Subject: WWII-L Digest - 14 May 1994 to 15 May 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 00:00:22 -0400

There are 12 messages totalling 531 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. ARC: GPO Military History Bibliography (2)
  2. NOS: 50 years ago this week
  3. MEDIA: EXCERPTS FROM LETTERS HOME
  4. MEDIA: LETTER TO PARENTS ABOUT D-DAY
  5. MEDIA: RECOLLECTIONS OF D-DAY
  6. MEDIA: NIGHTLINE PROGRAM ON EXERCISE TIGER? (2)
  7. Massacre of Italians near Rome (2)
  8. ADMIN: Reiteration of the list's charter
  9. reply

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Date:    Sat, 14 May 1994 23:30:39 EST
From:    Larry & Kim Jewell <[email-masked]>
Subject: ARC: GPO Military History Bibliography

Sidney, there is a digitized copy of the Subject Bibliography for Military
History from the GPO available at byrd in the

/pub/history/military/GPO_bibs/

directory. They have quite a bit of the books you asked about listed there,
including the U.S. Army Green Book series.

Also, you might want to keep an eye on the

/pub/history/military/wwii/command.decisions

directory. I've been getting the chapters for storage and will have over
half of them stored during the next few days.

We'll also be getting more of the special.studies and some new files for
a directory I'm inclined to call "campaigns" for lack of a better term.

And, yes, my life is easier (and my GPA shows it) thanks to Joe. You all
be nice to him or I'll call in tac-air.

Larry J

[email-masked]; Co-Moderator: BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU (Historical docs)
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly
unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."
Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 15 May 1994 14:46:20 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: NOS: 50 years ago this week

  Oslo, May 15, 1994

  I want to thank Jonah Triebwasser for posting these messages.  They provide a
good context for events in the spotlight of the media.

  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 15 May 1994 14:54:37 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: EXCERPTS FROM LETTERS HOME

  Oslo, May 15.  Since there has been a certain amount of media interest in the
letter I sent to my parents about D-Day shortly after the fall of Cherbourg, I
thought the users of this list might be interested in seeing it.  I am,
therefore, posting it as a message.  I am also posting as yet another message my
recollections of D-Day.
  You will note that these are copyrighted.  If anyone would like to use all
or part of these, I would appreciate your sending me a private message.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 15 May 1994 14:56:20 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: LETTER TO PARENTS ABOUT D-DAY

          EXCERPT FROM CHAPTER 2, LETTERS HOME: A WAR MEMOIR,
          by John C. Ausland  (This letter was written shortly after
          the fall of Cherbourg.)

          FINALLY, A LONG LETTER ABUT D-DAY

          Dear Folks, June 28, 1944, Somewhere in France

          Each night we said, "The Luftwaffe is bound
          to strike tonight." But it didn't.

          The last night our sleep was far from satisfactory. On
          a rough sea, our LCT tossed about like a bottle. Four of us
          slept in a space large enough to hold two. We awoke shortly
          after midnight to hear the C-47s, which had carried the
          paratroopers, come over.  It was a beautiful sound - there must
          have been a thousand of them.

          After an inadequate breakfast of coffee and pancakes,
          we loaded on an LCM that came alongside the LCT. We then
          moved over to pick up some personnel from another craft. With
          the exception of an occasional splash caused by a coastal
          battery, there was little difference between this and the dozen
          practice landings I've been on.

          H-hour passed us while we were still far from shore. We
          couldn't even hear the terrific naval and air bombardment we
          knew was going on. But we knew that right then a death
          struggle was being waged on the beach, one which had to be
          won by the infantry, since they were the only ones ashore.

          Meanwhile, we cursed for the --th time the spray that
          came over the front end of the craft and soaked us to the skin.
          Capt.  Livingston and I pulled a blanket lying in the boat over
          us to ward the worst of the water off. How unimportant being
          wet was soon to become!

          At last our craft touched the beach. The ramp went down.
          Automatically we went off the side of the ramp and into the
          water up to our knees. We walked ashore (one doesn't run in
          surf). Aside from rifles and machine guns firing inland, all was
          quiet.

          There were surprisingly few dead on the beach. Just back
          of the sand dunes several hundred German prisoners huddled.
          Already hundreds of people were organizing the beach for the
          largest amphibious undertaking in history.

          We went about our work of getting the battalion in and into
          position, a task not without heartache.

          I saw my first German dead. He must have been killed while
          running. Even in death his body seemed to be trying to surge
          forward.  His helmet and uniform was all in place. He had been
          dead several hours. I could tell by the color of his skin. He was
          wearing glasses, still not broken.

          I remember self-consciously saying to someone, "Well,
          he won't bother anyone again." Now I wonder whether he ever
          wanted to bother anyone.

          Moving up the road, I came across an American soldier lying
          beside the road. He was wounded in one arm. With the other
          he was trying to hold a match box and strike a match. I leaned
          over and struck the match, lit the cigarette. He was hit pretty
          bad. Neither of us spoke a word. What could one say. I moved
          on.

          The rest of the day was a whirl of movement and activity.
          At last we got our unit off the bomb torn beach and away from
          constant shelling.

          For the rest of the day there are only momentary recollections:
          Tough paratroopers wandering about, killing German snipers.
          The medics who dropped, unarmed, with the paratroopers,
          shortly after midnight.  The sniper (we later learned he was 75
          yards from our command post) who shot at us all day without
          hitting anyone. He was killed by a paratrooper who happened
          across him. The French people in a small village ignoring the
          bodies about them and waving to us as we went by. This same
          village was held for twelve hours by four paratroopers.  That
          first night when all the men were nervous (trigger-happy) and
          shot at anything that moved. The dumbfounded glider pilot who
          had 200 Germans surrender to him, who asked me what in the
          h--- he should do with them. The thrill of watching the
          multitude of gliders come in and the multicolored supply
          parachute drops. And the dull thud of your heart when you
          watched the wounded and dead carried out of those gliders that
          crashed.

          These and a hundred other events made up D-day for me.

          Love, John

          Copyright: John C. Ausland, 1993

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 15 May 1994 14:57:24 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: RECOLLECTIONS OF D-DAY

          EXCERPT FROM CHAPTER 2 OF LETTERS HOME: A WAR MEMOIR,
          by John C. Ausland

          RECOLLECTIONS: D-DAY NEARLY HALF A CENTURY LATER

          Although I was fairly candid in my letters about the
          landing, there were events which I failed to record. I am not
          sure why this was, since they are as clear in my mind as if
          they happened yesterday.

          As the landing craft took us into the beach, each of us was
          alone with his thoughts. We had no idea what we would run into
          when we reached the shore. Having spent many hours running
          in England, I planned to cover the distance between the water
          and the sand dunes as quickly as possible. As it turned out,
          we landed at high tide, and there was little beach to cross.

          Tommy broke into my thoughts with a nudge and motioned
          with his head toward the rear of the landing craft. There,
          sitting on a chair exposed to enemy fire was Col. Steiner, who
          announced that he wanted to have a full view of this historic
          event. The rest of us were happy to miss this and have the
          little protection provided by the thin metal of the landing craft.

          When we reached the shore, my job was to locate the positions
          for our three batteries, which had been selected from a map. I
          found it impossible, however, to orient myself. None of the
          landmarks I was looking for were there.

          An infantry officer soon informed me that the navy had landed
          us at the wrong place. After all that planning and preparation,
          the operation was turned over to a young naval officer, who
          landed the first wave to the south of where he was supposed
          to. As it turned out, this was fortunate, since we landed at a
          place which the Germans had not fortified very well. Luckily,
          General Roosevelt landed with the first wave and made the
          decision to go ahead, rather than confuse matters by trying to
          move the beach. He told us he had learned in North Africa and
          Sicily that such things can happened. Besides he considered
          the first wave the safest one to be on.

          His decision, however, left me with a problem. The Germans
          had inundated a large area in back of the beach, and the dry
          area was too narrow to hold all three of our batteries. When I
          went back to the beach to inform Tommy of this, he said,
          "John, it does not matter. B Battery hit a mine on the way in,
          and we now have only two batteries."

          I was so preoccupied with my tasks that the full implication of
          the destruction by a mine of B Battery, commanded by Capt.
          Vernon P. Burns, did not really sink in. A clearer picture only
          emerged recently when I talked about it with Ed Cissel, who
          was on another landing craft near the one carrying B Battery.
          After the explosion, the landing craft sank immediately, leaving
          dead and wounded in the water. As instructed, the other
          landing craft continued toward the shore, a painful experience
          for those who witnessed the explosion.

          An A Battery officer, 2nd Lt. L.C. Blanchard Jr., was killed not
          long after going ashore. A shy, likable person, he landed with
          the first wave as a forward observer and was torn apart by a
          shell.

          After the two remaining batteries were in place, Tommy
          suggested that he and I go forward and find the infantry. Until
          we knew where they were, we could do no firing. By that time,
          the clouds had cleared off, and the day became warm and
          sunny. As we walked across a field, a soldier ahead of us
          shouted, "Hey, you guys, you are in the middle of a mine field."
          We paused, and Tommy said, "Well, what do we do now?"

          We did not do what we should have, which was to have
          someone use a mine detector to sweep a path out to us. Instead,
          I suggested we separate, so if one of us hit a mine it would
          not kill both of us. It is impossible to describe one's
          feelings when walking through a mine field, but we were very
          happy to reach the other side.

          I subsequently learned that there were no mines in that field.
          The German troops had hung an Achtung Minen sign on a fence
          to impress a general who was inspecting the defenses in the
          area.

          In my letter home, I mentioned the gliders which landed later
          in the day. I failed, however, to convey adequately the horror
          with which I listened to the screams of pain when gliders
          crashed. Surrounded by earthen hedgerows, the fields on which
          the gliders had to land were very small. The pilots may also
          have been unnerved by German anti-aircraft fire. In any event,
          a number of the gliders hit hedgerows.  As I think about this,
          I can still hear the cries for help. The most appalling thing was
          that we had work to do and had to leave the first aid to the
          medics, who had their hands full and could not take care of all
          the wounded at once.

          The day gradually drew to a close, and I found myself in the
          dark in a farmyard near les Forges, just south of Ste. Mere
          Eglise.  Col. Van Fleet had located his headquarters there.
          When I left the bright light which illuminated the headquarters
          tent, I could not see but heard German voices all about me.
          Terrified at first, I tried to hide in the shadow of a barn. Then,
          as mentioned in a letter home, I learned that these were
          prisoners who had surrendered to a surprised glider pilot.

          Walking out to the road which led north toward Cherbourg, I
          watched colored tracer bullets arching into the sky. A soldier
          told me his unit was preparing for a possible German
          counterattack from the south.  By that time, I was too
          exhausted to care and lay down in a ditch beside the road and
          went to sleep, fortunately unaware of what the coming days
          would bring.

          Copyright: John C. Ausland, 1993

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 15 May 1994 16:20:38 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: NIGHTLINE PROGRAM ON EXERCISE TIGER?

  Oslo, May 15.

  Did anyone see the Nightline program on Exercise Tiger?  I wonder if it added
anything to what we know.  Also if there is any way to get a tape of it from the
network.

  The following is an excerpt (which discusses Tiger) from my April 29 article
in the International Herald Tribune about our preparation for the invasion in
England.  I forgot to mention that there was a problem of radio frequencies,
which meant that the LSTs that were hit evidently did not get warnings.

BEGIN TEXT
     Our final practice landing, Exercise Tiger, took place on April 28 on
Slapton Sands, a beach similar to Utah Beach, the one on which we would
be landing.
     During the night, German torpedo boats commanded by Lt. Guenther
Rabe, based in Cherbourg, accidentally ran across a group of LSTs (landing
ship tanks).  These were large vessels which carried hundreds of men and
a number of vehicles loaded with fuel and ammunition.
     Because of a collision in Plymouth harbor and communications
confusion, the British destroyer Scimitar was not with them.  The net result
was two LSTs sunk and another badly damaged.  Accounts vary as to how
many men were lost, but it was about 750.  Most of these were from the
1st Amphibious Brigade Group.
     While it is not correct as has been alleged that US military authorities
tried to hide what happened that night, neither did they seek to advertise
it, even after the war.
     The final casualty was Rear Admiral Don P. Moon, who was in charge
of the naval part of Exercise Tiger.  A few months after he was reprimanded
and given a lesser command, he killed himself.
     At the time of the event, the high command was troubled because a
few of the officers on board the LSTs had been briefed regarding the landing
site.  An intense hunt ensued, both on land and in the sea.  German
procedures, however, did not provide for picking up survivors.
END TEXT
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 15 May 1994 02:21:58 -0700
From:    Terry Yeung <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: NIGHTLINE PROGRAM ON EXERCISE TIGER?

>
>   Did anyone see the Nightline program on Exercise Tiger?  I wonder if it added
> anything to what we know.  Also if there is any way to get a tape of it from the
> network.

        I watched it and it didn't give that much more detail.  Though they
did imply very strongly that there was a cover-up which many of the people
on this mailing list don't agree with.  There was one interesting note at
the end though.  It mentioned some British night fighters engaging the
E-boats as they were leaving the scene and one was supposedly attacked and
damaged.  Nightline reported that this pilot was never credited with this
attack and there not record of it.  The pilot wrote this in a letter before
he died(?).  This seemed a bit odd to me.  If the pilot did attack and hit
one of the boats, wouldn't there be some sort of German after action report?
Overall, it didn't add much to the knowledge of what happened though they
did interview a few survivors that made it more interesting to hear what
they went through.

--
Terry Yeung                             \ Internet: [email-masked]
Anime Expo '94 Registration Supervisor   \ Expo: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 14 May 1994 21:36:29 EST
From:    Scott Peters <[email-masked]>
Subject: Massacre of Italians near Rome

Speaking of the massacre of 335 Italian civilians in the Ardeatine Caves
in Rome, wasn't there a movie based on that from the perspective on an
SS officer sometime back in the early/mid 80's?  I saw something on HBO
some years back that I have to assume represented that event.

Any clues out there?

Thank in advance for your input.

Scott Peters
W. Va. Wesleyan College

P.S.  Hey Terry, I'm back on the list!

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 15 May 1994 16:51:19 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Massacre of Italians near Rome

On Sat, 14 May 1994, Scott Peters wrote:

> Speaking of the massacre of 335 Italian civilians in the Ardeatine Caves
> in Rome, wasn't there a movie based on that from the perspective on an
> SS officer sometime back in the early/mid 80's?  I saw something on HBO
> some years back that I have to assume represented that event.
>
> Any clues out there?

I think this movie stared Marcello Mastriano(sp), playing a priest, and,
perhaps, Richard Burton, playing the SS officer.  I don't recall the name
of the movie.  I am sure somebody else will.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 15 May 1994 12:41:38 -0400
From:    Joe Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: ADMIN: Reiteration of the list's charter

This list is called WWII-L because its intent is to discuss all aspects
of the conflict of the Second World War.  People may debate its start
date but most would agree that the conflict ended in 1945.  There were
far-reaching consequences of this war, but discussion of these should be
limited.

This list is *NOT* to discuss George Bush's foreign policy toward Panama
or Iraq or even the US's role in Vietnam.  It certainly is not a forum
for members to grind their axes or promote their own political ideologies
or agendas.  Take such diatribes to one of the Usenet newsgroups where
such static may be welcomed (soc.history is a good dumping ground).  Please
do not start or continue such discussions on this list.  Failure to heed
this policy will result in the offender's removal from this list.

I will shortly be sending out the full introduction text for this list
to remind everyone of the various policies governing this list.  Thanks.
--
Joe Barone, WWII-L owner
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 15 May 1994 11:47:02 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ARC: GPO Military History Bibliography

Thank you, Larry.
When I get to understand what "byrd" is, I'll certainly take a look.
Best regards.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 15 May 1994 11:47:44 -0700
From:    Patrick Charles <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: reply

Does this really need to be on this list?

                Patrick J. Charles

On Sat, 14 May 1994, Joe Canepa wrote:

>          Re: To drop or not to drop
>
>          An important distinction seems to lost in comparisons
>          between the tactics used and morality in WWII and in
>          the Gulf War or Panama.
>
>          World War II was an effort to defeat racist right-wing regimes
>          engaged in genocide in a path towards world domination.
>          To stop these effort extreme measures had to be used,
>          including the bombing of civilian populations. Not a
>          happy choice, but the alternative: the systematic extermination
>          of groups of innocents was much worse.
>
>          This country's role, as an intervenor, was to this country's
>          credit and those who participated can stand with any group
>          in the history of man as persons of principle and persons`
>          possessing the highest moral standards.
>
>          Panama and Iraq were no Third Reichs. There was no genocide in
>          Panama. Panama did not threaten its neighbors. The genocide
>          in Iraq, comparable to that in Syria or to the British
>          military in India in 20's, was not the same as Hitler's.
>          Iraq's real crime was attempting to control oil.
>
>          Panama's crime was?
>
>          The "collateral damage" of 7,000 civilians dead in Panama and
>          200,000 civilians brings little glory to the perpetrators and
>          shame to those who stood by without protest. Where was the
>          religious right? Is abortion an issue and the killing of say
>          a one year old by a smart bomb or burnt to death to be ignored?
>          Where are the bar associations when a foreign national is brought
>          by force to our courts, has his assets frozen so as to limit his
>          legal defense and has the attorney-client conversations bugged
>          by the government?
>
>          Where is the press when the Kuwait ambassador's daughter
>          gives widely disseminated horror stories of alleged Iraqi
>          atrocities, when she was quite safe in Washington and acting
>          with the advice and assistance of Hill and Knowlton?
>
>          This government armed Iraq and Panama. This government paid
>          Noriega substantial amounts and was thus his sponsor. Saddam
>          Hussien received no objection from our ambassador two days
>          before his invasion of Kuwait.
>
>          Panama and Iraq were orchestrations by propagandists. If
>          anyone man could be held responsible it must be George Bush.
>
>          This is ironic as Bush was one of those who risked his life
>          and voluntarily fought the Fascists.
>
>          An accidental after-effect of the WW-II was the evolution
>          of the intelligence community into an annual 30 billion
>          dollar operation with a 300 billion dollar military base.
>          Its thinking that means had no importance only the end
>          result, is the same thinking as that which fueled Hitler.
>
>          Bush was well schooled in this thinking, even to the
>          extent of ignoring his oath of office to uphold
>          the constitution. This was a great dishonor to those
>          who fought because the United States was free and subject
>          to the rule of law, and wished that others could have
>          similar protrection.
>
>          Now the drums are beaten to invader Haiti. What will be
>          an acceptable level of "collateral damage" in Haiti? The
>          answer is zero, although I am quite confident that neither
>          our politicians, press, or clergy will ever voice a similar
>          opinion. The only issue at stake in Haiti is American pride;
>          not worth a single non-combatant's life.
>
>          The Haitian people have the responsibility to bring democracy
>          to themselves. Aristede should attempt to gain his power back
>          via his own people not via foreign invaders.
>
>          Haiti is not another Third Reich. If this country must see
>          "action" for its military, is it not time to disarm? If
>          the 30 billion dollar bureaucracy cannot dispose of an
>          unpopular penny-anti Haitian military junta, is what the
>          spy recently said, the intelligence community is
>          really a "self-serving sham", true?
>
>
>          Joe Canepa
>

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 14 May 1994 to 15 May 1994
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