Subject: WWII-L Digest - 12 Jan 1994 to 13 Jan 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 00:00:30 -0500

There are 22 messages totalling 902 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. TRV: P-51C Rivet Count
  2. Patton (2)
  3. USAAF 13 JAN 44
  4. Waffen-SS (3)
  5. Icelandic casualities in WWII (2)
  6. The origin and hierarchy of ranks (2)
  7. Bookstores with WWII books
  8. Gehlen, Irving, and Vlasov
  9. SS Units.
 10. Military ranks (2)
 11. Arnhem battle
 12. U-Boot Feldpost
 13. Icel. Trawlers, war declaration etc
 14. Icelandic SS volunteer
 15. Icelandic Trawler losses
 16. Icelandic Trawler losses in WWII

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 00:38:01 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRV: P-51C Rivet Count

Anyone happen to know the number of rivets (or other similar trivia) on
the P-51C Mustang?  (P-51B is close enough).  Any sub-variant, even though
the rivet count on the basic airframe should be the same before modification.

I seem to have some recollection asking this some time ago, but no one seemed
to know the answer.  Just checking if anyone might now... :-)

[Yes, it's for a fund-raising effort for a P-51C...]

--
Robert J. Granvin                                             [email-masked]
University of Minnesota, School of Statistics
         "I'm my father?  I'm my mother?  I'm chipped beef on toast?"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 10:37:57 CET
From:    "LTC Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Patton

In answer to Bill's posting on Patton's burial site. . .
Patton was severely injured in a freak jeep accident near Mannheim, Germany
in late 1945 (Nov I think).   As I recall, his neck was broken, but nobody
else in the jeep received more than a few bumps and bruises.  Anyway, he
was taken to the Army hospital in Heidelberg where he "hung on" for
several weeks before succumbing to complications (primarily pneumonia)
in December.  He had asked to be buried with his men so ultimately
ended up in the military cemetary in Hamm, Luxembourg (near Luxembourg
city).  His original gravesite was in the ranks with the soldiers (many
of whom died in the "Battle of the Bulge"), but his gravesite proved
to be so popular that a path was being beaten down, so he was quietly
moved to the front of the group where he rests today.  Other than the
location, his grave marker is that of the common soldier.
                             Doug

                                          Doug Donnell
                                          Ruppertsweiler, GE

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 12:33:07 CET
From:    "LTC Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Patton

To update my previous posting re Patton (it always helps to look
things up).  The accident occurred on 9 Dec 1945 and Patton died on
21 Dec 45.  Included in complications causing death was an embolism.
He died quietly in his sleep.
                        Doug

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 07:17:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: USAAF 13 JAN 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 13 JANUARY 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-24, Douglas Dauntless
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 6 P-51's hit troop concentrations
at Lalawng Ga and bomb Maran Ga and Shaduzup; 27 P-40's attack a
communication center and dumps along the Kamaing-Mogaung road; and 4 P-51's
and a B-25 pound the airfield and supply area at Myitkyina.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): 2 B-25's on a sweep from Hong Kong to Hainan
Island attack 4 large boats, several warehouses, a radio station, and a car
at Fort Bayard, China; 1 of the vessels explodes; 6 P-40's on armed
reconnaissance strafe 4 pack trains of about 15 animals each between Lungling
and Tengchung.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Twentieth Air Force): Major General Kenneth B Wolfe,
Commanding General, arrives at New Delhi, India with the advanced echelon of
XX Bomber Command staff. This is the first important movement of personnel
for Operation MATTERHORN (the plan approved in Apr 44 for the bombing of
Japan by B-29's based in the Calcutta, India area and staging through
advanced fields in the Chengtu, China area).

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 193 B-26's bomb NOBALL (V-weapon)
targets in France. Fighter pilots report being tracked by AA rockets.
  Transfers in England: HQ 100th Fighter Wing from Greenham Common to Ibsley
and HQ 368th Fighter Group and 395th, 396th and 397th Fighter Squadrons to
Greenham Common from the US with P-47's; first mission is 14 Mar.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Italy, B-17's bomb
Centocelle and Guidonia airfields and B-24's hit Perugia airfield. P-38's
provide escort, and P-47's fly top cover for the B-17 missions. The heavy
bombers destroy several fighters in aerial combat.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25's and B-26's bomb
Guidonia, Centocelle, and Ciampino airfields; A-20's strike the town of Atina.
AAF, Royal Air Force (RAF), South African Air Force (SAAF), and Royal
Australian Air Force (RAAF) fighter-bombers hit shipping along the Dalmatian
coast at Sibenik and in the Krka River of Yugoslavia. A-36's hit the town and
railway yards at Isola del Liri, a factory at Colleferro, docks at Formia,
railroad yards at Valmontone, and a railway station SE of Frosinone. P-40's
hit Sant' Elia Fiumerapido, San Biagio, Saracinesa, and a rail and road
junction near Villa Latina.
  86th and 97th Bombardment Squadrons (Light), 47th Bombardment Group
(Light), transfer from Vincenzo Airfield to Vesuvius Airfield, Italy with
A-20's.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): In the Marshall Islands, 9
B-25's from Tarawa Atoll, Gilbert Islands attack harbor shipping at Wotje
Atoll; 21 A-24's from Makin Island, Gilbert Islands dive-bomb dock, barracks,
and storage area on Mille Atoll; some of the 16 escorting P-39's strafe
ground targets, and 10 other P-39's carry out strafing mission over Mille
Atoll.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): HQ Thirteenth Air Force
moves from Espiritu Santo, New Hebrides Islands to Guadalcanal, Solomon
Islands.
  During predawn hours 11 B-25's bomb Tobera, Rapopo, the Wide Bay area, and
coast S of Rapopo, New Britain Island. P-39's strafe Tinputs, Bougainville
Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): HQ V Fighter Command
transfers from Port Moresby to Nadzab, New Guinea and Major General Paul B
Wurtsmith becomes Commanding General, V Fighter Command.
  In New Guinea, 130+ B-24's, B-25's and P-40's attack Alexishafen. B-24's
bomb Gasmata Island off New Britain Island. B-24's and B-25's strike Kaukenau
and Timoeka, New Guinea and score hit on a freighter off Tanimbar Island,
Moluccas Islands.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 09:10:35 EST
From:    "William B. Thacker" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Waffen-SS

Jon Kay writes:

> As I understand it (correct me if I am wrong) the SS, unlike other
> German divisions, was an all-volunteer squad, composed of men who
> joined knowing full well that they would be responsible for the most
> morally questionable (I hope that euphemism please everyone)
> assignments of the war.

This is incorrect.

The Waffen SS was a very complex and heterogeneous organization, and such
blanket statements (and thus, blanket condemnations) are unreasonable.  One
can look at a unit like 1st SS Panzer "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler" and find
a crack combat unit, equipped with the best soldiers and equipment that
could be provided.  Did they commit war crimes?  Yes, I'm sure.  Did young
Germans join LAH with the intention or realization that such crimes would
be part of their jobs?  Ridiculous; any more than young Americans join
our army in the hopes that they would get to massacre entire villages of
Vietnamese civilians.

If we examine 3rd SS Panzer, "Totenkopf," the situation changes somewhat.
The division's original cadre was drawn from concentration camp guards who
volunteered for combat duty.   The unit was not composed entirely of such,
but there is more latitude to claim that those who volunteered for
Totenkopf had criminal intent from the start.

Next, consider the various "Friewilligen" (Free-will) SS units.  These were
composed of volunteers from occupied nations.  These troops often got the
worst equipment and in many (I would hazard to say "the great majority") of
cases joined in the desire to defeat communism.  There were probably some
who were zealous pro-Nazis; some hated Jews, and some just wanted a license
to kill and maim.

The point I wish to make is that there is no simple description of "the SS
soldier."  Reality defies the frequent attempts to stereotype them.  They
weren't all Nazis; they weren't even all German.  They weren't all elite.
Some were thugs, others were heroes.  You have to consider them as
individuals and examine the crimes and merits of each.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker             AT&T Network Systems       attmail!att!cbemf!wbt
(614) 860-5294           Columbus, Ohio              [email-masked]
                      Humpty Dumpty was pushed!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 09:23:52 -0600
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Icelandic casualities in WWII

Gudmundur,

     Thank you for filling us in on Icelandic losses.  You have
much to offer WWII-L, I think.

     Please do tell us about the mysterious loss of 2 Icelandic
trawlers.  We are always keen on what our Perfidious Albionese
brethren have been up to.  Wasn't there a more recent confronta-
tion at sea, as well?  How does Iceland go about declaring war?
(... other than by gathering down on the strand by the drakke
and clapping your swords on your shields, of course.)

Lou Coatney, Western Illinois University Library

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 09:26:37 -0600
From:    WILLIAM HUBER - SCDR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The origin and hierarchy of ranks

In Mr. van Vuren's message of  7 Jan 1994 at 1146 CST, he writes:

> Please enlighten me on the meaning of military ranks. Im not sure I understand
> how the different ranks are related. For instance, which is more senior: a
> leutenant general, brigadier general or major general?

Hi Johannes,

I was hoping somebody would jump in an field this one because I don't
know it in the detail you are asking.  I will post what I do know and
maybe some kind soul will post a correction or two and you will get
what your looking for.

Relation of ranks

US                           German Army          SS (as of 1945)

General of the Army (5 star) Generalfeldmarschal   Reichsfuhrer SS
General (4 star)             Generaloberst         Oberstgruppenfuhrer
Lieutenant General (3 star)  Gereral der Infantrie Obergruppenfuhrer
Major General (2 star)       Generalleutnant       Gruppenfuhrer
Brigadier General (1 star)   Generalmajor          Brigadefuhrer
                                                   Oberfuhrer
Colonel (O-6)                Oberst                Standartenfuhrer
Lieutenant Colonel (O-5)     Oberstleutnant        Obersturmbannfuhrer
Major  (O-4)                 Major                 Sturmbannfuhrer
Captain (O-3)                Hauptmann/Rittmeister Hauptsturmfuhrer
First Lieutenant (O-2)       Oberleutnant          Obersturmfuhrer
Second Lieutenant (O-1)      Leutnant              Untersturmfuhrer

Warrant officers (W1,2,3,4)  Fahnrichjunker
Command Sergeant Major (E-9) Stabsfeldwebel       Standartenoberjunker
Sergeant Major (E-9)
First Sergeant (E-8)         Hauptfeldwebel       Stabsscharfuhrer
Master Sergeant (E-7)
Sergeant First Class (E-6)   Oberfeldwebel        Hauptscharfuhrer
Staff Sergeant (E-5)         Feldwebel            Oberscharfuhrer
Sergeant (E-4)               Unterfeldwebel       Scharfuhrer
Corporal (E-3)               Unteroffizier        Unterscharfuhrer
                             Stabsgefreiter       Rottenfuhrer
                             Obergefreiter
Private First Class (E-2)    Gefreiter            Sturmmann
                             Obergrenadier        Oberschutze
Private (E-1)                Grenadier            Schutze
Private First Class (E-2)

> What are the origins
> and meaning of these terms and double names? Why are there leutenant colenells
> and colenells? Why not leutenant captains as well?

These go back to the time when Europe organized uniformed armies in the 1600s.
The names were reflective of the position or size of the unit involved.  These
derivations I am not sure of.  Our (US) ranks came very much from Great
Britain's system so you might have better luck finding these answers there.

> What is a "full" general?

In the US Army its a 4 star general.

> Why is a field marshall called such?

Got me foxed, we don't have 'em :-)

> Then there are exotic ranks like brigade sergent major and brevet sargent
> major. What do these terms mean and how did they come about?

A brevet rank is a rank that was once held by a man who was reduced in
rank due to no fault of his own.  This became very common (in the US)
after the Civil War when the Union Army dramatically reduced its size
but a large number of officers wished to stay in the army.  Many were
reduced in rank and position to fit in with the much smaller army.  George
A. Custer had attained the rank of Major General during the Civil War
but his title at the time of his death at the Little Big Horn (1876) was:
Lieutenant Colonel (Brevet Major General) George A. Custer.

The US Army does not have a Brigade Sergeant Major, the Brits do so maybe
we can get some of our friends there to chime in on this question.

> Perhaps one of you experts can post an essay here on the origin and evolution
> of military ranks. Would be facinating to read.

I claim no expertise in this area but since nobody else picked up the
gauntlet I figured that a partial answer is better than no answer.

Cheers, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 09:38:00 -0600
From:    WILLIAM HUBER - SCDR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bookstores with WWII books

In Mr. Helgason's message of 12 Jan 1994 at 1232 CST, he writes:

> Good day, would anyone have with him information on a good book store
> that would have a mail order section that would deal with WWII books,
> preferably also out of print books. I need mostly u-boat books but also
> other books about WWII navies and the fighting in general, including Air
> Forces and Armies.

You might send a wants list to:

Volume Control
955 Sandy Lane
Warminster, PA  18974-2643  USA

The owner is Jack Hatter and he deals in military history books both
in and out of print.  His prices are good too.

You can also write for a catalog from:

Battlefield Bookstore
1600 West Lake Street
Minneapolis, MN  55408

or dial 1-800-262-1944
      or  612-823-3711

Cheers, Bill Huber

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 10:50:16 EST
From:    Crane Conrad LTC <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The origin and hierarchy of ranks

>> Then there are exotic ranks like brigade sergent major and brevet sargent
>> major. What do these terms mean and how did they come about?
>
>A brevet rank is a rank that was once held by a man who was reduced in
>rank due to no fault of his own.  This became very common (in the US)
>after the Civil War when the Union Army dramatically reduced its size
>but a large number of officers wished to stay in the army.  Many were
>reduced in rank and position to fit in with the much smaller army.  George
>A. Custer had attained the rank of Major General during the Civil War
>but his title at the time of his death at the Little Big Horn (1876) was:
>Lieutenant Colonel (Brevet Major General) George A. Custer.
>
>
>Cheers, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

Bill,
     Brevet rank was basically an honorary title, awarded for gallant or
meritorious action in time of war. Today we use medals for such recognition.
Brevet rank had none of the authority, precedence, or pay of real rank
theoretically, but the regulations were so vague that controversies arose
throughout the Civil War and many officers, such as Custer, served as brevet
generals and commanded units accordingly.   1700 officers were eventually
breveted as Union generals during the war, and this abuse led to abandonment of
the system.
                                        LTC Con Crane
                                        USMA

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 10:33:15 -0600
From:    Paul Lehman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Gehlen, Irving, and Vlasov

Last night I took out Reinhard Gehlen's memoirs for the first time in more
than a decade and noticed that David Irving was the translator. Gehlen
talks about Eastern Troops at length (p. 73-82) and Vlasov in particular
(83-92). I was wondering what the general (or particular) response was to
this book (it was published in 1971 in German and 1972 in English)?

----------
[email-masked]

Postmodernism is not a theory, it's an accident waiting to happen.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 10:35:30 -0600
From:    WILLIAM HUBER - SCDR <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: SS Units.

In your message of 12 Jan 1994 at 2323 CST, you write:

Hi Gudmundur,

>         I read somewhere that Gestapo Muller defected to the Soviets
> during the final days of the war, or possibly a while after the may 7th.
> He has, as far as I know, never been located anywhere since but was
> presumed to be living east of the Iron Curtain from then on. I also
> think that he had some kind of socialist past that could explain his
> move to the Soviets and not to the South America.

Looks like another research project for me :-)

Thanks for the info on "Wiking".  I'll poke around and see what I can
find on Heinrich Muller.  It seems strange that a long time Nazi
would have early connections with a party that was diametrically
opposed to the platform of his party.  Could Muller have been what
they termed a "beefsteak Nazi" brown on the outside and red on the
inside (brown referring to the brownshirt the Nazis wore in the 1920s
and 30s)?
        Regards, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 11:42:20 -0500
From:    Akira Takiguchi <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Icelandic casualities in WWII

Gudmundur Helgason wrote:
>The
>Norwegians "bought" their captives back home after the war while the
>Danish did not.

     Fate of Waffen-SS volunteers differed from onecountry to another.  A
bad one:

     Dutch Waffen-SS volunteers were no longer Dutch citizens after the
war.  `` They were forced to carry around a passport certifying them as
"resident aliens" without the benefits of Dutch citizenship.''  (_Siegrunen_
No.39)  The cover of passport says "PASPOORT VOOR VREEMDELINGEN".  I don't
know if it is still in effect.

     BTW, there seemed at least one Icelandic volunteer.

     ``The Icelandic volunteer Odiussen ["Egidir"] Grettir, born 7 May 1910,
was a student in Germany when the war broke out.  In 1939/40 he joined the
Waffen-SS and subsequently served either with the "Wiking" or "Nord" Divisions.
He was last seen alive in Soviet captivity at the end of war.'' (_Siegrunen_
No.42)
--
      Akira Takiguchi  VP, ATSON, Inc.  (a subsidiary of the Asahi Shimbun)
             CANAL TOWER  9-3 Nihonbashi-Koamicho Chuo-ku Tokyo 103  Japan
   +81 3 3666 2881(voice) 2882(fax)  EMAIL TO <[email-masked]>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 11:42:28 -0500
From:    Akira Takiguchi <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Waffen-SS

Bill Thacker wrote:
>The point I wish to make is that there is no simple description of "the SS
>soldier."  Reality defies the frequent attempts to stereotype them.  They
>weren't all Nazis; they weren't even all German.  They weren't all elite.
>Some were thugs, others were heroes.  You have to consider them as
>individuals and examine the crimes and merits of each.

     I would like to add something:  This isn't limited to Waffen-SS, but
to any organization of any countries.  System and individual should be
carefully distinguished when argued.  "Individuals who were in a (large)
system (or a group) all deserved death" is a silly, to say the least, idea.

     Even one human being has a complicated history.  World history is not
just a collection of events.  It is an infinite accumlation of interactions
between human beings from the day 1.  Taking out an event in history to
blame somebody is easy;  but if you are sincere about history, you can't
do it easily.
--
      Akira Takiguchi  VP, ATSON, Inc.  (a subsidiary of the Asahi Shimbun)
             CANAL TOWER  9-3 Nihonbashi-Koamicho Chuo-ku Tokyo 103  Japan
   +81 3 3666 2881(voice) 2882(fax)  EMAIL TO <[email-masked]>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 13:18:56 -0500
From:    Warren Thompson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Military ranks

Field marshal (one "l" only) seems to be derived from the 13th-C word
"mareschal" which originally means "horse servant" or "groom." There
is a possibly apocryphal story that the US Army has no such rank because
the first one to be eligible was Gen George C. Marshall ... and having
a "Marshal Marshall" might have been strange.

-- Warren Thompson

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 16:00:24 -0500
From:    "Robert F. Kieran" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Waffen-SS

        From: Jon Kay <[email-masked]>

        As I understand it (correct me if I am wrong) the SS, unlike other
        German divisions, was an all-volunteer squad, composed of men who
        joined knowing full well that they would be responsible for the most
        morally questionable (I hope that euphemism please everyone)
        assignments of the war. If this is true (and I am waiting for someone
        to correct me if they know this to not the case) then the two
        elements of guilt are present: Evil intention and Evil action. I
        don't think that men were forced into the SS. If conscripted, could
        not soldiers simply enter into the ranks of the rank and file
        infantry?
        ------------------------------------------------
        above message from : [email-masked]
        ------------------------------------------------

Hello, All!

     I'd just like to elaborate a little on the excellent posts by
Bill Thacker and Akira on this thread.

     The Waffen SS was originally an all volunteer outfit. This lasted
until late 1942 or early 1943, when the manpower shortages really started
being felt. [This is all from my head, you understand;my references are
at home.] These early volunteers were motivated be a number of forces:
some were dedicated anti-communists; some were kids seeking adventure;
some were professsional soldiers of defeated countries, practicing the
only trade they knew; some were opportunists, looking to be part of the
'winning team'; and yes, a few were hardcore Nazis.

     Few joined to commit atrocities. You may search SS recruiting
literature in vain for anything which suggests that joining the Waffen SS
was a license to kill and maim. Please keep in mind that the actions
of the Einsatzkommandos and the activities of Auschwitz were state
secrets at the time. While they may have been an open secret the closer
that you got to the front, they were not boasted about in the recruiting
offices.

     In 1943, things changed. Volunteers for the Waffen SS tended to
dry up. There were several reasons for this: the high Waffen SS casualties
gave some pause; also, volunteers needed the permission of their local
recruiting office before they could be released to the Waffen SS. Since
the local recruiters were under pressure for more and more recruits to
flesh out new divsions and rebuild decimated ones, they were reluctant
to release men for the Waffen SS formations. something had to be done
if Himmler was to continue expanding his army.

     At this time, Gottlob Berger, one of Himmler's aides, came to him
with a suggestion to recruit ethnic Germans, the Volksdeutsche, into the
Waffen SS. [I believe Berger's son-in-law was from the Sudatenland (sp?).]
The Volksdeutsche were people of Germanic descent living in the occupied
lands. They were not liable for service in the Wehrmacht because they were
foreign citizens. This suited Himmler perfectly, and he set about forming
a number of Volksdeutsche formations. Volksdeutsche were drafted into
these formations, and pressure was even put on foreign governmets to
release Volksdeutsche serving in their armies so that they could be
drafted into the Waffen SS.While many Volksdeutsche served within formations
recruited from their native lands, a fair number were sent as replacements
to other Waffen SS divisions. Many of these men spoke no German, and
were not pleased at serving in the Waffen SS.

     Around this time, too, a draft was made on the German manpower pool:
the initial manpower for two new Waffen SS panzer divisions, 9. SS Panzer
Division Hohenstauffen and 10. SS Panzer Division Freundsberg, was DRAFTED
from the German manpower pool. This raised holy Hell on the homefront: many
parents, their ministers and priests, were concerned about their sons being
drafted into the "godless" Waffen SS. [Only certain foreign SS units had
chaplains as part of their establishments.] A compromise was reached,
whereby after completing basic training, each soldier would be given the
opportunity to either transfer to the Wehrmacht or remain with their
Waffen SS division. I think about 5 soldiers opted for transfers. [See Stein
for further details.]

     As to the criminality of the Waffen SS: Bill T. was right when he
said that each individual must be judged on his own merits, and not
according to which unit he belonged to.

     Oh, well. Sorry for the long post. Now it's back to work.

                                                Regards,
                                                Bob Kieran
                                                [email-masked]
References:

Thw Waffen SS: Hitler's Elite Guard At War, by George H. Stein

Order Of The Death's Head, by Heinz Hoehne

History and Organisation of the Waffen SS, by Hugh taylor and Roger Bender

Uniforms And History Of The SS, by Andrew Mollo

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 16:21:39 -0500
From:    "Robert F. Kieran" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Military ranks

        From: Warren Thompson <[email-masked]>
        Subject: Military ranks
        Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 13:18:56 -0500

        Field marshal (one "l" only) seems to be derived from the 13th-C word
        "mareschal" which originally means "horse servant" or "groom." There
        is a possibly apocryphal story that the US Army has no such rank because
        the first one to be eligible was Gen George C. Marshall ... and having
        a "Marshal Marshall" might have been strange.

        -- Warren Thompson

Well, actually, the U.S. kinda/sorta did have a field marshal:

     During World War I, General Pershing was a four star general, but
he was dealing with British and French marshals on a daily basis. Some
in Congress proposed promoting Pershing to Field Marshal, so that he
would be on an equal footing with his Allies. What they actually did,
though, was to promote Pershing to "General Of The Armies" [note plural]
and authorized him to wear 6 stars! Pershing never did add his extra two
stars.

     During World War II, the rank of "General Of The Army" was created
with an insignia of 5 stars. So, you might want to think of these two
ranks as "Lieutenant Field Marshal" and "Field Marshal". ;^)

                                                Regards,
                                                Bob Kieran
                                                [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 22:49:41 GMT
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: Arnhem battle

        When I read mr. Hubers reply to the question of Pattons grave I
thought about my visit to the Arnhem battle ground at the age of 15 in
1985. I dragged my entire family there much to their distress :) When I
walked  through those forests I find it hard to imagine the deaths that
took place there, it all seems so unreal as I have never seen a real
action. There is a small war museum which has a blown up Panzer III I
think, a "minefield" several artillery weapons and even a submarine! I
sure hope that this sub was not sailed there :)
        Does anyone have the number of casualities at this battle? I
know that 2 SS divisions fought there against the 101. and 82. US
division and the British 'Red Devils' (Not Manchester United :). I saw
somewhere 10.000 as the number. is that correct?

        Also in one of the books on the Bombing of Hamburg there is a
statement that says that the USAF does not wish to bury it's dead in a
foreign or enemies country and that the USAF crew members shot down over
Europe were therefore transported back to the States. Is this true? If
so, did all the Allied forces do this?

        Gudmundur Helgason

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 18:18:06 EST
From:    Ingalls Steven CPT <[email-masked]>
Subject: U-Boot Feldpost

Hello for the first time.

I am interested in knowing whether someone has insight as to how U-boots
received their Feldpost.  All vessels had Feldpost addresses (much like our APO
system with the Department of Defense today), but I've never come across any
source discussing the Feldpost system's service to ships at sea or U-boots.

Any insights are appreciated.

CPT Stephen Ingalls
United States Military Academy
West Point

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 23:25:27 GMT
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Icel. Trawlers, war declaration etc

>
> Gudmundur,
>
>      Thank you for filling us in on Icelandic losses.  You have
> much to offer WWII-L, I think.
>
>      Please do tell us about the mysterious loss of 2 Icelandic
> trawlers.  We are always keen on what our Perfidious Albionese
> brethren have been up to.  Wasn't there a more recent confronta-
> tion at sea, as well?  How does Iceland go about declaring war?
> (... other than by gathering down on the strand by the drakke
> and clapping your swords on your shields, of course.)
>
> Lou Coatney, Western Illinois University Library
>

   Lou,

        I am still looking into the fates of those trawlers that went
down with all hands during the war (I dont want to say something that I
cannot stand by as I was told that there were SHARP people on this list
:) but they both were on a journey to Britain to sell their fish
(Icelandic trawlers made over 2000 journeys during the war to the UK).
These fish transports were vital to the UK as their own fishing fleets
had largely been drafted into the RN for varius duties.

        The only think that I can think of about those "more recent
confrontation" is the two "cod wars" that we won against the British in
1972 and 1976 :) We had only 4 mini-gunboats that were frequently struck
by Britsh frigates and tug boats (manned by harbour criminals). The
Britsh lost due to our resistance and also due to heavy international
pressure from both the NATO and the UN. They suffered amazing damage as
one frigate was heavily damaged after trying to sink our Tyr (commanded
by our best captain) and another frigate was also much damaged.

        I dont think that Iceland has any declaration of war statement
as we dont have any army, no air force and just 2 active gunboats (with
WWI danish guns). We have a contract with the US that says that if we
are attacked then Uncle Sam will come to our aid (I think we are the
only country that has this kind of deal with the US, it was signed in
1948 I think and is for 99 years).

        BTW, We dropped our Shields and Swords in the 14th century
mostly and then the Wiking tradition died and the Danish came and
stepped all over us.

        Gudmundur Helgason

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 23:35:26 GMT
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Icelandic SS volunteer

> Akira Takiguchi writes:
>
>      BTW, there seemed at least one Icelandic volunteer.
>
>      ``The Icelandic volunteer Odiussen ["Egidir"] Grettir, born 7 May 1910,
> was a student in Germany when the war broke out.  In 1939/40 he joined the
> Waffen-SS and subsequently served either with the "Wiking" or "Nord" Divisions.
> He was last seen alive in Soviet captivity at the end of war.'' (_Siegrunen_
> No.42)
> --

        Akira,
        Are you sure about this Waffen SS volunteer? The name is very
strange to me and can it be spelled incorrectly in your post? I can
imagine the name as: Grettir Odinsson (I cant figure out the "Egidir").
If this is true then this is a totally unknown here in Iceland as we
know only about two SS volunteers here. One of them was even the son of
our first President in 1944 and the other was kalled "The Icelandic
Devil" by the Norwegians (They both served in Norway and both came home
after trials in Norway after the war). They were not Waffen-SS men but
some kind of interrogation specialists and the Presidents son ran a
Danish nazi radio station for a while.

        Akira I thank you for this new info (there has NEVER been talked
about an Icelander in Soviet captivity after the war.

What is _Siegrunen?? Is that is SS manual or something?

Gudmundur Helgason

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 14 Jan 1994 01:07:30 GMT
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: Icelandic Trawler losses

        Lou,

        You wanted to know about our Trawler losses in WWII. Ok, here is
what I have found out:

        Trawlers that went down in explained incidents:

     Bragi             30. Okt 1940       Rammed near England (ca 15 dead)
     Reykjaborg        10. March 1941     Sunk by U-boat      (ca 15 dead)
     Fjolnir           11. April 1945     Rammed by UK postal ship, 5 dead

        Trawlers that disappeared in the war:

     Gullfoss          27. Feb 1941       (I Dont have location)(ca 15 dead)
     Svidi              2. Dec 1941       (I dont have location)(ca 15 dead)

     Jon Olafsson      He sailed from UK (propably Fleetwood) on the
23rd Okt 1942 towards Iceland on his 17th UK sailing. He was seen the
next day on course and in top shape by an outgoing Icelanic trawler but
was never heard from again. He was 425 tons (to small a target for
U-boats) and 13 men went down with him.

     Max Pemperton     He was on its way to Reykjavik from the north
fishing grounds on the 11. jan 1944 and was heard from at 0730 that
morning and nothing after that. His crew had made 12 UK sailings and was
among the very best we had and the weather was not bad enough to explain
this loss. 29 went down with him.

There is also another ship called Sudin that was twice shot at by
trigger happy Britsh soldiers when aproaching two of our western
harbours and was also heavily attacked by a Focke Wolf Condor aircraft
on the 16th of June 1943 causing loss of 2 lives and all others were
injured my machine guns.

These are just the biggest ship (also two transporters which were sunk by
U-boats with 40 men, women, and children dead.) Also many smaller
vessels went down one way or the other.

Gudmundur Helgason

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 14 Jan 1994 01:29:35 GMT
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: Icelandic Trawler losses in WWII

>From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jan 14 01:07 GMT 1994
Received: by rvik.ismennt.is (16.8/ISnet/11-02-92); Fri, 14 Jan 94 01:07:31 GMT
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 1:07:30 GMT
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Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

        Lou,

        You wanted to know about our Trawler losses in WWII. Ok, here is
what I have found out:

        Trawlers that went down in explained incidents:

     Bragi             30. Okt 1940       Rammed near England (ca 15 dead)
     Reykjaborg        10. March 1941     Sunk by U-boat      (ca 15 dead)
     Fjolnir           11. April 1945     Rammed by UK postal ship, 5 dead

        Trawlers that disappeared in the war:

     Gullfoss          27. Feb 1941       (I Dont have location)(ca 15 dead)
     Svidi              2. Dec 1941       (I dont have location)(ca 15 dead)

     Jon Olafsson      He sailed from UK (propably Fleetwood) on the
23rd Okt 1942 towards Iceland on his 17th UK sailing. He was seen the
next day on course and in top shape by an outgoing Icelanic trawler but
was never heard from again. He was 425 tons (to small a target for
U-boats) and 13 men went down with him.

     Max Pemperton     He was on its way to Reykjavik from the north
fishing grounds on the 11. jan 1944 and was heard from at 0730 that
morning and nothing after that. His crew had made 12 UK sailings and was
among the very best we had and the weather was not bad enough to explain
this loss. 29 went down with him.

There is also another ship called Sudin that was twice shot at by
trigger happy Britsh soldiers when aproaching two of our western
harbours and was also heavily attacked by a Focke Wolf Condor aircraft
on the 16th of June 1943 causing loss of 2 lives and all others were
injured my machine guns.

These are just the biggest ship (also two transporters which were sunk by
U-boats with 40 men, women, and children dead.) Also many smaller
vessels went down one way or the other.

Gudmundur Helgason

PS: How do I stamp a response to certain person like you or Akira? I
seem to send all my letters to all subscribers in general. I am new to
elm so I dont know to much about this mailing system :)

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 12 Jan 1994 to 13 Jan 1994
*************************************************