Subject: WWII-L Digest - 24 Apr 1994 to 25 Apr 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 00:00:13 -0400

There are 38 messages totalling 1063 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. B-25 attack on Japan (4)
  2. Question on deaths of POWs
  3. NOST: 50 years ago this week (3)
  4. INF: USAAF 25 APR 44
  5. MEDIA: FURTHER ON TV PROGRAMS (2)
  6. Two questions...
  7. Japanese Underground? (2)
  8. Dutch underground newspapers (2)
  9. World War II Television Program
 10. Churchill's health
 11. Military and Aircraft show (2)
 12. more questions (2)
 13. TAC: Patton's phantom army
 14. weap:WWII nuclear capability
 15. VET:Wall of Liberty
 16. Lindbergh (2)
 17. Exercise Tiger (3)
 18. Tusgegee Airmen (2)
 19. ADMIN - Digest request
 20. Nazi Bombers
 21. GEN: More CA pix
 22. Re[2]: NOST: 50 years ago this week (2)
 23. Re[2]: MEDIA: FURTHER ON TV PROGRAMS

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Apr 1994 10:08:15 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: B-25 attack on Japan

>
> I recently read that the second attack of a B-25 on Japan was a raid on
> Paramushiro on July 10, 1943.
>
> However, none of my three atlases list the town.
>
> Can anybody tell me about this?
>
> Is the book wrong?  Is the town misspelled or the name changed?
> Do I need a better atlas?

Make sure it's actually on mainland Japan.  It could be in Korea or Taiwan,
or a number of other places.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 00:02:10 -0500
From:    "WILLIAM L. HUBER - SAA" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Question on deaths of POWs

> Date:    Thu, 21 Apr 1994 17:02:12 EDT
> >From:    Robert E George <[email-masked]>
> Subject: POL: Genevea Convention/Trials of PoW's
>
>      As the Geneva Convention was applied during the 2nd World War by
> the U.S. and Germany, how were criminal cases (such as the murder of
> a German PoW by another German PoW in a U.S. camp) handled? I assume the
> accused was tried according to some precepts of military justice: was
> his case heard by U.S. officers? German officers? A mixture of the two?
> Did he have U. S. Army counsel? A German officer as counsel?
>
>      Rob

Hi Rob,

This question is answered to a "T" in the book _The Killing of
Corporal Kunze_ by Wilma Parnell ISBN 0-8184-0312-8  (1981).

It centers on the case of 5 German Army (Afrika Korps) NCOs who beat
to death another POW who, in their opinion, aided and abetted the
enemy.  A kangaroo court was held in one of the barracks at camp
Tonkawa, Oklahoma that found Kunze guilty and these 5 NCOs were
appointed to be the "Heilige Geist" (Holy Ghost) which was an old
German Army tradition of "correcting" soldiers who were Gomer Pyle
types or slackers.  The US military has something similar called
"blanket parties".  They are not official in any way but are the way
Armies the world over "self correct" without going into a lot of red
tape legalities.

The 5 NCOs were tried by US Army Courts Marshal and the prosecuting
attorney was an officer of the JAG (Judge Advocate General) named Leon
Jaworski (later of Watergate fame).  The 5 were found guilty of murder
and hanged at Ft. Leavenworth, Kansas  July 10, 1945.

There were attempts by the German government to effect a prisoner
trade but they failed to come about.

Kunze is buried in the POW cemetery at El Reno, Oklahoma which had a
large POW camp there as well.  I visited the site in 1984 while
researching a paper on German POW camps in Oklahoma.

Cheers, Bill Huber / [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 10:37:38 +0100
From:    Dmitri Brasoun <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: B-25 attack on Japan

>>
>> I recently read that the second attack of a B-25 on Japan was a raid on
>> Paramushiro on July 10, 1943.
>>
>> However, none of my three atlases list the town.
>>
>> Can anybody tell me about this?
>>
>> Is the book wrong?  Is the town misspelled or the name changed?
>> Do I need a better atlas?
>
>Make sure it's actually on mainland Japan.  It could be in Korea or Taiwan,
>or a number of other places.

May be it was not the town? I am not sure, but it seems to me that
one of the islands which was taken from Japan by SU after war is
called  Paramushiro. It is still Russian territory. Unfortunately
I haven't atlas to check it. You can do it: it is situated somewhere
between Sakhalin and Japan itself.

                                                Dmitry.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 09:52:02 GMT
From:    Johannes van Vuren <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NOST: 50 years ago this week

Please let us know where the "Churchill and the Generals" video is obtainable
from. Especially in England. I saw it years ago on TV and remember how
realistic and interesting it was. There was a scene where Churchill and
Montgomery had lunch together. Ch asked "General a drink?" and Monty replied
"Sir I dont smoke and I dont drink and Im one hundred percent fit". Ch looked
him up and down and said "You know general, I smoke and I drink and Im two
hundred percent fit". He was.

Many thanks,
Johannes van Vuren.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 13:05:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: B-25 attack on Japan

> I recently read that the second attack of a B-25 on Japan was a raid on
> Paramushiro on July 10, 1943.
>
George, Jack McKillop wrote:

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
July 10, 1943.

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force)
    The Eleventh Air Force attacks the Japanese Home Islands for the first
time as 8 B-25's raid Paramushiru Island in the Kurile Islands, scoring
hits on the S part of Shimushu Island, Paramushiru Island, Kurile Strait,
and northern Paramushiru Island, in dead reckoning runs when solid cloud
cover prevents a maximum altitude attack.  No AA fire is encountered and no
enemy aircraft are sighted. The B-25's stage through Attu Island on
returning to Adak Island. 6 B-24's, originally slated to accompany the
B-25's to Paramushiru Island and 5 other B-25's are on short notice
dispatched to attack a convoy off Attu Island. They claim 2 medium
freighters sunk in deck-level strikes.

Hopes this help you
Peter de Lange

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 07:11:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 25 APR 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 25 APRIL 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  Beaufighter, Bristol
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  ALASKA (Eleventh Air Force): 3 B-24s photograph and bomb installations on
Matsuwa Island.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 8 B-25s attack Tiddim road; 80+
fighter-bombers and 2 B-25s hit a variety of targets at Kamaing, Nsopzup and
Mogaung; 12 P-51s hit Japanese HQ at Katha and supply huts at Hopin; near
Mandalay 12 B-24s bomb Monywa-Alon while 21 P-38s hit airfields at Heho,
destroying several aircraft in the air and on the ground.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 317 Part 1: 554 bombers
and 719 fighters are dispatched to hit marshalling yards and airfields in
France and Germany; 7 bombers and 2 fighters are lost; the bombers make no
Luftwaffe aircraft claims.
  1. 199 B-24s are dispatched to the marshalling yard at Mannheim, Germany; 7
bomb the primary, 16 bomb the marshalling yard at Landau, Germany and 8 hit
targets of opportunity; 5 B-24s are lost and 26 damaged; casualties are 1 KIA,
4 WIA and 49 MIA.
  2. 229 B-17s are dispatched to Nancy/Essay Airfield (42 bomb) and Metz/
Frascaty Airfield (98 bomb), France and 2 hit targets of opportunity; 2 B-17s
are lost and 33 damaged; casualties are 1 KIA, 3 WIA and 20 MIA.
  3. 121 of 126 B-17s hit Dijon/Longvic Airfield, France; 29 B-17s are
damaged; 2 airman are WIA.
  Escort is provided by 177 P-38s, 296 P-47s and 246 Eighth and Ninth Air
Force P-51s; the fighters claim 5-0-1 Luftwaffe aircraft in the air and
29-7-42 on the ground; details are: P-38s claim 5-0-9 aircraft, 1 P-38 is
damaged beyond repair and 2 damaged, no casualties; P-47s claim 5-0-8
aircraft; 3 P-47s are damaged; 1 pilot is KIA; P-51s claim 24-7-26 aircraft,
2 P-51s are lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 1 damaged, 2 pilots are MIA.
  Mission 317 Part 2: 27 of 28 B-24s bomb V-weapons sites at Wizerenes,
France without loss.  Escort is provided by 40 P-47s.
  Mission 318: 6 of 6 B-17s drop 4.2 million leaflets on 20 towns in France
including Calais, Metz, Blainville, Paris, Mulhouse and Reims without loss.
  852d, 853d, 854th and 855th Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy), 491st
Bombardment Group (Heavy), move from North Pickenham to Metfield, England
with B-24s; first mission is 2 Jun.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 240 B-26s and 69 A-20s bomb V-weapon
sites in the coastal area of France and gun positions at Le Treport,
Vareneville-sur-Mer, Fontenay-sur-Mer/Crisbec, Ault, Fecamp, Houlgate and
Saint-Pierre-du-Mont, France. About 150 P-47s dive-bomb airfields in France
and Belgium. Around 175 B-26s are forced to abort missions because of bad
weather.
  HQ 441st Troop Carrier Group and 99th, 100th and 301st Troop Carrier
Squadrons move from Langar to Merryfield, England with C-47s.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): In Italy, around 150 B-24s bomb
an aircraft factory at Turin, marshalling yard and bridge at Parma,
marshalling yard at Ferrara and several targets of opportunity; 300+ B-24s
and B-17s are forced to abort missions due to bad weather; 100+ fighters
escort the bomber missions into N Italy.
  782d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 465th Bombardment Group (Heavy), arrives
at Pantanella Airfield, Italy from the US with B-24s; first mission is 5 May.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, attacks against lines of
communications N of Rome continue; A-20s hit storage areas while medium
bombers attack Pesaro marshalling yard, dumps at Manoppello and bridges and
approaches at Incisa in Valdarno, Arezzo, Asciano, Magra, Ficulle and
Orvieto; viaducts at Incisa and Calafuria are attacked with poor results;
P-40s and P-47s hit roads, gun positions, railroads, ammunition dump and
trucks N of Rome, near Ficulle, Orte and Orvieto; and P-47s also damage
destroyers off Elba Island.
  HQ 47th Bombardment Group (Light) and 84th, 85th, 86th and 97th Bombardment
Squadrons (Light) move from Capodichino to Vesuvius Airfield, Italy with
A-20s.
  417th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force (attached to RAF No. 337
Wing), moves from La Senia, Algeria to Borgo, Corsica with Beaufighters; the
ground echelon has been at Borgo since Feb 44.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): Kwajalein Atoll-based B-24s,
during the night of 24/25 Apr, staging through Eniwetok Atoll, strike Guam
Island, Marianas Islands and Truk Atoll, and during the day hit Wotje and
Maloelap Atolls. This is the first AAF mission against Guam. B-25s from
Engebi Island, Eniwetok Atoll bomb Ponape Island, and Makin Island-based
B-25s hit Jaluit and Wotje Atolls.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): Just before dawn 15 B-24s
hit Dublon, Moen, Fefan, Uman and Falo Islands, Truk Atoll. 23 B-25s bomb the
airstrip and revetments at Tobera, New Britain Island. 12 P-39s leave
stockpiles aflame at Baitsi, Bougainville Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 12 B-25s bomb
troop areas in the Hollandia vicinity, attacking villages S of Tanahmerah and
huts and buildings along the road from Marneda to Banggerang; other aircraft
carry out similar strikes against Karkar Island and along Hansa Bay.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 06:56:39 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: B-25 attack on Japan

Hello, Chris!

Paramushira is a naval base located in the northernmost Kurile Island
chain. It is thus in the northernmost part of Japan. Paramushiro was
a very large Japanese naval base, and the headquarters of their
Pacific Fleet.

Hope this helps.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 07:03:21 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: FURTHER ON TV PROGRAMS

Hello, Pat!

> The Disney Channel has a program called "George Stevens: From D-Day To
> Berlin", which includes WWII footage shot by George Stevens, and is produced
> by his son, George Stevens Jr. The first airing of this program will be May
> 31, 9:00 ET.

    I am certain that this will contain color footage of the D-Day
landings. Stevens headed the only photographic unit to use color
film on an experimental basis within the U.S. Army. His unit was
given as much color film as they wanted to shoot anything of interest.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 14:24:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Two questions...

Dennis asked two questions:

> Question #1:
> Concerning the recent thread on Molotov cocktails being thrown
>
As other mentioned, threw it on the motorcomparment of a tank and
see what happend, a new panic crew should bail out because they are
in panic, an old well disciplined veteran crew should bail out because
they do't like to be burned alive.

> Question #2:
> Jack McKillop's series frequently mentions leaflet drops at night
> over occupied territories.  What did the leaflets say?  Did they
>
>From April 24 1944
  Mission 316: 5 of 5 B-17s drop 1.12 million leaflets on Amsterdam,
Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht, The Netherlands and Lille and Reims, France
at 2322-2344 hours without loss.

Living in Utrecht, I learned from Jack that we got them this date.
They were wonderfull and dangerous, If they found them on you, you
had a very bad luck, wonderfull, it tells just by coming that we had
still friends. There were a lot of different papers, one of them  was
called "De Vliegende Hollander" (the flying dutchman), they came
(in my memorie) weekly and told us what happend in the world.
This one was in Dutch with the  Red White and Blue of the
Dutch flag on the frontside.
Remember papers were under German censor and radio was forbidden.
We had had a razzia on radios so most people were without.
We (my parents) read the leaflets and passed them to other people
This had two reasons, the time we had them was very short, so the
time to be caught with them was small and a lot of people could
read a few leaflets. 1 million looks a lot, but diversed over a lot
of towns and German razzias on them and a lot of unreacheble places
(in the water) makes that only a relative few were circulating.
The last one, delivered on liberation day I still have.

Peter de Lange

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 13:25:26 GMT
From:    Johannes van Vuren <[email-masked]>
Subject: Japanese Underground?

It is well known that in Germany there was an underground movement trying to
depose Hitler. Was there any underground to speak of in Japan? It would be
incredible to conclude that all Japanese supported their warlords
absolutely. So, who were the Japanese dissidents and what happened to them?

Johannes van Vuren,
Canterbury, England.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 13:58:22 GMT
From:    Johannes van Vuren <[email-masked]>
Subject: Dutch underground newspapers

What were the successes, and alas failures, of the underground press in
Holland? There was a paper called "Vrije Nederland" (Free Netherlands) that
was, I was told, published during the war. How did this paper originate and
what became of it after the war. Any others?

Johannes van Vuren,
Canterbury, England.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 13:56:36 +0100
From:    "H.G. Henry" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NOST: 50 years ago this week

On Mon, 25 Apr 1994, Johannes van Vuren wrote:

> Please let us know where the "Churchill and the Generals" video is obtainable
> from. Especially in England. I saw it years ago on TV and remember how
> realistic and interesting it was. There was a scene where Churchill and
> Montgomery had lunch together. Ch asked "General a drink?" and Monty replied
> "Sir I dont smoke and I dont drink and Im one hundred percent fit". Ch looked
> him up and down and said "You know general, I smoke and I drink and Im two
> hundred percent fit". He was.
>
> Many thanks,
> Johannes van Vuren.
>
Dear Mr van Vuren

I wonder where you get your information concerning Churchill's health?
I would seriously debate whether Churchill was 'fit' and worked at his peak
performance. Besides being grossly over weight, he smoked and drank
excessively. The latter being the reasion why he had to take constant
naps-this had nothing to do with genius- just too much brandy. Have you
read the official biographys of Churchill by Martin Gilbert?

Sincerely
Hugh Henry
St John's College
University of Cambridge

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 09:40:27 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: NOST: 50 years ago this week

I should be in as bad a shape as Churchill!

Let us not forget his longevity, quickness of mind, and contribution to
humanity.

Would we all be of such calibre!
                                                                Steve

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 09:35:25 EDT
From:    John Edwards <[email-masked]>
Subject: World War II Television Program

If any of you colleagues taped the 4 hour program World War II:  When Lions
Roared which aired last week on NBC and are willing to send me a copy I would
be extremely grateful.  I need this program for a project I am working on, and
the tape I was using turned out to be defective.

Please contact me directly through e-mail and not through this list.
Thank you.
                          Dr. John C. Edwards
                          Special Projects Archivist
                          University of Georgia

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 15:27:09 GMT
From:    Johannes van Vuren <[email-masked]>
Subject: Churchill's health

  Hugh Henry wrote:
  I wonder where you get your information concerning Churchill's health?
  I would seriously debate whether Churchill was 'fit' and worked at his peak
  performance. Besides being grossly over weight, he smoked and drank
  excessively. The latter being the reasion why he had to take constant
  naps-this had nothing to do with genius- just too much brandy. Have you
  read the official biographys of Churchill by Martin Gilbert?

Dont take what Ch said too seriously. Obviously in the film the episode was
put in as a joke. Artistic licence if you like.

Johannes van Vuren
Canterbury, England.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 09:34:28 -0500
From:    "Sue Hattabaugh, Valparaiso University" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Military and Aircraft show

To Tim Scherrer and those others who inquired:  Am having trouble with
my E-mail today.  Please forgive posting to list.
The military museum sponsoring the display is in Chesterton, Indiana
and is not run by Fred Ropkey.  Alva Polecock (sp?) is the curator.
Sorry, Tim. I was looking forward to seeing your Hetzer!
Sue
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 10:19:19 CDT
From:    Robert Hohlt <[email-masked]>
Subject: more questions

Hello again to you all.

Many thanks to all of you who have responded to my previous
questions.

I have more questions.

1. Enterprise Association (CV-6).

   Can anyone tell me if there is still (today) an (U.S.S.)
   Enterprise Association (CV-6)?  Can anyone tell me who to
   contact about information on this association?   What a shame
   (disaster) letting the most decorated ship in US naval
   history be scrapped.

2. Anyone who flew in the ETO with the Tuskegee airmen
   as escort.

   I am interested in finding out from any veterans who flew
   missions with the Tuskegee airmen as escort. How were they?
   The (Tuskegee airmen) combat record seems to be pretty
   spectacular.  Did they engage many/veteran Luftwaffe groups?
   Were any shot down and taken prisoner, and if so how was their
   treatment by the Germans?

Thanks again
for any information.

Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 11:33:23 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: Patton's phantom army

Yeah, but the fact that Patton was NOT at normandy was a very big factor
in some of the German high command, and Hitler, thinking that a second
invasion was coming.  They probably also viewed the current commander of
the second force as a double blind, in that Patton was actually secretly
in charge, and would assume command when the landing started.
John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 17:24:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Dutch underground newspapers

I am not so familiair with the press in wartime.
There were two different kind of press, one printed underground
and delivered by night, one above ground and delivered by Air Force.
Famous names are "de Telegraaf" still a big morning paper,
"Het Parool","de Waarheid" (also printed in Moskou as the Prawda)
"Vrij Nederland" and "De Vliegende Hollander"
Someone here had his own paper, was caught and now there is
a street named after him.
Peter de Lange

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 11:47:26 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: weap:WWII nuclear capability

Also, I posted a couple of weeks ago, that no nuclear warhead was
designed until the late 50s, 1955 I believe, that could fit in a German
V-1 rocket, (1 ton payload, yield of Hiroshima), that old message had
the designation and the source.
John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 17:43:30 CET
From:    "LTC Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: VET:Wall of Liberty

The following item came from the USAF, Europe public affairs office
and I thought it might be of interest to list members:

Wall of Liberty honors World War II vets

Ramstein AB, Germany (UNS)  -- Groundbreaking ceremonies for the Wall
of Liberty, the first monument in the world to honor all Americans,
living and deceased -- who served in World War II's European theater
will take place on June 6 in Normandy, France.

The monument, previously reported as the Wall fo Freedom, will be
dedicated inCaen, France, near the D-Day invasion beaches where
American armed forces landed 50 years ago.

People who had a realtive who served in Europe during World War II
can help make sure his or her name is inscribed on the wall of
liberty by writing to:

      The Battle of Normandy Foundation
      Department P
      1730 Rhode Island Avenue, NW
      Washington, DC  20036

Include the following information:  Rank, Full Name, Unit, and Hometown
of veteran.  The foundation has requested a 40 dollar donation to defray
the cost of each name inscribed -- this donation is not mandatory.  If
someone cannot afford the donation, please say so in the letter.

In addition to the permanent inscription,k those who particpate will
receive an official certificated of recognition, suitable for framing,
which certifies the veteran has been added to the wall.

                   Doug Donnell

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 12:01:31 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Lindbergh

Yes, I finally found my source!

Charles A. Lindbergh flew the P-38 (the best all-around fighter :)
in the 35th FS on 20 June 1944 then he flew with the 475th FG.
On 28 July 1944 he shot down a Ki-51 Sonia, and I was wrong, they
didn't list any other kills for him.

'The Great Book of World War II Airplanes'
Bonanza Books
mulitple authors, Jeffrey L. Ethel wrote on the P-38
other planes covered:P-51,B-17,F6F,F4U,Spit,Mosq,Lanc,Bf109,Fw190,Ju87,Zero
Excellant book, many stories and illustrations/photos, includes almost
all variants of aircraft, incl. P-38 as torpedoe carrier (?) not used
operationally, only planned (late night with beers maybe... :)

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 11:17:55 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Exercise Tiger

Let's not see a repeat of this one...

When:  0200 28Apr44
Where: About 25 miles off shore from Slapton Sands, England
Who:   About 30,000 of the 4th Inf Div
       749 dead
       89 wounded
What:  Over 3000 Allied ships including 8 LSTs of Convoy T-4
       9 German Torpedo boats out of France
How:   Exercise Tiger was a practice landing for Normandy. The
       German Torpedo boats happened on 5 luggish landing ships
       and began scoping out their targets.
       Two LST's were sunk and a third damaged within 30 minutes.
       LST 531 was hit and went under in 7 minutes.
       LST 289 was also torpedoed.
       The convoy was guarded by only one British ship.
       A typographic error in the op order had the wrong radio freq
       so they didn't receive a warning that was transmitted.
       Many GIs strapped their life jackets around their
       waist, and were later found floating feet up in 42 degree water.
       The casualty lists were released 5Aug44, merged with D-Day
       lists. Rear Admiral Don P. Moon killed himself that day
       while on his new assignment in the Mediterranean. The Pentagon
       finally declassified the affair in 1974. In 1987 a granite
       memorial was placed near a recovered Sherman at Slapton
       Sands. Two years later VFW Post 1531 of New Bedford, Mass.
       dedicated a monument there including a cobblestone for each
       casualty. The event has been recognized as the wars most deadly
       training exercise.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.5             Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881                            Bitnet:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: [email-masked]

Murphy's Uncertainty Principle:    You can know something has gone wrong only
                                    when you make an odd number of mistakes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 10:16:08 -0700
From:    Jim Benn <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Tusgegee Airmen

I recently saw a display at the Air & Space museum in DC about the Black
fighter squadrons serving inItaly in WWII.  From info provided there, the
Tuskgegee (sp?) pilots were held in high regard by the bomber crews they
escorted.  There was a letter from one black pilot who told how he was
repeatedly congratulated
by white bomber pilots on his was to his posting with his squadron, and
he had yet to fly a single mission.
I too would be interested in comments from any bomber crew vets; what was
the feeling about the black pilots; did their performance change any
racist, or simply ignorant, views among other pilots and crew?

Jim Benn.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 12:18:23 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Military and Aircraft show

When I say MY--I mean 11th Panzer's Hetzer--not my personal Hetzer--it
is owned by a man in St. Louis named Terry Johns.  Terry is a Civil War
reenactor, and has several Ford Bren Carrier's for sale if anyone is
interested, with prices from several thousand up to $20K.

The Hetzer is presently being stored in a museum in Indianapolis.  It
used to be kept at Weldon Springs Army Reserve Training Center, MO.
Weldon was closed due to radioactivity and dioxin about 88, so then it
was moved to the military garrison area of Jefferson Barracks, MO.  It
was still being parked without overhead cover, so when the possibility
of moving to Indy came along, Terry jumped at the possibility.  We have
used Geli at our three national battles there, and had a terriffic time
blowing make believe holes in Stuarts.

Our Hetzer crew is made up of four members--Terry Johns and Marty Cliff
Sr. swap the gunner/driver position, Harry Cliff is the loader, and
Marty Cliff Jr is the Tank Commander.  They do most routine commands in
German, although for safety purposes they use a lot of English.  They
have been crewing the Hetzer together for about 15 or so years, so they'
ve got the routine of the vehicle down much like a real crew--when Harry
exits the vehicle he slides down the front of the hull like he is
skiing.

TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 13:46:33 -0400
From:    Emery Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: ADMIN - Digest request

Is it possible that I can be sent a digest for APR24, APR23, and
APR22?  Somebody trashed my mail system.

        --Thanks
                H.E. Ford

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 12:52:02 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: more questions

> 2. Anyone who flew in the ETO with the Tuskegee airmen
>    as escort.
>
>    I am interested in finding out from any veterans who flew
>    missions with the Tuskegee airmen as escort. How were they?
>    The (Tuskegee airmen) combat record seems to be pretty
>    spectacular.  Did they engage many/veteran Luftwaffe groups?
>    Were any shot down and taken prisoner, and if so how was their
>    treatment by the Germans?

Do you want to find vets who were protected by the 332nd, or would you
be interested in contacting the Tuskegee Airmen's Society directly and
get their input?  They'd certainly have info on treatment of POWs.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 12:11:32 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Exercise Tiger

What were the circumstances of RAdm Moon's suicide?

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 14:39:44 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Japanese Underground?

Hello, Johannes!

> It is well known that in Germany there was an underground movement trying to
> depose Hitler. Was there any underground to speak of in Japan? It would be
> incredible to conclude that all Japanese supported their warlords
> absolutely. So, who were the Japanese dissidents and what happened to them?

    Perhaps so in Europe and to the Western mind. However, I think
there was no underground opposition group to the policy makers in
Japan. I can't vouch for this, but given the nature of the Oriental
mind, I would think that the Japanese Gov't could completely rely on
the support of the Japanese people. After all, they were taught to
obey authority, particularly that of the state.

    That may also be the reason why the Japanese did not protest the
trial and execution of their war leaders by the Allies at the end of
the war. The same could not be said of those tried and executed in
Europe.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 14:52:11 CST
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Lindbergh

My mind may be playing tricks on me, but wasn't Lindbergh involved with
some anti-war activity before the US entered the war?  It may have been
the "America First Committee" or something like that.  Maybe we
discussed it before, bt if he was involved in activities like that isn't
it ironic he got involved and shot down some aircraft later.  What
status did he fly under?  Was he military or civilian?  How old was he
at the time? TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 15:05:55 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: FURTHER ON TV PROGRAMS

"Normandy: The Great Crusade" will air on May 30th and June 5th at 9:00
P.M. Eastern time.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 13:20:47 PST
From:    "Jones, Scott T." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Nazi Bombers

     I was watching a show called "Wings of the Luftwaffe" a few weeks ago
     on the Discovery channel (I think). It mentioned something about a
     Heinkel He-215(?) which was designed to be a long range bomber. They
     claimed this bomber made it to within 12 miles(!?) of New York City
     before it had to turn back. Does anybody have information about this?
     Were any Nazi bombs ever dropped on the North American continent (not
     including naval weapon)? If so, where, when, how???

Scott T. Jones                         "Living on Earth may be expensive,
Dahlgren, VA 22448  USA                 but it includes a free trip around
Internet: [email-masked]            the Sun."

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 16:27:03 CDT
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: More CA pix

Well, a few people have told me that the pics from the CA Doolittle
Reunion were OK, so I've put a few more online available by ftp.

itasca.stat.umn.edu (128.101.51.9) ~ftp/wwii-l/gifs/Reunion94/*

Wish I were there... :-)

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
[email-masked]                                       Confederate Air Force

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 19:42:24 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Exercise Tiger

Sidney Allinson writes,...
>
>What were the circumstances of RAdm Moon's suicide?

The article I quoted from was in the _Providence Journal_ and did not
elaborate. It did mention though that the suicide was assumed to be
a reaction to admonitions from above.

'Sorry there wasn't more. -Al

The Providence Journal is out of Providence, R.I. and is published daily.
New Bedford is on the other side of Narragansett Bay, and apparently also
the home of comrades of casualties since the NB VFW chose that incident to
memorialize.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.5             Voice:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881                            Bitnet:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: [email-masked]

Murphy's Uncertainty Principle:    You can know something has gone wrong only
                                    when you make an odd number of mistakes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 19:36:01 -0500
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Tusgegee Airmen

In message World War II Discussion List writes:
> I recently saw a display at the Air & Space museum in DC about the Black
> fighter squadrons serving inItaly in WWII.  From info provided there, the
> Tuskgegee (sp?) pilots were held in high regard by the bomber crews they
> escorted.  There was a letter from one black pilot who told how he was
> repeatedly congratulated
> by white bomber pilots on his was to his posting with his squadron, and
> he had yet to fly a single mission.
> I too would be interested in comments from any bomber crew vets; what was
> the feeling about the black pilots; did their performance change any
> racist, or simply ignorant, views among other pilots and crew?

Our B-25, Miss Mitchell, even though in the 12th Air Force (the Tuskegee
Airmen was in the 15th) was often escorted by the "Red Tailed Devils."

The 332nd was a very unique and interesting group -- several books exist
on their exploits ... (a few we have in our PX :-).  Highly decorated and
well deserving of every recognition they received (and several they didn't).

We're currently restoring a P-51C (The Warbird Directory lists it as one of
two left in existence, though I know there are three...) in the colors of
the 332nd FG.  The Tuskegee Airmen have officially recognized and endorsed
our project (now all we have to do is raise $265,000. :-)

The organization is still very active and gives out several scholarships
(irregardless of sex, color, race or creed) each year for people with an
interest in aviation.

Although we've got a working ad that makes the comment that they "defeated
racism as well as the Luftwaffe," what I've found interesting about the group
after the war is that there is no bitterness.  They aren't happy about the
way they were treated, but the overall attitude seemed to be to not dwell
on it and just beat it.

Worked for them in combat, too.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                             [email-masked]
University of Minnesota, School of Statistics
         "I'm my father?  I'm my mother?  I'm chipped beef on toast?"

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 22:37:08 EDT
From:    "Jonah Triebwasser, Adjunct Instructor,
         Marist Coll" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: NOST: 50 years ago this week

>Please let us know where the "Churchill and the Generals" video is obtainable
>from. Especially in England. I saw it years ago on TV and remember how
>realistic and interesting it was. There was a scene where Churchill and
>Montgomery had lunch together. Ch asked "General a drink?" and Monty replied
>"Sir I dont smoke and I dont drink and Im one hundred percent fit". Ch looked
>him up and down and said "You know general, I smoke and I drink and Im two
>hundred percent fit". He was.
>
>Many thanks,
>Johannes van Vuren.
The address on the side of the video box is:Starmaker Entertainment, Inc
Eatontown, New Jersey 07724. I don't know if they have a version which
will play on British TV sets which are not compatible (so I'm told)
with us and Canadian sets. PS: Monty was played by Ian Richardson
who was triumphant in the recent BBC series shown here: "House of Cards"
where he played a decidedly non-Churchillian British Prime Minister!
Regards-

Jonah Triebwasser
Adjunct Instructor
Marist College
Dyson Building (Adult Education)
Poughkeepsie, New York12601
Tel: (914) 575-3331, ext. 7037
E-Mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 22:44:11 EDT
From:    "Jonah Triebwasser, Adjunct Instructor,
         Marist Coll" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: NOST: 50 years ago this week

>Dear Mr van Vuren
>
>I wonder where you get your information concerning Churchill's health?
>I would seriously debate whether Churchill was 'fit' and worked at his peak
>performance. Besides being grossly over weight, he smoked and drank
>excessively. The latter being the reasion why he had to take constant
>naps-this had nothing to do with genius- just too much brandy. Have you
>read the official biographys of Churchill by Martin Gilbert?
>
>Sincerely
>Hugh Henry
>St John's College
>University of Cambridge
You might also want to read the diaries of Lord Moran, Churchill's
physician -

Jonah Triebwasser
Adjunct Instructor
Marist College
Dyson Building (Adult Education)
Poughkeepsie, New York12601
Tel: (914) 575-3331, ext. 7037
E-Mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Apr 1994 23:16:10 EDT
From:    "Jonah Triebwasser, Adjunct Instructor,
         Marist Coll" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re[2]: MEDIA: FURTHER ON TV PROGRAMS

>"Normandy: The Great Crusade" will air on May 30th and June 5th at 9:00
>P.M. Eastern time.
...over what network, please? Thanks!

Jonah Triebwasser
Adjunct Instructor
Marist College
Dyson Building (Adult Education)
Poughkeepsie, New York12601
Tel: (914) 575-3331, ext. 7037
E-Mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 24 Apr 1994 to 25 Apr 1994
*************************************************