Subject: WWII-L Digest - 13 Apr 1994 to 14 Apr 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 00:01:42 -0400

There are 24 messages totalling 1252 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: USAAF 14-17 APR 44
  2. TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine
  3. INF: USN 19 APR 44
  4. TRV: champagne (3)
  5. Kasserine (7)
  6. A-9 and A-10
  7. NOST: Mitchell Hunters... (2)
  8. good riddance (2)
  9. Champagne vs. Sekt
 10. Ricky's Lament (2)
 11. USAAF (2)
 12. MISC RUSFRONT.ZIP

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 07:31:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 14-17 APR 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
14 - 17 APRIL 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  L-4, Piper Cub/Grasshopper
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

FRIDAY, 14 APRIL 1944

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 3 B-24s fly armed photo reconnaissance mission
during early the morning over Matsuwa, Onnekotan, and Paramushiru Islands,
Kurile Islands. Photographs taken are negative due to cloud cover.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 20 P-40s over the Mogaung Valley
attack a camp at Manywet; 20 P-51s and 3 B-25s support ground forces in the
Mawlu area.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 350th and 351st Fighter Squadrons,
353d Fighter Group, move from Metfield to Raydon, England with P-47s.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Moves in England: HQ 363d Fighter
Group and 380th, 381st and 382d Fighter Squadrons from Rivenhall to
Staplehurst with P-51s; 355th Fighter Squadron, 354th Fighter Group, from
Boxted to Lashenden with P-51s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s attack Viterbo
Airfield and Leghorn marshalling yard, B-26s strike at Poggibonsi, Certaldo,
Cecina and Magra, attacking mostly rail facilities and hit Arezzo bridge and
viaduct and Bucine viaducts; fighter-bombers also concentrate on rail lines
and bridges and hit many supply dumps, gun positions and factories, generally
located NE of Rome.
  HQ 340th Bombardment Group (Medium) moves from Paestum, Italy to Corsica.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): A single B-24, enroute from
Kwajalein Atoll to Tarawa Atoll, bombs Jaluit Atoll; B-25s from Eniwetok
Atoll bomb Ponape Island while B-25s from Abemama Island strike Jaluit and
Maloelap Atolls, using Majuro Atoll as an arming station between strikes;
Japanese bombers carry out an ineffective raid on Eniwetok Atoll.
  26th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 11th Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves
from Tarawa Atoll to Kwajalein Atoll with B-24s.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): 19 B-24s on a mission to
the Caroline Islands bomb Eten, Param, and Kuop Islands and targets of
opportunity in Truk Atoll. On New Britain Island, 24 B-25s and 40+ fighter-
bombers blast a supply area at Ratawul; and 8 other fighter-bombers hit
Wunapope. 20+ fighter-bombers strike various targets in the NE part of
Bougainville Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, B-25s and
P-39s hit barges and luggers in Vanimo Harbor and at Bogia.
  673d Bombardment Squadron (Light), 417th Bombardment Group (Light), moves
from Dobodura to Saidor, New Guinea with A-20s.

SATURDAY, 15 APRIL 1944

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): During the night of 14/15 Apr 3 B-24s on armed
reconnaissance mission over Matsuwa and Onnekotan Islands hit several targets
including Matsuwa Airfield; reconnaissance over Paramushiru Island fails due
to overcast.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): 12 B-24s over the Andaman Islands attack
shipping and other targets at Port Blair. 12 P-38s hit Heho Airfield, Burma,
destroying several parked airplanes.
  19th Liaison Squadron, US Army Forces, CBI, arrives at Kanchrapara, India
with L-5s (first mission is in Jun 44).

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): 3 B-25s knock out a bridge at Viet Tri,
French Indochina, and damage another.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 303: 616 fighters are
dispatched on strafing sweeps of C and W Germany, airfields being the primary
objectives; 33 fighters are lost. Details are:
  1. 132 P-38s claim 7-0-2 Luftwaffe aircraft; 11 P-38s are lost and 16
damaged; 11 pilots are MIA.
  2. 262 P-47s claim 20-1-23 Luftwaffe aircraft; 7 P-47s are lost, 1 damaged
beyond repair and 13 damaged; 7 pilots are MIA.
  3. 222 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s claim 30-0-10 Luftwaffe aircraft;
15 P-51s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 5 damaged; 12 pilots are MIA.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Moves in England: HQ 100th Fighter
Wing from Ibsley to Lashenden; HQ 397th Bombardment Group (Medium) and 596th,
597th, 598th and 599th Bombardment Squadrons (Medium) from Gosfield to
Rivenhall with B-26s (first mission is 20 Apr); 377th, 378th and 379th
Fighter Squadrons, 362d Fighter Group, from Wormingford to Headcorn with
P-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Clearing weather again permits
bomber operations. 448 B-17s and B-24s attack marshalling yards; B-17s hit
Ploesti, Rumania and Nis, Yugoslavia; B-24s hit Bucharest, Rumania; 150+
fighters provide escort.
  A special group, led by Lieutenant Colonel Louis A Neveleff, flies from
HQ at Bari, Italy to Medeno Polji, Yugoslavia and from there the group
proceeds to Marshall Tito's HQ at Drvar, where Colonel Neveleff confers with
Tito and spends several days laying the groundwork for the evacuation of
downed US airmen in Yugoslav hands. Also, much information is gathered
regarding the military organization and political trend of the partisan
movement. The mission returns to Italy on 2 May and 122 men, mostly Fifteenth
Air Force airmen, are also evacuated.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers strike a
marshalling yard at Leghorn and a tunnel and railroad bridges in C Italy;
P-47s attack rail lines, bridges and ammunition dumps NE of Rome with good
results; other P-47s, P-40s and A-36s hit numerous targets, including rail
lines, motor transport shop, vehicles, tanks and gun positions, in C Italy
and in the US Fifth Army battle areas.
  XII Air Support Command is redesignated XII Tactical Air Command.
  Moves in Italy: HQ 332d Fighter Group and 301st Fighter Squadron from
Montecorvino to Capodichino with P-39s; 486th Bombardment Squadron (Medium),
340th Bombardment Group (Medium), from Gaudo Airfield to Alesan, Corsica with
B-25s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): Major General Robert W Douglass
Jr becomes Commanding General Seventh Air Force.
  B-25s, based on Tarawa Atoll, bomb Maloelap Atoll, rearm at Majuro Atoll
and hit Jaluit and Mille Atolls on the return trip.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On New Britain Island, 24
B-25s bomb an ammunition dump on Talili Bay; 11 P-39s follow with a strike on
the same target; 3 P-38s fire the Wunapope supply area; other fighter-bomber
strikes on the same area are cancelled by weather. A few P-38s hit targets
in the NE part of Bougainville Island.
  72d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 5th Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from
Munda, New Georgia Island to Momote Airfield, Los Negros Island with B-24s.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 180+ B-24s,
B-25s and A-20s bomb landing strips, off-shore islands and the entire coastal
area in the vicinity of Aitape; 16 P-40s strafe barges at nearby Seleo
Island; 20 P-39s hit villages, supply dumps, trucks and other targets along
Hansa Bay and in the Alexishafen area.

SUNDAY, 16 APRIL 1944

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 12 B-25s hit a bridge over the
Mogaung River while 9 others, along with 12 P-51s, hit a warehouse and
railroad station at Mohnyin; 9 P-38s destroy 3 medium bombers at Zayatkwin
near Rangoon while 2 P-51s in the Mandalay area hit Anisakan Airfield,
destroying 2 airplanes.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (XX Bomber Command): 768th Bombardment Squadron (Very
Heavy), 462d Bombardment Group (Very Heavy), arrives at Piardoba, India with
B-29s; first mission is 5 Jun.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): HQ 55th Fighter Group and 338th
and 343d Fighter Squadrons move from Nuthampstead to Wormingford, England
with P-38s.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): HQ 410th Bombardment Group (Light)
and 644th, 645th, 646th and 647th Bombardment Squadrons (Light) move from
Birch to Gosfield, England with A-20s; first mission is 4 May.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 31st Fighter Group with P-51s
(transferred from Twelfth Air Force on 1 Apr) begins operations. It becomes
the fifth operational fighter group of the Fifteenth Air Force.
  432 B-17s and B-24s hit targets in Rumania and Yugoslavia; B-17s bomb the
industrial area at Belgrade, Yugoslavia and an aircraft plant at Brasov,
Rumania; B-24s hit marshalling yards at Brasov and Turnu Severin, Rumania;
90+ fighters fly escort while 50+ others, failing to rendezvous with the
bombers, strafe trains on the Craiova line E of Turnu Severin.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s bomb approaches to
Ficulle and Todi railway bridges; A-20s blast fuel supplies; P-40s, P-47s and
A-36s hit the Capranica viaduct, town of Zagarolo, railway at Spigno
Monferrato, marshalling yard at Orte-Terni, tunnel at Capranica and tracks,
vehicles, railway cars, ammunition dump, bridge, and targets of opportunity
at various points in C Italy.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-25s, staging through Eniwetok
Atoll, strike Truk Atoll; B-25s from Abemama Island hit Maloelap and Mille
Atolls, using Majuro Atoll as a rearming base between the strikes.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): 15 B-24s bomb the runway at
Satawan Atoll, Caroline Islands. On New Britain Island, 24 B-25s hit the
Ratawul supply area and alternate target of Raluana; at Rabaul 30+ fighter-
bombers attack area inland from Toboi wharf.
  23d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 5th Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from
Munda, New Georgia Island to Momote Airfield, Los Negros Island with B-24s.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 170+ B-24s,
B-25s and A-20s bomb Hollandia town and airfield and numerous other targets
in the area; P-39s hit a wooded area and communications targets along Hansa
Bay and attack villages and supply dumps from Bogia to Uligan Harbor; P-38s
hit Madang area; B-24s fly a light strike against Wakde Island; other
aircraft, operating singly or in pairs, attack targets of opportunity on the
N coast of New Guinea and SE coast of New Britain Island. Other B-25s bomb
Koepang on Timor Island.

MONDAY, 17 APRIL 1944

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 6 P-51s support ground forces near
Meza; 9 P-38s destroy several airplanes at Heho Airfield while 5 B-24s bomb
Ywataung; 26 B-25s and 36 P-51s support ground forces at Mawlu and bomb a
fuel dump at Kin; 13 other P-51s are diverted to intercept a Japanese force
over the Imphal, India area and claim 3 airplanes shot down.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 304: 14 of 15 B-24s bomb
the V-weapon site at Wizernes, France without loss; escort is provided by 33
P-47s.
  Mission 305: 5 of 5 B-17s drop 1.48 million leaflets on Rennes, Brest,
Nantes, Lorient and St Nazaire, France at 2248-2258 hours without loss.
  HQ 493d Bombardment Group (Heavy) and 860th, 861st, 862d and 863d
Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) move from Elveden Hall to Debach, England with
B-24s; first mission is 6 Jun.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Unit moves in England: HQ 70th
Fighter Wing from Boxted to Ibsley; and HQ 354th Fighter Group and 353d and
356th Fighter Squadrons from Boxted to Lashenden with P-51s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  AAF, MTO: 121st Liaison Squadron, AAF, MTO moves from Oran to Telergma,
Algeria with L-4s and L-5s; first mission is in Sep 44.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 470 B-17s and B-24s hit targets
in Bulgaria and Yugoslavia; B-17s bomb the industrial area, air depot and
marshalling yard at Belgrade, Yugoslavia; B-24s bomb the marshalling yard at
Sofia, Bulgaria; 200+ fighters escort the missions; US aircraft claim 25
enemy aircraft downed in combat.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s attack bridges N
of Orte and at Monte Molino, while A-20s pound a fuel dump NE of Rome; P-40,
P-47 and A-36 fighter-bombers hit motor transport stores and gun positions N
of Anzio, bomb Fara in Sabina station, hit tracks, trains and guns in the
Orte and Narni area and at other points N of Rome.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-25s, based on Tarawa Atoll,
strike Maloelap and Mille Atolls, rearming at Majuro Atoll between the raids.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): 20 B-24s bomb the airfield
at Satawan Atoll. On New Britain Island, 24 B-25s pound runway and revetments
at Rapopo Airfield; 40+ fighter-bombers hit Matupi with incendiaries while 10
others pound the runway at Keravat.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): 20+ B-24s bomb storage areas
and troop concentrations in Kai Island, Moluccas Islands. In New Guinea,
P-39s attack AA positions at Bogia; other planes, operating individually or
in pairs, attack Hollandia, Uligan Harbor and vicinity and the Madang area.
  674th Bombardment Squadron (Light), 417th Bombardment Group (Light), moves
from Dobodura to Saidor, New Guinea with A-20s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 07:57:38 EDT
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRIVIA: Treaty of Versailles and Wine

On Wed, 13 Apr 1994 15:21:39 GMT-6 Terry Moore said:
>Hello, Captain Collins, Ken and others!

To you, too!

>Thanks for jarring my memory. Of course, Sekt is the word instead of
>the word "Port" which I used. I am no wine expert and, overseas,
>certainly beer is the mainstay.

I found while abroad the more "brut" & "sec", the better I liked the champagne
(which is why I have a problem with most American brands:  far too sweet).
Does anyone remember if the Germans have an "extra" sekt?  Maybe "kraftwertig"
sekt, or some such (-:

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 08:22:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN 19 APR 44

FROM THE NAVY NEWS SERVICE

NNS241.  This Week in the Navy:  Apr. 19, 1944 -- Allied naval
force, including the carrier USS Saratoga and 3 US destroyers,
strikes enemy positions at Sabang, Netherlands East Indies.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 08:47:00 EST
From:    Don Bowden <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRV: champagne

        One thing that wasn't mentioned was that the Germans drink their
champagne (seckt?) with orange juice added. Put in that context it may be
more understandable why the French would want a lock on the name.
Don Bowden
Winston-Salem, NC

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 09:14:00 EST
From:    Don Bowden <[email-masked]>
Subject: Kasserine

        Sidney Allenson mentioned the Kasserine Pass battle as a debacle which
(the inference was) demonstrated how the American Army could have learned from
British experience. There is an example of what I have found baffling in the
discussion of the capacities of various armies in WWII. In the great scheme of
things the Kasserine Pass battle was a tactical defeat at the divisional, corps
level for the Americans in their first large scale action in WWII. My recollec-
tion is that it pretty well trashed one or two combat commands of a US armored
division and several thousand prisoners were taken by the Germans. The strate-
gic impact was nil and probably had the positive effect of winnowing out some
of the less effective American officers. Compared with our allies and enemies
such an action wouldn't even have gotten a footnote in their official his-
tories. What the Americans could have learned from the British to prevent it
is questionable.
        I think a great deal in how a battle is viewed is the post-action
marketing. For example, I would call the surrender of Tobruk (40,000-50,000
men) a debacle, or the Dunkirk evacuation (not the evacuation, but what lead
up to it) was a debacle. Need we go on?... Singapore, Greece, Crete, etc.
The major genuine defeat of the American Army in WWII was in the Phillipines
which I believe only had 1-2 US Army divisions. If it hadn't been for the
political pull of McArthur, even these men wouldn't have been lost in what
was considered a strategically indefensible position by the American Chiefs
of Staff for years. Other American defeats were the 45th Div. attempt to
cross the Rapido in Italy and the surrender of two regiments of the 106th
ID in the initial stages of the Battle of the Bulge. Remember that one
regiment of the 106th was not surrounded, did not surrender, and contributed
significantly to the defense of St. Vith. Heaven knows that in the Germna
and Russian armies merely losing a division was just another day at the
office. They only got upset when say they 30 or 40 divisions could get
surrounded and annihilated. I would assert that the American war machine
responded much more flexibly and learned much quicker. Of course we didn't
have the ability of Montgomery to lose 200 tanks in a day no ground
 and gain no ground
in front of Caen, or annihilate an airborne division at Arnhem, and come back
and say it was exactly what we had planned.

PS. I have been reading a book which keeps talking about the SS Gross Deutsch-
land division. I thought the divsion of this name was not SS, but a more or
less elite division of the Wehrmacht. Anyone know for sure?

Don Bowden
Winston-Salem, NC

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 09:23:35 -0400
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRV: champagne

        For a while, this was marginally associated with WWII (with the
Treaty of Versailles connection).  That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
Perhaps the topic could be moved to the wine connosisseur mailing list? :-)
Thanks.
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
Oh, man, don't hit me with those negative waves so early in the morning.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 10:30:19 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Kasserine

Don Bowden,

Good post!  Nice succinct analysis.  I'm in agreement with most of your
comments.

As far as the Grossdeutschland Division: it was an elite Heer unit, did NOT
belong to the Waffen SS.  Early in the war it was a motorized infantry
regiment, became a motorized infantry division, then a panzergrenadier division
but with the same amount of tanks as a regular panzer division.

Many other units were affiliated with the Grossdeutschland:

the Brandenburgers, later Pz Gren Div Brandenburg
Pz Div Kurmark
the Fuhrer Begleit (Escort) brigade
the Fuhrer Grenadier brigade

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe               RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, West Point  (e-mail:  [email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 10:40:27 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Kasserine

Hello, Don!

    Great post and I heartily concur with your comments.

> PS. I have been reading a book which keeps talking about the SS Gross Deutsch-
> land division. I thought the divsion of this name was not SS, but a more or
> less elite division of the Wehrmacht. Anyone know for sure?

    Yes, the Grossdeutschland Division was an elite ARMY division
that was composed of the Fuehrer Begleit Brigade and two others that
don't come to mind right now. The SS had no such division named
"Grossdeutschland" and the author of your book has certainly not done
his homework. Such an error as this would make me suspicious of
anything credible he might say.

    Hope this helps. BTW, it was the 36th "Texas" Division which was
virtually wiped out trying to cross the Rapido. This division never
recovered psychologically from that fiasco.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 10:51:01 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: A-9 and A-10

Hello Gudmundur!

Here goes with some more info.

                    A-9

Similar to the the A-4b, but built of much lighter material and
fitted with the A-6 fuel system in order to achieve a range of 400
miles. The control was to be by accelerometer during the early part
of the trajectory and then by radio during the glide phase. The
missle was to be continuously monitored by 2 radar stations to give a
constant fix on its location and when directly above the target,
would be commanded into a vertical dive. It was hoped that this
configuration of trajectory would make detection and interception
more difficult.

The design was to go into production until, in 1943, the military
situation demanded a quicker and more easily manufactured solution
and it was abandoned in favor of the A-4. Some reports speak vaguely
about a piloted version to be fitted with a pressurized cabin,
retractable landing gear and controls to permit it to be manually
landed at the end of its flight, but there could have been little
military importance in such a project, and this was probably a post-
war intention rather than a definite project.

                  A-10

A project for a 2-stage rocket conceived in mid-1940. This was a
trans-Atlantic bombardment missle. The A-10 was the first stage and
and A-4 or A-9-the proposals varied-was to be the second stage. The
expected range was in the region of 2800 miles, but, although,
preliminary calculations were carried out, no detailed design work
was done.

    More later.

    All the best.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 08:58:25 -0700
From:    Mark Stanford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NOST: Mitchell Hunters...

On Wed, 13 Apr 1994, Robert J. Granvin wrote:

> Miss Mitchell departs at 0'dark:30 tomorrow (Thursday, 14 April) for
> California (weather permitting).  She's flying out to attend the Annual
> Doolittle Raiders Reunion -- the first year without Jimmy Doolittle.
>
> According to the current schedule, she's supposed to arrive in Chino, CA
> late afternoon 4/14 (perhaps as early as 16:00).  The flight route will
> probably see stops in Goodland, KS and Albuquerque, NM on the way
> there.  If she's forced to overnight somewhere, she's scheduled to
> arrive in Chino no later than noon on Friday, 4/15.
( Stuff Deleted)
> --
> Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
> [email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force
>

I live in Anaheim and I am VERY interested in seeing the "Miss Mitchell".
Due to my work schedule, I won't be able to go to the Chino field on Friday.
I plan on going to Van Nuys and would like to get the updates, if
possible. Also, are there going to be any other aircraft at Van Nuys, and
how firm is the arrival/departure times? Would it be possible to get the
merchandise prices (email?)?. I want to bring plenty of $$$$!

Mark Stanford
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 12:26:09 -0400
From:    Ricky Prado <[email-masked]>
Subject: good riddance

        I am glad to say that I have unsubscribed to this listserv. It
typified many listservs in that it was a personal sounding board for a
select few on a subject they imagine themselves authorities. I was
receiving so many e-mail messages a day that it was clogging up my
account. Just how much of the Internet bandwidth do you use by including
entire messages just to correct a single sentence, or make some such
uninteresting point? And how many times must I look at the message below?
Is it posted on a daily basis? Should I memorize it to save you the
trouble of posting the d**n thing?

        On the whole, my experience with this listserv has been very dis-
appointing. I say good riddance and helloooo disk space!

> COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
> 14 - 17 APRIL 1944
> FTP SITES
>   1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
>   2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
>      wwii_chronology
>
> AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
>   A-20, Douglas Havoc
>   A-36, North American Apache
>   B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
>   B-24, Consolidated Liberator
>   B-25, North American Mitchell
>   B-26, Martin Marauder
>   B-29, Boeing Superfortress
>   L-4, Piper Cub/Grasshopper
>   L-5, Stinson Sentinel
>   P-38, Lockheed Lightning
>   P-39, Bell Airacobra
>   P-40, Curtiss
>   P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
>   P-51, North American Mustang
>
> FRIDAY, 14 APRIL 1944
>
> AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS
>
>   ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 3 B-24s fly armed photo reconnaissance mission
> during early the morning over Matsuwa, Onnekotan, and Paramushiru Islands,
> Kurile Islands. Photographs taken are negative due to cloud cover.
>
> CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS
>
>   BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 20 P-40s over the Mogaung Valley
> attack a camp at Manywet; 20 P-51s and 3 B-25s support ground forces in the
> Mawlu area.
>
> EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)
>
>   STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 350th and 351st Fighter Squadrons,
> 353d Fighter Group, move from Metfield to Raydon, England with P-47s.
>
>   TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Moves in England: HQ 363d Fighter
> Group and 380th, 381st and 382d Fighter Squadrons from Rivenhall to
> Staplehurst with P-51s; 355th Fighter Squadron, 354th Fighter Group, from
> Boxted to Lashenden with P-51s.
>
> MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)
>
>   TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s attack Viterbo
> Airfield and Leghorn marshalling yard, B-26s strike at Poggibonsi, Certaldo,
> Cecina and Magra, attacking mostly rail facilities and hit Arezzo bridge and
> viaduct and Bucine viaducts; fighter-bombers also concentrate on rail lines
> and bridges and hit many supply dumps, gun positions and factories, generally
> located NE of Rome.
>   HQ 340th Bombardment Group (Medium) moves from Paestum, Italy to Corsica.
>
> PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): A single B-24, enroute from
> Kwajalein Atoll to Tarawa Atoll, bombs Jaluit Atoll; B-25s from Eniwetok
> Atoll bomb Ponape Island while B-25s from Abemama Island strike Jaluit and
> Maloelap Atolls, using Majuro Atoll as an arming station between strikes;
> Japanese bombers carry out an ineffective raid on Eniwetok Atoll.
>   26th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 11th Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves
> from Tarawa Atoll to Kwajalein Atoll with B-24s.
>
> SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): 19 B-24s on a mission to
> the Caroline Islands bomb Eten, Param, and Kuop Islands and targets of
> opportunity in Truk Atoll. On New Britain Island, 24 B-25s and 40+ fighter-
> bombers blast a supply area at Ratawul; and 8 other fighter-bombers hit
> Wunapope. 20+ fighter-bombers strike various targets in the NE part of
> Bougainville Island.
>
> SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, B-25s and
> P-39s hit barges and luggers in Vanimo Harbor and at Bogia.
>   673d Bombardment Squadron (Light), 417th Bombardment Group (Light), moves
> from Dobodura to Saidor, New Guinea with A-20s.
>
> SATURDAY, 15 APRIL 1944
>
> AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS
>
>   ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): During the night of 14/15 Apr 3 B-24s on armed
> reconnaissance mission over Matsuwa and Onnekotan Islands hit several targets
> including Matsuwa Airfield; reconnaissance over Paramushiru Island fails due
> to overcast.
>
> CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS
>
>   BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): 12 B-24s over the Andaman Islands attack
> shipping and other targets at Port Blair. 12 P-38s hit Heho Airfield, Burma,
> destroying several parked airplanes.
>   19th Liaison Squadron, US Army Forces, CBI, arrives at Kanchrapara, India
> with L-5s (first mission is in Jun 44).
>
>   CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): 3 B-25s knock out a bridge at Viet Tri,
> French Indochina, and damage another.
>
> EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)
>
>   STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 303: 616 fighters are
> dispatched on strafing sweeps of C and W Germany, airfields being the primary
> objectives; 33 fighters are lost. Details are:
>   1. 132 P-38s claim 7-0-2 Luftwaffe aircraft; 11 P-38s are lost and 16
> damaged; 11 pilots are MIA.
>   2. 262 P-47s claim 20-1-23 Luftwaffe aircraft; 7 P-47s are lost, 1 damaged
> beyond repair and 13 damaged; 7 pilots are MIA.
>   3. 222 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s claim 30-0-10 Luftwaffe aircraft;
> 15 P-51s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 5 damaged; 12 pilots are MIA.
>
>   TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Moves in England: HQ 100th Fighter
> Wing from Ibsley to Lashenden; HQ 397th Bombardment Group (Medium) and 596th,
> 597th, 598th and 599th Bombardment Squadrons (Medium) from Gosfield to
> Rivenhall with B-26s (first mission is 20 Apr); 377th, 378th and 379th
> Fighter Squadrons, 362d Fighter Group, from Wormingford to Headcorn with
> P-47s.
>
> MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)
>
>   STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): Clearing weather again permits
> bomber operations. 448 B-17s and B-24s attack marshalling yards; B-17s hit
> Ploesti, Rumania and Nis, Yugoslavia; B-24s hit Bucharest, Rumania; 150+
> fighters provide escort.
>   A special group, led by Lieutenant Colonel Louis A Neveleff, flies from
> HQ at Bari, Italy to Medeno Polji, Yugoslavia and from there the group
> proceeds to Marshall Tito's HQ at Drvar, where Colonel Neveleff confers with
> Tito and spends several days laying the groundwork for the evacuation of
> downed US airmen in Yugoslav hands. Also, much information is gathered
> regarding the military organization and political trend of the partisan
> movement. The mission returns to Italy on 2 May and 122 men, mostly Fifteenth
> Air Force airmen, are also evacuated.
>
>   TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers strike a
> marshalling yard at Leghorn and a tunnel and railroad bridges in C Italy;
> P-47s attack rail lines, bridges and ammunition dumps NE of Rome with good
> results; other P-47s, P-40s and A-36s hit numerous targets, including rail
> lines, motor transport shop, vehicles, tanks and gun positions, in C Italy
> and in the US Fifth Army battle areas.
>   XII Air Support Command is redesignated XII Tactical Air Command.
>   Moves in Italy: HQ 332d Fighter Group and 301st Fighter Squadron from
> Montecorvino to Capodichino with P-39s; 486th Bombardment Squadron (Medium),
> 340th Bombardment Group (Medium), from Gaudo Airfield to Alesan, Corsica with
> B-25s.
>
> PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): Major General Robert W Douglass
> Jr becomes Commanding General Seventh Air Force.
>   B-25s, based on Tarawa Atoll, bomb Maloelap Atoll, rearm at Majuro Atoll
> and hit Jaluit and Mille Atolls on the return trip.
>
> SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On New Britain Island, 24
> B-25s bomb an ammunition dump on Talili Bay; 11 P-39s follow with a strike on
> the same target; 3 P-38s fire the Wunapope supply area; other fighter-bomber
> strikes on the same area are cancelled by weather. A few P-38s hit targets
> in the NE part of Bougainville Island.
>   72d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 5th Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from
> Munda, New Georgia Island to Momote Airfield, Los Negros Island with B-24s.
>
> SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 180+ B-24s,
> B-25s and A-20s bomb landing strips, off-shore islands and the entire coastal
> area in the vicinity of Aitape; 16 P-40s strafe barges at nearby Seleo
> Island; 20 P-39s hit villages, supply dumps, trucks and other targets along
> Hansa Bay and in the Alexishafen area.
>
> SUNDAY, 16 APRIL 1944
>
> CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS
>
>   BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 12 B-25s hit a bridge over the
> Mogaung River while 9 others, along with 12 P-51s, hit a warehouse and
> railroad station at Mohnyin; 9 P-38s destroy 3 medium bombers at Zayatkwin
> near Rangoon while 2 P-51s in the Mandalay area hit Anisakan Airfield,
> destroying 2 airplanes.
>
>   STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (XX Bomber Command): 768th Bombardment Squadron (Very
> Heavy), 462d Bombardment Group (Very Heavy), arrives at Piardoba, India with
> B-29s; first mission is 5 Jun.
>
> EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)
>
>   STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): HQ 55th Fighter Group and 338th
> and 343d Fighter Squadrons move from Nuthampstead to Wormingford, England
> with P-38s.
>
>   TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): HQ 410th Bombardment Group (Light)
> and 644th, 645th, 646th and 647th Bombardment Squadrons (Light) move from
> Birch to Gosfield, England with A-20s; first mission is 4 May.
>
> MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)
>
>   STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 31st Fighter Group with P-51s
> (transferred from Twelfth Air Force on 1 Apr) begins operations. It becomes
> the fifth operational fighter group of the Fifteenth Air Force.
>   432 B-17s and B-24s hit targets in Rumania and Yugoslavia; B-17s bomb the
> industrial area at Belgrade, Yugoslavia and an aircraft plant at Brasov,
> Rumania; B-24s hit marshalling yards at Brasov and Turnu Severin, Rumania;
> 90+ fighters fly escort while 50+ others, failing to rendezvous with the
> bombers, strafe trains on the Craiova line E of Turnu Severin.
>
>   TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s bomb approaches to
> Ficulle and Todi railway bridges; A-20s blast fuel supplies; P-40s, P-47s and
> A-36s hit the Capranica viaduct, town of Zagarolo, railway at Spigno
> Monferrato, marshalling yard at Orte-Terni, tunnel at Capranica and tracks,
> vehicles, railway cars, ammunition dump, bridge, and targets of opportunity
> at various points in C Italy.
>
> PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-25s, staging through Eniwetok
> Atoll, strike Truk Atoll; B-25s from Abemama Island hit Maloelap and Mille
> Atolls, using Majuro Atoll as a rearming base between the strikes.
>
> SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): 15 B-24s bomb the runway at
> Satawan Atoll, Caroline Islands. On New Britain Island, 24 B-25s hit the
> Ratawul supply area and alternate target of Raluana; at Rabaul 30+ fighter-
> bombers attack area inland from Toboi wharf.
>   23d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 5th Bombardment Group (Heavy), moves from
> Munda, New Georgia Island to Momote Airfield, Los Negros Island with B-24s.
>
> SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 170+ B-24s,
> B-25s and A-20s bomb Hollandia town and airfield and numerous other targets
> in the area; P-39s hit a wooded area and communications targets along Hansa
> Bay and attack villages and supply dumps from Bogia to Uligan Harbor; P-38s
> hit Madang area; B-24s fly a light strike against Wakde Island; other
> aircraft, operating singly or in pairs, attack targets of opportunity on the
> N coast of New Guinea and SE coast of New Britain Island. Other B-25s bomb
> Koepang on Timor Island.
>
> MONDAY, 17 APRIL 1944
>
> CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS
>
>   BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 6 P-51s support ground forces near
> Meza; 9 P-38s destroy several airplanes at Heho Airfield while 5 B-24s bomb
> Ywataung; 26 B-25s and 36 P-51s support ground forces at Mawlu and bomb a
> fuel dump at Kin; 13 other P-51s are diverted to intercept a Japanese force
> over the Imphal, India area and claim 3 airplanes shot down.
>
> EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)
>
>   STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 304: 14 of 15 B-24s bomb
> the V-weapon site at Wizernes, France without loss; escort is provided by 33
> P-47s.
>   Mission 305: 5 of 5 B-17s drop 1.48 million leaflets on Rennes, Brest,
> Nantes, Lorient and St Nazaire, France at 2248-2258 hours without loss.
>   HQ 493d Bombardment Group (Heavy) and 860th, 861st, 862d and 863d
> Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) move from Elveden Hall to Debach, England with
> B-24s; first mission is 6 Jun.
>
>   TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Unit moves in England: HQ 70th
> Fighter Wing from Boxted to Ibsley; and HQ 354th Fighter Group and 353d and
> 356th Fighter Squadrons from Boxted to Lashenden with P-51s.
>
> MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)
>
>   AAF, MTO: 121st Liaison Squadron, AAF, MTO moves from Oran to Telergma,
> Algeria with L-4s and L-5s; first mission is in Sep 44.
>
>   STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 470 B-17s and B-24s hit targets
> in Bulgaria and Yugoslavia; B-17s bomb the industrial area, air depot and
> marshalling yard at Belgrade, Yugoslavia; B-24s bomb the marshalling yard at
> Sofia, Bulgaria; 200+ fighters escort the missions; US aircraft claim 25
> enemy aircraft downed in combat.
>
>   TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s attack bridges N
> of Orte and at Monte Molino, while A-20s pound a fuel dump NE of Rome; P-40,
> P-47 and A-36 fighter-bombers hit motor transport stores and gun positions N
> of Anzio, bomb Fara in Sabina station, hit tracks, trains and guns in the
> Orte and Narni area and at other points N of Rome.
>
> PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-25s, based on Tarawa Atoll,
> strike Maloelap and Mille Atolls, rearming at Majuro Atoll between the raids.
>
> SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): 20 B-24s bomb the airfield
> at Satawan Atoll. On New Britain Island, 24 B-25s pound runway and revetments
> at Rapopo Airfield; 40+ fighter-bombers hit Matupi with incendiaries while 10
> others pound the runway at Keravat.
>
> SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): 20+ B-24s bomb storage areas
> and troop concentrations in Kai Island, Moluccas Islands. In New Guinea,
> P-39s attack AA positions at Bogia; other planes, operating individually or
> in pairs, attack Hollandia, Uligan Harbor and vicinity and the Madang area.
>   674th Bombardment Squadron (Light), 417th Bombardment Group (Light), moves
> from Dobodura to Saidor, New Guinea with A-20s.
>
> SOURCES:
> AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
>   Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
> COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
>   History, Headquarters USAF 1982
> THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
>   Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
> THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2
>
> Jack McKillop
> USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
> 1955-59
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
> |  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
> |  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
> |  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 12:04:11 -0500
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRV: champagne

In message World War II Discussion List writes:
>         For a while, this was marginally associated with WWII (with the
> Treaty of Versailles connection).  That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
> Perhaps the topic could be moved to the wine connosisseur mailing list? :-)
> Thanks.

Are you saying that WWII research and discussion doesn't drive you to drink
every now and then?

:-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                             [email-masked]
University of Minnesota, School of Statistics
         "I'm my father?  I'm my mother?  I'm chipped beef on toast?"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 13:32:07 -0400
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: good riddance

Mr. Prado,

        Simply unsubscribing would have been sufficient.  Considering that
several members lived through and a few actually fought in this conflict,
while others have made the topic a lifetime advocation and vocation, I must
point out that you are way off base.  I don't recall you contributing much
to this list except for this imflammatory message.  I find your premise that
being helpful and willing to share information is nothing more than an
opportunity to show off truly bizarre.  Do you resent the knowledge that
others have?  Only on one point are we in agreement: good riddance.

--
Joe Barone, WWII-L owner
[email-masked]

PS: Since I haven't received your unsubscribe notification yet, I've
taken the liberty of honoring your wish.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 13:49:02 -0400
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Kasserine

Don Bowden writes:
> ... Kasserine Pass battle was a tactical defeat at the divisional, corps
> level for the Americans in their first large scale action in WWII. ...
> The major genuine defeat of the American Army in WWII was in the
> Phillipines which I believe only had 1-2 US Army divisions.

Right, basically one US Army div and a couple independent battalions of
cavalry, tanks, etc. But there were about 10 Philippine divisions!

> If it hadn't been for the political pull of McArthur, even these men
> wouldn't have been lost in what was considered a strategically
> indefensible position by the American Chiefs of Staff for years.

I doubt it. The folks in Washington DC were against the idea of MacArthur
forming a large Philippine army (10-12 divisions). The one US division
would almost surely have stayed...where else you gonna deploy The
Philippine Scouts?  :-)
All Mac's whining got out of DC was a couple extra battalions.

Mac's plan was to form a large force that could crush any invaders (Luzon
would be held by maybe 6 divisions). The Japanese could probably not land
more than about 2-3 division before the US Luzon forces could arrive at
the landing site to fight them at overwhelming odds (Japanese performance
against the USSR and Chinese had lead most folks to rate Japanese skill as
less than that of US troops). The Philippines would be somewhat self-
sufficient, and thus if ammo/medical supplies/etc were stockpiled, the US
forces might hold out for a couple years until the US Navy was once again
able to get thru.

But there were problems with this plan. The folks in DC were against it,
and thus Mac had a real battle to get any support for the Philippine
army (equipment was in extremely short supply...lacking in basics like
rifles and uniforms let alone artillery, radios, etc). The only folks
in DC interested in the Philippines were the USAAF, and they had their
own plan (basically they viewed the islands as a nice base for a strategic
airwar against Japan rather than as something they were there to defend).
But the main problem was probably that of timing...Mac had grossly mis-
estimated the time he had available to get his army together...the war
came about 2 years too soon. The Philippine troops entered battle grossly
under-trained and under-equipped, and thus performed poorly. And Mac
made some un-timely changes in the command structure leading to lots
of confusion.

Mac had over-estimated the effectiveness of his troops and thus went ahead
with his attack to drive the Japanese into the sea. Not only was this a
disaster for the attacking troops, but Mac had started redeploying his
supplies forward to support the attack, and thus when the rout came he had
a very hard time getting them moved into Bataan. So he ended up on the
Bataan penninsula with a mix of good and worthless troops (mouths to feed
and deserters to guard against), reduced supplies, etc...

> ... the 45th Div. attempt to cross the Rapido in Italy
          ^^ 36th I think

> PS. I have been reading a book which keeps talking about the SS Gross
> Deutschland division. I thought the divsion of this name was not SS, but
> a more or less elite division of the Wehrmacht. Anyone know for sure?

There was more than one GD division. In late 1944 or early 1945 a GD Panzer
Div was formed for the defense of Germany and used in the fighting along the
Oder river. I think much of this div was SS.

The famous GD division was not SS, but it was organized more like an SS
div than an army div.

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Thu Apr 14 1994 ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 12:02:14 -0500
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NOST: Mitchell Hunters...

In message <Pine.3.85.9404140825.A28771-0100000@netcom2> Mark Stanford writes:
>
>
> On Wed, 13 Apr 1994, Robert J. Granvin wrote:
>
> > Miss Mitchell departs at 0'dark:30 tomorrow (Thursday, 14 April) for
> > California (weather permitting).  She's flying out to attend the Annual
> > Doolittle Raiders Reunion -- the first year without Jimmy Doolittle.
> >
> > According to the current schedule, she's supposed to arrive in Chino, CA
> > late afternoon 4/14 (perhaps as early as 16:00).  The flight route will
> > probably see stops in Goodland, KS and Albuquerque, NM on the way
> > there.  If she's forced to overnight somewhere, she's scheduled to
> > arrive in Chino no later than noon on Friday, 4/15.
>
> I live in Anaheim and I am VERY interested in seeing the "Miss Mitchell".
> Due to my work schedule, I won't be able to go to the Chino field on Friday.
> I plan on going to Van Nuys and would like to get the updates, if
> possible. Also, are there going to be any other aircraft at Van Nuys, and
> how firm is the arrival/departure times? Would it be possible to get the
> merchandise prices (email?)?. I want to bring plenty of $$$$!

Van Nuys is really the start of the big airplane event.  The times are very
firm (weather dependent) for Saturday and Sunday.

Apparently, the schedule at Van Nuys starts about 10:00 a.m.  The "no later
than" departure time for the aircraft of 2:00 p.m. Saturday is actually the
time when all aircraft will be ordered to start engines -- simultaneously.

Current word is that there should be about 8 B-25s and a dozen or so Mustangs.
I haven't heard any recent updates to those numbers.

The flight leader is Carl Scholl from Chino.  Someone at Chino or Eagle
Field Museum should have all the scheduling details to the minute.  :-)

PX stuff varies in price.  :-)  I know that we are carrying Miss Mitchell
hats ($8.00) and T-shirts ($20) along with some books and other "stuff."
I have no idea what other people are carrying, but you can be fairly certain
that some of them are carrying trinkets, beads and bells.  :-)

I'm hoping to hear (either via email or the list if it's globally interesting)
any witness reports this weekend...

(BTW: Miss Mitchell left on schedule at legal dawn this morning via the
northern route, taking it into Colorado Springs and then Chino... Mountain
hopping.  Cool... :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                             [email-masked]
University of Minnesota, School of Statistics
         "I'm my father?  I'm my mother?  I'm chipped beef on toast?"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 14:09:07 -0400
From:    "Mr. Scott Hannon" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Kasserine

Terry Moore writes:
> BTW, it was the 36th "Texas" Division which was virtually wiped out
> trying to cross the Rapido. This division never recovered
> psychologically from that fiasco.

The 36th ID went on to fight in France and Germany in 1944/45 with the
US 7th Army, where it was probably second in effectiveness only to the
elite 3rd ID. But right, the div never forgot about Italy. There is at
least one book just on the Rapido river crossing fiasco, and another on
the div in Italy. Plus the divisional history.

The 45th ID had also fought in Italy for a while before ending up in the
US 7th Army (w/36th ID).

Scott.
Scott Hannon, Thu Apr 14 1994 ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 14:12:06 -0400
From:    Walter O'Hara <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Kasserine

> the Brandenburgers, later Pz Gren Div Brandenburg
> Pz Div Kurmark
> the Fuhrer Begleit (Escort) brigade
> the Fuhrer Grenadier brigade
>
> Barry
>
> Barrett F. Lowe               RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
> MAJ, IN
> Dept of Physics, West Point  (e-mail:  [email-masked])

Barry:

Weren't the Brandenburgers some form of WW2 German Special Warfare group?
Some form of Commando, maybe?  I seem to recall the existence of some
special group under that name that specialized in infiltration tactics on
the Eastern Front.

Walt
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 10:20:02 CDT
From:    Michael P LaForge <[email-masked]>
Subject: Champagne vs. Sekt

the word you are looking for is Sekt

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 13:48:42 -0400
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ricky's Lament

Regarding Ricky Prado's last (only?) post to the list....

Well, jeez, what'd we say to tee him off?  What the heck did he
*expect* from a discussion list - textbooks?  I'm sorry if I/we
offended him somehow, but on the other hand, I don't recall him
posting any witty repartee either.

And Jack, keep those USAAF 50 years ago posts coming if you please;
I *like* reading them.

Dennis E. Sparks
[email-masked]
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 15:54:00 -0400
From:    Ron Babuka <[email-masked]>
Subject: USAAF

I wish I had kept the last posting from Mr. McKillop (sometimes one is
quick to discard when one should not be) but If I recall properly that days
fighter sweeps seemed to be quite costly in terms of Luftwaffe aircraft
destroyed versus USAAF aircraft lost/damaged.  Was that days numbers
representative of most fighter sweeps in ETO?  If so I can understand a
little bit better why these sweeps were not the most loved missions with
pilots.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka                                         National Warplane Museum
Cornell University                                 Geneseo, New York
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 15:20:16 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Kasserine

Hello, Walt!
>
> Weren't the Brandenburgers some form of WW2 German Special Warfare group?
> Some form of Commando, maybe?  I seem to recall the existence of some
> special group under that name that specialized in infiltration tactics on
> the Eastern Front.

    Yes. But that came later. The Brandenburgers went on to be
constituted as a division which became the sister division to the GD.
A Colonel Hippel established this unit that operated under the
auspices of the Abwehr, or German Intelligence. Alexander von
Pfuhlstein later became the CO of the division.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

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Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 15:22:04 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ricky's Lament

Hello Dennis and others!

> And Jack, keep those USAAF 50 years ago posts coming if you please;
> I *like* reading them.

    Amen to that! Jack has done a marvelous job keeping us informed
of what happened 50 years ago.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

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Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 14:41:36 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF

Back then, ground-attack fighter sweeps were called, "Rhubarbs".
Because of the laxative effect on pilots.
:-)

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Date:    Thu, 14 Apr 1994 20:31:37 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MISC RUSFRONT.ZIP

RUSFRONT.ZIP has been moved to /pub/history/military/simulations at
byrd.mu.wvnet.edu.

I should have posted a note to the list when I moved it, but I'm currently
in a life-or-death struggle with a bibliographic essay (and losing).

Anyone who has shareware or public domain simulations of historical value
is encouraged to upload them to the /pub/history/submissions directory at
byrd for relocation.

TIA
Larry "Reports of my death are greatly exaggerated" J

[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

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End of WWII-L Digest - 13 Apr 1994 to 14 Apr 1994
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