Subject: Hot Melt does provide permanent bond

From: "Dung A. Le" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:14:56 -0800

I've read over and over about comments that hot melt does not provide
permanent bond and that it is only good for temporary bonds.  Has anyone
looked at expensive oak furnitures?  How about table tops?  Read any
good books?  You'll find hot melts holding these things together.  Hot
melt formula varies a lot and there are so much to choose from.  Hot
melt moisture-cure like H.B. Fuller's HL-9527 bonds Polypropylene to
Polypropylene.  If you need more information or have a specific
question, send me an e-mail.

Regards,

Glueman

http://www.sure.net/~glueman

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From: [email-masked] (John Paquay)
Date: 31 Mar 1997 19:06:37 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] says...
>question, send me an e-mail.

Well, since you have a vested interest in hot melt glue sticks, this
is the sort of response I would expect.  You should also be able
to provide us with some technical and performance data to back
up your claims, i.e. bond strength, shear strength, etc.  Please do so.

There are indeed some applications where hot melt adhesives work
well -- very few of them are related to high quality woodworking.
In fact, veneering is the only application which readily comes to mind.

As far as expensive oak furniture being held together by hot melt,
well, I'm still giggling over that one...

-- 
John Paquay
Dept. of Physics, Purdue University
[email-masked],  [email-masked]
http://www.physics.purdue.edu/~jep/cshop.html
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From: Jim Dalton <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:28:23 -0500

I have sold adhesives to the furniture industry for 28 years, and know a
bit about it.  Hot melt glue sticks, such a found in your typical glue
gun, are formulated primarily from Ethylene Vinyl Acetate, (EVA), and
probably do not offer structural, (permanent) bonds for most adhesive
applications.  The "hot melt" used by the old craftsmen was hot glue,
but it was hide glue, which has to be heated in a pot.  It was, and is,
excellent for wood to wood bonds, but messy, smelly, and has short pot
life.
The new moisture cure polyurethanes such as the fuller # glueman cites,
are especially good for bonding wood, as well as plastics, metal, etc. 
A standard glue gun will not dispense these products, however, the
leasst expensive tool I know of for dispensing them is the 3M gun @
$1000.

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From: [email-masked] (John Paquay)
Date: 31 Mar 1997 19:13:59 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] says...
>well, I'm still giggling over that one...

Just as a point of clarification, the most recent discussion of
hot melt glues revolved around *glue stick guns*, rather than
traditional hot hide glue, which we all know has some excellent
properties and applications in joinery.  But trying to get those
kinds of properties out of a stick-fed glue gun are pretty hopeless
without some pretty amazing setup and clamping arrangements.

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From: [email-masked] (P. Rose)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 17:26:00 -0500

Dear Glueman,
Please note that this is a "recreational" newsgroup. Questions, like the
one posed about hot melt glue are typically asked by the hobbyist/amateur.
Are the so-called "permanent bond" hot melt formulations you refer to
available in sticks that fit in the $9.95 hot-melt glue guns that are used
by most of the readers in this newsgroup (the ones that use hot-melt glue,
that is)?

Also, note that--from a serious woodworker's point of view--pieces that
are classified as  "expensive furniture" are very often *not*
"high-quality furniture". In fact, expensive production furniture is
seldom of very high quality. 

I appreciate the URL for your website, but frankly, I couldn't extract
much useful information from it before giving up in frustration. :-(

BTW--as to "reading good books"--I recently finished reading John Irving's
"Son of the Circus". A great read. The pages/cover were not in good shape,
but the hot melt glue holding this paperback volume together seemed to be
doing a good job ;-)

>http://www.sure.net/~glueman

Phil Rose

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From: [email-masked] (LEE WARD)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 10:28:00 -0600

My question is How do ya keep the Hotmelt glue liquified if yer gluin a
huge tabletop etc? Wouldnt the glue be settin up or solidifyin before ya
get the wood structure in place or assembled?
                                     LW

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From: [email-masked] (Hodcarry)
Date: 1 Apr 1997 19:21:55 GMT

?A really really big microwave oven?