Subject: WWII-L Digest - 17 Mar 1994 to 18 Mar 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 00:00:11 -0500

There are 31 messages totalling 1436 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INFO: Herbert Schob (2)
  2. ADMIN: Intro to WWII-L (9)
  3. INF: USAAF 18-20 MAR 44
  4. INF: Never trust technology! (7)
  5. Re[2]: World at war....... (2)
  6. HELP Sci.military
  7. Alan Turing, the Enigma, Cryptography (3)
  8. American's in Japan
  9. Turing's teddy bear?
 10. Rommel the Nazi?
 11. German Nightfighters using AT cannons?
 12. Wehrmacht troops killing Waffen-SS troops?
 13. Americans in Japan

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 15:18:53 +1000
From:    Mick Fauchon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INFO: Herbert Schob

        Derek,

                Care to give me some details on what you're doing with the
Bf-110? I'm not sure what I've got on Schob, but give me a little time,
and I'll get back to you.

                                                        Cheers,

                                                        Mick.

--                                                                          --
Mick Fauchon                          | Internet: [email-masked]
Reference Section, Auchmuty Library   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 215861
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA    | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

On Fri, 18 Mar 1994, Derek Monz wrote:

>       I am curently making a 1/32 scale model of the Bf110G. I cam across a
> pilot who's aircraft sounded like it would be good to make. His name is
> Herbert Schob. He went from enlisted rank to that of Oberleutnant ( by
> mar 44). I haven't got much else on him, unfortunately so If anyone has
> any info on the man,his plane, his unit (ZG76) or the 110 in defending
> Germany in daylight I would like to hear from them.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> PS, Dennis Sparks I hope you got my message a few days ago 'cause we had a
> crash here on our system.
>
>
> EMail:  [email-masked]  Msc (Geology)@ JCU 1993
>        Disclamer: - I didn't do it!
> " If there is anything more important than my Ego.....
>                  I want it taken out and shot!"  (Zaphod Beablbrox (HHGTTG)).
>
>                             ((-------))
>                                 \o/
>                                  |
>                                _/ \_
>

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 00:21:00 -0500
From:    Joe Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: ADMIN: Intro to WWII-L

I've shamelessly taken Larry's intro text and changed a few things.
The most important change is in the area of topics-non-grata -- I've
added two new topics (#2 and #4).  I'm sure anyone who has been with
the list for any length of time can figure out one of them.  I added
the other since it seemed that it (and its terse rebuttal) should reside
in a frequently asked question (FAQ) list.  I ask that everyone take
the time to read this message in its entirety even though most of it
may appear (and is) redundant.  Thanks.  -- Joe

Revision: 18 March 1994
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Here's a tip on getting older messages from the listserver:

Date:         Wed, 16 Sep 1992 18:06:11 CDT
From: DONALD NEWCOMB <[email-masked]>
Subject:      Getting back articles and the database

  One of the "niftiest" features of the listserver is the database
search. This allows the user to search for any subject and print
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_
//Job
Database Search DD=Rules
//Rules DD *
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index
/*
_
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   <[email-masked]>
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Enough talking.  I can be reached at the following address:

Joe Barone, WWII-L Listowner
[email-masked]
W: (401) 842-4054

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 07:36:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 18-20 MAR 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
18-20 MARCH 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  Beaufighter, Bristol
  L-4, Piper Cub
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  Vengeance, Vultee
  Ventura, Lockheed (RNZAF)

SATURDAY, 18 MARCH 1944

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 22 B-25s attack villages and oil
storage areas near Kalewa while 16 B-24s and 41 Royal Air Force (RAF)
Vengeance's pound the same general area hitting Japanese positions and causing
many fires; 20+ P-51s and B-25s support ground forces near Chindwin; 14 others
hit a truck park and supply area near Mandalay; and 20+ fighter-bombers
(P-51s, P-40s and A-36s) bomb the Kamaing area while 10 more damage several
riverboats near Katha.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 16 P-40s on a Yangtze River sweep
sink 1 large sailboat and strafe a transport ship at Chiuchiang. In French
Indochina, 2 P-40s damage a bridge N of Haiphong and attack targets of
opportunity in the area, while 2 others sink 2 large junks at Thuong Mo; 12
P-40s on armed reconnaissance from Nanning, China sink a barge and damage
other craft at Quang Yen, sink a transport vessel at Campha Port and damage
a nearby bridge, attack a train and several buildings in the Lang Son area,
and damage a railroad bridge between Lang Son and Phu Lang Thuong.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  ICELAND (Iceland Base Command): HQ 342d Composite Group is disbanded in
Iceland.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 264: Aircraft plants and
airfields in Germany are targetted; enemy fighters attack in force and AA
fire is heavy; the bombers claim 45-10-17 Luftwaffe aircraft; 43 bombers and
13 fighters are lost;
  1. 284 of 290 B-17s dispatched bomb the aviation industry at
Oberpfaffenhofen, air depots at Lechfeld and Landsberg, Memmingen Airfield
and targets of opportunity; 8 B-17s are lost and 102 damaged; casualties are
1 KIA, 9 WIA and 80 MIA.
  2. 196 of 221 B-17s dispatched bomb Munich, the aviation industry at
Oberpfaffenhofen, Lechfeld air depot and targets of opportunity; 7 B-17s are
lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 80 damaged; casualties are 3 KIA, 4 WIA and
70 MIA.
  3. 227 B-24s are dispatched to aviation industry targets at Friedrichshafen/
Lowenthal (77 bomb), Friedrichshafen/Manzell (38 bomb) and Friedrichshafen/
Zeppelin (52 bomb), the city of Friedrichshafen (22 bomb) and 9 hit targets of
opportunity; 28 B-24s are lost, 3 damaged beyond repair and 60 damaged;
casualties are 6 KIA, 9 WIA and 286 MIA
  Escort is provided by 113 P-38s, 598 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and
214 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s. Details are:
  1. P-38s claim 11-2-1 Luftwaffe aircraft; 5 are lost and 1 damaged; 4
pilots are MIA.
  2. P-47s claim 2-1-3 Luftwaffe aircraft; 2 are lost, 1 damaged beyond
repair and 6 damaged; 2 pilots are MIA.
  3. P-51s claim 26-2-6 Luftwaffe aircraft; 6 are lost, 2 damaged beyond
repair and 3 damaged; 1 pilot is WIA and 6 MIA.
  The fighters also claim 3-2-2 Luftwaffe aircraft on the ground.
  Mission 265: 6 of 6 B-17s drop 300 bundles of leaflets on Cambrai, Lille,
Paris, Amiens, Rouen and Caen, France at 2115-2139 hours without loss.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Italy, 950+ B-17s and B-24s
bomb aviation targets; B-17s hit Villaorba Landing Ground and Udine aviation
depot; B-24s bomb Lavariano and Maniago Landing Grounds and Gorizia aviation
depot; 126 P-38s and P-47s carry out sweeps in the Udine-Maniago area and
strafe aircraft at Udine Airfield, a tanker S of Marano Lagoon and a hangar,
2 trains, 2 radar stations, and a seaplane anchorage (destroying 6 seaplanes)
at Belvedere; the bombers and escorts claim 48 enemy fighters destroyed, 9 US
aircraft are downed.
  774th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 463d Bombardment Group (Heavy), arrives
at Celone Airfield, Italy from the US with B-17s; first mission is 30 Mar.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s, B-26s, and A-20s
bomb Foligno marshalling yard, Orvieto marshalling yard and railroad bridge,
Poggibonsi railroad bridge, Piombino dock area, Colleferro railroad tracks
and assembly area N of Anzio; P-40s, A-36s, and P-47s attack gun positions in
the Anzio beachhead area, a factory at Carroceto, motor transport
concentrations in the Cassino area, fuel dump, tank repair depot, and bivouac
in the beachhead area, motor transport around Ladispoli, railroad bridge N of
Rome, and railroad tracks and cars at other points.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): 2 B-25s from Engebi Island,
Eniwetok Atoll bomb and strafe Ponape Island. 13 B-25s from Abemama Island
bomb Jaluit Atoll while 5 from Tarawa Atoll hit the Atoll with bombs and
cannon fire. 1 B-24 from Tarawa Atoll bombs Mille Atoll and photographs Mille
and Majuro Atoll, Marshall Islands.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On New Britain Island, 12
P-40s pound fuel stores on Keravia Bay; 13 P-38s follow with a strike on an
ammunition dump at nearby Cape Tawui; 12 P-39s later hit the Keravia Bay
area; and still later, 24 B-24s and 13 B-25s blast the town of Rabaul and
foothills nearby. On Bougainville Island, 18 P-39s, along with several US
Navy (USN) fighter-bombers, hit shipping at the mouths of the Jaba and Tavena
Rivers.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 100+ B-24s,
B-25s, and A-20s continue to pound the Wewak area, hitting AA positions and
nearby Brandi Plantation; a Japanese supply convoy reaches Wewak but escapes
bombardment.

SUNDAY, 19 MARCH 1944

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 20+ B-25s and P-38s hit Wuntho;
70+ fighter-bombers and 2 B-25s over the Mogaung Valley bomb supply dumps,
enemy positions, and targets of opportunity throughout the area,
concentrating attacks in and  near Kamaing, Mogaung and Sumprabum; and 16
P-51s hit barracks and a supply area at Meiktila Airfield near Mandalay while
B-25s hit Indaw.
  82d Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 12th Bombardment Group (Medium), arrives
at Tezgaon, India from Italy with B-25s; first mission is 21 Apr.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 2 B-25s, 9 P-38s and 3 P-51s on a
Yangtze River sweep damage several river vessels, hit a fort at Chihchow and
bomb Nanchang Airfield.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 266: V-weapon sites in
France are hit.
  1. 117 of 129 B-17s hit sites at Wizernes and Watten; 1 B-17 is lost and 74
damaged; casualties are 1 WIA and 10 MIA.
  2. 56 of 64 B-17s hit Marquise/Mimoyecques; 14 B-17s are damaged; 1 crewman
is WIA.
  Escort is provided by 82 P-47s; 1 is damaged and the pilot is WIA.
  Mission 267: 6 of 6 B-17s drop 300 bundles of leaflets on The Hague,
Rotterdam, Leeuwarden, Utrecht and Amsterdam, The Netherlands at 2114-2140
hours without loss.
  Mission 268: 35 P-47s [25 with 500-pound (227 kg) bombs] are dispatched to
Gilze-Rijen Airfield, The Netherlands; 20 of the 25 bomb without loss; 39
P-51s fly a supporting sweep.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, 152 B-26s and 65 A-20s
attack NOBALL (V-weapon) targets in the Saint-Omer area during morning and
afternoon missions; 16 P-47s dive-bomb the airfield between Boulogne-sur-Mer
and Le Touquet; the morning raids precede an Eighth Air Force attack with
B-17s on V-weapon sites.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  MEDITERRANEAN ALLIED AIR FORCE (MAAF): Mediterranean Allied Tactical Air
Force (MATAF) issues a directive for Operation STRANGLE, to interdict supply
movements in Italy by destroying marshalling yards and attacking rail lines
and ports in a concentrated campaign.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 460th Bombardment Group (Heavy)
with B-24s is declared operational making a total of 14 bomb groups
operational in the Fifteenth Air Force.
  234 B-17s and B-24s, escorted by 100+ fighters, bomb the air depot at
Klagenfurt, Austria; 150+ B-24s also hit the air depot at Graz, Austria and
the marshalling yards at Knin and Metkovic, Yugoslavia; Luftwaffe fighters
provide fierce opposition and along with AA fire, shoot down 17 bombers and 1
fighter; US aircraft claim 30 enemy fighters destroyed in combat.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-26s attack a road
bridge W of Arezzo and port installations at San Stefano al Mare; B-25s hit a
bridge approach in S Orvieto, marshalling yards at Avezzano and Orte and a
bridge at Orte; tank repair shops near Tivoli are bombed by A-20s; and P-47s
and P-40s strike at enemy concentrations, dumps and guns in the US Fifth Army
main battle area and in the area N of the Anzio beachhead.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-24s pound Wake Island from
Kwajalein Atoll. B-25s from Abemama Island and Tarawa Atoll hit Maloelap,
Jaluit, and Mille Atolls. 1 B-24 from Tarawa bombs Mille and photographs Mille
and Majuro Atolls.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On New Britain Island, 30+
fighter-bombers over the Rabaul area pound an ammunition dump and other
targets around Cape Tawui; and 24 B-25s blast the Wunapope area,
concentrating on workers' quarters. 24 B-24s bomb the airstrip at Panapai,
New Ireland Island, causing considerable damage to the runways.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 100+ B-24s,
B-25s, A-20s and P-47s pound the Wewak area, hitting especially hard the Cape
Moem and Cape Boram areas; other B-25s and P-39s, along with Royal Australian
Air Force (RAAF) aircraft, bomb the Hansa Bay, Nubia, Madang, and Alexishafen
areas and hit targets along Bogadjim Road; and 130 B-24s, B-25s, A-20s, and
P-38s virtually destroy a supply convoy proceeding from Wewak toward
Hollandia, sinking at least 5 vessels. P-40s attack a bivouac area and AA on
Garove Island, Bismarck Archipelago.

MONDAY, 20 MARCH 1944

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In the Arakan area of Burma, 12 RAF
Vengeance's hit Japanese positions near Kaladan and Buthidaung while 6 P-38s
severely damage a bridge at Lamu; 20+ B-25s and P-51s hit communication and
transportation targets in the Katha area; 6 B-24s bomb the Moulmein-Martaban
area; and 100+ fighter-bombers strike Mogaung Valley buildings and supply
areas, and fuel dumps at Mogaung, Myitkyina, Sumprabum and Sahmaw.
  81st Bombardment Group (Medium), 12th Bombardment Group (Medium), arrives
at Tezgaon, India from Italy with B-25s; first mission is 16 Apr.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): Photo reconnaissance sorties are flown orer
C China and NE Burma.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 269: 353 B-17s and 92
B-24s are dispatched to targets in Germany but high clouds and the malfunction
of blind-bombing equipment cause nearly 300 bombers to abort the mission; 7
bombers and 8 fighters are lost; the bombers claim 2-0-0 Luftwaffe aircraft;
the bombers also drop 900,000 leaflets; details are:
  1. 54 B-17s hit Mannheim, 51 hit Frankfurt, 19 hit Bingen and 22 hit
targets of opportunity; 5 B-17s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 150
damaged; casualties are 1 KIA, 8 WIA and 40 MIA.
  2. 1 of 92 B-24s hit Bretuit Airfield; 2 B-24s are lost and 15 damaged;
casualties are 3 WIA and 21 MIA.
  Escort is provided by 44 P-38s, 345 P-47s and 205 Eighth and Ninth Air
Force P-51s; claims and losses are:
  1. P-38s: no claims or losses
  2. P-47s claim 1-0-1 Luftwaffe aircraft on the ground; 6 P-47s are lost and
9 damaged; 6 pilots are MIA.
  3. P-51s claim 4-0-1 Luftwaffe aircraft; 2 P-51s are lost and 3 damaged; 2
pilots are MIA.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 67th Tactical Reconnaissance Group
completes a series of 83 missions (begun on 23 Feb) during which photographs
were made of 160 miles (256 km) of French coastline and 2 inshore strips,
each 120 miles (192 km) long; 9,500 prints are produced and no aircraft are
lost. In France, 200+ B-26s and A-20s bomb 4 NOBALL (V-weapon) targets and
Creil marshalling yard; and 85 P-47s dive-bomb airfields at Abbeville, Poix
and Conches.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  AAF, MTO: 121st Liaison Squadron, AAF, MTO, arrives at Oran, Algeria from
the US with L-4s and L-5s; first mission is in Sep 44.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): HQ 464th Bombardment Group
(Heavy) and 778th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy) arrive at Pantanell Airfield,
Italy from the US with B-24s; first mission is 30 Apr.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): 310th Bombardment Group (Medium)
is transferred from the XII Fighter Command to the 57th Bombardment Wing,
thus consolidating all B-25 units of the Twelfth Air Force under 1 wing. In
Italy, B-25s strike the harbor and shipping at Piombino, the Poggibonsi
railroad bridge, Port' Ercole and the area around the Orvieto railroad
bridge; B-25s hit Orvieto marshalling yard and underpass and road bridge
nearby, Terni marshalling yard and dock at San Stefano al Mare; a factory at
Fontana Liri is accurately bombed by A-20s; P-40s hit troop concentrations,
guns and fuel dump in the Cassino-Fontana Liri area while A-36s blast the
railway station at Frosinone and also drop food for troops in the Cassino
area; and P-47s hit a fuel dump at Fontana Liri.
  HQ 62d Troop Carrier Group moves from Brindisi, Italy to Ponte Olivo,
Sicily.
  414th Night Fighter Squadron, 63d Fighter Wing, based at Elmas, Sardinia
with Beaufighters sends a detachment to operate from Ghisonaccia, Corsica
until Jul 44.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): 12 B-25s from Tarawa Atoll bomb
the radio station and pier on Emidj Island, Marshall Islands. 1 other B-25
from Tarawa bombs Mille Atoll, rearms at Majuro Atoll, and again bombs Mille
on the return trip.
  HQ 30th Bombardment Group (Heavy) moves from Abemama Island to Kwajalein
Atoll.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On New Britain Island, 20+
fighter-bombers hit the Ratawul supply area; later 20+ fighters attack barges
in the Rabaul area while 3 Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) Venturas blast
several buildings at nearby Massava Bay; and 23 B-24s bomb the airfield at
Vunakanau while 24 B-25s pound Lakunai. On Bougainville Island, 10 P-40s and
P-39s bomb Numa Numa and strafe coastal targets of opportunity. A
reconnaissance patrol of snooper B-24s cover US Marines moving onto Emirau
Island, Bismarck Archipelago; a fighter patrol is unnecessary due to
unexpected lack of opposition and after the initial landing by the Marines
other Allied ground forces move ashore; by the afternoon of 21 Mar the
occupation of the island is complete and construction of a base begins
shortly.
  868th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), Thirteenth Air Force, moves from Munda,
New Georgia Island to Los Negros Island with B-24s; this squadron uses
radar-equipped "snooper" B-24s for low-level attacks at night and for
pathfinder operations.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 30+ B-24s bomb
the airfield at Aitape; 20+ P-39s and A-20s hit Japanese HQ and other targets
along the Bogadjim Road while B-25s and P-39s on armed reconnaissance hit
targets at Milhanak, along the Gogol River, at Yeschan, Burui Airfield and at
Erima; and at night B-24s bomb remnants of a supply convoy off Cape Terabu.
On New Britain Island, P-40s on armed reconnaissance hit villages and barges
along the Bangula Bay coast.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 08:09:51 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Never trust technology!

> I was doing a report on Herbert Ziegler's "Nazi Germany's New Aristocracy",
> a study of the social background of the SS-Fuhrerkorps.  Some interesting
> ideas.

Have you read "Order of the Death's Head"?  I consider it THE history of the
SS.  It has a good overview of the personnel quality rollercoaster phenomenon
in the SS.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 08:07:19 -0600
From:    "WILLIAM L. HUBER - SAA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: World at war.......

> >     Does anybody know of a way to get a copy/tapes of the World at War
> >     series? I have tried Blockbuster Video and a couple of other little
> >     video shops to no avail. Any ideas out there?
> >
> >     Scott Jones
> >     [email-masked]
> Scott - If you have $649 (US) to spare, call A&E Home Video at 1-800-
> 828-6565 and ask for "The World at War" set of 26 tapes (Item#
> AAE-30700.) Regards - Jonah
>
> Jonah Triebwasser

The Video catalog I referred to a couple days later is called
"Military Video Collection" produced by FUSION Video.  They seem to
have a bunch of neat stuff and you can get a catalog by calling:

                1-800-959-0061

For folks overseas,

                Fusion Video
                100 Fusion Way
                Country Club Hills,  IL  60478  USA

Cheers, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 08:49:39 -0600
From:    Jeff Dingbaum <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HELP Sci.military

Bill,

ftp.x.org has a number of gif viewers available.  I use XV version 3.0
personally, but it is shareware.  I think we paid about $25 per license,
but the docs say that you can use it for your personal use for free.  Can't
say anything about the others, except that I have compiled some of them
for others.  I realize that you said executables, but perhaps you have
cc or gcc on your system?  By the way, what type of system are you on?
Most of these compile on many different systems.

in /contrib
ImageMagick2.3.6.tar.gz
xloadimage.4.1.tar.gz
xv-2.21.tar.Z -----------last official free xv

on ftp.cis.upenn.edu
in /pub/xv
xv-3.00a.tar.Z

Good Luck,
Jeff Dingbaum
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 09:30:55 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Never trust technology!

Hello, Christopher!

> Have you read "Order of the Death's Head"?  I consider it THE history of the
> SS.  It has a good overview of the personnel quality rollercoaster phenomenon
> in the SS.

    No, I have not yet read it, but I do have a copy of it. There are
others besides this one that are considered classics. George H.
Stein's work "The History of the Waffen-SS" is a good read. I don't
know if you read German, but there have been many excellent works
appear in German which were published by the now defunct Munin Verlag
out of Osnabrueck.

    I will certainly keep Hoehne's work in mind.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 16:36:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Intro to WWII-L

Joe, BRAVO!!
Peter de Lange

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 09:36:43 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Never trust technology!

Hello, again, Christopher!

> Have you read Sydnor's book on Theodor Eiche and the Totenkopf Division?
> I think it's called "Soldiers of Destruction".

    Yes, and I have personally corresponded with Dr. Sydnor on this
work in relation to those former soldiers and/or family members who
fought with this division. Dr. Sydnor told me he had not personally
interviewed Otto Baum and Karl Ullrich, who were both closely
associated with the Totenkopf Division. I wondered about that,
because I know of no two officers who were with this division who
could have provided personal insights into the character of Theodor
Eicke, and their own exploits with this division. Karl Ullrich was an
engineer who commanded the regiment which bore Eicke's name after the
latter's death. Baum eventually commanded the "Das Reich" and the
"Reichsfuehrer SS" Divisions, the latter division set-up and
commanded by Max Simon, who was also a former commander of the
Totenkopf Division.

    It seems to me that in all of Dr. Syndor's travels to interview
former members of that division, he would certainly have sought out
Baum and Ullrich. That is the only quarrel I have with his book, and
he openly told me that he had not tried to interview them, and I have
always wondered why.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 09:38:55 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INFO: Herbert Schob

Hello, Derek!

I used to correspond with Herbert Schob while he was still alive.
What do you need on him? I will do some research this weekend on him.
He was a highly-decorated man.

    Please advise.

    Terry

>       I am curently making a 1/32 scale model of the Bf110G. I cam across a
> pilot who's aircraft sounded like it would be good to make. His name is
> Herbert Schob. He went from enlisted rank to that of Oberleutnant ( by
> mar 44). I haven't got much else on him, unfortunately so If anyone has
> any info on the man,his plane, his unit (ZG76) or the 110 in defending
> Germany in daylight I would like to hear from them.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> PS, Dennis Sparks I hope you got my message a few days ago 'cause we had a
> crash here on our system.
>
>
> EMail:  [email-masked]  Msc (Geology)@ JCU 1993
>        Disclamer: - I didn't do it!
> " If there is anything more important than my Ego.....
>                  I want it taken out and shot!"  (Zaphod Beablbrox (HHGTTG)).
>
>                             ((-------))
>                                 \o/
>                                  |
>                                _/ \_
>

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 09:45:15 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Intro to WWII-L

Hello, Joe!

Glad to see you assuming the duties of Listowner. I just wanted to
let you know that if there is anything I can do to help, please let
me know.

All the best.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 10:47:03 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Never trust technology!

>
> > I was doing a report on Herbert Ziegler's "Nazi Germany's New Aristocracy",
> > a study of the social background of the SS-Fuhrerkorps.  Some interesting
> > ideas.
>
> Have you read "Order of the Death's Head"?  I consider it THE history of the
> SS.  It has a good overview of the personnel quality rollercoaster phenomenon
> in the SS.
>
Heinz Hohne's book stays on my desk. Very valuable. Gordon Mork (instructor
for my class "Hitler and Germany in the 20th Century") gives it high marks.
I think it's *still* the best single-source history of the SS, even if it
was written in 1966. A "must read."

Larry J

[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 10:50:20 EST
From:    Aldo <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: World at war.......

A lot of acedemic libraries have that sort of thing if you want to
rent/borrow
episodes.  I'm fairly sure our (the university of NC @ G'boro)
library has those, so you might want ot check with your local U.

Aldo

> >     Does anybody know of a way to get a copy/tapes of the World at War
> >     series? I have tried Blockbuster Video and a couple of other little
> >     video shops to no avail. Any ideas out there?
> >
> >     Scott Jones
> >     [email-masked]
> Scott - If you have $649 (US) to spare, call A&E Home Video at 1-800-
> 828-6565 and ask for "The World at War" set of 26 tapes (Item#
> AAE-30700.) Regards - Jonah
>
> Jonah Triebwasser

The Video catalog I referred to a couple days later is called
"Military Video Collection" produced by FUSION Video.  They seem to
have a bunch of neat stuff and you can get a catalog by calling:

                1-800-959-0061

For folks overseas,

                Fusion Video
                100 Fusion Way
                Country Club Hills,  IL  60478  USA

Cheers, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

Aldo M. Hubert
                                           [email-masked]
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
800 Oakland Ave.
Greensboro NC 27412

Sic Friatur Crustum Dulce

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 09:37:23 -0800
From:    "Office TH325, Extension 3566" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Alan Turing, the Enigma, Cryptography

Chris,

>The play starred Derek Jacoby of "I Claudius" fame.
>

Right, I had forgotten that part.

>According to the National Public Radio stories connected with the debut of
>the play, Turing was kind of a strange guy in general.  They noted that he
>had rather lax hygene and that (THEIR claim) he was attracted to young boys,
>though they didn't say how young.  The truth of either of these claims I
>can't comment on.  They were stated as fact in the piece.  The impression given
>was of a man so absorbed in his work that the conventions of everyday society
>were outside of his notice.  He literally had no idea that he was in trouble
>until the world fell on him, and was apparently baffled by the whole thing.
>

That seems consistent with with other accounts I've read of his life.

[parts deleted]

>Rather than merely his homosexuality having led to his suicide, the
>interviewer and the interviewee discussed his PROSECUTION for homosexuality,
>which was illegal in Britain.  I believe he was given shock treatments as a
>condition of his not being encarcerated.  THAT would appear to be the REAL
>reason why he killed himself.  He seems not to have had much concern over
>being a homosexual, and to have given that as little thought as he did to
>anything else unconnected to his work.  Had he lived somewhere else, he might
>yet be alive.

You are right, it was his prosecution for homosexuality, which is what I
meant and should have said.  I'm not certain of the shock treatments,
but (and I should check Hodege's book) I think he was given female
hormones as "treatment".

Peter Hilton, who worked at Bletchly Park, said Turing was the only
genius he had ever met.  Turing contributed much to the success of
breaking the naval Enigma and contributed (IMHO) more to the development
of the modern computer than he generally gets credit for.

John Riegsecker
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 13:02:50 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: American's in Japan

I'm curious about something. I wonder how many American's were living in
Japan on December 7th? What happened to them? Where they swapped for Japanese
that were in America? Seems like I remember reading somewhere that just prior
to December 7, several ship loads of Americans had left Japan but I'm not
sure. On the other side - I remember reading in David Brinkley's "Washington
Goes To War" that the Japenese diplomats were moved to a resort in the
Appalachian mtns. somewhere. I can't remember the specifics about their
ultimate status either. Does anyone have any definite information on either
of these two groups? Also, what happened to the German diplomats living in
America? That must be a terrible feeling being a foreign diplomat in a
country that your home country has just gone to war with.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 12:09:58 -0600
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Turing's teddy bear?

Was it Turing who lived with his mother and had the teddy bear?

Lou

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 12:30:39 -0600
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Intro to WWII-L

Joe, regarding Prohited Topic no. 2., were the Japanese
  maintaining (internment) camps in the U.S. during the war?

:-)

Seriously, you might want to change the wording.  It does
  seem odd, though, that internment camps would be
  off-limits.

Lou

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 12:33:24 -0600
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Rommel the Nazi?

In my considerable readings on Rommel -- he was one of my
  two childhood military heroes, before I left for
  the Academy -- he has always seemed to be more a professional
  careerist:  an opportunist.  His initiative/ambition and
  opportunism certainly characterized his command style and
  performance.

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 14:32:37 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Intro to WWII-L

Lou,

        My decision was based on the bad experience we all had recently
on this topic.  Several of our contributors threatened to (and may have)
unsubscribed from the list and many more expressed a desire to see this
flamefest go away.  As I've mentioned privately to others who expressed
concern, my list of topics is more of a warning to tread gingerly if these
topics are to be discussed.  I intentionally left the wording that they were
not welcomed, though, for the benefit of any new members who might not realize
that these topics can be quite loaded.

        You are right about the wording -- when I read it, I realized that
I had goofed.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
The only way I got to keep them Tigers interested
is to let them shoot holes in me.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 19:47:19 GMT
From:    Stephen Baldwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Intro to WWII-L

Hello everyone!

a couple of points:

1. Many thanks Joe, for keeping the flag flying as it were. A splendid
effort.

2. A genuine question:

Re Joe's observations on US Internment camps:
>               My decision was based on the bad experience we all had recently
>       on this topic.  Several of our contributors threatened to (and may have)
>       unsubscribed from the list and many more expressed a desire to see this
>       flamefest go away.
I get on average 150 emails from various lists every day and spend
a happy few minutes deleting swathes of stuff that either don't
interest me or I don't have time to read. It doesn't bother me in
the slightest... Am I unique in this? I would think not.
Sure, some of the conversations need the gentle arm of the law to
remind the participants of the rules, but unsubscribing seems to
be a touch drastic. Are these folks reading every byte that
appears? I can understand that those subscribing "privately" don't
want to waste their money on phonebills deleting junk from their
mail boxes. [ASIDE - Does anyone know the percentage of the list that
utilises private (as against business/academic) lines?]

cordially

steve baldwin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 14:37:50 CST
From:    Steve Alvin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Intro to WWII-L

I am as pleased as everyone that Joe has agree take over
the ownership of the list.  But, I am some what disappointed that
he has expanded the list ofoff limits topics.  I undstand why
the Holocaust and "what dd Roosevlt know" threads r frowned
on.  The first can attrt theolocaust didn happen" nuts
while the other can't b proven based on exsisting evidence.
But, the internment of Japanese citiens in this country did
happen, no one I knows trying todeny tat.I read the
thread for the last few weeks an, with a notable excepion
the agruments posted were, for the most part, reasonable.  There
are always some people on the lwho will use it to send
mindless flames.  I would rather se the listowner deal quickly
with them than denyingeveryone else an oportunity to discuss
an important aspect of American history and the history of the
2nd World War

--
Steve Alvin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 22:21:19 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: German Nightfighters using AT cannons?

        Hey all

I have been wondering (and not finding this in my sources) if the German
nightfighter force used anti-tank big caliber (50mm or so) cannons on
RAF night bomber formations? It would seem that one or two rounds of
that heavy ammo would take care of any bomber if well places, after all
if such a round kills a T-34/85 then a lightly armoured Lancaster should
suffer heavily.
The Henshel Hs-219 multipurpusa plane (nightfighter/ground attack
fighter) was very succesful in wiping out USSR tanks. 4 Staffeln of them
(12 in each staffeln) nearly wiped out an entire Soviet tank division
flanking II. SS-Das Reich at Kursk in 43. So these planes DID have these
very heavy cannons and using them in nightfighter role with that
ordinance should have caused little trouble, unless they were too heavy
for that altitutes?

Thanks in advance

Gudmundur J. Helgason

E-mail:    [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 22:38:56 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: Wehrmacht troops killing Waffen-SS troops?

Hey all

        This is quite an unusual question I realize but Sven Hazel's
books (all fiction but the first one) have this massive hatred for the
Waffen-SS throughout them. In one of them he tells of one incident that
occured when his penal division was fighting some soviet troops. All of
a sudden both sides noticed a Waffen-SS squad flanking the soviets. Well
both sides ALLIED to wipe out the SS troops and when they had killed
them all they simply resumed fighting each other!
        Sven Hazel's hatred for the Waffen-SS I think partly comes from
envy as his penal division was not as well paid, equipped, trained and
was hardly moved from the front lines at all.
        So. I ask this: Did some Heer troops ever kill Waffen-SS troops
and if so where and when? Did the Waffen-SS "look down" on the Heer?

Bye all

PS: If the above incident was in Warsaw and the Waffen-SS troops were of
the Dierlewanger "division" then I have no trouble at all accepting
their fates :) I doubt the Germans (or any other force) had another unit
of similar "men". I heard somewhere that the average lifespan in the
Dierlewanger unit was about two weeks, true? Hazel actually tells at
least twice in his books that members of this division had to travel in
groups to save themselves from death.

Gudmundur J. Helgason

E-mail:    [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 13:04:13 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Never trust technology!

>
> >
> > > I was doing a report on Herbert Ziegler's "Nazi Germany's New Aristocracy",
> > > a study of the social background of the SS-Fuhrerkorps.  Some interesting
> > > ideas.
> >
> > Have you read "Order of the Death's Head"?  I consider it THE history of the
> > SS.  It has a good overview of the personnel quality rollercoaster phenomenon
> > in the SS.
> >
> Heinz Hohne's book stays on my desk. Very valuable. Gordon Mork (instructor
> for my class "Hitler and Germany in the 20th Century") gives it high marks.
> I think it's *still* the best single-source history of the SS, even if it
> was written in 1966. A "must read."

I just recommended it to a friend who's a Jewish activist involved in the
Demjanjuk case.

I've had and used my copy since my mother stole it while on jury duty in
the '60s.... :)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 13:09:45 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Never trust technology!

>
> Hello, Christopher!
>
> > Have you read "Order of the Death's Head"?  I consider it THE history of the
> > SS.  It has a good overview of the personnel quality rollercoaster phenomenon
> > in the SS.
>
>     No, I have not yet read it, but I do have a copy of it. There are
> others besides this one that are considered classics. George H.

My mother "liberated" my copy while on jury duty in the late '60s.  :)

Pretty wierd considering I can't recall her actually reading a book at all in
the last ten years or more.  Maybe she just thought I'd want it.

> Stein's work "The History of the Waffen-SS" is a good read. I don't
> know if you read German, but there have been many excellent works
> appear in German which were published by the now defunct Munin Verlag
> out of Osnabrueck.

The extent of my German is "halbkettenfahrzeuge" and similar technical terms. :)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 13:46:40 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Alan Turing, the Enigma, Cryptography

> >Rather than merely his homosexuality having led to his suicide, the
> >interviewer and the interviewee discussed his PROSECUTION for homosexuality,
> >which was illegal in Britain.  I believe he was given shock treatments as a
> >condition of his not being encarcerated.  THAT would appear to be the REAL
> >reason why he killed himself.  He seems not to have had much concern over
> >being a homosexual, and to have given that as little thought as he did to
> >anything else unconnected to his work.  Had he lived somewhere else, he might
> >yet be alive.
>
> You are right, it was his prosecution for homosexuality, which is what I
> meant and should have said.  I'm not certain of the shock treatments,
> but (and I should check Hodege's book) I think he was given female
> hormones as "treatment".

You could be right.  I recalled shock treatments, but I could be wrong.
Whatever treatments he received they led to deep depression and suicide.

> Peter Hilton, who worked at Bletchly Park, said Turing was the only
> genius he had ever met.  Turing contributed much to the success of
> breaking the naval Enigma and contributed (IMHO) more to the development
> of the modern computer than he generally gets credit for.

It's a shame that he and British society couldn't have met each other half-
way.  It's interesting to imagine what he'd be doing now.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 13:06:47 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Never trust technology!

>
> Hello, again, Christopher!
>
>
> > Have you read Sydnor's book on Theodor Eiche and the Totenkopf Division?
> > I think it's called "Soldiers of Destruction".
>
>     Yes, and I have personally corresponded with Dr. Sydnor on this
> work in relation to those former soldiers and/or family members who
> fought with this division. Dr. Sydnor told me he had not personally
> interviewed Otto Baum and Karl Ullrich, who were both closely
> associated with the Totenkopf Division. I wondered about that,
> because I know of no two officers who were with this division who
> could have provided personal insights into the character of Theodor
> Eicke, and their own exploits with this division. Karl Ullrich was an
> engineer who commanded the regiment which bore Eicke's name after the
> latter's death. Baum eventually commanded the "Das Reich" and the
> "Reichsfuehrer SS" Divisions, the latter division set-up and
> commanded by Max Simon, who was also a former commander of the
> Totenkopf Division.

I have no explanation.  However some of these people (German and Japanese
veterans) will talk to no one.  He could possibly have been told by others
that they wouldn't talk.  I don't know.  I did find it a very interesting
book, especially with regard to discipline of SS units in and out of
combat.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 17:33:53 -0600
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Intro to WWII-L

In message  writes:
> I am as pleased as everyone that Joe has agree take over
> the ownership of the list.  But, I am some what disappointed that
> he has expanded the list ofoff limits topics.  I undstand why
> the Holocaust and "what dd Roosevlt know" threads r frowned
> on.  The first can attrt theolocaust didn happen" nuts
> while the other can't b proven based on exsisting evidence.
> But, the internment of Japanese citiens in this country did
> happen, no one I knows trying todeny tat.I read the
> thread for the last few weeks an, with a notable excepion
> the agruments posted were, for the most part, reasonable.  There
> are always some people on the lwho will use it to send
> mindless flames.  I would rather se the listowner deal quickly
> with them than denyingeveryone else an oportunity to discuss
> an important aspect of American history and the history of the
> 2nd World War

Even the "off limits" topics get discussed here from time to time, including
the Holocaust.

If the discussion centers around the history of such and stays away from
terminology, (some) discussion of ethics, etc.

The rationale for the issues are as important as the discussion of the
facts, but when the discussion turns into a flame-fest over what did or
did not happen, revisionism, who knew what (or didn't), terminology, etc.
etc. etc. then I see the thread should be killed.

Personally, I've always viewed the "off limits" list as more of a warning.
Discuss the facts, but use caution to prevent the topic from going off
kilter and in the wrong (and non-productive) direction.  i.e., I'm on notice
if I choose to enter into these topics.

In other words, if you choose to discuss the handling of Japanese-Americans
during WWII, just be a little more cautious about the direction and purpose
of the discussion.

I'm sure Joe will correct me if I view this incorrectly based on what he
is intending...

--
Robert J. Granvin                                             [email-masked]
University of Minnesota, School of Statistics
         "I'm my father?  I'm my mother?  I'm chipped beef on toast?"

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 19:06:35 -0500
From:    William Eldridge <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Americans in Japan

John Davis wrote:

> I wonder how many American's were living in
> Japan on December 7th? What happened to them?

One American stuck in Japan was "Iva Toguri d'Aquino, a Los Angeles-born
nesei girl in her mid-twenties who joined Radio Tokyo as a typist after
the outbreak of war barred her passage home, and who was persuaded to
assist the team preparing the 'Zero Hour,' the nightly propaganda
broadcasts aimed at undermining the morale of American troops."

She became known as "Tokyo Rose," and paradoxically *increased* the
troops' morale by playing good Stateside music and letting them hear a
female American voice, thus reminding them of home and why they were
fighting. Nevertheless, d'Aquino, "whose U.S. citizenship made her a
convenient scapegoat, was tried in 1945 and convicted as a traitor. She
was sentenced to ten years in prison and a $10,000 fine for the
entertainment she had provided to millions of GIs."

(Quoted passages are from John Costello's book, *Virtue Under Fire: How
World War II Changed Our Social and Sexual Attitudes* [Boston: Little,
Brown, 1985; paperpack: New York: Fromm International, 1987])

-- Bill Eldridge

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 19:00:26 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Intro to WWII-L

Upon the new ownership of the list, I will re-state an opinion I stated
earlier.

Somehow, the idea of censoring the discussion of certain topics seems
inappropriate to me in any academic forum, whether it is the classroom
or this list.  I believe that no topic should be out of bounds.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I firmly believe that the flame which was recently
exhibited on the list is unbecoming and unacceptable, whether it occurs
in the classroom or on this list.

In other words, I believe that the criteria both in the classroom and on
the list should be the achievement of a reasonable level of civilized ACADEMIC
DISCOURSE.  Those who desire to preach, inflame, insult, or grind their own
personal axes should fine a home elsewhere.  Maybe even create their own
list -- call it FLAME-L.

My short membership on this list has been very instructive and informative.
I hope it continues that way.  Perhaps the new list owner will find a way
for messages that break the bounds to get sidtracked into the ether.

  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic. |    economic, social, political     |
  |                                  |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |                                  |  B-25 in WWII.                     |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 18 Mar 1994 20:40:21 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Alan Turing, the Enigma, Cryptography

'Think the play you mention was enetitled, BREAKING THE CODE. Obvious
play on words; Turing's cryptographic work, and his homosexuality.
        Your coming across mention of Turing's involvement with young
boys is not often mentioned now, as biographers prefer to mention
only his adult homo partners.
        It is a distasteful fact that Turing was a predatory pederast,
making a pest of himself at Saturday afternoon movie matinees.  There
was mention that he was arrested so many times for molesting boys --
and released because of his war-work -- that no less than the Chief
Constable of Buckinghamshire became personally inscenced, and took
his complaint to the top.  Nonetheless, Turing went unpunished, but
was warned to confine his amours to adults in future.  There's detail
of this in a couple of books about MI5.  Titles escape me, but should
not be too hard to track down by anyone wishing confirmation.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 17 Mar 1994 to 18 Mar 1994
*************************************************