Subject: WWII-L Digest - 1 May 1994 to 2 May 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 May 1994 07:52:33 -0400

There are 42 messages totalling 1329 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Tirpitz
  2. Schindler's List (3)
  3. Re[2]: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44 (4)
  4. WEAP: Weird Weapons (5)
  5. INF: USAAF 2 MAY 44
  6. Martin B-10 in SWPA
  7. US nightfighters
  8. USAAF: D-DAY
  9. TAC: River Platte (Graf Spee) (5)
 10. Toland's "INFAMY"
 11. P-61 Black Widow
 12. night fighters and attack aircraft
 13. INF: USAAF 28 APR 44 (now nightfighters)
 14. ULTRA in BARAROSSA (4)
 15. Smooth bore guns
 16. Question: Cannon/Machine Gun
 17. INF: USAAF 28 APR 44
 18. D-Day (2)
 19. INF: USN Chronology 2 May 1944
 20. Blitzkrieg France 1940
 21. German Navy 1936
 22. INF: USN Chronologies
 23. Spam in Europe
 24. MOnte Cassino
 25. Bomber Crewman survives (fighter pilot too)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 1 May 1994 22:52:31 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Tirpitz

BILL ELY..
        For solid information about the tunneling at Stalag Luft III,
see THE GREAT ESCAPE, by Paul Brickhill. Very authentic. Published
soon after the actual events, with first-hand accounts of the RAF/RCAF
participants. I knew Wally Floody (he died a few years ago), who had
been a hard-rock miner in Northern Ontario before he joined the RCAF.
Wally planned the Stalag Luft III tunnel, and helped excavate it. He
later was the technical advisor on the movie version. (You should have
heard his language whenever mention was made of that fictional Steve
McQueen USAAF character in he movie!  :-)  )  Anyway, Wally Floody
spoke highly of the Brickhill book, especially for the way it captured
the actual atmosphere in the Stalag at the time.
Regards.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 18:45:26 +1000
From:    Richard Ashley John Tidyman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Schindler's List

Hello WWII-L,

        Being a new subscriber I don't know of you have already gone over
this, but what did people on WWII-L think of Spielberg's Schindler's List.
I thought that it was gripping (all three and a bit hours of it).

Best Wishes,

*************************
Richard Tidyman
School of History
Macquarie University
NSW 2109 Australia
*************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 12:06:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44

> I am currently posting privately some info on this aircraft. It is my

Terry, I am very interrested in this kind of information and I
suppose a lot of others are, please post it to the list.
Peter de Lange

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 06:25:41 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

Steve,

The device is a Bangalore Torpedo.  Each section of pipe is filled with
explosive.  You slide the sections of pipe together through a barbed
wire fence and then blow it up. This clears a lane in the barbed wire so the
troops can move through the obstacle.

Bear

>In the movie "The Big Red One" the troops landing at Normandy had to setup
>a large pipe-like weapon for some purpose not made clear in the movie. The
>device seemed to be a series of pipe 2.5 or so inches in diameter that had
>to be screwed into each other to form a long tube. I think it shot off some
>explosive or something.
>
>The commentator mentioned wanting to meet "the asshole that invented it".
>
>Does anybody know what that was, and how it operated, how many were used,
>under what conditions, etc.?
>
>Sounds wierd enough to me...
>
>Thanx                                                           Steve
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Steven E. Pudlo  - [email-masked] |"Life may be a drag BUT
>STC Programmer/Analyst - (203) 885-2343  |  it sure beats the only
>Three Rivers Community-Technical College |           known alternative"
>574 New London Turnpike                  |                     (S.E.P.)
>Norwich, CT. U.S.A. 06360                |No one gets out of it alive..
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Barrett F. Lowe               RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, West Point  (e-mail:  [email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 06:27:41 EDT
From:    Lowe Barrett MAJ <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

Alan,

This device is called a Fuel-Air Explosive.

Bear

>Now,... this is definitely off topic, but does anyone know the name
>of the weapon/shell used in Desert Storm to crush/collapse the Iraqi
>tunnels and bunkers? It detonated into a petro-checmical ring of fluid
>about 100' off the ground and ignited around the edge to burn inward
>with a concussion that was said, on CNN, to be equivalent to a tac-nuke.
>
>Does anyone know of this device?
>
>(Sorry for the off topic, Big Joe, but my curiosity has got me here.)
>
>-Alan
>
>"Woof woof woof. That's my other dog impression." -Sutherland
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Alan Wild, LAN Mgr.  Father of 1.5             Voice:          (401) 792-2611
>ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
>Kingston, RI  02881                            Bitnet:           AWild@URIACC
>                                               Internet: [email-masked]
>Murphy's First Two Political Principles:
>1. No matter what they're telling you, it's not the whole truth.
>2. No matter what they're talking about, they're talking about money.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Barrett F. Lowe               RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
MAJ, IN
Dept of Physics, West Point  (e-mail:  [email-masked])

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 07:07:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USAAF 2 MAY 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
TUESDAY, 2 MAY 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  B-26, Martin Marauder
  P-39, Bell Airacobra
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

AMERICAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  CARIBBEAN (Sixth Air Force): 10th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), VI
Bomber Command, begins a movement from France Field, Canal Zone to the US
where it will be disbanded on 17 Jun 44.

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): 3 B-24s claim 2 freighters sunk in the S end
of Formosa Straits.

  EASTERN AIR COMMAND (EAC): Troop Carrier Command, until this date a major
subordinate component of EAC, is placed under Third Tactical Air Force,
another EAC component.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 335: 50 of 50 B-24s bomb
V-weapon sites in the Pas de Calais area of France without loss; escort is
provided by 50 P-47s and 52 P-51s.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 250+ B-26s and A-20s bomb
marshalling yards at Busigny, Valenciennes and Blanc-Misseron, France. 400+
P-47s and P-51s dive-bomb airfields and marshalling yards in France and the
Low Countries.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 250+ bombers hit targets in
Italy; B-17s hit the marshalling yard at Bolzano; B-24s, most with fighter
escort, attack Castel Maggiore and a railroad bridge at Faenza; 300+ bombers
are forced to abort because of weather.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, attacks against rail
lines and bridges in N Italy continue; medium bombers bomb an approach to a
bridge in N Oriveto, bridges in S Ficulle and in Marsciano, and marshalling
yards in Florence/Campo di Marte and W and NW Florence; light bombers hit
an ammunition dump NE of Rome; P-40s and P-47s hit rail lines N of Rome,
bridges SW of Rome, guns N of Anzio, a road at Montefiascone, a road bridge
at Cecina, trucks and planes at Malignano landing ground and several other
dumps, roads, and rail lines in N Italy.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): B-24s, staging through Eniwetok
Atoll, Marshall Islands from Kwajalein Atoll, Marshall Islands, bomb Truk
Atoll, Caroline Islands, during the night. During the day B-25s based on
Makin Island hit Jaluit and Wotje Atolls, Marshall Islands, using Majuro
Atoll, Marshall Islands as a shuttle base to rearm between strikes. B-25s
from Engebi Island, Eniwetok Atoll pound Ponape Island, Caroline Islands.

SOUTH PACIFIC AREA (SOPAC, Thirteenth Air Force): On Bougainville Island,
22 P-39s bomb a village N of Kieta, airstrip and buildings of Koromira and
Rigu Missions and 8 P-40s also hit the Kieta area. On New Britain Island,
fighter sweeps over the Rabaul area continue; fighter-bombers hit the
Vunakambi Plantation supply area with incendiaries and B-25s pound the Talili
area.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA (SWPA, Fifth Air Force): In New Guinea, 140+ A-20s and
fighter-bombers hit bridges, barges, gun positions, roads, personnel,
supplies, huts and tent areas from Wewak to Hansa Bay throughout the day; 2
B-25s bomb airfields at Wewak and Boram; 8 others hit Wakde Island oil
stores, huts, AA positions, trucks, and other targets of opportunity; and
the airfield on Biak Island is bombed by 2 B-24s.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 07:25:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Martin B-10 in SWPA

Last week, Jorge Merino asked about the use of Martin B-10s by the
USAAF in World War II.  Several people responded with information
about use of the Martin Model 139, export version of the B-10, by
the Netherlands East Indies Air Force early in the war.  One of
these aircraft, a Model 139WH-3A, made it to Australia and was
"drafted" (conscripted) by the USAAF in Jul 42 as an RB-10-MA in the
restricted category; on 8 Oct 42, the aircraft was assigned the USAAF
serial number 42-68358.  I have a source that states that this
aircraft was used by the USAAF in the Southwest Pacific Area until
Aug 44 and was subsequently ferried from Australia to an unknown
location (I assume the USA) with the ferry registration "NC139."

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 14:10:00 CET
From:    Peter de Lange <[email-masked]>
Subject: US nightfighters

Here some data about US nightfighter squdrons.

P-70 in service with 6 NFS, 418 NFS, 419 NFS, 421 NFS and together with
     the P-39 in 24 FS at Panama.
     Total number off kills was 2.

P-61 in service with
     5 AF, 418 NFS, 421 NFS, 547 NFS, 550 NFS
     7 AF,   6 NFS, 548 NFS, 549 NFS
     9 AF, 422 NFS, 425 NFS
    12 AF, 414 NFS, 415 NFS
    13 AF, 419 NFS
    14 AF, 426 NFS
           427 NFS, transferred from Italy to India
    a crew of 418 NFS had the record of 5 kills.

P-38M in service with 451 NFS, 547 NFS and 550 NFS.
    In the Pacific were 2 x P-38F converted with SCR540 radar.
    Later the same with 3 x P-38J models.
    This were all single seaters, but it seemed two full-tasks,
    pilot and operator so 1 x P-38L as twoseater with AN/APS-6 radar.
    This was successfull and Lockheed was asked to convert
    75 x P-38L into P-38M.
    The P-38M speed was 406 mph, compared with 369 mph of the P-61
    The P-38M became operational the last few days of the war
    in the Pacific area and succeeded the P-61 in a few squadrons.
Peter de Lange

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 08:15:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: USAAF: D-DAY

FROM THE AIR FORCE NEWS AGENCY

Part I
052.  Army Air Forces and the Normandy Invasion, 1 Apr - 12 Jul 44
053.  D-Day remembered
                             &    &    &
                             &    &    &
                             &    &    &
052.  Army Air Forces and the Normandy Invasion, 1 Apr - 12 Jul 44
12, 1944
by Frederick J. Shaw
     On 1 Apr 44, more than 10,000 British and American aircraft within range
of western European targets began operations in support of Operation Overlord,
the Allied invasion of Nazi-occupied Europe set for early June.
     Preparatory efforts consisted of isolating and weakening the Nazi
defenses on the coast of Normandy.  Over the next two months, American B-24
and B-17 heavy bombers, B-26 medium bombers, and P-47 and P-51 fighters, and
RAF aircraft struck transportation targets in France, Belgium and Germany.
Their raids ended daylight railroad traffic in France and rendered impassable
critical Seine River crossings below Paris leading to Normandy.
     Denying the skies to the German air force was as important as denying
roads to the German army.  Although few German aircraft were based within a
350-mile combat radius of Normandy, they might deploy to approximately 100
empty bases within this radius.  During the last three weeks before D-Day,
Allied heavy bombers, medium bombers, and fighters struck vacant airfields
throughout France, hitting more targets outside the 350-mile radius than
within it to avoid disclosure of the invasion area.
     The Allies rendered the enemy bases within range of Normandy incapable of
sustaining major operations.  Allied heavy and medium bombers employed similar
deceptions while damaging coastal batteries guarding the invasion beaches.
During early June, Allied reconnaissance aircraft photographed the invasion
area from various altitudes and distances.
     The invasion of Normandy began before dawn on June 6 (D-Day) when 900
aircraft and 100 gliders of the IX Troop Carrier Command dropped the 101st
and 82d Airborne divisions behind enemy lines.  As Eighth and Ninth Air Force
P-38s covered convoys approaching the Normandy beaches, more than 2,300 B-17
and B-24 heavy bombers loosed 2,944 tons of bombs on coastal batteries and
other shore defenses.  B-26s and fighters supplemented the work of the heavies,
also attacking transportation targets and airfields.  Later in the day, the
heavy bombers struck major choke points close to the invasion beaches.
     Forward air controllers landing with the infantry directed fighter-
bombers to enemy targets with pinpoint accuracy.  Other fighter bombers flew
armed reconnaissance against trucks, armor, and troop concentrations.
Advancing under this friendly canopy, the Allied armies placed the invasion
beaches beyond the range of enemy artillery, obtained room for maneuver, and
linked their beachheads by mid-June.
     The D-Day effort of the Army Air Forces and its Allies was one of the
mightiest demonstrations of air power.  Nearly 13,000 aircraft, 8,722 of them
American, directly supported the invasion.  Their work yielded impressive
results.  Allied air superiority was so overwhelming that only three German
fighters challenged the invasion convoys.  An additional 12 German fighter
bombers sortied against the invasion beaches, most jettisoning their bombs
as Allied fighters intercepted them.
     The interdiction of the transportation network delayed the timely arrival
of German reinforcements.  One German commander described the route over which
his armor traveled as a "racecourse" for American fighter bombers.  Forced to
travel in small units over secondary roads at night, German divisions arrived
in the battle area exhausted, disorganized, and demoralized.  Unable to drive
the Allies from the beaches, the German army now faced an unequal, two-front
war against powerful foes.  (Shaw is a historian with the Air Force Research
Agency, Maxwell AFB, Alabama)
                             &    &    &
                             &    &    &
                             &    &    &
053.  D-Day remembered
by TSgt. David P. Masko
     It is appropriate that after 50 years, Vito Pedone should return to
Normandy for the anniversary of D-Day.
     In 1944, Pedone was 22 and a captain in the Army Air Forces.  He
completed pilot training a few months after the attack on Pearl Harbor, and
prior to D-Day was directing C-47 "pathfinder" training for the Ninth Air
Force in England.
     On 6 Jun 44, Pedone and Lieutenant Colonel Joel Crouch, led the tactical
beginning for the liberation of Europe.  Their mission was to cross the enemy
coast on the west shore of the Cherbourg Peninsula, France at 0006 hours on 6
Jun.  At 0016 hours, their C-47 dropped 18 paratroopers on Normandy beach.
     The specially trained crews of airborne infantry set up radio
navigational aids on six drop zones, along with marker lights to guide the
main column of assault planes.
     Pedone said the weather varied throughout the operation, but overall it
was favorable.  Air Force historical reports say the "pathfinders" had no
way of knowing what to expect from the Germans who guarded the Normandy
beaches with heavy defenses.
     Today, Pedone still has a dauntless air about him.  At 74, the retired
Air Force colonel -- who served in three wars and completed 35 years on
active duty -- is the owner of a successful wine import company in Arlington,
Virginia.
     But wine is not on Pedone's mind these days.  He's more interested in
plans for the second Normandy invasion; when he and other veterans will
return to France and celebrate the 50th anniversary.
     Tall, with an easy smile, Pedone says World War II is still a vivid
experience.
     On the eve of D-Day, moonlight flooded the cockpit where Pedone and
Crouch readied their C-47.  Like everybody else on the English airfield,
Pedone was looking at his watch and waiting for the signal to go.
     "As we neared the English Channel, I remember turning the planes lights
off," Pedone said.  "We stayed dark until we hit the drop zones and were
headed back over England."
     Following Pedone and Crouch was an armada of 1,500 other C-47s and a
couple hundred gliders.  The task of this advance invasion party was to mark
drop zones in a 55-mile-square area on the Cherbourg Peninsula behind Utah
beach for the 82nd and 101st Airborne Division paratroopers.
     During the early hours of Operation Overlord, 18,000 airborne troops
would be dropped from planes and land in gliders brought to the drop zones
by a never ending stream of C-47 transport aircraft.
     All over England, state historical records, people watched the airplanes
in wave after wave passing overhead.
     During the assault, 8th Air Force bombers were neutralizing the coastal
defenses and attacking German front-line troops.  Other missions were
directed at severing communication lines between the beachhead defenders and
reserve elements.
     Meanwhile, fighter operations over the battle area became the
responsibility of the Ninth Air Force and the RAF 2nd Tactical Air Force.
     According to Air Force history reports, Pedone and other C-47 pathfinder
crews swept in over the targets so fast that the Germans at first thought
they were fighter planes.  Surprised by the suddenness of the attack, the
German missed their opportunity to shoot down many of the C-47s.
     Pedone remembers seeing explosions and streams of tracer bullets all
around his aircraft.
     "Many of our transport pilots worked in the airlines before the war...
up until D-Day they'd never seen combat before," said Pedone with a
compassionate, yet troubled look.
     "You have no time to think about the big picture -- D-Day," he said.
"You think about the people in your plane and do your job.  There's no time
to be scared.
     "But if you are afraid, you might as well get right out of the (expletive)
airplane and go back to the BAQ because you must take control of your senses."
     Pedone explains that a pilot who experiences combat is "always
anticipating," and must keep a positive attitude.  "Only when you get back
and sit down can you be scared and say what (expletive) happened?"
     After Pedone and Crouch finished their pathfinder mission, they were
ordered back to London.  With all Allied aircraft ready and invasion troops
on their ships, Supreme Allied Commander General Dwight D. Eisenhower wanted
a first-hand assessment of the conditions on Normandy beach.
     "We reported to Eisenhower and told him the pathfinders did their job,
and explained what we saw," Pedone said.
     After seeing Eisenhower, Pedone and Crouch got their C-47 back in the
invasion line so they could carry more troops to the invasion beaches.
     Prior to their D-Day assault, Eisenhower had told the C-47 aircrews and
grease-painted paratroopers that "the eyes of the world are on you tonight."
     Air Force history records show how all Allied aircraft were painted with
"invasion stripes" of alternating black and white bands completely around
fuselages and wings.  Pedone said the stripes on his C-47 and other aircraft
would easily identify them as friendly to ships and troops below.
     He said both the aircraft markings and the pathfinders lighting the
beaches were important because of lessons learned from previous invasions.
For example, during the Sicilian invasion, U.S. forces had tragic losses due
to friendly fire and missed drop zones.
     Although there were some mistakes with airborne landings on D-Day,
history records it as a huge success.  In fact, Air Force history states
aircraft losses as "not inordinately high."
     Of the 821 troop carriers dispatched, 805 reached their dropping zone
and 21 were lost.  Of the 104 tugs and gliders, all but one reached the
landing zone and only two aircraft tugs were lost.
     From the outbreak of World War II in September 1939 and the subsequent
enslavement of most of Europe by Nazi Germany, an invasion of western Europe
leading to the complete defeat of Germany had been a prized goal of Great
Britain.  It also became a goal of the United States when it entered the war
in December 1941.
     The purpose of Overlord was simple, state history reports.  The goal was
to free Europe of Nazi forces. Now, 50 years later, the anniversary of this
"unanimity of purpose" is celebrated.
     But for Pedone, surrounded by artifacts and photographs of D- Day in his
comfortable home, the anniversary is bittersweet because many of his war
buddies are gone.
     "A lot of the people I used to serve with have died," said Pedone, who
was a friend of General Curtis E. LeMay, one of the D-Day planners.
     Pedone is especially mournful for his wife, Geraldine, who died a few
years ago.  He met and married Geraldine when she was a second lieutenant
serving in England.
     "She was a nurse and assigned to the 806th Air Evacuation Squadron...
her squadron was the first to support the buildup for the war."
     Although saddened by losses of family and friends, Pedone's philosophy
is to move on and be thankful.  For example, he said he's thankful to the Air
Force for giving him a rewarding career.
     "When I was growing up in New York City in the 1930s, the only choice I
had for an education, being a minority, was to be a gangster, a priest or a
musician -- in that order."
     Pedone went to music school for two years, which at the time, was enough
college to become an aviation cadet with the Army Air Corps.
     "After I was commissioned, we went from a few thousand to almost a
million people.  In those days you'd fly one mission as a first lieutenant and
in a few months you'd be a lieutenant colonel."
     Although Pedone did make rank fast during World War II, he didn't put on
full colonel until his 12th year of service.
     "It was only because of World War II that we developed all the concepts,
the traditions, the historical data, the heroes that we honor today," he said.
     "This war was the legacy of the Air Force tradition.  It's the basis of
the Air Force and how we split off from the Army."
     He went on to explain the importance of D-Day in this context and
challenged Air Force people to keep this history alive.
     For Pedone, and other World War II veterans in their twilight years, the
D-Day anniversary might be their last great assembly.  (Masko is assigned to
Air Force News Service in the Pentagon)
--

      // \\
    //     \\                    Air Force News Agency
   |         |              Kelly Air Force Base, Texas, USA
   \  CMSgt  /      ___________________ /____________________________________
   \  Mike   /
   \ Bergman /
     \     /

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 14:55:52 +0200
From:    Bengt Nilsson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: River Platte (Graf Spee)

>Yes, the significance of Capt Langsdorff making the Nazi raised-arm salute
>reflects the official Nazification of the German Navy that early (1939)
>in WW2.
>Capt Langsdorff was following the offcial leadership credo of Admiral
>Doenitz, who frequently circulated his reminder that: "It is nonsense
>to say that the soldier or officer must be non-political. The soldier or
>sailor embodies the State in which he lives; he is its representative,
>the outspoken advocate of the States. Therefore. he has to stand behind
>this State with all his might."

Thus wrote Sidney Allinson.

Isn't the truth that Capt. Langsdorff didn't make the Nazi salute. I am
right now looking at the picture from the funeral mentioned earlier and
its showing him making the usual military salute.

If I'm not mistaken that's also what Capt Lindemann did just before the
Bismarck sank.

So I'm sure the nazification was not as complete as Sidney Allinson seems
to suggest.

Bengt Nilsson
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 14:59:00 CET
From:    Fred van Wetten <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44

> Hello, Scott!
>
> I am currently posting privately some info on this aircraft. It is my
> intention to answer questions such as yours, also radar development,
> and anything else associated with the development of the P-61. Are
> you interested? If you are, I will post all my info to the list. It
> will be lengthy and will take time, but if you want it I will post it
> to the list.
>
> Please advise.
>
> Terry
>
> Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
> P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
> fax 806-371-5370

I, for one, would greatly apprieciate the info Terry.

Kind regards, Fred.

Fred van Wetten           Netadress:[email-masked]
CRI, instituut voor telecommunicatie en computerdienstverlening
RijksUniversiteit Leiden, PO BOX 9512, 2300 RA LEIDEN, The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)71 276933     Fax: +31 (0)71 276967

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 09:00:34 -0400
From:    QUACK <[email-masked]>
Subject: Toland's "INFAMY"

On Page 255 Safford says that he didn't prove the "winds execute" existed.
I'm confused,as he tried to convince the Congressional hearings that the
message was received in Washington and decoded in plenty of time to warn
him at Pearl Harbor.
Much has been made of this message and I'm wondering why it has been given
so much attention in other books and at the time (1946) nobody wanted to
say it existed.
Comments please.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 19:58:47 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

On Fri, 29 Apr 1994, Steven Pudlo, Dept. Computer Svcs. wrote:

> In the movie "The Big Red One" the troops landing at Normandy had to setup
> a large pipe-like weapon for some purpose not made clear in the movie. The
> device seemed to be a series of pipe 2.5 or so inches in diameter that had
> to be screwed into each other to form a long tube. I think it shot off some
> explosive or something.
>
> The commentator mentioned wanting to meet "the asshole that invented it".
>
> Does anybody know what that was, and how it operated, how many were used,
> under what conditions, etc.?
>
It was called a Bangalore Torpedo.  I don't know how it got the name but
it was designed to blow holes in barbed wire obstacles (and maybe bunkers
and mine fields).  About this I am not sure, but I think one could
assemble it from one or more of each of the explosive and non-explosive
sections.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 07:06:04 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: P-61 Black Widow

Hello, Aldo, Emmanuel and others!

Here goes with the next installment of info on the P-61.

During late Nov 1940, the design reverted to its original 3 man/twin
rudder/vertical stabilizer configuration. The Air Corps wanted more
firepower and directed that the lower fuselage gun turret be replaced
by 4 wing-mounted 20MM cannon. This proposal was submitted on 5 Dec
1940. With some minor changes, the Northrup NS-8A proposal met all
the Army's requirements and a Letter of Authority For Purchase was
issued to Northrup on 17 Dec 1940 with a formal contract calling for
2 experimental aircraft and 2 small scale models of the proposed
aircraft (not to exceed $1,367,000) awarded on 10 Jan 1941. The
contract assigned the military designation XP-61.

With the award of the experimental contract, Northrup began work on
the first prototype. The prototype was immediately followed (on 10
Mar 1941) with a second contract calling for 13 YP-61 service test
aircraft. The XP-61 aircraft was powered by two 2000 hp Pratt and
Whitney R-2800-25S air-cooled, radial engines equipped with 2-stage,
2 speed mechanical superchargers. It was felt that turbosuperchargers
were not needed for the XP-61's proposed mission, even though the
addition of turbosupercharger would have added about 50 mph in top
speed and 10,000 feet to the aircraft's ceiling.

On 2 April 1941, the Aircraft Mockup Board met at Northrup to review
the XP-61 mockup. As a result of their review, several changes were
made to the aircraft. The wing guns were relocated to the underside
of the fuselage, flame arrestors were added to the engine exhausts
and some of the radio equipment was relocated. With the removal fo
the guns and ammunition from the wings, the capacity of the wing fuel
tanks was increased from 540 to 646 gallons. Additionally, the board
required that provision be made for the use of external fuel tanks.

That is is it for today. Will post more tomorrow. The question was
asked just as the employment of the three-man crew. There was a
pilot, radar operator and turret gunner/operator.

    I will be posting combat info, squadrons, commanders, other
performance data on this aircraft. Will also discuss its use after
WWII.

 More later.

 Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 08:55:56 CDT
From:    Robert Hohlt <[email-masked]>
Subject: night fighters and attack aircraft

Bob Smart wrote:

> The Navy even tried having an entire carrier air group of night operative
> aircraft, both fighters and strike aircraft. I beleive the concept was tried
> out on the Enterprise in late '44 or early '45. I think an Independence class
> CVL was tried also, forming an entire Task Group for night ops.

You can include the U.S.S. Saratoga in that late '44 or early '45 group
as well.  That is, in-between its many torpedoings.

Peter de Lange gave us a USAAF squadron and kill tally.

Peter,

Do you have any information on the records of the carrier based night
fighters and attack aircraft?

Robert Hohlt, Jr.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 21:01:22 +0700
From:    "Peter E. Beal" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Schindler's List

On Mon, 2 May 1994, Richard Ashley John Tidyman wrote:

> Hello WWII-L,
>
>         Being a new subscriber I don't know of you have already gone over
> this, but what did people on WWII-L think of Spielberg's Schindler's List.
> I thought that it was gripping (all three and a bit hours of it).
>
> Best Wishes,
>
I haven't seen the movie since it has yet to appear here in Bangkok (it
will open on May 7th) but I just finished the book.  It appears to me
that Spindler may have started off as a smart businessman (healthy
workers are productive and thus profitable workers) and then got caught
up in what he was doing and enjoying the fact that he was outwitting the
system.

Opinions please.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 06:47:48 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44 (now nightfighters)

Hello, Bob, Emmanuel and others!

Very interesting post!

> And just a little point, The P-38M was set up to carry a radar operator above
> and behind the pilot. ( I believe he had to be above because of the way the
> wing structure came through the center pod, not because they wanted the
> visibility)

    And all the more reason to push for a purpose-dedicated night
fighter, as the P-38M, a good machine, left much to be desired for
the night-fighting role.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 10:48:26 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ULTRA in BARAROSSA

They knew something was up (Britain and USA) and they told the
Russians, but Stalin thought it was a plot to get him to turn
against Hitler. :)

He learned the truth later the hard way.

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 11:05:51 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Smooth bore guns

A rifled gun has a groove cut in it to spin it's projectile in flight
which will increse its accuracy and it's range.  A smoothbore gun does
not have the groove and lacks both range and accuracy(bear with me for a
minute) smoothbore guns came out first, then rifled guns, and now many
modern tanks use smoothbores again, but for a different reason. The main
tank killing piece of ammunition is either the FSDSDU round or the HEAT round.
The FSDSDU is a Fin-Stabilizied Discarding Sabot Depleted Uranium penetrator,
a long thing piece of metal which is surrounded by blocks to hold it in the
cannon until it is fired when they drop awa in flight, so that the entire
force of the very heavy penetrator (depleted uranium is very dense) is
exerted on a tiny section of the tank, this kind of penetrator has no problem
in going through several feet of sand and a Soviet T-72 tank as shown
by Desert Storm.  The do not need to be spun (ie from a rifled gun)
because they have fins that stabilize them after launch.  The HEAT
round is High Explosive Anti-Tank round, it uses the Monroe Effect, a
specific characteristics of explosives, to fire a superheated jet
of metal, gas, and other things so as to melt it's way into the tank,
if this shell is spun (ie from a rifled gun) the jet is disbursed because
it gets thrown out to the sides which is why it is much easier to fire
it from a smoothbore gun.  With the high power, long barrel, and computer
fire control their really is no loss in accuracy with the current
smoothbore guns mounted on the M1A1 tank.

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 11:06:42 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Question: Cannon/Machine Gun

Canon are 20mm and larger, machineguns are smaller

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 11:13:33 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

Bangalore Torpedoe.

Explosive in first end, other section of pipe screwed together to move
explosive section further toward the obstacle, when the explosive is
next to obsatacle (west wall in movie) blow the explosives and you have
an opening in the obstacle.  But torpedoe was a straight line (roughly)
and you could walk machinegun fire along the length of it (also
shown in movie).

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 11:05:19 EDT
From:    Archie <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ULTRA in BARAROSSA

The question of how much Stalin knew of the intended German attack is
addressed in a recent book about Molotov.  He said that the treaty with
Germany in 1939 was a way to gain time before the Germans attacked Russia.
Molotov is speaking from a particular perspective but it would seem that
such a major military undertaking would provide spys many opportunities to
ascertain information. As such, it would be unlikely that nothing was known
by the Russians.

Perhaps some of the previously secret materials now being made public by the
Russians will shed some light on this subject.
Opinions from others on the list.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 11:15:49 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: WEAP: Weird Weapons

FAE bombs, Fuel Air Explosive, gives off a spray of
an inflammable explosive, then lights it off, a tremendously
effective weapon (it doesn't burn from out in CNN is wrong, it gets
ignited from the middle and it happens almost all at once) same
principle as a coal dust explosion.

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 08:21:59 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Schindler's List

Excellent, of course.
        And all the more so from having been written by an Australian.
o o
 "
 U

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 11:21:45 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44

Don't forget the F4U also with a radar pod used for night fighting

John E. Kollar

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 08:30:26 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: River Platte (Graf Spee)

1) My comment was in response to someone else on here saying they had seen a photograph of Capt Langsdorff making the Nazi salute at the funeral of some
of his crew at Montevideo.
2) If anyone has quibbles about the degree of Nazification of he WW2 German
Navy, they would be better employed taking up the matter with Adm Doenitz.
It was his idea, not mine.  :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 11:31:55 -0400
From:    "John E. Kollar" <[email-masked]>
Subject: D-Day

I've looked through my books, but can't find relief, can anyone
give me a casualty count on German deaths on June 6, 1944 just a
quickl count is needed, also one of the Allied deaths, rounding
to thousands is ok, I just need some quick numbers to fire off to my
local paper that is bitching that the Germans shouldn't be invited
to the DDay celeberation (never mind that we invited a Japanese rep.
to Pearl Harbour...) and I need to correct her history.  She says that
6.6 thousand Americans died on DDay, that is fully half a division, and
casualties are almost always at least 1.5 times the number of deaths, so
that means that only one half to three quarters of a division would be
able to engage in combat, which I can't believe, especially since only one
beach was hotly contested.

John E. Kollar
(I think maybe 6.6 thou might be for all allies)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 13:48:34 EST
From:    "Theron P. Keller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 2 May 1944

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr44.txt

05/02 Tue.  United States naval vessel damaged:
             Destroyer PARROTT (DD-218), by collision off
              Norfolk, Va.,
              36 d. 41' N., 76 d. 18' W.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 08:45:54 PDT
From:    Sidney Allinson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: River Platte (Graf Spee)

Bengtt...
        August 11, 1943.
                Announcement from Adm Doenitz to all German Naval Forces:
        "The enormous strength which the Fuhrer radiates, his unwavering confidence, and his far-sighted appraisal, have made it very clear that we are all
very insignificant in comparison to the Fuhrer..."
        December 17, 1943.
                Speech by Admiral Doenitz to an assembly of Kreigsmarine
officers at Weimar:
        "It is nonsense to say that the soldier, sailor, or officer, must
be non-political. The sosldier embodies the State in which he lives, he is
its representative, the outspoken advocate of the State. Therefore he has
to stand behind this State with all his might." -- Adm Doenitz.

'Pretty clear signal of Nazification as Navy policy, right from the top.
*Doentiz's* words by the way. Please don't keep shooting the messengers. :-)
        After all, even Adm Doenitz said, "Anyone who believes he can do
better than the Fuhrer is silly..."

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 21:22:31 +0200
From:    Hans Steketee <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Blitzkrieg France 1940

On Tue, 22 Mar 1994, Hans Steketee wrote:

> Does anyone know whether Flak-regiments attached to German Panzer
> divisions during the 1940 Blitzkrieg campaign in France were equiped with
> so called Horchgerate _  listening devices to measure range, azimuth and
> bearing of enemy aircraft - for fire control purposes?
>
> Hans Steketee
> Defense editor, NRC Handelsblad, Rotterdam, the Netherlands
>

On Mon, 2 May 1994, Hans Steketee send the same message.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 15:22:59 -0400
From:    Norrin M Ripsman <[email-masked]>
Subject: German Navy 1936

I know this is before WWII, but I thought I'd give it a shot.  Does anyone
know where I can find sources on both the composition of the German navy
[and in particular U-boats] and the relative naval balance between France
and Germany in 1936?

Thanks in advance,

Norrin M. Ripsman

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 18:15:24 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: River Platte (Graf Spee)

On Mon, 2 May 1994, Bengt Nilsson wrote:
>
> Isn't the truth that Capt. Langsdorff didn't make the Nazi salute. I am
> right now looking at the picture from the funeral mentioned earlier and
> its showing him making the usual military salute.

I've also read that he wrapped himself in the flag of the old Imperial
Navy, not that of the 'Third Reich' navy with the swastika, before
committing suicide.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 15:09:14 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ULTRA in BARAROSSA

Hello, Archie!

See below.

> The question of how much Stalin knew of the intended German attack
is
> addressed in a recent book about Molotov.  He said that the treaty with
> Germany in 1939 was a way to gain time before the Germans attacked Russia.
> Molotov is speaking from a particular perspective but it would seem that
> such a major military undertaking would provide spys many opportunities to
> ascertain information. As such, it would be unlikely that nothing was known
> by the Russians.

    Interesting.

> Perhaps some of the previously secret materials now being made public by the
> Russians will shed some light on this subject.

    Agree with that, and wish research in this area could be
expedited. I am certain that there is much there that could
significantly affect the interepretation of the conflict. I,
personally, would like very much to know all was involved with Rote
Kappelle in Switzerland, besides Rudolf Roessler, and just who his
contacts were inside the German High Command. To my knowledge that
has never been established nor has the identity of his top agent
there been revealed.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 15:13:59 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TAC: River Platte (Graf Spee)

Hello, Bengt!

See below.

> Isn't the truth that Capt. Langsdorff didn't make the Nazi salute. I am
> right now looking at the picture from the funeral mentioned earlier and
> its showing him making the usual military salute.

    Yes. From all I have seen, your statement is correct. In fact,
Captain Langsdorff wrapped himself in the old Imperial War Flag of
Prussia before he shot himself. Langsdorff saw himself as a
representative of the old Imperial naval officer of the old class. He
did his duty as he saw it without regard to politics in Berlin.

> If I'm not mistaken that's also what Capt Lindemann did just before the
> Bismarck sank.

    That is also correct.

> So I'm sure the nazification was not as complete as Sidney Allinson seems
> to suggest.

     That is also true. Of all the services, the German Navy was the
least politicized and nazified.

        Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 15:19:07 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44

Hello, Fred!

Please check your e-mail each day for awhile. I will post something
on this aircraft during that time. If you or anyone else has a
question, please drop me a line.

More later.

Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 19:14:39 +0200
From:    Emmanuel Gustin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: ULTRA in BARAROSSA

> The question of how much Stalin knew of the intended German attack is
> addressed in a recent book about Molotov.  He said that the treaty with
> Germany in 1939 was a way to gain time before the Germans attacked Russia.
> Molotov is speaking from a particular perspective but it would seem that
> such a major military undertaking would provide spys many opportunities to
> ascertain information. As such, it would be unlikely that nothing was known
> by the Russians.

In fact, quite a lot was known to the Russians, but Stalin simply refused
to believe it. The German troop movements were observed, spies reported on
the German plans, the British sent a warning, even some Germans
(reportedly including the German ambassador in Moscow, von Schulenburg)
warned for the coming attack. Some Red Army generals did attempt to alert
their units, but were quickly ordered not to do so. Molotov himself was a
little worried (He asked the Germans what he could do to remove their
'irritation') but probably did rely on Stalin's opinion.

Stalin probably thought that it was not logical for Germany to attack the
USSR at that time -- of course he was right, but Hitler wasn't being
logical. In general, the USSR adhered to the 1939 treaty, delivering
products and materials to Germany. Some of the Soviet movements in the
Balkan had upset Hitler, however.

Meanwhile, the USSR was preparing for war, but the plans were far too
gradiose in design and too slowly executed --- in 1941, the USSR was
basically still unprepared.

The 1939 treaty can be explained in several ways. At the time, the USSR
had three options: (1) Staying out of the conflict: relatively safe, but
without immediaty profit. (2) Becoming an ally of France and Britain, and
fighting Germany:  highly dangerous, with the bad condition of the Red
Army, and the French and British were offering nothing in return. (3)
Making an agreement with Hitler to be good friends: safe and highly
profitable. Stalin simply selected the best option.

Emmanuel Gustin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 15:47:02 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: INF: USAAF 28 APR 44

Hello, Peter!

Glad to hear from you again, too. Please check your e-mail daily. I
will be sending much info on this aircraft to the whole list.

More later.

Terry

 > Terry, I am very interrested in this kind of information and I
> suppose a lot of others are, please post it to the list.
> Peter de Lange
>

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 14:24:16 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronologies

After reading many posts by Jack McKillop on the USAAF chronologies, I
finally decided that it would be worth the effort to try to find and post a
US Navy version of the same.  I found a chronology file at the byrd ftp
site, and I plan to be posting each day's summary.  Most of these
chronologies aren't even close to being as long as their USAAF
counterparts.  I suppose that's because there were tens of thousands of
planes, but only hundreds of ships.  (These numbers are certainly a guess,
if anyone has any kind of a concrete figure, that would be kind of
interesting to know.)

If the post seems incomplete, well it probably is.  I've already received
one comment on today's post: "With whom or what did the destroyer collide?"
Unfortunately, what you read is what I've got.  If you have questions about
content, I'd recommend posting them to the list, as there are MANY here
with resources that must rival a small college library!  :-)

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 15:26:08 GMT-6
From:    Terry Moore <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: D-Day

Hello, John!

> I've looked through my books, but can't find relief, can anyone
> give me a casualty count on German deaths on June 6, 1944 just a
> quickl count is needed, also one of the Allied deaths, rounding
> to thousands is ok,

    I have seen the figure 10,000 casualties for the Allies on 6 June
1944. That may be deaths, but I am not certain. Will have to check on
that.

I just need some quick numbers to fire off to my
> local paper that is bitching that the Germans shouldn't be invited
> to the DDay celeberation (never mind that we invited a Japanese rep.
> to Pearl Harbour...) and I need to correct her history.  She says that
> 6.6 thousand Americans died on DDay, that is fully half a division, and
> casualties are almost always at least 1.5 times the number of deaths, so
> that means that only one half to three quarters of a division would be
> able to engage in combat, which I can't believe, especially since only one
> beach was hotly contested.

    German losses were higher, but I cannot vouch for any figures I
may quote you on that. Will have to check that for you as well.

    More later, if someone else hasn't gotten it to you first.

    Terry

Terry Moore, Professor of German and French, Amarillo College
P.O. Box 447, Amarillo, Texas 79178, voice 806-371-5077
fax 806-371-5370

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 17:50:38 -0400
From:    Emery Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Spam in Europe

Hello all!
        Hopefully nobody will get too upset at my excusion into the obscure.
I was wondering if our national pride and glory, Spam, was exported in
massive quantities to Europe and the Soviet Union during WWII.  Also,
was Spam included in the rations for U.S. GIs?  Does anybody have any
quotations of comments from foreign nationals who tried Spam?  I'm sure if
the Russians tried it they may have converted from Communism long ago.

        An annual Spam eater,

                --Emery

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 15:06:14 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: MOnte Cassino

I have gotten the impression that Monte Cassino was considered an important
battle in WWII.  Something about destroying the monastery occupied by
German artillery.  However, I have also heard that the Germans were not
actually there and that the story was invented.

Can anybody cite a reference for me concerning the truth about MOnte
Cassino?

Thank you.

  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic. |    economic, social, political     |
  |                                  |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |                                  |  B-25 in WWII.                     |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 May 1994 16:11:00 PST
From:    Stephen Fox <[email-masked]>
Subject: Bomber Crewman survives (fighter pilot too)

A few months ago I spoke with a P-51 (Mustang) pilot who had
bailed out, but his chute was what we navy fliers called a "Roman
Candle."  (Maybe the AF called it the same?)

He came down through a tree, as I remember it, breaking several bones
in his legs.  Hospitalized, he was eventually exchanged in January
1945 for hundreds of civilian German internees that were being
repatriated to Germany.

He lives in Washington State, but I don't feel at liberty
in giving out hjis name and hometown.

****************************************************************************
 Steve Fox                     "I ask myself, where is the man or woman,
 History Department            standing before lifeless porpoises strangled
 Humboldt State University     and bloated in a beachcast driftnet, or
 Arcata, CA  95521             standing on farmland ankle deep in soil gone
 (707) 826-4788                to flour dust, or flying over the Cascade
 FAX: (707) 826-4496           Mountains and seeing the clear cuts stretching
 [email-masked]         for forty miles, the sunbaked earth, the streams
                               running with mud, who does not want to say,
                               'Forgive me, thou bleeding earth, that I am
                               meek and gentle with these butchers'?"
                                        --Barry Lopez
***************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 1 May 1994 to 2 May 1994
***********************************************