if rigidity is important to you, than something like the
Paraloc or Excalibur fences, which clamp both front AND rear, is what
you want. If parallelism and cursor accuracy is important, then the
Paraloc's cable-guided alignment is unsurpassed. If a smooth sliding
action is desired, the Excalibur can't be beat. If a simple fence with
a provision for holding down the rear (so you can use hold-downs) is
what you're looking for, the Vega is worth looking at. The Vega also
has a neat micro-adjuster.

There are many choices out there. Almost all will give you reasonably
accurate, parallel fence faces, which is the basic requirement. From
there it's a matter of personal preference and there is no clear 
winner for all.

- Bennett Leeds
[email-masked]

Opinions are mine alone.

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From: "Jack A. Zucker" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:18:17 -0500

Bennett Leeds wrote:
[misc ranting and raving omitted]

It was a joke son... Perhaps you should take a break from all that
Postscript programming...

-Jaz

--

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From: [email-masked] (Bennett Leeds)
Date: 14 Feb 1997 01:13:24 GMT

> It was a joke son... 

Oh, so yet another graduate from the Olguin school of "I wasn't wrong, I 
was only joking" posting defense.

> Perhaps you should take a break from all that Postscript programming...

Perhaps you should use a smiley now and then.

- Bennett Leeds
[email-masked]

Just say Maybe he's now joking about his prior post being joking.

Opinions are mine alone.

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From: Patrick Olguin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:23:17 -0500

> was only joking" posting defense.

Hi Bennett!
My widdle feet are getting tired, what with me running around your mind
all day ;^).

ob.ww:
I've never heard of anyone being disappointed with either fence, though
admittedly I don't follow these TS fence threads too closely.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:00:19 UNDEFINED

In article <[email-masked]> Patrick Olguin <[email-masked]> writes:
>From: Patrick Olguin <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: Beisemeyer vs Unifence
>Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:23:17 -0500

>My widdle feet are getting tired, what with me running around your mind

Yeah, Bennett, you sure seem preoccupied with Patrick lately.  I mean, come 
on, he's even been AGREEING with you.  Too bad GPH isn't around anymore, eh?

>admittedly I don't follow these TS fence threads too closely.

Well, maybe you should follow more closely!  I happen to HATE my unifence.  It 
sucks, it's wimpy, it sucks, it's not flat, it sucks, it's a pain to jig, it 
sucks - biesemeyers are WAY better - no contest!

Richy