Subject: WWII-L Digest - 14 Mar 1994 to 15 Mar 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 00:01:20 -0500

There are 77 messages totalling 2208 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WANT:  Video of 'A Piece of Cake'
  2. INF: USAAF 15 MAR 44
  3. GEN:  Applause Please!
  4. VMI Alumni
  5. <No subject given>
  6. QUEST: Herbert A. Werner (2)
  7. Von Paulus: General or Field Marshall?
  8. Military disrespect OR Academic freedom
  9. MEDIA: "Rosey The Riveter"
 10. ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on 18 March. (5)
 11. Unsubbing
 12. MOvie
 13. HOME: Re: Rosey The Riveter
 14. Jesse Carnes is bye bye
 15. Addr: Movies (3)
 16. Meeting of Former WWII-L List members (2)
 17. Addr: Bombing of Coventry (2)
 18. thanks
 19. I hate to see the list go
 20. Re[2]: ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on 18 March. (2)
 21. Alsace/Colmar Campaign (4)
 22. GEN:Re: Removing swastikas
 23. WWI in film
 24. harold russell
 25. Unit History or other info VB-16 or VB-23 1943
 26. Vote against war
 27. Thanks from these shores too
 28. movies
 29. QUEST: Explain USA Officer Ranks
 30. Addr: ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on March 18 (2)
 31. Unsubscribe WWII-L (Bye Folks)
 32. This list needs a new owner! (4)
 33. Re[2]: Bombing Of Coventry, UK's Response
 34. Wildcats v. Zeros (2)
 35. A digital barrel roll in your honor!
 36. PG. wodehouse
 37. Thanks
 38. TRV:Games
 39. WWII on WWW? (3)
 40. UTAH Beach (4)
 41. To Terry Moore
 42. Re[3]: U-Boats In USA Waters?? (2)
 43. Need Book Info!
 44. List
 45. WWII on World Wide Web?
 46. WANT:  Book:  The Great Book of World War II Airplanes
 47. Movies
 48. Weap:Informations
 49. Richard O'Kane, RIP
 50. ADMIN: List Closing
 51. Re[2]: This list needs a new owner!
 52. WWII on WWW addition
 53. FDR: Did He Know He Won Before Dying?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:31:53 AST
From:    Joanne Brown <[email-masked]>
Subject: WANT:  Video of 'A Piece of Cake'

I've been looking for a couple of years for a videotaped copy of the
PBS Masterpiece miniseries of 'A piece of cake', the dramatization of
Derek Robertson's novel which deals with an RAF squadron during the
'Phoney War' and subsequently the Battle of Britain.  Has anybody
seen a copy of this around, or would they be willing to loan me any
copy they might have?

Please reply to me personally, not to the list.

Thanks in advance,

Joanne Brown

                   Joanne Brown, Reference Department
Bibliotheque Ward Chipman Library         E-Mail     [email-masked]
University of New Brunswick               Tel (506)  648-5710
Saint John, N.B. Canada                   Fax (506)  648- 5701

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 07:30:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 15 MAR 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 15 MARCH 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-24, Douglas Dauntless
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  Beaufighter, Bristol (RAF)
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  Wellington, Vickers (RAF)

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 31 B-24s and 20+ Royal Air Force
(RAF) Wellingtons and Beaufighters pound supply dumps and targets of
opportunity in the Rangoon area while 8 other B-24s hit barracks near
Bangkok, Thailand; numerous US and RAF medium and fighter-bombers attack
villages, Japanese positions, ammunition dumps, tanks, and many other targets
of opportunity in the Chin Hills, at Chindwin, in the Mogaung Valley, and in
areas around Mandalay.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 259: 185 of 187 B-17s and
145 of 157 B-24s hit the industrial area at Brunswick, Germany and targets of
opportunity; they claim 0-0-1 Luftwaffe aircraft; 1 B-17 and 2 B-24s are a
lost and 31 B-17s and 15 B-24s are damaged; casualties are 1 KIA, 4 WIA and
30 MIA. Escort is provided by 121 P-38s and 467 Eighth and Ninth Air Force
P-47s; 4 P-38s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 4 pilots MIA; P-47s
claim 39-3-13 Luftwaffe aircraft in the air and 1-0-0 on the ground, 1 P-47 is
lost and 5 damaged, casualties are 1 MIA.
  Mission 260: 8 P-47s are dispatched, 2 with 2x1,000 pound (454 kg) bombs,
against an enemy barge in the Zuider Zee, The Netherlands to test the
feasibility of this type of operation; near misses are scored.
  Mission 261: 7 of 7 B-17s drop 350 bundles of leaflets on Rennes, Lille,
Reims, Le Mans, Paris and Chartres, France at 2115-2152 hours without loss.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): A directive states that the Ninth
Air Force is released from first priority commitment to assist the Eighth Air
Force. P-51s of the Ninth Air Force, committed to the Allied Expeditionary
Air Force (AEAF), will continue to escort heavy bombers when required by the
Eighth Air Force. Ninth Air Force Advanced HQ assumes the function of target
selection and mission planning for the IX Bomber Command. AEAF HQ has the
authority to indicate percentage of effect to be expended on each type of
target on a long-term basis.
  In France, 118 B-26s attack marshalling yards at Aulnoye and Haine-Saint-
Pierre and Chievres Airfield; during the afternoon, 10 B-26s using "Oboe" to
test its accuracy, bomb Coxyde Airfield with poor results; dive-bombing
missions using fighters begin with a 7-plane attack on Saint-Valery-en-Caux
Airfield.
  HQ 368th Fighter Group and 395th, 396th and 397th Fighter Squadrons move
from Greenham Common to Chilbolton, England with P-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Italy, 300+ B-24s and B-17s
bomb Cassino, the area S of Cassino and areas near Venafro in support of the
US Fifth Army; 250+ other heavy bombers return to base without bombing
because of complete cloud cover of their target areas; extensive fighter
cover over the Cassino area is provided by P-38s, and P-47s fly 2 sweeps over
the Viterbo-Canino area; there is no fighter opposition.
  Arrivals in Italy from the US: 773d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 463d
Bombardment Group (Heavy), at Celone Airfield, Italy with B-17s (first
mission is 30 Mar); 780th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 465th Bombardment
Group (Heavy), at Pantanella Airfield with B-24s (first mission is 5 May).

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium and fighter-
bombers, together with Mediterranean Allied Strategic Air Force (MASAF) heavy
bombers and other aircraft of the Mediterranean Allied Tactical Air Force
(MATAF) in the greatest air effort yet made in the MTO, rain bombs upon
enemy concentrations in Cassino and surrounding areas as the New Zealand
Corps begins the third battle of Cassino; light and medium bombers also hit a
command post E of Ceprano and the town of San Benedetto de Marsi; fighters
on patrol and a sweep over Anzio, Cassino and Rome meet no air opposition.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-24s from Kwajalein Atoll fly
the first Seventh Air Force mission against Truk Atoll, Caroline Islands,
hitting Dublon and Eten Islands before dawn; alternate targets of Oroluk
Anchorage and Ponape Town are also hit. B-25s from Tarawa Atoll hit Maloelap
Atoll. By this date the A-24s, P-39s, and P-40s used against Mille and Jaluit
Atolls during Operations FLINTLOCK (operations against Kwajalein and Majuro
Atolls) and CATCHPOLE (operations against Eniwetok and Ujelang Atolls) have
returned to Oahu, Territory of Hawaii for rest and re-equipment.
  27th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 30th Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves
from Nanumea Island to Kwajalein Atoll with B-24s; they have been operating
from Abemama Island since 26 Feb.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): Major General Hubert R
Harmon, Commanding General Thirteenth Air Force, becomes Commander Air
Solomons (COMAIRSOLS).
  On New Britain Island, 50+ B-25s, P-40s, P-39s and P-38s and US Navy (USN)
fighters pound Wunapope supply areas; 24 B-25s, with USN fighter escort, bomb
Lakunai Airfield; 22 unescorted B-24s, finding Tobera clouded over, bomb the
airfield at Rapopo as a secondary target.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 200+ B-24s,
B-25s, A-20s, P-38s, P-47s and P-40s pound Wewak township, blasting docks,
warehouses, gun positions, and numerous other targets; fighters claim 11
enemy aircraft shot down. 36 B-25s bomb Tingo village and Lugos Mission area
on Manus Island, where elements of the 1st Cavalry Division make an
amphibious landing, take the mission and head E toward Lorengau.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:27:29 AST
From:    Joanne Brown <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN:  Applause Please!

Larry and Kim

My humble thanks to both of you for the hard work you've done with
this list, and let it not be left unsaid that the sacrifices you've
made were not appreciated.

In the time I've participated in WWII-L I've learned a lot,
but mostly I, like many others I'm sure have made contacts and in
some instances, new friends who share their interest/passion in
WWII.

Best wishes in any future endeavours you may undertake and
please feel free to call on me if I can ever be of assistance to you.

Sincerely,

Joanne M. Brown

                   Joanne Brown, Reference Department
Bibliotheque Ward Chipman Library         E-Mail     [email-masked]
University of New Brunswick               Tel (506)  648-5710
Saint John, N.B. Canada                   Fax (506)  648- 5701

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 06:24:55 -0500
From:    Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: VMI Alumni

>      Is anybody on this list either an alumnus of the Virginia Military
>      Institutue or know anybody who is? I am also curious if anybody knows
>      any VMI Alumni who served in WWII?
>
>      Scott Jones
>      [email-masked]
 I knew a VMI alumnus who served in WW2. It was a neighbor of my Grandparents
and a friend of theirs. Don't know many details though. I know a fair bit about
the Institute so I am wondering where the rather vague inquiry is coming from.
Of course you know that the most famous alumnus was Marshall. The 29th Division
was also heavy in VMI folks ( Being the National Guard division from Maryland &
Virginia)

Bob Smart ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 00:35:42 -0700
From:    John Hollenhorst <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

Please send me information about your service and how it works. I am a
reporter for a Salt Lake City TV station, and I'm preparing for D-Day
activities including a trip to Normandy.
  I have two immediate questions:
1. How did Utah Beach get named, and is anyone still alive who played a
major role in naming it?
2. Are there any veterans of D-Day who live in The State of Utah who will
be at Normandy for the 50th anniversary?

Thanks for any help.

John Hollenhorst
Chief Reporter
KSL-TV
Salt Lake City, UT
(801)575-5522
E-Mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 Mar 1994 23:50:13 -0400
From:    John Peterson <[email-masked]>
Subject: QUEST: Herbert A. Werner

Folks:

I am looking for info regarding Capt. Herbert A. Werner.  He was a former
U-boat commander, and moved to the US in 1957 and became a citizen.  The
U-953 was his last command.  He is the author of "Iron Coffins."  I believe
he also taught for a time at the U. of Maryland.  Is he still alive?  And
what did he do after his teaching?  Any info would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

John Peterson
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 Mar 1994 23:38:19 -0500
From:    Stan Koper <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Von Paulus: General or Field Marshall?

> Terry, you pointed out that Stalingrad prisoners were held for 13 years.
> This lead me back to a short speech I was asked to give last week
> regarding treatment of PW's in German camps; of course you can find much
> documentation on that, and (although considerably less) on German PW's in
> America, but what I've not stumbled upon is documentation regarding German
> PW's in Russian hands.  Suggestions?
>
> Andy Charrier
> Lakeville High School
>

You might find some information from memoirs, but I would
suggest looking at the works of novelist Theodor Plevier (sp?),
who wrote _Stalingrad_ _Moscow_, and _Berlin_, among other works.
He touches on the lives of individuals who were captured and
later returned to Germany.  I think Berlin carries up to the
riots of the 1950's.

Stan Koper
[email-masked]

      This message brought to you by uqwk 1.7 and Yarn 0.58

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 Mar 1994 23:41:27 -0500
From:    Stan Koper <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Military disrespect OR Academic freedom

> WAIT a minute, Chuck!  You mean an Academy faculty member who
>   is a serving officer shouldn't be allowed to criticize our
>   (current) amoral/idiot President?
>
> What about academic freedom?
>

It's not a question of academic freedom when the speaker is a
serving officer.  The commander-in-chief is the
commander-in-chief, whatever else you may think of him, as a
civilian.

> What about (the increasing number of) civilian members of
>   academy faculties?  Because their paychecks are U.S. tax
>   dollars, would you deny their academic freedom also?

Presumably, they would have the right to criticize the President
publicly.  They are civilians, not serving members of the
military.

>
> Should faculty in state institutions be prohibited from
>   criticizing their state governments' decisions and policies,
>   in class or public?
>
> (ad absurdum ... )

It's not an ad absurdum situation.  Don't confuse military
officers with civilians.  There *IS* a difference, and one of
them is obedience to the chain of command.

>
> Or is it just leftwing/PC presidents, etc., who shouldn't be
>   criticized?

>  Lou Coatney

This is supposed to be WW-II, not politics or current events.

Stan Koper
[email-masked]

      This message brought to you by uqwk 1.7 and Yarn 0.58

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 Mar 1994 23:33:04 -0500
From:    Stan Koper <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: "Rosey The Riveter"

> Chuck,
>
> >This post concerns the Home Front. As a junior high school child, I distinctly
> >recall our history teacher (a male, BTW) showing us a war film called "Rosey Th
> e
> >Riveter." (or something like that).
>
>
>         I definitely remember "Rosey The Riveter" from about 1981-82 time period
> .
> I didn't see the movie, but remember my girlfriend going to see it at the theatr
> e
> here at uni. I'll see if I can dig up something about it, from my movie guide.
>
>
> Wilber
>

Are you sure you aren't thinking of a commercial film called
"Swing Shift", with Goldie Hawn?

Stan Koper
[email-masked]

      This message brought to you by uqwk 1.7 and Yarn 0.58

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:14:34 EST
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on 18 March.

On Mon, 14 Mar 1994 16:36:54 EST Larry & Kim Jewell said:
>This list will be closed as of 18 March. After that date there will be no
>WWII-L. I will store a copy of the membership list on the 17th. This list
>will be forwarded to H-Net to be used to notify you of the formation of
>the new H-WWII (or whatever they choose to call it) when and if it's formed
>during summer/fall.
>
>Thanks to everyone for an interesting couple of years and keep the candles
>lit until the light come back on, on Broadway.

Well, I have only been on the list a few months, but look forward to the daily
mail (even if it has been running too high for me to keep track of in recent
weeks!).  To the listowner, my heartiest thanks for a job well-done and a
list well-moderated!  May the hiatus be short (-:

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:18:35 -0500
From:    Daniel Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Unsubbing

Gee, I thought it was getting interesting!

Anyone having difficulty unsubbing may be in a situation like mine, where
the local computer does not have a link to Bitnet. In that case one must
sent the listserv command through a gateway. There may be more than one
gateway, but the address that works for me is: [email-masked]

Regards -

Dan Ford      <e-mail: [email-masked]>

              <postal: 433 Bay Road, Durham NH 03824 USA>
              <voice or fax: +1-603-868-5850>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:31:47 EST
From:    Bill Vasilion <[email-masked]>
Subject: MOvie

         Hi ..I remember the movie.... IT was an excellent movie.....
        I remember where the german crew mingled with a amish community
        It was an excellent movie....very grim in spots but very well
        done.......... whether it is true or not I dont know.....

                        bill

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:43:23 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HOME: Re: Rosey The Riveter

Sidney Allinson writes:
|-> It is interesting that the democracies like the US, Canada, and Britain
|-> as well as the Soviet Union, employed very large numbers of women in
|-> munitions production, yet Nazi Germany did not.
|-> Adolph Hitler had some kind of fixed idea that womenfolk should be
|-> kept in cooking and childbirth activities, even during a world war.
|-> It was only after AH's declaration of waging "total war", in early 1943,
|-> that German females began to be employed in war industries.  Mind you,
|-> all along germany had no inhibitions against importing millions of
|-> foreign women as virtual slave-laborers in munitions plants.

        Several historians have pointed out Hitler's reluctance to go
to a full war footing. They have speculated that it involved a fear
that the German people would not accept it. He apparently thought that
the women would not like giving up luxories such as makeup and silk
clothing.
        Curiously, the U.S. supposedly went the opposite way.
President Roosevelt and his advisors decided to begin rationing well
before it was necessary. They wanted to involve the U.S. people in
the war effort, thinking I assume that it would be good psychologically.

                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 07:40:13 CST
From:    jesse carnes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Jesse Carnes is bye bye

Hey guys ;

Sorry to hear 'bout the end of the list.
World War 2 is one of my REAL hot buttons.
Especially the Eighth Air Force, B-17s, and so forth.

Anyone who wishes to correspond with the piano man here can reach me at

[email-masked]

Still hope to find out bout my lost uncle Ben, the fighter pilot.

Well ... keep 'em flyin' boys!!
The alarm klaxon has sounded and it is time to bale.

Jesse Carnes
[email-masked]
BatonRouge, LA

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:50:11 EDT
From:    RICHARD KING <[email-masked]>
Subject: Addr: Movies

THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES was indeed a great film. I watched
it on video after members of this list recommended it last
year. Does anyone know what happened to the career of the young sailor
who had lost his arms? In an episode of the television series
CHINA BEACH the nurse returned home to visit her family, and her
uncle appeared in the episode. He has lost his arms at Anzio, but
there was a very strong resemblance to the sailor from BEST YEARS.
Anyone know if the same actor played both characters? His name
is Harold Russell, and to quote from a review, "...Russell, a
young man who had lost both hands during the war when a
defective fuse exploded while in his grasp. Russell had never
acted before, except in a brief training film made by the War
Department where he demonstrated his mastery of the
prosthetic hooks he used in place of hands. Goldwyn and (director
William) Wyler were both amazed by Russell's ability, and Wyler
went on record to say that Russell was the best natural actor
he had ever tested." Russell won an Academy Award for his
portrayal. I think I will pursue this and see if I can find out
if Russell eventually  appeared on the CHINA BEACH episode, and
what happened to this fine actor's career. Any ideas?
*************************************************************
Richard L. King, Reference Librarian, Vincennes (IN) University
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:00:44 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Meeting of Former WWII-L List members

As far as I am concerned, the get together of WW-IIL members is still
on, even if WW-IIL isn't.  Anyone interested in attending please e-mail
mail and I will keep you informed of any developments.  Everything is
still a GO as far as I know, and the information I sent out hasn't
changed.

If anyone is trying to get in touch with me via snail mail, I just
purchased a house, which I will be moving into on 13 April.  My new
address is 904 East Washington Street, Kirksville, MO 63501.  Phone
should stay the same.

I believe I was on the list fairly early, and I want to thank Larry for
what he has been doing.  I've made numerous contacts that I never would
have made any other way.  Those of note are Rob G., Sid, Akira, Arnaud
(who left about a year and a half ago), and many others.  Jack McCollup
must feel like he is fighting WWII all over again with his USAAF
postings.  For Larry, as editor of the 11th Panzer Divison (WWIIHRS)
newletter, I know what thanksless job this can be, and I only do it once
a month.  I hope you recover, and maybe we'll see you at Jefferson
Barracks!

As for me, I'll be here waiting for the new list to form, and of course,
I'll be fighting WWII for the rest of my life.  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:04:56 EDT
From:    RICHARD KING <[email-masked]>
Subject: Addr: Bombing of Coventry

A quote from LIBRARY LITERATURE (1940-42), which is an index
for library publications: "The bombing of Coventry was so terrible
that a new word, 'Coventrated' has been added to the vocabulary of
war-time England. It means concentrated destruction by aerial attack.
In this attack on Coventry, 150,000 volumes were lost, comprising
the whole of its famous technical collection...."
****************************************************************
Richard L. King, Reference Librarian, Vincennes (IN) Univ.
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 15:13:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: thanks

Larry,
      thanks for all.
Peter de Lange.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:26:22 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: I hate to see the list go

I also hate to see the list go. Though I have not been an active
participant to any degree I've enjoyed reading the posts very much. I
would also like to mention that the effort to create a WW II Usenet
newsgroup is moving forward and will be coming to a vote soon. I am not an
academician (probably even spelled that wrong) but I do enjoy reading and
talking about "The Good War" and hope that we can pick the conversation up
again real soon in Usenet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                                          [email-masked]
Raleigh, N.C.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:33:18 EST
From:    S214000 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on 18 March.

Hello Everyone,
I've been on the list for about 2 years and have enjoyed reading the
material that has come across my screen. I'm sorry to see this list pass
into history.
To Larry and Kim, thank you for the monster job of making this list an
excellent forum. Good luck in the future and may you have Fair winds and
following seas.
Mike Wilson<[email-masked]>
History Major
Northern Michigan University

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:31:00 EST
From:    Don Bowden <[email-masked]>
Subject: Alsace/Colmar Campaign

        Upon the suggestions from several list members I have been reading
the official history "Riviera to the Rhine". This is apparently the last
"Green Book" to be published. Actually it is quite amazing that it took until
1991 for this part of WWII to be documented officially. One nice aspect of it
is that ready access to German sources makes for an interesting two sided
view to the battles. Several things have struck me the last couple of days:
meaning I had known them before:
1. The famous Nisei 442nd was involved in the campaign in Southern France and
on North-- I had always heard of them being in Italy. I didn't realize they
were then shipped to France. It appears that by Dec. 1944 the unit was prac-
tically annihilated by casualties, illness etc.
2. General William (?) Frederick, the oraganizer/commander of the "Devil's
Brigade" was a divisional commander in the 7th Army Group. He seems to have
been a truly remarkable character-- Does anyone know of other books which
might have information about him?
3. Finally the most interesting aspect to me has been the discussion in this
book of Eisenhower's almost total disinterest in the 7th Army Group. In Nov.
1944 while all of the other Armys were grinding to a halt, the 6th Army more or
less blew through the German 15th Army in Alsace to capture Strasbourg. It seems
and excellent example of infantry opening the front and letting the armor role
through and exploint. The American command was ready to cross the Rhine and
begin to exploit there successes. They were even running patrols across the
Rhine, finding German defenses unmanned. Eisenhower forbade them and told them
to support Patton instead on the west bank of the Rhine (who at the time was
getting nowhere). One can envision if Devers and Patch were supported that they
could have made a Rhine crossing in Nov./early Dec. 1944 and started roling up
the east bank of the Rhine. If nothing else this seems likely to have made
the Germans commit their reserves which they were building up for the Ardennes
offensive-- ergo no Battle of the Bulge, no 75,000 US casualties. Does anyone
know of any other discussions of these strategic decisions. I found all this
fascinating and new.

Note to Aldo Hubert; if you are going to Aix you might want to read Riviera
to the Rhine. There are also two books about the invasion of Southern France,
one is called the Champagne Campaign, the other is a French book about the
same campaign. My wife has tolerated going to battlefields because the
countryside is beautiful.

It is sad to see this list end. I am a recent subscriber and have found it a
great source for reading material, references and suggestions. I have just
deleted the recented ideological discussions- I don't have the time to read
all that stuff anyway.
Don Bowden
Winston-Salem, NC

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:36:26 -0500
From:    "Sidney W. Kitchel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN:Re: Removing swastikas

Sidney Allinson writes:

|-> The only books I ever heard of being banned in Britain then were of
|-> a British humorist, stragely enough.  P.H. Wodehouse ("Jeeves", etc.)

        You are referring to Pelham Grenville Wodehouse, "Plum" to his
friends. A person considered by Hilaire Belloc, I think it was, the
greatest writer of English in this Century. Our British friends would
now likely refer to him as Sir Pelham, since he made the Honors List
shortly before his death. Of course, Americans would refer to our
fellow citizen as P.G. Wodehouse or Plum.

|-> stayed on in France after Dunkirk, and foolishly made three radio
|-> broadcasts from Berlin to Britain. He actually thought there'd be no
|-> harm in telling the folks back home how respectfully he was being
|-> treated by the Nazis.

        Well, that is not exactly what he did. He made some radio
broadcasts not so much "for" the Germans, but "against" them under
their noses.

|->                      Innocuous enough, but it drove people in the
|-> UK wild. Having your old mum bombed every night and on near-starvation
|-> food rationing didn't quite jibe with comfortable stories from well-
|-> fed collaborationists.

        I cannot speak for the British public. However, Wodehouse was
not being coddled by the Nazis. The reaction of the U.S. Army Signal
Corps was to use Wodehouse's broadcasts as a model of how to get at
your enemy on his own radio set. As an example, Plum broadcast that
German treatment was just like being in Broadmoor, a well-known insame
asylum.

|->                         There was a good deal of resentment, at the
|-> individual and local level, and poor old Wodehouse's books were banned
|-> from the shelves of many local libraries.  Later on, PGW's books
|-> gradually came back onto the shelves, though.
|-> PS: Wodehouse was investigated after the Liberation, but no action
|-> against him was deemed necessary.

        ...especially since he had become a U.S. citizen. Some say he did
so in reaction to the British public's reactions. Plum first came to
America in 1909. He immediately fell in love with New York City. A
couple of years later he gave up being a junior bank clerk in London
and moved permanently to New York City. He remained a British subject
until the late 40s. So he may well have changed citizenship because of
the WWII personal events.

|->                                   However, he never set foot in Britain
|-> again (the land he loved), and he died at 93 in upper-state New York.

        Plum died a fairly rich man having sold an amazing number of
books and had an estate on Long Island. In another WWII matter, he is
credited with the capture of at least one German spy. The unfortunate
fellow parachuted into England dressed in morning coat and spats a la
a Wodehouse character. The spy was walking along a country road trying
to get to London when he came under suspicion by the local
authorities. One can just imagine a Wodehouse constable reaching out
the firm hand of the law on the unfortunate's shoulder and saying:
"Errr...What's all this then and where may you be a goin'."

                                                        --Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel           [email-masked], [email-masked]
Data Parallel Systems, Inc.  ============||  DPSI  ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive                             (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana,  47408  USA               FAX:  (812) 334-8121

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:46:28 EST
From:    claire culleton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWI in film

Is there a WWI list anywhere? Please respond privately.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 10:09:11 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on 18 March.

Larry and friends,

        Thanks for two years of a quality mailing list.  I echo Steve Vest's
sentiments.  It's a shame that some neophytes who obviously never cracked open
a book and political hacks who confused this list with soc.history joined to
wreck it in such a short amount of time.  My thanks to Akira Takiguchi, Jack
McKillop, Bill Huber, Emmanuel Gustin, Bill Thacker, Robert Gravin, Terry Moore,
Dennis Sparks, John Ausland, Lee Short, Sidney Kitchel, Tim Scherrer, Bill
"Rustbelt" Divens, Sidney Kitchel, Rich Kaplan, Lydia Fish, Mick Fauchon,
Scott Hannon, M. A. Ramsey, and all of the other old-timers whom I may have
missed for such scholarly and fun discussions.  I hope Jack continues his
50 Years Ago USAAF series, perhaps in sci.military.

        I may start a list with a closed membership because I hate to think
that such a good mechanism for discussion should go quietly into the night.
Please send me email if interested.  Please have "NEW LIST" in caps in the
subject line so I can filter it accordingly.

        Again, my thanks to Larry and Kim and all the rational people on
the mailing list.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
If stupidity makes one evil, I fear for the souls of mankind.
(I know it's not from "Kelly's Heroes" but it seemed appropriate!)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 10:20:28 EST
From:    Bill Vasilion <[email-masked]>
Subject: harold russell

             I believe what I read when the series came out is that
         harold was divorced and remarried... He was working with the vets
         I thought in the San fRancisco area........Yes that was him on
         China beach ................

                bill

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:25:26 CST
From:    Benjamin H Schapiro <[email-masked]>
Subject: Unit History or other info VB-16 or VB-23 1943

To resolve a long standing family mystery I am seeking information on squadrons
VB-16, VS-16 and VB-23. Based on my uncle's flight log it seems VB-16 became
VS-16 and then became VB-23. This surmise is based on the signatures of the
C.O.s signing off on his monthly flight records. I am fairly positive that VB-23
was assigned to the Lexington (CVA 16) but why it was not designated VB-16 to
coincide with the carrier's VF and VT squadrons (VT-16 and VF-16)is just one
of the questions to be resolved.

  Some of the officers associated with VB-23:
Lt. R.E.Riera, Commanding
Lt(jg)  J.W. Milam jr. USNR, executive officer?
Lt(jg) Cook Cleland USNR, Flight leader and reportedly pilot for the first
Lexington airman to shoot down a japanese aircraft
Ens. A.C. Hall USNR
Ens. Parks USNR

  Before joining the Lexington for her shakedown cruise the squadron was
stationed at Quonset Point R.I. and this training period (Dec. 1942 - May
1943) is of particular interest.

    I have found references to the squardon in Edward Stiechen's (sp) photo book
"Blue Ghost" c1947, including the comment about Lt. Cleland.

  Any information or suggestions of additional sources is greatly appreciated.
Unit histories or the Lexington Airgroup history references are my immediate
objectives. I have only just started on this and have not had a chance to check
the obvious sources, ie Morrison et al.. Any leads as to the appropriate
departments of the U.S. Navy or the Naval Aviation Historical Center are
also welcome.

    I am sorry to see that this list will soon close down ,as I had hoped to
find a forum that would support the discussion of Naval Aviation at a level
above what is currently available on other lists.

Ben Schapiro,
NOTIS Systems, Inc.                     [email-masked]
708-866-0187

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 10:25:29 -0500
From:    Max Calderwood <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Vote against war

Margaret Chase Smith entered politics immediately after WW2 and spent
her career being generally supportive of the military.  She is not the
woman who voted against entry into WW2.

Max C. Calderwood
University of Southern Maine
Gorham, ME
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 15:13:03 GMT
From:    Johannes van Vuren <[email-masked]>
Subject: Thanks from these shores too

I havent been on this list long, but have learnt so much in so short a time.
Thanks to Larry for making it all possible. Well done.

To listers who ever visit England, give me a ring. Would like to meet you
for a beer and a chat. And show you around the wonderful bookshops of
London. Vast collections of WW2, WW1 books.

Johannes van Vuren,
Canterbury, England.

Tel 0227-463262.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 Mar 1994 16:41:10 -0500
From:    Stan Koper <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: movies

>           One movie that will stick in my mind was I believe the
>         William Wyler film, where Fredrick March, Dana Andrews
>         and Harold Russell are flying back home in the same army airforce
>         plane to the same town.
>          Fredrick March comes home and the children see him..but
>         he tells them to be quiet as myrna loy ask's who is at the door.
>         See finally comes to the hallway and sees her husband back
>          from the war...........it was an excellent movie........
>
>                               bill

Sure!  William Wyler's "The Best Years of Our Lives", a great
ambiguous title for a great unambiguous movie.  It suggests some
of the social dislocation that WW II created.  Dana Andrews,
you may recall, had been a "soda jerk" before the war, and rose
to the rank of captain.  He tells his old boss to "take this job
and..."  He also has problems with his wife, who has been living
well in his absence, and I believe divorces her.  I seem to
recall a romance with Frederic March's daughter.

Harold Russell, playing a sailor, was in real-life a soldier
wounded in a training accident, losing both his hands.  I
believe Mr. Russell currently resides in New England, and runs a
consulting company specializing in improving employment
acessibility for persons with disabilities.

Frederick March's banker becomes more sympathetic as a result of
his experiences in the war, working with and depending on
people from different "walks of life".  I believe he winds up
loaning money to someone (maybe Dana Andrews) to start a
business without any collateral beyond a handshake and a
promise.

Myrna Loy, as March's wife, has a different slant as well,
having to run a household by herself while her husband was in
the service.  I think he has some adjustment to make to that,
but to the credit of the screenwriters and director, doesn't
require his wife to return to some pre-war "pedestal".

I believe it picked up an Academy Award (?best picture) or two,
but didn't do well at the box office.  By then (1946), people
wanted to move beyond the war.

Stan Koper
[email-masked]
plus  a change, plus c'est la m me chose
     This message brought to you by uqwk and Yarn 0.58

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 11:13:07 -0500
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Alsace/Colmar Campaign

Don writes:
> ... I have been reading the official history "Riviera to the Rhine". This
> is apparently the last "Green Book" to be published. Actually it is quite
> amazing that it took until 1991 for this part of WWII to be documented
> officially.

Yes...I wonder just what the hold-up was. Perhaps the complexity of the
operation (both military and political)...the joint operations with the
French...and the embarassing bits showing US Army leaders apparently not
always quite with it.

> 3. Finally the most interesting aspect to me has been the discussion in
> this book of Eisenhower's almost total disinterest in the [6th] Army
> Group.

6th AG [Devers] = US 7th Army [Patch] (XV and VI Corps) + French 1st Army
[de Lattre] (I and II Corps)

> In Nov. 1944 while all of the other Armys were grinding to a halt,
> the 6th Army [Group] more or less blew through the German 15th Army in
> Alsace to capture Strasbourg.  ... [US 7th Army] was ready to cross the
> Rhine and begin to exploit there successes. ...

It wasn't until the first days of December that the US [3 ID] finally
moved into Strasbourg area to mop up and relived the French.

> Eisenhower forbade them [to assault across the Rhine] and told them to
> support Patton [US 3rd Army] instead on the west bank of the Rhine ...

In the case of the 3 ID sitting in Strasbourg, this support consisted of
trying to fool the Germans into thinking an assault was imminent.

> One can envision if Devers and Patch were supported that they could have
> made a Rhine crossing in Nov./early Dec. 1944 and started roling up
> the east bank of the Rhine. If nothing else this seems likely to have
> made the Germans commit their reserves which they were building up for
> the Ardennes offensive ...

An early December crossing might have been possible, but at the time 6th
AG was more worried about mopping up, consolidating, and expanding the
territory won during November. French 1st Army was fully occuped trying
to reduce the Colmar Pocket (unsuccessfully), while most of US 7th Army
was busy driving to the German border/Westwall. A drive across the Rhine
river at Strsbourg would have had to worry about unsecure flanks on both
the north and south. I suspect the Germans would have responded to a
crossing by cancelling the Ardennes attack and instead attacking in
Alsace....perhaps a drive southward from the Sarrbrucken area to link up
with the Colmar Pocket. Such a move if successful would have bagged all
of US 7th Army and most of French 1st Army...could have been a disaster.

The Ardennes attack came Dec 16, at which time a Rhine crossing might
have made sense, but was now impossible as the crisis to the north
required US 7th Army stretch its frontage westward to free up some of
Patton's troop to deal with the Germans in the Ardennes.

But I do agree with Don that not exploiting the success of 6th Army Group
in late November/early December was perhaps a mistake. 7th Army was in a
better position to drive into Germany than Patton's! There is some
speculation that Eisenhower just plain did not trust/like Devers...he was
certainly treated like the black sheep of the family. The US chose the
direct frontal assault to clear the Sarre area with Patton rather than
skirt east with 7th Army and pocket the Germans there. The US was still
heavily engaged in the Sarre area in March 1945!

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Tue Mar 15 1994 ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:46:38 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: QUEST: Explain USA Officer Ranks

Carrying a pistol in combat marked the bearer for death from snipers,
as a sidearm usually indicates an officer.
Because of this, officers in the British army eventually caught on to
the wisdom of carrying a rifle during attacks.  For the same reason,
officers stopped wearing distinctive riding-britches or trench-coats.
It was dangerous enough being ajunior officer in the trenches, without
carrying a pistol to mark one for snipers -- a Second Lieutenant in
WW One trenches had a life expectancy of six weeks.
The same lesson had to be learned in WW2, anad wiser officers began
carying a rifle in combat, to look less like an officer to the enemy.
This was a particular problem for Americans, incidentally, as sidearms
were often carried by NCOs as well as officers.
'FRiend of mine a Canadian who served as a US army officer in VietNam
told me a related story.  Whenever you saw an American in Nam carrying
either a Browning pistol or a Swedish K submachinegun, you knew he was
really CIA.  The agency preferred those two makes of weapon. Wasn't
long before the Cong figured that out, too. 'Made it handy for VC
assassins...

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 11:46:43 EDT
From:    RICHARD KING <[email-masked]>
Subject: Addr: ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on March 18

I just saw the posting about the closing of this excellent list
(probably the best I've ever been on or seen anywhere). I regret
this tremendously, and feel the list manager has done an
outstanding job of moderating. I totally disagree that this list
has gone downhill lately. Sure, there are some flame wars and
some rather unusual and even wacko opinions being bandied about,
but so what? This is what life is all about, and we should be able
to take it. Those of us who teach school deal with this every day
of our lives, and we have to learn to be professional about it
and not overreact. It is not easy, but it is reality.
     I may have missed something, but can I ask why the list
is closing?
     Also, what will be done with the archives? Will they still
be searchable at the same location?
     I'm sorry if these question have already been answered. I
lost some of my mail (about the only time this EVER happened)
for yesterday and a couple of days ago, so this closing is news
to me. Sad news...
******************************************************************
Richard L. King, Reference Librarian, Vincennes (IN) Univ.
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:01:00 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe WWII-L (Bye Folks)

Thanks for your thoughtful post, Joe.
'Echoes some of my own opinions.
Regards.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 11:52:42 EST
From:    Jim Gerland - Network User Support <[email-masked]>
Subject: This list needs a new owner!

Dear list members,

   I would like to ask this list if there is someone who would be willing
   to be the "Owner" of this list.  We could also have one or two
   Assiatant Owners.

   The List Owner is responsible for maintaining subscriptions on the list.
   This means removing subscribers when their mail bounces and answering
   subscriber's queries when they are having difficulty sending mail to or
   getting mail from the list.

   This can take anywhere from a few minutes a day to a few hours a week
   depending on the size of your list and the number of world-wide (poorly
   connected) subscribers.

   Knowledge of LISTSERV is desirable but not absolutely necessary.  I
   have developed a number of documents about being a List Owner.  If
   you're interested in them send the following command in a mail message
   to [email-masked] :

   review lsvowner

   and then 'get' the documents you're interested in from the filelist
   that LISTSERV sends back to you.

   Unless I find a new list owner soon I will have to seriously think
   about terminating this list.

   Thanks,
          Jim...

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 10:58:38 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Bombing Of Coventry, UK's Response

Hello, Con!

Glad to see you still at school. Glad to receive your post and I want
to respond to it.

      I know I mentioned this before, but Dresden was bombed because
the
> Russians requested raids in that sector to stop reinforcements, it fit into
> Allied operations against transportation centers, and it did still have some
> viable military targets.

    Yes, you did, as I do remember, however, do you have any idea as
to what some of those viable military targets were? I hadn't read
that. The fact that Dresden had escaped the treatment given to Berlin
and Hamburg seemed reason enough to bomb Dresden, although, I agree
that the Russians had requested Allied assistance in that area, it
seems to me that the fact that Dresden had become a mecca for
refugees would seem reason enough to bomb it. Such an attack could
not be put an even greater strain on civilian morale in the rest of
the country.

    Thanks for the input.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 12:03:28 EST
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Alsace/Colmar Campaign

On Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:31:00 EST Don Bowden said:
>1. The famous Nisei 442nd was involved in the campaign in Southern France and
>on North-- I had always heard of them being in Italy. I didn't realize they
>were then shipped to France. It appears that by Dec. 1944 the unit was prac-
>tically annihilated by casualties, illness etc.

Over the course of the war it took about 300% casualties.  Not too unusual
if it had been a German unit, I would guess, but how does that compare with the
rest of the American & British outfits, out of curiousity?

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 12:10:42 -0500
From:    Daniel Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Wildcats v. Zeros

What follows is adapted from AIR & SPACE, April-May issue. I am
rushing the publication date because this List is going out of
business, and I thought readers should know about this book:

THE FIRST TEAM AND THE GAUDALCANAL CAMPAIGN: NAVAL FIGHTER COMBAT
FROM AUGUST TO NOVEMBER 1942, by John B. Lundstrom. Naval
Institute Press, 1993. 600 pp., b&w photos, $44.95 (hardbound).

     As everyone knows, U.S. warplanes in 1941-1942 were no match
for Japan's nimble, long-range, cannon-equipped Mitsubishi A6M
Zero.

     Nevertheless, the first year of the Pacific War ended in a
draw between the Zero and the Grumman F4F Wildcat, as John
Lundstrom shows in this and his earlier book on the same subject.
>From December 1941 to November 1942, U.S. Navy carrier pilots
shot down 40 Zeros while losing 41 Wildcats in air-to-air
combat.

     And those are actual results, not the inflated figures
beloved by military aviation buffs. Over-claiming was rampant in
the Southwest Pacific, as elsewhere, with Lundstrom concluding
that the "First Team" was credited with two Japanese planes for
each one actually destroyed. (For their part, the Zero pilots were
credited with six American planes for every one shot down!)

     Lundstrom attributes the First Team's respectable record to
to the inventive tactics of American pilots, to their training in
deflection shooting, and to the Wildcat's sturdy construction.
Okay, but most Zero pilots were highly trained veterans of the
war in China, so isn't that just another way of saying that their
plane wasn't as good as it might have been? The Japanese air
marshals evidently made a conscious decision to sacrifice their
pilots in order to obtain extreme range and maneuverability. It
was a war-losing strategy, and it wasn't even a particularly good
tactical move, as the First Team showed.

     Lundstrom's prose is as ponderous as the flattops that are
his favorite subject, and like an aircraft carrier he can
attain to something like poetry:

     "The Japanese who executed the adroit overhead (and wounded
Brown with a full deflection shot as later investigation
determined) drew alongside his victim's wing. The two pilots
carefully looked each other over and, pleased with himself, the
Japanese grinned and waved. The odds are strong that Brown's able
and amiable opponent was PO1c Nishizawa Hiroyoshi."

     Petty Officer Nishizawa was the top-ranked ace of the
Pacific War, credited with 87 kills--an improbable figure that no
doubt includes Lt. Herbert Brown, USN, who lived to tell this
story.

     The book contains scores of photographs, including a
remarkable shot of two Aichi D3A "Val" bombers in flight. Line
drawings are abundant, too, though I still needed an atlas to
know where Lundstrom was taking me at times. Altogether, this is
a magnificent piece of aviation history, well worth the
considerable effort it demands of the reader.

                                        -- Daniel Ford

(The book can be ordered from the publisher at 1-800-233-8764)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 12:10:02 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Addr: ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on March 18

Hi, thanks for all the kind comments about the list. I wish I could have kept
it running forever, but my doctors are adamant that I reduce my work load
and it was give up evertything *but* the list, or keep the list and stop
everything else. The choice was not easy but the important never are, are
they?

As Jim Gerland's post mentioned, WWII-L can be kept alive if someone wants
to take it over. Contact Jim for more details.

servabo fidem,
Larry J

[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 11:45:59 -0500
From:    "W. C. (RUSTY) DIVENS" <[email-masked]>
Subject: A digital barrel roll in your honor!

Larry:

When I read that you were given a choice between moderating WWII-L
and school, my first thought was "Gez, I wonder when he will get
around to finishing school?" :^)

You have done a most exemplary job, balancing the needs and wishes of
all, moderating with restraint and fairness.

I only wish there was a way to marry your schooling with the moderation
of this list, as you have provided a much-respected academic resource
in the several years you have made this list possible.  It is surely of
the highest academic standard, and SHOULD be worth a PhD in and of
itself.  If you think a letter to your advisor would help, I can bet that
within a week, said advisor would get close to a hundred.

You should be proud of your achievement.  We are all grateful.  I learned
a lot, encountered some of the finest folks, and thoroughly enjoyed the
experience.

Bill (Rusty) Divens
head, Access Services
Falk Library of the Health Sciences
PITT
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 12:12:03 EST
From:    Bill Vasilion <[email-masked]>
Subject: PG. wodehouse

           Thanks Sidney that was very well written about pg.
          I have not read any biography of him yet..though I enjoy
           his stories.... and have watched the serials on tv.
          I think he is like Allstair Cooke who came over long ago
            and stayed in the United States.

                           bill

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 11:18:49 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on 18 March.

Hello, Larry!

I am shocked and dismayed that this list is going to be closed. May I
ask the reason why? Is there no one out here to take it over and
allow us to chat on this subject?

All I can say is that someway and somehow this list and its
subscribers must be allowed at some point to come together again. I
will do as you suggest below and stay subscribed until notified how
to resubscribe to a new list.

Larry, whether you realize this or not, this list has changed my
whole outlook on computers and having access to this list and to the
many wonderful subscribers to it will leave a real gap in my life
that will be difficult to fill. I know I must speak for some out
here.

Thank you for all your unselfish work and devotion to this list over
the months and years perhaps. I will miss you, personally, and I hope
that at some point we may all get together again. Please stay in
touch some way or any way that you can.

All the best to you and Kim.

Terry
----------------------------------------------------------------------

> This list will be closed as of 18 March. After that date there will be no
> WWII-L. I will store a copy of the membership list on the 17th. This list
> will be forwarded to H-Net to be used to notify you of the formation of
> the new H-WWII (or whatever they choose to call it) when and if it's formed
> during summer/fall. If you wish notification of the new list, stay sub'ed
> to WWII-L and you'll be on the list. If not interested I suggest you unsub
> prior to the 17th.
>
> Thanks to everyone for an interesting couple of years and keep the candles
> lit until the light come back on, on Broadway.
>
> servabo fidem,
> Larry J
>

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:28:16 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Addr: Movies

As I recall, Harold Russell did not pursue an acting career after
BYOOL.
He was apponted director of a national organization for disabled
veterans. A memorable man, who did a lot to widen understanding
of those incapacitated by war or accident.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 11:25:16 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Addr: Movies

Hello, Richard!

I can answer one of your questions.

>Does anyone know what happened to the career of the young sailor
> who had lost his arms?

    Harold Russell went to work for the US Government in the the VA
Administration where he eventually held a high post. I don't know
which one, but for years he was closely associated with veterans'
affairs. He really did lose both his hands.

    In an episode of the television series
> CHINA BEACH the nurse returned home to visit her family, and her
> uncle appeared in the episode. He has lost his arms at Anzio, but
> there was a very strong resemblance to the sailor from BEST YEARS.
> Anyone know if the same actor played both characters? His name
> is Harold Russell, and to quote from a review, "...Russell, a
> young man who had lost both hands during the war when a
> defective fuse exploded while in his grasp. Russell had never
> acted before, except in a brief training film made by the War
> Department where he demonstrated his mastery of the
> prosthetic hooks he used in place of hands. Goldwyn and (director
> William) Wyler were both amazed by Russell's ability, and Wyler
> went on record to say that Russell was the best natural actor
> he had ever tested." Russell won an Academy Award for his
> portrayal. I think I will pursue this and see if I can find out
> if Russell eventually  appeared on the CHINA BEACH episode, and
> what happened to this fine actor's career. Any ideas?

    Other than what I wrote above, I don't know what happened to him.
He is still around, that much I know.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:33:52 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Addr: Bombing of Coventry

Further to your post...

Durirng the Luftwaffe "Baedeker Raids" on British medeival cities, they
hit Canterbury -- including the destruction of one of the oldest
collections of books in England -- when they demolished the Cantebury
Cathedral Library.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 11:30:09 -0600
From:    Jeff Dingbaum <[email-masked]>
Subject: Thanks

Larry & Kim,

Thanks for the great job.  Lurker that I am, I have enjoyed this list
in the few months that I have been on it.  I am sad to see it go.  Good
luck and good health.

Jeff Dingbaum
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:44:39 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Meeting of Former WWII-L List members

Many of us here share your enthusiasm.  Hope you can keep us informed
of any moves to keep us together on-line.
Regards.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 09:51:32 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Alsace/Colmar Campaign

You can learn more about Col Frederick by contacting:
        William Story,
        Executive Director,
        First Special Service Force Association,
        11815 Quarter Horse Court,
        Oakton, VA 22124, USA
Bill Story is one of the many Canadians who were in the so-called
Devil's Brigade.  He can tell you much about Col Frederick, first-hand.
Tell him I sent you. :-)
Regards from Victoria, British Columbia, on Canada's far Pacific shore.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 14:38:52 BRA
From:    "Silvio E. G. Melo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRV:Games

      Hi
      Frist, my excuses at all. I only read my posts one time a week and
always be retarding.
      At games. I read a information of the game War in Russia. This a SSI
game and his list prices is US$79.95 (Aug.1993). In time, the SSI have a
good number of War Games and simulators. I recommend especialy the advanced
simulator Great Naval Battles series, this is a very, very good.
      An more games... I making a non-commercial board war game, about the
Russia overrun out the german midlle group of armies in summer of 44's. I
have the battle order of both, but only in terms of totals number of units.
I don't have the number and type of divisions by army. Anyone can help me?
The divisions especifications is welcome, but I don't really espected this.

                     Silvio E. G. Melo

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 19:12:22 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Wildcats v. Zeros

On Tue, 15 Mar 1994, Daniel Ford wrote:

> plane wasn't as good as it might have been? The Japanese air
> marshals evidently made a conscious decision to sacrifice their
> pilots in order to obtain extreme range and maneuverability. It

This seems a little bit overstated to me. The Japanese simply
exaggerated the importance of maneuverability, an error that is
certainly not uncommon amongst air tacticians. They had accepted
the superior performance of the monoplane, but adhered to biplane
tactics and the maneuverability. And the Army wenty ever further
along this way than the IJN; I can't imagine that the Army would
have accepted the bad roll characteristics that the A6M 'Zeke'
had at high speed!

When Japan went to war with the US in 1941 the ideas were already
changing. The fast interceptor Ki.44 'Tojo' entered service in 1941,
and was designed as a reaction to combat experience in the
'Nomonhan incident' fighting with Soviet aircraft. Admitted that
many experienced Japanese pilots regarded the Ki.44 with suspicion.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 19:24:35 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on 18 March.

I'm sorry to see it go...

Thanks Larry, for maintaining a fine list...

Thanks to the many contributors, who contributed to the unique character
of this list by their thinking and research...

Goodbye. Maybe we'll meet again on some other list...

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 11:30:11 -0600
From:    Jeff Dingbaum <[email-masked]>
Subject: WWII on WWW?

There are numerous ftp servers out there that have WWII games, pictures,
etc.  Does anyone know if there are any World Wide Web servers dedicated
to WWII?  If not dedicated, at least maybe someone that has put up a few
things in his/her personal area.  WWW would be a great method to present
this topic - online maps, images, vintage sound bites, etc.

If anyone is interested in picking up on this,  I run a WWW server for
High Energy Physics and would consider helping someone get started in
this area, and possibly helping out a little.  Unfortunately, I don't
think that I can offer any of our machines to host this, so it would
be a BYOC.

Jeff Dingbaum
webmaster and gophertamer
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 10:36:47 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: UTAH Beach

You may be able to write one story around d the anecdote that several D-Day codewords (including UTAH) appeared
in a newspaper crossword puzzle as clues, just before the
landings. I cannot recall whether this happened in the Uk or the
States, but the coincidence caused no end of worry for security
services -- and a lot of embarrassment for one crossword puzzle
writer....
:-)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 13:35:21 -0500
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: This list needs a new owner!

Jim,

        Since I have offered to start a wildcat list, I guess I could
give it a go.  The only problem is that I know that I will fall short
of filling Larry's shoes.  He's going to be a tough act to follow.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
With reasonable men, I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but
to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will
certainly be lost.             -- William Lloyd Garrison

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 18:50:15 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: To Terry Moore

Hey Terry

I am very sad about this list's death in few days, but as there seems
to be no one that can take it over so be it :(  I asked you to e-mail to
info on varius German "secret-weapons" and  hope you will do so. Coul I
have you e-mail address? I cannot write to you (and many others) when
the lists goes down on the 18th. If you are afraid I will bug you in the
future you can always ignore my mailings if I do so :)

Bye Terry, nice having you on the list while I have been here

Final wwii-l  greeting from Iceland :) BYE!!

Gudmundur J. Helgason

E-mail:    [email-masked]
z

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 18:54:24 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: QUEST: Herbert A. Werner

>
> Folks:
>
> I am looking for info regarding Capt. Herbert A. Werner.  He was a former
> U-boat commander, and moved to the US in 1957 and became a citizen.  The
> U-953 was his last command.  He is the author of "Iron Coffins."  I believe
> he also taught for a time at the U. of Maryland.  Is he still alive?  And
> what did he do after his teaching?  Any info would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> John Peterson
> [email-masked]
>

        Hello John

According to his own Iron Coffins he moved to the US in 1957 and there
he died (no date given). I am joining Sharkhunters and they say that he
is a member of that group so either he is still alive (doubtful) or the
Sharkhunters have VERY good connections to "the other side" :)

Gudmundur J. Helgason

E-mail:    [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 14:19:39 EST
From:    "Jonah Triebwasser, Adjunct Instructor,
         Marist Coll" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[3]: U-Boats In USA Waters??

>>  =========================================================================
>There was a movie made about such an occurance.  It was pretty
>interesting.  They had landed a half a dozen or so crewmembers
>and while they were on shore their U-boat was sunk.  They went to
>a nearby village and took a hostage (and killed him eventually).
>They headed towards America( I think they were planning to conduct
>some sabotage operations).  The last one,that avoided death or
>capture, was crossing the St. Lawrence River in a freight train,
>but was stopped by (I think) a deserting U.S service man or a
>draft dogger.  I believe that is how it all went, it has been
>several years and many movies ago.  I can not say whether any of
>it is true, but it was a good movie.  Maybe someone will remember
>the flick and write about its validity.
>St.Lawrence Univ.  X7lw.slumus.bitnet          Eric Rode '97
I seem to remember an excellent film with this story line with
Lawrence Olivier as the German uboat commander and Raymond Massey
as the Canadian who captures the last German on a ferry crossing.
Can't remember the name of the film though! Sorry!

Jonah Triebwasser
Adjunct Instructor
Marist College
Dyson Building (Adult Education)
Poughkeepsie, New York12601
Tel: (914) 575-3331, ext. 7037
E-Mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 13:23:00 -0500
From:    JOHN NEMETH 404-347-4216 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Need Book Info!

          I am too sorry to see this list go especially since I just signed
          on!  I am a major WWII buff much to the dismay of my wife.

          A few years ago I saw a book which listed all sorts of
          statistical and other information on WWII, including a list of
          which country declared war against another with dates and other
          info.  Does anyone know of a good source for this info?  Also are
          there any good sources of Hungary's role in WWII?

          #1 quote of the war "We sure liberated the Hell out of this
          place."

          John

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 14:34:09 EST
From:    Ron Babuka <[email-masked]>
Subject: List

I too enjoy this list too much to see it go away - if Joe B. wants to take
a crack at it GREAT - if not I think we need to find a new administrator.
Please correct me if I was incorrect that we have a volunteer to continue
this list.  I think an important step would be to see if we can keep
this list going before we all spend the next several days with the
asta lavestas.  Perhaps Larry (in a last official act of a truely great
career) can somehow coordinate or oversee a peaceful transition?

Ron Babuka

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 13:46:11 -0600
From:    Jeff Dingbaum <[email-masked]>
Subject: WWII on World Wide Web?

Please disregard this post if one has already reached you, or if you receive
another one.  I sent the following message out to the list almost immeadiately
after another one, but never saw it.

There are numerous ftp servers out there that have WWII games, pictures,
etc.  Does anyone know if there are any World Wide Web servers dedicated
to WWII?  If not dedicated, at least maybe someone that has put up a few
things in his/her personal area.  WWW would be a great method to present
this topic - online maps, images, vintage sound bites, etc.

If anyone is interested in picking up on this,  I run a WWW server for
High Energy Physics and would consider helping someone get started in
this area, and possibly helping out a little.  Unfortunately, I don't
think that I can offer any of our machines to host this, so it would
be a BYOC.

Jeff Dingbaum
webmaster and gophertamer
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 16:04:45 AST
From:    Joanne Brown <[email-masked]>
Subject: WANT:  Book:  The Great Book of World War II Airplanes

As noted in the subject field, I've been hunting for this book since
last fall, it is apparently out-of-print.  If somebody on the list has
seen this for sale anywhere, new or used, I would appreciate hearing
from you.

Please contact me at my own email address.   Citation info follows:

The Great Book of World War II airplanes / authors, Jeffrey L. Ethell
... [et al]; illustrator, Rikyu Watanabe.  New York: Bonanza Books;
distributed by Crown Publishers, 1984.  632 p. illus.  34cms.
ISBN # 0517459930.

Thanks a mil,

Joanne Brown

                   Joanne Brown, Reference Department
Bibliotheque Ward Chipman Library         E-Mail     [email-masked]
University of New Brunswick               Tel (506)  648-5710
Saint John, N.B. Canada                   Fax (506)  648- 5701

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 15:08:51 EST
From:    Doug McCabe <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: UTAH Beach

                   Ohio University Electronic Communication

   Date:  15-Mar-1994 02:42pm EST

     To:  Remote Addressee                     ( _MX%"[email-masked]" )

   From:  Doug McCabe                                Dept:  Library
          MCCABE                                   Tel No:  (614) 593-2715

Subject:  Re:UTAH Beach

    Leonard Sidney Dawe, a physics teacher, and Melville Jones, also a
    school teacher, were the unwitting crossword culprits for London's
    _Daily Telegraph_.  Their fame was that they never used the came clue
    twice.  Less known was their fame within MI.5 and Scotland Yard for
    over a month before D-Day.  Finally, investigators decided to confront
    Dawe over his using OVERLORD code words in his crosswords.

         "Mr. Dawe," said one of the men as the questioning began, "during
    the last month a number of highly confidential code words concerning a
    certain Allied operation have appeared in the _Telegraph_ crossword
    puzzles.  Can you tell us what prompted you to use them - or where you
    got them?"
         Before the surprised Dawe could answer, the MI.5 man pulled a list
    out of his pocket and said, "We are particularly interested in finding
    out how you came to choose this word."  He pointed to the list.  The
    prize competition crossword in the _Telegraph_ for May 27 included the
    clue (11 across), "But some big-wig like this has stolen some of it at
    times."  This mystifying clue through some strange alchemy made sense
    to Dawe's devoted followers.  The answer, published just two days
    before on June 2, was the code name for the entire Allied invasion plan
    - "Overlord."
         Dawe did not know what Allied operation they were talking about,
    so he was not unduly startled or even indignant at these questions.  He
    could not explain, he told them, just how or wuy he had chosen that
    particular word.  It was quite a common word in history books, he
    pointed out.  "But how," he protested, "can I tell what is being used
    as a code word and what isn't?"
         The two MI.5 men were extremely courtious: they agreed that it was
    difficult.  But wasn't it strange that all these code words should
    appear in the same month?
         One by one they went over the list with the now slightly harassed
    bespectacled schoolmaster.  In the puzzle for May 2, the clue "One of
    the U.S." (17 across) had produced the solution "Utah."  The answer to
    three down, "Red Indian on the Missouri," on May 22, turned out to be
    "Omaha."
         In the May 30 crossword (11 across), "This bush is a center of
    nursery revolutions" required the word "Mulberry" - the code name for
    the two artificial harbors that were to be placed in position off the
    beaches.  And the solution to 15 down on June 1, "Britannia and he hold
    to the same thing," had been "Neptune" - the code word for the naval
    operations in the invasion.
         Dawe had no explanation for the use of these words.  For all he
    knew, he said, the crosswords mentioned on the list could have been
    completed six months before.  Was there any explanations?  Dawe could
    suggest only one: fantastic coincidence.

    [From Cornelius Ryan's _The Longest Day_ (New York: Simon and Schuster,
    1959) first edition, pp. 46-48.]

    I wish I knew why the beach names (Utah, Omaha, Gold, Silver, and Juno)
    were chosen.

    Doug McCabe

Received:  15-Mar-1994 03:08pm

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 15:24:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Movies

49TH PARALLEL, British movie released in 1941, 107-minutes.  Director:
Michael Powell.  Cast: Anton Walbrook, Eric Portman, Leslie Howard, Raymond
Massey, Laurence Oliver, Glynis Johns, Niall MacGInnis and Finlay Currie.
Taut, exciting WWII yarn of German sailors whose U-boat is sunk off the
Canadian coast.  Top-notch cast, rich suspense and characterizations.
Oscar winner for Best Story (Emeric Pressburger); screenplay by Pressburger
and Rodney Ackland.  US TITLE = THE INVADERS.  Original British running
time is 123-minutes.

SOURCE: Leonard Maltin's MOVIE AND VIDEO GUIDE 1993

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 17:26:13 BRA
From:    "Silvio E. G. Melo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Weap:Informations

     Please
     If is possible, I like know the fate of folowing ships of the french
navy (WWII):
- Aigle        (Aigle Class)
- Gerfaut            "
- Vantour            "
- Cassard            "
- Kersaint           "
- Tartu              "
- Vauquelin          "
- Tapagueuse   (Ardent Class)
- Dedaigneuse        "
- Everything Arras Class
- Leopard       (Chacal Class)
- Lynx               "
- Audierne           "
- Everything Elan Class
- Everything Fripponne Class
- Granit         (Granit Class)
- Guepard        (Guepard Class)
- Vauban               "
- Verdun               "
- Everything La Pomone Class
- Volta          (Mogador Class)
- Mistral        (Simoun Class)
- Ouragan              "
- Simoun
- Tempete
- Trombe
      Anywhere information is welcome. Thanks in advance.
                                        Silvio E. G. Melo

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 16:16:40 -0500
From:    Daniel Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Richard O'Kane, RIP

Since this is the week for valedictories, I'd like to take note of the
death of Rear Admiral Richard O'Kane, commander of TANG and earlier
executive officer of WAHOO under "Mush" Morton. They were two of the most
aggressive submariners of WWII, and Dick was one of the navy's most
decorated officers. On her 5th combat patrol, WAHOO was sunk by her last
available torpedo, which malfunctioned, circled back, and hit her
admidships. The men on the bridge were thrown into the water, and a few
others swam free of the sinking boat. Dick and a half-doze others were
picked up and sent to Omori as "special prisoners of Japan." He weighed
less than 100 pounds upon his release. (One reason I never could get too
excited about the internment of Japanese civilizns, I suppose.)

As a writer, I know that Dick would like no better memorial than to have
you read his books: CLEAR THE BRIDGE, about his own command; and WAHOO,
about Morton's. They are both still in print from Presidio Press. I
recommend them both, though WAHOO is a better read.

Regards -

Dan Ford      <e-mail: [email-masked]>

              <postal: 433 Bay Road, Durham NH 03824 USA>
              <voice or fax: +1-603-868-5850>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 16:24:21 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: This list needs a new owner!

>
> Jim,
>
>         Since I have offered to start a wildcat list, I guess I could
> give it a go.  The only problem is that I know that I will fall short
> of filling Larry's shoes.  He's going to be a tough act to follow.
> --

  Joe, if you want to keep it going, you have my blessing and support.
I'll give you what help I can. Talk to Jim Gerland about the procedures.

> Joe Barone
> [email-masked]
> With reasonable men, I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but
> to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will
> certainly be lost.             -- William Lloyd Garrison
>
Larry J

[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 16:53:42 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: List Closing

Larry,

Just want to add my thanks and appreciation to all those you
have received.  They are well deserved.

This was the first list I ever belonged to, and that has only
been for a few months.  And, I considered myself something of
an interested observer of WWII, but the scholarship and
know-how demonstrated by the users of this list, for the most
part, was extremely enlightening.  My list of books to acquire
and read has doubled, and I will miss adding to it.

Thank you again for a most memorable experience.

Jim Irwin
Defense Personnel Support Center
Philadelphia PA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 14:21:05 -0800
From:    Jim Benn <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: This list needs a new owner!

Today's posts gave some hope that the list may survive.  My thanks in
advance to those considering stepping into Larry's shoes.

I've noticed many folks on the list work in libraries; if any of you are
going to be at the Public Library Assoc (PLA) meeting in Atlanta next
week, please stop by the Auto-Graphics booth and say hi.

If WWII-L is still alive, we can check in on it; we'll be hooked up at
the booth.  In any case, I'd be happy to meet any of you FTF!

 *=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*> Jim Benn  [[email-masked]] <*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*
 |-=[        Auto-Graphics, Inc.       ]=[      /~~)       /~~)           ]=-|
 |-=[        8 West Main Street        ]=[     (__(_UTO - (__/RAPHICS     ]=-|
 |-=[        Niantic, CT  06357        ]=[              .___/             ]=-|
 *=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*>  PHONE: 800-733-6939 = FAX: 203-691-0183  <*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 16:05:35 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: This list needs a new owner!

If you take it over Joe, we can take over the Kelly's Heroes
quotes--that should free up some time.

"When you've been assault by Tigers, that is assaulted!" (paraphrase)

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 17:13:34 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII on WWW?

>
> There are numerous ftp servers out there that have WWII games, pictures,
> etc.  Does anyone know if there are any World Wide Web servers dedicated
> to WWII?  If not dedicated, at least maybe someone that has put up a few
> things in his/her personal area.  WWW would be a great method to present
> this topic - online maps, images, vintage sound bites, etc.

  I think that either byrd or the site that mirrors it, sunsite.unc.edu,
is accessible via WWW. I know sunsite is available by gopher and both
are accessible via ftp.
ssion
> If anyone is interested in picking up on this,  I run a WWW server for
> High Energy Physics and would consider helping someone get started in
> this area, and possibly helping out a little.  Unfortunately, I don't
> think that I can offer any of our machines to host this, so it would
> be a BYOC.

  byrd is off to a good start, with some *very* interesting files. I'm
just about to complete Mike Fitch's collection of diary entries for
"Boomerang Barbara", a B-17 with the 8th AF (any body heard of them ;-)?
Missions 1-24 are in the can with some additional information added to
"make them real".

>
> Jeff Dingbaum
> webmaster and gophertamer
> [email-masked]
>
Larry J

[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 18:38:36 -0500
From:    William Eldridge <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[3]: U-Boats In USA Waters??

> I seem to remember an excellent film with this story line with
> Lawrence Olivier as the German uboat commander and Raymond
> Massey as the Canadian who captures the last German on a ferry
> crossing. Can't remember the name of the film though! Sorry!

I believe the movie's name is "49th Parallel". It's occasionally shown
here on Boston area UHF stations.

-- Bill Eldridge

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 Mar 1994 01:08:58 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII on WWW?

On Tue, 15 Mar 1994, Larry & Kim Jewell wrote:
>
>   I think that either byrd or the site that mirrors it, sunsite.unc.edu,
> is accessible via WWW. I know sunsite is available by gopher and both
> are accessible via ftp.
> ssion

The sunsite.unc.edu is available over WWW, as
http://sunsite.unc.edu/unchome.html. There is a gateway to their ftp site.
But are they still mirroring byrd? I wasn't able to find it.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 16:19:01 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: UTAH Beach

*That's* the story!  Couldn't recall where I had read it.
Thank you for posting it to me in full.
Regards.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 Mar 1994 01:17:18 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII on WWW addition

>The sunsite.unc.edu is available over WWW, as
>http://sunsite.unc.edu/unchome.html. There is a gateway to their ftp site.
>But are they still mirroring byrd? I wasn't able to find it.

Sorry, I forgot to add that byrd is certainly reachable over WWW, also
via a FTP interface: file://byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history. There is a ftp
interface at http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/ftp-interface.html, that
includes a list of known ftp servers.

(And now I am busy, an 'Even more Comprehensive HTTP sitelist' can be
found at http://www.mit.edu:8001/afs/sipb/user/mkgray/ht/compre2.html.)

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 20:22:28 EST
From:    Crane Conrad LTC <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: FDR: Did He Know He Won Before Dying?

Chuck,
     Reference the briefings that FDR got, at FDR Library in Hyde Park there is
a set of files titled "President's Map Room Files."  If you look at those, you
can get a good picture about what he was told about the war.  It was pretty
detailed, but large scale.

                                             LTC Con Crane
                                             USMA

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 15 Mar 1994 20:25:04 -0600
From:    Lakeville Senior High <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on 18 March.

Here is my two cents on the list closing:  When I was in 4th grade, I read
all the books in the school library on WWII many times.  My parents gave
me college texts on WW2 as gifts when I was in junior high; I always
watched World at War every Sunday at 10:30 p.m.  Now I am 29 years
old and I still like WW2 However, until I found the list I always thought I
was a bit of a geek -- It's been great to know
that many people share the same interests.  Thanks

Andy Charrier

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 Mar 1994 12:07:25 SST
From:    LEE YU JIN <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: WWII-L Closing on 18 March.

Sob!
Couldn't it wait until after D-Day?

I've only been in the list for only a few months and sad to see my favourite
list go off.

To Larry and Kim, thank you for the good job.

Yu Jin

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 16 Mar 1994 12:37:51 SST
From:    LEE YU JIN <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: UTAH Beach

 >I wish I knew why the beach names (Utah, Omaha, Gold, Silver, and Juno)
 >    were chosen.

 >  Doug McCabe

Was there a Silver Beach?  As far as I've read,there was a Sword Beach.

Lee Yu Jin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 14 Mar 1994 to 15 Mar 1994
*************************************************