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There are 8 messages totalling 633 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Mosquitoes (2)
  2. bonjour (4)
  3. German Democracy
  4. Yalta Conference (20k)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 07:46:51 +0000
From:    bsmart@VERDIX.COM
Subject: Re: Mosquitoes

> In the heartwrenching stories category:
> Last year I met an ex-RAF pilot who flew Mosquitoes from the late 40's
> until he was moved to jets in the mid 50's.  He told me how one day he
> was ordered to fly his Mosquito down to Singapore, where he watched as
> they chopped it up with hatchets. Argh!!

My father used to tell about the destruction of aircraft after WW2. His father
was a proffesional photographer in Arkansas. Dad was taken along on assignments
sometimes. This day they were at an airbase near Ft Smith ( the city in NW Ark)
aircraft were flown in taxied to the end of the parking area, allowed to idle
until they drained the tank ( not very long) then a frontend loader picked up
the tail and stood it on the nose. every couple planes a bull dozer would push
the row closer together. they had filled up one taxi way already.  He thought
they were eventually sold as scrap metal. This was being done to bombers and
fighters. I don't know what models. Dad died a few years ago and He wasn't a
real plane nut so I'm not sure I woulsd have trusted his identifications after
20+ years anyway.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 23:25:44 +1000
From:    ASRGF@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: Mosquitoes

Mosquitoes were built here in Australia during WW2, in fact our local aero
club, the Royal Newcastle Aero Club built the wingtips in an annex to their
workshops. The first prototype aussie Mosquito actually fell apart in the air
when the two engines seperated from the airframe. Consequently the first batch
of suspect wings etc were discarded and used for test purposes. There were
something like 100 sets, and apparently the data derived from the distructive
testing of them was extremely useful to aeronautics in general.

Apparently there is one aussie mosquito undergoing restoration now. Last year
at a local air show the Newcastle Historical Aircraft Society had the
complete tail section, including tailwheel of another on display as well. I
suspect that several hundred were made so there must be additional bits and
pieces around as well.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 16:46:40 WETDST
From:    Arnaud Bouis <bouis@CC.EC-LYON.FR>
Subject: bonjour

hello everyone,
just back on the list till monday (last time, as my account shall
be deleted soon *sigh*).
How's the list going ?
Any great debate going on ?

Arnaud Bouis

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 10:07:59 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: bonjour

>
> hello everyone,

 Welcome back!

> just back on the list till monday (last time, as my account shall
> be deleted soon *sigh*).

 You could explore public access, such as Compuserve, for access to the
list.  We also have a "digest" option now, so you can get the mail in
a single daily block.  Very handy for commericial access system where
you are charged by the message.

> How's the list going ?
> Any great debate going on ?

 Somehow the topic has turned to sometype of flying insect, but I'm not
following the discussion too closely, since the weapon calibre is so small
:-).

> Arnaud Bouis

Larry (Battleships forever!) J

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 17:44:58 WETDST
From:    Arnaud Bouis <bouis@CC.EC-LYON.FR>
Subject: Re: bonjour

>
> >
> > hello everyone,

>  You could explore public access, such as Compuserve, for access to the
> list.  We also have a "digest" option now, so you can get the mail in
> a single daily block.  Very handy for commericial access system where
> you are charged by the message.

I don't know compuserve. How to acceed it from France ? I have no idea.


>
>  Somehow the topic has turned to sometype of flying insect, but I'm not
> following the discussion too closely, since the weapon calibre is so small
> :-).

flying insects were the war "winner" indeed. Ask the japs and Aussies in
Papua :-)

INSECT
Maneuvrability : class 1
armament : one 1,5 mm sting
           plus provision for a couple of lethal diseases
range : 1 km, lo-lo-lo missions
entered service : 1939
production : over 1,000,000,000



> Larry (Battleships forever!) J

Arnaud (insecticide everywhere !)


...who, amazed, recently saw a Serb truck towing a ... 88mm German Pak gun !

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 13:54:07 +0000
From:    bsmart@VERDIX.COM
Subject: Re: bonjour

> > Larry (Battleships forever!) J
>
> Arnaud (insecticide everywhere !)
>
>
> ...who, amazed, recently saw a Serb truck towing a ... 88mm German Pak gun !

And you think you can just throw this in at the end of the message???
Details, we want the whole story

Tim is already packing his bag and checkbook, he needs it for those
re-eanctments!

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 13:52:00 EST
From:    GERHARD REMPEL <GREMPEL@WNEC.BITNET>
Subject: Re: German Democracy

<I'll upload this to Mike McCarthy's ftp site this weekend and, if there's
enough interest, I'll post it here.>

Larry J, please post. Thanks.

Gerhard Rempel
GRempel@WNEC/Western New England College, Springfield, Ma 01119. USA

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 20:19:15 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Yalta Conference (20k)

YALTA (CRIMEA) CONFERENCE
February, 1945

Washington, March 24 - The text of the agreements reached at the
Crimea (Yalta) Conference between President Roosevelt, Prime
Minister Churchill and Generalissimo Stalin, as released by the
State Department today, follows:

PROTOCOL OF PROCEEDINGS OF CRIMEA CONFERENCE

The Crimea Conference of the heads of the Governments of the
United States of America, the United Kingdom, and the Union of
Soviet Socialist Republics, which took place from Feb. 4 to 11,
came to the following conclusions:

I. WORLD ORGANIZATION

It was decided:

1. That a United Nations conference on the proposed world
organization should be summoned for Wednesday, 25 April, 1945,
and should be held in the United States of America.

2. The nations to be invited to this conference should be:

(a) the United Nations as they existed on 8 Feb., 1945; and

(b) Such of the Associated Nations as have declared war on the
common enemy by 1 March, 1945.  (For this purpose, by the term
"Associated Nations" was meant the eight Associated Nations and
Turkey.)  When the conference on world organization is held, the
delegates of the United Kingdom and United State of America will
support a proposal to admit to original membership two Soviet
Socialist Republics, i.e., the Ukraine and White Russia.

3. That the United States Government, on behalf of the three
powers, should consult the Government of China and the French
Provisional Government in regard to decisions taken at the
present conference concerning the proposed world organization.

4. That the text of the invitation to be issued to all the
nations which would take part in the United Nations conference
should be as follows:

"The Government of the United States of America, on behalf of
itself and of the Governments of the United Kingdom, the Union
of Soviet Socialistic Republics and the Republic of China and of
the Provisional Government of the French Republic invite the
Government of -------- to send representatives to a conference
to be held on 25 April, 1945, or soon thereafter , at San
Francisco, in the United States of America, to prepare a charter
for a general international organization for the maintenance of
international peace and security.

"The above-named Governments suggest that the conference
consider as affording a basis for such a Charter the proposals
for the establishment of a general international organization
which were made public last October as a result of the Dumbarton
Oaks conference and which have now been supplemented by the
following provisions for Section C of Chapter VI:

C. Voting

"1. Each member of the Security Council should have one vote.

"2. Decisions of the Security Council on procedural matters
should be made by an affirmative vote of seven members.

"3. Decisions of the Security Council on all matters should be
made by an affirmative vote of seven members, including the
concurring votes of the permanent members; provided that, in
decisions under Chapter VIII, Section A and under the second
sentence of Paragraph 1 of Chapter VIII, Section C, a party to a
dispute should abstain from voting.'

"Further information as to arrangements will be transmitted
subsequently.

"In the event that the Government of -------- desires in advance
of the conference to present views or comments concerning the
proposals, the Government of the United States of America will
be pleased to transmit such views and comments to the other
participating Governments."

Territorial trusteeship:

It was agreed that the five nations which will have permanent
seats on the Security Council should consult each other prior to
the United Nations conference on the question of territorial
trusteeship.

The acceptance of this recommendation is subject to its being
made clear that territorial trusteeship will only apply to (a)
existing mandates of the League of Nations; (b) territories
detached from the enemy as a result of the present war; (c) any
other territory which might voluntarily be placed under
trusteeship; and (d) no discussion of actual territories is
contemplated at the forthcoming United Nations conference or in
the preliminary consultations, and it will be a matter for
subsequent agreement which territories within the above
categories will be place under trusteeship.

[Begin first section published Feb., 13, 1945.]

II. DECLARATION OF LIBERATED EUROPE

The following declaration has been approved:

The Premier of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the
Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and the President of the
United States of America have consulted with each other in the
common interests of the people of their countries and those of
liberated Europe.  They jointly declare their mutual agreement
to concert during the temporary period of instability in
liberated Europe the policies of their three Governments in
assisting the peoples liberated from the domination of Nazi
Germany and the peoples of the former Axis satellite states of
Europe to solve by democratic means their pressing political and
economic problems.

The establishment of order in Europe and the rebuilding of
national economic life must be achieved by processes which will
enable the liberated peoples to destroy the last vestiges of
nazism and fascism and to create democratic institutions of
their own choice.  This is a principle of the Atlantic Charter -
the right of all people to choose the form of government under
which they will live - the restoration of sovereign rights and
self-government to those peoples who have been forcibly deprived
to them by the aggressor nations.

To foster the conditions in which the liberated people may
exercise these rights, the three governments will jointly assist
the people in any European liberated state or former Axis state
in Europe where, in their judgment conditions require, (a) to
establish conditions of internal peace; (b) to carry out
emergency relief measures for the relief of distressed peoples;
(c) to form interim governmental authorities broadly
representative of all democratic elements in the population and
pledged to the earliest possible establishment through free
elections of Governments responsive to the will of the people;
and (d) to facilitate where necessary the holding of such
elections.

The three Governments will consult the other United Nations and
provisional authorities or other Governments in Europe when
matters of direct interest to them are under consideration.

When, in the opinion of the three Governments, conditions in any
European liberated state or former Axis satellite in Europe make
such action necessary, they will immediately consult together on
the measure necessary to discharge the joint responsibilities
set forth in this declaration.

By this declaration we reaffirm our faith in the principles of
the Atlantic Charter, our pledge in the Declaration by the
United Nations and our determination to build in cooperation
with other peace-loving nations world order, under law,
dedicated to peace, security, freedom and general well-being of
all mankind.

In issuing this declaration, the three powers express the hope
that the Provisional Government of the French Republic may be
associated with them in the procedure suggested.

[End first section published Feb., 13, 1945.]

III. DISMEMBERMENT OF GERMANY

It was agreed that Article 12 (a) of the Surrender terms for
Germany should be amended to read as follows:

"The United Kingdom, the United States of America and the Union
of Soviet Socialist Republics shall possess supreme authority
with respect to Germany.  In the exercise of such authority they
will take such steps, including the complete dismemberment of
Germany as they deem requisite for future peace and security."

The study of the procedure of the dismemberment of Germany was
referred to a committee consisting of Mr. Anthony Eden, Mr. John
Winant, and Mr. Fedor T. Gusev.  This body would consider the
desirability of associating with it a French representative.

IV. ZONE OF OCCUPATION FOR THE FRENCH AND CONTROL COUNCIL FOR
GERMANY.

It was agreed that a zone in Germany, to be occupied by the
French forces, should be allocated France.  This zone would be
formed out of the British and American zones and its extent
would be settled by the British and Americans in consultation
with the French Provisional Government.

It was also agreed that the French Provisional Government should
be invited to become a member of the Allied Control Council for
Germany.

V. REPARATION

The following protocol has been approved:

Protocol

On the Talks Between the Heads of Three Governments at the
Crimean Conference on the Question of the German Reparations in
Kind


1. Germany must pay in kind for the losses caused by her to the
Allied nations in the course of the war. Reparations are to be
received in the first instance by those countries which have
borne the main burden of the war, have suffered the heaviest
losses and have organized victory over the enemy.

2. Reparation in kind is to be exacted from Germany in three
following forms:

(a) Removals within two years from the surrender of Germany or
the cessation of organized resistance from the national wealth
of Germany located on the territory of Germany herself as well
as outside her territory (equipment, machine tools, ships,
rolling stock, German investments abroad, shares of industrial,
transport and other enterprises in Germany, etc.), these
removals to be carried out chiefly for the purpose of destroying
the war potential of Germany.

(b) Annual deliveries of goods from current production for a
period to be fixed.

(c) Use of German labor.

3. For the working out on the above principles of a detailed
plan for exaction of reparation from Germany an Allied
reparation commission will be set up in Moscow.  It will consist
of three representatives - one from the Union of Soviet
Socialist Republics, one from the United Kingdom and one from
the United States of America.

4. With regard to the fixing of the total sum of the reparation
as well as the distribution of it among the countries which
suffered from the German aggression, the Soviet and American
delegations agreed as follows:

"The Moscow reparation commission should take in its initial
studies as a basis for discussion the suggestion of the Soviet
Government that the total sum of the reparation in accordance
with the points (a) and (b) of the Paragraph 2 should be 22
billion dollars and that 50 per cent should go to the Union of
Soviet Socialist Republics."

The British delegation was of the opinion that, pending
consideration of the reparation question by the Moscow
reparation commission, no figures of reparation should be
mentioned.

The above Soviet-American proposal has been passed to the Moscow
reparation commission as one of the proposals to be considered
by the commission.

VI. MAJOR WAR CRIMINALS

The conference agreed that the question of the major war
criminals should be the subject of inquiry by the three Foreign
Secretaries for report in due course after the close of the
conference.

[Begin second section published Feb. 13, 1945.]

VII. POLAND

The following declaration on Poland was agreed by the
conference:

"A new situation has been created in Poland as a result of her
complete liberation by the Red Army.  This calls for the
establishment of a Polish Provisional Government which can be
more broadly based than was possible before the recent
liberation of the western part of Poland.  The Provisional
Government which is now functioning in Poland should therefore
be reorganized on a broader democratic basis with the inclusion
of democratic leaders from Poland itself and from Poles abroad.
This new Government should then be called the Polish Provisional
Government of National Unity.

"M. Molotov, Mr. Harriman and Sir A. Clark Kerr are authorized
as a commission to consult in the first instance in Moscow with
members of the present Provisional Government and with other
Polish democratic leaders from within Poland and from abroad,
with a view to the reorganization of the present Government
along the above lines.  This Polish Provisional Government of
National Unity shall be pledged to the holding of free and
unfettered elections as soon as possible on the basis of
universal suffrage and secret ballot.  In these elections all
democratic and anti-Nazi parties shall have the right to take
part and to put forward candidates.

"When a Polish Provisional of Government National Unity has been
properly formed in conformity with the above, the Government of
the U.S.S.R., which now maintains diplomatic relations with the
present Provisional Government of Poland, and the Government of
the United Kingdom and the Government of the United States of
America will establish diplomatic relations with the new Polish
Provisional Government National Unity, and will exchange
Ambassadors by whose reports the respective Governments will be
kept informed about the situation in Poland.

"The three heads of Government consider that the eastern
frontier of Poland should follow the Curzon Line with
digressions from it in some regions of five to eight kilometers
in favor of Poland.  They recognize that Poland must receive
substantial accessions in territory in the north and west.  They
feel that the opinion of the new Polish Provisional Government
of National Unity should be sought in due course of the extent
of these accessions and that the final delimitation of the
western frontier of Poland should thereafter await the peace
conference."

VIII. YOGOSLAVIA

It was agreed to recommend to Marshal Tito and to Dr. Ivan
Subasitch:

(a) That the Tito-Subasitch agreement should immediately be put
into effect and a new government formed on the basis of the
agreement.

(b) That as soon as the new Government has been formed it should
declare:

(I) That the Anti-Fascist Assembly of the National Liberation
(AVNOJ) will be extended to include members of the last Yugoslav
Skupstina who have not compromised themselves by collaboration
with the enemy, thus forming a body to be known as a temporary
Parliament and

(II) That legislative acts passed by the Anti-Fascist Assembly
of the National Liberation (AVNOJ)  will be subject to
subsequent ratification by a Constituent Assembly; and that this
statement should be published in the communiqui of the
conference.

[End second section published Feb. 13, 1945.]

IX. ITALO-YOGOSLAV FRONTIER - ITALO-ASUTRIAN FRONTIER

Notes on these subjects were put in by the British delegation
and the American and Soviet delegations agreed to consider them
and give their views later.

X. YUGOSLAV-BULGARIAN RELATIONS

There was an exchange of views between the Foreign Secretaries
on the question of the desirability of a Yugoslav-Bulgarian pact
of alliance.  The question at issue was whether a state still
under an armistice regime could be allowed to enter into a
treaty with another state.  Mr. Eden suggested that the
Bulgarian and Yugoslav Governments should be informed that this
could not be approved.  Mr. Stettinius suggested that the
British and American Ambassadors should discuss the matter
further with Mr. Molotov in Moscow.  Mr. Molotov agreed with the
proposal of Mr. Stettinius.

XI. SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE

The British delegation put in notes for the consideration of
their colleagues on the following subjects:

(a) The Control Commission in Bulgaria.

(b) Greek claims upon Bulgaria, more particularly with reference
to reparations.

(c) Oil equipment in Rumania.

XII. IRAN

Mr. Eden, Mr. Stettinius and Mr. Molotov exchanged views on the
situation in Iran.  It was agreed that this matter should be
pursued through the diplomatic channel.

[Begin third section published Feb. 13, 1945.]

XIII. MEETINGS OF THE THREE FOREIGN SECRETARIES

The conference agreed that permanent machinery should be set up
for consultation between the three Foreign Secretaries; they
should meet as often as necessary, probably about every three or
four months.

These meetings will be held in rotation in the three capitals,
the first meeting being held in London.

[End third section published Feb. 13, 1945.]

XIV. THE MONTREAUX CONVENTION AND THE STRAITS

It was agreed that at the next meeting of the three Foreign
Secretaries to be held in London, they should consider proposals
which it was understood the Soviet Government would put forward
in relation to the Montreaux Convention, and report to their
Governments.  The Turkish Government should be informed at the
appropriate moment.

The forgoing protocol was approved and signed by the three
Foreign Secretaries at the Crimean Conference Feb. 11, 1945.

E. R. Stettinius Jr.
M. Molotov
Anthony Eden

AGREEMENT REGARDING JAPAN

The leaders of the three great powers - the Soviet Union, the
United States of America and Great Britain - have agreed that in
two or three months after Germany has surrendered and the war in
Europe is terminated, the Soviet Union shall enter into war
against Japan on the side of the Allies on condition that:

1. The status quo in Outer Mongolia (the Mongolian People's
Republic) shall be preserved.

2. The former rights of Russia violated by the treacherous
attack of Japan in 1904 shall be restored, viz.:

(a) The southern part of Sakhalin as well as the islands
adjacent to it shall be returned  to the Soviet Union;

(b) The commercial port of Dairen shall be internationalized,
the pre-eminent interests of the Soviet Union in this port being
safeguarded, and the lease of Port Arthur as a naval base of the
U.S.S.R. restored;

(c) The Chinese-Eastern Railroad and the South Manchurian
Railroad, which provide an outlet to Dairen, shall be jointly
operated by the establishment of a joint Soviet-Chinese company,
it being understood that the pre-eminent interests of the Soviet
Union shall be safeguarded and that China shall retain
sovereignty in Manchuria;

3. The Kurile Islands shall be handed over to the Soviet Union.

It is understood that the agreement concerning Outer Mongolia
and the ports and railroads referred to above will require
concurrence of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek.  The President
will take measures in order to maintain this concurrence on
advice from Marshal Stalin.

The heads of the three great powers have agreed that these
claims of the Soviet Union shall be unquestionably fulfilled
after Japan has been defeated.

For its part, the Soviet Union expresses it readiness to
conclude with the National Government of China a pact of
friendship and alliance between the U.S.S.R. and China in order
to render assistance to China with its armed forces for the
purpose of liberating China from the Japanese yoke.

Joseph Stalin
Franklin d. Roosevelt
Winston S. Churchill

February 11, 1945.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 2 Apr 1993 to 3 Apr 1993
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 6 messages totalling 373 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Introduction to WWII-L
  2. New List opening.
  3. INF: request
  4. 88mm
  5. Yugoslav weapons
  6. Schlieffen Plan...(WWI)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Apr 1993 13:51:29 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Introduction to WWII-L

Welcome to WWII-L, a list dedicated to the discussion of the
greatest cataclysm of the Twentieth century (and, hopefully,
the last.)

I'm Larry W. Jewell and I'll be listowner until further
notice.  I can be reached at the addresses listed at the end
of this notice.

WWII-L will be self-moderated.  This means that each of you
will always try to remember that there is a human being on the
other end of the net, and the "Golden Rule" is rule number
one!

Our subject is HUGE and not everyone will be interested in
everything that moves over the mails.  To ease YOUR burden of
sorting the items you wish to read I offer the following
"flags".  They will go FIRST on the Subject: line.
(This section will be enforced when traffic get heavy, otherwise
members may use their discretion on the matter.)

SCI (for discussion of science and technology, may overlap
     with WEAP)
WEAP ( for talk of weapons, useage of weapons, and "My favorite
       weapon.")
POL (Political discussions, such as the effects of the Yalta
     Conference)
TAC (Tactical and Strategic discussions, "Island hopping vs.
     Single axis")
REF (References, review, where-to-buy, etc.)
INF (Tables of Organization, raw data, chronologies, etc.)
DOC (Reproductions of documents, Declarations of War,
     Speeches, Treaties, etc.)
GEN ("Let's find a category for this.")
TRV (For you trivia buffs. Try to stump everyone.)
VET (For reunions, VA announcements, Legislation affecting veterans)
HOME (For discussions of events on the "Homefront".  To help distinguish
      WHICH homefront we're talking about, use the following format:
      HOME:US for the U.S.A.,
      HOME:GER for Germany, and so forth.)
NOST (For Nostalgia items, such as trips to battle sites, historical
      recreations, museum information, where to buy badges and hats, etc.)
ADMIN (For listowner use, to post introduction and related material.
       Responses to article are welcome, but only listowner should originate
       an "ADMIN" article.)
WANT (For trading, suggestion on stores worth visting, etc.  Please offer to
      send more information via e-mail rather than posting an entire inventory.)
MEDIA (To review and report tv and other media "events".)
NEWS (For reproductions of newspaper, magazine, and other articles from the
      period under discussion.  Present day news items should be post under
      "MEDIA".

Some items will overlap, of course, but the main thrust of the item
should be clear.  Try not to ask so many questions in a single post
that the flags become inoperative.  Several short posts are preferable
to one long one, and are easier to answer and quote.  You should change
the flag in the subject line if the thread takes a new direction.  If
you reply to a posting which didn't have a flag, please insert the proper
flag.  (This can help categorize the subject for people who have to down-
load the mail via slow modem, one of the main reasons for having the flags
at all.)

You'll be hearing from me if you "forget" this system.  I also
solicit additions to this list.  Please keep this table handy
until you're comfortable with the flags.

Abbreviations are another subject that needs attention.  While many of us
will be comfortable with the most arcane and obscure acronyms and abbreviations
many of the readers of this list are here to learn more about the war and
will have trouble decyphering your articles if they are packed with "LAH",
"CinCUS", "StuG III", etc.  PLEASE expand these terms at least once in your
post.  Similarly, since this list is primarily in English, could we please
translate the "foreign" terms?  A long discussion on "Kido Butai" or "Wacht-
am-Rhine" without an explantion of the terms isn't polite if we exclude part
of the list because they have no clue as to the meaning of the terms.


Now we come to the REALLY hard part.

Some subjects have been beaten to death, and I KNOW that they'll
come up almost as soon as the group gets started.  To save us
all time, I'll ask that the following subjects be covered by
private mail (in other words, talk to someone who CARES.)  I'm
not judging the validity of anyone's arguments one way or the
other in these subject, just that I have yet to see one person
change their mind about them.


1. The Holocaust
2. Did Roosevelt Know About The Coming Attack on Pearl Harbor?
3. (Watch this space...)

One last item, STATE YOUR REFERENCES!  You're in tough company
here.  Some of the folks in this list are VERY sharp, and
you'll end up with egg on your face if you haven't done your
homework.

Enough talking.  I can be reached at the following addresses;

Larry W. Jewell                      jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu
Hawkins Grad Hse. Box 337            JEWELL@PURCCMACE
W. Lafayette, IN, 47906-3571


#Larry W. Jewell (ex-USN)  JEWELL@PURCCMACE   jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu     #
#"Sunday's horoscope is noteworthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly#
#unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." #
#--"Your Horoscope," L.A. Evening Herald Express, Saturday, Dec. 6, 1941.   #

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Apr 1993 13:55:22 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: New List opening.

This is an informational posting.  Discussion of the material is not
solicited for this list.  Send such to the address listed in the
posting.

Larry J
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:         Sat, 3 Apr 1993 19:43:01 -0600
From: RICHARD JENSEN <CAMPBELLD%APSU.BITNET@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject:      invitation to subscribe to HOLOCAUS

Sender: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
Reply-to: Holocaust List <HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET>
    HOLOCAUS has absorbed Ken McVay's HLIST and become part of
    the stable of lists at the University of Illinois, Chicago.
    The H-Net program, sponsored by the History department at
    UIC, has an ambitious plan for training historians across
    the country in more effective use of electronic
    communications. (Details of the H-Net plan are available on
    request from Richard Jensen, the director, at u08946@uicvm
    or u08946@uicvm.uic.edu)
         H-Net will keep all the material that made HLIST so
    useful, and will stress as well some new directions:
    1. The tone and target audience will continue to be scholarly.
    2. H-Net is now setting up an international board of editors to
       guide HOLOCAUS policy and to help stimulate contributions.
    3. The coverage of the list will include the Holocaust itself,
       and closely related topics like anti-semitism, and Jewish
       history in the 1930s and 1940s, as well as closely related
       themes in the history of WW2, Germany, and international
       diplomacy.
    4. We are especially interested in reaching college teachers of
       history who already have, or plan to teach courses on the
       Holocaust.  In 1991-92, there were 265 college faculty in
       the US and Canada teaching courses on the Holocaust (154 in
       History departments, 67 in Religion, and 46 in Literature.)
       A much larger number of professors teach units on the
       Holocaust in courses on Jewish history (taught by 273
       faculty) and World War II (taught by 373), not to mention
       many other possible courses.  Most of these professors own
       PCs, but do not use them for email.  We hope our list will
       be one inducement to go on line.  HOLOCAUS will therefore
       actively solicit syllabi, reading lists, termpaper guides,
       ideas on films and slides, and tips and comments that will
       be of use to the teacher who wants to add a single lecture,
       or an entire course.
    5. We are hoping to hire a U of Illinois graduate student to
       moderate the list.  The moderator will solicit postings (by
       email, phone and even by US mail), will assist people in
       subscribing and setting up options, will handle routine
       inquiries, and will consolidate some postings so that
       subscribers do not have their mailboxes flooded by scores of
       short messages. (Many computer center have strict limits on
       mail flows, and we do not want to wear out our welcome.) The
       moderator will also solicit and post newsletter type
       information (calls for conferences, for example, or listings
       of sessions at conventions.) It may prove feasible to
       commission book and article reviews, and to post book
       announcements from publishers.  Anyone with suggestions
       about what HOLOCAUS can and might do is invited to send in
       the ideas.
    6. H-Net sees moderated lists as a new mode of scholarly
       communication; they have enormous potential for putting in
       touch historians from across the world.  Our first list on
       urban history, H-URBAN@UICVM, recently started up with Wendy
       Plotkin the moderator.  H-WOMEN is in the works, with
       discussions underway about other possibilities like Ethnic,
       Labor, and US South.  It is an honor to be able to carry
       HOLOCAUS and continue the fine tradition Ken McVay began.
       Richard Jensen, director of H-Net  u08946@uicvm

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Apr 1993 15:35:23 EDT
From:    Sam Fletcher <ZI907C@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject: INF: request

Hi, all:
     Does anyone know of a source or anonymous FTP site that would carry
labor statistics for the Third Reich?  I am interested in the composition
of the judiciary before and after 1933.  I'm writing a paper for German
History based on the book _Hitler's Justice: the Courts of the Third Reich_
by Ingo Mueller.  I am looking to show that although the face of the courts
changed with the passage of such laws as the Civil Service Restoration Act
of April 7, 1933, the "soul" of the court remained unchanged.  In essence,
I would like to know how many jurists were fired in comparison to those hired.
I've been everywhere including the American Inst. for Contemporary German
Studies as well as the German Historical Institute and I've come up empty.
I was hoping the list could spare me a trip to the Library of Congress (which
is accesible to me if anyone needs info.)

Sam Fletcher
zi907c@gwuvm

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Apr 1993 18:09:43 +0100
From:    bsmart@VERDIX.COM
Subject: Re: 88mm

> >
> > > > Larry (Battleships forever!) J
> > >
> > > Arnaud (insecticide everywhere !)
> > >
> > >
> > > ...who, amazed, recently saw a Serb truck towing a ... 88mm German Pak gun !
> >
> > And you think you can just throw this in at the end of the message???
> > Details, we want the whole story
> >
> > Tim is already packing his bag and checkbook, he needs it for those
> > re-eanctments!
> >
> > Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)
> >
>
> I too wish I had more details...I saw it on French TV, a truck in a convoy
> towing a strange Pak gun. It immediately attracted my attention because
> it really didn't like a D-30 or any soviet gun (and who else builds
> AT guns today ?). It looked very German. I checked in a book about
> the 1944 Panzerdivisions (which has pictures of everything).
> I am indeed positive that it was a late 88 Pak (not the Flak model).
> The commentator said it was a serb column.
> Now Tim, Bob, get there and buy it ! The dinar's rate is plummeting
> (25,000 dinars = $20), and a Bosniac shell may end its life tomorrow :-)
>
> Arnaud

I remember hearing and reading that Yugoslavia stashed away everything they could
gather up after WW2. and in the 50's & 60's while they played the west against the east
they stockpiled everything both sides would ship them. The idea was to have so many
arms stashed in so many places that no one would even think about invading them and
getting bogged down like the Germans did. I've seen recent videos of T34/85s, some
towed guns that looked like soviet 76s, and what appeared to be a homebrew towed gun on
an American 105mm M101 carriage ( Did the towed 3" AT gun use the same carriage as the
105 Howitzer ( like the 155 Gun & the 8" How used the same carriage)?  I think I saw
pictures of PZKW IV in Yugo service in the late 60's but couldn't swear to it.
In small arms Ive seen a lot of what look like MG42s in TV footage.

Arnaud I hope you get this and find a way to get back on the net soon. You've been
missed.

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Apr 1993 21:35:48 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Yugoslav weapons

>
>I remember hearing and reading that Yugoslavia stashed away everything they
>could gather up after WW2. and in the 50's & 60's while they played the west
>against the east they stockpiled everything both sides would ship them. The
>idea was to have so many arms stashed in so many places that no one would
>even think about invading them and getting bogged down like the Germans did.
...

 I've read that the Yugoslavs sold Me-109's to the Israelis in 1948.  They
took them to Israel in Gooney Birds, one plane for the fuselage and one for
the wings.  A Connie could carry an entire fighter in one trip.

 I wonder what Adolph would have thought if he had known one of his best
fighters would sport the Star of David fifteen years after the establishment
of the 1000 year Reich?

> Arnaud I hope you get this and find a way to get back on the net soon.
>You've been missed.

Oui! find a route back to our table soon!

> Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)
>
Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 4 Apr 1993 21:39:12 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Schlieffen Plan...(WWI)

Someone asked for information on the Schlieffen Plan (World War One, but
interesting none the less :-).
Being a rookie on that war, I yelled for help.  Here's the reply.

Larry J

Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1993 17:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael J. McCarthy" <YEA003@muvms3.mu.wvnet.edu>
Subject: Schlieffen Plan

Larry,

     I finally had a chance to look for sources on the Schlieffen
Plan.  I consulted a trusted reference work, Woodward and Maddox,
_America and World War I:  A Select Annotated Bibliography of
English Language Sources_.  As the title suggests, it emphasizes
the American role, but it lists many general sources as well.  I
would highly recommend it for any WWI researcher.

     Here is what I found on general German strategy and tactics
for the war:

Hunt, Barry and Adrian Preston, eds.  _War Aims and Strategic
     Policy in the Great War, 1914-1918_.  London:  Croom Helm,
     1977.

     Most of these essays were presented at the Third Annual
     Military Symposium at the Royal Military College of Canada
     in 1976.  Contributors include Edward Coffman and Fritz
     Fischer.

Kennedy, Paul, ed.  _The War Plans of the Great Powers, 1880-
     1914_.  London:  Allen and Unwin, 1979.

Lucas, Pascal Marie Henri.  _The Evolution of Tactical Ideas in
     France and Germany During the War of 1914-1918_.  Fort
     Leavenworth, Kansas:  General Service Schools, n.d.

     Written by a Lt. Col. in the French Army and published in
     Paris in 1925, this study was translated by P.V. Kieffer.  A
     copy is housed at the Military History Institute at Carlisle
     Barracks, PA.

Lupfer, Timothy T.  _The Dynamics of Doctrine:  The Changes in
     Germany Tactical Doctrine During the First World War_.
     Washington, DC:  Gov't Printing Office, 1981.

Ritter, Gerhard, ed.  _The Schlieffen Plan:  Critique of a Myth_.
     London:  Oswald Wolff, 1958.

     The entire text of the plan and its various addenda and maps
     are included in this work.  the editor offers astute
     commentary which argues that political considerations were
     either ignored or subordinate to military expediency in the
     evolution of the plan.

Wynne, Captain C.C.  _If Germany Attacks:  The Battle in Depth in
     the West_.  London:  Faber & Faber, Ltd, 1940 [reprinted by
     Greenwood Press in 1976].

     Again, sorry for the delay, but I hope these sources are
useful.
^Z

-------------
Mike McCarthy                   "Lafayette, we are here!"
Marshall Univ. History Dept.            -Col. C.E. Stanton, 4 July 1917, Paris
Huntington, WV 25755, USA       "We've paid off that old fart Lafayette.  What
YEA003@Marshall.WVNET.EDU       frog son-of-a-bitch do we owe now?"
YEA003@MARSHALL                         -U.S. Infantryman after Battle of
                                         Soissons, 28 May 1918

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 3 Apr 1993 to 4 Apr 1993
***********************************************

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Status: O

There are 19 messages totalling 819 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Yugoslav weapons (3)
  2. 88mm
  3. Yugoslav weapoWEAP:Yugoslav weapons
  4. Mosquitoes
  5. WEAP: Jewish 109's, etc. (was: WEAP: Yugoslav weapons) (3)
  6. WEAP in Yugo-land (3)
  7. WEAP:  RE: Israeli Messerschmitts
  8. bye
  9. <No subject given>
 10. Hitler's Art Thefts-(The Jackdaw of Linz)
 11. german labor stats
 12. UPdated INDEX of byrd.mu.wvnet.edu
 13. bonjour

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 10:50:02 WETDST
From:    Arnaud Bouis <bouis@CC.EC-LYON.FR>
Subject: Re: Yugoslav weapons

>
> >
> >I remember hearing and reading that Yugoslavia stashed away everything they
> >could gather up after WW2. and in the 50's & 60's while they played the west
> >against the east they stockpiled everything both sides would ship them. The
> >idea was to have so many arms stashed in so many places that no one would
> >even think about invading them and getting bogged down like the Germans did.
> ...

Yes, a guerilla policy which several countries have rejected as
the risk of keeping huge dumps of arms ready to arm civilians was
deemed too great in case of civil troubles.
And indeed oday Yugoslavia is showing us the dire consequences of
that policy. "Irregular" wars are very dirty wars.


>  I've read that the Yugoslavs sold Me-109's to the Israelis in 1948.  They
> took them to Israel in Gooney Birds, one plane for the fuselage and one for
> the wings.  A Connie could carry an entire fighter in one trip.
>  I wonder what Adolph would have thought if he had known one of his best
> fighters would sport the Star of David fifteen years after the establishment
> of the 1000 year Reich?
>
> > Arnaud I hope you get this and find a way to get back on the net soon.
> >You've been missed.
>
> Oui! find a route back to our table soon!
>
> > Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)
> >
> Larry J
>

Thank you a lot, I've been missing the list and its members as well.
But I am finishing my army time, and shall work soon (anyone's got room
for a computer engineer in the depressed US employment market ?).
The school board recently decided to delete all the ex-students accounts,
which includes mine, so this is the last day I am on this thing.
        The French army and its utter stupidity did not disgust me
with WWII study however, and I keep being an involved military history
enthusiast and wargamer.


Arnaud Bouis

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 06:11:42 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <hb9388@USMA6.USMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: 88mm

Bob Smart,

Ref:  88mm PAK seen on TV being used by Serbian troops.

It's very interesting to see just how much WWII stuff the Yugos
did stash away and are continuing to use.  About 3 months ago
Jane's Defense Weekly had a photo of an M36 Jackson US Tank Destroyer
painted in Croatian colors.  I've also seen many MG42's, MP40's,
and Kar 98k rifles.  Keep your eyes open, who knows what else you
will see.

Trivia note:  When Sam Peckinpah filmed "The Cross of Iron" (with
James Coburn, James Mason, Maximilian Schell), he filmed it in
Yugoslavia because they still had a lot of working WWII Russian
and German equipment.

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 12:48:14 WETDST
From:    Arnaud Bouis <bouis@CC.EC-LYON.FR>
Subject: Re: Yugoslav weapoWEAP:Yugoslav weapons

>
> >
> >I remember hearing and reading that Yugoslavia stashed away everything they
> >could gather up after WW2. and in the 50's & 60's while they played the west
> >against the east they stockpiled everything both sides would ship them. The
> >idea was to have so many arms stashed in so many places that no one would
> >even think about invading them and getting bogged down like the Germans did.
> ...
>
>  I've read that the Yugoslavs sold Me-109's to the Israelis in 1948.  They
> took them to Israel in Gooney Birds, one plane for the fuselage and one for
> the wings.  A Connie could carry an entire fighter in one trip.
>
>  I wonder what Adolph would have thought if he had known one of his best
> fighters would sport the Star of David fifteen years after the establishment
> of the 1000 year Reich?


And Britain sold (gave ?) Spitfires to the Egyptians. Which gave an interesting
situation in the middle-east skies in 1948, when an Egyptian strike erroneously
hit a British airfield, killing Britons. The RAF retaliated and British
Tempests shot scores of (outdated Mk IX) Spits ! Tempest vs Spits and
Jewish Me109's...bring me my drugs !
Also of note: Kurt tank, the Focke-Wulf designer, worked for the Egyptians.

There's an excellent book about all this written by a British adventurer
who left the RAF for the IAF (he was a NON-jew). He flew those clandestine
cargo missions to Israel first, then as a fighter pilot.
. Ahh...mindholes ! what's the name ?


Arnaud.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 09:24:26 +0100
From:    bsmart@VERDIX.COM
Subject: Re: Yugoslav weapons

> >
> >I remember hearing and reading that Yugoslavia stashed away everything they
> >could gather up after WW2. and in the 50's & 60's while they played the west
> >against the east they stockpiled everything both sides would ship them. The
> >idea was to have so many arms stashed in so many places that no one would
> >even think about invading them and getting bogged down like the Germans did.
> ...
>
>  I've read that the Yugoslavs sold Me-109's to the Israelis in 1948.  They
> took them to Israel in Gooney Birds, one plane for the fuselage and one for
> the wings.  A Connie could carry an entire fighter in one trip.

If I remember the old profile series on the ME-109 correctly the ones the
Israelis got were Jumo engined ME's from Czechoslovakia ( Built by Avia?)
The Jumo engine had a lot of torque and was not really suited for the airframe.

I also remember seeing a few photos and some reports of the Syrians using
Pzkw IVs as 'pillboxes' during the '67 war.

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 09:54:00 EST
From:    "W.C. (RUSTY) DIVENS" <ERCOUPE@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mosquitoes

If you are into scenes that will break your heart....

Near the end of the Academy Award winning BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES there
is a scene where Dana Andrews is in a WWII wrecking yard where B-17's
and P-39's are being broken apart.  Hard to watch.

Many B-17's met their end at what is now Walnut Ridge Airport in
northeast Arkansas (ARG).  The FBO there used to have pictures on
the wall of the birds parked end-to-end right after WWII.

Then there are the stories of aircraft still in crates being
buried on Guam.

N93774

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 09:46:05 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <rjg@UMNSTAT.STAT.UMN.EDU>
Subject: WEAP: Jewish 109's, etc. (was: WEAP: Yugoslav weapons)

> >  I've read that the Yugoslavs sold Me-109's to the Israelis in 1948.  They
> > took them to Israel in Gooney Birds, one plane for the fuselage and one for
> > the wings.  A Connie could carry an entire fighter in one trip.
> >
> >  I wonder what Adolph would have thought if he had known one of his best
> > fighters would sport the Star of David fifteen years after the establishment
> > of the 1000 year Reich?
>
>
> And Britain sold (gave ?) Spitfires to the Egyptians. Which gave an interesting
> situation in the middle-east skies in 1948, when an Egyptian strike erroneously
> hit a British airfield, killing Britons. The RAF retaliated and British
> Tempests shot scores of (outdated Mk IX) Spits ! Tempest vs Spits and
> Jewish Me109's...bring me my drugs !

And the first fully operational U.S. jet squadron was equipped with
Me-262's.

The immediate post-war years were a time of complete confusion.  :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
rjg@stat.umn.edu                                       Confederate Air Force
  You know you've made a gear-up landing when it takes full power to taxi.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 11:21:15 +0100
From:    bsmart@VERDIX.COM
Subject: Re: Yugoslav weapons

>
> Thank you a lot, I've been missing the list and its members as well.
> But I am finishing my army time, and shall work soon (anyone's got room
> for a computer engineer in the depressed US employment market ?).
> The school board recently decided to delete all the ex-students accounts,
> which includes mine, so this is the last day I am on this thing.
>         The French army and its utter stupidity did not disgust me
> with WWII study however, and I keep being an involved military history
> enthusiast and wargamer.
>
>
> Arnaud Bouis

Arnaud,

What does your resume look like?  Is there any Ada in it? I know we are setting
up a European Support Office in France.  We currently have a sales office there.
I know they are setting up network access now ( Through INRIA?) I dn't know
what the status is on hiring for the 'techies' but would be glad to try and
help.

Stay in touch

-- Bob Smart               Net - bsmart@verdix.com
   Verdix Corp.            Fax - (703) 318-9304
   205 Van Buren           Phone - (703) 318-5808
   Herndon, Va 22070

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 10:24:49 CDT
From:    Lee Short <lees@SNOOPY.ASF.COM>
Subject: WEAP: Jewish 109's, etc. (was: WEAP: Yugoslav weapons)

>And the first fully operational U.S. jet squadron was equipped with
>Me-262's.

Really?  When?  Didn't the P-80 see service *just* after the war
finished?

And what did they do for spare parts?  Just run off existing stocks?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Lee

Lee Short   lees@asf.com         Attlee reminds me of nothing so much as
Software Janitor                 a recently dead fish, before it has had
Hughes Training, Inc.            time to stiffen.
Minneapolis, MN                    --  George Orwell

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 11:25:52 EDT
From:    IQM233@URIACC.URI.EDU
Subject: Re: WEAP in Yugo-land

    I have seen pictures of Yugos with M1 Thompsons, M-2 .50 cal. HMG's,
MP-40's, a Sherman tank, a recovery vehicle on a Sherman type chassis,
and a Sten gun.
    One of thge standard Yugo issue GPMG's was (is?) the M-52, basically an
MG-42 with a rate reducing bolt and an anti-bounce device to prevent ignition w
ith the bolt out of battery, which makes them blow up(this has happened to many
MG-34 and 42 owners in the USA) It is in 8mm Mauser, about an 850 rpm cyclic ra
te. These are probably the MG-42's on the evening news.

   As an aside, has anyone ever seen a photo of the OT-810? It is or was a
Czechoslavakian half track that looked very much like the German WWII sdkfz
151 type (I may be a little off on the German designation) I don't know if they
 have any left, or if they were left over German WWII stuff, I wonder if they h
ave any for sale?????:-)

              Tim Jackson

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 10:28:54 -0400
From:    SPARKS@CAER.UKY.EDU
Subject: WEAP:  RE: Israeli Messerschmitts

After WWII, the Czech company Avia continued to build Bf 109s, which
they designated as the Avia S-199.  After they had built about 20
aircraft, the warehouse containing the Daimler Benz DB605 engines
burnt to the ground.  Avia turned to the Jumo 211 engine, producing
an aircraft that the Czech air force pilots quickly dubbed the "Mule",
due to its recalcitrant handling qualities.  Some of these aircraft
were passed on to the Israelis in 1948, who were similarly unimpressed,
removing them from service when other types became available.

I seem to recall reading of Israeli B-17s (I think they had three)
being escorted by Willi's prodigy.


On a related subject....

When Germany decided to come to Italy's aid in Greece, they planned
to attack through Yugoslavia.  When the pro-Nazi Yugoslav government
was overthrown, Hitler ordered the destruction of that country as
well.  The few Yugoslav fighters to rise to meet the 1200 or so
Luftwaffe aircraft were Bf 109E-3s, some 75 of which had been sold
to Yugoslavia, who had paid for them with iron, chromium, and
manganese ores, if I remember correctly.

Both of these incidents are summarized (from memory) from the book
"The Messerschmitt 109 at War", by Armand van Ishoven.

Dennis E. Sparks
SPARKS@CAER.UKY.EDU
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 10:58:54 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <rjg@UMNSTAT.STAT.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Jewish 109's, etc. (was: WEAP: Yugoslav weapons)

> >And the first fully operational U.S. jet squadron was equipped with
> >Me-262's.
>
> Really?  When?  Didn't the P-80 see service *just* after the war
> finished?

1945.  The P-80 was still "in the works."

> And what did they do for spare parts?  Just run off existing stocks?

Yup.  :-)

> Enquiring minds want to know.

Actually, it's very strange to see pictures of Me-262's lined up with
the German insignia obviously painted out in haste with a star and bar
placed over it.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
rjg@stat.umn.edu                                       Confederate Air Force
  You know you've made a gear-up landing when it takes full power to taxi.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 12:42:16 EDT
From:    wbt@CBEMF.ATT.COM
Subject: Re: WEAP in Yugo-land

>    As an aside, has anyone ever seen a photo of the OT-810? It is or was a
> Czechoslavakian half track that looked very much like the German WWII sdkfz
>151 type (I may be a little off on the German designation)

The 1981 Jane's Armored Vehicles of the World had a photo of it.  I don't
remember that exact designation; OT-something, to be sure.  The one
photographed was fitted with a recoilless rifle firing over the cab, and
ammunition storage for same.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker             AT&T Network Systems       attmail!att!cbemf!wbt
Quality Engineer            Columbus, Ohio              wbt@cbemf.att.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 19:48:19 WETDST
From:    Arnaud Bouis <bouis@CC.EC-LYON.FR>
Subject: bye

Bye all,
have good, unending talks on WWII-L.


Cheers,
Arnaud.

(I'm gone)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 13:53:15 EST
From:    HILAYTO@RUBY.INDSTATE.EDU
Subject: <No subject given>

WWII-L sub new Don Layton

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 18:44:00 GMT
From:    GHTPHFT@BRUFF.BITNET
Subject: Hitler's Art Thefts-(The Jackdaw of Linz)

         As a student of History specialized in the Nazi-Party ideology and
esthetic, I beg your assistance to improve my studies. I am looking for the
following documents or informations :
  - Archives concerning the theft of works of art that the German National
Socialist Party had done.
  - Goering comndenation process, by Nuremberg Court : indictments     and
final sentence.
  - List of the stolen pieces of art, with description of those that  were
recuperated and those that are disappeared their authors and their owners.
  - Military Technicians and expert conclusions; Where          can be the
disappeared works of art ?
  - Archives of the Secret Allied Army about illegal activities of the SS
  - Record presented by the Allied Army about the pieces of art, at the end
of the war
  - The remaining SS archives
  - The German diplomatic correspondency about the pieces of art
  - The official "dossier" from Nuremberg Court ( Conclusions )
                          Thanks,
                            Paulo H.F. Todaro
                Fluminense Federal University / BRAZIL

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 17:56:32 EST
From:    BFAA000 <BFAA@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: german labor stats

To say the least German labour stats are not easy to come by. In my expe
rience (I wrote my Master's thesis on the German Supreme Court in the ea
rly part of the Third Reich) you have very few published works to work
with.
  But try the following: the official Statische Jahrbuch, and the
Zentralblatt fuer das Deutsche Reich.
  Published secondary works which may be of assistance include Jane
Caplan's "Government without administration. State and Civil Service in
Weimar and Nazi germany", Lothar Gruchmann's "Justiz im Dritten Reich 19
33-1940", and Hubert Schorn's "Der Richter im Dritten Reich."
       Hope this is of some help,
         Ken Reynolds, Ph.D.2
          McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 14:57:00 -0400
From:    "Michael J. McCarthy" <YEA003@MUVMS3.MU.WVNET.EDU>
Subject: UPdated INDEX of byrd.mu.wvnet.edu

RECENT ARRIVALS:

        Many and continued thanks to Larry Jewell for his contributions to this
FTP site.  He has now been named Honorary Manager and Major Contributor.

1.      The Combat Area Casualties File database is located in the
        pub/history/military/vietnam/kia_mia subdirectory.  To facilitate
        downloading, the database has been divided by state or US territory.
        The filenames consist of the standard post office code with an
        extension of .asc.  For example:  wv.asc for West Virginia.  Foreign
        born soldiers are listed in the file other.asc.  See the 00_REAME file
        in the subdirectory for a key to the fields.

2.      The text of two letters to Ngo Dinh Diem, one from Eisenhower on
        11/15/54 and one from Kennedy on 1/1/62, are the in file
        diem_letters.txt in the pub/history/military/vietnam subdirectory.

3.      The Text of Johnson's address to Congress on 8/24/64 and of the
        resulting Tokin Gulf Resolution are in the tonkin_gulf.txt file in
        the pub/history/military/vietnam subdirectory.

4.      The text of the State Dept. White Paper on Vietnam (2/27/65) is in
        the file white_paper.txt in the pub/history/military/vietnam dir.

5.      A listing of the publications available on WWI from the Govt.
        Printing Office is in the file gpo_wwi.txt in the pub/history/
        military/wwi subdirectory.

6.      A listing of the publications available on WWII from the Govt.
        Printing Office is in the file gpo_wwii.txt in the pub/history/
        military/wwii subdirectory.

7.      The text of Roosevelt's "Four Freedoms" speech (1/6/41) is in the
        file fdr_4_freedoms.txt in the pub/history/military/wwii directory.

8.      The text of the Yalta Conference Agreement is in the file
        yalta_conf.txt in the pub/history/military/wwii directory.

        Below is the complete catalog of files under pub/history at
byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152).  If you have any questions or care to make
any contributions, please contact me or leave your submission (with an
explanation, if necessary) in the pub/history/submissions subdirectory.

-------------
Mike McCarthy
Marshall Univ. History Dept.
Huntington, WV 25755, USA
YEA003@Marshall.WVNET.Edu
YEA003@MARSHALL.BITNET

===========================ATTACHMENT=======================================

FILE INDEX FOR HISTORY FTP SITE:

BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU
129.71.32.152
pub/history

Managers:
Mike McCarthy, Marshall Univ. (YEA003@Marshall.WVNET.Edu)
Donna Spindel, Marshall Univ. (HST001@Marshall.WVNET.Edu)

Honorary Manager and Major Contributor:
Larry Jewell (jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu)


UPDATE: 5 April 1993

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history:
INDEX               Index of files and directories on
                    byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (this file)
diplomatic          Subdir: diplomatic history
ethnic              Subdir: ethnicity history
general             Subdir: history as a discipline & profession
instruction         Subdir: teaching history (syllabi, exams,
                    etc)
internet            Subdir: use of internet in research
marshall            Subdir: files specific to Marshall Univ.
                    History Dept.
military            Subdir: military history
political           Subdir: political / government
submissions         Subdir: submissions from anonymous ftp users
                    (write access to all anonymous ftp)
utilities           Subdir: utility programs (pkunzip, uudecode,
                    cshow, etc.)
women               Subdir: women's history

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/diplomatic:
united_states       Subdir: US diplomatic history

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/diplomatic/united_states:
1921-1939           Subdir: Period 1921-1939 (interwar years)
greenville.txt      Text of Treaty of Greenville (1795)
monroe-doctrine.txt Text of Monroe Doctrine
neutral_procl.txt   Text of Neutrality Proclamation (1793)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/diplomatic/united_states/1921-1939:
hemi_def.txt        Text of Dept. of State Bulletin on Hemisphere
                    Defense, 8/18/40
lend-lease.act      Text of Lend Lease Act (1941)
neutrality.act_37   Text of Neutrality Act (1937)
neutrality.act_39   Text of Neutrality Act (1939)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/ethnic:
african-american    Subdir: African-American history
native-american     Subdir: Native-American history

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/ethnic/african-american:
emanc_procl.txt     Text of Emancipation Proclamation (1862)

i-have-a-dream.txt  Test of King's "I Have a Dream" speech (1963)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/ethnic/native-american:
greenville.txt      Text of Treaty of Greenville (1795)
iroquois_const.txt  Text of Iroquois Constitution
iroquois_readme.txt Commentary to accompany Iroqouis Const.

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/general:
chair_newsletter    Subdir: issues of Dept. Chair Newsletter, M.
                    Galgano, ed.
dept_ranks.txt      US News detailed ranking of History Ph.D.
                    depts

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/general/chair_newsletter:
issue31.txt         Text of issue 31

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/instruction:
exams               Subdir: sample history exams
mu_hst500           Subdir: for use by Marshall's methods course
syllabi             Subdir: sample history course syllabi

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/instruction/exams:
us_survey2a.exm     US Survey II (Since 1877) exam (McCarthy)
us_survey2b.exm     US Survey II (Since 1877) exam (McCarthy)
us_survey2c.exm     US Survey II (Since 1877) exam (McCarthy)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/instruction/syllabi:
amer_rev.syl        American Revolution syllabus (Spindel)
marshall            Subdir: Current Marshall Univ. courses
us_legal.syl        United States Legal History syllabus
                    (Spindel)
us_survey1a.syl     US Survey I (To 1877) syllabus (Spindel)
us_survey2a.syl     US Survey II (Since 1877) syllabus (McCarthy)
us_survey2b.syl     US Survey II (Since 1877) syllabus (McCarthy)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/internet:
h-net.lists         BITNET lists of interest to historians
history.network     Charter of History Network
history_ftp         Subdir: FTP sites of interest to historians
inet.services       Catalog of special internet services (Archie,
                    Baseball scores, CARL, etc.)
internet.faq1       Frequently Asked Questions about internet
                    (#1)
internet.faq2       Frequently Asked Questions about internet
                    (#2)
libraries           Subdir: Addresses of TELNET accessible
                    libraries (US & UK)
listserv.database   Instructions for LISTSERVER database searches
whatis.internet     Description of internet and its uses

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/internet/history_ftp:
byrd.catalog        BYRD archive at Marshall Univ.
                    (byrd.mu.wvnet.edu; "cd pub/history")
cpet.catalog        Catalog of Projects in Electronic Text
                    archive at Georgetown Univ.
                    (guvax.georgetown.edu; "cd
                    CPET_PROJECTS_IN_ELECTRONIC_TEXT")
gheta.catalog       Groningen Historical Electronic Text Archive
                    at the Univ. of Groningen (tyr.let.rug.nl;
                    "cd pub/gheta")
malin.catalog       MALIN archive at Univ. Kansas
                    (kuhub.cc.ukans.edu; "cd dua9:[MALIN]")
ra.catalog          RA archive at Mississippi State University
                    (ra.msstate.edu; "cd pub/docs/history")
rutgers.catalog     US Army Air Force archive at Rutgers
                    (ftp.rutgers.edu; "cd pub/wwii/usaf")
sunsite.catalog     Sunsite at Univ. North Carolina
                    (sunsite.unc.edu; "cd pub/academic")

*DIRECOTORY OF pub/history/internet/libraries:
library.catalog     Catalog of US (and some international)
                    TELNET-accessible libraries
uk-libs.catalog     Catalog of TELNET-accessible libraries in the
                    United Kingdom

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military:
am_revolution       Subdir: American revolution
vietnam             Subdir: Vietnam War
wwi                 Subdir: World War I
wwii                Subdir: World War II

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/am_revolution:
decl_arms.txt       Text of Declaration of Arms (1775)
paris_1783.txt      Text of Treaty of Paris (1783)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/vietnam:
diem_letters.txt    Letters to Ngo Dinh Diem from Eisenhower
                    (11/15/54) and Kennedy (1/1/62)
kia_mia             Subdir: Combat Area Casualties File Database
pow_mia             Subdir: POW/MIA files
tonkin_gulf.txt     Text of LBJ's Speech to Congress and Tonkin
                    Gulf Resolution
vets_against.txt    Senate Testimony of John Kerry, Vietnam Vets
                    Against the War, 4/23/71
white_paper.txt     Text of Dept. of State White Paper on Vietnam
                    (2/27/65)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/vietnam/kia_mia:
00_README           Key to database fields
(other files)       The rest of the directory consists of the
                    files from the Combat Area Casualties File for
                    the Vietnam War.  The files are divided by
                    state or US territory to facilitate
                    downloading.  Standard post office
                    abbreviations are used for the filenames (ex:
                    wv.asc or oh.asc).

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/vietnam/pow_mia:
00_README           File index for POW/MIA files
(other files)       The rest of the directory consists of the
                    Senate POW/MIA report, divided into ASCII
                    files of less than 64k each.  Assemble each
                    file in the order they appear in this
                    directory for the entire report.  See
                    00_README for individual descriptions of each
                    file.

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/wwi:
aefplan.biblio      Bibliography on US military planning for WWI
                    (from AEFplan.txt, McCarthy)
aefplan.txt         MA Thesis on US military planning for WWI
                    (includes bibliography, McCarthy)
chronology.txt      Chronology of WWI (emphasis on US military
                    planning)
gpo_wwi.txt         Publications on WWI available from the US
                    Govt. Printing Office
wilson_c-in-c.art   Paper from Mid-America History Conference,
                    9/92, on Woodrow Wilson as Commander-in-Chief
                    (McCarthy)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/wwii:
atlantic_char.txt   Text of the Atlantic Charter
cairo_conf.txt      Text of Cairo Conference Agreement
casablanca_conf.txt Text of Casablanca Conference Agreement
fdr_4_freedoms.txt  Text of Roosevelt's "4 Freedoms" speech
                    (1/6/41)
fdr_8_dec.txt       Text of Roosevelt's speech on 12/8/41 ("date
                    which will live in infamy")
ger_surrender.txt   Text of German surrender
gpo_wwii.txt        Publications on WWII available from the US
                    Govt. Printing Office
jap_surrender.txt   Text of Japanese surrender
moscow_conf.txt     Text of Moscow Conference Agreement
north_africa.txt    Text of Roosevelt's Statement on North Africa
                    Policy on 11/17/42
peace_our_time.txt  Text of Chamberlain's speech on 9/30/39
                    ("peace in our time")
us_dec_germany.txt  Text of US declaration of war on Germany
us_dec_japan.txt    Text of US declaration of war on Japan
usaaf               Subdir: Chronologies of USAAF in WWII
yalta_conf.txt      Text of Yalta Conference Agreement

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf:
dec_42.txt          USAAF chronology for December 1942
feb_43.txt          USAAF chronology for February 1943
jan_43.txt          USAAF chronology for January 1943

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political:
france              Subdir: France
macedonia           Subdir: Republic of Macedonia
united_kingdom      Subdir: United Kingdom
united_states       Subdir: United States of America

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/france:
rights-of-man.txt   Text of Declaration of Rights of Man (1789)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/macedonia:
macedonia.const     Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united-kingdom:
magna-carta.txt     Text of Magna Carta

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states:
17th_century        Subdir: 17th Century
18th_century        Subdir: 18th Century
19th_century        Subdir: 19th Century
20th_century        Subdir: 20th Century
presidency          Subdir: The US Presidency (inaugrals, etc)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states/17th_century:
fund_ord_1639.txt   Text of Fundamental Orders (1639)
mayflower.txt       Text of Mayflower Compact (1620)
thanksgiving.txt    Text of First Thanksgiving Proclamation (1676)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states/18th_century:
annapolis.txt       Text of Annapolis Convention (1786)
art_confed.txt      Text of Articles of Confederation (1777, 1781)
bill_rights.txt     Text of Bill of Rights
charlotte.txt       Text of Charlotte Town Resolves (1775)
const_amends.txt
const_trans.txt     Text of Transmittal of Constitution (1787)
constitution.txt
cont_cong_res.txt   Text of Continental Congress Resolves (1777)
decl_indep.txt      Text of Declaration of Independence (1776)
nw_ord.txt          Text of Northwest Ordinance (1787)
va_decl_right.txt   Text of Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states/19th_century:
emanc_procl.txt     Text of Emancipation Proclamation (1862)
gettysburg.txt      Text of Gettysburg Address

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states/20th_century:
warpowers.act       Text of Warpowers Act (1973)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states/presidency:
angelou_poem.txt    Text of Maya Angelou's Poem at Clinton's
                    Inaugural, 1993
jefferson.inaug     Text of Jefferson's Inaugural Address
lincoln.inaug       Text of Lincoln's Inaugural Address
washington.farewell Text of Washington's Farewell Address

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/utilities:
cshw833.zip         BINARY: CShow (.GIF graphics file viewer,
                    DOS)
pkpak.exe           BINARY: File compressor (.ARC files, DOS)
pkunpak.exe         BINARY: File decompressor (.ARC files, DOS)
pkunzip.exe         BINARY: File decompressor (.ZIP files, DOS)
pkzip.exe           BINARY: File compressor (.ZIP files, DOS)
uudecode.exe        BINARY: File ASCII encoder (.UUE files, DOS)
uuencode.exe        BINARY: File ASCII decoder (.UUE files, DOS)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/women:
tx_womens_univ.txt  Information on Texas Women's University
                    Library Newsletter, DATA ENTRIES, available
                    electronically

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 18:49:40 CST
From:    "AD16000@NEMOMUS.BITNET. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: bonjour

An 88mm in Bosnia------DAMN THE TORPEDOES (OR LANDMINES), FULL SPEED
AHEAD FOR SREBENICA!!!!   I recently saw a photo of a T-34/85

BTW, do any of you think that if any peacemaking/keeping force is
created in Bosnia that the Germans could participate without a furor
within Bosnia?  Or could any peacemaking/keeping force be created in
Bosnia without creating a furor?  (Sorry this is a bit off the topic,
but it is an interesting question)

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Apr 1993 19:18:18 CST
From:    "AD16000@NEMOMUS.BITNET. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP in Yugo-land

Several of my friends a couple of years ago were looking at buying a
OT-810.  It looks like a Sdkz 251 except the beack is kinda wierd, and
the front end is longer.  Some reenactors up the the Minnesota quad
cities area have a 251--and it might be a OT-810.  They bring it out to
play at Ft McCoy events.  I think they had to re-engine the thing, but
I'm going on second hand info.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 4 Apr 1993 to 5 Apr 1993
***********************************************

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There are 7 messages totalling 622 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. USAAF 1 APR 43
  2. USAAF 2 APR 43 (2)
  3. USAAF 3 APR 43
  4. USAAF 4 APR 43
  5. USAAF 5 APR 43
  6. USAAF 6 APR 43

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 1993 18:45:58 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 1 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 1 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)
  Zeke, Mitsubishi A6M, Navy Type 0 Carrier Fighter

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS
  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force)
    A joint directive by Commander-in-Chief, Pacific and Commanding General
Western Defense Command orders preparations for Operation LANDGRAB, the
invasion of Attu Island.
  In the Aleutians, 16 B-24, 5 B-25, and 12 P-38 sorties are flown against
Kiska Island from Adak and Amchitka Islands. Targets include a ship in
Gertrude Cove, the North Head area, the Main Camp and the beach. AA fire
damages 2 bombers. Reconnaissance covers Kiska, Attu, Buldir, and Semichis
Islands.
    During April, the 73d Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 28th Composite
Group with B-25's transfers from Elmendorf Field, Anchorage, Alaska to
Umnak Island.

  CARIBBEAN (Sixth Air Force)
    The 3d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 6th Bombardment Group (Heavy) with
B-24's transfers from David, Panama to Talara, Peru.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Tenth Air Force)

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 16 B-25's bomb the Maymyo railroad sheds. Eight others hit
the railroad yards at Ywatsung.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force)
    In China, a Japanese force of 9 fighters is intercepted in the Lingling
area by P-40's. We claim 7 fighters shot down; we lose 1 P-40.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  The 83d and 84th Fighter Squadron, 78th Fighter Group with P-47C's
transfer from Goxhill, England to Duxford, England.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Tunisia, P-40's escort bomber missions. Medium and light bombers hit
parked airplanes and AA batteries at El Maou Airfield at Sfax.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Tunisia during the night of 31 Mar/1 Apr, RAF Wellingtons bomb the
Bizerte docks and Karouba Bay seaplane base. During the day, A-20's bomb La
Fauconnerie and El Djem Airfields. Fighters, carrying out reconnaissance
missions over wide areas of Tunisia, attack motor  transport, tanks, and
guns in the Sidi Mansour-Djebel Tebaga areas. British medium and light
bombers, and fighters hit gun positions N of Oued el Akarit and hit
the Sfax-El Maou Airfield.
    The 17th Bombardment Squadron (Light), 27th Bombardment Group (Light)
with A-20's transfers from Nouvion, Algeria to Ras El Ma, French Morocco.
    The 96th Fighter Squadron, 92d Fighter Group with P-38's transfers from
Telergma, Algeria to Berteaux, Algeria.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomons, 42 fighters (P-38's and Navy and Marine aircraft) are
sent over the Russell Islands to intercept Japanese aircraft trying to hit
US stockpiles on Guadalcanal, the naval base at Tulagi, and the incomplete
airstrips in the Russells. The air battle lasts for nearly 3 hours. Six US
fighters are lost, against claims of 20 Japanese airplanes destroyed.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17's attack a convoy off Kavieng, and
airfields at Gasmata and Cape Gloucester.
  In New Guinea, B-17's attack the town of Madang.
  Flights of from l to 3 medium or heavy bombers hit several other targets,
mostly isolated shipping and coastline targets in the Netherlands East
Indies and in the Solomon Sea.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 1993 18:46:01 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 2 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 3 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
B-26, Martin Marauder
C-47, Douglas Skytrain
C-53, Douglas Skytrooper
DB-7, Douglas Boston Mk III
F-4, Lockheed Lightning
F-5, Lockheed Lightning
LB-30, Consolidated Liberator
OA-10, Consolidated Catalina
Oscar, Nakajima Ki-43, Army Type 1 Fighter Hayabusa
P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
P-400, Bell Airacobra
Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine
Val, Aichi D3A, Navy Type 99 Carrier Bomber
Zeke, Mitsubishi A6M, Navy Type 0 Carrier Fighter

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)

CENTRAL PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Seventh Air Force)

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 17 B-25's, operating in 2 forces, bomb the Myitnge bridge,
scoreing hits on both approaches.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force)

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  HQ, 78th Fighter Group transfers from Goxhill, England to Duxford,
England.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Tunisia, B-25's the bomb Sfax-El Maou area during the night of 2/3
Apr. P-40's fly fighter-bomber missions N of Gabes.
    HQ, 12th Bombardment Group (Medium) and it's 434th Bombardment Squadron
(Medium) with B-25's transfer from El Assa, Libya to Medenine, Tunisia.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    Weather cancels Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF)
bomber operations.
    In Tunisia, Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF) fighters
strafe tanks and trucks at Kebira and Jabal Nasir Allah, and claim 14
aircraft downed in aerial combat over Djebel Berda. B-25's bomb the
airfield at Sainte-Marie du Zit. Western Desert Air Force (WDAF) light
bombers hit motor transport and gun ositions N of Oued el Akarit.
    HQ, 81st Fighter Group and its 93d Fighter Squadron with P-39's
transfer from Thelepte, Tunisia to Bone, Algeria to patrol the coast of
Africa and protect Allied shipping in the Mediterranean.


SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, A-20's hit Kitchen Creek while single B-24's bomb
Korindindi.
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17's pound shipping and the airfield at
Kavieng while single B-24's bomb Kavieng.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 1993 18:46:04 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 2 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 2 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  Liberator, Consolidated (RAF)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, 18 B-24's bomb Kiska targets including North Head. Six
B-25's, 16 P-38's, and 24 P-40's in 6 missions from Amchitka to Kiska, bomb
the Main Camp and submarine base areas. Four B-24's bomb the runway at
Attu. All aircraft, including 2 B-25's colliding in the air, return safely.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 8 B-25's hit the Thazi railroad junction.
    A detachment of the 25th Fighter Squadron, 51st Fighter Group with
P-40's which has been operating from Sadiya, India since Nov 42 transfers
to Jorhat, India.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Italy during the night of 1/2 Apr, RAF Liberators, under the
operational control of the IX Bomber Command, bomb the ferry terminal at
Messina and the airfield at Crotone. During the day, 2 B-24's on a special
mission bomb the ferry terminals at Messina and Villa San Giovanni;
27 B-24's sent against Naples find the target totally obscured by clouds; 9
bomb the area through overcast and 3 bomb Augusta and Crotone.
    In Sicily, 24 B-24's sent to attack Palermo abort because of heavy
clouds over the target.
    In Tunisia, P-40's fly 9 armored reconnaissance and 6 fighter-bomber
and escort missions.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Tunisia, B-25's and A-20's bomb the airfield at La Fauconnerie.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomons, P-38's and P-40's attack and set fire to a small cargo
vessel in Kokolope Bay.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, A-20's hit the Kitchen Creek area and the Labiabi-Duali
area.  Single B-24's attack Salamaua, Finschhafen and the bridge at Rempi.
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, single B-24's hit the airfields at Gasmata
and Cape Gloucester.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 1993 18:46:09 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 3 APR 43

PLEASE EXCUSE THE EARLIER SCREWUP!!

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 3 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 17 B-25's, operating in 2 forces, bomb the Myitnge bridge,
scoring hits on both approaches.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  HQ, 78th Fighter Group transfers from Goxhill, England to Duxford,
England.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Tunisia, B-25's the bomb Sfax-El Maou area during the night of 2/3
Apr. P-40's fly fighter-bomber missions N of Gabes.
    HQ, 12th Bombardment Group (Medium) and it's 434th Bombardment Squadron
(Medium) with B-25's transfer from El Assa, Libya to Medenine, Tunisia.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    Weather cancels Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF)
bomber operations.
    In Tunisia, Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF) fighters
strafe tanks and trucks at Kebira and Jabal Nasir Allah, and claim 14
aircraft downed in aerial combat over Djebel Berda. B-25's bomb the
airfield at Sainte-Marie du Zit. Western Desert Air Force (WDAF) light
bombers hit motor transport and gun positions N of Oued el Akarit.
    HQ, 81st Fighter Group and its 93d Fighter Squadron with P-39's
transfer from Thelepte, Tunisia to Bone, Algeria to patrol the coast of
Africa and protect Allied shipping in the Mediterranean.


SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, A-20's hit Kitchen Creek while single B-24's bomb
Korindindi.
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17's pound shipping and the airfield at
Kavieng while single B-24's bomb Kavieng.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 1993 18:46:12 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 4 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SUNDAY, 4 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  Liberator, Consolidated (RAF)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 8 B-25's hit the Maymyo engine sheds. Nine others bomb the
Pyawbwe railroad yards. Seven B-24's heavily damage the Thilawa oil
refinery.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  VIII Bomber Command Mission 49: 97 B-17's of the 1st Bombardment Wing are
dispatched against industrial installations in the Paris, France area
including the Renault armament works and motor works.  85 aircraft drop 251
tons of bombs on the target between 1414 and 1417 local and cause severe
damage.  We claim 47-13-6 Luftwaffe aircraft; we lose 4 B-17s and 16 others
are damaged by fierce fighter opposition. Casualties are 6 WIA and 39 MIA.
  The 13th Photographic Squadron (Light) flew 3 F-5 sorties in Belgium and
France; 1 F-5 is missing.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Italy, B-24's attack Naples, concentrating on the dock area.
    In Sicily, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, bomb Palermo.
    The 83d Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 12th Bombardment Group (Medium)
with B-25's transfers from El Assa, Libya to Medenine, Tunisia.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Italy, B-25's bomb small shipping at Carloforte on San Pietro
Island. B-17's hit Capodichino Airfield and the marshalling yards at
Naples.
    In Tunisia, P-38's dive-bomb a beached freighter off Cape Zebib. Other
P-38's escort the bombing raids. Northwest African Tactical Air Force
(NATAF) A-20's hit La Fauconnerie Airfield while B-25's hit El Djem and
Sainte-Marie du Zit airfields. Fighters accompany light and medium bombers
on attacks, and carry out numerous patrols, reconnaissance flights, and
fighter sweeps over the battle areas of Tunisia.
    The 16th Bombardment Squadron (Light), 27th Bombardment Group (Light)
with A-20's transfers from Nouvion, Algeria to Ras el Ma, French Morocco.
    The 111th Observation Squadron, 68th Observation Group with A-20's and
P-39's transfers from Oujda, French Morocco to Guercif, French Morocco.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  Vice Admiral Marc A. Mitscher assumes the position of Commander Air
Solomons (COMAIRSOL) which has operational control of all Royal New Zealand
Air Force (RNZAF), USAAF, USMC and USN aircraft in the South Pacific.
  A detachment of the 18th Photographic Squadron (Heavy), 4th Photographic
Group with B-25's begins operating from Espiritu Santo.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-25's and A-20's pound areas along the Huon Gulf, around
Kitchen Creek and the Heaths and Lane Plantations. Single B-17's bomb
Salamaua.
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17's bomb the town area and airfield at
Kavieng. Single B-17's bomb Cape Gloucester.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 1993 18:46:14 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 5 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
MONDAY, 5 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, reconnaissance covers all islands W of Kiska with
negative results. 16 B-24's and 6 B-25's bomb the Attu runway and Kiska's
Main Camp and runway. 4 P-38's fly top cover. Later, 3 B-25's, 16 P-4O's,
and 16 P-38's bomb Kiska again.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 17 B-25's bomb railroad targets at Mandalay; 2 others hit
Ngamya. Three B-24's bomb the Prome railroad yards; 5 hit the Mahlwagon
yards and roundhouse. 12 P-40's and a B-25 support ground forces in N
Burma.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force)
    In Burma, P-40's on armored reconnaissance strafe 15 horse-drawn wagons
at Wanling.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  VIII Bomber Command Mission 50: 104 B-17's of the 1st Bombardment Wing
are dispatched against industrial targets in the Antwerp, Belgium area.
The main force is directed at the Erla aircraft factory and Erla engine
works.  82 B-17's drop 245.5 tons of bombs at 1530 hours local.  We claim
23-8-4 Luftwaffe aircraft; we lose 4 to strong Luftwaffe fighter
opposition; 13 aircraft are damaged.  Casualties are 3 WIA and 40 MIA.
  HQ 56th Fighter Group and it's 61st, 62d and 63d Fighter Squadrons with
P-47C's transfer from Horsham St Faith, England to Halesworth, England.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sicily during the night of 4/5 Apr, Northwest African Strategic Air
Force (NASAF) Wellingtons bomb the Trapani docks and shipping. During the
day, B-17's bomb the airfields at Boccadifalco and Milo.
    In Tunisia, B-17's bomb airfields at Sidi Ahmed and Tunis. B-25's hit
the airfield at Bo Rizzo and attack a convoy off Cap Bon. P-38's fly several
fighter sweeps over the Straits of Sicily. One force of fighters claims 16
airplanes destroyed. Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF) A-20's
hit the Airfield at El Djem and La Fauconnerie. Fighters attack E-boats
off Pont-du-Fahs and vehicles S of Bou Hamran, and fly sweeps,
reconnaissance, and patrol over the battle area in Tunisia. Western Desert
Air Force (WDAF) and Northwest African Coastal Air Force (NACAF) aircraft hit
motor transport W of Cekhira, bomb Djebel Zitouna Airfield, and strike
shipping in the Straits of Sicily. During the day Northwest African Air
Force (NAAF) aircraft claim destruction of nearly 50 aircraft in aerial
combat. Today starts Operations FLAX (5-22 Apr) which is designed to
destroy, in the air and on the ground, enemy air transports and escorts
employed in ferrying personnel and supplies to Tunisia.
    HQ 325th Fighter Group transfers from Tafaraoui, Algeria to
Montesquieu, Algeria.
    The 84th Bombardment Squadron (Light), 47th Bombardment Group (Light)
with A-20's transfers from Canrobert, Algeria to Thelepte, Tunisia.
    The 91st and 93d Fighter Squadrons, 81st Fighter Group with P-39's
transfer from Thelepte, Tunisia to Bone, Algeria.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, single B-17's attack occupied areas at several points
along the Huon Gulf coast, hit Finschaffen on the Huon Peninsula, bomb
Madang and other points on the N coast of New Guinea and hit Cape
Gloucester on New Britain Island in the Bismarck Archipelago.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 1993 18:46:28 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 6 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 6 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  Liberator, Consolidated (RAF)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-51, North American Mustang
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)

CENTRAL PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Seventh Air Force)
  The 333d Fighter Squadron, 318th Fighter Group with P-39's transfers from
Canton Island to Hilo, Territory of Hawaii.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 6 B-24's attack Pazundaung bridge, damaging the S approach.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Sicily, B-24's hit the ferry and slips at Messina harbor.
    In Italy, RAF Liberators, under IX Bomber Command control, bomb the
Naples area and rail facilities in Messina, Sicily.
    In Tunisia, B-25's fly 2 missions against concentrations in the Oued el
Akarit region, scoring hits on buildings, tanks, and numerous vehicles.
P-40's fly escort, fighter sweep, and strafing operations, attacking guns,
vehicles and personnel as the British Eighth Army begin their assault on
Oued el Akarit from which the enemy begins withdrawing during the night.
    HQ 376th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and it"s 514th Bombardment Squadron
(Heavy) with B-24's transfer from Soluch, Libya to Bengasi, Libya.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sicily, B-17's bomb the docks and ships at Trapani.
    In Tunisia during the night of 5/6 April, Wellingtons bomb the dock and
shipping at Tunis. During the day, B-25's and P-38's attack shipping in the
Straits of Sicily. Two forces of B-17's bomb a convoy further W, near
Zembra Island and hit a convoy off Bizerte. B-25's and A-20's attack
landing grounds and airfields at Enfidaville, La Fauconnerie, and El Djem.
La Fauconnerie bears the brunt of the attacks and is well covered. Fighters
escort the bombing raids, fly reconnaissance missions, and attack scattered
enemy movement.
    HQ 27th Bombardment Group (Light) and it's 91st Bombardment Squadron
(Light) with A-20's transfer from Nouvion, Algeria to Ras el Ma, French
Morocco.
    The 92d Fighter Squadron, 81st Fighter Group with P-39's transfers from
Youks-les-Bains, Algeria to Maison Blanche, Algeria.
    The 154th Observation Squadron, 68th Observation Group with P-39's and
P-51's transfers from Thelepte, Tunisia to Sbeitla, Tunisia.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  The 70th Fighter Squadron, 18th Fighter Group based on Fiji but operating
from Guadalcanal with P-39's, transfers to Guadalcanal.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER F OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-25's bomb the town area and AA positions at Salamaua.
Single B-17's bomb Finschhafen.
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, single B-17's bomb Gasmata while another
strafes Cape Gloucester.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air
Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945
by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN
1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59


 6 April

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - <first ever> to 6 Apr 1993
*************************************************

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There are 32 messages totalling 2458 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WEAP:  RE: Israeli Messerschmitts
  2. INFO: Italian Navy: Taranto and Cape Teulada
  3. USAAF 2 APR 43 (4)
  4. USAAF 7 APR 43
  5. USAAF 3 APR 43
  6. OA-10 & LB-30
  7. subscribe-me
  8. Flying Insects and Submersibles (15)
  9. Submarines (3)
 10. U505
 11. Naval Museum List
 12. WWII HRS Calender
 13. Italian Fleet Disposition

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 1993 20:39:09 -0400
From:    KAPLAN@DUQ3.DUQ.EDU
Subject: Re: WEAP:  RE: Israeli Messerschmitts

Now we hit home; I've been buying what materials I can on the early years of the IAF.  I'm also tryint to put together a 1:48 scale air force of historic planesin Israeli livery.  Anyway, Dennis Sparks is the winner of today's "Where did
those ME-109s come From?" contest.  The problem with the Jumo powered AVIAs was
torque...too much of it.  Half the planes that the Israelis brought from Czech.
groundlooped before they could fight.  As soon as the IAF could, it converted
to Spitfire Mk IXs, P-51s, and Mosquitos (voracious buggers, no?).  The IAF had
three B-17s that made a bombing run on Cairo, but later on were used primarily
for cargo.  They were phased out in the mid-1950s.  One of the best stories
about the young IAF concerned the clandestine purchase of 3-4 Connies, outfitted
and regiestered as Panamanian airliners, and flown in violation of the US embargo to Italy and Czechoslovakia for arms.  Later on they helped form EL AL.

                                        Richard Kaplan
                                        kaplan@duq3.duq.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Apr 1993 16:20:49 -0400
From:    "M. Joseph Barone" <m1b@RAYSSD.SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: INFO: Italian Navy: Taranto and Cape Teulada

        On the night of November 11, 1940, the British carried out a
daring and well-planned attack on the Italian fleet anchorage at Taranto.
Taranto is located in Southeast Italy, on the western side of the "heel"
of the Italian boot, on the Gulf of Taranto on the Ionian Sea.  All six
of the Italian battleships of the 5th and 9th Divisions were in port on
the night of the attack.  The new British armored carrier, "Illustrious",
approached undetected to within 170 miles of the base and launched two
strikes of torpedo-carrying Swordfish aircraft, some of which were from
the complement of "Eagle".

        At 11:14 PM, the 12.6-inch gun battleship, "Conte di Cavour"
was hit by one torpedo in her port bow between her number 1 and 2 turrets.
A minute later, the battleship, "Caio Duilio" was hit by a torpedo in her
starboard bow just behind her number 1 turret.  At the same time, the
15-inch gun battleship, "Littorio", was hit by three torpedoes: two in
her starboard bow and one in her port stern.  The British used flares to
illuminate the harbor and only two of the twenty-one aircraft were shot
down, both to anti-aircraft fire.

        "Littorio" and "Duilio" were moored in shallow water and were
run aground, down by the bows, to prevent their sinking.  "Cavour",
however, was moored in deeper water and the decision to run her aground
was made too late.  She listed to starboard and sank with only her
superstructure and main turrets above water.

        The next day, the undamaged ships, "Guilio Cesare", "Vittorio
Veneto", and "Andrea Doria" (which was still not fully operational),
were transferred to Naples while Taranto's defenses were upgraded.

        Salvage operations began immediately on the damaged ships.
"Littorio" and "Duilio" had held up relatively well and refloating
them was not particularly difficult and was accomplished within a
month.  "Littorio" would be fully repaired in a little over 4 months
and "Duilio" in 6 months.  "Cavour", however, suffered far more damage
and required a significant amount of lightening before she could be
raised.  In fact, "Cavour" would never see action again and was still
undergoing repairs in Trieste at the time of the armistice.

        Despite the losses at Taranto, the Italian Navy still had the
material wherewithal and desire to bring the British forces to combat.
This was demonstrated on November 27, 1940, when the encounter off Cape
Teulada (known by the British as the Battle of Spartivento) occurred.

        Concluding that the Italian losses at Taranto precluded
intervention, the British planned to run a convoy across the
Mediterranean.  On November 17, British reconnaissance sighted
Italian units at sea, alerting the Royal Navy that battleships
were still operational.  It was decided that the planned convoy
required a heavy escort, and Force H, including the battlecruiser,
"Renown, and the carrier, "Ark Royal", was to cover the convoy to
a point southwest of Sardinia.  Units of the Mediterranean Fleet,
including the battleship, "Ramilles", would then join the escort
and upon reaching Cape Bon, Force H would retire.

        On November 26, the Italian Fleet sailed, after being alerted
of British activity.  It was made up of "Veneto", "Cesare", six heavy
cruisers and 14 destroyers.  British forces, except for the presence of
the carrier, were nearly equal to this.  The Italian force was ordered
to the southwest of Sardinia on the morning of November 27.

        Admiral Campioni's freedom of movement was greatly limited by
orders from Supermarina (Regia Marina HQ) that he was not to engage the
enemy and risk his battleships, except under favorable conditions.  This
caution, after the events of Taranto, is understandable; however, Admiral
Campioni acted with excessive prudence.

        Due to poor reconnaissance information, the admiral concluded
that he was outnumbered and sought to avoid contact with the British,
though they were in close proximity.  However, Italian and British
cruisers sighted each other at great range.  The Italians fired with
great accuracy and the cruiser, "Berwick", was hit almost immediately.
In return the Italian destroyer, "Lanciere", was damaged by the British.
Admiral Campioni was still convinced of the need to withdraw while the
British cruisers tried to press home the attack.  Aircraft were launched
from "Ark Royal" but all of their attacks were unsuccessful.  The British
cruisers came on, but when they closed to within range of the 15-inch
guns of "Veneto", they quickly broke off the encounter.  Once again, an
inconsequential action had been fought.  The British could claim victory,
though, since the convoy had not been interdicted.

        The action again emphasized poor Italian naval-air force
cooperation.  Despite being close to Sardinia, no fighter cover was
provided to the Italian force and requested aircraft were late, just
as they had been in the Battle of Point Stilo.  The laborious Italian
chain of command required the commander at sea to request aircraft.
This request was sent to Supermarina which assessed it and then passed
it on to Superaero (Regia Aeronautica HQ) which also assessed the
situation and took what it considered to be the appropriate action.
This prevented prompt responses and robbed the commander at sea of
the support actually required.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 12:51:35 AEST
From:    "Wilber Williams, Prentice Centre" <CCWILBER@UQVAX.CC.UQ.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: USAAF 2 APR 43

>LB-30, Consolidated Liberator
>OA-10, Consolidated Catalina

Can smoeone tell me a bit more about the designations for these aircraft?
I'm familiar with the Liberator as a B-24 and PBY-4, and the Catalina as a
PBY-5.

Thanks,
Wilber

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Wilber WILLIAMS                            w.williams@cc.uq.edu.au      |
|Prentice Centre                            Telephone : +61 7 365 4232   |
|The University of Queensland               Facsimile : +61 7 365 4477   |
|Brisbane Qld 4072  AUSTRALIA                                            |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 07:18:10 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 7 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 7 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  F4F, Grumman Wildcat (USN)
  F4U, Chance Vought Corsair (USN)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, the reconnaissance airplane aborts shortly after
takeoff due to weather.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA AND INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 2 B-25's temporarily knock out a bridge on the Ye-u railroad
branch, crossing the Mu River between Ywataung and Monywa. Eighteen B-25's,
in 2 forces, bomb the Ywataung Marshalling Yard. P-40's support ground
forces N of Shingbwiyang. Six B-24's bomb Japanese HQ at Toungoo.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Sicily, B-24's attack Palermo harbor.
    In Tunisia, B-25's bomb retreating columns which are being pursued N of
Oued el Akarit by the the British Eighth Army's 30 and 10 Corps. Fighters
carry out bombing and strafing operations the battle area.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Tunisia, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) Wellingtons
attack Tunis and the Jabal al Jallud Marshalling Yard. Weather cancels all
other NASAF missions except for 2 reconnaissance sorties. All available
airplanes of the XII Air Support Command and Western Desert Air Force
(WDAF) hit ground forces which are retreating in all sectors. Fighters fly
sweeps over Medjez el Bab (claiming 3 fighters downed), a scramble mission
NW of Oued Zarga (5 fighters are claimed destroyed), and over 100 other
sorties (no encounters). Highway and motor transport are bombed between
Sfax and Sousse. Light and medium bombers, and fighter-bombers attack
concentrations N of the Oued el Akarit line. Units of the US II Corps make
contact with the British Eighth Army on the Gabes-Gafsa road.
    HQ 31st Fighter Group and it's 307th, 308th and 309th Fighter Squadrons
with Spitfires transfer from Thelepte, Tunisia to Djilma, Tunisia.
    The 318th Fighter Squadron, 325th Fighter Group with P-40F's transfers
from Tafaraoui, Algeria to Montesquieu, Algeria.  The squadron will fly
it's first combat mission on 17 Apr 43.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomons, a large force of Japanese dive bombers and fighters is
reported by coast watchers to be moving down the "Slot." In its path are
a convoy off the E coast of Guadalcanal, shipping at Koli Point, and a Task
Force at Tulagi. Every operable fighter (76) on Guadalcanal is sent up, and
the bombers are moved to the SW tip of the island for safety. The air
battle takes place off the Russells, near Tulagi, and over the convoy.
USAAF P-38's and P-39's and Marine and Navy F4F's and F4U's claim 39
aircraft shot down, 13 by USAAF fighters. Allied losses total 7 fighters.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-25's hit areas along the NE coast from Mur to Singor.
B-24's bomb the landing ground at Babo and town area of Fak Fak. Single
heavy bombers attack shipping and coastal targets at Lae, Salamaua,
Finschhafen and Wewak; Cape Gloucester and Kavieng in the Bismarck
Archipelago; and off Lorengau, in the Admiralty Islands.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 07:33:08 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 3 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 3 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 17 B-25's, operating in 2 forces, bomb the Myitnge bridge,
scoring hits on both approaches.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  HQ, 78th Fighter Group transfers from Goxhill, England to Duxford,
England.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Tunisia, B-25's the bomb Sfax-El Maou area during the night of 2/3
Apr. P-40's fly fighter-bomber missions N of Gabes.
    HQ, 12th Bombardment Group (Medium) and it's 434th Bombardment Squadron
(Medium) with B-25's transfer from El Assa, Libya to Medenine, Tunisia.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    Weather cancels Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF)
bomber operations.
    In Tunisia, Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF) fighters
strafe tanks and trucks at Kebira and Jabal Nasir Allah, and claim 14
aircraft downed in aerial combat over Djebel Berda. B-25's bomb the
airfield at Sainte-Marie du Zit. Western Desert Air Force (WDAF) light
bombers hit motor transport and gun positions N of Oued el Akarit.
    HQ, 81st Fighter Group and its 93d Fighter Squadron with P-39's
transfer from Thelepte, Tunisia to Bone, Algeria to patrol the coast of
Africa and protect Allied shipping in the Mediterranean.


SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, A-20's hit Kitchen Creek while single B-24's bomb
Korindindi.
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17's pound shipping and the airfield at
Kavieng while single B-24's bomb Kavieng.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 07:44:26 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: OA-10 & LB-30

Wilber Williams down in OZ asked about the LB-30 and the OA-10.
The OA-10 was the USAAF designation for the Consolidated PBY and
it's variations built by different manufacturers.  The following is
a tome I wrote on the LB-30 last year.

Please shout if you need anything else.



                   THE CONSOLIDATED LB-30 LIBERATOR


In late 1938, the US Army Air Corps (USAAC) approached Consolidated
Aircraft with a request to build the Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress under
contract to provide an additional production line; in January 1939,
Consolidated suggested to the USAAC that they build a long-range bomber
superior to the B-17.  On 1 Feb 39, the USAAC issued Type Specification
C-212 to Consolidated, Martin and Sikorsky for a new heavy bomber.  Since
they only had three weeks to respond, and Consolidated already had a
mock-up, it was no surprise that Consolidated signed a contract on 30 Mar
39 for a one prototype XB-24 to be completed by 30 Dec 39.  In Apr 39,
Consolidated received an order for seven YB-24s; in Aug 39, an order for 38
B-24As was placed by the USAAC.  The prototype XB-24 made it's first flight
(17 minutes) on 29 Dec 39 at San Diego.

In April 1940, the French ordered 175 export versions, the LB-30MF (Mission
Francais), the LB-30 representing the 30th project in Consolidated's Land
Bomber project series.  With the fall of France in Jun 40, the Brits took
over 135 of the orders with the designation LB-30.  The Brits requested
that their aircraft be equipped with self-sealing fuel tanks, armor plating
and tail and dorsal power-operated turrets.  Since all of the aircraft
would have to be modified to meet these requirements, the RAF swung a deal
with the USAAC to take 26 early B-24s in exchange for 26 LB-30s.  The first
six of the 26 were YB-24s (designated LB-30As) with the addition od
de-icers but no wing slots and without self sealing tanks.  The first of
these aircraft was flown across the Atlantic in Mar 41; all six were placed
in service with the Trans-Atlantic Return Ferry Service between Prestwick,
Scotland, Newfoundland and Montreal, Quebec.  The aircraft were initially
operated by British Overseas Airways Corp (BOAC), and later by RAF Ferry
Command, to fly ferry-pilots to Canada to pick up U.S. aircraft for
delivery to the RAF.  The first flight from the UK to Canada took place on
4 May 41.

Starting in Mar 41, 20 LB-30Bs (B-24A conversions) were delivered to the
RAF as Liberator Mk Is and equipped Coastal Command's No. 120 Squadron at
Nutts Corner, County Antrim, Northern Ireland.  These aircraft were
equipped with ASV radar, six 303 caliber machine guns and a tray of four or
six 20mm cannon under the fuselage.

In May 41, the USAAC accepted the remaining YB-24s equipped with
self-sealing tanks and armor plating and, beginning in mid-1941, nine
B-24As.  The latter aircraft were used by the fledgling Ferrying Command
over the North and South Atlantic routes beginning on 1 Jul 41 and 31 Aug
41 respectively.

The next RAF aircraft was the LB-30 Liberator Mk II which was 2ft 7in
longer lengthening the aircraft to 66ft 4in.  This aircraft also had
mid-upper and tail electrical turrets, 14x303 caliber machine guns and
commercial R-1830-S3C4-G engines.  The 139 Liberator IIs were intended for
the service with the RAF in the Middle East but after Pearl Harbor, the US
Army Air Forces (USAAF) "drafted" 75 of them.  Fifteen of these aircraft,
retaining their RAF serial numbers and the designation LB-30,  were
dispatched to the Philippine Islands but they never made it.  Four
eventually reached the 7th Bombardment Group (Heavy) in Java and the first
mission flown by the USAAF LB-30s was on 17 Jan 42 when the 7th Bomb Group,
operating from Singosari Airfield, Java flew a combat mission against the
Japanese.  Another 17 LB-30s, fitted with British ASV radar and Martin top
turret, were assigned to the Sixth Air Force in the Canal Zone for shipping
patrols.  In 1944, six of these aircraft were converted to C-87 Liberator
transports.

In Alaska, the 36th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) was equipped with six
Douglas B-18 Bolos on 7 Dec 41.  By the end of Dec, their complement of
aircraft had been supplemented by one LB-30 plus B-17s.  The squadron had
received more B-24s by Jun 42 and during 1942, was joined by the B-24
equipped 21st and 404th Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy).  LB-30s also served
in Hawaii and flew ASW patrols from Hickam Field until replaced by B-24s.
The fate of the one LB-30 in Alaska is unknown.

By the way, yesterday I said that the RAF Lightnings "drafted" by the USAAF
were P-388s.  Close but no cigar; they were designated P-322s and were used
for training in the U.S.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 13:39:51 +0300
From:    Ozgur Altinyay <ALTINYAY@TRBILUN.BITNET>
Subject: subscribe-me

Please subscribe me to your net
altinyay@trbilun
Thanks in advance

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 08:25:33 EDT
From:    Andree Webb <ISALW@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject: Flying Insects and Submersibles

Thanks to all the nice people who responded re Mosquitoes. Maybe I shall
yet get to see one in the air.

Someone once told me that a U-boat was captured and towed up the St.
Lawrence and now resides in Chicago somewhere. Have only heard this
from one source. Is it correct ?

Andree
(with an accent mark on the first e)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 09:19:36 +0100
From:    Bob Smart <bsmart@VERDIX.COM>
Subject: Re: USAAF 2 APR 43

> >LB-30, Consolidated Liberator

These were Liberators built to British specs the roughly corrosponded to the
early B-24 models but had a lot of detail differences.

> >OA-10, Consolidated Catalina

these were PBYs used by the Army Air Force.

>
> Can smoeone tell me a bit more about the designations for these aircraft?
> I'm familiar with the Liberator as a B-24 and PBY-4, and the Catalina as a
> PBY-5.

The PBY-4 is an earlier model of the Catalina (A twin engine parasol wing
flying boat) The Liberator was a 4 engine high wing, twin tail long or very
long range bomber.

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 08:20:30 CST
From:    "AD16000@NEMOMUS.BITNET. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Flying Insects and Submersibles

The U-505 is located at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago.
It is located just off Lake Shore Drive.  It's a pretty nice tour, and
the boat is kept in pretty good shape.

BTW, a couple of my reenacting friends on one tour were able to sneak up
into the conning tower, when the tour guide wasn't looking, and got to
nose around up there.  Another time, with permission, they were able to
go topside on the boat, dressed in Kreigsmarine attire, and take photos.
They look pretty good.  I'm interested in a SHARKHUNTERS point of view
of the U-505.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 08:32:42 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

> Thanks to all the nice people who responded re Mosquitoes. Maybe I shall
> yet get to see one in the air.

> Someone once told me that a U-boat was captured and towed up the St.
> Lawrence and now resides in Chicago somewhere. Have only heard this
> from one source. Is it correct ?

  U-505 is now in place at the Museum of Science and Industry, Chicago,
Illinois, USA.
  You can enter the boat and see most of it on the walking tour which
comes with taped commentary.
  The Museum also has a Stuka and a Spitfire in formation, suspended from
the ceiling.  (Safely out of reach of ex-moderators and list-owners :-).
   Naval fans will find the trip most interesting as there is large naval
exhibit adjacent to the 505.

Here's the relevant entry from "The United States Naval Chronology of World
War II":

June 4, 1944, German submarine U-505 is captured by hunter-killer group 150
miles off the coast of Rio de Oro, Africa.  Hunter-killer group (Capt. D. V.
Gallery) consists of escort carrier GUADALCANAL (CVe-60, Capt. D. V. Gallery),
and escort division (Comdr. F. S. Hall), composed of destroyer escorts
PILLSBURY (DE-133, Lt. G. W. Casselman), POPE (DE-134, Lt. Comdr. E. H.
Headland), FLAHERTY (DE-135, Lt. Comdr. M. Johnson), CHATELAIN (DE-149, Lt.
Comdr. D. S. Knox), and JENKS (DE-665, Lt. Comdr. J. F. Way).


> Andree
> (with an accent mark on the first e)

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 08:40:12 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <kitchel@OCTOPUS.DPSI.COM>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

Andree Webb writes:
|->
|-> Thanks to all the nice people who responded re Mosquitoes. Maybe I shall
|-> yet get to see one in the air.
|->
|-> Someone once told me that a U-boat was captured and towed up the St.
|-> Lawrence and now resides in Chicago somewhere. Have only heard this
|-> from one source. Is it correct ?

        Probably your informant meant U-505, which was captured intact
in the north Atlantic near the end of WW-II. It now is on land and is
connected to the east end of the Museum of Science and Industry in
Chicago. The museum is located near the University of Chicago at 57th
and Lake Shore Drive.
                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           kitchel@cs.indiana.edu, kitchel@dpsi.com
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 10:09:40 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

The U-505 was captured by the USS Guadalcanal, a CVE, and 4 destroyers
and/or destroyer escorts off the Azores in 1944.  The captain of
the Guadalcanal, Daviel V. Gallery, had noticed that when forced to
surface or be killed, the German U-boat sailors normally surfaced
and bailed out after setting the scuttling charges.  So he got the
bright idea of launching a boarding party, the first in USN history
since we fought the Brits in the War of 1812, to board the sub and
capture her.  Sure enough, the U-505 surfaced, the crew bailed out
and a boarding party from on escorts went aboard and disabled the
charges.  She was taken under tow, initially by the Guadalcanal and
later by a tug from Bermuda, and towed to Bermuda.  We got all the
code books, charts, etc. which we used in the ASW effort against
the U-boat.

The U-505 ended up in Portsmouth Navy Yard gathering rust after the
war.  Gallery, a Chicago native, initiated an effort to get the sub
for the Museum of Science and Technology in Chicago.  He was
successful, the boat was purchased and towed down the St. Lawrence
and across the lakes to Chicago.  The hardest part was getting it
across the short land distance to the museum.  She is currently on
display and you can tour her if in Chicago.

Gallery wrote five (?) books in the 60s; one was his account of
capturing the U-505; the other four (?) were fictional accounts of
a Chief Petty Officer in the Navy and I still laugh when I think
about some of the stories.  Obviously, they must be true although
he calls them works of fiction.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 10:14:37 +0100
From:    Bob Smart <bsmart@VERDIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

> Thanks to all the nice people who responded re Mosquitoes. Maybe I shall
> yet get to see one in the air.
>
> Someone once told me that a U-boat was captured and towed up the St.
> Lawrence and now resides in Chicago somewhere. Have only heard this
> from one source. Is it correct ?

U-505 was captured via a boarding party from the USS Guadalcanal and its
escorts( I think first boarders were from one of the DEs) It has been preserved
at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago.  The story of the capture is
told in several of Rear Adm Daniel Gallery's books ( One was titled U-505)
Gallery was the captain of the Guadalcanal at the time of the incident and led
the preservation effort. He is from Chicago ( things starting to make sense
here :-)
>
> Andree
> (with an accent mark on the first e)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 10:20:00 EDT
From:    TOBY FENWICK <TFENWICK@MIDD.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

Dear All,

        I may have missed this in the discussion of mosquitos and u-boats, but
how many mosquitos are left flying and where? The second question concerns the
De Havilland Hornet. Are there any left or left flying?

Cheers!

Toby

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 10:29:10 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: Submarines

While discussing the U-505, I thought some of you Navy-types, especially
the ooga-ooga sailors, might want to visit a WWII fleet-type boat at
Hackensack, New Jersey.  She is moored in the Hackensack River and vets
of the sub service take you on a tour of the boat.  It has been years since
I was there and I don't remember whether they ask for admission, donations
or both.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 10:38:00 EST
From:    "W.C. (RUSTY) DIVENS" <ERCOUPE@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

Of interest is that the late Dan Gallery was a fair writer.  He wrote
some humorous anecdotes of Navy life as well as some other works.

The U-505 incident is chronicled in his TWENTY MILLION TONS UNDER
THE SEA and also in CLEAR THE DECKS.

The writing style is entertaining and informative.

I believe that the capture was the first for the navy since the
War of 1812.  It was done at great risk, as the U-boats were known
to have self-destruct devices on board.

N93774

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 14:16:49 +0100
From:    Bob Smart <bsmart@VERDIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

> Of interest is that the late Dan Gallery was a fair writer.  He wrote
> some humorous anecdotes of Navy life as well as some other works.
>
> The U-505 incident is chronicled in his TWENTY MILLION TONS UNDER
> THE SEA and also in CLEAR THE DECKS.

TWENTY MILLION TONS ... was re-titled U-505 in the paperback edition

>
> The writing style is entertaining and informative.
>
> I believe that the capture was the first for the navy since the
> War of 1812.  It was done at great risk, as the U-boats were known
> to have self-destruct devices on board.
>
> N93774

The fact that it was captured and not surrendered at the end of the war is one
reason it still exists. According to one of Galleries books there was a demand
from the Soviets that it be destroyed since all surrendered equipment was to be
destroyed. Gallery, and posibly others said that since it had been captured
during the war and not surrendered at the end of the war it did not fall under
the agreement.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 15:22:01 -0300
From:    Jay White <JWHITE@MTA.CA>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

AW> Someone once told me that a U-boat was captured and towed up
AW> Lawrence and now resides in Chicago somewhere. Have only hea
AW> from one source. Is it correct ?

I don't know about the St. Lawrence part (although is certainly
would be the way *I* would take a U-boat to Chicago!), but I
too have heard that there is a U-boat there.  I think the Museum
of Science & Technology (is this correct?) is the specific
address.

BTW, I also heard there was one in Europe somewhere.  These are
the only two in existence that I know of.  I would be interested
to know if there are any others.

BBTW, the Deutsches Museum in Munich has one of the first operational
subs made for Germany before the First World War.  It barely escaped
destruction along with all the other WWI iron as a result of the Ver-
sailles Treaty.

cheers,
        Jay

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 14:26:12 EDT
From:    Andree Webb <ISALW@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

On Wed, 7 Apr 1993 15:22:01 -0300 Jay White said:
>BBTW, the Deutsches Museum in Munich has one of the first operational
>subs made for Germany before the First World War.  It barely escaped
>destruction along with all the other WWI iron as a result of the Ver-
>sailles Treaty.

I've seen it too. If I remember correctly it was for just a couple of
crew. There was one sub there like that. Pretty small.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 15:10:02 -0400
From:    John Riegsecker <riegsecker@UPS.EDU>
Subject: U505

I toured the U505 as a high school student.  The most amazing thing to me
at the time was how little space anyone had.

Somewhere, and I can't remember where, I read that Admiral King was furious
at the caputure and swore all concerned to secrecy because we were reading
the German ciphers and if word of the capture got out the germans would
correctly realize we had their code books and would change them.  Does
anyone know more about that aspect?

John Riegsecker

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 15:45:16 -0400
From:    John Riegsecker <riegsecker@UPS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

>AW> Someone once told me that a U-boat was captured and towed up
>AW> Lawrence and now resides in Chicago somewhere. Have only hea
>AW> from one source. Is it correct ?
>
>I don't know about the St. Lawrence part (although is certainly
>would be the way *I* would take a U-boat to Chicago!), but I
>too have heard that there is a U-boat there.  I think the Museum
>of Science & Technology (is this correct?) is the specific
>address.

When I lived in Chicago (17 years ago) it was The Museum of Science and
Industry.  A fascinating place for children of all ages.

John Riegsecker

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 09:59:43 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <cmort@NCOAST.ORG>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

> Someone once told me that a U-boat was captured and towed up the St.
> Lawrence and now resides in Chicago somewhere. Have only heard this
> from one source. Is it correct ?

Yes.  It's the U-505.  It's on display at the Museum of Science and Industry.
I believe it was captured by the USS Gallery (OR that was the name of the
captain of the ship that captured it).  It's a good tour.  I highly recommend
it if you're passing through Chicago.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 12:54:16 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <cmort@NCOAST.ORG>
Subject: Re: Submarines

>
> While discussing the U-505, I thought some of you Navy-types, especially
> the ooga-ooga sailors, might want to visit a WWII fleet-type boat at
> Hackensack, New Jersey.  She is moored in the Hackensack River and vets
> of the sub service take you on a tour of the boat.  It has been years since
> I was there and I don't remember whether they ask for admission, donations
> or both.

There's one in Cleveland too, the U.S.S. Cod(?) I think.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 22:11:17 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@NAT2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: USAAF 2 APR 43

> > Can smoeone tell me a bit more about the designations for these aircraft?
> > I'm familiar with the Liberator as a B-24 and PBY-4, and the Catalina as a
> > PBY-5.
>
> The PBY-4 is an earlier model of the Catalina (A twin engine parasol wing
> flying boat) The Liberator was a 4 engine high wing, twin tail long or very
> long range bomber.

He probably meant PB4Y -- Navy Liberators, or (later marks) Privateer single
tail versions.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 08:06:59 AEST
From:    "Wilber Williams, Prentice Centre" <CCWILBER@UQVAX.CC.UQ.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: USAAF 2 APR 43

Emmanuel Gustin writes -

>He probably meant PB4Y -- Navy Liberators, or (later marks) Privateer
>single tail versions.

Yes, you're perfectly right. Wrong, yet again! :-)

Wilber.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 08:10:06 AEST
From:    "Wilber Williams, Prentice Centre" <CCWILBER@UQVAX.CC.UQ.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

Also on the subject of submarines on display ....

At the Australian War Memorial, in Canberra, Australia, there is a Japanese
mini-sub. It was one of the three that raided Sydney Harbour during WWII.
It was sunk, then later salvaged. It is in three parts, still with the
damage where the depth charges blew it apart.

Wilber.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Wilber WILLIAMS                            w.williams@cc.uq.edu.au      |
|Prentice Centre                            Telephone : +61 7 365 4232   |
|The University of Queensland               Facsimile : +61 7 365 4477   |
|Brisbane Qld 4072  AUSTRALIA                                            |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 18:51:45 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Naval Museum List

Since we're talking about museums and display pieces, I grabbed this from
sci.military.  Please send additions to the address in the From: line below.

Larry J


>From Joe Poutre <jpoutre@shearson.com>


Here's the latest and greatest Official sci.military List of Naval and
Maritime Museums, compiled by me from information provided by the
following people, in no particular order:

Juan Carlos Barroux             Juan.Barroux@Corp.Sun.COM
Aryk Nusbacher                  aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
John Mosbarger                  johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com
DEICHMAN@cisco.nosc.mil
Knut Erik Hagen                 knutha@ifi.uio.no
Ed Rudnicki                     erudnick@pica.army.mil
stu@leland.stanford.edu
James Stricherz                 stricher@masig3.ocean.fsu.edu
William Bligh-Glover            wxb4@po.cwru.edu
Bob Underdown                   Bob.Underdown@f1040.n391.z1.fidonet.org
Thomas A. Russ                  tar@isi.edu
Bob McCormick                   bobmcc@tcs.com
Gunter Ahrendt                  gunter@antlia.cc.uwa.oz.au
Andrew Odlyzko                  amo@research.att.com
Rick Anderson                   "r_anderson"@nova.enet.dec.com
Al Wesolowsky                   abw@bucrsb.bu.edu
Gregg.T.Parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
Daniel Christopher Ladd         dl3a+@andrew.cmu.edu
Robert E Beville                rbeville%tekig5.pen.tek.com@relay.cs.net
Chris Thompson                  christ@sci.ccny.cuny.edu
Mike Vevea                      mike@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu
Our faithful moderator          military@cbnews.att.com
Mikael Borgman                  M.Borgman@ped.gu.se
Paul Tomblin                    pt@geovision.gvc.com
J. D. Baldwin                   baldwin@usna.navy.mil
Randolph Bentson                bentson@grieg.CS.ColoState.Edu
Robb Pryor                      robbp@healey_haven.esd.sgi.com
Richard Pierson                 fist@iscp.belcore.com
John J Seitz                    jseitz@dcsc.dla.mil
CDR Tim Taylor, USN             usclpao@nctamslant.navy.mil
Silvio E. G. Melo               cov90105@ufrj.bitnet
Brent G. Newsome                newsome@hq.crad.dnd.ca
Bob Cromwell                    cromwell@ecn.purdue.edu
Bill Gawne                      GAWNE@stsci.edu
Ken Rolt                        kdrolt@athena.mit.edu
Rick Anderson                   r_anderson@nova.enet.dec.com
Evan Gamblin                    0001847804@mcimail.com
Harri Hansen                    s39186k@kaira.hut.fi
Joar Ankarstein Larsen          joar@stud.cs.uit.no
Eric Kozowski                   kozowski@ohsu.edu
Gregory K. Ramsey               greg@anacapa.ncel.navy.mil
Bill McCormick                  billmcc@seanews.akita.com
Markku Luoto                    mluoto@cc.helsinki.fi


The list is generally in the following format:

COUNTRY
State, Province, Region, etc.
City
Museum name and location
Museum phone number
Ships           Class (CV, BB, etc.), number
Highlights

As you will see, I don't have all the information for all the places,
and I am always interested in reports of visits to these places, since
it makes me feel useful, so please EMAIL any reports, additions,
corrections or updates to:

jpoutre@shearson.com

I'll be sending out an updated list in about a month, to give you
time to check the list and me time to do my work.

Note: Even if you don't think you have a maritime museum nearby, check
your phone book and local tourist information source - you might be
surprised. I have listings for Iowa, Kentucky and some other internal
U.S. states, for example. If you do find one that's not on the list,
let me know.

Disclaimer:
Some information here was confirmed and/or corrected using the Sea
Classics magazine annual Naval and Maritime Museums issue and
OPSail'92, the Official Magazine of Operation Sail.
Also, be warned that this list is very long.

Here's the list:


BRASIL
Rio de Janeiro
Rio de Janeiro Naval and Oceanographic Museum
Rua Don Manuel, 15
(021) 221-7626
History of Brasilian Navy: maps, models of ships, publications and pieces
on history and oceanography.

Intinerant at Ports of Brasil
Naval Museum
Bauru           FF
British Bentick class frigate of WWII that operated on anti-submarine
patrol in South Atlantic from 1943 to 1945. Today she is an operational
museum ship based in Rio, on exhibition at principal coastal ports of Brasil.


CANADA
BRITISH COLUMBIA
Vancouver
Maritime Museum
St. Roche
RCMP vessel St. Roche transited Northwest Passage on several occasions,
including first successful Pacific - Atlantic crossing around 1920.
Look for the stuffed walrus.

NEW BRUNSWICK
St. John
New Brunswick Museum
Large collection of ships' figureheads, paintings, etc. During the late
1800s, something like a third of the wooden ships in LLoyd's Register
had been built in the St. John area.

NOVA SCOTIA
Halifax
Maritime Command Museum
Extensive information on the past and present ships of Canadian Navy,
including ensigns, colours, ships plaques, photographic archives,
uniforms, ships' logs. Just about anything relating to Canadian Navy
can be found with help from curators.

Halifax
Maritime Museum of the Atlantic
Sackville       Corvette
Details both Military and Civil Naval Transportation. Sackville is the
last surviving and actively commissioned WWII corvette.  Open for tours
all summer. Funds are currently being sought for further restoration of
the engineering spaces.
Excellent collection of small boats. Memorabilia from Mont Blanc, a
munitions ship that exploded in 1917 and wiped out downtown Halifax.
Also artifacts from Titanic - some victims were buried in Halifax.

Lunenburg
Maritime museum has some interesting sailing ships, and a
prohibition-era rumrummer.
Smith & Rhuland's yard, where both Bluenoses were built. Bluenose II
presently spends summer in Halifax.

ONTARIO
Kingston
Small museum containing traditional boats, such as St. Lawrence skiffs,
and canoes.

Ottawa
National War Museum
Sussex Drive
Highlights of all Canadian involvement in military actions, including
artifacts, equipment from WWI and WWII. Special exhibit on role of
Canadian Peace Keeping Forces around the world.

Toronto
Haida   DD
Ship saw limited service in WWII and Korea. Guns used in annual
Toronta Symphony Orchestra concert of the (what else?) 1812 Overture.


CHILE
9 Region
Talcahuano
Talcahuano Chilean Naval museum
Huascar         BB
This battleship belonged to the Peruvian Navy, but was captured by Chile
during the Pacific War (1879) during the Battle of Angamos. It is one of
the last classic ironclads afloat.  Peru is still asking for the return
of their ship.


ESTONIA
Tallinn, Pirita
Lembit         SS  (Mine laying sub)
Sub owned by Estonia, saw action under Soviet flag in WWII


FINLAND
Ahvenanmaa (Aland), Marianhamn
Pommern         Steel barque
In sailing condition.

Helsinki, Hernesaari
Russian Foxtrot-class SS
Will be open for public in spring '93. In active service until sold to
some Finnish businessmen, who are making a museum of it. In full working
order. According to one source, it will be turned into a restaurant.

Helsinki, Hylkysaari
Maritime museum
Mostly merchant history. On a island 3 km from Helsinki centrum - get
there by ferry.

Helsinki, Hylkysaari
Maritime museum
Kemi            Lightship
The last Finnish lightship.

Helsinki, Suomenlinna
Island Fortress, built 1750's. 2 km. from Helsinki Centrum, about 15 min
by ferry. One of the biggest sea-fortresses in the world, with some 2,000 guns
and 8,000 men. 20 kilometers of fortifications. Owned by Russians 1808-1917.
Some part of the islands, fortifications and guns from that time period.
Was attacked by England in the Crimean (?) war 1854. Has served also as prison.
Now 700 inhabitians living on the islands. Protected by Unesco.
There are several museums on Suomenlinna:

Vesikko         SS
Last survivor of 5 Finnish subs. Saw action 1939-40 and 1941-1944

Coastal artillery museum

Ehrensvard museum
Designer of Suomenlinna fortress. Gunnery officer, artist, ship designer.

Naval academy - need permission to visit. (Shouldn't be hard to get)
Finnish naval history 1700 - Guns, mines, machine guns, torpedo, uniforms,
Models of ships, stuff from Russian frigate St. Nikolai, sank 1790.


Kotka
Tarmo           Icebreaker
Served as a AA-ship in WWII, was hit by Russian bomber.

Kotka
Vmv 11          Patrol Motor Boat of WWII

Kotka, Varissaari
Ruotsinsalmen museo
Museum of the Ruotsinsalmi battles in 1789 & '90. Some 500 ships took part in
the Battles. In '89 Russia won, '90 Sweden-Finland won.

Turku
Sigun           Sail Barque
Floating museum. One of the few wooden sailing merchantmen in the world.

Turku
Suomen Joutsen (The Swan of Finland)
Sailing frigate, ex-school ship and sub-mothership of the navy.

FRANCE
Bayeux, France
Normandy Invasion Museum
On ring road around town, right across from the British Cemetery. Much
larger inside than it looks. Uniforms and equipment of all principles
involved. Rather complete collection of small arms, separate wing has
vehicles (including pieces of aircraft found in the the Channel in the
last few years). Labeling is all in French, but lots of the material
(newspapers, manuals, posters, signs, etc.) is in English.

Arromanche
Arromanche Museum
Just down the road from Bayeux, at the beach.  Part of floating harbor
is still there (it's *big*).  Small museum with a film, scale models
showing how it was made.


GERMANY
Bremerhaven
U-254D          Type XXI
Raised from the bottom after the war?


GREECE
Poros
Poros naval base, on island of Poros in the Aegean.
Georg Averoff           Armoured cruiser/pocket battleship
~10,000 tons, 4x10" 8x6" main armament, built in UK 1910
Check before visiting; ~13 years ago it was still an active training base,
only open Wednesday and Saturday afternoons. It is possible the base might
have been closed or the ship moved since then. Day trip from Athens.


HOLLAND
Amsterdam
National Maritime Museum (?)
Full-size replica of early 18th C Dutch East Indiaman, built from original
plans. Also two small 20th C. vessels, a minesweeper and torpedo boat(?);
not fully open as of summer '91. Large collection of ship models and
artifacts housed in old East India Company's magazine. About 1/2 mile east
of main railway station.


JAPAN
DD
Famed Russo-Japanese war veteran. See Nimitz Museum at Texas, US for
reference.

Yokahama
Mikasa          BB
Flagship of Admiral Tojo at Tsushima Straits during Russo-Japanese War.


NORWAY
Bergen  (west coast)
Haakonsvern Naval Base
Number of German WW2 minisubs as well as tower of submarine B-2 by the
UVBI. This is a fully operational naval base, so access is limited.
Contact the base before entering.

Drobakk
Oslofjord
Coastal Batteries of Oscarsborg
The Krupp guns of 1900 Moses, Aron and Joshva that sunk the German
cruiser Blucher in 1940. Oscrasborg is still in use as a training center;
access might be limited.

Horten (60km south of Oslo)
Marinemuseet
RNN base Karl Johansvern
Rap             PT  (built 1875)
Large collection different items related to the Navy, including guns,
turrets, torpedo batteries.

Lake Mjosa
Skibladner      Paddlesteamer
125 years old, still operates during summer.

Oslo
Bygdoy
Sjofartsmuseet
Fram            Exploration vessel used by Amundsen and Fr. Nansen
Ra, Kon-Tiki    Thor Heyerdal's ships
Civilian shipping, polar and exploration vessels.

Oslo
Bygdoy
Vikingskipsmuseet
Restored 1000 year old longboats found in this century.

Oslo
Forsvarsmuseet
Oslo Castle (central Oslo)
Models and artifacts from the Norwegian Navy, mainly 1905 - 45. Torpedoes,
guns, Hs293 guided missile, Enigma cipher machines, historical library
for researchers.

The Royal Norwegian Navy operates the museum vessel Hitra, a fully
restored subhunter from the US, used for commando operations on
Norwegian coast during WWII.


POLAND
Gdynia
Blyskawica      DD
Served with Free Polish forces in Royal Navy during WWII.

Warszawa (Warsaw)
Polish Military Museum
Complete military museum, including naval displays. Has static displays of
aircraft, armor, artillery, naval weapons outside. Uniforms and a Salyut
inside. Really cheap, even cheaper for students.
All labeling is in Polish.


RUSSIA
St. Petersburg
Aurora          Cruiser
One of three (four?) surviving pre-Dreadnaught cruisers.


SWEDEN
Gothenburg
Goteborgs Maritima Centrum (Gothenburg Maritime Center)
Packhuskajen, Lilla Bommen
Int.tel: +46 31 101290
Smaland         DD
Nordkaparen     SS
Fryken          Freighter

Gothenburg
Sjofartsmuseet med akvariet (The museum of shipping and the aquarium)
Karl Johansgatan 1-3
Int.tel: +46 31 612901
Indoor museum. Exhibitions covering all aspects of civilian shipping.

Gothenburg
Nya Ilvsborgs Fistning (The New Ilvsborg Fortress)
Ferry from Packhuskajen, Lilla Bommen
Fortress is located in the entrance to the river Gotaalv. It successfully
defended the city from naval attack during the 18th and 19th centuries.
Exhibitions includes display on Thordenskiold, the Norwegian naval
commander who led the attacks on Gothenburg, and museum covering the
excavations of the 19th century East India tradeship Gothenburg, which
after 3 years in East India sank just outside the fortress.

Stockholm
Sjohistoriska Museet (The Maritime Historical Museum)
Djurgordsbrunnsvogen 24
Good selection of models of commercial and military subjects from all
times.

Stockholm
Vasamuseet (Vasa Museum)
+46 8 6664800
Vasa            Wood ship-of-the-line
Ship sank on her maiden voyage.  She was found and raised in 1950's or
60's, and is being refurbished.


UNITED KINGDOM (I chose this name since Jane's uses it.)
ENGLAND
London
Thames River
Cutty Sark      Clipper ship
Belfast         CA
Belfast is WWII era.

West Sussex
Portsmouth
HMS Mary Rose   Restoration project of 15th century ship
HMS Victory     Nelson's flagship at Trafalgar
HMS Warrior     Trend-setting 1860's armored frigate


UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

ALABAMA
Mobile
Alabama Memorial Park
Highway 90
(205) 433-2703
Alabama                 BB 60
Drum                    AGSS 228

CALIFORNIA
Long Beach
Pier J
(215) 435-4747
Queen Mary      Luxury liner
She is now a floating hotel.  Hercules H.2 flying boat Spruce Goose was there
but has been moved to Oregon. (Where?)

Monterey
Allan Knight Museum
550 Calle Principal
(408) 375-2553
Library and museum - renowned model collection.
This museum is currently (11/4/92) closed and is in the process of moving.

Port Hueneme
SeeBee Museum
Naval Construction Batalion Center
History of the USN Construction Battalions.

San Diego
San Diego Maritime Museum
1306 N. Harbor Drive
(619) 234-9153
Berkeley                Ferryboat
Star of India           Full-rigged ship

San Francisco
Golden Gate National Recreation Area
San Francisco Maritime National Historic Park
(405) 929-0202 or (415) 556-0560 or (415) 556-3002
Pampanito               SS 383
Jeremiah O'Brien        Liberty ship
Balclutha               Steel hull square-rigged merchant ship
Other ships
Pampanito is at Pier 45 on Fisherman's Wharf. The O'Brien is the last
unaltered Liberty ship in operating condition in the USA, and is at
Fort Mason Center.

San Francisco
Treasure Island Museum
(415) 395-5067
Island in the bay, museum of US sea combat in the Pacific.

San Pedro
Berth 52
Outer Harbor
Lane Victory            Liberty ship
Being restored.

CONNECTICUT
Bridgeport
Captain's Cove Seaport
1 Bostwick Ave.
(203) 335-1433
HMS Rose                Sail warship
Replica of ship that patrolled Long Island Sound during the American
Revolution.

Essex
Connecticut River Museum
Foot of Main St.
(203) 767-8269

Groton
Nautilus Memorial and Submarine Force Museum
(800) 343-0079 or (203) 449-3174
Nautilus                SSN 571
World's first nuclear propelled vessel and a submarine museum. Since
there are new subs being built nearby, be careful what you photograph.

There is a second sub in Groton that Ed Rudnicki says is the Croaker
(which I have listed as in Buffalo) in a private museum between
General Dynamics and the Nautilus. Could someone get me some more
information on both museums?

Mystic
Mystic Seaport Museum
50 Greenmanville Ave.
(203) 572-0711
Joseph Conrad           Steel hulled square-rigger
Charles W. Morgan       Whaler
Steam launch
Grand Banks schooner
Plethora of small vessels
Replica whaling town of 1800's. Nearby is Mystic Marinelife Aquarium.

New London
US Coast Guard Museum
US Coast Guard Academy
Route 32
(203) 444-8511

South Norwalk
Maritime Center at Norwalk
10 N. Water St.
(203) 852-0700
Nautical history and ecology of Long Island Sound. Includes an aquarium
and an IMAX theater.

DELAWARE
Wilmington
Battle of the Atlantic Memorial
Foot of King St.
(302) 656-0400
Mohawk          USCG cutter

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
Naval Museum
Washington Navy Yard
Building 76
(202) 433-4882
Barry           DD 953
Historical retrospective. Models, aircraft, paintings.

United States Marine Corps Museum
Navy Yard
On same grounds as Naval Museum.

The Smithsonian Institution
Constitution Ave. at 12th St.
(202) 357-2025
Philadelphia            Sail gunboat
Remains of first warship built in what would become the US, in the
Hall of Armed Forces History(?). Operated by Army, as Navy wasn't yet
formed.  Ship models are on display in the Hall of American Maritime
Enterprise, the Technology building and the Air and Space Museum.

FLORIDA
Key West
The Wrecker's Museum
322 Duval St.
(305) 294-9602

Panama City Beach
Museum of Man in the Sea
17314 Back Beach Rd.
(940) 235-4104
Diving and undersea exploration.

Pensacola
Pensacola Naval Air Station
Naval Aviation Museum

GEORGIA
Columbus
Confederate Naval Museum
101 Fourth St.
(404) 327-9798
Houses remains of 2 Civil War ironclads fished out of southern rivers
during 1960's Centennial. Both are little more than half of a burned
hull surrounded by iron armor sections, cannon, and other metal items
recovered from the rivers. Additional displays of uniforms, equipments,
models, etc.

Savannah
Ships of the Sea Museum
503 East River St.
(912) 232-1511
More than 150 ship models.

HAWAII
Honolulu
Arizona Memorial
1 Arizona Memorial Place
(808) 422-2771
Arizona         BB 39

Honolulu
Hawaii Maritime Center
Pier 7
(808) 523-6151
Falls of Clyde          Full-rigged ship
Hokule'a                Polynesian canoe - replica

Utah Memorial - on Ford Island
Utah            Target ship, ex-BB 31
Ford island is still a Naval base, so call ahead for information.

Pacific Fleet Submarine Museum
11 Arizona Memorial Drive
(808) 423-1341
Bowfin          SS 287
Outside are 2-man Japanese subs and a Regulus I.

ILLINOIS
Chicago
Chicago Museum of Science and Industry
57th St. and Lake Shore Drive
(312) 684-1414
U-505           SS (German)
U-boat was captured by US CVE Bogue during WWII. Museum has an exhibit
called "Ships Through the Ages."

IOWA
Dubuque
Woodward Riverboat Museum
2nd St., Ice Harbor
(319) 557-9545
William M. Black        Sidewheeler
Upper Mississippi navigational history including a collection of vessels.

Keokuk River Museum
Victory Park
(319) 524-4765
George M. Verity        Steam sternwheeler
Museum of the Mississippi and riverboats.

Le Clair
Buffalo Bill Museum
200 N. River Dr.
Includes displays on upper Mississippi water transportation, and one
of the few surviving wood riverboats.

KENTUCKY
Louisville
4th Ave. and River Rd.
(502) 625-2355
Belle of Louisville     Steamboat
Built in 1914, now makes day trips. Carries museum about steamboats.

LOUISIANA
Baton Rouge
Louisiana Naval War Museum
305 S. River Rd.
(504) 342-1942
Kidd            DD
Displays from former Louisiana Maritime Museum.

MAINE
Bath
Maine Maritime Museum
243 Washington St.
(207) 443-1316
Restored shipyard, plus >100 small craft.

Boothbay
Grand Banks Schooner Museum
Route 27
(207) 633-4727
Sherman Zwicker         Schooner
History of fishing and fishing vessels of the north Atlantic.

Greenville
Moosehead Marine Museum
(207) 695-2716
Katahdin        Lake steamer
History of western Maine's lakes.

Kittery
Kittery Historical and Naval Museum
Rogers Rd.
(207) 439-3080
History of Maine's oldest settlement.

Rockland
Shore Village Museum
104 Limerock St.
(207) 594-0311
Lighthouse artifacts.

Searsport
Penobscot Marine Museum
Church St.
(207) 548-2529
Fishing and seafairing history. Paintings and small boats on display.

South Portland
Spring Point Museum
Southern Maine Technical College
Fort Rd.
(207) 799-6337
Museum of the port of Portland. Includes bow of clipper ship Snow
Squall, built in Portland.

MARYLAND
Annapolis
U. S. Naval Academy
Preble Hall
(410) 267-6100 (Academy)
(410) 267-2108 (Museum)
or (301) 267-2108
Academy itself is National Historic Shrine, containing multitude of
monuments and relics, including foremast of BB USS Maine and crypt of
John Paul Jones.
Museum run by the U.S. Naval Institute. Contains a brand new model
ship gallery which contains some of the most spectacular items from
the Naval Academy's impressive model ship collection.

Baltimore
Baltimore Harbor
Pier 1
Constellation Dock
(410) 539-1797 or -1798
Constellation           Sail frigate
Tursk                   AGSS 423
Constellation is last wooden warship built in US. The US Navy used
funds appropriated for repair of vessels to completely rebuild frigate
Constellation of War of 1812 fame.

Baltimore
100 Light St.
Pride of Baltimore      Interpretation of a "Baltimore Clipper"
Second ship of the name. First was lost at sea some years ago.

Baltimore
Radcliff Maritime Museum
201 W. Monument St.
(301) 685-3750

Historic St. Mary's City
Rosecroft Rd.
(301) 862-0990
Maryland Dove           Sailing ship
The Dove is an interpretation of one of the ships that brought early
settlers to Maryland.

St. Michaels
Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum
Navy Point
(301) 745-2916
>80 vessels and small boats.

Solomons
Calvert Marine Museum
Routes 2 and 4
(301) 326-2042
Drum Point Lighthouse and number of small craft.

MASSACHUSETTS
Boston
Boston National Historical Park
(617) 242-5601
Constitution    Sail frigate
Cassin Young    DD
Constitution is oldest ship on US Navy lists. Crewed by Navy personnel
wearing period uniforms.

Cambridge
Hart Nautical Gallery
Bldg. 5, 1st floor
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
77 Massachusetts Avenue
Gallery has three parts: collection of ship models from ancient to
modern, hull half-sections of various boats/ships/subs and sail craft,
and modern displays changed about every year. (Current theme is robot
sub exploration - also has one of MIT's human powered subs hanging from
the ceiling). No fee. Look for full size anchors on loan from US Navy.

Fall River
Battleship Cove
(508) 678-1100
Massachusetts           BB
Joseph P. Kennedy       DD
Lionfish                SS 298
PT 796

Fall River
Marine Museum of Fall River
70 Water St.
(508) 674-3533
History of Fall River Line, steam power. >100 models.

Glouchester
Cape Ann Histoical Association
27 Pleasant St.
(508) 283-0455
Fishing and works of Fitz Hugh Lane

Glouchester
Harbor Loop
(508) 283-0455
Adventure       Fishing schooner
Last old-time Glouchester schooner still sailing.

Hull
Hull Lifesvaing Museum
6 Circuit Ave.
(617) 925-5433

Nantucket
Nantucket Historical Association
2 Union St.
(508) 228-1894

New Bedford
10 Union St.
(508) 992-4900
Ernestina       Schooner
Fished the Grand Banks, sailed in the US Navy, and worked carrying
immigrants between New England and Cape Verde Islands.

New Bedford
New Bedford Whaling Museum
18 Johnny Cake Hill
(508) 997-0046
Half-size model of whaler Lagoda in main building.

Plymouth
Mayflower II/Plimouth Plantation
Replica of Mayflower in recreated Pilgrim settlement and Wampanoag
Indian village.

Quincy
U.S. Naval Shipbuilding Museum
Salem           CA-139
New museum. Possibly at or near Bethlehem-Quincy shipyard.

Salem
Peabody Museum of Salem
East India Square
(508) 745-1876
Largest collection of marine art in US.

Salem
Salem Maritime National Historic Site
174 Derby St.
(508) 744-4323

Sharon
Kendall Whaling Museum
27 Everett St.
(617) 784-5642

MICHIGAN
Detroit
Dossin Great Lakes Museum
100 Strand
Belle Isle
(313) 267-6440
History of Great Lakes transport, focused on Detroit.

Douglass
Blue Star Highway and Union St.
Keewatin        Passenger steamer
Reiss           Steam tug
Helen McLeod    Fishing boat

Mackinaw City Marina
(616) 436-5563
Replica of British sloop of war from around 1775 is centerpiece.

North Muskegan
(616) 744-9117
Silversides     SS 236

Sault Ste. Marie
Johnson and Water Streets
(906) 632-3658
Valley Camp     Lake ore freighter
Contains a museum of Great Lakes shipping

MINNESOTA
Duluth
Canal Park Marine Museum
600 Lake Avenue S.
(218) 722-2497

Duluth
350 Harbor Dr.
(218) 722-7876
William A. Irvin        Iron ore carrier
Lake commerce and boat technology.

Winona
Lee Park
(507) 454-6880
Julius C. Wilkie        Steamboat
One of the few surviving wood sternwheelers.

MISSISSIPPI
Biloxi
Biloxi Seafood Industry Museum
115 First St.
(601) 435-6320

NEBRASKA
Omaha
(402) 345-1959
Marlin          SST 2

Peru
Meriwether Lewis Museum
Brownville State Recreation Area
(402) 872-3815
Museum is aboard former Corps of Engineers dredgeboat.

NEW HAMPSHIRE
Portsmouth
Port of Portsmouth Maritime Museum
Market St. Extension
(603) 436-3680
Albacore        AGSS 569
History of locally built submarines. Tour of boat is primary
attraction.

NEW JERSEY
Hackensack
New Jersey Naval Museum
River and Court Streets
(201) 342-3268
Ling            AGSS 297
Regulus and other missles on display. Submarine oriented.

Highlands
Twin Lights Historic Site
Lighthouse Road
History of twin lights of Navesink and navigation.

Highlands
Sandy Hook
Series of naval defense batteries were built on the site, incl. 12 inch
mortars, one of which is on display. Sandy Hook was also national
proving grounds until 1907, when moved to Aberdeen.
Two Nike? missles stuck in the ground.

Jersey City
New Netherland Museum
Half Moon       Sailing ship
Replica of Henry Hudson's exploration vessel. Docked at wharf for boats
to Ellis Island, near old NJ Central RR station. Small museum on history
of New Netherland colony.

Morristown
Canal Society of New Jersey Museum Waterloo Village
(201) 235-8454

Paterson
Westside Park
First Holland sub, launched 1881. John Holland was a citizen of Paterson.

Pine Bluff
Farragut Marine Museum
Admiral Farragut Academy
(201) 349-4829

NEW YORK
Blue Mountain Lake
Adirondack Museum
(518) 352-7311
Collection of >200 small boats.

Bronx, Fort Schuyler
Maritime Industry Museum
SUNY Maritime College
(212) 409-7218
Two tugs and a merchant ship.
Evolution of seafaring.

Buffalo
Buffalo and Erie County Naval and Servicemen's Museum
1 Naval Park Cove
(716) 847-1773
Little Rock     CLG
The Sullivans   DD
Croaker         SS 246 (?)
PT
Museum has collection of models of many ships, mostly Great Lakes
vessels, including large before and after models of the Wolverine,
one of two side-wheelers converted into aircraft carriers during WWII
for flight training (other was Sable.) Several static displays
around the grounds.

Clayton
Antique Boat Museum
750 Mary St.
(315) 686-4104
World's largest recreational boat museum.

Cold Spring Harbor
Cold Spring Harbor Whaling Museum
Main St.
(516) 367-3418
Collection includes over 700 scrimshaw pieces.

East Hampton
East Hampton Marine Museum
101 Main St.
(516) 324-6850
Fishing, boatbuilding, whaling and sportfishing history.

King's Point
American Merchant Marine Museum
US Merchant Marine Academy
(516) 773-5515
Small museum on history since WWI.

Kingston
Hudson River Maritime Center
1 Rondout Landing
(914) 338-0071
Steam tug from 1898 and various other vessels.

Lake George Village
Minne-ha-ha     Paddlewheeler
Not a museum per say, the Minne-ha-ha is a steam-powered paddlewheel
excursion vessel that sails on Lake George.  The engine room is
enclosed in glass and the ship sports a steam calliope.

New York City
American Museum of Immigration
Ellis Island
Ferry from Battery Park or Liberty State Park in Jersey City
Lots of material - posters, postcards, photos, models - on various
ships which carried immigrants to the US.

New York City
Intrepid Sea-Air-Space Museum
Pier 88, 12th and West 46th
(212) 245-2533
Intrepid        CV
Edson           DD 933
Growler         SSG 577  (Take 'er down!)
Nantucket Lightship #?
Flight deck and hanger hold large display of carrier aircraft. Vehicles
and planes on display on pier. Museum inside carrier has wide range
of displays, including models and a film on carrier operations.

New York City
Museum of the City of New York
103rd St & Park Ave
Permanent display: Maritime New York - artifacts (some large), photos,
models, paintings

New York City
South Street Seaport Museum
East side, just south of Brooklyn Bridge
Peking          Square-rigged four masted sailing ship
Wavertree       Square-rigged sailing ship
                Lightship
Museum located in the midst of a (nice) tourist trap, right next to the
fishing docks, just south of the Brooklyn Bridge. Lots of shops and
restaurants.

Poughkeepsie
12 Market St.
Clearwater      River sloop
This is the ship's dock, but she is usually sailing the Hudson River.

Rome
Erie Canal Village
5789 New London Rd.
(315) 337-3999
Chief Engineer          Canal packet
Re-created canal village.

Sag Harbor
Sag Harbor Whaling Museum
Main and Garden Streets
(516) 725-0770

Syracuse
Erie Canal Museum
318 Erie Blvd.
(315) 471-0593
Housed in former weigh station. Display includes replica canalboat in
the weighlock.

West Sayville
Suffolk Marine Museum
Montauk Highway
(516) 567-1733
Two restored oyster sloops. Shell-fishing and recreational boating
history.

Whitehall
Skenesborough Museum
Skenesborough Drive
(518) 499-1155
Early US naval history and commerce on Lake Champlain and the upper
Hudson River.

NORTH CAROLINA
Beaufort
North Carolina Maritime Museum
315 Front St.
(919) 728-7317

Manteo
Elizabeth II State Historic Site
Replica of smallest of three ships that brought settlers to North
Carolina in 1585.

Wilmington
Eagle Island
(919) 752-1829
North Carolina  BB
Well done display. Impressive nighttime sound and light show.

Wilmington
New Hanover County Museum
814 Market St.
Emphasis on Civil War blockade and blockade-running.

OHIO
Ashtabula
Great Lakes Marine and US Coast Guard Memorial Museum
1071 Walnut Blvd.
(216) 964-6847

Cleveland
E. 9th St. Pier
William G. Mather       Great Lakes bulk ore carrier

Cleveland
N. Marginal Road
(216) 566-8770
Cod                     SS 224
Open May through October.

Fairport Harbor
Front Street (?)
Converted lighthouse and keeper's quarters. Pilot house of lake freighter.

Marietta
Ohio River Museum
601 Second St.
W. P. Snyder. Jr.       Steam towboat
Maritime and natural history of Ohio River.

Toledo
26 Main St.
(419) 698-8252
Willis B. Boyer         Lake freighter

Vermillion
Great Lakes Historical Society Museum
480 Main St.
(216) 967-3467
Maritime history of the Great Lakes. "Real snotty"

OKLAHOMA
Muskogee
USS Batfish Park
(918) 682-6294
Batfish                 AGSS 310
Museum is sub oriented.

OREGON
Astoria
Columbia River Maritime Museum
1792 Marine Drive
(503) 325-2323
Columbia        Lightship
Knapp           DD 563 (Bridge only - centerpiece of museum.)
Rasher          SS 269 (Periscopes and part of conn only.)
Artifacts from battleship Oregon, local Indian canoes, Lewis and Clark
artifacts, whaling.

Hammond
Fort Stevens State Park Museum
Site of attack by Japanese sub I-25 during WWII. Photos and artifacts
in display.

Portland
Oregon Maritime Center and Museum
113 SW Front Ave.
(503) 224-7724
Portland        Steam tug
Museum of Oregon's nautical history. Tug is steel-hulled sternwheeler.
Along seawall across street.

Portland
Oregon Museum of Science and Industry
Blueback                SS
Submarine is not yet there, but funds to move and modify her for display
were in this year's military appropriations bill.
Museum, however, is there.

PENNSYLVANIA
Easton
Hugh Moore Historical Park
200 South Delaware Dr.
(215) 250-6700
Josiah White            Canal boat
American canal history and technology.

Erie
164 E. Front St.
(814) 871-4596
Niagara                 Sail barque
Replica of Perry's flagship on Great Lakes during War of 1812.

Philadelphia
Penn's Landing
(215) 922-1898
Olympia                 Cruiser 6
Becuna                  SS 319
Olympia was Dewey's flagship at Battle of Manila Bay in Spanish American
War.  Note that 8 in. turrets are fabrications, as originals were
replaced with barbettes during WWI.

Philadelphia
Philadelphia Maritime Museum
321 Chestnut St.
Maritime US history, 30 small boats, 10,000 artifacts.

Philadelphia
Philadelphia Ship Preservation Guild
Chestnut St. and Delaware Ave.
Gazela of Philadelphia  Barkentine
Jupiter                 Tug
Barnegat lightship

Philadelphia
Port of History Museum
Delaware Ave. and Spruce St.
(215) 925-3804
Emphasis on Atlantic coast.

Pittsburgh
(412) 622-3303
Requin                  AGSS 481

Willow Grove/Hatboro
Willow Grove Naval Air Station
Rt. 611
WWII and more recent aircraft, including P-2 Nepture, on static display.

RHODE ISLAND
Bristol
Herreshoft Marine Museum
7 Burnside St.
(401) 253-5000

Newport
Museum of Yachting
Fort Adams State Park
(401) 847-1018
Shamrock V              J boat
History of yachting, America's Cup and solo sailing.

Newport
Naval War College Museum
Coasters Harbor Island
(401) 841-4052
Evolution and technology of sea warfare. (Surprise, surprise.)

SOUTH CAROLINA
Charleston
Charles Towne Landing
1500 Old Towne Rd.
(803) 556-4450
Adventure               Ketch (replica)

Mt.Pleasant
Patriot's Point Naval and Maritime Museum
(803) 884-2727
Yorktown                CV 10
Laffey                  DD 724
Clamagore               SS 343
Ingham                  USCG Cutter
Savannah                Nuclear powered cargo ship
Bills itself as World's Largest Naval Museum.  Savannah is only nuclear
powered commercial vessel ever built. Cutters served in Atlantic in
WWII on U-boat patrol.

TEXAS
Corpus Christi
Corpus Christi Museum
1900 North Chaparral
(512) 883-2862
Primary exhibit is artifacts recovered from two Spanish ships wrecked
in 1554.

Fredricksburg
Chester Nimitz Museum
Museum of the Pacific War
Ship sections, including the Fire Control area of a cruiser. Display
on famed Japanese warship from Russo-Japanese war: while touring Japan
after the war, Nimitz found the ship in terrible condition, and had it
set in concrete and made suitable for display.

Galveston
Seawolf Park
(409) 744-5738 or (713) 744-5043
Cavalla                 AGSS 244
Stewart                 DE
Self-guided tours.

Galveston
Texas Seaport Museum
2016 Strand
(409) 763-1877
Elissa                  Bark

La Porte
3527 Battleground Rd.
(713) 479-2411
Texas                   BB
Self-guided tours.

Rockport
Texas Maritime Museum
1202 Navigation Circle
(512) 729-1271
Texas maritime history. Several Texas coastal workboats.

VERMONT
Basin Harbor
Lake Champlain Maritime Museum
(801) 475-2317
Revolutionary War museum.  Replica of gunboat Philadelphia, plus
numerous small boats.

Shelburne
The Shelburne Museum
Route 7
(802) 985-3346
Ticonderoga     Passenger steamer
Colchester Reef lighthouse. Boat is dry-docked on the lawn.

VIRGINIA
Dahlgren
Naval Surface Warfare Center

Newport News
The Mariners' Museum
100 Museum Drive, exit 62-A off I-64
(804) 595-0368
Ship models, scrimshaw, figureheads, working models of classic steam
engines, small craft from around the world.

Norfolk
Norfolk Naval Base
(804) 444-7955
On most weekends, one or two Navy ships at Norfolk offer tours for
visitors. For information call the Naval Base Tour and Information Office
at above number.

Norfolk
Hampton Roads Naval Museum
Located on Norfolk Naval Base
Pick up pass at Tour and Info office, 9809 Hampton Blvd., Norfolk
(804) 444-8971
Paraphrased from brochure: Introduces you to over two centuries of naval
activity in and around the harbor of Hampton Roads. Tour begins
with Battle off the Virginia Capes in 1781.
Ship models, artwork and retrieved underwater naval artifacts continue
the naval story through the Civil War and into the 20th century.

Portsmouth
Portsmouth Naval Shipyard Museum
2 High St.
(804) 393-8591
America's first naval shipyard. Portsmouth lightship is nearby.

Williamsburg
Jamestown Settlement
(804) 229-1607
Susan Constant, Godspeed and Discovery
Replicas of ships that brought colonists to Jamestown in 1607.

Yorktown
Yorktown Victory Center
Route 238 and Colonial Parkway
(804) 887-1776  (Cute number, eh?)
American Revolution, primarily naval victory at Yorktown.

WASHINGTON
Aberdeen
Grays Harbor Historical Seaport
813 E. Heron St.
(206) 532-8611
Lady Washington         Brig
Lady is replica of first American ship to explore the Pacific
Northwest. Working shipyard is part of museum.

Bremerton
Turner Joy              DD
One block from Navy yard.  Has photographs of shipyard over
the years, large model of an aircraft carrier with frames and
plate of clear plastic. and what may be the oldest existing
cannon--a wooden device from China. Turner Joy is (in)famous for
the Tonkin Gulf incident. (Right?) Tours given of naval graveyard,
including BB Missouri, carriers, subs both nuke and conventional,
crusiers and other types.

Ilwaco
Nearby, on Columbia river
Cape Disappointment Lighthouse
Maritime museum - most northwesterly point Lewis and Clark reached.

Keyport
Naval Underseas Warfare Museum
Adjacent to Navy torpedo test facility.  Has models of support
ships and boats.  Also has actual research and rescue subs.

Seattle
Center for Wooden Boats
1010 Valley St.
(206) 382-2628
Boatbuilding shop, boat livery, display of many small boats.

Seattle
Coast Guard Museum/Northwest
Pier 46
1519 Alaska Way S.
(206) 286-9608
Collection of ship and boat models and uniforms of the U.S. Coast Guard.
Two high-endurance cutters and two icebreakers dock there, and are part
of the tour.

Seattle
Puget Sound Maritime Historical Society
2700 24th Avenue East
(206) 324-1126
Part of Museum of History and Science

WISCONSIN
Manitowoc Maritime Museum
(414) 684-0218
Cobia           AGSS 245

Joseph Poutre, aka The Mad Mathematician        N2KOW
jpoutre@shearson.com
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human.  At best he
is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not
make messes in the house.         -- Lazarus Long, "Time Enough for Love"

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 18:50:31 CDT
From:    Mark Coover <MCOOVER@UAFSYSB.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Submarines

Speaking of WWII subs on display, There is a good one on display at...Muskogee
Oklahoma, of all places. Its the USS Batfish which holds the record , as I unde
rstand it, For sinking enemy submarines. The Batfish was purchased years ago by
 the city of Tulsa , Towed up the Arkansas River as far as Muskogee, wher the r
iver make a turn narrow enough that the many barges strapped to it couldnt nego
iate. It was abandoned on the bank of the Arkansas at Muskogee  with no one kno
wing quite what to do. Eventually Muskogee built a War Memorial Park around it.
The tours are unsupervised and you can poke around as much as you like. I know
that it doesn't compare to the large displays that are on the east coast...but
for the heartland, its quite a Treat!
                                   Mark Alan Coover

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 20:10:55 CST
From:    "AD16000@NEMOMUS.BITNET. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: WWII HRS Calender

The World War II Historical Reenactment Society mainly serves reenactors
in the Midwest.  There are other organizations, such as the WWII
Historical Reenactment Federation, the 20th Century Tactical Studies
Group, and other organizations that sponcer events as well.  If anyone
knows of any other organizations that reenact WWII and have their
schedule, I'd be glad to add it to this list.  Please feel free to
repost on any other lists.

Events Sponcered by the WWIIHRS, or Units of the WWIIHRS
************************************************************************

April 23-24 Camden, OH, Western Front: Break-Out at Anzio, April, 1944

May 1-2 Jefferson Barracks, MO (St Louis), Living History Display and
battles, militaria show, and USO dance with live big band

May 7-9 Rosemont, MN, Western Front Battle

May 28-31 Columbia, MO: Salute to Veterans: includes living history
diaplays, battles, and performances by USN Blue Angels

June 13 Aurora, IL: 8th annual Aurora Airport Open House: Living History
displays and battles

June 12-13 Pacific Theater event--more info to come

June 26-27 New Lenox, IL: Howell Airport Living History Display and
Battle: Event includes stunt flying airshow with EAA

July 4 Ft. Knox, KY: Annual Ft. Knox Armor display at Patton Museum
       usually includes WWII armor on armor "battle" with infantry
support

July 17-18 Danville, IL: Living History Display and Battle, Vermillion
County Airport

July 31 Dana, IL: Ernie Pyle Festival: Parade, Display and possible
battle

Sept 10-12 Sparland, IL: Western Front Battle

************************************************************************


For those of you uninitiated living history display means a layout of
gear and equipment for public viewing.  A public display battle means a
small skirmish set up like a play for the public to watch.  An event
with just a "Western Front Battle" means a tactic "battle" that force
goes on force with no predetermined outcome, and is generally not open
to the public.

If anyone has any specific questions about these events, please contact
me direct.

 Tim A. Scherrer, Obergefreiter, 5. Kompanie, 2. Abteilung, 110.
Panzergrenadier Regiment, 11.Panzer Division (WWIIHRS)

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 21:02:53 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Italian Fleet Disposition

The article below is from the Naval Chronology.

03/03/44 President announces that the Italian Fleet will be
distributed among the United States, Great Britain, and Russia.

Does anyone have the distribution of the fleet available?  I'd like
to know what units went to each country and the new names of any units
renamed.

Thanks,
Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 21:24:27 CST
From:    Zel Eaton <AD04%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

There are several u-boats still intact in Europe.  I don't have the
references handy, but as I recall there are still three tied up in a sub
pen at Lorient (sp.) now part of a French base.  These boats are where
they were tied up at the end of the war.

Join SHARKHUNTERS INTERNATIONAL and learn all about it, first hand, form
the men who sailed them.  And by the way, Hans Gobeler was the man who
pulled the plug on U-505, only he didn't quite get it done correctly :)
(opened the sea strainer, actually) Zenon Lukosius was the American
sailor who managed to get aboard U-505 and replace the cap on the
sea-strainer, thus preventing the boat's sinking.  Also, the rumor is,
that members of Sharkhunters, identifying themselves as such, can
sometimes receive personal tours of 505.  but then, some people at the
Museum are members of Sharkhunters.  :) zel eaton
> AW> Someone once told me that a U-boat was captured and towed up
> AW> Lawrence and now resides in Chicago somewhere. Have only hea
> AW> from one source. Is it correct ?
>
> I don't know about the St. Lawrence part (although is certainly
> would be the way *I* would take a U-boat to Chicago!), but I
> too have heard that there is a U-boat there.  I think the Museum
> of Science & Technology (is this correct?) is the specific
> address.
>
> BTW, I also heard there was one in Europe somewhere.  These are
> the only two in existence that I know of.  I would be interested
> to know if there are any others.
>
> BBTW, the Deutsches Museum in Munich has one of the first operational
> subs made for Germany before the First World War.  It barely escaped
> destruction along with all the other WWI iron as a result of the Ver-
> sailles Treaty.
>
> cheers,
>         Jay



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
! Zel Eaton  (Bitnet) AD04@NEMOMUS (Portal) zel@cup.portal.com   !
!            (Internet) AD04%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU      !
!            (Voice) 816-665-1832 /\RCMA (MO-048) SHARKHUNTERS   !
!            INTERNATIONAL, Past Member Board of Dir. /\ CAF Col.!
!            #12855/\ "LOS NUMEROS" - ON LINE- Contributing Ed.  !
!            Me . . . I speak only for myself . . .              !
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 6 Apr 1993 to 7 Apr 1993
***********************************************

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There are 24 messages totalling 635 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Italian Fleet Disposition (3)
  2. F-5/P-38 (2)
  3. Italian fleet
  4. U505 (5)
  5. Flying Insects and Submersibles (3)
  6. Teterboro Display
  7. Additional Maritime Museum
  8. Naval Museum at Washington Naval Yard (2)
  9. Surrendered ships, U-505, & the Sara
 10. Surendered Ships, etc
 11. Tourist Subs
 12. Info needed
 13. A turning point? (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Apr 1993 22:44:30 MDT
From:    Steve Alvin <STEPHEN_ALVIN@DSU1.DSU.NODAK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Italian Fleet Disposition

>
> Does anyone have the distribution of the fleet available?  I'd like
> to know what units went to each country and the new names of any units
> renamed.
>
According to Siegfried Breyer's book Battleships and Battlecruisers,
the surviving Italian Battleships suffered the following fate:
Italia:  Returned to Italy Feb. 1947.  Allocated to the US under
         peace treaty as scrap.  Decommisioned June '48 and scrapped
         at La Spezia.
Vittorio Veneto:  REturned to Italy Feb. '46.  Allocated to UK under
                  peace treaty as scrap.  Decommisioned Feb. '48 and
                  scrapped at La Spezia
Andrea Doria:  REturned to Italy June, 1944, used as a training ship
               until 1956.  Scrapped 1957
Caio Dullio:   Same as Andrea Doria

Giulio Cesare:  Allocated to USSR as part of the peace treaty in Feb
                1947. Dec 1948 transferred to Augusta and then
                transfered to USSR in Feb 1949 as Z 11.  Incorporated
                into the Black Sea Fleet as the Novorossijsk.  Around
                29 October 1955 sunk in Sevastopol Roads as a result
                of striking a mine or from an internal explosion.

Unfortunately, I don't have any information for the rest of the
fleet.  You might want to check Jane's Fighting Ships from the late
'40's.  I hope this helps.

Steve Alvin
STEPHEN_ALVIN@DSU1.DSU.NODAK.EDU

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 09:36:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <MIMHCB@RULMVS.LEIDENUNIV.NL>
Subject: Re: F-5/P-38

Jack, an excellent documentation your list of F-2 till F-13 with
all their subtypes.
I found in Jane's the Northrop F-15 Black Widow the photorec.version
of the P-61E.
Have someone info about the F-1 and F-14??(not the Tomcat)
Peter de Lange

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 09:38:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <MIMHCB@RULMVS.LEIDENUNIV.NL>
Subject: Re: Italian fleet

Italian fleet.
For political reasons Churchill decided not to give the USSR Italian
batlleships in 1943.
Their comprimis was to send a Englisch battleship.
So the "Royal Souvereign" with US radar went into USSR service in 1944?
After the war she was send back to England.
Peter de Lange.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 06:14:02 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <hb9388@USMA6.USMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: U505

John Riegsacker,

REF:  U505

There is a book (maybe out of print now) by ADM (Ret) Daniel Gallery
which talks about teh capture of the U-505.  He was the CO of one of the
destroyers that was right there and he was in on the boarding.

I read this book about 15 years ago and I'm sorry to say I can't remember
the title.  The author's name is correct.

Hope this helps.

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 07:44:22 -0300
From:    Jay White <JWHITE@MTA.CA>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

BS> The fact that it was captured and not surrendered at the end
BS> of the war is one reason it still exists. According to one
BS> of Galleries books there was a demand from the Soviets that
BS> it be destroyed since all surrendered equipment was to be
BS> destroyed. Gallery, and posibly others said that since it
BS> had been captured during the war and not surrendered at the
BS> end of the war it did not fall under the agreement.

I'm not sure this was strictly true--it certainly wasn't for the
Canadian Navy, which had a half-dozen or so surrendered U-boats
in its possession at the end of WWII.  On the other hand, the
U-boats *were* eventually 'destroyed' in that all the useful stuff
was stripped off & the hulks were sunk in ASW exercises.  But this
didn't happen in come cases until a year or two after the war ended.

It's too bad somebody in Canada didn't have the same foresight as
Capt. Gallery--what a fine exhibit the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic
in Halifax (see Larry's recent post) would have if a German U-boat
were berthed alongside Sackville, the last corvette.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 07:23:13 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: Re: F-5/P-38

        Jack, an excellent documentation your list of F-2 till F-13 with
        all their subtypes.
        I found in Jane's the Northrop F-15 Black Widow the photorec.version
        of the P-61E.
        Have someone info about the F-1 and F-14??(not the Tomcat)
        Peter de Lange


I only listed the photo recon aircraft that were used in World War
II.  If I remember correctly, the F-1 was used in the early 1930's
and the F-15 Rainbow was a post-World War II development.

Let me check and I will post something, probably on Monday.  (Right
now I am working on a list of all Lockheed aircraft used by the
U.S. military for rec.aviation.military.  If there is any interest,
I will post it here also.)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 07:35:54 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: Teterboro Display

           WORLD WAR II AIRCRAFT AT TETERBORO AIRPORT, NEW JERSEY

I received a flyer in the mail yesterday describing a mini-display at
Teterboro Airport in Teterboro, New Jersey that may be of interest.  Three
of the aircraft of the National Warplane Museum of Geneseo, New York,
will be available for viewing at the airport on April 16, 17 and 18, 1993.
Specifically, the aircraft are:

  1. A Boeing B-17(G?) Flying Fortress
  2. A Consolidated PBY(-6A?) Catalina
  3. A North American B-25(J?) Mitchell

The display is held under the auspices of the New Jersey Aviation Hall of
Fame and Museum which is located at the airport.  The aircraft "will be open
to the public for inspection on the Atlantic Aviation ramp on Industrial
Avenue, Teterboro Airport."

Parking is free but admission is $7 for adults and $3 for children.  The
admission "includes a visit to both the Aviation Hall of Fame's old control
tower museum on the west side of the airport and the Fred L. Wehran
Pavilion and Educational Center on the east side."

Call (201) 288-6344 for additional information.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 07:48:31 +0100
From:    Bob Smart <bsmart@VERDIX.COM>
Subject: Re: U505

> I toured the U505 as a high school student.  The most amazing thing to me
> at the time was how little space anyone had.
>
> Somewhere, and I can't remember where, I read that Admiral King was furious
> at the caputure and swore all concerned to secrecy because we were reading
> the German ciphers and if word of the capture got out the germans would
> correctly realize we had their code books and would change them.  Does
> anyone know more about that aspect?

Gallery talks about the extreme concern over secrecy in his books. considering
they were written in the early 60s ( before Ultra) he doesn't mention that the
capture could have destroyed other sources of info but he does say the concern
was that if the Germans realized that the actual code books & machines had been
captured they would have changed them ( leading one to think that the capture
lead to a breakthrough in code breaking not that it would spoil an existing
one :-)

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 08:29:08 +0100
From:    Bob Smart <bsmart@VERDIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Italian Fleet Disposition

> The article below is from the Naval Chronology.
>
> 03/03/44 President announces that the Italian Fleet will be
> distributed among the United States, Great Britain, and Russia.
>
> Does anyone have the distribution of the fleet available?  I'd like
> to know what units went to each country and the new names of any units
> renamed.
>
> Thanks,
> Larry J

I don't have the distribution but I know that several US & British units were
'loaned' to the Soviets because we couldn't deliver Italian Units
I know 1 British R class Battleship ( Revenge?) and one Cincinatti class Cl
(Milwaukee?) were transferred in late 43 or early 44. There were other ships
involved. (probably all DDs or smaller) The loaned ships were returned after
the war. I seem to remember seeing something in Proceedings or Naval History by
a participant in the return process that said the Milwaukee was really trashed
when it was returned. I believe it was immediatly scrapped.

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 08:52:55 +0100
From:    Bob Smart <bsmart@VERDIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

> I'm not sure this was strictly true--it certainly wasn't for the
> Canadian Navy, which had a half-dozen or so surrendered U-boats
> in its possession at the end of WWII.  On the other hand, the
> U-boats *were* eventually 'destroyed' in that all the useful stuff
> was stripped off & the hulks were sunk in ASW exercises.  But this
> didn't happen in come cases until a year or two after the war ended.
>

That was within the time frame allowed. Remember the Prinz Eugen was used as
a test target at Bikini in 47?.  The victors were allowed to study the ships
but could not keep them for actual use.  I would not be surprised if that
clause was actually thought up by the US or Britian. after all who would usable
fleet units help the most? We were mothballing almost new ships. The Soviets
would have been the big winners if they were allowed to keep some of the
vessels.  When the US began insisting that the Soviets destroy some ships/subs
they had the Soviet diplomats said 'what about this U-boat you still have, you
haven't lived up to the agreement either'

I agree that it would be nice to have more 'relics' around Wish we could go
back and save Saratoga and/or Enterprise and a few others from the fate
they had.

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 08:04:44 CST
From:    "AD16000@NEMOMUS.BITNET. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Additional Maritime Museum

I know of an additional ship museum:

USS INAUGURAL, located on the St. Louis, MO riverfront.  She is a WWII
era minesweeper that participated in the battle for Okinawa and
performed patrol and minesweeping operations before being decommissioned
in 1946.  She is now a National Historic Landmark, and is open for
self-guided tours.  She is located at the North leg of the Arch.  Take
I-70 to the Arch downtown.  Park in the Arch parking.  Her address is
300 North Lenore K. Sullivan Blvd.  It costs adults $1.75, and children
over 4 $1.25.Tours are from 10am to dusk daily from April through
October.  She is ran by St. Louis Consessions, phone 314-771-9911.

I haven't been there to see her, but I've heard she is OK.  A friend in
the Navy Reserve had a change of command ceremony to attend on the USS
Inaugural.  They had to wear their Summer whites, and it was September.
The temperature was 40 degrees.  Let's just say that they froze their
rears off, and they are now floating somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 09:16:00 EST
From:    "W.C. (RUSTY) DIVENS" <ERCOUPE@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Flying Insects and Submersibles

>I agree that it would be nice to have more 'relics' around Wish we could go
>back and save Saratoga and/or Enterprise and a few others from the fate
>they had.

>Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)


Well, if you have the bucks, you can certainly visit these ships.

There are dive tours that go to the atoll.  Saw a special once about
diving the wrecks in Bikini and Rabaul.  Neat stuff.  The Sara(?)
had a hangar deck full of aircraft, and is in relatively shallow
water.

Eerie...

N93774

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 10:13:11 EST
From:    S214000 <S214@NMUMUS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: U505

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!!
Then Capt. Gallery was aboard the USS Guadualcanal when he came up with
the idea of capturing a U-boat. And VC-5 was the squadron assigned to
the Guadualcanal. Mike

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 10:53:22 -0400
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <SPARKS@CAER.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Naval Museum at Washington Naval Yard

Request for information....

Has anyone on the list been to the Naval Museum at the Washington
Naval Yard?  What aircraft are on display?  I'm planning a trip
to DC this summer to re-visit the Garber restoration facility for
the National Air and Space Museum.  Should I include a visit to
the Naval Museum as well?

Dennis E. Sparks
SPARKS@CAER.UKY.EDU
Lexington, Kentucky

P.S.  Larry, I'm sorry I forgot to use a flag in the SUBJ line; not
      sure which one would have been appropriate anyway....

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 10:16:26 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: U505

>
> Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!!
> Then Capt. Gallery was aboard the USS Guadualcanal when he came up with
> the idea of capturing a U-boat. And VC-5 was the squadron assigned to
> the Guadualcanal. Mike
>
Hmmm, the Naval Chronology shows VC-58 as being on Guadalcanal prior to
this incident, but doesn't show the embarked squadron at the time of the
capture.  Anyone know when 58 was replaced by 5?

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 09:45:18 MDT
From:    Steve Alvin <STEPHEN_ALVIN@DSU1.DSU.NODAK.EDU>
Subject: Surrendered ships, U-505, & the Sara

A strange series of topics, but I felt that one message would be
better than three.

I have read, and unfortunately I don't have the references handy at
the moment, that both the Soviet and French navies kept several ex-
German warships in servce well into the '50's.  If I remember
correctly, these were primarily the surviving Narvik class destroyers
(armed with the 5.9" guns) and some torpedo boats (Not the E-boats,
but similar to U. S. Destroyer Escorts).  I also think that both
navies kept in operation a few U-Boats, including several MK XXI (I
think that was the designation, the advanced design of fleet boat
that was just entering service, I apologize again for not having my
references handy!).

One of the prizes on the U-505 was the capture of a complete German
code book.  Even with the advances of ULTRA, this was a real windfall
and it allowed anti-submarine activity to be even more effective in
the remaining months of the war.  One disadvantage of the U-505 tour
in Chicago is that you can not go into the conning tower.

With in the past year, National Geographic did an article on the
ships at Bikini Atoll and it includes several good pictures of the
Sara.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 09:58:21 MDT
From:    Steve Alvin <STEPHEN_ALVIN@DSU1.DSU.NODAK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Surendered Ships, etc

I think I forgot to sign my name to my last message!  I'm new to e-
mail, so have some patience with me.

Steve Alvin
STEPHEN_ALVIN@DSU1.DSU.NODAK.EDU

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 10:57:24 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Naval Museum at Washington Naval Yard

> Dennis E. Sparks
> SPARKS@CAER.UKY.EDU
> Lexington, Kentucky
>
> P.S.  Larry, I'm sorry I forgot to use a flag in the SUBJ line; not
>       sure which one would have been appropriate anyway....
>
We only need the flags when traffic starts to get very heavy.  I'll post
a note when we reach a stress point.  Those of you who are original
members remember the slightly chaotic condition of the list when it started
so you can appreciate the more sedate pace we're moving with now.

Flags can, of course, be used at any time if you want to focus your topic
to a specific area.

Larry J

BTW, I'll be at the dedication of the Women's Memorial in DC next Veteran's
Day, 11 November.  If any of you are in the area, let's get together.

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 15:03:13 -0400
From:    Eliot Friedman <ekfriedm@THAMA1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Tourist Subs

While we're on the subject of old subs open to the public, I thought I
might mention the USS Torsk, on permanent display in Baltimore's Inner
Harbor.  There's a growing collection of other antique craft, including
the Coast Guard cutter Taney, and the 1812 vintage frigate Constellation.

-Eliot
ekfriedm@aec.apgea.army.mil

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 12:17:00 EST
From:    "W.C. (RUSTY) DIVENS" <ERCOUPE@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Info needed

I am posting this for a colleague who is doing some research
hopefully leading to publication.

--------------------- forwarded text -----------------------

The following are usually listed as the top five fighter aces
of the Italian Air Force in WWII:

Major Adriano Visconti
Sg. Maj Teresio Martinoli
Lt. Leonardo Ferulli
Cpt. Franco Bardoni-Bisleri
Sgt. Luigi Corrini

I would like any biographical information on any or all of the
above.  I am looking for unit affiliations, the fronts on which
they fought, types of aircraft flown, current location or date
of death, personal achievements, etc.

I am aware that Bardoni-Bisleri was teh only one to survive the war, and
that he flew a Macchi MC202 over the Med and N-Africa as a squadron
commander in the 12th Gruppo CT.  I have no information on the other four.

Any reference sources, personal recollections, whatever would be appreciated.

I have a special interest in info about Visconti.

--------------------------- end of text ----------------------------------

N93774
-Bill

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 10:35:18 -0400
From:    "M. Joseph Barone" <m1b@RAYSSD.SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: Re: Italian Fleet Disposition

        At the time of the armistice, "Impero" and "Cavour" were docked
in Trieste.  "Impero" was still under construction and a further 18 months
were needed to complete her.  "Cavour" was still undergoing repairs from
damage inflicted at Taranto, nearly three years before, and would need
another six months before she was completely repaired.  The Germans captured
these ships and suspended all work on them.  Dismantling of the ships
commenced in order to provide materials for the German war effort.  What
remained of the hulls of "Cavour" and "Impero" were sunk in Trieste by
Allied bombers on February 15 and February 20, 1945, respectively.  "Cavour"
was salvaged in 1946 and "Impero" in 1947 and they were scrapped.

        On September 23, 1943, an agreement of cooperation was reached
between the Allied and Italian navies concerning the fate of the Italian
fleet.  This was formulated by Admiral A.B. Cunningham, Chief of Allied
naval forces in the Mediterranean and Admiral Raffaele De Courten, Chief
of the Italian Naval Staff and Minister of the Navy.  The accord called
for the use of nearly all remaining warships, excluding the battleships,
against the Germans.  On October 13, 1943, Italy officially declared war
on Germany, formalizing the state of hostilities which had existed in
actuality since the armistice.  Except for the battleships, the units
returned to ports in Southern Italy and commenced operations.

        "Italia" (formerly "Littorio") and "Veneto" were interned in the
Great Bitter Lake, in the Suez Canal, with greatly reduced crews.  They
remained there, inactive, from October 1943 through February 1947.
"Cesare", "Doria", and "Duilio" remained in Malta with reduced crews
until June 1944 when they were returned to Italy.  "Cesare" remained
inactive in Taranto until the end of the war while the other two were
used on a limited basis, for training, in the waters of Southern Italy.

        The Italian government made vigorous efforts to have "Italia"
and "Veneto" returned to Italy and put back into service.  A proposal
was made to use the ships in the Pacific as carrier escorts.  However,
the Allies would not accede to such suggestions.  Instead the two ships
remained in Egypt, in the middle of the desert, like hostages, symbolizing
a vanquished nation.  They were finally allowed to sail home in February
1947, to face an even more denigrating fate.

        In 1944, the Russians had requested the immediate division of the
surviving Italian fleet, so they could take possession of their share.
While hostilities continued, this was not practical.  To placate their
ally, Britain and the US loaned a number of ships to the Soviets, including
the battleship, "Royal Sovereign", and the cruiser, "Milwaukee".  When
the war was over, the Soviets again demanded the Italian ships due them.

        Italy was obliged to sign a peace agreement in Paris on February
10, 1947.  This granted the "Cesare" (and other small units) to the Soviets,
"Veneto" to Britain, and "Italia" to the US.  "Doria" and "Duilio" were
to remain part of a reduced Italian Fleet.

        Separately negotiating with the countries in question, Italy
obtained renunciation of the ceding of the ships to the US and Britain
and a reduction in the number of ships assigned to France, which was
not scheduled to receive any battleships.  However, the ships in question
were to be scrapped.

        The "Cesare" was overhauled and decommissioned.  Given the number
Z-11, and crewed by and sailing under the flag of the Italian Merchant
Marine, the ship was transferred to the Soviet Union, at Valone, Albania,
on February 6, 1949.  The "Cesare" was renamed "Novorossik" in Soviet
service and was used as a training ship.  It is believed that she was
sunk in October, 1955, following the detonation of a mine.

        Despite Italian efforts to procrastinate on scrapping her modern
battleships until the clause in the treaty lapsed, "Veneto" and "Italia"
had their 15-inch guns sheared off and their machinery was destroyed.
These once-potent ships remained in this forlorn state for some years,
until October 1955, when they were scrapped.

        "Doria" and "Duilio" were of limited value due to their age and
design short-comings.  They were used as training ships and alternated
as the flagship of the commander-in-chief of the Italian Naval Squadron.
"Duilio" left active service in 1953 and was laid up at La Spezia.  "Doria"
was based at Taranto and was used for some years as a training and barrack
ship for the local naval school.  "Duilio" was scrapped between 1957-1958
and "Doria" between 1961-1962.  With their demise, the Italian battleship
passed into history.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 18:23:00 EST
From:    GERHARD REMPEL <GREMPEL@WNEC.BITNET>
Subject: A turning point?

While the subject title may be a bit of hyperbole, I did wonder about
the announcement this afternoon on CNN to the effect that the German
Constitutional Court had finally resolved the issue within the coalition-
government about German soldiers being involved in the enforcement of
the no-fly zone over Bosnia.

Is it significant to German citizens that German soldiers will be involved
in potential combat areas, albeit under UN auspices, and do so with the
full blessing of the top legal authorities? This is something, after all,
that has not happened since 1945. Is World War II finally over?

Gerhard Rempel
GRempel@WNEC/Western New England College, Springfield, Ma 01119. USA

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 18:45:43 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: A turning point?

>
> While the subject title may be a bit of hyperbole, I did wonder about
> the announcement this afternoon on CNN to the effect that the German
> Constitutional Court had finally resolved the issue within the coalition-
> government about German soldiers being involved in the enforcement of
> the no-fly zone over Bosnia.
>
> Is it significant to German citizens that German soldiers will be involved
> in potential combat areas, albeit under UN auspices, and do so with the
> full blessing of the top legal authorities? This is something, after all,
> that has not happened since 1945. Is World War II finally over?

   The Allies stated continuously that they were fighting political ideologies
and not the people of the countries of the Axis.  It's hard for the "common
people" to understand the subtle distinction of this.
   Daschunds and "German shepard" dogs were killed during WWI in the USA and
sauerkraut was renamed "victory cabbage."
   We need to learn from the war, and from the period after the war.  I'm
glad that it's now becoming possible for the old enemies to work together
in solving some of the problems facing the post-war world.

> Gerhard Rempel
> GRempel@WNEC/Western New England College, Springfield, Ma 01119. USA

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 20:36:50 CDT
From:    Mark Coover <MCOOVER@UAFSYSB.BITNET>
Subject: Re: U505

Gosh Barry , I hate to mention it , but the name of the book is  "U505".
  boy that was hard, I think I strained somthing!   Ok all kidding aside, I hav
e several of Adm. Gallery's books and I like em all....But U505 is my Favorite.
Its a quick read with a wealth of information about the times that is understan
derable to lay persons and Landlubbers like my self.How the Idea of seizing a s
ub started is intresting. A Uboat had surfaced and wallowed underfire for an ho
ur or so before sinking....Capt. Gallery Heard about it and started playing "Wh
at if we get that kind of Chance" games with his Officers...pretty soon they st
arted "Boarding Party ' Drills on the off chance They might get a crack at a su
b. then one day U505 is force up, close to them, and Shaszam! Opportunity meets
 Preperation and Captin Gallery is a Hero. Great Stuff, Great Book.  Mark.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 7 Apr 1993 to 8 Apr 1993
***********************************************

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There are 12 messages totalling 1107 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. U505
  2. USAAF 8 APR 43
  3. USAAF OA-10's
  4. USAAF 9 APR 43
  5. Lockheed Aircraft
  6. VC-58/VC-5
  7. Ye 'Old Pup
  8. B-17F "Ye 'Old Pup"
  9. USAAF 10 APR 43
 10. USAAF 10 APR 1943
 11. Spruce Goose (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 06:15:10 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <hb9388@USMA6.USMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: U505

Mark Coover,

Thanks for telling me the name of the book.  I had read it so long ago that the
title "just plumb evaded me".  I enjoyed it, as well as Dan Gallery's book
Cap'n Fatso. (That one I still have).

Have a good weekend.

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 07:15:27 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 8 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 8 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  P-40, Curtiss
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, The weather airplane scouts Kiska and islands W of it
with negative results.


CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
     In Burma, 9 B-25's bomb Meiktila Airfield; 6 B-24's attack the
airfield at Heho; and Ft Bayard Airfield is strafed by 9 P-40's. Enemy
stores at Ningam are hit by 4 P-40's and a B-25.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  In England, 56th and 78th Fighter Groups become operational. Added to the
4th Fighter Group (already operational), this enables VIII Fighter Command
to increase activity and paves the way for its coming role of escorting
bombers on deep penetrations into enemy territory.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Tunisia, P-40's fly 29 bomber escort, armed reconnaissance, and
fighter-bomber missions against retreating column along coast N of Gabes.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    Weather prevents all Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF)
operations except minimum weather reconnaissance.
    In Tunisia, Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF) P-40's and
Spitfires fly sweeps and armed reconnaissance over the Faid Pass-Fondouk
el Aouareb-Kairouan-Ousseltia area as the British X Corps attacks Fondouk.
Other fighters fly widespread reconnaissance and sweeps, attacking motor
transport S of Zaghouan. Western Desert Air Force (WDAF) fighters hit
retreating columns in the Cekhira-Sfax area.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  HQ 11th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and it's 4 squadrons, the 26th, 42d,
98th and 431st Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) with B-17E's and F's, transfer
from Espiritu Santo, New Hebrides Islands to the Territory of Hawaii.
Group HQ and the 431st go to Hickam Field; the 26th to Bellows Field, the
42d to Kualoa Point; and the 98th to Mokuleia.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17's and B-24's carry out small harassing
strikes, bombing Ulamoa, Finschhafen, and the airfield at Kavieng.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 07:19:47 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF OA-10's

Wilber Williams in Oz asked about the USAAF use of the Consolidated PBY
Catalina during WWII.  A quick research revealed the following:

                      THE CONSOLIDATED OA-10 CATALINA

The OA-10 was the US Army Air Forces (USAAF) version of the Consolidated
PBY Catalina series for air-sea rescue (ASR) operations during World War
II. The "OA" designation indicated Observation, Amphibian; all OA-type
aircraft were redesignated "A" for Amphibian in the revised designation
system introduced in 1948.  Although primarily used for ASR work, a few
OA-10A's were used by the Twelfth Air Force in North Africa as bombers,
with a 2,000 pound load on underwing mounts.  (First time I have heard of
this; does anyone have any information?)  The last A-10 was finally
withdrawn from service in January 1953 when the type was replaced by the
Grumman SA-16 Albatross (redesignated HU-16 in 1962). The OA-10's were
procured in three versions as follows.

OA-10-CO: 56 Consolidated PBY-5A's manufactured in San Diego, California
transferred from the US Navy starting in 1942; another 2 were obtained in
1947.  Survivors were redesignated A-10-CO in 1948.

OA-10A-VI: 230 PBV-1A's (Canadian version of the PBY-5A) built by Canadian
Vickers, Ltd at Cartierville Airport, Montreal, Quebec transferred to the
USAAF.  One, USAAF serial number 44-34054, was temporarily operated by the
Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) during World War II. Deliveries were 4
in 4Q43, 28 in 1Q44, 42 in 2Q44, 72 in 3Q44, 59 in 4Q44 and 25 in 1Q45.
(NOTE: On 11 Nov 44, Canadair, Ltd took over production of the OA-10A's and
Canadian Vickers gave up aircraft manufacture.)  The survivors were
redesignated A-10A-VI's in 1948.  Three ex-USN aircraft were acquired in
1949 as A-10A-CO's.

OA-10B-CN: 75 Consolidated PBY-6A's manufactured in New Orleans, Louisiana
transferred to the USAAF.  Survivors became A-10B-CN's in 1948.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 07:49:11 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 9 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 9 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in
pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, a B-24 flies reconnaissance over Kiska, Attu and the
Semichis.  P-40's fly reconnaissance over Kiska.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Tunisia, P-40's in a fighter-bomber role attack Sfax, as the
British Eighth Army, in pursuit of the retreating enemy, reaches a position
a few miles to the SW of the coast.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Tunisia, fighters continue reconnaissance of the N half of Tunisia
and the Straits of Sicily and hit enemy movement and defenses over wide
areas between Sfax and Enfidaville.
    HQ 320th Bombardment Group (Medium) and it's 443d Bombardment Squadron
(Medium) with B-26B's transfer from Tafaraoui, Algeria to Montesquieu,
Algeria.
    The 319th Fighter Squadron, 325th Fighter Group with P-40F's transfers
from Tafaraoui, Algeria to Montesquieu, Algeria. The squadron will fly
it's first mission on 17 Apr 43.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-25's bomb and strafe the airfield and town and dock
areas of Madang.  A-20's hit the Kitchen Creek-Mubo area.  Single B-17's
attack barges at Bogia, Alexishafen and Finschhafen and hit the town of
Wewak.
  In the Admiralities, vehicles at Lorengau on Manus Island are strafed.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air
Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945
by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN
1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 07:49:16 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: Lockheed Aircraft

I prepared the following listing for distribution in rec.aviation.military
on usenet and thought some of you might be interested.



                  LOCKHEED AIRCRAFT IN U.S. MILITARY SERVICE

USAAC/USAAF/USAF
----------------

Y1A-9: Projected attack version of the Y1P-24 2-seat fighter. One company-
owned aircraft tested at Wright Field as XA-938 but not purchased

A-28 Hudson: Military version of Model 414-08 Super Electra.
  A-28-LO: 52 lend-leased to RAAF as Hudson Mk IVA's
  A-28A-LO: 450 similar to A-28-LO but with convertible interiors for troop
transport; all to RAF as Hudson Mk VI's.

A-29 Hudson: Military version of Model 414-56 Super Electra
  A-29-LO: 416 intended for the RAF as Hudson Mk IIIA's but 153 were
"drafted" by the USAAF as RA-29-LO's (20 of these to the USN as PBO-1).
  A-29A-LO: 384 with convertible interior for troop transport; all for Lend-
Lease as Hudson Mk IIIA.
  A-29B-LO: 24 "drafted" A-29-LO's converted for photo survey work

AT-18 Hudson: Model 414 trainer version of the A-29
  AT-18-LO: 217 gunnery trainers
  AT-18A-LO: 83 unarmed navigator trainers.

B-30: The XB-30 heavy bomber project was not ordered nor built.

B-34 Lexington: Model 437-27-02 version of the USN PV-1 given USAAF
designation for procurement purposes
  B-34-LO: 200 lend-leased to the RAF as Ventura Mk IIB's; 20 were "drafted"
by USAAF as B-34-VE and redesignated RB-34-VE in Oct 42.
  B-34A-2-VE: 57 bomber trainers; to RB-34A-2-VE in Oct 42
  B-34A-3-VE: 28 gunnery trainers; to RB-34A-3-VE in Oct 42
  B-34A-4-VE: 16 targets tugs; to RB-34A-4-VE in Oct 42
  B-34B-VE: O-56-LO's redesignated in Aug 41; order cancelled
  B-34B-1-VE: 13 navigation trainers; to RB-34B-1-VE in Oct 42

B-37-LO: Model 437-96-03.  Originally, 550 O-56-LO's were ordered; they were
redesignated B-37-LO's in 1942.  Only 18 delivered.

RB-69A-LO: Seven Model 726's.  Five were ordered by the USAF and two were
modified from USN P2V-7 airframes.  Known to USN as P2V-7U; all later
transferred to USN and modified as SP-2H.

C-5 Galaxy
  C-5A-LM: 81 Model 500 transports
  C-5B-LM: 50 Model 500 transports

Y1C-12: One Model DL-1 Vega, msn 158, acquired for evaluation

Y1C-17: One Model DL-1B Speed Vega, msn 159

Y1C-23 Altair: One Model DL-2A Altair, msn 165

Y1C-25 Altair: One Model 8A Altair, msn 153

XC-35: One Model 10-E Electra, msn 3501, used for pressure cabin development
tests

C-36: Communications version of the Model 10 Electra.
  Y1C-36: 3 Model 10-A's purchased by USAAC; to C-36; to UC-36 in Jan 43;
later to Brazil
  C-36A-LO: 15 commercial Model 10-A's "drafted"; to UC-36A in Jan 43
  C-36B-LO: 4 commercial Model 10-E's "drafted"; to UC-36B in Jan 43
  C-36C-LO: 7 commercial Model 10-B's "drafted"; to UC-36C in Jan 43

Y1C-37: One Model 10 Electra, msn 1104, ordered as Y1C-37;  to C-37 and UC-
37 in Jan 43.

C-40: Military version of the Model 12 Electra Junior.
  C-40: 3 Model 12-A's purchased by USAAC; to UC-40 in Jan 43
  C-40A: 10 Model 12-A's purchased by USAAC; to UC-40A in Jan 43
  C-40B: 1 Model 12-A with tricycle landing gear; later used as airborne
radio lab
  UC-40D-LO: 10 commercial Model 12-A's "drafted"

C-56 Lodestar: Military version of Model 18 Lodestar
  C-56-LO: 1 Model 18-50 purchased by USAAC
  C-56A-LO: 1 commercial 18H-07 "drafted"
  C-56B-LO: 13 commercial 18-40's "drafted"
  C-56C-LO: 12 commercial 18-07's "drafted"
  C-56D-LO: 7 commercial 18-08's "drafted"
  C-56E-LO: 2 commercial 18-40's "drafted"

C-57 Lodestar: Commercial Model 18 Lodestars with Twin Wasp engines.
  C-57-LO: 13 commercial Model 18-14's "drafted"
  C-57B-LO: 7 commercial Model 18-08's "drafted"
  C-57C-LO: 3 C-60A-LO's re-engined with R-1830-43's
  C-57D-LO: 1 C-57C-LO re-engined with R-1830-92's.

C-59 Lodestar: Ten Model 18-07's ordered as C-59-LO's and transferred to RAF
as Lodestar Mk IA's.

C-60 Lodestar: Model 18-56
  C-60-LO: 36 with seats for 14 troops; 16 to the RAF as Lodestar Mk II
  C-60A-LO: 325 similar to C-60 but accommodated 18 paratroops; survivors
became ZC-60A-LO's in 1948.

C-63-LO Hudson: Original designation for the A-29A-LO.

C-66-LO Lodestar: One Model 18-10 Lodestar, msn 18-2148, acquired and
transferred to Brazil.

C-69 Constellation: Model 049
  C-69-LO: 22 Model 049-46-10's ordered by Pan Am and TWA and "drafted" by
USAAF
  C-69A-LO: projected versions never built
  C-69B-LO: projected versions never built
  C-69C-1-LO: 1 C-69-LO was converted with VIP interior; redesignated ZC-
69C-1-LO in 1948
  C-69D-LO: projected version never built
  XC-69E-LO: 1 C-69-LO converted

UC-85-LO: 1 commercial Orion 9D-2, msn 208, "drafted" in 1942; served until
Sep 44.

UC-101-LO: 1 commercial Vega 5C, msn 210, drafted in 1942; served until Aug
44.

C-104: Twin-engine transport project cancelled.

UC-111-LO: 3 commercial 14-WF62 Super Electras of KNILM "drafted" in
Australia in Mar 45

C-121 Constellation
  C-121A-LO: 9 749-79-39 cargo/passenger transports
  VC-121A-LO: 3 C-121A-LO's converted as Presidential aircraft
  VC-121B-LO: 1 749-79-38 VIP transport; 3 C-121A-LO's and 3 VC-121A-LO's
also converted
  C-121C-LO: 33 1049F-55, -75 or -96 long-range transports
  EC-121C-LO: RC-121C-LO redesignated in 1962
  JC-121C-LO: 2 C-121C-LO's as electronic flying test beds; also 1 RC-121C-
LO used for systems testing
  RC-121C-LO: 10 1049B-55-84's AEW aircraft; to EC-121C-LO in 1962; 1 to C-
121C-LO
  TC-121C-LO: 9 RC-121C-LO's for AEW training; redesignated RC-121C-LO
  VC-121C-LO: 4 C-121C-LO's converted to VIP transports
  EC-121D-LO: RC-121D-LO's redesignated in 1962
  RC-121D-LO: 72 1049A-55-86 AEW aircraft; to EC-121D-LO in 1962; 1 C-121C-
LO to RC-121D-LO
  VC-121E-LO: 1 1049B-55-97 for Presidential use
  YC-121F-LO: 2 1249A-94-75 with turbo-props from USN (R7V-2)
  C-121G-LO: 33 USN R7V-1's transferred to USAF
  TC-121G-LO: 4 C-121G-LO's converted as crew trainer
  VC-121G-LO: 1 C-121G-LO converted to VIP transport
  EC-121H-LO: 42 RC-121D and EC-121K aircraft for SAGE
  EC-121J-LO: 2 EC-121D-LO's converted with extra gear
  EC-121Q-LO: 4 EC-121D's modified for AWACS development
  EC-121R-LO: 30 ex USN EC-121K/EC-121P's as flying relay stations in
Vietnam
  EC-121S-LO: 5 C-121C-LO converted for tactical ECM
  EC-121T-LO: 23 EC-121D-LO's with computerized AEW equipment

C-130 Hercules
  YC-130-LO: 2 Model 082-44-01 prototypes
  NC-130-LO: 1 YC-130 modified
  C-130A-LM: 204 Model 182-44-03 transports; 14 more converted from RC-130A
  AC-130A-LM: 18 C-130A's modified as gunships
  DC-130A-LM: 8 C-130A's modified as drone directors
  NC-130A-LM: 5 C-130A's modified for tests
  RC-130A-LM: 15 photo recon aircraft plus 1 modified from TC-130A; 14 to C-
130A
  TC-130A-LM: 1 trainer modified from C-130A; to RC-130A
  WC-130A-LM: 3 weather recon aircraft modified from C-130A's; back to C-
130A's in 1970
  C-130B-LM: 156 Model 282 transports + 5 modified WC-130B's
  C-130BLC-LM: 1 modified C-130B for boundary layer tests
  NC-130B-LM: 2 C-130B's modified for tests
  RC-130B-LM: 13 electronic recon aircraft modified from C-130B's; modified
back to C-130B's
  VC-130B-LM: 1 VIP aircraft modified from C-130B
  WC-130B-LM: 5 Model 282 weather recon aircraft + 12 modified from C-
130B's; 16 modified to C-130B
  C-130D-LM: 9 modified C-130A's plus 12 Model 182 ski-equipped for Arctic
operations
  C-130E-LM: 486 Model 382 transports
  AC-130E-LM: 11 modified C-130E gunships; modified to AC-130H in 1973
  DC-130E-LM: 7 drone & RPV launchers modified from C-130E's
  EC-130E-LM: 1 Model 382 aircraft for Loran calibration plus 10 ABCCC
aircraft modified from C-130E's
  EC-130E-LM(CL): 5 C-130E's modified fro electronic recon
  EC-130E-LM(RR): 4 C-130E's modified for electronic warfare
  MC-130E-LM: 18 C-130E's modified for electronic recon
  MC-130E-C-LM: 10 C-130E's modified for Special Forces
  MC-130E-S-LM: 1 C-130E modified for Special Forces
  MC-130E-Y-LM: 4 C-130E's and the MC-130E-S-LM modified for Special Forces
  NC-130E-LM: 2 C-130E's modified for tests
  WC-130E-LM: 6 C-130E's modified for weather recon
  C-130H-LM: 142 Model 382C transports + 13 converted HC/VC-130H's and C-
130E
  AC-130H-LM: 11 AC-130E's modified in 1973
  DC-130H-LM: 2 modified HC-130H's for drone and RPV launching
  EC-130H-LM: 8 EC-130E's modified for ABCCC + 16 for ECM
  HC-130H-LM: 43 Model 382C ASR aircraft
  HC-130H(N)-LM: 2 Model 382C ASR aircraft for ANG
  LC-130H-LM: 4 Model 382C ski-equipped transports
  YMC-130H-LM: 1 C-130H modified for STOL tests
  MC-130H-LM: 24 Model 382C electronic warfare aircraft
  NC-130H-LM: 1 HC-130H modified for tests
  WC-130H-LM: 15 C-130H and HC-130H's modified for weather recon
  HC-130N-LM: 15 Model 382C ASR aircraft
  HC-130P-LM: 20 Model 382C ASR and helicopter tankers + 13 modified from
HC-130H's
  RC-130S-LM: 2 RC-130A's modified with searchlight pods
  AC-130U-LM: 12 Model 382C gunships

C-140 JetStar: Military version of Model 1329
  C-140A-LM: 6 similar to civil JetStar 6 as navaid calibration aircraft
  C-140B-LM: 5 utility transports
  VC-140B-LM: 6 aircraft as VIP transports plus 1 C-140B modified

C-141 StarLifter
  C-141A-LM: 284 Model 300 transports
  NC-141A-LM: 1 C-141A modified for testing
  YC-141B-LM: 1 C-141A modified as prototype for C-141B.  Redesignated C-
141B-LM
  C-141B-LM: 270 C-141A's modified with lengthened fuselage and refueling
capability

F-4, Lightning:  Model 222 photo recon version of P-38E and P-38F
  F-4-LO: 99 222-62-13's based on the P-38E; to RF-4-LO in 1943
  F-4A-LO: 20 222-60-13's based on the P-38F; to RF-4A-LO in 1943

F-5, Lightning: Photo recon version of P-38G/H/J/L
  F-5A-LO: 181 222-62-16 and 222-68-16's based on P-38G
  F-5B-LO: 200 422-81-21's based on P-38J; 4 to USN as FO-1
  F-5C-LO: 123 422-81-20 conversions of P-38H
  XF-5D-LO: 1 222-68-16 F-5A converted with plexiglass nose
  F-5E-LO: 705 P-38J's and P-38L's converted
  F-5F-LO: 422-87-23 conversions
  F-5G-LO: 422-87-23 conversions of P-38L

F-12: interceptor version of A-12
  YF-12A-LO: 3 prototypes
  YF-12C-LO: second SR-71A redesignated

F-14, Shooting Star: 1 YP-80A modified with cameras; to XFP-80. Used as FP-
80A (RF-80A) prototype.

YF-22A: ATF built with Boeing and General Dynamics. 13 ordered.

F-38, Lightning: P-38's redesignated in 1948

F-80, Shooting Star
  F-80A-LO: P-80A redesignated in 1948
  DF-80A-LO: Few F-80's converted as drone directors
  QF-80A-LO: F-80A's converted to radio-controlled targets
  RF-80A-LO: FP-80A redesignated in 1948
  F-80B-LO: P-80B-LO's redesignated in 1948
  F-80C-LO: P-80C-LO's redesignated in 1948
  NF-80C-LO: 1 F-80C to test aircraft
  QF-80C-LO: F-80C's converted to radio-controlled targets
  RF-80C-LO: FP-80C's redesignated in 1948
  TF-80C-LO: TP-80C redesignated in 1948; to T-33

XF-90-LO: XP-90's redesignated in 1948

F-94 Starfire: Model 780 (F-94A/B) and 880 (F-94C) fighter-interceptor
  YF-94-LO: 2 TF-80C's converted
  F-94A-LO: 110 production aircraft
  YF-94B-LO: 1 F-94A converted as F-94B prototype
  F-94B-LO: 357 production aircraft
  YF-94C-LO: Ex YF-97A-LO; 2 F-94B's converted as F-94C prototypes
  F-94C-LO: Ex F-97A-LO; 387 production aircraft
  YF-94D-LO: 1 support fighter version of F-94C
  F-94D-LO: 112 F-94D's (Model 980-75-14) ordered but cancelled before built

F-97 Starfire: Original designation of F-94C
  YF-97A-LO: Delivered as YF-94C
  F-97A-LO: Delivered as F-94C

F-104, Starfighter: Interceptor fighter and fighter-bomber
  XF-104-LO: 2 Model 083-92-01 prototypes
  YF-104A-LO: 17 Model 183-93-02 service test aircraft; later to F-104A
  F-104A-LO: 153 Model 183-92-02 production aircraft
  NF-104A-LO: 3 F-104A's as high-altitude trainers
  QF-104A-LO: 24 target drone conversions of F-104A
  RF-104A-LO: 18 Model 383-93-04 photo recon versions of F-104A cancelled
  F-104B-LO: 26 Model 283-93-03 2-seat trainer version of F-104A
  F-104C-LO: 77 Model 483-04-05 production aircraft
  F-104D-LO: 21 Model 383-04-06 2-seat trainer version of F-104C
  F-104DJ: 20 assembled by Mitsubishi for Japanese ASDF
  F-104F-LO: 30 Model 483-04-08 similar to F-104D for Luftwaffe
  F-104G-LO: 1,127 Model 683-10-19 all-weather fighter-bombers built by
Lockheed, Messerschmidtt, Fokker, SABCA and Canadair
  RF-104G-LO: 189 Model 683-04-10 photo recon version of F-104G built by
Lockheed, Fiat and Fokker
  TF-104G-LO: 70 Model 583-10-20 2-seat version of F-104G
  F-104J: 210 Model 683-07-14 interceptor version of F-104G for Japanese
ASDF.  Lockheed built 3; Mitsubishi assembled 29 for Lockheed-supplied
parts; and Mitsubishi built 177.
  F-104S: 246 Fiat all-weather interceptor.  Prototype was a converted F-
104G.

F-117A: 56 Stealth fighters built

XFM-2: Projected fighter superseded by P-38

XH-51A-LO Aerogyro: 2 high-performance research chopper for Army/Navy
evaluation

YAH-56A-LO Cheyenne: 10 test aircraft built but project cancelled

O-56: 550 Model 437 observation version of B-34 ordered; 18 delivered as B-
37's

P-38 Lightning: Model 22 twin-engine fighter
  XP-38-LO: 1 Model 22-64-01 prototype
  YP-38-LO: 13 Model 122-62-02 service test aircraft
  P-38-LO: 30 Model 222-62-02 production aircraft; to RP-38-LO in 1942
  XP-38A-LO: Model 622-62-10; 1 P-38 converted
  P-38D-LO: 36 Model 222-62-08 production aircraft; to RP-38D in 1942
  P-38E-LO: 210 Model 222-62-09 production aircraft; to RP-38E in 1943
  P-38F-LO: 527 Model 222-60-09, -15, -12 and 322-60-19 production aircraft
  P-38G-LO: 1,082 Model 222-68-12 and 322-68-19 production aircraft
  P-38H-LO: 601 Model 222-81-20 production aircraft; 128 to F-5C
  P-38J-LO: 2,970 Model 422-81-14, -22, & -23 production aircraft
  XP-38K-LO: 1 P-38E converted
  P-38K-LO: 1 Model 422-85-22 test aircraft
  P-38L-LO & -VN: 3,810 -LO's and 113 -VN Model 422-87-23 production
aircraft
  TP-38L-LO: 2 P-38L's converted as trainers
  P-38M-LO: 50+ P-38L's converted as night fighters

XP-49-LO: 1 Model 522 prototype

XP-58-LO Chain Lighting: 1 prototype

P-80 Shooting Star: jet fighter
  XP-80-LO: 1 prototype
  XFP-80-LO: XF-14-LO redesignated in 1948
  XP-80A-LO: 2 prototypes
  YP-80A-LO: 13 service test aircraft; 1 to XF-14
  XFP-80A-LO: 1 P-80A converted as recon prototype
  P-80A-LO: 563 production aircraft; to F-80A in 1948
  FP-80A-LO: 38 P-80A's converted for photo recon
  XP-80B-LO: 1 P-80A converted as prototype; later to XP-80R-LO
  P-80B-LO: 240 production aircraft; to F-80B in 1948
  P-80C-LO: 798 production aircraft; to F-80C in 1948
  FP-80C-LO: Number of P-80C's converted for photo recon; to RF-80C in 1948
  TP-80C-LO: 1 P-80C converted to T-33 prototype; to TF-80C in 1948
  P-80R-LO: Racer version for cross-country speed run

SR-71 Blackbird
  SR-71A: production aircraft
  SR-71B: 2-seat trainer

T-33: 2-seat trainer version of F-80C
  T-33A-LO: originally TF-80C; 5,871 production aircraft
  AT-33A-LO: armed conversion of T-33A
  DT-33A-LO: drone director conversion of T-33A
  RT-33A-LO: 85 photo recon production aircraft

T-40 JetStar: projected crew trainer version of C-140 not ordered

TR-1: high altitude recon aircraft
  TR-1A: 25 production aircraft redesignated U-2R
  TR-1B: 2 production trainers redesignated U-2RT

U-2: spy plane
  U-2A-LO: 48 production aircraft
  WU-2A-LO: at least 2 weather recon conversions of U-2A
  U-2B-LO: at least 5 production aircraft
  U-2C-LO: at least 2 production aircraft
  U-2CT-LO: at least 1 U-2C and 1 WU-2D converted to trainers
  U-2D-LO: 5 production aircraft and at least 3 U-2B's converted
  WU-2D-LO: At least 3 U-2D's weather recon conversions
  U-2R-LO: 19 production aircraft + 25 TR-1A's redesignated
  U-2RT-LO: 1 production trainer + 2 TR-1B's redesignated

V-4-LO Hummingbird: jet-lift research aircraft
  XV-4A-LO: VZ-10-LO redesignated; 2 prototypes
  XV-4B-LO: 1 XV-4A converted

VZ-10 Hummingbird: redesignated V-4

X-7A-LD: 61 high-altitude unmanned ramjet test beds

X-17-LD: 26 3-stage test vehicle

X-27 Lancer: Model CL-1200-2 low-cost development of F-104G cancelled


U.S. NAVY/U.S. COAST GUARD
--------------------------
C-121 Constellation
  C-121J: R7V-1 redesignated in 1962; also 1 USAF C-121G-LO transferred to
USN
  EC-121K: WV-2 redesignated in 1962
  EC-121L: WV-2E redesignated in 1962
  EC-121M: WV-2Q redesignated in 1962
  WC-121N: WV-3 redesignated in 1962
  EC-121P: Number of EC-121K's with updated ASW equipment

C-130 Hercules for USN and USCG
  C-130BL: 4 Model 282 ski-equipped transports; to LC-130F in 1962
  SC-130B: R8V-1G redesignated before delivery
  C-130F: GV-1U redesignated in 1962
  KC-130F: GV-1 redesignated in 1962
  LC-130F: C-130BL redesignated in 1962
  C-130G: 4 Model 382 transports
  EC-130G: C-130G's modified for TACAMO
  HC-130G: SC-130B redesignated in 1962
  HC-130H: 25 Model 382C ASR aircraft + 7 transports for USCG
  EC-130Q: 18 Model 382C VLF communications aircraft
  TC-130Q: 1 EC-130Q modified as trainer
  KC-130R: 14 Model 382C tankers for USMC
  LC-130R: 7 Model 382C ski-equipped tankers
  C-130T: 2 Model 382C transports
  KC-130T: 18 Model 382C tankers for USMC

C-140C JetStar: UV-1's redesignated in 1962. Order for 2 cancelled.

XFO-1 Lightning: 4 USAAF F-5B-LO's temporarily loaned to USN

XFO-1 Salmon: redesignated XFV-1

XFV-1 Salmon: 1 XFO-1 VTOL fighter redesignated

GV Hercules
  GV-1: 46 Model 282 tankers for USMC; to KC-130F in 1962
  GV-1U: 7 Model 282 transports; to C-130F in 1962

JO: Model 12-A Electra Junior
  JO-1: 1 12-A for use by Naval Attache in Brazil
  JO-2: 5 production aircraft; 3 to USMC
  XJO-3: 1 prototype with tricycle landing gear

P-2 Neptune: P2V redesignated in 1962
  P-2D: ex P2V-4
  P-2E: ex P2V-5P
  AP-2E: ex USN P-2E's used by US Army in 'Nam
  DP-2E: ex P2V-5FD
  EP-2E: ex P2V-5FE
  NP-2E: 1 P-2E for tests
  OP-2E: few P-2E's used for surveillance in 'Nam
  SP-2E: ex P2V-5FS
  P-2F: ex P2V-6
  MP-2F: ex P2V-6M
  TP-2F: ex P2V-6T
  P-2G: ex P2V-6F
  YP-2H: ex YP2V-7
  P-2H: ex P2V-7
  AP-2H: few P-2H's converted for special duties in Nam
  DP-2H: at least 2 drone director conversions of P-2H
  NP-2H: 1 P-2H for tests
  SP-2H: ex P2V-7S
  LP-2J: ex P2V-7LP

P-3 Orion: Model 186
  YP-3A: ex YP3V-1
  P-3A: ex P3V-1
  EP-3A: 1 modified P-3A operated by NATC
  NP-3A: YP-3A used as P-3 system test aircraft
  RP-3A: 2 P-3A's modified for oceanographic recon
  VP-3A: 3 WP-3A's converted as VIP transports
  WP-3A; 4 P-3A's converted for weather recon
  P-3B: 125 production aircraft
  EP-3B: 2 P-3B's for electronic surveillance; to EP-3E
  YP-3C: P-3B modified as P-3C prototype
  P-3C: 233 production aircraft
  RP-3D: 1 P-3C converted to survey aircraft
  WP-3D: 2 P-3C's converted for weather recon
  EP-3E: at least 10 P-3A's + 2 EP-3B's modified as electronic aircraft

P-7A: supposedly a replacement for the P-3 Orion

PBO-1 Hudson: 20 RAF Hudson IIIA's "drafted" by USN

PO Warning Star: Model 749A and 1049A
  PO-1W: 2 Model 749A-79-43; redesignated WV-1 in 1950
  PO-2W: 12 Model 1049A; redesignated WV-2 in 1950

PV Ventura and Harpoon: Model 37; USN version of USAAF B-34
  PV-1 Ventura: 1600 Model 237-27-01 production aircraft; 388 to RAF as
Ventura GR I
  PV-1P Ventura: PV-1's modified with cameras
  PV-2 Harpoon: 470 Model 15-27-01 production aircraft
  PV-2C Harpoon: 30 production aircraft for conversion training
  PV-2D Harpoon: 35 production aircraft
  PV-2T Harpoon: PV-2 & -2D's converted as trainers
  PV-3 Ventura: 27 RAF Ventura II's "drafted" by USN

P2V Neptune: Model 26 patrol bomber
  XP2V-1: 2 Model 026-49-01 prototypes
  P2V-1: 15 Model 026-49-01 production aircraft
  XP2V-2: 1 P2V-1 modified as Model 026-52-01
  P2V-2: 81 Model 026-52-02 and 126-52-02 production aircraft
  P2V-2L: 2 P2V-2's converted with skis
  P2V-2S: 1 P2V-2 converted as Model 226-52-03  with search radar i ventral
radome
  P2V-3: 53 Model 326-59-02 production aircraft
  P2V-3B: 1 P2V-3, 1 -3W & 1 -3C converted to close support aircraft
  P2V-3C: 11 P2V-3's converted as Model 326-59-05 for carrier operation
  P2V-3W: 30 Model 326-59-04 and 526-59-04 production aircraft
  P2V-4: 52 Model 426-59-03 and 426-42-03 production aircraft
  P2V-5: 372 Model 426-42-06, -11, -13, -15, -16 and 426-45-15 production
aircraft
  P2V-5F: Most P2V-5's converted; to P-2E in 1962
  P2V-5FD: At least 9 P2V-5F's converted to drone directors; to DP-2E in
1962
  P2V-5FE: P2V-5F's converted; to EP-2E in 1962
  P2V-5FS: P2V-5F's converted with Julie/Jezebel systems; to SP-2E in 1962
  P2V-6: 41 Model 626-42-12 production aircraft; to P-2F in 1962
  P2V-6B: 1 P2V-5 to P2V-6 standard
  P2V-6F: P2V-6's converted; to P-2G in 1962
  P2V-6M: 42 production aircraft; to MP-2F in 1962
  P2V-6T: P2V-6's to crew trainers; to TP-2F in 1962
  YP2V-7: P2V-7 used for development work; to YP-2H in 1962
  P2V-7: 318 Model 726-45-14 and -17 and 826-45-14 production aircraft; to
P-2H in 1962
  P2V-7LPL 2 P2V-7's for Antarctic work; to LP-2J in 1962
  P2V-7S: P2V-7's converted with Julie/Jezebel systems; to SP-2H in 1962
  P2V-7U: 7 to USAF as RB-69-LO

P3V Orion: Model 185
  YP3V-1: 1 prototype converted from commercial Electra; to YP-3A in 1962
  P3V-1: 157 production aircraft; to P-3A in 1962

RO-1: 1 commercial Altair DL-2A, msn 179, for use by Asst Sec of Navy

XR2O-1: 1 commercial 10-A Electra, msn 1052, for use by Sec of Navy

XR3O-1: 1 commercial 10-B Electra, msn 1053, to USCG for use of Sec of
Treasury

XR4O-1: 1 commercial 14-H2 Super Electra as staff transport

R5O Lodestar: Model 18
  XR5O-1: 1 Model 18-07 for USCG
  R5O-1: 3 production aircraft similar to Model 18-40; 1 to USCG
  R5O-2: 1 Model 18-07 production aircraft
  R5O-3: 3 production aircraft
  R5O-4: 12 production aircraft
  R5O-5: 41 production aircraft same as USAAF C-60
  R5O-6: 35 production aircraft same as USAAF C-60A

XR6O-1 Constitution: 2 Model 89 production aircraft; to XR6V-1 in 1950

R70 Constellation:
  R7O-1: 11 Model 1049B-55-75; to R7V-1 in 1950
  R7O-2: 2 Model 1249A-95-75 with turoprops; to R7V-2 in 1950

XR6V-1 Constitution: XR6O-1's redesignated in 1950

R7V Constellation
  R7V-1: 51 Model 1049B-55-75's; 32 to USAF as C-121G; rest to C-121J in
1962
  R7V-1P: 1 R7V-1 converted as photo recon aircraft
  R7V-2: ex R7O-2; to USAF as YC-121F

R8V-1G Hercules: 12 ASR aircraft for USCG; to SC-130B before delivery

S-3 Viking
  YS-3A: 8 prototypes
  S-3A: 179 production models
  US-3A: S-3A's converted as utility aircraft

TO: F-80C's and T-33's
  TO-1: 50 ex USAF F-80C's obtained as trainers; to TV-1 in 1950
  TO-2: 26 USN versions of T-33A: to TV-2 in 1950

TV: F-80C's and T-33's
  TV-1: TO-1's redesignated in 1950
  TV-2: 26 TO-2's redesignated + 699 T-33A's from USAF contracts; to T-33B
in 1962
  TV-2D: TV-2's modified as drone directors; to DT-33B in 1962
  TV-2KD: TV-2's modified as radio-controlled targets; to DT-33C in 1962

T2V-1 SeaStar: 1 prototype + 150 production aircraft; development of TV-2;
to T-1A in 1962

T-1A, SeaStar: T2V-1 redesignated in 1962

T-33: 2-seat trainer
  T-33B: TV-2 redesignated in 1962
  DT-33B: TV-2D redesignated in 1962
  DT-33C: TV-2KD redesignated in 1962

UV-1 JetStar: 2 Model 1329's; to C-140C in 1962

WV Warning Star: version of Constellation
  WV-1: PO-1W redesignated in 1950
  WV-2: 12 PO-2W's redesignated + 112 other Model 1049A-55-70, -86, -91 and
-127 production aircraft; to EC-121K in 1962
  WV-2E: 1 WV-2 modified with dish antenna; to EC-121L in 1962
  WV-2Q: at least 5 WV-2's modified for ECM role; to EC-121M in 1962
  WV-3: 8 Model 1049A-55-95 production aircraft + 1 modified WV-2 weather
recon aircraft; to WC-121N in 1962; at least 2 to USAF as EC-121R

XW2V-1: Model 084 Connie with turboprops to AEW aircraft; cancelled

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 08:26:19 EST
From:    S214000 <S214@NMUMUS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: VC-58/VC-5

Hello everyone,
it's time for me to be humble and apologize for my erroneous post about
the USS Guadaulcanal(?) and VC-5. Larry was correct; VC-58was aboard the
'canal while VC-5 was aboard the USS Kitkun Bay during the Battle
of Leyte Gulf.I was on my way to class when I decided to check my mail.
Next time I think I'll take my time. Mike

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 07:46:15 -0500
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ye 'Old Pup

Seen on Usenet and thought the list might be able to help.  Please reply
to the address in the From: line below if possible.

Larry J

From: 6425@execu.execu.com:
>
>Hello,
>
>  This may be a second post. I did'nt see it show up on the net
>  after the original attempt so I don't know if it made it or not.
>  If this is the second time you've read it, I apologize.
>
>+_+_+_+_+_+_
>
>  OK folks, here's a challenge for military historians out there.
>
>
>  This post is from my brother, who has read only access to usenet...
>
>+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
>
>
>
>  I am interested in a particular B-17F serial # 42-3167,
>named  Ye' Old Pup, that flew with the 448th bomb group
>based at AAF Station 117,Kimbolton England. In December
>of 1943, this aircraft, commanded by Lt.Col. Charles Brown,
>was badly damaged over the target. On the way home, a single
>ME-109 with a black, night fighter paint scheme, flown by
>Franz Stigler encountered the B-17.  After carefully looking
>over the bomber and noting its extensive damage, Stigler
>pulled aside, saluted, left for his base.
>
>Questions...
>
>1. Do pictures exist of this B-17 and where can they be found?
>
>2. Does anyone know the general markings of the 448th bomb
>group? Is there any documentation or are there pictures?
>
>3. Does anyone know about any "Night Fighting Jaghlstasfel" ,( sp? )
>based by the North Sea coast line? Is there any documentation or are
>therepictures of its paint scheme and markings?
>
>                                                Thanks
>                                                Mike Thompson
>+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
>
>
>Post or email, although posts are preferred.
>
>--
>________________________________________________________________________________
>Don Thompson @ Austin, TX           |   I may be opinionated, but at least
>Comshare Inc. dont@execu.execu.com  |   my opinions are my own.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
#L.W. Jewell Moderator at the Veterans Information Site (veteran@cc.purdue.edu)#
#& WWII-L Listowner: "Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange,#
#sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all   #
#phases of life." "Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41  #

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 11:14:43 -0400
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <SPARKS@CAER.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: B-17F "Ye 'Old Pup"

Regarding the message Larry reposted requesting information on
a B-17F named "Ye 'Old Pup"....

I've posted a more detailed note to the original address, but thought
that it might be of general interest to the WWII-L also.  In brief:

The aircraft in question almost certainly did not belong to the
448th BG, as that was a B-24 group.  The 448th BG was based at
Seething, and flew their first mission on 22 December 1944.

The aircraft probably belonged to the 379th BG, as they were
based at Kimbolton from 20 May 1943 until after VE Day, flying
their first mission on 29 May 1942.  BTW, the 379th went on to
fly more sorties than any other group in the 8th AF, dropping
more tonnage, and suffering the lowest abort rate.  They were
credited with 10,492 sorties, losing 141 aircraft MIA.  One of
the group's B-17G's, named "Ole Gappy", flew 157 combat missions,
which is probably the most flown by an 8th AF B-17.  The group was
part of the 1st BD, and so carried a triangle, with a "K" on it.

The German pilot mentioned, Franz Stigler, was a "name", with his
career reasonably well documented.  I believe that he flew with
JG 3, JG 27, and with Galland's JV 44 Me 262 group.  I can check
to see which night fighter group he might have flown with also.
An all black Bf 109 would have been a little unusual, but not
unheard of, with the scheme more prevalent on Bf 110s, Ju 217s,
and the like.

I'll have to hit the books to check for reports/photos of the
incident and the aircraft involved.

Dennis E. Sparks
SPARKS@CAER.UKY.EDU
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 15:09:43 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 10 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 10 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  Liberator, Consolidated (RAF)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, the weather reconnaissance B-24 observes 4 unidentified
aircraft near Segula. Three B-25's, 17 P-40's, and 6 P-38's fly 5 attack
missions to Kiska, and negative searches for the unidentified airplanes at
Segula. The last mission finds Kiska closed in and returns with bombs.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Italy, B-24's bomb the harbor at Naples.
    In Sicily, RAF Liberators, under operation control of the IX Bomber
Command, hit Palermo.
    In Tunisia, Allied ground forces take Sfax and continue N to La Hencha.
    HQ IX Fighter Command is transferred from Egypt to Tripoli, Libya.
Personnel are to be moved from Egypt over a period of several weeks.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sardinia, B-17's hit ships at La Madallena.
    In Tunisia during the night of 9/10 Apr, Wellingtons bomb troops and
transport on roads in the area surrounding Enfidaville. The following day,
B-26's follow up the Wellingtons with raids on roads and military
concentrations near Enfidaville. Fighter-bombers also hit ground targets
in the Enfidaville areas. Fighters escort bombers, carry out reconnaissance,
and fly sweeps over the battle area from Medjez el Rah to Sousse.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomons, B-24's continue to fly harassing strikes as 3 of the
heavy bombers hit Kahili Airfield.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-17's and B-24's pound the town and dock area of Wewak.
Some of the B-17's also bomb Cape Boram and Kairiru Island while some of
the B-24's hit Alexishafen and shipping off Wewak. B-25's pound the harbors
at Bobia and Uligan. A lone B-17 strafes barges SE of Bogia and trucks at
Cape Croisilles while another bombs the airfield at Arawe.
  The 8th Bombardment Squadron (Dive), 3d Bombardment Group (Dive) with
A-20's transfers from Port Moresby, New Guinea to Dobodura, New Guinea.  On
25 May 43, the group and it's 4 squadrons will be redesignated Bombardment
Group/Squadron (Light) to reflect it's true mission.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 16:27:50 -0400
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <SPARKS@CAER.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: USAAF 10 APR 1943

A side note to an item listed in USAAF 10 APR 1943.....

Under the heading "EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN  (Ninth Air Force) was
this item:  In Tunisia, Allied ground forces take Sfax.....


Prior to this event, Gen. Montgomery had wagered Gen. Eisenhower
that his troops would take Sfax before the end of April.  When
he won the bet, he insisted as his payment a B-17 aircraft as his
personal transport.  Ike was reportedly somewhat miffed that
Monty would hold him to this, as the type was still in short
supply, but kept his word.  On 18 April, Montgomery took possession
of a B-17E, serial #41-9082.  Interestingly, the aircraft had
originally been built to fill a British order, but had been
taken over by the USAAF.  It was painted in an RAF-style camoflage
scheme of dark earth and green over light blue.  Montgomery kept the
aircraft for about six weeks before trading it in for a C-47.

The aircraft had once been part of the 97th BG, the first operational
8th AF B-17 group (first mission 17 August 1942).  After only a few
weeks, the 97th had traded aircraft with the 92nd BG, who had newer
B-17F-1s.  (The 92nd was not yet operational, serving as a combat
crew replacement center, or CCRC.)  The 97th was soon reassigned
to the 12th AF in N. Africa, taking the new "F"s with them.  The
older "E"s remained behind, being farmed out to various purposes as
they were replaced by newer models.  #19082 became a VIP transport,
frequently used by Gen. Spaatz.  The bomb bay doors were sealed,
and a large fuel tank installed in the right side of the bomb bay.
The left side had two overstuffed chairs, a small desk, and a lamp.
Ike presented it to Monty complete with a USAAF crew.  The pilot,
Lt. Frank Evans, who now lives in Idaho, provided me with some
of these details.

Dennis E. Sparks
SPARKS@CAER.UKY.EDU
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 20:58:35 EDT
From:    Jim Barr <ER676C@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Spruce Goose

     While not quite WWII info, I thought that some of the more aviation-minded
members of the list might be interested in a NYT article I found recently:
     (drawn from NYT, March 1, 1993 p. A13)

        "After Long, Tedious Journey, Spruce Goose Has New Home"

     The Spruce Goose, Howard Hughes' "monster flying boat" was moved from
Long Beach, CA to McMinnville, Oregon.  The plane will become a main attraction
at the Evergreen AirVenture Museum (scheduled to open in 1996).  The Spruce
Goose was constructed out of birch (hence the name "Spruce"?) and weighs 200
tons.  Hughes designed it during WWII to as a transport for soldiers and tanks.
It flew (with Hughes at the controls) in 1947 on November 2nd, for a mile at a
max height of 70 feet.  Afterwards, Hughes put the plane into storage, for some
(presumably) unknown reason.


    It should be noted that this pretty much covers the extent of my SG know-
ledge, so most questions would more likely be better answered by others on the
list.

                               A public service announcement from:
                               Jim Barr
                               er676c@gwuvm.bitnet
                               er676c@gwuvm.gwu.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 9 Apr 1993 21:48:00 EDT
From:    TOBY FENWICK <TFENWICK@MIDD.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Spruce Goose

Dear Jim,

        It was actually called the Hughes Kaiser 1 Hercules. It was produced by
Hughes and Kaiser who was in charge of the Liberty Ships, and this was to
replace the Liberty Ships, which at the time the SG was being designed were
going down at an horendous rate each month to the WolfPack. It was finished
after the war and Hughes was accused of embezzeling money from the government
and faced an enquiry by th esenate which showed that he poured his own money in
to the project. At the time an exapserated Senator seaid that it was never
going to fly and it was nothing but a Spruce Goose since it was made of
non-esstaintal materials.[ ie birch.] So there it is. He saved it 'cos he was
going to build an HK2 super SG with Turboprops like the Saunders-Roe Princess
of the 50's. It didn't happen. Ho hum. .

Hope this is of interest.

Cheers!

Toby

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 8 Apr 1993 to 9 Apr 1993
***********************************************

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There are 5 messages totalling 136 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. <No subject given> (2)
  2. Waffen SS and the Foreign Legion
  3. E-Mail address (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Apr 1993 14:36:10 -0400
From:    NNTP server account <usenet@CORANTO.UCS.MUN.CA>
Subject: <No subject given>

Newsgroups: mail.wwii-l
Path: kean.ucs.mun.ca!umcollins
From: umcollins@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Waffen SS and the Foreign Legion
Message-ID: <1993Apr10.160514.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca>
Lines: 5
Sender: usenet@news.ucs.mun.ca (NNTP server account)
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1993 18:35:14 GMT

I've heard stories about Foreign Legion units in Vietnam
being comprised almost entirley of former Waffen SS and/or
Wermacht troops. Anyone have any references to this?

Mike, Memorial University

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Apr 1993 15:26:50 EDT
From:    "M.A. Ramsay" <RAMSAY@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Waffen SS and the Foreign Legion

  Try looking at Douglas Porch's new history of the French Foreign Legion--the
exact title escapes me, but it something prosaic like _The History of the
French Foreign legion_.

   To give you a hint of what his answer will be, I asked him about this myth
at a symposium at Royal Military College, and he stated that the presence of
ex-German troops in Legion forces in Indo-China has been greatly exaggerated
in the popular mind.  The French specifically did NOT want men who would
exercise a claim to loyalty outside that of the Legion (and thereby to France).

   Perhaps this is another instance of the "Lost Cause" myth being attached to
the Germans by subsequent romantic views of their "noble" fight against the
Soviet Union, perhaps the left wanted to tar the French expeditionary forces
with the brush of racism and genocide.  I don't know and Porch did not say.
But he was emphatic about the myth of the Legion being a haven for ex-Germans
at any rate above the traditional representation in the Legion.

   Hope this helps.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
|     M.A. Ramsay--Queen's University (Ramsay@QUCDN.QueensU.CA)      |
|                                                                    |
|    English experience indicates that when two great political      |
|       parties agree about something, it is generally wrong.        |
|                                        G.K. Chesterton             |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 8 Apr 1993 07:42:00 -0400
From:    Kevin Kamphaus <USR5066A@CBOS.UC.EDU>
Subject: E-Mail address

WWII-L subscribers,

Please include your complete E-Mail address in the body of your postings. Our
system strips off the address at the top and replaces it with the list address.
If I want to respond personally to somone I can't.


Thanks,
Kevin Kamphaus
usr5066a@cbos.uc.edu
P.S. Where is the Imperial War Museum?

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Apr 1993 17:34:00 EDT
From:    TOBY FENWICK <TFENWICK@MIDD.BITNET>
Subject: Re: E-Mail address

The Imperial War Museum has three sites... RAF Duxford is the IWM air museum
and there two sites in London, the IMW itself and the teh HMS Belfast now
moored in the Pool of Lonodn next to Tower Bridge.

Cheers!

Toby

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 10 Apr 1993 20:40:27 CST
From:    Zel Eaton <AD04%NEMOMUS.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: <No subject given>

Mike, I have the reference you are looking for in my personal library.
DEVIL'S GUARD by George Robert Elford Paper back book first published in
the US by Delacorte Press 1971 first published in gREAT Britain by New
English Library 450 03754 1

In the forward the author indicates that he is basicly retelling the
story as told to him by Hans Josef Wagemueller who was an SS
Partisanjaeger (guerrilla hunter) who joined the French Foreign Legion
and served in Indochina.  Wagemueller is a name used by this man ie not
his real name.  The book is fascinating and well worth reading.  But,
you need a strong stomach.  This guy tells you how it was, in no
uncertain terms.

Hope this helps,

Zel Eaton
> Newsgroups: mail.wwii-l
> Path: kean.ucs.mun.ca!umcollins
> From: umcollins@kean.ucs.mun.ca
> Subject: Waffen SS and the Foreign Legion
> Message-ID: <1993Apr10.160514.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca>
> Lines: 5
> Sender: usenet@news.ucs.mun.ca (NNTP server account)
> Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1993 18:35:14 GMT
>
> I've heard stories about Foreign Legion units in Vietnam
> being comprised almost entirley of former Waffen SS and/or
> Wermacht troops. Anyone have any references to this?
>
> Mike, Memorial University



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
! Zel Eaton  (Bitnet) AD04@NEMOMUS (Portal) zel@cup.portal.com   !
!            (Internet) AD04%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU      !
!            (Voice) 816-665-1832 /\RCMA (MO-048) SHARKHUNTERS   !
!            INTERNATIONAL, Past Member Board of Dir. /\ CAF Col.!
!            #12855/\ "LOS NUMEROS" - ON LINE- Contributing Ed.  !
!            Me . . . I speak only for myself . . .              !
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 9 Apr 1993 to 10 Apr 1993
************************************************

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Status: O

There are 5 messages totalling 250 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. E-Mail address
  2. REF: French and German warships?
  3. French & German Battleships
  4. <No subject given>
  5. What is this thing?????????????

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Apr 1993 04:13:27 -0300
From:    Jay White <JWHITE@MTA.CA>
Subject: Re: E-Mail address

KK> Kevin Kamphaus
KK> usr5066a@cbos.uc.edu
KK> P.S. Where is the Imperial War Museum?

        Imperial War Museum
        Lambeth Road
        London,UK
        SE1 6HZ


cheers,
        Jay White
        (jwhite@mta.ca)
        Mount Allison University
        Sackville, NB  CANADA

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Apr 1993 17:14:30 EDT
From:    Robert E George <regeorge@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: REF: French and German warships?

I would appreciate any info (specifications, operational
histories, references, et cetera)  on these ships:

       [1] Ocean -- a French battleship operational in September 1939

       [2] Bearn -- a French a/c carrier operational early in 2nd World War

       [3] Mackensen -- German battleship or battlecruiser operational
                        late in 1st World War

Thanks in advance.

Robert George
(speaking only for myself)

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Apr 1993 17:16:55 MDT
From:    Steve Alvin <STEPHEN_ALVIN@DSU1.DSU.NODAK.EDU>
Subject: Re: French & German Battleships

> I would appreciate any info (specifications, operational
> histories, references, et cetera)  on these ships:
>
>        [1] Ocean -- a French battleship operational in September 1939

The Ocean was originally named the Jean Bart and was the second of
the Courbet Class of battleships.  She was laid down in 1910 and
commissioned in 1913.  With a designed displacement of 23,000 tons,
she was armed with 12 12" QFG L/45, 22 5.5" QFG L/55 in casemates and
4 450mm torpedo tubes.  In 1927/28 the torpedo tubes were removed and
five 75mm AA guns were added.  Her four Parson Turbines put out
28,000 shp and maximum speed achieved on trials was 22.6 knots.

During WWI the Jean Bart served mainly in the Mediterranean.  Early
in the war, 8/16/14 she and her sisters Courbet, France, and Paris
engaged and sank the Austrian cruiser Zenta.  A few months later, on
12/21/14 she was struck by several torpedos from the Austrian
submarine U-12 in the Straits of Otranto.  She arrived in Malta  with
over a 1,000 tons of water in the ship.  After the War she was part
of the allied intervention against Bolshviks Russia.  On 4/16/19 she
bombarded Odessa.

In the 1920's she underwent minor conversions and from 1931 on was a
training ship.  With the laying down of the new Richelieu class in
1937, the Jean Bart was renamed the Ocean to free her name for one of
the new battleships.

As far as I know, she saw no operational service in WWII and by the
armistice she was a stationary training ship and hulk in Toulon.  She
was scuttled with the rest of the French fleet on 11/27/42.  The
Germans used her for target practice and was damaged by allied bombs
during Allied air raids in 1944.  Shortly after the liberation of
Toulon, she was broken up and  scrapped.
>
>        [2] Bearn -- a French a/c carrier operational early in 2nd
World War

The Bearn was the fifth ship of the Normandie class of Battleships.
All five were laid down shortly before the outbreak of WWI and
construction on them was halted when the war broke out.  Work resume
on the Bearn in 1918, but initially only with the view of launching
her to clear the shipyards.  She was finally launched in 1920.  During
1920- 1921 various tests with aircraft were conducted on her
partially completed main deck.  The decision was made to convert her
to an aircraft carrier.  By 1927 the conversion was complete and the
Bearn was France's first aircraft carrier.  She carried 40
aircraft.  As a carrier she must have been considered a failure.  Her
engines could only produce enough shp to move her at 21.5 knots and
she lacked catapults.  In June 1940 she escaped to Martinique and was
demilitarized until 1943.  Then she was converted in New Orleans into
a aircraft transporter.  Her flight deck was shorten and modern anti-
aircraft guns were added.  After the war, she served off the coast of
French Indo-China until 1946.  In 1947 she became a training ship,
eventually a stationary hulk in Toulon.  In 1966 she was sold and in
1967 towed to Italy for scrapping.

>        [3] Mackensen -- German battleship or battlecruiser
>           operational late in 1st World War

The Mackensen was not completed in time to see service in WWI.  The
lead ship in a class of four battlecruisers, she was laid down in
January 1915 and was approx. 12 months from completion when the war
ended.  Her general design was a continuation of development
started with the Derfflinger class.  If completed she would have been
a formidable battlecruiser, armed with 8 350mm (13.75") QFG L/50
mounted in four turrets, 14 150mm QFG L/45 in casemates, 8 88mm A. A.
guns, and 5 600mm submerged torpedo tubes.  The maximum thickness of
her side armor was 300mm (in way of comparison, the Renown class of
battlecruisers, laid down at the same time, had a maximum side armor
of 152mm).  Her displacement was estimated to be about 30,500 tons
and her top speed was estimated at 27 knots.

After the war, it was proposed to convert her into a large oil
tanker powered by old submarine engines.  This option was abandoned,
however, and the hull was scrapped in 1923-24.

It has been suggested by some that the WWII battle crusiers
Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were nothing more than updated Mackensens.

I found all this information in Breyer, Siegfried:  Battleships and
Battle Cruisers, 1905-1970 Doubleday, 1973).

> Robert George
> (speaking only for myself)

Steve Alvin
STEPHEN_ALVIN@DSU1.DSU.NODAK.EDU

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Apr 1993 22:06:54 +0100
From:    Bob Smart <bsmart@VERDIX.COM>
Subject: <No subject given>

> Mike, I have the reference you are looking for in my personal library.
> DEVIL'S GUARD by George Robert Elford Paper back book first published in
> the US by Delacorte Press 1971 first published in gREAT Britain by New
> English Library 450 03754 1
>
> In the forward the author indicates that he is basicly retelling the
> story as told to him by Hans Josef Wagemueller who was an SS
> Partisanjaeger (guerrilla hunter) who joined the French Foreign Legion
> and served in Indochina.  Wagemueller is a name used by this man ie not
> his real name.  The book is fascinating and well worth reading.  But,
> you need a strong stomach.  This guy tells you how it was, in no
> uncertain terms.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Zel Eaton

I've got this book ( In paperback)  and have always felt that it had a very
high BS quotent.  I would love to get it either proved or disproved.

The 'Battalion of the damned' as he calls it lasted '1,243 days' and was
disbanded 700 days before Dien Bien Phu. Lets see that makes it sometime in '48
till mid '52, right? ( The dates are from the last page of the book.)

Some of Hans Josef Wagemueller's biography as listed in the intro
"When that was over [ 5 years in Indo China] he moved into a small Asian country
to train its token, archaic army in the intracacies of modern warfare and
the use of modern weapons. ... The head of state where he now lives has granted
him  citezenship. The local University has bestowed upon him the title Honarary
Professor of Military Sciences. He is now Hindu by religion and goes by a local
name. At the age of 64 he is still going strong"

Well 64 in 1970 ( book is copyrighted in 71) would make him 96 today.
I have a hard time accepting the 'This is the story as told to me by someone
who wants to remain anonynous' and by the way 'he wants his portion of the
royalties to go to the widows and orphans of those Americans who fell in
Vietnam'

Give me a break. Can anyone corraborate this account or do we write it off as
fantasy? I wish I had the time to check it out but work calls :-(

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Apr 1993 21:24:27 CST
From:    "AD16000@NEMOMUS.BITNET. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: What is this thing?????????????

I spent part of my Easter weekend in St. Louis, and found a really good
militaria store.  It is called Overlaord Military Collectables, located
at 3008 Woodson Road, St. Louis, MO 63114 (314-423-6644).  It has the
best WWII US uniform selection I've seen for sale outside of a
reenactment, and I purchased several items.  I got a pair of WWII
Officer's pink trousers, a pair of Khaki USA Suntan trousers that fit, a
1942 Army Officer's Guide, and a Navy Officer's Guide from 1943 (each
guide $12).  I am putting this impression of a USA officer for a USO
show at Jefferson Barracks, and I needed an overcoat/raincoat.
According to the Officer's Guide, raincoats were not an issue item, and
that commercial pattern raincoats were were acceptible, as long as they
were close in style and color.  I dug around and came up with a WWII era
rain/overcoat and bought it for $10.  The question I have now, is what
the heck is this thing???

It is a gabardine blend, knee length (trench coat).  The color is a
green, tan color---more light OD green than the pink trousers.  It is
double breasted with four buttons that are a brown/green like a US M-43
firld jacket.  It is belted, with two loops on the back, and a leather
covered open face buckle about 3" with a hasp in the middle.  It has epa
lauts, with some evidence of holes, however there is no evidence of any
sleeve insignia applied.  It has verticle opening pockets about 5" over
from the buttons, and located below the belt.  The collar lays flat,
with button holes on both lapels on the lower portion.  The pocket
opening flap is scalloped with a brown/green button, and there are wrist
straps with two buttons--one for normal, and one to tighten it up.  The
buttons are a plastic/sythetic.  The lining is an OD green satin, with a
verticle interior pocket on the left interior.  The only tag on it says
"Ritex Military Apparel, Criterion Mercery, 200 Pitt Street Sydney".
There are no tags in the pockets.  ALso, it has a right shoulder flap
like a hunting jacket would, secured with a button.

My digging thus far has surfaced that it looks just like a coat pictured
in the 1943 Navy Officer's Guide.  The picture is of an Ensign wearing
the Winter AviatorWorking Uniform (the green single breasted suit).  The
Ensign is wearing a jacket very similar, except that there are only
three rows of buttons on the pictured coat.  Also, if it were Navy, why
would it have Army type buttons.  The USN Officer's Guide doesn't
provide any info on the jacket in the picture.  Also, the Sydney
manufacture is a bit odd, unless there were tailors that jumped in the
uniform business to support US forces assigned there during WWII.  I
wonder if it is even US.  It is very obviously not a field garment.

I am really happy with it, because I got it cheap, and it will do very
nicely for what I want to do with it, but I still wonder, what it is?
Anybody got any ideas---especially you chaps in Australia.

Thanks in advance---Tim

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 10 Apr 1993 to 11 Apr 1993
*************************************************

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There are 11 messages totalling 481 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. USAAF 11 APR 43
  2. USAAF 12 APR 43
  3. What is this thing????????????? (4)
  4. Waffen SS and the Foreign Legion
  5. INFO: Italian Aces
  6. Handling Heavy List Traffic
  7. REF: U.S. Army in WWII
  8. Military Booksellers (cont.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 07:12:48 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 11 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SUNDAY, 11 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.ed in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, 4 B-25's, 22 P-40's, and 8 P-38's hit Kiska 5 times.
The last mission aborts due to weather. The  other 4 missions bomb various
targets starting large fires. Some fighters strafe Little Kiska.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Italy, B-24's attack Naples harbor. AA is intense and fighters
attack B-24's from all sides, knocking 1 down. The B-24's claim destruction
of 3 fighters.
    In Tunisia, B-25's attack motor transport and concentrations N of Sfax
as Allied ground troops push toward Sousse.
    HQ 340th Bombardment Group (Medium) and it's 486th and 487th Bombardment
Squadrons (Medium) with B-25C's transfer from El Kabrit, Egypt to Medenine,
Tunisia.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sardinia during the night of 10/11 Apr, Wellingtons bomb airfields
at Decimomannu and Monserrato.
    In Sicily, B-17's strike the harbors of Marsala and Trapani.
    In Tunisia, P-38's carry out fighter sweeps and reconnaissance flights,
claiming numerous aircraft shot down, including 21 transports destroyed
between Cap Bon and Marsala. B-26's bomb Oudna Airfield, B-25's hit
Sainte-Marie du Zit Airfield, and B-17's strike the harbor of Tunis.
Fighter-bombers and light bombers blast trucks S of the Enfidaville road,
trucks E of Kairouan, the Sousse docks, and numerous other targets in the
NE quarter of Tunisia.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomons, P-38's and Navy fighters strafe gun positions in the
Rekata Bay area. B-17's bomb airfields at Kahili and on Ballale Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-17's bomb Lae and Finschhafen. Single B-24's bomb
Finschhafen 3 times and hit Madang once. Enemy airplanes attack Oro Bay and
destroy 2 merchant vessels.
  In Timor, B-25's hit Vila Salazar and another village.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 07:17:09 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 12 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
MONDAY, 12 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  Liberator, Consolidated (RAF)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-51, North American Mustang
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

   ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force)
     In the Aleutians, 3 B-25's, 24 P-40's, and 13 P-38's fly 7 missions to
Kiska. The fighters also strafe Little Kiska. AA fire damages 1 P-40 and 1
P-38. The P-38 force-lands safely.

   AAF ANTISUBMARINE COMMAND
     The 6th Antisubmarine Squadron (Heavy), 25th Antisubmarine Wing
arrives at Gander Lake, Newfoundland, Canada from the U.S. with B-24's.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 9 B-25's hit the airfield at Magwe. P-40's bomb and strafe
the ammunition and supply dump at Walawbum.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force)
    In Burma, P-40's strafe more than 20 vehicles 25 mi (40 km) E of
Loiwing.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  In England, a Board of 5 officers of the Eighth Air Force and 1 of the
Royal Air Force complete formulation of a plan for the Combined Bomber
Offensive (CBO) from the United Kingdom in accordance with the mission
prescribed by the Combined Chiefs of Staff (CCS) in the Casablanca
Directive.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Italy, B-24's of the 376th Bombardment Group (Heavy) sent to attack
Naples harbor, are prevented by bad weather from bombing the primary
target. About half return without bombing while the others hit Cosenza and
Crotone. Other heavy bombers of the same group, in a subsequent mission,
bomb Naples and the secondary target of Pizzo.
    In Sicily, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, are dispatched against Palermo. The primary target is attacked, in
spite of total cloud cover, but most of bomb tonnage is dropped in Messina,
Italy harbor.
    In ground action in Tunisia, the British 10 Corps captures Sousse and
heads north.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sicily, B-17's bomb the harbor at Trapani and hit shipping in the
Straits of Sicily.
    In Tunisia, B-17's bomb the harbor at Bizerte. B-25's and A-20's bomb
airfields at Oudna and Sainte-Made du Zit. Aircraft of tactical units hit
enemy movements and fly sweep and reconnaissance throughout NE Tunisia
following the attack during the night of 11/12 Apr by British aircraft,
mainly in the Enfidaville, Zaghouan, and Bou Ficha areas.
    HQ 31st Fighter Group and it's 307th, 308th and 309th Fighter Squadrons
with Spitfires transfer from Djilma, Tunisia to Le Sers, Tunisia.
    HQ 33d Fighter Group and it's 59th and 60th Fighter Squadrons with P-
40's transfer from Berteaux, Algeria to Ebba Ksour, Tunisia. The 59th has
been operating from Thelepte, Tunisia since 20 Mar.
    The 2d, 4th and 5th Fighter Squadrons, 52d Fighter Group with Spitfires
transfer from Youks-les-Bains, Algeria to Le Sers, Tunisia.
    The 154th Observation Squadron, 68th Observation Group with P-39's and
P-51's transfers from Sbeitla, Tunisia to Le Sers, Tunisia.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomons, single B-24's continue snooper strikes, hitting Kahili
Airfield twice during the evening.
  The 68th Fighter Squadron, 347th Fighter Group with P-40's (and some P-
39's) transfers from Guadalcanal to Fiji but continues to operate from
Guadalcanal until Dec 43.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-24's and B-17's pound the airfields at
Rabaul and Gasmata, shipping in the Saint George Channel, and targets of
opportunity in the Ubili and Talasea areas.
  In New Guinea, B-24's and B-17s hit shipping in Hansa Bay, the airfields
at Lae and Nubia and Bogia harbor. B-24's, operating individually, attack
several targets, scoring hits on the Madang dock area and at Toeal.
Japanese planes attack Port Moresby.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 07:48:08 CST
From:    "AD16000@NEMOMUS.BITNET. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: What is this thing?????????????

Let me add some more details I found from digging last night.  It looks
just like a M-1943 Officer's Long Field Coat, except there is no obvious
way to button completely up, the extra row of buttons, and the material
is not a field grade--it is a high quality wool blend that would get
ripped to shreds in the field.  It looks a lot like the ones in the
pictures in Shelby Stanton's US Army Uniforms of WWII book.  The mystery
continues.

Also, I am looking for a Chocolate Brown Four pocket US Army ground
forces dress blouse, size 42L, to 44L.  If anyone knows of any for sale,
please contact me direct--thanks.  I tried on 8 at Overlord Military
Collectables, and none fit.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 23:44:40 +1000
From:    Ray Fairall <ASRGF@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: What is this thing?????????????

 I have no idea what your coat is, but Pitt Street is the second "major"
street in the Sydney CBD. Can you repost the tailors name, it is highly
unlikely that it still exists, but I can check the telephone directory.

On a general note Australian Industry played a significant role in supplying
war materials for the U.S. effort during the war in the S.W. Pacific. This
applied to things like aircraft engines, maintainence of aircraft and ships,
and the supply of food. I would be very surprised if clothing was not also
included. We are still one of the world's largest suppliers of wool!
Australia ended the war with it's lend lease "account" in the black because
of this contrubution. Regards Ray.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 12:05:11 EDT
From:    "William B. Thacker" <wbt@CBEMF.ATT.COM>
Subject: Re: Waffen SS and the Foreign Legion

M.A. Ramsay writes:

>    To give you a hint of what his answer will be, I asked him about this myth
> at a symposium at Royal Military College, and he stated that the presence of
> ex-German troops in Legion forces in Indo-China has been greatly exaggerated
>
>    Perhaps this is another instance of the "Lost Cause" myth being attached to
> the Germans by subsequent romantic views of their "noble" fight against the
> Soviet Union, perhaps the left wanted to tar the French expeditionary forces
> with the brush of racism and genocide.

Either could be true, but it seems to me that a less conspiracy-oriented
reason is evident.

I've read accounts of Wehrmacht officers and soldiers who claim to have
been "vigorously" lobbied to join the Foreign Legion.  With the Legion's
reputation as a place to escape the past, it's just a matter of putting two
and two together... if *I* were a war criminal (or simply a German soldier
who wanted to get away from the stigma of defeat) and the FFL asked me to
join, I'd be likely to accept.

Perhaps it wasn't particularly widespread, but it's so obvious as to become
a self-perpetuating legend.  It's especially enticing because of the
mystery surrounding the death of Hitler and the escape of many high-ranking
Nazi officials (and Israel's ongoing search for them).  If "Ivan the
Terrible" was supposedly found living in Cleveland, it takes no great leap
of imagination to suppose many other criminals may have escaped to the
Foreign Legion.

Compare, for instance, this legend with the common legend that so many
Nazis escaped to South America that there are now villages there where
German is the primary language.  I don't see this as an attempt to glorify
Germany or attack South America; it's just juicy gossip.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker             AT&T Network Systems       attmail!att!cbemf!wbt
Quality Engineer            Columbus, Ohio              wbt@cbemf.att.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 11:57:38 -0400
From:    "M. Joseph Barone" <m1b@RAYSSD.SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: INFO: Italian Aces

> The following are usually listed as the top five fighter aces
> of the Italian Air Force in WWII:
>
> Major Adriano Visconti
> Sg. Maj Teresio Martinoli
> Lt. Leonardo Ferulli
> Cpt. Franco Bardoni-Bisleri
> Sgt. Luigi Corrini
>
> I would like any biographical information on any or all of the
> above.  I am looking for unit affiliations, the fronts on which
> they fought, types of aircraft flown, current location or date
> of death, personal achievements, etc.

        Some of the most successful Italian fighter aces of the war served
with 4th Stormo C.T.  Several were killed during the defense of Sicily,
but one who survived and went on to the end of the war as one of the two
top-scorers was Capitano Adriano Visconti.  He flew MC.202s, MC.205s, and
Bf 109Gs.

        He is credited with 19 victories with the Regia Aeronautica.
Immediately after the Armistice, he led a flight of MC.205Vs to Guidonia
airport near Rome, to escape the German encirclement of Italian airfields
on Sardinia.  His three MC.205V fighters carried eight groundcrewmen in
addition to the three pilots.  He later commanded the 1st Gruppo Caccia
for the Aeronautica Nazionale Republicana (ANR) of the Republica Sociale
Italiana in Northern Italy.  He added seven more kills during 1944.  Because
of a high attrition rate and battle fatigue, 1st Gruppo Caccia experienced
a severe decay in morale, which led to Capitano Visconti being relieved of
command late June 1944.  His successor, Capitano Arrabito, was killed in
July and command of the 1st was returned to Capitano Visconti.  In November
1944, the 1st was sent to Germany to train with Bf 109Gs and returned to
Italy in January 1945 equipped with 54 Bf 109G-10s.  It was during this
period that Visconti was promoted to Maggiore.

        He was killed by left wing Italian partisans in Milan on April 29,
1945.

        4th Stormo C.T. of the Regia Aeronautica consisted of 9th and 10th
Gruppi and saw action over Malta, Libya, and defending Sicily.  The 4th was
considered the elite and received the best equipment Italy had to offer.
The Stormo's first action was over Malta with MC.202 fighters which proved
to be more than a match for the Hurricanes defending the island.  All
Italian formations in Africa suffered greatly from fuel shortages and
lack of spare parts and consequently saw much less action than their
German counterparts and much of their equipment was destroyed on the
ground.  During the invasion of Sicily, 4th Stormo, now equipped with
MC.205s, and 21st Stormo, equipped with MC.202s, were down to an effective
strength of 20 aircraft (again, most of the attrition was caused on the
ground).

        I could not find any mention of the other aces in the few
references at my disposal.
--
Joe Barone
m1b@rayssd.ssd.ray.com
Look, when we was in the bocage country, we was assaulted by them Tigers!
You know what I mean by assaulted, hunh?!  Well, I mean assaulted!!

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 16:12:41 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Handling Heavy List Traffic

When the traffic on the list gets to heavy, you can reduce it to one
mailing a day by sending the following command:

set wwii-l digest

Send this to

listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

You can also use this address to unsubscribe to the list if you're going
off the net for the summer.  If you are going off temporarily, you can
prevent conspitated mailboxes by sending:

set wwii-l nomail

And you can send

set wwii-l mail

to restart the mail.

I get an error message from each bad address for each message sent to the list.
This has been as high as 275 per day at the end of one semester of school.
This type of situation makes for a very cranky listowner.

Larry J

#L.W. Jewell Moderator at the Veterans Information Site (veteran@cc.purdue.edu)#
#& WWII-L Listowner: "Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange,#
#sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all   #
#phases of life." "Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41  #

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 18:46:50 EDT
From:    Michael Cotter <LBCOTTER@ECUVM1.BITNET>
Subject: Re: What is this thing?????????????

Tim, You're on to a trail that is similar to a student of ours last semester,
who hoped to write his term paper on the history of the uniform that he bought
in a local thrift shop.  When I last saw him, he had found out the person's
rank and date of retirement and was looking in the WWII history of the
Quartermaster Corps to learn about procurement policies and manufacturing
practices for Army uniforms.  We also found information in Congressional
hearings about military procurement.  Wonder what he finally came up with....

Michael Cotter
Documents Librarian
Joyner Library
East Carolina University
Greenville NC 27858
919/757-6533

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 20:10:13 EDT
From:    Michael Cotter <LBCOTTER@ECUVM1.BITNET>
Subject: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

Just received in the U. S. government depository section in our library:

United States Army in World War II: Reader's Guide.  Compiled and edited by
Richard D. Adamcyzk and Morris J. MacGregor.  Washington, DC: United States
Army Center of Military History, 1992.  Purchase information from Government
Printing Office, Stock No. 008-029-00251-5, $10.00 USA; $12.50 foreign;
ISBN 0-16-037817-6.  173 pp., paper.   SuDocs class no.: D 114.7/2:992

This is a thorough description of the contents of each of the volumes in the
_United States Army in World War II_ series, with a page or two describing
each volume, its contents, and the subjects covered therein.  The annotations
are also written to put each volume (and the subject it covers) in perspective
to the war effort.

Note: I'm listing this now, even though it may appear later in Larry's file of
publications from the U. S. government; I think that it's worthwhile enough
to deserve a separate listing.

USE YOUR DEPOSITORY LIBRARY!  YOUR TAXES AT WORK!!

Michael Cotter
Documents Librarian
Joyner Library
East Carolina University
Greenville NC 27858
919/757-6533

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 19:26:11 CST
From:    "AD16000@NEMOMUS.BITNET. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: What is this thing?????????????

The labels in the jacket say "RITEX Military Apparel, Criterion Mercery,
200 Pitt Street, Sydney"---Thanks in advance--Tim

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 20:25:40 EDT
From:    Michael Cotter <LBCOTTER@ECUVM1.BITNET>
Subject: Military Booksellers (cont.)

On March 25, 1993, Larry Jewell posted a list of Military Booksellers.  Here
are two booksellers or publishers who have issued lists in the past year:

Stanley Kramer Books, "Military History," Winter 1992. (Mail Order Book Service
11910-U Parklawn Drive, Rockville MD 20852)  800/423-BOOK

Books from various publishers.  Annotations written by Kramer's staff.

Garland Publishing Co., "New and Recent Books in Military Studies," 1991/92.
(Garland Publishing, 1000A Sherman Avenue, Hamden CT 06514)  800/627-6273

Books published by Garland.  Includes documentary collections, such as American
Concentration Camps; Tokyo War Crimes Trial; Covert Warfare; America's Plans
for War Against the Soviet Union, 1945-1950; the Holocaust.  Also includes
some PhD dissertations (not necessarily recent).

Michael Cotter
Documents Librarian
Joyner Library
East Carolina University
Greenville NC 27858
919/757-6533

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 11 Apr 1993 to 12 Apr 1993
*************************************************

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Status: O

There are 5 messages totalling 163 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. U of London Members
  2. German Democracy
  3. What is this thing?????????????
  4. USAAF 13 APR 43
  5. REF: U.S. Army in WWII

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Apr 1993 23:48:00 CDT
From:    Shawn Robert Woodford <HAL9000@KSUVM.BITNET>
Subject: U of London Members

Dear List Members:  I have been accepted by the Department of War Studies at
King's College, University of London to do my Ph.D.  Is there anyone out there
who is in this program, college, university?  I would like to get in touch with
you.  Please respond directly to me at HAL9000@KSUVM.BITNET.


Best Wishes--Shawn Robert Woodford, Kansas State University

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Apr 1993 09:29:00 CET
From:    Fred van Wetten DBA/CRI <CRIPFW@RULMVS.LEIDENUNIV.NL>
Subject: Re: German Democracy

Talking about Western Europe !

Fred

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Apr 1993 06:00:15 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <hb9388@USMA6.USMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: What is this thing?????????????

Tim,

With regards to your query about the overcoat you have:

Try Shelby Stanton's "US Army Uniforms of World War II".  I think there
are a bunch of pictures of your coat on pages 176-179.  Your description makes
it sound like the M1943 Officer's Long Field Overcoat (they could also be
privately purchased - p.177).

Hope this helps.

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Apr 1993 07:09:33 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 13 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 13 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in
pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, 15 B-24's, 15 B-25's, 28 P-38's and 20 P-40's fly 11
attacks to Kiska; 43 tons of bombs are dropped on the Main Camp, North
Head, and runway. Fighters attack the Main Camp causing large fires, and
also strafe aircraft on the beach. Heavy AA fire damages 2 P-38's, 1 of
which later crashes into the sea, and 1 B-25.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 9 B-25's bomb the Myitnge bridge without inflicting further
damage to the structure. Nine others hit Monywa Airfield. Six P-40's knock
out a bridge at Shaduzup.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Sicily, B-24's are dispatched against the harbor at Catania. Total
cloud cover prevents visual contact with the target. One drops bombs in the
target area, but others jettison their load or return to base without
bombing.
    In the Mediterranean, P-40's fly convoy escort.
    In Tunisia, the British Eight Army's 10 Corps, continuing N reaches an
anti-tank ditch guarding new enemy positions at Enfidaville and
unsuccessfully attempts, on a limited scale, to force a retreat before the
line can be strengthened.
    The 488th and 489th Bombardment Squadrons (Medium), 340th Bombardment
Group (Medium) with B-25's transfer from El Kabrit, Egypt to Medenine,
Tunisia.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sicily, B-17's pound the airfields at Castelvetrano and Milo.
    In Sardinia, P-38's bomb a cruiser at La Maddalena and other shipping
at Porto Torres.
    In Tunisia,  B-25's hit Oudna Airfield. Fighters maintain sweeps and
armored reconnaissance over NE Tunisia and the Straits of Sicily. During
the night of 12/13 Mar, British airplanes bomb Megrine landing ground.
    HQ 47th Bombardment Group (Light) and it's 84th Bombardment Squadron
(Light) with A-20's transfer from Thelepte, Tunisia to Souk-el-Arba,
Tunisia.
    The 58th Fighter Squadron, 33d Fighter Group with P-40's transfers from
Berteaux, Algeria to Ebba Ksour, Tunisia.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomons, P-38's and Navy aircraft bomb the airfield at Munda and
strafe a barge at Bambatana

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, A-20's bomb and strafe the Labiabi area while a single
B-l7 bombs the runway at Finschhafen.

 SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air
Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945
by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN
1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Apr 1993 12:50:51 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

>
> Note: I'm listing this now, even though it may appear later in Larry's file of
> publications from the U. S. government; I think that it's worthwhile enough
> to deserve a separate listing.

Far better to have two copies than none :-)!  My database will be for 1992
and before so everyone please post new infromation as you get it.

I'll be updating the database yearly or as the CD-ROMs are released by GPO.

> USE YOUR DEPOSITORY LIBRARY!  YOUR TAXES AT WORK!!

> Michael Cotter
> Documents Librarian
> Joyner Library
> East Carolina University
> Greenville NC 27858
> 919/757-6533

Larry J

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 12 Apr 1993 to 13 Apr 1993
*************************************************

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There are 3 messages totalling 159 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. USAAF 14 APR 43
  2. Digesting WWII-L Mail
  3. REF: U.S. Army in WWII

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Apr 1993 07:22:31 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 14 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 14 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in
pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  Betty, Mitsubishi G4M, Navy Type 1 Attack Bomber
  Blenheim, Bristol (RAF)
  Hurricane, Hawker (RAF)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS
  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force)
    30 P-40's, 17 P-38's, 9 B-24's and 6 B-25's fly 10 missions to Kiska,
bombing and strafing the runway, North Head area, installations, parked
seaplanes, and facilities on Little Kiska.

  ZONE OF INTERIOR (HQ USAAF)
     The Weather Wing is activated at Asheville, North Carolina to provide
scientific weather information for the USAAF and the rest of the Army. This
new wing assumes responsibility from HQ USAAF for the supervision of the
Army Air Forces Weather Service which was established in 1937.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, P-40's dropping 1,000 pound (454 kg) bombs, hit airfields at
Myitkyina and Manywet, rendering the runways at both unusable.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force)
    In China, P-40's strafe pack horses S of Tengchung, barracks and
warehouses in Lungling, and cattle and trucks N of Lungling.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Tunisia, P-40's fly convoy escort, and carry out fighter sweeps over
the battle area as the British Eighth Army's 10 Corps continues to make
quick jabs at positions at Enfidaville. These attempts to force an enemy
retreat are unsuccessful.
    The 314th, 315th and 316th Fighter Squadrons, 324th Fighter Group with
P-40's transfer from Libya to Tunisia.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sardinia, B-17's bomb the Elmas and Monserrato Airfields.
    In Tunisia during the night of 13/14 Apr, Northwest African Tactical
Air Force (NATAF) Hurricanes and Blenheims bomb La Sebala Airfield and
attack transport on the Tunis-Pont-du-Fahs road, and Western Desert Air
Force (WDAF) light and medium bombers hit the Airfields at Sainte-Marie du
Zit and Korba. During the day, B-17's bomb El Aouina Airfield. P-38's
escort the heavy bombers and fly a bombing and strafing mission against a
beached vessel SE of Cape Zebib. A-20's bomb Bordj Toum. Fighter-bombers
hit a motor convoy near Grich el Oued and trucks NE of Dechret Ben Saidane
and a battery E of Djedeida. Fighters fly reconnaissance and sweeps
throughout the Tunisian battle area. Northwest African Coastal Air Force
(NACAF) planes maintain sea reconnaissance and patrols.
    HQ 52d Fighter Group transfers from Youks-les-Bains, Algeria to Le
Sers, Tunisia.
    The 441st, 442d and 444th Bombardment Squadrons (Medium), 320th
Bombardment Group (Medium) with B-26B's transfer from Tafaraoui, Algeria to
Montesquieu, Algeria.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, heavy and medium bombers carry out widespread but
unsuccessful attacks on individual enemy vessels. Japanese aircraft carry
out a heavy attack on the Milne Bay area, severely damaging 1 vessel,
beaching 1 vessel, and hitting 2 others, but doing very little damage to
USAAF facilities in the area. AA defenses and the 40+ P-40's and P-38's
that intercept the enemy strike claim 14 airplanes shot down.
  Dick Bong becomes a Double Ace when he gets his 10th kill, a Betty.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air
Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945
by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN
1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Apr 1993 07:39:21 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Digesting WWII-L Mail

One thing I forgot to mention about digesting the list's mail is that
you can restore continous service by sending

set wwii-l mail

to the listserver.

It's also the time of year when I ask that those who are leaving the list
for the summer to be sure and unsubscribe the list.  Send the command

unsubscribe wwii-l

to

listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

and have a nice summer (I will be doing Pysch AND Sociology courses :-(.

Larry J

BTW, if all else fails, send a note to me or the list and I'll unsubscribe
you, but only if all else fails, please.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Apr 1993 22:13:48 -0400
From:    Bob Smart <bsmart@VERDIX.COM>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

> Just received in the U. S. government depository section in our library:
>
> United States Army in World War II: Reader's Guide.  Compiled and edited by
> Richard D. Adamcyzk and Morris J. MacGregor.  Washington, DC: United States
> Army Center of Military History, 1992.  Purchase information from Government
> Printing Office, Stock No. 008-029-00251-5, $10.00 USA; $12.50 foreign;
> ISBN 0-16-037817-6.  173 pp., paper.   SuDocs class no.: D 114.7/2:992
>
> This is a thorough description of the contents of each of the volumes in the
> _United States Army in World War II_ series, with a page or two describing

Are these still available from the GPO? where do I send for a current list of
the ones that are in print?

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 13 Apr 1993 to 14 Apr 1993
*************************************************

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Status: O

There are 7 messages totalling 419 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. REF: U.S. Army in WWII (4)
  2. INFO: Italian Aces
  3. USAAF 15 APR 43
  4. Airshows

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Apr 1993 00:10:56 EDT
From:    Sam Fletcher <ZI907C@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

>> Just received in the U. S. government depository section in our library:
>>
>> United States Army in World War II: Reader's Guide.  Compiled and edited by
>> Richard D. Adamcyzk and Morris J. MacGregor.  Washington, DC: United States
>> Army Center of Military History, 1992.  Purchase information from Government
>> Printing Office, Stock No. 008-029-00251-5, $10.00 USA; $12.50 foreign;
>> ISBN 0-16-037817-6.  173 pp., paper.   SuDocs class no.: D 114.7/2:992
>>
>> This is a thorough description of the contents of each of the volumes in the
>> _United States Army in World War II_ series, with a page or two describing

>Are these still available from the GPO? where do I send for a current list of
>the ones that are in print?

>Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

Aha!!!  Something I can actually speak about with confidence and knowledge:).
a list of military documents/books is available via anon. ftp from
Byrd.mu.wvnet.edu in the pub/history/military/wwii directory.  I received the
file (gpo_wwii.text) myself and I must warn you that it has a record length
of about 3000.  I've yet to order anything, but I'm rather curious as to
how one goes about it and how much it would cost.  Does anybody know if I
could just walk into the Wash. GPO and ask for the text or do you have to
order it?  Silly question, I know, but I'm curious.

BTW, if anyone would be interested in reading a paper on the courts of the
Third Reich written by myself, a budding historian looking for a research
assistantship for the summer (rush your offers of full-time employment to
me personally:-)), by all means, e-mail me and I'll see what I can do.
Obviously it's not _The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich_, but it's mine
and that's all that counts!

Samuel A. Fletcher
zi907c@gwuvm.gwu.edu

P.S. Seriously, folks, if anyone knows of somebody looking for help for the
summer, I'd be obliged if you'd hand out my name.  Sorry for the advertisement.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Apr 1993 22:15:31 -0400
From:    "M. Joseph Barone" <m1b@RAYSSD.SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: INFO: Italian Aces

[I sent this a few days ago and never received it, so I am assuming that
it was lost.  If it's a duplicate, I apologize, but it has given me a chance
to add a few more details. -Joe]

> The following are usually listed as the top five fighter aces
> of the Italian Air Force in WWII:
>
> Major Adriano Visconti
> Sg. Maj Teresio Martinoli
> Lt. Leonardo Ferulli
> Cpt. Franco Bardoni-Bisleri
> Sgt. Luigi Corrini
>
> I would like any biographical information on any or all of the
> above.  I am looking for unit affiliations, the fronts on which
> they fought, types of aircraft flown, current location or date
> of death, personal achievements, etc.

        Some of the most successful Italian fighter aces of the war served
with 4th Stormo C.T. of the Regia Aeronautica.  Several were killed during
the defense of Sicily, but one who survived and went on to the end of the
war as one of the two top-scorers was Capitano Adriano Visconti.  He flew
MC.202s, MC.205s, and Bf 109Gs.

        He is credited with 19 victories with the Regia Aeronautica.
Immediately after the Armistice, he led a flight of MC.205Vs to Guidonia
airport near Rome, to escape the German encirclement of Italian airfields
on Sardinia.  His three single-seat MC.205V fighters carried eight
groundcrewmen in addition to the three pilots!  He later commanded the
1st Gruppo Caccia for the Aeronautica Nazionale Republicana (ANR) of
the Republica Sociale Italiana (RSI) in Northern Italy.  He added seven
more kills during 1944.  Because of a high attrition rate and battle
fatigue, 1st Gruppo Caccia experienced a severe decay in morale, which
led to Capitano Visconti being relieved of command late June 1944.  His
successor, Capitano Arrabito, was killed in July and command of the
1st was returned to Capitano Visconti.  When the Germans attempted to
integrate the ANR into the Luftwaffe, 1st Gruppo Caccia burned and
destroyed their aircraft rather than serve under the Germans.  (2nd
Gruppo Caccia drew weapons on their allies and escorted them off of
the airfield!)  Since 1st Gruppo Caccia did not have any aircraft as
a result of these actions, in November 1944, the 1st was sent to
Germany to train with Bf 109Gs and returned to Italy in January 1945
equipped with 54 Bf 109G-10s.  It was during this period that Visconti
was promoted to Maggiore.

        He was killed by left wing Italian partisans in Milan on April 29,
1945.

        4th Stormo C.T. of the Regia Aeronautica consisted of 9th and 10th
Gruppi and saw action over Malta, Libya, and defending Sicily.  The 4th was
considered the elite and received the best equipment Italy had to offer.
The Stormo's first action was over Malta with MC.202 fighters which proved
to be more than a match for the Hurricanes defending the island.  In Africa,
all Italian formations suffered greatly from fuel shortages and lack of spare
parts and consequently saw much less action than their German counterparts
and much of their equipment was destroyed on the ground.  During the invasion
of Sicily, 4th Stormo, now equipped with MC.205s, and 21st Stormo, equipped
with MC.202s, were down to an effective strength of 20 aircraft (again, most
of the attrition was caused on the ground).

        I could not find any mention of the other aces in the few
references at my disposal.
--
Joe Barone
m1b@rayssd.ssd.ray.com
Look, when we was in the bocage country, we was assaulted by them Tigers!
You know what I mean by assaulted, hunh?!  Well, I mean assaulted!!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Apr 1993 07:13:54 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 15 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 15 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in
pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, reconnaissance over Kiska, Attu, Semichis, and Agattu
spots no new enemy activities. Two bomber missions from Adak and 11 fighter
missions from Amchitka, composed of 23 B-24's, 20 B-25's, 25 P-38's, and 44
P-40's, hit Kiska; 1 F-5A takes photos; 85 tons of bombs are dropped. Fires
result on North Head and Little Kiska. One B-24 is shot down in flames and
4 bombers receive battle damage.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 10 B-25's bomb the Mandalay Marshaling Yard; 9 more bomb the
marshaling yard at Ywataung. Eight B-24's hit the Thilawa oil refinery
while 7 others hit Prome.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Italy, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, hit Naples and Messina.
    In Sicily, B-24's attack Catania and Palermo.
    In Tunisia, B-25's hit the airfield and area near a fuel dump at
Sainte-Marie du Zit. P-40's fly reconnaissance and sea patrol.
    HQ 12th Bombardment Group (Medium) transfers from Medenine, Tunisia to
Sfax, Tunisia.
    The 515th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 376th Bombardment Group (Heavy)
with B-24D's transfers from Soluch, Libya to Bengasi, Libya.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Italy, Northwest African Coastal Air Force (NACAF) B-26's on armed
reconnaissance of the Naples area attack a vessel S of Ustica Island.
    In Sardinia, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) Wellingtons
bomb Decimomannu, Villacidro, and Elmas Airfields during the night of 14/15
Apr.
    In Tunisia, Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF) fighters
attack tanks and trucks at Oum EL Djema and a concentration near Sidi
Ahmed, while others fly reconnaissance and patrols during the day.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  The 390th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 42d Bombardment Group (Medium)
with B-25's arrives on Guadalcanal from the U.S.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-17's bomb the airfields at Rabaul and
Gasmata.
  In New Guinea, B-17's bomb the airfield at Lae.
  The 7th and 8th Fighter Squadrons, 49th Fighter Group with P-40's
transfer from Port Moresby, New Guinea to Dobodura, New Guinea.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air
Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945
by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN
1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Apr 1993 06:24:55 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

> Aha!!!  Something I can actually speak about with confidence and knowledge:).
> a list of military documents/books is available via anon. ftp from
> Byrd.mu.wvnet.edu in the pub/history/military/wwii directory.  I received the
> file (gpo_wwii.text) myself and I must warn you that it has a record length
> of about 3000.  I've yet to order anything, but I'm rather curious as to
> how one goes about it and how much it would cost.  Does anybody know if I
> could just walk into the Wash. GPO and ask for the text or do you have to
> order it?  Silly question, I know, but I'm curious.


  The Government Printing Office's mailing address is
  North Capitol and G. Streets
  Washington DC.
  NW 20502

  For information you can phone
  (202) 274-3648
  For orders, phone
  (202) 783-3238

   There are regional GPO offices and they may or may not have what you're
interested in buying "on the shelf."

  Thanks for the nice comments about the gpo_wwii file, I put a lot of work
into it.  The final version will be much more readable and be accompanied
by a database-friendly version.

> BTW, if anyone would be interested in reading a paper on the courts of the
> Third Reich written by myself, a budding historian looking for a research
> assistantship for the summer (rush your offers of full-time employment to
> me personally:-)), by all means, e-mail me and I'll see what I can do.
> Obviously it's not _The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich_, but it's mine
> and that's all that counts!

  You can upload a copy to "byrd" and Mike McCarthy will review and put it
in the correct directory if it meets the requirements for the site.  (NOt
a commentary on your paper, just that Mike screens everything that comes
into the site for historical interest.
   Mike is always looking for contributions, and I'm very interested in seeing
the site get non-U.S.A. documents, since I live in a corn field in Indiana
and have damn little access to the Imperial War Museum or the like :-).

> Samuel A. Fletcher
> zi907c@gwuvm.gwu.edu
>
> P.S. Seriously, folks, if anyone knows of somebody looking for help for the
> summer, I'd be obliged if you'd hand out my name.  Sorry for the advertisement.
>
Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Apr 1993 07:37:56 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: Airshows

          AIRSHOWS IN THE NORTHEASTERN UNITED STATES, 1993
                     ISSUE 1, APRIL 15, 1993

This is the latest list of airshows in the Northeastern U.S. that I have
been able to compose.  The list is sorted by state and any military aerobatic
or parachute team appearing is noted.  Also noted is any known telephone
numbers; please call the telephone number listed for further information.
I will gladly update this list with any additions, changes and/or
deletions.  Just e-mail me at jem3@cc.bellcore.com


CONNECTICUT
-----------
Meriden: August 29 (203-238-1911)

DELAWARE
--------
Nothing listed

MAINE
-----
Bingham: September 24-26 (207-672-4135)
NAS Brunswick: Golden Knights, July 24-25 (207-921-2527)

MARYLAND
--------
Andrews AFB: Golden Knights, May 14-16; Thunderbirds, May 14-15
College Park: September 18-19 (301-864-5844)
NAS Patuxent River: Blue Angels, May 22; Golden Knights, May 22-23
  (301-863-1141)
US Naval Academy, Annapolis: Blue Angels, May 24

MASSACHUSETTS
-------------
Andover: Golden Knights, May 31
Hanscom AFB: Golden Knights and Thunderbirds, June 26-27
NAS South Weymouth: Blue Angels, June 12-13 (617-785-2786)

NEW HAMPSHIRE
-------------
Concord: Golden Knights, June 26-27
Pease AFB(?): September 25-26 (617-274-0002)

NEW JERSEY
----------
Readington: July 30-August 1 (908-534-4000)
Sussex: August 27-29 (201-875-0783 and 201-875-7337)

NEW YORK
--------
Coney Island: Thunderbirds, May 29
Elmira: Blue Angels, July 3-4
Geneseo: August 20-22 (716-385-2390)
Rochester: Thunderbirds, May 16 (716-243-2255)

PENNSYLVANIA
------------
Erie: July 17-18 (814-833-7343)
Franklin: June 26-27 (814-432-5333)
Latrobe: Golden Knights, May 8-9
Mifflintown: June 27 (717-436-6036)
Quakertown: June 4-6 (215-997-9519 or 215-538-3055)
Reading: August 28-29 (215-372-4666)
Wilkes-Barre/Scranton IAP: Blue Angels and Golden Knights, August 21-22

RHODE ISLAND
------------
North Kingstown: Golden Knights, May 29-30; Thunderbirds,  May 30
  (401-888-1420)

VERMONT
-------
Burlington: Golden Knights, September 18-19

VIRGINIA
--------
Langley AFB: August 7
Manassas: September 18-19 (703-631-2423)
NAS Norfolk: April 25 and 26
NAS Oceana: Blue Angels, September 11-12 (804-433-2818)
Norfolk Harborfest: June 4-6 (804-627-5329)
Richmond: May 22-23

WEST VIRGINIA
-------------
Huntington: Golden Knights, May 15-16 (614-532-0435)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Apr 1993 16:43:29 EDT
From:    Michael Cotter <LBCOTTER@ECUVM1.BITNET>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

Bob, The GPO issues a microfiche listing of documents in print that are for
sale, called Publications Reference File (PRF).  You can search it by title
(in this case, United States Army in World War II) to find the volumes that
are still available from GPO.  Your local depository library should have a
set of the PRF, for I think that it is sent to all depositories. If not,
write to the GPO (c/o Superintendent of Documents, Washington DC 20402, or call
202/512-2457 and ask for Subject Bibliography 098, Military History).  About
80 titles are still in print; in spot-checking them, I see some publication
dates from the 1950s.   Hope this helps.

Michael Cotter
Documents Librarian
Joyner Library
East Carolina University
Greenville NC 27858
919/757-6533

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Apr 1993 17:53:42 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

>
>Bob, The GPO issues a microfiche listing of documents in print that are for
>sale, called Publications Reference File (PRF).  You can search it by title
>(in this case, United States Army in World War II) to find the volumes that
>are still available from GPO.  Your local depository library should have a
>set of the PRF, for I think that it is sent to all depositories. If not,
>write to the GPO (c/o Superintendent of Documents, Washington DC 20402, or call
>202/512-2457 and ask for Subject Bibliography 098, Military History).  About
>80 titles are still in print; in spot-checking them, I see some publication
>dates from the 1950s.   Hope this helps.

  The whole thing is also available on CD-ROM in searchable format.  We got
a set a Purdue as well as a CD for all Congressional Hearings from 179X to
1969 (the 25 year rule kicks in some where around there.) This is an listing
of the hearing and a synopsis of the content of the hearing.  That one is
published by a private company, so I won't be posting the really good ones
to "byrd", sorry.

> Michael Cotter
> Documents Librarian
> Joyner Library
> East Carolina University
> Greenville NC 27858
> 919/757-6533

Larry J

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 14 Apr 1993 to 15 Apr 1993
*************************************************

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Status: O

There are 21 messages totalling 624 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. USAAF 16 APR 43
  2. Two Questions
  3. REF: U.S. Army in WWII (6)
  4. Seeking book on Pacific War (8)
  5. Special Opportunity for Archival Research
  6. Teterboro Display
  7. Polish Government in Exile
  8. Ronald Spector book
  9. NEH Interpretive Research Grants

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 07:16:33 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 16 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 16 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in
pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, Kiska is bombed and strafed 13 times. A total of 13
B-24's, 12 B-25's, 32 P-40's, 29 P-38's, and 2 F-5A's cover targets which
include installations in the Holtz Bay area and gun positions on North
Head.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, P-40's, bombing a railroad bridge near Mogaung, score a
direct hit on the target and blow up both approaches, leaving the bridge
temporarily unserviceable. Later in the day the bridge near Pinbaw is
demolished by direct hits. Eight B-24's hit the Rangoon Marshaling Yard,
9 B-25's bomb the Thazi rail junction, while 9 more, weathered out of
Maymyo, hit rail targets in Mandalay.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force)
    In China, P-40's strafe a group of buildings E of Tenchung.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  VIII Bomber Command Mission Number 51: 25 B-24's are dispatched
against the Brest, France U-Boat base while 83 B-17's are dispatched
against the Lorient, France U-Boat base. 19 B-24's drop 52 tons on Brest at
1337-1338 hours; the B-24's claim 2-3-1 Luftwaffe aircraft; 3 B-24's are
lost, 1 is damaged beyond repair and 9 are damaged; casualties are 3 WIA
and 31 MIA. 59 B-17's bomb Lorient at 1412-1414 hours dropping 147 tons of
bombs; they claim 9-4-2 Luftwaffe aircraft; 1 B-17 is lost and 8 are damaged;
casualties are 7 WIA and 10 MIA. The attack is hindered by an effective
smoke screen and strong fighter opposition.
  HQ 96th Bombardment Group (Heavy) arrives at Great Saling, England from
the U.S.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Sicily, B-24's attack a tanker in Catania harbor, scoring several
hits on the target and in surrounding areas.
    In Tunisia, fighters fly sea patrol. The British Eighth Army abandons
their attempts to force a German retreat from Enfidaville by quick jabs and
prepares to launch a full-scale assault during the night of 19/20 Apr.
    The 83d Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 12th Bombardment Group (Medium)
and 488th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 340th Bombardment Group (Medium),
both with B-25's, transfer from Medenine, Tunisia to Sfax, Tunisia.
    The 512th and 513th Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy), 376th Bombardment
Group (Heavy) with B-24's transfer from Soluch, Libya to Bengasi, Libya;.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sicily, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) B-17's bomb
the dock area at Palermo.
    In Tunisia, Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF) fighters strafe
trucks during the night of 15/16 Apr and during the following day. A-20's
and fighter-bombers bomb Djqobel el Raar and concentrations located in
various wadis in the battle area. Northwest African Coastal Air Force
(NACAF) aircraft maintain sea reconnaissance and patrols. NASAF B-25's and
B-26's hit the Oudns landing ground while P-38's bomb vessels near Cape
Zebib and at Cape el Ahmar.
    The 85th and 86th Bombardment Squadrons (Light), 47th Bombardment Group
(Light) with A-20's transfer from Thelepte, Tunisia to Souk-el-Arba,
Tunisia.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomons, B-17's bomb Kahili Airfield.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-24's bomb Kaimana, Wewak, Madang, and Lae. B-17's pound
shipping at Wewak, leaving 3 vessels sunk or in sinking condition.
  In Timor, B-25's bomb Vila Salazar.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air
Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945
by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN
1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 07:36:49 CST
From:    "AD16000@NEMOMUS.BITNET. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <AD16%NEMOMUS.BITNET@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Two Questions

I have two brief questions, if anyone can help me out-----

1.  Do we have any Aggies on the conference---I'd like to talk direct to
a graduate of Texas A & M University, preferably someone who went
through their ROTC program.  It has to do with a uniform project I'm
working on.

2.  I think Akira ask this about a year ago, but are there any good WWII
bookstores in the Oakland/San Fransisco area?  Are there any good
military antique stores in the areas?

Please respond to me direct---Thanks----Tim

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# AD16%NEMOMUS@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 16:13:14 +0300
From:    Ozgur Altinyay <ALTINYAY@TRBILUN.BITNET>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

Dear Samuel
I will be most interested in reading your paper  . I will ,ost appreciate if
you emial to me
Thanks in advance
Altinyay@Trbilun

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 08:58:40 CDT
From:    Pat Hughes <JPHUGHES@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

When you say "the whole thing is also available on CD-ROM" do you mean that
the Green Books have been issued on CD-ROM??? I would be very interested in
that.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 09:26:37 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

>
> When you say "the whole thing is also available on CD-ROM" do you mean that
> the Green Books have been issued on CD-ROM??? I would be very interested in
> that.
>
Sorry, I meant the index of available documents.  I would also be very inter-
ested in the full text on CD-ROM, though it might mean that I'd never
get out of the house agian :-).

Digitizing of documents of historical interest is in the earliest stages
and I think in the next ten years we'll see some truly awesome collections
of works made available on a format that currently is primarily used for
Madonna and Dwight Yokum.

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 09:47:00 CDT
From:    Pat Hughes <JPHUGHES@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

I might be in a position to suggest to the Center for Military History that
the Green Books would be a very good target for digitizing. I am working on
the Army's pilot project for historical digitizing dealing with the Gulf War
records. I will see what I can suggest on WWII.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 09:50:02 -0500
From:    Bob Rogers <rogers@SOL.INSTRUMENTAL.COM>
Subject: Seeking book on Pacific War

Can anybody recommed a good, one-volume history of WWII in the
Pacific?

Thanks.

--
Bob Rogers            Internet:  rogers@instrumental.com
Instrumental, Inc.    GEnie:     R.C.ROGERS
Minneapolis, MN       Phone:     612-920-6188

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 10:01:53 EDT
From:    "Meghan Laslocky, NEH" <NEHRES@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Special Opportunity for Archival Research

               Special Opportunity for Archival Research


     The National Endowment for the Humanities has undertaken an
initiative to commemorate the 2500th anniversary of the birth of
democracy and to celebrate the spread of democratic institutions
in our own time.  In pursuit of this initiative, the Endowment
now announces a special opportunity for scholars seeking support
for individual or collaborative research to be undertaken in
archives abroad.

     The Endowment is especially interested in projects
reflecting emerging opportunities for research in recently opened
archives in newly-democratized countries, such as the former
Warsaw Pact countries of Eastern Europe or the republics of the
former Soviet Union.  Projects may address topics in any field of
the humanities, but preference will be given to projects that
investigate documents whose physical condition or whose uncertain
future access necessitates urgent attention.  Applications will
be reviewed on the basis of the significance of the project for
the humanities and the importance of the proposed archival
research to the completion of that project.  Grants will provide
limited support for travel (to a maximum of $2,800), living
expenses (not to exceed $1,250 per month), and research
expenses (including duplication of materials).  The proposed
grant period must be three or more weeks in duration, and the
total request cannot exceed a maximum of $20,000.

     This special opportunity is offered under the current
guidelines for the Division of Research programs, and
applications will be evaluated according to the "Evaluation
Criteria" published in the Guide to the Division of Research
Programs (1992): p. 24.  Applicants for this special opportunity
will be asked to submit a narrative description of the project
(not to exceed 5 single-spaced pages) outlining the methodology
and workplan of the proposed archival project, explaining the
importance of the archival collection(s) to be visited and the
research materials to be consulted, and demonstrating the impact
and significance of the project for the humanities in general.
Applicants will also be asked to indicate how access to the
research collection(s) will be secured.

     Eligibility is limited to U.S. citizens and foreign
nationals who have been living in the United States or its
jurisdictions for at least three years prior to the time of
application.  Work undertaken to satisfy requirements for an
academic degree is ineligible for support from this program.

     For information and application forms, prospective
applicants should contact

         Special Opportunity for Archival Research (S.O.A.R.)
              NEH Interpretive Research Program, Room 318
                    1100 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
                         Washington, DC  20506
                        telephone 202/606-8210

     Inquiries about the program may be directed through e-mail
to NEHRES@GWUVM.GWU.EDU (INTERNET) or NEHRES@GWUVM (BITNET).
E-mail messages should list "Archival Research" in the subject
line.

      The deadline for receipt of applications is May 11, 1993.
Thereafter, proposals will be accepted for review at bi-monthly
deadlines, subject to availability of funds.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 11:46:29 EDT
From:    Robert E George <regeorge@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Seeking book on Pacific War

>
> Can anybody recommed a good, one-volume history of WWII in the
> Pacific?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Bob Rogers            Internet:  rogers@instrumental.com
> Instrumental, Inc.    GEnie:     R.C.ROGERS
> Minneapolis, MN       Phone:     612-920-6188
>


You might like Ronald Spector's book "Eagle Against the Sun"
(maybe not the precise title?)

Rob

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 11:52:59 -0400
From:    John Riegsecker <riegsecker@UPS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Seeking book on Pacific War

Bob,

>Can anybody recommed a good, one-volume history of WWII in the
>Pacific?
>
>Thanks.
>
>--
>Bob Rogers            Internet:  rogers@instrumental.com
>Instrumental, Inc.    GEnie:     R.C.ROGERS
>Minneapolis, MN       Phone:     612-920-6188

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I liked the following book.

 TITLE        The Pacific War / John Costello.
 AUTHOR       Costello, John.
 EDITION      1st ed.
 PUBLISHER    New York : Rawson, Wade, c1981.
 DESCRIPTION  xiv, 742 p., [40] p. of plates : ill. ; 24 cm.
 NOTES        Bibliography: p. [709]-720.
              Includes index.
 SUBJECTS     World War, 1939-1945 --Pacific Ocean.
 ISBN         0892562064 : $24.00.
 LCCN         81007381.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 11:01:56 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

>
> I might be in a position to suggest to the Center for Military History that
> the Green Books would be a very good target for digitizing. I am working on
> the Army's pilot project for historical digitizing dealing with the Gulf War
> records. I will see what I can suggest on WWII.
>
Great!  We need to make the information searchable and useable.  a CD-ROM
can hold all of the books with room to hold more.

Good people, we need to start a campaign to get our subject digitized early
on.  The New York Times printed a "Text of Communiques from the Various
Fronts." every day of the war.  This would make an interesting chronology
of the diplomatic announcements and be a fun comparison with the "real"
events for the same period (what was the public being told as compared
witht what was really going on?)

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 12:36:50 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: Teterboro Display

I previously posted a notice of a B-25, PBY and B-17 appearing at
Teterboro Airport, New Jersey between April 16 (today) and April
18.

Be advised that this has been cancelled.  The aircraft travel
together and one of them has engine problems so they have cancelled
their appearance.  The people at the New Jersey Aviation Hall of
Fame and Museum told me that the aircraft display will be
re-scheduled; they should know the new date by the end of next week.

Stay tuned.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 11:40:08 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Seeking book on Pacific War

>
> Can anybody recommed a good, one-volume history of WWII in the
> Pacific?
>
> Thanks.

 Political or tactically oreinted?  The distinction is important given
the scope of the arena.  Which ever one you chose, keep a good chronology
of the whole war at your elbow to keep the big picture in mind.

 My recommendations:

The Rising Sun, John Toland.  Good analysis and very balanced, IMHO, while
occasionally getting down to personal levels and following real people
for a while.

The Pacific War 1941-45, John Costello.  Haven't done a thorough read of
this one yet, but the initial look-over was enough for me to buy it vice
waiting for the libraries to pick it up.

> --
> Bob Rogers            Internet:  rogers@instrumental.com
> Instrumental, Inc.    GEnie:     R.C.ROGERS
> Minneapolis, MN       Phone:     612-920-6188
>
Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 12:00:34 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Seeking book on Pacific War

>
> You might like Ronald Spector's book "Eagle Against the Sun"
> (maybe not the precise title?)
>
> Rob
>
I've seen this one but haven't had time to look it over.  Can you give
us an opinion on it?

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 09:49:00 PST
From:    Stephen Fox <FOXS@AXE.HUMBOLDT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Seeking book on Pacific War

Ronald Spector, _Eagle Against the Sun_(The Free Press, 1985).

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 15:04:00 EST
From:    "W.C. (RUSTY) DIVENS" <ERCOUPE@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Seeking book on Pacific War

A book I was somewhat reluctant to read, but which I found pretty
fascinating is WAR WITHOUT MERCY: RACE AND POWER IN THE PACIFIC WAR
by John Dower (New York, Pantheon Books, 1986) ISBN 039450030X.

It delves more into the propoganda and the racial perspectives that
were in place in the prewar and war years.  I found it to be a
pretty well-balanced presentation, that was very careful to refrain
from being judgemental in its presentation.  After reading it, I
finally undrestood why the Pacific war was a completely different
type of war than the European front.  If anyone is seriously
contemplating a study of the Pacific war, it might be worth a look.
I cannot say I agreed with all the premises that were presented, but
it certainly gives one pause to think, particularly when our perception
of the war comes largely from the Hollywood presentations of the
events.

N93774
@vms.cis.pitt.edu

Bill

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 14:11:53 -0500
From:    Steve Pec <pec%cstcc.dnet@NET.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Polish Government in Exile

Seeking German articles, books on Polish Government in exile.
Thanks.  Steve Pec
Please respond to: vunsf::"Pec%cstcc.dnet@net.vanderbilt.edu"

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 17:23:58 -0300
From:    Jay White <JWHITE@MTA.CA>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

LJ> Digitizing of documents of historical interest is in the
LJ> earliest stages and I think in the next ten years we'll see
LJ> some truly awesome collections of works made available on a
LJ> format that currently is primarily used for Madonna and
LJ> Dwight Yokum.

Larry,  I quite agree, and I think it will revolutionize the way that
historical research is conducted currently.

On a related issue, has anyone ever compiled a list of historical
journals that are now (or are planning to be) available in CD-ROM
format?  I would imagine that medical and scientific scholarly
journals have the jump on the humanities in this respect, but surely
there are some forward-thinking history journals out there that are
looking at CD-ROM?

cheers,
        Jay

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 13:36:00 PST
From:    Stephen Fox <FOXS@AXE.HUMBOLDT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Seeking book on Pacific War

I posted earlier and suggested the Spector book, but Larry Jewell's
reply cauyse me to want to second most enthusiastically _The
Rising Sun_ by Toland.

ex
********************************************
*       Steve Fox                          *
*       History Department                 *
*       Humboldt State University          *
*       Arcata, CA  95521                  *
*       (707) 826-4788                     *
*       foxs@axe.humboldt.edu              *
********************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 17:21:10 EDT
From:    Robert E George <regeorge@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Ronald Spector book

>
> >
> > You might like Ronald Spector's book "Eagle Against the Sun"
> > (maybe not the precise title?)
> >
> > Rob
> >
> I've seen this one but haven't had time to look it over.  Can you give
> us an opinion on it?
>
> Larry J
>


I liked it. It covers not only the Pacific but CBI as well. Anti-MacArthur,
pro-USMC slant.(Spector is a Marine.) Interesting background material on
US,JApanese armed forces.

Rob

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 14:49:18 EDT
From:    "Meghan Laslocky, NEH" <NEHRES@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject: NEH Interpretive Research Grants

              National Endowment for the Humanities
                  Interpretive Research Program

      The Interpretive Research Program at the National Endowment
for the Humanities offers three categories of support that are
designed to promote joint research efforts in humanities
disciplines:

     Collaborative Projects involve two or more scholars
     undertaking research for periods of more than one year; the
     Endowment is particularly interested in integrated efforts
     that interpret or synthesize work on important scholarly and
     intellectual issues.

           An award was made recently to support "Dialogues:
          Literary/Critical Exchanges Between Russian and
          American Women," a project that brings together two
          American and two Russian scholars to produce a
          comparative study of contemporary Russian and American
          women writers, incorporating representative works of
          fiction, autobiography, and interpretation by authors
          of both cultures.

     Humanities, Science, and Technology grants support research
     that brings the knowledge, methods, and perspective of the
     humanities to bear on the subjects of science, technology,
     and medicine.

           "Race, Mental Health, and Youth in New York" is a two
          year project currently supported by this category.  The
          grant will result in a history of the development of
          mental health and social services for African American
          and Hispanic youth in New York City from 1940 to 1976.


     Conferences unite scholars working on related topics in
     order to encourage the open exchange of ideas and thus
     stimulate scholarly research.

           In December of 1992, an international conference
          supported by the Endowment, "The Terror in the French
          Revolution," focused on the nature and genesis of the
          Terror of 1793-4, its place in history, and its
          significance in current historiographical debate.


Application deadlines:

      Collaborative Projects:  October 15, 1993
      Humanities, Science, and Technology:  October 15, 1993
      Conferences:  July 15, 1993 and January 15, 1994

Applications for Collaborative Projects and Humanities, Science,
and Technology will be available via paper mail in the late
spring; applications for Conferences are currently available via
paper mail.  Applicants are encouraged to consult with a member
of the staff before submitting a final application:

      The Interpretive Reseach Program
      NEH, Division of Research Programs, Room 318
      1100 Pennsylvania Avenue, N. W.
      Washington, D. C.  20506
      202/606-8210

Inquiries about the program may also be directed through e-mail
to NEHRES@GWUVM.GWU.EDU (INTERNET) or NEHRES@GWUVM(BITNET).
E-mail messages should list "Interpretive Research" in the
subject line.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 15 Apr 1993 to 16 Apr 1993
*************************************************

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Status: O

There are 4 messages totalling 139 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Seeking book on the Pacific War
  2. WEAP: Luftwaffe losses to B-17's (2)
  3. REF: Luftwaffe losses to USAAF a/c?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Apr 1993 14:32:39 -0230
From:    NAME <olaf@KEAN.UCS.MUN.CA>
Subject: Re: Seeking book on the Pacific War

Bob:

This is in response to your request for suggestions on books
relating to WWII in the Pacific. I'm the Reviews Editor of _The
Northern Mariner_, the journal of the Canadian Nautical Research
Society. What follows is a review that we carried in our January
issue of a book that seems to fit your request. Though the
edition that we reviewed was British, I'm fairly certain that the
book is available in the USA. Hope this helps.

Olaf Janzen
Department of History
Sir Wilfred Grenfell College
Corner Brook, Newfoundland
A2H 6P9

e-mail: olaf@kean.ucs.mun.ca

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Van der Vat. _The Pacific Campaign: World War II. The U.S. -
Japanese Naval War 1941-1945_. London: Hodder and Stoughton,
1991. 430 pp., maps, photographs, sources, index. 25 pounds
sterling, cloth; ISBN 0-340-49661-4.

With the publication of this book, Dan Van der Vat has out-
stripped the accomplishment of his previous volume on the
Atlantic War. This is a sweeping, complete, and carefully con-
sidered text on the Pacific campaign. It is suitable for both the
naval historian and the general reader; both will be able to
devote time and attention to it with profit.
      The book begins with two tidy chapters--well done, succinct
and complete--giving the political and international background
of the Pacific war, something which is not found in all studies
of this subject. Having set the scene, he then continues to
recount the story of the war in a fast-paced and accurate
narrative, missing little. Totally devoid of notes, he laces his
material with pithy and brief comments throughout, usually in
parentheses, which do not detract from his pace. This may disturb
the historian but it will certainly appeal to the general reader.
The section on Sources and Acknowledgements is refreshingly short
and clearly contains only those works which he actually consulted
in the writing of the book (as opposed to some authors who list
every book ever written on the Pacific campaign!).
      Van der Vat's parenthetical comments make it abundantly
clear that he is not enamoured of General Douglas MacArthur's
strategic acumen or of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto's contribution to
the Japanese naval war effort. On the latter he points out that a
few more mistakes like failing to ensure a constant supply of
properly trained pilots for the fleet would have ensured his
being perceived "even by the Americans, as an asset to their
cause." (p. 264)
      The author also discusses the similarity of the Japanese
experience and errors in the development of submarine and anti-
submarine warfare to that of the Germans, observing that no one
sought German advice or assistance with problems in any system-
atic fashion. He cites the Japanese army's attempt to build its
own submarines for supply purposes at the end of the war without
naval consultation as an example of inter-service rivalry and
failure in coordination and command at the most senior levels.
The book also contains an excellent description, summary and
assessment of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, as well as an assessment
of Halsey's now famous error and Ozawa's success at deception,
describing Admiral Ozawa as the most talented of Hirohito's
admirals.
      This is an excellent book, almost totally free of
typographical errors, and is highly recommended as an addition to
any naval collection and well worth the price.

James C. Lawless
Ottawa, Ontario

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Apr 1993 16:52:27 PDT
From:    Tim Torres <TORRETI@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU>
Subject: WEAP: Luftwaffe losses to B-17's

From: Timothy Torres, CIC

Today (Sat) on Discovery WINGS, the narrator claimed that more Luftwaffe
fighters were shot down by US daytime bombers than US fighters.  Is this
true?  I always thought that the bombers had a terrible time dealing with
fighters until the long-range US fighters arrived.

Anybody have any references that cover this?

-
Timothy A. Torres, Computing Consultant
Computing Information Center, San Jose State University
TORRETI@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU or TORRETI@SJSUVM1.BITNET

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Apr 1993 19:05:59 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Luftwaffe losses to B-17's

>
> From: Timothy Torres, CIC
>
> Today (Sat) on Discovery WINGS, the narrator claimed that more Luftwaffe
> fighters were shot down by US daytime bombers than US fighters.  Is this
> true?  I always thought that the bombers had a terrible time dealing with
> fighters until the long-range US fighters arrived.
>
> Anybody have any references that cover this?

  We have a copy of the Strategic Bombing Survey here. I will dig into it
tommorrow when I go to the library and see what they claim there.

> -
> Timothy A. Torres, Computing Consultant
> Computing Information Center, San Jose State University
> TORRETI@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU or TORRETI@SJSUVM1.BITNET
>
Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 17 Apr 1993 20:13:12 EDT
From:    Robert E George <regeorge@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: REF: Luftwaffe losses to USAAF a/c?

Try Ray Wagner's book on American Combat Aircraft and

William Green's "Famous  Fighters of the 2nd World War"

and William Green's "Famous Bombers of the 2nd World War."



Rob

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 16 Apr 1993 to 17 Apr 1993
*************************************************

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There are 4 messages totalling 306 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. AMERICAN CEMETERIES
  2. Dispatch from OKW
  3. Around the world.
  4. REF: U.S. Army in WWII

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Apr 1993 09:06:17 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: AMERICAN CEMETERIES

  Oslo, April 18.
  During a recent trip to the German-Luxembourg and German-Belgian border
area, where I spent a miserable winter in 1944-45, I visited the American
cemetery near Luxembourg City.  Could anyone tell me whether all the
American dead from the fighting in that area are buried there, or are there
other American cemeteries in Belgium and Germany west of the Rhine?
  I am particularly interested in where those who died in the fighting in
the Huertgen Forest near Aachen are buried.
        John C. Ausland CIS: 73240,2704
        Internet: d_ausland_j@kari.uio.no

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Apr 1993 08:20:45 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Dispatch from OKW

The Fuhrer and Commander-in-Chief of the German Armed Forces
OKW/WFSt/Abt.L (I) Nr. 33 408.40 gK Chefs.

Military Secret (Geheime Kommandosache)
Top Secret (Chef Sache)
By officer only
Fuhrer's Headquarters
December 18, 1940

Directive No. 21
Operation Barbarossa

The German Armed Forces must be prepared to crush Soviet Russia
in a quick campaign (Operation Barbarossa) even before the
conclusion of the war against England.

For this purpose the Army will have to employ all available
units, with the reservation that the occupied territories must
be secured against surprise attacks.

For the Air Force it will be a matter of releasing such strong
forces for the eastern campaign in support of the Army that a
quick completion of the ground operations may be expected and
that damage to Eastern German territory by enemy air attacks
will be as slight as possible.  This concentration of the main
effort in the East is limited by the requirement that the entire
combat and armament area dominated by us must remain adequately
protected against enemy air attacks and that the offensive
operations against England, particularly her supply lines, must
not be permitted to break down.

The main effort of the Navy will remain unequivocally directed
against England even during an eastern campaign.

I shall order the concentration against Soviet Russia possibly
eight weeks before the intended beginning of operations.

Preparations requiring more time to start are to be started now
- if this has not yet been done - and are to be completed by May
15, 1941.

It is to be considered of decisive importance, however, that the
intention to attack is not discovered.

The preparations of the High Commands are to be made on the
following basis:

I. General Purpose:

The mass of the Russian Army in Western Russia is to be
destroyed in daring operations, by driving forward deep armored
wedges, and the retreat of units capable of combat into the
vastness of Russian territory is to be prevented.

In quick pursuit a line is then to be reached from which the
Russian Air Force will no longer be able to attack German Reich
territory.  The ultimate objective of the operation is to
establish a defense line against Asiatic Russia from a line
running approximately from the Volga River to Archangel.  Then,
in case of necessity, the last industrial area left to Russia in
the Urals can be eliminated by the Luftwaffe.

In the course of these operations the Russian Baltic Sea Fleet
will quickly lose its bases and thus will no longer be able to
fight.

Effective intervention by the Russian Air Force is to be
prevented by powerful blows at the very beginning of the
operation.

II. Probable Allies and their Tasks:

1. On the flanks of our operation we can count on the active
participation of Rumania and Finland in the war against Soviet
Russia.

The High Command will in due time concert and determine in what
form the armed forces to the two countries will be placed under
German command at the time of their intervention.

2. It will be the task of Rumania, together with the forces
concentrating there, to pin down the enemy facing her and, in
addition, to render auxiliary services in the rear area.

3. Finland will cover the concentration of the redeployed German
North Group (parts of the XXI Group) coming from Norway and will
operate jointly with it.  Besides, Finland will be assigned the
task of eliminating Hango.

4. It may be expected that Swedish railroads and highways will
be available for the concentration of the German North Group,
from the start of the operations at the latest.

III. Direction of Operations:

In the zone of operations divided by the Pripet Marshes into a
southern and northern sector, the main effort will be made north
of this area.  Two Army Groups will be provided here.

The southern group of these two Army Groups - the center of the
entire front - will be given the task of annihilating the forces
of the enemy in White Russia by advancing from the region around
and north of Warsaw with especially strong armored and motorized
units.  The possibility of switching strong mobile units to the
North must thereby be created in order, in cooperation with the
Northern Army Group operating from East Prussia in the general
direction of Leningrad, to annihilate the enemy forces fighting
in the Baltic.  Only after having accomplished this most
important task, which must be followed by the occupation of
Leningrad and Kronstadt, are the offensive operations aimed at
the occupation of the important traffic and armament center in
Moscow to be pursued.

Only a surprisingly fast collapse of Russian resistance could
justify aiming at both objectives simultaneously.

The most important assignment of the XXI Group, even during the
eastern operations, will still be the protection of Norway.  The
additional forces available are to be employed in the north
(mountain corps), first to secure the Petsamo Region and its ore
mines as well as the Arctic Ocean route, and then to advance
jointly with Finnish forces against the Murmansk railroad and
stop the supply of the Murmansk region by land.

Whether such an operation with rather strong German forces (two
or three divisions) can be conducted from the area of and south
of Rovaniemi depends upon Sweden's willingness to make the
railroads available for such a concentration.

The main body of the Finnish Army will be assigned the task, in
coordination with the advance of the German northern flank, of
pinning down strong Russian forces by attacking west of or on
both sides of Lake Ladoga and seizing Hango.

The Army Group employed south of the Pripet Marshes is to make
its main effort in the area from Lublin in the general direction
of Kiev, in order to penetrate quickly with strong armored units
into the deep flank and rear of the Russian forces and then to
roll them up along the Dnieper River.

The German-Rumanian groups on the right flank are assigned the
task of:

(a) protecting Rumanian territory and thereby the southern flank
of the entire operation.

(b) pinning down the opposing enemy forces while Army Group
South is attacking on its northern flank and, according to the
progressive development of the situation and in conjunction with
the Air Force, preventing their orderly retreat across the
Dniester during the pursuit.

(and,) in the North, of reaching Moscow quickly.

The capture of this city means a decisive success politically
and economically and, beyond that, the elimination of the most
important railway center.

B. Air Force:

Its task will be to paralyze and to eliminate as far as possible
the intervention of the Russian Air Force as well as to support
the Army at its main points of effort, particularly those of
Army Group Center and, on the flank, those of Army Group South.
The Russian railroads, in the order of their importance for the
operations, will be cut or the most important near-by objectives
(river crossings) seized by the bold employment of parachute and
airborne troops.

In order to concentrate all forces against the enemy Air Force
and to give immediate support to the Army the armament industry
will not be attacked during the main operations.  Only after the
completion of the mobile operations may such attacks be
considered - primarily against the Ural Region.

C. Navy:

The Navy's role against Soviet Russia is, while safeguarding our
own coast, to prevent an escape of enemy naval units from the
Baltic Sea.  As the Russian Baltic Sea Fleet, once we have
reached Leningrad, will be deprived of its last base and will
then be in a hopeless situation, any larger naval operations are
to be avoided before that time.

After the elimination of the Russian Fleet it will be a question
of protecting all the traffic in the Baltic Sea, including the
supply by sea of the northern flank of the Army (mine
clearance!).

IV. All orders to be issued by the commanders-in-chief on the
basis of this directive must clearly indicate that they are
precautionary measure for the possibility that Russian should
change her present attitude toward us.  The number of officers
to be assigned to the preparatory work at an early date is to be
kept as small as possible; additional personnel should be
briefed as late as possible and only to the extent required for
the activity of each individual.  Otherwise, through the
discovery of our preparations - the date of their execution has
not even been fixed - there is danger that most serious
political and military disadvantages may arise.

V. I expect reports from the commanders-in-chief concerning
their further plans based on this directive.

The contemplated preparations of all branches of the Armed
Forces, including their progress, are to be reported to me
through the High Command (OKW).

Adolf Hitler

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Apr 1993 17:01:20 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Around the world.

Every few months I take a look at the geographic distribution of the members
of this list.  The latest listing is enclosed.  I want to thank each of you
for making this one of the most trouble free list on the net, and to say
that we are all making the cause of understanding each other take another
small step.  We are dedicated to not forgetting the past so that we may
protect the future and we seem to be doing quite well.

Peace be with you all.

Larry J

*
*  Country        Subscribers
*  -------        -----------
*  Australia          6
*  Austria            1
*  Belgium            1
*  Brazil             2
*  Canada            14
*  Costa Rica         1
*  Finland            1
*  France             1
*  Germany            3
*  Great Britain      4
*  Greece             1
*  Ireland            1
*  Israel             1
*  Italy              1
*  Japan              1
*  Mexico             1
*  Netherlands        6
*  Norway             3
*  Poland             2
*  Saudi-Arabia       1
*  South Africa       1
*  Spain              1
*  Sweden             1
*  Switzerland        1
*  Turkey             1
*  USA              175
*  ???                5
*
* Total number of "concealed" subscribers:         5
* Total number of users subscribed to the list:  237  (non-"concealed" only)
* Total number of countries represented:          27  (non-"concealed" only)
* Total number of local node users on the list:    4  (non-"concealed" only)
*

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 18 Apr 1993 23:34:44 -0400
From:    KAPLAN@DUQ3.DUQ.EDU
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

How about a hyper-card type work?  The first hyper-card program I saw was a
CD-Rom covering the assassination of JFK.  It began as a documentary with
icons next to specific people and places.  You could click onto Gov. Connally,
Jackie, or even the secret service agent climbing onto the back of the limo.
You would then be given an explanation of who they were, and what was happening
to them.
Imagine a program like that about Pearl Harbor or Midway?  Click onto the
Arizona and find out its history, who the commander was and his background, the
ship's armaments, propulsion etc.  That would make an ideal learning tool.

                                        Richard Kaplan
                                        kaplan@duq3.duq.edu

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 17 Apr 1993 to 18 Apr 1993
*************************************************

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Subject:  WWII-L Digest - 18 Apr 1993 to 19 Apr 1993
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Status: O

There are 18 messages totalling 1667 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. USAAF 17 APR 43
  2. USAAF 18 APR 43
  3. USAAF 19 APR 43
  4. DISCOVERY CHAN
  5. US Cemetery
  6. IRELAND
  7. WEAP: Luftwaffe losses to B-17's (2)
  8. US Cemetery -- Huertgen
  9. REF: U.S. Army in WWII (2)
 10. Addr: US CEMETERY--HUERTGEN
 11. Terms with Hitler
 12. U505 & radio intercepts
 13. CEMETERIES
 14. HUERTGEN FOREST
 15. 1938-'41 Chronology
 16. Addr: Huertgen

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 07:16:46 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 17 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 17 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  Blenheim, Bristol (RAF)
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  Liberator, Consolidated (RAF)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, 7 B-24's bomb and score 8 direct hits on the runway and
gun emplacements at Attu. One B-24 and 2 F-5A's abort due to weather. 4
B-25's, 31 P-38's, and 14 P-40's hit Kiska 9 times, bombing installations
and strafing gun emplacements and 3 parked airplanes.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 7 B-25's bomb the Myitnge bridge, scoring 4 damaging hits.
Ten others hit the Myitnge railroad works. Sixteen P-40's damage the bridge
at Kamaing, attack the town of Nanyaseik, and score hits on the N approach
to the bridge at Namti. Six B-24's damage the S approach to the Pazundaung
railroad bridge.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  VIII Bomber Command Mission Number 52: 115 B-17's are dispatched against
the Focke-Wulf factory at Bremen, Germany the Eighth Air Force's largest
mission to date. A mass of fighters attacks during bomb run, shooting down
15 while flak claims another. We claim 63-15-17 Luftwaffe aircraft; 39
B-17's are damaged; casualties are 2 KIA, 4 WIA and 159 MIA.
  The Commanding General, VIII Fighter Command, expresses the need for 20
fighter groups to neutralize growing German fighter opposition to the
Combined Bomber Offensive (CBO).

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Sicily, B-24's (including Liberator Mk II's of the RAF 178 Squadron,
under operational control of the IX Bomber Command) bomb Catania.
    In Tunisia, P-40's fly sweeps, sea patrol, and fighter-bomber missions.
    HQ 340th Bombardment Group (Medium) and it's 486th and 487th
Bombardment Squadrons (Medium) with B-25's and the 434th Bombardment
Squadron (Medium), 12th Bombardment Group (Medium) with B-25's transfer
from Medenine, Tunisia to Sfax, Tunisia.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sicily, B-17's bomb shipping and docks at Palermo.
    In Tunisia during the night of 16/17 April, Northwest African Stragegic
Air Force (NASAF) Wellington's bomb the N quay in Bizerte harbor. Shortly
after noon, B-17's bomb shipping and docks at Ferryville. B-25's hit  the
town area and marshaling yard at Mateur. Fighters provide escort. Northwest
African Tactical Air Force (NATAF) Blenheims bomb La Sebala Airfield and
A-20's hit Ksar Tyr and concentrations NE of Grich el Oued. Fighters fly
escort and reconnaissance missions. Northwest African Coastal Air Force
(NACAF) airplanes fly sea patrol and reconnaissance and attack shipping in
the Strait of Sicily.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomons, B-l7's during the night of 16/17 Apr again fly a strike
against Kahili Airfield.
  HQ 18th Fighter Group transfers from Espiritu Santo to Guadalcanal.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In the Moluccas, B-24's bomb Amboina.
  In New Guinea, a single B-24 scores hits on the NW shore of Hollandia
Bay.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59


----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 07:20:38 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 18 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SUNDAY, 18 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  Beaufighter, Bristol
  Beaufort, Bristol
  Betty, Mitsubishi G4M, Navy Type 1 Attack Bomber
  Bf 109, Messerschmitt
  Bf 110, Messerschmitt
  Ju 52/3m, Junkers
  Mc 202, Macchi Folgore (Thunderbolt)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-70, Douglas
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine
  Wellington, Vickers
  Zeke, Mitsubishi A6M, Navy Type 0 Carrier Fighter

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, 22 P-38's (some flown by Royal Canadian Air Force
pilots) and 37 P-40's hit Kiska 9 times. The submarine base and gun
emplacments on North Head are bombed and gun emplacements near the
submarine base are silenced.

CENTRAL PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Seventh Air Force)
  In the Ellice Islands, the 371st and 372d Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy),
307th Bombardment Group (Heavy) based at Wheeler Field, Territory of Hawaii
with B-24's begin operating from Funafuti.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force)
    In China, P-40's strafe an enemy-held supply village SE of Tengchung.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    Off Cap Bon, 46 P-40F's of the 57th Fighter Group's three squadrons
(64th, 65th and 66th Fighter Squadrons) and the attached 314th Fighter
Squadron, 324th Fighter Group, plus 11 Spitfires of the RAF 92 Squadron
flying top cover, take off to patrol. At approximately 1800 hours, they spot
2 Bf 109's and an armada of 65 Ju 52/3m transports heading back to Sicily
for more supplies. The transports are in three great vees, covered by 16 Bf
109's and Mc 202's and 5 Bf 110's. The 64th Figher Squadron and the RAF
Spitfires stay high; the remaining 3 squadrons of P-40's attack the
Luftwaffe formation and down 24 Ju 53/3m's and 16 fighters; another 35 Ju
52/3m's crash along the coast.
    In Sicily, B-24's attack Catania.
    In Tunisia, P-40's fly sweeps, armored reconnaissance, escort, and
fighter-bomber missions. B-25's hit landing grounds.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Tunisia during the night of 17/18 Ap, RAF Wellingtons bomb the Tunis
docks and marshaling yard. Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF)
Blenehims hit the La Marsa landing ground while fighter fly reconnaissance
and scramble missions. Northwest African Coastal Air Force (NACAF) fighters
fly reconnaissance and patrols, attacking vessels, troop columns, and truck
in the Tunisian coastal area,
    In Sicily, over 75 B-17's, escorted by P-38's, attack Boccadifalco
Airfield and the Palermo Marshaling Yard.
    In Sardinia, B-25's, escorted by P-38's, hit the Alghero-Fertilia
Airfield and shipping at Porto Torres while Beaufighters attack the
Decimomannu Airfield.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomons, Major John W Mitchell leads a flight of 16 P-38's (2
others abort) on a low-level, circuitous, over-water trip from Guadalcanal
to a spot up the Bougainville coast from Kahili to intercept the fight of
Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, head of the Imperial Japanese Navy, who, according
to US intelligence, is on an inspection trip in the S Pacific and is due in
Ballale at 0945 local. Admiral Yamamoto'a well-known punctuality is
calculated to allow the interception to take place at 0935 local at a point
35 mi (56 km) from Kahili. Two hours and 15 minutes after takeoff at 0725
local, as the P-38's streak toward Bougainville at almost sea level, a
flight of 2 Betty bombers and 6 Zekes appears just ahead. The 4-aircraft
attack section under Captain Thomas G. Lanphier, Jr bores in. The Zekes spot
the attacking P-38's at about 1 mi (0.6 km) and try in vain to cut off the
attack as the bombers attempt to escape. In the air battle, Captain Lanphier
and First Lieutenant Rex T. Barber shoot down the bomber carrying Yamamoto.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In Timor, B-25's bomb the airfield at Penfoei.
  In New Guinea, single B-24's hit the Finschhafen and Saidor areas.
  A detachment of the 6th Night Fighter Squadron, 15th Fighter Group based
at Kipapa, Territory of Hawaii begins operating from New Guinea with P-70's.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59



----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 07:22:42 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 19 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
MONDAY, 19 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  Blenheim, Bristol
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, 9 missions involving 14 B-24's, 12 B-25's, 32 P-40's,
and 23 P-38's are flown to Kiska. The first mission is weathered out of
the primary target, Attu, and directed to Kiska. Bombing and strafing
concentrates on 4 grounded ships and the submarine base area where fires
are started. One ship, believed to serve as a power station, is set afire.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    P-40's hit bridges in Burma, seriously damaging the Namti railroad
bridge between Mogaung and Myitkyina. Nine B-24's bomb Rangoon's main
railroad station.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Tunisia, B-25's hit landing grounds and defensive positions, and
P-40's escort bombers and fly fighter sweeps as the British Eighth Army
opens an assault on Enfidaville positions.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Tunisia during the night of 18/19 Apr, Northwest African Tactical
Air Force (NATAF) Blenheims bomb La Marsa landing ground and roads
nearby, and attack activity on beach at Reyville. During the day,
Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) B-17's bomb shipping at
Tunis. B-25's and A -20's raid the La Sebala Airfield. Fighter-bombers
attack tanks in the battle area. Northwest African Coastal Air Force
(NACAF) maintains sea reconnaissance and patrols as far as Sardinia and
sea approaches to Naples. NAAF aircraft claim over 100 aircraft destroyed
during the day.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  Single medium or heavy bombers bomb airfields at Hollandia and Lae, New
Guinea and Cape Gloucester and Gasmata in the Bismarck Archipelago.


SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59


----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 07:26:57 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: DISCOVERY CHAN

*******************************************************************
*******************************************************************
**                                                               **
**               MAY, 1993 DISCOVERY CHANNEL SCHEDULE            **
**                                                               **
** Cable TV's Discovery Channel received in Canada and the U.S.  **
** that may of interest to the aviation, military, etc minded    **
** community.                                                    **
**                                                               **
**         All times are Eastern Daylight Time (EDT)             **
**                                                               **
*******************************************************************
*******************************************************************


ASSIGNMENT DISCOVERY
--------------------
Episode 231 (Wright's 1st fligth, 17 Dec 03)
  Mon, Apr 26 0900-1000

B-17 FLYING FORTRESS-A TRIBUTE (YEAH!!!!!!)
-------------------------------------------
  Sun, May 23 1700-1730

CHALLENGE
---------
Test Pilot
  Sat, May 22 2000-2100
  Sat, May 22 2300-2400

DISCOVERY SHOWCASE
------------------
Pearl Harbor (7 Dec 41)
  Mon, May 31 2100-2200
  Tue, Jun 1 0000-0100

DISCOVERY SUNDAY
----------------
Alaska at War (WWII)
  Sun, May 23 2100-2200
  Mon, May 24 0000-0100

FIREPOWER
---------
Armored Force (armored units)
  Thu, May 27 2100-2130
  Fri, May 28 0000-0030
Clash of Armor (tanks)
  Thu, May 6 2100-2130
  Fri, May 7 0000-0030
Eject (ejection seats)
  Thu, Apr 29 2100-2130
  Fri, Apr 30 0000-0030
Guided Bomb
  Thu, May 13 2100-2130
  Fri, May 14 0000-0030
The Silent War (nuke boats)
  Thu, May 20 2100-2130
  Fri, May 21 0000-0030

FRONTIERS OF FLIGHT
-------------------
Golden Age Frontiers (20's & 30's of Earhart, Hughes, Post, etc.)
  Sat, May 1 2100-2200
  Sun, May 2 0000-0100
Jet Power (in WWII)
  Sat, May 15 2100-2200
  Sun, May 16 0000-0100
Rocket Power (German V-2, et al.)
  Sat, May 8 2100-2200
  Sun, May 9 0000-0100
The Sound Barrier (Chuck Yeager)
  Sat, May 22 2100-2200
  Sun, May 23 0000-0100

GI DIARY
--------
Americans in Paris (25 Aug 44)
  Thu, Apr 29 2130-2200
  Fri, Apr 30 0030-0100
Iwo Jima-Eight Square Miles of Hell
  Thu, May 13 2130-2200
  Fri, May 14 0030-0100
Okinawa-At the Emperor's Doorstep
  Thu, May 20 2130-2200
  Fri, May 21 0030-0100
Peleliu-The Killing Ground (1944)
  Thu, May 6 2130-2200
  Fri, May 7 0030-0100
The Last Barrier-Crossing the Rhine
  Thu, May 27 2130-2200
  Fri, May 28 0030-0100

MONSTER-A PORTRAIT OF STALIN IN BLOOD
-------------------------------------
Stalin and the War
  Tue, May 4 2200-2300
  Wed, May 5 0100-0200
  Sat, May 8 1600-1700
Stalin's Secret Police
  Tue, May 11 2200-2300
  Wed, May 12 0100-0200
  Sat, May 15 1600-1700
Stalin and Mind Control
  Tue, May 25 2200-2300
  Wed, May 26 0100-0200
  Sat, May 29 1600-1700

SECRETS OF THE DEEP
-------------------
Mysteries of the Monitor (USS Monitor off Cape Haterras)
  Wed, May 12 2000-2100
  Wed, May 12 2300-2400

SKYBOUND
--------
Dogfighters (demands of)
  Fri, Apr 30 2130-2200
  Sat, May 1 0030-0100
Flight Crazy (Oshkosh)
  Fri, May 7 2130-2200
  Sat, May 8 0030-0100
Propliners
  Fri, May 21 2130-2200
  Sat, May 22 0030-0100
Smooth Sailing (balloons)
  Fri, May 14 2130-2200
  Sat, May 15 0030-0100

THE ADVENTURERS
---------------
Episode 30 (USN Damage Control & para-rescue)
  Thu, Apr 29 2200-2230
  Fri, Apr 30 0100-0130
Episode 31 (US Forest Service smoke jumpers)
  Thu, May 6 2200-2230
  Fri, May 7 0100-0130
Episode 32 (Afghan rebels)
  Thu, May 13 2200-2230
  Fri, May 14 0100-0130
Episode 33 (USN SEALs)
  Thu, May 27 2200-2230
  Fri, May 28 0100-0130

WINGS
-----
A-4, Douglas Sky Hawk
  Sat, May 29 1300-1400
  Sun, May 30 1800-1900
B-26, Martin Marauder
  Wed, May 12 2100-2200
  Thu, May 13 0000-0100
Boeing 707/C-135
  Sat, May 15 1300-1400
  Sun, May 16 1800-1900
Boeing 747
  Wed, Apr 28 2100-2200
  Thu, Apr 29 0000-0100
C-130, Lockheed Hercules
  Wed, May 5 2100-2200
  Thu, May 6 0000-0100
DC-3/C-47, Douglas (a REAL airplane)
  Sat, May 1 1300-1400
  Sun, May 2 1800-1900
F-84, Republic Thunderjet
  Sat, May 22 1300-1400
  Sun, May 23 1800-1900
  May 23
F-100, North American Super Sabre
  Sat, May 8 1300-1400
  Sun, May 9 1800-1900
F-105, Republic Thunderchief
  Wed, May 19 2100-2200
  Thu, May 20 0000-0100
P-51, North American Mustang
  Wed, May 26 2100-2200
  Thu, May 27 0000-0100

WORLD OF VALOR
--------------
FBI
  Fri, May 7 2100-2130
  Sat, May 8 0000-0030
  Sun, May 9 1730-1800
French Foreign Legion
  Fri, May 14 2100-2130
  Sat, May 15 0000-0030
  Sun, May 16 1730-1800
Israeli Defense Forces
  Fri, Apr 30 2100-2130
  Sat, May 1 0000-0030
  Sun, May 2 1730-1800
U.S. Army Special Forces
  Fri, May 21 2100-2130
  Sat, May 22 0000-0030
  Sun, May 23 1730-1800

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 13:27:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <MIMHCB@RULMVS.LEIDENUNIV.NL>
Subject: US Cemetery

John,
     the big American Cemetery in the Netherlands is in Margraten.
This is about 10 km E of Maastricht and very close to Aachen and
the Huerten Forest.
In 44 and 45 the Allieds killed there in the neighbourhood were buried
there and years after the war they reburied a lot of Americans on
that place.
Peter de Lange, Leiden
MIMHCB@rulmvs.leidenuniv.nl

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 08:14:19 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: IRELAND

Larry Jewell's list indicating the country of origin of the WWII
subscribers indicates that there is one in the Republic of Ireland.
I was wondering if that individual has any information concerning
U.S. aircraft that crashed in Ireland during WWII.  I know that
General Smith, Eisenhower's Chief of Staff, went down in Ireland in
1944 (?) but I am looking for information on any other aircraft
that crashed anywhere in the Republic.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.           FDR             |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 10:03:52 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <rjg@UMNSTAT.STAT.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Luftwaffe losses to B-17's

> > From: Timothy Torres, CIC
> >
> > Today (Sat) on Discovery WINGS, the narrator claimed that more Luftwaffe
> > fighters were shot down by US daytime bombers than US fighters.  Is this
> > true?  I always thought that the bombers had a terrible time dealing with
> > fighters until the long-range US fighters arrived.
> >
> > Anybody have any references that cover this?
>
>   We have a copy of the Strategic Bombing Survey here. I will dig into it
> tommorrow when I go to the library and see what they claim there.

Just thinking wildly without using any evidence whatsoever, I wouldn't be
surprised if this were true.

The long-range fighters didn't come into play until basically 1944.  By that
time, the U.S. bombers had been flying daytime missions for more than two
years, essentially unescorted.  A lot of fighters (and bombers) went down
during that time.

By the time late 1944 ran around, the Axis was finding it harder and harder
to get aircraft into the air, so much of the infrastructure had been
demolished (though an amazing amount remained ... But when the Me-262 came
out, the aircraft was towed around by cows because all the horses had been
killed and fuel was too valuable to waste on tugs...)

I'll wait to see if evidence supports this at all.  :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
rjg@stat.umn.edu                                       Confederate Air Force
  You know you've made a gear-up landing when it takes full power to taxi.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 10:29:47 CDT
From:    Mike Seningen <seningen@ROSS.COM>
Subject: Re: US Cemetery -- Huertgen

I am nearly finished reading a book about the
Huertgen Forrest.  In general the book is not very good.
It has some facts, but relies strongly on the opinions of the
author and his will to express his opinion on the reader.
The author does a very good job of depressing you by describing in
excrutiating detail about the conditions of the battle and the ineptitude
of higher officials.  I'll dig the exact name and author up and post tomorrow.

I believe the numbers this author presented were 5000 combat casualties
a week and a like number of non-combat casualties.  Several divisions
suffered nearly 100% casualties, one or two suffered > 100% as green
troops were "blooded" in the Death Factory.  A total combat casualty
figure of 90000 was presented.

mike

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 11:11:26 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

>
>How about a hyper-card type work?  The first hyper-card program I saw was a
>CD-Rom covering the assassination of JFK.  It began as a documentary with
>icons next to specific people and places.  You could click onto Gov. Connally,
>Jackie, or even the secret service agent climbing onto the back of the limo.
>You would then be given an explanation of who they were, and what was happening
>to them.
>Imagine a program like that about Pearl Harbor or Midway?  Click onto the
>Arizona and find out its history, who the commander was and his background, the
>ship's armaments, propulsion etc.  That would make an ideal learning tool.
>
>                                         Richard Kaplan
>                                         kaplan@duq3.duq.edu
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 11:30:34 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: REF: U.S. Army in WWII

>
>How about a hyper-card type work?  The first hyper-card program I saw was a
>CD-Rom covering the assassination of JFK.  It began as a documentary with
>icons next to specific people and places.  You could click onto Gov. Connally,
>Jackie, or even the secret service agent climbing onto the back of the limo.
>You would then be given an explanation of who they were, and what was happening
>to them.
>Imagine a program like that about Pearl Harbor or Midway?  Click onto the
>Arizona and find out its history, who the commander was and his background, the
>ship's armaments, propulsion etc.  That would make an ideal learning tool.
>
>                                         Richard Kaplan
>                                         kaplan@duq3.duq.edu

It's just this kind of interactive system that is beginning to become avail-
able to the general public.  Creative minds working with computers will be
the next serious advance in the educational world.  Getting the information
on disk will be the greatest challenge, but I'm looking at ways to make this
happen, starting with public domain documents such as Department of State
documents and Military History files which have been "produced at the public
expense."


I have a major problem with "digested" histories.  I like to read the original
document myself and not get someone else's edited (and sometimes highly
opinionated) version of the same.  Having the documents on a cd-rom where
I can search for a word, phrase, name or date will be my idea of heaven.

Larry J

BTW, sorry about the null message earlier.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 11:40:09 EDT
From:    RICHARD KING <RKING@VUNET.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Addr: US CEMETERY--HUERTGEN

Since the Huertgen Forest battle is being discussed, I
thought I'd mention that an excellent article concerning
the Hertgen Forest TODAY appeared as the cover story of
AFTER THE BATTLE. This is an outstanding periodical about
WWII events as they geographically appear in the present time.
One interesting aspect is that photographs of WWII events
appear side by side with recent photographs (i.e., two young
lovers reclining on the same steps in 1992 that Hitler was
photographed walking down in 1942). Maybe everyone already
knows about this publication, but I find it extremely
interesting and thought I'd pass it along.
**********************************************************
Richard L. King, Reference Librarian, Vincennes (IN) Univ.
RKING@VUNET.VINU.EDU

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 15:25:47 EST
From:    GLAB000 <GLAB@SLUMUS.BITNET>
Subject: Terms with Hitler

IRT the railway car in which WW I was ended, I had always understood
that it was transported to a museum in Munich and later destroyed
in an allied bombing attack.  It would be interesting to find
out wht really happened to it.

Dale Lally
St. Lawrence University
Canton NY
dlally@stlawu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 15:50:44 EST
From:    GLAB000 <GLAB@SLUMUS.BITNET>
Subject: U505 & radio intercepts

IRT the capture of U 505 and the ENIGMA machine, I understand that the
Germans always assumed that such a machine would fall into enemy hands.
However, since they regularly changed cipher keys, they assumed that
all info gained via a captured machine would be stale before it would
ever be decripted.  However, (ta daa) the big computers installed at
Bletchly Park and in the US were able to crack the German ciphers
within hours rather than the days or months that the Germans were
counting on.  I think the biggest problem for our side was in believing
that the traffic they were getting was really genuine.

Dale Lally  CAPT/USNR
dlally@stlawu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 21:51:16 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: CEMETERIES

  Oslo, April 19.  Thanks to Peter de Lange for the information about
the US military cemetery near Maastricht.  Thus, there is one in
Luxembourg and one in Holland.  Does anyone know if there is also
one in Belgium?  Regards, John Ausland, Oslo, Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 22:20:29 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: HUERTGEN FOREST

  Oslo, April 19.  There have been two messages about the Huertgen
Forest, one from Mike Seningen and the other from Richard King.  My
interest springs from having been there with the 4th Infantry Division,
having just published my memoirs about my experiences during World
War II, including a chapter on the Huertgen, and having just
revisited the Huertgen.
  I would be interested in knowing what book Mike Seningen is reading.
The best book I know on the subject is THE BATTLE OF THE HUERTGEN
FOREST by Charles B. MacDonald, who also wrote the volume in the
US Army series which covered the battle.  It was as close to hell
as I want to get and was a terrible mistake.  As MacDonald said,
"Those in the Huertgen Forest fought a misconceived and basically
fruitless battle that could have, and should have, been avoided."
  I can add that after the war the Command and General Staff
College used it for awhile as an example of how a battle should
not be fought.
  During a visit to the museum at Diekirch, Luxembourg, I first
heard of the publication AFTER THE BATTLE, but it does not seem to
be available here in Norway.  Would it be possible to send me a copy
of the article on the Huertgen?  If it is not too long, perhaps it
could be faxed.  My fax number is +47 22 16 30 92.  My mailing
address is: Sondreveien 4 Entry 2, 0378 Oslo, Norway.
  Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 15:56:22 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: 1938-'41 Chronology

I thought some of you might find this interesting or useful.

Larry J

CHRONOLOGY OF INTERNATIONAL EVENTS, MARCH 1938 TO DECEMBER 1941,
ISSUED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE, DECEMBER 18,1941

(Department of State, Bulletin, December 27, 1941, p. 590)

1938

March 11
German troops crossed Austrian frontier.
The Times (London) March 12, 1938, p. 12

March 13
Austro-German Union proclaimed at Vienna: "Austria is a state
(land) of the German Reich."  Text of Anschluss law, Department
of State PRESS RELEASES, March 19, 1938, Vol. XIX, p 374.

April 16
British-Italian agreement signed, whereby Great Britain
recognized the conquest of Ethiopia and Italy promised to
withdraw all troops from Spain at the conclusion of the civil war.
Great Britain, Foreign Office TREATY SERIES, No. 31 (1938)

April 27-29
Three day Anglo-French conference at London.  Arrangement
concluded whereby the British and French general staffs would
collaborate more closely henceforth in military and naval defense.
New York Times, April 29, 1938, p. 1; April 30, p. 1.

July 21
Chaco Peace Pact signed, ending the long conflict between
Bolivia and Paraguay.
Department of State PRESS RELEASES, July 23, 1938, Vol. XIX, p. 44.

September 15
Chamberlain-Hitler talks at Berchtesgaden.
New York Times, September 16, 1938, p. 1.

September 22-23
Chamberlain-Hitler talks at Godesberg.
New York Times, September 23, 1938, p. 1.; September 24, 1938, p. 1.

September 26
President Roosevelt appealed for peace directly to Hitler and
President Benes.
Department of State PRESS RELEASES, October 1, 1938, Vol. XIX, p 219.

September 29
Chamberlain, Daladier, Hitler and Mussolini signed Munich Pact.
Great Britain, Cmd. 5848, FURTHER DOCUMENTS RESPECTING
CZECHOSLOVAKIA, INCLUDING THE AGREEMENT CONCLUDED AT MUNICH ON
SEPTEMBER 29, 1938, Miscellaneous No. 8 (1938)

September 30
Chamberlain-Hitler peace declaration signed.
Great Britain, House of Commons PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES, Vol. 339,
col. 49.

October 1-10
Sudeten areas occupied by Germany.
See Great Britain, Cmd. 5848.

October 1
Czechoslovakia yielded to Poland.
New York Times, October 2, 1938, p. 1.

October 2
Polish troops occupied the Teschen area.
New York Times, October 3, 1938, p 1.

December 6
Franco-German peace declaration signed.
New York Times, December 7, 1938, p. 1.

1939

March 14
German, Hungarian, and Rumanian troops invaded Czechoslovakia.
Slovakia proclaimed independence.
New York Times, March 15, 1939, p. 1.

March 16
German Government officially proclaimed Bohemia and Moravia
protectorates:  Decree of March 16 of the Government of the
Reich on the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia.
Department of State PRESS RELEASES, March 25, 1939, Vol. XX, p. 220.

Slovakia taken over as a protectorate by Germany.
New York Times, March 17, 1939, p. 1.

Hungary announced annexation of Carpatho-Ukraine.
New York Times, March 17, 1939, p. 1.

March 22
Memel ceded to Germany by Lithuania: Reunion complete with the
signature at Berlin of a five-point non-aggression pact.
New York Times, March 23, 1939, p. 4.

March 31
Prime Minister Chamberlain in the House of Commons announced a
British and French pledge to come to the assistance of Poland
with all the power at their command "in the event of any action
which clearly threatened Polish independence and which the
Polish Government accordingly considered it vital to resist with
their national forces..."
Great Britain, House of Commons PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES, Vol.
345, col. 2415.

April 1
Spanish civil war ended: "After having made prisoner and
disarmed the Red Army, the National troops have attained their
final military objective.  In consequence, the civil war is
over."  Communiqui by General Franco.
The Times (London), April 3, 1939, p. 13.

April 6
Prime Minister Chamberlain announced in the House of Commons a
Polish-British agreement, bringing into existence a triple
alliance - France, Great Britain, and Poland.  The agreement was
a provisional mutual-aid pact, pending the elaboration of a
formal treaty of alliance.
Great Britain, House of Commons PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES, Vol. 345,
col. 2996.

April 7
Italian troops invaded Albania.
Great Britain, House of Commons PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES, Vol. 346,
col. 6

April 13
Prime Minister Chamberlain made statement in House of Commons
which guaranteed borders of Rumania and Greece: "...in the event
of any action being taken which clearly threatened the
independence of Greece or Rumania...His Majesty's Government
would feel themselves bound at once to lend...all the support in
their power."  Similar assurances were given by France.
Great Britain, House of Commons PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES, Vol. 346,
col. 13.

April 14
Communication of President Roosevelt to Chancellor Hitler and
Premier Mussolini: Plea for 10-year guaranty of peace.
Department of State PRESS RELEASES, April 15, 1939, Vol. XX, p. 527

April 28
German note notified Great Britain of denunciation of the Naval
Agreement of June 18, 1935.
New York Times, April 29, 1939, p. 6.

German note to Poland denounced the 10-year non-aggression
treaty of January 26, 1934 between the two countries and
requested the return of Danzig as well as an extraterritorial
railway and highway connection to East Prussia.
New York Times, April 29, 1939, p. 7.

July 26
United States gave notice of intention to abrogate its
commercial treaty of 1911 with Japan in note from the Secretary
of State to the Japanese Ambassador.
Department of State BULLETIN, July 29, 1939, Vol. I, p. 81

August 23
German-U.S.S.R. non-aggression pact signed.
Department of State BULLETIN, August 26, 1939, Vol. I, p. 172.

August 24
President Roosevelt sent appeals for peace to Chancellor Hitler,
President Moscicki, and King Victor Emmanuel.
Department of State BULLETIN, August 26, 1939, Vol. I, pp. 157-
159

August 25
Great Britain and Poland signed formal treaty of mutual
assistance.
Great Britain, Cmd. 6101, AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF
THE UNITED KINGDOM AND THE POLISH GOVERNMENT, LONDON, August 25,
1939, Poland No. 1 (1939).

September 1
German troops invade Poland; Danzig joined Germany.
New York Times, September 1, 1939, p. 1.

September 3
Great Britain declared a state of war existed with Germany.
Great Britain, Cmd. 6106, DOCUMENTS CONCERNING GERMAN-POLISH
RELATIONS AND THE OUTBREAK OF HOSTILITIES BETWEEN GREAT BRITAIN
AND GERMANY ON SEPTEMBER 3, 1939, MISCELLANEOUS No. 9, (1939),
pp. 175, 178.

France declared a state of war existed with Germany.
JOURNAL OFFICIEL DE LA REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE, LOIS ET DECRETS,
September 4, 1939, p 11086.

September 16
Soviet troops invaded Poland.
New York Times, September 17, 1939, p. 1.

September 28
German-U.S.S.R. border and friendship treaty signed, resulting
in partitioning of Poland.
New York Times, September 29, 1939, p. 1.

Estonian-U.S.S.R. 10-year mutual assistance pact signed at
Moscow:  Gave U.S.S.R. bases for aviation and artillery.
Department of State BULLETIN, November 11, 1939, Vol. I, p. 543.

October 3
Declaration of Panama signed.
Department of State BULLETIN, October 7, 1939, Vol. I, p. 331.

October 5
Latvian-U.S.S.R. 10-year mutual-assistance pact signed at Moscow.
Department of State BULLETIN, November 11, 1939, Vol. I, p. 542.

October 10
Lithuanian-U.S.S.R. 15-year mutual-assistance treaty signed at Moscow.
Department of State BULLETIN, December 16, 1939, Vol. I, p. 705

October 19
Anglo-French-Turkish 15-year mutual-assistance pact signed at Ankara.
Department of State BULLETIN, November 11, 1939, Vol. I, p. 544

November 1
Polish Corridor, Posen, and Upper Silesia annexed by Germany.
Department of State BULLETIN, November 4, 1939, p. 458

November 3
U.S.S.R. incorporated Polish Western Ukraine and Western White
Russia.
New York Times, November 4, 1939, p. 5.

November 4
United States Neutrality Act of 1939 approved.
U.S. Statutes at Large, Vol. 54, pt. 1., p. 4.

November 21
German-Slovak treaty signed at Berlin, ceding to Slovakia 225
square miles of territory annexed by Poland in 1920, 1924, and 1938.
New York Times, November 22, 1939, p. 8.

November 30
Soviet troops invaded Finland.
Department of State BULLETIN, December 2, 1939, Vol. I, p. 610


1940

March 12
Soviet-Finnish peace treaty and protocol signed at Moscow.
Department of State BULLETIN, April 27, 1940, Vol. II, p. 453.

April 8
Great Britain and France announced that three areas of Norwegian
waters had been mined in the attempt to prevent shipment of
Scandinavian ore to Germany.
New York Times, April 8, 1940, p. 1

April 9
German troops invade Denmark.
Department of State BULLETIN, April 13, 1940, Vol. II, p. 374.

Germany attacked Norway.
Department of State BULLETIN, April 13, 1940, Vol. II, p. 374.

April 17
Secretary of State Hull issued a formal statement declaring any
change in status quo "would be prejudicial to the cause of
stability, peace and security" in entire Pacific area.
Department of State BULLETIN, April 20, 1940, Vol. II, p.411.

May 9-10
Germany invaded Belgium, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands.
Department of State BULLETIN, May 11, 1940, Vol. II, p.485.

May 10
Winston Churchill became Prime Minister of Great Britain
following resignation of Neville Chamberlain.
New York Times, May 11, 1940, p. 1.

British occupation of Iceland announced in London.
New York Times, May 10, 1940, p. 1.

May 15
The Netherlands Army surrendered.
New York Times, May 15, 1940, p. 1.

May 19
Chancellor Hitler issued a proclamation decreeing the re-
incorporation into the Reich of Eupen, Malmedy, and Moresnet.
New York Times, May 20, 1940, p. 1.

May 28
Belgian Army under King Leopold surrendered.
New York Times, May 29, 1940, p. 1.

June 9
Norwegian high command ordered army to cease hostilities at
midnight.
New York Times, June 11, 1940, p. 16.

June 10
Italy declared war on Great Britain and France.
New York Times, June 11, 1940, p. 2.

June 14
German troops enter Paris.
New York Times, June 15, 1940, p. 1.

June 15
Soviet troops marched into Lithuania.
New York Times, June 16, 1940, p. 1.

June 17
U.S.S.R. announced Estonia and Latvia had agreed to free passage
of troops and to formation of new governments.
New York Times, June 17, 1940, p. 1.

June 22
Franco-German armistice signed.
New York Times, June 26, 1940, p. 4.

June 24
Franco-Italian armistice signed.
New York Times, June 25, 1940, p. 1.

June 27
Rumania agreed to cede Bessarabia to U.S.S.R.
New York Times, June 28, 1940, p. 1.

June 28
British Government recognizes Gen. Charles de Gaulle as leader
of group to maintain French resistance.
New York Times, June 29, 1940, p. 9.

July 3
British sank or seized major part of French fleet.
Great Britain, House of Commons PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES, Vol. 362,
col. 1043.

July 5
French Government of Marshal Petain broke off diplomatic
relations with Great Britain as result of British attack on
French warships at Oran.
New York Times, July 6, 1940, p. 1.

July 18
British Prime Minister announced terms of a temporary agreement
for stoppage of war supplies to China through Burma and Hong Kong.
Great Britain, House of Commons PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES, Vol. 363,
col. 399.

August 25
Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania ratified U.S.S.R. incorporation.
New York Times, August 27, 1940, p. 4.

September 2
United States-British note on lease of British bases in return
for 50 United States destroyers.
Department of State BULLETIN, September 7, 1940, Vol. III, p.
199; March 29, 1941, Vol. IV, p. 387.

September 7
Bulgarian-Rumanian agreement ceding the Dobrudja to Bulgaria
signed at Craiova, Bulgaria.
New York Times, September 8, 1940, p. 45.

September 22
Japanese-French agreement regarding concessions in Indochina to
Japan.
New York Times, September 23, 1940, p. 1.

September 27
German-Italian-Japanese 10-year military-economic alliance pact
signed at Berlin.
New York Times, September 28, 1940, p. 3.

October 28
Italy attacked Greece prior to expiration of ultimatum, creating
state of war.
New York Times, October 29, 1940, p. 1; Department of State
BULLETIN, March 1, 1941, Vol. IV, p. 224;November 16 , 1940,
Vol. III, p. 426

November 4
Spanish incorporation of international zone of Tangier.
New York Times, November 5, 1940, p. 7.

November 20
Hungary signed protocol of adherence to Axis tripartite pact at
Vienna.
New York Times, November 21, 1940, p. 6.

November 23
Rumania signed protocol of adherence to Axis tripartite pact at
Vienna.
New York Times, November 24, 1940, p. 2.

November 24
Slovakia signed protocol of adherence to Axis tripartite pact at
Berlin.
New York Times, November 25, 1940, p. 1.

November 26
Governor-General of Belgian Congo declared state of war with Italy.
New York Times, November 27, 1940, p. 4.

November 30
Japanese peace treaty signed with the Wang Ching-wei regime at
Nanking, China.
New York Times, December 1, 1940, p. 5.; China Weekly Review
(Shanghai), December 7, 1940, pp. 8, 24.

December 6
Japanese-Thai pact of amity signed.
New York Times, December 12, 1940, p. 10.

December 12
Hungarian-Yugoslav treaty of friendship signed.
New York Times, December 13, 1940, p. 5.

January 10
German-Soviet agreements on barter and border matters signed at
Moscow.
New York Times, January 11, 1941, p. 8.

January 30
French Indochinese-Thai armistice signed at Saigon.
New York Times, February 3, 1941, p. 5.

February 10
Great Britain severed diplomatic relations with Rumania.
New York Times, February 11, 1941, p. 1.

February 17
Bulgarian-Turkish declaration of non-aggression signed at Ankara.
New York Times, February 18, 1941, p. 4.

March 1,
Bulgaria signed protocol of adherence to Axis tripartite pact at
Vienna; German troops occupied Bulgaria.
New York Times, March 2, 1941, p. 38.

March 5
Great Britain severed diplomatic relations with Bulgaria.
New York Times, March 6, 1941, p. 2.

March 11
Lend-Lease Act approved by U.S. President, Public Law 11, 77th
Congress.

March 12
Thai-Soviet exchange of notes establishing diplomatic relations.
New York Times, March 13, 1941, p. 6.

March 24
Turkish-Soviet communiqui promising neutrality if either should
be attacked.
New York Times, March 25, 1941, p. 5.

March 25
Yugoslavia signed protocol of adherence to the Axis tripartite
pact at Vienna.
New York Times, March 26, 1941, p. 3.

German war zone extended beyond Iceland.
New York Times, March 26, 1941, p. 1.

March 27
Anti-Axis coup d'itat in Yugoslavia.
New York Times, March 28, 1941, pp. 1, 6.

April 3
Pro-Nazi coup d'itat in Iraq.
New York Times, April 5, 1941, p. 2.

April 5
Yugoslav-Soviet treaty of friendship and non-aggression signed
at Moscow.
New York Times, April 6, 1941, pp. 1, 25.

April 6
Germany attacked Yugoslavia and Greece; Hitler declared war on
Yugoslavia.
New York Times, April 6, 1941, pp. 1, 26.

April 7
Great Britain severed diplomatic relations with Hungary
New York Times, April 8, 1941, p. 1.

April 9
United States-Danish agreement relating to defense of Greenland
by the United States.
Department of State BULLETIN, April 12, 1941, Vol. IV, pp. 443,
445.

April 10
President Roosevelt's proclamation modifying the Red Sea combat
zone.

April 13
Japanese-Soviet five-year neutrality pact signed at Moscow,
together with joint declaration regarding the frontiers of the
Japanese protectorate at Manchukuo.
New York Times, April 14, 1941, p. 8.

April 15
Bulgaria severed diplomatic relations with Yugoslavia.
New York Times, April 16, 1941, p. 3.

April 17
Yugoslav army surrendered.
New York Times, April 18, 1941, p. 1.

April 23
Greece severed diplomatic relations with Bulgaria following
invasion with latter.
New York Times, April 24, 1941, p. 3.

April 24
Bulgarian declaration of a state of war in its occupied areas of
Greece and Yugoslavia.
New York Times, April 25, 1941, p. 5.

April 27
German troops occupied Athens.
New York Times, April 28, 1941, p. 1.

May 2
British-Iraqi fighting began in Iraq.
New York Times, May 3, 1941, p. 1;May 4, 1941, p. 46.

May 6
Joseph Stalin became Soviet Premier.
New York Times, May 7, 1941, p. 1.

May 9
French Indochinese-Thai peace treaty signed at Tokyo, with
Japanese guaranty of new borders.
New York Times, May 9, 1941, p. 8.

May 14
German proclamation of Red Sea danger zone.
New York Times, May 14, 1941, p. 1.

May 15
Italian communiqui on the Croatian monarchy.
New York Times, May 16, 1941, p. 6.

Marshal Petain at Vichy announce replacement of Franco-German
armistice agreement by a new collaboration scheme.
New York Times, May 16, 1941, p. 1.

May 16
Iceland severed personal union with Denmark.
New York Times, May 20, 1941, p. 11; May 21. p. 2.

Iraqi-Soviet exchange of notes at Ankara establishing diplomatic
relations, etc.
New York Times, May 18, 1941, p. 6.

May 21
United States announcement o f German request that foreign
diplomatic agents in Paris evacuate by June 10.
New York Times, May 22, 1941, p. 1.

Sinking of the S.S. Robin Moor, by German submarine in Atlantic
Ocean.
Department of State BULLETIN, June 21, 1941, Vol. IV, p. 741.

May 27
President Roosevelt's proclamation of unlimited national
emergency.
Department of State BULLETIN, May 31, 1941, Vol. IV, p. 654.

May 31
British-Iraqi armistice signed at Baghdad.
New York Times, June 1, 1941, p. 1.

June 2
United States statement of policy respecting French possession
in the Western Hemisphere.
Department of State BULLETIN, June 14, 1941, Vol. IV, p. 720.

June 6
Act authorizing acquisition of idle foreign merchant ships by
the United States approved.
Department of State BULLETIN, June 7, 1941, Vol. IV, p. 701.

June 8
British and Free French troops entered French Syria and Lebanon.
New York Times, June 8, 1941, p. 1; June 9, p. 4.

June 15
Croatia signed Axis protocol respecting its interests.
New York Times, June 16, 1941, p. 3.

June 18
German-Turkish 10-year friendship pact signed at Ankara.
New York Times, June 19, 1941, p. 4.

June 19
Germany and Italy requested United States consular staffs to
evacuate territories under their control by July 15, following
United States request of June 16 for German consular evacuation
by July 10.
New York Times, June 20, 1941, p. 1, 6; Department of State
BULLETIN, June 21, 1941, Vol. IV, p. 743.

June 22
Germany invaded Soviet Union; the latter raided Finland;
Hitler's speech and Ribbentrop's statement on declaration of war
against Soviet Union.
New York Times, June 23, 1941, p. 1, 4.

Italy declared war on Soviet Union.
New York Times, June 23, 1941, p. 5.

Rumanians entered Bessarabia to regain it.
New York Times, June 23, 1941, p. 7.

Slovakia severed diplomatic relations with Soviet Union.
New York Times, June 23, 1941, p. 5.

June 26
Finland announced state of war with Soviet Union.
New York Times, June 27, 1941, p. 1.

June 27
Denmark severed diplomatic relations with Soviet Union.
New York Times, June 28, 1941, p. 2.

Hungary declared war on Soviet Union following latter's air raids.
New York Times, June 28, 1941, p. 2.

June 28
Albania announced state of war with Soviet Union.
New York Times, June 29, 1941, p. 3.

June 30
France (Vichy) severed diplomatic relations with Soviet Union.
New York Times, July 1, 1941, p. 6.

July 1
Icelandic-United States exchange of letter respecting defense of
Iceland.
Department of State BULLETIN, July 12, 1941, Vol. IV, p. 16-18.

July 3
Denmark announced request for United States consular staffs to
evacuate by July 15.
New York Times, July 4, 1941, p. 4.

July 12
British-Soviet mutual-assistance agreement signed at Moscow
Department of State BULLETIN, September 27, 1941, Vol. IV,
p.240.

July 14
British-French Syria-Lebanon armistice signed at Acre,
Palestine.
New York Times, July 16, 1941, p. 4: July 17, p. 3.

July 26
British notice of denunciation of commercial agreements with
Japan.
New York Times, July 27, 1941, p. 13.

July 30
Polish-Soviet agreement of cooperation signed at London.
New York Times, July 31, 1941, p. 4.

United States recognized Czechoslovak government-in-exile at
London.
Department of State BULLETIN, August 2, 1941, Vol. IV, p.88.

August 2
United States-Soviet exchange of notes respecting economic
assistance.
Department of State BULLETIN, August 9, 1941, Vol. IV, pp. 109,
115.

August 12
British-Soviet declaration of aid to Turkey if attacked by
European power.
New York Times, August 13, 1941, p. 1, 3.

August 14
Joint declaration by President Roosevelt and Prime Minister
Churchill i Atlantic Charter.
Department of State Bulletin, August 16, 1941,Vol. V, p. 125.

August 25
British-Soviet troops invaded Iran.
New York Times, Aug. 26,1941, pp. 1,4.

September 9
Iran accepted British-Soviet armistice.
New York Times, September 10, 1941, p. 8.

September 11
President Roosevelt announced shoot-on-sight order to United
States Navy in America defense waters, following U.S.S. Greer
incident of September 4.
Department of State Bulletin, September 13, 1941, Vol. V, p 193.

September 14
Iran ordered departure of Axis diplomats.
New York Times, September 15, 1941, p. 8.

October 16
Successful conclusion of Manchukuo-Outer Mongolia border talks
at Harbin.
New York Times, November 3, 1941, p. 5.

October 19
Afghanistan consented to British-Soviet request for ejection of
Axis nationals.
New York Times, October 20, 1941, p. 6.

November 17
Joint resolution to repeal sections 2, 3, and 6 of the
Neutrality Act of 1939 approved.

November 24
United States announced occupation of Dutch Guiana (Surinam) in
agreement with the Netherlands and Brazil.
Department of State Bulletin, November 29, 1941, Vol. V, p. 425.
United States revocation of export licenses to French North
Africa, Spain, and Tangier.
New York Times, November 27, 1941, pp. 1,7.

November 25
Renewal for five years of the Anti-Comintern Pact of November
25, 1936 at Berlin, by Germany, Japan, Italy, Hungary, Spain,
Manchukuo, Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, Rumania,
Slovakia, and the Nanking regime in China.
New York Times, November 26, 1941, p. 12.

December 1
Reaffirmation by Marshals Petain and Goering of Franco-German
collaboration at St. Florentine.
New York Times, December 2, 1941, p. 1.

December 6
President Roosevelt's message to the Japanese Emperor on the
Pacific conversations.
New York Times, December 8, 1941, p. 8.

British declaration of war against Finland, Hungary, and Rumania.
New York Times, December 7, 1941, p. 19.

December 7 (Dec. 8, 6 A.M. Tokyo time)
Japan attacked the United States and Great Britain and occupied
the International Settlement at Shanghai.
New York Times, December 8, 1941, p. 1, 4; December 9, p. 14.

December 7
Japanese reply rejecting United States note of November 26,
delivered at Washington.
New York Times, December 8, 1941, p. 6.

Japan declared a state of war with the United States and Great
Britain.
New York Times, December 9, 1941, p. 28.

Declaration of war by Netherlands East Indies and Canada against
Japan.
New York Times, December 8, 1941, p. 1;(late edition) p. 14.

December 8
British declared war against Japan.
New York Times, December 9, 1941, p. 14.

United States declared by joint resolution a state of war with
Japan.
New York Times, December 9, 1941, p. 5.

Japan invaded Thailand, which capitulated.
New York Times, December 9, 1941, p. 10.

Declarations of war against Japan by Nicaragua, Honduras, El
Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, the
Netherlands, the Free French, and Panama.
New York Times, December 9, 1941, p. 18, 22; December 10, p. 13

Severance of diplomatic relations with Japan by Mexico,
Colombia, Belgium, and Egypt.
New York Times, December 9, 1941, pp. 18, 22.

December 9
Declarations of war against Japan announced by Australia, South
Africa, and New Zealand; also against Japan, Germany, and Italy
by China.
New York Times (late edition), December 10, 1941, pp. 4, 8.

Costa Rica declared war against Japan.
Department of State BULLETIN, December 13, 1941, Vol. V, p.490.

December 10
Cuba declared war against Japan.
New York Times (late edition), December 11, 1941, p. 13.

December 11
Germany and Italy declared a state of war with the United States.
New York Times, December 12, 1941, p. 1.

United States declared by joint resolutions a state of war with
Germany and Italy.
New York Times, December 12, 1941, p. 1.

Costa Rica, Cuba, Guatemala, Nicaragua, and the Dominican
Republic declared war against Germany and Italy.
Department of State BULLETIN, December 13, 1941, Vol. V, pp.
485-504 passim; New York Times, December 12, 1941, p. 9.

Poland declared a state of war with Japan.
Department of State BULLETIN, December 13, 1941, Vol. IV, p.507.

Mexico severed diplomatic relations with Germany and Italy.
New York Times, December 12, 1941, p. 9.

December 12
Haiti, Panama, and Honduras declared war against Germany and
Italy.
Department of State BULLETIN, December 13 , 1941, Vol. V, pp.
495-504 passim.

Rumania declared a state of war with the United States.
Ibid., p. 483.

December 13
El Salvador declared war against Germany and Italy.
Ibid., p. 493.

Hungary declared a state of war with the United States.
Ibid., p. 482.

Bulgaria declared a state of war against the United States and
the United Kingdom.
Ibid., p. 483.

Transcribed and edited by
Larry W. Jewell
jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 19 Apr 1993 17:14:22 EDT
From:    RICHARD KING <RKING@VUNET.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Addr: Huertgen

John:
I'll try to find the article and mail it to you. If someone
else at the library has checked that issue of AFTER THE BATTLE
out, it may take a while, but I'll see what I can do.
**********************************************************
Richard L. King, Reference Librarian, Vincennes (IN) Univ.
RKING@VUNET.VINU.EDU

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 02:45:58 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Luftwaffe losses to B-17's

On Sat, 17 Apr 1993, Larry Jewell wrote:

> > Today (Sat) on Discovery WINGS, the narrator claimed that more Luftwaffe
> > fighters were shot down by US daytime bombers than US fighters.  Is this
> > true?  I always thought that the bombers had a terrible time dealing with
> > fighters until the long-range US fighters arrived.

I remember that there is/was some outrageous claim that B-17s shot down 23
German aircraft in 1000 missions, the number being only 3 for the
fighters. Victories claimed by the bombers were always highly exaggerated,
simply because a lot of gunners were shooting at one German aircraft and
they all claimed it... Maybe also because they had worse visibility than a
fighter pilot, and were seldom able to check if the aircraft actually went
down.

It is impossible to determine how many Luftwaffe fighters were hit by
bomber gunners and how many by fighters. You would have to build a
reliable link between claims of the crews and the official Luftwaffe
figures known -- numbers that are completely different.

The chances of of bomber gunner to score a good hit on a passing fighter
are not that high, and are very bad for the manually-held waist guns of
the B-17 and B-24. It is not unlikely that the own aircraft, or neighbour
aircraft in the combat box, were hit more often than the Luftwaffe
fighters...  At the end of the war the efficiency of defensive armament on
bombers was so much in doubt that it was removed on the later B-29
versions, soon disappearing almost entirely after the war (except for tail
guns).

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 18 Apr 1993 to 19 Apr 1993
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Status: O

There are 19 messages totalling 1082 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. HUERTGEN FOREST
  2. USAAF 20 APR 43
  3. Terms with Hitler (2)
  4. U505 & radio intercepts (2)
  5. Dispatch from OKW (2)
  6. MEMOIRS
  7. IRELAND (3)
  8. ARTICLE IN INTERNATIONAL HERALD TRIBUNE
  9. John Ausland's Memoirs (3)
 10. Recent acquisitions on byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (fwd)
 11. Full INDEX of byrd.mu.wvnet.edu
 12. BOOK

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 00:06:27 +0000
From:    Jim Budler <jimb47@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: HUERTGEN FOREST

>  Oslo, April 19.  There have been two messages about the Huertgen
>Forest, one from Mike Seningen and the other from Richard King.  My
>interest springs from having been there with the 4th Infantry Division,
>having just published my memoirs about my experiences during World
>War II, including a chapter on the Huertgen, and having just
>revisited the Huertgen.
[...]
>  Regards, John Ausland

You've published your memoirs, and I'm curious why you succeeded in this.
Were you a major policy maker at the time, or were your experiences
particularly well articulated and interesting?

Thousands of veterans have attempted to publish their memories of the war
and relatively few succeeded.

Can you tell us why you succeeded? And will your memoir be available in the US?

jim


--
jim budler
jimb47@netcom.com
also jimb@silvlis.com, jimbudler@aol.com, and 72415.1200@compuserve.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 07:17:42 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 20 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 20 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-18, Douglas Bolo
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force)
    In the Aleutians, 10 bombing and strafing missions by 15 B-24's, 16
B-25's, 10 P-38's, and 32 P-40's hit shipping in the harbor at Kiska and
gun positions in North Head. Other targets include buildings in the Main
Camp area and the runway.

  CARIBBEAN (AAF Antisubmarine Command)
    The 7th Antisubmarine Squadron (Heavy), 26th Antisubmarine Wing based
at Jacksonville, Florida with B-18's begins operating from Edinburgh
Field, Trinidad.

CENTRAL PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Seventh Air Force)
  In the Gilberts, 22 B-24's, from Funafuti, carry out a photo-bombing
mission over Nauru. Several direct hits on runways and the dispersal areas
are claimed.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 8 B-25's bomb the engine sheds at Thazai.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Tunisia, P-40's fly sweeps, reconnaissance, and fighter-bomber
missions as British ground forces take Enfidaville E and push N. Forces on
the left are checked by stubborn enemy resistance at Djebel Garci.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Tunisia, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) B-17's and
B-25's bomb the landing grounds of Mabtouha, La Marsa, La Sebala, Sidi
Ahmed, Creteville, and near Protville. Northwest African Tactical Air
Force (NATAF) fighters fly escort, carry out reconnaissance, and attack
various Tunisian airfields. The Northwest African Coastal Air Force
(NACAF) continues sea patrols and reconnaissance as far-reaching as the
approaches to Naples, Italy.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-17's bomb Wewak, Nubia, and Boram Airfields and
shipping off Wewak. B-24's bomb Kaimana and targets of opportunity on
Kendari Island in the Celebes.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59


----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 08:14:15 -0400
From:    Bob Smart <bsmart@VERDIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Terms with Hitler

> IRT the railway car in which WW I was ended, I had always understood
> that it was transported to a museum in Munich and later destroyed
> in an allied bombing attack.  It would be interesting to find
> out wht really happened to it.
>
> Dale Lally
> St. Lawrence University
> Canton NY
> dlally@stlawu

I am pretty sure I have seen old newsreel footage showing it being blown up
soon after the French surrender in 1940.

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 08:25:12 -0400
From:    Bob Smart <bsmart@VERDIX.COM>
Subject: Re: U505 & radio intercepts

> IRT the capture of U 505 and the ENIGMA machine, I understand that the
> Germans always assumed that such a machine would fall into enemy hands.
> However, since they regularly changed cipher keys, they assumed that
> all info gained via a captured machine would be stale before it would
> ever be decripted.  However, (ta daa) the big computers installed at
> Bletchly Park and in the US were able to crack the German ciphers
> within hours rather than the days or months that the Germans were
> counting on.  I think the biggest problem for our side was in believing
> that the traffic they were getting was really genuine.
>
> Dale Lally  CAPT/USNR
> dlally@stlawu

I recently pulled out Van der Vats _Atlantic Campaign_ and started reading it
again. I looked up U-505 and in his short section about this incident he said
that the one real advantage to the capture was that it showed the allies that
they really were reading messages with the close to the sameaccuracy as the
German U-boats were.

Recently someone was looking for 'post Ultra' histories of WW2 campaigns.
Van der Vat wrote his book with access to the declassified Ultra information.

I'm not ready to make any claims for the book yet but I'll let everyone know
how it turns out. ( I'm looking for a surprise ending :-))

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 08:35:08 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dispatch from OKW

> C. Navy:
>
> The Navy's role against Soviet Russia is, while safeguarding our
> own coast, to prevent an escape of enemy naval units from the
> Baltic Sea.  As the Russian Baltic Sea Fleet, once we have
> reached Leningrad, will be deprived of its last base and will
> then be in a hopeless situation,

  Did AH really expect the Russian Navy to evaporate?  What was the
situation of the Red Fleet at this time?  Did they suffer from the
Purges as much as the Army did?  I know the Kreigsmarine was rather
bottled up in the Baltic so the surface units didn't have much else
to do, but was it really as one-sided as he makes it sound?

> any larger naval operations are
> to be avoided before that time.

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 09:54:59 -0400
From:    Frode Weierud <frode@DXCERN.CERN.CH>
Subject: Re: U505 & radio intercepts

> I recently pulled out Van der Vats _Atlantic Campaign_ and started reading it
> again. I looked up U-505 and in his short section about this incident he said
> that the one real advantage to the capture was that it showed the allies that
> they really were reading messages with the close to the sameaccuracy as the
> German U-boats were.

> Recently someone was looking for 'post Ultra' histories of WW2 campaigns.
> Van der Vat wrote his book with access to the declassified Ultra information.

> I'm not ready to make any claims for the book yet but I'll let everyone know
> how it turns out. ( I'm looking for a surprise ending :-))

> Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

The item of greatest value in the U-505 capture was the Adressbuch
which was used by the German Navy to encrypt Naval Grid references.
Even if the US and British cryptographers  were able to break Naval
Enigma messages with relative ease during this periode, they were often
confused about the exact locations due to this encryption of Grid
references.

Another valuable item was a few documents refering to the experimental
burst communication system Kurier that the German Naval Communication
Division were trying out during this time. This forewarning made it
possible for the signal intelligence groups to get accustomed with this
new technique and to allow for equipment and routines to be developed
in time. Kurier was used by a few U-boats by the end of the war, but
the war was over before a full deployment could be made.

**************************************************************************
*       Frode Weierud           Phone   :       41 22 7674794            *
*       CERN, SL                Fax     :       41 22 7823676            *
*       CH-1211 Geneva  23      E-mail  :       frode@dxcern.cern.ch     *
*       Switzerland                        or   weierud@cernvm.cern.ch   *
**************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 11:00:44 EDT
From:    "William B. Thacker" <wbt@CBEMF.ATT.COM>
Subject: Re: Dispatch from OKW

>   Did AH really expect the Russian Navy to evaporate?  What was the
> situation of the Red Fleet at this time?  Did they suffer from the
> Purges as much as the Army did?

I believe so.  But more to the point, they had never received the funding
or attention of the Red Army.  As a result, they were mostly equipped with
obsolete vessels, and lacking a strong naval tradition ala Britain or
Japan, were third-rate sailors.

That's not to say that they were worthless.  Their submarines, in
particular, contributed to the war efforts, and fleets in both seas added
their strength to shore bombardments, amphibious ops, evacuations, and
supply missions.

> I know the Kreigsmarine was rather
> bottled up in the Baltic so the surface units didn't have much else
> to do, but was it really as one-sided as he makes it sound?

Consider the plight of *any* navy operating in the Baltic without a
friendly port.  Enemy aircraft will be operating from the entire coastline,
sans Sweden.  Ditto torpedo boats, and being a shallow sea, mines are a
constant threat.  If any friendly airpower is available, it will be
operating at long range, and only after penetrating German airspace.

Next, there's the issue of morale, which is tied to the mission.  What's
the fleet going to do?  It can't stay in the Baltic (no bases).  You might
try for Murmansk, probably via Britain, which of course means sailing
through the very heart of German strength.  It makes the Channel Dash look
easy. (Imagine passing the straits at Copenhagen.)

The value of succeeding is also pretty low.  If you make Murmansk, you'll
just spend the rest of the war escorting Allied convoys.  (Think like
Stalin... let the USA and UK escort the convoys, they're their ships!)
The Turks probably won't let you into the Black Sea, where you're really
needed.  Vladivostok, perhaps, to deter the Japanese fleet; on the other
hand, that might *provoke* an attack.

So perhaps another mission.  A suicide run on German shipbuilding
facilities?  Or to block the Kiel Canal?  Very appealing to Stalin,
perhaps, but the sailors aren't going to go for it.

IMO, the most likely fate of the Red Fleet upon the fall of Leningrad would
be scuttling as blockships, to render Kronstadt harbor unusable.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker             AT&T Network Systems       attmail!att!cbemf!wbt
Quality Engineer            Columbus, Ohio              wbt@cbemf.att.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 17:32:38 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: MEMOIRS

Jim Budler sent the following message:
You've published your memoirs, and I'm curious why you succeeded in this.
Were you a major policy maker at the time, or were your experiences
particularly well articulated and interesting?

Thousands of veterans have attempted to publish their memories of the war
and relatively few succeeded.

Can you tell us why you succeeded? And will your memoir be available in the US?
END

I have published my memoirs myself, under the title LETTERS HOME: A WAR
MEMOIR.  The point of departure was the flood of letters I sent to my parents.
I have used those from January, 1944, when I arrived in England, until
September, 1945, when I returned home.  In between, came amphibious train-
ing in England, landing on Utah Beach on D-Day, the liberation of Paris,
winter on the Siegfried Line, the Battle of the Bulge, and the final
offensive to Munich.  In addition to the letters, I used my memory, backed
by considerable research, including in the National Archives.

I have produced the book in camera ready copy with my trusty computer and
laser printer.  A printing company did the picture scanning, the printing,
and the binding.

This has been a highly satisfactory experience.

My book is now on sale here in Norway in bookstores, and I am trying to
make arrangements to market it in England and Germany.  If anyone has
suggestions on this, I would welcome them.  What I want is some organiza-
tion to which I can ship a number of books and will then take on
marketing them.  (I have written to AFTER THE BATTLE in London and
Collectiana at the Wehrtechnischen Museum in Koblenz.)

I am not yet ready to take on the US market but hope to in another couple
months, after the sales on this side of the water peters out.

Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 16:25:34 GMT
From:    Stephen Casey <SCASEY@IRLEARN.UCD.IE>
Subject: Re: IRELAND

Greetings from the one member of the list in Ireland.

I personally don't have any information on the US planes which came down in
Ireland during the war, but if you write to

                            Military Archives,
                            Cathal Brugha Barracks,
                            Rathmines,
                            Dublin 6.

or telephone Dublin 975782 they can give you the details of all crashed planes.

All I can tell you about the fliers were that they (both German and Allied)
were interned in a Military Camp on the Curragh, and were allowed out on
parole on alternate weekends. (the Germans were released one weekend, the
Allies the next). During the period, only one pilot, an American, broke
parole and absconded. When he arrived in Belfast, the British sent him back to
the Republic. Towards the end of the War, the Allied fliers were all released
and sent back to England.



                         Stephen Casey.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 17:37:27 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: ARTICLE IN INTERNATIONAL HERALD TRIBUNE

This the original text of my April 2 IHT article, published under the
headline HERE'S TO ALL MY PEN PALS, COMPUTERIZED AND HUMAN
BEGIN TEXT
Oslo.  There is a new and growing community in the world which knows no
borders.  The members of this group dedicate time most days to helping
each other.  For this, they get no pay, only an occasional thanks.  Few of
them have ever met.
     The members of this mutual help society will know I am talking about
them.  Most others will not even know it exists.  Yet it is no secret.  It
has just developed so quickly and quietly that most people have never
heard of it.
     I am talking about those of us who use our computers to
communicate with each other.  This is made possible by a modem, a clever
device which permits computers to send data over telephone lines.
     There are a number of services available.  I happen to favor
Compuserve, which has its headquarters in Ohio but operates on a global
basis.  I also make extensive use of Internet, a world-wide academic and
research network.  Using these, I can exchange private messages with
millions of other users, as well as participate in conferences.
     Compuserve's 360 page almanac lists well over a hundred forums,
where you can find almost any subject your heart desires.  There you will
find kindred souls, who will be happy to exchange views or give advice.
(A recent addition is a forum run by the Clinton White House, which offers
official texts as well as a place to blow off steam.)
     You can also use Compuserve and Internet to get information which
is otherwise not readily available.  (One of the misplaced fears of electronic
data bases concerns information overload.  This is like refusing to use a
library because it has so many books.  Obviously, one must find a suitable
data base and then know what you are looking for.)
     I can perhaps best illustrate all this by showing you how I have used
these services in connection with a book I have recently published about
my experiences during World War II, Letters Home: a war memoir.
     In doing research for the book, I needed bibliographies about the
battles in which I was involved.  Using an electronic address provided on
an Internet conference on World War II, I was able to contact a computer
at the US Army War College, at Carlisle Barracks, Pennsylvania.  When I
wanted, for example, a bibliography about our landing in Normandy, I sent
a request to the War College computer.  Minutes later, with no human
intervention, the computer sent me a bibliography about Operation Overlord.
(As a side benefit, the Army War College subsequently sent me by mail a
four volume study of Operation Overlord which it was using in a study
course.)
     After printing the bibliography, I noted which books seemed most
interesting.  I then logged on to (connected to) the data base for libraries
here in Norway.  Presto.  In a few minutes I had a list of the books which
interested me which are in Norwegian libraries.
     Over the months, I borrowed six volumes from the history of the US
Army in World War II and several books from a twenty-four volume series
containing interviews with the German generals who commanded the units
we fought.  In addition to a number of biographies of allied generals, I
found a book with transcripts of some of Hitler's meetings with his generals,
as well as one with Eisenhower's letters to Marshall.
     On a conference on Internet, I ran into the electronic mail address of
Ted Hull, who works at the National Archives in Washington, DC.  A
message to him put me in touch with the people handling World War II
documents.  During a visit to Washington, I spent time reading and copying
documents related to my unit, the 4th Infantry Division.
     When going over the letters I wrote to my parents, I kept running into
the names Joe Gude and Ralph Thomas, with whom I shared many
experiences.  Wondering what had happened to them after the war, I logged
on to Compuserve's telephone data base, which has about ninety million
telephone numbers.  Within a few minutes I was talking with Joe Gude and
then Ralph Thomas.
     The book was produced with my computer, using Ventura Publisher
software.  It is a fine program, but unfortunately Ventura does not provide
much support in Norway.  No problem.  I joined the Ventura Forum on
Compuserve and corresponded directly with their experts in the US.
     The people who use the Desktop Publishing Forum were also of great
help.  I developed a lengthy correspondence with Martha LaFleur, of
Lafayette, Louisiana.  She makes a living with her computer but spent quite
a bit of time helping me solve some intricate problems.
     The advice I sought was not just related to using my computer.
Users of the Work Forum had a number of suggestions regarding how to
go about marketing my book.  For example, I learned there is an
organization in the US, Quality Books Inc., which specializes in selling
books to libraries.
     As I was completing the book, a question arose in my mind as to
whether a few things I was saying about other officers might be considered
libelous.  I joined the Law Forum on Compuserve and was soon exchanging
messages with a lawyer with offices in New York.  He guided me through
the mysteries of libel and then reviewed my revised draft.  For this there
was no charge.  Hopefully, if he decides someday to visit Norway, he will
ask me for travel advice.
     As my book progressed, I felt the need to know more about the
German point of view regarding the war.  A German electronic pen pal
whom I have yet to meet, Dr. Werner Klotzbuecher, kindly agreed to read
a draft.  He is well informed about the war, and we exchanged a number
of messages about some of my more controversial statements.
     I will not say that I would not have been able to write the book
without the miracle of electronic mail, but it would certainly have been
much more difficult and the product would have been less complete.
END TEXT
John C. Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 13:06:43 EDT
From:    Andree Webb <ISALW@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject: John Ausland's Memoirs

John,
The clarity of your writing in the IHT article makes me definitely want
to read your memoirs. Be sure to keep us up-to-date with your publishing
efforts. Maybe an enterprising company in Norway could start a mail-order
operation.

Andree Webb
Atlanta

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 12:38:01 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: John Ausland's Memoirs

John, as soon as you can, let us know how we can get a copy of your book.
I'd like one for myself and one for Purdue's library.  Anyone know of
a good mail-order business you can refer to John?

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 13:37:08 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: IRELAND

>
> All I can tell you about the fliers were that they (both German and Allied)
> were interned in a Military Camp on the Curragh, and were allowed out on
> parole on alternate weekends. (the Germans were released one weekend, the
> Allies the next). During the period, only one pilot, an American, broke
> parole and absconded. When he arrived in Belfast, the British sent him back to
> the Republic. Towards the end of the War, the Allied fliers were all released
> and sent back to England.

  Can you give a reference or approximate date for this.  I'd like to see
if the U.S. newspapers followed this story and how they reacted.  Interesting
situation.  I'm suprised that only one parolee bolted.  I personally find
confinement so *confining* :-).

>                          Stephen Casey.

  Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 20:30:00 +0100
From:    Mike Hoffmann <Mike.Hoffmann@AP.MCHP.SNI.DE>
Subject: Re: John Ausland's Memoirs

> John, as soon as you can, let us know how we can get a copy of your book.
> I'd like one for myself and one for Purdue's library.  Anyone know of
> a good mail-order business you can refer to John?

I expect the book to be out in Norwegian and English first? As John
has spoken of corresponding with Germans, as well, is there any hope of
a German edition?

Not that I'd have difficulty with the language, but with the ease of getting
a copy. Far simpler (and cheaper) than trying to get an import.

Mike

PS: I'm also a bit confused on the tremendous amount of sources available
to Mr. Ausland. Which of these are available from the Internet - and how
many are still locked from access by non-US citizens. (I've heard this can
happen - I hope I'm mistaken)

--
Mike Hoffmann - Internet Administrator, Siemens-Nixdorf AG, SNI AP 712
INTERNET: Mike.Hoffmann@ap.mchp.sni.de
... the space race is over. (Dr. Richard O'Toole, JPL)
... and all contestants quit before reaching the finish-line (me)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 13:44:41 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Recent acquisitions on byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (fwd)

Here's the latest additions to "byrd" ftp site.  If any of you good people
want any of the files listed here, or in the full index I will post separately
please send me a note.  If there's enough demand, I'll post the files to the
list, otherwise I'll email directly to you.  Only files that fall under the
charter of the list will be posted to the list.

I send the files I digitize to byrd to save traffic on the list, however, if
the list would prefer, I can post new additions that are relevant to the
charter here.  Thoughts?

Larry J

Forwarded message:
>From YEA003@muvms3.mu.wvnet.edu Tue Apr 20 13:33:51 1993
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 14:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael J. McCarthy" <YEA003@muvms3.mu.wvnet.edu>

        NOTE:  Please note #5 below if you have gotten or intended to get a
copy  the Combat Area Casualties File.

        As always, many thanks to Larry Jewell for his contributions.

-------------
Mike McCarthy                   "It is a principle that shines impartially on
Marshall Univ. History Dept.    the just and on the unjust that once you have
Huntington, WV 25755, USA       a point of view all history will back you up."
YEA003@Marshall.WVNET.EDU               -Van Wyck Brooks
YEA003@MARSHALL                          AMERICA'S COMING OF AGE (1915)



Recent acquisitions on byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152):


1.   The file museums.txt in the pub/history/maritime subdirectory
     contains a listing of Naval and Maritime Museums.

2.   The file u-2.txt in the pub/history/diplomatic/coldwar
     subdirectory contains documents relating to the U-2 Incident
     of May 1960.

3.   The file naval_limit.txt in the pub/history/diplomatic/
     united_states/1921-1939 subdirectory contains documents
     relating to the Naval Limitation Treaty of 6 Feb 1922.

4.   The files in the pub/history/military/united_states/ucmj
     subdirectory contain subchapters 1 through 12 of the US
     Uniform Code of Military Justice.

5.   The Combat Area Casualties Files (in the pub/history/military/
     vietnam/kia_mia subdirectory) have been removed because they
     contained errors and inaccuracies.  When the corrected
     versions of the files are obtained, they will be placed in
     this subdirectory.

6.   The file aef_mia_pow.txt in the pub/history/military/wwi
     subdirectory contains the Senate Report on POW/MIAs in World
     War I.

7.   The file pearl_harbor.txt in the pub/history/military/wwii
     subdirectory contains documents relating to the Japanse attack
     on Pearl Harbor.

8.   The file chrono_1938-41.txt contains a chronology of events
     from 1938 - 1941.

9.   The files in the pub/history/military/wwii/sept_1939
     subdirectory contain documents relating to the reaction of the
     European Powers to the German invasion of Poland on 1
     September 1939.

10.  The file soviet_neut.txt in the pub/history/military/wwii
     subdirectory contains documents relating to the Soviet
     Neutrality Pact with Japan and eventual declaration of war.

11.  The file tripartite.txt in the pub/history/military/wwii
     subdirectory contains documents relating to the Tripartite
     Pact.

12.  The file kennedy.inaug in the pub/history/political/
     united_states/presidency subdirectory contains John F.
     Kennedy's inaugural address.

13.  The file cshw860a.zip in the pub/history/utilities
     subdirectory contains the compressed files of CShow version
     8.60a, a mouse-compatible GIF and JPG viewer for DOS.

14.  The file pkzip204g.exe in the pub/history/utilties
     subdirectory contains the self-extracting compressed files of
     PKZip version 2.04g.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 14:07:20 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <jewell@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Full INDEX of byrd.mu.wvnet.edu

FILE INDEX FOR HISTORY FTP SITE:

BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU
129.71.32.152
pub/history

Managers:
Mike McCarthy, Marshall Univ. (YEA003@Marshall.WVNET.Edu)
Donna Spindel, Marshall Univ. (HST001@Marshall.WVNET.Edu)

Honorary Manager and Major Contributor:
Larry Jewell (jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu)


UPDATE: 20 April 1993

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history:
INDEX               Index of files and directories on
                    byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (this file)
diplomatic          Subdir: diplomatic history
ethnic              Subdir: ethnicity history
general             Subdir: history as a discipline & profession
instruction         Subdir: teaching history (syllabi, exams,
                    etc)
internet            Subdir: use of internet in research
marshall            Subdir: files specific to Marshall Univ.
                    History Dept.
maritime            Subdir: maritime/naval history
military            Subdir: military history
political           Subdir: political / government
submissions         Subdir: submissions from anonymous ftp users
                    (write access to all anonymous ftp)
utilities           Subdir: utility programs (pkunzip, uudecode,
                    cshow, etc.)
women               Subdir: women's history

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/diplomatic:
coldwar             Subdir: Coldwar diplomatic history
united_states       Subdir: US diplomatic history

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/diplomatic/coldwar:
u-2.txt             Documents relating to the U-2 Incident, May
                    1960

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/diplomatic/united_states:
1921-1939           Subdir: Period 1921-1939 (interwar years)
greenville.txt      Text of Treaty of Greenville (1795)
monroe-doctrine.txt Text of Monroe Doctrine
neutral_procl.txt   Text of Neutrality Proclamation (1793)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/diplomatic/united_states/1921-1939:
hemi_def.txt        Text of Dept. of State Bulletin on Hemisphere
                    Defense, 8/18/40
lend-lease.act      Text of Lend Lease Act (1941)
naval_limit.txt     Documents relating to the Naval Limitation
                    Treaty, 6 February 1922
neutrality.act_37   Text of Neutrality Act (1937)
neutrality.act_39   Text of Neutrality Act (1939)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/ethnic:
african-american    Subdir: African-American history
native-american     Subdir: Native-American history

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/ethnic/african-american:
emanc_procl.txt     Text of Emancipation Proclamation (1862)

i-have-a-dream.txt  Test of King's "I Have a Dream" speech (1963)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/ethnic/native-american:
greenville.txt      Text of Treaty of Greenville (1795)
iroquois_const.txt  Text of Iroquois Constitution
iroquois_readme.txt Commentary to accompany Iroqouis Const.

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/general:
chair_newsletter    Subdir: issues of Dept. Chair Newsletter, M.
                    Galgano, ed.
dept_ranks.txt      US News detailed ranking of History Ph.D.
                    depts

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/general/chair_newsletter:
issue31.txt         Text of issue 31

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/instruction:
exams               Subdir: sample history exams
mu_hst500           Subdir: for use by Marshall's methods course
syllabi             Subdir: sample history course syllabi

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/instruction/exams:
us_survey2a.exm     US Survey II (Since 1877) exam (McCarthy)
us_survey2b.exm     US Survey II (Since 1877) exam (McCarthy)
us_survey2c.exm     US Survey II (Since 1877) exam (McCarthy)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/instruction/syllabi:
am_revolution.syl   American Revolution syllabus (Spindel)
marshall            Subdir: Current Marshall Univ. courses
us_legal.syl        United States Legal History syllabus
                    (Spindel)
us_survey1a.syl     US Survey I (To 1877) syllabus (Spindel)
us_survey2a.syl     US Survey II (Since 1877) syllabus (McCarthy)
us_survey2b.syl     US Survey II (Since 1877) syllabus (McCarthy)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/internet:
h-net.lists         BITNET lists of interest to historians
history.network     Charter of History Network
history_ftp         Subdir: FTP sites of interest to historians
inet.services       Catalog of special internet services (Archie,
                    Baseball scores, CARL, etc.)
internet.faq1       Frequently Asked Questions about internet
                    (#1)
internet.faq2       Frequently Asked Questions about internet
                    (#2)
libraries           Subdir: Addresses of TELNET accessible
                    libraries (US & UK)
listserv.database   Instructions for LISTSERVER database searches
whatis.internet     Description of internet and its uses

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/internet/history_ftp:
byrd.catalog        BYRD archive at Marshall Univ.
                    (byrd.mu.wvnet.edu; "cd pub/history")
cpet.catalog        Catalog of Projects in Electronic Text
                    archive at Georgetown Univ.
                    (guvax.georgetown.edu; "cd
                    CPET_PROJECTS_IN_ELECTRONIC_TEXT")
gheta.catalog       Groningen Historical Electronic Text Archive
                    at the Univ. of Groningen (tyr.let.rug.nl;
                    "cd pub/gheta")
malin.catalog       MALIN archive at Univ. Kansas
                    (kuhub.cc.ukans.edu; "cd dua9:[MALIN]")
ra.catalog          RA archive at Mississippi State University
                    (ra.msstate.edu; "cd pub/docs/history")
rutgers.catalog     US Army Air Force archive at Rutgers
                    (ftp.rutgers.edu; "cd pub/wwii/usaf")
sunsite.catalog     Sunsite at Univ. North Carolina
                    (sunsite.unc.edu; "cd pub/academic")

*DIRECOTORY OF pub/history/internet/libraries:
library.catalog     Catalog of US (and some international)
                    TELNET-accessible libraries
uk-libs.catalog     Catalog of TELNET-accessible libraries in the
                    United Kingdom

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/maritime:
museums.txt         Listing of Naval & Maritime Museums

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military:
am_revolution       Subdir: American revolution
united_states       Subdir: US Military History
vietnam             Subdir: Vietnam War
wwi                 Subdir: World War I
wwii                Subdir: World War II

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/am_revolution:
decl_arms.txt       Text of Declaration of Arms (1775)
paris_1783.txt      Text of Treaty of Paris (1783)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/united_states:
ucmj                Subdir: Uniform Code of Military Justice

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/united_states/ucmj:
uc_README           Readme file describing directory contents
(other files)       Text files with subchapters of Uniform Code of
                    Military Justice

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/vietnam:
diem_letters.txt    Letters to Ngo Dinh Diem from Eisenhower
                    (11/15/54) and Kennedy (1/1/62)
kia_mia             Subdir: Combat Area Casualties File Database
pow_mia             Subdir: POW/MIA files
tonkin_gulf.txt     Text of LBJ's Speech to Congress and Tonkin
                    Gulf Resolution
vets_against.txt    Senate Testimony of John Kerry, Vietnam Vets
                    Against the War, 4/23/71
white_paper.txt     Text of Dept. of State White Paper on Vietnam
                    (2/27/65)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/vietnam/kia_mia:
00_README           Key to database fields
(other files)       The rest of the directory consists of the
                    files from the Combat Area Casualties File for
                    the Vietnam War.  The files are divided by
                    state or US territory to facilitate
                    downloading.  Standard post office
                    abbreviations are used for the filenames (ex:
                    wv.asc or oh.asc).

                    **NOTE:  The files in this subdirectory
                    contained errors and inaccuracies.  They have
                    been deleted until the corrected version of
                    the database can be obtained.


*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/vietnam/pow_mia:
00_README           File index for POW/MIA files
(other files)       The rest of the directory consists of the
                    Senate POW/MIA report, divided into ASCII
                    files of less than 64k each.  Assemble each
                    file in the order they appear in this
                    directory for the entire report.  See
                    00_README for individual descriptions of each
                    file.

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/wwi:
aef_mia_pow.txt     Senate Report on WWI POW/MIAs
aefplan.biblio      Bibliography on US military planning for WWI
                    (from AEFplan.txt, McCarthy)
aefplan.txt         MA Thesis on US military planning for WWI
                    (includes bibliography, McCarthy)
chronology.txt      Chronology of WWI (emphasis on US military
                    planning)
gpo_wwi.txt         Publications on WWI available from the US
                    Govt. Printing Office
wilson_c-in-c.art   Paper from Mid-America History Conference,
                    9/92, on Woodrow Wilson as Commander-in-Chief
                    (McCarthy)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/wwii:
atlantic_char.txt   Text of the Atlantic Charter
cairo_conf.txt      Text of Cairo Conference Agreement
casablanca_conf.txt Text of Casablanca Conference Agreement
chrono_1938-41.txt  Chronology of events from 1938 - 1941
fdr_4_freedoms.txt  Text of Roosevelt's "4 Freedoms" speech
                    (1/6/41)
fdr_8_dec.txt       Text of Roosevelt's speech on 12/8/41 ("date
                    which will live in infamy")
ger_surrender.txt   Text of German surrender
gpo_wwii.txt        Publications on WWII available from the US
                    Govt. Printing Office
jap_surrender.txt   Text of Japanese surrender
moscow_conf.txt     Text of Moscow Conference Agreement
north_africa.txt    Text of Roosevelt's Statement on North Africa
                    Policy on 11/17/42
peace_our_time.txt  Text of Chamberlain's speech on 9/30/39
                    ("peace in our time")
pearl_harbor.txt    Documents relating to Japanese attack on Pearl
                    Harbor
sept_1939           Subdir: Documents relating to the reactions of
                    European Powers to German invasion of Poland
soviet_neut.txt     Documents relating to Soviet neutrality with
                    Japan
tripartite.txt      Documents relating to Tripartite Pact
us_dec_germany.txt  Text of US declaration of war on Germany
us_dec_japan.txt    Text of US declaration of war on Japan
usaaf               Subdir: Chronologies of USAAF in WWII
yalta_conf.txt      Text of Yalta Conference Agreement

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/wwii/sept_1939:
fr_reaction.txt     French reaction to German invasion of Poland
ger_reaction.txt    German reaction to British ultimatum
uk_reaction.txt     British reaction to German invasion of Poland

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf:
dec_42.txt          USAAF chronology for December 1942
feb_43.txt          USAAF chronology for February 1943
jan_43.txt          USAAF chronology for January 1943
mar_43.txt          USAAF chronology for March 1943

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political:
france              Subdir: France
macedonia           Subdir: Republic of Macedonia
united_kingdom      Subdir: United Kingdom
united_states       Subdir: United States of America

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/france:
rights-of-man.txt   Text of Declaration of Rights of Man (1789)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/macedonia:
macedonia.const     Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united-kingdom:
magna-carta.txt     Text of Magna Carta

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states:
17th_century        Subdir: 17th Century
18th_century        Subdir: 18th Century
19th_century        Subdir: 19th Century
20th_century        Subdir: 20th Century
presidency          Subdir: The US Presidency (inaugrals, etc)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states/17th_century:
fund_ord_1639.txt   Text of Fundamental Orders (1639)
mayflower.txt       Text of Mayflower Compact (1620)
thanksgiving.txt    Text of First Thanksgiving Proclamation (1676)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states/18th_century:
annapolis.txt       Text of Annapolis Convention (1786)
art_confed.txt      Text of Articles of Confederation (1777, 1781)
bill_rights.txt     Text of Bill of Rights
charlotte.txt       Text of Charlotte Town Resolves (1775)
const_amends.txt
const_trans.txt     Text of Transmittal of Constitution (1787)
constitution.txt
cont_cong_res.txt   Text of Continental Congress Resolves (1777)
decl_indep.txt      Text of Declaration of Independence (1776)
nw_ord.txt          Text of Northwest Ordinance (1787)
va_decl_right.txt   Text of Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states/19th_century:
emanc_procl.txt     Text of Emancipation Proclamation (1862)
gettysburg.txt      Text of Gettysburg Address

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states/20th_century:
warpowers.act       Text of Warpowers Act (1973)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/political/united_states/presidency:
angelou_poem.txt    Text of Maya Angelou's Poem at Clinton's
                    Inaugural, 1993
jefferson.inaug     Text of Jefferson's Inaugural Address
kennedy.inaug       Text of Kennedy's Inaugural Address
lincoln.inaug       Text of Lincoln's Inaugural Address
washington.farewell Text of Washington's Farewell Address

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/utilities:
cshw833.zip         BINARY: CShow (.GIF graphics file viewer,
                    DOS)
cshw860a.zip        BINARY: CShow v 8.60a (.GIF and .JPG graphics
                    file viewer, DOS)
pkpak.exe           BINARY: File compressor (.ARC files, DOS)
pkunpak.exe         BINARY: File decompressor (.ARC files, DOS)
pkzip204g.exe       BINARY: Self extracting copy of file
                    compressor and decompressor, PKZip v. 2.04g
                    (.ZIP files, DOS)
uudecode.exe        BINARY: File ASCII encoder (.UUE files, DOS)
uuencode.exe        BINARY: File ASCII decoder (.UUE files, DOS)

*DIRECTORY OF pub/history/women:
tx_womens_univ.txt  Information on Texas Women's University
                    Library Newsletter, DATA ENTRIES, available
                    electronically

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 15:21:45 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: Re: IRELAND

As I said in my original post, one story I read many years ago was
that General Bedell (sp?) Smith, Eisenhower's Chief of Staff, was
on his way back to the U.S. from England when the aircraft went
down in the Republic of Ireland.  Officially, he should have been
interned for the duration of the war but in actual fact, he was
taken to the border of Ulster and let go.  I will have to check my
old Irish stuff to see if I can find this again.

During one of my jaunts through Ireland, my wife and I stumbled
upon a cemetary for German military personnel who died in Ireland
during the war.  I believe it was south of Dublin but would not
stake my life, or paycheck, on it.  It was a small cemetary but very
well kept and in excellent taste but I was still surprised to find
it.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 21:55:53 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: BOOK

  Oslo, April 20.  I appreciate the interest shown in my book.  When I
said I was not yet ready to take on the US market, I meant that I am
not yet ready to advertise in such places as the 4th Division Association
quarterly, where I expect to get a number of orders.  This does not
mean that I cannot handle a limited number of mail orders.  I have in
fact already sent flyers to friends in the US and elsewhere in Europe
who have expressed an interest.  (One of my rooms looks like a post
office.)
  I will be glad to mail a flyer to anyone who thinks he might be
interested in purchasing the book.  To avoid surprises, I will note
the book costs $25.  To ship it to the US by B Economy, which takes
two or three weeks, costs $10.  A Priority Airmail costs $17.  (In
Europe, the costs are $5 B Economy and $10 A Airmail.)  I ask for
payment with a dollar check with the order.
  I should also note the book has an A4 (11.75 by 8.25 inch) format
and an unconventional layout, with maps, pictures, boxes, and
sidebars.  (The experts here, including the head of the Scandinavian
University Press, have commended the results.)
  In order to proceed in an orderly fashion, I would be glad to
mail a flyer to anyone sending me his mailing address.  Messages
can be directed to either of the following:
        CIS: 73240,2704
        Internet: d_ausland_j@kari.uio.no
  For Robert Granvin, I appreciate the offer but am reluctant to
get involved with a publisher.  I have published books before and
find publishers and editors have their ideas about how a book should
look and what it should contain.  I wanted this to be MY book and
hence found it best to publish it myself.  On the other hand, I
am always willing to listen.
  For Mike Hoffman, the book is in English and will not be published
in Norwegian.  My correspondence with Germans is directed toward
finding someone who will market the book in Germany.  There is no
printed information I have used which is not available to you, if
you know how to go about getting it.  The most difficult are the
National Archives, which makes molasses look speedy.  The only way
to get things quickly is to go there.
  Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Apr 1993 15:05:00 PST
From:    Stephen Fox <FOXS@AXE.HUMBOLDT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Terms with Hitler

In 1991 I visited the site outside of Compiegne.  Fascinating, but not
easy to find.  The official answer provided there is that the Germans
destroyed the original car shortly after the signing in June 1940.

Now, they do have a replacement car that is housed permanently in
a rather small building.  We happened to arrive on the only day
that the museum is closed, but my wife and I boosted my sister-in-
law (both are Belgian and speak fluent French) up to a window where
by tapping she got the attention of the janitor.  This pleaseant
and pliant fellow readily agreed to take my camera and photograph
the car from various angles.  We took turns at the window, now
opened by the janitor, so I got a good look at it.  Shiny mahogany;
rich upholstery; various armaments and flags on display.  So, I
have several satisfactory pictures, as well as a grand one of
my sis-in-law dangling by her fintertips from the window!

I also found the slab in the center of the clearing to be a fadcinating
reminder of the hatred the French had toward Germany, 1914-18.  The
inscription (in French, of course) refers to the rising of the people
over the criminal German machine - well, I can't do it justice, but
had I been a German in 1940 I might have found some saitsfaction
ex
********************************************
*       Steve Fox                          *
*       History Department                 *
*       Humboldt State University          *
*       Arcata, CA  95521                  *
*       (707) 826-4788                     *
*       foxs@axe.humboldt.edu              *
********************************************
in the symbolism of the occasion chosen by Hitler.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 19 Apr 1993 to 20 Apr 1993
*************************************************

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Status: O

There are 15 messages totalling 578 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. IRELAND
  2. USAAF 21 APR 43 (2)
  3. about my father (2)
  4. USAAF 17 APR 43 (3)
  5. BOOK (2)
  6. INFO: Italian Navy: Genoa and Cape of Matapan
  7. BOOK FLYER
  8. MEMBERS (2)
  9. National Archives FTP Site

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 11:12:44 GMT
From:    Stephen Casey <SCASEY@IRLEARN.UCD.IE>
Subject: Re: IRELAND

On Tue, 20 Apr 1993 15:21:45 -0400 <jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM> said:
>
>During one of my jaunts through Ireland, my wife and I stumbled
>upon a cemetary for German military personnel who died in Ireland
>during the war.  I believe it was south of Dublin but would not
>stake my life, or paycheck, on it.  It was a small cemetary but very
>well kept and in excellent taste but I was still surprised to find
>it.

This cemetary is in Glencree, in the Wicklow mountains, about 12 miles south
of Dublin. The reason so many German personnel are buried there is that if a
plane was badly damaged on a raid on the western side of Britain the crew
had a better chance of making land in Ireland then getting back to the
Continent. Most of those buried were either dead before the plane made land
or else died of their wounds soon after.  German crews also probably felt
that they would be better treated in a neutral country.

The German Government/Embassey still looks after the Cemetary.

                       Stephen Casey.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 07:20:24 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 21 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 21 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  Liberator, Consolidated (RAF)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, Commander North Pacific Forces (NORPACFOR) places all
Army and Navy Air Forces [Task Group (TG) 16.1] under Brigadier General
William O. Butler, Commanding General Eleventh Air Force. The Army Air
Striking Unit (Eleventh Air Force) is designated Task Unit 16.1.1 (TU
16.1.1) and the Naval Air Search Unit (Patrol Wing Four) is designated TU
l6.l.2.
  Two P-38's take off for Kiska but abort the mission.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 8 B-25's bomb the railroad yards at Maymyo, and 9 more bomb
the area around the Myitnge bridge.
    In Thailand, 16 B-24's are dispatched to bomb the Bangsue Arsenal and
other targets in Bangkok, but only 4 reach the target area and loose
bombs over the city.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Italy, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, bomb Naples.
    In Tunisia, P-40's bomb and strafe barges along the coast. The British
Eighth Army meets such fierce opposition at Takrouna that General
Montgomery decides to confine the offensive to the coastal region.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Tunisia, weather prevents completion of any missions by the
Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF). Northwest African Tactical
Air Force (NATAF) fighters and A-20's hit landing grounds and military
traffic on roads, fly sweeps and armed reconnaissance, and attack
ground forces and aircraft in the Medjez el Bab-Goubellat area where an
enemy counterattack by armored and infantry columns during the night of
20/21 Apr ends in costly failure.
    The 346th and 347th Fighter Squadrons, 350th Fighter Group with P-39's
swap bases; the 346th moves from La Senia, Algeria to Orleansville,
Algeria; the 347th moves from Orleansville to Le Sers, Tunisia.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-25's bomb Kaimana and Laga. Single B-17's attack
coastal villages in NE New Guinea and hit Ubili and Gasmata in the
Bismarck Archipelago.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59


----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 07:53:54 EST
From:    Mike Long <MLONG@UCONNVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: USAAF 21 APR 43

>WEDNESDAY, 21 APRIL 1943
>CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS
>
>  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
>    In Burma, 8 B-25's bomb the railroad yards at Maymyo, and 9 more bomb
>the area around the Myitnge bridge.

For several weeks now I've been reading Jack's chronologies about the efforts
to destroy the Myitnge bridge. (How ARE you supposed to pronouce it anyway?)
Would someone care to be a bit more explicit about why this particular bridge
was so hard to destroy? Was it that thoughly defended? How many aircraft
casualties did the Allies take? How many total missions were sent before the
bridge was knocked out, assuming it was?

Just curious......
Thanks,
Mike Long MLONG@UCONNVM

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 09:07:20 EDT
From:    Debby <DHAYNES@UGA.BITNET>
Subject: about my father

I have just discovered this list. And have a question for you. My
father, Wiley T. Harrison, served in World War II. I know he was at Los
Alamos. He talked about the development of the first atomic bomb. And I
have a certificate to him signed by the Secretary of War. It's dated 6
August 1945. It's for service with the Manhatten District. That's all I
know about his service out there. My father died in 1979. If any of you
were out there, I'd like to hear from you. I'd like to know more about
what life was like for my father out there. If you wouldn't mind sharing
thoughts or memories of that I'd love to know more about it.

Please respond to my e-mail address: DHAYNES@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU

I want to thank you in advance for anything anyone can tell me. Since my
father is gone, maybe some of you can help me know what he did.

Deborah Haynes
Computer Services
800 Wheatley St.
Georgia Southwestern College 31709-4693
(912) 928-1230   GIST 345-1230
INTERNET:  DHAYNES@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 09:36:59 -0400
From:    "M. Joseph Barone" <m1b@RAYSSD.SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: Re: USAAF 17 APR 43

> SATURDAY, 17 APRIL 1943
>
> EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
>   VIII Bomber Command Mission Number 52: 115 B-17's are dispatched against
> the Focke-Wulf factory at Bremen, Germany the Eighth Air Force's largest
> mission to date. A mass of fighters attacks during bomb run, shooting down
> 15 while flak claims another. We claim 63-15-17 Luftwaffe aircraft; 39
> B-17's are damaged; casualties are 2 KIA, 4 WIA and 159 MIA.

        This is a trivial question: what does the 63-15-17 above mean?
My guess is 63 destroyed, 15 probable, 17 damaged.  If that is the case,
how accurate are these figures?  They seem rather high to me.  This could
shed some light on the claim that B-17s downed the most fighters, though.
Losing 16 out of 115 B-17s is also a pretty nasty statistic.
--
Joe Barone
m1b@rayssd.ssd.ray.com
I cut you on everyt'ing; I don't need you!  Sixty
feet of bridge I can pick up almost anywhere!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 18:19:09 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: BOOK

  Oslo, April 21.  Again, let me say I appreciate the interest in
my book and the suggestions I am getting.
  I am sending flyers to Ray Villalobos, Richard King, and Steve
Fox, who have provided their mailing addresses.
  Ray, for those in the US, payment is no problem.  You can
do it with a check on your bank.  I have an account in Washington,
DC.  (Payment by people outside the US, who do not have US accounts,
is another matter and requires some discussion of options.)
  For Robert Granvin, as you will have gathered by now, I already
have a publisher who is very cooperative (myself).  If, after
someone shows him my book, a publisher wants to make me an offer,
I will consider it.  (This is the advantage of being retired on
a State Department pension - smile.)
  I would have glad to have you republish my IHT article,
if you think it would be useful.
  For Steve Fox, someone else has suggested I put my book on tape,
and I have this in the back of my mind.  I am, however, discussing
with a fellow on Compuserve putting it on disk and do not want
to get myself overextended.  (I am sceptical about the disk idea
but am curious enough to pursue the discussion.)  Perhaps we can
come back to the tape idea later.
  Yes, I am aware that Knowledge Index is now on Compuserve and
also have been using it for many years.
  As to Kari, this is a frequent girls name here.  My Norwegian
wife has a number of friends called Kari, which can make a
conversation with her confusing.  "Else, which Kari?"  The
university computer center gives each of its computers a person's
name.  The one I used happens to be called Kari, which can cause
further confusion.
  Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 11:24:43 -0400
From:    "M. Joseph Barone" <m1b@RAYSSD.SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: INFO: Italian Navy: Genoa and Cape of Matapan

        During the winter of 1940-41, activities of Italian battleships were
reduced.  Both "Littorio" and "Duilio" were undergoing repairs from damage
incurred the previous November at Taranto; the former still at Taranto, the
latter in Genoa.  Salvage work on "Cavour" continued at Taranto as well, but
it was estimated that she would not be refloated until the summer.  "Doria"
had completed training and was operational along with "Veneto".  "Cesare" had
been damaged in January, during an air raid on Naples, and was transferred to
Genoa for repairs that would last three months.

        At dawn, on February 9, 1941, Force H from Gibraltar, under Admiral
Sommerville, consisting of the battleship "Malaya", battlecruiser "Renown",
carrier "Ark Royal", a cruiser and ten destroyers, bombarded Genoa for half
an hour.  The targets included shipyards, factories, and "Duilio", still
under repair.

        Italian assessments indicated that such an attack was possible
and a force had previously been sent to sea, including "Veneto", "Doria",
"Cesare", three heavy cruisers and ten destroyers, to counter the British.
However, due to poor weather and communications, the Italian units were too
far south and, despite the favorable situation, were unable to intercept
the British.

        The British shelling sank some cargo ships but no other major damage
was sustained.  However, the audacity of the action was in keeping with the
best traditions of the British Navy.  Moreover, Italian morale suffered and
the incident again highlighted the navy's ineffective communications and
poor naval-air force cooperation.

        Little more than a month later, while controversy still swirled
around the shelling of Genoa, the Italian Navy suffered a significant
setback, perhaps its worse defeat at sea during the war.  In a brief night
action, at close range, the 1st Cruiser Division, consisting of three
heavy cruisers of the "Zara" class, along with two destroyers, was sunk.

        Under German pressure, a cruiser sweep of the Eastern Mediterranean
was planned, with the goal of interdicting convoy traffic between Egypt and
Greece. The Germans argued (incorrectly) that British battleships would not
be available to oppose the sweep.  Italy, dependent on Germany for oil, had
already used up half of its strategic reserve, and therefore bowed to the
pressure of its Axis partner.  The Germans committed themselves to cooperate
in providing air cover for the operation.

        The Italian force was made up of "Veneto", providing heavy cover,
eight cruisers and thirteen destroyers.  On the morning of March 28, 1941,
they neared the small island of Gavdo, near the Cape of Matapan, and came
into contact with four British light cruisers and eight destroyers.  These
were the British light forces, acting as scouts for the Mediterranean fleet,
which was made up of the battleships "Warspite", "Valiant", and "Barham", the
armored cruiser "Formidable", and nine destroyers under Admiral Cunningham.
He was aware that the Italian units were at sea and he was spoiling for a
fight, with the "Veneto" as his main target.

        The four British cruisers were sighted by three Italian cruisers
and turned southward, staying out of range, hoping to draw the Italians
into the British heavy forces.  After an hour, the Italians reversed course
with the same objective and the British took the bait.  "Veneto" then
appeared from the northwest and opened fire, taking the British by surprise.
Once they realized they were under battleship fire, the British again turned
southwards, hoping to draw the Italians into the oncoming heavy fleet.  Air
strikes were launched from "Formidable" and from land bases and Admiral
Iachino realized he had lost the element of surprise and decided to return
home.

        The British could not catch the Italians at their maximum speed
and so launched further air strikes, hoping to damage and slow them.
Late in the afternoon, "Veneto" was hit portside near the screws by an
air-launched torpedo.  The outboard shaft broke and the port propeller
sheared off.  Flooding was extensive and power was initially lost, but
the ship was able to get under way again a few minutes later, working up
to 19 knots and proceeding home.  Despite the German promises, calls for
fighter protection were in vain throughout the day.  Calls for assistance
from the Regia Aeronautica also were fruitless.  At dusk, during another
British air strike, the heavy cruiser "Pola" took a torpedo hit and
stopped dead in the water.  Admiral Iachino was unaware that the British
battle fleet was in close proximity, again being badly served by
reconnaissance and intelligence.  He ordered the heavy cruisers "Zara"
and "Fiume" and four destroyers to stand by and assist "Pola".

        On the other hand, Admiral Cunningham had a good appreciation of
the general situation thanks to effective air reconnaissance.  He believed,
though, that "Veneto", not a cruiser, had been stopped and continued his
pursuit despite darkness.  The British ships, radar equipped, unlike their
foe, came upon the Italian forces, aiding "Pola".  Unaware of the enemy's
presence and intent on assisting their compatriot, the Italian ships were
not closed up at battle stations.  At point blank range, British 15-inch
guns sank "Fiume" and "Zara" while two of the Italian destroyers were sunk
in the ensuing melee.  "Pola", immobilized, scuttled herself, being assisted
by a number of British torpedos after her crew was taken off by destroyers.
(British propaganda reports that "Pola"'s crew had panicked or were drunk
are totally baseless and their source and purpose should be noted.)

        Italian lack of radar and the British use of naval aircraft as well
as information via "Ultra" provided the British with a great advantage.
However, none of this mitigates the Italian mistakes, including poor night
tactics, reconnaissance and intelligence, as well as the absence of air
cover.  These factors combined to cause an Italian debacle.  Though the
defeat was painful, it did not materially affect the balance of forces
in the Mediterranean.  The Italian battleship force was still essentially
intact and four heavy cruisers remained in service while the British had
only one, "York", in the theater.  ("York" would be severely damaged in
May in Suda Bay, Crete, by a brilliant attack by Italian-piloted explosive
motor boats.  The ship would be unsalvageable.)

        "Littorio", now fully repaired, reentered service as the fleet
flagship, replacing "Veneto", which would be under repairs for the next
three months.  "Doria", "Duilio", and "Cesare" were also operational.

        It should also be noted that the British would soon suffer heavy
naval losses at the hands of Axis air units during the evacuations of
Greece and Crete, when the British lacked a friendly air umbrella.  This
was a situation frequently faced by the Italian Navy, and the British fared
just as badly.
--
Joe Barone
m1b@rayssd.ssd.ray.com
He blew out the brains of an apparent civilian on TV.  He was thus guilty
of the one truly unpardonable crime in modern society...  Bad Taste.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 18:38:32 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: BOOK FLYER

  Oslo, April 21.
  For Chris Scogings.  I produced my flyer with Ventura Publisher, and
it is not easy to convert it to a file which can be sent by EMAIL.  I
will, however, try tomorrow to send it by fax.
  For Andree Webb.  Thanks for your vote of confidence.  My mailing
address is: John C. Ausland, Sondreveien 4 Entry 2, 0378 Oslo, Norway.
Please include your mailing address.  I will let you know when your
book is on the way.
  Glad you liked my article.  After writing many years about foreign
policy and military matters, my computer articles are pure fun.
  Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 18:42:30 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: BOOK

  Oslo, April 21.  For Andree Webb.  Yes, it will be $35 in total for
surface mail.  Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 12:56:43 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <hb9388@USMA6.USMA.EDU>
Subject: Re: about my father

Debbie,

A very good book onthe Manhattan Project and the science advances that led to
it is:

The Making of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes.  (Simon and Schuster, 1986).

This will tell you a lot about what went on, even if it doesn't mention your
father by name.

Hope this helps.

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 13:31:48 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: Re: USAAF 17 APR 43


                This is a trivial question: what does the 63-15-17 above mean?
        My guess is 63 destroyed, 15 probable, 17 damaged.  If that is the case,
        how accurate are these figures?  They seem rather high to me.  This could
        shed some light on the claim that B-17s downed the most fighters, though.
        Losing 16 out of 115 B-17s is also a pretty nasty statistic.
        --
        Joe Barone
        m1b@rayssd.ssd.ray.com

You are correct!  The first number indicates the number of enemy
aircraft CLAIMED destroyed, the second number indicates the number
of enemy aircraft CLAIMED probably destroyed and the third number
indicates the number of enemy aircraft CLAIMED damaged.  There has
been discussions during the past week about the validity of these
claims and I agree completely that they are inflated which
presented one hell of a problem for intelligence officers.  When a
number of gunners were all shooting at the same target, you get a lot
of claims for the same aircraft.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 19:57:48 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: MEMBERS

  Oslo, April 21.  I note on the breakdown by country of members of
this list that there are three from Norway.  I would be curious as
to who the other two are and wonder if they would identify themselves.
Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 14:48:47 -0400
From:    Lydia Fish <FISHLM@SNYBUFVA.BITNET>
Subject: Re: MEMBERS

>  Oslo, April 21.  I note on the breakdown by country of members of
>this list that there are three from Norway.  I would be curious as
>to who the other two are and wonder if they would identify themselves.
>Regards, John Ausland

Dear John

Send the command

review wwii-l by country

to

listserv@ubvm

and you will receive a list of members of wwii-l sorted by country

Lydia Fish

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Apr 1993 00:42:48 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <gustin@EVS2.UIA.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: USAAF 17 APR 43

>
>                 This is a trivial question: what does the 63-15-17 above mean?
>         My guess is 63 destroyed, 15 probable, 17 damaged.  If that is the case,
>         how accurate are these figures?  They seem rather high to me.  This could
>         shed some light on the claim that B-17s downed the most fighters, though.
>         Losing 16 out of 115 B-17s is also a pretty nasty statistic.
>         --
>         Joe Barone
>         m1b@rayssd.ssd.ray.com
>
> You are correct!  The first number indicates the number of enemy
> aircraft CLAIMED destroyed, the second number indicates the number
> of enemy aircraft CLAIMED probably destroyed and the third number
> indicates the number of enemy aircraft CLAIMED damaged.  There has
> been discussions during the past week about the validity of these
> claims and I agree completely that they are inflated which
> presented one hell of a problem for intelligence officers.  When a
> number of gunners were all shooting at the same target, you get a lot
> of claims for the same aircraft.

>From a reference I had at hand: on 9 October '42 the 8th AF attacked Lille. The
bombers claimed 56-26-20. After the war it was found that Luftwaffe losses had
been 2.

The book includes handy statistics: Total claims for the 8th AF were 6098, for
the 15th AF 2110. (Compared to losses in combat 5548 and 2519, respectively). The
gunners of the 8th AF fired 76.887.000 rounds of .50 ammunition and 653.000
rounds of .30 ammunition, the 15th fired +30.000.000 rounds of .50... That is
roughly 13100 rounds/claim.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Apr 1993 19:11:29 -0400
From:    Lydia Fish <FISHLM@SNYBUFVA.BITNET>
Subject: National Archives FTP Site

Forwarded from VWAR-L

=================================================================
The Center for Electronic Records of the U.S. National Archives
and Records Administration has established an FTPable directory.
The FTP directory can be accessed by FTPing to FTP.CU.NIH.GOV
(128.231.64.7).  The directory in which this information is
stored is CNTR_ELEC_RECS (CD CNTR_ELEC_RECS).

In this directory are four files: a READ.ME file describing the
contents of the files in the directory; the partial and
preliminary public Title List (TITLE.LIST.APR1693), created by
the staff of the Center as a guide to some of the records in the
custody of the Center; a file containing a brief description of
the Center (CENTER, excerpted from National Archives General
Information Leaflet #37, "Information About Electronic Records in
the National Archives for Prospective Researchers") and a
description of the fee based reference services provided by the
Center (SERVICES).  Please note that the Title List file has a
line length of 132 characters and currently has 8,101 lines.

To gauge the usefulness of this service, Center staff would be
interested in reactions from those who experiment with using any
of these files.  We are interested in suggestions for
improvement, any criticisms, and general comments.

I hope this information is useful.  If you have any questions,
please contact me at the Center for Electronic Records (NSX),
ATTN: Reference Staff, National Archives, Washington, DC 20408.
The telephone number is (202) 501-5579.  I can also be reached
via Internet at tif@cu.nih.gov or BITNET at TIF@NIHCU.

THEODORE J. HULL
Archives Specialist, Archival Services Branch
Center for Electronic Records
(202) 501-5579






















Apr 1993

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 20 Apr 1993 to 21 Apr 1993
*************************************************

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Status: O

There are 20 messages totalling 712 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. VARIOUS (3)
  2. USAAF 21 APR 43
  3. Myitnge Bridge (2)
  4. USAAF 17 APR 43 (2)
  5. Krupp's Gustav a.k.a. Dora (2)
  6. GREETINGS
  7. IRELAND
  8. Kwajalein (2)
  9. 1938-'41 Chronology
 10. about my father
 11. GEN: saying MYITNGE
 12. Reader's Digest Book
 13. Ref: U.S. Army War College E-mail address?
 14. Rhode Island Listees

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Apr 1993 07:25:15 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: VARIOUS

  Oslo, April 22.
  For Beverly Brock.  I got your April 21 message and appreciate
your intention to order my book.  Mail away.
  For Lydia Fish.  Thanks for posting Ted Hull's notice about the
National Archives FTPable directory.  I will take a look at it.
>From my experience, the problem is not so much locating documents
about World War II but getting them once you have located them,
unless you go to the document center at Suitland, Maryland.  The
personnel there are very helpful, and in one day last October I
got all the records I really needed for my book.  However, it
took six months for some others I asked be sent me to arrive.
  Monthly telephone calls did not seem to hurry things along.
At that time, the center did not even have fax, although I was
told they intend to get it.
  Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Apr 1993 07:13:04 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: USAAF 21 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 22 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in
pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  P-40, Curtiss

CENTRAL PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Seventh Air Force)
  In the Ellice Islands, the airfield on Funafuti is bombed twice during
the night of 21/22 Apr by the Japanese. Two B-24's are destroyed and 5
others damaged.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Tunisia, P-40's fly fighter sweeps over the battle area along the
Gulf of Hammamet.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Tunisia, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) B-26's bomb
2 landing grounds near Protville. Northwest African Tactical Air Force
(NATAF) fighters and A-20's fly sweeps, reconnaissance, and patrols
and attack positions at Djebel el Ahmera (Longstop Ridge), Sidi Nsir,
Djebel el Ajred (Bald Hill), and other points as the British First Army's
5 Corps launches the start of the final phase of the assault on Tunis and
Bizerte, attacking on a front N and S of Medjez el Bab.
    In Italy, B-26's hit the harbor at Carloforte on San Pietro Island.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  HQ 42d Bombardment Group (Medium) arrives in Fiji from the U.S.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, A-20's and  B-25's pound the Lababia-Duali area on Nassau
Bay. Single B-17's bomb the Dobo and Nubia area, and strafe Ubili in the
Bismarck Archipelago.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59


----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Apr 1993 07:24:31 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: Myitnge Bridge

                       THE MYITNGE BRIDGE

(No, I do not know how to pronounce it either!)

The primary mission of Tenth Air Force bombers was the destruction of
Japanese installations, supply routes and lines of communications in
Burma.  The main transportation routes through central Burma were three
rivers, the Sittang, Irrawaddy and Chindwin, and a rail system running
north from Rangoon to Myitkyina via Mandalay; the railroad was the
principal line of communication for the Japanese in northern Burma.  The
rivers and railway provided a wide variety of targets for the B-17's,
B-24's and B-25's of the Tenth.  The railway net included a number of
bridges that were lucrative targets; if destroyed, these bridges would
greatly reduce the flow of supplies to the Japanese Army fighting in
northern and western Burma.  The problem with bridges is that it was
extremely difficult to hit such a small target with bombers and if damaged,
the Japanese immediately began repairing it.  Unfortunately, it would be
30-40 years before laser-guided bombs, i.e., "smart" bombs, were
available.

Mandalay was the key to the rail network through central Burma because all
goods for the north and western part of the country had to pass through it.
The Myitnge Bridge was located just south of Mandalay between Paleik and
Mandalay and all rail traffic to Mandalay went over it.  This four-span,
truss-type, steel structure became the second most bombed target in Burma
after Rangoon.  The following is a brief list of the missions against this
bridge to date (how would you have liked to see that B-17 attack on 24
Mar?):

1 Jan 43: The first mission against the bridge when 6 B-25's attacked and
claimed several hits.

10 Jan 43: B-24's and B-25's hit the target and report that a span was
knocked out and considerable damage was done to the whole  structure, in
other words, it was reported "destroyed".  Later reconnaissance revealed
it was damaged and unserviceable but repairable.  The Japanese begin
repairing it.

25 Jan 43: 5 B-25's attack destroying the southern approach and repair
work is temporarily suspended.

4 Feb 43:  6 B-25's bombed the bridge from 6,000 to  6,500 feet (1,829 to
1,981 m) while 7 B-24's bombed from 14,500 feet (4,420 m) but  only caused
slight damage to the south approach.

5 Feb 43: 6 B-25's attack but fail to knock it out.

6 Feb 43: B-24's hit the target but fail to damage it.

12 Feb 43: 7 B-24's attack the bridge using 2,000-pound (907 kg)
blockbusters for the first time in the China-Burma-India Theater;
they score 23 hits in the target area, but the bridge was not damaged.

14 Feb 43: B-25's unsuccessfully attack

15 Feb 43: B-24's attack but cause minor damage

23 Feb 43: Several B-24's attack battering the southern approach but not
damaging the spans

25 Feb 43: B-24's again attack without causing any damage

6 Mar 43: 6 B-24's attack unsuccessfully

8 Mar 43: 12 B-25's attack the bridge and AA positions with poor results.

11 Mar 43: 7 B-25's attack causing little damage

15 Mar 43: 8 B-25's attack causing little damage

16 Mar 43: 8 B-25's attack scoring 2 hits but the bridge is still intact

17 Mar 43: 8 B-25's attack damaging the northern approach

18 Mar 43: 8 B-25's attack slightly damaging the bridge

19 Mar 43: 8 B-25's attack and score at least 4 direct hits rendering it
unserviceable

20 Mar 43: 7 B-25's attack inflicting little additional damage

21 Mar 43: 6 B-24's unsuccessfully attack

24 Mar 43: 23 B-24's attack but do not hit the target;  2 B-17's attack
the bridge at 50 feet (15 m) dropping four 1,000 pound (453 kg) bombs without
effect

3 Apr 43: 17 B-25's attack scoring hits on both approaches

17 Apr 43: 7 B-25's attack scoring 4 damaging hits

21 Apr 43: 9 B-25's unsuccessfully attack

29 Apr 43: Well, stay tuned for this continuing drama which will continue
until June 1944

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Apr 1993 07:27:58 -0400
From:    jem3@CC.BELLCORE.COM
Subject: Re: USAAF 17 APR 43

        >From a reference I had at hand: on 9 October '42 the 8th AF attacked Lille. The
        bombers claimed 56-26-20. After the war it was found that Luftwaffe losses had
        been 2.

        The book includes handy statistics: Total claims for the 8th AF were 6098, for
        the 15th AF 2110. (Compared to losses in combat 5548 and 2519, respectively). Th
        e
        gunners of the 8th AF fired 76.887.000 rounds of .50 ammunition and 653.000
        rounds of .30 ammunition, the 15th fired +30.000.000 rounds of .50... That is
        roughly 13100 rounds/claim.

        Emmanuel Gustin


Emmanuel,
What is the name and ISBN number of the book?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  jem3@cc.bellcore.com                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Apr 1993 05:41:11 -0600
From:    The Invigilator <The_Invigilator@MAD.UUCP>
Subject: Krupp's Gustav a.k.a. Dora

Any good sources for information on this huge piece of artillery? This gun
reported inaccuracy and uselessness in 'The Arms of Krupp' by William
Manchester. Wheras other publications mention it as a decisive weapon in
the siege of Sevastopol. Any book on Krupp's weaponry devolopment different
from the previous would be greatly appreciated.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

Paul Ayotte.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Apr 1993 09:29:57 CDT
From:    Mike Seningen <seningen@ROSS.COM>
Subject: Re: VARIOUS

The book I ras referring to the other day is

_The Battle of Hurtgen Forest : the untold story of a disastrous campaign_
by Charles Whiting -- I have it in paperback by Pocket Books under Milatary History.  Printed May 1990.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Apr 1993 17:31:36 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <d_ausland_j@KARI.UIO.NO>
Subject: GREETINGS

  Oslo, April 21.
  For Frode Weierud.  Thanks for your interesting message.  Glad
you have found my articles in the IHT and Aftenposten of interest.
As you will have noticed in the IHT, I have switched from writing
about current events the past few years to writing about the past
and about computing.
  I did not mean to suggest that I know how to locate documents
in the National Archieves