Subject: Re: blade guards

From: [email-masked] (Verne H. Bohlender)
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:33:12 GMT

I just lately removed mine as I was having so much difficulty with
cutting the boxes I was working on.  Now I have a Delta and the guard
was working well but for the above reason I removed same.  Why don't
they make these guards so you can just temporarily disable them and
then bring them back into position to be used again.  

For my own protection and being scared stiff of them I stand to the
left of the cut so I'm well clear of any pieces that might kick back.
Any ideas on this subject would be appreciated as safty first is the
thing!
Verne
On 5 Feb 1997 10:56:15 GMT, "Donald H. Littrell" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

>Is that because flying chips have removed your eyesight?  To operate a
>power tool without using available protection is fool-hardy.
>
>Duane Bartlett <[email-masked]> wrote in article
><01bc1308$47a6a160$88fee5ce@sailorb>...
>> The last time I saw my blade guard was when I saw the
>> saw in the place where I bought it.
>> D Bartlett
>>

---

From: Bill McCurdy <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:17:50 -0500

> > saw in the place where I bought it.

To advocate the use of power tools without guards is
irresponsible.
-- 
Bill McCurdy
Nashua, NH

---

From: [email-masked] (Michael Rainville)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:19:07 GMT

[email-masked] (Verne H. Bohlender) wrote:

>... Why don't
>then bring them back into position to be used again....

Exactly! The standard PM66 guard is a great piece of engineering, too
bad they didn't put the effort into something that is useable.

Mike Rainville

---

From: [email-masked] (Bennett Leeds)
Date: 13 Feb 1997 00:19:31 GMT

Verne H. Bohlender writes
> cutting the boxes I was working on. ...

Donald H. Littrell writes 
> power tool without using available protection is fool-hardy.

Duane Bartlett writes
> saw in the place where I bought it.

Bill McCurdy writes
> To advocate the use of power tools without guards is irresponsible.

In a perfect world, Don and Bill would be right. But, this ain't no
perfect world, and no guard is perfect. Going without guards like Duane
and Verne are doing isn't so smart, IMHO, either.

The truth is that in our real world there is danger in everything. The
goal as I see it is to manage the risk knowledgably. How important are your 
fingers? If it's absolutely essential that you never cut them, then you 
should not engage in woodworking. If you don't mind losing a few, then run 
power tools without guards or push sticks since you'll work faster and 
easier (until your accident, at any rate).

Most of us are in the middle. We want to take precautions that are affordable
AND don't make woodworking much more difficult. Stock guards as they
come often do make woodworking more difficult. 

But, where price is important, tuning the guards and/or augmenting them 
with shopbuilt guards is worth it as much as tuning your miter gauge bar, 
aligning your rip fence, etc. If you don't think it's possible, check out
an old video tape "Small Shop Tips with Jim Cummins," where he uses the 
stock guard for many tablesaw cuts.

Others with more resources might want to look into the aftermarket guards. 
I've got an overarm guard on my saw that, combined with a rising splitter, 
makes most operations (including narrow angled rips, dadoes, etc.) safe 
enough for me. Many others feel this way, too.

The important thing is to decide where on the continuum from no guards
to no woodworking you lie, basing your decision on knowledge, not blind
"guards suck" or "you're stupid if you don't use guards" sayings.

- Bennett Leeds
[email-masked]

Opinions are mine alone.

---

From: Bruce Johnson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 02:36:43 -0800

Very well written, Bennett!

I used my Grizzly 1023 for several years without a guard, because the
factory unit was just awful to work with. I was very, very careful but I
knew that there was a good chance that some day, something could go just
a little bit wrong, and I could lose a couple of fingers. I realized
that the worry was interfering with my enjoyment of woodworking.

Two years ago, I finally spent the money and bought an HTC overarm guard
system, and I've been very happy with it. It's not inconvenient at all.
I chose the HTC over the Beismeyer and Delta versions because the HTC
has much better visibility of the blade. If you're not familiar with it,
the HTC has a large flat acrylic block that is suspended "rigidly" above
the blade. A hand crank on top adjusts the height of the guard for the
thickness of the wood, and a release knob swings the whole thing out of
the way to change blades or use a sliding fixture. It's well designed
and sturdy.

Now I know that if an earthquake starts in the middle of a cut (that's
no joke here in Burbank, CA!), or if my dog suddenly barks right behind
me, or whatever else, I'm protected. It would be very hard to get your
hand into the blade with a good overarm guard in place.

The peace of mind was worth the $350 cost.

Bruce Johnson
Johnson's Extremely Strange Musical Instrument Co.
Burbank, CA

---

From: [email-masked] (David Roseman)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:25:20 GMT

>the way to change blades or use a sliding fixture. It's well designed

Does anyone know if the HTC overhead TS guard is OSHA-approved?
Somewhere (perhaps this ng?) I heard that OSHA requires a guard to
float on the workpiece, but haven't gotten around to researching it
myself. dcr

---

From: thomas cirillo <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:12:52 -0500

> > "guards suck" or "you're stupid if you don't use guards" sayings.
where can I learn more about this HTC system; I don't see it in the
catalogues I've got. Is it sold direct? thanks, tom.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:02:49 UNDEFINED

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Bennett Leeds) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Bennett Leeds)
>Subject: Re: blade guards
>Date: 13 Feb 1997 00:19:31 GMT

>"guards suck" or "you're stupid if you don't use guards" sayings.

Bennett, excellent article.  Probably the best-written piece on this subject 
I've read.

Nice job!  I really get tired of the 'you're stupid' posts, as well.

Rich

---

From: Bruce Johnson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:33:11 -0800

> float on the workpiece, but haven't gotten around to researching it

Yes, the HTC guard is OSHA approved. It comes with a manual suitable for
teaching schoolchildren (literally, as in high school shops!). 

The HTC guard has anti-kickback pawls that attach to the acrylic block
at the back end. The guard is supposed to be adjusted to just barely
touch the wood; that's why it has the nice crank mechanism to easily
adjust the height. 

I didn't install the pawls because I have a pair of the Leichtung
anti-kickback wheel arms mounted to my fence. They work better than
anything else I've tried.

Several of you have asked where to get the HTC guard. I got mine at Pro
Tool Supply, which is a major tool dealer here in the San Fernando
Valley, but I'm sure it must be available through the major mail order
places like Tool Crib, Woodworker's supply, etc. HTC is the same (US)
company that makes all those cool rolling bases for woodworking machines
that are available everywhere. If they don't list the guard, call 'em
and ask about it. Everything I've bought from HTC has been strong and
well made (and heavy!).

I personally tried both the Beisemeyer and Delta overarm guards on
friend's saws, and they both work very well. I just found the visibility
to be much better on the HTC design, and I like the solid mounting
better than the floating-hood-on-a-linkage design of the others. 

Bruce Johnson

---

From: "David Harris" <[email-masked]>
Date: 14 Feb 1997 13:11:25 GMT

Bruce Johnson <[email-masked]> wrote in article
<[email-masked]>...
> > >has much better visibility of the blade. 
snip
> > Does anyone know if the HTC overhead TS guard is OSHA-approved?
snip
> 
> Yes, the HTC guard is OSHA approved
snip
> The HTC guard has anti-kickback pawls that attach to the acrylic block
snip
> 
> Several of you have asked where to get the HTC guard. 
snip
> better than the floating-hood-on-a-linkage design of the others.
snip
You can buy this directly from HTC.
Customer service number is 1 - 800 - 624 - 2027
They have their own catalog full of all kinds of mobile bases and
accessories.
Cheers,
          Dave Harris
p.s. I have no connection with HTC - just a satisfied customer !

---

From: Termite <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:22:13 -0500

Bruce Johnson wrote:
snip
> anything else I've tried.
snip
Is/Are these Leichtung whell arms you reference the item that I know as
'Yellow buddies"?

---

From: [email-masked] (Threewhlrd)
Date: 14 Feb 1997 22:18:15 GMT

You can learn more about the HTC guard by calling HTC direct.  They are
out of Michigan.  My local machinery dealer gave me the number from a
mobil base sales brochure.  I too like my HTC Brett Guard because it's
very easy to use and doesn't require that bump to raise it,  Plus it
actually holds the wood down.  The splitter included with the guard is
great too. I actually like this splitter since it helps hold my work
against the fence.  I bought mine from Tar Heel Distributing in NC?  I
paid $417 delivered.

---

From: [email-masked] (Jeff Gorman)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:33:31 GMT

David Roseman wrote:
  
~  ...................... I heard that OSHA requires a guard to
~  float on the workpiece, but haven't gotten around to researching it
~  myself.

Try:
  
OCIS Gopher Menu Part O  

gopher://gabby.osha-slc.gov:70/11/.osha_std/.cfr_1910/.subpart_O

This was the address when I last looked some time ago. 

Standard Number 1910.213 (b) (5)

(c) Hand-fed ripsaws   .............................. The hood and
mounting shall be arranged so that the hood will automatically adjust
itself to the thickness of and remain in contact with the material
being cut, but it shall not offer any considerable resistance to
insertion of material to saw or to passage of the material being sawed.
The hood shall be made of adequate strength to resist blows and
strains incidental to reasonable operation, adjusting, and handling,
and shall be so designed as to protect the operator from flying
splinters and broken saw teeth. It shall be made of material that is
soft enough so that it will be unlikely to cause tooth breakage.
................ etc.

1010.213 (c) (2)

(2) Each hand-fed circular ripsaw shall be furnished with a spereader
to prevent material from squeezing the saw or being thrown back on the
operator. The spreader shall be made of hard tempered steel, or its
equivalent, and shall be thinner than the saw kerf. ........... The
spreader shall be attached so that it will remain in true alignemnt
with the saw even when either the saw or table is tilted.  
...................... . The provision of a spreader in connection
with the grooving, dadoing, or rabbeting is not required. On the
completion of such operations, the spreader shall be immediately
replaced.

It should not be for a Brit to comment on American regulations,
sensible though they appear, except to say that from what I can gather
>from  previous threads, it is the floating aspect of the crown guard
(hood), especially when starting a cut that frustrates some users, and
bad alignment of the splitter that causes problems. The former seems
difficult for the user to correct, but it seems that with a bit of
effort, badly-aligned splitters should be correctable or the OSHA regs
pointed out to the supplier.

Mabye the regs only apply to industrial situations, but presumably
manufacturers must envisage the use of their equipment in workplaces.

UK regs are similar, though crown guards need not float, but the
lowest portion must be fixed no higher than 1/2" above the workpiece,
if memory serves correctly. To repeatedly do this when odd-jobbing
with variety of material size, (as most amateurs seem to do) requires
enormous self-discipline, so though I personally think that an
adjustable, but correctly located guard might be better, the American
reg seems to take human nature better into account.

Use the gopher folks and read all of it. It might be worth the effort.

I think that if you remove the last two directories from the address
you should have the main gopher index, though I haven't checked.

Jeff
-- 
Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire
[email-masked]

---

From: Bruce Johnson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:40:48 -0800

> Is/Are these Leichtung whell arms you reference the item that I know as

Hello Termite!

No, they're not. I also have a set of the Board Buddies hold downs with
the yellow wheels. For those of you just joining us, the Board Buddies
mount to the top of the fence, and have spring-loaded pivoting arms that
are perpendicular to the fence, with cone shaped urethane wheels on the
ends that have one-way sprag clutches in their hubs. They work, but
there are two things I didn't like about them: 1.) You can't position
them very close to the fence when ripping narrow strips, and 2.) they
have to be constantly readjusted for different thicknesses of wood. 

The Leichtung hold down system is available from Leichtung Co., an
interesting little mail-order outfit that was recently bought out by
Woodworker's Supply. I think it's listed in the newest Woodworker's
Supply catalog. It's only about $40.

The Leichtung system's pivoting arms run parallel to the fence (actually
you adjust them to angle a few degrees towards the fence), and the
(cylindrical) wheels mount on the side of the arms towards the fence.
They can be adjusted right up against the fence to effectively hold down
1/4" wide strips. The arms have lots of travel, and will handle wood
>from  1/8" to 2" thick with no readjustment. 

For anti-kickback, the wheels have fairly coarse ratchets in the hubs,
so the wood will move back about 1/8" before they lock up. It really
works. The wide surface of the wheels, combined with the self-energizing
geometry of the arms, make them really grab the board tightly. It takes
a lot of muscle to pull a board backwards through them.

One thing that needs some work is the mounting system. They have
built-in T-handle clamps, but they don't open wide enough to clamp onto
most serious fences. I mounted a 1 1/4" square strip of maple to the top
of my Beisemeyer for them to clamp to. 

Overall, it's a well designed safety accessory for a tablesaw. I hope
Woodworker's Supply makes a few improvements and sells a lot of them.

Bruce Johnson