Subject: WWII-L Digest - 23 Mar 1994 to 24 Mar 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 00:00:38 -0500

There are 53 messages totalling 1605 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. DOC: Jurgen Rohwer's Chronology? (2)
  2. Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd) (15)
  3. INF: FRANCE MAGAZINE ON LETTERS HOME
  4. TAC Re: Joint Command Cooperation Between US Forces
  5. Re[2]: Nost: Warbird's crash (4)
  6. Nost: Warbird's crash
  7. Barrage Balloons (2)
  8. No Poles in Eastern Poland! Hmmmm. (2)
  9. Cooperation among Japanese forces (2)
 10. GEN: Mistreatment German POWs? (3)
 11. Is Paris Burning?
 12. Re[2]: Re[2]: Nost: Warbird's crash
 13. INF: USAAF 24 MAR 44
 14. WEAP: Bv-141 and Fw-189
 15. Alsace/Colmar; command cooperation
 16. INF-Aleutian Islands (2)
 17. Info will be provided
 18. GEN: German Soldiers on British Soil? (3)
 19. Ike
 20. For Terry Moore (2)
 21. Polish anthem (3)
 22. INF: Lucian Truscott
 23. Veteran aircraft: to fly or to display
 24. GEN: German soldiers on British Soil

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 23:13:10 CST
From:    Steve Alvin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: DOC: Jurgen Rohwer's Chronology?

Larry,

I don't know how you would "review" a chronology.  But, I have
the book and I find it to be an invaluable reference tool.  It
has just about EVERYTHING one could ask for in chronicling the
war at sea.  The authors have tapped an international pool to
help them and much of the information, such as naval actions
in the Black Sea and Baltic, is just not available in English.
The multiple indexes are wonderful, making it possible to locate
almost any ship, convoy, person, etc you want.  I've used it
in many of my posts to the list.  I urge you to buy it.

--
Steve Alvin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 21:39:47 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

"The Merlin-powered P-51 was truly the Cadillac of the sky", you say
        Surely, you meant the *Rolls-Royce* of the sky...
:-)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 21:59:51 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: FRANCE MAGAZINE ON LETTERS HOME

Where is the book available?

  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic. |    economic, social, political     |
  |                                  |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |                                  |  B-25 in WWII.                     |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 23:42:19 EST
From:    "CARL WERNKE (TCWERNC@VCCSCENT)" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC Re: Joint Command Cooperation Between US Forces

 X-To: [email-masked]
 To: Multiple recipients of List WWII-L ([email-masked])

 Ben, Ian, Ray, Willis, et al,

 Secretary of the Navy Forrestal wrote in his diary of a talk with General
 MacArthur on 28 February 1945: "He said he felt that our strength should be
 reserved for use in the Japanese mainland, on the plain of Tokyo and that
 this could not be done without the assurance that the Japanese would be
 heavily engaged by the Russians in Manchuria. He expressed doubt that the use
 of anything less than sixty divisions by the Russians would be sufficient."
 MacArthur sent a message to the Joint Chiefs, read at their meeting on
 18 June, in which he stated that in the proposed ground assault on Japan by
 his armies "the hazzard and loss will be greatly lessened if an attack is
 launched from Siberia sufficiently ahead of our target date to commit the
 enemy to major combat."

 As early as November, 1944, the Joint Staff Planners had been working on
 DOWNFALL, the plan for the invasion of Japan. Late that month the Joint
 Chiefs of Staff tentatively approved their planning draft for Operation
 OLYMPIC, the assault on Kyushu, to begin 1 September 1945, and Operation
 CORONET, the invasion of Honshu, to be launched 1 December 1945. The
 campaigns on Leyte, Luzon, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa each lasted far longer than
 anticipated, so that by spring, 1945, the Joint Chiefs realized that
 OLYMPIC and CORONET would have to be postponed, if they were conducted at all.

 An actual directive for OLYMPIC was delayed through much of the spring because
 of the Joint Chiefs' indecision about the best method of inducing Japan's
 capitulation.

 At Manila in mid-May 1945, GEN MacArthur and ADM Nimitz reached agreement on
 the broad principles for OLYMPIC and submitted their proposals to the Joint
 Chiefs. The directive for OLYMPIC was issued by the Joint Chiefs on 25 May,
 setting the target date for 1 November and giving MacArthur the chief
 responsibility for the entire operation, including control, under certain
 exigencies, of the amphibious assault through the appropriate naval
 commander. He was also directed to make plans and preparations for CORONET
 in cooperation with Nimitz. The naval and amphibious phases of OLYMPIC
 were assigned to Nimitz. MacArthur and his planners in Manila immediately
 set to work on the operational details of OLYMPIC.

 This was one of the major Joint Command cooperation plans of the Pacific
 war, which fortuitously did come to fruition.

  Ex Scientia Trident

 Carl Wernke
 [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 23:15:48 +0000
From:    John Behrens <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Nost: Warbird's crash

> You don't see them running the Daytona 500 with 1966 Dodges with 426 Hemi's
> or 69 Pontiac GTOs

No, but they do have vintage car races and ralleys, with the likes of old
Ferraris, Maseratis, Lotuses, Jaguars, etc. from the 1930s, 40s and 50s.
So this is not just limited to old aircraft.

                                        John

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 23:06:46 +0000
From:    John Behrens <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Nost: Warbird's crash

> Rutan developed a small twin-boom plane with a pair of Nissan auto engines.
> It crashed at Reno last spring and I haven't heard more.

The sad part about the this crash was the pilot was killed.  I think the
cause of the crash was engine failure (sound familiar), but this time it
was the engine control computer (theres a new one to the unlimited race
class) that overheated and failed, causing the engine to die.  I believe
the problem lay in heat shielding the computer, because I believe it is
located just behind the engine, therefore it gets showered with
considerable heat from the engine.  I believe this is the case, but am
not sure.  Anyone out there know even more. Dick?

                                        John

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 23:01:42 +0000
From:    John Behrens <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Nost: Warbird's crash

On Wed, 23 Mar 1994, Tim not Timothy Scherrer wrote:

> Many rich amatuer pilots buy up the P-51's, and other
> fighters.  Because they have more dollars than sense, they tend to crash
> them in air races, or just hot doging.  Anyone else heard this
> before--any comments on it?

In many cases this happens.  That wasn't the case here though.  Planes of
Fame Museum is a very respectable organization that treats their planes
with the utmost care, some feel better than the CAF, though I know there
is at least one person on this list that will disagree.  Their Super
Corsair was their one and only race plane.  They also have an unmodified
Corsair.  This particular plane was heavily modified and could almost be
considered a new plane that looked like a Corsair.  The loss is still
tragic, but not as much as if an authentic, unmodified aircraft had gone
in.

All this brings up a recuring question.  Should all old aircraft be
grounded as museum pieces to preserve them and what they represent?  Or
are the aircraft from that era that are flying today so heavily doctored
that they do not physically represent the era from which they come from?
Are the only ones that do the ones that were yanked from the front line
as soon as the war ended and preserved for postarity, engine oil, firing
pins, dented control surfaces and all?  Comments?

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 23:11:38 +0000
From:    John Behrens <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Barrage Balloons

> I guess they might keep
> fighters from strafing runs. Just wondering.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> John Davis              | He's the boogie-woogie |      [email-masked]
> Cary, N.C.              | bugle boy of Company B.|                [email-masked]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

That was thier primary duty.  They were put up around targets that were
considered good targets for straffing.  Places like railroad marshalling
yards.  In this capacity, I believe they were quite sucessful.

                                John

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 07:41:43 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: No Poles in Eastern Poland! Hmmmm.

On Wed, 23 Mar 1994 [email-masked] wrote:

> Peter Beal's remarks about Eastern Poland not being Polish,
>   because of a lack of Poles would be funny, if the history
>   were not so tragic.
>
> Peter, check out the recent book edited by Keith Sword.  The
>   estimates are that over 1 million Polish men, women, and
>   children were transported to Soviet concentration camps in
>   1940.

I refer to Map 3, on page 64 of Len Deighton's "Blitzkreig".  OK, not a
leading historian, but I am sure he did *his* homework.  His map of
Poland, 1939, is divided into three parts.  Roughly, a line is drawn,
north-south through Brest-Litovsk and the 40% of Poland east of that line
is further divided by an east-west line at the latitude of Brest-Litovsk.
In the "northeastern" quadrent is noted "White Russians-1 million", with a
Lithuanian population indicated along the border with Lithuania; the
"southeastern" quadrent is noted "Ukranians - 3.75 million" while the
"western" half of the country is noted "Poles-18.75 millions" with a
German population along the border with German.

The text, after describing the above, states "The Poles-about 19 million
of them-lived in the western half of Poland"  There were also 2 million
Jews living in Poland.

Of course the ethnic "borders" are not contiguous with international or
internal borders.  There are (were?) pockets of Germans in Hungary and
Rumania, Hungarians in Rumania and Yugoslavia, etc., etc.  The eastern
borders of Poland were determined after the Russian rout at the gates of
Warsaw at a time when Denikin (I think) was advancing from the south
(again).  Thus they were not determined by ethnic distribution.

Incidently, the first line of the Polish national anthem, at least the
pre-WWII version, starts off with "Lithuania, my homeland....".  Of
course, they were one country in the 17th (?) century.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 06:27:04 -0500
From:    Daniel Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

>      (As you probably are already aware) those Spanish 109s
> were engined with Rolls-Royce Merlins, the engine powering
> the Spit.  The Merlin-powered 109 had the best performance
> of ANY of the 109s.
>
Yes, and wasn't the Spitfire (or more likely, the Hurricane) powered by a
German Junkers Jumo engine in its test trials because the Merlin wasn't
ready?

>      As so beautifully depicted in the film "Empire of the
> Sun,"  the P-51 certainly was "The Cadillac of the Skies."
>
One of the things that struck me about the film was that the Zeros were
faked up from training planes. (The Zero fuselage was drawn out to a
point at the tail, with the tailfin and rudder mounted atop. In the
movie, the rudder was aft of the actual fuselage, so that the "point"
moved with it.) Presumably Spielberg couldn't get a working Zero for the
job, whereas they were plenty of Mustangs for the fly-by toward the end.

Another reason to mourn when a warbird crashes: the movies about them
necessarily become more faked.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 06:47:00 -0500
From:    Daniel Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Cooperation among Japanese forces

Reading (somewhat belatedly) John Toland's BUT NOT IN SHAME, I note that
when the veteran 48th division was pulled out of the Philippines to aid
in the invasion of Java, it was replaced by an understrength reserve
division under a General Nara. Nara had to rush down the Bataan road with
exhausted and untrained troops trying to catch up with the
American/Filipino army. The 48th division left him no maps and evidently
gave him no briefing. He was totally misinformed about enemy
dispositions, a fact that no doubt helped MacArthur defend Bataan and get
his troops off to Coregidor.

This seems to have been typical of Japanese operations. The army's 21st
Hikotai (a composite group) attacked Kunming on Dec 20 1941 and had 3
bombers out of 10 shot down by the AVG Flying Tigers. The Japanese were
based in Hanoi. The Japanese air force in China had regarded 10 percent
losses as "prohibitive," yet here was a 30 percent loss and the commander
evidently kept it to himself, for three days later Japanese army heavy
bombers attacked Rangoon from Cambodia without fighter escort, and were
similarly mauled by the AVG and RAF squadrons there.

Dan Ford      <e-mail: [email-masked]>

              <postal: 433 Bay Road, Durham NH 03824 USA>
              <voice or fax: +1-603-868-5850>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 07:30:23 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

> >      As so beautifully depicted in the film "Empire of the
> > Sun,"  the P-51 certainly was "The Cadillac of the Skies."
> >
> One of the things that struck me about the film was that the Zeros were
> faked up from training planes. (The Zero fuselage was drawn out to a
> point at the tail, with the tailfin and rudder mounted atop. In the
> movie, the rudder was aft of the actual fuselage, so that the "point"
> moved with it.) Presumably Spielberg couldn't get a working Zero for the
> job, whereas they were plenty of Mustangs for the fly-by toward the end.

I believe that the Zeros were the ones rebuilt from T-6s (and the Navy ver.)
for "Tora, Tora, Tora".

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 07:33:53 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Cooperation among Japanese forces

>
> Reading (somewhat belatedly) John Toland's BUT NOT IN SHAME, I note that
> when the veteran 48th division was pulled out of the Philippines to aid
> in the invasion of Java, it was replaced by an understrength reserve
> division under a General Nara. Nara had to rush down the Bataan road with
> exhausted and untrained troops trying to catch up with the
> American/Filipino army. The 48th division left him no maps and evidently
> gave him no briefing. He was totally misinformed about enemy
> dispositions, a fact that no doubt helped MacArthur defend Bataan and get
> his troops off to Coregidor.

Isn't this the unit which had a subunit get lost in the mountains for day,
then come out exactly where they started?  The commander reported to his
superior who was sympathetic and ordered to rest his old men and cripples.
The commander misunderstood and thought he was being reprimanded, so he
took his men back into the mountains and got lost AGAIN, only when they
emerged this time, they were in the gap between the 31st Infantry and
a Philippine Army unit, and attacked, breaking the Allied line.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 06:38:59 -0600
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: GEN: Mistreatment German POWs?

On Mon, 21 Mar 1994, Stan Koper wrote:

> Much deleted.  It was getting a bit long.
>
> Mr. Bryant, you may be talking to different POW's.  I recall
> that during the 1970's, when the survivors of the Sagan camp
> (Stalag Luft VII?) wanted to have their former commandant come to
> one of their reunions, persons who had spent the war
> in other camps (particularly those for infantry and/or enlisted
> personnel) raised a fuss.  Their point was that RHIP extended
> to wartime captivity, and the experience of the EM was *very*
> different from that of their officers. I can't recall the author's
> name, but the novel _Prisoners of Combine D_ gives some idea of
> the experience of those who were not of the officer class.
>
> Stan Koper
> [email-masked]
>
Mr. Koper,
        Thank you for the book information.  Is it a Historical novel or
documentary? Just interested.

Thanks,
C.K. Bryant

"The Riskier the road, the greater the profit."
        The 62nd Rule of Acquisition

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 07:55:18 -0500
From:    Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Nost: Warbird's crash

> > You don't see them running the Daytona 500 with 1966 Dodges with 426 Hemi's
> > or 69 Pontiac GTOs
>
> No, but they do have vintage car races and ralleys, with the likes of old
> Ferraris, Maseratis, Lotuses, Jaguars, etc. from the 1930s, 40s and 50s.
> So this is not just limited to old aircraft.

I don't think it is the same full bore competition that unlimited air racing
is. It is also not the 'Big Show' in the sport. Besides if you blow an engine
and go off the coarse in an old jag you may bend some metal and have an engine
to replace. You do that in an F8F and you end up with some scrap aluminum
spread across the desert.

Bob Smart ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 07:01:50 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Is Paris Burning?

Hello, Don!

> I saw the movie. I can remember a delicious feeling of Eurosmart
> superiority when somebody told Glen Ford (Omar Bradley?) that the
> American army was 80 km from Paris. "let's see," Glen Ford replied, "that
> would be about 50 miles." Yep, just about!

    So did I. It was most interesting factually, but the casting, I
felt left much to be desired. After all, Kirk Douglas as Patton?

    Thanks again, Don.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 00:02:26 CST
From:    Steve Alvin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

I always thought that the Me-109K-4 with its 2000 hp Daimler
Benz DB 605 ASCM engine, which gave the plane a top speed of
451 mph at 6,000 m was the fastest of the breed, including the
Merlin-powered HA-1112-M-1-L.

--
Steve Alvin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 14:42:20 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

On Wed, 23 Mar 1994 [email-masked] wrote:

>      (As you probably are already aware) those Spanish 109s
> were engined with Rolls-Royce Merlins, the engine powering
> the Spit.  The Merlin-powered 109 had the best performance
> of ANY of the 109s.

I don't have the figures for the Spanish 109's at hand, but they always
seemed rather modest to me, especially compared with the 724km/h that was
managed by the Me 109K-4. After all, they were Me 109G airframes. I also
understand that handling suffered (It was commented that the restored Me
109G G-USTV had much better handling than the Spanish Me 109's that the
pilots had flown earlier.)

> efficient airframe) the '51 had much better performance
> and endurance.  (It has been wondered if the British
> stuck with the Spit airframe out of nationalism or
> defense establishment/employment characteristic.)

The Spitfire had its advantages. Later versions used the R.R. Griffon, and
thus had a lot more power than the P-51, and they had a lighter airframe,
giving better overall performance. Despite being an older design, with a
less efficient airframe than the P-51, the Spitfire had a higher limiting
mach number, a fortuitous result of that wide-chord, thin wing. The climb
of late Spitfires was difficult to match, even for jet fighters. With the
introduction of 20mm cannon, the Spitfire was also better armed than the
P-51. On the other hand, the aircraft had a relatively short range.

The P-51 remained an all-round and escort fighter, while the Spitfire grew
into specialized niches, as low- and high-altitude interceptor, V-1
interceptor, reconaissance aicraft and carrier fighter.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 07:57:50 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: Nost: Warbird's crash

I wasn't suggesting, and do not think warbirds should be grounded--they
do need to be babied, and not flown in races.  Just good basic flying
that allows them to be shown to people---no dive bombing, nothing fancy.
TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 09:15:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 24 MAR 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 24 MARCH 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 3 B-24s fly a photographic mission over
Onnekotan Island.

  CARIBBEAN (Sixth Air Force): HQ 25th Bombardment Group (Medium) and 12th,
35th and 417th Bombardment Squadrons (Medium) begin a movement from Borinquen
Field, Puerto Rico; Coolidge Field, Antigua; Trinidad; and Losey Field,
Puerto Rico respectively to the US; all will be disbanded on 20 Jun 44.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In the Mandalay, Burma area 12 B-24s and 10
P-38s bomb Pyingaing dump, 9 B-25s hit Shwebo railroad yards and a nearby
factory, and 8 P-51s attack Gokteik Viaduct; 4 P-40s bomb Japanese positions
near Shaduzup.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 277: The B-17 primary
target is Schweinfurt, Germany; the B-24 primary target are airfields at Metz
and Nancy, France; the bombers make no claims of Luftwaffe aircraft:
  1. 230 B-17s are dispatched; 60 hit Schweinfurt using blind-bombing
equipment and 162 hit Frankfurt/Main marshalling yard; 3 B-17s are lost, 3
damaged beyond repair and 68 damaged; casualties are 14 KIA, 1 WIA and 30
MIA.
  2. 206 B-24s are dispatched; the primaries are overcast and 148 hit the
secondary target of St Diziere Airfield and 33 hit Nancy/Essey Airfield; 24
B-24s are damaged; casualties are 3 WIA.
  Escort is provided by 84 P-38s, 301 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and
155 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s; details are:
  P-38s: 2 lost, both pilots MIA.
  P-47s claim 1-0-0 Luftwaffe aircraft in the air and 2-0-4 on the ground;
no losses.
  P-51s: no claims; 3 P-51s are lost; 2 pilots are MIA.
  Mission 278: 5 of 5 B-17s drop 250 bundles of leaflets on Tours and
Lorient, France; and Charleroi, Brussels and Antwerp, Belgium at 2133-2210
hours without loss.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Italy, 100+ B-24s bomb
Rimini marshalling yard while 32 others attack Ancona, Senigallia and rail
and road bridges over the Vomano River S of Giulianova; 200+ other B-17s and
B-24s turn back before reaching the target and before rendezvous with the
fighter escorts; and 3 B-17s and 1 B-24 hit targets of opportunity in Italy
and Yugoslavia; 6 B-24s are lost; the bombers claim 10 enemy fighters
destroyed.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s pound supply and
bivouac areas in Piedimonte and Castrocielo and harbor installations at
Leghorn; B-25s hit bridge and railroad tracks NW of Orvieto, and A-20s bomb
guns in the Cassino area; P-40s and A-36s in Cassino area hit guns, troop
concentrations, road, and causeway; and P-47s on armed reconnaissance in the
Rome-Orvieto-Orte areas hit a train and a bridge.
  Moves in Italy: 11th Troop Carrier Squadron, 60th Troop Carrier Group, from
Gerbini, Sicily to Brindisi with C-47s; 487th and 489th Bombardment Squadrons
(Medium), 340th Bombardment Group (Medium), from Pompeii to Gaudo Airfield
with B-25s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-25s from Tarawa Atoll bomb
Jaluit while others, flying out of Eniwetok Atoll, hit Ponape Island and Ant
Island, Caroline Islands.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On New Britain Island, 20+
B-25s hit the airstrip at Tobera; a few which lost contact with the formation
bomb Vunakanau instead; and 30+ P-38s, P-39s, and P-40s hit Wunapope with
incendiary clusters, causing numerous fires.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, P-39s and
P-40s hit Alexishafen with a dive bombing and strafing attack at midday; a
single B-24 bombs nearby Sek Island; other B-24s on armed reconnaissance
score a hit on a minesweeper. Organized Japanese resistance ends on Los
Negros and Bougainville Islands, although considerable time will be required
for mopping-up operations.
  HQ 475th Fighter Group moves from Dobodura to Nadzab, New Guinea.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 09:26:27 -0500
From:    Ron Babuka <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

>
>Bob Smart,
>
>     (As you probably are already aware) those Spanish 109s
>were engined with Rolls-Royce Merlins, the engine powering
>the Spit.  The Merlin-powered 109 had the best performance
>of ANY of the 109s.
>
        I may be wrong but if my memories serve me correctly, the CASA
built    109's may have improved straight-line peformance but I think that
their performance was not particularly good.  The change in different
engine adversly effected the COG and the overhandling.  I remeber reading
an article where a pilot used to operating Daimler powered 109's found the
CASA's to be skittish, akward to coordinate, and suffered from dangerous
stall characteristics.  Of course my disclaimer is I read this article
while I was still in high school.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka
Cornell University
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 09:33:08 EST
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Bv-141 and Fw-189

Here is some information I've found last night about the Blohm und Voss Bv-141
and the Focke-Wulf Fw-189 Uhu:

In 1937, the RLM published specifications for a short-range reconnaissance/
observation and army-cooperation aircraft, with an excellent visibility in
all directions. Arado, Focke-Wulf and Hamburger Flugzeugbau (Blowh und Voss)
answered with their proposals. Dr. Richard Vogt, from Hamburger Flugzeugbau,
proposed a strange asymetric design, with a BMW 132N, 865 hp radial engine
installed in front of a fuselage-nacelle, located on the left side, while
the crew station (cockpit) was located on the right side.

The Focke-Wulf design was more conventional. It was a low-wing monoplane,
with the crew station (cockpit module) located at the wing center, and
two booms, with one engine in front of each boom, and a tail fin at rear,
linked by an horizontal stabilizer. The cockpits of both designs were very
similar. Kurt Tank, the designer, was also the first man to flight the
Focke-Wulf prototype, in July 1938.

The Focke-Fulf design, Fw-189 Uhu, was selected. However, Blohm und Voss
decided to build one prototype of the asymetric design, designated Bv-141.
The Bv-141 made her maiden flight in February 25, 1938. Two more prototypes
were built, slightly wider than the first prorotype. The armament carried
consisted in 2 fixed MG17, 7.92mm machine guns in front, and 2 movable MG15,
7.92mm at rear. It could also carry a camera and four 50 kg bombs.

The initial tests of the Bv-141 prototypes had enough success, so, the RLM
ordered five pre-production aircraft, designated Bv-141A. These aircraft
had larger wingspan (15.45 m) and wing area (42.86 m2), and were powered
by a BMW-Bramo 323, 1000 hp radial engine.

In April 1940, the production program was cancelled, due to the lack of
power of the Bv-141A. Five more aircraft were ordered, with many design
changes, and designated Bv-141B. These aircraft were larger, and more
powerful. The engine was a BMW 801A, 1560 hp radial engine. The wing was
enlarged one more time (17.46 m), and the horizontal stabilizer was moved
completely to the left, to give the crew a better visibility and field of
fire. The armament remained unchanged. Crew members reported that this
version was quite difficult to handle, compared with the previous version.
Finally, all further development was abandoned in 1943, since the Fw-189
fulfilled all the expected requirements.

The Fw-189 was built in many versions, with a total of 864 aircraft. It
was easy to handle, and pilots liked her flying characteristics and her
versatility.

Here are the specifications of both aircraft:

Blohm und Voss Bv-141B-0
------------------------
Type            : Short-range reconnaissance/observation aircraft
Engine          : One BMW 801A, 1560 hp radial engine
Max. Speed (Sea): 370 km/h
Service Ceiling : 10000 m
Max. Range      : 1200 km
Weight (Empty)  : 4700 kg
Max. Weight     : 5700 kg

Wingspan        : 17.46 m
Length          : 13.95 m
Height          :  3.60 m
Wing Area       : 53.00 m2

Armament        : Two fixed MG17, 7.92 mm machine guns (front)
                  Two movable MG15, 7.92 mm machine guns (rear)
                  Four 50 kg bombs

Focke-Wulf Fw-189A-1 Uhu
------------------------
Type            : Short-range reconnaissance aircraft
Engine          : Two Argus As-410A-1, 12 cilynders, 465 hp engines
Max. Speed (Sea): 335 km/h
Cruise Speed    : 315 km/h
Service Ceiling : 7000 m
Max. Range      : 670 km
Max. Flight Time: 2:20 hours
Weight (Empty)  : 2805 kg
Max. Weight     : 3950 kg

Wingspan        : 18.40 m
Length          : 12.03 m
Height          :  3.10 m
Wing Area       : 38.00 m2

Armament        : Two fixed MG17, 7.92 mm machine guns (front)
                  Two movable MG15, 7.92 mm machine guns (rear)
                  Four SC50, 50 kg bombs

I can't find any information about the Arado design. Maybe it was never built,
or it received an experimental designation (like E-xxx). If anyone of you has
any information of this aircraft, please post it.

Have a nice day,

Jorge

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 09:08:23 -0500
From:    Stan Koper <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: Mistreatment German POWs?

>On Mon, 21 Mar 1994, Stan Koper wrote:
>
>> Much deleted.  It was getting a bit long.
>>
>> different from that of their officers. I can't recall the author's
>> name, but the novel _Prisoners of Combine D_ gives some idea of
>> the experience of those who were not of the officer class.
>>
>Mr. Koper,
>        Thank you for the book information.  Is it a Historical novel or
>documentary? Just interested.
>Thanks,
>C.K. Bryant

I suspect that it is a "documentary" novel.  I have the author's
name now, it is Len Giovannitti.  The book was published in 1957
by Holt, and is based on Giovannitti's own experience as an
enlisted POW.  Other than library copies, it's probably out of
print.  The book I was *trying* to locate is _Stalag III:  The
Secret Story_, by Arthur Durand, published by Louisiana State
University Press, in 1988.

Mr. Durand's book comments on Giovannitti's gloomy view of
camp life (prisoners were grouped, within barracks, into
"combines", for the purpose of mutual support--meal preparation,
etc.), suggesting that it was somewhat excessive.  It has been a
long time since I read _The Prisoners..._, so I can't comment
one way or the other.

_Stalag III_ is very dry and dense, but judging from the
footnotes and bibliography, very well researched.  I
think Durand points out that at one point early on in the war, some
camps had a discipline problem, such that prisoners cut their
hair in mohawks, wore full beards, etc.  This ended with the
arrival of certain higher-ranked, more "military" officers, but
not without some difficulty.

While officer camps had senior officers, selected based on rank
and date of commission, to represent them to the German camp
administration, enlisted prisoners *elected* "men of confidence"
to represent their interests.

Stan Koper
[email-masked]
plus  a change, plus c'est la m me chose
     This message brought to you by uqwk and Yarn 0.58

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 08:41:46 -0500
From:    Stan Koper <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Alsace/Colmar; command cooperation

Don Bowden said:

               [some deletions]

>Market Garden. Also SHEAF seemed more interested in conquering the Saar and
>Ruhr-- industrial centers. This is also commented upon-- American doctrine/
>strategy was supposed to be destruction of the enemy army, not occupying
>real estate.

I would wonder about this--what was the Strategic Bombing
Campaign if not an attempt to cripple Germany's ability to wage
war?  Similarly, Monty's ill-fated Market-Garden had the same
intention--to take the "industrial heartland", not "real estate"
per se.

An emphasis on such strategic objectives is not
incompatible with "destruction of the enemy army".  What is "the
high ground" if not real estate?  The phrase "Find, fix, and
fight", with its emphasis on destruction of enemy soldiery is
a maxim from another, later war.

Stan Koper
[email-masked]
plus  a change, plus c'est la m me chose
     This message brought to you by uqwk and Yarn 0.58

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 09:28:56 -0600
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: DOC: Jurgen Rohwer's Chronology?

Larry,

     I've got it.  It is the 2-vol. 2d. ed.  I nearly -- in
desperation -- bid on the 1st ed. when WIU naval historian
Don Daudelin pointed out the 2d in his Mil. Hist. Book Club
flyer.

     It's the best thing of its kind, and certainly indispen-
sible to the naval historian and wargamer.

Lou Coatney

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 21:48:07 EST
From:    MR SKIP WILDER <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF-Aleutian Islands

The following item appeared in the Spring, 1994 issue of "Shift Colors -
The Newsletter for Navy Retirees:"

        Aleutians, 1942 - Seek names of actual locations for WWII code name
places.  I shipped light tanks built by Marmon-Herrington, Indianapolis,
Indiana to six code name locations, like JAM JAR, BLUE BELL, BLUE BONNET,
etc.  Seek individuals with information of where the tanks were sent.
Contact LCDR Fred G. Brune (Ret.), 2210 38th St., Kenner, LA 70065.

Can anyone help LCDR Brune?

 -----------------------------------------------------------
 |    Skip Wilder              |                           |
 |    [email-masked]      |"The road to hell is paved |
 |    FAX (703)528-2103        | with good intentions."    |
 |    McLean, Virginia, U.S.A. |                           |
 -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 11:23:27 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Info will be provided

Hello, Gudmundur!

Sorry to bother the list with this, but it will be short.

I will posting info to you via this format within the next 3-4 days.
Sorry it has taken so long. I hadn't forgotten you.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 11:41:00 -0600
From:    Tony Schuler <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: German Soldiers on British Soil?

I realize fiction is not a popular topic amongst some on the list.
Jack Higgins has written many a good novel. My question to those on the
list is, "if a part may be true How Can I Pursue It." In the "Eagle Has Landed,
" Higgins writes that at least 50% of his novel is true. It is to the reader
to decide. He claims that it, "was to consume a year of my life. A year of
hundreds of files, dozens of interviews, travelling half way around the
world.."

In the novel, Mr. Higgins tells a story of a bunch of German Paratroopers who
go into the south of England and wish to assasinate Churchill. Higgins claims
that these are the only Germans killed on the British Mainland. Does this
have any truth to it? Were there any German or Axis soldiers killed on the
British Mainland?

Someone on the list asked if there was a double of Churchill. They stated that
the pictures of him during the war were somewhat different. In the book, Higgins
tells that there was a double of Churchill. If nothing else, I believe it is a
highly probable scenario.

Anything on the subject welcome.

Thanks,

Tony Schuler

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 11:58:51 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

> Bob Smart,
>
>      (As you probably are already aware) those Spanish 109s
> were engined with Rolls-Royce Merlins, the engine powering
> the Spit.  The Merlin-powered 109 had the best performance
> of ANY of the 109s.
>
>      Similarly, the P-51 was much improved from the A-36,
> when it traded its Allison for a Merlin.  Merlins powered
> both the P-51 and the Spit, but (because of its more
> efficient airframe) the '51 had much better performance
> and endurance.  (It has been wondered if the British
> stuck with the Spit airframe out of nationalism or
> defense establishment/employment characteristic.)
>
>      Bob Granvin, Bob Smart, Con Crane, John Lundstrom, et
> al:  Can you add anything to this?
>
>      As so beautifully depicted in the film "Empire of the
> Sun,"  the P-51 certainly was "The Cadillac of the Skies."

The Mustang didn't get the Merlin without some cost, however.  The increase
in performance was so dramatic that all the other costs were completely
immaterial.

However, the Allison powered A-36/P-51A was highly loved by its pilots.  It
made an _excellent_ mid to low level dive-bomber and interceptor.  The liquid
cooled engine was a problem for a dive-bomber, however, because it is much
more susceptible to small-arms fire damage than the radial.  The Allison did
not perform well at high altitudes and didn't have the horsepower to take
full advantage of the capability of the airframe.

However, the Allison was extremely smooth and responsive.  It did exactly
what you wanted and when.  On landing, it was one of the best around.

The Merlin, however, is what made the Mustang the interceptor it was.  It gave
it high altitude performance and a substantial increase in speed.  It is,
however, a very touchy engine.  You don't so much control a Merlin as you do
make a mutual agreement with it.  Take-off and landings, while always the most
critical time of flight (Except when someone is shooting at you) was made
much more dangerous by the Merlin.  The Merlin basically had to be "throttle
off" to land.  Do it wrong, and you slam into the ground.  It, unlike the
Allison is VERY unforgiving.

>From a civilian point of view, the Allison is a much better engine.  It is
safe, easy to control and very predictable.  For combat aircraft, of course,
those are not particularly important characteristics.

As far as Spitfires, they could still outperform much in the sky, though they
didn't have the range.  They were easy and cheap to build and the entire
aircraft assembly structure was designed around them.  To convert to the much
more complicated Mustang would have been unreasonable, especially since the
Spitfire continued to prove its role.

National pride always has something to do with it (the U.S. has a history of
rejecting excellent foreign offers in favor of (at the time) inferior
domestic aircraft, but it almost always works out in the end anyways.  But
a wood, fabric and metal aircraft that could be built easily was still a
very valuable asset compared to a big metal American thing.  :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                             [email-masked]
University of Minnesota, School of Statistics
         "I'm my father?  I'm my mother?  I'm chipped beef on toast?"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 12:22:56 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: Mistreatment German POWs?

> > Just to add a couple of more cents to the pot.  I have to agree with
> > Terry that it sounds like "sour grapes."  I have know a number of men who
> > were held in German Prisoner of War camps and none of them have anything
> > bad to say about their time at the camps.  In fact one man, Glen Brown,
> > from Streator, Illinois, has had nothing but praise for his captors.  He
> > tells stories of sharing Red Cross packages with the guards, because the
> > prisoners actually had more to eat than the German soldiers when the
> > packages arrived.
> >
> > I will agree that the prisoners went hungry, especially toward the end
> > of the war, but so did their captors.
> >
> > C.K. Bryant
>
> Mr. Bryant, you may be talking to different POW's.  I recall
> that during the 1970's, when the survivors of the Sagan camp
> (Stalag Luft VII?) wanted to have their former commandant come to
> one of their reunions, persons who had spent the war
> in other camps (particularly those for infantry and/or enlisted
> personnel) raised a fuss.  Their point was that RHIP extended
> to wartime captivity, and the experience of the EM was *very*
> different from that of their officers. I can't recall the author's
> name, but the novel _Prisoners of Combine D_ gives some idea of
> the experience of those who were not of the officer class.

Wow!  I'd like to hear more about "praise for their captors."

I have discussed the time in camps with many, many POWs.  While their
individual stories vary greatly, none of them have ever been able to add
"praise" to that list.

It is true that many of them can't claim they were mistreated or treated
badly, from a prisoner during war perspective, but I have never run into a
case where there was more food coming in via Red Cross packages that actually
got to the prisoners.

All of these individuals were the same in that regard.  No more than half
of those packages reached the prisoners on average.  Plus, the items that
were packed in them often didn't make sense (lemme ask you, what does an
American flyer need with a pound of margarine and no vegetables or fruit?)

The following is an average day's ration given to a POW in some of the
"better" camps -- and yes, this is for the _officers_:  one small potato,
one cup of ersatz coffee.  Usually a small cup of stew of unknown contents
and a slice of black bread.

The black bread was made by combining flour and coal tar, baking and setting
up for a full month prior to being served.  The Red Cross packages are what
sustained the POWs through what you might call "lunch" (the above was the
final meal of the day).  Breakfast was unheard of.  Under none of these
cases did they ever feel the German guards were often doing without.

Different classes of prisoner were definitely treated differently.  An officer
was always likely to get better accomdations, ration and privileges as well as
being treated better in general.  Aviators were also often treated better,
because they were held in Luft-Stalags which had a different attitude.

While some prisoners may have had a "comfortable" time (for lack of a better
word), it was no party and even this treatment today would spark the level
of outrage not seen in a long time.  They may not have loved their camp
commandant (some better, some worse... some planning for the day when Patton
arrives :-), I've still not heard anything about "no complaints."

I'd definitely be interested in hearing more.  I'd actually like to hear that
there were some people who were treated reasonably "well," at least by my
standards.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                             [email-masked]
University of Minnesota, School of Statistics
         "I'm my father?  I'm my mother?  I'm chipped beef on toast?"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 19:43:09 MET-1
From:    Bognar Attila <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ike

John,

1., As I see it Ike's every decision was a political decision. At
least to a certain extent.
2., I do agree that allowing Mrket Garden was a failure, at least
then. He should have allowed it 10 days earlier. (Not exactly Market
Garden, for the plan did not yet exist at that time, but Monty's
single thrust theory through the Northern way) On the other hand - in
my views - he was far too overoptimistic. I might also say naive. I
think he really did believe that's it was going to be like a Sunday
parade down the park from then on.
3., I do agree that he could have never got rid of Monty, the most
famous Britsh general since Wellington. But if so why make a try? (As
a matter of fact at one point he almost wired the CCS asking them to
fire Monty. In the end de Guingang helped to smooth the matter.)

All the best,

Attila  [email-masked]
-------------------------------------------------------

>                 I would just like to know if this was actually Ike's
>         decision, or was it a political decision.  From what I can gather
>         from his Crusade, and also from the Diary of his aid, I don't
>         her anything about him making this decision by himself.  Actually
>         allowing Market-Garden to go ahead, and not doing more to get rid
>         of Montgomery I rank as his two biggest blunders, not that he could
>         have gotten ride of Monty.  too bad (I'm not anti-British, I just
>         don't like Monty, his tactics/strategy/etc, Nelson, now there
>         was a hero :)
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 11:00:24 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: No Poles in Eastern Poland! Hmmmm.

"Lithuania the first line of the Polish national anthem", you say.
???
As I recall, having sung it dozens of times, years ago, the first
line of their anthem is:
                "Poland's soul lives on unconquored, 'midst
                all tribulation..."

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 13:52:55 EST
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: For Terry Moore

Terry,

I accidently killed your e-mail address.  Please send me a b/c message,
I have something for you.

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe               RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, West Point  (e-mail:  [email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 13:19:13 MET
From:    Ireneusz Jakobik <[email-masked]>
Subject: Polish anthem

Peter E. Beal writes:
>Incidently, the first line of the Polish national anthem, at least the
>pre-WWII version, starts off with "Lithuania, my homeland....".  Of
>course, they were one country in the 17th (?) century.

You are wrong, Polish anthem starts with words: "Poland is not dead as long
as we are alive" (well, I'm not English interpreter, but it's the meaning
of "Jeszcze Polska nie zginela poki my zyjemy").
"Lithuania, my homeland" is the beginning of "Pan Tadeusz", a book written
by Adam Mickiewicz who is the best known (at least in Poland) romantic writer.
"Pan Tadeusz" (or "Mister Tadeusz") was translated to almost all languages
of the world, so I guess no one should any problems with finding version
in his/her national language, even Gudmundur :)
Irek.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 11:14:15 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF-Aleutian Islands

Would you please give me the postal mailing address of
SHIFT COLORS
Thank you in advance.
Regards.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 20:32:30 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

On Thu, 24 Mar 1994, Robert J. Granvin wrote:

> As far as Spitfires, they could still outperform much in the sky, though they
> didn't have the range.  They were easy and cheap to build and the entire
> aircraft assembly structure was designed around them.  To convert to the much
> more complicated Mustang would have been unreasonable, especially since the
> Spitfire continued to prove its role.

I always understood that the Spitfire was NOT easy to build, nor cheap,
because its design was uncompromised, while the P-51 was designed with
large-scale production in mind. E.g. the main spar of the P-51 is a simple
piece of profiled metal -- a L profile, if I remember correctly -- while
the spar of the Spitfire is made up from a number of rectangular tubes
fitting into each other. The Spitfire also has far more curved lines, that
are difficult to manufacture.

Spitfire production was 20351, that of the P-51 14819, but the production
of the Spitfire was done on a longer time scale.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 19:28:18 MET-1
From:    Bognar Attila <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Lucian Truscott

Somebody on the list have put a question about Lucian Truscott the
other day.
I don't know who was that because I ddeletedd the message for I
thought I can't answer it anyway. Sorry about that.
I hope I haven't missed anything so I'm not echoing anyone's words
now. (Though this isn't much anyway.)
I have just run accross a couple of words about him in Bradley's A
GENERAL'S LIFE. He is quite brief, the last information is that
Truscott commanded VI. Corps, the assault force of the Anvil forces
(7th US Army) right after the landing.
There's also a picture of Truscott, with the words: "An underrated
general, he went on to more important command in Italy." If he really
did so than there must be something about him somewhere.

That's all, I hope it helps.

All the best,

Attila  [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 15:20:04 -0500
From:    "W. C. (RUSTY) DIVENS" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Veteran aircraft: to fly or to display

A while back, on this listserver or some other avaition
related one, there began a heated discussion about whether
it was proper to permit rare vintage aircraft to fly or
whether they should be preserved in museums.

Looking thru Robertson's AVIATION ARCHAEOLOGY I came upon an
interesting point.

It is stated that "....the greatest loss of veteran aircraft has
occurred with static aircraft through hangar fires".  Interesting...
and when one throws in hurricanes....well....it appears that
keeping them in flying condition may well be the best way to
guarantee their survival.

Bill
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 15:30:02 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Barrage Balloons

John,
        I don't know how effective the balloons were against aircraft,
        but I do know that they were pretty effective (sort of) against
        the V-1, most intercepts were still by AAA and fighters, but
        of the ones that got through they stopped a percentage of over
        10.  I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I will look
        for them again.  They come from a book by R.V. Jones, I forget
        the title, but he was in charge of intel for the UK.

                                                John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 14:20:35 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

In message World War II Discussion List writes:
> > >      As so beautifully depicted in the film "Empire of the
> > > Sun,"  the P-51 certainly was "The Cadillac of the Skies."
> > >
> > One of the things that struck me about the film was that the Zeros were
> > faked up from training planes. (The Zero fuselage was drawn out to a
> > point at the tail, with the tailfin and rudder mounted atop. In the
> > movie, the rudder was aft of the actual fuselage, so that the "point"
> > moved with it.) Presumably Spielberg couldn't get a working Zero for the
> > job, whereas they were plenty of Mustangs for the fly-by toward the end.
>
> I believe that the Zeros were the ones rebuilt from T-6s (and the Navy ver.)
> for "Tora, Tora, Tora".

The T-6 and BT-13 were both used as base platforms for the conversions.

Both aircraft were heavily modified and considering the issues involved,
were done fairly well.

The BT became the Kate and Val, primarily -- the fixed gear torpedo
bombers.  The T-6 became the Zero.

Today, there are only two authentic Japanese Zeros in flying condition.
NEITHER fly with any frequency.  None of these existed until only a few
years ago.  Both were major league basket cases when recovered -- one from
a crash site in the jungles.

BTW: The CAF has authorized the use of its (real) Zero in the production of
an upcoming documentary about Japanese wartime aviation and the Zero.  So
at least one more visual record will be created using the real aircraft.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                             [email-masked]
University of Minnesota, School of Statistics
         "I'm my father?  I'm my mother?  I'm chipped beef on toast?"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 15:46:04 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Nost: Warbird's crash

But, when they crash an old car, you're going at 30-50mph(or 60+++)
but it is easier to rebuild and repair it, and parts are not has hard
to come by.  Try repairing, or even find a usable piece of metal, from
an F4U that slammed into the earth at 500mph+ and while on fire.
                                John
                                        Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 14:45:38 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: For Terry Moore

Hello, Barry!

Hope this helps.

Please let me know if this is not sufficient.

Terry

----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Terry,
>
> I accidently killed your e-mail address.  Please send me a b/c message,
> I have something for you.
>
> Barry
>
> Barrett F. Lowe               RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
> MAJ, IN
> Dept of Physics, West Point  (e-mail:  [email-masked])
>

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 16:00:42 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: German Soldiers on British Soil?

Well, if you excuse the pretty ugly thought, alot of Germans were killed
on the british mainland when they met it after falling out of an airplane.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 16:05:27 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

But, everyone knows that the P-38 was king during the war. :)
Or maybe the F4U, but the Hog was pretty unforgiving.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 16:08:28 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

Actually, on the subject of engines, etc.  Early in WWII the P-38
was built with both engines turning the same way, and some were sent
to the UK, the characteristics of the plane were so bad that the British
didn't order any and sent some of them back.  The AAF then reequipped them
with engines that turned opposite to each other, and the superb fighter
and straffer was born.  Note: It might be big, but just shift the throttles
a little and your turn gets alot of help, kind of like jerking the plane
around the hard way :).

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 13:17:52 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: German Soldiers on British Soil?

The only soldiers on the British mainland suring WW2 were prisoners
of war.
The germans did occupy the Channel Islands (part of Britain) throughout
WW2 from 1940 onwards.
It puzzles me why, with all the richness of dramatic *factual* events
which actually did happen, that there's this faintly credulous urge
to accept fictional novels as "fact".
Jack Higgins is a splendid writer of novels. He works hard and well at his
craft of imagining plots for novels. Fiction means, a story, made up, to
entertain us. There never was a single incidence of German soldiers
paaratroops or otherwise ever landing on Britain, to shoot Churchill or
anyone else.
In passing, I might mention that if Kack Higgins *did* base THE EAGLE
HAS LANDED on anything, it was on the plot of a British *movie* --
        WENT THE DAY WELL, starring John Mills, which was produced
around 1942 or 1943.  When Higgins was still a lad. The first half
pf WENT THE DAY WELL is about a (fictional) band of Fallschirmjaeger
landing on a small English vilage, disguised as Polish soldiers... Sound familiar?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 16:19:44 CST
From:    Steve Alvin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

I'm pretty sure that the Zeros in Empire of the Sun were the
converted Texans used originally in Tora x 3.  The CAF flys a
number of them, including pseudo Val's and Kate's.  Last summer
I finally got a close look at them at an airshow and was very
disappointed--up close they look like Texans with a nose job!
I also felt the famous Pearl Harbor attack put on by the CAF
was pretty hoaky (Note:  this is not an attack on the CAF--just
that aspect of their show)
Also, several models of P-51's werre used in the Making of
Empire of the Sun.

--
Steve Alvin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 16:30:00 CDT
From:    Roger Safian <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: German soldiers on British Soil

Greetings,

    I've been lurking here since Larry left the list, and thought this
might be a fun subject to jump in on. I'm pretty sure that "The Eagle has
Landed" is based on at least half fact!  So jack Higgens is correct.
Now before you jump all over me, just consider these "facts":

There was a War during the period in question.
The germans and the English were in opposite sides.
Churchill was in charge in England.
Hitler was in charge in Germany.
The Germans had Paratroops.
The Polish had troops in England.

Dare I go on?  Let the facts speak for themselves!  It's all so very
clear now...don't you see it?

                                              Roger

P.S.

   Do I really need to add a extra large :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 15:11:26 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

>
> >
> >Bob Smart,
> >
> >     (As you probably are already aware) those Spanish 109s
> >were engined with Rolls-Royce Merlins, the engine powering
> >the Spit.  The Merlin-powered 109 had the best performance
> >of ANY of the 109s.
> >
>         I may be wrong but if my memories serve me correctly, the CASA
> built    109's may have improved straight-line peformance but I think that
> their performance was not particularly good.  The change in different
> engine adversly effected the COG and the overhandling.  I remeber reading
> an article where a pilot used to operating Daimler powered 109's found the
> CASA's to be skittish, akward to coordinate, and suffered from dangerous
> stall characteristics.  Of course my disclaimer is I read this article
> while I was still in high school.

Sounds more like the Czech Aero "Mezec".  The He111 engine and propeller didn't
work out well.... :)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 16:01:48 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Polish anthem

>
> Peter E. Beal writes:
> >Incidently, the first line of the Polish national anthem, at least the
> >pre-WWII version, starts off with "Lithuania, my homeland....".  Of
> >course, they were one country in the 17th (?) century.
>
> You are wrong, Polish anthem starts with words: "Poland is not dead as long
> as we are alive" (well, I'm not English interpreter, but it's the meaning
> of "Jeszcze Polska nie zginela poki my zyjemy").
> "Lithuania, my homeland" is the beginning of "Pan Tadeusz", a book written
> by Adam Mickiewicz who is the best known (at least in Poland) romantic writer.

No, that's Sinkiewicz.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 25 Mar 1994 08:03:45 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Polish anthem

On Thu, 24 Mar 1994, Ireneusz Jakobik wrote:

> Peter E. Beal writes:
> >Incidently, the first line of the Polish national anthem, at least the
> >pre-WWII version, starts off with "Lithuania, my homeland....".  Of
> >course, they were one country in the 17th (?) century.
>
> You are wrong, Polish anthem starts with words: "Poland is not dead as long
> as we are alive" (well, I'm not English interpreter, but it's the meaning
> of "Jeszcze Polska nie zginela poki my zyjemy").
> "Lithuania, my homeland" is the beginning of "Pan Tadeusz", a book written
> by Adam Mickiewicz who is the best known (at least in Poland) romantic writer.
> "Pan Tadeusz" (or "Mister Tadeusz") was translated to almost all languages
> of the world, so I guess no one should any problems with finding version
> in his/her national language, even Gudmundur :)
> Irek.
>
I stand corrected by someone who certainly knows better than I.  But see
my previous message.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 21:27:29 -0500
From:    Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

> Actually, on the subject of engines, etc.  Early in WWII the P-38
> was built with both engines turning the same way, and some were sent
> to the UK, the characteristics of the plane were so bad that the British
> didn't order any and sent some of them back.  The AAF then reequipped them
> with engines that turned opposite to each other, and the superb fighter
> and straffer was born.  Note: It might be big, but just shift the throttles
> a little and your turn gets alot of help, kind of like jerking the plane
> around the hard way :).

Not quite true. The P-38 was designed to have two opposite turning engines so
the props turned inward to counteract torque. It was also designed with
superchargers to improve performance at altitude.  The British, when they
bought a few lightnings ordered them with both engines having a standard
righthand rotation and without superchargers.

Needless to say the planes were dogs.

After the war Lots of Allison engines were on the market. People bought them to
use in unlimited speedboats, drag-racers and Tractors for tractor pulls.
Some of these folks were patting themselves on the back for buying an engine at
somewhat less than market price.

An F-15 pilot I knew put it best. His father and older brother decided to build
a tractor for tractor pulling and picked up an engine real cheap.  They didn't
realize why the crank and a lot of other parts all had an L stamped on them.
They assumed it was some kind of inspection mark. A friend told them that that
meant the engine was 'the higher performance version for the P-38 Lightning'
Well they built the tractor and fired it up. With the father in the drivers
seat they put it in gear and went in reverse through the back wall of the barn!

You guessed it the L meant left hand rotation. Those engines were selling for a
lot less because it was harder to find or build a transmission that worked in
the opposite direction.

Bob Smart ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 21:27:53 CST
From:    Steve Alvin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

Someone earlier suggested that early Spitfires were powered by
German Juno engines because there were not enough Merlins avaliable.
This simply isn't true.  The Spitfire prototype was powered by
a Merlin I while the first production Mk I Spitfires were powered
by Merlin II's & III's.

The poster may be thinking of the Czech built Avia S-199, which
was a Jumo engine mated to a Me-109G airframe.

--
Steve Alvin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 23 Mar 1994 to 24 Mar 1994
*************************************************