Subject: WWII-L Digest - 30 Apr 1994 to 1 May 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 00:00:13 -0400

There are 5 messages totalling 146 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. NOST: 50 years ago this week
  2. Bomber crewman survives bailout without chute - need referance
  3. Bomber crewman survives bailout without chute
  4. INF: USAAF 28 APR 44
  5. INF: USAAF 28 APR 44 (now nightfighters)

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Date:    Sat, 30 Apr 1994 22:56:00 EDT
From:    "Jonah Triebwasser, Adjunct Instructor,
         Marist Coll" <[email-masked]>
Subject: NOST: 50 years ago this week

I have obtained two calendars, one from the International Churchill
Society and one from the US Department of Defense which highlights
some of the events of WWII. As time permits, I will post some of
these events:

Fifty Years ago this week:
Sources: (c) = Churchill society; (d) = Defense Dept.

2 May - Conference of Dominion Prime Ministers begins (c).
3 May - Canadian Prime Minister lauds Churchill's vision on the
Mediterranean (c).
4 May -Churchill expresses concern over Soviet involvement in Greece(c).
5 May - Tito's forces capture Zagreb (c).
7 May - Churchill admits that his health is beginning to fail (c).

Jonah Triebwasser
Adjunct Instructor
Marist College
Dyson Building (Adult Education)
Poughkeepsie, New York12601
Tel: (914) 575-3331, ext. 7037
E-Mail: [email-masked]

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Date:    Sat, 30 Apr 1994 23:21:03 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bomber crewman survives bailout without chute - need referance

There was an RAF Warrant Officer air-gunner, whose parachute was damaged when
his Lancaster was hit by flak over Germany.
Following the old aircrew dictum, "Better jump than fry", he rolled back
out of his turret, and made a long fall (sans chute) down through the cold
night sky. He lost consciousness on the way down, and came to, lying in
a snowdrift -- still alive, much to his surprise.
He looked up, and in the moonlight, could see the broken limbs of the
fir tree which had broken his landing.  A few minutes later, a Luftwaffe
patrol arrived, to take him prisoner. His story that he came down without
a parachute was borne out by there being none of footprints in the snow
leading to/from the tree.
The Luftwaffe gave the W/O a certifice -- not a "medal" -- authenticating
that he had survived a long drop without a parachute.  The account of
the RAF flyer receiving his certificate has been published a few times
in airforce magazines, and was also the subject of a BBC radio documentary
in the late 1940s.

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Date:    Sun, 1 May 1994 16:31:35 -0400
From:    "J.M.Ruel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bomber crewman survives bailout without chute

The story of the crewman that survived a fall from his stricken bomber along
with other stories of bizarre parachute events can be found in a book called "
Into the silk."  One airman fell several thousand feet into a Dutch canal and
lived to tell of it. Another tail gunner rode the aft section of a B-17 down
to a perfect landing.

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Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 01:00:10 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44

On Sat, 30 Apr 1994, Bob Smart wrote:

> The sources I have say only 75-82 P38s were converted to P-38Ms One source says
> 'only a few became operative by the end of the war.  Looking at the photos it
> appears that the P-38M used a different type radar set than the one in the P-70
> & P-61 It appears the P-38 used a set similar in design ( if not the same set)
> that was used in aircraft like the TBM/TBF. This used a small unit inside a
> fairing that looks similar to a small droptank. the P-38 mounted it under the
> nose other aircraft (with fuselage mounted engines) mounted it under a wingroot.
> It then used antenna under the wings as receivers. I believe that the radar used
> in the P-70 & the one in the P-61 were much larger sets with much more
> capability.

The P-38M was certainly not the only single-seat fighter to be equuipped
for nightfighting; at least the Grumman F6F was also equipped with radar
(in an underwing pod). Radar sets became smaller towards the end of the
war.  I understood that the P-38M was seen as a dawn-and-dusk fighter
rather than a nightfighter; for true night operations the larger P-61 was
both safer and more effective. But the P-38M had a better chance if it met
with enemy day fighters. For such a large aircraft the P-61 had surprising
performance and manuevrability, but it was no match for a single-engined
single-seater.

Emmanuel Gustin

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Date:    Sun, 1 May 1994 21:31:42 -0400
From:    Bob Smart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44 (now nightfighters)

>
> The P-38M was certainly not the only single-seat fighter to be equuipped
> for nightfighting; at least the Grumman F6F was also equipped with radar
> (in an underwing pod). Radar sets became smaller towards the end of the
> war.  I understood that the P-38M was seen as a dawn-and-dusk fighter
> rather than a nightfighter; for true night operations the larger P-61 was
> both safer and more effective. But the P-38M had a better chance if it met
> with enemy day fighters. For such a large aircraft the P-61 had surprising
> performance and manuevrability, but it was no match for a single-engined
> single-seater.
>
> Emmanuel Gustin

I mainly wanted to make a couple points that surprised me when I did a quick
check of my usual sources about the P-70.  I was surprised that both sources
mentioned the big role that the P-70 played in training night fighter crews and
allowing the quick deployment of the P-61 units.  I was also surprised at the
very small number of P-38Ms.

Emmanuel is right about the single seaters. The Navy had night fighter varients
of both the F6F and the F4U ( also used by the Marines). There were at least
two differnt versions of F6F & F4U nightfighters. I have seen the N and the E
suffix used in detailing these nightfighters ( F6F-3E & F6F-3N for example)
I do not know what the detail differences were but I have seen photos of both
the underwing fairing and a fairing centered on the wing on these fighters. I
have also seen teh -E & -N suffixes used in listing aircraft deployed for the
same operation so I do not beleive that it was a designation change or misprint.
The radar fairing on the F4U & F6F is different from the one I have seen on
TBM/TBF aircraft. The fighters fairing was well outboard and was part of the
wings structure. The TBM used a pod that appeared to be mounted on some kind of
shakle under the wing root.

The Navy even tried having an entire carrier air group of night operative
aircraft, both fighters and strike aircraft. I beleive the concept was tried
out on the Enterprise in late '44 or early '45. I think an Independence class
CVL was tried also, forming an entire Task Group for night ops.

And just a little point, The P-38M was set up to carry a radar operator above
and behind the pilot. ( I believe he had to be above because of the way the
wing structure came through the center pod, not because they wanted the
visibility)

Bob Smart ([email-masked])

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End of WWII-L Digest - 30 Apr 1994 to 1 May 1994
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