Subject: WWII-L Digest - 22 Apr 1994 to 23 Apr 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 00:01:02 -0400

There are 16 messages totalling 426 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Pearl Harbor (black sailors)
  2. Two questions... (2)
  3. Molotov Cocktails
  4. GEN: Doolittle Reunion Photos
  5. ITALIAN CELEBRATION
  6. INFO: Military aircraft & vehicles display
  7. DOC: GPO Subject Bibliography: Military History (2)
  8. Pre WWI Sword
  9. <No subject given>
 10. WWI sword
 11. Grant tank
 12. Possible D-Day reenactment
 13. TRV: Uniforms
 14. NOST: 50 years ago this week

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Date:    Fri, 22 Apr 1994 09:19:54 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor (black sailors)

>
> >2. Black sailors and servicemen at Pearl Harbor.
> >
> Robert,
> I know of one black sailor, who was either on the Utah or California, who was
> from Waco, TX.  I am from Waco and that is how I know of him.  He is somewhat a
> local hero.  Unfortunately, he did not survive the war and was killed in action

Doris(Dorie?) Miller.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Apr 1994 12:40:29 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Two questions...

>
> Question #1:
> Concerning the recent thread on Molotov cocktails being thrown
> at tanks...  How the heck were they supposed to disable a tank?
> I mean, throwing one at a car, and having it go through the
> windshield... I can understand how that could ruin your day if
> you were inside, but how were they supposed to damage a *tank*
> if it's buttoned up?  Paint damage excepted, of course.  :-)
> A quart or so of gasoline only contains about 25,000 BTU, and
> it's going to spread over a fairly large area when the bottle
> breaks.

Have you ever been on or near an operating armored vehicle?

If not, there are three ways:

1) The engine of a tank is AIR breathing.  Breathing FIRE is not good for
it.

2) WWII era tanks were not airtight under combat conditions.  Burning gasoline
splashing in through the vision slits, weapons ports, and air inlets tends to
distract the crew.

3) The engine compartment of an armored vehicle is usually heavily saturated
with oil, either lubricating, diesel or both.  Many tanks had somewhat leaky
fuel systems which deposited diesel or gasoline in the engine compartments.
By any stretch of the imagination, that is a fire hazard.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Apr 1994 13:00:34 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Molotov Cocktails

>
> <The following is from "WWII: Strange and Fascinating Facts"
>
> <Molotov Cocktail - Name given to a bottle filled with flammable liquid
> <used to knock out tanks.  attached to the bottle was a wick, which was
> <lit before the bottle was hurled against a tank.  When the bottle broke,
> <the wick ignited the liquid, setting the tank on fire.  The name was
>
> Doug,
> Please explain how metal can be made to burn. What kind of liquid would be
> suitable to "set a tank on fire"?

I don't believe that either the fuel, lubricants, ammunition or crew are made
of metal.... :)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Apr 1994 22:24:53 PST
From:    rod holmes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Two questions...

< I'm unsure of the name for this tank; was it the Grant?  It's main
< armament was on one side and could fire forwards  and swivel to one side
< only.  I forget the size of the cannon, but I think there was a 37mm
< above the main armament which could rotate a full 360 degrees.  This is
< all from memory and may not be quite right.

The offical name of this tank while in US Army service was the M3. The
names Grant and Lee were given to the tank by the British. The Grant was
the M3 with a British designed turrent, while the Lee was the name given to
tank that were the standard US Army model. The main armament was a 75mm gun
mounted in a limited traverse turrent on the starboard side of the front
hull. So, you were pretty close.

< My question is why would anyone design a tank like this?  Does anyone
< have info on the design concept?  Is there some valid reason or is it
< just bad design?   Thanks.

It was a stop gap design. When the US entered the war it's armament
industry couldn't produce a turrent that could hold a 75mm cannon and
a tank that carried a gun of equal size to a PzKpfw IV was needed. So, the
Army developed the M3 until the turrent for the M4 Sherman could be
developed. Another interrestting peice of information is that both the M3
and M4 used basically the same chassis. So, most of the mechanical problems
were worked out of the Sherman ahead of time.

Hope this helps,
Rod Holmes                      | Thanks for the book information.
[email-masked]        |       -RH

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Apr 1994 02:08:01 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: Doolittle Reunion Photos

Well, I have in my grubby little hands a few pictures from yonder
foreign culture known as California.  I've also spend something on
order of the last two hours scanning a few of them.

I have one (and only one at the moment) online and available by ftp
at itasca.stat.umn.edu (128.101.51.9) in wwii/gifs/Reunion94 and called
formation1.jpg.

I scanned these pictures to serve my needs, I don't have color monitor
to review them and they have gone through so many conversion processes
I have no idea what ends up getting returned.  :-)

In any case, while I don't know if that lone image is at least viewable,
but if it is and the quality is acceptable (and someone tells me it is :-),
then I'll upload about a dozen more pics.  Otherwise I'll assume it's
garbage.

(Scanning at $18/hour is still cheaper than a Friday date... :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Apr 1994 15:19:25 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: ITALIAN CELEBRATION

  FOR JACK MCKILLIP
  Oslo, April 23.
  Thanks for posting that letter from the NYT about the Italian celebrations.
Even though fate had me land in Normandy on D-Day, it has seemed to me a pity
that so many other annivesaries get so little attention.  Each day, I read on
the editorial page of the International Herald Tribune a news item from fifty
years ago.  Event after event slips by, with little notice given to it.  I can
well understand that the veterans who were there resent this.
  The reason for this is not hard to find.  There are a great many lights
flashing for the media.  They respond only to those that are flashing most
brightly.  One thing that brings this about is the presence of the President of
the US.
  Pearl Harbor got heavy media play not only because it brought the US into the
war but because President Bush was there.
  As far as the campaign in Europe is concerned, the 50th Anniversary group in
the Pentagon has decided to concentrate on D-Day in Normandy.  So have the
media.  Other events will be handled by local US military commanders and will
hence get less, if any, coverage.
  Returning to the letter, it is interesting that at least some Italians think
of being liberated by the Allies.  It is too bad that more Germans do not feel
this way also.  President Weizsaecker made a speech on the 40th anniversary of
D-Day in which he alluded to being liberated, but there was little resonance of
this by other Germans.
  In this connection, it will be interesting to see how the Germans mark VE-Day.
At present, it looks as though Chancellor Kohl will be in London.
  It will be even more interesting to see how the Japanese mark VJ-Day.
  QUESTION:  The letter refers to President Clinton going to Anzio on June 3.
This is the first I have heard of this.  Can anyone throw light on this?
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Apr 1994 10:33:44 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INFO: Military aircraft & vehicles display

Is this museum in Valparaiso the one that is ran by Fred Ropkey?  If
there is a German Hetzer there--that is MY Hetzer---the 11th Panzer's
Hetzer Geli, which is stored over there.  You haven't lived until you've
been running along side a Hetzer shooting your MP-40.  Life is good.

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Apr 1994 12:07:15 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: DOC: GPO Subject Bibliography: Military History

The GPO Subject Bibliography for Military History is now available in plain
text format at byrd.mu.wvnet.edu /pub/history/military/GPO_bibs. Information
on ordering from GPO is available on byrd, or from you nearest GPO outlet.

Larry J

[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Apr 1994 13:13:08 -0400
From:    Barry <[email-masked]>
Subject: Pre WWI Sword

Hi.....

I was wondering if anyone knows the approximate value/collectability of a
pre world war I sword dating 1867.  It was used by a Newfoundland Officer
during World War I and is in Mint Condition with Scabbard.

Any information on this would be greatly appreciated.

 --
       * Barry Wheeler *         |    O    O    O     O    O    O     |
      Westviking College         |   \|\  \|\  \|\   \|\  \|\  \|\    |
P.O. Box 822, Corner Brook, NF   |   <</  <</  <</   \>>  \>>  \>>    |
       Canada, A2H 6H6           |  //   //   //       \\   \\   \\   |
 [email-masked]   |         * SKIING ANYONE? *         |

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Apr 1994 13:33:10 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: DOC: GPO Subject Bibliography: Military History

Is there any I can get the bib?  Unfortunately, I am still in the BITNET
world...

George Bauer
U.S.A.:  [email-masked]

Thanks...

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Apr 1994 13:52:07 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

Hello, Barry!

Bill Huber is the expert on militaria and its accoutrements.

Any thoughts, Bill!

Terry

----------------------------------------------------------------------

> I was wondering if anyone knows the approximate value/collectability of a
> pre world war I sword dating 1867.  It was used by a Newfoundland Officer
> during World War I and is in Mint Condition with Scabbard.
>
> Any information on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
>  --
>        * Barry Wheeler *         |    O    O    O     O    O    O     |
>       Westviking College         |   \|\  \|\  \|\   \|\  \|\  \|\    |
> P.O. Box 822, Corner Brook, NF   |   <</  <</  <</   \>>  \>>  \>>    |
>        Canada, A2H 6H6           |  //   //   //       \\   \\   \\   |
>  [email-masked]   |         * SKIING ANYONE? *         |
>

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Apr 1994 20:14:07 BST
From:    Stephen Baldwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: WWI sword

        > I was wondering if anyone knows the approximate value/collectability of a
        > pre world war I sword dating 1867.  It was used by a Newfoundland Officer
        > during World War I and is in Mint Condition with Scabbard.
        >
        > Any information on this would be greatly appreciated.
        >
        >  --
        >        * Barry Wheeler *         |    O    O    O     O    O    O     |
        >       Westviking College         |   \|\  \|\  \|\   \|\  \|\  \|\    |
        > P.O. Box 822, Corner Brook, NF   |   <</  <</  <</   \>>  \>>  \>>    |
        >        Canada, A2H 6H6           |  //   //   //       \\   \\   \\   |
        >  [email-masked]   |         * SKIING ANYONE? *         |
        >
Interesting one Barry - is anything known of this officer?
I was wondering whether he would have been present at the terrible
slaughtering of the Newfoundlanders at Beaumont Hamel 1st July
1916 (The Somme)?

steve baldwin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Apr 1994 19:42:07 -0400
From:    John Horner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Grant tank

Jim,

I believe the reason that the Grant was designed with such an awkward
sponsoon mounted 75mm cannon had mostly to do with the fact that US tank
manufacturers had little experience in designing and producing large turrets,
which would have been needed to house such a large (for the time) gun.
The 37mm cannon mounted in the turret was not really a problem, but with
British experience in the desert, a 75 was seen as desirable and the only
place that it could be mounted in a short period of time was in the hull.

John Horner

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Apr 1994 18:50:03 -0500
From:    Rick Cox <[email-masked]>
Subject: Possible D-Day reenactment

Hello to all,

I have been hearing rumors of a possible D-Day reenactment to take place in
Chicago.  The rumors state;

1. It is supposed to take place on either 11/12 or 18/19 June.

2. It is supposed to include landing craft, possible naval support, and
   many WWII reenactment groups.

3. Rumor has it that members of the Confederate Air Force will take part.

I have been hearing things from several different sources.  I also saw part
of an article in the Chicago Sun Times a week or two ago that described the
actions being taken by a Chicago Alderman in an attempt to block the
reenactment.

I am hoping that someone on this list can provide more information about
the reenactment.

Thanks in advance

Rick Cox           Ameritech Extended Classroom Support (Full Time)
[email-masked]     HHD 44th Chem Bn, IL ARNG (Part Time)
Former member L Troop, 3rd Squadron, 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment
Toujours Pret

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Apr 1994 13:33:30 +1000
From:    Mick Fauchon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRV: Uniforms

        Warren,

                Sorry, my research tells me I was wrong on both counts.
        They are actually G"oring's personal bodyguard (SA), therefore
brown uniforms with cuff-title and swastika armband.
        Don't have the book with me today, but I'll bring it to-morrow
and send you the details.

                                                                Cheers,

                                                                Mick.

--                                                                          --
Mick Fauchon                          | Internet: [email-masked]
Reference Section, Auchmuty Library   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 215861
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA    | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Apr 1994 23:57:02 EDT
From:    "Jonah Triebwasser, Adjunct Instructor,
         Marist Coll" <[email-masked]>
Subject: NOST: 50 years ago this week

I have obtained two calendars, one from the International Churchill
Society and one from the US Department of Defense which highlights
some of the events of WWII. As time permits, I will post some of
these events:

Fifty Years ago this week:
Sources: (c) = Churchill society; (d) = Defense Dept.
24 April - US declares invasion of Japan will be necessary (c).
25 April - Patton states that Britain and US will rule post-war world(c)
27 April - Travel abroad from Britain banned (c).
28 April - Churchill and Smuts dine at Chequers (c).
29 April - Allied bombing patterns in France confuse Germans (c).
30 April - Churchill plans to inform DeGaulle about D-Day on June 4 (c).

My 2 cents on "When Lions Roared": I found the split screen technique
to be irritating after the novelty wore off (about 10 minutes into the
show.) The exchange of correspondence as a basis for film dialog was
done much better in "Churchill and the Generals" a mIni-series made
in 1981 and now available on video. It had Timothy West as Churchill
who (along with a later interpretation by Robert Hardy) was much more
believable as Churchill than Bob Hoskins in tons of make-up.
I did enjoy Michael Caine as Stalin and John Lithgow as FDR. Their
acting was excellent, especially Lithgow as the dying FDR in Yalta.
"Churchill and the Generals" also has the late Joseph Cotton as Gen.
George Marshall, Richard Dysart as Ike, the superb Ian Richardson as
Monty and Eric Porter (who played Neville Chamberlain in the Robert
Hardy Churchill series) as Gen. Alan Brooke. Rent or buy this one.
You'll enjoy it!

Jonah Triebwasser
Adjunct Instructor
Marist College
Dyson Building (Adult Education)
Poughkeepsie, New York12601
Tel: (914) 575-3331, ext. 7037
E-Mail: [email-masked]

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End of WWII-L Digest - 22 Apr 1994 to 23 Apr 1994
*************************************************