Subject: WWII-L Digest - 3 Nov 1993 to 4 Nov 1993

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 00:00:44 -0500

There are 11 messages totalling 427 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Patton One-Upping Monty (2)
  2. USAAF 4 NOV 43
  3. USN News
  4. Allied Air Campaign in Europe (fwd)
  5. 3 Shermans?
  6. Librarians and Objectivity
  7. neo-Nazis and Jews
  8. Guy Sajer
  9. mystery
 10. INF,REF: German plans for attacking Sweden

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Date:    Thu, 4 Nov 1993 06:26:12 EST
From:    "Denis Ouellette, Indiana Univ" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Patton One-Upping Monty

On the Polish drop at Arnhem-
It ended up being a day late and a dollar short.  The orginal drop site
for the Poles, south of the bridge, was held by the SS Panzer Grenadiers
so a new drop site was made west near Driel. Had the 1st to able to hold
the northern end of the ferry crossing it might have made a difference.
The Poles made several costly attempts at crossing the river, but only
a handful got across.  Also, lacking heavy weapons they could be of
no assitance to the trapped 1st.
BTW, I've been trying to get a copy of Gen. Sosabowski's book "Freely I Serve"
I would think that would have the most details.

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Date:    Thu, 4 Nov 1993 07:25:35 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USAAF 4 NOV 43

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 4 NOVEMBER 1993
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): The Chinese-American Composite Wing enters
combat on this date. It's B-25's hit Amoy and Swatom, China successfully
bombing and strafing ground troops, supply facilities, and shipping; the
B-25's claim 4 cargo ships badly damaged and possibly sunk.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): HQ 445th Bombardment Group (Heavy)
arrives at Tibenham, England from the U.S.
  HQ 446th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and it's 704th, 705th, 706th and 707th
Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) arrive at Flixton, England with B-24's. They
will fly their first mission on 16 Dec.
  The 27th Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron, 7th Photographic
Reconnaissance and Mapping Group, arrives at Mount Farm, England from the U.S.
with F-5's.
  The 614th and 615th Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy), 401st Bombardment
Squadron (Heavy), arrive at Deenethorpe, England from the U.S. with B-17's.
They will fly their first mission on 26 Nov.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): HQ Ninth Air Force issues a letter
ordering a small detachment of HQ, the IX Air Force Engineer Section, to
assume the functions of a command under Colonel Karl B Schilling, thus
beginning the creation of IX Engineer Command.
  HQ 354th Fighter Group and it's 353d and 355th Fighter Squadron arrive at
Greenham Common, England from the U.S. with P-51's. They will fly their first
mission on 1 Dec. The is the first fighter group assigned to the Ninth Air
Force.
  The 75th and 78th Troop Carrier Squadrons, 435th Troop Carrier Group, arrive
at Langer, England from the U.S. with C-47's and C-53's.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Italy, B-17's bomb railroads
between Montalto di Castro and Orbetello, between Orbetello and Talamone, and
between San Vincenzo and Cecina; bomb-carrying P-38's, escorted by others, hit
a tunnel N of Terni and strafe Montalto di Castro.
  HQ 325th Fighter Group and it's 317th, 318th and 319th Fighter Squadron
transfer from Mateur to Soliman, Tunisia with P-47's.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): Brigadier General Donald A Davison
takes command of the XII Air Force Engineer Command (Provisional), following
the command's assignment to the Twelfth Air Force on 1 Nov. In Italy, XII Air
Support Command and RAF fighters and fighter-bombers hit trucks and trains in
the Sora-Avezzano area, the airfields of Furbara and Tarquinia, and small
vessels off Pescara, Italy and Solta, Yugoslavia.
  The 522d and 524th Fighter-Bomber Squadrons, 27th Fighter-Bomber Group,
transfer from Capaccio to Paestum and Guado Airfield, Italy respectively with
A-36's.

SOUTH PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Thirteenth Air Force): In the Solomon
Islands, 23 B-24's strike the airfield on Buka Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Fifth Air Force): P-40's bomb
Palmalmal Plantation, New Guinea.  B-24's on armed reconnaissance claim 1
vessel sunk N of New Britain Island in the Bismarck Archipelago.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date:    Thu, 4 Nov 1993 07:42:41 -0500
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: USN News

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Navy News Service - NAVNEWS BY EMAIL - [email-masked]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
NAVY NEWS SERVICE - 3 NOV 93 - NAVNEWS 074/93
   Top News and Policy Stories
NNS864.  Navy Cross Awarded to WWII Veteran
   Personnel Notes
NNS868.  Evals for SERB Eligible Chiefs Important
                               -USN-
NNS864.  Navy Cross Awarded to WWII Veteran
WASHINGTON (NNS) -- World War II Navy veteran Alonzo A. Swann was
awarded the Navy Cross in a ceremony held Nov. 3 in New York City
on board the aircraft carrier Intrepid for his courageous action in
combat during an attack on the carrier in October 1944.  Swann
heroically manned his anti-aircraft gun on Intrepid in the face of
a determined Japanese Kamikaze attack.
     In February 1945, Mr. Swann and six of his shipmates were
awarded the Bronze Star Medal, the nation's fourth highest award
for valor.  Swann, an African-American, stated he was to be awarded
the higher decoration of the Navy Cross, but it was downgraded to a
Bronze Star due to his race.  He sought to have the medal upgraded
to the higher award by first petitioning the Navy and later through
legal action.
     Swann's efforts brought his case to the attention of then
Secretary of the Navy Sean O'Keefe for the first time.  After
personally reviewing all the facts of the case, Secretary O'Keefe
decided the appropriate level of award for Swann's combat action
was the Navy Cross, and the Intrepid Museum Society generously
offered to sponsor the ceremony.
                               -USN-
         Personnel Notes
NNS867.  Naval Aviation Schools Command Needs LDO/CWO Memorabilia
NAS PENSACOLA, Fla. (NNS) -- The Director, Officer Training School,
Naval Aviation Schools Command in Pensacola, Fla., has initiated a
program to pay tribute to the Navy's limited duty and chief warrant
officers.
     LCDR Warren E. Tuthill, project officer, is interested in
reaching all members of the LDO/CWO community, both active and
retired, to solicit donations of photographs, newspaper clippings,
historic literature, plaques, mugs, decals and former warrant
officer mess memorabilia.
     If you have information or items you would like to donate,
contact:  LCDR Warren E. Tuthill, Naval Aviation Schools Command
(Code 152), 181 Chambers Ave., Suite C, NAS Pensacola, Fla. 32508-
5221, (904) 452-3170/2781/4230 or (DSN) 922-3170/2781.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Nov 1993 15:33:05 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Allied Air Campaign in Europe (fwd)

On Wed, 3 Nov 1993, Denis Ouellette, Indiana Univ wrote:

> Another point is that over estimation of the effectiveness of strategic
> bombing lead to an over lavishing of the USAF after the war.
> I still find it hard to beleave that the ground forces in Korea fought
> with equipment that had barely changed from 1945.

I think that this had more to do with the A-bomb. The B-29 was the only
means of delivering it at the time.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Nov 1993 12:39:40 CST
From:    Lou Coatney <[email-masked]>
Subject: 3 Shermans?

Joe,

     What was the quote from?

Lou

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Nov 1993 13:51:31 -0500
From:    Steven VEST <[email-masked]>
Subject: Librarians and Objectivity

Dennis:

    Once again I feel I need to defend my profession.  You seem to be
making a rather sweeping generalization about librarians.  I can speak
from experience that that the librarians I've met work harder at being
objective than any other group I've known.  As I've said before, I have
seen librarians order books that espouse ideas with which they completely
disagree.  It sounds as if you have had one or two circumstances where
you perceived a bias.  I might be able to respond to one or two of these
circumstances.

   You mention that you donated some paperback books on World War Two and
later saw them sold at a book sale.  Many libraries have a policy of not
adding ANY paperbacks to their collection.  Studies have shown that they
wont stand up to circulation and the cost of processing, cataloging and
repairing these books is more than their value.  Often the library can
gain more by selling the books and pumping that money back into operating
expenses.

   As to the Dallas library removing Soldier of Fortune, was this during
the period when the case of the person hiring a hired killer from the
back of SOF was going on?  Some libraries dropped their subscriptions
during this time out of fear of facing law suits if someone else did this
using a magazine they obtained at the library.  I realize that this is a
bit crazy, but many institutions have become much too "gun shy" (no pun
intended) about anything that might result in a suit against the
library.

   Now, as to the school library and its policy of not collecting "war
books" I would indeed raise hell.  Go to the school board and tell them
of this policy (they may be totally unaware of this policy) and express
your displeasure in direct terms.  This is indeed censorship and no
professional librarian worth their salt would condone it.  You may want
to see if the person running this library is a professional.  This sounds
more like something that a non-professional volunteer "librarian" would do.

   I apologize to the members of this group for moving out of the WWII
subject.  But I wanted to respond publicly to a public statement.  If
Dennis is willing we'll take any further discussion of this matter to
personal e-mail.
========================== [email-masked]=========================
= Steven Vest: Head, Off Campus Lib. Services: Nova University, Ft. Ldl, FL =
= Two broken tigers, on fire in the night, flicker their souls to the wind. =
=                                     Al Stewart--Past, Present and Future. =
===============No statements made here reflect Nova University===============

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Nov 1993 14:57:33 EST
From:    Robert E George <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: neo-Nazis and Jews

Joe writes:
>
> The physician who had treated Hitler's mother was also Jewish
> and he (the physician) remained unmolested throughout the war.
> --
> Joe Barone
> [email-masked]
> I thought you said three Shermans.  Those
> nuts have brought half the army with them.
>

     This was Dr. Bloch or Dr. Blum ( I cannot recall the exact name).
     My understanding (based on recollections of Toland's book, which is
not at hand) was that the physician fled Austria shortly after Anschluss,
but that he (the physician) felt that he had received some special
consideration. We are in agreement that the doctor survived the war.

     Does anybody have concrete details? I would like to know the
details.

Rob George

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Nov 1993 15:45:50 CST-6CDT
From:    "Walter Bell, U. of North Texas" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Guy Sajer

I am a reference librarian at the University of North Texas and I
have a reference question from a patron that I hope you folks can
help me with.  The patron needs any biographical information on Guy
Sajer, the author of "The Forgotten Soldier" that has appeared since
he published his book.  If he has died, I need to know his dates.  If
he is still living, where is he and has he been involved in anything
significant lately? I've checked BIOBASE and the other standard
biographical indexes that we have here and have come up empty.
Anybody out there have any information or any ideas on where I can
look? I remember several posts on "The Forgotten Soldier" from a
couple of months back but, dummy that I am, I deleted them. If you
can find any information, please give me the source. Thanks in
advance.

Walter F. Bell
University of North Texas Libraries
Denton, Texas
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Nov 1993 16:47:09 EST-500
From:    Carol Owen Bell <[email-masked]>
Subject: mystery

    I have a mystery I would like the list members' help solving. The
story came from a Polish friend of mine who wants help trying to
locate some U.S. soliders her father, a member of the Polish
underground, met towards the end of the war. The story follows.

    "During the closing days of World War II, my father, Stanislas
("Stanley") Nowak, met in Poland some Americans from a B-29 crew just
after they parachuted from their crippled bomber. The airmen wanted
help getting to Lublin, to Charkow in the Soviet Union or to Turkey.
My father sheltered the men, befriending them up until the time they
linked up with the Soviet military a month later.
    "At that time my father was a medical student and a member of the
Polish Underground Army (A.K.) which was cooperating with the Polish
government in exile in London. My father's first meeting with the
American soliders was at Turek, near Kalisz. He drove them to Lodz,
where they stayed for a month. One of the men, a Sergeant Warren, was
injured and died at a hospital in Lodz.
    "The time would have been February, March of April, 1945, just
after the Red Army occupied this area on its way to Berlin. Because
my father didn't trust the Russians, he warned the Americans to avoid
them. However, after leaving the hospital, the airmen did make
contact with the Russian Chief of Aviation at the Army Aviation
Headquarters in Lodz on Pomorska Street. That was the last my father
heard or saw of the American soliders.
    "To this day my father carries their names, as he wrote them down
in 1945:
    1. Albert, Richard -- Lieutenant; crew chief
    2. Flax, Herman -- Sergeant; 721 S. Jackson, Denver, Colorado
    3. Hale, Glenn K. -- 7951 Yale Ave., Chicago
    4. Laubenstein, ?? -- Sergeant
    5. Lewn, John
    6. Warren, ?? --
    "My father has always wondered why his American friends wished to
go to Russia and if any of them are alive today. I would like to help
my father locate them, to find out if any of the men are still living
and where they are. Both my father and I would appreciate any leads
that might help our search.
    "Elizabeth Nowak-Pyda"

    Now my question is, do any of you know where to start. I don't
have any reason to doubt the veracity of the story.

Carol Bell
University of Tennessee-Knoxville
Office of University Relations
News Center

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Nov 1993 23:26:54 +0100
From:    Asad Rustum <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF,REF: German plans for attacking Sweden

Hello,

I posted this as a question a few days ago, but I'm not sure whether
it came through or not, so I'll try again.

Recently on the news I heard that German plans to invade Sweden during
WW2 were discovered in Germany. I'd like to know how to get hold of
this information and anything that has to do with the plans.  To make
things easy for you, what units were supposed to have attaked,
preferably with their composition, where were they planned to attack
and what date & time were they supposed to have attacked should the
attack ever have been launched.

If these plans are available, could I get them in Swedish, English or
French or do they only come in one flavour - German?

Any help is much appreciated.

Many thanks,

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 Asad Rustum                          'Oh Lord won't you buy me
 [email-masked]                   a Mercedes Benz...'
 [email-masked]                Janis Joplin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 4 Nov 1993 09:12:00 CDT
From:    Roger Safian <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Patton One-Upping Monty

Greetings,

    I don't want to fan the Market-Garden flames any more, but I do
happen to have this can of gasoline here!  :-)

If I recall things correctly, the recon bn of the 9th SS crossed the
bridge shortly before Frosts para bn arrived at the north end.  I'm
pretty sure that the SS were ordered to hold both Arnhem and Nimegien(sp)
bridges until help arrived.  Since there was no action in Arnhem, the bn
went on it's way and secured the nimegien bridge.

The point here is that if we want to play "What if" here, we need to
consider a lot more than just what if the British did this or that.
What if Model believed the captured plans were real.  What if he gave
orders to destroy the bridges at once.

I think discussions such as this are interesting, but ultimatly there
is no way to end this.

I suggest that we all take a moment to consider the cost of this
operation.  Americans, British, Dutch, Germans, Poles...lives and
properity were shattered.  Let's make sure it doesn't happen again.

Somehow this all seems to deep for first thing in the morning...I
wonder if someone spiked my coffee?  ;-}

                                              Roger

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End of WWII-L Digest - 3 Nov 1993 to 4 Nov 1993
***********************************************