Subject: WWII-L Digest - 9 Oct 1993 to 10 Oct 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 00:00:55 -0400

There are 3 messages totalling 92 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WEAP: Elefant, former Ferdinand (Re: REF: Volume 14 of the series
     _Militaerfahrzeuge_) (2)
  2. WWII 4th Armored Division

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Date:    Sun, 10 Oct 1993 08:01:29 -0400
From:    Akira Takiguchi <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Elefant,
         former Ferdinand (Re: REF: Volume 14 of the series _Militaerfahrzeuge_)

     A couple of days ago I visited my friend to know that my knowlege
was obsolete;  Motorbuch has already published Volume #15 of the series
_Militaerfahrzeuge_.  I bought a copy today.

>So, Akira, what's the resolution to that Panzer VI tank destroyer
>that debutted at Kursk?  Is it a Ferdinand or an Elefant?  Thanks.

     According to _Schwere Jagdpanzer_ (Spielberger, Doyle, Jentz), page
72 (only a few from over 20):

     - name -                   - source -        - date -
     Panzerjaeger Tiger (P)     D656/2(sic)       May 1 1943
     Ferdinand                  s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt.653 May 3 1943 - Apr 1 1944
     "Suggestivname Elefant fuer
      8,8 cm Sturmgeschuetz
      Porsche"                  Ge.St.d.H/Org.Abt Feb 27 1944

     AT LEAST front line troops called the monster "Ferdinand" as late as
early 1944.  That is, _Ferdinand_ is better for Kursk period.  I'm still
searching for D656/1 and Hitler's order on Jan 27th, 1944.  If somebody
out there have information, please let me know.

     BTW, this volume 15 is as valuable as its predecessor.  Covering
Jagdpanther, Ferdinand/Elefant and Jagdtiger, it's ... GREAT.
Many never before published photos of Ferdinands etc, lotsa new information.
You might be interested in the fact that PORSCHE TIGER was actually used
in the front line as a commanding tank of an Elefant formation (sPzJgAbt.
653).  The formation is yet more interesting that it had a Panther-with-
Panzer IV-turret as a command tank, 2cm FLAK on T34 (like Wirbelwind).
Photographs included.
--
      Akira Takiguchi  VP, ATSON, Inc.  (a subsidiary of the Asahi Shimbun)
             CANAL TOWER  9-3 Nihonbashi-Koamicho Chuo-ku Tokyo 103  Japan
   +81 3 3666 2881(voice) 2882(fax)  EMAIL TO <[email-masked]>

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Date:    Sun, 10 Oct 1993 12:57:38 -0400
From:    Akira Takiguchi <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Elefant,
         former Ferdinand (Re: REF: Volume 14 of the series _Militaerfahrzeuge_)

I posted the previous message too early :-(.  On page 116, _Schwere Jagd-
panzer_, it says (traslation by me):

"On November 1943 Hitler had asked OKH for a proposal about changing names
of armored vehicles and other weapons.  Their name proposal was accepted
and confirmed by an order on February 1st, 1944, repeated on February 27th."

This is the same order as that eliminated the name Hummel and changed
Hornisse to Nashorn.

It's time to close this case 8-).
--
      Akira Takiguchi  VP, ATSON, Inc.  (a subsidiary of the Asahi Shimbun)
             CANAL TOWER  9-3 Nihonbashi-Koamicho Chuo-ku Tokyo 103  Japan
   +81 3 3666 2881(voice) 2882(fax)  EMAIL TO <[email-masked]>

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Date:    Sun, 10 Oct 1993 18:17:07 PDT
From:    "Iver J. Kern" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII 4th Armored Division

Dear Mr. Jewell,

Thanks very much for your offer to post my inquiry to WWII-L.  Please
forward the following message to the list:

        My father, a former member of the 10th Armored Infantry Battalion of
the 4th Armored Division, is looking for information on the history of
the division during World War II.  He is particularly interested in the route
of the battalion through France, and the names of any other members of the
battalion who were with him there in 1944.  He also asked me to inquire
whether the 4th Armored Association is still in existence and, if so, how
to contact it.

        We would be very grateful for any help.  Please respond directly
to me by e-mail at [email-masked].

        Thanks very much for your help.

        Iver Kern
        <[email-masked]>

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End of WWII-L Digest - 9 Oct 1993 to 10 Oct 1993
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