Subject: WWII-L Digest - 9 Nov 1993 to 10 Nov 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 00:00:14 -0500

There are 31 messages totalling 1074 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Naming of Japanese Planes (2)
  2. GEN: "Crystal Night" (2)
  3. Long Lance Torpedo
  4. USAAF 10 NOV 43
  5. US tank naming (6)
  6. CAP - question (4)
  7. INF: Combat!
  8. GEN/EDU: WWII and Japanese/Japanese Americans (3)
  9. British and names
 10. Navy Termn (2)
 11. Addr: James Jones
 12. <No subject given>
 13. Tank Naming
 14. CAP - QUESTION
 15. West Point Library On-Line (repeat)
 16. tank naming
 17. Veterans' Day, 1993.
 18. For Veterans'/Remembrance Day.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 00:00:15 EST
From:    "Denis Ouellette, Indiana Univ" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Naming of Japanese Planes

I don't recall the original post, but I think someone had a question
about the naming of Japanese planes.  I spotted a new book by
Robert C. Mikesh "Japanese Aircraft - Code Names and Designations".
It has an interesting first chapter which gives the details of how the
naming system was developing primarilly by Col. Frank McCoy and Frances
Williams.  Turns out many planes were given names of people known to
people in the air intellegence units.  McCoy was also involved in developing
the post war system of naming Soviet aircraft.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 06:24:13 +0100
From:    Richard Harold Cummings <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: "Crystal Night"

The program was aired on Bavarian TV, a PAL television system, i.e.,
not compatible with the American television system NTSC.  You would
need a multi-system VCR and TV to watch the tape. Not many Americans
have them.  I know it can be converted over to a NTSC system, but
that is expensive.  I didn't make a copy of the program, sorry.
I can ask Bavarian TV for a copy, but I am not sure what I could
do with it.  If anyone in the U.S. works for, or has contacts, with
American TV networks, they might be able to obtain a copy through
that source. Obviously, the program was in German.  A thought, and
only a thought, the program first aired in 1988 (50th Anniversary).
Perhaps the Holocaust Museum in Washington has a copy in the archives?
Sorry, but that is the best I can come with.  Richard in Munich.

--==oo00oo==--
[email-masked]
RFE/RL Inc
Munich,Germany

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 06:56:25 +0100
From:    Richard Harold Cummings <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: "Crystal Night"

To those interested in historical coincidences, November 9 is
a very significant date.  To those not interested, please delete
now as the report from one of our editors is fairly long and
written in broadcast style:

yyy g - november 9th  symbolizes germany's troubled history

munich, nov. 9 (nca/patricia hudson) - most countries commemorate
important days in their history, but few can match the historical
weight of november 9th in germany's troubled history. that one
day marks the founding of the weimar republic in 1918; hitler's
foiled beer hall putsch in 1923; the night of broken glass
(kristallnacht) in 1938 when jews were beaten and killed, their
shops and synagogues destroyed; and the breachingf the berlin
wall in 1989.

taken together, those events sum up some of the most important
turning points in 20th century german histo. and because, like
france in the 19th century, so much of german history this
century has affected the course of  rest of the world, they have
gained a signficance reaching far beyond germany's borders.

moreover, as germany witnesses a resurgence of neo-nazi extremism
and a loss of confidence in mainstream politics following
unification, each of the november 9th milestones has gained new
relevance. as the country marks the 75th anniversary of the
founding of the weimar republic today, for example, analysts are
recalling the weakness of democratic institutions that failed to
resist pressures from the extreme right and left. while political
leaders reject direct comparisons between now and then, even the
most sanguine     commentators warnhat weimar's lessons should
not be forgotten during a time of economic uncertainty and
growing political apathy. some analysts are already calling
attention to today's 1930s-like unemployment and warning of
unrest, particularly in eastern germany.

likehe fall of the berlin wall, the weimar republic was also
initially greeted with euphoria as marking the end of the
wilhelmine monarchy. theodor wolff, the famous editor-in-chief of
the "berliner tagesblatt," wrote on nov. 10, 1918: "the greatest
of all revotions has like a sudden great wind toppled the
imperial regime together with everything that meant from top to
ottom." many of the jubilant celebrators atop the berlin wall 71
years later likewise believed the east german communist regime
had been swept asi with one powerful gesture. but in both cases,
a truism of history soon became apparent: that revolutions are
not made in a day and that what has gone before can be neither
erased nor forgotten.

berlin historian heinrich august winkler writes in today's
"sueddeutsche zeitung" that in the case of weimar: "the
republican new beginning was handicapped -- handicappnot only by
the  military defeat from which it rose, but also by the
contradictory legacy of the system that crashed in 1918."

similarly, most analysts agree that the legacy of the sed regime
has made the task of sewing together east and west germany all
the more difficult because of the vastly different economic
conditions and social expectations of both halves. those
differences extend to most asects of life, including, for
example, how eastern germans perceive their nation's history and
their own national identity. for germans who grew up under the
communist regime, hitler's attempted putsch in 1923 or the
kristallnacht 15 years later were seen though a prism created by
the sed. that view distanced "good, socialist germans" in the
east from historic crs said to have resulted from the excesses of
western-style capitalism. many analysts say it is only now that
eastern germans are coming to terms with the country's nazi past,
at a time when neo-nazi skinheads -- many with only the vaguest
knowledge of the third reich -- are desecrating jewish cemeteries
and smearing swastikas on public buildings.

it is not surprising then that so many german commenttors today
focus on the strong ambivalence they say november 9th now
arouses: joy, on the one hand, that many is no longer divided, no
matter how difficult unity is proving to chieve; but at the same
time  sorrow to recall the country's missed opportunities in 1918
and 1923 to resist the extremism that plunged the country and the
rest of the world into chaos and the huge cost in human life that
resulted in 1938 and beyond.

--==oo00oo==--
[email-masked]
RFE/RL Inc
Munich,Germany

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 13:00:22 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Long Lance Torpedo

On Sun, 7 Nov 1993, [email-masked] wrote:

>   Mr.Todaka, Tokyo, Japan, an Imperial Japanese Navy weapons expert, stated in
>   in his letter to Mr.Norman Polmar, 28 Sept 1993, that it was his opinion the
>   term of NAGAYARI, (or Long Lance), probably originated in the United States
>   rather than in Japan. He also stated the term of GYORAI (torpedo) was used in
>   the IJN (Combined Fleet), and automatically meant the Type 93 torpedo.
>   Possibly someone on our side thought up the name. Maybe someone connected
>   with Samuel Eliot Morison official History of the Navy in World War II.
>   QUESTION: Who gave the Long Lance its name, and why ?

I recall reading about the Long Lance torpedo in the above mentioned
work.  The "why" is very simple.   Its range was about 30-50% greater
than the then used U.S. torpedos.   I think they also had a larger
diameter and were intended only for  use on surface vessels.

Regards

Peter

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 07:06:49 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 10 NOV 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 10 NOVEMBER 1943
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning

CENTRAL PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Seventh Air Force): The 27th
Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 30th Bombardment Group (Heavy), transfers from
Mokuleia Field, Territory of Hawaii to Nanumea Island in the Ellice Islands
with B-24's. They will fly their first mission on 14 Nov.
  The 392d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 30th Bombardment Group (Heavy)
transfers from Barking Sands, Territory of Hawaii to Canton Island in the
Phoenix Islands with B-24's. They will fly their first mission on 22 Nov.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, fighters on armed reconnaissance
sink 3 large motor boats in the Yoyang-Sinti area and damage or sink 15
sampans and a barge in the Hwajung-Shasi vicinity.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): VIII Bomber Command Mission 126: 5
B-17's drop 1 million leaflets over Paris, Rennes, Le Mans and Rouen, France
at 2020-2051 hours.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Around 60 B-26's bomb Chievres
airfield, Belgium. In France, bad weather causes the force sent to bomb
Lille/Vendeville airfield to abandon their mission, though a few bombers
manage to bomb other targets in the area; a force of 72 B-26's dispatched to
attack Montdidier airfield suffers numerous aborts due to weather; 6 bombers
manage to bomb the airfield believed to be the secondary target of
Amiens/Glisy.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Italy, B-24's bomb the
Villarperosa ball-bearing works at Turin, and B-17's pound a bridge and
marshalling yards at Bolzano. P-38's escort the B-24's all the way and
accompany the B-17's almost to the target.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): Northwest African Tactical Bomber
Force (NATBF) bombers hit shipping at Split, Yugoslavia and Durazzo, Albania.
In Italy, XII Air Support Command and Royal Air Force (RAF) fighter-bombers
hit Rocca and nearby gun positions, and trains and troops S of Rome; fighters
strafe trucks and trains in the Rome-La Spezia and the Piombino-Leghorn areas.
  HQ 310th Bombardment Group (Medium) and it's 380th Bombardment Squadron
(Medium) transfer from Menzel Temime, Tunisia to Philippeville, Algeria with
B-25's. A detachment of the 380th is operating from Oudna, Tunisia.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force): In the Solomon
Islands, 20+ B-25's carry out strikes on Kara airfield on Bougainville Island
and the airfield on Ballale Island and attack shipping between Suhane Island
and Tarlena.
  The 69th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 42d Bombardment Group (Medium),
transfers from New Caledonia Island to the Russell Islands with B-25's.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force): B-24's bomb Lakunai
airfield on New Britain Island, hit a new landing ground on Duke of York
Island east of Rabaul, and bomb Soerabaja, Java. B-25's thoroughly pound
Alexishafen airfield on New Guinea.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 07:43:36 EST
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: US tank naming

On Tue, 9 Nov 1993 16:08:54 EST Larry & Kim Jewell said:
>TWIHI (The Way I Heard It) was that a British tanker drove a recently arrived
>Stuart around for a while, and pronounced that it was a "real honey" so they
>named them Honey tanks. I've always thought the nicknames had more recognition
>value than the "official" names.

Crisp's driver, reported in =Brazen Chariots=.

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 06:48:43 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Naming of Japanese Planes

Date sent:      Wed, 10 Nov 1993 00:00:15 EST
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           "Denis Ouellette, Indiana Univ" <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Naming of Japanese Planes
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

I don't recall the original post, but I think someone had a question
about the naming of Japanese planes.  I spotted a new book by
Robert C. Mikesh "Japanese Aircraft - Code Names and Designations".
It has an interesting first chapter which gives the details of how the
naming system was developing primarilly by Col. Frank McCoy and Frances
Williams.  Turns out many planes were given names of people known to
people in the air intellegence units.  McCoy was also involved in developing
the post war system of naming Soviet aircraft.

Denis,

Very interesting. Thanks for the post.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 06:50:16 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: CAP - question

Date sent:      Tue, 9 Nov 1993 15:47:23 -0700
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Doug Cahoon <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: CAP - question
Originally to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

A question about Navy lingo.
I have a log book for a fighter pilot and in the "Character of Flight" column
it has such things as:
CAP
Z
JACK
CL
FCLP
GB
RCAP
Is there a translation for these somewhere?

Doug Cahoon

Doug,

I can't help with all of these, but CAP stands for Combat Air Patrol.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 07:04:38 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Combat!

Date sent:      Wed, 10 Nov 1993 12:31:29 +1100
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Mick Fauchon <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: INF: Combat!
Originally to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

        Doug,

            By now somebody else has probably told you this, but "Combat!"
was a television programme in the "50s (early 60s?) : I can remember
watching it as a kid ---- we even got it here in Australia.

                                                Hope that helps,

                                                Regards,

                                                Mick.

--                                                                          --
Mick,

"Combat" appeared in the early 60's, and it was also one of my
favorites. In fact, that series contributed much into my deciding to
learn German, which, as you know, much of that language was used to
enhance the realism of it.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 07:10:58 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN/EDU: WWII and Japanese/Japanese Americans

Date sent:      Mon, 8 Nov 1993 14:55:00 CDT
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Roger Safian <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: GEN/EDU: WWII and Japanese/Japanese Americans
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

Terry,

    "Go for Broke" is out on video.  Should be no problem to find.
Great movie.  Try the Van Heflin (sp) double feature, by watching
"Battleground" as well.  (Yes it's on video as well)

                                                Roger

Roger,

Thanks a million for the post. I will look into those ASAP. I wasn't
aware that  "Battleground" was out on video as well. I saw that one
when it came out. Also an excellent movie, and BTW, it was Van
Johnson who did an excellent job as the main character.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 08:12:28 EST
From:    "William B. Thacker" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: US tank naming

Joe (Is that Little Joe or Big Joe?) Barone writes:
>
> > The same sort of comment is made for the Stuart, Grant/Lee, and
> > others.  In each case, no mention is made of a nickname for US
>
>         So why did the British have such a fixation on the American
> Civil War?

A better question would be, "why did they decide to name them after
generals."  With the exception of the Cromwell (and arguably the
Churchill), the British didn't do that with their own tanks.
(Possibility... maybe the Cromwell was then being developed, and someone
wanted to start a pattern for names.  I'd have to check some dates.)

Having decided to use US generals, the choice gets simpler.  The British
obviously aren't going to celebrate heroes from our War of Independence, or
the War of 1812.  WWI and the Mexican-American War were both pretty recent,
and the only name that rushes to mind from these is Pershing (was he still
alive?  ).  The Spanish-American War's most touted hero (excluding the
navy) was Teddy Roosevelt, which would cause confusion relative to
President Franklin Roosevelt.

Bottom line:  it's the ACW or nothing.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker             AT&T Network Systems       attmail!att!cbemf!wbt
(614) 860-5294           Columbus, Ohio              [email-masked]
                      Humpty Dumpty was pushed!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 08:17:55 EST
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: CAP - question

Doug,

Being a ground-pounder grunt type, I can't help too much.
I do know that CAP stands for Combat Air Patrol - fighters whose
mission was to fly over the carrier to provide early warning
and fight off any incoming enemy planes.

Bear

>A question about Navy lingo.
>I have a log book for a fighter pilot and in the "Character of Flight" column
>it has such things as:
>CAP
>Z
>JACK
>CL
>FCLP
>GB
>RCAP
>Is there a translation for these somewhere?
>
>Doug Cahoon
>

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 08:24:54 EST
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN/EDU: WWII and Japanese/Japanese Americans

Valerie,

Looks like a good questionnaire.  I can't help you out directly with
what you are looking for, but you may also want to consider interviewing
any people (US citizens or otherwise) who were in the Phillipines and/or
Guam.

My mother was 9 years old when the war broke out and she and her family endured
2 and 1/2 years of occupation by the Japanese on Guam.  Even today, she
won't talk about it too much, although now she has forgiven the Japanese
for the treatment the Guamanians received, especially during the latter
stages of the occupation before liberation in 1944.

Bear

Barrett F. Lowe                    RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, US Military Academy, West Point, NY 10996

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 08:46:59 EST
From:    Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: British and names

>From Bill Thacker:

> . . .   (I've heard claimed that
> the British named the Lee as well, but that sounds suspicious to me since
> 'm not aware that they ever bought any. . . .

Bill, per _British_and_American_Tanks_of_WWII (Chamerlain and Ellis),
"On March 11,1941, the Lend-Lease Act was ratified which made munitions
of all kinds available to Britain . . . Standard M3 mediums were thus
also supplied to the British Army who gave these vehicles the name Lee . . ."

I think it all just goes to show that under that officious exterior,
all Englishmen are romantics at heart:  names are so much friendlier
than numbers.  B^)

  __|  __|  __|  |  Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
_|   _|   _|     |
 |       | |     |  Computer Sciences Corp., Integrated Systems Div.
 ___|____/ ___|  |  304 W. Rte. 38, Moorestown, NJ 08057

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 09:17:40 EST
From:    Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: US tank naming

>       So why did the British have such a fixation on the American
> Civil War?  Another ACW name comes to mind: M36 Jackson.  I guess

Well, it had been our biggest war by far to that time, so it certainly
had the most generals to choose from (we eventually got Pershing in
there by the very end of the war, to represent WWI).  You don't think
the Brits were going to choose Revolutionary War generals, eh?  B^)

  __|  __|  __|  |  Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
_|   _|   _|     |
 |       | |     |  Computer Sciences Corp., Integrated Systems Div.
 ___|____/ ___|  |  304 W. Rte. 38, Moorestown, NJ 08057

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 08:48:00 CDT
From:    Roger Safian <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN/EDU: WWII and Japanese/Japanese Americans

Terry,

> Thanks a million for the post. I will look into those ASAP. I wasn't
> aware that  "Battleground" was out on video as well. I saw that one
> when it came out. Also an excellent movie, and BTW, it was Van
> Johnson who did an excellent job as the main character.

When I sent that I knew there was something wrong, but I just coudn't
put my finger on it.  Thanks for the correction.

                                               Roger

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 10:19:47 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Navy Termn

>A question about Navy lingo.
>I have a log book for a fighter pilot and in the "Character of Flight" column
>it has such things as:

>CAP - Combat Air Patrol

>Z - Probably Zebra (now Zulu), i.e., Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) or
Universal Coordinated Time (UTC), i.e., EST + 5 hours

>JACK - Code name for a Japanese aircraft.  I will have to check my
references at home to determine the aircraft.

>CL - USN designation for a light cruiser

That's it folks.

>FCLP
>GB
>RCAP
>Is there a translation for these somewhere?
>
>Doug Cahoon
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 09:34:22 EST
From:    Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: CAP - question

It's hard to answer out of context, but CL could be "Cruiser, Light", and
RCAP may be Recon Combat Air Patrol.  If used in conjunction with a time,
Z may refer to Zulu time (Greenwich Meridian Time).  I'm sure some ex or
current tail-hooker will ultimately resolve this for you.

  __|  __|  __|  |  Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
_|   _|   _|     |
 |       | |     |  Computer Sciences Corp., Integrated Systems Div.
 ___|____/ ___|  |  304 W. Rte. 38, Moorestown, NJ 08057

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 12:02:14 -0500
From:    "M. Joseph Barone" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: US tank naming

From: "William B. Thacker" <[email-masked]> writes:
>
> Joe (Is that Little Joe or Big Joe?) Barone ...

Definitely Little Joe since I'm a first generation Italian just as he
was and I suspect that I would have also moved the Command Jeep to the
other of the canal in the face of twenty attacking Tigers!

> WWI and the Mexican-American War were both pretty recent,

Say what!? Mex-Am was fought nearly 100 years before!  Now, I'll
grant you that it was kinda boring by comparison... :-)

> and the only name that rushes to mind from these is Pershing (was he still
> alive?

Yes.  He outlived Patton.  The irony was that Patton visited Pershing
before Patton left for North Africa and wished Pershing a long life that
would go beyond his own.  George got his wish!  (Patton was Pershing's
subordinate during the hunt for Pacho Villa and, I think, WWI.)
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
Look, when we was in the bocage country, we was assaulted by them Tigers!
You know what I mean by assaulted, hunh?!  Well, I mean assaulted!!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 13:26:04 EDT
From:    RICHARD KING <[email-masked]>
Subject: Addr: James Jones

*** Resending note of 11/10/93 13:24
Date: 10 Nov 93 13:24:56 EDT
From:  <RKING@VUNET>
To:    <[email-masked]>

Terry:
I attended the James Jones Conference Saturday and asked about
your questions. Jones's son, Jamie, and daughter, Kaylie, both
were in attendance, and both generally said that they were around
their dad when he was working on WWII and he had access to
whatever he wanted. Kaylie said Jones was friends with several
retired generals and could well have received information verbally
from them concerning Olympic and Coronet. The person who
worked on the book with him (Graphics direction: Art Weithas)
lives in New York (I was told) and could be contacted there (maybe
Whos Who in Art or the publisher, in this case Grosset & Dunlap),
and you could ask him further questions.
    Otherwise, no one knew much about it (I think there is about
one or two pages in the book about those operations: my dad and
his 77th Division were getting ready to head for the Japan invasion when
the war ended, thankfully, or I would no doubt not be here today).
My dad told me recently about how he heard when the war ended. He
and zillions of other soldiers were camped on an island somewhere
(this is for R&R after Okinawa) when the announcement was made.
He said there were tents full of men as far as you could see on
both sides of you, and as word passed from tent to tent you just
heard terrific shouting from that tent. So he heard far in the
distance the shouting as it gradually approached his tent; finally
the word came and the men in his tent all shouted, then the next
one and so forth on down the line until the noise got lower and lower
and went away, into infinity.
     I'll bend your ear a little more. Willie Morris (main speaker)
said he was at a party in Washington, DC, with Jones, and Morris
was standing at a bar when Sen. Ted Kennedy walked up and said,
"I'll have a scotch and soda, please." Morris said he was so
flabbergasted he fixed Kennedy a drink and handed it to him. He
said he looked over against the wall and James Jones was laughing
so hard he had to lean against the wall for support. A short time
later, Kennedy wanted another drink and said, "Where's that
bartender?" Jones walked up to Kennedy and said, "That was no
bartender, that was the God Damned Editor-in-Chief of Harpers
Magazine!"
Enough for now. Best wishes from Indiana.
Richard L. King, Vincennes University, Vincennes, IN
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 13:14:36 -0600
From:    John Lundstrom <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: CAP - question

Doug,
        I can offer a few definitions, although it would help to know
when the flight logs date.
CAP= Combat Air Patrol ; CL = carrier landing (usually kept a running total);
FCLP= Field Carrier Landing Practice (touch downs on a land base under the
control of a landing signal officer) RCAP= possibly Rescue CAP (to protect
downed pilots). JACK = Allied code name for a Japanese J2M Raiden fighter-
interceptor [did he claim this?].
        A friend has done some research on log entries, and I will contact
him for possible further clarification.
        Contact me directly, and I may be able to help in researching your
uncle at Okinawa.
        John Lundstrom [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 13:28:12 -0500
From:    Wendy Novacek <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

sign off WWII-L

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 13:38:25 -0600
From:    Joe Pohlmann <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Tank Naming

        The British were very flamboyant in their naming of war materials.  They also enjoyed renaming American products put into British service.  For example, the American Skytrain was renamed the Dakota by the British.

        Just a thought...

                        Joe Pohlmann
                        Monsanto Port Plastics
                        Process Systems Engineer
                        pohlmann@ppclus

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 14:48:35 EST
From:    "Denis Ouellette, Indiana Univ" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: US tank naming

Don't forget that the American Civil War generated a lot of interest
in Europe at time, especially Britain.  Partly political, economic
(Southern cotton feed the British textile mills - at least until they
got from Egypt and India), most because sustained warfare with those
kind of casulties had never been seen before.  Many of the battles
were covered by British journalists and received front page coverage
there.  I think it was one of the last wars that generated "romantic"
heros - which certainly didn't happen for the British in WWI.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 16:30:38 -0500
From:    Robert Doyle <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: CAP - QUESTION

>A question about Navy lingo.
>I have a log book for a fighter pilot and in the "Character of Flight" column
>it has such things as:
>CAP
>Z
>JACK
>CL
>FCLP
>GB
>RCAP
>Is there a translation for these somewhere?
>
>Doug Cahoon
************************************************

CAP: Combat Air Patrol
Z: Zone
JACK: probably JACC: Joint Airborne Communications Center
CL: probably C/L: Carrier Landing(s)
FCLP: Field Carrier Landing Practice
GB: General Board?
RCAP:? RCA: Reach Cruising Altitude

The DICNAVAB is always a good source:
"Dictionary of Naval Abbreviations",
Bill Wedertz,
Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, 1977. There are more recent editions.
Happy Veterans' Day

Bob

Robert J. Doyle, Jr.
Naval Research Laboratory
Washington, DC
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 15:46:37 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: US tank naming

Date sent:      Wed, 10 Nov 1993 09:17:40 EST
Send reply to:  World War II Discussion List <[email-masked]>
From:           Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
Subject:        Re: US tank naming
Originally to:  [email-masked]
To:             Multiple recipients of list WWII-L <[email-masked]>

>       So why did the British have such a fixation on the American
> Civil War?  Another ACW name comes to mind: M36 Jackson.  I guess

Well, it had been our biggest war by far to that time, so it certainly
had the most generals to choose from (we eventually got Pershing in
there by the very end of the war, to represent WWI).  You don't think
the Brits were going to choose Revolutionary War generals, eh?  B^)

  __|  __|  __|  |  Charles Reace <[email-masked]>
_|   _|   _|     |
 |       | |     |  Computer Sciences Corp., Integrated Systems Div.
 ___|____/ ___|  |  304 W. Rte. 38, Moorestown, NJ 08057

Charles and others,

I would also think that out of respect for the fact that we had
supplied our British allies with badly-needed equipment, and rather
than confuse the issue by retaining already-named American equipment
in British service, the Brits, to indicate that the equipment was of
non-British origin but of American, would rename the American
equipment using another name of Civil War origin, as you suggest.
Does that make sense?

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 16:41:22 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: West Point Library On-Line (repeat)

Barry,

Thanks for the information referencing the USMA Card Catalog. I will
take advantage of that and have my mind blown again about all that is
available out there.

I appreciate the article very much, and hope that you received the
same from me.

Until later,

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Nov 1993 00:42:57 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Navy Termn

On Wed, 10 Nov 1993 [email-masked] wrote:
> >JACK - Code name for a Japanese aircraft.  I will have to check my
> references at home to determine the aircraft.

'Jack' was Mitsubishi J2M Raiden, a relatively scarce aircraft. Allow me
to list (not yet fully complete, but the list was near at hand):

Adam          Nakajima SKT-97. Did not exist.
Alf           Kawanishi E7K
Ann           Mitsubishi Ki.30
Babs          Mitsubishi C5M
Babs          Mitsubishi Ki.15
Belle         Kawanishi H3K
Ben           Nagoya-Sento KI-001. Did not exist.
Bess          Heinkel He 111. Not in Japanese service.
Betty         Mitsubishi G4M
Betty         Mitsubishi G6M
Bob           Achi 97 seapleane. Did not exist.
Bob           Kawasaki Ki-28
Cedar         Tachikawa Ki.17
Cherry        Yokosuka H5Y
Clara         Tachikwawa Ki.70
Claude        Mitsubishi A5M
Cypress       Kyushu K9W
Dave          Nakajima E8N
Dick          Seversky A8V
Dinah         Mitsubishi Ki.46
Doc           Messerschmitt Bf 110. Not in Japanese service.
Doris         Mitsubishi B-97. Did not exist.
Edna          Mitsubishi Ki.71
Emily         Kawanishi H8K
Eva           Not a military aircraft.
Eve           Not a military aircraft.
Frances       Yokosuka P1Y Ginga / Kyokko
Frank         Mitsubihi TK-4. Did not exist.
Frank         Nakajima Ki.84 Hayate
Fred          Focke-Wulf Fw 190. Not in Japanese service.
George        Kawanishi N1K1-J and N1K2-J
Ginga         "Melkweg"
Glenn         Yokosuka E14Y
Grace         Aichi B7A Ryusei
Gus           Nakajima AT-27. Did not exist.
Hamp          Mitsubishi A6M Reisen with clipped wing tips.
Hank          Aichi E10A
Harry         Mitsubishi TK-4. Did not exist.
Helen         Nakajima Ki.49 Donryu
Hickory       Tachikawa Ki.54
Ida           Tachikawa Ki.36
Ida           Tachikawa Ki.55
Ione          Aichi AI-104. Did not exist.
Irene         Junkers Ju 87. Not in Japanese service.
Irving        Nakajima J1N Gekko
Jack          Mitsubishi J2M Raiden
Jake          Aichi E13A
Janice        Junkers Ju 88. Not in Japanese service.
Jean          Yokosuka B4Y
Jerry         Heinkel He 112.
Jill          Nakajima B6N
Joe           TK-19. Did not exist.
Joyce         Tachikawa. Did not exist.
Judy          Yokosuka D4Y
Julia         Type 97 heavy bomber. Did not exist. (Was Ki.48)
June          Seaplane version of Aichi D3A. Did not exist. (Was E13A)
Kate          Nakajima B5N
Kate 61       Mitsubishi B5M
Kyokko        "Dageraad"
Laura         Aichi E11A
Lily          Kawasaki Ki.48
Liz           Nakajia G5N
Loise         Mitsubishi Ki-2
Lorna         Kyushu Q1W Tokai
Louise        Mitsubishi Ki-2
Mabel         Mitsubishi B5M
Mavis         Kawanishi H6K
Mike          Messerschmitt Bf 109. Not in Japanese service.
Millie        Vultee VG-11. Not in Japanese service.
Myrt          Nakajima C6N Saiun
Nate          Nakajima Ki.27
Nell          Mitsubishi G3M
Nick          Kawasaki Ki.45 Toryu
Norm          Kawanishi E15K Shiun
Norma         Type 97 light bomber, did not exist. (Was Ki-15)
Oak           Kawanishi K10W
Omar          Suzukaze 20. Did not exist.
Oscar         Nakajima Ki.43 Hayabusa
Patsy         Tachikawa Ki.74
Paul          Aichi E16A Zuiun
Peggy         Mitsubishi Ki.67
Perry         Kawasaki Ki.10
Pete          Mitsubishi F1M
Pine          Mitsubishi K3M
Randy         Kawasaki Ki.102
Ray           Mitsubishi Type 1. Did not exist. (Was A6M)
Rex           Kawanishi N1K Kyofu
Rita          Nakajima G8N Renzan
Rob           Kawasaki Ki.64
Rufe          Nakajima A6M, floatplane version of the A6M 'Zeke'.
Ruth          Fiat BR 20
Sally         Mitsubishi Ki.21
Sam           Mitsubishi A7M Reppu
Slim          Watanabe E9W
Sonia         Mitsubishi Ki.51
Spruce        Tachikawa Ki.9
Stella        Kokusai Ki.76
Susie         Aichi D1A
Tabby         Showa / Nakajima L2D.
Thalia        Kawasaki Ki.56
Thelma        Tachikawa LO
Theresa       Kokusai Ki.59
Thora         Nakajima Ki.34
Tina          Mitsubishi L3Y
Tojo          Nakajima Ki.44 Shoki
Tony          Kawasaki Ki.61 Hien
Topsy         Kawasaki Ki.57
Trixie        Junkers Ju 52/3m. Not in Japanese service.
Trudy         Focke Wulf Fw 200. Not in Japanese service.
Val           Aichi D3A
Willow        Yokosuka K5Y
Zeke          Mitsubishi A6M Reisen

Emmanuel.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 20:41:15 EST
From:    Richard Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: tank naming

>...why name them after generals...?

        From what I remember reading about British habits in naming their
vehicles, the pattern depended on the tank's role.  Recon, or real armor.
The pattern I recall involved light to medium tanks with C names: Cromwell,
Crusader and Comet.  The Churchill obviously doesn't fit here, but that may
have been a popular rather than official designation.

        As for the "Wolverine" that was a TD and not a tank.  What I'd like to
know, is why the British came up with "Priest" and "Bishop" for self-propelled
guns?

                                        Richard Kaplan

My vote for better movie about the PTO is the one with Jimmy Cagney portraying
Admiral Halsey; but I forget the title (is it Above and Beyond)?

I also like the John Wayne pic about Frank "Spig" Wead; has eagles in the
title.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 20:57:35 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Veterans' Day, 1993.

               Day is done,
               Gone the Sun,
               From the land,
               From the sea,
               From the sky.

               All is well,
               Rest in peace,
               God is nigh.

Remember that some gave their all that you might have all you have.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Nov 1993 21:08:29 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: For Veterans'/Remembrance Day.

                  Flags today in tribute wave
                  For those loyal ones who gave
                  Of their youth, their hopes, their might
                  For a cause they knew was right.

                  Morning bells sound their call.
                  Pause and say a prayer for all-
                  All who served valiantly
                  That men might be ever free.

                  Toll of bells, drums' slow beat-
                  Silence falls in every street.
                  In each heart swells the plea:
                  Keep us safe, but keep us free!

>From Ms. Schrumf's sixth grade class, Burtsfield Elementary, West Lafayette,
Indiana, USA.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 9 Nov 1993 to 10 Nov 1993
************************************************