Subject: WWII-L Digest - 17 May 1993 to 18 May 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 00:00:22 -0400

There are 22 messages totalling 583 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WEAP: Kradschuetzen (17)
  2. Economic/Resource Maps ?
  3. USAAF 18 MAY 43
  4. "The Thing" aka Kubelwagen
  5. REF: Resource Maps
  6. New Books

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Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 08:32:19 MET-1
From:    "Hr. Johannes KREMSNER" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

> would have trucks.  Krad means "chain", and is probably used to

Krad stands for Kraftrad and means actualy motorcycle.

servus, Johannes

+----------------------------------------------------------------+
 University of Art         e-Mail:[email-masked]
 and industrial Design
 Mr. Johannes Kremsner
 Networkadministrator
 Hauptplatz 8
 A-4020 LINZ/AUSTRIA
 EUROPA
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 17:45:57 +1000
From:    Mick Fauchon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

        "Kradschu"tzen" are motor-cycle infantry : "Krad" = Kraftrad =
motor-cycle ; "Schu"tzen" are riflemen.
                                        Hope this helps,

                                        Mick Fauchon,

                                        University of Newcastle.

                                        (Australia)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 12:55:43 EET
From:    "F.Baube[tm]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Economic/Resource Maps ?

Has anyone ever seen a map of WW2-era Europe that
shows the resources available and their locations ?
I'm thinking of food, coal, ore, oil, and so on.

--
* Fred Baube (tm)    * "Government had broken down.
* [email-masked]  *  I found the experience invigorating."
* 60 28' N  22 18' E *  -- Maurice Grimaud, Paris prefect of
* #include <disclaimer.h>                 police in May 1968

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 08:00:16 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 18 MAY 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 18 MAY 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, 6 B-24's, weathered out of Attu, bomb the Gertrude
Cove area on Kiska Island leaving large fires. 4 P-40's reconnoiter Kiska
and strafe barges. 1 B-25 flies photo reconnaissance over Kiska.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  The Combined Bomber Offensive (CBO) plan for the round-the-clock bombing
of the enemy from the UK by the RAF and Eighth Air Force is approve by the
Combined Chiefs of Staff (CCS). The Eighth Air Force now has authorization
to proceed with daylight strategic bombing within the type of combined
offensive it has long wished to initiate. The CBO plan lists the
destruction of German fighters as the immediate priority objective.
Primary objectives in order are German submarine yards and bases, the
German aircraft industry, ball bearings, and oil (the last being
contingent upon attacks from the Mediterranean against Ploesti, Rumania).
Secondary objectives in order of priority are synthetic rubber and tires,
and military motor transport vehicles.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sardinia during the night of l7/l8 May, Wellingtons bomb the
Alghero-Sassari area.
    In the Mediterranean during the day, the Northwest African Air Force
(NAAF) begins a strong air offensive against Pantelleria Island in
conjunction with a naval blockade. Over 80 B-25's and B-26's, escorted by
P-38's, blast the island, hitting Porto di Pantelleria and Marghana
Airfield.
    In Sicily, B-17's, with fighter escort, bomb Trapani.
    The 4th Troop Carrier Squadron, 62d Troop Carrier Group, transfers
with C-47's from Nouvion, Algeria to Matemore, Algeria.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, heavy bombers, operating individually, hit
Gasmata and Rabaul Airfields twice and Cape Gloucester, and Arawe; in
addition to Lorengau in the Admiralty Islands once.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  [email-masked]                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 06:08:58 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

>The book _Armored Fighting Vehicles of Germany WW2_ [editted by Duncan Crow]
>made mention of a "Kradschuetzen" [ue is an umlauted u] battalion for the
>10 SS Pz division. I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what this is.
>
>Scott.
>

Scott,

In German motorized units in WWII (panzer, panzer-grenadier, etc.) the
Kradschutzen Battalion was a battalion of infantry predominantly mounted
on motorcycles (many with sidecars) and Kubelwagen light utility vehicles
(similar to our Jeep).

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 08:46:00 EDT
From:    "W.C. \"Rusty\" DIVENS" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

Wasn't the 'Kubelwagen' the vehicle that VW marketed as "THE THING"
a few years back?

Bill
N93774@PITTVMS

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 08:20:21 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

>
> In German motorized units in WWII (panzer, panzer-grenadier, etc.) the
> Kradschutzen Battalion was a battalion of infantry predominantly mounted
> on motorcycles (many with sidecars) and Kubelwagen light utility vehicles
> (similar to our Jeep).

  Were there many "Kittenrad" (sp?, the "half-track motorcycles") in these
units?  I really love the concept of THAT hybrid :-)>.

  Anyone know if there are any still running?

> Barry
>
> Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
> MAJ, IN
> Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996
>

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 09:37:43 -0400
From:    Akira Takiguchi <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

Scott wrote:
>The book _Armored Fighting Vehicles of Germany WW2_ [editted by Duncan Crow]
>made mention of a "Kradschuetzen" [ue is an umlauted u] battalion for the
>10 SS Pz division. I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what this is.

     Bill and others have already described what a Kradschuetzen
Bataillon was like.  Here's a couple of tables from actual formation.

2. Panzer Division  18 July 1940
Kradschuetzen Bataillon
  1.-3. Kradschuetzen Kompanie (K.St.N. 1112 25-May-40)
  4. Kradschuetzen-M.G. Kompanie (K.St.N. 1118 1-Oct-38)
  5. schwere Kompanie (K.St.N. 1121,1122,1123,1124 1-Oct-37)
[from _Verbaende und Truppen ..._ Band 15  Tessin 1988]

     Tim, could you please tell me what kind of vehicles each company
was equipped with?  (you have Leo Niehorster's _German World War II
Organizational Series_, don't you)

Infanterie Division (mot) Grossdeutschland  1942
Kradschuetzen Bataillon
  1. Schwadron (heavy armored cars)
  2. Schwadron (light armored personnel carriers)
  3. Schwadron (Kuebelwagens)
  4. Schwadron (sMG on Kuebelwagens)
  5. Schwadron (towed guns)
[from _Panzer Grenadier Division Grossdeutchland_  Scheibert 1977]

     After the tide has changed to the Allies, Kradschuetzen Bataillon
disappeared as it is not appropriate for defensive tasks.
--
       Akira Takiguchi  at ATSON, Inc. (a subsidiary of the Asahi Shimbun)
                   WAKO GINZA bldg.  8-10-4 Ginza Chuo-ku Tokyo 104  Japan
   +81 3 3289 7051(voice) 7066(fax)  EMAIL TO <[email-masked]>

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Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 11:00:34 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

>Wasn't the 'Kubelwagen' the vehicle that VW marketed as "THE THING"
>a few years back?
>
>Bill
>N93774@PITTVMS
>

Bill,

You are 100% correct!  And a lot of Bundeswehr units still use a more modern
version of this vehicle, even though some newer types are out.

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 11:02:26 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

Larry J:

The museum at West Point has a Kettenkrad (actually short for
Kettenkraftfahrrad) and I'm pretty sure the Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen Proving
Grounds (in Maryland) has one too.

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 10:33:22 EST
From:    Larry Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

>
>Larry J:
>
>The museum at West Point has a Kettenkrad (actually short for
>Kettenkraftfahrrad) and I'm pretty sure the Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen Proving
>Grounds (in Maryland) has one too.

  Can you getting a listing of the holdings at the Academy museum, and/or
Aberdeen?  I'd like to put them at BYRD for general access.  I've been to
Aberdeen once, and am planning to go back in Nov. for a short visit.

> Barry
>
> Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
> MAJ, IN
> Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996
>
Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 12:08:10 -0500
From:    Neal Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: "The Thing" aka Kubelwagen

>
> Wasn't the 'Kubelwagen' the vehicle that VW marketed as "THE THING"
> a few years back?
>
> Bill
> N93774@PITTVMS
>

  Basically, yes.  I think the Kubelwagen was a little larger, but
I could definitely be wrong on this!  8-)

Later
Neal

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 19:17:09 EET
From:    "F.Baube[tm]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

>   Were there many "Kittenrad" (sp?, the "half-track motorcycles") in these
> units?  I really love the concept of THAT hybrid :-)>.
>
>   Anyone know if there are any still running?
>
> Larry J

couldn't tell you, but a few years ago "Easyriders"
magazine (hog heaven) featured one, it was a pretty
excellent-looking piece of machinery.

--
* Fred Baube (tm)    * "Government had broken down.
* [email-masked]  *  I found the experience invigorating."
* 60 28' N  22 18' E *  -- Maurice Grimaud, Paris prefect of
* #include <disclaimer.h>                 police in May 1968

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 12:26:17 EDT
From:    Robert E George <[email-masked]>
Subject: REF: Resource Maps

There is a large book with  a title something like "Times
Illustrated Atlas of the 2nd World War." Therein are resource maps
for Europe, East Asia, and the Soviet Union.

Email me if you want the exact title, and I will get back to you in
a few days.

Rob George

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 12:48:52 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

>>
>>Larry J:
>>
>>The museum at West Point has a Kettenkrad (actually short for
>>Kettenkraftfahrrad) and I'm pretty sure the Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen Provi
ng
>>Grounds (in Maryland) has one too.
>
>  Can you getting a listing of the holdings at the Academy museum, and/or
>Aberdeen?  I'd like to put them at BYRD for general access.  I've been to
>Aberdeen once, and am planning to go back in Nov. for a short visit.
>
>> Barry
>>
>> Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
>> MAJ, IN
>> Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996
>>
>Larry J
>

Larry J-

I'll ask the curator if they have one.  Give me a few days.  We give our final
exam on Thursday and then will have to spend the next 3 days grading it so
grades will be complete by Monday.

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 10:29:57 EDT
From:    "[email-masked]. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

Sorry 'bout that--I shot from the hip---Ketten means chains---I was
thinking about the wrong half of "kettenkrad".

Humbled and corrected, Tim

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 10:33:20 EDT
From:    "[email-masked]. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

VW Things are much larger than Kubelwagens.  I've seen them parked side
by side, and Kubels are much smaller.  A Kubel is the size of a VW Kafer
or Beetle.  I used to own a Beetle, and used to drive it to
reenactments.  Once I pulled up outside a German campsite at night, and
everybody had gotten outside of their tents to see the Kubel, when it
was just my green Beetle.

Tim

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 10:38:22 EDT
From:    "[email-masked]. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

A friend of mine used to own a Kettenkrad---there are more of them out
there than you would think.  There was a post-war production of them
that are fairly close to the WWII models.  They are neat, and are good
small tractors--as for anything else, they're pretty useless.  The guy
who owned one had to replace all the bearings at $200 a road wheel, or
something similarly expensive.  He never could afford to buy the
bearings.  The next owner found some synthetic ball bearing, and had it
up and running in a very short time.  I think the going rate for a
Kettenkrad is around $10,000 in the states, although I haven't seen any
for sale recently.

Tim

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 13:49:42 -0700
From:    anita cohen-williams <[email-masked]>
Subject: New Books

    The following three books have just have appeared at our library.
       Carroll, John M., and Colin F. Baxter (editors). THE AMERICAN MILITARY
TRADITION: FROM COLONIAL TIMES TO THE PRESENT. Wilmington, DE: Scholarly
Resources Inc. (SRI Books),1993.
       Oye, Kenneth A., Lieber, Robert J., and Donald Rothchild (editors).
EAGLE IN A NEW WORLD: AMERICAN GRAND STRATEGY IN THE POST-COLD WAR ERA. New
York: HarperCollins, 1992. (paperback)
       Spyropoulos, Evangelos. THE GREEK MILITARY (1909-1941) AND THE GREEK
MUTINIES IN THE MIDDLE EAST (1941-1944). East European Monographs, no. CCLX,
Boulder. Distributed by Columbia University Press, New York, 1993.
     More to follow.....

Anita Cohen-Williams; Reference Services; Hayden Library
Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ  85287-1006
PHONE: (602) 965-4576              FAX: (602) 965-9169
BITNET: IACAGC@ASUACAD       INTERNET: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 18 May 1993 16:41:58 EDT
From:    "[email-masked]. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

I accidently deleted the post that listed the unit in question so I can
look them up in my German Organizational Series.  I need to know the
year as well.  The later war books haven't been offered for sale by any
of the vendors I get catalouges from.  Could somebody please mail the
post to me so I can look it up.

Thanks----Tim

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 May 1993 10:15:32 +1000
From:    Mick Fauchon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

        Bill,

                The "Thing" to which you refer was in fact marketed by
Volkswagen (even here in Australia) to cater to the then infant cross-
country vehicle (now 4X4) market --- it was called the "Gela"ndewagen",
and like all VWs, was only two-wheel drive. Both the Ku"bel- and the
Schwimmwagen were based on the same chassis, though the body panels
were shaped differently on the Thing, and I suspect it had a slightly
longer wheelbase. Compare photographs, and you will see the differences.
There are also minor differences in details and layout.
        The Bundeswehr has a similar vehicle now, which looks much more
similar to the Ku"belwagen.
        BTW, "Ku"bel" refers to the configuration of the seats --- they were
buckets in the front, as opposed to the more normal bench arrangement.
        You will still see the occasional "live" Ku"bel around, but it
and the Thing, while sharing the same concept, are emphatically not the
same vehicle.

                                                        Regards,

                                                        Mick.
                                                        [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 19 May 1993 10:29:03 +1000
From:    Mick Fauchon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

        Barry,

                The short answer is a qualified "yes" : technically,
the Kettenkrad (Ketten = Tracks, Krad = Kraftrad = Motor-cyle) was
suppposed to eventually replace the motor-cycle/side-car combinations,
but in practice this never happened. There was a "Kleines Kettenkrad",
and a "Grosses Kettenkrad", which was, obviously, larger and more
powerful.
        To avoid any misconceptions at this stage : the terms "Krad"
and "Kettenkrad" are NOT synonymous.
        And yes, there are some still "live", though the only one that
springs readily to (my) mind is at the Wehrgeschichtliches Museum in
Rastatt.

                                                Regards,

                                                Mick.
                                                [email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 17 May 1993 to 18 May 1993
*************************************************