Subject: WWII-L Digest - 22 Apr 1993 to 23 Apr 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 00:01:17 -0400

There are 12 messages totalling 521 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Myitnge Bridge
  2. VARIOUS
  3. USAAF 23 APR 43
  4. Bridges (2)
  5. INFO: Italian Navy: First Battle of Sirte
  6. LETTER TO EDITOR
  7. TRANSFERING MONEY
  8. WEAP: B-25 cannon
  9. Terms with Hitler
 10. BIBLIOGRAPHY REQUEST (2)

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Date:    Thu, 22 Apr 1993 23:49:25 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Myitnge Bridge

> > 29 Apr 43: Well, stay tuned for this continuing drama which will continue
> > until June 1944
>
> Well, that is 1.5 year for a bridge. Does anyone know of more long-living
> bridges?
>
> (Not exactly WWII, but the Than Hoa bridge in Vietnam was under air attack 873
> times from 3 April 1965 to 13 May 1972, when it was finally destroyed -- Maybe
> setting a record.)

The Lafayette Bridge in St. Paul, MN survived many years until our fund
raising airshow last year, when it was destroyed by the highway department
in a single airborne legislative pen attack.

Not quite the same thing, but they could have just lobbed shells onto the
ramp area from across the highway with about the same results.  :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force
  You know you've made a gear-up landing when it takes full power to taxi.

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Date:    Fri, 23 Apr 1993 07:47:21 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: VARIOUS

  Oslo, April 23.
  For Larry Jewell, what is this about scanning pictures and "byrd."
I must be coming in late on a conversation.

  For Rod Holmes, I have two Carlisle addresses and am not sure just
which does what, but here they are:
US Army history:gollum::"[email-masked]"
US Army history:gollum::"[email-masked]"

  Here is the heading of a message I received, which may help you:
To: [email-masked]
From: Information service <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ABBREV.asc
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 15:20:20 EST

Thank you for your information request

An index of the available information can be obtained by mailing to
[email-masked] with a Subject: line containing
only the word "index"
i.e.
Subject: index

  For Chris Scogings, my wife sent you my flyer by fax yesterday from
her pharmacy.  (My fax modem does not handle graphics.)  I hope you got it.
  Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Apr 1993 07:15:08 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 23 APR 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 23 APRIL 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/wwii/usaaf

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS
  U.S.: The Combined Chiefs of Staff (CCS) issues a directive making
British Lieutenant General Frederick E. Morgan Chief of Staff to Supreme
Allied Commander (Designate). This title, COSSAC, describes both the
office and the man who heads it. COSSAC is the seed of Supreme
Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force (SHAEF). It is charged with
continuance of planning for the eventual invasion of Western Europe.

CENTRAL PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Seventh Air Force)
  In the Gilberts, 12 B-24's from Funafuti attack Tarawa Atoll, bombing
fuel storage and barracks areas. After this mission, the 371st and 372d
Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy), 307th Bombardment Group (Heavy) cease
operating from Funafuti and return to their base at Wheeler Field and
Kahuku, Territory of Hawaii respectively.
  The 78th Fighter Squadron, 15th Fighter Group with P-40's transfers from
Midway Island to Barking Sands, Territory of Hawaii.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force)
    In Burma, 9 B-25's bomb the Mandalay warehouse area. Five P-40's
damage the approaches to the bridge at Shaduzup.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force)
    In China, P-40's strafe a 15-truck convoy SW of Lungling.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Tunisia, B-25's attack a landing ground, troops, and artillery N of
Enfidaville. P-40's fly escort, sweeps, and fighter-bomber missions in the
battle area.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Tunisia, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) B-25's and
B-26's bomb vehicles and the railroad at Mateur, the Mateur-Bedja road and
Arbatax harbor in Italy. Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF)
fighters, A-20's, and medium bombers carry out a large number of missions
against positions in NE Tunisia and particularly along the battleline area
from near Pont-du-Fahs N to the Mediterranean as the US II Corps begins a
drive on Bizerte in the Jefna-Sidi Meftah area.
    In the Mediterranean, B-17's attack vessels N of Sicily.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  The 390th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 42d Bombardment Group (Medium)
with B-25's transfers from New Caledonia to Fiji.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, single B-24's bomb the airfield and town area at
Finschhafen and score a direct hit on a cargo vessel SE of Kavieng in the
Bismarck Archipelago.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  [email-masked]                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Apr 1993 15:29:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bridges

Bridges.
It seems to be too difficult for an Air Force to destroy a bridge.
-The Dutch AF could't destroy the Moerdijkbridge.
 The attack on 13-5-1940 result in 1 near miss and 1 on the target,
 but the bomb did not explode.
 On his way home this last bomber was shot down.
-The Allied AF could't destroy the Venlobridge in 1944.
 After the battle of Arnhem the Germans used these bridges( a
 railway and a motorcar bridge) for their troops west of river Maas.
 For a few months the USAAF and the RAF attacked this bridge,but they
 stay useble, sometimes the way up and from the bridge were hit, it
 took only a few hours and a little bit sand to repair it.
 Sometimes the bombs missed by only a km and destroyed complete
 streets with houses.
 At last these bridges were destroyed, after the last German escaped,
 they blew up the bridges.
-The allied AF missed the railway bridge near Utrecht a lot of times.
 Because of the railwaystrike since Sept. 44 there were no trains in
 the Netherlands, but the Germans kept the railway Germany-Utrecht-
 The Hague open for their V-2 transport.
 We had to be in shelter, but when everything was save after an hour
 the bridge was still there. Sometimes the area was closed because
 the danger of the unexploded bombs.
 Even now after 49 years if they are building in that area they had to
 stop because they find an unexploded bomb. On a night
 the BBC anounced, the bridge was destroyed, so my oncle made a
 picture of the bridge, but he was caught by the Germans and sent
 to Germany by train. When the train slowed down he jumped out and
 walked home.
-The story of the river Kwai, a few commando's had more change to
 destroy the bridge than the AF.
-The Germans could't hit the bridge of Remagen.
The AF reports were very optimistic with a lot of destroyed bridges,
but the results were very poor.
(You see the same for the number of ac shot down)
In my opinion the bombs were too small and only something like the
earthquake bomb used by 617sqd RAF could destroy a bridge.

PS,I read in Iraq, 6 weeks 1000 strikes a day,95%hits in the rose.
Does this mean that there were more then 40.000 things targetable
and hit and
still the Scuds flew to Israel and the Sukhoi's to Iran???
or is my explanation of "hit" wrong.
Peter de Lange
Leiden
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Apr 1993 10:41:21 -0400
From:    "M. Joseph Barone" <[email-masked]>
Subject: INFO: Italian Navy: First Battle of Sirte

        The collapse of Greece, following the German invasion, and the
occupation of Crete in May 1941, improved the Axis strategic situation
in the region.  British losses were high during these operations, while
the Italian fleet units were not involved, due to a lack of fuel and
a reticence for combat after Matapan.  Italian light forces took part
in the Crete operation which included the exploits of the destroyer
escorts "Lupo" and "Sagitarrio".

        The Axis now controlled the Eastern Mediterranean basin and the
passage of their convoys to North Africa was now more secure.  The Regia
Marina continued to escort all convoys to Africa while the British
continued their attempts to interdict this traffic by naval and air
attacks, frequently at night, relying on radar-equipped light cruisers
and destroyers, submarines and aircraft.  At the same time, Axis pressure
on Malta continued.

        In June 1941, the complexion of the war changed with the German
attack on the Soviet Union.  Many of the German aircraft used to attack
Malta were withdrawn for use against the Russians.  This reduced the pressure
on the island, so that more supplies got through.  The consequences were
immediate.  Malta again began offensive operations and Axis convoy losses
grew, to the point that in November 1941, losses were 63%!  This had the
effect of weakening Axis ground forces in North Africa, whose position
was already precarious due to reduced supplies.  The British in Africa
launched an offensive that took them past Benghazi (the start of the
"Benghazi handicaps").  The situation forced the Italian Navy to carry
troop reinforcements to Africa on destroyers and ruses were employed to
get supplies through.  The fuel situation was so severe that gasoline in
jerry cans was transported by cruisers!  This made the ships exceedingly
vulnerable and two were lost on such missions.

        The gravity of the situation was recognized and additional
German air units were assigned to the theater.  The Italian Navy began
to use their heavy units which expended valuable stocks of fuel, which
were already in short supply. This made the Italians even more dependent
on the irregular German deliveries of Rumanian oil.  These Italian
measures, though, especially the use of heavy units to screen convoys,
proved successful and supplies again were built up in Africa.

        In mid-December 1941, the situation in Africa had deteriorated.
Following a British ground breakthrough, it was considered urgent that
a convoy get through to resupply the Axis forces.  A convoy of four large
cargo ships was organized, with an escort of eight destroyers.  A close
screening force of "Duilio", three cruisers and four destroyers was
provided, with distant support based on "Littorio", "Doria", "Cesare",
two heavy cruisers and ten destroyers.  That such a large segment of the
fleet was involved emphasized the seriousness of the situation.

        Once again, the Italians were working with faulty reconnaissance.
They believed that a British force was steaming to intercept their convoy
when, in fact, the British were escorting their own convoy to Malta.  The
opposing forces met on December 17, 1941.  The British were ordered to
avoid combat until the tanker they were escorting was safe, at which time
a night attack was to be made against the Italians, who had been located.
The Italian distant-covering force was sent to intercept the British.
However, at about 5:00PM, Admiral Iachino decided to retire for two reasons.
The first was that the Italian convoy had been discovered and needed his
support.  The second reason was that he was loath to engage in a night
action against a radar-equipmented opponent when he lacked radar.  After
making this decision, lookouts noted the heavy anti-aircraft fire on the
horizon indicating that the British were under aerial attack.  Iachino
once again turned toward the British and as dusk fell, at 5:53PM, opened
fire, at a range of 32,000 meters, taking the British completely by
surprise.  The British immediately laid down smoke and the opposing
destroyers engaged in a gunnery duel.  By 6:04PM, it was dark and action
was broken off.  Throughout the night, to prevent an attack, Iachino
kept his forces between the British and the Italian convoy, which reached
its destination safely.

        Though there were no losses on either side, the results were
favorable to the Italians.  Significantly, the British had lacked carrier
support in this operation, further evidence of how indispensable these
ships were.  Despite their success, the Italian Navy was poorly served
by land-based air reconnaissance, as they had come upon the British more
by chance than by direction.  Though these ships had been located by and
were under Axis air attack, this information had not been passed on to
Iachino.  Had they located and engaged the British earlier, the Italian
ships might well have inflicted serious damage against the smaller British
ships.

        This action was the First Battle of Sirte.

        The next night, the most singular exploits of the war occurred.
An Italian submarine ferried three two-man torpedos to Alexandria.  They
penetrated the harbor and attached their warheads to the battleships,
"Valiant" (a veteran of Matapan) and "Queen Elizabeth" and a tanker.
The tanker sank when its warhead detonated and the two battleships were
put out of action for a considerable amount of time.  All six of the
Italian raiders were captured.

        These losses were added to the loss of "Barham" (another veteran
of Matapan) to the German U-boat in November and the losses of the "Prince
of Wales" and "Repulse" to the Japanese earlier in December.  These losses
stretched British resources very thin and swung the naval balance in the
Mediterranean in the Italians' favor.

        These factors contributed to Axis convoy traffic reaching Africa
with reduced losses and allowed an increased buildup of supplies.  Land
forces under Rommel stopped the British advance and in January 1942 launched
a counteroffensive, retaking Benghazi.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
Big Joe: What are you doing?
Oddball: Drinking some wine, eating some chesse, catching some rays.
Big Joe: Why aren't you up there fixing the tank?
Oddball: Hey, man, I just ride them, I don't know what makes them work.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Apr 1993 17:05:12 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: LETTER TO EDITOR

  As a follow up to my April 2 article, the IHT ran the following
letter to editor on April 23, with minor editorial changes.
BEGIN TEXT
     As a result of my Meanwhile article in the April 2 IHT, a number of
people have asked me if my use of my computer and a modem to
communicate is not costing me a fortune.  On the contrary, it is cheaper
than either fax or postage stamps.
     Internet, the academic and research network system, is the cheapest,
but it is also the hardest to get access to and the most complicated.  I will,
therefore, limit myself to Compuserve.
     My Compuserve bill never runs over $50 a month, and I use it a
great deal.  The basic service costs $8.95 a month.  This provides a
number of services, including about sixty messages a month.  If you use
one of the forums (conferences), you pay an additional thirteen cents a
minute.  In addition, there are communications costs, which vary from
place to place.  Here in Oslo, I pay eighteen cents a minute.
     The trick is not to pay for thinking.  You read and write your
messages before you connect to the Compuserve computer in Ohio.  You
then use special communications software to send and receive messages.
I am seldom connected for more than one or two minutes.
      For people abroad, I recommend a program called TAPCIS, at
telephone (301) 387-4500, fax (301) 387-7322.  For $90, you will get
a membership in Compuserve, a communications program, and a manual that
will take you step by step through joining and learning the ropes.
     Before buying, you should ask the people at TAPCIS what
communications facilities are available to you and what they cost!
     If one of the arrangements Compuserve has made around the world
is available to you, Compuserve will charge both their fees and
communications charges to major credit cards.
     What is required is not so much money as patience.  Once you have
the hang of it, however, it opens to you a whole new world.
END TEXT JOHN C. AUSLAND

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Apr 1993 17:20:30 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRANSFERING MONEY

  FOR CHRIS SCOGINGS
  Marketing this book in Europe has made me a firm supporter of a
common European currency.  It costs money to buy a bank check, and
it costs to cash it.
  I have precipitated a discussion on Compuserve on the European
conference on how best to solve this.  The best idea I have seen
is to use American Express travelers checks, which cost only one
percent to buy and nothing to cash.
  I do not know whether this would be of any help to you or not
given the SA regulations, but you could, if you want the book
sent airmail, just get two $20 American Express checks, sign them
both top and bottom, and endorse them to me in the middle where
it says, "Pay this check to the order of."
  Regards, John Ausland

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Apr 1993 12:59:44 EST
From:    Mike Long <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: B-25 cannon

>Actually, the 7mm cannon was very effective against shipping, but it was
>a very tricky technique that really required some practice.  The technique
>was used pretty heavily in the Mediterranean where it did a lot of damage
>to shipping.  B-25 sweeps over the ocean were pretty common until mid-1944
>when shipping was basically immaterial to the Axis war effort.

On the WINGS episode about the B25 they mention a trick that the pilots
used to aim the cannon. They'd start off with the .50's and adjust the aim
until roughly centered on the target and then switch to the cannon.

>By the way, the legend of the B-25 stopping in mid-air was just that.
>It does not pause at all, though the effect of the blast through the
>fuselage and the jarring motion may make it feel that way.

This legend was also disspelled on the show. The "home video" they showed
that was taken through the cockpit window facing forward showed the cannon
being fired and the resulting shudder from the recoil. The plane was really
bounced around but it did not appear to have any affect on the forward motion
of the aircraft.

Overall it was a very interesting episode.

Mike
MLONG@UCONNVM

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Apr 1993 12:47:08 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Terms with Hitler

Stephen Fox writes:
|->
|-> In 1991 I visited the site outside of Compiegne.  Fascinating, but not
|-> easy to find.  The official answer provided there is that the Germans
|-> destroyed the original car shortly after the signing in June 1940.

        Mary and I have been to Compiegne several times and enjoyed
each visit. The first time we were stranded there when our brand-new
leased Simca died on us. Besides the 20th century interests. There is
the Palais National (in whose grounds the railway car is located),
which is one of the royal residences. The local cathedral has several
Joan of Arc connections. I believe she received her armor and was
blessed there, or some such. Also nearby is Pierrefonds, a splendid
example of 19th century romanticism's desire to reconstruct the middle ages.
In this case, you will find a restored castle.

|-> I also found the slab in the center of the clearing to be a fadcinating
|-> reminder of the hatred the French had toward Germany, 1914-18.  The
|-> inscription (in French, of course) refers to the rising of the people
|-> over the criminal German machine - well, I can't do it justice, but
|-> had I been a German in 1940 I might have found some saitsfaction
|-> in the symbolism of the occasion chosen by Hitler.

        A less vitriolic, but no less indicative, plaque can be found
on one of the city's main bridges. It calmly lists the 5 or 6 times
that a bridge on the site has been destroyed by advancing Germans,
only to be rebuilt each time by the French. One gets the distinct
impression that Les Bosches were somewhat careless with other people's
bridges.
                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Apr 1993 15:24:57 MDT
From:    Steve Alvin <[email-masked]>
Subject: BIBLIOGRAPHY REQUEST

In the fall I will, for the first time, be teaching a Junior-Senior
level course on the history of World War II.  While I consider myself
well read on the subject, the massive numbers of new books has
swamped me (especially since I've been finishing my dissertation
which deals with 16th century Dutch naval history!).  Could members of
the list who have taught a similar course recommend appropriate text
books.  In particular, I am looking for a one volume *paperback* study
of both the European and Asian Theaters that would be accessible to
students who have little in depth knowledge of the war.

Any help you might give will be appreciated.  You may send your
answers to me personally at [email-masked].

Thanks in advance.

Steve Alvin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Apr 1993 16:22:00 PST
From:    Stephen Fox <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: BIBLIOGRAPHY REQUEST

I have used: Michael J. Lyons, World War II: A Short History (pricey)
        Robert James Maddox, The United States in World War II (cheaper)
        John Keegan, The Second World War (literate, comprehensive,
        intelligent, and cheaper than you might expect - my current
        choice.

I also supplement this reading with one novel and one non-fiction,
personal experience book.  I can give you my current choices if you
are interested.

        Steve

ex
********************************************
*       Steve Fox                          *
*       History Department                 *
*       Humboldt State University          *
*       Arcata, CA  95521                  *
*       (707) 826-4788                     *
*       [email-masked]              *
********************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 23 Apr 1993 20:15:30 +0100
From:    Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bridges

> In my opinion the bombs were too small and only something like the
> earthquake bomb used by 617sqd RAF could destroy a bridge.

That is just how they took out the Bielefeld viaduct.  It was the first use of
the 22,000 lb Grand Slam earthquake bomb

Bob Smart ([email-masked])

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 22 Apr 1993 to 23 Apr 1993
*************************************************