Subject: WWII-L Digest - 28 Apr 1994 to 29 Apr 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 00:00:35 -0400

There are 44 messages totalling 1551 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. MEDIA: IHT ARTICLE AND LETTERS HOME EXCERPTS IN L'EXPRESS
  2. Question: Cannon/Machine Gun (5)
  3. Smooth bore guns (3)
  4. WEAP: Weird Weapons (12)
  5. INF: USAAF 28 APR 44 (2)
  6. Otto Skorzeny
  7. Martin B-10 bombers in WW-II (2)
  8. INF: USAAF 29 APR - 1 MAY 44
  9. Re[2]: WWII-L Meeting @ Jefferson Barracks
 10. EDU: To celebrate?
 11. P-70 Questions
 12. INF: LETTERS HOME: GETTING READY IN ENGLAND
 13. Re[2]: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44 (2)
 14. DOC: Command Decisions, Chap. 10
 15. WEAP: Tank engines (3)
 16. General MacArthur
 17. Re[2]: WEAP: Weird Weapons (2)
 18. Tirpitz  (Graf Spee)
 19. A-20 Havoc/Boston
 20. GEN: General MacArthur
 21. WEAP: Bangalore Torpedos (was Weird Weapons)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 12:56:18 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: IHT ARTICLE AND LETTERS HOME EXCERPTS IN L'EXPRESS

  This message is for those of you who might have access to the
International Herald Tribune and L'EXPRESS (the French TIME).  The April 29
IHT carries a MEANWHILE article by me about our period of preparation for
the invasion in England, with emphasis on Exercise Tiger.  The May 5 issue
of L'EXPRESS, which is now available in Paris, has a special on D-Day, which
includes three pages of excerpts from my book LETTERS HOME.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo, Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 00:20:33 -0600
From:    Tony Schuler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Question: Cannon/Machine Gun

Folks,

When dealing in aircraft, what is the difference between a cannon and
a machine gun. Both are rapid fire? Is it a question of accuracy or rifle
barrling?

Thanks,

Tony Schuler
Schulere

Terry, I would appreciate any information you feel relevant on the
companies that produced the best helicopters. If it is Focke, then let's
take Focke as an example of helocopters. Top Speed, flight characteristics,# N3
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8 EOther side timed out.]

capabilities, men in helo, safety of, etc. I just happen to be a little int-
erested in the abilities of the aircraft at that point in time. Although
an incomplete machine, were they able to attack? Or was it just for moun-
tainus novelty?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 28 Apr 1994 23:56:59 EDT
From:    John Sloan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Smooth bore guns

Johannes,
I thought smooth bore guns were invented before rifled guns. The first cannon
were smooth bore because they had no way to create rifling and anyway the
cannon balls were round. Rifling came much later. the advantage that smooth
bore muskets had over early rifles was ease and speed of loading, since the
rifles had to use bullets that fit much tighter. But this problem was
eventually overcome with use of greased patch.  Perhaps a gun expert will
give you more details.
JOhn Sloan

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 02:32:22 -0400
From:    "Mark A. Campbell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Smooth bore guns

In reference to Johannes' request for smooth-bore vs. rifled guns,

The smooth-bore was indeed invented and used first.  The rifled "musket" and
cannon did not become practicable for use as a standard weapon until the
invention of the "minie" ball, which was actually a conical projectile
which expanded on the way up the barrel, thus gripping the grooves and
imparting a stable trajectory due to spin, with greatly increased accuracy
the result.  This development occurred c.1840-1850, and was followed by
other advances in rifling technology.  The result was that almost all guns
were rifled from the 1870s until after c.1965, when the Soviets first
equipped a tank with a smoothbore 115mm cannon (caliber may be off).  The
reason for this reversion to a smooth-bore design was that at very high
velocities rifling tends to grip the shell, reducing its effectiveness.
But the increasing effectiveness of tank armor has mandated higher and
higher velocities, until today such "hypervelocity" guns are common in
the latest Western Main Battle Tanks.  To my knowledge small arms are still
generally rifled.

Hope this helps.
                                        Cordially,
                                        Mark A. Campbell

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 00:31:32 -0700
From:    Gerry Walker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

I remember, years ago, reading a book about the special weapons designed for
D-DAY, and there were several of them. I'll try to recall the book title &
get back to you.

One that I recall was called the panjandrum (SP) which was a self propelled
spool like affair, driven by rockets mounted on the side in Catherine-wheel
like configuration. I can't recall the purposeof it but remember seeing a
photo of it running amok during testing & believe it was scrapped as being
as big a danger to friend as to foe.

Now, if I can just remember the title of that book...

Cheers,

Gerry

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 00:41:18 -0700
From:    Gerry Walker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Question: Cannon/Machine Gun

Cannons fire explosive projectiles, machine guns don't.

Cheers,

Gerry

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 09:57:00 CET
From:    Fred van Wetten <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44

>
> I thought I was fairly familiar with World War II combat
> aircraft, especially fighters, but a P-70?  What was that?  I
> plead ignorance and anxiously await guidance!
> Jim
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
>  Defense Personnel Support Center        [email-masked]
>  2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-8760
>  Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-8760
>
>                      "Never in the field of human conflict
>                      was so much owed by so many to so few."
>                                Winston S. Churchill
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the top of my head, it was a night fighter variant af the
Douglas A-20 (Havoc).

Fred van Wetten           Netadress:[email-masked]
CRI, instituut voor telecommunicatie en computerdienstverlening
RijksUniversiteit Leiden, PO BOX 9512, 2300 RA LEIDEN, The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)71 276933     Fax: +31 (0)71 276967

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 10:27:57 MET-1
From:    Bognar Attila <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Otto Skorzeny

Hi Emery,

Among his many missions was one in Hungary. He was the leader of the
commando that kidnapped the younger son of our Head of State,
Governor Miklos Horthy. They did this to `persuade' him to give up the
the strongly defended Castle in Budapest on 15 October 1944 and also
to take back the proclamation he announced. This included a ceasefire
with the Russians and a declaration of war on Germany.

Just one moment of Otto's life...

------------------------
>         He seems like he must have been quite a colorful character.
> Can somebody provide me with some detail about the actions he was involved
> in?  I know amongst his numerous exploits he led a daring raid to recover
> Mussolini.  Wasn't he also the Commander of the German 150th Brigade during
> the Battle of the Bulge that comprised of German Soldiers in U.S. uniforms
> that spoke a minimal amount of English?  How successful was their infiltration?
>         Thanks,
>                 --Emery
>

All the best,

Attila  [email-masked]

An aspect of East European existence: "How far to go which way when
we want to see where the wind sits?"

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 11:07:00 CET
From:    Fred van Wetten <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Martin B-10 bombers in WW-II

> I would be interested in hearing any information about the activity of
> the Martin B-10 bombers during WW-II. I've read somewhere that there
> were some in service during the conflict, and at least until 1944.
> What kind of missions have these aircraft acomplished during the conflict?
> Where were they stationed?
>
> Thanks for your comments,
>
> Jorge Merino

Jorge,

The KNIL-ML (Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger - Militaire Luchtvaart)
or the RNEIAAF (Royal Netherlands East Indian Army Air Force) had still
some (40?) Martin B-10 in service in januari 1942 and they served trough
out the NEI campaign.
Although the East Indian government had pursued 360 North American B-25
to replace the B-10's, the time table of the Pacific war interfered with
these plans.

In early '42, the Japanese threat for Malaya, the NEI and Australia let
to the formation of an Allied command for that area.
The B-10's were stationed on Borneo island (the airfields had beautiful
names like Balikpapan, Samarinda I & II - have to look in my resources
for the others - ) and some in Malaya. The task of the B-10's was to
bomb the Japanese landing forces in Malaya. (Later on Borneo, Sumatra,
Celebes, Java the Molucian islands, New Guinea etc. till the retreat on
Australia.)
They had fighter protection of British (Australian) and Dutch Brewster
Buffalo's, Dutch P-36's Hawks, Dutch Curtiss Wright CW-21's Demons and
Dutch and British Hawker Hurricanes.
The bombardments let to the sinking of several Japanese ships, from
barques to cruisers, but they couldn't annoy the Japanese attacking
forces at all. The B-10 attacks were to small, to few and many met
their fate for the guns of Japanese Army Hayabusa's or Japanese Navy
Zeke's.
At least one B-10 made it to Australia and was handed over to the
USAAF, who flew it as VIP transport (?). Several were captured by
the Japanese forces and were send to Siam (Thailand) as a Japanese
gift to a friendly nation.

If someone like to know more about the aircraft, the airfields, the
timetable, the results, feel free to ask. I have good resources on
this subject and I will check it out for you.

Fred van Wetten           Netadress:[email-masked]
CRI, instituut voor telecommunicatie en computerdienstverlening
RijksUniversiteit Leiden, PO BOX 9512, 2300 RA LEIDEN, The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)71 276933     Fax: +31 (0)71 276967

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 12:10:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Martin B-10 bombers in WW-II

> I would be interested in hearing any information about the activity of
> the Martin B-10 bombers during WW-II. I've read somewhere that there
> were some in service during the conflict, and at least until 1944.
> What kind of missions have these aircraft acomplished during the conflict?
> Where were they stationed?
>
> Thanks for your comments,
>
> Jorge Merino

The Air Force of the Dutch East Indie used a few squdrons of
the Martin-139 and Martin-166, the export equivalents of the
Martin B-10.
One of their missions was to bomb Saigon.
They were obselate and chanceless against the Japanes Zero.
They should be replaced in 1942 by 162 x B-25 Mitchell.
The Martins were used till 8-3-1942, I do'nt now how many
escaped to Australie, but they were not used operationel
by the Dutch overthere.

End Februari 1942 a group of Martin-166 crews were send to India
to take over the B-25, an other group was send to Australia on the
same mission.
To their big surprise after a few days the B-25 arrived, flown in by
US ferry-pilots, but too late to save Java.

One of the optimistic mistakes was that it was impossible to go into
combat with a complete new plane with no training and no maintenance.

The B-25 in India stay there for a while, were stripped of all guns
and used for recce missions for the RAF by Dutch crews.
Later the planes were handed over to the RAF and the crews went to
nr-18 sqd RAAF in Australia.

The crews in Australia formed with the help of Australia
nr-18 sqd RAAF with their B-25 and fought together with the
Americans in the area of Darwin against targets in Indie.
The new crews for nr-18 sqd were trained at a Dutch flying
school at Jacksonville USA on the Beechcraft Kansas.
Peter de Lange

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 07:23:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 29 APR - 1 MAY 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
SATURDAY, 29 APRIL 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  B-29, Boeing Superfortress
  L-1, Stinson Vigilant
  L-5, Stinson Sentinel
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang
  P-70, Douglas
  Vengeance, Vultee

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 2 B-24s abort an armed photographic mission
due to weather.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 21 P-38s hit airfields in the Heho
area and claim 8 aircraft downed in combat; 25 P-51s and B-25s bomb several
buildings at Meza; 19 B-24s over Prome blast supply dumps in the area.
  19th Liaison Squadron, US Army Forces, CBI, moves from Kanchrapara to
Ondal, India with L-1s and L-5s.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, B-25s bomb a warehouse and barracks
at Shayang and attack 3 motor launches at Chiuchiang, leaving them burning.
  22d Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 341st Bombardment Group (Medium), based
at Yankai, China with B-25s, sends a detachment to operate from Yunnani.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 327: 679 bombers and 814
fighters are dispatched to bomb Berlin, concentrating on railway facilities;
they claim 95-33-48 Luftwaffe aircraft; 63 bombers and 13 fighters are lost:
  1. 210 of 228 B-17s bomb Berlin; 10 B-17s are lost and 150 damaged; 1
airman is KIA, 7 WIA and 100 MIA.
  2. 218 B-17s are dispatched to Berlin; 158 hit the primary, 24 hit
Magdeburg, 10 hit Brandenburg and 4 hit targets of opportunity; 28 B-17s are
lost and 161 damaged; 4 airmen are KIA, 20 WIA and 260 MIA.
  3. 212 of 233 B-24s bomb Berlin; 25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair
and 121 damaged; 13 airmen are KIA, 11 WIA and 246 MIA.
  Escort is provided by 117 P-38s, 463 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and
234 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s; 3 P-38s and 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47
is damaged beyond repair; 7 P-38s, 16 P-47s and 7 P-51s are damaged; 1 pilot
is WIA and 12 MIA.
  Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in
Northern France and The Netherlands without loss.
  14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb
marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover
over the target area.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): The 484th Bombardment Group
(Heavy) with B-24s is declared operational, the 18th operational group.
  573 B-17s and B-24s, with fighter escort, attack the Toulon, France naval
base and 5 B-17s attack the Rimini-Ancona railroad (second Azon mission).

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s attack the Terni
viaduct and Attigliano railway bridge, while B-26s bomb bridges and bridge
approaches at Pontassieve and Incisa in Valdarno; A-20s attack a dump NE of
Rome; P-40s and P-47s cut rail lines in many places NE of Rome, hit guns N of
Anzio and a dump SE of Rome, attack the town of Acquapendente, hit approaches
and tunnel S of Arezzo and bridge and trucks in the area, bomb Sinalunga
marshalling yard and bridge and approaches at Monte San Savino, and hit docks
at San Vincenzo and boats at Follonica.
  446th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 321st Bombardment Group (Medium),
moves from Gaudo Airfield, Italy to Solenzara, Corsica with B-25s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-24s, staging through Eniwetok
Atoll from Kwajalein Atoll bomb Truk and Jaluit Atolls. B-25s from Makin
Island also hit Jaluit Atoll and carry out 2 strikes against Ponape Island.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): 40+ P-39s bomb and strafe
targets throughout Bougainville and Buka Islands, including Sipaai Mission,
the Kieta area, Lontis, Numa Numa, Ibu, Toborei, Totavi, Aitara and Baitsi;
24 B-25s bomb airfields at Kara and Buka. Allied fighter sweeps continue over
the N Solomons and New Ireland Island, where huts, barges, and other targets
of opportunity are attacked.
  HQ 307th Bombardment Group (Heavy) moves from New Georgia Island to Los
Negros Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 90+ B-24s and
B-25s bomb villages, AA positions and personnel areas in the Wakde Island,
Maffin Bay area, and along the coast of New Guinea from Takar to Verkam
Point; 40+ A-20s hit stores at Cape Wom, and targets of opportunity between
But and Dagua; 130+ A-20s, P-47s, and P-39s hit hideouts and movements along
the Sepik River and from the river's mouth to Cape Croisilles.

SUNDAY, 30 APRIL 1944

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 31 B-25s blast a tank
concentration, bridges, supply dumps and general vicinity at Kalewa; 4 B-25s
damage 2 bridges N of Yamethin.
  5th Liaison Squadron, AAF, India-Burma Sector, moves from Ledo, India to
Shaduzup, Burma with L-1s and L-5s; first mission is 1 May.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): P-40s from Yungning, China knock out a bridge
near Dong Mo, French Indochina and strafe railroad targets of opportunity in
the area.
  The detachment of the 74th Fighter Squadron, 23d Fighter Group, operating
from Liuchow returns to base at Kweilin, China with P-40s.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 329: 295 bombers and 644
fighters are dispatched to 3 targets in France; the bombers claim 3-0-6
Luftwaffe aircraft and the fighters claim 18-1-5 in the air and 11-0-17 on
the ground; 1 bomber and 5 fighter are lost:
  1. 114 of 116 B-17s bomb Lyon/Bron Airfield; 1 B-17 is lost and 8 damaged;
10 airmen are MIA.
  2. 118 of 124 B-17s bomb Clermont-Ferrand/Aulnat Airfield; 9 B-17s are
damaged.
  3. 52 of 55 B-24s bomb V-weapon sites at Siracourt; 3 B-24s are damaged; 1
airman is WIA.
  Escort is provided by 128 P-38s, 268 P-47s and 248 Eighth and Ninth Air
Force P-51s: 44 P-38s, using the Droopsnoot method, bomb Tours Airfield, 1
P-38 is lost and 1 damaged, 1 pilot is MIA; 14 P-47s dive-bomb Romorantin
Airfield plus escort the bombers and claim 9-1-5 Luftwaffe aircraft, 4 P-47s
are damaged; P-51s claim 20-0-17 aircraft, 4 P-51s are lost, 1 damaged beyond
repair and 6 damaged, 1 airman is WIA and 3 MIA.
  Mission 330: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 2.23 million leaflets on 21 towns in
Belgium, France and The Netherlands including Zwolle, Hala, Alost, Louvain,
Leeuwarden, Reims, Metz, Strasburg, Epinal, Tours, Saarguemines, Mulhouse,
Troyes and Orleans without loss.
  Mission 331: 128 fighters carry out fighter-bomber attacks in France; 22
P-38s, with 24 escorts, attack Orleans/Bricy Airfield using the Droopsnoot
method, 2 are damaged; 21 P-47s, with 10 escorts, bomb the same target
shortly later and 5 hit a V-weapon site as a target of opportunity, 3 are
damaged; 51 P-51s swept the area before the attacks without loss.
  20 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 300+ B-26s and A-20s attack V-weapon
construction works and marshalling yards in France.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 464th Bombardment Group (Heavy)
with B-24s becomes the 19th operational bomb group.
  Around 500 bombers, with fighter escort, attack targets in Italy; B-17s
hit industrial areas at Milan and Varese and the Reggio Emilia air depot; the
B-24s bomb marshalling yards at Alessandria and Milan.
  HQ 485th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and 828th, 829th, 830th and 831st
Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) arrive at Venosa, Italy from the US with B-24s;
first mission is 10 May.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, B-25s attack railroad
bridges at Ficulle, N Orvieto and Marsciano, while B-26s hit bridges at
Cortona and Incisa in Valdarno and in the nearby areas; P-40s hit rail lines
and storage in many locations N of Rome, hit rail lines and a radar station
in the Orvieto area, cut railroads from Rome to Tivoli and to Civita
Castellana and hit targets of opportunity in the area; P-47s hit numerous
railroad lines, rail cars, and other targets N of Rome.
  Unit moves in Italy: HQ 86th Fighter-Bomber Group and 525th, 526th, and
527th Fighter-Bomber Squadrons from Pomigliano to Marcianise with P-40s; 85th
Fighter Squadron, 79th Fighter Group, from Capodichino to Pomigliano with
P-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): 41 Kwajalein Atoll-based B-24s
bomb various targets at Wake Island. 11 Makin Island-based B-25s bomb Jaluit
Atoll while 8 from Engebi Island, Eniwetok Atoll bomb Ponape Island.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): 10 P-39s bomb Porton
Plantations, Bougainville Island; 20+ other P-39s, in 11 sweeps, attack a
variety of targets of opportunity on Buka and Bougainville Islands, including
Ivituri Mission, the Kieta area and the Mamagata supply area. On New Britain
Island, 30+ P-40s and P-38s bomb Vunakanau Airfield and 23 B-25s bomb
Vunakambi Plantation.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 80+ P-39s and
P-47s make almost continuous attacks throughout the day against troops and
supplies along Hansa Bay; 40+ A-20s and B-25s bomb Wewak and nearby
plantation; B-24s hit Noemfoor Island with a light raid; B-24 reconnaissance
flights over the Manokwari area and Geelvink Bay result in claims of 6
Japanese interceptors shot down. P-70s hit targets of opportunity on the W
shore of Hansa Bay.
  23 B-24s of the Thirteenth Air Task Force bomb Woleai Atoll.

MONDAY, 1 MAY 1944

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): A single weather sortie is flown.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 18 P-38s and Royal Air Force (RAF)
Vengeances hit troop positions and supply dumps; 7 P-40s over the Mogaung
Valley hit Kamaing and attack positions N of Nanyaseik; 30+ B-24s bomb
Maymyo, Mandalay marshalling yard, and oil facilities at Yenangyaung.
  Moves in India: 20th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron, Tenth Air Force
attached to 5320th Air Defense Wing (Provisional), based at Kisselbari with
P-40s, sends a detachment to Dinjan; 89th Fighter Squadron, 80th Fighter
Group, based at Nagaghuli with P-40s, sends a detachment to Mokelbaria during
May.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): 92 P-40s hit targets over wide areas of S
China, Burma and French Indochina; in Burma, the fighter-bombers knock out a
bridge at Wan Lai-Kam and pound a motor pool at Wan Pa-Hsa; in China, they
strafe the railroad station and airfield at Yuncheng; in French Indochina,
they damage 3 bridges and hit numerous boxcars at Bac Le, Dinh Ca, and Dong
Mo, bomb carbide mines at Loc Binh and strafe railroad yards at Dong Dang and
Na Cham. In China, 7 B-25s and 8 P-40s bomb Tangyang Airfield and nearby
cavalry post; 2 B-25s over Amoy claim a small freighter sunk; and 15 Japanese
aircraft bomb airstrips at Ankang and Hengyang.
  During May, 16th Fighter Squadron, 51st Fighter Group, based at
Chengkung, China with P-40s, sends a detachment to Yunnani; the 26th Fighter
Squadron, 51st Fighter Group, based at Kunming, China with P-40s, sends a
detachment to Liangshan.

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Twentieth Air Force): By this date all 4 B-29 fields
in the Chengtu, China area are open to B-29 traffic.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 332: Operation CROSSBOW
(operations against German missile launching sites) targets are hit in
France in the early morning; 531 bombers and 209 fighters are dispatched
but weather causes many aborts and only 3 of 23 V-weapons sites targetted
are bombed:
  1. Of 161 B-17s dispatched, 18 hit Poix Airfield, 18 hit Roye/Amy
Airfield and 15 hit Montdidier Airfield; 1 B-17 is damaged beyond repair
and 20 damaged.
  2. 22 of 187 B-17s and 57 of 183 B-24s hit the Pas de Calais area; 1 B-17
and 1 B-24 are damaged beyond repair; 19 B-17s and 15 B-24s are damaged; 5
B-24 crewmen are KIA.
  Escort is provided by 119 P-47s and 90 P-51s without loss or claims.
  Mission 333: In the afternoon, 386 bombers and 558 fighters are
dispatched to hit marshalling yards in France and Belgium; 3 bombers and 3
fighters are lost:
  1. 110 B-17s are dispatched to Troyes (52 bomb) and Reims (57 bomb),
France; 1 B-17 is lost and 52 damaged; 10 airmen are MIA.
  2. 125 B-17s are dispatched to Saarguemines (64 bomb) and Metz (42 bomb),
France and Brussels, Belgium (13 bomb); 2 B-17s are lost, 1 damaged beyond
repair and 43 damaged; 20 airmen are MIA.
  3. 151 B-24s are dispatched to Brussels (59 bomb) and Liege (40 bomb),
Belgium; 21 B-24s are damaged; no losses or casualties.
  Escort is provided by 120 P-38s, 272 P-47s and 166 P-51s; The P-47s claim
1-0-1 Luftwaffe aircraft and the P-51s claim 5-0-2; 2 P-38s and 1 P-51 are
lost; 4 P-47s and 1 P-51 are damaged; 4 pilots are MIA.
  Mission 334: 5 of 5 B-17s drop 1.55 million leaflets on 25 towns in
France and The Netherlands without loss.
  25 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER operations without loss.
  HQ 489th Bombardment Group (Heavy) arrives at Halesworth, England from
the US.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): The last of the 11 bombardment
groups (8 medium and 3 light) of the IX Bomber Command becomes operational.
  450 B-26s and A-20s attack numerous marshalling yards and industrial
targets in France and Belgium.
  406th Fighter Squadron, 371st Fighter Group, ceases operating from Ibsley,
England and returns to base at Bisterne with P-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers attack
bridges at Albinia Station, NW of Chiusi, in and near Grosseto, near Monte
Molino, Calafuria and at Pontedera; also attacked are a viaduct at Monte
Catellana and marshalling yards at Florence/Campo di Marte and Florence, with
particularly good results at Florence; light bombers hit an ammunition dump
at Fara in Sabina; P-40s and P-47s hit rail tracks in the Rome area, Priverno
Station, guns N of Anzio, dumps at Frascati, stations at Colleferro and
Frosinone, tracks at Orbetello and Orvieto, a bridge and tunnel N of Todi,
a road in Canino, a dump and factory at Stimigliono, vessels E of Piombino,
a factory E of Cecina, bridge approaches at Grosseto and Arezzo, a dump at
Grosseto and a tunnel at Rignano sull Arno.
  HQ 79th Fighter Group and 86th and 87th Fighter Squadrons move from
Capodichino to Pomigliano, Italy with P-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): Shore-based Air Force Forward
Area (Task Force 59) is activated to control all USAAF, US Navy (USN), and US
Marine Corps (USMC) shorebased aircraft in the C Pacific forward area; the
command is headed by Major General Willis H Hale, former Commanding General
of the Seventh Air Force.
  B-25s from Makin Island, Gilbert Islands bomb Jaluit Atoll, Marshall
Islands.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On New Britain Island,
Bismarck Archipelago, 24 B-24s over the Borpop area attack coastal guns;
40+ fighter-bombers and 30 USN dive bombers pound Vunakambi Plantation. 38
P-39s, flying 18 different missions, hit a variety of targets on SW
Bougainville Island, Solomon Islands, including missions at Tinputs,
Koromira and Tsimba, Hongorai River crossing, Numa Numa bridge and huts at
Aravia and Kunagaupau.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 180+ B-25s,
A-20s, and fighters pound the Wewak and Hansa Bay areas throughout the day.
Numerous coastline targets are hit, including airfields, vehicles,
communications, villages, AA positions, bivouacs, supplies, barges and
offshore islands.
  B-24s of the Thirteenth Air Task Force hit Woleai and Eauriprik Atolls,
Caroline Islands.
  HQ 86th Fighter Wing arrives at Finschhafen, New Guinea from the US.
  During May, HQ 310th Bombardment Wing (Medium) moves from Gusap to
Hollandia, New Guinea.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 06:50:18 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

Hello, Alan!

Yes, there are such designs as you mention. The Scorpion, the flail-
tank vehicle, a British design BTW, was designed to explode mines
without damaging the vehicle.

There were others, of course. I will check on some titles for you.
John Batchelor has produced some interesting sketches of devices, in
which you are interested. I will get back to you, if someone else
hasn't already.

More later.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 06:57:13 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44

Hello, Emmanuel and others!

> > I thought I was fairly familiar with World War II combat
> > aircraft, especially fighters, but a P-70?  What was that?  I
> > plead ignorance and anxiously await guidance!
>
> It was a nightfighter version of the A-20 twin-engined bomber. Not very
> successfull, because it lacked the climb and ceiling to intercept
> Japanese night bombers.

    Absolutely correct! The P-70 was terribly underpowered and,
because there was a lack of a fighter dedicated to night fighting at
the time, it was given a shot at it. The P-38M was much better, as
you know, and did pretty well until the introduction of the P-61.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 07:08:02 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Question: Cannon/Machine Gun

Hello, Tony!

Will do my best.

I will have to send you all I have on helicopters in WWII. This will
take time, and would ask you to be patient. There is much to send.

Will get back to you.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 07:01:04 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

Hello, Gerry!

Glad to hear from you.

> One that I recall was called the panjandrum (SP) which was a self propelled
> spool like affair, driven by rockets mounted on the side in Catherine-wheel
> like configuration. I can't recall the purposeof it but remember seeing a
> photo of it running amok during testing & believe it was scrapped as being
> as big a danger to friend as to foe.

    The Great Panjandrum was designed to blow up shore line
fortifications. It was controlled from the beach.

    The book you thinking about is "Secret Weapons of World War II"
by Gerald Pawle.

    This and other devices are detailed in it.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 07:50:44 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: WWII-L Meeting @ Jefferson Barracks

The event for Jefferson Barracks is still on!  I called last night and
found out the battle times are set for approx 10-11 and 1-3.  They are
usually determined by the crowd as to the specific times.  The USO show
will feature a LIVE BIG BAND, which means there will be some real 1940's
jitterbuggers there.  They may be pushing their 70's, but it doesn't
stop them.

The meeting of anyone attending will be at 11am at the 11th Panzer
Campsite, which will be the German encampment near the building with the
gift shop and the horse stables.  If there is a problem and the site has
to be moved, just look for a German encampment and ask them where 11th
Panzer is located--there should be a reproduction 247 (C) armored car
there.

I am going down early-early Saturday morning.  I should be there at abou
10am.

I know only a few have discussed going, and I hope this is the start of
a bigger and better event.  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 13:55:36 +0100
From:    Tom Holloway <[email-masked]>
Subject: EDU: To celebrate?

This was originally posted to the MEMRIES OF 1944
Education project by one of the Panel of Elders. I
thought WW2 list members might find it insteresting.

+-----------------------------+
! Tom Holloway +44 926-888333 !
! [email-masked]    !
+-----------------------------+

Subj.: D-Day Celebration
Re: To celebrate or not?

    Yes, I am for it! The D-DAY anniversary shall be celebrated in a suit-
able and appropriate way. There isn't any place for exurberances or jubi-
lant solemnizations. There are few veterans still alive who were involved
in the assault of the Allied Armed Forces on the Beaches of Normandy. How-
ever, there are two generations born after the end of WWII too. These en-
joy the fruits of the many  political and social changes, of the economic
growth and cultural progress up to now-a-days. These younger generations,
our children and grandchildren, shall be informed authentically about the
WWII. Verified data shall be considered only about the facts and the cir-
cumstances which led to the D-Day on June 6th, 1944.

    For me, the D-Day invasion was the 'sign of heavens' that the fascists'
system of the 3rd Reich was going to its inescapable end. The 'light' show-
ed at the end of the long war-tunnel at last. The hopes spread of the end-
ing to many miseries and sufferings, personal tragedies and perishing of
millions of people. These peoples were of different races and nations, war-
riors and non-combattants, men and women, children and elderly, unknown and
everywhere on the Earth. A schizophrenic and megalomaniac idealogy of the
national-socialism induced the WWII. It is linked to the person of Adolf
Hitler but he was not the only person responsible for it. Still, one con-
siders him as the synonym of the NAZI regime now.

    I learned about the Invasion at Neusiedel am See in Burgenland (Eastern
Austria). We stayed there in a camp preparing for a parade in Zagreb (Croa-
tia). The parade was to be held after seven months of training and on our
way to first and only leave in military service. Few nights later, an air-
raid by 'Mustangs' on our train at Brezice (some 20 km short of Zagreb) re-
sulted in revoking of the parade. One year later, I survived "The Croatians'
path to crucifixion" as P.o.W. of Tito's Armies.

    I will also commemorate the D-Day for those of the "Handzar Division"
who lost life fighting valiantly somewhere in Normandy. The Germans' Command
sent them against the Invasion Forces Armour without proper outfit. The
"Handzar Division" consisted of Croation soldiers recruited in Bosnia (hand-
zar = crooked dagger of turkish origin) neither properly trained nor used
to fight heavy weapons. Many died, few deserted and Germans decimated most
who survided unscanted this carnage. Very few returned alive home before the
Croatians collapsed to Tito's communist regime on May 15th 1945.

Zvonko Springer

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 07:44:13 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Smooth bore guns

>
> Could one of you experts please explain the principles behind the smooth bore
> gun.
>
> Why was it developed and what was its advantage over rifled guns. How widely
> was it used in ww2. Are they still used today?

Of course the first cannons were smooth bore.  Then grooves were cut parallel
to the bore, to lessen the effects of fouling.  After that, spiral rifling
was used to spin the projectile, giving greater stability and accuracy.

Modern smoothbore guns were created for a number of reasons.

        Hollow charge ammunition - The effects of hollow charge warheads are
        dispersed by spinning due to rifling.  The French addressed this
        problem by putting the inside of the shell on roller bearing so that
        the casing spins, but the charge doesn't.  The rest of the world either
        switched to smoothbore, fin stabilized projectiles, or ignored the
        problem.

        Saboted hypervelocity projectiles - It's easier to penetrate modern
        tank armor with a high velocity subcaliber projectile pushed by a
        full-bore propelling charge.  The projectile is carried in a bore
        sized "sabot".  It's easier to deal with the sabot in a smoothbore
        barrel.

        Barrel life - Rifling, especially at the breech end (throat) has a
        finite life.  This is true for everything from an M1 rifle to the
        120mm gun on an M1A2 tank.  Throat and bore erosion is less of a
        problem with smoothbore guns.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 07:28:34 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Question: Cannon/Machine Gun

>
> Folks,
>
> When dealing in aircraft, what is the difference between a cannon and
> a machine gun. Both are rapid fire? Is it a question of accuracy or rifle
> barrling?

It's very simple.

Machineguns fire (generally) NON-explosive, usually rifle caliber, ammunition.

Automatic cannons are generally just big machineguns which fire EXPLOSIVE
projectiles, and rely upon explosion of the projectiles to achieve target
effect.

Originally, machineguns were the same caliber as the infantry rifles and
machineguns (.303, 7.9mm, etc.)  Eventually, larger calibers such as 11mm,
and 12.7mm were used, to take advantage of their longer range and greater
penetration of armor.  Rifle caliber machineguns are usually limited to
helicopters now.

Cannons usually start at 20mm and go up to 37mm.  A few larger guns, such as
40mm Bofors antiaircraft guns are used on the AC130 gunships.

There have been a few single shot and semiautomatic cannons, but they are
generally the exception.  Davis recoilless rifles were used during WWI on
flying boats, to fire upon U-boats.  The Germans, Soviets, and Italians
experimented with large caliber cannon.  Some versions of the B25 had a
75mm howitzer mounted in the nose.  The AC130 gunship has a 105mm howitzer
mounted to fire laterally.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 08:45:39 -0400
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: P-70 Questions

Emmanuel, Skip, Bob, Fred, and Jack:

Thank you one and all for your quick responses to my questions
about the P-70.  I will never forget the info.

Thanks again for your help.

Jim

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        [email-masked]
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-8760
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-8760

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 13:37:05 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: LETTERS HOME: GETTING READY IN ENGLAND

     With the focus these days on June 6 and our landing in Normandy, there
is a tendency to forget that this was preceded by a great deal of preparation.
For most of us, this took place in the US and England.  For some, it happened
under fire in North Africa, Sicily, and Italy.
     Two of the chapters in my book LETTERS HOME are devoted to our time in
England, the first to getting settled and the other to getting ready.  The
following is excerpts from Chapter 4, ENGLAND: GETTING READY, as published
earlier in the IVY LEAVES, the 4th Infantry Division Association quarterly
newsletter.

Excerpts from Chapter 4: ENGLAND: GETTING READY

     It was my good fortune to be a member of the 4th Division
advance party to England. We crossed on the Queen Elizabeth in
record time. The story of my negotations with the people in
Axminister, Devon regarding arrangements for the 29th FA Battalion
is too long to tell here. However, once the battalion was settled,
we concentrated on getting ready for the invasion of the
continent.  We had had some amphibious training in the US, but this
was only a sample of what we experienced in England at Slapton
Sands, the Assault Training Center, and in the moors.

Diary, March 26, 1944
As the time to invade the continent draws nearer, one can see
everyone is getting tense.  No one says much about the operation
to come.  Perhaps not many of them think much about it - at least
realistically.  Of course it is hard for those of us who have not
seen combat to realize what it is really like.  Therefore we seem
not to know enough to be frightened.

Dear Folks, April 12, 1944
We had a  distinguished visitor today, who was making a tour of
the units in the division.  We had batteries scattered all over
taking various types of training so he could see us.
All my love, John

     The VIP was General Omar Bradley, who would command Operation
Overlord. In addition to visiting units in the field, so the
enlisted men could see him, he addressed all the officers from the
assault divisions at a meeting in Exeter.
     During his speech, General Bradley commented that we were
indeed fortunate, since we would have a front row seat on the
greatest amphibious operation in history.  At first, there was
silence.  Then, someone began to laugh, and a nervous roar of
laughter swept over the room.  General Bradley looked puzzled and
then went on with his speech.  A professional soldier, he simply
did not understand that we civilians were less enthusiastic about
war than he was.

     Before leaving Axminster, I was among those officers in the
battalion who were briefed on Operation Overlord.  Before going
into the briefing room to learn about the invasion plans, someone
suggested we each try to guess where it would be.  I do not
remember what my guess was, but it was wrong.
     Shortly after this, I went with a driver and an armed guard
to division headquarters near Tiverton to pick up a copy of the
operational plan.  There were also maps and some foam rubber models
of the beach area.  Before I departed with these, an officer
instructed me that I should under no circumstances let anyone get
control of them. He also gave me several incendiary grenades.  If
anyone tried to stop us and take the orders, we were to shoot first
and ask questions later.
     Happily, no one tried to stop us, and I breathed more easily
when we got back to Axminster.
     After we got to our assembly area, where security was complete, we
briefed everyone in the battalion on the operational plan.
     Finally, June 4 arrived and we boarded trucks to take us to
the landing craft in the river Dart.  In order to get to them, we
had to cross the river on a ferry. As we boarded the ferry, I
noticed an Englishman counting us.  Always curious, I asked him why
he was doing this.   Because, son, we are going to charge a
shilling for each of you, against your Lend Lease.
     Thus having a front row seat on the greatest amphibious
operation in history was not entirely free.  END TEXT
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 10:48:18 -0400
From:    David Rising <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

On Thu, 28 Apr 1994, Alan Wild wrote:

> Does anyone have a comprehensive list of the special singular purpose
> machines design for the Normandy beach assault? I can remember Mulberry
> Harbors, and some chain flailing mechanized mine clearing vehicles, but
> weren't there more? -Al

There's a good article on these weapons in the most recent WWII magazine
(D-day commemerative issue), which you should find at any large newsstand.
David Rising

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 07:57:53 PST
From:    "Jones, Scott T." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44

     Hello, Y'all;

     When was the P-61 introduced to the art of air combat? What were the
     duties of the two aircrew members who were not the pilot? Was one a
     navigator and the other a look out for the pilot? Also, wasn't there a
     bomber variant of this used in Korea?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Scott T. Jones                | "I just want to be alone with my thought."
     Dahlgren, VA 22448  USA       |                           - Homer Simpson
     Internet: [email-masked]  |
_____________________________________________________________________________

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
    Absolutely correct! The P-70 was terribly underpowered and,
because there was a lack of a fighter dedicated to night fighting at
the time, it was given a shot at it. The P-38M was much better, as
you know, and did pretty well until the introduction of the P-61.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 08:26:31 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

That book on specialized devices developed for D-Day ...
You are probably thinking of the book by Neville Shute. It think it
was originally entitled PANJANDRUM when it first came out in England.
In North America, it was entitled SECRET WEAPONS OF WORLD WAR TWO.
        Shute himself served in the Special Weapons Directorate at the
time, as Lt. Neville Shute Norway, Royal Navy. He later became better
known as the novelist Neville Shute.
        Hope this helps, Gerry.
Regards from Victoria.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 11:49:45 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

>> Does anyone have a comprehensive list of the special singular purpose
>> machines design for the Normandy beach assault? I can remember Mulberry
>> Harbors, and some chain flailing mechanized mine clearing vehicles, but
>> weren't there more? -Al
>
>There's a good article on these weapons in the most recent WWII magazine
>(D-day commemerative issue), which you should find at any large newsstand.
>David Rising

Just what I'm looking for,... Thanks Dave.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.5             Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881                            Bitnet:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: [email-masked]
Murphy's First Two Political Principles:
1. No matter what they're telling you, it's not the whole truth.
2. No matter what they're talking about, they're talking about money.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 10:51:45 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: DOC: Command Decisions, Chap. 10

Hi, chapter 10 of Command Decisions, OVERLORD versus the Mediterranean
at the Cairo-Tehran Conferences, had been uploaded to byrd in the
/pub/history/military/wwii/command.decisions directory in plain ascii, Unix
compressed, and zip formats.  Other chapters will be uploaded as they
are sent to me.

BTW, for anyone waiting for a reply from me, please be patient. My semester
will be over Tuesday and I'll try to catch up on all pending correspondence
by next Friday.

TIA,
Larry J

[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 11:51:37 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

Now,... this is definitely off topic, but does anyone know the name
of the weapon/shell used in Desert Storm to crush/collapse the Iraqi
tunnels and bunkers? It detonated into a petro-checmical ring of fluid
about 100' off the ground and ignited around the edge to burn inward
with a concussion that was said, on CNN, to be equivalent to a tac-nuke.

Does anyone know of this device?

(Sorry for the off topic, Big Joe, but my curiosity has got me here.)

-Alan

"Woof woof woof. That's my other dog impression." -Sutherland

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.5             Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881                            Bitnet:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: [email-masked]
Murphy's First Two Political Principles:
1. No matter what they're telling you, it's not the whole truth.
2. No matter what they're talking about, they're talking about money.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 12:32:36 EDT
From:    Matt Donovan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

From: Matt Donovan

     It sounds to me like you are referring to a fuel-air explosive. I
just told you all I know about it (-:, but I'm sure others on the list
know far more about it than me.

                                          Matt

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 12:56:57 -0400
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Tank engines

Sidney Allinson writes:
> I think you would find that the German tanks usualy used diesel fuel.

The many variants of the Pzkw III and Pzkw IV used two variants of the
Maybach V-12 gasoline engine.  The Panther also used a larger Maybach
gasoline engine as did the Tiger I and II.  The T-34 used a diesel 12
cylinder "V-2" engine.  This is from various Squadron In Action books
and Uwe Feist's "Deutsche Panzer: 1914-1945".
--
Joe Barone
[email-masked]
It's a Mark 6!  And we got her by the ass!

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 13:26:44 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

In the movie "The Big Red One" the troops landing at Normandy had to setup
a large pipe-like weapon for some purpose not made clear in the movie. The
device seemed to be a series of pipe 2.5 or so inches in diameter that had
to be screwed into each other to form a long tube. I think it shot off some
explosive or something.

The commentator mentioned wanting to meet "the asshole that invented it".

Does anybody know what that was, and how it operated, how many were used,
under what conditions, etc.?

Sounds wierd enough to me...

Thanx                                                           Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag BUT
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 12:44:57 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44

Hello, Scott!

I am currently posting privately some info on this aircraft. It is my
intention to answer questions such as yours, also radar development,
and anything else associated with the development of the P-61. Are
you interested? If you are, I will post all my info to the list. It
will be lengthy and will take time, but if you want it I will post it
to the list.

Please advise.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 14:10:18 EST
From:    GERMAN 101/102 LAB <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Tank engines

IRT tank fuel, the current German Leopards can use EITHER gas or
diesel.  An ex-Leopard driver told me he could make the changeover
in about 40 minutes.  This changeover evidently involves opening or
closing various valves to increase (for diesel) compression or
decrease compression (for gasoline).  Does anyone have any idea
whether this technology was used in WW II?  It seems to be an
awfully practical idea for a unit that must depend on captured enemy
fuel.

Dale Lally
St. Lawrence University
Canton NY 13617
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 13:09:44 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: General MacArthur

What ever happened to MacArthur's son?  Is Mrs. MacArthur still alive?

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 11:19:37 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Question: Cannon/Machine Gun

>
> Cannons fire explosive projectiles, machine guns don't.

Actually, there have been some explosive projectiles made for rifle caliber
machineguns, including 7.92x57mm and 7.7x58mm Japanese.  These were commonly
used in aircraft machineguns, both for spotting and because of their minor
explosive effect.  I believe that technically, they're prohibited by the Hague
Convention, or at least use of them directly on troops is.

The latter caused some havoc years ago with reloaders who unknowingly tried to
use inertia bullet pullers on what they thought was normal ammunition.  Inertia
pullers work like a hammer into which you insert the cartridge, and rap a solid
section against a hard surface, causing the bullet's inertia to pull it out of
the case neck.  A few people were seriously injured when the bullets flew into
the bottom of the puller and detonated.

I believe the Japanese ones at least, have silver tips.  Avoid them.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 16:00:41 -0400
From:    James E Irwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

> Much deleted
>In the movie "The Big Red One" the troops landing at Normandy had to setup
>a large pipe-like weapon for some purpose not made clear in the movie. The
>device seemed to be a series of pipe 2.5 or so inches in diameter that had
>to be screwed into each other to form a long tube. I think it shot off some
>explosive or something.
>
>The commentator mentioned wanting to meet "the asshole that invented it".
>
>Does anybody know what that was, and how it operated, how many were used,
>under what conditions, etc.?
>
>Sounds wierd enough to me...
>
>Thanx                                                           Steve
>
>  Steve,

That sounds like a Bangalore torpedo.  One use is to blow hole
in a barbed wire obstacle without getting up close and personal
and exposing yourself to much unwanted attention.

Where the name comes from and any other uses I will leave to the
very many experts on this list.
Jim

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 James E. Irwin (Jim)                  Internet address:
 Defense Personnel Support Center        [email-masked]
 2800 S. 20th Street                   215-737-8760
 Philadelphia PA  19101-8419           Autovon 444-8760

                     "Never in the field of human conflict
                     was so much owed by so many to so few."
                               Winston S. Churchill
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 15:03:26 CDT
From:    Robert Hohlt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Tank engines

> series of pipe 2.5 or so inches in diameter that had
>to be screwed into each other to form a long tube. I think it shot off some
>explosive or something.

Bangolore Torpedo?

Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 14:58:03 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: WEAP: Weird Weapons

It was really used more as a psychological weapon and an attempt to use
concussion to clear minefields.  That is the BLU-82--known in Vietnam as
the Daisy Cutter.  They are dropped out of the back of a
C-130---generally a MC-130 Combat Talon Special Operations Airlifter.  I
remember this bomb well because we had a requirement to ship them over
to the gulf and all the action officers in the Command Center were
scratching their heads as to what a BLU-82 was.  They turned to my desk
and said--Lieutenant--find out what these things are--we dug around in
Janes and came up with some French airfield cratering system--which
wasn't correct.  I'll never forget what a BLU-82 is!  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 14:59:53 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: WEAP: Weird Weapons

You might also be talking about FAE's--fuel air explosives--they release
an explosive gas and then detontate them--they are wicked.  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 15:11:57 -0500
From:    Joe Pohlmann <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Tirpitz  (Graf Spee)

        In comparing the Graf Spee to the HMS Norfolk CA, I was not implying
that they had actually ever engaged one another.  I was simply stating that
comparable sized ships did not have comparable sized armament or speed.
        Thanks for setting that straight.

Joe Pohlmann

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 11:51:00 -0400
From:    "Dennis E. Sparks" <[email-masked]>
Subject: A-20 Havoc/Boston

Jim's question about the P-70 nightfighter version of the A-20
brought to mind an even more unusual variant, the Turbinlite Boston.

Originally ordered by the French, the remaining undelivered DB-7s
were diverted to the British, who named it the Boston.  (DB-7 was the
designation of the export version of the aircraft that later became
the A-20.  The British later adopted the American name for the
aircraft, Havoc.)  Several of the original DB-7s were converted to
Turbinlite aircraft.  A 2700 million candlepower searchlight was
fitted into the nose of the aircraft, powered by a generator fitted
into the bomb bay.  These aircraft were painted black, and carried
no armament, but were radar-equipped.  The intent was that they would
be accompanied by aloft at night by Hurricanes.  The Turbinlite was
to try illuminate German bombers, so that the Hurricanes could shoot
them down.  They achieved no success at all, and the concept was
abandoned after more capable aircraft were developed.

BTW, one of the reasons for the P-70's relative lack of success was
that the intended turbochargers were deleted, producing an aircraft
with lower than needed performance above about 20000 feet.

IMHO, the A-20 was one of the underrated attack aircraft of WWII.
It performed remarkably well in its intended roles from the Pacific,
to the Med, to Europe, without receiving the accolades that it
deserved.

Dennis E. Sparks
[email-masked]
Lexington, Kentucky

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 18:10:53 EST
From:    "CARL WERNKE (TCWERNC@VCCSCENT)" <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: General MacArthur

 X-TO: [email-masked]
 TO: Multiple recipients of list WWII-L ([email-masked])

 On Fri, 29 Apr 1994, at 13:09:44, Michael D. Wallick wrote:
 > What ever happened to MacArthur's son ? Is Mrs.MacArthur still alive ?
 Arthur MacArthur V, son of General Douglas MacArthur, is involved in
 New York City musicals and using an assumed name. He is also taking care of
 his mother, now 95 years young, and still active living in the Waldorf Hotel
 in New York City.

 The curator of the MacArthur Memorial, located in Norfolk, VA, informed me
 that plans are Mrs.MacArthur (Jeane), will be interned alongside the General.

 Carl Wernke
 [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 18:40:22 EDT
From:    Richard Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Subject: WEAP: Bangalore Torpedos (was Weird Weapons)

Scott, what you're describing is a Bangalore Torpedo, a long contraption,
usually fitted together pipe, with an explosive end.  The explosive is
detonated by timer or fuse.  They were/are used in infantry assaults to open
gaps in concertina or other "light" obstacles.  The more intrepid use would be
to silence pillbox type fortifications and even armoured vehicles.

I don't remember the scene from THE BIG RED ONE but in the LONGEST DAY, about 5
men are killed assembling one, before they open a gap on Omaha Beach.

When I was in the IDF, my company did split duty as Heavy Weapons and Assault.
We practiced extensively following sappers through the mines, laying down tape,
and setting up bangalores.  I don't believe we ever would have actually used
them, but the constant rehearsal and changing positions established fantastic
teamwork ability, and real proficiency in every feature of small unit assaults.

                                        Richard Kaplan
                                        Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh
P.S. Its derivation is credited to the British.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 17:19:19 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

Steve Padillo...
        That device was a "bangalore torpedo" -- intended to be pushed
under barbed=wire entanglements, then exploded.
        [Named after city of Bangalore -- Indjah, and all that!  :-) ]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 29 Apr 1994 17:18:48 -0700
From:    Gerry Walker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

I think what your are referring to was called the Bangalore torpedo and, as
I understand it, the lengths of pipe were connected & pushed forward to the
target area & a chrge of some type was sent down through it.

Used, I believe, for destruction of pill boxes, wire & other obstacles...

Cheers,

Gerry

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 28 Apr 1994 to 29 Apr 1994
*************************************************