Subject: WWII-L Digest - 28 Mar 1994 to 29 Mar 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 00:00:34 -0500

There are 51 messages totalling 1672 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Eastern Poland and the Poles therein! (2)
  2. Is there a 'Montgomery AFB'? (2)
  3. jets
  4. jets and Goering (2)
  5. INF: USAAF 29 MAR 44
  6. Early Jets
  7. CFV: soc.history.war.{misc,world-war-ii} (4)
  8. Jets (Was: Re: MOVIE) (4)
  9. ME-262
 10. JETS
 11. WEAP: Early Jets (3)
 12. Re[2]: Panzerfaust (2)
 13. FILM: Stalingrad (2)
 14. B-29 in Russia (3)
 15. NOST: Mitchell spotters out west? (3)
 16. Tora Tora Tora (4)
 17. INF: AVAILABILITY OF LETTERS HOME
 18. Straw Boss on the Burma-Siam Railway
 19. Eastern Poland and t...
 20. Gen:Movies--Stalingrad
 21. Luftwaffe women pilots? (2)
 22. CFV for new WWII newsgroup
 23. CFV - Once last time I promise
 24. MISC:  Germans Pay for Cow
 25. MOVIE
 26. Russian B-29
 27. Re[2]: Re[2]: Panzerfaust
 28. MISC: Germans Pay for Cow
 29. First sinking of German sub in ATlantic (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 28 Mar 1994 23:30:01 -0600
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Eastern Poland and the Poles therein!

Well, Peter Beal, I have found my notes, etc.:

Also, you might reference SHEPHERD'S HISTORICAL ATLAS.
  "Growth of Russia in Europe, 1300-1796" has the D of Poland
  over half way down the Pripet River, towards the Dnepr (under
  "Black Russia").

"Europe about 1740" has the Kingdom of Poland all the way East
  to the Dnepr, I might add.

As to Poles in Eastern Poland, where did the million or so who
  were deported to Siberia, etc., come from?  Two- to three-
  hundred-thousand Poles died in Soviet captivity.

Not all Poles were deported.  My Russian teacher at Augustana
  was Polish (and a child at the time.  His most vivid memory
  was finding a Russian officer washing in a toilet bowl.  He
  lost an uncle and cousin at Katyn, or wherever, and my thesis
  is dedicated to him.)

Russian General Dmitri Volkogonov quoted an NKVD memo giving the
  number at about 1/2 million, but there are other questionable
  figures in his STALIN:  TRIUMPH AND TRAGEDY.  In any case, V.
  cites problems trying to get an accurate figure.  (pp 360-1)

See also books by Rozek and Robert Tucker's STALIN IN POWER
  (p. 612).

The genocidal -- nation-/culture-erasing intent of the Soviets
  toward the Poles in 1939/40 is a matter of record.  See Heller
  and Nekrich, UTOPIA IN POWER, pp. 341-2.

Peter, your kind of rationalization about borders and Eastern
  Poland not being Polish, is the same kind of expedient sophistry
  used by pro-Soviets during (and since) World War II, to try to
  allay Western fears/suspicions about Soviet deeds and intents in
  Eastern Europe.  The Poles were actually accused of making an
  issue out of Katyn -- all they were doing was asking for a Red
  Cross investigation -- for ulterior, border-haggling motives!

Would you say that Jews are only making an issue about the Holo-
  caust to collect back the money/assets of those exterminated?

This kind of rationalization by the Western intelligentsia/media,
  *I* believe, encouraged Communists to used exterminatory
  techniques similar to Katyn in places like Korea and Indochina.
  Russian intellectual leader/dissident Vladislav Krasnov has
  agreed, saying that Stalin could never have gotten away with
  his genocide, if Western/international public opinion had
  really taken him to task.

Again, the moral -- legal? -- responsibility of Western/AMERICAN
  members of the media and intelligentsia for our desertion of the
  Indochinese and the genocide which resulted  is in similar vein.
  Such culpability should be prosecuted to deter future, similar
  malfeasance and tragedy.

Such truth and justice is not a priority of our society, of course,
  as it is -- and will remain, if allowed to be so.

Lou Coatney, Western Illinois University

The thesis is COMING, folks, COMING ...

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 06:19:13 CET
From:    "LTC Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Is there a 'Montgomery AFB'?

Kurt -
Yep, Air War College is still at Maxwell along with several other
training, education, and history functions (including the USAF Historical
Research Center).
                       - Doug Donnell

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 11:51:24 MET-1
From:    Bognar Attila <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: jets

Hi Emmanuel,

You are right. Every sentence. It's just that..

> For some reason, it has always been fashionable to laugh at Hermann
> Goering. That is underestimating him, however. Despite all his eccentric
> behaviour, Goering was an intelligent and dangerous man, who was one of
> the most important builders of the nazi state. Of course some of his
> actions were stupid, but they had more to do with his admiration for
> Hitler and his struggle for power. [One could argue that to raise to power
> in Nazi Germany you had to be either a genius (Speer, Doenitz, Guderian,
> Goebbels,...) or a fool (Rosenberg, Hess, Keitel, von Ribbentrop, ...) and
> that Goering was both...]

I guess I might have put my remark in a rather easy-to-misunderstand
way. I would never laugh at Goebbels or any other guy from that
company. I think I'm rather aware of how dangerous they were beside
all their stupidity and struggle for power. What I had in mind was
only that they grew superficial with victory. The more victorious
they were the more self confident they became but the more careless
also! This happens all the time, that they feel almighty and fail to
think about what to do to be able to secure victory. See, they were
trying to develop new weapons. Still they put the idea of jets aside.
Why? This just does not make sense. If I were in such a position I
would build an all-round defense. (This is a term of communism, to
protect ourselves on every side, including not only weapons but
ideology, politics, etc... . It also did not only mean defense!) I
would push hard to make sure I'm superior to my enemy. Not only in
the number and quality of troops but in every ways I can think of.
Therefore I would definitely be willing and able to afford to
support any kind of experiment that promises me better and better
arms. The Nazi regime seems to have been a perfectly planned, utterly
practical machine. This machine would have worked fine without
people. But people were there with all their personal, petty
feelings, ambitions, ridiculous ideas and dreams and they started to
struggle for power or for the admiration of their Fuehrer and so
forth. Thus they begun throwing sand into the machine and the machine
slowed down, lost momentum and eventually stopped, collapsed and
died. (Something similar happened to Communism, though somewhat
later.)

That is what I meant. Humanity is much indebted to these people for
stopping the monster (though unitentionally) they had created.

Anyway, thanks for your post because I did not express myself
properly and that can lead to problems. I have to listen more
carefully to what and how I'm saying.

Thanks again,

All the best,

Attila  [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 11:55:04 MET-1
From:    Bognar Attila <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: jets and Goering

Sorry for the utterly long post, folks, I didn't mean to make it that
long.

All the best again,

Attila  [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 07:08:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 29 MAR 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
WEDNESDAY, 29 MARCH 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  CG-4, Waco Hadrian
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  L-1, Stinson Vigilant
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  Spitfire, Vickers Supermarine
  TG-5, Aeronca
  UC-64, Noorduyn Norseman

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 20+ P-51s and B-25s over the Katha
area hit the railroad and warehouse at Indaw in support of the ground forces
nearby; 12 P-38s join numerous Royal Air Force (RAF) aircraft in strikes on
airfields, railroads, riverboats, and a variety of targets in the Mandalay
area; 12 B-24s pound the Victoria Lake region near Rangoon; 80+ fighter-
bombers and a few B-25s blast targets throughout the Mogaung Valley,
including the Waingmaw area, Mogaung, Nanyaseik, guns NE of Kamaing, and
numerous scattered fortifications, supply areas, troop concentrations and
pillboxes; 80+ other fighters maintain patrol of the Sumprabum area.
  HQ 1st Air Commando Group is activated at Hailakandi, India; the group
consists of a HQ plus the following sections: bomber with B-25s, fighter with
P-51s, light-plane with L-1 and L-5s, transport with C-47s, glider with
CG-4As and TG-5s and light-cargo with UC-64s.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 12 P-40s and 3 P-51s attack the
railroad station area at Nanchang, causing much damage to buildings and
yards; the fighter-bombers also strafe the airfield and attack a nearby
bridge.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 284:
  1. 236 B-17s are dispatched to Germany; 193 hit the secondary target
(Brunswick), 20 hit Unterluss, 18 hit Stedorf and 2 hit other targets of
opportunity; the B-17s claim 8-3-6 Luftwaffe aircraft; 9 B-17s are lost, 1
damaged beyond repair and 66 damaged; casualties are 2 KIA, 5 WIA and 90 MIA.
Escort is provided by 50 P-38s, 242 P-47s and 136 Eighth and Ninth Air Force
P-51s; the fighters claim 44-4-13 Luftwaffe aircraft in the air and 13-7-14
on the ground; results are:
  P-38s: 2 lost, 3 damaged beyond repair and 1 damaged; 2 pilots are KIA and
2 MIA.
  P-47s: 1 lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 8 damaged; 2 pilots are WIA.
  P-51s: 9 lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 3 damaged; 1 pilot is WIA and 8
MIA.
  2. 77 B-24s are dispatched to V-weapon sites at Watten, France; only 30
bomb because of PFF failures; 2 B-24s are damaged beyond repair and 6
damaged; casualties are 18 KIA and 1 WIA. Escort is provided by 37 P-47s; no
claims or losses.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Units arriving in England from the
US: HQ 48th Fighter Group and 492d, 493d and 494th Fighter Squadrons at
Ibsley with P-47s (first mission is 20 Apr); HQ 442d Troop Carrier Group and
304th Troop Carrier Squadron at Fulbeck with C-47s; 34th Photographic
Reconnaissance Squadron, III Reconnaissance Command, at Chalgrove with F-5s
(first mission is 19 Apr).

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): About 400 B-17s and B-24s
(largest total to date) hit 3 targets in Italy; the B-17s bomb the ball
bearing factory, marshalling yard and industrial area at Turin; the B-24s hit
Bolzano and Milan marshalling yards; P-47s and P-38s fly escort; the bombers
and fighters claim 13 aircraft destroyed; 6 US aircraft are lost.
  HQ 325th Fighter Group and 317th, 318th and 319th Fighter Squadrons move
from Foggia to Lesina, Italy with P-47s.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s attack Viterbo
Airfield, causing considerable damage to the target; B-26s hit Leghorn and
many small craft nearby. French B-26s attached to the Twelfth Air Force bomb
Portoferraio on Elba; P-40s attack supply dumps and a bivouac area SE of Rome,
a tank repair shop E of Rome and guns and supply dumps E of Velletri; P-47s
cut lines at a railway overpass W of Rome while A-36s bomb harbors at San
Stefano al Mare and Civitavecchia and hit nearby targets of opportunity;
Spitfires, P-40s, and P-47s patrol the Anzio battle area.
  Unit moves in Italy: 7th Troop Carrier Squadron, 62d Troop Carrier Group,
from Brindisi to Pone Olivo, Sicily with C-47s; 12th Troop Carrier Squadron,
60th Troop Carrier Group from Gerbini, Sicily to Brindisi, Italy with C-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-25s from Kwajalein Atoll hit
Jaluit and Rongelap Atolls; B-25s from Eniwetok Atoll strike Ponape Island
while others from Tarawa Atoll bomb Maloelap and Jaluit Atolls.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): In the Rabaul area of New
Britain Island, 19 fighter-bombers hit targets of opportunity along the Miwo
River and at Mawareka and Kimaku; 8 others abort because of bad weather;
fighters sweeping the vicinity of Rabaul strafe shipping in Keravia Bay and
knock out a gun position at Cape Tawui; 24 B-25s and 11 P-40s get through the
bad weather and pound supply areas at Wunapope and Ratawul, respectively. On
Bougainville Island, a few P-38s hit Numa Numa while other fighter-bombers
again support ground forces at the mouth of the Tekessi River. B-24s of the
307th Bombardment Group (Heavy) carry out the first daylight raid on Truk
Atoll, bombing the airfield on Eten Island; the mission is staged from Munda,
New Georgia Island through Torokina, Bougainville Island for arming and
Nissan Island, Solomon Islands for refueling before the strike; the
unescorted B-24s claim 31 interceptors destroyed, along with almost 50
aircraft on the ground; 2 B-24s are lost.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): Brigadier General Paul H
Prentiss is announced as Commanding General V Air Force Services Command and
Brigadier General Warren R Carter as Commanding General 64th Troop Carrier
Wing.
  In New Guinea, B-24s bomb Hollandia; B-25s and A-20s pound the Wewak area,
hitting targets at Cape Wom and Dagua and attacking shipping throughout the
day; more A-20s pound the Bogia-Bunabun area and P-39s hit an AA position at
Erima in the Madang area; and P-47s and P-40s on a fighter sweep and armed
reconnaissance strafe coastal targets of opportunity in NE New Guinea and New
Britain Island.
  Moves in New Guinea: HQ 348th Fighter Group from Finschhafen to Saidor;
433d Fighter Squadron, 475th Fighter Group, from Dobodura to Nadzab with
P-38s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 06:59:04 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Early Jets

Hello, Emmanuel!

Great post!! I wanted to add a thought or two to your post. Your
alpha-numeric designations are right on, as mine yesterday weren't. I
didn't have access to my files at the house, and it is not
convenient, obviously, to carry around everything in your head.

Anyway, I checked out my info last night, and it was Erich Warsitz
who sat at the controls of the He-178 and He-176 to fly the world's
first jet-powered and rocket-powered flights respectively.

The He-176 flew on 20 Jun 1939 and the He-178 flew, as you mentioned,
on 27 August 1939.

Fritz Wendel was the chief pilot for the Messerschmitt aircraft
factory and flew the first Me-262 in its maiden flight.

Warsitz was the chief test pilot for the Peenemuende Experimental
Station.

Thanks again.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 08:46:53 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: CFV: soc.history.war.{misc,world-war-ii}

From: [email-masked] (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)
Subject: CFV: soc.history.war.{misc,world-war-ii}
Date: 23 Mar 1994 18:55:17 -0500

                          FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                 moderated group soc.history.war.world-war-ii
                    unmoderated group soc.history.war.misc

Newsgroups line:
soc.history.war.world-war-ii    History & events of World War Two. (Moderated)
soc.history.war.misc    History & events of wars in general.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 13 April 1994.

After this CFV appears on news.announce.newgroups it may be sent to
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This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
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CHARTER (Proponent)

The charter of soc.history.war.misc:  General discussion of wars,
including  military, social, political, economic,  technological,
historical, and demographic events.

The  charter of soc.history.war.world-war-ii:  Discussion of  the
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aspects of World War II, including discussion of:

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In  other words, the mandate for soc.history.war.world-war-ii  is
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theory, their articles will be approved for submission as well.

Why moderation or lack thereof?
---------------------------------------

Soc.history.war.world-war-ii is proposed as moderated to keep out
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Moderation policy:
------------------

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Moderation rules:

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-----------

[email-masked]               Gordon McFee
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------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 16:17:38 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Jets (Was: Re: MOVIE)

> > Probably some confusion. The Stipa-Caproni was a simple duct, with a De
> > Havilland Gipsy engine in it, drving a two-bladed propeller. It looked
> > very odd, and flew in 1932. The Caproni-Campini N-1 was, as said, a
> > 'blowtorch' design; it flew in 1940.
>
> I've seen the Caproni-Campini described as a ducted fan.  I can't speak for
> the correctness of those sources.

Essentially, the Caproni-Campini was a ducted fan with an afterburner
behind it. There is a photograph with the tail off and the burner working.
Of course the amount of fuel burned is best left to imagination. But I
don't know whether the burner was always used in flight.

It is told that when the Gloster E28/39 first flew, one of the onlookers
stated that the engine was a R.R. Merlin driving a four-bladed fan, and
that he had seen it...

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 16:23:10 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Jets (Was: Re: MOVIE)

On Mon, 28 Mar 1994, John Behrens wrote:

> missed.  As far as the Me 262 is concerned, I believe it was first
> designed as a piston engined, prop driven fighter.  I have seen a picture
> of it with a prop and engine on the front, and clean wings.  Whether it
> wsa flown in that configuration or not I don't know.  That may explain
> why the engines were podded instead of designed into the fuselage.  That
> way they didn't have to do a major redesign on the fuselage.  Just

No, the first Me 262 prototype had a Jumo 210G piston engine, just to be
able to fly it before the engines were ready. It was flown that way.
Later the jet engines were added, and the second prototype had only jet
engines. Other jet-powered aircraft were first test flown as gliders,
i.e. the He 280 and Horten Ho IX.

To add a timetable: This is a list of first flight dates and pilots (as
far as I could find quickly) for early jet and rocket aircraft:

Heinkel He 176
  20 June 1939 (rocket powered version of He 112)
Heinkel He 178
  27 August 1939, Erich Warsitz
Heinkel He 280
  11 September 1940 (unpowered)
Heinkel He 280
  30 March 1941 or
   9 April 1941, Fritz Schaefer (first powered flight)
Messerschmitt Me 262
  18 April 1941 (Junkers Jumo 210G piston engine only)
Gloster E28/39
  15 May 1941, Gerry Sayer
Bolkhovitinov BI (rocket power)
  10 September 1941 (unpowered)
Messerschmitt Me 262
  25 March 1942, Fritz Wendel (Junkers Jumo 210G and jet engines)
Messerschmitt Me 262
  18 July 1942, Fritz Wendel  (Only jet engines)
Bell P-59 Airacomet
  21 October 1942, Robert M. Stanley
Gloster Meteor
  5 April 1943, Michael Daunt
Arado Ar 234 Blitz
  15 June 1943
De Havilland Vampire
  20 September 1943, Geoffrey de Havilland
Ryan FR-1 Fireball
  25 June 1944 (mixed power fighter)
Junkers Ju 287
  16 August 1944
Bachem Ba 349 Natter (rocket power, vertical launch, semi-expendable)
  28 February 1945, Lothar Sieber (He was killed)
Lockheed P-80 Shooting Start
  8 January 1944, Milo Burcham
Horten Ho IX (Ho 229, Go 229)
  1 March 1944, Heinz Scheidhauer (unpowered)
Heinkel He 162 Salamander
  6 December 1944
McDonnell FH-1 Phantom
  26 January 1945
Convair XP-81
  2 February 1945 (mixed power fighter)
Horten Ho IX (Ho 229, Go 229)
  2 February 1945, Erwin Ziller (first powered flight)
Bell P-83
  25 February 1945
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG I-250(N) (mixed power fighter)
  3 March 1945
Nakajima Kikka
  7 August 1945
Republic P-84 Thunderjet
  28 February 1946
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-9 'Fargo'
  24 April 1946
Yakovlev Yak-15 'Feather'
  24 April 1946

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 09:26:28 EST
From:    Doug McCabe <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ME-262

                   Ohio University Electronic Communication

   Date:  29-Mar-1994 09:04am EST

     To:  Remote Addressee                     ( _MX%"[email-masked]" )

   From:  Doug McCabe                                Dept:  Library
          MCCABE                                   Tel No:  (614) 593-2715

Subject:  Re: ME-262

    Speaking of the German arguments over whether the ME-262 should be a
    bomber or a fighter (or a fighter/bomber) I just saw a week or so ago a
    photograph of an ME-262 with a plexi-glass bubble nose.  As I recall
    the plane was resting on its fusalage and wings (landing gear retracted
    or collapsed) and a couple of Americans or Brits standing around it.  I
    probably found it in the Cornelius Ryan Collection.

    Also from the Collection:  there are reports and reminiscences of
    ME-262's attacking and trying to wreck the Nijmegen highway bridge
    after the Americans and British took it on the 20th of September 1944.
    These efforts failed as did floating explosive rafts down river and
    sending commando frogmen.  The latter did drop the railroad bridge,
    though.

    There are also reports of fireballs shooting across the night sky - my
    guess is these are V-2 sightings.

    Doug McCabe

Received:  29-Mar-1994 09:26am

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 09:38:05 -0500
From:    "W. C. (RUSTY) DIVENS" <[email-masked]>
Subject: JETS

Keep in mind that these early jet engines had a TBO that was
pretty dismal.  The JUMO was a 25-30 hour engine, as I recall.
Was not the Westinghouse axial flow jet the first one that
was somewhat cost-effective in that it did not need a lot
of maintenance every few hours?

Then again...who cares about jets...they just convert kerosene
into smoke and noise!  :^)

Props forever....

Bill
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 09:38:07 EST
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Early Jets

Emmanuel Gustin wrote:

> To add a timetable: This is a list of first flight dates and pilots (as
> far as I could find quickly) for early jet and rocket aircraft:

------ list deleted ------

Here is missing the Fieseler Fi-103 Reichemberg IV, the manned version of
the V-1 bomb. I'm working from memory now, so, I don't remember dates and
pilot names, but I think there were some manned flights (maybe with the
unpowered version). I will check this at home.

BTW, If I'm not wrong, the first american jet to operate from an aircraft
carrier was the McDonnell FH Phantom.

Have a nice day,

Jorge

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 09:11:52 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: Panzerfaust

What is really unusual is that Nachritchten Helferinnen, Signals Helpers
were forbidden to carry rifles, and pistols, but the regulations allowed
them to use rocket launchers (ie: Panzerfausts).  Makes sense to me!!

If anyone knows of any original Nachrichten Helferinnen uniforms or
equipment, I would be VERY interested in it.  Me and a friend of mine
have reproduced the blouse with the skirt uniform (service dress), and
the work smock basically from scratch using pictures.

When we did this, I searched over fabric stores in Chicago and finally
on my 35th store found the perfect material as described in the
references I have (which are few and far between).  At my next
reenactment, I saw a woman walking around in a Helferinnen uniform that
looked OK.  I asked her where she got her fabric--she said, "Oh, at a
Walmart in Arkansas." I was crushed.

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 09:16:55 -0600
From:    "WILLIAM L. HUBER - SAA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: FILM: Stalingrad

> The film is a German film which was released in a subtitled version in
> Toronto (I don't know about other cities) in December 1993. It is
> produced by the same people as Das Boot (so I read). Having seen it, I
> would call it _very_ accurate from a historical prespective, and from a
> technical perspective. The POV was German, following basically a single
> squad through the battle. It runs about 3 hours, and I would highly
> recommend it if you can find anyplace showing/renting it.
> David Rising

Hi David,

Does the movie make reference to the sniper duels that took place at
Stalingrad?

How long ago did you see it?   I remember us talking about the movie's
release about 6 months ago here on the list.  Wasn't it made for
the 50th anniversary of the battle?  That would have it coming out in
Germany late in 1992.  When Das Boot came out there was no doubt where
it was playing but this one is being brought out like black market
scotch.

Cheers, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 11:50:00 EST
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: B-29 in Russia

The Associated Press is reporting that Russian pilots have spotted the
wreckage of a WWII Boeing B-29 Superfortress in a thick forest in the
Russian Far East.  The forest is near the town of Ussuriysk which is near
Vladivostok.

Stay tuned, same time, same station.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 11:55:55 -0500
From:    Daniel Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Jets (Was: Re: MOVIE)

On Tue, 29 Mar 1994, Emmanuel Gustin wrote:

> It is told that when the Gloster E28/39 first flew, one of the onlookers
> stated that the engine was a R.R. Merlin driving a four-bladed fan, and
> that he had seen it...
>
Have I posted my favorite bit of jet trivia? At the Gloster factory, the
jet was known as the Carter Farter, after its designer and its method of
propulsion. (Story told by Lord Kings Norton, who as a young man was
largely responsible for directing the British turbojet project once the
war began.)

Regards - Dan Ford   <e-mail: [email-masked]>
                     <postal: 433 Bay Road, Durham NH 03824 USA>
                     <voice or fax: +1-603-868-5850>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 11:58:08 EST
From:    Mike Oaks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NOST: Mitchell spotters out west?

On Mon, 28 Mar 1994 21:09:18 -0500, GEORGE BAUER wrote:

>Second the motion on the B-25 video!!!
>
>George Bauer
>U.S.A.:  [email-masked]
>Prague:  None currently in use.

Maybe a Miss Mitchell hat - video combination ???
Sounds good to me...

  Michael Oaks
  Systems Analyst
  Kennesaw State College
  Kennesaw, Georgia 30144
  [email-masked]
  Tel: (404) 423-6049  Fax (404) 423-6541

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:05:19 EST
From:    Mike Oaks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: jets and Goering

On Tue, 29 Mar 1994 11:55:04 MET-1, Bognar Attila wrote:

>Sorry for the utterly long post, folks, I didn't mean to make it that
>long.
>
>All the best again,
>
>Attila  [email-masked]

It may have been long but it was still a good post. Thanks!

  Michael Oaks
  Systems Analyst
  Kennesaw State College
  Kennesaw, Georgia 30144
  [email-masked]
  Tel: (404) 423-6049  Fax (404) 423-6541

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:21:58 -0500
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NOST: Mitchell spotters out west?

Count me in for the Video to!

(sorry to use bandwidth, but I don't know where else to send it)
John E. Kollar
I don't know about B-17s, but a B-24 came by here around 2yrs ago.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:24:52 -0500
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.history.war.{misc,world-war-ii}

>
> -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> soc.history.war.* Ballot    <SHW-0001> (Don't remove this marker)
>
> Give your real name here: David Rising
>
> [Your Vote]  Group
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> [  yes       ]  soc.history.war.world-war-ii (moderated)
> [     yes    ]  soc.history.war.misc
> -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:25:09 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: Tora Tora Tora

I was watching "Tora Tora Tora" last night and I began wondering - was any
of the battle shots "original footage"; meaning that the shots were taken as
Pearl Harbor was actually under attack? From watching the companion movie
"Midway" it looks to me that some of it is definitely "original footage". I'm
not so sure about "Tora" though. Also, my son and I have an on-going argument
about "Victory at Sea". At 19 (and an expert on everything) he claims
"Victory" is pure-propaganda drivil. I myself love watching "Victory" but one
thing I have noticed is that they seem to reuse some of the same film shots
over and over in different battles. My son keeps saying how many times are
they going to shoot that same plane down. I guess the film shots were not
included to be historically accurate but rather meant to capture the feeling
of an event in history.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                                            [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.                  He's the boogie-woogie bugle boy of Company B.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Mar 1994 00:19:44 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Eastern Poland and the Poles therein!

Lou,

I only described a map in a book.  I didn't expect a diatribe in
response.  If you have a problem with what I described, take it up with
Len Deighton.

By and large I agree with your points but as for the geographic
limitations of the Duchy of Poland at various times being contiguous with
the dividing line between areas inhabited by a predominantly Polish
population, I am sure even you will agree that this rarely ocurred.  And
popluations moved.

As to where the Poles who were marched off to Soviet captivity from
*eastern* Poland came from, there are three possible answers:

The map I described is correct only in general terms, i.e. populations
in any area were mixed although predominantly of one ethnic group or

They were refugees from western Poland or

All of the above.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:37:26 -0500
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: FILM: Stalingrad

On Tue, 29 Mar 1994, WILLIAM L. HUBER - SAA wrote:

> Does the movie make reference to the sniper duels that took place at
> Stalingrad?
It certainly contains sniper scenes, but if you mean sniper vs sniper,
no. It primarily focusses on one squad
>
> How long ago did you see it?   I remember us talking about the movie's
> release about 6 months ago here on the list.  Wasn't it made for
> the 50th anniversary of the battle?  That would have it coming out in
> Germany late in 1992.  When Das Boot came out there was no doubt where
> it was playing but this one is being brought out like black market
> scotch.
I saw it in December 1993, soon after it was released here in Toronto. It
was only playing at one theatre, and had a short run-time. Just today I
checked in at my local video store to see if it was available. The woman
there said that she didn't know, but she believed that it was shown just
recently at the Berlin Film Festival (which I'd never heard of). I'll
keep looking for y'all though--I'd like to see it again (and again, and
again, and again) too! For the meantime, I may just have to dip into my
black market scotch...
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 15:52:47 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: AVAILABILITY OF LETTERS HOME

MESSAGE FROM MICHAEL OAKS

John,
   For the "nets" benefit, as well as my own: If we order the disk version
of your book does the Writers Dream program come with it so we can view the
book or do we need some other software product??
                                                Thanks,

REPLY:  Thanks for asking.  I should have made this clear.  Yes, Writer's Dream
comes on the same disk as my book.  There is, therefore, nothing else required
to read the book.

I will be traveling for a couple weeks from March 31 and hence will be in a
nomail mode.  I will reply to any EMAIL messages when I return.

  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 13:42:19 -0500
From:    Daniel Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Straw Boss on the Burma-Siam Railway

For JAPAN AT WAR (New York: The New Press, 1992), Theodore and Haruko Cook
interviewed scores of Japanese, including Abe Hiroshi, a railroad surveyor
called up in January 1941 and sent as a second lieutenant to Burma in
August 1942. His sector was Songkrai, on the Thai-Burma border. There were
600 men in his regiment, later supplemented by Burmese "volunteers" and
Allied prisoners. They built an "enormous bridge," presumably the one that
inspired the River Kwai movie, though all the labor, he said, was
Japanese. The prisoners "never built us a great bridge," but felled trees
and did the heavy digging.

"I felt genuinely sorry for the captives, but I was in no position to
actively improve their condition. That was the problem of the guard unit."
He complained that the prisoners couldn't do much work because "they were
just skin and bones....  Just watching them made me tired." In his
section, 3100 died. The doctors, he said, wrote a death certificate for
each man and buried it in a bamboo stalk; the certificates were later dug
up and used at Abe's trial. He was sentenced to death, later reduced to 15
years. Noting that a friend who'd served as an artilleryman at Impahl was
invited to a reunion with British veterans of the Burma campaign, he said:
"I don't think they'll ever do that for the Burma-Siam Railroad."

After the war, Burma became a hermit nation and closed its borders to
overland travel, and the railroad decayed along with the mountain road to
China, over which the U.S. and Britain had earlier supported the Chinese
war effort. When I was there in 1986, Burma could be entered only by air,
but I understand it's more accessible now.

Regards - Dan Ford   <e-mail: [email-masked]>
                     <postal: 433 Bay Road, Durham NH 03824 USA>
                     <voice or fax: +1-603-868-5850>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 10:50:17 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Is there a 'Montgomery AFB'?

'Way off from things military...
'Notice you are with the Natural History Museum.
My son is a keen bird-watcher, well a little more than that, he leads
bird-watching walks, etc.
Could you tell me if there is a catalog of nird-related publications
available from the NHM? If so, how can one obtain a catalog?
Much obliged for your addvice.
Regards from Canada's far Pacific shore.
Needless to add, that "nird" should be *bird*. :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 13:05:00 -0500
From:    DAVID WILMA 415-744-2485 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Panzerfaust

          Why did the Germans prohibit signalmen from carrying weapons?

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 13:08:48 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Early Jets

Hello, Jorge!

I can't give you all the names of the pilots who flew that manned
version of the V-1, but the most famous was Hanna Reitsch who
successfully test flew the craft after others had lost their life
doing so.

My two cents' worth.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 14:12:28 EST
From:    John Sloan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Eastern Poland and t...

Sorry Lou but I have to agree with Peter that the map boundaries of Poland
don't reflect who is living where. For that matter none of the central and
eastern European boundaries are now or were virtually at any time drawn along
ethnic lines. The Poles, Lithuanians, and all the rest have given as much as
they have taken when it comes to dealing with neighbors. As far as Soviet
efforts to destroy national intelligensia goes they certainly did try their
best against the Poles, but then they had already done a good job on
Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Estonians etc etc. As Solzhenitzen said -
The Russians were the first people of many conquered by the Bolsheviks. When
you visit Yaroslavl and Rostov and a lot of towns far to the northeast even
of Moscow you can still find evidence of the destruction wrought by the Poles
in the campaigns of 1608-12.
John sloan

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 13:16:43 CST
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NOST: Mitchell spotters out west?

> On Mon, 28 Mar 1994 21:09:18 -0500, GEORGE BAUER wrote:
>
> >Second the motion on the B-25 video!!!
> >
> >George Bauer
> >U.S.A.:  [email-masked]
> >Prague:  None currently in use.
>
> Maybe a Miss Mitchell hat - video combination ???
> Sounds good to me...

OK.  When the video is complete late this fall, I'll put together a video/
hat/nose-art-pin package deal.

This all hinges on us raising the funds for the video in the first place,
though, of course... :-)  [Although that looks extremely promising at the
moment -- enough so that we're arranging a C-130 chase plane in two weeks].

But -- If you want video of the April flyover, I'll have to look into that
after the next couple of weeks have past to find out what they plan to
produce.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 14:11:29 -0600
From:    Marty Cavanaugh <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Gen:Movies--Stalingrad

On Mon, 28 Mar 1994, Sidney Allinson wrote:

> There was an excellent book entitled STALINGRAD, by the German writer,
> Theodor Plieven.
>
My library's catalog lists the author of the three novels, MOSCOW (1952),
STALINGRAD (1948), and BERLIN (1954), as Theodor Plivier (1892-1955).

******************************************************************************
Marty Cavanaugh                         Internet: [email-masked]
Reference Dept., Olin Library           Bitnet:   [email-masked]
Campus Box 1061                         Voice:    (314) 935-7365
Washington University                   FAX:      (314) 935-4045
1 Brookings Drive
St. Louis, MO 63130
******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:40:44 PST
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.history.war.{misc,world-war-ii}

I'm mystified as to how one returns a copy of your ballot.
However, my vote is YES
Regards.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 14:36:00 CST
From:    Steve Alvin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: B-29 in Russia

I wonder if this is in reality a Soviet built B-29 clone (I forget
the designation) that they built after the war from reverse
engineering an interned B-29.

--
Steve Alvin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 20:41:20 +0000
From:    Gudmundur Helgason <[email-masked]>
Subject: Luftwaffe women pilots?

        Hello all

        Terry Moore wrote about some Luftwaffe pilot who flew the manned
version of the V-1 named HANNA Reitsch. I ask was that a woman? The
first name seems to suggest so. If not, did the Luftwaffe employ women
as pilots? The Russians did (2 made ace I think).

        Bye

Gudmundur J. Helgason                      E-mail:    [email-masked]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Patriotism is the arrogance of assuming that your country is the greatest
one there is, simply because *you* were born there" :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 16:03:33 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: CFV for new WWII newsgroup

Make sure when you vote for the new World War II newsgroup that you send the
vote to [email-masked] (he is a Usenet Volunteer Votetaker). The way
the WWII mailing list works, if you just reply to the message without
changing the "reply to:" address it will get posted back to the mailing list
which is not at all what you want to do. If you've voted and replied back to
the mailing list (I've seen at least one) and have deleted the CFV send me a
message off-mailing list and I'll resend the CFV to you. I guess I should
have made this clear when I posted the CFV. Sorry.

John ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 15:16:26 -0600
From:    "WILLIAM L. HUBER - SAA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Tora Tora Tora

> <in documentaries> ....they seem to reuse some of the same film shots
> over and over in different battles. My son keeps saying how many times are
> they going to shoot that same plane down. I guess the film shots were not
> included to be historically accurate but rather meant to capture the feeling
> of an event in history.
>
> John Davis                                            [email-masked]

Hi John,

I was just the other day thinking the same thing.  I checked out a
documentary on the death of Field Marshall Rommel and in describing
his victories in France 1940 showed shots of Pz IVs with anti-hollow
round armor skirting and Hetzers and troops with MP-44s that were
obviously films made in 1944 or later.  This documentary was fairly
old (1970s) but I still see some of the same problems with newer ones.

It seems like sloppy documentary making to me because there seems to
be plenty of shots of Pz IIs that are supposedly in use at St. Lo
that are obviously the clips they should have used in the 1940s part
of the show.  I have never made a documentary so I don't know but I
would strive to keep the film clips consistent with the time period
being narrated.

Its a real pleasure to see one that has been well done.  The others
are good to bet beers on.  "Whaddaya mean they didn't have Hetzers in
1940?  Ya just saw one!"  "Betcha".... :-)

Cheers, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 16:17:38 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: CFV - Once last time I promise

Forget the last message - I told you wrong. Do not send the vote for the new
Usenet newsgroup to [email-masked]. You mail the vote to
[email-masked] just like it says in the CFV. The problem is you just
can't reply to it as is; if you do it will just bounce back to the mailing
list you must change the "Reply To: field to [email-masked]. Once again
if you need a clean CFV form send me a message. I apologize for the confusion.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 16:31:00 EST
From:    Mike Oaks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.history.war.{misc,world-war-ii}

On Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:24:52 -0500,
David Rising  <[email-masked]> wrote:

>>
>> -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>> soc.history.war.* Ballot    <SHW-0001> (Don't remove this marker)
>>
>> Give your real name here: Mike Oaks
>>
>> [Your Vote]  Group
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> [  yes       ]  soc.history.war.world-war-ii (moderated)
>> [     yes    ]  soc.history.war.misc
>> -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  Michael Oaks
  Systems Analyst
  Kennesaw State College
  Kennesaw, Georgia 30144
  [email-masked]
  Tel: (404) 423-6049  Fax (404) 423-6541

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 17:04:27 -0500
From:    Ronald A Wilson <[email-masked]>
Subject: MISC:  Germans Pay for Cow

Text item: Text_1

   This was taken from the AF Reserve "Paperboy" electronic news
   service. Having given them credit, I post this
   unchanged.........

   *************************************************************
   GERMANS PAY FOR WWII COW LOSS

      German authorities, acting on a receipt issued by the Nazi
   occupation administration more than 50 years ago, have
   compensated a Belarussian woman for the loss of a cow, a news
   agency said.
      Anna Voropayeva, whose cow was requisitioned by German
   troops in 1942, presented the document to a representative of
   a German relief agency this year, ITAR-Tass reported.
      To the elderly woman's surprise, the agency, which was
   distributing aid in Gomel, 185 miles southeast of the capital
   Minsk, brought her a relief package.
      ITAR-Tass said the woman would not say what the package
   contained, but, "judging by the expression on her face and her
   high spirits, the contents have quite satisfied her."
   *************************************************************

   I wonder what the % was of any country making good on those
   "GOVt Chits" given out to civilians.

   And "TIME MARCHES ON........."
   Ron Wilson      [email-masked]
   Seattle

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 07:39:58 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MOVIE

>
> On Mon, 28 Mar 1994, Julian E Gomez wrote:
>
> > >Strange you say the germans flew the first jet plane. I recall (dimly) readin
> g
> > >an article in the National Air/Space Museum about some Frenchman building and
> > >"flying" (Some controversy here) a jet-ish plane long before then.
> >
> > The Czechs claim to have flown a jet in 1910. This was at an exhibit at the
> > 1986 World Expo in Vancouver. Very little documentation accompanied the
> > exhibit.
>
> I think that both memories could refer to the biplane built by Coanda;
> instead of a propeller it had a dustbin-like structure fitted to the nose;
> it is rumoured to have been some kind of reaction engine. But I know
> little of it.

Considerable reference is made to it in one of the "Indian Jones" novels
written by Martin Caiden.

Supposedly the faster it went, the greater the thrust.

On the test flight, it exhibited far more power than Coanda expected.  He
was unable to control it and crashed.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:48:23 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: B-29 in Russia

>
> The Associated Press is reporting that Russian pilots have spotted the
> wreckage of a WWII Boeing B-29 Superfortress in a thick forest in the
> Russian Far East.  The forest is near the town of Ussuriysk which is near
> Vladivostok.

Could be.  Could be a Tu-4 Bull too.  Did they say how they knew it was
a *U.S.* aircraft?

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:51:18 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Early Jets

>
> Emmanuel Gustin wrote:
>
> > To add a timetable: This is a list of first flight dates and pilots (as
> > far as I could find quickly) for early jet and rocket aircraft:
>
> ------ list deleted ------
>
> Here is missing the Fieseler Fi-103 Reichemberg IV, the manned version of
> the V-1 bomb. I'm working from memory now, so, I don't remember dates and
> pilot names, but I think there were some manned flights (maybe with the
> unpowered version). I will check this at home.

Hannah Reisch(sp).

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:55:24 -0500
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Jets (Was: Re: MOVIE)

> > I've seen the Caproni-Campini described as a ducted fan.  I can't speak for
> > the correctness of those sources.
>
> Essentially, the Caproni-Campini was a ducted fan with an afterburner
> behind it. There is a photograph with the tail off and the burner working.
> Of course the amount of fuel burned is best left to imagination. But I
> don't know whether the burner was always used in flight.

I first saw it in a kids book on aviation.  I don't figure that you can expect
too much from them.  They were still more accurate than "Time" and "Newsweek"
are.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 17:42:41 EST
From:    Jorge Merino <[email-masked]>
Subject: Russian B-29

Hello Steve,

> I wonder if this is in reality a Soviet built B-29 clone (I forget
> the designation) that they built after the war from reverse
> engineering an interned B-29.

The russian B-29 was designated Tupolev Tu-4 (I don't remember the NATO
designation, but it may be "Bull" if my memory works well). As you said,
the russian engineers had "designed" all the plans and production processes
by reverse-engineering some emergency-landed B-29s.

My two cents,

Jorge

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 16:38:45 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: Panzerfaust

The German's didn;t prevent signalmen from carrying weapons, they
prevented signal women from carrying them.  Men carried weapons like any
other soldier.  Women were used no lower than Army Group headquarters
level.  That was taken from the last instructions for Helferinnen
written, in 1945--perhaps April.  References aren't in front of me.  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 17:52:00 -0500
From:    DAVID WILMA 415-744-2485 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Tora Tora Tora

          Although the Victory at Sea footage is genuine U.S. Navy etc.,
          not all the footage in WWII was on-the-spot.  Lots of stuff was
          posed or renacted since to get some of those shots the cameraman
          would have had to been exposed to enemy fire.  If you look
          closely, F6Fs and TBMs participate in Midway and even some
          European shots are spliced in.  As for original Midway footage, I
          think the only cameramen were on the U.S. Ships and on Midway.  I
          do not recall ever seeing any footage of the Japanese fleet that
          could have been real.  Don't forget, almost all their carriers
          were lost.

          I recall that in the U.S. Navy documentary on the Battles around
          the Philippines, most of the footage was staged.  There are a few
          real scenes.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 17:16:20 -0600
From:    "WILLIAM L. HUBER - SAA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Luftwaffe women pilots?

>
>         Terry Moore wrote about some Luftwaffe pilot who flew the manned
> version of the V-1 named HANNA Reitsch. I ask was that a woman? The
> first name seems to suggest so. If not, did the Luftwaffe employ women
> as pilots? The Russians did (2 made ace I think).
>
> Gudmundur J. Helgason                      E-mail:    [email-masked]

Hi Gudmundur,

Terry, if I may....  Yes, Hanna Reitsch was a woman.  She was a sort
of German Emilia Ehrhart except all her records were set in gliders
during the 1930s.  She was appointed flight captain by Ernst Udet and
employed as a test pilot.  She was awarded the Iron Cross 1st and 2nd
classes by Hitler for her contributions.

She piloted the He 293 rocket interceptor and the ME-363 Gigant
transport (designation ??).  She also piloted versions of the V-1 and
was instrumental in determining where it was deficient during flight
tests.

She was also awarded the only version of the pilots badge in diamonds
for a female recipient.

She accompanied Luftwaffe General von Greim when he was summoned to
Berlin 26 April 1945 to be appointed Luftwaffe C-in-C.  Her wish was
to die in the Fuhrerbunker with Hitler but he ordered her and von
Greim to break out and continue resistance which they did in what can
only be described as a miracle.

After the war she continued competing in gliders and in 1962 set up a
school for gliding in Ghana.  She died in Frankfurt in 1979.

To my knowledge she was the only woman pilot in the Luftwaffe.  Terry
would probably know better than I.  He probably has her autograph in
his most impressive files.

Cheers, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 18:52:58 -0500
From:    Daniel Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MISC: Germans Pay for Cow

On Tue, 29 Mar 1994, Ronald A Wilson wrote:

>       German authorities, acting on a receipt issued by the Nazi
>    occupation administration more than 50 years ago, have
>    compensated a Belarussian woman for the loss of a cow, a news
>    agency said.
>
>    I wonder what the % was of any country making good on those
>    "GOVt Chits" given out to civilians.
>
The French government, several years ago, reimbursed the Swiss town below
the St. Bernard Pass for damage done by Napoleon when he passed through
on his invasion of Italy. Bourg St. Pierre, I think it was.

Regards - Dan Ford   <e-mail: [email-masked]>
                     <postal: 433 Bay Road, Durham NH 03824 USA>
                     <voice or fax: +1-603-868-5850>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 20:55:51 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Tora Tora Tora

Regarding the movie "Midway" some of the shots of the Lexington in the
Coral Seas segment look to my non-professional eye to be vintage. Also, in
the movie "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" some of the shots on the Hornet look
authentic (at least to me). Going back to "Tora Tora Tora" does anyone know
where the actual battle sequencies where filmed? Was it actually Pearl Harbor
itself or somewhere else?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Davis                                             [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.                     He's the boogie-woogie bugle boy of Company B.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 20:27:08 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: First sinking of German sub in ATlantic

Can anyone document for me the first sinking of a German submarine in
the Atlantic in WWII?

Approximate date, location, and aircraft used.
If not a B-25, the first enemy ship sunk by a B-25.

Thanks.

  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic  |    economic, social, political     |
  |   and another about those who    |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |   built and flew the B-25 in WWII|  B-25 in WWII.                     |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Mar 1994 22:31:03 CST
From:    Steve Alvin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: First sinking of German sub in ATlantic

On 14 September, 1939 the carrier Ark Royal was on a anti-submarine
patrol off the NW coast of Ireland.  The U-39, a type IX A boat
commanded by Lt-Cdr Glattes, attacks the Ark Royal, but the magnetic
detonators explode prematurely and the attack fails.  The U-39 is
then sunk by the destroyers Faulknor, Firedrake, and Foxhound.
This is the first U-boat sunk.

The first attack on a U-boat by aircraft occured the next day
when two Skua aircraft from the Ark Royal surprise the U-30
(Lt-Cdr Lemp) while it is surfaced searching a trawler.  The
aircraft lightly damage the boat, but they are both shot down
and two of the aircrew are taken prisioner.  The U-30 was one of
the few fleet boats to serve through out the entire war, she
wasn't scuttled until May 5th, 1945.

--
Steve Alvin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 28 Mar 1994 to 29 Mar 1994
*************************************************