Subject: WWII-L Digest - 4 Oct 1993 to 5 Oct 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 00:00:38 -0400

There are 22 messages totalling 801 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore (12)
  2. USAAF 5 OCT 43
  3. ADMIN: Patience, please.
  4. Lady Be Good... was WW2 Legends/Folklore
  5. Addr: James Jones
  6. Experimental Power Plant
  7. GEN: Frank Wisner and OSS
  8. GEN: Off to Midland, TX.
  9. REPORT:  Gen. Doolittle's Funeral
 10. Doolittle Raid
 11. REF: Volume 14 of the series _Militaerfahrzeuge_

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 4 Oct 1993 23:33:04 EST
From:    Denis <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

Coffee in the thermoses that was still hot and drinkable

Maybe someone should find out what brand of thermos it was and tell the
company - it might make a better ad campagn then the Timex "keeps a licking
and on ticking".

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 07:25:00 -0400
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 5 OCT 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 5 OCTOBER 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-51, North American Mustang
  Zeke, Mitsubishi A6M, Navy Type 0 Carrier Fighter

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  CARIBBEAN (Sixth Air Force: HQ 25th Bombardment Group (Medium) transfers
from Ft. Amsterdam, Curacao to Borinquen Field, Puerto Rico.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, a few B-25's and P-40's attack a
foundry at Shihhweiyao; damaging hits are scored on a barrack, on AA
positions, blast furnaces, hoppers, and a steam plant. 10 USAAF fighters
intercept a force of about 50 Zekes W of Kweilin, shoot down 1 enemy
fighter; the enemy force turns back.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): HQ 356th Fighter Group
transfers from Goxhill to Martlesham, England.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): Lieutenant General
James H Doolittle assumes command of the Twelfth Air Force during the
absence of General Carl Spaatz. In Italy, XII Bomber Command B-17's hit the
Bologna marshalling yard; B-25's and B-26's bomb the Formia road, a road
loop N of Mignano, and Isernia chokepoint; Northwest African Tactical
Bomber Force (NATBF), XII Air Support Command, and Royal Air Force (RAF)
Desert Air Force (DAF) aircraft bomb numerous targets in and N of the battle
area, including heavy traffic in the Isernia area, gasoline dumps at
Alfedena, trains at Termoli, and towns of Venafro and Isolella.
  The 15th Troop Carrier Squadron, 61st Troop Carrier Group, transfers from
Licata to Sciacca, Sicily with C-47's.
  The 27th and 71st Fighter Squadrons, 1st Fighter Group, based at Mateur,
Tunisia send detachments to Gambut, Libya with P-38's.
  The 85th and 86th Fighter Squadrons, 79th Fighter Group, transfer from
Crotone to Salsola, Italy with P-40's.
  The 111th Reconnaissance Squadron (Fighter), 68th Reconnaissance Group,
transfers from Sele to Pomigliano, Italy with P-51's. A detachment of the
squadron is operating from Capaccio, Italy.
  The 526th Fighter-Bomber Squadron, 86th Fighter-Bomber Group, transfers
from Sele Airfield to Seretella Airfield, Italy with A-36's.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea,
B-25's carry out a coastal sweep W to Madang, bombing and strafing villages
and barges; B-17's hit the Bogadjim Road and jetties at Erima; and B-24's
bomb the Babo area.
  HQ 35th Fighter Group transfers from Tsili Tsili to Nadzab, New Guinea.
  The 33d Troop Carrier Squadron, 374th Troop Carrier Group, transfers from
Port Moresby, New Guinea to Garbutt Field, Townsville, Queensland Australia
with C-47's.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
 Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 06:56:09 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Patience, please.

Dear Larry,

Sorry to hear about your illness. We all wish you the speediest of
recoveries.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 08:04:00 EST
From:    "W. C. (RUSTY) DIVENS" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

>Coffee in the thermoses that was still hot and drinkable

>Maybe someone should find out what brand of thermos it was and tell the
>company - it might make a better ad campagn then the Timex "keeps a licking
>and on ticking".

Well, when you consider that this was in the middle of the Libyan desert,
it isn't so remarkable at all.  There should be no problem keeping coffee
'hot'.

Bill

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 07:22:55 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

Rusty,

Touche. (tooshay)!

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 08:15:37 EST
From:    Mike Long <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

On Tue, 5 Oct 1993 01:32:59 +0100 Emmanuel Gustin said:
>> They found coffee in thermoses that was still hot and drinkable and
>                                          _________
>
>
>> and it led the team right to them - just 20 years too late.  The main
>
>
>Slightly exaggerated?
>
>Emmanuel.

Still hot yes, but this WAS in the desert! I imagine everything was kinda HOT.

Mike Long
MLONG@UCONNVM

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 09:05:15 -0400
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Lady Be Good... was WW2 Legends/Folklore

Additional stories about the B-24 "Lady Be Good"....

The Lady's bad luck persisted.  A C-47 carried investigators to
the crash site, landing nearby.  When the Gooney bird developed
radio problems, the radio was removed from the B-24 and installed
on the C-47.  The C-47 later crashed.

An armrest from the pilot's seat of the "Lady Be Good" was installed
on another aircraft (a deHavilland Beaver?) sent to the crash site.
That aircraft later crashed into the sea.  One of the pieces of
debris recovered floating on the surface...the armrest.

Pieces from the "Lady Be Good" were returned to the US for study.
One of the engines was discovered to have a 20 mm cannon shell
imbedded in it.  The engine and other pieces are now on display
at the museum at Wright Patterson AFB, Ohio.

On another (sorry Larry, not WWII) subject...

There is a similar "ghost story" about the loss of the space shuttle
"Challenger".  A portion of a wing rib from an Australian aviation
pioneer's wrecked aircraft was presented to one of the "Challenger"'s
crew, who agreed to carry it into space and then return it.  I'm sorry
to say I cannot recall the name/circumstances of either the Australian
or which shuttle crewmember.  When the shuttle exploded, the wing rib
was recovered floating on the water.

Dennis E. Sparks
[email-masked]
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 14:19:12 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

> Well, when you consider that this was in the middle of the Libyan desert,
> it isn't so remarkable at all.  There should be no problem keeping coffee
> 'hot'.

A well-isolated thermos bottle should have a much slower time evolution
than the outside air, i.e. the temperature at the inside of the bottle
should be a time-average of the outside temperature. And deserts
tend to be very cold at night... :-)

Emmanuel

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 08:51:16 -0500
From:    WILLIAM HUBER - SCDR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

In your message of  4 Oct 1993 at 2111 CDT, you write:
> > They found coffee in thermoses that was still hot and drinkable and
>                                           _________
>
> > and it led the team right to them - just 20 years too late.  The main
>
>
> Slightly exaggerated?
>
> Emmanuel.

As I said in last Friday's card game - "Read em and weep".  Read _Lady
Be Good_ and see for yourself.  Comes under the heading of fact being
stranger than fiction.  Truly an amazing story of bad luck and
determination.

The crew also recorded in their survival diary having run across an
Arab and 4 or 5 camels that they suspect had died about 150 years
prior to their coming across them.  It didn't give them a warm fuzzy
feeling if you know what I mean....

I can't recommend the book highly enough.    ciao, Bill Huber

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 09:51:23 EDT
From:    "William B. Thacker" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

> On Tue, 5 Oct 1993 01:32:59 +0100 Emmanuel Gustin said:
> >> They found coffee in thermoses that was still hot and drinkable
> >
> >Slightly exaggerated?
>
> Still hot yes, but this WAS in the desert! I imagine everything was kinda HOT.

>From what I've heard about Army coffee, the amazing part is that it was
*drinkable*.  8-)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker             AT&T Network Systems       attmail!att!cbemf!wbt
(614) 860-5294           Columbus, Ohio              [email-masked]
                      Humpty Dumpty was pushed!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 09:56:27 -0500
From:    WILLIAM HUBER - SCDR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

In your message of  5 Oct 1993 at 0911 CDT, you write:

> A well-isolated thermos bottle should have a much slower time evolution
> than the outside air, i.e. the temperature at the inside of the bottle
> should be a time-average of the outside temperature. And deserts
> tend to be very cold at night... :-)
>
> Emmanuel

Musta been a heck of a thermos!  Just repeating what the book said.
I was not there so I have to rely on the word of the investigative
team but thats what they said.

If the seal was tight enough to maintain a complete vaccuum then (in
theory) it will keep the coffee hot forever.

Yea, I had forgotten about the C-47 with the swapped radio and the
arm rest.  Good points.

Bill Huber
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 10:36:34 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

Dear Bill,

I wasn't aware that a book had been published on that B-24. Is it
still in print, and how can I order it?

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 10:55:35 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

Date sent:      Sat, 25 Sep 1993 15:52:59 -0400
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

> > What I was wondering - is there a good count of how many American
> > built planes produced during the war are still around - including
> > those flying and those just on display.  Where there any planes produced
> > in significant numbers of which not a single one survives today?
>
> There is a count, but it's hard to be 100% accurate.  There are, for
> example, 7 B-17's flying, but how many still exist total can vary,
> since not all were registered.  Also, do you count those noted as
> "lost" that may be recoverable?
>
> As far as non-existent aircraft, there are many, though some can be
> argued as to "not count" (I wouldn't :-).  Some small number examples
> were built of prototype aircraft (like the B-19), which were later
> scrapped.  That's not really a surprise, though.  The Brewster Buffalo
> doesn't exist anymore, sorta, unless you go to Finland or the bottom
> of Lake Michigan.
>
> The dangerously close to exinction list is much larger on Axis aircraft,
> though.  There are MANY Italian, German and Japanese aircraft which
> simply do not exist anymore (unless someone, someday, stumbles across
> a wreck that might be worthy of restoration...)

Are there any flyable SB2C Helldivers? This strikes me as a case where noone
would have thought about keeping one around. There were probably hundreds of
them in very good to excellent condition in 1945 but theNavy abandoned them
quickly after the war ( Unlike the TBF/TBM which became a very well used hack
or testbed) Same goes for the B-26 Marauder, They even stole the designator for
it and gave it to the A-26.

I read a few years ago that there were no flyable P-39s and only a couple P-63s
around.

Bob Smart ([email-masked])

Bob,

I might be able to add one thing to your statement. I have recently
read that there are 3 P-61 "Black Widow" aircraft still in existence,
with one on a static display in China. I will have to re-consult my
reference work on that, but I am certain of the example in China. I
will find out exactly where it is.

The P-61 was, to my mind, a very remarkable aircraft that has not had
its share of publicity nor honor. It is only recently, that I have
seen anything in print on it.

I did, however, have the top-scoring night-fighter ace of WWII visit
me last year who told me a lot about it.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 11:35:55 EDT
From:    RICHARD KING <[email-masked]>
Subject: Addr: James Jones

Anyone interested in this great writer and World War II chronicler
should consider attending the annual James Jones Society Conference,
or at least supporting this fledging society. It is in Robinson, Ill.,
Jones's home town, and is a blend of scholars and friends of Jones.
Since I live only 45 miles from Robinson, sure, I can attend. Maybe
some of you midwesterners would like to make a road trip of it.
I am giving you all the program and the application form, in case
you are interested.
PROGRAM - THE JAMES JONES SOCIETY ANNUAL MEETING
Nov. 6, 1993 - Lincoln Trail College, Robinson, Ill.
 8:00   Registration
 9:00   Welcome by J. Michael Lennon, President
 9:10   Business Meeting
 9:30   THE ICE CREAM HEADACHE AND OTHER STORIES
          Panel discussion: Kaylie Jones, Helen Howe,
                            George Hendrick
10:30   Break
10:45   DETOUR INTO DARKNESS: JAMES JONES AS MYSTERY NOVELIST
          David and Judith Everson
11:45   Lunch
 1:00   Memories of James Jones and The Colony
          Panel discussion: Don Sackrider, Jamie Jones,
          Jon Shirota and Jones's former English teacher
 2:00   Break
 2:15   Willie Morris reading from JAMES JONES: A FRIENDSHIP
 3:30   Presentation: James Jones First Novel Fellowship Award
                      Kaylie Jones and Don Sackrider
 4:00   Reception: Cafeteria
 7:00   Dinner: Quail Creek Country Club (price: $15)

THE JAMES JONES SOCIETY MEMBERSHIP/DONATION FORM

Name_________________________________________________

Address______________________________________________

____I wish to become a 1993 member of The James Jones Society
and have enclosed a check for $10.

Make checks payable to the LTC Foundation/James Jones Society
and mail to: Juanita Martin, Treasurer, Lincoln Trail College,
R.R. 3 Box 82A, Robinson, IL 62454. Contributions to The Society
are tax deductible. This form may be duplicated for additional
memberships or gifts.

Note that the main speaker is Willie Morris. If you want more
information about Morris, read THE NEW YORK TIMES BOOK REVIEW,
Sept. 5, 1993 (page 1), or ESQUIRE, Sept. 1993, page 52. Pretty
good publicity for a speaker who will be in a small southern
Illinois town on Nov. 6.

As far as I know, Jones was the only major writer who was present
when Pearl Harbor was attacked, and has described this in FROM
HERE TO ETERNITY and other works. If anyone wants more information,
or wants to discuss Jones or other WWII novelists, let me know.

I attended the conference last year and it was outstanding.
Definitely NOT just a bunch of professors reading papers for
hours on end. I hope to see some people from this list there
and talk. Spread this information to anyone you think might be
interested.
Thanks for you indulgences in this posting.
*******************************************************************
[email-masked]
Richard L. King, Referencen Librarian, Vincennes (IN) University
"Old soldiers never die. They just write novels." --James Jones

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 12:28:12 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

> > On Tue, 5 Oct 1993 01:32:59 +0100 Emmanuel Gustin said:
> > >> They found coffee in thermoses that was still hot and drinkable
> > >
> > >Slightly exaggerated?
> >
> > Still hot yes, but this WAS in the desert! I imagine everything was kinda HOT.
>
> >From what I've heard about Army coffee, the amazing part is that it was
> *drinkable*.  8-)

Or EVER hot.  :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 12:42:32 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WW2 Urban Legends/Folklore

> Are there any flyable SB2C Helldivers? This strikes me as a case where noone

ONE.

> would have thought about keeping one around. There were probably hundreds of
> them in very good to excellent condition in 1945 but theNavy abandoned them
> quickly after the war ( Unlike the TBF/TBM which became a very well used hack
> or testbed) Same goes for the B-26 Marauder, They even stole the designator for
> it and gave it to the A-26.

The CAF an SB2C which is basically a million dollar rebuild.  I've seen
it and it's big, ugly, massive and beautiful.  :-)

> I read a few years ago that there were no flyable P-39s and only a couple P-63s
> around.

I believe there is at least one P-39 flying.  I haven't followed that
one too much.  I know of at least two P-63s with another on the way.

> Bob,
>
> I might be able to add one thing to your statement. I have recently
> read that there are 3 P-61 "Black Widow" aircraft still in existence,
> with one on a static display in China. I will have to re-consult my
> reference work on that, but I am certain of the example in China. I
> will find out exactly where it is.
>
> The P-61 was, to my mind, a very remarkable aircraft that has not had
> its share of publicity nor honor. It is only recently, that I have
> seen anything in print on it.
>
> I did, however, have the top-scoring night-fighter ace of WWII visit
> me last year who told me a lot about it.

This is an airplane that is very much in demand and very much
unavailable.  I know there is one in China, but I guess I wonder
about reports of others (Except for known permanent static displays).

If there really were a potentially flyable copy of this airplane
around, _someone_ would be working very hard on it.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 14:09:02 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Experimental Power Plant

This may not have much to do with WWII, but I am curious about
something I saw several months ago.

I would like to find out about an experimental power plant that uses
a liquid metal that is heated and circulated in a closed system to
make electricity. I saw a TV program several months ago in which is
unit had been built and was in operation. I don't know the name of
the university, but it was in Israel. Any info on construction and
materials would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Terry Moore

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 20:46:45 +0100
From:    Richard Cummings <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: Frank Wisner and OSS

Anyone know where I can get information on Frank Wisner and OSS.
I have been researching the early days of our radio stations,
and Frank Wisner was a dominant figure in the early days of
both Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty.  And I found
references to his assignment in Romania for OSS.

Has anyone ever written a biography of Frank Wisner?  Does anyone
know if his papers were ever deposited in a University Library
in the U.S.

Thanks to anyone for any information.  Richard in Munich where
information is hard to come by, sometimes.

--==oo00oo==--
[email-masked]
RFE/RL Inc
Munich,Germany

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 14:37:20 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: Off to Midland, TX.

If anyone gets to Midland for Airsho, make sure you drop by Miss Mitchell
and introduce yourself... (and part with your spare cash -- :-)

You'll have the opportunity to meet most of the people who flew to DC, get
some personal stories first hand as well as meet some of the original
crew members of Miss Mitchell who saw combat 50 years ago -- Some have
been reunited in the past, but not all.  This is going to be enjoyable.

... Outta here ... For some hellacious fun.  :-)

[I told Headquarters we'd settle for French Champagne upon arrival -- Who
wants to take the bet that we see aircraft polishing rags instead? :-)]

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 16:46:24 EST
From:    Chuck McCormick <[email-masked]>
Subject: REPORT:  Gen. Doolittle's Funeral

Here is my report of what happened at last Friday's funeral.  I wish I were a
better writer because this report doesn't fully capture the emotion or beauty of
Friday's events.  Thanks again to the Minnesota Wing, the Miss Mitchell's crew,
and the corporate donor for the B-25 flyover.

    Doolittle's Burial

I was fortunate enough to be able to attend Gen. Jimmy
Doolittle's burial at Arlington National Cemetery on
Friday, October 1, 1993.  I attended the ceremony
because I have read a lot about him and admired him and
was saddened by his passing.  Here is a brief report of
what I observed Friday.

First, I need to point out that I was not able to be as
close to the services as I would have liked.  The
funeral was held in the Ft. Meyer Chapel and closed to
the public.  The burial service was open to the public
according to information given to me by the National
Cemetery before hand.  Because of the large number of
dignitaries present, including the Secretary of Defense
and the Secretary of State, and the large number of
tourists in the area the road and walkways near the
burial site were closed to the public.  I was
approximately 100 yards from the grave but could still
see and hear much of what went on.

The Location

Gen. Doolittle is buried just below the Tomb of the
Unknowns near the graves of Joe Louis, Dick Scobee, and
(I think) Pappy Boyington.  It is in the area of the
cemetery which is most visited.  To get to the grave
one simply has to walk up hill on Roosevelt Avenue from
the Visitor's Center.  Watch for the row of pine trees
on the right.  The weather Friday was a perfect Fall
day.  The temperature was about 60 degrees and the sky
was as blue as it ever gets in Washington and nearly
cloudless.  I couldn't help feeling that one couldn't
pick a more beautiful day to be buried.

I watched the burial from near the wall that is north
east of the Honor Guard's walk at the Tomb of the
Unknowns.  I was at the cemetery very early and had
already staked out a position and waited for the
funeral party.

The On-Lookers

As noted above, the general public was kept some
distance from the grave site.  There were two good
reasons for this.  Many dignitaries attended the
ceremony including Les Aspin and Warren Christopher.
It was rumored that President Bush also attended; I did
not see him but I did see a black Lincoln with tinted
windows leave--that may have been his car.  I did see
both of the Secretaries.  The second reason for
excluding the general public was that there were a lot
of tourists there who weren't particular quiet or aware
of the importance of the man being buried and the
tourists were pretty loud and obnoxious as tourists are
wont to be (if you want specific examples of poor
tourist behavior email me).  Many of the tourists and
others who went as on-lookers weren't dressed properly
to attend a funeral either.  There were also some
squabbles between individuals who wanted to get closer
and the 'Air Security Police'.  Guess who won?

Some of the on-lookers had come from far away to be in
attendance.  There were also many veterans in the crowd
including men in VFW hats and jackets and many of them
sported medals.  One man in the crowd had flown in
B-25s during WWII.

The Burial Service

At about 3PM the funeral party arrived at the burial
site led by a large Air Force Honor Guard and the Air
Force Band.  The Air Force Band alternated playing
martial music and drumbeats.  One tune I specifically
heard was 'Anchors Away'.  General Doolittle's caisson
was drawn by six horses and at least some of the horses
had riders.  I did not know that this was standard
practice.

After a brief service the Honor Guard fired a 21 gun
salute.  I have never witnessed such a salute and it
was magnificent.

The Flyover

At exactly 3:30 PM the flyover began.  The first planes
to fly over were a flight of four F-16s flying the
missing man maneuver.  They were followed by four F-15s
and a C-141 transport.  Then the B-1 bomber flew over.
While the other planes were very loud, the B-1 was
earth shaking.  Then Miss Mitchell appeared.  Because
the plane is propeller-driven it took longer to over
fly the site.  It was also remarkable how small the
B-25 looked compared to the B-1.  Fifty years of
technological advances were sharply contrasted.  As
Miss Mitchell passed immediately over the grave site it
dipped its wings in an aeronautical salute to General
Doolittle.  As press accounts have reported, the
flyover by the B-25 was the most powerful emotionally
for the spectators.  I saw two veterans with tears in
their eyes.

Other Comments

Other than the changing of the Guard at the Tomb of the
Unknowns I haven't ever been to a military ceremony
before.  There were several things that I noticed about
this ceremony.  The most startling thing was the
relaxed and amiable atmosphere between the officers and
enlisted persons.  Someone else remarked that their
sense of the day was happy instead of somber and I got
this same sense.  Perhaps this mood existed because the
man that was laid to rest that day had lived such a
fantastic life; he had survived several plane crashes,
flown on what could have been a suicide mission and
then lived another 51 years to be a very, very old man.

I was disappointed by how few of the tourists knew
about General Doolittle but was heartened by the number
of people who came from far away to be there.  The
ceremony and flyover were spectacular; the military
really knows how to honor their soldiers and Gen.
Doolittle was one of their greatest.

I was able to take two pictures of Miss Mitchell during
the flyover.  I will try to make them electronically
available after they are developed.

Chuck McCormick
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 19:58:00 LCL
From:    Jeff Olson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Doolittle Raid

We sometimes think that the raid on Tokyo by General Doolittle merely
'irritated' Japan and bolstered the U.S. morale when, according to
Griffith's _The Battle for Guadalcanal_, that raid so embarrassed the
Japanese Navy and especially Yamamoto, that it resulted in the decision
to occupy Midway Island.  Prior to that raid, there was little
likelihood that the naval general staff would have approved the
occupation.  So...How do you suppose the worm would have turned
without the raid and subsequest decision to occupy Midway?

Jeff
---
. 1st 1.11 #1611 . [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 5 Oct 1993 23:31:39 -0400
From:    Akira Takiguchi <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: REF: Volume 14 of the series _Militaerfahrzeuge_

>So, Akira, what's the resolution to that Panzer VI tank destroyer
>that debutted at Kursk?  Is it a Ferdinand or an Elefant?  Thanks.

I've been unsuccessful to get D656/1 so far (Mililaergeschichtliches
Forschungsamt didn't have a copy);  I will certainly post the result
if I get one, but if Mr. Spielberger could enlighten us, that would
be better...
--
      Akira Takiguchi  VP, ATSON, Inc.  (a subsidiary of the Asahi Shimbun)
             CANAL TOWER  9-3 Nihonbashi-Koamicho Chuo-ku Tokyo 103  Japan
   +81 3 3666 2881(voice) 2882(fax)  EMAIL TO <[email-masked]>

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 4 Oct 1993 to 5 Oct 1993
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