Subject: Re: Pesticide FAQ

From: [email-masked] (Ken Toews)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 14:21:54 GMT

In a previous article, [email-masked] (Daniel Mascheck) says:

>KT.An addicted lawn is a lawn without a healty biologically
>.active soil. Pesticides like 2,4-D and MCPA destroy the life giving
>.property of soils making harmful fertilizers like urea necessary.
>.a viscous and very profitable circle. Your lawn has become addicted
>.to drugs.
>
>I checked some of the facts and so called statistics you place on the 
>net, and.....many are grossly flawed or taken out of context.
>I think you need to look up some of the Data From Dr. Ames from 
>Berkley. Look up the trend of chemical useage vs % increase in cancer!
>You'll find that all have remained the same taking into effect the 
>increase in population, except one (lung cancer) which has steadily 
>climbed with smoking. Chemical useage has tripled and cancer is 
>flat. Your stats Stink! 

Doctor Ames of Berkley, come on, I quote only studies published in peer
reviewed scientific journal and medical journals. I would like to quote
from a more popular journal for your benefiet.

Reference the January 1994 Scientific America. Tim Beadsley " A War not
won-trends in Cancer Epidemiology" Pages 130 to 138. " The U.S. is losing
its war on cancer...the age adjusted cancer death rate continues to rise
slowly year after year, despite $25 billion spent to find a cure"
I would appreciate any published references that contradict that
statement. And please save the rantings of Doctor Ames unless his paper
has been published in a peer reviewed journal.

> >Many products
such as celery, peanuts have naturally occuring 
>carcinagens. Not from being sprayed!!! Many plants have toxins stronger 
>than man can invent!! Many we copy! .

Arguing by analogy is clever but rarely leads to an understanding of the
nature of the problem. 
Low levels of naturally occuring carcinogens in damaged produce does not
justify the widespread use of toxins that are not naturally occuring, 
that frequently break down into toxins more damaging than the origional
pesticide and which the consumer does not know the contents of.

I would highly reccomend that every gardener contact the New York State
Department of Law and ask for the "THE SECRET HAZARDS OF PESTICIDES: INERT
INGREDIENTS." Attorney General G Oliver Koppell is not a granola chewing
hippies, as some would to characterize people who are concerned about
hazardous chemical use.

The Book is free. I live in Canada and they mailed it acrosss the border
no charge. God Bless America.

>
>If we use your logic, we can ban almost every modern device from 
>cars(kill plenty of folks) to my 486, I'm not planning on giving up!!
>.
If you want to argue the relative merits of cars and 486s I suggest you
log on to talk. environment or rec.auto.

All my Love Ken... 

-- 
           0    >:<   Factoid: the average car Kills 32 moths, 67 flies, 
        _ /=_        9 Bees, and 2 Monarch Butterflies/ hr. But who really
......(_)>(_)........cares, Now watch that sucker swallow a moth.
Hah he's probably a vegatarian.

---

From: [email-masked] (Ken Toews)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 18:30:32 GMT

>>climbed with smoking. Chemical useage has tripled and cancer is 
Dr Bruce Ames most famous publicaton that popularized the notion that
cancer rates are not increasing and what cancer we did get was caused
by peanut butter was first
published as "Ranking Possible Carcinogenic Hazards" in Science Vol 236
April 17 1987.

The great thing about peer review is that other intelligent people look at
your work and respond.

This happend to Dr Ames, He and his theory that Peanut butter and brocolli
were causing the epidemic of cancer were refuted by at least 15 serious
papers. His theories are not regarded as credible

If you are going to quote Dr Ames research you had better read what other
scientist think of his resarch otherwise you will sound silly.

Consider reading

Samuel Epstein, and others, Carcinogenic Risk Estimation. Science Vol 240
May 1988 Pages 1043-1045

Devra Lee Davis "Paleolithic Diet, Evolution and Carcinogens Science
December 18 1987

Fredrica Perera and Paolo Boffetta "Perspectives on Comparing Risks of
Environmental Carcinogens" Journal of the National Cancer Institute Volume
80 No 16 pages 1282-1293

If after reading all that you dont see a conection between Chemicals
produced by man, chemicals that never existed on this planet before we
started playing chemistry and cancer read:

Mortality and Toxics along the Mississippi River by Ben Goldman. The
farther down the mississippi the higher the incidence of pollution and the
incidence of cancers.

FACTS FOR GARDENERS

1: PESTICIDES CAUSE CANCER

2: PESTICIDE EXPOSURE IS CUMULATIVE

3: PESTICIDES ARE NOT NEEDED.

Anyone who would like to have copies of studies that support these
contentions please email me I would be happy to respond
All my love Ken