Subject: WWII-L Digest - 15 May 1993 to 17 May 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 00:00:27 -0400

There are 12 messages totalling 405 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. USAAF 16 MAY 43
  2. USAAF 17 MAY 43
  3. USAAF 14 MAY 43 (4)
  4. Airshows
  5. WEAP: Kradschuetzen (5)

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Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 07:09:29 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 16 MAY 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SUNDAY, 16 MAY 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, the air-ground liaison B-24 bombs Chichagof Harbor
with unobserved results. Another B-24 drops supplies to ground forces on
Attu. 8 B-24's, 12 B-25's, and 12 P-38's fly ground support missions to
Attu; because of weather, only the P-38's get through and strafe AA guns,
installations and barges, scoring several hits. The bombers are directed
to bomb Kiska. 2 P-40's fly reconnaissance mission over Kiska.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    P-40's escort shipping off the Mediterranean coast.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sicily,  Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) Wellingtons
bomb Trapani during the night of 15/16 May.
    Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF) and Northwest African
Coastal Air Force (NACAF) planes fly sea patrol, reconnaissance, and
convoy escort.
    The 51st Troop Carrier Squadron (C-47's), 62d Troop Carrier Group,
transfers from Nouvion, Algeria to Matemore, Algeria.
    HQ 350th Fighter Group transfers from Oran, Algeria to Maison Blanche,
Algeria. It's 345th Fighter Squadron (P-39's) transfers from La Senia,
Algeria to Maison Blanche, Algeria.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In the Celebes, B-24's bomb the Kendari Airfield area.
  Single heavy bombers attack coastal or offshore targets in NE New Guinea,
New Britain, and New Ireland.
  HQ 8th Fighter Group transfers from Mareeba, Queensland, Australia to
Port Moresby, New Guinea.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  [email-masked]                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 07:56:02 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 17 MAY 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
MONDAY, 17 MAY 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eleventh Air Force)
  In the Aleutians, 2 attempted ground support missions to Attu by a B-24,
5 B-25's, and 6 P-38's are recalled due to weather.
  The detachment of the 11th Fighter Squadron (P-40's), 343d Fighter Group
that has been operating from Amchitka returns to it's base at Adak.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
  VIII Bomber Command Mission Number 58: 159 B-17's are dispatched to hit
the port area and U-boat base at Lorient, France; 118 bomb the target at
1213-1217 hours local; we claim 47-8-29 Luftwaffe aircraft; we lose 6 B-
17's, another is damaged beyond repair and 27 others are damaged;
casualties are 1 KIA, 8 WIA and 57 MIA. An additional 39 B-17's are
dispatched to hit the docks and sub pens at Bordeaux, France; 34 bomb at
1238-1244 hours local; we claim 0-1-0 Luftwaffe aircraft; we lose 1 B-17
and another is damaged; casualties are 2 WIA and 11 MIA. In a third
mission 11 B-26's of the 322d Bombardment Group (Medium) are dispatched on
a low-level mission to bomb power stations at Haarlem and Ijmuiden, The
Netherlands; 1 B-26 aborts, the other 10 are all shot down before they
reach the target; casualties are 58 MIA. This mission prompts the Eighth
Air Force to abandon low-level medium bomber attacks.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Italy, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) Wellingtons
bomb the Lido di Roma seaplane base and drop leaflets over Rome.
    The 8th Troop Carrier Squadron (C-47's), 62d Troop Carrier Group,
transfers from Nouvion, Algeria to Matemore, Algeria.
    The 309th Fighter Squadron Spitfires), 31st Fighter Group, transfers
with Spitfires from Le Sers, Tunisia to Korba, Tunisia.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomons, P-39's and Navy airplanes bomb and strafe a bivouac and
AA positions in the Rekata Bay area.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In Timor,  B-25's bomb Dili, Penfoei, and Barique.
  In the Bismarck Archipelago, B-25's bomb Gasmata; single heavy bombers
hit Gasmata and Cape Gloucester.
  In New Guinea, single heavy bombers hit Lae and Finschhafen.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  [email-masked]                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 07:56:05 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: USAAF 14 MAY 43

        What are snooper missions?
        --
        Joe Barone
        [email-masked]
        I'm a first generation Italian.  They would shoot me as a traitor.

Snooper missions were one (or a few) aircraft overflying an island,
usually at night, to keep the troops awake.  They might even drop a
few bombs to shake them up.

Joe, you say you are first generation Italian.  Do you mean you are
first generation American of Italian descent or first generation
Italian of American descent?

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Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 07:57:31 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Airshows

According to an article in the NY Times on Sunday, May 16, the US
Navy's aerobatic team, the Blue Angels, have cancelled their
demonstrations at NAS Corpus Christi, Texas; NAS Patuxent River,
Maryland; and the US Naval Academy, Annapolis, Maryland.

The commander of the Blue Angels, Commander Bob Stumpf, has been
reassigned due to the Tailhook scandal and his replacement, Captain
Greg Wooldridge, the previous commander of the Blue Angels, will need
some time to reacclimate himself.  Commander Stumpf commanded Strike
Fighter Squadron 83 at Cecil Field, Florida during the Las Vegas event.
According to the Times, the admiral who is overseeing the Tailhook
investigation order Commander Stumpf and five other officers reassigned
"to make the inquiry easier."  Navy officials "said the reassignment of
the six officers should not be construed in itself as adverse action."

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Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 10:16:52 -0400
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

The book _Armored Fighting Vehicles of Germany WW2_ [editted by Duncan Crow]
made mention of a "Kradschuetzen" [ue is an umlauted u] battalion for the
10 SS Pz division. I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what this is.

Scott.

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Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 11:40:23 EDT
From:    "[email-masked]. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

I would think the Kradschutzen Battalion would be the one with 251
half-tracks, and the other battalion in the Panzergrenadier Regiment
would have trucks.  Krad means "chain", and is probably used to
differentiate between the truck and halftrack battalions of the division
Panzergrenadier Regiment.  I know in the 11th Panzer Regiment, we
reenact the 2nd Battalion (5th Company), because this would be the truck
mounted battalion, versus the first, which would have APC's--which (I'm
feeling optimistic) we don't have yet.

Now some SS Panzer Divisions were well enough equiped to have both PG
battalions with halftracks.  The 10th was probably one of the lower
esteemed divisions, and were equiped like a typical PD.  I don't know
this for sure.

Funny story---A friend of mine, which is a contract negotiator for
McDonnel-Douglas on the F-18 program, who knows nothing about WWII,
looked at a US halftrack and quiped, "Typical government contract--they
changed their mind during production and look what they got!" (referring
to it being a truck/tank hybrid.

Tim

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

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Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 13:15:52 -0500
From:    Neal Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

>
> I would think the Kradschutzen Battalion would be the one with 251
> half-tracks, and the other battalion in the Panzergrenadier Regiment
> would have trucks.  Krad means "chain", and is probably used to
> differentiate between the truck and halftrack battalions of the division
> Panzergrenadier Regiment.  I know in the 11th Panzer Regiment, we
> reenact the 2nd Battalion (5th Company), because this would be the truck
> mounted battalion, versus the first, which would have APC's--which (I'm
> feeling optimistic) we don't have yet.
>

  I believe the armored BNs were designated _gepanzert_.  You could
be correct though.  Have you tried looking up the entire word?  I'll
look tonight when I get home!

Later
Neal Smith

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Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 13:21:51 EDT
From:    "William B. Thacker" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

Tim Scherrer writes:

> I would think the Kradschutzen Battalion would be the one with 251
> half-tracks, and the other battalion in the Panzergrenadier Regiment
> would have trucks.

No, both would be Panzergrenadiere.  Those in halftracks are "gepanzert"
(armored), those in trucks are "motorisiert" (motorized).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker             AT&T Network Systems       attmail!att!cbemf!wbt
Quality Engineer            Columbus, Ohio              [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 14:25:54 -0400
From:    "M. Joseph Barone" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF 14 MAY 43

>> I'm a first generation Italian.  They would shoot me as a traitor.

> Joe, you say you are first generation Italian.  Do you mean you are
> first generation American of Italian descent or first generation
> Italian of American descent?

Actually, the line is from the movie, Kelly's Heroes.  It's one of my
favorite flicks and I try to include quotes from it whenever I can!
In the scene in question, an Italian-American is worried about being
captured by the Germans.  As it turns out, the first part is true as
applied to me:  I am a first generation American of Italian descent.
My father was in the Italian Army during the war (Signals Company of
an Engineers Battalion (unknown division) in the 10th Army in Naples).
My mother was in the Resistance in Northern Italy (Obligatory Women's
Auxillary Unit; i.e., against her will).

I recently received a phone call from an American Vet from WWII looking
for a Barone in his unit.  I told him that my father fought on the other
side and he lost interest in talking to me.  I was bummed since I wanted
to talk to him some more but he hung up before I could get any info from
him.  Oh, well.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
Hey, baby, this was a wasted trip.  Nobody
told us about locking horns with Tigers.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 12:10:13 EDT
From:    "William B. Thacker" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Kradschuetzen

Scott Hannon writes:

> The book _Armored Fighting Vehicles of Germany WW2_ [editted by Duncan Crow]
> made mention of a "Kradschuetzen" [ue is an umlauted u] battalion for the
> 10 SS Pz division. I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what this is.

Motorcycle infantry.  These were part of all the panzer and motorized
divisions (and, I believe, even the regular infantry divisions).  Their
role included reconnaissance, communications, and combat; they were so
mobile that they were usually in the vanguard of the advance and so were
often tasked with seizing bridges and other key features.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker             AT&T Network Systems       attmail!att!cbemf!wbt
Quality Engineer            Columbus, Ohio              [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 15:51:01 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: USAAF 14 MAY 43

        Actually, the line is from the movie, Kelly's Heroes.  It's one of my
        favorite flicks and I try to include quotes from it whenever I can!
        In the scene in question, an Italian-American is worried about being
        captured by the Germans.  As it turns out, the first part is true as
        applied to me:  I am a first generation American of Italian descent.
        My father was in the Italian Army during the war (Signals Company of
        an Engineers Battalion (unknown division) in the 10th Army in Naples).
        My mother was in the Resistance in Northern Italy (Obligatory Women's
        Auxillary Unit; i.e., against her will).

        --
        Joe Barone
        [email-masked]

Just curious since I am first generation American myself.  Both of
my parents came from Ireland.  Not sure whether my father was
"officially" in the IRA but I learned from my aunts over there that
he used to "work" with them.  He never said a word.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 17 May 1993 15:47:20 -0400
From:    Steven VEST <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF 14 MAY 43

========================== [email-masked] =============================
= Steven Vest: Electronic Reference Librarian: Nova University, Ft. Ldl, FL  =

On Mon, 17 May 1993, M. Joseph Barone wrote:

A bit about Italians and Kelly's Heroes deleted.

> Joe Barone
> [email-masked]
> Hey, baby, this was a wasted trip.  Nobody
> told us about locking horns with Tigers.

"Always with the negative waves Moriarity.  Always with the negative waves!"

I couldn't resist.

Woof woof baby.

Now back to some serious discussions.

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End of WWII-L Digest - 15 May 1993 to 17 May 1993
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