Subject: WWII-L Digest - 10 Nov 1993 to 11 Nov 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 00:00:52 -0500

There are 45 messages totalling 1359 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. CAP ?
  2. US tank naming (3)
  3. Navajo code-talkers (4)
  4. Request to be added as a user of List WWII-L
  5. Japanese planes (2)
  6. tank naming (5)
  7. Message not deliverable
  8. RCAP
  9. David Irving (2)
 10. USAAF 11 NOV 43
 11. mystery (3)
 12. Re[2]: US tank naming
 13. GEN RE: WWII movies (3)
 14. RAF vs USAAF heavy bombardment (4)
 15. REF: Navajo Code Talkers
 16. USS New Jersey (2)
 17. GEN: Just a ramble.
 18. <No subject given> (2)
 19. REF/Re:  West Point Card Catalog
 20. CAP - question
 21. Alan Bullock
 22. REF/Re: West Point Card Catalog
 23. West Point Library On-Line -- Also available via Gopher
 24. Veterans' Day, 1993.
 25. David Irving -- Accountable and culpable!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 22:22:23 EST
From:    S214000 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: CAP ?

Doug,
I know FCLP is short for field carrier landing practice. That and CAP
are some of the few constants that have remained the same since WWII. I
can check my references when I get home.

Mike Wilson<[email-masked]>
Northern Michigan University
Marquette, Michigan

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 15:34:29 +1100
From:    Mick Fauchon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: US tank naming

        Denis,

                Quite so. What is interesting is that the "romantic hero"
image seems rather to have been transferred to the air and naval branches
--- on both sides.

                                                                Cheers,

                                                                Mick.

--                                                                          --
Mick Fauchon                          | Internet: [email-masked]
Reference Section, Auchmuty Library   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 215861
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA    | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

On Wed, 10 Nov 1993, Denis Ouellette, Indiana Univ wrote:

> Don't forget that the American Civil War generated a lot of interest
> in Europe at time, especially Britain.  Partly political, economic
> (Southern cotton feed the British textile mills - at least until they
> got from Egypt and India), most because sustained warfare with those
> kind of casulties had never been seen before.  Many of the battles
> were covered by British journalists and received front page coverage
> there.  I think it was one of the last wars that generated "romantic"
> heros - which certainly didn't happen for the British in WWI.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 23:43:53 EST
From:    S214000 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Navajo code-talkers

Can anyone tell me a little more about the use of Navajo code-talkers
during World War II? I was just reading a book, not related to the war,
that just used the code-talkers as an example. Thanks
Mike Wilson<[email-masked]>
Northern Michigan University

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 00:42:10 EST
From:    "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Request to be added as a user of List WWII-L

 Please add my name as a user of List WWII-L. I am a history instructor at
 Tidewater Community College, Portsmouth, VA., with a B.A. in History, and
 a M.A. in Military History and International Relations.

 Carl H. Wernke
 [email-masked]
 Tidewater Community College
 Portsmouth, VA

 Thanks,
        Carl Wernke

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 10:41:52 +0200
From:    Chris Scogings <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Japanese planes

Thanks, Emmanuel, for the list of plane names.  I was interested to see
names for planes that didn't exist.  Is there any reason for naming non-
existant aircraft?

Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Scogings                      Voice: (27) 331 955645
Computer Science Dept                 Fax: (27) 331 955599
University of Natal
Pietermaritzburg                   E-Mail:[email-masked]
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 04:10:38 EST
From:    "Denis Ouellette, Indiana Univ" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: tank naming

Richard-
The name Priest for the M7 SP gun came from the pulpit like machine gun
mount.  Bishop and Sexton I'm not sure of, but it seems like they just
continued the naming scheme. (Didn't Stalin call artillary the god of
war - so Priest seems like a good name).
The technical distinction of tanks for the British at the start of the
war was either cruisar tanks or infantry tanks. Neither really worked.
As they got a little better the distinction stopped and they tried to
produce something closer to true medium tank. The C names of course continue
to this day with the Centurian, Cheiftan and Challenger.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 05:06:18 EST
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Message not deliverable

        The British were very flamboyant in their naming of war materials.  They
 also enjoyed renaming American products put into British service.  For example,
 the American Skytrain was renamed the Dakota by the British.

        Just a thought...

                        Joe Pohlmann
                        Monsanto Port Plastics
                        Process Systems Engineer
                        pohlmann@ppclus

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 15:00:39 CST
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: RCAP

RCAP may also mean "Readied Combat Air Patrol."  John Lundstrom?

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 11:56:34 +0100
From:    Richard Harold Cummings <[email-masked]>
Subject: David Irving

I am sure that David Irving's name is known to many on this list.
So here is the latest on him:

 munich, nov. 10 (nca/ap) - police in munich say controversial
british historian david irving has been ordered to leave germany.

police say irving, who has claimed that millions of jews did not
die in nazi gas chambers, has been given until midnight tonight
(munich time) to leave the country. they say he has notified
authorities through his lawyer that he will comply with the
order.

police said authorities decided to expel irving after it became
known that he planned to take part in radical rightist meetings
in connection with the 55th anniversary of "crystal night." in
the november 9-10, 1938 pogrom, nazi supporters destroyed
thousands of jewish shops and synagogues.

the expulsion order against irving was issued by the munich
authority responsible for foreigners. it said irving's books and
lectures defame the dead and his activities had the effect of
damaging germany's reputation abroad.

--==oo00oo==--
[email-masked]
RFE/RL Inc
Munich,Germany

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 07:21:02 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 11 NOV 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 11 NOVEMBER 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  Beaufighter, Bristol
  F4U, Vought Corsair (USN)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt

CENTRAL PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Seventh Air Force): Japanese aircraft
bomb Nanumea Island in the Ellice Islands, hitting the airfield and destroying
or damaging several airplanes, including 1 B-24.
  The 26th and 98th Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy), 11th Bombardment Group
(Heavy), transfer from Wheeler Field and Mokuleia, Territory of Hawaii
respectively to Nukufetau Island in the Ellice Islands with B-24's. They will
fly their first combat mission on 14 Nov.
  The 431st Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 11th Bombardment Group (Heavy),
transfers from Hickam Field, Territory of Hawaii to Funafuti Atoll in the
Ellice Islands. They will fly their first mission on 13 Nov.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 6 B-24's bomb the Burma Road about
375 miles (600 km) W of Tungling, producing a landslide and badly damaging the
road; 6 P-40's S of Yoyang knock out a gun emplacement and hit a radio
station, barracks, and hostels in the area; 8 more P-40's, on armed
reconnaissance in the Li-Chou-Ching-Shih area, strafe a pontoon bridge and
troops, and sink a river steamer, a motorboat, and several small supply boats.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ANTISUBMARINE OPERATIONS (First Air Force): The 479th Antisubmarine Group
and it's 4th, 6th, 19th and 22d Antisubmarine Squadrons (Heavy) are disbanded
at Podington, England.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): VIII Bomber Command Mission 127:
Two areas in Germany are targetted.
  1. 57 of 167 B-17's hit the marshalling yard at Munster at 1408 hours; 1
B-17 hits Cleve; the rest abort the mission because of bad weather that
hinders assembly; they claim 10-0-2 Luftwaffe aircraft; 4 B-17's are lost and
27 damaged; casualties are 4 WIA and 40 MIA.
  2. 180 B-17's, including 5 PFF aircraft, dispatched to Wesel, abort the
mission over the English Channel due to assembly difficulties and the presence
of heavy frontal cloud; 1 B-17 is damaged; no casualties.
  The two missions above are escorted to 59 P-38's and 342 P-47's; the P-47's
claim 8-1-2 Luftwaffe aircraft; 2 P-47's are lost and 1 is damaged; casualties
are 2 MIA.
  VIII Bomber Command Mission 128: 1 PFF B-17 is dispatched to Emmerich,
Germany but hits Rees at 2057 hours in an Oboe test.
  VIII Bomber Command Mission 129: 1 PFF B-17 hits Emmerich at 2115 in an Oboe
test.
  The 406th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 1st Bombardment Division, transfers
to Alconbury, England with B-24's. The squadron will begin flying CARPETBAGGER
missions on 5 Jan 44.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 157 B-26's bomb military
installations and targets of opportunity in the Cherbourg, France area,
mainly at Martinvast.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In France, 28 B-24's attack the
Annecy ball bearing plant and the viaduct at Antheor.
  HQ 47th Bombardment Wing (Medium) transfers from Hammamet, Tunisia to
Manduria, Italy.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, US and Royal Air Force
(RAF) light bombers and fighter-bombers, in support of the US Fifth and
British Eighth Armies, hit troop and gun concentrations and communications in
the Rocca and Palena areas; other Northwest African Tactical Air Force (NATAF)
aircraft bomb the town of Rocca, Bussi sul Tirino explosive works near Popoli,
and docks at Civitavecchia, and strafe strongpoints at Roccaraso and Atessa;
fighters hit motor transport in the coastal area between the Sangro and
Pescara Rivers.
  The 414th Night Fighter Squadron, 63d Fighter Wing, transfers from Rerhaia,
Algeria to Elmas, Sardinia with Beaufighters.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force): In the Solomon
Islands, a few B-25's and US Navy F4U's strafe barges and shore installations
in Matchin Bay on Bougainville Island. B-24's join Fifth Air Force, US Navy
carrier aircraft, and Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) airplanes in attack on
shipping in Rabaul harbor on New Britain Island; this is the Thirteenth's
first strike on Rabaul. Escorting fighters claim 17 Japanese fighters shot
down while the bombers claim 5.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force): B-24's bomb Lakunai
airfield on New Britain Island. In New Guinea, P-39's strafe Bogadjim and
B-25's hit the Madang area.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 07:58:11 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: US tank naming

>On Tue, 9 Nov 1993 16:08:54 EST Larry & Kim Jewell said:
>>TWIHI (The Way I Heard It) was that a British tanker drove a recently arrived
>>Stuart around for a while, and pronounced that it was a "real honey" so they
>>named them Honey tanks. I've always thought the nicknames had more recognition
>>value than the "official" names.
>
> Crisp's driver, reported in =Brazen Chariots=.

  Thanks, I knew I'd read it somewhere, but lost track of the source. Do you
have the author, publisher, etc.?

> ken koester
> [email-masked]

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 08:41:44 EST
From:    Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: tank naming

> [from R. Kaplan] . . . What I'd like to know, is why the British came
> up with "Priest" and "Bishop" for self-propelled guns?

I believe this started when they received the M7 105mm SP Howitzer in
North Africa.  It had a distictive machine gun sponson at the front of
the hull, which might make one think of a  church pulpit.  This probably
started the trend when they called it the Priest, succeeded by the
British built Bishop and Canadian built Sexton.

  __|  __|  __|  |  Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
_|   _|   _|     |
 |       | |     |  Computer Sciences Corp., Integrated Systems Div.
 ___|____/ ___|  |  304 W. Rte. 38, Moorestown, NJ 08057

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 07:01:27 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: tank naming

Richard,

The name of that movie with Cagney that portrayed Admiral Halsey was
"The Gallant Hours". A great movie but a lousy soundtrack!

>From what I have read of the naming of the "Priest" was that its
protruding turret reminded the namer of a pulpit, hence the name.

The "Bishop", I will have to research.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 08:59:59 EST-500
From:    Carol Owen Bell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: mystery

>
> There is a book in print that tells one how to get locate anyone who
> had served at any time in the armed forces. I will get that info for
> you.
>
> Terry
>
> Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
> P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
> fax 806-371-5370
>

    What is this book?

Carol Bell
University of Tennessee-Knoxville
Office of University Relations
News Center

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 15:29:00 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Japanese planes

On Thu, 11 Nov 1993, Chris Scogings wrote:

> Thanks, Emmanuel, for the list of plane names.  I was interested to see
> names for planes that didn't exist.  Is there any reason for naming non-
> existant aircraft?

Simply bad intelligence. Little was known about Japanese aircraft when the
war began -- maybe they thought that it was all old junk, so why bother?
Code names were also given to numerous German and American aircraft
thought be in Japanese service, again based on the assumption that the
Japanese were incapable of designing high-performance aircraft. Reports to
the contrary -- from Chennault, among others -- were filed.

Emmanuel.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 09:55:16 EST
From:    Chuck McCormick <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: US tank naming

On Wed, 10 Nov 1993, Denis Ouellette, Indiana Univ wrote:

> Don't forget that the American Civil War generated a lot of interest
> in Europe at time, especially Britain.  Partly political, economic
> (Southern cotton feed the British textile mills - at least until they
> got from Egypt and India), most because sustained warfare with those
> kind of casulties had never been seen before.  Many of the battles
> were covered by British journalists and received front page coverage
> there.  I think it was one of the last wars that generated "romantic"
> heros - which certainly didn't happen for the British in WWI.

You might also keep in mind that many American Army Bases (Forts) are named
after Civil War generals.  Perhaps the British were aware of this practice from
visits to the states?

Chuck
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 06:57:31 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Navajo code-talkers

Mike,

>Can anyone tell me a little more about the use of Navajo code-talkers
>during World War II? I was just reading a book, not related to the war,
>that just used the code-talkers as an example. Thanks
>Mike Wilson<[email-masked]>
>Northern Michigan University

The Smithsonian Institute Magazine had an article on them sometime within
the last 2-3 months.

John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Math and Computer Science               [email-masked]
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 10:02:41 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Navajo code-talkers

S214000 writes:
|->
|-> Can anyone tell me a little more about the use of Navajo code-talkers
|-> during World War II? I was just reading a book, not related to the war,
|-> that just used the code-talkers as an example. Thanks

        Well, I'm at work and all the interesting books are at home.
I've seen several books on the Navajo code-talkers. It was a group
thought up by a white guy (the son of a missionary, I think) who grew
up in Dinetah, Navajo country. He talked the Marines into recruiting
young Navajo men for code duty. They developed an actual code that
consisted of Navajo words that could be rapidly transmitted and
decoded, usually by voice. The Navajos served in the Pacific and had
some pretty amazing experiences on all the hot islands.
        There is a pictorial book that came out last year. The title
is something like _Navajo Warriers_. I also have a more text oriented
book that tells the story of the whole project. I'll try to post
citations later.
        Now, I can't resist reminding everyone of the Thunderbirds'
version of the same thing. This actually has had a little more
exposure than the NCT group. At least, the Cherokee communicators from
Oklahoma have appeared in a hollywood movie. They were used in Italy
to foil German wiretaps of US tactical phone lines. As far as I know,
the Thunderbird Div.'s use did not involve inventing an actual code.
They merely put a Cherokee speaker on each end of the phone line and let
them give details in Tsa-la-gi. Both the Germans and Japanese
apparently found breaking this system impossible. Indian warriors from
the Navajo, Cherokee, Osage, Creek, Choctaw, and many other tribes
made a valuable contribution to the US WWII effort both as talkers and
as fighters.
                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 10:07:05 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN RE: WWII movies

Richard Kaplan writes:
|->
|-> My vote for better movie about the PTO is the one with Jimmy Cagney portraying
|-> Admiral Halsey; but I forget the title (is it Above and Beyond)?

        I like this one too. But if the question is "best", I'll have
to go with _Tora! Tora! Tora!_. The intermixing of American and
Japanese casts was great. And I'm a fan of Yamamura Soh. I think he's
a pretty good actor.

                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 08:50:21 -0400
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RAF vs USAAF heavy bombardment

A student friend of mine has been tasked with defending in a debate
the RAF's heavy bombardment tactics in Europe, while others in the
class will defend the USAAF's tactics.  I suggested to him that he
should be prepared to discuss target selection, bombing tonnage and
accuracy, civilian casualties and effect on morale, and aircraft
defensive capabilities and loss rates.  He has a week or two to
prepare for the debate.

I suggested that he read Alexander McKee's book "Dresden 1945:  The
Devil's Tinderbox" for insight on what was probably the most
infamous of the RAF's raids.

Anyone care to impart pearls of wisdom on these, or other related
topics?  You can reply directly to me if you wish, my friend is
not on the net.

Bullet statements are prefered over actual bullets!  :-)

Dennis E. Sparks
[email-masked]
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 10:15:56 EST
From:    Robert E George <[email-masked]>
Subject: REF: Navajo Code Talkers

"Navajo Code Talkers: a few good men"
Smithsonian, August 1993, Volume XXIV, Number 5
pp. 34 - 45
text by Bruce Watson, photos by Kenji Kawano

Rob George

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 11:40:21 EST
From:    "William B. Thacker" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: tank naming

Richard Kaplan writes:

>         From what I remember reading about British habits in naming their
> vehicles, the pattern depended on the tank's role.  Recon, or real armor.
> The pattern I recall involved light to medium tanks with C names: Cromwell,
> Crusader and Comet.  The Churchill obviously doesn't fit here, but that may
> have been a popular rather than official designation.

Correct.  The way it seems to have worked is that all Cruiser tanks (what
most armies would have called medium tanks, but with an emphasis on speed
over armor and armament) began with C.  The earliers cruisers, A10 and A13,
never got names.  There followed the Covenanter, Crusader, Centaur,
Cromwell, Comet, and Challenger (WWII, not the modern one), among others.

Infantry tanks and light tanks apparently had no convention.  Matilda was
named after a cartoon duck because of its awkward appearance.  Vickers
tanks were named with V-words; Valentine, Valiant, etc.  The Churchill's
name was apparently a morale-driven decision, and Black Prince would have
been a variant had it got to production.

SP artillery got religious names; Bishop (25pr on a Valentine hull),
Priest, Deacon, Sexton.

The only named Light Tank that comes to mind is the airborne Tetrach (a
term used for a Roman "prince"). Of course, British light tank development
halted with the Mk VI, anyway, so was done before names started to be used.

Armored cars were named after either the manufacturer (Humber, Daimler,
etc), or, later, after dogs  (Staghound, Dingo, Boarhound, Greyhound).

Archer seems to have been a once-off name (17pr mounted backwards on a
Valentine chassis), but then, both it and Achilles (17-pr on an M10) start
with A.  A = Antitank?  I don't see any pattern or reason for Firefly.

With the introduction of the Centurion at the end of the war, the Infantry
and Cruiser tanks officially merged.  Apparently they opted to keep with
the cruiser naming convention, hence to Chieftain and Challenger.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker             AT&T Network Systems       attmail!att!cbemf!wbt
(614) 860-5294           Columbus, Ohio              [email-masked]
                      Humpty Dumpty was pushed!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 12:09:31 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USS New Jersey

For those of you in New Jersey plus eastern Pennsylvania, southern New
York, Delaware and perhaps Maryland and Connecticut, the New Jersey
Network, our state PBS stations, is broadcasting a 30 minute show
tonight, Thursday, November 11, about the battleship New Jersey.
According to the TV schedule in the NY Times, the shows will air at
8:30-9 PM and repeat at 10-10:30 PM.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 11:11:23 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: mystery

Date sent:      Thu, 11 Nov 1993 08:59:59 EST-500
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Carol Owen Bell <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: mystery
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

>
> There is a book in print that tells one how to get locate anyone who
> had served at any time in the armed forces. I will get that info for
> you.
>
   What is this book?

Carol,

Thanks for answering and for your patience. I will get that for you
today. It just slipped my mind that I was going to get that for you.
I am sorry about that, and will comply today.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 11:13:21 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: tank naming

Date sent:      Thu, 11 Nov 1993 04:10:38 EST
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           "Denis Ouellette, Indiana Univ" <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: tank naming
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

Richard-
The name Priest for the M7 SP gun came from the pulpit like machine gun
mount.  Bishop and Sexton I'm not sure of, but it seems like they just
continued the naming scheme. (Didn't Stalin call artillary the god of
war - so Priest seems like a good name).
The technical distinction of tanks for the British at the start of the
war was either cruisar tanks or infantry tanks. Neither really worked.
As they got a little better the distinction stopped and they tried to
produce something closer to true medium tank. The C names of course continue
to this day with the Centurian, Cheiftan and Challenger.

Denis,

For my part, thanks for the post. Stalin was quoted as saying that
"Artillery is the queen of the battlefield."

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 11:15:17 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: US tank naming

Date sent:      Thu, 11 Nov 1993 07:58:11 EST
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: US tank naming
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

>On Tue, 9 Nov 1993 16:08:54 EST Larry & Kim Jewell said:
>>TWIHI (The Way I Heard It) was that a British tanker drove a recently arrived
>>Stuart around for a while, and pronounced that it was a "real honey" so they
>>named them Honey tanks. I've always thought the nicknames had more recognition
>>value than the "official" names.
>
> Crisp's driver, reported in =Brazen Chariots=.

  Thanks, I knew I'd read it somewhere, but lost track of the source. Do you
have the author, publisher, etc.?

Larry,

I have that book in my library. It is a paperback by Ballantine
Books, and it appeared in the mid to late 60's. I will have to get
you the author's name. I read it many years ago.

I will get back to you, if someone else doesn't provide the info
first.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 11:24:50 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: David Irving

Date sent:      Thu, 11 Nov 1993 11:56:34 +0100
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Richard Harold Cummings <[email-masked]>
Organization:   Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty Inc.
Subject:        David Irving
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

Richard,

I was aware that David Irving was regarded as a radical of the right,
but I wasn't  aware that he had "flipped out", as this article
suggests. I can't believe that he has taken that position! :-(. I
have read several of his books, and have been most impressed with his
research, particularly those of his earlier works.

What is this world coming to? How can anyone even remotely imagine
that such an horrendous act against humanity didn't occur? I guess it
takes all kinds.

I heard quite a bit about this growing attitude in Germany that the
Holocaust didn't happen or was the "greatest hoax of the 20th century"
while on a visit to Germany this past summer. This attitude was
perpetrated, as I understand it, by non-German's. If anyone has
another slant on this, I would be most interested to hear it. Perhaps
it is all connected to the rise of the radical right in that country.
I just don't know.

However, with regard to David Irving, I can't believe that he has
fallen so low and into such disrepute. The German Government is right
to ask him to leave the country, and his adherence to such an
attitude is a disgrace to all concerned, and it does no honor to his
credentials.

Terry

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sure that David Irving's name is known to many on this list.
So here is the latest on him:

 munich, nov. 10 (nca/ap) - police in munich say controversial
british historian david irving has been ordered to leave germany.

police say irving, who has claimed that millions of jews did not
die in nazi gas chambers, has been given until midnight tonight
(munich time) to leave the country. they say he has notified
authorities through his lawyer that he will comply with the
order.

police said authorities decided to expel irving after it became
known that he planned to take part in radical rightist meetings
in connection with the 55th anniversary of "crystal night." in
the november 9-10, 1938 pogrom, nazi supporters destroyed
thousands of jewish shops and synagogues.

the expulsion order against irving was issued by the munich
authority responsible for foreigners. it said irving's books and
lectures defame the dead and his activities had the effect of
damaging germany's reputation abroad.

--==oo00oo==--
[email-masked]
RFE/RL Inc
Munich,Germany

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 11:45:23 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: mystery

Date sent:      Thu, 11 Nov 1993 08:59:59 EST-500
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Carol Owen Bell <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: mystery
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

Carol,

Here is the information on the book, I had mentioned earlier to you.

    How to Locate Anyone Who is or has been in the Military by Lt.-
Col. Michael S. Johnson, Military Information Enterprises at Fort Sam
Houston. ISBN 1-877639-07-9.

Hope this helps.

Terry

 >
> There is a book in print that tells one how to get locate anyone who
> had served at any time in the armed forces. I will get that info for
> you.
>
> Terry
>
> Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
> P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
> fax 806-371-5370
>

    What is this book?

Carol Bell
University of Tennessee-Knoxville
Office of University Relations
News Center

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 12:23:38 CST
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: Just a ramble.

It was almost to the day, but in checking the data plate, we noticed that
yesterday (Veteran's Day -1 day) was the 49th birthday of the B-25 airframe
that would become Miss Mitchell.

I hope I have that much energy when _my_ "airframe" pushes 50.  :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 13:24:08 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

>From kitchel Thu Nov 11 10:02:40 1993 remote from barracuda
Subject: Re: Navajo code-talkers
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 10:02:40 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "S214000" at Nov 10, 93 11:43:53 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1999
Sender: kitchel

S214000 writes:
|->
|-> Can anyone tell me a little more about the use of Navajo code-talkers
|-> during World War II? I was just reading a book, not related to the war,
|-> that just used the code-talkers as an example. Thanks

        Well, I'm at work and all the interesting books are at home.
I've seen several books on the Navajo code-talkers. It was a group
thought up by a white guy (the son of a missionary, I think) who grew
up in Dinetah, Navajo country. He talked the Marines into recruiting
young Navajo men for code duty. They developed an actual code that
consisted of Navajo words that could be rapidly transmitted and
decoded, usually by voice. The Navajos served in the Pacific and had
some pretty amazing experiences on all the hot islands.
        There is a pictorial book that came out last year. The title
is something like _Navajo Warriers_. I also have a more text oriented
book that tells the story of the whole project. I'll try to post
citations later.
        Now, I can't resist reminding everyone of the Thunderbirds'
version of the same thing. This actually has had a little more
exposure than the NCT group. At least, the Cherokee communicators from
Oklahoma have appeared in a hollywood movie. They were used in Italy
to foil German wiretaps of US tactical phone lines. As far as I know,
the Thunderbird Div.'s use did not involve inventing an actual code.
They merely put a Cherokee speaker on each end of the phone line and let
them give details in Tsa-la-gi. Both the Germans and Japanese
apparently found breaking this system impossible. Indian warriors from
the Navajo, Cherokee, Osage, Creek, Choctaw, and many other tribes
made a valuable contribution to the US WWII effort both as talkers and
as fighters.
                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 13:24:24 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

>From kitchel Thu Nov 11 10:07:04 1993 remote from barracuda
Subject: GEN RE: WWII movies
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 10:07:04 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "Richard Kaplan" at Nov 10, 93 08:41:15 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 671
Sender: kitchel

Richard Kaplan writes:
|->
|-> My vote for better movie about the PTO is the one with Jimmy Cagney portraying
|-> Admiral Halsey; but I forget the title (is it Above and Beyond)?

        I like this one too. But if the question is "best", I'll have
to go with _Tora! Tora! Tora!_. The intermixing of American and
Japanese casts was great. And I'm a fan of Yamamura Soh. I think he's
a pretty good actor.

                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 13:39:39 EST
From:    Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
Subject: REF/Re:  West Point Card Catalog

Has anybody been able to connect to the West Point library card
catalog per the earlier message.  I've tried telnet'ing to the explicit
address 129.29.90.100, and also tried telnet'ing to LIBRARY.USMA.EDU,
which I got from GOPHER and which tries the above address as well as
two others.  I always get a "host unreachable" message for each address
and never connect.  Am I missing something, or has nobody else been
able to connect?

  __|  __|  __|  |  Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
_|   _|   _|     |
 |       | |     |  Computer Sciences Corp., Integrated Systems Div.
 ___|____/ ___|  |  304 W. Rte. 38, Moorestown, NJ 08057

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 11:34:33 -0700
From:    Doug Cahoon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: CAP - question

Thanks to all that have responded to my question about
Abbreviations in my uncle's flight log book. It has been
very helpful. Here is what I have heard so far:

I think everyone agrees that CAP = Combat Air Patrol
others are...
Z = Zone or Zebra (now Zulu, ie Greenwich Mean Time)
JACK= Code name for Japanese aircraft, J2M Raiden
  fighter-interceptor, or JACC (Joint Airborne Communications
  Center), or Jack' was Mitsubishi J2M Raiden.
CL = Carrier Landing, or USN designation for a light cruise.
FCLP= Field Carrier Landing Practice,
RCAP=Readied Combat Air Patrol, or Recon Combat Air Patrol, or
  Rescue CAP (to protect downed pilots), or RCA: Reach Cruising Altitude.
GB= General Board?

I think that is all of them. Some make perfect sense. But it should be
remembered that these abbreviations were logged in his log book.
In the front of the book he has a translation for some of the "Character
of Flight" codes:
B-1 = Instructions elimination flight training.
B =                                    "             "          "
CK= Checks A, B, C, etc.
E= Familiarization.
F= Gunnery
G= Bombing
J = Scouting
K = Tactical
L = Navigational
M = Transportation
N = Ferrying
P = Photographic
R = Test
T = Administration
U = Extended
V= Instrument
W = Emergency
X = Communication
Y = Night Flying (red ink)

He has listed many of the training type codes during his
stateside training, then he adds others that are not
listed (ones asked about, and listed above) once
he is aboard ship. He also lists in his book Cat. Shot
in the remarks area. In one place he spells out Catapult
Shot. Why would he mention this... I assume they did not
use this method unless the top of the carrier was full???

Any other thoughts would be helpful.

Thanks again,

Doug Cahoon

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 12:43:02 -0600
From:    Sandra Torres <[email-masked]>
Subject: Alan Bullock

My name is Sandra Torres and I am new to the list.  I've been lurking for
about a week enjoying all the information, but now I need some serious help.
Can anyone refer me to any analysis/criticism of _Study in Tyranny_.
I have searched several indexes and have not come up with much yet.  Its
such an incredible book, there has to be s/t out there about it.  I am
working against a deadline that has already passed, so the sooner the better.
E-mail me directly or to the list if s/o else might be interested.  Either
way I will be forever grateful.

Sandra Torres <[email-masked]>
History Dept./SMU
Dallas, TX

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 14:48:32 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN RE: WWII movies

kitchel writes:
>From kitchel Thu Nov 11 10:07:04 1993
Subject: GEN RE: WWII movies
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 10:07:04 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "Richard Kaplan" at Nov 10, 93 08:41:15 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 671

Richard Kaplan writes:
|->
|-> My vote for better movie about the PTO is the one with Jimmy Cagney portraying
|-> Admiral Halsey; but I forget the title (is it Above and Beyond)?

        I like this one too. But if the question is "best", I'll have
to go with _Tora! Tora! Tora!_. The intermixing of American and
Japanese casts was great. And I'm a fan of Yamamura Soh. I think he's
a pretty good actor.

                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 14:48:53 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Navajo code-talkers

kitchel writes:
>From kitchel Thu Nov 11 10:02:40 1993
Subject: Re: Navajo code-talkers
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 10:02:40 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "S214000" at Nov 10, 93 11:43:53 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1999

S214000 writes:
|->
|-> Can anyone tell me a little more about the use of Navajo code-talkers
|-> during World War II? I was just reading a book, not related to the war,
|-> that just used the code-talkers as an example. Thanks

        Well, I'm at work and all the interesting books are at home.
I've seen several books on the Navajo code-talkers. It was a group
thought up by a white guy (the son of a missionary, I think) who grew
up in Dinetah, Navajo country. He talked the Marines into recruiting
young Navajo men for code duty. They developed an actual code that
consisted of Navajo words that could be rapidly transmitted and
decoded, usually by voice. The Navajos served in the Pacific and had
some pretty amazing experiences on all the hot islands.
        There is a pictorial book that came out last year. The title
is something like _Navajo Warriers_. I also have a more text oriented
book that tells the story of the whole project. I'll try to post
citations later.
        Now, I can't resist reminding everyone of the Thunderbirds'
version of the same thing. This actually has had a little more
exposure than the NCT group. At least, the Cherokee communicators from
Oklahoma have appeared in a hollywood movie. They were used in Italy
to foil German wiretaps of US tactical phone lines. As far as I know,
the Thunderbird Div.'s use did not involve inventing an actual code.
They merely put a Cherokee speaker on each end of the phone line and let
them give details in Tsa-la-gi. Both the Germans and Japanese
apparently found breaking this system impossible. Indian warriors from
the Navajo, Cherokee, Osage, Creek, Choctaw, and many other tribes
made a valuable contribution to the US WWII effort both as talkers and
as fighters.
                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 15:07:14 EST
From:    Crane Conrad LTC <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: RAF vs USAAF heavy bombardment

>A student friend of mine has been tasked with defending in a debate
>the RAF's heavy bombardment tactics in Europe, while others in the
>class will defend the USAAF's tactics.  I suggested to him that he
>should be prepared to discuss target selection, bombing tonnage and
>accuracy, civilian casualties and effect on morale, and aircraft
>defensive capabilities and loss rates.  He has a week or two to
>prepare for the debate.
>
>I suggested that he read Alexander McKee's book "Dresden 1945:  The
>Devil's Tinderbox" for insight on what was probably the most
>infamous of the RAF's raids.
>
>Anyone care to impart pearls of wisdom on these, or other related
>topics?  You can reply directly to me if you wish, my friend is
>not on the net.
>
>Bullet statements are prefered over actual bullets!  :-)
>
>Dennis E. Sparks
>[email-masked]
>Lexington, Kentucky
>

Dennis,
     I have two suggestions for those defending the positions:

     For AAF, read my book (BOMBS, CITIES, AND CIVILIANS) and Ken Werrell's Dec
1986 article in Journal of American History.

     For RAF, read John Terraine's A TIME FOR COURAGE.

     I apologize for plugging my book, but to some extent it defends US
tactics, and it is about the only recent book to do so.  The RAF side might
find it useful, also, as I outline why the AAF was very understanding of the
RAF position.

                                        LTC Conrad Crane
                                        USMA

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 15:12:46 EST
From:    Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN RE: WWII movies

How about "In Harm's Way"?  Sure, it's a lot of pro US propaganda, but
it does cover a lot of the Pacific theater in entertaining fashion.  But
my favorite Pacific theater movie has to be "The Wackiest Ship in the Army",
closely followed by "Mr. Roberts", or maybe vice versa.  B^)

  __|  __|  __|  |  Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
_|   _|   _|     |
 |       | |     |  Computer Sciences Corp., Integrated Systems Div.
 ___|____/ ___|  |  304 W. Rte. 38, Moorestown, NJ 08057

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 17:38:49 EST
From:    Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USS New Jersey

I saw this show when it first aired.  It's worth a look.

I work with a man who served a couple years on the NJ maybe 6-7 years
ago (?).  To hear him talk, it's a shame we don't build them that way
anymore!

  __|  __|  __|  |  Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
_|   _|   _|     |
 |       | |     |  Computer Sciences Corp., Integrated Systems Div.
 ___|____/ ___|  |  304 W. Rte. 38, Moorestown, NJ 08057

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Nov 1993 07:12:00 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: REF/Re: West Point Card Catalog

On Thu, 11 Nov 1993, Charles Reace wrote:

> Has anybody been able to connect to the West Point library card
> catalog per the earlier message.  I've tried telnet'ing to the explicit
> address 129.29.90.100, and also tried telnet'ing to LIBRARY.USMA.EDU,
> which I got from GOPHER and which tries the above address as well as
> two others.  I always get a "host unreachable" message for each address
> and never connect.  Am I missing something, or has nobody else been
> able to connect?
>
>   __|  __|  __|  |  Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
> _|   _|   _|     |
>  |       | |     |  Computer Sciences Corp., Integrated Systems Div.
>  ___|____/ ___|  |  304 W. Rte. 38, Moorestown, NJ 08057
>
I got "No Route to Host".   Any solution?

Peter E. Beal

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 14:14:10 CST
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: West Point Library On-Line -- Also available via Gopher

As well as many other major libraries' catalogs.  When the statewide Illinois
  online catalog crashes, I go to another state to use theirs and find
  standard shelf numbers (at least for recent books).

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 14:35:31 CST
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Veterans' Day, 1993.

A nice post, Larry, even for those of us who only defended the Ft. Bliss
  Post Laundry with our very lives, Christmas Eve, 1967.

So why am I working?

Lou Coatney

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 18:09:34 CST
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: David Irving -- Accountable and culpable!

'Nice to see SOMEone nailing him for historical falsification.  How about
  historians?

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 18:45:46 CST
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: RAF vs USAAF heavy bombardment

Dennis,

     Extenuating considerations on behalf of British "area bombing:"

1. The Germans had indiscriminately terror-bombed them (and countless other,
  more innocent, peoples).

2. Feeling the consequences of mass (terror-)bombing themselves was the one
  best way for the Germans to learn what the war they were waging on others
  was really like.  (Bellicosity is difficult when you are trying to put
  the fire in your own house out.)

3. According to Speer, the Hamburg firebombing DID break the will of the
  Hamburgers for some months and Germany's morale could have faltered if
  Germany's morale could have faltered if the mass bombing had been
  extended to other cities.

4. Hitting back in kind was vital to Allied morale.

5. The Germans were forced to expend resources to the extent that we had a
  Second Front (which the Soviets were screaming for) in the air.

More, later.

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 20:26:06 EST
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: RAF vs USAAF heavy bombardment

sign off WWII-L

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 10 Nov 1993 to 11 Nov 1993
*************************************************