Subject: WWII-L Digest - 11 Aug 1993 to 12 Aug 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1993 00:00:28 -0400

There are 14 messages totalling 607 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. USAAF 12 AUG 43 (2)
  2. Mt. Comfort airshow particulars (fwd) (2)
  3. NAV: A question about frigates (modern) (2)
  4. USAAF 28 JUL 43 (2)
  5. Msg to Silvio (Brazil) ~# #
  6. meeting Tibbets (2)
  7. MISC:Patton Museum, Aberdeen Museum
  8. INF: Shipyard stats.
  9. Luftwaffe victims

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 07:12:06 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 12 AUG 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCE
THURSDAY, 12 AUGUST 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-24, Douglas Dauntless
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  F4U, Vought Corsair (USN)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force)
    In the Aleutians Islands, B-24's and B-25's fly 26 bombing, strafing,
and radar and photo reconnaissance sorties over Kiska Island targets from
Adak Island. From Amchitka Island P-40's, P-38's, B-24's, B-25's, and
A-24's fly 70 bombing sorties over the island and are joined by B-24's,
P-40's, and F-5A's flying 6 reconnaissance and photo sorties. Targets
include the runway, harbor and shipping installations, army barracks, and
the Rose Hill area.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
    VIII Bomber Command Mission 81: The Ruhr is targetted with the bombers
concentrating on manufacturing installations and synthetic oil.
    1. 183 B-17's are dispatched to synthetic oil installations at Bochum,
Gelsenkirchen and Recklinghausen; some B-17's become separated on the bomb
run and bomb various targets of opportunity; 133 B-17's hit the targets at
0845-0925 hours; they claim 25-5-11 Luftwaffe aircraft; 23 B-17's are lost,
2 are damaged beyond repair and 103 are damaged; casualties are 5 KIA, 49
WIA and 232 MIA.
    2. 147 B-17's are dispatched to manufacturing installations at Bonn;
110 hit the target at 0850-0858 hours; they claim 4-2-2 Luftwaffe aircraft;
2 B-17's are lost, 1 is damaged beyond repair and 69 are damaged; casual-
ties are 1 KIA, 7 WIA and 21 MIA.
    VIII Air Support Command Missions 17 and 18: 71 B-26's are dispatched
to the Poix/Nord Airfield in France; 34 hit the target at 1052 hours; 13
aircraft are damaged.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force)
    In Sicily, 79 B-25's attack Falcone, Patti, Novara di Sicilia, and
Barcellona; P-40's bomb and strafe shipping at Messina.

  WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force)
    In Italy, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) B-25's attack
landing grounds at Crotone, and B-26's hit Grazzanise Airfield; they claim
9 fighters shot down. In Sicily, Northwest African Tactical Air Force
(NATAF) P-40's and A-36's hit shipping along the NE coast and in the
Straits of Messina, attack gun positions and  vehicles at Capo Calava and E
of Randazzo, and hit a bridge at Taormina and roads in the Maletto-Fiumefr-
eddo areas; NATAF bombers attack Patti, Falcone, Barcellona, and Nunziata.
    On the ground in Sicily, the US Seventh Army continues to pursue the
enemy E along the N coast. Further inland, US forces gain a favorable posi-
tion from which to assault Randazzo, but the enemy withdraws during the
night of 12/13 Aug, precluding an attack. The British Eighth Army seizes
Maletto and Riposto.
    The 85th and 97th Bombardment Squadrons (Light), 47th Bombardment Group
(Light), transfer from Malta to Torrente Comunelli, Sicily with A-20's.
    The 340th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 97th Bombardment Group (Heavy),
transfers from Chateaudun-du-Rhumel, Algeria to Pont-du-Fahs, Tunisia with
B-17's.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force)
  In the Solomon Islands, 20+ B-24's, with P-40 and F4U cover, bomb Kahili
Airfield on Bougainville Island, causing considerable damage in the dis-
persal and runway areas. The Allied airplanes claim 11 Zekes shot down; 1
P-40 and 1 F4U are lost.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force)
  In New Guinea, B-25's hit the Bogadjim-Yaula road. In the Bismarck
Archipelago, A-20's bomb and strafe Gasmata Island and nearby barges; and a
B-24 hits Cape Gloucester Airfield on New Britain Island.
  The 432d Fighter Squadron, 475th Fighter Group, based at Amberley Field
near Brisbane, Queensland, Australia begins operating from Port Moresby,
New Guinea with P-38's. The squadron will fly it's first combat mission on
Friday.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 06:47:15 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Mt. Comfort airshow particulars (fwd)

I thought I'd share this with the list, sorry if it's out of your range.
As a general rule, we can post information about items of regional interest
to the list since no one knows who will be where when and this type of
thing might "make someone's weekend" :-).

Robert, I still don't have contact info, but I'll try contacting the
airport directly today.

Larry J

Forwarded message:
>
> Larry and Kim,
>
> According to the clipping (from the 1 August edition of the
> *Indianapolis Star*) that my friend Steve sent me, here are
> some of the performers expected to appear at the Mt. Comfort
> airshow:
>
>
> The Stars and Stripes civilian aerobatics team from Pennsylvania
>
> Clint McHenry, three-time US national aerobatics champion from
> Florida, flying a Russian-built Sukhoi Su-26M
>
> Bob and Pat Wagner of Troy, Ohio, a wing-walking act
>
> Bill Leff from Bloomington, Illinois, flying an aerobatic routine
> with a T-6 Texan trainer
>
> Steve Powell of Memphis, Tennessee, flying a sailplane
>
> Dan McCue of New York, flying a Russian Yak-11
>
> The Franfort skydiving exhibition team
>
> Venom jets piloted by Dave Vanliere and Ron Iberg
>
> PV-2 Harpoon "Hot Stuff"
>
> B-17 (no mention as to version or owner)
>
> B-25 Mitchells (plural)
>
> P-51 Mustangs (plural)
>
> P-47 Thunderbolt
>
> F4U Corsair
>
> C-69 Constellation  (This I gotta see; the C-69 was the original
> version of the Connie.  I hope they got this right.)
>
> A-10 Warthog
>
> F-117 Stealth
>
> plus other current military aircraft, subject to availability
>
>
> Did I mention that there is another airshow the following weekend
> at the Clark County, Indiana airport, just across the Ohio river
> from Louisville?  About 20 P-51s are scheduled, with one flown by
> Chuck Yeager.  About 75-100 mostly WWII-vintage aircraft are
> expected.
>
> Dennis E. Sparks
> [email-masked]
> Lexington, Kentucky

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 09:07:22 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Mt. Comfort airshow particulars (fwd)

> I thought I'd share this with the list, sorry if it's out of your range.
> As a general rule, we can post information about items of regional interest
> to the list since no one knows who will be where when and this type of
> thing might "make someone's weekend" :-).

And it's WWII related.  :-)

> Robert, I still don't have contact info, but I'll try contacting the
> airport directly today.

We've already been in contact with the airshow organizers and faxed a
proposal.  Because of the late date, it's unlikely Miss Mitchell will
be able to attend, but it wasn't eliminated as a possibility.

> > According to the clipping (from the 1 August edition of the
> > *Indianapolis Star*) that my friend Steve sent me, here are
> > some of the performers expected to appear at the Mt. Comfort
> > airshow:
> >
> > PV-2 Harpoon "Hot Stuff"

This was just at our show.  I never got a chance to take a close look
at it, but it's definitely a unique aircraft.  Got some very nice pictures
of it, though.  Pretty.

> > B-17 (no mention as to version or owner)

Fuddy Duddy from National Warplane (Geneseo).

> > B-25 Mitchells (plural)

Panchito from National Warplane and another one, privately owned.  A nice
selection of B-25s, at least, with Panchito being a very nicely restored
aircraft (though I want to park Miss Mitchell next to it and compare :-)
and the other one which is, as I've heard, very complete in the "bells
and whistles" category (has oodles of original components installed, but
no word on the overall restoration).

> > P-51 Mustangs (plural)

Always.  :-)

> > C-69 Constellation  (This I gotta see; the C-69 was the original
> > version of the Connie.  I hope they got this right.)

Even if they didn't, a Connie all by itself is well worth the trip.  An
amazing airplane.  Especially when it's flying in tight formation with a
B-24 at 50 feet above the runway at high speed.  Incredible.

I never knew the Connie when it was in service.  Hoping I can arrange a
ride onboard one someday, because I'm convinced it's still one of the most
graceful, probably most comfortable, airliners (in airliner configuration)
ever flown.

> > A-10 Warthog
> > F-117 Stealth

Bah.  Jets.  :-)

I'm told this show begins on Friday the 27th with a $5.00 ticket.  This
begins with an 8:00 p.m. (yes) flight schedules and a 9:00 hangar
dance.  The weekend costs $6.00 per day for adult/$3.00 for kids and is
open 8:00 a.m. to something later.  Flying is from noon until 4:00.

Sounds like fun.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force
  You know you've made a gear-up landing when it takes full power to taxi.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 10:47:54 EST
From:    Mike Long <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NAV: A question about frigates (modern)

Glenn,

My wife's grandfather worked at the Bath Iron Works during WWII. He was a
welder and worked on assembling sections of Liberty Ships. He passed away
recently so I can't get any details of what ships he did work on. From the
discussions we did have about it, he said it was a very dangerous place to
work and he lost several friends to accidents etc. He also indicated it was
a very exciting and dynamic place to be. I'll talk to Grandmom and see if I
can get any more info.

Mike
MLONG@UCONNVM

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 11:49:35 -0700
From:    Julian E Gomez <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF 28 JUL 43

>>>   STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
>>>     VIII Bomber Command Mission Number 78: The aviation industry in
>>> Germany is targetted but bad weather hampers the raids. The targets ar e:
>>>       1. 182 B-17's are dispatched against the Fieseler Works at Kasse l,
>>> Germany; 58 hit the target at 1027-1054 hours; they claim 27-15-22
>>> Luftwaffe aircraft; 7 B-17's are lost, 4 are damaged beyond repair and 54
>>> damaged; casualties are 15 WIA and 71 MIA.
>>
>>What happens to the aircraft that are dispatched but aren't listed as
>>hitting the target? For example, in this raid only a third of the
>>dispatched bombers hit the target; what happened to the rest?
>
>There are always a certain percentage of aircraft that abort the
>mission due to mechanical trouble.  The second problem was weather.
>These aircraft did not have the electronic whizzbangs that would be
>introduced in the Fall of 1943.  If the target was in an occupied
>country, e.g., The Netherlands, there were rules prohibiting the
>indiscriminate dropping of bombs.  I am not sure what the rules
>were for Germany but if the target was overcast, the normal
>procedure was to hit the secondary target and/or targets of
>opportunity.  If they were socked in, you dropped your bombs in the
>water and headed back home.

Given that the weather was bad that mission, and that bombing raids
were flown in formation, how come some of the aircraft found the target
but most didn't?  It's hard to believe 124 out of 182 aircraft would
have to abort because of mechanical problems.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 14:32:47 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF 28 JUL 43

> >>>   STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force)
> >>>     VIII Bomber Command Mission Number 78: The aviation industry in
> >>> Germany is targetted but bad weather hampers the raids. The targets ar e:
> >>>       1. 182 B-17's are dispatched against the Fieseler Works at Kasse l,
> >>> Germany; 58 hit the target at 1027-1054 hours; they claim 27-15-22
> >>> Luftwaffe aircraft; 7 B-17's are lost, 4 are damaged beyond repair and 54
> >>> damaged; casualties are 15 WIA and 71 MIA.
> >>
> >>What happens to the aircraft that are dispatched but aren't listed as
> >>hitting the target? For example, in this raid only a third of the
> >>dispatched bombers hit the target; what happened to the rest?
> >
> >There are always a certain percentage of aircraft that abort the
> >mission due to mechanical trouble.  The second problem was weather.
> >These aircraft did not have the electronic whizzbangs that would be
> >introduced in the Fall of 1943.  If the target was in an occupied
> >country, e.g., The Netherlands, there were rules prohibiting the
> >indiscriminate dropping of bombs.  I am not sure what the rules
> >were for Germany but if the target was overcast, the normal
> >procedure was to hit the secondary target and/or targets of
> >opportunity.  If they were socked in, you dropped your bombs in the
> >water and headed back home.
>
> Given that the weather was bad that mission, and that bombing raids
> were flown in formation, how come some of the aircraft found the target
> but most didn't?  It's hard to believe 124 out of 182 aircraft would
> have to abort because of mechanical problems.

Missions are rarely sent out en-masse.  Smaller numbers of aircraft are
dispatched with the next flight following later on.  Flights also depart
from many different airfields and take many different routes to target.
Weather can improve or get worse as the day goes on and weather can be
wildly different from different departure points.

What might be manageable for one flight could be completely different
for another.

If weather was bad, what the above suggests is that it was a bad day all
around for a mission, but some of the flights had weather marginal enough
to make the target.  In other words, it was bad odds for them all and
some made it through rather than good odds for all but most failed.

This reduces risk, increases chances of reaching the target and continually
disrupts recovery operations on the ground (the best way to keep fires
burning is keep the fire fighters under cover).  It also exhausts the
fighters who have limited time aloft with ammunition -- The more they
have the climb, fight, decend, land and rearm, the more likely you are
to disrupt them and catch them at a time convenient for you.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force
  You know you've made a gear-up landing when it takes full power to taxi.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 17:47:40 BRA
From:    "Silvio E.G. Melo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Msg to Silvio (Brazil) ~# #

     Carlos
     Desculpe se pensei se tratar de sua esposa Helena, eu nao entendi direito
que era esse o caso, tamanha a surpresa de encontrar um brasileiro "por ai" in-
teressado no assunto. Caso prefira podemos nos comunicar diretamente, sem ter
que passar pelo wwii-l ( envie diretamente para [email-masked]). Peco que
confirme novamente a conta que voce prefere que eu use para falar com voce.
     Sobre o que voce perguntou, uma coincidencia. Estou ajudando um amigo na
editoracao de um livro sobre este assunto. Foram ou nao os alemaes que torpedea
ram os nossos navios? A resposta como voce mesmo ja deu e sim. Pessoalmente eu
desconheco o fato da existencia de avioes espioes alemaes no continente america
no, porem e possivel que tais avioes fossem utilizados a partir das "vacas leit
eiras", algumas unidades foram construidas com um pequeno hangar, onde o aviao
ia desmontado e so era montado quando fosse necessario. Nao sei se alguma unida
de desse tipo teria sido utilizada na pratica e muito menos por aqui. Vou consu
ltar o meu amigo (Reinaldo) sobre o assunto, pois o especialista na area e ele.
     Sei que no momento nao e muito, mas em breve te dou uma resposta mais conc
lusiva. Espero que este novo contato seja proveitoso. Fico muito feliz por pode
r ajudar alguem, pois apesar de participar desta lista a quase dois anos, ate a
gora era apenas um mero ouvinte, sem muito o que dizer e com muito para ouvir.
                                       Silvio

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 18:06:59 -0400
From:    "M. Joseph Barone" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF 12 AUG 43

>     1. 183 B-17's are dispatched to synthetic oil installations at Bochum,
> Gelsenkirchen and Recklinghausen; some B-17's become separated on the bomb
> run and bomb various targets of opportunity; 133 B-17's hit the targets at
> 0845-0925 hours; they claim 25-5-11 Luftwaffe aircraft; 23 B-17's are lost,
> 2 are damaged beyond repair and 103 are damaged; casualties are 5 KIA, 49
> WIA and 232 MIA.

        I thought the crew for a B-17 was 10 men.  If true, where did the
2 extra MIAs come from.  I've noticed many of the reported MIAs don't
total the crew compliments for the lost planes.  Are these MIAs from
other damaged planes (such as ball-turret gunners) or did B-17s carry
extra personnel at times?

        Anyway, 23 lost B-17s is a staggering amount of men and machines!
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
That's BigbooTAY!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 18:32:49 -0400
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <[email-masked]>
Subject: meeting Tibbets

WARNING:  Name-dropping about to commence.  Please stand by...

I had the opportunity to meet and talk with Paul Tibbets last
Friday.  Tibbets' name may or may not ring a bell with some
of you, but it's likely most of you have heard of his airplane.
He flew a B-29 named "Enola Gay", which dropped the atomic
bomb on Hiroshima.  (Coincidently, last Friday was the 48th
anniversary of the date of the Hiroshima mission.)

He was in Lexington, Kentucky to address a banquet/meeting of
the local aviation history group.  I was asked (with less than
a month's notice) to build a model of the "Enola Gay" for
display and as my reward was permitted to hang around and talk to
him more than the average attendee.  (Also, my model made the
local TV nightly news; I managed to stay out of the picture.)

One of the questions I asked him before his talk was, "Will you
be discussing the second atomic bomb mission?"  He replied that
he didn't intend to mention it.

I persisted, asking him why not.  His reply was, "Those guys
f**ked up.  They didn't do what I told them to do.  If they had
done what I told them to do, everything would have gone all right."

Since I had just read several accounts of the two missions, I
was curious as to who he blamed for the mistakes, what he thought
they could have done differently, etc.  I asked him if would
elaborate and his reply was "No."  End of discussion.

(I read Tibbets autobiography, variously titled "The Tibbets Story"
and "Flight of the Enola Gay"; the book "Enola Gay", by Thomas
and Witts; "Hiroshima Diary", written by a doctor who survived
the bomb; "Superfortress", by Gen. Curtis LeMay; "The Night Tokyo
Burned", an account of the fire-bombing raids on Japan; and William
Craig's "The Fall of Japan".  In my opinion, the last one contains
the best account of the Nagasaki mission.  I recommend it to your
attention.)

We now return control of your screen....

Dennis E. Sparks
[email-masked]
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 20:37:00 EST
From:    Han Solo <[email-masked]>
Subject: MISC:Patton Museum, Aberdeen Museum

        Can someone please tell me where the George S. Patton Jr Museum is?
I don't even know if it is in this country.  I was also wondering if someone
could tell me a little about the Aberdeen proving grounds and Ordinance
Museum.

                                                        Thank you

Donald J. Rumignani
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 21:48:57 +0100
From:    Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NAV: A question about frigates (modern)

> About the modern frigates:
>   After I posted the original message, I got to see a post card from the
>   Bath Iron Works. They are on the coast in Maine, sorry for the location
>   error. They are noted for having one of the largest cranes on the
>   east coast. As for the speed of the frigates and their stopping distances
>   I think everyone aggrees that there has been some exaggeration here, to
>   phrase it kindly. However the discussion on how to stop frigates fast
>   has been interesting. I think my question about this has been answered.
>   Its probably about time to discontinue the off-list subject matter.
>
>   To continue on topic:
>    I assume the Batch Iron Works has been in business for a while. Does
>    anyone know if they were around in WWII and if so, did they work on
>    any Navy ships then. I assume there is some way to trace who built
>    what. You always hear statistics about various fighting groups and
>    their records (ie. Divisions, bomber and fighter groups). Did anyone
>    keep records about production by manufacturer, I've seen this for
>    aircraft production. What about ship production?
>
> Glenn Millard
> Academic Support
> Stephen F. Austin State University
> Internet: [email-masked]

Bath Iron works was one of the leading builders of Destroyer type ships almost
since the type was created. Quickly using the tables in Destroyers A design
History by Friedman DD 20 USS Flusser laid down 3 Aug 1908 was 'Bath Built'
I also see in there that they built 'Torpedo Boats' before that.

Like any old line yard they had a reputation for quality.  I am pretty sure
they are now controlled by someone else but they try and keep the Bath
Ironworks name in the press ( I have seen ads in USNI Proceedings, but can't
lay my hands on one right now)

As far as records by builder, there are plenty. I know I settled several
dsicussions about Aircraft carriers when I was stationed at Langley AFB by
calling Newport News Shipbuilding and asking the PR department. They never took
more than 5 minutes to come back with any spec on any ship they built
(usually tonnage, launch or commisioning date, etc) PR departments are great
places. I got several poster size pictures of Nimitz, Eisenhower, and a couple
subs too.

Bob Smart ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 20:56:09 CDT
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: meeting Tibbets

WAIT a minute, Dennis!  Do YOU understand what Tibbets (may have) meant
  when he said the Nagasaki crew fouled up?  (This is the first I've heard
  about a foul-up.)

Thanks for any info.

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 21:11:08 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: Shipyard stats.

For a "do-it-yourself" overview of shipyard production, check out

REGISTER OF SHIPS OF THE U.S. NAVY, 1775-1990, Major Combatants,
by K. Jack Bauer and Stephen S. Roberts, Greenwood Press, 1991.

Every combatant as large as a sloop or gunboat (PG) is listed with
the shipyard where it was built. It has specs. (as built and major
modification) as well as disposition at end of service (speaking of
which, anyone know the names of the U.S. battleships sunk by the
Luftwaffe [yes, this is a trick question ;-]).

This book weighs in at a hefty $75.00, but everyone who's seen it
agrees it's a real marvel.  The unofficial estimate from the Naval
History Center is "very reliable".

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 12 Aug 1993 21:15:33 CDT
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: Luftwaffe victims

I could look them up, but they were the old U.S. predreadnoughts in the
  Greek Navy.  (Do I win?  WHAT do I win?)

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 11 Aug 1993 to 12 Aug 1993
*************************************************