Subject: WWII-L Digest - 22 Mar 1994 to 23 Mar 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 00:01:30 -0500

There are 30 messages totalling 1241 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Nost: Warbird's crash (2)
  2. INF: USAAF 23 MAR 44
  3. INF: Ike's prewar carreer (2)
  4. HELP!!! (2)
  5. WEAP: BV-141, The strange asymmetric plane (3)
  6. New List
  7. WEAP: Bv-141 and asymmetric plane concept (2)
  8. INF: FRANCE MAGAZINE ON LETTERS HOME
  9. WEAP: Foo Fighters, Secret Weapons, etc.
 10. Alsace/Colmar; command cooperation
 11. Terry (3)
 12. ENIGMA - Mathematical Solution of
 13. WEAP: Bv-141 and asymetric configuration
 14. Re[2]: INF: Eisenhower Library Commemorates D-Day
 15. Re[2]: Nost: Warbird's crash (2)
 16. Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)
 17. No Poles in Eastern Poland!  Hmmmm.
 18. GEN: Mistreatment German POWs?
 19. Re[2]: Nost: Warbird...
 20. Barrage Balloons
 21. DOC: Jurgen Rohwer's Chronology?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 22:42:41 +0000
From:    John Behrens <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Nost: Warbird's crash

On Mon, 21 Mar 1994, Steve Alvin wrote:

> The local news on saturday night mentioned that two warbirds
> collided in the sky over Texas and crashed, destroying both planes
> (and I think killing a couple of people).  I have not seen anythin
> in the paper about this.  Does anyone on the list know more?
> I assume they were part of the CAF, but I could be wrong.
>
> --
> Steve Alvin
> [email-masked]
>

I have not heard of this, but I can tell you the Super Corsair racer
belonging to the Planes of Fame Air Museum in Chino, CA blew an engine
and crashed Saturday at the Pheonix 500.  The pilot did manage to bail
out and only break his aankle as he hit the horizontal stabalizer on his
way out.  What a shame to loose a plane like that.  It hurt watching it
go down, with flames extending back from the cowl 3-4 times the length of
the fuselage.  Luckily the pilot directed it to an unpopulated area, and
no one on the ground was hurt.  If this crash in Texas also occured, it
ws not a good weekend in the warbird community.

                                        John

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 07:01:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 23 MAR 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 23 MARCH 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): A detachment of the 11th Fighter Squadron,
343d Fighter Group, begins operating from Amchitka Island with P-40s and
P-38s; the squadron is based on Adak Island.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In the Chin Hills region of Burma, 12 B-24s
and 10 P-38s bomb Kalewa, and 9 B-25s attack Kaing and Shwebo; in the Katha
area 12 P-51s bomb Naba Station while 12 others join 9 B-25s in attacking
ammunition and gas dumps at Indaw; 4 P-40s bomb stores at Kamaing while 30+
other fighters fly armed reconnaissance over the Mogaung Valley in general;
and 12 B-24s pound Moulmein jetty and attack Moulmein-Bangkok railroad
targets, destroying 2 bridges, damaging several others, and scoring effective
hits on 2 trains.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In French Indochina, B-25s on a railroad
sweep N from Vinh destroy 2 engines and several boxcars at Van Trai Station
yards and attack 3 bridges between Vinh and Thanh Hoa.
  HQ 312th Fighter Wing moves from Kunming to Chengtu, China.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 275: 524 B-17s and 244
B-24s are dispatched to attack airfields in W Germany and aircraft factories
in the Brunswick area; due to unfavorable weather conditions, only 68 B-24s
hit a primary target and 639 bombers hit secondary targets and targets of
opportunity; the bombers claim 33-8-11 Luftwaffe aircraft; 22 B-17s, 6
B-24s and 4 P-51s are lost; details are:
  1. 205 B-17s hit Brunswick and 3 hit targets of opportunity; 16 B-17s are
lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 221 damaged; casualties are 3 KIA, 6 WIA
and 158 MIA.
  2. 47 B-17s hit the secondary target at Munster, 83 hit Hamm, 67 hit Ahlen
and 19 hit Neubeckum; 6 B-17s are lost and 56 damaged; casualties are 1 KIA,
3 WIA and 61 MIA.
  3. 68 B-24s hit the primary target, Handorf Airfield; 36 hit Achmer City,
21 hit Achmer Airfield, 12 hit Munster, 52 hit Osnabruck and 14 hit other
targets of opportunity; 6 B-24s are lost and 45 damaged; casualties are 1 WIA
and 59 MIA.
  Escort is provided by 119 P-38s, 539 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and
183 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s; details are:
  1. P-38s: no claims or losses.
  2. P-47s claim 4-0-10 Luftwaffe aircraft; 1 P-47 is damaged beyond repair
and 1 damaged.
  3. P-51s claim 18-1-6 Luftwaffe aircraft; 4 P-51s are lost and 1 damaged; 4
pilots are MIA.
  The fighters also claim 2-0-10 Luftwaffe aircraft on the ground.
  Mission 276: 5 of 5 B-17s drop 262 bundles of leaflets on Grenoble, Vichy,
Lyon, Toulouse and Limoges, France at 2227-2304 hours without loss.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 220 B-26s on a morning mission bomb
Creil marshalling yard and airfields at Beaumont-le-Roger and Beauvais/Tille;
in an afternoon raid, 146 bomb Haine-Saint-Pierre marshalling yard.
  31st Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron, III Reconnaissance Command,
arrives at Chalgrove, England from the US with F-5s; first mission is 10 Apr.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-26s bomb Florence/
Campo di Marte marshalling yard while B-25s hit the Pontassieve railway
bridge and its approaches; P-40s attack guns in the Cassino-Esperia area,
causing many fires and explosions; A-36s bomb the Cassino area with good
results; the Germans have been forced into a narrow zone in the W edge of
Cassino but still hold positions commanding the town and the Abbey; the New
Zealand Corps breaks off the attack.
  HQ 340th Bombardment Group (Medium) moves from Pompeii to Paestum, Italy.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-24s from Kwajalein Atoll bomb
Wake Island; B-25s flying out of Eniwetok Atoll hit Ponape Island; and Tarawa
Atoll-based B-25s strike Maloelap and Jaluit Atolls, commencing a series of
B-25 shuttle-missions between Tarawa or Makin Island and the US Navy's (USNs)
new base at Majuro Atoll which is used as the rearming base for the return
strike.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): 14 P-38s bomb targets of
opportunity at Komaleai Point on Bougainville Island while 24 B-25s hit the
Buka area of Buka Island after weather prevented scheduled attacks on Rabaul.
On New Britain Island, fighters fly sweeps over Rabaul and general New
Ireland Island area, and 12 P-40s bomb fuel dump at Keravia Bay; 15 B-24s out
of 24 dispatched plow through the bad weather and bomb the Ratawul supply
area.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, nearly 100
B-24s, B-25s, A-20s and P-47s hit numerous targets in the Aitape, Wewak,
Alexishafen, and Hansa Bay areas; and B-24s bomb Babo and during the night
attack shipping in the Bismarck Sea. On New Britain Island, 29 P-40s attack
Talasea and nearby bivouacs, including Gogosi.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 12:40:53 MET-1
From:    Bognar Attila <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Ike's prewar carreer

Jim,

Thanks for this info, I've not heard of this book yet. I will keep
watching for it though I really don't hope to be able to get it.
There aren't many stores here that sells books on such topics in
foreign languages. (Or at least I've failed to discover them so far.)

Now that I know that Ike and Patton were good friends I tend to
understand Ike' actions a little bit better. I could never understand
really why did he turn a blind eye on Patton's (or generally on
Bradley's) actions so many times.
(OK, this was meant to be provoking!)
What do you think?

Attila  [email-masked]
------------------------------------------------------------

> Attila,
> Listening to Carlo D'Este at the Eisenhower Symposium in
> January reading from his upcoming book on Eisenhower's and
> Patton's interwar years, they were very good friends.  Patton
> was older, and usually one rank higher than Ike.  Their wives
> were also close.
>
> They spent quite a bit of time discussing armor tactics when
> they were stationed together.  The relationship seemed to last
> right up to the war.
>
> I did not get the name of D'Este's new book, but if you are
> interested, watch for it.
>
>
> Jim Irwin
> Defense Personnel Support Center
> Philadelphia PA
> [email-masked]
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 13:20:08 MET-1
From:    Bognar Attila <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HELP!!!

Kate,

I know you asked for some recent sources and most of these aren't
very recent. Still maybe you don't know some of these though they (or
some of them) might be of help:

- Adam B. ULAM: Expansion & Coexistence. The History of Soviet
Foreign Policy 1917-1967. London, 1968.

 - Vojtech MASTNY: Russia's Road to the Cold War. Diplomacy, Warfare
and the Politics of Communism, 1941-1945. NY, 1979.

 - Diplomacy of the Grand Alliance 1941-1945. (I don't have the place
and time of publication in my notes, sorry.)

 - Sir Arthur BRYANT: A History of the War Years. Based on the
Diaries of Field Marshall Lord Alanbrooke. NY, 1957-59.

Well, not a long list, but that's what I have.
Hope this helps, good luck with your project.

Attila  [email-masked]

--------------------------------------------------------
>
> I've just joined this network and its very interesting.  I am a student at
> JMU and I'm doing a project on Anglo-Soviet relations during the war.  I've
> had fairly good luck with older monographs, but I've had a problem finding
> more recent ones.  I could also use some suggestions for good journal
> articles (or just good journals in general).  I'd appreciate any feedback
> that any of you have.  Thanks!
>
> Kate Raikes
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 09:58:19 +0100
From:    Yannick FRANCOIS Bozzo the Clown Yin Yang <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: BV-141, The strange asymmetric plane

Hi!

>    The only plane I can find that would "have one wing shorter than the
>other" is the Blohm und Voss BV-141.

>From the top of my head, every motorplane (as opposed to jetplane)
>>>must<<< have a wing longer than the other to compensate for the
mouvement of the helix (not sure of the word). It was especially true for
many planes during WWII: the Reggiane 2001 (11cm if I remenber well), Ta
159,...

Bye - Yannick

<=======================================================> O         |\
< Man is a tool-using animal....Without tools he is     >    0      | |
< nothing, with tools he is all. - T. Carlyle           >      o    | |
< Knowledge itself is power. - F. Bacon                 >   ____.___|/
< An expert is one who knows more and more about less   >  /  _   _  \
< and less. - N. Butler                                 >  | / \ / \ |
< Je pense, donc je suis. - R. Descartes                >  | O_  o_  |
<=======================================================>  |    |    |
                                                           \   / \   /
                                                            \ \___/ /
                                                             \_____/

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 08:52:18 EST
From:    Aldo <[email-masked]>
Subject: New List

Everyone at WWII-L,

I recieved this message this morning and thought some of ya'll might
be interested.

Aldo Hubert

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

This is an announcement for a new list, Deremi-l.  Deremi-l is intended to
promoted the discussion of medieval military history.  The following is
the introductory paragraph describing the list.

Deremi-l is a discussion list dedicated to the study and academic
discussion of all aspects of medieval military history.  Posts to this
list might include bibliographic questions and answers, research topics,
book reviews, discussion of conference papers and publications, and any
other appropriate topics of interest to the subscribers of the list.
Additionally the list welcomes the posting of all announcements and
information, course offereings, exhibitions, upcoming workshops and
lectures, and other appropriate events.  Discussion of current events
should be avoided except when they are closely tied to medieval military
history.  Otherwise a broad definition of "medieval" history should be
considered.  Similarly topics concerning social, political, technological,
narrative, or any other aspect of military history are welcome.  Also,
posts concerning regions outside Europe and the Mediterranean are
encouraged.  The listowner is open to suggestions that might imporve the
list.  Above all else Deremi-l is intended to facilitate the free exchange
of ideas and information in an enjoyable, lively, and productive forum.

To subscribe to this list please send the following command to
[email-masked]

SUB DEREMI-L <You Name>

We welcome all who wish to join our merry band.

Still Smiling
Monte Turner

Aldo M. Hubert
                                           [email-masked]
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
800 Oakland Ave.
Greensboro NC 27412

Sic Friatur Crustum Dulce

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 16:13:31 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: BV-141, The strange asymmetric plane

On Wed, 23 Mar 1994, Yannick FRANCOIS Bozzo the Clown Yin Yang wrote:
>
> >From the top of my head, every motorplane (as opposed to jetplane)
> >>>must<<< have a wing longer than the other to compensate for the
> mouvement of the helix (not sure of the word). It was especially true for
> many planes during WWII: the Reggiane 2001 (11cm if I remenber well), Ta
> 159,...

No, it can also be compensated by giving the tailfin a slight angle with
the rest of the aircraft. A few degrees is normal.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 07:04:35 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Ike's prewar carreer

Hello, Jim!

Thanks for your note.

> What is a "Proceedings?"  A form of formal written acount of
> the Symposium?  Please explain further, and I will check out
> with Valley Forge Military Academy and Junior College about
> it.  Thanks for your query.

    In a word, yes. Usually after some event such as the one in which
so many noted scholars participated, there would be a summation
published after the event as a matter of record for the conference.
This record would contain the gist of the points made and discussed.
If there is such a record, I would like to obtain a copy. Please
advise, and if there are expenses, please let me know.

Thanks.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 10:10:46 EST
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Bv-141 and asymmetric plane concept

Hello,

> From the top of my head, every motorplane (as opposed to jetplane)
> >>>must<<< have a wing longer than the other to compensate for the
> mouvement of the helix (not sure of the word).

Yes, I think this movement need to be compensated in some way. Remember
the effect on the WW-I Sopwith Camel. You had to compensate the propeller
effect by a massive use of the rudder pedals. In normal conditions, when
you turned the Camel to one side, it tends to raise the nose, while when
you turned to the other side, it tends to drop. An incorrect compensation
of this propeller effect would end in an horizontal barrel. The Camel was
an excelent fighter anyway.

> More obvius visual characteristic is that ther was almost no right
> tailwing at all (maybe about 90% of the tailwing was on the left side of
> the tail). This was done to countereffect the extra weight on the right
> wing, (the crew-hausing) was located there, I assume.

Yes, almost all of the stabilizer of the Bv-141B was on the left side. The
main reason was to give a better visibility and field of fire to the crew
members. I think the horizontal stabilizer weight was insignificant compared
with the fuselage-engine and the cockpit modules. The location of these
modules was also asymetrical (the outer left wing section, starting from
the fuselage, was longer than the outer right wing section, starting from
the cockpit module). I thing this configuration was the main factor to
compensate the weight of these modules.

> Actually, the Bv 141B model was far more powerful and heavier than the A
> model. The RLM had rejected the A model as underpowered. Unfortunately th
> handling suffered; the A model had good handling, but the B was not
> received very well.

Yes, the original Bv-141 prototypes had an 800 hp engine. The Bv-141A version
had a 1000 hp engine, and the Bv-141B version used a 1400 hp (approx) engine.
The B version had an increased wingspan, and the characteristic full-left
stabilizer. I think this added asymetry was the main cause of the poor
handling characteristics of the B model.

Another interesting german aircraft was the Bachem Ba-349 Natter. It was a
ground vertical-launched aircraft, intended to shot down the allied bombers.
About 50 prototypes of the Ba-349A version were tested, including four manned
flights (the first manned flight killed the pilot, when the cockpit opened
during takeoff, and the pilot got unconscious). The next step was the Ba-349B,
with a modified fuselage to allow the installation of a new improved rocket
engine. Over 40 were built, and they were put into operational service. There
were about 10 launch pads near to the factory, with these aircraft ready to
be launched, waiting for the allied bombers. However, the allied tanks
arrived first, and destroyed them before they could be used.

This aircraft consisted in a very little fuselage, with short wings, and
four auxiliary rockets to assist takeoff. These rockets were expendable.
The main rocket engine was into the little fuselage. The nose had a rocket
launcher. The aircraft was semi-recoverable. After launching the nose rockets
against an allied aircraft, the pilot bails out, by separating the cockpit
section from the engine section. The engine section was recoverable. The
cockpit falls away from the pilot, and he becomes free, to use his parachute.

About Foo Fighters, many UFO stories were raised when people tried to explain
these phenomena. The fact is that they were seen by both allied and axis crews
and as some friends said, they were also seen in the Pacific scenery.

If they were little Radar-shooting devices, as my friend said, why were they
kept in secret until recent years?

Thanks for your answers,

Jorge

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 14:50:17 +0100
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: FRANCE MAGAZINE ON LETTERS HOME

     In its winter issue, FRANCE Magazine, published by the
French Embassy in Washington, had a special section on D-
Day. One of the pages was devoted to an excerpt from my book
LETTERS HOME: A WAR MEMOIR and an article by Farah
Nayeri. The excerpt was a letter I wrote to my parents on June
28, shortly after the liberation of Cherbourg. It contained
recollections of D-Day.,
     Farah Nayeri is a freelance journalist, living in Paris.
Since her comments were the kind that warms an author's
heart, I cannot resist sharing them. The following is
the text of her article:

     While editors scramble to get D-Day books out in time for
the 50th anniversary celebrations, one volume has quietly made
it onto the shelves: LETTERS HOME: A WAR MEMOIR,
published on a Personal Computer and advertised through
excerpts posted on electronic bulletin boards. The author of this
unusual work is John Ausland, a retired foreign service officer
and veteran of the U.S. 4th Division that landed at Utah Beach
on D-Day.
     The catalyst for LETTERS HOME was Operation Desert
Storm. "Up until then," admits Ausland, "the Second World War
had affected me very little." But when the bombs started falling
on Iraq, he could not help but feel troubled. "I knew we were
killing a lot of Iraqis. Yet people were acting as if it was just a
circus. I was in favor of the allied assault, and I understood
why they were doing it, but I was still disturbed."
     "Then," he remembers, "my wife Else said, `Why don't you
open up that green box?'"
     So John Ausland opened the little metal box, the one he
had not touched since the war, the one that contained every
letter he had written to his parents from the battlefront in
Europe. It was a painful confrontation with memories he had
tried so long to suppress. "It wasn't writing the book that I
found difficult," he says, "It was beginning to write it." But
Ausland persevered, compiling the letters with the help of "that
wonderful adult toy, the computer," and adding afterthoughts
and recollections to place each letter in its proper context.
     Ausland published the book himself because "no
publisher would have published it exactly as I wished. I wanted
this book to be mine."
     Indeed, LETTERS HOME: A WAR MEMOIR is nothing if
not a personal, even intimate account of Ausland's life and
times from 1944 to 1945. With its clear, simple prose and
contained emotion, the book is a beautiful and very moving
piece of writing.
     "It is not easy to explain to people who have not
experienced it what combat is like," observes Ausland in the
prologue. "Try to imagine being involved in a series of car
crashes in which people get killed or seriously hurt, from which
you emerge without a scratch."
     Interspersed amid Ausland's accounts of the fighting are
purely entertaining interludes that were as much a part of his
life as day-to-day combat. The chapter about the two Ernests,
both war correspondents - Hemingway the swaggerer and the
Pyle the man of reserve - is a joy to read. They were "as unlike
each other as two men can be," writes Ausland, yet both
accompanied the 4th Division in its forays through France.
     But the lighthearted letters are always overshadowed by
graver ones. Ausland gives an unforgiving firsthand account of
the scene at a concentration camp near Landsberg, Germany:
"Such things do not, simply cannot, happen in a civilized
country," he writes. "Perhaps then Germany is not civilized.
Maybe the fiends who perpetrated these crimes and the people
who condoned them have completely left the pale of the modern
world. It's possible that they do not deserve to live alongside
other people. I don't know."
     War does, indeed, leave many a question unanswered.
One that confronted Ausland throughout his life was how to
deal with people of German origin, for he was to meet quite a
few later in life. After earning a graduate degree from
Princeton's School of Public and International Affairs, Ausland
joined the Foreign Service and spent of quarter-century in
Germany, Yugoslavia, Australia, Norway and Switzerland as a
civilian foreign serviceman specializing in military affairs. His
area of expertise, Germany.
     "My feelings toward the Germans was very complex," he
says. "I worked with them in Germany a lot and learned to
submerge my feelings about the war. But unification got me
worrying. I knew that it was one thing to deal with a divided
Germany, and yet another thing to deal with a united
Germany." Ausland, who now lives in Norway, says he does not
have "any illusions that Nazism is dead in Germany, any more
than it is elsewhere."
     Meanwhile, Ausland's computer-literate readers modem
their approval to the delighted author. One of the most
touching messages came from a 27-year old Californian named
William Scarvie. "I feel rather inadequate," he wrote. "I've never
been to war, and God willing, I'll never have to go. I feel I'm
almost unworthy of sharing the experiences of veterans through
their stories because I wasn't there and I'll never know that it
was really like. For now, I just want to say thank you for
sharing your experiences with history enthusiasts like me." END
TEXT

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 10:07:07 -0600
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: HELP!!!

Kate,

     My just-completed/-completing!! thesis about Katyn
has included a survey of many key sources.

     When I get it on Internet/Byrd, I'll let you know.

Lou Coatney

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 11:07:13 EST
From:    Ingalls Steven MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: BV-141, The strange asymmetric plane

Yannick,

Your posting regards asymmetric aircraft said:
>
>>From the top of my head, every motorplane (as opposed to jetplane)
>>>>must<<< have a wing longer than the other to compensate for the
>mouvement of the helix (not sure of the word). It was especially true for
>many planes during WWII: the Reggiane 2001 (11cm if I remenber well), Ta
>159,...
>
I'm not sure about the helix you're referring to.  If it's the prop wash, no,
aircraft are not built asymmetrically to compensate this.  Asymmetric aircraft
present lots of problems to both aircraft designers and those looking at
aircraft dynamics.  I'm curious about the Reggiane 2001 aircraft you reference
above.

MAJ Stephen Ingalls
USMA, West Point
FLY ARMY!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 13:07:44 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Foo Fighters, Secret Weapons, etc.

Blohm % Voss Bv-141
Richard Vogt designed it.
Designed to compete with Fw-189 to supplement the Ju-87.
Actually built, at own cost, 39'10" long wignspan 50'8"
8600 pound weight, power:BMW132 865hp radial engine.
top speed 248 mph, ceiling 29530, range 700 miles
Flew:25 February 1938, 3 more protoypes and 10 production Bv-141A
built, but because of asymmetrics never well liked.
British reportedly laughed at them when they saw them.
Plane had a nacelle with engine (no cockpit) with a wing on the
left, and on the right was the cockpit(no nacelle) with a shorter
wing on the right.  Tail on the end of the nacelle with left stabilizer
much larger/longer than the right one.  I actually have a picture of
it flying, so I believe that it worked.

                                                Kollar
source:The World's Worst Aircraft
                By:Bill Yenne, Dorset Press
        A pretty funny volume if anyone has the time to peruse it.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 14:01:00 EST
From:    Don Bowden <[email-masked]>
Subject: Alsace/Colmar; command cooperation

        Jim,
As far as I can tell the discussion of the possible opportunities in Alsace
are little known or discussed. That is one reason why I was surprised to see
it gone into in some detail in an official history, which I thought would be
dry as dust. Scott Hannon has also commented upon the situation there.
"Riviera to the Rhine" suggests that Eisenhower should have reinforced success
rather than failures further north. I agree that the terrain east of the Rhine
might not have been the best, but then everybody was happy to get Remagen which
was also thought to be less than an ideal place to cross the Rhine. At least
one reason for Eisenhower's lack of support is probably the broad front
strategy. The Germans had shown the ability to stop single initiatives like
Market Garden. Also SHEAF seemed more interested in conquering the Saar and
Ruhr-- industrial centers. This is also commented upon-- American doctrine/
strategy was supposed to be destruction of the enemy army, not occupying
real estate.
        Scott's comment about battlefield intelligence is well taken. The
implication is that Devers and his command made good use of battlefield
intelligence in combination with ULTRA, while the generals further north
were relying too much on ULTRA with the consequent surprise in the Ardennes.
        The only other book, besides unit histories, that I have read is
Operation Northwind by Whiting which doesn't go into the period earlier
than the German offensive in January. One thing this book does discuss is
the volatile atmosphere in France at this time. Apparently DeGaulle was by
no means securely seated in power. Among other things several French divi-
sions were being pulled out of the line to clear the Gironde estuary of
Germans to open Bordeaux. Devers etc thought there was no military jus-
tification but 2 French divisions in SW France would sure discourage the
communists, etc. from trying to set up there own government.
        From the quotes and references to Dever's diary, he must have been
going crazy with getting no help from SHAEF and the French units getting
ready to pull out.
        One thing is very clear, the ANVIL invasion of Southern France was
more than justified. In late 1944 more than a third of Allied supplies were
coming in through southern France. So it was supporting Armies to the N.
as well as the 6th Army Group of around 12 divisions. Imagine how stretched
the front would have been without ANVIL and what could have happened in
the B of the Bulge. Devers is credited with keeping ANVIL alive in the
Face of British opposition (the operation was canceled once).
        Finally it appears that Ike just plain didn't like Devers (i.e.
no pictures of them standing together in johdpurs(sp)). He rated him very
low (beneath Army commanders). Devers was a protoge of Marshall also and
was the one (American) Army commander Ike didn't request. This is all in-
teresting since it seems to point to an area of Ikes personality which was
little if ever seen-- was he jealous/distrustful of Devers? Also reflects
the double standard for Ike's treatment of American vs. Allied commanders
who he seems to have been very sensitive to.
Regards,
Don Bowden
Winston-Salem, NC

(I'll carry on about operational efficiency of the German (or any other)
army vs. American in the future!)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 09:52:51 EST
From:    Bill Vasilion <[email-masked]>
Subject: Terry

            Hi Terry.
              I think that Ike may have met Patton
         but of the things I have read I don't know if Patton did meet
        Ike.  For a long time Patton was with the cavarly ???
        He did know Omar bradley but I dont know who much actual
       interaction with these two individuals Eisenhower had.
       I do think that Eisenhower did have a choice on whether to
       allow United States troops take berlin or let the russians.
              I think Eisenhower was the best choice for the
        overall job, just like Churchill was the best choice for
       Britain in it;s darkest hour. We will fight them on the beaches
         we will (ooops sorry got carried away)
Has anyone read "is paris burning?' an old book about the
         liberation  of paris by the allies and de gaulle
            taking the credit..? I find it an interesting book
       about the Paris occcupation.
               bill    [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 11:40:56 -0800
From:    John Riegsecker <[email-masked]>
Subject: ENIGMA - Mathematical Solution of

A week or so ago someone asked for references on the mathematical aspects
of ENGIMA.  I sent a reply but I didn't save a copy of my note.  In case I
did not include the following reference, here it is again.

Mathematical Solution of the Enigma Cipher, Marian Rejewski [Translated by
Christopher Kasparek] CRYPTOLOGIA, January 1982.

I just came across this again while going through my files.  Marian
Rejewski was one of the Polish Mathematicians who broke Enigma.  The
article gives a good descripition of the workings of Enigma and the methods
used to break it.  You should know a little group theory (it uses
permutation groups) to understand it.

John Riegsecker                                 (206) 756-3566
Dept of Math and Computer Science               [email-masked]
University of Puget Sound

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 13:42:10 EST
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Bv-141 and asymetric configuration

In a prior note, Yannick wrote:

> From the top of my head, every motorplane (as opposed to jetplane)
> >>>must<<< have a wing longer than the other to compensate for the
> mouvement of the helix (not sure of the word).

And I answered:

> Yes, I think this movement need to be compensated in some way. Remember
> the effect on the WW-I Sopwith Camel. You had to compensate the propeller
> effect by a massive use of the rudder pedals. In normal conditions, when
> you turned the Camel to one side, it tends to raise the nose, while when
> you turned to the other side, it tends to drop. An incorrect compensation
> of this propeller effect would end in an horizontal barrel. The Camel was
> an excelent fighter anyway.

It doesn't mean that the way to compensate the propeller effect is by
using asymetric wings. I think this effect could be compensated by setting
the rudder and ailerons in some default position (not necessary centered),
so they will counteract the propeller rotation effect, and it should be
transparent to the pilot.

I would be very interested in such details about the Reggiane 2001 and the
Ta-159. Please post any information about them.

Thanks,

Jorge

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 12:47:28 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: INF: Eisenhower Library Commemorates D-Day

The Dwight D. Eisenhower Library in Abeline, Kansas, and the Eisenhower
Center at the University of New Orleans are sponsoring a D-Day
Commemorative on "D-Day, The Soldier's Story" in Abeline on May 12-15
May, 1994.

Panel discussions will be held regarding the operation, to include the
following particiapnts: Winston Churchill II (grandson of Winnie),
Phillipe DeGaulle (son of Chuck), David Montgomery (son of Bernie),
Manfred Rommel (son of Irwin), John Howard (Brit Para of Pegasus
Bridge), Col. Hans von Luck (21st Panzer Divison and author), MG Peter
Martin, British Army retired (Vet of operation), MG Albert Smith, USA
retired (vet of 16th RCT, 1st ID), and COL Robert Vickers, USAF retired
(8th AF).

Featured speaker in the programs will be Stephen Ambrose, Director of
the Eisenhower Center in New Orleans and author, and Dr. David Reynolds,
who will discuss his book, "The American 'Occupation of England,
1942-45." I copied the information from 8th Air Force news.  More
information can be reached by calling the Eisenhower Library at
913-263-4751.  The WWII Airman's Preservation Society and WWII Historica
l Reenactment Society has been invited by Senator Bob Dole to set up a
display at the event, on the library grounds.

I won't be attending, because I will be in my green, not brown uniform
that weekend.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 07:46:54 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: Nost: Warbird's crash

A friend of mine made the statement, that in ten or so years, the only
warbird fighters that will still be around will be owned by Museums  or
the CAF.         Many rich amatuer pilots buy up the P-51's, and other
fighters.  Because they have more dollars than sense, they tend to crash
them in air races, or just hot doging.  Anyone else heard this
before--any comments on it?

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 16:05:32 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Terry

Hello, Bill!

Thank you for your response.

>               I think that Ike may have met Patton
>          but of the things I have read I don't know if Patton did meet
>         Ike.  For a long time Patton was with the cavarly ???

    Yes. Ike and Patton had known each other well before the advent
of WWII. Yes, Patton was one of the original officers most closely
associated with the development and employment of tanks in this
country. If anyone could have been called a "tank expert" in the pre-
war years in this country, it would have had to be General Patton.

He did know Omar bradley but I dont know who much actual
>        interaction with these two individuals Eisenhower had.

    Considerable on both counts. With Bradley perhaps more than
Patton, but Patton was a field commander, not one to be stuck behind
a desk. Bradley, by virtue of his post at SHAEF, had much more
contact with Ike than Patton. Ike had much respect for Patton in that
he knew what a first rate field officer he really was. That was why
he was most reluctant to send Patton home after that "slapping"
incident, and thank goodness, Ike was successful in resisting the
call to have Patton recalled.

  >        I do think that Eisenhower did have a choice on whether to
>        allow United States troops take berlin or let the russians.

    Not when it came to the political situation. Ike had to follow
orders the same as anyone else. What I find fault with Ike on was the
fact that he went over the heads of Combined Chiefs of Staff, General
Marshall and Roosevelt and Churchill to contact Stalin personally to
inform him of his plan to avoid taking Berlin and leaving it to the
Russians. Even if Ike had a choice, and I know that Marshall
supported Ike to the hilt, as the man on the spot, to take Berlin,
there was still nothing to indicate to Ike that our casualties would
have been any less than those of the Russians, and I think that was a
major consideration to Ike. This combined with the knowledge that
substantial parts of Berlin and those areas east of the line of
demarcation already worked out at Yalta, would have had to be handed
over to the Russians anyway, would tend to lead one to make the
decision that Berlin wouldn't be worth the time, trouble, and
casualties, if the end result was to forfeit all that commitment for
no gain at all.

    Also, Ike was also very concerned, or at least within his
headquarters, with a potential "Southern Redoubt", and even as late
as April, 1945, there were still substantial German forces located in
the south of Germany, Czechoslovalkia and Austria. These forces
simply could not be overlooked, and Ike would have been irresponsible
in his capacity as C-in-C to have done so.

    There were also fears of a partisan movement being set up under
the occupied areas and a fear of a major concentration of German
forces in the alpine areas that, had it had a basis in reality, could
have prolonged the fighting indefinitely. It is easy in hindsight to
view all this as hogwash, but I don't think at the time it was or
should have been. You must remember, the Americans were occupying a
foreign hostile country and given the circumstances, anything could
happen, and steps had to be taken to head off any potential or
unforeseen circumstance.

 >               I think Eisenhower was the best choice for the
>         overall job, just like Churchill was the best choice for
>        Britain in it;s darkest hour.

    Ike, to my mind was the only man for the terribly difficult job
he had to do. Can you imagine having to work with a man like Charles
DeGaulle and Montgomery without getting emotionally involved or at
least to maintain a professional attitude? I don't think there was
anyone of Ike's stature around who could have done this so
effectively.

 We will fight them on the beaches
>          we will (ooops sorry got carried away)
> Has anyone read "is paris burning?' an old book about the
>          liberation  of paris by the allies and de gaulle
>             taking the credit..? I find it an interesting book
>        about the Paris occcupation.

    Yes. A very fine book which I enjoyed reading very much. Did you
see the movie?

        Any thoughts?

        Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 17:23:34 -0500
From:    Peter Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Nost: Warbird's crash

In reply to Tim (not Timothy)'s message of TUE 22 MAR 1994 16:42:41 CST
>
> A friend of mine made the statement, that in ten or so years, the only
> warbird fighters that will still be around will be owned by Museums  or
> the CAF.         Many rich amatuer pilots buy up the P-51's, and other
> fighters.  Because they have more dollars than sense, they tend to crash
> them in air races, or just hot doging.  Anyone else heard this
> before--any comments on it?
>

It's a sentiment that's been expressed before.  It's the rationale for Rutan's
Pond Racer project (sadly in baskets at the moment).  The idea was to create
a competitive Unlimited Class racer that wasn't based on rare engines or
airframes.  If this could be done, it might reduce the demand for P-51's and
F8F's and spare them the rigors and occasional descruction of racing.

Rutan developed a small twin-boom plane with a pair of Nissan auto engines.
It crashed at Reno last spring and I haven't heard more.
--
Peter Smith -- Data General Corp., Westboro, MA
[email-masked] (preferred) or [email-masked]
#include <std_disclaimer.h>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 18:10:14 -0500
From:    Daniel Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Terry

I saw the movie. I can remember a delicious feeling of Eurosmart
superiority when somebody told Glen Ford (Omar Bradley?) that the
American army was 80 km from Paris. "let's see," Glen Ford replied, "that
would be about 50 miles." Yep, just about!

Dan Ford      <e-mail: [email-masked]>

              <postal: 433 Bay Road, Durham NH 03824 USA>
              <voice or fax: +1-603-868-5850>

On Wed, 23 Mar 1994, Bill Vasilion wrote:

> Has anyone read "is paris burning?' an old book about the
>          liberation  of paris by the allies and de gaulle
>             taking the credit..? I find it an interesting book
>        about the Paris occcupation.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 10:21:13 -0600
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc. (fwd)

Forwarded message:
>From [email-masked] Wed Mar 23 10:06 CST 1994
Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
Date:         Wed, 23 Mar 1994 10:04:10 -0600
Reply-To: Conflict simulation Games <[email-masked]>
Sender: Conflict simulation Games <[email-masked]>
From: mslrc
Subject:      Merlin engines, Spanish Bf109s, etc.
X-To:         [email-masked], [email-masked]
To: Multiple recipients of list CONSIM-L <[email-masked]>
In-Reply-To:  <[email-masked]> from "[email-masked]"
              a
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 822

Bob Smart,

     (As you probably are already aware) those Spanish 109s
were engined with Rolls-Royce Merlins, the engine powering
the Spit.  The Merlin-powered 109 had the best performance
of ANY of the 109s.

     Similarly, the P-51 was much improved from the A-36,
when it traded its Allison for a Merlin.  Merlins powered
both the P-51 and the Spit, but (because of its more
efficient airframe) the '51 had much better performance
and endurance.  (It has been wondered if the British
stuck with the Spit airframe out of nationalism or
defense establishment/employment characteristic.)

     Bob Granvin, Bob Smart, Con Crane, John Lundstrom, et
al:  Can you add anything to this?

     As so beautifully depicted in the film "Empire of the
Sun,"  the P-51 certainly was "The Cadillac of the Skies."

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 10:44:46 -0600
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: No Poles in Eastern Poland!  Hmmmm.

Peter Beal's remarks about Eastern Poland not being Polish,
  because of a lack of Poles would be funny, if the history
  were not so tragic.

Peter, check out the recent book edited by Keith Sword.  The
  estimates are that over 1 million Polish men, women, and
  children were transported to Soviet concentration camps in
  1940.  (And YES, the death tolls -- due to starvation,
  exposure, and murder -- DO qualify these camps to be called
  CONCENTRATION camps.)

Of these, General Anders was able to lead out (in 1942) only
  100,000, I believe.  (I don't have my thesis right in front
  of me.)

Also, re: Katyn, One of my conclusions is that it WAS -- like
  Hitler's extermination/eviction of Europe's Jews -- ENTIRELY
  SUCCESSFUL in its genocidal intent and goals.

Genocide pays off! -- tragically.

Lou Coatney, WIU

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 21 Mar 1994 23:35:13 -0500
From:    Stan Koper <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: Mistreatment German POWs?

> On Mon, 21 Mar 1994, Terry Moore wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> >
> > >   Oslo, March 21.  A German correspondent, in a recent message, spoke of the
> > > deliberate starvation of German POWs in camps near Wiesbaden (e.g. Bretzenhe
> > ).
> > > He says that, as a boy, he talked with some of the survivors.
> > >   He also mentioned orders from the Eisenhower headquarters to block from
> > > August 1944 to May 8, 1945 the access of the Red Cross to allied POW camps.
> > >   Can anyone throw any light on these claims?
> > >   Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway
> >
> >     Never heard of that, and in all my reading of Eisenhower's
> > attitudes at the end of the war, I would seriously discount that
> > story. Given the individuals and the times, it sounds like a case of
> > "sour grapes". I would like to see proof of that, and I don't think
> > there is any. It could be that given the situation at the time, and
> > the deteriorated state of the German wartime economy at the time, a
> > shipment of food, etc, may have been delayed and this may have been
> > taken as a deliberate attempt to starve POW's, but I have never seen
> > anything to support such an account, and doubt there is anything to
> > subtantiate this.
> >
> >     My two cents' worth anyway.
> >
> >     Terry
> >
> Just to add a couple of more cents to the pot.  I have to agree with
> Terry that it sounds like "sour grapes."  I have know a number of men who
> were held in German Prisoner of War camps and none of them have anything
> bad to say about their time at the camps.  In fact one man, Glen Brown,
> from Streator, Illinois, has had nothing but praise for his captors.  He
> tells stories of sharing Red Cross packages with the guards, because the
> prisoners actually had more to eat than the German soldiers when the
> packages arrived.
>
> I will agree that the prisoners went hungry, especially toward the end
> of the war, but so did their captors.
>
> C.K. Bryant

Mr. Bryant, you may be talking to different POW's.  I recall
that during the 1970's, when the survivors of the Sagan camp
(Stalag Luft VII?) wanted to have their former commandant come to
one of their reunions, persons who had spent the war
in other camps (particularly those for infantry and/or enlisted
personnel) raised a fuss.  Their point was that RHIP extended
to wartime captivity, and the experience of the EM was *very*
different from that of their officers. I can't recall the author's
name, but the novel _Prisoners of Combine D_ gives some idea of
the experience of those who were not of the officer class.

Stan Koper
[email-masked]

      This message brought to you by uqwk 1.7 and Yarn 0.58

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 24 Mar 1994 00:45:58 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Bv-141 and asymmetric plane concept

On Wed, 23 Mar 1994, Jorge Merino wrote:

> Yes, I think this movement need to be compensated in some way. Remember
> the effect on the WW-I Sopwith Camel. You had to compensate the propeller
> effect by a massive use of the rudder pedals. In normal conditions, when
> you turned the Camel to one side, it tends to raise the nose, while when
> you turned to the other side, it tends to drop. An incorrect compensation
> of this propeller effect would end in an horizontal barrel. The Camel was
> an excelent fighter anyway.

Excellent, but dangerous for unexperienced pilots. The weird handling was
not due to the propeller, but to the gyroscopic effect of the large
rotating engine --- the entire engine rotated with the propeller. It was
increased because all weight was concentrated in the front, close to the
engine.

BTW, I remember reading a story by Eric 'Winkle' Brown about testing a
late mark of Seafire (the carrier-based version of the Spitfire). These
had a very powerful R.R. Griffon engine, and as soon as he opened up the
trottle fully for take-off, the aircraft started hopping sideways,
towards the 'island' of the carrier. Brown advised that one should take
off with less than full power, and so it was done. (Later versions had
contra-rotating propellers.)

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 20:20:43 EST
From:    John Sloan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Nost: Warbird...

HI Tim,
I imagine you are right about the future of private collections of WWII
aircraft. When I was in Russia last summer visiting with the director of the
aviation museum at Monino he told me the museum staff and the yakolev design
bureau wanted to build exact replicas of the WWII Yaks for sale to anyone
interested. So there you have a chance to get WWII aircraft. Can't vouch for
how long they will hold up, however.
John Sloan

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 21:35:34 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: Barrage Balloons

I just finished watching the movie "Hope and Glory" and a question came to
mind that I'm curious about. The movie shows the use of barrage balloons in
a number of scenes. I understand the concept of barrage balloons but I'm
just curious as to how effective they really were. Were there any cases
where a balloon actually brought a plane down? How high did the balloons
actually rise? Seems to me that they would never be able to rise high enough
to be of any use except against low flying fighters. I wouldn't think they
would have any effect on high level bombing. I guess they might keep
fighters from strafing runs. Just wondering.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis              | He's the boogie-woogie |      [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.              | bugle boy of Company B.|                [email-masked]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 20:54:15 -0500
From:    Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Nost: Warbird's crash

> A friend of mine made the statement, that in ten or so years, the only
> warbird fighters that will still be around will be owned by Museums  or
> the CAF.         Many rich amatuer pilots buy up the P-51's, and other
> fighters.  Because they have more dollars than sense, they tend to crash
> them in air races, or just hot doging.  Anyone else heard this
> before--any comments on it?

You don't see them running the Daytona 500 with 1966 Dodges with 426 Hemi's
or 69 Pontiac GTOs
(which would probably blow the anemic engines of today away :-)
No one would think about taking a chance with such a classic. But a P-51
or even worse a Sea Fury or F4U (which are probably rarer than any 'classic
race car) is fair game to be wiped out in the unlimited racing.
It is a crying shame, even worse than the massive destruction of the warbirds
in the post-war years. Now we know that these are endangered birds!

Bob Smart ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 20:35:29 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: DOC: Jurgen Rohwer's Chronology?

Has anyone had a chance to review this work? I'm ready to order it from
the Naval Institute, but wanted to tap the list's brain-pool first. If
noone's seen it yet I'll take the plunge and post a review when I can.

Larry J

[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 22 Mar 1994 to 23 Mar 1994
*************************************************