Subject: WWII-L Digest - 2 Apr 1993 to 3 Apr 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1993 00:50:40 -0500

There are 8 messages totalling 633 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Mosquitoes (2)
  2. bonjour (4)
  3. German Democracy
  4. Yalta Conference (20k)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 07:46:51 +0000
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Mosquitoes

> In the heartwrenching stories category:
> Last year I met an ex-RAF pilot who flew Mosquitoes from the late 40's
> until he was moved to jets in the mid 50's.  He told me how one day he
> was ordered to fly his Mosquito down to Singapore, where he watched as
> they chopped it up with hatchets. Argh!!

My father used to tell about the destruction of aircraft after WW2. His father
was a proffesional photographer in Arkansas. Dad was taken along on assignments
sometimes. This day they were at an airbase near Ft Smith ( the city in NW Ark)
aircraft were flown in taxied to the end of the parking area, allowed to idle
until they drained the tank ( not very long) then a frontend loader picked up
the tail and stood it on the nose. every couple planes a bull dozer would push
the row closer together. they had filled up one taxi way already.  He thought
they were eventually sold as scrap metal. This was being done to bombers and
fighters. I don't know what models. Dad died a few years ago and He wasn't a
real plane nut so I'm not sure I woulsd have trusted his identifications after
20+ years anyway.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 23:25:44 +1000
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Mosquitoes

Mosquitoes were built here in Australia during WW2, in fact our local aero
club, the Royal Newcastle Aero Club built the wingtips in an annex to their
workshops. The first prototype aussie Mosquito actually fell apart in the air
when the two engines seperated from the airframe. Consequently the first batch
of suspect wings etc were discarded and used for test purposes. There were
something like 100 sets, and apparently the data derived from the distructive
testing of them was extremely useful to aeronautics in general.

Apparently there is one aussie mosquito undergoing restoration now. Last year
at a local air show the Newcastle Historical Aircraft Society had the
complete tail section, including tailwheel of another on display as well. I
suspect that several hundred were made so there must be additional bits and
pieces around as well.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 16:46:40 WETDST
From:    Arnaud Bouis <[email-masked]>
Subject: bonjour

hello everyone,
just back on the list till monday (last time, as my account shall
be deleted soon *sigh*).
How's the list going ?
Any great debate going on ?

Arnaud Bouis

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 10:07:59 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: bonjour

> hello everyone,

 Welcome back!

> just back on the list till monday (last time, as my account shall
> be deleted soon *sigh*).

 You could explore public access, such as Compuserve, for access to the
list.  We also have a "digest" option now, so you can get the mail in
a single daily block.  Very handy for commericial access system where
you are charged by the message.

> How's the list going ?
> Any great debate going on ?

 Somehow the topic has turned to sometype of flying insect, but I'm not
following the discussion too closely, since the weapon calibre is so small
:-).

> Arnaud Bouis

Larry (Battleships forever!) J

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 17:44:58 WETDST
From:    Arnaud Bouis <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: bonjour

> > hello everyone,

>  You could explore public access, such as Compuserve, for access to the
> list.  We also have a "digest" option now, so you can get the mail in
> a single daily block.  Very handy for commericial access system where
> you are charged by the message.

I don't know compuserve. How to acceed it from France ? I have no idea.

>
>  Somehow the topic has turned to sometype of flying insect, but I'm not
> following the discussion too closely, since the weapon calibre is so small
> :-).

flying insects were the war "winner" indeed. Ask the japs and Aussies in
Papua :-)

INSECT
Maneuvrability : class 1
armament : one 1,5 mm sting
           plus provision for a couple of lethal diseases
range : 1 km, lo-lo-lo missions
entered service : 1939
production : over 1,000,000,000

> Larry (Battleships forever!) J

Arnaud (insecticide everywhere !)

...who, amazed, recently saw a Serb truck towing a ... 88mm German Pak gun !

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 13:54:07 +0000
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: bonjour

> > Larry (Battleships forever!) J
>
> Arnaud (insecticide everywhere !)
>
>
> ...who, amazed, recently saw a Serb truck towing a ... 88mm German Pak gun !

And you think you can just throw this in at the end of the message???
Details, we want the whole story

Tim is already packing his bag and checkbook, he needs it for those
re-eanctments!

Bob Smart ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 13:52:00 EST
From:    GERHARD REMPEL <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German Democracy

<I'll upload this to Mike McCarthy's ftp site this weekend and, if there's
enough interest, I'll post it here.>

Larry J, please post. Thanks.

Gerhard Rempel
GRempel@WNEC/Western New England College, Springfield, Ma 01119. USA

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 3 Apr 1993 20:19:15 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Yalta Conference (20k)

YALTA (CRIMEA) CONFERENCE
February, 1945

Washington, March 24 - The text of the agreements reached at the
Crimea (Yalta) Conference between President Roosevelt, Prime
Minister Churchill and Generalissimo Stalin, as released by the
State Department today, follows:

PROTOCOL OF PROCEEDINGS OF CRIMEA CONFERENCE

The Crimea Conference of the heads of the Governments of the
United States of America, the United Kingdom, and the Union of
Soviet Socialist Republics, which took place from Feb. 4 to 11,
came to the following conclusions:

I. WORLD ORGANIZATION

It was decided:

1. That a United Nations conference on the proposed world
organization should be summoned for Wednesday, 25 April, 1945,
and should be held in the United States of America.

2. The nations to be invited to this conference should be:

(a) the United Nations as they existed on 8 Feb., 1945; and

(b) Such of the Associated Nations as have declared war on the
common enemy by 1 March, 1945.  (For this purpose, by the term
"Associated Nations" was meant the eight Associated Nations and
Turkey.)  When the conference on world organization is held, the
delegates of the United Kingdom and United State of America will
support a proposal to admit to original membership two Soviet
Socialist Republics, i.e., the Ukraine and White Russia.

3. That the United States Government, on behalf of the three
powers, should consult the Government of China and the French
Provisional Government in regard to decisions taken at the
present conference concerning the proposed world organization.

4. That the text of the invitation to be issued to all the
nations which would take part in the United Nations conference
should be as follows:

"The Government of the United States of America, on behalf of
itself and of the Governments of the United Kingdom, the Union
of Soviet Socialistic Republics and the Republic of China and of
the Provisional Government of the French Republic invite the
Government of -------- to send representatives to a conference
to be held on 25 April, 1945, or soon thereafter , at San
Francisco, in the United States of America, to prepare a charter
for a general international organization for the maintenance of
international peace and security.

"The above-named Governments suggest that the conference
consider as affording a basis for such a Charter the proposals
for the establishment of a general international organization
which were made public last October as a result of the Dumbarton
Oaks conference and which have now been supplemented by the
following provisions for Section C of Chapter VI:

C. Voting

"1. Each member of the Security Council should have one vote.

"2. Decisions of the Security Council on procedural matters
should be made by an affirmative vote of seven members.

"3. Decisions of the Security Council on all matters should be
made by an affirmative vote of seven members, including the
concurring votes of the permanent members; provided that, in
decisions under Chapter VIII, Section A and under the second
sentence of Paragraph 1 of Chapter VIII, Section C, a party to a
dispute should abstain from voting.'

"Further information as to arrangements will be transmitted
subsequently.

"In the event that the Government of -------- desires in advance
of the conference to present views or comments concerning the
proposals, the Government of the United States of America will
be pleased to transmit such views and comments to the other
participating Governments."

Territorial trusteeship:

It was agreed that the five nations which will have permanent
seats on the Security Council should consult each other prior to
the United Nations conference on the question of territorial
trusteeship.

The acceptance of this recommendation is subject to its being
made clear that territorial trusteeship will only apply to (a)
existing mandates of the League of Nations; (b) territories
detached from the enemy as a result of the present war; (c) any
other territory which might voluntarily be placed under
trusteeship; and (d) no discussion of actual territories is
contemplated at the forthcoming United Nations conference or in
the preliminary consultations, and it will be a matter for
subsequent agreement which territories within the above
categories will be place under trusteeship.

[Begin first section published Feb., 13, 1945.]

II. DECLARATION OF LIBERATED EUROPE

The following declaration has been approved:

The Premier of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the
Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and the President of the
United States of America have consulted with each other in the
common interests of the people of their countries and those of
liberated Europe.  They jointly declare their mutual agreement
to concert during the temporary period of instability in
liberated Europe the policies of their three Governments in
assisting the peoples liberated from the domination of Nazi
Germany and the peoples of the former Axis satellite states of
Europe to solve by democratic means their pressing political and
economic problems.

The establishment of order in Europe and the rebuilding of
national economic life must be achieved by processes which will
enable the liberated peoples to destroy the last vestiges of
nazism and fascism and to create democratic institutions of
their own choice.  This is a principle of the Atlantic Charter -
the right of all people to choose the form of government under
which they will live - the restoration of sovereign rights and
self-government to those peoples who have been forcibly deprived
to them by the aggressor nations.

To foster the conditions in which the liberated people may
exercise these rights, the three governments will jointly assist
the people in any European liberated state or former Axis state
in Europe where, in their judgment conditions require, (a) to
establish conditions of internal peace; (b) to carry out
emergency relief measures for the relief of distressed peoples;
(c) to form interim governmental authorities broadly
representative of all democratic elements in the population and
pledged to the earliest possible establishment through free
elections of Governments responsive to the will of the people;
and (d) to facilitate where necessary the holding of such
elections.

The three Governments will consult the other United Nations and
provisional authorities or other Governments in Europe when
matters of direct interest to them are under consideration.

When, in the opinion of the three Governments, conditions in any
European liberated state or former Axis satellite in Europe make
such action necessary, they will immediately consult together on
the measure necessary to discharge the joint responsibilities
set forth in this declaration.

By this declaration we reaffirm our faith in the principles of
the Atlantic Charter, our pledge in the Declaration by the
United Nations and our determination to build in cooperation
with other peace-loving nations world order, under law,
dedicated to peace, security, freedom and general well-being of
all mankind.

In issuing this declaration, the three powers express the hope
that the Provisional Government of the French Republic may be
associated with them in the procedure suggested.

[End first section published Feb., 13, 1945.]

III. DISMEMBERMENT OF GERMANY

It was agreed that Article 12 (a) of the Surrender terms for
Germany should be amended to read as follows:

"The United Kingdom, the United States of America and the Union
of Soviet Socialist Republics shall possess supreme authority
with respect to Germany.  In the exercise of such authority they
will take such steps, including the complete dismemberment of
Germany as they deem requisite for future peace and security."

The study of the procedure of the dismemberment of Germany was
referred to a committee consisting of Mr. Anthony Eden, Mr. John
Winant, and Mr. Fedor T. Gusev.  This body would consider the
desirability of associating with it a French representative.

IV. ZONE OF OCCUPATION FOR THE FRENCH AND CONTROL COUNCIL FOR
GERMANY.

It was agreed that a zone in Germany, to be occupied by the
French forces, should be allocated France.  This zone would be
formed out of the British and American zones and its extent
would be settled by the British and Americans in consultation
with the French Provisional Government.

It was also agreed that the French Provisional Government should
be invited to become a member of the Allied Control Council for
Germany.

V. REPARATION

The following protocol has been approved:

Protocol

On the Talks Between the Heads of Three Governments at the
Crimean Conference on the Question of the German Reparations in
Kind

1. Germany must pay in kind for the losses caused by her to the
Allied nations in the course of the war. Reparations are to be
received in the first instance by those countries which have
borne the main burden of the war, have suffered the heaviest
losses and have organized victory over the enemy.

2. Reparation in kind is to be exacted from Germany in three
following forms:

(a) Removals within two years from the surrender of Germany or
the cessation of organized resistance from the national wealth
of Germany located on the territory of Germany herself as well
as outside her territory (equipment, machine tools, ships,
rolling stock, German investments abroad, shares of industrial,
transport and other enterprises in Germany, etc.), these
removals to be carried out chiefly for the purpose of destroying
the war potential of Germany.

(b) Annual deliveries of goods from current production for a
period to be fixed.

(c) Use of German labor.

3. For the working out on the above principles of a detailed
plan for exaction of reparation from Germany an Allied
reparation commission will be set up in Moscow.  It will consist
of three representatives - one from the Union of Soviet
Socialist Republics, one from the United Kingdom and one from
the United States of America.

4. With regard to the fixing of the total sum of the reparation
as well as the distribution of it among the countries which
suffered from the German aggression, the Soviet and American
delegations agreed as follows:

"The Moscow reparation commission should take in its initial
studies as a basis for discussion the suggestion of the Soviet
Government that the total sum of the reparation in accordance
with the points (a) and (b) of the Paragraph 2 should be 22
billion dollars and that 50 per cent should go to the Union of
Soviet Socialist Republics."

The British delegation was of the opinion that, pending
consideration of the reparation question by the Moscow
reparation commission, no figures of reparation should be
mentioned.

The above Soviet-American proposal has been passed to the Moscow
reparation commission as one of the proposals to be considered
by the commission.

VI. MAJOR WAR CRIMINALS

The conference agreed that the question of the major war
criminals should be the subject of inquiry by the three Foreign
Secretaries for report in due course after the close of the
conference.

[Begin second section published Feb. 13, 1945.]

VII. POLAND

The following declaration on Poland was agreed by the
conference:

"A new situation has been created in Poland as a result of her
complete liberation by the Red Army.  This calls for the
establishment of a Polish Provisional Government which can be
more broadly based than was possible before the recent
liberation of the western part of Poland.  The Provisional
Government which is now functioning in Poland should therefore
be reorganized on a broader democratic basis with the inclusion
of democratic leaders from Poland itself and from Poles abroad.
This new Government should then be called the Polish Provisional
Government of National Unity.

"M. Molotov, Mr. Harriman and Sir A. Clark Kerr are authorized
as a commission to consult in the first instance in Moscow with
members of the present Provisional Government and with other
Polish democratic leaders from within Poland and from abroad,
with a view to the reorganization of the present Government
along the above lines.  This Polish Provisional Government of
National Unity shall be pledged to the holding of free and
unfettered elections as soon as possible on the basis of
universal suffrage and secret ballot.  In these elections all
democratic and anti-Nazi parties shall have the right to take
part and to put forward candidates.

"When a Polish Provisional of Government National Unity has been
properly formed in conformity with the above, the Government of
the U.S.S.R., which now maintains diplomatic relations with the
present Provisional Government of Poland, and the Government of
the United Kingdom and the Government of the United States of
America will establish diplomatic relations with the new Polish
Provisional Government National Unity, and will exchange
Ambassadors by whose reports the respective Governments will be
kept informed about the situation in Poland.

"The three heads of Government consider that the eastern
frontier of Poland should follow the Curzon Line with
digressions from it in some regions of five to eight kilometers
in favor of Poland.  They recognize that Poland must receive
substantial accessions in territory in the north and west.  They
feel that the opinion of the new Polish Provisional Government
of National Unity should be sought in due course of the extent
of these accessions and that the final delimitation of the
western frontier of Poland should thereafter await the peace
conference."

VIII. YOGOSLAVIA

It was agreed to recommend to Marshal Tito and to Dr. Ivan
Subasitch:

(a) That the Tito-Subasitch agreement should immediately be put
into effect and a new government formed on the basis of the
agreement.

(b) That as soon as the new Government has been formed it should
declare:

(I) That the Anti-Fascist Assembly of the National Liberation
(AVNOJ) will be extended to include members of the last Yugoslav
Skupstina who have not compromised themselves by collaboration
with the enemy, thus forming a body to be known as a temporary
Parliament and

(II) That legislative acts passed by the Anti-Fascist Assembly
of the National Liberation (AVNOJ)  will be subject to
subsequent ratification by a Constituent Assembly; and that this
statement should be published in the communiqui of the
conference.

[End second section published Feb. 13, 1945.]

IX. ITALO-YOGOSLAV FRONTIER - ITALO-ASUTRIAN FRONTIER

Notes on these subjects were put in by the British delegation
and the American and Soviet delegations agreed to consider them
and give their views later.

X. YUGOSLAV-BULGARIAN RELATIONS

There was an exchange of views between the Foreign Secretaries
on the question of the desirability of a Yugoslav-Bulgarian pact
of alliance.  The question at issue was whether a state still
under an armistice regime could be allowed to enter into a
treaty with another state.  Mr. Eden suggested that the
Bulgarian and Yugoslav Governments should be informed that this
could not be approved.  Mr. Stettinius suggested that the
British and American Ambassadors should discuss the matter
further with Mr. Molotov in Moscow.  Mr. Molotov agreed with the
proposal of Mr. Stettinius.

XI. SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE

The British delegation put in notes for the consideration of
their colleagues on the following subjects:

(a) The Control Commission in Bulgaria.

(b) Greek claims upon Bulgaria, more particularly with reference
to reparations.

(c) Oil equipment in Rumania.

XII. IRAN

Mr. Eden, Mr. Stettinius and Mr. Molotov exchanged views on the
situation in Iran.  It was agreed that this matter should be
pursued through the diplomatic channel.

[Begin third section published Feb. 13, 1945.]

XIII. MEETINGS OF THE THREE FOREIGN SECRETARIES

The conference agreed that permanent machinery should be set up
for consultation between the three Foreign Secretaries; they
should meet as often as necessary, probably about every three or
four months.

These meetings will be held in rotation in the three capitals,
the first meeting being held in London.

[End third section published Feb. 13, 1945.]

XIV. THE MONTREAUX CONVENTION AND THE STRAITS

It was agreed that at the next meeting of the three Foreign
Secretaries to be held in London, they should consider proposals
which it was understood the Soviet Government would put forward
in relation to the Montreaux Convention, and report to their
Governments.  The Turkish Government should be informed at the
appropriate moment.

The forgoing protocol was approved and signed by the three
Foreign Secretaries at the Crimean Conference Feb. 11, 1945.

E. R. Stettinius Jr.
M. Molotov
Anthony Eden

AGREEMENT REGARDING JAPAN

The leaders of the three great powers - the Soviet Union, the
United States of America and Great Britain - have agreed that in
two or three months after Germany has surrendered and the war in
Europe is terminated, the Soviet Union shall enter into war
against Japan on the side of the Allies on condition that:

1. The status quo in Outer Mongolia (the Mongolian People's
Republic) shall be preserved.

2. The former rights of Russia violated by the treacherous
attack of Japan in 1904 shall be restored, viz.:

(a) The southern part of Sakhalin as well as the islands
adjacent to it shall be returned  to the Soviet Union;

(b) The commercial port of Dairen shall be internationalized,
the pre-eminent interests of the Soviet Union in this port being
safeguarded, and the lease of Port Arthur as a naval base of the
U.S.S.R. restored;

(c) The Chinese-Eastern Railroad and the South Manchurian
Railroad, which provide an outlet to Dairen, shall be jointly
operated by the establishment of a joint Soviet-Chinese company,
it being understood that the pre-eminent interests of the Soviet
Union shall be safeguarded and that China shall retain
sovereignty in Manchuria;

3. The Kurile Islands shall be handed over to the Soviet Union.

It is understood that the agreement concerning Outer Mongolia
and the ports and railroads referred to above will require
concurrence of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek.  The President
will take measures in order to maintain this concurrence on
advice from Marshal Stalin.

The heads of the three great powers have agreed that these
claims of the Soviet Union shall be unquestionably fulfilled
after Japan has been defeated.

For its part, the Soviet Union expresses it readiness to
conclude with the National Government of China a pact of
friendship and alliance between the U.S.S.R. and China in order
to render assistance to China with its armed forces for the
purpose of liberating China from the Japanese yoke.

Joseph Stalin
Franklin d. Roosevelt
Winston S. Churchill

February 11, 1945.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 2 Apr 1993 to 3 Apr 1993
***********************************************