Subject: WWII-L Digest - 7 Jul 1994 to 8 Jul 1994

From: Automatic digest processor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 00:00:53 -0400

There are 8 messages totalling 533 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. INF: USN Chronology 07-08-94
  2. GEN: RESPONSE TIME FOR MAIL
  3. INF: 50 Years Ago - 08-JUL-1944
  4. ADMIN: Introduction to WWII-L
  5. TRV - USN Chronology 07-08-94
  6. HIST (request)
  7. HELP!!
  8. Dining out at the Smithsonian

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 01:24:18 PST
From:    "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: USN Chronology 07-08-94

UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
from:
//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt

1944
07/08 Sat. Cruiser and destroyer task  group (Rear Adm. C. T. Joy) com-
           mences daily bombardment of enemy defenses on Guam,
           Marianas Islands; battleships join the bombardment group
           beginning 14 July.

Theron P. Keller
Logicon, Inc.
Dahlgren, VA  22448 USA
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 14:22:09 +0200
From:    John Ausland <[email-masked]>
Subject: GEN: RESPONSE TIME FOR MAIL

  FOR RICHARD KAPLAN

  Oslo, July 8, 1994

  You asked about response time to letters from home.

  I do not know about letters from Italy but can give you a bit of information
about letters from France.  I checked my book LETTERS HOME and found a letter to
my father dated July 31, 1944, in response to a letter dated July 14. I was at
that time artillery liaison officer to an infantry battalion, and this letter
would have been written a week after Operation Cobra and our breakout from the
bridgehead.

  Also one dated March 23, 1945 to my father, which was in response to one from
him dated March 10.  I was at that time in charge of an artillery battalion fire
direction center.  We were at that time in a rest area in France, after a fight
in Germany which carried us almost to the Rhine.

  Regards, John Ausland/Oslo Norway

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 07:47:28 -0500
From:    John Davis <[email-masked]>
Subject: INF: 50 Years Ago - 08-JUL-1944

On 08-JUL-1944, the following occurred -

World War II - The Battlefronts
-------------------------------
Western Front - The US 78th Division of the VIII Corps overruns La
     Haye-du-Puits. The VII Corps continues to advance, with great difficulty,
     along the Carentan-Periers road. The XIX Corps, reinforced by newly
     landed 35th Division, is advancing on St Lo. The 8th Division, also newly
     landed, goes into the line between the 79th and 90th Divisions. In the
     British sector, the British I Corps launches its offensive against Caen.
     The attack is being carried on by the 49th and 3rd Divisions and the
     Canadian 3rd Division.

Eastern Front - The 1st Belorussian Front captures Baranovichi, north-east of
     Brest-Litovsk.

Italian Front - After the capture of Rosignano, the US 34th Division of the IV
     Corps speeds up their advance on Leghorn. Volterra is occupied by the
     88th Division. Units of the French Expeditionary Corps are attacking
     towards San Gimignano, west of Poggibonsi, and capture Hill 380, two
     miles north of Highway 68.

Marianas - On Saipan, the Americans advance towards the north of the island.

Guam - A squadron of US carriers and destroyers under the command of RADM C.T.
     Joy begin a series of daily bombardments of Guam.

Burma/China - Five Chinese divisions surround Teng-chung on the Salween river
     front.

China - Chiang Kai-shek has agreed in principle with President Roosevelt's
     request that General Stilwell be given operational control over the
     Chinese army.

The Homefront
-------------
Roosevelt-de Gaulle Talks End - General Charles de Gaulle has held his third
     and final talk with President Roosevelt, but neither will disclose the
     results of these talks. Sources report however that the French are highly
     gratified by the results of the conference.

Navy Half Way To Landing Craft Goal - The Navy says 48,267 landing craft
     aggregating 1,624,162 tons have already been produced in a program
     calling for 100,000 craft.

=============================================================================

Sources: "2194 Days of War" by Cesare Salmaggi and Alfredo Pallavisimi, "The
World Almanac Book Of WW II" by Peter Young, "United States Naval Chronology,
World War II" by Naval Historical Division - United States Navy, "Facts On
File Yearbook 1944, Person's Index Of World Events" edited by R.L. Lapica.

----------
John Davis  [email-masked]
Cary, N.C.
----------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 09:26:05 -0400
From:    Barone <[email-masked]>
Subject: ADMIN: Introduction to WWII-L

Last Revision: 16 May 1994
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Welcome to WWII-L, a list dedicated to the discussion of the greatest
cataclysm of the Twentieth century (and, hopefully, the last.)  I am Joe
Barone and I'll be listowner until further notice.  I can be reached at
[email-masked].

        WWII-L will be self-moderated.  This means that each of you will
always try to remember that there is a human being on the other end of the
wire, and the "Golden Rule" is rule number one!

        Our subject is HUGE and not everyone will be interested in everything
that moves over the list.  To ease YOUR burden of sorting the items you wish
to read, I offer the following "flags".  They will go FIRST on the Subject:
line.  (This section will be enforced when traffic gets heavy, otherwise
members may use their discretion on the matter.)

EDU   For discussion of aspects of teaching about the war.
SCI   For discussion of science and technology; may overlap with WEAP.
WEAP  For talk of weapons, usage of weapons, and "My favorite weapon."
POL   Political discussions, such as the effects of the Yalta Conference.
TAC   Tactical and Strategic discussions, "Island hopping vs. Single axis"
REF   References, review, where-to-buy, etc.
INF   Tables of Organization, raw data, chronologies, etc.
DOC   Reproductions of documents, Declarations of War, Speeches, Treaties, etc.
GEN   "Let's find a category for this."
TRV   For you trivia buffs. Try to stump everyone.
VET   For reunions, VA announcements, Legislation affecting veterans.
HOME  For discussions of events on the "Homefront".  To help distinguish
      WHICH homefront we're talking about, use the following format:
      HOME:US for the U.S.A.,
      HOME:GER for Germany, and so forth.
NOST  For nostalgia items, such as trips to battle sites, historical
      recreations, museum information, where to buy badges and hats, etc.
ADMIN For listowner use, to post introduction and related material.
      Responses to these articles are welcome, but only listowner
      should originate an "ADMIN" article.
WANT  For trading, suggestion on stores worth visting, etc.  Please offer to
      send more information via e-mail rather than posting an entire inventory.
MEDIA To review and report TV and other media "events".
NEWS  For reproductions of newspaper, magazine, and other articles from the
      period under discussion.  Present day news items should be post under
      "MEDIA".
ARC   For discussion of on-line resources and materials, such as those avail-
      able via ftp or gopher.  Discussion of the WWII-OLA (On-Line Archives
      should be posted under this flag.)
TROUBLE  Error messages from a site or address. Last chance to contact me
      before I'm forced to delete you! Anyone who knows the member in question
      is urged to contact them and have the problem corrected.

        Some items will overlap, of course, but the main thrust of the item
should be clear.  Try not to ask so many questions in a single post that the
flags become inoperative.  Several short posts are preferable to one long one,
and are easier to answer and quote.  You should change the flag in the subject
line if the thread takes a new direction.  If you reply to a posting which
didn't have a flag, please insert the proper flag.  (This can help categorize
the subject for people who have to download the mail via slow modem, one of
the main reasons for having the flags at all.)

        Threads have been known to mutate so that the Subject: line no longer
gives any indication of the content of the message.  I ask that you check
the Subject: line when replying to a message and change it to something
more appropriate if this is the case.

Since messages may arrive at sites out of order, it's always a good
idea to quote portions of a previous message that you are responding to.
This does not mean that the entire message with headers should be included,
but those lines that are relevant.  It helps if proper attribution (who
said the quoted material) is given.  Also, try to avoid quoting large
tracts of text and simply adding a "Me too!" line without adding
additional information.  A good rule of thumb is not to have more quoted
text than new material.  Of course, content is always more important than
style so these suggestions may not apply.

        Abbreviations are another subject that needs attention.  While many
of us will be comfortable with the most arcane and obscure acronyms and
abbreviations, many of the readers of this list are here to learn more about
the war and will have trouble decyphering your articles if they are packed
with "LAH", "CinCUS", "StuG III", etc.  PLEASE expand these terms at least
once in your post.

        Similarly, since this list is primarily in English, could we please
translate the "foreign" terms?  A long discussion on "Kido Butai" or
"Wacht-am-Rhine" without an explantion of the terms isn't polite if we
exclude part of the list because they have no clue as to the meaning of
the terms.  The converse should also be remembered: English is not the
primary language of many members of the list.  Usenet short-hand should
also be expanded once to avoid redundant traffic explaining what such
abbreviations as BTW mean ("by the way").

        Now we come to the REALLY hard part.

        Some subjects have been beaten to death or evoke strong emotional
responses.  However, I realize that they'll come up from time to time.
If you feel that the following topics must be addressed, ensure that your
wording is precise; consider the responses that it might evoke; and use
the topics flag.  It is not my duty to censor any pertinent topic from this
list, but these topics should be handled carefully.  Failure to do so may
result in "flame wars" which will *not* be tolerated on this list.  The
mailing list suffered through one flame war pertaining to the second topic
below.  It nearly killed the list so I am loath to see if the list can
tolerate another.  Also, in regards to the Holocaust, there is another
mailing-list, HOLOCAUS-L, devoted to the topic so readers should subscribe
to that list for a more thorough discussion of that topic.  The current
list of topics are:

        1. The Holocaust.
        2. Internment of Japanese-Americans in the US.

        Also, while conspiracy theories were all the rage during in the 1970s
and 1980s, they're rather passe now.  Their novelty is gone and there is little
or no evidence to support them.  Occam's razor applies here: don't attribute
to malice the results of ignorance.  Accordingly, the following topics are
discouraged:

        1. Did Roosevelt know about the coming attack on Pearl Harbor and
           intentionally do nothing in order to drag the US into the war?
        2. Did Churchill allow the bombing of Conventry to occur in order
           to protect the secret of Ultra?

        While on the topic of touchy topics and flame wars, there are a
few individuals in the world who delight in posting the most assinine
assertions for the sole purpose of enraging the more serious members of a
group.  These people seem to derive pleasure seeing how much traffic they
can generate.  A subset of this group may actually believe the preposterous
things that they are claiming.  Regardless of such an individual's
motivation, though, if a message angers you, I ask that you not respond
immediately, if at all.  First, you would probably be playing right into
their hands and, secondly, nearly every other sensible person will have
the same response as your own.  I try to stay on top of this list in order
to prevent such flame wars, but propogation delays make it impossible for
me to react instantaneously.  Hopefully, I'll have the wisdom to discern
"flamebait" from an actual desire to debate an unpopular theory.

        One last item, STATE YOUR REFERENCES!  You're in tough company here.
Some of the folks in this list are VERY sharp, and you'll end up with egg on
your face if you haven't done your homework.

        Normally the listserv will want you to subscribe from your own account
rather than having me add you to the list.  This allows the software to confirm
mailing routes as I don't always get your full address in the mail.

        Contact me if listserv gives you any problems and we'll seek a solution.

SUBSCRIPTION INFOMATION:

ALL Messages are to go to:

[email-masked] (internet)
listserv@ubvm                (bitnet)

Send the following commands  in the body of the message.

To SUBSCRIBE:
subscribe wwii-l (your name)

To UNSUBSCRIBE:
unsubscribe wwii-l

To turn mail off for a period without unsubscribing:
set wwii-l nomail

To turn mail back on when ready:
set wwii-l mail

To Digest (have all postings sent in one mailing per day):
set wwii-l digest

To restore normal mail (undigest the list.)
set wwii-l mail

To confirm that your posting has been sent to the list:
set wwii-l ack

To get a copy of your posting sent to you:
set wwii-l repro

(Ack will send you a note saying "your file has been succesfully distributed,
and repro will send a copy back to you of your posting..

To retrieve logfiles for WWII-L send mail to [email-masked] or
                                             listserv@ubvm (for bitnet)
with this message in the body:
get wwii-l log9207c

This file will contain all the postings sent to the list in the third week
of July.

The files are held for two months and broken down by seven day periods (which
usually don't coincide with the calendar "week".  Thus you might see this
kind of entry

WWII-L LOG9207A  (for 01-07 July, 1992)
WWII-L LOG9207B  (for 08-14 July, 1992)
WWII-L LOG9207C  (for 15-21 July, 1992)

You can also get the files by ftp if you have access.  FTP into
ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu and cd to WWII-L.  The files are in ascii format
and the machine is case sensitive.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a tip on getting older messages from the listserver:

Date:         Wed, 16 Sep 1992 18:06:11 CDT
From: DONALD NEWCOMB <[email-masked]>
Subject:      Getting back articles and the database

  One of the "niftiest" features of the listserver is the database
search. This allows the user to search for any subject and print
either an index of the "hits" or the articles themselves. For
instance if you mail the command sequence below to "[email-masked]"
or "[email-masked]" it will send you an index of all
articles in the archive that deal with weapons (the WEAP: tag).
_
//Job
Database Search DD=Rules
//Rules DD *
sel * in wwii-l where subject contains ("weap:")
index
/*
_
If you change the word "index" to "print" it will return you a copy
of the articles themselves. I think you can start with the listserv
"help" command and find a complete set of instructions  for using the
database. The complete instructions are very complex and should only
be tackled by someone with experience with data searching experience.

Donald R. Newcomb - Univ. of Southern Mississippi - Gulf Park
   <[email-masked]>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I haven't suffciently confused you, send me e-mail and I'll finish
the job. :-)  I can be reached at the following address:

Joe Barone, WWII-L Listowner
[email-masked]
W: (401) 842-4054
Always wit' da negative waves, Moriarty!  Always wit' da negative waves!

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 08:27:03 -0700
From:    "Office TH325, Extension 3566" <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRV - USN Chronology 07-08-94

>From:         "Keller, Theron P." <[email-masked]>
>Subject:      INF: USN Chronology 07-08-94
>
>UNITED STATES NAVY CHRONOLOGY
>from:
>//byrd.mu.wvnet.edu/pub/history/military/wwii/naval_chronology/chr4(4,5).txt
>
>1944
>07/08 Sat. Cruiser and destroyer task  group (Rear Adm. C. T. Joy) com-
>           mences daily bombardment of enemy defenses on Guam,
>           Marianas Islands; battleships join the bombardment group
>           beginning 14 July.
>

Is Adm. C. T. Joy, Admiral Charles Turner Joy?  Most people will remember
destroyer USS Turner Joy (DD 951) named for him from the Gulf of Tonkin
and the Vietnam war.  Turner Joy is now anchored in Bremerton and is
open to the public.  This is only about 12 miles from my home and I've
done the tour.

BTW, thanks for these chronology postings.

John Riegsecker
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Puget Sound

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 11:22:43 -0400
From:    Warren Thompson <[email-masked]>
Subject: HIST (request)

From:   ACAD::THOMPSON      8-JUL-1994 11:16:18.51
To:     SMTP%"[email-masked]"
CC:     THOMPSON
Subj:   Request for information

Colleagues out there: Need accurate (and citable) information on why there was
some US sentiment against executing Karl Brandt, Reichs Commissioner for
Health and Sanitation, after his conviction in the "Doctors' Trial" at
Nuremberg, 1946-47 (he was in fact hanged at Landsberg prison in summer,1948)>

-- Warren Thompson

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 16:49:48 -0500
From:    Mike Yaklich <[email-masked]>
Subject: HELP!!

I am interested in all things Italian during WW2, but am especially seeking
sources on the following... is there anyone out there who can suggest where
to start looking?
        1. any further info on the Italian marines (San Marco Regiment)
               Joe Barone's post on the proposed Malta operation in
                '42 was exactly the type of stuff I'm looking for,
                a comprehensive work on Italian marine ops would be
                very helpful, or individual articles on any other ops
                they participated in...
        2. biographical details of Italian fighter aces, most especially
                Sgt Teresio Martinoli and Lt-Col Duilio Fanali...
                refs in the Squadron/Signal books on the Regia
                Aeronautica were very spotty, I'd like to find where
                they got their info...Giuseppe Santoro's book on the
                RA didn't go into any real detail about the exploits
                of individuals (although there was one anecdote about
                Capt Mario Visentini)...info on any Italian aces beyond
                what was in the Squadron/Signal books would be welcome...
        3. anything good on operations of alpini mountain units in
                Russia 1942-43 (works in Italian are no problem
                providing I can get my hands on it-- I struggle too
                much for Russian sources to be much good if in the
                original language)... also any general history on
                the alpini in WW2
        4. the names of the commanding officers of Italian subs,
                especially the Da Vinci, which I think had the
                highest tonnage of enemy ships sunk... in fact,
                anything dealing with individual Italian sub ops...

I realize some of this may be obscure, but that is why I'm asking...
the level of knowledge on this list seems to be pretty high... I'll
be grateful to do the footwork,  including struggling through texts
in Italian, and have access to a good interlibrary loan program...
so if someone out there can help I'll be ecstatic and/or owe you a
big favor....

        Thanks in advance

        Mike Yaklich (Pitt U.)

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 8 Jul 1994 19:12:47 -0400
From:    Dan Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Dining out at the Smithsonian

While it is a stretch to call this WWII, here is a hilarious followup to
the Enola Gay excitement.

            - Dan      <[email-masked]>

REVIEW & OUTLOOK (Editorial): Understanding Cannibalism
Source: WJ      Date: Jul 08, 1994              Time: 02:02 am

  Americans who want to keep themselves positioned on the leading edge of
multicultural wisdom have a rich opportunity coming up this weekend on TV
in this Sunday's Smithsonian Expedition Special titled "Treehouse People,
Cannibal Justice" (8-9 p.m, Eastern, Arts & Entertainment). The
Smithsonian, for most Americans a name synonymous with the nation's legacy
of achievement, has recently come under the control of thinkers
preoccupied with alternative interpretations of society and history.
  (snip)
  This Sunday's Smithsonian effort, "Treehouse People, Cannibal Justice,"
strives for what might also be called a "reinterpretation" of Western
notions of human sacrifice and other such native customs. On this
informative trip to the home of the Korowai tribe in New Guinea, our guide
is Dr. Paul Taylor, a curator of the Smithsonian's National Museum of
Natural History -- and a more enthusiastic one is hard to imagine.
  The Korowai, we learn, build treehouses that can rise as high as a
six-story building -- which Dr. Taylor describes as "a major architectural
achievement for anyplace in the world." The Korowai are also credited with
paying women equally for supportive help in building, which, Dr. Taylor
happily informs us, "feminists in any country in the world would very much
agree with."
  Though Dr. Taylor fails to mention it, matters of course get somewhat
more ticklish in the equal righ. ts department when it comes to other
features of Korowai life -- notably who gets killed and eaten.
  It appears that the Korowai practice what Dr. Taylor delicately
describes as "the custom" of cannibalism. According to the tribe's
practice of this custom, men are punished for important crimes such as
casting spells and causing deaths, whereas women are killed and eaten for
crimes like stealing bananas or other crops.
  Still, whoever is to be eaten, the method of preparation is the same:
The victim is first tied by the elbows, then brought to a river, encircled
and pierced by tribesmen shooting arrows. The body is carefully cut up
into six pieces -- while those appointed to do the cutting have, we
further learn, "a good time and sing" while they work. When the body is
cooked and eaten down by the riverside, there is, we are assured, nothing
left over; everything is eaten.
  Many things about these people, Dr. Taylor warns, may seem baffling
"until they are seen from within the culture -- like cannibalism." Indeed,
Dr. Taylor explains, cannibalism is not mere violence, it is for the
Korowai a "well-functioning example of how a complete criminal justice
system works." It's hard to imagine a Smithsonian film taking the same
view of, say, the Singapore government's caning of lawbreakers, which
recently provoked so much outraged editorial opinion. Possibly Singapore
would be better off, at least among advanced American thinkers, eating the
criminals instead.
  In terms of public relations, the Korowai could hardly have done better
than to have the Smithsonian's Dr. Taylor on the job, explaining their
complete criminal justice system. We hope it isn't too niggling to note
that in his large-hearted view of this complete justice system, there is
no mention of anything like a trial before a person is condemned to the
cooking pot. At the film's end, Dr. Taylor informs us in tones of
heartfelt regret that we ourselves are the last generation "who can learn
from people like t. his."
  For our part, we consider that the outstanding lesson we can learn from
the Korowai is that it's a bad idea to be a woman caught stealing their
bananas. As for the Smithsonian itself, we hope someone serious is keeping
an eye on the crown jewels of the nation's history, lest the curators melt
them down in a Korowai pot.

------------------------------

End of WWII-L Digest - 7 Jul 1994 to 8 Jul 1994
***********************************************