Subject: WWII-L Digest - 27 May 1994 to 28 May 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 May 1994 00:00:24 -0400

There are 11 messages totalling 355 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. "Black Death"
  2. WWII Airbone Operations List (revised) (3)
  3. TRV: General MacArthur
  4. WEAP: Anglo-American ArmoUr deficient?
  5. INF: USN Chronology 05-28-94
  6. B-25 (2)
  7. Doug MacArthur
  8. NOST: 50 years ago this week

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Date:    Fri, 27 May 1994 21:19:40 -0700
From:    Ed Kettler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: "Black Death"

I believe that the US Naval Institute has a book on the subject.

Ed Kettler                                       [email-masked]

On Fri, 27 May 1994, Harold J. Cohen. wrote:

>                           I would appreciate receiving references in English
> about the so-called "Black Death,"Soviet naval infantry that fought in the
> Crimea during World War II. Thanks in advance.
>
>                                Harold J. Cohen
>                                Ithaca College
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 28 May 1994 00:51:20 -0800
From:    Joseph Boeke <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII Airbone Operations List (revised)

>From the keyboard of Kevin Noonan <[email-masked]>:

> I seem to remember seeing film of Australian troops landing in Borneo (?)
> in 1945. As I am not certain of this can anyone help?
>
> Problem is I guess that all you yanks etc seem to forget Australia wa
> actually involved in WWII :)

Kevin,

No slight to you Aussies intended, I just haven't heard/seen anything about
this op.  I'll look through my sources -- maybe you could check in the
official histories of Austrailian forces that were published after the war.

>From the keyboard of GEARHEART DRAKE ERICK <[email-masked]>:

> Would "John R. Galvin" be the same as Gen. John R. Galvin (Ret), the
> former CINCSOUTHCOM and SACEUR before Gen. Shalikashvili was?

Yes, although this book was written in 1969, after he had returned from a
tour of duty in Vietnam with the 1st Cavalry Division.

- Joe
  [email-masked]

- Joe Boeke
  [email-masked]

  "The day after tommorow is the third day, of the rest of your life."
     - George Carlin

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Date:    Sat, 28 May 1994 05:52:10 -0700
From:    "Office TH325, Extension 3566" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TRV: General MacArthur

>MacArthur went out by PT boat. The gold went out by submarine *as
>ballast* because the capt who brought in a load of food had so depleted
>his ballast that he required more. This story I am reasonably sure is
>told by John Toland in *But Not In Shame* but unfortunately the index is
>not good enuf for me to find the reference. (I tried under "gold" and
>"submarine".)

See "Silent Victory", by Clay Blair.  The submarine was Trout, skippered
by Mike Fenno.  They removed all but 8 torpedoes and most of the
ballast.  She took 3,517 3 inch anti-aircraft shells to Corregidor.
They picked up 10 torpedos and 27,000 gallons of fuel oil but needed
additional ballast.  He requested 25 tons of sandbags, instead he was
offered 2 tons of gold and 18 tons of silver.  Trout continued on patrol
with its "ballast" and sank a 2.700 ton maru.

When he returned to Pearl Harbor he was hailed as a hero, given the Army
Distinguished Service Cross by order of President Roosevelt and the rest
of the crew the Army Silver Star Medal.  But he had a problem as he came
up one brick ($14,500.00) short.  After an inch-by-inch search the extra
brick was found serving as a paperweight for one of the cooks.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 28 May 1994 08:52:30 -0400
From:    Akira Takiguchi <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Anglo-American ArmoUr deficient?

Re power-driven turret of German panzers:

     Panzer III didn't have power-driven turret.  Pz IV did have it
except Ausf. J which had hand-driven two-speed turret.  Ausf J. dropped
power-driven turret in favor of increased fuel capacity for greater
action radius.  Interesting decision.
     Panther, Tiger I, and Tiger II all had power-driven turret.

     Here's how Tiger I's 11t heavy turret was operated:

  ... The turret was turned by a hydraulic gearbox.  The gunner's feet
  rested on a tilting platform.  If he pressed the tip of his foot
  towards the front, the turret turned towards the right; if he pressed
  with his sole to the rear, it turned to the left.  The more he pressed
  in the corresponding direction, the faster the movement.  At its
  slowest, a 360 degree revolution of the weapons in the turret took 60
  minutes, at its quickest, 60 seconds.  Extreme aiming accuracy was thus
  ensured.  Thre practised gunner didn't need to adjust afterwards with
  his hand.
  (_Tiger in Schlamm_  Otto Carius)

     Tiger II had a heavier turret (13.5t), but it showed much better
performance:

  ... With the high range power traverse engaged and the engine turning
  over at 2000 rpm, the turret could be traversed through 360 degrees
  in 19 seconds.  At the maximum allowable engine speed of 3000 rpm,
  the turrent could be traversed 360 degrees in less than ten seconds.
  (_Kingtiger heavy tank_  Tom Jentz et al)

     Panther had a turret which could be traversed 360 degrees in 60
seconds, the same speed as Tiger I.  Apparently this was considered
insufficient, and Ausf. F (never saw action) was planned to have a turret
which could be traversed within 30 seconds (_Der Panzer-Kampfwagen Panther
und seine Abarten_  Spielberger).

     In general German heavy panzers had better armament and protection,
comparable mobility.  Poor reliablity in some cases, but the devoted
"miracle people" (maintenance) fixed the mechinical and battle damage
immediately.  I will certainly choose German panzers if I were asked
to choose.  Western tanks might be the second choice, not because they
are superior to Russian tanks, but because Russian tanks must not have
been designed for a 6 feet+ person :).
--
      Akira Takiguchi  VP, ATSON, Inc.  (a subsidiary of the Asahi Shimbun)
             CANAL TOWER  9-3 Nihonbashi-Koamicho Chuo-ku Tokyo 103  Japan
   +81 3 3666 2881(voice) 2882(fax)  EMAIL TO <[email-masked]>

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 28 May 1994 10:00:41 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 05-28-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
05/28 Sun.  United States naval vessel damaged:
             Destroyer STOCKTON (DD-646), by coastal defense
              gun, Biak Island, Schouten Islands, off New
              Guinea,
              01 d. 00' S., 136 d. 00' E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 28 May 1994 13:59:48 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII Airbone Operations List (revised)

We can add a new airborne drop to the list.
        'Seems that 40 members of the Return to Normandy Association
-- of them veterans of D-Day; average age 72 -- want to go back by the
same method they did the first time. By parachute. They have asked the
US Defense Dept. to provide the planes. The reply was slow in coming,
so the old vets got private funds to rent two C-47 cargo planes. They
will jump on June 5 at Ste Mere Eglise.
        "Geronimo"   ?
        or
        "Geron-imo"  ?   :-)
'Way to go, men!

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 28 May 1994 17:56:20 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: B-25

Can anyone answer two questions about the B-25?

1.  Can you explain the designations:
        ETC-25J.        ETB-25K.        JTB-25K.        TB-25K.

2.  I have a picture of a B-25 with what appears to be a wing type
structure mounted under the aircraft just aft of the wings.
Does anyone know what it is called and what it was used for?

  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic. |    economic, social, political     |
  |                                  |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |                                  |  B-25 in WWII.                     |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 28 May 1994 19:15:09 -0400
From:    Steven VEST <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WWII Airbone Operations List (revised)

> Problem is I guess that all you yanks etc seem to forget Australia wa
> actually involved in WWII :)
> Kevin Noonan
> [email-masked]

Not MY father. He was a marine and spoke of the Australian solidiers with
something close to awe.  He said they were the toughest and bravest
soldiers he'd ever seen.  He also said many of them were certifiably
crazy in combat, taking risks that even the Japanese were amazed at.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 28 May 1994 19:37:20 -0700
From:    Ed Kettler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: B-25

George,

The following information is from "B-25 Mitchell The Magnificent Medium",
N.L. Avery, Phalanx Publishing, St Paul, MN 1992.

TB-25K is a converted B-25J with the E-1 fire control system for training
fire control operators.  117 converted by Hughes in 1950.

TB-25M is similar, except with E-5.

The book does list a JTB-25N, with 3 converted, but doesn't give specifics.

If the wing-like device is mounted on the belly, is about 1' in chord and
about 15' long, it might be the Eagle bombing radar antenna.

I hope that helps.
--

Ed Kettler                                       [email-masked]

On Sat, 28 May 1994, GEORGE BAUER wrote:

> Can anyone answer two questions about the B-25?
>
> 1.  Can you explain the designations:
>         ETC-25J.        ETB-25K.        JTB-25K.        TB-25K.
>
> 2.  I have a picture of a B-25 with what appears to be a wing type
> structure mounted under the aircraft just aft of the wings.
> Does anyone know what it is called and what it was used for?
>
>
>   =========================================================================
>   | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
>   |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
>   | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
>   |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
>   | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
>   |   Prague and new Czech Republic. |    economic, social, political     |
>   |                                  |    problems and opportunities.     |
>   |                                  |  B-25 in WWII.                     |
>   | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
>   |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
>   =========================================================================
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 29 May 1994 12:12:03 +1523847
From:    Kevin Noonan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Doug MacArthur

As Burt Knight said;

>In the states, we tend to be very ethnocentric but MacArthur didn't help you
>Aussies and Kiwi's out much either.  If it was US troops, the fact was
>mentioned.  If they were Commonwealth, UK, or other troops, the press release
>read 'Troops under the command of General MacArthur.

In fact Douggie is regarded (correctly IMHO) as a politician first and a
general second. His total disregard for the achievements of Aussie troops
in New Guinea colours the Official US histories where the lies about
"poor" quality of the Australia soldier are repeated. Lies relating to the
Kokoda Trail are prime, but are followed by Buna/Gona.

For an interesting honest view of the relative merits of USA vs Australian
troops and low level officers read

McAuley, L. "Blood and Iron", 1991, Random House -- on the Kokoda Trail

and

McAuley, L. "To the Bitter End", 1992, Random House -- Buna and Gona

Very detaled analysis of every aeroplane mission and every ground combat.

Kevin Noonan
[email-masked]

After all is said and done, sit down

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 28 May 1994 22:44:11 EDT
From:    "Jonah Triebwasser, Adjunct Instructor,
         Marist Coll" <[email-masked]>
Subject: NOST: 50 years ago this week

I have obtained two calendars, one from the International Churchill
Society and one from the US Department of Defense which highlight
some of the events of WWII. As time permits, I will post some of
these events:

Fifty Years ago this week:
Sources: (c) = Churchill society; (d) = Defense Dept.

30 May - Battle for Rome begins. Churchill (WSC) informs King George
that he (WSC) plans to witness the invasion of Normandy from a
cruiser. Kings wants to accompany WSC. (c)
31 May - King tells WSC that they should "remain at home and wait."(c)
2 June - WSC summons Admiral Cunningham to discuss arrangements for
his (WSC's) accomodation on HMS Belfast during invasion. (c)
3 June - WSC watches Tynside Division embark at Southhampton. (c)
4 June - US Army enters Rome (d). Rome falls. Ike postpones D-Day for
24 hours. WSC receives plea from the King not to participate in the
invasion. WSC informs deGaulle of invasion plans and takes him to
visit Ike. (c)

Jonah Triebwasser
Adjunct Instructor
Marist College
Dyson Building (Adult Education)
Poughkeepsie, New York12601
Tel: (914) 575-3331, ext. 7037
E-Mail: [email-masked]

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End of WWII-L Digest - 27 May 1994 to 28 May 1994
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