Subject: WWII-L Digest - 5 Aug 1993 to 6 Aug 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1993 14:57:49 -0400

There are 10 messages totalling 541 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. USAAF 6 AUG 43
  2. information
  3. British cruiser Delhi
  4. MISC: B-24 raids on Ploesti oil fields
  5. INF: Andrew Query
  6. NAV: A question about frigates (modern) (3)
  7. USAAF 7-8 AUG 43
  8. Shipping losses

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Date:    Fri, 6 Aug 1993 07:24:18 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 6 AUG 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 6 AUGUST 1943

FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ANTISUBMARINE WARFARE (AAF Antisubmarine Command)
    A B-25 of the 10th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 25th Bombardment
Group (Medium), and US Navy land-based aircraft sink U-615 at l2-38N
64-15W.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ANTISUBMARINE WARFARE (AAF Antisubmarine Command)
    HQ 479th Antisubmarine Group and it's 4th and 19th Antisubmarine
Squadrons (Heavy) transfer with B-24's from St Eval to Dunkeswell, England.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
    The 352d Fighter Squadron, 353d Fighter Group, transfers from Goxhill
to Raydon, England with P-47's. The squadron will fly it's first combat
mission on Monday and will remain at this station until Apr 44.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Sicily, 60+ B-26's hit Bronte, Catania, and Randazzo and the area N
of the Adrano-Biancavilla road; 20+ others bomb road intersections in
Adrano and Bronte; and 100+ P-40's attack shipping and shore targets in the
Messina area while 30 others attack shipping on the W coast.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sicily, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) B-17's bomb
coastal roads near Messina; B-26's and B-25's hit a road junction SW of
Badiazza and railroad bridges N of Gesso; Northwest African Tactical Air
Force (NATAF) light and medium bombers hit roads, junctions, and buildings
in the Troina, Adrano, Biancavilla, Tortorici, Bronte, Piranino, and Ran-
dazzo areas and the Bagnara Italy area; and fighter-bombers hit shipping
from Vibo Valentia S to the Straits of Messina.
    On the ground in Sicily, US troops are unable to cross the Furiano
River as fierce resistance continues. At Troina, troops push through the
town and 1 mile (1.6 km) to the E before opposition halts them. The British
take Biancavilla, and Adrano falls as the enemy pulls out during the night
of 6/7 Aug.
    HQ 301st Bombardment Group (Heavy) and it's 32d, 353d and 419th
Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) transfer with B-17's from St-Donat, Algeria
to Oudna, Tunisia.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  On Santa Isabel Island in the Solomon Islands, 20 P-39's and P-40's hit
the Tanagaba Harbor area; and 24 B-17's and B-24's, 24 B-25's, and 50+ US
Navy and US Marine Corps fighters and dive bombers pound the Rekata Bay
area, hitting bivouac and supply areas.
  The 63d Troop Carrier Squadron, 403d Troop Carrier Group, arrives on
Espiritu Santo Island, New Hebrides Islands from the US with C-47's. The
squadron begins flying missions upon arrival.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  During the night of 6/7 Aug, B-24's bomb Laha Airfield on Amboina Island
in the Celebes Islands.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  [email-masked]                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Aug 1993 16:58:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: information

Silvio, here some notes on the cruisers you asked for.

The Adventure is a ww1 cruiser(launched 1904).
All I could find was a statement of 1919: should never be used again,
except in great emergency. This means IMO waiting for scrap.

The other 6 are all of the same class and known as the Emergency War
Programmme ships.(ww1)
12 ships were ordered, 4 cancelled(Daedalus,Daring,Desparate and Dryad)
8 ships served in ww2 as obselate cruisers only for escort duties.
1 became a war loss(Dunedin)
1 goes to the Polish Navy in 1943(Dragon)
So the 6 you mentioned have survived the WWII.

Some data:
 Delhi      20-sep-1940 interception of Vichy cruiser (Primauguet) and
                        escort to Casablanca.
                   1947 is to be fitted out as a stationary drillship
                        for R.N.V.R.
 Durban      8-dec-1941 Singapore
            14-feb-1942 Batavia, evacuated US Adm.Hart to Colombo.
 Dauntless     jul-1928 grounded by Nova Scotia, heavy damaged.
                   1930 again in service after complete refit.
 Diomede                served in New Zealand division for over 10 yrs.
 Danae      21-feb-1942 under Vice Admiral Helfrich to Western Striking
                        Force, based  Batavia.
            26-feb-1942 Sweep to NW, no result.
            27-feb-1942 Sweep to N,  no result.
            28-feb-1942 Last sweep and back to Colombo.

Jane's give the name Danea to a cancelled (1947) ship of the Daring class.
This means that in 1947 the cruiser Danea was out of service.
The other ships, I found only the Gunboat Tern, a WWII loss.

Peter de Lange
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Aug 1993 10:14:46 CDT
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: British cruiser Delhi

The Delhi is also of interest in that, about halfway through the war, she
  was refitted in an American yard with five (?) American 5"/38 Dual-
  Purpose guns in single-gun turrets for a main battery.

Apparently, this was a very successful armament, but the ship herself was
  probably inferior in design and strength to an American Fletcher-class
  destroyer, despite her larger tonnage -- and had a larger crew at risk.

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Aug 1993 14:29:27 -0400
From:    "Robert F. Kieran" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MISC: B-24 raids on Ploesti oil fields

        From: Steve Alvin <[email-masked]>
        Subject: Re: MISC: B-24 raids on Ploesti oil fields
        Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 13:28:43 MDT

        On Monday 2 Aug, John Peterson asked:

...
        Since 1991, the U. S. Postal Service has produced a series of eight
        stamps each year to commemorate (sp?) U. S. envolvment in WW II.  You
        can buy all eight on a sheet that includes a map of the world showing
        the progress of the Allied forces.  I don't have my stamps with me
        (I'm not really a stamp collector, but this is a well done series)
        but if memory serves stamps from last year included:  Doolittle's
        Raid, Midway & Coral Sea, Operation Torch, and a "Homefront" stamp.

        Steve Alvin
        Dickinson State University
        [email-masked]
        **********************************************************************
        *Those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it.--Proverb*
        *Those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat my class.-SA*
        **********************************************************************

     Also, please note that each year there has been a commemorative book
issued as well. This is on the order of a descriptive narrative, with
spaces left to paste in the appropriate stamp. Each book comes with a full
set of the stamps, and I think the total cost was around $ 20.00. I can't
remember what the quality of the narritive was like (I moved recently, and
these are still packed), but the pictures were good, if I remember
correctly.

     Certain post offices seem to have been designated as major suppliers
of all the various commemorative stamps the post office issues. Check
with your local post office for the nearest one to you. It's possible that
they may still have copies of the 1991 and 1992 issues: I know I found the
1991 book in mid 1992. Perhps they'll tell you where to call and/or write
to order them.

                                                Regards,
                                                Bob Kieran
                                                [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Aug 1993 14:22:00 CDT
From:    Bill Kupersmith <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: Andrew Query

During the Second World War, and I believe for a great many
years before, the Royal Navy, or perhaps specifically the
Admiralty, was referred to as "Andrew" or "the Andrew."  Can
anyone tell us when and why the expression originated?

--Bill Kupersmith
Univ. of Iowa

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Aug 1993 14:26:56 -0500
From:    Glenn Millard <[email-masked]>
Subject: NAV: A question about frigates (modern)

Sorry, to be off the subject of this list. I looked around in our newgroups
for a better group and couldn't find one. With many naval experts on this
list I'm sure one of them could give me a quick yes or no answer to my question.
I was recently talking to a friend of mine about the USS Lexington now on
display at Corpus Christi. The discussion strayed to a mention about a trip
of his to the Northeast, New Hampshire or Vermont, where he visited the
Bath Iron Works. They work on the new modern frigates for the US Navy.
He heard there that the new frigates could do 60 knots and stop in their
length from a speed like this. For a ship this seems extreme, even now days.
Fact or Fiction?

 Respond to me directly since this is off subject for the list.
 However, if you want to here more about the Lady Lex let me know, I got
 to tour her a month ago.

 Glenn Millard
 Academic Support
 Stephen F. Austin State University
 Internet: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Aug 1993 14:35:33 EDT
From:    "[email-masked]. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <[email-masked]>
Subject: NAV: A question about frigates (modern)

60 knots????????????????????????????  Are these some kind of SR-71
ships???  I know a fast sealift ship maxes out at around 30 knots.
These are about as fast as they get for merchant ships.  Carriers are a
little faster, but 60 knots.  That seems extreme.  Stopping in a length
of a ship is pretty extreme as well.  I wouldn't buy a used car from
this friend based upon these stories.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Aug 1993 15:47:33 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 7-8 AUG 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 7 AUGUST 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ZONE OF INTERIOR (HQ AAF)
    The AAF Redistribution Center is established at Atlantic City, New
Jersey to receive, rehabilitate, and reassign personnel returning from
overseas.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Sicily, 150 B-25's attack Randazzo; and 140+ P-40's attack shipping
at Messina and in the Straits, and shipping and shore-supply stores along
the NE coast.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Sicily throughout the day Northwest African Tactical Bomber Force
(NATBF) medium and light bombers pound Randazzo, the enemy's key withdrawal
point; Maletto is also bombed; P-40's and A-36's strafe and bomb small
craft between Sicily and mainland Italy, motor transport near Randazzo, a
warehouse N of Messina, dumps on the toe of Italy, and vehicles and commu-
nications targets in the Sant' Agata di Militello, Bronte, Cesaro, Torto-
rici, Castiglione di Sicilia and Riposto areas. In Italy, Northwest African
Strategic Air Force (NASAF) B-25's in 2 forces hit the landing ground at
Crotone while B-26's bomb the railroad bridge at Marina di Cantanzaro and
highway bridge over the Angitola River.
    On the ground in Sicily, US forces improve their positions on the N
coast in the San Fratello region against heavy resistance. During the night
of 7/8 Aug, a small amphibious force lands on the coast 2 miles (3.2 km) E
of Sant' Agata di Militello, greatly aiding progress along the coast. Other
forces begin a drive on Randazzo.
    HQ 5th Bombardment Wing transfers from Chateaudun, Algeria to Depienne,
Tunisia.
    HQ 47th Bombardment Wing (Medium) transfers from Souk-el-Arba to Hamma-
met, Tunisia.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomon Islands, 16 B-24's and 40+ B-25's, plus nearly 30 US Navy
airplanes, pound the harbor and shore areas of Bairoko on New Georgia
Island.
  The 64th Troop Carrier Squadron, 403d Troop Carrier Group, transfers with
C-47's from Tontouta, New Caledonia to Espiritu Santo Island, New Hebrides
Islands.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-24's thoroughly pound the Salamaua area and also hit
Kela Village. On Timor Island, B-25's hit Cape Chater Airfield and Lautem.

SUNDAY, 8 AUGUST 1943

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  Beaufighter, Bristol
  F4U, Vought Corsair (USN)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
    VIII Air Support Command Mission 15: 36 B-26's are dispatched to
Poix/Nord Airfield, France but the formation is turned back by weather.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Sicily, 90+ B-25's bomb the Randazzo area; 130+ P-40's hit shipping
at Messina and provide ground support in NE Sicily as US and British forces
push E and N, capturing Sant' Agata di Militello, Monte Camolato, and
Bronte.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) B-26's hit highway and
rail bridges at Angitola, Italy, while P-38's strafe trains and other
targets of opportunity SW of the town. In Sicily, Northwest African Tacti-
cal Air Force (NATAF) light and medium bombers pound Randazzo; fighters hit
road targets N of Etna, shipping in the Straits of Messina and cover ground
forces at Sant' Agata di Militello.
    HQ 63d Fighter Wing transfers from Maison Blanche to Rerhaia, Algeria.
    HQ 321st Bombardment Group (Medium) transfers from Souk-el-Arba to
Soliman, Tunisia.
    The 352d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 301st Bombardment Group (Heavy),
transfers with B-17's from St-Donat, Algeria to Oudna, Tunisia.
    The 416th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force, arrives at Al-
giers, Algeria from England where it trained with Beaufighters.
    The 417th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force, arrives at Tafara-
oui, Algeria from England where it trained with Beaufighters. The squadron
flies it's first combat mission today.
    The 445th, 447th and 448th Bombardment Squadrons (Medium), 321st
Bombardment Group (Medium), transfer with B-25's from Souk-el-Arba to
Soliman, Tunisia.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  On Kolombangara Island in the Solomon Islands, 23 B-25's, with P-38's,
P-39's, and US Navy F4U's as cover, bomb Vila and Buki harbor.
  The 72d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 5th Bombardment Group (Heavy),
which has been operating from Guadalcanal Island with B-17's since Oct 42,
ceases combat operations and regroups at it's base on Espiritu Santo Island
in the New Hebrides Islands. The squadron will transition to B-24D's and
re-enter combat in Oct 43.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-24's attack Larat, shipping at Semboh, and barges at
Kokas.
  The 431st Fighter Squadron, 475th Fighter Group, based at Amberley Field,
25 miles (40 km) W of Brisbane, Queensland, Australia begins operating from
Port Moresby, New Guinea with P-38's. The squadron will fly it's first
mission on Thursday.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop      |  Those who have long enjoyed such privileges |
|  Bellcore           |  as we enjoy forget in time that men have    |
|  Piscataway, NJ     |  died to win them.     FDR                   |
|  USA                |  [email-masked]                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Aug 1993 16:00:58 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NAV: A question about frigates (modern)

This is an area in which I have some small expertisse :-).

To keep it on charter, I'll compare the procdedures for "getting under
way" for 1943 and 1993.  (Gas turbine types will correct me if I'm
way wrong on any points?)

1943-A frigate's engineers ("Black Gang", a hold over from coal fired days)
     would arrive at the ship at least 8 hours in advance (if they ever
     left it) and light the fires under the boilers.  They would have to
     carefully heat several thousand gallons of water and tons of steel
     to operating temperatures.  Emergencies would cause them to take
     dangerous shortcuts but 4 hours would generally be minimum time.

     With the equipment on hand they could produce 25 knots if everything
     worked well.

     To stop the ship in an emergency, a "crash-back", or emergency backing
     manuever would involve closing the ahead throttle, and opening the
     astern throttle to first slow, then stop, the ahead turbines and start
     the astern turbines turning, being careful not to do this so fast that
     you destroyed a ton or more of finely machined turbines and reduction
     gears. Ideally this could be done in under a minute, if the ship wasn't
     going too fast.

     Picture the above procedure taking place while the captain is screaming
     into the intercom that a carrier has just cut across your bow to avoid
     a kamikaze :-(.

1993-The frigate's engineers, now almost jet engine mechanics (the turbines
     on the new FFG's are barely removed from fighter engines) arrive early
     enough to make sure that everything is in it's proper place.  In an
     emergency, the topside crew had better move VERY fast to remove the
     mooring lines if the engineers announce they're ready to go.  (You'll
     hear various estimates of times to go from "cold iron" to "under way"
     but I've  SEEN a FFG move in under 10 minutes, with a very unhappy
     crew.)

     The speed of the ship is controled by a panel on the bridge and the
     force of the engines is transmitted by a "variable pitch" propellor,
     a "screw" in Navy parlance, which turns at a constant velocity and
     has it's "bite" changed to produce more speed.  With this system you
     can go from "full ahead" to "emergency back" by turning a knob.  This
     would give the impression to a "old timer" that the ships can "stop
     on a dime" but several thousand tons of ship just don't DO that :-).
     Various tricks, including hard left or right rudder will further
     reduce stopping distance by slamming the ship broadside to its original
     direction.

Just my pre-budget $0.02 worth,

Larry J

'

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Aug 1993 18:40:11 -0230
From:    NAME <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Shipping losses

I can't help you out with merchant shipping losses, but there is
a recent book that addresses the question of warship losses.
David Brown's _Warship Losses of World War II_ was published in
1990 by Arms & Armour Press of London, England (16.95 pounds
sterling; ISBN 0-85368-802-8). According to a review, Brown "has
compiled the most complete and detailed record of the more than
1600 warships and vessels lost during World War II. It is the
first single-volume reference to offer such information. The book
includes a mass of appendices, indexes of principal battles and
actions, ship names and most importantly a commentary which
allows the reader to track the vast war at sea from 1939 to
1945." The book includes a "statistical analysis [which] outlines
warship losses by ship type, area, country, cause (e.g. air
attack, submarine torpedo), and by year."

I have no idea whether the desired information on shipping losses
is included, but you might check out John Terraine's _Business in
Great Waters: The U-boat Wars, 1916-1945_ (London: Leo Cooper,
1991; 19.50 pounds sterling; ISBN 0-85052-7600). Unfortunately,
this book only examines the struggle with Germany. Two other
books with a similar focus are Jak Showell's _U-Boat Command:
Battle of the Atlantic_ (London: Conway Maritime Press, 1989 [I
believe Naval Institute Press released this in the US], 1989) and
V.E. Tarrant's _The U-Boat Offensive, 1914-1945_ (Annapolis,
Naval Institute Press, 1989; ISBN 0-87021-764-X). Jurgen Rohwer's
_Axis Submarine Successes, 1939-1945_ (Naval Institute Press,
1983) claims to provide complete statistics of every Axis
submarine success in World War II.

You didn't indicate whether you were interested in losses on the
"other" side. A new book by Mark P. Parillo, _The Japanese
Merchant Marine in World War II_ (Annapolis, Naval Institute
Press, 1993; $28.95, ISBN 1-55750-677-9) is an exceptionally
detailed and exhaustive study of its subject.

Actually, the more I wander on, the more I can appreciate the
challenge posed by your question. I can't really think of any
single-volume reference that would provide the kind of month-by-
month summary of shipping losses that you seek. Maybe some of the
titles I've suggested can help, but it may well be that what you
want has not yet been assembled.

Olaf

Olaf Janzen                      Tel: (709) 637-6282
Department of History            FAX: (709) 639-8125
Sir Wilfred Grenfell College     e-mail: [email-masked]
Corner Brook, Newfoundland
Canada
A2H 6P9

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 5 Aug 1993 to 6 Aug 1993
***********************************************