Subject: WWII-L Digest - 12 Jul 1994 to 13 Jul 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 00:01:03 -0400

There are 22 messages totalling 851 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: USN Chronology 07-13-94
  2. Nagasaki
  3. Truman/Atom Bomb
  4. [INF] USAAF 13 JUL 44
  5. TRUMAN AND ATOM BOMB
  6. 50th: FIGHTING IN NORMANDY (2)
  7. Malaria Remedy
  8. More on: the Nagasaki bomb
  9. Bob Stevens
 10. No Mail
 11. Me-262 reconstructions
 12. <No subject given>
 13. Parachutes (5)
 14. INF: 50 Years Ago - 13-JUL-1944
 15. B-25 H model
 16. Bomb Transportation (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 01:27:03 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 07-13-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
07/13 Thu.  United States naval vessel sunk:
             Submarine HERRING (SS-133), Pacific Ocean area, reported as
              presumed lost.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 06:56:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Nagasaki

On my last birthday, my wife gave me a copy of TRUMAN by David McCullough
(Simon & Schuster, 1992, ISBN 0-671-45654-7).  I have not had a chance to
read it yet (another one on the pile of TO BE READ!!!) but due to the
current debate about the Nagaski bomb, I decided to use the book as a
reference to see what McCullough had to say about this event.

On page 457, McCullough states that no high-level meeting had been held
about the Nagaski bomb and no order, other than the military directive for
the first bomb, had ever been issued.  This directive had been issued on 25
Jul 45 by General of the Army George C. Marshall's deputy, General Thomas
T. Handy, to General Carl A. Spaatz, Commanding General, U.S. Army
Strategic Air Forces in the Pacific (USASTAF).  Paragraph 2 of the
directive stated, "Additional bombs will be delivered on the above targets
as soon as made ready by the project staff....."  The plutonium bomb,
nicknamed "Fat Man," was delivered two days ahead of schedule.

NOTE: According to THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II, Volume 5, Wesley
Frank Craven and James Lea Cate, the University of Chicago Press, 1953,
some thought had been given to dropping the second bomb on 11 August 45.
When bad weather was forcast for the Japanese main islands on 11 August,
the strike day for the atom bomb was advanced to 9 August.  This decision
was made by military personnel in the Marianas Islands, not by Truman.
(page 718)

On page 459, McCullough states the on the morning Nagaski was bombed, a
meeting was held of Japan's Supreme Council for the Direction of War in
Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki's bomb shelter outside the Imperial Palace in
Tokyo.  "The meeting was deadlocked with three powerful military commanders
(two generals and one admiral) arguing fervently against surrender.  It was
time now to 'lure' the Americans ashore.  General (Korechika) Anami, the war
minister, called for one last great battle on Japanese soil--as demanded by
the national honor, as demanded by the honor of the living and the dead.
'Would it not be wondrous for this whole nation to be destroyed like a
beautiful flower?' he asked.  But when news of Nagaski was brought in, the
meeting was adjourned to convene again with the Emperor that night in the
Imperial Libraary.  In the end, less than twenty-four hours after Nagaski,
it was Hirohito who decided.  They must, he said, 'bear the unbearable' and
surrender."

In Jul 45, the Japanese ambassador in Moscow, Naotake Sato, on orders
from Tokyo, had begun discussions with the Soviets on the possibility of
bringing an end to the war. On 12 Jul, the Japanese Minister of Foreign
Affairs, Shigenori Togo, send a "Very Secret, Urgent" radio message to
Ambassador Sato stating that the Emperor was "greatly concerned over the
daily increasing calamities and sacrifices faced by the citizens of the
various belligerent countries" and that is was "His Majesty's heart's
desire to see the swift termination of the war."  His Majesty wished to
send Prince Konoye as a special envoy to Mosocw to talk.

Sato sent a message back stating the whole thing was pointless because
Molotov was not interested.  "In the final analysis," Sato tolk Togo, "if
our country truly desires to terminate the war, we have no alternative but
to accept unconditional surrender or something very close to it."  This
message, like all Japanese dipolomatic messages, was intercepted and
decoded by US intelligence.  The response from Tokyo to Sato was that Japan
would not consent to unconditional surrender.  All of these messages were
given to Truman.

Truman was also given an assement by the Combined Intelligence Committee
stating that the Japanese might try to cause dissension among the Allies by
using peace overtures.  And then Truman also remembered the ambassadors that
Japan had sent to Washington in Nov-Dec 41.

As far as Truman's inviting the Soviet Union into the war with Japan, here
are some facts from the book:

1. On 23 Apr 45, 11 days after Roosevelt's death, Turman held a meeting in
the Oval Office with Edward Stettinius, Henry L. Stimson, James Forrestal,
General George C. Marshall, Admirals Ernest J. King and William Leahy, W.
Averell Harriman, Charles "Chip" Bohlen, James Dunn and General John R.
Deane, who was head of the Moscow military missions.  Both Stimson and
Marshall urged that Truman use caution with the Russians because Marshall's
great concern was that Russia would delay getting into the war with Japan
"until we have done all the dirty work."  (page 375)

2. Prior to the Potsdam Conference, "General Marshall and Admiral King had
both stressed the need for Soviet action against Japan, to shorten the war
and reduce American casualties.  General MacArthur had twice insisted that
Russian help was needed."  (page 409)

3. During the Potsdam Conference, Stalin said as they had agreed at Yalta,
the Soviets would be ready to declare war on Japan by mid-Aug 45.  Truman
said he was very pleased but Stalin, as if to stress the point, repeated
that the Red Army would be ready to go to war with Japan in mid-August "as
agreed at Yalta."

4. On 20 Jul 45, Truman, still at Potsdam, invited Generals Dwight D.
Eisenhower and Omar Bradley to lunch.  The generals were not asked their
opinion on dropping the A-bomb on Japan but Eisenhower volunteered that he
was against the use of the bomb.  Ike was also against inviting the
Russians into the war against Japan though he acknowledged that "no power
on earth could keep the Red Army out of that war unless victory came before
they could get in."  Some years later Truman told his daughter Margaret,
"Had we known what the bomb would do we'd never have wanted the Bear in the
picture."

I hope this clears up some misconceptions (shared by me also) about the
events involving the A-bombing of Nagaski.  I welcome all comments.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 07:01:19 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Truman/Atom Bomb

> I have been told that, when the average Japanese heard that the war was over,
> they thought that Japan had won!  Nothing short of the Bomb or total
> annihilation would have sufficed against such a people.

There is a fascinating but one-sided book called *Japan's Imperial
Conspiracy* which tries to make the point that the Emperor planned the
whole war and directed it carefully and minutely. What's great about the
book is the fact that the author was a prisoner in Manila. English, I
think. So he really makes things zip. Anyhow, he made a TV documentary
from it and got it aired on Public TV but of course it was just too
outrageous for the good gentle folk there it let it go by without having
him defend himself for an hour against the usual suspects from academia.

There is a Japanese Asian history scholar at Harvard named Akira. (I
mean, he is Japanese and he teaches Asian history.) When the author made
the point that the people a) couldn't understand the Emperor because he
was speaking in an obsolete court language and b) were so shocked to hear
His voice (I mean, this is God speaking!) that the whole nation broke
down in tears, Akira said in effect:

Well, I was there, and the audio wasn't very good but we understood him
perfectly. And my parents were weeping from relief, because the war was over.

            - Dan      <[email-masked]>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 07:04:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: [INF] USAAF 13 JUL 44

COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES
THURSDAY, 13 JULY 1944
FTP SITES
  1. ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
  2. byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/
     wwii_chronology

AIRCRAFT MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT:
  A-20, Douglas Havoc
  A-36, North American Apache
  B-17, Boeing Flying Fortress
  B-24, Consolidated Liberator
  B-25, North American Mitchell
  C-47, Douglas Skytrain
  P-38, Lockheed Lightning
  P-40, Curtiss
  P-47, Republic Thunderbolt
  P-51, North American Mustang

CHINA-BURMA-INDIA (CBI) THEATER OF OPERATIONS

  BURMA-INDIA (Tenth Air Force): In Burma, 44 P-40s and P-51s support ground
forces in the Myitkyina area; 40 more A-36s, P-51s, and P-47s hit bridges at
Nyaunggon, Mohnyin, Myothit, Mawlu, and Henu, and attack the Hopin, Lashio,
and Indawgyi Lake areas; and the 315th Troop Carrier Squadron, 443d Troop
Carrier Group, based at Moran, India, sends a detachment to operate from
Shingbwiyang with C-47s.

  CHINA (Fourteenth Air Force): In China, 16 B-25s bomb Pailochi Airfield,
causing large fires and considerable damage; 45 P-40s attack trucks,
compounds, river shipping, and troop concentrations between Hengyang and
Siangtan, pound the town of Liling and Siangtan Airfield, and strafe shipping
from Changsha S along the Siang Chiang River; 8 B-25s bomb Chenghsfen
railroad yards and storage area; and 12 B-25s bomb Tengchung and Mangshih.

EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 471: 1,043 bombers and
609 fighters in 3 forces are dispatched to bomb targets in Germany; 10
bombers and 5 fighters are lost:
  1. Of 399 B-17s, 356 bomb Munich, 6 bomb the railroad at Munich and 3 hit
targets of opportunity; 4 B-17s are lost, 1 is damaged beyond repair and
156 damaged; 8 airmen are KIA, 7 WIA and 36 MIA. Escort is provided by 292
P-38s, P-47s and P-51s; they claim 2-1-2 Luftwaffe aircraft; 1 P-38 and 1
P-47 are lost.
  2. Of 278 B-17s, 139 bomb Munich, 100 hit an aircraft engine plant at
Munich and 3 hit targets of opportunity; they claim 11-4-8 Luftwaffe
aircraft; 5 B-17s are lost, 2 are damaged beyond repair and 129 damaged; 9
airmen are WIA and 50 MIA. Escort is provided by 170 P-38s, P-47s and
P-51s; 1 P-51 is lost and 1 P-38 is damaged beyond repair.
  3. Of 366 B-24s, 298 hit Saarbrucken marshalling yards and 3 hit targets
of opportunity; 1 B-24 is lost, 7 damaged beyond repair and 31 damaged; 23
airmen are KIA, 9 WIA and 19 MIA. Escort is provided by 81 of 85 P-51s; 1
P-51 is lost and 1 damaged beyond repair.
  28 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions during the night.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): In France, bad weather prevents
bomber operations and restricts the fighters; fighters fly armed
reconnaissance in the Sens-Montargis area, hitting rail and highway traffic,
warehouses, barracks, and armored cars and tanks; rail lines and bridges are
hit in the Saint-Florentin-Dreux-Evreux-Chartres-Mamers-Gassicourt areas; IX
Tactical Air Command fighters furnish area cover, bomb troop concentrations,
vehicles, and gun positions in the Lessay-Coutances area, and attack rail
traffic W of Angers, a landing field W of Alencon, marshalling yard at
Vendome, and a bridge at Tours.

MEDITERRANEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (MTO)

  STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force): 581 bombers attack targets in
NE Italy; B-17s hit marshalling yards at Mestre and railroad bridges at
Latisana, Pinzano al Tagliamento and Venzone; B-24s bomb marshalling yards
at Brescia, Mantova and Verona, and oil storage at Porto Marghera and
Trieste; P-38s and P-51s fly escort; other P-51s carry out a sweep over the
Po River Valley.

  TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Twelfth Air Force): In Italy, medium bombers again
bomb bridges in the Po River Valley; A-20s hit an ammunition plant; and
fighter-bombers attack targets, mainly railroads, in areas N of the Arno
River in advance of the battlefront. On Corsica, HQ 87th Fighter Wing moves
from Vescovato to Furiani; and the 524th Fighter Squadron, 27th Fighter
Group, moves from Voltone, Italy to Serragia with P-47s.

PACIFIC OCEAN AREA (POA, Seventh Air Force): P-47s continue to hit Tinian
Island. Kwajalein-based B-24s bomb Truk Atoll. B-25s from Makin Island pound
Nauru Island.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC AREA [SWPA, Far East Air Force (FEAF)]: B-24s again bomb
Yap Island and Sorol Atoll. In New Guinea, B-24s, B-25s, and A-20s bomb gun
positions and the airfield at Babo and in the Manokwari area and hit a supply
depot at Kokas; fighter-bombers support Allied ground forces in the Aitape
area while A-20s and fighter-bombers pound occupied areas and gun positions
in the Wewak area and on Mushu Island; and the 498th Bombardment Squadron
(Medium), 345th Bombardment Group (Medium), moves from Nadzab to Biak Island
with B-25s. B-24s also hit Amahai Airfield on Ceram Island, Celebes Islands.

SOURCES:
AIR FORCE COMBAT UNITS OF WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force History,
  Headquarters USAF, 1961, ISBN 0-912799-02-1
COMBAT SQUADRONS OF THE AIR FORCE, WORLD WAR II, Office of Air Force
  History, Headquarters USAF 1982
THE ARMY AIR FORCES IN WORLD WAR II: COMBAT CHRONOLOGY, 1941-1945 by the
  Office of Air Force History, Headquarters USAF, 1973
THE MIGHTY EIGHTH WAR DIARY by Roger A. Freeman, ISBN 1-85409-071-2

Jack McKillop
USAF (Airways and Air Communications Service)
1955-59

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop         |  Those who have long enjoyed such      |
|  Bellcore              |  privileges as we enjoy forget in      |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA    |  time that men have died to win them.  |
|  [email-masked]  |                       FDR              |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 15:00:17 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRUMAN AND ATOM BOMB

  Oslo, July 13.  Joe, those Goldman messages were VERY interesting.  Reasonable
men can differ now on whether he did the right thing, but it was Truman who had
to make the decisions.  Looking at the record, no one can say they were taken
lightly.
  As I and others have noted, the fact is that the Japanese surrendered after
the bombs were dropped.  What would have been bad would have been if they had
not.  Had the Emporer sided with the military commanders who wanted to continue
the war, I doubt that anyone today would be criticizing the destruction of
Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  There would be even greater tragedies to discuss.
  I certainly do not recall any criticism of Truman's decisions among those of
us who were scheduled for the Japanese invasion.  (Those who criticize Truman
might try placing themselves in our shoes.)
   As to demonstrations, I might note that these have been considered many
times in thinking about how we might use nuclear weapons in Europe.  The
conclusion was always the same: to be credible, you would have to hit a military
target. Fortunately, we have not found out whether this was right or not.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway
  PS  I would hope that some of the enthusiasm for debating Hiroshima will
survive to its 50th anniversary, when we can expect a lot of discussion in the
media.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 15:19:32 +0200
From:    JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>
Subject: 50th: FIGHTING IN NORMANDY

  Oslo, July 12, 1994
  Fifty years ago we were bogged down in Normandy.  Montgomery was having
trouble getting going near Caen.  The American forces were finding it tough
going among the hedgerows. Part of the problem was that we had spent so much
time training for getting ashore that we never got around to giving thought to
what we would do after we got there.   To reduce the resistance, Eisenhower and
his commanders made ruthless use of bombing.  We also made generous use of
artillery.  We succeeded in killing a number of Germans but also a great many
Frenchmen.  The destruction of the cities was a terrible sight to behold.
  While a small incident, one experience made a lasting impression upon me and
disturbed my sleep from time to time for many years after the war.  When
inspecting a farm to see what damage some artillery I had directed had caused, I
found a young girl lying dead beside a cow in a barn.  I gradually buried this
in my subconscious and even began to wonder whether I had actually seen this or
only imagined it.  When, however, reading my letters to my parents while
producing my book, I found a reference to this incident.
  Artillery is normally rather impersonal.  You later see a lot of bodies but
cannot be sure whether you played a role in killing them or not.  In the case of
this young girl, I could not be in doubt.
  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 07:17:32 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Malaria Remedy

>Wendy Slader <[email-masked]> says,...
>
>This is sort of a "haffassed" WWII question with a side-order of medical
>research...
>
>My uncle served under Gen. Patton and while in North Africa contracted
>Malaria.  The story goes that he was given nothing to eat for weeks but
>instead was gorged with pineapple juice hour after hour, day after day.
>Can anyone tell me why mass quantities of pineapple juice would be given
>as a remedy for malaria?   Apparently it worked--he did survive.
>Just curious.  Thanks.    WS

Hi neighbor, I used to know the nurse practitioner at Bryant in the
late 70's and early 80's. She died of ALS in 86'. 'Said it was her
most dreaded ailment,...

I really don't know anything about it, but isn't pineapple juice rich
in electrolytes such as potassium and magnesium, and isn't dehydration
a major concern with malaria?

 -Al

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALAN WILD, LAN MGR.  FATHER OF 1.556           VOICE:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881                            Bitnet:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: [email-masked]

  Television, in its present form, makes it difficult for Americans to
understand different cultures. It's a medium that conveys emotion better
than reason. Abstractions as powerful as religions and ideologies, deficits,
languages, and collective memories and loyalties just don't make it.

                                      - Graham Fraser (Toronto Globe & Mail)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 07:29:46 EDT
From:    Alan Wild <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: More on: the Nagasaki bomb

Jack says,...

>Another villian in the plot is the Soviet Union.  As I understand it, the
>Japanese had put out peace feelers to the Soviets but Uncle Joe stalled and
>never passed the information on to the West.  Perhaps we should be
>condemning Uncle Joe also.
>

I don't know the communication that went on, but you can be sure the
Japanese were trying to find an "honorable" way out of the war, if any.
The squirming vermon "of the time" (a little pc there - just a little)
were looking for something that would cushion their pride when they had
to capitulate, and they had no other choice: surrender in disgrace, or
make an end-run through Stalin hoping to reach some honorable armistice.

The fact that Uncle Joe was indeed Stallin',... sorry,... merely
places his diplomacy on the political right. I say good for him. There
must be a deterant to initiating war as there must be for local crime.
International anarchy must end. Make the price higher! God $#%& Hell.
A bitter example isn't quickly forgotten. One just must always remember
that the price of peace is eternal vigilance; creating too much bitterness
can rebound. ('thought I'd anticipate) -Al

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALAN WILD, LAN MGR.  FATHER OF 1.556           VOICE:          (401) 792-2611
ACC - Lippitt - URI  American Legion Post 102. FAX:            (401) 792-5479
Kingston, RI  02881                            Bitnet:           AWild@URIACC
                                               Internet: [email-masked]

  Television, in its present form, makes it difficult for Americans to
understand different cultures. It's a medium that conveys emotion better
than reason. Abstractions as powerful as religions and ideologies, deficits,
languages, and collective memories and loyalties just don't make it.

                                      - Graham Fraser (Toronto Globe & Mail)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 14:59:51 CET
From:    "LTC Donnell, Doug" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bob Stevens

Rick -

Don't know if you've had any success yet in your quest for the Bob
Stevens books.  Several good suggestions have already been posted.
You might want to try the Air Force Association.  As has already been
said, they used to publish Bob's cartoons as a monthly feature.  They
advertise his books from time to time, but flipping through a few
recent issues of AF Magazine, I didn't see one of the ads.  Anyway,
their tel number is 1-800-727-3337.

Sorry to have taken so long to get this posted.  I've really been up
to my proverbial rear end in aligators lately.  Good luck.

                     Doug Donnell (KD4MD/DA2DO)
                     Ruppertsweiler, Germany

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 09:48:24 -0500
From:    Mike Oaks <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: 50th: FIGHTING IN NORMANDY

In message Wed, 13 Jul 1994 15:19:32 +0200,
  JOHN AUSLAND <[email-masked]>  writes:

> Oslo, July 12, 1994
> Fifty years ago we were bogged down in Normandy.
>
TEXT DELETED MAO
   Regards, John Ausland/Oslo> Norway

John,
    A couple of months ago, I believe you mentioned the possibility of doing
your book "Memoirs From Home" in an electronic format and then having it
available to us on the Listserv?? Has anything come of that idea as of yet??
Thanks,
    Mike Oaks
 ___________________________________________________________________
|                                                                   |
|    Michael A. Oaks                 Music: A way to mark times     |
|    Kennesaw State College                 stepping stones through |
|    [email-masked]             your calendar of life.  |
|    Tel: (404) 423-6049  Fax (404) 423-6541   ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~  MAO |
|___________________________________________________________________|

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 09:37:00 PDT
From:    "Wsiaki, Bill" <[email-masked]>
Subject: No Mail

I have not received any mail from the WWII-L list since last Thursday.  Is
there a technical problem or have I been dropped from the list?

Bill Wsiaki

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 11:17:07 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Me-262 reconstructions

For those who are following this story, and who don't read
rec.aviation.military, here is the latest on the Me-262 reconstruction.

            - Dan      <[email-masked]>

---------- Forwarded message ----------

262 FLIES AGAIN - more

Few warbird enthusiasts will fail to agree that the Messerschmitt Me-262
Schwalbe was the world's first truly operational jet fighter. The hard
facts of war forced the Messerschmitt engineers to surpass all their
previous efforts to create a simple, sturdy airframe able to withstand the
rigors of highspeed combat. They did not know they were also blazing the
way for the North American F-86 and the Boeing B-47, both of which used
the Messerschmitt swept-wing experience to dominate the cold war.

Of the total production, only nine airframes are known to exist, all in
museums and none of them even close to being airworthy. The only
production two seat Me 262 known to exist is currently residing with
Classic Fighter Industries and is being used as the reference point for
the reverse engineering effort. This aircraft, based at the Willow Grove
Naval Air Station, sat outside for decades and is terribly corroded.

The aircraft will be fabricated "exactly as it was" during the conflict
with attention to detail including every minor item like
hydraulic-fittings, electrical connections and all mechanical elements.
Concessions have been made only in the interest of safety. The single
major change to the design is in replacing the very early Jumo 004 engines
with two of the most reliable engines ever produced, the General Electric
J-85/CJ610. The Juno 004 did not have the advantage of high temperature
metal alloy construction and was rated only for an average life of twenty
hours or less.

Where are we now? For all five aircraft, we have completed 90% of the wing
rib sets, 50% of the spars, all the cockpit sections including flight
control and instrument consoles. Additionally, two major fuselage
assemblies are now assembled less the nose and tail cone along with many
smaller fabricated parts.

We are very fortunate to have a perfectionist Master Craftsman at the very
top of the elite group of professional aircraft builders
 taking on the project in conjunction with Classic Fighter Industries and
Air Victory Museum. The project has been underway for a year and has a
projected roll-out date in 1996-7.

The aircraft that is being disassembled must also be "put back together"
again for static display. We would be most appreciative for any donations
you might care to give for its restoration. Please make checks payable to
"Air Victory Museum, Inc. - Me 262 restoration" and mail to 5801 Magnolia
Avenue, Pennsauken, NJ 08109, USA. Air Victory Museum is a tax exempt
museum and has been granted 501(3)(c) status. All checks received will be
acknowledged with appropriate receipt for your records.

If you are interested in owning the last Me 262 that is available, be
prepared to sign a contract for $1,450,000. The unit can be constructed in
either single seat or two-place configurations.

We will continue to e-mail status reports on the restoration effort. For
additional information, please refer to Warbirds Worldwide, Journal 29.

Roger Allen
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 10:35:11 CST
From:    "ROBERT ROY(Southern Illinois University)" <[email-masked]>
Subject: <No subject given>

 Sorry to use list for personnel message,but I have  tried 5 times to get
 this to 4ATAF, and it fails every time ??  Hope he sees it. What did I do
 wrong?

SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU unable to deliver following mail to recipient(s):
    <[email-masked]>
SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU received negative reply:
550 (USER) Unknown user name in "[email-masked]"

           ** Text of Mail follows **
Received: from SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU by SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1)
   with BSMTP id 2114; Fri, 01 Jul 94 14:22:41 CST
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 14:22:40 CST
From: [email-masked]
To:   [email-masked]

Subject:info

  SORRY I TOOK SO LONG TO ANSWER, EOY PROCESSING HERE AT SIU, AND I AM THE
STAFF ID MANAGER.  THANKS FOR THE HINT ON FTP BYRD.MU.WVNET.EDU AT MARSHALL
UNIVERSITY,GREAT FILES.  YOUR ID IS 4ATF, DOES THIS HAVE ANY CONNECTION TO
4TH ALLIED TACTICAL AIR FORCE ? I WAS STATIONED AT RAMSTEIN AB IN 1973-75
WITH USAFE DATA PROCESSING,7102 CSS,AND WE SUPPORTED THE 4ATAF. GREAT BUNCH OF
GUYS, CANADA,UK,GERMAN, AND US.  THERE WAS A SITE CALLED "THE CAVE" NEAR
PERMASENS, WOULD THAT BE YOUR SITE.  AS IT HAS BEEN ALMOST 20 YEARS THIS
HAS PROBABLY ALL CHANGED. AAFCE AND 4ATAF WHERE BOTH AT RAMSTEIN. I LOVED
DUTY IN GERMANY,TRAVELED EVERYWHERE !!  I DID MOST OF MY SOCILIZING WITH A
GROUP OF CANADIAN NCO'S AT A CLUB CALLED 'CANADA CLUB" NEAR THE GUN CLUB
AT RAMSTEIN, GREAT BUNCH OF GUYS, INTO TRAVEL,HISTORY,ETC.!!  SURE BRINGS
BACK MEMORIES SEEING 4ATAF, ALL GOOD ONES,WHISH I WAS THERE !!

                         BOB ROY(EX-USAF)
                         [email-masked]
                         SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY
                         CARBONDALE, ILL.  62901

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 12:45:00 EDT
From:    mc killop <[email-masked]>
Subject: Parachutes

I was watching a TV show last night that showed film of German paratroopers
jumping from Ju 52/3m aircraft.  One of the things that I noticed was that
the parachutes did not seem to have shroud lines to allow the paratrooper
to "steer" himself, i.e., the paratrooper seemed to hang at an angle from
the chute.  Was this true and if so, why?

-------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jack McKillop              |  Those who have long enjoyed such |
|  Bellcore                   |  privileges as we enjoy forget in |
|  Piscataway, NJ USA         |  time that men have died to win   |
|  [email-masked]  |  them.                     FDR    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 13:10:09 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 13-JUL-1944

On 13-JUL-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The US VIII Corps continues pushing south. In the VII Corps
     sector the 9th Division makes headway, while the rest of the line is held
     up by German resistance. The XIX Corps continues its struggle for St Lo.
     In the V Corps sector, the 5th Division replaces the 1st Division on the
     line. The 1st Division moves over to the VII Corps sector. The 4th
     Armoured Division lands at Normandy.

Eastern Front - The 3rd Belorussian Front captures Vilna, the capital of
     Lithuania after fierce street fighting. The German Army Group North is in
     still greater danger of being cut off completely.

Italian Front - The US 34th Division of the IV Corps pushes three miles
     towards Leghorn. The 4th Moutain Division of the French Expeditionary
     Corps captures San Gimignano. The 2nd Moroccan Division moves close to
     Poggibonsi. The New Zealand 2nd Division captures Monte Castiglione
     Maggiore.

New Guinea - On Numfoor Island, the US parachutists make contact with the main
     Japanese force northeast of Namber airfield. In the Aitape sector on the
     mainland, the Americans counter-attack and succeed in reaching the
     Driniumor river at two points.

Naval Dispatches
----------------
US submarine HERRING (SS-133) sunk, Pacific Ocean area.

The Homefront
-------------
Windsors In US - The Duke and Duchess of Windsor has arrived in Miami, Florida
     from the Bahamas. They subsequently fly to New York city.

Band Leader Arrested As Draft Dodger - Band leader, Teddy Powell has been
     arrested in Detroit as a draft dodger. He is charged with sending a case
     of whiskey and a hat to a New York draft board official who later
     approved a deferment for him. [Editor's note - I wonder what they did
     with the official who took the "bribe"? Must have been a mighty nice
     hat.]

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 12:20:27 CDT
From:    Tim not Timothy Scherrer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Parachutes

The German Fallschirmjager parachute harness was a real problem.  All
the shroud lines went to one point above the trooper, and they were
connected to the body harness via some straps.  Basically it left the
paratrooper without any real control over the chute.  The wierd angle it
hung the trooper was a problem.  Unlike other countries methods and
equipments, which allowed the troop to do what is called in the US Army
a PLF--parachute landing fall--on the side of the body with a roll--they
basically went leg, knee, elbow, head when they landed.  This is why
German paratroopers wore elbow and knee pads.  If anyone ever meets a
German Fallschirmjager who jumped shake his hand, for he is a braver and
luckier man than you.  TAS

************************************************************************
*  Tim A. Scherrer          "You'll be fighting WWII for the rest of   *
*  Facilities Supervisor     your life", Ron Scherrer, 1971            *
*  WP:816-785-5253                                                     *
*  HP:816-665-6704                                                     *
*  ID# [email-masked]                             *
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 10:28:46 PDT
From:    Alan Hepburn <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Parachutes

Jack McKillop asks:

"I was watching a TV show last night that showed film of German paratroopers
jumping from Ju 52/3m aircraft.  One of the things that I noticed was that
the parachutes did not seem to have shroud lines to allow the paratrooper
to "steer" himself, i.e., the paratrooper seemed to hang at an angle from
the chute.  Was this true and if so, why?"

The German paratrooper wore a harness that had the risers connected
at a point on the small of the back.  They were trained to land on
their knees, and subsequently spent a lot of time looking for a real soft
spot to land on!

I've got a book at home about the history of airborne troops that explains
this, but unfortunately I can't recall the name, or the authour's name
right now.

---

Alan Hepburn             |"That men do not learn very much from the lessons
National Semiconductor   | of history is the most  important of all lessons
Santa Clara, Ca          |that history has to teach."
[email-masked]     |                                 -- Aldous Huxley

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 13:51:34 -0400
From:    Ron Babuka <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Parachutes

>I was watching a TV show last night that showed film of German paratroopers
>jumping from Ju 52/3m aircraft.  One of the things that I noticed was that
>the parachutes did not seem to have shroud lines to allow the paratrooper
>to "steer" himself, i.e., the paratrooper seemed to hang at an angle from
>the chute.  Was this true and if so, why?
>
>From the pictures that I have seen the paratrooper hangs from one shroud
that seems to attach to a harness on the back.  From stories that I have
heard this lead to poor directional control and moor injuries than allied
para units.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Babuka                                         National Warplane Museum
Cornell University                                 Geneseo, New York
CIT - Information Resources
Ithaca, New York 14850
(607) 254-6492

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 14:18:01 -0500
From:    Doc Benway <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Parachutes

This discussion on parachutes is interesting, and I was wondering what
alternative fibers the Germans used for 'chutes later in the war. The
Americans, cut off from the silk outlets in Asia, turned to hemp for
making their parachutes. (It's ironic that Mr. Drug War Bush's life was
saved by a hemp parachute)

Did the Germans employ the same alternative source of fiber?

Jon Sanders
University of Missouri

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 16:31:11 -0500
From:    GEORGE BAUER <[email-masked]>
Subject: B-25 H model

Does anybody know anything about an H model B-25 in the Chicago area?

A Name, location, and phone number would be much appreciated.

  =========================================================================
  | DR.  GEORGE R. BAUER             | INTERESTS:                         |
  |                                  | Computers in Business & Education. |
  | Recently returned from my second | Education:  Curriculum development.|
  |   extended stay in Prague.       |    International Education, TEFL.  |
  | Working on second book about     | Central Europe:  Post revolution   |
  |   Prague and new Czech Republic  |    economic, social, political     |
  |   and a book about the B-25      |    problems and opportunities.     |
  |   in WWII.                       | B-25 in WWII.                      |
  | E-Mail:                          | Free lance writing and editing.    |
  |   USA:  [email-masked]    | Stamp collecting.                  |
  =========================================================================

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 19:59:50 -0500
From:    "Danny G. Cox" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Bomb Transportation

How were the bombs transfered to the Enola Gay?
Were they transported on a destroyer? The Jefferson City?
If so, was the Jefferson City sunk by Japanese submarines shortly
afterwards?

+==================================+
|   DAN COX                        |
|   REPUBLIC, MO                   |
|   [email-masked]   |
+==================================+

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jul 1994 18:38:05 -0700
From:    Ed Kettler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Bomb Transportation

Dan,

The ship which carried the bomb for the Enola Gay was the USS
Indianapolis which was sunk between Saipan and the Philipines with great
loss of life by a Japanese sub.  Most of the casualties were due to
drowning and exposure during the several days in the rafts before
rescue.  There are several books on this sinking.  According to J.
Rohwer's Chronology of the War at Sea 1939-1945, I-58 (Captain Hashimoto)
sank Indianapolis on the night of 29-30 July 1945 with two hits from a
spread of 6 torpedoes E of Luzon.  316 of 1199 rescued between 2 and 8 Aug.

Ed Kettler                                       [email-masked]

On Wed, 13 Jul 1994, Danny G. Cox wrote:

> How were the bombs transfered to the Enola Gay?
> Were they transported on a destroyer? The Jefferson City?
> If so, was the Jefferson City sunk by Japanese submarines shortly
> afterwards?
>
> +==================================+
> |   DAN COX                        |
> |   REPUBLIC, MO                   |
> |   [email-masked]   |
> +==================================+
>

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 12 Jul 1994 to 13 Jul 1994
*************************************************