Subject: Wood finish care question

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 22:53:58 -0600

Hi, all.
	My wife asked me a question about furniture oils (i.e. Old English
Lemon Oil) to which I just couldn't give a definitive answer.  I'm
hoping for a little learned advice from some of you serious woodworking
gurus.

Since shellacs, varnishes, and polyurethanes deposit a relatively thick
layer into and on the wood's surface, how can a funiture oil, (or
polish) penetrate and moisturize subsurface wood?  Are these finishes
permeable to oils, or are they porous?  

The question came up when we aquired a 1936 student desk.  It would seem
to need moisture in the wood since I'm certain it hasn't seen any
regular care, and probably quite a bit of abuse.  Any thoughts on the
subject?

Thanks,
Terry
(Defuzelier)

---

From: Henry Douglas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:38:04 -0500

> regular care, and probably quite a bit of abuse.  Any thoughts on the
If you have a varthane, varnish finish on and then put a Lemon Oil for
example over top, the oil DOES NOT go through the finish.  The oil is
protecting the finish itself.  Another and better product is to put a
light coat of wax over the finish and buff it up.  This is called
dressing your furniture and buy the best wax you can find with a high
carnuba content such as Johnson's Treewax.  Dressing your finish
protects the finish, not the project.  

Hope this helps.
Henry from Kingston

---

From: [email-masked] (Craig1708)
Date: 10 Feb 1997 18:42:32 GMT

This is one of the areas that is full of myth and "snake oil" 
To begin with, wood can not be "fed", it is not a cat. Wood drys out due
to the loss of moisture. As relative humidity levels drop, the moisture
content within the wood attempts to equalize  itself with the surrounding
enviroment, causing the wood to shrink and "dry out".  No amount of lemon
oil (which is baby oil with a scent) or any other oil will reverse this or
stop it. And you are correct in thinking that there is a layer of finish
on the wood stopping any oil from even getting to the wood. Some old
surfaces are crazed and cracked and will allow the oil to get to the wood
only to discolor the wood in the pattern of the cracked surface.
Like wise, finishes can not be "fed". It is chemically impossible. Take
shellac for instance. It is an alcohol based resin, a petroleum based
product has not affect.
Even an oil based varnish can not be helped in this way. Once the varnish
has polymerized, it is a different material than when you started and can
not be reveresed or fed with more oil.
What often see after using oil on an object is what we call the illusion
of gloss. That is, the liquid layer allows us to see the surface more
clearly, thus making it look better, by saturating the surface.
Oils will also act as a dirt and dust trap. The thin layer that is left on
the finish attracts dust and holds on to it. Oils like linseed, tung,&
walnut are drying oils. Once they dry, all of the polllutants are trapped
in the oil film creating a difficult mess to remove.
All in all, it is not advisable to use oil on wood and its protective
finishes. 
Alcohol based finishes can be helped and made visually more appealing with
out removal bt adding the appropriate SOLVENT and reforming the film.
What we do recommend is a coat of paste wax on the finish, it can easliy
be removed as opposed to oil.

**************************************************************************
Craig Deller
The Deller Conservation Group Ltd
Geneva, Illinois
USA
[email-masked]                "Conservators make it last longer"
http://home.aol.com/DELLERCON
***************************************************************************

---

From: [email-masked] (Steve Knight)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:47:37 GMT

>> regular care, and probably quite a bit of abuse.  Any thoughts on the

Wood does not need "moisture" added too it. Oil would not do that
anyway. This is all hype that furniture polish companies promote to
seel almost worthless product. All Polish does is make the piece smell
good and make it slippery. So things tend to slide off not dig in. Any
oil only works on bare wood or wood with oil and or wax.

Doggie~ on Irc

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:02:48 -0500

> oil only works on bare wood or wood with oil and or wax.

More important is that furniture polishes which are milky white and need
to be shaken are emulsifications which have the ability to remove
fingerprints and body oils on finished surfaces which over a long period
of time can soften a finish (look at many banisters: that gunk is a
combination of your softened finish and grime. Yuk! Check out the worn
finish near drawer and door pulls. Are fingertips are not that abrasive
-- unless you are a safecracker -- that we abrade the finish. Once again
the culprit is a chemical interaction of our oils, or harsh soaps,
softening and waring away the finish).

Is polish like Weiman's, Guardsman, Endust or even Pledge (which has a
60% market share!) as "worthless" as stated above? Not given what I said
about a polish's ability to clean without damaging the finish (Guardsman
recommends using it no more than once a month which would lead you to
believe that the emulsifiers (they break up grease and oils so that they
can be carried away by the water that is in most of these polishes) in
it has a high enough alkilinity that this type of care is needed.
-- 
Daniel

---

From: [email-masked] (Robert Klein)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:05:35 GMT

The wood doesn't need moisture added nor does the finish need
'feeding'.

Let's think cleaning here.  Some products add a sheen because they
have non drying oils in them (the famous but useless lemon oil
marketing), or silicone.  Both look nice for a while till they grab
all the dust and moisture out of the air.  Endust is a good dusting
aid.

Paste wax is the best care product, some have silicone some do not,
some have solvents that can soften ancient finishes, some do not.  Use
it a couple of times a year or three.  Applying the wax will remove
the old wax, dirt, grime, etc.

I have a short list of paste waxes that do not contain silicone but
most manufacturers will be glad to tell you if you ask.  Staples,
Butchers,  Johnson,  to name a few.
==================

>> oil only works on bare wood or wood with oil and or wax.
Regards,

Robert Klein
Robert's Antiques and Restoration
2500 North T Street
Pensacola, FL  32505   USA

[email-masked]
[email-masked]