Subject: WWII-L Digest - 19 Oct 1993 to 20 Oct 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 00:01:33 -0400

There are 17 messages totalling 416 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Bataan Death March (8)
  2. re : byrd
  3. Weap: Grenades vs AFV's (2)
  4. re : recreation groups
  5. REF: Encyclopedia of German Tanks of WWII (2)
  6. A PhD in History
  7. Bataan Death March -- Deaths
  8. Al Stewart:  "Past, Present, Future" album

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Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 06:16:25 -0500
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bataan Death March

Posted to soc.history by [email-masked]> you write:

>Does anyone know where a list of the survivors of the Bataan death
>march may be found? I need to confirm that my uncle was the last
>living survivor. Thanks.

Reply to poster, post to soc.history, or send to me for forwarding.

Thanks,
Larry J

--
[email-masked]; Listowner: WWII-L; Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

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Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 13:55:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: re : byrd

> access denied
Larry, it is ok now

multo gratia.

Peter de lange
[email-masked]

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Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 09:33:17 -0400
From:    Akira Takiguchi <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Weap: Grenades vs AFV's

Bill Huber:
>Ones also exists with an aircraft
>which was awarded for single handed destruction of an aircraft with
>small arms fire.  I have never seen one on a uniform or in a
>photograph but I have an original example in my collection.  They are
>*extremely* hard to find.

     Tieffliegervernichtungsabzeichen!  Really?  That award was one of
the last awards established (ordered by Hitler on Jan 12th 1945, confirmed
by OKW on the next day).  According to Klietmann, it is unclear whether
the award was actually issued WITH certification (there is a report of
a soldier who shot down a Yak 2 with MP44).  Your collecton must be as
precious as a Knight's cross with diamonds!  I envy you.
     BTW, there are post-war replicas, of course.  The real thing had 90mm
width, 32mm height, with two 3mm black stripes.
--
      Akira Takiguchi  VP, ATSON, Inc.  (a subsidiary of the Asahi Shimbun)
             CANAL TOWER  9-3 Nihonbashi-Koamicho Chuo-ku Tokyo 103  Japan
   +81 3 3666 2881(voice) 2882(fax)  EMAIL TO <[email-masked]>

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Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 08:58:49 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bataan Death March

        I'm interested in the Bataan Death March survivors too. My best
friend's dad was on the march. Those who survived the actual march
became some of the earliest American POWs, which meant they had a long
time in the Japanese death camps. My friend's father died OF his
camp treatment in the 1950s. He had ulcerative colitis caused by the parasites
in camp food. Apparently in the 1950s the medical folk had not learned
how to control colitis with steroids as they do today. I'd like to
hear more about the whole group of Death Marchers too.

                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

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Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 15:12:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: re : recreation groups

Keep 'm rolling
I have heard and i have seen the Dutch organisation "keep 'em rolling"
I never spoke with them but as i understand it is a organisation open
for everyone who owns a wwii vehicle. So the vehicles are privit.
I read a story about 2 man who went (15 yaers ago) to N.Afrika to
find there a special car. They bring it to Holland and try to make
and keep the car rolling.
The nice thing in the Netherlands is that every town and every village
has its own liberation date and story. With the parties of 40,45 and
now coming 50 years liberation the organisation is invited by many
towns to show the liberation again. They are able to use the origonal
routes the allies used in 44-45. You have no idee how wonderful a
big white star is and still is, after 5 years of suppression.
I think it is a wonderfull idea to go from Belgium to Nijmegen and
I hope they go on to Arnhem ,only 15 minutes, now, to show that that
is possible.
Peter de Lange
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 12:18:43 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bataan Death March

Larry,

There are certainly living survivors from the Bataan Death March. I
would think the best source on that would be Donald Knox who visited
several chapters of the "Escape Society" across this country. There
is such a chapter here in Amarillo, BTW. I have talked with several
vets here who told me of his (Knox's) to locate the whereabouts of
BDM survivors.

Donald Knox wrote a book detailing this event (the reason for the
visitations), and, to my knowledge, is the outstanding work on the
subject. His uncle is not the last, if this is what he meant.

Terry Moore

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 12:28:00 CDT
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bataan Death March

I met a fellow -- a father of a friend -- up in Juneau, Alaska.  She knew
  I was a WWII buff and cautioned me to say NOTHING to him about his
  experience, since he wouldn't talk about it.

They gave me a ride home after work, one evening, so we got started talking
  about it (to my friend's horror).  He was willing to talk about it, quite
  candidly.

The next morning, with big circles under her eyes, she said he had continued
  talking about it, with her and her mother, all through the night and into
  the morning.  She was grateful I had been the catalyst to finally open up
  her father.

I was taking a big risk, though, and I knew it; but they were good people
  and worth it.

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 13:58:18 -0500
From:    WILLIAM HUBER - SCDR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Weap: Grenades vs AFV's

In Akira's message of 20 Oct 1993 at 1137 CDT, he wrote:
>
>      Tieffliegervernichtungsabzeichen!  Really?  That award was one of
> the last awards established (ordered by Hitler on Jan 12th 1945, confirmed
> by OKW on the next day).  According to Klietmann, it is unclear whether
> the award was actually issued WITH certification (there is a report of
> a soldier who shot down a Yak 2 with MP44).  Your collecton must be as
> precious as a Knight's cross with diamonds!  I envy you.
>      BTW, there are post-war replicas, of course.  The real thing had 90mm
> width, 32mm height, with two 3mm black stripes.

The story that came along with it was that an American or British
plane was shot down by a tank commander using the hatch MG34 in the
commander's cupola of a Panther.  Of course one never knows for sure
as they are faking things so well these days.  This particular piece
has been in my collection since 1983 and I was *very* fortunate to
have found it.  It smells strongly of diesel fuel.  I have seen many
fakes of this award and in comparison none are even close.  I am
99.99% confident that this is a good one but, again, I was not there
so the possibility exists its not, however remote.  Its the risk all
collectors take.  Remember the Hermann Goring Wedding Sword swindle?
That item was quite convincingly documented including photographs of
the veteran holding the sword.  You just never know. :-/

Regards,  Bill
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 14:44:53 EDT
From:    "William B. Thacker" <[email-masked]>
Subject: REF: Encyclopedia of German Tanks of WWII

Last night there was a package waiting at my house from the Military Book
Club.  It contained the two copies of the revised version of _The
Encyclopedia of German Tanks of WWII_ by Chamberlain, Doyle, and Jentz.

I was happy to see the revised edition offered; my original copy of the
first edition, bought in '78, is a shambles from years of hard use.  (The
second copy is an early deposit on my Christmas shopping!)

I heartily recommend the book, BTW... if you can have only one reference
on German armor, thish ought to be it.

Having skimmed it, I saw nothing (apart from the color of the cover and
dust jacket) to distinguish it from the original edition.  Not even a new
forward was provided, though the dust jacket promises that mistakes have
been corrected.

If all they've done is to correct erroneous data, I'm still quite happy.
But I'd like to know if anything new has been added; I'm not up to
re-reading it cover to cover.

Anybody out there know much about the revised edition?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker             AT&T Network Systems       attmail!att!cbemf!wbt
(614) 860-5294           Columbus, Ohio              [email-masked]
                      Humpty Dumpty was pushed!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 14:49:25 -0500
From:    WILLIAM HUBER - SCDR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bataan Death March

In Sidney's message of 20 Oct 1993 at 1356 CDT, he sez:
>         I'm interested in the Bataan Death March survivors too. My best
> friend's dad was on the march. Those who survived the actual march
> became some of the earliest American POWs, which meant they had a long
> time in the Japanese death camps.
>
>                                                         --Sid
> --
> Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]

Somebody wrote yesterday about the last surviving Bataan Death March
survivor.  I know of at least one more here in San Antonio, Texas.
He had been a Coastal Artillery officer on one of the islands.  I
have his autobiography (unpublished) in my library.  If anyone is
interested I will see if he will allow me to put excerpts on the list.

Cheers, Bill Huber
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 16:01:29 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bataan Death March

Sidney,

Will keep you informed. I will try and locate the address of Mr.
Donald Knox. He would have current info on the whereabouts of the
survivors, as far as I know. It may only be possible to contact him
through his publisher.

He was here in Amarillo a few years ago to research his book about
Batann.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 16:23:51 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bataan Death March

Sidney and others,

I have some good and some bad news. Mr. Donald Knox died on 18 Apr
1986 at the age of 50. Can you believe that? What a shock it was for
me to learn of that.

For specific information on BDM survivors, you may contact:

    American Defenders of Bataan and Corregidor
    c/o Capt. Elmer E. Long, Jr.
    P.O. Box 12052
    New Bern, NC 28561-2052

    He is the secretary of the organization. They publish a
newsletter called QUAN (all caps) 5 times per year for 8 dollars.

    This organization meets annually between 9 Apr and 6 May. The
meeting in 1994 will be in Indianapolis, Indiana, and the one in
1995 will be held in Boston, Massachusetts.

    Hope this if of help.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 17:30:48 -0400
From:    Steven VEST <[email-masked]>
Subject: A PhD in History

Folks:

     I've been lurking about for a long while and I wanted to call upon
the knowledge of this group for guidance.  After years of agonizing I've
nearly decide to enter a PhD program in History.  Of course, what I
really want to do is study somewhere that would allow me to write my
dissertation on WWII.  Do any of you know any programs that are
particularly well known for professors or collections involving WWII?

     I'm open to anywhere in the U.S..  I just don't want to apply to a
program that looks good on paper only to find that they have "We ain't
gonna study war no more" engraved above the door. ;-)

     Thanks much!

         Steven Vest

========================== [email-masked]=========================
= Steven Vest: Head, Off Campus Lib. Services: Nova University, Ft. Ldl, FL  =
  Two broken tigers, on fire in the night.  Flicker their souls to the wind.
                                                Al Stewart: Roads to Moscow
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 22:26:35 -0400
From:    Akira Takiguchi <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: REF: Encyclopedia of German Tanks of WWII

Bill Thacker:
>Last night there was a package waiting at my house from the Military Book
>Club.  It contained the two copies of the revised version of _The
>Encyclopedia of German Tanks of WWII_ by Chamberlain, Doyle, and Jentz.
:
>I heartily recommend the book, BTW... if you can have only one reference
>on German armor, thish ought to be it.

     100% agreed.

>Having skimmed it, I saw nothing (apart from the color of the cover and
>dust jacket) to distinguish it from the original edition.  Not even a new
>forward was provided, though the dust jacket promises that mistakes have
>been corrected.
:
>Anybody out there know much about the revised edition?

     Don't know much, but from what I heard, authors had new information
to fill up additional 50 pages, but the publisher didn't want to revise
the book that much.  Pity.

     BTW, a letter from J.J.Fedorowicz publishing says that there is a
plan to publish a new great series about German AFVs.  Keep watching!
--
      Akira Takiguchi  VP, ATSON, Inc.  (a subsidiary of the Asahi Shimbun)
             CANAL TOWER  9-3 Nihonbashi-Koamicho Chuo-ku Tokyo 103  Japan
   +81 3 3666 2881(voice) 2882(fax)  EMAIL TO <[email-masked]>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 21:38:54 CDT
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bataan Death March -- Deaths

I would act fast, these WWII vets' numbers are really starting to thin.
  My Dad is 73!  (That means I am . . . . AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 21:47:57 CDT
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: Al Stewart:  "Past, Present, Future" album

I trust EVERYBODY has a copy of this "most excellent" album?!

Lou Coatney
  WIU

(Even better than Mason Williams' "Music."  Has anyone else heard the
  "The Ballad of J. Edgar Swoop"?)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 20 Oct 1993 18:34:39 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bataan Death March

>
>         I'm interested in the Bataan Death March survivors too. My best
> friend's dad was on the march. Those who survived the actual march
> became some of the earliest American POWs, which meant they had a long
> time in the Japanese death camps. My friend's father died OF his
> camp treatment in the 1950s. He had ulcerative colitis caused by the parasites
> in camp food. Apparently in the 1950s the medical folk had not learned
> how to control colitis with steroids as they do today. I'd like to
> hear more about the whole group of Death Marchers too.

The last person I met on my last day of active duty in the army was a NG
tanker and survivor of the March.  He asked me to take a picture of him
in front of the street sign named after his unit at Ft. Knox.  A real nice
guy, with a lot of interesting stories.

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End of WWII-L Digest - 19 Oct 1993 to 20 Oct 1993
*************************************************