Subject: WWII-L Digest - 18 Oct 1993 to 19 Oct 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 00:00:48 -0400

There are 7 messages totalling 268 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Type numbers for USN fighters
  2. GEN - Cannibalism
  3. REF: comfort women
  4. byrd (2)
  5. REF: chronology
  6. Weap: Grenades vs AFV's

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 19 Oct 1993 00:15:54 -0400
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Type numbers for USN fighters

Until reorganizing the numbering system in 1962, the USN alloted
a type designation that encoded the primary function of the
aircraft, the manufacturer, the number of aircraft designs of that
function accepted from that manufacturer, and a version number.

The first letter, or two letters, indicated the primary function(s)
intended for the aircraft.  Examples:
   B = bomber
   F = fighter
   O = observation
   P = patrol
   R = transport
   S = scout

There was also a code letter assigned for each manufacturer.  Examples:
   C = Curtiss           M = General Motors
   D = Douglas           U = Chance Vought
   F = Grumman           V = Lockheed
   H = McDonnell         Y = Consolidated
   J = North American

These two designators were separated by a number to indicate how many
aircraft designs from this manufacturer have been accepted for the
purpose, with the number "1" normally not used.

Another number, separated from the rest of the designation by a hyphen,
indicated major improvements to the original design.  An additional
letter could be used to indicate minor improvements that didn't
warrant a version change.

Examples:

SBD-3 = Scout Bomber, 1st SB design from Douglas, 3rd version

F4F-4 = Fighter, 4th fighter type from Grumman, 4th version

F6F = Fighter, 6th fighter type from Grumman, version not specified

F4U-1D = Fighter, 4th fighter type from Chance Vought, 1st major
         version, fourth minor improvement

PBY-5 = Patrol, 1st patrol aircraft from Consolidated, 5th version

PV-1 = Patrol, 1st patrol design from Lockheed, 1st version

In 1962, the system was overhauled.  Aircraft in service at the time
received a new designation that was as similar to their original
designation as possible.  The F4H became simply the F-4 (Phantom II),
the A4D became the A-4 (Skyhawk), etc.  An additional letter was added
to indicate versions.  The system was designed also to produce a
common designation system for aircraft from the different branches
of the US military, so some designators had to be changed completely.
The designation R4D was dropped in favor of the USAF designation of
C-47, for instance.

Dennis E. Sparks
[email-masked]
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 18 Oct 1993 19:13:26 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN - Cannibalism

>
> Christopher,
>         Not having Swinson's book immediately at hand, I have to go by
> memory. As I recollect, in late 1944 or early 1945 while attached to Lt.
> Gen. Honda's 33rd Army in Burma, Tsuji and some other staff officers
> supposedly killed an Allied pilot POW and ate his liver (sounds like Dr.
> Hannibal Lecter). Sought for war crimes, Tsuji hid out in SE Asia until
> the early 1950s, when he returned to Japan and got elected in the Diet,
> thereby gaining immunity. He supposedly disappeared in the mid 1960s
> and the rumor was he went to North Vietnam.
>         I would be curious to learn if anything new has come out on
> Tsuji since the late 1960s.

I read either in Toland or Ienaga that Tsuji had gone on a junket to China
where he disappeared.  I suspect that he had a few enemies left over from the
war.  I have them narrowed down to a few hundred thousand suspects, many of
them Japanese....

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 19 Oct 1993 07:37:00 -0400
From:    Kevin Kamphaus <[email-masked]>
Subject: REF: comfort women

I believe the show on confort women may have been on "Dateline NBC" which runs
Tuesdays at 10pm. I also saw this show and I don't think it was on Prime Time
or 20/20.

Kevin Kamphaus
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 19 Oct 1993 16:57:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: byrd

Byrd.
For 5 months I am using byrd via ftp and I am still very enthousiast.
Go to subdirectorie   "pub/historie" then you have the choise,
"maritime" and you find a list of all US battleship with there history
or to "military/airforce" and you wil find list of all US-fighters,
bombers,etc UK aircraft , USSR aircraft , German aircraft, or you
go to subdirectorie p_series_fighters.txt and you find of all USAAF
fighters from P-1 to P-86 a full description, fantastic.
Only the subdirectorie f_series_fighters.txt is denied for me???
You also can find in byrd the US navy chronology and the USAAF chron.
I want to thank Joe Baugher, Emmanuel Gustin, Larry Jewell and
Jack McKillop and all the others for there excellent job.
Peter de Lange
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 19 Oct 1993 13:20:51 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: REF: chronology

Con,

The book I had in mind when I wrote you earlier yesterday is a book
by a Canadian by the title "Meeting of the Generals". There is a book
out by David Irving entitled "War Between the Generals" which deals
with conflicts among the American/Allied High Command. You may be
aware of this one. I don't know if it is still in print, but I don't
recommend it. It is too full of conjecture and there are mistakes.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 19 Oct 1993 14:00:05 -0500
From:    WILLIAM HUBER - SCDR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Weap: Grenades vs AFV's

In Denis' message of 18 Oct 1993 at 0058 CDT, he sez:

lots of good mine data deleted....
> and the Russian TM-41 having 9 pounds (BTW if anyone has any comments about
> the Russian dog antitank mine let me know - did they have any success with
> this method?)

I read somewhere that the Russians had trained dogs to run after
tanks and when underneath them a charge would detonate (magnetically?)
and disable the tank.  The problem they ran into was that the dogs
were trained on T-34s and would run under T-34s more often than Pzkfw
IVs!!!  Most unpleasant!  I think they dropped the practice very
quickly.  The Soviets were not real dog lovers I guess and the dogs
must have sensed it (a dog Vlassov Legion perhaps??)  8-D

The US was not much better though, Psychologist B. F. Skinner worked
on guidance systems for "smart bombs".  He put a pigeon in a
windowed box and trained them to peck at ship shaped designs.  There
were sensors in the window that would alter the course of the bomb.
As the bird pecked it would change the angle of the fins and the bomb
would head where the bird pecked.  It should have worked well but
the project was dropped before going into use (the ASPCA must have
caught wind of it).

> In addition their were a number of hand thrown AT grenades. The inherent
> risk of getting close enough to actually use one suggests that not to many
> of these actually found their mark, but if anyone has info to the contrary
> please let me know.

The book _For Fuhrer and Fatherland_ Vol 1 (military awards) by J. R.
Angolia has a discussion of the award instituted in 1943 (I think) to
reward troops for the single handed destruction of an armored vehicle
without use of an AT weapon like the Panzerschreck or Panzerfaust or
PAK.  It was awarded to troops who took out an armored vehicle with
grenades, satchel charge, shaped charge or mines (manually applied).

As often happened in the East, German soldiers would get over run by
Soviet tanks which had outrun their infantry support or had it
suppressed by German fire which put enemy tanks in close proximity to
German troops.  Angolia writes about a Lt in the Grossdeutschland
division who's troops were in fox holes when over run by T-34s.  As a
tank overtook a soldier in a foxhole the tank would pivot and bury
the soldier in his position.  The Lt, so enraged at this, took
satchel charges and rushed the tank from behind and set a charge
under the turret of the tank.  After it blew up he ran to the next
and the next repeating the exercise and beat the attack back.  Over a
5 or 6 day period he personally destroyed 17 soviet vehicles in this
manner and won a sleeve full of these awards and a Knights Cross of
the Iron Cross to boot.  He had three gold (5 victories) awards and
two silver on his right sleeve.  His troops copied the style and
resulted in handing the Russians such heavy losses they broke contact.

This happened in the German army with some regularity as evidenced by
the number of photographs you see of troops wearing this award.  I
have two uniforms in my collection that have this award.  Its a
sliver tape stripe about 1" by 4" with two black border stripes and a
metal tank affixed to the center.  Ones also exists with an aircraft
which was awarded for single handed destruction of an aircraft with
small arms fire.  I have never seen one on a uniform or in a
photograph but I have an original example in my collection.  They are
*extremely* hard to find.

The Germans also had a glass grenade containing fulminate of mercury
that was used in anti-tank attacks.  When smashed against a tank the
chemical reaction resulted in making things *very* unpleasant for the
occupants of the tank and encouraged their rapid departure after
which they were dispatched or captured by the waiting infantry.

Interesting questions!  Thanks for bringing up the issue Denis.

Regards, Bill Huber
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 19 Oct 1993 20:36:06 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: byrd

>
> Byrd.
> For 5 months I am using byrd via ftp and I am still very enthousiast.
> Go to subdirectorie   "pub/historie" then you have the choise,
> "maritime" and you find a list of all US battleship with there history
> or to "military/airforce" and you wil find list of all US-fighters,
> bombers,etc UK aircraft , USSR aircraft , German aircraft, or you
> go to subdirectorie p_series_fighters.txt and you find of all USAAF
> fighters from P-1 to P-86 a full description, fantastic.
> Only the subdirectorie f_series_fighters.txt is denied for me???

  Fixed it.

  Send me a note if you find something screwy at byrd and I'll patch it
up.

  Glad you are finding it interesting. We've been getting material faster
than we can catalog it, but new stuff comes in every day, so check in often
and poke around, you never know what you'll find.

> You also can find in byrd the US navy chronology and the USAAF chron.
> I want to thank Joe Baugher, Emmanuel Gustin, Larry Jewell and
> Jack McKillop and all the others for there excellent job.
> Peter de Lange
> [email-masked]
>

servabo fidem

Larry J

[email-masked]; Listowner: WWII-L; Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 18 Oct 1993 to 19 Oct 1993
*************************************************