Subject: WWII-L Digest - 26 May 1994 to 27 May 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 28 May 1994 00:01:42 -0400

There are 39 messages totalling 1030 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: USN Chronology 05-27-94
  2. Hermann Goering Fallschrim Panzer Divison
  3. Clinton's D-Day/UK Speech (2)
  4. WEAP: Anglo-American Armor deficient?
  5. GEN: RECOLLECTIONS REGARDING GLIDERS ON JUNE 6
  6. MEDIA: GUGGENHEIM D-DAY FILM
  7. Body fat and Hair Loss
  8. [ADMIN] new flag?
  9. GEN/MEDIA:Stalingrad Film?
 10. D-Day and Balloons (5)
 11. Kelly's Heroes for real?! (2)
 12. MEDIA: D-Day Program Alert! (2)
 13. Fingerschreiben... (3)
 14. MEMOIR - Hans-Georg von Studnitz
 15. MEMOIR - Jean Galtier-Boissiere
 16. MEDIA: "The Incident"
 17. TRV: General MacArthur (3)
 18. HOME:U.S.: The Port Chicago Mutiny, August 9, 1944
 19. [GEN] Computer games and simulations (3)
 20. "Black Death"
 21. SAYING
 22. WWII Airbone Operations List (revised) (3)
 23. Thanks (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 01:27:28 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 05-27-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
05/27 Sat. Army forces land on Biak in the Schouten Islands off
           New Guinea under cover of naval gunfire from cruiser
           and destroyer force (Rear Adm. W. M. Fechteler).
            United States naval vessel sunk:
             PT-339, damaged by grounding in western New Guinea
              area,
              04 d. 01' S., 144 d. 41' E.;
              sunk by United States forces.
            United States naval vessel damaged:
             Submarine chaser SC-699, by suicide plane, western
              New Guinea area,
              01 d. 12 S., 136 d. 13' E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 10:48:36 +0100
From:    Yannick FRANCOIS Bozzo the Clone Yin Yang <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Hermann Goering Fallschrim Panzer Divison

>Barry Lowe writes:
>
>> The Hermann Goering Division was officially called FallschrimPanzer Divison
>> even though there were no parachute qualified troops.
>
>No, Barry, I think this means the Panzers were Airborne qualified. ;^)
>
>                                                Bob Kieran
>                                                [email-masked]

Not at all. It only was a toy given to Herman Goering so he could also play
with some panzers. It saw action around Anzio and never were air dropped
(as far as I know). In fact they had a godd training and some of the best
equipments: PzKpf V, StPzKpf V at Anzio for exemple. I don't have my books
at work, but I think it was a late creation (41 or 42) added to the
Luftwaffe when the Luftwaffe. If you're interested, I'll check tonight.

Hope this helps.

Bye - Yannick

<=======================================================> O         |\
< Man is a tool-using animal....Without tools he is     >    0      | |
< nothing, with tools he is all. - T. Carlyle           >      o    | |
< Knowledge itself is power. - F. Bacon                 >   ____.___|/
< An expert is one who knows more and more about less   >  /  _   _  \
< and less. - N. Butler                                 >  | / \ / \ |
< Je pense, donc je suis. - R. Descartes                >  | O_  o_  |
<=======================================================>  |    |    |
                                                           \   / \   /
                                                            \ \___/ /
                                                             \_____/

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 07:44:30 EDT
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Clinton's D-Day/UK Speech

On Thu, 26 May 1994 14:09:02 -0500 Louis R. Coatney said:
>     Considering that anti-Vietnam agitation led to the betrayal
>of the Indochinese and our own war dead, I would say that it
>was considerably more serious/objectionable than taking one side
>or the other on health reform.
>
>     You find my opinion ... upsetting?  :-)

No, I find it irrelevant, & I expect Joe to be yellow-carding you for
dragging in your mis-impressions of southeast asia yet again on a list
devoted to WWII.

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 08:05:05 EDT
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Anglo-American Armor deficient?

On Thu, 26 May 1994 20:59:12 EDT <[email-masked]> said:
>Joe Barone writes:
>>>  For the defensive posture that Germany found herself during
>the latter part of the war, I think they should have dumped turreted
>tanks.
>
>     Didn't Rommel make the same argument somewhere in The Rommel Papers?
> Certainly there was a strong argument for the course you outline.  Most
>Panzerjaegers and Strumgeschuetz were based on obsolete tank chassises.
> Continuing the production of these chassises saved retooling and increased
>the raw number of armored fighting vehicles being shipped.

I believe Rommel et al. favored massive production of JPs & assault guns
to be distributed to the Infantry, to improve its pitifully poor amount of
firepower/AT capability & give it the ability to hold out or break up an
attack.  But they were equally firm about equipping the panzer divisions
with panzers, and not substitutes.  I imagine the panzers would have been
even more capable in their role of fire brigade had such a dual track
solution been implemented, complemented by a standardization of types of
vehicles produced.

>    Finally, this whole discussion suffers from an over emphasis on a single
>factor in the effectiveness of armored forces.  Technology is important but,
>its is rarely decisive in and of itself.  In my professional estimation,
>crews and their training are a least equally important.  As the Iraqis and
>other have demonstrated, a technologically capable tank - like the T-72 - is
>of little value in the hands of poor or irresolute crewmen.  Comments?

Yes, this started out as a narrow thread on the technical merits of one set
of vehicles over another, *not* as an all-inclusive look at use of armor by
one side or the other.  That would require books to be written, no? (-:

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 14:36:00 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: RECOLLECTIONS REGARDING GLIDERS ON JUNE 6

  Oslo, May 28.  Since there have been a number of posting recently on airborne
operations, I thought some of you might be interested in a message I posted on
the Military Forum on Compuserve about my recollections of watching gliders land
on June 6:

#: 237720 S4/WWII/Commemorative  [MILITARY]
    26-May-94  06:46:52
Sb: #237571-1994-Germans at Normandy
Fm: John Ausland 73240,2704
To: Alex Humphrey 76701,140

  I do not know how the casualty rates compared between the paratroopers and
troops on gliders in Normandy, but watching those gliders come down the
afternoon of June 6 was an unforgetable and terrible experience.
  Although the weather had been uneven in the morning, by afternoon it was
clear and sunny.  We watched as colored parachutes carrying supplies
descended, making a colorful sight against the blue sky.
  The gliders were another matter.  They circled around, but then German
antiaircraft started firing at them.  With the hedgerows, the fields in which
to land the gliders were much too small.  Perhaps frightened by the
antiaircraft, some of the glider pilots may have landed a bit more quickly
than they should have.
  Whatever the reason, a number of the gliders crashed into the hedgerows. The
day was torn apart by screams of pain.  There were far more wounded than the
medics could handle at once.  Hence, the cries went on for a long time.
  If I remember correctly, and it is a memory I would prefer to forget, I
could see glider across a field, which had crashed into a hedgerow.  There
were, however, others not far away, which we could not see but could hear the
pleas for help.
  It had been beaten into us that we should leave first aid to the medics and
get on with our job, which was to get our artillery into position to support
the infantry.  This we did, and in due course the cries of pain ceased.
  All was quiet, except for rifle and machine gun fire in the distance, in the
direction of Ste. Mere Eglise, where the infantry was locked in battle with a
pocket of Germans between them and the paratroopers who held that town.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo, Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 14:28:53 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: GUGGENHEIM D-DAY FILM

  Oslo, May 28.  There have been several postings on the Guggenheim film.
First, let me note that I have not yet seen the film.  Guggenheim has promised
to send me a tape which can be used on the PAL system here.  They were, however,
busy with the film until its premier in New Orleans at the Eisenhower Center on
May 20, so I have no idea when it will arrive here.
  I should note that the film was made originally for the Eisenhower Center, run
by Stephen Ambrose, where it will be shown indefinitely.
  While Guggenheim interviewed me last summer, I do not know whether anything I
said was used and, if so, what.  It would appear, however, that my name was
listed in the credits at the end.
  There was a question here about training.  Of the assault divisions which
landed that day, I believe only the 1st had been in combat before.  In England,
I got acquainted with some of the officers at the officers' club at a hospital
near Axminster (nurses).  With their experiences, it was clear they were
dreading the landing.  We were nervous but too innocent to know what lay ahead
of us.
  I later talked to one of the 1st Division officers whom I met there
who was hit as he was getting off the landing craft, was taken back to England,
and ended up at that hospital.
  Back to training.  I joined the 4th Division in the summer of 1942 at Camp
Gordon in Augusta, Georgia.  At that time, it had already had considerable
training.  We continued to train until we switched over to amphibious training
in Florida sometime in 1943.  We went to England in early 1944 and began
intensive training, making several practice landings at Slapton Sands and
spending time at the Assault Training Center near Barnstaple, on the west coast
of Devon.
  Hence, when we went ashore at Utah Beach, we were at the peak of
preparation.  While we ran into little resistance on the beach, because we were
landed at the wrong place, the division performed well in the subsequent
attack up the peninsula to Cherbourg.  We made some mistakes, but these were not
due to lack of training but lack of judgment.
  As to helmet markings, there was a message which explained this.  As I recall,
we put those large stripes on the back of helmets so that Germans in front of us
would not know whether we were officers or enlisted men.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 07:27:59 PST
From:    "Jones, Scott T." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Body fat and Hair Loss

     Noris;

     I am not aware of any scientific basis for you r hair loss but I did
     experience the same thing when I went on a "No Fat" diet for 35 days.
     My hair became dry and "straw like", the skin on my feet, hands and
     scalp was VERY dry, and I had a little trouble adjusting back to a
     "little fat" diet. I could take a guess and say that the reduced/nil
     fat intake made it harder for my body to synthesize the waxy/oily
     substance which makes our skin water proof and hair shiny/healthy.
     Anyone else have this problem as well?

     Scott

     Scott T. Jones                | "Life is tough, but its tougher
     Dahlgren, VA 22448  USA       |  if you are a wuss."
     Internet: [email-masked]  |
_____________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 09:59:56 CDT
From:    Robert Hohlt <[email-masked]>
Subject: [ADMIN] new flag?

Joe Barone,

Since there seem to be quite a number of us strategic/tactical
computer game players on the list I suggest a new flag such as
[GAM] or [GAME] so those not interested in following our
conversations can exclude these.

To all, VETS,

Since Memorial day is near and the original purpose of this
day was to remember the fallen war dead, what is a proper way
to express Memorial Day?

I.E., Happy Veterans Day!!!!

whatever the proper lead in is, ________ Memorial Day to all.
GOD BLESS all you VETS out there

Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 08:03:59 PST
From:    "Jones, Scott T." <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN/MEDIA:Stalingrad Film?

     Earlier this year there was discussion on the list about a movie about
     the Battle for Stalingrad which was supposed to have been released in
     Canada(?) earlier this year. Has anyone seen or heard of it's journey
     toward the USA? Does anyone have any ideas for other methods to follow
     to get my paws on a copy? Any help is appreciated...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Scott T. Jones                | "Why didn't I shoot down that ME-110??!!
     Dahlgren, VA 22448  USA       |  Have you ever tried to bite a porcupine
     Internet: [email-masked]  |  in the butt?!"
_____________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 08:04:03 PST
From:    "Jones, Scott T." <[email-masked]>
Subject: D-Day and Balloons

     My fianc  had an interesting question the other night while we were
     watching a D-Day clip on the news...

     There were numerous barrage balloons dotting the sky in the film clip
     and I explained that they were there to discourage enemy aircraft from
     harassing the ground troops. She asked, "Did they seriously think that
     a pilot was going to get tangled up in those cables like a spider
     web?" It got me thinking (UH OH!), were the pilots wary of these
     balloons due to the threat of the cables shredding their wings off or
     were there other concerns? (PLEASE, do NOT tell me that they were used
     for "sightseeing" as she so elegantly put it!!!)

     Scott

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Scott T. Jones                | "It doesn't TAKE all kinds,
     Dahlgren, VA 22448  USA       |  we just HAVE all kinds."
     Internet: [email-masked]  |
_____________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 08:29:26 -0700
From:    Jim Benn <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Kelly's Heroes for real?!

>         As fow what General Patton's reaction would have been -- he used to
> insist on neckties, shaving, and steel helmets worn at all times in combat.
> Very sensible, well, the *helmets* part, anyway.  :-)  AS for shaving
> whenever possible, it is a subtle but very real aspect of maintaining
> troops' morale in battle.  In real life, scruffy does not a good soldier
> make.

In regards to shaving, was part of the purpose involved with facial
wounds? I remember reading somewhere that it was easier/cleaner to treat
facial wounds without having to deal with stubble or a beard.  Anything
to that?

Jim Benn.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 08:37:32 -0700
From:    Jim Benn <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Clinton's D-Day/UK Speech

On Thu, 26 May 1994, Louis R. Coatney wrote:

>
>      You find my opinion ... upsetting?  :-)
>
> Lou
>
No, but when you go off on these tangents, I do find your opinions more
appropriate for another listserv.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 08:53:01 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: D-Day Program Alert!

Jonah...
        Thanks for the TV alert.
        I have been recording the various programmes about D+50 on
Canadian and US television. It should be instructive for me afterwards
to view the current crop of June 6 commemorations in 1994, and then
compare them with the tapes I have of similar celebrations held in 1984,
marking the 40th anniversary of D-Day. I'm noticing a marked difference
of presentation, already. All interesting, though, however presented, and
valuable if only to inform the young about the sacrifices then which were
the price of freedom now.
Regards -- Sidney.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 09:05:49 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Kelly's Heroes for real?!

That's so, Jim... Shaving, aside from it's psychological feeling of
"smartness", had a useful basis regarding hygene, wound-dressing, and
infection.  Same with the wisdom of wearing clean clothing (for as
long as it manages to *stay* clean   :-) ), the idea being that dirty
cloth punctured inside a wound adds a lot of potential infection.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 09:43:38 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Fingerschreiben...

In NEWSWEEK, there's a brief listing of the value of autographs.
        Including:
                        Erwin Rommel  $1,500
                        Dwight Eisenhower  $295
There's symbolism there, somewhere...

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 09:47:53 -0700
From:    "Office TH325, Extension 3566" <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEMOIR - Hans-Georg von Studnitz

The following is from the MEMOIR list.  Bobs Tusa sends out short
reviews of first-person accounts she has read.  As she says, she is
beginning a WWII thread.  I thought some of the readers of this list
might be interested.  Forwarded with permission.

Begin Forward:

From:         "Bobs M. Tusa" <[email-masked]>
Subject:      Hans-Georg von Studnitz
To:           Multiple recipients of list MEMOIR-L <[email-masked]>

     Here beginneth a WWII thread.  An excellent example of the diary
 form ...

     Hans-Georg von Studnitz, "While Berlin Burns: The Diary of ..."
(Englewood Cliffs NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1963).  Re-reading my abstract
made me remember how much I liked this one.  The diary covers the
period from the failure of the Stalingrad offensive in February 1943
to von Studnitz' departing Berlin "on leave" in April 1945 in order
to make his way toward the American army.  My guess is that he is
a Prussian aristocrat (the family estates were in that area, and he
always refers to "the Germans" in the third person); I never had
time to look him up.  After a long service in the diplomatic corps,
he joined the Press Office of the Foreign Ministry.  He knew the
Horstmanns (see her "We Chose To Stay") and Marie Vassiltchikov
(see her "Berlin Diaries"); never mentions Rommel; seems to have
respected Hitler; knew nothing about the concentration camps, he
says.  This is unremittingly tense, remarkably objective, and
free of crap.  His attitude is one of annoyance, almost personal
affront, whenever "the Germans" screw something up; but he always
does his duty intelligently and efficiently.  The account becomes
fascinating as bombs destroy Berlin and the fronts move closer
together toward the city.
     "Only a week before the catastrophe (being bombed out) I had
been rash enough to buy a Louis XVI long-case clock.  But we had
all been doing much the same sort of thing, with Freddy (Horstmann)
leading the van.  And now we have gone down, with colours flying,
filled with the satisfaction of having to the very end lived as we
would have wished to live and of having made no concessions to the
barbarous spirit of the times.  But now it is all over.  Now we
shall be dependent on other people...; now we are nomads who wander,
not because the spirit takes us, but because we are homeless."

Bobs M. Tusa                                          Phone:(318)257-2935
Head, Special Collections, Manuscripts and Archives   Fax:(318)257-2447
Prescott Memorial Library                             Bitnet:TUSA@LATECH
Louisiana Tech University                 Internet:[email-masked]
Ruston, LA  71272

End Forward

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 09:49:47 -0700
From:    "Office TH325, Extension 3566" <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEMOIR - Jean Galtier-Boissiere

>From the MEMOIR list:  Forwarded by permission.

Date:         Fri, 27 May 1994 07:41:33 CST
Sender:       First-Hand Accounts <[email-masked]>
From:         "Bobs M. Tusa" <[email-masked]>
Subject:      Jean Galtier-Boissiere
To:           Multiple recipients of list MEMOIR-L <[email-masked]>

     A WWII first-hand account from France ...

     Jean Galtier-Boissiere, "Mon Journal pendant l'occupation" (Paris:
Garas/La Jeune Parque, 1945).  There may be an English translation;
if not, what else are you doing this summer?  Printed on cheap wartime
paper, "My Journal During the Occupation" is a compilation of the
daily observations of life in Paris during the Nazi occupation by the
shrewd, ironic, very Parisian (whatever we mean by that, but we know
what we mean, don't we?) editor of the journal "Crapouillot" from 1915
until it was shut down in 1939.  (I did not look that word up, but
the game of chance 'craps' was invented by the wealthy 19th-century
New Orleanian Bernard de Marigny in order to gamble for the small
change left in his pocket after a night of gambling for bigger stakes,
so ...).
     Galtier-Boissiere (don't pronounce the 'r' in 'Galtier' and you'll
be ok) was given to recording the reactions of his fellow Parisians to
a situation against which their only weapons were rudeness and wit,
weapons some people feel the French are extremely adept with in the
best of circumstances.  He reflects their sense of having been betrayed
by their statesmen and generals; French antisemitism; resentment toward
the black market nouveau riche.  Excellent account of the uprising of
Paris toward the end and the scenes in the streets as Leclerc's tanks
roll into the city.
     His friend upon being arrested with his wife by the Gestapo:
"Our situation will now improve; yesterday we lived in dread; from now
on we will live in hope."  (By the way, I have read this same statement
more than once in several WWII accounts.)
     This has to be in the original for the pun at the end:  "Comment
sera gagnee la guerre?  'Par l'or americain, la tenacite anglaise,
... et la comedie francaise.'"  ("How will the war be won?  'With
American money, British tenacity, ... and French ridiculousness.'"
'La Comedie Francaise' is the famous Paris theatrical company, whose
name G-B uses as a pun for his criticism of the way the French do
anything, including fight a war.)  (Don't write me letters; I love
what I identify as the French point of view.)

     Tell me this is a three-day weekend!  Thank the Lord!  Home to
volume IV of what Quentin Bell calls the "accurate beauty" of Virginia
Woolf's diary.  May you all have much relaxation.

Bobs M. Tusa                                          Phone:(318)257-2935
Head, Special Collections, Manuscripts and Archives   Fax:(318)257-2447
Prescott Memorial Library                             Bitnet:TUSA@LATECH
Louisiana Tech University                 Internet:[email-masked]
Ruston, LA  71272

End Forward

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 13:18:56 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: D-Day and Balloons

Not only were barrage balloons considered a threat to (relatively
low-flying) aircraft, as I understand it, but a number of reasonably
intelligent people thought that wires could be used in other ways to
discourage enemy aircraft:

* As Claire Chennault told the story, Clayton Bissell (WWI ace, later
Chennault's boss & nemesis in 10th AF) as an instructor in the Air Corps
Tactical School in the 1930s argued that interceptors should dangle
cables with steel balls at the ends of them, to destroy bomber props.

* And that great polymath Winston Churchill spent a great deal of his
time and that of the military establishment on a scheme to drop parachute
bombs, with a long cable between the chute and the bomb, upon German
bomber formations. Hitting them, the bomber would bring the counter-bomb
up against his own belly or anyhow near enuf to damage the plane.

Nothing came of either scheme.

- Dan           They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
                Age shall not weary them, nor time condemn.
                At the going down of the sun and in the morning
                We will remember them.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 19:28:00 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: D-Day and Balloons

On Fri, 27 May 1994, Dan Ford wrote:

> * As Claire Chennault told the story, Clayton Bissell (WWI ace, later
> Chennault's boss & nemesis in 10th AF) as an instructor in the Air Corps
> Tactical School in the 1930s argued that interceptors should dangle
> cables with steel balls at the ends of them, to destroy bomber props.
>
> * And that great polymath Winston Churchill spent a great deal of his
> time and that of the military establishment on a scheme to drop parachute
> bombs, with a long cable between the chute and the bomb, upon German
> bomber formations. Hitting them, the bomber would bring the counter-bomb
> up against his own belly or anyhow near enuf to damage the plane.

It was actually used in combat during WWII. The 'Long Aerial Mine', a
600m cable with as bomb attached to it, was used for a brief time by
twenty RAF Douglas A-20 Boston/Havoc aircraft.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 12:43:21 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: "The Incident"

On Sunday, May 29, 1994, at 8 p.m. C.D.T. (9 p.m. E.D.T.), CBS will
rerun "The Incident" with Walter Matthau and Harry Morgan.  A lawyer
defends a German POW in a World War II murder trial.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 12:51:09 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRV: General MacArthur

Is it true that when General MacArthur left the Philippines he
took the gold bullion from the Philippine treasury with him?  Can
anyone cite a source where this is discussed?

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 12:58:49 -0500
From:    Michael D Wallick <[email-masked]>
Subject: HOME:U.S.: The Port Chicago Mutiny, August 9, 1944

In THE PORT CHICAGO MUTINY, Robert L. Allen states that the rebellion by
the Port Chicago seamen was not an isolated incident.  There was a two-day
hunger strike by 1000 black Seabees in March 1945; the Guam riot of
December 1944; and the case of fifteen Seabees who in October 1943 were
dishonorably discharged because they spoke out against discrimination in
the Navy.  Can anyone elaborate on these incidents? Recently, an effort
was being made to have the court martial convictions of the fifty Port
Chicago mutineers overturned.  Was this successful?

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 15:20:54 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRV: General MacArthur

MacArthur went out by PT boat. The gold went out by submarine *as
ballast* because the capt who brought in a load of food had so depleted
his ballast that he required more. This story I am reasonably sure is
told by John Toland in *But Not In Shame* but unfortunately the index is
not good enuf for me to find the reference. (I tried under "gold" and
"submarine".)

- Dan           They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
                Age shall not weary them, nor time condemn.
                At the going down of the sun and in the morning
                We will remember them.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 15:32:58 -0400
From:    Robert Hanks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: D-Day and Balloons

According to one of British General Sir William Robertson's memoirs,
barrage balloons were introduced during the First World War in London and
were intended to entangle enemy planes with their cables. Were they
effective in this role? Probably not. Although of some threat to
low-flying night bombers, it is doubtful that these balloons were a real
danger. They might have also served as poinnts of reference and
rangefinding for searchlights and AA fire, but I think that their real
significance was to placate public opinion with some sort of reassuring
gesture from the government. This would explain their continnued use in WW
II.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 14:38:00 PDT
From:    "Brady, Mark" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRV: General MacArthur

I was in the Philippines for seven years and got to go out to Corregidor
several times.  Pretty nice place.  Dugout Doug took at PT boat out of
Corregidor and left most, if not all, the treasury behind.  I remember
reading a book called _Corregidor: Glory, Ghosts and Gold_ written by one of
the Embassy wives.  In it, she stated that all of treasury, some $10 million
(at that time) dollars in Gold coin and bullion were taken out into Manila
Bay and thrown in.  I remember her quoting one of the sailors who was doing
the disposal as saying that it was a novelty at first but then it just
became hard work.  Anyway, we used to hear stories of some of those coins
washing up on the beaches around the bay and now and then, treasure hunting
parties would be organized to try to find the money.  Sorry that I don't
have the book but I lent it out in college and it never came back but I am
pretty sure about the title.  Try Interlibrary Loan.

Mark Brady
[email-masked]
Disclaimer:
The opinions in this message are strictly those of the author and do not
belong to Texas Children's Hospital, St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital, the
Texas Heart Institute or any other sane entity.
 ----------
From: owner-wwii-l
To: Multiple recipients of list WWII-L
Subject: TRV: General MacArthur
Date: Friday, May 27, 1994 12:51PM

Is it true that when General MacArthur left the Philippines he
took the gold bullion from the Philippine treasury with him?  Can
anyone cite a source where this is discussed?

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 21:48:09 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: D-Day and Balloons

Barrage balloons seem to have been effective against Ju 87 'Stuka' dive
bombers during the Battle of Britain. I don't know whether they made many
victims --- I doubt it --- but they reportedly made their attacks less
effective.

Also, the Germans considered the ballloon problem serious enough that they
built a number of Heinkel He 111 bombers with cable-cutters, a sharp
horizontal edge supported by struts that was fitted in front of the leading
edge of the wing, also covering the nose and the propellers. These weren't
used much, however.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 16:16:07 -0400
From:    Walter O'Hara <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [GEN] Computer games and simulations

Jim Rose (from TAHGC) told me that he won't release TR for the IBM until
critical AI problems have been worked out.  The Hill has too much riding
on their latest (and best) venture into the computer entertainment
software market to put out a mediocre product.

Walt O'Hara
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

On Wed, 25 May 1994, Jim Benn wrote:

> On this topics, does anyone know if Avalon Hill ever brought out the IBM
> computer version of THIRD REICH?
> I originally started calling in late 93 when it was supposed to be
> available, but it got put off so often that I gave up.  Thanks.
>
> Jim Benn.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 16:23:10 -0400
From:    Walter O'Hara <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [GEN] Computer games and simulations

Actually, in one form or another, all three are.

Panzer Leader is out in an old shareware game (available for FTP at
NIC.FUNET.FI pub/msdos/games/strategy) called front 2 by Henrik Hexbroe
from Denmark.

3RD REICH is going to be out sometime this year from Avalon Hill's
Software division.  As I have mentioned in a previous posting, there is a
lot of AI tweaking going on right now.  If you want a game with a similar
feel, try HIGH COMMAND from 360 Pacific.  Not the most brilliant game in
the world but very, very entertaining.

SL/ASL will make its computer debut with Avalon Hill's BEYOND SQUAD LEADER
coming out in early 95.  Preliminary reports are postive, but it lacks the
real look and feel of the boardgame (IMHO) from what I've seen so far.

Walt O'Hara
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

On Wed, 25 May 1994, GEARHEART DRAKE ERICK wrote:

> I grew up playing PANZER LEADER and SQUAD LEADER.  In addition to THIRD
> REICH, does anyone know if any of these other two are on computer now?
>
>                                         Drake

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 16:36:17 -0400
From:    "Harold J. Cohen." <[email-masked]>
Subject: "Black Death"

                          I would appreciate receiving references in English
about the so-called "Black Death,"Soviet naval infantry that fought in the
Crimea during World War II. Thanks in advance.

                               Harold J. Cohen
                               Ithaca College

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 16:42:26 -0400
From:    Kevin Kamphaus <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: D-Day Program Alert!

Also, I believe on 20/20 tonight there is going to be a D-Day program with PeterJennings. It may be in place of 20/20, I can't remember. This is ABC, check yourlocal listings.

Kevin Kamphaus
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 16:45:52 EDT
From:    SKIP WILDER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Fingerschreiben...

Sidney,
        Interesting, those autograph prices.  Suggest, however, that in
lieu of symbolism what we're seeing here is good old supply and demand.
        Regards, Sidney; I always enjoy the crisp writing and droll humor
of your posts.

 -----------------------------------------------------------
 |    Skip Wilder              |                           |
 |    [email-masked]      |"The road to hell is paved |
 |    FAX (703)528-2103        | with good intentions."    |
 |    McLean, Virginia, U.S.A. |                           |
 -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 18:24:52 -0500
From:    Ronald A Wilson <[email-masked]>
Subject: SAYING

   To whom is the following attributed please?

   "They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
   Age shall not weary them, nor time condemn.
   At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will
   remember them."

   Thanks,

   Ron Wilson <[email-masked]>
   Seattle

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 16:30:53 -0400
From:    Walter O'Hara <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [GEN] Computer games and simulations

Re: Kampfgruppe as "Panzer Blitz/Leader"

Yup, I'd say this was a pretty close port of the Panzerblitz series, but
with much more cumbersome mechanics.  Of interest is the fact that SSI is
considering re-releasing all their old PC based wargames again, including
Kampfgruppe, Panzer Strike, Gettysburg, etc.  Can you imagine how fast
they will run on 486 machines?

Walt O'Hara
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 16:34:04 PST
From:    "Joseph R. BOEKE" <[email-masked]>
Subject: WWII Airbone Operations List (revised)

Okay, this is the list of airborne operations that I have compiled.  I have
made some "purposeful ommisions" in an attempt to focus strictly on the
employment of airborne troops on combat drops.

I left out the "strictly commando" raids (although the Skorzeny raid to free
Mussolini & the U.S. Los Banos raids were included).  The only other
significant operations that I left off the list are the 1943 & 44 Chindit ops
in Burma, because the main airborne component was more air re/supply rather
than combat drops (yes, the Chindits were droped, but they weren't really
airborne troops), the 82nd's drop at Salerno (they dropped behind U.S. lines
as reinforcements and other such jumps), and some of the glider re-supply ops
(like at Bastone amd in New Guniea).

Thanks to everyone on CONSIM-L & WWII-L who helped point me to sources &
operations (special thanks to MAJ Barrett Lowe, USMA).  The list that follows
was compiled with the help of those above and cross referenced with _Air
Assault: the development of airmobile warfare_ by John R. Galvin.

If you still see some major ommissions (that aren't covered in my statements
above), please let me know the details -- sources are also greatly
appreciated.

I'll start putting together a list of games to go with these operations.

- Joe
  [email-masked]

  S E C O N D   W O R L D   W A R    A I R B O R N E   O P E R A T I O N S

Location (Operation):   Date:          Airborne:
--------------------    ----           --------

Norway/Denmark          Apr '40        German 1/7 Para Regt
Netherlands             May '40        German 7th Para Div- (5 battalions)
                                       German 22nd Air Landing Div (AL)
Belgium                 May '40        German Reinf Para Co
                                       German Assault Engineers
Greece                  Apr '41        German 2/7 Para Regt
                                       Italian ? (dropped on Cephalonia)
Crete (Mercury)         May '41        German 7th Para Div
                                       German 5th Mnt Div  (AL)
Vyazma                  Jan-Feb '42    Soviet IV Airborne Corps
Celebes                 Jan '42        IJN Yokosuka SNLF
Sumatra                 Feb '42        IJA 1st Para Brigade
Timor                   Feb '42        IJN Yokosuka SNLF
Bruneval, France        Feb '42        British Camaroon Highlanders (1 Co)
Algeria (Torch)         Nov '42        U.S. 2/509 Para Inf Battalion
Algeria/Tunisia         Nov '42        British 1/1 Para Brigade
                                       U.S. 2/509 Para Inf Battalion
                                       British 2/1 Para Brigade
Sicily (Husky)          Jul '43        U.S. 82 Airborne Div-
                                       British 1 Airborne Div-
                                       German 1st & 2nd Para Div
New Guinea              Sep '43        U.S. 503rd Para Inf Regiment
Italy                   Sep '43        German 2nd Para Div (elements)
                                       U.S. 509th Airborne Brigade
                                       German Cadet Para Battalion (elements)
                                       German Skorzeny's Commando
Kanev                   Sep '43        Soviet 5th Guards Para Brigade
                                       Soviet 1st Para Brigade
                                       Soviet 3rd Para Brigade
Elba, Italy             Nov '43        German 2nd Para Div
Leros, Greece           Nov '43        German 2nd Para Div (elements)
Yougoslavia             May '44        German 500th SS Para
    (Roesselsprung)
Normandy (Overlord)     Jun '44        British 6th Airborne Div
                                       U.S. 82nd Airborne Div
                                       U.S. 101st Airborne Div
France (Dragoon)        Aug '44        U.S. 1/551st Para Inf Reg
                                       U.S. 550th Glider Inf Reg
                                       U.S. 517th Para Inf Reg
                                       U.S. 509th Para Inf Reg
                                       U.S. 463rd Para Arty Reg (elements)
                                       British 2nd Ind Para Brigade
                                       French 1st Para Brigade
                                       U.S. 442nd Inf Antitank Co
Netherlands (Market)    Sep '44        U.S. 101st Airborne Div
                                       U.S. 82nd Airborne Div
                                       British 1st Airborne Div
                                       Polish 1st Para Brigade
Leyte, Philippines      Dec '44        IJA Task Force Katori Shimpei
Ardennes (Condor)       Dec '44        German Para Kampfgruppe
Luzon, Philippines      Jan '45        U.S. 511th Para Inf Reg
Corregidor              Feb '45        U.S. 503rd Para Inf Reg+
Los Banos, Philippines  Feb '45        U.S. Co B 511th Para Inf Reg
Rhine (Varsity)         Mar '45        U.S. 17th Airborne Div
                                       British 6th Airborne Div
Aparri, Philippines     May '45        U.S. "Gypsy Task Force"

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 18:38:35 -0500
From:    GEARHEART DRAKE ERICK <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII Airbone Operations List (revised)

Would "John R. Galvin" be the same as Gen. John R. Galvin (Ret), the
former CINCSOUTHCOM and SACEUR before Gen. Shalikashvili was?

                                        Drake E. Gearheart
                                        History
                                        University of Kansas
                                        ********************
                                        B-3/502 101st AASLT 87-89
                                        AASLT Class 6-86

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 17:11:20 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Fingerschreiben...

'Good to hear from you, Skip.
        Thanks.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 20:08:37 -0400
From:    Kevin Kamphaus <[email-masked]>
Subject: Thanks

A note of thanks this memorial day to the VETS on the list. We probably wouldn'tbe here without you.

Kevin Kamphaus
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 20:58:16 EDT
From:    "Jonah Triebwasser, Adjunct Instructor,
         Marist Coll" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Thanks

>A note of thanks this memorial day to the VETS on the list. We probably wouldn'
>be here without you.
>
>
>Kevin Kamphaus
>[email-masked]
 A deep and heartfelt AMEN to that. At the most recent meeting of the
International Churchill Society, there was a non-denominational
memorial service at the Navy Chapel in Washington, DC, with a
member of the American Jewish War Vets reading from the Old Testament
and a British Vet reading from the New Testament. This was a re-
creation of the service aboard HMS Prince of Wales with FDR and
Churchill in August of '41. To hear these vets speak of lost comrades
and then hear them read the service was a deeply moving experience.
Watching the surprisingly good CBS D-Day Documentary last night,
I turned to my wife and said "I don't know if I would have had the
guts to do what these men did on those beaches."

Jonah Triebwasser
Adjunct Instructor
Marist College
Dyson Building (Adult Education)
Poughkeepsie, New York12601
Tel: (914) 575-3331, ext. 7037
E-Mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 28 May 1994 11:25:50 +1523847
From:    Kevin Noonan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII Airbone Operations List (revised)

OK the airborne list may still be in need of revision :)

I seem to remember seeing film of Australian troops landing in Borneo (?)
in 1945. As I am not certain of this can anyone help?

Problem is I guess that all you yanks etc seem to forget Australia wa
actually involved in WWII :)

Kevin Noonan
[email-masked]

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 26 May 1994 to 27 May 1994
*************************************************