Subject: WWII-L Digest - 21 Mar 1994 to 22 Mar 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 00:00:23 -0500

There are 34 messages totalling 2010 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. GEN: Mistreatment German POWs?
  2. TAC: Cooperation of forces.
  3. INF: Ike's prewar carreer (5)
  4. INF: USAAF 22 MAR 44
  5. N American Military Aerobatic Team Skeds
  6. Airshows in NE USA
  7. Addr: Re:TAC:Cooperation of Forces (3)
  8. command cooperation between allies (4)
  9. N AMERICAN MILITARY AIRSHOWS SKEDS
 10. U-boat attack on St. John's, Nfld
 11. Ike & Alsace
 12. WEAP: Foo Fighters, Secret Weapons, etc. (7)
 13. Ike (3)
 14. GEN: MISTREATMENT OF GERMAN POWS (2)
 15. Blitzkrieg France 1940
 16. WEAP: BV-141, The strange asymmetric plane

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 21 Mar 1994 23:35:13 -0500
From:    Stan Koper <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: Mistreatment German POWs?

> On Mon, 21 Mar 1994, Terry Moore wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> >
> > >   Oslo, March 21.  A German correspondent, in a recent message, spoke of the
> > > deliberate starvation of German POWs in camps near Wiesbaden (e.g. Bretzenhe
> > ).
> > > He says that, as a boy, he talked with some of the survivors.
> > >   He also mentioned orders from the Eisenhower headquarters to block from
> > > August 1944 to May 8, 1945 the access of the Red Cross to allied POW camps.
> > >   Can anyone throw any light on these claims?
> > >   Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway
> >
> >     Never heard of that, and in all my reading of Eisenhower's
> > attitudes at the end of the war, I would seriously discount that
> > story. Given the individuals and the times, it sounds like a case of
> > "sour grapes". I would like to see proof of that, and I don't think
> > there is any. It could be that given the situation at the time, and
> > the deteriorated state of the German wartime economy at the time, a
> > shipment of food, etc, may have been delayed and this may have been
> > taken as a deliberate attempt to starve POW's, but I have never seen
> > anything to support such an account, and doubt there is anything to
> > subtantiate this.
> >
> >     My two cents' worth anyway.
> >
> >     Terry
> >
> Just to add a couple of more cents to the pot.  I have to agree with
> Terry that it sounds like "sour grapes."  I have know a number of men who
> were held in German Prisoner of War camps and none of them have anything
> bad to say about their time at the camps.  In fact one man, Glen Brown,
> from Streator, Illinois, has had nothing but praise for his captors.  He
> tells stories of sharing Red Cross packages with the guards, because the
> prisoners actually had more to eat than the German soldiers when the
> packages arrived.
>
> I will agree that the prisoners went hungry, especially toward the end
> of the war, but so did their captors.
>
> C.K. Bryant

Mr. Bryant, you may be talking to different POW's.  I recall
that during the 1970's, when the survivors of the Sagan camp
(Stalag Luft VII?) wanted to have their former commandant come to
one of their reunions, persons who had spent the war
in other camps (particularly those for infantry and/or enlisted
personnel) raised a fuss.  Their point was that RHIP extended
to wartime captivity, and the experience of the EM was *very*
different from that of their officers. I can't recall the author's
name, but the novel _Prisoners of Combine D_ gives some idea of
the experience of those who were not of the officer class.

Stan Koper
[email-masked]

      This message brought to you by uqwk 1.7 and Yarn 0.58

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 21 Mar 1994 23:02:01 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: Cooperation of forces.

Yes, I should have quoted you as saying there was "more than one" instance
of the SAS and SOE betraying each other to the Germans.
        Equally as preposterous, of course.
        There is not a single credible incidence of the SOE and SAS ever
betraying each other to the Germans -- "more than once or, for that matter,
*ever*.
        With respect< I do not doubt for a moment that you saw such claims
written about. My point is that such goings-on are as unfounded as they
are pointless.  However, it suits the gloomy all-is-dispair-and-nastiness
"conspiracy" obsession of current movies.
        You might enjoy a couple of accounts, that are no less exciting
for being factual:
                SOE: The Special Operations Executive 1940-46,
                        by M.R.D.Foot, BBC Books, 1984
                THE SAS: The Official History, by Philip Warner,
                        William Kimber/Sphere Books, London, 1971
                A HISTORY OF THE SAS REGIMENT, by John Strawson,
                        Grafton Books/Collins, London, 1984.
Enjoy!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 10:03:47 MET-1
From:    Bognar Attila <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Ike's prewar carreer

Hi Terry,

Thanks for your help. I would be interested in his military career
from leaving West Point (in 1915 right?) to being appointed as
Suprene Commander. The thing is that I'm writing a paper on his
conflicts with Monty in 1944 and I would need this info for a kind of
an introductory chapter. So not many detailes, only the most
important ones and maybe a few words about what was his job, how did
he feel, etc.
I am afraid I again too general, but I am at a loss at the moment how
to be more precise.

Hope it's not much of a burden for you. Thanks anyway.

Attila  [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 10:12:11 MET-1
From:    Bognar Attila <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Ike's prewar carreer

Dan,

Thanks for your info, it would have been intersting to see that film.
I didn't know he had been working with Patton before Europe. Though
I should have at least suspected for it did strike me how good
friends they had already been when Patton arrived in London. Maybe
this scene casts a light on the later events in the European Theater,
don't you think?

Attila  [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 08:22:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 22 MAR 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 22 MARCH 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): Japanese troops move into India from Burma
and penetrate to 30 miles (48 km) E of Imphal. In Burma, 100+ fighters and
fighter-bombers over the Mogaung Valley attack troops, storage, and other
targets and cause several fires throughout the area; 20+ P-51s and B-25s
carry out ground support missions in the Mawlu area near Katha; near Rangoon
4 B-24s set fire to P-38 damages railroad bridges and several trucks at
Pyinmana.
  92d Fighter Squadron, 81st Fighter Group, arrives at Karachi, India from
Italy; they will be equipped with P-47s and enter combat on 1 Jun.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In French Indochina, 4 B-25s from Yangkai,
China hit several targets in and around Phu Dien Chau, Ha Trung, Dong Giao
and Nam Dinh; results include 3 locomotives destroyed and another damaged, 3
125-ft (38 m) steamers damaged, and a bridge roadbed weakened; 1 B-25 is
lost.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 273: 474 B-17s and 214
B-24s are dispatched to bomb aviation industry plants at Oranienburg and
Basdorf, Germany but 8/10 to 10/10 cloud cover prevents an attack; the
bombers hit the secondary target, Berlin, and targets of opportunity; the
bombers also drop 6.368 million leaflets; 1 bomber is damaged beyond repair
and 347 bombers are damaged; casualties are 20 WIA and 135 MIA. Details are:
  1. 460 of 474 B-17s bomb Berlin; 7 B-17s are lost.
  2. 196 of 214 B-24s bomb Berlin and 1 bombs Heide; 5 B-24s are lost.
Escort is provided by 125 P-38s, 496 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and 196
Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s. There is no air combat and the only claim
is for 1-0-0 Luftwaffe aircraft on the ground by P-47s. Details are:
  1. 3 P-38s are lost and 7 damaged; 3 pilots are MIA.
  2. 5 P-47s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 9 damaged; casualties are
1 WIA and 5 MIA.
  3. 4 P-51s are lost and 2 damaged beyond repair; 4 pilots are MIA.
  Mission 274: 6 of 6 B-17s drop 263 bundles of leaflets on Paris, France;
and The Hague, Amsterdam and Leeuwarden, The Netherlands at 2135-2207 hours
without loss.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Italy, around 100 B-17s bomb
the marshalling yards at Verona while about 100 B-24s hit marshalling yards
at Bologna and Rimini; P-38s and P-47s provide cover for all the missions; 2
bombers are lost to flak and another has to ditch.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-26s attack the
Poggibonsi railroad bridge and viaduct W of Arezzo; B-25s hit a road bridge
near Poggibonsi; P-40s bomb guns in the Avezzano and Pico areas; P-40s on
patrols over Anzio and Cassino claim 2 fighters destroyed.
  Moves in Italy: HQ 47th Bombardment Group (Light) and 84th, 85th, 86th and
97th Bombardment Squadrons (Light) from Vesuvius Airfield to Capodichino with
A-20s; 486th and 488th Bombardment Squadrons (Medium), 340th Bombardment
Group (Medium), from Pompeii to Gaudo Airfield with B-25s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-25s from Abemama Island and
Tarawa Atoll bomb Mille and Jaluit Atolls.
  38th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 30th Bombardment Group (Heavy), ceases
operating from Makin Island and returns to base on Kwajalein Atoll with
B-24s.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On Bougainville Island, 30+
fighter-bombers hit a supply area along the Laruma River; a total of 13 B-24s
carry out small strikes against Buka, Monoitu, Kahili, and Kara. On New
Britain Island, 23 B-25s pound Lakunai Airfield, 10 B-24s bomb Tobera, and a
single B-24 hits Rabaul.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 130+ B-24s,
B-25s, A-20s, and P-40s attack the Wewak area, hitting enemy positions, AA
guns, storage areas at Wewak, Boram, and Yeschan and hitting shipping
offshore. Japanese HQ and troops are hit by 25 other aircraft in the Aitape-
Tadji area; P-47s hit barges at Alexishafen while P-39s hit a HQ and supply
dump along the Bogadjim Road: and A-20s hit barges near Pondo Plantation and
hit Ewasse village.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 08:48:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: N American Military Aerobatic Team Skeds

          NORTH AMERICAN MILITARY AEROBATIC TEAM SCHEDULE, 1994
                           ISSUE 5, 22 MAR 94

The following is the combined schedules for the North American military
aerobatic teams for the 1994 show season and includes schedules for shows
in:

  Canada
  Japan
  Korea
  Malaysia
  Singapore
  Thailand
  United States

This list is sorted by country and Province and State.  The four teams
covered in this post are:

  Canadian Armed Forces Snowbirds
  U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds
  U.S. Army Golden Knights
  U.S. Navy Blue Angels

Any additions, corrections, etc. would be appreciated.  Please e-mail them
to me at [email-masked].

REASON FOR REISSUE: Add the schedule for the U S Army's Golden Knights

I. CANADA
---------

ALBERTA
-------
Edmonton: Snowbirds, 21-22 May
Lethbridge: Golden Knights, 20-21 Aug
Peace River: Snowbirds, 26 Jul
Slave Lake: Snowbirds, 10 May

BRITISH COLUMBIA
----------------
Abbotsford: Snowbirds, 12-14 Aug and Blue Angels, 13-14 Aug
Comox: Snowbirds, 7 Aug
Fort Nelson: Snowbirds, 12 May
Kelowna: Snowbirds, 18 May
Penticton: Snowbirds, 28 Jul
Prince George: Snowbirds, 14-15 May
Sandspit: Snowbirds, 5 May
Terrace: Snowbirds, 3 May
Vanderhoff: Snowbirds, 23-24 Jul
Victoria: Snowbirds, 17 Aug

MANITOBA
--------
Grand Beach: Snowbirds, 8 Jul
St Andrews (Winnipeg): Snowbirds, 30-31 Jul

NEW BRUNSWICK
-------------
Chatham: Snowbirds, 28 May
Shediac: Snowbirds, 24 Aug

NORTHWEST TERRITORY
-------------------
CFS Yellowknife: Snowbirds, 1 May

NOVA SCOTIA
-----------
Greenwood: Snowbirds, 29 May
Shearwater: Snowbirds, 17-18 Sep

ONTARIO
-------
Cobden: Snowbirds, 31 May
Hamilton: Snowbirds, 18-19 Jun
London: Snowbirds, 4-5 Jun
Ottawa: Snowbirds, 2-3 Jul
Parry Sound: Snowbirds, 28 Jun
Toronto: Snowbirds, 3-5 Sep
Trenton: Snowbirds, 25-26 Jun

QUEBEC
------
Bagotville: Snowbirds, 11-12 Jun
Gaspe: Snowbirds, 7 Sep
Montmagny: Snowbirds, 15 Jun
Rimouski: Snowbirds, 9 Jun
St George De Beauce: Snowbirds, 5 Jul
St Jean: Snowbirds, 20 Aug
Sept-Iles: Snowbirds, 30 Aug
Sherbrooke: Snowbirds, 21 Aug
Thetford Mines: Snowbirds, 6 Jul
Val D'Or: Snowbirds, 7 Jun

SASKATCHEWAN
------------
Moose Jaw: Snowbirds, 29 Apr, 9-10 Jul and 14 Oct

YUKON TERRITORY
---------------
Whitehorse: Snowbirds, 8 May

II. JAPAN
---------
Kadena AB (Okinawa): Thunderbirds, 14 Aug
Misawa: Thunderbirds, 10 Aug

III. KOREA
----------
Osan AB: Thunderbirds, 13 Aug

IV. MALAYSIA
------------
??: Thunderbirds, 20 Aug

V. SINGAPORE
------------
??: Thunderbirds, 23 Aug

VI. THAILAND
------------
??: Thunderbirds, 18 Aug

VII. UNITED STATES
------------------

ALASKA
------
Elmendorf AFB: Thunderbirds 6 Aug

ALABAMA
-------
Anniston: Golden Knights, 15-16 Oct

ARIZONA
-------
Davis-Monthan AFB: Golden Knights, 22 Oct
Glendale: Thunderbirds, 5-6 Nov
Luke AFB: Blue Angels, 16 Apr
Mesa: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 19-20 Mar

ARKANSAS
--------
Little Rock AFB: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 26-27 Mar
Little Rock: Snowbirds, 28 Sep

CALIFORNIA
----------
Beale AFB: Golden Knights, 14-15 May
Castle AFB: Golden Knights, 8 Oct and Thunderbirds, 9 Oct
Miramar: Blue Angels, 19-21 Aug
MCAS El Toro: Blue Angels, 29 Apr-1 May
NAF El Centro: Blue Angels, 12 Mar
NAS Lemoore: Thunderbirds, 14-15 May
Redding: Thunderbirds, 25-26 Jun
Salinas: Blue Angels, 15-16 Oct
San Francisco: Blue Angels, 8-9 Oct
Travis AFB: Thunderbirds, 8 Oct
Ukiah: Golden Knights, 11-12 Jun
Van Nuys: Golden Knights, 20-21 Aug

COLORADO
--------
Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs: Thunderbirds, 1 Jun
Broomfield: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 30-31 Jul
Sterling: Golden Knights, 18 Jun

DELAWARE
--------
Dover AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 7-8 May

DISTRICT OF COLUMBA
-------------------
Washington: Golden Knights, 20-22 May

FLORIDA
-------
Daytona: Golden Knights, 7-8 May
Kissimmee: Snowbirds, 8-9 Oct
MacDill AFB: Thunderbirds, 22-27 Mar
NAS Jacksonville: Blue Angels, 24-25 Sep
NAS Pensacola: Blue Angels, 11-12 Nov
Patrick AFB: Golden Knights, 13 Nov
Pensacola Beach: Blue Angels, 16 Jul
Punta Gorda: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 9-10 Apr
Sanford: Thunderbirds, 29-30 Oct
Tyndall AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 16 Apr

GEORGIA
-------
Ft. Stewart: Golden Knights, 28 Jun
NAS Atlanta: Blue Angels, 1-2 Oct
Robins AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 22-23 Oct

HAWAII
------
NAS Barbers Point: Thunderbirds, 27 Aug

IDAHO
-----
Lewiston: Snowbirds, 21 Jul

ILLINOIS
--------
Chicago: Blue Angels, 27-28 Aug
Dekalb: Golden Knights, 9-10 Jul
Springfield: Blue Angels, 30-31 Jul
West Chicago: Golden Knights, 23-24 Jul

INDIANA
-------
Elkhart: Golden Knights, 3-5 Jun

IOWA
----
Davenport: Blue Angels, 25-26 Jun
Dubuque: Snowbirds, 21 Sep
Sioux City: Golden Knights, 29-31 Jul

KANSAS
------
McConnell AFB: Blue Angels, 18-19 Jun

KENTUCKY
--------
Bowling Green: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 24-25 Sep

LOUISIANA
---------
Barksdale AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 17 Apr
Hammond: Golden Knights, 30-31 Apr and 1 May
Lake Charles: Thunderbirds, 12-13 Nov
NAS New Orleans: Blue Angels, 29-30 Oct

MARYLAND
--------
Andrews AFB: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 20-21 May
Georgetown: Golden Knights, 27 May
U.S. Naval Academy, Annapolis: Blue Angels, 23-25 May

MASSACHUSETTS
-------------
Andover: Golden Knights, 30 May
NAS South Weymouth: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 11-12 Jun
Otis ANGB: Golden Knights, 13-14 Aug
Westover AFB: Snowbirds & Golden Knights, 27-28 Aug

MICHIGAN
--------
Battle Creek: Thunderbirds, 4 Jul
K.I. Sawyer AFB: Thunderbirds, 2 Jul
Muskegon: Golden Knights, 16-17 Jul
Selfridge ANGB: Blue Angels, 11-12 Jun
Traverse City: Blue Angels, 2-3 Jul

MINNESOTA
---------
Alexandria: Golden Knights, 13-14 Aug

MISSOURI
--------
Columbia: Golden Knights, 28-29 May
St Louis: Snowbirds, 24-25 Sep

NEVADA
------
Nellis AFB: Thunderbirds, 20 Nov

NEW HAMPSHIRE
-------------
Concord: Golden Knights, 25-26 Jun

NEW JERSEY
----------
Atlantic City: Golden Knights, 2-3 Jun

NEW MEXICO
----------
Cannon AFB: Golden Knights, 27 Aug
Roswell: Blue Angels, 7-8 May
Tucumcari: Golden Knights, 8 Oct

NEW YORK
--------
Brooklyn: Golden Knights, 2-4 Jul
Elmira: Golden Knights, 2-3 Jul
Scotia: Thunderbirds, 10-11 Sep

NORTH CAROLINA
--------------
Fayetteville: Golden Knights, 13 Sep
Ft. Bragg: Golden Knights, 4 Jul
MCAS New River: Golden Knights, 23 Apr
Morganton: Golden Knights, 8 Oct
Pope AFB: Golden Knights, 23 Apr
Wilmington: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 9-10 Apr

NORTH DAKOTA
------------
Minot: Blue Angels, 23-24 Jul

OHIO
----
Cleveland: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 3-5 Sep
Dayton: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 23-24 Jul
Hamilton: Golden Knights, 4-5 Jun

OKLAHOMA
--------
Muskogee: Thunderbirds, 1-2 Oct
Oklahoma City: Snowbirds & Golden Knights, 16-17 Jul

OREGON
------
Portland: Thunderbirds, 16-17 Jul

PENNSYLVANIA
------------
Avoca: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 28-29 May
Latrobe: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 3-4 Sep
NAS Willow Grove: Thunderbirds, 18-19 Jun
Williamsport: Golden Knights, 25-26 Jun

SOUTH CAROLINA
--------------
Eastover: Golden Knights, 1 May
Florence: Snowbirds, 5 Oct
MCAS Beaufort: Blue Angels, 23-24 Apr
McEntire ANGB: Thunderbirds, 1 May
Myrtle Beach: Thunderbirds, 5 Jun
Shaw AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 30 Apr

TENNESSEE
---------
Chattanooga: Blue Angels, 28-29 May
Gray: Golden Knights, 22-25 Aug
NAS Memphis: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 10-11 Sep

TEXAS
-----
Dyess AFB: Blue Angels, 19 Mar
El Paso: Snowbirds & Golden Knights, 1-2 Oct
Ft. Worth: Blue Angels, 22-23 Oct
Goodfellow AFB: Thunderbirds, 22 May
Houston: Thunderbirds, 15-16 Oct
Kelly AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 21 May
Laughlin AFB: Thunderbirds, 18 Sep
NAS Corpus Christi: Blue Angels, 14-15 May
Sheppard AFB: Thunderbirds, 17 Sep

VERMONT
-------
Burlington: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 17-18 Sep

VIRGINIA
--------
Langley AFB: Golden Knights, 6 Aug
Manassas: Golden Knights, 17-18 Sep
NAS Norfolk: Thunderbirds, 23-24 Apr
NAS Oceana: Snowbirds, 10-11 Sep

WASHINGTON
----------
Pasco: Golden Knights, 24-25 Sep
Seattle: Blue Angels, 6-7 Aug and Snowbirds, 6 Aug

WEST VIRGINIA
-------------
Beaver: Golden Knights, 6-7 Aug
Huntington: Blue Angels, 4-5 Jun

WISCONSIN
---------
Eau Claire: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 9-10 Jul

WYOMING
-------
F.E. Warren AFB: Thunderbirds, 27 Jul

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 09:12:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Airshows in NE USA

           AIRSHOWS IN THE NORTHEASTERN UNITED STATES, 1994
                       ISSUE 3, 21 MAR 94

This is the latest list of airshows in the Northeastern U.S. that I have
been able to compose.  The list is sorted by state and any military aerobatic
team appearing is noted.  Also noted is any known telephone numbers; please
call the telephone number listed for further information. I will gladly
update this list with any additions, changes and/or deletions.  Just e-mail
me at [email-masked]

REASON FOR REISSUE
------------------
1. Add New Haven, Connecticut
2. Add Anapolis and Georgetown, Maryland
3. Add Andover, Massachusetts
4. Delete Portsmouth, New Hampshire
5. Add Atlantic City, McGuire AFB  and Readington, New Jersey
6. Add Brooklyn and delete Fulton, New York
7. Add Mifflintown, Pennsylvania
8. Update information for locations previously listed

CONNECTICUT
-----------
Meriden: Aug 28, 14th Annual Police Union Airshow, Meriden Markham MAP,
  (203) 238-1911
New Haven: Sep 10-11, New Haven Airfest (203) 481-3769

DELAWARE
--------
Dover: May 7-8, Dover AFB Airshow '94, featuring USAF Thunderbirds/US Army
  Golden Knights/Six of Diamonds Flight Team, (302) 677-3379
New Castle: Oct 8-9, EAA East Coast Fly-In, Greater Wilmington Arpt featuring
  Mid Atlantic Air Museum

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
--------------------
May 19-21, Joint Services Open House/Kodak Balloon Race, featuring the USN
  Blue Angels/US Army Golden Knights, (904) 223-4362

MAINE
-----
Bingham: Sep 24-25, 25th Gadabout Gaddis Fly-In, (207) 672-4135 or
  (207) 672-3978

MARYLAND
--------
Anapolis: May 23-25, US Naval Academy, featuring USN Blue Angels,
  (301) 267-2738
Andrews AFB: May 20-21, Open House, featuring the USN Blue Angels/US Army
  Golden Knights, (301) 981-4511
College Park: Sep 17-18, College Park Air Fair featuring Mid Atlantic Air
  Museum/Laser Airshows, (301) 864-5844
Georgetown: May 27, featuring US Army Golden Knights
Middle River: Sep 17-18, Chesapeake Airshow featuring Bob & Annette Hosking,
  (410) 686-2233
Ocean City: Sep 23-26, Gathering of Heroes, (410) 213-2471

MASSACHUSETTS
-------------
Andover: May 30, featuring US Army Golden Knights
NAS South Weymouth: Jun 11-12, Air Expo '94 featuring USAF Thunderbirds/US
  Army Golden Knights/Toyota AirSports/Redtail Aviation, (617) 786-2552
Otis ANGB: Aug 13-14, Cape Cod Air Show featuring US Army Golden Knights/Six
  of Diamonds Flight Team/Clearance Speal/Larry Rutt/G-M Productions, (508)
  540-1052
Westover AFB: Aug 27-28, Great New England Air Show featuring CAF Snowbirds
  /US Army Golden Knights, (413) 557-3587

NEW HAMPSHIRE
-------------
Concord: Jun 25-26, International Air Festival featuring US Army Golden
  Knights/Red Baron Squadron/Patty Wagstaff Airshows/Redtail Aviation, (603)
  225-8747

NEW JERSEY
----------
Atlantic City: Jun 2-3 featuring US Army Golden Knights
McGuire AFB: Oct 1-2 featuring USN Blue Angels
Millville: Jun 11-12, Millville Army Airfield featuring Mid Atlantic Air
  Museum
Pittstown: Aug 5-7, Magic of Alexandria
Readington: Jul 29-31, NJ Festival of Ballooning, (908) 534-5253
Sussex: Aug 26-28, Sussex Airshow featuring Mid Atlantic Air Museum/Laser
  Airshows/French Connection/Bud Light Laser/Jim Franklin/Patty Wagstaff
  Airshows/Six of Diamonds Flight Team/Oscar Boesch/Red Baron Squadron/Yankee
  Air Force, (201) 875-7337

NEW YORK
--------
Batavia: Aug 20-21, 1941 Wings Of Eagles Airshow featuring National Warplane
  Museum/Six of Diamonds Flight Team, (716) 243-0690
Brooklyn: Jul 2-4 featuring US Army Golden Knights
Elmira: Jul 2-3, New York State Internation Air Show/Air Festival featuring
  US Army Golden Knights/Patty Wagstaff Airshows/Oscar Boesch/TORA TORA TORA/
  Shockwave, (607) 732-9898
Monticello: Jul 30-31, Sullivan County Air Show, (914) 794-2211
Plattsburgh: Jul 16-17, Team Plattsburgh Air Show (518) 565-5923
Poughkeepsie: May 13-15, Great Hudson Valley Balloon Race, (914) 462-2600
Poughkeepsie: Oct 1-2, Autumn Warbird Fly-In featuring National Warplane
  Museum, (914) 462-2600
Schenectady: Sep 10-11, Northeast Flight '94 Airshow featuring USAF
  Thunderbirds/Red Baron Squadron/Clearance Speal/Mike Goulian/Northeast
  Airshows/Larry Rutt/Redtail Aviation/Piper Aviation Museum/National
  Concession Co/G-M Productions, (518) 377-2191

PENNSYLVANIA
------------
Allentown: Sep 17, Queen City Airport Day featuring Mid Atlantic Air Museum
Avoca: May 28-29, Wilkes Barre/Scranton International Airshow, featuring USAF
  Thunderbirds/US Army Golden Knights/Mid Atlantic Air Museum/Larry Rutt,
  (717)-655-3077
Erie: Jul 16-17, Erie International Airshow featuring Mid Atlantic Air Museum/
  Larry Rutt/Redtail Aviation, (814) 833-7343
Franklin: Jun 25-26, Wings Over Venango featuring Dave Dacy Airshows/US Jet
  Team/Dan McCue/Susan Dacy/Jim Tomasino/National Warplane Museum, (814)
  432-5333
Johnstown: Aug 6-7, Cambria County Airshow '94 (814-255-2048)
Latrobe: Sep 3-4, Westmoreland County Airshow featuring USAF Thunderbirds/US
  Army Golden Knights, (412) 539-8100
Meadville: Sep 17-18, Meadville Air Expo, (814) 724-6000
Mifflintown: Jun 26, Liberty Weekend
NAS Willow Grove: Jun 18-19, Sounds of Freedom, featuring USAF Thunderbirds/
  Toyota AirSports, (215) 443-6035
Philadelphia: Jul 1-6, Confederate Air Force
Quakertown: Jun 3-5, Bucks County Balloon & Air Festival, (215) 997-9519
Toughkenamon: Jun 11-12, New Garden Airshow featuring Mid Atlantic Air
  Museum
Williamsport: Jun 25-26, Lycoming County Airshow featuring US Army Golden
  Knights/Laser Airshows/Larry Rutt, (717) 322-2426

RHODE ISLAND
------------
North Kingstown: Jun 4-5, Rhode Island National Guard Open House featuring
  Redtail Aviation/Larry Rutt, (401) 886-1423

VERMONT
-------
Burlington: Sep 17-18, Burlington International Charity Airshow featuring USN
  Blue Angels/US Army Golden Knights, (802) 496-3473

VIRGINIA
--------
Langley AFB: Aug 6, IFW Community Appreciation Day featuring US Army Golden
  Knights
Manassas: Sep 17-18, Manassas Air Show Classic '94 featuring US Army Golden
  Knights, (703) 361-0575
NAS Norfolk: Apr 23-24, International Azalea Festival featuring USAF
  Thunderbirds/Bob & Annette Hosking/Dave Dacy Airshows, (804) 445-4774
NAS Oceana: Sep 10-11, Open House featuring CAF Snowbirds/Sky Hawks/Shockwave/
  French Connection/Formula Air Racing Assoc/USPA Freedom Team, (804) 433-3131
Norfolk: Jul 16-17, Town Point Air Show "Wings Over Water", (804) 627-7809

WEST VIRGINIA
-------------
Beckley: Aug 6-7, Raleigh County Air Fair featuring US Army Golden Knights/
  Bob & Annette Hosking, (304) 255-0476
Charleston: Sep 10-11, Wings Over Charleston
Huntington: Jun 4-5, Tri-State Anti Drug Airshow featuring USN Blue Angels
  (614-377-9989)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 09:24:04 EDT
From:    RICHARD KING <[email-masked]>
Subject: Addr: Re:TAC:Cooperation of Forces

I agree with Sidney. I have been reading about the British
SOE work in France (Buckmaster's THEY FOUGHT ALONE) and
IN SEARCH OF THE MAQUIS (Kedward) and feel if anything the SOE
had to prove itself as a valid military organization (and apparently
considered itself a full military unit) with other military
organizations in Britain (there could have been competition
for funding here, but certainly not betrayal to the enemy).
    However, what may have brought the betrayal thread up is
that I have run across incidents where members of the Maquis
(some/many of who may have been communist) were supposed to have
been betrayed to the Gestapo by DeGaul and his staff in London.
Perhaps anyone who DeGaul viewed as a threat would have been
leaked to the Gestapo. These events, of course, would be
utterly shameful, if true. I'll try and remember where I heard this.
    Ted Allbeury (a British espionage novelist--usually really
good) was in the Intelligence Corps in France, and I think his
best books concern this period of the war. He has a novel (TIME
WITHOUT SHADOWS) that investigates a charge that Britain sacrificed
a spy network in France to placate Russia (I think it had to do with
the desire by Russia to see more action in France to keep German
troops busy there instead of more being sent to the Russian Front).
I think Allebeury's work is not based on something he dreamed up,
but based on his personal experiences (these are works of fiction
I'm talking about, not nonfiction).
     From my readings I gather the resistance movement in France
is a very complex affair and we should avoid generalizations.
There were anticommunists who were loyal members of a Maquis
cell (even leading cells), and communists who were loyal to
their noncommunist units.
     I need to read more about this. On my reading list are
(RESISTANCE IN VICHY FRANCE: A STUDY OF IDEAS AND MOTIVATION,
Kedward; SECRET WAR: THE STORY OF SOE, BRITAIN'S WARTIME
SABOTAGE ORGANISATION, West; SOE: AN OUTLINE HISTORY OF THE
SPECIAL OPERATIONS EXECUTIVE, 1940-46, Foot). If anyone wants
to discuss this further, I would like to hear what you have
to say.
     I also am interested in Ted Allbeury's career and writings,
if any has any information about him or wants to discuss him.
**********************************************************
Richard L. King, Reference Librarian, Vincennes (IN) Univ.
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 09:28:00 EST
From:    Don Bowden <[email-masked]>
Subject: command cooperation between allies

        I believe Emmanuel Gustin mentioned difficulties between the American
and French forces in the 6th Army group in Alsace/Colmar. I have been reading
about this period since my father was in one of the American divisions involved
in the campaign. This is probably a fine point, but Devers and his French
commanders seemed to get along reasonably well. The big blow up came when
Eisenhower ordered the 7th Army to withdraw during the Ardennes offensive to
shorten their lines (so units could be sent north). This would have opened
up Strasbourg to German reoccupation (and, no doubt, brutal reprisals). The
French were not consulted and DeGaulle went ballistic ordering French troops]
to occupy the city and hold it regardless of what the Americans did. Devers
himself wasn't enthusiastic about retreating since he didn't want to have to
recapture the same ground all over again.
        There seems to have been at least as much or more friction within
the French forces. LeClerc refused to serve under French officers-- he had
been on the run with a death sentence on his head when other French generals
were in the Vichy Army sitting out the war. American General Patch was happy
to have him in the Seventh Army since LeClerc's armoured division was his
most seasoned armored division.
        Much of this comes from "Riviera to the Rhine" which is a fascinating
book. I had a couple of questions for folks in regard to the longstanding
perception among some that the German Army was operationally superior. One
comment was to the affect that one of the SS Divisions facing the French was
was of very low combat quality (I believe it was the 30th Div.). Another
discussion was about the German Alsace offensive toward the Saverne gap.
The American commanders were totally unimpressed by the German effort
which they considered poorly planned, coordinated and executed. This
offensive was under the XIII(?) SS Corps which went through numerous
division commanders trying to find someone who knew what they were doing.
A final question: is there a biographical reference for American General
officers. The commander of my father's division was Gen. Haffner who was
replaced by Anthony McAuliffe in January. It seemed Haffner had done a good
job, so I was wondering what happened to him. Also I was wondering what
happened to Lucian Truscott, who was an effective combat commander, but
doesn't seem to have gotten along with Eisenhower. Let me know if there
is anywhere I can follow up these stories.
Don Bowden
Winston-Salem, NC

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 09:32:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: N AMERICAN MILITARY AIRSHOWS SKEDS

#########################################################################
#########################################################################
##                                                                     ##
##  SORRY TO SEND YOU THIS SCHEDULE TWICE IN ONE DAY BUT I JUST CALLED ##
##  McGUIRE AFB, NJ AND THERE IS A CHANGE IN THE BLUE ANGELS SCHEDULE  ##
##  THAT I WANT TO GET OUT.  PLEASE IGNORE ISSUE 5 OF THIS DOCUMENT    ##
##  SENT ON 22 MAR.                                                    ##
##                                                                     ##
#########################################################################
#########################################################################

          NORTH AMERICAN MILITARY AEROBATIC TEAM SCHEDULE, 1994
                           ISSUE 6, 22 MAR 94

The following is the combined schedules for the North American military
aerobatic teams for the 1994 show season and includes schedules for shows
in:

  Canada
  Japan
  Korea
  Malaysia
  Singapore
  Thailand
  United States

This list is sorted by country and Province and State.  The four teams
covered in this post are:

  Canadian Armed Forces Snowbirds
  U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds
  U.S. Army Golden Knights
  U.S. Navy Blue Angels

Any additions, corrections, etc. would be appreciated.  Please e-mail them
to me at [email-masked].

REASON FOR REISSUE
  1. Delete show at NAS Atlanta, Georgia on 1-2 Oct
  2. Add show at McGuire AFB, New Jersey on 1-2 Oct.

I. CANADA
---------

ALBERTA
-------
Edmonton: Snowbirds, 21-22 May
Lethbridge: Golden Knights, 20-21 Aug
Peace River: Snowbirds, 26 Jul
Slave Lake: Snowbirds, 10 May

BRITISH COLUMBIA
----------------
Abbotsford: Snowbirds, 12-14 Aug and Blue Angels, 13-14 Aug
Comox: Snowbirds, 7 Aug
Fort Nelson: Snowbirds, 12 May
Kelowna: Snowbirds, 18 May
Penticton: Snowbirds, 28 Jul
Prince George: Snowbirds, 14-15 May
Sandspit: Snowbirds, 5 May
Terrace: Snowbirds, 3 May
Vanderhoff: Snowbirds, 23-24 Jul
Victoria: Snowbirds, 17 Aug

MANITOBA
--------
Grand Beach: Snowbirds, 8 Jul
St Andrews (Winnipeg): Snowbirds, 30-31 Jul

NEW BRUNSWICK
-------------
Chatham: Snowbirds, 28 May
Shediac: Snowbirds, 24 Aug

NORTHWEST TERRITORY
-------------------
CFS Yellowknife: Snowbirds, 1 May

NOVA SCOTIA
-----------
Greenwood: Snowbirds, 29 May
Shearwater: Snowbirds, 17-18 Sep

ONTARIO
-------
Cobden: Snowbirds, 31 May
Hamilton: Snowbirds, 18-19 Jun
London: Snowbirds, 4-5 Jun
Ottawa: Snowbirds, 2-3 Jul
Parry Sound: Snowbirds, 28 Jun
Toronto: Snowbirds, 3-5 Sep
Trenton: Snowbirds, 25-26 Jun

QUEBEC
------
Bagotville: Snowbirds, 11-12 Jun
Gaspe: Snowbirds, 7 Sep
Montmagny: Snowbirds, 15 Jun
Rimouski: Snowbirds, 9 Jun
St George De Beauce: Snowbirds, 5 Jul
St Jean: Snowbirds, 20 Aug
Sept-Iles: Snowbirds, 30 Aug
Sherbrooke: Snowbirds, 21 Aug
Thetford Mines: Snowbirds, 6 Jul
Val D'Or: Snowbirds, 7 Jun

SASKATCHEWAN
------------
Moose Jaw: Snowbirds, 29 Apr, 9-10 Jul and 14 Oct

YUKON TERRITORY
---------------
Whitehorse: Snowbirds, 8 May

II. JAPAN
---------
Kadena AB (Okinawa): Thunderbirds, 14 Aug
Misawa: Thunderbirds, 10 Aug

III. KOREA
----------
Osan AB: Thunderbirds, 13 Aug

IV. MALAYSIA
------------
??: Thunderbirds, 20 Aug

V. SINGAPORE
------------
??: Thunderbirds, 23 Aug

VI. THAILAND
------------
??: Thunderbirds, 18 Aug

VII. UNITED STATES
------------------

ALASKA
------
Elmendorf AFB: Thunderbirds 6 Aug

ALABAMA
-------
Anniston: Golden Knights, 15-16 Oct

ARIZONA
-------
Davis-Monthan AFB: Golden Knights, 22 Oct
Glendale: Thunderbirds, 5-6 Nov
Luke AFB: Blue Angels, 16 Apr
Mesa: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 19-20 Mar

ARKANSAS
--------
Little Rock AFB: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 26-27 Mar
Little Rock: Snowbirds, 28 Sep

CALIFORNIA
----------
Beale AFB: Golden Knights, 14-15 May
Castle AFB: Golden Knights, 8 Oct and Thunderbirds, 9 Oct
Miramar: Blue Angels, 19-21 Aug
MCAS El Toro: Blue Angels, 29 Apr-1 May
NAF El Centro: Blue Angels, 12 Mar
NAS Lemoore: Thunderbirds, 14-15 May
Redding: Thunderbirds, 25-26 Jun
Salinas: Blue Angels, 15-16 Oct
San Francisco: Blue Angels, 8-9 Oct
Travis AFB: Thunderbirds, 8 Oct
Ukiah: Golden Knights, 11-12 Jun
Van Nuys: Golden Knights, 20-21 Aug

COLORADO
--------
Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs: Thunderbirds, 1 Jun
Broomfield: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 30-31 Jul
Sterling: Golden Knights, 18 Jun

DELAWARE
--------
Dover AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 7-8 May

DISTRICT OF COLUMBA
-------------------
Washington: Golden Knights, 20-22 May

FLORIDA
-------
Daytona: Golden Knights, 7-8 May
Kissimmee: Snowbirds, 8-9 Oct
MacDill AFB: Thunderbirds, 22-27 Mar
NAS Jacksonville: Blue Angels, 24-25 Sep
NAS Pensacola: Blue Angels, 11-12 Nov
Patrick AFB: Golden Knights, 13 Nov
Pensacola Beach: Blue Angels, 16 Jul
Punta Gorda: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 9-10 Apr
Sanford: Thunderbirds, 29-30 Oct
Tyndall AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 16 Apr

GEORGIA
-------
Ft. Stewart: Golden Knights, 28 Jun
Robins AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 22-23 Oct

HAWAII
------
NAS Barbers Point: Thunderbirds, 27 Aug

IDAHO
-----
Lewiston: Snowbirds, 21 Jul

ILLINOIS
--------
Chicago: Blue Angels, 27-28 Aug
Dekalb: Golden Knights, 9-10 Jul
Springfield: Blue Angels, 30-31 Jul
West Chicago: Golden Knights, 23-24 Jul

INDIANA
-------
Elkhart: Golden Knights, 3-5 Jun

IOWA
----
Davenport: Blue Angels, 25-26 Jun
Dubuque: Snowbirds, 21 Sep
Sioux City: Golden Knights, 29-31 Jul

KANSAS
------
McConnell AFB: Blue Angels, 18-19 Jun

KENTUCKY
--------
Bowling Green: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 24-25 Sep

LOUISIANA
---------
Barksdale AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 17 Apr
Hammond: Golden Knights, 30-31 Apr and 1 May
Lake Charles: Thunderbirds, 12-13 Nov
NAS New Orleans: Blue Angels, 29-30 Oct

MARYLAND
--------
Andrews AFB: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 20-21 May
Georgetown: Golden Knights, 27 May
U.S. Naval Academy, Annapolis: Blue Angels, 23-25 May

MASSACHUSETTS
-------------
Andover: Golden Knights, 30 May
NAS South Weymouth: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 11-12 Jun
Otis ANGB: Golden Knights, 13-14 Aug
Westover AFB: Snowbirds & Golden Knights, 27-28 Aug

MICHIGAN
--------
Battle Creek: Thunderbirds, 4 Jul
K.I. Sawyer AFB: Thunderbirds, 2 Jul
Muskegon: Golden Knights, 16-17 Jul
Selfridge ANGB: Blue Angels, 11-12 Jun
Traverse City: Blue Angels, 2-3 Jul

MINNESOTA
---------
Alexandria: Golden Knights, 13-14 Aug

MISSOURI
--------
Columbia: Golden Knights, 28-29 May
St Louis: Snowbirds, 24-25 Sep

NEVADA
------
Nellis AFB: Thunderbirds, 20 Nov

NEW HAMPSHIRE
-------------
Concord: Golden Knights, 25-26 Jun

NEW JERSEY
----------
Atlantic City: Golden Knights, 2-3 Jun
McGuire AFB: Blue Angels, 1-2 Oct

NEW MEXICO
----------
Cannon AFB: Golden Knights, 27 Aug
Roswell: Blue Angels, 7-8 May
Tucumcari: Golden Knights, 8 Oct

NEW YORK
--------
Brooklyn: Golden Knights, 2-4 Jul
Elmira: Golden Knights, 2-3 Jul
Scotia: Thunderbirds, 10-11 Sep

NORTH CAROLINA
--------------
Fayetteville: Golden Knights, 13 Sep
Ft. Bragg: Golden Knights, 4 Jul
MCAS New River: Golden Knights, 23 Apr
Morganton: Golden Knights, 8 Oct
Pope AFB: Golden Knights, 23 Apr
Wilmington: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 9-10 Apr

NORTH DAKOTA
------------
Minot: Blue Angels, 23-24 Jul

OHIO
----
Cleveland: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 3-5 Sep
Dayton: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 23-24 Jul
Hamilton: Golden Knights, 4-5 Jun

OKLAHOMA
--------
Muskogee: Thunderbirds, 1-2 Oct
Oklahoma City: Snowbirds & Golden Knights, 16-17 Jul

OREGON
------
Portland: Thunderbirds, 16-17 Jul

PENNSYLVANIA
------------
Avoca: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 28-29 May
Latrobe: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 3-4 Sep
NAS Willow Grove: Thunderbirds, 18-19 Jun
Williamsport: Golden Knights, 25-26 Jun

SOUTH CAROLINA
--------------
Eastover: Golden Knights, 1 May
Florence: Snowbirds, 5 Oct
MCAS Beaufort: Blue Angels, 23-24 Apr
McEntire ANGB: Thunderbirds, 1 May
Myrtle Beach: Thunderbirds, 5 Jun
Shaw AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 30 Apr

TENNESSEE
---------
Chattanooga: Blue Angels, 28-29 May
Gray: Golden Knights, 22-25 Aug
NAS Memphis: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 10-11 Sep

TEXAS
-----
Dyess AFB: Blue Angels, 19 Mar
El Paso: Snowbirds & Golden Knights, 1-2 Oct
Ft. Worth: Blue Angels, 22-23 Oct
Goodfellow AFB: Thunderbirds, 22 May
Houston: Thunderbirds, 15-16 Oct
Kelly AFB: Thunderbirds & Golden Knights, 21 May
Laughlin AFB: Thunderbirds, 18 Sep
NAS Corpus Christi: Blue Angels, 14-15 May
Sheppard AFB: Thunderbirds, 17 Sep

VERMONT
-------
Burlington: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 17-18 Sep

VIRGINIA
--------
Langley AFB: Golden Knights, 6 Aug
Manassas: Golden Knights, 17-18 Sep
NAS Norfolk: Thunderbirds, 23-24 Apr
NAS Oceana: Snowbirds, 10-11 Sep

WASHINGTON
----------
Pasco: Golden Knights, 24-25 Sep
Seattle: Blue Angels, 6-7 Aug and Snowbirds, 6 Aug

WEST VIRGINIA
-------------
Beaver: Golden Knights, 6-7 Aug
Huntington: Blue Angels, 4-5 Jun

WISCONSIN
---------
Eau Claire: Blue Angels & Golden Knights, 9-10 Jul

WYOMING
-------
F.E. Warren AFB: Thunderbirds, 27 Jul

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 10:46:23 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Ike's prewar carreer

In your message you write:
>Dan,
>
>Thanks for your info, it would have been intersting to see that film.
>I didn't know he had been working with Patton before Europe. Though
>I should have at least suspected for it did strike me how good
>friends they had already been when Patton arrived in London. Maybe
>this scene casts a light on the later events in the European Theater,
>don't you think?
>
>Attila  [email-masked]
>
Attila,
Listening to Carlo D'Este at the Eisenhower Symposium in
January reading from his upcoming book on Eisenhower's and
Patton's interwar years, they were very good friends.  Patton
was older, and usually one rank higher than Ike.  Their wives
were also close.

They spent quite a bit of time discussing armor tactics when
they were stationed together.  The relationship seemed to last
right up to the war.

I did not get the name of D'Este's new book, but if you are
interested, watch for it.

Jim Irwin
Defense Personnel Support Center
Philadelphia PA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:16:53 -0500
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: command cooperation between allies

Don Bowden writes:
> The big blow up came when Eisenhower ordered the 7th Army to withdraw
> during the Ardennes offensive to shorten their lines (so units could be
> sent north).

Unlike the Ardennes fiasco, intel had provided reasonable warning of the
coming Nordwind attack. Ike prefered not to fight in Alsace [or at least
not to have to send reinforcements there] and so ordered Devers to move
US 7th Army to better defensive positions in the Vosges.

> This would have opened up Strasbourg to German reoccupation
> (and, no doubt, brutal reprisals). The French were not consulted and
> DeGaulle went ballistic ordering French troops to occupy the city and
> hold it regardless of what the Americans did. Devers himself wasn't
> enthusiastic about retreating since he didn't want to have to recapture
> the same ground all over again.

A clarification: Alsace had been annexed by the Germans (again). Alsatians
which were anti-German and had welcomed the Allies were sure to be treated
as traitors by the Germans.

> I had a couple of questions for folks in regard to the longstanding
> perception among some that the German Army was operationally superior.
> One comment was to the affect that one of the SS Divisions facing the
> French was was of very low combat quality (I believe it was the 30th Div.).

This was indeed a poor quality division, composed primarily of Russians.
They mutinied at least once, killing their German guards. It was poorly
equipped (except the recon bn), poorly trained, poorly motivated, etc.
It was so battered by the Oct/Nov fighting (and unreliable) that the div
was withdrawn to the Swiss border in Dec (when the Germans in Alsace were
desperate for troops!). In January the div was broken up, with about half
the men going to Vlassov's army.

> Another  discussion was about the German Alsace offensive toward the
> Saverne gap. The American commanders were totally unimpressed by the
> German effort which they considered poorly planned, coordinated and
> executed. This offensive was under the XIII(?) SS Corps which went
> through numerous division commanders trying to find someone who knew
> what they were doing.

Right. The problem was primarily due to 17SS PG div having been rebuilt
the day before! On Dec 30/31 they absorded the SS Pz Lehr training regt.
The div had been reduced from 15000 to 4000 men in the Sep-Dec 1944
fighting and desperately needed re-fitting and a break from combat. They
got one but not the other. The div was rushed back into combat (actually
part of it never left the front!) with a lot of under-trained replacements
and without much cohesion. To make matters worse, the div commander had
the misfortune to get himself captured (or killed...I forget) on the
first day of the Nordwind offensive, throwing div command into a game of
music chairs (they went thru something like 3 diferent div commanders in
a week!).

Also 17SS siv was not really a Panzer Grenadier unit...they lacked much
transport...mostly leg mobile. And the Panzer bn had been reduced to a
weak company (10 tanks?). The got some more trucks and tanks and StGs
when they absorbed the Pz Lehr unit, but still the div was basically
a VG div with a tank/StG bn and two inf regts of 2 bns each.

XIII SS Corps attacked with 17SS, 36 VG, and part of 19VG divs in the
region between the Sarre river (west) and Vosges (east). This is
precisely where Devers/Patch/Haislip were expecting the Nordwind attack
and had prepared thier defenses. The Nordwind attack here went nowhere
(the Germans barely dented the line...a mile or two here and there) and
was called off by Jan 5. IMO the attack was hopeless given the state and
strength of US and German forces engaged.

> Also I was wondering what happened to Lucian Truscott

Hmmm, I forget, but I know he published his memoirs..._Combat Command_?
I think he was re-assigned/promoted out of his job with 6th AG in Sept
or Oct 1944. Whatever, his book was republished within the last decade
so it shouldn't be too hard to find.

Sorry, I hadn't know about Haffner. But there was a German brigade task
force commander in the Colmar Pocket by that name...maybe he jumped sides?
 :^)

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Tue Mar 22 1994 ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 21 Mar 1994 19:00:26 -0230
From:    OLAF <[email-masked]>
Subject: U-boat attack on St. John's, Nfld

Jim Benn posted a query concerning a German torpedo attack on St.
John's harbour during World War II. St. John's was used by Allied
naval forces for repair, refuelling, R&R, etc. The harbour is
nearly landlocked and too small for convoy purposes, but it was
admirably located and naturally protected for re-fuelling and as
a destination for any merchant vessels damaged or otherwise
incapacitated. The harbour entrance is appropriately called "The
Narrows" because of its narrow width, and it was protected by
torpedo nets and defence batteries at either side of its seaward
end. On 3 March, 1941, the men assigned to the battery on the
south side were startled by an explosion to sent a sheet of spray
a hundred feet into the air. Moments later, a second explosion
occurred on the other side of the entrance. At first, it was
thought that an enemy surface raider was nearby and had lobbed a
couple of shells at St. John's. It was soon figured out, however,
that both explosions had been caused by torpedoes launched by a
German U-boat. The target was apparently the TERRA NOVA, and old
sealing steamer which had entered the Narrows shortly before the
attack. It was assumed that the intent was to sink the steamer in
the Narrows thereby closing the Narrows to any traffic in or out,
at least until it could be cleared. The torpedoes never
penetrated the harbour.

Olaf Janzen                      Tel: (709) 637-6282
Department of History            FAX: (709) 639-8125
Sir Wilfred Grenfell College     e-mail: [email-masked]
Corner Brook, Newfoundland
Canada
A2H 6P9

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 12:03:25 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Ike's prewar carreer

Hello, Jim!

I was just curious. I have one question for you, if you don't mind.

> Listening to Carlo D'Este at the Eisenhower Symposium in
> January reading from his upcoming book on Eisenhower's and
> Patton's interwar years, they were very good friends.  Patton
> was older, and usually one rank higher than Ike.  Their wives
> were also close.

    Do you know if there was a "Proceedings" published after the
close of that Eisenhower symposium? I would love to get a copy, if
there was.

    Thank you very much.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 12:06:57 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: command cooperation between allies

Hello, Don!

Great post! You might try looking through Russell F. Weighley's book
"Eisenhower's Lieutenants". You might find what you are looking for
there.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 13:11:17 -0500
From:    Jim Broussard <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ike & Alsace

Well, folks---

        It would seem from what is being said about the situation on the
Alsace front that failure to exploit German weakness here is a really serious
criticism of Ike's generalship.

        I'm one of these guys who never really paid much attention to that
part of the front.  I just figured it was to give the French something to do
so they could claim they were part of the war effort & that nobody expected
anything to happen down at that end.

        But now it appears that there was a real opportunity that Ike
basically just ignored.  Was there any criticism of him at the time for this?
I forget what he says about this in Crusade in Europe, but I guess not much.

        Any thoughts?  Or how about a contest for Ike's most glaring strategic
mistake?  And his most brilliant strategic coup?

        Jim Broussard

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:39:10 EST
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Foo Fighters, Secret Weapons, etc.

Yesterday, I was discussing with a friend about secret german weapons of
WW-II. He's now investigating about this topic because he's about to write
an article for a magazine. He told me many stories about some unknown weapons
used or tested by the germans during late war. He promised to give me his
sources. Before that, I'm unable to confirm any of this. I'm posting what
I heard anyway:

My friend said that there were some little devices, with saucer or spherical
shapes, that were launched either from ground (rocket launched) or from an
airplane. These devices were expendable. I don't know the propulsion system,
but it may be an electric motor. These devices have some little system
inside, and some kind of gas, that give them a strange red-orange bright
at night, and make them appear to be much bigger. They fly near allied bombers
and the strange system inside these devices was intended to get the radar
frequency of the bomber to neutralize the radar. They may be remote controlled
or auto-piloted. The could fly for about 40 minutes, and then, when the
energy is gone, they fall like a rock. These devices were secret weapons,
and neither the german pilots knew about them. I was told that both allied
and germans have seen these objects (the german pilots found that these objects
were completely inoffensive to them). They were called also "fireballs" in
german. (I don't know the exact word. It could be "Feuerball" or something
like this. German friends, please correct me). This was the way the german
pilots called them. There could be explosive versions of these devices.

This reminds me that story posted before, about a B-29 that was followed by
a strange bright orange ball until it dissapeared. Could be one of these
devices?

I've heard before about some flying saucer designs for the Luftwaffe.
My friend told me that these desings were managed by SS, and neither
Hitler nor the "normal" german pilots did have knowledge about these
designs. He told me that at leats one prototype was flown. I hope he
will give me his sources to confirm this. This circular wing was the
next step after the flying wing (Horten designs, Ho-IX, Go-229). The
designer of the circular wing is unknown for me and for my friend.

The saucer design consisted in a circular airfraft, with the cockpit
located at the center. It had vertical take-off engines, and horizontal
engines that made the aircraft rotate while the cockpit stands in the
same position. It sounds strange, and I hope I could get more informa-
tion to confirm or not this.

Another secret weapon he mentioned was a "Gas Beam". It consisted in a
cannon, that could be carried by a heavy fighter like a Ju-88. The
ammunition consisted in a compressed-to-solid gas (I don't know what
kind of gas), that is fired against allied bombers. The cannon was
intended to be installed on the top of the fighter, to fire upwards.
The speed maintains the semi-solid stage, but when the gas bullet hits
the bomber, it turns into plasma and explodes, destroying the bomber.
I don't know if it was ever designed or tested. Could be it possible
to build a weapon like this?

Please, send any comments about this. If you have heard something like
this, please post it.

Have a nice day,

Jorge

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 13:46:45 EST
From:    Bill Vasilion <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ike

          Well one of his most glaring was allowing the russians to split
         Germany into two countries and sharing berlin. The cold war may
          have not been so frigid if he had not allowed the russians
         to split Berlin with us.

                    well just my say...........bill [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 20:25:47 +0100
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: MISTREATMENT OF GERMAN POWS

  Oslo, March 22.  I want to thank those who have commented on my message about
the allegations regarding allied treatment of German POWs.  Since I have no
first hand knowledge of the conditions in these camps or why they were as they
were, I will not comment on this.
  I would, however, like to note how angry we were by the end of the war.  As my
letters to my parents indicate, once we crossed the Rhine we lost all patience
with the Germans and became very angry.  It was clear the Germans were defeated,
but they kept on fighting.
  Our last major engagement was only a couple of weeks before the end of the
war, when we destroyed the town of Ellwangen with an artillery bombardment that
lasted all night.  (When we get to the anniversary, I plan to tell this story.)
Ellwangen is just north-west of Munich.
  A few days after this, I saw a concentration camp.  Again, I plan to enter the
letter I wrote home on the anniversary.  Suffice to say, I was very angry
at the Germans and disinclined to be concerned about any suffering they might be
feeling.
  Another thing I can certify was that the Germans were surrendering in
such great numbers that we could not cope with them.  As we moved along in our
vehicles, we simply motioned to them to head toward the rear.
   At the same time, we were leaning on our men to treat the German civilians
decently.  Soon after the war, one of my duties was to defend a man charged with
rape.  He got fifteen years.
   I have no objection to scholars today doing research and bringing into the
open the facts about what happened.  On the contrary, I think it is healthy if
these things are aired.
   At the same time, one should keep in mind that May 8, 1945 ended a brutal
war, in which many terrible things happened. Furthermore, one should not forget
that Hitler launched this war - with enthusiastic support from most Germans as
long as thing were going well.
   Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 14:43:27 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Foo Fighters, Secret Weapons, etc.

A funky plane that actually flew for the Germans was an asymetric plane,
it's left wing was much shorter than the right one!!  :)
I wouldn't believe it but the source I have even has a picture of it!
Tomorrow I'll bring in the source info and also the designation of the
plane and any further information I can find(I write this at school,
and have to commute) Talk about it tomorrow!

                        John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 14:47:47 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ike

                I would just like to know if this was actually Ike's
        decision, or was it a political decision.  From what I can gather
        from his Crusade, and also from the Diary of his aid, I don't
        her anything about him making this decision by himself.  Actually
        allowing Market-Garden to go ahead, and not doing more to get rid
        of Montgomery I rank as his two biggest blunders, not that he could
        have gotten ride of Monty.  too bad (I'm not anti-British, I just
        don't like Monty, his tactics/strategy/etc, Nelson, now there
        was a hero :)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:59:07 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Addr: Re:TAC:Cooperation of Forces

Hello, again.
Yes, Ted Albury is a fine writer of espionage fiction.  *Fiction*.
It amuses me but also exasperates me how fictional effusions are
solmenly discussed as though the imaginary scenarios were factual.
They are *stories*. Made up. Entertainments.
It is a bit disconcerting to see credulous confusion of fiction
with fact is often discussed here, on a purportedly "history" list.
        Albury's personal life. Colorful. as you alluded. The only
details I recall were that he served in the Intelligence Corps, with
a stint in Field Security Police (British army, of course), and
must have done a good job in the trade to reach LtCol by war's end.
He subsequently was in advertising and radio, I believe, before
becoming a full-time writer of spy fiction. The single incident in
Albury's life that haunts me, is that his little daughter disappeared
mysteriously from their front garden, years ago. Never solved. What
a tragedy for Ted Albury...

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 14:04:46 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ike

Hello, Bill!

>           Well one of his most glaring was allowing the russians
to split
>          Germany into two countries and sharing berlin. The cold war may
>           have not been so frigid if he had not allowed the russians
>          to split Berlin with us.
>

    I would have one or two comments to make to your note. Firstly,
Ike didn't have the say-so about what could and  couldn't be done
about the division of Germany. Even if Ike had been taken Berlin, and
there is nothing to support the idea that our casualties would have
been any less than the Russians, he would have had to withdraw forces
to an already established demarcation line, thus allowing the
Russians to occupy what was already decided and had already been
agreed upon. The same thing that happened after the Russians entered
an area would have happened anyway, if and when the Americans and her
Allies had pulled out of those areas scheduled to be handed over to
the Russians.

    The cold war would have happened anyway, given the paranoid
nature of Stalin who had to maintain a war-like atmosphere in Russia,
and in the buffer states occupied by the Red Army to focus attention
away from economic problems faced by those countries at the end of
the war. The Cold War was no accident, and it would have happened
anyway and it would have been just as frigid.

    Thanks for allowing my thoughts.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 21:20:17 +0100
From:    Hans Steketee <[email-masked]>
Subject: Blitzkrieg France 1940

Does anyone know whether Flak-regiments attached to German Panzer
divisions during the 1940 Blitzkrieg campaign in France were equiped with
so called Horchgerate _  listening devices to measure range, azimuth and
bearing of enemy aircraft - for fire control purposes?

Hans Steketee
Defense editor, NRC Handelsblad, Rotterdam, the Netherlands

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 15:29:26 EST
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: MISTREATMENT OF GERMAN POWS

John,

Good post.  I have heard the same from other Infantry veterans
I have spoken with.

Bear

Barrett F. Lowe               RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, West Point  (e-mail:  [email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 13:05:52 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Addr: Re:TAC:Cooperation of Forces

May I recommend an addition to your reading-list, or even a new
acquisition for the Vincennes Library...
        CANADIANS BEHIND ENEMY LINES, 1939-1945,
                by Roy MacLaren, University of British Columbia Press, 1981.
Perhaps a lesser-known aspect to American readers; tells about the two
hundred or so Canadians who served with Special Operations Executive in
Europe and the Far East.
Excellently researched. I'm sure you would enjoy it.
Regards.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 12:50:41 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Foo Fighters, Secret Weapons, etc.

That Luftwaffe plane with one wing shorter than the other...
One of the Blohm & Voss a/c, I think.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 17:40:52 -0500
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Ike's prewar carreer

Terry,

I have temporarily lost my e-mail reader that gives the address
of the sender, so I'll have to send this to the list.

My apologies to all of you.

What is a "Proceedings?"  A form of formal written acount of
the Symposium?  Please explain further, and I will check out
with Valley Forge Military Academy and Junior College about
it.  Thanks for your query.

Jim Irwin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 15:55:24 EST
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Foo Fighters, Secret Weapons, etc.

> A funky plane that actually flew for the Germans was an asymetric plane,
> it's left wing was much shorter than the right one!!  :)

Maybe you are talking about the Blohm und Voss Bv-141. This is the only
german asymetric plane I know from WW-II. It was a reconnaissance aircraft.
It consisted in a fuselage, that supported the single engine, located on
the left side of the aircraft, and the cockpit, located on the right side.
The cockpit was similar to that on the Focke-Wulf Fw-189 Uhu. The Bv-141
was built in limited quantities, in two versions: A and B. The main difference
between both versions was the stabilizer configuration. Version A had a
conventional stabilizer, while version B had the full stabilizer on the
left side, to give a better field of fire to the rear gunner. It was a very
interesting aircraft. I have an 1/72 scale model of it (from Airfix).

Have a nice day,

Jorge

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 15:37:42 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Foo Fighters, Secret Weapons, etc.

>
> Yesterday, I was discussing with a friend about secret german weapons of
> WW-II. He's now investigating about this topic because he's about to write
> an article for a magazine. He told me many stories about some unknown weapons
> used or tested by the germans during late war. He promised to give me his
> sources. Before that, I'm unable to confirm any of this. I'm posting what
> I heard anyway:
>
> My friend said that there were some little devices, with saucer or spherical
> shapes, that were launched either from ground (rocket launched) or from an
> airplane. These devices were expendable. I don't know the propulsion system,
> but it may be an electric motor. These devices have some little system

Actually, to my knowledge NO satisfactory explanation of the "foo fighters" or
"foo balls" has ever been given.

Those who believe in extraterrestrial visitation claim that there were remote
sensing devices used to collect information on the war.  Accepting the central
premise, such a device would be invaluable for that purpose.

And of course the idea that someone wouldn't be interested in the largest and
most destructive war to date is at least as far fetched as that of flying
saucers.

Regardless of where they actually WERE from, the fact that they were seen in
the Pacific theater by both Allied and Japanese pilots tends to discount the
theory of a German origin.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 22 Mar 1994 19:19:00 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Foo Fighters, Secret Weapons, etc.

The New York Times published a picture of the asymetrical German plane
in early 1942. When I saw the picture I immediately asked the list
if it was hoax and was disabused of that idea. Very weird plane.

Larry J

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 01:00:10 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Foo Fighters, Secret Weapons, etc.

On Tue, 22 Mar 1994, Jorge Merino wrote:

> The cockpit was similar to that on the Focke-Wulf Fw-189 Uhu. The Bv-141
> was built in limited quantities, in two versions: A and B. The main difference
> between both versions was the stabilizer configuration. Version A had a
> conventional stabilizer, while version B had the full stabilizer on the
> left side, to give a better field of fire to the rear gunner. It was a very

Actually, the Bv 141B model was far more powerful and heavier than the A
model. The RLM had rejected the A model as underpowered. Unfortunately the
handling suffered; the A model had good handling, but the B was not
received very well.

As an aside into asymmetric aircraft: In China a DC-3 with a damaged
wing was once repaired by using a DC-2 wing. Some photographs of this
rather unelegant construction, called 'DC-2 1/2', exist as proof of this
story. I don't know whether it flew well....

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 01:32:38 +0100
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: command cooperation between allies

On Tue, 22 Mar 1994, Don Bowden wrote:

>         I believe Emmanuel Gustin mentioned difficulties between the American
> and French forces in the 6th Army group in Alsace/Colmar. I have been reading

I must admit that I was actually thinking of a conflict that de Lattre had
with Gerow, when the former sent his units on the way to Paris without
informing or asking the latter. It seems that I was thinking of the wrong
generals... de Lattre was ordered to stop it, but just continued, and was
rescued by a decision from Eisenhower that it was time to move on to Paris
and to have the French play the largest role in it. Paris was a source of
conflict, because de Gaulle was suspicious that the Americans (who were
never too fond of him) were denying him 'his' capital.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Mar 1994 00:42:31 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: BV-141, The strange asymmetric plane

    Hey all

    The only plane I can find that would "have one wing shorter than the
other" is the Blohm und Voss BV-141. I have several photos of it and some
specs as well. It was designed by Dr.-Ing Richard Vogt to be an short-range
reconaissance plane with army co-operation in mind. The "pilot workstation"
was therefore moved "out of" the plane body and the body itself moved to
the left on the wing. This allowed for an outstanding all around vision for
the crew (2 or 3, I dont know for sure).This design dates back to 1937
and came as a result of Technische Amt specs and was put to the test and
flown for the first time (prototype called Ha-141-0) on Feb 25 1938.
This plane proved to be quite trouble-free (only hydraulics gave it
trouble it seems). The prototypes BV-141V1 to V4 were built (V1 and V4
crash landed due to hydraulic failure when landing). There was also a
BV141B type but it had bigger, armoured pilot station and did not have
the pleasant characteristics of her predesessors. This design was
finally dropped in the spring of 1942 when it was obvius that the FW-189
fulfilled the foreseen role quito adequately.

More obvius visual characteristic is that ther was almost no right
tailwing at all (maybe about 90% of the tailwing was on the left side of
the tail). This was done to countereffect the extra weight on the right
wing, (the crew-hausing) was located there, I assume.

Quite clever design by mr. Vogt.

Gudmundur J. Helgason                      E-mail:    [email-masked]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patriotism is the arrogance of assuming that your country is the greatest
one there is, simply because *you* were born there :) ICELAND RULES! :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 21 Mar 1994 to 22 Mar 1994
*************************************************