Subject: WWII-L Digest - 25 May 1993 to 26 May 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 00:00:13 -0400

There are 19 messages totalling 533 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. F-19/F-117
  2. USAAF Aircraft Desigantion System (6)
  3. Stealth ! (was Re: USAAF Aircraft Desigantion System
  4. USAAF 26 MAY 43
  5. Enola Gay
  6. First use of Napalm (3)
  7. Naval Institute Press: New Books
  8. German Carrier Graf Zeppelin"
  9. The German Carrier . . .
 10. The German Carrier Zepplin
 11. MEDAL OF FREEDOM
 12. BI evaluation form

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Date:    Tue, 25 May 1993 23:09:54 MDT
From:    Steve Alvin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: F-19/F-117

I did not express myself clearly on an earlier post.  I wasn't
suggesting that the F-117 pilot was saying the F-15 was ever called
the F-113, he was pointing out that if you took the F-14 through
the F-18 and applied them to the Century Series, the next number
would be 117.  Since several people have posted that in reality these
numbers were applied to Soviet aircraft, I guess the pilot didn't
know himself, or the disinformation campaign continued.

I just noticed that this is not the Aircraft list, but the WWII-L
list!  To the List Owner, I apologize for getting off the topic.

For those of you who are interested in aircraft of all eras you might
what to  subscribe to [email-masked].

Steve Alvin
Dickinson State University
[email-masked]
**********************************************************************
*Those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it.--Proverb*
*Those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat my class.-SA*
**********************************************************************

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Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 09:39:21 EET
From:    "F.Baube[tm]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF Aircraft Desigantion System

From: Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
>
> The F-111 [..] was an early 60s program ..
> The EF-111 is just
> a reuse of old airframes in a new role.

I've been told that they created the EF-111 because they had
all these terribly expensive airframes and still hadn't yet
found a genuinely useful role for them yet -- fighter and
bomber and fighter/bomber were all none too impressive.

--
* Fred Baube (tm)    * "Government had broken down.
* [email-masked]  *  I found the experience invigorating."
* 60 28' N  22 18' E *  -- Maurice Grimaud, Paris prefect of
* #include <disclaimer.h>                 police in May 1968

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 10:13:22 EET
From:    "F.Baube[tm]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Stealth ! (was Re: USAAF Aircraft Desigantion System

Further off the topic ..

From: Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
> Subject:      Re: USAAF Aircraft Desigantion System
>
> Seems the F-117 has [..] angular lines because the software
> used for its development is not capable of dealing with
> curves -- but that is only a rumour too.

The angular lines aid in eluding radar detection.  With flat
surfaces and straight lines, the plane reflects radar only to
a very limited set of angles -- just like how a mirror reflects
a flashlight.  And when one of those sharp reflected signal peaks
does sweep past the receiver, the noise suppression circuitry might
suppress it -- it will resemble a stray reflection, or noise generated
by the circuitry itself.

Relevance to WW II .. um .. how advanced *did* radar countermeasures get ?
For instance, was chaff used ?

--
* Fred Baube (tm)    * "Government had broken down.
* [email-masked]  *  I found the experience invigorating."
* 60 28' N  22 18' E *  -- Maurice Grimaud, Paris prefect of
* #include <disclaimer.h>                 police in May 1968

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 07:20:42 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 26 MAY 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 26 MAY 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, 8 B-24's and 11 B-25's, flying air-ground support,
bomb enemy positions. 2 B-24's and l2 P-38's fly air cover sorties and
also patrol and strafe Attu. Kiska is covered by 3 F-5A's photo sorties
and 3 attack missions, flown by 9 B-25's and 16 P-40's. Targets include
gun emplacements on North Head and the E end of the runway.

CENTRAL PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Seventh Air Force)
  In the Gilbert Islands, 3 B-24's from Canton Island in the Phoenix
Islands fly a reconnaissance-bombing mission over Abemama. Bombs are
dropped on a barracks area.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sardinia, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) medium and
heavy bombers hit the airfields at Ponte Olivo, Biscari, and Comiso.
P-38's hit Porto Ponte Romano shipping, and Villacidro Airfield.
    In the Mediterranean, NASAF P-40's attack gun emplacements, trucks,
and troops on the SE coast of Pantelleria Island. Northwest African
Tactical Air Force (NATAF) P-40's also bomb Pantelleria.
    In Italy, NASAF P-38's hit the Tirso power dam and the Golfo Aranci
harbor.
    HQ 81st Fighter Group transfers from Algeria to Monastir, Tunisia.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, 9 B-24's and B-25's bomb Madang town area and airfield.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
 Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  [email-masked]                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 07:21:51 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: USAAF Aircraft Desigantion System

        This is Jack.

        The F-111 design originated when MacNamara was SecDef under Kennedy
        or Johnson so the basic F-111 is almost 30 years old.  This design
        was to be MacNamara's answer to both the USAF and USN
        fighter-bomber needs but only the USAF bought it.  The EF-111A
        Sparkvarks were F-111A's that were upgraded into electronic
        aircraft in the last 10 years.

        I don't have enough info on the F-117 to determine when the
        designation was first assigned.

As a followup, the first F-111A was ordered in Fiscal Year 1963 (1
Jul 62 to 30 Jun 63) but I do not have the exact date.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 07:25:12 -0400
From:    Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF Aircraft Desigantion System

> From: Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
> >
> > The F-111 [..] was an early 60s program ..
> > The EF-111 is just
> > a reuse of old airframes in a new role.
>
> I've been told that they created the EF-111 because they had
> all these terribly expensive airframes and still hadn't yet
> found a genuinely useful role for them yet -- fighter and
> bomber and fighter/bomber were all none too impressive.

I think they had a very good role for them, the one they were designed for.
The strike on Libya was a prime example of what the F-111 was designed to do.
They took off from England, flew around Spain, hit the target, and returned to
home station around Spain. That is a very long mission.

The EF version came about because they needed an airframe with moderate
internal volume, good loiter capability ( to provide barrier jamming), good
penetration capability ( to provide enroute support for tactical aircraft), and
low cost ( It was real tight budgets during the Carter Years). The F-111 was
the only airframe with enough volume and a dash capability. The Navy uses the
EA-6 which has a similar electronic suite but uses 4 crewmembers. Actually the
A-6 is the closest match to the F-111 I can think of in capability overall.

Bob Smart ([email-masked])
>
>
> --
> * Fred Baube (tm)    * "Government had broken down.
> * [email-masked]  *  I found the experience invigorating."
> * 60 28' N  22 18' E *  -- Maurice Grimaud, Paris prefect of
> * #include <disclaimer.h>                 police in May 1968

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 07:31:58 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Enola Gay

        I'm building a model of the B-29 "Enola Gay". I'm not sure if the tail fin
        markings are correct. The decals with the kit have an "R" in a circle, but I
        have several photos supposedly of "Enola Gay" with a forward pointing arrow in
        a circle. One book about B-29's said that the arrow markings should have been
        replaced by about May-June 1945. Can anyone tell me the correct tail fin
        markings for "Enola Gay" during its mission to Hiroshima?

        Wilber.

Wilber,
I am at work but I remember reading that the 509th Bomb Group (VH)
carried the markings of another group while they were in the
Marianas so that they would not be distinctive, i.e., they would
blend in with the rest of the B-29s.  In that case, I believe the
circled R was probably correct and I believe the forward pointing
arrow was applied post WWII.

Let me check my sources when I get home tonight and see what I can
find.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  [email-masked]                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 07:49:31 EDT
From:    "Kurt L." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: First use of Napalm

From: Kurt L.
Wasn't NAPALM used in Korea?  I thought I read that somewhere. Any help?

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 09:49:38 -0230
From:    NAME <[email-masked]>
Subject: Naval Institute Press: New Books

The latest ("Fall 1993") Naval Institute Press catalogue of
forthcoming publications has been released. Some (but by no means
all) of the books scheduled for publication are listed below; the
parenthetical reference is to the month in which the books is
expected to be released.

                           *   *   *   *   *

Victor Sheymov, _Tower of Secrets: The Intelligence Coup of
the Cold War_ (October; $24.95/ISBN 1-55750-764-3). An insider's
account of the KGB.

Jules Verne, _Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea: The
Completely Restored and Annotated Edition_ (September;
$24.95/ISBN 1-55750-877-1, hardcover. $14.95/0-87021-678-3,
paper). O.K., so this is fiction. But it's always been my
personal favourite Jules Verne, so I thought I'd throw it in. How
many submariners have been drawn to their profession by this
book?

Luc Coyvers, _Sea Power: A Global Journey_ (October;
$38.95/1-55750-145-9, hardcover; $22.95/1-55750-146-7, paper).
This is the companion volume to a forthcoming six- part Discovery
Channel series produced by US, British and Japanese public
television

John B. Lundstrom, _The First Team and the Guadalcanal Campaign:
Naval Fighter Combat from August to November 1942_
(November; $44.95/1-55750-526-8). A sequel to Lundstrom's _The
First Team_; looks at the reorganization of the US Navy's
fighting squadrons and carrier groups after Midway.

Viktor Leonov, _Blood on the Shores: Soviet Naval Commandos in
World War II_ (November; $24.95/1-55750-506-3). First English
edition of a 1957 Soviet study. A study of the "morskiye
razvedchiki," forerunners of the Russian naval "Spetsnaz."

Robert Mikesh, _Broken Wings of the Samurai: The Destruction of
the Japanese Air Force_ (October; $34.95/1-55750-083-5). NOT a
war history of the Japanese air force, but rather, a study of the
destruction of Japanese aircraft by occupation forces after their
arrival in Japan at the end of the war.

C. Raymond Calhoun, _Tin Can Sailor: Life Aboard the USS Sterett,
1939-1945_ (September; $23.95/1-55750-108-4). The Guadalcanal
campaign through the eyes of a destroyer crew.

James C. Bradford (ed.), _Crucible of Empire: The Spanish-
American War & Its Aftermath_ (August; $31.95/1-55750-079-7). A
collection of essays by top US military & naval historians.

Donald Canney, _The Old Steam Navy, Volume 2: The Ironclads,
1842-1885_ (September; $49.95/0-87021-586-8). First comprehensive
study of USN ironclads, with complete descriptions of over 90
ironclads.

US Naval Intelligence (intro. A.D. Baker III), _German Naval
Vessels of World War II_ (September; $32.95/ 1-55750-304-4).
First printed in 1943 as a guide-to-recognition for the American
fleet, this is a facsimile reference with over 1,200
illustrations of everything from tenders & mine vessels to U-
boats to battleships & battlecruisers; there is even coverage,
including a plan and profile, of the carrier "Graf Zeppelin" as
it would have appeared on completion.

Olaf Janzen
Department of History
Sir Wilfred Grenfell College
Corner Brook, Newfoundland
A2H 6P9

e-mail: [email-masked]

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Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 09:58:10 -0230
From:    NAME <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German Carrier Graf Zeppelin"

Those interested in the "Graf Zeppelin" may be interested to learn
that the Naval Institute Press will release a new book this fall, a
facsimile reprint of the 1943 guide-to-recognition of German warships
prepared for the US Navy. Entitled _German Naval Vessels of World War
II_ and with an introduction by A.D. Baker III, the book will include
coverage, complete with plan and profile, of the "Graf Zeppelin" as
it would have appeared on completion. The book will be released in
September, and will cost $32.95; the ISBN is 1-55750-304-4.

Olaf Janzen
Department of History
Sir Wilfred Grenfell College
Corner Brook, Newfoundland

e-mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 08:26:55 EDT
From:    John Sherwood <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: First use of Napalm

Napalm was used extensively in Korea, begining with an F-82 CAS napalm
strike on 29 June 50 (4 days after the start of the war).  Napalm was
found to a very effective weapon against the T-34 tank.  Mustangs,
equiped with 500 pound bombs filled with napalm and thermite, are
widely credited for having stopped the North Korean armour thrust
against Pusan during the early stages of the war.  Although such
claims my be exagerated, it should be empasized that napalm was used
extensively during the entire war, and was regarded to be one of the
most effective anti-personal and anti-tank weapons in the US
inventory at the time.  For more on the use of napalm in Korea, see
*The USAF in Korea* by Robert F Futrell.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 08:47:15 EDT
From:    John Sherwood <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF Aircraft Desigantion System

I am certainly no expert on the F-111, but from the pilots I have spoken
with, my impression is that they were intended to be used as medium
range nuclear strike aircraft. The raid on Lybia was a long-range,
conventional, surgical strike.  What is more, it can hardly be labled
 as a succcess: the intended target is still alive and running the
country.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 08:56:31 EDT
From:    Robert E George <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The German Carrier . . .

In William Green's book "Warplanes of the 3rd Reich" you can see
line drawings, specs, and photos of a fighter and a torpedo bomber
planned for use on the carrier. Look under Arado and Fieseler [sp?]

Robert George

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 15:08:24 +0200
From:    Chris Scogings <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The German Carrier Zepplin

After the Battle of the Barents Sea, in which the German Navy didn't do too
well, Hitler threatened to scrap the entire surface fleet.  He was
eventually calmed down and persuaded to leave the surface fleet alone, but
he did insist on halting all further work on the carrier.

Have I got that right?

Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Scogings                      Voice: (27) 331 955645
Computer Science Dept                 Fax: (27) 331 955599
University of Natal
Pietermaritzburg                   E-Mail:[email-masked]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 15:05:16 +0200
From:    Chris Scogings <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: First use of Napalm

I've seen a photo somewhere of USA planes (navy?) using napalm against
Japanese positions in 1945.  Not much help, I know...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Scogings                      Voice: (27) 331 955645
Computer Science Dept                 Fax: (27) 331 955599
University of Natal
Pietermaritzburg                   E-Mail:[email-masked]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 09:32:00 EDT
From:    "Pete.Goldsmith" <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDAL OF FREEDOM

Hello everyone,

I am interested in learning about the civilians who served with the U.S. Army
in the defense of Bataan and Corregidor. Some of these people were imprisoned
in Bilibid Prison and some were awarded the Medal of Freedom for their
service.
Any ideas where to look for the citations for the award of the medal?

Thanks,
Pete Goldsmith
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 09:51:37 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF Aircraft Desigantion System

F.Baube[tm] writes:
|->
|-> From: Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
|-> >
|-> > The F-111 [..] was an early 60s program ..
|-> > The EF-111 is just
|-> > a reuse of old airframes in a new role.
|->
|-> I've been told that they created the EF-111 because they had
|-> all these terribly expensive airframes and still hadn't yet
|-> found a genuinely useful role for them yet -- fighter and
|-> bomber and fighter/bomber were all none too impressive.

        There's a lot of blame to go around between McNamara's agenda,
the "great" cooperation of the Air Force and Navy, and screw ups by
General Dynamics. But no matter what the blame, you cannot escape the
laws of nature. According to my brother who worked on the F-111 at
GDFW, the original design had a shot at being interesting. However,
the DOD kept adding avionics and nifty computers to the design. Each
of these additions required counter balancing rear weights and before
you know what's going on, not only is the beast too heavy for a
carrier landing, but the overall flight performance is suffering.
        (Gee!! I didn't realize that WWII lasted into the '60s.)

                                                     --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 12:34:00 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: USAAF Aircraft Desigantion System

RE: F-111
        I remember building a plastic kit of the F-111 way back in the
mid or late sixties.  What I remember about the kit above almost any
other I built then, is the detachable escape pod for the crew.  I don't
know if it is/was accurate, but I used to use it when playing, as the
minisub from "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea".

                                        Richard Kaplan
                                        [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 May 1993 12:44:16 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: BI evaluation form

Mary, Its bad enough when the students call me Mr. Kaplan; I'll be damned if
peers will.  Just call me Richard.
        I'll send you a copy of our form today even.  Its not detailed, and
we keep talking about revising it, but that will get done sometime just before
the year 2000.  Actually we'll have to do a major revision next year when our
OPAC is up, and we've introduced the student and faculty bodies to FirstSearch.
I hand the form out with whatever other handouts I give a class prior to
beginning the BI session.  I tell them what I've given them, including a
reference to the eval. and how they have the opportunity to critique me.  As
I end the session I remind them to fill it out and return it at the main desk,
or send it via campus mail.  Most everyone simply completes it and gives it
back to the librarian doing the session.  None of the comments are earth
shattering, and the categories that they grade 1-5 are weak.  I get burned
up when someone says I didn't give them enough handouts, how do they know?
        If you have any other questions, drop me a note.

                                Richard Kaplan
                                [email-masked]

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End of WWII-L Digest - 25 May 1993 to 26 May 1993
*************************************************