Subject: WWII-L Digest - 4 May 1994 to 5 May 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 00:00:47 -0400

There are 46 messages totalling 1141 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Re[2]: INF: German uniform question
  2. machine guns vs cannons. (3)
  3. Spam: Final Shot
  4. INF: USN Chronology 05-05-94
  5. MEDIA: Combat! marathon (9)
  6. German paratroopers dropped sans chutes? (5)
  7. USAAF & USMC Night Fighter Units
  8. TAC: River Platte (Graf Spee) (3)
  9. INF: USAAF 5 MAY 44
 10. MEDIA: WWII TV shows
 11. MEDIA: COLDITZ
 12. MEDIA: Hunt for the last Nazi's (4)
 13. Please remove user from list
 14. Military/Naval TV shows ... and submarines
 15. TRV:  entertaining yet useless WWII trivia
 16. Spam in Europe
 17. SPAM  :-P (2)
 18. P-61 Black Widow
 19. [TRIV] Costal defense guns (3)
 20. Question: Cannon/Machine Gun
 21. D-Day Decoy
 22. Sir Dr. Archibald McIndoe
 23. (Graf Spee)
 24. Japanese Interwar CV Air Group Compositions:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 14:55:33 +1000
From:    Mick Fauchon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: INF: German uniform question

        Dale,

            It's called the "Ringkragen", and standard-bearers as well as
field-police wore them. I believe "Feldj"ager" is the modern term, at
least in the Bundeswehr; the Wehrmacht term was "Feldgendarmerie".

                                                        Cheers,

                                                        Mick.

--                                                                          --
Mick Fauchon                          | Internet: [email-masked]
Reference Section, Auchmuty Library   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 215861
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA    | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

On Wed, 4 May 1994, GERMAN 101/102 LAB wrote:

> In regards to the breast plate worn in some of the WW II movies, what
> you are referring to is the FELDJAEGER or Military Police breastplate.
>
> Dale Lally
> St. Lawrence University
> Canton NY 13617
> [email-masked]
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 4 May 1994 23:25:18 -0700
From:    Gerry Walker <[email-masked]>
Subject: machine guns vs cannons.

Have we come to any concensus about the difference?

I still hold to my opinion about the explosive vs non-explosive projectile
being the defining factor.

Cheers,

Gerry

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 08:18:42 BST
From:    Stephen Baldwin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Spam: Final Shot

Ladies and Gentlemen!

It has come to my attention that some linguistic confusion may have resulted
from my mention of British "Faggots" in aforementioned debate. I feel it
is my duty to inform our North American colleagues (who form the majority
on the list) that despite the mass onslaught of American linguistic
imperialism, the term Faggot has no official "other" connotations in English -
it merely means either a bundle of firewood, or a particular
culinary delight to which I was referring. However, if it did cause some
wry amusement over the water, well, wot's wrong with that?

yours for propa inglish

vote Labor

steve baldwin
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 01:18:44 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 05-05-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr44.txt

1944
05/05 Fri. Admiral S. Toyoda's appointment as Commander in Chief
           of Japanese Combined Fleet is announced; he succeeds
           Admiral Koga, killed in an airplane crash on 31 March
           1944.
            United States naval vessels sunk:
             Destroyer escort FECHTELER (DE-157), by submarine
              torpedo, western Mediterranean area,
              36 d. 07' N., 02 d. 40' W.
             PT-247, by coastal defense gun, Solomon Islands
              area,
              06 d. 38' s., 156 d. 01' E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 06:26:00 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Combat! marathon

Kurt,

I remember a show called "Garrison's Guerrillas" in the late 60s or early 70s.

The Phil Silver's Show was about the Army, even if not WWII.

Barry

>Does anyone have a list of the television shows about WWII from the 50s - 90s?
>
>I could only come up with a few.
>
>Combat! 60s drama
>
>12 O'clock High drama 60s
>
>Hogan's Heros comedy 60s
>
>Rat Patrol 60s drama
>
>Mchale's Navy 60s comedy
>
>Dirty Dozen 80s comedy :) It was really bad and not worth watching! INHO.
>
>I can't think of any more but I sure y'all will let me know what I missed.
>
>H. A. Kurt Luginbyhl
>Scientific Computer Specialist
>National Museum of Natural History
>Washington D.C. 20560
>

Barrett F. Lowe               RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, West Point  (e-mail:  [email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 06:32:35 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German paratroopers dropped sans chutes?

>     A Question.....
>
>Somewhere I read that the Germans dropped paratroopers into the snow out
>of lowflying aircraft on the Russian front sans parachutes.   Is this true?
>

Joshua,

Actually, it was the other way around.  The Russians dropped some paratroops
into deep snow drifts behind German lines during the winter counteroffensive of
1941-42.  This was not a successful experiment.  I'll try to find my reference.

Barry

Barrett F. Lowe               RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, West Point  (e-mail:  [email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 11:56:01 GMT,BST
From:    John Gillies <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German paratroopers dropped sans chutes?

I'm reminded of an anecdote I read (sorry - can't remember where) to
the effect that Himmler was once bragging about how rigorous the
training for his SS was going to be: "They will have to take part in
three combat training exercises in which live ammunition will be
used!"
"Yes," Goering is said to have replied with a straight face - "and
I have decided that all Luftwaffe pilots will have to make three
training jumps - the first two with parachute, the third without!"
John

John Gillies
Department of Psychology
Adam Smith Building
University of Glasgow
Glasgow  G12 8RT                      Tel: (0)41 339 8855 ext.5351
Scotland
                         [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 06:56:29 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Combat! marathon

Hello, All!

Don't forget "Navy Log", a series that aired in the mid-fifties.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 08:24:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: USAAF & USMC Night Fighter Units

Several people have asked me about my references for my posts on the USAAF
and USMC night fighter squadrons so here is what I used:

Data for USAAF night fighter squadrons are from COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR
FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Maxwell AFB, Ala.: USAF Historical Division, Dept of
the Air Force, 1969.  A reprint of this book is avaiable from Smithmark
Publishers, Inc, 16 East 32nd Street, New York, NY 10016, ISBN
0-8317-1801-4.

The major source for data about USMC night fighter squadrons is HISTORY OF
MARINE CORPS AVIATION IN WORLD WAR II, Robert Sherrod, ISBN 0-89141-111-9.
This book was originally published in 1952; the second edition was published
in 1980.  Information about the aircraft used by the USMC is from:

GRUMMAN AIRCRAFT SINCE 1929 by Rene J Francillon, ISBN 0-87021-246-X.  This
book was extremely helpful in determining what squadrons flew what version
of the Hellcat.

LOCKHEED AIRCRAFT SINCE 1913 by Rene J. Francillon, ISBN 0-807021-897-2.

U.S. MILITARY AIRCRAFT DESIGNATIONS AND SERIALS SINCE 1909 compiled by John
M. Andrade, ISBN 0-904597-21-0 (hardback) and ISBN 0-904597-22-0 (soft
cover).  I AM DESPERATELY LOOKING FOR A NEW COPY OF THIS ONE BECAUSE MINE
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LOOKS LIKE IT WENT THROUGH WWII.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

UNITED STATES NAVY AIRCRAFT SINCE 1911, Third Edition by Gordon Swanborough
and Peter M Bowers, ISBN 0-87021-792-5

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 06:58:58 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Combat! marathon

Hello, David!

>           How is the word "gorget" pronounced?

    Gorget is pronounced "gore-zhay".

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 08:25:34 EDT
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German paratroopers dropped sans chutes?

On Thu, 5 May 1994 06:32:35 EDT Lowe Barrett MAJ said:
>>Somewhere I read that the Germans dropped paratroopers into the snow out
>>of lowflying aircraft on the Russian front sans parachutes.   Is this true?
>
>Joshua,
>
>Actually, it was the other way around.  The Russians dropped some paratroops
>into deep snow drifts behind German lines during the winter counteroffensive of
>1941-42.  This was not a successful experiment.  I'll try to find my reference.
It would have been tough.  I imagine the idea is to land spreadeagled on the
back, but then, where does the equipment go?  Also, you can't kill the forward
velocity from a low jump; jump a little higher, and you reach terminal
velocity in atmosphere of roughly 125mph.  Now, if they had first dropped
some of those Hollywood air bags out & made a second pass. . . . (-:

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 08:20:47 -0400
From:    "Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: River Platte (Graf Spee)

The real purpose of the Gref Spee was one at which she succeeded. The
real purpose was to draw the English fleet away from the theatre of
conflict for a period of time to leave the door open, so to speak for
the rest of the German navy to wreak havoc on allied shipping.

Don't forget the Ajax, Achillies and Exeter weren't the only allied vessels
involved. I understand that several other warships were diverted to Uraguay
in the event Langsdorf managed to get by the blockade.

The germans used a similar tactic in WW-I, off the east coast of Africa.

The british were attracted to the big, sacrificial warships of the germans
like moths to a flame. While something may be said about the necessity of
neutralizing enemy warships, sometimes it requires a disporportionate number
of 'our' vessels to do the task. It's easier to tie up warships then to sink
them...

Anybody ever figure that angle yet, or am I unrealistic?
                                                                Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag BUT
STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 08:30:52 EDT
From:    Ken Koester <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Combat! marathon

On Wed, 4 May 1994 17:01:00 -0700 Jim Benn said:
>"The BLUE LIGHT"; about an American turncoat working for the Nazis who
>was  really a spy; Mid 60's.

More precisely, was really an *Allied* spy.  When the series opens, he is the
last surviving member (and director) of his network.

ken koester
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 08:36:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 5 MAY 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
FRIDAY, 5 MAY 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  F-5, Lockheed Lightning
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 15 P-38s hit targets along Tiddim
road; 3 B-25s bomb the Thayaung Airfield area; 80+ P-40s, P-51s, A-36s and
B-25s carry out support of ground forces, hit gun positions and supply dumps,
attack troop concentrations and blast numerous targets of opportunity
throughout the Mogaung Valley; 3 B-25s and 6 fighter-bombers hit an
ammunition dump N of Mohnyin; and 12 P-38s bomb a large warehouse E of Monywa.
6 B-24s lay mines in the harbor off Koh Si Chang Island, Thailand.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): 11 B-24s bomb docks and shipping at Haiphong,
French Indochina. In Burma, P-40s damage bridges at Hsenwi and Wan Pa-Hsa and
hit barracks and destroy several trucks at Kentung. In China, 8 B-25s and 23
fighter-bombers attack the warehouse area at Chiuchiang, causing large fires;
25 Chinese-American Composite Wing (CACW) B-25s and P-40s thoroughly pound
Sinyang marshalling yard and storage area; and 10 P-40s sweep the road from
Loyang to Juchou, claiming 40-50 vehicles and numerous troops destroyed.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 339: 33 of 46 B-24s hit
the V-weapon site at Sottevast, France; 1 B-24 is damaged beyond repair and 6
damaged; 4 airmen are KIA. Escort is provided by 52 P-51s without loss.
  Duing the night, 21 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions; 1 B-24
is lost.
  HQ 95th Combat Bombardment Wing (Heavy) moves from Ketteringham to
Halesworth, England.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): Brigadier General Myron R Wood
assumes command of the IX Air Forces Services Command.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 465th Bombardment Group (Heavy)
with B-24s becomes operational, making a total of 20 heavy bomber groups
operational in the Fifteenth Air Force.
  640+ bombers (the largest force to date) attack targets in Rumania and
Yugoslavia; the B-17s hit marshalling yards at Ploesti/Campina and Brasnov,
Rumania; the B-24s hit the marshalling yard at Ploesti and troop
concentrations at Podgoricu, Yugoslavia; fighters fly 240+ sorties in support.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, A-20s bomb a supply dump
W of Albano Laziale; XII Tactical Air Command A-36s, P-47s and P-40s fly 24
missions cutting rail lines N and NE of Rome, and hitting guns N of the Anzio
beachhead and N of Gaeta and a dump near Frascati; bridges at Orvieto and W
of Lake Bolsena are damaged by direct hits, a barge at San Stefano al Mare is
hit, several trucks destroyed or damaged, rail lines are cut in several
places near Sesti Bagni and aircraft are hit at the Canino landing ground.
  A flight of the 5th Combat Mapping Squadron, 3d Photographic Group
(Reconnaissance), operating from San Severo, Italy returns to base at
Pomigliano, Italy with F-5s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): During the night of 4/5 May
B-24s from Kwajalein Atoll stage through Eniwetok Atoll and bomb Truk Atoll.
During the day B-25s from Eniwetok Atoll strike Ponape Island, and 10 from
Makin Island hit Jaluit and Wotje Atolls, Marshall Islands, using Majuro
Atoll as a rearming base between the attacks.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): In the Solomon Islands, 24
B-25s bomb gun positions at Buka on Buka Island and 34 P-39s hit various
targets on Bougainville and Buka Islands, including buildings at Porton,
Chabai and Kohiso, a pillbox on Pau Island and a road near Tsundawan; supply
area at Chabai is bombed by 12 other P-39s; P-40s bomb buildings at Kieta and
at nearby Rigu Mission. Fighter patrols continue over the N Solomons Islands
and the Bismarck Archipelago.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, B-24s bomb
Mokmer Airfield while B-25s hit supply areas at Wakde Island and along the
coast of Maffin Bay; A-20s and fighter-bombers again pound targets around
Wewak and along the coast of Hansa Bay, hitting supply and personnel areas,
warehouses and occupied villages.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 08:48:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: WWII TV shows

 >Seems to me I remember a show called "The Silent Service" but, I think the
 >it may have been more of a documentary type...
 >
 >Cheers,
 >
 >Gerry

THE SILENT SERVICE was a 30-minute syndicated show; 78 episodes
were produced in 1956-58 and first released in March 1957.  The
series consisted of documentary-style dramas about US subs and all
the stories were based on fact.  The show was the brainchild of
retired Rear Admiral Thomas M. Dykers who retired in 1949 after 22
years in the Navy, most in subs.  The Navy even loaned him the USS
Sawfish for filming.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 07:46:48 EDT
From:    [email-masked]
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Combat! marathon

According to my old Random HouseCollege Dict.  gorget it pronounced goor jit
Apologies from this system that won't allow diacritcals.

H. A. Kurt Luginbyhl
Scientific Computer Specialist
National Museum of Natural History
Washington D.C. 20560

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 09:24:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Combat! marathon

 >On Wed, 4 May 1994 17:01:00 -0700 Jim Benn said:
 >>"The BLUE LIGHT"; about an American turncoat working for the Nazis who
 >>was  really a spy; Mid 60's.
 >
 >More precisely, was really an *Allied* spy.  When the series opens, he is the
 >last surviving member (and director) of his network.
 >
 >ken koester
 >[email-masked]

THE BLUE LIGHT was a spy drama broadcast on ABC on Wednesdays
between 2030 and 2100.  First broadcast was 12 Jan 66; last
broadcast was 31 Aug 66.  The show starred Robert Goulet and
Christine Carere.  It was filmed in Germany and was the story of US
spy David March who posed as a foreign correspondent who had
officially renounced his US citizenship.  Of course that was a
cover story; he was really a spy assigned to a TOP SECRET US
government intelligence organization.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 14:23:00 +0100
From:    "H.G. Henry" <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: COLDITZ

BRITISH 60'S SEREIS ABOUT THE SUPPOSEDLY ESCAPE-PROOF COLDITZ CASTLE

Hugh Henry, St John's College, University of Cambridge

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 09:49:57 -0400
From:    QUACK <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: River Platte (Graf Spee)

Amazing, and all I asked for what happened to the sunken wreck?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 09:52:19 -0400
From:    Kevin Kamphaus <[email-masked]>
Subject: MEDIA: Hunt for the last Nazi's

On either Prime Time tonight or 20/20 tomorrow night (both ABC) they are
having a show about the hunt for the last Nazi's, involving Germany,
Argentina, and I think Spain. Check your local listings. I can't remember
which one is doing the piece.

Kevin Kamphaus
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 09:52:00 EST
From:    Mail Postmaster <[email-masked]>
Subject: Please remove user from list

Please unsubscribe user [email-masked] from this list.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 09:41:41 -0500
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Military/Naval TV shows ... and submarines

What I remember about "Navy Log" is the great theme music, sort
  of like "Patton."  Some of the installments are on video, and
  the one I looked at had Martin Milner, in a pre-Route-66 role.

What I remember about "Silent Service" is the sub coming
  straight up out of the water, at the beginning -- similar to
  the broaching in "Hunt for Red October."

What happens in or to a sub when it performs such a radical
  maneuver.  Does special strength have to be designed into it,
  so that it can do that?

Lou Coatney

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 08:34:34 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German paratroopers dropped sans chutes?

They used to tell this story in Egypt...
        'Seems that a battalion of Ghurkas were required to be sent
quickly to help stem an attack by the Afrika Korps far away in the
desert.  The British Lt. Colonel paraded his Ghurkas, "Men,I am asking
for volunteers for a very desperate, possibly even suicidal, combat
mission. All volunteers, step forward."
        About half the men promptly stepped forward. The LtCol was
quietly furious. "Men, you are Ghurkas! Yet, I ask for you to parachute
behind eny lines, and only half of you volunteer!"
        "Oh, sir," the Ghurka Sergeant Major shouted. "If we're getting
*parachutes* when we jump, then we'll ALL go!"

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 08:48:01 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Hunt for the last Nazi's

Recently, I finished reading a remarkable book:
        "AN EYE FOR AN EYE: The Untold Story Of Jewish Revenge"
                by John Sack, Basic Books, NY.
Tells about numerous individual Jews who went after German war
criminals in 1945, and either killed them or ensured they were
arrested for trial for murder. Excellently written, but painful
to read.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 08:54:36 PST
From:    "Jones, Scott T." <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRV:  entertaining yet useless WWII trivia

     As received over the INTERNET:

     "...in TORA TORA TORA Richard Loo, when interrogating an American
     officer in "Japanese" was really asking him things like "Do you want
     duck sauce with your egg roll?!" in Chinese. (He used to work in a
     Chinese restaurant)"

     As read in "The Best, Worst and Most Unusual" (Fenton and Fowler):

     "MOST UNUSUAL BLITZKRIEG: Students of the OSS, America's wartime
     counterpart to the CIA, may know of its thwarted efforts to sneak
     estrogen into Hitler's salads, thus turning him into a squeeky-voiced
     eunuch. That, however, was not the only attempt to play havoc with the
     Fuhrer's emotional stability. During the early days of the war, an OSS
     staff psychologist theorized that, despite the dictator's now well
     know deviant sexual predilections, Hitler was unwilling to admit to
     himself that pornography was rampant throughout Germany, and that if a
     heavy dose of Aryan lewdness were to be pushed in his face, he would
     suffer a mental breakdown and the leaderless German's would lose the
     war. The plan, then: arm a squadron of RAF fliers with several tons of
     the ripest pornographic art and literature available in Germany, and
     have them drop it on Hitler's home.
        Unfortunately, the plan fell apart, essentially because the RAF
     fliers, ordinarily willing to carry out the orders of their
     government, refused to risk life and limb carpet bombing Adolf Hitler
     with photographs of women copulating with Shetland ponies. The war,
     they said, would have to won through less inventive means"

     MY ADDITION: The above referenced hormone plan consisted of bribing
     Hitler's personal gardener to inject large amounts of Estrogen into
     his carrots. The goal was to have Hitler's mustache fall out and his
     voice become soprano, which would cause the German people to dislike
     him and boot him from power. Needless to say, it did not work. I will
     pass on the details if anyone is interested.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Scott T. Jones                | "They say its automatic, but you
     Dahlgren, VA 22448  USA       |  have to press a button."
     Internet: [email-masked]  |
_____________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 11:11:28 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Hunt for the last Nazi's

Hello, Kevin!

Thanks for the tip. That should be very interesting.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 11:14:41 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Spam in Europe

Hello, All!

I was wondering how may ways there are or were in preparing spam.
Let's see, there are spam-burgers, spam-sandwiches, fried spam,
boiled spam, etc. Any others?

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 11:18:53 -0500
From:    "Louis R. Coatney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: SPAM  :-P

Personally, I find this topic tasteless.

Lou Coatney, Western Illinois University Library ('til 30Jun94)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 11:30:50 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: P-61 Black Widow

Hello, Aldo, Emmanuel, Peter and others!

Sorry for the delay, but I am busy at this time. Here goes with the
next installment.

As enthusiastic as the flight tests were, the problems with as complex
design as the XP-61 began to overwhelm the program. The XP-61 had
been designed and built to incorporate the "Zap" flap: a full-span,
retractable flap. Additionally, the aircraft did not use conventional
ailerons of any type. Problems were soon encountered with too
critical production line tolerances and the test pilot began
reporting unfavorable flying characteristics associated with the
"Zap" flap. As a result, these were replaced with four (2 inboard and
2 outboard) conventional flaps and small ailerons. To augment lateral
control, Northrop developed the "Northrop retractable ailerons", or
wing spoilers. The spoilers were large ventral panels that acted in
conjunction with the ailerons, moving into the air from the upper
wing surface and increasing the aircraft's roll rate.

On 1 Sep 1941, the Army ordered the P-61 into production with an
order for some 150 aircraft under the designation P-61 Black Widow.
This was before the first XP-61 was completed and reflected the
pressing need for night fighters in all theaters of war.

What follows are some brief comments on the YP-61.

Most of the changes ordered by the Army from the test of the XP-61
were incorporated in the 13 service test YP-61s, which began coming
off the assembly line during the early summer of 1943. Externally,
they differed little from the 2 XP-61 prototypes. The major
difference was a change in engines with the P and W R-2800-25s being
replaced by R-2800-10s. The YP-61s were delivered in a flat black
night fighter paint scheme. The Army took delivery of the first YP-61
on 6 Aug 1943 with the last aircraft being delivered by September of
1943 as $649,584.00 per aircraft.

On 12 Feb 1943, the Army ordered an additional 410 P-61s and followed
these with additional orders for some 1200 P-61s to be built by
Northrop at Hawthorne, CA and a second plant which was to be built in
Denver, CO.

More tomorrow.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 13:02:45 -0400
From:    Norrin M Ripsman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Hunt for the last Nazi's

Kevin Kamphaus wrote:
>
> On either Prime Time tonight or 20/20 tomorrow night (both ABC) they are
> having a show about the hunt for the last Nazi's, involving Germany,
> Argentina, and I think Spain. Check your local listings. I can't remember
> which one is doing the piece.
>
> Kevin Kamphaus
> [email-masked]
> [email-masked]
>

I think it's Prime Time tonight.

Norrin M. Ripsman

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 13:02:38 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: German paratroopers dropped sans chutes?

Sidney,

Seems this story is traditional folklore in the Army.
I read this in John Master's book, BUGLES AND A TIGER.

Barry

>They used to tell this story in Egypt...
>        'Seems that a battalion of Ghurkas were required to be sent
>quickly to help stem an attack by the Afrika Korps far away in the
>desert.  The British Lt. Colonel paraded his Ghurkas, "Men,I am asking
>for volunteers for a very desperate, possibly even suicidal, combat
>mission. All volunteers, step forward."
>        About half the men promptly stepped forward. The LtCol was
>quietly furious. "Men, you are Ghurkas! Yet, I ask for you to parachute
>behind eny lines, and only half of you volunteer!"
>        "Oh, sir," the Ghurka Sergeant Major shouted. "If we're getting
>*parachutes* when we jump, then we'll ALL go!"
>

Barrett F. Lowe               RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, West Point  (e-mail:  [email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 13:40:11 -0400
From:    Steven VEST <[email-masked]>
Subject: [TRIV] Costal defense guns

> UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
>              PT-247, by coastal defense gun, Solomon Islands
>               area,
>               06 d. 38' s., 156 d. 01' E.
> Theron P. Keller

   This is an interesting little tidbit.  Does anyone have an offhand
idea of how common it was for a naval vessel to be sunk by a coastal
defense gun?

==========================[email-masked]===========================
= Steven Vest: Head, Off Campus Lib. Services: Nova University, Ft. Ldl, FL =
=  Baby if you want to dance.  You gotta pay the band!                     =
=                                   Michael Stanley Band: Heartland        =
================No statements made here reflect Nova University==============

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 15:11:50 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: machine guns vs cannons.

The only real person who makes the decision is the designer, who calls
the gun either a machine gun or a cannon.  I myself like the definition
I posted before about 20mm and up being a cannon, and smaller being
a machine gun, but as another member said that there have been 15mm
cannons, and their have also probably been machine guns larger than 20mm,
but it seems a nice place to divide them.

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 15:09:56 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: River Platte (Graf Spee)

Steve, you might be right in the specific, but it is a very costly
use of an expensive warship.  The entire British fleet was not drawn off,
only a fraction, while the rest of the navy still sat outside the
German Navy and kept them from escaping into the Atlantic.  The
idea of using a surface ship as a commerce raider, and a slow one at
that, is not really a useful naval or military advantage.  The Graf
Spee was hunted down and eleminated without the loss of a single
warship, except for damage to some cruisers, which to the British
symbolized a small use of naval strength, while to the Germans this
was one of their few capital warships, outside of the Graf Spee
class 'pocket battleship' Germany had two battleships, Bismark class,
and two battlecruisers.  The manpower, expertise, and stell used in
her construction would probably been better spent on Uboats before
the war, for early in the war is when they had their greatest
advantage.  If the war had been delayed til the entire naval building
plan was finished, they might have been important as a naval
threat to shipping because of the other heavier German warships tying
down the British fleet, but as it was there were never enough Germna
fleet units to tie down a significant number of British units, so
the British units that had the speed went after the Graf Spee, and
the British battlecruiser captains were probably dying to lob some
15" shells into one of the slow 'pocket battleship'

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 15:38:23 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TRIV] Costal defense guns

>
> > UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
> >              PT-247, by coastal defense gun, Solomon Islands
> >               area,
> >               06 d. 38' s., 156 d. 01' E.
> > Theron P. Keller
>
>
>    This is an interesting little tidbit.  Does anyone have an offhand
> idea of how common it was for a naval vessel to be sunk by a coastal
> defense gun?

I don't know how common it was, but the Polish defenses at Danzig gave the
Kriegsmarine hell.  The defenders were even somewhat recognized by the Germans
for their skill and heroism.

During the Falklands Island War, a Royal Marine recoilless rifle section
severely damaged and nearly sank and Argentine corvette(?).  The ship had to
return to the mainland for extensive repairs.

I believe that this story was published in "International Defense Review".

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 15:46:08 -0400
From:    "J.M.Ruel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Combat! marathon

I think there could have been one called " Sharkey USN " with Don Rickles.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 15:19:27 -0500
From:    "Robert J. Granvin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: SPAM  :-P

In message World War II Discussion List writes:
> Personally, I find this topic tasteless.

I'd say it's more in bad taste... :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 13:33:11 +0100
From:    John Behrens <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Question: Cannon/Machine Gun

I once read a quote by a German fighter pilot that went something like this:

"In the time it takes me to blow him up (a US fighter) with my cannon, he
can cut me in half with his machine gun."

Thought that was kind of interesting.

                                        John

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 17:57:30 -0400
From:    Walter O'Hara <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Combat! marathon

That was "CPO Sharkey" and it was set in the 70s (e.g. "present day" back
then).

Walt O'Hara
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

On Thu, 5 May 1994, J.M.Ruel wrote:

> I think there could have been one called " Sharkey USN " with Don Rickles.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 15:13:32 -0700
From:    Patrick Charles <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: MEDIA: Combat! marathon

        I think it was called "CPO Sharkey" and it did star Don Rickles.
I also think it was about the U.S. Navy during the 1970's.

        Patrick J. Charles

On Thu, 5 May 1994, J.M.Ruel wrote:

> I think there could have been one called " Sharkey USN " with Don Rickles.
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 15:44:24 -0700
From:    Jim Benn <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TRIV] Costal defense guns

Didn't the coastal defense guns at Wake Island turn back a Japanese
landing attempt and sink/damage some vessels?
I'm not sure; can somebody enlighten?

Jim Benn.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 16:27:42 -0700
From:    Gerry Walker <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: machine guns vs cannons.

Interesting article in the April issue of Air International about gun develop-
ment for aviation...there is apparently now a cannon of 12.7 m.m. I guess that
this is an issue which will never be settled to everyone's satisfaction.

Cheers,

Gerry

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 May 1994 09:31:51 +1000
From:    George PISZCZUK <[email-masked]>
Subject: D-Day Decoy

        I understand that an elaborated plan was devised to create a phantom
invasion force by using decoys.

        I believe that a number of radar stations were left intact prior to
the invasion so that they could see the echoes of a number of small ships,
barage balloons, and aircraft. Aircraft, from a number of squadrons,
including the famous 617 Squadron, dropped window material to to created the
illusion that a substantial fleet was approaching the Pas de Calais. It
appears that shore batteries, aiming 12-shells by radar preditions, actually
opened fire on the ghost fleet.

        How was it that the aircraft, which must have been travelling at 200
hundred miles an hour, were not detected by the radar?  Even if the radar
was in it early stages of development I would have thought night fighters
would have sent to investigate.

  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  George Piszczuk                          Email: [email-masked]
  University of Newcastle                  Phone: (049) 215440
  Australia                                Fax  : (049) 216907
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 19:26:39 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Sir Dr. Archibald McIndoe

I would like to communicate with someone in England to ask a few questions
about Dr. McIndoe, a surgeon during WWII.

I would appreciate the help very much.

  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic. |    economic, social, political     |
  |                                  |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |                                  |  B-25 in WWII.                     |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 21:07:14 -0400
From:    "Mark A. Campbell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: (Graf Spee)

Regarding the use of the Graf Spee as a decoy:

She was NOT being used as a decoy; her mission was to hunt down and destroy
as many allied merchantmen as possible, tie up as many allied warships as
possible, but NOT to get caught or sunk herself.  It is wise to remember that
in August 1939 the 3 "Pocket Battleships" of the Kriegsmarine formed the
MAJORITY of that navy's large (cruiser-class) warship strength.  The two
German Battlecruisers Sharnhorst and Gneisnau were barely operational (not
fully worked up), and of the eventual 3 heavy cruisers, I believe only one
had been fully worked up.  The Germans had some obsolescent light cruisers
and destroyers, and THAT's IT (aside from the submarines, of course); thus
it would have made no sense for the Germans to have "sacrificed" one of
their few capital ship units in return for . . . what?

It may be useful to remember that when the PB's were designed and built (c.
1932-1935), the 3rd generation battleships (i.e., post-Washington Treaty)
battleships had not yet appeared, and the only ships which could both
outgun *and* outrun the PB's were the 3 BR. battlecruisers (Hood, Repulse,
Renown), and the three extant Japanese fast BBs (Kongo, Haruna, Kirishima)
(Hiei had been demilitarized according to the provisions of the London
Treaty).  Thus the PB's looked like considerably better bargains in 1932
than they actually turned out to be in 1939.  That's the advance of
technology for you!

                                    Sincerely
                                    Mark A. Campbell

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 5 May 1994 21:17:20 -0400
From:    "Mark A. Campbell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Japanese Interwar CV Air Group Compositions:

Dear all WWII subscribers:
    I have scoured the literature looking for information on the precise
composition of Japanese Carrier air groups.  I believe I have hit all the
standard, and some not-so-standard, English-language sources, but there
may be some I have missed.  In addition, some subscribers may have access
to Japanese-language sources I cannot work with (due to lack of Japanese!)

I would deeply appreciate any information you can  send me.  Thanks.

A Sampling of Sources Already Consulted:

1.  Samuel Eliot Morison, _United States Naval Operations in WW2_ (15 vols.)

2.  John Lundstrom, _The First Team_ (truly excellent work).

3.  Fuchida and ? (forget 2nd name), _Midway_.

4.  Paul Dull, _A Battle History of the Imperial Japanese Navy in WW2_

5.  (authors forgotten), _Japanese Naval Aces and Fighter Units in WW2_

6.  Rene Francillon, _Japanese Aircraft of WW2_

Some of the titles above are paraphrased, because I can't get to my
computerized bibliography while I'm typing this message, and I didn't plan
to send out this message until I got the impulse while replying to another
message!  Sorry for the imprecision.  Hope you can help.

                                    Sincerely,
                                    Mark A. Campbell

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 4 May 1994 to 5 May 1994
***********************************************