From ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Jun  5 04:45:53 EDT 1994
Article: 34095 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Ken Toews)
Subject: Re: Pesticide FAQ
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In a previous article, daniel.mascheck@yob.com (Daniel Mascheck) says:

>KT.An addicted lawn is a lawn without a healty biologically
>.active soil. Pesticides like 2,4-D and MCPA destroy the life giving
>.property of soils making harmful fertilizers like urea necessary.
>.a viscous and very profitable circle. Your lawn has become addicted
>.to drugs.
>
>I checked some of the facts and so called statistics you place on the 
>net, and.....many are grossly flawed or taken out of context.
>I think you need to look up some of the Data From Dr. Ames from 
>Berkley. Look up the trend of chemical useage vs % increase in cancer!
>You'll find that all have remained the same taking into effect the 
>increase in population, except one (lung cancer) which has steadily 
>climbed with smoking. Chemical useage has tripled and cancer is 
>flat. Your stats Stink! 


Doctor Ames of Berkley, come on, I quote only studies published in peer
reviewed scientific journal and medical journals. I would like to quote
from a more popular journal for your benefiet.

Reference the January 1994 Scientific America. Tim Beadsley " A War not
won-trends in Cancer Epidemiology" Pages 130 to 138. " The U.S. is losing
its war on cancer...the age adjusted cancer death rate continues to rise
slowly year after year, despite $25 billion spent to find a cure"
I would appreciate any published references that contradict that
statement. And please save the rantings of Doctor Ames unless his paper
has been published in a peer reviewed journal.


> >Many products
such as celery, peanuts have naturally occuring 
>carcinagens. Not from being sprayed!!! Many plants have toxins stronger 
>than man can invent!! Many we copy! .

Arguing by analogy is clever but rarely leads to an understanding of the
nature of the problem. 
Low levels of naturally occuring carcinogens in damaged produce does not
justify the widespread use of toxins that are not naturally occuring, 
that frequently break down into toxins more damaging than the origional
pesticide and which the consumer does not know the contents of.

I would highly reccomend that every gardener contact the New York State
Department of Law and ask for the "THE SECRET HAZARDS OF PESTICIDES: INERT
INGREDIENTS." Attorney General G Oliver Koppell is not a granola chewing
hippies, as some would to characterize people who are concerned about
hazardous chemical use.

The Book is free. I live in Canada and they mailed it acrosss the border
no charge. God Bless America.



>
>If we use your logic, we can ban almost every modern device from 
>cars(kill plenty of folks) to my 486, I'm not planning on giving up!!
>.
If you want to argue the relative merits of cars and 486s I suggest you
log on to talk. environment or rec.auto.

All my Love Ken... 

-- 
           0    >:<   Factoid: the average car Kills 32 moths, 67 flies, 
        _ /=_        9 Bees, and 2 Monarch Butterflies/ hr. But who really
......(_)>(_)........cares, Now watch that sucker swallow a moth.
Hah he's probably a vegatarian.


From ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Jun  5 04:56:31 EDT 1994
Article: 34133 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Ken Toews)
Subject: Re: Pesticide FAQ
Message-ID: <CqqE2w.MLG@freenet.carleton.ca>
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Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 18:30:32 GMT
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>
>In a previous article, daniel.mascheck@yob.com (Daniel Mascheck) says:
>
>>
>>I checked some of the facts and so called statistics you place on the 
>>net, and.....many are grossly flawed or taken out of context.
>>I think you need to look up some of the Data From Dr. Ames from 
>>Berkley. Look up the trend of chemical useage vs % increase in cancer!
>>You'll find that all have remained the same taking into effect the 
>>increase in population, except one (lung cancer) which has steadily 
>>climbed with smoking. Chemical useage has tripled and cancer is 
>>flat. Your stats Stink! 
>
Dr Bruce Ames most famous publicaton that popularized the notion that
cancer rates are not increasing and what cancer we did get was caused
by peanut butter was first
published as "Ranking Possible Carcinogenic Hazards" in Science Vol 236
April 17 1987.

The great thing about peer review is that other intelligent people look at
your work and respond.

This happend to Dr Ames, He and his theory that Peanut butter and brocolli
were causing the epidemic of cancer were refuted by at least 15 serious
papers. His theories are not regarded as credible

If you are going to quote Dr Ames research you had better read what other
scientist think of his resarch otherwise you will sound silly.

Consider reading

Samuel Epstein, and others, Carcinogenic Risk Estimation. Science Vol 240
May 1988 Pages 1043-1045

Devra Lee Davis "Paleolithic Diet, Evolution and Carcinogens Science
December 18 1987

Fredrica Perera and Paolo Boffetta "Perspectives on Comparing Risks of
Environmental Carcinogens" Journal of the National Cancer Institute Volume
80 No 16 pages 1282-1293

If after reading all that you dont see a conection between Chemicals
produced by man, chemicals that never existed on this planet before we
started playing chemistry and cancer read:

Mortality and Toxics along the Mississippi River by Ben Goldman. The
farther down the mississippi the higher the incidence of pollution and the
incidence of cancers.

FACTS FOR GARDENERS

1: PESTICIDES CAUSE CANCER

2: PESTICIDE EXPOSURE IS CUMULATIVE

3: PESTICIDES ARE NOT NEEDED.

Anyone who would like to have copies of studies that support these
contentions please email me I would be happy to respond
All my love Ken


-- 
           0    >:<   Factoid: the average car Kills 32 moths, 67 flies, 
        _ /=_        9 Bees, and 2 Monarch Butterflies/ hr. But who really
......(_)>(_)........cares, Now watch that sucker swallow a moth.
Hah he's probably a vegatarian.


From dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com Sun Jun  5 05:09:18 EDT 1994
Article: 34034 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com (Dave Schmitz)
Subject: Re: Synthetic pesticides
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Quoting from earlier posts . . .

> >>>number of deaths due to cancer has risen astronomically in our
> >>>post war industrial age.  I don't think this is a coincidence.

> women getting older. The National academy of sciences estimates that 3% of
> all cancers are caused by pesticides. Gardeners use pesticides, and the
> debate is very relevant here.

> Pesticides pose a very serious health risk. Cancer is becoming more
> prevalent.

I grew up in a farm state, and in going back on visits, it is striking
how many farmers have come down with prostate trouble.  Does anyone
know of a connection?

Also, there are songbirds, whoops, _were_ songbirds, that I don't hear
any more.

As an interesting aside, y'all remember the Newsweek issue about pollution,
the one that had an article about the chemical plants on the lower
Mississippi, the one that had a back cover advertisement for herbicides
for a beautiful green lawn ?

Dave
                  o s
Disclaimer under c n tr   ion:  No one can have my opinyns   ///////
                       uct                         opinuyns  ///////
                                                   opiniuns  ///////
                                                   views.






From nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu Sun Jun  5 05:10:09 EDT 1994
Article: 34422 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: Bob Klebba <nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Synthetic pesticides
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In article <CqoHsv.L1q@stortek.com> Dave Schmitz,
dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com writes:
> I grew up in a farm state, and in going back on visits, it is striking
> how many farmers have come down with prostate trouble.  Does anyone
> know of a connection?

I live in an agricultural area of an agricultural state.  I don't know about
prostate cancer, but I can tell you that when I go to the coop, I see a lot of
farmers with loss of pigmentation on the hands and forearms.  I know that most
of them are more careful nowadays with their chemicals, but it's pretty
obvious that they haven't always been.

Robert Klebba  USDA zone 4
Nicolet Instrument Corp.
Madison, WI, USA
"Submit to Barney"


From ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Jun  5 05:11:17 EDT 1994
Article: 34225 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Ken Toews)
Subject: Re: Synthetic pesticides
Message-ID: <Cqrwx8.AAs@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (Usenet News Admin)
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Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 14:15:08 GMT
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In a previous article, dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com (Dave Schmitz) says:

>Quoting from earlier posts . . .
>
>> >>>number of deaths due to cancer has risen astronomically in our
>> >>>post war industrial age.  I don't think this is a coincidence.
>
>> women getting older. The National academy of sciences estimates that 3% of
>> all cancers are caused by pesticides. Gardeners use pesticides, and the
>> debate is very relevant here.
>
>> Pesticides pose a very serious health risk. Cancer is becoming more
>> prevalent.
>
>I grew up in a farm state, and in going back on visits, it is striking
>how many farmers have come down with prostate trouble.  Does anyone
>know of a connection?
>
>Also, there are songbirds, whoops, _were_ songbirds, that I don't hear
>any more.
>
>As an interesting aside, y'all remember the Newsweek issue about pollution,
>the one that had an article about the chemical plants on the lower
>Mississippi, the one that had a back cover advertisement for herbicides
>for a beautiful green lawn ?
>
>Dave
>                  o s
>Disclaimer under c n tr   ion:  No one can have my opinyns   ///////
>                       uct                         opinuyns  ///////
>                                                   opiniuns  ///////
>                                                   views.
>
>
>
>
>

Your right about prostate cancer and the lower mississipi. 

For interesting reading about the lower mississippi and the pollution
there read

Ben Goldman, Mortality and Toxics along the mississippi,
Washington D.C. Greenpeace 1988

As for prostate cancer
     There have been over 200 independent studies that link 2,4-D
with various diseases. 2,4-D is found in 1,500 over the counter
weed killers.  The National Cancer Institute has linked pesticide
exposures to lymphatic cancers. Their study was based on 948
farmers who had cancer and an equal number who did not. Exposed
individuals were 600% more likely to contract cancer than people
who did not contact the pesticide. Farmers who used protective
equipment, such as respirators, gloves, and a change of clothing
after contact were able to reduce the risk by only 20%.
     Hazleton laboratories found that 10% of rats exposed to 2,4-D
developed brain tumours. 2,4-D is contaminated with dioxins during
manufacture. Dioxins are the most potent poison known to man. 
     The Veterans Legal Services Project of Washington D.C.
reviewed 285 different published studies of human exposure to
phenoxy herbicides and dioxins. They found that they caused
specific cancers, skin and liver disorders, reproductive and
developmental disorders, low sperm counts, spontaneous abortions in
the wives of the affected individuals, increased birth defects,
including skin, nerve, heart, kidney, and cleft lips and palate.
The study went on to say there was "sound scientific evidence" of
an association between the 2-4,D and a whole host of other diseases
including cancer of the kidney, testicles, stomach, colon,
>>>>prostate<<<<<, liver, psychological effects, immune system
disorders, gastrointestinal ulcers, and altered lipid metabolism.
     Another common chemical used for lawn care is M.C.P.A. (4-
CHLOR-2METHYLPHENOXY ACIDIC ACID). This is an organic acid that is
closely related to 2,4-D. The chemical industry will create a
compound similar to a pesticide that is found to be dangerous. It
takes years for the new chemical to be proven as dangerous as the
old chemical.  
     The two most common weed killers used around the home are 2,4-
D and diazanon. Diazanon is known to be a hazard to songbirds.
SOURCES: 

A. Blair, " Herbicides and non-Hodgkins lymphoma New evidence from
a study of Saskatchewan farmers" Journal of the National Cancer
Institute Volume 82 1990 Pages 544-545

Olav Axelson and others, " Herbicide Exposure and Tumour Mortality"
Scandinavian Journal of Work, Environment, and Health Volume 6
March 1980 pages 73-79

Mikael Eriksson and others," Exposure to Dioxins as a risk factor
for Soft Tissue Sarcoma: A Population based case control study"
Journal of the National Cancer Institute Volume 82 March 22 1991
pages 486-490

National Veterans Legal Services Project "Human Health Effects
Associated with exposure to Herbicides and or their associated
Contaminants - Chlorinated Dioxins" (Washington D.C. National
Veterans Legal Services Project, 2001 S Street N.W. Washington D.C.A recent study in the British Medical Journal concluded that
men in western countries today have sperm counts less than half as
high as their grandfathers had at the same age. In addition the
increase in cancer of the testicles has increased 4 fold in the
last 40 years; and various birth defects to the male reproductive
system have increased 4 fold during the same time period. 
     Evidence is mounting that these changes are caused by exposure
of males very early in life to chemicals that act like estrogens.
Synthetic chemicals that mimic estrogens include contraceptives,
D.E.S. which was fed to beef cattle from the 50's to the 70's, and
pesticides.  We now live in an environment that can be viewed as a
virtual sea of estrogens. 
     Chlorinated hydrocarbons, ie pesticides, mimic hormones and
interfere with the endocrine system of wildlife and humans. Studies
link them to breast cancer in women and testicular cancer in their
sons and prostate cancer in older men. Thus breast cancer,
testicular cancer, and defects in the male reproductive system
including diminished sperm count all seem linked.
     Diminished sperm count is a serious matter. Many animals
produce up to 1,400 times as much sperm as is needed for fertility.
In contrast the average human produces only 2 to 4 times as much
sperm as is needed to fertilize a human egg.
Sources:
E Carlsen and others, "Evidence for decreasing quality of semen
during past 50 years." British Medical Journal Vol 305 1992 pages
609-613

A.Giwercman and others "The human testis-an organ at risk?"
International Journal of Andrology? Vol 15 1992 pages 373-375.

R Sharpe and others "Are Estrogens involved in falling sperm counts
and disorders of the male reproductive tract" The Lancet Vol 341
May 1993 pages 1392-1395.

R.Sharpe "Are oestrogens involved in falling sperm counts..." The
Lancet Volume 341 May 29 1993.

"Estrogen chemicals lower sperm count"  Chemical and Engineering
News June 7 1993 pages 28.

Plus 12 other research paper on the same topic indicating the same
conclusion.

New York office of the Attorney General. Ask for "The secret
Hazards of Pesticides Inert Ingredients" by Susan Jaffe, Michael
Surgan and Timothy P. Urban. Free copies of this report are
available from  the Office of Public Information NY State
Department of Law, 120 Broadway N.Y. N.Y. 10271.

"Lawn care pesticides. Risks remain uncertain while prohibited
safety claims continue". U.S. Accounting office Free Upon request
phone orders accepted 1-202-512-6000 Ask for document # RCED-90-134

THE UNIVERSITY OF WESTERN ONTARIO
DEPARTMENT OF PLANT SCIENCES

June 21 1993

Dear Council

RE: TOXIC PROPERTIES OF PESTICIDES USED ON CITY PARKS AND PROPERTY

In reply to the clerks letter and report of June 11 1993 I have
prepared comments on the toxic threat of pesticides listed in the
report. For the most part the information was gathered from BASIC
GUIDE TO PESTICIDES, S BRIGGS 1992.  In some instances I will list
other authoritative sources that include additional information.

INSECTICIDES

ACEPHATES: (Orthene) mutagen,carcinogen, fetotoxic, and feminizes
rats, kills birds.
BASCILLUS THURINGIENSIS: (Dipel) no problems other than use
promotes genetic tolerance in pests
BENDIOCARB (Trumpet) causes cataracts in people and kills birds
CARBARYL (Sevin) mutagen, carcinogen, potent at causing birth
defects
CHLOROPYRIFOS (Dursban) fetotoxic, delayed nerve damage
(demylenation) causing loss of use of limbs, kills birds, causes
multiple sclerosis and atopy (allergy). Arch.Env.Health, 48,89,1993
DIAZINON mutagen, nerve tonic, allergic dermatitis, damages immune
system. Kills songbirds and Canada Geese. Banned for lawn
application in the USA.
DIAZINON G mutagen, nerve tonic, allergic dermatitis, damages
immune system. Kills songs birds and Canada geese, Banned in USA
DICHLORVOS D.D.V.P. carcinogen, mutagen, birth defects, testicular
atrophy
DIMETHOATE (Lagon) carcinogen, mutagen, birth defects, testicular
atrophy.
KINOPRENE (Enstar) (E,E)- 3,7,11-trimethyl-2,4-dodecornoate No
information available.
MALATHION mutagen,birth defects, delayed nerve damage
MINERAL OIL (Dormant Oil) implicated in human cancer (IARC)
POT. SALTS OF FATTY ACIDS (Soap) safe

MITICIDES

DIENOCHLOR (Pentac) chronic studies not available.
FENBUTATINOXIDE (Vendex) chronic studies not available however many
related biotin pesticides cause birth defects.

HERBICIDES

2,4-D - causes cancer in humans and dogs, birth defects.
2,4-D MECOPROP - mutation, birth defects (Mecoprop)
2,4-D MECOPROP DICAMBA (dicamba) birth defects, mutation (dicamba)
British J.Ind.Med.50,340,1993
FENOXAPROP ( Acclaim ) birth defects
GLYPHOSATE: (Round up) carcinogen, mutagen. May contain
contaminants such as dioxane a carcinogen or POEA implicated in
fatal poisonings.

FUNGICIDES

ANILANZINE: (Dyrene) chronic toxicity unreported
BENOMYL (Benlate) carcinogen, birth defects, reduced sperm
CHLORONEB (Terraneb) Kidney, liver and blood damage
CHLOROTHALONIL (Daconil) carcinogen, eye and skin damage.
IPRODIONE  WP (Rovral) chronic toxicity unreported
PCNB: (Quintozene) mutagen, toxic to fish and birds.
SULPHUR: safe
THIOPHANATE METHYL: (Easeout) decrease body weight of newborn
THIRAM: mutagen, carcinogen, birth defects.
TRIFORINE: (Funginex) carcinogen IARC sci. Publ. 1980

               GROWTH REGULATORS

DAMINOZIDE: (B - nine) (Alar) cancer of blood cells
MALEIC HYDRAZIDE: (Maintain) cancer IARC 1974

Finally, I wish to strongly urge the use of diazinon and
chloropyrophos be discontinued. Song bird populations are beginning
to decline to tragic levels in part due to these pesticides. The
impact chloropyophos on multiple sclerosis and atopy ( allergy
mainly asthma ) means that it may create human suffering when used
in public locations.

Sincerely

(Signed)

J.E. Cummins
Assoc.Prof(Genetics)


End of document from J.E.Cummins















-- 
           0    >:<   Factoid: the average car Kills 32 moths, 67 flies, 
        _ /=_        9 Bees, and 2 Monarch Butterflies/ hr. But who really
......(_)>(_)........cares, Now watch that sucker swallow a moth.
Hah he's probably a vegatarian.


