Subject: Toxic Pressure treated wood.

From: "Database Coder" <[email-masked]>
Date: 31 Mar 1997 16:09:45 GMT

I have used the green pressure treated wood around my garden quite a bit. I
recently purchased two 16 foot 4x6's that were pressure treated, but these
were BLACK not green. I was told later that they contain Arsenic! Yow
shouldn't I have told this at the time of purchase? The green pressure
treated has some form of copper in it doesn't it? Should I get the green
stuff away from my vegetable plants?  I read in the gardening news group
that pressure treated can be used for raised planter boxes because the
copper doesn't leach out. The Black would has a bluish green crystal type
material oozing from it here and there.
-- 
[email-masked]
www2.inow.com/~somebody

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From: David Clarke <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:13:06 -0800

Database Coder wrote:
> 
> I have used the green pressure treated wood around my garden quite
> a bit. I recently purchased two 16 foot 4x6's that were pressure
> treated, but these were BLACK not green. I was told later that they
> contain Arsenic! Yow shouldn't I have told this at the time of
> purchase? The green pressure treated has some form of copper in it
> doesn't it? Should I get the green stuff away from my vegetable 
> plants?  I read in the gardening news group that pressure treated
> can be used for raised planter boxes because the copper doesn't
> leach out. The Black would has a bluish green crystal type material
> oozing from it here and there.
> --
> [email-masked]
> www2.inow.com/~somebody

This is a religious subject for many people.  My religion is that I
don't use the stuff.  Organic Gardening regularly runs articles on 
"misinformation" from the treated wood industry about how safe the 
product is and supposedly bogus research that's been done to support 
that conclusion.  Besides, for me, out in CA there's no real reason to
use it as far as I can tell.  I've never had a problem with untreated 
wood in my landscaping. Untreated redwood will last for years if it's 
properly  installed.  My planter beds are ~5 years old and look fine.
I may have to replace the 4x4s that the sides bolt into in another year 
or  two, but that's a pretty simple and cheap job, and the sides show no 
damage at all.

OG is currently offering a pamphlet with their latest research,
which purports to show incredible amounts of leachage from treated
wood, including soil beneath decks and from play structures built
with treated wood.  I wasn't aware of a difference between the
green and the black stuff.  The pamphlet may talk about this.
I was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that retailers are
required by law to make available some sort of toxicity report on
the product since it is essentially a hazardous material.  And any 
directions I've ever seen on using the product recommends using at
least a mask to avoid breathing the dust (though you'd do the same
even if it wasn't impregnated with chemicals).

------------
David Clarke

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From: George Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:02:55 -0500

> material oozing from it here and there.
Standard "treated" lumber, the green stuff, is referred to as CCA by the
wood treating industry. CCA are the initials for: Copper,Chrome
(chromium or chromate I'm not sure which) and Arsenic.

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From: [email-masked] (Luigi Zanasi)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 22:24:20 GMT

"Database Coder" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>treated has some form of copper in it doesn't it? 

All the pressure treated stuff contains arsenic. The green stuff uses
CCA (Copper Chromium Arsenate) as the preservative.

>Should I get the green stuff away from my vegetable plants?  
YES
>I read in the gardening news group
I don't use ANY kind of treated lumber anywhere near my vegetables. I
don't care if they say it doesn't leach. It can still chip off and
will eventually decompose (only slower than regular wood). 20 years
rather than 10.

Luigi

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From: Jay Sultan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 23:56:28 -0500

Database Coder wrote:
> stuff away from my vegetable plants?  (snip)

Well, I have something to say, but you ripped my post on HD pretty good,
well...

(btw ... I do live in a rural area, the HD here is pretty good, and I
would gladly drive 2 hours to buy specialty tools of that if the price
of living away from the city)

For many years, arsenic treating is the prefered method of making water
resistant wood.  The color will vary depending upon how long ago the
wood was treated and the color of the wood before treatment.  Most of it
is green, but it can look black as well.

All those wood decks, etc, you see are made of arsenic treated wood
-unless they could afford redwood or cedar; around here almost all decks
are made of aresnic treated wood, bought at HD  ;)    

WRT a garden, I agree with the other post that said this was about a
religous issue.  After some debate, I decided to stay away from arsenic
wood and went with well used railroad cross ties, which were treated
with something far worse.  Why?  I figured that 80 years of weather and
heavy trains bouncing on them leeched out all the chemical that was
going to leave.  Besides, I believe in recycling....

Signed, 

Jay Sultan
Database coder since 1978