Subject: WWII-L Digest - 27 Nov 1993 to 28 Nov 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 00:00:33 -0500

There are 5 messages totalling 148 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Vichy France
  2. Living History -- WW I, in the air. (4)

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Date:    Sun, 28 Nov 1993 16:20:03 EST
From:    "William B. Thacker" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Vichy France

> I have often wondered why the German Navy or Hitler, if you will, had
> not simply required the French to hand over its fleet to the Germans
> as part of the surrender package, notwithstanding the possible
> consequence of scuttling.

The French demanded to maintain control over their fleet as a term of the
armistice.  It was very important to them; in part, as their last
effective weapon, and in part because of their colonial empire.  It offered
them their only tool to control their destiny.

Germany, on the other hand, probably saw little value in the French Navy.
Certainly their own fleet had been relatively neglected; through this time
period many of their shipbuilding programs were being delayed for other
priorities.  It would take a major commitment simply to train enough German
sailors to man the French fleet.  I doubt the Army or Luftwaffe much
relished the idea of giving that manpower.

I suspect that there was also a bit of the "not invented here" syndrome
involved.  Who wants gunky old French ships when we can build nice,
efficient new German ships?  Certainly if today's US Navy was offered the
entire formerly-Soviet fleet, they would decline and request new American-
built ships instead.  To the OKM, the French fleet might have been seen as
the death of German shipbuilding.

So I suspect that none of the German services pushed hard for control of
the French Fleet.  When the French demanded it so adamantly, it became an
easy concession, one that showed Germany as a magnanimous victor.

Certainly any realistic analysis would have to conclude that Germany had
little ability to actually sieze the french fleet.  Had they demanded its
surrender (or tried to grab it despite the terms of the armistice) most of
it could have sailed to British ports to fight on, together with loyal
crews of experienced sailors.  (Note, then, that the French fleet could help
Britain more than it could help Germany, because the British would gain many
of the crews as well as the ships.)  I'm sure the German leadership was
equally aware of this problem when they signed the armistice.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker             AT&T Network Systems       attmail!att!cbemf!wbt
(614) 860-5294           Columbus, Ohio              [email-masked]
                      Humpty Dumpty was pushed!

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Date:    Sun, 28 Nov 1993 18:33:48 -0600
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Living History -- WW I, in the air.

'Visited Rheinbeck Aerodrome (north of Poughkeepsie) in August.

Many enthusiasts spend lots of money reconstructing vintage warbirds.

I have often wondered:  Why not then actually FIGHT (with) them.

While duelling is illegal in most countries, surely there must be
  others who would be happy to host "wealthy aerial sportsmen."

After all, ISN'T Man the "most dangerous game?"

Lou Coatney (speaking/keying as an individual)

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Date:    Sun, 28 Nov 1993 20:23:36 CST
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Living History -- WW I, in the air.

> 'Visited Rheinbeck Aerodrome (north of Poughkeepsie) in August.
>
> Many enthusiasts spend lots of money reconstructing vintage warbirds.
>
> I have often wondered:  Why not then actually FIGHT (with) them.
>
> While duelling is illegal in most countries, surely there must be
>   others who would be happy to host "wealthy aerial sportsmen."
>
> After all, ISN'T Man the "most dangerous game?"

Fight?  (Mock)  With the aircraft?!

Shudder.

After 12 years of restoration with a total value exceeding $5 million
to rebuild a B-25, the last thing I want to do is see it put into a
position where an "oops-aw-shit" happens.

Oof.

While we may do a lot that "pushes" the aircraft, everything is completely
safe and as far away from an unexpected occurrence as possible.  I leave
the aerial combat to the various fighter squadrons around the country
with their Marchettis, etc.

(Though we have been presented with the concept of "arming" our B-25
with lasers on the guns to "defend" it from the attacking bogies...
The amount of fun possible makes the mind spin... :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

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Date:    Sun, 28 Nov 1993 21:04:18 CST
From:    Steve Alvin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Living History -- WW I, in the air.

I also would expect that the insurance rates would go through
the roof!

One of the newest "sports" for those with a lot of disposable
income is a Top Gun school for fighter want to be's in which
you use prop planes for dogfights etc.  I'm sure some one on
the list knows more about them than I do!

--
Steve Alvin
[email-masked]

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Date:    Sun, 28 Nov 1993 22:06:48 CST
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Living History -- WW I, in the air.

> I also would expect that the insurance rates would go through
> the roof!
>
> One of the newest "sports" for those with a lot of disposable
> income is a Top Gun school for fighter want to be's in which
> you use prop planes for dogfights etc.  I'm sure some one on
> the list knows more about them than I do!

Those run about $650/person.  The flight is anywhere from 45-60 minutes,
but there is a briefing, debriefing, video, all that stuff, so it takes
considerably longer than just the flight.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

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End of WWII-L Digest - 27 Nov 1993 to 28 Nov 1993
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