Subject: WWII-L Digest - 7 Nov 1993 to 8 Nov 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 00:00:46 -0500

There are 27 messages totalling 1157 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. USAAF 8 NOV 43
  2. INF: Mailing list H-Teach
  3. USAAF 6-7 NOV 43
  4. Guy Sajer (3)
  5. mystery (3)
  6. Long Lance Torpedo (4)
  7. GEN/EDU: WWII and Japanese/Japanese Americans (3)
  8. 442nd (3)
  9. Japanese Americans, WWII, and the 442d (2)
 10. USAAF 5 NOV 43 (2)
 11. Original "Memphis Belle"
 12. INF,REF: German plans for attacking Sweden
 13. HELP ME FIND TODD PARDY (2)

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Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 07:06:34 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 8 NOV 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
MONDAY, 8 NOVEMBER 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt

CENTRAL PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Seventh Air Force): The 73d Fighter
Squadron, 318th Fighter Group, transfers from Mokuleia Field to Bellows Field,
Territory of Hawaii with P-47's.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 5 B-24's lay mines in the Rangoon
River during the night of 8/9 Nov.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 2 B-25's bomb the Kiungshan
airfield, scoring direct hits on 2 hangars; 6 P-40's attack Hsiangyangchiao
bridge, causing little damage.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): VIII Bomber Command Mission 125: 2
B-17's drop 312,000 leaflets over Paris at 0038-0042 hours.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Italy, 81 B-17's bomb the
Turin ball bearing works, marshalling yard, and nearby motor and aircraft
engine works; P-38's provide escort as far N as Imperia.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): Weather cancels all XII Air Support
Command missions except fighter patrols. In Italy, Northwest African Tactical
Bomber Force (NATBF) bombers and Royal Air Force (RAF) Desert Air Force (DAF)
fighters fly only 6 missions, hitting gun positions along the battleline,
vehicles W of the Sangro River, and trains at Civitanova and Pescara.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force): On Bougainville
Island in the Solomon Islands, 22 B-24's bomb Bonis airfield; 6 B-25's hit
targets of opportunity at the month of the Laruma River and NW of Torokina
while 6 others bomb Kieta.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force): B-24's on armed
reconnaissance bomb Garove Island in the Bismarck Archipelago and hit Kaimana,
New Guinea.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 07:00:20 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: Mailing list H-Teach

Forwarded for those who might be interested:

Date:     Mon, 8 Nov 1993 00:01:10 -0600
Sender: H-Net Teaching History discussion list
              <@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU:H-TEACH@UICVM>

Topics of the day:
  2. Using H-Teach
 -----------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Nov 1993 15:28:51 CST
From:    "h-teach co-moderator (Constantin Fasolt)" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Using H-Teach

Moderator's Note (CF): I have received a request to explain to the list how
to subscribe to H-TEACH, how to unsubscribe, how to change distribution
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(1) If you kept a copy of the welcome letter you received when you
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(6) Since LISTSERV REFCARD explains the commands, I do not need to explain
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In the hope that this is useful to some of you,

Constantin Fasolt                                 Department of History
H-Teach Co-Moderator                              University of Chicago
H-Teach List address: H-Teach@uicvm               1126 East 59th Street
Personal address: [email-masked]        Chicago, IL 60637
              or: [email-masked]           (312) 702 7935

 -----------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 07:04:37 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 6-7 NOV 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

SATURDAY, 6 NOVEMBER 1943

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ANTISUBMARINE OPERATIONS (First Air Force): The ground echelon of the 23d
Antisubmarine Squadron (Heavy), I Bomber Command, at Smoky Hill AAFld, Kansas
is disbanded. The air echelon is at Edinburgh Field, Trinidad with a detachment
at Zandery Field, Surinam with B-25's.

CENTRAL PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Seventh Air Force): Advanced HQ,
Seventh Air Force, is set up on Funafuti Atoll in the Ellice Islands to
provide a HQ closer to targets in the Gilbert and Marshall Islands. VII Air
Force Service Command and VII Bomber Command also establish forward echelons
at Funafuti. Landing fields are being built on Baker Island; and Nukufetau and
Nanumea Islands in the Ellice Islands, to be used, along with existing fields
at Canton Island in the Phoenix Islands and Funafuti Atoll in the Ellice
Islands as operational bases for attacks on Tarawa Atoll and Makin Island in
the Gilbert Islands; Mille Atoll in the Caroline Islands; Maloelap and Jaluit
Atolls in the Marshall Islands and Nauru Island. These operations will mark the
assumption of the offensive by the Seventh Air Force and will play a
conspicuous role in the invasion and occupation of the Gilbert and Marshall
Islands.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 2 B-24's lay mines in the Rangoon
River during the night of 6/7 Nov.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): VIII Bomber Command Mission 123. 2
B-17's drop 440,000 leaflets over Paris at 0241-0250 hours.
  The 36th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), Eighth Air Force, arrives at
Alconbury, England from the U.S. The squadron will begin flying CARPETBAGGER
missions in Dec 43.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): HQ IX Bomber Command arrives at Marks
Hall, England from Bengasi, Libya.
  HQ 315th Troop Carrier Group and it's 34th Troop Carrier Squadron transfer
from Aldermaston to Welford, England. The 34th is operating from Blida,
Algeria with C-47's.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Italy, 4 B-17's attack the
Fiora River bridge, 3 attack a bridge N of Orbetello, and 11 P-38's attack a
bridge S of Orvieto. P-38's escorted by others, hit approaches to a bridge
near Monte Molino, and the escorting fighters afterwards strafe Tarquinia
Airfield, a train N of Civitavecchia, and vehicles between Montefiascone and
Vetralla.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, XII Air Support Command
fighter-bombers strike gun positions, bridges, and roads around Mignano,
vehicles N of Cassino, and a train N of Aquino airfield. Other Northwest
African Tactical Air Force (NATAF) fighters attack numerous road and rail
transport targets through-out Italy N of the battleline and in Yugoslavia.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force): In the Solomon
Islands, 9 B-25's with US Navy fighter support hit the airfield and harbor of
Buka Island. On Bougainville Island, 1 B-25 bombs Kieta and attacks Tinputs
Harbor; 7 barges and small vessels are claimed sunk; 24 B-25's with fighter
support follow US Navy (USN) dive bombers and fighters in an attack on Kara
Airfield; and 17 B-24's bomb Bonis Airfield.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force): P-40's hit Gasmata
Island off the south coast of New Britain Island. In New Guinea, enemy
airplanes attack Nadzab, Dumpu, and Finschhafen but cause no major damage.
  The 17th Reconnaissance Squadron (Bombardment) and 82d Reconnaissance
Squadron (Fighter), 71st Reconnaissance Group, arrive at Milne Bay, New Guinea
from the U.S. with B-25's and P-39's respectively. The squadrons will fly their
first missions on 28 Jan 44 and 27 Nov respectively.

SUNDAY, 7 NOVEMBER 1943

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 2 B-25's pound Amoy harbor, claiming
several boats sunk. 6 P-40's attack a bridge at Hsiangyangchiao, causing only
minor damage.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): VIII Bomber Command Mission 124.
Three targets in Germany are hit without loss. Poor weather restricts
operations.
  1. 53 of 59 B-17's bomb the Wesel industrial area at 1124-1125 hours; 4
B-17's are damaged; casualties are 1 KIA and 2 WIA.
  2. 60 B-17's are dispatched to the industrial area at Duren; 37 hit the
primary target at 1114 hours and 20 hit Randerath, the secondary target, at
1114-1125 hours; 2 B-17's are damaged.
  3. 2 of 3 B-17 pathfinders escort the B-17's dispatched to Duren but an Oboe
PFF failure resulted in the bombs being widely scattered.
  The bombers are escorted by 283 P-47's; they claim 1-0-0 Luftwaffe aircraft;
6 P-47's are lost; casualties are 6 MIA.
  HQ 20th Combat Bombardment Wing (Heavy) transfers from Hethel to Hardwick,
England.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 200+ B-26's dispatched to attack
airfields at Montdidier and Meulan-Les Mureaux, France are forced to abort the
mission because of bad weather. The B-26's are escorted by 54 P-38's and 49
P-47's of the Eighth Air Force; 2 P-38's are lost.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Bad weather cancels heavy bomber
operations.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): Northwest African Tactical Bomber
Force (NATBF) bombers hit gun position along the British Eighth and US Fifth
Army fronts, shipping at Ancona, Italy harbor, and the town of Ulcinj,
Yugoslavia; Durazzo, Albania is bombed at night. XII Air Support Command and
other fighters of the Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF) hit the
harbor and shipping at Split and a train near Metkovic, Yugoslavia, and attack
bridges, road junctions, town area, and trucks in the Mignano-Cassino and
Pontecorvo, Italy. areas.
  The 10th Troop Carrier Squadron, 60th Troop Carrier Group, transfer from
Gela to Gerbini, Sicily with C-47's.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force): In the Solomon
Islands, 8 B-25's bomb barge concentration and beach targets in Atsinima Bay.
21 B-24's pound the airfield on Buka Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force): On New Britain
Island, 25 B-24's, with an escort of 60+ P-38's, bomb Rapopo airstrip; a large
force of enemy fighters intercepts the formations and in the ensuing battle 5
P-38's are lost; US airplanes claim 20+ fighters shot down and several more
destroyed on the ground. In New Guinea, 9 B-25's bomb Wewak and 40+ others
turn back when the fighter escort is intercepted by airplanes over Nadzab;
enemy aircraft attack Nadzab and Bena Bena; 16 US aircraft are destroyed or
damaged by the raids but 14 airplanes are shot down by US fighters.
  HQ 71st Reconnaissance Group arrives at Port Moresby, New Guinea from the
U.S.
  The 529th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 380th Bombardment Group (Heavy),
transfers from Manbulloo to Long Strip, Australia with B-24's.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 06:57:52 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Guy Sajer

Date sent:      Fri, 5 Nov 1993 08:37:39 EST
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: Guy Sajer
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

>I am a reference librarian at the University of North Texas and I
>have a reference question from a patron that I hope you folks can
>help me with.  The patron needs any biographical information on Guy
>Sajer, the author of "The Forgotten Soldier" that has appeared since
>he published his book.  If he has died, I need to know his dates.  If
>he is still living, where is he and has he been involved in anything
>significant lately? I've checked BIOBASE and the other standard
>biographical indexes that we have here and have come up empty.
>Anybody out there have any information or any ideas on where I can
>look? I remember several posts on "The Forgotten Soldier" from a
>couple of months back but, dummy that I am, I deleted them. If you
>can find any information, please give me the source. Thanks in
>advance.
>
>Walter F. Bell
>University of North Texas Libraries
>Denton, Texas
>[email-masked]

Walter,

Guy Sajer is deceased.  He died a few years ago.  My friend who met him
says any info that is available might be had through the
Grossdeutschland Association (soldiers who served in the Grossdeutschland
Division in World War II) in Germany.  I do not have an address.

Bear

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

Walter,

I can supply the address of the Grossdeutschland Veterans
Association, as I have many contacts within that organization. The
head of it is Peter Frantz, and I will have to supply you his address,
and others, if you are interested, who can supply you with the
required info. I don't know,however, if they speak English, but I am
certain that your letter would be answered. I will get back to you.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 07:02:48 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: mystery

Date sent:      Sat, 6 Nov 1993 11:18:19 +0700
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: mystery
Originally to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

On Fri, 5 Nov 1993, Terry Moore wrote:

>
> Also, as you know, in the post war era, with this country conducting
> overflights of Soviet territory, there were instances of these planes
> being shot down with no clue as to the whereabouts or state of the
> survivors.
>
It didn't end with overflights.  A friend told me that his brother, who
served in the Special Forces (or a predecesor organization) was
parachuted with his unit into the Soviet Far East with the mission of
extracting one or more prisanors held in a Russian camp there.  We did
not discuss it in detail or further, but the next time see him, I will
ask for more information.  Perhaps now that the cold war is over some of
these missions will come to the surface.

Peter,

That is fascinating! Please post any additonal info on this, as you
find it.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 07:27:28 -0600
From:    WILLIAM HUBER - SCDR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Guy Sajer

In Walter Bell's message of  5 Nov 1993 at 1032 CST, he write:

> >I am a reference librarian at the University of North Texas and I
> >have a reference question from a patron that I hope you folks can
> >help me with.  The patron needs any biographical information on Guy
> >Sajer, the author of "The Forgotten Soldier" that has appeared since
> >he published his book.  If he has died, I need to know his dates.  If
> >Walter F. Bell
> >University of North Texas Libraries
>
>
> Walter,
>
> Guy Sajer is deceased.  He died a few years ago.  My friend who met him
> says any info that is available might be had through the
> Grossdeutschland Association (soldiers who served in the Grossdeutschland
> Division in World War II) in Germany.  I do not have an address.
>
> Bear
>
> Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!

Hi Walter, Bear and whoever else may be interested,

Try contacting:

        Harald Fuchs & Hans Schardt

Traditionsgemeinschaft Panzer Korps ,,GD" u. Brandenburg Verba"nde
         Lindenstrasse 10
         2170 Henimoor     Germany

They are in charge of the veterans organization of former GD troops.

Good Hunting,

              Bill Huber
              [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 09:08:53 EST
From:    Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Long Lance Torpedo

> Later in the war some aircraft got poetic names, but not in the 1930's. We
> had names like Aircobra and Wildcat, they just had designations like Type 99
> Carrier-Borne Attack Airplane.

I was under the impression from a few things I've read/heard that the
British "named" most of the US aircraft and amored fighting vehicles.
Is this true, or did a few/some/most/all of the nicknames in fact originate
in the US?

  __|  __|  __|  |  Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
_|   _|   _|     |
 |       | |     |  Computer Sciences Corp., Integrated Systems Div.
 ___|____/ ___|  |  304 W. Rte. 38, Moorestown, NJ 08057

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 08:37:31 CST
From:    Rod Flancher <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: mystery

>>>>> On Fri, 5 Nov 1993 14:58:52 GMT-6, Terry Moore <[email-masked]> said:

Terry> Dennis,
Terry> The only thing that comes to mind here is that Americans were
Terry> routinely interned if they came into Russian control. Even some of
Terry> the Doolittle raiders were interned, but released, mainly, I think,
Terry> because they were too well known, and it would have been very
Terry> difficult to retain them without raising a stink in the U.S.

        This is my first posting, and am fairly new to the WWII list.
    Thanks to all the information that floated around the world regarding
    Doolitle's death, and not knowing anything about the raid, I found
    a wonderful book that detailed the raid from the plan's conception
    through the last POW returning home. Correct me if I am wrong, but
    this book stated that the raiders who were interned in Russia,
    actually escaped from Russia through present day Iran, via some
    sort of black market trader. The book states that they wrote a
    letter to Stalin requesting to be released, or at least a job and
    to be moved to a warmer climate, the second of which was granted.

        This book, which I unfortunately don't remember the title, or
    author off hand (I'd have to return to the library to get it) was
    a wonderful book that I would recommend to anyone who wants to
    know about the Doolittle raid. It detailed every plane and person
    from the carrier through the end of their ordeal. If anyone wants
    the information, I'd be glad to go back and get it....

        Rod

        -------------------------------------------------------------------------
        "The only thing God didn't do to Job
         was to give him a computer".        - I.F.Stone

        [email-masked]
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 09:34:11 EST
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN/EDU: WWII and Japanese/Japanese Americans

On Sat, 6 Nov 1993 10:20:07 -0600 Valerie Smith said:
>Are you a 442nd Regimental vet, or do you know someone who is?  If so, I'm
>looking for you or them!
>
>. . . .  Our current assignmnet is to develop a unit of study on
>WWII from the Japanese-American perspective.  Our unit must include a
>variety of activities in music, art, mathematics, social studies, English,
>science, etc.  My project. . . . is to provide students in
>grades 5-9 with a general overview of the war from the Japanese and
>Japanese-American perspectives.  I AM NOT A WWII EXPERT, NOR AM I TRYING
>TO BE ONE, rather I am a teacher trying to bring another perspective of
>the War to students in an interactive and interesting manner.

You might consider a showing of the film =Go for Broke=, which covers the
activities of the 442nd from formation through return to the U.S. and which
shows clearly the problems facing the men of the unit & the prejudice with
which they were initially greeted.  I have the impression that the film
is pretty factual, although I am no expert & Hollywood often gets things
wrong (-:

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 15:37:57 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Long Lance Torpedo

On Mon, 8 Nov 1993, Charles Reace wrote:

> I was under the impression from a few things I've read/heard that the
> British "named" most of the US aircraft and amored fighting vehicles.
> Is this true, or did a few/some/most/all of the nicknames in fact originate
> in the US?

The British preferred to select their own names. The results were not
always inspiring, e.g. the F4F Wildcat became the 'Martlet' in British
service, the TBF Avenger became 'Tarpon', the SB2U Vindicator became
'Chesapeake', and the A-20 'Havoc' became 'Boston'. Later some of the
names were synchronized; the British adopted most of the American names.
There were exceptions; the P-51 kept the British name of 'Mustang' instead
of the older 'Apache' (still used for the A-36).

The 'naming' of bought equipment was a necessity, because the British did
not have a 'numeric' designation system.

Emmanuel Gustin                                             Lucus a non lucendo
Physics Department, University of Antwerp, Belgium                Quintillianus
[email-masked]                       /---------------------------------------
-------------------------------------/         FROM StdTexts IMPORT Disclaimer;

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 09:35:57 CST
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Long Lance Torpedo

>   Later in the war some aircraft got poetic names, but not in the 1930's. We
>   had names like Aircobra and Wildcat, they just had designations like Type 99
>   Carrier-Borne Attack Airplane.

>   QUESTION: Who gave the Long Lance its name, and why ?
>   All comments are welcome !

In today's world, all weapons, aircraft, ships, etc. are given names
based on a lettering scheme.

All (former) Soviet fighters are given a name beginning with F (Foxbat,
Fulcrum, etc.) and all Soviet bombers are named with B (Backfire, Bear,
etc.)

This makes it very easy for someone to understand they are approaching
a Soviet fighter based on its name even if you've never heard of it
before -- you don't need to know the manufacturer, model number, etc.
It's a very easy thing to deal with.

I don't know if this was a common technique during WWII, but there are
appearances that similar naming schemes were at least roughly in effect
(Japanese bombers seemed to have female names, fighters, males ones...)

Could Japanese torpedoes simply have a naming scheme beginning with L
for identification purposes?

Considering how the military likes to acronym and rename everything, it
wouldn't surprise me a bit.  :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 10:53:59 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: mystery

Rod Flancher writes:
|->
|-> >>>>> On Fri, 5 Nov 1993 14:58:52 GMT-6, Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
|-> said:
|->
|-> Terry> Dennis,
|-> Terry> The only thing that comes to mind here is that Americans were
|-> Terry> routinely interned if they came into Russian control. Even some of
|-> Terry> the Doolittle raiders were interned, but released, mainly, I think,
|-> Terry> because they were too well known, and it would have been very
|-> Terry> difficult to retain them without raising a stink in the U.S.
|->
|->
|->         This is my first posting, and am fairly new to the WWII list.
|->     Thanks to all the information that floated around the world regarding
|->     Doolitle's death, and not knowing anything about the raid, I found
|->     a wonderful book that detailed the raid from the plan's conception
|->     through the last POW returning home. Correct me if I am wrong, but
|->     this book stated that the raiders who were interned in Russia,
|->     actually escaped from Russia through present day Iran, via some
|->     sort of black market trader. The book states that they wrote a
|->     letter to Stalin requesting to be released, or at least a job and
|->     to be moved to a warmer climate, the second of which was granted.

        More specifically they asked to be able to use their knowledge
about aircraft in some way to help the Soviets.

|->         This book, which I unfortunately don't remember the title, or
|->     author off hand (I'd have to return to the library to get it) was
|->     a wonderful book that I would recommend to anyone who wants to
|->     know about the Doolittle raid. It detailed every plane and person
|->     from the carrier through the end of their ordeal. If anyone wants
|->     the information, I'd be glad to go back and get it....

        I think you are referring to one of the books by Col. Carroll
Glines. The one I have read was called _The Doolittle Raid_, I think.
He also helped Gen. Doolittle write his autobiography, which I just
happen to be reading now. Jimmy Doolittle had an amazing and full
life. Very few of us will have the luck to be in as many crucial
situations and have so many opportunities to serve our country and a
loved one -- in this case, aviation.

                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 11:09:02 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN/EDU: WWII and Japanese/Japanese Americans

Ken Koester writes:
|->
|-> On Sat, 6 Nov 1993 10:20:07 -0600 Valerie Smith said:
|-> >Are you a 442nd Regimental vet, or do you know someone who is?  If so, I'm
|-> >looking for you or them!
|-> >
|-> >. . . .  Our current assignmnet is to develop a unit of study on
|-> >WWII from the Japanese-American perspective.  Our unit must include a
|-> >variety of activities in music, art, mathematics, social studies, English,
|-> >science, etc.  My project. . . . is to provide students in
|-> >grades 5-9 with a general overview of the war from the Japanese and
|-> >Japanese-American perspectives.  I AM NOT A WWII EXPERT, NOR AM I TRYING
|-> >TO BE ONE, rather I am a teacher trying to bring another perspective of
|-> >the War to students in an interactive and interesting manner.
|->
|-> You might consider a showing of the film =Go for Broke=, which covers the
|-> activities of the 442nd from formation through return to the U.S. and which
|-> shows clearly the problems facing the men of the unit & the prejudice with
|-> which they were initially greeted.  I have the impression that the film
|-> is pretty factual, although I am no expert & Hollywood often gets things
|-> wrong (-:

        This is one of my favorite WWII movies. There is a sequence of
scenes showing the 442nd in Italy. In one scene, a company of Nisei
overrun a German strongpoint. A German officer is surrendering and
finds himself at the business ends of several M-1s each held by very
Japanese looking GI. He raises his hands and remarks: "I thought you
were on our side."
        If any unit deserves a good movie about it, the 442nd
Regimental Combat Team is it!!

                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 11:18:30 CST
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: 442nd

Did I tell you folks about my son and his teacher (who was a 442nd daughter)?

Anybody want to hear it?

Lou

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 12:36:12 EST
From:    Cathy Lewis <[email-masked]>
Subject: Japanese Americans, WWII, and the 442d

I would recommend that you contact Tom Crouch, who is the Aeronautics Dept
Chair at the National Air and Space Museum. Tom was the chief curator of "A
More Perfect Union," the National Museum of American History exhibit on the
internment of the Japanese during WWII. He maintains close contacts with
members of the 442d and could point you in the direction of educational
materials on the topic. I don't believe that he has an e-mail address, but you
can reach him by phone at 202/357-2515.

Cathleen S. Lewis ([email-masked])
National Air and Space Museum
Smithsonian Institution

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 12:14:49 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Long Lance Torpedo

Date sent:      Mon, 8 Nov 1993 09:08:53 EST
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: Long Lance Torpedo
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

> Later in the war some aircraft got poetic names, but not in the 1930's. We
> had names like Aircobra and Wildcat, they just had designations like Type 99
> Carrier-Borne Attack Airplane.

I was under the impression from a few things I've read/heard that the
British "named" most of the US aircraft and amored fighting vehicles.
Is this true, or did a few/some/most/all of the nicknames in fact originate
in the US?

  __|  __|  __|  |  Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
_|   _|   _|     |
 |       | |     |  Computer Sciences Corp., Integrated Systems Div.
 ___|____/ ___|  |  304 W. Rte. 38, Moorestown, NJ 08057

Charles,

To the best of my knowledge, we named almost all our aircraft and
fighting vehicles. The only exceptions that come to mind are the P-38
Lightning and the P-51 Mustang, but I am certain there are others,
but none come to mind.

I have read quite a bit about fighting vehicles, but I don't remember
coming across anything that specifically related to naming our
vehicles by way of the Brits. If you run across anything to the
contrary, please post.

Thanks.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 12:24:14 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN/EDU: WWII and Japanese/Japanese Americans

Date sent:      Mon, 8 Nov 1993 11:09:02 -0500
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: GEN/EDU: WWII and Japanese/Japanese Americans
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

Ken Koester writes:
|->
|-> On Sat, 6 Nov 1993 10:20:07 -0600 Valerie Smith said:
|-> >Are you a 442nd Regimental vet, or do you know someone who is?  If so, I'm
|-> >looking for you or them!
|-> >
|-> >. . . .  Our current assignmnet is to develop a unit of study on
|-> >WWII from the Japanese-American perspective.  Our unit must include a
|-> >variety of activities in music, art, mathematics, social studies, English,
|-> >science, etc.  My project. . . . is to provide students in
|-> >grades 5-9 with a general overview of the war from the Japanese and
|-> >Japanese-American perspectives.  I AM NOT A WWII EXPERT, NOR AM I TRYING
|-> >TO BE ONE, rather I am a teacher trying to bring another perspective of
|-> >the War to students in an interactive and interesting manner.
|->
|-> You might consider a showing of the film =Go for Broke=, which covers the
|-> activities of the 442nd from formation through return to the U.S. and which
|-> shows clearly the problems facing the men of the unit & the prejudice with
|-> which they were initially greeted.  I have the impression that the film
|-> is pretty factual, although I am no expert & Hollywood often gets things
|-> wrong (-:

        This is one of my favorite WWII movies. There is a sequence of
scenes showing the 442nd in Italy. In one scene, a company of Nisei
overrun a German strongpoint. A German officer is surrendering and
finds himself at the business ends of several M-1s each held by very
Japanese looking GI. He raises his hands and remarks: "I thought you
were on our side."
        If any unit deserves a good movie about it, the 442nd
Regimental Combat Team is it!!

                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

Sidney,

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the movie. It has been
many years since I have seen this one. Do you know if it is out on
video?

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 14:12:18 EST
From:    Crane Conrad LTC <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF 5 NOV 43

>> From: [email-masked]:
>> >   The 356th Fighter Squadron, 354th Fighter Group, arrives at Greenham Com
mo
>n,
>> > England from the U.S. with P-51's. The squadron will fly it's first missio
n
>on
>> > 1 Dec.
>>
>> In the movie, "Memphis Belle", P-51s escort the B-17s in July, 1943.
>> Is this artistic license or were P-51s available by then?  I don't
>> recall P-51s being mentioned in Jack's "50 YA" messages in July.
>
>P-51s were "around" but not very much in service.  P-51s did not
>provide escort at that time.  Escort would have been Spitfires or
>Hurricanes most of the time.  D model Mustangs also didn't appear
>until 1944.
>
>Artistic license.  In fact, the entire movie was artistic license.
>It was the pilot, I believe, of the Memphis Belle who made the
>comment (paraphrased) "All that stuff happened to us... In 25
>missions, that is..."
>
>The last mission was, in fact, a milk-run and as far as the big-screen
>is concerned today, horrendously dull and boring.
>
>--
>Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
>[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force
>

Robert,
     The last mission may have been a milk run, but William Wyler's movie of
it (WWII one, not the modern one by his daughter) is not dull or boring. In
fact,
it has some terrific pictures of damaged B-17s coming in to land, even from a
milk run.  I recommend it over the recent version.  It gets shown every once in
a while on educational channels.

                                                      LTC Con Crane
                                                      USMA

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 14:39:10 EST
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Guy Sajer

Bill,

Thanks for the address.  I'll keep it for future reference.

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 14:34:15 -0600
From:    WILLIAM HUBER - SCDR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 442nd

In your message of  8 Nov 1993 at 1325 CST, you write:
> Did I tell you folks about my son and his teacher (who was a 442nd daughter)?
>
> Anybody want to hear it?
>
> Lou
>

I'd love to hear anything about the 442nd RCT.  Each time I learn
something about that unit the Websters definition of "astonishing"
changes.

Bill Huber
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 14:37:54 CST
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF 5 NOV 43

> >
> >Artistic license.  In fact, the entire movie was artistic license.
> >It was the pilot, I believe, of the Memphis Belle who made the
> >comment (paraphrased) "All that stuff happened to us... In 25
> >missions, that is..."
> >
> >The last mission was, in fact, a milk-run and as far as the big-screen
> >is concerned today, horrendously dull and boring.
>
> Robert,
>      The last mission may have been a milk run, but William Wyler's movie of
> it (WWII one, not the modern one by his daughter) is not dull or boring. In
> fact,
> it has some terrific pictures of damaged B-17s coming in to land, even from a
> milk run.  I recommend it over the recent version.  It gets shown every once in
> a while on educational channels.

It's not boring to us.

But in Today's Hollywood, you wouldn't be able to make it because it
doesn't have mass appeal (it doesn't have a lot of explosions or
Arnold Schwartzenegger shooting up 400 Germans with just a zip gun :-).

I'm just happy that the documentary was made when it was.  That
guarantees it exists.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 14:57:24 CST
From:    "[email-masked]. --Scherrer,
         Tim A." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Japanese Americans, WWII, and the 442d

If anyone is interested, I know a reenactor who commands the reenacting
34th Infantry Dvision.  He is Japanese-American, and I believe a family
member like his dad or uncle served in the 442nd.  He reenacts dressed
as a member of the 442nd, and has participated with reunions of the
442nd.  I believe he lives in Westmont, IL (Chicago area).  I anyone
would like a specific address, please contact me directly.  Thanks, Tim

PS--this was the same guy who walked into a McDonald's after a Pacific
Theater reenactment in a Japanese uniform and received the comment from
another reenactor---"I hate holdouts!".  I thought it was funny.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 15:30:02 CST
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: Original "Memphis Belle"

Wyler's original film is on video for about $6 on low-cost stands.

Lou Coatney

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 15:53:23 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 442nd

Date sent:      Mon, 8 Nov 1993 11:18:30 CST
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject:        442nd
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

Did I tell you folks about my son and his teacher (who was a 442nd daughter)?

Anybody want to hear it?

Lou,

I always want to hear stories. Let'er rip!

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 16:02:15 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF,REF: German plans for attacking Sweden

Asad,

I will be posting some info for you tomorrow morning dealing with
German plans to attack Sweden. I am sorry for the delay, but have
been terribly busy.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 23:47:14 UTC
From:    Crazy Harry Anyone got a match? <[email-masked]>
Subject: HELP ME FIND TODD PARDY

I know it is unusual to post such requests to the mailing list, but does
anyone know the e-mail address of TODD PARDY?  He is supposedly one of the
top experts in the field of WWII technology.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to [email-masked].
Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to [email-masked].

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Nov 1993 21:40:06 -0330
From:    CHILL <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HELP ME FIND TODD PARDY

To Crazy Harry,

I'm Todd Pardy you can email me at [email-masked], as for the
expert part, I'm far from that Crazy Harry. Email me and we'll talk.

       From the bottom it looks like a steep incline, from the top
      another down hill slope of mine...but I know the equilibrium's
                                 there !
                        Mike Patton of Faith No More

On Mon, 8 Nov 1993, Crazy Harry Anyone got a match? wrote:

> I know it is unusual to post such requests to the mailing list, but does
> anyone know the e-mail address of TODD PARDY?  He is supposedly one of the
> top experts in the field of WWII technology.
>

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 7 Nov 1993 to 8 Nov 1993
***********************************************