Subject: WWII-L Digest - 7 Apr 1994 to 8 Apr 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 00:01:23 -0400

There are 40 messages totalling 1378 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. vietnam war
  2. war & music: Laibach (5)
  3. GEN: BGen R.L. Scott, Jr (part 2) (3)
  4. INF: USAAF 8-10 APR 44
  5. WWII air show in Baton Rouge, LA (5)
  6. Hs-293
  7. Black Widow
  8. INF: Collar Tabs (2)
  9. Pacific-inferior equipment? (4)
 10. SPAIN'S FRANCO AND "K
 11. VET: Search for German vet by name?
 12. HELP: CONTACT
 13. RCAF (4)
 14. WWII German radio tech, size, range ...
 15. INF: German II collar tabs.
 16. USAAF Regulations Question (5)
 17. HELP(IMHO...) (2)
 18. War and Music

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Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 02:51:01 EDT
From:    John Sloan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: vietnam war

HI Raymond,  Guess what, there is a Vietnam war list as well run from Univ of
Buffalo also. same listserv as this but put SUBSCRIBE VWAR-L
John Sloan

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Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:03:45 MET
From:    Ireneusz Jakobik <[email-masked]>
Subject: war & music: Laibach

Someone on the list wrote about Joy Division. I remember that few months ago
someone else mentioned song titled "Tigers are burning" (I don't recall
who recorded it). Other group Alien Sex Fiend recorded song "Hurricane
Fighter Plane"; I'll have to listen to it to get words. (lots of song texts
from many, many singers and bands are available at cs.uwp.edu ftp site,
directory: /pub/music/lyrics/ ).
There's also group Laibach, which image is very nazi-like. They wore dark
brown shirts and ties and their music is very totalitary. Guys are from
Slovenia (former Yugoslavia).
Here's text from their song "The Great Seal" from "Opus Dei" CD:
  We shall go on to the end
  We shall fight on the sees and the oceans
  We shall fight in the growing confidence and growing strength in the air
  We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be
  We shall fight on the beaches
  We shall fight on the landing ground
  We shall fight in the fields and in the streets
  We shall fight in the hills
  We shall never surrender...
That's all. Sorry if anyone was annoyed by my mail :)
Irek.

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Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:58:07 GMT,BST
From:    John Gillies <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: war & music: Laibach

Irek Jakobik writes:

> Someone on the list wrote about Joy Division. I remember that few months ago
> someone else mentioned song titled "Tigers are burning" (I don't recall
> who recorded it). Other group Alien Sex Fiend recorded song "Hurricane
> Fighter Plane"; I'll have to listen to it to get words. (lots of song texts
> from many, many singers and bands are available at cs.uwp.edu ftp site,
> directory: /pub/music/lyrics/ ).
> There's also group Laibach, which image is very nazi-like. They wore dark
> brown shirts and ties and their music is very totalitary. Guys are from
> Slovenia (former Yugoslavia).
> Here's text from their song "The Great Seal" from "Opus Dei" CD:
>   We shall go on to the end
>   We shall fight on the sees and the oceans
>   We shall fight in the growing confidence and growing strength in the air
>   We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be
>   We shall fight on the beaches
>   We shall fight on the landing ground
>   We shall fight in the fields and in the streets
>   We shall fight in the hills
>   We shall never surrender...
> That's all. Sorry if anyone was annoyed by my mail :)
> Irek.

OK - I'll bite. A band with a "nazi" image sings a song based on
Churchill's "We shall fight on the beaches" speech? - What is the
message here, Irek?
John

John Gillies
Department of Psychology
Adam Smith Building
University of Glasgow
Glasgow  G12 8RT                      Tel: (0)41 339 8855 ext.5351
Scotland
                         [email-masked]

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Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 12:58:12 CET
From:    "LTC Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: BGen R.L. Scott, Jr (part 2)

Here's the second, and last, excerpt from the article I mentioned
yesterday:

Scott said his most memorable mission happened around Christmas 1942.

They had received word that a Japanese bomber strike force was en route.
Scott's unit scrambled 18 aircraft and climbed to 19,000 feet.

"Coming out of the sun, we could see the Japanese formation," he said.
"Pure arrogance -- they didn't even bring a fighter escort.  We went straight
in and shot down every one of their bombers (19 of them).  But we lost
the battle because we lost two pilots and two airplanes and just didn't
have the resources to replace them."

In that exchange, Scott personally had one of his best flying days,
which he highlights in his book, "The Day I Owned the Sky".

"I went for the lead ship," he said, recreating the scene with hand
gestures.  "I got so close, the enemy bomber filled my windshield.
That way you don't have to aim.  I just did a short burst and dove under
the Janapese ship.  He went down in flames.  Then I went after his
wingman and shot him down.  A lot of them were going down by this time,
and I went after the ones trying to get away."

Scott credits his combat success to two things: advice from his grandpa
and Chennault.

"My grandpa always told me that when you're hunting quail, never shoot
at the covey," the fighter pilot explained. "He siad you need to pick out
one quail and take him out.  Then concentrate on another.  The same thing
goes for air combat. Don't shoot at the formation.  Pick out one aircraft
at a time."  Scott said Chennault was a master at this.

"Chennault's units had a 14-1 kill ratio," he pointed out.  "He was a great
commander.  I met him, and I lived happily ever after."

Chennault's advice came in handy on more than one occasion.  "One time
I was flying and heard an unidentified noise," Scott said.  "I went
to the top of the clouds to check it out.  I saw a lone airplane in
front of me so I got my guns ready and started to go for it.  Then I
remembered something General Chennault told me.  He said, "Scotty, if
you ever see a lone airplane, always look up into the sun to see if
there's an escort.'"

Too late, he looked up and spotted two zeros."

"I was already committed so I wentr in," he said, shaking his head at
the error.  "I shot down the bomber, hitting it in exactly the right
place -- where the wing and fuselage meet.  Then I headed for the
clouds.  As I went into this thick overcast, I knew the Zeros were
right behind me.  So just as I came out of the cloud cover, I did
the fastest turn I'd ever done in my life.  A Zero was headed right
for me, and I shot it down.  Then I took out the other."

Quoted from AIRMAN magazine, Mar 94.   Scott also said "The cockpit of
the P-40 was the only office I ever liked and the only desk I ever
appreciated".
                         Doug Donnell

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 07:14:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 8-10 APR 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 8 APRIL 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  F-7, Consolidated Liberator
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, nearly 100 fighter-bombers and 2
B-25s again pound Mogaung Valley targets, including Manywet, storage areas
and railroad at Mogaung, positions at Shaduzup and general targets of
opportunity around Kamaing; 4 B-25s damage bridge and track at Sittang.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): 11 B-24s bomb railroad yards at Hanoi, French
Indochina. In China, 6 B-25s damage several small ships in Yulinkan Bay; 2
others strafe an airfield on Weichow Island; 8 P-40s pound oil dumps at
Wanling, leaving the target area in flames. 9 B-24s bomb the airfield on
Samah Bay, Hainan Island; 4 others lay mines in the bay.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 291: 3 separate forces, a
total of 664 bombers divided into 13 combat wings, escorted by 780 fighters,
are dispatched against airfields in NW Germany and aircraft factories in the
Brunswick area; 34 bombers and 23 fighters are lost.
  1. 59 of 59 B-17s hit Oldenburg Airfield; 32 B-17s are damaged; casualties
are 5 WIA.
  2. 255 B-17s are dispatched to Achmer, Quakenbruck and Rheine Airfields; 83
hit Quakenbruck, 60 hit Achmer, 41 hit Rheine, 22 hit Twente Enschede, 21 hit
Hesepe, 19 hit Handorf and 3 hit targets of opportunity; 4 B-17s are lost and
128 damaged; casualties are 1 KIA, 3 WIA and 40 MIA.
  3. 350 B-24s are dispatched to aviation industry targets in Brunswick; 190
hit the primary, 59 hit Rosslingen, 48 hit Langenhagen Airfield and 6 hit
targets of opportunity; they claim 58-9-32 Luftwaffe aircraft; 30 B-24s are
lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 87 damaged; casualties are 8 KIA, 23 WIA
and 300 MIA.
  Escort is provided by 136 P-38s, 438 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and
206 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s; the fighters claim 88-3-46 Luftwaffe
aircraft in the air and 49-6-38 on the ground. Details are:
  1. P-38s: 5 as lost and 3 damaged; 5 pilots are MIA.
  2. P-47s: 4 are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 12 damaged; 4 pilots are
MIA.
  3. P-51s: 14 are lost and 3 damaged; 14 pilots are MIA.
  Mission 292: 5 of 5 B-17s drop 1 million leaflets on Liege, Brussels,
Ghent, Antwerp, and Mont-sur-Sombre, Belgium at 2215-2227 hours without loss.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In Belgium, 198 B-26s attack Hasselt
marshalling yard and hit Coxyde Airfield; and 32 P-47s bomb the area around
Hasselt.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): HQ 484th Bombardment Group
(Heavy) and 824th and 827th Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) arrive at Torretto
Airfield, Italy from the US with B-24s; first mission is 29 Apr.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers attack a
bridge NW of Orte while A-20s successfully attack supply stores; fighter-
bombers hit several bridges, motor transport, and supply dumps in C Italy,
and bomb railroad tracks at Sesti Bagni and Maccarese.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-24s flying out of Kwajalein
Atoll, strike Truk Atoll; Abemama Island-based B-25s pound Ponape Island;
B-25s from Tarawa Atoll hit Maloelap Atoll, rearm at Majuro Atoll and bomb
Jaluit Atoll during the return flight.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): During the night of 7/8 Apr
6 B-25s heckle the Kavieng Airfield area on New Ireland Island. On New
Britain Island, 50+ fighter-bombers hit the NE section of Rabaul and 24 B-25s
bomb the center of Lakunai Airfield. 4 B-24s again pound Monoitu Mission on
Bougainville Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, P-40s attack
targets of opportunity in the Aitape-Wewak area; and A-20s hit targets in the
Hansa Bay area, firing a fuel dump and destroying several warehouses and
other buildings at 3 plantations and strafing and bombing roads and bridges
along the coast.
  HQ 417th Bombardment Group (Light) moves from Dobodura to Saidor, New
Guinea.

SUNDAY, 9 APRIL 1944

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): A weather sortie over Matsuwa Island is
negative due to low clouds and fog.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, the Mogaung Valley is pounded by
100+ fighter-bombers and a few B-25s; the aircraft hit town areas, bridges,
storage areas, support ground forces, and hit targets of opportunity in
general in or near Mogaung, Kamaing, Laban, Hopin, Myitkyina, and Nsopzup; 25
B-25s and P-51s hit fuel dumps at Indaw, bomb a road near Manhton and support
ground forces at Lasai; 6 B-24s bomb Mandalay railroad yards, another bombs
nearby Maymyo, and 13 others mine areas near Mandalay and Magwe; also in the
Mandalay area, 11 P-38s damage several locomotives, numerous railroad cars
and set a steamer afire near Ywataung.
  The detachment of the 24th Combat Mapping Squadron, Tenth Air Force,
operating from Hsinching, China transfers to Jorhat, India with F-7s; the
squadron is based at Guskhara, India.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 2 B-25s claim a 200-ft (61 m)
tanker sunk off Cape Bastion and 3 fighters shot down over Yulinkan Bay.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 293: 542 bombers and 719
fighters are dispatched against aircraft factories and airfields in Germany
and Poland; the bombers claim 45-8-14 Luftwaffe aircraft; 32 bombers and 10
fighters are lost; 10 bombers are damaged beyond repair. Details are:
  1. 145 B-17s are dispatched to aviation industry at Rahmel, Poland and
Marienburg, Germany; 96 hit Marienburg, 41 hit Rahmel and 3 hit targets of
opportunity; 6 B-17s are lost and 44 damaged; casualties are 8 KIA, 9 WIA and
60 MIA.
  2. 151 B-17s are dispatched to hit the Focke-Wulf plant at Poznan, Poland
and the Heinkel plant at Warnemunde, Germany; 85 hit Warnemunde, 33 hit
Poznan and 18 hit Marienehe Airfield; 12 B-17s are lost and 93 damaged;
casualties are 6 WIA and 120 MIA.
  3. 246 B-24s are dispatched to hit an assembly plant at Tutow, Germany; 106
hit the primary, 14 hit Parchim, Germany and 6 hit targets of opportunity; 14
B-24s are lost and 30 damaged; casualties are 17 KIA, 6 WIA and 140 MIA.
  Escort is provided by 119 P-38s, 387 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and
213 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s; the fighters claim 20-1-6 Luftwaffe
aircraft in the air and 19-0-8 on the ground; no fighter support is available
over the targets because of bad weather or distance; details are:
  P-38s: 2 are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 9 damaged; casualties are 1
KIA and 2 MIA.
  P-47s: 4 are lost, 1 is damaged beyond repair and 2 damaged; casualties are
2 KIA, 2 WIA and 3 MIA.
  P-51s: 4 are lost and 1 damaged beyond repair; 1 pilot is MIA.
  Mission 294: 5 of 5 B-17s drop 2.752 million leaflets on Rouen, Paris,
Amiens and Caen, France at 2224-2338 hours without loss.
  23 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER operations.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 14th Liaison Squadron, US Strategic
Air Forces in Europe (attached to US Third Army), arrives at Alderley Edge,
England from the US with L-5s; first mission is in Jul.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 815th, 816th, 817th and 840th
Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy), 483d Bombardment Group (Heavy), arrive at
Sterparone Airfield, Italy from the US with B-17s; first mission is 12 Apr.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, P-40 and A-36 fighter-
bombers bomb the railroad line between Rome and Bracciano, hitting tracks, a
station, and a warehouse; attack Littoria and Terracina, repair shops NW of
Valmontone and several gun positions; and bomb scattered motor transport
during armed reconnaissance of the Avezzano-Sora-Pontecorvo-Ceprano areas.
  379th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 310th Bombardment Group (Medium),
moves from Ghisonaccia, Corsica to Fano, Italy with B-25s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-24s on a photo reconnaissance
mission over Maloelap, Wotje, and Mille Atolls, Marshall Islands, and a
single Tarawa Atoll-based B-25 bombs Taroa Island, Maloelap Atoll; B-25s, in
a shuttle mission from Abemama Island, bomb Jaluit Atoll, rearm at Majuro
Atoll, and then hit Maloelap Atoll.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On New Britain Island, 23
B-25s bomb Lakunai; 31 fighter-bombers hit Ralum supply areas while 22 others
strike Wunapope; and during the night of 8/9 Apr, 7 B-25s fly heckling
missions against Rabaul.
  394th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 5th Bombardment Group (Heavy), ceases
operating from Munda, New Georgia Island; the squadron is based on
Guadalcanal Island with B-24s.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 55 B-25s bomb
the Aitape area while B-24s and A-20s hit Wewak, Boram, Cape Moem, AA
positions along Hansa Bay, and barges SE of Mushu Island and in the Wagol
River; and P-39s hit troops, barges, and bridges in the Madang, Awar, Bogia
and Bunabun areas.
  675th Bombardment Squadron (Light), 417th Bombardment Group (Light), moves
from Dobodura to Saidor, New Guinea with A-20s.

MONDAY, 10 APRIL 1944

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): In the Kurile Islands, 3 B-24s fly armed
reconnaissance over Matsuwa and Onnekotan Islands.

  CARIBBEAN (Sixth Air Force): 29th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), VI Bomber
Command, moves from the Galapagos Islands to Howard Field, Canal Zone with
B-24s.

  ZONE OF INTERIOR (First Air Force): 1st Search Attack Group and 2d, 3d
and 4th Search Attack Squadrons (Heavy) are disbanded at Langley Field,
Virginia; these units tested equipment and developed techniques and tactics
for ASW, flew ASW patrols and served as an OTU for radar training.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, about 100 fighter-bombers and a
few B-25s pound numerous targets, including an encampment SW of Mogaung,
positions near Kazu, a railroad and truck park at Myitkyina, a supply area S
of Myitkyina, and a bivouac area and supplies at Kamaing; some of the fighter-
bombers carry out support of ground forces NE of Kamaing; 40+ fighter-bombers
and B-25s over the Katha area hit a bridge at Thityabin, troops and supplies
at Shwegu, gun positions and troops S of Mawlu, and targets of opportunity
including a fuel dump; and 9 B-24s bomb the railroad station and jetty area
at Moulmein while 4 others mine the mouth of the Tavoy River.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): 3 B-25s damage 2 bridges at Phu Dien Chau,
French Indochina, and destroy several buildings and some railroad track. 10
P-40s pound roads N and S of Wanling, Burma.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (XX Bomber Command): The Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS)
informally approve Operation MATTERHORN, the plan for the bombing of Japan by
B-29s based in the Calcutta, India area and staging through advanced fields
in the Chengtu, China area, which had been approved in principle by
President Franklin D Roosevelt on 10 Nov 43. The operational vehicle is to be
the 58th Bombardment Wing (Very Heavy) (4 bombardment groups) of the XX
Bomber Command, soon to be assigned to the newly activated Twentieth Air
Force, operating under General of the Army Henry H "Hap"  Arnold as executive
agent for the JCS.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 295: 729 bombers and 496
fighters are dispatched to hit aviation industry targets and airfields in
Belgium and France; 3 bombers and 2 fighters are lost.
  1. 238 B-17s are dispatched to bomb aviation industry targets in Belgium;
123 bomb the aviation industry and airfield at Evere, 52 hit Brussels/
Melsbroek Airfield, 39 hit aviation industry targets at Brussels, and 20 hit
Bergen op Zoom; 1 B-17 is lost and 99 damaged; casualties are 4 WIA and 10
MIA.
  2. 248 B-17s are dispatched to hit aviation industry targets and airfields
in Belgium and France; in Belgium, 62 hit Maldagem Airfield, 60 hit Diest/
Schaffen Airfield and 42 hit Florennes/Juzaine Airfield; in France, 21 hit
Courcelles and 21 hit Beaumont sur Oise Airfield; they claim 0-2-1 Luftwaffe
aircraft; 1 B-17 is lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 19 damaged; casualties
are 10 MIA.
  3. 243 B-24s are dispatched to hit the airfield and aviation industry
targets; in Belgium, 151 hit the airfield and aviation industry at Bourges;
in France, 28 hit Orleans/Bricy Airfield, 21 hit Romarantin Airfield and 15
hit V-weapon sites at Marquise/Mimoyecques; they claim 6-0-0 Luftwaffe
aircraft; 1 B-24 is lost and 3 damaged; casualties are 1 WIA and 10 MIA.
  Escort is provided by 51 P-38s, 295 P-47s and 150 Eighth and Ninth Air
Force P-51s; details are:
  1. P-38s: no claims or losses.
  2. P-47s claim 12-0-7 Luftwaffe aircraft; 1 P-47 is lost and 4 damaged; 1
pilot is MIA.
  3. P-51s claim 40-0-16 Luftwaffe aircraft; 1 P-51 is lost and 1 damaged; 1
pilot is MIA.
  Mission 296: Three forces are dispatched on fighter-bomber missions; all
include P-38 Droopsnoot aircraft:
  1. 39 P-38s are dispatched to attack Florennes/Juzaine Airfield, Belgium;
no losses or claims.
  2. 51 P-38s and 7 P-47s are dispatched to attack St Dizier, France; the
primary is cloud covered and 16 P-38s attack Coulommiers Airfield, France; 2
P-38s are lost and 1 damaged; 2 pilots are MIA; the P-47s claim 2-0-1
Luftwaffe aircraft on the ground.
  3. 28 P-38s and 46 P-47s are dispatched to bomb Gutersloh, Germany; 1 P-38
is lost, the pilot is MIA.
  Mission 297: 5 of 5 B-17s drop 2 million leaflets on Lille, Le Mans,
Chartres, Reims and Orleans, France at 2212-2258 hours local without loss.
  23 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER operations.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 258 B-26s and 41 A-20s, including 12
aircraft dropping Window, attack coastal batteries at Le Harve/Le Grand
Hameau, France and military installation nearby. In Belgium during the
afternoon 267 B-26s and A-20s bomb the marshalling yard, airfield, coastal
defenses, and NOBALL targets at Charleroi/Montignies, Namur, Coxyde, Nieuport
and other points on the N coast of W Europe. 47 P-47s dive-bomb the airfield
at Evreux, France.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 776th Bombardment Squadron
(Heavy), 464th Bombardment Group (Heavy), arrives at Pantanella Airfield,
Italy from the US with B-24s; first mission is 30 Apr.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, A-20s hit an ammunition
dump at Gallicano nel Lazio; B-25s bomb the Orvieto marshalling yard and 2
bridges; B-26s hit Poggibonsi and Cecina railroad bridges and tracks, and
viaducts at Bucine and W of Arezzo; fighter-bombers operating over wide areas
of C Italy and in the battle zones hit railroad bridges, railroad cars, motor
transport, barracks, and troop concentrations with good effect.
  522d, 523d and 524th Fighter-Bomber Squadrons, 27th Fighter-Bomber Group,
move from Pomigliano to Castel Volturno, Italy with A-36s and P-40s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-24s, staging through Eniwetok
Atoll, bomb Truk Atoll (1 hits Ponape Island) while B-25s, based on Abemama
Island, strike Ponape. B-25s, flying a shuttle mission between Tarawa and
Majuro Atolls, pound Maloelap and Jaluit Atolls.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On New Britain Island, 22
B-25s bomb the Ratawul supply area and 40+ fighter-bombers hit the runway at
Tobera, both strikes causing considerable damage; night harassment of the
Rabaul area continues.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): About 60 B-24s, teaming with
US destroyers offshore, bombard the Hansa Bay, New Guinea area, concentrating
on AA positions guarding airfields.
  672d Bombardment Squadron (Light), 417th Bombardment Group (Light), moves
from Dobodura to Saidor, New Guinea with A-20s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 06:48:32 CDT
From:    jesse carnes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII air show in Baton Rouge, LA

Sorry guys ;

I MEANT that Ryan (formerly Harding Field) airport was the activation point
for the 91st BGof ... (correction follows now) ...Twelve O'Clock HIGH fame.

SNAFU mine.

Jesse Carnes
[email-masked]
Baton Rouge, LA

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 07:02:37 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Hs-293

Hello, Gudmundur!

Here goes with some more info, and I was able to locate more info on
the Hs-294 and will post that to you. Anyway, here goes with the A-1
and A-2.

                     A-1

This was Werner von Braun's first design developed at Kummersdorf.
Accounts are conflicting and about all that can be said with
certainty is that it never left the ground.

                    A-2

Werner von Braun's second try. Two were successfully launched on the
island of Borkum in the Baltic in Dec 1934 and gave the first
encouragement to the liquid fuel school of thought.

    More later. I didn't have much time last night to do more than
the above.

    All the best.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 08:07:19 -0500
From:    "W.C. DIVENS" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII air show in Baton Rouge, LA

>I MEANT that Ryan (formerly Harding Field) airport was the activation point
>for the 91st BGof ... (correction follows now) ...Twelve O'Clock HIGH fame.

>SNAFU mine.

>Jesse Carnes

I'm confused here...

The following is from WHEN HOLLYWOOD RULED THE SKIES:

"The character of Frank Savage, for example, closely paralleled that of
Colonel Frank Armstrong, Jr., commander of the first 8th AF bomber group
based in England.  It was Armstrong who was ordered, early in 1943, to
take command of and rebuild the battered 306th bomb group based in
Thurleigh.  In three months of bomber operations over Eutope, the unit
had suffered some of the highest losses in the ETO.  The group later
became the model for the fictitious 918th Bomber Group"

So there never was a 918th, was there?

Bill
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 07:18:30 CDT
From:    jesse carnes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII air show in Baton Rouge, LA

Guys ;

>From what Frank Donofrio of the Memphis Belle group in Memphis TN tells me,
it was partly the heroics of Manny Klette, the heroics of the Memphis Belle
crewe, and the 91st BG that partly went to create Twelve O'Clock High, the
book, the motion picture and the television series.

If the 306 BG out of Thurleigh contributed a share, I have no data to refute
that claim ... I just know what Frank Donofrio told me.

However, I could ask Jim Verinnis, co-pilot of the Belle and pilot of his own
plane, the Connecticut Yankee if there is anything to the 306 theory.

BTW gentlemen, as you WELL know already I am sure, the 91st also had some of
the most costly losses during its tenure over Festung Europa (Nov '42-Apr '45).

Jesse Carnes
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 08:38:10 EST
From:    Aldo <[email-masked]>
Subject: Black Widow

I'm just curous if anyone has any combat info. on the Black Widow
airplane?  From the specs I've seen it looks like a there were fast,
well armed versions, but you never hear anything about it.  For
example how did it fair against Zeros (it was mainly in the PTO,
right ?) at night?

Any info would be interesting.

Aldo M. Hubert
                                           [email-masked]
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
800 Oakland Ave.
Greensboro NC 27412

Sic Friatur Crustum Dulce

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 08:53:36 EDT
From:    Richard Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: Collar Tabs

Bill,
        The photo of Mac doesn't identify the officer, though a second one
behind Mac has the same type of tabs.  The peaked caps have what look like
roundels on the upper angled front of the cap (where we have the eagle) and on
a vertical strip above the visor.

                                        Richard Kaplan
                                        Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh

(Mac is pretty as a picture too, in Jodphurs, boots, and enough decoratio
 to start a museum.)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 07:59:16 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: war & music: Laibach

I heard of a band called "Ghost of an American Airman".  It is a
Britishgroup, and they sound a lot like "The Crash Test
Dummies"--no---not the two guys on the commercial, but the band.  My
memory is pretty fuzzy of them, because I heard them on a Sunday morning
driving to drill at o-dark-something, but they were pretty good.

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 08:04:54 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: BGen R.L. Scott, Jr (part 2)

I've never read "The Day I owned the Sky", but it has a picture of BGen
Scott in a current flight suit, leaning up against an F-16 single
seater.  Did they let this guy fly one recently?  Did he go solo?  I
knew he flew jets in the '50's, but letting him fly an F-16?  Letting a
man in his 60's fly a very hot fighter, while not on active duty?  It
seems possible, but unlikely--sounds like Sam Nunn pulled some strings
or something (Sam Nunn lives about 5 minutes from Warner Robbins).

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 06:45:26 -0700
From:    "Office TH325, Extension 3566" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Pacific-inferior equipment?

>From:         Jon Stevens <[email-masked]>

>Regarding the discussion on inferior equipment going to the Pacific Theater,
>My dad, USMC 2nd Div, WWII, was not issued a bayonet or a knife before
>shipping out for the Pacific.  He had to write home and ask his mom to
>send him one.  She bought a bayonet at a surplus store in Chicago  that had
>been chromed.  Needless to say he got it but spent a long time trying to
>get rid of that shine by plunging it into a bucket of sand.
>
>My question is --  was basic equipment like this simply not available in
>large amounts in 1942?  Did the Marine Corps recieve less material than
>the Army or even inferior material than the Army? Or was what happened to
>my dad just a fluke?
>
>Jon Stevens [email-masked]

I'm reading a book now titled "There's a War to be Won -- The United
States Army in World War II" by Geoffrey Perret.  He talks about the
Germany first stategy and says:

     For all that, Germany First turned out to be something of an illusion.
     For the next eighteen months more troops and materiel were shipped
     across the Pacific than across the Atlantic.  It proved impossible not
     to respond to Japanese expansion.

His source for this remark is:

Richard M. Leighton and Robert W. Coakley, "Global Logistics and Strategy
1940-1943 (Washington D.D. 1955) 662.

>From what I've read, all branches were short of good equipment, and
each was sure the other branches (or the British and Russions) were
getting it all (sometimes with good reason it would appear.)

On a slightly different topic, it's instructive to read books describing
an incident from the two perspectives.  For example a navy perspective
and an army perspective.  Most accounts of Sicily that I've seen talk
about navy ship gunfire breaking up a tank attack and saving the day so
to speak.  Perret never mentions the navy's role.  In fact about the
only time he mentions the navy is to say that they had a monopoly on
engines and had the pick of the best draftees.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:47:58 -0400
From:    Steven VEST <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: SPAIN'S FRANCO AND "K

(Another one of Lou's diatribes against Vietnam protesters deleted.)

> Please, Lou...
>
>      This is the World War II discussion, not the place to denegrate a whole
> generation that wasn't alive during WWII -- my generation, of which I will tell
> anyone I have not the slightest shame and a good deal of pride. I would kindly
> suggest there must be some other place where those remarks would be appropriate
> or at least on topic.
>
>      Thank you for endulging my interruption... Now, where were we?
>
>      Jim Brady
>

Well said Jim.  I agree wholeheartedly.  Thanks!

==========================[email-masked]===========================
= Steven Vest: Head, Off Campus Lib. Services: Nova University, Ft. Ldl, FL =
= Two broken tigers, on fire in the night, flicker their souls to the wind. =
=                                     Al Stewart--Past, Present and Future. =
===============No statements made here reflect Nova University===============

Yes I'm back.  I couldn't stay unsubscribed when I heard Joe was running
the list.  I couldn't stand to miss out on those Kelly's quotes!

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 08:34:56 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: war & music: Laibach

> > There's also group Laibach, which image is very nazi-like. They wore dark
> > brown shirts and ties and their music is very totalitary. Guys are from
> > Slovenia (former Yugoslavia).

I remember the first time I saw one of their videos, "Life is Life", late at
night on MTV.

"I didn't know that Leni Riefenstahl did any videos.  Cool" :)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:30:21 -0500
From:    "WILLIAM L. HUBER - SAA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: VET: Search for German vet by name?

> However, I'd be interested in beginning the difficult task of seeing if I can
> track down the service record(s) of anyone with the last name Brohm.
>
> Robert J. Granvin

Hi Robert,

I didn't find an exact match but this is what I did find:

BROHME Hans Joachim  Uffz    Beobachter    13/09/43

what this means:

I found a fellow who is named Hans Joachim Brohme who was an
Unteroffizier (corporal) and flew as a Beobachter (observer).
He was awarded the Ehrenpokal (Honor Goblet) on 13 Sept. 1943.

This reference came from Horst Schiebert's book _Die Traeger
Ehrenblattspange des Heeres und der Waffen SS; Die Traeger der
Ehrentafelspange der Kriegsmarine; Die Inhaber des Ehrenpokals fur
besondere Leistung im Luftkrieg_ 1986.  Ain't that a mouth full?

Kinda reminds me of Hitler's first title to his book that eventually
became known as _Mein Kampf_.  It was something like "Seven years of
struggle against stupidity, ignorance and bureaucracy" but Hitler was
finally convinced that the text should be longer than the title. 8^o

Anyway, to your request again, I can't say with any degree of
certainty that this is your man but it could be.  I have tunics in my
collection where the name is mis-spelled in this fashion because the
names were not put in by the owners but by their tailors.  If the man
was away from home the tailor there may not be familiar enough with
the man to spell the name correctly (they use lots of umlauts and
sometimes they swap an o" for an oe etc.).  If the tailor is not
German then the sky is the limit on how the name will be spelled!.
Sure makes researching folks a real joy when that happens....

Brohme has an extra syllable than Brohm so they may be two different
people.  There were no matches in the Luftwaffe rank list of 1945
which means he never made it as high as Captain or died prior to 1945.
The Ehrenpokal book was the best bet since it lists all winners of
that award and most pilots and aircrew in the Luftwaffe seemed to be
enlisted types as in this case.  I also checked the German Cross and
Knights Cross books with no matches or near matches.

Where to go from here:

Step 1)  check the flightsuit again to ensure the name is correct and
note any rank insignia (or evidence thereof ie missing patches on the
sleeves that will give some idea of how many "gulls" were there).

Step 2)  If we still believe this could be our boy then we compose
letters to the Bundesarchiv in Koblenz, the Bundesarchiv-Zentralnach-
weisstelle in Aachen and the Krankenbuchlager in Berlin.  Explain who
you are and what you are looking for and provide all the data you
have which in this case is first and last name rank and his job.  He
may have been promoted subsequent to his pokal award so they may have
a higher rank for him in their records.  Be sure to specify that
this man was in the Luftwaffe.   The Berlin Document Center would not
be likely to have anything on him unless he was a Nazi party member.
BDC deals mainly with political people rather than military but they
have extensive files on the entire SS.

Step 3)  Sit back and wait.

That's about it.  If you would like the addresses to these archives
say the word and I'll e-mail them to you.

Best of luck,  Bill Huber / [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:23:50 LCL
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: HELP: CONTACT

Message to Terry Moore: did my direct emails earlier this week reach you going
to [email-masked] ?

Sorry for the interruption, fellow listers..
     --JVB

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 12:25:33 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII air show in Baton Rouge, LA

Hello, Jesse!

I would only add that my feeling was that the history of the "Bloody"
100th became the basis for the movie "12 O'clock High". There was
much juxtapositioning by Hollywood to come across with such a story,
but, it seems to me that the writers borrowed much from different
sources to produce this movie, but the setting and moods definitely
seem to me have come from the sad tale of the 100th Bomb Group.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 12:31:44 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Pacific-inferior equipment?

Hello, John!

I would only like to comment that the basic reason for the inferior
equipment being available in 1940-1941 was due to the cost conscious
and budget-cutting Congress of the 1930's. Nothing has really been
said about this, but I think that was the crux of the problem. By the
time this country became aware of the fact that we were going to go
to war at some point in the near future, it was too late to update
and upgrade equipment to a level that would have compared favorably
with the other warring nations. Thus, the poor folks in the Pacific
had to make do with WWI rifles, ammo, etc. The same arguments we hear
nowadays and have heard about cutting the military were the same in
1939. I think, more than anything, this contributed to this most
unfortunate situation that found our forces in the Pacific so lacking.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:51:04 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: RCAF

Your pungent if incoherent post about being "pissed off" at Canadians
because the "Canadians allow the British to take all the RCAF's credit"
reads oddly, to say the least.
We RCAF-ers take a backseat to no-one, in our combat record, or in retaining
full credit for it, from the British or anyone else. It's probably certain
of your shallwesay ancient prejudices speaking [ :-) ]
        If you are sincerely interested, though, I suggest you do some
reading of actual history of air-war in WW2, beyond that of the gallant
USAAF.  An excellent starting point for you would be REAP THE WHIRLWIND
by Spencer Dunmore, 1992.  It's the story of RCAF 6 Group, RAF Bomber
Command in the Second World War.  Your Celtic outrage may be getting in
the way of understanding that Canadian units fought as a component of
the Royal Air Force.  As well, many other Canadian volunteers from the
RCAF served in various other RAF squadrons. So many, that there were at
times as high as 30% of RAF aircrews being from Canada. We certainly got
a good deal of "credit" from the British, from extensive and grateful
press coverage at the time to a lavish number of medals and awards for
bravery in air combat.  WE don't feel slighted in the least. But then,
you had to have *been* there to know how it really was....

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:06:38 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII German radio tech, size, range ...

In the early 1970s, a German automatic radio weather transmitter was
discovered intact on the coast of Labrador, Canada.
The unit was designed to record wind and temperature then radio the
information across the Atlantic to German monitoring stations. The
information was useful for german naval and air operations.
The radio beacon had apparently been secretly set up by a U-Boat around
1942, and remained there in an isolated spot in Labrador until
accidentally discovered.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 13:05:00 CDT
From:    jesse carnes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII air show in Baton Rouge, LA

BTW, Terry ;

I was only transliterating what I had read from a book on the MemphisBelle,
as well as some dialogue with Frank Donofrio (head of the Memphis Belle Mem.
Assoc. and former of the 8th AAF.

Jesse

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:26:57 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: RCAF

Thank you, sir, for your gentlemanly post... "no need for bravado..."
        It's comical, to see the occasional comic-book effusion on here,
a yearning for schoolboy war-stories, not to mention excitable folk who
trumpet about "ripping the lid off" some so-called unknown fact or other
-- usually when the facts concerned are quite widely known to everyone
else.... :-)
        A Maple-leaf accolade to you for characterizing those more
modest Yanks the rest of us prefer.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 14:24:56 EDT
From:    Archie <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Pacific-inferior equipment?

Terry
I think perhaps the Great Depression and the subsequent spending of large
sums from the national treasury probably had much to do with the lack of
equipment available near the beginning of WWII.
Some felt that the war to end all wars had obviated the need for a large
military.  The failure of the US to join the League of Nations and the
general isolationism of the nation at that time added to the reluctance
to support the military in general and R&D in particular.  Look what happened
to Gen. Billy Mitchell for his demonstration of air warfare potential.
Zeitgeist most likely!

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:43:18 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: RCAF

You raise two excellent areas...
        I share your distress that present-day obesssions with apartheit
quite onscure the magnificent contributions of South African forces in
two world wars.
        The South African army fought with tremendous courage and ability
on the Western Front during the First World War. So gallantly, that the
segment of land at Deville Wood, France, is ceded to South Africa in
perpetuety, recognizing the SA Division's bravery there.  The Deville
Wood Memorial honors all South Africans who fell in battle during the
1914-1918 war; not only in France, but in Flanders, Palestine, East
Africa, and other theatres of war.
        During the SEcond World War, South Africans served in East
Africa against the Italians, in Ethiopia and Somaliland, and against the
germans in North Africa, Italy, and Northwest Europe. There were many
South African airmen serving also in RAF squadrons.
        South African losses numbered over 21,000 dead in the two world
wars (9,3000 in WW1, and 11, 900 in WW2).
        With the accession of a predominantly "Boer" government in the
Union oif South Africa in 1948, the country left the Britisg Commonwealth,
and is now the South African Republic.  With all its current problems,
one should not forget that South Africa did previously serve in democracy's
cause.
lest We Forget...

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:56:37 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: RCAF

Your second point, black units in British service...
        A wide variety of "black" regiments and units served with British
forces in both world wars.  They mainly were raised in East and West Africa.
        The Kings African Rifles, for instance. Other "African" regiments
were recruited in what was then Nigeria, Gold Coast, Kenya, etc.  Many of them served as infantry in Burma alongside British army regiments, and in North
Africa as part of the British Eighth Army.
        Similar origins were those of various West Indian regiments, from
Jamaica, Trinidad, Barbados, and so on.  Also, there was a sprinkling of
black airmen who served creditiably as pilots and navigators in RAF bombers.
I myself, met a Jamaican who had been a navigator with RAF Bomber Command,
and had survived a tour of 30 raids over Germany and France.
        Black regiments are an interesting study all of themselves.
Regards.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 12:04:15 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: German II collar tabs.

Your mentioning Erich von Stroheim...
        I came across some details about the real background of that actor
who "typified the Prussian officer".
        The reality is to some degree hilarious.  It seems "von Stroheim"
was in fact an Austro-Hungarian Jew, who was aprivate soldier in a pre-
WW One cavalry regiment in Vienna, who deserted at the first signs of
a war in the offing.  He made his way to Hollywood, where he enjoyed a
vastly entertaining, and profitable, life terrorizing studio executives
and movie-goers alike with his portrayal of a fearsome Junker...
        No wonder "von Stroheim" always kept his face so straight...
:-)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 12:21:45 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF Regulations Question

Re mascots aloft.
You asked "what was the official policy" regarding taking up mascots.
FORBIDDEN.
Which some aircrew ignored, and took along their mascots.
I know of one cocker spaniel that survived several hundred hours on
anti-submarine air patrols.
Not to mention certain two-legged "mascots" in skirts that are whispered
to have been taken up for joyrides.... :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 19:47:12 MET-1
From:    Bognar Attila <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HELP(IMHO...)

HE,

IGSMKAFA TMTIW ROTFL. AFAIK TUOTMAIST (IST?) TPMOTAP.

TYFYKH, IHAI.

BTW HAJFYA (IAW AT): WWYHTOMII HNITSPA?

TA, TTFN (BBFT)

Hi everybody,

I got so many kind and funny answers that many times I was ROTFL.
AFAIK the use of this many abbreviations is significant to (IST?)
the practical mindedness of the American people.

Thank you for your kind help, I highly appreciate it.

BTW here's a joke for you all (IAW all this): What would you have
thought of me if I had not included this second part also?

Thanks again, TTFN (Blame Bill for this)

All the best,

Attila  [email-masked]

PS.: Look at my new address, please.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 12:26:19 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF Regulations Question

In the segment of THE WORLD AT WAR series, showing the Germans high-tailing
it out of Tunisia, one sees a large Alsatian dog struggling to get aboard
a Luftwaffe plane through the belly-hatch. No airman likes to leave his
mascot buddy behind.  :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 12:39:51 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF Regulations Question

A classic bit of politically-correct outrage regarding a wartime mascot
happened last year in Britain.  A clutch of PC twits aimed retrospective
outrage at Wing Commander Guy Gibson (killed in action in WW2), and wanted
his memory villified -- because he had named his mascot labrador dog,
"Nigger".  Not a very sensitive name for a black dog, of course, but some
people were unselfconsciously like that back then. Anyway, the long-gone
dog's moniker was considered grounds for PC concern. 'Bit futile, considering
man and dog have been dead some 50 years.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 16:33:22 -0400
From:    Daniel Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: GEN: BGen R.L. Scott, Jr (part 2)

On Fri, 8 Apr 1994, LTC Donnell, Doug wrote:

> Scott said his most memorable mission happened around Christmas 1942.
>
[deletions]
>
> "I was already committed so I wentr in," he said, shaking his head at
> the error.  "I shot down the bomber, hitting it in exactly the right
> place -- where the wing and fuselage meet.  Then I headed for the
> clouds.  As I went into this thick overcast, I knew the Zeros were
> right behind me.  So just as I came out of the cloud cover, I did
> the fastest turn I'd ever done in my life.  A Zero was headed right
> for me, and I shot it down.  Then I took out the other."
>
> Quoted from AIRMAN magazine, Mar 94.

If General Scott shot down a retractable-gear Japanese fighter that day,
it would have been a Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa of the army air force, called
Oscar by Allied pilots.

There were no Zeros over the mainland of China in 1942. During the Pacific
War, in fact, Japanese navy fighters attacked the interior There were no
Zeros over the mainland of China in 1942. During the Pacific War, in fact,
Japanese navy fighters went inland on only one occasion that I know of, to
Nanning on 5 Apr 1944. (One of the few occasions that Japanese losses and
American claims tallied exactly: 9 Zeros lost out of 32.)

Cheers - Dan Ford   <e-mail: [email-masked]>
                    <postal: 433 Bay Road, Durham NH 03824 USA>
                    <voice/fax: +1-603-868-5850>

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 15:57:06 -0500
From:    "WILLIAM L. HUBER - SAA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF Regulations Question

Hi folks,

This talk of mascots fired a synapse in the void I use to keep my ears
apart.  I have a book that shows photo of a little scotty dog fitted
out with his own parachute.  He was owned by a German Fallschirmjaeger
unit commander.  From the caption, as I recall, the dog had made a few
combat assaults.

It didn't say if he qualified for his parachutist badge :-I

Have a good weekend, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 16:01:36 -0500
From:    "WILLIAM L. HUBER - SAA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: Collar Tabs

>         The photo of Mac doesn't identify the officer, though a second one
> behind Mac has the same type of tabs.  The peaked caps have what look like
> roundels on the upper angled front of the cap (where we have the eagle) and on
> a vertical strip above the visor.
>                                         Richard Kaplan

Hi Richard,

Yeah, I'm sure they are German officers.  The hats you describe are
just exactly the style worn by the Reichswehr up to 1934.

Cheers, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 16:09:05 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Pacific-inferior equipment?

> I would only like to comment that the basic reason for the inferior
> equipment being available in 1940-1941 was due to the cost conscious
> and budget-cutting Congress of the 1930's. Nothing has really been
> said about this, but I think that was the crux of the problem. By the
> time this country became aware of the fact that we were going to go
> to war at some point in the near future, it was too late to update
> and upgrade equipment to a level that would have compared favorably
> with the other warring nations. Thus, the poor folks in the Pacific
> had to make do with WWI rifles, ammo, etc. The same arguments we hear
> nowadays and have heard about cutting the military were the same in
> 1939. I think, more than anything, this contributed to this most
> unfortunate situation that found our forces in the Pacific so lacking.

One of the major examples for why history and understanding of history
is so important.

Santayana...

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 16:18:26 -0500
From:    "WILLIAM L. HUBER - SAA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: HELP(IMHO...)

> HE,
>
> IGSMKAFA TMTIW ROTFL. AFAIK TUOTMAIST (IST?) TPMOTAP.
>
> TYFYKH, IHAI.
>
> BTW HAJFYA (IAW AT): WWYHTOMII HNITSPA?
>
> TA, TTFN (BBFT)
>
>
> Thanks again, TTFN (Blame Bill for this)
>
> Attila  [email-masked]

It wasn't me, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove a thing!!! :-)

Cheers, Bill Huber

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 19:25:48 -0400
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: USAAF Regulations Question

> Not to mention certain two-legged "mascots" in skirts that are whispered
> to have been taken up for joyrides.... :-)

Actually, when on leave and keeping current (i.e. "back home") it was
permitted to take up a wife or other family member in a trainer or some
other aircraft, but the opportunities were quite limited.

However, while there was actually a sanctioned policy to _allow_ this
type of rare event, the unknown forbidden version clearly outnumbered
the legal ones.

I love war stories.  :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 22:09:21 -0500
From:    Jon Stevens <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: War and Music

Check out Iron Maiden,  "Aces High"  It is about the Battle of Britain.
Nothing to do with Nazis...

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Apr 1994 23:20:40 EDT
From:    "Jonah Triebwasser, Adjunct Instructor,
         Marist Coll" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: war & music: Laibach

>There's also group Laibach, which image is very nazi-like. They wore dark
>brown shirts and ties and their music is very totalitary. Guys are from
>Slovenia (former Yugoslavia).
>Here's text from their song "The Great Seal" from "Opus Dei" CD:
>  We shall go on to the end
>  We shall fight on the sees and the oceans
>  We shall fight in the growing confidence and growing strength in the air
>  We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be
>  We shall fight on the beaches
>  We shall fight on the landing ground
>  We shall fight in the fields and in the streets
>  We shall fight in the hills
>  We shall never surrender...
>That's all. Sorry if anyone was annoyed by my mail :)
>Irek.
Irek - This is part of a speech Winston Churchill made to the British
House of Commons on 4 June 1940 after the Dunkirk evacuation.
I find it to be amusing that this group would plagiarize the words
of the great anti-nazi Churchill (or as he would have put it; "anti-
narrrrzzzi."

Jonah Triebwasser
Adjunct Instructor
Marist College
Dyson Building (Adult Education)
Poughkeepsie, New York12601
Tel: (914) 575-3331, ext. 7037
E-Mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 7 Apr 1994 to 8 Apr 1994
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