Subject: WWII-L Digest - 8 Jul 1994 to 9 Jul 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 1994 00:00:52 -0400

There are 12 messages totalling 347 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: USN Chronology 07-09-94
  2. INF: 50 Years Ago - 09-JUL-1944
  3. A-bomb/Smithsonian (3)
  4. Red Cross Records/Conc.Camp
  5. Major Kim (3)
  6. Dining out at the Smithsonian (3)

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 04:37:19 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 07-09-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
07/09 Sun. Organized enemy resistance ceases on Saipan, Marianas
Islands.
           Submarine NAUTILUS (SS-168) lands men and supplies on Pandan
           Island off west coast of Mindoro, P. I.
            United States naval vessel sunk:
             Minesweeper SWERVE (AM-121), by mine, Italian area,
              41 d. 31'N., 12 d. 28'E.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 08:54:06 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 09-JUL-1944

On 09-JUL-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The US VIII Corps is pinned down by difficult terrain and by
     very stiff German resistance, while trying to push on beyond La
     Haye-du-Puits. The 4th and 83rd Divisions (VII Corps) advance towards
     Periers in spite of a violent German barrage. The 9th Division is sent
     into the line east of the river Taute. In the XIX Corps sector, the 39th
     Division continues pushing towards the road linking St Lo and Lessay. The
     US 5th Division lands at Normandy. In the British sector, the Canadian
     3rd Division of the British I Corps enter the suburbs of Caen from the
     west, while the British 1st Division enters from the north, driving out
     the German 12th Panzer SS Division. The Canadians also take the Carpiquet
     Airfield.

Eastern Front - Troops of the 3rd Belorussian Front capture Lida, in the
     central northern sector. The German Army Group North is isolated in the
     Baltic states as a direct result of Hitlers reckless orders.

Italian Front - The US 34th Division is advancing northward beyond Rosignano.
     The 88th Division takes Volterra. On their right, French units are
     advancing on Poggibonsi. The British 8th Army prepares to attack Arezzo.

Marianas - On Saipan, the Marines and Infantry reach Point Marpi, the final
     objective of their advance. Apart from final mopping up actions, Saipan
     is now completely in the hands of the Americans. This is officially
     announced by Vice-Admiral Turner at 4:15 pm. The Saipan campaign has cost
     the Americans 3,400 dead and 13,000 wounded. The Japanese have lost
     almost 30,000 dead. Only about a hundred Japanese have been taken
     prisoner. At Point Marpi, hundreds of civilians, possibly collaborators
     with the Japanese, are found smashed to death at the foot of a high
     cliff.

Naval Dispatches
----------------
US submarine NAUTILUS (SS-168) lands men and supplies on Pandan Isalnd off the
     west coast of Mindora, P.I.

US minesweeper SWERVE (AM-121) sunk by mine, Italian area.

The Homefront
-------------
Wallace Home - Vice President Henry A. Wallace has arrived in Seattle en route
     to Washington from China, where he met with Chiang Kai-shek. In a
     nationwide radio address he predicts an era of properity and peace in the
     Pacific. He says Russia and China will "take the necessary steps to
     promote peace and trade among the nations of the Pacific to the benefit
     of all".

Best Selling Books - "Strange Fruit" by Lillian Smith, "The Razor's Edge" by
     W. Somerset Maugham, "A Tree Grows In Brooklyn" by Betty Smith, "The
     Robe" by Lloyd C. Douglas and "A Bell For Adano" by John Hersey.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
----------

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 10:18:12 -0600
From:    Kenneth Bartel <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: A-bomb/Smithsonian

I've been following the discussion on the bombings of Hiroshima and
Nagasaki. I admit I had never thought of the second bombing as being any more
unnecessary then other controversial attacks during the war, such as the
fire bombing of Dresden. However, when we used the second bomb could we
have been trying to send the message to Stalin, as well as Japan, that we had
more of these weapons? I always believed that at the time period of the
bombings, the relationship between Truman and Stalin was deteriorating
rapidly and the 'West' was becoming concerned about Soviet behavior in
Eastern Europe. Could Truman have authorized the second bombing in order
to show the Soviets that the US had the upper hand militarily in the
relationship?

Thanks
Ken Bartel
[email-masked]

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 10:32:47 -800
From:    Jim Curry <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: A-bomb/Smithsonian

On Sat, 9 Jul 1994, Kenneth Bartel wrote:

> I've been following the discussion on the bombings of Hiroshima and
> Nagasaki. I admit I had never thought of the second bombing as being any more
> unnecessary then other controversial attacks during the war, such as the
> fire bombing of Dresden. However, when we used the second bomb could we
> have been trying to send the message to Stalin, as well as Japan, that we had
> more of these weapons? I always believed that at the time period of the
> bombings, the relationship between Truman and Stalin was deteriorating
> rapidly and the 'West' was becoming concerned about Soviet behavior in
> Eastern Europe. Could Truman have authorized the second bombing in order
> to show the Soviets that the US had the upper hand militarily in the
> relationship?
>
> Thanks
> Ken Bartel
> [email-masked]

This theory was very popular during the Vietnam era, when antiwar activists
took a "revisionist" approach to the Cold War,blaming it (and indirectly
the war in Vietnam) on unjustified American hostility to the Soviets. A
historian named Gar Alperovitz wrote a book entitled _Atomic Diplomacy_
(Simon and Schuster, 1965) spelling out in detail the argument that the
use of the atom bombs was really meant to intimidate Stalin rather than
to end the war quickly.  Alperovitz documented this claim by references
to statements in the diaries of Henry Stimson,Secretary of War in 1945,
and postwar writings of James Byrnes, Truman's first Secretary of State.
Outside of New Left circles most scholars discount Alperovitz's argument.
There is not a scrap of evidence for it in anything said or written by
President Truman, as blunt and outspoken as any man who ever held office.
It is easy to exaggerate the speed with which US-USSR relations broke
down;  Truman kept trying to maintain good relations with Stalin for
at least a year after the war ended.

Jim Curry

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 17:07:16 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: A-bomb/Smithsonian

> fire bombing of Dresden. However, when we used the second bomb could we
> have been trying to send the message to Stalin, as well as Japan, that we had
> more of these weapons? I always believed that at the time period of the

I'm quite sure that Truman was hoping to impress Stalin. (But why would a
second bomb impress Uncle Joe more than the first, which after all did
much more damage and had several times the psychological effect--still does!)

A couple weeks earlier, Truman was begging Stalin to join the war against
the Japanese. Am I talking about Yalta or Teheran? Anyhow, Truman got the
message about the Alamagordo bomb being successfully set off, and he told
Stalin that the U.S. had a tremendous new weapon. Stalin smiled, as the
story goes. He probably knew more about it than Truman did.

Still, I'm sure that neither Stalin nor Truman nor anyone in the world
except the Hiroshima survivors knew the capabilities of the bomb on
August 7, and it was years before any really understood the long-term
consequences. How about those pictures of Japanese workers cleaning up
the mess with no protection but handkerchiefs over their faces?

            - Dan      <[email-masked]>

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 16:09:50 -0500
From:    Anita Louise Sybesma <[email-masked]>
Subject: Red Cross Records/Conc.Camp

After the fall of the Berlin Wall, we read a newspaper article saying
that the Red Cross now had access to the files from the Concentration
Camps from WWII. We wrote the RC, but did not get a response.  Do any of
you know about this? My husbands uncle ,Pieter Sybesma, was killed at
Auswich in March of 1945, just days before liberation.

Any help will be greatly appreciated,
Anita

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 17:27:58 -0400
From:    Emery Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Major Kim

Hi everyone,

Now that the "Great Leader" Kim Il Sung has passed away I am hearing reports
that he served in the Red Army during WWII as a Major.  Can anyone provide
me with additional information and sources?

IMHO a coup has just occurred in Pyongyang, and the son of Kim, the "Dear
Leader", is going south like a low budget sequel. :(

Emery

 __________________________________________________________________
||.From.the.mind.of........>> H. Emery Ford                      ||
||..../^>>.................>> Internet: [email-masked]     ||
||../ //...../^\\/^\\......>> ENEE/Russian Student               ||
||<   __>>./ //\_//\ \\....>> University of Maryland             ||
||..\ \\.< //........\ >>..>>                                    ||
||....\ >>.................>> "The tougher it gets, the cooler   ||
||.........................>> I get." --Richard M. Nixon         ||
||_"more_than_a_character"_>>____________________________________||

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 18:29:25 -0500
From:    John Lundstrom <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Dining out at the Smithsonian

Dan,
        Thanks for this post! I have shared it with friends for a good
laugh, Unfortunately the basic problem of the PC attitude at the Smithsonian
remains. The Enola Gay exhibit script is awful, with very little
understanding of Japanese as opponents and very little based on the reality
of the Pacific War.
        My family and I will be in Washington, DC, from the night of 31 July
to Friday, 5 August. If you are going to be in the neighborhood, please let
me know.
                           Best wishes,   John Lundstrom

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 19:24:01 -0400
From:    Douglas Kornreich <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Major Kim

from "Terrorism: The North Korean Connection" Bermudez, Joseph S Jr.

        Kim Sung Chu, now known as Kim Il Sung, was born in April 1910, the
eldest son of a farmer named Kim Hung Jin.  He had two younger brothers.
His father took part in the 1918 uprising against the Japanese in Seoul,
was placed in jail, where he eventually died.  Kim and his two brothersfled
to Manchuria, where he attended middle school in Kirin, but did not
graduate.  He left school in 1929 and joined the Communist Party and was
local secretary in Kirin of the Communist Young Man's League in East
Manchuria.  At the time he started his carrer as a guerrilla leader, and
for some time was in the army of Wu I-cheng during the early 1930's.
Korean guerillas were then very active in easrtern Manchuria.  He was
undoubtedly a very able guerilla, and thus came to the attention of the
real Kim Il Sung.  The younger Kim was active in arranging an alliance with
the North Manchuria forces, and in 1936 an allied anti-Japanese force was
established.  The Second and Sixth Corps of this guerilla army appear to to
have been composed of Koreans.  He became commander of the Sixth Corps in
1938 and was very active in guerilla operations until 1939, when he was
driven out by the Japanese and fled to Soviet territory.  Definite
informetion about his stay in the USSR is lacking; ther are unconfirmed
reports that he attended a Soviet military academy, was commissioned as a
captain, and actually took part in the defense of Stalingrad, being
decorated for his service there.
        In August of 1945, Kim Sung Chu returned to North Korea with the
Russians as a captain in the Russian army. He cultivated Cho Man Sik, an
able Korean Nationalist and the most respected non-Communist leader in
North Korea, telling him privately that he, Kim, was a fervent nationalist
and did not believe in some of the Communist plans for Korea.  Taken in,
Cho introduced Kim at a liberation celebration in P'yongyang on 3 October
1945, as Kim Il Sung, describing him as an ardent Korean patriot and
nationalist.  Cho's reputation assured Kim of an enthusiastic reception
from the general public, which did not stop to consider that the real Kim
Il Sung must have been a much older man.
        Kim became immediately popular, and later the same month, with full
Soviet support, obtained leadership of the party from the local North
Korean Communists and from the titular head of the Korean Communist PartyII

The reference cited for this material is:
US Army, _History of the North Korean Army_ HQ,FEC,MIS,G2, 31 July 1952,
90-91

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 20:11:02 -0400
From:    Christopher Morton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Major Kim

>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Now that the "Great Leader" Kim Il Sung has passed away I am hearing reports
> that he served in the Red Army during WWII as a Major.  Can anyone provide
> me with additional information and sources?

I know he was an artillery officer.  I've heard that he was either at Leningrad
or Stalingrad.

> IMHO a coup has just occurred in Pyongyang, and the son of Kim, the "Dear
> Leader", is going south like a low budget sequel. :(

I've heard the that "Dear Leader" isn't nearly as popular with some circles in
the DPRK as Rush Limbaugh is the DNC.... :)

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 20:48:43 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Dining out at the Smithsonian

>         My family and I will be in Washington, DC, from the night of 31 July
> to Friday, 5 August. If you are going to be in the neighborhood, please let
> me know.

Gee, I don't think so. In 1990 it was so hot & awful here that I went to
Washington figuring it couldn't possibly be any worse.

It was.

Did you notice that they're building 5 new Me 262s?

            - Dan      <[email-masked]>

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Date:    Sat, 9 Jul 1994 20:58:39 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Dining out at the Smithsonian

Sorry about that last post, folks. It wasn't meant to go out to the whole
world :-)

            - Dan      <[email-masked]>

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End of WWII-L Digest - 8 Jul 1994 to 9 Jul 1994
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