Subject: WWII-L Digest - 12 Apr 1994 to 13 Apr 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 00:01:13 -0400

There are 28 messages totalling 930 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Re[2]: Weap: Triumph of the Will
  2. Prinz von Blucher battleship
  3. TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine (11)
  4. INF: USAAF 13 APR 44
  5. "German soldier from 1936-49" ?? (2)
  6. New here, please reply? (3)
  7. INFO Zerstorer Groups.
  8. WEAP - Midget Subs
  9. Help National Geographic #1
 10. Help National Geographic #2
 11. A-6 - A-8
 12. NOST: Mitchell Hunters...
 13. MISC RUSFRONT.ZIP
 14. WEAP: Early Jets
 15. call for papers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 12 Apr 1994 10:22:37 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Weap: Triumph of the Will

>
>      This is probably an "Off the wall" comment regarding the use of Spades
>      at the Nuremberg Rally but here goes anyway...

If you're talking about people marching with shovels, they were more than
likely the Reich Arbeits Dienst (RAD), the National Labor Service.  They
were a CCC type organization for young men.  They were SUPPOSED to carry
shovels.

As an aside, Michael Wittmann, the Tiger ace, was a member of the RAD before
joining the SS.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 09:59:41 +0200
From:    Bengt Nilsson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Prinz von Blucher battleship

>
>I've just finished the first book of a trilogy by Burke Wilkinson
>about Geoffrey Mildmay where he sinks the above ship (or maybe he
>doesn't but that'd give the book away). My questions are:
>
>Did this ship actually exist and get sabotaged in port?
>
>Did the allies ever use one man subs for sabotage?

As far as I know the German Navy had two major warships called Bluecher.
The first one, an armored cruiser, was sunk in the Dogger Bank action in
 1915.

The second one, a heavy cruiser, was sunk by the Norwegians on 9 April 1940
just outside Oslo. It's still there and there have been several reports
that it's leaking oil and that the Norwegians are considering raising
the wreck.

Bengt Nilsson
Link|ping University Library
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 02:36:25 PST
From:    "Jones, Scott T." <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

     This question is right up Terry's alley...

     I was in Germany in the Christmas Season of 1991. I enjoyed the snow,
     skiing, white lights, beer and "Gluhewein"(sp?) along with other
     wonderful German things but I could not find a bottle of "German
     Champagne" which a friend had requested. It turned out the  German
     EQUIVALENT of champagne cannot be called "champagne" due to a clause
     in the Treaty of Versailles which gave the French "sole use" of the
     term. The Germans had to use there own term which escapes me.
     Something along the line of "senf"(mustard??!)? Terry?

     Scott Jones
     [email-masked]

     "This is full of omissions!"

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 11:27:01 BST
From:    Stephen Baldwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

>            This question is right up Terry's alley...
>
>            I was in Germany in the Christmas Season of 1991. I enjoyed the snow,
>            skiing, white lights, beer and "Gluhewein"(sp?) along with other
>            wonderful German things but I could not find a bottle of "German
>            Champagne" which a friend had requested. It turned out the  German
>            EQUIVALENT of champagne cannot be called "champagne" due to a clause
>            in the Treaty of Versailles which gave the French "sole use" of the
>            term. The Germans had to use there own term which escapes me.
>            Something along the line of "senf"(mustard??!)? Terry?
>
>            Scott Jones
>            [email-masked]
>
>            "This is full of omissions!"
It may also be something to do with the European Community in its
unbelievable and unworkable stupidity. There was a case recently
of a British wine company which also was forbidden to use the word
"Champagne" in the product name since Champagne refers to a specific
drink originating from a specific area (ie Champagne in France).

As another example of the banalities eminating from Brussels, they
have declared in the last few days,
that snails (as in the things that crawl up drainpipes and
eat lettuces etc) are Land Fish - thereby enabling the French to qualify
for Fisheries subsidies...

Please! Can't the UK join NAFTA? Save us from these jerks!

steve baldwin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 07:02:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 13 APR 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 13 APRIL 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 3 B-24s fly armed reconnaissance and bombing
runs over the airfield on Matsuwa Island and installations on Onnekotan
Island.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 90+ P-40s, P-51s and A-36s and a
few B-25s carry out ground support missions near Kamaing and hit assorted
targets throughout the Mogaung Valley; 12 B-25s and 11 P-51s support ground
forces at Mawlu.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): 28 fighters attempt to intercept but fail to
make contact with 13 Japanese airplanes which bomb Namyung, China.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (XX Bomber Command): Units arriving in India with
B-29s from the US: HQ 468th Bombardment Group (Very Heavy) and 792d, 793d,
794th and 795th Bombardment Squadrons (Very Heavy) at Kharagpur; 677th and
679th Bombardment Squadrons (Very Heavy), 444th Bombardment Group (Very
Heavy), at Charra; first mission for all units is 5 Jun 44.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 301: 626 bombers and 871
fighters are dispatched to hit targets in Germany; the bombers claim 22-13-34
Luftwaffe aircraft and the fighters claim 42-8-10 in the air and 35-0-21 on
the ground; 38 bombers and 9 fighters are lost; the bombers also drop 5.2
million leaflets on Germany; this mission is flown in conjunction with a raid
on Hungary by 500+ Fifteenth Air Force bombers and a Ninth Air Force B-26
raid in S The Netherlands; details are:
  1. 154 of 172 B-17s hit the industrial area at Schweinfurt and 1 hits a
target of opportunity; 14 B-17s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 127
damaged; casualties are 11 WIA and 139 MIA.
  2. 207 of 243 B-17s bomb aviation industry targets at Augsburg and 20 hit
the city of Augsburg; 18 B-17s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 178
damaged; casualties are 3 KIA, 16 WIA and 170 MIA.
  3. 211 B-24s are dispatched to hit Lechfeld Airfield; 93 hit the primary,
60 bomb aviation industry targets at Oberpfaffenhofen; 29 hit Lauffern and 2
hit targets of opportunity; 6 B-24s are lost and 45 damaged; casualties are 1
KIA, 3 WIA and 60 MIA.
  Escort is provided by 134 P-38s, 504 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and
233 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s; 3 P-38s are lost and 1 damaged beyond
repair; 2 P-47s are lost; and 4 P-51s are lost and 1 damaged beyond repair;
a total of 11 fighters are damaged; casualties are 2 WIA and 8 MIA.
  Mission 302: 4 of 5 B-17s dispatched drop 800,000 leaflets on Amsterdam,
The Hague and Eindhoven, The Netherlands at 2235-2252 hours without loss.

  SUPREME HEADQUARTERS ALLIED EXPEDITIONARY FORCE (SHAEF): General of the
Army Dwight D Eisenhower formally assumes direction of air operations out of
the UK at 0000 hours (though he began informal exercise of this authority in
late Mar 44). This assumption of authority gives Eisenhower direction over
the Allied Expeditionary Air Force (AEAF), Royal Air Force (RAF) Bomber
Command, and US Strategic Air Forces in Europe (USSTAF) (the Fifteenth Air
Force retains some degree of independence) along with the US 1st Army Group,
British 21 Army Group, and Allied Naval Forces.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 121 B-26s and 37 A-20s attack
a marshalling yard, coastal batteries, airfields and V-weapon sites at Namur,
Chievres and Nieuport, Belgium; Le Havre, France; and along the N coast of
France in general; nearly 175 other aircraft abort missions mainly because of
weather; and 48 P-47s also dive-bomb V-weapon sites.
  Moves in England: HQ 358th Fighter Group and 365th, 366th and 367th Fighter
Squadrons from Raydon to High Halden with P-47s; HQ 362d Fighter Group from
Wormingford to Headcorn.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 535 heavy bombers (largest
bomber mission to date) bomb targets in Hungary; the B-17s bomb an aircraft
plant and depot at Gyor; the B-24s bomb an aircraft factory at Budapest and
air depots at Budapest, Tokol and Vecses; fighter opposition and AA account
for 14 US bombers and 1 fighter shot down; 40 enemy fighters are claimed shot
down and 120+ aircraft destroyed on the ground.
  779th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 464th Bombardment Group (Heavy),
arrives at Pantanella Airfield, Italy from the US with B-24s; first mission
is 30 Apr.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s attack Terni and
a bridge at Marsciano while B-26s bomb Ancona marshalling yard and a nearby
railroad bridge; fighter-bombers again strike mainly at communications, the
town of Itri, Cesano station, a factory at Fontana Liri, a railroad overpass
at Fara in Sabina, Anguillara, and bridges, trucks and other targets at
points throughout C Italy.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-24s out of Eniwetok Atoll
strike Truk Atoll; B-25s from Abemama Island hit Ponape Island; B-25s from
Tarawa Atoll bomb Jaluit Atoll, rearm at Majuro Atoll and hit Maloelap Atoll.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On New Britain Island, 24
B-25s blast Talili Bay and Ratawul supply areas and the town of Rabaul; 40+
fighter-bombers strike the Malaguna area NW of Rabaul; 17 fighter-bombers hit
personnel and supply areas at Mosigetta, Mawareka, Meive, and Maririei.
During the early morning 23 B-24s bomb Truk Atoll.
  394th Bombardment Group (Heavy), 5th Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from
Guadalcanal Island to Momote Airfield, Los Negros Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 80+ B-24s and
A-20s pound the airfields at Dagua and But on the N coast of New Guinea; 33
A-20s hit Aitape; P-39s, B-25s, and B-24s fly light strikes against a variety
of targets along Hansa Bay, on Wakde Island, at Uligan, and several other
points along the coast.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 07:08:47 -0400
From:    Kevin Kamphaus <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: "German soldier from 1936-49" ??

How did she get a signed copy? I read this about a year ago, I really enjoyed
it. Knappe was a very lucky man. I believe he lives in Xenia Ohio now. Which
is only 70-80 miles north of Cincinnati, where I live.

Its great to be back. The powers that be moved Tri State Online to another
system(It will be better for all involved) and we lost the Internet connection
for about 2 weeks. What happened to Larry? Is he ok?

Kevin Kamphaus

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 07:13:22 -0400
From:    Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: "German soldier from 1936-49" ??

> >
> > I was under the impression (from the book) that the Labor Service was
> > devised to give teen-aged boys military basic training, without
> > putting them in the army, which would have violated the Versailles
> > Treaty.
> >
> > Robert Brunner
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> That was the role of the Hitler Jugend and it had been around since
> the 1930s (I want to say 1932 but I'll have to look it up to be sure)
> and a boy could become a member of that organization from age 12 to
> age 18 whereupon he would then go into the Wehrmacht or to university.
>
> If you study photos of RAD men you see that they are mostly of
> military age or older.  The RAD was a jobs organization rather than a
> youth group.  Its stated goal was to provide work for German men and
> organize them such that they could accomplish useful projects for
> Germany.  The unstated purpose was to prepare large numbers of men for
> military service.

Sounds like the New Deal's CCC here in the U.S.  Take young unemployed men put
them in a paramilitary organization and put them to work on Federal projects.
A lot of our National Parks and other recreation areas owe their improvements
to the CCC.

Bob Smart ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 06:52:54 CDT
From:    jesse carnes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: New here, please reply?

Dear Filiberto Farini ;

>From OUR human perspective, the Germans were mainly outgunned via our larger
war munitions production capibilities (Estados Unidos, id est)... even though
they DID have some superior items of war (later model tanks and their early
Messerschmitt262 jets, eg.).

The fact that Hitler would not listen to reasoning from the German High Command
but rather went the route of superstitious mysticism, aided in the German
defeat.

MORE knowledgable people on this net than I can say more, indeed much more to
give you an adequate answer, Filiberto.

However, from the HEAVENLY perspective, it was just not meant to be for
Germany to rule the world in its Nazi guise.  God had different plans.

Jesse Carnes
Baton Rouge
Louisiana
(Louisiana State University)
United States of America
[email-masked]
-------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 07:02:59 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INFO Zerstorer Groups.

Hello, Derek!

> Secondly, does any list member have or know of a book or series of books
> called "The Luftwaffe war diaries"?. I would realy like to get a
> copy of it/them.

    The book you are inquiring about is "The Luftwaffe War Diaries"
by Cajus Bekker. It is an excellent book, and would highly recommend
it. I don't know if it is still in print, but it shouldn't be too
difficult to find a copy of it, as, if it is out of print, it hasn't
been long. I have a paperback copy of it that was published by
Ballantine Books and I think it came out in the 1980's.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 07:11:41 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: New here, please reply?

Hello, Filiberto!

To answer your questions and give you my two cents' worth on it.

> Also was the Normandy battle impossible to be won the Germans?

    I don't think it was impossible for the Germans to successfully
defend the Normandy beachhead. The whole question, to my mind, would
center on timing. If the Germans had had sufficient tank forces, gun
emplacements of sufficient calibres and numbers, adequate mine
fields, which Rommel was wanting to increase, and sufficient numbers
of troops, it would have been possible to defend Normandy
successfully. Rommel correctly foresaw the problem, and recognized
that the first 24 hours would be decisive. If he had had his way and
given the time, the Allies would have found it much rougher going to
gain a foothold at Normandy.

    However, even if the Allies had been repulsed, they would have
come again and, to my mind, given Allied air and naval supremacy at
the time, I don't think Germany could have held on, coupled with the
determination of the Western Allies to liberate France. Thus, in the
end, IMHO, the area would have been occupied.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 08:09:45 EDT
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

On Wed, 13 Apr 1994 02:36:25 PST Jones, Scott T. said:
>     I was in Germany in the Christmas Season of 1991. I enjoyed the snow,
>     skiing, white lights, beer and "Gluhewein"(sp?) along with other
>     wonderful German things but I could not find a bottle of "German
>     Champagne" which a friend had requested. It turned out the  German
>     EQUIVALENT of champagne cannot be called "champagne" due to a clause
>     in the Treaty of Versailles which gave the French "sole use" of the
>     term. The Germans had to use there own term which escapes me.
>     Something along the line of "senf"(mustard??!)? Terry?

This sounds moderately apocryphal.  By French law, only wines made in the
province (now department, I guess) of Champagne by the champagne method can
be called champagne; every other sparkling wine can only call itself "made
by the champagne method".  I believe the French have managed to gain this
point with all other European countries, probably long before WWI.

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 07:17:53 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

Hello, Scott!

Thanks for the query. The only thing that comes to mind about the
German idea of Champagne would be the word "Port". I am no wine
expert, but that is the only thing that comes to mind with the
Germans being forced to find another term for the French "Champagne".

Any other thoughts?

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 08:16:52 EDT
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: New here, please reply?

On Tue, 12 Apr 1994 20:51:33 -0500 Filiberto Farini said:
>What can you talk here, can you make questions?????

Questions are always welcome here, I find--and the answers are often
useful, too (-:

>Like where are ftp computers that have WWII texts, like The Normandy (6 june
>1944)

Can't help you there; don't have FTP, so I usually skip those notes.  Someone
else on the list is bound to know, though.

>Also was the Normandy battle impossible to be won the Germans?

In what sense?  Once the Allies won a lodgement, yes; the Germans would
never have had the strength to lock them up forever.  Could they have stopped
a lodgement?  Probably not, on the scale the Allies assaulted, but given more
preparation and giving Rommel a freer hand, they might well have forced one
or more beaches to have been evacuated & abandoned--as it was, Omaha was a
close-run thing.

>Was the German force no well organizated in France?

The command structure was confusing, but that didn't lose the battle (unless
you are counting Hitler as part of that (-: )

>Allied wins beacause German Luftwaffe failed in the defensive (no one) of
>the 6 june 1944?

No.  I don't think the use of air power alone could have reversed the results
of the battle on either side, though its absence was/would have been a big
disadvantage.

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 06:34:09 MDT
From:    Dan Strottman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

I do not know if the Versailles treaty bans the use of
the label Champagne for german sparkling wine - Sekt.
I do know a decision of the European court several
years ago effectively banned it.  E.g., when Spain
joined the E.C., they had to switch to calling their
champagne cave.  Their are intermittent threats
to California and other producers.  Similarly, cognac
is a protected name.
As the Japanese say, trade is war.

Dan

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 08:20:33 EST
From:    Collins Steven CPT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

>On Wed, 13 Apr 1994 02:36:25 PST Jones, Scott T. said:
>>     I was in Germany in the Christmas Season of 1991. I enjoyed the snow,
>>     skiing, white lights, beer and "Gluhewein"(sp?) along with other
>>     wonderful German things but I could not find a bottle of "German
>>     Champagne" which a friend had requested. It turned out the  German
>>     EQUIVALENT of champagne cannot be called "champagne" due to a clause
>>     in the Treaty of Versailles which gave the French "sole use" of the
>>     term. The Germans had to use there own term which escapes me.
>>     Something along the line of "senf"(mustard??!)? Terry?
>
>This sounds moderately apocryphal.  By French law, only wines made in the
>province (now department, I guess) of Champagne by the champagne method can
>be called champagne; every other sparkling wine can only call itself "made
>by the champagne method".  I believe the French have managed to gain this
>point with all other European countries, probably long before WWI.
>
>ken koester
>[email-masked]
>

Ken Koester is correct on all accounts.  The word we are looking for here is
"der Sekt".  In general, Europeans are much more precise with the labeling and
manufacture of beers, wines, etc.

                                    CPT Steve Collins
                                    USMA
                                    [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 09:40:31 LCL
From:    Tom Shirhall <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

>Thanks for the query. The only thing that comes to mind about the
>German idea of Champagne would be the word "Port". I am no wine
>expert, but that is the only thing that comes to mind with the
>Germans being forced to find another term for the French "Champagne".

>Any other thoughts?

>Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College

Well, I know more about wine than I do about most things. Although I don't
drink German "seckt" as I think they call it, it is made by the same
"methode champagnoise" but uses the reisling grape rather than the
traditional chardonnay and the pinot noir.

Forgive my French and German.

Tom Shirhall
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 17:51:28 CET
From:    "LTC Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

Hi all,
German "champagne" is called sekt.  It's very good, and very, very popular.
I'm no wine expert, so the main difference I see is an order of magnitude
in price.
                         Doug Donnell

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 09:33:51 -0700
From:    "Office TH325, Extension 3566" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP - Midget Subs

Someone asked if the British used one-man subs.  Since I haven't seen an
answer, I thought I would post what I have.

This is taken from the book "Suicide Squads", by Richard O'neill.

The British had midget subs of the X-5 class.  Their best known
operation was in attacking the German battleship Tirpitz at anchor.
Tirpitz was not sunk but was heavily damaged.  The X-5 was a 4-man
sub (so was not really a 1-man sub).

The XE class was used in the Pacific.  It had a crew of 4 or 5.  They
were used to cut some communications cable and attacked the Japanese
carrier Takao which was badly damaged.

The Welman midget sub was a 1-man sub.  It was used by Norwegian
volunteers to attack a floating dock but all failed.

More if anyone is interested.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 12:55:45 -0400
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

On Wed, 13 Apr 1994, Jones, Scott T. wrote:

>      This question is right up Terry's alley...

>      EQUIVALENT of champagne cannot be called "champagne" due to a clause
>      in the Treaty of Versailles which gave the French "sole use" of the
>      term. The Germans had to use there own term which escapes me.
>      Something along the line of "senf"(mustard??!)? Terry?
>
>      Scott Jones
>      [email-masked]
 The word is "sekt" Scott, and it's generally quite good. I think,
however, the French monopoly on the word "champagne" dates back further
than that. In order to be truly "champagne", the sparkling wine has to
come from the Champagne region of France. Recently, however, I've seen
many others called "champagne" too. What is this world coming to?
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 12:50:12 EST
From:    Aldo <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

> Similarly, cognac is a protected name.

I recall hearing on NPR the other day that GAT or some other global
alliance has plans afoot to strengthen and enforce the limit on all
beverage appellations related to a region (e.g. Scotch, Kentucky
Bourbon etc...).  Technically, it is illegal in the US for a

sparkeling wine made here (in the US) to advertise as "champagne".

Aldo M. Hubert
                                           [email-masked]
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
800 Oakland Ave.
Greensboro NC 27412

Sic Friatur Crustum Dulce

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 13:56:38 -0400
From:    "Nat. Geo. Magazine Art" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Help National Geographic #1

National Geographic Magazine wishes to communicate with people who
recall listening to President Roosevelt's radio address on Feb. 23,
1942,  and who also referred to a National Geographic Society map
of any kind during the course of that radio address. For an article
on the use of NGS maps during World War II. Via E-Mail, contact
David Wooddell, Senior Researcher at [email-masked]. Or via
telephone, (202) 857-7003.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 13:57:28 -0400
From:    "Nat. Geo. Magazine Art" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Help National Geographic #2

National Geographic Magazine wishes to contact U.S. soldiers or
sailors who served in the field during World War II, and who recall
using or referring to National Geographic Society maps while
overseas. For a story on the use of NGS maps during World War II.
Via E-Mail, contact David Wooddell, Senior Researcher at
[email-masked]. Or via telephone, (202) 857-7003.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 15:21:39 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

Hello, Captain Collins, Ken and others!

Thanks for jarring my memory. Of course, Sekt is the word instead of
the word "Port" which I used. I am no wine expert and, overseas,
certainly beer is the mainstay.

Thanks again.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 15:30:03 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: A-6 - A-8

Hello Gudmundur!

Here goes with some more info on the A-weapons.

                  A-6

A project only. This was to have been similar to the A-4 but to be
propelled by a bi-fuel motor using 90% sulfuric acid and 10% mixed
hydrocarbons as fuel.

                 A-7

A winged version of the A-5 used as a test vehicle on the A-9
project. It was air-launched from about 40,000 ft in order to study
the aerodynamic aspects of the glide component of the A-9's proposed
trajectory.

              A-8

A design study at about the same time as the A-6 with which it was
almost identical. The only difference lay in the fuel system which
was intended to be a liquid-oxygen/alcohol system as in the A-4.

           More tomorrow.

           All the best.

           Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 15:35:51 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: NOST: Mitchell Hunters...

Miss Mitchell departs at 0'dark:30 tomorrow (Thursday, 14 April) for
California (weather permitting).  She's flying out to attend the Annual
Doolittle Raiders Reunion -- the first year without Jimmy Doolittle.

According to the current schedule, she's supposed to arrive in Chino, CA
late afternoon 4/14 (perhaps as early as 16:00).  The flight route will
probably see stops in Goodland, KS and Albuquerque, NM on the way
there.  If she's forced to overnight somewhere, she's scheduled to
arrive in Chino no later than noon on Friday, 4/15.

She'll depart Chino at 15:00 on 4/15 and arrive Van Nuys at 16:00.
On Saturday 4/16, she'll depart Van Nuys at 14:00 and arrive Fresno at 15:30.
Sunday 4/17 sees a Fresno departure at 10:00 and arrival at Beale AFB 13:00.
Departure on 4/17 is from Beale at about 15:00. Probably overnight in Fresno.

Van Nuys appears to be a fairly major stop at this point, too... Lots of
activity there.

She'll be carrying PX, hats, T-shirts, stuff like that.  All the little
trinkets that keep her flying.  :-)

Last I heard, 8 B-25s and several (12?) Mustangs will be taking part in
this little gathering.  Should be quite a sight.

As noted earlier, I'm hoping people may have the opportunity to visit the
airplane and crew.  If you do, mention my name (I'm the Wing's Exec and
PIO).  I'm trying real hard to confuse the flight crews right now because
I won't be able to attend... My name being mentioned by a bunch of people
will start that ball rolling... :-)

I'd also like to see postings or email back from people who may otherwise
have the opportunity to witness this rare and probably last-time-ever
mass gathering of flying B-25s.

I'll be getting daily updates from the flight crew on the CA scheduling
and activities.  What they do is basically a reflection of what all the
other aircraft will be doing once they muster.  Is anyone interested in
these updates if they really do become available to me?  I realize this
only truly affects those in California and/or region...

I haven't heard who all is sending B-25s... Ron: Is NWM/Panchito sending
any people and/or aircraft?  (We _need_ to design an Internet Air Corp
patch... :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 16:09:24 EST
From:    Aldo <[email-masked]>
Subject: MISC RUSFRONT.ZIP

Does anyone know if RUSFRONT.ZIP (the game Russian Front) is still
available on Byrd?   I looked around & did not see it & even checked
in the index.

Thanks in advance

Aldo M. Hubert
                                           [email-masked]
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
800 Oakland Ave.
Greensboro NC 27412

Sic Friatur Crustum Dulce

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 23:21:19 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Early Jets

Peter,

> Nakajima MXN1 Kitsuka

The 'Nakajima MXN-1 Kitsuka' is probably the 'Kikka'. The translation
usually given for 'Kikka' is also 'Orange Blossom'. The designation MXN
would indicate an experimental aircraft built by Nakajima; that is not
unlikely -- but only other MX aircraft I know are the MXY-5, -6, -7 and
-8.  It is also correct that the 'Kikka' was primarily an attack
aircraft, with fighter versions under development.

> Misubishi J8M1 Shusui

The disastrous first powered flight of the J8M was also its last. The
first unpowered flight had been made on 8 January 1945. The Toku Ro.2
engine was a copy of the German Walther HWK 509. The J8M1 itself was
not an exact copy of the Me 163B. It was lighter (max weight 3885kg,
against 4110kg for the Me 163B), and had a greater wing span (9.50m vs.
9.30m), reflecting the Japanese preference for a smaller wing loading.
It was also slower (900km/h instead of 960km/h).

The translation 'Swinging Sword' for Shusui, or Shusei, is common.
Sometimes you find it translated as 'Sword Stroke'. Designations of
Japanese aircraft could be unreliable (the most notable example is
"Demon" for "Shoki".)

> Maeda MXY7 Akigusa

The unpowered, wooden training version of the J8M was the Yokosuka MXY-8
Akikusa. The MXY-7 was the Ohka, also known as 'Baka', suicide aircraft;
model 11 was rocket-powered, model 22 jet-powered. The Y in the
designation indicates the Yokosuka naval arsenal; maybe Maeda was a
subcontractor?

> None were completed.

Of the MXY-8, or of the powered version?

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Apr 1994 15:04:42 -0700
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: call for papers

>
>                               CALL FOR PAPERS
>
>"EXPLORING THE CHALLENGES OF CONFLICT:  ISSUES AND ALTERNATIVES IN THE 20TH
>CENTURY WORLD"
>
>AN INTERDISCIPLINARY GRADUATE STUDENT/FACULTY SYMPOSIUM
>Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff, AZ
>November 4-5, 1994
>
>The theme of the fourth annual NAU Graduate Student Interdisciplinary
>Symposium (GSIS) is CONFLICT IN THE 20TH CENTURY. GSIS organizers invite
>graduate students and faculty to attend and to submit abstracts of papers you
>would like to present at this year's symposium.
>
>possible topic areas include, but are not limited to:
>
>Conflict and Community in Urban Areas
>Violence and Non-violence as Means of Social Change
>Power Relations:  Social, Economic, and/or Political
>Environmental Conflict
>"Legitimate" Violence:  Language, Institutions, and/or War
>Gender Conflict
>Technologies for Violent and Non-violent Uses
>Crime and Societies Response to Crime
>Racial and Ethnic Identities and Conflict
>International Conflict
>Conflict as Witnessed in Art, Music, or Literature
>
>THE DEADLINE FOR ABSTRACTS IS AUGUST 1, 1994
>
>Please send abstracts and requests for additional information on the symposium
>to:  Matt Lindstrom, Co-Chair, GSIS
>     Department of Political Science, NAU Box 15036
>     Flagstaff, AZ 86011
>     (602)  779-5695
>     Email:  [email-masked]
>
>THANKS, MATT

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 12 Apr 1994 to 13 Apr 1994
*************************************************